#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-11
<sabdfl> Mez: good point
* lilo looks in
<Seveas> welcome lilo
<ogra> mako, lead us !
<mdke> heh
<mako> umm..
<mako> ok
<sabdfl> hey lilo, i'll ping you when we get to your agenda topic
<lilo> sabdfl: thank you!
<mako> silbs, you around?
<silbs> mako: yes
<mako> silbs asked to handle the art team first
<Mez> FTR: I'm Martin Meredith
<mako> which, i think makese sense
* sabdfl is Mark Shuttleworth
<mako> so yes
<mako> everyone should state their name for the record/log
<ogra> OliverGrawert
* \sh is Stephan Hermann
* Seveas aka Dennis Kaarsemaker
<mdke> <-- Matthew East
* Mez is Martin Meredith
* seth_k is Seth Kinast
* smurfix is Matthias Urlichs
* mako is Benjamin Mako Hill
* silbs is Jane Silber
* lamont__ is LaMont Jones
<bddebian> <-- Barry deFreese
<kinjoo> <-- Josh Kress
* nalioth is Marek Spruell
<sabdfl> elmo sends apologies, he is mid-move with no net access
<mako> my suggestion is to do the art team first and then to go back to the new maintainers and the rest in order
* uniq is Frode Doeving
<sabdfl> ok, ArtworkTeam
<mako> right
<mako> silbs: want to give us the few-sentance version?
<Mez> mako: you mean new Members not maintainers right ?
<silbs> there has been interest in having an artwork team. The purpose is outlined on the wiki page ArtTeam
<Seveas> Mez, new maint. is not CC business
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtTeam
<silbs> I took the initiative to suggest some short term goals
<mdke> awesome idea
<silbs> 6-7 members were already signed up, but the team has never had formal approval from the CC
<sabdfl> there's a lot of community interest in artwork generally
<Mez> Seveas, my point exavtly, mako said new Maintainers :D
* mvo is michael vogt (and late)
<Seveas> will the art team save the Ubuntu calendar?
<sabdfl> Seveas: yes!
<Seveas> +1 from me then
<mdke> ;)
<ogra> ++
<silbs> one of the goals (is the team accepts it) should be that the art team makes calendar wallpapers
<mdke> i have one small question
<sabdfl> there are a couple of names already
<sabdfl> andyfitz is working on icons, but needs community direction
<mako> mdke: shoot
<mdke> when the april fool gdm screen happened, i got some complaints from people who were running ubuntu in their business
<Seveas> i'm a (imnsho) relatively good photographer so I would like to join the team for wallpapers
<mako> silbs: andyfitz is not on the list of members.. is that just an oversite?
<mdke> that is artwork related right? does anyone have any views?
<\sh> mdke: u mean with the 3 *sses?
<sabdfl> volvoguy has done quite a bit of work, and is interested in the team
<Seveas> mdke, Hoary was not released back then, businesses should not have used it
<mako> mdke: i think that's a sepereate issue we should maybe addres between now and next april.. but maybe not now
<sabdfl> Seveas: it was accidentally uploaded to warty too
<mdke> mako, fair enough
<silbs> mako: the list was a self-sign up thing.  I didn't add any of those names. I've spoken to Andy, who has already been working on icons. He was psyched about the idea of a team and more input on the icons
* mako nods to silbs 
<mako> ok, that's what i suspected
<mako> i suspect there are some other folks not on that list that would also be interested
<sabdfl> so that we have a point of contact, i'd like to nominate volvoguy as a short-term leader, for six months
<silbs> because Kamion wasn't sure if he coul dmake the mtg, I spoke to him about this earlier.  He was concerned about a leader for the team.
<mako> my main concern with new teams is that i don't want to create unnecessary divisions and buerocracy or empty teams
<mdz> silbs: did you receive a response from volvoguy?
<silbs> the suggestion was that we ask someone to lead for a temp period (say 6 months), and then let the team pick their own leader.
<sabdfl> after six months we can review that, and choose someone based on the feelings of the team as it has emerged over that period
<mako> it sounds like in this team, a team would be a good catalyst and organizational structure for continued work
* smurfix thinks it's a very good idea, and not just because he wants the calendar back ;)
<sabdfl> do we have a mailing list for them?
<Seveas> mako++
<silbs> I asked Aaron Waite (sp?, volvoguy) if he would be willing to lead on a temp basis.  volvoguy has been very active with artwork stuff.
<mdke> i feel sure that the team would attract contributors after being set up, lots of people are interested in artwork
* mako nods to silbs 
<silbs> sabdfl: we have a list ready to go - not announced yet. Was waiting for CC approval
<mako> sabdfl: what was kamion concerned about?
<Seveas> I like the docteam approach for handling contributions: a few people with repository access and a mailing list for contributions
<mako> is there a reason we would not want to start with a team secretary/contact ala locoteams instead and then let the team decide over a few months what they want/need?
<\sh> actually, artwork needs to be approved by tb or cc because it concerns the whole distri *mypoint*
<Seveas> Maybe the artwork team should use that too
<silbs> mako: Kamion was concerned about having a leader/contact person/coordinator/secretary
<mdke> mako, cool idea
<mdke> Seveas, cool idea too
<Seveas> mako++ (again :))
<mako> \sh: quite honestly, i don't have an interest in approving all artwork?
<\sh> mako: no...but the way to go
<mako> silbs: i'd like one too, but we've been burned by this before.. i'd prefer the contact/secretary (which we need) and then we let the team decide if they need/want more
<Seveas> mako, I think that the artteam should do that
<\sh> it's a window to the world, how we're presenting ubuntu to the world
<Seveas> and that the CC should approve only the final artwork per release
<mako> \sh: i think we should trust teh team to do the work and then get involved when there is problem
<mdz> mako: so you support the creation of an official team?
<silbs> so I don't have an answer from volveguy yet, but I propose that if he is willing then he start with that coordinator/secretary/whatever role (on a temp basis, till team gets rolling)
<\sh> mako: i would ++ Seveas point ...
<mako> mdz: yes
<mako> mdz: absolutely
<Seveas> Creative minds work better when combined
<sabdfl> agreed that it should be a temp appointment, and subject to review at six months or sooner if it doesn't work
<ogra> mako, but thats what you look at the next six months.... i would like to see that it is accepted by a broad majority of our users before release
<sabdfl> but volvoguys has been committed and active
<mdz> artwork is an area which needs some initiative; the creation of a team would help to organize the ambition which is already forming in the community
<ogra> ++ for volovoguy
<mako> ogra: yes, getting things out there for preview *is* important
<ogra> mdz, but agreement form the community should still be required...
<\sh> ok...++ for team + artwork + after 6 months a majority vote on the work
<Seveas> 3 months this time, artwork deadline is end of september...
<Seveas> 6 months was for leader appointment
<ogra> Seveas, it should be public some time before 
<mako> sabdfl: so, there's consensus to form the team
<sabdfl> ok, so there are three proposals in front of the cc
<mako> sabdfl: thanks.. i'm trying to sort out what we're deciding here
<\sh> silbs: can u prepare a fitting artwork (icons etc.) for gnome+kde?
<sabdfl> let's hear from everyone, +1 or -1 or 0 on each oh these:
<sabdfl>  - setting up an artwork team, and asking volvoguy to coordinate for the first six months
* mako nods
<Seveas> +1
<\sh> +1
<ogra> +1
<bddebian> +1 If I get a vote yet. :-)
<kinjoo> +1
<smurfix> +1
<mako> +1
<mdke> +1
<mvo> +1
<silbs> +1
<sabdfl> er...
<sabdfl> that should do it then, kamion was +1 too
<Mez> +1
<Mez> ;)
<mako> i'd prefer that we stayed away from "leading" but, it's mostly semantic.. i think there's an important responsiblity to be filled and i think he's the guy to do it
<mako> :)
<ogra> SPOC !
<mdke> mako, :)
<Mez> mako - thats why he said coordinate not lead :D
<sabdfl> ok - thanks guys
<ogra> (single point of contact !)
<sabdfl> next!
<silbs> if volvoguy doesn't have time or can't for some reason, is there anyone here who would like that coordinator role?
<mako> Mez: liike i said, it's semantic
<Mez> ;)P
<\sh> silbs: u? ,-)
<Seveas> silbs, Andy Fitzsimon perhaps?
<ogra> silbs, i'm available for packaging
<silbs> \sh: nope, not me.  No artistic talent at all :)
<sabdfl> ogra: could you add yourself as the technical contact for artwork packaging?
<\sh> silbs: coordinating != painting ;)
<ogra> sabdfl, sure :)
<mako> i'd like to lurk/follow the team as well
<mako> looking at pretty pictures > reading more emails
<\sh> mako: hahaha
<mdke> heh
<mako> sabdfl: you said there were three issues
<\sh> mako: i have a lot ;) 
<sabdfl> mako: i could send you the raw files for the original calendar?
<mako> sabdfl: but your breakdown isn't the same as mine apparently.. was was 2/3
<nalioth> would think there'd a list to lurk 
<mako> sabdfl: DUDE, you have those?!
<mako> sabdfl: mako@ubuntu.com
<sabdfl> mako: that's because i can't count
<mako> sabdfl: ok, so we've done three already?
* Seveas rofl @ mako
<sabdfl> mako: yes, and yes ;-)
<mako> awesome
<sabdfl> so, next?
* \sh grabs a new beer
<mako> silbs: alright, you win
<silbs> mako: thanks :)
<mako> silbs: what do you need from us? an announcement?
<mako> silbs: you have the list, etc.. anything else?
<sabdfl> mako: can we add UbuntuSpatial to the agenda, please?
<mdz> mako: the mailing list already exists; it needs CC endorsement ;-)
<mdz> sabdfl++
<sabdfl> mdz: that's done
<ogra> sabdfl, UbuntuSpatial ? 
<mako> sabdfl: for this meeting?
<silbs> mako: the list (ubuntu-art) is ready. proposed goals are on the wiki.  Would like to talk to volvoguy, then we just need an announcement. I can coordinate that with you tomorrow
* mako gets another beer
<Mez> can someone poke me when member candidates come up?
<sabdfl> the opportunity for me to prostrate myself before the wizards of Gnome and ask forgiveness for that particular error
<\sh> ogra: raeumlich :)
<mdke> Mez, yes
<Seveas> Mez, ack
<\sh> ogra: regional :)
<mako> sabdfl: ok
* mako puts the beer back
<ogra> \sh, yes...
* mdke looks around for wizards
<mako> silbs: sounds perfect
<sabdfl> mako: i've already had mine for the evening :-)
<mdz> mdke: yes?
<mdke> haha
<sabdfl> ok, member candidates?
<mako> silbs: i am giving two talks tomorrow but should be around enough to coordinate
<mako> sabdfl: yes
<mdke> Mez, poke
<mako> ok.. not everyone was here
* \sh had 6 but anyways...member business
<sabdfl> pvaneynd?
<mako> PeterVanEynde ?
<mako> not this week?
<tseng> i mailed him
<Mez> hehe :D
<mako> JeanRemyFalleri ?
<tseng> about being more visible in MOTU
* ogra hast seen him since he opened hs lisp team
<tseng> no luck.
<mako> tseng, ogra: next time :)
<ogra> yep
<sabdfl> JRe?
<mako> more luck with Jean Remy ?
<ogra> sad he's missing.. kubuntu would be happy
<mako> who was here last time IIRC
<mako> ogra: kubuntu can be happy next time
<Mez> didnt JRe get passed last week ?
<\sh> yeah..jre is a nice add
<Seveas> wasn't he approved..?
<ogra> hmm....
<Mez> he was approved last time with me
<ogra> yep...
<mako> i think we asked to come back in two weeks
* mako boggles
<Seveas> hmm
<Mez> nope Mako - you approved him
* Seveas does a quick vgrep on logs
<Mez> same as me :D
<tseng> he did the packaging guide
<ogra> mako, hmm, i think Mez is right...
* mako looks and realizes you are right
<mako> yes, yes, i have it on my list
* Kamion arrives belatedly
<\sh> jre is member 
<Seveas> welcome Kamion 
<Mez> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers/+members
<mdke> hi Kamion :)
<Mez> he's in approved on there mako
<\sh> he wasn't motu 
<sabdfl> hey Kamion! grab a beer
<ogra> or a coffee :=
<\sh> he isn't motu better to say
<ogra> :)
<mako> well, no CoC yet, but he's approved
<mdz> Kamion: good evening
<mako> someone tell the man to send me a signed CoC
<Kamion> a lemsip in my case
<\sh> mako: i will poke him and advise him
<mako> alright, lets move on
<mdke> but he's in the member group in launchpad
<mako> kinjoo: DUDE
<kinjoo> I#m here
<mako> so, here's the deal
<mako> you should give us a few sentances of what you've done for ubuntu
<Mez> being in the member group doesnt mean member - just approved
<mako> and then a sentance or so about hwere you want to see the project go
<kinjoo> OK!
<mako> and what you want to do to take it there
<mdke> Mez, ok... not that logical tho ;)
<kinjoo> Well, I think the most important I've done so far:
<kinjoo> Promoting Ubuntu at my dorm
<kinjoo> and at LinuxTag
<kinjoo> which rocked!
<mdke> awesome
<Mez> mdke: I think the approved bit = added as approved memebr and when you sign a CoC you get karma added on launchpad
<\sh> nice..next year I will visit the linuxtag ;) 
<Kamion>  /whois kinjoo
<kinjoo> I've talked to a lot of University members
<mdz> Kamion: ;-)
<Kamion> JoshKress?
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoshKress
<Kamion> mdz: (intentional)
<Seveas> yes Kamion 
<\sh> yes
<ogra> Kamion, 
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoshKress
<kinjoo> They'd be happy to help spread ubuntu
<ogra> grmpf
<kinjoo> Kamion: yes
<Seveas> kinjoo, do you cooperate with ubuntuusers.de?
<\sh> kinjoo: u mentioned on your wiki page: "Writing a book about ubuntu"
<mako> kinjoo did *serious* work to make ubuntu at linuxtag a success
<mako> he was also at mataro
<kinjoo> The future: Ubuntu should rule the world ;-)
<ogra> mako, yes, he snores :)
<\sh> kinjoo: u mean o'reilly germany, in cologne?
<mdke> there was a book published in german, was that yours kinjoo ?
<kinjoo> yes I had a long phone call this morning
<\sh> kinjoo: u will write, or u wrote?
<ogra> mdke, you mean the book from kofler ? 
<kinjoo> mdke: no this was Kofler's
<\sh> ah...
<mdke> ah right
<kinjoo> I write a new one
<\sh> so especially ubuntu is covered?
<kinjoo> wil be GNU FDL
<mako> kinjoo: :)
<mdke> coo
<mdke> l
<\sh> kinjoo++ :)
<kinjoo> to include it to Ubuntu
* Seveas thinks: become a member when the book is done :)
<mako> kinjoo has done great work promoting ubuntu and playing a major leadership role in the german ubuntu loco presence
<\sh> kinjoo: can u get in contact with sebastian for php includes for ubuntu? ,-)
<sabdfl> kinjoo: fantastic work in Linux Tag, btw
<kinjoo> will be german first, then hopefully english (depends on OReilyy USA)
<kinjoo> sabdfl: Thanks!
<mako> i appreciated his work at LT and enjoyed the kebap i ate with him on the way to the trainstation
<sabdfl> so, CC, yes, or defer, to kinjoo membership in the ubuntu project?
<kinjoo> mako: ;-)
<Seveas> kinjoo++
<ogra> ++
<mako> (but i have never meat a kebab i didn't enjoy)
<\sh> kinjoo: ++
<mdke> kinjoo, if you like you can help the Documentation Team, just give us an email :D
<mako> ++ from me
<mvo> kinjoo++
<\sh> mako: come to kerpen ;)
<mdke> kinjoo ++ for membership
<Seveas> past advocacy work definitely qualifies imho
<sabdfl> Kamion: ?
<kinjoo> mdke: certainly!
<mdke> kinjoo, that would be great, we are working on a number of books right now, you can see the list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
<\sh> kinjoo: if you have a meeting here in cologne with the o'reilly guys, give me a call to sign keys and have a beer :)
<Mez> brb
<kinjoo> \sh: cool, I call u
<\sh> kinjoo: would be nice, if we can get sebastian bergmann, to work with us on ubuntu php or something...but he is involved right now in gentoo :(
<Seveas> ubuntu php?
<Mez> seveas ++
<\sh> kinjoo: but I think to get some contacts at o'reilly ping him and greetings from me
<sabdfl> i'm guessing colin / kamion is afk right now
<Mez> (or should that be +?)
<sabdfl> +1 from me for kinjoo
<kinjoo> \sh: I will talk to him!
<sabdfl> i have a casting vote, which i'll use here to welcome kinjoo aboard
<\sh> kinjoo: welcome on board :) if it's working u rock dude
<Seveas> welcome kinjoo !
<ogra> sabdfl, well done :)
<Mez> congrats kinjoo
<Kamion> kinjoo> +1
<sabdfl> kinjoo: thanks again for your advocacy
<kinjoo> Thank you, guys!
<sabdfl> Kamion: phew :-)
<Kamion> sorry for lag, I'm catching up elsewhere
<ogra> kinjoo, welcome
<\sh> hahah
<sabdfl> np
<\sh> guys: ubuntu php is only an idea :)
<mako> alright
<sabdfl> Kamion: you vector. i'm bunged up this eve
<sabdfl> next up!
<ogra> nalioth
<mako> lets move on
<Seveas> MarekSpruell
<sabdfl> marek spruell?
* Mez hands sabdfl some nasal spray
<Kamion> sabdfl: d'oh :-/
<Mez> nalioth
<sabdfl> nalioth: around?
<nalioth> howdy
<\sh> nalioth: u r not a member?
<nalioth> i had to work during last cc
<Seveas> last week he got the 2-week-notice
<ogra> nalioth, so how is UbuntuNUN going ? 
<nalioth> in the meat world
<Mez> nalitoh got put off for 2 weeks and missed last one
<mdz> Kamion: sabdfl is trying to transmit your pathology to me
<Kamion> ogra: beat me to it] 
* mako nods
<Kamion> mdz: I don't want to know
<ogra> Kamion, new users network
<mdz> Kamion: easy, tiger
<mako> nalioth: want to do the intro to your work and your vision?
<nalioth> i have been working with Mez and Seveas concerning the NUN
<Seveas> ubuntuNUN is still in early stages, nalioth and /me are working on specs and things
<Kamion> ogra: yeah, I know, that's why I was about to ask about it too
<Mez> oi and me Seveas !
<nalioth> have been pointing prospective 'mentors' to the sign-up page
<Seveas> but i've been a tad busy myself so it god delayed on my side
<ogra> Kamion, yes, i just remembered you dislike of abbrev.
<\sh> NUN is ruling da world 
<Seveas> NuN will be great, nalioth is doing good IRC work too
<\sh> I just saw seveas and others answering a lot of questions lately
<nalioth> i help out quite a bit in #ubuntu with the "new" new user questions
<mdke> is there a URL for this NuN thing?
<Mez> for anyone who's interested: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/unp/+members
<\sh> and nalioth is doing good work as well
<ogra> got a wiki page ? 
<mdke> found it
* sabdfl likes the LP usage :-)
* Seveas wants nalioth as member and definitely as IRCop in #ubuntu, we lack US based active ops
<Mez> ogra: still in developemtn
<mdke> NewUserNetwork <- ogra
<\sh> hope u get rid of those stupid "Newbie" stuff ;)
<ogra> mdke, thanks :)
<Mez> sabdfl, you gave me the idea to use it :D 
<\sh> my idea actually
<Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserNetwork
<Mez> \sh what was your idea?
<\sh> mez: NUN
<Mez> ah the name :D
<Mez> lol
<Mez> and the concept :D
<mdke> nice guidelines Seveas 
<mako> nuns :)
<\sh> the concept, i have nothing to do with it ;) but the meaning of Ubuntu and NUN comes along quite nicely :)
<Seveas> which reminds me, i'll put op ubuntuguide.org for the next agenda...
<Mez> yeah, we're thinking of getting NUNHelpers to sign the guidelines...
<Mez> Seveas - I think we'll be putting up NUN too :D
<Mez> anyways
<mdke> i don't like the name NewbieGods
* Mez pokes nalioth
<\sh> mdke: ++
<mdke> its a bit patronising
<Seveas> mdke, that has been scrapped already
<sabdfl> mdke: agreed
<Mez> mdke - we're changing it :D
<nalioth> mdke: it will be changed in all places
<Mez> we said all this last meeting :D
<mdke> okies
<mako> dd/win 24
<Mez> and we'll be changing it
<\sh> I told seveas to rename and/or remove it...newbies is just a word like "stoopids"
<Seveas> indeed
<bddebian> Hey, I resemble that remark
<Seveas> the NuN will not talk about newbies OR gods
<mdke> its simple to rename pages, just check the backlinks by cliccking on the page title, then fix the links, then rename
<mdke> i don't mind doing it
<Seveas> But let's get back to the agenda, we were discussing nalioth
<mako> Seveas: thanks
<Mez> mdke :D we're getting around to it :D I've been moving house so thats why it's been going slow :D and yeah - nalioth
<mako> right
<Seveas> +1 from me
<sabdfl> could any of the other NUN guys comment on nalioth's contribution?
<ogra> +1 for nalioth 
<Mez> sabdfl, to NUN ?
* mako is happy with the work and improvements in the last week
<ogra> Mez, overall
<sabdfl> Mez: across the board
<\sh> as I said. nalitoth is doing a great job...I can't do it
<ogra> \sh, so everything you cant do is great ??
<mako> +1 from me
<Mez> across the board: nalitoh +1 from me, he's been doing a great job recruiting for NUN and also a great job supporting people via IRC...
<Mez> he says he puts in 10 hours a week
<\sh> ogra: no :)
<Mez> seems more like 20
<Mez> nalioth +1
<sabdfl> Kamion: your vote on nalioth for membership? NewUserNetwork admin and strong forum contributor
<\sh> ogra: but sometimes I don't have the nerves for this new user thing. and I agree with larf...we need to inform the peopel, give them knowledge..so nalioth ++1
<bddebian> Hmm, that might actually be one place I can help
<Mez> strong IRC contributor sabdfl 
<Mez> bddebian, poke me after the meeting and we'll talk
<bddebian> OK, thx
<Kamion> I haven't encountered nalioth myself much, but he seems to have a fan club among people I do know :-) +1
<Seveas> Request to interrupt the members discussion after nalioth
<bddebian> Doh I'll never get home.. :-)
<Seveas> lilo has to leave soon, so can we please schedule the freenode registration now
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me too, welcome nalioth!
<ogra> hello nalioth 
<nalioth> thanks, y'all
<Seveas> welcome aboard, nalioth
<Seveas> signed CoC's go to mako :)
<sabdfl> nalioth: you need to get a signed CoC to mako, and request membersip at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers/
<Mez> nalioth needs to get a key signed first ;)
<lips> hi all
<ogra> Mez, he can also find a notary
<bddebian> Hello lips
<mako> #
<mako> RajasekarKarthik
<tseng> mako: no no
<Seveas> make, wait
<Mez> ogra: notary?
<Seveas> mako*
* ogra has no idea who that is....
<Seveas> read my last lines please :)
<Seveas> Request to interrupt the members discussion after nalioth
<Seveas> lilo has to leave soon, so can we please schedule the freenode registration now
<sabdfl> ok
<ogra> nalioth, nope
<mako> got it sorry
<Seveas> lilo, you're up :)
<mako> please, go ahead
<ogra> nalioth, its the alternative way
<lilo> okay.... first of all, I should introduce myself
<lilo> I'm Rob Levin, the executive director of Peer-Directed Projects Center and the head of staff of its project freenode
<sabdfl> karthik085, you are next, please shout if you are present?
<lilo> thank you so much for putting us on the agenda!
<Seveas> yw :)
<lilo> as you may have seen on the website, we're eternally in the process of transitioning from something that is not quite normal IRC to something that is slightly less like normal IRC :)
<Kamion> lilo: thanks for going to the effort of going through these channels :-)
<Mez> karthik doesnt seem to be here
<lilo> Kamion: not a problem :)
<Kamion> er, channels not in the IRC sense ...
<lilo> Kamion: glad to :)
<lilo> one of the latest changes is that we are in the process of slowly producing a replacement for irc services which is oriented more toward users and real-world gro
<lilo> ups than toward nicks and channels
<lilo> (forgive me, lack of sleep and an unfamiliar keyboard here :)
<bddebian> NP
<sabdfl> (terrex: btw, you'll be up next, could you be ready with a few sentences on where you'd like to take the ubuntu project and what your contribution has been so far?)
<lilo> the new system involves registering organizations and then providing them with user cloaking and with more direct control of their channels
<lilo> as a forerunner to the new system, we have instituted a manual group registration process so that we can provide groups with some additional assistance in the interim, particularly, cloaks
<lilo> so that's where you guys come in :)
<Mez> lilo - I'm surprised you're coming to us about this rather than us coming to you
<Kamion> FWIW, we did discuss the group registration thing at one point a while back
<\sh> lilo: u mean: #ubuntu* -> canonical/ubuntu?
<mdke> that's service eh
<Kamion> I think it didn't happen due to lack of effort more than anything else
<Kamion> but I could be wrong
<lilo> Mez: I'm hoping to get most of the major projects cut over *before* the new software comes in
<Seveas> I for one am totally supporting registering Ubuntu to show teamspirit
<lilo> \sh: exactly
<Mez> lilo :D nice we're recognised :D I was actually going to suggest talking to you guys about this in AOB - till it came up on the agenta :D
<lilo> one of the near-term advantages to the new system is that we can cloak your members for you, as a way to show their affiliation :)
<Seveas> And am volunteering to be the contact, if the CC agrees
<lilo> Mez: :)
<lilo> since I'm a bit short on time, let me point you to the basic docs
<lilo> and summarize
<lilo> http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml describes registration and points to the registration form
<\sh> lilo: what's the purpose of cloaking anyways?
<lilo> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#groups is the section of the faq which talks about groups
<mdke> \sh, hides your ip/gives you l33t status
<Seveas> \sh, showing group participation
<Kamion> lilo: awkward question: do you see Canonical and Ubuntu as the same organisation from this point of view? As you may know, there are some internal Canonical channels too.
<Mez> \sh - /whois riddell
<lilo> \sh: it's really for you guys to label your participants
<lilo> \sh: it's a way to give them a little pat on the back, and to show your project around freenode as well
<lilo> we like it because it gives freenode participants more of a window into who's working on what
<\sh> lilo: so, if i'm working for more projects then ubuntu, i have a problem, right? or can I cloak on channel level?
<Seveas> \sh, no you cannot
<lilo> \sh: right now you'd have to pick a single project to cloak yourself 
<lilo> \sh: there's no convenient way to switch
* lilo looks apologetic
<Seveas> \sh, file a wishlist bug :)
<\sh> Seveas: this is not the point ;)
<lilo> but eventually you'll be able to select your cloak at any given moment, and I suspect your user page and whois could show all your affiliations
<Mez> lilo, but I'm sure thats something you could work on?
<sabdfl> Kamion: i guess it would all be ubuntu
<lilo> Mez: definitely
<lilo> Mez: we're going to a more web-based system
<Kamion> sabdfl: if you're happy with that, by definition so am I ;-)
<lilo> Mez: and there I think we'll have a lot more configuration options
<lilo> Mez: chat remains the same, but services will be more web-based
<sabdfl> Kamion: i'm open to suggestions of course, just saying i don't have a need to dfferentiate
<\sh> lilo: one question more: how many user contributed servers do u have now in your network, where u have at least irc-admin access to ?
<Seveas> lilo, why do you want as many groups as possible now instead of when the new software is there?
<lilo> Mez: and the intent is definitely to give people more cloaking options
<Mez> lilo - couldnt you make it more like a "hostserv" style thing to enable you to switch cloak?
<sabdfl> lilo: is there a cost?
<lilo> \sh: I'd have to check, probably currently about 25
<lilo> sabdfl: there is no cost whatsoever
<Mez> sabdfl, nope - read the documents
<lilo> sabdfl: we do it because you're participants 8)
<mdke> haha
<lilo> sabdfl: well, there is one slight cost
<\sh> lilo: liar ;)
<sabdfl> lilo: can we easily feed you a text list of members?
<ogra> heh
<sabdfl> and update it automatically?
<Kamion> sabdfl: the only issue would be if there were any kind of network-imposed access control policy
<lilo> sabdfl: to get cloaks, you need to fill out a group contact form, at which point you acknowledge an official relationship with us :)
<mdz> lilo: what do you gain when more users particpate in this?
<lilo> sabdfl: basically, you say, "we're here" :)
<Seveas> sabdfl, it takes a group contact to do that
<lilo> sabdfl: that's the cost :)
<sabdfl> because we could link the launchpad membership list to that, and then it would be automatic
* \sh doesn't like cloaking
<mdke> ++
<ogra> sabdfl++
<Seveas> \sh, cloaking is not the only point
<sabdfl> \sh: is cloaking optional? lilo?
<lilo> mdz: we gain one more official participating group, and we gain the advantage of having your participants more visible on the net
<Mez> lilo - you should have said it costs a lot ;) mark's a rich guy ya know :D
<Mez> :P
<sabdfl> Mez: rich and STINGY!
<bddebian> heh
<smurfix> Cloaking is optional, says the FAQ
<lilo> Mez: hehe
<\sh> it doesn't give u a security at all...so it's only cosmetic
<sabdfl> ok, this sounds fun
<lilo> sabdfl: so, it's, like, pretty cheap :)
<lilo> \sh: not much security yet
<Mez> sabdfl, yet you pay to go to space and agree to talk for free at LRL
<lilo> \sh: again, something we plan to improve
<Mez> sabdfl, you say link it to launchpad - which member group ?
<sabdfl> Mez: moments of weakness, of which i';m sometimes proud ;-)
<mdz> Mez: for example, Ubuntu
<lilo> I will note that, when it comes to programmer help, freenode is probably the lowest-priority project on freenode 8)
<lilo> but we're slowly making improvements :)
<\sh> lilo: so, cloaking is a nice to have for someone wants to show off...but gives u no security against floods or ddos?
<sabdfl> mez: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers/+members
<lilo> \sh: it provides some security
<lilo> \sh: there are race conditions
<Kamion> lilo: if we fed you a membership list automatically as a list of project members, would all those folks end up cloaked, or can you distinguish in a slightly more fine-grained way between project members and project members who want cloaks?
<lilo> \sh: again, that we plan to resolve
<Mez> sabdfl, and we're only glad you do have those moments of weakness... we wouldnt be here if you did
<Seveas> Kamion, users will have to set-up cloaking themselves
<lilo> Kamion: the faq section on cloaking describes what you guys can do
<Mez> s/did/didn\'t/
<sabdfl> Mez: nah. that was a moment of weakness on your folks' part :-)
<lilo> Kamion: basically, you can acknowledge whoever you consider to be a participant, and label them generically, or according to their role
<Kamion> lilo: yeah, I read that, it was woolly :-)
<\sh> lilo: sorry, i only ask, cause the other irc networks are running quite diff. ircds ;)
<Mez> sabdfl, I mean this community ;) :P
<mdke> hah
<sabdfl> lilo: if you can commit that individual members will still have control, then we can ask the community council how they feel about publishing the list to freenode like that
<lilo> Kamion: you can cloak foo as foo.member.ubuntu or as foo.ubuntu
<lilo> sabdfl: individual freenode participants can always accept or reject a cloak; it's offered, not required
<Kamion> lilo: right, but some of our project members won't want to be cloaked, even though we would wish to acknowledge them as project members
<lilo> sabdfl: you provide us with the list, and the user accepts or rejects
* lilo nods at Kamion 
<Kamion> ok
<lilo> usually we add cloak and then ask, because in most cases the user already knows they're getting a cloak
<mako> sounds fine
<lilo> in the case of ubuntu, though, we can ask first, then cloak
<Seveas> sounds ok to me
<\sh> lilo: how do u add cloaks? on host basis or ip or network?
<lilo> it's your preference
<lilo> \sh: by registered nick
<\sh> lilo: or is it just like nickserv?
<lilo> \sh: so the user should register, and then we add the cloak
<lilo> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup describes the canonical (no pun intended) nick setup
<lilo> it's a bit elaborate, which is another thing we're working on fixing in the long term 8)
<lilo> \sh: it's done through nickserv *nod*
<\sh> so \sh could be \sh!~sh@somewhere @ ubuntu_cloack
<Seveas> \sh, yes
<\sh> but \sh_away is not covered
<lilo> generally you'd be something like sh.somethingorother.ubuntu
<Seveas> it is
<mdke> you can link the nicks
<lilo> any linked nicks are covered
<sabdfl> lilo: we would feed you a list of nick's, right?
<lilo> the first token is unique per-user, per-project and you can use name, userid, forum id, master nick, committer id, etc.
<lilo> whatever you guys want to pick
<lilo> sabdfl: a list of nicks and any needed cloak detail
<lilo> (foo.member.ubuntu, foo.staff.ubuntu, etc.)
<lilo> you guys design the hierarchy
<sabdfl> lilo: hmm... cloak detail would be hard to provide from our membership list
<lilo> as long as it meets the general requirements
<sabdfl> oh, right
<sabdfl> ok
<lilo> sabdfl: it's your choice whether to provide it
<Mez> sabdfl, dont you ahve differnt groups for members/maintainers?
<sabdfl> ok, let's ask the CC if they want to proceed with this, and then we can work out the details
* \sh doesn't like cloaking..I'm a member of a community and not somethign special..
<sabdfl> Mez: yes, we do
<Seveas> +1 from me
<lilo> another benefit of group registration is that we can reserve your channel name space
<\sh> -1 from me
<sabdfl> developers, members (should be a superset, but it's not enforced), translators...
<Mez> then you can use that or just have everyone as nick.ubuntu
<lilo> we'd reserve #ubuntu-* and #canonical-* probably
<Mez> lilo - what about #kubuntu-*
<sabdfl> mako, Kamion?
<mdz> lilo: probably?  are there standards for this?
<terrex> hi friends
<lilo> we have to defer to trademarks and we also defer to clear community-based name ownership
<Seveas> lilo, what about channels that are registered already?
<mako> sabdfl: sounds totally fine to me
<terrex> im late for the meeting sorry
<terrex> xd
<sabdfl> terrex: np, you're up next
<Kamion> sabdfl: just waiting for this namespacing discussion to finish
<lilo> mdz: we do what's intuitive based on, again, trademark or clear community title
<mdz> lilo: what level of control is granted for channels which are reserved, and to whom?
<\sh> I mean, chanserv and nickserv are enough for many of us who r working on more projects
<lilo> mdz: we get with you to disambiguate if there's a conflict
<lilo> mdz: in the case of ubuntu, there would be a sponsoring organization, if I understand the relationship correctly, and that would be canonical
<terrex> i want to became a comunity member
<Seveas> terrex, you'll be up next, please wait your turn
<sabdfl> \sh i think this would just be a nice way to show your affiliation with a project, and as long as lilo says the user has totaly control no matter what a project says about them (something i assume they need just for basic sanity anyhow) it's fine by me
<terrex> ok sorry.
<lilo> so we would need someone at canonical with the authority to create a relationship with PDPC to submit an 'approving' entry
<mdz> lilo: sponsoring in what sense?  representation, or financial support?
<Kamion> lilo: I think the question would be, how much bureaucracy would one of us have to wade through if we wanted to create a temporary channel in our namespace quickly?
* lilo guesses that would be sabdfl 
<lilo> Kamion: initially you just create it, and let us know if there's a conflict with a non-ubuntu "old-style" chanserv owner
<lilo> Kamion: we talk to them for you and fix it
<Kamion> sounds a bit WIPOish ;-)
<Seveas> lilo, so creating #ubuntu-foobar temporarily is no big deal?
<lilo> Kamion: when freenode-registry goes in, the approving contact can delegate both the control and the operation of some or all channels, and there will be a default feature
<lilo> Seveas: none at all, and less once we get to the next generation server :)
<lilo> Seveas: right now we intervene gently and manually if there's a problem, we point to the policy, and so on
<lilo> Seveas: eventually you'll have direct control
<Kamion> ok, we have a large enough collection of people who might want to do such things that I think locking it down technologically would probably be overengineering
<mako> alright.. i'm going to need to dispear soon
<mako> they'reabout to kick people out
<Seveas> sounds like a lot of occasional manual labor
<Mez> lol
<\sh> sabdfl: it's my opinion...i'm working on more projects then ubuntu..(not distro related) so I don't like the idea, actually, I'm a man of the folk not a "see, i have a ubuntu dev/member/god"...
<lilo> Kamion: well, you can decide how to delegate it once the services replacement appears on the scene
<lilo> you as a project
<Seveas> mako, stand your ground! :)
<sabdfl> \sh: that's why i think it's essential you're able to override this
<mdz> \sh: as I understand it, that's your decision
<sabdfl> otherwise ANY project will claim linus as a member :-)
<lilo> no one has to accept a cloak
<seth_k> mako, go war driving :P
<lilo> it's always the decision of the person to whom it's offered
<\sh> sabdfl: if it's not forced, u have my vote, if it's forced, remove my nick from the list
<sabdfl> mako: thanks for making it! safe travels up to HEL, see you there friday
<lilo> we do ask that you let us hyphenate onto the first token an indication if you're a pdpc donor, so we can acknowledge those donors
<lilo> and then we ask the receipient of the cloak if that's okay, too :)
<lilo> some accept, some don't
<Kamion> lilo: first token of ...?
<mdz> mako: safe travels, and see you soon
<lilo> for example, kamion.member.ubuntu might become kamion-sustaining-pdpc.member.ubuntu
<mdz> mako: I've some fine bourbon to share in HEL
<lilo> again, optional
<\sh> sabdfl: but, if the cloak gives me more security against kiddy flooding or ddos then: 100% ++ from me
<lilo> \sh: it gives you some security
<\sh> lilo: we know the truth ;)
<lilo> \sh: there are race conditions and ways to get past it, but it definitely gives you casual security and eventual changes will make it pretty solid
* \sh is long enough on irc to know the system :)
<sabdfl> ok, let's take it to a decision
<Kamion> ok, since it sounds like post-group-registration things remain approximately business as usual for us unless we choose otherwise on an individual basis, I don't have an issue with acknowledging the network's support
<Mez> basically... this is just saying if you want it, youcan, if you dont you dont, but this is to say whether it should be available or not
<lilo> \sh: we have a prototype of ahighly secure cloak, but it's not scalable
<lilo> \sh: we know how to do it, but it's not yet usable
<sabdfl>  + 1 from me to explore it further OOB, and try it out
<Kamion> (which is a long way of saying "+1 as long as we keep thinking about it")
<Seveas> +1 from me too
<sabdfl> we can pull back if there's crack :-)
<ogra> +
<sabdfl> ok, and mako said he had no prob
<\sh> lilo: r u providing this security features to ircnet as well? or r u in contact with those admins?
<Seveas> sabdfl, shall I write a spec about this for the next CC?
<sabdfl> Seveas: that would be very cool
<lilo> \sh: every irc server code tree is a bit different
<Seveas> sabdfl, consider it done
<lilo> \sh: just about any network can do something similar if they so choose
<\sh> lilo: yes :) I mean those features can be backported ;)
<sabdfl> Seveas: we can ask ubuntu members to register their freenode nick in LP, and automatically send that text list to a freenode url
<Kamion> lilo: (for the avoidance of confusion, the vote's formally among the four council members, although others certainly get to have a say ...)
<sabdfl> see if you can work out the details with lilo
<Seveas> sabdfl, ack
<lilo> let me wrap up my end of it
<\sh> lilo: we r all coming from ircd ,-)
<lilo> we would need an approving group contact form from canonical, and we would phone the approving contact to verify
<sabdfl> lilo: email me that form, mark@ubuntu.com
<mdz> lilo: that's no problem if the council approves
<lilo> if you want a different day-to-day contact, we recommend several, and they need to submit the forms as 'approved' type
<Kamion> does this mean the council gets to assign action items to sabdfl? ;-)
<lilo> then we verify them and check with the approving contact
<bddebian> heh
<lilo> you tell us what authority they have
<lilo> then it's set up and several freenode staffers can take care of any cloaking requests or changes, or any channel record update requests
<sabdfl> Kamion: assign away, but not necessarily with boundless optimism :-)
<lilo> the url's provided above give you quite a bit of info
<sabdfl> ok, let's see if we can make this work
<Kamion> sabdfl: worth a try
<sabdfl> do we have a list of our current OPS?
<lilo> again, sorry to rush, and I really appreciate your putting us on the agenda
<\sh> lilo: can I poke u with some questions after this meeting?
<Seveas> sabdfl, OPS as in IRC operators?
<sabdfl> lilo: np, thanks for coming by, and we'll give this a whirl
<Kamion> are our current approved ops actually ops? :-P
<sabdfl> Seveas: yes
<Kamion> Seveas: channel operators
<Seveas> sabdfl, /msg chanservaccess #ubuntu list
* Mez is an op on #kubuntu
<Seveas> sabdfl, /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list
<lilo> sabdfl: fantastic... please use the 'squeaky wheel' procedure as outlined in the faq to make sure we take care you quickly
* Seveas would like to have nalioth operator too
<sabdfl> Seveas: we also have an approved list, and i suspect most of them are not yet activated
* lilo waves to all and heads out
<Kamion> that list does not correspond to what's previously been agreed
<Seveas> sabdfl, ah
* lilo bows
<sabdfl> cheers lilo
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> thanks Seveas, will be interesting to see where that goes
<sabdfl> next, terrex?
<Kamion> jdub can create new operators; Keybuk/fabbione/lamont may be able to as well
<terrex> hi
<Seveas> terrex, give us the 3-line description please :)
<terrex> I'm using ubuntu since a half of a year; and linux 3 years ago. I send several bugs to ubuntu and gnome, and i've been joining some #ubuntu channels. At now i want to help with translate it to Spanish.
* \sh tries to get a server inside the freenode network
<Seveas> terrex, are you in contact with the spanish team already?
<Kamion> can applicants please state their real name? thanks
<terrex> no, i arent
<ogra> Kamion++
<Seveas> terrex, please contact them
<seth_k> Kamion: terrex = GuillermoGutirrezHerrera
<Seveas> terrex, is Jorge Daza
<Seveas> hmm ol
<terrex> launchpad doesnt accept my gpg
<Seveas> i'm behind on the list :)
<Kamion> seth_k: thanks
<Mez> terrex - shove it on a hey server :D
<Mez> terrex - cool name
<terrex> it is.
<terrex> jeje thx
<mdke> terrex, file a bug maybe
<Seveas> terrex, what have you been doing for Ubuntu so far?
<Kamion> terrex: you can certainly go ahead and start helping out; that would be good evidence of contribution towards membership
<terrex> i send the coc signed to benjamin
<terrex> i distributed 8 copies of it for my friends
<terrex> and they are using it hapily, st with my help
<Mez> terrex - have you contributed on the forums, via IRC, or the mailing lists?
<terrex> yes, sending bugs
<Mez> have you filed bugs? packaged anything?
<ogra> fixed bugs, made artwork etc...
<Kamion> I would like to see more evidence of contribution; links to bugs filed would be useful, as would follow-through on things like translation work
<terrex> no only filed bugs
<ogra> terrex, we will need a list of stuff you did ...
<Seveas> terrex, membership primarily is a sign of recognition of past and current contribution for Ubuntu, so I would say: contact the spanish Ubuntu team, help them out and et them vouch for you in a few weeks for your membership
<Kamion> it sounds like terrex is working along the right lines, but just needs to keep at it :-)
<\sh> terrex: You didn't get your wife to use linux, why not?
<sabdfl> terrex: you're on the right track, and will likely be accepted as a member, but it will require some consistent constribution over time
<terrex> im single \sh 
<seth_k> \sh, that's Jorge you're talking about
<Kamion> \sh: you seem to be in a somewhat confrontational mood tonight ...
<Seveas> \sh, terrex != Jorge
<seth_k> \sh, this is Guillermo
<\sh> argl
<\sh> sorry
<terrex> im Guillermo
<terrex> yes
<\sh> Kamion: no :) 
<Seveas> was JorgeDaza skipped..?
<\sh> terrex: forget it :)
<terrex> doesnt matter
<\sh> Kamion: and no confrontational mood :) 
<sabdfl> ok, terrex: thanks for coming tonight, i know it's late in spain! can you keep going, build your wiki page with links to the bugs you file or comment on, etc, till you've made a strong impact on the community?
<sabdfl> then come back for membership?
<Mez>  Jorge isnt here Seveas
<sabdfl> it does take time
<sabdfl> bddebian: around?
<bddebian> Of course
<sabdfl> you're up
<terrex> yes here is 01.25 AM
<terrex> ok, i will
<sabdfl> terrex: thanks!
<bddebian> First off, let me say that I am not expecting membership at this point.  I'm still looking for a place I can help out more effectively.
<bddebian> Oh, Barry deFreese btw
<sabdfl> bddebian: you're not much older than me :-)
<bddebian> Heh
<ogra> bddebian, but you are already quite entertaining in -motu :)
<\sh> sabdfl: u r 35?
<ogra> \sh, younger ;)
<sabdfl> 31, for a little while longer
<bddebian> ogra: Well that's good but I'd like to help too. ;-)
<sabdfl> bddebian: we'd love to have you on board in whatever capacity floats your boat
* \sh is feeling old 
<bddebian> I have been trying to package FreePascal, I've been through the Cxx transitions list, the bug list about 4 times
<terrex> ok friends, i'm going to bed, to the next meeting!
<mdz> FLeiXiuS: welcome from the old stomping ground of MD ;-)
<bddebian> Gn terrex 
<Seveas> good night terrex 
<ogra> 1/2+ from me for bddebian for entertainement and motivation in the cannel 
<sabdfl> bddebian: the WHOLE bug list?
<Seveas> ogra, any contributions yet?
<\sh> bddebian is a great add ... he likes working and poking around ,-)
<bddebian> I will probably jump on the NuN list now that I know about it
<bddebian> sabdfl: Yes
<Seveas> bddebian, great :)
<ogra> Seveas, a lot of words :)
<bddebian> sabdfl: Oh and there are several duplicates
<mdz> bddebian: what is the origin of your interest in FreePascal?
<Seveas> ogra, that's important too
<sabdfl> bddebian: ok, i like your spirit and the MOTU guys appreciate your presence, so i think you're on track
<bddebian> mdz: It was on the list :-)
<ogra> Seveas, exactly
<Seveas> 1/2+ from me too, defering at least 2 weeks seems appropriate
<bddebian> I started with xfce4 but was dissuaded
<sabdfl> bddebian: find something that's fun and manageable and grow from there
<sabdfl> bddebian: anything else?
<ogra> bddebian, you should coordinate xfce4 stuff with crimsun...
<Seveas> bddebian, oh and change your nick :)
<mdz> bddebian: what went wrong with xfce4?  are you interested in the LightweightDesktop feature?
<sabdfl> Seveas: dude! open arms!
<bddebian> sabdfl: I'm a little stuck too because I am heavily considering an Ubuntu GNU/Hurd distro
<bddebian> mdz: The MOM processes docs were confusing me some
<bddebian> Seveas: Unfortunately I'm kinda stuck with it.  A friend registered a domain with it and everything :-)
<sabdfl> bddebian: i'd love to see a port, but it would likely be a labour of love for years before it got fully supported
<bddebian> I expect that
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> bddebian: well, thank you for coming this evening and keep those MOTU guys laughing ;-)
<sabdfl> see you again soon
<Seveas> bddebian, I for one am happy to have an enthousiastic person like you on board, you will definietly become a member once contributions are visible
<bddebian> Hmm
<bddebian> Seveas: Thanks
<sabdfl> who's next?
<Seveas> seth_k, 
<seth_k> I am, I believe
<bddebian> I could use a tiny bit of guidance on what to help out on though.
<bddebian> Sorry, I'm done :-)
<sabdfl> seth_k: around?
<seth_k> indeed
<Seveas> bddebian, go poke ogra a bit more
<sabdfl> bddebian: how about the new artwork team?
<Kamion> (Seth Kinast, for the record)
<Seveas> become a motu :)
<sabdfl> there's lots to be coordinated
<sabdfl> a shiny web site to display their work would rock
<ogra> bddebian, we'll get you in shape ;)
<bddebian> sabdfl: Not really my bag unfortunately
<sabdfl> or join the MOTU team if you want to develop code
<bddebian> sabdfl: That, I am working on
<sabdfl> or help mdke make the wiki rock harder
<Kamion> any backports people wish to speak for Seth's contributions there?
* Mez waves
<sabdfl> seth_k: you're up!
<seth_k> Mez is a backports dev; he's sponsored many of my packages
<seth_k> I'm a senior at the University of Oklahoma; have been using Ubuntu since the release of Warty and have been running Breezy since the day after Hoary was released (I like pain ;) )
<seth_k> I feel that my primary contributions so far have been twofold
<lips> bddebian do you have anything more than website in ubuntu gnu/hurd project?
<sabdfl> seth_k: masochist
<Mez> Kamion- I'll talk for seth on backports... poke me when you need me
<seth_k> First, in the area of support: I have nearly 200 posts on the Ubuntu Forums, which are almost exclusively devoted to the areas of Hoary and Breezy support. Additionally, I spend an average of 10 to 12 hours a week on the Ubuntu IRC channels (mainly in #kubuntu), helping users there with their issues.
<mdke> sabdfl, bddebian yeah the wiki team is recruiting :)
<seth_k> (I'm also fluent in French, and so have had the opportunity to help some of Ubuntu's community in their native language.) I have also joined the NUN group and hope to channel some of my effort to that end.
<Kamion> Mez: now's fine
<bddebian> lips: I'm not sure I get your question?
<Seveas> seth_k, please join the NuN too, the NuN needs people like you
<seth_k> Secondly, in packaging and backporting: thanks to Mez and siretart, I've been increasing my work with Ubuntu packages. I've backported over 20 applications from Breezy to Hoary (and various others from Debian unstable to Hoary).
<seth_k> Seveas, I am a member of NuN
<mdke> gosh
<Mez> Seveas - he just did :D
<mdke> lots of activity
<seth_k> Also, I recently patched and packaged zSNES 1.4.2, a Nintendo SNES emulator, which was accepted by siretart and should be included in Breezy.
<seth_k> siretart expressed interest in having me join the MOTUGames team, which is an area in which I feel that I could contribute. KDE is really my first love, though; in the future I'd like to get deeper into KDE development and package some of the smaller KDE applications that as of yet have been overlooked. However, my primary focus remains support, as I feel that it's the biggest hurdle to overcome in making Linux available to the mainstre
<FLeiXiuS> mdz: ;-)
<seth_k> As far as where I see Ubuntu heading, let me quote from my wikipage: "Rather than being an elite community of hackers, Ubuntu is able to appeal to everyone, thanks to the emphasis on support and community. Bugs are fixable, poor user interfaces forgivable. But without a good community to help and support new users, they will never be able to succeed."
<Mez> Seth's done a lot of work for backports
<bddebian> How do you "join" the NuN team?  I thought the NewbieGods page was going away?
<sabdfl> seth_k: i just sms'd elmo about the backports infrastructure, i think it will be up soon
<Mez> in fact a few times we've raced to see who got the package built first
<Mez> but seth has a faster machine :D
<lips> bddebian i'm trying to follow hurd progress, and i know that they succeeded with running gnome on hurd. so i just want to know how far you are
<bddebian> seth_k: Amen to that, hence one of the big reasons I want an Ubuntu based GNU/Hurd :-)
<Seveas> bddebian, there is unp as team on launchpad
<seth_k> Ubuntu is the ONLY distro I've ever used with such an opportunity to get involved at EVERY level. From community support to the artwork team, there's so little bureaucracy! It's amazing
<Kamion> seth_k: any opinions on where how you'd like to see backport/mainstream cooperation going forward?
<Seveas> seth_k, wow, lots of enthousiasm there
<Kamion> s/where //
<bddebian> Seveas: OK, thx
<Mez> his packagesa re high quality (backports anywya) and he;s been a great help towards backports (I'm talking to John  to get him on team)
<seth_k> siretart would vouch for my zSNES Universe package imo, but he's asleep right now
<seth_k> Kamion, I think that "the b-word" are a necessity to make Ubuntu as accessible as it can be
<sabdfl> ok, can anybody else chime in on seth_k?
<seth_k> however, it's going to require a lot of QA infrastructure that we still don't have in place
<sabdfl> seth_k: i'm really excited about the official backports
<Mez> seht's also been a gerat help in #kubuntu ;)
<ogra> seth_k, just make a MOTUBackports team and use our QA ;)
* seth_k goes and pulls #kubuntu people to vouch for him :P
<Seveas> do official backports mean Ubuntu infrastructure?
<seth_k> yes
<mdke> seth_k sounds like he's done some good stuff. Help on forums and irc is good
<Seveas> because backports servers now are down a lot
<Kamion> Seveas: (previous meetings)
* Seveas shuts up. Thx Kamion 
<bddebian> OK, my apologies folks but I have GOT to head home.  Thank you for your time.  And +1 to seth_k  :-)
<sabdfl> Seveas: yes
<Riddell> seth_k does do lots of support in #kubuntu
<sabdfl> bddebian: thanks and good night!
<Kamion> Seveas: (not meant as a "shut up", more as a reference :-))
<Seveas> :)
<Mez> sabdfl, can I talk to you in a bit about how thing are going to go about fgor backports?
<mdz> Mez: have you already reviewed the meeting outcome?
<mdz> Mez: it's a matter of logistics at this point
<Mez> I've seen that it;'s been accepted :D
<sabdfl> Mez: i'm out of brownie points with the gf on late nights, and tonight isn't helping, so tomorrow ok?
<Mez> fair enough sabdfl (cute gf though - reminds me of my ex)
<mdke> we're still waiting for a review of the backports meeting
<sabdfl> Mez: we'll try bring it on stream this week, buildd's are ready for it
<\sh> lol
<mdke> that will help things along
<Seveas> +1 on seth_k from me, based on what I hear here
<Mez> sweet, well, poke me if you need things :D seeing as I'm the only one who'll be ablke to upload
<Mez> +1 for seth from me - for backports and for irc/forums
<sabdfl> seth_k: +1 from me on backports work
<ogra> +1 (for a still not given up hope on MOTUBackports)
<\sh> seth +1 for irc/forums but backports after official announcement...right now, there is more chaos about backports
<uniq> +1 for seth_k from what i've seen in #kubuntu. 
<Seveas> lol@ogra
<Mez> MOTU backports?
<\sh> Mez: yes..whynot ;)
<ogra> Mez, yes, i'm waiting for itz to form :)
<sabdfl> i think we'll be short without mako. kamion?
<Mez> ogra - poke me after meeting
<Kamion> +1 seth_k; seems articulate, sensible, enthusiastic, has done Stuff
<Mez> sabdfl, you have casting vote though :D
<seth_k> wow Kamion, heavy adjectives there :P
<sabdfl> Mez: don't often use it though
<Mez> elmo isnt here either is he?
<Seveas> Mez, he has never abused that (apart from ubuntu spatial :))
<Kamion> seth_k: you forgot the HEAVY NOUN
<sabdfl> in this case, ok +2 from me, so we're over the hump
<mdke> yeah love that Stuff
<sabdfl> welcome aboart seth_k
<sabdfl> all aboart
<mdke> good work seth_k 
<Kamion> sabdfl: advance warning, I'm beginning to pass out here
<sabdfl> Kamion: me too :-/
<seth_k> thank you all
<Kamion> I hadn't expected to be up until 1 here
<ogra> hey seth_k :)
<mdke> bed calls for me
<Seveas> Next up: marketing efforts
<ogra> Kamion, be happy youre not here ;)
<bddebian> Gn mdke 
<Seveas> or are we deferring that to next time?
<kinjoo> Ah that's my point
* \sh has a date tomorrow :(
<kinjoo> I'd be glad. It's almost 2 here
<Seveas> here too
<Seveas> (NL)
<kinjoo> (DE)
<mdz> \sh: don't expect sympathy :-P
<Seveas> sabdfl, Kamion, given that you are passing out and mako and elmo are not here, shall we defer this final item?
<sabdfl> is there anyone here who has a strong interest in the marketing topic?
<\sh> mdz: hehehe ;)
<kinjoo> deferr it, so everyone can get to his gf
<sabdfl> ok
<\sh> mdz: i'm up for everything :) but this woman is hotter the linux will ever be ;)
<sabdfl> deferred!
<sabdfl> thanks guys
<Seveas> Next meeting: july 20 14:00 UTC
<kinjoo> the most important thing about marketing would be coop with other projects
<ogra> \sh, tell us againg in a year :-P
<sabdfl> \sh: you never saw the images we COULDN'T put into the calendar!
<mdke> \sh, surely not
<mdz> ogra: you sound like a married man ;-)
<sabdfl> night all
<nalioth> night
<Seveas> 'night everyone
<\sh> sabdfl: u have millaJ in there? ,-)
<sabdfl> Kamion: thanks very much for sticking with it
<mdke> lol @ mdz
<ogra> mdz, you know i'm not :)
<sabdfl> above and beyond...
<mdz> thanks to all for your participation
<mdke> night guys
<bddebian> Gn sabdfl 
<mdz> and good night
<kinjoo> night to everyone
<nalioth> ogra: notary?
<Kamion> sabdfl: ok, glad to defer the rest
<Seveas> i'll update the agenda
<ogra> nalioth, its outlined somewhere in the wiki
<Kamion> night, folks
<mdke> nalioth, he is a rock start
<Kamion> thanks to everyone for sticking around
<Seveas> btw: next meeting is 19 july
<Seveas> not 20
* \sh says sorry for all the old stupid sysadmin irc questions ;) hold up everything tonight ;)
<ogra> nalioth, you can get a pritout of your key approved at a notary and fax it to mako
<nalioth> ogra: ok thx (although i've arranged meetings with a couple of keysigners near me)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs ||  Tue 12 July 22:00 UTC: Tech Board -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu 14 July 22:00 UTC Documentation Team -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 19 July 14:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || This is NOT #ubuntu, or #ubuntu-devel
<ogra> nalioth, its the absolute fallback
<nalioth> ogra: if my meeting(s) fall thru, there is the fallback
<ogra> nalioth, yeps
<Kamion> Seveas: (thanks for topic gardening)
<Mez> ogra - wanna talk MOTUBackports?
<\sh> *yawn* 
<Seveas> Mez, you are MarekSpruell right?
<Mez> noooo...
<Seveas> hmm
<Mez> thats nalioth
<seth_k> Mez = MartinMeredith
<Seveas> ah
<Seveas> stupid me
<Mez> dont worry, mako did same thing
<Seveas> weeding out the agenda now :)
<nalioth> Seveas: i think your browser is spoofing you
<Seveas> OK, agenda updated
<Mez> Seveas - you trying to be CC Secretary ? :P
<Seveas> neh, just saving Mako some work :)
<Seveas> half a bottle of beer to go and i'll go to sleep :_
<Seveas> :)
<nalioth> y'all be good
<Seveas> same to you :)
<FLeiXiuS> kassetra: <3
* seth_k is away: sleepytime
<fabbione> it's everything inside the tar
<fabbione> including the log or build-log
<fabbione> i can't remember how i called the file
<fabbione> there was no .i iirc.. only .s
<terrex> hi
<terrex> follows Malone the same numeration of bugs that Bugzilla?
<Kamion> terrex: no; but this channel is a poor place to ask
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-17
* terrex se va a mimir, tamn
<Simira> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> Hi Simira
<JaneW> how's the new home?
<Simira> JaneW : temporarily... luckily. I'm currently on Debconf in Helsinki, though.
<JaneW> cool, how's it going?
<Simira> JaneW : exciting... some don't like ubuntu as much as others, but there's a lot of cool people.
<Simira> and really, really warm
<JaneW> warm here today too - 27 degs (and it's mid winter!)
<Simira> yay... but you're supposed to be used to it. It's about 30 here, I think. Maybe a couple degrees colder today. And I'm in Northern europe... eww...
<Treenaks> hm, and here in The Netherlands it's only 26
<smurfix> you should move this discussion to #ubuntu-weather ;)
<Treenaks> smurfix: it's not like there's much discussion going on anyway
<JanC> Simira : I got some feedback from debconf by Luk Claes & Danny Cautaert
<JanC> mainly about mosquitos, bad food, saunas & estonian alcohol
<JanC> ;-)
<Treenaks> JanC: Luk Claes.. family of yours? :)
<JanC> nope, he has no "y"  :)
<Treenaks> JanC: all those Belgian names look the same to me :P
<Simira> JanC : sounds just like it, yes
<JanC> but he's a co-member of LugWV.be  :)
<\sh> evening ladies & gentlemen
<\sh> 1 minute
<Kamion> I pinged Keybuk; neither mdz nor sabdfl seem to be on-line at the moment
<Kamion> all are at Debconf, I think
<\sh> no problem 
<\sh> I only want to discuss wine packages
<dholbach> getting drunk, presumably
<\sh> that's also ok...I'm doing the same..
<\sh> but not now..after the meeting
<\sh> dholbach: but u r there...this is really good..
<zul> isnt it only 20:00
<\sh> 20:00 utc
<doko> hmm, I think they left for the hotel or a restaurant
<zul>  /topic says its at 22:00
<dholbach> \sh: are any of my actions required?
<Mez> erm
<Mez> arent we like..
<\sh> dholbach: I want to have a opinion
<Mez> 2 hours early ?
<Mez> Tue Jul 12 20:02:20 UTC 2005
<\sh> Tuesday 12 July 2005 at 2000 UTC
<\sh> webpage
<Mez>  Tue 12 July 22:00 UTC: Tech Board -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda 
<Mez> topic
<Kamion> oh, great, the topic here disagrees with the wiki
<\sh> TechnicalBoardAgenda
<\sh> fck
<\sh> again
<Kamion> the wiki says 2000 UTC
<\sh> yeah
<Kamion> this business of maintaining information in two places is mad
<\sh> we need exchange
<\sh> I think
<Mez> lol
<\sh> or notes
<\sh> ok....22 UTC back here...don't get drunk guys *hicks*
<pitti> Hi
<dholbach> hi pitti
<\sh> hey pitti...
<\sh> pitti: tell mark, beer is to expensive at .fi
<pitti> \sh: the problem is, it isn't...
<\sh> what?
<pitti> too expensive
<\sh> when I was the last time...oh well
<\sh> .se != .fi then
<\sh> or I have the wrong job ;)
<sistpoty> Hi all
<siretart> hi folks!
<sistpoty> doko: are you online?
<doko> no
<sistpoty> g
<sistpoty> dholbach said, I can bother you about java-package?
<ogra> doko, so how is the tibook behaving in the saun ?
<ogra> sauna
<dholbach> sistpoty: he wants to have a new java-package synced from debian, because our's doesn't work
<dholbach> oops, doko ^^
<sistpoty> exactly
<doko> which one?
<sistpoty> "java-package" itself ;)
<sistpoty> bug-report is here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=313555, seems to be fixed in debian
<doko> I don't mind. universe isn't frozen, isn't it?
<dholbach> oh, it's a universe package
<ogra> doko, it is :(
<dholbach> sistpoty: ask your favourite motu to sync it, if doko's happy :)
<sistpoty> that's why i asked in #motu at first ;)
<dholbach> seb128: Sb! :)
<seb128> dholbach: grumpf, my eth0 card just broke
<dholbach> seb128: oh :((
<seb128> dholbach: after some reboot I figured that's probably not a software issue and changed it ...
<siretart> dholbach: I don't get the "ask your favourite motu to sync it" part, may a motu upload "plain" and "unmodified" debian packages (java-package in this case) or shall we still append the -1ubuntu1 anyway?
<pitti> siretart: no, please don't. Just ask elmo to sync it
<dholbach> siretart: ah ok, yes, what pitti said
<ogra> siretart, just asking elmo for a sync from debian
<pitti> siretart: never upload a -ubuntuN package if you didn't actually do changes
<Mez> pitti: just a XbuildY? 
<\sh> -DbuildN is ok
<ogra> siretart, but we're in UVF, so if the upstream version changed you need mdz/Kamion approval
<pitti> yep
<pitti> ogra: certainly not for universe
<\sh> what now?
<ogra> pitti, for universe too
<\sh> anybody knows something else
<ogra> sadly
<\sh> weired
<pitti> ogra: hrm?
<pitti> that's new to me...
<siretart> pitti: ok. this is how I understood it so far.
<ogra> pitti, UVF is for the whole distro now
<pitti> ogra: D'oh
<dholbach> ogra: i don't recall hard UVF for universe in the last talk with kamion and you
<ogra> pitti, Kamion told me the other day
<dholbach> ogra: and surely they don't want to be pestered for every little change in universe
<ogra> dholbach, what do you think we talked about then ?
<seb128> pitti: does elmo actually do syncs this week ? :)
<siretart> well, I don't think that every package should be subject to UVF. java-package e.g. in not that likley to have regression. it is really constantly improving and it is (usually) really worth having the latest version around
<dholbach> ogra: we talked about a freeze in universe, yes, but the timing was different, afaik
<pitti> seb128: he's here, if you ask him, he probably will
<seb128> pitti: I've asked 2-3 times yesterday on #ubuntu-devel he just ignored me :p
<seb128> lemme try again
<pitti> seb128: mailing might be actually better
<seb128> pitti: yeah, maybe
<ogra> dholbach, we talked about UVF and i dont remeber we talked about a different date wrt universe/main, but we can ask Kamion later :)
<dholbach> ogra: what was the "one week before release" part about?
<ogra> huh ?
<ogra> dholbach, lets just wait for Kamion, i dont know what you mean with "one week before release" part...
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> let's talk about it in the meeting
<ogra> so put it on the agenda...
<dholbach> yes master
<ogra> heh
<siretart> ;)
<Simira> seb128 : elmo is on debconf
<seb128> Simira: I know, thanks :)
<Mez> ogra: I cant get in touch with jdong - should I still put backports on the agenda?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> Mez, what about the other backporters ?
<siretart> how many backporters are there at all? and who?
<Mez> erm
<Mez> there's 4 or 5
<Mez> me, jdong, slomo, and Mike Basinger
<Mez> and one who's on hols
<Mez> siretart, did you get my email?
<siretart> Mez: yes, I did. mom
<siretart> Mez: did you upload your key to a keyserver?
<Mez> er, not yet I dont think
<Mez> lol
<Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/pgp/
<Mez> It wasnt on key server until I made sure I had a hard copy of it :D
<Mez> I just shoved it up though
<Kamion> siretart: there's nothing wrong with exceptions for cases where it makes sense
<Kamion> but the exceptions should be explicit, not implicit!
<siretart> Kamion: I agree completly 
<pitti> well, explicit syncs do make sense for known-good packages, I agree
<Kamion> dholbach: I haven't been able to talk to mdz much since UVF happened; when he gets back we'll clarify things
<dholbach> ok
<Kamion> it's pretty impossible to coordinate with people who are at debconf though
<ogra> heh, yes
<siretart> pitti: perhaps we can agree that in general sync which fix "important" and higher bugs (in debian severity terms) are acceptable?
<ogra> they drink hard stuff, skate, eat melons and hang around in saunas according to planet debian
<siretart> hehe
<Kamion> siretart: that's always been reasonable cause for a freeze exception
<siretart> great! :)
<Kamion> but still one must ask for approval, if blanket approval has not been given
<siretart> right
<Mez> can someone please tell me why I'm getting "unauthorised" on the GB mirror?
<Kamion> because it might make sense to backport a smaller fix instead, or the sync might adversely affect something else
<Kamion> it's an extra review step to make sure we have better visibility across the distro when importing new code close to release
<Mez> w00t for backports :D
<Mez> when it gets instated
<siretart> can we define some sort of procedure for requesting syncs? I don't know if elmo doesn't get annoyed when we constantly ping him on irc with requests
<Kamion> that is the procedure
<Kamion> although during freeze, better send mail
<Kamion> so mail elmo, cc mdz and me
<Kamion> at least that's approximately what we've done in previous release cycles (with s/Kamion/jdub/)
<siretart> all right, will do then
<dholbach> ok
<siretart> ok, will be back in one hour then, when meeting really begins
<siretart> cu later
<Mez> you taking over from jdub then Colin?
<Kamion> Mez: not really
<Kamion> Mez: jdub's moving more towards business development though, and isn't taking so much of an active part in the distro team
<ogra> Mez, he looks better with tie then we all do ;)
<Kamion> mdz always did the bulk of that stuff, and in the last couple of freezes he's taken to saying "ask me or Colin" rather than "ask me or Jeff"
<Kamion> so I go with the flow :)
<jbailey> Eh?
<Burgundavia> Kamion, are you a foundation or canonical employee?
<Kamion> other Jeff
<jbailey> 'k =)
<Mez> ogra, with Kamion it'd have to be a clip on ;)
<Kamion> Burgundavia: as far as I'm aware nobody has shifted over to being employed by the Foundation yet
<Burgundavia> Kamion, ok
<Burgundavia> Kamion, that was my next question
<Burgundavia> the idea with the foundation is that other companies can also fund it?
<Kamion> Burgundavia: it hasn't yet been decided which members of the distro team will be employed by the Foundation and which by Canonical; I'm given to understand that there will be some of each
<Kamion> that's one thing I might speculate, but I don't know if that's the explicit intent
<Kamion> I think clear separation from Canonical's for-profit goals is more important, TBH
<Burgundavia> yes
<Kamion> but you can get all that from the press release :-)
<Burgundavia> I have seen some slagging ubuntu, asking what happens when sabdfl gets bored and moves on to his next project
<Kamion> http://www.livejournal.com/users/cjwatson/31101.html has my thoughts on it
<Kamion> continuity is obviously important, yes, trolling aside
<Burgundavia> Kamion, what is fieldwave?
<Kamion> a sufficient number of people have come to rely on Ubuntu that it would be poor form to drop it on the floor
<Kamion> Fieldwave is the company that actually employs UK Canonical staff
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> so the non-UK people work directly for canonical, but there are enough crazy limeys to make their own company?
<Kamion> it exists for some strange corporate organisational purposes I don't fully understand; for most practical intents and purposes Fieldwave can be considered as Canonical
<Burgundavia> probably tax purposes
* Mez goes and gets himself the neccessary tools for the meeting
<Mez> aka a beer 
<Kamion> formally, I believe Fieldwave's contracted by Canonical to do some work on its behalf
<Kamion> but as I say it doesn't make much practical difference and most of the UK employees will casually refer to themselves as Canonical staff
<Mez> Kamion, so canonical = US company, even though Mark lives in the UK?
<Kamion> Mez: no, Canonical is incorporated in the Isle of Man
<Mez> ah lol
<Mez> Marks' dodging tax again eh?
<jbailey> Mez: What would you assume US? =)
<Burgundavia> I think dodging tax goes with the lifestyle, the jet, etc.
<Mez> jbailey, someone above mentioned US :P
<Mez> Burgundavia, and the trips to space :P
<Mez> s/trips/trip/
<doko> hmm, pitti did leave?
<Kamion> let's call it taking advantage of favourable tax laws rather than throwing around suggestions of tax evasion in a publicly-logged channel, shall we? :-)
<ogra> doko, yes
<Mez> apologies Kamion, my references to tax evasion were jovial 
<Kamion> sure, understood, just thought it was kind of my duty to refute :)
<Mez> I know Kamion, but seeing as this is publically loggable and the meaning of my comment may have been in doubt, I thought I'd clarify
<Mez> so Kamion, are we still going to get a graphical isntaller for breezy?
<Mez> :P
<Kamion> UbuntuExpress is in progress, but mostly by Matt - I'm just doing the odd bit of support work for it
<dholbach> Kamion: are you giving an interview and i didn't notice? :p
<ogra> Mez, UbuntuExpress !
<jbailey> Mez: You know, I've heard that on the third time you poke him, he begins to demonstrate some of the latest karate techniques that he's learned...
<Kamion> haha
<ogra> *g*
<Kamion> only as a special present for elmo
<\sh> interview?
<Kamion> dholbach: it's beginning to feel that way, I admit ;)
<Mez> lol - dont... I've got images of Kamion in a karate suit now!
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> mez: really?
<\sh> Kamion: shotokan?
<Mez> lol :D and Kamion - you said you were personally working on the Graphical installer :D (from a liveCD)
<Kamion> \sh: yes
<jbailey> Mez: Somewhere on lamont's camera are pictures of the two of them in various holds.
<Kamion> Mez: I think I said "we"
<\sh> Kamion: you're welcome to our club in troisdorf..shotokan is the only way
<Kamion> if I didn't, it was unintentional
<Mez> you said "I" :P
<Mez> hehe :DP
<Kamion> Mez: oh, I said I was working on the cdebconf gtk frontend; that's a slightly different thing
<\sh> Kamion: hope to see u at the wkc in brasil?
<Mez> no, you said you were working on the LiveCD style install :D
<Mez> install from a desktop icon on the LiveCD
<dholbach> Mez: udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress should know :)
<ogra> Mez, UbuntuExpress .... Kamion built(ds) the base for it 
<Kamion> \sh: I'm not that good yet; only 8th kyu
<Mez> you may not have meant "I" but you said it (I think)
<dholbach> Mez: that's what he said :)
<Kamion> sadly, the recording didn't work so there is no way to resolve that
<\sh> Kamion: I'm only a parent of a master ;) so 8th kyu is yellow? orange? 
<Mez> Kamion - someone had a video Camera in there
<Kamion> \sh: yellow
<dholbach> Mez: <Kamion> if I didn't, it was unintentional      :)
<Mez> dholbach, I saw ;) 
<\sh> Kamion: really? so my son is, he is lilac, blue something
<Kamion> certainly my script says "we"
<\sh> violett
<\sh> ,-)
<Burgundavia> queue the whinging --> http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=11198
<dholbach> \sh: 5th?
<Kamion> blue would be 6th kyu in our club
<\sh> dholbach: something like this..he is youth NRW champion 2004
<\sh> dholbach: with green belt....now he's violett/blue international
<Kamion> white, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, purple+white, brown, brown+white, brown+red, black
<\sh> Kamion: here in .de it's white, yellow, orange, green, violett, brown, black ... black+dan
<dholbach> hmmm, 12 years ago, it was a bit different
<dholbach> yeah
<\sh> violett, is 2 years
<ogra> seems much more logical to sort the colors by lightness
<ogra> brightness
<\sh> brown is 2 years, too + you have to become 18
<\sh> years old
<Kamion> similar, brown is about 2 years, black about 4 minimum
<\sh> ogra: it's much more difficult...the belts doesn't say anything at all...if you see a 70 year old guy
<ogra> heh
<mdz> good evening
<ogra> hey mdz !
<Kamion> evening matt
<mdz> apologies for my lateness
<\sh> ogra: and this 70 yearold guy is fighting with swords and knifes against 3 people
<Mez> lateness mdz?
<mdz> one moment while I abude jordi's machin e
<\sh> matt: u r welcome :) hope the beer was good
<ogra> mdz, 22:00 UTC
<ajmitch> hi mdz 
<ogra> says the topic
<Mez> ogra: it was 20:00 in the wiki ;)
<Kamion> mdz: apparently it depends whether you believe the topic or the wiki
<ogra> yep
<mdz> heh the time on my mobile is all sorts of confused
<\sh> Mez: forget the wiki ;-)
<mdz> is scott ritchie present?
<ajmitch> I hope it's 22:00, otherwise I'm really late :)
<mdz> \sh: have you been in touch with him?
<dholbach> mdz: YokoZar was his ircnick, irc
<ogra> yep
<Mez> \sh: is that wise ?
<\sh> mdz: I wrote a mail...he didn't answer
<dholbach> i'm for a dog walk, brb
<Kamion> we have certainly had the wine discussion before, either just before or shortly after warty
<Kamion> perhaps somebody could find the discussion in the #ubuntu-meeting archives
<Mez> mdz: /query
<\sh> mdz: but I would like to have his package..actually I used a plain debian/* dir for the latest snapshot and it compiled with gcc-4
<\sh> Kamion: I read it
<ogra> Kamion, sabdfls word was quite clear about that, he wants winehq packages
<Kamion> ah, more like March
<\sh> una momenta....girl is calling
<ogra> Kamion, there was a mail to ubuntu-devel
<Kamion> ogra: I'm not attempting to overrule sabdfl, never fear! I was just making sure the previous discussion had been taken into account
<mdz> hey, mdz is running to the hotel to grab his own laptop, now that he-s actually early for the meeting
<ogra> Kamion, it has 
<Kamion> 2005-03-15
<mdz> repeat your questions when he gets back!
<Mez> lol, mdz, quickly answer my question!
<jbailey> Beware the ides of march?
<\sh> aehm
<\sh> girls
<\sh> i mean I like the idea to be whipped by jane...but
<\sh> now I'm confused
<Mez> \sh have you got the right channel?
<\sh> mez: sure
<ogra> jordi_, how's the leg dude ?
<\sh> I need a decision about whine...
<sabdfl> hi all
<sabdfl> apologies for being late
<ogra> hey sabdfl 
<\sh> g'night mark
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> sabdfl, 22:00 UTC 
<sabdfl> phew
<ogra> everybody thinks he's late *g*
<\sh> u can drink one more ;)
<sabdfl> hic
<\sh> hahaha
<ogra> heh
<\sh> *kippchendreh* ,-)
<mdz> jordi_: thanks
<Mez> sabdfl, or 20:00 if you read the wiki
<Mez>  :d
<\sh> ogra: daniel is not there again...
<jordi_> ogra: the leg is getting better.
<jordi_> Not thanks to elmo!
<jordi_> laters guys, mdz: no problem
<ajmitch> hi sabdfl
<jordi_> mdz: YOU KNOW WHAT
<mdz> jordi_: you may never know
<mdz> jordi_: what life is like with a hitler moustache
<jordi_> mdz: mako just came and we're going to have a swim naked in the sea
<sabdfl> hi ajmitch
<sabdfl> man it's hot in finland
<jordi_> mdz: I will do it for the next conference
<jordi_> mdz: i will DO IT
<\sh> ok..if anybody is having a drink and is online :) 
<\sh> sabdfl: send pics :)
<Mez> mdz: /query :d
<jbailey> We swam naked in the sea in Oslo, perhaps it can be an every other debconf tradition.
<Mez> jbailey - dont send pics of that :D
<\sh> no.i don't want to have pics *shrug*
<sabdfl> nekkid people!
<ogra> lol
<\sh> sabdfl: say: nackige leute :)
<\sh> ok....fun beside :)
<mdz> \sh: photos cannot show how hot it is
<mdz> who submitted the "universe freeze dates" proposal?
<mdz> s/proposal/agenda item/
<\sh> mdz: believe me, I CAN FEEL THE HEAT I'm living somewhere between 4th and 100th floor
<Kamion> (wasn't me, but) - I've been repeatedly explaining to people how UVF benefits stability of universe too, and how it's an extra review step not "you can't do this", etc.
* siretart wants to do the point "transitions in universe" on the agenda. objections?
<Kamion> we did spring it on MOTU folks rather late, though
* \sh agrees with kamion 
<Kamion> "transitions in universe" is not currently on the agenda
<\sh> but some stuff has to be updated :(
* siretart wants to put it (sorry)
<Kamion> \sh: so request exceptions
<\sh> Kamion: will bug u...no problem :)
<ajmitch> Kamion: you mean, we heard about it when it happened? :)
<ogra> ajmitch, yep
<\sh> Kamion: better to say..it's good to have a first class decision..right now it's a mess
<Kamion> ajmitch: it was always on the release schedule; we just hadn't realised that everybody thought universe had some kind of blanket exception from UVF
<jbailey> Kamion: I know I had been under the impression that everything to do with Universe (Freezes, post-release updates, etc) was up to the Master MOTUs.
<Kamion> the reason it worked that way for Hoary was that you guys were just getting started and UVF was too early with respect to that
<ajmitch> Kamion: right, we thought the same would happen for breezy
<mdz> apparently it was ReinhardTartler2
<ogra> i assumed it, since we excluded universe from hoarys UVF
<siretart> mdz: that's me
* Kamion is being nagged to go to bed - night all
<ogra> night Kamion 
<ajmitch> night Kamion 
<siretart> gn8 Kamion!
<\sh> Kamion: ok...now it's fact: universe is UVF and only upstream upgrades (updates I will name only as revision syncs from debian e.g.) have to be approved by 3 ppls of main?
<\sh> s/Kamion/mdz/
<siretart> 3 ppl of main seems a bit overengeneered to me, honestly..
<mdz> I'm more than willing to be flexible about UVF with regard to universe
<dholbach> mdz: i put freeze dates on the agenda, since i wasnt sure about it (and most of the motus as well)
<Kamion> \sh: er, no ...
<\sh> and kamion: sleep well :)
<mdz> so long as we meet release milestones
<Kamion> \sh: approval is currently one of mdz and me; we could extend that for universe
<mdz> but there should be a specific rationale if you want to deviate from the established procedures
<\sh> Kamion: ok..u + mdz..and now off to sleep :)
<dholbach> *nod*
<dholbach> NEW packages will need to be treated differently
<mdz> dholbach: please remember to place your name next to the item
<mdz> as the comments in the wiki say
<\sh> dholbach: NEW p. are treated differently....
<dholbach> mdz: i will, next time
<dholbach> ok then this item is all set
<\sh> dholbach: that's why I don'tlike right now new packages in universe, cause we have too many other things to work on :(
<ogra> \sh++
<mdz> ok, moving on then
<mdz> is Scott Ritchie here yet?
<ajmitch> \sh: you just need to recruit more MOTUs :)
<\sh> ajmitch: we're officially 20
<ogra> mdz, i doubt he will appear
<dholbach> \sh: fixing stuff is excluded from UpstreamVersionFreeze :)
<\sh> more then that
<mdz> I think he needs to be present for this discussion
<ogra> about 30
<\sh> ogra: thx...
<mdz> \sh: if you are in touch with him, please have him contact me directly
<\sh> but u always see only a few 
<mdz> \sh: since we seem to have trouble syncing up for meetings
<ogra> mdz, he didnt show up since some months in the community
<mdz> and this isn't necessarily a tech board issue anyway
<\sh> mdz: I don't be in touch with him..I tried...and that's why I put it on the agenda
<mdz> \sh: so what is the specific issue?
<ogra> changig from debian to winehq packages
<\sh> mdz: wine isn't  compiling doesn't work at all...so I want this stuff fixed for universe
<\sh> and I like to have this stuff in...even if I'm playing maintainer
<mdz> if the question is whether to use Debian's packages or Scott's packages, and the Debian packages don't build while Scott's do, that seems like a no-brainer
<\sh> the other alternative is , kicking it out
<mdz> it is important to us that we have solid wine packages
<ogra> yep
<mdz> and if in your assessment, his packages are of higher quality, we should clearly go in that direction
<\sh> ok..so I need an ++ from u and kamion for an upload
<mdz> ideally we should do so in collaboration with him
<ogra> mdz, the idea was to get scott here today to talk to him about it
<\sh> mdz: i will bug him
<ogra> mdz, thats why we put it on the agenda
<mdz> \sh: go ahead and upload
<\sh> bug actually w8ing for him is no use for us right now...
<mdz> and send him notification about what we are doing
<\sh> did already
<\sh> ogra has a copy
<mdz> you can tell him that a decision has been taken and that we want to work with him on the packages
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-10
<MrLogic> hello everyone
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 12 Jul 06:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 05:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 23:00: Kubuntu | 19 Jul 06:00: Technical Board
<DBO> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 11 Jul 16:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 09:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board
<Hobbsee> DBO: right now, i'm wishing i was in your timezone.
<Hobbsee> 6am tech board will be a nightmare.
<DBO> Hobbsee, well you're welcome to come visit, but uhhh... flint is a bit of a rough town
<Hobbsee> urgh great.
<DBO> Ive had two neighbors shot in the past year
<DBO> ...i mean they have been shot, not that I had them shot..
<Hobbsee> haha...i would hope that you hadnt had them shot!
* Hobbsee will avoid it.
<DBO> figured out what island I went to as a kid
<DBO> Frasure Island
<jjesse> @schedule Detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 11 Jul 16:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 09:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board
<Toadstool> @schedule paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 11 Jul 22:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 11 Jul 23:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 22:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 16:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 23:00: Technical Board
<GNAM> GNAM
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 11 Jul 22:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board
<rikai> ...
<jjesse> @schedule Detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 11 Jul 16:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 09:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board
<Meyer> @schedule Brazil/East
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Brazil/East: 11 Jul 17:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 16:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 10:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 17:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-11
<Seveas> @schedule Amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 11 Jul 22:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board
<imbrandon_> @schedule us/central
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 11 Jul 15:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 14:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 11 Jul 22:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board
* flint flint wonders if a meeting is gonna start...
<flint> Good Morning Ollie!
<flint> ogra, I sent Jonathan a VERY early draft of some docs I was working on.  If you end up with them do not judge me too harshly, they are a DRAFT! :^)
<flint> @schedule dc
<flint> @schedule est
<Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 11 Jul 15:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 14:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 11 Jul 15:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 14:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board
<sharms> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 11 Jul 16:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 09:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board
<P3L|C4N0> @schedule atlanta
<MitchM> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 11 Jul 20:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00: Technical Board
<MitchM> @schedule Colorado
<GNAM> @schedule ROME
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 11 Jul 22:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board
<MitchM> @schedule Mountain
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Canada/Mountain: 11 Jul 14:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 13:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 07:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 14:00: Technical Board
<Sp4rKy> @schedule Paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 11 Jul 22:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 11 Jul 17:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 16:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 10:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 17:00: Technical Board
<ompaul> @now utc
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 11 2006, 18:59:46 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 0 minute
<juantao> meeting is in 57 minutes or now?
<erdalronahi> in 57 minutes
<juantao> thank you.
<erdalronahi> you're welcom
<erdalronahi> e
<erdalronahi> no, you're gone
<sharms> @now utc
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 11 2006, 19:15:53 - Next meeting: Community Council in 44 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<sharms> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 11 2006, 19:53:08 - Current meeting: Community Council in 6 minutes
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: Current meeting: Community Council | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 22:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 16:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 23:00: Technical Board
<juantao_> testing my connection
<Sp4rKy> I'm sorry but i've some things i must do before the CC
<Sp4rKy> I'm Maxence DUnnewind
<Sp4rKy> and i'll come back in 20h10 UTC
<alenitchev> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 11 2006, 20:00:08 - Current meeting: Community Council in 0 minute
<Seveas> Kamion, ping
<Seveas> hi elmo 
<elmo> hi
<nixternal> JoeyStanford how is everything?
<Kamion> yeah, I'm here
<JoeyStanford> Hi Nix!  Good thanks
<JoeyStanford> I figured I'd uncloak for the meeting :-)
<Seveas> Kamion, will we see sabdfl or mako too? 
<Kamion> sabdfl is on holiday
<elmo> mako said he'd make it
<Seveas> hi mako 
<mako> greetings
<elmo> ok, we've got quorum, shall we get started?
<Seveas> mdz, are you around?
<Sp4rKy> i'm back
<Seveas> wb
<elmo> seveas: "Two Ubuntu members have also become Freenode staff" - who are they?
<Seveas> elmo, rob and nalioth
<Seveas> actually, there are 3 now: hedgemage too
<elmo> ok
<mdz> Seveas: I am; am I needed?
<Seveas> mdz, you've put the first item on the agenda
* mako is getting up to speed.. i'm coming straight out of another irc meeting
<mdz> I put that on the agenda before the previous meeting, after talking with mako
<mdz> I assumed it had already been discussed since comments were added to the wiki
<Seveas> at the previous meeting it was moved to this one
<mdz> as you pointed out, this is a rather old proposal
<mdz> but I think the issues it raises are still valid
<mdz> mako was in agreement when we spoke about it
* mako nods
<mako> i'm reading the things posted to the spec
<mdz> I acknowledge that some members of the community are working well with the FreeNode staff
<mdz> but I think that's equally possible elsewhere
<mdz> essentially all of the non-Ubuntu project channels I follow have moved to OFTC
<mako> that's been true for me as well
<Seveas> and why should we follow?
<mako> there are a series of reasons on and alluded to on the specification
<elmo> Seveas: I regularly see the must register to send messages damage hurt users, f.e.
<Seveas> elmo, that is a measure against spam
<Sp4rKy> please, when does the CC start  ?
<mako> Sp4rKy: it's going on now
<Seveas> Sp4rKy, 13 minutes ago
<gnomefreak> Sp4rKy: started
<sharms2> I would say from a users point of view it's very hard to find a irc admin to get help from
<gnomefreak> who has this spec page handy?
<elmo> Seveas: I know what it is, but it regularly bites new users trying to contact others
<mako> Seveas: that's fine, but it seems to be handled different and less inconveniently for users on other networks, including OFTC
<Seveas> "Freenode is technically and politically erratic" is a bunch of FUD instead of concrete arguments
<jenda> Does OFTC require registration to send messages? (Sorry for ignorance)?
<elmo> jenda: no
<Seveas> mako, there's a big difference in size between oftc and freenode
<jenda> thx
<mdz> gnomefreak: it's on the agenda
<Seveas> freenode is much larger and thus a more attractive target
<elmo> Seveas: OFTC recently took on Debian - they can handle us
<gnomefreak> mdz: ty
<mako> Seveas: nobody disagreeing with that, but that is something that we can take advantage of as well
<mdz> gnomefreak: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<gnomefreak> ty
<sivang> I'm also bitten by this, everytime my client disconnects and reconnects, and I send PMs to folks not even noticing they don't receive it.
<Sp4rKy> mako, Seveas gnomefreak k, so what should i do when i'm added to Member candidates for consideration
<Seveas> Sp4rKy, just wait.
<Kamion> Sp4rKy: wait until the proper point in the meeting
<gnomefreak> Sp4rKy: wait till Seveas calls you
<Sp4rKy> k
<Sp4rKy> thx
<mdz> I'm happy with how Debian has turned out on  OFTC
<elmo> bye
<Seveas> I'm happy with how Ubuntu turned out on Freenode
<Seveas> It's settled and working very nice
<elmo> Debian's OFTC migration even provides us with a working example of how to do it
<Seveas> moving would disrupt that a lot
* nixternal agrees with Seveas as there seems to be a lot of people settled in
<gnomefreak> maybe just me but i have seen alot of people from OTFC spamming in #ubuntu for the last few weeks  is this something we have to look foward to if we move?
<elmo> Seveas: that's your opinion, and it's great, but you're blithely ignoring problems like the must register stuff which are real problems and I see effect different people every week
<jenda> I'll second that. Imagine the confusion of moving the thousands of people.
<mdz> gnomefreak: "people from OFTC"?
<elmo> jenda: it's not  hard, as I said, Debian did it
<Kamion> gnomefreak: could you elaborate on that statement please?
<mdz> jenda: Debian moved more people than we did
<Seveas> elmo, I'm not ignoring that, I'm just seeing that differently
<jenda> Freenode doesn't require registration - #ubuntu does.
<jenda> OK
<Seveas> jenda, no, freenode does - for pm's
<mako> Seveas: at the conference we had people unable to connect for msot of hte first day
<sivang> we could also provide shipped IRC clients with config for OFTC for that matter
<mako> Seveas: eventually, i got ahold of lilo and eventually he was able to fix it
* JoeyStanford notices that OFTC appears to be more community oriented and might fit better simply on that basis with Ubuntu than Freenode.  Noting of course he has not experienced any problems with Freenode.
<nixternal> which i like the registration, as it stops people from ghosting nicknames as well
* jenda mumbles about +6
<mdz> Seveas: that happens pretty much every time we have a conference
<erdalronahi> shipped IRC clients are a good idea
<mako> nixternal: there are registered nicks on oftc as well
<Seveas> mako, why do you think limiting connections is a bad idea?
<Kamion> yeah, it's been happening since Oxford in mid-2004
<nixternal> mako: thank you for the clarification... ;)
<mako> Seveas: it's not that i think it's a bad idea
<Seveas> mdz, for paris that was handled because someone (me) actually poked freenode staff in time
<mako> Seveas: but when we have to spend half a day being blocked as a result, it's a major inconveience
<gnomefreak> mdz: yes there have beena  few bot bombs (i guess is what the name for them is) is has OFTC before it shows the user name and in purple comming in the channel and just saying things like f ubuntu bleh bleh bleh
<elmo> Seveas: and for all your claims of close ties, it still takes at least half a day to sort out ... each time...
<Kamion> gnomefreak: your inference that it's "people from OFTC" seems weak at best
<mdz> gnomefreak: I don't think you can take that as an indication that those people represent OFTC
<Seveas> elmo, for paris it took 5 minutes.
<Amaranth> this wasn't on the calendar :/
<Seveas> for other conferences: no one took the trouble to poke freenode staff
<mako> Seveas: it took 6 hours from the time i first messaged the only staff member online
<Seveas> IN TIME
<elmo> Seveas: dude.  your reality does not match our reality
<mako> Seveas: there were apparently some technical problem that kept the fix from taking hold
<Seveas> elmo, my reality is that freenode works really well for #ubuntu and related channels and that none of the active community want to move
<elmo> Seveas: sigh.  look, I'm talking about a very specific example.   you're claiming that freenode was working for UDSP "on time".  we were there.  it wasn't.
<mdz> Seveas: I think some of the people participating in this meeting qualify as active community ;-)
<Seveas> mdz, I mean #ubuntu community
<Kamion> I think #ubuntu-devel matters too
<mako> oftc is run by a democratically elected board, they have a great track record for technical reliability and responsiveness, they have recently started hosting debian which is both similar in size and overlap.. they also seem to be a less annoying/confusing to new users in regards to msgs
<mdz> Seveas: I expect many of them neither know nor care which IRC network they use
<Kamion> I don't particularly want to turn this into a fight between #ubuntu and #ubuntu-devel though
<Seveas> elmo, it may have failed later (heard that from lilo), but he was working on that. It worked immediately after I asked him though
<nixternal> brief opinion if i may do so....if there are issues with freenode, why not take them up the staff and see if they can fix the issues to supply ubuntu with what it needs..just like a new user with ubuntu, we want to know their issues, instead of them just leaving for something else
<mako> freenode is not oppressively bad.. but i think there's a fair use that oftc might be a better match
<nixternal> and if it doesn't get fixed/resolved, then look at moving elsewhere (oftc) if warranted?
<mako> mdz: except perhaps, when their private msgs don't work :)
* nixternal is keeping an open mind, as it does't matter where i hang out, as long as it is Ubuntu!!! ;)
<sivang> mako: is there some protection against someone else taking your nick ? do they support any sort of registration ?
<mako> sivang: of course
<elmo> sivang: yes, they have services
<mdz> sivang: it works exactly the same way
<mako> sivang: it would be indistinguishable
<sivang> mdz, elmo, mako : I'm sold :-)
<Seveas> mako, freenode is increasingly good to us. In case of channel problems we have close ties to active staff. For OFTC that may eventually work too, but don't fix if it ain't broken
<JoeyStanford> Are there any assurances that OFTC will be around for the long haul?
<Seveas> JoeyStanford, yes
<mako> Seveas: you also need to recognize that there is now a history of strange behavior in relation to canonical channels by the (undemocratically elected) freenode staff
<Seveas> mako, I do, but #canonical != #ubuntu
<mdz> mako: that's not a CC issue though
<Amaranth> debian had it easy, they have irc.debian.org
<mako> a history of erratic behavior by the people running the network is something working keeping in mind
<Seveas> mako, lilo will in the short term be much less visible on the network if you're concerned about that 
<Kamion> Amaranth: (that's something we can and should introduce)
<mako> i really don't have a grudge against lilo.. he's been very helpful to me every time i've talked to him
<gnomefreak> i like that idea alot
<mdz> Amaranth: and we have irc.ubuntu.com
<Amaranth> Kamion: But by default people have been getting connected to "irc.freenode.net", no?
<mdz> Amaranth: by default (at least in xchat) they use "Ubuntu Servers"
<JoeyStanford> FWIW: We always state that "Debian is the rock that Ubuntu is built on."  If the Debian community found OFTC good enough to move, OFTC operates in a similar manner as Ubuntu does, and many other groups have already migrated, it would seem to me that there is sufficient justifcation for us to move as well.
<LaserJock> mdz: which is irc.freenode.net, no?
<mdz> LaserJock: yes, but easily changed
<LaserJock> of course, just wondered
<mdz> it's separate from the FreeNode server profile
<LaserJock> right
<Amaranth> mdz: but warty, hoary, breezy, and dapper users are still connecting to irc.freenode.net
<Seveas> as they should be...
<Amaranth> mdz: so you'd have to manually tell them to move
<mdz> Amaranth: warty is EOL, and the others can be changed via -updates
<Amaranth> hmm, i thought that stuff got copied into ~/.xchat2/ if you changed something
<Kamion> it's also easy to put "channel has moved" notices up
<juantao_> pardon, might I speak?
<Kamion> as elmo said, Debian have been through all this
<Seveas> juantao_, sure
<juantao_> the meeting is 30 minutes old and my lunch break is half over, any chance we can move along to other items?
<Amaranth> Kamion: hehe, freenode will close the channel
<Seveas> juantao_, not before this is resolved
<Kamion> Amaranth: *shrug* lasts long enough
<juantao_> k
<mdz> I don't think that concerns about the transition should be a consideration here; as stated, Debian made this transition without much trouble at all
* mako nods
<Amaranth> ok, forget that part for now
<Kamion> it seems entirely political, not technical
<Seveas> mdz, apart from the /msg-needs-registration and lilo-annoyance, are there any reasons to move?
<Kamion> (as far as implementation goes)
<sharms2> lack of help from ops for regular users
<mako> Kamion: well, the problem we have now is political, the reasons to move are both
<mdz> Seveas: yes, another concrete reason already raised was the repeated problems we have at conferences
<Amaranth> sharms2: How does moving to another network fix that?
<Kamion> mako: right, I realised that after speaking and tried to clarify in the parenthesis
<elmo> Seveas: and the behaviour of staff in #canonical
<Seveas> mdz, and I already stated the solution to that too
<Seveas> elmo, #canonical != #ubuntu
<Kamion> that doesn't stop it mattering
<elmo> Seveas: dude, seriously are you reading what people write?
<mdz> Seveas: you haven't acknowledged that the "solution" you proposed is exactly what we did in Paris, and it *didn't work*
<elmo> seveas: as mako already pointed out, it doesn't matter that #canonical != #ubuntu, it demonstrates a problem with how the staff behave, and how they behave affects _all_ channels including #ubuntu
<Amaranth> Interesting, I didn't know a private, password protected channel was allowed on freenode.
<mdz> it seriously disrupted the event (again)
<Seveas> mdz, due to technical problems as has been said - do you think OFTC will be problem free>
<Seveas> elmo, I've never seen staff misbehave in any ubuntu channel so far
<mdz> Seveas: no, but in my experience it has fewer problems
<mdz> mako's point about governance is also valid
<Seveas> mdz, that's just a matter of size...
<elmo> Seveas: ... so are you saying we're making it up, or do our experiences just not count or what?
<mako> Seveas: i've been on both networks simultaneously for 3 years now
<sryan> Why not move to EFnet? :)
<Seveas> mdz, that'll change - HedgeMage is working on getting people from projects on the board
<mako> Seveas: and my experience has been that things have been easier and more quickly fixed on oftc
<mdz> my experience is similar to mako's
<mdz> and additionally I'm tired of having to keep track of two networks ;-)
<Seveas> OFTC has also had less bot attacks and other annoying losers trying to keep staff over-busy
<jenda> mdz: BTW, the move would bring that burden upon many of us.
<Kamion> Amaranth: it is; but we've had problems with staff not respecting privacy
<mako> i have never attempted to move a project from OFTC to freenode
<mako> but i've seen a very steady stream of project move
<mako> culminating with debian recently
<Amaranth> mdz: I'm already in 3 networks, I really don't want a 4th.
<mako> it's basically only GNU projects and Ubuntu that are left here that i've involved with
<mako> Amaranth: i'm on 4, we learn to deal :)
<Seveas> mako: gentoo, php, django - to name a few that are here...
<Amaranth> everyone is on freenode ;)
<mdz> mako: is freenode a matter of GNU policy, or just status quo?
<mako> mdz: not sure
<elmo> Seveas: yeah, because we have so much cross pollination with gentoo, compared to, err, Debian
<mdz> yes, Debian alone is a pretty compelling reason
<Seveas> elmo, as a matter of fact #ubuntu and #debian don't have that much overlap
<Amaranth> #python is on freenode too, although i think they have it on oftc too
<elmo> Seveas: argh, dude, Ubuntu is not just #ubuntu
<mako> Seveas: you should look at the governance information for oftc
<mako> Seveas: it's pretty compelling
<mjg59> Seveas: Little overlap between user channels is hardly surprising
<Seveas> elmo, no, but moving would be the hardest for #ubuntu with 800+ users
<elmo> Seveas: #ubuntu-devel is just as important a part of Ubuntu
<mako> Seveas: their entire staff/board is democratically election and dispute resolution goes through a democratic channel
* JoeyStanford wonders about irc.ubuntu.com hosted by OFTC
<sivang> mako: similar to the CC sort of
<elmo> Seveas: no.  it would not be.  that is a straw man.  as you've been told multiple times.  Debian migrated larger channels and it was painless
<jenda> JoeyStanford: that would probably be a forward, just like irc.debian,org
<mako> sivang: it's better than us! :)
<Seveas> elmo, at the time #debian moved. #ubuntu already was bigger
<mako> Seveas: more or less the the same
<Seveas> ~100 users
<mako> Seveas: in any case, nobody is suggesting doing this if OFTC couldn't handle it
<jenda> Is that really that important?
<Kamion> ~100 users> that would be 12% then, basically statistical noise at that point
<Kamion> if you can migrate a 700-user channel, you can migrate an 800-user channel
<sivang> mako: heh
<Amaranth> If you're going to do it it has to be all at once for basically everything but #ubuntu.
<Amaranth> Otherwise it gets confusing.
<elmo> please, let's not discuss migration strategies
<sivang> maybe we can have some folks go to talk to them, tell them we're interested, lay out what we require and see if it can be provided before doing the move?
<Amaranth> elmo: There is nothing else to discuss.
<mako> you can also look at the http://www.oftc.net/oftc/Constitution
<mako> it's great :)
<elmo> Amaranth: of course there is.  whether we should or not
<nixternal> i know when i was an op for ETG years ago, one of my channels was on 2 networks, and we utilized a bot to combine them until everyone moved over..the bot would link the 2 channels on the same network..this may also limit the issues with a transfer
<Amaranth> elmo: It's the same argument back and forth though, perhaps it's time for a vote?
<Amaranth> nixternal: #python had one of those too for talking to oftc users
<elmo> let's not have a vote, but I would like to hear from anyone other than Seveas who is -1 on this
<elmo> (I'm not discounting Seveas, it's just his vote is pretty damn obvious at this stage)
<Amaranth> Well, I think it's a waste of time.
<Seveas> elmo, you've seen last week when there were many more others present
<DBO> I dont think we should move
<mako> that's right, i'm not at all comfortable voting on this
<elmo> DBO: why?
<Amaranth> Other than that, whatever you decide.
<Seveas> everybody but the CC (who didn't say much then) was against
<DBO> I deal with needy users every day in #ubuntu, I put in maybe 60 hours a week during the non-summer months, and they are confused enough
<mjg59> DBO: How are they getting to #ubuntu?
<nixternal> what about creating a poll for members/teams/users to vote also, as i think their opinions on something this great should be looked at
<mako> Seveas: that's not true, some people asked questions and few people offered a strong opniion either way
<sharms2> if irc.ubuntu.com forwards to oftc, how would that confuse anyone?
<Seveas> mako, that's not what I saw last week...
<DBO> mjg59, most of them automatic, lots are using irssi, or whatever when their x server is broke
<elmo> Seveas: sorry, but my recollection matches makos
<Amaranth> confusing users is still a migration issue
* jenda = -1 on moving
<mjg59> DBO: Right. So if the default config is to hit irc.ubuntu.com, then changing will change nothing for them
<elmo> Seveas: but we can go over the logs later
<elmo> jenda: again, why?
<elmo> sorry, let me be clearer
<mako> Seveas: you can't ask me to come up with an opinion based on what *you* saw last week
<elmo> let's not have a vote, but I would like to hear from anyone other than Seveas who is -1 on this _and why_
<mako> Seveas: i've read what you've put on the wiki and acknowledge your points
* JoeyStanford = +1 on the move
<mako> i also acknowledge Amaranth's point that the vast majority of people simply won't care
<Kamion> I would also like us to consider moving Ubuntu development channels even if the user channels don't move
<DBO> The move strikes me as a short term solution to a long term issue.  Anywhere we go there will be server issues, botter issues, DCC idiots
<Kamion> because, honestly, I don't think it matters much for most ordinary users whether the development channels are on the same network
<uniq> from reading on oftc.net is looks very ubuntuish. democratic and nice.
<elmo> Kamion: good point
<jenda> If it ain't broken don't fix it approach: I don't think we should move only for political reasons, and the technical ones seem overlookable.
<nixternal> i am +1/-1 on it, 50/50, as i believe getting information from current users of freenode in the #ubuntu related channels, should be able to voice an opinion for something this large of an ordeal
<DBO> Kamion, I agree with that
<mako> we know how to a transition, i suspect we could do it painlessly, without confusing, and withough the vast vast number of users even noticing
<jenda> OTOH, I'm not that far from 'not caring' either: except I'm afraid we might lose some people, who won't want to move.
<nixternal> truthfully, no matter where the servers are for me, i am still going to help Ubuntu...however my experience here has been very good, as I have had no problems with anybody or anyone
<sivang> mako: we just need to make sure we have cloaks, which I kind'of got used to, but probably they have nice rules about that as well.
<mako> jenda: there is already a small group in #ubuntu on OFTC
<JoeyStanford> Nixternal: Same here
<mako> jenda: i suspect a small group would stay onf reenode if we moved
<mjg59> mako: It's likely that the channel would be closed
<nalioth> apologies for my tardiness, but is there a reason for moving?
<mako> mjg59: ah
<jenda> Most probably true.
<mjg59> mako: Though that doesn't seem to have happened to #debian, so
<mako> nalioth: there is a relatively long series of reasons, please read the log
<nealmcb> I tend to agree with nixternal also.
<mako> sivang: there are cloaks and we could insure we had them on oftc
<nixternal> i can tell you this though, no matter where Ubuntu goes, I think the idiots who cause trouble on IRC servers, script kiddies mostly, i think will follow us because of how popular we are, and that is an easy way for them to express their jealousy
<sharms2> Just because something is ok now, doesn't mean you shouldnt plan for the future.
<mako> Seveas: here's what i'm kind of worried about
<mako> this debate sort of simmered in debian for years
<Seveas> nixternal, most bot attacks target freenode because of its size, not ubuntu because of its popularity
<jenda> Another thing is... aren't cloaks a tidbit elitist?
<Kamion> nixternal: I reiterate my suggestion of moving development channels regardless; the numbers there are far less and the people involved are much easier to inform
<ompaul> jenda, they protect users from ddos 
* jenda does like his cloak, though :)
<elmo> ok, I don't think we're getting very far with this, can I make a suggestion:
<sivang> mako: cool, that's good.
<nixternal> and i understand that, but it will happen no matter which server is used..thats what i was tyring to get at
<mako> and it was clear to me that there was a lot of compatibilty between philosophy, decision-making, power, quick responses, overlap, etc. but nobody really wanted to rock the boat so thing really happened
<jenda> ompaul: I meant exclusive member cloaks.
<elmo>  (1) we defer this to the next meeting, sabdfl is going to want to have a say in this, so we can't make any final decisions today anyway.  AND
<nealmcb> Kamion: moving just some channels complicates the treatment of irc.ubuntu.com
<mako> elmo: that's right
<elmo> (2) both sides draw up pages on the wiki with their view of pros and cons
<Kamion> nealmcb: that's true, but developers can cope
<ogra> elmo, +1
<elmo> (3) and someone add the kamion-alternative to the wiki as a suggested fall back
<jenda> agreed
<nixternal> great point Kamion, but like i said, i am neither yay or nay on it, i just would like to see a larger community voice on the situation then what is currently being voiced...im with Ubuntu no matter where it's at ;)
<ompaul> elmo on that point  +1
<mdz> elmo: (2) has already been done, though I suppose they could be expanded a bit
<gnomefreak> elmo: +1
<mako> sounds good :)
<elmo> mdz: the pro-move side could really be better documented, but yeah
<nixternal> elmo: +1
<jenda> 50 minutes :D
<Kamion> elmo: a LOT better documented
<jenda> +1
<mdz> mako: most of your ideas are missing from the page; could you add them?
<Kamion> from the position of somebody who mostly has trouble caring but who probably leans marginally towards pro-moving, it's pretty weak
<nixternal> my biggest concern is the newer users of irc...if you can get them to autoconnect wonderful!!!
* gnomefreak is mainly concered with how stable are thier servers
* jenda still doesn't see the reasons, so it would be great if they were on the wiki.
<elmo> I'll also try and add to the pro one, once mako is done, FWIW
<mako> mdz: yes!
<mdz> thanks
<mako> great
<Kamion> can we sort out irc.ubuntu.com and default clients and stuff ASAP no matter what?
<elmo> we should also document the migration stuff, etc.
<elmo> Kamion: domain exists, I've filed a bug in LP on all clients
<mako> Seveas: thanks for your input though, and for being patient
<Kamion> that can and should be done independently of the outcome of this
<Kamion> elmo: cool, thanks
<mako> Seveas: lets try to move forward constructively
<Seveas> mako, (and others): likewise
<elmo> ok.  so.  let's move on?
<Seveas> let's move on for now
<mako> great
<mako> new IRC ops
<mako> DBO, who we have already met briefly
<DBO> =)
<mako> and imbrandon
<mako> DBO: want to do a quick introduction?
<Seveas> next is less discussion: DBO is a very active #ubuntu helper and imbrandon is already op in #kubuntu - I would like them to reinforce the team
<gnomefreak> +1 on both of them
<mako> Seveas: how are you doing in terms of active staff?
<Seveas> gnomefreak, you don't vote -- the CC does
<gnomefreak> oops
<nixternal> lol
<mako> Seveas: is there an op list online somewhere?
<Seveas> mako, those two would be useful additions, some of the ops have become less active
<Seveas> mako, on the wiki
<Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCOperators
<mako> ah, that's what i was looking for
<mako> thanks
* nixternal lets it be known that i am always online here, and is available if needed in the future
<mako> Seveas: well, we if you want to ask some folks on that list to retire, that might be good
<mako> but in any case
<Amaranth> oop, i don't have a wiki page anymore
<mako> does anyone have anything testimonials, positive or negative (can be private if absolutely necessary) about either DBO or imbrandon?
<ompaul> mako, I'll vouch for DBO as very good, and very useful
* mako nods ompaul 
<DBO> I did ask Madpilot to come today, but he was otherwise detained
<nixternal> imbrandon is a good op, as we work together quite a bit
* Seveas gives both his +1
<uniq> mako: imbrandon is very helpfull and a good operator in #kubuntu.
<Seveas> err.. s#+1#\o/#
<nixternal> +1 uniq
<Seveas> DBO is very helpful in #ubuntu and entertaining in -offtopic - both are useful things
<nalioth> DBO and imbrandon will make fine ops
<gnomefreak> agreed
<Seveas> but most important: both DBO and imbrandon have a good dose of common sense
<FunnyLookinHat> I found DBO to be very helpful as well.  He is extremely patient and works well to help users understand rather than just telling them what to do.
* jenda nudges about signing the CoC...?
<Amaranth> While we're on this topic, are any of the developers in that list ever actually in #ubuntu anymore?
<gnomefreak> Amaranth: i see a few ive never seen dont know who they are either
<mako> Amaranth: i think its fair to say that most of the people from the first round are not active there
<mako> and most of the core-devs are from that group
<mako> in any case
<mako> i'm happy with both imbrandon and DBO on those recommendations on a quick review of their recent activity
<mako> Kamion, elmo: ?
<LaserJock> crimsun is often i n #ubuntu isn't he?
<Seveas> yes
<ompaul> LaserJock, yes 
<nalioth> crimsun is everywhere
<nixternal> crimsun is everywhere
<nixternal> lol
<mako> heh
<sivang> and he also fires Molecules at other ones :)
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: yes
<Kamion> doesn't seem to be any opposition to those ops, so I'm happy to take the recommendations of those here
<elmo> wow, #ubuntu logs do bag things to galeon
<gnomefreak> thom i never see and fooishbar
<Kamion> DBO: what's your launchpad id?
<Seveas> gnomefreak, they're not in chanservs access list - I'll update the wikipage
<gnomefreak> ok
<Kamion> Daniel's more or less inactive Ubuntu-wise; Thom has been around more lately but I doubt he cares about #ubuntu ops any more
<jenda> elmo: tail does bad things to #ubuntu logs ;)
<DBO> Kamion, my current id is jasonsmith5, but due to a technical glitch (foobar gpg) been having issues with the CoC signing.  I will however sign as soon as I can fix that (or grab antoher person for help)
<gnomefreak> also havent seen carlk in ages
<ompaul> Kamion, I'll walk him though it
<DBO> Kamion, scratch that, I mean Jassmith
<Seveas> gnomefreak, I've seen him recently
<gnomefreak> k
<elmo> anyway, both fine by me
<Kamion> DBO: ok, thanks
<Kamion> ok, we have a lot of locoteams to cover
<Seveas> -ChanServ- [DBO]  has been added to the access list for #ubuntu with level [10] 
<Seveas> -ChanServ- [imbrandon]  has been added to the access list for #ubuntu with level [10] 
<Kamion> are any of the locoteam representatives here? I realise it's been a long haul so far
<Seveas> -ChanServ- [DBO]  has been added to the access list for #ubuntu-offtopic with level [10] 
<mako> yikes!
* JoeyStanford is here 
* sharms2 is here
* nixternal is here
* nixternal is Chicago
<mako> JoeyStanford: please go ahead and introduce your team and its activities
<nealmcb> Three of us are here from Colorado
<JoeyStanford> Greetings.
<JoeyStanford>  Thank you for allowing us a few minutes of your time today.  My name is Joey Stanford and I would like to 
<JoeyStanford> introduce the Colorado Local Community Team. Our wiki entry is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColoradoTeam  (note the 
<JoeyStanford> photos!!). 
* JoeyStanford appologizes for the format. He's at a client in California
<erdalronahi> erdalronahi is from ubuntu-ku and also here
<JoeyStanford> The Colorado Local Community Team (aka CoLoCo) advocates the use of Open Source software and Ubuntu Linux in the State 
<JoeyStanford> of Colorado. This is done through CD Distribution, Team expansion, user-base support, and outreach programs.
<JoeyStanford> The Colorado 
<JoeyStanford> Local Community Team is not meant to replace our local LUGS but rather enhance their overall experience by having a 
<JoeyStanford> dedicated place to discuss, contribute, and gain support from local Ubuntu users. 
<JoeyStanford> I am the current Team Leader and Neal McBurnett (who is here today) is the Deputy Team Leader.
<mako> if they have already, having something typed and up and prepared for pasting will make you friends :)
* mako nods to nealmcb 
<JoeyStanford> What We Do: 1) Educate the public about Ubuntu, 2) Supply Ubuntu (CDs & CD images), 3) Support Ubuntu Locally, 4) 
<JoeyStanford> Conduct outreach programs via local schools
<JoeyStanford> Our membership, at last count, numbers 35 people although I must admit we 
<JoeyStanford> have not yet been able to get all of them to register on launchpad or our mailing list.  
<JoeyStanford> As part of our support program we have been actively participating in local LUG lists.
<JoeyStanford> We have IT professionals, 
<JoeyStanford> hobbyists, teachers, and students in our ranks. 
<JoeyStanford> In 2006 we are planning (and executing) to leverage the educational 
<JoeyStanford> professionals to provide a level of outreach into our schools.  
<JoeyStanford> 
<JoeyStanford> One of our members, Paul Casey, has done a fantastic job at a local university.  He has converted the entire computer 
<JoeyStanford> lab and to a large extent, the entire computer program, over to Ubuntu. Ubuntu is on every lab machine. Almost all 
<JoeyStanford> courses are taught using Ubuntu including graphics design, publishing, programming, and basic computer skills.
<JoeyStanford> 
<JoeyStanford> We've had some interesting events since we started. Our Dapper Release party was a great success and we signed up a few 
<JoeyStanford> new members.  My laptop nearly melted due to the continued burning of ISOs. :-)
<JoeyStanford> 
<JoeyStanford> Through the mailing list, irc channel, and our physical parties we've been able to provide both generalized and specific 
<JoeyStanford> support of Ubuntu to our community. This has resulted in a suggestion for Matthew East:  
<JoeyStanford> https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bug/51382
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51382 in ubuntu-website "Suggestion: LoCo Teams to Free Support Page" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  
<elmo> holy cow, longest intro EVAR
<JoeyStanford> We have some additional speaking engagements lined up as well as a big, more organized, team parties later this year. We 
<JoeyStanford> were targeting the Sept/Oct time frame and may roll this into the Eft Release Party and/or the Free Software Day 
<JoeyStanford> celebration.
<mako> yeah, a bit much perhaps :)
<JoeyStanford> All in all, we've been having a great time and wanted to share our excitement with the Council.  This concludes our 
<JoeyStanford> formal presentation.  We would like to end with a formal solicitation to the council for recognizing our team as an 
<JoeyStanford> official local team. We would very much welcome additional ideas on how to become even more successful as well as 
<JoeyStanford> meeting any missed criteria for being an officially sanctioned Local Community Team. Thank you!!!!
* JoeyStanford done!
<nealmcb> I'm Neal McBurnett: https://launchpad.net/people/nealmcb and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NealMcBurnett
* nixternal applauds
<nealmcb> He said it all
<mako> i think you guys should be able to definitely modify the colorado flag to include an ubuntu logo
<nealmcb> :-)
<mako> or at least two thirds of one
* JoeyStanford already has a design concepty for Loco t-shirts :-)
<mako> great
<mako> well, you said a lot.. i have no questions.. thanks for your work so far and for showing up
<mako> it's pretty inspirational
<mako> JoeyStanford: welcome!
<mako> also nealmcb 
<mako> sharms2?
<sharms2> I mistyped, I am later in agenda
<mako> ah, ok
<nealmcb> You all provide a great platform to rally around, with great community feel.
<mako> nixternal, chitown!
<elmo> yeah, what mako said
<nixternal> After a performance like that by JoeyStanford, there isn't much for me to add. Ubuntu Chicago is doing the same, just in the Chicago land are, and I have had the assistance of JoeyStanford with getting my team up and running.
<nixternal> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-chicago
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChicagoTeam
<nixternal> my members aren't always on irc, and are currently busy
<mako> also a nice website
<nixternal> but, we have come to our first agenda which is our first meeting "The Taste of Ubuntu" in 2 weeks
<nixternal> thanks mako
<nixternal> we have 30+ already showing up for our first meeting, and we are planning "Chicago Days" where we will be spending a day downtown advocating and spreading ubuntu
<mako> nixternal: tell Vince Vierra he has a great name :)
<nixternal> we are currently trying to get a mailing list up and running and haven't had much success with that as the responses are null
<nixternal> will do mako
<nixternal> i got in touch with Ubuntu hosting,a nd we will be getting a small site via them next week
<nixternal> i am getting/trying to get all of the members to join launchpad and sign the CoC
<mako> nixternal: awesome :)
<nixternal> i have a great group of guys and gals, and their determination and dedication is endless
<DBO> mako, purging gpg got it to start making keys again, CoC is signed =)
<mako> DBO: great
<mako> awesome
<mako> nixternal: thanks for your hard work on that 
<nixternal> we also have a couple of big timers who are providing us hardware for demos coming up
<JoeyStanford> Fantastic news Nix
<nixternal> i appreciate it mako, as we really enjoy doing it
<mako> you should feel free to keep places like sounder up to date on your actions
<nixternal> we even have a LUG that is interested in our work, and they happen to be on OFTC ;)
<nixternal> will do mako
<nixternal> that's about it for chicago
<mako> especially successful stuff you think might other groups might like to learn from or emulate
<nixternal> we are doing Ubuntu Chicago style as they all say ;)
<JoeyStanford> nix will post the dates for the Chigago Days festival? I'll try to fly in.
<nixternal> i can do that JoeyStanford when they become available
<JoeyStanford> thx
<nixternal> i will let everyone know
<nixternal> thanks to you all for the support, as we wouldn't be able to do this w/o the community
<nixternal> thanks to the CC for your time and consideration as well
<mako> the Ubuntu Chicago Manueal of Style
<LaserJock> lol
<nixternal> hehe
<mako> thanks guys!
<mako> alright
<nixternal> thank you mako
<mako> erdalronahi: you're up!
<erdalronahi> Hi,
<erdalronahi> We are a very small team trying to promote Linux in Kurdish. Ubuntu is the first Kurdish Linux, due to Rosetta. Rosetta made translation easy for us. But since we started from zero, there is still a long way to go.
<erdalronahi> We have produced a Kurdish Ubuntu-Live-CD, with all the langpacks on the CD.
<erdalronahi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu-ku
<erdalronahi> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-ku
<erdalronahi> We'd like to become an official team.
<mako> wow!
<erdalronahi> that's it, any questions?
<erdalronahi> :)
<nixternal> hehe
<mako> erdalronahi: maybe you can tell us a little about kurdish :)
<erdalronahi> We have not such an elaborate speech
<erdalronahi> Of course,
<jenda> Yes ;) Could there be an english wiki about the team?
<erdalronahi> yes,
<mako> was there an existing gnome translation before?
<erdalronahi> no
<erdalronahi> we did it
<jenda> BTW - which part of Kurdistan are you based in?
<erdalronahi> we started it, 
<erdalronahi> mostly the north 
<erdalronahi> that is Turkey
<erdalronahi> but I am in Europe
<jenda> I see.
<erdalronahi> one is from Iran
<jenda> Would that be freddyubuntu?
<nealmcb> very exciting - congrats, folks!
<erdalronahi> Kurdish is spoken by ~25 million people
<erdalronahi> but forbidden almost everywhere
<jenda> interesting.
<erdalronahi> just in Iraq it is changing now
<mako> erdalronahi: arent' central and southern kurdish very different?
<erdalronahi> but that's just a small fraction
<erdalronahi> yes
<erdalronahi> quite different
<jenda> So I heard. Any chance in Turkey?
<jenda> </OT> :)
<mako> erdalronahi: can one translation cover both?
<erdalronahi> well, ours should be understandable, but 
<erdalronahi> no
<mako> erdalronahi: also, is kurdish written in non-latin scripts?
<erdalronahi> not really
<mako> erdalronahi: which kurdish are you translating into?
<erdalronahi> yes, especially central Kurdish in arabic script
<erdalronahi> northern
<erdalronahi> in latin
<erdalronahi> script
<erdalronahi> Windows will be translated into the other big dialect
<jenda> How many people are working on this?
<erdalronahi> Central Kurdish with arabic script
<mako> erdalronahi: can you do machine translation?
<erdalronahi> at the moment about half a dozen steadily
<erdalronahi> from one script to the other?
<erdalronahi> or from English, what do you mean?
<jenda> Which group (Central/Arabic vs. Northern/Latin) is more numerous?
<mako> erdalronahi: you might be interested in talking to danilo segan who helps maintain translations in both latin and cyrillic serbian
<erdalronahi> Northern
<jenda> half a dozen ;) Congrats. It's a lot of work.
<erdalronahi> but the problem is, because it's forbidden everywhere
<erdalronahi> there is no formal education, 
<erdalronahi> no standardization
<jenda> OK
<erdalronahi> and people from different regions 
<erdalronahi> yes, thanks
<erdalronahi> what was that with machine translation?
<erdalronahi> It is possible to convert the alphabets into one another
<erdalronahi> mako, was that the question
<erdalronahi> ?
<nealmcb> do you have contacts in the central/arabic community?
<erdalronahi> little
<mako> elmo: yes
<erdalronahi> there is vrtually no existing free software project
<mako> sorry
<mako> erdalronahi: yes, that was the question
<erdalronahi> I have written scripts for that
<mako> great :)
<mako> erdalronahi: you might want to send a mail or talk on IRC with danilo
<erdalronahi> yes, thanks
<mako> erdalronahi: he has a lot of software to do similar things that people in other language have been using
<erdalronahi> we had similar issues on the wikipedia
* mako nods
<mako> erdalronahi: well it's great to have you on board
<erdalronahi> to convert articles automatically
<erdalronahi> thanks a lot, 
<erdalronahi> we especially like the attitude of Ubuntu
<mako> i'm thrilled you're going to make ubuntu the first kurdish language distribution :)
<erdalronahi> that makes it easy for weak groups like ours
<erdalronahi> it is already, it is usable
<erdalronahi> in Kurdish
<nealmcb> strong-hearted groups like yours!!
<mako> erdalronahi: do you have screenshots?
<erdalronahi> Ubuntu has Kurdish firefox before Mozilla has
<erdalronahi> :)
<jenda> wow ;)
<mako> erdalronahi: i have a few kurdish friends here, i'll show them :)
<erdalronahi> http://linux.ferheng.org/linux.html
<mako> erdalronahi: they'll probably be impressed :)
<erdalronahi> screenshots
<jenda> amazing LoCo work, really. I'm saving this log for the Czech LoCo to see.
<erdalronahi> mako, where is "here"?
<nealmcb> General question: are you now considering these locos to be "official", whatever that really means?
<erdalronahi> yes, I have a question with that
<erdalronahi> we registered www.ubuntu-ku.org
<erdalronahi> later I was told that I shouldn't
<erdalronahi> the owner must be Canonical
<elmo> erdalronahi: how long have you guys been active?
<erdalronahi> since warty
<erdalronahi> breezy had a Kurdish locale, but no translations
<erdalronahi> Dapper has Keyboards and translations
<mako> erdalronahi: boston
<mako> awesome :)
<erdalronahi> probably from the south then? they are invited to help
<nixternal> mako: the salty dog?
<erdalronahi> We have a wish, too, 
<erdalronahi> maybe not the place here,
<erdalronahi> but in Turkey and Iran there are lots of Winmodems around
<erdalronahi> I know that has been discussed, 
* mako nods
<mako> in the interest of time, we should really move on
<elmo> yes ;)
<erdalronahi> yes,
<mako> but thanks erdalronahi for your work and for introducing it here
<mako> great stuff
<erdalronahi> thank you for your time
<mako> any other locos?
<mako> i am going to turn into a pumpkin in half an hour
<nealmcb> So are we official now?
<Seveas> nealmcb, yes
<nealmcb> :-)
<nixternal> thank you mako, thank you CC!!!
* JoeyStanford points out that Colorado is the first Official USA LoCo Team
<mako> any other locos? going twice
<mako> JoeyStanford: no way :)
* JoeyStanford lol
* nixternal points to JoeyStanford that Chicago is still in the US!!!
<mako> JoeyStanford: detroit has had KICKING loco for a long time
<JoeyStanford> You're second buddy :-)
<nixternal> they haven't moved us yet
<jenda> break it up ;)
<JoeyStanford> lol yeah, the wiki needs to be updated
<nixternal> oh ya, Detroit had a huge release party as well!!
<mako> alright
<Toadstool> (/me whispers "hi everybody")
<mako> new member candidates
* alenitchev is here
<sharms2> I am here.
* nixternal is here
<mako> for the few and the strong that have survived this far
* lfittl is here
* JoeyStanford is here
<Seveas> JoeyStanford is the first
* heno here
<Seveas> (whitesoft isn't around)
<mako> Seveas: ah, ok
<heno> I have to go in about 10 min though :(
<mako> JoeyStanford: ok.. we're already familiar with your work
<JoeyStanford> lol
<nixternal> nice
<JoeyStanford> I have a pitch but it's smaller than the loco
* Sp4rKy is here
<Seveas> JoeyStanford, *pfew*
<JoeyStanford> Go or skip? :-)
<Seveas> go
<elmo> let's do heno quickly if he has to go?
<JoeyStanford> Greetings.
<JoeyStanford>  Thank you for allowing me a few minutes of your time today. My wiki entry is: 
<JoeyStanford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoeyStanford    (note the TABS at the top of the page)
<nealmcb> joey can you do it in one long line?
<JoeyStanford> I am applying for Ubuntu Membership today. If you deem me not ready, I would very much like guidance on how/what to 
<JoeyStanford> improve so I may reapply in the future.
<heno> elmo: thanks, after Joey
<JoeyStanford> About myself: I'm very passionate about Free/Open Software. I have been using GNU/Linux since the mid-1990s and have 
<JoeyStanford> been using Ubuntu since Warty. I made the switch to using only Ubuntu in my personal life in 2004. 
<JoeyStanford> I am active in a few 
<JoeyStanford> non-Ubuntu F/OSS projects but I am most well known as an OpenOffice.org Project Lead. 
<JoeyStanford> 
<JoeyStanford> I founded both the OOo Esperanto L10N Team and the Esperanto Native Lang Team (yes, Esperanto has "de naska" (from 
<JoeyStanford> birth) speakers!) and, in general, I help out a number of other (non-translation based) OOo projects.  Neal also speaks Esperanto btw
<JoeyStanford> 
<JoeyStanford> My Ubuntu Activities: I am the founder and current Team Leader of the Colorado Local Community Team, the co-lead for the 
<JoeyStanford> Ubuntu Esperanto Team, and a participant on the Marketing and Laptop Testing Teams. My Launchpad Karma is steadily 
<JoeyStanford> growing too. :-)
<JoeyStanford>  A mostly-complete list of my contributions to Ubuntu can be found on my wiki page. 
<JoeyStanford> 
<JoeyStanford> My Future Participation in Ubuntu: I will remain, for the foreseeable future, the team lead for the Colorado Team. I 
<JoeyStanford> have great aspirations of continuing to grow the user base and outreach programs as well as helping local Ubuntu users.
<JoeyStanford> I've set the full goals to 'paper' on the Team's wiki entry: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColoradoTeam
<JoeyStanford> 
<JoeyStanford> I also have a standing commitment to my Ubuntu Esperanto Teammate, Tim Morley, that I will continue to assist with 
<JoeyStanford> translations, builds, organizational activities, and other activities. 
<JoeyStanford> I am also eager to see how I can increase my 
<JoeyStanford> participation in the Marketing Team via the team's projects (SpreadUbuntu, Ubuntu Magazine, etc.) as they deploy.
<Seveas> that
<JoeyStanford>  A 
<JoeyStanford> complete list of my aspirations and goals can be found on my wiki page.
<JoeyStanford> 
<Seveas> isn't smaller 
<JoeyStanford> I wish to thank you all again for your time today. I welcome any questions you may have.  This concludes my 
<JoeyStanford> introduction.  Thank you.
* JoeyStanford done
* JoeyStanford lol
<Toadstool> pfew, at least it was shorter than the locoteam intro :P
<mako> c'mon man
<nixternal> haha
<JoeyStanford> I'm a project manager and I had material ready. :-)
<jenda> So, JoeyStanford, who did you say you were?
* JoeyStanford laughs.
<nixternal> scroll up
<jenda> mako: JoeyStanford has also helped out bits and pieces, definitely noticeable, with the budding Marketing Team.
<mako> JoeyStanford: are you a native esperanto speaker?
<JoeyStanford> mako: not native.
<nealmcb> Again, I'm https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NealMcBurnett   I've worked with Joey for two years on various projects including Ubuntu and Linux.  Joey has an enormous amount of energy, and is experienced in a wide variety of fields: technical, project leadership, organizational, security.  He gives great Ubuntu talks for local Linux Users Groups.  He is very community-minded, and organizes people and activities well.  And he has a smile that simply radiates
<JoeyStanford> wow, thanks neal
<JoeyStanford> and Jenda
<nixternal> im also a +1 on Joey as I have worked with him with the Ubuntu Magazine, and he guided me with getting the Ubuntu Chicago LoCo up, we need more people like him in the community!!!
<mako> your LP page?
<Seveas> https://launchpad.net/people/joey-stan4d
<nealmcb> but his esperanto accent needs a lot of work to recover from growing up in New York
<mako> thanks
* JoeyStanford notes most people get confused with the tabs on his wiki entry
* jenda was too
<mako> great :)
<mako> i'm happy with JoeyStanford as a member
<mako> elmo, Kamion?
<elmo> +1
<mako> who is the next person here?
<Kamion> how could I not, with such an intro ;-)
<JoeyStanford> lol
<mako> Kamion: i almost didn't BECAUSE of the intro
<mako> ;)
* heno asks nicely to cut in the queue
<gnomefreak> heno: was next because he has to go?
<heno> :)
<juantao_> Jon Dowd
<jenda> Congratulations, JoeyStanford. Knew you could make it 
<mako> heno: go ahead henrik
<Seveas> juantao_, please wait
<heno> Hi folks
<JoeyStanford> Thanks everyone.
<juantao_> k
<heno> - I started TheOpenCD project in 2002, which is the upstream for the Ubuntu WinFOSS. 
<heno> - I've been working on Ubuntu since August 2004. First with the WinFOSS selection, then as webmaster and now focusing on accessibility and non-software content
<heno> - I'm sort of an adopted member of the core development team, though I'm not a developer :)
<heno> - For this release I want to try to put some more weight behind our claim of having the best accessibility support available. I think we are just ahead of the other major distros now by a nose, but we should work to set a new standard. 
<heno> - I like the phrase 'computing for everyone'
<mako> i can't beleive heno isn't a member already
<Seveas> likewise
<heno> sorry, left it a bit late ;-p
<elmo> I think this falls under the "obvious" category (c.f. gcc etc. commit rules)
<heno> wanted tomake sure I could show sustained effort ...
<mako> usually a like a little more smalltalk but i disappear in 15 minutes so :)
<mako> heno: you win on both counts
<mako> heno: well you've got my vote :)
<mako> Kamion: make it official?
<mako> juantao_: you're up!
<juantao_> worth the wait, this has been very educational and heart-warming.
<mako> heno: i think i'll risk welcoming you prematurely
<heno> cool, thanks!
<mako> heno: thanks for sticking through the meeting
<Kamion> yes, been working with heno for ages and obviously have no problem at all with him, huge sustained/significant contribution
<Seveas> juantao_, please introduce yourself
<juantao_> My name is Jon Dowd and I live in Ashland Oregon (USA). Support manager small (7,000 users) ISP, by day. Evenings are spent rebuilding computers donated to www.computerdropoff.org the prior Saturday with using Ubuntu exclusively.
<mako> heno: if every candidate was as commically overqualified for membership as you, our meetings would be of a more sane length
<heno> :)
<juantao_> In February I drove my little truck 5,000 miles to New Orleans donating computers to former Black Panther and founder of Common Ground Relief. I set up a small LAN in his garage to help assist coordination of their efforts (summer home to 2,000 student volunteers. Came home one week later and opened a center where we take in donated computers, install Ubuntu and prepare them for delivery this August.
<mako> juantao_: i love ashland :)
<juantao_> it IS paradise
<juantao_> These efforts will result in placing Ubuntu computers in several schools. Although I applaud the efforts many are making in Edubuntu, for our needs (older students) Ubuntu is better suited.
<mako> tjat
<mako> that's great
<mako> what are your contributions in the ubuntu community to date?
<juantao_> promoting Ubuntu to all and putting it on all the computers i touch
* mako nods
<juantao_> (small compared to others here today)
<mako> juantao_: well, that's not necessary the case
<juantao_> but I touch 5 /10 computers a week - they all get Ubuntu!
<jenda> juantao_: you're a person who should definitely be in #ubuntu-marketing, on a side note ;)
<mako> juantao_: but we usually ask for documentation ad/or testimonials from the community
<mako> jenda: right, for example
<mako> i can imagine a number of other places in the community where you energy/effort could be integrated
<juantao_> sorry, i dont think i'm known
<juantao_> we are on the cusp of a really big thing here , aren't we?
<mako> with ubuntu?
<juantao_> yes 
<mako> i think so :)
<juantao_> changing the world
<juantao_> as in what we pay for and defining free
<mako> juantao_: so ubuntu related advocacy work is a great way to qualify for membership
<juantao_> well i thuought so and showed up.
<juantao_> signed the contract
<mako> juantao_: but its easier for us to be able to recognize it with a bit more documentation and integration with the rest of the community
<mako> juantao_: well, that's the first step
<juantao_> sure.
* bddebian wonders how he ever got in :-)
<juantao_> I can wait, 
<Seveas> bddebian, you bribed ogra
<mako> juantao_: i would suggest you look at the marketing team or the doc team or any number of other parts of the community
<juantao_> sure
<bddebian> Seveas: Oh yeah, thx :-)
<mako> maybe in a monht or so pull together a few testimionials from other folks
<mako> juantao_: shouldn't be controverisla :)
<Toadstool> bddebian: you're a god, remember? ;)
<jenda> juantao_: you're always welcome in the marketing team ;)
<juantao_> i'll do it, and come back
<mako> juantao_: if you're alright with that, i'd just as soon proceed
<LaserJock> juantao_: edubuntu would also be probably interested in your experiecene with the schools
<mako> juantao_: great! thanks for showing up and for your work so far!
<mako> looking forward to great things in the future
<juantao_> thanks, I'll paste this in a memo - ya'll are GREAT !
<mako> crap, i have another meeting starting like now
<Seveas> mako, eep :/
<mako> who else is here
<sharms2> I am here
<lfittl> me
* alenitchev here
* nixternal is here
<Sp4rKy> me
<Seveas> Sp4rKy, nixternal alenitchev lfittl 
<gnomefreak> Seveas: sharms2 also
<mako> alright
<mako> alenitchev: you're next in line
<alenitchev> Hello
<alenitchev> My name is Dmitri Alenitchev. I'm 19 years old and live in Moscow region, Russia. At present moment i work in small software company, "Digital Worlds J.S.C." at System Administrator position. In my work i use Free and Open Source software.
<alenitchev> Since 2000 year i use GNU/Linux as my primary OS. Also, i use FreeBSD and OpenBSD. My contribution to Open Source project was started from packaging and documentation works for Russian RPM-based Linux distribution - ALTLinux. I make some works for another RPM distribution - Fedora Core Linux. My first translations to Russian language i make for Fedora Core. Since summer, 2005 I'm official GNU Webmaster. Also, i make some works for various GNU 
<alenitchev> projects. 
<Seveas> mako, err, Sp4rKy was...
<alenitchev> Since 2005 year i become maintainer of `manpages-ru' package in Debian, included in Ubuntu. In this year i start making works for OpenOffice.org (documentation, translation and QA).
<Sp4rKy> I'm Maxence DUNNEWIND ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaxenceDunnewind ) , actually i try to help a lot of people on IRC (mainly at #ubuntu-fr / #ubuntu-fr-testing) . I also start with packaging few weeks ago, and my first package (yerinia) has been accepted today in universe repositories. I hope i'll could  help many people with ubuntu or convert some of them from Windows to Ubuntu (i coach a Free software && Linux training in few d
<Sp4rKy> ays). I hope to create more package and maybe help new packagers and why not become a MOTU. I'm actually working on a enlightenment DR17 repository for Ubuntu.
<alenitchev> My interests in Ubuntu is participating in works for better hardware support, packaging, translation in Russian language, documentation, QA. I think about 3-5 hours work for Ubuntu every day.
<mako> ergh. sorry
<bddebian> Ack my eyes
<Seveas> ah well, we now had both intros 
* nixternal faints
<mako> umm.. Sp4rKy lets go ahead with you since you were next in line
<Sp4rKy> k
<Sp4rKy> do you see my intro ?
<mako> yes
<mako> any testimonials?
<Toadstool> yep
<Sp4rKy> yes gloubiboulga at wiki
<Sp4rKy> toadstool
<Sp4rKy> and maybe bddebian 
<jenda> I've seen Sp4rKy help out on IRC quite a bit.
<Toadstool> Sp4rKy is of great help on #ubuntu-fr and #ubuntu-fr-testing
<Toadstool> and he's started packaging a few weeks ago and he's doing a great job
<bddebian> Aye, Sp4rKy has bene working on packaging
<Sp4rKy> yep
<Sp4rKy> yersinia , my first package, was just accepted to Universe :)
<mako> i saw the two on the wiki
<mako> Sp4rKy: how long have you been active in ubuntu?
<mako> Sp4rKy: how long have you been doing packaging stuff?
<Sp4rKy> i'm active at IRC since about 2 years
<Sp4rKy> i've wrote my first french tutorial 1year ago
<Sp4rKy> and i've started packaging since about  2/3 month ago
<Sp4rKy> and actually works on some packages
<Sp4rKy> and an e17 repository
<mako> right
<mako> well, a little more documentation would be nice
<mako> but i'm happy approving Sp4rKy for membership
<mako> and i just got a call from the person i am standing up for a meeting right now
<mako> so i'm going to have to disappear
<mako> if Kamion or elmo can guide through the rest of this, i'm happy to put in my 2cents later
<mako> otherwise, we'll have to pick up later
<nixternal> take care mako, and thanks for listening!!!
* mako apologizes
<elmo> mako: thanks
<Kamion> I'm happy with Sp4rKy too
<elmo> yeah, +1 from me
<mako> see you all next time guys
<mako> Sp4rKy: welcome! :)
<jenda> later
<mako> and goodbye :)
<gnomefreak> later mako 
<Seveas> ciao mako 
<elmo> who's left to do?
<elmo> (that's here)
<lfittl> me
* nixternal is
<Toadstool> congratulations Sp4rKy !
* alenitchev is here
* sharms2 is here
<Sp4rKy> thanx mako Kamion elmo  !
<bddebian> Yeah Sp4rKy
<Sp4rKy> thanx CC
<Sp4rKy> thx bddebian Toadstool !!!
<bddebian> OK guys I have to run but:
<Sp4rKy> and gloubi of course
<bddebian> nixternal+
<nixternal> thx bddebian
<bddebian> sharms2+
<Sp4rKy> (and jenda too )
<jenda> 
<jenda> let's move ;)
<elmo> ok, 4 more.  guys, you can either postpoone till next time, or we can talk to you now and have mako vote later after catching up on the logs
<nixternal> now ;)
<alenitchev> now
<lfittl> now would be better
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-12
<bddebian> Oh and lfittl+ ( I see his name all over :-) )
<Kamion> ok
<lfittl> bddebian: thanks :)
<sharms2> bddebian: thank you
<elmo> ok, alenitchev I think you're next on the list
<elmo> alenitchev: wanna do your intro?
<alenitchev> ok
<alenitchev> My name is Dmitri Alenitchev. I'm 19 years old and live in Moscow region, Russia. At present moment i work in small software company, "Digital Worlds J.S.C." at System Administrator position. In my work i use Free and Open Source software.
<alenitchev> Since 2000 year i use GNU/Linux as my primary OS. Also, i use FreeBSD and OpenBSD. My contribution to Open Source project was started from packaging and documentation works for Russian RPM-based Linux distribution - ALTLinux. I make some works for another RPM distribution - Fedora Core Linux. My first translations to Russian language i make for Fedora Core. Since summer, 2005 I'm official GNU Webmaster. Also, i make some works for various GNU 
<alenitchev> projects.
<alenitchev> Since 2005 year i become maintainer of `manpages-ru' package in Debian, included in Ubuntu. In this year i start making works for OpenOffice.org (documentation, translation and QA).
<alenitchev> My interests in Ubuntu is participating in works for better hardware support, packaging, translation in Russian language, documentation, QA. I think about 3-5 hours work for Ubuntu every day.
<alenitchev> use Ubuntu since Warty
<alenitchev> since breezy my package (from Debian) in Ubuntu
<alenitchev> that is all ;)
<Kamion> that's a lot of teams (on launchpad); how many of those do you actively keep up with?
<alenitchev> many of them
<alenitchev> i'm in team, which interested for me
<Kamion> just seems like a hell of a lot to actively keep up with, that's all :)
<Kamion> no real problems though, you seem to have been making reasonable contributions for a while
<elmo> yeah, I agree
<alenitchev> thanks
<Kamion> maybe one day we'll get around to music-while-installing ;-)
<alenitchev> that will be really nice! ;)
<Kamion> (though I expect it'll end up being Mark's flash demo or whatever)
<Kamion> (once the content actually exists and free software can play it without crashing and burning entertainingly)
* jenda will turn up his stereo louder
<alenitchev> Kamion: yes, can
<Kamion> anyhow, +1 as far as I'm concerned; mako can catch up with you later on for final approval
<alenitchev> Kamion: thanks
<elmo> ok, who's next
<elmo> nixternal, I think?
<nixternal> im still here
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> go go go
* nixternal is Rich Johnson, 32 years old, out of Chicago, IL US. I am a sys admin by trade, and getting ready to go back to school to brush up on programming!!!
<nixternal> Wiki:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nixternal     |     launchpad:  https://launchpad.net/people/nixternal
<nixternal> Been using/abusing Linux since 1994 (on & off). Started playing with Ubuntu last year, and fell in love really starting with Kubuntu Dapper Flight 3.
<nixternal> I have been in and out of the IRC channel with many different nicks over the past year, however since April/May I have been 'nixternal' in #kubuntu offering support as much as possible.
<nixternal> I am also in the NewUserNetwork which runs a classroom for the new user and their Ubuntu Linux operating system. Starting in August we will be running actual classes for everyone to check out. I will be adding myself as a mentor/instructor for a couple of programs.
<nixternal> I have contributed a lot to many wiki pages, as I work on the WikiTeam. My main contributions have been in the CategoryCleanup area, cleaning up pages that aren't styled correctly, or the information is confusing. I have done over 100 pages so far, and there is still more then 300 left.
<nixternal> DocumentationTeam work consists of helping the team review documentation, as I am not a full fledged member just yet, and I am still learning the svn system as well as docbooks. However, I am working alongside jjesse and others on creating "Switching From Windows" documentation.
<nixternal> Marketing Team work right now is huge, as we are redesigning ourselves. I am currently working on Wiki redesign for all Marketing pages, as well as the Magazine project. I am also working on documentation/presentations for members to use for Marketing as well as for the LoCo Teams.
<nixternal> Laptop team work is currently pretty slow as we are waiting for the first Knot really to begin testing again. I have contributed a Kubuntu Dapper test for Flight 7 and the LTS. I will continue providing support in the IRC channel as well.
<Seveas> nixternal, ah, so the NuN/classroom is going somewhere, cool!
<nixternal> BugSquad work will definitely keep you busy. I have done triage, minor in aspect, as I haven't created a patch just yet, but I have done the general work by responding to the poster, asking for more information if needed, and confirming if possible.
<nixternal> Chicago Team is keeping me pretty busy as it is a very new team. We are officially holding our first meeting July 27. I will be giving a couple presentations as well as a few of our other members. Membership is continuing to grow daily, and we are planning an event downtown Chicago soon.
<jenda> Rich Johnson's contribution and support in the Marketing Team was invaluable. Added his involvement in the NUN, WikiTeam, DocTeam etc., but mainly the Chicago LoCo Team - he is an extremely valuable asset to the Ubuntu community, and if every LoCo had one of these, Ubuntu Marketing would probably be on a totally different level by now.
<nixternal> I am becoming more and more of a forums leach. I have supported a couple of things in both the Ubuntu and Kubuntu forums. I am trying to work my way up the proverbial "Cups of Java" ladder, of course without spamming to gain points ;)
<gnomefreak> Seveas: so far we hope to get it moving
<nixternal> My future plans are to continue supporting the Ubuntu community anyway possible. I am interested in future programming and packaging, as well as documentation, testing, reviewing, marketing, bug triaging, and everything else I am available to do.
<nixternal> Thank you, and now the floor is open to you!!!
<nixternal> yes Seveas
<nixternal> now that my lag is at 2s ;)
<nixternal> there is more that you will find me doing... i believe jjesse also emailed Seveas with support
<nixternal> i am in to many channgels to count, and when i can help i step up if possible
<bimberi> I've seen nixternal helping people in #kubuntu for quite a while (>>2 months).  Of other areas I'm involved with he's an active contributor to ubuntu-marketing, ubuntu-doc and it seeems he's a (the?) prime mover for the Chicago LoCoTeam.  Enthusiastic, Smart, a Do-er.  A real asset.
<nixternal> i figure that if Ubuntu is free to me, then I should help as much as possible to continue it
<Seveas> nixternal, dang
<Seveas> I will not be able to make it to the next meeting to pass on a word of recommendation for Rich but wanted to lend what support maybe.  He has been quite active on many channels including #kubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-doc adding interesting things to the converstation.  We are working together on creating a new document (wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDocs/Edgy) Switching From Windows for edgy and have had l
<Seveas> ots of discussion.  He has also been VERY VERY active on the Wiki doing a lot of cleanup and other thankless tasks.  A great candidate for becoming a Ubuntu Member.  I know how hard it is to become a member without support so I wanted to lend any help that I can.
<Seveas> ^-- jjesse sent that two weeks ago
<nixternal> hehe
<Seveas> completely forgot it this time
<nixternal> thx Seveas
<nixternal> thank god he CC'd me, otherwise i wouldn't have known
<gnomefreak> nixternal: is doing a great job with -marketing and -nun and i have seen him step up when hes around to help another user
<nixternal> also, im getting ready to help jsgotangco on a "Server Book" project he has coming up
<nixternal> i will be providing a review to the publisher
<Seveas> nixternal, /me too 
<elmo> ok
<nixternal> im picking up packaging, as I read it to help out LaserJock with editing it
<elmo> thanks nixternal, that all seems pretty impressive
<nixternal> thank you
<elmo> +1 from me
<Kamion> (catching up, one sec)
<nixternal> hehe
<Seveas> who is doing lp today? Sp4rKy is not accepted yet on lp 
<nixternal> CoC is signed, karma >10k
<nixternal> been here a few months
<nixternal> staying here for as long as you will keep me ;)
<Kamion> yup, having read that, no issues - +1
<Kamion> elmo: will you do lp or do you want me to?
<Seveas> nixternal, almost congratz then (make will read later)
<Seveas> sharms2, you're next
<nixternal> make..lol mako
<nixternal> hahah
<elmo> Kamion: I can do it
* sharms2 is here
<Kamion> ta
<nixternal> thanks everyone!!!
<sharms2> I am Steven Harms.  My wiki page (create to spec with the requirements listed :): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StevenHarms, and I am applying for Ubuntu Membership.  I have been using Ubuntu since it first came out (in fact my forums user ID is < 600). 
<sharms2> I frequently help users on #ubuntu, I have recently taken an active role in bug triage, and am looking to eventually join the MOTU. 
<sharms2> I also act as a Ubuntu support / advocate on the campus of the university of michigan, and provide ubuntu cd's to students (I generally distribute ~30 a release)
<sharms2> I am looking to increase my roll in bug triage, because I feel it is one of the best ways to help ubuntu by filtering bugs which are not bugs, and confirming the ones that are bugs, so people directly involved may actually fix said bugs.
<sharms2> I thank you for taking the time to look over my wiki page and appreciate your time
<Seveas> sharms, what's your forum profilepage?
<sharms2> one sec
<sharms2> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=330
<sharms2> On a side note, for the freenode ofth discussion, I was previously known as mindwarp here until my nickname was stolen
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<sharms2> Here is my mouse howto: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=192264
<sharms2> for those using the usb microsoft explorer mouse with forward and back buttons (firefox)
<elmo> hmm, did you have anyone vouching for you?
<sharms2> bddebian
<sharms2> he has seen me help people in #ubuntu
<sharms2> but mostly just that I bug triage right now, which doesnt have a ton of interaction over here
<elmo> ok
<nixternal> #ubuntu-bugs is where us bug sickos hang out!!
<sharms2> :)
<sharms2> Also I am hoping to take over the istanbul package eventaully
<sharms2> been working on it but I think gstreamer needs more polish at this point since certain pipes segfault here
<elmo> sharms: how long have you been doing bug triage and stuff?
<sharms2> Last few months I have started triaging very actively, previously due to an already reported launchpad bug I wasn't able to find how to properly triage bugs
<elmo> ok
<Kamion> ok, your page is a little light compared to some others tonight, but you do seem to have been doing a fairly respectable amount of bug work
<elmo> agreed, +1 from me
<sharms2> thank you very much
<elmo> ok, lfittl ?
<Kamion> I recommend continuing to work with the #ubuntu-bugs and #ubuntu-motu crowds
<Kamion> who can help you develop
<Kamion> but +1 from me for membership for the time being
<lfittl> My name is Lukas Fittl, I'm a student from Vienna, Austria.
<lfittl> I have started using Ubuntu with 5.04 / Hoary, and with the start of the dapper release cycle I got interested in packaging. At the moment I maintain 10 packages in universe, and for one package I am also part of upstream (libloki). For Dapper I fixed around 60 unmet dependencies in universe. If I find some free time I triage bugs in Malone, and I also review old bug reports that are still open to ensure they have the cor
<lfittl> rect status. Recently I added a new column to the packaging candidates page, to make tracking the debian status and existing packages easier.
<sharms2> I appreciate the advice thank you
<lfittl> More information can be found at my wiki page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukasFittl).
<Kamion> excuse me, I have a crying child to attend to
<lfittl> k
<Kamion> right, sorry, back
<elmo> wow, impressive amount of packaging work
<lfittl> np
<lfittl> elmo: thanks, I also have some other packages on my todo list ;)
<Kamion> we seriously need to get uploads into the karma system
<lfittl> yep
<elmo> oh, good point, I'll file a bug on soyuz
<LaserJock> \o/
<lfittl> elmo: I think this is already planned somewhere in the wiki
<elmo> lfittl: bugs help reinforce planning ;)
<lfittl> elmo: thats right :)
<Kamion> https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+spec/soyuz-karma
<lfittl> :)
<elmo> any MOTUs still around and want to do their \o/ dance for lfittl?
<LaserJock> lfittl has been around -motu for some time
<ogra> dholbach sponsored a lot for lfittl and was always happy with the package quality as he often told me
<Kamion> cool, that spec proposes enormous karma for archive admins, rah
<Kamion> *ahem*
<LaserJock> I haven't sponsored any of lfittl's packages so I can't say much there
<ogra> seems he keeps our windowmaker community happy ;)
<elmo> +1 from me
<lfittl> thank you :)
<Kamion> right, +1 for sheer packaging effort
<Kamion> I've seen your name going past for some time now
<lfittl> also, thanks :)
<lfittl> should I contact mako to get his opinion, or will he automatically catch up?
<alenitchev> yes, what about mako's opinion?
<elmo> we'll send him a a mail asking him to look at the logs for you 4 when he gets a chance
<lfittl> k
<elmo> if he has any concerns, we can deal with them, otherwise, you'll be approved when he's had a chance to do that
<elmo> we'll also have to schedule the next meeting out of band.  but mark should be back for the next one
<alenitchev> ok, thanks!
<lfittl> thanks for your time
<sharms> I really appreciate it guys also
<Kamion> ok, sorry this has been such a marathon meeting
<sharms> it shows dedication!
<Kamion> (not been any easier for us than for you guys)
<elmo> yeah, thanks everyone for your patience
<alenitchev> thanks for your time!
<elmo> meeting closed.  adjourned.  whatever.  thank you and good night.
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 12 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 14:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu
<dholbach> ps
* Seveas inflates dholbach again
<dholbach> haha :)
<jenda> @schedule ECT
<jenda> @schedule New York
<jenda> @schedule Eastern
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Canada/Eastern: 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 09:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu
<neuralis> jenda: New_York
<jenda> No prob ;) thx
* jenda is Prague, no spaces to bother me.
<jenda> @schedule Prague
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Prague: 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu
<jenda> wow :) I really thought I booked the MT meeting for 22:00 :D
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 12 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 16:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 10:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 17:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 17:00: Edubuntu
<RichEd> greetz ... i'm a newbie to (ed)ubuntu meetings ... is there a specific agenda for the meeting ?
<Seveas> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 12 2006, 11:45:03 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 14 minutes
<Seveas> RichEd, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda
<RichEd> ogra: re LAMS ... twas already on the swot up task list from Mark while he is on leave.
<ogra> ah, cool
<RichEd> Seveas: tx :) followed the link above to the meeting page ... didn't spot the agenda link
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jul 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* RichEd goes to fetch a pre-meeting coffee
<ogra> meep
<jsgotangco> hi
<ogra> seems cbx33 is missing for the minutes
<ogra> also there are no extra points on the agenda ... thats fine 
<ogra> so lets keep it short :)
<ogra> from the tech side:
<ogra> i'm lagginng a bit with the edubuntu-artwork fix for dapper ... due to two merges for ubuntu i hadnt planned buit i'm doing atm
<ogra> +but i hope to get it done this week
<ogra> the metapackages and seeds are in shape so far (if you have seen the changelog of my edubuntu-meta upload... its huge, we dropped a lot)
<ogra> so we should be ready for tomorrows first milestone CD
<jsgotangco> nice
<JaneW> first milestone already?
<JaneW> cool
<Mithrandir> ogra: it might very well not happen tomorrow unless a lot of packages are fixed.
<JaneW> what are they called this time?
<ogra> apart from that i'm most busy with ubuntu stuff as rodarvus is ...
<Mithrandir> JaneW: knot
<jsgotangco> knot 1
<rodarvus> ogra: lets just hope the rest of the distribution is fixed by tomorrow :)
<JaneW> weird
<rodarvus> which as Mithrandir mentioned, I'm not really confident is going to happen
<JaneW> I liked scuttle
<ogra> Mithrandir, well, at least our -meta side is sorted, that was on top of my TODO :)
<rodarvus> right :)
<ogra> rodarvus, doesnt matter i'm only looking from a edubuntu POV atm
<Mithrandir> ogra: sure, just trying to not give people too high hopes about having something tomorrow.
<ogra> Mithrandir, i'm happy if i dont have to test all night :)
<jsgotangco> edubuntu-specific syncs and merges no issues?
<ogra> no "high hopes" here :)
<rodarvus> jsgotangco: Kalzium appears to be broken ATM, but I believe it is due to KDE specific stuff
<jsgotangco> right
<ogra> jsgotangco, sure, but they didnt have a deadline today :)
<ogra> err ..
<rodarvus> actually, I'm doing another dist-upgrade right now
<ogra> forget about my last sentence :)
<rodarvus> so in a minute I'll tell you if Kalzium is still broken :)
<ogra> i was reading "promotions to main" 
<ogra> there is nothing left to merge for edubuntu
<ogra> rodarvus, it might need a rebuild if libs underneath changed
<rodarvus> ogra: indeed
<ogra> thats a typical KDE thing ...
<rodarvus> I wish our build system could trigger library upgrades
<ogra> the kdeedu package itself should be fine though....
<jsgotangco> ill just skip dist-upgrading for now and wait for knot before testing
<ogra> in other bad news, my amd64 laptop died this week ... so i currently can only do powerpc testing (which isnt very helpful)
<jsgotangco> im going to fill in for amd64 if you want but my bandwidth isnt that great
<ogra> it would be very appreciated to have some i386 and amd64 testers once the knot CD is up
<rodarvus> my upgrade to 2mb dsl arrived yesterday
<rodarvus> I can do i386 testing
* jsgotangco curses his bandwidth
<ogra> i'll try to get a new amd64 lappie, but given that i also have to care for my move it might take some days
<rodarvus> my new laptop (intel core duo) should arrive in one or two weeks, but thats still i386
<ogra> so, thats all from the tech side so far ...
* jsgotangco sighs
* ogra ponders if he forgot something
<ogra> oh, right, the switch to a common buildsystem for ltsp is going on ...
<ogra> i just merged some changes from otavio ... i'll testbuild them this week and see if it works
<RichEd> i'm installing on a HP Pentium M 740 over the weekend ... if that helps as another test enviroment.
<ogra> once thats done the ltsp upstream guys willl jump on the code and start helping with development
<ogra> RichEd, what we'll test will be highly unstable ... 
<jsgotangco> very
<ogra> but if you have space for a spare testing partition, thats fine
<RichEd> noted
<ogra> its the first milestone and not really expected to work flawless :)
<ogra> (i.e. a bug we havent discovered yet might wipe your HD )
<ogra> so, tech update done i guess ...
<ogra> nobody from the cookbook team ? 
<ogra> seems they had a meeting ...
<jsgotangco> well pips1 is here
<pips1> hi
<ogra> pips1, any intresting things about documentation ? 
<pips1> nope
<pips1> but I wanted to discuss the website and how it relates to the documentation...
<ogra> highvoltage, anything from your side (you were looking for website admins iirc)
<pips1> sorry for being late, btw
<ogra> ok, seems there are either no documentation changes or its just nobody here who could tell us about  :)
<ogra> since lisa isnt here i doubt we'll get an artwork update
<ogra> but she announced herself on the ubuntu-art mailinglist yesterday :)
<jsgotangco> yes
<rodarvus> nice
<ogra> anything else about art ? 
<rodarvus> ogra: also note that its very unlikely that she'll ever attend early morning edubuntu meetings
<ogra> rodarvus, you said your wife would be intreasted
<rodarvus> its probably 5-6am where she lives now :)
<ogra> rodarvus, lisa ? 
<ogra> she lives in the uk
<rodarvus> ogra: indeed, my wife is interested, I talked to her already
<rodarvus> oh
<rodarvus> sorry
<flint> greetings sorry I am late in DC...
<rodarvus> I thougth she lived in the us
<ogra> nope
<rodarvus> disregard my comment then
<pips1> hi flint
<flint> pips1, hey...
<ogra> but she has a day job afaik
<rodarvus> ogra: so, I talked with my wife, she is very competent, and willing to help
<ogra> great !
<ogra> we'll need a team going at some point :)
<rodarvus> indeed :)
<rodarvus> as an interaction designer, she's totally Windows, though
<ogra> my GF would also like to help, but given the time constraints we currently have here, that wont happen for edgy i guess
<ogra> doesnt matter ... as long as she can produce svg and png ;)
<rodarvus> but only for reference, my wife used to work as a designer of a local linux distribution
<rodarvus> so the icons/themes thing is really not news for her
<flint> ogra, imho we need less designers and more coders/testers.
<rodarvus> flint: we don't need less designers
<ogra> Flik, the coding front is coming up to speed
<rodarvus> we just need more technical people
<ogra> *flint
<rodarvus> one thing is not related to the other :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> and i'm not worried about the tech front atm ...
<flint> rodarvus, i am.  have you seen the other LTSP offerings?
<rodarvus> flint: ogra and I have been busy doing merges the past few weeks
<ogra> it works quite well and there are people on their way to become more involved in hacking
<flint> rodarvus, when can we expect a new version say a flight?
<rodarvus> we are supposed to start working almost-full-time on Edubuntu (and LTSP) starting next week
<ogra> flint, we have scott and jim aboard for ltsp now
<ogra> no need to worry about that
<flint> rodarvus, would this next release be a flight?
<pips1> ogra: scott and jim? 
<ogra> they will base their next release on our code
<rodarvus> flint: next Knot ("flight" for Edgy) will be ready soon - it was mentioned in the beginning of the meeting, btw
<ogra> pips1, ltsp upstream
<jsgotangco> hmm just to add my wife is not even interested in this stuff im doing sorry =)
<ogra> flint, they are called knots not flights this release
<flint> rodarvus, thanks DC traffic etc...
<rodarvus> supposed to happen tomorrow, but likely to slip, due to merges being still ongoing
<ogra> flint, it will be knot 1
<flint> rodarvus, ah a slip-knot! :^)
<pips1> hehe
<rodarvus> :)
<flint> :^)
<ogra> flint, dont worry about ltsp ... it will come up to speed :)
<rodarvus> anyhow, back on topic :)
<ogra> yeah
<flint> ok
<ogra> are we done with artwork ? 
<rodarvus> *nods*
<ogra> fine then ...
<ogra> so lets come to the intresting part of this meeting
<ogra> ladies and gentlemen ....
<ogra> ... i'd like to introduce you all to aour new team mate ....
<ogra> ... our new educational manger ....
<ogra> ... husband of a former colleague ....
* RichEd waves hello
<JaneW> ogra: is lisa directly involved now?
<ogra> and surely the best guy we could get for the job !
<ogra> meet RichEd !!!!
<rodarvus> RichEd: welcome!
* RichEd takes a bow
* rodarvus cheers
<ogra> JaneW, she's our new baked artteam leader
<pips1> RichEd: welcome!
<flint> RichEd, Welcome and give my kindest regards to your wife
<jsgotangco> welcome
<JaneW> flint: hello
<RichEd> Thanks all ... I'm very gladf to be here ...
<simira> RichEd: who's your wife?
<JaneW> flint: do it yourself dude! :P
<ogra> yeah welcome RichEd  :)
<jsgotangco> simira: JaneW
<simira> ah
<simira> btw welcome, RichEd 
<pips1> hello JaneW :-)
<flint> JaneW, hey kiddo!
<simira> JaneW, how are you? Tollef told me you left.
<ogra> simira, only physically :)
* flint flint is most pleased to see Jane.
<ogra> she's stilll here as you see 
<simira> ogra: I see that
<JaneW> simira: good thanks
<RichEd> simira: she is holding my hand to day :) on her new emploers time & internet connection :)
<ogra> simira, we wont let her out of our claws this easy ;)
<simira> RichEd: sounds good. 
<flint> JaneW, who you working for?
* JaneW doesn't want to disrupt meeting
* flint ...so I can invest...
<JaneW> flint we can chat in #edubuntu
<flint> JaneW, fine
<ogra> i think we're done for today, unless someone has anything thats not on the agenda yet
<JaneW> wow, quick meeting
* jsgotangco cannot think of any
<ogra> if you have anything that should be discussed, SPEAK UP NOW !
<JaneW> ow's the cookbook?
<JaneW> still improving?
<flint> FYI Elkner and the DC mafia invaded San Diego 
<pips1> ogra: website!
<ogra> JaneW, nobody from the team was here
<JaneW> flint: oh yes how did NECC go?
<ogra> pips1, tell us 
<flint> JaneW, I will send you something... on the cookbook
<JaneW> flint: ta
<flint> elkner went to tijuana....  
<JaneW> flint: er... recreationally...?
<flint> I stayed here.  Big Crowd much interest...
<pips1> I think it would be very good if we could get more "life" into the website, i.e. more content, but also more interactions...
<ogra> pips1, highvoltage asked for more webmasters
<JaneW> pips1, yes more updates and dynamic stuff too
<ogra> (last week)
<JaneW> yes highvoltage will need help, he has a new venture to focus on and won't be able to commit much time here afaik
<pips1> I have been wondering what would be the best way to go about that... I think it would be great if we could get more educators discussing edu apps etc
<ogra> yep
<ogra> he has to be our edubuntu reseller in the future ;)
<JaneW> pips1, indeed
<ogra> pips1, ++
<flint> pips1, right now I am busy making trouble in DC.  After that I teach LTSP at University of New Hampshire (NELS) then I will cause more trouble here...
<JaneW> I think part of the problem so far was us guessing what what needed rather than getting actual requests
<simira> JaneW: you will still keep up with your engagement in Edubuntu on voluntary basis?
<pips1> in general, non technical people like forums and as far as i could see, there is still no edubuntu-specific forum on ubuntuforums?
<ogra> pips1, i think such stuff will be part of RichEd's job (correcrt me if i'm wrong)
<flint> JaneW, look at Fedora K12 LTSP and do what they are doing.
<flint> except do it better...
<ogra> pips1, there is one in the german forums ... i thought ubuntuforumms has one as well
<flint> :^)
<jsgotangco> it does look a bit dull at the moment
<jsgotangco> and nothing moves
<pips1> the problem with forums is that you want moderators...
<JaneW> btw RichEd is disconnect, prolly by ADSL reset
<pips1> we need some kind of quality assurance for the website, I don't think we can allow anonymous postings, can we...?
<JaneW> simira, I am going to try to be around a bit, but can't commit to much atm
<ogra> JaneW, then he can correct me later :)
<flint> Ah yes the tradition of Commonwealth communications...
<JaneW> ogra, I think so
<ogra> pips1, we shouldnt  ... 
<ogra> not for the website
<jsgotangco> pips1: of course
<pips1> ogra: agreed
<pips1> huh?
<pips1> so JaneW and jsgotangco think we *should* allow anonymous postings?
<JaneW> no
<jsgotangco> no way
<ogra> we have a wiki and we *should* get a forum at some point ...
<pips1> ah, right
<flint> pips1, na but make registration painless.
<JaneW> I was answering ogra saying RichEd should look into it
<ogra> the forum might have anonymous access allowed 
<rodarvus> we should get a "folder" on ubuntuforums, actually
<pips1> right
<ogra> yep
<flint> ogra, painless registration rather than anonymous is my vote.
<ogra> rodarvus, but someone has to take responsibility 
<ogra> we cant burden it on the existing forum people
<rodarvus> agreed
<rodarvus> but any forums need admins
<rodarvus> what I mean is that, if/when we are supposed to have a forum
<pips1> well, drupal , our website cms, is just perfect for building *community* sites.... enabling community communication... the technical stuff is not a problem, but we should agree on who can do forum moderation and who can proof read new content, so we don't publish incorrect technical information, etc
<rodarvus> it should be ubuntuforums
<rodarvus> there is no reason (nor rationale) to create our own forums
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i will talk to one of the forum people
<flint> rodarvus, drupal does the job, what I worry about is subject linkage if you are not part of ubuntuforums
<jsgotangco> (they guy who attended in Paris)
<rodarvus> jsgotangco: oh, I met him
<jsgotangco> yeah
<JaneW> jsgotangco, that was Roald Hopman
<ogra> grr, i hate my wireless
<jsgotangco> so yeah I will send him a PM
<jsgotangco> in the forums
<ogra> oh, right, we talked the last evening in the smokers corner :)
<pips1> rodarvus: well, in general, I agree that we should build something that exists already/elsewhere, but there is a big divide between the ubuntuforums communities and the rest of the community (more technical people, who are prefer and are used to use bugtrackers, irc, mailing listes, etc)
<rodarvus> flint: the thing is, there is no reason to create another forum, no matter which tool is used for this forum - we should stick to what we already have (and which works quite well)
<rodarvus> pips1: people are trying to address this
<jsgotangco> ill look into this
<ogra> rodarvus, well, we always had probs with the forums ... that wont go away
<rodarvus> as mentioned here, Roald Hopman (one of the ubuntuforum admins) was at UDS Paris
<jsgotangco> considering were pretty much low traffic for now
<pips1> *shouldn't build something
<jsgotangco> it shouldn't be that much of an issue IMO
<rodarvus> and talked for a long while with sabdfl, jdub and mako
<ogra> i'd love to see it solved but unless that happens i wont belive its doable
<rodarvus> so, all interested parts (Mark included) are aware, and hopefully working on that
<jsgotangco> what is not doable? an edubuntu forum?
<flint> rodarvus, we agree on this point for differing reasons... but we agree.
<RichEd_> hi ... got disconnected ... back ...
<JaneW> hi RichEd_ welcome to ADSL reset hell
<ogra> having our own forum would gain us more control ... and given that our userbase is a lot smaller it would probably be easier to manage
<pips1> since there isn't any edubuntu-specific forum at ubuntuforums, why don't we enable a forum on our own site and see how that goes? or are you guys strictly against that idea?
<jsgotangco> well drupal has a forum plugin we can use if you want to
<ogra> jsgotangco, there were various attempts to get the forums in shape over the last two years
* jsgotangco is completely aware of that
<ogra> i havent seen any fruitful ones that solved the probs yet
<JaneW> yes thee are current forum governance issues afaik
<ogra> i'd love to be proven wrong though
<RichEd_> JaneW: please can you copy paste & email me the coversantion between [<JaneW> simira: good thanks]  and my return message ... tx
<pips1> governance issues?! like what?
<rodarvus> to be sincere, I'm mostly against the idea of having a separate forum
<jsgotangco> they like to govern on their own
<JaneW> also edubuntu forums will likely want to attract educators, which may not happen in the current ubuntu forums structure
<rodarvus> since there is interest on both parties to have a better integration with the existing forum with Ubuntu (and Ubuntu Community Council) itself
* bimberi , fwiw, agrees with rodarvus
<ogra> rodarvus, well, having it integrated in ubuntuforums will bring us their problems ...
<jsgotangco> okay
<jsgotangco> we can then just activate the drupal forum then
<ogra> having it separated will bring us maintenance work ...
<jsgotangco> shouldn't be that complicated
<RichEd_> i thnk that an education specific forum is important if we want to attract users - teachers are a different breed to regular users
<flint> Thanks all until next time!
<ogra> RichEd_, thats out of question
<bimberi> Jane Silber posted to ubuntu-marketing about the positives of the teams using the same resources.  Admittedly that was wiki focussed, but still applies
<flint> sksk
<RichEd_> okay ... 
<pips1> rodarvus: separate in which way? we can always do hyperlinks, it is just a question of the *integration* with the rest of the content... i.e. in drupal, every content get a "unique id", which means that you can re-organise your navigation very easily... you can increase the findability of stuff...
<ogra> RichEd_, the problem is that we'd inherit all govenance problems they have etc ... and if its on ubuntuforums which has a huge userbase you'll have to deal witn a lot of spam and trivias you wont see in a separate forum
<bimberi> (for reference - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2006-July/000552.html )
<ogra> we'd have more control in a self governed one ...
<highvoltage> sorry for being late again!
<ogra> iirc one of the reasons why the web guys cried for drupal was the integration of our own forum in the past
<rodarvus> highvoltage: tsc, tsc
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: yuppy executive startup bigwig!
<highvoltage> *g*
<rodarvus> highvoltage: I'll discount the late time on your monthly payment :D
<rodarvus> pips1: but what do you mean with "hyperlinks"
<rodarvus> for me, separate means not in the same database
<JaneW> <ogra> RichEd_, thats out of question <- what do you mean?
<rodarvus> many Edubuntu questions are not edubuntu specific
<highvoltage> rodarvus: ok :)
<ogra> JaneW, <RichEd_> i thnk that an education specific forum is important if we want to attract users - teachers are a different breed to regular users
<JaneW> ogra: yes we chose to migrate to drupal with the knowledge that there is forum functionality which we could use
<rodarvus> Edubuntu users will have to navigate (and register) somewhere else to ask why their intsallation failed
<bimberi> ogra: the ubuntuforums people might be able to give you all the control you want
<pips1> as i said, technically, there aren't any real problems, it is more an issue of deciding how we go forward as a community ... i.e. if we want to improve the website, we want the current edubuntu community members on board, contributing content to the website, taking on moderation roles, proof reading content and approve content, etc.
<JaneW> ogra: that's what I thought you meant, but your response sounded like a 'no, that's out of the question' :P
<ogra> rodarvus, well, our audience willl be totally different 
<JaneW> rodarvus, your arguments are good
<rodarvus> ogra: not "totally" different
<ogra> but i agree that this is a valid point :)
<JaneW> BUT the current set-up can be pretty newbie-harsh
<highvoltage> yep
<rodarvus> JaneW: in the same way it is newbie-harsh to non-edubuntu customers
<ogra> rodarvus, "how do i get content into this or that edu app" will be more intresting for them than how do i set up a lvm install
<pips1> ogra: yes, i think so too
<ogra> they are teacher *using* the system 
<ogra> we're not talking about general support
* jsgotangco will have to skip his opinion on this since he is not experienced with the education sector
<RichEd> could there be a Edubuntu user front end, with education specific usability & adoption topics seperate, but pointing tech support install issues etc. back to ubuntu forums / help resources
<ogra> its rather about the use in schools 
<ogra> thats a good compromise
<rodarvus> RichEd: that could be a good option
<rodarvus> a really good one, actually
<pips1> so what if we start a educational topic-related forum on drupal and ask ubuntuforums to have a edubuntu-technical forum (mainly LTSP) over at ubuntuforums? does that make sense? 
<ogra> the big value in having a drupal forum on our (separated) webserver would be that we could use the forum DB for we content
<jsgotangco> you will have 2 database of users 
<ogra> *web
<rodarvus> jsgotangco: no, the proposal would be to have the same database
<rodarvus> with different frontends
<jsgotangco> how will you do that?
<ogra> yes we'd need to use LP accounts
<ogra> as everywhere in ubuntu
<jsgotangco> LP is a good compromise but doesn't work in ubuntuforums
<pips1> yes, we definitely need LP accounts for our drupal site...
<ogra> it has an API 
<rodarvus> ogra: I believe you are also underestimating the noise the ubuntuforums community can make :)
<ogra> so for free software it should be possible to write something to use LP
<JaneW> yes that could work, but there's still the sep login issue...
<rodarvus> they could get really angry if we just create another completely new forum
<RichEd> how about this view ... ALL edubuntu users are also ubuntu users, but not all ubuntu users are edubuntu users ?
<ogra> rodarvus, totally no, thats why i'm voting for a separate forum ;)
<jsgotangco> correct
<RichEd> i.e. edubuntu and education people are a subset ?
<jsgotangco> yes
<ogra> yes
<rodarvus> RichEd: correct
<ogra> s/no/not/
<pips1> rodarvus: it would be a "specialised" forum for educators. the technical stuff could stay together with the other technical stuff in ubuntuforums...
<rodarvus> anyhow, I propose we "write down" on Wiki the pros and cons of the two options
<ogra> rodarvus, i'm also fine taking the blame for such a decision ...
<RichEd> so they could have a surface layer of education specific help, but go back to the base for "desktop" help ...
<rodarvus> pips1: if this is well kept in mind, then it could work
<pips1> RichEd: correct
<pips1> rodarvus, I have already written a fair amount on this topic in the wiki
<jsgotangco> well for what its worth, looking for info in the forums is like wading through the amazon
<rodarvus> I'd be ok, but this needs to be *clearly stated* in the educational forum :)
<jsgotangco> so i guess a separate edu-specific forum would be useful
<ogra> rodarvus, i'm rather worried about the noise the ubuntuforums make inside a edu folder there :)
<ogra> (on their own servers)
<pips1> rodarvus RichEd have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhilippSchroeder
<ogra> if i go to the forums i'm scared about the hackish  workarounds etc after 10 mins of reading ... i wouldnt want to scare our teachers away through getting bad advise that trashes their system
<rodarvus> ok, I don't have any other objections, then - was just trying to make sure we are not diverging too much from Ubuntu itself :)
<jsgotangco> right
<RichEd> pips1: tx will do ... JaneW says you are very helpful :)
<pips1> in particular https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWebsitePlan and https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunityIntegration
<rodarvus> pips1: thanks for the links, I'll read through them asap
<ogra> btw, its desired that we make more use of the blueprint system in LP in the future for future releases ...
<ogra> i.e. such things should have a spec for edgy+1 stuff 
<rodarvus> *nods* completely agreed
<jsgotangco> wow 1 hour meeting
<ogra> please point users with ideas to launchpad for that :)
<ogra> yeah, time is over 
<pips1> ogra: I agree compeletely, we definitely need to avoid those *hackish* workaround solutions on our website... that's why I think we need people to proof read content (i.e. *you* for technical things) before it gets published on the official edubuntu website!
<ogra> anything majorly important from anyone ? 
<ogra> pips1, if i had the time i'd do it ...
<jsgotangco> drupal will be good for that
<ogra> but mdz already complained in my performance review that i do too much non packaging/devel related stuff that distracts me ... i have to cut that down in the future :)
<pips1> so did we come to a general consensus that we will now go with an education-specific forum on our drupal website, then?
<JaneW> ogra, do you still report into him?
<pips1> hmm
<JaneW> pips1, +1
<ogra> JaneW, yes
<JaneW> ogra: oic
<RichEd> pips1 : would you like to work through pro's & cons with me ... and then we can put forward a suggestion for a vote ?
<ogra> JaneW, i'm still working in the distroteam as well as in the edubuntu team
<rodarvus> JaneW: also I do
<rodarvus> I believe ogra and I will report to two different persons now :)
<pips1> RichEd: yes, very much so
<ogra> ok, lets finish the meeting here and move over to our own room :)
<JaneW> yes maybe finalise decision next week, after props and cons and present findings and recommendations next meeting
<ogra> going once 
<rodarvus> JaneW: agreed
<ogra> going twice 
<JaneW> ogra: what happend last week with EC?
<JaneW> gone
<ogra> meeting adjourned ... 
<ogra> thanks everyone ;)
<JaneW> thanks for having me :)
<pips1> ta everyone!
<highvoltage> sorry for missing the meeting from my side :(
<jsgotangco> cheers cheers
<RichEd> thanks all ...
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: its ok we all know you had an executive meeting of sorts *g*
<ogra> jsgotangco, no, he was buyin a tie :P
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ah, ok. good then :)
<JaneW> haha
<jsgotangco> wahahahaa
* JaneW wants to see highvoltage in a tie!
<highvoltage> ogra: i'll wear my tie next time ;)
<highvoltage> JaneW: don't laugh, I actually bought a tie two months ago
<ogra> as a belt ? 
* jsgotangco imagines highvoltage in a tie then walking at champs elysse
* highvoltage > #edubuntu
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 22:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 16:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jul 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @shjcedule rome
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 13 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<zul> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 09:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jenda> robitaille: could i ask you to rebook the Marketing Team meeting to 20:00 UTC tomorrow? That was my mistake.
<jenda> please? ;)
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jul 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<robitaille> jenda,  done
<jenda> thanks
* jenda nudges robitaille gently on the shoulder
<robitaille> jenda,  yes?
<jenda> I'm so, so incredibly sorry, but it seems it wasn't the fridge that was wrong, but the MT wiki.
<robitaille> so you want 19:00 utc?  :)
<jenda> Yes, please :)
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jul 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<robitaille> it's back :)
<Seveas> robitaille, I found the bug that caused ubotu not to update
<Seveas> (and of course fixed it)
<robitaille> Seveas,  that's great news.
<FunnyLookinHat> What was the decision on moving ubuntu off freenode after yesterday's CC?  I had to leave early.  : (
<FunnyLookinHat> hope it's staying  : )
<uniq> no decision was made.
<FunnyLookinHat> Ah ok.
<uniq> i personally think oftc looks very ubuntuish and democratic and nice. though.. 
<uniq> well.. have to go to bed.. nite.
<jenda> FunnyLookinHat: the decision was deferred to the next meeting, expecting the sabdfl's say and more reasoning from the pro-move side.
<jenda> (err... a wiki describing the reasons, not more reasoning)
<FunnyLookinHat> Ahhh ok.  Yea it seemed that the discussion seemed to keep going in circle around the point of "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
<jenda> yep
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-13
<Amaranth> @schedule Chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 13 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 14:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jsgotangco> @schedule Manila
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 13 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 03:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 21:00: Kubuntu | 19 Jul 04:00: Technical Board | 20 Jul 04:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<bluefoxicy> @schedule EDT
<bluefoxicy> help me.
<bluefoxicy> that's like 3am ok
<bluefoxicy> well i'm not on the development team so hmm.
<sharms> @detroit
<robitaille> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Jul 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<robitaille> @schedule PDT
<robitaille> @schedule America/Vancouver
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Vancouver: 13 Jul 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 12:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 06:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 13:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 13 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 22:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 16:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sharms> @schedule America/Detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 09:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<pygi> @schedule Croatia
<neuralis> @schedule CEST
<neuralis> weird; it doesn't know about CEST.
<neuralis> @schedule Zagreb
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zagreb: 13 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<neuralis> pygi: there.
<pygi> neuralis, eh :)
<pygi> thanks :)
<mdz> morning all
<Mithrandir> hiya, mdz
<ogra> *yawn*
<mdz> Kamion,seb128,Keybuk,dholbach,doko,sfllaw,rodarvus,Riddell,iwj,BenC: ping
<ogra> morning
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<fabbione> hellp
<fabbione> -p+o
<pitti> hello
<BenC> mdz: pong
* Mithrandir sends a "we're frozen" mail to u-d-a
<mdz> brrrrr
<sfllaw> mdz: I woke up to take my drugs.
<sfllaw> Thanks all for merging my packages.
<fabbione> BenC: hey dude
<sfllaw> I'm going back to sleep now.  Unless you really need me.
<mdz> sfllaw: still not feeling well I take it?
<Riddell> morning all
<sfllaw> Yeah.  Saw the doctor, she prescribed antibiotics.
<mdz> sfllaw: ugh.  rest up, let us know how you're doing tomorrow
<sfllaw> Will do.
<mdz> europe is late this morning
<Kamion> morning
<ogra> nah, that only looks like :)
<sivang> re
<mdz> fschoep: welcome.  is Ken inbound as well?
* Keybuk rubs coffee into his eyes
<fschoep> I'm not sure, I haven't really spoken to him about this. Didn't he contact you about his attendance?
<mdz> fschoep: yes, he said he would be here
<fschoep> OK, then I guess he will be here shortly.
<Amaranth> wow i made it
<ogra> hey Amaranth :)
<pitti> hi Keybuk, moin iwj
<mdz> rodarvus: good morning
<rodarvus> mdz: good morning!
<fabbione> hey rodarvus 
<mdz> waiting for seb128, dholbach, doko and kwwii
<rodarvus> hey fabbione
* fabbione rants towards his wife for not delivering on schedule and being 1 hour late
<mdz> fabbione: hmm?
<ogra> 1h ?
<fabbione> mdz: the term was this morning.. same as UVF :)
<fabbione> mdz: and now she is late ;)
<doko> mdz: pong
<Mithrandir> fabbione: tell her she's a slacker?
<Mithrandir> fabbione: but don't say I said it
<ogra> you didnt make a clear schedule i guess :)
<fabbione> Mithrandir: that means asking for divorce ;)
<pitti> fabbione: '1 hour late' means she's delivering *now*??
<mdz> fabbione: she is more than 1 hour late, or you should not be here ;-)
<fabbione> mdz: more than one hour.. yeah
<mdz> ok, time to get started
<rodarvus> fabbione: that means you're going for cesaria? (is this the correct word in english?)
<mdz> dholbach: do you know where seb is?
<Amaranth> everyone just says "c section"
<mdz> rodarvus: caesarian
<fabbione> rodarvus: only after 2 weeks delay.
<dholbach> mdz: no, sorry - but he's aware of the meeting
<mdz> BenC: you're up first
<dholbach> ah, there he comes
<rodarvus> mdz: thanks
<BenC> do I paste?
<fabbione> it's all in the wiki..
<mdz> BenC: yes, please
<pitti> well, we read all our stanzas already, didn't we?
<BenC> Done
<BenC>     *
<BenC>       cfq-by-default: DONE.
<BenC>     *
<BenC>       libata-for-all-ata-disks: BLOCKED. Still need to do boot loader stuff.
<BenC>     *
<BenC>       linux-kernel-crash-dump: IN PROGRESS. Cleaning up the userspace tools and scripts.
<BenC>     *
<BenC>       merges: kernel-wedge and kernel-package finally merged from Debian today.
<BenC> To do
<BenC>     *
<BenC>       Finish linux-kernel-crash-dump.
<BenC>     *
<BenC>       Start on boot loader changes for UUID conversion (libata-for-all-ata-disks)
<BenC>     *
* pitti thought the point of the wiki was to avoid large pastes
<BenC>       Start pushing bug reports from linux-source-2.6.15 to linux-source-2.6.17. Get some testing on whether 2.6.17 fixes any of these.
<BenC> wow, that was ugly
<mdz> pitti: no, the point was to make the data available prior to the meeting for review
<Keybuk> err, I thought we were supposed to read the wiki
<Keybuk> not paste
<BenC> I sort of did too :)
<mdz> it's much more discussion-friendly to have it copied here
<mdz> but if you copy from the wiki, copy the raw text and not the HTML :-P
<BenC> point taken :)
<mdz> Keybuk: scary boot stuff is on your list, right?
<fschoep> sorry to ask this, but which wiki page are you referring to? (first time)
<mdz> (for libata-for-all-disks)
<Kamion> I'm happy to do the partman changes
<Keybuk> mdz: yup, migration for base-files are on my list
<pitti> fschoep: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistroTeamMeeting20060713
<mdz> fschoep: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistroTeamMeeting20060713
<ogra> fschoep, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistroTeamMeeting20060713
<Keybuk> installer is probably Kamion's list
<Amaranth> heh
<Keybuk> and BenC was going to do boot loaders himself
<Kamion> it's not on my list, but I'll do it this coming week
<Kamion> (as soon as the installer works well enough to test)
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks BenC
<mdz> Mithrandir: next?
<Mithrandir> * misc: Merges, merges, merges. X is, hopefully, in shape now, lacking apps and mesa (but mesa is being worked on and apps is trivial). Also poked a bit at the uninstallable list so we can end up with a knot not too much delayed.
<Mithrandir> * Specs: no progress due to abovementioned work.
<Mithrandir> * Next week: Get knot-1 out, start working on specs, get X completely in shape.
<Mithrandir> * Blocked on: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/edgy_probs.html shows a few problems.  We need to get the uninstallable count _down_.
<mdz> mesa seems to be the final blocker for ubuntu-desktop
<Mithrandir> we're also in the first knot freeze now, so please don't upload stuff to main without approval from me.
<mdz> rodarvus was working on it earlier
<Mithrandir> iirc, rodarvus did that last night.
<mdz> xorg is still uninstallable though
<rodarvus> mesa was uploaded last night
<rodarvus> but has new dependency on lesstif
<rodarvus> which mdz asked me to remove
<Kamion> Mithrandir: seems a little early for knot freeze given that the installer hasn't ever been tried in edgy yet
<mdz> correc
<mdz> t
<Kamion> I expect quite a lot of changes still
<fabbione> rodarvus: if you want to brief me, i can do it this morning
<Kamion> debian-installer built everywhere but amd64; I'll work on that this morning
<Mithrandir> Kamion: do you expect any big changes already?  Apart from you having done the merge of doom?
<Kamion> Mithrandir: I don't know :-)
<mdz> Mithrandir: you intend to release knot 1 whenever it's ready?
<rodarvus> fabbione: that would be *very* kind of you, I'll do it right after the meeting then (it was non-obvious to me what to do to completely remove lesstif from mesa)
<fabbione> robitaille: let's take that on -x later
<Kamion> history suggests that it takes a few days from first d-i merge to usability
<Mithrandir> mdz: yes.
<mdz> Mithrandir: is there a list of blockers in the wiki somewhere?
<fabbione> rodarvus: ^^
<Kamion> but we can see how fast we can do it
<Mithrandir> mdz: edgy_probs is what I'm using so far.
<rodarvus> fabbione: *nods*
<Mithrandir> Kamion: I expect the freeze to last a few days, so that's fine, IMO.
<Kamion> ok
<Mithrandir> hopefully, we'll be able to release tomorrow, but if we don't, we don't.
<ogra> dreams ...
<Mithrandir> the first release is always painful, but we need to get it out.
<mdz> Mithrandir: edgy_probs is a start, but it doesn't account for everything
<Mithrandir> mdz: I'll create a wiki page, then.
<mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
<Mithrandir> Knot1ReleaseProblems or something like that.
<Mithrandir> ReleaseBlockers, maybe.
<mdz> I was thinking we also ought to get the procedure written up for preparing a milestone
<Mithrandir> there's a spec about that.
<mdz> like the one we have for beta and final
<Mithrandir> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MilestoneRhythm
<mdz> both so that we don't forget things, and so that we can back one another up
<mdz> I wonder how the livefs builds are doing; does anyone have access to those other than infinity who is ill?
<Kamion> yes
<Mithrandir> the logs are public.
<Kamion> although I probably can't do the initial setup
<Kamion> (I can only trigger them)
<Mithrandir> I can trigger them too
<mdz> rodarvus: once mesa is fixed and built, please ask someone to trigger livefs builds and see what comes out
<Mithrandir> we kinda need infinity (or somebody with equal powers) to get the fakeroot build hand-bootstrapped on amd64 too.
<mdz> Mithrandir: ah yes, MilestoneRhythm
<rodarvus> mdz: sure
<Mithrandir> s/kinda//
<Kamion> IIRC there was something else that needed bootstrapping too
<Mithrandir> Kamion: gcc on ppc?
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: nobody has equal powers to infinity, sadly
<mdz> Mithrandir: if anything turns up missing during knot 1, be sure to add it to the spec
<Kamion> if we can summon lamont, he can probably still do it; although IIRC the machine lockdown meant some of the buildds were out
<Kamion> Mithrandir: yep
<Mithrandir> mdz: yup, will remember that.
<fabbione> Kamion: no lamont can't afaik. he has no LP access yet
<mdz> Keybuk: we need to fix that
<Kamion> mdz: ubiquity totally won't work yet - I'm not sure we'll get it out for knot 1
<Kamion> fabbione: he can log into the boxes though
<mdz> Kamion: what does it need?
<mdz> fabbione: https://launchpad.net/people/launchpad-buildd-admins
<Kamion> fabbione: he's in launchpad-buildd-admins too, which IIRC is now sufficient for everything except er I think it's chroot
<Kamion> management
<mdz> fabbione: that was only when buildd admins needed LP admin rights, which is no longer true
<Kamion> mdz: it's sort of like a merge only not
<Keybuk> Kamion: buildd admins only grants you UI permissions, not the access to the right boxes
<mdz> Kamion: only knot?
<Kamion> mdz: needs an update to new d-i source and fixing of whatever breaks as a result
<Kamion> mdz: that too
<Mithrandir> can we have this discussion after the meeting?  It's certainly needed, but it'll take too much time now.
<mdz> edgy milestones will make great pun opportunities
<mdz> Mithrandir: after the meeting is very very early in the morning for some of us ;-)
<Kamion> let's move on, anyway
<mdz> Mithrandir: but I think we've covered the basics; please announce your wiki page on -devel-announce when it's up
<Mithrandir> mdz: willdo.
<mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
<mdz> dholbach: up next
<dholbach> Done
<dholbach>  * easier-motuing: started off, announced to motu list, started mentor page, wiki categorization - I'd be happy for people to join in on MOTU/Mentors and more importantly MOTU/School/Requests.
<dholbach>  * nearly everything of GNOME 2.15.4 and merges
<dholbach>  * ubuntu-artwork update.
<dholbach>  * bug triage
<dholbach> To do
<dholbach>  * more bug triage,
<dholbach>  * GNOME updates for dapper-updates,
<dholbach>  * HUG DAY next week
<dholbach>  * get cracking on Galago and Telepathy.
<mdz> dholbach: is 2.15.4 complete?
<Mithrandir> ooh, telepathy.  Shiny.
<dholbach> there were some new tarballs during the night, but not much
<Keybuk> dholbach: can you get the licences right to telepathy this time? :)
<mdz> someone needs to look into the gnome-applets build failure: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-applets/2.15.1.1-0ubuntu2
<dholbach> mdz: should be done in a bit
<dholbach> Keybuk: yes, will spend more time on it
<mdz> something to do with python-gnome2-desktop
<Keybuk> mdz: that's just due to uninstallables, isn't it?
<seb128> mdz: it built on i386, isn't the other arch an instability from gnome-python-desktop issue?
<mdz> Keybuk: yes, but I haven't traced it to its root
<seb128> mdz: right, not a gnome-applets bug ... I'll have a look after meeting
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks dholbach
<dholbach> how often are mass givebacks done or builds retried?
<mdz> doko: next
<Keybuk> the buildds still have ~3 days of building to do
<doko> Done
<doko>  * toolchain-roadmap / gcc-ssp: investigate powerpc problems, rebootstrap a working gnat-4.1, needs a manual build on the buildd. rework the ssp-default patch (only turn on ssp for C, C++, ObjC, ObjC++).
<doko>  * python-roadmap: conversions for packages in main to the updated python policy.
<doko>  * syncs/merges: outstanding python syncs/merges, java syncs needed for eclipse & azureus, various random syncs/merges
<doko>  * openoffice.org: dapper security update
<Keybuk> dholbach: rarely
<doko>  * SoC nagging.
<doko> To do
<doko>  * specs: packaging-hints is next
<doko>  * openoffice.org: breezy security update, openoffice.org 2.0.3 dapper/edgy builds
<dholbach> Keybuk: that explains a great deal :)
<mdz> Keybuk: really? the i386 queue seemed quite short the last time I looked
<mdz> and the last time I checked we could build the entire archive in a few days ;-)
<Keybuk> mdz: i386 didn't have much to build ... 
<Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+builds?build_state=pending
<Keybuk> sparc can't build more than a package a day ;)
* fabbione larts Keybuk 
<Keybuk> it's slower than the ia64 buildd
<fabbione> we have 2 32 cPU sparcs at the DC...
<Keybuk> fabbione: that's nice.  make them build faster
<fabbione> i wish we could use them properly but LP has no concept of parallel build on one host
<fabbione> Keybuk: they are not the buildd unfortunatly
<mdz> doko: is main finished for python-roadmap?
<doko> mdz: I have to check
<rodarvus> fabbione, Keybuk: is it not possible to install launchpad buildd on same machine, in paralel ports?
<neuralis> fabbione: i can soon contribute a sparc to be used as a buildd, if it's not a problem that it's not in the dc.
<mdz> doko: ok, thanks
<mdz> ogra: next
<fabbione> neuralis: no you can't. sorry.
<ogra>  * last-week: g-p-m merge and update, common buildsystem some progress but not finished, voip meeting with scott balneaves about packaging basics, edubuntu-seeds ready for the first milestone CD
<ogra>  * next-week: buildscripts for ltsp-daily-image-tarballs, common buildsystem finishing, knot 1 CD
<ogra>  * specs: 
<ogra>   - student-control-panel-completion: (drafting)
<ogra>   - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs: (started)
<ogra>   - ltsp-convergence: (common buildsystem switch still in progress)
<ogra>   - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: (mknbi in main, bug fix needed)
<ogra>   - thinclient-local-devices (started)
<mdz> pitti: I asked ogra to hold off on g-p-m until the hal stuff was ready; I understand you're aware of it
<pitti> mdz: yes, since yesterday
<pitti> before I thought this was all experimental stuff since new hal isn't released yet and policykit is still under discussion
<doko> pitti: please check "deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/gcc-powerpc/ ./"
<mdz> speaking of voip, those of you who haven't set up ekiga with the asterisk server yet, please do.  it'll be awfully convenient for teleconferencing
<pitti> ogra, seb128: if we do need the new hal, then I need to allocate a day to package it and policykit and give it some auditing
<mdz> pitti: apparently new g-p-m will not do suspend/hibernate at all without it
<seb128> pitti: my understanding is that g-s-t will use it soon, but not sure if that's mandatory or not
<ogra> pitti, that would be nice, else bigger parts of g-p-m have to be rewritten
<pitti> mdz: ^ this will make it subject to the gnome UVF exception?
<seb128> what carlos showed us at GUADEC is that he has some code using policykit to "unlock" the admin features by example
<mdz> pitti: one way or another it gets an exception because we need it
<ogra> seb128, thats cool :)
<Kamion> we sort of had g-p-m in the gnome uvf exception for dapper, though only de facto because Kinnison asked for it lots
<pitti> seb128: TBH I'm *terribly* scared of sidetracking unix users and implementing a parallel user and permissions infrastructure; I want to take a close look at it
<seb128> ogra: I thought so before pitti complained about policykit :p
<ogra> heh
<doko> Keybuk, Kamion: do the outdated python2.x packages need manual removal intervention?
<ogra> well, we have a valid reason for it now :)
<Keybuk> doko: almost certainly
<mdz> pitti: if you can mail me some pointers to info about it, I'm interested
<seb128> Kamion: it was not part of the desktop upstream for 2.14, it'll probably be for 2.16
<Kamion> doko: yes, I'll look at that once all the builds have settled down
<ogra> doko, what about the schooltool stuff on edgy_probs ? 
<Keybuk> doko: though don't we need transition packages?
<pitti> mdz: yep, will do
<Kamion> Keybuk: no, we have Provides
<mdz> ogra: ok, thanks
<mdz> Kamion: next
<Keybuk> Kamion: provides won't replace them on users desktops
<Kamion> done: Basically nothing but merges; continued helping out with X on and off. Fixed installer security bug #48350. Some more oem-config reorganisation (nearly there, just need to make it work in the new world order now).
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48350 in shadow "Backing up from final installation dialog results in blank root password" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48350
<Kamion> merge-status: All done except for installation-guide, due to lack of time. I'd like to request an exception to do this immediately after UVF; it's just documentation and there's nothing it can break.
<Kamion> next-week: Get the first round of CD images going and fix installer bugs until it's ready for knot-1; all the pieces are there now so it'll just be iterative debugging. If possible, make ubiquity work in edgy. Start work on ubiquity-advanced-partitioner and/or revive-tasksel.
<Kamion> plus this partman stuff for libata
<Kamion> Keybuk: there's replaces/conflicts too, and users mostly just install them via dependencies rather than directly so it should be ok
<Kamion> putting in transitional packages would negate most of our gains, I feel
<mdz> Kamion: no worries about installation-guide
<Kamion> I'll probably do that between the cracks today
<Kamion> it tends to take a while, we have a BIG branding patch
<mdz> I'd consider working ubiquity a blocker for a real milestone
<Kamion> ok, I'll see what I can do - will be hard to get it working until livefses are active though
<mdz> Kamion: even so, I think our big branding patch is insufficient; last I looked there were still bits which were incorrect  for ubuntu
<mdz> Kamion: with any luck we'll have livefses later today
<Kamion> mdz: that seems likely; please let me know any time you spot any of those
<mdz> Kamion: I suggest submitting it to the doc team for review
<Kamion> yeah, I guess that makes sense
<mdz> thanks Kamion
<mdz> fabbione: next?
<fabbione> * done: merges, merges and merges.
<fabbione> * merge-status: miss only redhat cluster suite that has huge infrastructural changes from the version in dapper. I might need a couple of more days before i can upload something sane.
<fabbione> * todo: complete the redhat-cluster update as top priority. Go on with specs.
<Kamion> I just don't want to end up having the doc team totally rewrite it such that I can never merge it with Debian again :)
<mdz> Kamion: good point, be sure to explain
<mdz> fabbione: sounds good, thanks
<ogra> hey RichEd welcome to the distro team meeting :)
<RichEd> morning ...
<mdz> Riddell: next
<Riddell> done: 
<Riddell>  merges: all main Kubuntu merges done. universe pleasingly close too 
<Riddell>  kubuntu-launchpad-integration: implemented 
<Riddell> next week: 
<Riddell>  knot 1, kubuntu-easy-zeroconf 
<Riddell> specs: mornfall not bountying for adept specs, I plan to break out the commercial repository support and dist-upgrade tool to new specs
<Kamion> thanks for doing the Kubuntu seed merge
<mdz> Riddell,ogra: you guys both did your seed merges, right?
<ogra> yep
<Kamion> the supported seed should be a lot more manageable in future
<mdz> I think I remmeber seeing -meta uploads from both of you
<Riddell> mdz: yes, and kubuntu-meta update
<mdz> Riddell: any known blockers for kubuntu knot 1 so far?
<Riddell> mdz: there's a few packages uninstallable for small reasons, I'll look at those today
<mdz> ok, thanks
<mdz> pitti: next
<pitti> Done
<pitti>  * vast amount of merges and sync reviews; I have some updated merges, but I already did those which bring in new upstream versions.
<pitti>  * cups and dovecot fixes for dapper
<pitti>  * security updates
<pitti>  * automated-problem-reports: initial work, now collects all information except stack frame image and list of package dependencies; I'm currently fighting with some weird behaviour (forever-hanging gdb) when then agent is called by the kernel helper, this might need some discussion with BenC
<pitti>  * dug a good way into my bug mail, but did not get through yet
<pitti> To do
<pitti>  * remaining merges which do not bring in new upstream versions
<pitti>  * fix automated-problem-reports to be more robust, release initial package to universe
<pitti>  * get OO.o security update for breezy with doko
<pitti>  * grab Adam for PHP security stuff; this has been dragged far too long
<pitti>  * catch up on bug mail
<pitti>  * fix the mysterious apt-ftparchive failure on the daily langpacks
<mdz> pitti: I'm not sure when adam will be back at 100%; is there anyone else who can help with php?
<pitti> mdz: I can do it myself probably, but adam already has done a good part of the work
<Mithrandir> mdz: I thought fabbione did a merge of it?
<pitti> Mithrandir: for stables
<mdz> pitti: please file a bug about the apt-ftparchive failure if you haven't already; I'll look into it if I have time before mvo gets back
<Mithrandir> oh, or that was PHP security.  Sorry.
<pitti> mdz: oh, it's a bit more tricky, I'll tell you in #u-d if you like
<fabbione> mdz: i did the merge for edgy.....
<mdz> pitti: ok, thanks
<fabbione> that's it
<mdz> fabbione: yes, thank you
<pitti> mdz: so, php would take me a lot longer than him
<mdz> fschoep: you're up
<fschoep> Specification: art-polish-human-icons
<fschoep> Contacted Michiel Sikma to discuss his vision on the consistency and state of the Human icon set. Trying to figure out who is going to do the actual icon production, contacted Mark. Creating list of icons that need work, scheduled for completion on the 23rd of July.
<fschoep> Specifications: ubuntu-art-login-manager, ubuntu-art-login-splash, ubuntu-art-usplash, ubuntu-art-wallpaper
<fschoep> Finished the Ponder phase this week, collecting texture and material references, Troy James Sobotka provided excellent samples. Kicked-off of the Propose phase, compositional ideas can now roll in. Seemingly slow progress in this phase up until now, will stir up the discussion soon. Contacted Daniel Holbach to start working out packaging details for the Human theme and Theme Team themes.
<pitti> mdz: I'll talk to him, maybe he can send me his current work
<fschoep> Specification: ubuntu-art-cd-dvd-artwork
<fschoep> No progress yet, need contacts to start this up, all help appreciated.
<fschoep> Specification: ubuntu-art-complete-highcontrast-icons
<fschoep> Contacted Henrik Nilsen Omma for startup, will continue drafting and expanding the specification by walking through a default Dapper installation and identifying missing and unusable icons.
<fschoep> Non-specification: Theme Teams
<fschoep> The 13th of July marks the end of the Theme Team application process, up until now three (one man) teams have applied for creating a Dash, Peace and Tropic theme for Edgy. Will now document, kick off and start managing the progress of these teams.
<fschoep> Specification: art-polish-human-gtk-theme
<fschoep> Searched for documentation on creating and editing GTK2 themes on Google, GTK-org and GNOME-org, little found up until now. Any help here is greatly appreciated since the Theme Teams are begging for this information as well. Im going to try apt-sourcing Dapper artwork packages for clues next.
<mdz> fschoep: that's the list which is scheduled for completion on the 23rd, or the icons themselves?
<fschoep> Specification: ubuntu-art-colour-palette-policy
<fschoep> I think weve made a lot of progress not only defining colors, but also locking down textures and materials for Edgys default artwork during the Ponder phase in the community artwork process. Im not sure if this specification is still useful.
<fschoep> Specification: art-sok-layout-colours
<fschoep> Scheduled to start identifying needs on the 7th of August, 2006 and produce layouts shortly afterwards to prevent overlap with the High Contrast icon theme work.
<fschoep> Non-specification: Dapper Artwork Backport
<fschoep> There doesnt seem to be a specification for this. I contacted Colin Watson as suggested by Mark to get a clear view on what were going to accomplish and more importantly, when. Once this gets fleshed out, I think we should make a spec.
<fschoep> Non-specification: Theme Selector
<fschoep> Will write a specification on this before the 16th of July and submit it for approval. Basically this is about having the GNOME Theme Preferences panel control more artwork items than currently possible. One thing that comes to mind is the login splash image.
<Amaranth> ...whoa
<fschoep> mdz: the list
<mdz> fschoep: what kind of contacts do you need for cd-dvd-artwork?
<fschoep> Sorry guys, first time - I'm a bit more verbose than you :)
<Kamion> fschoep: oh, I haven't replied yet, but that's DapperPointReleaseProcess
<fschoep> mdz: contacts regarding the technical specs (file format) and who is going to approve designs, what CD sleeve design we want (Dapper-like, or...)
<Kamion> fschoep: first point release is tentatively first week of August
<mdz> fschoep: Jane Silber should be your point of contact
<fschoep> Kamion: thanks, I'll look into that.
<dholbach> fschoep: i started working on example packages and buildsystems for iconsets/... i'll tell you once you can make use of them and i'll reply to your mail after the meeting
<fschoep> mdz: Right, thanks a bunch.
<fschoep> dholbach: OK, great.
<fschoep> By the way, should I cut the verbosity in my status updates :)?
<mdz> Kamion: I was thinking we may not make that target, depending on how things go with ubiquity
<mdz> Kamion: will we be able to do a fairly clean backport of an edgy-tested ubiquity to dapper, or will it be complicated?
<Kamion> mdz: the problem is that if we don't make that target then I'm (planning to be) on holiday and then it's edgy release stuff
<mdz> fschoep: a bit, yes
<Kamion> mdz: we can backport some bits but it will be more complicated than that; I don't fancy backporting the new partitioner
<mdz> Kamion: hmm, indeed
<Kamion> mdz: however, I do have a rough idea of the things that need to be fixed
<Kamion> mdz: they're essentially what's in DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues
<fschoep> mdz: OK, next time I'll be more in line with the rest of the team, and also update the Wiki beforehand.
<Kamion> and hacky workarounds for those should be fine
<mdz> Kamion: I am astounded by the number of bug reports filed against ubiquity with identical summaries and no attachments
<mdz> and often with the security flag set for no good reason ;-)
<Kamion> mdz: yes, one of the fixes in the dapper point release will be to extract tracebacks from subprocesses to avoid the identical-summaries thing
<mdz> fschoep: great, thanks
<Kamion> I have that fix tentatively for edgy already but haven't tested it yet
<mdz> fschoep: talk to Simon (sfllaw) about getting in the loop for having your status update on the wiki in advance as well
<mdz> Keybuk: next
<Keybuk> Done
<Keybuk>  * merges, merges and more merges
<Keybuk>  * much driving of Soyuz by hand ... come back infinity, all is forgiven!
<Keybuk>  * some minor MoM tweaks
<Keybuk> To do
<Keybuk>  * begin spec work
<Keybuk>   * find out AutomakeTransition status from Debian maintainer
<Keybuk>   * write base-files migration code for LibAtaForAtaDisks
<Keybuk>   * draw up detailed ReplacementInit project plan and begin
<Keybuk>  * examine recent `udev` upstream changes and decide whether UVF execption warranted for them
<mdz> Keybuk: any soyuz problems which should be on my radar to push for prioritization?
<Keybuk> it doesn't survive a reboot, but elmo now knows the runes to bring it back
<mdz> subscribe me to the bug and I'll poke about it
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> kwwii: next
<Keybuk> also when cron.daily gets long, you often lose buildd stuff
<kwwii> wiki stuff ... added philosophy, etc.
<kwwii> spec renaming, sorting out -- waiting for a launchpad bug to be fixed to go on with work
<kwwii> moving into the next phaze (propose)
<kwwii> .we have several new people intersted in kbuntu artwork, trying to keep that going
<kwwii> looking into new colors and textures (purple)
<kwwii> basic ideas for kdm, desktop splash, and wallpapers done.
<kwwii> last but not least, making a UI for bzr :-)
<mdz_> my desktop just crashed, back on from the laptop
<mdz_> Keybuk: /msg me what I missed?
<ogra> kwwii, you work on the SoC project ? 
<kwwii> ogra: only the UI for it, but yes
<ogra> :)
<ogra> nice to know :)
<kwwii> the kde UI I should say
<pygi> ogra, nop, he did a KDE UI for me ^_^ (I'll be working on KDE edition, the GTK one will be made by student)
<ogra> ah
<pygi> yes, I know what you think about KDE =P
<ogra> what do i think about KDE ?
<mdz_> kwwii: Riddell mentioned that you were uncertain about kubuntu-icons and how much could be done for edgy
* pygi shushes back to shadow ^_^
<mdz> (back from desktop)
<kwwii> mdz: yeah, we were thinking about including oxygen in edgy, but not sure if there is enough time for that
<mdz> kwwii: what's the issue? is oxygen incomplete?
<kwwii> mdz: exactly, and we would need to make sure it is complete enough to really use first
<mdz> hmm, ok
<kwwii> I guess this is something that should go on a wiki page...so that others could help or at least help decide
<mdz> please keep the status whiteboard up to date
<mdz> kwwii: that's a fine idea too
<kwwii> will do
<mdz> kwwii: thanks
<mdz> heno could not be here but provided an update:
<kwwii> sorry for being late, everyone...won't happen again
<mdz> Done
<mdz>  * sudo-admin-atspi: I've proposed a config panel change to seb and daniel. I can make the needed Glade changes if they agree.
<mdz>  * sok: alpha14 is looking good with a new default layout
<mdz>  * compiz-mag: My SoC student is ill so this is on hold for this week
<mdz>  * xubuntu-accessibility: XFCE have implemented sticky keys and friends in 4.4 so I want to add my vote to placing 4.4 in Edgy even if it's only an RC
<mdz> To do
<mdz>  * edgy-content: start collecting and organising content
<mdz>  * Other: 2 week holiday from Monday
<mdz> fschoep: if you need things from henrik, be sure to get in touch by the end of the week, since he'll be awway
<mdz> away
<fschoep> mdz: I see, will take this into account.
<mdz> Simon is ill but sent an update:
<mdz> Done
<mdz>  * Specs: edgy-testing, drinking-from-the-firehose
<mdz>  * Help dholbach a bit with UbuntuHugDay
<mdz>  * Get sick
<mdz> To do
<mdz>  * Thank people for merging WvDial and WvStreams
<mdz>  * Get better
<mdz>  * Convince BugSquad to start with edgy-testing
<mdz> seb128: next
<seb128> Done: merges from Debian, GNOME 2.15.4
<seb128> .
<seb128> Next week: looking at instability issues and GNOME packages not building, bugs catching up
<mdz> seb128: instability issues?
<mdz> or installability?
<dholbach> installability?
<seb128> (might make sense to have dholbach and I next to each other so if you have GNOME questions you don't have to ask them at different times)
<mdz> my desktop has become unstable but I can't blame GNOME
<seb128> installability, sorry
<mdz> seb128: yes, good idea; I will try to remember to enhance the script ;-)
<mdz> seb128: thanks
<fabbione> mdz: yes you can.. or at least... gtk ;)
<mdz> rodarvus: next
<rodarvus> Done this week
<rodarvus> * continued X merging (only missing is messa-lesstif fix + X apps, current status available at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/x-pkgs)
<rodarvus> * weekly Edubuntu meeting, met Richard Weideman (new Education Programme Manager, started 2006-07-14)
<rodarvus> Plans for next week
<rodarvus> * merge X apps
<rodarvus> * catchup with email (seriously left behind this week)
<rodarvus> * catchup with X bugs (+ get hold of basic X bug status/triaging with fabbione)
<rodarvus> * learn all procedures to master future Edubuntu Knot cds (with ogra)
<rodarvus> * hopefully help Richard catchup with Edubuntu
<rodarvus> * start working on specs
<mdz> fabbione: I don't know what's wrong with it; RAM might be going but it is ECC so I'd be surprised not to be warned
<mdz> crashed twice today
<pitti> rodarvus: a gold star for taking care of X!
<fabbione> mdz: heat?
<mdz> fabbione: happens just as much at night as during the day
<rodarvus> again, thanks for fabbione, Mithrandir and Kamion :)
<mdz> yes, thanks for helping rodrigo with X
<rodarvus> and props to the three of them too :)
<rodarvus> would be very huge stuff to do all by myself, and I would certainly get (even more) lost :)
<mdz> rodarvus: can you mail me and richard about setting up a time to talk?  I haven't met him yet
<rodarvus> mdz: sure
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> iwj: next
<ogra> mdz, RichEd is here :)
<iwj> Sorry this wasn't in the wiki; I didn't read warthogs yesterday.
<iwj> have been doing: Breaks and merges
<iwj> firefox merge: Done finally
<iwj> firefox theme change: Done and no doubt everyone has noticed
<iwj> automated-testing-deployment: Still BLOCKED on xen-edgy
<iwj> xen-edgy: Chuck Short expects to upload a kernel this weekend; the userland tools are apparently still broken
<iwj> package-dependency-field-breaks: Started on the actual implementation.  Well, actually, just reading the existing code to know exactly how to edit it: 4 bugs found and reported to Debian so far ...
<iwj> suggest-packages-for-filetypes: no further progress this week
<mdz> RichEd: hello then. let's set up a conference call with rodrigo sometime soon
<pitti> iwj: can you give us a quick status wrt. the firefox security backporting?
<RichEd> Let me know when 
<dholbach> iwj: will firefox need a rebuild everytime the icons change?
<fschoep> iwj: theme change - is that my stuff? Do we need to take a look at it in the near future?
<mdz> iwj: please update delivery status for xen-edgy; it's Unknown atm
<iwj> pitti: Err.  I've not been following it closely but it sounds like it's nearly done from the messages I've been seeing.
<dholbach> iwj: does firefox copy and ship the icons itself?
<iwj> dholbach: No.
<iwj> mdz: Willdo.
<pitti> iwj: that sounds promising
<mdz> dholbach: it depends on the theme package, which is a separate source
<iwj> fschoep: That's making your thing the default, yes.  I don't think you need to do anything since you're probably already using it.
<zul> iwj: hi i can do a status page in the wiki if that helps
<fschoep> iwj: it (the Ubuntu package) still needs some updating for the tab-close button.
<iwj> zul: You mean, add a bit at the bottom of the XenEdgy wiki page ?  That would be nice.
<mdz> zul: the status whiteboard in blueprint would be better, unless there's a lot to say
<zul> either or
<dholbach> ok, so the theme package has to be rebuilt every time the icons change? i'm just trying to figure out whom and when to ping :)
<fschoep> dholbach: yes, you are correct.
<iwj> dholbach: Yes, the theme package needs to be rebuilt.
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> merci
<mdz> dholbach: yes, firefox-themes-ubuntu build-deps on the artwokr
<mdz> artwork, even
<mdz> iwj: thanks
<fschoep> iwj: another thing I want to do with it is adding icons to actions like copy and paste in the menu
<ogra> fschoep, btw, gnome-power-manager will need a bunch of new icons ...
<mdz> did I miss anyone?  I had to reconstruct the list when my machine crashed
<ogra> upstream added a lot and renamed everything ...
<fschoep> ogra: can you send a list via e-mail?
<dholbach> ogra: let me look into it before everybody is in alarm :)
<ogra> dholbach, oki :)
<fschoep> I want icon requests in before the 23rd of July.
<mdz> heno: good morning; I pasted your update earlier and reminded fschoep to get in touch with you regarding his requests before your holiday
<heno> mdz: great, thanks
<mdz> any other very brief business before we adjourn?
<sivang> mdz: I thought I needed to provide and update, but I cna paste it on the wiki
<Mithrandir> I'm very happy we seem to have gotten the meeting down to an hour again.
<mdz> sivang: <mdz> did I miss anyone?  I had to reconstruct the list when my machine crashed
<sivang> oh sorry
<sivang> okay, pastes:
<sivang> Completed merges: notification-daemon, moin, dput, bittornado. Requested import of notify-python to be used in clean up tool and home user backup. Investigated libburn and its python bindings: lack of features, pyrex implementation, no upstream. For edgy we'll stick to the cdrecord wrapper, and attempt to polish it as much as we can. Started looking into merging the new home-user-backup GUI design, and also thought about how to enable backup no
<zul> mdz: i thought so as well but i dont have a paste
<mdz> zul: ok, in the future please type something up in advance, it really helps us move along faster
<zul> mdz: will do
<mdz> sivang: I don't much like the idea of having multiple implementations of cdrecord wrappers
<seb128> use libnautilus-burn :)
<iwj> sivang: your message was cut off after "and also thought about how to enable backup no".
<sivang> mdz: if there's one you know to be stable and would prefer me to use, I can do that, but at the time I couldn't find something that would allow me the flexability in reporting progress ot the frontend as mine does.
<sivang> iwj: ah, I'll repaste then?
<mdz> sivang: seb128 suggests libnautilus-burn
<iwj> No, just the end.
<ogra> sivang, only the missing bit
<sivang> mdz: it does not allow multi session cds handling nicely, that's why I implemented my own wrapper
<iwj> Very long pastes can get truncated.
<mdz> sivang: we're out of time, let's discuss on ubuntu-devel@lists
<sivang> mdz: also I'd like to be low on deps, which could be barrier for other derivatives if I depend on it
<seb128> sivang: why not contribution on libnautilus-burn to get the feature for it rather than starting a new implementation?
<mdz> thanks everyone
<sivang> mdz: sure
<mdz> adjourned, good night/morning
<pitti> thanke everyone
<seb128> thank you mdz
<dholbach> thanks
<doko> thanks
<rodarvus> thanks mdz
<RichEd> bye all ...
<ogra> thanks mdz 
<fabbione> night mdz
<RichEd> mdz: will send my contact details to yourself & rodarvus & orga re con call
<sivang> iwj , ogra , mdz : pasting the remaninig bit of my update:
<sivang>  enable backup notifications. SystemCleanUpTool 
<sivang>                 is still in review after I've applied Scott's last comments. I'd like to get it approved if there is no further 
<sivang>                 reservations on it.
<rodarvus> RichEd: nice, thanks!
<rodarvus> I was about to send you an email on the subject :)
<mdz> RichEd: thanks.  voip would be simplest to set up unless one of you can 3-way
<rodarvus> I'll just wait then
* rodarvus can't
* RichEd can't either
<ogra> my voip is broken currently through bug 52815
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52815 in gst-plugins "logitech usb headset sound output dies after 1 minute" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52815
<RichEd> busy building my new Edubuntu notebook over the weekend ... will check out VOIP options ... what about a chatroom meeting tomorrow some time ?
<Keybuk> sivang: I should have a chance to read that later today
<sivang> Keybuk: yay, thanks!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.doTopic True
<Seveas> @reload Webcal
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.doTopic True
<Seveas> @reload Webcal
<Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 13 Jul 22:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 16:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu
<bimberi> @schedule canberra
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Canberra: 14 Jul 05:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 23:00: Kubuntu | 19 Jul 06:00: Technical Board | 20 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
<simira> @schedule Oslo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
<FunnyLookinHat> @schedule central
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Canada/Central: 13 Jul 14:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 13 Jul 14:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu
<FunnyLookinHat> nixternal, you're in the ubuntu chicago promotions group, right?
<nixternal> yes sir
<FunnyLookinHat> Awesome.  I'm working in chicago right now but I'm moving out to colorado in about a month
<FunnyLookinHat> Any events coming up soon that I could get in on/
<nixternal> we are having a meeting at the Buffalo Wild Wings on the 27th in Elmhurst
<nixternal> that will be our first official meeting, and we will do a few presentations, and then plan a "Chicago Day's" event for an end of summer blowout
<FunnyLookinHat> Oh cool!
<nixternal> plus i should have a ton of CD's by then to hand out ;)
<nixternal> where are you at in chicago right now?
<nixternal> int he city itself?
<FunnyLookinHat> I've got my shipment of 10 CDs on the way...  I'd be more than willing to donate most of them to your group
<FunnyLookinHat> S. La Salle st. & Congress
<FunnyLookinHat> Western Union building near the board of trade
<FunnyLookinHat> I live in the north suburbs though...
<nixternal> i know exactly
<nixternal> i worked in the loop for many years
<nixternal> never again ;)
<FunnyLookinHat> Haha, good call.
<nixternal> im out by scumburg...but you say you are going to CO, you need to check out the CO group as well...their fearless leader is doing an amazing job with the group
<FunnyLookinHat> yea!  I saw him in the CC two days ago presenting
<FunnyLookinHat> I'm actually really looking forward to getting in on that group.  I've been so busy around here I never even really looked to see if there was a Chicago group  ^_^;;
<nixternal> ya, him and i are still awaiting our official confirmations ;)
<FunnyLookinHat> I'm working on getting into MOTU myself  : )
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<nixternal> there wasn't a chicago group until this last month
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 13 Jul 22:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 16:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu
<nixternal> i kind of figured you were heading that way, i see you in -motu all the time
<nixternal> im just now taking the rust out of my packaging skills...getting ready for edgy+1
<FunnyLookinHat> Yea...  I've been learnig how to use pbuilder and all.  I use to do a decent ammount of OSS programming but never built packages so this is all new to me
<nixternal> i haven't packaged in probably 8 years, because that is when i took a turn for the hard/sys admin stuff instead
<FunnyLookinHat> ahh ok, very cool.  Is that what you do for a job right now?
<FunnyLookinHat> (My dad used to work in Schaumberg for C. Beck and Associates, small medical education company)
<nixternal> right now i do ubuntu really...i decided at 32, i need a summer vacation ;)
<FunnyLookinHat> Good call!
<FunnyLookinHat> Too bad the chicago group didn't start earlier, or I would have totally worked with you all summer to get the chicago group started up  : )
<nixternal> i sold my house in hopes of moving to mexico (cabo), only to find out the house i purchased was used in an insurance scam
<FunnyLookinHat> Oh dang.
<nixternal> haha ya
<FunnyLookinHat> That stinks.  : (
<FunnyLookinHat> Wanna move out to Colo. with me?  ;)
<nixternal> so i kind of went homeless, but thank god for the family ;)
<nixternal> Colorado is good to visit for me, thats it
<nixternal> i need warm sun and sandy beaches
<FunnyLookinHat> yea, I've heard that for a lot of people
<FunnyLookinHat> Very cool stuff.  Well I should get back to actually working (irc can be so distracting)...  have a good afternoon
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> you too, talk to you later
<stefg> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
<troy_s> @schedule vancouver
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Vancouver: 13 Jul 12:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 06:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 13:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 05:00: Edubuntu
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 13 Jul 22:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 16:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Marketing Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<kgoetz> hm. it be time for the meeting 
<kgoetz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings#head-6baae27adfb4dc945b7a6d79d82a947cc82e49ec
<Seveas> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 13 2006, 19:00:54 - Current meeting: Marketing Team in 0 minute
<kgoetz> are we expecting jenda?
<Seveas> @reload Webcal
<Seveas> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 13 2006, 19:01:04 - Current meeting: Marketing Team in 1 minute
<Seveas> wtf
<Seveas> heh
<Klaidas> jenda, ping :)
<Seveas> BUG!
<kgoetz> hm. is Ubugtu's time correct?
<Seveas> kgoetz, no, It's a bug in the code
<kgoetz> ah ok. :)
<kgoetz> give a few more minutes for people to show then we have to start
<adamant1988> I'm here sorry.
<adamant1988> Give me a minute and then i'll get all involved and stuff.
<kgoetz> np. i'll ask us to start in 2-3 minutes
<kgoetz> (give teh 'fashonably late' people time to arive
* troy_s from artwork team is sitting in.  Watching... learning.
<bimberi> kgoetz: 'morning :)
<kgoetz> morning bimberi:)
<kgoetz> hope your in the west, nto teh east
<bimberi> 5am here
<kgoetz> ouch, easwt :|
<Klaidas> how did you get up so early? o_O
<kgoetz> bimberi: can you chair a meeting?
<kgoetz> Klaidas: i stayed up :| no sleep :|
<bimberi> only if forced
<bimberi> kgoetz: goodness me
<Klaidas> not sleeping is bad 
<kgoetz> bimberi: i officaly force you to run this meeting, agenda -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings#head-6baae27adfb4dc945b7a6d79d82a947cc82e49ec
<kgoetz> :(
<kgoetz> well keep the meeting short and i can be good again
<bimberi> Klaidas: i usually get up about 06:00 anyway :)
<adamant1988> ok, I'm here.
<kgoetz> could we start nowish mr bimberi? we are a few minutes late already :|
<bimberi> kgoetz: lets give the others a bit longer
<kgoetz> hi sara_,
<kgoetz> bimberi: ok :(
<troy_s> eek... how much longer?
<sara_> hello
<adamant1988> sorry, my fiance was heading out for work...
<a1ecks> gahh i've been busy
* kgoetz had givent them extra time
<kgoetz> bimberi: if we start in 3 mintues its 10 minutes late - nice round number :)
<bimberi> kgoetz: ok
* bimberi even pings jenda on OFTC :)
<kgoetz> (btw, if jenda shows up you can run the place or hand over to him, your option)
<sara_> i thogh I was late
<kgoetz> brb in < 3 minutes :D
<Klaidas> jenda, pingz0r :)
<a1ecks> what do you all think of this design (not finished) http://www.freemediaresources.com/sitedesigns/jaderabbit/
* kgoetz thinks jenda is well pingged
<bimberi> alright, item #1 is spreadubuntu
<kgoetz> bimberi: pls start us?
<kgoetz> ty
<bimberi> a bzr archive is up on launchpad - has anyone played with that yet?
<kgoetz> i have it at home, i dont have the tools avalable atm (on a live cd), read: yes, its posable to aquire it
<kgoetz> this might sound silly (with only 4/5 of us here), but should we put peoples items back if tehy arnt here? 
<bimberi> kk
<adamant1988> kgoetz, I think that's a good idea.
<sara_> +1
<bimberi> kgoetz: alright, however is there anyone here who has an item on the agenda
<kgoetz> bimberi: dont know , thats where it becomes a silly question :| ;)
<bimberi> :)
<sara_> nixternal ahd some stuff up
<adamant1988> is nixternal paying any attention though?
<kgoetz> nixternal: a1ecks others, anything on teh agenda?
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/WikiMockup      &     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/WikiMockup
<nixternal> we need to fill "in between the lines"
<nixternal> i need input, via the ML is fine, i believe jenda likes V2 better for the ToC
<nixternal> give me as much info as possible, write small blurbs for certain sections
<nixternal> that is what that is all about agenda wise
<adamant1988> I wouldn't know quite what to fill in.
<nixternal> == Introducation ==    give me 2 or 3 solid introductional type sentences for the MT
<sara_> I thought that we had a How you can help section already. Can you just borrow from that
* bimberi likes the layout of http://www.ubuntu.com/community
<nixternal> that is what i am look for...they need to be short and precise...to the point, cutting edge style
<nixternal> sure we can borrow from the other pages sara_
<nixternal> that is fine, but the main page is currently HORRID
* adamant1988 concurs.
* bimberi too
<ompaul> @now utc
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 13 2006, 19:17:11 - Current meeting: Marketing Team in 17 minutes
<nixternal> you have to run around to find info, so this will be the one stop shop, and will have links to the other major projects going on for the "world to see"
<troy_s> As an outsider, I have always found ToCs and Subpages useful.
<adamant1988> wait, the meeting isn't supposed to start yet?
<nixternal> thats what we are trying to do troy_s, as if you look at the current wiki, there are subpages and ToC's, just very messy
<nixternal> that is saying the meeting has been open for 17 minutes
<kgoetz> adamant1988: yes, 17 minutes ago, Ubugtu is wrong
<adamant1988> oh ok.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ompaul] : Current meeting: Marketing Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntuahh
<adamant1988> sorry, continue
<ompaul> what 
<troy_s> they are also automated on the wiki, which makes maintaining them very easy (aka less work)
<ompaul> sorry, 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Marketing Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<bimberi> nixternal: i think your new page looks good, you're just basically looking for content?
<nixternal> yes bimberi
<adamant1988> Well, I could try my best to help out with the content.
<nixternal> take a look at the FC projects wiki and how clean their layouts are..and they are all the same too...that is what i am striving for here
<kgoetz> i notice teh image beind the top text - does that mean we are /ubuntu/ only, or do we do derivatives as well? (sorry for sort of OT)
<adamant1988> While mentioning the wiki, is there a possible way to keep track of all of the different marketing team wikis around on that site?
<nixternal> Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Edubuntu
<sara_> FC projects?
<nixternal> Ubuntu is almost generalized now, as every other distro falls in the family
<nixternal> fedora core
<kgoetz> cool, thanks nixternal, i just wanted to be clear :)
<sara_> ok
<bimberi> adamant1988: how do you find them, Title search for marketing?
<adamant1988> either that or I know the name I'm looking for
<adamant1988> the point is that anyone looking for info would have a time of finding them all
<bimberi> hmmk, it would appear we could use a Wiki subteam perhaps?
<nixternal> adamant1988: yes there is, and it will be implemented soon
<bimberi> ... at least to get it into shape
<nixternal> i am going to create a wiki MT /subpage tracker
<kgoetz> shouldnt all marketing pages be under /marketijng/?
<nixternal> yes
<bimberi> kgoetz: /Marketing   or  /MarketingTeam ?
<adamant1988> Yes, I have a page done under marketing but it's not on the marketing team page is what I'm saying, no one would find it without knowing exactly what they're looking for.
* bimberi thinks /Marketing
* nixternal agrees with bimberi, but MarketingTeam until we can change it
<kgoetz> well currently under /marketingTeam, but idealy under Marketing
<nixternal> I could create /Marketing and then #redirect Marketing the old page
<adamant1988> sounds good to me.
<bimberi> alright, we'll put that to the mailing list
<bimberi> ok, we could discuss the contact point item
<nixternal> hey everyone, if you come across a wiki setup you like elsewhere, also get that into the ML so we can "borrow" ideas ;)
<kgoetz> just a tic, i'll look at the agenda
<bimberi> what are people's thoughts regarding the need for a single contact point
<kgoetz> ok
<nixternal> we need our front page to be "dead on" balls to the wall "bad a$$", if you follow me...marketing has always been the "attractive" portion, and what draws people in...so it would be nice to look good, and be super functional
<kgoetz> generaly not needed. we only really need one if we are in a 'the buck stops here' position, but i still think the buck can stop with the correct person
<sara_> I think we need one person just for the sake of convinience
* bimberi wonders if Canonical would like to have a single point of contact
<Seveas> single point of contact == single point of failure
<ompaul> bimberi, ask slibs tomorrow - it does not make sense
<kgoetz> sara_: why do you think that?
<nixternal> the only reason i agree with "1 person" is because the mailing list is open to "everyone" and lord knows who just might respond with bad info or what not
<ompaul> as Seveas said
<bimberi> also, what occasionally occurs in forums like CC meeting is that an issue will arise, eg. about documentation, and they will ping someone there and then
<bimberi> Seveas: true
<Seveas> ompaul, s/li/il/
<kgoetz> if someones leading a team for the marketing project, tehy should be the contact, imnsho
<ompaul> Seveas, true
<adamant1988> I agree with kgoetz on that... the leader of the project should be responsible for it.
<kgoetz> :)
<bimberi> alright, no further thoughts - i would say that is a 'no' then
<kgoetz> single point of contact=no (from me)
* bimberi checks the agenda for any other discussable items
<kgoetz> ubuntupeople?
<bimberi> nixternal: task lists ?
<kgoetz> (if nix is still around)
<nixternal> oh ya
<nixternal> hehe
* jenda is here, and very sorry
<Seveas> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 13 2006, 19:32:07 - Current meeting: Marketing Team in 32 minutes
<kgoetz> jenda: perhaps hear from you after nixternal? :)
<jenda> argh...
<nixternal> sara_: you are heading up the Magazine Dept...is there anything for the team to do???  can you come up with a task list for the MT?
<jenda> :)
<kgoetz> :)
<sara_> I am working on it and it would get done this saturday, but I need to know waht are you looking for?
<nixternal> and some for the PR team, and SU
<sara_> How specific
<nixternal> tasks you hand out..doesn't have to be very specific at all..if you need information, create a list that says here is what i need, and this is when it is needed by
<sara_> ok. as of right now we could do with some research
<nixternal> right now, there just seems to be a lot of idle time...and the only one keeping buzz is adamant1988, otherwise i know, myself included, it is easy to go OT..would be nice to have a nice work buzz going on
* adamant1988 blushes
<bimberi> sara_: research? what type?
<sara_> I definetly some help with the wiki, 
<nixternal> matthew needs to do the same, as well as jenda with their projects...
* bimberi is beavering away on his little project, and will ask for critique when it's ready
<adamant1988> Sara_ if you need any articles and such written up, etc, I'm willing to help out
* jenda will write a to do list
<nixternal> i think the team could come up with some flyers, inserts, pamphlets, presentations...stuff like that...so we can create a place for LoCo's and what not to come and use our stuff
<sara_> I'll write a list ok
<jenda> More like a roadmap.
<adamant1988> My testimonial project needs a spec still in the wiki.. I should probably do that.. but that'll be up for discussion next meeting =\
<adamant1988> I forgot to add things to this one
<jenda> nixternal, see the DIY page, but in essence, you are right ;)
<nixternal> we have an idea of what we want to do, now we just have to start doing it...we have an amazing group of people in here wanting to work...lets get it rolling and the Spread Ubuntu part will fall right into place
<sara_> yeah a roadmap:)
<bimberi> nixternal: there's a lot of stuff about - even ~/Examples on a dapper install
<nixternal> jenda: exactly what im referring to...there are some new things on there...but updates can be used
<nixternal> even stuff other teams have created, we can pull into one location for all...
<adamant1988> Jenda: On spread ubuntu why not section things off into sub-teams?
<nixternal> ok..enough of me being bossy..someone elses turn ;)
<adamant1988> I believe the correct number of people that should be working on one thing at a time is 6.  
<bimberi> nixternal: yes, that's essentially what my thing is
<jenda> adamant1988: unnecessary fragmentation, if you ask me, for the moment. Might be necessary once the site is up.
<kgoetz> can someone explain the SU structure to me?: i havent been in touch a lot recnelty
<jenda> nixternal: please continue
<nixternal> i was affraid of that ;)
<jenda> kgoetz: Did you read the wiki, I thought it was quite exhaustive
<kgoetz> jenda: no, i didnt remember the meeting untill someone meantioned it just beofre
<kgoetz> *(meeting=agenda
<bimberi> ok, lets' go to SU then ;) - i think the ToDo list idea is a good one
<jenda> kgoetz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpreadUbuntu <<<
<jenda> eh
<jenda> SU
<adamant1988> a road map is a good idea, it would tell us what order things need to be done in.
<jenda> OK, we have a few design proposals
<jenda> And a bzr branch
<nixternal> i was thinking, maybe get a list from everyone that has their person "pros" and "cons" about themselves..like I can do graphics, wiki's, and i can talk on the phone...where we can help pinpoint people for certain tasks...future item this could be
<nixternal> s/person/personal
<kgoetz> jenda: cheers, got it
<jenda> I saw many people had trouble with bzr, I'll write a HOWTO
<jenda> on the ML
<nixternal> create a MarketingDB with this info, so if someone contacts me and says i need some artwork for blah balh, i can say you can try so and so, or this person
<jenda> nixternal: +1
<nixternal> jenda: put the howto on the bzr and make people work for it
<nixternal> LOL
<Seveas> bzr howto is simple: bzr branch url; bzr commit; bzr push url
<bimberi> nixternal: good idea, can you make a start on a skills list?
<jenda> nixternal: -1 ;)
<nixternal> hahahah
<bimberi> lol nixternal
<kgoetz> lol nixternal
<jenda> Seveas: just the commands to DL the branch
<nixternal> bzr checkout
<jenda> for members and non-members
<nixternal> bzr plugins <- bugged up btw
<Seveas> jenda, bzr branch url_here
<nixternal> also, need to poke mako about membership ;)
<jenda> nixternal: remember, there is http and stcp etc
<Seveas> (for members: checkout)
<nixternal> ok..hehe
<nixternal> sftp and al lthe good stuff
<jenda> You need 'get' for http
<nixternal> yup
<jenda> afaik, but that is OT
<nixternal> i have the branch here
<nixternal> i am good with the bzr for the time being..except my plugins package is foo
<nixternal> anyways, back to topic in hand
* kgoetz zones out untill meeting becomes topical again
<nixternal> bimberi: i can start something for the skills list sure
<nixternal> should we have everyone email the list?  or should i create a wiki template and have everyone fill in their info there?
<jenda> nixternal: do that ;) There's no harm in it and all info is voluntary. I don't think we need to discuss/vote/mailing-list that
<bimberi> nixternal: wiki
<adamant1988> wiki
<jenda> wiki^3
<nixternal> once we have a big list, we can then move people around and clean  it up so you can follow it
<nixternal> roger that..wiki it is
<nixternal> i will start that up today
<jenda> The subject is SU now?
<nixternal> go for it jenda
<bimberi> jenda: yes
<nixternal> your turn
<jenda> OK
<jenda> I'd like you all to watch either: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu#head-0202bdc0f2e0e5d3cb074109cf42d8a323126c61
<jenda> or the bzr branch
<jenda> and comment on what you see on the mailing list or IRC, discuss, improve
<jenda> I wanted a deadline yesterday, but it wasn't possible, not enough work done yet.
<jenda> So I'll delay this to the next meeting.
<kgoetz> just a thought - where posable (and i know its not always posable), can we use text for shareing data?
<ompaul> jenda, sorry, deadline which exactly?
<jenda> kgoetz: what do you mean?
<kgoetz> jenda: like, plain text (vim+emacs) compatiable, rather then (say ) odt
<jenda> ompaul: for the design proposals - July 12. But let's extend that period
<kgoetz> ods etc of course have to be OO.o files, but text would be nice as... well... text
<jenda> kgoetz: in which context, not sure what you mean...
<kgoetz> jenda: $neat proposal, if its in .odt/f i'm not very likely to read it, if its plaintext its abotu 90% better chance of getting viewd
* jenda hasn't seen an odt used for communication in the team... do you mean the list, the wiki, ... where?
<jenda> kgoetz: were talking graphical proposals ATM
<jenda> those tend to be html, png or svg
<kgoetz> jenda: no, i havent eitehr, i'm trying to get in early
<ompaul> kgoetz, the web and email seem to be the standard :-) 
<kgoetz> (and hold my brain together at 5.17 am)
<kgoetz> ompaul: :)
<jenda> I don't understand which medium you are talking about.
<ompaul> jenda, kgoetz groks it now
<jenda> And it seems to be holding up the meeting, so let's agree on using the appropriate formats at all times :)
<jenda> ok
<ompaul> kgoetz, bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-marketing/spreadubuntu/spreadubuntu
<kgoetz> ty
<jenda> So, ATM SpreadUbuntu needs those very proposals
<jenda> Design etc.
<adamant1988> While we're discussing Spread Ubuntu and such, I know that those projects are going to require a lot of files.  Is there anyway we could get a dedicated server to host artwork and such on?
<adamant1988> Imageshack and Photobucket frown on text and svg formats
<jenda> From Sunday on, I will start working on restructuring the wiki to allow people to write their own ideas of what should be in the sections
<jenda> adamant1988: the docteam's servers will host it. It has been discussed on the ML
<adamant1988> sorry, I can't keep up with the ML well, I apologize
<adamant1988> back on topic
<jenda> Now, nixternal, I think it would be nice if we could either use the wiki or specs in launchpad to give out work. 
<nixternal> we can do that
<jenda> (In response to: "What else besides the current 3 projects, is there for members to do?")
<nixternal> sure, we need to create more, because there are a lot more, we just have to get um rolling...and figure out how to classify them maybe
<bimberi> jenda: any thoughts on jdub's feeling we should stick to the bottom half of the SU diagram
<jenda> That idea has been in my head ever since I started advertising the MT, because I saw how the people had nothing to do after joining, so left.
<jenda> hmm
<bimberi> s/half/third/
<jenda> bimberi: it is the more important part of SU, for sure
<jenda> brb, dammit - sorry :( emergency...
<nixternal> i think we can create more projects and should be able to make everyone here pretty much a "Project Leader" in one way or another
<bimberi> btw, the 'diagram' is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu#head-7ce3d403bd8929ad030974de84db90f022cde3db
<adamant1988> sounds good
<sara_> I agree
<nixternal> i think "marketing specs" is a great idea, that will allow everyone the opportunity to start a project, involve others, manage it, and track the milestones as well
<jenda> back
<troy_s> if it is any interest:
<jenda> I'd be careful with starting new projects like that, because we still have nothing done.
<adamant1988> I've got two projects I'm currently brainstorming on, myself... but I'm makign sure to get involved in the larger ones as well.
* bimberi agrees
<troy_s> create the spec, then subscribe your team.  that seems to be the best way to get them listed under www.launchpad/people/team/+specs
<jenda> I'd try to focus on the current three projects till at least one is completed
<jenda> troy_s: we have a team, and I oppose LP sub-teams.
<jenda> It would be a mess.
<troy_s> not sub teams
<troy_s> you just subscribe the primary team
<troy_s> so that it shows up on +specs
<jenda> ah, subscribe, not create ;) sorry, my bad
<troy_s> i chatted with matt zimmerman about it, and we were originally assigning our team to them to get them to show up under +specs
<troy_s> but he suggested that subscribing is better because it also frees up the assignee slot
<sara_> troy how would you do tha t, the link you gave was broken
<jenda> OK, i'm not entirely sure we will use that method for tiny things like 'create a svg ubuntu logo'
<jenda> (example)
<troy_s> sara_ it was just a sample...
<troy_s> here let me show you...
<sara_> ohh
<jenda> That should be listed on the wiki as a list.
<troy_s> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs
<bimberi> jenda: yes, i guess it's a matter of scale
<troy_s> every team has spec areas, and you can get things listed in them various ways...
<jenda> troy_s: I already created one spec for the team
<troy_s> the way we created that list was using the assignee (which automatically sticks it into the spec listing for the team)
<troy_s> jenda:  did you subscribe?
* bimberi tries https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-marketing/+specs
<jenda> I think we should stick to a todo list on the wiki, and specs when the task is big enough to merit it.
<jenda> probably not.
<troy_s> what is your team name on launch?
<troy_s> idiot... i just saw the link
<troy_s> lol
<bimberi> :)
<troy_s> there... so find your braindump specs or whatever
<troy_s> and subscribe the ubuntu-marketing team...
<nixternal> i think the SU Project, PR Project, and Magazine Project are large enough and should have their own specs to track
<nixternal> refer to https://help.launchpad.net/BlueprintDocumentation
<jenda> troy_s: OK thx
<sara_> I think taht we should have our own specs
* adamant1988 agrees
<jenda> We'll make that the starndard procedure for specs
<troy_s> if you find your spec, you can subscribe teams to them, and people.
<bimberi> i'm going to have a look at the other specs (eg. art teams) and see if my initiative would fit in for that
<troy_s> then you get a nice centralized area to track all development
<jenda> subscribed
<troy_s> we are still steep on the learning curve, but making very good learning.
<nixternal> exactly troy_s, and it makes so easy to track the work people are doing, and you are able to pinpoint stalls and what not
<adamant1988> so all of our specs are going to be thrown into one?
<adamant1988> I'm confused...
<troy_s> yes... and it saves wiki hell.
<jenda> ah
* bimberi refreshes and voila!
<troy_s> further, launch is designed to work with a wiki
<jenda> OK, how about a MT small-task spec?
<troy_s> poof!
<troy_s> nice work
<bimberi> jenda: ?
<jenda> instead of the wiki-hell
<troy_s> your wiki end can hold hte evolving specs which devs can contribute to as well.
<jenda> with independent specs for larger tasks.
<troy_s> you get instant notifications of all attached wiki adjustments too
<troy_s> which is nice
<jenda> Nice
<troy_s> personal opinion -- spec everything, then obsolete the bad ideas -- prevents overlapping.
<troy_s> that has been our approach thus far...
<jenda> OK, anyone opposed to a TODO spec on launchpad, with possible independent specs for the large projects?
<bimberi> so 'if it's not on the spec tracker, it's not a team initiative'
<troy_s> by the way, your spec should follow the template for specs
<troy_s> which is:
<troy_s> wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
<jenda> troy_s: I don't think we should try cramming Spreadubuntu and Ubuntu-mag into the same spec as the little things
<jenda> troy_s: of course ;)
<troy_s> when you create a new wiki page click the template link to create it.  pretty quick and simple.
<jenda> OK, thanks
<bimberi> jenda: i don't know if a ToDo spec works for this but until we do know, why not? :)
* jenda notes: creating TODO spec ; spec creation howto ;
<nixternal> jenda: lets spec out SU, PR, and Mag first, then we can create a tasked spec, or create specs for new projects
<troy_s> and refering to how much into a spec, the dev team is pretty specific with each spec.
<troy_s> we tried to follow that.
<troy_s> of course, we too are still learning.
<jenda> nixternal: I'd start with the todo spec, and the project leaders can make their own.
<bimberi> troy_s: thanks for this :)
<jenda> While, of course, anyone on the team can change that.
<troy_s> believe me, i wish someone had a howto up on launchpad before i had to do the legwork of learning :)
<adamant1988> so if I want to do a project I need to add the spec to the marketing team?
<troy_s> I tried to leave a paper trail from my trials and tribulations... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadHowTo
<troy_s> not great... perhaps you folks could grow it a little with learning.
<nixternal> ok, we agree on specs, this can probably be worked out further either via the ML or the #*-marketing
<jenda> adamant1988: you should first propose the project on the mailing list and discuss it.
<bimberi> ok, jenda anything else on SU?
<jenda> Probably not... any questions?
<adamant1988> I know Jenda It's just a query
<nixternal> jenda: btw, you didn't notice me either ;)
<jenda> I'll only stress once again: if any of you can do webdesign...
<nixternal> [notice]  that is ;)
<bimberi> adamant1988: perhaps create the spec, then email the list regarding linking it to the team
<jenda> ...please give SU a shot
<nixternal> jenda: i might be able to get some webdesign help
<troy_s> hey nixternal, do you know a way to embed attachments into the background image of contents?
* nixternal checks really quick
<adamant1988> ok... but I don't know how to create specs =\
<jenda> bimberi: don't create a LP spec before it's been discussed. You can't remove them from LP.
<troy_s> adamant1988, no one does till they try.  it is a process.
<nixternal> troy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/WikiMockup look at the raw text
<jenda> err
<troy_s> jenda, you can obsolete them though.
<troy_s> jenda, and they go away.
<nixternal> background: white url(url_of_the_image.png);>
<bimberi> jenda: surely it's a place to canvass ideas
<troy_s> nixternal, yes but that form isn't suggested for attachments as it can change
<jenda> They go away? OK
<bimberi> even if they're immediately killed
<troy_s> nixternal, there must be a way to use a direct attachment.
<jenda> Sure - but I think discussion on the ML comes first.
<nixternal> i have tried the direct attachment for instance ....    attachment:something.png
<jenda> nixternal: was there a second mockup? caught something earlier on.
<troy_s> sorry... you can private me nix to keep this on track.
<bimberi> jenda: hm, frequently there's no reaction on the list
<nixternal> i will do some more moinmoin hacking here local and find out
<jenda> bimberi: a spec won't help you with that.
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/WikiMockupV2
<nixternal> there it is jenda
<jenda> And I don't think I noticed many of these lately.
<jenda> thx
<bimberi> jenda: no, i'm not saying that
<kgoetz> bimberi: i admit i haven been very reactive lately - but i havent been home much either :|\
<jenda> nixternal: yes, i do like that one more :)
<nixternal> figured you did..that is the way we shall rock..because i like it also, and it stays with the ubuntu wiki layouts in place
* bimberi isn't pointing the finger
<jenda> ;)
<bimberi> i think we need to know more about how Launchpad spec tracking works
<kgoetz> nixternal: could we have the contents /over/ the ubuntu logo?
<nixternal> yes
* bimberi will read up :)
<jenda> bimberi: someone should take it upon themselves to document and explain that to the team in understandable terms on the ML ;)
<nixternal> that is an actual background kgoetz, so text will float over it
<nixternal> if that is what you mean
<jenda> nixternal: just one idea of a fairly good wikipage: http://wiki.ubuntu.cz/Konferen%C4%8Dn%C3%AD_m%C3%ADstnost_na_Jabberu
<jenda> It's czech, though ;)
<bimberi> jenda: troy_s's page might be all that's needed ;)
<jenda> troy_s?
<jenda> linky?
<bimberi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadHowTo
<jenda> thanks
<jenda> everyone read that ;)
<nixternal> thats nice also jenda
<bimberi> i haven't looked at it yet though
<jenda> :-D
<kgoetz> is this going to take long? becaues i migth have to crash if it is :|
<jenda> me neither 
<troy_s> i didn't put the damn spec link there yet
<nixternal> jenda: i have procured an interest in SU web design
<jenda> Yeah, let's close the subject...
<nixternal> i will chat him up after all of this ;)
<jenda> nixternal: eh? :)
<troy_s> it should tell people how to create a wiki template off of wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
<nixternal> a buddy wants to help ubuntu, and he don't know how...he can do web design stuff, so he said he could look at it for me
<nixternal> i will get him in -marketing so we can drill him about it
<jenda> bimberi: that site doesn't document spec creation much...
<bimberi> jenda: kk
<jenda> nixternal: great ;)
<bimberi> :(
<bimberi> jenda: i'll have a look around
<bimberi> *********** ok, last agenda item is ubuntupeople.com
<bimberi> nixternal ?
<nixternal> sorry
<jenda> It would be great if someone described spec creation and maintenance in two or three paragraphs just for the team. If no one is up to it - I'll do it.
<nixternal> oh
<nixternal> lets put ubuntupeople to rest
<bimberi> jenda: let me have a go first
<gnomefreak> nixternal: why?
<nixternal> its over with, i am sick of the emails about it, and the chat about it...we are new..no more ubuntupeople.com, WE ARE UBUNTUPEOPLE!!!
<nixternal> the issues are in past, we are a new team, and don't need the bad publicity that may have caused for some
<nixternal> in the past
<jenda> There probabyl isn't much to say about the UP.com. It disappeared and left behind a rather simple message. I don't rightly understand the message, so I will rather ignore it.
<nixternal> jenda: it is times like this i just hug my CoC ;)
<nixternal> haha
<jenda> yes indeed. :)
<nixternal> SpreadUbuntu >>>>>>>>> UP anyways!!!
* gnomefreak might be mistaken on what ubuntupeople may be than
<bimberi> nixternal: is there any action i that needs to be taken or is this just a message you want to spread
<ompaul> gnomefreak, it used to be a web site
<jenda> gnomefreak: it was the marketing team forum.
<nixternal> no action..but people ask about it, and there was never a definate answer
<gnomefreak> oh
<gnomefreak> ok i thought it was a site idea
<nixternal> jenda: i do believe we should have a small communications forum for thos interested in providing info, but not on irc, or the ML
<bimberi> actually it would be a good place for a map of ubuntu users :)
<nixternal> maybe a test one just to see the results
<jenda> My answer is that the admin of the forum decided not to offer it anymore. it's gone and we agreed we don't need it.
<nixternal> i notice a lot of my Ubuntu Chicago guys don't do irc, or mailing lists, and like forums...i know it kind of stinks, but i am going to cater to those guys, and i need them for my team to be successfull
<bimberi> nixternal: are you DIY or using ubuntuforums?
<jenda> nixternal: I thought the first meeting was rather straight on that: no forum. But I guess we could, eventually resort to a subforum on the forums.
<nixternal> jenda: +1 on the subforums
<bimberi> sleep well kgoetz_Away
<jenda> NO seperate forum is my word. I strongly disagree.
<nixternal> nothing huge, as it may not generate much traffic, but it may generate traffic we don't get in irc or the ML because people are to new to the community, don't understand IRC or the ml, but can work a forum
<gnomefreak> a controlled idea wiki/page?
<nixternal> you never know, the next "marketer of tomorrow" could be hiding there
<nixternal> gnomefreak: those work fine, until they become over populated
<kgoetz_Away> later bimberi. (i'm off in 8 minutes, i'll stick aroun dtunill then)
<nixternal> then it becomes a pain to controll it...plus the ubuntuforums guys said we can get a subforum with them
<jenda> nixternal: too many MT members don't have time to browse another forum
* nixternal scours um ;)
<gnomefreak> nixternal: well between ML wiki/site and irc i think its a good starting point
<jenda> I'm against it, because I'm afraid it will re-fragment the team
* bimberi has enough trouble keeping up with the list
<nixternal> hey
<nixternal> hey
<nixternal> hey
<nixternal> i noticed the ubuntu-list is ont he forums
<nixternal> and hwen you post to the list, it is in the forums...
* nixternal finds the link to back this one up
* kgoetz_Away twitches at spam
<bimberi> nixternal: ubuntu-users ?
<nixternal> is that the one?
<kgoetz_Away> yes
<bimberi> that's the mailing list
<nixternal> yes..but people can post to it via the forums
<bimberi> nixternal: yes
<gnomefreak> nixternal: yes
<nixternal> just an idea
<gnomefreak> sadly yes
<nixternal> lol
<bimberi> nixternal: now that is a good idea
<jenda> +1 if that works
<nixternal> yay
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> for once i have a good idea ;)
<jenda> but watch the cultural differences ;)
* gnomefreak concered about that
<troy_s> by the way folks, i would _really_ like to see docteam/marketing/art all start a symbiotic relationship
* kgoetz_Away doesnt lik teh gateway
<nixternal> see jenda told ya i wasn't totally useless
<nixternal> troy_s: +1 +1 +1 +1 +1
<troy_s> so if you have art needs, please feel free to contact via the mailing list etc... 
<troy_s> hopefully we can roll the good work that doc team has been making into the whole mix
<nixternal> i think i just voted for everyone there
<jenda> nixternal: what do you know - I still don't believe you ;)
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> figures
<jenda> troy_s: I think we're working towards that quite OK :)
<gnomefreak> the problem witht he forums=ML is it can and has become very anti-coc
<troy_s> it's one of the reasons i am idling here.
<jenda> OK, let's defer the forum, ML gateway to the ML
<jenda> For pro/con discussing
<ompaul> WRT mailing lists, they can be mirrored on the forums, if they are correctly spam controlled then great, if not they lead to silly things happening like the people onthe forum replying to spam and the people on the mailing list not getting the spam so there is a disconnect
<bimberi> gnomefreak, kgoetz_Away: why? there's the spam responses yes, but that's not too bad
<ompaul> then there are rants in both directions and each side get to call the others a clique 
<gnomefreak> bimberi: im reminded of a post on ubuntu-users a while ago
<bimberi> yes, but that's ubuntu-users
<gnomefreak> bimberi: its wide open on forums side
<ompaul> bimberi, and it will exist anywhere that people don't understand what is happening
* gnomefreak not worried about the spam itself
<ompaul> it is the replies to that distract from the core work that gets to me 
<ompaul> but that is for another day
<gnomefreak> it was the whole idea of why should the forums users sign the coc
<bimberi> hm, the marketing audience is smaller
<ompaul> it is and the mailing list archives are small enough for someone to browse
<gnomefreak> im not say9ng dont try it im just putting that out there because its been known to happen
* nixternal points to the mailing list concerning the pro/cons of the ML <> Forums
* jenda was just gonna
<jenda> let's close the subject here
<bimberi> yes
<bimberi> thanks for that input there - good stuff :)
<ompaul> what is left to discuss?
<kgoetz_Away> we done? woot
<bimberi> that is it agenda wise
<kgoetz_Away> perfect timing :o
<nixternal> who wants to do meeting minutes?
<bimberi> hehe
* nixternal points to jenda
<bimberi> no i will
* kgoetz_Away pints to bimberi
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> pints....send me a pint!!!
* bimberi drinks his pint
<nixternal> of milk
<kgoetz_Away> :|
<nixternal> hahah
<jenda> bimberi: thanks :)
<nixternal> k...gg...bye...thx...
* kgoetz_Away goes to bed ;P
<kgoetz_Away> night all *hugs*
<nixternal> GOOD JOB TEAM!!! ANOTHER SUCCESSFULL MEETING!!!
<bimberi> kgoetz_Away: c'mon that was fare game that time :)
<kgoetz_Away> catch you later
* jenda apologises for coming late again
<bimberi> *fair  even
<kgoetz_Away> latrer bimberi:)
<jenda> imbrandon: you just missed it ;)
<nixternal> heh
<bimberi> kgoetz_Away: cya :)
<jenda> bimberi: you can have a look at the last one for inspiration :)
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<kgoetz_Away> later :)
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu
<bimberi> jenda: joy ;P
<nixternal> 4 more days til the next one
<jenda> Wait!
<jenda> Next meeting?
<gnomefreak> 17th it says
<nixternal> kubuntu meeting ;)
<bimberi> oh yes, 2 weeks?
<jenda> Next Marketing Meeting!!!
<gnomefreak> oh nm
<gnomefreak> 2 weeks sounds good
<nixternal> same time, same bat channel?
<jenda> Well - I'd love it to be on the 21st really :)
<jenda> but I guess I can't push that
<nixternal> 21st is good
<jenda> I can? :)
<nixternal> thats only 8 days away ;)
<bimberi> jenda: why?
<jenda> I'll be leaving for three weeks after that, and I'd like to get SU covered
<jenda> I could make it an SU-specific meeting.
<nixternal> lets do that then jenda
<bimberi> jenda: seems fair to me
<jenda> OK. I hope I won't get murdered in a dark alley for it :)
<bimberi> 21st at 19:00 UTC?
<nixternal> and then hold a meeting when you return?  and if sara needs to, she can hold a meeting for the magazine as well as matthew for PR
<jenda> don't forget: some team have weekly meetings :)
<bimberi> jenda: will you handle the fridge for that?
<jenda> bimberi: of course :)
<bimberi> gr8 :)
<jenda> nixternal: we can discuss that next time. i see no reason why not to take a meeting without me :-D
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-14
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubug2] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<robitaille> @topic
<robitaille> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 17 Jul 13:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 17 Jul 19:30 UTC: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-15
<Toadstool> @schedule Paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 17 Jul 21:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 17 Jul 23:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 05:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 19 Jul 06:00: Technical Board | 20 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team
<anibal> @schedule melbourne
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Melbourne: 17 Jul 23:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 05:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 19 Jul 06:00: Technical Board | 20 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team
<airjump> hello
<jenda> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 17 Jul 13:00: Kubuntu | 17 Jul 19:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 20:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team
<airjump> .
<Seveas> ,
<ogra> ;
<jenda> 
<ogra> (merge)
<Seveas> (branch)
<jenda> (flame)
<Seveas> (jenda)
<ompaul> (point of order, through the chair)
<airjump> what is that "(point of order, through the chair)"
<ompaul> based on the previous () material I thought I would throw it in for free
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-16
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* #ubuntu-meeting  [freenode-info]  please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<jenda> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 17 Jul 13:00: Kubuntu | 17 Jul 19:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 20:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team
* myriams is away: Away at the moment
* myriams is back.
<Seveas> myriams, please turn public away off in here
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-09
<bashelier> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 10 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 02:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
<pyros_pyrotica> @schedule new york
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 10 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<stgraber> oh right, ubotu isn't here
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-10
<man-di> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 10 2007, 05:02:59 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 9 hours 57 minutes
<BFTD> @schedule los_angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 10 Jul 08:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 05:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 17:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 10:00: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
<RickH> What time is UTC relative to say, EST in the U.S.?
<mc44_> RickH: -5 hrs
<RickH> Okay.
<RickH> So, when it says "0:00 UTC", that would be 7pm the day before my time?
<mc44_> oh, maybe not, I forgot about daylight savings
<mc44_> @now est
<ubotu> Current time in EST: July 10 2007, 11:07:18 - Current meeting: Kernel Team
<mc44_> @now utc
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 10 2007, 16:07:24 - Current meeting: Kernel Team
<RickH> nice! :)
<RickH> Got it.  Thanks.  The next desktop meeting is July 14 at 0:00, which would be July 13 at 7pm for me.
<mc44_> RickH: are you sure? :) is it 11:10 for you now?
<RickH> mc44_:  Ah, It's 12:15 right now, so we're EDT.
<RickH> 8pm. :)
<RickH> My mother and I both have the same disability with date/time math. hehehe :)
<RickH> At last I come by it honestly.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board
<mr_pouit> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 11 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 02:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 21:00: Technical Board
<pyros_pyrotica> @schedule new york
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 11 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 15:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-11
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
<ogra> whoops
<ogra> nearly missed that we have a meeting
<man-di> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 11 2007, 12:02:29 - Current meeting: Edubuntu
<man-di> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
<RichEd> hi ... ogra do you have time for a technical wrap up ?
<ogra> roughly ...
<RichEd> go for it ...
<ogra> i merged more ltsp changes, added the new X detection and configuration scripts ...
<RichEd> b.t.w. who is here for the edubuntu meeting ... do we have many people ?
<ogra> and this week i'm completely focused on classmate
<ogra> thats about it for tech :)
<ogra> oh, and since i see xivulon ... there is a wubi installer
<RichEd> great ... how is the sprint going ?
<RichEd> any news re gutsy we should be aware of ?
<xivulon> thx
<ogra> we have compiz by default now ...
<ogra> so windows are dropping shadows etc if the HW supports it
<RichEd> does it look cool ?
<ogra> modem support was improved a lot ...
<ogra> yeah, it looks and feels great as far as i can say, sadly my only HW that supports it is the classmate :)
<ogra> the improved modem support should actually help a lot in edubuntu with users that have bad network coverage
<RichEd> i heard some queries about dual monitor support ... and the need to fiddle in files ... as far as you know do we have more of that working from default install (this was from a dell guy)
<ogra> even though it was pretty specific to winmodems builtin in laptops
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> there is a gui to configure a second monitor now
<ogra> i'm planning a detection algorithm for ltsp to do something similar for gutsy+1
<RichEd> :)
<ogra> i started working on a printer detection mechanism for ltsp as well
<ogra> it will only work with usb printers ... but if you plug in one of these at a client a dialog should pop up in your session offering to add it
<ogra> (only if the printer isnt there yet indeed)
<ogra> the new ldm gives us a lot of new opportunities to have session<->client inetraction now
<RichEd> that will be nice ... what about network printer install ? does the server only need to find the printer once, and then do all workstations see it from the default desktop ?
<ogra> right
<RichEd> and also I had a query the other day about how to install the same printer for many workstations (not LTSP) is there an easy way of doing that ? or does it need a script.
<ogra> you just need to make it visible to the network ... i think there is a button in the ui
<ogra> cups (the printing environment) supports IPP by default, via IPP other systems can detect it
<RichEd> but would each workstation need someone to do the add/install ... this query was from a network admin who wanted to add to all desktops without users needing to do anything.
<ogra> yes, you would need to add it on every workstation
<RichEd> in the MSFT world I remember being able to set a script to autoexecute for each login ... can that be done with Ubuntu server ?
<ogra> indeed you could just configure it on one and copy the config files around ;)
<ogra> that can be dne with any linux ;)
<RichEd> okay ... thanks
<ogra> independently if its ubuntu (or server or workstation)
<RichEd> ? independently ... not sure what you mean ?
<ogra> if you want some script that is executed in the desktop session, you add it to /etc/xdg/autostart/
<ogra> s/independently/it does not matter/
<RichEd> okay ... any more technical stuff for today ?
<ogra> if you want a system wide script you can add it to /etc/init.d/rc.local
<ogra> no, thats all ....
<RichEd> ^ once on the server, and then does each workstation pick it up from the server ?
<ogra> on a sidenote i'm checking the translation status for the classmate apps ...
<ogra> which indeed is the same as our desktop edu apps
<RichEd> makes sense to start there ...
<ogra> the arabian and some of the chinese languages are awfully bad translated yet
<ogra> most of the others are fine :)
<RichEd> Where there is a more obscure language, we need to help the community tackle it I think ... I will add that to the community actions we'll suggest to intel.
<ogra> we have "Urdu" on the list
<RichEd> We can give guidelines and mentor, but the local users should take some responsibility.
<ogra> the complete language if installed uses 200 byte on the disk ...
<ogra> (usually you have some megabytes for one lang)
<RichEd> I think that that is also a good first step into participating in open source ... low technical overhead to learn.
<RichEd> Also the Classmate will be confined to on keyboard layout I guess ... must check that with Justin.
<ogra> so in the hindi/urdu area we could urgently need more translatoors
<RichEd> *one
<RichEd> Doubt that they are doing other character layouts just yet.
<ogra> well, if they want chinese translations they surely have chinese keyboards as well
<RichEd> Matt Barker has a lot of traction in India, Universities, and GAPP etc. I will ask him about Hindi.
<ogra> i can do that as well, he'S around ;)
<RichEd> I'll check the keyboard options with Justin.
<ogra> good
<ogra> especially the asian stuff
<ogra> since asian keyboards will require special setup for asian input methods
<RichEd> Asian as in India ... not Oriental as in China do you mean ?
<ogra> (that will grow the image a lot)
<ogra> i mean china
<ogra> and XIM or SCIM input methods
<ogra> i would expect india to want to use english layout
<RichEd> okay ... that will need to be specced carefully with Justin before we can say it is workable for the market. (China/Japan)
<ogra> right
<RichEd> Moving on then to Documentation
<RichEd> Anything here for today ?
<ogra> i'd also suggest that we make many images (one per language or in max up to three langs)
<ogra> so we can keep the image smaller
<ogra> but indeed that will cost more ;)
<ogra> doesnt look like we have anything for docs
<RichEd> that would make sense ... no need to carry around files that will not be used ... when there is limited storage
<ogra> right
<RichEd> Okay ... good news re artwork ...
<ogra> but it means to maintain a lot of images
<ogra> yeah, i saw the mail :-D
<RichEd> Well in case anyone else is here and paying attention:
<RichEd> > My name is Jill Carpenter and it was suggested to me to offer my skills
<RichEd> > as an illustrator to Edubuntu.  It's something that I would very much
<RichEd> > enjoy doing.  I have worked as an artist for over 25 years, and have
<RichEd> > worked for the last 8 years as a contract artist for PearsonDL, and
<RichEd> > Evans Newton Inc, illustrating for children's educational materials for
<RichEd> > grades K-12.  I am most often given reading and Earth science passages
<RichEd> > for grades 1 through 5 to illustrate, but also math, biology and science
<RichEd> > for 7 through 12 grades.
<RichEd> So I'll get a response to her today and ask her to join you and me for a chat on IRC.
<ogra> i like that groklaw suggests us :)))
<RichEd> 'scuse my ignorance, but what is groklaw ?
<calc> RichEd: website devoted to the downfall of SCO ;)
<ogra> RichEd, groklaw is the website that archives everything about the SCO lawsuit
* RichEd is wikipediang ... wil read up ...
<ogra> they expose *all* documents they find
<ogra> so that shot SCO in the foot several times during their anti linux campaign
<calc> RichEd: its more than SCO but SCO lawsuit was its initial reason for existing
<RichEd>  :)Groklaw: The neutrality of this article or section is disputed.
<calc> back to the meeting... :)
<ogra> yeah, it turned into a general anti patetn thing :)
<RichEd> This kind of leads on to Community ... and the need to grow more members ... and a discussion we held last week.
<ogra> yeah
<RichEd> #1 we have a few of the earlier community members either retiring or taking a break.
<RichEd> * cbx33
<RichEd> * laserjock
<RichEd> * jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi!
<jsgotangco> ohh its meeting
<jsgotangco> need anything from me just ping me about, in another conf
<RichEd> on the other hand we have a number of people volunteering or applying to join edubuntu-members & edubuntu- on launcpad
<RichEd> *launchpad
<RichEd> the trouble is that not many of the applicants have:
<RichEd> - shown contribution
<RichEd> - been at meetings
<RichEd> So I think we must plan a special Community Introduction meeting ... and invite the people who are keen.
<ogra> the LP teams are a mess
<RichEd> People like LaserJock are still keen to mentor and help new people get going ... but a chat in a group will help to get enthusiasm going, and set some initial action points.
<ogra> we urgently need to find time to go through them and clean up
<RichEd> ogra: as discussed, I am tidying them up ... and mailing people to see who is still alive and kicking
<RichEd> What I'd like to find out now is how well the current meeting structure works ...
<RichEd> Does anyone think that the technical aspect of the meeting (first half) is stopping people joining who may be interested in lower level items ?
<ogra> we could indeed change the order
<juliux> RichEd, perhaps we can make one week technical and one week community
<RichEd> juliux: but that kind of messes with the time zone altenation
<RichEd> *alternation
<juliux> RichEd, ik
<juliux> ok
<ogra> and i'D forget half the stuff in 14 days
<RichEd> What I am really asking is should we break the meeting into 2 parts of an hour each, Technical and Non-Technical and advertise as 2 separate meetings ?
<juliux> yes please
<RichEd> but back to back time wise ...
<ogra> (we have the distro team meeting every thursday, so i'm preparing my weekly report on wednesday)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i doubt tech needs 1h
<juliux> but i think it is better to discuss that with people who are more active then I
<ogra> i'm usually done within 20min ...
<ogra> put ten on top for questions
<RichEd> That means that the lower level volunteers will not feel intimidated by the early tech speak ... and that tech workers can leave within the hour during coding crunch time
<ogra> i wuldnt like to split the communiy
<RichEd> that is an issue, but I'd see it more as a focus change over a longer dual part meeting
<RichEd> perhaps we should do it like then then:
<ogra> well, we can test it out
<RichEd> Section 1 : Technical - chaired by Oliver
<RichEd> Section 2 : Community etc. - chaired by Richard
<ogra> right
<RichEd> and with an intro welcome etc when we change over ... so that people feel that they are "allowed" to join later ?
<ogra> lets do it like that and see how it works out
<RichEd> Okay ... what I'd like to do is set up one Community focused meeting, and invite the volunteers and LP lurkers to that ... to get people clear on what needs to be done to become a member
<RichEd> But also some bite size tasks for people to tackle.
<RichEd> And to try to peer up newbies with a mentor figure.
<ogra> right
<ogra> i'm assuming the number two meeting will also be the EC meeting then ?
<ogra> (in case of EC meetings)
<RichEd> yep ... makes sense ... EC is supposed to be the 1st meeting of a new month ?
<RichEd> [Next week I an in the US and the week after ... do you think we should do this community welcome / boost as part of the EC meeting for August] 
<ogra> yeah, sounds good
<ogra> and yes first meeting in a month is EC
<RichEd> = Wed 1 august ... which is enough time for people to get invites etc.
<ogra> yeps
<RichEd> perhaps I should also invite Jono Bacon to chat to people as a guest celeb
<ogra> yeah, good idea
<RichEd> that will be an evening meeting.
<RichEd> ... okay that is all from me for today ...
<RichEd> Anyone else with any items for today ?
<ogra> doesnt look like
<RichEd> Going once ...
* RichEd looks around
<RichEd> Going twice ...
<RichEd> Okay ... all done for today ... thanks ogra and others
<ogra> wow .. 50min only
<jsgotangco> arghh
<jsgotangco> came back and its done
<sfllaw> jsgotangco: They were just discussing your retirement.  I think you should throw a party.
<sfllaw> :)
<jsgotangco> lol twitter/pownce away!
<sfllaw> jsgotangco: You're not really allowed to throw parties on Twitter.  You should get some friends together (people who run Ubuntu) and get them to buy you beer.  :P
<sfllaw> Then again, why can't we have an online Twitter party?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board
<corentin> Hi all :)
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 12 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 02:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 00:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 21:00: Technical Board
<peanutb> @schedule Los_Angelis
<peanutb> @schedule Los_Angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 12 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 17:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 10:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 15:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 12:00: Technical Board
<BFTD> @scedule los_angeles
<corentin> Bye all :)
<luisbg> the next community council meeting is still not scheduled?
<simira> maybe because of the sprint this week and guadec next week?
<simira> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 12 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00: Technical Board
<luisbg> simira, I see
<luisbg> so it would be in two weeks probably right?
<simira> honestly I've no idea
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-12
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Jul 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 13 Jul 19:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 17:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 14:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-13
<man-di> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 13 2007, 07:34:28 - Next meeting: MOTU Team in 16 hours 25 minutes
<man-di> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 14 Jul 00:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu
<mr_pouit> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 14 Jul 02:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 00:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu
<vbanait> I installed ubuntu 7.## , but my eth0 is not detected pl hlp
<ogra> vbanait, -> #ubuntu for support
<vbanait> nobody is answering there. i thought you are stalwarts
<AndyP> @schedule london
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 14 Jul 01:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 18:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 23:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 20:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu
<micahcowan> @schedule pst
<micahcowan> @schedule pacific
<ubotu> Schedule for Canada/Pacific: 13 Jul 17:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 10:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 15:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 12:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu
<avoine> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 13 Jul 20:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 18:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-14
<minghua> @schedule Central
<ubotu> Schedule for Canada/Central: 13 Jul 19:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 17:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 14:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu
<minghua> @schedule Chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 13 Jul 19:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 17:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 14:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu
<nixternal> chicago FTW! :)
* minghua is glad that Canada/Central and US/Central is the same time zone.
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> CST == Chicago Standard Time :)
<minghua> ... or China Standard Time :-)  (And yes, that's the real official name.)
<Toadstool> @schedule Los_Angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 13 Jul 17:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 10:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 15:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 12:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 13 Jul 20:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 18:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: MOTU Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Jul 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<zul> hello
<sistpoty> hi
<zul> im actually awake for a motu meeting exciting
* ajmitch isn't
<calc> motu meeting? when is that?
<Toadstool> bonsoir
<zul> 2 minutes
<ajmitch> calc: in about 1 minute
<persia> calc: About 100 seconds from now.
<Toadstool> calc: now
<TheMuso> heh
<calc> oh ok
* calc thinks he will skip it have to get up for a plane in about 6hr
<TheMuso> calc: THeres not much to be discussed.
<calc> ok
<TheMuso> Just our fixed agenda items.
<Toadstool> meeting's over, thanks people :)
<calc> i applied for core-dev today! :)
<persia> Who's chairing the meeting today?
<ajmitch> persia: you just volunteered
<sistpoty> :)
<persia> OK.  Agenda is available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<persia> First up: Other Business.  Anyone have any?
<TheMuso> I just think we should start trying to make an effort to clear the remaining outstanding merges before UVF.
<TheMuso> That is all.
<Nafallo> hi all
<nixternal> howdy
<TheMuso> Only then may we consider updated merges, IMO.
<minghua> I am worried some changes currently in unstable is too intrusive to be merged.
<TheMuso> minghua: What packages?
<minghua> Maybe only merging Debian revision updates, not new upstreams?
<persia> minghua: I think many new upstreams are probably good before UVF
<minghua> TheMuso: No concrete examples, just worrying.
<minghua> Such things happened before, on dapper cycle IIRC.
<sistpoty> just a side issue: can you all give some feedback about bluekujava's motu application on the MC list? (as the one week delay is passed iirc)
<minghua> An MOTU merged/synced a package from Debian according to user's request, and broke a package I care about.
* TheMuso has left feedback.
<minghua> Granted, the Debian package didn't set strict enough Depends, but still.
<Nafallo> minghua: so you actually found a bug that way? ;-)
<sistpoty> TheMuso: right, thanks!
<TheMuso> np
<minghua> I'm not doing much merge work these days though, so I'm not trying to change the way other people work, just speaking out my concern.
<zul> packages are going to get broken it is gutsy
<minghua> Nafallo: About the dependency?  Yes.  But it's not my package anyway, and I don't use it, so I didn't report to Debian.
<Nafallo> minghua: hehe. that's one way to look at it :-)
* Nafallo isn't really active either. only has one package maintained in Ubuntu.
<persia> Any additional other business, or shall we moved to fixed topics?
<AndyP> i'm likey to do some more merging when i get the chance but could MOTUs who like to care for specific packages please flag merges they don't want other people to do using DaD or a bug? i don't want to step on toes
<AndyP> s/likey/likely/
<sistpoty> as this topic came up on the MC list recently, does anyone think we need to clarify/extent/modify the current merge policy?
<Fujitsu> Which merge policy?
<Nafallo> AndyP: I think I did already for gajim. could you please confirm that? :-)
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: the erm... inofficial one? *g*
<AndyP> Nafallo: yes, "DO NOT TOUCH!!!" is a good flag :)
<Nafallo> hehe
* Fujitsu must look at merging mplayer soon.
<persia> Are there any volunteers to draft current merge practice into a policy doc, perhaps as part of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging?
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: I'll help by screaming at ya if you break something I use :-)
<Fujitsu> That's what I thought, Nafallo.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: (just ask me and we can see if I have time left over :-))
<Fujitsu> What merge policy do we have, anyway>?
<zul> you merge it you break it you fix it? ;)
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: I didn't do a merge for gutsy (blame me), but it was s.th. like coordinate with the previous uploader eventually and merge
<persia> Fujitsu: I think it's 1) all Outstanding merges should be done before DIF, 2) ping the last uploader before merging to make sure, 3) make sure the Debian changes are good between DIF & FF, 4) Be very careful after UVF.
<Toadstool> 14
<Toadstool> hmpf
<Nafallo> DIF?
<Fujitsu> persia: That makes sense.
<Fujitsu> DebianImportFreeze, Nafallo.
<Nafallo> aha. all those abbr. :-)
<sistpoty> whoo new tla's :)
<persia> OK.  Any objections to deferring the merge policy debate to the next meeting, and creating a wiki page with one or more proposals to be discussed then?
<minghua> persia: Sounds good.  I especially like point (3).
<sistpoty> persia: +1
<AndyP> the policy is good but the blocking in 2 can take time, which could probably streamlined with a specific definition of "ping"
<persia> Any volunteers to draft proposals for the next meeting?
<Nafallo> I agree with AndyP here :-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo and AndyP: so you're volunteering? :P
<Nafallo> sistpoty: tss. new job, new life, no time.
<Nafallo> :-/
* persia looks at AndyP, who might be able to define ping, and TheMuso who might want to document practices for Outstanding Merges
<TheMuso> Note that merges that were done by core devs are likely toucable, as they have more important thigns to do, with the exception of StevenK and Hobbsee.
<minghua> Poor LaserJock. :-P
<AndyP> persia: i'll give it a go
<TheMuso> persia: I'll give it a shot.
<persia> AndyP: TheMuso: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> People competing to write documentation? I never thought I'd see the day.
<AndyP> TheMuso: ok you out rank me :)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: he, I've got a job for the first time in my life now... too few time for ubuntu left here as well :(
<TheMuso> AndyP: You were asked to define ping
<persia> next item: setting a time and date for the next MOTU meeting.  At out last meeting, ScottK suggested we should alternate by 12 hours for each meeting, making the next 27th July, 12:00 UTC.  Any thoughts?
<persia> s/out/our/
<Nafallo> sistpoty: know the feeling.
<minghua> I don't know if alternate by 8 hours and have 3-meeting cycle makes more sense.  Just a thought.
<AndyP> TheMuso: yes, i'll think and talk to you about it before the next meeting
<Nafallo> what does the other meetings use?
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> persia: +1 for time.
<persia> Anyone else want to propose a time/date?
<ajmitch> nope
<zul> nope
<sistpoty> nope
<Nafallo> nope
<persia> OK.  The next meeting will be 27th July, 12:00 UTC.  Any volunteers to send the annoucements?
<TheMuso> How soon before the meeting should they go out?
<ajmitch> at least a day or two
<persia> TheMuso: 1 week and 1 day, or so.
<TheMuso> Hmm ok.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.
<TheMuso> I'll put my hand up.
<persia> Next Item: Setting a date for the next Universe HUG Day.
<ajmitch> do they work?
* Nafallo reads Universal
<persia> I think they need more publicity, and perhaps a plan for things to do.  MOTU/TODO has a list, but it's huge.  Targets like those bdmurry puts together might increase participation.
<Fujitsu> How much non-MOTU participation has there been on such days in the past?
<persia> I've not even seen much MOTU participation (see the #ubuntu-motu logs for 6th July for an example)
<minghua> I agree more specific goals probably provide more motivation.
<AndyP> perhaps we could set a date, put some extra effort into announcing it where it matters (planet, forums, sounder, #ubuntu etc.) and really pay attention to how it performs to review it at the next meeting
<minghua> Debian's Bug Squash Party usually concentrate on RC bugs, I wish MOTU can have similar things.
<persia> Any volunteers to coordinate with BugSquad, prepare a list of goals, set a date, and make an announcement?  20th July seems a fair target (two weeks from the last)
<minghua> Core devs probably use milestones, but I don't think many universe packages use those.
<sistpoty> can LP sort bugs according to number of subscriptions (to have some popcon like info)?
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: Not at the moment.
<Fujitsu> There's meant to be a votingish feature coming soon.
<sistpoty> nice
<persia> In the absence of such volunteers, any objections to having a Universe HUG day like the last on 20th July?
<sistpoty> nope
<Fujitsu> If we can advertise enough, sounds good.
<persia> Fujitsu: Would you be willing to send announcements, get something in UMN, and on the fridge?
<Fujitsu> I've got no idea how to do the last two, but I can probably work it out.
<minghua> The worst case would be just no participation.  So no objections.
<Fujitsu> UWN, you mean?
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks a lot (and yes, UWN - my frequency analysis seems to be broken)
<persia> OK.  Next item: setting dates for the next REVU days.  Are Mondays good?  Shall we do two again, or is one better?
<TheMuso> Two is good, and I think we need a list of packages that are close to being uploaded.
<TheMuso> ready for upload even.
<minghua> A wiki page that an MOTU can say "this looks good to me, asking for a second advocate?"
<minghua> Or is that already possible to filter on REVU page?
<persia> minghua: That's visible in REVU for any uploads with (1) in place.
<TheMuso> But I am thinking of packages that don't have an advocate yet, but could, with a little work from the uploader.
<minghua> persia: I see.
<minghua> Would be nice to have (0.5). :-P
<sistpoty> patches are welcome :P (and an active maintainer replacing me as well *g*)
<persia> How about a change to REVU practices, asking REVUers to report advocation on #ubuntu-motu?
<TheMuso> Sounds ok to me.
* ScottK says hi.
* persia volunteers to update the REVU wiki page to reflect that
<sistpoty> hi ScottK
<persia> OK.  Unless there is more discussion, we'll have REVU days on the 16th and 23rd.  Any volunteers to send an annoucement about them?
* sistpoty can do this
<persia> sistpoty: Thanks.
<persia> Next Item: Setting a time & date for MOTU Q&A sessions.
* TheMuso was around for a previous one, and didn't see any action.
<TheMuso> i.e one this last week.
<ajmitch> again, have these been useful?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: aye
<TheMuso> as in, the same question.
<persia> Shall we stop advertising special sessions, instead encouraging people to ask in #ubuntu-motu anytime?  Would announcing that the Q&A session is underway in #ubuntu-motu help?
<Fujitsu> Shall we start running around and panicing because we have almost no new contributors?
* ajmitch tends not to visit Yet Another Channel
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes
<TheMuso> I think if people have a question, encourage them to ask it, and if they aren't going to be around, for them to possibly leave a mail address so somebody can contact them?
<persia> ajmitch: We moved them to #ubuntu-motu in the last meeting.
<minghua> And worse, we are losing old ones.
<persia> Fujitsu: I've seen a couple new names in the past month.  It's just slow, probably because of school schedules in much of the world.
<Fujitsu> Right, we're pretty much dead. Yay.
<Kioshen> Well I thing you guys do a pretty good job already trying to bring new people in
<Kioshen> s/thing/think
<Kioshen> Prodding people to go at #ubuntu-motu for questions should be enough, maybe do a special session at the start of a new cycle too
<sistpoty> Kioshen: sounds like a good idea to me
<Kioshen> I really liked the Open Week thingie too
<Kioshen> maybe not that big but at the start of a cycle it should be enough to kick start interest
<persia> OK.  Let's have a last session at 0:00 and 12:00 UTC for July, and create a proposal for active Q&A during the beginning of the cycle to be discussed at the next meeting, as I don't think stopping Q&A sessions should happen without an agenda item.
<Kioshen> the mentors program should keep people going
<persia> s/July/July 26/
<sistpoty> right... have there been any ubuntu-school sessions lately (I guess I was thinking at these actually)
<Fujitsu> motu-school? I haven't seen one of them this year.
<TheMuso> Me neither.
<sistpoty> ha... even got the name wrong *g*
<Kioshen> maybe fleshing out more the recipe section should be better
<Kioshen> people could look it up whenever they could
<minghua> Recipe is persia's recent work, right?
<persia> minghua: No, dholbach deserves credit for that.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: other times that we've tried school sessions few people were interested
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I noticed that :(
<TheMuso> I wonder whether most people perceive the barrier of entry to doing MOTU work is way to high...
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I guess people would be interested if sessions were e.g. before merges on the topic how to merge etc.
<TheMuso> ...and that we don't use things like checkinstall *shudder*
<ajmitch> TheMuso: good point, we should switch to checkinstall
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I know, we need to accept checkinstalled packages.
<sistpoty> (as in at the begining of a new work period of a cycle)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu, ajmitch, I just think people don't understand why we do it the supposed hard way.
<TheMuso> And think its too hard in any case.
* Fujitsu wonders where Debian gets all its contributors.
<ajmitch> because we're mean
<ajmitch> debian is known as a more technical distro
<Kioshen> Fujitsu: because it's upstream for so many people ?
<minghua> TheMuso: I also feel the barrier of keep doing MOTU work is a bit high, as policies and procedures keep changing.
<TheMuso> minghua: Yeah, but with software evolution, and collaboration, things are always going to keep changing.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Because Debian has "if you want to maintain this package, you'd better be using it and care about it a lot" policy.  I don't know how they got that many people either, though.
<persia> Any volunteers to draft a recruitment plan for discussion, perhaps including motu-school, Q&A sessions, Ubuntu Open Week, and MOTU/Recipes?
<minghua> Probably just because they have existed forever.
<minghua> TheMuso: I know there's not much can be done about it.  I am not complaining, either.
<sistpoty> minghua: iirc debian wondered how ubuntu did get that much contributors not too long ago, right?
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: Debian is very deceived, then.
<sistpoty> or we are as well? *g*
<minghua> sistpoty: I don't recally such a thing. :-P
<minghua> s/recally/recall/
<Kioshen> Probably most distro is always looking for more people :)
<sistpoty> ok, back to topic, shall we?
<persia> OK.  Getting back to the agenda: Any objections to 0:00 and 12:00 UTC on 26th July (two weeks from the last)?  Any volunteers to draft a proposal to replace MOTU Q&A sessions?
<ScottK> we need a proposal to stop scheduling them?
<ScottK> Why not just stop.
<persia> ScottK: Yes, or at least a non-fixed agenda item to remove them from the fixed agenda items.
* ScottK moves we just decide to do that now.
<persia> ScottK: It may be that someone not attending this meeting has an interest in the Q&A sessions.
<Fujitsu> Right, anybody have any objections to destroying MOTU Q&A sessions?
<sistpoty> how about raising the topic on the ML and setting it as topic for next meeting as well?
<persia> sistpoty +1
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: +1
<ScottK> Well I think the level of interest has been pretty well established by the lack of attendence.
<Kioshen> sistpoty: +1
<ScottK> -1: Bureacratic overkill.
<minghua> ScottK: As long as you are not asked to write the mail to list, why object?  Maybe -0?
<persia> sistpoty's suggestion passes, with four voting in favour, 1 voting against, and 85 abstentions
<Fujitsu> 85?
<ScottK> Well I think one reason people are reluctant to contribute is to many rules and to much process.
<TheMuso> sistpoty: +1
<ScottK> 84
<Fujitsu> Woah, 90 with upload privileges...
<persia> Fujitsu: No, just meeting attendees.
<ajmitch> heh
<minghua> ScottK: I agree.  But I think without those rules and processes, things will get worse.
<Fujitsu> persia: Yes, but I just noticed we had so many MOTU.
<ScottK> It's a balance.
* minghua doubts ubotu has voting right. :-P
<sistpoty> ScottK: I don't mind a vote now... I just haven't made up my mind enough to even vote a clear +1 yet
<Fujitsu> minghua: Worse?
<Fujitsu> How can things get much worse?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: no procedures/policies?
<Kioshen> Fujitsu: QA seems relevant to me
<Fujitsu> Some of them are necessary.
<Fujitsu> Kioshen: Q&A, not QA.
<minghua> Fujitsu: You don't think that if we say "MOTU can upload however he/she likes, no policy at all", things won't get worse?
<Kioshen> Fujitsu: QA as in Quality Assurance
<Fujitsu> Kioshen: Right, but that's not what we're talking about here...
<Fujitsu> minghua: We need some policy, sure.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Yeah, so as ScottK said, it's a balance.
* Fujitsu has to run off and unload the dishwasher now, so brb.
<persia> That's it for our agenda.  Thanks for attending.  Anyone willing to draft the minutes?
<minghua> I agree the current policies/procedure is a bit higher than needed and scares away people, but I don't know where the balance it.
* ScottK thinks the less required structure (like mentors is not required) we have that doesn't affect package quality the better.
<minghua> I volunteer for drafting minutes, if no one else does.
<ajmitch> minghua: thanks
<persia> minghua: Thanks.
<sistpoty> thanks everyone and thanks persia for hosting and minghua for the minutes :=
<sistpoty> +)
<TheMuso> Thanks folks.
<TheMuso> Now we return you to your scheduled programming...
<minghua> Okay.  But it will be my first minute, so I need you guys' help. :-)
<persia> minghua: I'd be happy to help.
<ScottK> Did the clamav work come up at all before I got here?
<persia> minghua: First, grab the minutes from the last meeting (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-06-30) and copy them into a new wiki page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-07-14).  Edit them to match the current meeting, etc.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: No.
<persia> ScottK: No (not on the agenda).  I think your email was really good, and sufficient without discussion.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Thanks.  Just checking.  Just got back from going out to dinner.
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.
<persia> minghua: Next, add your new minutes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/Minutes, and annouce them to the mailing list (I recommend replying to the meeting announcement)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Jul 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<man-di> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 14 Jul 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<man-di> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 14 2007, 12:41:55 - Next meeting: Xubuntu Developers in 4 hours 18 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<j1mc> any xubunteros here?
<BFTD> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<BFTD> Here
<j1mc> hiya BFTD, Knightlust
<BFTD> the others are coming
<j1mc> ok
<j1mc> hi all
<Knightlust> good evening, or morning
<j1mc> hi Knightlust
<j1mc> 12:00pm here
<j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<j1mc> i think we only had one item on the agenda
<Knightlust> hi j1mc: and it's 1am  here.. heh
* j1mc waves at the other side of the world
<j1mc> ... we'll be quick then.
<vidd_laptop> 13:00 here
<mr_pouit> o/
<j1mc> hi vidd_laptop and mr_pouit
<j1mc> ok... i think we'll make this quick.  thanks for showing up, everyone
<j1mc> website stuff...
<j1mc> it turns out that maxamillion is swamped with school
<j1mc> and he won't have time for the website updates
<j1mc> but there's a person in the chicago-ubuntu loco team who's very good w/ drupal
<j1mc> would it be all right if he worked on updating the site?
<Knightlust> j1mc; may we know who he/she is?
<j1mc> yes, he goes by chadarius on IRC
<j1mc> i'm not sure if he has a launchpad page or wiki
<j1mc> he's very reliable, though - does IT for a bank.
<j1mc> and is very trustworthy
<j1mc> thoughts?
<Knightlust> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chadarius | http://chadarius.com/
<TheSheep> https://launchpad.net/~csutton-chadarius
<j1mc> :)
* fijam is afk
* j1mc looks at sites
<Knightlust> his blog and site looks ok. and seems to be a very active fan of drupal. +1 from me.
<j1mc> any others?
<BFTD> Yeah
<BFTD> he's good
<j1mc> TheSheep: what are your thoughts?
<BFTD> I should say, he's good enough
<TheSheep> j1mc: I don't feel like I have anything to say about this, I'll be happy to help if I can
<TheSheep> j1mc: he looks very good
<j1mc> ok... fair enough
<TheSheep> I mean his sites ;)
<BFTD> haha
<BFTD> yeah
<j1mc> haha... ok.  i'll put it out to the lists, just so people can have their say.
<j1mc> plus, i think people like TheSheep and maxamillion at least need to be available to say, "this is what we'd like improved" and the like
<j1mc> so that whoever takes this up isn't lost.
<TheSheep> oh, you can get all the criticism you want from me :)
<j1mc> hahaha  :)
<j1mc> anything else on the website?
<TheSheep> I think we should design the actual content
<j1mc> "we" meaning the xubuntu team?
<TheSheep> well, someone
<BFTD> I could...do something, I've been into server/web design like crazy lately
<BFTD> but I'm not sure what to do
<TheSheep> if the new looks is going to be similar to ubuntu's site, then the current page structure doesn't fit
<TheSheep> otoh it could be left to organically grow as the page is redesigned
<TheSheep> actually that might be better
* j1mc nods
<BFTD> yeah
<TheSheep> but really Chadarius should decide :)
<j1mc> i'm trying to think how you could communicate these ideas to the folks who have time to put things together
<Knightlust> i agree, a template would be nice, probably hosted on a sandbox like a free webhost, this way we can check on the progress real-time, before we give the thumbs up.
<j1mc> i (as i'm sure others probably do) have a spare box on which i could host something
<j1mc> just through dyn-dns, but it would work fine
<TheSheep> Knightlust: it's not like we have any choice ;)
<BFTD> vidd.us
<BFTD> I'm working on it
<Knightlust> heh, yeah.
<BFTD> I think I can get something set up if you want
<j1mc> BFTD: what is vidd.us hosted on?
<BFTD> Xubuntu, Apache 2.2
<j1mc> 400mhz celeron or... ?
<BFTD> no
<vidd_laptop> j1mc, i have a colocated box
<BFTD> dual Xeon
<BFTD> vidd.us is running Apache/2.2.3 (Ubuntu) DAV/2 PHP/5.2.1 mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8
<BFTD> or was the something else?
<j1mc> ok.  and you would be willing to host the test site?
<BFTD> that*
<BFTD> anyways, vidd should know
<vidd_laptop> i think he wants to know what kind of power i have under the hood
<BFTD> yeah
<BFTD> which to be honest I don't really know, I thought Jester said something like Xeons
<j1mc> sorry, yes, just wanted to know if it was a decent machine
<j1mc> but that sounds like the best option...
<j1mc> :)
<vidd_laptop> i dont rightly recall.....but it is a headless server, without X
<BFTD> I'll find out
<j1mc> so... i think we just need to arrange a couple things:
* vidd_laptop sets up a vidd.us/~xubuntu 
<j1mc> -- i need to confirm w/ chad all the way that he can do it
<j1mc> -- we need a rundown of what we want changed (mailing list)
<j1mc> -- he'd need access to vidd.us
<j1mc> -- the template... we would need the template, too
<j1mc> TheSheep: you still have the template?  :)
<BFTD> its a Pentium III
<j1mc> BFTD: that should be fine.  :)
<BFTD> yeah
<TheSheep> j1mc: yes, the url is the same
* j1mc forgot the url
<TheSheep> http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/website2007/
<j1mc> thanks, TheSheep :)
<vidd_laptop> j1mc, PM me the desired password
<j1mc> ok... thanks all... hopefully this will all work.  :)
<Knightlust> adjourned?
<j1mc> not quite... two other really quick things
<TheSheep> j1mc: there is also a trabla
<TheSheep> tarball
<TheSheep> http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/website2007.tar.gz
<j1mc> cool.  :)  thanks.  :)
<BFTD> um, what do you guys think of putting a large image link to the download on top of the page?
<j1mc> i'll remove references to those url's from the meeting archives, just to be safe
<BFTD> kinda like ubuntu.com, or maybe something very noticeable alongt he side
<j1mc> that's not a bad idea, but ... do you think we should save it for the designers and the like?
<j1mc> let them hash it out?
<BFTD> sure
<BFTD> I guess that is something they do
<BFTD> any word of a shipit system?
<j1mc> a couple of other notes:  jmak is going to be posting drafts of the artwork he's been working on
<TheSheep> j1mc: I don't mind the urls
<j1mc> he said that he might do so this weekend.
<TheSheep> j1mc: the files were checked out form a public svn
<j1mc> oh, ok
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> BFTD: Mark Shuttleworth has indicated that there won't be a shipit for xubuntu.
<BFTD> ok
<j1mc> he said so diplomatically, though.  it came up in ubuntu-open week.
<vidd_laptop> ok...how about an "unofficial" shipit-like program?
<Knightlust> yeah, too bad, xubuntu would 'remain' a project.
<j1mc> vidd_laptop: what do you mean?
<vidd_laptop> like get shipping info and mail ppl disks
<vidd_laptop> just like shipit, but not from shipit
<j1mc> if you'd want to make that happen, i don't think anyone would stop you.
<BFTD> haha
* Knightlust is concerned about 'who will fund it'
<BFTD> I can like, cover the west cost...
<Knightlust> but it still is a great idea
<BFTD> I need about $30-$40 and I can do it...
* vidd_laptop needs only to know shipping rates
<BFTD> I mean, I shouldn't be getting to much...
<j1mc> BFTD: are you serious?
<BFTD> we would have to limit it to...
<BFTD> j1mc somewhat, I'm not exactly sure on the price...
<BFTD> I have like 600 CD-R's
<j1mc> brb (bathroom)  :)
<BFTD> I'll just write Xubuntu on them...
<BFTD> yeah brb
* vidd_laptop can get a spool of disks reasonably cheep....
<TheSheep> it's better to press them
<j1mc> i agree with TheSheep.  any CD's sent out by any "shipit" type function should be pressed
<TheSheep> the difference in price is like 10x
<j1mc> yeah
<j1mc> if anything like this were to be done, i would suggest that it only be done for LTS releases
<BFTD> hrm
<j1mc> but ... :)  if others disagree, it's ok.  :)  because they would be doing it.
<j1mc> :)
<vidd_laptop> how do you "press" cd's?
<Knightlust> if that's the case then, will canonical fund an LTS pressed cd?
<j1mc> not sure...
<TheSheep> vidd_laptop: you go to a company that does that and order 6k pressed cds for $0.01 a piece ;)
<BFTD> I'd have to get a printer that'll do CD pressing, or get litescribe
* fijam is back here
<fijam> hello everyone
<TheSheep> BFTD: I think you're talking about printing the pictures on top of the cds?
<BFTD> yeah
<j1mc> i think that if people are interested in this, they can pursue it, but... i don't want to have the group dwell on it
<BFTD> haha
<BFTD> ok
* vidd_laptop will look into that.... TheSheep ....think we can get a live/alt combo dvd iso?
<j1mc> seeing as fijam is here, i'll just say that we're plugging along on xubuntu-docs
<TheSheep> BFTD: I was rather thinking of pressing the cds themselves, so that you don't have to buy cd-rs and burn them
<BFTD> oh
<BFTD> I see
<BFTD> well
<j1mc> if you want to see our status / you can see here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation/Assignments
<j1mc> it's a bit slow, yes, but we are picking up speed
<j1mc> i'll be submitting some patches early next week
<j1mc> (mon / tues)
<j1mc> anything else from anyone?
<BFTD> Xubuntu doesn't have any games....
<TheSheep> BFTD: that's afeature, not bug :)
<BFTD> we should have some added for Gusty
<fijam> haha
<BFTD> haha
<BFTD> chess, sudoku, monjong
<j1mc> BFTD: that would be worth bringing up with maxamillion and cody somerville.
<BFTD> j1mc games is something I can do
<j1mc> we've discussed games in xubuntu at length in prior meetings (even for gutsy) and on the ML
<BFTD> in a way
<vidd_laptop> BFTD, the games chosen will need to be light and already in main
<BFTD> right...chess, sudoku, monjong
<TheSheep> netris
<BFTD> yeah
<TheSheep> bsdgames
<fijam> fortune :)
<BFTD> ok
<BFTD> so I guess that means I have to get gusty :P
<j1mc> seriously, i'm not against including games in xubuntu, but we've gone over it before - even recently.
<vidd_laptop> j1mc, did you get my PM about the vidd.us/~xubuntu?
<j1mc> vidd_laptop: yes!  sorry i need to /msg nickserv to be able to respond, though
<j1mc> sorry!
<vidd_laptop> that is ok...just wanted to make sure you got it....
<vidd_laptop> ftp, ssh, and httpd are all set up
<BFTD> well then, along with that I'll take the games section on the docs
<TheSheep> haha
<j1mc> BFTD: would you be able to get games included in xubuntu?
<TheSheep> BFTD: don't forget comprehensive guides for Rogue and Adventure ;)
<j1mc> ok... any other topics?
<BFTD> yeah I might
<BFTD> I have to go and get gutsy
<BFTD> and I need to install it onto an old system
<BFTD> so that I'll know it'll be low-end machine friendly
<j1mc> ok
<j1mc> anything else?
<j1mc> thanks for your time today, everyone
<BFTD> alright, good meeting everyone
<Knightlust> alright, have a nice day to everyone.
<Kmos> when there is the meeting to approve new ubuntu members?
<BFTD> its the CC meeting
<ompaul> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | 16 Jul 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Kmos> where's the CC one ?
<BFTD> Kmos the date isn't set yet
<Kmos> :(
<Kmos> ok
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-07
<popey> @schedule
<ubottu> popey: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 08 Jul 11:00:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00:  Server Team | 09 Jul 17:00: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00: Desktop Team
<popey> phew
<Alibb> @now
<ubottu> Alibb: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 07 2008, 18:38:35 - Next meeting: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board in 16 hours 21 minutes
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-08
<Belutz> @schedule Jakarta
<ubottu> Belutz: Schedule for Asia/Jakarta: 08 Jul 18:00:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 18:00: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 22:00:  Server Team | 10 Jul 00:00: QA Team | 10 Jul 05:00: Platform Team | 10 Jul 20:00: Desktop Team
 * persia does the dance of preparedness (which may take 20 minutes)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<amachu> elky: TheMuso: persia: lifeless: Hi
<TheMuso> amachu: Hi. There is nobody on the agenda.
<amachu> Yes
<TheMuso> amachu: And lifeless said he likely may not be around.
<amachu> ok
<TheMuso> I'm all for postponing the meeting, unless there is something else we need to discuss.
<elky> i second postponing
<persia> Why postpone?  Let's have the meeting now, and call it done, and have another next week.
<elky> heh
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<TheMuso> haha
 * persia moves to adjourn the meeting
<elky> whichever way works
<TheMuso> Seconded.
<elky> that's probably the word we were looking for
<elky> my brain started switching off about half an hour ago
<TheMuso> lol
 * persia waits for our fearless leader to take a decision based on the motion
<persia> elky: slow switch, or just intermittent for a while?
<elky> we have a leader?
<elky> persia, like water cooling
<elky> so the former ;)
<persia> Didn't we declare amachu lord high leader, secretary for life, and continual chair so the rest of us could get out of writing anything up?
<amachu_> persia?
<elky> ah right, indeed!
<elky> amachu, no agenda: luke, emmet and i all voted for postpone. aye or nay?
<persia> s/postpone/adjourn
<amachu_> elky: persia : TheMuso : so shall we have our next meeting on 22 Kuly
<amachu_> July
<amachu_> elky: I agree
<elky> persia, stop making me look like a fool :Ã
<persia> 22 works for me.
<elky> yep
<TheMuso> Yep that works for me also.
<persia> elky: Sorry.  It's a bit earlier here, so I have an advantage :)
<elky> persia, cheat!
<elky> g'nite guys
<TheMuso> Night.
<amachu_> so we decide to have our next meeting on 22 July 08, 11.00 AM UTC
<elky> amachu, i believe so
<amachu_> elky: g'nite
 * elky wanders off to tv land for a few hours
<amachu_> fine then
<amachu_> anything else to shared, discussed?
<persia> amachu: Nope.
<amachu_> persia: ok. I will update the wiki accordingly. Thank you everyone for participating
<amachu_> have good day/ evening/ night ;-)
<amachu_> bye!
<Belutz> hi all, sorry I just finished a meeting
<persia> Belutz: No problem.  We had a quick meeting.  The only agenda items were 1) to schedule the next meeting for the 22nd, and 2) to adjourn.
<Belutz> persia, ah ok
<Belutz> persia, 22nd with the same time?
<persia> Yep.
<Belutz> ok, thanks persia :)
<persia> My understanding is that we're skipping the 15th as the third Tuesday, which would be conflicting with the CC meeting.
<Belutz> persia, ok :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU
<kirkland> howdy all
 * mathiaz waves
<sommer> yo
<nxvl> \o\ |o| /o/ |o| \o\
<lukehasnoname> Kernkraft - Zombie Nation
<zul> hello
<nijaba> o/
<mathiaz> allright - let's get started
<Koon> \o
<mathiaz> for today's server team meeting !
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> last meeting logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080701
<mathiaz> I've updated the Roadmap
<mathiaz> so that we knwo what's we're working on during this release cycle
<mathiaz> if things are missing there, add them to the wiki page
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<kirkland> mathiaz: i still owe you an update to the Roadmap on the LSB init script stuff
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'll do that today
<mathiaz> kirkland: great - thanks
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to update the lsb section on the roadmap
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to update the lsb section on the roadmap
<nxvl>  need to add the augeas thing also
<mathiaz> kirkland: do you know what you wanna add there ?
<nxvl> i will try to do it tonight
<kirkland> mathiaz: yeah, so the status_of_proc() function is in Ubuntu's lsb, and has been pushed to Debian, where the maintainer says he likes it, and will integrate after the Debian freeze is over
<kirkland> mathiaz: there's a list of package in this bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/lsb/+bug/203169
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 203169 in samba ""status" function for init scripts" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - so now we need to update the package to use this lsb function
<kirkland> mathiaz: those are the key server packages where I'd like to submit a stack of very small patches to use this function
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'm going to try and knock all of those out today
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - great !
<kirkland> mathiaz: should only take a few hours
<nxvl> kirkland: so finally the DM accepted the patch? Awesome!
<kirkland> mathiaz: I will need sponsorship, of course
<zul> kirkland: feel free to bug me
<nxvl> kirkland: and me
<kirkland> zul: awesome!
<kirkland> nxvl: cool!
<nxvl> i have some time this weekend
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'd advise you to go through the sponsorship queue
<kirkland> mathiaz: right, i will certainly do that
<mathiaz> great - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<mathiaz> Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap.
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap.
<mathiaz> nealmcb: any new factoids ?
<mathiaz> sommer: I've looked into the splitting the server guide from the big ubuntu-doc branch
<mathiaz> sommer: It seems really easy to achieve
<mathiaz> sommer: so one option we could do is to push our own branch - and then you could merge it the ubuntu-doc branch
<mathiaz> sommer: I'm not sure if that would work well, but we could give it a try
<sommer> mathiaz: yep, and the more I think about it the more I'm all for it :)
<mathiaz> sommer: the ubuntu-doc bzr branch uses a format that support sub-tree, so it's really easy to split a sub-directory in its own branch
<sommer> mathiaz: do you know what needs to happen as far as the current LP branch?  I guess I'm not too familiar with the branching process
<mathiaz> sommer: however I haven't figured out how to deal with translations
<mathiaz> sommer: no yet - I'm still experimenting with it
<sommer> mathiaz: translations, are really one of the biggest issues when dealing with the docs... for me it's easy to forget about them
<nxvl> i have some workaround on a bzr branch on how to do translations
<sommer> mathiaz: great, just let me know how I can help :)
<nxvl> the script is ubuntu-course specific, but it won't be hard to change it
<mathiaz> sommer: well - what I don't understand is where/when the translations are included
<mathiaz> sommer: IIUC they're done in rosetta - but how do they end up in the bzr tree ?
<sommer> mathiaz: the when is after string freeze, the new strings are translated and the packages are created
<nxvl> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nvalcarcel/ubuntu-desktop-course/ubuntu-desktop-course-translation
<nxvl> this a po maker script
<mathiaz> sommer: right - so there is not point in having the .po files in the bzr branch ?
<sommer> mathiaz: I think they're synced sometime after SF
<nxvl> this is*
<sommer> mathiaz: I don't think so, at least not right away
<LaserJock> .pot files are created from the docbook, put in the source package, and they get extracted to Rosetta, then the .po files are downloaded, converted back into docbook
<mathiaz> sommer: hm - ok - I think I'll ask about that on the ubuntu-doc ml or IRC channel
<nxvl> mathiaz: rosette generates .pot files
<nxvl> mathiaz: so at some point you only need to download them and include in your release
<nxvl> rosetta*
<sommer> LaserJock: ah, thanks that makes more sense :)
<LaserJock> nxvl: rosetta generates .po files, you send it .pot files
<mathiaz> LaserJock: well - can I ask more detailed questions about the process after the meeting ?
<nxvl> LaserJock: :D I'm not a translation expert, thanks for clearing it
<LaserJock> mathiaz: sure
<mathiaz> LaserJock: thanks - let's move on
<LaserJock> mathiaz: I'm not a translation expert but I do it for edubuntu-docs
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Migrate openldap configuration to cn=config
<MootBot> New Topic:  Migrate openldap configuration to cn=config
<mathiaz> so I've started to work on that spec - and got some preliminary code
<mathiaz> I've finally understood the packaging bits and have a plan now
<mathiaz> I'd like to talk with slangasek about it and get some if his input on this
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Boot Support for Degraded RAID
<MootBot> New Topic:  Boot Support for Degraded RAID
<mathiaz> kirkland: anything new ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: nope, not yet
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok
<mathiaz> kirkland: are you blocked on something ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: the Ecryptfs work is pretty much done, i'm turning my focus now to Degraded RAID and ISCSI
<mathiaz> kirkland: or just not enough time ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: time ;-)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Encrypted ~/Private Directory in Each User's Home
<MootBot> New Topic:  Encrypted ~/Private Directory in Each User's Home
<mathiaz> kirkland: anything to test ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: I think I'm going to tackle Degraded RAID first
<kirkland> mathiaz: yes, this stuff is in pretty good shape in Intrepid now
<nealmcb> mathiaz: sorry - was distracted - we have a new kvm factoid and an updated virtualization factoid
<mathiaz> kirkland: so it's uploaded - can we ask for more widespread testing ?
<nealmcb> !kvm
<ubottu> kvm is the preferred virtualization approach in Ubuntu. For more information see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM
<nealmcb> !virtualization
<ubottu> There are several solutions for running other operating systems (or their programs) inside Ubuntu, while using the native CPU as much as possible: !kvm is the preferred approach in Ubuntu.  See also !QEmu (with !KQemu), !VirtualBox, !VMWare, as well as !WINE and !Cedega for Windows applications
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'll update the testing instructions in the Spec and send an email out to the server mailing list
<mathiaz> kirkland: great - could you also add an item to the Testing section on the Roadmap ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: there's one thing that has to be done manually still....
<mathiaz> nealmcb: great - thanks
<kirkland> mathiaz: one line has to be added to /etc/pam.d/common-auth, and one line to /etc/pam.d/common-session
<mathiaz> kirkland: does this need to be documented somewhere ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i need some advice from slangasek on how to do this automatically or on install
<kirkland> mathiaz: it's documented in the Spec
<kirkland> mathiaz: basically, the pam_ecryptfs.so module needs to be added to the stack
<kirkland> mathiaz: I don't understand how we can do this automatically and within Debian policy
<kirkland> mathiaz: any help here would be much appreciated
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to update the testing instructions in the Spec and send an email out to the server mailing list about ecrypts fs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to update the testing instructions in the Spec and send an email out to the server mailing list about ecrypts fs
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'd suggest to send an email to ubuntu-devel@
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay, will do
<dendrobates> kirkland: I have some ideas as well.
<kirkland> dendrobates: yeah?
<kirkland> dendrobates: let's talk offline, then
<dendrobates> kirkland: ok
<mathiaz> [ACTION]: kirkland to ask for feedback on how to add the pam_ecryptfs module to the pam stack
<MootBot> ACTION received: : kirkland to ask for feedback on how to add the pam_ecryptfs module to the pam stack
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Migrate new installs and upgrades of client and server packages to use SSL v3 or TLS
<MootBot> New Topic:  Migrate new installs and upgrades of client and server packages to use SSL v3 or TLS
<mathiaz> ivoks: ?
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> sorry for being late
<ivoks> this is just configuration change
<mathiaz> ivoks: np - just in time for your spec :)
<ivoks> for all services, so only patches needed are for config files
<ivoks> this is a no brainer, and will be done at the end of this week
<mathiaz> ivoks: do you have a list of services that needs to be updated ?
<ivoks> (i'm just busy these days with exams on faculty; tomorrow is the last one)
<mathiaz> ivoks: I don't see it on the wiki page
<mathiaz> ivoks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MigrateOffSSL2
<ivoks> apache2, dovecot, postfix
<ivoks> i'll finish wiki after tomorrow
<mathiaz> ivoks: these are the only services ?
<ivoks> only that come to my mind atm
<mathiaz> [ACTION]: ivoks to update the MigrateOffSSL2 wiki page with a list of services that needs to be checked and fixed
<MootBot> ACTION received: : ivoks to update the MigrateOffSSL2 wiki page with a list of services that needs to be checked and fixed
<ivoks> i'll take a look at openldap also
<mathiaz> ivoks: great - thanks.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Integration of Dovecot SASL and Postfix
<MootBot> New Topic:  Integration of Dovecot SASL and Postfix
<mathiaz> ivoks: while you're around - ^^
<ivoks> shoot :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: one question I have is why use dovecot sasl ?
<ivoks> yes, openldap is a config change too
<ivoks> TLSCipherSuite HIGH:MEDIUM:-SSLv2
<mathiaz> ivoks: while doing some prep work for the kerberos spec, I quickly looked at sasl
<ivoks> mathiaz: saslauthd?
<mathiaz> ivoks: there are indeed two implementations of sasl in main, cyrus an dovecot
<ivoks> right
<mathiaz> ivoks: unfortunately support for dovecot sasl is almost inexistent (only exim and postfix)
<mathiaz> ivoks: so we need to keep cyrus-sasl in main for the other services
<nxvl> mathiaz: i have deploy dovecot with sasl before, is painful but it can be done
<ivoks> so... basicaly, why not do postfix and cyrus too?
<ivoks> s/cyrus/dovecot
<mathiaz> ivoks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication/KerberizeServices
<mathiaz> ivoks: ^^ there is a list of services in main that support sasl
<ivoks> ok
<mathiaz> ivoks: so the aim is to provide an easy way to enable sasl auth in postfix - why not choose cyrus ?
<sommer> mathiaz: don't you have to change the cyrus socket location if using postfix in chroot?  which could cause an issue if running those other services on the same box?
<mathiaz> sommer: well - you'd have the same problem with dovecot
<sommer> with dovecot you have to change the location as well, but since less services can use it less are affected
<ivoks> well... there is no special reason, except the chrooted postfix, but that's the same problem with dovecot
<ivoks> doh.. :)
<sommer> heh
<sommer> it just feels to me that dovecot and postfix make a good match... plus they're both mail related so they might be more likely to be installed on the same box
<ivoks> i don't recall what were the reasons to move to dovecot
<mathiaz> well - my main argument is that most of services in main use cyrus sasl
<ivoks> except that setting dovecot's sasl is easy and all packages are already there
<mathiaz> and it seems that it will be the case for quite some time as supporting dovecot sasl require hacking the src code IIUC
<sommer> and postfix is by default in chroot
<ivoks> fwiw, we will have the same packaging problems with both variants
<mathiaz> ivoks: aggreed
<sommer> would un-chrooting postfix alleviate some of the pain?
<mathiaz> ivoks: so it may worth looking into improving cyrus sasl experience
<ivoks> sure
<ivoks> if cyrus is way to go for everything else... well, it would be silly not to go there with postfix and dovecot, too
<mathiaz> ivoks: so - should we retarget to integrate cyrus sasl instead of dovecot sasl for postfix ?
 * ivoks cries...
<ivoks> ah well, ok :D
<mathiaz> ivoks: could you look into that and report back what needs to be done to integrate postfix and cyrus sasl ?
<ivoks> life would be much easier if postfix wouldn't be chrooted :/
<ivoks> mathiaz: simple: get postfix out of jail or add another 'meta' package that would delete cyrus socket, create it in postfix chroot, and then link old location
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to look into cyrus sasl/postfix integration
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to look into cyrus sasl/postfix integration
<mathiaz> ivoks: I'll update the roadmap then.
<ivoks> ok
<mathiaz> [ACTION]: mathiaz to update the Roadmap wrt postfix sasl integration
<MootBot> ACTION received: : mathiaz to update the Roadmap wrt postfix sasl integration
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Manpage Repository
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Manpage Repository
<mathiaz> kirkland: ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: awaiting Kees' security audit
<kirkland> mathiaz: elmo has agreed to provide hosting for it
<kirkland> mathiaz: elmo just asked kees to sign off on the code
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - great
<kirkland> mathiaz: there's a Launchpad project if anyone else wants to review
 * nealmcb cheers
<mathiaz> kirkland: where ?
<nxvl> kirkland: i can make a security audit on it, did you have some branch or link i can break?
<nxvl> :D
<kirkland> mathiaz: nxvl: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manpage-repository
<nxvl> (just to make things faster on kees revition)
<kirkland> mathiaz: i might add that the command line interface, "dman" absolutely kicks arse!
<mathiaz> kirkland: could add a reference to dman to the spec somewhere ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: instant access from a command line to any man page in any ubuntu release dapper - intrepid, main/universe/multiverse/restricted
<mathiaz> kirkland: so that we can keep track of it ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: well, i'd like to actually submit that to the "man" package once the backend repo is up on it's permanent ubuntu.com home
<kirkland> mathiaz: it's only about 20 lines that does a wget and pipes to man
<kirkland> mathiaz: just a shell wrapper
<mathiaz> kirkland: sure
<kirkland> http://ubuntu.dustinkirkland.com/dman
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntu.dustinkirkland.com/dman
<kirkland> mathiaz: it's temporarily housed in the same LP project as the repository code
<mathiaz> kirkland: seems great to me
<mathiaz> let's move on
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'm going to send it to cjwatson eventually
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Call for user experiences on WBEM/CIM Servers
<MootBot> New Topic:  Call for user experiences on WBEM/CIM Servers
<mathiaz> Koon: ^ ?
<Koon> I've been investigating possibilities we have for integrating a WBEM/CIM server in Ubuntu server
<Koon> I was wondering if anyone in the team had any experience with that he would like to share
<Koon> the possibilities are : OpenWBEM, SBLIM, OpenPegasus (others ?)
<Koon> anyone uses them, or has an opinion on them ?
<ivoks> guess not :)
 * sommer hasn't used any
<Koon> ivoks: heh ;)
<Koon> ok, let's move on then :)
 * nxvl doesn't even know what they are or do
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Intrepid alpha 2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Intrepid alpha 2
<mathiaz> A reminder that we're gearing up for Alpha2 to be released this thursday
<ivoks> nxvl: something blabla enterprise blabla :D
<ivoks> already?!
<mathiaz> there is a soft freezr in effect as announced by pitti:
<ivoks> doh...
<mathiaz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-July/000445.html
<nxvl> ivoks: that's what i thought
<mathiaz> that means we'll some -server isos to be tested in the next few days
<mathiaz> we'll *have*
<mathiaz> #ubuntu-testing and the iso qa tracker are the place to keep track of that
<sommer> do the isos work with kvm?
<kirkland> yeah, the kvm business is really hurting my testing
<nxvl> i always download them on my class of thursday and start testing them
<nijaba> soren said he would upload a patch to fix that shortly
<mathiaz> sommer: I don't know - I'm not sure :/
<sommer> Yay!
<nxvl> sommer: i always test them using KVM
<nxvl> sommer: with virt-manaer
<nxvl> manager*
<mathiaz> sommer: a new kernel has been uploaded - I was able to boot an intrepid guest
<mathiaz> sommer: but there were tons of oopses
<sommer> mathiaz: oh cool, I checked a while back and wasn't able to boot... will try again :)
<mathiaz> sommer: yes - 2.4.26-2 wasn't working at all
<mathiaz> sommer: 2.6.26-3 should work
<nxvl> i have some intrepid guest generated by u-vm-builder without problems
<nxvl> u just needed to create them as a hardy and then upgrade
<nealmcb> Koon: if you have a version of your request for wbem/cim info that is a bit more expanded and in context I'd be happy to forward it to folks that should know....
<Koon> nealmcb: great, will send that to you
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<mathiaz> anything else to add ?
<nxvl> o/
<sommer> I was wondering if we could get a serverguide factiod?
<sommer> at least that's a url I copy and paste a lot :)
<mathiaz> nealmcb: ^^ could you take care of that ?
<nxvl> yes please!
<mathiaz> nxvl: you wanted to add something ?
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> Augeas is about to reach the archive
<nxvl> i have already worked on a list of suggested/needed services
<nxvl> and i have already get some lenses
<nxvl> i talked to raphink earlier today and he said he has some and he will mail them to me
<nxvl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCentralizedServiceAdministrator/Augeas
<nxvl> this is the list
<nxvl> if you have some suggestions on it, or want to add/remove something
<nxvl> i will be really grateful
<nxvl> (if you want to write some lenses better)
<nxvl> i also wrote a call for lensers
<nxvl> but i thing i do it on a bad time (sunday)
<mathiaz> @schedule
<ubottu> mathiaz: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Server Team | 09 Jul 17:00: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00: MOTU
<nxvl> mathiaz: so if you make echo on the ubuntu server blog it would be really cool
<nxvl> original post can be found here: http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/?p=199
<mathiaz> nxvl: I'll write something up - it will be in the minutes anyway :)
<mathiaz> anything else to add ?
<nxvl> not from me
<nxvl> that's all i wanted to add
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> same place, same time, next week ?
<sommer> works for me
<ivoks> yes, sound good...
<mathiaz> excellent than - see you all next week here at the same time
<mathiaz> thanks for coming and happy iso testing !
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:03.
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
 * nealmcb will talk to sommer about serverguide factoids
<nijaba> Thanks mathiaz
 * nealmcb was distracted by a house guest...
<nealmcb> !documentation
<ubottu> documentation is to be found at http://help.ubuntu.com and http://wiki.ubuntu.com - General linux documentation: http://www.tldp.org - http://rute.2038bug.com
<sommer> nealmcb: could we get a !serverguide, with a specific link... and maybe linking the development docs?
<nealmcb> sommer: I would think so - but it seems like the existing documentation factoid could be enhanced also
<nealmcb> wiki.ubuntu.com isn't really documentation - and there is much confusion as  a result
<sommer> nealmcb: sounds good to me :)
<nealmcb> we can continue the chat in u-s in a bit after I finish something else
<sommer> nealmcb: cool, I'm at lunch as well
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community
<slangasek> kirkland: munging pam configs - can we fix that once for all this cycle?
<kirkland> slangasek: dendrobates has pointed me to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AuthClientConfig for that
<slangasek> kirkland: which is not what I'm talking about at al
<slangasek> all
<slangasek> AuthClientConfig is just not scalable, it only lets you switch between profiles
<slangasek> we should probably take this to #-devel, though
<kirkland> slangasek: agreed, i'm on a call at the moment
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-09
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jul 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU
 * ogasawara waves
<heno> hey
<davmor2> hello
 * dholbach hugs the QA folks :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU
<bdmurray> hi
 * heno hugs dholbach
 * davmor2 fights off dholbach's hugs
<dholbach> davmor2: that bad? :)
<davmor2> ;)
<dholbach> ROCK ON everybody - see you tomorrow
<bdmurray> tomorrow?
<heno> sbeattie, ping?
<sbeattie> heno pong
<heno> sbeattie: hello :)
<heno> we're just missing ara
<heno> I'm not sue if pedro will make it
<heno> being at GUADEC
<heno> hey ara :)
<ara> hey
<heno> ok, let's start
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:05. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> [TOPIC]: Alpha 2 testing this week
<MootBot> New Topic: : Alpha 2 testing this week
<heno> being an early alpha testing will be light
<heno> sbeattie: do you know how far along the images are?
<davmor2> heno: beings as live still doesn't work I think your right :)
<heno> slangasek: ^ ?
 * stgraber is sort of around
<slangasek> desktop images are still on the edge of being usable for alpha2; there's nothing there to be tested yet
<heno> ok, thanks
<slangasek> cjwatson is actively working on the ubiquity problems, and we also have to cope with the fact that recommends-by-default has made the ubuntu desktop image 80MB oversized - and kubuntu 200MB oversized :)
<heno> heh
<sbeattie> ouch
<davmor2> heno: it's true :)
<ogra> people should use DVDRW for testing anyway :)
<ogra> saver the environment ...
<ogra> *save
<heno> or usb thumb drives
<ogra> yeh
<ogra> +a
<heno> so we'll test alternatives and desktops if they become available
<heno> [TOPIC]: Package status prototype - feedback welcome
<MootBot> New Topic: : Package status prototype - feedback welcome
<davmor2> heno: is this for release next thursday then?
<heno> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html
<heno> davmor2: this thursday I think
<davmor2> might run out of testing time then :/
<davmor2> :-/
<heno> davmor2: right, but we should just boot test them all
<heno> and if there are no live CDs that makes it easier
<davmor2> I tried a live today it failed dismally
<ara> but are the images already available?
<afflux> hi! is it just me or do the alpha 2 images miss on the iso testing tracker? (are they even supposed to appear there?)
<heno> I'm guessing we'll release alpha 2 without lives
<afflux> (sorry if you discussed that earlier, I missed the start)
<heno> the alternates should be posted
<heno> slangasek: ^ agree?
<slangasek> I think so, yes
<davmor2> the charts look great by the way.  Will they be automated?
<sbeattie> I see live cds on cdimages, I suspect they just don't work.
<heno> sbeattie: can you update the tracker after the meeting?
<heno> sbeattie: let me know if you need a hand
<sbeattie> heno: yes, will do, can you action it?
<slangasek> fwiw, nvidia-glx-new is uninstallable on the alternates because of the X changes, so that's a bug to highlight for testers I think
<LaserJock> Leann's, pkg-stats pages are awesome!
<heno> [ACTION]: sbeattie to update iso tracker for alpha 2
<MootBot> ACTION received: : sbeattie to update iso tracker for alpha 2
<LaserJock> ogasawara: great work!
<heno> indeed!
<davmor2> slangasek: noted
<heno> everyone check http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html
<LaserJock> the one thing that struck me though
<heno> bdmurray made the graphs
<LaserJock> was that it is just bug "stuff"
<LaserJock> wereas I'm sure developers/bug workers would probably like to see some information on the package itself
<afflux> yup, looks cool. (though I thought we already had that kind of statistics, but I can't remember where...)
<bdmurray> afflux: they aren't as detailed as this
<heno> LaserJock: right, we'd love to get suggestions for that
<afflux> I see
<LaserJock> heno: at least links to Ubuntu/Debian changelogs, Ubuntu/Debian versions, links to package LP page and Debian PTS/BTS pages
<heno> Development and Testing: should be a section separate from Bugs Info and have more items
<heno> let's create https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/PackageStatusPages/Feedback and add such items there
<ogasawara> that'd be great.  I'll try to knock out as many items as I can before the sprint next week
<heno> how much of that overlaps with the LP package pages though?
<LaserJock> heno: very little
<heno> cool, we would like to add features not already on LP
<LaserJock> some of the info you can get from the LP page, but you have to dig around
<heno> and possibly later get them implemented there
<davmor2> heno: if the is an overlap you could just link to the lp page for the package
<LaserJock> but for sure LP doesn't have any of the Debian info
<heno> ok
<sbeattie> Isn't some of this also aggregation of multiple packages in LP? e.g. "gnome" and "kde" will cover quite a few, no?
<heno> yeah, this page should very much be tailored fot the audience: Ubuntu QA and dev
<heno> ogasawara: will you start that page and collect the ideas?
<ogasawara> heno:  yup
<sbeattie> do we want breakdowns by release?
<LaserJock> sbeattie: yeah, both types of pages would be useful
<heno> LaserJock: can you look over hat afterwards and add you thoughts?
<LaserJock> heno: sure
<heno> sbeattie: I'd like to have the option of historical look-back later too
<heno> see the weekly graphs from 6 months ago, say
<heno> sbeattie: are you thinking more of Hardy vs. Intrepid?
<heno> so we can follow the LTS point releases, say?
<sbeattie> yes, that too. historical comparisons are useful as well.
<LaserJock> well, it would be nice to see if a particular releast/version is really getting a lot of bugs
<heno> if anyone has further feedback please add it to the wiki
<heno> [TOPIC]: Next week's meeting - suggestion: an in person meeting at the London sprint combined phone or skype for those who are not there at 14.00 UTC
<MootBot> New Topic: : Next week's meeting - suggestion: an in person meeting at the London sprint combined phone or skype for those who are not there at 14.00 UTC
<davmor2> +1
<LaserJock> 14.00 UTC might allow some AU people to attend
<heno> we'll have both a skype box with decent sound and a conference phone in the room
<heno> LaserJock: will that be difficult for you?
 * stgraber is afk now
<heno> you are US west coast, right?
<LaserJock> not impossible for sure
<cgregan> heno: I have the skype system all set here, and there is a teleconference install going on in the main conf room here as well
<LaserJock> I think that's 7am local
<heno> cgregan: excellent!
<heno> how many people can be joined on a skype conference?
<sbeattie> LaserJock: would 1400 UTC also let Persia attend?
<heno> if we use that we don't need to distribute phone umbers and conf codes
<LaserJock> sbeattie: perhaps so
<heno> persia will be in Lexington
<LaserJock> I can't say for sure
<LaserJock> ah
<heno> I assume
<sbeattie> heno: just realized that.
<cgregan> heno: I don't know. Our test yesterday was my first skype experience
<heno> as will cgregan and ogasawara
<heno> I'm sure google will tell us
<davmor2> cgregan: noob ;)
<afflux> why not use mumble, it is opensource :P
<heno> looks like 5
 * cgregan adds a dollar to his "shrine to the internet"
<davmor2> use ekiga it on the desktop already :)
<heno> or openwengo?
<cgregan> davmor2: :-)
<afflux> IIRC skype has some limitation about 5-8 people in one conference call
<heno> I had issues with ekiga
 * afflux too
<heno> but perhaps that was just me
<cgregan> davmor2 and I have used audio only with success
 * persia peers out from an insomaniacal state and wonders which 14:00
<afflux> ekiga crashes on account setup for me :(
<davmor2> :) It was quite a good connection too :)
<heno> persia: UTC during the sprint week
<heno> cgregan: can we go through testing that between us?
<cgregan> heno: sure
<heno> if it works we'll use ekiga, if not phone
<persia> Wednesday?
<heno> persia: yes
<davmor2> heno: so that 15:00 uk time
<persia> Ah.  I've a standing meeting that day and time, and an additional conflict next week from 13:00 - 18:00 or so.
<heno> davmor2: right
<davmor2> okay
<heno> persia: that time block will be tough to work around for us
<persia> heno: No worries.  I'll read the minutes.
<heno> but we'll be available the whole week by phone/skype
<heno> ok, let's go with that time then
<heno> we'll monitor IRC as well
<heno> [TOPIC]: Ubuntu QA team update/proposal (LaserJock)
<MootBot> New Topic: : Ubuntu QA team update/proposal (LaserJock)
<LaserJock> ok, so a few things
<LaserJock> I wrote up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/UbuntuQA
<LaserJock> which is hopefully a more thorough presentation of what I'm doing
<heno> cool, thanks
<davmor2> I got to go now I'll catch up after
<LaserJock> and so far the team has 7 members (https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa/+members)
<LaserJock> and 4 bzr branches represting 4 different projects
<LaserJock> I've been talking with lots of people
<LaserJock> and trying to look at some QA needs around the community
<LaserJock> so I think we're off to a good start
<LaserJock> are there any questions about the wiki page?
<bdmurray> what is a "relevant QA team"?
<LaserJock> bugsquad, ubuntu-testing, ubuntu-dev, etc.
<LaserJock> so I'd like to start pushing people towards the mailing list and doing some announcement/PR soon
<heno> hm, i have to reboot, brb
<sbeattie> LaserJock: nice, I think I'm mostly sold.
<LaserJock> I'm sure there could be some refining around specifics, but hopefully it's good enough to get going
<sbeattie> I would like to push a little bit on how we credit/reward people doing various elements of QA work.
<heno> ... sorry about that
<LaserJock> heno: np
<LaserJock> sbeattie: yeah, that's something I think we'll have to work on some
<LaserJock> I don't have any particularlly elegant propsals for that other than recognizing work that people are doing
<sbeattie> I don't particularly have any good ideas (other than I want to be a level 10 QA Warlock)
<LaserJock> having a team that's seeing what's going on around the QA universe, IMO, lends itself more to giving each other credit
<LaserJock> for instance, ogasawara's work on that bug page is amazing
<LaserJock> and I might not have noticed that if I hadn't been talking with her already and comming to the meeting, etc.
<sbeattie> Sure, I think it's great, too, but generating webpages like is more interesting work than some of the grunt work the various QA teams do.
<bryce> it might be interesting to ask existing volunteer triagers about what motivates them, and then seek ways to maximize that (or minimize inhibitors)
<sbeattie> bryce: good idea
<LaserJock> bryce: yeah, totally
<heno> the people who have recently stepped up to organise bug days would be good candidates here
<LaserJock> yes
<heno> LaserJock: i appreciate that you have fleshed out the non-dev aspects a bit more
<heno> and we can probably extend that further still
<LaserJock> heno: yeah, I'm sorry that that came out too much last time. I'm come from a dev background and I'm afraid it showed
<LaserJock> heno: yeah
<heno> LaserJock: how do you see this team participating in the upcoming global bug jam for example
<LaserJock> heno: well, hopefully that would be something that the Ubuntu QA would help organize and participate in
<heno> that has a triage focus, but we can also benefit from dev involvement
<cgregan> heno: LoCo maryland has asked me to do a talk on QA process for the Jam.
<LaserJock> perhaps generating useful documentation and task-lists if needed
<cgregan> We could do something like that but in the wiki or elsewhere...for a larger audience
<heno> LaserJock: where would you like feedback on that writeup, in a comments section on the page, on an ML thread?
<LaserJock> perhaps a thread on ubuntu-qa would be good, to get broader discussion
<heno> ok, will you post and we can comment?
<heno> and we'll talk about it at next week's meeting
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so I'm basically going to move forward with this this week
<heno> perhaps we should propose some topics for that btw
<LaserJock> and we can refine as we go
<LaserJock> but I think we have consensus that we should move forward
<heno> LaserJock: 'move forward' means announce more broadly, invite people to join, etc?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I think the only real possible sticking point is the LP team name, and I'm confident that I/we can handle that
<heno> there was actually an ubuntu-qa name before
<heno> which was in effect bug-control
<heno> and we changed the name to reduce confusion
<LaserJock> yep
<heno> but what we are talking about now fits the name better
<LaserJock> I agree
<heno> with the more inclusive view, I'm happy with the LP name
<LaserJock> I'm up for trolling around the wiki and making appropriate changes
<LaserJock> for non-trivial ones I'd email ubuntu-qa for discussion to make sure
<heno> we should merge the LP team with the existing wiki/IRC/ML based team though
<LaserJock> I basically agree
<ara> heno: which irc channel?
<heno> so we should stick to this meeting time, use the ML
<LaserJock> I'm working on the IRC channel right now
<ara> is there already a #ubuntu-qa ??
<heno> and probably set up #ubuntu-qa
<ara> LaserJock: ok
<LaserJock> apparently #ubuntu-qa is for the Qatar LoCo team
<LaserJock> the IRC ops suggested #ubuntu-quality for lack of a better name
<heno> nand: I'm also wondering if it's time to set up #ubuntu-brainstorm ?
<LaserJock> any other suggestions?
<sbeattie> LaserJock: we all have to move to Qatar?
<LaserJock> sbeattie: hehe, yeah
<ara> :D
<LaserJock> and apparently anything #ubuntu-qa-* is owned by them as well
<LaserJock> so we can't do #ubuntu-qa-team or such
<heno> as it doesn't fit very well in #ubuntu-testing anymore
<heno> -quality sounds fine
<LaserJock> it's not quite a clear, IMO, but I think it's probably the best we can do
<LaserJock> I guess we could always ask Qatar to rename itself :-)
<bdmurray> qc?
<heno> I wonder how active that chan is?
<LaserJock> heno: it's not at all
<LaserJock> there wasn't anybody in there when I went in
<ara> bdmurray: i prefer -quality than -qc
<LaserJock> I think the meaning of QA is more generally known than QC
<LaserJock> I'm not sure that people would know what ubuntu-qc was
<ara> LaserJock: i agree
<cgregan> Is there a standard for "distro-group" or could it be qa-ubuntu? qa-canonical?
<LaserJock> cgregan: well, I think generally they need to be *buntu-*
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/ChannelNaming
<heno> is there even a Qatar team? The ubuntu-qa ML is us
<ara>  "What's in a name? That which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet."
<LaserJock> heno: it apparently doesn't matter if the team exists or is active. It's a blocked namespace
<bdmurray> -qat? where t is for team?
<sbeattie> cgregan: I particularly think we don't want *canonical*, as we want to make sure that it's clear that the intent is for this effort to not be exclusive to canonical employees.
<LaserJock> I think #ubuntu-quality is probably our best bet
<bdmurray> That's also a great scrabble word
<cgregan> sbeattie: I know...just an example of layout not of content
<heno> Ubuntu Qatar could just be very interested in quality and happen to not live in Qatar
<LaserJock> lol
<heno> let's go with #ubuntu-quality but set the topic in #ubuntu-qa to make accidental visitors aware of that
<heno> if a Qatar team turns up and becomes active they can change the topic to something more appropriate
<LaserJock> agreed
<LaserJock> I'll set it up
<ara> ok
<heno> any other topics?
<heno> ok, let's wrap up
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:17.
<heno> speak to most of you next week!
<ara> sure!
<ara> :)
<sbeattie> thanks!
<ara> thanks, bye
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community
<calc> hi
<evand> hi
<TheMuso> Hi.
<powitsjj> hello
 * ogra waves
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community
 * ArneGoetje yawns
<cjwatson> evening all
 * TheMuso eats breakfast while he waits.
<powitsjj> is there hardware support in here?  my friends wireless isnt working
<liw> greetings and salutations
<cjwatson> powitsjj: we're just getting started with a team meeting here; #ubuntu, please, or #ubuntu-kernel if necessary
<powitsjj> thank you
<slangasek> morning
 * asac waves
<james_w> hi all
<cjwatson> bryce,doko_: here?
<bryce> heya
<cjwatson> ok, let's start
<cjwatson> first thing I wanted to raise was the upcoming sprint
<cjwatson> you'll probably all appreciate me refraining from asking if you are pumped ;-)
<TheMuso> heh
<cjwatson> mostly, I want to make sure that everything on the 8.10 roadmap is suitably unblocked and capable of making progress for feature freeze
<cjwatson> I have started on fleshing out a loose agenda, including some pairwork sessions on things that seem like they could benefit from that
<cjwatson> but I'd appreciate suggestions, as we have a whole week :)
<cjwatson> for convenience I'll paste what I've got here (also on https://wiki.canonical.com/DistroTeam/Sprints/Intrepid/London for those with suitable access)
<asac> pairwork sessions?
<cjwatson> [bryce, this doesn't need to go in the minutes, it's just for convenience]
<cjwatson>  * Release status checkpoint across all teams (general progress on specs)
<bryce> [gotcha]
<cjwatson>  * Revisit 8.04 post-mortem
<cjwatson>  * OpenJDK status call with David Herron and Dalibor Topic (Matthias, Colin, Arne?)
<cjwatson>   * Progress on TCK availability (Matthias, Colin, Mark M, Amanda)
<cjwatson>  * One-on-ones for each person transferring from desktop to platform (Colin, Scott, Michael)
<cjwatson>  * Pair-programming sessions:
<cjwatson>   * font-selector (Arne, James)
<cjwatson>   * cleanup-cruft (Lars, Michael)
<cjwatson>   * get-rid-of-python-central-and-support (Lars, Matthias)
<cjwatson>   * Ubiquity for alpha-3, if it's still broken (Evan, Colin)
<cjwatson>   * python-memory-profiling-tool (Lars, volunteers?)
<cjwatson>   * translation-statistics (Arne, Colin)
<cjwatson>   * ...
<cjwatson>  * CD sizing mini-sprint: Recommends et al (Steve, Colin, ...)
<cjwatson>  * Policy manual progress and feedback (Colin, ...)
<cjwatson> asac: ^- does that clarify?
 * liw is multipaired
<asac> i think so
<cjwatson> asac: I wondered if you wanted to work with Jonathan on the Firefox KDE integration stuff
<cjwatson> more a desktopy kind of thing mind you
<slangasek> get-rid-of-python-central-and-support scares me :(
<calc> which michael is the one in the desktop to platform bit?
<cjwatson> vogt
<calc> ok
<cjwatson> I think we only have one, unless I'm being remiss
<calc> wasn't sure :)
<cjwatson> slangasek: ...
<liw> Martin is not yet one of the canonical Canonical names
<liw> slangasek, I'm scared too, but the existence of the two scares me as well, so I'm pretty much scared
<james_w> I'll be paring with Robert a fair bit I imagine, if he's still standing after this week.
<asac> cjwatson: i have most information on kde available and a good upstream contact who offered to help in case i need more API support (scoll wheeler)
<calc> esp doing that during a debian freeze, sounds like a lot of divergence(?)
<asac> cjwatson: anyway, I think it makes sense to discuss the status with jonathan too
<asac> most work is now mozilla coding
<cjwatson> calc: we can of course prepare it but not deploy, if that turns out to make most sense
 * calc has no idea what that actually entails just suggesting now might not be the best timing ;-)
<cjwatson> we've had rather a lot of bugs, and certainly a heck of a lot of complexity, from python-{central,support}, though
<liw> calc, you sound like the people who told me that I should not rewrite the Linux kernel in Python for the Debian etch release :P
<calc> liw: lol
<slangasek> cjwatson: I think I'm concerned that replacing the helpers with a new solution is going to take a similarly long time to shake out all the bugs
<TheMuso> And create a big delta with Debian for that matter.
<slangasek> i.e., multiple release cycles
<cjwatson> the release status checkpoint is one that I hope will be the first in a series of meetings throughout the rest of the release cycle, involving team leads and interested folks
<slangasek> well, I assume that doko_ can handle bridging the delta with Debian, at least for the interpreter packages themselves
<liw> slangasek, and don't forget the delta with upstream...
<liw> it's scary and risky, but it's worth exploring, imho
<cjwatson> slangasek: ok; I have it at medium priority, so I'm happy to defer to your judgement if you'd prefer not to take the risk for intrepid
<calc> TheMuso: if it actually works the way it says in wiki, it would just involve a rebuild on the packages side, with no changes (probably won't work as smoothly in practice)
<slangasek> cjwatson: well, it scares me in general - if it's going to be done, now's the time to start it
<cjwatson> but it seems like a credible option that offers the promise of being simpler and more robust than what we have now, so I'd like to explore it in advance
<slangasek> not, say, during the next LTS
<cjwatson> right
<calc> TheMuso: er i mean for the python coded packages, not the intrepreter itself
<TheMuso> calc: Yeah I understood what you meant.
<cjwatson> "in theory, theory and practice are the same thing"
<calc> people tend to do weird things in rules files ;-)
<slangasek> "in practice, AIIGH MY EYES"
 * calc points at his 3600 line OOo rules file for example ;-)
<cjwatson> on the policy manual item, I have a git branch (hi, anyone who likes doing integration glue, I'd love a git->bzr import option that works, thanks!) of debian-policy into which I've imported most of UbuntuPackagingChanges
<liw> . o O (these kinds of large, sweeping changes would be oh so much nicer to do if everything had test suites with good coverage)
<cjwatson> I'd like to spend some time at the sprint with anyone who's interested in hashing out more standards text
<liw> cjwatson, you mean "Ubuntu Policy"?
<cjwatson> correct
<cjwatson> ok, enough about the sprint, we'll have plenty of that next week; /msg or mail me any extra items you think of and I'll work them in
<cjwatson> congratulations to the 8.04.1 team on delivering on-time, though I gather it was a bit of a crunch towards the end
<cjwatson> has anyone had any interesting feedback on .1 that they'd like to share?
<james_w> indeed, congratulations.
<cjwatson> we will get a chance to remedy some things in six months' time
<TheMuso> You can't garentee that users will help you work through bugs and get them fixed. :)
<bryce> TheMuso: fussy users :-)
<cjwatson> TheMuso: any more news on that bug? we put it in the release notes in the hope of scaring up more attention
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Yeah I saw that, and while one person has reported back with no issues, thats nothing to go on to mov towards fixing it.
<evand> Wubi once again bit us right at the end.
<cjwatson> we need to lower that load for 8.10 somehow
<cjwatson> evand: perhaps you should sit with the QA team and figure out how to get this more effectively tested
 * TheMuso can step up and do more wubi testing. I would have if I hadn't had other things to worry about.
<evand> cjwatson: will do
<calc> it seems that pulseaudio still has the hanging issue (caused by suspend/resume socket disappearing?)
<liw> I've seen people suggest on various forums (not just ubuntu-devel-discuss) that we should do more thorough testing of the ISOs pre-release; it took quite a bit of time this time again, didn't it? longer/more test scenarios is going to make that slower, unless we find a lot of new testers
<calc> my system hung yesterday
<calc> well new apps starting hung
<TheMuso> calc: I think that is to do with the actual hardware driver, but since I don't have that problem, I can't really look any further.
<calc> oh ok
<cjwatson> liw: yes, the eternal dilemma
<stgraber> liw: same issue as usual, only < 10 testers are doing all the tests. So that's not a lot of different hardware and because of the short amount of time we have we can't try all weird setup ...
<cjwatson> more thorough testing takes longer
<cjwatson> TheMuso: perhaps you can poke at calc's system next week
<liw> while it's not really platform's job to find them, it'd be cool if someone came up with ideas for attracting more people to test stuff
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Thats certainly an option, however I am not yet sure what to look for, but I'll give it a shot.
<calc> TheMuso: it doesn't happen really often but it did several times at UDS and again yesterday
<cjwatson> liw: free beer and MOTASes
<slangasek> masters of the... oh
<TheMuso> calc: The plot thickens.
<slangasek> :-)
<liw> cjwatson, "Find a new bug in our ISO, and we'll send you a keg." -- that'd certainly attract a lot of people
<cjwatson> liw: though seriously ... yes. um, maybe one answer would be for the development team to more actively prioritise bugs from well-known testers
<cjwatson> which we sort of do anyway when they're serious, but not so much for the minor annoyances
<cjwatson> the Donald Knuth approach works for less buggy software ...
<liw> would it help to move the ISO testing activites from #ubuntu-testing to #ubuntu-devel to give them more exposure?
<bryce> I'd doubt it
 * stgraber doesn't think so
<cjwatson> it's possible; I think testers should still have their own forum where they can feel like they can witter in peace, but they should be welcome on #ubuntu-devel
<bryce> I suspect reducing the barrier to entry would be the key thing
<cjwatson> perhaps questions about specific problems should be encouraged to move from #ubuntu-testing to #ubuntu-devel if they can't easily be answered on the former. Does this already happen?
<stgraber> #ubuntu-devel is usually busy enough near release time. -testing is better for discussing testing bugs (and VM bugs)
<liw> (maybe we should discuss this at the sprint / mailing list, we only have an hour now)
<cjwatson> Fixing the CD download problem is implicitly on the schedule, under the 8.04 post-mortem item
<liw> cjwatson, that's obviously in dire need of fixing, yes
<bryce> I suspect a lot of would-be testers get weeded out at the "download and burn an ISO" stage.  I wonder if there could be improvements made at that layer
<liw> having to wait for a couple of hours for ISOs to update over rsync before one can do anything is counter-produtive
<cjwatson> I'll mail a chunk of this meeting log to Henrik and see if he wants to do something next week
<TheMuso> liw: jigdo/local mirror/local cdimage setup FTW. :p
<cjwatson> last thing I have is alpha-2
<slangasek> bryce: uh... shipit for beta releases? :)
<stgraber> TheMuso: doesn't work with daily-live :)
<bryce> e.g. if it were feasible to postal mail cd's/dvd's to testers...
<bryce> slangasek: honestly I think it'd help!  ;-)
<TheMuso> stgraber: Not if you also build the livefs locally. :)
<bryce> but postal delay would probably make it infeasible
<cjwatson> bryce: (I'm happy to prioritise a small group somehow, be it that way (though I think it'd be too slow) or by some kind of privileged machine access)
<calc> sometimes disk get regenerated multiple times in the same day
 * cjwatson coughs and looks at his shell on antimony busy building live CDs
<TheMuso> But yes, being able to sync the images at a deacent speed would be preferable.
<slangasek> yes; one option for improving our ability to test ISOs in advance of release is to have bug-free ISOs a full week before the release
<stgraber> +1 on improving cdimage.u.c speed :)
<bryce> for myself, I had intended to help with testing dvd's last go around, but download problems really hamstrung me
<calc> the secret is download a few days early, then just rsync the minor differences
<calc> the bandwidth is much better a few days before the announcements
<bryce> mm, didn't know that trick
<cjwatson> while this isn't helpful generally, if any Canonical folks want to get a leg-up on big downloads, the Millbank office has excellent bandwidth to the DC
<cjwatson> slurp what you can and take it home
<slangasek> right, so, alpha-2 - we have some rather infeasibly sized liveCDs right now, on both ubuntu and kubuntu; they're unlikely to get right-sized in time for alpha-2, so we should just expect to do DVD or VM testing for this round
<slangasek> so that we start to get some feedback on the software on them, ignoring for the moment that the media is the wrong size
<cjwatson> the build I'm doing should fix the fact that they fail to boot
<slangasek> also a plus
<slangasek> :)
<cjwatson> (which was due to an option deep within busybox changing, thereby switching us over to klibc mount, thereby making mount syntax more restrictive, thereby breaking casper)
<evand> there was the casper issue, but working around that I was unable to get into GNOME.  cjwatson, is this latter bug what you speak of?
<liw> I haven't yet been able to upgrade any of my VMs to intrepid, they fail to boot (crash in initramfs, typically) -- I gather other people are having better luck?
<evand> ah, no it wasn't.
<cjwatson> evand: it made it through to GNOME without problems for me
<bryce> I've been able to upgrade to intrepid
<evand> odd.
 * evand kicks vmware
<cjwatson> liw: I'm sure several people would be happy to help debug crashes in initramfs
<bryce> there's an X boot issue I know of where -vesa fails to work (other drivers seem ok)
<liw> bryce, real hw or virtual?
<cjwatson> myself included
<bryce> liw, real
<slangasek> liw: alpha-1 boots for me in vmware
 * ogra upgraded kernel and initramfs-tools today to test the compcache changes ... apart from usplash being evil and missing firmware all is fine 
<liw> cjwatson, sure, I just have't had the energy to start on this yet
<slangasek> I think the kvm issue was one soren was working on
<TheMuso> I installed alpha 1 on a box, and its up to date as of yesterday and boots fine.
<cjwatson> liw: though kvm is known to have trouble booting intrepid guests
<bryce> liw: due to X, I pretty much prefer doing all testing on real hardware
<TheMuso> bryce: Sam here, but for being able to get sound. I'm pondering getting vmware so I can also have sound from the VM, but kvm is alright for now.
<TheMuso> s/sam/same/
<liw> ok, I'm using kvm, so that's probably it, then; I'll ask #ubuntu-virt for advice later
<TheMuso> Kvm itself can do sound, but libvirt doesn't yet support it.
<cjwatson> I have nothing else; any other business?
<bryce> btw, for those using kvm, there were some hacks I put into dexconf for Hardy that might not be necessary anymore.  I *think* it may be possible to run X on kvm with no xorg.conf; I'd like to hear feedback one way or the other.
<bryce> cjwatson: regarding last weeks action items - the two assigned to me have been done
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Whats the story with us looking over the partner archive? We talked about it a few weeks back...
<cjwatson> I'm not fussed about an explicit team meeting next week, though if people want one we can
<cjwatson> TheMuso: oh yes, sorry, I'll send mail about that - meant to squeeze it in before this meeting
<cjwatson> TheMuso: (and for the record it was last week ...)
<bryce> cjwatson: I followed up on the libxcb issue, and think there's nothing to be done for now, but once upstream has a new libxcb package, we may want to revisit.
<TheMuso> Ah yes it was too.
<bryce> cjwatson: I am doubtful the new libxcb is going to be SRU-able, but we can see...
<cjwatson> bryce: ok, thank you
<bryce> cjwatson: second item - I mentioned this already on the mailing list, but I set up a milestone report
<cjwatson> I saw your mail to -devel, thanks
<cjwatson> and the milestone report is great, I had a look after seeing your report
<cjwatson> how up-to-date is it?
<bryce> http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Milestones/milestones_current.html
<bryce> I set up a cron to update it every 6 hours
<bryce> although I think it may take a day or two to get the cronjob working properly,
<cjwatson> I think it will be my sole way to view the milestone list from now on
<bryce> cool, let me know if there are improvements that would make it more useful (slangasek - you too)
<bryce> when the new Launchpad JSON api's are available, I can probably recode things so it will work faster, and I can make the cron update more frequently
<bryce> cjwatson: anyway, nothing else from me
<cjwatson> right, I'm happy to call it a day here, then
<bryce> thanks
<liw> thanks, and good night
<asac> thanks all
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<cjwatson> safe travels, everyone, and see you in London (with the exception of Oliver who'll be sorely missed but we'll see him by videoconference or whatever!)
<TheMuso> Thanks, and see you all in London!
<evand> thanks
<slangasek> thanks, 'night :)
<calc> bye
<james_w> thanks all
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-10
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council
<Alibb> @schedule
<ubottu> Alibb: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | 10 Jul 13:00: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00: Community Council
<pitti> hi
<Alibb> hi pitti :)
<pitti> tedg: good morning
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council
<tedg> Morning pitti
<tedg> Is today going to be "Ted and the Germans" :)
<Alibb> @now
<ubottu> Alibb: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 10 2008, 13:00:49 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
<pitti> tedg: s/s$// :)
<pitti> tedg: so far it's just the two of us
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-07-10
<pitti> for the record, the activity reports and the (non)agenda
<tedg> Oh, I figured kwwii would make it too.
<pitti> I pung him
<pitti> nothing from kwwii and mpt
<mpt> hi hi
<kwwii> hi
<pitti> welcome, mpt and kwwii
<pitti> no agenda from the activity reports, and nothing particular from me either, with just the four of us
<pitti> so, anything you'd like to alk about?
<james_w> pitti: I have a small follow up on the users-admin tool if you are interested
<pitti> james_w: oh, absolutely!
<pitti> james_w: you pointed me towards this new tool which is in planning
<pitti> but that didn't look intrepid-able yet?
<james_w> I sent a mail to the distros list, and that new tool looks really good
<mpt> A new tool in planning?
<james_w> I imagine it won't be intrepid, perhaps intrepid+1, I could follow up if you like
 * mpt has longed to redesign this
<pitti> james_w: hm, I must have missed it
<james_w> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-May/msg00006.html
<pitti> (the mail, not your IRC ping)
<james_w> the only other suggestion was yast
<kwwii> I refuse to work on yast again
<kwwii> :-)
<pitti> well, we want to get rid of super-big tools in favor of a small and sharp one, so yast seems a bit of a step into the wrong direction IMHO
<james_w> apparently someone is working on porting it to Debian
<pitti> james_w: I think in that case we can survive with users-admin just a little longer
<james_w> yeah, the new one seems like it might be a great fit, and presumably will have all the right things like policykit etc.
<pitti> in intrepid we're going to drop almost all of the 'permisison' groups, so we can even make users-admin a little more slick
<james_w> pitti: yeah, I think seb would like to get rid of it, but there doesn't seem to be anything better at this time
<pitti> james_w: at least that settles the question whether or not to put heavy work into s-c-users
<pitti> if it's essentially declared dead, there's no point for us to port it to PK
<mpt> hmm, some big UI improvements in that new design, but also some awkwardness
<pitti> it would probably not be too much work to just use s-c-u with gksu, though
<pitti> mpt: it's still in the planning stage, so now would actually be a great time to change the layout
<mpt> indeed
<pitti> mpt: if you are interested in that, do you feel like following up to that annoucements with your thoughts?
<pitti> or are you 100% busy with LP?
<mpt> Well I'm not subscribed to fedora-desktop-list, ;-) but I'll certainly e-mail the authors
<pitti> right, that's what I meant
<pitti> mpt: thanks
<pitti> so, unless anyone else has something, I'd just say "see you next week"
 * tedg has nothing else to say.
<james_w> "see you next week"
<pitti> then, thanks to everyone, and safe travels!
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
<persia> OK.  We forgot to reserve the room, but it's now time for the Ubuntu Java team meeting.
 * soren runs away
 * robilad waves and claims the hour for the #ubuntu-java meeting, along with persia
<persia> OK.  The agenda is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<ogra> did we reserve for mobile ?
<ogra> next hour ?
<persia> ogra: Yes.  See /topic
<ogra> perfect ...
<ogra> sorry for being blind :)
<persia> Last week we talked about some goals for intrepid, and those of us with goals committed to putting them up in the Roadmap.
<persia> The results of this are available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/RoadMap
<persia> Err.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadnap
<persia> Err.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadmap (I can spell, really!)
<persia> Right now, we don't have any assignments, or comments.
<persia> First item: " Evaluate difficulties faced when utilizing applications that depend and/or are built on Java."  Who can speak to that?
<persia> OK.  Anyone want to keep it on the roadmap?  Are we going to do it?
<robilad> it's not quite clear to me what it means in Ã¼practice
<robilad> packaging diffculties? developer difficulties? end user difficulties?
<persia> Right.  Shall we remove it from the roadmap then?
<robilad> sounds fair to me, it can go back once it's more finegrained
<persia> Anyone else?
<persia> OK.  Dropping that then.
<persia> Next item: OpenJDK MIR: who is doing that?
<persia> Does it need packaging work first?
<dholbach> doko: are you around?
<persia> doko: Was that you?
<doko> here!
<mareks> what is 'MIR'?
<dholbach> mareks: Main Inclusion Report
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<robilad> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-6/+bug/246349 for the corresponding bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246349 in openjdk-6 "MIR for openjdk-6" [Undecided,New]
<persia> doko: May I put your name against that item on the roadmap?  Do you need any help with any packaging fixes for that?
<doko> persia: no, that's mostly done. if you do have free resources, maybe look at maven2? I'm not sure who wanted to do that
<persia> doko: Koon mentioned it for the last meeting, but didn't add it to the roadmap.
<robilad> not here today, afaict
<dholbach> Koon said he couldn't make it today, but was interested what would get decided about it
<robilad> did he find time to check out the fedora patchset?
<persia> Let's skip maven for this week: if someone starts work on it, we can add it to the roadmap next week.
<dholbach> robilad: no, I don't think he did
<robilad> ok, thanks, then I agree with moving on, and putting it on the agenda for next week
<persia> Next item is "Integration of Java into server stack".  Who is the driver for this?
<persia> OK.  Anyone want to be the driver for it?
<robilad> i'd be happy to, but it may require some maven support if we want to build geronimo/glassfish from source
<persia> Great.  Do you want to talk about it a bit, or work on breaking it down into chunks over the next week, and maybe describe some smaller targets for people to help with next week?
<dholbach> seems like we need a maven workforce :))
<robilad> i'd be happy to talk about the GF side of things next week
<persia> OK.  I'll put your name on it for now, and encourage you to break it down a bit in the roadmap.
<robilad> thanks
<persia> Next item: "Identify possible opportunities to optimise the Java stack".  Who wants this one?
<dholbach> I think cody-somerville added it
<dholbach> it wasn't really discussed in the last meeting
<persia> Hmm.  Not here this week.  Anyone else want it?
<persia> Opinions on dropping it vs. deferring to next week?
<persia> Right.  Let's leave it there, as it's at least well described, and see if Cody comes back next week.
<persia> Next item: "Transition Java packages from multiverse to universe where possible".
<persia> I raised this, but won't likely do a very good job of getting it done for intrepid.  Anyone willing to take over tracking it?
<robilad> i think that's an item that would profit from close collaboration with debian
<persia> Very much so: http://wiki.debian.org/Java/MoveToMain tracks the Debian progress.
<robilad> so I'd like to discuss it with man-di when he has time to join us
<persia> When things move to Main in Debian, someone needs to file a bug in Ubuntu to ask the archive-admins to promote the package to universe.
<persia> robilad: While I'm certain man-di could do it, I'd think this sort of tracking Debian might be an easy way for someone new to get involved.
<robilad> that's a very good point
<persia> Anyone interested?  If not, I'll take it, but would be happy to hand it to anyone who wants to take over.
<persia> Next item: "Improved Java environment on PowerPC": who has a power PC and wants to coordinate the porting efforts?  I think there were a couple people interested last week.
<persia> OK.  Opinions on keeping it on the roadmap or dropping it?
<robilad> is it a release arch for interpid?
<doko> no
<persia> Well, it's in ports.
<doko> so it's not a release arch
 * persia grumbles about definition of terms, and quibbles a bit before subsiding
<robilad> it seems that it would take a volunteer from the ubuntu powerpc community to keep it on map
<persia> Right, and we don't have one this week.  If someone objects to removing it in the minutes, they can take charge of it.
<persia> OK.  That was the Roadmap review: we'll do it again next week.
<persia> Back to the new items on the agenda:
<persia> "Eclipse"
<persia> xhaker seems to be absent, so we'll defer this again.
<persia> Next item: "Moving meetings to 14h".  robilad: all yours.
<robilad> ok, i spoke with man-di what time would work for him
<robilad> and he suggested starting one or preferrably two hours earlier,
<robilad> i.e. 13 or 14h UTC.
<robilad> would that still work for everyone interested?
<persia> I'm good for either of those times.
 * robilad pokes persia, doko, dholbach, mareks
<robilad> thanks, persia
<robilad> others?
 * persia notes that others not just poked who would find those times inconvenient ought speak up quick.
<robilad> ah, the advantages of not announcing a meeting on fridge ... ;)
<dholbach> yeah, I'm good too
<robilad> no volunteers, but also no trouble rescheduling ;)
<robilad> thanks, dholbach
<persia> OK.  From now, we'll take meetings at 14h.
<persia> That completes our agenda.  Any volunteers to write up the minutes?
 * robilad would be happy to, where should the write up go to?
 * doko is leaving, back late in the evening
<persia> robilad: I'd think we probably want to put it on the wiki, and maybe send an email.
<persia> I'd be happy to discuss particulars with you in #ubuntu-java after the meeting.  Thanks for volunteering.
<robilad> ok. next meeting - thu 17th, 14h UTC.
<persia> Thanks everyone.  See you next week!
<dholbach> thanks guys
<robilad> thanks all, and bye
<doko> ohh, I won't make it next week for the meeting
<persia> doko: OK.  If there's a change in status on OpenJDK can you let us know in #ubuntu-java, and someone else can bring it to the meeting?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
 * ogra waves
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> OK silly of me
<ogra> old habits die hard :)
<davidm> Good morning everyone.
<davidm> We have no prior business from last week.
<davidm>  I do have a bit of news, I have located the mootbot meeting logs for the last two weeks so I'll post them today.
<davidm> OK that is better.
<davidm> Someone please keep an eye on #ubuntu-mobile so that anyone confused (like I was ) gets directed here, thanks.
<GrueMaster> do you need to restart mootbot?
<lool> So I guess we can move to this week's items?
<lool> GrueMaster: he did
<davidm> Already did
<davidm> INdeed
<lool> And additionally this chan is logged 100% of the time I think
<persia> It is.  irclogs.ubuntu.com
<GrueMaster> just checking.
<davidm> [topic] Wiki cleanup: feedback and ideas (EmmetHikory)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Wiki cleanup: feedback and ideas (EmmetHikory)
<lool> persia: Thanks for a lot for picking up this task!
<persia> OK.  Last week, I send out https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2008-July/001935.html
<lool> persia: Did you check whether dholbach had any useful bits on this task?
<persia> Everyone who replied to the mail was in agreement.  Anyone else have suggestions?
<lool> I think he cleaned up the dev pages of the Ubuntu wiki some months ago
<davidm> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2008-July/001935.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2008-July/001935.html
<persia> lool: Yes.  I've gotten a lot of input from him on standard team structures, etc.
<lool> Great
<persia> That was part of why I suggested separating the team from the flavour on the wiki.
<lool> I fully agree
<lool> And I would add that any additional orthogonals splits that you can come up with will probably help reuse information
<persia> OK.  In the absence of either objections or other ideas, I'll start implementing the changes I described next week.  Anyone who wants to get a head start is welcome to dive in.
<davidm> persia, sounds good to me :-)
<davidm> OK if there is no more on this topic?
<davidm> There are no additional items on the agenda.
<davidm> [topic] Agenda empty!!!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda empty!!!
<ogra> :)
<cgregan> davidm: devices?
<davidm> cgregan, ??
<cgregan> I talked to pat
<davidm> Ah,
<cgregan> Intel will need to provide
 * lool wonders whether we have not much to discuss on these IRC meetings because we have a call some hours before the meeting
<davidm> Good enough, thanks, I'll get back to them.
<davidm> lool, from the mobile team, perhaps but we might have topics from the community?
<lool> davidm: But if we don't discuss all our topics in the public, we wont get much community love
<ogra> yeah
<lool> It's not that we're hiding them, but because we cover them privately already...
<lool> I had a similar problem with the one to ones
<cgregan> should we move call to Friday morning?
<ogra> we should probably switch order ... but that might get tricky if this meeting here is immovable
<davidm> We can discuss here if you like, then the team meeting can become short again which I like :-)
<lool> I had nothing to discuss with people because it was too close ot the weekly phone call
<lool> davidm: hehe
<lool> I think either flipping order of phone call and irc meeting or moving them further apart in the week could help
<lool> At least it helped me have more interesting phone calls with people
<davidm> I like the phone call because it gives me a few minutes to "hear" everyone and I get a clew if someone is unhappy or stressed that I can't get here.  I'm quite happy to have meeting here.
<lool> cgregan: I think moving call Friday morning would work; it's Friday evening for StevenK though
<cgregan> make it a weekly recap to discuss what comes up from community here, and status of our work for the week
<davidm> If StevenK and persia don't mind I don't
<lool> davidm: I think having a phone call is fine, it's very effective, but it deprives this IRC meeting from a lot of content
<cgregan> Same for persia
<lool> cgregan: Indeed
<lool> persia: Sorry :)
 * persia has a regular meeting every sixth week at 12:00 UTC on Fridays.
<davidm> [topic] telephone meeting and it's impact on IRC public meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  telephone meeting and it's impact on IRC public meeting
<lool> davidm: Do you have any requirement on the contents of your reports?
<lool> davidm: I mean the weekly reports you'll be aggregating frmo our ARs?
<cgregan> The only other option is to move it to their morning.....but that makes it very late for you. Although in a few weeks you will be up changing diapers anyway! :-)
<davidm> lool, Nope
<lool> cgregan: haha
<lool> I'm fine moving to any other day
<davidm> I do need the activity reports (that I still don't have) hint hint.....
<lool> I think we should report progress in the IRC meetings and discuss things here like we did on the phone today
<davidm> OK, that can work.
<lool> Cool
<lool> persia: every sixth week doesn't sound too grave
<lool> davidm: Shall we try this new meeting time where we might miss persia once every 6 weeks?
<lool> davidm: Perhaps check with StevenK?
<persia> lool: Nope, but it's MOTU Meeting, which I'm loathe to miss (and you ought be attending :p )
<lool> Anyway, you people know my computer-times; I'm happy with anything which happens after this IRC meeting in the week or any other day
<lool> Just not some hours before the IRC meeting ;)
<davidm> Yes, lets talk about it next week in Lexington
<ogra> ++
<lool> Cool
<davidm> OK
<davidm> Anything else?
<lool> Apart of that I wanted to propose that we announce presence at upcoming events
<lool> ogra and myself will try to attend the Debian Extremadura week on Emdebian
<lool> And I'll try to go to the maemo Summit in Berlin
<lool> Should I announce presence on our mailing-list?
<davidm> I'll be at OLS week after next in Ottawa Canada
<davidm> Sure, why not?
<lool> Great
<ogra> fine with me
<lool> Will do
<lool> Do we have a wiki page with slides of previous presentations?
<davidm> persia, thoughts?
<persia> I'm all in favour of announcing presence on mailing lists :)
<lool> I'd love to reuse some material if I have to present UM&E
<davidm> I am not aware of any.  Good idea however
<davidm> There are some internal but out of date.
<lool> Ok; then I think I'll try to collect some in a wiki page
<davidm> I can post mine.
<lool> I'll need to consult with persia on appropriate location of these  :-P
<persia> lool: w.u.c/UbuntuMobile/Presentations/$(NAME)
<lool> persia: Name of the event I guess?
<davidm> Do we just want w.u.c/UbuntuMobile/Presentations and have attachments there?
<lool> persia: Why UbuntuMobile and not just Mobile BTW?
<persia> Or name of the presentation if you're building a static presentation for multiple fora
<davidm> Seems perhaps (to me) silly to have a page for an event that has a single attachment?
<lool> I was thinking we would collect a list of oo presentations or pdfs or whatever and list at which events these were presented by whom at which date
<persia> Mostly because the name is most similar to UbuntuStudio from the other flavours, and that is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
<lool> davidm: I find this a bit heavy too
<lool> persia: But then everything on wuc is Ubuntu; sounds weird to repeat that part? :)
<lool> DRY
<persia> davidm: If we're doing attachments, that makes more sense.
<persia> lool: I'm just trying to follow the prevailing conventions.
<lool> persia: Desktop is using /DesktopTeam
<davidm> persia,  I think mostly that is what we are likely to have.
<lool> There's also /PlatformTeam
<persia> I'm happy with /MobileTeam, but think that's a different namespace than /UbuntuMobile/
<persia> davidm: You've convinced me.
<lool> persia: Hmm let's do some research on existing conventions after the meeting then
<davidm> Would it make sense to have a ???Mobile???/Presentations page and if there is more then just attachments put a page under it, if not just add attachment?
<persia> That works even better: best of both models.
<ogra> yeah
<lool> Excellent
<davidm> :-P I guess a pointed headed boss can do something correct once in a while ;-P
<ian_brasil> there is also this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/PresentationArea
<ogra> i think for massive attachment handling we should take a look at the artwork team pages probably
<ogra> they collect theme work there
<lool> ian_brasil: What's the criteria used to group these presentations there?
<ogra> if we even get that many presentations together to acually worry :)
<ian_brasil> presentations about ubuntu mobile and upstream
<davidm> True, it's not like we are going to be on the road full time doing presentations, but we will do some.
<ian_brasil> i.e. a catch all
<lool> ian_brasil: I would think we need to focus on UM&E presentations; probably as done by people working on UM&E and presenting the goals and their work
<lool> ian_brasil: it looks like you have some hildon presentations in there
<ian_brasil> right
<lool> I think these are helpful to developers, or can be linked to from documentation, but do they really document UM&E or help reusing material for a new presentation?  Perhaps less so
<lool> ian_brasil: But thanks, definitely an useful collection to point technical people at
<lool> Well all of this is technical anyway :)
<lool> Ok; thanks everybody for discussing presentation materials
<lool> I don't have anything more on the topic
<davidm> OK, good enough,
<lool> (Anyone has additional topics?)
 * ogra not atm
<davidm> otherwise meeting close going once.......................................................................................................................
 * GrueMaster remains silent.  :-X
<davidm> meeting close going twice ................................................
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:36.
 * lool thanks davidm for taking care of the meeting and the related mootbot/wiki administrativa!
<davidm> Thanks everyone.
<ogra> thanks
<davidm> Now finding mootbot logs will be harder!!!!
<davidm> There are a lot of meetings in this room.....
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/
<ogra> the ScribesTeam might be of help
<ogra> davidm, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/SubmitMeeting sepcifically
<ogra> *specifically even
<persia> Oooh!  That's a nifty link.  On the other hand, I'm not sure most of my meetings are that disciplined...
<ogra> well, we have the agenda page at least
<ogra> The summary and log will be placed on the agenda you gave a link for. An email will be sent when log and summary have been posted to the page.
<ogra> is what the page says
<ogra> so if you just include the scribes team in the weekly mail announce CC list that should work i guess
<ogra> (after asking them indeed)
<persia> Probably, although it also requires mootbot wrangling and people staying on-topic.
<ogra> which we have anyway in this meeting
<davidm> the scribes have had fun with mootbot hosting so I've been pulling the logs when they show up and hosting them on my people.c.c page
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-11
<slangasek> sigh, is anyone seeing this problem (under VMware for me) that booting the liveCD gets you a blank screen (background-colored)?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
<persia> OK.  Welcome to the MOTU Meeting.  Who's here?
<txwikinger> hi persia
 * \sh tries to attend, but could disappear because of real life work
<RainCT> Hi
<soren> o/
<geser> o/
 * persia wonders if any of the other 123 people are likely to respond, as this is a small group so far
<snbrown> HI
<\sh> as cody has one item on the agenda...he should be there ;)
<persia> Right then.  Administrative details: who is willing to do minutes?
<geser> persia: isn't the average attendee rate around 5-7, so we're complete :)
 * persia finds that cody_sommerville doesn't autocomplete
<persia> geser: Yeah, well.
<emgent> o/
<persia> emgent: You're newest: up for minutes?
<emgent> yes
<persia> Excellent.
<cody-somerville> Hello.
<persia> Next administrative detail: who is chairing the meeting?
 * cody-somerville volunteers on the condition that no one else has volunteered.
<persia> cody-somerville: You've an item, so you can't.
<persia> Anyone else?
<cody-somerville> Oh right right
<persia> Right then.  I'll do it.
<persia> So, welcome to the MOTU Meeting for 11th July 2008.
<persia> As a reminder, we're using the new proposed decision process, so we won't take any decisions here: just discuss and assign someone to judge consensus.
<persia> The agenda is available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<warp10> Hi all
<persia> First up: cody-somerville with MOTU Leadership teams
<cody-somerville> Hi Everyone
<TheMuso> Wow. I am actually able to make a meeting.
<cody-somerville> As I'm sure you've seen, there has been discussion on the mailing list recently regarding membership policy of MOTU leadership teams.
<cody-somerville> Primarily, the hot topic has been discussing the electoral system that we'll employ to produce the community legitimized bodies for the teams respectively.
<cody-somerville> I would have liked to write up a summary of the discussion thus far but unfortunately I think the summary would only end up being larger than all the e-mails thus far in sum (which if you've been reading, you'll know would be pretty big). ;]
<cody-somerville> However, unofficially, I think it is fair to say that there are really three systems that seem to be "on the table" - Schulze method proposed by ScottK, Single Transferable Vote (or a variant of) by myself, and the unspoken, might have a name, system we've used in the past.
<persia> In the past we've had poor experience with voting.  Most of our teams are organised by the people-who-volunteer-less-people-to-whom-others-object method.
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> I'm going to have to assume that everyone has had a chance to doing their reading because unfortunately we don't have time to describe the proposed methods again.
<persia> cody-somerville: So, what are you proposing for discussion?  What is the question before us today?
<cody-somerville> persia, I think we should use this opportunity to answer any questions and to see if it possible for us to reach consensus as things seemed stalled on the ml.
<cody-somerville> I think we've done a lot of discussing and I'd like to see how we can move onto the decision making phase.
<persia> cody-somerville: Right.  A decision on which question?
<cody-somerville> persia, On which electoral system will be employed from now
<persia> OK.  Is the question of "Do we want to use an electoral system" already resolved?
<cody-somerville> What is the alternative?
<persia> Volunteers and Appointments are two.  There may be more.
 * cody-somerville nods.
<persia> OK.  Due to lack of response, let's look at the question as stated:
<persia> How do people feel about each of the presented electoral systems?
<cody-somerville> persia, How would you label the system we currently use?
<\sh> IMHO I would like to see appointments to a team (e.g. sru) from members which are already in the team, because old and new members have to work together alltogether...
<persia> cody-somerville: Currently we seem to use a different system for each election/appointment/team, etc.  I'm not sure there is a "current system".
<\sh> for the MC we should vote for the (self-) proposed members
<cody-somerville> \sh, I'm afraid I disagree with that.
<\sh> cody-somerville: reason? :)
<geser> \sh: I fear that if a team appoints new members, it might create a feeling of a cabal
<cody-somerville> MOTU-SRU and MOTU-Release are bodies of authorities within MOTU that are legitimized by the collective agreement of MOTU at large. If those teams stopped representing MOTU, as in the composition of the respective teams, I don't see how those bodies would be anymore legitimate.
 * RainCT agrees with cody-somerville 
<\sh> ok, so you mean, whenever one member of one of these teams steps down, we need to re-elect new members again? which means, we need to elect the whole team?
<cody-somerville> No.
<cody-somerville> The electoral system we use could provide that fallback
<geser> \sh: I'd say only "elect" the replacements
<cody-somerville> The runner ups could always be appointed
<cody-somerville> And with my proposed rolling setup, there would *always* be folks serving in the teams.
<persia> I'm not happy about the idea of a runner-up automatically being appointed if someone steps down: that's 1) too easy to game, and 2) fails to map well to changing circumstances.
<cody-somerville> ie. at the end of each cycle, only a subset is up for re-election.
<\sh> well, regarding democratic ways: if one member steps down, not the whole team needs to step down, most likely the team members are appointing an replacement during the lifetime of the team, whereas at the end of a timeperiod, the whole team will be elected totally new.
<cody-somerville> \sh, I don't agree with that either ;)
<cody-somerville> I think the teams should be rolling
<cody-somerville> ie. First time we elect x number of folks, next time we elect *another* x number of folks. Now we're "rolling". The third iteration would only have the first set of folks who were elected up for re-election.
<TheMuso> cody-somerville: I agree.
<persia> I like rolling, although for the one team for which we theoretically enforce rolling (MC), we've not done so much rolling, and had several special elections.
<persia> (I'm really not sure when my "term" is supposed to end, which isn't likely ideal)
<cody-somerville> \sh, benefits of this would be: no disruption of service, there will always be an experienced folks on the team, and much more as described in my e-amil.
 * cody-somerville has to run but will be back in 15-20 minutes.
<\sh> cody-somerville: depends on the purpose of the team
<\sh> MC need to roll every term
<persia> I'm not sure all the teams need experienced people.  SRU certainly does, but MC likely benefits from new people more than experienced people.
<geser> persia: around 2010-01-31 you get your t-shirt "I survived MC"  (if we have them till then) :)
<\sh> SRU will be setup completly new from release to release (or two releases...that's another matter)
<persia> geser: That's when my team membership expires, but as officially there are rolling elections in Aprils, that seems a poor match to term.
<\sh> and SRU/Release  is vital, while MC just can wait a bit for new MC members
<persia> \sh: How do you feel about SRU continuing to track a release until EOL vs. SRU being for all releases and changing every cycle (or two cycles or whatever).
<geser> persia: wasn't the idea that a half of the first MC gets re-elected after a year so get we get a rolling team?
<\sh> persia: for the rolling reason, I do like the second method...(two cycles are ok)
<persia> geser: That was the idea.  We've not actually done that.
<geser> persia: I guess this is because some members left before we could start it
<\sh> persia: but this wouldn't handle the "replacement case"
<persia> Well, the first 1-year people did that.  After that it got fuzzy.
<persia> \sh: That's the other question: should a replacement serve remainder-of-term, or for the period of a term?
<\sh> persia: example: SRU will serve 1 year (two cycles) , and one member steps down in month 3... the replacement will only be there for 9 months ...after that: new election
<\sh> persia: but the replacement needs to be there in time, not with a whole bunch of appointing for voting, voting from MOTU etc. this stops the workflow...therefore I do like to see appointments of the rest of the serving members
<persia> \sh so remainder-of-term.  That makes sense.
<geser> what about if a members steps down after 10 (of 12) months? re-elect someone just for 2 months? wait till the next election period?
<persia> geser: 2 months.  If they are good, they are in a strong position for the next selection cycle.
<\sh> geser: the same..if there is a 2 out of  3 rule, it needs a full team
<\sh> geser: we have this system in our "Bundestag" :)
 * persia shudders at the comparison of MOTU SRU to the Bundestag
 * \sh too..
<\sh> but I don't know any other example right now
<persia> Without stating any position as to initial selection, we could use MOTU Meeting to appoint replacements: it takes a couple weeks, but at least most of the decisions taken by MOTU Meeting have been honored.
<TheMuso> Sorry folks, gotta run. Got a flight tomorrow, and sleep is parramount. :)
<geser> \sh: when a member leaves a team, isn't there already a disruption of the workflow? Usually members disappear over time and not from one day to the next
<\sh> geser: tbh, there is a lot of work for SRU and RELEASE...but it can be, that one member has to do other, more important things in his work life or private life, then he/she could step down with a from one day to another..it happend before, and it will happen in the future
<\sh> now, when there is somehow a 2 out of 3 rule i.e. for SRU (which isn't) then the team can't work anymore, without a replacement/new elected member
<\sh> therefore the team is stucked into some black hole. and waiting for a decision of motu-meeting or motu members could stop the workflow for important tasks in general.
<persia> OK.  We're getting to the end of the hour.
<persia> So, the big choice now is whether we have enough information to build consensus on the mailing list in the next two weeks, or we should defer this until a future meeting, and discuss on IRC and the ML in the meantime.
<persia> Thoughts on that?
<\sh> regarding the importance of this meeting, we are only a few people here...so it could be that the topic is not important for others, or the time was wrong..
<\sh> (i hope it was the latter)
<\sh> therefore I would like to have some more opinions on IRC + ML
<\sh> to have more people involved...
<persia> soren: geser: txwikinger;, snbrown; RainCT: warp10: ?
<geser> \sh: first the team should be bigger as members might be busy for some weeks (or on vacation) without needing to step down immediately to keep the team working
<\sh> geser: for sure...
<persia> geser: Yes, but do you feel we're ready for consensus, or do we need more discussion first?
<\sh> geser: vacations are not covered by "important RL things" ;)
<\sh> persia: I would like to propose a further discussion on ML + IRC (when people are interested)
 * sistpoty|work just finished with reading backlog
<persia> \sh: You did.  I'm looking for a second :)
<persia> sistpoty|work: Excellent: what's your position re: readiness for consensus?
<sistpoty|work> I'd actually like very much if s.o. would wrap up all the discussed things from here and on the ml to a nice summary dividing bits which have consensus already and bits we should discuss further
<geser> a "final" proposal would be nice as I don't currently know for what "proposal" exactly we try to find a consensus
<persia> sistpoty|work: That's a great idea.  Are you willing to volunteer?
<\sh> persia: you appointed emgent for that ,-)
<sistpoty|work> well, as I wrote on the mailing list, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to act as such a shepherd (as I started the thread)
<sistpoty|work> persia: but if that's ok, I'd volunteer
<emgent> sorry I have to go in the office, i will see log later.
<emgent> ?
<persia> sistpoty|work: I don't think we're at the shepard point yet, but you're certainly welcome to help define the questions for discussion.
<persia> emgent: Thanks.
<txwikinger> ?
<sistpoty|work> persia: isn't that what's a shepherd supposed to do? (unstall stalled discussions) or did I misinterpret that one?
<persia> OK.  So on this point, sistpoty|work will write up a fresh summary of current discussions, and we'll continue with the ML+IRC and come back next time to appoint a shepard.
<persia> sistpoty|work: At least your interpretation differs from mine.
<sistpoty|work> persia: also your spelling :P
 * txwikinger wonders how many ways there are how you can discuss how people should be enable to volunteer and do a job
<persia> :)
<txwikinger> Otherwise, I think you are doing fine :D
<geser> txwikinger: too many else it would be easy
<persia> My understanding was that when we came to a loose conclusion, we'd appoint a shepard to judge consensus on the mailing list.
<persia> In this case, I don't feel like we understand the question.
<persia> sistpoty|work: Do our positions differ significantly enough to be a disagreement worthy of discussion, or shall we move on?
<sistpoty|work> persia: feel free to move on :)
<persia> OK.
<persia> That concludes our agenda.
<persia> The next MOTU Meeting will be 25th July, 20:00 UTC.
<persia> Any volunteers to take care of the announcements?
<persia> Anyone?
 * RainCT not as he always forgets about meetings :P
<persia> OK.  I'll do them again, but I'm not doing it next time :p
<persia> Thank you all for coming.
<RainCT> heh
<sistpoty|work> thanks for hosting persia
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<emgent> back
<emgent> yeah 20:00 UTC sounds good.
 * freeflying 
<freeflying> sorry, type wrong
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-12
<luis> hello?
<warp10> @now
<ubottu> warp10: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 12 2008, 05:16:04 - Next meeting: Xubuntu Community in 7 hours 43 minutes
<highvoltage> xubuntu meeting is in an hour right?
<gnomefreak> t
<gnomefreak> yes 56 minutes highvoltage
<highvoltage> ok kewl
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Xubuntu Community | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<j1mc> hi all
<TuxCrafter> hi jim
<j1mc> who all is here for the xubuntu meeting this morning?
<j1mc> hi TuxCrafter
<charlie-tca> good morning, I'm here
<j1mc> hi charlie-tca
<technolalia> I'm here for the Xubuntu meeting
<j1mc> good morning, tec
<j1mc> sorry, technolalia
<j1mc> yeay!
<cody-somerville> :)
<j1mc> hi all, there's an agenda that i put together up on the wiki
<j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<j1mc> please have a quick look at it, if you haven't already
 * cody-somerville takes a look.
<cody-somerville> j1mc, Any particular order you want to go in?
<j1mc> well, the strategy document is pretty meaty, and i was thinking that would be pretty important, but i'm just waking up.  maybe we could get to that second?
<j1mc> let's go ahead and start with the website.
<cody-somerville> Sounds good to me :)
<j1mc> i've put up a draft of the project plan up on pastebin.
<j1mc> http://pastebin.ca/1070047
<j1mc> what i was working toward with creating that project plan was ...
<Rev_> i dont know if this has anything to do here, but something really bothered me in xubuntu is the fact that it doesn deal with the ntfs partitions as ubuntu does. i mean, in ubuntu, they appear mounted in the file browser naturally. in thunar, they aint mounted, and even manually mounted, they aint displayed in Thunar as a shortcut. but maybe, it has only to do with thunar and not xubuntu itself...
<j1mc> to create a team of individuals who would each be assigned a small chunk of the overall project
<j1mc> Rev_: we'll get to those kinds of items later in the meeting.
<j1mc> thanks for being here, though.  :]
<Rev_> j1mc, ok, i gotta go right now, so, if i dont show up later (cause its family lunch time right now :) ), just try to think about this request ;)
<Rev_> thanks and good luck for the meeting, bye
<j1mc> at this time, i'd like to see if we can identify team members who might like to be involved with the project
<j1mc> from an internal, xubuntu-volunteer project perspective.
<cody-somerville> I can help with it.
<charlie-tca> I can help
<j1mc> :]
<j1mc> charlie-tca and cody-somerville are there any areas in particular that you were thinking of working?
<j1mc> charlie-tca: i'm not as familiar with your skills, other than your great wiki contributions.  :]
<cody-somerville> I can take care of the technical stuff
<cody-somerville> so we just need content and a great theme
<j1mc> of course, i am willing to work on the organization and content
<technolalia> is the xubuntu site really on drupal *4.0*?
<j1mc> technolalia: yes
<charlie-tca> I can work on content
<charlie-tca> I ran my sites on drupal a year ago, now I'm using Xoops
<technolalia> then isn't updating that the number one priority?
<j1mc> charlie-tca: thanks.  :]
<j1mc> technolalia: yes, it's important.  would you be interested in helping out at all?
<technolalia> I'm currently learning the latest drupal (6.2)
<technolalia> no experience of 4, or of updating
<technolalia> woul dbe interested in helping if it was 6.x
<j1mc> technolalia: i don't think we were going to do much of an "upgrade" migration so much as starting fresh.
<j1mc> (others can correct me if i'm wrong on that)
<cody-somerville> We'll use the latest version of Drupal
<technolalia> then I'm interested in helping out
<j1mc> technolalia: do you know php and css?  would you be interested in working with cody-somerville and any others on the technical end?
<technolalia> learning php, know some css
<cody-somerville> What we really need is someone who knows la CSS
<cody-somerville> and someone to do the art
<technolalia> web dev is what I'm going to be concentrating on professionally
<cody-somerville> We need a theme
 * j1mc nods
<charlie-tca> I'm brushing up on CSS; maybe I can help with that, too
<highvoltage> howdy!
<technolalia> would jmac be interested in helping with the artwork?
<j1mc> heya highvoltage
<technolalia> he does the xubuntu artwork
<technolalia> (which is v. good, imho)
<j1mc> technolalia: of course, i will ask jmak.  it would be great if he could assist with some artwork / color scheme work.
<j1mc> i agree with cody in that the CSS / theme would probably be one of the parts where we would need the most help.
<cody-somerville> Its always where we've stumbled with the website redesign efforts before
<j1mc> i know we have people here who are brushing up on CSS or are learning it, but we really need someone who is already sharp with it.
<j1mc> cody-somerville: right
<highvoltage> yep, the current one is still a friends-electric based one that was done so long ago, I can hardy remember it
<highvoltage> *hardly
<highvoltage> (force of habbit)
<j1mc> perhaps we could attract someone if we already had a well-laid out plan of site structure and intended content.
<j1mc> to say, "we need these modules for this content," and then post to ubuntu-art mailing lists, and the ubuntu-art portion of the forum
<j1mc> it doesn't sound like we have anyone here who is ready to step up on the theme part, though, and i think we should move ahead on other parts w/o having the theme part in place.  so that way when we get the theme workers, we won't be holding them up with content.
<j1mc> thoughts?
<technolalia> yes: plan first
<highvoltage> that sounds like a good idea, having some kind of roadmap and goals for the site.
<charlie-tca> agreed
<technolalia> jlmc: can you put your pastebin text on the wiki?
<j1mc> highvoltage: i have a rough project plan here: http://pastebin.ca/1070047
<j1mc> technolalia: i was just thinking to do that
<j1mc> so i will
<highvoltage> at least there won't be people working aginst each other if there is an agreed roadmap
<j1mc> because this is a larger project, i was also going to coordinate standing meetings on it.
<highvoltage> j1mc: hmm, that pastebin link doesn't want to open here :-/
<j1mc> http://pastebin.ca/1070047
<j1mc> better?
<charlie-tca> I have the pastebin open, here
<j1mc> ok, so we have cody and technolalia who are interested in the technical drupal/php parts of it
<j1mc> myself and charlie-tca who are interested in the structure / content of it
<j1mc> possibly jmak (i'm optimistic / hopeful) who could assist with the artwork parts
<technolalia> I'm interested in the content side as well
<j1mc> technolalia: thanks
<technolalia> though I don't know how much time I could put towards that
<technolalia> keeping news, links and release notes up to date needs to be done regularly
<j1mc> technolalia: np.  i'd rather have us focus on just one part each so that we don't spread ourselves too thin
<technolalia> sure
<j1mc> we will enlist help from outside the xubuntu team, too
<j1mc> but i wanted to get things started internally first
<j1mc> i will get the wiki on this up and moving today, including content sections, and will invite ideas/contributions from others
<j1mc> any other thoughts on this for now?
<cody-somerville> I think I have a theme
<j1mc> that's good. :]
<j1mc> any other thoughts on it for now?
<j1mc> any thoughts on moving forward after the wiki page is set up?  is there a particular night (i was thinking of meeting every week initially, and then every two weeks once we're up and moving) that would work well to meet?
<cody-somerville> Touching base weekly would be good
<cody-somerville> What sort of goals do we have?
<charlie-tca> Weekly, to start is good
<j1mc> vague ones for now?  :)  (me admits the truth of the matter).  i think the initial goal is to secure contributors, split up the tasks into meaningful, manageable chunks, and to make steady progress.
<j1mc> the site goals, are TBD by the team.
<j1mc> that's my thought
<j1mc> i will put together a more detailed project plan on the wiki.
<cody-somerville> I'd like to have the new website ready for Intrepid
<j1mc> definitely.  sorry for not being explicit about that, but that is a definite goal.
<j1mc> and it will factor in to our timeline.
<cody-somerville> Okay
<cody-somerville> Sounds good.
<j1mc> i'm glad that we have some volunteers amongst the team.  :]  charlie-tca, technolalia, and cody-somerville ... i look forward to working with you on this project!
<cody-somerville> :]
<j1mc> w000t
<charlie-tca> :)
<j1mc> ok, on to the next topic?
<j1mc> oh, wait...
<j1mc> meeting dates?  weekly?
<j1mc> i was thinking wednesday
<charlie-tca> Bad day here
<j1mc> what time zones are people in?
<j1mc> ok... what day works for people?
<charlie-tca> anything but Wednesday
<technolalia> I'm in gmt +1 (UK)
 * charlie-tca time zone gmt -6
<j1mc> i'm utc-5
<j1mc> thursday at utc 1800?
<charlie-tca> great
<j1mc> cody-somerville and technolalia ?
<cody-somerville> I'm -3 currently
 * TuxCrafter Sat Jul 12 15:43:58 CEST 2008 (i am back)
<j1mc> would thursdays at utc 1800 work for brief meeting updates?  cody-somerville i think you'd be at work during those times
<technolalia> can't make this coming Thursday
<technolalia> would generally prefer earlier in the week
<cody-somerville> j1mc, I can make the meeting when I'm at work
<j1mc> tuesdays at utc 1800 then?
<technolalia> fine by me
<j1mc> we could skip this first week bc we don't have much advance notice, and i don't even know my schedule for this tuesday
<j1mc> (i would have to head out on my lunch break to meet)
 * cody-somerville nods.
<charlie-tca> Okay
<j1mc> ok.  tuesdays at utc 1800.  :]
<j1mc> on to the next topic then.
<j1mc> cody-somerville: did you want to talk about the strategy document?
<cody-somerville> Next CC meeting it is going before the community council
<cody-somerville> I hope everyone shows up for it
<j1mc> ok.  when's the meeting?
<cody-somerville> Tuesday
<j1mc> cool.  i think i can make that one.
<j1mc> it's at 11:00 utc, right?
<cody-somerville> I believe so
<j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<j1mc> anything else to add about the strategy document for now?
<technolalia> have you got an url for it?
<technolalia> ah, just found it
<technolalia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Intrepid/StrategyDocument
<charlie-tca> I spotted a couple of sentences I will email. Wording is strange
<j1mc> does anyone here have any information on the status of xfce4.6?
<TuxCrafter> j1mc: they are working on the intergration of xfconf
 * cody-somerville nods.
<TuxCrafter> and have some problems
<TuxCrafter> its will take a while
<TuxCrafter> not much time there
<j1mc> TuxCrafter: so they haven't released an alpha yet?
<TuxCrafter> j1mc: em em there is something for testing
<TuxCrafter> but i would not call it a alpha
 * j1mc nods
<j1mc> we had initially intended to include 4.6 in intrepid.  does this delay put this at risk?
<j1mc> do you think?
<TuxCrafter> i would like to see an new upstream theme engine and system
<TuxCrafter> for xfce
<gpocentek> j1mc: it is a risk IMO
<TuxCrafter> j1mc: hard to say the developers will not say a date.. its done when its doen
<TuxCrafter> s/doen/done/\
 * j1mc nods
<TuxCrafter> just put latest upstream release in as target for xubuntu
<TuxCrafter> we can always package latest stable and latest testing or not?
<gpocentek> we can't have both in the repos
<mr_pouit> just put it in the xubuntu-team ppa
<j1mc> could we have the testing in a PPA?
<j1mc> right
<j1mc> i'm not so much involved in the packaging.  mr_pouit gpocentek ... do you have anything you'd like to say about this at this time?
<gpocentek> personnaly i'd rather spend time on something else than packaging 4.6
<gpocentek> but mr_pouit doesn't have the same opinion i think:)
 * TuxCrafter i am back my intel display driver crashed
<j1mc> welcome back, TuxCrafter
<j1mc> ok, well it sounds like including the latest stable xfce for intrepid would be the way to go, and then including 4.6 in the ppa would be an option if it hasn't been released / isn't massively broken would be an option.
<j1mc> ah... typos.  :/
<j1mc> gpocentek: while you're here.  you had included an item about goffice/gnumeric.
<j1mc> what did you want to say about it?
<mr_pouit> merging
<cody-somerville> As long as they're relatively close to the target they've identified, we can ship 4.6
<gpocentek> yep, do we keep the merges?
<mr_pouit> no (for both questions)
<gpocentek> they seem useless to me
<gpocentek> (-gtk variant)
<gpocentek> core dev don't want to handle those merges either
<mr_pouit> cody-somerville: since it's the 4.6.*0*, there is a big risk of regressions.
<gpocentek> cody-somerville: did you test the svn at least?
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, I agree and thats why we need to get 4.6.0 into Intrepid ASAP
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, Not yet.
<mr_pouit> you're kidding, right?
<gpocentek> cody-somerville: please test it
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, mr_pouit: What do you think about having both 4.4 and 4.6 in the repo?
<TuxCrafter> i think we can make 4.6
<gpocentek> i'm not sure it's doable
<cody-somerville> KDE has two versions
<gpocentek> kde 3 and 4 are entirely different
<gpocentek> different libs, sonames, apps, installation paths, etc
<gpocentek> not xfce 4.4 & 4.6
<TuxCrafter> based on this last mail i think its 4.6 is should be possible > http://pastebin.ca/1070074
<gpocentek> TuxCrafter: alpha is not there yet
<gpocentek> the thing is that 4.6 will not be different on the user side
<gpocentek> there are only a few changes, and big risks to have regressions
<gpocentek> (user side)
<TuxCrafter> gpocentek: true
<j1mc> that message was sent on june 27, and i don't think they've sent an update since.
<gpocentek> i don't know what's the point of having it absolutely
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, mr_pouit: I don't think we can sit on the fence, I think we need to decide if we're going to target one or the other
<gpocentek> cody-somerville: i vote for 4.4, but my opinion doesn't matter htat much
<TuxCrafter> i would say target 4.4 the risk on regression is to big
<cody-somerville> I'm not inherently opposed to targeting 4.4 but this is the first release after an LTS which is when we should be making our riskiest changes
<gpocentek> (i'm talking about the official repos, a ppa for 4.6 could be nice)
<TuxCrafter> the advantages of 4.6 are to little compared to the changes of the complete system
<cody-somerville> Okay.
<j1mc> if there is going to be any argument for including 4.6, the "edginess" of a post-LTS release is one of them, but given that we're intending to make good memory footprint improvements... it also seems like a good chance to have a very stable and workable system for older PC's.
<j1mc> putting it in a PPA would always be an option for those who want to use the edgier version
<j1mc> s/it/4.6
 * cody-somerville nods.
<j1mc> if 4.6 really comes around, though... and we have it in a ppa, and it's running well...
<j1mc> when would we need to commit to 4.4 or 4.6?
<gpocentek> ASAP I guess :)
<cody-somerville> Lets go with 4.4 and aim to really deliver a kick ass release
<j1mc> that sounds like a good idea.  any thoughts about putting 4.6 in a ppa?
<cody-somerville> Naturally
<j1mc> :]
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, gpocentek: Sound good?
<gpocentek> sure, if someone takes the time to do it :)
<gpocentek> so what about goffice/gnumeric?
<gpocentek> since you're planning to include yelp, i don't see the point of keeping the -gtk build (the deps will be there anyway)
<mr_pouit> yes
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, aren't they already included?
<gpocentek> the deps?
<Rev_> j1mc, as i have to leave now, is there a way to read a summary of what have been said here today? i mean, regarding the issue i brought up, is there any way to know if it had been tackled?
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, yes. I see three gnome libs.
<gpocentek> maybe, so the -gtk build are useless
<j1mc> Rev_: we'll post the minutes, yes
<cody-somerville> libgnome2-0, libgnomeui-0 , and libgnomevfs2-0 all show as being a member of the xubuntu-task
<gpocentek> gnumeric doesn't bring other gnome libs
<Rev_> j1mc, good, thanks, see you later
<Rev_> bye all
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, What functionality is missing in the -gtk variant?
<cody-somerville> ie. whats stopping us from pushing the patches upstream?
<gpocentek> debian never wanted the gtk build
<gpocentek> s/gtk/multibuild/
<gpocentek> on it's a big merge
<gpocentek> s/on/and/
<gpocentek> the gtk variant doesn't use a vfs sytem and the integration with the desktop is not as good
<gpocentek> as the gnome variant
<cody-somerville> ok
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, its your call
<gpocentek> i'll drop a mailon ubuntu-dev to be sure than noones need it and i'll reduce the diff then
<cody-somerville> sounds good
<j1mc> sounds good to me, too.
<j1mc> we're going on two hours (almost).  how are people on time?  any other items people would like to cover before wrapping up?
<cody-somerville> How about improving performance and the fuse stuff?
<j1mc> ok
<cody-somerville> I'm going to start looking at session start time here soon using bootchart
 * j1mc nods
<cody-somerville> I'd like to get people to the desktop as soon as possible
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, mr_pouit: Strawman: What do you think of disabling xfce4-session?
<gpocentek> ?
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, Xfce4 team is thinking of getting rid of xfce4-session due to all the trouble it causes IIRC
<cody-somerville> So it might be something to consider disabling it ourselves
<gpocentek> did you try already?
 * TuxCrafter does not use xfce4-session and removed it
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, yes
<j1mc> doesn't xfce4-session include the autostarted applications?
<TuxCrafter> j1mc: you can use an other system for it
<gpocentek> I think so, + gnome and kde startup
<j1mc> TuxCrafter: what can you use?
<TuxCrafter> i just use a file in me home dir with a list of apps that needs to get started
<TuxCrafter> j1mc: the file is checked in the xinitrc file
<cody-somerville> The biggest feature loss is that all the apps that were running when you logged out won't automatically start again
<TuxCrafter> true
<cody-somerville> However, this isn't so bad considering the issues with xfce4-panel and the like not starting
<gpocentek> so the idea is to provide regressions to gain 3 seconds on the boot?
<TuxCrafter> but that is a loss + benefit
<TuxCrafter> because if a broken program restarts its breaks the system again
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, no, I'm thinking about the xfce4-panel start issues
<gpocentek> cody-somerville: removing xfce4-session mean removing some features AFAICT
<TuxCrafter> a fixed starup profile solves a lot of issues
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, Yes it does.
<j1mc> people will want to add / remove autostarted applications, though, and asking them to create a file in their home dir, and then edit an xinitrc file... doesn't sound too user friendly to me.
<gpocentek> yep
<cody-somerville> autostarted apps can still happen very easily
<TuxCrafter> it also needs some changes for user friendly shutdown and reboot etcetra
<mr_pouit> cody-somerville: how ?
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, we could have a directory in .config and all the .desktop files get executed at session start
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, and we can create a simple GUI to manage them
<gpocentek> 'we' being?
<cody-somerville> I can do it
<gpocentek> what about the session restauration?
<cody-somerville> People can install xfce4-session if thats a feature they'd like
<cody-somerville> But considering how much trouble we see in #xubuntu regarding sessions, I don't think it is a feature that'll be missed too horribly
<TuxCrafter> http://imagebin.ca/view/dcRY36.html An example what is possible with xfce and a fixed startup profile and some fine tuning (btw with the last 8.04 release this is not possible anymore with xubuntu because there are to much startup dependency's.
<gpocentek> i see, we fix the bug by removing the feature
<gpocentek> that makes sens, i like it
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, Upstream is deprecating xfce4-session
<cody-somerville> We don't have much choice unless you'd like to maintain xfce4-session
<mr_pouit> cody-somerville: but it isn't deprecated yet
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, which is why we're having this discussion
<TuxCrafter> can we agree in just following upstream?
<mr_pouit> we'll just follow upstream so
<TuxCrafter> so if upstream xfce does not remove it we also do not remove it
<TuxCrafter> and if we think it should be removed we go to upstream and present our case
<cody-somerville> I think we should do whats best for the users
<cody-somerville> I'll write up a proposal regarding this and send it to the mailing list
<cody-somerville> Lets talk about Samba browsing
<TuxCrafter> so if its best for our users we present it to upstream because our users are also there users
<TuxCrafter> samba browsing == fusesmb??
<cody-somerville> TuxCrafter, It isn't required that upstream agree with all of our decisions
<cody-somerville> TuxCrafter, I'd like to make it easier to access network shares in Xubuntu
<TuxCrafter> make a faq: how to access windows network shares??
<cody-somerville> Who has tried that fusesmb hack?
<TuxCrafter> i use fuse sshfs
<j1mc> cody-somerville: i tried it some time ago.  maybe a year and a half ago
<TuxCrafter> and still got loats of bugs
<TuxCrafter> and dont now how to debug them
<TuxCrafter> s/now/kno/
<cody-somerville> j1mc, I just tried it today and it was pretty neat
<j1mc> i have a friend in a local lug who uses fuse sshfs
<j1mc> cody-somerville: fusesmb?
<charlie-tca> I use fuse sshfs, it works well for me
<cody-somerville> j1mc, although I couldn't write to share but I dunno if that was fusesmb or how the share's configuration
 * j1mc nods
<cody-somerville> Might we could do is have fusesmb mount on login configured with their credentials, etc. etc.
<cody-somerville> To integrate this, we'll patch Thunar to have an item in the left bar like "File System" or "Trash"
<TuxCrafter> I maybe would like to see a by default disabled system for smb with easy to find info how to enable it
<cody-somerville> Sure
<cody-somerville> It could mount on demand
<TuxCrafter> but i would definitely not want to see something that takes up resources in one of the core elements like thunar
<cody-somerville> Acknowledged
<TuxCrafter> you can of cource patch thunar with an extra help link to a faq website on the xubuntu website with a faq for smb acces!
<TuxCrafter> however an uptream solution would be better for this
<j1mc> if we can assist users in enabling that functionality w/o hindering the regular performance of thunar, then i think it's ok
<cody-somerville> TuxCrafter, Optimally, Upstream would provide us with everything we could ever want, yes.
<TuxCrafter> sshfs exist besides thunar this is the way to go i think
<j1mc> TuxCrafter: could you rephrase that?  i'm not sure i understood
<cody-somerville> My proposal won't have any performance impact on Thunar
<TuxCrafter> cody-somerville: nothing comes for free, so upstream will never provide everything you want without making and supporting a case
<cody-somerville> Okay, so no body sees any problems with my idea?
<j1mc> i am ok with it
<j1mc> one final thing, and i don't understand the technical elements of it, but on regular ubuntu (w/gnome) you don't have to enter your gnome-keyring password after you log in to access a prior-used wireless network.
<j1mc> any ability to get that into intrepid for xubuntu?
<j1mc> it's a very nice feature.
<j1mc> i've heard there's a workaround on the forums, but haven't investigated.
<j1mc> it's interesting, because that feature is present in ubuntu, and fedora 9, but not opensuse 11
<cody-somerville> I can look into it
<cody-somerville> but maybe gpocentek or mr_pouit could help with that feature
<cody-somerville> Anyhow, I need to get going
<gpocentek> don't count on me for this
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, on the keyring stuff?
<gpocentek> yes
 * TuxCrafter also has a question for an upstream solution of gtk-print and gtk-open for thunderbird but dont know if upstream is working on this?
<j1mc> i need to get going, too, but we can look into it later.
<j1mc> thanks for your time today, everyone.  i'm glad we were able to meet.
<TuxCrafter> j1mc: cody-somerville: bye everybody
<j1mc> bye TuxCrafter
 * cody-somerville waves.
<j1mc> next meeting in 3 weeks.  talk to you then, if not sooner.
<j1mc> :]
 * charlie-tca so long
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-13
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team
<__stress___> I ï»¿ accidentally deleted some of my /home/"user" config files and now when I type "sudo any_command" and "tab" the command so that it can be auto-completed it does not complete....otherwise when I just type the comand and tab it, it auto-copletes...what can I do?
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-07
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> Hello all welcome to the Ubuntu Community Learning Project Meeting
<popey> hey
<cprofitt> hey popey
<cprofitt> he doctormo
<doctormo> hello
<cprofitt> pleia2, are you here?
<cprofitt> Vantrax|Work, Vantrax
<Vantrax|Work> i is kinda here
<cprofitt> We have no official agenda -- and it appears as though many are not here.
<Vantrax|Work> yeah
<cprofitt> Would anyone like to motion to close the meeting and we can wait until next week
<Vantrax|Work> i guess i can update everyone on the theme
<cprofitt> that would work too...
<Vantrax|Work> http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/theme/preview.php?preview=learn_ubuntu
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/theme/preview.php?preview=learn_ubuntu
<Vantrax|Work> its almost there
<cprofitt> or we can wait until next week... your choice
<Vantrax|Work> the menus have to be manually coded after we work out what menu's we want
<Vantrax|Work> those are just the ones that were already there
<cprofitt> it looks like grey stripes?
<Vantrax|Work> oro??
<Vantrax|Work> have you logged in before trying the link?
<cprofitt> no
<Vantrax|Work> you have to log into http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
<Vantrax|Work> then use the link or go admin theme, theme selector, preview
<cprofitt> I am not sure I have a login to this new site...
<Vantrax|Work> one min
<popey> ditto
<Vantrax|Work> http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
<Vantrax|Work> there you go
<Vantrax|Work> ive updated it to show on login for the moment
<Vantrax|Work> it still needs work, but its getting closer
<Vantrax|Work> er on the main page
<popey> seems a bit broken in firefox
<popey> calendar is way off screen
<cprofitt> nice overall Vantrax the blue underline on the mouse over is not the best...
<Vantrax|Work> as i said, im still debugging
<Vantrax|Work> moodle themes are very hard to debug >.<
<cprofitt> popey, wow... I did not even see the calendar... good catch
<Vantrax|Work> it will take some time to get it right
<cprofitt> Vantrax, why is there a link to OWA
<cprofitt> for Newberry college?
<Vantrax|Work> unfortunately we dont have anyone that knows how to do this
<Vantrax|Work> cprofitt: the theme came from them
<cprofitt> got it...
<cprofitt> so we have to rip and replace.
<cprofitt> what is it in... PHP?
<Vantrax|Work> im still updating it, just put it there so you guys could see what is going on
<Vantrax|Work> php, html, css
<cprofitt> I like the colors ...
<cprofitt> and the branding doctormo did is nice
<Vantrax|Work> yeah, it works well
<Vantrax|Work> it will look great soon
<Vantrax|Work> the funny thing is it looks alot better in the preview mode >.<
<cprofitt> obviously we will have to rework some stuff...
<doctormo> :-D thanks
<Vantrax|Work> by we you mean me >.<
<cprofitt> Vantrax|Work, if you can send me an admin password I can try to poke around at it...
<Vantrax|Work> sure
<popey> looks good
<Vantrax|Work> it will
<doctormo> I get the feeling I want to have my hand in the fixing and further design for this too
<Vantrax|Work> feel free doctormo
<Vantrax|Work> im happy to have you take over:P
<Vantrax|Work> gives me headaches
<doctormo> heh
<doctormo> considering my css, svg, design background I might be able to do it quickly. But I need a hand with the php
<cprofitt> Vantrax|Work, can the theme be modified via the web or do you need ssh access?
<Vantrax|Work> sure, im reasonably good at php hacking from doing joomla themes
<Vantrax|Work> ssh access
<cprofitt> k
<Vantrax|Work> i do an scp copy then change the permissions
<doctormo> Vantrax|Work: is all the files were modifing on our launchpad project page yet?
<Vantrax|Work> no, they are living in my ubuntuone folder shared out
<Vantrax|Work> they can be added to LP if you want
<doctormo> Vantrax|Work: I'll need code commited to bzr and ssh access, that'll give me everythign I need to get going.
<doctormo> Do you want me to organise lp?
<Vantrax|Work> sure
<Vantrax|Work> i dont know LP that well, and dont know bzr at all
<cprofitt> Well.. the work looks good so far Vantrax|Work
<doctormo> Vantrax|Work: something that this should hope to introduce is the workflow for this kind of collab
<cprofitt> and I like the way it is working with doctormo's artwork
<doctormo> OK cprofitt, you can add those as actions then
<Vantrax|Work> doctormo: true, lets do that later outside ubuntu meeting
<doctormo> doctormo to add Vantrax's code to launchpad project and Vantrax|Work to organise ssh access to website.
<cprofitt> [ACTION]doctormo to get SSH access and code put in bzr, he will work with Vantrax to get this all setup
<MootBot> ACTION received: doctormo to get SSH access and code put in bzr, he will work with Vantrax to get this all setup
<cprofitt> are there any other topics... or should we motion to close the meeting until next week?
<doctormo> cprofitt: No lets call this impromptu meeting to a close
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:22.
<TheMuso> Hey amachu.
<amachu> Hi
<amachu> TheMuso: Hi, got stuck up with a work and it caused a five minute delay..
<TheMuso> Np, we don't have our candidate here yet anyway.
<amachu> elky: persia: lifeless: Hi
<elky> um... is it today?
<TheMuso> Yes.
 * elky looks at the calendar
<elky> we might want to fix that before next week then :)
<amachu> hey 07 th looked so long for me after the beginning of a month
<amachu> and its next week :-)
<elky> hehe
<amachu> elky: you are right
<amachu> :-)
<elky> what did the wiki say, though?
<amachu> elky: on 14th
<amachu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<amachu> TheMuso: on 14th
<TheMuso> ah ok
<elky> well, we are short of quorum anyway
<TheMuso> I could have swarn it was this week, since its been 2 weeks.
 * TheMuso usually goes by the 2 week rule.
<elky> TheMuso, it has been, but i suspect it was not used in specifying the date
<TheMuso> right
<amachu> TheMuso: me too :-)
<TheMuso> oh well so bye for now then. :)
<amachu> bye bye
<amachu> :-)
<elky> cyas :)
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:12. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * NCommander coughs
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:12.
<mr_pouit> that was a fast meeting :}
<artir> XD
<NCommander> mr_pouit, its a matter of time, and the inconsistanty of it
<kuerten> hello, i've read an email on the "osm-talk" mailinglist about the offline-openstreetmap-dvd for ngos
<kuerten> anybody here who is active in this project?=
<sommer> hey all
<soren> o/
<kirkland> howdy all
<ivoks> hi
<kirkland> so mathiaz is running a few minutes late
<kirkland> he asked me to get started running the meeting today
<kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<kirkland> the agenda is ^
<soren> kirkland: Do the #startmeeting thing.
<kirkland> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is kirkland.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<soren> Or did you want to leave that to mathiaz?
<kirkland> soren: i don't really know the mootbot commands
<ajmitch> morning
<soren> kirkland: Noone does. Just pretend.
<kirkland> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
 * kirkland looks for action items
<kirkland> ACTION: jmdault to start packaging asterisk 1.6+dkms
<kirkland> jmdault: how's that coming?
<kirkland> jmd<tab><tab> -> nothing
<kirkland> anyone else workingo n packaging asterisk 1.6+dkms?
<kirkland> ACTION: nijaba to add rules detailing what makes a relevant tip and whatâs not
<kirkland> looks like there has been some good discussion on the tips on the ubuntu-server@ list
<kirkland> nijaba is at a conference today, and won't be here in attendance
<kirkland> if you have ideas for tips, please get them to nijaba
<kirkland> i think the current rules are "2 lines less than 80 characters"
<kirkland> these would be randomly, optionally appended to the motd using update-motd
<ajmitch> was it agreed whether it just be about packages in main?
<kirkland> ajmitch: let me review the thread
<zul> morning
<kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/server-tips
<kirkland> ajmitch: looks like exceptions can be made at the discretion of this team meeting
<kirkland> ajmitch: ie, if there's something about universe (or some group of universe tips), those should be brought to this meeting or the mailing list
<ajmitch> ok
<kirkland> ACTION: ttx to add Roadmap Review to next meeting agenda
<kirkland> ttx is on vacation at the moment, and isn't around to discuss this with us
<kirkland> that's the end of last week's items
<kirkland> did anyone else have any followups from last week's discussion?
<kirkland> [TOPIC] RoadMap
<MootBot> New Topic:  RoadMap
<kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<kirkland> there's a few easy merges still out there
<kirkland> anyone here hoping to become a MOTU this year?
<zul> oooh...me
<zul> oh wait..
<ivoks> -> RoAkSoAx
 * kirkland smacks zul :-)
<ajmitch> zul: you don't qualify
<RoAkSoAx> I am :)
 * RoAkSoAx hoping to become MOTU this year 
 * sommer has thought about it, but gets distracted :)
<kirkland> merges are one of the best ways to really pump up your visibility
<ajmitch> asterisk doesn't count as an easy merge anymore, I think heimdal was done at some point recently?
<kirkland> Karmic's merge window is rapidly closing
<kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
<kirkland> we've already hit debian import freeze
<kirkland> merges will be pretty much done by Feature Freeze (August 27)
<kirkland> as for Testing ....
<kirkland> anyone here running Karmic?
<kirkland> real hardware or vm's?
<ivoks> i am, vm
<RoAkSoAx> vm here too
<ajmitch> I am, real hardware
<kirkland> ivoks: RoAkSoAx: ajmitch: reporting bugs?
<ivoks> probably we are all :)
<kirkland> there's plenty out there :-)
<kirkland> ivoks: i have it on my Thinkpad x61 ;-)
<ajmitch> kirkland: of course
<kirkland> cool, great, keep up the good work
<ivoks> i'm not reporting; i'm fixing them :)
<RoAkSoAx> I'm testing HA packages :)
 * kirkland high-fives ivoks 
<kirkland> that's all for the agenda
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Name one cool Ubuntu thing you did last week
<MootBot> New Topic:  Name one cool Ubuntu thing you did last week
<kirkland> ivoks: what did you fix last week?
<ivoks> drbd
<ivoks> still not uploaded into karmic, but it's on ppa
<kirkland> ivoks: for the record, one liner about drbd, please
<ivoks> and lots of pacemaker* openais* corosync* stuff
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: what about you?
<ivoks> drbd; debian is interested in dkms (http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/debian-ha-maintainers/2009-July/000126.html); we have a dkms enabled package in PPA
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland, Fixed Heartbeat and now it is working, and I'm doing further testing
<ivoks> and i'll probably upload it by the end of the week
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: nice
<kirkland> ivoks: very good
<kirkland> ajmitch: ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: I've played with puppet and started to work on directory integration
<ajmitch> looking at PHP 5.3 & starting to help out the debian team with various bits & pieces
<mathiaz> kirkland: looks good so far :)
<kirkland> mathiaz: cool, that sounds great
<kirkland> ajmitch: PHP is always a big merge
<kirkland> soren: zul: ?
<ajmitch> kirkland: I know, I'm trying to reduce that :)
<kirkland> ajmitch: that would be a huge help
<zul> kirkland: i triaged alot of bugs amongst other things
<kirkland> zul: nice, wanna help triage some KVM bugs?  :-)
<zul> kirkland: if i had time ;)
<soren> kirkland: Sorry, what?
<kirkland> anyone else out there actively following this meeting that wants to mention something cool they worked on last week?
<kirkland> soren: one cool Ubuntu-Server thing you did last week.
<ivoks> napravi jos jednoga
<soren> kirkland: Eucalyptus. A lot.
<ivoks> ups... :)
<kirkland> soren: nice
<soren> THat sums up last week pretty well, actually :)
<kirkland> so soren and I sprinted with the Eucalyptus folks last week
<kirkland> i worked on two new tools for the Ubuntu server, powernap and powerwake
<kirkland> i should be blogging an announcement about that this week
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<kirkland> mathiaz: i gather you're back now?\
<kirkland> mathiaz: i think we've covered the agenda
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes
<mathiaz> kirkland: great
<zul> so I have something
<kirkland> zul: hit me
<zul> so ajmitch and a bunch of users have been asking for php 5.3 in karmic ajmitch has more information about what needs to be done so Ill let him take it from here
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> as you probably saw, it's been uploaded to debian experimental for some testing
<ajmitch> 5.3 introduces a few big changes, and probably some bugs, such as the suhosin patch not updated for 5.3 yet
<ajmitch> currently we're down to just 1 patch difference from debian, aside from the changes to debian/{rules,control}, but it's undecided whether we should stick with 5.2.10 in karmic, or go with 5.3
<ajmitch> anyone have any preferences on that? :)
<kirkland> ajmitch: is 5.3 GA upstream at php.net?
<ivoks> i always considered non-LTS releases as a playground for testing new stuff, so i'd support going for 5.3
<mathiaz> ajmitch: why should we move to 5.3?
<kirkland> ajmitch: or is it a beta/dev release?
<zul> i dont have a problem with it the only thing is the suhosin patch is not applied
<zul> yet
<ajmitch> it's now a stable release on php.net
<mathiaz> zul: what would be the timeframe to get the suhosin patch updated to 5.3?
<ajmitch> mathiaz: because of the number of new features that have been added that people are already asking for
<kirkland> ajmitch: okay, that's a good thing;  as mathiaz said, what's the motivation for 5.3?
<zul> mathiaz: dunno
<mathiaz> is it fair to say that shipping without suhosin would be a feature regression?
<ajmitch> apart from the super-awesome ones like goto, it adds namespaces, closures, late static bindings, plus a few pecl extensions moved into the core
<zul> mathiaz: yes imho
<mathiaz> ajmitch: ok - so code that would run on jaunty would not work on karmic if we move to 5.3?
<ajmitch> iirc we enable the core part of suhosin & have the rest available as an extension at the moment
<ajmitch> mathiaz: it ought to work on karmic, they've deprecated but not removed things in 5.3
<mathiaz> ajmitch: ok. I'm unfamiliar with the suhosin patch
<ajmitch> I haven't seen what's needed to be changed for the suhosin patch, it's not a small patch
<mathiaz> ajmitch: thus my naive questions - does the suhosin patch introduce new construct?
<mathiaz> ajmitch: or is it just performance improvements?
<ajmitch> suhosin patch is for security & restricts PHP some more, catches some bugs
<ajmitch> I haven't seen a mention on the debian list of when it may be added back in
<mathiaz> ajmitch: would some scripts break if the suhosin patch is not applied?
<ajmitch> No, they shouldn't
<mathiaz> jdstrand: mdeslaur: what's your opinion on shipping php without the suhosin patch?
<ajmitch> I believe that the patch would likely be enabled again in debian by feature freeze, though couldn't guarantee that
<mathiaz> ajmitch: hm ok.
<kirkland> ajmitch: i wonder if a php ppa might be the best place for it until that point?
<kirkland> ajmitch: for instance, i'm providing daily upstream builds of qemu, qemu-kvm, and libvirt for testing
<ajmitch> kirkland: sounds logical
<kirkland> ajmitch: i'm using those to refine the packaging, and do some testing
<mathiaz> right - that seems like a reasonable plan to my - 5.3 in a PPA
<kirkland> ajmitch: without forcing that on someone
<jdstrand> it would be disappointing to see it go
<kirkland> ajmitch: my goal being to migrate from there into karmic as soon as its ready
<mathiaz> until the suhosin patch is reenabled in which case it can be pushed to karmic
<ajmitch> I was going to throw it in my PPA first, as I said, it's still in experimental
<kirkland> ajmitch: right
<mathiaz> so the plan would be to wait for the suhosin patch to be renenabled and if done so before FF push 5.3 in karmic?
<ajmitch> ok
<mathiaz> is there an ubuntu-php-team ?
<ajmitch> not that I saw, which is why i'm trying to start doing stuff in the debian team instead
<mathiaz> ajmitch: right - that's a great way to collaborate
<mathiaz> I was also thinking about setting up a team PPA
<ajmitch> I know at least one of the debian maintainers is active on launchpad in looking at PHP bugs
<ivoks> would it be possible to provide packages for older ubuntu releases?
<mathiaz> to push the 5.3 package in the team PPA and ask people to test it there
<mathiaz> ivoks: with a PPA - sure
<ivoks> of course, with a ppa
<ajmitch> ivoks: it should be, though some other things may need to be backported
<mathiaz> ivoks: or using -backports
<mdeslaur> I wouldn't want to shit php without the suhosin patch...
<mdeslaur> s/shit/ship/
<jdstrand> mathiaz: re feature regression> http://www.hardened-php.net/suhosin/a_feature_list.html lists the stuff that would be lost in dropping the patch
<mathiaz> mdeslaur: jdstrand: great. thanks for your input.
<mathiaz> mdeslaur: jdstrand: the plan is to wait for the suhosin patch to be ported to 5.3 before uploading to karmic
<mdeslaur> whoa...freudian slip on my part there
<ajmitch> mdeslaur: understandable ;)
<ajmitch> right, I'll look at getting an ubuntu team setup for the PPA
<mathiaz> ajmitch: awesome - thanks:)
<ivoks> that would be great, indeed
<mathiaz> and then announce it on the planet
<mathiaz> IIRC it worked well for the ubuntu-ha team
<mathiaz> ivoks: ^^??
<ajmitch> that'd require me to actually setup a blog, what a shocking thought
<ivoks> yeah... we had more members of ubuntu-ha than i hoped for
<ivoks> ajmitch: abuse ubuntu-server blog :D
<mathiaz> ivoks: and you're using multiple PPAs to handle package?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> one for stable drbd for all ubuntu versions
<ivoks> and one development ppa for all other stuff
<mathiaz> ivoks: awesome! may be the ubuntu-php team could be modeled after that in the medium-term
<ivoks> sure
<ivoks> i'm just not aware how to create access restrictions to ppas
<ivoks> and who was right to upload to ppa anyway? all members of the team or just administrators?
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - that's a good questions
<mathiaz> ivoks: I don't know the answer yet.
<mathiaz> ivoks: I think it would be great to use a LP mailing list to gather users and anounce new package upload to be tested
<mathiaz> ivoks: but still restrict who can upload to the PPAs.
<ivoks> we annonunced it on ubuntu-ha ml
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - and who can subscribe to the ubuntu-ha ml?
<ivoks> members of ubuntu-ha
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - who could also upload to the ubuntu-ha PPAs?
<RoAkSoAx> I think only administrators can upload to PPA
<ivoks> that's what i don't know... i hope that not all members are able to upload to ppa
<ivoks> i really hope only admins can do that :)
<ajmitch> I think all members, from what I recall?
<ajmitch> #launchpad would know
<mathiaz> ivoks: I don't know either - #launchpad is the best place to ask
<ivoks> right
<dholbach> RoAkSoAx: I think all members
<ivoks> that could be an issue :)
<mathiaz> dholbach: do you have examples of other teams that handle that correctly?
<RoAkSoAx> gonna ask on #launchpad
<dholbach> mathiaz: correctly? just create a team that has just uploaders in it, create a PPA for them and you're done :)
<mathiaz> dholbach: right - that's what I though
<mathiaz> create an ubuntu-{ha,php}-maintainers team
<mathiaz> and an ubuntu-{ha,php} team
<mathiaz> the former with PPAs, the latter with mailing lists.
<ivoks> we should really fix the design then
<ivoks> ACL's on PPA
<RoAkSoAx> yep
<RoAkSoAx> gonna create the ubuntu-ha-maintainers team then
<kirkland> okay, guys, are we wrapping this up?
 * nealmcb1 returns from a two-week vacation in the wilds of Utah and Colorado and slowly gets back in the routine....
<ajmitch> kirkland: I hope so, it's nearly 4AM :)
<kirkland> i think we have a consensus, php in a ppa, get suhosin, then merge 5.3 into karmic
<kirkland> ajmitch: heh
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Next Meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting
<kirkland> same time/place?
<ivoks> yep, 3AM ajmitch time
<ajmitch> different time would be lovely, but I'm probably one of the few in this area of the world
<ajmitch> it's been discussed before & too few people would be around at other times, I think?
<mathiaz> ajmitch: yeah - :/
<RoAkSoAx> it's 11 am here and it's still early for me :) xD
<ivoks> how about moving it +2?
<ajmitch> no big problem either way, I don't want to disrupt it for people
<mathiaz> ivoks: that would not fit well with europeans - they eat at this time
<ivoks> i'm european :)
<ivoks> who eats at 7PM?
<ivoks> that's not healty :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: soren and ttx apparently
 * ajmitch would go with same time/place next week
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> -#endmeeting
<kirkland> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:59.
<andresmujica> hi
<bdmurray> hello
 * charlie-tca__ waves
<andresmujica> hi charlie, bdmurray!
<andresmujica> i had to travel and couldn't prepare the proper minutes for last meeting, however i've just pasted the log at the wiki
<andresmujica> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting/Minutes/2009-06-09
<bdmurray> thanks for doing that!
<andresmujica> the main topics discussed last time were UDS related topics ( process for new bugsquad members, mentorship, kernel bug handling, ubuntu-bug usage, symptom bug based reporting) and the LP improvements
<mrooney> good morning bugsquad :)
 * andresmujica waves mrooney
<hggdh> so, did we start already?
<andresmujica> just waiting for quorum:
<andresmujica> let's start then
<andresmujica> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:08. The chair is andresmujica.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<andresmujica> we stil have some topics here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting
<andresmujica> [TOPIC] LoCo Bug Jams -- bcurtiswx
<MootBot> New Topic:  LoCo Bug Jams -- bcurtiswx
<hggdh> hum. bcurtiswx is MIA...
<andresmujica> there's the Ubuntu Global Jam now.. so i'm supposing we would particpate there...
<hggdh> yes indeed.
<hggdh> For those of us living in a LoCo area, we should try to be present
<andresmujica> should we make some previous irc classrooms for that??
<hggdh> bdmurray, ^^?
<bdmurray> I'm not sure I understand the question
<hggdh> I guess is should we try to schedule a classroom for triaging before the GBJ?
<andresmujica> i mean, maybe we can give a classroom session of bug triaging in order to help newcomers with the event..
<bdmurray> Yes, that sounds like a great idea
<andresmujica> anyone wants to volunteer?
<hggdh> I can help, but I am not sure I will have the time to do it alone
<hggdh> (not right now)
<andresmujica> hmm how much time is left before the UGJ?
<charlie-tca__> I can't really do it at this time
<andresmujica> hmm 2th -4th October...
<andresmujica> we've got some time.. so we can wait.. maybe in August / September we can do something about it... don't you think?
<hggdh> October... so we could try to get it done in September (to be near, and get the new triagers still fresh on memory)
<hggdh> heh
<andresmujica> yeap!
<andresmujica> ok..
<andresmujica> i'll try to make one in spanish..
<andresmujica> ok. so let's check the other topic.
<andresmujica> [TOPIC] BugSquad new members orientation -- tlcoffee
<MootBot> New Topic:  BugSquad new members orientation -- tlcoffee
<hggdh> another one MIA...
<andresmujica> i don't think tlcoffe is around here.. however this is like the mentorship program for new bugsquad members..
<hggdh> I have been doing something like that, in an un-official way, for quite some time
<hggdh> I think some new triagers get, er, shy on asking questions in the open, and would rather use PVT
<andresmujica> :)
<hggdh> My view is we should try, whenever possible, to have the doubts answered in the open, but we should make clear we do accept PVT questions
<mrooney> is this related at all to bugcontrol specialization, where a new bugsquad member might be interested in something specific and we want to hook them up with the right mentor?
<hggdh> mrooney, it may well be.
<bdmurray> pedro is looking at setting up a mentoring program
<bdmurray> I believe that the two are related yes
<hggdh> hum. Since pedro is out right now, I propose we ask him for an update later
<andresmujica> ok we'll wait for news about it.. i believe is really important
<hggdh> I agree. I remember, when I started, I was stepping on eggs
<andresmujica> ok.
<mrooney> sorry, gdm likes to randomly restart in karmic :)
<andresmujica> the next topic we've got is
<andresmujica> [TOPIC] Triaging versus Bug Fixing/Closing in Karmic -- Andrew Starr
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triaging versus Bug Fixing/Closing in Karmic -- Andrew Starr
<hggdh> and I had a real bad experience with a developer
<andresmujica> mrooney: yeapp. iÂ´m trying to debug that but is hard..
<andresmujica> hggdh: sorry.. .. go on..
<hggdh> Well. Andrew is also missing. May I propose that we ask not only for a topic, but also for a short explanation on what is intended?
<bdmurray> that sounds fair to me
<andresmujica> yeap.. that one i don't have a clue.. it can as long as we want to...
<andresmujica> it can be.. sorry
<hggdh> OK. Let's just pass it on, and update the wiki. I have no clue on what Andrew intended here
<andresmujica> [TOPIC] Open Discussions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussions
<hggdh> I have one
<hggdh> bdmurray, sent out an email (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2009-July/001505.html) asking for help on apport hools
<hggdh> hooks
<hggdh> This is something that most of us would be able to do
<hggdh> I would really like to see more apport hook coverage. I have started with an Evolution one, currently under review
<hggdh> I also wrote some small hacks to work on existing apport bugs, with help from a list Brian provided me
<hggdh> Anyone volunteers?
 * mrooney looks
<mrooney> I could try to help with a few, is the idea to talk to a dev and figure out what information is valuable?
<mrooney> what is the process for figuring out what to include
<bdmurray> or looking at upstream bugtrackers, existing bug reports
<bdmurray> for the compiz one I wrote I looked at the DebuggingCompiz page
<mrooney> I see, ok, makes sense
<hggdh> for the record, the hacks and the proposed Evo hook is at bug 391623
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 391623 in evolution "apport hook for Evolution" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/391623
<bdmurray> I think sbeattie did the same thing for gnome-power-manager and a script included with that  package
<mrooney> okay cool, I'll  set a goal for 1 a week
<hggdh> one thing Brian and I were working on is on sanitising backtraces, but this depends on an enhancement on apport. This should be considered when applicable
<sbeattie> mrooney: I looked at the debugging page for gnome-power-manager as well as the debian bug reporting script in /usr/share/bug/gnome-power-manager/script
<bdmurray> One could also look in '/usr/share/bug/' for information to include for a specific package
<hggdh> mrooney, also, the hook will have to be officially proposed, and will go through a review by the maintainers
<mrooney> makes sense!
<andresmujica> ok.
<andresmujica> anything else we want to discuss?
<mrooney> I had a quick one
<mrooney> there was a bug filed for eeebotu in #ubuntu-bugs-announce that it shouldn't show Invalid bugs, I wondered what a consensus was on that
<mrooney> it was discussed briefly in that channel
<mrooney> I always thought seeing newly Invalidated bugs was interesting personally, sometimes people did it by mistake
<hggdh> yes, Ampelbein filed it.
<charlie-tca__> I find seeing them useful myself
<bdmurray> I don't hang out in the channel much but agree
<hggdh> but what a bout Triaged ones?
<charlie-tca__> Triaged to Invalid?
<mrooney> no I think hggdh meant newly filed bugs immediately set to triaged
<hggdh> do triaged (but otherwise new) bugs appear on -announce?
<mrooney> yeah they do
<mrooney> the only stipulation is that they are newly filed
<hggdh> should we keep them in the list?
<mrooney> I could see that hiding Triaged bugs makes sense
<hggdh> +1
<bdmurray> I think those are more important for bug control to look at to ensure they are addressed
<bdmurray> however maybe that should happen in a different channel
<mrooney> yeah that should ideally be any bug set to triaged
<mrooney> a newly filed bug that is triaged is probably done so by a developer as a workflow item
<hggdh> hum. What about different channels with different bug status?
<bdmurray> ah, yes
<bdmurray> I think that would be really useful
<mrooney> yeah that would be cool but is a larger topic, I wanted to make eeebotu look at all touched bugs and allow for that but never had the time
<andresmujica> +1
<bdmurray> at least for Confirmed, Triaged, High and Critical
<hggdh> yes
<mrooney> yeah that would be cool definiteily
<hggdh> mrooney, let's work on it?
<mrooney> I don't think it would be too much work, sounds good
<mrooney> hggdh: I'll work with you on deploying a new eeebotu with the two bugs addressed as well as that
<hggdh> mrooney, roger wilco
<andresmujica> great!
<andresmujica> so if there's nothing else...
<bdmurray> Is anybody using the firefox extension?
<hggdh> bdmurray, I am
<micahg> the LP improvements?
<bdmurray> Yeah
<hggdh> but I cannot get the teams icons to show
 * micahg is
<andresmujica> which one.. ?  i've missed that one...
<bdmurray> I was planning on making a larger announcement soon
<bdmurray> hggdh: team icons were a launchpad bug, now its a script bug
<bdmurray> but I plan on fixing that this week then announce if it is working well
<hggdh> heh
<hggdh> and update the package?
<bdmurray> "it" being the extension as a whole
<bdmurray> yes
<hggdh> cool
<hggdh> andresmujica, Brian package the LP greasemonkey scripts
<andresmujica> i'm using the GM script..
<hggdh> andresmujica, see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-qa/2009-June/000488.html
<bdmurray> I've made a firefox extension available as a ppa package that collects all of the greasemonkey scripts to allow for easier updates
<andresmujica> cool... gonna test it..
<andresmujica> ok,
<mrooney> okay, I must head to work, I'll check the logs to read the rest, bye for now everyone :)
<andresmujica> so the next meeting august 11th ?
<hggdh> yes, me guesses
<andresmujica> ok..
<bdmurray> thanks andresmujica!
<andresmujica> i'll update the wiki just after the meeting, if not it would be forgotten..
<andresmujica> thanks to you!
<hggdh> thank you for chairing, andresmujica
<andresmujica> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:53.
<bjf> roll call
 * jjohansen here
 * ogasawara_ waves
 * manjo waves
 * amitk waves
 * smb warps in
 * sconklin checks in
 * cking too
<lieb> yo
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> this is going to be a bit longer than usual we've added a few things to the agenda
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: "ogasawara to push the hsdb scripts to the buildscripts git repository"
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: "ogasawara to push the hsdb scripts to the buildscripts git repository"
<ogasawara> I sent an email to the kernel team ml noting where the scripts can currently be found.  We're actually going to get them pushed to a central hwdb project repo in lp instead so others can easily contribute.
 * pgraner is here
 * apw zones in
<bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<bjf> Who wants to handle this? ogasawara?
 * apw hadn't seen that one on the list.
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<apw> i can talk to regression-potentials
 * ball is with Ubuntu-Chicago <- for the record
<ogasawara> release meeting bugs, rc milestoned bugs and release targeted bugs are listed at that link
<apw> we have a number of regressions coming in on the 2.6.31-rc1 based kernels, but they look mostly to be being fixed by the latest kernels
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling
<ogasawara> Kernel Arsenal scripts for New, Incomplete, Confirmed, and Triaged bugs have already been written and merged into the arsenal-devel bzr tree.  I've started running these manually and hope to post some stats next week regarding the impact.
 * apw has seen some bugs beiing progressed by them, so far so good
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop
<ogasawara> As noted earlier, the updated scripts will be pushed to a central repo and a README doc created.  Newly added features include being able to mine driver stats and retrieving a lists of bugs related to hw.  We're still working on getting apport to be able to link a bug to a hw profile when the bug is submitted.  Checkbox needs to store the hw profile submission key somwhere for apport to reference it.  See bug 379393 for
<ogasawara> more info.  ETA for checkbox fix is karmic-alpha3.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 379393 in checkbox "add checkbox submission reference" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/379393
<bjf> anything on kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop?
<ogasawara> bjf: that's it for now
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review
<apw> All new configuration options applied to the kernel.  Review of existing options ongoing.
<apw> We need to check for common options insanly set, and likely that will be it.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms
<apw> KMS for Intel i915 enabled by default userspace drivers are KMS enabled, testing so far is good generally.  KMS for ATI Radeon is now in the kernel with 2.6.31-rc based kernels, userspace is not yet supporting it so it is disabled by default.  KMS for Nouveau is not likely to make the Karmic kernel, updated kernels in preparation to allow further testing.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts
<rtg> in progress
<pgraner> rtg: how does it look initially?
<rtg> ok for the server, there are some meta messes to cleanup
<pgraner> rtg: interesting, I would have expected much more fallout
<rtg> i've tabled work on it for the last week or so. i'll get back on it full time next werek
<pgraner> rtg: ack
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code
<smb> ongoing too
<smb> dmraid and compcache were updated recently
<apw> ndiswrapper was updated also
<manjo> and sndbtsco was removed
<smb> lenovo-sl is being looked after
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android
<bjf> this one isn't getting as much love right now for 2 reasons:
<bjf> 1. Bryan has been given a new priority to help me with Jaunty+imx51 patches for babbage 2
<bjf> 2. He is sick right now so he's moving a little slowly
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session
<rtg> moot point, isn't it?
<rtg> its done
<pgraner> did we complete all decisions, that is are they implemented or will be?
<apw> basically this one is done, we have a strand on checking new options which should be covered by the config review
<bjf> I'ts listed as "Started" on the status page
<bjf> should it be removed from the agenda?
<apw> yep, it was unclear if we could close it till the kernel was 2.6.31, as there is some stuff about configs
<apw> i propose we move that to the configs review and close it
<pgraner> bjf: yep, lets call it complete
<pgraner> apw: can you update the status page to reflect?
<apw> ack
<bjf> [ACTION] (bjf) Remove kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session from agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (bjf) Remove kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session from agenda
<bjf> [ACTION] (apw) update status page for kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (apw) update status page for kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers
<apw> that one as far as i know it is on hold
<rtg> no progress, everyone is too busy with other things
<apw> its not a release blocker
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-ssd
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-ssd
<cking> there is nothing kernel related that can be worked on for now; it's all userspace installer related, e.g. SSD partition alignment needs tweaking in the installer - this probably needs cjwatson attention
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume
<manjo> updated the spec page with Implementation design details.
<manjo> Posted a poll on ubuntuform & used micro-blogging  to get the word out on KMS on karmic & Jaunty. I got a few responds saying KMS works well for suspend/resume.
<manjo> Spent some time looking at Jaunty suspend/resume bugs. Manual triage of these bugs not practical.
<cjwatson> cking: this is the first I've heard of this spec - somebody should mail me or something with what we're supposed to do
<pgraner> manjo: you want to do the Atlanta Linux Fest with some live sticks for testing?
<cking> cjwatson: will do.
<pgraner> cjwatson: Keybuck was in on it
<cking> ah. my mistake
<manjo> pgraner, sure I emailed you earliler last week
<pgraner> cjwatson: we will get you updated tho
<cjwatson> well, Keybuk doesn't typically hack on the installer
<cjwatson> though obviously he's welcome to
<pgraner> manjo: I know I'm just getting out in the open :-)
<pgraner> cjwatson: he was the foundations rep in the meeting I was assuming he was taking that back to the team
<cjwatson> Keybuk: ^-
<cjwatson> anyway, I've heard of it now; with this notice I don't know what I can promise yet though
<pgraner> cjwatson: ack
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi
<manjo> bjf, that is all about that blue print
<bjf> wifi anyone?
<rtg> apw updated it yesterday
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt
<apw> i pushed in the discussion.  i don't think its really got going yet.  we need to review what we are planning there
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt
<amitk> NOP since turning on snd-hda-intel powersave. Also waiting for a somewhat stable kernel/configs to start measurements on.
<amitk> i guess some measurements can be done now in tandem with suspend/resume measurements
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-flavours
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-flavours
<rtg> done
<pgraner> bjf: done
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-config-rework
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-config-rework
<amitk> done
<rtg> done
<apw> Config system rebuilt to introduce a top level configuration file for completely common options.   Merging enhanced to allow merging of non-existent options producing much more common options.  Ports kernels split off into a separate hierarchy to simplify updates.
<apw> This blueprint is complete.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: AppArmor
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: AppArmor
<jjohansen> in regression testing
<jjohansen> its passing about 95% of the tests right now
<pgraner> jjohansen: when can we expect to see it in a ubuntu kernel?
<jjohansen> we can merge anytime
<pgraner> jjohansen: might need to issue a pull request so apw can pick it up
<jjohansen> okay
<apw> jjohansen, yep when you are ready to have it in we can suck it up
<apw> and then turn it on when you say 'go'
<jjohansen> okay, I'll do a pull request today
<bjf> [ACTION] jjohansen to issue AA pull request
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jjohansen to issue AA pull request
<apw> assuming thats last thing i'll get with you in the morning to confirm configs etc for it
<jjohansen> sounds good
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale
<bjf> I'm now working on getting Jaunty booting on B2 and that is going very well
<bjf> I'm continuing to apply freescale patches, and have Jaunty booting on B2 now
<amitk> I'm debugging the ARM boot code to see why the 2.6.31 kernel won't boot on the Babbage boards
<amitk> There is a rather large delta/cleanup in the common arm arch code in .30 and .31 that needs to be reviewed
<cking> amitk: any ideas why it's not working?
<amitk> the machine ID issue turned out to be a red herring
<amitk> I suspect some changes in MM/IO config code
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Reintegrate Ports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Reintegrate Ports
<apw> The ports architectures have been reintegrated.  All but sparc are now building.  We are expecting updates this week for sparc to fix this.
<apw> This activity is now complete.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Grub2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Grub2
<cking> Not aware of any show stopping issues.
<apw> i think our involvement with grub is done?  it is now the default, testing has been majority positive
<bjf> I can remove this from the agenda?
<cking> reckon so.
<apw> i believe so
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Kernel Msg Clean up at boot
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Kernel Msg Clean up at boot
<rtg> no progress
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
<apw> it should be a small job, so not concerned for
<smb> Ok first the summary
<smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.77 (security, released)
<smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.55 (security, released)
<smb>             2.6.24-24.54 (proposed)[25] with 2/11 verifications GONE!!!
<smb>             2.6.24-24.56 (proposed+security, upload pending)
<smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.35 (security, released)
<smb>             2.6.27-14.34 (proposed)[25] 3/24 verifications
<smb>             2.6.27-14.36 (proposed+security, upload pending)
<smb>             LRM 2.6.27-14.20 (proposed)[25] with 1/2 verifications.
<rtg> apw, besides, it didn't make much sense until 2.6.31 anyways
<smb>             Need to run wl testing on Intrepid, too.
<smb> * Jaunty:   2.6.28-13.45 (security, released)
<smb>             2.6.28-14.46 (proposed, upload pending)
<smb>             LRM 2.6.28-14.18 (proposed, upload pending)
<smb>             LBM 2.6.28-14.15 (proposed, upload pending)
<smb>             LRM and LBM are rebuilds with bumped ABI
<smb> Some detail to it
<smb> The old Hardy proposed seems to be MIA, so it will need the security+proposed upload to get into live again
<smb> The next Jaunty proposed scares the sru team as it contains the last upstram stable import
<smb> I hope it gets accepted anyways
<smb> At least it runs for me on desktop, laptop and netbook
<smb> That's all so far
<sbeattie> smb: is the new hardy-proposed kernel intended to make it into 8.04.3?
<bjf> I'm gong to have a large wad of imx51 patches that will go into Jaunty SRU, smb and I have discussed this and they will go onto a topic branch
<smb> sbeattie, It would be good if it did. Not sure about the timeings for that (8.04.3 still open?)
<sbeattie> 8.04.3 is supposed to come out this week, but the daily isos were being generatd off of the old -proposed kernel.
<apw> diary says thrusday for that
<smb> apw, Last one
<apw> slipped to 7/9
<apw> sbeattie, is that -proposed at .54 or the -security kernel at .55
<smb> sbeattie, So at least the new proposed should get into updates soon as the current security is based on the old updates kernel and the old proposed did not include security
<smb> apw, yes the old proposed was .54
<smb> security was .55 but based on .53
<smb> The kernel now waiting for accept is .56 including both
<sbeattie> smb: let's take it up with slangasek
<smb> sbeattie, ping me too, to join you
<bjf> are we done with this topic?
<sbeattie> okay
<smb> bjf, done
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic
<apw> The karmic kernel is now rebased to 2.6.31-rc2 (2.6.31-2.16).  This seems to resolve a number of serious issues from the previous 2.6.31-rc1 based kernels.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: ARM
<bjf> already covered
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Netbook
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Netbook
<sconklin> I have finished review of all the patches from the old netbook-lpia repo. A couple were upstreamed. The rest were backports or are obsolete. I am declaring that effort to be finished.
<apw> we released a jaunty netbook kernel for testing by oem
<sconklin> No new work on Jaunty by me
<apw> be worth chasing them up to see how that kernels worked out
<sconklin> I'd like to know that they've at least tried it
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions
<ogasawara> I added 4 regression-potential bugs and 1 regression-release bug to the list this week.  apw has already fixed one of the regression-potential bugs and he and smb are already assigned to the others.
<ogasawara> Bug day stats for today look good so far:
<ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Kernel Devs
<ogasawara> Fix Released    2 (â2)
<ogasawara> Fix Committed   0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Won't Fix   2 (â2)
<ogasawara> Invalid 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (â0)
<smb> the three remaining might be solved by rc2
<ogasawara> In Progress 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Incomplete  52 (â52)
<ogasawara> Triaged 26 (â5)
<ogasawara> Confirmed   29 (â6)
<ogasawara> New 107 (â47)
<ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Community
<ogasawara> Fix Released    0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Fix Committed   1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Won't Fix   1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Invalid 0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (â0)
<ogasawara> In Progress 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Incomplete  4 (â4)
<ogasawara> Triaged 42 (â8)
<ogasawara> Confirmed   0 (â0)
<ogasawara> New 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> smb: I was thinking that too
<ogasawara> I also personally emailed the guys who sent introductory emails to the kernel team mailing list to see if they'd want to help out.  Real life seems to get in the way but hopefully I can work with them to tackle a few bugs on the list today or sometime later this week.
<ogasawara> bjf: done
<apw> ogasawara, good stuff, a gentle intro is worth it
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<jjohansen> union mounts?
<apw> they are looking dubious, seems there are some reworks in there
<apw> (vf union mounts, making 2.6.31 timeframe)
<apw> we need to discuss our fallback position, which may well be using fuse for the release
<apw> that can be discussed nearer the release
<cking> w/o any risk?
<apw> cking, ?
<cking> if there is no working fallback, it's cutting it close to the release. Or maybe I misunderstood
<apw> no we are using fuse now as our fill in for live cd's
<apw> so no work would be needed to use that for final.  we need to confirm its acceptable of course
<cking> OK. Thanks - I understand now.
<apw> i'll add union mounts to the release status
<apw> there is also devtmpfs which is looking very interesting for recovery
<apw> and we may be asked to carry it for karmic, just to keep it in mind
<bjf> Anyone else have anything?
<bjf> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair Selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair Selection
 * apw suggests we have a rota, so its easy to chose
<manjo> yes
<bjf> alphabetical?
<apw> heh ... anything
<cking> OK, but note I may be zipping off to have an op at a drop of a hat
<smb> wfm
<apw> ack
<bjf> if cking unavailable I'll cover for him
<apw> ok so i thikn that makes it me for next week
<rtg> apw, amitk comes before andy
<apw> yay
<amitk> I'll do it
<bjf> a plan!   That's All Folks!!
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:49.
<amitk> bjf: please mail me the actions
 * ball needs to attend beginners' meetings
<Ddorda> when will the membership meeting begin..?
<adiroiban> after mj is burried :)
<Ddorda> :×
<Ddorda> :D
<Ddorda> hey adiroiban, long timr no see :P
<adiroiban> :)
<adiroiban> hi
<czajkowski> Ddorda: there is one at 9pm tonight
<Ddorda> 9pm..? here it's 9:48 atm.. lol
<Ddorda> you mean more 10 minutes?
<czajkowski> well it's 19:49 here
<czajkowski> popey: *ping*
<adiroiban> i think that all community meetings for today were postponed
<czajkowski> popey: is there a membership meeting tonight and if so what toe
<Ddorda> hey RockyRoad :D
<popey> hi czajkowski
<popey> what does the wiki say?
<heartsmagic> hello
<popey> The EMEA membership board meets every first tuesday of the month at 20:00 UTC. The next meeting is scheduled for July 7th 2009, 20:00 UTC and and will be held in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net.
<popey> looks good
<RockyRoad> hi Ddorda
 * popey pokes Seveas stgraber Pricey ..
<czajkowski> popey: just wondered as somone said some meetings were postponed and Ddorda was wondering
<czajkowski> Ddorda: there you go 20:00UTC
 * czajkowski goes back to sleep
<popey> which is in 1 hour and 5 mins :)
<popey> 1 hour and 4 mins
<popey> ish
<heartsmagic> has meeting started?
<Ddorda> popey: the meeting is in 1 hour?
<stgraber> I'm sort of around (half in another meeting)
<czajkowski> Ddorda: yes
<popey> stgraber: its not for another hour
<heartsmagic> ok one hour later
<Ddorda> czajkowski: thanks
<RockyRoad> hi czajkowski :)
<stgraber> popey: fine, will be there then
<jester-> hi
<MTecknology> hi
<shane_fagan> hi
<Deindre> hi
<elleuca> hi
<artir> hi
<czajkowski> Aloha
<Ddorda> hey. i'm back for the meeting
<MTecknology> popey: you ready?
 * stgraber waves
 * forumsmatthew waves back
<popey> o/
<MTecknology> popey: meeting is late
<popey> thanks for the info
<MTecknology> must start right this very second!
<MTecknology> :P
<popey> Seveas, stgraber, Pricey...
 * artir is away for dinnar. brb in some minutes
<Seveas> yo
<popey> evening
<popey> no phanatic..
<Seveas> Pricey, wake up!
<Seveas> :)
<popey> no markvandenborre
<popey> Pricey has a couple of emergencies at work
<Seveas> k
<popey> ok, stgraber / Seveas / forumsmatthew and me is enough
<Seveas> shall we start with the 4 of us?
<forumsmatthew> +1
<popey> yup
<Seveas> excellent. Consider the meeting started then
<Seveas> first candidate is shane_fagan, please introduce yourself to us Shane
<shane_fagan> Im kind of a little helper in a lot of areas. I admin http://ubuntu-ie.org/ . Im the leader of the Irish translations team for about 2 months now and im trying to get some interest in that. I fixed a few bugs in ubuntu's documentation recently, I test new releases of ubuntu (im using 9.10 at the moment), a little bit of advocacy and answer questions on launchpad and IRC if they have any problems there that I can help with
<shane_fagan> . I also help out with zeitgeist that will more than likely be included in ubuntu at some stage, I do documentation for zeitgeist and I sorted out one cool feature for developers, that lists out the development work they were doing recently. So I do a lot in many different areas both upstream and in ubuntu itself.
<Seveas> other candidates: please prepare a 3-line introduction to paste in the channel when it is your turn.
<shane_fagan> Oh sorry that was a little long
 * popey reads wiki pages and launchpad profile
<Seveas> is the irish cheering squad available to applaud shane_fagan ?
<shane_fagan> A few
<shane_fagan> Some are away at guadec etc
 * forumsmatthew invites the friends of Shane to speak up
<RockyRoad> yep
<czajkowski> shane_fagan: is a great guyu for the Irish LoCo he helps where he can on the site when myself and mean-machine are busy and is always in the channel to help out
<czajkowski> He has taken on the role of promoting the Irish translations and knows a lotta work needs to be done with it
<czajkowski> He's a great assest to the Irish LoCo.
<ebel> Yeah
<ebel> He's been doing loads on launchpad as you can see from his profile
<popey> I see lots of launchpad answers activity, does that take up much of your time shane_fagan ?
<shane_fagan> Ah a little but its not too hard
<shane_fagan> I do it just because its an easy way to get involved
<ebel> and he's taken upon the task of doign irish translations, which no-one else was doing
<popey> :)
<popey> I am going to +1 based on launchpad answers, and cheers from other members of the Irish LoCo
<forumsmatthew> I'm very pleased. You have a lot going for you and seem to be a real benefit to the community.
<forumsmatthew> I'm +1
<Seveas> +1
<forumsmatthew> and happy birthday
<shane_fagan> Thanks
<shane_fagan> :)
<Seveas> stgraber, ?
<RockyRoad> happy birthday shane :)
<stgraber> +1
<Seveas> that's +4, happy birthday and welcome aboard!
<shane_fagan> Thanks guys :)
<Seveas> Ddorda, you're up
<czajkowski> shane_fagan: well done
<forumsmatthew> congratulations!
<Ddorda> okay.
<ebel> congrats shane_fagan
<Ddorda> I'm very active on the Israeli LoCo. I'm a Hebrew translator and give support on out LoCo forums. on the last weeks i was very active on Ubuntu-drupal project too, while building out new Loco website.
<Ddorda> I love being active. I have the time and I love open-source, so why not :D
<artir> back
<RockyRoad> \o/
<forumsmatthew> I see lots of translation work and your testimonials look good
<MTecknology> Ddorda has been very helpful with #ubuntu-drupal. He's helped us with styles for RTL languages and has been helping in the channel and on launchpad. He's already been very helpful doing things I can't. The thing I've liked most about him is his interest in promoting FOSS.
<Seveas> Ddorda, your translation activity, which I would consider an important part of your application only really started about a month ago with some sporadic things before that
<Seveas> and as you say your drupal involvement is fairly recent too
<forumsmatthew> tell us about the sub distribution you mention on your wiki page
<popey> brb
<Seveas> Thus I'm inclined to go for -1, as I like to see more sustained contributions
<MTecknology> Seveas: Ddorda has been helping for a few months now
<Ddorda> forumsmatthew: i'm starting a new distribution
<Ddorda> basted on the Islamic one
<Pricey> Sorry for rubbish reliability.
<Pricey> Ddorda: What are your aims for that?
<Ddorda> that one is going to be for the religion Jewish, cause most of them are real poor, and they need many specific application
<forumsmatthew> Seveas, I do see translations going back to Sept 2008, although you are right that they became far more regular and common just a month ago
<Ddorda> well, i thought of the idea making it. it's a real new project so it doesn;t have anything yet
<Seveas> Ddorda, just curious, which applications would that be? I know that the christian edition includes bible software but I know of no equivalents for a jewish distro.
<Pricey> Ddorda: You'd probably do best to have a real reasnoing for putting huge work into maintaining a project like that.
<MTecknology> Seveas: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/~ddorda/+translations?start=100&batch=50
<Ddorda> Seveas: prayers clock for example
<Ddorda> or an app to close the computer when Saturday comes
<Ddorda> and a bible program
<forumsmatthew> What I'm seeing is a really good start, but I think Seveas has a point, that there hasn't yet been a sustained contribution over time.
<forumsmatthew> There have been sporatic contributions over time, but consistent contributions started last month
<Ddorda> forumsmatthew: i'm active on ubuntu israel forums about a year
<popey> back
<MTecknology> His translation efforts have been going on for a year now
<forumsmatthew> cool. do you have a link to your forum profile?
<Pricey> MTecknology: but sporadic?
<Ddorda> forumsmatthew: one minute
<Ddorda> http://www.ubuntu-il.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=68
<forumsmatthew> bummer. I can't view it without being logged in
<aantn> Ddorda: very cool idea about creating a jewish distribution of ubuntu
<Ddorda> forumsmatthew: i will tell what's in it..?
<aantn> Ddorda: are you aiming at charedim or datim leumim?
<aantn> (ultra-orthodox or modern orthodox jews, for the rest of you)
<MTecknology> He's been working on the new website for the israel team - ubuntu-il.com/site/new
<Ddorda> aantn: i thought of trying to find something they both will like
<forumsmatthew> I would like to see a join date, posts, categories (mostly chat, or helping other users with problems), stuff like that
<forumsmatthew> it would be better to have other forum users testify on those stats and activities
<Seveas> We need to keep track of time. Can I please ask for a vote?
<Ddorda> forumsmatthew: i have joing about a year and half ago, but the forums crashed
<Pricey> I'm agreeing with Seveas for the time being. -1
<Ddorda> so the manager made another forums
<popey> I'm finding it difficult seeing a sustained contribution
<Ddorda> so it's not my real joining date
<aantn> Ddorda: okay, cool
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to have to -1 for now, but with the hope that in about 6 months or so you will come back with more consistent activity to show during that time
<Seveas> popey, stgraber ?
<popey> agreed, -1
<stgraber> I'd also like seeing you in a few months with even more contributions to Ubuntu, so -1 for me too
<Pricey> Ddorda: Please don't rush into this 'new distribution' without working out if it is really needed.
<Pricey> (and then what is required of it)
<Seveas> ok. Ddorda, as we said, you are doing good work, but we are also looking for documented sustained contributions. So please keep on going and come back in a few months
<Seveas> Deindre, you're up next
<Deindre> ok
<Ddorda> Seveas: okay. thanks...
<Pricey> Very sorry, running :S
<Deindre> Hi! I'm Flavia Weisghizzi, I'm from Italy and I'm a journalist and I'm Ubuntu-it media relation coordinator. I entered Italian Community about 2 years and half ago, and I've tried to do my best in every field in which my language skills could be useful: localization, web and marketing. My mainly objective and care is spread Ubuntu spirit beyond trade magazines through TV, radio and traditional media.
<Deindre>  This is my wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Flavia and this is my Lp profile https://launchpad.net/~flavia-weisghizzi
<forumsmatthew> you have wonderful testimonials!
<popey> yeah
<Deindre> thank you
<Deindre> My work is very hidden, because I often work with mail or by phone with journalist
<Seveas> Deindre, are you active on the italian and/or global forums? If so, can you give us a link to your forum profile(s)?
<forumsmatthew> the press releases and such on the Media Relations page look good
<Deindre> Seveas: I have a profile on Italian forum, but isn't much releavant probably
<Deindre> but this is: http://forum.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?action=profile
<forumsmatthew> do you still coordinate the work of the media relations team?
<Deindre> yes of course
<Seveas> Deindre, what's your userid? The link you sent is a link-to-your-own-profile thing :)
<Deindre> we gather the work of our team in a media web page   http://www.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?page=media
<forumsmatthew> okay, looking at that, and seeing the number of Italian language media outlets that have received and run items based on the team's press releases is impressive
<Deindre> and to wiki one :    	 	 	 	 	 	   http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoPromozione/UbuntuUfficioStampa/Comunicati
<popey> http://www.ubuntu-it.org/contenuti/u-weekly.shtml are these no longer translated or are they somewhere else Deindre ?
<forumsmatthew> this one is what I was looking at http://www.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?page=media
<Deindre> Seveas: sorry, this is my profile http://forum.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?action=profile;u=23500
<Deindre> forumsmatthew: yes that is right
<Seveas> +1 from me based on contributions in a difficult area, good testimonials and long term activity
<Deindre> popey: no no, the articles gather in media pages are written by italian newspapers
<popey> ahh
<forumsmatthew> I feel very good giving a +1
<Deindre> popey: we don't translate it all, we write international and local news
<stgraber> +1 too
<popey> oh, even better :)
<popey> +1
<Seveas> that's +4, and with Pricey having run away to another disaster that means welcome aboard!
<popey> congratulations Deindre keep up the great work
<Seveas> elleuca, you're next and last on the list
<Deindre> thank you!!!!
<forumsmatthew> congratulations!
<shane_fagan> Congrats
<Gwaihir> congrats!
<popey> \o/ more female ubuntu members
<elleuca> here I'm
<elleuca> I switched to Ubuntu 5 year ago, but a was yet a GNU/Linux - 10 years next autumn, let's party :) - user and a GNOME translator and contributor. My current official role is coordinate the Italian GNOME Team and work on translations, but I also enjoy myself testing development stuff, providing patches, and help Italian Ubuntu users to solve their issues.
<elleuca> http://launchpad.net/~elle.uca
<elleuca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucaFerretti/
<Seveas> elleuca, 5 years ago ubuntu did not exist :)
<elleuca> hmmm
<popey> Its funny how many people put that on their wiki pages :)
<elleuca> wopps
<elleuca> 4, maybe?
<forumsmatthew> Um, wasn't April 2004 more than 5 years ago? :)
<popey> Ok, this is a very easy +1 for me, _massive_ translation effort over a sustained period, with great testimonials.
<popey> forumsmatthew: october 2004 wasnt :)
<popey> picky picky picky
<forumsmatthew> Agreed, I've been looking through everything. +1
<forumsmatthew> popey, doh!
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, in april 2004 ubuntu did not exist. i believe it was called no-name-yet until august
<forumsmatthew> it was that 2009-2004 thing that threw me
<Seveas> but yeah, +1 for elleuca. Yay for upstreams
<popey> aaanyway
<stgraber> +1
<elleuca> ok, my memory is falling down, most probably it was october 2005
<popey> thats 4!
<forumsmatthew> congratulations!
<elleuca> thank you
<Gwaihir> congrats! :)
<shane_fagan> Congrats
<popey> well done elleuca keep up the fantastic effort!
<Deindre> congrats
<Seveas> list empty. meeting done
<Deindre> thank you for all
<forumsmatthew> thanks, everyone!
<Seveas> next meeting august 4th, 20:00
<elleuca> thanks, everyone
<Seveas> my eyes are killing me so I'm out. Congratulations new members!
<popey> hah, Seveas you beat me to ~ubuntumembers :)
<popey> "Luca Ferretti (elle.uca) is already a member of Ubuntu Members."
<Seveas> doing that during the meeting now so I don't forget :)
<popey> i thought the same thing ;)
<Ddorda> when will be the next ubuntu memership meeting?
<elleuca> (22:43:53) Seveas: next meeting august 4th, 20:00
<Ddorda> elleuca: thanks...
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra> moo
<dholbach> hola
<nhandler> o/
 * NCommander blinks
<NCommander> people?
<paulliu> hi
<ogra> hmm
<NCommander> !calendar
<ubottu> calendar is at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> that's handy
<nhandler> NCommander: Community Council Meeting
 * stgraber waves
<NCommander> ugh
<ogra> nhandler, bad
<NCommander> Veyr bad
<ogra> :)
<dholbach> you guys have a meeting right now?
<ogra> (fro NCommander at least)
<NCommander> dholbach, sorta
<NCommander> dholbach, I kinda set the time wrong for the meeting today for us. It was technically supposed to be at 13:00UTC
<dholbach> keep going, there might be some people a bit late or are you just starting?
<NCommander> dholbach, but I sent the time as 21:00
<NCommander> *cough*
<ogra> dholbach, we would start now
<dholbach> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event -> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event -> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<ogra> dholbach, NCommander messed up the time
<dholbach> oops
<NCommander> We can vacate to #ubuntu-mobile
<ogra> NCommander, lets go to #ubuntu-mobile
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:02.
<dholbach> hi sabdfl
<sabdfl> hola dholbach
<dholbach> mako just texted me and said he'd be a bit late
<dholbach> didn't hear back from mdke though
<dholbach> TechnoViking can't make it for sure
<nhandler> dholbach: Just out of curiosity, how is the CC handling mako's expired membership?
<dholbach> nhandler: that's one of the things we're going to talk about in just a bit
<nhandler> Great! I didn't see it on the agenda, which is why I asked
<dholbach> sabdfl: shall we dive right into it and I send Mako the log once he turns up or shall we wait? (I guess it might take another 15m for him - he's in Mexico somewhere)
<sabdfl> let's get going
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:05. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<sladen> mako was just disappearing off to lunch 45minutes ago, so (hopefully) should be back
<dholbach> so there's a bunch of topics on the agenda, I don't think we get around to doing all of them, we should cut them down now
<dholbach> the most pressing one to keep the CC running is re-staffing it
<dholbach> I guess the Wiki licensing can wait until the next meeting
<dholbach> the CoC review we can do if there's still time
<dholbach> sabdfl: does that sound reasonable?
<sladen> dholbach: that is kind of important, why is it not on the Agenda?
<dholbach> sladen: I did a review together with mako, somehow nobody put it up there
<dholbach> sladen: but if we do it in 2 weeks that should be fine too
<sabdfl> Karmic.
 * dholbach hugs sabdfl
<dholbach> sabdfl: does that sound OK? agenda-wise?
<sabdfl> dholbach: X crashed
<sabdfl> restaffing first
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> [TOPIC] restaffing the CC
<MootBot> New Topic:  restaffing the CC
<dholbach> the last time we were complete we were around 8 people
<dholbach> and decisions and meetings were a lot more fluent and regular :)
<dholbach> we have 4 people left on the CC: https://launchpad.net/~communitycouncil/+members
<dholbach> and four slots open
<dholbach> sabdfl: how do you want us to handle it? I think you have a few recommendations already
<sabdfl> in the past, we've aimed to stagger elections
<sabdfl> but that just makes the admin pile up
<sabdfl> i think it would be better to run a big election every year, or two
<dholbach> yes, it took me a bit to realise that :)
<sabdfl> that way, the whole community will be aware of it
<sabdfl> we can run a proper nomination process, i'll put forward candidates and we vote
<sabdfl> what do you think?
<dholbach> sabdfl: nomination process would be "everybody send an email to mark@ubuntu" and "we vote" means ~ubuntumembers polls?
<sabdfl> i would ask that you handle the collation, but yes
<czajkowski> totally new here, but could you put forward candidates say at a uds, and vote after that giving people time  to meet them or find out about them post an event like uds
<czajkowski> then do the emailing bit
<sabdfl> a good idea, yes
<dholbach> czajkowski: interesting you mention that - we did that for one of the last MC elections and while they were not real "platforms" people at least set up wiki pages and said what they thought was important to them in the community and so on
<sabdfl> not everyone comes to UDS, but it's useful nonetheless
<sladen> sounds fine, anything that is capable of quickly reboosting the numbers.  I vaguely remember last time that here was some confusion about whether people were expected to self-nominate, be proposed by others, or be invited by Mark
<sabdfl> sladen: any of the above
<czajkowski> that way introducing new people and not necessarily the same pople so you get to meet the people behind the group
<dholbach> so at least gave some insight and especially in a community of hundreds of ~ubuntumembers where you don't know everybody that makes sense
<sabdfl> we have always had amazing folks on the CC
<popey> tough act to follow :S
<sabdfl> but the organisation of candidates and votes has been poor
<nhandler> sabdfl: I think part of that is lack of publicizing votes in the past
<dholbach> nhandler: the results were available in LP, weren't they?
<nhandler> Most of the votes for other councils get an email sent out and possibly a blog post, that is all
<sabdfl> i think things like the regional membership boards give us a deeper sense of the talent pool for governance
<sabdfl> as do the various delegated councils
<nhandler> dholbach: The results are available, but based on those numbers, not many people are voting
<nhandler> I think that is due to them not being aware that a vote is going on
<sabdfl> i think having a vote of more candidates than seats would make for more charged elections
<dholbach> nhandler: ah, now I see what you mean
<sabdfl> ok, so coming to the present challenge...
<sabdfl> if we want a CC of 8, does that mean we need 12 candidates?
<nellery> is voting based on yes or no for each person or each person has a single vote?
<nhandler> sabdfl: That might be a bit too many to vote on in LP. Maybe the CC could narrow down the number of candidates after the nomination period is over
<sabdfl> nellery: we could do single transferable vote, for eg
<sabdfl> for a confirmation vote, you vote on each candidate separately
<nhandler> One thing we do not get with these elections are testimonials from other members like we get when people go for membership and stuff like that
<sabdfl> if you're electing a group, then STV makes more sense
<czajkowski> nhandler: that seems to work for the gnome foundation board
<sabdfl> so, 12 candidates. when do we want to run the vote? i'm assuming everyone who's on will stand again, and those who just expired will too
<dholbach> I guess we need 2 weeks time for nominations, 2 weeks time for asking people to put up their "platforms" or wiki pages which talk a bit about them 1 week for announce, 2 weeks for voting
<dholbach> ... or something
<sabdfl> ok, +1. anyone want different timing?
<nellery> with these "platforms" just be wiki pages?
<dholbach> (and a week in between to probably shortlist)
<nhandler> Are all nominated people going to be put on the LP poll?
<nhandler> Ah, that answers my question dholbach
<czajkowski> is there an ubuntu event on soon enough we could tie it in with , so more people will vote?
<dholbach> I think it would make sense to use LP's "mail team members" feature for that :-)
<dholbach> TATAAAA! :-)
<popey> hah
<sladen> sabdfl: so you're proposing to have all of the slots stand, not just the empty ones?
<nhandler> dholbach: Who would be notified? All ubuntumembers?
<dholbach> nhandler: yes, everybody who can vote :)
<heartsmagic> is it started?
<nhandler> dholbach: I also think *several* blog posts should be put on the Planet announcing the vote (and an email to one of the -announce lists as well)
<sabdfl> sladen: yes, if we are going to converge, and elect a group in one sot, we should do that
<dholbach> nhandler: that sounds good to me
<sladen> sabdfl: for a period of 24 months?
<nhandler> Also, you need to leave time for the CC to confirm all nominees are willing to serve on the CC
<dholbach> nhandler: yes
<sabdfl> sladen: 12 or 24, what do you think would be better?
<dholbach> sabdfl: is there a default expiry set in LP right now?
<sabdfl> yes, i think it's one year
<nhandler> It looks more like 2 years based on the dates sabdfl
<nellery> I think one would keep the members more fresh
<dholbach> 2 years sounds fine to me (with the expiry of the current members)
<heartsmagic> sorry for disturbing you but i am a member candidate, do i have to do someting for this meeting?
<dholbach> heartsmagic: the CC doesn't do membership approval anymore - please head to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<sabdfl> heartsmagic: nice nick, but no, this is the CC not a membership board
<popey> heartsmagic: i think you missed the emea membership earlier
<sladen> my personal preference would be 24 months  staggered 4 + 4  (same amount of hassle as 12 months x 8)
<sabdfl> sladen: twice the hassle
<sladen> both are twice the hassle of 24 months x8, yes
<sabdfl> ok, i'm going to XO this one - dholbach, will you announce the schedule as discussed above?
<dholbach> so to recap? 2 weeks time for nominations, some time for shortlisting, a week of confirmation, 2 weeks time for asking people to put up their "platforms" or wiki pages which talk a bit about them 1 week for announce, 2 weeks for voting, 24 months term length
<heartsmagic> missed it? when
<sabdfl> +1
<popey> heartsmagic: 20:00UTC
<dholbach> 1 from me too
<dholbach> [AGREED] CC Re-staffing: 2 weeks time for nominations, some time for shortlisting, a week of confirmation, 2 weeks time for asking people to put up their "platforms" or wiki pages which talk a bit about them 1 week for announce, 2 weeks for voting, 24 months term length - Daniel to announce the schedule
<MootBot> AGREED received:  CC Re-staffing: 2 weeks time for nominations, some time for shortlisting, a week of confirmation, 2 weeks time for asking people to put up their "platforms" or wiki pages which talk a bit about them 1 week for announce, 2 weeks for voting, 24 months term length - Daniel to announce the schedule
<heartsmagic> so, how can i learn my stuation now?
<sabdfl> thanks daniel
<sabdfl> heartsmagic: sshhhhh ;-)
<dholbach> heartsmagic: please head to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<dholbach> sabdfl: which topic you want to talk about next?
<sabdfl> CoC
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Code of Conduct Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Code of Conduct Review
<dholbach> so while Mako was in Berlin, we spent some hours revamping the Code of Conduct and fixing bugs that were reported with it
<dholbach> it now should be more general
<dholbach> the merge proposal is up here: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mako/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision/+merge/7341
<dholbach> This is the list of open bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct
<dholbach> I didn't receive too many comments about the proposal yet
<dholbach> we also added a rationale for all of the changes: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emako/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision/annotate/head%3A/rationale.txt
<heartsmagic> good night everybody
 * mako waves
<dholbach> hey mako
<mako> sorry i'm late. i was delayed getting in from the airport
<dholbach> mako: no worries :)
<ogra> mako !
<ogra> the busy man
<sabdfl> i'm still reading the rationale and changes
<sabdfl> but this is very good so far
 * dholbach high-fives mako
<mako> the diff is too big too be useful. the wdiff is better but still pretty big
<mako> mostly because of the you/we changes. hence the rationale document. if there are substantive changes not in the rationale document, that's a bug in the rationale. we tried to be comprehensive
<sabdfl> ...translations around a release...
<sabdfl> should that be during, rather than around?
<dholbach> probably "around release time"
<mako> yeah
<dholbach> I think I introduced that mistake - mako: can you fix it?
<mako> sure, no problem
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> beuno: wdiff plugin for loggerhead? :-)
<sladen> I don't thing I am in a position to take in and comphrend the rationale and the various diffs this evening.
<sabdfl> i'm removing whitespace and want to reflow the text
<sabdfl> which will blow out the diff
<sabdfl> also, i feel a need for a closing paragraph, anyone else agree>
<sabdfl> ?
<beuno> dholbach, I'm on bug-driven development for Loggerhead, so file a bug, and I'll get it done!
<dholbach> sabdfl: "Be excellent with each other!"? :-)
<sabdfl> there are a couple of other projects that have adopted this CoC
<mako> i don't think it's necessary but wouldn't object to a good one :)
<sabdfl> they've had to amend it to put their own project name in, and contextualise it
<sabdfl> is it a pipe dream to have it be really general?
<sladen> would be possible to debrand it
<mako> so i've talked to some other people about this during this process
<sladen> the same situation has occured with the MPL etc where the proliferation has come from having to change the $name and then rename it
<sladen> even if the content is pretty much identical
<mako> yeah, but that's not a problem here
<sladen> and the service of providing a document that says "be nice to each other" is a good community service
<mako> license proliferation is bad because it leads to incompatible code
<dholbach> sabdfl: in that case we'd have to remove the examples too probably, which I found fairly helpful in bringing our values in a "very vague" way across
<sabdfl> ok, let's defer that till another time, i like it as it is
<sabdfl> it's already much classier and easier to derive from
<mako> right, i would encourge other projects to think about relevant examples to help drive the points home when they derive :)
<dholbach> sabdfl: do you want to leave some time for others to review or shall we go ahead with it?
<sladen> (if somebody can prepare it, a reflowed and then HTML pretty red/green diff would be perfect for the review the changes)
<sladen> ...per-word diff
<sabdfl> i'm adding some bits
<dholbach> how about putting up a new merge proposal and deciding about it at the next meeting?
<mako> so i really like that we're using the meeting to sort of force people to look at this and edit it :)
<sabdfl> okdokey
<mako>  but there is a process issue as well
<mako> is the CC happy voting as group to approve the CC, or do we want to put this up to a vote (perhaps at the same time as the new CC candidates)
<sabdfl> not a bad idea
<mako> since we've explicitly our community to sign it, it seems like it might be a good idea
<dholbach> yeah, sounds good to me too
<mako> and if we've got a vote coming up *anyway*...
<dholbach> sabdfl: are you going to push your changes?
<ajmitch> will the community need to sign the new revision again?
<mako> ajmitch: that's another question
<mako> i would say no
<sabdfl> shortly, and then i'll need to wrap up here and head to bed. i know its even later for you daniel!
<mako> logistically, that sounds insane :)
<dholbach> I don't think there's changes in there that really require some "reconsideration"
<sabdfl> ajmitch: i don't think these changes warrant asking for a re-affirmation
<mako> not individually at least
<ajmitch> I didn't think they would, but at some point in the future you may cross that
<mako> if a large number of people say they think it's not in the spirit of the old draft and would have a problem with it, the CC should think real hard about approving it
<sabdfl> We pride ourselves on building a productive, happy and agile community
<sabdfl> that can welcome new ideas in a complex field, and foster collaboration
<sabdfl> between groups with very different needs, interests and goals. We hold
<sabdfl> our leaders to an even higher standard, in the Leadership Code of
<sabdfl> Conduct, and arrange the governance of the community to ensure that
<sabdfl> there are people with whom issues can be raised who are engaged,
<sabdfl> interested and competent to help resolve them.
<sabdfl> ...
<sabdfl> it needs a final sentence
<mako> ultimately, our leadership needs to be accountable to our members. this seems like one place where that (a) may be necessary and (b) where a consultation will help ensure that
<popey> could launchpad keep a record of which one people have signed?, make it optional. So someone who signed the v1 CoC can also sign v2, but should not be forced to?
<sabdfl> popey: it does, iirc
<ajmitch> popey: I think it has the version stored
<mako> it might be nice to keep track of that, but not necessary
<mako> the new draft really is trying to enshire an identical set of principles :)
<dholbach> [AGREED] Mark to push CoC changes, set up ~ubuntumembers vote about CoC change at the time of the CC election, which leaves enough time for comments. no explicit re-affirmation required.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Mark to push CoC changes, set up ~ubuntumembers vote about CoC change at the time of the CC election, which leaves enough time for comments. no explicit re-affirmation required.
<dholbach> mako: we'll defer wiki licensing and expectations for boards and team councils until the next meeting
<dholbach> there's still Edubuntu on the agenda, which I'd prefer to defer too
<dholbach> does that sound OK?
<dholbach> and Ubuntu One, where I'm not clear if the wiki page was updated with the explicit points that need discussion
<sabdfl> ok
<mako> i saw that nhandler asked about my expired membership at the beginning and y'all said it would be discussed
<mako> i didn't see anything highlighted. was there an outcome?
<sabdfl> mako: you're in till we have the big vote, if that's ok
<dholbach> pasted it to you in PM
<mako> ah, ok
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<sladen> dholbach: what's unclear about Silbs' request
<dholbach> sorry
<dholbach> who's here to discuss it?
<stgraber> dholbach: I guess the edubuntu agenda item is also moving to the next meeting then ? (Diddn't see it mentioned above)
<sabdfl> dholbach: lp:~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision
<dholbach> thanks sabdfl
<sabdfl> let's wrap!
<sladen> can-of-worms neatly avoided for another fortnight^Wmonth
<dholbach> yes, I'd prefer that too
<dholbach> sladen: that's not fair - we had difficulties in achieving quorum and have a bunch of other things to discuss
<dholbach> and is no honoring the discussions we had already
<mako> it i don't undersatnd what that means
<dholbach> the next meeting is going to be Tue, 21st July 11:00 UTC
<mako> minus the "it"
<sabdfl> the controversy stands, i'd like us to be raising new issues only now
<dholbach> so let's adjourn and we'll have silbs there too
<sabdfl> we didn't reach consensus on the use of the Ubuntu name, I don't think it's productive to revisit that now
<mako> silbs issues sounded like a new issue (maybe a subset, but it was a distince new proposal/question)
<sabdfl> there's a new question, w.r.t. one.ubuntu.com which is being raised here rather than simply executed
<sabdfl> i asked that the domain be one.ubuntu.com, and it was felt better to raise it here than JFDI
<sabdfl> which is how that came to be on the agenda
<sabdfl> but we're out of time now
<dholbach> I'll let silbs know about the meeting time
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:12.
<sabdfl> dholbach: thank you!
<dholbach> thanks a lot everybody
<sabdfl> and good night all
<dholbach> I'll do the minutes (team report) tomorrow
<mako> dholbach: awesome! thanks!
<kalon33> good night all
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-08
<Ddorda> where is this channel logged?
<bazhang> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<Ddorda> thank you
<cjwatson> hi
<liw> hi
<mvo> hi
<cjwatson> hmm, no robbie?
<james_w> hi
<robbiew> hello
<robbiew> sorry...processing emails
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * slangasek waves
<evand1> hi
 * robbiew assumes everyone is here...accept al-maisan who's on holiday
 * mvo is here
<robbiew> [TOPIC] 8.04.3
<MootBot> New Topic:  8.04.3
<robbiew> the new, new release date is 07/16...right? :/
<slangasek> yes
<robbiew> slangasek: still no word from Desktop on bug 207072
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207072 in nautilus "nautilus does not display samba shares for machines inside an ADS network." [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207072
<slangasek> we have another kernel in -proposed now that wasn't expected; apparently a security upload had clobbered the previous one before we'd gotten it published to -updates
<slangasek> :(
<robbiew> double :(
<slangasek> the kernel issue was a surprise, but shouldn't affect the timeline
<robbiew> ok
<cjwatson> do you need a d-i rebuild against the new kernel?
<slangasek> cjwatson: I guess we should, to pick up the security fixes
<mterry_> ahem, hi
<cjwatson> slangasek: on its way
<slangasek> thanks
<robbiew> slangasek: should we just drop bug 207072, since I doubt we can get a tested fix in anytime soon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207072 in nautilus "nautilus does not display samba shares for machines inside an ADS network." [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207072
<slangasek> robbiew: we /shouldn't/ drop it, given the consequences, but I don't see that we really have a choice at this point
<robbiew> yeah
<slangasek> if we are letting it slip 8.04.3, we at least need to have a game plan for getting it fixed soon after
<cjwatson> how far has this one been escalated so far?
<cjwatson> sorry, that's sort of code for "has somebody cleared slipping this bug with mdz?"
<robbiew> heh
 * robbiew notified via email...but he's catching up on that
<robbiew> I have a call with him today
<robbiew> and it will be on the agenda
<robbiew> ;)
<robbiew> slangasek: what was the other bug of concern?
 * robbiew cannot recall
<slangasek> robbiew: bug #236640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236640 in open-iscsi "iSCSI install fails under hardy" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/236640
<slangasek> I've uploaded a fix to karmic now, and will upload a hardy SRU today to address the remaining issues that Etienne has highlighted - and will prod for a quick testing turnaround
<robbiew> ok, thanks
<robbiew> ok..moving on
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Alpha 3 Deliverables
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Alpha 3 Deliverables
<robbiew> evand1: usb-creator for windows....still alpha 3, or should be push back?
<evand1> I think Alpha 3 is still reasonable
<robbiew> cool
<robbiew> Keybuk: how's the i586 work progressing?  is that still on for alpha 3?
<cjwatson> I haven't heard any progress updates on the rebuild since around the last call I had with IS; I have another one of those tomorrow and will bring it up
<cjwatson> it's supposed to be done by now
<Keybuk> robbiew: I've not heard any progress either
<robbiew> hmm...okay
<robbiew> will mark it "yellow" until I hear back on it
<robbiew> mterry: the rsyslogd stuff is done, right?
<mterry_> rsyslog is just waiting on MIR work, and then a seed change.  The actual code changes needed have been pushed.  Should be able to make it in time, pending MIR
<cjwatson> have you been in touch with any of the MIR reviewers directly?
<cjwatson> I think it'd be best to do that, to move things along
<mterry_> kees assigned both MIR bugs to himself
<mterry_> But I can poke him
<mterry_> Oh, I should say pitti assigned them to kees.  :)
<robbiew> heh...that does make a difference
<robbiew> thanks
<robbiew> mvo: AptURL policy...no actual code, right?
<mvo> robbiew: some code in software-properties, but it should have all landed now
<robbiew> ah...ok, great
 * mvo needs to review the spec again to be sure
<robbiew> heh
<mvo> python-robustness may get delayed for alpha4
<mvo> I need some input from doko for it
<mvo> landscape should be ok from my side now too, its up to the landscape guys to test/use it now :)
<robbiew> okay
<robbiew> thanks
<doko> mvo: I know ...
<mvo> doko: no problem
<robbiew> cjwatson: the server installer improvements is on track, correct?
<robbiew> that was switched from Alpha 4 to 3...I think
<cjwatson> online help is done modulo actual help text for things (we'll at least have extended partitioning help for alpha 3)
<cjwatson> I'm in progress on the LVM/RAID stuff; a few roadblocks but I believe it's still basically on track
<robbiew> cool...thnx
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
 * mvo did a bad job here last week and will make up for it this week
<robbiew> eh..could be worse
<robbiew> ;)
<robbiew> as a team...we do okay
<robbiew> nowhere near the machine-like progress of some of the Desktop team folks
<robbiew> but...i think that's also related to what they work on
<robbiew> cool...moving on
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
 * robbiew is running Karmic 64bit with grub2 and ext4
<mterry_> heh
<robbiew> and I'm still up :P
 * robbiew also got his office in somewhat workable conditions...no more working from the dining room table 
 * slangasek is running with kms on 2.6.31 and the worst of the damage is that my monitor is stretching my eyeballs
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<robbiew> 5....
<robbiew> 4....
 * ScottK says thanks for the t-shirt
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> np
<robbiew> ;)
<james_w> the new kernel in karmic is apparently better under I/O load
<james_w> no more firefox freezes when building hopefully
 * robbiew just realized that mterry needs a Foundations Team shirt
<mterry_> Yes!
<Keybuk> and some whiskey
<robbiew> lol
<mterry_> Gotta collect 'em all.  OEM and Foundations down...
<robbiew> ours is WAY better ;)
 * ScottK wants in on the whiskey ration
 * mterry_ looks sadly at my empty whiskey bottle
<robbiew> ok...the meeting has digressed
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:37.
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> thanks all
<evand1> thanks
<liw> thanks
<mvo> thanks
<doko> bye
<ScottK> mvo: How's it looking for getting to the backports spec?
<slangasek> thanks, all
<mvo> ScottK: no progress on this, sorry
<ScottK> mvo: OK.  Please just keep it in mind for your 'spare' time.
<heno> hey everyone
<bdmurray> hello
<heno> fader: are you guys participating in the meeting or sprinting?
<heno> various people are away today, at GCDS or sprinting
<heno> but we can start
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda as always: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> bdmurray: I added some items for you just now ;)
<heno> pedro is not here, anyone want to comment on bug days?
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- ?
<ogasawara> I have some highlights from yesterday's kernel bug day
<heno> ok go!
<ogasawara> overall stats can be seen at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090707.html
<ogasawara> I'd again like to thank Andreas for helping out as well as a newcomer JFo
<bdmurray> ogasawara: what do the up and down arrows mean?
<ogasawara> bdmurray: deltas for rate of change
<heno> it would be nice to have a measure of 'total bugs touched' as well
<ogasawara> bdmurray: it was hard to see what bugs were getting touched so that tries to give a rough idea
<heno> might not be 100% accurate of course
<heno> thanks ogasawara
<heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<heno> any this week?
<bdmurray> No, we haven't seen any applications in a bit.
<heno> hm, ok. summer effect I guess
<heno> [TOPIC] Bug Squad meeting -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Squad meeting -- bdmurray
<heno> anything to note for the wider QA meeting?
<bdmurray> yesterday day we had the bug squad meeting and discussed preparing for the global jam with some triaging classes in #ubuntu-classroom
<bdmurray> there was also some interest in the progress on the mentoring program
<bdmurray> and some further discussion on how to go about increasing apport coverage
<bdmurray> which is great!
<heno> \o/
<heno> bdmurray: are you doing a class on writing hooks at dev week?
<heno> (or was that something else?)
<bdmurray> Yes, I'll add myself to the schedule for that
<heno> ok
<heno> I've also spoken with Bjorn on the LP bugs team about the adoption spec
<heno> they had some test failures from the new code but are working on that now
<heno> he says we might see it this week
<heno> (but no promises)
<heno> [TOPIC] SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> Thanks to Alex Magaz, Damian Frick, Stu Redman, Miklos Juhasz, David M. Lee, Nizar Kerkeni, Michael B. Trausch, Jaume Sala, and bluishgreen for providing feeding on SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> SRUs for 8.04.3 continue along.
<heno> care and feeding of SRUs?
<sbeattie> heno: ?
<sbeattie> oh, sorry, feedback
<bdmurray> heh
<heno> right :)
<heno> which brings us to ...
<heno> [TOPIC] 8.04.3 status check -- heno
<MootBot> New Topic:  8.04.3 status check -- heno
<heno> what's the latest story on kernels and CD spins?
<heno> sbeattie: what was decided yesterday?
<sbeattie> new proposed kernels got accepted that include the last security update; but I don't think the corresponding debian-installer upload happened until this morning.
<sbeattie> so isos with the new kernels need to be spun.
<fader> sbeattie: 20090708.1 images are being tested in the certification environment at this very moment
<sbeattie> fader: awesome!
<fader> sbeattie: Do these contain the latest kernel?
<sbeattie> I haven't looked yet.
<fader> (sorry for showing up late; I'm sprinting at the moment)
<fader> Okay, if new images show up we'll test those as well :)
<heno> fader: that's good news but also a good question!
<heno> cjwatson, slangasek: do you know?
<sbeattie> fader: how long roughly is it taking for a round of automated testing to go through?
<heno> do the latest CDs have the new kernel and installer?
<fader> sbeattie: It takes around 30-45 minutes to make a full test run including reboots, installs, testing, etc.  Unfortunately, if a previous install failed there is a 2 hour timeout before the next image will be tested
<fader> (This is a known issue and cr3 is planning to address this very soon)
<sbeattie> fader: are we seeing any failures on 8.04.3?
<heno> fader: most 8.04.3 runs I've seen the past few days have had 0 test results
<fader> sbeattie: So far no.  Though I can't tell yet if there are machines that are failing on the install... I need to wait for all the results to come in to be able to see that
<heno> is there a known (and fixed) issue?
<fader> But everything that has returned results so far has passed
<heno> ok, that's encouraging
<fader> heno: There were two separate issues hitting us.  One was an issue where the PXE install image did not have the same kernel version as the install environment, which caused it to fail to install.
<fader> heno: The other issue was that the certification server had a memory leak that caused it to miss its own check for new CD images and it removed the old one, leaving us with no image to install to test.
<fader> Both of these have been addressed now, and test results are trickling in.
<sbeattie> heh, oops.
<sbeattie> fader: great, thanks!
<heno> davmor2: are you around to help with some install testing as well?
<fader> sbeattie: No worries :)  (The HTML report on the test results is still pending; sorry for the delay, but there were Real Issues as outlined above.)
<heno> It's not listed on the tracker though
<sbeattie> heno: right, I poked slangasek just before the meeting about when he wanted to start iso testing, but haven't heard back.
<heno> ok, I guess we'll see over the next few hours
<heno> any other business?
<heno> thanks everyone!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:30.
<sbeattie> thanks!
<schwuk> thanks heno
<slangasek> fader: new ISOs will have to be rolled today/tomorrow; I didn't remember to binary NEW the kernel upload until this morning, so it'll be a few hours before we have a d-i build matching the new kernel
<fader> slangasek: Thanks for the info.  I'll keep an eye out for it and make sure we get some results for that image
<boredandblogging> Joeb454: ping
<boredandblogging> oops, wrong window
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-09
<persia> Who's here for the Java team meeting?
<persia> OK.  With no responses in 10 minutes, I'll just get started.
<persia> Only agenda item is roadmap review.
<persia> ttx and ludovicc are not present, and cannot update us on the status of their items.
<persia> Roadmap review complete.
<persia> Meeting adjourned.
<Crazyguy> persia, what an exiting meeting :)
 * soren enjoys persia's meeting style.
<czajkowski> morning folks
<highvoltage> morning czajkowski
<highvoltage> soren: I've only gotten to know persia recently, but I think he's awesome
<czajkowski> highvoltage: hey.
<Kangarooo> @now latvia
<Kangarooo> @now latvija
<Kangarooo> @now timezone
<Kangarooo> @now riga
<Kangarooo> @now Europe/Riga
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-10
<soren> o/
<dholbach> bluekuja, cody-somerville: you guys around?
<bluekuja> yep
<dholbach> we're missing one MC member right now to have quorum
<dholbach> I have jpds' mobile number somewhere, let me look for it and text him
<bluekuja> ok
<dholbach> ok, let's see if he turns up
<dholbach> soren and geser are here, nixternal went to sleep, nhandler is still sleeping, so it's either persia or jpds who helps us out now :)
<dholbach> I have no answer yet - I suggest we wait until 7:30 UTC and if nobody turns up, I can offer to do an impromptu meeting as soon as we have quorum - bluekuja: are you going to be around for a bit on IRC today?
<bluekuja> dholbach, yes
<dholbach> I guess cody-somerville is in bed too
<bluekuja> dholbach, could be^^
<dholbach> I'm sorry for this
<bluekuja> dholbach, np, going to have breakfast
<dholbach> bluekuja: same here :)
<bluekuja> dholbach, gonna get back soon
<bluekuja> brb
 * geser too
<dholbach> :-)
 * DktrKranz not... hard to find a brioche @work :(
<bluekuja> dholbach, any news?
<dholbach> bluekuja: unfortunately not
<bluekuja> dholbach, ok, I have to leave for like 2 hours, will it be possible to do this meeting later on?
<dholbach> sure
<bluekuja> perfect
<dholbach> I guess chances are better to have quorum then anyway
<dholbach> thanks a lot bluekuja
<bluekuja> dholbach, np :) be back in two hours
<dholbach> bluekuja, cody-somerville, soren, geser: still there? seems we have jpds here
<geser> yes
<jpds> Afternoon.
<bluekuja> dholbach, yes
<dholbach> now we're only lacking soren, persia, nixternal_ or nhandler :)
<bluekuja> lol
<geser> dholbach: do you know why chrisccoulson set himself on the agenda for 23rd July as he seems to be around at the current time?
<dholbach> geser: I have no idea
<geser> what's the probability to get impromptu MC meeting start in the next minutes? As I would otherwise do some errands (but I can postpone them as it's raining now)
<dholbach> it's raining here too
<dholbach> I don't know about soren, persia, nixternal_ or nhandler
<soren> I'm back from lunch, so I'm available-ish.
<dholbach> bluekuja, geser, jpds: still hanging in there?
<jpds> Yep.
<bluekuja> yep
<geser> yes
<dholbach> anybody wants to chair?
<soren> Ah, shite. Something came up. Can you guys give me 10 minutes?
<bluekuja> yes, I go finish my lunch
<bluekuja> brb
<geser> it seems to be a bad day today to hold a MC meeting
<dholbach> yes and it's not even the 13th
<dholbach> let's start in 5 and soren can read the backlog :)
 * dholbach gets some more tea
<geser> do we want to process Chris also today or on the next meeting?
<dholbach> if Chris is around, I'm happy to have him
<bluekuja> im back
<geser> will ask in #ubuntu-desktop if he has time
<bluekuja> lunch finished
<dholbach> ok, let's kick this off
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:57. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Reapproval of Andrea Veri
<MootBot> New Topic:  Reapproval of Andrea Veri
<dholbach> bluekuja: how are you doing?
<bluekuja> dholbach, just finished my high school exams
<bluekuja> dholbach, on the next semptember I gonna start university
<dholbach> and sorry Andrea for not getting to start the meeting earlier :-)
<dholbach> bluekuja: what are you going to study and where?
<bluekuja> dholbach, and finally I'll have time again to work on Ubuntu/Debian again
<bluekuja> dholbach, np :)
<bluekuja> dholbach, law, here in my city (Udine) quite near Venice
<bluekuja> and maybe the next year I'll move to a city which is like 120 km from here
<dholbach> nice... I hope you're going to enjoy it :)
<bluekuja> yeah, unfortunately I'll have a lot to study
<geser> oh, will you do then debian/copyright reviews on REVU? :)
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> yeah, of course
<dholbach> bluekuja: in terms of Ubuntu and Debian work - what would you like to work on once you're part of the team again?
<bluekuja> dholbach, I'm getting back all my works and packages, from the MOTU-p2p team to helping someone again gaining some experience in Ubuntu as a mentor
<dholbach> I see you're part of the doc, fridge, p2p and backporters team, do you expect to have time for all of those?
<bluekuja> dholbach, I've restarted uploading in Debian today with the new gnome-bt release
<dholbach> bluekuja: is it in Ubuntu already? :-)
<bluekuja> dholbach, yes, gnome-btdownload
<bluekuja> dholbach, it was the old client we had before transmission
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> jpds, geser, soren: any more questions?
<bluekuja> dholbach, anyway day by day, I'll catch everything up
<geser> no
<soren> dholbach: Nope.
<jpds> None from me.
<bluekuja> dholbach, and there won't be problems
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Andrea Veri rejoin the MOTU team?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Andrea Veri rejoin the MOTU team?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dholbach> +1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<dholbach> bluekuja: Welcome back! :)
<soren> bluekuja: Welcome back!
<bluekuja> dholbach, geser, soren, jpds : thanks a lot guys
<bluekuja> I'm happy to be here with you guys again
<jpds> bluekuja: Welcome back! :)
<jpds> [
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> chrisccoulson1: available for the meeting?
<chrisccoulson1> i am:)
<dholbach> excellent
<chrisccoulson1> i found myself a quiet room at work
<dholbach> [TOPIC] MOTU Application of Chris Coulson
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application of Chris Coulson
<dholbach> chrisccoulson1: how are you  doing?
<chrisccoulson1> good thanks. and you?
<dholbach> a bit tired, but doing OK and the rain stopped over here :-)
<chrisccoulson1> heh - i don't know what the weathers like here - we have no windows;)
<dholbach> chrisccoulson1: any reason why you picked the 23 Jul 2009 meeting?
<dholbach> chrisccoulson1: no way! they lock you up in a closet?
<chrisccoulson1> yeah - i couldn't make the 7am meeting this morning, so i picked the 23/7 instead
<chrisccoulson1> but that is quite far away ;)
<dholbach> ah ok, I see :)
<dholbach> good to have you now
<dholbach> jpds, soren, geser: questions?
<chrisccoulson1> thanks:)
<jpds> chrisccoulson1: So you're a linux only company?
<chrisccoulson1> jpds - unfortunately not. the company i work for is actually an automotive company
<soren> Yes, I need to know more about this place with no windows. :)
<chrisccoulson1> ah
<chrisccoulson1> yes, of course - i said we had no windows;)
<geser> chrisccoulson1: do you really see nothing in Ubuntu worth improving?
<chrisccoulson1> is that in response to me not saying what i dislike?
<geser> yes, the "What I like least in Ubuntu" item
<chrisccoulson1> yeah, i couldn't think of what to put when i did the application.
<chrisccoulson1> the only things i really dislike at the moment i suppose, are some technical decisions
<chrisccoulson1> eg, pop-under update notifications;)
<geser> such as?
<dholbach> chrisccoulson1: you mentioned the FUSA applet in your application - do you know what's the state of it in karmic?
<chrisccoulson1> dholbach - i don't actually. and that brings me on to something else that is not so good
<chrisccoulson1> i know there is work going on for the FUSA in karmic, but it all seems to be behind closed doors at the momen
<chrisccoulson1> t
<dholbach> the changes need to be because of some gdm changes?
<chrisccoulson1> i know tedg is doing some work on the replacement applet though, but that's all i know;)
<chrisccoulson1> yeah, the old applet doesn't work with the new gdm
<dholbach> I see
<chrisccoulson1> the old codebase got merged in to the new GDM codebase, but it has none of the ubuntu changes anymore
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> I don't have any more questions
<dholbach> jpds, geser, soren?
<geser> neither
<jpds> chrisccoulson1: Do you plan to attend/have attended an local Ubuntu events? :)
<jpds> We need more rockstars.
<chrisccoulson1> jpds - i would like too. i havent attended anything yet. james_w mentioned a few days ago about some UK members to meetup at some point
<chrisccoulson1> face-to-face community involvement is an area i should become more involved with i think
<jpds> Awesome.
<jpds> No more questions from me.
<dholbach> soren?
<geser> chrisccoulson1: do you plan to keep focus on ubuntu-desktop or also do some work outside ubuntu-desktop as a MOTU?
<chrisccoulson1> geser - the plan is to do some work outside of ubuntu-desktop as MOTU, but in addition to the work i do in ubuntu-desktop too
<geser> great
<soren> Sorry, catching up...
<soren> No more questions from me either.
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Chris Coulson join the MOTU team?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Chris Coulson join the MOTU team?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jpds> +1
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<seb128> chrisccoulson1, congrat ;-)
 * jpds watches soren catch up again.
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<jpds> chrisccoulson1: Congrats!
<soren> jpds: Well spotted. :)
<james_w> \o/ congratulations chrisccoulson1
<dholbach> congratulations chrisccoulson1!
<dholbach> :-)
<chrisccoulson1> thanks everyone:)
<dholbach> cody-somerville: around?
<dholbach> might be a bit too early for Cody
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<dholbach> Who wants to do the honours?
<jpds> I will.
<dholbach> thanks a lot jpds!
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:20.
<dholbach> thanks a lot everybody
<dholbach> chrisccoulson1, bluekuja: keep up the good work!
<chrisccoulson1> thanks:)
<bluekuja> dholbach, thanks! :)
<jpds> All should be done now.
<cody-somerville> moo
<highvoltage> and moo to you too
<pitti> hello
<slangasek> morning
<ScottK> Starting early?
<slangasek> starting the greetings early :)
 * fader_ waves.
 * lool waves too
<heno> hey
<cjwatson> hiya
<sbeattie> hey all
<robbiew> yo!
<dendrobates> boo
<slangasek> mdz, pgraner, davidm, Riddell, Hobbsee: ping
<ScottK> Riddell is still at GCDS, so I'm not sure how online he'll be.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> rickspencer is off today, presumably recuperating from GCDS :)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-07-10
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-07-10
<davidm> slangasek, hi
<mdz> slangasek: I'm here, but probably need to dial into another call. do you need anything specific from me?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meeting
<slangasek> mdz: not that I know of
<slangasek>   * slangasek to get kubuntu-netbook added to the ISO tracker
<slangasek>   * rgreening to document kubuntu-netbook install process for ISO tracker test cases
 * pgraner waves
<slangasek>   * cjwatson to update installer for gdm autologin changes
<slangasek>   * pitti to check with Riddell whether any Kubuntu ISO size events are in the offing
<slangasek>   * cjwatson to investigate DVD size explosion
<slangasek> I'll have a poke at the ISO tracker today or Monday
<pitti> slangasek: nothing major planned right now
<slangasek> pitti: ok, thanks
<slangasek> cjwatson: any status to report on your action items?
<cjwatson> installer's updated for gdm autologin changes
<cjwatson> I haven't done anything on the DVD size stuff yet
<cjwatson> (which isn't urgent, but does need to get looked into at some point)
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> rgreening: any news regarding kubuntu-netbook test cases?
<ScottK> slangasek: He's started work, but not done
<slangasek> ok
<ScottK> It's not urgent until IS starts building images anyway .....
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK> (which it'd be nice to get started more than a day or two before the next Alpha)
<cjwatson> oh, speaking of which, I think that ticket got resolved
<cjwatson> let me check
<slangasek> the RT ticket mentioned last week appears to be closed out; is there still an IS action needed there, or is it the cdimage team's now?
<cjwatson> if it's closed, it's ours, and I'll give it another try right now
<slangasek> ok
<ScottK> Kewl.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<slangasek> heno: how's the apport coverage effort going?
<heno> hi
<heno> slangasek: the LP team got some test failures from the code changes
<heno> I was told it might land today, but it seems not
<heno> Bjorn says it's high priority work for them though
<shankhs> hi
<heno> slangasek: that was actually apport adoption :)
<slangasek> oh, that one's the one on the LP side, so not linked to the archive for A3
<slangasek> right :)
<heno> coverage is also moving along, though we would like more hook contributions ;)
<slangasek> fader_: hardware testing?  coming along for 8.04.3?
<heno> we'll encourage community contributions still and then sit down at the sprint to shore it up
<slangasek> heno: great :)
<fader_> Testing of the 8.04.3 images is looking good:
<fader_> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/sru-testing/8.04.3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/sru-testing/8.04.3.html
<fader_> Even more results than are listed there have come back as some 20090709.1 images were tested late yesterday but I haven't yet gotten them on this page.
<fader_> No failures :)
<fader_> We had found a bug that was preventing testing of hardy: Bug 396611 for hardy was fixed by cjwatson
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 396611 in debian-installer "Partitioning fails in 8.04.3" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396611
<fader_> Testing of karmic is going well too:
<fader_> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<slangasek> fader_: 20090709.1 alternate?  (the page title says server?)
<fader_> We found one bug there as well that has also been fixed: Bug 394783 for karmic was fixed by apw and cjwatson
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 394783 in initramfs-tools "Broadcom BCM5708 "SIOCSIFADDR: No such device"" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394783
<fader_> slangasek: I believe it's alternate, let me look
<fader_> slangasek: We have both -server and -alternate tested but only the server results are on the webpage I just linked
<fader_> The -alternate results started coming in late yesterday and I have not put them in the report yet
<slangasek> ok
<fader_> (It's a manual report at the moment so it's a bit time consuming.  Hoping to have an automated report for it soon.)
<slangasek> does testing -alternate in addition to -server actually provide any more information regarding hw compat?
<fader_> slangasek: They use different kernels, I believe
<slangasek> fair enough
<slangasek> any hardware issues or anything that would conceivably prevent getting the testing done in time?
<fader_> slangasek: Not at all... I haven't seen any failures on the hardy testing
<fader_> It's in pretty good shape.
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> ISO testing for .3 is still in progress; no failures yet with the current batch of images
<slangasek> [LINK] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all
<slangasek> we're still mopping up the last of the SRU verifications for .3; there are some hw-specific ones still listed on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html that could use a poke, would be helpful if people could have a look whether they have any of the hardware in question
<slangasek> intel macbooks are one of the affected bits of hardware
<slangasek> heno, fader_, sbeattie: anything else?
<heno> no
<fader_> slangasek: Nothing else from me
<heno> I believe I covered the karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption (out of turn) above
<shankhs> \quit
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> heno: in turn, regardless of my confusion ;)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
<slangasek> pitti: hello
<pitti> as usual, bug status and "intrusive changes" are on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> this week half of the desktop team was on the Gran Canaria Desktop Summit, so
<pitti> devlopment was slow
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> the main action this week was shaking out the biggest regressions from the new
<pitti> gdm and preparing firefox 3.0.5 for landing in karmic
<pitti> next week we'll resume working on the empathy integration and getting U1
<pitti> packages into main
 * slangasek nods
<pitti> two RC bugs fixed, the others keep being dragged, since focus is still on getting in new crack
<pitti> none of them are alpha-3 blockers, though
<pitti> except for ubufox for 3.5, but that can be uploaded in conjunction with flipping the default ffox to 3.5, if that still makes alpha-3
<slangasek> glad to read that 339313 should have made some progress
 * slangasek nods
<pitti> right, but Riddell said to keep it open still
<pitti> fortunately the recent gdm breakage bugs didn't even make it to the list :)
<pitti> bug 395324 is still a wart, I'm trying to get that nailed for alpha-3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 395324 in gdm "'These windows do not support "save current setup"....' metacity warning when logging in with gdm 2.26" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/395324
<slangasek> apparently because no one has been tagging those bugs where I can see them... :)
<pitti> slangasek: no, because they got fixed this week already :)
<slangasek> ah :)
<pitti> any questions from other teams?
<ScottK> Plasma-widget-network-manager is currently not working for WEP or WPA in Karmic, but upstream is aware and writing a lot of code.
<pitti> uh, Jonathan told me it got much better now?
<charlie-tca> any progress in getting gnome dependencies removed/changed?
<ScottK> (related to 339313)
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu now installs gnome and xfce desktop, and karmic is defaulting to gnome
<pitti> charlie-tca: we dropped several libglade* dependencies last week
<slangasek> pitti: for DX integration, you have written "all specs not drafted yet" - is there an ETA for those?
<slangasek> (hard to extrapolate how intrusive they'll be in practice, without more info...)
<ScottK> pitti: It did and then Network Manager got updated and so it got worse.
<pitti> slangasek: oh, that's sort of stale; I'll check with david, but so far I'm aware of the gdm theming only
<slangasek> ok
<pitti> sorry, will update next time
<slangasek> davidbarth: ^^ anything to add there regarding pending DX specs for karmic?
<pitti> (still not drafted)
<slangasek> pitti: why does http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt want to drop fusa to universe now?
<slangasek> is that related to gdm?
<pitti> slangasek: the current fusa package isn't compatible with the new gdm
<davidbarth> slangasek: fusa should be on the list
<pitti> so we are again installing the one from upstream gdm
<lool> IIUC, the new fusa is *in* new-gdm?
<pitti> I was told that ted is planning to port it to new gdm
<pitti> lool: yes, so was the old one, but we heavily fork it
<slangasek> porting in the karmic timeframe?
<charlie-tca> the config file shipped in xubuntu-default-settings sets xfce.desktop as the default session, but gnome desktop is what comes up.
<pitti> slangasek: the two aren't co-installable
<davidbarth> ie, ted is trying to upload a new version asap (being on the critical path) to test the new infrastructure
<slangasek> ok
<pitti> charlie-tca: that's in the works AFAIK; gnome-session gets a -bin split out with just the bits that gdm needs
<pitti> then xfce can just pull in that one
<slangasek> davidbarth: reusing the current package name, surely?  (so no sense in us archive folks moving it to universe, if it's going to come back shortly)
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<pitti> (done in Debian, we just need to merge)
<slangasek> no more questions from me; anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<lool> Hotest topics are:
<lool> * qemu buildds: IS is seeing crashes/hangs; I'll try to reproduce; we're very much hoping for hardware
<davidbarth> slangasek: doing what you folks tell us to do ;) but yes, reusing the pkg name
<lool> * cd images: mx51 and marvell need kernel and bootloader; we're working on the bootloaders
<lool> * mx51 kernel is worrying: see details on the wiki page and kernel team will probably expand, but I'd like to discuss consequences of using 2.6.28 which is the proposed plan for the short term
<lool> cjwatson, slangasek: I'd love to hear your thoughts on the consequences of using 2.6.28 in karmic
<cjwatson> mx51> I thought that was already discussed briefly, and davidm came back and said you weren't doing it
<slangasek> lool: davidm told me that the 2.6.28 idea was scrapped already
<lool> We weren't doign what?   2.6.28?
<cjwatson> my thoughts are pretty similar to slangasek's expressed earlier, viz.: pretty painful in the metapackages, would greatly prefer not to even short-term if possible, but if we do it then it can't release that way
<lool> Hmm we chatted about this over the mobile phone meeting in my morning some hours ago
<pgraner> lool: I got word last night that .28 was out
<davidm> lool, per our conversation of last night we killed 2.6.28
<lool> davidm: around?
<lool> Ok
<davidm> It was way to painful
<lool> Right
<lool> That was my impression too
<lool> So probably no image for a3, unless the kernel makes progress
 * slangasek nods
<lool> pgraner: I guess you'll cover the mx51 situation in details, or should we do that now?
<pgraner> lool: not likely unless we get some serious help from freescale
<lool> I've included the status/proposals to make progress on the wiki page
<pgraner> lool: what wiki?
<lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<pgraner> lool: we track the status on our page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<lool> Ok; i added some details on hardware debuggers, request for help to FSL etc.
<lool> Are there any questions on mobile status?
<pitti> lool: some stuff, like dk-disks or KMS doesn't work with 2.6.28
<pgraner> lool: I don't see any proposals other than .28 which davidm suggested btw not the kernel team
<slangasek> lool: bug #396453 isn't on your wiki page
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 396453 in webfav "webfav must support ffox 3.5 in karmic" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396453
<lool> I thought it was a proposal by amitk; I'll remove that part
<slangasek> lool: that's your department, isn't it? :)
<lool> amitk is kernel team ATM but working for mobile
<pitti> lool: libgudev relies on some new netlink features that are only in .30 (non-root users being able to talk through netlink to udev)
<lool> slangasek: That's not targetted at A3 though; I didn't include updates on all release targetted bugs
<lool> slangasek: I could do that if you think that's useful
<lool> pitti: Thanks; I think everyboyd agrees to not follow on the 2.6.28 idea anyway
<pitti> lool: ok, just adding a "will break" reason then :)
<lool> Thanks :)
<slangasek> lool: I'd like to know where we are with high-priority release-targeted bugs, generally, even if not milestoned for the current alpha
<lool> slangasek: Ok; I'll prepare that for next meeting, thanks for the suggestion
<slangasek> lool: ok, thanks
<lool> slangasek: I know nothing about that webfav task; I'll poke StevenK about it
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> any more questions from anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<slangasek> lool, davidm: thanks
<pgraner> Yo...
<slangasek> hi
<pgraner> We updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic#Release%20Meeting%20Bugs for the bugs in the agenda
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<pgraner> Also the remainder of that page is updated for all of our status. A few points to call out:
<pgraner> ARM imx51 as discussed in the mobile section. Most likely won't be in A3
<pgraner> We have contacted FCL asking for additional help. No response as of yet
<pgraner> AppArmor will get fixed by the upload that apw will do today.
<slangasek> yay!
<pgraner> We need to have security test to make sure it looks good
<apw> apparmor will be integrated but disabled by default during testing
<apw> there are a couple of known issues with it which are being worked but in less critical support
<lool> pgraner: Concerning mx51, if the two kernel engineers working on it without hardware still lack some next week, we could discuss which hardware we could send them: I can think of either some B1 boards or the other non-b2 TO2 boards we have around
<pgraner> lool: I had talked to davidm about that he was to get with you guys and send a b2 to amit
<pgraner> lool: that was late last week
<bjf_afk> pgraner, amit has a b2 now
<pgraner> bjf: where did that one come from?
<slangasek> the status of the kernel-karmic-wifi spec mentions 'rfkill changes have come through in 2.6.31-rc1' - that seems to have resulted in bug #397698
<lool> pgraner: Amit has a b2 but I understand Bryan and Martyn don't
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 397698 in acpi-support "isAnyWirelessPoweredOn in state-funcs always returns 1 in karmic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397698
<bjf> pgraner, was ogra's i believe
<slangasek> is the lack of link in /sys from the network device to the rfkill device deliberate?
<pgraner> lool: then we need to get them some, what can you guys spare?
 * ogra looks up
<ogra> pgraner, we dont have anything left i think
<lool> pgraner: I think bjf and amitk have B2 and another to2 board each, these are probably very close to b2, otherwise b1
<lool> Either from my team or from ARM
<pgraner> lool: lets take this offline, to save everyone the pain...
<lool> Sure
<pgraner> apw: what do you know about the rfkill above?
<apw> slangasek, unsure ... is there a bug i can look at?
<slangasek> apw: bug #397698 is the one I have
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 397698 in acpi-support "isAnyWirelessPoweredOn in state-funcs always returns 1 in karmic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397698
<pgraner> LP 397698
<apw> they have been fiddling heavily in there this merge
<slangasek> we can take that off-line, though
<pgraner> slangasek: we will get back to you on that one
<slangasek> sounds good
<pgraner> Thats it for us pending questions
<slangasek> thanks, guys
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<davidm> pgraner, I pulled ogra's board for amit
<cjwatson> ok, so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic is up-to-date I think
 * heno is afk
<cjwatson> the main non-mentioned intrusive thing happening is upstart 0.6.0, which anyone who's upgraded this morning will probably have noticed :)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<pgraner> davidm: ack
<cjwatson> I believe it's sort of on a "well, Keybuk's system still boots" kind of basis right now, so do let him know if you run into trouble with it
<pitti> hm, "just works" here, too
<cjwatson> all our alpha-3 features are believed to be on track, with the possible exception of the python packaging work which is still a bit definition-light
<slangasek> unblocks the effort to get upstart integration into Debian, so I'm willing to put up with my system not booting for that ;)
<robbiew> +1 ;)
<cjwatson> the i586 work has reached the point of having test CDs, which Keybuk is currently testing
<ScottK> slangasek: I'm also willing to put up with your system not booting for that.
<slangasek> hah
<cjwatson> that's about all I have; anything from Robbie?
<robbiew> nope
<slangasek> I see 'eglibc adoption' is added as an essential spec - is that decided and just needs doing?
<cjwatson> I think I mentioned that at last week's meeting
<dendrobates> * UbuntuSpec:server-karmic-pristine-daily-virt-builds
<dendrobates> Done.
<robbiew> ah...indeed
<dendrobates> sorry, premature cut and paste :)
<robbiew> lol
<cjwatson> but short answer, yes
<slangasek> cjwatson: oops; haven't made it all the way through that log yet, can you recap briefly?
<slangasek> ok
<robbiew> with 10.04 being the LTS...eglibc needs to be in 9.10
<ScottK> Excellent summary
<slangasek> any questions for Foundations?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> cjwatson, robbiew: thanks
<dendrobates> * UbuntuSpec:server-karmic-pristine-daily-virt-builds
<dendrobates> completed
<dendrobates> are there any questions about this?
<dendrobates> UbuntuSpec:server-karmic-update-motd-inotify
<dendrobates> Not done.  non-blocker, targeted at Alpha4
<dendrobates> UbuntuSpec:server-karmic-kvm-qemu-packaging
<dendrobates> Working prototype done. Waiting on qemu-kvm_0.11 release
<slangasek> server-karmic-update-motd-inotify was blocked on upstart before, right?  so is unblocked now?
<dendrobates> Bug 326768
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 326768 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "mysqld_safe thinks mysqld has crashed when it hasn't" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/326768
<kirkland> slangasek: we're not gating on that
<dendrobates> kirkland: is it unblocked?
<slangasek> kirkland: does upstart 0.6 give you what you need anyway?
<kirkland> slangasek: when upstart supports inotify, we'll use it
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> (oh, right, that was going to be in 0.10)
<kirkland> slangasek: don't know, haven't seen an update from Keybuk on my wishlist bug for inotify support
<cjwatson> upstart 0.6 appears to have at least some inotify support
<kirkland> slangasek: basically, update-motd will merely suggest iwatch, and use it if on the system
 * slangasek nods
<dendrobates> Bug:326768  Mathiaz had been waiting for debian to move 5.1 to unstable, so he could just merge that, but he will be uploading a fix shortly, since that is the quickest way to get rid of this bug
<kirkland> slangasek: rather than depending on iwatch, which would necessitate an MIR that pitti groaned about
<slangasek> dendrobates: ah, so I'm not the only one tired of seeing that bug on the list ;)
<slangasek> kirkland: right
<dendrobates> Bug 385475 We are aware of the problem and discussed it at UDS.  We are currently waiting for an upstream code drop
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385475 in likewise-open5 "[Karmic] Likewise-Open 5 fails to authenticate users" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385475
<dendrobates> If the code drop does not come in time, we might have to drop the 5.x version.
<cjwatson> hmm, possibly only as much as in upstart 0.3
<ScottK> I'd like to ask the release team to please sprinkle their holy water on the clamav update plan and give it blessing to proceed.
<slangasek> pitti: I noticed that you aren't subscribed to ubuntu-release; could you take a peek at the archive and give your opinion on the clamav update plan?
<slangasek> touching on SRUs as this does, I'd like your ack before telling the TB to go for it
<pitti> oh, sure
<slangasek> also, please subscribe to ubuntu-release :-)
<pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2009-July/000005.html
<pitti> slangasek: subscribe> done
<slangasek> anything else for server?
<dendrobates> nope
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to ack/nack clamav update plan on ubuntu-release
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to ack/nack clamav update plan on ubuntu-release
<pitti> I saw https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClamavUpdates before, and it looks alright to me
<pitti> Scott and I talked about it before
<ScottK> slangasek: Can I call that approved then?
<slangasek> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> Thanks.
 * ScottK updates the wiki ...
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<ScottK> Things are generally quiet in Universe.
<ScottK> There is some discussion of another ghc6 transition
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK> The planning seems sane, so if they go ahead, I'm not worried about it.
<ScottK> We had one motu-release member resign this week.  We'll get a replacement, but haven't done it yet.
<ScottK> That's it for Universe.
<slangasek> we still need to kick python2.5 out of python-all-dev; ought to get that done soon so we've got plenty of lead time for rebuilds
<ScottK> In Kubuntu we are packaging KDE 4.3 RC2 right now.  I expect that'll be out version for Alpha 3.
<slangasek> who resigned?
<ScottK> dktrkranz
<slangasek> ok
<ScottK> Too busy with work.
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK> It looks reasonably good for having Kubuntu Netbook images for Alpha 3.
<ScottK> We've also engaged with the plasma-netbook shell upstream and have a good idea of the plan to get that into Karmic.
<ScottK> I think that's it.
<slangasek> what's plasma-netbook shell?
<ScottK> It's a lighter weight version of plasma optimized for netbook use.  It also has some additional functionality related to working better on the smaller screens.
<ScottK> Our minimal objective for Kubuntu Netbook is to present a traditional Kubuntu scaled down for netbook.  That's almost done.
<slangasek> ok, cool
<ScottK> What we really want to do is something radically cool that no one else has and that's the key piece for it.
<ScottK> Upstream it'll be in KDE 4.4 (Karmic +1), but we should have it first.
<slangasek> nice :)
<ScottK> Having sebas at UDS was a great help for establishing those connections.
<slangasek> any questions from folks regarding universe?
<slangasek> ScottK: thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Known regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Known regressions
<slangasek> any regressions people want to discuss that aren't already on the list?
<ScottK> I did have one other point on Python stuff.
<slangasek> ScottK: oh, go aheda
<slangasek> ahead
<ScottK> Our cdbs has a change to automagically add install-layout=deb that Debian's doesn't have.  It makes it tough to make a package that works with Python 2.6 in both Debian and Ubuntu
<ScottK> I think we should be consistent and either get that in Debian or drop ours.
<pitti> --install-layout should work in Debian as well
<slangasek> has the change been submitted to Debian?
<slangasek> pitti: the issue isn't whether it works, but whether it's being done by default and the interaction with the install files, I suspect
<ScottK> slangasek: I don't know.  I'm pretty much just a user of CDBS.
<pitti> I don't see it on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=cdbs
<slangasek> can someone take responsibility for forwarding that?
<ScottK> I think it would come better from someone with some established relationship with the Debian CDBS people ....
<slangasek> (doko made the change, but his Foundations time is limited this cycle)
<slangasek> pitti: is that you? :)
<pitti> o/
<ScottK> Thanks.
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to forward --install-layout=deb change to Debian cdbs maintainers
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to forward --install-layout=deb change to Debian cdbs maintainers
<doko> ScottK: on my list. but this change should go to Debian as well
<slangasek> anyway, regressions
<slangasek> anything we need to discuss there?
<slangasek> (I have a few bugs to file regarding kms and external VGA, but don't need to discuss those here)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
<slangasek> the DVD sizes were mentioned earlier, no need to dwell on that
<slangasek> I understand we'll save a bit of space on CDs soon due to mono changes again
<slangasek> but we could still use some more space wherever people can find it, to accomodate more langpacks when the time comes
<ScottK> There was an outstanding action to check for known CD size events for Kubuntu.  I'm pretty sure there aren't any.
<slangasek> yes, I think that was mentioned at the beginning of the meeting
<ScottK> We have a coupld of MIR oustanding, but not for large packages.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<lool> slangasek: Just a note that I was wrong when I claimed I only looked at karmic bugs targetted at Alpha 3; I actually looked at all karmic ones which ~ubuntu-armel, ~ubuntu-unr or ~canonical-mobile were subscribed to and hence missed the webfav one.  It will appear on my list now since I sub-ed canonical-mobile to it.
<lool> slangasek: Concerning the webfav bug, 396453, bfiller confirmed he's working on it and said it's not hard and he should have a tarball next week (I've updated the MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus page)
<lool> (Either davidm or me should run pm-dashboard / bug-zapper regularly to check whether new karmic bugs were assigned to someone in the mobile team)
<ogra> lool, everyone in the team should actually :)
<slangasek> lool: ok, thanks
<ogra> in all teams ... makes it so easy to keep an overview
<ScottK> Just realized I forgot to toss in my link: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic
<slangasek> anything else to discuss here?  dazzling behind-the-scenes changes in karmic? :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:29.
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<pitti> thanks everyone
<robbiew> thanks steve
<lool> Thanks!
<charlie-tca> thank you
 * sattam brb
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-11
<SiDi> cody-somerville: heya ?
<SiDi> knome: we're waiting for you then D:
<knome> ok, give me a few minutes :)
<SiDi> do you know how to use the meeting bot ? :p
<knome> yeo,
<knome> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is knome.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<knome> okay, let's start
<ScottK> Can I just toss something in before I have to run?
<knome> sure. :)?
<cody-somerville> Hi
<knome> hello cody
<ScottK> We had a conversation yesterday in #ubuntu-x about the dontzap package.  It's not needed for Ubuntu/Kubuntu since upstream provides a GUI for the change.  We didn't think Xubuntu needed it either, but I thought I mention it.
<SiDi> Heya cody-somerville
<vinnl> Hi
<vinnl> I'll be gone in ten minutes or so, dinner, and return after that :)
<ScottK> dontzap is currently not working in karmic anyway, so the intent is to just remove it.
<knome> okay
<SiDi> ScottK: its the package that allows reenabling Ctrl+Alt+Backspace ?
<ScottK> SiDi: Yes.
<knome> ok, thanks ScottK :)
<charlie-tca> No problem here with that
<SiDi> ScottK: err, then we have to modify xorg.conf on our own ? :/
<knome> is there somebody who volunteers putting the minutes online? i can send the mootbot log once we're finished.
<ScottK> SiDi: No.  Apparently there's a lib that supports this that xfce uses too.
<SiDi> ScottK: i think this should be confirmed with xfce devs. i've never seen a gui for that thing
<ScottK> It's xklavier that they were mentioning
<charlie-tca> SiDi: but you can still enable it with xorg, right
<charlie-tca> ?
<ScottK> You've now exhausted my knowledge of the topic.
<ScottK> I think actually you can't do it in xorg anymore.
<ScottK> You have to use xklavier or whatever.
<SiDi> it can be done with xorg indeed charlie-tca, but dontzap is more typo-proof :)
<SiDi> oh
<SiDi> hey ochosi
<ochosi> hey everyone
<ochosi> sorry for being late
<knome> no problem
<knome> we were just starting
<ochosi> ok, good
<ScottK> SiDi: If I understand the discussion in #ubuntu-x yesterday, I think xorg doesn't work anymore in Karmic.
<SiDi> ScottK: ok then maybe we should keep dontzap :D
<ScottK> SiDi: I'd talk to tseliot about it.
<knome> i think we have to investigate this anyway
<SiDi> ScottK: thanks
<charlie-tca> SiDi: then the question also has to be asked, who will maintain it?
<SiDi> does it need to be maintained ? :/
<knome> SiDi, are you willing to investigate further?
<charlie-tca> Will it be useable as other stuff changes ?
<charlie-tca> If we want it kept, any bugs filed will have to be fixed by us, won't they?
<SiDi> knome: as long as it doesnt involve coding / packaging it should be ok
<knome> okay
<cody-somerville> Anyhow
<knome> [ACT] SiDi investigates the dontzap/xklavier/xorg... stuff
<knome> oops
<knome> [ACTION] SiDi investigates the dontzap/xklavier/xorg... stuff
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SiDi investigates the dontzap/xklavier/xorg... stuff
<cody-somerville> Lets move forward with the agenda
<knome> cody-somerville, i started the meeting as you didn't show up early enough. :)
<cody-somerville> I can't stay too long
<knome> [TOPIC] Review last meetings action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review last meetings action items
<vinnl> Dinner, if I'm needed for anything please push it to the back of the agenda :P
<knome> [TOPIC] .. Team reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  .. Team reports
<knome> has everyone updated the team reports? :)
<cody-somerville> I forgot. I'll do my part later today
<knome> okay
<charlie-tca> not really
<knome> [ACTION] Everybody UPDATE TEAM REPORTS.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Everybody UPDATE TEAM REPORTS.
<SiDi> What is a team report ? :|
<knome> [TOPIC] .. Documentation and artwork for documentation
<MootBot> New Topic:  .. Documentation and artwork for documentation
<cody-somerville> SiDi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<knome> j1mc doesn't seem to be available
<knome> there's not much progress
<knome> so let's move on
<knome> [TOPIC] .. Testing wiki pages
<MootBot> New Topic:  .. Testing wiki pages
<knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short
<knome> charlie-tca, how are they coming along?
<charlie-tca> ouch
<charlie-tca> forgot to do that
<knome> the action item: #
<knome>     *
<knome> the action item:       Charlie to work on the Testing wiki pages and split them to be shorter and readable. (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short)
<knome> no problem.
<knome> :)
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I will have to work that one
<knome> [ACTION] charlie-tca continues the quest to find time to do stuff
<MootBot> ACTION received:  charlie-tca continues the quest to find time to do stuff
<knome> [TOPIC] .. Shipping Xubuntu CDs
<MootBot> New Topic:  .. Shipping Xubuntu CDs
<knome> is there anything to this?
<charlie-tca> I thought we beat that to death
<SiDi> We lack funds for this.
<knome> okay.
<charlie-tca> We can't ship privately due to customs and international laws
<knome> okay :)
<charlie-tca> We can ship in our own countries, though
<knome> okay
<knome> so there's *no* way to ship internationally?
<knome> not even single discs?
<knome> not even randomly?
<knome> :)
<SiDi> We can use relays nationally (locos / xubuntu community / whatever)
<ochosi> where'd the funds come from for this?
<SiDi> but still, printing the CDs is costy
<knome> ochosi, personal funding.
<SiDi> ochosi: from us i suppose
<charlie-tca> If you can deal with the customs and the ability to insure the disc is not drm/viruses/malware/etc
<knome> SiDi, a *CD* is a lot for somebody
<knome> not everybody can download the iso and burn it
<knome> it doesn't need to be "official"
<SiDi> i know that
<ochosi> but knome, if people are unable to download and burn an iso, will they be able to online order a cd?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: canonical sponsors shipit service for Ubuntu and Kubuntu cd's
<SiDi> Well, if we burn them ourselves they're gonna have to be error-proof
<knome> charlie-tca, i suppose that sending from states is as easy as filling a green customs sticker :)
<knome> ochosi, NO, they are not.
<knome> ochosi, that's why we are discussing.
<charlie-tca> no, it isn't, Knightlust
<charlie-tca> knome
<knome> charlie-tca, right...
<ochosi> knome, ok
<SiDi> it's easier to get some CD in each LUG but again people wont go to LUGs
<knome> charlie-tca, well at least i have no problems in shipping to EU countries.
<charlie-tca> I looked into it, and can't actually provide all the **P*J: they want
<SiDi> so we still could ship them in walmart but i doubt they let us do !
<knome> it's just a cd... :)
<knome> it's not that many people *really* need the cd
<charlie-tca> It is the government
<knome> about 1-2 per month maybe
<ochosi> knome, i see now, i thought this was only about shipping in your own country or the eu
<SiDi> But many people will order them knome
<knome> SiDi, we're not opening an *ordering* page
<knome> if somebody really needs the cd, they come asking for it
<charlie-tca> Got a lot of forms to file here to prove it is safe and allowed
<SiDi> then how do you want people to know they can order CD s ?
<knome> and maybe we can ship on to them
<charlie-tca> They can not order a cd for xubuntu, SiDi
<knome> SiDi, they have to undestand they have to ask.
<knome> SiDi, i've seen a few people almost *crying* for a cd
<SiDi> ok so you'd advertise the possibility to negociate an officious CD on irc ?
<ochosi> so you want to put some kind of message on xubuntu.org saying: if you're in real trouble donwloading/burning the image, contact us, we'll try to ship a disc?
<knome> no, we wouldn't advertise
<SiDi> and we send a burnt CD with a hand-draw mouse on it ? :)
<knome> no, no advertising
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> SiDi, yes! :]
 * charlie-tca nods
<knome> basically, if somebody asks for a cd and really can't d/l it, we should be able to ship one to him/her
<knome> as our personal investment in open source
<knome> that's the core thing
<knome> and that's been discussed, right, charlie-tca ?
<charlie-tca> knome: you know I have been trying to. At this point, I can not ship outside of the USA
<knome> charlie-tca, well you can ship to usa. we at EU can ship to EU.
<SiDi> charlie-tca: anyway i doubt anyone can ship easily outside of europe / usa
<charlie-tca> correct, discussion has taken place.
<ochosi> well within the eu this wouldn't be a problem
<ochosi> what countries are we talking about here anyway? *the world*?
<charlie-tca> I can't even get them to Mexico
<knome> ochosi, the world, yes.
<charlie-tca> That is correct, ochosi
<SiDi> problem is that for an individual its extremely expensive
<SiDi> we should better in this case find some contacts in every official LoCo
<knome> that's fine as well.
<charlie-tca> Costs me about 1.25 american dollars anywhere in the world
<ochosi> is there a list of loco-teams for xubuntu (or do they even exist at all?)
<knome> ochosi, there are.
<knome> people just need to be ready to talk to a loco
<charlie-tca> ochosi: we are part of the Ubuntu loco teams, normally
<SiDi> charlie-tca: costs me about ~20 dollars outside of Europe
<ochosi> k
<knome> SiDi, you live in FRANCE.
<knome> SiDi, you are forgiven
 * cody-somerville has to go, bbl
<knome> SiDi, and damned :P
<knome> cody-somerville, see you
<ochosi> i think he knows that :) knome
<SiDi> cody-somerville: bye
<cody-somerville> \o_
<knome> anyway
<ochosi> cody-somerville, bye
<charlie-tca> brb
<knome> if somebody asks a cd, we should either mail them one or point them to loco's, everybody agree?
<ochosi> agreed
<knome> okay
<SiDi> or we can get one mailed by the LoCo
<SiDi> cheaper
<SiDi> thats what i meant by LoCo contacts
<knome> SiDi, exactly - point the asking person to loco..
<SiDi> oh i mean we could give the address to the loco guy and ask him/her to send it
<knome> [ACTION] For now, if somebody asks for a CD, point them to asks from the LoCo or send one ourselves.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  For now, if somebody asks for a CD, point them to asks from the LoCo or send one ourselves.
<knome> NEXT ITEM.
<SiDi> we'd have to decide who pays though
<knome> [TOPIC] Progress on notify-osd integration and current critical issues
<MootBot> New Topic:  Progress on notify-osd integration and current critical issues
<knome> SiDi, we pay or the loco pays.
 * SiDi disconnects
<SiDi> Ok so
<knome> SiDi, it's not *that* expensive. if you can't then don't ship one and point them to loco.
<SiDi> NotifyOsd is still under heavy development as you may know
<SiDi> Some issues got fixed, others appear
<SiDi> I'm gonna begin with the current issues as it's the main focus of development if we want to be able to ship n-o in good conditions for Karmic
<knome> [TOPIC] .. Current issues
<MootBot> New Topic:  .. Current issues
<SiDi> So among minor problems, there are some lacking icons in n-o
<knome> SiDi, is somebody working on them?
<SiDi> we're not very concerned as we have Human installed as far as i know
<SiDi> knome: no but at worse i suppose it's all about pinging kwwii and asking gently
<knome> okay, i can try to help as well
<SiDi> The main problems at the moment are a11y issues
<SiDi> First, we can't theme n-o bubbles, which causes problems to some users
<SiDi> This is gonna be solved by MacSlow according to our last discussion. We will have some gconf keys for it
<SiDi> so we can ship different defaults or add a little GUI for it
<SiDi> The most worrying thing is that n-o uses custom fonts / DPI settings from ... GNOME
<ochosi> rly? didn't know that
<SiDi> MacSlow is ok with adding XFCE-specific stuff but he wants n-o to be compilable without this code by default
<SiDi> So i'm gonna patch n-o to use xfconf for this, and by the meanwhile i'll see if i can reallistically make n-o use xfconf everywhere gconf is used, so that we could ship a gconf-free n-o package
<knome> SiDi, so do you need how to proceed or you need some help with it? :)
<knome> (from the xubuntu team)
<SiDi> And of course this requires the authorization to upload a notify-osd-xfce package
<knome> i think that's not a problem, you'd have to ask cody-somerville, though
<SiDi> I need an official developer to sponsor the package if i write the needed changes
<SiDi> I think it can fall under "fix bugs" though so it should be ok if im not done before the FeatureFreeze
<knome> [ACTION] SiDi needs an official developer to sponsor the notify-osd-xfce package.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SiDi needs an official developer to sponsor the notify-osd-xfce package.
<SiDi> Apart from that, we still have apps that misbehave with notify-osd
<knome> SiDi, cody-somerville can push anything through even after ff ;>>
<SiDi> I spotted thunar-volman and xfce4-places-plugin
<knome> SiDi, are they obvious to fix?
<SiDi> I'll patch them soon if everything goes fine, the patch is easy to write
<knome> okay
<SiDi> making a proper .patch file for the package and repackaging and uploading is less
<knome> [ACTION] SiDi keeps on doing the great work on patches so notify-osd works correctly
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SiDi keeps on doing the great work on patches so notify-osd works correctly
<ochosi> thunar-volman and xfce4-places are both about mounting notifications?
<SiDi> I know how to write code but it stops there, so i'll need guidance from real devs again
<SiDi> ochosi: yes
<SiDi> they use actions in it
<knome> [ACTION] SiDi needs help from "real" developers
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SiDi needs help from "real" developers
<ochosi> and would that change if say thunar/gio was ready for karmic?
<SiDi> it won't
<knome> SiDi, do you specifically mean the xubuntu devs or the original app devs here?
<SiDi> Apart from that, xfce4-volumed is implemented and working.
<SiDi> knome: ours
<knome> okay.
<SiDi> i just need to be explained how to make a proper patch for a deb package
<charlie-tca> Well, we do have cody-somerville and mr_pouit  to help when needed, SiDi
<knome> [ACTION] xfce4-volumed is implemented and working! -> SiDi adds this to the team report.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  xfce4-volumed is implemented and working! -> SiDi adds this to the team report.
<SiDi> My volume daemon works nicely, but it still uses ram : 2.9 MB on my 64bits install, so i think it should be easy to unset it from autostart
<knome> [ACTION] mr_pouit and cody-somerville help SiDi ;]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mr_pouit and cody-somerville help SiDi ;]
<SiDi> I also want to patch gnome-settings-daemon in order to make its notifications easier to read. If you spot apps that use long and hard to read notifications, please file a bug and add me to subscribers (and mail me ;p )
<knome> SiDi, anything else you'd like to add?
<SiDi> Finally, i'll also see with the xfce4-power-manager dev if he can add support for the XF86Power key so that i could patch xfce4-power-manager to use more simple notifications too
<knome> [ACTION] If you see lond and hard to read notifications, file a bug and add SiDi to subscribers and poke him
<MootBot> ACTION received:  If you see lond and hard to read notifications, file a bug and add SiDi to subscribers and poke him
<SiDi> (but he's already made an awesome work patching xf-p-m to use notify-osd !)
 * charlie-tca thinks that he won't be filing bugs for every notice he can't read.
<SiDi> I'm done with this topic, but there are other topics i'd like to speak about
<knome> [AGREED] SiDi is too humble. Hooray SiDi! :)
<MootBot> AGREED received:  SiDi is too humble. Hooray SiDi! :)
<SiDi> And i think ochosi may have a word to say about mail clients :p
<knome> charlie-tca, lol ;)
<SiDi> knome: come on Q.Q
<knome> ochosi, ?
<ochosi> well, SiDi and me had quite a few discussions about whether we prefer claws or tb
 * SiDi is actually ABSOLUTELY NOT humble.
<ochosi> specifically for karmic
<knome> oh right
<knome> ochosi, can you wait a bit?
<ochosi> np
<knome> let's go through the other items quickly
<knome> [TOPIC] Karmic Artwork Brainstorm
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Artwork Brainstorm
<ochosi> mm, i like that :)
<knome> [AGREED] knomes brain is not storming enough. We still wait for the awesome artwork.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  knomes brain is not storming enough. We still wait for the awesome artwork.
<SiDi> knome: !
<knome> [IDEA] Something sky/clouds-related
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Something sky/clouds-related
<knome> [IDEA] PINK mice
<MootBot> IDEA received:  PINK mice
<SiDi> Pink ?
<ochosi> +1 for pink mice
<SiDi> Purple / Mauve artwork with sky and clouds and sunrise ?
<charlie-tca> PINK???
<knome> [IDEA] Purple / Mauve artwork with sky and clouds and sunrise ?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Purple / Mauve artwork with sky and clouds and sunrise ?
<knome> [IDEA] PINK???
<MootBot> IDEA received:  PINK???
<knome> ;]
<ochosi> i think you're the master of blue, knome. xubuntu should stay blue
<knome> [IDEA] Something as dark as the Jaunty artwork?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Something as dark as the Jaunty artwork?
<knome> [IDEA] Xubuntu should stay blue.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Xubuntu should stay blue.
<charlie-tca> Kill that pink idea
<SiDi> some hues of violet go very very well with blue
<knome> [IDEA] Dark GTK theme.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Dark GTK theme.
<SiDi> but pink is a bit hardcore
<knome> [IDEA] knome will work with cody-somerville to include his dark GTK theme to some Karmic alpha.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  knome will work with cody-somerville to include his dark GTK theme to some Karmic alpha.
<ochosi> i'm for dark panels with bright icons (especially for stuff like volume-icon etc)
<knome> SiDi, charlie-tca: it was a joke.. :)
<knome> [IDEA] Dark panels with bright icons.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Dark panels with bright icons.
<SiDi> charlie-tca: on a a11y point of view, is dark panels ok ?
<knome> [IDEA] Black panels with black and black icons.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Black panels with black and black icons.
<ochosi> i'm for dark panels, no matter what gtk-theme is used for the rest tbh
<charlie-tca> As long as panels and icons and text are all black, I guess so.
<charlie-tca> That would fit in well with notify-osd for me ;-)
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> charlie-tca, remember when i worked with my dark theme? was that ok?
<knome> charlie-tca, a11y-wise?
<ochosi> i would also say that a theme joining the menu-bar and xfwm4 color-wise is nice (like the dust-theme)
<charlie-tca> I think so. I just change it to something I can read anyway
<ochosi> but i know that knome will beg to differ
<knome> i don't like it personally.
<SiDi> ochosi: like my last theme ? :D
<knome> but if we decide to go that way... well i can change it to something i lie. :P
<SiDi> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Chromium+GTK+%2B+XFWM?content=108046
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Chromium+GTK+%2B+XFWM?content=108046
<SiDi> oh crap, mootbot
<knome> [IDEA] Colorwise joined menubar and xfwm4?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Colorwise joined menubar and xfwm4?
<ochosi> yay SiDi, nice theme btw
<knome> okay, anybody has something for the artwork brainstorm?
<SiDi> ochosi: it has a few (lots) of problems and work needed
<SiDi> knome: you need to register to ubuntu-devel
<ochosi> the icon theme will stay gnome-brave, knome ?
<knome> SiDi, why?
<SiDi> and watch what goes on with usplash !
<SiDi> They're gonna use a custom X server apparently
<knome> ochosi, if no better theme will show up
<knome> SiDi, right
<SiDi> maybe asking kwwii and mat_t to keep you in touch about any official ubuntu artwork infrastructure changes may help too
<charlie-tca> SiDi: we still it to be able to use a Xubuntu usplash, please.
<knome> [ACTION] knome needs to join ubuntu-devel ML and see what is going on with usplash
<MootBot> ACTION received:  knome needs to join ubuntu-devel ML and see what is going on with usplash
<ochosi> knome, i'm fine with gnome-brave, only one general question: i assume you'll try to build on top of the most recent version of the theme..?
<SiDi> charlie-tca: usplash would make us lose some boot time probably
<charlie-tca> We are using theirs now, and I want ours back
<SiDi> it's gonna be dropped, and plymouth too, in profit of faster / lighter solutions
<knome> ochosi, can you be more specific, please?:)
<knome> [IDEA] Gnome-brave as the icon theme for Karmic also?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Gnome-brave as the icon theme for Karmic also?
 * SiDi very dislikes some icons in gnome-brave
<ochosi> knome, well, victor has been working on the theme quite a bit on gnome-brave since you took it for jaunty
<knome> [AGREED] Some icons are not as good as they could be
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Some icons are not as good as they could be
<SiDi> i'm more for a recolored version of Human/Humanity/Breathe, even if it takes _more_ time to setup
<knome> ochosi, oh right. yes, if the newest version is in the repos, we'll use it.
<ochosi> knome, i see
<knome> we're not going anywhere here and we're almost used all of our time
<charlie-tca> We get good comments every release for not using Human, why would we go to it?
<knome> so if there is nothing *reallY* important, let's go on
<SiDi> if we keep gnome-brave, is it possible to get more Humanish media icons ?
<ochosi> SiDi, so making a list of icons we don't like in gnome-brave wouldn't be enough?
<ochosi> k
<SiDi> especially _not colored_ icons
<SiDi> ochosi: it'd be ok for me
<SiDi> i just prefer humanity / breathe's style :p but at least g-b is very complete
<knome> [IDEA] Gnome-brave with Humanish media icons?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Gnome-brave with Humanish media icons?
<ochosi> SiDi, cause i think it's mainly some icons like folders that are crucial
<SiDi> so a list of icons we dont like could do it
<knome> [IDEA] Make a list of icons we don't like in Gnome-brave?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Make a list of icons we don't like in Gnome-brave?
<charlie-tca> important:  All images today are working. This is the time to grab them for testing karmic.
<knome> :]]]
<charlie-tca> We haven't actually had any images since alpha2 that worked
<knome> ok, enough of artwork...
<knome> [TOPIC] Other items/ free word
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other items/ free word
<SiDi> ok, i let you begin ochosi
<charlie-tca> and, gnumeric is broken again
<knome> [ACTION] Grab the images, as *all of them* are working today!
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Grab the images, as *all of them* are working today!
<knome> [AGREED] Gnumeric is broken again
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Gnumeric is broken again
<knome> [TOPIC] .. Default mail client for Karmic
<ochosi> ok, so we had a few discussions about tb versus claws
<MootBot> New Topic:  .. Default mail client for Karmic
<ochosi> i'll try to keep this as short as possible
<knome> np, just tell everything you need to
<knome> i think we can go a bit over 1 hour so absolutely *NO PANIC* :)
<ochosi> i'm not entirely sure anymore, which is the best default mail client any more. in the beginning i was quite convinced that claws is amazing
<ochosi> i still think it's amazing, but SiDi convinced me that it really has some usability issues
<knome> thunderbird is great featurewise and many people would like to use it regardless if it's the default or not.
<SiDi> *evil grin*
<ochosi> the menus, the filtering, the settings dialog, most things are too cluttered
<ochosi> yeah, i don't mind anymore if tb is the default
<knome> hehe
<ochosi> even though i'm not sure what you brought forward is a good argument, knome ;)
<SiDi> i think we can afford to adopt it now as its not a LTS cycle
<knome> [AGREED] TB beats claws feature- and usabilitywise.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  TB beats claws feature- and usabilitywise.
<knome> ;)
<SiDi> knome: TB doesnt beat claws featurewise as far as i understood
<ochosi> well, it's a question of usability versus lightweight
<ochosi> yes, i disagree with that too. it's not a feature-question
<knome> [AGREED] It's a question of usability VS. lightweight
<MootBot> AGREED received:  It's a question of usability VS. lightweight
<ochosi> you can do really *a lot* with claws
<SiDi> If we go for claws though, we should expect to be able to greatly improve its flaws for the next release, and be ready to receive feedback (especially negative critique)
<SiDi> in order to bring this feedback to the claws devs so they can improve it
<knome> many people are not that familiar with claws.
<ochosi> yes, i agree
<knome> that's what makes TB look like as easier to use
<ochosi> yeah, many people are not that familiar with thunar either ;)
<SiDi> Also, do we believe that the users of xubuntu have the same profile than the users claws mail targets ?
<ochosi> yes, that's a good question, SiDi
<SiDi> ochosi: thunar is a piece of cake to use :)
<ochosi> i never said anything else
<ochosi> and i think that's what i think you devs have to decide
 * ochosi goes to the doorbell. apologizes
<SiDi> I'd like to add something not so related but it should be in the meeting logs
<knome> SiDi, wait a sec.
<SiDi> Someone _MUST_ get in touch with alacarte's developer to see if he's worked on an xfce compatible menu editor
<knome> [AGREED] We need to decide on the default mail client
<MootBot> AGREED received:  We need to decide on the default mail client
 * SiDi waited a sec :P
<SiDi> (technically i mean ~)
<knome> [TOPIC] .. Menu editor for Xfce?!
<MootBot> New Topic:  .. Menu editor for Xfce?!
<ochosi> ok, back
<mr_pouit> for 4.8
<SiDi> mr_pouit: so it will not be ready at all for Karmic ?
<mr_pouit> no
<SiDi> ok, i think its one of the biggest user expectations
<SiDi> mr_pouit: its gonna be worked on by Jannis right ?
<knome> [AGREED] No menu editor for 4.8 is bad.
<mr_pouit> yes
<MootBot> AGREED received:  No menu editor for 4.8 is bad.
<SiDi> knome: for 9.10 ;p
<ochosi> yes i agree, many people complain about it. even though i don't think so many people really edit their menu...
<knome> right.. sorry
<knome> [AGREED] EDIT: No menu editor for 9.10 is bad.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  EDIT: No menu editor for 9.10 is bad.
<SiDi> ochosi: usually you just remove half of it once, but doing it manually sucks for Xubuntu users
<ochosi> SiDi, k
<SiDi> ok so i suppose someone should take upon himself to grab alacarte's source and to make a fork out of it for XFCE ?
<knome> [IDEA] Contact Alacarte dev to ask if they have worked for an Xfce compatible app?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Contact Alacarte dev to ask if they have worked for an Xfce compatible app?
<SiDi> I think it was Jannis's plan anyway
<knome> [IDEA] Somebody should fork Alacarte to work with Xfce
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Somebody should fork Alacarte to work with Xfce
 * SiDi is not gonna do it :p
<mr_pouit> no
<knome> [IDEA] SiDi is going to do it ;] ... not.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  SiDi is going to do it ;] ... not.
<mr_pouit> He's already working with Jannis
<mr_pouit> there is no need to fork or whatever
<SiDi> mr_pouit: but do you have recent news about it ?
<knome> [ACTION] Jannis is working with the Alacarte dev already, no need to fork.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jannis is working with the Alacarte dev already, no need to fork.
<knome> ONLY A FEW MINUTES LEFT PEOPLE!!!
<SiDi> afaik the alacarte dev will make a fork of it that works with XFCE
<mr_pouit> SiDi: jannis has been working on thunar-gio recently
<ochosi> what about the other default apps for karmic?
<ochosi> i mean the ones where specs exist
<knome> [TOPIC] .. Other default appsfor Karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  .. Other default appsfor Karmic
<SiDi> mr_pouit: yeh, i follow xfce-dev, and i know hes gonna be busy for a while with thunar, so thats why i was wondering if it would be ok to replace him for the work on the menu editor
<knome> like which?
<mr_pouit> SiDi: but 'everything' should be in a git experimental branch somewehere
<knome> ochosi, ?
<SiDi> ok so i suppose its time to talk about the music player
<ochosi> ok, so there's music app (SiDi)
<knome> we are technically out of time so only quick comments please
<SiDi> knome: is there any urgency ?
<knome> [TOPIC] .... Media player?
<MootBot> New Topic:  .... Media player?
<knome> SiDi, i need to go soonish and i have to finish the meeting
<ochosi> SiDi, did you have time to look into gmusicbrowser?
<SiDi> Ok, so, i've had a look at the main media players for GTK
<SiDi> ochosi: i launched it once or twice but i didnt look in details
<SiDi> i didnt finish the spec actually
<SiDi> i also had a look at parole
<SiDi> and quod libet
<knome> what about something mpd-powered? :}
<SiDi> we're currently shipping Listen, so users dont expect to have something heavier with lesser features, sounds obvious
<SiDi> knome: mpd is not adaptated at all for use with several users
<ochosi> do you think that would be better in usability than claws, knome? :)
<SiDi> and its a pain to configure
<SiDi> i couldnt even get it to run with a GUI knome
<knome> ochosi, there's no comparison between claws and mpd.. ;]
<SiDi> and i didnt invest much more time that an average end user would
<knome> SiDi, you suck.
<SiDi> so thats quite bad
<SiDi> knome: write me a tutorial then
<knome> we would of course set that up.
<knome> SiDi, right. i will when i have that 5mins time :P
<SiDi> imo mpd is not adapted at all for per-user use
<SiDi> so i looked in details at rb / exaile / banshee / listen as they were the most feature-rich
<SiDi> i know there are lighter GUI ones, ie. parole and gmusicbrowser, but i think it's better to offer a complete media suite as default
<knome> true.
<SiDi> as users who need something really lighter will go for mpd anyway
<charlie-tca> yes it is, but not one tied to pulseaudio
<knome> \o/
<SiDi> so i looked a tthe most obvious things. They all play music (yes they do), they work more or less the same in an xfce desktop
<SiDi> listen became much much heavier than it used to be
<SiDi> and it seems to be the one with the worse GUI and lesser features, so i think it can be safely dropped
<SiDi> for dependencies, exaile may have a few more ones than listen (it puts more gstreamer plugins - needed anyway - into its recommanded deps)
<SiDi> RB requires libgnome, brasero and other fancy stuff
<SiDi> Banshee requires libgnome too, and ~100 MB of mono libs
<knome> SiDi, what's your final outcome?
<SiDi> knome: im far from final outcome :p
<knome> sorry if i'm rushing you... :P
<SiDi> rb is the lightest for RAM usage
<knome> SiDi, what's your current feeling?
<SiDi> but it has memory leaks (they all have ~ )
<charlie-tca> Got to come up with one, though, if we drop listen
<SiDi> the one with least memory leaks is exaile
<SiDi> I'm for Exaile, personally
<SiDi> but i cant take a decision on my own, it wouldnt be honnest ~ im too tied to exaile
<knome> [IDEA] ATM SiDi is for Exaile
<MootBot> IDEA received:  ATM SiDi is for Exaile
<SiDi> thats why im exposing this to you now
<knome> i don't disagree with that.
<ochosi> i'm for exaile too
<SiDi> Exaile is light, has decent dependencies, not many memory leaks
<knome> it might be a good choice really.
<ochosi> at least with the choice given
<knome> [AGREED] Exaile might be just what we want.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Exaile might be just what we want.
<SiDi> It has suffered from lack of development lately, but the 3 main devs are now extremely actively workingon it
<charlie-tca> Let's propose replacing Listen with Exaile, then, and try to get cody-somerville to make the changes
<SiDi> and Exaile 0.3 should be ready for Feature Freeze
<SiDi> And since i thought it would be the best choice, i began working a little on exaile :)
<knome> [ACTION] Let's propose replacing Listen with Exaile.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Let's propose replacing Listen with Exaile.
<charlie-tca> We need to have cody-somerville seed exaile for testing
<SiDi> ie. notification plugin (you can find vids of it in my youtube account)
<knome> [ACTION] cody-somerville needs to seed Exaile for testing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cody-somerville needs to seed Exaile for testing
<charlie-tca> We can leave Listen there for now, and give exaile a chance to be tested
<knome> [ACTION] SiDi has started working with Exaile already
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SiDi has started working with Exaile already
<SiDi> and i'm working on some usability / GUI stuff, and also a plugin for better media keys support
<SiDi> (so far NO player behaves correctly for the media keys outside of gnome)
<knome> [AGREED] We can keep Listen for now, test Exaile and make the decision later.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  We can keep Listen for now, test Exaile and make the decision later.
<SiDi> (Exaile had a plugin but i have to port it to the latest version for it to work fine)
<SiDi> Thats all
<knome> okay.
<knome> any other default apps we should discuss?
<SiDi> Now i'd like to say a word about the "Slim session down" spec
<knome> o.O
<charlie-tca> Anything better than firefox?
<SiDi> charlie-tca: not yet :)
<knome> [TOPIC] .. "Slim session down" -spec
<MootBot> New Topic:  .. "Slim session down" -spec
<charlie-tca> In Karmic, it uses 3-10 percent of the cpu continuously
<knome> charlie-tca, epiphany does not work, midori is too alpha.
<SiDi> midori is lighter than it used to be
<SiDi> it has support for flash and various basic things
<knome> SiDi, but it is still too alpha.
<charlie-tca> epiphany don't work?
<SiDi> but i think its far from FF's features (of course since FF is heavily funded)
<knome> epiphany/midori crash all the time
<SiDi> yeh they're very unstable
<knome> for me at least
<charlie-tca> midori I have fought with. I need to do a bug report for it for xfce
<knome> that's unacceptable.
<SiDi> so is chromium (all webkit based ~ muaha)
<knome> SiDi, see the topic :P
<knome> SiDi, slim!
<SiDi> knome: i know you switched too fast ~ :P
<knome> SiDi, session! :P
<SiDi> Ok so i had an idea
<knome> [IDEA] ??
<MootBot> IDEA received:  ??
<SiDi> According to comparisons we mostly lose on the default desktop's RAM usage
<charlie-tca> SiDi: that one could be a good idea?
<SiDi> thats quite logical : we ship update-notifier and other fancy stuff that takes some RAM
<knome> [AGREED] According to comparisons we mostly lose on the default desktop's RAM usage
<MootBot> AGREED received:  According to comparisons we mostly lose on the default desktop's RAM usage
<SiDi> now the bad news is that its not going to be better in karmic
<knome> [AGREED] We stip update-notifier and other fancy stuff that takes some RAM
<MootBot> AGREED received:  We stip update-notifier and other fancy stuff that takes some RAM
<SiDi> of course, apps get more features so more RAM usage, and if we add notify-osd / xfce4-volumed we may lose a few megs too
<SiDi> so my idea is the following !
<knome> [AGREED] It's not going to be better in Karmic.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  It's not going to be better in Karmic.
<knome> ;)
<SiDi> We should be able to check the user's RAM during the install
<knome> [IDEA] ??!!
<MootBot> IDEA received:  ??!!
<charlie-tca> I disagree with that agreed thing
<knome> [AGREED] charlie-tca disagrees...
<MootBot> AGREED received:  charlie-tca disagrees...
<SiDi> and if user has less than XXX RAM, we should disable some daemons from autostart
<ochosi> sounds experimental
<SiDi> till we estimate that the average ram usage would be under YYY
<SiDi> ochosi: indeed. i dont know if its feasible
<knome> [IDEA] Check the RAM at installation stage, disable some daemons from autostart automatically
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Check the RAM at installation stage, disable some daemons from autostart automatically
<charlie-tca> SiDi: if we can disable them for some users, why do we have them?
<SiDi> the idea is that we disable all the non-vital userspace daemons for users with not enough RAM
<SiDi> charlie-tca: because they're a good plus for usability
<SiDi> but i mean, do you _really_ need them ? update-notifier is enhancement
<SiDi> xfce4-volumed too
<SiDi> you can useyour computer without them, even if its better when they run
<knome> [IDEA] Disable any enhancements for all users and not only for those with low RAM?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Disable any enhancements for all users and not only for those with low RAM?
<charlie-tca> If not everybody gets them, how do they decide Xubuntu is really worth using?
<SiDi> but if we want users with 200 MB of ram to can use Xubuntu, we can save 30/40 MB ram this way
<charlie-tca> Seems like everybody should have the same things running.
<SiDi> charlie-tca: it would be only on critical RAM
<knome> [IDEA] Users are able to disable services themselves...
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Users are able to disable services themselves...
<ochosi> i think this is difficult, you won't have consistent experiences of xubuntu anymore
<charlie-tca> We can use Jaunty in 128MB, we should instead pare down karmic to use that
<SiDi> What if we ship a checkbox "Disable userspace services by default" in the Advanced tab of the installer ?
<knome> [AGREED] We want consistent experience for all Xubuntu users, so we can't cut down on default daemons
<MootBot> AGREED received:  We want consistent experience for all Xubuntu users, so we can't cut down on default daemons
<knome> [IDEA] Checkbox for disabling userspace services by default?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Checkbox for disabling userspace services by default?
<SiDi> charlie-tca: im not sure you can get _Xubuntu_ running under 128 forever
<knome> we don't need to get it running *under* 128
<SiDi> Xfce is not so light, GDM takes a good 30 MB, and we add some ubuntu stuff that isnt light at all (including my own daemon)
<knome> is that it?
<charlie-tca> I have three systems using Xubuntu, they all need to be the same. They should never be different if they are using the same thing.
<charlie-tca> SiDi: I don't think we can, but we need to maintain consistent interfaces and applications for all users
<knome> [IDEA] ydupont stepped up; he wants to include SLIM in Xubuntu
<MootBot> IDEA received:  ydupont stepped up; he wants to include SLIM in Xubuntu
<SiDi> Well, thats all i had to say :)
<ochosi> i think we should decide what "light" means. just ram usage?
<charlie-tca> If Xubuntu can't be used, we should say so
<knome> okay, anything else?
<knome> phew
<SiDi> knome: it requires a lot of work prior to working
<SiDi> ochosi: yeh, ram usage here indeed
<knome> he's willing to do it
<ScottK> Note: neither Ubuntu nor Kubuntu disable compositing by default because some video hardware doesn't support it.
<SiDi> ScottK: and some users cant boot :p
<knome> SiDi, that might not be in for karmic, but the work can be started now.
<knome> anything else about anything?
<ScottK> SiDi: Sure, but the point is it's not at all unusual to treat different hardware configurations somewhat differently.
<knome> i'm ending the meeting soon...
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<SiDi> Well i'm done then
<charlie-tca> defines our strategy. Perhaps we all need to review it to find out where xubuntu is supposed to be going?
<knome> PHEW! THANKS!
<knome> charlie-tca, that is wonderfully said
<SiDi> charlie-tca: i have the feeling that we want to be lightweight and feature ful at the same time :)
<knome> [IDEA] Perhaps we all need to review it to find out where Xubuntu is supposed to be going?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Perhaps we all need to review it to find out where Xubuntu is supposed to be going?
<charlie-tca> and we can be
<knome> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:19.
<SiDi> one day we will have to meet and define what we want to do, but now isnt the best time for it
<knome> yep.
<SiDi> okwell, thanks everyone for coming :p
<charlie-tca> SiDi: the strategy docs do define that
<knome> impromptu meetings are allowed as well about the smaller items
<knome> thanks
<knome> somebody want to set up the minutes?
<charlie-tca> Thanks for chairing, knome
<knome> charlie-tca, no problem
<knome> even if we took 20mins extra ;)
<ochosi> yay, i think that's a good sign :)
<SiDi> thats ok knome :p
<ochosi> at least in some respect
<knome> SiDi, i will sacrifice one kitten for every extra minute
<SiDi> We didnt get shout at anyway
 * SiDi kills knome instantly with a fireball
<knome> :P
<knome> ok, i'll put the minutes online then.
<SiDi> okies :p
<knome> it will take some time but i'll do it
<knome> thanks, i'll go have some time with my *wife*
<knome> ...
<knome> SiDi, *I* got shouted at... :P
<knome> ->
<charlie-tca> \o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-12
<juliux> o/w 26
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-12
<iSee> ?
<kees> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie: meetin' time?
<mdeslaur> sure
<sbeattie> hey
<jdstrand> o/
<robbiew> o/
<kees> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:01. The chair is kees.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kees> [topic] stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  stand-up report
<kees> so, I've been working on various little bugs associated with the kernel hardening features (1 issue with ptrace is being worked out -- I think I have a solution)
<sbeattie> is that the nfs issue or something else?
<kees> there will also be a security update for the kernel probably this week
<sbeattie> oh, nevermind, that was a symlink thing.
<kees> sbeattie: not sure yet what that nfs issue is -- sounds like that person has a very strange set up.  (i.e. what is sticky about his config...)
<kees> sbeattie: but yeah, I'm watching that too.
<kees> depending on how busy the kernel testing keeps me, I might try to find something else next on the list to publish too.
<kees> work on blueprints is almost at a stand-still for me, unfortunately.
<kees> maybe that will improve while at the sprint!  :)
<kees> that's it from me.  mdeslaur: you're up.
<mdeslaur> so, I'm working on ghostscript updates this week
<mdeslaur> will probably publish them tomorrow
<mdeslaur> after that, either I go back to looking at gnutls, will go down the list, or may take a look at some blueprint work
<mdeslaur> also, this week, I'm on community, and there are a few packages to sponsor
<mdeslaur> that's it
<kees> sbeattie is up
<sbeattie> java testing has been taking up most of my time; I need to report my results for karmic -- I have a very small number of failures, and I'mworking to verify whether they're regressions or not.
<sbeattie> jaunty jdk testing is underway, hoping to have i386 results by this afternoon.
<kees> sbeattie: cool; yeah.  the status report looks good.
<kees> sbeattie: are there things doko needed to work on?  it wasn't entirely clear -- seemed like not?
<sbeattie> The failures I saw for karmic-i386 were not regressions, so I don't think doko needs to work on them.
<kees> sounds good to me
<jdstrand> I think doko was looking at a jaunty/armel ftbfs
<sbeattie> it'd be nice to know what's wrong with the toolchain (that's my assumption there) but doesn't seem urgent.
<doko> kees: currently fixing the armel build failure on jaunty, and Chris is looking at the xulrunner build failures on sparc
<sbeattie> I also need to finish up documenting my scripts and such so I can hand off to fader_ on the QA team.
<kees> doko: ah-ha, excellent.
<sbeattie> Other than that, I'm on triage this week.
<jdstrand> doko: though it would be great to have jaunty/armel, I might point out that 6b14-1.4.1-0ubuntu13 from jaunty-security and the version from jaunty-release ftbfs
<kees> sbeattie: cool; let us know if you need any help with triage
<sbeattie> kees: will do.
<jdstrand> doko: in other words, afaics, jaunty/armel never had openjdk-6
<doko> well, we can fix it ;)
<sbeattie> heh
<jdstrand> doko: cool by me :)
<doko> jdstrand: I backported more of the plugin fixes to the 6-1.8 branch, so maybe I'd like one more upload ... but not before tomorrow
<jdstrand> k
<jdstrand> so am I up?
<sbeattie> I haven't made any progress on blueprints and I still need to finish reviewing jjohansen's apparmor 2.5.1 nominations.
 * jdstrand waits patiently
<sbeattie> That's all I've got; jdstrand, you're up.
<jdstrand> hehe
<jdstrand> sorry for the interruption
<sbeattie> jdstrand: no worries.
<jdstrand> so my big thing this week is a libvirt security update
<jdstrand> I will publish firefox/et al as the openjdk issue becomes resolved, but until the tck tests come back, I won't ask the server team to test (unless sbeattie and doko feel positive about it)
<jdstrand> as such that might be next week
<jdstrand> blueprints are at a total standstill for me as well. I hope to do some of my apparmor work on the plane and next week
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> well
<jdstrand> I might mention that I am leaning towards putting libvirt in -proposed for the week of the sprint
<jdstrand> assuming I have the packages ready
 * jdstrand is really done now
<kees> jdstrand: that sounds fine by me.  is it something hallyn might be able to help review/test too?
<jdstrand> kees: I plan to do my testing, then ask the server team team to test, especially (but not limited) for euca
<jdstrand> I only got the lucid patch together today, and it is barely tested
<kees> jdstrand: right, I guess I meant, maybe start with hallyn then "everyone"?  whatever works is fine.  sounds like you've got a plan.  :)
<jdstrand> but once I am confident, I will get more people and get it into -proposed
<kees> awesome
<kees> okay...
<jdstrand> I have a plan, I don't have much confidence in the work I;ve done yet, cause it is barely tested ;)
<kees> heh
<kees> [topic] other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  other business
<jdstrand> (the patch is big, and I have tested all the touched code yet)
<jdstrand> err
<jdstrand> haven't
<kees> anything else to cover?  sounds like we've got a bunch in the air (TCK, libvirt, gs, ptrace, AA) but we're aware of those things' next steps
<jdstrand> that sounds about right. I don't have anything to add
<sbeattie> nothing from me either
<robbiew> nothing from me...except good start on the Platform Rally agenda, thanks
<robbiew> /s/agenda/team agenda
<jdstrand> oh that reminds me to add something
<kees> heh
<kees> robbiew: we traditionally just do brain-dumps and then spend the first day creating the rest of the week's agenda.  is that okay?
<robbiew> absolutely
<kees> okay, cool.  I wasn't sure if you wanted us to walk in with a prepared agenda on day one; that hadn't been very successful in the past, so we switched to this.  cool :)
<kees> alrighty, that's all then.  thanks everyone!
<kees> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:24.
<robbiew> thnx kees
<jdstrand> thanks kees!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-13
<lollllllllllllll> bankers
<davidm> G'day NCommander
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:01. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra> gih
<ogra> *sigh even
<ogra> seems we have no logs from last meeting
<NCommander> ogra: ?
<ogra> and dyfet_away didnt add the action items
<NCommander> ugh
<rsalveti> yeah
 * NCommander sighs
<ogra> we had some i'm sure
<ogra> i created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100713 but indeed its empty
<NCommander> I got the raw log
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<ogra> ACTION received:  openjdk status (dyfet)
<ogra>  ACTION received:  md5sums and manifests for daily images (NCommander)
<NCommander> [topic] dyfet to work on openjdk FTBFS
<MootBot> New Topic:  dyfet to work on openjdk FTBFS
<ogra> thats it
<ogra> going through my local logs
<NCommander> ogra: I got them :-)
<ogra> ah, cool
<NCommander> ugh
<NCommander> no dyfet_away
 * NCommander sighs
<NCommander> md5sums and manifests for daily images
<NCommander> c/o. probably won't get this until the sprint
<ogra> manifests are stored next to the ext3 fs
<ogra> so that should be trivial
<ogra> md5sums will be harder :)
<NCommander> ogra: it is, I just need a little time to do it:-)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> no hurry
<ogra> the bug is A3 targeted
<ogra> worst case do it at the sprint :)
<NCommander> [topic] Current Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Current Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<ogra> one done
<NCommander> my spec still isn't showing up
<ogra> even though i was inclined to set it back to TODO
<rsalveti> he moved the fuseext2 doc to TODO again
<ogra> i did
<NCommander> fuseext2 is marked as unstable, why are we using it?
<rsalveti> oh :-)
<ogra> and the other one isnt DONE either
<ogra> i would at least expect the bug number mentioned somewhere and asked for that
<rsalveti> NCommander: for ro only I believe it works well, the problem is rw
<ogra> (the DNOE item is about filing an upstream bug)
<rsalveti> but dyfet_away still needs to test it better to find the best options
<ogra> yes
<ogra> and need to document better
<rsalveti> sure
<ogra> i added some comments and talked to him this morning
<ogra> anyway, all other specs are full TODO
<ogra> nothing DONE yet
<NCommander> ogra: how can we get improved subarch on this list?
<ogra> i pinged ted about the lightweight panel but he said he has no usable code yet
<ogra> NCommander, is it properly milestoned now ?
<ogra> then it should show up automatically
<NCommander> ogra: I thought it got fixed
<NCommander> I'll lookat it again
<ogra> Milestone target:
<ogra> None
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier)
<ogra> still not milestoned
<ogra> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<ogra> :P
<mpoirier> finally done with https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/594382
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594382 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "Wake up daisy chain activation failed on omap3" [Critical,Fix released]
 * ogra extra added lag to the list on the wikipage
<ogra> mpoirier, sweet
<mpoirier> this is now fix and done with.
<mpoirier> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/563650
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563650 in linux-ti-omap (Ubuntu Lucid) "DSS2 oops when shutting down while DPMS is active" [Medium,Confirmed]
<mpoirier> dss2 oops when rebooting
<mpoirier> seem harder to reproduce.
<mpoirier> this is next on the list.
<mpoirier> SDHC card is still very present.
<lag> I'm assuming you don't want updating on every bug?
<ogra> mpoirier, just wait until the monitor turns off and issue a shutdown or reboot via ssh
<ogra> lag, no, just an overall status is fine
<ogra> and bugs that you really care about to let us know
<mpoirier> ogra: let's touch base after.
<mpoirier> mpoirier: done with status.
<lag> mpoirier: When you've finished type ".."
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Not much to report.  Image builds are currently broken.  Last image was 7/7.
<ogra> not true
<ogra> i really should add you to the build reporting :P
<ogra> last image is last nights build
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/daily-preinstalled/20100713/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/daily-preinstalled/20100713/
<GrueMaster> last "tested" image was 7/7.  Since my day hasn't officially started yet...
<ogra> yeah
<NCommander> can I go on?
<ogra> any special bugs you want to point out ?
<GrueMaster> at any rate, I have been focusing on various different aspects of getting my panda somewhat stable, trying to reproduce some failures and getting stable enough to report some bugs.
<ogra> GrueMaster, if you cant use apport, just file them otherwise
<ogra> (unless they are kernel bugs, i know they are a bit more strict)
<ogra> i really dont care how image related bugs are filed :)
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to unbreak apport retracer
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to unbreak apport retracer
<ogra> is it broken ?
 * ogra doesnt even notice
<GrueMaster> I have a workaround for the parport_pc driver oops, and have documented it in the bug I filed against it.
<ogra> i think lag works on that one on the kernel side too
<lag> I do
<lag> I have sent a patch upstream
<lag> GrueMaster: I didn't get a message?
<GrueMaster> bug 603062
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603062 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "oops in parport_pc_probe_port function of parport_pc module (dup-of: 601226)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603062
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601226 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference in ppdev module" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601226
<lag> Oh, the blacklist thing?
<lag> Yes, okay
<GrueMaster> Actually, bug 601226
<lag> The true fix should be out soon enough
 * lag crosses his fingers
 * GrueMaster needs coffee still.
<lag> ;)
<GrueMaster> Other than that, I have tested the fix for the daisy chain issue.  Seems to have gone away.
<ogra> well, for the true fix we need another linux upload
<ogra> i dont think the commit was uploaded yet
<ogra> so wait with cheering :)
<ogra> current binary has still the A2 workaround
<GrueMaster> Nothing else to report at this time.
<ogra> NCommander, oh, wasnt there a c/o for asac from two meetings ago ?
<NCommander> ogra: possibly
 * ogra just remembered that qt upstream conversation thing
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<ogra> i commented on dyfet_away's apr bug
<NCommander> ogra: oh, that.that requires anoffline conversation until we can bring it back here
<ogra> his patch changes a strin thats unecessary
<ogra> if thats fixed i'll upload apr for him
<NCommander> [action] NCommander and asac to discuss qt qreal issue
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander and asac to discuss qt qreal issue
<ogra> beyond that openjdk causes more and more fallout
<NCommander> ogra: huh?, that was a buildd sucking issue
<ogra> NCommander, what ?
<NCommander> it builds properly locally
<NCommander> ogra: apr builds fine without modification expect on the buildds
<ogra> its a glibc issue as i understood lool
<ogra> and a bug against glibc is filed
 * NCommander looks at the log
<asac> NCommander: did you manage to talk to thiago at akademy about the soname (for qreal)?
<NCommander> asac: I did, hence the part where we need to talk :-)
<NCommander> asac: there are some points I need to work out with you, and I don't want to derail the meeting with them until we have a chance to compare notes
<ogra> so the qt4-x11 ftbfs is the same issue i guess ?
<ogra> which tears down kde again
<asac> NCommander: ok cool. catch me tomorrow
<NCommander> ogra: qt4-x11 is an ICE
<ogra> oh, right
<NCommander> ogra: and kdebindings is FTBFS still (though I know why its FTBFS (someone removed the support code to make ARM work))
<ogra> well, wouldnt the upstream fix change that ?
<NCommander> ogra: your assuming I've made the change upstream yet :-)
<ogra> i'm not assuming anything :)
<ogra> thus the question mark above
<NCommander> ogra: once I commit the change upstream, w'ell suck it into the next upload of KDE. The problem is that with the constant travel, I haven't had a board setup long enough in one place to actuall do all the builds I need to
<ogra> yeah, all fine, no need for excuses :)
<NCommander> ogra: heh
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> we have images !
<ogra> :)
<ogra> still
<NCommander> they exist.
 * NCommander ducks
<ogra> yeah
<NCommander> hrm
<ogra> still lots of small glitches etc
<ogra> but they generally work
<ogra> i'd indeed appreciate more testing and bug reports
<NCommander> ogra: looks like our preinstalled image support code works nicely
<NCommander> ogra: got anything else to add?
<ogra> well, i'D like to see more SD crads being tested
<GrueMaster> How many more?  I have 4.
<ogra> and i'm currently experimenting with a progressbar for resizing
<rsalveti> I'll also help with testing when I get my boards
<ogra> rsalveti, that was a secret hint for NCommander  :)
<ogra> to also test on his board
<rsalveti> ogra: nice, progress bar is always good :-)
<ogra> rsalveti, i know you will test once you have the HW :)
<rsalveti> ;-)
<ogra> yeah, i just found that resize2fs has a -p option
<ogra> just need to test how to translate that to plymouth
<ogra> or at least to a text mode
<NCommander> ogra: fun with pipes?
<ogra> yeah, something like that
<ogra> and screen scraping or so
<NCommander> ogra: you may just want to patch resize2fs to actually do something like the fsck -F option worse case scenario
<ogra> well, i havent seen the progressbar yet
<ogra> i'm still playing with the code atm
<ogra> possible that its sufficient
<ogra> anyway, nothing else about images
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<rsalveti> I can talk about the rootstock stuff now
 * NCommander points at the blank weekly reports section of the meeting from last week
<GrueMaster> Will there be a meeting next week during the sprint?
<NCommander> GrueMaster: nope
<rsalveti> I finally got an image created as user, and posted my branch at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rsalveti/project-rootstock/no-root
<rsalveti> ogra: can you take a look later?
<ogra> NCommander, can you add a rootstock section to the agenda for next meeting =
<ogra> ?
<ogra> NCommander, so rsalveti has his own slot
<rsalveti> ogra: yeah, that would help
<ogra> rsalveti, will do
<rsalveti> had some issues with qemu, fuseext2 and genext2fs
<rsalveti> but after finding the correct options, I just got the qemu bug
<NCommander> np
<rsalveti> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu-kvm/+bug/604872
<ogra> fusext2 was supposed to be researched by dyfet_away
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 604872 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "qemu-system-arm segfaults emulating versatile machine after running debootstrap --second-stage inside vm" [Undecided,New]
<rsalveti> most of the time I get a seg fault on it =\
<rsalveti> so I created a workaround at rootstock code, to run the vm more than one time
<rsalveti> and with that I'm able to create the rootfs most of the time
<rsalveti> so now I'll wait ogra review, finish it and move to the other rootstock bugs and patches
<ogra> did you test the rootfs afterwards ?
<rsalveti> and I'm running the image at my b5 beagleboard :-)
<ogra> to make sure the crash doesnt cause breakage in the image
<ogra> k
<rsalveti> ogra: yeah, did run quite fine, at least the almost 10 times I tested
<rsalveti> because the seg fault happens just after the debootstrap second stage
<rsalveti> probably when mounting proc or sysfs
<ogra> strange
<rsalveti> so I'm now checking if the bootstrap script is there on the installer script, and if not just continue
<rsalveti> and at the end you'll get the image
<ogra> try to add some schos in the installer script so you can see the exact point
<ogra> *echos
<rsalveti> ogra: yep, quite strange
<rsalveti> ogra: I did this, and even the echo got the seg fault some times
<ogra> ouch
<rsalveti> it seems that the debootstrap lets qemu in an unstable situation
<ogra> i wonder if its a kernel issue of the vm kernel
<ogra> would require some qemu testing with an image
<rsalveti> ogra: I'd also like to test a different kernel to see if this could be the issue
<rsalveti> but still needs to find/build another one
<rsalveti> but that's all from my side
<NCommander> ok, I think I can close the meeting
<NCommander> any objections?
<ogra> count down :)
<NCommander> 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> 0
<NCommander> -1
<NCommander> -2
<NCommander> -3
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:49.
<rsalveti> :P
<dyfet_away> oh wow got back from doctor just in time for the end :(
<kees> \o
<pitti> hello
<cjwatson> hi
<cjwatson> no Keybuk?
<mdz> haven't seen him
<tgardner> I just received an email from him a bit ago
<cjwatson> I've SMSed him
<tgardner> 20 minutes ago
<cjwatson> he's buried in something else; another volunteer to chair?
<cjwatson> is sabdfl going to be here?
<mdz> assume no
 * pitti is in a mumble meeting as well, so hard for me to chair right now
<mdz> my previous call is running over as well
<cjwatson> mdz: can we just shunt forward a fortnight in the cycle, which would make it your turn to chair?
<mdz> I looked at the agenda yesterday and it didn't appear to have been touched since the last meeting
<cjwatson> I added two items to it yesterday
<cjwatson> and there was already one from jono
<mdz> I added the jono one when I looked
<mdz> but he's on holiday today anyway
<pitti> jono said he's on vac today
<cjwatson> ok, I'll chair sisnce nobody else seems to want to
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:07. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
<cjwatson> of the items from two meetings ago, the only one not done was
<cjwatson> cjwatson to write up 2010-06-15 minutes
<cjwatson> I did that yesterday
<cjwatson> from last meeting:
<cjwatson> kees to check up on 174375 with bdmurray
<kees> I've been talking with him about that; it's under way.
<cjwatson> mdz to follow up with doko on toolchain, ix86 performance
<cjwatson> kees: do we need to keep it on our agenda?
<kees> they're discussing the bug at the LP sprint, so it will likely turn into a real plan soon
<kees> cjwatson: probably not; I'll keep it moving with the LP team.
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> mdz: any word from doko?
<mdz> cjwatson: yes, he replied to t-b@
<mdz> in fact I think this action was closed at the last meeting
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> Review PostReleaseApps/Process (jono)
<cjwatson> oops
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Review PostReleaseApps/Process (jono)
<doko> test results and fixes are there, we should be ready to switch, but maybe lets discuss this on Mon
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review PostReleaseApps/Process (jono)
<cjwatson> do we want to discuss this today, given that jono is away?  he sent mail asking for feedback, I don't see any on the list
<mdz> I've been involved with reviewing it already
<mdz> so I've already given my feedback and it's been mostly incorporated I think
<cjwatson> I confess that I am not yet ready to vote on it
<pitti> me neither, I'm afraid
<mdz> actions to review by next meeting?
<pitti> I'll put it to my TODO list to review it by next meeting
<cjwatson> and perhaps to vote by e-mail
<cjwatson> I'll take an action to review and chivvy
<pitti> email vote WFM, too
<cjwatson> [ACTION] cjwatson to drive review/vote on PostReleaseApps/Process
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to drive review/vote on PostReleaseApps/Process
<cjwatson> let's move on, my apologies for not being better prepared there
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Karmic kernel packaging changes (cjwatson)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic kernel packaging changes (cjwatson)
<cjwatson> I invited kernel folks here today to discuss this; I see tgardner and smb
<smb> I am here
<tgardner> here is the discussion link: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-July/011545.html
<mdz> welcome, kernel folks
<cjwatson> I was just about to start typing a summary; thanks for saving me the effort. :)
<pitti> smb: the other day we talked about providing a more stripped down diff which filters out the renames; is that available somewhere?
<cjwatson> my response when asked to approve this by the kernel team was that I felt that it was explicitly outside the remit of what I was allowed to approve as an SRU team member
<smb> pitti, I thought you were on cc of that email apw sent
<cjwatson> I advised that the TB would be the appropriate body to take a decision
<mdz> I think I recall the previous iteration of this discussion
<mdz> where there was a question about whether substantial packaging changes were OK for SRU
<pitti> smb: I was CC'ed to a thread, yes; but I didn't see a filtered patch?
<smb> pitti, Ok, I might resend it
<mdz> I believe I took the position that if the resulting .debs were equivalent (easy to confirm), and everything built OK on all architectures, there were cases where this was appropriate to do
<smb> pitti, There was a diff inlined
<pitti> my concern is that whatever the potential benefit is, ensuring that all packages still are built the same way on all arches, and rule out weird race conditions, compiler flags, etc., is very very expensive
<mdz> i.e. the most important aspects of the packaging can be tested for correctness
<cjwatson> in general, we reject substantial packaging changes from SRUs.  However, I realise that the kernel is arguably a special case here given the extent of maintenance and number of complex packages involved.  What I don't want is for this to turn into a precedent for other packages, because then the floodgates open wide
<tgardner> mdz, that has been my philosophy
<pitti> and I can't vouch for that, so I don't feel like putting my approval stamp on it TBH
<mdz> I have not seen any of the proposed changes in this case, so I can't comment on what the risks are
<tgardner> pitti, these packaging changes won't affect compiler flags.
<mdz> that link doesn't seem to have information on the actual code changes
<smb> pitti, Though most if not all changes are outside the upstream kernel build infrastructure, so bulding itself would not be affected
<mdz> e.g. a debdiff
<pitti> smb: ah no, I didn't get a mail from apw, I was just on tgardner's thread
<cjwatson> I can produce a debdiff given a moment
<smb> Our test was to debdiff all binary packages to see those contain the same files
<pitti> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50067689/linux_2.6.31-21.59_2.6.31-22.61.diff.gz
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50067689/linux_2.6.31-21.59_2.6.31-22.61.diff.gz
<tgardner> the debdiff is large because of the number of renames. what I'd like to do is to produce before and after packages and show that they are identical.
<cjwatson> I am curious what changes the kernel team would feel to be unacceptable in packaging
<tgardner> I guess changes that affected the content of the binary packages produced?
<tgardner> does that make sense?
<smb> pitti, forward just sent to you kees cjwatson mdz
<mdz> smb: thanks
<kees> cool
<mdz> if it's possible to get a bzr-style diff which doesn't exaggerate the amount of change due to renames, that would be ideal
<tgardner> mdz, we'd have to work on that, so not likely by the end of this meeting.
<cjwatson> except these changes do seem to affect the content in certain ways, for example linux-image-debug -> dbgsym
<smb> mdz, I am not sure we can provide bzr style, but the mail forwarded contains hints about similarity
<mdz> tgardner: that's OK; I think the TB should be concerned with the general principle here, rather than this specific changeset
<tgardner> I'd also like to point out tat we intend to do this for Hardy (eventually)
<apw> i believe the email smb just forwarded has the git diff which has the renames in it
<mdz> hmm, package renames could be problematic
<smb> mdz, not package renames
<smb> mdz, renamed fieles in the infrastructure
<cjwatson> linux-image-debug (-> dbgsym) ends up on ddebs.ubuntu.com rather than in the archive
<cjwatson> -Package: linux-image-debug-2.6.31-21-generic
<cjwatson> +Package: linux-image-2.6.31-22-generic-dbgsym
<apw> cjwatson, though the current implementation is also pushing those over to ddebs
<smb> cjwatson, Ok, that is a change that we were actually asked to do
<cjwatson> apw: what I'm trying to get at is the truth
<cjwatson> I'm being told "no changes in the content of the binary packages" <small>except for this one</small>
<pitti> right, that ddeb rename is fine
<cjwatson> which other ones are we missing? :-)
<smb> no package other than ddebs afaik. apw?
<cjwatson> I don't have a problem with that particular change given that pitti is the ddeb-meister and asked for it
<pitti> so if all the changes don't affect the contents and don't affect the build flags, why do we have to put them into an SRU in the first place?
<apw> cjwatson, after hardy those packages have always gone to ddebs regardless of names, the first is bodged specifically as i understands things
<cjwatson> apw: that's sort of beside my point; I'm trying to ask which other content changes are in there, given that it's clearly not zero
<smb> pitti, The main reason is that builds have evolved into being the same but sometimes with slight differences
<smb> and those differences are error prone
<smb> especially as Lucid arm trees are based on Karmic kernel versions
<apw> cjwatson, yep i get your point, and am trying to work out how to answer your question without making things less clear
<pitti> if there are helper scripts in there which are mainly interesting for git maintenance etc., then they could be removed from the packaging altogether?
<smb> So the goal was to have one build infrastructure that we can get eventually to be applied to all releases
<tgardner> smb means with each release we've accumulated some cruft, and now we're trying to fix some of that cruft.
<pitti> even if we figure out the changes this time, we'll have this conversation all over again the next time we update the packaging from trunk to stables
<cjwatson> nobody else gets to update their cruft in stable releases, though; what the TB needs to consider is why the kernel is different
<mdz> pitti: right, hence my feeling that we should focus on the general principle instead
<cjwatson> (IMO)
<apw> the update commit contains a changelog fragment u
<mdz> and provide some guidance to the SRU team on how to handle situations like this
<pitti> and given that karmic isn't LTS and 8 months old, it should not get that much changes any more
<apw> indicating which changes are carried over
<tgardner> cjwatson, because we have a dozen (or more) source code packages?
<mdz> I don't see anything kernel-specific here, except insofar as the kernel happens to be one of the packages which sees the most change in stable
<cjwatson> for the record, I object less to this if the TB approves it; what I really objected to was feeling like I was being leant on by management to approve something explicitly contrary to the policy I've been instructed to uphold
<cjwatson> so I want to go through the proper process
<mdz> that sounds reasonable enough
<mdz> so the question here is, under what circumstances should substantive packaging changes be permissible in SRU?
<mdz> (if any)
<smb> Probably a big difference to other packages is that we carry several other packages (arm, ec2) which are based on the main repo and depend on a common infrastucture to be maintainable
<kees> as far as compiler flags, etc -- both old an new packages could be rebuilt with V=1 and the build logs compared...
<mdz> kees: unless they compile in parallel, of course
<smb> which we do
<apw> though a sort could fix any ordering constraints on the results
<kees> mdz: the security team has tools that handle that comparison pretty well.
<mdz> kees: oh, neat
<cjwatson> mdz: IMO, aside from risk management, there has to be a pressing need - that is, the risk of making the change has to be less than the risk of not making it, in terms of maintainability constraints etc.
<mdz> kees: share :-)
<cjwatson> the kernel team is saying, AIUI, that the error rate from not having their substantive packaging changes is riskier than leaving things as they are
<cjwatson> I can respect that position, but I would like not to be put in the position where 100 other maintainers show up asking for similar things
 * smb nods
<cjwatson> because we won't be able to cope
<kees> mdz: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/ubuntu-security-tools/trunk/annotate/head:/build-tools/diff-reorder
<mdz> I think that if the changes can be verified to be true refactorings (i.e. not introducing changes to the binary packages), and the team responsible for maintenance feels the payoff is worth it, we should be open to that
<cjwatson> perhaps, for the time being, we should simply limit this explicitly to the kernel, with a rationale
<mdz> if we set some guidelines, I think that would keep the floodgates closed
<cjwatson> I don't want it to be an option advertised for everyone to use
<kees> (with http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/ubuntu-security-tools/trunk/annotate/head:/build-tools/buildlog-compare)
<pitti> cjwatson: me neither
<cjwatson> it's perhaps also worth noting that the kernel is one of the biggest users of stable updates
<smb> I think there isn't any package being that complex either
<kees> firefox falls into this category too ...
<cjwatson> smb: you'd be surprised ...
<pitti> and we already are a lot less strict with kernel changes than for other SRUs, so in practice it's already special
<cjwatson> (along with the desktop, but they generally don't update packaging)
<kees> but it's doing even larger updates
<cjwatson> the rationale for firefox is, similarly, that the risk of not doing so is greater
<cjwatson> more or less
 * kees nods
<mdz> cjwatson: a decision on the kernel in general would be better than deciding on this change specifically
<mdz> but it doesn't smell right
<cjwatson> the change, or the approach?
<mdz> the approach
<mdz> if there are reasons why the kernel warrants such an exception, it should apply to other packages which have the same reasons
<mdz> and if we don't agree on what those reasons are, the kernel shouldn't get an exception just because it's the kernel
<mdz> the idea of the kernel having looser change control, while being one of our most critical components, gives me the willies
<mdz> (especially when pitti says that this is already the case in practice)
<tgardner> mdz, don't forget that is kernel(s), not just the one. there are a bunch of them we're producing.
<cjwatson> the bar certainly needs to be set high; it's vital that the SRU team has the ability to say no, otherwise we're just a rubber-stamp bureau and what's the point
<mdz> yes, and I accept that when there is a lot of divergence in the packaging, this increases the risk of mistakes being made in updates
<mdz> has the SRU team said no to this?
<pitti> the scope of code changes has been discussed several times as well, but I think eventually the SRU team just started to swallow them as they come in
<mdz> is this an appeal, or a request for guidance?
<cjwatson> I said no, and that the kernel team could appeal to the TB
<mdz> I see
<cjwatson> specifically I said no because I felt that it was outside my range of permitted discretion
<cjwatson> more perhaps than because I thought it was intrinsically wrong
<tgardner> I contend that it'll reduce the number of mistakes we might make if packaging is common across all of the kernel branches.
<pitti> same for me; with the diff just sent it's a lot easier to review, but when I saw it the first time there was no way for me to say "yes, this is ok:
<pitti> s/:/"/
<mdz> the diffstat from apw looks pretty manageable
<pitti> with the renamings it's a little easier, but still a "{debian.master => debian}/rules.d/0-common-vars.mk" doesn't say muc
<pitti> since it puts a previously inert file into action
<cjwatson> so reasons I can think of why the kernel is special:
<cjwatson>  * high flow of changes through updates
<cjwatson>  * many different packages synchronised across multiple releases
<cjwatson>  * significant degree of autogeneration in packaging
<cjwatson> (in terms of rationale for the change, not in terms of the change itself)
<cjwatson> what else?
<pitti> "many maintainers" perhaps?
<apw> pitti, actually it moves a file which the reference also changes from the old to the new
<cjwatson> I don't know of any other packages meeting those descriptions right now
<mdz> cjwatson: I'd say specifically a high flow of changes across multiple releases
<pitti> "training new maintainers on the packaging"
<apw> "multiple versions in each release"
<smb> pitti, Oh yeah. Good one as well
<cjwatson> (BTW I also said that I'd abstain in a vote on this since I was involved in the initial, er, full and frank debate)
<mdz> cjwatson: I think we need to establish what the question is that we're voting on
<mdz> if it's "does the SRU team have the authority to decide this?" then that is an easy yes
<mdz> so if you said "no" on the grounds that you felt it was beyond the SRU team's mandate to decide, maybe we can address that governance issue rather than the technical question here
<mdz> (easy yes - for me)
<cjwatson> the precedent is that the SRU team does not have authority to make big changes to the SRU policy itself; that's why previous changes to that policy have been brought to the TB
<cjwatson> such as the micro-release exceptions stuff
<pitti> I had thought it was "extend the SRU policy to allow repackaging for the kernel"?
<cjwatson> pitti: *nod*
<smb> pitti, Actually not repackaging but change the build infrastructure as an SRU
<cjwatson> SRU policy changes have always gone to the TB before
<cjwatson> smb: the wide term for this in the distribution is repackaging
<smb> ok
<cjwatson> (when the changes are this substantial)
<cjwatson> but if you feel the term is emotive, we can choose a different one
<pitti> smb: right, I consider the build infrastructure part of the packaging
<pitti> but calling it "change build system" WFM
<smb> No, I probably just had a different understanding of packaging
<cjwatson> packaging> stuff under debian/
<cjwatson> well, debian*/ in your case :)
<smb> Right: :)
<smb> I can live with that
<cjwatson> I'd like a straw-poll to check that the board in general, well, isn't implacably opposed to this change
<mdz> I would be happy to support amending the SRU policy to say that repackaging is discouraged in general (for specified reasons), but the SRU team has the authority to make exceptions to this if the risk is bounded, and offset by the maintenance benefits
<cjwatson> I'm willing to draft such a policy if the board feels that it would support it
<pitti> it would basically mean to put the SRU review into "blind mode" though
<kees> I would support it if it included the "why the kernel is special" list as part of the guidelines for what makes an exception
<mdz> I agree with cjwatson that we don't want to open this up generally
<pitti> so we need to see if that's considered acceptable
<cjwatson> pitti: "blind mode"> could you expand on that?
<mdz> pitti: why?
<smb> pitti, Probably requiring some defined guidlines on what is required to provide as test that this changes are acceptable
<pitti> I can't look at the delta and confirm that the changes are safe and don't introduce regression potential
<mdz> pitti: don't you, in some cases, rely on other sources of information (such as testing) to confirm that changes are safe?
<cjwatson> I'm not accusing the kernel team of being malicious here; I'm happy to take them at their word when they present things like debdiffs of the completed binary packages, provided that we can still use our judgement on that evidence
<apw> pitti, we have generally looked at packaging changes as 'trivially testable' in that if the binary packages are the same before and after this change then they are benign
<pitti> the large majority of SRUs just add a small patch or a small packaging fix (dependencies, etc.) and are rather easy to review; a not too small number are upstream microversion updates, where we usually filter out the autoconf noise and review the rest
<apw> cjwatson, and from our side we are more than willing to do whatever we need to to make your team comfortable
<pitti> apw: that won't spot compiler flags, configuration changes, or weird linker errors, though
<apw> knowing that you cannot understand the packaging at the level of detail that we might
<pitti> so while a binary debdiff is important, it's not really sufficient
<cjwatson> kees' toolset for log comparison ought to help
<apw> pitti, if any of those were different its not clear how the binaries could be identicle
<kees> it's not perfect, but it helps.
<pitti> so, I'm not saying that I totally oppose to what I called "blind mode" above, but we need to be aware of the fact
<mdz> pitti: if it were possible to break this change up into smaller chunks, each of which was easier to review, and which didn't change the package output, would that make it acceptable to you?
<apw> pitti, in the comparisons i did when doing the changes in later releases they had the same md5sum
<cjwatson> given general authorisation from the TB to do this at all, I think that I would be willing to accept a comparison of binary metadata, binary file lists, and build logs on all architectures
<mdz> pitti: in the kernel case, the configuration does get bundled into the package, so a binary debdiff would catch that, no?
<cjwatson> and trust to testing to catch errors beyond that
<pitti> apw: comparing build logs with kees script plus binary debdiff together sounds rather safe, WDYT?
<mdz> I agree
<pitti> mdz: oh, how so?
<mdz> pitti: I assume you're talking about the build configuration, i.e. /boot/config-`uname -r`
<pitti> mdz: debdiff on .debs just shows the file additions/removals, not the file content diffs, after all
<pitti> mdz: yes, that
<mdz> pitti: oh, of course. yes, naturally the contents need to be compared as well
<apw> pitti, right we have beeing doing the binary debdiffs internally before submission, clearly you cannot see that with the current process
<cjwatson> yes, it would have to be a content comparison of the text files
<pitti> apw: yes, I trust you on that; my concern is/was just that there is a lot of other changes which could happen which doesn't reflect in debdiff
<mdz> I forgot that debdiff didn't show the changes to files in the binary packages
<cjwatson> ok, I think we have something approaching consensus.  how about I go off and draft a chunk of policy text for this?
<cjwatson> no offence to anyone but I really don't want ever to have to have this conversation again ;-)
<kees> :)
<pitti> ++
<apw> pitti, i would not want you to think i don't hear your concerns, they are valid and it is your job as gate keeper to keep us honest
<mdz> +1
<mdz> cjwatson: you mentioned you felt pressured in your SRU role to let this through despite it being beyond your mandate as you understood it. is that an issue we should discuss?
<pitti> so, if we can get a build log/compiler flag/config diff check in addition, I'm happy to review the stripped down patch; it's a lot easier than the 3.2 MB monster that Launchpad threw at us
<cjwatson> perhaps, but maybe over beer
<smb> Actually I was for now to ask cjwatson to reject the current uploads
<cjwatson> we're running out of time in this meeting
<mdz> I want to support a strong SRU team which can push back on developers on behalf of users
<mdz> ok
<pitti> another thing to consider is that very few developers still run karmic
<pitti> (i. e. the folks who would come to us and tell us about regressions)
<pitti> wrt. the "spot regressions in proposed" part
<cjwatson> my last item is very quick, and then perhaps we can take the rest to e-mail given that we have rough consensus here
<smb> pitti, Just to say that but Lucid fsl-imx51 is Karmic kernel
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] DMB member replacement (cjwatson)
<MootBot> New Topic:  DMB member replacement (cjwatson)
<cjwatson> The DMB has received a resignation note from Richard Johnson
<cjwatson> I'm ashamed to say I have no idea of the procedure for replacing him
<cjwatson> Do DMB members need to be nominated by sabdfl?
 * pitti tries to remember how we nominated the first board, aside from the existing TB/MOTU boards
<mdz> we bootstrapped DMB by double-booking the TB
<mdz> and then solicited nominations from developers
<mdz> i.e. developers were nominated by their peers, and then there was a general election
<pitti> IMHO we should do the same: advertise the vacancy on u-d-a@ and then vote
<mdz> agreed
<cjwatson> OK, I'll sort that out then, thanks
<mdz> I think the DMB itself can manage the election this time
<cjwatson> sucks to be us ;-)
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<cjwatson> ok, that'd be nothing then
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:04.
<cjwatson> thanks all, I think this was productive
<pitti> thanks everyone
<JFo> o/
<cnd> o/
<lag> o/
 * manjo zooms in
 * JFo mans the flak cannon
<JFo> :)
 * smb looks with one eye
<jjohansen> \o
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (lag)
<lag>  - Marvel (mvl-dove)
<lag>     - Nothing new this week
<lag>  - Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<lag>     - Nothing new this week
<lag>  - Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    - REBASE   : ti-omap4 branch is now at 901.4.
<lag>    - PATCH    : Patches applied which raise uevents to load Syslink driver modules
<lag>    - PATCH    : ti-omap4 patches posted for review - sebjan requested to do the same
<lag>    - PATCH    : Several patches from TI have been reviewed and merged into our kernel
<lag>    - ON GOING : B593650 was once again reproducible - this is next on mpoirier's hit-list
<lag>    - ON GOING : B601226 patch has been sent upstream - awaiting feedback
<lag>    - ON GOING : B592295 a patch and RFC has been set out by TI - awaiting feedback
<lag>    - ON GOING : B477106 is sleeping until further notice
<lag>    - FIXED    : B594382 was fixed in rc4 - was probing for daisy-chain event rather than daisy-chain en bit
<lag> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (4 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Alpha 3 Milestoned Bugs (46 across all packages (down 5)) ====
<JFo>  * 4 linux kernel bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ti-omap bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (102 across all packages (down 5)) ====
<JFo>  * 7 linux kernel bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs
<JFo>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs
<JFo>  * 3 linux-ti-omap bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> === Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 14 blueprints
<JFo> *** NOTE: This listing includes HWE Blueprints***
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:120 (up 5) ====
<JFo>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<JFo>  * Breakdown by status:
<JFo>    http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<jjohansen> Bug #599450 - more complicated than originally though due to semantic issues.  atm done with kernel side, current plan is to handle rest user side.
<jjohansen> Bug #602261 - looks to be AppArmor exacerbating Bug #600359.  Have applied
<jjohansen> a kernel patch that should reduce this by adjusting AA policy memory allocations,
<jjohansen> and have also applied some patches to user space tools reduce memory usage.
<jjohansen> Bug #581524 - Partial kernel fix in place, still triggers in one case that is currently being examined.   Userspace portion of fix is being tested.
<jjohansen> Next submit is queued, and ready to go out pending regression tests that are running on the updated rebase.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599450
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602261 in linux (Ubuntu) "Thrashing and OOM during upgrade from 10.04 to Maverick" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600359 in ureadahead (Ubuntu Maverick) "ureadahead generating oom messages during boot." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600359
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581524 in Ubuntu Manual "string 392 missing, "you" and "your"" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581524
<jjohansen> ..
<JFo> that last bug looks odd
<JFo> ..
<jjohansen> indeed that is right
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<apw> Nothing new to report.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<bjf> Nothing new this week.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<jjohansen> Received confirmation from Amazon contacts that pv-ops based kernels should work in EC2, and that the xsave hypercall needs to be disabled or there will be issues with booting kernels.
<jjohansen> Have built a test kernel but haven't tested yet.
<jjohansen> JFo: it was Bug #581525
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581525 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Lucid: system becomes unstable randomly, seems related with apparmor" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581525
<JFo> ah :)
<jjohansen> ..
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<ogasawara> Nothing new to report this week.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review
<ogasawara> Nothing new to report this week.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<JFo> Location chosen for the Triage Summit. It will be a combination of the #ubuntu-classroom and the #ubuntu-kernel channels. The classroom will be for the instructional sessions and the kernel channel will be used for wiki development and further discussion. Let me know your thoughts on this. We'll be discussing classes, scheduling and topics at the Rally next week.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<apw> Nothing new to report.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<bjf> no cking i guess
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Maverick kernel was rebased to the latest 2.6.35-rc4 mainline kernel last week and is currently availble for testing in the latest 2.6.35-7.12 upload.  2.6.35-rc5 was released yesterday.  We'll rebase our Maverick tree today and upload for testing.
<ogasawara> Alpha 3 is Thurs Aug 5th which is ~3weeks away.  We are above the Alpha 3 burn down chart's trend line, so please review the list of work items for Alpha 3 and start closing out tasks.  Remember you won't have as much time to tackle work items next week due to the sprint.
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<ogasawara> ..
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> Dapper:      2.6.15-55.84  (security)
<smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-28.71  (updates)
<smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-19.61  (security)
<smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-22.60  (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-22.61  (waiting for approval)
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-214.28 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-214.29 (waiting for approval)
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-112.28 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-112.29 (waiting for approval)
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-307.15 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-307.16 (waiting for approval)
<smb> Lucid:       2.6.32-23.37  (updates)
<smb>              2.6.32-24.38  (proposed)[ 8]  1/ 4 verifications done (+ 1)
<smb>  - LBM       2.6.32-24.17  (proposed)[ 7]  0/ 1 verifications done
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.32-206.19 (updates)
<smb>              2.6.32-207.20 (proposed)[ 5]  1/ 4 verifications done (+ 1)
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-608.15 (updates)
<smb>  - ti-omap   2.6.33-502.8  (updates)
<smb>  - qcm-msm   2.6.31-802.5  (updates)
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.32-307.12 (updates)
<smb>              2.6.32-308.13 (proposed)[ 5]  1/ 4 verifications done (+ 1)
<smb> Security update is prepared and pending, waiting for Lucid proposed moving to
<smb> updates.
<smb> ..
<smb> Err, actually
<smb> Karmic uploads have been rejected on my request for now
<smb> We try to restore normality if we know what that is anyway.
<smb> ..
 * apw laughs :)
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 59 Maverick Bugs (up 9)
<JFo> 1049 Lucid Bugs (up 21)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 35 maverick bugs (up 8)
<JFo>   * 223 lucid bugs (down 1: to be converted to regression-release)
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 40 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 6 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 4 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 1 hardy bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 160 lucid bugs (up 9)
<JFo>   * 45 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 19 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 2 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> I've been slack in moving Lucid bugs from r-p to r-r
<JFo> but will get back on that week after next
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> The Community bug Day next week has been canceled due to the Platform Rally. It will resume the week after the Rally. I'll be sending an e-mail update next week concerning the items that we will be focusing on. Also, it was determined that there is a need to hold our Kernel Tema Bug Day earlier in this week due to the travel time needed to arrive at the Platform Rally. We will be holding the Team Bug Day tomorrow, Wednesday 14 July. The expectatio
<JFo> n is that all platform kernel engineers will look at a minimum of 5 bugs each. The day will start at 8AM PST and run for about 3 hours. This is so that we can chat about the bugs being worked so as to avoid duplicating any efforts.
<JFo> there is a calendar item for the bug day tomorrow.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<JFo> o/
<kamal> o/
<bjf> Please note that there will not be a Kernel team meeting next week.
<bjf> JFo, go
<JFo> There is a kernel triage chat tomorrow afternoon at 4PM EST
<JFo> any Kernel Engineers interested in backing me up are welcome to attend :)
<JFo> ..
<ogasawara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek -> more info there
<JFo> thanks ogasawara
<JFo> :)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> kamal, go
<kamal> bug 594837 (my usual topic)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594837 in linux (Ubuntu) "Lucid SRU: Intel Core i3/i5/i7 hang on resume from suspend (SCI_EN)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/594837
<kamal> This is still pending review at stable@kernel.org (4 weeks).   I think this affects a good number of users who would like it fixed in Lucid sooner rather than later.  I think its a safe fix (its in Maverick).
<kamal> Is it time for us to SRU this for Lucid or shall we continue to wait for stable?
<apw> well lucid is now undergoing a security update, so it'll be a while before we can put anything new in there
<smb> kamal, Right
<kamal> may as well let it wait another week then :-)
<kamal> ..
<smb> kamal, Don't expect things to change next week
<smb> kamal, There is a sprint going on... :)
<kamal> ok, another *two* weeks then!  ;-)
<kamal> ..
<smb> ..
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:17.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<manjo> thanks bjf
<kamal> thanks bjf
<JFo> we are an efficient machine :)
<kamal> yeah, fastest kernel team meeting ever
<sommer> o//
<SpamapS> o/
<hallyn> \o
<ccheney> hi
<jiboumans> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<smoser> \o
 * smoser is scribe
<ttx> o/
<jiboumans> smoser is chair!
<hggdh> ~o~
<SpamapS> =
<smoser> ok. so i guess we go.
<smoser> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:02. The chair is smoser.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
 * ttx bows to the Big Smoser
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> [TOPIC] ...
<smoser> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> sommer waiting on mdke re: refresh issue
<smoser> (that is our only action point)
<smoser> sommer, ?
<smoser> hm... sommer was here 5 minutes ago.
<sommer> I think it was fixed
<ttx> yes
<sommer> yep it's updated
<smoser> ok.
<ttx> sommer: thanks !
<smoser> [TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development (jib)
<jiboumans> I sent out the Alpha3 update to the mailinglist the other day
<jiboumans> we're mostly on track for the high priority blueprints: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-3.html
<jiboumans> but we're very heavily loaded this cycle
<jiboumans> Low prio blueprints are at risk of being postponed
<jiboumans> none-feature stuff can be moved to the Betas, but feature development may have to wait until Maverick+1 for those
<jiboumans> Apport hooks are a special case here and we have an agenda item for that further down
<jiboumans> ttx, can you take us through the specific blueprints here?
<ttx> the specific blueprints that may have to wait, or those that are Low and might need to be postponed ?
<jiboumans> sorry, i meant the next item on the agenda
<jiboumans> the subcycle tracking :)
<ttx> ah!
 * jiboumans notices his segway was no where nearly as smooth as imagined
<smoser> sorry
<smoser> [TOPIC] Alpha3 subcycle status (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha3 subcycle status (ttx)
<ttx> I don't have so much to add to your brilliant analysis
<SpamapS> jiboumans: more hand waving
<ttx> I'd like to have more work items burnt
<ttx> since it looks like we didn't do any work, while I know it's not the case
 * SpamapS has got a fever, and the only prescription, is more hand waving
<jiboumans> seconding what ttx said; several people under 10% completion now is a red flag
<SpamapS> ttx: I'm spinning on a few in parallel due to external factors (mostly debian sponsorship/bugs/etc), I'd expect 3 or 4 to go DONE all at once.
<ttx> i'll have discussions with spec assignees soon to confirm expectations
<ttx> SpamapS: ack, next time try to decorrelate work and sponsoring wait to avoid that
<ccheney> my uec provisioning work is very interrelated and i think i can probably get them all done quickly once i get one blocker resolved
<ttx> package FOO / package BAR / get sponsoring for FOO and BAR
<ttx> that allows to keep the ball smoothly rolling
<jiboumans> ccheney: what's your blocking factor?
<SpamapS> ttx: we can discuss later to make sure I've done that properly (I think I may have.. and its just that they're all in the "get sponsoring for FOO and BAR" state now)
<ttx> SpamapS: ah! that happens :)
<ccheney> jiboumans, powerwake seems to need to write to the home directory but when running from apache2 has none, so it blows up
<ccheney> jiboumans, i'm not sure how this worked in the past but it doesn't work for me while trying to set it up due to that
<ccheney> i thought it was an issue with the machines i was using not waking up properly, which seemed to happen occasionally but the main issue was the home dir problem
<jiboumans> ccheney: i assume worst case you can workaround manually and continue testing?
<ccheney> jiboumans, well to get it working in a packaged and tested manner i need to get that part resolved asap
<ccheney> i emailed kirkland but it appears he may be off atm?
<SpamapS> ttx: as a side issue, I need to chat w/ Mathias a bit about some things that aare 90% done in the monitoring spec, so those should roll to DONE or even come off the list altogether after I talk to him.
<hallyn> yeah he's at a conf
<jiboumans> ccheney: he's at a conference
<ccheney> jiboumans, oh ok
<ttx> SpamapS: ok, you seem to be on top of it
<ccheney> is there a better version of uec.py somewhere other than kirkland's bzr repo? i wasn't sure if it was the main branch
<ttx> smoser: that's all from me
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> ccheney: I think kirkland has the most recent one
<ttx> ccheney: it's a merge from several code bases, including mine
<ccheney> ok
<SpamapS> hggdh: Just a comment, I had no idea about the UEC rig, thanks for emailing that info!
<jiboumans> hggdh: i see the blueprint for server-maverick-qa-workflow is progressing nicely
<hggdh> jiboumans: yes... I had to stop for a while on the UEC testing to cater for the other tasks/blueprints
<jiboumans> hggdh: is it worth a section in one of the coming meetings to introduce people to it (or some blog posts?)
<hggdh> jiboumans: about the internal UEC rig ?
<jiboumans> hggdh: server-maverick-qa-workflow
<hggdh> ah. Sorry. Yes, it would be a good idea
<jiboumans> hggdh: i trust you'll add it to the agenda when appropriate?
<hggdh> jiboumans: albeit trusting me has been proved to be dangerous, yes, I will add it in
<jiboumans> hggdh: already editing the blueprint with a WI ;)
<hggdh> LOL
<smoser> [ACTION] hggdh to discuss server-maverick-qa-workflow at future meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  hggdh to discuss server-maverick-qa-workflow at future meeting
<jiboumans> hggdh: at my age, i can hardly trust my brain to remember things
<smoser> moving on ?
 * hggdh wonders about self's age...
<hggdh> I am done, smoser
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> sorry, can't seem to find my notes now
<smoser> [TOPIC] Bug 597387: Maverick EC2 kernel issue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug 597387: Maverick EC2 kernel issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597387 in Ubuntu Maverick "pv-ops kernel only works in 3 or 4 zones in EC2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597387
<jiboumans> smoser: did you give me an update on that one yesterday? or was that unrelated?
<jjohansen> so we received confirmation from Amazon contacts that pv-ops kernels work on EC2 and that they need xsave hypercall disabled
<smoser> i dont think it was related. i dont recall anything yesterday.
<smoser> jjohansen is on top of it.
<jjohansen> I have built a pv-ops kernel but haven't tested it yet
<smoser> so new kernel built and awating test in different regions ?
<jjohansen> awaits any boot testing
<jjohansen> I just haven't gotten that far yet
<jjohansen> but that should happen this afternoon
<smoser> great.
<jjohansen> Bug #576066
<smoser> [TOPIC] Bug 576066: ums-cypress.ko missing from server installer
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug 576066: ums-cypress.ko missing from server installer
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576066 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) "ums_cypress missing from lucid server cd" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576066
<jjohansen> Tim has prioritized, and is taking care of this
<smoser> [TOPIC] atop kernel patch
<MootBot> New Topic:  atop kernel patch
<jiboumans> jjohansen: i only saw a handful of replies on the mailing-list
<jjohansen> there hasn't been any more input on this yet
<jjohansen> as it stands I don't see the kernel team picking up the patches
<jiboumans> jjohansen: the use case highlighted of seeing what process is using bandwidth and the historical resource consumption are the two use cases i know
<jjohansen> right
 * ttx struggles a bit with his connection
<jiboumans> if there are alternate tools, that would be good to know of. i dont know any though
<jiboumans> jjohansen: do you know of any that could provide that functionality instead?
<jjohansen> jiboumans: I am not aware of any either
<SpamapS> Honestly, since discovering atop when I first heard about this, I've used it twice for my own issues, and a friend who I told about it used it to solve a pretty serious IO problem on his production servers.
<jiboumans> jjohansen: ok, i'll chime in on the thread
<SpamapS> atop is t3h awesome
<jiboumans> it is
<jjohansen> htop is better than top but I don't think it does
<jjohansen> SpamapS, jiboumans: please chime in
<SpamapS> nothing I've ever seen can tell me which process is doing which IO operations
<jiboumans> doing so now
<ttx> there is a EC2 performance issue filed against "Ubuntu on EC2", I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to get to its bug number
<smoser> [ACTION] jiboumans to chime in on atop thread
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jiboumans to chime in on atop thread
<smoser> bug 574910: I've been pinged again on this, per erichammond, it is preventing pe
<smoser> ople from moving to lucid as perceived performance drop.  It would be really nic
<smoser> e to address it.  even if we can't fix it, to clearly state that performance is
<smoser> the same as it was or better (maybe some benchmarks?)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<jjohansen> jiboumans: also if this is really import let pete/tim know
<smoser> (that is ttx's bug probably)
<ttx> smoser: yes, thanks
<SpamapS> We should also contact the KSLM author about this, which is probably "the right way" for atop to function
<jjohansen> smoser: right, in my limited testing it looked like accounting but we need to do some more testing
<jjohansen> SpamapS: KSLM?
<SpamapS> www.headinthecloud.net  and  http://launchpad.net/kslm
<SpamapS> Cole Crawford
<jjohansen> ah, thanks
<SpamapS> I spoke with him at UDS about some unrelated monitoring stuff..
<SpamapS> but I think kslm is an attempt to do what atop does, but in a less invasive way
<jjohansen> okay, we need to look into it then
<jiboumans> SpamapS: chime in on the thread? :)
<smoser> ok. so, we really need to address the bug 574910 one way or another.  I hesitate to ask here for how, as I believe its going to result in work for me.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<jiboumans> action smoser to just fix it? ;)
<jjohansen> smoser: I will make some time to look at it again tomorrow
<smoser> we really, really, really dont want people using our images to stay on karmic or hardy.
<jjohansen> the kt is doing a bug day, and its on my list
<smoser> jjohansen, ok. thank you. please get something there.  i realize its probably just a bad metric, but it appears at least to be a popular bad metric.
<SpamapS> jiboumans: chiming. :)
<smoser> anyone have anything else for jjohansen ?
<jiboumans> jjohansen: smells of io
<jiboumans> jjohansen++ # kernel hackery
 * jjohansen needs a shower
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<sommer> don't have anything new this week, but should have some updates for next week
<sommer> anyone else have questions comments for me?
<jiboumans> sommer: maybe out of your scope, but i get questions about cloud-init / cloud-config regularly
<jiboumans> are we covering this in our docs as well?
 * smoser ducks
<sommer> jiboumans: not too sure, but I can definitely check on that for next week
<jiboumans> it's mostly 'how do i..' and then 'oh that is so easy with cloud-*'
<smoser> [ACTION] sommer to check on getting some cloud-init / cloud-config doc
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to check on getting some cloud-init / cloud-config doc
<jiboumans> sommer: that'd be great. they're amazing tools but not everyone's discoverd them yet
<sommer> cool, I'll focus on updating that section
<jiboumans> sommer++ thanks
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review (zul)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review (zul)
<jiboumans> ttx, can you take that?
<jiboumans> zul's at a conference today and i dont think he managed to join in
<zul> actually im here briefly
<jiboumans> awesome
<jiboumans> zul: then, if you don't mind
<zul> we have recieved 2 requests this week
<zul> the list went out on monday both are virt related i dnot have the bug numbers in front of me though
<zul> so they will be looked at on friday and be added to the list for next week
<hallyn> bug #579584
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 579584 in libvirt (Ubuntu) "setgid, setuid needed by /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/libvirt-qemu" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/579584
<zul> thats one of them ;)
<smoser> i nominated bug 598649 .
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 598649 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "cannot boot grub multiboot image with kvm -kernel" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/598649
<smoser> it will require some hallyn work, but a working backport would allow us to run maverick guests with instance-servicable kernels in lucid hosts.
<hallyn> smoser: hm, the problem with that one is we'd have to do pretty big updates for kvm+seabios for lucid
<smoser> hallyn, yeah. i expected that as a possibility.
<hallyn> i.e. we'd have to update to qemu 12.4
<jiboumans> the other is bug #603363
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603363 in openssh (Ubuntu) "sshd never stops, prevents umount of /usr partition" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603363
<zul> unfortunately the wireless here is sucking
<zul> so thats it for me
<smoser> [TOPIC] Rubygems in Ubuntu (SpamapS)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Rubygems in Ubuntu (SpamapS)
<SpamapS> Right
<SpamapS> Its unfortunate that Mathiaz isn't here so he can comment on the past, but I'll share the current
<SpamapS> everybody who uses ruby, uses rubygems.. and it is horribly broken for most people in Debian and ubuntu
<SpamapS> the main gripe is that it stores binaries that would normally be placed in /usr/bin or (by configuration) /usr/local/bin, in /var/lib/rubygems
<SpamapS> s/binaries/executables/
<SpamapS> So at Velocity and DevOps days, after discussing with quite a few ruby developers who love ubuntu but hate ubuntu's rubygems, we need to come up with a strategy to make sure ruby developers can use rubygems the way they expect to.
<SpamapS> mathiaz tried to "fix" this 2 years ago but had his upload reverted.
<smoser> so do we want to add this to next weeks agenda with Mathiaz here and leave this as a teaser ?
<SpamapS> Any thoughts on this issue? I feel strongly that it should place files in /usr/local/bin but the debian developer disagrees and says that FHS requires it go in /var/lib
<zul> i dont think anything should be placed in /usr/local/bin
<zul> sorry laggy
<SpamapS> I'd like to make sure we all come to the sprint educated on the issue so we can leave Prague with an action plan.
<SpamapS> zul: we allow CPAN to do that.
<SpamapS> and every autoconf script out there puts things in /usr/local
<smoser> SpamapS, by default cpan on ubuntu/debian puts things in /usr/local ?
<SpamapS> smoser: as I type this, I'm not 100% sure that it does. I think my memory is based entirely on redhat's CPAN. :-/
<SpamapS> which does /usr/bin
<SpamapS> But it remains an important issue
<smoser> usr/bin just seems dirty.
<jiboumans> cpan on debian didn't used to be well behaved
<jiboumans> let me check
<SpamapS> users want these executables in their path
 * ttx is kinda back
<ttx> at ~40% packet loss
<jiboumans> yeah, i think cpan is still naughty
<SpamapS> it breaks things mightily for the executables to be in /var/lib (which some might argue, can be mounted noexec)
<smoser> so what do we want to do here ?
<jiboumans> $ perl -MConfig -le'print $Config{installbin}'
<jiboumans>  /usr/bin
<SpamapS> jiboumans: doh
<SpamapS> smoser: we want to make sure users can use the software the way they want to.
<jiboumans> spamaps: this is what local::lib and INSTALLDIRS=site is for, but it's not the default
<SpamapS> smoser: without encouraging stupidity. ;)
<SpamapS> right now, *everybody* reinstalls rubygems from source
<smoser> well, i meant regarding this discussion.
<SpamapS> the options we came up with were:
<SpamapS> a) switch to using the embedded rubygems from ruby 1.9
<ttx> SpamapS: if you haven't had this discussion with mathiaz, you should
<ttx> SpamapS: he got burnt in those waters already
<SpamapS> b) attempt to re-do the change mathiaz did, after discussion with motu council
<SpamapS> c) attempt to wrest control of the debian package away from people by calling attention to  the fact that nobody likes the way it works now.
<SpamapS> ttx: mathiaz and I discussed it at length with several ruby users and authors including the Chef guys.
<ttx> SpamapS: ok, I was missing some context, I see
<SpamapS> ttx: Jos also had some other discussions on the same vein.
<zul> `maybe send an email to -devel and -serve to get more feedback
<SpamapS> Either way, it was by far the most common complaint I got about Ubuntu Server at velocity.
<jiboumans> agreed
<jiboumans> it's a recurring theme for me
<jiboumans> i'm open to any route forward, just not one that leaves an essential package in a state that the its users can't actually use
<ttx> SpamapS: it's good for me to see it's no longer about how much our Tomcat sucks
<SpamapS> ttx: :-D
<jiboumans> ttx++ # fixing tomcat ;)
<smoser> mdz blogged on related topic recently: http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/07/06/weve-packaged-all-of-the-free-software-what-now/
<smoser> (not to just name drop, but i think it is generally larger than just ruby, and growing.
<smoser> are we ready to move on ?
<smoser> we're back to zul
<smoser> [TOPIC] Apport hooks call for participation (zulcss)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Apport hooks call for participation (zulcss)
<jiboumans> hang on
<SpamapS> Lets find the biggest ruby community(ies) and ask for their guidance. Maybe a huge community outpouring of need will be enough to enact change.
<jiboumans> what action are we taking SpamapS?
<smoser> sorry.
<SpamapS> ^^
<SpamapS> should I contact jcastro?
<jiboumans> spamaps: adam and james will also be able to point you at relevant communities
<jiboumans> and yes, contact jcastro
<jiboumans> spamaps: is there anything that would be required to be resolved before feature freeze for it to make maverick?
<jiboumans> or is maverick too optimistic?
<SpamapS> jiboumans: not sure.
<SpamapS> if you ask me, the package is 100% broken and this is SRU worthy given users complete abandonment of the package.
<jiboumans> SpamapS: think about the options in that context too.. i'd love to see something workable already in maverick
<smoser> well, nothing is SRU worthy unless fixed in development release.
<jiboumans> SpamapS: can you get the discussion rolling and update us next week in prague?
<jiboumans> we'll then revisit here in the next irc meeting
<SpamapS> Yes I will email -devel and try to get the ruby community's position before next Tuesday.
<smoser> [ACTION] SpamapS to send mail to -devel to get ruby community position on ruby gems in ubuntu
<jiboumans> smoser, action spamaps please?
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SpamapS to send mail to -devel to get ruby community position on ruby gems in ubuntu
<jiboumans> thanks :)
<smoser> now moving on ?
<jiboumans> yes please
<smoser> [TOPIC] Apport hooks call for participation (zulcss)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Apport hooks call for participation (zulcss)
<smoser> zul,
<jiboumans> i'll take that one
<jiboumans> zul's connection is flaky
<jiboumans> so, as i mentioned above, our commitment for Alpha3 is quite high
<jiboumans> and that means we're not likely to get many new apport hooks this cycle
<jiboumans> and that'd be a real shame.
<jiboumans> as this project is shaped very much like papercuts are, Zul wanted to issue a call for participation, both for apport hooks suggestions, but more importantly also for contributions
<jiboumans> I highlighted this in the Alpha3 update here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2010-July/004411.html
<jiboumans> and zul will be sending out something specific to apport hooks in the next day or two
<jiboumans> if you have some spare cycles and have a package you care about with apport hooks, please consider contributing one!
<jiboumans> I hope i represented zul's thoughts well there
<jiboumans> smoser: that's it from me
<smoser> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<smoser> i have one, just a re-announcement:
<smoser> ec2 cluster compute : http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2010/07/the-new-amazon-ec2-instance-type-the-cluster-compute-instance.html .  for $1408/hour you can have a top 500 supercomputer.  Interesting things to note here is that cluster-compute nodes have to be HVM.  Right now, there are no ubuntu HVM nodes, and its very unclear how you would even create one other than running 'ec2-create-snapshot' from inside one.
<ttx> smoser: what's HVM ?
<smoser> (note, the $1408/hour is 880 * $1.6, which places 146 on Top 500)
<ttx> Thanks everyone for assigning yourself to papercuts... don't forget to fix them before the end of the subcycle !
<smoser> HVM is hardware assisted virtualization.  basically kvm but on xen.
<smoser> its using the same infrastructure that windows instances previously used. (at least it seems to be)
<smoser> ok. nothing else, then
<smoser> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<SpamapS> smoser: so is it something that is already on our radar to support, or did this come out of left field?
<smoser> well, most everything comes out of left field for ec2.
<SpamapS> :)
<smoser> our relationship is improving, and i hope that results in better previews of this sort of thing.
<smoser> the hvm is something htat i always expected they'd do.
<smoser> but it is currently only available on the cluster compute isntance types.
<smoser> anyway.
<smoser> The meeting next week will be
<smoser> Tuesday 2010-07-20 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<jiboumans> team, please join me on a phone call
<jiboumans> thanks all!
<ttx> jiboumans: that would be 8pm for most of us, next week
<smoser> yeah,
<smoser> was going to mention that.
<jiboumans> ah, good catch
<jiboumans> usually we skip the irc meeting during a sprint week
<jiboumans> and i think it's advisable to do so this sprint too
<ttx> yes
<smoser> unless someone objects, then we'll resume our regularly scheduled program on
<smoser> Tuesday 2010-07-27 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<jiboumans> smoser++ # thanks for chairing
<smoser> thank you, and good night.
<smoser> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:13.
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:57. The chair is czajkowski.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:57.
<jpds> That was quick.
<czajkowski> sorrya bout that was the only way I could remember to get the link to the meeting log :)
<DiegoTc> xd
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-14
<Silver_Fox_> 23:00 UTC
<duanedesign> woot
<DiegoTc> lets begin
<Silver_Fox_> Who is chairing the beginners team meeting today ?
<Silver_Fox_> Ping cprofitt , nhandler
<smeag0l> i was just about drop out
<smeag0l> *to
<DiegoTc> pautag is not coming today
<Silver_Fox_> No worries smeag0l .  Good to see you about
<smeag0l> :)
<duanedesign> ok and nhandler will be late
<Silver_Fox_> I do not mind chairing it if nobody objects
<wojox> no objections here
<duanedesign> yep, i dont know
<DiegoTc> np
<duanedesign> the bot commands
 * zkriesse chairs...hehehe
<Silver_Fox_> Hmm,  I had them written down ;)
<zkriesse> startmeeting with []
<duanedesign> thats ok Silver_Fox_  dont worry :)
<Silver_Fox_> I have them now duanedesign
<Silver_Fox_> Just out of interest,  how many are here for the meeting?
<Silver_Fox_> o/
 * zkriesse is here
<pedro3005> o/
<phillw> listening
 * kvarley is here
<duanedesign> o/
<DiegoTc> here
 * kermiac waves
<wojox> here
 * smeag0l is here 
<Silver_Fox_> Okay,  a fair few ;)
<Silver_Fox_> #startmeeting
<zkriesse> At least we got enough BT members to vote
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:05. The chair is Silver_Fox_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<duanedesign> \0/
<smeag0l> confused
<smeag0l> :)
<Silver_Fox_> [TOPIC] Beginners Team Meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beginners Team Meeting
<Silver_Fox_> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<smeag0l> if i may i maybe have a security issue ?
<Silver_Fox_> [IDEA] DevFG A new look to the Dev Focus Group
<MootBot> IDEA received:  DevFG A new look to the Dev Focus Group
<Silver_Fox_> DiegoTc,  Its you :)
<DiegoTc> yeap
<DiegoTc> I was talking with duanedesign about creating a programming academy for the devFG https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DiegoTurcios/DevFG
<wojox> That sounds like fun
<zkriesse> Guys sorry I didn't add it to the agenda (just got it figured out here today) but I'll have a topic after everyone else is done if that's ok
<zkriesse> DiegoTc: Ok, to what goal?
<DiegoTc> zkriesse: I wrote them on the wiki
<DiegoTc> # Help new users to learn a new programming language # When there is a group with a better knowledge, the dev focus group can work on developing application (Small or Big Projects) that can benefit Ubuntu
<DiegoTc> Others (Still Thinking)
<pedro3005> zkriesse, what nobler goal if not the publicizing and distribution of knowledge? :)
<nhandler> o/
<zkriesse> very good response pedro3005
<Silver_Fox_> nhandler,  Go
<Silver_Fox_> :)
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_: I just got here, nothing to say right now (still reading scrollback)
<DiegoTc> So thats the idea for the dev FG
<Silver_Fox_> Ah righto :)  Well we decided to crack on nhandler
<duanedesign> o/
<Silver_Fox_> Go duanedesign
<duanedesign> the council has been discussing lately the 'mission' of each FG and the setting of goals by each group/
<duanedesign> I like diegos idea
<zkriesse> Ok
<duanedesign> i think the teaching of classes is something we could couple with the eduFG
<duanedesign> if we could have classses in #ubuntu-classroom
<cprofitt> duanedesign: the edu had worked with classroom -- but the focus was on off-line self-paced courses
<cprofitt> we had a Moodle server that leveraged wiki docs and forum posts
<duanedesign> i think in addition to what DiegoTc said the DevFG should start working towards getting its members to be MOTU's
 * DiegoTc there is expectation on the channel :p
<Silver_Fox_> Okay,  so do we have an item to vote on or not? :)
<Silver_Fox_> Was it an announcement DiegoTc ?  Or are you seeking support for it ?
<DiegoTc> option b
<nhandler> Nothing really to vote on. It is really up to the FG lead
<DiegoTc> nhandler: I never get collinp on irc :S
<Silver_Fox_> Yes,  I thought it would have been in the FG meeting, not the team meeting
<Silver_Fox_> Okay,  moving on...
<nhandler> DiegoTc: You can use email / MemoServ ;)
<Silver_Fox_> Unless anyone has anything to add
<collinp> Wow. Forgot meeting was going on.
<duanedesign> ha
<DiegoTc> thanks I always wonder how i do that
<duanedesign> :)
<zkriesse> For shame collinp!
<DiegoTc> Guys I am leving I had clases righ now :S
<Silver_Fox_> [IDEA] Review List Of Prospective Members In Need Of Mentor.
<zkriesse> bye DiegoTc
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Review List Of Prospective Members In Need Of Mentor.
<collinp> And I'm handling an issue somewhere else.
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_: Why are you using IDEAS instead of TOPICS ?
<zkriesse> I'm willing to take on nUboon2Age and or MichealH
<Silver_Fox_> Gah,  you are quite correct nhandler ,  lol
<Silver_Fox_> We have 5 on the list
<Silver_Fox_> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure#Mentoring
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure#Mentoring
<duanedesign> km0r3
<km0r3> hey all
<duanedesign> needs a dev related mentor
<km0r3> yes, that would be great.
<duanedesign> he has already shown good commitment to the group
<duanedesign> (s)he, I souldnt assume
<duanedesign> :)
<duanedesign> nUboon2Age is the only other one on the list i have seen around
<duanedesign> anyone know anything about the other 3
<wojox> What happened to lequont and why is my name gone?
 * zkriesse knows of MichealH
<Silver_Fox_> Very little duanedesign
<duanedesign> oh and wojox
<duanedesign> i noticed leoquant was gone today, that was wojoxs mentor
<duanedesign> wojox is a good fprum contributor so any forum minded mentor woould be good. is that fair wojox?
<duanedesign> forum*
<wojox> Sounds good
<smeag0l> afk
<duanedesign> Also if anyone is on the list of mentors please check and make sure your info is current
<Silver_Fox_> Okay, only km0r3 seems to be on the list who is here
<zkriesse> Yes
<zkriesse> MichealH is in the UK so it's after midnight for him
<Silver_Fox_> So..  can somebody take km0r3 ?  A volunteer would be nice :)
<Silver_Fox_> It is after midnight in the UK zkriesse .
<duanedesign> i can 0\
<zkriesse> I've offered to take km0r3 on even though I don't code (yet)
<Silver_Fox_> km0r3,  Who would you prefer? duanedesign or zkriesse  )or neither ;)
 * nhandler has a mentee
<nhandler> Or send another email to the ML
<km0r3> I think duanedesign would be great. I feel honored!
<Silver_Fox_> Okay great :)
 * phillw waves to nhandler
<km0r3> zkriesse: I already thanked you for you kindness
<km0r3> >/(
<km0r3> :-) I mean
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED] duanedesign  to mentor km0r3
<MootBot> AGREED received:  duanedesign  to mentor km0r3
<Silver_Fox_> [TOPIC] Request Status Update From All Mentors
<MootBot> New Topic:  Request Status Update From All Mentors
 * zkriesse will update the mentor list if no one has any objections
<duanedesign> o/
<smeag0l> b
<Silver_Fox_> I shall start,  mine is still in contact with me.  He is in the middle of some real life issues at the minute.  Looking to step it up once they are sorted.
<Silver_Fox_> go duanedesign
<duanedesign> good you could make it to meeting smeag0l
<duanedesign> malev is doing great
<smeag0l> thank you duanedesign :)
<duanedesign> he has been coding on a lot of projects
<Silver_Fox_> Oh hey smeag0l ,  thought you had gone to bed :)
<duanedesign> nd helping out in -dev
<smeag0l> no
<smeag0l> ;)
<duanedesign> shredder12 is also doing well.
<nhandler> My mentee is doing well also. He is doing a great job both in the BT as well as with getting involved in the greater community.
<duanedesign> and kermiac hopefully wont be my mentee for much longer, not htat i have not enjoyed it
<duanedesign> nhandler: i agree his participation in #ubuntu-beginners is great
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<zkriesse> I've nominated mohi for membership although he's not here for some reason
<zkriesse> phillw: has done great
<zkriesse> Especially with wiki, he's been making excellent progress with that
 * nhandler -> dinner
<Silver_Fox_> Nobody else has an update ?
<Silver_Fox_> Guess not. :)
<Silver_Fox_> Okay  moving on...
<Silver_Fox_> [TOPIC] kermiac to join the team
<MootBot> New Topic:  kermiac to join the team
<Silver_Fox_> Please introduce yourself kermiac
<Silver_Fox_> Or let duanedesign do it ;)
<duanedesign> kermiac: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MitchTowner
 * Vantrax is having RMB flashbacks
<zkriesse> same here vanhoof
<zkriesse> I mean Vantrax
<km0r3> \o
<duanedesign> kermiac has been with us for almost 3 months now
 * zkriesse hates tabfail
<duanedesign> he is a bug triaging machine :)
<zkriesse> Just so ya'll know, kermiac has been making excellent progress in -wiki as well when he can
<duanedesign> nis 5 a day stats are impressive
<duanedesign> his*
<Silver_Fox_> I had a look at those duanedesign ,  very impressive
<duanedesign> and he has also done apport hooks, wiki work, etc
<duanedesign> i think he will be a great addition to the team. He is highly motivated, friendly , and ready to help when he can
<duanedesign> all the things that make a grat BT member
<duanedesign> great*
<zkriesse> +1 duanedesign
<Silver_Fox_> Great.
<kermiac> hi, sorry. I was called away from my desk. Thanks duanedesign
<Silver_Fox_> Lets vote
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE] kermiac to join the team
<MootBot> Please vote on:  kermiac to join the team.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<zkriesse> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from zkriesse. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Silver_Fox_> Nobody else? :)
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Silver_Fox_> ping cprofitt
<Silver_Fox_> Thanks pleia2
<cprofitt> Silver_Fox_: ?
<cprofitt> 0
<zkriesse> cprofitt: cast your vote
<cprofitt> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Silver_Fox_> Okay,  I think thats everyone who is here
<cprofitt> sorry -- other meeting got a bit 'hot'
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<zkriesse> Congrats kermiac!!!!
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED] kermiac to join the team.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  kermiac to join the team.
<smeag0l> congratulation kermiac
<cprofitt> congrats!
<kermiac> Thanks :)
<Silver_Fox_> Well done
<km0r3> Congrats kermiac :-)
<duanedesign> who can do the ceremonial kick from the channel :)
<zkriesse> I will!
<Silver_Fox_> I do not believe you can zkriesse ,  no ops
<duanedesign> i think mohi can be voted in absentia?
<Silver_Fox_> duanedesign,  I don't think I can voice anyone in the team channels.
<zkriesse> Silver_Fox_: I was joking...i've already got him voiced in -wiki
<duanedesign> well do it later then :)
<Silver_Fox_> duanedesign,  A break in tradition?
<smeag0l> ;)
<smeag0l> hehe
<collinp> I can give voice, but I can't set autovoice.
<collinp> I'll just do it and leave a note for bodhi to set auto-voice.
<duanedesign> thanks collinp
<Silver_Fox_> Okay,  I am going to put me head on the block so to speak.. going to proxy mohi
<Vantrax> how is that putting your head on the block...
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE]  mohi1 to join the team
<MootBot> Please vote on:   mohi1 to join the team.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<zkriesse> he's my paddy
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<zkriesse> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from zkriesse. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<collinp> +1
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from collinp. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pedro3005> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pedro3005. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Silver_Fox_> Vantrax,  Normally they have to be around.  I think he had been on the list for maybe 6 months
<duanedesign> +1
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
<zkriesse> cool
<collinp> I'll notify bodhi that mohi1 needs +VA as well.
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED]  mohi1 to join the team.
<MootBot> AGREED received:   mohi1 to join the team.
<Vantrax> i think we said they didnt have to be, I know I had 2 paddys added while they were absent
<duanedesign> ahhh
<duanedesign> thanks Vantrax
<zkriesse> Silver_Fox_: I had a topic if i may?
<Silver_Fox_> Well I had a view to resting (coming up to 1AM)
<Silver_Fox_> But sure
<Silver_Fox_> Go zkriesse
<zkriesse> Ok, some of you know I've recently starting leading the Ubuntu Youth group
<zkriesse> Just wanted to know if any of you would like to help get this group going and alive again
<zkriesse> Especially you younger folks
<duanedesign> oh to be young again :)
<pleia2> hehe
<zkriesse> If any of you wish to help the channel is #ubuntu-youth on freenode and the wiki is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuYouth
<zkriesse> That's all Silver_Fox_
<Vantrax> I would encourage people to be involved
<pleia2> hooray Ubuntu Youth!
<zkriesse> haha pleia2
<Silver_Fox_> Can we be young at heart?
<Silver_Fox_> :)
<smeag0l> :)
<duanedesign> and on a final note the council will be sending out an email covering the plans to encourage more activity in the team
<zkriesse> Yes Silver_Fox_ you may
<Silver_Fox_> When can we expect such an email duanedesign ? I shall make a point to open it
<duanedesign> we have sent out emails to the broader community
<pleia2> instead of just trashing it like other duanedesign emails :O
<duanedesign> we are awaiting some feedbac
<duanedesign> lol
<duanedesign> so this week, early next week at latest
<Silver_Fox_> I look forward to reading it duanedesign
<zkriesse> +1 Silver_Fox_
<duanedesign> i think everyone will like it. We want to really unlock the teams potentil
<smeag0l> sorry zkriesse i will have to get my life straightent out first :/
<duanedesign> everyone is so talented here on the team
<duanedesign> thanks Silver_Fox_ for chairing the meeting
<zkriesse> Oh and just so ya'll know there will be a Ubuntu Youth meeting in #ubuntu-youth on Friday at 20:00 UTC and a -wiki meeting in #ubuntu-beginners-wiki on saturday at 21:00 UTC
<pleia2> thanks Silver_Fox_!
<zkriesse> good job Silver_Fox_
<Silver_Fox_> Okay,   thinking about calling it in.  Very early here,  hope the meeting went smooth enough. Wasn't planning to chair so sorry if out of the norm.
<Silver_Fox_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:54.
<zkriesse> very nice
<Silver_Fox_> Oh,  I still don't like mootbot ;)
 * phillw makes the horlicks for us 'oldies' in the UK ;-)
<zkriesse> AlanBell is making a new Mootbot-UK
<zkriesse> it's called meetingology now
<zkriesse> I've got it in -wiki and #ubuntu-youth
<Silver_Fox_> zkriesse,  A job for you i have..,,
<zkriesse> Silver_Fox_: oh?
<Silver_Fox_> zkriesse,  http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/ <- Meeting logs. Please if you could sort would be grand
<zkriesse> Oh dear
<zkriesse> OK sure I'll grab that
<zkriesse> Only if you gimme a donut
<Silver_Fox_> What sort? The kind with a hole in the middle or the one with a jam centre ?
<zkriesse> there's no log of our meeting
<smeag0l> this edubuntu takes forever to boot gonna try and se if i can get ubuntu to run on this troublesome Nvidia 6200 or 6600
<smeag0l> cyal
<Silver_Fox_> BYe smeag0l
<smeag0l> thank you Silver_Fox_
<mvo> hey
<barry> mvo: hi!
<robbiew> \o
<robbiew> whose running the meeting today?
<cjwatson> hi.  bagsy not me, I think I did it last week
 * barry doesn't remember the shuffle order from last week
<ev> hello
<psurbhi> o/
<robbiew> :/
<robbiew> hmmm
 * robbiew will run then
<robbiew> okay
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:05. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> let's make it legit :)
<robbiew> doko: Keybuk: around?
<doko_> hi
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
 * robbiew skips Keybuk
<robbiew> barry?
<barry> f-m-python-versions: much work on py27 stack; having fun with ppa limitations and api. f-m-robust-python-packaging: versioned .so files patch, email discussions, python bug 9193 with patch; todo finish pep 3149. misc: bug 602132 (valgrind ftbfs on mav); awaiting review (cjwatson ping :) and upload; reviewed lean research paper; built out mav mbp laptop for rally; debian python modules submitted for ITP: flufl.enum and flufl.i18n. done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 9193 in librsvg2 (Ubuntu) "gnome-icon-theme-gartoon: gartoon makes nautilus crash as soon as PS files are in a folder" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/9193
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602132 in valgrind (Ubuntu Maverick) "valgrind fails to build from source in maverick (glibc 2.12)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602132
<barry> cjwatson: i'm not sure you're the right person to review bug 602132, but i assigned it to you (i cannot upload)
<cjwatson> I was sort of hoping that doko might review the valgrind patch; I can do it if necessary but I don't know it hugely well
<cjwatson> doko, could you?
<Keybuk> robbiew: am round, you were just on the phone with me! :p
<doko> cjwatson: ok
<Keybuk> though I did just have to get back to the PC after nature break
<cjwatson> doko: thanks much
<robbiew> Keybuk: heh
 * cjwatson screws Keybuk's outbound filter back in
<cjwatson> (oo-er)
<barry> doko: thanks
<robbiew> lol
<ev> lol
<barry> :-D
<robbiew> Keybuk: anything for the lightning round?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: that *was* filtered
<Keybuk> done: ureadahead continuous reprofiling, some work on defrag and block readahead, restored backup after getting it horribly wrong y'day
<Keybuk> todo: use a different machine for testing, more work on defrag + block
<Keybuk> ~
<cjwatson> should've known
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> cjwatson: paste away!
<cjwatson> gosh, how did you get readahead wrong enough to need restore from backup? :)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: turns out btrfs assumes you know what you're doing when you say where you want to move a block to
<Keybuk> I didn't know what I was doing
<cjwatson> done: bits of 10.04.1 prep; several build fixes and merges; landed some significant pieces of foundations-m-grub2-boot-framebuffer, now mostly awaiting kernel support; sent off linearfb patch for review; upgraded to current syslinux/gfxboot (involving staring at crash dumps lots)
<cjwatson> todo: sort out logo handling for foundations-m-grub2-boot-framebuffer; sprint prep; reviews for Surbhi
<Keybuk> I mistook page offsets for byte offsets
<cjwatson> --
<robbiew> cjwatson: thnx
<robbiew> doko's next
<doko> openjdk-6 backport still continuing, armel test rebuild, openjdk-7 updates, build gcc-4.4 from linaro release, investigate and fix openjdk-6 crashes on armel/maverick, helping hand with python2.7 test rebuild, various linaro calls
<doko> done
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> ev?
<ev> Mostly finished the automatic partition page this week - there are slight UI bugs but the functionality is solid.
<ev> Working on the timezone page.  Moved the menus into a single menu off a new MenuButton widget (http://tinyurl.com/2wg5ucy http://tinyurl.com/32gqusp), but we decided that three ways to do the same thing was wrong and removed the menus altogether.
<ev> Currently writing client code to talk to the geonames service, packaging python-sphinxsearch for IS so we can deploy the service.
<ev> Mail exchange with Amanda over the "use non free software" checkbox.  I hope to get the timezone page and Jockey/ubuntu-?-extras work done before the sprint, so I can focus that time on parallel debconf work.  And dear lord is it ever raining in London.
<ev> done
<robbiew> lol...rain?...what's that
<ev> hahaha
<robbiew> thnx ev
<robbiew> mvo, you're next sir
<mvo> aptdaemon: work on tests, python-apt py3 fixes; software-center: merged/worked on appdetails-gtk branch, improved appdetails, work on buy-something; update-manager: work on python-apt 0.8 api port, performance work, various bugfixes
<mvo> (done)
<barry> ev: same here in dc!  that must be one big storm
<robbiew> mvo: thnx
<robbiew> psurbhi: ?
<psurbhi> 1) worked on mdadm merge delta
<psurbhi> 2) worked on merging upstream btrfs patch in gparted
<psurbhi> 3) worked on resolving compiler error in building iptables
<psurbhi> 4) worked on resolving compiler error in building redhat-cluster
<psurbhi> 5) started writing a design and implementation doc for btrfs.
<psurbhi> i am right now resolving the gplv2 vs v3 with cmason and peter Anvin on #btrfs
<robbiew> sounds like fun :/
<robbiew> heh
<psurbhi> i had a question for grub2 btrfs code:
<psurbhi> could it be dual licensed? gpl v2/3 ?
<psurbhi> so that syslinux could use support from it
<barry> psurbhi: who owns the copyright on it?
<cjwatson> we can dual-license code if it's ours
<psurbhi> yes, our code
<psurbhi> :-) great, thanks
<barry> psurbhi: you may have to make two source distributions though.  i'm sure amanda can give you all the legal advice you'll need to make that happen :)
<Keybuk> psurbhi: look on the bright side, all this licence debate makes it really obvious that we're trying to contribute to btrfs development :p
<psurbhi> :P
<psurbhi> true
<robbiew> nothing on the alpha3 bug list...skipping tha
<robbiew> that
<robbiew> nothing new that is
<cjwatson> in general for code we write that's attached to an existing project, we use the prevailing licence; for a situation like this where multiple projects are involved, it makes sense to use the union, otherwise we're only really inconveniencing ourselves
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Any Business from Activity Reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Business from Activity Reports
<robbiew> silence = moving on!
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
<cjwatson> new syslinux!  dear god that was hard work, and will get various folks off my back.
<cjwatson> also potentially lets us use hybrid CDs that are bootable as USB without conversion, although that's some more work
<ev> I have business
<robbiew> cjwatson: \o/
<barry> robbiew: i have a proposal for a cross-team session.  should i add it to the page or run it by you first?
<robbiew> ev: oops..proceed
<doko> the openjdk-6 backports don't show regressions (tested by sbeattie), and fix several plugin issues
<robbiew> barry: just add it
<robbiew> ;)
<mvo> I finally traced down a "synaptic/update-manager eats all my cpu bug"
<ev> we're going to have a new ubuntu-?-extras package to be installed by ubiquity
<cjwatson> (doesn't obsolete usb-creator; it'd still be needed for persistent storage, and as a tool to actually write stuff to the stick
<Keybuk> I have news; after some fighting, and a little bloodshed, the track leads for the Boot & Init Track of Linux Plumbers' this year have been announced
<ev> it will basically be ubuntu-restricted-extras, but without the metaverse stuff and the fluendo mp3 codec
<Keybuk> and it's going to be Kay & myself :-)
<ev> what should we call it?
<ev> Keybuk: congrats!
<robbiew> Keybuk: *\o/*
<ev> cjwatson, mvo: awesome!
<cjwatson> I'd like to call it ubuntu-restricted-extras, but unfortunately that's going to be kind of weird on upgrades
<mvo> Keybuk: congrats!
<cjwatson> would ubuntu-restricted-desktop make sense?
<robbiew> ev: ubuntu-awesome-extras? (j/k)
<ev> doesn't that imply that ubuntu-restricted-extras isn't for the desktop?
<mvo> ubuntu-media-extras?
<cjwatson> maybe ...
<james_w> ubuntu-restricted-extra-but-not-too-extras
<ev> lol
<robbiew> heh
<Keybuk> ubuntu-restricted-additionals
<mvo> I like that one!
<mvo> -addons
<ev> either of those two work for me
<barry> maverick works great on an mbp1,1, except for the trackpad handling which induces sharp persistent pains in my forehead
<ev> right, that's it from me for now :)  Thanks!
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<robbiew> ev: can you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/oem-priority/+bug/604765
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 604765 in OEM Priority Project "[Maverick] 32bit Ubuntu installer not calculating swap correctly for PAE systems" [High,Confirmed]
<ev> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/7716 - *cough* be a buddy, hit the commit button on that website
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/7716 - *cough* be a buddy, hit the commit button on that website
<ev> robbiew: sure
<robbiew> omg
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> ev: thnx
 * ev glares at robbiew for not signing up yet
 * ev glares harder
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Next chair
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next chair
<ev> hahaha, whatever
<robbiew> thanks for volunteering ev
<ev> lol
<mvo> :)
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> should we have it next week?
<robbiew> or just update the wiki with activity reports
<cjwatson> it's all one big meeting
<barry> cjwatson: yeah, but except for me, how often do we have them in bars? <wink>
<Keybuk> if there's a hot tub, we could have the meeting in there
<ev> why stop at the meeting
<cjwatson> when the times were different, it was not unheard of for me to do the meeting from a pub lunch :-)
 * barry rolls up his 30m cat5e cable
<ev> lol
<barry> cjwatson: nice!
<ev> it's going to be above 30 degrees in poor-unit temperature all week
<ev> I'm working from the pool
<Keybuk> cjwatson: secrets of management?
<robbiew> ok...so we'll probably cancel it
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> btw, ev...I DID commit
<ev> oh, well, whatever
<ev> I didn't see a twitter post about it
<robbiew> lol
<ev> ;)
<robbiew> I think I did identi.ca
<Keybuk> robbiew: you just wanted nobody to read it, didn't you
<ev> lol
<robbiew> well...
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:28.
<robbiew> lol
<ev> hahaha
<psurbhi> robbiew, thanks :)
<ev> thanks!
<robbiew> thnx all
<barry> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<highvoltage> bonjour
<mhall119> thought it was in another hour
<highvoltage> you should add UTC time to your gnome time applet :)
<mhall119> it is, I just thought it was 20:00
<highvoltage> I double-checked the wiki and it says 19:00 :)
<highvoltage> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:01. The chair is highvoltage.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<highvoltage> let's try mootbot for a change!
<mhall119> woohoo
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] Qimo session
<MootBot> New Topic:  Qimo session
<mhall119> heh, that got on the list fast
<highvoltage> mhall119: since we discussed it just now in #edubuntu, do you think you'll have time to work on that gnome session over the next 2 weeks or so?
<highvoltage> s/gnome/qimo
<mhall119> I'll have time to look into it, but no guarantees there'll be work done
<highvoltage> beta is on 2 September, which still leaves some time though
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> ok, I'll just possibly apply a *tiny* amount of pressure since it affects our installer :)
<mhall119> if I can't make a Gnome-based session, would you consider one that uses lxpanel or some other light-weight panel?
 * Lns waves to all
<mhall119> it looks like I'll have to keep totally separate gconf databases for Qimo to have it's own gnome panel configs
<highvoltage> it doesn't sound like a bad idea, but we're trying to keep the dvd image small. lxde isn't that big afaik, it's notimpossible but possibly a stretch
<mhall119> ok, I'll see what'll be possible using gnome
<highvoltage> mhall119: I'm sure it's possible to find another way, I'll try to look at it this weekend (I'm moving tomorrow so that might get slightly in the way)
<mhall119> ok, I have to plan for my UDW session Friday, so it'll be this weekend at the earliest
<highvoltage> ok great
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Website
<MootBot> New Topic:  Edubuntu Website
<highvoltage> last week I reverted the Edubuntu website to the default drupal theme
<highvoltage> I just changed the colours so that it it's more edubuntuy: http://edubuntu.org/
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> I also bought a theme from a site that makes and sells drupal themes
 * highvoltage tries to find a link quickly
<mhall119> MTecknology was working on a Drupal port of the new website theme
<highvoltage> mhall119: is that Susan?
<mhall119> not sure about real-life names
 * alkisg likes the new site very much
<mhall119> there's also a Wordpress theme available
<highvoltage> mhall119: ah, stgraber just told me that it isn't. I'm not familiar with that, do you have details?
<mhall119> on the new theme?
 * Lns likes the new site too!
<highvoltage> mhall119: yep
<mhall119> highvoltage: looks like loco.ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> Lns, alkisg: heh, it's just the default drupal theme :)
<mhall119> or www.ubuntu.com
<Lns> it's clean though
<highvoltage> the theme I bought is called mynxx, although the preview on http://www.rockettheme.com/drupal-themes/mynxx doesn't show it with the settings I'd want to use by default
<alkisg> Really? I haven't seen the default drupal theme for a long time, this is looking elegant, and it's also liquid... nice
<highvoltage> you'd have to go to Features -> Preset Styles and then the 4th and 5th styles look like they could be configured to be edubuntuy quite easily
<highvoltage> it has the canonical-style dots (well, maybe with a bit of imagination) and seems to have some accessibility at least. I'll ask for feedback via the list while I update it
<highvoltage> if someone doesn't like it they're welcome to send   feedback, but we've had an old website so long that I'm just going to run with it
<highvoltage> hope that's ok :)
<alkisg> highvoltage++ :)
<highvoltage> I guess we should spend some time talking about the website outside of the meeting. I'll give everyone regular pokes in the channel :)
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] Installer features
<MootBot> New Topic:  Installer features
<highvoltage> I looked last week at the ubiquity plugins, I don't understand them completely yet but they don't seem all that complicated at least
<highvoltage> I started working on the UI pages for the installer too, here's a first draft screenshot for the desktop environment chooser:
<highvoltage> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/maverick/ubiquity-plugins/screenshots/desktop-env.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/maverick/ubiquity-plugins/screenshots/desktop-env.png
<highvoltage> (I meant to cut that window out but gimp is a bit buggy with globalmenu it seems)
<highvoltage> LTSP will also have a ubiquity screen, although that installation slide is still much rougher at this stage: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/maverick/ubiquity-plugins/screenshots/Capture.png
<highvoltage> that's pretty much all I have to report on installer changes for the week
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Developer Week
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Developer Week
<highvoltage> We have a session scheduled for Ubuntu Developer Week this week: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek
<highvoltage> it's on Friday at at 19:00 UTC (same time that this meeting is happening just on Friday)
<mhall119> will the desktop chooser determine what is installed, or just what is default?
<highvoltage> mhall119: probably both
<mhall119> ok
 * bencrisford wanders in (sorry im late)
<mhall119> side-question, is it possible to add a screen to create extra users with these plugins?
<highvoltage> mhall119: the default session will be installed, and then whatever is chosen will be installed additionally and also made default (I guess :))
<alkisg> mhall119: that would be nice to have after the installation as well, so maybe it shouldn't be an ubiquity plugin but a standalone program.
<highvoltage> bencrisford, stgraber, mhall119, alkisg: would be nice if you can be there as well to help out with answers (or even questions as mhall119 did so well last time ;))
<highvoltage> mhall119: seems like you can do pretty much anything with the ubiquity plugins system
<highvoltage> mhall119: if you can put it in glade and script it in python, then it's doable
<mhall119> highvoltage: I'm teaching from 16:00 to 18:00
<mhall119> so I should be there
<highvoltage> mhall119: cool
 * alkisg will also post it in his forums/mailinst lists for teachers here to see
<highvoltage> great
<mhall119> alkisg: maybe include a link to a webchat for #ubuntu-classroom
<alkisg> yup, http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-classroom%2Cubuntu-classroom-chat
<highvoltage> well that's pretty much all from my side, any other topics for today?
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] Next Meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting
<alkisg> That was a lot of news/work! Thanks!
<highvoltage> Next Edubuntu meeting is next week Wednesday 21 July, also 19:00 UTC
<mhall119> I'll be out
<highvoltage> thanks for attending the weekly Edubuntu meeting and have a good week!
<mhall119> so I'll try and get you an update to the qimo-gnome question before then
<bencrisford> :)
<highvoltage> mhall119: that would be really nice
<highvoltage> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:29.
<mhall119> gong?
<highvoltage> *GONG*
<bencrisford> :D
<mhall119> :)
<highvoltage> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:32. The chair is highvoltage.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<MTecknology> mhall119: ya, I have lajjr working on importing the variations into what we already had from the light-base-theme. I think he's pretty far along.
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] testmeeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  testmeeting
<highvoltage> [VOTE] test
<MootBot> Please vote on:  test.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from highvoltage. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<highvoltage> +1
<highvoltage> +1
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 1 against. 0 abstained. Total: -1
<highvoltage> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:33.
<MTecknology> highvoltage: "< highvoltage> mhall119: is that Susan?" <- no, my name is Michael ;)
<mhall119> good name
<MTecknology>  mhall119 btw - you can see my name in /whois :)
<mhall119> I could if I wasn't lazy
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-15
<huats> morning
<vish> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 15 2010, 10:46:01
<nigelb> vish: date -u :)
<aday> vish: have we got a ux meeting today?
<vish> aday: oh there must be one , mpt is back
<vish> aday: seen http://pendulumtech.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/ubuntu-accessibility-team-personas-survey/  ?
<aday> vish: that's what i thought. it's supposed to be nowish, isn't it?
<vish> yeah , should be now
<aday> vish: hadn't seen that. good stuff. i'm wanting to do some research for the gnome personas but haven't had time
<vish> aday: mpt is probably buried deep in backlog mails :p
<mpt> hello hello
<thorwil> hi vish, aday, mpt
<mpt> Hi thorwil
<vish> ~o~
<aday> mpt: welcome back :)
<mpt> thanks
<aday> thorwil: hey
<thorwil> mpt: hope you had a good time! not that now a bad time would follow :)
<mpt> Yes, I had a relaxing holiday
<mpt> So, this morning I was reminded about the bus factor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor
<mpt> This team currently has a low bus factor
<aday> mpt: not just this team...
<thorwil> mpt: nah, there would have to be something that can be send into disarray, first ;)
<aday> mpt: FOSS ux in general
<vish> yay!
<vish> ;p
<vish> and the conclusion ? we need to give mpt top notch security?
<mpt> No, we just need more active people
<aday> ha ha
<aday> so where are we at? what's happening?
<vish> mpt: you wouldnt have missed this but just a reminder of Pendulum's persona work : http://pendulumtech.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/ubuntu-accessibility-team-personas-survey/
<thorwil> i really like the idea of building a central resource, one shape of that being godby's book idea
<aday> a community ux resource would be great
<mpt> vish, that's pretty neat
<vish> yeah , nice work!
<thorwil> also there got to be a way to do a software guided design process
<mpt> We've been talking about personas for Ubuntu since April last year <http://www.flickr.com/photos/38687067@N05/3568007297/in/set-72157618841687398/>, but have never had time to get it going.
<vish> we need to get personas sorted out, this should be our critical priority ,IMO!
<aday> mpt: have you seen the ones that hylke and garrett have been working on?
<thorwil> in how far should personas for ubuntu deviate from ones for gnome?
<vish> mpt: fax me those sticky notes! and we can start on something ;)
<aday> thorwil: why would they deviate?
<thorwil> aday: zero is a possible answer ;)
<mpt> aday, no
<thorwil> aday: can those be found outside the google wave?
<aday> i'm planning to do some interviews to juice up the personas when i get time. it'll be nice to have a bit of 'real world' stuff in there
<aday> thorwil: not so far... the plan is to get them approved by the gnome board or somethin
<mpt> vish, ivanka just found them all at the bottom of a drawer and handed them to me
<thorwil> mpt: paste from the wave: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/237907/
<vish> sweet!
<mpt> aday, nice work
<aday> all i need to do is find a 63 old plumber called joe ;)
<mpt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber
<aday> think he'd do an interview?
<mpt> He's done many interviews.
<vish> not him again!
<mpt> haha
<thorwil> mpt: i've been told that there is no grand?a deliberately, as age related issues are included with Joe. there's no software developer to avoid skewing it all, but the Web Developer is supposed to bring in the technical side
<mpt> thorwil, be careful, because if you end up not designing for software developers *at all*, you end up with a dead platform
<thorwil> mpt: heh, i just passed on the arguments, they are not mine :)
<thorwil> as i did propose inclusion of a software developer
<thorwil> so that would be one possible area where ubuntu personas could differ from the gnome ones
<aday> mpt: i think the argument is that we will design for devs whatever happens, and that the personas are designed to highlight those kinds of people that tend to get ignored
<mpt> ok
<aday> it's not meant to be representative of who we design for in that sense - it's more pragmatic
<vish> aday: but once we get such developer excluded personas , the first question would be .. what about developers?!
<aday> thorwil: if it's really important to have a dev in there, make the case to have that persona in the gnome set
<vish> why arent they in the equation..
<aday> vish: i agree. i suspect that we will end up having that persona in there, though hylke and garrett are keen to avoid that
<vish> aday: yeah , i noticed that.. i just haent gotten around to reading that wave fully and comment :)
<thorwil> aday: i'm not going to repeat myself there. the last thing i want is spend energy on convincing designers and ux people, when there there is so much ignrnace of the basics out there :)
<aday> thorwil: i understand, i just don't think forking is the solution
<thorwil> aday: in that case a representative from canonical should have more weight
<aday> thorwil: everybody is welcome to contribute :)
<mpt> Use of Ubuntu is a bit broader than use of Gnome. We need to care about things like "will Ubuntu work on my computer", "how do I watch a DVD", "I want to keep the software on 300 computers up-to-date", etc, which are outside of what Gnome covers.
<thorwil> system administrator. loco team leader? turning doctormo into a persona would be fun :)
<vish> thorwil: yeah , we already turned him in a cartoon , lets make him a persona! :D
<vish> s/in/into
<vish> bah!  rather a cartoon for him...
 * vish gets back to wave
<aday> maybe it would be possible for canonical to extend or supplement the gnome personas?
<aday> i need to eat! see you all next week...
<thorwil> sure. there could be a larger set of them, even, and projects like specific applications could go like: "i chose you, Joe Plumber!" ...
<mpt> aday, ivanka says she'll be happy to discuss this with you at Guadec, Monday to Wednesday.
<mpt> d'oh
<thorwil> aday: bon apetite, cya
<thorwil> i declare this meeting to be closed, just because i like the sound of these words!
<vish> thorwil: gonna grab a bite?
<thorwil> vish: soon, but see, i wasn't first! ;)
<vish> mpt: what happened to the noisy fella , named Benjamin!
<vish> just inquiring another kiwi ;p
<thorwil> vish: did he ever make it to one these meetings?
<mpt> He was at the first one
<vish> he came once
<mpt> But I think he's trying to not fail classes now
<vish> good goal!
<thorwil> yeah, i already wondered how he manages all his activities
<vish> alrighty , we can end meeting?
<vish> ... and let thorwil grab something :d
<mpt> sure
<mpt> I will try to be more organized next week
<mpt> Sorry for dropping the ball
<wers> mpt, oops. sorry didnt make it
<mpt> wers, no problem, my fault for not sending a reminder
<wers> mpt, nah I was actually aware of the meeting. was just stuck on the road
<abhijit> seen
<abhijit> :)
<julianarmando> time
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-16
<pleia2> hey folks, might not get quorum for tonights americas board meeting
<ddecator> :(
<dyfet> ah...ok
<julianarmando> :(
<zkriesse> Meeting start?
<maco> unsure we'll make qorum
<maco> working on ti
 * maco calls dinda's phone and next greg's
<greg-g> I'm here! :)
<maco> oh ok!
<maco> how many is quorum?
<C3s4r> Hi all!
<greg-g> 4 :/
<zkriesse> maco: I believe four
<maco> hmm we have 3 right now....
<julianarmando> expect?
<maco> i'm trying to get ahold of dinda
<julianarmando> wait a few minutes?
<IngForigua> good evening
<maco> yeah
<greg-g> julianarmando: yeah, wait a few minutes while we attempt to get people
<C3s4r> hola IngForigua
<julianarmando> greg-g: ok
<julianarmando> Hello IngForigua
<IngForigua> C3s4r: hola gente
<C3s4r> IngForigua, aparte de ti quien mas estÃ¡ de Colombia?
 * ddecator crosses fingers
<julianarmando> Yo soy de colombia :)
<IngForigua> C3s4r: hoy se presenta julianarmando
<C3s4r> julianarmando, :D
<IngForigua> C3s4r: de donde es ud?
<IngForigua> de que team
<C3s4r> IngForigua, Venezuela
<IngForigua> hmmmm buen team nelo effejax en fin
<IngForigua> artemisa
<IngForigua> buena camaderia :P
<C3s4r> eso es correcto, effiejayx ntovar y otros compaÃ±eros estarÃ¡n aquÃ­ apoyando.
<C3s4r> IngForigua, Artemisa la mejor
<IngForigua> Que bueno otra vez hay buena cuota de hispanohablantes
<C3s4r> julianarmando, de que parte de Colombia eres?
<julianarmando> C3s4r, soy de IbaguÃ©
<ntovar> Saludes
 * IngForigua it is a #ubuntu-meeting-es
<C3s4r> julianarmando, jejeje la semana pasada estuvo un amigo por esos lares. Diego Armando Ruiz. El es de Cali.
<C3s4r> ntovar, saludos :D
<ntovar> C3s4r: suerte
<julianarmando> C3s4r: jejeje tu de donde eres?
<C3s4r> ntovar, gracias ;)
<IngForigua> ntovar: ud es umember
<ntovar> IngForigua: no lo soy
<C3s4r> julianarmando, NacÃ­ en Acarigua Edo. Portuguesa y ahora estoy viviendo en Maracaibo Edo. Zulia. Tierra de Effiejayx.
<C3s4r> ntovar, espero que pronto lo seas.
<IngForigua> C3s4r: que rico por alla :P
<C3s4r> IngForigua, has visitado Vzla?
<IngForigua> pues alla voy a hacer mi maestria
<C3s4r> Caracas?
<IngForigua> tengo familia en los teques
<ntovar> C3s4r: veremos para cuando me animo
<IngForigua> si cerca
<julianarmando> C3s4r: Super bien :)
<C3s4r> IngForigua, jejeje por esos lares vive uno de los miembros activos de team local.
<ZachK_> Guys, it's a meeting channel...not a chat time channel
<C3s4r> IngForigua, espero verlo pronto quizÃ¡s en uno de los aniversario de Ubuntu-ve
<IngForigua> Eso eso :D
<IngForigua> ZachK_: sorry
<Daviey> greg-g / maco: Is this meeting happening?
<maco> we're looking for people
<ZachK_> Daviey: The need qorum
<greg-g> alright, we have 4 now
<greg-g> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:21. The chair is greg-g.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pleia2> hooray
<greg-g> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for July 15th. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<ddecator> woot!
<greg-g> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<greg-g> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<greg-g> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<greg-g> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<greg-g> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<greg-g> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<greg-g> dyfet: you here?
<dyfet> That's me, yes I am
<greg-g> [TOPIC] dyfet
<MootBot> New Topic:  dyfet
<dyfet> While some may know of my technical contributions to Ubuntu, I did not actually come here to speak about that, but rather my community involvement.
<dyfet> While I did the original meta packages for Lubuntu (LXDE derivitive of Ubuntu), I also helped organize and co-ran the Lubuntu specific UDS sessions of the past year
<dyfet> I also helped organize the Lubuntu team along with many others, and helped us work through the process we use for dispute resolution.
<pleia2> yay lubuntu :)
<dyfet> I also helped rally the community around the Asterisk blueprint for the server team for Lucid
<greg-g> dyfet: what do you mean by that? I'm not familiar with the asterisk blueprint issue
<dyfet> And brought together the original 389 team.  I have spoken at several conferences on my vision for Ubuntu as the telecommunications platform, including scale8x.
<dyfet> In regard to your question, there was concern as to whether the community could help produce a working asterisk package in time for Lucid
<greg-g> ahh, I see
<greg-g> so you lead the charge and got it done, eh?
<dyfet> Yes, though it was often being the loudest advocate to the server team for it ;)
<greg-g> :)
<dyfet> Finally...my other interests are in accessibility to better enable Ubuntu for blind users, and in bringing computing to indigenous communities in North America
<dyfet> I wanted to keep it short, I hope that was okay :)
<greg-g> dyfet: could you say a little more about the indigenous communities part?
<zkriesse> We got qorum?
<dyfet> Ah, my link: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DavidSugar
<ddecator> zkriesse: yes, meeting is underway
<zkriesse> ddecator: awesome
<dyfet> In Lakotah, we have communities that do not have access to electricity or running water.  We are working on a project with treaty school to bring telecenters to these places.
<pleia2> wow, that's great
<dyfet> I may go back there later this summer for this
<dyfet> I am trying to be short because I know we are short on time and long on candidates :)
<pleia2> thanks dyfet :)
<dyfet> But I would be happy to elaborate on anything further as requested, and I do have someone here if he needs to speak also
<greg-g> yes, is there anyone here to vouch?
<pleia2> anyone who wants to cheer for applicants can speak up at any time, so please do
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> dyfet: rocks.. he's done some really good work in the voip area.  His development rocks, but he's also very motivated in keep the teams he's involved with eager.
<Daviey> He's possibly one of the more enthusiastic geeks in that area, and I know that this has kept me motivated at times
<pleia2> a skill that's much appreciated :)
<greg-g> awesome
<greg-g> ok, I'm sorry dyfet and the rest of the community members up for approval, we have lost quorum.
<ddecator> :(
<pleia2> we had a very committed board member tethering while she was travelling, but went into a no network zone
<greg-g> So, that means that the Membership Review Board will review dyfet's application on our mailing list, and email him our votes.
<greg-g> And!
<greg-g> We will reschedule this meeting for NEXT Thursday, one week from today.
 * Daviey wishes dyfet luck.. and heads to bed.
<greg-g> I hope that works for the rest of the applicants here
<ddecator> hopefully :/
<pleia2> sorry everyone, we'll make sure we get quorum then :)
<paultag> pleia2: I'm so cutting your network line the day of
<greg-g> Yes, there will be much prodding and double checking
<C3s4r> ok, no problem. :S
<julianarmando> ok, no problem :)
<greg-g> thanks for understanding everyone.
<pleia2> paultag: I am on a train tethering too :\
<paultag> awww
<greg-g> Have a great rest of the evening and we'll see you in one week!
<greg-g> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:40.
<pleia2> thanks greg-g
<IngForigua> lol
<dyfet> Life happens, and I very much appreciate what we were able to try doing under difficult circumstances
<julianarmando> Thanks bye
<ntovar> jeje a seguir en la dulce espera :O
<C3s4r> yes men :D
<julianarmando> jaja :( que embarrada, nos hablamos dentro de 8 dias entonces :)
<greg-g> thanks for understand dyfet
<greg-g> +ing
<IngForigua> jajajajajajaja
<IngForigua> julianarmando: :P
<julianarmando> ciao people :p
<TechnoPagan_tm> Misterio aka JOHN THE SUPREME COMMANDER jacks off every day
<kermiac> really?
<paultag> TechnoPagan_tm: please be mindful in this room, this is a very public room, and it would be a shame to give the wrong impression of one's self
<TechnoPagan_tm> rauoo the foo.
<TechnoPagan_tm> Micro$shaft
<TechnoPagan_tm> Windows 7 has lice
<ScottK> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<seb128> hey
<ttx> o/
<jdstrand> o/
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * fader_ is filling in for marjo again today.
 * robbiew now just assumes fader will fill in
<fader_> Hehehe
 * robbiew will wait 5min before starting
<ogra> yo
<ScottK> o/
<robbiew> t-minus 2 min
<robbiew> 1min....
<robbiew> [TOPIC] 10.10 - Team Reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.10 - Team Reports
<robbiew> [TOPIC] QA
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA
<fader_> Hi
<fader_> * Hardware testing
<fader_> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader_> Laptops/Netbooks:
<fader_>     Passed: 60 (94%)    Failed:  1 ( 2%)    Untested:   3 ( 4%)
<fader_> Servers:
<fader_>     Passed: 59 (87%)    Failed:  0 ( 0%)    Untested:   9 (13%)
<fader_> Desktops:
<fader_>     Passed:  8 (73%)    Failed:  0 ( 0%)    Untested:   3 (27%)
<fader_> We're having problems testing the desktop and netbook images due to bug 602273 and bug 594162
<fader_> (alternates work, which we've been using for testing)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602273 in casper (Ubuntu) "PXE booting the desktop image fails to configure network" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602273
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594162 in wget (Ubuntu) "segmentation fault while downloading preseed file" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/594162
<fader_> * Boot performance
<fader_> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/desktop/daily-bootcharts/
<fader_> (This does not include netbook data as we have been unable to test the netbook image -- that data will be collected when we are able to run those images again)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/desktop/daily-bootcharts/
<fader_> cr3 is working on a way to provide a summary across systems in order to track regressions and is aiming to have that for next week
<fader_> * Blueprint status for Alpha 3
<fader_> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa-maverick-alpha-3.html
<fader_> qa-maverick-improve-iso-tracker - 100% complete
<fader_> qa-maverick-mago-i18n - 0% complete; will be started week of July 19
<fader_> EOL
<robbiew> \o/ thanks cr3
<robbiew> fader_: thank you sir
<robbiew> any questions for QA
<fader_> Oh, FYI I suspect the "1 failed" on the laptops to be a test issue rather than a distro issue, but we're looking into it
<robbiew> ok, thanks
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Security
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<jdstrand> I have one task from one milestoned blueprint for Alpha-3: merging libvirt. I will do this along with updates I am performing for other releases, which I am currently working on. Blueprints for the cycle are slipping due to high/complicated security update load. The team postponed some last week and will discuss this more at the upcoming sprint.
<cjwatson> fader_: 602273 is in my queue but wasn't as easy as I'd hoped at first glance
<fader_> cjwatson: Ack, not trying to pressure anyone unduly, just noting :)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur is continuing to make progress on security-m-tls-renegotiation-updates, our last remaining essential blueprint.
<jdstrand> The firefox 3.6 transition should be completed next week: the TCK testing is complete, the server team completed tomcat testing and started testing eucalyptus (thanks ttx and kirkland)
<jdstrand> (and sbeattie for TCK testing, and doko for fixes, and too many other :)
<robbiew> heh
<jdstrand> As for milestoned bugs, we have bug #599450, which is listed as a kernel bug, but the kernel is doing the right thing. The kernel and security teams have rough consensus that the fix is to adjust the profiles and/or abstractions to account for the kernel change. There are other potential options, and we plan to discuss them early next week and implement the fix during next week.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599450
<robbiew> ack
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<ScottK> +1 for the security team for fixing KDE backtraces this week
<jdstrand> yes
<ScottK> That's a huge deal for Kubuntu to have that working again
 * robbiew updates agenda to move bug 599450 under security
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599450
<jdstrand> kees has been working on the yama/ptrace stuff, trying to make sure all the corner cases are done
<robbiew> any questions for Security?
<jdstrand> robbiew: there is a chance that there is a kernel component to the fix, but we will know more next week
<robbiew> sure
<robbiew> gives you all something in your agenda section anyway :P
<robbiew> thnx jdstrand
<jdstrand> sure :)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel
<ogasawara> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the item(s) called out in the agenda.  Our burndown chart for Alpha3 is at the third URL, and our overall burndown chart is at the fourth:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<robbiew> and here it comes
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> heh
<ogasawara> On the items noted in the agenda, spec status is as follows:
<ogasawara> * kernel-maverick-apparmor: The latest upstream submission was posted yesterday.  Development is on going and improvements to file, capability, network, resource usage and ipc mediation are planned.  However, With this submission we believe AppArmor is ready for inclusion into the mainline kernel.
<ogasawara> * kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel: Received confirmation from Amazon contacts that pv-ops based kernels should work in EC2 and that the xsave hypercall needs to be disabled or there will be issues with booting kernels. jjohansen has built a test kernel and should have results shortly.
<ogasawara> Bug status is as follows:
<ogasawara> Bug 591941
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 591941 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "SDHC card not recognized" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/591941
<ogasawara> mpoirier is working this issue with TI but there is still no resolution currently.
<ogasawara> Bug 595489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595489 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "lvm snapshot causes deadlock in 2.6.35" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595489
<ogasawara> A patch has been posted upstream but not yet accepted.
<ogasawara> Bug 597387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597387 in Ubuntu Maverick "pv-ops kernel only works in 3 or 4 zones in EC2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597387
<ogasawara> Testing currently underway (See spec notes above).
<ogasawara> Bug 599450
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599450
<ogasawara> See security team notes above.
<ogasawara> As a general status, we've rebased to 2.6.35-rc5 and uploaded.  We're also in the process of updating aufs2 and plan to upload today.  We are above the trend line in our Alpha3 burndown chart but below the trend line overall.  The remaining Alpha3 work items are not release critical.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<robbiew> \o/ on apparmor in mainline
<robbiew> thnx ogasawara
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Foundations
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations
<robbiew> cjwatson: ready when you are ;)
<cjwatson> Lots to do at the sprint; still behind our work item line, although we've made some progress and deferred some chunks of work (notably, we are no longer planning to shift the CDs to GRUB this cycle, although will continue with the work required to do so later).
<cjwatson> Good things this week: chunks of buy-something progress, installer-redesign (though not yet reflected in work item statuses), movement on btrfs-support licensing blocker, most invasive parts of grub2-boot-framebuffer landed, nearly there with package-culling (13 merges to go)
<cjwatson> Specific sprint targets for next week include: parallel debconf infrastructure for installer-redesign; land Python 2.7; sort out live UEC builds; 10.04.1 LTS point release preparation
<cjwatson> We have four milestoned bugs, mostly fairly shallow.
<cjwatson> For full details:
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ScottK> Is land Python 2.7 decided?  I've been getting the build failure mails for the rebuild test and there are a lot of them.
<cjwatson> ah, well in this case I was just reporting from barry
<doko> ScottK: no, but the test results are hosed due to the bad pkgbinarymagler
<cjwatson> "Get Python 2.7 as supported version" is the note from our sprint agenda
<ScottK> doko: Even excluding those, it seems like it was a lot.
<cjwatson> I'll ask barry about that item first thing on Monday
<robbiew> doko: any progress on completing work items for http://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-686-compile ?
<robbiew> apw is sending me hate mail about it
<robbiew> :P
<doko> heh, yes, opening the page in edit mode this morning ...
<robbiew> thnx!
<doko> robbiew: did apw build a test kernel?
<apw> doko, hrm did i miss a request for that?
<robbiew> lol
<apw> i haven't built any specific ones as yet
<robbiew> seems you two should sync up early next week
<doko> apw: s/586/686/ && make
<apw> doko, i thought it was more complex than that, that there was another requirement, cmov or somethign
<apw> i recall we were waiting for a write up of what the specific lower level now was
<apw> and i think we've not done more than that at this time
<apw> perhaps we can get together early next week and sort it out if you are in parague
<doko> well, you were not waiting to drop the i386 flavour ...
<apw> yep, i386 was definatly useless based on the understanding we had, but to change generic we did want to know the specific request
<apw> as sadly noone from kernel was at the session at UDS where it was decided
<ScottK> Any status on getting fixes from the Linaro toolchain into Maverick?  Apparently that'll fix qt4-x11 on armel.
<ScottK> (it built on the rebuild test doko did for that)
<doko> apw: it should be safe to use the flags that the compiler passes by default (which are  -march=i686 -mtune=generic)
<robbiew> okay...we need to move on...this conversation can take place in #ubuntu-kernel or in person next week ;)
<apw> doko, those won't get the right kernle options set in the kernel config
<apw> ack
<robbiew> anything *else* for Foundations?
<ScottK> robbiew: Just the toolchain question.
<robbiew> doko: ? (10:26:22 AM) ScottK: Any status on getting fixes from the Linaro toolchain into Maverick?  Apparently that'll fix qt4-x11 on armel.
<doko> robbiew: linaro is still evaluating the armel build failures.
<doko> lets discuss this on Monday
<robbiew> doko: ack
<ScottK> doko: That doesn't really help me much
<robbiew> [ACTION] robbie to send ScottK an update next Tuesday
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robbie to send ScottK an update next Tuesday
<robbiew> ScottK:  ;)
<ScottK> robbiew: Thanks.  Just was I was about to ask.
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Server
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server
<ttx> o/
<ScottK> Please either include Riddell in the Monday discussion or the Tuesday status.
<ttx> Updated status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<ttx> Alpha3-milestoned bugs:
<ttx> Bug 572317 - image-store does not support images without a ramdisk (niemeyer): no time from upstream (niemeyer) to help, might need reassign
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572317 in image-store-proxy (Ubuntu Maverick) "image-store does not support images without a ramdisk" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/572317
<ttx> Bug 591006 - [MIR] haproxy (clint-fewbar): MIR accepted, needs to be seeded
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 591006 in haproxy (Ubuntu) "[MIR] haproxy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/591006
<ttx> Bug 594372 - [MIR] tgt (ccheney): MIR accepted, needs to be seeded
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594372 in tgt (Ubuntu Maverick) "MIR: tgt" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/594372
<ttx> Bug 600174 - axis2c fails to build from source in maverick (kirkland): just assigned
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600174 in axis2c (Ubuntu Maverick) "axis2c fails to build from source in maverick" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600174
<ttx> Bug 600984 - redhat-cluster-suite fails to build from source in maverick (csurbhi): fix in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600984 in redhat-cluster (Ubuntu Maverick) "redhat-cluster-suite fails to build from source in maverick" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600984
<ttx> Bug 600220 - libnet-dns-perl fails to build from source in maverick (ttx): just assigned
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600220 in libnet-dns-perl (Ubuntu Maverick) "libnet-dns-perl fails to build from source in maverick" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600220
<ttx> Bug 605721 - tgtd target will not start unless it's configured with "allow-in-use yes" (ccheney): just opened
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605721 in tgt (Ubuntu Maverick) "tgtd target will not start unless it's configured with "allow-in-use yes"" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605721
<ttx> I see no blockers there, except the image-store-proxy that might need some digging-in
<ttx> On the specs side...
<ttx> see http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-3.html
<robbiew> ...and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-07-16 decides it needs to disappear.../me pulls up a local backup copy
<ttx> Alpha3-milestoned specs status:
<ttx> server-maverick-tomcat (33%): On track
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-kernel-upgrades (31%): Good progress
<ttx> including really recently:
<ttx> <smoser> woohoo.  http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/maverick/current/ . maverick images 20100716 and newer are registered to grub loaders.
<ttx> server-maverick-upstart-conversion (18%): work in progress, pending some foundations team reviews
<ttx> server-maverick-monitoring-framework (0%): work in progress, several work items should get completed at once
<ttx> server-maverick-uds-web20-workloads (0%): work in progress, several work items blocked on sponsoring
<ttx> for those last two I wanted updated status from Spamaps but haven't had a chance to get it today
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-monitoring (9%): Plan might be refined to reduce Eucalyptus upstream delta
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-provisioning (20%): Good progress
<ttx> server-maverick-wbemcim-providers (75%): On track
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-utils (0%): High-prio items were completed in alpha2, prime target for postponing
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-libs (0%): Low priority spec with only 2 work items, might be completed by end of cycle
<ttx> server-maverick-apport-hooks (0%): migrated to a community effort, only one work item left
<ttx> server-maverick-uds-cloud-loadbalancing (0%): Low priority spec, prime target for postponing
<ttx> Other Critical/High Specs < 40% completion:
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-testing (14%): Most work items about testing should occur at end of subcycle, on track
<ttx> server-maverick-ehcache-integration (0%): This is a cooperation with upstream and they didn't deliver on promised dates, might need to be dropped
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-eucalyptus-next (33%): On track
<ttx> server-maverick-hadoop-pig (0%): Mathias on vacation, work items should still be completed by A3
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-gluster (33%): On track
<ttx> Other Medium/Low Specs < 20% completion:
<ttx> server-maverick-uds-seed-review (0%): Mathias on vacation, work items should still be completed by A3
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-liveusb (0%): Plan might be refined to not depend on cdimage
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-images-sans-cloud (0%): Blocked by kernel upgrade work, still on track for release
<robbiew> ScottK: ack (on Riddel in discussion)
<ttx> So we are globally late...
<ttx> Vacation/conferences/sprint has taken (or will take) a fair share of resources, so some of the Low priority specs have already been rescoped or are expected to be dropped. At this point, server-maverick-apport-hooks has been rescoped as a community effort, and the remaining work items in server-maverick-cloud-utils are expected to be dropped.
<ttx> we'll revisit everything early next week
<cjwatson> uec-liveusb> I added a sprint agenda item for me to talk with kirkland on this
<kirkland> cjwatson: fwiw, I'm reconsidering that one; now that I have learned the magic of live-helper
<cjwatson> ok, up to you, I certainly won't *object* if it's not on cdimage
<ttx> Maverick Bugs affecting server, in other teams:
<ttx> I just wanted to raise Bug 563916 - [details.so] No prompt for [S]kip or [M]anual recovery on server boot
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563916 in plymouth (Ubuntu Lucid) "[details.so] No prompt for [S]kip or [M]anual recovery on server boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563916
<ttx> it has apparently a patch posted now
<ttx> and affects maverick, but also 10.04.1
<ttx> it could use some love.
 * cjwatson has to go out, but has loaded that bug for future inspection
<ttx> Looking at the burndown chart, we are now headed in the right direction, but definitely with a late start
<ttx> questions ?
<robbiew> thnx ttx
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Desktop
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop
<seb128> hey
<seb128> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<seb128> [LINK]  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<seb128> We had progresses on the software-center, empathy indicator and oneconf specs mostly this week. We are still behind the on alpha3 workitems but we should catch up during the sprint (we can postpone some specs to next cycle if required)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:   http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<seb128>  
<seb128> GNOME is still going through lot of changes for GNOME3. Gsettings and dconf (new gconf equivalent system for GNOME) are on the default install now, watch out for issues with those and better to catch bugs before half the desktop is using it. We will try get the GTK2 updated and start the work on GTK3 next week and should postpone the gobject introspection updates until the new abi stabilize (we try to work with Debian on those changes as well
<seb128> ).
<seb128>  
<seb128> No maverick rc bugs out of build issues, still some of those are not fixed yet but we aim at getting them done by the end of next week
<seb128>  
<seb128> I would also point that the number of buildds starts being an issue
<seb128> the archive builds are delay often by a day when there is a firefox security update or an openjdk upload
<seb128> which is every second day nowadays
<seb128> delay -> delayed
<seb128>  
<seb128> that's it from me out of questions ;-)
<seb128> (not sure if Riddell is around or ScottK wants to do a kubuntu update)
 * ScottK will
<ScottK> All going well except we're dead on armel
<ScottK> plasma-widget-menubar MIR was approved today, so we're on track to get that in for netbook.
<ScottK> we've combined desktop and netbook into one ISO.
<ScottK> Still have a bit of cleanup, but that's less to test/manage
<ScottK> I'm a bit concerned over pushback I got this week about building armel images for Kubuntu.
<ScottK> We've built one since that architecture has been around and I had expected it to continue.
<ScottK> The mobile work we're doing is almost entirely aimed at armel.
<ScottK> KDE 4.4.92 is packaged and built, so we're on track with upstream.
<ScottK> That's it.
<robbiew> thnx ScottK
<robbiew> any questions for Desktop?
<robbiew> [TOPIC] DX
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX
<njpatel> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<njpatel> Working on indicators and Unity as per usual
<njpatel> appmenu indicator is progressing, though we've got a bug that causes performance issues
<njpatel> we're looking into it, next week will help
<njpatel> soundmenu is getting better UI, more features
<njpatel> -network, -datetime, -me have pretty much stalled due to holidays
<njpatel>  
<njpatel> Unity has got global search, appindicators integration
<njpatel> sub-menu bug was fixed, so we can drop the double menus
<njpatel> we are looking into power-usage
<njpatel> Mutter seems to be somewhat of a resource hog, so we need to fix that
<njpatel> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtscriptgenerator/+bug/600943
<njpatel> has been updated
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600943 in qtscriptgenerator (Ubuntu Maverick) "qtscriptgenerator fails to build from source in maverick" [High,Confirmed]
<njpatel> agateau spoke to some qt guys and added some info to the bug
<njpatel> Alright, i think that's it
<njpatel> Oh, I tried to update the blueprints that I could, so the workitem graph thing updates
<robbiew> njpatel: heh..."workitem graph thing"
<robbiew> thnx njpatel
<robbiew> any questions for DX?
<njpatel> I know there's a name for it, just can't remember right now :)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM
<ogra> oh, thats me !
 * ogra waves arms 
<ogra> Detailed status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Short summary:
<ogra>  * massive work on rootstock has been done by rsalveti, plenty of bugs fixed
<ogra>  * omap3/4 image speed issues are being debugged and worked on
<ogra>  * image build speed improvements for preinstalled images in livecd-rootfs
<ogra>  * work on fixing openjdk build failure is going on
<ogra>  * ongoing "normal" work on main ftbfs
<ogra>  * mobile-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl is currently blocked on a code drop from DX (tedg)
<ogra> A3 Status:
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<ogra> (sorry for the wrong trendline)
<ogra> ...
<ogra> A3 targeted specs:
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-m-image-builds-without-root
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-m-omap-edid-autodetection
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl
<ogra> ...
<ogra> There are 9 bugs A3 targeted for A3 currently
<ogra> ...
<ogra> 1 Blocker Bug:
<ogra> bug 605739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605739 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "BUG: Bad page state in process swapper pfn:94d23" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605739
<ogra> any questions ?
<robbiew> thnx ogra
<robbiew> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<robbiew> ScottK anything to report?
<ScottK> Yes
<robbiew> the stage is yours :)
<ScottK> The buildd backlogs for the last week or two are starting to worry me.
<ScottK> I know it will catch up eventually, but in the mean time there is a lot of potential for archive skew problems in Universe.
<ScottK> I'm assuming the recent spate of Mozilla security stuff will stop eventually.
<ScottK> Python 2.7 worries me as there were a lot of build failures in the rebuild test, it's getting late in the cycle to introduce major new stuff like that and there's not a lot of currently active community expertise to sort out Universe.
<ScottK> That's it.
<robbiew> thnx...and all noted
<ScottK> On a related note, please let sparc die soon.
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Derivatives - Linaro
<MootBot> New Topic:  Derivatives - Linaro
<robbiew> lool: you covering this week?
<robbiew> going once...
<ScottK> Probably busy getting me my tool chain updates.
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> [TOPIC] 10.04.1
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.04.1
<robbiew> fader_: still around?
<fader_> robbiew: Yo
<fader_> robbiew: We've gotten some test results and they all look good, but I haven't put together a report yet
<robbiew> okay
<fader_> I need to verify that nothing is failing before returning results
<robbiew> we can discuss more next week
<robbiew> sure
<fader_> I will put together a report showing what we have next week
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> I posted *ALL* the targeted bugs...as we are getting close
<robbiew> I'll probably start nagging sometime next week...daily... on bugs not fixed
<lool> robbiew: Sorry, had other meetings this week, I'm not sure who was expected to cover this week, gah
<robbiew> whoohoo
<robbiew> lool: no worries
<lool> nothing to raise, except toolchain is ready to merge  ;-)
<ScottK> \o/
<robbiew> you just made ScottK a happy
<robbiew> lol
<ScottK> Yes.  Please.
<lool> [linnk] http://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/linaro-announce/2010-July/000005.html
<lool> (and doko confirmed no blocker remaining)
 * ScottK takes the extra "n" and saves it for later.
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
<robbiew> the agenda is restored...\o/...heh
 * ScottK is amazed how trouble free running Maverick has been.
<ScottK> Clearly someone isn't taking the name seriously enough.
<ScottK> Keybuk is back from vacation though, so who knows ...
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> ScottK: just give it time...you know how it goes...smooth sailing up through the last alpha
<robbiew> then everyone rushes to get stuff in
<robbiew> and the "fun" begins
<robbiew>  :D
<ScottK> Yeah, don't update right before the beta freeze.
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:16.
<robbiew> thnx all!
<seb128> thanks
<ogra> thanks
<lool> robbiew: Ah JamieBennett was packing up to leave for Prague, which is why he couldn't stand here today
<robbiew> lool: no worries
<robbiew> lool: I suppose it makes sense for him to cover best
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-11
<jdstrand> hi!
<kees> \o
 * sbeattie waves
<mdeslaur> hell-o
<micahg> o/
<jdstrand> let's wait a moment for jj
<jdstrand> jjohansen: welcome :)
<jjohansen> jdstrand: hi
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, jjohansen: let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:24. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> due to holidays and the oneiric rally, we haven't had a meeting in a little while
<jdstrand> in addition to our regular reactive work, the team attended the Oneiric Rally and among other things reviewed arkose. Gave feedback to upstream and he will be adding AppArmor support
<jdstrand> (a semi-action item from our last meeting)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> so I am in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I just finished an update this morning that I prepared last week
<jdstrand> I plan to work on my dbus/apparmor work items, am patch piloting, have a training class, and have some archive admin work to catch up on
<jdstrand> that's pretty much it from me
<jdstrand> kees: you're up
<kees> okay, I'm in happy place this week. between the rally and my week of vacation, I'm still a bit behind on email. I'll be catching up and focusing on work items this week.
<kees> that's really it from me. :P
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I have a couple of updates in the pipeline that I need to test
<mdeslaur> and I'm working on testing the apparmor apport hooks I worked on
<mdeslaur> and am planning on adding the apparmor profiles wiki page so I can get the text blurb into userspace
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: TAG!
<sbeattie> I'm on triage this week.
<sbeattie> I have a couple of embargoed items in flight.
<sbeattie> I also have some HR-type tasks that I need to finish up.
<sbeattie> that's it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: tag!
<micahg> I'm still playing catchup, thunderbird update from a couple weeks ago going out today, webkit at the beginning of the week, chromium update may or may not be this week as the 6 week update would be next week
<micahg> will be reviewing our webkit story later this week
<micahg> hopefully no mozilla updates for another 6 weeks :), waiting to see what happens upstream with 3.6.x so that we can plan the stable release migrations for Firefox/Thunderbird accordingly
<micahg> s/6/5/
<micahg> I think that's it
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions\
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions\
<kees> question: why do I have such much email? :P
<kees> er, so much...
<jdstrand> our burn down is not great these days, but that is understandable. When appropriate, we should be looking to finish important work items before feature freeze. several of us are already doing that based on our standup reort :)
<jdstrand> kees: heh-- I hear you :)
 * micahg will be looking at his work items towards the end of the month
<jdstrand> jjohansen: as mentioned, I will be working on dbus this week. I figure I can hack up libapparmor for personal testing, but will certainly need to coordinate with you a bit later in the week
<jjohansen> jdstrand: I'll get you the update libapparmor today
<micahg> jjohansen: make sure you have /run and /var/run
<micahg> oops
<micahg> wrong channel
<jdstrand> jjohansen: even better :)
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> alrighty then
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, jjohansen: thanks!
<kees> thanks jdstrand!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:41.
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: thanks!
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-12
<Ursinha> hello
 * utlemming is here 
<zul> hi
<m_3> hola
<Ursinha> hola :)
 * smb \o
<zul> who is running the meeting today?
<adam_g> o/
<Daviey> o/
<serge_af1> \o
<Daviey> smoser: Is this your chair?
<smoser> are you being funny?
<smoser> or is it actually my turn
<smoser> it has been a while
<smoser> ..
<Daviey> smoser: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
 * smoser quickly does 's,smoser,Daviey,' and reloads
<smoser> but i will chair
<Daviey> smoser: good cookies
<smoser> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:04. The chair is smoser.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<smoser> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser>  * sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued)
<smoser> no sommer here.
<smoser> no j1mc here.
<smoser> marking postponed
<smoser> [ACTION] sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued)
<smoser>  * test alpha2
<smoser> woot. alpha2 delievered. i assume tested.
<smoser> my personal thanks to jamespage and utlemming for helping with cloud images in my absense.
<smoser> moving on
<smoser> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Development
<Daviey> o/
<smoser> Daviey, anything here?
<Daviey> Looking at the current progres we have taken on more work items, this is probably due to some discovieries we had week before last.  I think we are on track to be able to still deliever what we have committed to.  If anyone has any specifc concerns regarding work items, please raise them now.
<Daviey> Regarding incomming bug count, this seems to have raised significantly.  Most of them don't seem to be Oneiric, but stable releases.  The higher count is probably due to people targetting their time to feature work, and getting A2 out of the door.  The smaller team last week, is also probably a contributing factor.
<Daviey> Anyone have anything specific to raise?
<zul> nope..
<Daviey> good stuff.. smoser, feel free to progress then. :)
<smoser> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> i heard that Daviey is attending an openstack europe event tomorrow.
<smoser> any thing else ?
<Daviey> not from me
<adam_g> ill be doing an ensemble presentation at portland AWS users group  july 19
<serue> cool
<Daviey> http://emeaopenstackday.eventbrite.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://emeaopenstackday.eventbrite.com/
<Daviey> (feel free to say H"i")
<smoser> i think its time for our friend hggdh now.
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> I am here :-)
<hggdh> (for a change)
<hggdh> and no news from me
<hggdh> ..
<smoser> then we move on to another intelligent young man
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
 * smb thinks he found the final answer to bug 634487
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634487 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "t1.micro instance hangs when installing java" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634487
<smb> Though you won't like it...
<smb> The answer to that bug is...
 * smoser stopped his hands from clapping
<smb> You really want to hear?
<utlemming> use a different instance type?
<smb> f1574ad9f702
<smoser> http://xen.1045712.n5.nabble.com/xen-3-1-testing-x86-Fix-mod-l3-entry-for-PAE-on-64-guests-The-adjustment-of-td2616303.html ?
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://xen.1045712.n5.nabble.com/xen-3-1-testing-x86-Fix-mod-l3-entry-for-PAE-on-64-guests-The-adjustment-of-td2616303.html ?
<smb> This is the xen-3.1 patch that Amazon has to apply to their dom0.
<smoser> yeah
<smoser> well, its something at least.
<smb> I seemed to work for me when applying to centos5.3
<smoser> we will raise that.
<smb> before 3/3 fail
<smb> after 3/3 ok
 * smb will update the bug report
<smoser> thank you, mr smb.
<smoser> you have anything else ?
<smb> nope
<smb> ..
<smb> (apart from it being hot here)
<smoser> smb, can you confirm for me https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux
<smb> ?
<smoser> my understanding is that I would expect a new kernel to move from -proposed to -updates in ~ 21 days
<smoser> is that right ?
<utlemming> smb: what versions will we backport that fix for?
<smb> utlemming, It needs to go into the dom0 kernel
<smb> if it is not there
<smb> smoser, you link seems not complete
<smb> smoser, though there were quite some unlucky delays with lucid
<smoser> no, it was complete.
<smoser> i'm just asking if that is the general rule
<smoser> that when something says "2 weeks ago" in -proposed, that i would expect a flow to -updates in 1 week.
<smb> smoser, In theory there is a three weekly cycle... in theory
<smb> for some of those there were regressions
<smb> which then needed another upload
<smoser> yeah.
<smoser> ok.
<smoser> anythign else for our friend smb ?
<smoser> moving on....
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<NCommander> on a call,
<smoser> ok. then we're moving on... look forward to hearing more next week.
<smoser> one interesting thing in arm, though: https://rsalveti.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/net-booting-with-tftp-and-pxe-with-pandaboard/
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<smoser> kim0, jcastro?
 * smoser ignores the chirping crickets and moves on
<smoser> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<Ursinha> o/
<smoser> hello Ursinha did you have something for Open Discussion ?
<Ursinha> smoser: not sure what's this topic for, assuming it's free for all
<Ursinha> I'd like to tell the SRU guys that I'm reenabling their scripts, so they'll have SRU reports again
<smoser> well, i try to avoid politics and religion
<Ursinha> lol
<smoser> but other than that, i think its pretty open
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> Clint isn't here, I'll poke him somewhere else :)
<Ursinha> That was pretty much all, thanks smoser
<smoser> in deed.  SpamapS will be disciplined for his absense.  Thank you for pointing that out.
<smoser> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<smoser> Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:00:00 +0000
<smoser> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:26.
<SpamapS> just made it!
<Ursinha> haha
<utlemming> lol
<SpamapS> 09:26 ... Irssi: Join to #ubuntu-meeting was synced in 0 secs
<SpamapS> 09:26 < smoser> #endmeeting
<SpamapS> Proof
<Ursinha> lol
<ppisati> o/
<sconklin> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<sforshee> o/
<herton> \o
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:03. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Kernel development: nothing to report.
<ppisati> Oneiric/ti-omap4: got a new drop from agreen, this time with video, audio, 3d support, etcetc. Rebased it on top of 3.0.0-rc6 and work is ongoing to produce the new Oneiric kernel based on it.
<ppisati> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kt-meeting.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 30 linux kernel bugs (up 10)
<ogasawara> ==== Ubuntu oneiric-alpha-3 bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== natty-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 23 linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara> ==== maverick-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 3 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== lucid-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 8 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== hardy-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Incoming Bugs ===
<ogasawara>  * 40 oneiric bugs (up 7)
<ogasawara>  * 1380 natty bugs (up 13)
<ogasawara>  * 1120 maverick bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 1033 lucid bugs (down 3)
<ogasawara>  * 39 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Regressions ===
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 5 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 43 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 81 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 447 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 245 maverick bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 223 lucid bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 2 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 1 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
<smb> As last week. Only the seccomp mode 2 stuff and that is waitied for
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> I was out last week, but we've recently uploaded the 3.0.0-5.6 Oneiric kernel.  It's based on the latest v3.0-rc7 mainline kernel.  We've also converged upon using a 3 digit version scheme for our Ubuntu kernel version, ie. 3.0.0 rather than 3.0
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<sconklin> || Status of kernels:
<sconklin> || Detailed information here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Hardy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/801636
<sconklin> ||   Kernel in -proposed is awaiting QA and/or Certification testing
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 801636 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.24-29.91 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Lucid: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/807175
<sconklin> ||   Kernel in -proposed is awaiting security signoff before publishing to -updates and possibly -security
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 807175 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) "linux: 2.6.32-33.70 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> || Maverick: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/808934
<sconklin> ||   Kernel in PPA if currently awaiting copy to -proposed. This is a kernel with reverts after verification,
<sconklin> ||   and will not require reverification. Therefore, it will be queued for QA and Certification upon being
<sconklin> ||   copied to -proposed
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 808934 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.35-30.56 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> || Natty: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/802464
<sconklin> ||   Kernel in -proposed is ready to be published to -updates and -security
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||   There was a failure of this kernel in QA due to a kernel option that was not correctly set.
<sconklin> ||   This option had been changed to work around some problems in the ec2 environment.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 802464 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.38-10.46 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> ||   Those issues have been resolved and the option can be returned to the former state.
<sconklin> ||   This was not serious enough of an issue to prevent releasing this kernel.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<sconklin> || Current Kernel versions are always available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || hardy    linux                             || 2.6.24-29.90         || 2.6.24-29.91         ||    4 ||        4 ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-meta-lts-backport-natty     ||                      || 2.6.38.10.20         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-316.31        || 2.6.32-317.36        ||    4 ||        4 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-natty          ||                      || 2.6.38-10.44~lucid1  ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.32.24         || 2.6.32.33.25         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.30.38         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-30.54~lucid1  ||   21 ||       21 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.32.38         || 2.6.32.33.39         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.7               || 1.34.10              ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-32.62         || 2.6.32-33.70         ||    4 ||        4 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-32.32         || 2.6.32-33.33         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.316.17        || 2.6.32.317.18        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-mvl-dove                    || 2.6.32-416.33        || 2.6.32-417.34        ||    6 ||        6 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               || 2.6.32.416.6         || 2.6.32.417.7         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.6               || 1.38.8               ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-30.54         || 2.6.35-30.55         ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || natty    linux-meta-ti-omap4               ||                      || 2.6.38.1209.7        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.38    ||                      || 2.6.38-10.6          ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    ||                      || 1.52.1               ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             ||                      || 2.6.38-10.46         ||   15 ||       15 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ti-omap4                    ||                      || 2.6.38-1209.13       ||   10 ||       10 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        ||                      || 2.6.38.10.25         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> for your amusement: http://people.canonical.com/~bradf/
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:10.
<jasric89> hi
<jasric89> is anyone here
<jasric89> ?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> this is the meeting channel
<charlie-tca> There is no meeting at this time
 * patdk-wk runs around the meeting hall like a 2year old
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-13
<barry> hi everyone.  if i'm not mistaken, it's time once again for our bi-weekly udd stakeholders meeting
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:01. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jelmer> hi barry!
<barry> jelmer: hi!
<poolie> hi barry, jelmer
<barry> hi poolie
<barry> do you know if anyone else is joining us today?
<barry> well, anyway, let's get started
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110713
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110713
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry>    * jelmer to study the feasibility of merge helper ([[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-builddeb/+bug/608675|bug 608675]]) as an intermediate step for quilt support
<barry>  
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 608675 in bzr-builddeb "merge-package should have support for manipulating quilt v3 patch stacks" [High,In progress]
<jelmer> I've been away for the last week so haven't spent any time on this since
<jelmer> at the last meeting (at the rally) we discussed it, and my conclusions there were that it seems feasible and I've started working on implementing it.
<barry> jelmer: awesome.  we'll just keep it on for next time
<poolie> that's great
<barry>    * jelmer to look into [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/609187|bug 609187]] (warn when package import is out of date)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 609187 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "users are not warned when branching ubuntu:foo (or lp:ubuntu/foo) and the package import of foo is out of date" [High,Triaged]
<poolie> there was some discussion recently of this being useful even for non-quilt branches
<poolie> hm
<poolie> or, more generally, of being able to merge both the patched and unpatched forms
<jelmer> jam mentioned on IRC earlier that he's working on bug 609187
<poolie> barry, i think jam and others worked on that
<poolie> oh, and maxb in london
<barry> very nice.  so, in progress?
<jelmer> yep
<jelmer> should perhaps be owned by jam though?
<james_w> hi
<maxb> jam has taken my proof of concept "How to talk to LP without launchpadlib" and is pursuing it
<barry> sure, i can update that.
<poolie> hi maxb
<barry> hi maxb
<barry> maxb: do you just make straight up http calls?
<poolie> the point of avoiding lplib is that it's much faster to just make the single call we care about
<poolie> yes
<barry> makes sense
<maxb> Minimizing roundtrips and costly WADL downloads really matters if we're going to do this interactively
<barry> +1
<Pendulum> 
<barry>    * Riddell to file bug saying that packaging branch pages on code.lp.net should be better labeled
<barry> anybody know if the bug has been filed?
<poolie> istr that he did
<jelmer> ... and fixed the bug :)
<poolie> and, perhaps he worked on it at the rally
<poolie> hooray
<barry> yay!
<barry> do you happen to have the bug #?
<poolie> bug 797688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 797688 in Launchpad itself "Ubuntu Packaging Branches Should be Labeled Clearer" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797688
<barry> thanks (you're quicker at searching than me at this hour :)
<poolie> i have kanban fu
<poolie> http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/jr-kanban.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/jr-kanban.html
<poolie> scan down the right hand column until you find it
<barry> ah, nice!
<poolie> i like it
<barry> i didn't realize each person had their own kanban
<barry> [TOPIC] package importer progress
<MootBot> New Topic:  package importer progress
<poolie> yes, there's one aggregated per team and one per person
<poolie> let's see
<poolie> i think max said some new things started failing
<maxb> There does seem to have been a small uptick in the count
<poolie> hm, so it stepped down a bit, but now has drifted up
<maxb> Besides the append-revisions-only stuff, which I'm taking account of
<poolie> back from 400 to 425?
<poolie> some of these are AppendRevisionsOnlyViolation which is a recent regression
<poolie> so i'm proposing to make this rather more of a priority for the canonical bzr team
<maxb> The append-revisions-only stuff accounts for ~25, but I've fixed about ~20 imports in the last 48 hours, which is why were are back at around 400
<poolie> putting it at the top of our quarterly planning commitments, and trying to get it below 200 by the start of october
<poolie> which would be much faster than our current trend
<poolie> thanks max
<barry> poolie: that would be amazing
<jelmer> I've made some progress on support for multiple upstream tarballs, which isn't finished yet but should help a bit too.
<poolie> oh, that's great
<maxb> One thing is that there seems to be a gradual uptick in the number of packages using multiple upstream tarballs. That's also the top single failure cause at the moment
<maxb> Another thing to consider is that quite a number of the failures are failures during the generation of merge preview diffs - *not* the import itself
<maxb> A subcategory of those are, I believe, being addressed by a bugfix of vila's
<poolie> why does it generate merge preview diffs?
<maxb> I'm guessing because james_w thought it would be useful?
<maxb> I doubt many people know they exist.
<maxb> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/merges/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://package-import.ubuntu.com/merges/
<james_w> I started generating them as a test
<poolie> hi james
<james_w> but never followed it through to be the replacement for merges.ubuntu.com
<james_w> hi
<poolie> huh
<barry> james_w: hi.  i didn't know that existed either
<poolie> so, what shall we do
<poolie> perhaps we should move it out of line so that it doesn't cause failure of the actual package import?
<maxb> I estimate ~44 failures are in the merge generation. They are probably legitimate bzrlib bugs
<maxb> I think we should be mindful of that possibility, but see how many of the failures are cleared up by vila's NoFinalPath bugfix before investing time
<james_w> that seems to be a fair number of them
<jelmer> Merges are one of the goals of the UDD branches, so it seems useful to keep it in.
<james_w> given no-one is using the output currently it wouldn't really cost anything to delete the code
<barry> or maybe comment it out for now?
<poolie> ok, well, now i know it's there :)
<barry> :)
<poolie> i agree with max, let's see how it goes with current in progress work landed, and then we can think about pruning it
<poolie> or, alternatively, at least linking to ti
<barry> +1
<barry> so, not really on the agenda, but i see lp and bzr got updated last night?  how'd that go?
<poolie> it was a bit bumpy
<barry> dang
<barry> but everything worked out?
<poolie> since we went several revisions forward, and there were some bad interactions between changes in bzr and in bzr-svn when importing large branches
<poolie> we are having a postmortem thread at the moment
<poolie> to try to understand what happened
<poolie> but i think it will be ok
<barry> cool.  i'm on the mlist so i'll follow along
<poolie> we will make it safer to deploy and roll back, and then deploy more often
<poolie> similar to the approach being taken with other bits of lp
<poolie> and speaking of which, can i just say how much i'm looking forward to their new shorter upgrade windows
<poolie> (https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg07623.html but it's a bit offtopic)
<poolie> jelmer, can you tell us about what this is likely to change with imports?
<jelmer> poolie: Can you rephrase that, do you mean the vcs imports?
<poolie> yes
<barry> also, what are the top-level user visible changes we'll see in bzr/udd/codehosting now?
<poolie> we can hope to see more of them succeed after the lp upgrade?
<jelmer> poolie: What was the recent lp upgrade from last night barry was referring to exactly?
<poolie> there should be a big new feature in lp which is showing diffs inline in the branch pages
<poolie> lp had an upgrade outage today (australian time)
<poolie> hm
<poolie> perhaps we should get our story straight offline :)
<barry> that will be *awesome*
<poolie> and then post something on the lp blog about user visible changes, if any
<barry> poolie: +1, can i give you that action?
<poolie> actually could i put that on jelmer, since he landed the change iirc
<poolie> the inline content feature is http://people.canonical.com/~andrew/Inline-diff-screenshot.png
<poolie> not landed yet
<barry> [ACTION] jelmer to post summary of user visible changes with lp rollout
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jelmer to post summary of user visible changes with lp rollout
<jelmer> I haven't caught up on all that email yet, but I'd be happy to take an action item about the post-morten analysis
<jam> poolie: that specific screenshot is for merge proposal pages
<poolie> true
<jam> danilo's change was for Branch pages, which I certainly don't see, but I don't know whether or not his expander code has landed.
<poolie> i think the code changes proposed now may only touch mp pages but we should be able to follow through and show stuff on the branch too
<poolie> jelmer so i guess there's two things to follow on, one is the postmortem (what went wrong) and the other is the feature announcement, if any (what will go right)
<poolie> i had the idea that the updated bzr-git etc are going to help a lot more branch imports complete
<poolie> am i confused?
<jelmer> I haven't landed anything related to the expander code
<jelmer> I do have a fix for having bzr-svn deal with tags better (not use so much memory), but IIRC I haven't proposed that for landing on lp yet
<poolie> didn't you land several updates into lp when we were at the rally?
<poolie> perhaps we should move on; this isn't really udd specific
<maxb> I have something I'd like people to have a think about: What are we going to do about developer-maintained package branches, which don't use upstream-* tags because they merge directly from upstream's bzr, and thus the UDD importer always fails on currently? I'm thinking of, e.g. apport
<jelmer> (sorry, looking through the revision log atm..)
<barry> poolie: okay
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Get rid of `bzr mark-uploaded` ?
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Get rid of `bzr mark-uploaded` ?
<jelmer> taking that offline (in the post-mortem thread perhaps?) might indeed be better
<Riddell> hi, sorry I'm late
<barry> so, if i'm not mistaken, mark-uploaded is more or less unnecessary now, right?
<jelmer> somewhat; debcommit -r will tag too and "bzr tag" without argument can also behave the same way as mark-uploaded
<Riddell> hmm, I was hoping to get away from using debcommit
<barry> jelmer: what does mark-uploaded do that bzr tag or debcommit doesn't?
<barry> i guess there are two things leading these questions: whether to change the udd documentation to just use bzr tag, and whether to actually deprecate or get rid of the command?
<jelmer> barry: I don't think there's anything it does that bzr tag doesn't, other than perhaps being a bit more clearly named
<barry> jelmer: cool.  any objections to me changing the udd docs to use tag instead?
<poolie> james_w ^?
<barry> Riddell: i'd like to get away from recommending debcommit too
<james_w> not really
<poolie> i wonder if bzr builddeb could instead hook into the tag command (through adding a hook, not in some gross way) to give people policy checks?
<james_w> probably worth a note that if bzr says that they have to give a tag name they need a newer bzr/bzr-builddeb, or their bzr-builddeb is incorrectly installed
<poolie> if those checks are seen as useful
<barry> james_w: good idea
<barry> [ACTION] barry to update udd docs to use `bzr tag` instead of `bzr mark-uploaded`
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to update udd docs to use `bzr tag` instead of `bzr mark-uploaded`
<poolie> barry i suggested Riddell might put his packaging background to use in working on the packaging guide with yourself and daniel
<Riddell> yes, I'm working my way through it fixing things and working out what's missing or not clear
<poolie> great
<barry> Riddell: fantastic.  you can add me as a reviewer for any mp
<poolie> shall we talk about max's question?
<barry> Riddell: do you want to take the above action instead of me?
<ScottK> Riddell: Does that include non-UDD packaging?
<Riddell> barry: yes can do
<poolie> hi scott
<barry> [ACTION] Riddell to update udd docs to use `bzr tag` instead of `bzr mark-uploaded`
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Riddell to update udd docs to use `bzr tag` instead of `bzr mark-uploaded`
<barry> poolie: yes, let's take up maxb's question
<maxb> <maxb> I have something I'd like people to have a think about: What are we going to do about developer-maintained package branches, which don't use upstream-* tags because they merge directly from upstream's bzr, and thus the UDD importer always fails on currently? I'm thinking of, e.g. apport
<Riddell> ScottK: I'd like to discuss that with dholbach, it needs quite a lot of changes to include non-UDD bits and I don't know if he has thought about how to do that (but essentially i'm working on it from a bzr developer perspective so no)
<ScottK> That's one of the guide's biggest problems at the moment.
<Riddell> ScottK: but the guide should either be renamed or fixed for that
<ScottK> Agreed.
<Riddell> yep
<barry> ScottK: yep
<jelmer> maxb: It would seem reasonable to just directly tag the upstream versions with upstream-X if they have the same contents
<poolie> by detecting there's a revision identical to the orig.tgz?
<jelmer> either by detecting or having some place where the upstream tag algorithm is specified
<maxb> So perhaps the way forward is to discuss with the packagers of those packages how much they are willing to tweak their workflow for UDD compatibility
<poolie> can we do something towards recognizing the actual tag in the upstream branch?
<poolie> there very likely is one, istm
<poolie> right
<jelmer> bzr-builddeb already has a config variable export-upstream-revision which can be set to the tag pattern for finding upstream versions
<poolie> maxb, what kind of tweaks?
<jelmer> e.g. "export-upstream-revision = tag:bzr-svn-$UPSTREAM_VERSION" as bzr-svn's tagging algorithm uses the tag name "bzr-svn-1.0a" for version "1.0a"
<jelmer> The proper place to store that sort of information would be in Launchpad's release information I think
<poolie> that would be useful in other places
<poolie> for instance automatically presenting the releases in the ui and ws
<maxb> As in, potentially making use of "bzr merge-upstream", or setting tags manually
<barry> it's getting late, so let's move on
<barry> [TOPIC] bugs of interest
<MootBot> New Topic:  bugs of interest
<barry> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<poolie> good idea
<barry> anything in particular to point out?
<poolie> i plan to stop the package importer pretending to be james tomorrow
<barry> nice :)
<poolie> lots of bugs there
<poolie> moving across
<poolie> jelmer it looks like you should do a bzr-svn release
<poolie> barry, james, maxb, is there anything especially biting you, or that you think especially needs attention?
<jam> barry: [LINK] lp:///~jameinel/bzr/2.2-is-up-to-date
<jelmer> poolie: I agree; the tags memory usage issue is the main thing that's blocking that at the moment.
<jam> [LINK] lp:///~jameinel/bzr/2.2-is-up-to-date
<MootBot> LINK received:  lp:///~jameinel/bzr/2.2-is-up-to-date
<poolie> jam, what is that?
<jam> I just added a "Branch.open" hook
<jam> so that doing "bzr info lp:ubuntu/bzr" tells you if the branch is up-to-date
<poolie> oh i see
<poolie> great
<barry> poolie: atm, nope. things are going well
<poolie> we need to try again with a 2.3.4 sru into natty
<poolie> ok
<poolie> it's getting late here for sure
<poolie> next?
<jam> http://paste.ubuntu.com/643225/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/643225/
<barry> [TOPIC] aob
<MootBot> New Topic:  aob
<barry> just one small note: poolie the meeting 2 weeks from now is at the wrong time i think
<jam> barry: I think that goes with the earlier action item (that I missed), for checking if import branches are up-to-date
<poolie> yes, it does, that's nice
<barry> jam: thanks
<poolie> ok
<barry> jam: that looks great
<poolie> so we're going to keep it at the same time as today?
<barry> poolie: if that worked for you guys.  it was much better for me ;)
<jam> wfm, poolie is the one most impacted by it
<poolie> ok
<poolie> thanks everyone for coming, especially maxb
<barry> okay, with that...
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:59.
<barry> thanks everyone
<jelmer> thanks barry :)
<mvo> hello
<ev> hiya
<jhunt_> ...././.-../.-../---
 * slangasek waves
<cjwatson> ..-. .. ... ....
<slangasek> heh
<barry> huzzah!
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:05. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko csurbhi stgraber jhunt mvo ev vorlon bdmurray)
<slangasek> and... go
<slangasek> bdmurray ev jhunt barry csurbhi stgraber cjwatson vorlon doko mvo
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<mvo> last again!
<bdmurray> bug work
<bdmurray> bug triage of ubiquity bug reports with SQUASHFS errors, fsys-tarfile-error apport package bug report cleanup, incompletion of ubiquity    install failures due to oom, FTBFS bug report modifications, added bug reporting guidelines for ubuntu-meta, crichton function to deal     with package-install-segfault bug reports, wrote a bug pattern for update-initramfs failures on Live Media and wrote a wiki page to point  people at
<bdmurray> community stuff/work
<bdmurray> review and approval of 2 new Ubuntu Bug Control members, added in iso-testing bug reports to the package status pages, udw class prep and  presentation regarding working with apport bugs
<psurbhi> o/
<bdmurray> development work
<bdmurray> update-manager apport hook SRU update and new merge proposal for oneiric, branch adding casper version to apport bug reports from live     media, updated ubiquity apport package hook to ask permission before adding debug log and block SQUASHFS error bug reports, patch pilot    day (fixed pm-utils failed to inhibit suspend bug, 665651 which revealed a bug in toshset which caused suspend to fail), bzr branch for    unattended-upgrades and messag
 * slangasek waves to psurbhi 
<mvo> \o/ for u-m
<bdmurray> done
<ev> - More fighting over desk space. Now resolved! I'm officially a Millbank-based
<ev>   employee from here on out. Yay.
<ev> - integrating Wubi builds into cdimage. Should be working just as soon as
<ev>   LP: #807974 gets fixed.
<ev> - Further work on the IronPython Wubi test. I now have an executable bundle
<ev>   that displays a WebKit view (of the people.ubuntu.com slideshow).
<ev>   It's 8,751 KB, but I think I can further trim that down some. It's roughly:
<ev>   7-zip's SFX header, a small configuration file, and an LZMA archive
<ev>   concatenated together.  In the LZMA archive is the IronPython DLLs (3.32
<ev>   MB), the Chromium Embedded Framework DLLs (25.7 MB), CefSharp DLLs (293 KB),
<ev>   and the application bytecode (.NET) and libraries (12.6 KB). I'm going to
<ev>   stick an address bar on this and deliver it to The Team to use for Wubi
<ev>   slideshow development.
<ev> - Looking into writing a small C++ wrapper around the front of our .NET
<ev>   application to download and install the .NET 2.5 runtime when it's not
<ev>   present on the system, rather than just letting Windows throw up an obtuse
<ev>   error dialog.
<ev> - Trying to target an IronPython build for .NET 2/3.5.
<ev> - Developer Experience Community of Practice call.
<ev> - Stuck recovering my work from home laptop using the black magic of grub2's
<ev>   loop mounting code (hooray for having a spare ISO lying around in /home).
<ev>   Any thoughts on writing a copy of the installation ISO to the filesystem
<ev>   during installation and wiring it into grub such that if everything goes to
<ev>   hell, the user has something to boot into. Or should we do the ChromiumOS
<ev>   A and B boot branch thing instead?
<ev> - Finished the PyGI port of SegmentedBar and nearly done with the timezone
<ev>   map. Ran headfirst into GdkPixbuf.get_pixels() being hideously broken in
<ev>   PyGI, blocking the finishing of the timezone port. Spent a lot of time
<ev>   digging through the PyGI source looking for the best way to solve this in
<ev>   this brave new world, proposed an approach to tomeu, and may have a solution
<ev>   soon.
<ev> - Helped the web team again with the Launchpad API, further modifying the
<ev>   script I wrote for them to generate reports of what bugs they fixed to work
<ev>   with date ranges.
<ev> - Call with Steve on the plan for Wubi, and the hiring of a Windows developer.
<ev> - Chat with Francis on our plans for the crash database. He's going to circle
<ev>   back with Rob and then presumably continue the discussion on the existing
<ev>   mail thread.
<ev> - Started writing unit tests for gtkwidgets in ubiquity and a harness that
<ev>   plays nice with the GTK main loop and the weird fact that PyGI raises
<ev>   exceptions in a different thread of execution, thus they don't bubble up
<ev>   around Gtk.main. I know, awesome, right?
<ev> - Had to do some running around and paperwork for signing up to Canonical's
<ev>   implementation of the cycle to work scheme.
<ev> - More work on the wireless page for ubiquity. Implemented passphrase
<ev>   handling.
<slangasek> bdmurray: I think your line truncated; "unattended-upgrades and messag[...]"
<ev> TODO:
<ev> - Objectives. Eep.
<ev> - Get hardware expensed for ubiquity testing in the datacenter.
<ev> (done)
<doko> ev: how much are charged for the desk? ;p
<bdmurray> "bzr branch for unattended-upgrades and messages during shutdown, apt branch blocking of fsys tarfile error package install failures"
<jhunt_> Raised MP to revert dokos gcc+armel change for libnih. Worked with
<jhunt_> hallyn to find a resolution for bug 495394. Reviewed marrusl's
<jhunt_> material for UDw. Some progress on Upstart disabling jobs feature.
<jhunt_> Reviewed documentation changes for psurbhi's Upstart initramfs branch.
<jhunt_> Worked through initramfs setup steps for Upstart and discussed with
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 495394 in libvirt (Ubuntu Natty) "autostart almost always fails on boot time host" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495394
<jhunt_> psurbhi. Started to look at bug 436936 (again). Made some good
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436936 in gdm (Ubuntu Natty) "gdm upstart job checks /proc/cmdline for single user mode, won't start on post-boot runlevel change" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436936
<jhunt_> progress but then switched to bug 807293 which I am currently looking
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807293 in upstart "user jobs cause kernel panic" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807293
<jhunt_> at.
<jhunt_> ./-./-..
<ev> doko: I think you pay cvd in endless thank yous and one appears
<barry> rebuilding main dev machine (still need to restore pbuilder/sbuild/vms) - been filing bugs like mad; bug 806661 (python-imaging needs to be multiarch aware); bug 806744 (lazr.smtptest testing); looked at bug 212370 (coretemp kernel module) but need to come back to it; pep382 lively discussion on mlist and code reviews; patch pilot (see ubuntu-devel@); developer experience CoP; lead UDW session on dh_python2; UDD stakeholders meeting;
<barry> this week: work on lts ppa, continue on bug 788514; done.
<barry>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806661 in python-imaging (Ubuntu) "[oneiric] python-imaging needs to be multiarch-aware" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806661
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806744 in Launchpad itself "lazr.smtptest increases fragility of Launchpad appserver layer tests" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 212370 in linux (Ubuntu) "Have to modprobe coretemp manually in order to get CPU temperatures on MacBook Pro" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212370
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788514 in Ubuntu Oneiric "python packages on the CDs not using dh_python2" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788514
<slangasek> barry: sorry I missed the UDD stakeholders meeting yet again; it's creeping towards the time of day that I can make it, but I had an 11pm call last night so 5am was going to be a little rough :)
<slangasek> psurbhi: your turn
<barry> slangasek: no worries ;)
<psurbhi> *) working on making a ppa of initramfs, upstart and mountall - testing the install scripts, updated mkinitramfs and update-initramfs.
<psurbhi> *) done.
<slangasek> and learning about the evils of NSS in initramfses...
<slangasek> stgraber is on vacation this week
<psurbhi> :) yeah !
<slangasek> cjwatson:
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> and gets back to doing non Ubuntu stuff :)
<cjwatson> hah, yeah, I remember discovering the fun of NSS in reduced systems when doing openssh-server-udeb a while back
<cjwatson> Spent most of this week so far working on Launchpad, with mvo's help from the apt/python-apt side:
<cjwatson>  * My dpkg-xz-support branch from last year will be ready to go once apt and python-apt SRUs land in lucid-updates.
<cjwatson>  * My multiarch-translations branch probably still needs a bit more code review, but it's had a DB review and I believe the necessary apt change is due to go in as an SRU.  Unfortunately, I think the Launchpad downtime schedule is such that this may not actually land in production until a day or two after feature freeze.  Perhaps we should go ahead with the installer change to activate multiarch anyway, since the ...
<cjwatson> ... Launchpad work is "only" a bandwidth reduction exercise?
<cjwatson>  * Good news: it only took about half a day to set up a Launchpad development VM, and most of that was waiting for downloads.  It's not as hard as I remember it being.
<cjwatson> Working on mountall for /run transition, with Steve.  Will review Surbhi's stop-timer branch again once that transition is unstuck.
<cjwatson> Kicked off preliminary CD building for 10.04.3.
<cjwatson> Working on apt-setup error handling in the case of a non-downloadable local repository key (bug 728710).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728710 in apt-setup (Ubuntu) "d-i apt-setup/local0/repository not working" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728710
<cjwatson> Launchpad branch to add Lubuntu tasks has landed, so I'll be working on getting Lubuntu CDs going once we can debootstrap again.
<cjwatson> Almost done with home plumbing problems saga of doom, at long last \o/
<cjwatson> --
<psurbhi> cjwatson, thanks !
<psurbhi> i am waiting for the mountall review !
<psurbhi> :)
<cjwatson> sorry that's taken so long :-/
<slangasek> activate multiarch anyway> that seems fair to do now and give a bandwidth hit since it only affects those using the dev release
<psurbhi> np
<slangasek> as long as we're confident we'll have it really really fixed by beta :)
<cjwatson> yeah, the branch is not that painful
<cjwatson> although I don't actually have figures for how much it cuts
<cjwatson> I should work on that
<cjwatson> OK then, I'll pull the switch in the installer if I can say you told me to do it :-)
<mvo> what could possible go wrong?
 * slangasek gets the asbestos longjohns out of storage
<cjwatson> you had them in storage?
<slangasek> global warming
<cjwatson> you've been away from platform too long
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> my turn
<slangasek> this week has pretty much been eaten up with bug #807974, development-wise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807974 in eglibc (Ubuntu Oneiric) "debootstrap fails to install libc6 installing oneiric from natty" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807974
<slangasek> started my long heart-to-heart with the initscripts merge on Friday... been working on it since
<slangasek> should actually be in a position to upload initscripts+mountall later today
<slangasek> if someone were to have a look at debianutils and see whether we should merge it from unstable, that would knock one prereq off my list
<cjwatson> I can do that
<slangasek> thanks :)
<slangasek> nothing else to report here
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - updates and merges: binutils, gcc-4.6, gcc-4.5, gcc-4.4, gcj-4.5
<doko> - python 3.2.1 release
<doko> - openjdk-7 and openjdk-6 updates, build fixes for powerpc and armel (and sparc)
<doko> - some other merges and syncs
<doko> - just one MIR
<doko> - new installation on a toshiba ac100 (armel)
<doko> - integrated some GCC patches upstream
<doko> - GCC bug triage
<doko> rebuild test not yet launched
<doko> done
<mvo> software-center: debug/fix hang in piston helper, fix pyflakes issues, SRU for maverick/natty to obstrufucate private PPA details from the log, add some gtk3 specific tests
<mvo> apt/python-apt: signature verification work, improve support for compression in python-apt and avoid code duplicatoin, lucid-proposed backport of long-description splitout and xz-compression,
<mvo> debdelta: setup prototype for securty deltas on macaroni, waiting for IS for a role-account and a final place, send some patches to debdelta upstream
<mvo> software-properties: work on dbus/polkit backend code based on apacheloggers branch, add tests for all the dbus methods (backend now mostly there)
<mvo> update-manager: merge gtk3/pygi/gsettings branch, fix tests and upload
<mvo> misc: debug/fix upgrade issue with doc-base  (#781076), debug/fix lp-extract-changelogs hang, apt-btrfs-snapshot: fix crash when fstab misses some entries, upload new version, merged gparted, played with livebuild as replacement for ubuntu-vm-builder that the server team wants to deprecate
<mvo> EOF
<mvo> cjwatson: what do you reckon would it take to write a wrapper that has a similar "ui" as ubuntu-vm-builder, i.e. "ubuntu-vm-builder-using-live-build kvm lucid" and it would build a minimal qcow2 image? or does that not make much sesne at all?
<cjwatson> mvo: it's not too hard, make an auto directory and symlink canned config/build/clean scripts into it the way livecd-rootfs does, then call lb config and lb build
<cjwatson> mvo: and either patch live-build to add facilities you need (and forward them to Debian, please) or else add hooks in your build wrapper
<mvo> cjwatson: that sounds encouraging, I assume I can make it output a raw image that I can then covert to qcow2? or does it do qcow2 natively?
<cjwatson> mvo: no native support.  there are various image output options, you should be able to bodge one of them into a useful form yes
<cjwatson> 'man lb config'
<mvo> great, thanks
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Oneiric bugz
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric bugz
<slangasek> new topic!
<cjwatson> you can probably just use '--binary-images none' or something and do it by hand
<bdmurray> I just wanted to mention a couple of bugs that have come to light in the past week
<slangasek> bdmurray and I were talking this past week about bug tracking for the release, and the conclusion was that it would be useful to have a slot during the weekly meeting to talk about the status of any bugs that might be lingering
 * slangasek yields the floor to bdmurray :)
<bdmurray> bug 807636 was found while isotesting
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807636 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[Oneiric Alpha] ubiquity doesn't show console when clicking in detailed view" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807636
<cjwatson> I wondered why you assigned that to mvo
<cjwatson> though I don't mind if mvo wants it :)
<bdmurray> cjwatson: I think it was rather early for me
<cjwatson> ah, yeah, you undid that latere
<bdmurray> bug 806574 is a regression and targetted to Oneiric
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806574 in computer-janitor (Ubuntu Oneiric) "computer-janitor-gtk crashed with AttributeError in reorder(): 'ListStore' object has no attribute 'reorder'" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806574
<mvo> *puhhh* for a moment I was scared ;)
<barry> bdmurray: i'll take that one
<bdmurray> barry: great, thanks
<bdmurray> and then bug 806543 also found during iso testing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806543 in Linaro-Ubuntu "left over cruft in images" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806543
<bdmurray> er 806453
<bdmurray> bug 806453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806453 in udev (Ubuntu) "udevd fails with error creating queue file, instance fails to boot" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806453
<slangasek> bdmurray: that's a duplicate of the bug pitti just uploaded for
<slangasek> tied to the /run transition
<slangasek> bug #807306
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807306 in mountall (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[oneiric] Keyboard & mouse not working in X - incomplete migration to /run" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807306
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay great
<bdmurray> what about bug 791134? should it be fixed with pitti's upload too?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791134 in sbuild (Ubuntu) "Debian/sid and oneiric based builds fail" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791134
<slangasek> that bug number looks wrong for it to be a duplicate
<slangasek> too old, this issue was just introduced last Thursday
<slangasek> oh, wait
<slangasek> Debian/sid - so that was the same bug, but in Debian :)
<cjwatson>   * Compatibility symbolic links are relative, not absolute.  e.g.
<cjwatson>     /var/lock is ../run/lock rather than /run/lock.  This means that if
<cjwatson>     you're using a chroot from the host system, you'll always be using
<cjwatson>     locations in the chroot, rather than the host, when following the
<cjwatson>     links.
<bdmurray> right and I just (yesterday) ran into it with oneiric
<cjwatson> sysvinit 2.88dsf-13.5
<cjwatson> hm, except:
<cjwatson>         # Create absolute symlink if not already present.  This is to
<cjwatson>         # upgrade from older versions which created relative links,
<cjwatson>         # which are not permitted in policy between top-level
<cjwatson>         # directories.
<cjwatson> so I'm confused
<cjwatson> ah yes
<cjwatson>   * Revert to using absolute paths in compatibility symlinks in order
<cjwatson>     to comply with Policy Â§10.5 symlink rules. (Closes: #626263)
<cjwatson> I guess sbuild needs to cope then?
<slangasek> ah, fun
<slangasek> I had assumed rleigh knew what he was doing and was going to stick with the not-quite-policy symlinks on purpose
<cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=626826
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=626826
<ubottu> Debian bug 626826 in sbuild "sbuild: /var/lock being absolute symlink -> "Another sbuild process (...) is currently using the build chroot"" [Normal,Fixed]
<cjwatson> so we should either merge sbuild, or cherry-pick that change
<slangasek> any volunteers to take that merge?
<cjwatson> maybe somebody who uses sbuild could do that?
 * cjwatson doesn't
<barry> i do
<slangasek> winner
<barry> slangasek: fsvo
<barry> is there an lp bug for that?
<bdmurray> okay those 3 bugs were all I had for this week - the sbuild one was just something I happened to remember
<bdmurray> barry: bug 791134
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791134 in sbuild (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Debian/sid and oneiric based builds fail" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791134
<slangasek> barry: assigned to you, summary comment added
<barry> cool
<slangasek> barry: ideally we would SRU this as well, for the benefit of anyone who might actually want to use sbuild for building in chroots for a different release than the one they're running :)
<cjwatson> ev: could you take the ubiquity console expander bug bdmurray pointed out?
<barry> i'll be rebuilding my sbuild environment today, so it'll be a good time to look at it ;/
<ev> yup
<cjwatson> ta
<slangasek> barry: ah, then you'll have ample opportunity to confirm the bug :-)
<ev> though I wont touch it until FF. It's not a critical bug, as far as I can tell
<cjwatson> no, medium (I think correctly)
<ev> indee
<ev> d
 * slangasek eyes the daily dist-upgrade, getting wedged on sun-java downloads that don't want to complete
<slangasek> bdmurray: that all the bugs?
<slangasek> um.  worse than "don't want to complete", I just saw the download counter roll backwards
<slangasek> mvo: I think I have an update-manager bug to report ;)
<bdmurray> slangasek: well not *all* the bugs but the ones that appeared on my radar this week
<slangasek> bdmurray: :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ev> slangasek: so, out of random curiosity, what are your thoughts on using the Windows NT PAM module in, say, Wubi?
<mvo> slangasek: *ick* it rolls *backwards* ?
 * ev ducks
<slangasek> mvo: yes, it went from 'Downloaded 25.1 MB of 28.7 MB' to 'Dowloaded 24.8 MB of 28.7 MB'
<slangasek> mvo: it is now at 'Downloaded 33.1 MB of 28.7 MB' :)
<slangasek> 33.4 ... 33.5 ... 33.6 ... 33.5....
<slangasek> 33.1...
<mvo> hahaa, woah
<slangasek> now it's finally decided it's finished :-)
<mvo> that is on a amd64, right?
<slangasek> ev: so, ah, I would defer to the security team on this
<slangasek> mvo: yep
<ev> slangasek: well played
<ev> it's seemingly the only thing standing between me and single click wubi installations.
<ev> so I'm just toying around with the idea
<slangasek> ev: there should be an analysis of whether the default hashes used by Windows there are as strong as what we get by default with pam_smbpasswd, which we *do* pull in by default whenever filesharing is turned on
<ev> (see: not for oneiric)
<ev> to be clear, is there just the one that comes from Microsoft's Services for UNIX, or is there an open source implementation kicking about?
<slangasek> ev: however, *I* am not opposed to the idea in principle; I did, after all, implement pam_smbpasswd with its 'migrate' option
<ev> yay, that I like to hear
<slangasek> oh, I don't know if there's an open source one
<slangasek> I thought you had one in mind
<slangasek> pam_smbpasswd could do it, if samba were wired up to support reading directly from the Windows database
<slangasek> but I don't know the database format
<slangasek> I think the person to talk to about this is probably Simo Sorce at Red Hat
<slangasek> (Samba Team member)
<ev> okay
<ev> mind you, I'm not opposed to using Microsoft's
<ev> if they wrote it, chances are it works
<slangasek> but I'm guessing its license isn't GPL-compatible :-)
<ev> pish tosh
<ev> neither is Broadcom's
<slangasek> but PAM modules we configure by default get intentionally loaded into memory by every authentication-using application on the system, many of which are GPL
<ev> ah, damn
 * ev shakes his fist at Stallman
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:53.
<slangasek> thanks, everyone!
<ev> fanks!
<barry> thanks!
<jhunt_> thx
<jibel> hggdh, patrickmw pedro_ bdmurray Ursinha charlie-tca meeting time ?
<pedro_> hello
<jibel> hello pedro_
 * patrickmw waves
<patdk-wk> hmm?
<bdmurray> oh hai
 * pgraner waves
<jibel> hggdh, you're chairing today
<jibel> you volunteered, remember ?
<patdk-wk> oh, wrong channel :)
<jibel> I'll do, hggdh to chair next meeting
<jibel> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:04. The chair is jibel.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jibel> [topic] Previous Actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Previous Actions
<jibel> no actions from previous meeting.
<jibel> [topic] Community Efforts/Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community Efforts/Testing
<pgraner> jibel, question, I saw a bug day announcement go out with no test in the body of the email, might need a resend?
<pgraner> pedro_, sent it out I think
<jibel> pedro_ resent it.
<jibel> there is a bug in evolution
<pedro_> pgraner, it was re sent already, is an evolution bug
<bdmurray> I don't thnk the resend went to ubuntu-devel-announce
<pedro_> its sending empty body messages...
<pgraner> pedro_, cool then it hasn't made it to me yet
<jibel> pedro_, did you resent to ubuntu-devel-announce ?
<pedro_> jibel, yes
<jibel> pedro_, thanks.
<pedro_> it was re sent to the same mailing lists
<pedro_> looks like evolution really want me to switch to thunderbird :-P
<bdmurray> I'll check the moderation queue then
<jibel> Last week was Oneiric Alpha2
<jibel> You'll find the results at [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/OneiricAlpha2TestReport
<jibel> not much to add, please read the results and if you have questions just ask.
<pgraner> One quick note, I  have had several developers contact me with good words about the testing this cycle
<pgraner> specifically:
<pgraner> * No critical issues requiring a late respin
<pgraner> * No installer issues
<pgraner> due to the automated testing
<pgraner> all were caught and fixed prior
<pgraner> Great work!
<pgraner> ..
<patrickmw> +1
<pedro_> awesome \o/
<jibel> yay, that's good to see the result of our testing effort \o/
<jibel> Next week, we will test 10.04.3 and there will be no automation.
<jibel> there are still some SRUs to verify http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<patrickmw> 0/
<jibel> patrickmw, ?
<jibel> patrickmw, We are all ears
<patrickmw> I'm glad you mentioned the lack of testing.
<patrickmw> Do we have older lucid tests?
<jibel> the automated test doesn't run on Lucid and we estimated that it was a lot of work to backport them to lucid for 2 point releases only
<patrickmw> the reason I ask is that we will be adding kernel sru tests for LTS.  just wondering if I could add things while I was at it
<patrickmw> ok, fair enough
<jibel> kernel SRU is a different thing, it has to be done on a very regular basis, next week we'll be testing ISOs that happens every 6 months for an LTS
<skaet> o/
<jibel> skaet, ?
<skaet> would just like to encourage any one with the right hardware and spare cycles to help with the verification.
<skaet> There are some old bugs that seem to be lingering in the pending-sru.html list that would be good to get fixed and out with 10.04.3
<skaet> thanks.
<jibel> indeed. If you're willing to help the first images of 10.04.3 landed today on cdimage.u.c
<jibel> only powerpc is available at the moment.
<jibel> So keep monitoring http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lucid/ for other images.
<jibel> And to second what skaet said, you don't need to wait next week to start smoketesting the images.
<jibel> Still on community testing, but another area: nVidia/ATI proprietary drivers testing.
<jibel> We sent a call for testing proprietary graphics driver today.https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/ProprietaryDrivers/Oneiric/VideoDrivers
<jibel> If you have an nVidia (GeForce 6 or higher) or ATI (R600 or higher) graphics card you can help with testing the drivers in Oneiric and report rthe results to the tracker http://xorg.qa.ubuntu.com
<jibel> Any question or comment ?
<jibel> [topic] Automated/Systems Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Automated/Systems Testing
<jibel> patrickmw, the floor is yours
<patrickmw> = QA Lab =
<patrickmw> * Albali is configured as an additional Jenkins slave
<patrickmw> * Naartjie is next.  Need access to Remote KVM (appears to be locked.)  I've been in contact with IS about the issue.
<patrickmw>  
<patrickmw> = Kernel SRU =
<patrickmw> * Proposed branch for merge to allow -proposed update testing
<patrickmw> * add QRT tests when ppa is complete
<patrickmw> * add lucid (updates and proposed)
<patrickmw>  
<patrickmw> = Ubiquity Testing =
<patrickmw> * Pending status on Evan. I've contacted him this week.
<patrickmw>  
<patrickmw> = Upgrade Testing =
<patrickmw> * Albali is ready for Michael to migrate the update test framework.  He is aware and will inform me when he's ready.
<patrickmw>  
<patrickmw> = DX Testing =
<patrickmw> * Alex provided a list of packages with build-time tests.
<patrickmw> * We will be having a further discussion on tests with specific graphics hardware requirements
<patrickmw>  
<patrickmw> = IPv6 Testing =
<patrickmw> * Working with Foundations team.  Test plan is complete.
<patrickmw> * Stefane is completing work on the framework.
<patrickmw>  
<patrickmw> = Other projects =
<patrickmw> * Wubu - jibel is the owner
<patrickmw> * Boot metrics - pending
<patrickmw> * Ubuntu packages - pending
<patrickmw>  
<patrickmw> questions?
<patrickmw> ..
<hggdh> I have a merge to propose for the server mail test; will do it today
<patrickmw> thanks
 * hggdh begs pardon, had a bit of an emergency at home
<jibel> no question, moving on
<jibel> [topic] Engineering Team Bug Status  pedro_ bdmurray Ursinha
<MootBot> New Topic:  Engineering Team Bug Status  pedro_ bdmurray Ursinha
<pedro_> As you might know already we're having a bug day for the GNOME Control Center  tomorrow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20110714
<pedro_> the purpose of that bug day is to triage + fix bugs on the new control center
<pedro_> rodrigo who is the maintainer in both Ubuntu and at the upstream project is going to be around to help
<pedro_> so if you have questions just ask those at #ubuntu-bugs or #ubuntu-desktop
<pedro_> remember, the whole day tomorrow your timezone
<pedro_> ..
<bdmurray> added bug reporting guidelines for ubuntu-meta
<bdmurray> fsys-tarfile-error apport package bug report cleanup
<bdmurray> apt branch blocking of fsys tarfile error package install failures
<bdmurray> updated ubiquity apport package hook to ask permission before adding debug log and block SQUASHFS error bug reports
<bdmurray> review and approval of 2 new Ubuntu Bug Control members
<bdmurray> added in iso-testing bug reports to the package status pages
<bdmurray> udw class prep and  presentation regarding working with apport bugs
<bdmurray> I also fixed a bug in pm-utils that was preventing things from inhibiting suspend - bug 665651
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 665651 in pm-utils "pm-utils does not follow requests to inhibit suspend/hibernate from scripts in /etc/pm/sleep.d" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/665651
<bdmurray> However, this means that some things like a script in toshset would inhibit suspend all the time
<bdmurray> So I fixed that too
<bdmurray> Point being if you see any weird suspend regression bugs let me know
<bdmurray> ...
<Ursinha> I've been basically boostraping in the ubuntu server team
<Ursinha> am working to give them the basics, such as an SRU report for the packages we care about
<Ursinha> reading what we already have, and modifying for us
<Ursinha> ..
<Ursinha> btw, if any of you are using scripts to generate reports that aren't in the BugSquad page, please, let me know
<Ursinha> ..
<jibel> Do you reused this report http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/ to tracker server SRUs?
<Ursinha> jibel: it's not working, just fixed what was stopping that from producing the reports
<jibel> ok thanks
<jibel> any other question ?
<Ursinha> thanks for pointing that anyway, jibel
<jibel> [topic] Other Topics
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Topics
<jibel> any other topic you'd like to talk about ?
<jibel> last topic then
<jibel> [topic] Chair Selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair Selection
<jibel> hggdh you volunteer again ?
<hggdh> jibel: yes, I do :-)
<jibel> Thanks hggdh , I'll be prepared next time then!
<jibel> 3
 * charlie-tca made it, finally
<jibel> charlie-tca, want to add a word before ending the meeting ?
<charlie-tca> Can't think of anything, other than we all know desktop images for oneiric are broken for a week now, right?
<charlie-tca> .
<charlie-tca> ..
<jibel> Yes all desktop images are broken for a week. I don't remember the package that causes this though.
<jibel> Thanks all for attending
<jibel> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:41.
<charlie-tca> jibel: that /run/udev thingy
<charlie-tca> I think
<jibel> charlie-tca, oh yeah the /run transition
<jibel> it's part of it.
<charlie-tca> I just keep seeing people surprised to know they have been broken for so long, when they should have known already
<Ursinha> charlie-tca: what do you mean by broken? not installing? borked X?
<charlie-tca> There has not been a new image since july 5
<charlie-tca> as in, none
<charlie-tca> They can't even create one
<Ursinha> oh
<jibel> Ursinha, and users who upgraded their system ended up with no keyboard and mouse. pitti fixed it on monday
<Ursinha> jibel: I proved that bug myself :)
<Ursinha> last update fixed that though
<charlie-tca> But we still have no desktop images
<Ursinha> hm, that's weird
<rsalveti> https://code.launchpad.net/~rsalveti/ubuntu/oneiric/base-files/run-transition/+merge/67444
<rsalveti> this is related with the bootstrap issue
<rsalveti> but still not yet applied :-(
<Ursinha> that's really bad
<Ursinha> jibel: is this the bug preventing images to be generated?
<Ursinha> if so, I wonder why the fix wasn't applied yet
<rsalveti> probably waiting slangasek to get the proper fix at the sysvinit package
<rsalveti> but still, we should fix it asap so we can at least generate images again
<slangasek> I expect to land this all today
<slangasek> just have a few finishing touches to add
<slangasek> not being able to bootstrap is messy; not understanding what we've done and having bugs drag out until post-release would be worse :)
<Ursinha> ah
<jibel> +1
<Ursinha> I thought the problem was well known, so as the workaround proposed by the merge
<rsalveti> that was the quick workaround, until the proper transition changes were in place
<slangasek> it's well *known*, but it's difficult to understand all the implications
<slangasek> so since the migration has been Real Soon Now<tm> for 2 days, no one was willing to upload the workaround :)
<Ursinha> right
<slangasek> (i.e., cjwatson declined when I nudged him, which is sufficient justification for me to not try to talk anyone else into it ;)
<charlie-tca> +1
 * Kreative` is away: Away
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-14
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ppisati> o/
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110714#preview
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110714#preview
<NCommander> who's here?
 * GrueMaster apparates into the area.
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<janimo`> hi
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<NCommander> hrm
 * GrueMaster notes that we are now in alpha 3.
<NCommander> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<NCommander> we're off treadline
<NCommander> GrueMaster: do you need help with your workitems?
 * NCommander echos
<GrueMaster> I should be able to get them started next week, now that I have systems with sata drives to throw into server testing.  A lot of this can run in parallell.
<NCommander> k
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<NCommander> not much to add here, expect infinity's preinstall pool looks like it got impleeneted (I'm not sure the actual status; infinity ?)
<NCommander> I'm guessing he's not here, if he pops up we'll come back
<NCommander> Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<ppisati> got a new drop from agreen today
<ppisati> that fixes a displauy problem we have
<ppisati> so far i've a 3.0.0-rc7 kernel running quite ok
<ppisati> there's still one issue with audio
<ppisati> or better, with pulse audio spamming the console (and thus consuming 100%cpu)
<ppisati> but the rest looks good to me
<ppisati> i've an ubuntu session running since a week
<ppisati> this was reklated to oneiric/ti-omap4
<ppisati> i think i'll push it today or latest tomorrow
<NCommander> great!
<ppisati> on zinc, and i'll pubblish a kernel to test too
<ppisati> if only i could get rid of that audio problem... :P
<NCommander> anytihng have something to add or can I move on?
<ppisati> move
<NCommander> ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<janimo`> fixed a few FTBFS these days
<janimo`> having a session on it today in Ubuntu Devel Week
<NCommander> w'eve had a toolchain bug which has broken quite a few packages like libkdraw
<ogra_> ocaml seems to be in a bad state, i think persia invested some time last night
<NCommander> has that gotten fixed?
<janimo`> I don't think it has
<janimo`> the register spilling issue
<NCommander> ugh
<ogra_> i dont see it on the ftbfs page though
<ogra_> are you sure it didnt build i.e. someone might have given it back
<NCommander> ogra_: it causes other packages to blow; gcc itself builds
<ogra_> i mean libdkraw
<NCommander> it may have gotten uploaded with the workaround set in its compile flags; I havne't checked all my email yet today
<ogra_> hmm and gcc-default failed to upload ... since may already
<ogra_> i wonder if doko_ just didnt notice or if thats on purpose
<ogra_> ghostscript is new on the list
<NCommander> antone else got something else?
<doko_> ignore gcc-defaults
<ogra_> and cantor (no idea what that is)
<ogra_> doko_, thx
<ogra_> NCommander, move
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<janimo`> ah, libkdcraw seems to have beeen rebuilt successfully
<doko_> would be nice if somebody could look at bug #810402
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 810402 in ocaml (Ubuntu Oneiric) "all native ocaml programs segfault on armel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810402
<ogra_> doko_, see above, persia is on it
<NCommander> infinity's preinstall pooled stuff was covered before
<ogra_> (with some community member)
<NCommander> I don't have anything else to ad
<ogra_> well
<ogra_> we don and wont have images for a while
<ogra_> debootstrap is completely hosed by the /run transition
<NCommander> ?
<ogra_> since quite a while already
<NCommander> bug number?
<ogra_> no idea if there is one
<ogra_> everyone is working on that though
<ogra_> since days
<NCommander> .......... if there is a critical bug with debootstrap there should be a bug
<GrueMaster> Any status on the imx5# images?
<ogra_> there surely is
<NCommander> :-P
<ogra_> i just dont know the number
<ogra_> GrueMaster, persias list points to first images for 20110801
<NCommander> GrueMaster: without debootstrap its kinda moot ATM
<GrueMaster> ok
<ogra_> beyond that ScottK owns them
<ogra_> so ask him :)
<GrueMaster> Wanted to know as that will provide me with a current SATA system to do HD monitoring tests.
<ogra_> i dont think anything has happened on our side yet
<NCommander> can I ove on?
<ogra_> (will need debioan-cd integration etc)
<ogra_> ac100 kernel and flash-kernel support are uploaded to oneiric
<ogra_> kernel and meta are sitting in NEW, i chose to use .38 for the newer packages
<ogra_> NCommander, move :)
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Currently have an issue with two boards with overlapping mac addresses.
<GrueMaster> This will cause issues with automation testing & PXE boot.
<janimo`> ogra_, \o/
<NCommander> GrueMaster: the MAC can be set in u-boot if need be
<GrueMaster> Rest of the systems now have sata<>usb drives attached and are currently running io tests.  Should be done tomorrow.
<ogra_> try plugging the the cable backwards that probanbly changes the order of the MAC :)
<GrueMaster> NCommander: Not automated.
<ogra_> NCommander, there is already a u-boot patch to use the die-id
<NCommander> ogra_: reversing the polarity rarely works in real life
<ogra_> just not in yet
<GrueMaster> The die id is the same on two systems so that won't help.
<GrueMaster> The mac I am referring to is what the kernel is assigning based on die id.
<ogra_> ugh
<ogra_> same die-id ? thats evil
<ogra_> do you need them fixed ?
<GrueMaster> One is an EA1, the other is one of davidm's A1 boards.
<ogra_> else it could generate based on die-id and timestamp or so
<ogra_> so you at least have differing ones for each board
<GrueMaster> I have two more boards coming, and A3 and a fixed A1.  A1 should be here early next week.  No eta on A3.
<ogra_> hopefully with different IDs then :)
<GrueMaster> Work continues on automation using Jenkins.  More ove a learning curve than anything.  Current automated server tests are heavily interwoven with libvirt & kvm, so are all but useless to me.
<ogra_> great, so you can reimplement the world
<GrueMaster> Spent two days trying to get natty preinstalled netbook image (basis of filesystem testing) to run on btrfs failed.  Based on the current status of that filesystem, I am not recommending it for default.
<ogra_> wow
<ogra_> did you file bugs ?
<ogra_> it should definitely at least *work*
<GrueMaster> Coudln't figure out what exactly was broken.
<ogra_> probably sluggish and all, but it should
<ogra_> did you do any ext4 testing yet ?
<GrueMaster> It was having mount issues in intramfs.
<GrueMaster> yes.  Results were posted.
<ogra_> ah, great
<GrueMaster> Slightly faster than ext3.
<ogra_> where ? :)
<GrueMaster> They are in the blueprint.
<ogra_> well, ext4 has a bunch of flash optimization settings you can apply, there should be more differences if you flick all the switches
<GrueMaster> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Specs/FasterPreinstallFilesystem
<ogra_> (i.e. the now well known TRIM support we banged our heads on durign the sprint)
<ogra_> ah, on the wiki
<ogra_> i looked at the spec
<ogra_> :)
<NCommander> anything else?
<GrueMaster> There is probably a way to combine the results into a single chart, but I haven't looked into it yet.
<ogra_> yeah, who cares
<GrueMaster> Nothing else to report on from here.
<ogra_> we only want the numbers for one shot anyway
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<NCommander> GIONG ONCE
<NCommander> TWICE
<NCommander> THREE TIMES
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:36.
<bdmurray> Hello
<pedro_> hi
<bdmurray> #start-meeting
<bdmurray> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is bdmurray.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bdmurray> Time for the Bug Squad meeting
<bdmurray> the agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting
<bdmurray> [TOPIC] Updates of action items from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Updates of action items from previous meeting
<bdmurray> vish to send an email to the lists re mentoring team admins
<bdmurray> vish: Did this get done?
<pedro_> that was done IIRC
<bdmurray> I seem to recall an email also
<bdmurray> [Bugsquad-mentorship-group-alpha] Admin List in Bugsquad Mentoring team
<pedro_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2011-June/003335.html <- that one ?
<bdmurray> there we are
<bdmurray> so that's done
<pedro_> yeah
<bdmurray> hggdh: around?
<bdmurray> hggdh to announce RedSingularity joining ubuntu-bugcontrol
<bdmurray> that's been long enough that I think it should be dropped if its not done
<bdmurray> we'll leave the other one pending
<bdmurray> [TOPIC] Mentorship program discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mentorship program discussion
<bdmurray> Is there anything to discuss here?
<bdmurray> Moving on then
<bdmurray> [TOPIC] New bug control members
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members
<bdmurray> We've recently added the following two people to the Bug Control team
<bdmurray> Daniel Manrique - roadmr
<bdmurray> Brendan Donegan - brendand
<bdmurray> Both of whom have been doing some great work and participating in Bug Days
<bdmurray> Thanks for helping out!
<pedro_> just wanna say that they are both doing an amazing work, congrats guys :-)
<bdmurray> [TOPIC] Open Discussions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussions
<charlie-tca> o/
<bdmurray> charlie-tca: yes?
<charlie-tca> I forwarded a message that went to ubuntu developers about a response given on a bug.
<charlie-tca> The user requested the response be changed. Checking standard responses, he would like us to use that instead
<charlie-tca> Apparently, the triager used his own response, which is worded slightly off.
<charlie-tca> We need triagers using the standard responses, I think.
<charlie-tca> The response in question is
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Needing_testing_in_the_development_release
<charlie-tca> ..
<bdmurray> charlie-tca: I'm fine with modifying the wording of the response - is that something you are willing to do?
<charlie-tca> I didn't see any need to change it
<charlie-tca> The response the user got was bad
<micahg> where's this e-mail
<micahg> ah, found it now....
<charlie-tca> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2011-July/003374.html
<bdmurray> charlie-tca: okay I'm with you now
<charlie-tca> If the standard had been used, I think it would not have been questioned
<bdmurray> Do we know who used the response in question?  I ask because the writer says "The n-th time"
<charlie-tca> I don't know
<charlie-tca> no bug number was given
<bdmurray> okay I'll find out
<bdmurray> [ACTION] bdmurray to find out who wrote comment in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2011-July/003374.html
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bdmurray to find out who wrote comment in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2011-July/003374.html
<bdmurray> and if the person really is saying that a lot I'll contact them
<micahg> bdmurray: see bug 688586
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 688586 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy doesn't work well after update; user should be warned" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688586
<bdmurray> well I guess my action is done!
<pedro_> oh was it me?
<bdmurray> I wasn't gonna say that but since you did ...
<pedro_> guess i should update the comment in the script then
<pedro_> first comment i got about it though
<pedro_> but one is enough
<charlie-tca> well... I agree
<bdmurray> pedro_: if its a script you might consider look at the number of comments in addition to the status
<bdmurray> pedro_: that's bug.message_count in the api
<pedro_> bdmurray, i look at all that
<pedro_> number of comments, status, date last changed etc
<bdmurray> okay cool
<micahg> well, the reporter was the last one to comment in this case, so that type of response isn't warranted
<bdmurray> micahg: that may not the best way to check since any apport bug has the first comment from the reporter
<micahg> comment_count > 1, last_commenter=reporter (not real API usage)
<bdmurray> okay lets let pedro write his own code
<bdmurray> don't need any backseat coders!
<bdmurray> Is there any other business?
<micahg> wasn't suggesting code...but rather a possible algorithm
<micahg> o/
<bdmurray> micahg: okay as long as its not about algorithms
<micahg> heh
<micahg> about a year ago we discussed about not giving stock replies to users when all the reproduce steps are there, this seems to be happenning now with some of these automated scripts
<micahg> this seems to include bugs already in the triaged state
<bdmurray> ah this is leading into algorithm to detect bug descriptions with steps to reproduce?
<micahg> no
<bdmurray> darn!
<micahg> just wanted to bring it up :)
<pedro_> could be those updated with the 'TEST CASE' thing as the SRU's ?
<bdmurray> I honestly don't know how to test for steps to reproduce in the bug description
<micahg> although, if there were a keyword in the description, we could check for that on newer bugs
<bdmurray> However if they were Triaged then modifying the description to add TEST CASE as pedro suggests makes sense
<bdmurray> Additionally, tagging 'testcase' would be much easier to search on
<pedro_> yup
<charlie-tca> hm, actually, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Description does say use TEST CASE
<bdmurray> so what actions can we take / make out of this
<bdmurray> don't auto incomplete triaged bugs via a script
<pedro_> i'd like the idea of having the tag too
<bdmurray> tag bugs with 'TEST CASE' in description testcase
<bdmurray> recommend people modify description with 'TEST CASE' words if steps to reproduce exist in bug description
<micahg> start moving steps to reproduce to description as "test case"?
<charlie-tca> caps, please, micahg
<bdmurray> yeah if they are in comment like #28 out of 100
<bdmurray> heh you don't hear that very OFTEN!
<charlie-tca> caps makes it easier to see in the descriptions
<micahg> charlie-tca: OK, I WILL TRY TO REMEMBER :)
<charlie-tca> oh, man!
<pedro_> lol
<bdmurray> are we agreed on the actions then?
 * micahg does use caps in the descriptions though :)
<micahg> +1
<charlie-tca> +1
<pedro_> +1
<bdmurray> [ACTION] bdmurray tag bugs with 'TEST CASE' in description testcase
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bdmurray tag bugs with 'TEST CASE' in description testcase
<micahg> I would think the only exceptions might be  kernel/X since hardware might not be available
<bdmurray> [ACTION] bdmurray recommend people modify description with 'TEST CASE' words if steps to reproduce exist in bug description or in comments
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bdmurray recommend people modify description with 'TEST CASE' words if steps to reproduce exist in bug description or in comments
<charlie-tca> If the steps are there to reproduce, it doesn't matter if you have the hardware, does it?
<micahg> charlie-tca: for kernel/X it can
<charlie-tca> it is still a TEST CASE, though?
<bdmurray> It doesn matter but its still worth noting there is a TEST CASE
<micahg> if the bug is hardware specific
<micahg> right, I was referring to the triaged part
<bdmurray> ah well the kernel's special
<charlie-tca> oh, kernel team is different on that
<bdmurray> okay any other business?
<bdmurray> o/
<micahg> bdmurray: you forgot one of the actions from your list :)
<bdmurray> I recently wrote an update-manager apport package hook - this is now in natty-proposed and could use some SRU verification
<bdmurray> that is bug 797894
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 797894 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager bug reports would benefit from an apport-hook" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797894
<bdmurray> micahg: which action is that?
<micahg>  <bdmurray> don't auto incomplete triaged bugs via a script
<bdmurray> micahg: I won't and don't - should I email others not to either?
<micahg> maybe?
<micahg> bdmurray: you proposed it as a possible action, was wondering what you had in mind
<bdmurray> yes so was I
<charlie-tca> Heh
<micahg> maybe just a reminder about the triaged state and why bug reports end up there and that people should keep that in mind when writing these scripts?
<bdmurray> [ACTION] bdmurray to recommend that auto bug modifiers not incomplete bug reports that have been triaged as triaged is a state settable only by people who know
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bdmurray to recommend that auto bug modifiers not incomplete bug reports that have been triaged as triaged is a state settable only by people who know
<bdmurray> that sounds reasonably close to what micah said
<bdmurray> so any other business?
<bdmurray> okay thanks everyone!
<bdmurray> #end-meeting
<charlie-tca> bdmurray: Thank you for chairing these meetings!
<micahg> bdmurray: no dash
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:45.
<micahg> thanks bdmurray
<pedro_> thanks!
<kees> heya, i'll be a few minutes late...
<cjwatson> I have to say I don't actually remember what's left on the agenda
<cjwatson> we handled a good deal of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda at the rally
<mdz> I've missed the past two and have no idea what's going on
<cjwatson> I believe that the question of MRE for banshee is still open, but I think we were going to follow up on the mailing list for that
<mdz> I therefore un-volunteer to chair
<cjwatson> the series RM bit I was going to take care of, though haven't yet
<cjwatson> how about I start and we can move through the things I know about, and anyone with more of a clue about what's going on can chip in
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
<cjwatson> cjwatson to set series RM to ubuntu-release
<cjwatson> not done
<Laney> the banshee MRE is done, fyi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<cjwatson> everyone to follow up to mailing list threads
<cjwatson> no ideda
<cjwatson> Laney: oh good, thanks
<cjwatson> (er, one moment, need to attend to my daughter)
<cjwatson> we have the DMB voting procedure question still outstanding, I think, but that really does need to be handled by e-mail
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Patent enquiry - mesa floating point buffer support (RAOF)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Patent enquiry - mesa floating point buffer support (RAOF)
<cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000961.html
<mdz> I'm very behind on Ubuntu email right now, I'm afraid
<cjwatson> mdz: understandable :)
<cjwatson> I was under the impression that our standing policy was only to take action when notified of patent infringement by a patent holder
<cjwatson> however, given the form of the question, I think we need somebody who can assume risk on behalf of Canonical to answer
<mdz> I think we err on the side of making the software better
<cjwatson> does anyone object if I forward the question to legal and/or Mark?  or should we tell RAOF to go ahead?
<mdz> and patent claims can push back iff there is a genuine problem
<mdz> cjwatson, I think according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatentPolicy RAOF should go ahead
<cjwatson> RAOF seems to be following the last section of that
 * kees agrees
<cjwatson> but I guess the answer is "we are not aware of any active claims here"
<mdz> precisely
<cjwatson> and we seem to have a plausible defence anyway in the form of RAOF's belief that the patent involves a hardware circuit
<mdz> yes
<cjwatson> so that's agreed, I'll reply to Chris' mail in the course of preparing minutes for this meeting
<mdz> there is no claim as far as we're aware, and our best guess at a read of the patent says we can't possibly infringe
<cjwatson> [ACTION] Brainstorm Top 10 for June 2010
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Brainstorm Top 10 for June 2010
<cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000962.html
<cjwatson> mdz: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000968.html is directed at you
<cjwatson> bah!
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Brainstorm Top 10 for June 2010
<MootBot> New Topic:  Brainstorm Top 10 for June 2010
<cjwatson> sorry, brain failure
<mdz> 2011? :-)
<cjwatson> further brain failure, but this time on the part of the enquirer ... I was just copying and pasting :-)
<mdz> so I did the first one, and pitti did the second one
<cjwatson> sounds like it's not your turn then
<cjwatson> kees: should we flip a coin?
<mdz> I'd appreciate if we could rotate, yes :-)
<mdz> between me and pitti, there's a pretty well established formula
<cjwatson> yeah
<cjwatson> I'm happy to do it and get it out of the way for a while
<mdz> cjwatson, thank you
<cjwatson> [ACTION] cjwatson to initiate brainstorm review
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to initiate brainstorm review
<kees> cjwatson: cool; I'll take the next one
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<cjwatson> I don't see anything else in the mailing list or community bugs, aside from a few threads in progress
<mdz> cjwatson, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-March/000726.html has all of the brainstorm review resources
<mdz> at least, what existed when pitti started the last round
<mdz> no other business from me
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] chair for next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  chair for next meeting
<cjwatson> I have no idea whose turn it is.  kees, can you take the next one maybe?
<mdz> 28 July
<kees> yup!
<cjwatson> sorry, woefully underprepared here
<mdz> I'll be at OSCON, but hopefully will be able to attend
<kees> it's certainly my turn by now
<cjwatson> I'll be at Debconf, but likewise
<mdz> it's during Debconf too
<kees> I'll be around (not at debconf)
<mdz> ok, thanks for chairing cjwatson
<cjwatson> OK, let's call it a day then
<cjwatson> mdz: hope the holiday's going well!
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:16.
<mdz> cjwatson, it's been grand. getting back to work Monday
<cjwatson> ah, have fun
<cjwatson> right.  pub! :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-15
 * skaet waves
 * rsalveti waves
<skaet> hi rsalveti,  welcome.  :)
<pitti> hello
<jdstrand> hi :)
<rsalveti> skaet: :-)
 * joshuahoover waves
<skaet> looks like its about that time,   nice to see you all.  :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [Topic] Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<skaet> .
<skaet> Agenda is at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-07-15
<skaet> Events Approaching:
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-07-15
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<skaet> Bugs milestoned for oneiric alpha 3 are at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=39142
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=39142
<skaet> .
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> ..
 * skaet looks around for questions?
<skaet> if none,  and I see that jibel_ has joined us..  time for the round table. :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> Hi all
<skaet> hi
<jibel> = Automated Testing progress =
<jibel>  * 3rd server setup in the QA lab and delivered to mvo to migrate upgrade tests
<jibel>  * DX Testing
<jibel>    * dx team provided a list of packages with build-time tests.
<jibel>    * patrickmv to have a further discussion on tests with specific graphics hardware requirements
<jibel>  * IPv6 Testing
<jibel>    * patrickmw working with Foundations team.  Test plan is complete.
<jibel>  * Other projects
<jibel>    * Wubi - 1 system integrated to Jenkins for daily testing, a second system is being configured for parallel testing.
<jibel> Ubuntu Testing:
<jibel>  * 10.04.3
<jibel>    * Smoke Tested alternate|desktop|server amd64|i386: OK
<jibel>    * English|Non-english: OK
<jibel>    * OEM: OK (1 one-time failure but never been able to reproduce)
<jibel>  * nVidia/ATI proprietary driver
<jibel>    * Sent Call for testing on July 13th
<jibel>    * Instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/ProprietaryDrivers/Oneiric/VideoDrivers
<jibel>    * Participation is low. So please teams, if you're running Oneiric on hardware with these graphics cards, help with testing the proprietary drivers.
<jibel> Other topic related to graphics card support
<jibel>  * Dual monitor support in Oneiric:
<jibel>   * Test of Intel Card all failed, the following bugs need attention from the DX team:
<jibel>    * bug 810971
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 810971 in compiz (Ubuntu Oneiric) "External monitor causes screen corruption" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810971
<jibel>    * bug 808677
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 808677 in compiz (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Failed to activate external monitor (dual monitor mode)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/808677
<jibel>    * bug 808685
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 808685 in compiz (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Corrupted display after switching to external monitor (1 active monitor)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/808685
<jibel>    * bug 733346
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 733346 in compiz (Ubuntu Oneiric) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in i915_emit_state()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/733346
<jibel> this was tested on Arrandale, Pineview and GM965
<jibel> * Other Bug activity
<jibel>   * cjwatson announced that transition to /run would be rocky...
<jibel> It was.
<skaet> lol,  indeed.
<jibel> I won't go through the bug list.
<cjwatson> I think we're past the worst of it now
<pitti> is there still major things left with /run now?
<cjwatson> or hope, anyway
<cjwatson> there may still be partial upgrade problems
<pitti> oh, for sure
<pitti> but oneiric as of today should actually work quite smoothly again
<jibel> right the trend of incoming bug caused by the transition to /run is slowing down.
<jibel> Talking about launchpad activity:
<jibel> 788 new bugs reported during last week
<jibel> 60% are duplicates (it makes 316 new bugs and the retracer is still running)
<jibel> 72% are software crashes (apport-crash)
<jibel> 5% are package installation failures
<jibel> Noticeable bugs new and still opened:
<pitti> I spent an hour on the retracer today, it was broken because of, guess what, /run
<pitti> fakechroot is a nuisance :/
<jibel> * zeitgeist : bug 807950 and bug 807076
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807950 in zeitgeist (Ubuntu Oneiric) "zeitgeist-daemon crashed with LookupError in remove_from_connection(): <_zeitgeist.engine.remote.RemoteInterface at /org/gnome/zeitgeist/log/activity at 0xb74ee2cc> is not exported at a location matching (None,None)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807950
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807076 in Zeitgeist Framework "raptor2 not supported" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807076
<jibel> update-manager : bug 807715
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807715 in update-manager (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Missing dependency on gir1.2-gconf-2.0" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807715
<jibel> gnome-settings-daemon :  lot of assertion failures in xcb_io.c (bug 804896 , bug 804221)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804896 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:140: dequeue_pending_request: Assertion `req == dpy->xcb->pending_requests' failed." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804221 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:515: _XReply: Assertion `!dpy->xcb->reply_data' failed." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804221
<jibel> jockey bug 804709
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 804709 could not be found
<jibel> sorry, it's private
 * skaet notes  807076 probably needs its importance adjusted....
<jibel> ..
<jibel> any question ?
<skaet> Thanks jibel!
<pitti> jibel: FYI, retracers are down again
<pitti> I now get a crash on upgrade
<skaet> very much appreciate the smoke test results for 10.04.3 :)
<jibel> pitti, too many crashes, I'm sorry for them.
<pitti> need to sit down on Monday to figure out a workaround
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<mlegris> Hi all
<skaet> hi :)
<mlegris> [Week 28]
<mlegris> 	* No report this week due to images build failures
<mlegris> 	* Until Thursday, 20110705.1 was the last image published
<mlegris> 	* Thursdayâs image was unable to install properly
<mlegris> 	* Todayâs image is able to install, but the full test run would need more time
<mlegris> Bugs:
<mlegris> Bug #810145 - unity-panel-service crashes
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 810145 could not be found
<mlegris> Bug #708286 - Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700R
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 708286 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708286
<mlegris> ..
<skaet> thanks mlegris :)
<skaet> mlegris,  any concerns about 10.04.3 from your team's perspective?  (for next week's release)
<skaet> ara, brendand ^^ :)
<mlegris> skaet: not to my knowledge
<ara> nothing, the kernel looks fine
<skaet> thanks ara, mlegris :)
<brendand> i can't imagine. maybe we should have a closer look though - there are candidates available now?
<skaet> brendand,  smoke test images that jibel used
<brendand> skaet - thanks
<skaet> brendand,  candidates will probably be going on the tracker this weekend,  or early monday.
<skaet> any other questions for cert team?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi!
<skaet> :)
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> After a flurry of work item activity this week and at the rally, we are below the trend line for our assigned work items in our blueprints, and have completed the 'Essential' work items for this cycle. Due to our commitment to reactive security, our team only commits to completing 'Essential' work items during the development cycle. We will continue to work at completing our other ones as time allows.
<jdstrand> We fixed several apparmor profiling bugs, including those introduced by the recent /run udev changes (with help from pitti).
<jdstrand> Looking at the (very long) list of oneiric bugs, I don't see anything else worth highlighting other than to ask about what is being done about the very long list of ftbfs bugs for gcc-4.6. Obviously, these packages are not supportable by my team if they don't build (forgive me if this has been asked/answered before).
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> Thanks jdstrand!
<skaet> There is a way of excluding the ftbfs,  which helps make the list a little more digestible.
<skaet> see the link on the a3 bugs for the pattern.
<pitti> (search for the "-ftbfs" tag)
<jdstrand> I would be interested in that, but mostly I want them buildable again, so if me team needs to patch something, it will actually build
<jdstrand> :)
<cjwatson> the numbers are dropping too, but it will take time
<cjwatson> unbuildable count 20% down from two weeks ago, according to doko
<jdstrand> that's good news
<skaet> ack, on those workitems issue,  thanks for letting me know.
<jdstrand> it is of course still quite early to be overly concerned
<jdstrand> cjwatson: thanks
<skaet> yup,  nice seeing the unbuildable going down.
<skaet> any other question for jdstrand ?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for oneiric-alpha-3 is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> We uploaded the Ubuntu 3.0.0-5.6 kernel this week.  The most notable change is the rebase onto the 3.0-rc7 mainline kernel.  We anticipate the final 3.0 upstream kernel to land relatively soon.  Also, we are trending below the Alpha3 burn down line, with the remaining items not being release critical.
<ogasawara> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> #542660: looks to be related to EFI boot not loading the video bios into ram.
<ogasawara> #557261: no confirmation with a 3.0 kernel and not convinced the warning output by the radeon driver is the root cause of the usb-creator persistence issue.  Bug reporter has followed up in the upstream bug report regarding the driver warning.
<ogasawara> #754711: looks to be nouveau breaking suspend, asked for confirmation with a v3.0 Oneiric kernel.
<ogasawara> #758486: kernel dev was unable to reproduce in Natty, needs confirmaton for Oneiric.
<ogasawara> #760131: partly fixed in Oneiric and soon natty, more analysis ongoing upstream.
<ogasawara> #784937: seems that names of disk devices have changed, investigation by kernel dev still ongoing as well as discussion with upstream.
<ogasawara> #790712: the order 5 allocation seems to be bogus, waiting analysis of debug information.
<ogasawara> #791850: seems to be triggered by an amazon side change which amazon is investigating; awaiting feedback.
<ogasawara> #806113: assigned to kernel dev.  investigation is in its early phase, no additional information available at this time.
<ogasawara> #800697: Fix Released.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara! :)
 * skaet doesn't see questions so moving on....
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> Feature progress this week:
<cjwatson>  * foundations-o-multiarch-next-steps: As of tomorrow's CD images, multiarch is enabled by default on amd64.  Let's hope it works!  Launchpad changes to reduce the bandwidth hit are ready for merging, but will probably take a few more weeks to be deployed.
<cjwatson>  * defect analysis: Several important improvements to apport hooks, especially blocking installer bugs due to I/O errors in squashfs and package installation bugs due to dpkg failing to extract a package's data tarball; over time these alone should significantly reduce our incoming bug count
<cjwatson>  * foundations-o-wubi: New-style Wubi second-stage builds integrated into cdimage.  IronPython executable bundle down to ~8.5MB.
<cjwatson>  * desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3: Still working on PyGI port of ubiquity; should be done soon.  update-manager ported.
<cjwatson>  * foundations-o-ubiquity: More work on the wireless page.  Implemented passphrase handling.
<cjwatson>  * Upstart: Some progress on disabling jobs.
<cjwatson>  * packageselection-foundations-n-event-based-initramfs: mountall stop-timer branch landed.  Work on documentation and initramfs integration, and getting everything into a PPA.
<cjwatson>  * foundations-o-debdelta: Set up prototype server implementation; awaiting IS work for deployment (RT#46678).
<cjwatson> The /run transition is now at the point where only maybe the odd thing is broken, rather than the entire world.  See http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/RunDirectory for what to do in Ubuntu-specific packages that use the old filesystem locations.
<cjwatson> The build failure count is at about 720, down from 900 two weeks ago.
<cjwatson> Ubuntu 10.04.3 imminent.  Things mostly look OK, but there's some verification to catch up on, especially of installer updates.
<cjwatson> ..
<pitti> o/
<cjwatson> go
<pitti> curious, "multiarch enabled by default:?
<pitti> that apparently goes beyond of what we have had since natty?
<cjwatson> dpkg/apt will be set up to fetch i386 Packages files as well as amd64 by default
<cjwatson> the technical implementation is now reduced to putting 'foreign-architecture i386' in /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg.d/multiarch
<cjwatson> and some cdimage adjustments
<pitti> ah
<pitti> thanks
<cjwatson> it's preseedable in the installer so people can play with different combinations
<skaet> Thanks, cjwatson.  :)    Any other questions?
<cjwatson> this should let us actually get rid of ia32-libs, with some more conversion work
<Daviey> (what about flash?)
<Daviey> IIRC that used ia32-libs?
<cjwatson> apt-get install flashplugin-installer:i386
<Daviey> oh, groovy.
<cjwatson> http://web.dodds.net/~vorlon/wiki/blog/Multiarch_Monomania/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://web.dodds.net/~vorlon/wiki/blog/Multiarch_Monomania/
<rsalveti> also, in theory we adobe released flash for 64 bits
<cjwatson> yes, well, we've heard that before
<cjwatson> anyway, flash was never the sole use case
<cjwatson> we should move on :)
<skaet> :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - Daviey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> Hello..
<Daviey> Feature Development:
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<Daviey> Largely we seem on track.  We made some very large changes to the direction of Orchestra which caused some disruption, but seems we are on track with our current feature set.  The one blueprint of slight concern is server-o-boot-experience.
<Daviey> Bugs pertinent to Oneiric Server release:
<Daviey> http://pb.daviey.com/Pv0b/raw/ (rather than flood.)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pb.daviey.com/Pv0b/raw/ (rather than flood.)
<Daviey> ^^ Including:
<Daviey> - bugs we are working on.
<Daviey> - bugs other teams are working on.
<Daviey> - MIR's we are tracking.
<Daviey> Note, that euca2ools are currently volatile pending update - as boto2.0 had landed.
<Daviey> We are also making significant changes to how we handle incoming bug process... watch this space.
<Daviey> ..
<Ursinha> oh yeah
<skaet> Thanks Daviey, Ursinha  :)
 * skaet will go cross check that link against the agenda after the meeting
<skaet> any questions?
<Daviey> groovy.
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - ogra
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra
<ogra_> me !
<skaet> :)
<ogra_> = Full Status is at: =
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Summary =
<ogra_>  - "Preinstalled pool" for the server is about to land
<ogra_>  - Live build issues with filesystem resize speed are still being investigated
<ogra_>  - jenkins integration for automated image testing has been worked on
<ogra_>  - OMAP3 kernel segfaults are still an issue
<ogra_>  - Work on fixing the kernel/bootloader postinst handling is landing today
<ogra_>  - Cleanup of jasper (our resizing tool) is ongoing
<ogra_>  - AC100 kernel and kernel metapackage as well as flash-kernel support has landed in oneiric
<ogra_>  - ocaml is badly broken on arm currently, NCommander is working on fixing it
<ogra_>  - "ubuntu-core" tarball builds are landing today
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Image Status =
<ogra_>  - Desktop images built last on the 13th and fail sin ce due to archive skew once again
<ogra_>  - Server images build and install fine
<ogra_>  - Netboot images work fine
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Specs =
<ogra_>  * Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra_>  * A3 http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> additionally, infinity will help out linaro to bootstrap armhf the next weeks
<ogra_> since thats behind schedule
<pitti> ogra_: alpha-3.html :)
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> eek
<ogra_> indeed
<ogra_> (sorry)
<rsalveti> ocaml is bringing a lot of ftbfs :-(
<ogra_> rsalveti, since several weeks already
<skaet> Thanks ogra_ !  :)    re:  AC100 images - *\o/*
<rsalveti> yeah
<ogra_> all ocaml apps segfault
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Any outlook on when we'll be getting OMAP3 images again?
<ogra_> no, i dont know if the kernel team already found the issue, i dont think they did yet
<rsalveti> anyone taking care of the omap3 issue?
<ogra_> ppisati, ?? did you take a look already )or cooloney) ?
<skaet> ogasawara, ^^ ?
<ogra_> thats bug 806113 btw
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806113 in linux (Ubuntu) "Series of segfaults early in the kernel boot process on omap." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806113
<ogasawara> I though ppisati was looking into it, I'll ping him
 * skaet notes that the importance and status on that one needs some updating  :P
<ogra_> i think he was swamped in CVEs last week
<ogasawara> ogra_: I'll raise it in #ubuntu-kernel and get back to you
<skaet> fair 'nuf.  :)
<ogra_> thanks
<skaet> any other questions?
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> :)
<skaet> Thanks ogra_ :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - ogra
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra
<skaet> oops
<skaet> bad paste....
<ogra_> heh
<pitti> what got fixed in the last 3 mins? :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro update - rsalvetti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - rsalvetti
<rsalveti> - Linux Linaro to be released over next week, based on 3.0
<rsalveti> - Gcc 4.6 and 4.5 to be released next Thursday: https://launchpad.net/gcc-linaro/+milestone/4.6-2011.07
<rsalveti> - Qemu also to be released next Thursday: https://launchpad.net/qemu-linaro/+milestone/2011.07
<rsalveti> - Currently testing libjpeg-turbo on Oneiric, and follow up to see if it's desired to integrate it during this cycle still
<rsalveti> - First snapshot of Linaro U-Boot uploaded: 2011.07.1-0ubuntu1, fixing bug #809015
<rsalveti> - Linaro Ubuntu Blueprint list target for 11.07: https://launchpad.net/linaro-ubuntu/+milestone/11.07
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 809015 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "u-boot lacks unique mac address on Pandaboard while netbooting" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/809015
<rsalveti> ..
<skaet> Thanks rsalveti :)
<rsalveti> most components will be released next week
<rsalveti> then we'll work to land the most important bits at oneiric
<rsalveti> libjpeg-turbo is something we need to work together
<rsalveti> as if we decide to move to libjpeg-8 then don't know if we should move to the -turbo now
<rsalveti> as it's only 100% abi compatible and such with libjpeg-6
<rsalveti> we'll do some testing and see how it goes first
<rsalveti> ..
<skaet> Assuming that .. is done.  ;)   Thanks!   will the eglibc bug 775849 in the agenda be fixed in the next drop?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 775849 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "[armel] eglibc test regressions on armel in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775849
<pitti> rsalveti: is that a patch for libjpeg62, or a reimplementation?
<rsalveti> skaet: hopefully, I'm pinging the toolchain WG folks to check the bug status
<skaet> thanks rsalveti :)
<rsalveti> pitti: an optimized fork
<rsalveti> that firefox and chromium is already using
<rsalveti> ..
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team -  Chickapa or joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team -  Chickapa or joshuahoover
<pitti> Chipaca: ^
<pitti> (to get proper highlight)
<skaet> Chipaca: even.... sorry about that.  :)
 * skaet has corrected her list...
<Chipaca> I am unprepared. joshuahoover?
<skaet> ok, will move along for now.    If there's some updates,  please add at end.  :)
<Chipaca> ok
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team update - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team update - pitti
<pitti> Lots of time spent this week on cleaning up after the `/run` transition, which broke quite a lot.
<pitti> software-center port to GTK3 making great progress, should land for Alpha-3.
<pitti> Mathieu finished his C rewrite of usb_modeswitch, which will get us rid of Tcl; needs code review now
<pitti> Got sunpinyin and dependencies into main (new Chinese input support), now on the CDs. + 4 MB increase, though; we eventually want to offload this to the Chinese Edition
<pitti> Work item status: falling a bit behind on alpha-3, but on track for final release. But we have a bunch of blueprints which can easily be postponed to the next cycle, to concentrate on bug fixing after alpha-3.
<pitti> Moderate progress on RC bugs; no serious alpha-3 breakers right now, but bug Bug:806064 needs some attention for Edubuntu; will ask Robert about it next Monday
<pitti> As usual, details of RC bugs on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
<pitti> CD size got 20 MB worse since alpha 2, mostly as the old Chinese input method `ibus-pinyin` is still on the CDs and in main for yet unknown reasons; to be investigated. Also, Firefox grew by 3.3 MB due to the switch from -Os to -O3; we have a nice potential fix, but currently fails to build on the buildds.
<pitti> ..
<skaet> Thanks pitti.  :)
<skaet> ack on the CD size
<pitti> I was quite shocked to see them after the ten days of not building them :/
 * skaet sees release notes on the subject of A3 as quite likely...
<pitti> but fortunately 15 MB of the 20 MB growth is due to the ibus-pinyin issue
<skaet> okie.    there's hope then.  :)
<pitti> at this point I'm quite lost, though
<skaet> maybe not.
<skaet> lol
<pitti> it's not in germinate, not in checkrdepends
<cjwatson> uh, when I looked, it wasn't on the CDs either
<pitti> it was on yesterday's
<cjwatson> cdimage@antimony:~/cdimage/www/full/daily-live/current$ grep ibus-pinyin *.manifest *.list
<cjwatson> cdimage@antimony:~/cdimage/www/full/daily-live/current$
<pitti> it fell off today?
<cjwatson> it wasn't there when you asked yesterday
<cjwatson> I checked and responded on #ubuntu-devel
<cjwatson> there was a .1 build yesterday, so it might have fallen off in that
<pitti> ok, then I need to re-check, as today's images are still 730 MB
<cjwatson> i386 is 736MB[Di though
<cjwatson> MiB
<cjwatson> indeed
<skaet> any other questions for pitti?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
<skaet> hmm... not seeing either in the channel.
<skaet> ok,  moving on.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<skaet> ok, we'll see if we can catchup with ScottK later
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage
<MootBot> New Topic:  Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage
<skaet> hmm... will move on then here too...
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<MootBot> New Topic:  Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Desktop images were available starting yesterday
<charlie-tca> We need help with two bugs, that are blocking most of the work:
<charlie-tca> * Bug 799754 has a patch attached, but the patch needs work. It won't work for all uses yet.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799754 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please let vendors easily provide their own config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799754
<charlie-tca> * Bug 804734 has been pushed upstream to Xorg.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804734 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Please ship 60xdg_path-on-session like gdm" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804734
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> Thanks charlie-tca! :)
<joshuahoover> o/
<joshuahoover> skaet: sorry, missed the earlier call for u1...let me know when you'd like me to go
<skaet> charlie-tca,  Looks like the second bug has a fix committed,  is more still needed?
<skaet> joshuahoover, ok after Toolchain and MOTU :)  thanks.
<joshuahoover> skaet: cool
<charlie-tca> The fix is committed, now how do we get it finished?
<charlie-tca> From what I read, the fix was pushed upstream, does that mean we have to wait until xorg pushes a new release downstream?
<skaet> charlie-tca, ah,  I understand now.   Thanks.
<cjwatson> either wait or get a relevant Ubuntu developer to cherry-pick
<cjwatson> the former's less work for everyone but only if it's in time
<charlie-tca> So, who do I go find for this?
<cjwatson> it seems most natural to ask Didier, since he pushed it upstream?
<charlie-tca> Thank you. I will do that
<pitti> charlie-tca: you can also ask bryce or RAOF to cherrypick it
<pitti> we sohuld have it for a3
<skaet> :)
<cjwatson> and agreed on Timo's comments on the bug
<charlie-tca> That's what I need, then
<charlie-tca> Agreeing doesn't make anything work, though
<cjwatson> sigh
 * cjwatson leaves then
<charlie-tca> no!
 * charlie-tca needs cjwatson's help, and does appreciate it
<skaet> [TOPIC] Toolchain update - slangasek
<MootBot> New Topic:  Toolchain update - slangasek
<cjwatson> I think it would be helpful if this sort of thing were raised directly with the developers who are active on the bug rather than waiting for a release meeting, honestly?
<charlie-tca> I will go track them down
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<skaet> ..?
<cjwatson> doko sent an update, which we might as well quote for the record, if slangasek isn't around
<slangasek> past week and a bit has seen package updates for binutils, gcc-4.6, gcc-4.5, gcc-4.4, and gcj-4.6
<cjwatson>  - rebuild test not started, too many packages not installable
<cjwatson>    and after the freeze the kde mass upload did start. will
<cjwatson>    do that after the linaro release next week.
<cjwatson>  - ocaml on ARM should be tracked by Emmet.
<cjwatson>  - some ARM related build failures should be addressed by the
<cjwatson>    currently building gcc-4.6.
<cjwatson> aha
<slangasek> python 3.2 is updated to 3.2.1
<slangasek> and openjdk-7 and openjdk-6 have been updated, with build fixes for powerpc and armel
<slangasek> and then what cjwatson said :-)
<skaet> :)
<skaet> thanks slangasek and cjwatson :)
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> Not much to report.
<tumbleweed> Archive consistancy needs work, as ever:
<tumbleweed> FTBFS squashing seems to have stagnated http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/qa-ftbfs/oneiric-historical.html
<tumbleweed> not too sure what else I should be keeping any eye on...
<tumbleweed> ..
<skaet> Thanks tumbleweed!
<skaet> Any impact from the transitions ongoing to worry about?
<tumbleweed> not that I've seen at the moment
<skaet> coolio.    Thanks.
<skaet> any other questions?
<Ursinha> tumbleweed: is the script that generates that data public somewhere? if so, can I have it? :)
<tumbleweed> Ursinha: I'm intending to get that merged into the ubuntuwire qa-ftbfs stuff, you can find it here lp:~stefanor/+junk/qa-ftbfs
<Ursinha> tumbleweed: cool
<Ursinha> thanks!
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/OneiricReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/OneiricReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> we have a new release of libubuntuone (music store) out today
<joshuahoover> Chipaca has provided more info for the way we'd like to change how u1 gets updated in the future and that conversation is on-going
<joshuahoover> once we have agreement on the way forward, we'll be working on making those changes which are for the following blueprint:
<joshuahoover> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-o-updates-for-network-clients
<joshuahoover> we're finishing up work on making the client cross platform friendly so we don't continually break things when making updates for one platform vs. the other...this will allow us to start making regular releases of u1-client as early as next week
<joshuahoover> questions?
<joshuahoover> --
<pitti> o/
<skaet> go pitti
<pitti> joshuahoover: what do you guys plan wrt. support for rhythmbox and banshee?
 * NCommander apologizes for being late
<pitti> in particular, the GTK3/PyGI migration for rhythmbox?
<pitti> should rb be continued to support for the music store, or should we remove the binary package?
<pitti> (current rb Breaks: it, as it causes crashes due to the missing transition)
<joshuahoover> pitti: good question...i need to check on that
<pitti> joshuahoover: thanks; would be good to know for general planning
<skaet> Thanks joshuahoover!  any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Any other business,  comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business,  comments/questions?
<skaet> Just wanted to let folks know that mootbot hasn't been working since july 1.   I'll be posting a link to the transcript from the irclogs to the agenda.
<skaet> anything else?
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:13.
<jibel> Thanks skaet
<skaet> Thanks jibel, mlegris, ara, jdstrand, ogasawara, cjwatson, Daviey, ogra_, rsalveti, joshuahoover, charlie-tca,  slangasek, pitti
<slangasek> thanks, skaet
<pitti> thanks everyone, have a nice weekend!
<rsalveti> skaet: thanks!
<jibel> have a nice week end everyone!
<ogra_> thanks skaet
<Daviey> o/
<skaet> thanks tumbleweed.  :)
<tumbleweed> heh, np
<tumbleweed> skaet: would it be reasonable to ping us all at the start of the meeting? (it would help with me forgetting, for a start)
<skaet> tumbleweed,  I do like that chart btw.  :)  looking forward to it be integrated.
<skaet> sure I can do a general ping,  assuming folk are on the channel.
<charlie-tca> Thanks, skaet
<charlie-tca> Thanks, cjwatson, for your advice
<skaet> tumbleweed, by general,  I mean I'll just say hi to all the leads so it shows up on the radar.  :)
<rsalveti> tumbleweed: only thing I'd change is to be able to show the chart just for a specific arch
<rsalveti> as at linaro we do the porting jam for arm
<skaet> jibel, pitti,  have a nice weekend. :)
<rsalveti> fixing arm-only ftbfs
<tumbleweed> rsalveti: yeah, at the moment it's a per-arch table with selectable packagesets, but that's probably not as useful as it could be
<tumbleweed> s/table/graph/
<rsalveti> tumbleweed: but cool anyway
<tumbleweed> I've got every failed build in a sqlite db, so I can mine it as I want (I knew I wouldn't produce the best graphs on the first attempt :P )
<rsalveti> in the future also some charts per tags would be useful
<rsalveti> like 'ice', 'opengles', etc
<rsalveti> but anyway, time to experiment with some hackings :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-16
<ScottK> skaet: Sorry I missed the meeting.  Kubuntu update (at a high level) is KDE 4.7 finally done.
 * Kreative` is away: Away
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-09
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> o/
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jjohansen> \o
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  9 18:03:35 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> though, I am off Mon-Thu next week (last bit of summer vacation)
<jdstrand> so I wonder if sbeattie and I should switch triage duties this week
<jdstrand> we can discuss outside of the meeting
<jdstrand> last week I was able to get the new apparmor and ufw uploaded, both completed work items surrounding py3
<jdstrand> for this week I plan to focus on updates
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I am on community this week
<mdeslaur> and am working on an embargoed
<mdeslaur> issue
<mdeslaur> and after that, I'll pick something from the list
<mdeslaur> I am also working on some work items, so I may do that too
<mdeslaur> that,s it from me. sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I am on triage this week (though I guess that's up for discussion)
<sbeattie> I'm hoping to get the openjdk-6 backport released this week, still pending euca feedback mostly
<sbeattie> I have an embargoed issue and kees' X update on my plate.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: who is performing the euca testing?
<jdstrand> or rather supposed to be
<jdstrand> upstream?
<sbeattie> iamfuzz from euca hopefully, but we've gotte radio silence.
<sbeattie> (so yeah, upstream)
<jdstrand> hrm-- we may want to ask higher up. let's talk after the meeting
<sbeattie> other testing has looked good so far.
<sbeattie> jdstrand: okay
<sbeattie> that's it from me
<sbeattie> micahg: you're up
<micahg> just finishing up testing for the openjdk backport (browser plugin) and webkit stuff, along with any training on tyhicks to get source packages for the Mozilla updates next week
<micahg> <PSA>and Thunderbrid is not dead</PSA>
<micahg> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm currently publishing the pidgin update (with the MXit vulnerability from late last week fixed)
<tyhicks> I've got a few eCryptfs (userspace and kernel) contributions that I need to review today
<tyhicks> Still trying to get to my merges
<tyhicks> and I'll likely grab another update
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up
<jjohansen> I will be working on kicking out the next iteration of the interface patch and hopefully getting it some upstream time this week so that it can go into 3.6, /me will also be kicking out about 20 other kernel side cleanups that he would like to see go into 3.6
<jjohansen> After that I will get back to getting to trying to finish up the stacking beta
<jjohansen> Next week I will be sprinting with the kernel team a few days.
<jdstrand> jjohansen: re sprint> is that for reactive work?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yeah, I am going to sync up with apw and brad etc, see if we can't improved the deferred cve bits, maybe work on the workflow
<jjohansen> it won't be the full week just a couple of days
<jdstrand> jjohansen: nice. is that a virtual sprint or are people travelling?
<jjohansen> people are traveling, its in portland :)
<jdstrand> \o/
<jdstrand> :)
<sbeattie> jjohansen: if there's anything face-to-face to discuss, I can probably make it in for a day or two.
<jjohansen> sbeattie: cool, we can discuss off line
<jjohansen> thats it from /me back to jdstrand
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/heimdal.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/texmacs.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/citadel.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tucan.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/krb5-appl.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<micahg> o/
<micahg> forgot to mention that I have a short week, off Wed
<micahg> ..
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  9 18:23:52 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-09-18.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-09-18.03.html
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<tyhicks> thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<pitti> cjwatson, mdz, kees, soren, stgraber: meeting o'clock?
<mdz> pitti, calendar says +1 hour
<stgraber> wiki says 21:00 UTC
<pitti> eek? I thought we moved it one hour during DST
<pitti> uff
<pitti> I scanned the ML, and I don't see much pending stuff; most in the past two months were MREs which were resolved by mail already
<pitti> there's the Mythbuntu LTS plan, but it was also ack'ed by mail
<pitti> ok, I think I'll go to bed then
<kees> \o
<mdz> o/
 * stgraber waves
<kees> cjwatson, soren: ready for TB meeting? (IIUC pitti is asleep)
<soren> o/
<kees> well, we're half here :)
<kees> ah! >half yay
<kees> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  9 21:01:04 2012 UTC.  The chair is kees. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<kees> [topic] Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action review
<kees> done: kees to document provisional MRE for nova, and practice for insufficient-information cases in general
<kees> done: kees to follow up to LibreOffice MRE discussion in light of today's debate
<kees> soren to start on brainstorm review
<kees> where's that stand?
<soren> Well, I've started :)
<kees> DONE! :)
<kees> so...
<soren> I'm having trouble working out who to bug about the individual ideas, but I'll get there evnetually.
<kees> [action] soren to continue brainstorm review
<meetingology> ACTION: soren to continue brainstorm review
<kees> worst-case, I think just a massive email to ubuntu-devel seems reasonable
<soren> I not spent anywhere near anough time on it to be that desparate yet :)
<kees> hehe
<kees> okay, well then we'll move on.
<soren> Ongoing. I'm hopeful.
<kees> [topic] agenda items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: agenda items
<kees> we don't have anything on the wiki. anything new right now?
<soren> pass
<stgraber> nothing here
<kees> [topic] Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<kees> mythbuntu LTS is half-voted on.
<kees> we're at 3 +1s so far.
<soren> I'll follow up right now.
<kees> soren: with a +1, or more discussion?
<kees> if discussion, perhaps we can resolve it now?
<soren> +1.
<kees> okay, then that's approved as well. mdz, do you have an opinion on the mythbuntu LTS?
<mdz> kees, I have to abstain, sorry
<mdz> I haven't read and processed it
<kees> okay, that's fine.
<kees> [topic] Check up on community bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Check up on community bugs
<kees> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/174375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 174375 in Launchpad itself "Distribution drivers permissions may need redesign" [Low,Triaged]
<kees> it's not clear to me what is "next" for this bug. it has been around for so long. :)
<kees> I'll just ask directly on the bug and move on...
<kees> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/252368
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 252368 in Launchpad itself "Automatically associate DD and DM accounts with GPG keys in keyring packages to allow DDs to use the Launchpad Email interface" [Low,Triaged]
<kees> this looks like it isn't new, has been assigned, and we don't need the TB task any more. thoughts?
<kees> mdz: you assigned the TB. what did we need to do for this?
<mdz> kees, looking
<mdz> oh, I added a task there for tracking
<mdz> I don't think the TB can fix this directly
<kees> should we have something besides "new" for "things we're watching"?
<mdz> but someone should ask the Launchpad team about it
<mdz> it should be Triaged I think
<mdz> but I don't think I was allowed to change it
<mdz> it was a year ago, I don't remember
<kees> hrm, I can only set "in progress".
<kees> I can do confirmed too. how about "confirmed" which is what the other bug is at.
<kees> bdmurray: do you happen to remember who the ubuntu advocate for LP dev work? it would be nice to get LP: #252368 on their radar.
<kees> [action] kees to ping LP advocate about LP: #252368
<meetingology> ACTION: kees to ping LP advocate about LP: #252368
<kees> [topic] select a chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: select a chair
<kees> mdz: I think you're next. does that work for you?
<mdz> kees, sure
<mdz> thanks
<kees> okay, cool. we're all done here. thanks everyone!
<kees> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  9 21:20:18 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-09-21.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-09-21.01.html
<stgraber> kees: thanks for chairing
<bdmurray> kees: bryce is one and kate is another
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-10
<pitti> kees: thanks for driving
<Daviey> o/
<jamespage> o/
<jimbaker> hi
<Daviey> Mr Page!
 * jamespage looks at his watch
<smoser> o/
<arosales> hello
<adam_g> o/
<zul> hilo
 * Daviey notes that jimbaker isn't on the schedule 
 * rbasak should probably be on the schedule too
<jamespage> he is now
<arosales> and m_3 :-)
<jamespage> and so is m_3 and rbasak
 * Daviey taps his watch.
<jamespage> okay-dokay
<jamespage> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 10 16:02:26 2012 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> none
<jamespage> \o/
<jamespage> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Quantal Development
<jamespage> #topic Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> It's mostly MIR bugs which are causing woe
<jamespage> So we have quite a few MIR's to support cep work
<jamespage> bug 1017972 1017978 1022493
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017972 in libunwind (Ubuntu) "[MIR] google-perftools, libunwind" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017972
<Daviey> jamespage: perhaps someone should try to interface closer with the MIR team to get these progressing ?
<jamespage> Daviey, as they are all mine I will do that
<Daviey> jamespage: super!
<jamespage> and then
<jamespage> bug 974584
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Quantal) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<Daviey> hallyn: ^
<jamespage> #action jamespage to checkin with MIR team on expected review timescales for server MIR's
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to checkin with MIR team on expected review timescales for server MIR's
<hallyn> Daviey: should be fixed ind ebian
<hallyn> in debian
<zul> there is quantum/quantumclient MIRs as well
<jamespage> zul: please make sure you subscribe ubuntu-server-release
<Daviey> zul: can you action following them up?
<zul> jamespage: ack
<zul> Daviey: i tried to get them moving today but no one from the MIR answered my query
<jamespage> #action zul to make sure relevant MIR bugs have ubuntu-server-release subscribed
<meetingology> ACTION: zul to make sure relevant MIR bugs have ubuntu-server-release subscribed
<Daviey> jamespage: well, technically ubuntu-server-release is for issues we are blocking on.. MIR bugs mostly block on others, no?
<jamespage> Daviey, I don't see much differentiation
<Daviey> jamespage: Well, there is a separate section on the report specifically for tracking MIR's
<Daviey> (without us having to subscribe ubuntu-server*)
<jamespage> Daviey, oh - I see
<jamespage> Daviey, what magic makes things appear their?
<Daviey> jamespage: that is for packages that we are bug subscribers for and has ~ubuntu-mir subscribed to the bug, and not Fix'd
<Daviey> ie, just works.
<jamespage> Daviey, OK - so we just need to sub ~ubuntu-server to those packages then
<jamespage> zul: ^^ got that?
<jamespage> I'll update mine as well
<Daviey> yah.. which is usually a prerequisite for MIR
<zul> jamespage: yeah
<jamespage> Daviey, ack
<jamespage> hallyn: re bug 974584 - can I assign that bug to you or is there someone else more appropriate?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Quantal) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<hallyn> jamespage: assigning me wouldn't help :)  it's fixedin debian, just needs to be merged
<hallyn> i just commented on the bug
<hallyn> (needs to be merged, and i don't have upload rights)
<Daviey> jamespage: hallyn is mostly on plus1 for now.. better someone else
<jamespage> hallyn, ah - rightoh - its actually sysvinit not lxc - my mistake
<jamespage> zul: bug 1020313
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020313 in horizon (Ubuntu) "openstack-dashboard hijacks the web root" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020313
<jamespage> OK to sweep that up in the next set of updates?
<zul> jamespage: is that in precise?
<Daviey> I don't think we can reasonably SRU that
<jamespage> Daviey, I agree
<Daviey> soren: ^^
<Daviey> next?
<jamespage> OK _ while we figure that out
<jamespage> Still have a couple of FTBFS issue we are tracking
<jamespage> I know the genshi one is not moving forward upstream
<jamespage> so we may need to spend some time working a patch ourselves
<jamespage> so if anyone wants to volunteer....
<jamespage> other than that ... moving on
<jamespage> #topic Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<jamespage> bah wrong ling
<jamespage> link
<arosales> trend line is still a bit off
<jamespage> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ubuntu-server.html
<zul> oooh...lets do the time war again
<jamespage> lol
<arosales> Daviey: did you mention we need re-classify topics?
<rbasak> smoser: I've been meaning to suggest that we redo the work items for the apt blueprint once we have feedback
<Daviey> arosales: no
<arosales> or reorder BPs under topics
<arosales> or neither :-)
<smoser> rbasak, that seems reasonable.
<Daviey>  -Action arosales, update the topics/blueprints? :)
<jamespage> Daviey, arosales: please can we understand the context for this change?
 * Daviey hands the mic to arosales.
<arosales> Daviey: I already put the dependencies on the BPs
<arosales> perhaps I classified then under the incorrect topic though
<arosales> I'll take an action to get this straigned out and get the trend line to track our work correctly
<jamespage> #action arosales to sort out blueprints and get the trend line working correctly
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales to sort out blueprints and get the trend line working correctly
<jamespage> ta
<Daviey> lets have a @daily reset-trend-line.py cronjob
<jamespage> I'm not going to focus on any specific blueprints; but I would recommend everyone review ~weekly
<jamespage> I've also been using the +upcomingwork view in Launchpad
<jamespage> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+upcomingwork
<jamespage> for example
<jamespage> which gives you more of a time based view of whats next....
<jamespage> anyone have anything else for blueprint status?
<jamespage> .....
<jamespage> ....
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> ..
<jamespage> .
<jamespage> nope
<jamespage> OK
<Daviey> hometime \o/
<jamespage> #topic 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
<smoser> i believe i was probably supposed to have done something here. i think i said i'd look at our list of items. but I have not.
 * ScottK uploaded postfix 2.9.3 for a MRE SRU yesterday.  Waiting for someone else in ubuntu-sru to accept it.
<jamespage> We have managed to push few quite a few SRU's
<jamespage> thanks ScottK
<jamespage> *push through
<jamespage> smoser - lets do that tomorrow
<jamespage> #action smoser and jamespage to review and assign SRU bug across team.
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser and jamespage to review and assign SRU bug across team.
<smoser> jamespage, ok.
<smoser> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html is the/one list, and as you can see, server has a nice long list of bugs
<smoser> wee!
<jamespage> smoser: most of those bugs are also on
<jamespage> http://people.canonical.com/~jamespage/server-sru/precise-sru.html
<jamespage> maas and juju specifically have a large number of unassigned high priority items
<jamespage> anyway - looks like folk will have bugs coming their way tomorrow onwards....
<zul> bugs are overated
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> any events in the next two weeks we should be aware of?
<arosales> OSCON coming up on the 16th
<arosales> m_3 and jcastro attending
<jimbaker> i will also be at oscon
<jamespage> a veritable server-team fest!
<jamespage> OK
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jamespage> hggdh, around for an update?
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<jamespage> smb?
<smb> yup
<smb> So I have been chasing some quantal regression of an older (b44) nic, trying to get kexec/kdump working in precise/quantal, chasing some 32bit Xen HVM problem and err, that might be all. Something else I should be aware (iow questions)? Oh, and /me being in Portland, OR next week.
<smb> ..
<jamespage> any questions for smb?
<jamespage> nope - next!
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> I've been working on a hacky patch against MAAS trunk that will make it provision ARM machines. The idea is that this can eventually be adapted into first class support. The patch is currently up-to-date against MAAS trunk, and I'm just waiting on the last cobbler-replacement pieces to land.
<rbasak> Nothing else to report.
<rbasak> Any questions for me?
<jamespage> rbasak, I have a question - would it be possible to get the openvswitch kernel module enabled for the ARM kernels?
<jamespage> I believe its upstream for the 3.4 series we are currently using
<rbasak> That's something I'll have to ask of the kernel team
<jamespage> rbasak, that would be helpful (only hit this today)
<rbasak> In quantal? Or do you need a precise SRU?
<jamespage> #action rbasak to find out whether openvswitch module can be enabled for quantal ARM kernels
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to find out whether openvswitch module can be enabled for quantal ARM kernels
<jamespage> rbasak, quantal is OK
<rbasak> This is for the openstack module I presume? I forget its name
<jamespage> quantum
<rbasak> Yeah that's it
<rbasak> OK I'll find out
<jamespage> plus openvswitch is way cooler than doing old style bridging... :-)
<rbasak> apw: ^^? :)
<jamespage> any other questions for rbasak?
<rbasak> jamespage: which kernels in particular?
<rbasak> jamespage: omap4, armadaxp, highbank, all of the above? :)
<Daviey> rbasak: whilst i remember, shall we have a quick catchup tomorrow morning?
<jamespage> rbasak, all of the above
<rbasak> :)
<rbasak> Daviey: sure
<jamespage> OK
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<jamespage> anyone have anything for open discussion?
<Daviey> nope
<jamespage> right-oh
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<zul> jamespage: we should be able to test if the dkms modules build
<jamespage> zul: it does not
<zul> oh...poop
<jamespage> July 17th 2012, 1600 UTC right here
<jamespage> until then...
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 10 16:34:00 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-10-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-10-16.02.html
<arosales> Thanks for chairing jamespage
<apw> rbasak, it seems to be enabled for everything but ti-omap4, and we'll be reviewing that next week
<rbasak> Thanks apw. May I leave that with you?
<rbasak> jamespage: ^^
<jamespage> rbasak, action completed - ta
<Daviey> thanks jamespage
<jamespage> np
<m_3> win 23
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 10 17:00:13 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<herton> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> _o_
<cking> o/
<smb> \o
<Daviey> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: rebased on 3.4.4 (Ubuntu-3.4.0-204.9).
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-quantal-alpha-3.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 3 work items  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || cking       || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 1 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || cooloney    || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || jjohansen   || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati     || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || tgardner    || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 2 work items  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 1 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || kernel-team || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Alpha-3 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have recently rebased the Quantal kernel to the latest v3.5-rc6
<ogasawara> upstream kernel and have uploaded.  This has also been uploaded to the
<ogasawara> q-lts-backport [1] PPA to help facilitate testing of the 12.10 kernel
<ogasawara> in 12.04.  We welcome any early adopters to please install, test, and
<ogasawara> let us know your feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs July 26 - Alpha 3 (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (bjf)
<bjf> == 2012-07-10 (weekly) ==
<bjf> Currently we have 93 CVEs on our radar, with 1 CVE retired this week.
<bjf> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<bjf> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (July 10):
<henrix>  * Hardy â 2.6.24-32.103 â Verified, ready for testing; 1 CVE (4 commits)
<henrix>  * Lucid â 2.6.32-41.94 â In verification (2 commits) (2 commits)
<henrix>  * Natty â 2.6.38-15.64 â In verification (2 commits) (2 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric â 3.0.0-23.38 â In verification; 3 upstream stable release (approx. 94 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise â 3.2.0-27.43 â In verification; 2 upstream stable release (approx. 183 commits)
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix> The week of Sept. 6 is the week the last Natty kernel will be built.
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jjohansen> gah why is it that pulse audio doesn't play all my beeps?
<jjohansen> sorry wrong channel
<jsalisbury> Should we cancel next weeks meeting due to the sprint?
<jsalisbury> ..
<ogasawara> jsalisbury: yes
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> ok
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> Also, I will be on vacation for the July 24th meeting.  Is there someone else that can chair?
<jsalisbury> ..
<ogasawara> jsalisbury: I can chair
<jsalisbury> ogasawara, great, thanks!
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> Any other open discussions?
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 10 17:06:02 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-10-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-10-17.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-11
<IdleOne> AlanBell: would it be possible to get meetingology to join #ubuntu-ca. There is interest in testing it and perhaps use it on a permanent basis.
<Destine> hi
<x1k> Good morning
<head_victim> Evening all
<x1k> hello
<hggdh> good morning
<inashdeen> Hi
<inashdeen> the meeting is about time, right ? just want to make sure that i did not go to the wrong place
<head_victim> inashdeen: indeed, we're about to start I believe
<x1k> I hope so, kinda took some vacation time from work :-)
<sagaci> good luck
<Pendulum> Everyone ready to start?
<x1k> Yes
<hggdh> yes
<Pendulum> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 11 12:04:56 2012 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Pendulum> #voters head_victim Pendulum Destine hggdh micahg
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum head_victim hggdh micahg
<Pendulum> Welcome to the 12:00 UTC Membership Board Meeting
<Pendulum> We will go through applications in the order they were added to the wiki. When we get to your application, please introduce yourself a little including your wiki and launchpage pages. Good luck everyone!
<Pendulum> Okay, it looks like the first applicant isn't here
<Pendulum> inashdeen: You're up. Please introduce yourself.
<inashdeen> Hi, my name is Muhammad Ihsan Khalib Jaafar or simply ihsan jaafar. this is my wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/inashdeen and here is my launchpad https://launchpad.net/~inashdeen
<inashdeen> I am sorry, but I have a slight anxiety disorder. Is there anything else I should elaborate?
<head_victim> inashdeen: while we read over your application can you tell us a little about your recent works.
<head_victim> I notice a lot of your wiki page is detailing projects outside the Ubuntu sphere so perhaps you can highlight some of the Ubuntu specific contributions
<inashdeen> Just before my examinations, I just finished on my Jawi Keyboard Layout. First of all, Jawi is the keyboard layout for traditional malay. A friend of mine shared on our facebook that there is no Ubuntu alternatives for this. So I built one
<inashdeen> My second prime contribution is on Ubuntu malay translation. I am now the deputy head for translation. So far, we manage to finish 10,000 translation in 30 days
<inashdeen> My latest, which is not detailed in the wiki in my involvement on a survey soon will be done to see how Malaysian accepting Ubuntu so far
<head_victim> It looks like you recently moved from Malaysia to Egypt, have you been able to connect to the Egypt team?
<inashdeen> Yes, I do. I made friends like Mr. Toulan ( he notes a comment on my recommendations). I even when for their release party. But due to language barrier, I prefer working with Ubuntu-my
<Pendulum> inashdeen: we've noticed that much of your translations work has been in the past couple months. What were you doing with Ubuntu before that?
<head_victim> inashdeen: so one of the requirements of membership is to show significant and sustained contirbutions, a lot of your contributions seem to be fairly recent. Do you have much going back 3 - 6 months ago
<inashdeen> I wrote several e-books and tutorial regarding Ubuntu, for a while. I will give those.
<inashdeen> this is a tutorial I did to use lowratevoip on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com.my/Tutorial_Menggunakan_lowratevoip_dalam_Ubuntu . Most malaysians in egypt called to malaysia. Hence, This knowledge is important for us if new Malaysian users would like to use lowratevoip on ubuntu
<inashdeen> this is another e-book i wrote on how to modify ubuntu to have more effects http://wiki.ubuntu.com.my/Tutorial_Menggunakan_lowratevoip_dalam_Ubuntu
<inashdeen> sorry
<inashdeen> I am sorry,but apparently the book was removed from mediafire.
<head_victim> inashdeen: sorry, we're not ignoring you just having some discussions behind doors.
<inashdeen> here is another tutorial I wrote about why Ubuntu is better than Mint, http://wiki.ubuntu.com.my/Pro_dan_cons_Mint_berbanding_Ubuntu
<inashdeen> My involvement in Remaja Linux ( or Malaysian Linux Teen ) is now roughly a year. And most of our discussion, revolves around Ubuntu.
<head_victim> inashdeen: just to give you some feedback, we're thinking you're doing some great work currently but looking to ensure it's been sustained
<inashdeen> I am :). previously, I am doing mostly on ground. that is before I got mentored.
<inashdeen> I am doing continous contributions, the problem is, it was never documented. That is why most of the things were recent
<Pendulum> inashdeen: is there anyone from an Ubuntu team you've worked with who can poke their head in to say how long they've been working with you?
<inashdeen> Like I built Lexa Download Manager, Zekr Bug Fixes. That was all around more than a year. and Open book database. My contributions, despite not systematic was continous and I pledge to continue
<inashdeen> can I call somebody?
<hggdh> in
<hggdh> yes
<inashdeen> hotfloppy:
<hotfloppy> inashdeen, ya.
<inashdeen> They just would like to see if you could second on my contribtuons on Malaysia Loco Team
<Pendulum> hotfloppy: inashdeen is going for Ubuntu membership. Can you tell us a little about how you've worked with him and for how long?
<hotfloppy> Pendulum, yes sure.
<hotfloppy> inashdeen is one of our (Ubuntu-MY) main contributor mostly in translator team, helping others with their issue regarding Ubuntu as Ubuntu just recently got popular here in Malaysia.
<head_victim> hotfloppy: do you have any examples of his work on ubuntu going back more than a month? His launchpad karma shows activity only for the last month and not much prior to that
<mfauzirahman> I know inashdeen from https://www.facebook.com/groups/ubuntumy/
<mfauzirahman> he did create some docs for reference for our ubuntu member...https://www.facebook.com/groups/ubuntumy/files/ (Ihsan Salam is his fabcebook name)
<hotfloppy> head_victim, yeah. Hold on k
<inashdeen> head_victim : how bout Linux winter campaign? that has been going on for a 10 months
<head_victim> inashdeen: is that Ubuntu related or general Linux work?
<inashdeen> I distributed free Linux CDs ( Ubuntu 11.10 and 12.04)
<inashdeen> and sometimes, Ubuntu derivatives like Sabily since Sabily is ubuntu for muslim and my focus in on Religious studies student
<hotfloppy> inashdeen, don't forget your beautiful Intel-like Ubuntu sticker during those campaign :)
<inashdeen> thank you :)
<Pendulum> Okay, I think we're ready to vote.
<Pendulum> #voters cyphermox head_victim hggdh Destine micahg Pendulum
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum cyphermox head_victim hggdh micahg
<Pendulum> #vote Please vote on inashdeen for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on inashdeen for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<head_victim> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from head_victim
<mfauzirahman> +1
<hggdh> +0 -- strong recent work for Ubuntu, but lacks demostrable sustained work. Please add more *sustained* examples of UBuntu work (older work) to the wiki
<meetingology> +0 -- strong recent work for Ubuntu, but lacks demostrable sustained work. Please add more *sustained* examples of UBuntu work (older work) to the wiki received from hggdh
<micahg> +0 same as hggdh
<meetingology> +0 same as hggdh received from micahg
<cyphermox> +0 -- agreeing with others; the contributions are awesome but I would like to see them span on a longer period of time.
<meetingology> +0 -- agreeing with others; the contributions are awesome but I would like to see them span on a longer period of time. received from cyphermox
<head_victim> I think you are doing some awesome work but I can't see that it's been sustained as per the requirements. If you were to come back in 2 -3 months time with documentation of your continued efforts I would be more than happy to +1 then I think
<Pendulum> +0 I really like your recent contributions, but we'd like to see some more time.
<meetingology> +0 I really like your recent contributions, but we'd like to see some more time. received from Pendulum
<hggdh> indeed, I would certainly give you a +1
<Pendulum> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on inashdeen for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:5
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<inashdeen> ok, thank you very much for the time :) Would try harder next time.
<head_victim> inashdeen: I think you're trying hard now so don't be too disheartened. As long as it's continued for a while you'll be a shoe in
<hggdh> inashdeen: please add examples of older work on your wiki
<head_victim> It's just hard for us when the documentation only really shows activity for a month.
<Pendulum> inashdeen: We really spent quite a bit of time discussing this. All we really need to see is more documentation showing sustained contribution to Ubuntu projects (not just general Linux projects)
<Pendulum> So do please come back in a few months!
<inashdeen> ok, I accept it with open heart
<Pendulum> okay, next up
<Pendulum> x1k: Please introduce yourself
<x1k> LaunchPad: https://launchpad.net/~l.caputo
<x1k> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LCaputo
<x1k> Good morning board members, my name is Luke Caputo. I turn 26 next week and have been an Ubuntu and Open Source enthusiast since 2005. My contributions to Ubuntu have been almost entirely to the community projects, as I am not a confident developer quite yet. However, I am involved in testing new proposed releases. I am incredibly interested in Ubuntu development, so I will be pushing hard in that direction soon. I also plan to
<head_victim> inashdeen: and if you're not sure how you're going please feel free to drop us a line and we can give you feedback
<head_victim> x1k: Never fear, community work is important as well. I am never likely to be a Ubuntu developer but still find ways to contribute
<ejat> sorry ..
<x1k> I am currently working on converting and recruiting some members to strengthen the PA LoCo team in my area. Due to the nature of my job, I often jump around states often, but since I am in PA for a good long time (hopefully), I would like to see more support and members in my area.
<head_victim> x1k: your wiki page says a lot about what you've planned to do or what you hope to do, do you have any documentation about what you have done to date?
<x1k> A local Penn State affiliate apparently has a good IT program, so I am currently petitioning students to jump on the bandwagon
<x1k> head_victim: The vast majority of my work is in IRC. Though, I sometimes work with the Bug Squad andsome other groups on Launchpad.. It's not my strong skills by any means though.
<head_victim> x1k: and is there anyone who is able to vouch for these contributions?
<x1k> I created my Launchpad in 2008, and there is some history within my karma.
<x1k> Unfortunately, no. I have asked people that I have helped in IRC to add a 'thank you' or testimony to my Wiki, but that hasn't quite received the response that I was hoping for.
<Pendulum> x1k: Is there anyone who has seen your work on IRC who you could invite in here now to support you?
<hggdh> x1k: which channels in IRC are you mostly active?
<x1k> I can send out some feelers to see!
<Pendulum> x1k: Why do you want to be an Ubuntu Member?
<head_victim> x1k: which channels do you do your best work in?
<ejat> x1k: are u actively join the Pennsylvania loco activity ?
<x1k> #ubuntu is my primary channel of support, although recently I have diverted some of my efforts to AskUbuntu since I believe that it is a more new-user-friendly method of obtaining support
<x1k> Not to take for IRC AT ALL, but a lot of brand new users have never heard of IRC.
<x1k> I have been a member of PA LoCo since 2008, when I started my Launchpad account.
<x1k> Pendulum: Ubuntu Membership is important to me because I want to continue to support an AWESOME community.
<x1k> As I slowly start to get into development, I hope that my contributions will be much larger in the sense of contribution to the project.
<Pendulum> x1k: I know you've been in the LP team for 4 years, but have you actually worked with them on anything? Or gone to any events?
<Pendulum> sorry, that was regarding the PA LoCo
<x1k> Once again, not taking from the validity of contribution to IRC, AT ALL.
<Myrtti> x1k: what nickname have you been using in #ubuntu mostly?
<x1k> I live in rural PA, many hours away from anything worth going to.. And while I lived out of state, my participation has been limited.
<x1k> Which is why a local LoCo within PA LoCo is something that I am pushing hard for. We have a lot of potential in the area, but everything Ubuntu, Linux, and Open Source is 5+ hours away.
<x1k> Myrtti: Oh the nick issue... I am a man of many names :-)
<Myrtti> x1k: it's a bit difficult to verify your contributions in #ubuntu if you use many nicknames :-/
<x1k> x1k, xlukasx, lukas, x1karr0usx, xikarrousx, ikarrous.. after that, I have no idea what handles I have used, unfortunately
<hggdh> I am all for anonimity, but I am also for consistency. I cannot verify your work
<head_victim> x1k: the problem we're having is proving significant and sustained contributions when there are no testimonials and no real significant history on launchpad.
<Myrtti> or on IRC logs
<x1k> If someone had an issue, it was dealt with through '/msg'.. up until recently when I tried searching through IRC logs on old nicks and realized that support via '/msg' is bad practice
<x1k> If that is your consensus, then I will rejoin the board at a later date, hopefully with someone to back me up.
<head_victim> x1k: ah then of course we're not going to be able to find it. What I'd suggest then is to make sure you do all your contributions in the public from now on and show a sustained contribution that way and return when there is a bit of history.
<x1k> However, I have been contributing a ton of my free time to Ubuntu user support for the the past 5-6 years.
<Pendulum> #vote x1k's application for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: x1k's application for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<mfauzirahman> -1
<hggdh> -1 no verifiable sustained contributions for Ubuntu
<meetingology> -1 no verifiable sustained contributions for Ubuntu received from hggdh
<head_victim> -1 for now, if you can return in 3 months with some verified contributions I'd be more than happy to change that
<meetingology> -1 for now, if you can return in 3 months with some verified contributions I'd be more than happy to change that received from head_victim
<head_victim> mfauzirahman: only board members can vote sorry.
<Pendulum> -1 Please come back in a few months when you can show some varifiable sustained contribution.
<meetingology> -1 Please come back in a few months when you can show some varifiable sustained contribution. received from Pendulum
<x1k> Thank you for using the keyword "verifiable", as to not take from my contributions
<mfauzirahman> sorry
<head_victim> x1k: if you help out in #ubuntu I'm sure you'll get to know the regulars and when you apply next time ask them to give you a testimonial.
<cyphermox> +0, abstaining; but agreeing with others
<meetingology> +0, abstaining; but agreeing with others received from cyphermox
<x1k> And my karma history does not give me any credit as having contributed since 2008?
<Pendulum> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: x1k's application for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:3 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion denied
<head_victim> x1k: as board members we work closely with all groups so we are able to rely on testimonials
<cyphermox> x1k: well actually, karma does expire, but there is other ways to get history
<head_victim> So if you were to get testimonials from other #ubuntu regulars we'd be able to verify the support :)
<hggdh> x1k: no, unfortunately. I also searched for bugs from you,m and got 8 bugs back
<x1k> cyphermox: right, but the history of contributions are still visable.
<cyphermox> x1k: yes :)
<Pendulum> x1k: but they're not the contributions you're using to get membership.
<Pendulum> anyway, that is it for this meeting.
<Pendulum> #endmeeting
<x1k> Pendulum: Are you not looking at 'all' contributions to the project? Just making sure that I am coming back at this correctly..
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 11 13:05:27 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-11-12.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-11-12.04.html
<head_victim> x1k: when you think you're ready for another go please feel free to ask for feedback prior and we can try to help you with your application if you like
<hggdh> x1k: all contributions are used
<x1k> Thank you all
<cyphermox> x1k: I guess it was bad wording, yes, we look at all contributions
<inashdeen> thank you all for the time. I hope I could perfom better next time. if there is anything i need to know about, do email me at inashdeen@gmail.com sorry for the time and thanks
<hggdh> x1k: but we have to be able to verify them; testimonials from active people also help a lot
<Pendulum> yeah, it's just launchpad doesn't show substantial contributions
<head_victim> inashdeen: just keep up what you're doing and you'll be fine I believe
<Pendulum> x1k: also, use your loco. I know there are people in it who can help you with a stronger application. It sounds like you've been doing good work, we just can't varify it.
<cyphermox> x1k: what Pendulum meant I guess is that your launchpad page doesn't have a whole lot of things, and not over a long enough period to be considered "sustained" contributions, and unfortunately we can't verify your IRC contributions because you have no testimonials and nobody we asked could vouch for you
<x1k> Understandable. I am not arguing, just ensuring that I am set up for the next go around :-)
<cyphermox> x1k: I'd very much like to be able to +1 you in a couple of months when we you can get testimonials or a bit more stuff to show :)
<Pendulum> cyphermox: +1
<IdleOne> o/
<x1k> Okay, back to work. Thanks again everyone.
 * balloons waves
<balloons> I guess I'm crazy -- I can't seem to start the meeting.. none of my messages are showing up :-(
<phillw> balloons: do you want me to try?
<balloons> phillw, sure
<phillw> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 11 14:13:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<phillw> #chair balloons
<meetingology> Current chairs: balloons phillw
<balloons> I hit that so many times.. nothing showed..
<balloons> zzzzzzz
<balloons> anyways, who's all here?
<balloons> heh, let's go look at the topics we have
<phillw> hmm, looks like a short meeting!
<balloons> yes, which is just as well
<balloons> [Topic] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Updates
<balloons> hey! it worked
<balloons> so updates for ubuntu.. well, the desktop stuff is starting to land. We've had the kernel call for testing going on, and added the twist of trying to ensure we have a range of hardware being tested
<balloons> unity is on the radar to start going through some testing iterations I hope, and i suspect we'll also start to see more special testing runs as features start to land
<balloons> alpha 3 should be a few things, and the period between it and beta will be busy!
<balloons> Also, I'm started looking at the ARM testcases and will be asking around for folks interested in ARM soon
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Flavor Updates
<balloons> phillw, since your here.. take the lead
<phillw> in terms of things landing, we're similar to ubuntu. The applications we're going to ship are now getting added
<phillw> bug 1018533 has been resolved
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018533 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Cannot manually change partitions" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018533
<phillw> however bug 1007394 really needs a bit of love, as it completely blocks the ppc alternate.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1007394 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "Quantal daily fails to complete installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007394
<phillw> I'm, not sure as to if to raise its importance to critical as it stops the installation deaed?
<balloons> ohh, inreresting
<phillw> *dead*
<balloons> yes, for the ppc image it's dead right/
<balloons> btw, how's the no firefox ppc build bug coming along?
<phillw> julien is still working on it, and has included another browser for the time being (the name of which escapes me!).
<balloons> gotcha
<phillw> Midori
<balloons> yes, pretty neat little browser
<phillw> that's all to report from lubuntu.
<balloons> alright, let's see if any other flavors are here and wish to speak up?
<balloons> kubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntu studio, edubuntu, mythbuntu?
<balloons> If not, we'll move on
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other topics
<balloons> Ok, lastly does anyone have anything else they wish to add to the agenda?
<balloons> ok, so I'll just finish my final pieces
<balloons> I wanted to highlight again that we're doing daily iso tests this week as part of our 2 week cadence for testing the dailies
<balloons> phillw, I'll bring up that bug btw.. thanks for bringing it to my attn
<balloons> If your doing any installs or messing around with the daily cd's this week, please file reports of success of failure against the dailies.
<balloons> I think that's all folks!
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 11 14:39:51 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-11-14.13.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-11-14.13.html
<cjwatson> All right, let's see, who do we have today
<bdmurray> o/
<ev> hi
<stokachu> o/
 * ogra_ slurps his fresh coffee
<cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e barry bdmurray cjwatson ev ogra stgraber stokachu xnox)
<cjwatson> cjwatson stokachu ev bdmurray barry ogra xnox stgraber
<cjwatson> Oops, except for xnox
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 11 15:04:42 2012 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjwatson> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<cjwatson> Launchpad and archive admin tools:
<cjwatson>  * API queue client will be feature-complete once the current state of devel is QAed and deployed.
<cjwatson>  * Went through all archive admin tools based on the old queue script and either migrated them to the API (new-binary-debian-universe, kernel-overrides) or dropped them (new-remove-duplicates).
<cjwatson>  * Fixed privacy bug in PackageUpload API.
<cjwatson>  * Tweaked auto-sync to take advantage of new PackageUpload API work.
<cjwatson>  * Landed work to automatically copy package description translations between pockets (awaiting deployment).
<cjwatson> Installer:
<cjwatson>  * Worked with xnox to track down and fix bug 1020574.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020574 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "SystemError: Broken pipe while installing language packs" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020574
<cjwatson>  * Removed reliance on an old X server argument for Plymouth transitioning (bug 1019377).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1019377 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity-dm crashed with XStartupError in run(): X server exited with return code 1" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019377
<cjwatson>  * Worked on tracking down bug 1023036.  No real luck as yet.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023036 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Error on /usr/share/ubiquity/plugininstall.py", line 1687, affecting desktop images (preseeded install)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023036
<cjwatson> Other:
<cjwatson>  * Cleaned up various bugs (mostly related to the switch to Python 3 or to recent package splits) in software-properties, update-manager, and ubuntu-release-upgrader.
<cjwatson>  * Some progress on converting the server image to use a squashfs for the base system.
<cjwatson>  * Fixed up compiler warnings in jbigkit, allowing it to be moved to main (bug 993304) and hence allowing syncs of tiff and tiff3.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 993304 in jbigkit (Ubuntu) "[MIR] jbigkit" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993304
<cjwatson> ..
<stokachu> bug #977947 - needs sponsor
<cjwatson> Also 1023036 is currently impeded by the dh_python3 regression being discussed on -devel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977947 in libbonobo (Ubuntu Quantal) "Please transition libbonobo to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977947
<stokachu> bug #977952 - needs sponsor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977952 in libbonoboui (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonoboui to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977952
<stokachu> bug #977940 - needs sponsor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977940 in gnome-vfs (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition gnome-vfs to multi-arch" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977940
<stokachu> bug #977959 - in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977959 in libgnome (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libgnome to multi-arch" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977959
<stokachu> bug #932860 - in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932860 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu Precise) "Broken (or missing) multiarch support" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932860
<stokachu> bug #979661 - (precise) verified/fix released
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979661 in update-manager (Ubuntu Quantal) "oneiric to precise: debconf: unable to initialize frontend: Gnome and falls back to Dialog" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979661
<stokachu> bug #890928 - (precise) verified/fix released
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 890928 in libxkbfile (Ubuntu Precise) "When trying to install libxkbfile1:i386 the pkg manager asks to remove too many important packages [Multi-arch]" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/890928
<stokachu> bug #992352 - (precise) verified/fix released
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992352 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu Quantal) "Please update to 18.0.1025.168" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992352
<stokachu> bug #578536 - patched version sent to one of affected users who's been testing it for 3 weeks on systems automounting ~13k mounts with great success. Will know their final testing results tomorrow and will start the process of getting an SRU approved.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 578536 in autofs5 (Ubuntu Natty) "when stopped, automount orphans some mounts" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/578536
<stokachu> - Working +1 this month, started going through universe failed builds.
<stokachu> - Vacation next week.
<cjwatson> Anyone want to volunteer to help out stokachu with sponsorships?
<stokachu> ...
<ev> - Short week; holiday on Tuesday.
<ev> - Lots of work on the debconf GTK+ redesign:
<ev>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#When_there_is_a_Debconf_prompt
<ev>   - Built a new set of tests around the dialogs. There were a lot of things
<ev>     that were already broken that this caught, like the password dialog not
<ev>     handling a default one.
<ev>   - Implemented all of the dialog types. Just need to handle packing the
<ev>     select and multiselect types into a scrolled window when there's more than
<ev>     6 items.
<ev>   - Started documenting how people can contribute to errors.ubuntu.com and
<ev>     dumping my personal todo list into bug reports:
<ev>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/Contributing
<ev>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/Contributing/Debconf
<ev> - Sat down with Matthew to come up for a better design to the compiz/apport
<ev>   application hang dialog. The implementation is mostly there, but I'll need
<ev>   to spend at least a day on the changes he's going to create as a result of
<ev>   our discussion.
<ev> - Continued discussion with Martin over my API for applications handling
<ev>   recoverable errors in apport. We have a fairly straightforward plan that
<ev>   involves passing the data over stdout to a special apport binary,
<ev>   nul-separated. This replaces the existing attempt at a solution which used
<ogra_> .. ?
<stokachu> i think he flooded himself offline
<ogra_> haha
<ev> what, me?
<cjwatson> 16:06 <ev>   nul-separated. This replaces the existing attempt at a solution which used
<cjwatson> (end)
<ev> I HATE IRC
<stokachu> lol
<ev>   nul-separated. This replaces the existing attempt at a solution which used
<ev>   DBus.
<ev> (done)
<bdmurray> development of arsenal and python-launchpadlib-toolkit search filtering for reopened bug tasks and days in status
<bdmurray> SRU verification of apport bug 1002535
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1002535 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "'not a debian format' package install failures should be Unreportable" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1002535
<bdmurray> investigation into and fixing of apport-package bugs not being tagged package-conflict and not having a DuplicateSignature.txt
<bdmurray> apport fix for parsing DpkgTerminalLog in python 3 (bytes vs strings)
<bdmurray> upload apt-clone modification to remove usernames and passwords for apt source files
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader modification to gather apt-clone system state again
<bdmurray> some holidays last week
<bdmurray> â done â
<barry> status for two weeks since last wed was a usa holiday: rather weird couple of weeks because of weather issues, but anyway.  bug 1018579, bug 1016170, bug 1019618, bug 823150, spun python-mode 6.0.10 for debian.  worked a bit on dbus merge sid->quantal but it's tricky so stalled.  i continue to work on port of xapian to python 3 via cython.  mostly going well, but it's make-progress-hit-roadblock-rinse-repeat.
<barry> <git@github.com:warsaw/xapian.git> done.
<barry>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018579 in dovecot (Ubuntu Precise) "dovecot panic" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018579
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016170 in grub (Ubuntu) "No login screen unless "quiet splash" removed from boot line" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016170
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1019618 in python-pyxattr (Ubuntu) "Sync python-pyxattr 0.5.1-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019618
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 823150 in pyxdg (Debian) "Please provide a python3 package" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/823150
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * made mx5 images work again (very hard to do if you cant do testbuilds (the arm livefs builder is constantly occupied))
<ogra_> * many fixes for ac100 images (still not 100% done though)
<ogra_> * started packaging a new nvidia-tegra hardfloat driver (v15 final)
<ogra_> * kernel and image testing for omap3
<ogra_> * was painfully trying to get a 2 graphics cards 3 monitor setup on my new desktop running
<ogra_> * some work on foundations-q-hwpack-integration
<ogra_> * digged up java 12.10 plans for the release team
<barry> cjwatson: re: bug 1016170 could be grub/efi problem?
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * more foundations-q-hwpack-integration
<ogra_> * research QA setup for arm testing more
<ogra_> â
<stgraber> oh, already :)
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Some more apparmor improvements in quantal.
<stgraber>  - Pushed SRU to -proposed bundling most of the fixes from quantal (2 important fixes, 2 common wishlist and 4 minor fixes)
<stgraber>  - Implemented clone() in python API, defined next steps for LXC API with Serge. Fixed some bugs in the python module.
<stgraber> - Installer
<stgraber>  - Merged os-prober
<cjwatson> barry: possibly; I have no bandwidth to investigate at the moment though :-(
<stgraber>  - Debugged a weird IPv6 regression, tracked down to bug 1023174
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023174 in linux (Ubuntu) ""ip -6 addr flush" flushes much more than just the addresses" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023174
<stgraber> - ISO tracker
<stgraber>  - Fixed all minor bugs identified during alpha-2 testing, deployment waiting on IS
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Got IPv6 testing working again on quantal, simplified the code to be pretty self-contained (no longer requires IPv6 connectivity), next step is to send that to QA.
<stgraber>  - bug 1023437
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023437 in ifupdown (Ubuntu) "ifupdown conflicts with netbase both of which own /etc/init.d/networking" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023437
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Finally got around to merging open-iscsi, first time since jaunty... ended up dropping all our delta except for the upstart job, added some glue to handle the upgrades and now finishing to test in d-i.
<stgraber>  - Some ARB app review, the app showdown made the ARB New queue reach 140 packages... Still over 20 or so to review today...
<stgraber>  - Patch pilot on Monday
<stgraber>  - Spent a few minutes dealing with a compiz regression in a copied SRU (uploaded a revert).
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<barry> cjwatson: no worries, it's not fatal.  at least i have a machine to debug with if you need
<stgraber>  - Finish reviewing/triaging ppp and libnl-3 bugs, then start looking at SRUs for the network packages.
<stgraber>  - Go through the pending-sru and help for these that are stuck on verification-needed
<stgraber> (DONE)
<stgraber> stokachu: so that's 977947, 977952 and 977940 that are ready for sponsoring?
<stokachu> stgraber: yea 2 of them are merge proposals i believe
<stokachu> stgraber: ones got a debdiff attached
<stgraber> stokachu: ok. I'll add to my todo, hopefully I can get to it this afternoon
<stokachu> stgraber: cool man
<cjwatson> #topic bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1006860 seems to have a patch in it now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006860 in gdb (Ubuntu) "gdb crashes when loading core files (in is_ctor_or_dtor)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1006860
<cjwatson> anyone have anything we need to be looking at?  as mentioned earlier, my attention's mostly on 1023036 once the python3 bit gets fixed
<stokachu> other than the 2 bugs im in progress on, are there other multiarch that need attention?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: seb128 and tvoss were discussing that earlier on -devel; seb128 was going to grab doko about it when he's next online
<bdmurray> cjwatson: got it thanks
<bdmurray> bug 1022864 just came into the rls-q queue
<cjwatson> stokachu: there's bug 990761 in partner; infinity was looking at that yesterday, but might not mind having it taken off him.  (I think my last comment in that bug may be a bit simplistic, since it's not clear that acroread has been converted to expect multiarch; there's more detail in the duplicate bug 998837.)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022864 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Precise) "Oneiric to Precise upgrade test failed: User settings are not preserved on upgrade" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022864
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990761 in acroread (Ubuntu) "acroread 9.5.1 is not installable on Ubuntu Precise amd64 system" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990761
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990761 in acroread (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #998837 acroread 9.5.1 is not installable on Ubuntu Precise amd64 system" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990761
<stokachu> these last two finish the requirements needed for lotus notes on amd64
<cjwatson> 1022864 is such a BS critical :)
 * cjwatson drops to high
<stokachu> cjwatson: want me to put those on my list?
<cjwatson> stokachu: If you wouldn't mind, I think it'd be helpful
<stokachu> cjwatson: ok ive got them added to be worked on
<cjwatson> Does anyone know what deals with gtk-theme migration?  it's not ubuntu-release-upgrader, and I suspect it's something in desktop
<ev> no idea
<cjwatson> Maybe gsettings-desktop-schemas since that ships that gsettings schema
<bdmurray> if it is affecting precise is the ubuntu-release-upgrader task really accurate?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: Probably not, but it's inaccurate anyway
<cjwatson> Sent over to gsettings-desktop-schema and desktop can worry about it
<cjwatson> bug 1021293 has also come up for 12.04, and so far I haven't had time to figure it out
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021293 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 12.04 install stalls when doing apt-get upgrade" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021293
<stokachu> i'd take it but i think im at my threshold
<cjwatson> Yeah, I may still get to it after all but wanted to mention it
<stokachu> ill add it to my list anyway and see if i can contribute
<cjwatson> OK.  Suspect it needs strace -f attached at an appropriate point, since it already has debconf debugging and that isn't being informative enough
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<cjwatson> anything else?
<stokachu> oh
<stokachu> +1 is it recommended to use pbuilder or sbuild?
<stokachu> ive just been using pbuilder but it sounds like sbuild can do some sort of resume building
 * barry prefers sbuild
<ev> stokachu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/PreferredTechnologies#Building
<stokachu> launchpad uses sbuild for their build service correct?
<stokachu> ev: awesome! thanks
<barry> stokachu: sbuild has lots of nice hooks, and when the build goes awry, you can do several things to help with debugging
<stokachu> awesome thats what i needed
<barry> stokachu: also: http://www.wefearchange.org/2011/09/sbuild-with-local-newer-dependencies.html
<stokachu> barry: nice got it bookmarked :D
<cjwatson> stokachu: Launchpad uses an old fork of sbuild
<cjwatson> One of these days maybe we'll get it current
<cjwatson> But yeah, that would be my recommendation too
<stokachu> ok sweet, thanks guys
<cjwatson> all right
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 11 15:34:48 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-11-15.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-11-15.04.html
<cjwatson> thanks all :)
<stgraber> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks cjwatson !
<stokachu> o/
<barry> thanks!
<ev> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-12
 * skaet waves
<stokachu> o/
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> #startmeeting 12.04.1 team meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 12 14:00:40 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<jamespage> o/
<arges> o\
<arges> o/
<stokachu> did you just hi-five yourself
<arges> stokachu, yes you win
<stgraber> ;)
<stokachu> lol
<stgraber> #topic Action items review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Action items review
<stgraber> arges to work on a 12.04.1 bug report, showing targeted bugs and information on status in development release, patches attached and branches linked
<arges> http://people.canonical.com/~arges/point-release/milestone-12.04.1.html
<arges> We can still fix if needed, but have it ready. I've proposed a merge for the code into the Arsenal project so anyone can look at it. (Patches welcome)
<arges> The code is here for now:
<arges> https://code.launchpad.net/~christopherarges/arsenal/arsenal
<arges> ..
<stgraber> what are the current criteria for a bug to show up on the list? (total bugs: 57 vs 112 in my current list)
<arges> stgraber, targeted to 12.04.1 && status is  ["New", "Confirmed", "Triaged", "In Progress", "Fix Committed"]
<arges> and targed to precise
<smoser> o/
<stgraber> smoser: go
<stokachu> lol
<smoser> i was a bit confused.
<stgraber> smoser: or was that just a "I'm around o/" ? :)
<smoser> i'm around.
<smoser> yeah.
<stgraber> ok :)
 * smoser wipes forehead.  whew!
<skaet> looks good arges.   Will do some correlations with the other data sources.  :)
<stgraber> arges: odd, it doesn't match my LP search but I can't really tell which of my LP search or the arsenal report is wrong to be honnest ;)
<stokachu> looks like several are missing tags
 * skaet is a bit worried about bug 1017001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<stokachu> i see a bunch with fix committed but no verification needed
<arges> I'll work on it and make it more accurate. but for the time being hopefully it can still be useful
<arges> in addition, where should I host it?
<arges> right now its just generated on my desktop here
<stokachu> geocities.com
<stgraber> stokachu: I'll try and take a pass through all the bugs, fix them where needed... I'm guessing some are marked fix commited but haven't actually been uploaded yet...
<stokachu> arges: canonistack
<stokachu> stgraber: ok
<skaet> stokachu,  I think the columns need to be switched to make it more intuitive.  (Verification Needed before Verification Done).   Is that the source of confusion?
<stokachu> skaet: ah
<stokachu> skaet: yea that does make more sense
<skaet> :)
<stokachu> haha
<arges> i can switch them
<stokachu> running off fumes this morning
<arges> I wanted to sort them by 'most actionable items' on top
<arges> so if it has the patch and the verification is done and there are lots of branches linked, then its on the top
<stokachu> ive been linking related branches of merge proposals
<stokachu> is there a way to tell a difference?
<skaet> clicking the column headers works for resorting ...  :)  hence me finding that critical that looks like its stalling out.
<stgraber> arges: you should be able to run the report on lillypilly initially, though it should then be moved to reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports with the others
<stokachu> that could be a +1 for patch column
<arges> stokachu, what do you mean?
<arges> stgraber, ok
<stokachu> arges: can you tell ifa related branch is a merge proposal or not
<stokachu> rather than seeing if an attachment is set to patch
<stokachu> you could set to 'has patch' if no attachment but there is a merge proposal
<arges> stokachu, yea right now the logic is patch_attached || patch tag
<arges> anyway. there are a lot of comments. so maybe I can summarize some actions for the next few weeks to work on this
<arges> - Verify this matches the list on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-12.04.1
<arges> - Get this hosted on lillypilly or another machine.
<arges> - Switch the Verification Done/Needed columns?
<arges> What else?
<stgraber> you may also want to check for verification-needed-precise/verification-done-precise
<arges> stgraber, yes I do that as well
<stgraber> cool! I wish all our other reports did :)
<skaet> looks like a good summary for now to me....  I suspect that after we start working with it,  there will be more ;)
<arges> ok great. feel free to ping /email me with more ideas
<stgraber> yeah, that report looks good and will surely be useful for monitoring other point releases or even non-LTS releases in the future
 * skaet nods
<stgraber> next action is:
<stgraber> xnox to liase with ballons, gema and jibel w.r.t. fs/storage testing
<arges> thanks
<stgraber> though xnox is at debconf so probably not much changed on that one. Keeping it around for next meeting
<stgraber> #topic Review of upcoming deadlines
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review of upcoming deadlines
<stgraber> 2012/08/02: Beginning of PointReleaseProcess and DesktopInfrastructureFreeze
<stgraber> 2012/08/09: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix Validation Testing
<stgraber> 2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
<stgraber> 2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
<stgraber> as usual, if you have any other Ubuntu or downstream deadline to add, please let me know
<stgraber> #topic Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress
<stgraber> So, looking at the LP bug lists, it doesn't look particularly good...
<stgraber> Bug list went from 106 bugs targeted to 12.04.1 to 112.
<stgraber> 26 of these are currently marked fix commited (vs 27 two weeks ago).
<stgraber> 50 of the 112 bugs aren't currently assigned to someone.
<stokachu> only 1 fix committed?
<smoser> -1
<stokachu> err yea
<stgraber> I'm hoping these fix commited are different ones from last week, but I don't have an easy way to check that
<stokachu> tbh i haven't seen much movement on sru's last week
<stokachu> i assume b/c of holidays etc
<skaet> in particular,  a bit worried about bug 1017001.   There are also some bugs that QA is encountering yesterday that they're worried about:  bug 1021718,  bug 1022864, bug 1022927
<stgraber> I think at this point we really really need every team to go through the list, assign the work to their team members, target any missing bug and re-target any bug that won't be fixed in time
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021718 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubuntu Precise ISO test failed in Jenkins due to debian installer failed to get debconf answer 'base-installer/kernel/linux/initrd'." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021718
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022864 in gsettings-desktop-schemas (Ubuntu Quantal) "Oneiric to Precise upgrade test failed: User settings are not preserved on upgrade" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022864
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022927 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Precise to quantal upgrade test failed: obsolete files left after the upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022927
<stokachu> yea the lack of ownership is worrisome
<skaet> I think stgraber's recommendation that the teams go through and assign individuals to each of the flagged bugs is what's needed.
<stokachu> agreed
<stgraber> 1017001 should probably be assigned to mvo or should at least be escalated to mvo. I'll take care of that when going through the foundations bugs
<skaet> thanks stgraber
<skaet> if when doing the pass to assign the bugs,  if folks could make sure the priority is accurate as well,  it would help.
 * skaet figures its probably worth bringing up at the meeting tomorrow,  that we're in the last push for 12.04.1 and there are lots of worrisome bugs out there.
<seb128> doh
<seb128> was there a meeting today? why didn't anyone ping me?
<stgraber> also don't hesitate to move things to 12.04.2 or -updates, I'm guessing we have quite a few of these bugs that aren't realistically going to make it to the point release and I'd prefer to have the list reflect that (instead of being over-optimistic as it seems to be at the moment)
<skaet> stgraber,  should we also be switching to weekly now?
<skaet> for the meeting
<stgraber> seb128: yep, there's a meeting. Google should have pinged you 10 minutes before the meeting... wan me to copy/paste the log so far?
<seb128> stgraber, google did, I got carried up in other discussions and forgot to join
<seb128> stgraber, that's fine, I will read the log online
<seb128> stgraber, just let me know if there was any question for me ;-)
<stgraber> skaet: I think it'd be a good idea to ensure that everyone is focused on getting these done
<stgraber> seb128: the only think desktopy I saw so far is bug 1022864 that Kate mentioned a bit earlier
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022864 in gsettings-desktop-schemas (Ubuntu Quantal) "Oneiric to Precise upgrade test failed: User settings are not preserved on upgrade" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022864
<seb128> stgraber, ok, I started following up on this, will keep doing that
<seb128> stgraber, is the meeting over?
<seb128> (sorry to step in the middle)
<skaet> seb128,  there wasn't a question,  but an action ;)  please go through the 12.04.1 bugs and clean up assignments/priority/milestone targets.  :)
<seb128> ok
<stgraber> seb128: nope, we're in the middle of it (going through the bug lists)
<ScottK> skaet/stgraber: There's a postfix microversion update pending acceptance that really ought to go into 12.04.1 because if it doesn't, upgraders are likely to have TLS problems.
<seb128> stgraber, ok, sorry for the noise then, please get going, I'm around now ;-)
<skaet> ScottK,  bug number?
<stgraber> ScottK: are the relevant bugs targeted to 12.04.1?
 * ScottK looks
<jamespage> ScottK, bug 1022772
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022772 in postfix (Ubuntu Precise) "Microversion release update for postfix 2.9.3-2" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022772
<ScottK> That's the SRU bug.
<jamespage> original bug report - bug 991754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 991754 in postfix (Ubuntu Precise) "Add support to turn off the TLSv1.1 and TLSv1.2 protocols" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991754
<ScottK> That's the one.
<ScottK> I think Bug #1001040  is related too.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001040 in postfix (Ubuntu) ""TLS library problem" drops incoming mail when sender uses RC4-MD5 cipher" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001040
<ScottK> I think we definitely want this resolved before server upgrades start in earnest.
<stgraber> ok, status looks good and it's targeted, so assuming it gets tested quickly, there'll be no problem to have it in 12.04.1
<ScottK> First some other SRU person needs to accept it ...
<ScottK> Maybe bdmurray would do it.
<stgraber> we seem to have almost 2 weeks worth of SRU backlog in the queue, that's getting a bit scary... hopefully it'll get better when debconf is over and we get back slangasek and infinity
<skaet> ScottK,  yup, its his day for SRU vanguarding... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SRUTeamProcess
<ScottK> Perfect.
<bdmurray> ScottK: postfix is it?
<ScottK> bdmurray: yes.  For Precise.
<skaet> stgraber,  ok,  I'll start beating the drums, and seeing if we can get some focus.
<seb128> yeah, SRU backlog is concerning
<stgraber> skaet: would be great. Apparently nagging directly for a given package seems to work quite well, but that means that people who aren't nagging in #ubuntu-release have to wait weeks to have their stuff accepted...
<seb128> we are at constant level around  30 items backlog
<skaet> yeah,  infinity had some ideas on this,  but I haven't seen any updates about it.
<seb128> it's going to be an increasing issue as we get close from the freeze date
<stokachu> good we are getting fixes proposed, bad we dont have the bandwidth
<stokachu> is it possible to check for valid sru's in the first comment and dismiss those missing any one of the 3 required
<stokachu> or description, whatever
<stokachu> was thinking maybe launchpad janitor or some other bot
<stokachu> also having a form submission for SRU's would help to keep required fields
<stgraber> stokachu: I'd expect one that doesn't have these fields set to be rejected, not left in the queue. I don't think the format is strict enough that it can easily be detected at this point though
<stokachu> stgraber: yea im just curious if they haven't been touched yet though
<ScottK> I think I did leave a couple in the queue that needed work on the bug, but made comments there/set them to incomplete.
<stokachu> ScottK: do those actually show in the queue waiting for someone in SRU team to work on?
<stgraber> at some point we'll want to automatically get these test cases and push them to packages.qa.ubuntu.com, so requiring a well structured description will help achieve that. Though I guess that's something to discuss at the next UDS.
<stokachu> i recommended an updates system at the previous one
<stokachu> QA didn't seem to impressed though :)
<stokachu> anyway, stgraber those bugs i posted yesterday for you are the ones relevant to 12.04.1 as well
<stokachu> should i post them again for archival's sake?
<ScottK> stgraber: I think it would be nice to have a page like the one for SRU status in -proposed that serves a a control panel for what needs working on.  It could mark incomplete bugs yellow or something so people don't relook.
<stgraber> #action skaet to poke the SRU team and see what can be done to process the current backlog
<meetingology> ACTION: skaet to poke the SRU team and see what can be done to process the current backlog
<skaet> yup
<stgraber> #action stgraber to review and sponsor bug 977947, bug 977952 and bug 977940
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to review and sponsor bug 977947, bug 977952 and bug 977940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977947 in libbonobo (Ubuntu Quantal) "Please transition libbonobo to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977947
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977952 in libbonoboui (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonoboui to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977940 in gnome-vfs (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition gnome-vfs to multi-arch" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977940
<stokachu> stgraber: thanks :D
<stokachu> seb128 could probably help with 977940 if he has time
<stgraber> ScottK: yeah, having tried to do some of that in queuebot, the main pain is that the API doesn't let us query much from the queue at this point. Though that may have changed with cjwatson's work on the queue API
<stgraber> ScottK: the main problem in the past was that you would only get the URL to the .changes file and would then have to parse it to get anything out of it (and then query LP again based on that)
<ScottK> Not very helpful.
<stgraber> yeah :) I wanted to show the IRC nickname of the uploader in queuebot but decided not to do it as I'd have had to: grab the .changes => parse it => extract e-mail => match against LP => get the user object => query ircnickname
<stokachu> seb128: you mentioned multi-arch bugs at the previous meeting, are there any that you are aware of that I haven't touched yet
<stgraber> instead of being able to do the usual .uploader.irc_name :)
<ScottK> stgraber: ./queue info shows stuff like " 4373718 | S- | qemu-kvm             | 1.0+noroms-0ubuntu14 | 17 hours         | * qemu-kvm/1.0+noroms-0ubuntu14 Component: main Section: misc" now.
<seb128> stokachu, what's the status of those atm? I uploaded libart-lgpl and reviewed gnome-vfs that you updated yesterday
<ScottK> That seems like a useful basis for something.
<stokachu> ah
<seb128> stokachu, what about the libbobobo,ui ones, did slangasek review it again?
<stokachu> seb128: stgraber added it to his list to review
<seb128> ok
<stokachu> i saw you reviweed gnome-vfs but did you review the merge proposal?
<stokachu> he addressed your changes mentioned
<stokachu> it*
<stokachu> the only other 2 i know of are libgnome2 and appmenu-gtk
<stgraber> gnome-vfs is on my list for today, so I'm happy to review it too
<stokachu> which im current working
<seb128> stokachu, ok, yeah, appmenu-gtk seems to be the one coming often
<seb128> stokachu, thanks, seems those are on track then
<stokachu> ok cool, please lemme know if any other come up
<stgraber> stokachu: let me know when they're ready to be looked at and I'll look and sponsor (I have a few more questions on the testing you did, but I'll poke you post-meeting)
<stgraber> #topic Round table
<stokachu> ok
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Round table
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ echo $(shuf -e NCommander seb128 stgraber arges jibel skaet smoser jamespage)
<stgraber> NCommander arges jibel skaet seb128 smoser stgraber jamespage
<stokachu> aww no love 4 stokachu
<skaet> stokachu, why don't you start then...  I suspect NCommander's offline
<stgraber> stokachu: oops :) let's pretend you're after arges
<stokachu> LOL
<stgraber> or now, whatever :)
<stokachu> I think im covered for now
<stgraber> arges:
<arges> i'm good
<arges> ..
<stgraber> no jibel around
<stgraber> skaet:
<skaet> back from vacation,   getting concerned about all the recent failures (as mentioned);  about to start beating the drum....
<skaet> need to get the QA daily tests working reliably again as first priority.
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> seb128:
<seb128> desktop SRUs still go well, on a regular basis
<seb128> we are a bit behind for compiz,unity
<seb128> we should have an unity SRU with a big pile of fixes next week
<seb128> then a compiz one
<seb128> (we got an issue with the current compiz  SRU this week, that's going to be addressed with a follow up upload rsn)
<seb128> then we aim at another round of unity uploads at the end of the month, mostly backports from quantal performance improvements
<seb128> otherwise as mentioned before the SRU team backlog and delay to do review is still concerning
<seb128> it really slow down work and breaks the dynamic, it also makes hard to follow errors.ubuntu.com since lot of the issues are addressed with fixes blocked in the queue for weeks
<seb128> ..
<skaet> seb128,  please remind unity/compiz teams of the 08/02 date to get all the desktop infrastructure changes in by.
<seb128> skaet, yes, we have that in mind and we will make sure to be in time ;-)
<skaet> :)
<stgraber> smoser:
<smoser> jamespage, and i just went through the server team bugs.
<smoser> significant amount are juju or maas.
<smoser> and we'll follow up with those teams to push a bit and get a sense of urgency
<smoser> that really just about covers the list at http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<smoser> thats it.
<stgraber> stgraber:
<stgraber> must admit being a bit behind on tracking SRUs at the moment... I still have at least one in the queue. Started reviewing stokachu's multi-arch SRUs (should be uploaded today)
<stgraber> I'll also go through the whole list and make sure the bugs have all proper target/tags/importance/status and assign these that are foundation-y
<stgraber> will probably be talking a bit with skaet on these that I think we'd need to drop from 12.04.1
<stgraber> I remember some of the listed ones requiring significant upstream changes that haven't even started, so pretty unlikely to be ready (thinking of one of the dnsmasq bug)
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> jamespage:
<stgraber> going to assume that it's mostly the same as smoser
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  AOB
<stgraber> so as Kate suggested earlier, the meeting will now become a weekly meeting
<stgraber> I'll update the wiki and the calendar
<stgraber> same place, same time, just every week now
<stgraber> #action stgraber to change the meeting to a weekly meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to change the meeting to a weekly meeting
<stgraber> anything else?
<jamespage> stgraber, sorry - it was - got called away for a second...
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 12 15:05:37 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-14.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-14.00.html
<stgraber> thanks everyone, sorry for finishing a bit late
<stokachu> thanks!
<skaet> thanks!
<asomething> #startmeeting "MOTU Meeting"
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 12 16:18:58 2012 UTC.  The chair is asomething. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | "MOTU Meeting" Meeting | Current topic:
<asomething> Hi all! Any one around for the motu meeting?
<asomething> looks like we have one agenda item besides our standing ones
<asomething> MOTU School Doodle poll results update and discussion
<coolbhavi> m there!
<coolbhavi> asomething, one good news is we had a good response for the 1st school session on restart yesterday
<asomething> #topic MOTU School Doodle poll results update and discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | "MOTU Meeting" Meeting | Current topic:  MOTU School Doodle poll results update and discussion
 * tumbleweed waves from debconf
<asomething> coolbhavi, great, how'd the session go? good attendance?
<coolbhavi> asomething, yes there was a reasonable turn up yesterday
 * coolbhavi searches his bookmarks for the poll link
<asomething> are the logs up one the wiki somewhere?
<asomething> coolbhavi, http://doodle.com/w9p6hh43hfwk8xmp
<coolbhavi> thanks asomething  the logs are linked by nhandler today I believe on the wiki
<asomething> one thing I've noticed is that we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School
<asomething> i wonder if these should be merged
<coolbhavi> yes asomething I'll do that over the next week
<asomething> great
<asomething> #action coolbhavi, merge https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School
<meetingology> ACTION: coolbhavi, merge https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School
<coolbhavi> asomething, based on the timings feedback I got here is the post I posted on the mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2012-June/007267.html
<asomething> is there anything that could go better for the next class? was there some kind of help you could have used that you don't feel you got?
<coolbhavi> asomething, yes there is a streamlining process in my mind
<coolbhavi> basically to sustain the school we need to have a team who co ordinate with various people and setup sessions
<coolbhavi> fitting across most time zones
<coolbhavi> doing a bit of blogging about the sessions just a week before the sessions
<asomething> #action asomething, help blog about the next motu school session
<meetingology> ACTION: asomething, help blog about the next motu school session
<coolbhavi> and sending a remainder to the list 2 or 3 days before the sessions
<coolbhavi> asomething, any views on the same welcome!
<asomething> ya, in the past we've struggled to have trainings on a regular basis. I think you're probably hitting the same issues
<asomething> has anyone stepped up to lead the next class?
<coolbhavi> hmm I see a https://launchpad.net/~packaging-training-coordinators team on LP maybe we can open up a new team and merge the same as in the case of d-a-t
<coolbhavi> asomething, I got a lukewarm response for handling sessions on the list so I took the first session
<coolbhavi> keeping in mind the audience turnout
<asomething> so from your email, it looks like 27th July will be the next class, right?
<asomething> #link http://doodle.com/w9p6hh43hfwk8xmp
<coolbhavi> yes
<asomething> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2012-June/007267.html
<asomething> #info 27th July will be the MOTU School next class, still needs an instructor
<asomething> so is there anything else to discuss? I don't think we have any thing new for the ARB to report back
<coolbhavi> no I am done from my side
<asomething> #topic Next MOTU meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | "MOTU Meeting" Meeting | Current topic:  Next MOTU meeting
<asomething> so turn out was a bit low =)
<coolbhavi> ll catchup on the list on motu school
<coolbhavi> :)
<asomething> if we're going to keep the every other week pace, that put's us on 26 July
<coolbhavi> +1
<asomething> I can't commit to chairing the next meeting, but I'll send out the minutes from this one and commit to sending the reminder mails to the list
<asomething> #action send out meeting minutes
<meetingology> ACTION: send out meeting minutes
<asomething> #action asomething, update wiki headers and send out reminders for next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: asomething, update wiki headers and send out reminders for next meeting
<asomething> guess that's all for today
<coolbhavi> same here but I can chair i think next
<asomething> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 12 16:51:42 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-16.18.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-16.18.html
<jono> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 12 18:00:20 2012 UTC.  The chair is jono. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jono> hi everyone, and welcome to the Ubuntu Accomplishments meeting!
<jono> I know cielak is going to be a bit late to join us
<jono> but who is here for the meeting?
 * mfisch is
 * imbrandon waves o/
<AlanBell> o/
<jono> awesome
<jono> I wanted to first discuss quality
<jono> recently we have been working to improve the quality across our codebases
<jono> I wrote an admin UI for visibility on server-side issues
<jono> and we are moving towards unit testing
<jono> mfisch, can you summarize your work on this?
<mfisch> yes
<mfisch> so I basically gutted the unit tests for the daemon
<mfisch> the setup for the daemon was much simpler back then.  I spent a few hours last night perfecting the directory structure
<mfisch> writing config files
<mfisch> ABOUT files
<mfisch> extrainformation directorys
<mfisch> ies I mean
<mfisch> then today I wrote 10 tests, so far
<mfisch> there's probably 10-15 more to be writt8en
<mfisch> I found 2 small bugs already
<mfisch> first of all my code is here:
<mfisch> https://code.launchpad.net/~mfisch/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon-new-unittests/
<mfisch> the bugs are:
<jono> mfisch, so the setUp is completely created in /tmp?
<mfisch> jono: yes
<mfisch> the bugs are:
<mfisch> 1) if you have an icon without a file extenstion you get an exception
<mfisch> I think this is unlikely and was just due to my fake accomplishment, so I commented it only
<cielak> hello everyone, sorry for being late
<jono> hey cielak
<imbrandon> heya
<jono> cielak, we are just discussing mfisch's unit testing work:
<mfisch> bug 2)
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 2 could not be found
<mfisch> lol
<jono> so I basically gutted the unit tests for the daemon
<jono>  the setup for the daemon was much simpler back then.  I spent a few hours last night perfecting the directory structure
<jono>  writing config files
<jono>  ABOUT files
<jono>  extrainformation directorys
<jono>  ies I mean
<jono>  then today I wrote 10 tests, so far
<jono>  there's probably 10-15 more to be writt8en
<jono>  I found 2 small bugs already
<jono>  first of all my code is here:
<jono>  https://code.launchpad.net/~mfisch/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon-new-unittests/
<imbrandon> :)
<jono> mfisch, so are you running quickly test to run the tests?
<mfisch> the 2nd bug is if the mediafile doesn't exist, you set media_filename to None and then try to concat Str + None
<mfisch> jono: right now they're run manually, after I finish writing tests I will set this up so that the package build runs them
<mfisch> the standard is that if the tests fail, the package build fails
<jono> mfisch, if you used the same class and file, quickly test should run them all anyway
<jono> mfisch, right
<mfisch> so I'd recommend everyone either build the package or run the tests before checkin
<imbrandon> we can likely have automated ci jenkins.ubuntu.com run them too
<mfisch> jono: yes, I'm using python's unit test
<jono> mfisch, so these bugs...are they bugs in unit testing or this is where the unit tests have identified failures?
<mfisch> I was going to use nosetests in the package build, but maybe quickly does that already?
<jono> using jenkins might be useful
<mfisch> jono: both bugs are cases that could happen, but were found due to incomplete tests
<mfisch> jono: like "icon=foo", if you do that in a accomp, you will get an exception
<jono> mfisch, right
<mfisch> because: a, b = icon.split(".")
<jono> so these are good testings to have
<jono> which already will improve our quality
<imbrandon> i'm familar with it is none else is so can help setup the ci scripts to run the test once mfisch has them more completed
<imbrandon> ( for jenkins )
<jono> mfisch, I will definitely take a look at your branch
<mfisch> one large thing is missing so far from these tests
<mfisch> they do not start the service
<mfisch> they're just testing the Accomplishments class
<mfisch> so things like the accomplish() method, don't work
<jono> mfisch, right
<jono> so I am not sure if we need to start the service
<imbrandon> corectino its https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/ btw sorry :)
<mfisch> jono: we can do a lot of testing without it
<jono> this is why we would use setUp to generate the data and then pass it to the function
<mfisch> I chose a different route
<jono> mfisch, so maybe right now we focus on the testing that can just do assertEqual checks
<mfisch> I end up creating an accomplishment object in each test so I can mess around with stuff, like the ABOUT file
<mfisch> for example
<mfisch> I have a test that removes the ABOUT file and asserts that we get an exception
<cielak> well, that makes sense for me too - all the service stuff is mosty done by twistd, and there is very little we actually mess with it
<mfisch> jono: and I have tests for your config writer/reader stuff
<jono> mfisch, cool
<jono> I think this is going to help us to get to a culture where all functions have tests and documentation
<imbrandon> is there plans for a linter for the accomplishments or do we think the tests are enough
<mfisch> jono: I also removed all the "homedir = " references which are not needed since you added that environment vairable
<mfisch> imbrandon: personally I think a linter will help
<jono> mfisch, which homedir refs?
<mfisch> imbrandon: the code will throw exceptions when it sees stuff it doesnt like
<mfisch> jono: look at checkin #100 in my branch
<imbrandon> yea we can do thinkgs like E: and W: with a linter tho :)
<cielak> jono: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mfisch/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon-new-unittests/revision/100#accomplishments/daemon/api.py
<mfisch> imbrandon: here's some examples that I've found
<imbrandon> k
<mfisch> imbrandon: one call will fail if there's no icon field
<jono> mfisch, I see, as we already have self.dir_<whatever> set earlier in the code
<mfisch> imbrandon: another will fail if icon doesn't have a . in it
<mfisch> jono: yep
<jono> cool
<jono> mfisch, how much test coverage do you think we can get without requiring the service?
<jono> just pure unit testing
<mfisch> we can easily test every public API
<mfisch> well
<mfisch> except accomplish()
<mfisch> thats the only one I'm sure we can't test
<jono> right
<imbrandon> i'll start on a basic linter this afternoon then, thats something i can easily fit into my schedule and then post to the list once i have the basics working and we can discuss things to check
<mfisch> I have a huge list at the top of the tests
<jono> mfisch, so that list is acting as the TODO?
<mfisch> a list of public API calls
<mfisch> yeah
<jono> imbrandon, cool
<mfisch> it's a TODO
<cielak> I guess that's enough to test all the 'logic' of all functions... mfisch, why there is an exception for accomplish() ?
<mfisch> I hope to knock a few more out today
<mfisch> cielak: when you instantiate the Accomplishment class you're supposed to pass a service reference
<mfisch> self.service = service
<mfisch> I'm passing None because I don't have one
<jono> cielak, indeed
<cielak> yeah, but why does it stop you from testing accomplish() ?
<jono> and that is going to be the primary focus on these unit tests, to ensure that the result is as expected
<cielak> how does it differ from other methods?
<mfisch> accomplish calls service routines
<mfisch> self.service.trophy_received(accomID)
<mfisch> since self.service is None, bad things happen
<mfisch> I'd eventually like to fix that
<cielak> ah, right, that's true
<mfisch> but we can get some low hanging fruit without it
<jono> thanks for your efforts on this, mfisch
<mfisch> np
<cielak> what about we passed it a fake service instance?
<jono> this is going to be really helpful in ensuring we don't break things
<cielak> that would have a fake, empty trophy_received() method?
<imbrandon> yea mock
<mfisch> something like that would work
<jono> perfect
<mfisch> so let me do this
<mfisch> let me write more tests this afternoon and then do a MP
<mfisch> and then we can discuss next steps
 * cielak just read some code from that branch, and it looks very promising
<jono> mfisch, perfect, if you file a MP we can then merge in your work so far and then you can just iterate with more tests
<jono> and before long we should have full test coverage
<imbrandon> yup
<mfisch> so I do have one request, or something to watch for
<jono> mfisch, sure
<mfisch> it is confusing for people reading the code when we use acc, accs, accom, accomp, accomps, accoms, and accomplishments
<jono> yeah we need to fix this
<jono> mfisch, you mean in api.py?
<mfisch> so when you're designing your API and writing your code, it's better to agree on one abbreviation
<mfisch> jono: thats the only one I've really been looking at
<jono> makes sense
<mfisch> just a thought
<jono> we should fix these
<cielak> yup, agreed
<jono> mfisch, could you file a bug against the daemon for this
<jono> my hunch is that we use 'accom'
<mfisch> sure, will do
<cielak> but it's not just the daemon
<jono> thanks mfisch
<cielak> it's us too
<jono> cielak, indeed :-)
<jono> so I have a related topic
<jono> documentation
<cielak> we need to standartize not only appearances in the code, but out vocabulary too :)
<cielak> our*
<jono> cielak, agreed
<jono> this week I started putting together developer documentation
<imbrandon> sphinx ROCKS! , we've been using it in juju, omg i'm in love with sphinx docs ... that is all :)
<jono> I want to ensure that our daemon API is fully documented
<jono> and I talked with cielak a little about this
<jono> imbrandon, indeed
<jono> so the plan is this:
<jono>  * we want to document the following core things:
<jono>  - api.py - this is the internal implementation, and these docs will be designed for people hacking on the daemon
<jono>  - dbusapi.py - this generates our client documentation that client devs will use
<jono> you can see this work evolving at http://213.138.100.229/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/docs/_build/html/index.html#module-accomplishments.daemon
<jono> take a look at http://213.138.100.229/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/docs/_build/html/clientref.html
<jono> this is the client docs
<jono> I spent some time adding this earlier this week, I still need to finish
<jono> cielak, did you get a chance to document api.py?
<jono> the docs in api.py might be useful for mfisch when writing tests and knowing what a function should return
<cielak> jono: not yet, but that's on top of my priority list now, so I'll do it really soon
<jono> awesome cielak
<jono> one thing I wanted ask re. this
<jono> so our functions in dbusapi.py typically output dbus data
<mfisch> yes, docs would help
<jono> but I have been showing the examples just outputting the plain lists to show it simplifiied
<jono> do you think this makes sense?
<cielak> jono: do you have an example of that?
<jono> cielak, as an example: http://213.138.100.229/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/docs/_build/html/clientref.html#accomplishments.daemon.dbusapi.AccomplishmentsDBusService.get_acc_categories
<imbrandon> jono as a side note, the ubuntu theme i created for http://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/ ( sphinx ) is at lp:ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-sphinx-theme if when its time to publish you want to make it follow branding etc
<jono> I show this just outputting a straight list
<jono> imbrandon, oh cool, could you merge it into ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon and submit a MP?
<cielak> jono: aah, and it should actually be [dbus.String("Launchpad")], or something like that?
<jono> cielak, right
<imbrandon> jono: aure thing
<imbrandon> sure*
<jono> but I am not sure if I should show the full dbus output, cielak
<jono> or keep it simple, as it is still a list
<jono> my hunch is to keep it simple
<jono> thanks imbrandon!
<cielak> well, if we will state clearly enough that this actually are dbus data types, then any developer familiar with dbus will know what does that mean
<jono> cielak, that makes sense
<jono> we can mention that in the general docs
<jono> I can put that at the top of the docs page
<cielak> and of course, being consistent is the key:  http://213.138.100.229/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/docs/_build/html/clientref.html#accomplishments.daemon.dbusapi.AccomplishmentsDBusService.build_viewer_database
<jono> cielak, indeed
<jono> we will want to give them all a look for accuracy
<jono> ok cool, so cielak, you are going to work on docs next?
<jono> and I will finish off the client docs too
<cielak> I think a general note about the AccomplishmentsDBusSrvice class will do the trick
<jono> cielak, yup
<cielak> yup, that's what I'm gonna do next :)
<imbrandon> also note i can make it "look" liek anything with the CSS :)
<jono> cielak, it might make sense if you can start documentating the functions that mfisch has not written tests for yet
<jono> so he knows the return values to expect
<jono> imbrandon, cool!
<mfisch> good idea
<cielak> okay, sure - but documenting all this shouldn't take much time anyway
<cielak> but I'll start with these that are missing test, to ensure mfisch will get them as soon as possible
<jono> mfisch, would it helpful for cielak to just list all the return details first for all the missing tests and then fill the docs afterwards?
<jono> cielak, cool!
<mfisch> yeah that works
<mfisch> most so far I've figured out from reading the python
<mfisch> cielak: the "to do" list is at the top of the unit tests
<cielak> yeah, in most cases that's not complicated at all
<cielak> thanks mfisch, will follow it
<mfisch> so I have another topic
<mfisch> depending on what jono has
<jono> thanks
<jono> mfisch, sure
<mfisch> does the accomp linter remove the need for the daemon to be more bullet proof?
<mfisch> i know it helps
<mfisch> but when I wrote my accomplishments I was greeted by lots of crashing
<jono> mfisch, accomp linter?
<imbrandon> hrm, i think it would help devs more than needing to be bulletproof
<mfisch> accomplishment checker/verifier
<imbrandon> jono: the new linter i talked about earlier
<jono> mfisch, oh you mean battery?
<mfisch> I think its a tool that will read 1 accomp file and tell you if something required is missing or broken
<jono> mfisch, we have that
<cielak> more or less
<jono> I wrote a tool called Accomplishments Battery
<imbrandon> jono: no , like "lintian" for ebian packageing only this will be for ubuntu accompilshment writers
<imbrandon> ahhh
<imbrandon> well maybe so then
<cielak> actually, I think the battery should be expanded with the funcionality of a linter
<mfisch> ok
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> that sounds like ti
<jono> let me explain:
<jono> so I wrote this tool called accomplishments-battery that can do a full test run over all accoms
<cielak> there is a lot of other checks it might perform to help accomplishment devs to ensure their accomplishment works
<jono> and you can use it to test a specific accomplishment
<cielak> okay, but now the battery makes sense only for global accomplishments
<jono> I also added a check which tells you if you missed fields in your .accomplishment file
<jono> cielak, yes, we need to make it work better for local accoms
<mfisch> perfect
<cielak> oh, I didn't know about that feature
<imbrandon> yuo perfect
<jono> mfisch, imbrandon https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Creating/Guide/Testing
<mfisch> let me explain my thought
<jono> mfisch, sure
<mfisch> right now, a missing = sign in 1 accomp file will take the whole daemon down
<jono> mfisch, right
<mfisch> it sounds like we have tools to help you test that (we didn't back in my day!)
<jono> mfisch, well, we have a tool that checks if the script works
<mfisch> so, I guess just keep that in mind when we're writing code, we might need more exception handling
<jono> we don't currently do syntax checking in bettery
<jono> which would be handy
<jono> mfisch, although I think the daemon should not go down when it finds a syntax issue
<jono> we might want to throw some badly formed accomplishments at it as part of the unit tests
<mfisch> I have some
<mfisch> but now I only assert that they do throw exceptions
<jono> the goal of battery is to help the accom dev submit a perfectly working accom
<jono> mfisch, gotcha
<mfisch> I had a plan to do this
<jono> mfisch, what would be handy is if you could file bugs for these issues
<jono> we should definitely fix them
<mfisch> have 3 good accomps, make sure we see 3, add 1 bad one, make sure we still see 3
<mfisch> ok
<jono> mfisch, cool
<mfisch> right now 3+ 1 bad one = crash
<jono> mfisch, good point though
<jono> right
<cielak> very true
<mfisch> I'll file a few more today then
<cielak> daemon does indeed depend on the accoms correctness
<jono> fortunatley, these should be simple fixes
<jono> thanks mfisch
<cielak> also, it can be crashed with a wrong config file
<jono> cielak, would you be happy to look at these bugs and I will fix it in battery?
<cielak> of course
<jono> maybe we can look at this when our docs are finalized
<jono> mfisch, cool, so if you can file the bugs and assign them to cielak
<cielak> this may require some tricks, but is really needed
<mfisch> ok
<jono> I will try to get better syntax checking in battery
<jono> thanks guys
<jono> I will be out at OSCON next week, so my battery work may be a little later
<jono> cielak, good news is I am not seeing any server failures
<cielak> neither I do :-)
<jono> ok, just to recap:
<jono>  * cielak - you will add the return types to the api.py docs first and mfisch can use that to continue building the tests
<jono>  * cielak - you will then flesh out the api.py docs
<jono>  * mfisch - you will continue to grow our unit tests
<jono>  * imbrandon - you will add ubuntu theming support to sphinx
<jono>  * me - I will finish off the docs for the client side
<imbrandon> jono: yup, just about done actually :)
<jono>  * cielak - you will look at the syntax bugs in the daemon and I will fix this in battery
<jono> this should keep us busy until the next meeting
<cielak> yeah, exactly ;)
<jono> awesome
<jono> also, I am expanding https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/GetInvolved/Hacking more and more where I can
<jono> so we can have good docs for new devs joining us
<jono> any other topics?
<imbrandon> nope , not here
<jono> ok cool
<imbrandon> jono: http://api.websitedevops.com/accomplishments-docs/
<cielak> does anyone lurking want to ask us anything? ;-)
<jono> imbrandon, haha!
<jono> nice!
<imbrandon> needs some tweeks but its almost ready :)
<cielak> imbrandon: oh, wow!
<imbrandon> :)
 * imbrandon loves web stuff 
<jono> imbrandon, looks like there are a few tweaks that need to happen in there
<jono> a few layout issues
<jono> imbrandon, thanks so much
<jono> this is going to rock when we get this online
<imbrandon> yup, its talored to juju docs now, but yea
<bkerensa> imbrandon: rocking job man!
<imbrandon> hour or two of touchups and it will rock
<jono> thanks imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya bkerensa
<imbrandon> np jono
<jono> any other questions, folks?
<jono> I guess we can wrap
<jono> thanks everyone for joining us, awesome meeting!
<jono> and as ever, we are in #ubuntu-accomplishments
<gigix> jono, I might come back and ask for a summary though
<cielak> thanks everyone, thanks jono!
<jono> gigix, this meeting will be logged
<jono> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 12 18:52:14 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-18.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-18.00.html
<jono> gigix, ^
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-13
 * skaet waves
<mdeslaur> \o
<roadmr> hello
 * ogra_ moos
<skaet> :)
<brendand> o/
<brendand> hi
 * stgraber waves
<skaet> hiya,  time to start it seem.   :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jul 13 15:00:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet> Agenda (and minute location):
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-07-13
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming dates:
<skaet> 12.10
<skaet>     2012/07/16-19: practice freeze queue test?
<skaet>     2012/07/23: Quantal Alpha 3 image candidates start
<skaet>     2012/07/26: Quantal Alpha 3
<skaet>     2012/08/23: Quantal Feature Freeze
<skaet> 12.04.1
<skaet>     2012/08/02: DesktopInfrastructureFreeze
<skaet>     2012/08/09: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix Validation Testing
<skaet>     2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
<skaet>     2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 2012/06/29 -  3041 (was 2763 last week):  rather dramatic uptick in workitems for this pont in the cycle, being investigated.  As a result though the overall burn down trendline is looking a bit concerning again.   Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs:
<skaet> Quantal: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> 12.04.1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?assignee_option=none&field.milestone%3Alist=49926
<skaet> .
<skaet> Pending action items:
<skaet> * [brendand] provide prioritized list of HW CERT targets for 12.04.1,
<skaet> top 5, and prioritized order after that. (brendand, 20120629 15:12:00)
<skaet> .
<skaet> Weekly Status Received:
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001529.html - HW Cert - brendand
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001527.html - QA - gema
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001544.html - QA community - balloons
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001528.html - Security - mdeslaur
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001532.html - Kernel - ogasawara
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001541.html - Foundations - ogra
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001542.html - Server - arosales
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001531.html - Desktop - seb128
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001539.html - Unity - popey
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001534.html - Edubuntu - stgraber
<seb128> hey
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001538.html - Kubuntu - Riddell
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001536.html - Lubuntu - gilir
<popey> o/
<stgraber> the 12.04.1 link above is for bugs that are targeted to 12.04.1 but aren't assigned to anyone. Please have a look and assign any relevant bug to your team members. (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?assignee_option=none&field.milestone%3Alist=49926)
<stgraber> full list is available at: 15:01 < skaet> 12.04.1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?assignee_option=none&field.milestone%3Alist=49926
<stgraber> gah...
<skaet> hiya seb128 , popey,  welcome.   just finished pasting the preamble stuff.
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> full list is available at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
<stgraber> there we go :)
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> #topic Questions and Comments
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Questions and Comments
<brendand> top 5 list is:
<brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/994685
<brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1016195
<brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/990575
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 994685 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "[Dell Inspiron 17] Headphone jack outputs no sound" [Medium,Fix committed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016195 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Dell Latitude E6220] Crashes or exits with signal 9 when under heavy load" [High,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990575 in linux (Ubuntu) "Entire desktop becomes unresponsive after suspend/resume" [High,Confirmed]
<skaet> Thanks brendand!  :)
<brendand> that's a top 3 :)
 * skaet marks that action item done
<skaet> and glad to have it less than 5.  :)
<ogasawara> I'll have my team follow up.
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> ..
<brendand> skaet - i had a little comment on : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1021293
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021293 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubuntu 12.04 install stalls when doing apt-get upgrade" [High,Triaged]
<skaet> go ahead
<brendand> skaet - the issue is that the bug only manifests with the release image, so we can't use it at the moment
<brendand> skaet, so fixing it in 12.04.1 is essentially moot
<cjwatson> well.  except that given that it's apparently related to which packages get related, if we don't fix it in .1, it could recur at any time.
<cjwatson> sorry I haven't had time to look into it yet but I've had to focus on bug 1023036
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023036 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Error on /usr/share/ubiquity/plugininstall.py", line 1687, affecting desktop images (preseeded install)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023036
<brendand> cjwatson, sure. for now we need to continue with the 12.04.1 daily though
<brendand> cjwatson, i totally understand that other more critical bugs have come up this week
<cjwatson> that's reasonable, I just don't think we can drop its priority on that basis
<brendand> cjwatson, at the moment i believe the 12.04.1 daily is broken as well
<gema> brendand: server is, yes
<brendand> gema, you don't have reason to believe desktop is? i saw the build was failed
<gema> brendand: I was going to type and desktop and alternate
<cjwatson> build or test?
<gema> cjwatson: test
<gema> well, there is no build today of desktop :?
<brendand> cjwatson, i meant jenkins 'build'. sorry
<brendand> old habit
 * doko waves from debconf
<gema> brendand, cjwatson the tests are failing but we haven't had the time to get to them with all the other failures
<gema> I will try to get to that before leaving today
<brendand> gema - i think we are having a stab at it right now, so maybe we'll let you know soon!
<gema> brendand: thanks
<arosales> o/
<skaet> brendand ..?
<gema> ..
<brendand> skaet, i'm done
<brendand> ..
<skaet> thanks,  go arosales
<arosales> 2 comments
<arosales> ogra: looks like the arm build server are lagging due to panda board availability
<arosales> if so I can see if we have a few extras to help with the build progress
<ogra_> arosales, yes, they do
<arosales> orga_ I'll contact you offline to see if we can help with hardware issue
<ogra_> arosales, well, i think elmo'S team has a mandabox somewhere already, if thats actually the case i would rather like to see the time invested in bringing that one up than to add extra free flaying pandas in the DC
<arosales> gema: I think james page should have updated the server test cases for tomcat
<ogra_> arosales, i know kate asked in direction IS, lets wait for that feedback first
<skaet> ogra_, arosales,  pgraner's been in touch with IS,  will let you both know when I hear something back.
<ogra_> great
<arosales> orga_ : ok, feel free to ping me if the hardware continues to be an issue and I can try to help hunt down some additional ones
<gema> arosales: thanks
<arosales> ..
<ogra_> o/
<pgraner> ogra_, elmo is looking into it
<skaet> thanks arosales,  go ogra_
<ogra_> pgraner, yay, thanks :)
<pgraner> ogra_, additionally I've got imx6's with sata that rtg & infinity have to see if we could use them
 * ogra_ hands a bouquet to ogasawara ....
<arosales> pgraner: skaet: thanks
<ogra_> ogasawara, as mentioned in the foundations report, we'd like to see some kernel team focus on bug 1023174 ... just wanted to mention it here additionally
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023174 in linux (Ubuntu) ""ip -6 addr flush" flushes much more than just the addresses" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023174
<ogra_> ..
<ogasawara> ogra_: ack, have already sent email out to have it investigated by my team.
<ScottK> o/
<skaet> thanks ogra_,   ScottK go
<ScottK> Sorry about breaking everything python3 yesterday.  It should all be good now thought.
<ScottK> ..
<ScottK> thought/though
<skaet> thanks ScottK
<skaet> I've got a couple of comments,  if no other hands.  ;)
<skaet> on the subject of bugs,   to continue on from stgrabers comments,  we're starting to run out of time for 12.04.1.
<skaet> so its important that bugs found, get to the developers as soon as possible.
<skaet> In working through the bugs over last few days,  Iâve been see several cases where the bug is not release targetted and prioritized correctly,  so the development teams are not seeing it in a timely manner,  which is a particular concern as weâre dealing with the 12.04.1 and quantal development bugs right now.
<skaet> .
<skaet> As a reminder, we are using the tag "rls-q-incoming" to signal a bug needs to be looked at by the development teams for inclusion in the release.  If the development team is going to fix it,  it will be targetted to the series, and possibly a specific milestone.
<skaet> These nominated incoming bugs can be found: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html.   Goal here is to keep this report as empty as possible.
<skaet> The bugs that the development teams are committed to fixing can be found here:
<skaet> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> (no incoming tag, and targetted to quantal gets a bug on this list)
<skaet> For those bugs targetted to quantal that there isn't a plan in place to fix, the tag 'rls-q-notfixing' will be on the bug,  and they'll show up in:
<skaet> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-notfixing-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> For those bugs that its important to fix for 12.04.1,  please make sure the bug is targetted/nominated to the precise series, and milestoned to 12.04.1 - that will get it on the development team thatâs focusing on 12.04.1âs radar.
<skaet> If you have any questions,  feel free to ping me.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> Any one have reservations about cjwatsonâs requested test days for the launchpad queue upload processing code next week?  (7/16 2100 -> 7/19 2100)   If no one comments before the end of the meeting,  that will be the plan.
<skaet> .
<Daviey> sounds reasonable to me.
<skaet> coolio
<seb128> works for desktop
<stgraber> +1
<skaet> ok,  I'll move on for now.
<skaet> ..
<cjwatson> Great, thanks - I'll try to make things as non-disruptive as possible.  Archive admins, once again, please make sure to tell me about any problems you see
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> popey,  when is the next drop targetted for 12.04.1?
<skaet> (or seb128,  if you know)
<seb128> skaet, next week
<popey> sorry, yup
<seb128> the SRU got started to be prepared this week
<seb128> we are trying to remind popey and friends that we need that SRU regularly, they promised it will come soon ;-)
<seb128> popey, right? ;-)
<popey> correct
<skaet> popey,  is there a plan visible somewhere for the drops anticipated for quantal and 12.04.1?
<popey> hmm, no. Will fix that.
<skaet> thanks popey.  :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> seb128,  fair number of bugs are showing up in the desktop section for quantal, http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> which ones are the desktop team going to be focusing on fixing?
 * skaet doesn't expect an answer now... ;)
<seb128> skaet, we expect to fix all of those ;-)
<seb128> skaet, the list is not that long if you consider that desktop team is ~15 people
<seb128> ..
<skaet> heh, ok.   :)  lets see how it looks next week.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> balloons,  what is the status of the accessibility testing requested?
<skaet> do you need help reaching out to that community?
<stgraber> 1~
<stgraber> oops :)
<seb128> our list is not longer that foundation's or kernel's ones on that page though
<seb128> ..
<balloons> skaet, I spoke with seb128 and I simply put out a heads up on it..
<skaet> balloons,  any feedback?
<balloons> there wasn't anything in particular to test beyond being on the lookout for weirdness from what I understand
<skaet> did anyone do some accessibility specific tests on them?
<balloons> feedback is it appears like nothing major broke yet  :-p I didn't hear anything negative.
<balloons> That said, I don't know how the accessibility tests are/where affected
 * skaet was hoping that some of the broken things got better actually....
<balloons> since I'm talking, I'm still in process of getting info on what's happening with unity testing this cycle
<balloons> but regression testing will happen alongside that I suspect
<balloons> ..
<skaet> seb128,  could you ask TheMuso to put together a list of tests worth focusing on for accessibility, so we can get that a bit more directed?
<seb128> can do
<seb128> ACTION: to ask TheMuso to put together a list of tests worth focusing on for accessibility
<skaet> Thanks  seb128.  :)
<seb128> or how that work?
<seb128> I got the syntax wrong?
<skaet> #action:  seb128 to ask TheMuso to put together a list of tests worth focusing on for accessibility
<meetingology> ACTION: :  seb128 to ask TheMuso to put together a list of tests worth focusing on for accessibility
<seb128> skaet, thanks
<seb128> ..
<skaet> popey,  do you have any guidance for balloons?  ^
 * popey looks
<popey> i see no questions :S
<popey> oh, i see
<skaet> maybe I misinterpreted,  but thought that balloons was looking for info on what needs to be tested for unity this cycle.
<balloons> skaet, yes, popey and I have been playing tag
<balloons> but we'll work it out
<popey> I'll catch up with balloons after this meeting about it
<popey> balloons, lets have a hangout in a bit
<popey> ..
<skaet> popey,  coolio,   summary might be useful to others as well, so if you could publish it somewhere that would be good.  :)
<popey> once I know, you'll know :)
<skaet> :)
<balloons> skaet, yea we can post a summary to release lit
<balloons> *list
<skaet> perfect.  :)   Thanks!
<skaet> ..
 * skaet looks for hands?
<balloons> o/
<skaet> go ahead balloons
<skaet> or were you just showing me a hand.  ;)
<balloons> I also wanted to mention, I know now is the time for feature and new application stuff to land. So please let me know if you want/need any testing around what's landing. We have a nice setup with the package tracker now and the community is ready to go :-)
<balloons> skaet, lol..
<balloons> ..
<skaet> thanks balloons.   :)
<gema> o/
<skaet> go gema
<gema> we seem to be having lots of problems with automated tests. Some of them are due to the code, some others due to environment, I'd like everyone to be aware that this is the case
<gema> and put special care on not breaking things if posible
<gema> at least until we are out of the woods
<gema> ..
<skaet> thanks gema.
<skaet> +1 from me on that sentiment.   Be nice for things to get solid again.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> ok,  I think that's it for the questions and comments for this meeting.
<ScottK> 0/
<skaet> heh
<skaet> just caught me on the endmeeting.... go ScottK
<ScottK> In yesterday's meeting I forgot to mention we've got a Qt SRU that'll get uploaded today or tomorrow.
<ScottK> ..
<stgraber> ScottK: good to know, thanks
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> thanks ScottK.
<skaet> ..
<cjwatson> gema: I think I have a fix for the most notorious of the desktop failures, FWIW.  At least once I debug the bugs in the bug-fix :-)
<gema> cjwatson: many thanks :DDDD
<seb128> cjwatson, \o/
<skaet> Thanks ogra_, roadmr, brendand, arosales, seb128, popey, cjwatson, stgraber, ScottK, balloons, Daviey, gema, pgraner
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jul 13 15:45:57 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-13-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-13-15.00.html
<seb128> skaet, thanks
<arosales> thanks for chairing skaet
<roadmr> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks skaet !
<gema> thanks skaet !
 * balloons does a handstand of gratitude
<skaet> nice note to end the meeting on fact wise cjwatson.  :)
<stgraber> thanks!
<gema> skaet: that bug has been a pain all week, I am starting the weekend happy thanks to cjwatson :D
<cjwatson> Also, if it's what I think it is, I was right that reverting wouldn't have helped; it looks to have been a hard-to-spot race in our fix for bug 1020574, which was equally severe.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020574 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "SystemError: Broken pipe while installing language packs" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020574
<seb128> cjwatson, yeah, reverting has a limit, the point where the "let's revert" should have happened there is to revert the python-apt upload which created the issue, though it was not really practical
<cjwatson> Except it was actually apt.
<seb128> cjwatson, I think in practice the current way out is the best one, though it's suboptimal it took a week
<cjwatson> And that involved unwinding an ABI change.
<seb128> cjwatson, but not a lot we can do
<seb128> cjwatson, there is only so far we can get on being stable in unstable series imho
<cjwatson> TBH my mistake was mostly just not trying hard enough to reproduce it.  It hadn't occurred to me that turning on debugging would have made it harder to reproduce.
<cjwatson> And I suspect running it in parallel with some test sbuild runs helped too.
<seb128> races are tricky like that ;-)
<cjwatson> Also, until about an hour ago I had no idea whether it was related to the fix following last week's apt change.
<cjwatson> Reverting is all well and good when the chain of cause and effect is clear.
<cjwatson> But we have a complex stack and it often isn't.
<seb128> right
<seb128> I agree, in such cases the easier way out is just to try to figure what the damn bug is and fix it
<cjwatson> exactly
<ogra_> instead of spending a days work to revert ...
<cjwatson> By the time you've identified cause, you near as damnit have a fix
<cjwatson> (For example, at earlier stages in the investigation I had good reason to suspect a recent udev upload, which turned out to be entirely innocent.)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-08
<mdeslaur> \o
<mdeslaur>  o/
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o/
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  8 16:35:04 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Christian Kuersteiner (ckuerste) provided debdiffs to lucid, precise, to fix libopenid-ruby (LP: #1190491). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1190491 in ruby-openid (Ubuntu Quantal) "XML denial of service vulnerability" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190491
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> last week did various !AppArmor work in support of click packages, application isolation and the SDK. Some more to do there. Uploading patches to !AppArmor today (two uploads for saucy for now-- one with and without apache 2.4 patches
<jdstrand> I have several pending updates I am trying to get out too
<jdstrand> and patch piloting got deferred to this week
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I just published raptor2 updates
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I'm working on some ruby updates at the moment
<mdeslaur> and have some other updates to test
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor this week
<sbeattie> I'm also working on the SDK/click stuff.
<sbeattie> I also need to review the bits that jdstrand has worked on.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much the focus for me this week. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm currently finishing up a lot of changes to the apparmor regression tests for dbus
<tyhicks> One of the changes addresses hangs that jdstrand experienced last week on a loaded system
<tyhicks> I'll be working to drive the dbus syntax to completion
<tyhicks> I wasn't able to get to any of the eCryptfs maintainership duties that I mentioned last week, so those will have to be done this week
<tyhicks> I think that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> well there will be some syntax completion work this week
<jjohansen> an apparmor meeting to prep for
<jjohansen> and I will be continuing to work on my apparmor wi for July
<jjohansen> I think that is it from me, sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm going to finish review of aa-easyprof changes, apparmor 2.8.2 release, and MIR audits this week
<jdstrand> sarnold: sorry for another big patch :) I think that may be it for a little bit anyway
<sarnold> apparmor 2.8.2 relies upon sbeattie or jjohansen to help walk me through it, but I think we wanted it released before tomorrow's apparmor meeting, so it'll probably happen today :)
<sarnold> jdstrand: oh cool :)
<sbeattie> sarnold: I'll help guide you along for 2.8.2
<sarnold> ah, no chrisccoulson, jdstrand, back to you :)
<sarnold> sbeattie: thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/heimdal.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/hostapd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/flatnuke.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tinymce.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openvas-server.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  8 16:56:09 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-08-16.35.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-08-16.35.html
<tyhicks> thanks!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<mdz> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  8 19:58:35 2013 UTC.  The chair is mdz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<soren> o/
 * stgraber waves
<mdz> #topic action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review
<mdz> I don't see any actions recorded from the previous meeting. correct?
<mdz> #topic Discussion and vote on the development series alias name
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Discussion and vote on the development series alias name
<mdz> following up from the previous meeting
<mdz> current proposals are "rolling" (preferred by Rick) and "next' (preferred by the TB)
<stgraber> I don't think we gave any direct action indeed, though there's a sort of action for cjwatson to implement the LP code for the series alias
<mdz> Rick doesn't seem to be around
<mdz> IIRC the reason we deferred was to get his input
<cjwatson> I mailed him earlier today, but he's just back from holiday and may be snowed under still
<cjwatson> I don't think there's a point in revisiting without him, since the point was indeed to reconcile
<mdz> ok
<cjwatson> perhaps we should try mail
<cjwatson> in any case:
<stgraber> I also directly Cced him on the minutes but I haven't heard anything back from him either
<mdz> I recommend that if the topic comes around again in 2 weeks and he's not here, we proceed anyway
<cjwatson> there's an implementation issue wgrant raised when I started trying to get database changes made in support of this, with respect to PPAs
<cjwatson> I need to hash that out with him
<cjwatson> however William is now himself off on holiday
<cjwatson> so this is blocked for a while in any event
<cjwatson> I have the rest of the code written, so will be pretty close once that's sorted
<mdz> ok
<mdz> even if it's not blocking, it's not good to keep this open for too long
<mdz> so I'd like to wrap it next time regardless
<mdz> fair?
<cjwatson> agreed
<mdz> #topic Discussion and vote on OpenSSL as a system library
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Discussion and vote on OpenSSL as a system library
<stgraber> fine with me, I'll be at a sprint in London for our next meeting, but should still be able to attend
<mdz> thread: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-June/001653.html
<mdz> previous thread: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-May/001602.html
<cjwatson> so, I haven't had a chance to reply properly to kees on this, but I finally managed to articulate my objection to his line of argument just now when preparing for this meeting
<cjwatson> it is this: his line of argument could be used to justify constructing derived works that combine the GPL with any other free-but-GPL-incompatible licence, as long as it's far enough embedded into our system
<cjwatson> and I just can't reconcile that with my understanding of the spirit of the GPL, as presented by the FSF
<mdz> I think in many cases there's a divergence between the intent of the FSF and the intent of the copyright holder
<mdz> and it seems fair to favor the latter
<cjwatson> sure, and I'm happy to accept an explicit statement from the licensor, as I've mentioned before
<cjwatson> however, we are talking here about the fallback case where there isn't an explicit statement
<mdz> we're talking about GPLv2, yes?
<cjwatson> v2 in one case, v3 in the other.  I forget which was which.
<cjwatson> if mongodb/squid/whatever issue an explicit statement clarifying the intent of their licence, and that covers the GPLed code involved, I'm more than happy to honour that
<cjwatson> that much I think is not in dispute
<mdz> agreed
<mdz> so there seems to be no practical problem on the table (anymore)?
<cjwatson> but, for the rest, an interpretation where it can be freely linked with openssl is not within *my* understanding of the spirit of the GPL, so I couldn't vote for allowing that
<cjwatson> well, except that neither has actually got round to issuing such a statement AFAIK
<mdz> ScottK requested a statement on this regardless of any specific case
<soren> mdz: I understand there's a decent chance the copyright holder didn't intend to prevent us from linking their code with openssl. However, if our reading of the license says that it's not permitted, I think we're in very dangerous territory by wholesale assuming that the copyright holder didn't mean to have that particular bit of their license to us apply.
<cjwatson> my understanding was that mongodb said they were planning to but hadn't yet, and some squid developers had been making vague noises, but nothing determinative
<mdz> soren, agreed
<cjwatson> I respect the alternate readings that Dave and Kees and others have put forward; I just don't agree with them :)
 * kees is here, sorry I'm late
<cjwatson> http://gplv3.fsf.org/wiki/index.php/Compatible_licenses#GPLv2-incompatible_licenses explicitly lists the FSF's opinion that the OpenSSL licence is incompatible with the GPLv2
<cjwatson> so I have an extremely hard time saying that we could assume the contrary in the absence of an explicit statement
<mdz> I'm inclined to agree
<kees> hm, given openssl is explicitly called out there, then yeah.
<cjwatson> similarly on http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html
 * soren too
<mdz> but I'm willing to be pragmatic with the statement from the copyright holders
<cjwatson> sorry, http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpenSSL
<cjwatson> mdz: right, me too, absolutely
<mdz> e.g. an email is fine, I don't see it as necessary to have them change all of the copyright notices
<soren> I wish it weren't so, as it obviously is a pain in the "#Â¤%, but that's just how it is.
<kees> my rationale was mostly from the perspective of "since this is vague"... but that would make it NOT vague. :P
<kees> although, I still wonder one thing...
<cjwatson> soren: Yep, I entirely agree that this position is inconvenient - I just don't think we get to read licences for our convenience
<kees> there's no question it is incompat... but can it be dynamically linked?
<soren> cjwatson: Precisely.
<kees> i.e. clearly can't _include_ openssl in a piece of software. but link?
<mdz> kees, that comes down to the interpretation of a derived work
<cjwatson> kees: The FSF's position on that is clear elsewhere; dynamically linking forms a derivative work of the two
<cjwatson> Again, I would be happy to accept the overriding opinion of a licensor (copyright holder)
<cjwatson> But it makes sense to me that if you've written software such that it requires dynamically linking against OpenSSL to actually work, then it's a derived work ...
<kees> how can linking be derived? the point of shared objects was to create API boundries.
<soren> Naturally. The license is the copyright holder's terms for other people's use of their software. Their interpretation will always take precedence.
<kees> derived is "and then I added a new encryption scheme to openssl" not "and then I opened an https connection"
<cjwatson> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLStaticVsDynamic
<soren> kees: When you consume libraries, your work builds on top of their functionality.
<cjwatson> I *think* this has been tested in court although [citation needed]
<kees> so "combined work" != "derived work"
<soren> kees: That constitutes "derived work" in my book.
<kees> so, "use LGPL" is the other answer, I guess.
<mdz> there is room for interpretation there, and maybe even different rulings in different jurisdictions
<kees> but what about the exceptions to this that were made for non-free libc?
<cjwatson> That was because you couldn't run anything on those platforms at all without using the non-free libc
<cjwatson> That being the point of the system library exception
<mdz> yes
<cjwatson> But there are alternatives to using OpenSSL ...
<mdz> FSVO "alternative" :-)
<kees> heh, so if we kick gnutls out of the archive, we can link against openssl? :P
<cjwatson> I've never been convinced by trying to expand the scope of the system library exception, partly because it doesn't seem to fit the historical context of that exception
<cjwatson> Also
<kees> I would argue that the context still holds: when all examples of using crypto references openssl, when is the defacto standard, that kind of makes it a system library, imo
<cjwatson> In the case of the system library exception, you're using interfaces that have both free and non-free implementations - nothing about your program is inherently derived from the non-free thing
<cjwatson> But in the case of the OpenSSL APIs (as opposed to the crypto standards they implement), those are very definitely proprietary (in the sense of ownership) to OpenSSL
<kees> I think that stands for openssl too -- there is no other interface to swap into place.
<cjwatson> So the C library and OpenSSL are not comparable here
<cjwatson> If the GnuTLS stub for the OpenSSL APIs ever reached reasonable completion, then you could swap them freely and I think that changes the argument, not to mention the pragmatics
 * soren .oO{ What if all the time spent in different communities in different contexts discussing this particular problem had been put towards perfecting a libssl compatible wrapper for gnutls }
<kees> I disagree. All the examples and recommended implementations of crypto I've seen for new programmers, school texts, etc, all use openssl interfaces.
<cjwatson> But we just aren't there
<cjwatson> And those are therefore derivative of OpenSSL
<kees> soren: yeah, that would be nice, for sure.
<cjwatson> The OpenSSL people put substantial creativity into those interfaces - they aren't neutral things
<kees> I don't see libc being a neutral interface either. If "C Programming in the Unix Environment" shows me how to use "popen", and it's an exception, then I think "Secure Programming" showing how to use OpenSSL is very nearly the same.
<mdz> kees, I don't think the question is whether it's a de facto standard
<cjwatson> But popen has lots of implementations, many free
<kees> then why would there be an exception for the non-free ones?
<mdz> but whether it's a Major Component or part of a Major Component of Ubuntu
<cjwatson> If nobody else has managed to produce a sufficient replacement for OpenSSL, that *strengthens* OpenSSL's claim to have its licence respected properly
<kees> mdz: right, and I view crypto as an OS primitive.
<cjwatson> I do not
<cjwatson> It is not a required element
<mdz> The âSystem Librariesâ of an executable work include anything, other than the work as a whole, that (a) is included in the normal form of packaging a Major Component, but which is not part of that Major Component, and (b) serves only to enable use of the work with that Major Component, or to implement a Standard Interface for which an implementation is available to the public in source code form. A âMajor Componentâ, in this context, means a m
<mdz> ajor essential component (kernel, window system, and so on) of the specific operating system (if any) on which the executable work runs, or a compiler used to produce the work, or an object code interpreter used to run it.
<mdz> (GPLv3)
<cjwatson> mdz: (the wording is importantly different between v2 and v3; I analysed both in my original mail to the list about this)
<mdz> yes, just adding some context here
<kees> right, so that's why we differ in our conclusions. I believe crypto to be a Major Component, with OpenSSL being the defacto standard interface.
 * soren idly wonders how amazingly amputated Ubuntu would be without libssl
<cjwatson> In GPLv2, the business about "major components" pertains to distributing source, section 3, but does not affect the requirement to distribute the work as a whole under the same licence, section 2
<kees> soren: I'll let you know right after I sniff all your traffic.
<mdz> A "Standard Interface" means an interface that either is an official standard defined by a recognized standards body, or, in the case of interfaces specified for a particular programming language, one that is widely used among developers working in that language. [GPLv3]
<cjwatson> So IMO even invoking the system library exception does not save you for GPLv2
<soren> kees: *rimshot*
<kees> mdz: exactly. I actually think GPLv3 is MORE supportive of it.
<mdz> kees, yes, I agree there is more wiggle room in v3
<kees> soren: but that's one of many reasons I think it's a critical piece of the OS.
<mdz> in that particular definition
<mdz> but as cjwatson says, that's not the main issue in v2
<soren> I don't really think it matters whether it's an implementation of an official standard.
<mdz> that's one of two conditions, only one of which needs to be met
<soren> If there were some esoteric operating system whose basic API was entirely homegrown, I could write GPL software that runs on there without problems.
<kees> I absolutely understand where cjwatson is coming from. I just don't come to the same conclusions.
<mdz> can we defer to someone with the requisite legal expertise here, rather than armchairing it?
<soren> mdz: But it's fun!
<cjwatson> mdz: The FSF have published their analysis
<mdz> we're all clearly capable of putting forth coherent, logical arguments which contradict each other
<cjwatson> I don't see what we gain from trying to rebut the authors of the licence
<mdz> cjwatson, what are you referring to? something other than the license itself?
<kees> cjwatson: though I don't think they have published a statement that openssl is not a major component of ubuntu.
<cjwatson> kees: OpenSSL would have to be "included in the normal form of packaging a Major Component, but which is not part of that Major Component" to qualify
<cjwatson> mdz: Things like the license-list above
<mdz> despite the long, proud Debian tradition of debating license interpretations, I don't see this as part of the tech board's charter
<cjwatson> Well, I tried to reject it for ubuntu-archive, which is the normal body to interpret such things
<soren> mdz: Can you think of a more suitable, existing governing body for this?
<cjwatson> But it's been escalated
<stgraber> agreed, the FSF clearly lists the OpenSSL license as being incompatible without the extra clause so unless the copyright holder says otherwise (which they can and we should encourage them to when possible), I believe we should respect the license's author's interpretation
<mdz> so I don't think we'll come to a unanimous agreement here today
<cjwatson> Can we dispose of part of it?  I had the sense we were (mostly?) agreed that the situation with GPLv2 was clear
<stgraber> the TB is the normal escalation path from ubuntu-archive, so I have no problem with us making a call here, not sure what we'd gain in postponing it some more or trying to find somebody else to delegate to
<mdz> cjwatson, good point
<mdz> kees, can you concede the v2 piece?
<mdz> stgraber, this is a technical matter, but not within the discipline where we have expertise
<mdz> (with all due respect for cjwatson's experience with licensing)
<cjwatson> oh, merely an *experienced* armchair lawyer :P
<mdz> we are fundamentally reliant on third party analysis to make a reasonable call here
<cjwatson> no need for due-respect qualifiers :)
<mdz> whereas for technical matters pertaining to software engineering and suchlike, I would be comfortable with us being a primary source
<kees> mdz: I don't think I do, since GPLv3 was meant to clarify GPLv2, and GPLv3 (to me) supports OpenSSL being a Major Component.
<stgraber> mdz: sure, and I believe the various documents that have been linked and the various analysis on our mailing-list and others is sufficient for us to make a reasonable call
<cjwatson> kees: What about my point that the major component bit of GPLv2 is not sufficient to permit what people are trying to do?
<kees> stgraber: I don't disagree that trying to release KeesSSL (forked from OpenSSL) would mean it's not GPL compat.
<cjwatson> kees: It's confined to the source-distribution bit in section 3, while the must-distribute-work-as-a-whole-under-this-licence thing is in section 2 with no mention of the system library exception ...
<kees> cjwatson: I'm not sure I understood what you meant with it.
<mdz> kees, he means that there's no such exception which enables the distribution of the software under the terms of the GPL
<cjwatson> My objection to linking GPLv2 with OpenSSL is that I believe that forms a derived work as a whole, and v2 s. 2 says that the work as a whole must be licensed under the terms of the GPL
<mdz> there's only an exception to allow those components to be excluded from source code distribution
<kees> mdz: "the software" being OpenSSL or thing-dyn-linking-to-openssl ?
<cjwatson> And that the system library bit is an exception for s. 3 not s. 2
<mdz> kees, the derived work
<kees> I suck at arm-chair lawyering
<mdz> ok, so the options seem to be: 1. vote here and now, or 2. defer to an expert opinion
<mdz> any other options to put on the table?
<mdz> "keep arguing" is excluded ;-)
<mdz> it's been a month and no consensus has emerged
<kees> cjwatson: where in GPLv2 is the linking bit?
<stgraber> I unfortunately fear that 2. is == "keep arguing" and I agree we've argued enough about this :)
<mdz> stgraber, how so? I think we could easily agree on a law firm we could trust to give us an informed opinion
<mdz> but we have another topic on the agenda and only 15 minutes left
<mdz> I for one have a meeting directly after
<cjwatson> kees: v2 doesn't specify, it relies on copyright law interpretation to define what's a derived work
<cjwatson> kees: v3 clarified this to "Corresponding Source includes interface definition files associated with source files for the work, and the source code for shared libraries and dynamically linked subprograms that the work is specifically designed to require, ..."
<kees> cjwatson: the faq seems to imply v2 has a system library exception. https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLIncompatibleLibs
<cjwatson> covering source code distribution
<cjwatson> oh, found another interesting thing
<cjwatson> http://www.lawseminars.com/materials/08OPSMA/opsma%20m%20fontana%2010-29%20new%20up.pdf
<cjwatson> from one of the authors of the GPLv3; says 'Debian unsuccessfully sought FSF opinion that OpenSSL was a GPLv3 "System Library"'
<kees> interesting
<mdz> #vote +1 means vote here and now, -1 means defer to an expert third party opinion, +0 means do nothing and leave things as they are (i.e. somewhat ambiguous)
<meetingology> Please vote on: +1 means vote here and now, -1 means defer to an expert third party opinion, +0 means do nothing and leave things as they are (i.e. somewhat ambiguous)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<meetingology> +1 means vote here and now, -1 means defer to an expert third party opinion, +0 means do nothing and leave things as they are (i.e. somewhat ambiguous) received from mdz
<ScottK> FWIW, right now we have at least two archive admins with a different view of what's permissible and if something is accepted into the archive shouldn't depend on who does the review.
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<kees> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kees
<mdz> weird, meetingology seems to have interpreted my vote request as a vote
<cjwatson> and has the context that the v3 redraft of the system library exception was motivated by making Nexenta legal
<soren> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from soren
<mdz> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from mdz
<cjwatson> +1   I feel I have *read* enough expert third party opinions and would rather get it over wish
<meetingology> +1   I feel I have *read* enough expert third party opinions and would rather get it over wish received from cjwatson
<cjwatson> *with
<mdz> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: +1 means vote here and now, -1 means defer to an expert third party opinion, +0 means do nothing and leave things as they are (i.e. somewhat ambiguous)
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<mdz> ok, so we vote
<mdz> so what do we specifically want to decide? whether an exception is required to have GPL (v2 or v3) software link with OpenSSL in Ubuntu?
<kees> I think that summarizes it, yes.
<cjwatson> we should vote on our interpretation of v2 and v3 separately IMO
<kees> agreed
<mdz> we're all in agreement that it's cool with an exception, and that the exception doesn't need to be shipped with the software, correct?
<kees> shouldn't the exception be in debian/copyright though?
<soren> Yes.
<cjwatson> I'd say the packager ought to put it in debian/copyright, but I'm willing to trust an e-mail, yes
<cjwatson> (plenty of precedent for that, including at least one of my own packages ;-) )
<mdz> proposed motion to vote on: An explicit exception is required in order for GPLv2 licensed software to link (statically or dynamically) with OpenSSL in Ubuntu
<mdz> ?
<kees> seems like having the exception living somewhere in HEAD is sufficient, in the source better, in debian/copyright best.
<stgraber> yep, I'm fine with that, it's how we've mostly been doing things and what the license author recommends (not the separate e-mail part, but I'm fine with that if it's in debian/copyright)
<soren> mdz: Sounds good to me.
<cjwatson> Is there any dispute about the static case?
<kees> mdz: yeah, wording on that vote seems good
<kees> I don't dispute the static case at all
<cjwatson> We didn't discuss that above
<mdz> ok, removing that then
<mdz> #vote An explicit exception is required in order for GPLv2 licensed software to dynamically link with OpenSSL in Ubuntu
<meetingology> Please vote on: An explicit exception is required in order for GPLv2 licensed software to dynamically link with OpenSSL in Ubuntu
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<soren> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from soren
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<mdz> I didn't want the vote to imply that static linking was OK
<mdz> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mdz
<kees> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from kees
<cjwatson> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjwatson
<mdz> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: An explicit exception is required in order for GPLv2 licensed software to dynamically link with OpenSSL in Ubuntu
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<mdz> #vote An explicit exception is required in order for GPLv3 licensed software to dynamically link with OpenSSL in Ubuntu
<meetingology> Please vote on: An explicit exception is required in order for GPLv3 licensed software to dynamically link with OpenSSL in Ubuntu
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<mdz> (s/2/3/)
<kees> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from kees
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<mdz> +0 I don't think I have studied this one enough
<meetingology> +0 I don't think I have studied this one enough received from mdz
<cjwatson> +1 - kees did come close to persuading me to at least abstain, but the presentation from Red Hat's counsel has re-convinced me
<meetingology> +1 - kees did come close to persuading me to at least abstain, but the presentation from Red Hat's counsel has re-convinced me received from cjwatson
<soren> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from soren
<mdz> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: An explicit exception is required in order for GPLv3 licensed software to dynamically link with OpenSSL in Ubuntu
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<mdz> ScottK, satisfactory?
<ScottK> mdz: Definitely.  I think that's quite clear.
<mdz> #topic Review our current "provisional" Micro Release Exceptions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review our current "provisional" Micro Release Exceptions
<ScottK> Thanks for taking on this difficult issue.
<kees> while those slides were very interesting, I still feel that we're a different distro from both RH and debian.
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<cjwatson> Thanks; and hope nobody was offended by robust debate :-)
<mdz> Provisional exceptions:
<mdz> Nova, Glance, Horizon, Keystone (to unblock SRU on 2012-06-25)
<mdz> Cinder, Quantum on 2012-12-03
<mdz> LibreOffice (2012-06-25)
<mdz> Mesa (2012-07-23 - SPECIAL CASE: piglit test suite is not in-tree, needs to be run on real hardware)
<mdz> vlc (2012-07-23)
<mdz> ceph for Ubuntu >= 12.10 and ceph upstream LTS releases 2013-02-25
<mdz> libdrm for Ubuntu 12.10. Backport of the 13.04 version to match that backported in 12.04 as part of lts-raring enablement.
<kees> yeah, thanks for this. I never expected to convince everyone, but I'm glad to have had the chance to lay out my thoughts. :)
<stgraber> so I granted the libdrm one as a one-time thing, I believe mlankhorst did that backport and so we can now remove it from the list
<cjwatson> The server MREs seem to be going fairly smoothly from what I've seen
<kees> to review the pMRE list, I'd be curious to see how many times they've been SRUed since the pMRE, and how many regressions were seen.
<mdz> stgraber, agreed, you can go ahead and remove that if you like
<mdz> kees, yes, that would be useful
<mdz> I don't have that information to hand
<mdz> and suspect it would take some legwork to assemble
<stgraber> mdz: done
<kees> bdmurray: do you happen to have any off-the-top-of-your-head thoughts on these pMRE packages's SRU behavior so far?
<cjwatson> Should be minable easily out of /ubuntu/+source/foo/+publishinghistory
<cjwatson> There've certainly been "some" of each of the server ones; I don't immediately recall regressions there ...
<bdmurray> kees: with my work on phasing updates I have a report of possible regressions about packages released to -updates
<cjwatson> bdmurray++
<bdmurray> however, since some of the packages are server related and those don't automatically go to errors it may not very helpful
<bdmurray> here is the report
<bdmurray> http://people.canonical.com/~brian/tmp/phased-updates.html
<mdz> we're out of time
<mdz> I don't recall the reason for reviewing these; presumably just general housecleaning?
<mdz> seems like we could take the analysis offline and probably resolve these by mail
<kees> mdz: yes
<cjwatson> I think so; it ought to be done every so often
<kees> mdz: agreed, thanks!
<mdz> so someone could cross-reference bdmurray's analysis with the list of pMREs and send the results to the mailing list
<cjwatson> mail> agreed
<mdz> any volunteers?
<kees> mdz: I will do that
<mdz> kees, thank you
<cjwatson> thank you!
<stgraber> thanks!
<mdz> #action kees to cross-reference phased-updates.html with pMREs and send analysis to technical-board@
<meetingology> ACTION: kees to cross-reference phased-updates.html with pMREs and send analysis to technical-board@
<mdz> #topic next chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: next chair
<mdz> so stgraber and I swapped
<cjwatson> I guess that means it's probably me?
<mdz> pitti? soren?
<cjwatson> 22nd - I'll be at the releng sprint in London
<cjwatson> not totally sure I'll be around
<mdz> pitti would be next in nick order
<mdz> oh, sorry, confused
<mdz> I was going to be last time, right?
<mdz> and stgraber filled in
<stgraber> yep
<cjwatson> oh, that would still make it pitti then I guess
<mdz> so I think pitti next, then soren, then cjwatson
<cjwatson> right
<mdz> #action pitti to chair next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: pitti to chair next meeting
<cjwatson> if we remember
<mdz> #topic EOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: EOB
<mdz> anything incredibly urgent?
<mdz> er AOB
<cjwatson> sleep
<mdz> once
<cjwatson> :-)
<mdz> twice
<mdz> thrice
<mdz> thanks, all
<mdz> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  8 21:04:09 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-08-19.58.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-08-19.58.html
<cjwatson> thanks mr chair
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-09
<Sarvatt> soren, mdz, stgraber: just noticed xorg-server isn't on the micro release exception wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions) but http://www.bryceharrington.org/files/xserver-mre.txt happened in a TB meeting? it probably fell through the cracks?
<Sarvatt> not sure if it should be in approved or provisional so dont want to edit the wiki directly
<stgraber> Sarvatt: added
<Sarvatt> stgraber: much appreciated!
<logothing> Hi
 * stgraber waves
 * ogra_ shores
<stgraber> ondra has a conflicting meeting but we had a quick chat so I have a status update for him
<ogra_> there seems to be a new error in the recovery images that should rather be tagged as warning or info ...
<ogra_> E:Can't open /cache/recovery/ubuntu_command
<ogra_> it seems to do no harm but people seeing it get scared
<stgraber> heh, yeah, that probably shouldn't be an error as we support both /cache/recovery/ubuntu_command and /cache/recovery/command so neither should cause an error
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> stgraber, hmm, so is it only us two ?
<stgraber> ogra_: I pinged barry in #ubuntu-devel, no response so far...
<ogra_> yup, saw that
<stgraber> waiting a couple more minutes, if he doesn't show up, it'll be a very short meeting :)
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> well, not much to report from my side anyway ... flipped is default, we're working on getting the ports over
<stgraber> hey barry
<barry> hey, sorry for lateness
<ogra_> np :)
<stgraber> ok, so we've got everyone who got actions from last week, so let's start :)
<stgraber> last week: stgraber trying to get image update code completed this week; ogra/sergiusens/rsalveti flipping images today; ondra/rsalveti/sergiusens/stgraber looking at including static gpg build w/o NEON in the recovery initrd; barry pinging design team on update UI; barry wrapping up download service API with mandel
<stgraber> on my side, I now have an import-cdimage script on nusakan which imports and convert the dailies into system-image
<stgraber> I'm aware of at least one bug in my code but it only triggers when we do more than one build in a day, so I'm waiting for the next occurence to fix it
<ogra_> do you plan to start building them parallel ?
<stgraber> ogra_: the script simply converts your dailies into system-image compatible files directly on nusakan, that way we don't slow down the build process (it can be done at any time), doing that directly on the livefs buildds would add around 45min to the build process because of xz
<stgraber> ogra_: so we'll just start building them clean from the source once we have the new buildds and/or can retire cdimage for our images
<ogra_> retire cdimage ?!?
 * ogra_ doubts there are any such plans
<stgraber> I've also been testing that on my Nexus4, the images themselves work, my basic upgrader code in recovery works too, the only problem is the client failing to download the files
<ogra_> and even with the highbank builders xz wont be actually fast
<ogra_> i think we should leave that bit to cdimage on x86
<barry> stgraber: i hope that will go away when we switch to the new download service, though it's still worth investigating the timeouts
<stgraber> ogra_: why would we keep stuff published in 3 different formats on two different web servers when all the supported devices (those we publish on cdimage today) use system-image?
<ogra_> adding time to the builds is pretty awkward from the point on where we cant really upgrade packages to get fixes in
<stgraber> barry: currently it means I have no way of testing the client or the upgrader, so I'd really want this to be bumped as a high priority and not wait for the download service
<ogra_> you cant feed the system-image server from cdimage ?
<stgraber> barry: FWIW I ran the client around 50 times yesterday (in a while loop) and it never succeeded, but downloaded over 10GB, so it's not a network issue
<ogra_> i would simply like to keep the builds centralized
<ogra_> and have changes to the build system be picked up automatically, which the cdimage setup guarantees
<barry> stgraber: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image/+bug/1199361
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199361 in Ubuntu system image "Built-in downloads time out" [High,Triaged]
 * ogra_ thought cjwatson's cdimage rewrite in python was exactly in preparation for such stuff
<stgraber> ogra_: I'm currently feeding builds to system-image from cdimage but at least in my head and in Steve and lool's too, it's a temporary thing, once we switch phablet-flash over to using system-image, we're planning to stop publishing to cdimage
<barry> stgraber: anything you can add to the bug report will help, but note that LP: #1156704 is blocking further progress
<stgraber> ogra_: cjwatson was perfectly aware that system-image would eventually replace that code
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1156704 in python-virtualenv (Ubuntu) "Virtualenv breaks if python-configparser is installed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156704
<ogra_> stgraber, i dont care where we publish, but i do massively care where and how we build
<stgraber> ogra_: anyway, the livefs builds will still be managed by cdimage, it's just the publishing that'll happen in /srv/system-image.ubuntu.com/www/full instead of /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/www/full/
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> <ogra_> you cant feed the system-image server from cdimage ?
<stgraber> ogra_: both cdimage and system-image are managed from nusakan by the cdimage account
<ogra_> that answers this :)
<ogra_> yeah, no issue with that
<ogra_> i understood you wanted to build on the system image server :)
<ogra_> (duplicating cdimage etc)
<stgraber> ogra_: well, it depends on what we call "cdimage" :) I was saying it's a waste to import from cdimage.ubuntu.com/... when we can just directly publish to system-image.ubuntu.com, but yeah, same server ;)
<stgraber> good, so sounds like we agree then :)
<ogra_> yeah, i dont care what the webserver is in the end :)
<ogra_> we do :)
<stgraber> barry: can't you just do your work in a chroot without python-configparser?
<barry> stgraber: this blocks the test suite
<stgraber> barry: how so? I thought that was caused by python-configparser being installed, why would it also fail when it's not?
<barry> stgraber: well, i guess a chroot without that package would be workable but only in the short term.
<stgraber> sure, the virtualenv bug is a problem and needs to be fixed, I was just saying that it's not a blocker for us, system-image doesn't build-dep or dep on anything that brings python-configparser
<stgraber> so as long as your run tox in an environment that doesn't have python-configparser, you're fine
<stgraber> barry: did you make any progress on the download service API with mandel?
<stgraber> I guess that was API specing rather than implementing, right?
<barry> stgraber: yes.  he updated the wiki with the dbus api spec for the service and i think it looks good.  he's working on the implementation and packaging, the latter which i've offered to help if needed.  i want to get the service into the archive asap
<stgraber> ok, cool
<barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/Downloader
<stgraber> so notes: stgraber => work on the upgrader code, test/integrate the client in dailies, fix bugs on system-image; barry => fix a downloader timeout bug, update default config, update client in the archive, help mandel with packging the DL service; ogra => fixing issues with flipped, helping ports move to the new model; ondra => update recovery to make missing ubuntu_command a non-error
<stgraber> missed anything?
<ogra_> nope
<stgraber> barry: ?
<barry> lgtm
<stgraber> perfect
<stgraber> thanks to the two of you for attending
<ogra_> :)
<barry> :)
<ogra_> thanks for running stgraber
<ogra_> and good luck with your paperwork now :)
<barry> indeed! :)
<stgraber> haha, yeah, nothing I like more than waiting in line at a government office...
<yolanda> hi all
<yolanda> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul  9 16:00:13 2013 UTC.  The chair is yolanda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<Daviey> o/
<yolanda> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<yolanda> arosales to carry out post-meeting procedure (minutes, etc) documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase for meeting of 25 June
<yolanda> any update?
<jamespage> o/
<roaksoax> o/
<yolanda> Daviey to speak to Percona about Saucy inclusion
<Daviey> yolanda: 25 June still not done.  I'll work with arosales after this
<Daviey> yolanda: I haven't spoken to percona this week.  Will do THIS week
<yolanda> ok, let's leave as pending then
<yolanda> any other pending topics?
<Daviey> Nope
<yolanda> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Saucy Development
<yolanda> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<yolanda> #subtopic Release Bugs
<yolanda> Daviey, any update with that?
<arosales> sorry, joined a little late
<arosales> here now
<Daviey> First.. the Release Schedule
<Daviey> DebianImportFreeze / Alpha2ish
<Daviey> Would be good to be up to date on sync's and merges for then.
<Daviey> rbasak has graciously fixed my delta report
<arosales> yolanda, I think rbasak put in a new process that he is carrying forward. I will ensure the wiki has the minutes from my chair'ing for historical reasons
<Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~rbasak/delta.html
<rbasak> Note: I haven't cronned that. I generated it earlier.
<Daviey> We should try over this next week to reduce our delta with Debian
<yolanda> rbasak, are you doing something automatic?
<Daviey> #ACTION rbasak to land delta report to lp:ubuntu-reports, Daviey to deploy
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to land delta report to lp:ubuntu-reports, Daviey to deploy
<rbasak> yolanda: I intend to, but I haven't done it yet.
<rbasak> ack
<yolanda> i could help a bit with merges and syncs this week also
<jamespage> Daviey, +1 to that
<Daviey> Shall we look at, http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<Daviey> bug 1124384
<ubottu> bug 1124384 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Saucy) "Configuration reload clears event that others jobs may be waiting on" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124384
<Daviey> smoser: Are we expecting a cloud-init upload soon?
<smoser> yes.
<Daviey> I noticed that Debian is carrying a delta
<smoser> that one is fixed in raring ..
<smoser> oh?
<Daviey> smoser: http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs//main/c/cloud-init/cloud-init_0.7.2-1_changelog
<Daviey> Might be worth checking if we can fold anything interesting
<Daviey> bug 1196921
<ubottu> bug 1196921 in vim (Ubuntu Saucy) "updating packages to lua5.2 in main" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196921
<smoser> yeah. thanks.
<Daviey> rbasak: You had thoguths on transitions such as this.  Is it worth just uploading a new rrdtool and see what breaks?
<Daviey> (i feel evil suggesting that)
<Daviey> adam_g: bug 1183634 ?
<ubottu> bug 1183634 in cheetah (Ubuntu Saucy) "cheetah pkg does not depend on markdown, but egg requires.txt does" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1183634
<rbasak> Sorry poor connection here
<adam_g> Daviey, progressing, slowly. security team just started moving on the python-markdown MIR
<adam_g> Daviey, should be good once thats done
<Daviey> Super!
<Daviey> I see they last touched it 20 hours ago.. so making progress
<Daviey> bug 1170393, jamespage
<ubottu> bug 1170393 in quantum (Ubuntu Saucy) "Quantum services should be respawned by upstart if necessary" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170393
<jamespage> catching up on openstack this week
<rbasak> Daviey: I don't follow. It looks like we're up-to-date with Debian on rrdtool?
<Daviey> rbasak: No, that isn't the problem.. there is a lua transition needed, and that package is marked as depending on it
<Daviey> Feels very similar to the ruby and mysql issues we had.. Keeps getting deferred, then someone does it blindly.. and that prompts issues to be flushed out.
<rbasak> Daviey: oh, so a no change rebuild?
<Daviey> rbasak: yah
<rbasak> I have less objection to someone blindly doing a no change rebuild, since that shouldn't introduce any new issues that didn't already exist
<rbasak> If I were doing it I'd test it first though
<Daviey> ok
<Daviey> zul: Do you know why apache2 is still held?
<Daviey> (saucy-proposed)
<rbasak> There's a big pile of breakages it would cause. I looked today - it looks like almost everything is waiting on Debian
<zul> Daviey:  yeah one packaging is blocking it, its being fixed in debian
<Daviey> zul: which package?
<rbasak> zul: it looked like many more than one to me
<rbasak> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt
<zul> Daviey:  dont remember off the top of my head
<rbasak> I counted 62 source packages in there
<zul> uwsgi
<Daviey> Does someone want to volunteer to get to grips of proposed migration issues this week?
<Daviey> I'm seeing more server seed issues on excuses.html than we'd like
<Daviey> zul: Fancy it  ^^ ?
<zul> Daviey:  sure
<zul> Daviey:  not really but ill do it
<Daviey> #ACTION zul has willfully volunteered to review and document what is blocking server related saucy-proposed migration excuses, with joy.
<meetingology> ACTION: zul has willfully volunteered to review and document what is blocking server related saucy-proposed migration excuses, with joy.
<yolanda> !
<yolanda> Daviey, any more bugs to review?
<Daviey> bug 1196979 , jamespage - can you summarise ?
<ubottu> bug 1196979 in ow-util-ant-tasks (Ubuntu Saucy) "[MIR] libasm4-java (b-d of jarjar)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196979
<jamespage> transition
<jamespage> I have it on my list
<Daviey> ok, thanks
<Daviey> rbasak: bug 1031680 , been a bunch of discussion. Do we have a plan?
<ubottu> bug 1031680 in nagios-plugins (Ubuntu Raring) "check_apt always report 0 critical updates" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031680
<rbasak> Daviey: I'm happy with the plan xnox described on the ML. It needs someone to actually do it, though.
<Daviey> rbasak: ok, thanks.
<Daviey> Any more bugs?
<Daviey> Blueprints.. Don't think we need to review them this week.
<Daviey> Would like to check on.. juju-core, is there any progress on getting an update into saucy ?
<Daviey> jamespage: ^ ?
<jamespage> Daviey, I pinged mgz today - 1.1.1 of golang is now in saucy (I jumped the Debian maintainer and pushed a point release in myself)
<Daviey> Super!
<jamespage> mgz is going to work on that with davecheney ~soon
<jamespage> end of this week latest I hope
<Daviey> A General note.  Please make sure that if you are working on something, anything, it is captured as a WI.
<jamespage> ^^^ that all is
<Daviey> There are too many 0% progresses for the cycle and a 100% (!)
<jamespage> also remember a work item can be a bug linked to a blueprint as well
<Daviey> EOF, thanks
<yolanda> ok
<yolanda> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<yolanda> i received emails for OpenStack summit and free registration codes
<yolanda> shall we register so soon?
<Daviey> yolanda: Yes, do register :)
<Daviey> I haven't done so yet.
<yolanda> ok
<Daviey> But a bunch of ~ubuntu-server people are going to Openstack Summit in Honk Kong, November.
<Daviey> But a little early to declare it
<yolanda> any other events?
<arosales> OSCON coming up at towards the end of the months
<Daviey> None in the short term, i don't think
<arosales> OSCON = ~july 22~
<yolanda> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
<psivaa> I am in for plars for this week
<psivaa> Just a couple of bugs affecting the smoke tests, jdstrand and apw were working on them
<psivaa> bug #1197484 and bug #1195710
<ubottu> bug 1197484 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "Connection requests to saucy server VMs from a precise host fail after fresh VM installs" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197484
<psivaa> :)
<ubottu> bug 1195710 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "'Kernel bug - invalid opcode: 0000 [#1] SMP' is reported at 'Preparing linux-image-extra-3.10.0-0-generic' stage of multi-lvm installations of amd64 saucy server " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1195710
<smb> The last one being worked on by apw
<psivaa> jdstrand said he will look into the first one
<yolanda> ok
<yolanda> anything else for psivaa?
<psivaa> that's all from us this week
<yolanda> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Not much from me. Xen-4.3 is in progress and the usual funny bugs.
<yolanda> any question for smb?
<yolanda> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<doko> jamespage, are you involved with the Debian go policy?
<doko> are don't you care?
<Daviey> rbasak: Looking forward to learning what comes out of Connect when you return :)
<jamespage> doko, not really but I think i may have to start....
<yolanda> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<doko> jamespage, cool, lets chat about this next week
<yolanda> any other topics to brig?
<yolanda> bring?
<jamespage> doko, yes - lets do that
<yolanda> anything else?
<yolanda> ok, so let's finish
<yolanda> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> thanks for chairing yolanda :-)
<yolanda> next meeting will be on 16th of July
<yolanda> adam_g will be chairing
<jamespage> so long as yolanda gets all the paper work out by then :-)
<yolanda> sure :)
<yolanda> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul  9 16:40:15 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-09-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-09-16.00.html
<rbasak> Thanks for chairing yolanda!
<yolanda> thanks for your patience! :)
<yolanda> Daviey, thanks for the help!
<Daviey> thanks yolanda, you did great
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul  9 17:00:18 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<cking> o/
<smb> o/
<henrix> o/
<apw> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || mobile-power-management        || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || foundations-1305-kernel        || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || sforshee  || foundations-1303-phablet-kernel-maintenance || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || pm-system-policy               || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-s-virtstack        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our master branch for Saucy continues to track v3.10 final.  We'll
<ogasawara> continue in this holding pattern until the v3.11-rc#'s begin appearing
<ogasawara> and we are able to evaluate moving to v3.11 for Saucy.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> Thurs July 25 - Alpha 2 (opt in)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 22 - 12.04.3
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (bjf)
<bjf> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (July 2):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Prep'ing
<bjf>   * Precise - Prep'ing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Prep'ing
<bjf>   * Raring  - Prep'ing
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>   * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul  9 17:04:45 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-09-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-09-17.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-10
 * slangasek waves
<jodh`> o/
<ev> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 10 15:06:18 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> xnox barry stgraber ev slangasek cjwatson jodh stokachu bdmurray doko
<xnox> =)
<xnox> * android crosstoolchain uploaded into the archive
<xnox> * (and subsequently fixed up)
<xnox> * upstart merge reviews
<xnox> * patch pilot tuesday
<xnox> * in progress making "android" package that will do everything
<xnox>   - build system/recovery/boot images for 4 nexus devices
<xnox>   - build android-src package for cross-toolchain
<xnox>   - build host tools
<slangasek> xnox: done?
 * barry wonders if xnox is done
<xnox> yes.
<barry> short week due to usa holiday.
<barry> image based updates: weekly meeting.  LP: #1199177.  LP: #1192585.  LP: #1199361.  LP: #1199498.  Today: finish up LP: #1199498, LP: #1199488, and upload new version of system-image package.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199177 in Ubuntu system image "installed version must look for /etc/system-image/client.ini" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192585 in Ubuntu system image "Add a dbus API" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192585
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199361 in Ubuntu system image "Built-in downloads time out" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199361
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199498 in Ubuntu system image "Update client for updated ubuntu_command format" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199498
<barry> (the next upload won't include the dbus api)
<barry> other: LP: #1198439 (investigated).  LP: #1038429, LP: #1196754, configglue 1.1.1 and other horrors related to python-configparser.  I'll be dealing with this more after the next system-image package upload.  Tracked down and worked around long nagging emacs bug.  LP: #1199403 and LP: #1199439 and other horrors related to X crashing after latest saucy updates.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1198439 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "package python2.7-minimal 2.7.4-2ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1198439
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1038429 in Ubuntu Software Center stable-13-10 "update-software-center crashed with order (MRO) for bases SafeConfigParser, object in __new__()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038429
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1196754 in configglue "Tests fail in Python 3 with non UTF-8 locale" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199403 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Xorg crash" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199403
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199439 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "segfault in xorg-server during install of saucy 32bits under vmware" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199439
<barry> â
<stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
<stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
<stgraber>   - system-image-cli is now part of the daily images
<stgraber>   - a basic upgrader tool is now part of the recovery images
<stgraber>   - wrote an import-cdimage tool, that converts our current images to system-image. Currently running manually, will be croned once reliable.
<stgraber>   - added pxz support to the python module
<stgraber>   - updated initrd+fstab to make /var/lib/system-image writable on the touch devices
<stgraber>   - ran a bunch of tests with the client, leading to a bunch of bug reports, hopefully the next release will actually let us run an end to end upgrade using the production infrastructure
<stgraber>   - got in touch with design wrt the UI (on hold waiting for next PRD review meeting)
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - Ubuntu touch
<stgraber>   - Cherry-picked pidns+mntns support to mako and manta, available at github.com/stgraber/linux (maguro and grouper will be much harder as they're on an older kernel)
<stgraber>   - Merged a bunch of changes to lxc-android-config and the initrd to support loop-mounted flipped images
<stgraber>   - Cleaned up a bunch of scripts to stop using /proc/<pid>/root as a way to access the container, instead doing clean bind-mounts from the host to the container
<stgraber>  - LXC
<stgraber>   - Fix openssh key generation in the Ubuntu template (broken after changes to the openssh postinst)
<stgraber>   - Re-added timeout option to get_ips API and fixed a bunch of PEP-8 warnings
<stgraber>   - Added support for non-tmpfs backend to lxc-start-ephemeral
<stgraber>   - Usual code reviews
<stgraber>  - Network
<stgraber>   - Prepared the openvpn merge, blocked on iproute2
<stgraber>   - Made iproute2 build
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>   - Merged bcfg2
<stgraber>   - Tested a new shim for slangasek
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Look into what else is blocked on the new iproute2 and get that sorted
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Add gpg support to the upgrader script
<stgraber>  - Write some tools for manual actions on system-image (manage channels, manage keyrings, manually publish updates, ...)
<stgraber>  - Process some pending merges (ifupdown and resolvconf)
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> stgraber: PRD review meeting> does that mean Design is waiting to be told by pmcgowan that this is a priority?  Do I need to make sure this is escalated with him?
<ev> - Most of my time this week has been spent on getting Cassandra deployed into
<ev>   Prodstack with the webops team:
<ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60652
<ev>   https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/OSA/Projects/InProgress/UE/CassandraSpace/BringingUpProdstack
<ev>   - We've run into some headaches along the way, but we have the nodes in place
<ev>     and streaming a repair from the DC. We'll see how this goes. Juju lost its
<ev>     brain last night and decided to restart all the Cassandra nodes while they
<ev>     were doing the repair (bad):
<ev>     https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/canonical-marshal/cassandra.restart-when-required
<ev>   - Current estimates put the seed node repair at just over a day and the rest
<ev>     of the nodes done by early next week.
<ev> - Fixed the error tracker charms to handle all the weird corner cases around
<ev>   Cassandra juju nodes coming and going by greatly simplifying the relation
<ev>   code.
<ev> - Finally got the mobile images creating core dumps with the help of Oli and
<ev>   apw. \o/
<ev> - Added support for automatic error reporting to apport, in support of crash
<ev>   reporting on the server and mobile images:
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/automatic-reporting/+merge/173553
<ev> - Adding a diagnostics page to system-settings to control whoopsie reporting, per:
<ev>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#Privacy_settings
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/ubuntu-system-settings/diagnostics
<ev> - Code review for Brian.
<ev> TODO:
<ev> - Split the WhoopsiePreferences DBus daemon out of activity-log-manager so it
<ev>   can be used by ubuntu-system-settings.
<ev> - Modify the WhoopsiePreferences policykit policy to allow admin without password.
<ev> (done)
<slangasek>  * short week, public holiday+vac
<slangasek>  * packaging parted for cross-building now that the android cross-compiler is in the archive
<slangasek>  * working on tracking down remaining shim bugs - seems the new version is even worse on stgraber's ThinkPad, we need to get to the bottom of this (bug #1087501)
<ubottu> bug 1087501 in shim (Ubuntu) "Unable to boot unsigned kernel, boot freezes in shim call" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087501
<slangasek>   * some installer path seems to leave systems without shim-signed installed on the target system (bug #1184297), needs further investigation
<ubottu> bug 1184297 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Precise) "Secure boot failed, claiming boot is against security policy" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1184297
<slangasek>  * partner package updates for centrifydc
<slangasek>  * discussions around bug management for the Touch images
<slangasek>  * looking into unity library handling, which consistently breaks update-manager on soname changes (bug #1193120)
<ubottu> bug 1193120 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-common is not common" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193120
<slangasek> (done)
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-click-package:
<cjwatson>  - Implemented per-user package installs; still working on removal/unregistration and associated garbage-collection.
<cjwatson>  - In tandem with this, experimenting with a PackageKit backend based on Sebastian's work.  The approach of a PK plugin (as implemented in Listaller) is looking promising for this.
<cjwatson>  - Various discussions about things like desktop file handling.
<cjwatson> Working on Apache 2.4 transition to try to save everyone else's sanity trying to get packages migrated to saucy.  (In particular, apparmor is kind of wedged on it and the security team need to work on it for click; the workaround of copying from a devirt PPA is possible but tedious and error-prone.)  Much swearing at a variety of entertainingly broken packages.
<cjwatson> Discussions of build pipeline problems, and trying to apply tactical Vaseline to things.
<cjwatson> Shifted the "current" symlink for ubuntu-touch images over to trigger-controlled mode so that it can be tested first.
<cjwatson> ..
<jodh`> * foundations-1305-upstart-app-launching
<jodh`>   - upstart 1.9.1 release preparation
<jodh`>     - libupstart packaging with xnox.
<jodh`>     - Discovered bug 1199778 in final testing.
<ubottu> bug 1199778 in upstart (Ubuntu) "upstart crashes if re-exec'ed with active chroot sessions" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199778
<jodh`> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items
<jodh`>   - dconf/gsettings bridge
<jodh`>     - Created lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/upstart-dconf-bridge.
<jodh`>     - Few tweaks. Currently working on handling jobs being added/removed.
<jodh`> * upstart
<jodh`>   - Discussions with Phonedations team about injecting Android service
<jodh`>     states into Upstart.
<jodh`>   - Started working on a new bridge to handle this communication.
<jodh`>   - Reviewed lp:~ricmm/session-manager-touch/migrate-to-upstart-session
<jodh`> * misc
<jodh`>   - short week (will be out on Friday)
<jodh`> à¹
<stokachu> currently working on bug 833994 seems wget is returning different outputs between busybox and standard wget, working on getting rdeps built for bug 1194901
 * barry thinks Tactical Vaseline would make an excellent band name
<ubottu> bug 833994 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu) "debian-installer does not support https when using with preseed files" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833994
<ubottu> bug 1194901 in raring-backports "Please backport puppet 3.2.2-1 (main) from saucy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1194901
<stokachu> (done)
<stokachu> xnox: i did see your comment referenced in another similar bug, was going to look into that
<bdmurray> short week due to holidays
<bdmurray> bug triage of some initramfs-tools duplicate bugs
<bdmurray> investigation into regression detection of bug 1195007 (would the phased updater have found it: no)
<ubottu> bug 1195007 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu Saucy) "qt patch introduces fatal gdk_x_error handler" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1195007
<bdmurray> modified errors bug submitter to create more detailed bug reports (example at http://qastaging.launchpad.net/bugs/1105405)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1105405 in db (Ubuntu) "D2013" [Undecided,Invalid]
<bdmurray> merged / uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader branch for disabling proposed when upgrading to the development release
<bdmurray> modified and tested update-notifier notification of .crash files
<bdmurray> tested and reported upstart bug 1199499
<ubottu> bug 1199499 in upstart (Ubuntu) "upstart file bridge sets FILE to glob pattern instead of specific file" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199499
<bdmurray> irc discussion with slangasek regarding pkg team mapping and working on it
<bdmurray> â done
<xnox> stokachu: yeah, the other bug was against wget package "wget-udeb should ship wget instead of wget.gnu"
<stokachu> xnox: yea and this one needs ssl support
<stgraber> slangasek: mpt said he has interest in that part of the design but that there's nobody clearly assigned to this at this point, he raised it with Nick Tait who told him he'd raise this issue at the next PRD review meeting (next week apparently)
<stokachu> so once i fix that other one this one will be good to go
<slangasek> jodh`: android service states into upstart> could we have a public discussion about this on an appropriate mailing list?  I'm not thrilled with the architecture being proposed and think it should be subjected to some more eyeballs
<xnox> stgraber: which the other one was suggested as the "solution" to ssl support =))))
<cjwatson> I continue to have fundamental design scepticism about the whole https thing in the installer, but appear to be being railroaded
<jodh`> slangasek: sure. We are feeling our way a little on this I think so the more input the better :)
<stgraber> slangasek: so I haven't heard anything to make me think we've got a priority issue there but we clearly need someone assigned to it and I suspect the design may end up missing the end of July deadline (if we have to wait an extra week just to have someone be put on it)
<stokachu> cjwatson: ssl is the new thing! :D
<stokachu> they even have a firefox addon to force https
<stokachu> :P
<cjwatson> stokachu: SSL is snake-oil if proper certificates aren't present
<cjwatson> And I disapprove of peddling snake-oil
<cjwatson> So any solution to this needs to think about that and at least document how to get useful certificates in (I suggested one mechanism in a comment)
<slangasek> stgraber: ok, then I /will/ escalate it with pmcgowan, thanks :)
<stokachu> cjwatson: what about signed urls?
 * stokachu was just thinking of alternatives
<slangasek> doko: hi - your turn :)
<cjwatson> Er, no such thing as a signed URL
<stgraber> hmm, wait, are we talking about doing https downloads but without doing the certificate validation? that sounds like a waste of CPU
<cjwatson> stgraber: That is exactly what https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/833994/comments/10 suggests
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833994 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu) "debian-installer does not support https when using with preseed files" [Medium,Triaged]
 * xnox thought that booting with md5sum of the pressed file is enough.
<cjwatson> xnox: Some people appear to want on-the-wire confidentiality too
<stokachu> you could build your urls based ona key
<cjwatson> stokachu: doesn't solve the customer requirement at all
<cjwatson> I understand the customer requirement, and we probably eventually have to do HTTPS; I just want people to actually listen when I say that it needs a bit more care than shoving in an HTTPS-capable wget
<stgraber> hmm, well, it's right that it'd be vaguely safer (protect against sniffing) but won't prevent MITM, at the minimum we should require the certificate fingerprint to be passed to d-i (assuming wget let's you check that)
<cjwatson> I'm not saying "we should make up some crypto protocol of our own rather than doing HTTPS"
<cjwatson> (making up our own crypto protocol is roughly never the right answer.  don't do it)
<xnox> .... it needs to at least manage to finish the installs ;-)
 * mdeslaur prepares stick to beat amateur cryptologist
<stokachu> if they are that concerned about https shouldnt they be running landscape internally to manage their repos
<cjwatson> err
<stokachu> or a private repo
<cjwatson> I think you have drunk our own kool-aid
<cjwatson> landscape does not magically encrypt communication with d-i when d-i has no crypto capabilities built in ...
<xnox> stokachu: i do over the network preseed install and I don't want other users on the network find out i ever did, and what packages i have installed. it should all just look like https traffic.
<stokachu> hmm ok, i was more thinking of locally managed packages not in the archive
<cjwatson> this really isn't the point
<xnox> stokachu: that is independant of the landscape / repos used, oh.... yeah what cjwatson says.
<doko> slangasek, sorry, not prepared ... at connect, updated GCC, merged the new Linaro release, some merges & syncs
<slangasek> doko: good enough :-)
<cjwatson> like I say, I'm not saying "don't do https", I'm saying "do https properly"
<cjwatson> https, done properly, is the right answer to the customer req
<xnox> doko: is bero around? with whatever ping was about?
<doko> xnox, yes, I'll follow-up
<xnox> ack.
<cjwatson> regarding repo management, I suspect that they also want the preseed file contents not to be sniffable, and that doesn't live in a repo anyway
<stokachu> ok
<slangasek> stokachu, cjwatson: "do https properly" - seems like a concise summary of the problem. :-)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<xnox> cjwatson: where would you ship certificates ca-certs-udeb?
<slangasek> anything else?
<stokachu> RIP Seth Vidal
<cjwatson> xnox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/833994/comments/8
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833994 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu) "debian-installer does not support https when using with preseed files" [Medium,Triaged]
<cjwatson> xnox: Bearing in mind the nature of the sites that want this kind of thing, I think they'll be more interested in saying "this is our certificate" vs. "this is everything in ca-certificates"
<cjwatson> stokachu: yes, another car-on-cyclist case I hear :-(
 * slangasek nods :/
<ogra_> :/
<stokachu> cjwatson: yea he lived in the next town over, sad to hear
<barry> sad :(
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Touch container architecture
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Touch container architecture
<doko> xnox, did you see my message
<slangasek> so today I thought I'd take the hot seat myself and talk a bit about the layout of the touch images
<slangasek> especially now that the container flip is done, it's probably good for people to understand exactly what we've got going here and be on the same page
<slangasek> so before the container flip, the way the touch preview images worked was to boot a more-or-less standard android environment, and then run Ubuntu in a chroot
<slangasek> this is less than optimal from our perspective, for a number of reasons :)
<slangasek> with the container flip, we are now booting an *Ubuntu* environment, then running android in an lxc-managed container
<slangasek> the container is run from an upstart job, /etc/init/lxc-android-config.conf
<slangasek> there are a couple key reasons for having this as a container when done this way around, rather than just a chroot
<slangasek> first, because we need to run android's own init still, and it cares about being pid 1 - so we need a pid namespace for it
<slangasek> second, because it cares about doing its own thing with mounts
<slangasek> (actually, the latter might be surmountable with just a chroot, but point 1 stands anyway)
<slangasek> the reasons we need to run android's init are that it runs ueventd, which is android's udev equivalent and needs to do various bits of device management for us... including some firmware loading that we don't have working quite right under udev
<slangasek> and because it runs a 'prop' service on a socket that other android services care about
<barry> slangasek: will it ever be possible to get rid of android altogether?
<slangasek> so much as we might like to, we can't (currently) drop the android environment and run all the services as upstart jobs
<cjwatson> I'm curious if there's much more stuff left in the android env that we expect to move to Ubuntu for 13.10
<ogra_> barry, well, our whole infrastyructure is knitted around android atm
<slangasek> barry: it may be possible to get rid of the container, but the roadmap has us continuing to leverage android technologies in the future for certain parts of the middleware
<slangasek> the one thing left that we're expecting to move to Ubuntu is surfaceflinger->Mir :)
<slangasek> (AFAIK that's the only one)
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<ogra_> if we ever get a dricet contract with a vendor that would give us access to everything, first of all the platform-api would have to learn to cope with that
<slangasek> and fwiw, if you think running a udev equivalent in a container is ugly... you're right :)
<ogra_> since it currently hooks into android for many things (snesores etc(
<ogra_> *sensors
<ogra_> haha
<slangasek> but I've looked at this problem from every angle together with the Phonedations team, and we just don't see any way to get rid of it right now without investing a lot of effort
<ogra_> slangasek, jodh` will save us all :)
<ogra_> (with the upstart android bridge)
<slangasek> ogra_: the proposal there is only to expose android status to upstart... running ueventd is still fugly
 * jodh` whistles...
<slangasek> but it's what we have to do for now
<ogra_> slangasek, we have full access to androids properties system
<ogra_> thanks to rsajdok_
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> rsalveti,
<slangasek> right
<ogra_> so start/stop android services you just od a setprop ...
<ogra_> *do
<ogra_> thats where the bridge will hook into
<ogra_> it will give us far more thaan status
<slangasek> speaking of the properties system, if you're not familiar with it, it's effectively a central keystore for information about the overall state of the system... it also exposes things like your system type
<jodh`> ogra_: my understanding is that the properties socket is for writing which is accessible from the host side, but we cannot monitor changes to properties from the host right?
<slangasek> which is why if you were running a container-flipped image earlier, and adbd was running from Ubuntu instead of from Android, you might have noticed that phablet-flash wouldn't autodetect your device type
<ogra_> jodh`, via the socket we should be able to trigger it from the android side
<slangasek> this is fixed now, by having the 'prop' interface made available in the Ubuntu environment as standard commands
<slangasek> (from android-tools-such-n-such)
<slangasek> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5775132/
<slangasek> so one thing that's given us a lot of grief has been the partition layout
<ogra_> ++
<slangasek> that pastebin is a "typical" partition table on an android device
<cjwatson> oh my, I hadn't actually looked at it before
<slangasek> lots of partitions, fairly well-architected wrt Android's requiremenst
<slangasek> and Ubuntu can use most of those partitions without modification
<cjwatson> it's like the worst excesses of somebody turning up on usenet with seven different Linux distros multi-booting
<slangasek> except... the system partition, which by all rights is where the OS should be, tends to be a little small. :P
<slangasek> (here, 686MB)
<slangasek> conveniently, on all our reference devices at least, the system, cache, and userdata partitions are all right next to each other
<slangasek> which means that in theory we should be able to steal some space back from the read-write userdata partition to give to the system partition, without breaking things at a low level
<slangasek> I've been working on this... it's why we want parted in the recovery partition, which means cross-building parted for android
<rsalveti> jodh`: right, we cannot monitor the current socket for properties, we'd need a different approach, kind as we discussed by email
<slangasek> so the phablet-flash bootstrap option will not just install an enhanced recovery partition for you, it will also re-partition the system/cache/userdata partitions
<rsalveti> slangasek: and yes, we'll run ueventd fully at least once, and stop the service, which will trigger a ueventd.stopped, that will be hooked to upstart by jodh`
<slangasek> the goal is to have a 2GB system partition standard, so that we can put the full Ubuntu rootfs on there (including the android bits)
<slangasek> rsalveti: ok
<slangasek> now, on our ref devices, we can repartition, but we can't necessarily do that on all the community ports that folks have spun up - and basically aren't even going to try, lest we brick someone's device by mistake
<xnox> slangasek: "cross-building parted for android" -> since there is no dynamic linker in the recovery partition, this reduces to "statically link an armhf binary" (similar to e.g. busybox-static)
<slangasek> so on systems that don't have a big enough system partition, the plan is to have the Ubuntu rootfs as a loop-mount off of the userdata partition, after all
<xnox> slangasek: one could build it & statically link against bionic, but that requires porting to incomplete libc/pthreads.
<slangasek> so the root will still be mounted ro, though it won't quite give us the same degree of safety since the underlying fs is still rw
<ogra_> nexus7 will be our loop mount reference device :)
<slangasek> xnox: oh, I hadn't noticed there was no dynamic linker; I wonder if that's a design choice we should revisit
<slangasek> right - we can't repartition the nexus7 (grouper)
<slangasek> because its partition table is INSANELY NON STANDARD
<slangasek> it relies on a kernel patch to even *find* the partition table on disk
<xnox> slangasek: the question is size =) how big is recovery & how much can one have for parted?
<ogra_> tegra .... :)
<slangasek> but that's another story
<slangasek> xnox: well, I wouldn't assume that statically linking everything is going to make the overall image smaller
<xnox> slangasek: no, bigger due to copies. If size is an issue, we should investigate dynamic linking. If it's not and 3MB for gpg and probably similar for parted is ok, we should just use those.
<slangasek> anyway, that's pretty much the overview with where things stand on the architecture for the filesystem on Touch :)
<stgraber> xnox: we have a total of 12.5MB on the N4, IIRC Android requires 10MB minimum so it's quite small
<slangasek> any questions?
<xnox> stgraber: and gpg got in already =) i'll statically compile parted and will check how big/small it is.
<stgraber> yesterday I had abootimg fail on me because I was adding 6kB to our standard image ;) I think it was wrong (image was around 8MB) but still, not much room in there
<xnox> ouch.
<rsalveti> stgraber: that's probably because the config had top 8mb for you
<stgraber> in the end I kicked out tune2fs from my initrd which saved around 200kB
<ogra_> stgraber, the 8M are picked by me ... thats the allowed minimal for android
<ogra_> if you know the partition is actually bigger, feel free to bump it in the bootimg.cfg file
<ogra_> i did that for manta already
<rsalveti> ogra_: seems the android build system is a bit smarter on that, it calculates the size dynamically during build time
<stgraber> xnox: we already have parted in our images (338.6K) so it shouldn't be a problem so long as it's not much bigger than that
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, it looks at how big kernel and initrd togetther are and sets that as fixed size
<rsalveti> but we still need to know how to dynamically create the initrd when updating the kernel (not via image updates)
<xnox> stgraber: oh, ok. didn't notice =)
<ogra_> rsalveti, which means adding 1byte already fails :)
<rsalveti> indeed
<cjwatson> if that parted is linked dynamically then it's probably linked against libparted
<cjwatson> which has the bulk of the intelligence in it
<ogra_> rsalveti, and we dont really want to do any dynamic stuff with the initrd
<slangasek> apparently the current one wouldn't be dynamic because there's no dynamic linker in the recovery partition?
<rsalveti> ogra_: right, indeed, we just need to change the bootimg, in case we update the kernel
<ogra_> yeah
<cjwatson> ok.  I suspect that's stripped-down (libparted.a is about a megabyte here), but we'll see
<stgraber> ~ # find / | grep lib | grep -v system | grep -v proc
<stgraber> ~ #
<stgraber> no such thing as libs in recovery :)
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, bootimg,cfg defines 8M for all devices but manta atm
<rsalveti> ogra_: right
<ogra_> if there is space on disk i'm happy to bump the default
<cjwatson> stgraber: party like it's 1969
<ogra_> (manta already has 22M)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 10 16:05:00 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-10-15.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-10-15.06.html
<slangasek> thanks, everyone
<slangasek> #ubuntu-touch for follow-up :)
<ogra_> that was a nice summary
<barry> slangasek: thanks
<ogra_> :)
<stgraber> slangasek: that partition dump you gave earlier wasn't from mako right?
<ogra_> stgraber, maguro i think
<ogra_> (xloader indicates omap)
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> ogra_: on mako boot and recovery are 22528kB large (22MB)
<ogra_> oh, then it was probably mako where i bumped the default to 22M
 * ogra_ is to lazy to look in initramfs-tools-ubuntu-touch 
<stgraber> ogra_: grouper seems to be 8MB for boot and 12MB for recovery
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> i know the *m from the top of my head :)
<ogra_> 8M
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-07
<tyhicks> hello
<sarnold> hello
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<mdeslaur> hello!
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
<jdstrand> Andrew Starr-Bochicchio (andrewsomething) provided a debdiff for trusty for libtorrent-rasterbar (LP: #1330703)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1330703 in libtorrent-rasterbar (Ubuntu Trusty) "[Security] UPNP opens port 0 which fully exposes PC to the internet." [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1330703
<jdstrand> James Page (jamespage) provided an update for trusty for percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5 (LP: #1325916)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1325916 in percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5 (Ubuntu Utopic) "Update to 5.5.37 for security updates" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1325916
<jdstrand> Felix Geyer (debfx) provided a debdiff for trusty for mumble (LP: #1335597)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1335597 in mumble (Ubuntu Saucy) "CVE-2014-3755 and CVE-2014-3756" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1335597
<jdstrand> Louis Bouchard (caribou) provided a debdiff for precise-utopic for openssl098 (LP: #1331452)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1331452 in openssl098 (Ubuntu Utopic) "Please backport current CVEs for Precise LTS openssl098" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1331452
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job!
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm back from vacation so am catching up on what I missed
<jdstrand> seems to be going ok so far
<jdstrand> thank you for covering for me
<jdstrand> I'm off Wednesday
<jdstrand> I plan to do apparmor testing of jjohansen's abstract socket mediation patch set
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: it was easy, I just did /nick jdstrand "I don't know." all week
<jdstrand> hehe
<jdstrand> I have an rtm work item I will be working on for click-apparmor
<jdstrand> and I need to really get cracking on the performance reviews
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I've got a few updates to test and release, including dbus
<mdeslaur> and am currently working on php5 updates
<mdeslaur> the list is getting long, so that's what I'll be doing the rest of the week also
<mdeslaur> that's it for me! sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm also back from vacation and catching up on what I missed
<sbeattie> I digging back into the gcc pie stuff
<mdeslaur> ah crud, I forgot about smb's xen updates last week...I'll be sponsoring that too
<sbeattie> I need to sync up with jjohansen
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: hrm, please ask if jj has anything for you to help with before looking at gcc again
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: heh, yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.
<mdeslaur> cool
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: but ack
<sbeattie> anyway, that's pretty much it for me
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm currently fixing an eCryptfs kernel bug
<tyhicks> it doesn't yet have an official bug, but it is mentioned in another bug: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41692#c2
<ubottu> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 41692 in ecryptfs "Obscure improper EACCES with ecryptfs_xattr_metadata" [Normal,New]
<tyhicks> I also plan to review a patch for an upcoming file encryption kernel feature
<tyhicks> I need to rebase my dbus merge against the latest version debian testing
<tyhicks> and then push it through
<tyhicks> and then I'd like to take a look at my outstanding work items
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: helping jj with whatever tasks he has to land the stuff for rtm has priority
<tyhicks> I think "implement kernel postinst policy compiles" work item from last month would be a good one to start on
<jdstrand> so, jjohansen said earlier that he would likely have some abstract patches
<tyhicks> ok
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: perhaps tyhicks can help with the Ubuntu packaging/testing?
<tyhicks> jjohansen: give me anything you'd like and I'll drop whatever I'm working on
<mdeslaur> definitely
<tyhicks> ok
<jdstrand> cool, yeah, let's have tyhicks take the lead on the Ubuntu landing.
 * tyhicks nods
<jdstrand> tyhicks: I'll work with you on that like last time
<tyhicks> ok
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> well gee, I think its all been covered already :)
<jdstrand> hehe
<jdstrand> jjohansen: you are the man of the hour :)
<jjohansen> I need to sync up with sbeattie, and jdstrand
<jjohansen> I need to push out the abstract socket patches, I am currently doing some revisions on them
<tyhicks> jjohansen: are you revising the kernel or userspace patches? (or both?)
<jjohansen> tyhicks: both
<tyhicks> ok
<tyhicks> I'll watch the list for the userspace patches and then start packaging them up
<jjohansen> tyhicks: I'll start kicking stuff out today, I'll push the userspace first
<tyhicks> sounds good
<jdstrand> jjohansen: will this include the backports for the touch kernels?
<jjohansen> once the abstract/anonymous socket mediation patches look good, I have to get some patches together to push upstream
<jjohansen> jdstrand: uh sort of
<jdstrand> ?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: its a set of changes on top of the current stuff. I expect we are going to just drop it as a diff on top of the current set. So now rebase etc is needed
<jdstrand> ok, that's sounds fine
<jjohansen> I can certainly build touch kernels with the diff on top of the current
<jdstrand> we can't consider this landed until it is both userspace and the touch kernels
<jjohansen> jdstrand: correct
<jdstrand> so I just wanted to ask
<jdstrand> jjohansen: for tyhicks and myself, we'll need generic amd64 (at least, perhaps i386), mako and goldfish
<jjohansen> jdstrand: for landing there is some dependency ordering on policy
<jdstrand> sure
<jjohansen> right
<jdstrand> like last time
<jjohansen> kernel is not dependent on userspace and userspace on kernel, so just policy
<jjohansen> yep
<jdstrand> so we don't have to hash that our all here. sounds like things are in order, we just need to execute
 * jdstrand is excited, but slightly worried about the policy changes
<jdstrand> jjohansen: have you seen anything scary wrt policy changes?
<jjohansen> define scary :)
<mdeslaur> scary as in "breaks everything"
<jdstrand> I'm hoping it'll be a more or less non-event for upgraders (ie, we can tweak base and apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu accordingly)
<jdstrand> I'm also hoping that we don't have bad required policy
<jjohansen> uh yeah if rules aren't in place you can break things that are using abstract sockets
<jdstrand> like apps have to talk to the upstart abstract socket for some reason
<jjohansen> think just like with the unix socket fix that was done with saucy, without certain rules in place you fail to boot
<jdstrand> jjohansen: right, I meant in your work, have you seen anything that was obvious that it couldn't be handled well by adjusting base, etc
<jdstrand> or do we expect things to be similar to signal/ptrace mediation
<jdstrand> (which went very well)
<jjohansen> jdstrand: hrmmm, I haven't really thought about where the best place for the additions is, we certainly can add to base
<jjohansen> yep
<jdstrand> ok, that's fine. just wondering if you had a feel for it yet. we certainly will once the patches go up :)
 * jdstrand is done with his questions
<jjohansen> jdstrand: so my feel is we will stuff some of it in base. which is fine, its just a matter of tuning how tight you want things
 * jjohansen is done, sarnold you're up
<jdstrand> cool, sounds great
<jdstrand> we'll discuss all that in #apparmor when the time is right
 * sarnold hides
<sarnold> I'm on community this week; I have a MIR for trust-store to work on, blueprint items to work on, and it sounds like jj's going to give me a giant gift-wrapped bow-tied balloon-festooned box of new patches to review! \o/
<mdeslaur> sarnold: are you still working with mterry on phone password handling?
<sarnold> mdeslaur: let me go reload that bug :)
<sarnold> s/bug/merge request/
<mdeslaur> sarnold: I believe he had some follow up questions about how to handle empty passwords, etc, and I told him to work that out with you
<sarnold> mdeslaur: ah, looks like he's got wonderful answers to my questions, no new questions, looks like he's probably good :D
<sarnold> mdeslaur: ah right, and the securetty bits. i'm sorry I forgot about those.
<mdeslaur> sarnold: ping him when you get a chance and follow up to make sure all is resolved, please
<sarnold> mdeslaur: ack :)
<sarnold> I think that's me done, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> this week, I'm looking at getting daily builds going for oxide (I did a hangout last week with oSoMoN and psivaa, and we decided to separate the CI and daily builds tasks, with me taking the latter)
<chrisccoulson> also, will hopefully be testing and publishing a chromium update from chad :)
<mdeslaur> \o/
<chrisccoulson> and, there'll be an oxide update too (with the new chromium release in)
<chrisccoulson> so, if you're using webapps in trusty, please do install the oxide build from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa/
<mdeslaur> sweet
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: re daily builds> oh nice :)
<chrisccoulson> also, when I did our hangout last week, I did a little diagram explaining the release cycle: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/presentation/d/1cJ_2nhHgv1A4tMUy4-7Tc1kt5r861a0CnYaG9GiOqIo/edit?usp=sharing
<jdstrand> very nice on oxide update for trusty too
<mdeslaur> cool
<chrisccoulson> I'll put that in a blog post soon (the diagram is currently not publically shared, although there's no reason it shouldn't be)
<chrisccoulson> so the link won't work for anyone outside of canonical atm
<jdstrand> cool
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: so, I think we need some sort of MRE like thing for oxide
<jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<sarnold> meal ready to eat?
<sarnold> oh jeeze
<chrisccoulson> aha :)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: perhaps mdeslaur can help there since he is on the TB
<jdstrand> it is the plan of action, but it hasn't been ratified by the TB
<mdeslaur> since there are security fixes included, no need for a mre
<mdeslaur> if you ever want to publish new versions with only fixes, you need an mre
<jdstrand> this will have more than security updates aiui
<jdstrand> just like firefox and chromium-browser
<mdeslaur> doesn't matter, the mres are only for SRUs
<jdstrand> (which have MREs)
<jdstrand> ok, fair enough
<jdstrand> makes it easier :)
<mdeslaur> I mean, we still should probably ask for one, in case there are updates that don't include security fixes
 * jdstrand nods
<mdeslaur> once we've done a couple via security updates, chrisccoulson can ask for the MRE
<jdstrand> sounds like a plan
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/redis.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sup-mail.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/forked-daapd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/syncevolution.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libjboss-cache3-java.html
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages (^) that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> I only have one thing: if you have RTM work items, please work with mdeslaur on finding time to do them. we are rapidly approaching bug fixes only on the phone
<jdstrand> otoh, I have one and then there is the abstract sockets
<jdstrand> (mine is small and should be done this week)
<jdstrand> if you aren't sure if it is for rtm, ask me and mdeslaur
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<tyhicks> thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<jdstrand> where is meeting bot?
 * jdstrand shrugs
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: it's a national bot holiday today
<jdstrand> hehe
<mdeslaur> either that, or world cup
<sbeattie> heh
<sbeattie> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-08
<smoser> o/
<rharper> \o
<kickinz1> o/
<coreycb> o/
<lutostag> o/
<rharper> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<rharper> will wait a bit for some more folks
 * rharper wonders if the meeting bot will ever get fixed 
<michagogo> seems it's in other channels (-2)
<rharper> ok, starting the agenda
<rharper> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rharper> I don't see any ACTION points from the previous meeting
<rharper> #topic Utopic Development
<rharper> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<rharper> we're heading toward Alpha2, scheduled for July 31st
<rharper> smoser: any comments on alpha1 ?
<smoser> old news?
<rharper> probably
<rharper> moving on
<rharper> #subtopic Release Bugs
<rharper> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rharper> The same high as before bug #1317587
<ubottu> bug 1317587 in clamav (Ubuntu Utopic) "ClamAV 0.98.1 is Outdated" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317587
<rharper> not much changed since last week,  moving on
<rharper> #subtopic Blueprints
<rharper> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<rharper> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-u-server
<rharper> any comments for blueprints?
<rharper> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<rharper> I don't see caribou here
<rharper> caribou is sprinting, but reports no issues
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<psivaa> rharper: nothing much to update from our side :)
<rharper> psivaa: great, thanks for the update
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> No news from my side either. Or maybe that I managed to submit a merge-proposal for uvtool by now.
<smb> Apart from that I have nothing
<rharper> smb: ok, thanks
<rharper> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rharper> any upcoming events?
<gaughen_> o/
<rharper> openstack dev summit is accepting papers now (Paris, Nov 2014)
<rharper> I think there's a linuxcon coming up too, not sure if anyone from the team is going
<rharper> gaughen: any other server team events ?
<gaughen> I think you covered it rharper, thanks!
<rharper> cool
<rharper> #topic Open Discussion
<rharper> anything else to discuss?
 * rharper hears the pin drop
<rharper> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
<rharper> seven days from now - 18 minutes
<rharper> #endmeeting
<rharper> thanks everyone
<gnuoy> thanks rharper
<kickinz1> thanks
<lutostag> thanks rharper!
<coreycb> thanks rharper
<matsubara> thanks rharper
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-10
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<mvo_> \o
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<bhuey> folks
 * infinity grunts.
<slangasek> hmm, no bot?
 * stgraber waves
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<robru> hiya
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<slangasek> barry infinity doko xnox caribou sil2100 robru stgraber jodh bhuey mvo cjwatson bdmurray slangasek
<barry> \o/
<barry> short week due to usa holiday.  two week summary:
<barry> more zope stack insanity: zope.security 4.0.1-1, python-pyramid 1.5.1+dfsg-1, zope.component 4.2.1-2 (debian bug #752723), zope.configuration 4.0.3-2, zope.proxy 4.1.4-2, zope.interface 4.1.1-2, zope.hookable 4.0.4-3, zope.deprecation 4.1.1-3, cherrypy3 3.5.0-1, zope.testing 4.1.3-1, python-chameleon 2.16-3, zope.event 4.0.3-2, python-iso8601 0.1.10-0.2, zope.exceptions 4.0.7-1, zope.contenttype 4.0.1-1, zope.browser 2.0.2-1 (debian bug
<barry> #692693)
<ubottu> Debian bug 752723 in src:zope.component "zope.component: Re-enable build-time test suite" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/752723
<barry> syncs/merges: zope.security, zope.component, zope.exceptions, zope.security 4.0.1-1ubuntu1, LP: #1336429, LP: #1339898, zope.pagetemplate 4.0.4-0ubuntu1, zope.untrustedpython 4.0.0-0ubuntu1 (NEW).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1336429 in zope.event (Ubuntu) "[MIR] zope.event" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1336429
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1339898 in zopeproject "zope.pagetemplate 4.0.4 test failure" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1339898
<barry> phone: LP: #1334695, LP: #1335568
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1334695 in Ubuntu system image "system-image crashed during initial download of new keyring" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1334695
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1335568 in system-image (Ubuntu) "Updates keep coming in while writable image is set" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1335568
<barry> other: debian bug #754328 / LP: #1340212
<ubottu> Debian bug 754328 in devscripts "devscripts: mk-origtargz fails on .zip files" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/754328
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1340212 in file (Ubuntu) "file 5.18 incorrectly identifies mime type of zip files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1340212
<barry> done
<xnox> barry: i see that a few zope things are stuck in -proposed.
<infinity> * lots of kernel SRU and security wrangling
<infinity> * sorting out point release d-i issues
<infinity> * stuff
<infinity> * things
<infinity> * misc
<infinity> â­
<barry> xnox: i know :(
<xnox> barry: is that being worked on? e.g. interested in zope.security, as that currently is not-working in utopic/release.
<mvo_> infinity: lol
<barry> xnox: thus the "insanity" bit
<doko> schlaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand!
<xnox> doko: warum?
<doko> - Finale, oho oho ...
<doko> - openjdk-8 packages uploaded to utopic, enabled Hotspot for ppc64el
<doko> - openjdk-7 mentoring, fixes for AArch64, and enabled Hotspot for ppc64el
<doko> - binutils update to fix -flto and gold on armhf
<doko> - libunwind merge
<doko> - GCC 4.9 updates, 4.9.1 will be out late next week
<doko> - test build for openjdk-7 backports to trusty
<doko> - discussed about phone c++11 update in utopic, and further c++11 upgrade strategies
<doko> - python 2.7.8 release, and 3.4.1 update
<doko> (done)
<barry> xnox: yes, i am actively working on it.  the ubuntu-only packages are causing me "fun"
<mvo_> doko: lol^2
<xnox> barry: if i can help, let me know.
<barry> xnox: awesome, thanks
<slangasek> xnox: your turn
<mvo_> â¦
<xnox> moment.
<xnox> * finding & fixing more async asserts in lp:upstart
<xnox>   - current state https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/upstart/shrink-notifications/+merge/225200
<xnox>   - getting asserts during: boot; telinit 1; telinit 2, which jodh
<xnox>   tells me, in async job_change_state shouldn't assert on blockers but
<xnox>   handle them gracefully.
<xnox> * boot/power/desktop-iso testing is not running against trusty, nor
<xnox>   utopic. Investigating with nuclearbob, doanoc, psivaa, plars, bjf,
<xnox>   cking, apw. Utopic iso appears to install/reboot fine. Local UTAH
<xnox>   setup has stopped working for me.
<xnox> * catch up on some outstanding merges (~15)
<xnox> * proposed enabling verbose build-logs (which with latest disables
<xnox>   silent rules) in launchpad's buildds
<xnox>   https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/launchpad-buildd/verbose-buildlogs/+merge/225871
<xnox> * no response from doko/laney/mdslaur re:bash & vte using ANSI escape
<xnox>   codes, maybe I should send that email for wider discussion/analysis.
<xnox> * posted minimal sample of working python3-launchpadlib \o/ but there
<xnox>   are more reviews and fixes to be done.
<xnox> * uploaded upstart trusty SRU
<xnox> ..
<xnox> stgraber: thanks
<doko> xnox, I did see it, will try to find some time for bash
<Laney> Don't know how I can help immediately
<slangasek> no caribou today
<xnox> doko: Laney: ok. ideally was looking for quick veto or ack on things that will/will-not work or are doable.
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100> Oh, now me?
<slangasek> yep!
<sil2100> What about caribou?
<sil2100> Ah, not around
<doko> well, a quick veto would be easy =)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, landing e-mails, landing coordination
<sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
<sil2100>   * Add the 'Approved by' string to commit messages feature (LP: #1320264)
<sil2100>   * Review bregma's patch for the commiters/authors fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1320264 in Canonical Upstream To Distro "Could use "Approved by: " list in commit messages" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320264
<sil2100>   * Sending error message when we are missing the -gles package counterparts
<sil2100>   * Work on automatic merge and clean after publishing
<sil2100> - More lucene++ work
<sil2100> - Work on +1 Maintenance
<sil2100>   * Checking performous regarding libav10 support - upstream working on fix
<sil2100>   * Checking the i386 calligra situation
<sil2100>   * Looking at reverse-dependencies of libaudclient2 (removed with the newest version)
<sil2100>   * Packaging the NEW libaudclient to replace the missing libaudclient2 binary package
<sil2100>   * Rebuild audtty, pidgin-audacious with libaudclient
<sil2100> - Finishing bootstrapping Michael for CI Train
<sil2100> - Finishing up the Landing team Issue Tracker frontend
<sil2100> - Planning and discussions on the pre-RTM landing scheme/rules
<sil2100> - Fighting Google Spreadsheet issues
<sil2100> Done
<robru> - Launched new searchable citrain dashboard, makes it super easy to discover what silos have what packages or belong to who http://people.canonical.com/~rbpark/citrain/#?q=failed
<robru> - took queuebot the last mile, the final nail in the coffin of sncf bot.
<robru> - got juju working after weeks of wrestling!! Tracked the bug down to my system missing /usr/local/bin, submitted a patch to upstream juju not to create files there. https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1329480 https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/286
<robru> - wrote a bunch of documentation on how to write graph definitions for the new ci non functional stats service http://uci.readthedocs.org/en/latest/nfss.html
<robru> - landings, landings, landings... Hit the publish button on countless silos and packages. Troubleshot various build issues for various people
<robru> - some packaging work for qtmir
<robru> â done
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1329480 in juju-core "Cannot create juju-run symlink if /usr/local/bin doesn't exist" [Medium,Triaged]
<bhuey> yo
<bhuey> me next ?
<stgraber> sorry, had a quick phone call
<stgraber> LXC:
<stgraber>  - Released LXC 1.1.0~alpha1
<stgraber>  - Preparing LXC 1.0.5, will tag on Monday
<stgraber>  - Added daily Centos 7 images to images.linuxcontainers.org
<stgraber>  - Reworked images.linuxcontainers.org publisher to only publish OpenSUSE for
<stgraber>    LXC 1.1 and to make it easier to hide distros that don't work in
<stgraber>    unprivileged containers (anything using systemd basically).
<stgraber>  - Various code reviews and bug triaging.
<stgraber>  - Published the initial version of the new lxc tool at:
<stgraber>    https://github.com/stgraber/lxc/tree/new-cmd
<stgraber>    still very very actively working on it, so the base is there but it doesn't
<stgraber>    do very much yet.
<stgraber>  - Spent a few hours looking into some stuff for Chris Townsend, trying to run
<stgraber>    unity8 within LXC. Turned out not to be an LXC problem at all, so back to
<stgraber>    debugging lightdm/unity-system-compositor interactions.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Conferences:
<stgraber>  - Some more work preparing my internet simulation talk (LinuxCon NA), mostly
<stgraber>    code cleanup and clarifying copyright and such so this can be released
<stgraber>    publicly by the time I give the talk.
<stgraber>  - Sent a talk proposal for LinuxCon Europe:
<slangasek> sil2100: new google spreadsheet issues?
<stgraber>    "LXC and why system containers also matter"
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Other:
<stgraber>  - Code review for queuebot plugins.
<stgraber>  - SRU queue reviews.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Holiday:
<slangasek> robru: did you see the RT was resolved to give you access to the ~platform account?
<stgraber>  - I'll be off next Thursday (17th) traveling, then working Friday (18th) and
<robru> stgraber, LXC is totally the coolest damned thing ever. thanks a bunch
<stgraber>    Monday (21st) on a late European timezone (so I have some overlap with folks
<stgraber>    in North America) and then I'll be off from Tuesday (22nd) until I'm back in
<robru> slangasek, yes, thank you
<stgraber>    Montreal the following Monday (28th).
<stgraber> (DONE)
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - async support:
<jodh>     - Resolved race testing test races:
<jodh>       lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/upstart-shrink-notifications-add-race-checking-tests
<jodh>     - Fixed bug 1338637 (https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1338637/+merge/225945).
<ubottu> bug 1338637 in upstart "continuous re-exec can result in a build-up of inotify fds" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1338637
<jodh>     - Fixed bug 1338968
<ubottu> bug 1338968 in upstart "async upstart crashes after many re-execs" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1338968
<jodh>       (https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1338968/+merge/225981).
<cjwatson> robru: isn't it brilliant
<jodh>     - Reviewed lp:~xnox/upstart/shrink-notifications.
<slangasek> cjwatson: speaking of which, do you know what the ~platform account on people.c.c is for? :-P  The Landing Team silo data is there, so I assumed it was ok to put robru on the list so he could push some html/js there
<jodh>     - Working with xnox on resolving test issues with lp:~xnox/upstart/shrink-notifications.
<jodh> * upstart
<jodh>   - Investigating bugs 1339847 / 1222705.
<ubottu> bug 1222705 in upstart (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1339847 init assert failure: alloc.c:633: Assertion failed in nih_unref: ref != NULL" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222705
<jodh> â
<sil2100> slangasek: from time to time, for instance just now it suddenly stopped executing the onChange trigger - and then suddenly started executing those again, for no particular reason it seems
<cjwatson> slangasek: was originally a desktop team thing I think - ask seb128?  But I think originally it was all of platform^WUE
<cjwatson> must not have been kept up to date
<robru> slangasek, funny thing is, queuebot finds silos by screenscraping that apache dir listing, so I definitely need to not interfere with that ;-)
<slangasek> robru: right - but there's nothing wrong with putting the code in a subdir :)
<robru> slangasek, true
<cjwatson> or maybe it was just that the desktop team were the main users
<sil2100> slangasek, robru: it would be nice to have all the 'landing' stuff in one domain instead of being spread around various private lillypilly subdirs ;)
<slangasek> yes, indeed
<robru> sil2100, yeah, ok, I'll move it int here today ;-)
<slangasek> sil2100: do /you/ have access to ~platform?
<sil2100> slangasek: I doubt it, but let me try
<sil2100> slangasek: no, sadly...
<slangasek> sil2100: ok... remind me later that we should fix that
<sil2100> slangasek: sure, excellent
<slangasek> jodh: â != ^C
<slangasek> bhuey: your turn now
<bhuey> Last week
<bhuey> -finish all changes to get the 7u60 package in shape for upload to launchpad, ARM HotSpot naming conventions etc
<bhuey> -began looking at tck testing and Oracle security patches
<bhuey> This week
<bhuey> -look at the patch structure and layout
<bhuey> -look at individual patch contents to understand the changes and maybe how they can be exploited
<bhuey> -apply security patches to 7u60. Avoid icedtea 2.5 and later for now
<bhuey> -generate a patchset for the first batch of security packages, resolve patch conflicts, email to Matthias
<bhuey> -generate a second patchset for the next batch (half day of time, max hopefully)
<bhuey> Next week
<bhuey> ...
<bhuey> -integrate all of the security updates and do a build on them to to see what fails
<bhuey> -actually start setting up the tck, start running it. I'm having to push it back all of the time because other issues
<bhuey> done
<bhuey> ...
<mvo_> Shorter week, one day off
<mvo_> citrain:
<mvo_>  - bootcamp
<mvo_>  - daily landing meetings
<mvo_>  - created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/citrain/NewbieGuide
<mvo_>  - landing team duty (for a significant amount of time)
<mvo_> click:
<mvo_>  - code reviews
<mvo_>  - feedback on ClickPackageSigning
<mvo_>  - lp:~mvo/click/fix-autopkgtest
<mvo_>  - lp:~mvo/click/frameworks.json
<mvo_>  - weekly QA call
<mvo_> apt:
<mvo_>  - mailing list merging
<mvo_>  - debug/merge/fix Bug#756317, Bug#753531, Bug#753297,
<mvo_>    Bug#754041, Bug#742882, Bug#753531, Bug#754124
<mvo_>  - review/merge debiandoc-sgml -> docbook transition
<mvo_>  - Debug python-apt multiarch issue with didrocks for hit
<mvo_>    ubuntu-developer-tools-center
<mvo_> misc:
<mvo_>  - 360 review
<mvo_>  - some "fun" with hr.canonical.com
<mvo_>  - unattended-upgrades: fix pep8 issues
<mvo_> patch pilot:
<mvo_>  - #1339244, iperf, #1299975, #1338845, #1335324,
<mvo_>    lp:~zctgbhu/plymouth/bug-1339954, #1247219,
<mvo_>    lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/utopic/gupnp-dlna/use-new-vala, lp #1337746
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1337746 in gui-ufw (Ubuntu Trusty) "GUFW generates only Input rules " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1337746
<mvo_> Next week: three days off
<mvo_> (done)
<cjwatson> Launchpad:
<cjwatson>  - Organised a launchpad-buildd deployment.
<cjwatson>  - Optimising another part of the PPA publisher (some preparatory changes, plus https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/optimise-publish-a/+merge/226312).
<cjwatson>  - Working on one of the two remaining known scalingstack blockers (fixing the hostname in sbuild configuration).
<cjwatson>  - Tweaked dput to use the new PPA upload path, which we'll need for RTM.
<cjwatson> click:
<cjwatson>  - Finished testing 0.4.29 and published it.  Reviewed Michael's subsequent autopkgtest fix.
<cjwatson>  - Prepared initial branch to fix integration test installation location.  Need to process review feedback.
<cjwatson>  - Went through the coverage report and added a bunch of unit tests to improve it.  More would certainly be possible but I think we're at or near the point of diminishing returns now.
<cjwatson> parted 3:
<cjwatson>  - Reviewed, adjusted, and landed most of Phillip's d-i changes.  (There's not much point landing partman-base until parted itself is ready.)
<cjwatson>  - Did most of the rebasing of parted's packaging.
<cjwatson>  - Need to fix up the ABI files (or possibly mangle them into .symbols files).
<cjwatson>  - Probably need to modernise its use of debhelper.
<cjwatson>  - Will doubtless end up in Debian NEW for a while.
<cjwatson> libav transition:
<cjwatson>  - Demoted mplayer/mencoder reverse-dependencies to -proposed and blocked them there.
<cjwatson>  - Trying to figure out how to make metapackage and image changes matching recent Ubuntu Studio seed changes.  (This is at least somewhat linked with libav, unfortunately.)
<cjwatson>  - First-pass review of Åukasz's libaudclient packaging.
<cjwatson> Joined the landing team on a rotation for July; expecting to do about one day in three.  First shift was yesterday, second is tomorrow.  Yesterday seems to have gone smoothly.
<cjwatson> Some more acceptance testing of the new CI engine.
<cjwatson> Finished the current Haskell transition.  \o/
<cjwatson> Submitted DebConf talk proposals.
<cjwatson> ISP switch.  Seems to have gone smoothly and I have native IPv6, yay.  Will be sorting out line bonding as a separate step.
<cjwatson> ..
<bdmurray> this covers 2 weeks as I was out last thursday
<bdmurray> irc discussion with #webops regarding retracer status and rabbitmq connection counts
<bdmurray> added a nagios check for the retraces (LP: #973504)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 973504 in Daisy "We need a nagios check for the retracer processes" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973504
<bdmurray> investigated and updated daisy to accept crashes without a StacktraceAddressSignature
<bdmurray> recompiled gdb with pitti's dropped patch (bug 1233185)
<bdmurray> uploaded new version of gdb to utopic, trusty-proposed, daisy-plucker's daisy-seeds ppa
<ubottu> bug 1233185 in gdb (Ubuntu Trusty) "gdb-multiarch cannot read ARM cores: "wrong size gregset struct in core file"" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233185
<bdmurray> submitted RT #72982 regarding updating gdb on the retracers
<bdmurray> uploaded new version of apport-test-crashes to facilitate testing with the new version of gdb
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding retracer log files being out of date on snakefruit
<bdmurray> review of armhf retracing (mostly failing due to missing dbgsym issues)
<bdmurray> tested retracing of armhf crash which uses libmirclient-platform-android
<bdmurray> worked on dpkcomparator changes for cassandra 2.0
<bdmurray> submitted apport bug 1336062 regarding package renaming confusion
<ubottu> bug 1336062 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-retrace on precise confused by source package name changing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1336062
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1336565 regarding different SASes
<bdmurray> uploaded whoopsie branch fixing bug 1328285
<bdmurray> irc discussion with jibel regarding whoopsie system identifier issues
<bdmurray> review of phased updater identified regressions
<ubottu> bug 1336565 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-retrace generates a different StacktraceAddressSignature depending on retracing architecture" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1336565
<ubottu> bug 1328285 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "can not find hardware address" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1328285
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek>  * short week due to US holiday
<slangasek>  * working to identify packages missing debugsyms and resolve them since this is blocking having useful backtraces off the phone
<slangasek>   * bzip2 debhelperized
<slangasek>   * liburcu fixed to actually pass flags to configure (and merge from Debian)
<slangasek>   * jbigkit fixed to not use 'install -s'
<slangasek>  * please support bdmurray for anything he needs to get backtraces working reliably, this is critical for RTM!
<slangasek>  * TB discussions about juju
<slangasek>  * SRU reviews
<slangasek>  * +1 maintenance staffing discussions
<slangasek>  * sorting out landing team rotations for the current month
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<slangasek>  * getting back into the console-setup merge
<slangasek> (done)
<infinity> slangasek: console-setup! \o/
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> I'll get through the merge eventually :P
<slangasek> oh, also working on bug #1323732, which is a blocker for RTM because we need account management to work on a read-only phone
<ubottu> bug 1323732 in adduser (Ubuntu) "adduser should support managing additional password/shadow/group files from libnss-extrausers" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1323732
<slangasek> [TOPIC] meta-topic: topics for meeting
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> a cycle or so ago we did a round-robin thing during the meeting, where people would take turns giving a more in-depth presentation of things they were working on
<slangasek> I thought that worked really well, until we all ran out of things to talk about
<slangasek> but now we're working on new things, and we have new people
<slangasek> would folks like to bring this back again?
<infinity> Depends on if it's an obligation or an opportunity.
<slangasek> it's an obligation :)
<slangasek> but it's only an obligation once over a 13-week period
<robru> slangasek, hehe, so whatever tool is dumping those json files under /~platform/citrain just deletes the whole citrain folder each time it uploads. if I create a directory in there it vanishes within seconds.
<robru> I guess I'll have to make citrain_dashboard or something ;-)
<slangasek> robru: hah.  Well, it's probably a cronjob?
<slangasek> or that, yes
<barry> +1 they were interesting and fun
<slangasek> ok, so that's a +1 from barry, and a +1 from infinity for everyone else having to do them
<robru> slangasek, I abstain because I don't understand
<infinity> slangasek: I think you may be overstating the plusness of my one.
<slangasek> robru: ah, it's just a matter of taking some time during a weekly meeting to tell the team what you're working on - what's cool, what your frustrations are, etc
<cobracommand> does this channel become private during meetings?
<slangasek> robru: it's super-easy :)
<slangasek> cobracommand: no
<robru> slangasek, isn't that what we're already doing? I don't see the difference.
<cobracommand> we just lose voice?
<sil2100> Oh
<bdmurray> +1 from me
<sil2100> Then +1 from me
<xnox> slangasek: starting second week of august?! =)
<infinity> cobracommand: No.  We're in a meeting right now, and you're talking.
<slangasek> robru: in depth, as opposed to just dumping info about your activity, with more of a Q&A
<robru> ah ok
<robru> slangasek, well that's fine
<slangasek> ok
<stgraber> slangasek: sure, it was interesting knowing what others are up to in a bit more details. I'd be happy to talk about what we've been working on for LXC, but that'd have to wait for a while because well, we need to get some stuff done first :)
<slangasek> so I think we'll start with that next week :)
<slangasek> and I'll accept volunteers who want to go first
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<slangasek> anything else this week?
<infinity> Can anyone here who's on the SRU team (yeah, that's a lot of us) have a peruse through the precise and trusty queues for things that you think look point-release-critical?
<infinity> I'll be doing the same, but you may have varying opinions.
<bdmurray> it'd help me out some if somebody could look at bug 1339916 as I'm still a bit swamped with the server side of things
<slangasek> I can do a bit, yes
<ubottu> bug 1339916 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "SystemIdentifier can change between reboots" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1339916
 * xnox is going to see Eminem at the Wembley Stadium tomorrow =) his last gig in London was in 2001
<stgraber> sure, I'll take a look through the queues
<slangasek> bdmurray: wasn't Chipaca going to help with that?
<infinity> slangasek: So, hilariously, access to platform@lillypilly is granted via porting_team
<infinity> slangasek: ie: the same group that grants access to porter boxes.
<slangasek> infinity: oh, so everyone should be in that anyway :)
<infinity> slangasek: All of UE sure should be, IMO.
<slangasek> robru: congrats, you now have access to the porter boxes (as you should)
<infinity> slangasek: (They aren't, but they should be)
<bdmurray> slangasek: I hadn't heard that. jibel just brought this up to me yesterday see also bug 1340063
<infinity> slangasek: Oh, did you file a ticket for adding them to said team?  I was just poking in #is. :P
<ubottu> bug 1340063 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "System identifier returned by GetIdentifier dbus method differs from identifier on errors.u.c" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1340063
<robru> slangasek, porter boxes?
<slangasek> infinity: if you want to route around RT and get them added without me writing mails, go for it
<infinity> slangasek: Well, did you RT or not? :)
<slangasek> infinity: I did for robru, haven't for sil2100
<infinity> slangasek: #?
<slangasek> robru: https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/ISO/BuildInfrastructure/PorterBoxes
<slangasek> infinity: it's already been closed, why do you care about it now? :)
<xnox> bdmurray: does it depend on the status of (a) rfkill / aeroplane mode (b) whether sim card is present (c) whether wifi connection is configured ?
<infinity> slangasek: Oh.  Kay.
<robru> slangasek, sil2100 : aha, there we go! http://people.canonical.com/~platform/citrain_dashboard/
<bdmurray> xnox: I haven't had a chance to look into at all so don't know.
 * doko wants a better armhf porter box ...
<sil2100> robru: awesome o/
<slangasek> bdmurray: well, Chipaca was concerned about making this more reliable... maybe check whether he has time to follow through on these latest bugs
<slangasek> (concerned because it's an issue for push notifications too)
<infinity> doko: Working on getting less crap armhf buildds, might carve one off for a porter at the same time.
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay
<slangasek> robru: great! i guess you'll announce the new location to the phone list :)
<robru> slangasek, naaahhh... I'll just put in a redirect and nobody will notice the change ;-)
<slangasek> robru: and please give a link to the git branch on the page :)
<slangasek> heh, ok
<slangasek> oh, that's 'Source'
<robru> slangasek, link to github is already there
<robru> yeah
<robru> slangasek, do you want a giant 'fork me on github' banner? ;-)
<slangasek> robru: fwiw a url at the bottom of the page would probably be more obvious
<slangasek> doko: what's the status of that RT about armhf porter boxes with mahmoh?
<doko> slangasek, no change yet
<slangasek> ok
<infinity> slangasek: mahmoh and I are getting some stuff set up in 1SS for buildds, I'm not positive, but I suspect the plan might have been to use a node from the same chassis for a porter.
<slangasek> ah, alright
<infinity> slangasek: But I'm not sure anyone had a solid plan, the RT sort of read like "we think Massimo has hardware, so that should be a porter!"
<slangasek> yes, that's exactly how it should have been read
<slangasek> and we had a conversation on IRC where mahmoh confirmed that he did have hardware :)
<slangasek> anyway
<slangasek> shall we adjourn the meeting?
 * stgraber has nothing to add
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<slangasek> thanks, all :)
<barry> thanks!
<xnox> cheers!
<bhuey> later
<mvo_> thanks
<stgraber> thanks!
<sil2100> o/
<robru> thanks!
<jodh> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-12
<jess44> hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-06
<jjohansen> \o
<chrisccoulson> o/
<mdeslaur> hi!
 * sbeattie o/
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  6 16:32:28 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> No announcements this week
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> so, today mostly I am catching up on email/irc from being on holiday
<jdstrand> since a lot of what I do tends to be dictated on email/irc, it is hard to say exactly what I'll be working on this week
<jdstrand> I know I am working on bug #1462489
<ubottu> bug 1462489 in qtsystems-opensource-src (Ubuntu) "Allow apps to keep the screen on" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1462489
<jdstrand> I also want to go through the trello board with tyhicks and try to make it up to date/prioritized/etc. that probably will involve pulling in members of the team here and there
<jdstrand> beyond that, I'll pick something off the board as I have time
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I just published cups-filters and php5 updates
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on the wily php5 merge
<mdeslaur> after that I have a couple of embargoed updates to release this week
<mdeslaur> and will be going down the list as time permits
<mdeslaur> that's it from me, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in hte happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm still working on gcc-pie stuff
<sbeattie> I have some more apparmor patches to review
<sbeattie> The kernel team recently added some arm64 hardware to their testing mix, so I'm fixing up some issues with the kernel qart scripts.
<sbeattie> that's it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<tyhicks> I have a couple embargoed issues to handle
<tyhicks> I'm still pecking away at a bridge from UCT to Trello
<tyhicks> and, hope to get back to AppArmor parser support for kernel keyring mediation
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I will be working on finishing up my review of the dconf patches
<jjohansen> and then I need to look into the overlayfs patches that are making their way upstream
<jjohansen> I also have to revise my outstanding patches for apparmor 2.10, and see if we can't get a 2.10 release pushed out this week
<jjohansen> I also have some mail catchup to do from being out last week
<jjohansen> after that I will get back to the work to upstream the out of tree apparmor patches
<tyhicks> sarnold: I think you're up
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week; I'm also working on th eppc64-diag follow-on MIRs, will give a quick look at hallyn's new cpuset cgroup pam modules, and probably review some apparmor patches.
<sarnold> chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I'm expecting a thunderbird update this week (that didn't happen last week). I've also got a chromium update to get out
<chrisccoulson> Firefox was released late last week, but I haven't pushed updates out yet because precise/x86 is just crashing withing seconds of starting up
<chrisccoulson> So I'm trying to figure that out
<chrisccoulson> I've nearly finished reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~justinmcp/oxide/pepper-flash/+merge/234058 - hopefully will finish that before EOD
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I'll be working through Oxide bugs as usual
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/elinks.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gallery2.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pxz.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/s3ql.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/falconpl.html
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  6 16:53:39 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-06-16.32.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> thanks tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-07
<matsubara> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul  7 16:00:14 2015 UTC.  The chair is matsubara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> o/
<matsubara> hello there, welcome to this week's Ubuntu server meeting!
<ddellav> \o
<matsubara> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<matsubara> no action items from last meeting
<matsubara> #topic Wily Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development
<matsubara> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<matsubara> #subtopic Release Bugs
<matsubara> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<matsubara> Wily Alpha 2 by the end of the month.
<teward> o/
<jamespage> o/
<matsubara> there's a security bug, high importance and no one assigned.
<kickinz1> o/
<matsubara> bug 1453738
<ubottu> bug 1453738 in ecryptfs-utils (Ubuntu Wily) "installer in LVM mode sets up broken encrypted swap, using duplicate unencrypted swap" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1453738
<matsubara> is that bug something someone in the server team should take on?
<matsubara> looks like it's well understood and some ubuntu developers are discussing in the bug report. let's move on
<matsubara> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> a few things
<caribou> wrote a blog post on Curtin/Maas customization; comments welcomed
<caribou> http://caribou.kamikamamak.com/2015/06/26/custom-partitioning-with-maas-and-curtin-2/
<caribou> & working on a kernel crash dump subordinate charm
<caribou> all for me, thanks
<matsubara> Thanks caribou
<matsubara> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> nothing new to report from me
<matsubara> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Hi and hm, nothing right now. Are there questions/new issues?
<matsubara> No questions for smb, it seems. Thanks smb.
<matsubara> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<matsubara> ODS Tokyo is open for submissions
<matsubara> other than that, anything other conferences happening soon?
<matsubara> I guess no, let's move on
<matsubara> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<matsubara> no server team event
<matsubara> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<matsubara> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<matsubara> same time next week, coreycb will chair
<matsubara> thanks everyone
<jamespage> ta matsubara
<matsubara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul  7 16:11:44 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-07-16.00.moin.txt
<caribou> thanks matsubara
<kickinz1> thanks
<arosales> thanks matsubara for chairing
<chiluk> No kernel meeting today, Joe's out.
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-09
<infinity> \o/
<sil2100> o/
<pitti> \o
<barry> /o/
<caribou> o/
<pitti> caribou: we had that already
 * barry does the ascii macerana
<caribou> \o\
<sil2100> Maybe slangasek is sick today?
 * slangasek waves
<cyphermox> o/
<sil2100> I know he didn't feel too good yesterday
<sil2100> Oh, here he is o/
<slangasek> not sick, just tardy :)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  9 15:05:03 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti)
<slangasek> caribou stgraber bdmurray infinity robru cyphermox pitti slangasek barry sil2100 doko
<caribou> oh, I get to start
<slangasek> caribou: yep :)
<caribou> Bugfix :
<caribou>  - ifenslave ambigous message
<caribou>    * identified root cause, open Debian bug with patch
<caribou> Crash Dump
<caribou>  - Worked on Kdump enablement cloud-init script
<caribou> Charm dev
<caribou>  - Developed Kernel Crash Dump subordinate charm
<caribou> (done)
<slangasek> ah, stgraber probably not around
<slangasek> bdrung_work:
<slangasek> eh
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<slangasek> stupid tabcomplete
<infinity> We might not have a Brian either.
<slangasek> yes, we indeed might not since I approved his vacation request
<slangasek> infinity:
<infinity> Short (3-day) week:
<infinity>  - General SRU/AA work
<infinity>  - Helped apw sort out ubuntu-fan for wily
<infinity>  - Worked with apw on ubuntu-fan SRU proposal
<infinity>  - Worked with rbasak on docker.io SRUs
<infinity>  - Found, debugged, and ushered in a fix for a kernel panic on the arm64 buildds
<infinity>  - Working on LP: #1414818 for IBM
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1414818 in opensm (Ubuntu) "Add missing OFED packages for Ubuntu 14.04.2" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1414818
<infinity>  - Identified casper backports needed for 14.04.3 and got them in with apw
<infinity>  - Kernel SRU wrangling for 14.04.3
<infinity>  - Some merges and bugfixes in wily
<infinity>  - Failed to sleep all week
<infinity> (done)
<pitti> ssh infinity sleep 28800
<caribou> sleep: command not found
<slangasek> pitti: underlying kernel bug, never puts the CPU into anything below C0
<pitti> robru?
<slangasek> robru:
<infinity> slangasek: That's the most accurate nerd analogy for insomnia that I've ever seen.
<cyphermox> robru might be in C3?
<slangasek> heh
<cyphermox> should I?
<slangasek> cyphermox: go ahead
<cyphermox>  * fixed d-i overlay support (net-retriever, base-installer, apt-setup)
<cyphermox>  * updated sg3-utils (+ added udeb) for QEMU/IPR support for multipath
<cyphermox>  * finished multipath-tools merge
<cyphermox>  * updated partman-multipath, partman-base, hw-detect for naming change
<cyphermox>  * investigated/fixed tgt for proposed migration (blocked multipath-tools)
<cyphermox>  * investigated lava-dispatcher (blocked multipath-tools, skipped)
<cyphermox>  * fix fwupdate FTBFS
<cyphermox>  * SRUs:
<cyphermox>    - debian-installer-utils bug 1402042 (support --- in user-params)
<ubottu> bug 1402042 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu Utopic) "console= parameters need to be added before -- on kernel cmdline" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1402042
<cyphermox>    - udev (systemd) bug 1437375 for trusty (exception for ibmveth MAC)
<ubottu> bug 1437375 in systemd (Ubuntu Trusty) "[udev] Adding "Austin" adapter to Ubuntu partition take over system network interface" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437375
<cyphermox>    - partman-auto bug 1461860 for trusty (ppc64el recipe)
<ubottu> bug 1461860 in partman-auto (Ubuntu Trusty) "Installation scheme based on Separate /home, /usr, /var, and /tmp partitions fail" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1461860
<cyphermox>  * debugging multipath-tools:
<cyphermox>    - bug 1463046: local HDs found as multipath when they shouldn't be
<ubottu> bug 1463046 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "installation of multipath-tools-boot can break boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1463046
<cyphermox>    - bug 1468897: skip USB devices
<ubottu> bug 1468897 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "multipath creates binding for Removable(USB) drives" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1468897
<cyphermox>  * investigating iso smoketest failures
<cyphermox> (done)
<pitti> autopkgtest cloud:
<pitti>  - britney: Add much simpler AMQP/cloud based autopkgtest triggering, to get rid of lp:auto-package-testing and much indirection+duplication (landed)
<pitti>  - britney: Add autopkgtest result retrieval from swift (MP pending review)
<pitti>  - create swift server mock for writing britney tests
<pitti>  - do britney run for wily, triggering 500 tests; various robustifications and fixes from these
<pitti>  - Rewrite autopkgtest-cloud's swift results retriever to be suitable for inclusion into debci
<pitti> systemd: package/test 222 (landed now), various bug fixes (#1450009, 1471258)
<pitti> ecryptfs-utils: Fix broken cryptswap configuration with LVM, clean up on upgrades, prepare SRUs (bug 1453738), fix broken libecryptfs0 shipping libecryptfs.so.1
<ubottu> bug 1453738 in ecryptfs-utils (Ubuntu Vivid) "installer in LVM mode sets up broken encrypted swap, using duplicate unencrypted swap" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1453738
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - review https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/apport/support-ppa-packages/+merge/263437, almost ready now
<pitti>  - merges: openvpn, policykit-1, ruby-defaults
<pitti> [END]
<slangasek>  * short week: holiday last Friday, sick yesterday
<slangasek>  * miscellaneous SRU processing
<slangasek>  * helping set up ci train silo for the upcoming gcc 5 transition
<slangasek>  * livecd-rootfs sponsorship to move a scope out of the phone rootfs
<slangasek>  * TB discussions about ubuntu-fan and SRUability
<slangasek>  * discussions around KVM support for ppc64el on 14.04
<slangasek>  * discussions around UEFI capsule update support
<slangasek>  * finished paperwork for new Java hire, who will be starting July 27
<slangasek>  * continuing search for Foundations engineers
<slangasek> (done)
<barry> short week due to usa holiday and pto
<barry> more python 3.5 test rebuilds, with patches going upstream and into debian as appropriate
<barry> python issue #15014 fixes RFC 4952 AUTH initial response (py3.5 fix for regression breaking packages in the wild)
<barry> more git-dpm conversion work for dpmt
<barry> lazr.delegates 2.0.3 (upstream) and 2.0.3-1 (debian) for launchpad related fix
<barry> zope.interface 4.1.2-1 new upstream and cross build fixes
<barry> reported LP: #1473093 (checkbox-ng for py3.5)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1473093 in Next Generation Checkbox (CLI) "tests fail on python3.5" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1473093
<barry> --done--
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Manually prepare languagepack packages for most important languages
<sil2100> - Prepare livecd-rootfs for youtube scope removal
<sil2100> - Coordinate device and custom tarball landings for OTA-5
<sil2100> - Coordinate landings for OTA-5, image preparations
<sil2100> - Documenting the new release schedule for OTA upgrades
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings and discussions
<sil2100> - Gathering feedback regarding derived vs. overlay
<sil2100> - Discussions regarding fixing the broken wily language-packs
<sil2100> - Selective work on triaging the appmenu-qt5 bug with hiding windows
<sil2100> - Cleanup in assigned bugs
<sil2100> - Various changes and improvements to commitlog generation infrastructure
<sil2100> - Discussions about the setup of new channels
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - announced the GCC 5 transition
<doko> - reviewd and fixed 30 GCC 5 ftbfs in Debian, merged to Ubuntu
<doko> - populated https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-016/+packages
<doko> - getting angry with unmerged packages since 2013 ... trafficserver
<doko> - python3.5 beta3
<doko> (done)
 * infinity checks if trafficserver is his...
<pitti> unmerged packages> amen
<infinity> Oh look, it is.
<infinity> *sigh*
<infinity> doko: Hint taken. :P
<doko> ;-P
<pitti> those are the ones which really drive me away from fixing -proposed stuff in some cases (becoming TIL on even more crappy packages)
<slangasek> :)
<infinity> pitti: Yeah, it's a vicous cycle.  Cause you end up TIL, then you don't have enough time for merges, then someone else gets angry with you for not merging, then they get annoyed enough to merge it themselves, then they end up being the one who lags, repeat.
<slangasek> alrighty - any questions over status?
<pitti> infinity: heh, yes; we still suffer a lot from the old years where we tossed just about anything into ubuntu that people threw at us..
<slangasek> fwiw I've asked bdmurray to work on getting better reporting out of MoM so that we can actually see "merges I'm responsible for, sorted by age"
<barry> bdmurray: can you add "merges i will never get to, let's just be honest about it"?
<doko> infinity, pitti: would be nice to track autoremovals in unstable, and then have a separate section for these in update_excuses
<infinity> slangasek: If I could get age out of "grep-merges", that would do it.
<slangasek> infinity: heh, never heard of 'grep-merges'.  But if the main report would list the age, presumably that would give you this?
<infinity> doko: Yeah, looking at trafficserver, it probably wants a removal from wily and then a sync after the gcc-5 transition, so it can FTBFS. :P
<infinity> slangasek: Yeah, not sure where grep-merges pulls from, but I assume it's the same report you're talking about.
<slangasek> merges.ubuntu.com/main.html etc
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Team changes
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Team changes
<slangasek> I mentioned earlier in the meeting that stgraber was probably not around... there's a specific reason for this :)
<pitti> noooo!
<slangasek> as many of you have seen, stgraber has been working full time on lxd together with folks in CDO for quite a while now
<slangasek> this situation is now being formalized - StÃ©phane is now the LXD technical lead, reporting on the server team!
<sil2100> Oh no!
<infinity> And now I'm the shortest member of the team.  This is unacceptable.
<slangasek> so congratulations to stgraber on the new role, and we wish him well - while making no promises not to continue harrassing him with Foundations questions ;)
<sil2100> The foundations are cracking!
<slangasek> this means that, once the paperwork goes through, we will be hiring for not one, but two Foundations engineer positions
<pitti> infinity: ^ you have a way to rectify that then :)
<slangasek> so pester all your brilliant and short friends to apply
<sil2100> hmmm ;)
<barry> slangasek: is one of those the java dude?
<slangasek> barry: this would be two, in addition to javadude (whose name is Tiago)
<barry> oh!  we have a winner!  cool
<sil2100> Woohoo
<sil2100> Damn, I'd like to have more time for some system-image server work, grrr
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else this week?
<pitti> after spending the fourth or so day on cleaning up after "we messed up swap space config in the installer years ago"
<pitti> I wondered if we should just stop doing it completely -- it's 2015..
<barry> pitti: yeah, i still see that on some of my machines ;)
<pitti> kirkland mentioned "swapspace", which dynamically creates swap files on demand on your root partition (or perhaps /var) instead of eternally blocking an entire partition
<pitti> does anyone have experience with that?
<slangasek> I don't think "dynamically" creating swap partitions sounds like a great idea to me
<infinity> pitti: I have no experience with userspace swapfile magic like that, but I might be inclined to agree that switching from partitions to files for desktop installs would be reasonable.
<infinity> Maybe.
<pitti> I mean, we need to fix ecryptfs-setup-swap either way
<slangasek> there was discussion long ago about switching from swap partition to swap file; I don't know why it was never done
<pitti> but as a matter of fact, everyone who installed with "encrypt my home dir" between perhaps precise and vivid had no swap at all
<slangasek> pitti: I'm missing context - what's the problem with ecryptfs-setup-swap?
<pitti> slangasek: there were various bugs in that and ubiquity which prevented having swap space at all, or in the case of LVM having unencryted plus encrypted where the unencrypted one won
<slangasek> erm?  I thought the desktop LVM+crypt recipe gave you a single encrypted VG and nothing else
<pitti> i. e. we already seeem to have a non-negligible user base with no swap at all, and not seem to have too many complaints
<pitti> slangasek: no, not LVM crypt; unencrypted LVM plus "encrypt my home dir" (ecryptfs)
<slangasek> ah
<pitti> or just plain simple partitioning plus ecryptfs
<ogra_> pitti, just keep in mind that no swap at all makes the kernel behave differently ...
<slangasek> so the decision of whether to enable swap at install time should in no way be based on whether the average user noticed they didn't have swap
<ogra_> (in case you consider dropping swap altogether)
<slangasek> the average user shouldn't need to know what swap is, and the decision of whether to enable it for the user should be based on whether it gives the best user experience
<pitti> ogra_: well, it wasn't an active decision -- those were years old bugs in ecryptfs/ubiquity which only surfaced with the systemd transition
<barry> is it even possible to go back and fix all those installs that effectively have no swap, say in some kind of update?
<ogra_> pitti, right, it looked to me you are discussing a future default though
<pitti> right, so there's various alternatives: only configure swap partition with < 4 GB of RAM
<pitti> or do away with having to decide about static swap at installer time and do dynamic swap
<slangasek> pitti: where does this 4GB number come from?  Sounds arbitrary to me :)
<pitti> ogra_: yes, it made me wonder whether "swap partition" is still a good answer
<pitti> slangasek: exactly
<infinity> pitti: I use far more than 4G normally. :P
<pitti> OTOH, creating 32 GB of swap space on a 16 GB RAM system is just an utter waste
<pitti> (by the old "twice your RAM" rule of thumb)
<slangasek> I have 8GB of RAM, and I have a swap partition, and I want a good reason if you're going to take it away ;)
<pitti> (not sure what partman does, though)
<infinity> partman-swap is a little smarter than that.
<slangasek> pitti: that's clearly not the right rule of thumb for high-mem systems, but that means we should fix the rule of thumb, not remove swap
<infinity> I think it's "twice your RAM up to X, then a set value" or something.
<pitti> yeah, I'm sure it does, but I wanted to get a feeling what you think about replacing it with dynamic swap files
<slangasek> pitti: take out the "dynamic" and yes
<slangasek> any swap file is "dynamic" in the sense that the user can "easily" resize it
<infinity> I think files are probably the right answer (except maybe for servers, but serious server people tend to write their own recipes anyway).
<slangasek> but we don't need to support it being dynamic initially
<pitti> well, "swap file" gets rid of this ever-breaking ecryptfs-setup-swap; but "dynamic" is really half the point here
<pitti> (FWIW, I don't know what swapfile does exactly, I just got told an hour or so ago by kirkland that it's on-demand in some fashion)
<infinity> pitti: How does dynamic work?  When we're hitting the wall, does it just add another swapfile, and delete it when we don't need it anymore?
<pitti> err, "swapspace" is the package, not swapfile
<slangasek> pitti: I think it'd be a good idea if you chatted with cjwatson to understand what the blockers were for us never having switched to swap files (aside from ENOTIME)
<pitti>  Small, stable system add-on that continuously and automatically adapts
<infinity> slangasek: I'd guess ENOTIME, and also fragmentation/speed concerns on rotary disks.
<pitti>  available virtual memory space to your actual memory needs.  Claims disk space
<pitti>  for use as swap space when needed; frees it up for use by the filesystem when
<pitti>  not needed.
<pitti> well, the other thing is I don't want to "own" this project -- I'm oversubscribed already
<pitti> but since this doesn't seem to be unanimous, I guess I just crawl back into my corner :)
<pitti> (it really seemed to me like a case of "OMG nobody threw this out yet?")
<pitti> but if people are still using it, so be it
<tyhicks> it would be nice to remove swap partition setup goop from ecryptfs-utils
<tyhicks> (thanks for fixing ecryptfs-setup-swap, pitti :)
<tyhicks> I don't think we can do away with swap completely
<pitti> tyhicks: fingers crossed that this is the last bug :)
<slangasek> pitti: I think there's a consensus for moving to a swap partition.  I think having a *daemon* trying to manage the size of your swap at runtime is crazypants
<slangasek> sorry, moving to a swap /file/
<pitti> slangasek: file? ah yes
<tyhicks> pitti: where would the swapfile be stored? does swapfile handle encryption?
<pitti> tyhicks: I don't know anything about swapspace, so I don't know
<pitti> kirkland looked into it some time ago and felt that it was worth taking a look
<pitti> but if it's anything like a swap file it would just use the underlying fs' encryption
<tyhicks> but encrypted home is per-user
<pitti> well, not *that* encryption (ecryptfs)
<tyhicks> we can't put the swapfile in /home/foo/
<pitti> e-s-swapspace is cryptsetup
<tyhicks> ah, ok
<pitti> no, should probably be in /var/cache or so
<pitti> or maybe swapspace is even just using unallocated blocks
<infinity> Obviously, you should just put your swapfile in a tmpfs, so it's zapped on power loss and you don't care about encryption.  Duh.
<pitti> infinity: that's a *great* idea!
<infinity> pitti: I KNOW.
<pitti> what was the name of that? memdouble or so (from DOS times)
<slangasek> I'm not sure tmpfs has the right semantics for this.  Maybe we should use overlayfs for it
<infinity> We have that too, it's called zram!
<infinity> And works quite well.
<pitti> and then you recursively use it 8 times, problem solved
<slangasek> that way we only have to store the delta of the memory
<pitti> ok, I think we're through with this discussion :)
<tyhicks> "tmpfs puts everything into the kernel internal caches and grows and
<tyhicks> shrinks to accommodate the files it contains and is able to swap
<tyhicks> unneeded pages out to swap space."
<tyhicks> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/tmpfs.txt
<tyhicks> infinity: I know you were joking, but that would make for a fun test :)
<infinity> tyhicks: Yeahp, and swapping to yourself is awesome.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  9 15:50:23 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-09-15.05.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks :)
<barry> thanks!
<infinity> tyhicks: tmpfs+zram stresses the kernel's tiny brain pretty hard already, adding your swapfile in the tmpfs would probably just make it cry.
<caribou> thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-10
<Kilos> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-11
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 11 16:32:09 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Philip MuÅ¡kovac (yofel) provided a debdiff for trusty for kinit (LP: #1595507)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1595507 in kinit (Ubuntu Xenial) "World readable X11 Cookie key logger" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1595507
<tyhicks> BjÃ¶rn Michaelsen (Sweetshark) provided debdiffs for Xenial, Wily, and Precise for libreoffice
<tyhicks> Stefan Bader (smb) provided a debdiff for wily for xen
<tyhicks> Trent Lloyd (lathiat) provided a debdiff for precise to fix a regression in the last security update for passenger (LP: #1575220)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1575220 in passenger (Debian) "puppet broken after libapache2-mod-passenger upgrade" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575220
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> and am in the midst of publishing some usns
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll be going down the usn list
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I'm poking through the yakkety rebuild failures list, looking for pie related failrues
<sbeattie> I'm going to try to finish up the pillow/python-imaging update I had been working a while ago, and maybe pick up another update.
<sbeattie> I have some kernel signoffs to do, and some other bakcground tasks to take on.
<sbeattie> that's probably it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm on CVE triage this week
<tyhicks> I have an ecryptfs-utils update to put out
<tyhicks> would be nice to circle back around to the apparmor python utils patch that I need to do a v2 spin of so that I can finish the apparmor upload
<tyhicks> and I'll be working on seccomp logging changes for snappy dev mode
<tyhicks> sarnold: go ahead (jj isn't in this channel right now)
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week reviewing biometryd and related tools
<sarnold> I can't recall what's on the list after that, but once I'm done I'll just move on to the next card
<sarnold> I'm hoping to hear back from tvoss (he may have already replied, timezones are sometimes wonderful things :) about some questions I had about c++14 idioms.. it's a dense language.
<sarnold> I can probably just leave those questions until he replies there, there's a lot of code there to review..
<sarnold> that's me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> This week I've got thunderbird 45 to get out - I was hoping that would have been last week, but I've had difficulty getting it building on trusty/i386 (have worked around that for now)
<chrisccoulson> I shall also be preparing the oxide 1.16 release
<chrisccoulson> I need to also fix bug 1601887 (just been reported)
<ubottu> bug 1601887 in Oxide "camera is inverted and rotated on M10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1601887
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, assuming there are no other distractions this week I'll be working through Oxide tasks as usual
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> odd bug
<chrisccoulson> Last week's distraction btw (in addition to thunderbird) was bug 1599236 :)
<ubottu> bug 1599236 in Oxide "Tooltips in Flash content have stopped working" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1599236
<chrisccoulson> Which turned out to be a build system issue
<chrisccoulson> That wasn't fun to debug
<tyhicks> build system isn't the first thing that comes to mind when reading that bug title :)
<sarnold> heh
<tyhicks> ratliff: you're up :)
<sarnold> it'll be fun to see how an inverted and rotated image is also a build bug...
<chrisccoulson> heh
<ratliff> I'm working through a number of setup tasks - installed a new hard drive and configured ubumirror to create a local mirror of the archive
<ratliff> prepping for the upcoming Snappy and Cloud sprints primarily
<ratliff> that's it for me
<tyhicks> ratliff: don't hesitate to ping me about any questions you have while doing sprint prep
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/hawtjni.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ntopng.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/opensaml2.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/nsd.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lhasa.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<teward> nope, other than a Thank You to the Security Team for keeping Ubuntu secure, and for all your efforts on that front :)
<tyhicks> thank you, teward :)
<teward> you're welcome :)
<tyhicks> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 11 16:49:21 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-11-16.32.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thank you!
<cholcombe> gnuoy, are we doing this meeting?
<gnuoy> cholcombe, yes, in #opnestack-meeting-4
<gnuoy> *openstack
<cholcombe> gnuoy, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-12
<nacc_> o/ (a little early)
<caribou> \o (one minute ahead)
<powersj> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<smoser> o/
<nacc> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 12 16:02:20 2016 UTC.  The chair is nacc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<nacc> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<nacc> afaict, there were no previous action points?
<nacc> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<nacc> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<nacc> anything on yakkety to discuss?
<caribou> nacc: yes;
<caribou> nacc: do you remember the clamav git tree issue ?
<nacc> caribou: off the top of my head, no :)
<nacc> caribou: was that the one that went backwards in the publishing history?
<caribou> nacc: neverming
<caribou> nacc: different issue, I'm the one with wired crossed :)
<nacc> caribou: :)
<rharper>  o/
<caribou> The clamav merge MP is just waiting for final review
<nacc> caribou: ah great; i'll try and take a look later today (although rbasak still has to do the actual sponsorship :)
<nacc> anyone else with any yakkety discussion?
<nacc> #subtopic Release Bugs
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<nacc> (note i fixed the wiki irccommands page, which still had -w as the link)
<rbasak> Sorry, I've been focused entirely on MySQL. I'm coming out of that hole now. I'm coming out of that hole now though. I hope to catch up on reviews and sponsoring this week.
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<caribou> rbasak:  I can upload clamav if it can help
<nacc> rbasak: as we had discussed earlier, i'll try and at least help with the reviews; have you had a cahnce to push your import-linter?
<rbasak> nacc: no, I should do that. Sorry.
<nacc> rbasak: np; just want to make sure we're on the same set of tools
<cpaelzer> looking at the bugs, there are two new libvirt bugs - who is looking at them atm - smb?
<rbasak> nacc: pushed
<nacc> rbasak: thanks!
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, are you looking at y or x report? wrt to your libvirt question
<cpaelzer> x
<cpaelzer> I havent read the details, just checked the new/unassigned ones and seeing two libvirt
<cpaelzer> bug 1571209
<nacc> i think that's LP: #1561019 and LP: #1571209
<ubottu> bug 1571209 in libvirt (Ubuntu Xenial) "Sockfile check retries too short for a busy system boot" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571209
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1561019 in libvirt (Ubuntu) "copied cpu flags don't match host cpu" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1561019
<nacc> :)
<cpaelzer> yes
<jgrimm> second one has definitely been around awhile
<nacc> I believe hallyn had looked at the cpu flags one
<nacc> jgrimm: i think that's the one i was mentioning to you before as to whether someone should pick it back up
<jgrimm> ah, ok will look at it offline
<jgrimm> give me an action
<jgrimm> to check whether it needs some assigned t
<nacc> #action jgrimm to review libvirt bugs (LP: #1561019) for reassignment
<meetingology> ACTION: jgrimm to review libvirt bugs (LP: #1561019) for reassignment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1561019 in libvirt (Ubuntu) "copied cpu flags don't match host cpu" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1561019
<jgrimm> tx
<nacc> if nothing else, moving on
<nacc> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> been quite busy with four kdump-tools bugs on s390x & ppc64el
<caribou> hoping to SRU them shortly
<nacc> caribou: all related to that reworking? or new bugs?
<caribou> nacc: bug fixed in yakkety mostly & one new bug
<nacc> caribou: ah ok
<caribou> so SRU for all of them
<nacc> caribou: do you have a good testing environment across all the arches for kdump/kexec (and all the myriad of combinations for backing storage)?
<caribou> I can list them here if needed
<caribou> nacc: short answer : no :)
<nacc> caribou: heh :)
<nacc> was just wondering
<caribou> I've been working on DEP8 tests but they're to unstable to be pushed to the archive
<caribou> they all require forcing a kernel crash and qemu tends not to be able to recover correctly, hence blocking the test
<nacc> yep, makes sense
<jgrimm> caribou, very nice
<caribou> oh, and one new upstream sosreport release
<caribou> that's all I have
<caribou> still want the bug numbers ?
<nacc> i guess it doesn't hurt to record them
<caribou> LP: #1571590 LP: #1568952 LP: #1599561 LP: #1570775
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1571590 in makedumpfile (Ubuntu Xenial) "pVM:pinelp2:ubuntu 16.04: Network is unreachable when using ssh in kdump" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571590
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1568952 in makedumpfile (Ubuntu Xenial) "ISST-LTE:pVM:thymelp2:ubuntu 16.04: change "maxcpus=1" to "nr_cpus=1" in kdump-tools" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1599561 in makedumpfile (Ubuntu Xenial) "Ubuntu 16.04.01 kdump: IP prefix is missing in the directory name after first dump during kdump over ssh." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1599561
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1570775 in makedumpfile (Ubuntu Xenial) "makekdump should re-exec with cio_ignore on s390x" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570775
<nacc> caribou: thanks!
<nacc> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<arges> nothing to report. everything is awesome.
<nacc> yay!
<nacc> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<nacc> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<nacc> nothing planned afaik
<nacc> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<powersj> quick qa update: ppc64 vm is working now after resolving proxy issues with IS. Curtin ppc64 can now be run on it. I manually modified the jenkins tests, but need to go back and update it through Jenkins Job Builder today.
<powersj> Quickly looking at curtin-vmtest failure (403) that has gone on since March and then will start looking at cloud-init-ci work.
<nacc> powersj: oh sorry!
<nacc> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
<nacc> powersj: great to hear!
<powersj> thx would also still like to meet with folks to ask questions and gather thoughts
<nacc> powersj: i think you're always welcome to ask on IRC and on the ML (or here, tbh)
<powersj> k
<nacc> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<nacc> flipping back to the open discussion, anyone have anything?
<nacc> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<nacc> coreycb is currently set to chair, jul 19 at 16:00 UTC
<nacc> non-server team bug folks are done, we'll switch topics to that
<nacc> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
<rbasak> I need to defer again, sorry. I will dedicate a day to catch up this week in time for next week's meeting.
<coreycb> nacc, got it, I'll make a note of it :)
<nacc> rbasak: np, i will try and help out too, now that we have a shared spreadhseet
<rbasak> Thanks, appreciated.
<nacc> coreycb: i'll also send you a reminder email :)
<coreycb> nacc, thanks
<teward> *late again*
<nacc> alright, thanks everyone!
<nacc> teward: oh did you want to bring up any nginx stuff?
<teward> nacc: all detailed in my blog post, but for the future we're going to have to track mainline again
<teward> just for the radar: it's for the openssl problems seen in Debian
<teward> and it's a tricky merge - call for testing in a week on the ML if anyone wants to test
<nacc> teward: ok, thanks for the update!
<nacc> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 12 16:26:22 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-12-16.02.moin.txt
<teward> (via PPAs first, before I even consider including in the repos)
<teward> *goes back to figuring out why said merge is failing to build*
<nacc> teward: ack (i'll adjust in the meeting logs)
<teward> nacc: no problem, it's become an issue on the radar more given other ubuntu-devel-discuss / ubuntu-server ML threads
<nacc> teward: yep, makes sense
<teward> and Debian-level threads (experimental is rolling openssl 1.1.0 now, and they want to make sure things 'build' before it's made available
<jgrimm> thanks nacc
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-13
<Suergally> Saw this post : http://www.pasteall.org/pic/105055 Would this be the OpenStack Charms Meeting, or not ?
<sarnold> hah, love that there's no timezone on the thing :/
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-14
<sil2100> o/
<robru> \o
<pitti> good afternoon, Earthlings!
<sil2100> ~o
 * slangasek waves
 * infinity coughs.
<barry> \o
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 14 15:03:15 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> barry infinity robru sil2100 tdaitx doko bdmurray slangasek mwhudson pitti chiluk xnox caribou cyphermox
<barry> \o/
<barry> ubuntu-image: landed flow branch; landed argparse branch; fixed ci; many meetings; working on `snapd weld` branch
<barry> debian bug #830611; python-webob 1.6.1-1; debian bug #830712; enum34 1.1.6-1; nose2 0.6.5-1; debian bug #828883 (dh-python; testing git repo fix); zope.interface 4.2.0-1
<barry> --done--
<ubottu> Debian bug 830611 in src:python-webob "python-webob: accesses the internet during build" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/830611
<ubottu> Debian bug 830712 in python-enum34 "python-enum34: add Breaks: python-enum" [Grave,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/830712
<ubottu> Debian bug 828883 in dh-python "zope.interface: FTBFS: E: Please add apropriate interpreter package to Build-Depends, see pybuild(1) for details" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/828883
<infinity> Very short week (1 day) due to DebConf and a swap day:
<infinity> * Looked at point release live filesystem building for HWE-X
<infinity> * Discussions (right now) about binutils libbfd regression
<infinity> (done)
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * resurrect feature to indicate merge approvers in bzr commits
<robru> * transition to new britney in git
<robru> * track down some new britney tracebacks with pitti
<robru> * continue working on porting status job, nearly finished!
<robru> (end)
<sil2100> - Another crazy day, pipe breakage, boiler breakage - recovering from damages
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - OTA-12:
<sil2100>   * Importing last-minute custom and device tarballs
<sil2100>   * Fixing up some earlier mistakes in some OTA-12 rc candidates (wrong rootfs)
<sil2100>   * Requesting some image re-tests
<sil2100>   * Publishing the new frameworks to the store
<sil2100> - Midori:
<sil2100>   * Copying silos and spinning new candidate images
<sil2100> - Touch xenial:
<sil2100>   * Preparing and deploying the cdimage change for enabling arm64 for touch
<sil2100>   * Building first images, investigating failures
<sil2100>   * Fixing missing langpacks for xenial, enabling qtmir-android fro arm64
<sil2100> - Reviewing and publishing (slightly not-perfect) repowerd
<sil2100> - Reverting repowerd from vivid as it was causing regressions in autopkgtests
<sil2100> - Preparing new frameworks for OTA-13
<sil2100> - Fixing some edge-cases for the landing-info script in landing-team-tools
<sil2100> - Writing ubuntu-touch-custom re-spin documentation
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> (technicians are finishing up the boiler replacement right now)
<sil2100> Made a hole in my wall sadly ;/
<chiluk> just thing sil2100, now you get to paint, and can choose new and fancy colors.
<sil2100> Yeah, I'm simply thrilled about this thought
<sil2100> ;)
<tdaitx> let me know when I should go, I was late and missed today's shuffle
<slangasek> tdaitx: your turn :)
<tdaitx> = Merges
<tdaitx> - halfway through isc-dhcp
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK security update
<tdaitx> - backporting the jaxp patch (requires additional backports from jdk8)
<tdaitx> - preparing OpenJDK 8 package for the security team
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx> - fighting a cold since yesterday
<tdaitx> (done)
<chiluk> cold's suck tdaitx ..
<tdaitx> slangasek, thanks
<slangasek> doko is out
<tdaitx> chiluk, it does, always
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> coming back from vacation
<bdmurray> investigation into staging cassandra / lift & shift status
<bdmurray> new staging not working due to old python-txstatsd
<bdmurray> investigation into failed queue retracing queue growing
<bdmurray> submitted test crashes to daisy staging for new gdb version
<bdmurray> reviewed retracing of crashes in staging ET (good to go)
<bdmurray> resolved software-properties test failure
<bdmurray> research into hwe-support-status
<bdmurray> irc discussion with psusi regarding bugpattern for ubiquity installer crashes
<bdmurray> wrote a bug pattern for a ubiquity installer crash
<bdmurray> SRU queue reviews for unity, drupal7, openstack, and snapcraft
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek>  * ubuntu-image design discussions
<slangasek>  * SRUs: SRUs for new secureboot policy published to trusty...xenial
<slangasek>  * spent some time trying to get -proposed under control
<slangasek>  * MP review for fixing vagrant images to their pre-16.04 glory
<slangasek>  * this week: further ubuntu-image development and image yaml prototyping
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> pitti:
<pitti> ExecMount=/bin/mount /dev/disk/by-label/cloudimg-rootfs / -t ext4 (code=exited, status=32)
<pitti> err, no, not that one
<pitti> network-yaml: add support for manual addresses, crank test coverage to 100%, fix some autopkgtest instability; getting blocked more and more on spec review and a name+config file path
<pitti> systemd-session: update work items to all packages that ship an upstart session job, discuss/proposed some infra piece to systemd upstream, prepare  PPA and git for next week's sprint
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Robustify worker against invalid test requests
<pitti>  - britney: Rebase our enormous delta on current Debian, clean up obsolete patches, send upstreamable patches to Niels, port our stuff to changed Debian concepts
<pitti>  - Further debug arm64 breakage in scalingstack (#1531768)
<pitti>  - britney: Investigate CI train traceback for Robert; turned out to be a version collision between a xenial SRU and the overlay PPA
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - merges: debhelper, procps
<pitti>  - Debug and propose a fix for networking restart/ssh deadlock (#1584393)
<pitti>  - Initial investigations on snapd failure on yakkety (#1599799); this now  needs to be looked at by someone who actally knows what this does
<pitti> (done)
<chiluk> - Presented an Ubuntu Development Primer at Texas Linux Fest this past weekend.
<chiluk> - Other than that, just maas 2.0 support requests.  Mostly usage issues.
<chiluk> - (done)
<slangasek> and xnox is off playing volleyball
<slangasek> and caribou is celebrating national nation day
<chiluk> damn I didn't know he played.
<slangasek> and cyphermox is off
<slangasek> so looks like that's everybody
<slangasek> questions?
<sil2100> What is the meaning of life?
<barry> 42
<slangasek> not sure that fits in this meeting; we can schedule a UOS session
<sil2100> Thanks
<sil2100> ;)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> So I'm looking at update-manager and this hwe support stuff, which only exists in precise, and part of it involves some gui changes to update-manager.  I was wondering if anybody remembers what they do
<infinity> Michael might remember.
<bdmurray> Okay
<slangasek> sounds like that's a wrap then
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 14 15:20:13 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-14-15.03.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<sil2100> Mc wrap, thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-10
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 10 16:29:52 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Otto KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen (otto) provided updates for trusty for mariadb-5.5 (LP: #1698689)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1698689 in mariadb-10.0 (Ubuntu Yakkety) "USN-3269-1: partially applies to MariaDB too" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1698689
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> last week was a short week for me. I focused on the ubuntu-image CVE coordination and update, lots of store reviews, various snappy PRs, help with snap-seccomp issue on 14.04 LTS, advising zyga on how to debug snap-confine apparmor profile issue, and followups for password-manager-service PR.
<jdstrand> this week I plan to:
<jdstrand> * be responsive to several in flight snappy PRs and feature discussions
<jdstrand> that's it from me. sbeattie, you're up
<jdstrand> * work on finishing the overlayfs bug filing
<jdstrand> * sprint prep as required
<jdstrand> * getting back to wayland (as have time)
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
<sbeattie> I'll pick up some updates, given that Marc is out this week
<sbeattie> I need to poke at a few apparmor things.
<sbeattie> and there's a couple of things I need to look at on the kernel cve triage side of things.
<sbeattie> that's it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I'm continuing my work on fscrypt evaluation in regards to its usage as a pam module
<tyhicks> s/as a pam module/in a pam module/
<tyhicks> I have sprint prep
<tyhicks> will spend some time thinking through CVE tracking in snaps
<tyhicks> may get some time to work on seccomp kernel patches
<tyhicks> probably won't be able to get to ecryptfs patch review
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jj is out today
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<tyhicks> I don't see him around yet
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: go ahead
<chrisccoulson> I've got a chromium update to do this week
<chrisccoulson> I also need to do a rust transition for future firefox updates
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I'll continue to work through the old firefox security bugs to backport some fixes to our current spidermonkey package
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<ratliff> I'm on community this week
<ratliff> I have already started working on the debdiffs for vlc from tsimonq2
<ratliff> I have some sprint prep, a sizing effort, and a few small internal tasks
<ratliff> Then I will look into updates.
<ratliff> leosilva: you are up
<leosilva> * worked in some updates for precise: libgcrypt,expat, libtiff, bind9
<leosilva> * this week I'm planning to continue to search and update for precise and finish jbig2 update and openldap
<leosilva> * I'm also want to shadow sarnold in bug triate this
<leosilva> that's it from me.
<leosilva> tyhicks: it's back to you
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pytables.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/fwknop.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/linux-mako.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tweepy.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/qbittorrent.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, sbeattie, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff, leosilva: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 10 16:42:00 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-07-10-16.29.moin.txt
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<leosilva> thanks tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-11
<cpaelzer> o/
<ahasenack> o/
<slashd> o/
 * cpaelzer burns a few things to the typo god as this seems to be misstyping day
 * smb queues a o/ for 17:59:59
<blackboxsw> CRON[6227]: o/
<cpaelzer> crom the barbarian
<cpaelzer> ok lets get started
<cpaelzer> I hope a few more show up or are lazy with their handwaving
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 11 16:01:23 2017 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<nacc> o/
<cpaelzer> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<cpaelzer> I won't again quote all we had and summarize
<cpaelzer> nacc: ipv6 ?
<cpaelzer> rharper: v2 yaml ?
<nacc> cpaelzer: carry
 * slashd be back in 2 minutes
<cpaelzer> rbasak: mysql maintainership?
<rbasak> carry forward, sorry
<dpb1> o/
<cpaelzer> ok rharpermight be away carrying that as well
<cpaelzer> take an example on powersj he cleared his action the first week
<cpaelzer> speaking of that, one more
<cpaelzer> dpb look into why this is stalled https://github.com/lxc/pylxd/issues/232
<cpaelzer> how about that?
<dpb1> hm
<dpb1> I did
<dpb1> and they released a new release now
<dpb1> that was the reason
<dpb1> I'll poke again
<cpaelzer> ok any follow up by anyone needed?
<dpb1> oh no
<dpb1> it's closed now
<dpb1> action DONE
<cpaelzer> thank
<teward> o/ (i'm late)
<cpaelzer> hi teward
<cpaelzer> clearing one carrying 5 then
<cpaelzer> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<cpaelzer> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<cpaelzer> #action rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<cpaelzer> #action rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<cpaelzer> #action rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<cpaelzer> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<cpaelzer> #subtopic Current Work
<cpaelzer> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> Any current work other than bugs (which will follow) worth to discuss in a group?
<teward> just for awareness:
<cpaelzer> any bigger changes coming that should be made known
<cpaelzer> ok teward go
<teward> nginx 1.12.1 released todah - it's a headache because i already started 1.12 - delays my tasks another week
<teward> (builds, etc.)
<teward> 1.12.0 merge*
<cpaelzer> teward: do you plan to go 1.12.0 first and then 1.12.1 then?
<cpaelzer> or will go move to .1 before uploading the merge?
<teward> cpaelzer: we're already 1.12.0 i have to finish merging in Debian's packaging changes
<teward> probably going to finish testing that then jump to 1.12.1 direct.
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> thanks
<teward> yep.
<teward> *returns to the shadows*
<cpaelzer> #subtopic Release Bugs
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> now more bug centric - anything high profile to share?
<ahasenack> I don't
<cpaelzer> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<slashd> Business as usual for us this week so far --> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25068655/
<slashd> Note that we are still working on the MIR of pcp + libpapi (dependency of pcp) : Looking at implementing autopkgtest, ...
<slashd> #info SRU pending for : percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5 percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6, cups, sssd, open-iscsi, rsyslog, ksh, neutron
<cpaelzer> in addition for those who wonder on yakkety, stricly speaking that has a remaining lifecycle of two days left https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<cpaelzer> thanks slashd, anybody else SRUs to share?
<slashd> cpaelzer, everything is under control on our hand with regard to SRU
<cpaelzer> If not *special* you don't need to list all as the weekly summary will include them automatically
<cpaelzer> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2017-July/007559.html
<slashd> cpaelzer, ack
<cpaelzer> and for example the SRUs I had are non-special - e.g. fiixing libvirt in zesty for spice
<cpaelzer> there are more by more people
<slashd> cpaelzer, ok I'll make sure I only share the special one for now one, thanks
<cpaelzer> it is mostly on listing so that people are aware that their work collide
<cpaelzer> since your Teams work somewhat separate we might collide on that
<cpaelzer> ok I don't here on more SRUs queued up and heard nobody complain on the ones listed by slashd to cause any trouble
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<cpaelzer> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<cpaelzer> he is not here
<cpaelzer> dpb1: is he off?
<dpb1> hm
<dpb1> powersj?
<cpaelzer> he is coming
<dpb1> he's here
<dpb1> k
<powersj> o/
<cpaelzer> you are right on powersj
<powersj> sorry for being late
<cpaelzer> qa status please
<dpb1> he's just being lazy
<dpb1> :)
<slashd> cpaelzer, that was mainly why I list everything, sometime it may raise a flag on your side
<cpaelzer> slashd: perfect slashd - I have a proposal to that in the open discussion
<cpaelzer> but now lets report powersj first on QA
<powersj> Last week I worked on resolving some test failures with cloud-init and otherwise spent time on KPI related activities.
<powersj> This week I am working on kvm-backed cloud-init integration testing.
<powersj> I do have to bring up that the artful ISO is now over 700mb
<powersj> I know this was being looked at as the seeds changed, but didn't get resolved, so I need to get status
<cpaelzer> I didn't see a related seeds change when working on ubuntu-virt seeds changes
<cpaelzer> you wil llet us know next wek
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Latest info I heard is that we are close to move to 4.11 in artful. There are very few dkms issues left (2 to fix and one to potentially remove (blktap-dkms)). To my knowledge blktap was only ever used by XCP/XAPI/open-xenserver and that is gone.
<smb> Apart from that (not kernel related at all), doing my special kind of debootstrap installs which are adding "server^ ubuntu-server" later, I got netplan/systemd-networkd without libnss-resolve installed. Which is not too well working. Not sure but maybe libnss-resolve needs adding to either the server task or meta-package.
<cpaelzer> that is interesting smb
<cpaelzer> dpb1: should we forward that to cyphermox_ ?
<cpaelzer> dpb1: or is ryan pre-handling those netplan related things?
<cpaelzer> rharper I should say
<dpb1> interesting
<cpaelzer> smb: is cyphermox_ involved in your netplan findings already
<smb> cpaelzer, not with libnss one but with my ipv6 ra issues
<cpaelzer> ok good, because that ipv6 ra was the one I knew about
<dpb1> smb: have a bug for that?
<cpaelzer> the libnss you mean dpb1?
<dpb1> yes
<smb> not yet for that
<cpaelzer> smb: please do so once you happen to open one up
<smb> cpaelzer, ck
<cpaelzer> dpb1: do you want to be sucscirbed to reroute as applicable?
<cpaelzer> or even "subscribed"
<dpb1> yes please
<smb> ok
<cpaelzer> great, and 4.11 sounds good
<cpaelzer> smb: will 4.11 stay the aa kernel then?
<cpaelzer> or 4.12
<cpaelzer> or not commited to either?
<smb> at least 4.12
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<cpaelzer> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<ahasenack> I think I added a link to a lxd conference
<cpaelzer> Openstack CFPs ahead - anybody heading there?
<cpaelzer> there are more ahasenack
<cpaelzer> I wanted the generic - are there any beofre listing those
<ahasenack> ok
<cpaelzer> ok, on the agenda as ahasenack mentioned are also
<cpaelzer> #link http://www.open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit
<cpaelzer> #link https://discuss.linuxcontainers.org/t/containers-micro-conference-at-linux-plumbers-2017/262
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: do you have background on those?
<ahasenack> just that there is still time, and the lxd one was sent by stgraber to a list and I copied it to the agenda
<ahasenack> I wasn't sure if they were listed in the lwn.net calendar
<cpaelzer> they are not
<ahasenack> the zfs one is short, just one day
<cpaelzer> intending to go anybody?
<cpaelzer> ok not go from here, continuing
<cpaelzer> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<cpaelzer> none that I know of
<dpb1> nothing to announce yet
<cpaelzer> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<cpaelzer> I have two tihngs here, anybody els?
<ahasenack> I don't
<cpaelzer> First of all libvirt/qemu daily builds are out now
<cpaelzer> we will have to see how easy (or not) they are to maintain
<cpaelzer> but for now you got very easy verification/test packages from upstream master
<cpaelzer> #info Daily builds on libvirt and qemu master available
<cpaelzer> #link https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/+archive/ubuntu/virt-daily-upstream
<cpaelzer> The other topic I have is for slashd and powersj (and everybdoy actually)
<cpaelzer> on the mentioning of SRUs
<cpaelzer> the intention for that is to not step on each others toes
<cpaelzer> powersj: could the report David is sending get a list like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1
<cpaelzer> filtered by "uploaded this week" and only server subset?
<cpaelzer> That would make sure people know what is about to come - a bit like slashd reports us what STS is working on.
<powersj> cpaelzer: so essentially report what is in proposed?
<slashd> cpaelzer, and can we be added to this email ?
<cpaelzer> powersj: almost - what is in proposed is kind of "too late"
<dpb1> slashd: ubuntu-server@lists.c.c
<cpaelzer> I'd like to see what is in unapproved even
<slashd> dbp1, thanks
<cpaelzer> that is about 2-10 days earlier
<dpb1> slashd: errr
<dpb1> ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
<cpaelzer> so an earlier heads up for those plannign a new one
<cpaelzer> powersj: just take a note, if it is doable that might be a good info
<cpaelzer> if not it is not worth to invest too much
<cpaelzer> surely everybody could check the link, and I know me and others do
<powersj> cpaelzer: I like the idea, I'll add a card and circle back
<cpaelzer> but you know pushing the info out might be useful
<cpaelzer> ok great powersj
<cpaelzer> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: forgot to remove himself after last week, I'll be so kind to do that
<cpaelzer> I also remove myself which makes rharper next weeks chair
<ahasenack> thank you
<dpb1> rharper is away next week
<dpb1> shuffle him back one week please
<dpb1> oh
<dpb1> n/m
<dpb1> he's away this week!
<cpaelzer> thats whyt I thought
<dpb1> carry on
<cpaelzer> ok, we elect him then
 * dpb1 disappears back into shadows
<cpaelzer> thanks everybody
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 11 16:31:02 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-07-11-16.01.moin.txt
<ahasenack> thx cpaelzer
<slashd> thanks cpaelzer
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-13
<sil2100> o/
<Tribaal> \o/
 * slangasek waves
<cyphermox> oi!
 * cyphermox waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 13 15:02:59 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray slangasek infinity sil2100 cyphermox tdaitx xnox mwhudson rbalint rcj philroche Odd_Bloke Tribaal fginther)
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke doko fginther sil2100 xnox rcj slangasek cyphermox Tribaal tdaitx mwhudson philroche infinity rbalint bdmurray
<chiluk> o/
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke: hello
<Odd_Bloke> Sigh, of course I'd be first when I'm running late.
<rbalint> o/
<Odd_Bloke> * Preparing for the product sprint next week
<Odd_Bloke> * Cherry-picked all the git commits
<Odd_Bloke> done
<Odd_Bloke> doko:
<Odd_Bloke> (Or maybe not because he's on vacation.)
<sil2100> I think doko is away?
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> fginther:
<fginther> * Image testing for walinuxagent 2.2.14
<fginther> * Automated image publication workflow improvements
<fginther>   + Utility for processing manifest differences
<fginther>   + Jobs for checking and acting upon manifest differences
<fginther> * Enabled publishing of blobs to Azure Germany
<fginther> done
<sil2100> - A lot of regular SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Minor fixes to the release script
<sil2100>   * HIGHLIGHT: Releasing ubuntu-image 1.1 - deb and snap
<sil2100>   * Investigating and fixing issues with some multiarch dependent libraries
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100>   * Re-releasing fixed zesty-based 1.1 snap (beta channel)
<sil2100> - Releasing the previous gce-compute-image-packages to -updates
<sil2100> - Reviewing and sponsoring Balint's trusty gce-compute-image-packages fix
<sil2100> - Change the kernel-sru-review cache branch per Steve's reviews
<sil2100> - Checking skiboot artful -> xenial delta, SRUing latest upstream release to xenial
<sil2100> - Reading up on the point release process, prepping minor stuff
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> systemd for xenial reviewed and accepted to proposed THANK YOU; all test cases passes \o/ so it can safely age for 16.04.3
<xnox> s390-tool for xenial reviewed and accepted to proposed THANK YOU; yet to validate
 * xnox is confused about "verification-needed verification-needed-$suite" added on all the sru bugs. I thought "verification-needed" is redundant then.
<xnox> ocaml transition in progress, with demotions only 23 odd packages left
<xnox> subiquity - discussing how to proceed with vlan views with michael, will start prototyping next
<xnox> WSL got published; and fixed up; and blogged; and fixed up.
<xnox> ..
<bdmurray> rcj: your turn
<rcj> bdmurray: thx
<sil2100> xnox: it is a bit redundant, yes, but we decided to leave it in case people want to easily look for bugs that need verification
<rcj> It was a quiet week, I've been down in the cloud-image publication plumbing
<xnox> sil2100, ok.
<rcj> quiet in terms of interesting bits.  We have daily publication of all releases swapped over to the new code.
<rcj> done
<rcj> slangasek:
<slangasek>  * SRU reviews
<slangasek>  * Landed fix for broken files on ddebs.u.c, then spent a couple days regenerating cache after accidental breakage (LP: #1702550)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1702550 in ddeb-retriever "Several files on ddebs.ubuntu.com have bogus content" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1702550
<slangasek>  * Landed sil2100's branches for ubuntu-archive-tools
<slangasek>  * fixes to pc gadget snaps to build from source in archive
<slangasek>  * security release for ubuntu-image
<slangasek>  * publish new fixed candidate,stable channel core images
<slangasek>  * first cut of policy for "Ubuntu main" snaps
<slangasek>  * preparing for next week product sprint
<slangasek>  * off tomorrow, swapping for sprint travel
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> - back from vacation, catching up
<cyphermox> MIRs:
<cyphermox>  - sbuild, python-scrypt, python-bcrypt, open-isns, numactl, nghttp2
<cyphermox>  - pyparted needs help (tests not being run)
<cyphermox> netplan:
<cyphermox>  - [HIGHLIGHT] preparing release 0.25:
<cyphermox>    - fixing autopkgtests
<cyphermox>    - better handle unconfigured devices re: how to deal with IPv6 RAs
<cyphermox>    - improve MTU setting for the NetworkManager handler
<cyphermox> artful:
<cyphermox>  - reviewing ubiquity merge proposals
<cyphermox>  - reupload shim-signed SRUs for non-interactive, apport hook fixes, state tracking
<cyphermox> paperwork:
<cyphermox>  - filling backlog cards, discussing pasta processes
<cyphermox> (done)
<cyphermox> sil2100: that pyparted thing, we should discuss after the meeting, not sure if you had seen the bug I filed
<slangasek> sil2100: (and that I assigned to you :)
<slangasek> Tribaal:
<sil2100> Oh
 * sil2100 needs to fix his bugmail
<cyphermox> bug LP: #1695058
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1695058 in pyparted (Ubuntu) "should run tests as part of the package build" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1695058
<Tribaal> * Refactoring, adding tests in our build tools
<Tribaal> * Added/fixed the GCE publication using mutiqueue SCSI
<Tribaal> * Some work on automatic promotion
<sil2100> cyphermox: thanks! I can take that, sure
<Tribaal> (not very interesting but *meh*)
<Tribaal> (done)
<tdaitx> > OpenJDK security update
<tdaitx> > Squad, Trello and whatnot
<tdaitx> > Other: fixed rtl8812 wifi by replacing network-manager with wicd (https://github.com/astsam/rtl8812au/issues/36)
<tdaitx> (done)
<cyphermox> hum wat?
<tdaitx> yeah, weird
<cyphermox> indeed, I think I have a rtl8812au and it worked fine..
<tdaitx> I can help debug that
<cyphermox> can you file a bug on LP?
<philroche> * Automated promotion work
<tdaitx> sure
<philroche>   + Cleanup of dailies
<cyphermox> tdaitx: ta
<philroche> * ENA attribute enabled for Trusty images on AWS
<slangasek> tdaitx: any +1 maintenance right now?
<philroche> * gce-compute-image-packages package SRU verification
<philroche> (done)
<cyphermox> philroche: what is ENA attribute?
<bdmurray> is infinity about?
<slangasek> no infinity?
<slangasek> rbalint:
<tdaitx> slangasek, planned for tomorrow
<chiluk> tdaitx the rtl8812au seems like something that should get really fixed and not just worked around.
<slangasek> tdaitx: on the day I'm not around to sponsor, too bad :)
<rbalint> * short week, was on long vacation
<rbalint> * Debian uploads: pam-ssh-agent-auth
<rbalint> * multiple unattended-updates changes including helping out upstream sorting out PR-s, Ubuntu delta, Debian patches, LP: #1690980
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1690980 in OEM Priority Project "unattended-upgrades does not block shutdown of system, as it is designed to" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690980
<philroche> cyphermox: It means that you can used enhanced networking on AWS.
<cyphermox> slangasek: I can sponsor uploads for tdaitx
<cyphermox> philroche: cool
<philroche> Speeds up to 20Gb/s
<rbalint> * google-compute-engine-oslogin SRU LP: #1703647
<tdaitx> slangasek, cyphermox and there's sil2100 as well
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1703647 in gce-compute-image-packages (Ubuntu Trusty) "google-compute-engine-oslogin 20170622-0ubuntu1~14.04.0 installation fails on Trusty" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1703647
<rbalint> (no highlights for now)
<rbalint> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> tdaitx: Are you going to SRU the openjdk package hook?
<bdmurray> utilized cassandra database query to verify libgweather SRU was good
<bdmurray> tested release upgrades from EoL releases
<bdmurray> worked with balint on unattended-upgrades bug LP: #1690980
<bdmurray> tested balint's patch for unattended-upgrades bug LP: #1690980
<bdmurray> discussion re pulseaudio regressions
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1690980 in OEM Priority Project "unattended-upgrades does not block shutdown of system, as it is designed to" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690980
<slangasek> tdaitx: yeah, but if I don't get to sponsor I don't have content for an endorsement!
<tdaitx> bdmurray, yes
<bdmurray> sorted out issue with upstream apport's crash digger and bad attachments
<bdmurray> uploaded new version of lptools to AA to handle same bad attachments issue
<sil2100> Me too!
<bdmurray> merged powersj MoM MP to add team stats for ubuntu-server
<bdmurray> piggy-backed on the above and added foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> merged bug pattern MP for a samba bug report
<sil2100> I need to sponsor some stuff for you!
<bdmurray> tdaitx: then we'd need whoopsie SRU'ed too to allow the field through
<bdmurray> replied to team process / setup emails
<bdmurray> irc discussion with moon127 regarding PS4 swift storage (dump it!)
<bdmurray> HIGHLIGHT: blogged about using Error Tracker for SRUs (http://www.murraytwins.com/blog/?p=144)
<bdmurray> answered questions in #ubuntu-bugs regarding bug expiry
<bdmurray> updated meta-release-development and m-r-lts-development to only have supported upgrade paths
<gaughen> cool!
<bdmurray> removed --sandbox option from update-manager to match u-r-u (LP: #1605259)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1605259 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade --sandbox fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1605259
<bdmurray> u-r-u & u-m clarify the definition of the "-d" switch (LP: #1700829)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700829 in update-manager (Ubuntu Artful) "-d switch doesn't accurately describe itself" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700829
<bdmurray> special SRU review of livecd-rootfs for X for infinity
<bdmurray> â done
<tdaitx> bdmurray, yeah, it's on my todo list, what do I need to do there exactly?
<gaughen> bdmurray, I just looked at your blog on Tuesday!
<bdmurray> tdaitx: copy what I did in artful ;-)
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<tdaitx> chiluk, I need to take a deeper look into that, since the rtl works on the command line or wicd, but not on nm
<chiluk> yeah tdaitx.. a LOT of people are hitting nm issues lately
<tdaitx> bdmurray, k, tks
<chiluk> every laptop I own right now has weirdness.
<chiluk> I think it may even be timing related.
<chiluk> as in nm-applet coming up before network-manager or the driver are ready
<bdmurray> tdaitx: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/323195476/whoopsie_0.2.55_0.2.56.diff.gz
<chiluk> I'll add some status as well since at least xnox used to care about intel-microcode
<chiluk> lp#1700373 - intel-microcode - backported 20170511 to x, y, then discovered intel released 20170707 over the weekend.  Then backported 20170707 for SRU in x,y,z. Tested said backport, created public PPA for additional testing.  SRU currently waiting in Upload queue for x, y, z.
<chiluk> lp1673481 - Completed verification of y and z.
<tdaitx> bdmurray, in case I get the openjdk update before whoopsie, the only problem is that we won't get that field uploaded right?
<bdmurray> tdaitx: right that field won't make it into errors but the rest of the report will and the whole thing would land in LP
<xnox> ## Highlight: systemd 234 released upstream with contributions from Canonical for persistent interface naming of the ACPI platform devices, relevant on ARM64
<sil2100> chiluk: I didn't find time to review the intel-microcode SRU yet
<sil2100> Oh
<sil2100> Ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bug queue
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug queue
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: we did try to review this last week while you were out, and nothing moved
<slangasek> I don't remember why this one critical is lingering in incoming
<bdmurray> slangasek: because a community member made it critical w/o much justification
<tdaitx> chiluk, when you quit you missed sil2100's comment: <sil2100> chiluk: I didn't find time to review the intel-microcode SRU yet
<sil2100> Ah, chiluk is back!
<sil2100> tdaitx: thanks ;)
<slangasek> bdmurray: ah, cough
<chiluk> sil2100: ... not back... but now part of the community
<sil2100> chiluk: if other SRU members won't find cycles for the review I might pick it up tomorrow
<chiluk> yeah sil2100.. I'm ok with us being a little slow on it.
<chiluk> although from all my testing the microcode update seems to be fairly specific to only kabylake and skylake-e/x
<bdmurray> I don't think there are many new things in rls-aa-incoming
<chiluk> sil2100... Indeed has given me 40% time to make sure that Ubuntu continues to work as their development environment... and do some platform enablement.
<slangasek> ok, 1646739 dispatched (marked as a duplicate)
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else on there worth looking at?
<bdmurray> slangasek: not today
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> Anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 13 15:38:11 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-07-13-15.02.moin.txt
<rbalint> i'm still looking for endorsments for Core Membership: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BalintReczey/CoreDeveloperApplicatio
<rbalint> i was almost late :-)
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<sil2100> Oh, I can endorce rbalint o/
<rbalint> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BalintReczey/CoreDeveloperApplication
<rbalint> corrected the link, thanks in advance!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-07-12
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<tdaitx> \o
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 12 15:03:40 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)
<slangasek> mwhudson rbalint sil2100 rcj cyphermox Odd_Bloke bdmurray philroche doko xnox juliank fginther slangasek infinity tdaitx
<slangasek> rbalint: hi
<rbalint> * wrote blog post http://balintreczey.hu/blog/run-ubuntu-on-windows-even-multiple-releases-in-parallel/
<rbalint> * prepared many unattended-upgrades fixed and SRUd
<rbalint> * SRUd gce-compute-image-packages
<rbalint> * lot of unattended-upgrades testing
<rbalint> (done)
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - New kernel SRU re-spin cycle for 4.15
<sil2100> - Translation updates:
<sil2100>   * Copied langpacks to xenial-proposed for .5
<sil2100>   * Testing reported regressions, investigated the issue, l-o-m generated erroneous PPA packages for some reason
<sil2100>     (history shows it's not the first time)
<sil2100>   * Requested a re-export, re-generated and re-uploaded packages, re-sent call-for-testing
<sil2100>   * Requested a full translation export for bionic (decision has been made to update -base's for 18.04.1)
<sil2100> - Iterated on the security-britney instance
<sil2100>   * Things work after some hacks, now just waiting for IS for getting it public
<sil2100> - Fixing tests in the ubuntu-image cross-compilation PR to correctly mock qemu-user-static in find_executable
<sil2100> - grub dual EFI/BIOS:
<sil2100>   * Finalized verification of the packages, grub2-signed and shim-signed released
<sil2100>   * Got poked by Steve about a serious regression introduced in installs with old isos
<sil2100>   * Re-added missing dependency change, fast-tracked it to bionic-updates with Steve
<sil2100> - Some poking around about 16.04.5 stuff
<sil2100> - core18 minor PR reviews
<sil2100> (done)
<rcj> rcj:
<gaughen> o/
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * working on bionic daily build failures
<rcj> * proposed disabling unused checksum calculation in livecd-rootfs
<rcj> * cloud-image partner work
<rcj> (done)
<cyphermox> - coaching Eickmeyer (ubuntu-studio) for uploads (calf)
<cyphermox> - [HIGHLIGHT] netplan.io release 0.39
<cyphermox> - debugging weird PE32 header issues between shim/grub/edk2
<cyphermox> y- review/sponsor fix for zfs in mkinitramfs (bug LP: #1661629)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1661629 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "upgrade of kernel fails with mkinitramfs: failed to determine device for /" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1661629
<cyphermox> - convert triggers: dovecot, fusiondirectory
<cyphermox> - sru verfiication
<cyphermox> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> * MINIMAL IMAGE LAUNCH *airhorns*
<Odd_Bloke> * Work for existing partners
<Odd_Bloke> * Engagement with new partners around their images
<Odd_Bloke> * Work to improve our lxd testing, which has a couple of warts
<Odd_Bloke> * Preparation for sprint next week
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> encountered and reported Traceback when upgrading to Cosmic (LP: #1780501)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1780501 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Traceback calling Vte.Terminal.feed_child()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780501
<bdmurray> investigation in vte2.91 regression of Vte.Terminal.feed_child() LP: #1780501
<bdmurray> SRU verification for Artful and Bionic of LP: #1768379
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1768379 in python3-defaults (Ubuntu) "python3-minimal should predepend on versioned version of python3-minimal" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768379
<bdmurray> investigation into autopkgtest failures "triggered" by python3-defaults SRU
<bdmurray> learned about retry-autopkgtest-regressions and used it for python3-defaults issues
<bdmurray> tested mojo spec version of Errors Launchpad integration (not good)
<bdmurray> updated daisy code to handle lp_use_staging being a string, commented on RT to get it updated
<bdmurray> reported bug re deb to snap transition (LP: #1780841)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1780841 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubuntu-release-upgrader should transition debs to snaps" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780841
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader SRU for 18.04 fixing inhibitIdle and adding deb2snap transition
<bdmurray> discussion regarding handling of noawait transitions
<bdmurray> uploaded yorick, xpdf, and a â´ load more noawait SRUs for 16.04 (LP: #1780996)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1780996 in sphinx (Ubuntu Xenial) "Convert triggers to noawait" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780996
<bdmurray> review of smoser software-properties MP
<bdmurray> SRU verification, upgrades from X and A, of LP: #1775660
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1775660 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubuntu-release-upgrader should purge obsolete packages, not just remove them" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1775660
<bdmurray> worked on some of SRU verification of LP: #1780841 (ð·4 found)
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> philroche is off
<bdmurray> doko: ?
<slangasek> doko is off
<doko> on vacation
<slangasek> xnox is off
<doko> see you next week ....
<slangasek> juliank:
<juliank> * debugged mariadb hanging on arm64; blocking autopkgtests for itself and rdeps
<juliank> * apt, python-apt point releases
<juliank> * further work on grub postinst signature check
<juliank> * a ton of trigger fixes
<juliank> * a bit of launchpad api learning and adding missing tasks to the trigger bug (LP forgot to add them)...
<juliank> (done)
<slangasek> fginther:
<fginther> * Out for 2 half days
<fginther> * Working on cloud-init changes to disable ssh for users other then root
<fginther>   * Added unit tests to cover the pre-existing code
<fginther>   * Building images to test in real clouds
<fginther> * Support release of minimal images with testing and publication fixes
<fginther> * Manual testing of an updated partner image
<fginther> â done
<slangasek>  * prep for next week's midcycle sprint
<slangasek>  * worked on getting the POWER7 machines getting decommissioned
<slangasek>  * interviewing candidates for a product manager role
<slangasek>  * SRU, NEW reviews
<slangasek>  * code reviews
<slangasek>  * misc proposed-migration handling; there are still a lot of packages waiting in -proposed, but no more major transitions currently in progress and the backlog is way down, time for someone to start another transition
<slangasek>  * upcoming
<slangasek>   * off tomorrow (travel swap), in Montreal next week
<slangasek> (done)
<tdaitx> hmm, no infinity...
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> Short week: sick since the weekend, mostly out on Monday, slow going Tue & Wed
<tdaitx> * lshw update + sru (LP: #1752523)
<tdaitx> * working on openjdk-8 & openjdk-10 security updates
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> - taking evening language classes for the next 2 weeks (might affect my availability for the late team meetings)
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1752523 in The Ubuntu-power-systems project "Ubuntu 18.04 [ P9 WSP DD2.2 ]: lshw version is displayed as "unknown" and -json option is not available in help message." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1752523
<cyphermox> tdaitx: yay lshw uploads!
<slangasek> tdaitx: studying haskell? croatian?
<tdaitx> and for some reason lshw does make my laptop freeze up
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> oh my
<sil2100> 'I speak fluently Python'
<tdaitx> slangasek: hah, no, just german
<slangasek> ok, any other questions on status?
<sil2100> Python seems like a bad language for speaking, especially with all the whitespaces mattering that much
<cyphermox> slangasek: product maanger role for Foundations or in general?
<slangasek> cyphermox: in "general"
<cyphermox> ack
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: ?
<bdmurray> bug 1258597 popped up on my radar again
<ubottu> bug 1258597 in grub2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "[Patch] Setting GRUB_TIMEOUT to a non-zero value when GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT is set is no longer supported." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1258597
<bdmurray> It seems a lot of people are bothered by it and it seems easy to fix
<cyphermox> zug zug
<cyphermox> (I'll upload the fix right away)
<slangasek> what is the fix? to edit existing config files?
<bdmurray> I'm sure commentor #45 will appreciate it
<cyphermox> well, for one thing to not build from a default that has an invalid option
<cyphermox> as for editing the existing config files, that's much much harder.
<slangasek> ah ok
<slangasek> just checking the scope
<bdmurray> Could we fix it for 18.04.1?
<cyphermox> I'm thinking fixing the default will already help
<slangasek> yeah, sounds good. cyphermox you're saying you're taking it out of cycle?  if you're SRUing it we should still probably track it?
<cyphermox> slangasek: I'll card and all of that
<cyphermox> bdmurray: should be feasible, no other SRU in flight from the look of it
<slangasek> I'll go ahead and card it
<bdmurray> Okay, moving on. Is there a spot for netboot bugs e.g. 1777474
<bdmurray> bug 1777474
<ubottu> bug 1777474 in Ubuntu "Netinstall ISO offers usage of HTTPS mirrors but lacks ca-certificates" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1777474
<slangasek> "netinstall ISO" != "netboot"
<cyphermox> what's netinstall iso?
<slangasek> are they reporting it against netinstall or netboot?
<cyphermox> against mini.iso
<slangasek> yeah, I don't think that image is anything we should invest in
<cyphermox> don't we have some people who do use it?
<slangasek> if they were actually netbooting, that's a different matter
<cyphermox> should be simple enough to include ca-certificates on the mini.iso
<cyphermox> "simple enough" == making sure there's a udeb, and shipping the files it needs
<slangasek> cyphermox: clearly we do, but if they want a supported experience they should use the ISOs that we advertise
<cyphermox> slangasek: ok.
<bdmurray> where should the bug go though?
<slangasek> debian-installer
<bdmurray> okay
<bdmurray> Since we have a couple of SRU team members here could we talk about bug 1780501 and how to proceed.
<ubottu> bug 1780501 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Traceback calling Vte.Terminal.feed_child()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780501
<slangasek> bdmurray: revert it all?
<bdmurray> I think in Ubuntu 18.04 at least it should be reverted.
<slangasek> so, +1
<bdmurray> I think the first paragraph of comment #8 is an assumption.
<bdmurray> See bug 1779015 where a project had to change because the SRU
<ubottu> bug 1779015 in Cubic trunk "Cubic crashes with error 'Vte.Terminal.feed_child() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)'." [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1779015
<slangasek> developers are responsible for handling regressions introduced in SRUs
<bdmurray> And the fix outlined in comment #4 shows how another package had to do version checking to cope with it too.
<bdmurray> So it sounds like we are in agreement about fixing this for 18.04.
<bdmurray> Bug 1778140 sounds bad but seems like it may be a corner case.
<ubottu> bug 1778140 in e2fsprogs (Ubuntu) "resize2fs hoses a filesystem on lvm after resizing" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778140
<bdmurray> Any other opinions on that bug?
<slangasek> bdmurray: I see Ted is replying to that bug; I think we should let upstream work this at the moment
<slangasek> (we're not going to beat Ted T'so to resolving an e2fsprogs bug)
<slangasek> s/'s/s'/
<bdmurray> should we flag to keep an eye for rls-cc?
<slangasek> bdmurray: unsure, you decide :)
<bdmurray> I'll subscribe to it so we have an eye on it.
<bdmurray> That's it from me.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<cyphermox> yes
<bdmurray> I'm out half of today and all of tomorrow
<cyphermox> sil2100 and I would play Mahjong at the next sprint, we'd need two more players
<cyphermox> asking in advance since it would be good to know rules beforehand
<bdmurray> Is the one where the rules change every year?
<cyphermox> the rules don't change every year in riichi mahjong (the japanese one, not the american one)
<cyphermox> (that's all AOB for me)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 12 15:52:30 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-07-12-15.03.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
* cockmaster changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: must be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
<wxl> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* bryan_oestergaar changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hey, I think you guys might enjoy my new blog post https://bryanostergaard.com/blog/2018/07/09/donald-trump-and-the-darkies/
* wxl changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: be nice
* tsimonq2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
* tsimonq2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<tsimonq2> XD
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-09
<jdstrand> mborzecki: yes. some are disabling ebpf entirely. everyone else says only root can use it (if not running under seccomp already iirc)
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-11
 * vorlon waves
<sil2100> o/
<waveform> o/
<vorlon> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 11 15:02:05 2019 UTC.  The chair is vorlon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<vorlon> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<vorlon> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<vorlon> bdmurray juliank xnox rbalint tdaitx infinity doko sil2100 waveform cyphermox vorlon mwhudson
<bdmurray> fixed a Traceback in retracing retry code, submitted RT re production update of daisy
<bdmurray> investigated amd64 queue growth, updated daisy to save core files in another case
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding cassandra write timeouts
<bdmurray> converted more of oops-repository from using pycassa to python-cassandra
<bdmurray> sponsored gdb 18.04 SRU for manoj
<bdmurray> uploaded better fix for motd-news.timer, wrote test case too (LP: #1829968)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1829968 in base-files (Ubuntu Bionic) "motd [on at least some instances] does not auto-update daily" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829968
<bdmurray> uploaded findutils with a change so that command-not-found will not suggest locate (package)
<bdmurray> documented / carded additional mlocate work
<bdmurray> tested and worked with Laney on his changes to whoopsie
<bdmurray> created a different PPA with Error Tracker packages for staging
<bdmurray> done
<juliank> Not really here, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JulianAndresKlode/Status/1907
 * juliank is running around finding groceries for dinner :(
<vorlon> xnox is out
<vorlon> rbalint:
<rbalint> * released unattended-upgrades 1.13 via Debian with a few more fixes
<rbalint> * released shadow 1:4.7-1 via to Debian
<rbalint> * sponsored & SRU-d LP: #1835809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1835809 in systemd (Ubuntu) "AMD Ryzen 3000 series fails to boot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1835809
<rbalint> * setting up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WSL and other WSL related tasks
<rbalint> (done)
<tdaitx> * jck 11
<tdaitx>   - testing different jti templates (ie. jck settings)
<tdaitx>   - setting up for manual tests
<tdaitx> (done)
<sil2100> Guess no doko and no infinity
<sil2100> So it's me
<sil2100> - Some stomach problems this week
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - New core18 release phasing
<sil2100> - Kernel SRUs
<sil2100> - Rust 1.35.0 update:
<sil2100>   * Wasting some time working on an out-of-date version
<sil2100>   * Pulling new upstream, refreshing patches, building tarballs
<sil2100>   * Preparing new cargo, updating the patches, lots of hacking of orig-vendor
<sil2100>   * Asked Olivier for help testing - firefox successfully built and ADT tests passing
<sil2100>   * Uploaded to eoan
<sil2100>   * Prepared backports, sent to a Bileto PPA, ready for copy to archive and/or rust PPA
<sil2100> - ubuntu-core gadget updates:
<sil2100>   * A few PRs, working through snap build failures
<sil2100>   * Promoting snaps to beta
<sil2100> - Final tweaks to the new automated infra for core18 snap promotion - all working now
<sil2100> - Investigating issues with SRU ADT failure comments sent when there are no failures
<sil2100> - Friday: working half-day only
<sil2100> (done)
<vorlon> waveform:
<waveform> * Chased licensing on libraspberrypi0 for Pi spec (related to bug #1819444); seems to be some confusion upstream as to where the source for the package is
<waveform> * Responded to review on ubuntu-image instructions for rpi
<waveform> * Figured out A/B booting mechanism on core, related to combining the core & classic bootscripts. Unfortunately, it's going to require changes (snapd?) due to the way it's currently operating
<waveform> * Figured out steps for switching bluetooth and serial console on the pi without locking the VPU's clock (which we currently do; however, fix requires up to date u-boot, currently eoan only)
<waveform> * Working my way down into the depths of u-boot for pi4 support; nothing working yet but identified several changes required (bus to phys address mapping, serial console changes (?), the list goes on)
<ubottu> bug 1819444 in libcec (Debian) "libcec: Please stop linking to GPL-incompatible libraries" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1819444
<waveform> (done)
<vorlon> cyphermox:
<vorlon> evidently out
<vorlon>  * a few weeks since my last report
<vorlon>   * travelled to and from the UC20 sprint in London
<vorlon>   * last Thursday was a holiday here
<vorlon>   * was off Tuesday; will be off tomorrow and also next Wednesday
<vorlon>  * reviewing the (touchy) ubuntu-advantage-tools SRU to trusty
<vorlon>   * currently just working on verifying the authenticity of the GPG keys it's set up to import into apt's keyring
<vorlon>  * discussions around the toolchain-triggered regressions in kernel module buildability that made it into the release pocket
<vorlon>  * various follow-ups around full-disk encryption in UC20
<vorlon> (done)
<vorlon> any questions over status?
<bdmurray> I have no questions about status
<rbalint> not a single one either
<vorlon> #topic Release incoming bugs (eoan)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (eoan)
<vorlon> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> I forget did we talk about bug 1834226 before?
<ubottu> bug 1834226 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "update-notifier doesn't respect "automatically check for updates: Never"" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1834226
<vorlon> not that I know
<juliank> I don't think we did
<juliank> But we should definitely investigate this
<vorlon> agreed
<vorlon> if there is disagreement about what the UX here should be, we will probably want to involve the design team
<vorlon> but based on the bug history it looks like the current behavior in 19.04 is not what's expected
<vorlon> targeting, carding
<bdmurray> moving on then
<bdmurray> the initramfs-tools one is still incomplete
<vorlon> ok, skip then?
<bdmurray> yeah, bug 1396379
<ubottu> bug 1396379 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "installer uses first EFI system partition found even when directed otherwise" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396379
<vorlon> fwiw I think there had been some discussion of that bug on #ubuntu-release at the time w/ infinity, xnox, and tsimonq2; but it's not documented in the bug, so
<bdmurray> at what time?
<vorlon> when the bug was filed and xnox added his comment marking it incomplete
<vorlon> that was re: the initramfs-tools bug, not the ubiquity bug
<vorlon> why has this 5yo bug been escalated now?
<bdmurray> comment #29 I believe
<bdmurray> I don't know who Tom Reynolds is
<vorlon> I think we should decline this one
<sil2100> +1 - since sure, it's a bug, but it doesn't seem like a high-impact one
<bdmurray> comment #24 somebody says they bricked their laptop?
<vorlon> I think this is largely user error, and perhaps things could be made clearer but I don't think ubiquity is fundamentally broken here when multiple ESPs are present
<vorlon> bdmurray: with no other context we don't know what "bricked" actually means or why the user thinks this bug is their bug
<bdmurray> ack
<bdmurray> Do you want to comment on the bug / tag it rls-ee-notfixing?
<vorlon> I've tagged it
<bdmurray> apt-xapian-index is in universe for most releases...
<bdmurray> bug 1612948
<ubottu> bug 1612948 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) "axi-cache conversion to python3 broke the script" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1612948
<bdmurray> seb128 tagged the bug though
<vorlon> doesn't mean it's Foundations' responsibility to work it
<vorlon> because universe
<vorlon> skip?
<bdmurray> skip not decline?
<vorlon> (and I'll let seb128 know it's not Foundations)
<vorlon> well someone else could commit to doing the work
<vorlon> actually, good point, since -incoming is only for Canonical teams
<vorlon> yeah, decline then
<bdmurray> Is desktop subscribed to the package too?
<bdmurray> Nope, okay I will decline it
<bdmurray> the next is a ftbfs so card it
<vorlon> I will
<vorlon> actually it sounds like the ftbfs is fixed so I'll follow up on the bug state
<bdmurray> bug 1835809 is assigned to rbalint already, should it have a card?
<ubottu> bug 1835809 in systemd (Ubuntu) "AMD Ryzen 3000 series fails to boot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1835809
<vorlon> he mentioned that one in his status, I guess it's already uploaded and in -proposed
<bdmurray> sil2100: you were going to look at bug 1833758 iirc
<ubottu> bug 1833758 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "lvm2: vgcfgbackup in postinst takes several minutes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1833758
<vorlon> did we skip LP: #1836064?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1836064 in glibc (Ubuntu) "glibc needs an update for linux-5.2 kernel headers (alpha)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1836064
<vorlon> ah that might be the other end of the previous cross-build bug?
<bdmurray> vorlon: Oh, I think I did skip it.
<vorlon> oh, this is for alpha not powerpc, so a different bug
<vorlon> and evidently not fixed
<vorlon> so yes, that's another ftbfs, let's card it
<vorlon> (I will)
<sil2100> bdmurray: yes, but then I noticed you already checked what needed checking, right?
<bdmurray> sil2100: my vague note says "will see if image building is affected"
<sil2100> bdmurray: ok, so I can still check that, guess I missed that one
<sil2100> Will do that this week
<bdmurray> sil2100: okay, thanks
<bdmurray> So now we are in undecided territory
<bdmurray> bug 1830044
<ubottu> bug 1830044 in glibc (Ubuntu) "glibc 2.29-0ubuntu2 ADT test failure with linux 5.2.0-0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1830044
<bdmurray> That seems High correct?
<sil2100> Is that the kernel bug affecting glibc that we were talking about 2 weeks ago?
<sil2100> I mean, I remember some kernel bug affecting glibc thingy being discussed recently
<bdmurray> It was reported on 5/22 so maybe
<vorlon> may or may not be the same one, but it's surely resolved, the glibc in -proposed has passing autopkgtests
<bdmurray> So High and card it?
<vorlon> I don't think it should be carded
<vorlon> it's fixed in proposed
<sil2100> I guess it's just a matter of getting glibc released
<sil2100> Since it's the previous one that's failing
<bdmurray> Ah, got it.
<sil2100> Guess Adam's working on getting it migrating?
<vorlon> don't know if he is, but I have been
<bdmurray> Moving on to bug 1835660. Its super vague but seemed important so I tagged it.
<ubottu> bug 1835660 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "initramfs unpacking failed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1835660
<vorlon> doko: why did you mark LP: #1830044 rls-ee-incoming, given that the fixed glibc was already in -proposed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1830044 in glibc (Ubuntu) "glibc 2.29-0ubuntu2 ADT test failure with linux 5.2.0-0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1830044
<vorlon> not much detail in that bug
<bdmurray> Is there any follow up that should be done on the unpacking failed bug?
<vorlon> anyone have a booted eoan that they can check to see if this message shows on boot for them?
<sil2100> I guess it doesn't cause boot to fail, right?
<vorlon> right, but we don't want junk messages showing on the console at boot
<vorlon> reassigning to linux
<bdmurray> Okay. Then seb128 reminded me of a patch in bug 1551623
<ubottu> bug 1551623 in gconf (Ubuntu) "[SRU] package gconf2 3.2.6-3ubuntu6 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551623
<vorlon> is gconf a foundations package?
<seb128> vorlon, see the last comment
<vorlon> seb128: which is an observation about why the patch might be unnecessary when using newer dpkg
<seb128> vorlon, I asked bdmurray about whether we should/could consider SRUing that dpkg patch instead
<vorlon> does that imply desktop team is declining to apply the patch in this bug to gconf and wants Foundations to SRU dpkg instead?
<seb128> we would like the dpkg patch to be applied
<vorlon> I don't see a dpkg patch that's been isolated in that log
<seb128> it doesn't imply we nacl the gconf fix
<seb128> but bdmurray nacked the sponsoring request because the patch isn't in debian
<seb128> and it's not in debian because they EDONTCARE because they fixed dpkg
<bdmurray> I didn't nack it, I asked a question about it.
<seb128> https://git.dpkg.org/cgit/dpkg/dpkg.git/commit/?id=b5c50b3c6
<seb128> I guess?
<seb128> and https://git.dpkg.org/cgit/dpkg/dpkg.git/commit/?id=7f43bf5
<vorlon> ok, so someone should file a bug against dpkg with this context
<seb128> k
<seb128> thx
<seb128> will do that for next week :)
<vorlon> seb128: thanks - probably target the bug directly to xenial/bionic and flag us the bug # so we get it on our trello
<vorlon> #topic Release incoming bugs (bionic)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (bionic)
<bdmurray> disco?
<vorlon> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> yeah, disco too
<bdmurray> and the bug here is the one we just declined
 * vorlon nods
<bdmurray> because its in universe
<bdmurray> Should we unsubscribe from the package now?
<vorlon> what did we decide wrt packages that are in main only in releases that are in ESM now?
<vorlon> I think Foundations is no longer responsible for those; Security Team is responsible for ESM
<bdmurray> I don't think we did decide about ESM
<vorlon> I propose that we should unsubscribe if they're only in main for <= trusty
<vorlon> bdmurray: do you want an action for this? :)
<vorlon> (or a card?)
<bdmurray> vorlon: for unsubscribing from the package or something more?
<vorlon> for unsubscribing from all packages that are only in main for <= trusty
<seb128> vorlon, bdmurray, bug filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/1836225
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1836225 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "SRUing the dpkg trigger improvements to bionic" [Undecided,New]
<bdmurray> a card as I'm taking off this afternoon and tomorow and might forget stuff
<vorlon> ok
<juliank> I filed a bug for thatearlier
<vorlon> juliank: for dpkg?
<juliank> Or reused bdmurray's bug
<juliank> yes, for dpkg
<juliank> It already has a card
<seb128> juliank, ah, sorry, I didn't see it in the recent dpkg ones, feel free to mark it as dup then
<juliank> I also have the list of commits from guillem I have to cherry-pick :)
<bdmurray> bug 1828639 has dpkg tasks
<ubottu> bug 1828639 in dpkg (Ubuntu Eoan) "package libvlc-bin 3.0.6-1 failed to install/upgrade: 90.8592:triggers looping, abandoned" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1828639
<juliank> yeah, that's it
<bdmurray> isn't it fixed for Eoan now though?
<juliank> It's certainly in proposed
<juliank> FWIW, this is the card: https://trello.com/c/nECzoqs2/2039-package-menu-2147ubuntu3-failed-to-install-upgrade-triggers-looping-abandoned
<bdmurray> We'd found that already
<juliank> Planned uploading that soon, was waiting for infinity to do eoan, which has been done now
<vorlon> juliank: so you are SRUing that?
<juliank> I planned on doing that, yes
<vorlon> ok
<bdmurray> juliank: that should fix many? all? trigger looping issues
<juliank> bdmurray: all AFAIUI
<bdmurray> so a bug scrub may be in order
<vorlon> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> I guess we have to go quick, 1 minute left :P
<vorlon> a lot of ppc64el backlog there
<vorlon> which explains most of glibc
<vorlon> sphinx was a non-Foundations upload, but it's not clear if oSoMoN is following up
<vorlon> I'll ping him
<waveform> vorlon, I was handling the sphinx one
<vorlon> waveform: oh ok
<waveform> sorry - slipped under the radar this week with pi4 and u-boot filling my head!
<vorlon> python-service-identity
<vorlon> was anyone working on this? it was an autosync
<vorlon> who wants to volunteer to take python-service-identity?
<seb128> vorlon, waveform, sphinx was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python3.7/+bug/1834236 afaik
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1834236 in python3.7 (Ubuntu) "codecs.open(errors='strict') doesn't fail on invalid encoding with python3.7.4 RC1" [High,Fix released]
<seb128> (unless we have a new one)
<rbalint> let's see, i retried the build
<vorlon> python-reportlab: the autopkgtests don't fail in Debian, I've retried them now and will follow through
<vorlon> python-setuptools: reprotest/i386 is a progression (or flaky test) rather than a regression, we can sort that out
<vorlon> but libcloud/armhf looks like a real regression
<vorlon> anyone want to dig into that?
 * vorlon tries a --no-proposed autopkgtest retry
<vorlon> put your hand up if you want to claim it; meanwhile, moving on
<vorlon> debian-installer needs an update for linux 5.2
<vorlon> I'll check w/ infinity on that
<vorlon> glib2.0, I think the Desktop Team is managing that one
<vorlon> and then we're done
<vorlon> #topic Chair selection for next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Chair selection for next meeting
<vorlon> who should we nominate that isn't here to object?
<bdmurray> doko!
<juliank> He'll be at DebCamp
<juliank> I'm off next Thu, Fri
<vorlon> anyone else who hasn't had a turn lately?
<juliank> Should we keep a list of this
 * vorlon shrugs :)
<vorlon> I'm not keeping the list :)
<juliank> We could grep the backlog
<vorlon> tdaitx: you want to chair next?
<tdaitx> vorlon: yeah
<juliank> Sounds sensible
<vorlon> #agreed tdaitx to chair next
<vorlon> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<vorlon> anything else?
<juliank> Again, to make sure it sticks: I'm off next Thu, Fri
 * vorlon nods
<juliank> Also DebConf after that
<bdmurray> I'm out this afternoon and tomorrow
<vorlon> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 11 16:11:58 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-07-11-15.02.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks, all!
<doko> vorlon: there's no hint about that in the report
<vorlon> doko: sure; the bug report was untriaged, but a check of the current status of the autopkgtests would've shown that there's a newer passing version, so I don't understand why you were a) looking at this bug and b) nominating it
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-07-09
<bdmurray> Let's skip the foundations team meeting given the product sprint
<sil2100> +1
<juliank> :(
<bdmurray> sorry for the short notice
<doko> "short"?
<juliank> notice?
<rbalint> negative :-)
