#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-13
<scott-work> ciao quadrispro, you handle the cdbs vs dh flame war rather nicely :)
<quadrispro> ehy scott-work, thank you
<quadrispro> I don't like this kind of flame at all
<scott-work> yeah, i know :(  it's rather counterproductive
<scott-work> territorial pissings :(
<quadrispro> I fail to see benefits getting from a war CDBSvsDH
<scott-work> is jonas an author of CDBS?
<quadrispro> scott-work, yes I think
<scott-work> i should note that i felt jonas's offer to fix the issue with CDBS seemed quite genuine and gracious (as oppossed to telling someone else to fix it with CDBS)
<scott-work> he is quite an asset then to have on the debian multimedia team then :)
<quadrispro> it's easy to get an impression like: "oh! he was so kind!"
<quadrispro> I really like his job, but a matter of principle doesn't help anyone
<quadrispro> scott-work, and he feels this as a question of principle
<quadrispro> please take a look at the ML archive 
<scott-work> i have seen several of his emails, and they do have a certain 'cdbs is the "proper" way to do it' undercurrent to them
<quadrispro> I have to leave
<quadrispro> ciao scott-work !
<falktx> hi guys
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-14
<quadrispro> hi!
<quadrispro> ScottL,what do you think about asking archive-admins to sync swh-lv2 from Debian NEW?
<quadrispro> we should ask for a freeze-exception, of course
<scott-work> ciao quadrispro :)
<quadrispro> ehy scott-work ! :)
<scott-work> we may a little late for maverick for swh-lv2
<quadrispro> working on new fluidsynth release right now with diwic
<quadrispro> scott-work, yeah, I know
<scott-work> although i *think* i understand you concern about syncing from unstable
<scott-work> my guess is that natty will be in development before swh-lv2 is moved into stable, is that correct ?
<quadrispro> scott-work, lol, no, I concern about: when natty becomes the ubuntu+1, lenny may not be released again! :D
<quadrispro> s/lenny/squeeze/
<quadrispro> scott-work, please replace 'lenny' with 'squeeze'
<scott-work> so we would still need to ask for exception to sync from unstable then?  (i'm still not completely fluent with debian release procedures)
<quadrispro> scott-work, no, we would still need for a sync-from-debian-new :)
<quadrispro> I hope it won't be so
<scott-work> doh, sorry, i read your statement that said debian-new and i erroneously have been saying unstable, my apologies
<scott-work> my hope is to hit the ground running for natty and make changes as soon as possible
<scott-work> anyone who is interested can look:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning
<scott-work> quadrispro: i suppose in a couple of months we will cross that bridge then
<scott-work> quadrispro: oh, i have forgotten...would you mind updating hydrogen-drumkits?  i notice that debian is apparently outdated compared ubuntu
<quadrispro> mm
<quadrispro> don't have the time now, I'll take a look later
<scott-work> i should note also that the release planning page is open to anyone to add to it
<quadrispro> scott-work, I see the same revision -> http://packages.qa.debian.org/h/hydrogen-drumkits.html
<scott-work> quadrispro: no rush on the hydrogen-drumkits, i just wanted to add it to the seeds for natty
<scott-work> weird, this shows ubuntu at 0.9.4 :  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/ubuntustudio.html#outdatedinA
<quadrispro> lol, it is
<scott-work> hmm, quadrispro, very strange, but launchpad appears to have the same version as debian   :/
<quadrispro> scott-work, take a look -> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=Debian+Multimedia :)
<quadrispro> scott-work, no, take a look at this -> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=Debian+Multimedia&set=yes&bugs=1&version=1&ubuntu=1&excuses=1&bin=1&buildd=1&problems=1&popc=1&watch=1&section=1&ordering=0&uploads=1&packages=&uploader=&mirror=http%3A%2F%2Fftp.debian.org%2Fdebian
<quadrispro> 'ubuntu' colums should be shown now
<quadrispro> column *
<scott-work> ubuntu has -3 while debian has -1, but that doesn't explain 0.9.4 though
<scott-work> eh, -3 is in testing/unstable
<scott-work> as well
<scott-work> gah, quadrispro, i'm an idiot :/
<quadrispro> scott-work, no, I know a lot of idiots and you don't seem one of them :)
<scott-work> i've been comparing hydrogen, not hydrogen-drumkits which isn't in the qa.ubuntuwire.com link i sent
<scott-work> quadrispro: lol, thanks
<quadrispro> ah! hydrogen
<quadrispro> please give me some minutes
<scott-work> the whole purpose of my research was to get -drumkits into ubuntu studio, which means it isn't going to be on the qu.ubuntuwire.com link  *foreheadslap*
<falktx> scott-work: is pyqt ok for ubuntustudio ?
<falktx> afaik, ubuntustudio already has some Qt apps (mixxx, qsynth, hydrogen, etc)
<scott-work> falktx: i would probably defer that question to TheMuso or persia 
<scott-work> but i would imagine it should be okay since qjackctl uses it also
<scott-work> well, i assume it uses it
<falktx> yes
<falktx> but not pyqt, just 'qt'
<falktx> maybe i should start making c++...
<falktx> scott-work: i'll use pyqt then, c++ is way too much for me
<falktx> scott-work: let me know if persia and TheMuso are ok with it
<falktx> scott-work: oh, and send me all the ideas for a config/patchbay you have now
<falktx> cya
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-15
<abogani> ScottL: ping
<rlameiro> scott-work: ping
<scott-work> hi rlameiro :)  how are you?
<rlameiro> scott-work: i am fine, and you?
<rlameiro> scott-work: Sorry for the absence. About the UBS controls, it seams to me that this tool is comming to a no need stage
<rlameiro> at least for the things i saw on the mailing list
<quadrispro> scott-work, hi! can you do some testing on a maverick's package?
<scott-work> quadrispro: certainly
<scott-work> rlameiro: i am fine as well
<quadrispro> scott-work, please install lives
<scott-work> rlameiro: big changes afoot for natty:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning
<scott-work> quadrispro: from the archives?
<quadrispro> yep
<quadrispro> and let me know what happens
<scott-work> quadrispro: i shall do it tonight, anything in particular to look for?
<quadrispro> scott-work, it should crash
<scott-work> quadrispro: LOL, yeah, that's something pretty distinct and noticeable ;)
<quadrispro> easy to notice :)
<quadrispro> scott-work, what great guy is lives' upstream: seems already fixed in trunk :)
<scott-work> quadrispro: wow, that is super
<scott-work> quadrispro: i had given thought to including lives as a video editor because of it's jack capabilities
<scott-work> quadrispro: but i dont' really know how well it functions, how easy it's UI is, etc
<scott-work> quadrispro: and to be honest, it sounds neat, but really how functionally relevant is a jack enabled NLE compared to a traditional NLE ?
<astraljava> scott-work: Yay! Placed a DSL order yesterday (or actually, wife did :o ) so will have better connectivity and thus much more likely participation in the near future!
<quadrispro> scott-work, basically it's designed to be simple, so it provides a an easy and friendly GUI
<quadrispro> scott-work, but the great point is that it mixes NLE capabilities with vj-ing features
<rlameiro> scott-work: it looks very nice
<rlameiro> scott-work: I was thinking also in changing the menus, maybe makind diferent sections for audio apps, instead of having that neverending menu :D
<scott-work> quadrispro: hmmm, i didn't think about vj-ing features :)
<scott-work> rlameiro:  that is something that has been putted around several times
<scott-work> rlameiro: the menu restructure
<rlameiro> i dont know what you think
<quadrispro> scott-work, take a look at the features page -> http://lives.sourceforge.net/index.php?do=features
<rlameiro> but at least split midi from audio 
<scott-work> rlameiro: although if we separate the audio apps into two distinct packages, i would expect most users would only install one of them and the menu would be more presentable
<rlameiro> no packages
<scott-work> but that doesn't mean that we still shouldn't consider moderating the menu still
<rlameiro> just on the menu
<scott-work> rlameiro: even if we change the menu i would still consider dividing the audio into two packages, i strongly believe that most users do not want both sets (tone generation vs live) of packages
<scott-work> rlameiro: also, many new pd packages are going into debian lately....a lot
<rlameiro> yes, they are finally implementing the pd extended kind of thing on debian!!!1 at last :D
<rlameiro> scott-work: i think maybe it should be made 3 packages.
<rlameiro> scott-work: Live - Sound Generation - Audio Programming
<rlameiro> Audio programming having :
<scott-work> rlameiro: is there enough for the audio programming ?  in the archives i mean?
<scott-work> heh, you're already answering :)
<rlameiro> Super collider, Pd, Csound, Clam, Faust etc
<rlameiro> and other nice tools for analisys like sonic visualizer
<rlameiro> http://www.sonicvisualiser.org/
<scott-work> is chuck in the archives ?
<rlameiro> maybe
<rlameiro> This will undoubtly get into the "academia" user base :D
<scott-work> this would certainly make an arguement for another submenu then
<rlameiro> i think super collider is not in there
<rlameiro> well, you can make a "OEM" install for UNI composition and Acoustics departement :D
<rlameiro> that is for sure
<scott-work> i wonder why supercollider isn't there...i wonder if this is one of the applications that has licensing issues?
<rlameiro> https://launchpad.net/~supercollider/+archive/ppa
<scott-work> there was a package in dapper :P
<rlameiro> scott-work: from the SC website "SuperCollider is free software (published under the GPLv2 free software license)."
<scott-work> but i guess it is one of those (like linux sampler) that has licensing issues
<scott-work> holstein and i talked about making a wiki page where we list the reasons packages are included (over others) and reasons packages are not included
<rlameiro> maybe it will be my first debian package
<rlameiro> lol
<holstein> rlameiro: hey :)
<scott-work> rlameiro: but even though supercollider is gplv2 some of the packages it uses might not be
<rlameiro> I am also thinking if we all try to make the packages for debian instead
<scott-work> rlameiro: yes, we have been working with quadrispro quite a bit to focus in this direction
<rlameiro> and then it will downstream
<holstein> yeah, just a place of reference, so when the questions come up, thats where the answers are well documented
<rlameiro> holstein: yo!!
<scott-work> rlameiro: he's gotten a lot of lv2 stuff pacakged in debian (and then synced to ubuntu) :)
<holstein> 'why dont we have network manager?'
<holstein> 'wheres the RT kernel?'
<rlameiro> lol the historic question
<holstein> that kind of thing
<holstein> + the package decisions being made
<rlameiro> holstein / scott-work it looks like very helpfull. is it going to be FAQ like?
<scott-work> rlameiro: good question
<holstein> hey
<holstein> thats a good idea
<holstein> hell, its a wiki
<scott-work> i've thought about FAQ or a matrix, but i kinda wanted to tie things together also with the changes being made with packages due to the workflows
<holstein> could be arranged however
<rlameiro> something like
<holstein> and change i suppose
<scott-work> so i'm leaning towards a matrix for the majority of it
<rlameiro> Q: Why doesnt UBS have this XXXXX package?
<scott-work> but probably some of the important ones (e.g. network manager, -rt kernel) should be in a faq
<rlameiro> A: because bla bla bla
<rlameiro> a FAQ would work for the more "macro" discussions
<scott-work> you know, this is kinda excititng, it seems like studio has a small group of engaged people who are motived to get things done :)
<scott-work> we have a good chance to make some significant strides
<rlameiro> scott-work: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/494249/
<rlameiro> this are the dependencies of super collider
<rlameiro> it seems very GPL Friendly :D
<rlameiro> and debian friendly
<scott-work> it certainly appears so, but until you read each file of the package you don't really know, i found this out trying to get zynjacku into ubuntu :P
<scott-work> quadrispro: do you remember if there is a reason that supercollider is not in debian ?
<holstein> maybe a mix
<holstein> q&a and a list
<quadrispro> scott-work, uh? no :/
<quadrispro> see you later
<quadrispro> bye!
<scott-work> rlameiro: well, there you go, maybe no reason at all LOL
<rlameiro> he he
<scott-work> updated workflows page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-16
<quadrispro> ScottL, thanks for the memo!
<quadrispro> ScottL, I've uploaded the new 1.3.9 release
<quadrispro> it should work better
<scott-work> quadrispro:  was my LiVES test result what you expected?
<quadrispro> ScottL, well, no, though I'm happy of that :)
<quadrispro> ScottL, anyway, I've uploaded the new 1.3.9 release, it seems the *real* new upstream stable version
<scott-work> quadrispro: yes, i saw your email about patches for the current (in debian/ubuntu) release vs. the upstream current release
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-17
<rexbron> hey
<rexbron> TheMuso, persia: Any suggestions for handling out of source cmake builds in a debian package? Currently, I'm having to cd into a dir that I create and && a bunch of commands together
<persia> You could write a build script, and then call that from debian/rules
<persia> Or patch the upstream build system to allow it from a single call
<astraljava> Ok this is mysterious; two maverick install discs fail at Select and install software.
<astraljava> Anyone else seeing that?
<holstein> astraljava: again...
<holstein> D'oh
<holstein> astraljava: theres a step in the installer after it fails
<holstein> if the failing install computer is online
<holstein> it makes a webserver that you can go and get the logs from
<holstein> astraljava: can/did you do that and see what package/s borked it?
<astraljava> holstein: Yeah I have installed it after that step, but the problem is that I've got 3G, which requires NetworkManager, which requires gdm...
<holstein> AH
<holstein> i saw other options for reporting, that was just the easiest for me since it was online
<astraljava> Downloading the image again, and will trytomorrow.
<holstein> :/
<holstein> i should do that too
<holstein> the 64bit ones
<astraljava> That's what I'm trying, guess I should get the 32-bit as well. IT should be finished overnight. :)
<astraljava> holstein: Sorry, I didn't read very well. I'll try that webserver thingie when I have installed the switch into the cabinet, so that I can network that machine locally.
<persia> ScottL, You might want to join #ubuntu-devel : sistpoty is currently verifying release delegates for flavours.
<astraljava> persia: Does he require someone's presence from the team? If Scott is unavailable, I can assist temporarily.
<persia> He needs someone to be officially responsible for review of any uploads that affect the release.
<persia> And I believe that is supposed to be one person.
<persia> Anyway, ask ScottL, or for clarification in #ubuntu-release for more details (I have an overview of procedure, and presence in lots of channels, but don't know this bit so well)
<ScottL> i accepted responsibility, although i don't necessairly expect too much to be exacted
<astraljava> Okay, that's good. :)
<persia> As long as you're following in -release, the few times something is raised, it ought be brought to your attention.
 * persia is thinking about a WildMidi update that would include features, but doesn't think it's actually in the packageset
<ScottL> i'll add -release to my settings so i stay in the channel all the time then
<persia> You might want to idle in -devel also.  You may or may not be interested in all traffic there, but that channel gets used a lot for inter-flavour coordination.
<ScottL> hi rlameiro 
<ScottL> persia, i already have -devel in my default channels :)
<rlameiro> Hey ScottL 
<persia> #ubuntu-devel?
<persia> I just didn't see you three :)
<ScottL> rlameiro, have you had a chance to test the latest maverick ISO with the recently patched gnome-network-admin
<rlameiro> persia: are you on the arm project?
<ScottL> i'm really curious how it works for wifi users
<persia> rlameiro, I'm in *lots* of IRC channels.  I do some ARM porting, and have some ARM machines.
<rlameiro> ScottL: not yet, trying to figure out ubuntu on my arm single computer...
<rlameiro> persia: FTW
<rlameiro> persia: beagle board? or some clone?
<ScottL> lol, everytime i see that i don't read that as "for the win" ;)
<ScottL> it comes from being influence by nihilistic 80's metal :P
<rlameiro> he he, right now i am converting a vmware vm to quemu bin, to convert it back to vbox....
<rlameiro> my pc is on FIRE
<persia> rlameiro, I've a beagle, a QNAP TS-119, a Kurobox, an n810, a netwalker, and an SLC-3100.  Only the Beagle can run maverick, so the rest aren't really running proper Ubuntu.  the beagle is my least favorite, but I wanted to keep things in shape for when I can get supported hardware.
<rlameiro> persia: nice:D mine is a beagle clone, but a little better
<persia> (oh, and both Sharp handhelds are dead in annoying ways)
<rlameiro> its an IGEPv2 512Ram
<rlameiro> well, yeah, ARMV7 its the way to go
<persia> Any ideas on why lash doesn't build?  I'd like to get Studio running on arm.
<rlameiro> the others are so slow...
<rlameiro> persia: I am trying to do a FX box with it :D
<persia> Then you and I have similar goals there :)
<rlameiro> persia: FTW
<rlameiro> I will use puredata as a processing backend
<persia> Are there any missing packages that especially annoy you?  I'll put them higher on my list for porting time.
<rlameiro> making the patches for effects 
<rlameiro> persia: for now i just want to put it making sound:D
<rlameiro> but the pd libs in debian would be nice:D
<persia> OK.  You probably want to chat with mpoirer: I know he's looking into the ASoC on the beagles, and would probably appreciate testers.  He's in -arm.
<rlameiro> at least the new ones
<persia> Getting new versions is tricky, with the archive frozen, but getting stuff built counts as fixing release-critical bugs :)
<rlameiro> i am there, my problem is that i cant tar my rootfs inside the VM
<persia> I booted one of the netbook images, and then uninstalled everything I didn't want, and installed stuff I wanted.  I recommend trying that.
<persia> then you can just use apt-get to tune the system.
<rlameiro> so i am porting my vm to virtual box, the igep guys give a vm with ubuntu in it, where you have all the toolchain to build kernels and rootfs for it
<rlameiro> persia: problem with ubuntu images is that they need a first boot with DVI/hdmi
<rlameiro> but i am running it headless UART/SSH
<rlameiro> not good for me, so i need to build my own rootfs with rootstock
<rlameiro> and also build the kernel with the preempt choice :D
<persia> Then I'm not the right person :)  But ask in -arm, and I'm sure someone will help you.
<persia> For -preempt for omap, talk to mpoirer
<rlameiro> persia: have you tried some LCD on the beagle?
<persia> No.  I connected DVI to get it set up, and run headless as a buildd.  It's lower-spec than most of my handhelds.
<persia> But, really, better to talk about armel in -arm
<persia> (unless you have studio-specific stuff, which I'm happy to discuss here)
<rlameiro> persia: well, what is the best audio backen in arm?
<rlameiro> oss or alsa?
<rlameiro> this is inportant for studio :D
<persia> ASoC, which implements the ALSA interface.
<persia> Most of the vendors hire ASoC implementors during bringup.  I haven't heard of much vendor support for OSS in armel.
<rlameiro> persia: do you think we could make some "distro" for arm devices?
<persia> Sure.  If we port all the apps, we can do a studio image for ARM
<persia> (assuming ScottL allows it, and we have testers)
<rlameiro> well, some apps will not be nice in arm low end
<rlameiro> we could make a stripdown version :D
<persia> The seed tools allow one to select different applications on a per-architecture basis, or we could do a "effects box" image for amd64/armel as a controllable tone generator.
<rlameiro> thats the idea
<persia> Anyway, first get *your* machine working.  Once that works, we can figure out what belongs on that kind of target, and then we can ask if we can make an image.
<rlameiro> I was thinking in designing an app in python/gtk/qt to select things
<rlameiro> something on top of say, ... jackrack or something
<rlameiro> my idea was to make pd booting at startup and then having a control patch that would launch effects via outside commands
<rlameiro> eitheir via OSC or MIDI or even direct TCP/IP
<persia> That, or make it just start everything by default somehow, and expect external MIDI/OSC controls
<rlameiro> that will burn the processor :D
<rlameiro> I even am reading DSP stuff to implement some of the pd Harder objects in the DSP
<rlameiro> that would be awesome
<rlameiro> FFT precessing without waiting
<rlameiro> maybe there is something like that already
<persia> I'm not sure.
<rlameiro> if the fftw3 lib is ported for the dsp it will be awesome
 * persia tends to focus on having things exist before optimising them
<rlameiro> persia: anyway, first things first
<persia> Anyway, time for food
<rlameiro> i will also talk with the people of puredata
<rlameiro> there is a lot of fuzz on the embedded and pd
<rlameiro> it runs already on the iphone/ipod
<rlameiro> and preliminary steps in android
<persia> Please: let's get Ubuntu on that list :)
<rlameiro> yeap
<rlameiro> ubuntu-arm :D
<ScottL> rlameiro, you still around?
<ScottL> i've begun to update the FAQ page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/FAQ
<ScottL> i not only restructured it a bit, but i also added a SoftwareSelection link where i'll start documenting reasons we include or exlude applications
<ScottL> (i think we were talking about this before)
<ScottL> i've been talking with holstein about it as well
<ScottL> i encourage you to add whatever you think is appropriate
<ScottL> .
<ScottL> rlameiro, i would also encourage you to add a pure data workflow (and any other academia ones you can think of) to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows
<ScottL> i'll be adding to this page over the weekend as well
<ScottL> rlameiro, i don't remember if i told you or not, but instead of being an "application factory" where we try to included everything available without any coherent association
<ScottL> we will be focusing on tasks, specifically how to accomplish specific tasks
<ScottL> if we develop a workflow to accomplish a task this will provide reason for an application's inclusion
<ScottL> this will help us re-evaluate package selection in ubuntu studio
<ScottL> defining a workflow will also provide a skeleton from which to develop documentation
<ScottL> hopefully, this will yield a leaner, more focused and usable ubuntu studio
<rlameiro> ok
<rlameiro> it seems very good idea
<ScottL> i don't claim credit for this idea, it was persia 's idea, i hope i am able to effect it though :)
<ScottL> rather i hope i have the ability to effect it
<ScottL> .
<ScottL> persia, i should be adding a section to the FAQ listed above about why ISO's will continue to be made for ubuntu studio vs. ubuntu livecd & ppa installation
<ScottL> i feel this would be important to document and continue to append to the list when new reasons are remembered, discovered, or developed
 * persia doesn't deserve credit either: the idea of workflow-based usability was collaborative between both of us in combination to a general atmosphere of focus on usability in Ubuntu these days.
<ScottL> troy has been preaching something akin to this, but in a less concise and palatable manner :P
<persia> ScottL, That's a good idea, and it becomes even more important as we trend towards a single high-performance kernel for Studio and Desktop, because it's just not going to perform well running from CD or USB.
<ScottL> usually troy is more "its crap and there's no reason for doing the things you are doing....arrgghhh!  no reason, NO REASON!"
<ScottL> lol
<persia> troy knows far too much about this, and so tends to use technical meanings of terms we often consider just words.  The concept of "audience" usually takes 20-30 thinkings about before one understands it doesn't mean "the people who see things" except when it does, for example.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-18
<holstein> personally i would like to see a live disc
<holstein> for trouble-shooting purposes
<holstein> i dont think anyone intends to use the thing live for production
<holstein> for that question 'will my device work with JACK'
<holstein> and how does that look
<ScottL> i think troy is brilliant personally, he has focused me to really examine what we do and why, and for that i'm extremely grateful
<holstein> and how hard is the setup
<persia> I guess.  Lots of stuff behaves differently live (investigate casper for details), so lots of bugs only happen for real or only happen in live sessions.  Depends on the bug, of course.
<holstein> the only way to really do that with ubuntustudio is install it
<persia> For look, we can provide screenshots.  For "Does it work with my device", we can try to build a list of known working devices.
<holstein> true
<holstein> but theres always that one guy with that old device
<persia> For "How hard is the setup" the key is to make it so simple that people have finished the install and started doing stuff before they notice that it's complicated technical stuff :)
<holstein> ;)
 * persia is that guy
<holstein> hehe
<ScottL> persia, do you have any thoughts about simplifying the install process?
<ScottL> some have suggested moving away from alternate install to the gui install
<holstein> and, i like the way the live installer works
<holstein> all hte questions are asked
<holstein> and then you hit the button
<holstein> you have to sit with the alternate installer
<ScottL> i do not think the alternate install is all that bad, but it certainly could be improved in a few places
<holstein> AND i realize there are benifits though
<persia> ScottL, GUI install only works for live images.
<persia> There is a *different* GUI for alternate, but nobody has really tested it much.
<ScottL> heh, holstein mentioned the alternate install also :P
<holstein> and i like the grub install options from the live installer
<persia> holstein, Ought be easy to pre-ask all the interesting questions if we want.
<holstein> persia: that would be awesome
<holstein> seems like you have to come back about 4 or 5 times
<persia> holstein, if you have time, go study "preseeding debian installs"
<persia> Well, that's what we do now, with the alternate installer: ask the critical 4-5 questions.
<persia> If we know we're going to ask certain questions, we can ask them in advance.
<ScottL> we can also control the context in which they are asked
<persia> Some questions can't be asked in advance (like disk partition layout), and have to be interactive.
<holstein> persia: im *all* about that
<persia> Ubiquity is basically just a python frontend to the alternate installer components anyway.
<holstein> would that be an easy goal?
<holstein> for the alternate ubuntustudio installer to get to ?
<persia> Technically, it's not that hard (mostly simple shell scripts).
<holstein> COOL
<holstein> thats really my biggest issue
<ScottL> persia, if we divide audio packages into separate meta-packages we will need to update the install for the additional selection
<ScottL> is this hard?
<holstein> hell with the way it looks
<holstein> it works great
<persia> But debian-installer is complicated and confusing compared to other things, and the only way to test it is to install, and the only way to test changes is to build a new install image, which makes it fearsome to many folks.
<holstein> persia: i am available to test 
<persia> ScottL, With seed-based task management, it's essentially automated: we just identify which tasks we install, and adjust the preseeding, and it does the right thing.
<holstein> and im into learing whatever i can
<holstein> to be more helpful
<persia> holstein, If you want to learn about the installer, I can provide some signposts, but I'll recommend first launching the alternate installer, interrupting the install, and looking at all the various scripts.
<holstein> persia: i like that
<holstein> persia: how would i interrupt?
<persia> Once you have an idea about how the parts fit together you can probably make more progress.
<persia> The installation-manual-${arch} package tends to be useful to read as well.
<persia> When presented with the first question, select <Back>
<holstein> the live CD project is for me to hopefully learn a bit too
<persia> Those are two completely different directions :)
<holstein> yeah, but i thought that would 'get my feet wet'
<holstein> and be easier for me to get my mind around
<persia> But for livecd, just adjust livecd-rootfs and then build an image with the code in the lp:~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu repository.
<persia> Anything else will be going down the wrong road.
<persia> I don't think it's a good idea, but it's simple to do it (but *lots* to learn to do it right: casper and ubiquity are interesting bits of software)
<holstein> theres a local guy that does both
<holstein> im going to pick his brain soon
<holstein> i think im still too newb to just figure some of the more technical stuff out on my own
<holstein> i need to see it
<ScottL> also i would like to adjust the installation text to add "LV2" to the install selection for "[   ] LADSPA and DSSI plugins"
<holstein> ScottL: good call
<ScottL> i have a note to myself about that, but i wanted to put it out there so others might remember as well
<ScottL> i also want to develop the workflow page a little more and then send an announcement to the mailing list and forums about it to get user input
<ScottL> hopefully in a month or so we have a better, more fleshed out version of which packages we want to include and perhaps any changes for additional meta-packages
<ScottL> rlameiro also suggested an audio meta-package containing pd and a few other applications (chuck is the only other one i can remember being mentioned)
<persia> Just in time to start executing for natty :)
<ScottL> persia, well, yes, that would be the plan although i feel like we are already running out of time :/
<persia> Just be aware of the install experience: try running a Server install to see how confusing it can be if there are too many tasks.
<rlameiro> supercollider
<ScottL> i've been thinking about a w.u.c. page to help the package selection development, i might get to this during the weekend as well
<rlameiro> faust, CLAM etc
<ScottL> supercollider is not in the archives for either debian or ubuntu
<ScottL> it is because of a "non-commerical" clause if i remember correctly
<rlameiro> unfortunatly
<rlameiro> really?
<rlameiro> it is GPL
<persia> ScottL, The point of the pace of Ubuntu development is that we are *always* running out of time, and so are forced to focus on integration and polish, rather than actually changing how things work.  Improving things ends up being better to do in Debian, and making things really better ought be done upstream.  That said, for us to be successful, we need to closely coordinate with both groups :)
<rlameiro> that is linuxsampler
<persia> linuxsampler isn't in the archives because of licensing.
<ScottL> although persia and quadrispro talked about reimplimenting demalloc.cc or some other piece of it
<persia> Supercollider isn't in the archives because of some porting bugs that made it unsuitable for several architectures.  Supposedly they are fixed, and artfwo was working on packages.
<ScottL> oh good
<ScottL> persia, quadrispro also mentioned about possibly getting an exception to sync from debian new for natty
<ScottL> will this be problematic?
<persia> Nobody seems to be uploading artfwo's packages though: this is the sort of thing where it would be better to have the packages go into debian-multimedia.
<persia> We don't sync from NEW.
<persia> We can do a parallel upload.
<persia> You're the person in charge of deciding if a new-feature-inclusive package is permitted or not permitted with a frozen archive.
<persia> As long as you're sure it makes things better and doesn't break things, the release team will accept your judgement.
<persia> That said, if you accept something that breaks stuff, you're responsible for making sure the broken stuff gets unbroken before release :)
<ScottL> lol, of course
<ScottL> should we get quadrispro in contact with artfwo and see about moving supercollider into debian then?
<ScottL> testing will obviously be the order of the day then so things don't break
<persia> That seems like a good plan.
<ScottL> but i don't think we need to include *every* new package, and each new package considered should be closely scrutinized for necessity
<persia> it's probably worth looking over REVU once in a while, and highlighting packages that look like they ought get considered.
<persia> Some need more review, some need handoff to debian-multimedia
<ScottL> i can do that this upcoming week and coordinate with quadrispro as needed
<persia> Once they are in the archive, they can then be considered components for inclusion as Studio evolves.
<ScottL> i would really like to get swh-lv2 into natty though (which is in debian NEW currently)
<persia> I'm happy to do reviews once in a while too, although I'm not currently able to get stuff into Debian.
<ScottL> it's not RC of course, but i feel bad that it hasn't been done already
<persia> Get quadrispro to upload it and file a freeze exception bug, and then approve the freeze exception bug.
<persia> Oh, if you don't consider it RC, then it's not maverick: it will end up in natty for sure.
<persia> (and doesn't need a bug, just needs Debian to release so the Debian ftp-masters start processing NEW again)
<ScottL> right, but quadrispro said it was an extremely viable that Debian might not release in time for natty :(
<persia> What!
<persia> Debian is in final release freeze.
<persia> There's something like 100 bugs to be fixed.
<persia> If that can't happen in 6 months, we have huge issues because our upstream is unhealthy.
<persia> (really 3 months, but Debian froze in the beginning of August, and seems to be about half-way to release since then)
<ScottL> maybe he confused maverick and natty, perhaps i miss understood him then
<ScottL> i certainly hope you are right :)
<ScottL> upon reflection, given your reaction and others comments about maverick, the comment was probably directed at maverick
<ScottL> per our conversation earlier with the seeds, i consider maverick frozen and am focusing my energies on making natty absolutely rock :)
 * ScottL is going out to eat with family 
<persia> Good plan about the frozen bit: be prepared to deal with confused developers who want you to just approve their small upload :)
<ScottL> persia, should i expect numerous requests in the next two months for uploads?
<persia> ScottL, 3 weeks, and probably 15-20 at least.
<astraljava> Uhh... "The following packages have unmet dependencies:"
<astraljava> foomatic-db-compressed-ppds: Conflicts foomatic-db but 20100915-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
<astraljava> Conflicts: foomatic-db-hpijs
<astraljava> No-one else seriously bumping into this? Is this an amd64 issue only, and people are not testing it?
<astraljava> How does one look into install images for errors like these?
<astraljava> Anyone into install image errors? I've got a problem like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/495802/ on Ubuntu Studio amd64 installation, Select and install software -phase.
<astraljava> Sorry, wrong channel...
<persia> Just for edification of anyone watching, 90% of the time that's an architecture-specific problem, and 75% of the time it's temporary.  Checking the LP page for a package & version will report whether it needs action (package fails to build vs. package waiting to build)
<astraljava> persia: Thanks, I'm looking into it.
<persia> I suspect we failed to make a seed change when -desktop did, personally.
<astraljava> persia: There is a seed entry by Colin regarding the issue. What I don't understand is, if foomatic-db-compressed-ppds is to be installed, why doesn't the installer remove foomatic-db?
<astraljava> persia: Hmm... it's not apt, is it? It doesn't have conflict handling functionality?
<astraljava> Damn, eventhough I could boot into the system despite that error, I couldn't install anything from the install disc, guess too many essential packages got left out.
<persia> The problem is that the installer is telling apt to install both of those at the same time.
<persia> apt can only deal with conflicts when it gets told which one you really want.
<persia> Oh, very annoying.  Installing the metapacakge seems to work.
<ScottL> astraljava, were you installing ubuntu studio using the latest daily image?
<astraljava> ScottL: Yes, the nightly of 20100917.
<astraljava> I'll try again in a few days.
<astraljava> Not exactly sure whether a bug is required, but I suggested a fellow to file one on the mailing list, shouldn't hurt right? Besides, persia's musings were troubling... :)
<rlameiro> ScottL: puredata workflow added, not completed yet, but its almost done
<ScottL> rlameiro, super awesome!  thanks
<ScottL> persia, i'm beginning to find myself understanding your position on PPA's more and more
<ScottL> especially after talking ttoine via mailing list and reflecting upon it
<ScottL> it seems he would want us to stop making the ISO and focus on PPA's because he feels most people use the vanilla livecd
<ScottL> and then adds the appropriate applications for their use
<ScottL> it almost seems compulsive or obsessive to focus on PPA's so much
<ScottL> as far as i see, creating the ISO does not preclude him (or anyone else) from persuing the same installation vector
<ScottL> .
<ScottL> also, if we are spending the time to get an application into a PPA, why shouldn't we spend
<ScottL> a little more time and get the application into the official archives?
<ScottL> the answer is that we should get it into the archives
<ScottL> .
<ScottL> i think the PPA's can be extremely useful for something like the -rt kernel which will NOT be in the archives
<ScottL> but it seems to be the prime priority to many people :(
<ScottL> .
<ScottL> or testing, that is a good example of an appropriate (within the Ubuntu Studio framework) PPA
<ScottL> .
<ScottL> i realize i'm probably regurgitating everything you have said to me before :)
<ScottL> or, probably everything i regurgitated you have said to me before, that is probably more accurate
<rlameiro> ScottL: well, I think you and Persia are right. Not having an iso is not good thing. there are some stuff that can be easier on an ISO, and not everyone wants to be installing things from PPAs
<rlameiro> also if someone really likes ubuntu desktop, its only a step away from it :D sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop :D
<ScottL> that is very true
<ScottL> also, if someone is taking the time to package, then it would be really nice to spend a little more time* and get it into the archives for everyone to benefit from
<ScottL> time* = not necessarily direct time
<rlameiro> ScottL: i made it myself, i was having some troubles to read some text because of the dark theme in ubuntustudio, so i changed to the new ambiance theme of ubuntudesktop, and voila problem solved
<ScottL> some additional extra direct time packaging to follow convention *is* required
<ScottL> but keeping up with the package as it makes it's way into the archives is also time
<ScottL> perhaps "over time" is a better description
<rlameiro> yeap, but the best way is to make people packaging to debian
<rlameiro> that is most important
<rlameiro> if it get ins debian its so much easier then
<ScottL> yeah, that is very true :)
 * rlameiro installing Puredata on my ARM board...... fingers cross for audio to work :D
<ScottL> heh, good luck
<rlameiro> lol
<rlameiro> ScottL: do you know some graphical tool to upload files via ssh?
<rlameiro> well, i think nautilus will do :D
<ScottL> hi ronj
<ronj> hi
<ronj> just created LP #642405
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 642405 in Ubuntu Studio "package conflict (foomatic-db / foomatic-db-compressed-ppds) causes Ubuntu Studio installation to fail" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/642405
<ronj> ScottL, also updated the iso testing tracker: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/4529/223
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-19
<ScottL> good job ronj!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-12
<astraljava> Hey all. Sorry for my absence, I was pretty sick throughout the weekend, so had zero energy for anything else than lying on the couch and either napping or watching TV.
<astraljava> I'll get on with packaging and maintaining the seeds today.
<astraljava> There's tons of backlog to read, so in case there's something really urgent, please notify me, cause I might miss something.
<shnatsel> hi ScottL!
<shnatsel> ScottL: any news about live-build docs?
<quadrispro> persia, ScottL, will you attend UDS-P?
<falktx> us-menu it's in!
<astraljava> Is it? It's still version 0.14 on my system.
<ScottL> quadrispro, i believe i will attend UDS-P this year, i'm growing my hair and beard out for it as well
<ScottL> astraljava, i think the main thing was to get the menu and lightdm fixes pushed and update the seeds for the four or five packages i listed
<ScottL> quadrispro, my wife and my boss approved now i only have to talk to HR at my company about how i will account for my time away as i do not have enough vacation time left
<astraljava> ScottL: Yep, will do.
<ScottL> astraljava, glad you are feeling better :)
<ScottL> we had a bit of a wild fire scare around us this weekend, been a slightly stressful weekend
<ScottL> i didn't really get much done either
<jussi> ScottL: I can make him feel worse again if you like... :P
<quadrispro> ScottL, so we may have an opportunity to meet! i got the sponsorship from Canonical
<astraljava> Thanks, Scott. :)
<ScottL> quadrispro, i also receive sponsorship, although i did not apply
<ScottL> i would dearly like to know who nominated me so i could thank them
<ScottL> jussi, lol
<ScottL> heading to work, be back on in thirty minutes
<astraljava> ScottL: I thought the official derivate leads are automatically sponsored, though. At least used to, back in the day.
<quadrispro> ScottL, lol great! :)
<knome> astraljava, hmm. we need to takeover xubuntu then, and assign two leaders, you and mee (j/k) ;)
<astraljava> knome: How did you know?!
<astraljava> *oops*
<knome> hehe
<astraljava> Well, I'm positive I can get on the next one, if I can get nominations from both Scott and Charlie. Things may change, obviously, but I just couldn't go this time around.
<knome> do we already know where it is taking place?
<jussi> Nah, theyll announce it at this one iirc. 
<knome> okie
<jussi> "somehwere in Europe..."
<knome> yeah, i know THAT
<knome> i prefer EU > US
<knome> maybe i can get a nomination from charlie and scott, too, as well as jussi ;)
<jussi> knome: you get +1 for first time, then you need canonical peoples/project leads to love you. 
<knome> yeah.
<knome> i was approved the first time with not applying
 * knome whistles
<astraljava> falktx: Ahh... see what you mean, now. (re: us-menu)
<scott-work> i am very excited about attending UDS-P and my two main goals are to cultivate MOTU help for the -lowlatency kernel and play guitar with jono
<astraljava> scott-work: Need some salt in the wound to go with that butcher knife? *groans*
<scott-work> astraljava: which part?  playing guitar with jono?
<scott-work> i see that the menu fix was pushed apparently (at least from the bug report mail)
<scott-work> astraljava: i am still confused by your comment astraljava, even though i've continue to think about it
<astraljava> Well, overall, but now not meeting you, not jamming with you guys... :)
<astraljava> Just a joke, obviously, but I'd seriously have loved to go.
<knome> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PegkylrOtU0
<knome> i'd like to jam with THAT guy
<astraljava> Holy cr*p!! :)
<astraljava> What is he doing with the left foot every once in a while?
<knome> playing the bell?
<astraljava> Yeah, just couldn't hear it often.
<knome> yeah
<knome> i love kazoos btw
<knome> also, see the reply to the topmost comment
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> Not that surprised.
<knome> mm
<scott-work> astraljava: oh!  i understand now :)
<scott-work> knome: i'm sorry that i didn't find the svg for you this weekend, it was a slightly unsettling weekend with wild fires less than fifteen miles from our house
<scott-work> i should be able to do this tonight
<astraljava> scott-work: Holy cripes, didn't come closer, though?
<scott-work> astraljava: i thought you comment was kinda of an "ewww, you're going to play with jono" comment ;)
<scott-work> astraljava: yes, but it appears to be a minor flare up
<knome> scott-work, no problems
<astraljava> scott-work: No, are you not familiar with the saying "sprinkle salt on an open wound?"
<astraljava> scott-work: Well thank $deity.
<scott-work> there are two large-ish roads between us and a 17,000+ acre fire
<scott-work> the flare up on friday afternoon happened past one of those roads
<scott-work> we could see increasing smoke throughout the day saturday, was very nerve racking
<astraljava> Let's hope they'll stay far enough.
<astraljava> I bet.
<scott-work> but i believe they have put out that fire
<scott-work> but i was still slightly jumpy on sunday
<scott-work> this morning they are saying that the fire by us is 75% contained which is good news
<scott-work> but our state is still having the either the worst drought on record or the second worst
<scott-work> and fires are all over the state
<scott-work> some could argue (and probably have) that this is the "end times"
<astraljava> scott-work: Where was it that you lived again?
<astraljava> Texas?
<knome> astraljava, at your mom's :)
<astraljava> Hehe, good luck with that.
 * astraljava would feel soooo sorry for him
<knome> :)=
<astraljava> What, a smiley with a goatee?
<knome> mmh
<knome> bbl
<scott-work> astraljava:  very close to montgomery, texas
<astraljava> Right, yeah I have another friend in the northern part, and apparently the fires (and the drought) isn't that bad up there.
<scott-work> knome: i found this page with the ubuntu studio logo:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialOneiric
<scott-work> it's what cory would like to use currently
<scott-work> scroll down the page alomost to the end
<falktx> hey there
<scott-work> hi falktx 
<falktx> oops, forgot about that last thing, postinst...
<scott-work> which thing is that, falktx ?
<falktx> the lightdm script
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-13
 * craigs63 wondering what the "broken image" icon is on the top center of the http://ubuntustudio.org/ page ?
<craigs63> I just noticed it says "logo" in the top left corner, too.
<knome> ScottL, sure
<cyphermox> hi, can I bring your attention to bug 844027; I'm concerned that dropping gnome-bluetooth to suggests as proposed would have it drop from the ubuntustudio image; there may be a need to change the seed file
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 844027 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "Consider dropping gnome-bluetooth to suggests" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/844027
<cyphermox> AFAICT gnome-bluetooth isn't seeded explicitly, and instead is getting pulled by network-manager-gnome; I can fix this by sending a merge request, but I just want to make sure outside of any doubt that this is what we want :)
<scott-work> cyphermox:  i believe we chose to remove gnome-bluetooth from the seeds
<scott-work> cyphermox: the reason was that we felt bluetooth support was not a priority and may actually be a problem for low latency audio recordings
<scott-work> cyphermox: i presume that you are not in favour to dropping gnome-bluetooth to "suggests", however i will clarify our position in the bug report
<scott-work> does anybody think we need to include bluetooth support by default?
<jussi> I dont, if my opinion counts. DOnt see a major use case for it
<GTRsdk> probably should if it isn't too big
<scott-work> GTRsdk: some of the concern was that including bluetooth support could eat cpu cycles and affect latnecy or even cause xruns
<GTRsdk> scott-work: okay, then it makes sense to remove it
<scott-work> and jussi your opinion does count, quite a bit friend :)
<knome> 7msg jussi i can agree with you too if you buy me a beer
<knome> "oops"
<knome> :)
<jussi> knome: no.
<knome> :(
<knome> you already owe me a few!
<scott-work> lols
<jussi> knome: topyli's responsibility ;)
<scott-work> knome: does that logo (ubuntustudio_v3_logo.svg) work for you?  do you need more/something else?
<knome> scott-work, nope.
<knome> jussi, his responsibility maybe, but it's still you both, who owe me them :)
<cyphermox> scott-work: interesting, because gnome-bluetooth would still have been on, due to nm-applet
<cyphermox> scott-work: I'm not not in favor of dropping it to Suggests, just don't want to break things, hence why I also asked the debian NM maintainers about this
<scott-work> cyphermox:  which is something we were not aware of :)
<cyphermox> if they see no issue with it, I'll drop it and all will be well. if they're against, I'll probably drop it and cry a bit when comes time to merge at the beginning of next release
<cyphermox> :)
<scott-work> :)  thank you
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-14
<scott-work> good morning
<scott-work> astraljava: have you had time to get the latest updates pushed to the repos?
<scott-work> astraljava: if not, can i help get this done?  is there someone you usually bug about this?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-15
<ScottL> TheMuso, could you help me on a few points?
<ScottL> 1. can you help make sure some updates get pushed to the repos
<ScottL> 2. possibly explain what is involved in pushing to the repos
<ScottL> 3. suggest a method that i can acquire the ability to push to the repos?
<ScottL> any help would be appreciate :)
<ScottL> oh, on any of those points
<micahg> ScottL: for #3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Per-package_Uploaders
<micahg> the same rules apply for a packageset which ubuntustudio has
<micahg> ScottL: I'd suggest throwing any updates in the sponsorship queue
<micahg> !sponsoring | ScottL 
<micahg> ScottL: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<astraljava> ScottL: Sorry, I've been really swamped with 'real-life' issues lately. I'm gonna get things updated today, and bug the necessary people. Thanks for asking, and sorry I've been out of reach.
<ScottL> thanks micahg!  i will certainly read those today :)
<ScottL> astraljava, don't worry friend, these things happen, i just want to make sure we have redundancy for such things
<ScottL> perhaps it is my reading comprehension that is deficient, but i do not explicitly see how i request sponsorship for a fix
<ScottL> i see notes to updating the code, filing bugs, attaching your work, making debdiffs, et al
<ScottL> but between two different pages i did not see it say, "in order for sponsors to know your package needs sponsorship you need to do $ACTION
<astraljava> ScottL: Yes, redundancy is good. :)
<astraljava> ScottL: Are you talking about a  FFe, or just needing an upload of something that doesn't require it? In the former case, a bug needs to be filed, and ubuntu-sponsors team needs to be subscribed on it, but in the latter, only asking for uploading on #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-release should be sufficient.
<micahg> ScottL: usually, unless it's urgent, it's better to subscribe ubuntu-sponsors than poke someone in ubuntu-devel for upload (unless there's a patch pilot in the /topic, they're made to be poked)
<scott-work> astraljava and micahg: my internet at work was dodgy for a bit, checking logs
<scott-work> astraljava: i'm surprised that #ubuntu-motu wouldn't be the place to ask for uploading/sponsorship, doesn't make me right/others wrong, just presenting my own personal biased thinking :P
<scott-work> but i shall remember -release and -devel for uploading/sponsorship
<scott-work> micahg: but i see you are saying to just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors unless it's urgent, i shall do that then
<scott-work> thank you two :)
<micahg> scott-work: well, right before beta 2 freeze could be considered urgent, I hope to be piloting a little later
<astraljava> scott-work: I suppose -motu is as good a place as the aforementioned, but on the two former there's bound to be a higher percentage of people privileged enough to do the job requested.
<astraljava> scott-work: I made the modifications, and asked for the upload, but didn't find any traces of the nautilus-image-whatwasthat.
<astraljava> Will have to check again when new images have been spinned.
<astraljava> Oh, and ubuntustudio-menu is of version 0.15, with falktx's changes. I haven't tested the new images yet, but I will do that soon. Forgive me, but I forget, did we have the lightdm-greeter theme existing? (I will of course comb the backlog for it)
<falktx> astraljava: I haven't seen the package report for it, so I assume no
<astraljava> falktx: Just found the link to the tarball. Is the 0.1 the latest version of it?
<falktx> should be
<falktx> astraljava: link?
<astraljava> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme_0.1.tar.gz
<micahg> anything need to go in for beta 2?
<falktx> astraljava: beh, that's not on launchpad...
<falktx> micahg: ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme 
<falktx> oh, and ubuntustudio-icons
<micahg> those are both new packages and need FFes
<micahg> and I don't know if 20 minutes is enough for a new source audit
<falktx> micahg: *-icons is not new
<falktx> micahg: it's already packaged, and the code is already updated in the branch
<falktx> it just needs an update
<falktx> micahg: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-icon-theme/UbuntuStudio
<micahg> ah, it's called ubuntustudio-icon-theme
<falktx> micahg: can you update it?
<falktx> micahg: I already made a bug report for it - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-icon-theme/+bug/846483
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 846483 in ubuntustudio-icon-theme (Ubuntu) "icons do not play nice with XFCE" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<micahg> yes, but I believe you need a UIFe for it at this point
<micahg> oh, totally broke?
<falktx> micahg: this is a fix
 * falktx wonders how to get ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme into the repos...
<micahg> falktx: you forgot to close the bug in the changelog
<falktx> micahg: ah, yes, I created the bug after the package :)
<falktx> micahg: do I really need to close it?
<micahg> falktx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze_for_new_packages
<falktx> ok, I'll update the branch
<astraljava> falktx: It is now.
<astraljava> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+junk/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme
<micahg> falktx: can you jump into #ubuntu-release to discuss the icon update?
<astraljava> Oh crap, how did the +junk get in there?
<falktx> astraljava: thanks!
<astraljava> I didn't notice it.
<falktx> hehe, junk...
<falktx> what a cute name ubuntu gives for these things...
<astraljava> It's embarrassing, for so many reasons. :D
<falktx> astraljava: scott-work: do you have screenshots of *before* any icon changes? (ie, the normal behaviour?)
<astraljava> falktx: Is this what you're looking for? http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/(X)ubuntu_studio_cropped.png
<falktx> astraljava: no, that doesn't show the missing icons
 * falktx is trying to get the new icons into beta-2
<astraljava> falktx: You got 3 minutes. :D
<astraljava> Not really, that's just the freeze.
<falktx> I'm trying
<astraljava> Ok, which icons are we looking at?
<falktx> astraljava: they didn't even know US was going to change to XFCE!
<knome> lol
<knome> i need to see how photoshop will create asymmetric circular gradients
<knome> yay!
<astraljava> falktx: Who didn't?
<astraljava> knome: I'm sorry, I don't do hebrew.
<falktx> astraljava: the ubuntu dev guys
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> falktx: Well, they're too busy with the vanilla, they have no time to think about the derivates.
<micahg> falktx: I hope you've tested this :)
<astraljava> And quite frankly, it's just as well, as we're still heavily leaning on their power for the foundation etc.
<falktx> micahg: yes, I did
<astraljava> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme
<astraljava> micahg: I suppose this needs an FFe as well, right?
<falktx> micahg: what else can we do to make this happen?
<micahg> falktx: which one, I'm test building then uploading the icon package
<knome> ah great! the inner glow -effect does exactly what i want
<knome> WOOOOOHOOO
<falktx> micahg: the icon
<falktx> micahg: lightdm theme I think it's too late, right?
<micahg> well, you can file for the FFe
<falktx> micahg: but the lightdm thing is not 100% working right now, it's missing some postinst rules
<falktx> but now at least the code is up, thanks astraljava
<micahg> falktx: icons uploaded
<falktx> ah, nice!
<astraljava> falktx: Okay, then we have a problem. I included that in desktop already. I need to get that off quick, because I already asked for an upload of ubuntustudio-meta.
<falktx> astraljava: it's safe to use
<falktx> astraljava: but it will not "just work"
<micahg> I can't do meta, I don't have enough time ATM
<astraljava> Ahh... okay then, it can stay then.
<falktx> the package will install
<astraljava> micahg: No worries, I asked on -release.
<falktx> micahg: thanks for the icon upload! where can I find you if I need more help?
<micahg> I can do it later tonight though
<astraljava> micahg: Thanks a bunch for your efforts!
<micahg> falktx: I idle in here
<falktx> nice
<falktx> wow, this was fast... :)
<falktx> micahg: I'll mark the bug as fixed then
<micahg> falktx: LP should do that
<falktx> ah, yeah
<falktx> I'm new to all these stuff
<micahg> falktx: that's why I had you close it in the changelog (also since if anyone had a question why the upload was done this late, there's a reference)
<falktx> yep, got it
<astraljava> I like this sort of thing, at the office we're utilizing git+redmine for it, very similar to bzr+LP (the bug management side of it)
<scott-work> ach, sorry, been really busy at work today
<scott-work> it looks like we dont' need a screenshot for the icons now
<scott-work> micahg: do you think it is possible to get the lightdm package in before final release at all?  not just before B2?
<scott-work> going home, micahg i'll catch your response as ScottL
<astraljava> ScottL: I would think we'll get it in. After all, it's only affecting our distribution, nothing else depends on it.
<ScottL> and it is only a lightdem theme as well, shouldn't be too hard to check it
<falktx> hey
<falktx> ScottL: fixed menu and icons will be in beta!
<ScottL> yeah, thank you falktx !
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-16
<micahg> ScottL: both are possible
<charlie-tca> and all I wanted was alternate images that work... :(
<micahg> charlie-tca: that's harder :P
<charlie-tca> Yeah, that's what cjwatson said too
<micahg> astraljava: I can do a meta upload later if you need
 * micahg is stepping away for a little bit though
<ScottL> astraljava, micahg:  if we dont' update the meta it will be okay, the build log will just it can find that package and move on
<ScottL> furthermore, if we _do_ expect to get the package into the repos i would just leave it the seeds then
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-17
<shnatsel> scott-work: hello, any news from infinity about ISO building docs?
<scott-work> shnatsel:  i'm sorry, i haven't follow ask him yet
<scott-work> work has been rather busy lately
<scott-work> i'm atctually at work on Saturday morning at 6:30 am :(
<shnatsel> scott-work: ooh... :(
<scott-work> however, i will ask him
<shnatsel> scott-work: thanks!
<falktx> are the beta images out?
<falktx> ah, not yet
<holstein> i got myself one of those release timers :)
<holstein> 26 days to go !
<holstein> w00t!
<shnatsel> holstein: I got myself a totally-software RAM volume extension. w00t!
<holstein> shnatsel: ive already got 2 of them
 * holstein kidding...
<holstein> shnatsel: congrats :)
 * shnatsel is disappointed, wants to get the second one, too
<shnatsel> holstein: again, as with Glimpse, I'm just making use of stuff that's already there.
<shnatsel> holstein: I took http://weirdfellow.wordpress.com/2011/05/04/compressed-ram-with-zram/ and made it adapt to the amount of RAM and number of CPUs in the system.
<shnatsel> and packaged it for debian
<astraljava> ScottL: Scott (Kitterman) just announced on -release that for flavors, branding packages need not an FFe necessarily. Just the lead saying we need it in. So could you please announce that on necessary forums, please? (those would probably be -devel, -motu [and|or] -release)
<scott-work> absolutely :)
<scott-work> astraljava: trying
<scott-work> got scottk 's reply and acting accordingly
<scott-work> astraljava: i do worry, however, that we might be forced to change the package name at some point like when we created our plymouth theme
<scott-work> we had originally named the plyamoth thenme as "ubuntustudio-plymouth-theme" and it was forced to change to "plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio"
<scott-work> i don't think we should hold on pushing this into the repos at this point though ;)
<astraljava> Yes, name will be trivial to change later on, though it can be changed now as well.
<ScottL> astraljava, thank you for pushing the lightdm package issue :)
<astraljava> ScottL: Well, I figure, that's what I'm here for. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-18
<falktx> it seems like canonical is trying to remove dssi-vst!
<holstein> yeah?
<holstein> remove, or move to universe or whatever
<falktx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dssi-vst/+bug/770884
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 770884 in dssi-vst (Ubuntu Oneiric) "dssi-vst version 0.9.2-1ubuntu1 failed to build on amd64 with GCC-4.6/oneiric" [High,Won't fix]
<holstein> might be licensing related
<falktx> no
<falktx> it's a build failure
<holstein> whats all this?
<holstein> "it's nice that you built it. please could you attach a proper debdiff and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors?"
<falktx> what about it?
<holstein> falktx: are you doing that?
<falktx> holstein: maybe, it's for helping them
<holstein> yeah, i was just wondering how much hassle that is
<falktx> I think it's done
<falktx> let's see if it builds...
<falktx> sometimes canonical guys seem just stupid...
<holstein> its big, challenging to get things done in this situation
<falktx> holstein: well, how hard can this be:
<falktx> vsthost.cpp:19:23: fatal error: jack/jack.h: No such file or directory
<falktx> check control file, libjack-dev is not there!
<falktx> wow, hard....
<holstein> eh... lots of busy, overworked volunteers too
<holstein> and the studio stuff is *way* down the list
<falktx> it's sad
<falktx> ubuntu focusing on the dummy users...
<falktx> is it me, or the world is getting more stupid every day...?
<falktx> :(
<falktx> lol, the package build "just like that"
<falktx> https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1945922/+listing-archive-extra
<holstein> falktx: show 'em how its done :)
<falktx> yeah
<falktx> and I'll have the unity desktop killer someday....
<falktx> gwhahahwhah
<falktx> holstein: have you seen it?
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr025.png
<falktx> oh, not this one
<falktx> this one - http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr026.png
<holstein> :)
<dtchen> falktx: I'll look @ your debdiff for dsst* shortly
<falktx> hey
<falktx> nice, thanks
<falktx> dtchen: note that natty version is *ubuntu2, not *ubuntu1
<dtchen> ok
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-10
<len-dt> Wow our ISO must be really messed up...http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/ is totally empty, normally even for a failed build something shows.
<len-dt> Or the old one stays
<Hypnotoad> len-dt: Xubuntu has that issue in /current/ too.
<len-dt> ailo, in seeds 
<len-dt> "* package 
<len-dt> is a depend
<smartboyhw> len-dt: We now got 20120909 build to test:)
<len-dt>  * (package) recomends
<len-dt> Ya it showed up.
<len-dt> There will be bigger changes in todays... I hope.
<micahg> len-dt: so, cjwatson uploaded the new meta, the binaries need to go through NEW
<len-dt> Ok, I am not sure what that means
<len-dt> micahg, is there some action required to get them through NEW or is that automatic?
<micahg> reviewed when the archive admins get to it
<len-dt> Ok. I see they showed in #ubuntu-release
<ailo-w> len-dt: As you said, pretty simple (unless I'm missing something). One item done at least https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Seeds
<smartboyhw> ailo-w: Let me try that
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: This is just for reference. I don't manage seeds myself even. The important thing is to make sure we have the right list of applications
<ailo-w> And of course, some helpful docs on how to manage seeds, for developers who will be managing them
<smartboyhw> ailo-w: That IS interesting:)
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: I understand that you are eager to try things, but you will have to have patience if you really want to become an Ubuntu Studio developer
<smartboyhw> HAHAHA I said it looks interesting:)
<ailo-w> scott-work: sup Chief?
<smartboyhw> Good evening sir scott
<scott-work> hi ailo-w  and smartboyhw 
<scott-work> i'm sore from the gym but feeling good about a busy, busy weekend
<scott-work> how are you doing?
<smartboyhw> Fine I got busted
<ailo-w> scott-work: You started working out recently?
<smartboyhw> scott-work: How are your muscles
<ailo-w> Time to leave the office :P
<smartboyhw> Now we wait for ailo's cycle back to home:)
 * len-dt is off to work
 * smartboyhw is chatting in #ubuntuforums
<ailo> Only takes me about 10 min, but I don't come here right away :P
<smartboyhw> ;P
<scott-work> ailo: i did start "officially" working out, but there is more to the story
<scott-work> after i left the marine corps i was regularly exercising but also drinking too much
<scott-work> over time, the drinking increased further but the exercise reduced to nothing
<scott-work> i gained much weight, i was very close to 300 pounds at one point
<scott-work> i _am_ a big guy, 6'2", but 300 pounds is waaaay too much
<scott-work> around five years ago i quit drinking, haven't done it since then, and i started watching what i eat and exercising more
<scott-work> i have lost around 40 pounds since then, but i want more results
<scott-work> so, my goal is to really become healthier, both in regards to cardio but also the strength i used to have
<scott-work> and i feel that i need a gym with a program to accomplish this
<scott-work> the trainer i have met with already is quite more knowledgeable than i about the body, working out, etc
<scott-work> so while it bothers me that the gym/trainer is costing as much money as it is, i believe it will be eventually worth the cost and i plan to maximize my experience
<scott-work> interesting thing about the gym/trainer: i suffer from migraines almost monthly, trainer asks my about physical problems preventing proper training so i tell him all the crap i've done to my body
<scott-work> he says, let me look at your back/neck, starts poking around, then says, you have many, many knotted muscles in your upper back, i saw the way you sat, it was slightly hunched over like your being pulled down, do you have much stress? it looks like your knotted back/neck might be causing your migraines
<scott-work> they will certainly prevent you from exercising properly, let's fix that
<scott-work> i like that
<ailo> scott-work: Sounds great
<ailo> If there's anything I would recommend for anyone to do, ever, it's working out
<ailo> It can only improve things
<scott-work> ailo: last year i was taking tae-kwon-do and i thoroughly enjoyed it, i realized how much i missed physical activity, especially the hard, physical contact, since i had left the corps
<scott-work> one shouldn't undervalue the stress relieving aspect of hitting something (or someone) very, very hard :P
<scott-work> so i am looking forward to working out for the stress relieving aspects as well
<ailo> scott-work: I do a bit of boxing myself, but I find that just getting the body to work hard is what makes wonders
<ailo> I have a theory that some people just need to move a lot to be stable
<scott-work> hehe, i have read a bit of eastern philosophy/war/combat literature over the years and also learned about some of eastern medicine, not to any great depth, but i've read some
<scott-work> one of the things that is striking to me is how balance is strived towards
<scott-work> the fierce warrior, killed hundreds, but paints or arranges flowers
<scott-work> acupuncture that demonstrates a pin in the foot can relieve a migraine
<scott-work> a pin in the foot _at the right place_, mind you :P
<scott-work> i believe in balance as well, it just makes too much sense to not be right (plus there are thousands of years of eastern experience that backs it up)
<scott-work> so, i think it is likely that most people would be more stable with exercise
<keithl> Hello. I'm trying to build ffado from subversion to get rme ff 400 going. I'm on ubuntustudio 12, and the build fails when llooking for devicemanager.h. Any suggestions, either on getting ff400 to work or on the build issue?
<holstein> keithl: i would look for a ppa
<holstein> first place i would look is the KXstudio ppa's
<keithl> holstein: I'll give that a shot - they have a more up to date snapshot?
<holstein> keithl: not sure.. we will be "stuck" at the version 12.04 shipped with
<holstein> you can also download 12.10 beta and try that live
<keithl> holstein: Does that have the very latest version?
<holstein> keithl: i wouldnt know without looking
<holstein> keithl: you have a lot of variables to tackle
<holstein> you dont know what version of ffado is anywhere.. and you dont know that the latest will "fix" anything for you
<holstein> i try and use live CD's since they are an easy way to test without "breaking" my system
<keithl> That is what worries me :-). I've seen notes on the svn version supporting the ff interface, but is seems iffy
<keithl> holstein: I'll try the live CD and see if gets me anywhere
<keithl> holstein: Taking a different approach, do you use a firewire interface (pro level)?
<keithl> holstein: I might be able to get my client to purchase a different box
<holstein> keithl: RME is good gear... do you need firewire?
<holstein> i use a presonus firepod and find it quite acceptable quality
<holstein> the focusrite saphire 40 is nice fo the $$ as well
<ailo> keithl: On build issues, I would query at the #ffado channel. Missing headers usually means you need to install some dev packages
<keithl> holstein: I'll look those up. Any tricky config issuse? Needing something that "just works"
<keithl> ailo: Good idea - I just could not figure out which package i needed
<ailo> keithl: To get all the dependencies for ffado, do: sudo apt-get build-dep libffado2
<ailo> And whatever other packages involved
<holstein> the firepod works out of the box
<keithl> ailo: Hmm.I think I did build-dep libffado ( no 2)
<ailo> keithl: Why are you compiling? Is the device not supported until a newer release?
<ailo> I find compiling ffado is a bit of trouble. More than it's worth most of the time
<keithl> ailo: From what I can tell, the ff400 is not supported in the version of ffado I have by default (ubuntustudio 12)
<keithl> ailo: But I could just be missing something basic
<keithl> ailo: I am totally new to trying firewire - been doing all my dsp work using jack and faust
<ailo> keithl: I can't really tell, but it seems like it should work with the default ffado
<ailo> keithl: Try the live image for Ubuntu Studio 12.10 to try a newer one
<ailo> That should be a quick way to find out
<ailo> keithl: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.10/beta-1/
<holstein> yeah... ive just borked my current install so bad trying to get firewire to work in the past
<holstein> and it was just a JACK config in the end that was the issue
<ailo> keithl: Ah, did you set up realtime privilege?
<ailo> keithl: audio group?
<holstein> keithl: i suggest having the live 12.04 handy... but that in and issue gksudo qjackctl
<holstein> try the "firewire" driver, and see if it "just works"
<holstein> running temproarily as root can really help troubleshoot firewire
<ailo> Well, it only tells you if you're in audio group or not
<ailo> You can find that out with groups too
<ailo> Unless of course the device is so unusual, it's not listed in the udev rules
<ailo> In which case, you need to be root to run it, until you add a rule for it
<keithl> ailo: holstein Gving a try
<ailo> This seems to the rule for RME: 
<ailo> ATTR{vendor}=="0x000a35", ATTR{units}=="0x000a35:0x00000[12]", GROUP="audio", ENV{ID_FFADO}="1" # RME
<ailo> in /lib/udev/rules.d/60-ffado.rules
<holstein> RME is typically well supported
<ailo> on pci, yes
<keithl> ailo: Had seen a lot of refs to it not being supported, but perhaps they are old
<keithl> stupid question - how do I add/edit the rule?
<keithl> starting as root did not make a diff
<ailo> keithl: It should already be there. If you like, just double check the file above
<ailo> keithl: I recommend you try the Ubuntu Studio 12.10 beta image, I linked you to. It's the newest there is, and it's all set up for realtime audio/ firewire
<ailo> If that doesn't work, you might not have much luck compiling either
<keithl> Yup. The rme rule is in there
<ailo> keithl: starting jack as root doesn't need a rule though
<keithl> I'll try the beta and see if that works
<ailo> holstein: For ffado, there are only two RME devices, and neither are fully supported yet
<ailo> Er, no, scratch that
<ailo> It says full support for both
<ailo> hmm
<ailo> But it's pretty recent, anyway
<keithl> for the beta or for he current version?
<holstein> yeah, last time i checked, FW looked OK for RME
<ailo> It was still not fully supported in April though
<holstein> yup.. but 12.10 might have it
<holstein> and i would just run 12.10, and not worry about it
<holstein> install, and upgrade next month after it goes final
<ailo> keithl: Just try the live image first, and see if you can get your device working http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.10/beta-1/
<ailo> If it works, then think about installing
<keithl> ailo: holstein: That sounds like the best approach
<ailo> holstein: I guess kxstudio has the latest for 12.04?
<keithl> ailo: holstein: Thanks for all the help. I'm downloading now. I'll let you know if it works.
<keithl> Thanks again
<holstein> ailo: im not sure, but falk usually keeps that stuff up to date
<ailo> yea
<ailo> Tomorrow I'm running 25 laps around a lawn
<ailo> 10'000m. First time on a track
<holstein> wow! is that too make up for sitting around today?
<ailo> I'm folling around with athletics lately
<ailo> fooling*
<ailo> Gotta get some rest. see you guys later
<holstein> ailo: gn!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-11
<smartboyhw> ailo-w: Is there a package like ubuntustudio-full that installs ALL Ubuntu Studio packages when upgrading from Ubuntu desktop?
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: I don't believe so
<smartboyhw> Ow man
<ailo-w> Raining elephants and giraffes. I don't have an umbrella. This will get ugly
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i have mentioned before that i think we should consider including this functionality in -controls possibly, although i believe installing ubuntustudio-desktop might accomlish this as well
<smartboyhw> OH scott-work hi
<smartboyhw> Well alright:)
<micahg> scott-work: I don't believe that currently works in quantal (install desktop pulls in all tasks), a new metapackage could be added to the ubuntustudio-meta to accomplish this, kubuntu used to have a kubuntu-full, idk if they still do
<smartboyhw> That's why I have that idea from Kubuntu:)
<ailo-w> ooh, my backside is going to get wet bicycling in this weather. Going home now
<scott-work> micahg: thanks for pointing that out
<holstein> i like the idea of a seperate one... i used to install the *-desktop one to get the look and feel, but not all the packages
<smartboyhw> Oh/
<holstein> im also fine with *-desktop being the whole distro if you guys think that is more clear and easier
<ailo> I'd rather have a new meta for that
<ailo> The desktop is after all just one piece of the puzzle
<smartboyhw> Me too. A new meta
<holstein> ubuntustudio-full makes sense
<Hypnotoad> If I'm following, lubuntu has lubuntu-desktop and lubuntu-core
<holstein> Hypnotoad: lubuntu-core is the equivalent of *-full ?
<micahg> !info lubuntu-core
<ubottu> lubuntu-core (source: lubuntu-meta): Lubuntu Desktop environment - minimal installation. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.38 (precise), package size 3 kB, installed size 30 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; powerpc; ia64; sparc; lpia; armel; armhf)
<holstein> ah.. so its a "tiny" lubuntu version
<holstein> those guys work hard!
<smartboyhw> :)
<scott-work> i think lubuntu has a clear vision of what they want to accomplish with actionable goals. that helps alot
<holstein> yup.. it stays light too
<ailo> cd ..
<ailo> hmm
<smartboyhw> ..
<smartboyhw> ailo: Good email on the package building thing:)
<ailo> holstein: We don't have any thelonius type of reminder on out channels, right?
<ailo> smartboyhw: I think so too. The simpler, the better
<holstein> ailo: not that im aware of
<ailo> I'm running 25 times around a lawn today
<ailo> Just wish it'd stop raining
<smartboyhw> lol
<micahg> who's the docs person for Ubuntu Studio?
<holstein> smartboy has been helping a lot with that micahg 
<micahg> and he's not around
<holstein> micahg: i'll try and get something where it needs to go.. an email to the dev list or whatever
<micahg> well, I'm wondering if changes in xfce4-places-plugin will affect the US docs
<holstein> micahg: i think we should be looking at the xfce docs in general more closely
<holstein> taking what we can from there, and contributing as well
<ailo> I'm the documentation leaqd
<ailo> lead*
<ailo> micahg: ^
<ailo> docs on the ISO?
<holstein> ailo: you know about the xfce4-places-plugin ?
<holstein> i dont really use XFCE that often
<holstein> i just test our live iso's
<ailo> Me neither
<ailo> I also have no idea about ISO docs 
<ailo> I've only been working on docs on the wikis, and the web site
<holstein> in theory, we should be able to help xubuntu, and just copy that stuff... a lot of it
<ailo> We could inherit it, and add our own on top
<micahg> that would be my suggestion
<holstein> im sure the xubuntu folk would apprectiate that too
<ailo> To my knowledge, there isn't really any Ubuntu Studio docs on the ISO atm
<holstein> thats a great team as well
<ailo> I'll look into that
<holstein> ailo: wow... how did you get that from what asker said earlier?... thats why i pinged you though.. i figured you would know
<ailo> He said, controlling volume with the keyboard. I tried it, and saw this image
<ailo> Don't usually use the keyboard myself to do that
<ailo> len-dt: Did you add the menu item "Ubuntu Studio Information"?
<ailo> Hadn't had the chance to look at his yet
<ailo> The IRC client is working pretty well
<ailo> No pulseaudio applet?
<ailo> len-dt: I'm wondering if we should add a popup informing the user that an IRC client is opening, and connecting to the Ubuntu Studio user channel with the user name, and asking if that's ok or not
<ailo> We could add a simple python/GTK script for this
<ailo> I started something on that. bb tomorrow
<len-dt> ailo, there is a ubuntustudio submenu. It has 4 or 5 web pages as well as our IRC opening in xchat and the xfce4-about.
<len-dt> ailo, there is a ubuntustudio submenu. It has 4 or 5 web pages as well as our IRC opening in xchat and the xfce4-about.
<len-dt> Oops, I hit an up key instead of enter.
<len-dt> The web pages are a forum page, the wiki help page, the two list pages and the home page.
<len-dt> There is no local stuff on there yet though it would be easy to add. I don't know what xubuntu has for help. The last time I looked it seemed to point to the change logs for the programs listed... not very helpful. (the last version of xubuntu I had was 11.10 this may have changed)
<ailo> len-dt: I think it's great with all the links. But my initial feeling opening the IRC link was that the user should perhaps be warned about the automatic connection, before proceeding
<len-dt> I do know back when I was using KDE, their browser would take man:// kinds of urls. I don't know if there are other browsers that do so
<len-dt> How if IRC different than a browser in that?
<ailo> How is connecting with your ip and local username to a network you might not have any clue about different to opening a web page?
<len-dt> Not that it matters to me, if you come up with a wrapper script I can point the desktop file at, I am fine with that too.
<ailo> I would prefer that, as a user. It's not a big thing to add anyway
<ailo> I already started working on it
<len-dt> Ok, The command line for your script is at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio/view/head:/usr/share/ubuntustudio/applications/ubuntustudio-xchat.desktop
<len-dt> line 18 or so.
<ailo> Thanks
<len-dt> In your blurb, something about leaving a question and the app open long enough for someone to actually see it might be nice :-)
<ailo> It will be a gui window with info and the customary ok and cancel buttons
<len-dt> Ya, figured as much. Python then?
<ailo> Yea
<len-dt> \o/    Our new metas just got accepted. Tomorrow we should have photography and publishing apps.... and a bigger ISO
<knome> hehe
<len-dt> I think I will wait to do testing till then.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-12
<len-dt> ailo, re: thunar vs: nautilus. I seem to have had at least some crashes with using thunar only. Not always thunar itself though. tumblerd seems to have various problems. when plugging in a USB stick.. tumblerd seems not to like releasing the directory so the stick can be unmounted
<len-dt> ailo, Also I had a tumblerd crash just now while downloading a file direct to thunar.
<len-dt> drag and drop from the webpage (firefox) to thunar
<len-dt> it did not stop the download... so I am not sure how it was functioning when it died.
<len-dt> This is all 12.04, I will test it in 12.10 in the next few days
<ailo> len-dt: How about mounting devices with nautilus. Is that working as it should?
<ailo> Or, is there any functionality with Nautilus that isn't working
<smartboyhw> OK so what happened to the docs talk yesterday after  I left ailo?
<smartboyhw> What's ISO doc?
<smartboyhw> You guys mean writing an doc about the Ubuntu Studio ISO?
<smartboyhw> I don't think that is necessary...
<ailo> smartboyhw: I'm not sure yet, but it wasn't related to your publishing docs anyway
<smartboyhw> Yes ailo I will give it to you tmr finally got some time to work on it:)
<smartboyhw> BTW so ailo would you make that ubuntustudio-all package?:)
<ailo> smartboyhw: You don't need to hand over a perfect version, you know. It's even best if you don't work it out too much in advance, in case people have opinions
<smartboyhw> Well I don't have time in the past week....
<ailo> smartboyhw: We were only discussing a *-all package so far
<smartboyhw> Uh huh
<smartboyhw> Hi scott-work
<scott-work> morninging smartboyhw 
<scott-work> errr, that is "morning"
<smartboyhw> lol scott-work
<smartboyhw> Where's len-dt today?:)
<falktx> working I guess...
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> scott-work: PINg
<scott-work> smartboyhw: pong
<smartboyhw> I wonder: I normally saw studio-user* coming in to #ubuntustudio, but then they leave almost immediately. Why scott-work?
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i don't know, it is not a very active channel
<scott-work> question: is it not a very active channel because no one is there/talks or is no one there/talks because it is not a very active channel
<smartboyhw> Well holstein and ailo and me do help people asking questions there but yes it is not active:P
<len-dt> No new ISO today. :P
<len-dt> Something about python-twisted packages, but none of those are in our seeds. Can I take it the problem is with the vanilla parts we use?
<ailo> len-dt: Ardour depends on it
<ailo> apt-cache rdepends python-twisted
<knome> no new images for xubuntu either today, so it's probably a known problem
<len-dt> xubuntu-live is new
<knome> oh right, 12
<knome> meh
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-13
<smartboyhw> Now the build failures:(
<smartboyhw> Clearly python-twisted has a problem
<smartboyhw> micahg_: PM?
<smartboyhw> Or maybe not PM just ask it here:)
<smartboyhw> Strange astraljava and ailo and kubotu and ubuntulog got an alternate nick
<micahg> smartboyhw: what's your question?
<smartboyhw> micahg: About the build failures
<smartboyhw> A python thing, should be easy to fix right?
<micahg> it should be affecting the desktop images as well, they should fix it
<micahg> hrm, maybe not desktop, does affect server though
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> len-dt: PING
<len-dt> Hmm, still no ISO
<micahg> yeah, good news is twisted should be fixed for tomorrow's ISO
<len-dt> That will be nice. 
<len-dt> Do we have anyone testing with RME hdsp HW? It seems there are kernel problems above 3.1
<micahg> len-dt: oh, ubuntu-default-settings needs to be renamed to ubuntu-settings
<len-dt> I was just about to ask... thanks micahg 
<micahg> len-dt: there's a new ardour in Debian, if you want it, it'll need an FFe (you have a 2.8.12 svn snapshot ATM, 2.8.14 is in Debian)
<micahg> (requestsync -e ardour)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-14
<ailo-w> good morning Europe. Good night America
<ailo-w> And maybe HK hasn't come home from school yet?
<ailo-w> Would anyone like to volunteer for updating this page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UbuntuStudio
<smartboyhw> Let me finish my publishing one first:)
<ailo-w> It was last updated 2008. I'm sure there is something there that is worth
<smartboyhw> Well but then now balloons is planning to rewrite testcases in a standard form + distro special items
<smartboyhw> So ailo-w: I'm not sure we should update it
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: Who is balloons?
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: We need a special testcase for Ubuntu Studio
<smartboyhw> ailo-w: Oh you don't know. balloons is Nicholas Skaggs, the Canoncial QA guy responsible for community testing:)
<smartboyhw> Anyway I will contact him for special testcase writing
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: He's of course not responsible for Ubuntu Studio test cases
<smartboyhw> I know he's the coordinator ailo-w
<smartboyhw> For ALL flavors
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: What we need to consider is what we can use from generic test cases, such as those for Ubuntu and Xubuntu, whether we need to use those at all, and what we should add of what is specific to Ubuntu Studio
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: He's not responsible for what is specific for Ubuntu Studio
<ailo-w> We are
<smartboyhw> I know then who gonna write it?
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: Anyone here
<smartboyhw> Grrrrr
<ailo-w> astraljava1: You veru busy? I know you were wanting to handle Ubuntu Studio testing QA
<ailo-w> very*
<smartboyhw> ailo-w: He's busy for three weeks... I can't seem to find him either
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: I'm working on Ubuntu Studio developer docs, and will write about testing myself, something that I have not dealt with yet, unless someone else volunteers to do that part
<smartboyhw> OK then you write the testcase ailo-w:)
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: I'm doing all of this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperDocumentation. Just looking for some help on specific items
 * smartboyhw is looking at it
<smartboyhw> That is big work:)
<smartboyhw> ailo-w: So er what can I help then?
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: I was just suggesting test cases, since you were mostly interested about that
<smartboyhw> Oh alright:)
<ailo-w> Time for lunch. bbl
<smartboyhw> bbl
<smartboyhw> Oops that's quick
<smartboyhw> OK so ailo-w is back at work:)
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: Seems like I'm going in 5 min
<smartboyhw> That's quick ailo-w:)
<ailo-w> I have no choice. They are closing this place down
<smartboyhw> I miss scott-work
<ailo-w> For today
<smartboyhw> ailo-w: What do you mean by closing this place down?
<ailo-w> Everyone gets to go early
<smartboyhw> Ooh congrats:)
<smartboyhw> Wow faster than 5 min
<smartboyhw> yeah ailo is back
<Laney> hey
<Laney> I was trying to fix your seeds to reflect the ubuntu-default-settings â ubuntu-settings rename, but I can't push to the branch
<Laney> does someone here want to take care of that? :-)
<holstein> len-dt: ailo ping ^
<holstein> Laney: lemms see if i can find someone who can do that
<Laney> try micahg ;)
<holstein> i think len-dt can too
<holstein> scottL can, but he's not here right now
<ailo> I have yet not done any of that, so I don't even know if I as -dev am able
<ailo> len-dt would know
<ailo> Or Scott
<ailo> And micahg, of course
<Laney> you can update the seed branch if you are in -dev
<ailo> Laney: If you can give me a step by step, I can do it right away (I presume it's fairly simple)
<ailo> I have so far not dealt with bzr much at all
<Laney> in desktop in ubuntustudio.quantal, change ubuntu-default-settings to ubuntu-settings
<Laney> commit with an appropriate message ("desktop: renamed ubuntu-default-settings to ubuntu-settings, following rename in the archive")
<Laney> and push
<Laney> but don't worry if you aren't confident, feel free to leave it for someone else
<ailo> I'm confident, just not done it before. I had a look at seeds. Just a textfile
<Laney> make sure that `bzr whoami' is right
<Laney> and that you are logged in (bzr lp-login yourusername)
<ailo> Ok. I'll have a look
<ailo> Well, I'm on it. Just need to get names and login right :P
<len-dt> ailo, have you got it figgured out?
<ailo> len-dt: Yep
<ailo> len-dt: I had to do a bzr bind to get the adress right
<ailo> Just commited
<ailo> Used to git, so there's nothing after commit, right?
<len-dt> Ok, I haven't had much time. Thanks
<len-dt> I think micahg does the rest, he gets mail every time theres a seeds commit
<ailo> Well, now I know a few things to add to the dev docs about seeds :)
<len-dt> Seeds is different from all the other packages.
<Laney> I'll upload it
<Laney> thanks
<ailo> Laney: Thanks for the help
<len-dt> It's been my sons birthday today.. lots going on... and my first week back to work.
<ailo> len-dt: No worries. I would think things go pretty smoothly. Only thing I come to think of is that no one is giving much feesback on recent changes, which I think is important, so we get things done as good as possible
<ailo> len-dt: You've done some work on the menu, and seems like no one has really had the chance to look at that yetr
<len-dt> I was waiting for the ISO to have all the metas in it and then for them to actually build...
<ailo> Aha, not everything is there yet..
<len-dt> We should have a new ISO tomorrow.
 * micahg wonders what he does
<micahg> ah
<Laney> upload -meta, presumably
<len-dt> micahg, I think it has been done
 * micahg asked len-dt to update the seeds for that 
<len-dt> Ya, len had family to deal with :-)
<micahg> len-dt: ok :)
 * micahg can upload the meta as much as laney could
<Laney> i did it
<micahg> Laney: I need to talk to scottl about fixing the branches so core-dev can commit
 * micahg didn't see the -meta on -changes yet
<Laney> LP has it
<ailo> len-dt: Is there a way to have the "*-extra" item in the menu be at the top of the menu?
<len-dt> ailo, yes.
<len-dt> I would put it just below any subdirectories if I was going to move it.
<ailo> len-dt: Why not at the top of the menu?
<ailo> It's a function for adding more stuff to the menu. But, it'
<ailo> it's neither an application, or a menu
<len-dt> ailo, in the Audio production men (for example) the sub menus have their own extra...
<ailo> So, it should be at the top of the menu, preferably with a line under it, separating it from the other items in the menu
<len-dt> 6 of one half dozen of the other... ;-)
<len-dt> ailo, it was partly for that reason I didn't place it.
<ailo> len-dt: I was thinking about the submenus a bit. It striked me that there were a lot of extras. Something one is not used to seeing in a menu. Intuitively, I feel it's enough having the extras for each workflow, but I guess it doesn't hurt to keep it as is
<ailo> I mean, the user will have the possibility to do his/her own searches. 
<len-dt> The reason I broke it up is that the number of apps that can be added is limited by the length of the command line. So I thought that would give more room for adding things
<len-dt> in hind sight... I have not run out of room on any of them.
<len-dt> maybe it doesn't matter
<ailo> Well, that's my initial perception of it. I can safely say, I had a fresh first encounter with it
<len-dt> I'm not even sure if I chose the right apps
<ailo> I never looked at that actually. But, I did feel this could be helpful
<ailo> However, even one link could already do a lot
<ailo> One for each workflow felt like more than enough
<len-dt> That was why I did it a month ago so we could have more input. But it took some time to get it in. I think 13.04 might have something better thought out if some people try it.
<ailo> I think it's the right way to try things. Go the full way, so to speak. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-15
<smartboyhw> len-dt: You said we will have an ISO tmr. The answer I think is no since I received YET another build failure email:(
<smartboyhw> In yesterday I mean
<len-dt> smartboyhw, that would be today now. The failure yesterday has been fixed and the fix released so we should have a new ISO today. ailo fixed it.
<smartboyhw_> Yeah let me wait:)
<len-dt> ailo, some more thoughts on the xchat icon. It could be annoying to have a popup every time or do you have it set up so it can go straight through?
<smartboyhw> Now where do I download the ubuntu Studio menu code?
<smartboyhw> I wanna fix sth, even the Ubuntu Studio Information icon is missing...
<len-dt> smartboyhw, ? It is just a file.
<smartboyhw> Add a Ubuntu Studio icon to it please:)
<len-dt> The Studio info icon is not missing it is in a studio sub menu
<smartboyhw> Ooh!
<len-dt> We point at the website. It would be nice to have a better system, but that would take someone with the vision to do all the work required to get there.
<smartboyhw> ok
<len-dt> smartboyhw, what I would like is someone with a colorimeter to be able to test things we have.
<smartboyhw> colorimeter??!!?!?!?
<smartboyhw> What is a colorimeter?
<len-dt> We have added the software to use the device but have no way of knowing if we have it set up right to work "out of the box"
<smartboyhw> Not understand
<len-dt> a colorimeter is a device that goes on the display and allows the user to make the display output the same color as it thinks it is.
<len-dt> to calibrate the display in other words
<smartboyhw> Oh OK
<len-dt> This is very important for people doing graphics or photography
<smartboyhw> OK
<ailo> len-dt: Yeah, sounds like a good idea. A toggle for "Do not show this again"
<ailo> A file written in .config/ubuntustudio/irc_warning_off
<ailo> ~/.config..*
<ailo> I'll try to finisht that tomorrow
<ailo> this should then be apart of the same package as the links then
<len-dt> ailo, -settings
<len-dt> Hey all, New ISOs available. Small size increase... maybe we have all our metas now.
<len-dt> :P Our photo and publishing apps are still not there. The scroll bars are back in our slide show after having been gone for a month.
 * len-dt is goin' fishin' ... well messing about in boats anyway.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-16
<ailo> len-dt: If all went well, ppa:ailo.at/ustesting should soon include ubuntustudio-default-settings 0.38
<ailo> I'll upload it to the bzr branch, once I confirm it's fine and working
<ailo> Ah, I haven't added the toggle yet..
<agondaku> i want to install ubuntu studio in windows to use dual boot like ubuntu but its not the same like the ubuntu ?
<ailo> agondaku: #ubuntustudio is the channel for user questions
<ailo> agondaku: Could we continue there?
<ailo> agondaku: #ubuntustudio-user
<smartboyhw> len-dt: You here? Why did you change the ubiquity slideshow bug to TODO? Don't tell me the bug came back again:(
<ailo> Sorry
<smartboyhw> It is #ubuntustudio
<ailo> Ah, yeah
<ailo> :)
<smartboyhw> ;)
<ailo> smartboyhw: 15:59 < len-dt> :P Our photo and publishing apps are still not there. The scroll bars are back in our slide show after having been gone for a month.
<smartboyhw> Grrr that is bad in any means
<ailo> micahg: I was just doing some changes to the ubuntustudio-default-settings package. Am I right in assuming I don't have the rights to commit?
<ailo> micahg: I need to create my own branch, and push that, as described here? http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/fixing-a-bug.html#committing-the-fix
<ailo> len-dt: ^
<len-dt> you have the right to push directly
<len-dt> ailo, you did to seeds right?
<smartboyhw> ailo: If you are  in the dev team you can push directly...
<ailo> len-dt: This is not the seeds
<ailo> len-dt: I was not getting the same results as when working with the seeds
<ailo> smartboyhw: Yes, thank you. I am aware that me being a dev does grant me some rights
<smartboyhw> ailo: LOL
<smartboyhw> You deserve it anyway
<holstein> the phrasing of questions sometimes gets me going
<holstein> "why doesnt ubuntustudio support dual monitors?"
<holstein> how about.. "does ubuntustudio support dual montitors?"
<holstein> or, how do i set up dual monitors?
<smartboyhw> :)
<ailo> len-dt: Let me recheck the lp adress..
<len-dt> ailo, there is a problem in the seeds still. The photography and publishing metas are created but not shipped for some reason.
<len-dt> I need to look at that.
<smartboyhw> len-dt: Add oil! (Add oil in HK = give support)
<ailo> len-dt: I was trying to commit to the ubuntu bzr repo
<len-dt> I commit to my branch then push
<smartboyhw> ailo: it should be easy
<len-dt> That is I branch to my machine, make changes, commit to my machine then push
<smartboyhw> If there are new files you bzr add or sth?
<smartboyhw> THen commit, then push:)
<len-dt> Once I have the branch on my machine, I do a pull if I think there may be other changes sinse I last did something
<ailo> smartboyhw: I only started using bzr yesterday
<smartboyhw> ailo: What the..........I use bzr at least twice....
<len-dt> The learning curve
<smartboyhw> But ailo, welcome to bzr!!!
<ailo> Ok, I wasn't branching
<smartboyhw> ailo: Oh you didn't branch!?
<len-dt> ailo, the thing I found confusing is that you do the branch in a directory you create, then do any push or pull one directory up.
<len-dt> ailo, Why does jackd (not jackdbus) need X11 to start?
<ailo> len-dt: No idea. Sounds weird to me
<len-dt> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=146788
<len-dt> I have put together a very light system
<len-dt> no X, only 191M ram and small drive
<ailo> len-dt: Let me just double check a couple of things..
<len-dt> I want to play with netjack and nama etc.
<ailo> len-dt: bzr init-repo ubuntustudio-default-settings
<len-dt> I have never used that command :)
<ailo> And inside the created dir, bzr branch <?> <custom_name>
<ailo> len-dt: So, what's your workflow then?
<smartboyhw> ailo: I used the init-repo
<len-dt> I have ~/software/studio/settings/
<len-dt> then I go there do bzr branch and it creates a ubuntustudio dir in that with the branch in it.
<smartboyhw> I will do bzr branch lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio in ~ for me
<len-dt> It could probably be done simpler easier though
<len-dt> once I make the changes I do a bzr add from the dir below debian
<len-dt> then a bzr commit
<len-dt>  then a bzr push
<ailo> len-dt: No dch -i ?
<ailo> Updating the changelog..
<len-dt> dch?
<ailo> len-dt: It's how you normally update the changelog for debian packages
<len-dt> That sounds easier than editing the changelog file.
<smartboyhw> lol
<ailo> len-dt: Not really. It's the same things basically
<smartboyhw> Found something interesting
<smartboyhw> Someone misspelt the ubuntustudio-forum.desktop
<smartboyhw> it is ubuntustudio-formum.desktop lol
<len-dt> That would be me...
<smartboyhw> len-dt: LOL
<ailo> len-dt: So, you edit the changelog to have the new version, and change UNRELEASED to quantal, before committing?
<smartboyhw> len-dt: So would you change the misspelt file name? LOL
<ailo> I can do that
<smartboyhw> ailo: You mean changing the filename or the changelog??
<ailo> changing the misspelling
<smartboyhw> Ok please do then:)
<micahg> ailo: no, leave the changelog  UNRELEASED until it's ready to be uploaded
<ailo> micahg: ok
<len-dt> micahg, is there a reason the two new metas are not included in the ISO?
<ailo> len-dt: If I change the name of the desktop starter, I guess a meny entry needs to be changed too?
<len-dt> Yes
<smartboyhw> ailo: Think so
<ailo> smartboyhw: I'm talking with len. Please..
<ailo> len-dt: So, is that in the same package?
<len-dt> Yes
<len-dt> it is in /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus
<ailo> len-dt: etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus/xfce-applications.menu
<smartboyhw> I actually changed it already
<smartboyhw> lol;)
<smartboyhw> len-dt and ailo: I mean I changed the xfce-applications.menu and the filename lol
<len-dt> smartboyhw, I am not sure ailo is talking about my spelling mistake...
<smartboyhw> len-dt: I think he is
<smartboyhw> Since the spelling mistake can be found there also
<micahg> len-dt: hrm, they should be
<len-dt> Maybe it needs one more day micahg , 
<smartboyhw> len-dt: In xfce-applications.menu line 378
<smartboyhw> <Filename>ubuntustudio-forum.desktop</Filename>
<smartboyhw> So is it the spelling mistake or am I wrong?
<len-dt> smartboyhw, that is not important right now.
<smartboyhw> lol
<micahg> len-dt: no, if the ISO succeeds and the new metas aren't there, something's wrong
<len-dt> the link works and the spelling is not visible to the user.
<len-dt> micahg, I can add them to desktop, but graphics is not and it works.
<micahg> no, you shouldn't need to do that
<smartboyhw> More important is that we need to add the new metas in and the scrollbars fixed:)
<ailo> Ok, made the push
<smartboyhw> Good ailo:)
<ailo> smartboyhw: How is your work going on documentation?
<smartboyhw> Grrr I am too busy on school these days don't have time
<smartboyhw> What is the deadline excuse me?
<smartboyhw> *when is the deadline excuse me ailo?
<ailo> smartboyhw: No deadline. But, since you seem to have time to be in here, it just makes sense that you would have time to do some actual work. I don't mind you being here, and it's just good for you to learn stuff. If you really do want to learn, however, I recommend you focus on work, not chat
 * smartboyhw opens LibreOffice Writer to work on it
<ailo> As a 14 year old, I know it's not easy to have the patience
<ailo> But, you don't need to do more than you feel like
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> Now wait guys if I install ubuntustudio-publishing it should have scribus pre-installed right?
<smartboyhw> Please someone do tell me:)
<len-dt> Yes
<len-dt> I don't know that it would work with 12.04
<len-dt> but it does with 12.10
<len-dt> I tried it last night.
<smartboyhw> OK thanks then:)
<len-dt> ailo BTW, generic does not seem to add any battery life over lowlatency
<len-dt> My battery just has half the capacity as when I bought it.
<smartboyhw> Oh!
<micahg> len-dt: actually, quantal is a little harder on the battery than preccise
<knome> i hope "little harder" isn't half :P
<smartboyhw> ;P
<len-dt> micahg, I was talking about precise actually.
<len-dt> What I noticed is that the battery info says I have less than half the watthours from new
<ailo> len-dt: Do you test the packages before pushing?
<ailo> Or, the package in question
<ailo> I've been using the ppa, and also bzr builddeb to create a deb package. 
<ailo> Problem with ppa is that UNRELEASED is not acceptable, so it needs to be edited
<ailo> len-dt: I think it would be wise to have some sort of routine for that anyway. I'm adding something to the dev docs about this
<ailo> len-dt: How did you test the battery life, btw?
<ailo> len-dt: I really think we should move the extra items in the menu. It's almost by chance that I see them
<ailo> And putting them between menus doesn't seem logical. I can't think of any better place than at the top of each workflow menu, and clearly separated from applications
<ailo> len-dt: I'd like to work on some of the other menus (besides audio), to have them follow the same logic with submenus. Audacity needs to be in a menu that explains it's not a video application.
<ailo> Other than that, I feel the menu is really nice
<ailo> len-dt: We could use the ubuntu studio icon for the extras, or a version of it
<len-dt> ailo, I can move the icons to the top of the menus. I used the package icon because it tells the user it installs things (I hope)
<len-dt> The US icon doesn't really do that
<len-dt> ailo, in the battery icon in systray there is an info selection. It has design capacity and real capacity.
<ailo> len-dt: Ok, I didn't know if you had put any thought on the icon. Didn't realize it was the package icon. 
<len-dt> When I first got the Netbook I put ubuntunetbook on it and got about 3.5 hours out of it. Now I get 1.5 hours out of it.
 * len-dt thinks maybe a bit closer to 1.75 hours
<len-dt> But it does follow pretty close what the batter info says.
<len-dt> ubuntu netbook was the last LTS so that gives an idea how old the battery is.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-09
<smartboyhw> Hello ttoine 
<ttoine> hello smartboyhw 
<ttoine> what time is it in your timezone ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, 16:42
<ttoine> just 6 hours more than in France. I would have expected more
<ttoine> ;-)
<zequence> smartboyhw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Documentation
<smartboyhw> zequence, loading the page
<zequence> there will never be a manual on writing documentation. Just a list of stuff we need to maintain
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK. BTW, what happened to the YouTube channel?
<smartboyhw> I thought you said that it is going to be filled with videos
<zequence> You mean why no one is making videos?
<zequence> Ask "no one"
<smartboyhw> zequence, -.-
<ttoine> zequence, ;-)
<ttoine> zequence, what kind of video would you like to push ?
<ttoine> and don't forget, you can still like videos from libre graphic world or other tutorials on youtube about freesoftware
<ttoine> this can be a start, as our follower will see that we add third party video to our timeline
<zequence> ttoine: We've been working on a format for the videos. Even artwork. Someone just needs to start making them
<zequence> 14.04 is a good goal for that too. At the end of the development phase, when we also have the correct desktop artwork for it
<zequence> However, it would be good to do a few now just to get a feeling for it, and learn what the important things are
<zequence> I'm going to redo our planning today
<zequence> new structure for blueprints
<smartboyhw> zequence, re-do?
<smartboyhw> (Oh no, not another re-structuring-.-)
<zequence> smartboyhw: YOu know very well that I was going to do that
<zequence> smartboyhw: Find something to do, if you have nothing to do
<zequence> instead of commenting on other peoples work
 * smartboyhw is busy packaging stuff here now, so he got plenty to do-.-
<zequence> good. focus on that then
<OvenWerks> zequence: did you want my list of stuff to work on for LTS then?
<OvenWerks> And would you like it sent to the list or to you?
<OvenWerks> I think structure is something we are still learning and something that will change as we see need for new direction.
<OvenWerks> !paste
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'm just going to set up blueprints for 14.04. Migrate stuff that is already written down, and then leave it to each and everyone to handle workitems by themselves
<zequence> OvenWerks: One blueprint for each project
<zequence> The blueprints will be connected to the corresponding launchpad project, and its source
<zequence> ..if there is one
<zequence> All packages should belong to a project in launchpad
<zequence> It's going to be simpler in some ways from now on
<zequence> I think everyone will agree on it, once it's done. Hard to explain the details, so I'll just do it first
<OvenWerks> zequence: ok, I started a list a week ago or so because I had some ideas and didn't want to forget. I'll  map them over once you are done.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-10
<cub> Hello people, just read the logs from yesterday and saw the short discussion about the Youtube channel. I have started to make some guidelines for tutorials to the channel but wanted to get a unified look of them.
<cub> I made a suggestion for intro pages and outro page, which I sent to madeinkobaia and zequence for review. But as we know madeinkobaia has been quite busy. But I still have it on my to-do list. So I suppose I
<cub> am the "no one" referred to yesterday. ;)
<cub> Unfortunately I've been very busy the last few weeks and now I'm clubbed down with an illness. I'll be back in shape shortly though.
<zequence> cub. (in case you read the backlogs) - check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Documentation and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/YoutubeVideoFormat
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-11
<cub> Hi zequence, about the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/YoutubeVideoFormat is it ok to edit to add things? Or do you want to keep ownership of the page?
<zequence> cub: You are free to edit any page in the wiki. Or, at least add to them. Always good to ask the author first of course, if wanting to change something radically
<smartboyhw> zequence, I think we need to contact the author of the book to correct these mistakes-.-
<zequence> smartboyhw: you are free to do so
<zequence> I won't bother
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> OvenWerks: ubuntustudio-installer branch is not a part of its corresponding, and newly created, project
<zequence> OvenWerks: https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-installer
<zequence> OvenWerks: I meant to write "now", not "not"
<zequence> LP decided it was lunch time for me, at 12.00
<zequence> ..as it stopped working at that time, more or less exactly
<smartboyhw> LP not working? 0.0
<knome> smartboyhw, you broke it.
<smartboyhw> knome, no I didn't
 * smartboyhw hasn't worked on any code in LP
<knome> no, you broke it
<smartboyhw> knome, may I sincerely ask why?
<knome> you asked too many questions about it, now it's depressed
<zequence> OvenWerks: And ubuntustudio-menu is now moved to https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-menu
<smartboyhw> knome, did I?
<smartboyhw> Throw me the statistics
<zequence> OvenWerks: https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-default-settings. All of the branches are now called lp:<project-name>, so for this: lp:ubuntustudio-default-settings. 
<zequence> OvenWerks: All of the ones I've changed, that is
<zequence> I'll announce these changes later for everyone else too
<zequence> Just making sure Len finds his branches, since he's currently working on some of them
<smartboyhw> zequence, nice job
 * smartboyhw thinks of what skills to endorse zequence -.-
<zequence> smartboyhw: puppet mastery
<smartboyhw> zequence, LOL
<smartboyhw> zequence, I'm creating a Ubuntu Studio group on LinkedIn
<zequence> smartboyhw: Better let me do that
<smartboyhw> zequence, sure, but add me in:)
<zequence> smartboyhw: I was thinking of doing something like that later
<zequence> of course
<OvenWerks> zequence: Thank you.
<OvenWerks> I will have to look up the address to push to :)
<OvenWerks> zequence: I am noticing That -settings has links to the packages on the overview page, but none of the rest do. Is that something that will happen as new versions are uploaded? or is there a way to link what is already done?
<zequence> OvenWerks: Not sure how that works yet
<zequence> OvenWerks: blueprints will be tied to the project from now on too
<smartboyhw> zequence, http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20071105#review
<smartboyhw> So long ago
<zequence> I started using 8.04
<zequence> I tried my first Linux distro when you were 3 years old
<zequence> Different proportions for you
<smartboyhw> zequence, what was it? That isn't Ubuntu I think. Debian?
<zequence> Red Hat
<smartboyhw> zequence, ah
<madeinkobaia> Hi all : )
<OvenWerks> hello
<madeinkobaia> Hi OvenWerks
<madeinkobaia> OvenWerks: I noticed your post on the dev-list about the info menu icon. I think it is too short now for the 13.10 but it will be add to the 14.04 "to do" list.
<OvenWerks> No problem.
<OvenWerks> I am mostly thinking lts now anyway.
<madeinkobaia> Me too.
<madeinkobaia> As I said here, I will make a brand new icon set for the 14.04 ((hope I will have enough time !).
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'll sort out the icons for menu at the beginning of next week. They are more or less done, and ready to be uploaded
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I think the most crucial thing would be to reinvent our logo, and stuff around that. For icons, folders is already enough, but that is of course up to you.
<madeinkobaia> zequence: You mean for the 14.04 ?
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Yes, of course
<madeinkobaia> zequence: Global : I think the logo (=ubs COF) is good, maybe we could enhance it. The global branding could be improved. For the 14.04, I would like to make a huge work on the graphics and interface, but we will plans and talk about that in detail.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: If possible, lets try to do as much work on that before December this year
<zequence> With artwork, its so hard to do last minute changes
<zequence> madeinkobaia: We should think about a new set of colors. All of that which we have talked about before
<madeinkobaia> zequence: For sure, your truth. I already made the drafts and have a plenty of ideas on interface. In one month +- I will sent you propositions.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Sounds great :)
<madeinkobaia> zequence: :)
<madeinkobaia> madeinkobaia: For the moment I studying on how making themes on Gnome 3.x and XFCE. 
<madeinkobaia> zequence: I speak to myself...lol
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Ah, yes. Takes a bit of time just to learn that stuff
<zequence> I've only done some editing in the past. I rarerly like any of the default themes, and do some color changes mostly
<madeinkobaia> Indeed. Doin' a theme is not complicated by himself, the problem is that there is not a lot of good documentation about that. Mainly since Gnome had move to 3.x. (don't know yet about XFCE).
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'm going on a mini vacation to the mountains. Not sure if there will be internet connection there
<zequence> I'm leaving in 9h, and will be back on Monday
<zequence> In case someone wonders if I was hit by a bus or something
<OvenWerks> zequence: no problem ... enjoy yourself and don't even look for a connection.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Seems I'll have internet, but no computer. But I'll be in touch on my phone
<zequence> kernel sru just started again..
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-12
<xequence> Good morning
<xequence> smartboyhw: I was just about to create a LP project for  linux-rt and saw you already created one. Could you please transfer ownership to ubuntustudio-core. I would like to integrate that project into ubuntustudio-project
<xequence> We don't really require a special linux-rt team. And the source will not be kept in a bzr branch anyway. 
<xequence> I'll give you access to the hit trees once that becomes relevant
<xequence> git*
<xequence> currently I'm the only one who can sign the packages
<xequence> And I will do that for linux-rt as well. 
<xequence> smartboyhw I have a message for you in the backlog :)
<smartboyhw> xequence, what?
 * smartboyhw hasn't checked the backlog yet
<xequence> Evidently not
<smartboyhw> xequence, sure, transferring
<xequence> smartboyhw: Thanks. There's no absolute reason for linux-rt to be apart of the Ubuntu Studio project, but for now it serves a purpose
<smartboyhw> xequence, you now have control over the project
<xequence> smartboyhw Thanks again
<smartboyhw> xequence, tell me when you can review my problem in the -rt branch
<smartboyhw> I currently am busy packaging in Kubuntu-.-
<xequence> Someone soon. Doing planning and reorganization right now. Going to get more serious at getting more developers involved. 
<smartboyhw> xequence, sure
<knome> smartboyhw, re: yesterday, where did your sense of humour disappear?
<smartboyhw> knome, what?
<knome> smartboyhw, "breaking launchpad" ?
<smartboyhw> knome, in here.
<knome> try to show it more..
<xequence> LP fun using Android
<xequence> My train was one hour late. Made me miss my connection. Swedish accuracy...
<smartboyhw> xequence, when I went to Britain, I saw a schedule train never arrived:P
<xequence> One hour is just a minor delay here
<knome> come to finland in the winter and scheduled trains not arriving is the norm :P
<xequence> smartboyhw: must have been the one Harry Potter tales to school
<smartboyhw> xequence, not that
<knome> (not really, but somehow the snow surprises the train company *every* winter)
<xequence> It disappeared in the middle somewhere
<smartboyhw> We went to Windsor Castle the final day. At the Windsor and Eton Central Station I saw a train supposed to arrive then depart at 14:00. It never arrived. The next scheduled train, 14:20, arrived punctually. The train board status just showed it as "delayed".
<xequence> knome: that is surprising. Since you at least have snow*every*year
<smartboyhw> And one day when we went into Central London using train, ours was 6 minutes late (only), and the train decided to skip stations-.-
<knome> xequence, exactly...
<smartboyhw> Fortunately for us, we alight at the destination (so not a problem for us)
<knome> smartboyhw, do you imagine how it would affect the whole system in london if trains decided to keep stopping even if they are late? :)
<smartboyhw> knome, I do:P
<smartboyhw> CATASTROPHIC
<knome> you know the geography of finland makes all the long-distance trains be linear, A->B routes?
<knome> (helsinki is in the south, every train wants to go there)
<knome> so the train usually leave helsinki in time...
<knome> but oh my, when i traveled a lot more with trains in 2005, they were mostly late at (my) destination because they had problems shutting the doors
<smartboyhw> knome, heh heh 
<knome> that almost diminished the speed difference of the trains
<knome> i mean, i took faster trains, because... you get to your destination faster
<knome> but nope, the regular trains didn't have door problems...
<smartboyhw> knome, so great of Western engineering;p
<knome> italian...
<smartboyhw> knome, heh
<xequence> .We have Italian trams ; )
<smartboyhw> xequence, heh heh
<xequence> The company went bankrupt before delivering all if the trams
<smartboyhw> xequence, -.-
<xequence>  They are not bad during summer time. Italians know the value of air conditioning
<xequence> We have a few warm days, yearly. One or two. 
<smartboyhw> Welcome cub 
<cub> thank you thank you
<cub> how's everything going along?
 * cub has read the logs though
<smartboyhw> cub, great. 
<cub> how's the schedule for the next beta?
<smartboyhw> cub, 26/Sep I think
<cub> alright
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, has the updates for ubuntustudio-default-settings upgrade bugs (13.04 -> 13.10) landed in the archive?
<cub> smartboyhw, while testing Orca I have discovered an issue with the dependencies. It needs to have speech-dispather installed to work but that is not listed as a dependency when installing Orca.
<xequence> cub: I want referring to you at all before. I was getting to the person nobody.  Like the user nobody
<smartboyhw> LOL
<smartboyhw> cub, huh
<cub> hehe ok xequence 
<smartboyhw> cub, fix it?
<smartboyhw> Should be simple enough
<cub> smartboyhw, that's the thing. Since it's FF can we add another package? Or do we tweak the orca package? Or should I chase upstream?
<smartboyhw> cub, is speech-dispather in Ubuntu (or Debian)?
<cub> yes
<xequence> Sorry for the creative spelling. That's my Android trying to have AI
<smartboyhw> cub, that's no need an FF
<smartboyhw> (FFe)
<cub>  I just did a apt-get install speech-dispather and it worked.
<smartboyhw> It's fixing bugs
<smartboyhw> cub, can you report a bug on that?
<smartboyhw> So either you or me or OvenWerks or zequence can fix that
<cub> weird though that orca doesn't list speech-dispatcher as a dependency in the first place
<cub> smartboyhw yup will do.
<smartboyhw> cub, I would rather want you to learn the process of fixing it:)
<cub> sure, I was just uncertain if we should fix it for us or the right way to go was to get the Orca devel team to fix it upstream. The mostly build for gnome though so it could be a xfce issue
<smartboyhw> cub, tell Orca to document it as a dep. But we need to fix it in Ubuntu.
<cub> cool
<xequence> Fix it for us first.
<xequence> Then file a big to Debian
<smartboyhw> big lol
<xequence> Or find who P
<xequence> Packages it and complain on their mail list
<smartboyhw> Most likely it will be the Debian GNOME maintainers
<cub> It doesn't work that well after installation though. But as long as it will get the people through the installation process they can tweak everything after they are up and running.
<smartboyhw> If otherwise, jsut directly ping the packager.
<cub> I'll try the orca mailing list
<smartboyhw> cub, may us fix it in Ubuntu (and maybe Debian) first
<smartboyhw> :P
<cub> yeah
<cub> coudl be that the recommendation will be that one should run gnome instead of xfce once installed to get better accessibility.
<smartboyhw> cub, technically, yes
<cub> or no X at all
<smartboyhw> xequential, how many xequen- accounts have you registered?! :P
<xequential> Accidentally shut off the client
<smartboyhw> xequential, OK
<xequential> cub: the orca mail list is just for the application itself. This is a packaging problem. If the package is done in Debian, and them imported, you need to turn to a Debian mail list
<xequential> cub: check the source for info. Get it with: pull-lp-source orca
<xequential> cub: look through the files in the Debian folder. 
<smartboyhw> xequential, it's packaged in Ubuntu directly it seems
<xequential> Yeah? 
<smartboyhw> Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
<smartboyhw> xequential, so not imported from Debian
<smartboyhw> Good time for cub to fix:P
<xequential> Then it's a Ubuntu bug - or it may be intentional to
 * smartboyhw looks at the code
<smartboyhw> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/gnome-orca/saucy/view/head:/debian/README.Debian
<smartboyhw> Weird
<xequential> Discuss it on a proper mail list. Either ubuntu-devel-discuss our something more specific
<smartboyhw> (Why should people run the command first when they don't read the file?)
<cub> I will follow up on the packaging
<smartboyhw> cub, awesome
<ttoine> hello
<madeinkobaia> ttoine: Hi
<ttoine> hey madeinkobaia. What would you like to tell me last time ?
<madeinkobaia> ttoine: I would like to know if its possible to customize our spreadshirt gallery, by adding a banner, play with colors, etc.
<ttoine> hum
<ttoine> not really
<ttoine> I used a dark background theme because of our logo, that is not visible on white background
<ttoine> that's all
<madeinkobaia> ttoine: Ok, nevermind.
<ttoine> zequence already asked me, and we can change only a few things, and a few themes are available. on ly one dark
<madeinkobaia> ttoine: ok
<madeinkobaia> ttoine: Otherwise, how are the sales and feedbacks about our webshop ?
<ttoine> low ;-)
<madeinkobaia> :(
<smartboyhw> :(
<smartboyhw> I contacted OMG! Ubuntu to promote about our shop, but they never replied
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: Was a good idea.
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, never replied is not a good idea
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: I mean it was a good idea to contact them anyway ;) 
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, ;)
<ttoine> if we want them to speak about us, we should send us one
<ttoine> smartboyhw, you should ping libregraphicworld
<smartboyhw> ttoine, maybe you can ping them?
<ttoine> I will
<ttoine> not today, however
<madeinkobaia> Also I will make new models when I have the time. Maybe some stuffs more "funky" or...artistic :P
<ttoine> madeinkobaia, could you create a sticker ?
<ttoine> http://www.unixstickers.com/
<ttoine> I would like us to be here
<knome> basically they only need the ubuntu studio logo
<knome> they'll turn that into a sticker, as they did with xubuntu
<madeinkobaia> Yep, I used to plan that too :) Thanks for the link I didn't knew that site.
<madeinkobaia> Their stickers are really basic indeed.
<cub> I'd love some stickers.
<smartboyhw> STICKERS!
<cub> knome, have you ordered some xubuntu sticker? And did you get any hassle with customs since it's outside of the EU?
<knome> didn't order any yet
<madeinkobaia> For put it on a laptop could be great :)
<smartboyhw> ttoine, the Xubuntu team are discussing of how to use their money, and they are talking about T-shirts. Why didn't we use the vendor providing the T-shirt service for Canonical? It seems like Xubuntu thinks it might be a good idea (over Spreadshirt)
<smartboyhw> ttoine, you should join in in #xubuntu-devel to have a look
<knome> we don't know if that's doable. it might be their vendor doesn't take individual orders.
<ttoine> if xubuntu has money, i am happy for them
<ttoine> we don't
<ttoine> knome, for what I know, they buy bulk orders
<knome> yep, that's what we thought
<ttoine> that is why they have sales on odl stock
<ttoine> and that's why I choosed spreadshirt
<ttoine> smartboyhw, we don't have money
 * smartboyhw seriously thinks if we can accept donations
<ttoine> maybe we will have some sponsorhip in the future, but I don't have time for that
<smartboyhw> Kubuntu can, Ubuntu can
<ttoine> smartboyhw, for that, we have to be a legal organisation
<ttoine> we don't
<smartboyhw> ttoine, garrumph
<smartboyhw> knome, how did you get the money?
<knome> smartboyhw, we wrote articles for a magazine, and they paid us per page.
<smartboyhw> knome, I know about the magazine, I don't know about the paid-per-page part.
<smartboyhw> Hmm
<knome> smartboyhw, so literally speaking it's not "project money", it's money that people got from writing, but since they didn't want it, i took it all and we consider it "project money"
<knome> we didn't sell xubuntu, or xubuntu-related stuff, we sold our time and expertise (the articles)
<knome> they just happened to cover xubuntu-related issues.
<ttoine> knome, of course
<ttoine> maybe we should try to do like crossover do for wine
<ttoine> or rhe with centos/fedora
<ttoine> keep Ubuntu Studio, and create a supported commercial version without Ubuntu in the name
<ttoine> but that's a business
<ttoine> and I don't know who could have time for that
<knome> sounds like a lot of work, more than a legal organization
<ttoine> and if there is enough business to pay someone
<ttoine> knome, I was thinking about something like that in the past. One of my dream would be to run a multimedia open source lab
<knome> :)
<ttoine> who would sponsor projects like ubuntu studio
<ttoine> but how this project earn money, that is the question without answer at the moment
<ttoine> at least, we could try to make some partnership with Harrison Mixbus, Lightworks and LinuxDSP to sell pre-installed Ubuntu Studio with their software
<ttoine> could be a possible start...
<knome> got to go
<knome> good luck with your ideas and dreams :)
<knome> it's been done before, so why not...
<knome> see you later!
<OvenWerks> Noskcaj: We have a bug with our -settings package found while testing beta1. The bug is fixed and committed. What is my next step? The fix is only in the postinst script.
<OvenWerks> Do I need to call it FFe?
<Noskcaj> OvenWerks, Request a merge, then wait for the sponsorship team. FFe is for upstream changes mostly
<OvenWerks> Merge? Even if it is already committed?
<OvenWerks> Noskcaj: ^^
<OvenWerks> We just need it uploaded.
<Noskcaj> OvenWerks, Into the lp:ubuntu/PACKAGE branch (i.e. uploading it)
<OvenWerks> Noskcaj: So on https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/ubuntustudio-default-settings I select Propose for merging... then lp:ubuntu/ubuntustudio-default-settiings? I get no items matching.
<Noskcaj> Then you need to release it as version 0.48, like xnox did last time
<Noskcaj> then you can upload
<OvenWerks> I don't have permition to do that
<Noskcaj>  Then find xnox, because i have no power, anywhere
<OvenWerks> OK
<OvenWerks> Thank you
<knome> re: FFe, you basically need to file one if it's anything apart an UI/Doc change or a bugfix.
<OvenWerks> knome: This is just a straight bugfix. It only seems to affect a distro upgrade if the user doesn't choose the cleanup option to remove unneeded packages. Other wise it is hidden :)
<knome> bugfixes are always fine without paperwork even after FF
<knome> (until final freeze)
<OvenWerks> ok, so just keep bugging in ubuntu-devel then
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-13
<micahg> OvenWerks: you need something sponsored?
 * micahg thought he uploaded that
<micahg> did the branch move?
<micahg> I was about to sponsor that and I can't remember why I didn't, maybe I was too tired to upload a grubish thing
<OvenWerks> micahg: 
<OvenWerks> lp:ubuntustudio-default-settings
<OvenWerks> or https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/ubuntustudio-default-settings
<OvenWerks> Ya it has moved
<micahg> I'm still a bit too tired for something grubish, maybe over the weekend if no one beats me to it
<OvenWerks> Ok. It is just making sure update-grub gets run after our package... borrowed from kubuntu's package
<xequence> Morning
<cub> morning xequence 
<cub> I got my new cup in the mail yesterday. I have just no luck. It was crushed on arrival. What also strange is that the same wrong printing was done on the new cup.
<xequence> cub: starting to be funny
<cub> hehe, yeah I'll check with them what they will do. The package looked fine when I pciked it up so I didn't open it there, as I probably should have done. Since it's the delivery that broke it.
<cub> and covered with red tape "Careful Glass!"
<cub> I don't know if this one was printed before or after ttoine made some adjustments to the template.
<smartboyhw> http://hk.digitalfreedomfoundation.org/sfd2013/schedule \o/
<smartboyhw> cub, the cup broke!? :(
<cub> smartboyhw, yeah it hadn't survived the shipping. They are quite brittle. They are packed really well but it didn't make it anyhow. :(
<OvenWerks> cub: The mug was of more interest to me than the shirt (len has too many Ts already) Stickers is sounding better all the time...
<cub> smartboyhw, what are you going to bring up on your spot on DFF? "What and who makes Free Software. Howard Chan, Ubuntu HK"
<smartboyhw> cub, tell people to think "Don't think this is MS or Apple:P"
<cub> do you have slides or a presentation?
<smartboyhw> cub, will be making one soon
<cub> cool, if you want to share them afterwards I'd like to watch them.
<smartboyhw> cub, uh hum, they will mainly be Chinese-.-
<cub> doh!
<smartboyhw> I might be able to give you a translated copy
<cub> hehe no worries, I'm just curious
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-15
<smartboyhw> Hello xequence 
<horrorprn> hi room
<horrorprn> is anybody awake?
<smartboyhw> horrorprn, hello
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks: We seriously have to put the wallpaper in before Thursday... I hope that madeinkobaia can make the changes soon enough
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: if you read the backscroll... If all else fails we can change it to the grey version of what we have. Anyone else have an idea for backdrop?
<zequence> OvenWerks: I think either we go with the new one made by madeinkobaia, or we just leave things as is
<zequence> OvenWerks: Tomorrow I'll get the icons done, to finish up the menu
<OvenWerks> zequence: great. So long as I don't have to worry about it :)
<OvenWerks> Also, we need to test upgrades again to test that generic images have gone away as this is supposed to be fixed now.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-09-10
<weedlight> Any ubuntustudio developer here?
<weedlight> I'm asking because I'm developing an audio sequencer http://ags.sf.net
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-09-12
<OvenWerks> Just so people know... my studio has been flooded out so everything is put away for a few months.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-09-13
<zequence> OvenWerks: Sorry to hear that.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-09-07
<OvenWerks> More new user suggestions: https://community.ardour.org/node/8986#comment-41069
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-09-08
<SakreZZz> good suggestion OvenWerks 
<sakrecoer> finaly got this dev install running. first thing i did was to open ubuntustduio controls...
<sakrecoer> what is it supposed to do? realtime is on, and my user is in the audio group... why would i want to change those settings?
<sakrecoer> ok, help answered my questions. its in case the machine has multiple users...
<holstein> if you added a user, that user wouldnt necessarily get those tweaks
<sakrecoer> thanks!
<sakrecoer> makes sense...
<sakreZzZZzz> i organised all the fonts distributed in to a few groups in fontmanager. the basic ones: sans, serif, mono, script, breadtext and one named "poster" for all the fantasy fonts. The config file ends up in ~/.config/ is this file something that could be interesting for the masses?
<sakreZzZZzz> i also deactivated all the "poster" fonts to enhance inkscape speed at start up. This creates a file ~/.config/fontmanager/ maybe this can be usefull too?
<OvenWerks> sakreZzZZzz: The question is if this file can be used from /etc/ or /etc/xdg/ or /usr/share/something.
<OvenWerks> sakreZzZZzz: it would be best to use the system config file for a change to the ISO.
<OvenWerks> sakreZzZZzz: what is the actual fontmanager application you are using? the "Font Manager" from our menu in 1404 does not use that directory by default. I am looking at font-manager from command line.
<zequence> sakreZzZZzz: Only Ubuntu Studio has that set up for the first user. Anything else based on Ubuntu won't.
<zequence> So, if you are on regular Ubuntu, install ubuntustudio-controls to make sure the user gets realtime privilege
<zequence> The audio group membership is a hack done to the installer, which I haven't actually looked at how it is done
<zequence> Was done by someone not in the ubuntu studio team. Might have been cjwatson
<zequence> In Debian, all regular users are in audio group. In Ubuntu not, because of security reasons. It's not a regular user group anymore, so to speak, and shouldn't be on Debian either
<zequence> I've been trying to change that, but Debian folks are a bit hard to communicate with sometimes (reference to a Ubuntu wiki page automatically made someone reject my bug report)
<zequence> I will give it another go this autumn
<zequence> My goal is for there to be a single way to get realtime privilege in all Debian derived, and in a way that you get that just by installing jackd
<zequence> since jackd is packaged for Debian, it assumes all users are in audio group, which is true only in Debian
<sakrecoer> thanks!
<zequence> That single problem is a huge barrier in Debian based audio world
<zequence> ..for users
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: yes, font-manager. in 14.04. you are right, the file is generated once fontamanger is started but only after the user activley creates a group
<sakrecoer> the trick would be to find where to put it...
<sakrecoer> it's the standard ubuntustudio fontlist...
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/fontconfig/fontconfig-user.html shows some system file locations.
<sakrecoer> zequence: i understand better now. I've never installed ubuntustudio in a school or an environement where one computer needs several users. wealthy me....( ..)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: -controls also allows installing Studio metas on another flavour(kubuntu, xubuntu, etc.)
<sakrecoer> ok... hmm...
 * sakrecoer so many questions
<sakrecoer> anyways... audio questions other day :)
<sakrecoer> fonts a gogo...:p
<sakrecoer> i like the new tab focus
<sakrecoer> funky nice
<sakrecoer> i'm trying to understand the link OvenWerks just sent.
<sakrecoer> the file that fontmanager is using is an .xml file
<sakrecoer> fontgroups.xml
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: That link actually came from the help that is part of font-manager.
<OvenWerks> Click on the circle with the ? and then select advanced settings.
<OvenWerks> What it is basically saying is that there are some system files that are generic across XDG compliant systems that could do what you are trying to do with font-manager specific files.
 * OvenWerks is disapointed that the documentation does not give more information about font-manager's config files.
 * sakrecoer looking at a circle with the ? and a funky singing cat-dog
<sakrecoer> i think it looks good
<sakrecoer> i just learned about it
<sakrecoer> so i have a lot to read...
<sakrecoer> but yeah, it's a bit wild the doc..
<sakrecoer> i wonder if the system first loads the fonts, and then fontmanager unloiads them?
<OvenWerks> man font-manager is very sparce.
<OvenWerks>  :P  yuck!
<sakrecoer> but can we not put files in ~/ ?
<sakrecoer> hehe... my question echoed in me... 
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: sparce? the man as in manual?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: type:
<OvenWerks> man font-manager
<OvenWerks> from the command line.
<OvenWerks> The unix man page should normally have a list of all config file locations
<sakrecoer> :D thanks!
<OvenWerks> look at man bash for example. There is a Files section.
<sakrecoer> oh! a REAL poem!
<sakrecoer> how to search in man
<sakrecoer> ?
<sakrecoer> ah maybe i found..
<sakrecoer>  :p
<sakrecoer> hmm... pattern "Files" not ofund...
<sakrecoer> so the generated filepath and the generated file is hard coded in font-manager
<sakrecoer> and its not ok to place it there at install..?
 * sakrecoer epiphany
<sakrecoer> not a very long one...
<sakrecoer> found an interesting py script
<sakrecoer> /usr/share/font-manager/utils/xmlutils.py
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Sorry, I guess it is a FILES section. search with /FILES in a man page as it is just using less.
<sakrecoer> no prob :)
<sakrecoer> al the confiog files are talking about local.conf that will replace them soon and alsto about Fontconfig creating files
<sakrecoer> but i can't find "fontconfig" program...
<sakrecoer> i have to charge my wetware battery.. :,C
<sakrecoer> how is that desktop files cleaning thing going, i have to look into that.
<sakrecoer> bye y'all! goodgame!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-09-09
<OvenWerks> sakreZzZZz: when you get back, fontconfig might be fonts-conf?
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: fonts-conf gives me command not found 
<sakrecoer> I noticed scribus has dissapeared from the menu in dev, but its still present. i guess its that desktopfile thing.. looking into that today. just need to read up on the procedure again
<sakrecoer> scribus is still present *in the system
<zequence> sakrecoer: I reported a bug on that.
<zequence> bug 1487031
<ubottu> bug 1487031 in scribus (Ubuntu) "desktop file missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1487031
<zequence> Not sure what the holdup is.
<sakrecoer> ok... something about libstdc++6 transition according to a comenteer..
<sakrecoer> i havn't been able to test 15.04 at all.... is scribus hidden in it?
<zequence> Don't think so
<sakrecoer> great... but then, how did you fix it? did you guys made a desktopfile?
<zequence> Apparently there is a fix in Debian, but no one has yet got the fix into Ubuntu
<sakrecoer> i'm not sure it is worth the time explain it with more details to me just yet... :)
<zequence> If you like, you could take a look at it. If you can fix the package locally, I can help with the administration of getting the fix into Ubuntu
<sakrecoer> that would be AWSOME!
<zequence> sakrecoer: I would get both the Ubuntu and the Debian sources, and find only the fix for the desktop file in the Debian source, then add it manually to the Ubuntu source
<zequence> sakrecoer: First, install some dev packages: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-dev-tools git
<zequence> Then, head to http://git.debian.org
<zequence> Do Ctrl+F to find scribus. It'll have a link to here http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/scribus.git/
<zequence> Actually, you can get this info from the Ubuntu package as well
<zequence> But, it's good to know about that place
<sakrecoer> i still quite havn't figured where the ubuntu packages are... ( . .)
<zequence> At the bottom of the scibus page, there's a section called Clone. The one you want right now is https://anonscm.debian.org/git/collab-maint/scribus.git
<zequence> To clone the scribus source, you do: git clone https://anonscm.debian.org/git/collab-maint/scribus.git
<zequence> You might want to add this at the end, so that you can separate source dirs..
<zequence> git clone https://anonscm.debian.org/git/collab-maint/scribus.git scribus-debian
<zequence> To get the Ubuntu development source, do: bzr branch lp:ubuntu/scribus scibus-ubuntu
<sakrecoer> the ubuntu-dev-tools, is it ok to install them in the my dev environement or should i try to keep it as close to the way i got it as possible?
<zequence> The dev environment is for developing, so you'll need tools for that
<sakrecoer> ok :) thanks
<zequence> Btw, you'll probably need a ssh key set up in order to get the bzr branch
<zequence> Both a ssh key and a gpg key is needed, if want to build packages and upload
<zequence> To fix the ssh and gpg key, see here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/SetupDeveloperEnvironment
<sakrecoer> ok... gpg is all good, ssh-key gave ma lots of headache on my previous install. But i whiped it so it should be good now.
<zequence> You'll need to add the public ssh key to your lp account
<zequence> Also, the gpg key
<zequence> Both are mentioned on that page I just linked
<sakrecoer> thanks
<zequence> Make sure to keep your gpg and ssh folder backed up, so you don't need to do this too many times :)
<zequence> If you ever start packaging for Debian, you will want to keep the same gpg key forever, pretty much. Once other developers have met you in person, and agreed to sign your key, the gpg key becomes your virtual ID, which people can trust.
<zequence> So, also keep them safe. Unreadable, and on encrypted drives.
<sakrecoer> thanks :) i will
<zequence> sakrecoer: I'll mention some more stuff now, but you can read it once you catch up
<sakrecoer> perfect! please do write, i have to go away a short moment, but i keep it logged :)
<sakrecoer> this is exactly what i need zequence 
<sakrecoer> a little guidance..
<zequence> There are ways to search for the fix, but in this case, it seems to be simple enough to find
<zequence> To see where the change happened, see the git log, with the command: git log
<zequence> You'll find a commit that says (...) debian/scribus{,-data}.install: install the .desktop file in /usr/share/applications in the scribus binary (...)
<zequence> To see the actual changes in that commit, do: git show 0f3a7ac3af72dac5a4270fa32497072315751ee2
<zequence> The 0f3a.. is the id for that commit. You'll see it in the git log.
<zequence> From that commit, you should be able to figure out how to change the Ubuntu package so that it will include the desktop file
<zequence> As a first step, just add the fix to the Ubuntu source package, commit the change using bzr, and then build and test the package.
<zequence> So, naturally, you'll now be in the root dir for the bzr source package (which we called scribus-ubuntu)
<zequence> To add and commit the change do: 
<zequence> bzr add .
<zequence> bzr commit -m "testing fix"
<zequence> Then, to build:
<zequence> bzr-buildpackage
<zequence> Ah, sorry, I forgot :)
<zequence> Forget the last commands for bzr.
<zequence> Do this instead..
<zequence> Add the changes to the bzr branch: bzr add .
<zequence> Then, edit the Debian package changelog: dch -i
<zequence> Doesn't matter what you write there. This is just a test. The version will have added "ubuntu0" to it, or something like that.
<zequence> You can change the version to "wily" too
<zequence> Once you are done, save the changes. Then, to commit, run the command: debcommit
<zequence> Now, you can build the package, with: bzr-buildpackage
<zequence> And, install and test: sudo dpkg -i ../scribus<something>.deb
<zequence> Once you know you got the fix done and working, let me know.
<zequence> I will add this stuff to the wiki in the coming weeks. Let you know when it is in place, and I would appreciate feedback.
<zequence> OvenWerks: -menu, -controls and -meta should all be in proposed soon.
<zequence> Am I forgetting anything?
<sakrecoer> zequence: i will be quick letting you know if you did.
<sakrecoer> thank you very much!
<sakrecoer> i just got random ubuntustudio lovemail from a stranger on a foroum. Thought it could make you guys smile :)
<sakrecoer> 99musik.se
<sakrecoer> peppchannel# (^^,)
<zequence> sakrecoer: Do you have any experience at all with source code, btw?
<zequence> And, if you ever want tips on anything at all, just ask. Or, if you would like to see documentation about it on the wiki.
<sakrecoer> thanks zequence... just a littlebit experience with source code... mostly php/html tho, so no building needed (^^,) but i got a bit of git experience by collaborating on blender projects and with the HTML5 exporter for kid3
<sakrecoer> but i think your instructions were fairly easy to follow...
<sakrecoer> i am at it now..
<sakrecoer> i see kid3 didn't make it in this version btw...
<sakrecoer> it's a very sweet ID3 tagger...
<sakrecoer> zequence: i am at the stage where you wrote: dit the Debian package changelog: dch -i
<sakrecoer> so i did this, and it opens up a log in any of 3 texteditors...
<sakrecoer> in it i see there is some editing i just did logged, but i don't get *where* to enter "willy" or write something...
<sakrecoer> well... i wrote nothing it was happy...
<sakrecoer> now i'm building...
<sakrecoer> hmm.. build failed...
<sakrecoer> i seem to be missing some packages to build...
<sakrecoer> working smooth
<sakrecoer> gah... forgot to add my gpg key haha
<sakrecoer> hmm... DEBFULLNAME="John Doe"
<sakrecoer> DEBEMAIL="johndoe@mailserver.com"
<sakrecoer> oops
<sakrecoer> ssh-keygen -t rsa made me a bunch of keys without asking for an email adress, so gpg is looking for a key that matches my user@localmachine ... :/
<sakrecoer> nah well.... lets try this again then...
<sakrecoer> ok... maybe the -C flag should be mentioned in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/SetupDeveloperEnvironment#Create_a_SSH_Key
<sakrecoer> not too happy about the comment email adress displaying on my launchpad profile... 
<sakrecoer> hmm.... i'm doing this wrong...
<sakrecoer> i must be missing some input where to put my identity for bzr... i've done the bzr whoami, and also added the lines in .bashrc... 
<sakrecoer> my gpg keys are in the keyring, but when its time to sign the build, gpg wants to have the secret key for set@sakreDEV .... (being my user@localmachine)
<sakrecoer> hmm... i managed to break the debian/changelog... i think i give up for today...
<sakrecoer> in the end i got a few error messages such as this one: "E: scribus: debian-changelog-file-contains-invalid-email-address set@sakreDEV"
<sakrecoer> but there is no such email in the changelog file... , i removed a few lines where my name was writen in brackets onetime fullname, another just name... and now its borken lol
<sakrecoer> hmm... maybe because i forget to set my launnchpad id in bzr...
<sakrecoer> yes that fixed it.... but this time i gpg: skipped "Set Hallstrom <set@sakrecoer.com>": secret key not available" wich is strange because "gpg --list-secret-keys" is showing it..
<sakrecoer> na well... sorry for flooding the channel maybe... :/
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: sorry, I meant to add kid3. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.wily/revision/1451
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: there is done. I added the qt version as it tries to add a lot less deps.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: it should show up in the "new" menu in Audio Production->Audio Utilities
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: It was already installed here from me testing it which is why I thought it was already added and so I had already put it in the menu.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: you rock! :)
<zequence> sakrecoer: To get build dependencies, do: sudo apt-get build-dep scribus
<zequence> sakrecoer: You can build without signing, doing: dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc
<zequence> But, you might as well figure out all that stuff, so it works for you.
<sakrecoer> thanks! it's awsome
<sakrecoer> i'm logging it
<sakrecoer> :)
<sakrecoer> i figured the dependencies thing, but your way was much easier
<sakrecoer> well.. i havn't tested it yet, but mine was tedious haha
<zequence> :)
<sakrecoer> now my problem is the gpg.
<zequence> It's the email that needs to be correct
<sakrecoer> well. now it is.
<sakrecoer> gpg: skipped "Set Hallstrom <set@sakrecoer.com>": secret key not available
<zequence> Well, I guess both name and email
<zequence> hmm, skipped?
<zequence> YOu have a password for the gpg key, right?
<sakrecoer> i didn't even have to enter the passphrase for the ssh key this time actualy..
<sakrecoer> yes
<sakrecoer> but it never asked for it
<zequence> And, if you do: echo $DEBEMAIL
<sakrecoer>  gpg --list-secret-keys shows it
<sakrecoer> ok
<sakrecoer> set@sakrecoer.com
<zequence> And, $DEBFULLNAME is ok too?
<sakrecoer> Set Hallstrom
<sakrecoer> yeah... seems so
<zequence> And, you are sure the gpg key has the exact same information?
<sakrecoer> gpg --list-secret-keys tells me so
<sakrecoer> only diff i can see would be the comments..
<sakrecoer> i could try bzr with -k C74D7E67
<sakrecoer> but i should try with a package that is faster to build.
<zequence> Do you have more than one key?
<sakrecoer> not in launchpad
<sakrecoer> MAybe it is because no one has verifyed it yet :)
<sakrecoer> i haven't met a single person with gpg since i started using it.
<zequence> No, it doesn't connect to the internet
<zequence> You can do: dpkg-buildpackage -k<keyid>
<zequence> bzr-buildpackage will use dpkg to build the package, but it will also do some other stuff
<zequence> If you get a complaint about no orig source (guessing you should have it already), cd to the parent, and do: pull-lp-source -d scribus
<zequence> -d means download only, so it won't decompress it. You get the orig tar doing that
<zequence> Anyways, time to get to sleep. Will check in tomorrow
<sakrecoer> thanks! :) dream big!
<sakrecoer> well, i got no complaint, things seem to have built.
<sakrecoer> but signing didn't work..
<sakrecoer> i did dpkg-buildpackage -kC74D7E67 i don't remember being queried for my passphrase tho..
<sakrecoer> build installed, now its in the desktop menu
<sakrecoer> software seems operational
<sakrecoer> but dpkg-buildpackage: warning: not signing UNRELEASED build; use --force-sign to override
<sakrecoer> geez... scribus is awsome...
<sakrecoer> sometimes freesoftware is overwhelmingly free. i get these fantasies of books and colors, but then again, what text and which form? :D
<sakrecoer> but tools are there no problem, you go get that idea
<sakrecoer> <3
<sakrecoer> !ubottu echo $WORLD_PEACE >> good --local
<ubottu> sakrecoer: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<sakrecoer> i like you too ubottu
<sakrezZZz> hmm.. apt-get was complaining about dependencies.
<sakrezZZz> i remembered the sudo apt-get build-dep scribus
<sakrezZZz> and now the menu is gone
<sakrezZZz> no to fiesta yes to siesta.. :D
<sakrezZZz> bye
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-09-10
<zequence> sakrezZZz: dpkg doesn't apt-get stuff, so if you are missing dependencies, after installing scribus, do: sudo apt-get install -f
<sakrezZZz> zequence: the fix in debian fixes it in ubuntu. so now the question is, how do i submit it?
<sakrezZZz> more precisely: 0f3a7ac3af72dac5a4270fa32497072315751ee2
<sakrezZZz> commit fixes the issue.
<sakre_> i have missplaces the mail with the links to the wikipages with the desktop file thing... 
<sakre_> it was a list of packages to go thru
<zequence> sakre_: I'll get back to you tomorrow about that. What you need to do is make a patch of the changes that fixes the abscence of the desktop file
<zequence> I haven't checked the difference between the sources yet, so don't know how far they are apart (Debian and Ubuntu), but since we are past feature freeze, we should only focus on fixing the bug. That means we keep the source as is, and separate the fix in a patch. The path itself is a sort of diff
<zequence> Once the patch is done correctly, you can upload your own bzr branch with the fix, and attach that to the bug report as a fix.
<zequence> Also, ask to have it merged with the Ubuntu source
<zequence> However, I'm not exactly sure what the state of the current "fix commited" is. Could be the fix is about to happen soon.
<zequence> In any case, it won't hurt for you to learn this stuff.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-09-11
<zequence> sakre_: There has been some activity with the scribus package lately
<zequence> Wait, I downloaded the source from the scribus project at launchpad, :P
<zequence> I was a little surprised there was no debian dir :D
<zequence> Something came up, so I need to do this later. I'll get back about the patchings stuff.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-09-12
<astraljava> eylul: Sure, yeah I have done some in the past. I can check in a while myself, but if you have it handy, what is the deadline for new packages in yakkety?
<sakrecoer> astraljava: i believe the deadline is feature freeze (past already, but i hear its possiblebto ask for exceptions). but perhaps eylul is interested in learning? :)
<sakrecoer> also, good morning fellow europeans and africans, afternoon fellow asians and oceaniand, and night fellow americans
<astraljava> Hello hello. :) Yeah I've worked against FF in the past. Let's see how big changes there are, so that we can discuss with the relevant people on whether or not we should ask for an exception.
<sakrecoer> if we talk about krita, just make sure you stay in sync with Ross, i know he is looking into it, and we don't want no one to do double work.. (ping krytarik)
<astraljava> Ok ok, cheers.
<geirdal> Good morning
<eylul> astraljava: what sakrecoer said. I am interested in learning, and while Ross did also kindly offer to teach, he has very limited time. 
<eylul> (and good morning everyone)
<sakrecoer> hi geirdal ! re:website images, yes highres would be great! :)
<geirdal> sakrecoer, ok will do it right away ;)
<astraljava> eylul: Well, as do I. :) But like mentioned before, I'll try to pay more attention to these matters in the future.
<eylul> alright that is fair astraljava
<astraljava> I'm glad to hear you're showing interest in these things, though. Whatever you need, just let me know. :)
<eylul> *nods* mostly I'll need somebody to who I can ask possibly stupid questions with potentially obvious answers when I get stuck. ;) mostly about procedures etc
<astraljava> eylul: That's awesome. It's been a while since I've worked on packaging, so asking questions gives me perfect opportunity to refresh my skills as well. :)
<eylul> astraljava: awesome
<eylul> I shall poke, soon enough about my first attempt. ;)
<astraljava> Cool. :)
<sakrecoer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-meta/+bug/1616175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1616175 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Studio Live CD build failing due to dependency loop" [Undecided,In progress]
<sakrecoer> it seems the iso are failing again though, not sure how to read th error mails, but they look different from the ones when it was this depency error.
<eylul> sakrecoer krita update isn't even in the iso yet I think
<eylul> we are waiting for somebody to upload it
<eylul> unless iso builds directly from the seeds
<eylul> and I misunderstand how this works (which is entirely possible)
<sakrecoer> i think you are right eylul, its not on the iso yet.
<sakrecoer> i read it as it builds, but the tracker chokes..
<eylul> tracker?
<sakrecoer> the site where the ISOs are downloadable..
<eylul> oh
<eylul> I do wonder if other variants are also failing
<eylul> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/360/builds
<flocculant> sakrecoer eylul - there is an issue with builds - everyone is affected - you'll see what's up on your buildlog(s) :)
 * OvenWerks is wondering what has happened to MIR. Any of Ubuntu's web pages about MIR seem to be mostly two years old (except for the addition that MIR is now a snap). The last bits seem to be getting GPU drivers...
<astraljava> Well, it seems to be getting commits pushed quite regularly, so seems to be under development still.
<eylul> ross, astraljava, sakrecoer, and anybody else following the krita saga: https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/calligra_1:2.9.11+dfsg-1.html  "Drop krita entirely from this source, since a newer version of it is going to be provided by a separate krita source"
<eylul> can we request exemption to feature freeze for an experimental package? 
<eylul> (and flocculant, thanks!) 
<astraljava> eylul: Basically anything is possible, if you can convince the proper people at #ubuntu-release (if my memory serves correctly). :) Is there a possibility that something else could fail?
<OvenWerks> astraljava: I guess unity relies on it, but it kind of looks like MIR as an X replacement hasn't gone anywhere. I get the idea that maybe desktop ubuntu will build on top of X and tablet will not? It is interesting that two years ago everything was going to be MIR... and then nothing.
 * OvenWerks take on it is that the GPU manufacture's do not want to make any linux driver... but in any case not more than one.
 * eylul waves hi to OvenWerks
<OvenWerks> o/
<eylul> astraljava I mean 3.0.1 has been out for a few weeks already, I haven't heard any screaming from anybody, the person who is doing the packaging seems to be the same person doing calligra packaging so I am not sure what could go wrong? *famous last words*
<OvenWerks> eylul: Are there two kritas now? has there been a fork?
<eylul> no, it seems packaging of it in debian is moving from calligra package into its own package
<eylul> ovenwerks ^
<eylul> :)
<OvenWerks> So there will be a krita that does not need calligra? Sounds great.
<eylul> OvenWerks: there has been a krita that didn't need rest of calligra suite for a while yup. :) but now it seems debian package will reflect that
<OvenWerks> calligra seems add a lot of extra stuff... even if one wants calligra.
<eylul> exactly
<astraljava> I'm not sure if there are any caveats to that. Some people more in the know could shine some light on it. But if it builds, and making the necessary changes to seeds won't break anything, I don't think there's reason to object.
<astraljava> Homebound via grocery store; talk to you guys later.
<geirdal> eylul, and everybody hi-res vertion of images with 1 new image http://geirdal.is/index.php/studio-0
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-09-13
<sakrecoer> eylul: krytarik: i need to know the name of the new modules for the wordpress to file a ticket to RT, preferably also a link to their origine :)
<eylul> sakrecoer: the plugin's name is Live Composer. More info: https://livecomposerplugin.com/ wordpress url: https://wordpress.org/plugins/live-composer-page-builder/
<sakrecoer> thanks eylul!
<eylul> our child theme needs to be given to them directly through, probably as a zip etc
<sakrecoer> oh...
<eylul> might be best to ask them how to get it to them. 
<sakrecoer> i think we might have the childtheme uplaoded already..
<eylul> which version of it?
<eylul> ;D
<eylul> I am not entirely certain how to answer the question on ubuntustudio channel btw
<eylul> oh thanks sakrecoer
<geirdal> ?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-09-17
<flocculant> can someone from studio grab latest and confirm or deny bug 1622303
<ubottu> bug 1622303 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Fails to unlock/ resume to black screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1622303
<flocculant> thanks peeps :)
<sakrecoer> flocculant: sure i'll try it during the morning... 
<sakrecoer> geirdal: hi! :)
<sakrecoer> you arround?
<sakrecoer> geirdal: do you think we can have this one in High-definition too? http://www.ubuntustudio.zequence.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/headerintro3.png
<sakrecoer> crossing fingers i do this right: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/1624690 (in vain, i don't do it right: no debdiff :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1624690 in Ubuntu Studio "[UIe/FFe] Please upload ubuntustudio-default-settings" [Undecided,New]
<geirdal> sakrecoer, yes I will do that
<sakrecoer> geirdal: \o/
<sakrecoer> do you think you could geridal-ify this image for video? http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/video.png
<sakrecoer> geirdal: ^
<geirdal> yes
<sakrecoer> double \o/
<geirdal> ;)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-09-18
<chamois> Hi everyone!
<sakrecoer> hi chamois !
<chamois> sakrecoer : I don't understand what Jonathan Aquilina wrote on the email
<chamois> I mean, I didn't send an attachment, just a link to youtube
<sakrecoer> chamois: i haven't seen it yet, let me check
<sakrecoer> chamois, i see no attachement either, let it be.. :)
<chamois> ok thanks!
<sakrecoer> that said, YOU ROCK!!!! chamois
<sakrecoer> maybe i miss tye cool rotation of titles.. but i can live without them :) perhaps that effect is too MTV (Fromwhen it broadcasted music) for evryone to follow :D
<sakrecoer> that effect = title rotation
<sakrecoer> chamois: let me know if you want me to render it for you :)
<chamois> Ahaha sakrecoer thanks! I know I miss it too but I think geirdal was right, the last version is more elegant, clear and it gets straight to the point.
<sakrecoer> yes, its easier to read as you did it now, chamois :)
<chamois> sakrecoer : That depends on how many samples we want.. If 100 is enough, I can handle it by myself. If not, I'll need your help ;)
<sakrecoer> what do you think, chamois ? is 100 enough?
<sakrecoer> we do want great quality :)
<sakrecoer> i think it would be nice to have the source-file regardless.. 
<sakrecoer> would you be ok with sharing the source file in the website assets repository on launchpad, chamois ?
<chamois> http://pasteall.org/pic/index.php?id=106805
<chamois> This is with 100 samples
<chamois> and yes!
<chamois> What do you mean.. the .blend file?
<sakrecoer> yes, the .blend file
<sakrecoer> you can share it with us via pasteall.org, before you do, make sure all external data is embedded, and open a text-editor window in blender and add your credits and license ;)
<chamois> I have never done something like this.. What should I write in the credits and license?
<chamois> sakrecoer
<sakrecoer> Just write something like "Creadted by One Chamois 2016, Creative commons license (preferably https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ )
<sakrecoer> chamois: ^
<sakrecoer> and then you can go fancy for the rest, like: "respect the penguins, big up to all GNUs. Peace love and having fun! Remember kids, drugs are bad" (nothing harmfull, hatefull, no bigotry, no sex etc of coursE)
<sakrecoer> chamois: actualy, this one is better: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ (international)
<chamois> sakrecoer: so "Created by One Chamois 2016, Creative commons license 4.0"?
<sakrecoer> chamois: yes, but include the link to the license, so we know which one it is :)
<chamois> "Created by One Chamois 2016, Creative Commons license https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/" ?
<chamois> sakrecoer : Can I use One Chamois as name?
<sakrecoer> chamois: yes, like that. you can use whatever name you are comfortable with. :)
<chamois> Ok thank you very much sakrecoer
<sakrecoer> no problem chamois :) thank _you_ !
<chamois> sakrecoer : I will change the video a little bit following the advices of Thomas.. I suppose that I should share the final version, right?
<eylul> Chamois I think thomas means, adding the names of the open source programs not the adobe ones. Unless I misunderstood the email? So having more program names in each category I believe
<chamois> eylul : You are right, thanks
<eylul> ;)
<eylul> btw nice job with the video
<eylul> and thank you for working on it
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-09-15
<Eickmeyer> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Sep 15 19:02:07 2018 UTC.  The chair is Eickmeyer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<Eickmeyer> #chair captain-tux eylul OvenWerks
<meetingology> Current chairs: Eickmeyer OvenWerks captain-tux eylul
<Eickmeyer> Anyone else here?
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> Hey!
<eylul> hey
<tedge> hi
<Eickmeyer> Hi tedge!
<Eickmeyer> Joining for our devel meeting today?
<tedge> yup, if that's ok
<eylul> new people!
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, that's cool. So far just eylul and myself, and the discussion today is on the entries for the wallpaper for 18.10.
<Eickmeyer> Could probably use the third vote if you're up for it.
<Eickmeyer> Anyhow, lets get this ball rolling.
<eylul> so how will we do this?
<Eickmeyer> #topic Cosmic Cuttlefish Wallpapers
<tedge> sure, how will they be selected? yes/no for each, choose favorites, etc.?
<eylul> tedge beat me to the question :D
<Eickmeyer> I'm thinking we'll go through each one, discuss, and then take a vote. We'll narrow it down to the top 20 and then let the public vote on the rest.
<Eickmeyer> Entries are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/CosmicWallpaperEntries
<Eickmeyer> The bottom two are disqualified for using the incorrect typeface.
<Eickmeyer> I noticed the logo was wrong on a few others, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
<Eickmeyer> So, we'll get started.
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 1. First Rays
<Eickmeyer> I actually like this one. It's a decent shot with plenty of bokeh and the subject matter of the flower isn't bad.
<eylul> I should just say that, most of my votes will be less about independent merits of the works.. and more on if I think they would work as a wallpaper or not.
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> Sounds good.
<Eickmeyer> Do you think this one works as a wallpaper, eylul?
<eylul> I like this. it is not busy, which is a good thing on a background image.
<Eickmeyer> Agreed.
<Eickmeyer> Shall we vote?
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> tedge_, captain-tux, anything to add?
<eylul> we lost tedge I believe.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, probably. Happens when people get tails.
<tedge_> yup, lost connection
<tedge_> tedge -> tedge_
<Eickmeyer> Well, let's go ahead and vote.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 1. First Rays
<meetingology> Please vote on: 1. First Rays
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<tedge_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tedge_
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 1. First Rays
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 2. Mountain of Caves
<Eickmeyer> I'm not flipped with this one. Seems to draw too mutch attention to itself and while the subject matter is interesting, the picture itself isn't.
<Eickmeyer> Thoughts anyone?
<eylul> (I did send you PM by the way) but I am neutral on this one
<eylul> I want to see how many we get, left and keep this or remove this depending. 
<tedge_> +0
<captain-tux> Omg, my IRC didn't update, sorry.. gotte catch up real quick..
<tedge_> ... testing connection ...
<eylul> captain-tux
<captain-tux> Yes
<eylul> we are only at the second image
<eylul> so maybe you can add your thoughts in :)
<Eickmeyer> tedge_: We had a brief discussion, and I hate to do this, but we don't really know who you are and we're kinda trying to keep this voting to the council, which consists of myself, eylul, OvenWerks, captain-tux, and one other that isn't here. 
<Eickmeyer> tedge_: We had set the rules at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/UserShowcase and we would be remiss if we didn't abide by them.
<captain-tux> Sure, thanks. It's a bit busy, but as a wallpeper, I'd include it.
<Eickmeyer> Well, lets go ahead and vote on it.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 2. Mountain of Caves
<meetingology> Please vote on: 2. Mountain of Caves
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: ?
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 2. Mountain of Caves
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<Eickmeyer> Okay, moving on to the third.
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Ubuntu Studio - Morning Dew
<Eickmeyer> I like this, though it's busy, and it's a creative use of the COF.
<eylul> I like that it is uniform, and it is different than other wallpapers we had before :) 
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: Any thoughts?
<captain-tux> I like it as well.
<Eickmeyer> cool.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 3. Ubuntu Studio - Morning Dew
<meetingology> Please vote on: 3. Ubuntu Studio - Morning Dew
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> +1
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 3. Ubuntu Studio - Morning Dew
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 4. Love Ubuntu Studio
<eylul> it is a wallpaper
<Eickmeyer> It's... cute.
<eylul> it kind of reads medical to me... :) 
<eylul> but I am somewhere between a neutral and positive for this one. :)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, hopefully not foretelling of flatlining. ;)
<captain-tux> Is thaf fine with the logo-thingy?
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: You mean the heart with the COF inside?
<captain-tux> Yep
<captain-tux> Don't know how Canonical feels about that
<Eickmeyer> I don't see why not. I didn't specify that we had to use the circled COF this time, so I'm letting it slide.
<captain-tux> Ah, okay
<Eickmeyer> #vote 4. Loe Ubuntu Studio
<meetingology> Please vote on: 4. Loe Ubuntu Studio
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<eylul> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 4. Loe Ubuntu Studio
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 5. Journey
<Eickmeyer> This one is unique.
<eylul> how so?
<Eickmeyer> I'm not flipped by it, and you can tell it's definintely tonemapped HDR, but I think I would've tried to put more blue into the sky.
<Eickmeyer> Maybe unique was the wrong word.
<eylul> ah
<eylul> I really really like the composition and it would make a good wallpaper. but there is some very visible issues with the contrast. 
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: Thoughts?
<captain-tux> Same pretty much, but I'd wave it through.
<Eickmeyer> Okay.
<eylul> (not the contrast, but.. the wavelet based sharpening)
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Yeah, I'm not a fan of that, personally.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 5. Journey
<meetingology> Please vote on: 5. Journey
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 5. Journey
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 6. United We Grow
<Eickmeyer> Another flower macro, this one is quite a bit lighter.
<eylul> good image, very clear, i like that the main subject is on right side (most people will have their icons on left, so that's a good thing on wallpaper)
<Eickmeyer> Would work as a wallpaper, but I'm not sure how many flowers we should include.
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: ?
<captain-tux> Is the sharpness a little off or am I seeing weird things? (on mobile atm)
<eylul> I think it is  a very VERY shallow depth of field
<Eickmeyer> It's a shallow depth of field, definitely. 
<eylul> or possibly minor editing on that right side. :)
<captain-tux> That's what meant, sorry. The focus is a bit weird to me, but it's fine.
<Eickmeyer> Likely a 50mm lens with a 1.8 aperature, but I'm only speculating.
<Eickmeyer> Anyhow...
<Eickmeyer> #vote 6. United We Grow
<meetingology> Please vote on: 6. United We Grow
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<eylul> that might be wider aperture or a macro filter on top but that's offtopic. ;D
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> +@
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 6. United We Grow
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<captain-tux> Close... :D
<Eickmeyer> LOL
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 7. Orange
<Eickmeyer> This is your classic "desaturate everything but the subject matter", but it's inconsistent. The stems on the background orange flowers were desaturated.
<eylul> the biggest issue for me is the edges around the flowers
<eylul> that reads as an error, rather than artistic choice.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. I'm not a big fan of this one.
<eylul> again unfortunate because I like the idea of having something of this sort in the mix.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<captain-tux> I actually like the saturation contrast, but othrr than that, not a huve fan, personally.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 7. Orange
<meetingology> Please vote on: 7. Orange
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> Omg, please excuse my writing..
<captain-tux> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 7. Orange
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:3 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 8. Birth
<eylul> (I like how the poor meetingology is trying to make sense of our ranking votes ;) )
<Eickmeyer> I rather like this one, but it's another "flower macro".
<eylul> I assume we will do a second pass
<eylul> to finalize, so I am in favor of just going with this one for now
<eylul> and decide if we end up with too many or uneven selections, if that makes sense?
<Eickmeyer> Okay. Sounds reasonable, but I'll have to go back through the logs to see the scores on some of them to eliminate.
<eylul> by the way we will need to remember to add captain-tux's vote on the first one
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, good point.
<eylul> speaking of *pokes captain-tux* thoughts?
<Eickmeyer> lol
<captain-tux> I feel a little undecided. It's good, but content on the "wrong" side, as eylul mentioned before..
<Eickmeyer> A good point.
<captain-tux> It's a little empty on the right.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 8. Birth
<meetingology> Please vote on: 8. Birth
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> Just black
<captain-tux> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from captain-tux
<eylul> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 8. Birth
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<eylul> just because we have so many flowers
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<captain-tux> That too.
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> No vote in progress
<Eickmeyer> Derp
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 9. Cymbal
<captain-tux> (OT) By the way, eylul, sorry if you've already mentioned, but I didn't see your wallpaper (the one with the blue static)?
<Eickmeyer> I rather like this one, but I'm biased as I'm a former drummer.
<eylul> that one is the default wallpaper captain-tux. :) 
<captain-tux> Ah, okay! Cool.
<eylul> :))
<captain-tux> Yeah, I likd this one too, more instruments. ;)
<eylul> this one is easily one of my favorites. its very content relevant to ubuntu-studio. very minimalist and smooth (good for a wallpaper)
<eylul> again focus is right side which is good.
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 9. Cymbal
<meetingology> Please vote on: 9. Cymbal
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 9. Cymbal
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 10. Ubuntu Studio - Paper Haptic
<Eickmeyer> I'm not a fan of the "Open Creation" tagline. Yes, it fits, but no, not our tagline.
<eylul> there is 3 of these.. as these are community wallpapers.. I am tempted to go with it.. unless it is a tagline that belongs to something else..
<eylul> mainly because I really like this wallpaper from a compositional standpoint
<captain-tux> I'm torn, because I want to value the idea, but am not a fan of the wording, either.
<Eickmeyer> Well, the third one uses the wordmark, so I'd be happier with that.
<eylul> (and I do think that it is better than the black variant)
<eylul> I think out of these 3 I am for the 1st and 3rd. 
<Eickmeyer> But, yes, I like this one better than the other two from a compositional standpoint.
<captain-tux> You mean the one that says improved?
<Eickmeyer> #vote 10. Ubuntu Studio - Paper Haptic
<meetingology> Please vote on: 10. Ubuntu Studio - Paper Haptic
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 10. Ubuntu Studio - Paper Haptic
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 11. Ubuntu Studio - Mineral Sparks
<Eickmeyer> Again with the open creation wording, and if I had to choose between this and 13 I'd go with 13.
<eylul> no for this one, simply because we have the ubuntuStudio variant, 2 candidates down
<captain-tux> Yes, same.
<Eickmeyer> I also have the feeling 13 was a resubmission of this one.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 11. Ubuntu Studio - Mineral Sparks
<meetingology> Please vote on: 11. Ubuntu Studio - Mineral Sparks
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> it might also be variants. 
<captain-tux> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from captain-tux
<eylul> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 11. Ubuntu Studio - Mineral Sparks
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:3 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 12. Ubuntu Studio - Blue Pattern
<eylul> its a wallpaper
<Eickmeyer> This one doesn't scale well, but I like the idea.
<captain-tux> It makes my display do weird things.. :P
<Eickmeyer> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯ 
<eylul> its a very retro feeling wallpaper. Yeah I am also noticing it. 
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: Same. if I scale it in it looks right, but if I scale it out it looks weird.
<captain-tux> Seems dangerous.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 12. Ubuntu Studio - Blue Pattern
<meetingology> Please vote on: 12. Ubuntu Studio - Blue Pattern
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 12. Ubuntu Studio - Blue Pattern
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:2 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 13. Ubuntu Studio - Mineral Sparks Improved
<Eickmeyer> I think we've discussed this one ad nauseum
<eylul> I like the white variant cleaner,  but yeah..
<Eickmeyer> #vote 13. Ubuntu Studio - Mineral Sparks Improved
<meetingology> Please vote on: 13. Ubuntu Studio - Mineral Sparks Improved
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 13. Ubuntu Studio - Mineral Sparks Improved
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 14. Adlfo Rojas
<Eickmeyer> I rather like this one. It covers a lot of the "studio" aspect.
<eylul> its not my favorite compositionally, but I like the concept
<captain-tux> It's not my personal favourite, but I can see how somebody would use it.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 14. Adolfo Rojas
<meetingology> Please vote on: 14. Adolfo Rojas
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 14. Adolfo Rojas
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 15. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper Street
<Eickmeyer> I'm inclined to disqualify this one as the COF is wrong.
<eylul> CoF?
<captain-tux> That logo is huge..
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. Compare it to the official one.
<Eickmeyer> The center circle should have a hole in the middle.
<captain-tux> Oh wow, didn't even notice.
<eylul> honestly neither did I.
<eylul> I really really like this. and that's a shame
<eylul> :(
<Eickmeyer> I didn't at first, but I don't think we can use it since the logo is wrong. :(
<Eickmeyer> Otherwise I like it.
<eylul> yeah
<captain-tux> Is this definitive or could we reach out to the creator?
<eylul> I think for the contest it is definitive
<captain-tux> Of the wallpaper I mean..
<eylul> to be fair to everyone
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. The rules were clearly outlined.
<captain-tux> Ah okay, makes sense..
<captain-tux> Well then.
<Eickmeyer> #info 15. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper Strett is disqualified: incorrect logo
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 16. Ubuntu Studio Contest Submission
<Eickmeyer> It's... a wallpaper.
<captain-tux> I like it. :)
<Eickmeyer> Very flat, much gravity, what flame. Wow.
<captain-tux> Yes
<Eickmeyer> What else can I say? Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<eylul> I am not sure..
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, not sure if this is symbolic of Ubuntu Studio "Going down in flames."
<eylul> its mostly
<Eickmeyer> #voote 16. Ubuntu Studio Contest Submission
<eylul> I am not entirely certain what the shape represents. but it works as a wallpaper
<captain-tux> You're being to negative.. :P
<Eickmeyer> #vote 16. Ubuntu Studio Contest Submission
<meetingology> Please vote on: 16. Ubuntu Studio Contest Submission
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<eylul> I am going to vote +1 I can be critical
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 16. Ubuntu Studio Contest Submission
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 17. Ubuntu Studio 2018 Contest Submission Part 2
<eylul> I am trying to go with: would this work as a wallpaper and how it goes with our criteria. rather than this is my personal opinion.
<Eickmeyer> I rather like this one as flat wallpapers go.
<eylul> I really don't like this one. 
 * Eickmeyer nods
<eylul> it wouldn't scale well in a large screen at all. or even a medium sized one. 
<eylul> (this is a comment I will bring to several of the images down the line)
<captain-tux> Not a huge fan either, but I don't see anything wrong with it.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 17. Ubuntu Studi 2018 Contest Submission Part 2
<meetingology> Please vote on: 17. Ubuntu Studi 2018 Contest Submission Part 2
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from captain-tux
<eylul> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 17. Ubuntu Studi 2018 Contest Submission Part 2
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 18. Yellow Love
<Eickmeyer> Right side, but blurry where it shouldn't be.
<captain-tux> Oh yeah..
<Eickmeyer> Just seems like the depth of field was too shallow.
<captain-tux> This is probably a no for me, enough blossom-choices.
<eylul> it just doesn't come across as depth.
<eylul> but I will still go neutral with this one
<Eickmeyer> #vote 18. Yellow Love
<meetingology> Please vote on: 18. Yellow Love
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from captain-tux
<eylul> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 18. Yellow Love
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:2 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 19. Fort
<Eickmeyer> Interesting subject matter, but I feel like the image is cut-off.
<eylul> the cut off doesn't bother me much as we have enough resolution
<captain-tux> Looks fine to me.
<eylul> its not the strongest wallpaper in the bunch, but I like the composition
<eylul> and how it would work on a wallpaper
<Eickmeyer> #vote 19. Fort
<meetingology> Please vote on: 19. Fort
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 19. Fort
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<eylul> (oh and I love the details on the foreground)
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 20. Adolphus' Score
<Eickmeyer> I'm kinda meh on this one.
<captain-tux> What does it play out?
<Eickmeyer> It doesn't. The notes aren't even real.
<eylul> it looks like a training sequence. 
<eylul> that's not the issue for me through. I like the idea.
<captain-tux> Should've taken some sheet music classes maybe. :D
<Eickmeyer> #vote 20. Adolphus' Score
<meetingology> Please vote on: 20. Adolphus' Score
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from captain-tux
<eylul> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 20. Adolphus' Score
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 21. True Creator
<Eickmeyer> I love this one.
<Eickmeyer> It speaks of multiple artforms.
<eylul> I don't like this as an image, but I like this as a wallpaper if that makes sense?
<captain-tux> The effects really annoy me, but it's not bad as an image..
<Eickmeyer> That makes sense. The context of a wallpaper is the driving force here anyhow.
<eylul> yeah the effect is why I don't like the image, but it works better when you zoom in. 
<Eickmeyer> #vote 21. True Creator
<meetingology> Please vote on: 21. True Creator
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 21. True Creator
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 22. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Old Camera
<Eickmeyer> The photographer in me loves this one too.
<captain-tux> So dark... perfect.
<eylul> again one of the strongest ones here
<eylul> context relevant, works well as a wallpaper
<eylul> not much to say really
<Eickmeyer> #vote 22. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Old Camera
<meetingology> Please vote on: 22. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Old Camera
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> _1
<captain-tux> +1
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 22. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Old Camera
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 23. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Bokeh
<Eickmeyer> Too busy.
<Eickmeyer> The bokeh isn't really... bokeh.
<eylul> not my style, but it works as a wallpaper.
<captain-tux> If it wasn't so bright, I feel it could've worked better.
<Eickmeyer> Looks more like paint dots to me.
<eylul> it might be bokeh
<Eickmeyer> #vote 23. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Bokeh
<meetingology> Please vote on: 23. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Bokeh
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 23. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Bokeh
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 24. Eye Rest Minimalist Wallpaper
<Eickmeyer> I'm trying to figure out what this has to do with anything.
<captain-tux> Same here, haha
<eylul> this, like the other one is very.. 1990s and I like them for that reason
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> I mean, I get mountains & trees (heck, I'm surrounded by 'em where I live), but it's very plain.
<captain-tux> The tree placement seems kinda random, too. Not a huge fan tbh.
<eylul> oh wait I am looking at the wrong one
<captain-tux> Since when? ;)
<eylul> I have no issues with minimalist illustration
<Eickmeyer> eylul: You got the right one now?
<eylul> but I think part of the problem is that the ground is missing
<eylul> (and yes i do)
<eylul> (I had scrolled a bit ahead, taking notes, and got confused for a moment)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. It looks like it's trying too hard to be modern.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 24. Eye Rest Minimalist Wallpaper
<meetingology> Please vote on: 24. Eye Rest Minimalist Wallpaper
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Eickmeyer
<captain-tux> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from captain-tux
<eylul> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 24. Eye Rest Minimalist Wallpaper
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:3 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Eickmeyer> #subptopic 25. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Macro
<Eickmeyer> This might be the one with the '90s look you were talking about, eylul.
<Eickmeyer> I rather like it, but it's not my favorite.
<eylul> you skipped one
<eylul> 24 is the macro. 
<eylul> 25 is*
<Eickmeyer> Yes...
<eylul> I like this photo
<Eickmeyer> I do as well.
<eylul> and i know we have a lot of plants, I like the colors on this one
<captain-tux> It's fine.
<Eickmeyer> #vote 25. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Macro
<meetingology> Please vote on: 25. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Macro
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> +1
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 25. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Macro
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 26. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Simple Grey Pattern
<eylul> this
<eylul> was the one 
<eylul> I referred as 1990s :)
<Eickmeyer> Same problem as 12.
<Eickmeyer> But the grey makes it more subtle.
<captain-tux> Yes, not any better than the other one..
<eylul> again I like it.
<eylul> I like the pattern use
<Eickmeyer> I'd let this one pass.
<eylul> my main concern is that the logo is very VERY tiny
<eylul> which is fine on a large screen, but it won't scale well on a laptop
<Eickmeyer> #vote 26. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Simple Grey Pattern
<meetingology> Please vote on: 26. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Simple Grey Pattern
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from eylul
<captain-tux> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 26. Ubuntu Studio Wallpaper - Simple Grey Pattern
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 27. Piano Wallpaper
<Eickmeyer> It's... good...
<eylul> I really wish this was centered on the right
<eylul> but otherwise yes, it is good. 
<captain-tux> That piano looks broken or something..
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. That might be what's bugging me.
<eylul> the shadow.
<eylul> of the logo
<Eickmeyer> You're right. It's not consistent with the shadow of the piano keys.
<Eickmeyer> Looks like it's supposed to be a reflection, perhaps, but there's no perspective to tell.
<captain-tux> Ah, that's what was bugging me...
<Eickmeyer> #vote 27. Piano Wallpaper
<meetingology> Please vote on: 27. Piano Wallpaper
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 27. Piano Wallpaper
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:2 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 28. Ubuntu Studio - Morning
<Eickmeyer> Busy, busy, busy, especially with the white wordmark.
<eylul> beautiful image
<eylul> really REALLY beautiful image
<eylul> just...
<eylul> not a wallpaper
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. Would work as a cover photo on Facebook, but doesn't sit as a wallpaper.
<captain-tux> Same
<eylul> giant text is really not the best thing on a background.. yeah
<eylul> exactly
<Eickmeyer> #vote 28. Ubuntu Studio - Morning
<meetingology> Please vote on: 28. Ubuntu Studio - Morning
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 28. Ubuntu Studio - Morning
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:3 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 29. Sunrise
<Eickmeyer> It's not bad, but I feel like the horizon is off.
<eylul> very beautiful composition, and would have worked well, but serious noise issues. 
<eylul> which would become very visible on desktop
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, definitely oisy.
<Eickmeyer> *noisy
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: Thoughts? Feelings? Hulllucinations?
<captain-tux> Hmm..
<Eickmeyer> Hullucinations. Right.
<captain-tux> I'd still go with it dsspite the noise.
<Eickmeyer> j/k
<captain-tux> Not today!
<Eickmeyer> #vote 29. Sunrise
<meetingology> Please vote on: 29. Sunrise
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 29. Sunrise
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<Eickmeyer> #subptopic 3. Ubuntu Studio - Bombay Night
<Eickmeyer> I like it, except the logo looks like it's going to roll over the city.
<Eickmeyer> And the horizon is off.
<captain-tux> That's exactly my thought.
<eylul> noise issues, similar slightly off angle. I like what the intention was
<Eickmeyer> #vote 30. Ubuntu Studio - Bombay Night
<meetingology> Please vote on: 30. Ubuntu Studio - Bombay Night
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 30. Ubuntu Studio - Bombay Night
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:1 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 31. Underwater World 1
<Eickmeyer> Just keep swimming...
<eylul> big logo
<eylul> this is unfortunately what I am going to say for this and following few images
<eylul> great promotional image. 
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<eylul> not a wallpaper
<captain-tux> I think this could work...
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: Anenomies?
<Eickmeyer> j/k
<eylul> they are good photographs.
<eylul> :(
<captain-tux> Erm.. :D
<Eickmeyer> #vote 31. Underwater World 1
<meetingology> Please vote on: 31. Underwater World 1
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> _1
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from eylul
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 31. Underwater World 1
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:2 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 32. Underwater World 2
<Eickmeyer> If I had to choose between the three, this is the one I'd go with. Fish circling the CoF.
<captain-tux> Busy, logo not centered.. :/
<captain-tux> Oh, that's why?
<Eickmeyer> But, compositionally, the placement of the logo makes sense.
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<eylul> unfortunately that's hard to catch a bit.. but this one really is a case of, I really wish it was just the photograph
<Eickmeyer> #vote 32. Underwater World 2
<meetingology> Please vote on: 32. Underwater World 2
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<eylul> because it is a really nice photograph that works well as wallpaper but sorry..
<eylul> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Eickmeyer
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: 32. Underwater World 2
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:1 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 33. Undrwater World 3
<Eickmeyer> CoF is wrong. Disqualified.
 * Eickmeyer sighs
<eylul> :(
<captain-tux> Where do they get the obe with the dot?
<captain-tux> *one
<Eickmeyer> Likely didn't use the resources provided but made their own.
<eylul> that's actually a good question
<eylul> because we have seen the same thing several times
<eylul> one sec
<eylul> going to double check something
<eylul> *is trying to find the folder where ubuntustudio wallpaper are*
<Eickmeyer> /usr/share/backgrounds/ubuntustudio
<Eickmeyer> eylul: ^
<eylul> yeah
<eylul> no we don't have a precendent for it
<eylul> that I can find
<Eickmeyer> I couldn't find it either, which is why I'm pretty sure we can't use it.
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic 33 & 34
<Eickmeyer> These have the wrong wordmark /and/ wrong logo.
<Eickmeyer> So, I didqualified them straight away.
<Eickmeyer> *disqualified
<eylul> ok
<Eickmeyer> Really, it's the old typeface, so it would've worked 8+ years ago.
<Eickmeyer> #topic Other Business
<Eickmeyer> I think we narrowed these down plenty, so I'll go ahead and compile them into a final form and attach a strawpoll.
<eylul> there is 2 things
<eylul> ok
<Eickmeyer> Go ahead...
<eylul> 1 is the google code-in
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Google Code-In
<eylul> which we should really put some tasks in if we have any low hanging fruits.
<Eickmeyer> Not a bad idea.
<Eickmeyer> I wish OvenWerks were here to discuss that and the possibilities.
<eylul> *nods*
<eylul> we can poke over the email. 
<Eickmeyer> Agreed.
<Eickmeyer> And the other topic?
<eylul> the other is... well...
<eylul> I am going to be stepping down from the core council
<Eickmeyer> I understand. Is there a reason?
<eylul> I am not going anywhere. I'll still be around the way Ross is.
<eylul> its getting to the point where I am taking more time
<eylul> from the group
<eylul> then contributing to it due to dragging projects
<eylul> my original plan was to phase out and leave a lot earlier.. but wanted to stay a little longer to help with transition, but i think its time
<eylul> you guys have got this. :)
<eylul> things are progressing
<eylul> I might be back eventually in a more fulltime contribution, but its quickly becoming hard to even make it to the meetings at the moment.
<Eickmeyer> Well, I know that I'll miss you. You've been an immense help, and I wish there was some way we could keep you, but I understand if you need to leave.
<eylul> I am going to be around
<eylul> to answer questions etc
<eylul> but probably won't be in meetings regularly
<eylul> and probably shouldn't be taking any active projects at least for next few months
<Eickmeyer> It's hard for me to make the meetings as well, which is why I was considering making them monthly or something.
<eylul> that could be a solution
<eylul> or weekly check-ins can be a solution
<Eickmeyer> I honestly like the weekly check-ins, and we can move it to email.
<Eickmeyer> Would that help?
<eylul> not for me
<eylul> it really is a case of too many commitments issue for me
<Eickmeyer> I understand totally.
<eylul> and I am the least useful on this one. 
<Eickmeyer> #info eylul stepping-down from council.
<Eickmeyer> Honestly, your contribution to the artwork has been invaluable.
<eylul> I'll probably still drop by some meetings. :) 
<Eickmeyer> And the epub is great, and I've just been slacking on putting it in the doc.
<captain-tux> Not happy to read this, but thanks for being open about it. :)
<eylul> I did one wallpaper. I'll probably be around sporadically to contribute on that front still
<eylul> mostly i don't want us to a) wait on me for dragging projects
<eylul> and pretend we have someone active when we don't. b) i don't want you guys to wait on decisions for me
<eylul> :)
<eylul> otherwise I'll still be around when I can contribute :)
<Eickmeyer> You're the least of the problems. :)
<eylul> well better to step down before becoming one. ;)
<Eickmeyer> Anyhow, we need to wrap this meeting. I have to do some cleaning before the mother-in-law gets here.
<eylul> all good
<eylul> sorry to drop this with no warning
<Eickmeyer> It's okay. We'll do something to lessen the burden on everyone.
<eylul> but figured it was better to drop this in person, in meeting
<eylul> recruit
<eylul> recruit
<eylul> recruit
<Eickmeyer> ^this
<Eickmeyer> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Sep 15 21:00:38 2018 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntustudio-devel/2018/ubuntustudio-devel.2018-09-15-19.02.moin.txt
<Eickmeyer> I've gotta get busy on cleaning. Thanks everyone!
<eylul> be well
<Eickmeyer> You too
<tedge_> hey, would now be an ok time to talk about PikoPixel?
<captain-tux> Thank you.
<eylul> I am here for a bit.
<Eickmeyer> tedge_: Go ahead.
<eylul> captain-tux. :)
<tedge_> first of all, thank you to the council for accepting pikopixel into ubuntu studio
<tedge_> (I'm the upstream developer of PikoPixel, which is an app for editing & drawing pixel art)
<Eickmeyer> Quite welcome, tedge_!
<tedge_> I've been doing some testing with a daily build of US and found a couple minor issues that I'm hoping to fix before release
<Eickmeyer> tedge_: Have you filed bug reports against those items?
<tedge_> in order to make the testing as complete as possible, I'd like to get PikoPixel included in the daily builds (I'm currently just installing the package manually)
<Eickmeyer> tedge_: OvenWerks was going to get it in the seed, I don't know what happened after that.
<Eickmeyer> If you lurk here, he'll probably answer after a while.
<tedge_> They are minor issues, so I haven't filed any external reports - the plan is to put out a bugfix release, get the Debian package updated, and hopefully get it updated in Cosmic as well before it releases
<eylul> if you can put out bug files it will help us remember
<eylul> and to watch and poke to see if we can get the debian repo changes make it to ubuntu repos
<eylul> so it helps. even if it is being fixed upstream.
<tedge_> I'd still like to get the current version installed in the US seed so I can make sure there's no further issues (which might not show up with a manual install)
<Eickmeyer> We're beyond feature freeze, so it'll need a Feature Freeze exception.
<eylul> *nods*
<tedge_> yup, I've updated it before past feature freeze
<eylul> basically the way the whole procedure works is that
<eylul> we don't do the update directly
<tedge_> also, is there anything I can help with related to integration, such as screenshots for the website, answering questions, etc?
<eylul> exceptions go though main ubuntu repository structure. if that makes sense? :) 
<tedge_> yup
<eylul> Eickmeyer can answer more, but generally what you are doing, testing. helps a lot
<eylul> we will be writing the release notes and writing a couple of sentences about what pikopixel is can be of help. 
<tedge_> I'm not asking (in here) for the package to be updated - I'm just letting you know that I'm hoping to get it updated soon, and testing with an updated seed would allow me to hopefully fix any issues I find before the Cosmic release
<eylul> oh ok
<eylul> honestly I think we lost Eickmeyer so I am hesitant to say more as I just stepped down
<eylul> I'll say this through, feel free to drop to the meetings, and we can also use more contributors to ubuntuStudio, if you are interested. :)
<tedge_> ok, thanks eylul.
<eylul> but yeah at this stage, 
<eylul> what you are doing (testing and fixing) is a lot of help, so thank you, for getting in touch with us.
<tedge_> sure, thanks. regarding the release notes - where can I find previous release notes, and who should I send the PikoPixel description to?
<eylul> let me find them, one sec
<eylul> http://ubuntustudio.org/2018/04/ubuntu-studio-18-04-released/
<eylul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
<eylul> the 1-2 sentences would go to the blog post
<eylul> e.g. on this update we added PikoPiksel to our list of graphics software. PikoPixsel is... (one-two sentences of what the software does)
<eylul> PikoPixel*
<eylul> I can't type tonight
<tedge_> thanks for the links. who makes the blog post when US is released?
<eylul> one of us
<eylul> its usually coordinated either through the US-devel mailing list. or the IRC chat.
<eylul> are you on the us-devel mailing list?
<tedge_> yup
<eylul> ok
<eylul> release notes happen usually sometime around last betas and release candidate testing.
<eylul> blog post will be drafted, around the same time. 
<tedge_> PikoPixel has a couple social media accounts that I can use to announce PP's inclusion in Ubuntu Studio - when would that be appropriate? now, close to release, after releasE?
<eylul> I would say after release or at least around release candidate, 
<eylul> just in case there is a major bug etc that prevents it from being there.. I sincerely doubt that will happen but.. :)
<eylul> which platforms are you on by the way?
<eylul> (just out of curiosity)
<tedge_> another way of looking at it is that it might get a few more people checking out the prerelease builds, which could help find issues
<eylul> Talk to Eickmeyer and OvenWerks
<eylul> they are the ones who follow closely the packages and their statuses.
<tedge_> do you mean what platforms PikoPixel runs on, or what I use to develop it?
<eylul> I mean the social media
<eylul> haha sorry
<tedge_> http://twitter.com/pikopixel
<tedge_> http://instagram.com/pikopixeleditor/
<eylul> alright :)
<tedge_> thanks again for your answers, eylul. sorry to hear you're stepping down - good luck with your future endeavors!
<tedge_> I have to get going - if anyone has questions about PikoPixel or wants to get in touch, you can email me at: pikopixel (at) twilightedge (dot) com. Thanks!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-09-16
<OvenWerks> sorry I missed the meeting. I didn't know pikopixel was supposed to get added... but it is added.
 * OvenWerks has a desktop background image: http://www.ovenwerks.net/paste/Laura_and_Len2018.jpg
<OvenWerks> but it is kind of personal :)
<OvenWerks> it was our aniversary yesterday.... and my son's b-day
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-09-09
<sofastrangler> cool
<OvenWerks> well when I started on -controls and -installer part of that was because I got to a place in my Ardouor work that was too difficult at the time. Basically I had to make a new widget out of a small group of widgets. So I finally got back at it... and about a week later it seems to be working. Still lots of tweaking to do, but it works well.
 * OvenWerks is happy...
<Eickmeyer> SWEET!
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Ardour 6.0 will have a whole foldback (stage monitor) section. Which most people will not see :)  Just those who use Ardour ro mix live shows.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-09-10
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's amazing. I'm in love with it already.
<OvenWerks> The actual foldback buses and foldback sends, I put in almost a year ago now. They have always been accessable from OSC but not from the GUI. I realized that before 6.0 was released I should make a GUI. SOme people have just used aux sends and buses before
<OvenWerks> but the aux sends quickly fill up the processor box and it becomes hard to find the actual processors like eq and comp and stuff. Then there are the extra buses
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: so all the sends are hidden in channels and there is a special foldback strip that shows one  at a time of the foldback buses with the send level that feed it.
<Eickmeyer> Oh, that's really cool. Definitely keeps the strip clutter down, if that's the case.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/Xqm4gLy.png
<OvenWerks> The show sends still allows the faders of the strips where the sends are really located to be used to set levels.
<OvenWerks> One can select all the channels they want to go to a fold back and then add them with one click.
<Eickmeyer> So, basically, it can be used as a full-fledged monitor mixer now with multiple monitor sends while keeping down the clutter.
<Eickmeyer> As opposed to only having one monitor send.
<OvenWerks> as a starting point for mixing the aux they can all be set to the same level as the fader too.
<Eickmeyer> That's stinkin' awesome. Great work!
<OvenWerks> Yes it is meant specifically for performance monitors for the artists
<OvenWerks> With a wifi hub it is possible for the artists to control their own levels from their smart phone
<OvenWerks> using osc which is where the whole thing started
<OvenWerks> The foldback bus can be optionally stereo so the performaer can have their own voice in one ear and everything else in the other.
<Eickmeyer> Yep. Behringer has some apps for this very thing, but I think they're proprietary and not OSC.
<OvenWerks> where you see the send labels, on stereo foldbacks there is a pan to the right
<Eickmeyer> Though, there's others.
<OvenWerks> actually behringer is quite open about the protocol, oen can use either MIDI or OSC
<OvenWerks> soundcraft has similar and so does A & H
<OvenWerks> The hard part for me was the send button/led/level/pan icon.
<OvenWerks> remote monitor control is so simple to implement, I don't know why anyone wouldn't add it to their digital mixer
<OvenWerks> anyway, still lots of work to do. There are some bugs and my method of dealing with long chanel names is not the best. It needs to be hidable and detachable still
<OvenWerks> I am just thinking that if it is detached... it may as well be like the mixer window and show all the foldback strips at once (well within the window size limits of course)
<Eickmeyer> I agree, Behringer is very open. Their consoles run Linux, but Ultranet is proprietary.
<OvenWerks> The audio transport is yes.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I actually have an OSC document for the X32
<OvenWerks> Two actually, an official one and an unofficial one  :)
<Eickmeyer> Oh cool! I had no idea they had OSC going on.
<OvenWerks> http://www.ovenwerks.net/paste/X32_OSC_Remote_Protocol.pdf
<OvenWerks> and http://www.ovenwerks.net/paste/X32-OSC.pdf
<OvenWerks> I DL both from their website
<OvenWerks> They take a bit of reading to figure out and the commands are all multi parameter so something like touchOSC will not work... 
<OvenWerks> Maybe enough things are for monitor control but feedback could be difficult
<OvenWerks> meters get sent as a bundle, all or nothing
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: if you are interested in those docs, you should grab them
<OvenWerks> They will be gone soon as you do.
<Eickmeyer> I might, but I don't really deal with the X-series anymore.
<Eickmeyer> Though, probably not a bad idea.
<OvenWerks> Well they should probably still be on their website... it seems I have to look harder for them every time.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-09-13
<OvenWerks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/+bug/1843926
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1843926 in ubuntustudio-controls "Web cam mic doesn't bridge" [Undecided,New]
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^
<OvenWerks> I am not sure if that should be a feature for next cycle or a bug for this one.
<OvenWerks> I am not even sure if the code for detecting usb card SR is in the 19.10 version.
<OvenWerks> Ah, it is not in master so feature for 20.04
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I can't reproduce that on my system. With my webcam, it bridges.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-09-14
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it depends on the webcam. try cat /proc/asound/card?/stream0 where the card? is your webcam device name/number. paste it to me (add |pastebinit)
<Eickmeyer[m]> Iâll have to do that in the morning.
<OvenWerks> in case you are wondering, the webcam in question had a maximum SR of 32000. I had already started a fix that would allow zita-ajbridge to be run at the closest SR to the jack master that the device supported.
<OvenWerks> But with the code I have it would have picked up only the first "Rates:" line which as you can see in the bug is 16000. So I need to go through the whole file and read in all the Rates: lines and combine them.
<OvenWerks> This is actually the second user with this problem I have talked to. The first had a direct guitar to USB that was only 48000... no 44100
<OvenWerks> This is actually the reason I bought the cheap (under $1) usb devices for testing.
<OvenWerks> I was able to reproduce the bug here by setting my jack master to 96000 and using one of these devices.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ok, so that's why. Jack doesn't like sample rate mismatch, so obvs would have to do an on-the-fly SR conversion.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: actually zita-ajbridge just needs a rate that the device will work with
<OvenWerks> Jack doesn't care what zita does :)
<Eickmeyer> Ok, so zita can do the SR conversion?
<OvenWerks> I do have a working update but was leaving it as a 20.04 feature. But this bug shows up a problem with that update even.
<Eickmeyer> BTW, if this is a bugfix (which I would treat it as), we can push it to Eoan since it's not a "feature" per-se.
<OvenWerks> that is what we use zita for it's SRC
<OvenWerks> even two devices running at 48000 are not exactly 48000 one will be 48001 the other might be 47998
<Eickmeyer> Ah, good point.
<OvenWerks> The new code looks for the first line with "Rates:" in it. but the user's webcam mic has three Rates: lines each with a different rate rather than one line with all three
<OvenWerks> so I need to change the new code to collect the rates from all the lines  :P
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<OvenWerks> if you want to push it into 19.10 I will work on that next
<Eickmeyer> Okay, let's do it. If it fixes the bug, then that's perfect.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks ^
<Eickmeyer> (was offline, was finally getting wired internet installed)
<OvenWerks> Ah, well I will work on that, but not today. I need to get ready to go out... it is A) our aniversary and B) my son's birthday.
<Eickmeyer> Happy Anniversary/birthday!
