#ubuntu-manual 2010-07-05
<daker> dutchie, ping
<zkriesse> HAPPY FOURTH!
<godbyk-sagan> Hey, zkriesse.
<godbyk-sagan> No fireworks here. Heavy rains instead.
<zkriesse> argh
 * zkriesse doesn't do fireworks either
<jenkins> morning all
<thorwil> morning!
<nisshh> afternoon for me!
<jenkins> any one running only kde?
<nisshh> jenkins: nope, but i used to run kde for a little while, why?
<jenkins> I would like to know what os.environ.get('DESKTOP_SESSION') in python gives, it may not work in kde aparently
<nisshh> ah, i dont have kde installed right now
<nisshh> couldnt tell you
<nisshh> jenkins: gimme a sec i might be able to find out for you though
<jenkins> ok thanks
<nisshh> jenkins: sorry, no one is running kde that i can get a hold of right now
<jenkins> thanks for trying :)
<nisshh> jenkins: oh, hang on, found someone maybe
<nisshh> jenkins: ok whats the code you need run?
<jenkins> import os
<jenkins> then  os.environ.get('DESKTOP_SESSION')
<jenkins> run python first
<nisshh> yep
<jenkins> what ever the output is would be great
<nisshh> jenkins: it might take a bit of time, the guy has to pass it to another guy
<jenkins> ok cool, this is a team effort
<nisshh> jenkins: yea
<thorwil> anyone here familiar with greek hyphenation rules?
<nisshh> thorwil: no, sorry
<nisshh> godbyk maybe?
<jenkins> thorwil: Guest93627 should be
<nisshh> jenkins: sorry, the guys vm was dead
<jenkins> no worries i will set a vm up, probably should do that anyway
<jenkins> thanks to all for trying
<nisshh> jenkins: no wait, lol, found another guy
<thorwil> Guest93627: hi! can you show me where one can hyphenate in the following text? http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=jJp2qLu6
<nisshh> jenkins: ok, i have the output!
<jenkins> yey, what does it say?
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> it locked up the guys konsole and then spat out this: >>> os.environ.get('DESKTOP_SESSION') 'default' >>>
<nisshh> and thats it
<jenkins> hmm thats what i thought 'default' thank you to both of you
<nisshh> no probs :)
<Guest93627> thorwil which word needs hyphenation?
<thorwil> Guest93627: ÎµÏÎ³Î±ÏÎ¯ÎµÏ. maybe others afterwards
<Guest93627> ÎµÏ-Î³Î±-ÏÎ¯-ÎµÏ
<thorwil> ah, suddenly a nice block!
<thorwil> Guest93627: Î¿Î´Î·Î³Ï?
<Guest93627> Î¿-Î´Î·-Î³Ï
<thorwil> Guest93627: Î±Î½Î¬Î³Î½ÏÏÎ·, let me guess: Î±-Î½Î¬-Î³Î½-ÏÏÎ·?
<Guest93627> Î±-Î½Î¬-Î³Î½Ï-ÏÎ·
<Guest93627> :p
<Guest93627> too close
<thorwil> heh
<Guest93627> is there another word that needs hyphenation cause i need to go...
<thorwil> Guest93627: no, it's good now, thank you!
<Guest93627> ok.. bye :)
<thorwil> damn, somehow ended up with 2 old commits in my lucid-e1 branch that i never pushed and have 22 revs not pulled :(
<jenkins> thorwil: bzr uncommit them then pull and recommit
<jenkins> just incase you did not know :)
<thorwil> well, fixed
<jenkins> hemanth: ping
<hemanth> jenkins, yo
<jenkins> hello you wrote http://pastebin.com/nEU9uvbd for quickshot, did you test os.environ.get('DESKTOP_SESSION') in kde? and get kde out like the code says? I find that it gives 'default'
<hemanth> jenkins, yes it was tested in kde, are u getting default for kde!?
<jenkins> nissh-h got some one to test it as I have not sorted out my vms. I also read a forum post that got default
<thorwil> godbyk: c7p mailed the back cover translation to me, i created the lulu_el.svg (pushed) and just asked him to check it for errors
<hemanth> jenkins, strange, sure will cross check
<jenkins> hemanth: thanks
<hemanth> jenkins, np, my pleasure
 * hemanth switching to kde
<hemanth> jenkins, working fine, what was the exact issue that happened? Me on lucid
<jenkins> there has been no issue it was just something i have stumbled along with os.environ.get('DESKTOP_SESSION')
<hemanth> o! ok, what does it say?
<jenkins> default
<jenkins> is the output it gives
<abhi_nav> when will e2 will release?
<jenkins> abhi_nav: not sure tbh
<hemanth> jenkins,pass the link, if u have it now, please
<abhi_nav> jenkins, ok. is it with 10.10 or before?
<abhi_nav> any rough idea/
<abhi_nav> ?
<jenkins> hemanth: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1139057
<hemanth> jenkins, thanks
<jenkins> abhi_nav: we set a date at one point but I can't rember, the person to ask is not on at the moment
<abhi_nav> jenkins, ok. thanks for your time though. :)
<jenkins> abhi_nav: no problem I could not do anything at the moment. If you hang around i can grab the person when they come online
<abhi_nav> jenkins, not its not that much urgent. Actually I am slowing progressing with e1 translation. so just fearing how to keep up with e2 translation. :(
<abhi_nav> slowly*
<jenkins> :( hopefully some strings are the same in lucid-e2 . What language are you?
<hemanth> jenkins, good catch, the discussions there makes a guess that, gdm is setting the desktop_session variable, so if people are on pure KDE only then it might not work
<jenkins> * doing.
<abhi_nav> jenkins, Marathi(mr) à¤®à¤°à¤¾à¤ à¥
<hemanth> jenkins, os.environ.get('KDE_FULL_SESSION') is the suggested method
<jenkins> hemanth: was that in the thread? did i miss it. I should not get distracted
<jenkins> abhi_nav: i have not heard of that which countries speak it
<hemanth> jenkins, yes its suggested in the last comment
<abhi_nav> jenkins, no not country. its speed in Maharashtra state of India
<abhi_nav> jenkins, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathi_language
<jenkins> hemanth: so it is. i just wasted 30 minutes finding that the long way
<hemanth> jenkins, no issues, shall i make those re-fixes ?
<jenkins> abhi_nav: wow
<abhi_nav> jenkins, :)
<jenkins> hemanth: no worries am moving it to a different file, along with the display stuff. quickshot in the main branch is broken at the moment.
<hemanth> jenkins, okies
<jenkins> thanks for checking hemanth
<jenkins> good luck with it abhi_nav
<abhi_nav> jenkins, thankyou!!! :D
<hemanth> thats ok, i'm must thank you also :)
<jenkins> be back later
<nisshh> aquarius: i was talking with Rick earlier today about the ubuntu dev manual, are you still planning on writing the chapter about desktopcouch?
<aquarius> nisshh, in theory, yeah, but if someone else writes it I'd be more than happy to make suggestions, and that would make it more likely that it got written sooner
<nisshh> aquarius: right, because your working on maverick, just like pretty much everyone else who is an "author" for the dev manual
<nisshh> aquarius: im thinking of taking it on as one of my projects and i suppose ill write the bulk of it and i figure you guys could sort of as you said "mentor" me and make suggestions
<aquarius> that'd be superb. I'd be more than happy to do that :)
<nisshh> aquarius: yea, because its obvious that a whole bunch of people WANT to do it, but you guys obviously dont have the time, which is a shame
<aquarius> nisshh, you stepping up is superb heroism
<nisshh> aquarius: thanks :)
<nisshh> aquarius: i just dont want to see something like the dev manual, which i think is key to getting new devs onboard, go down the drain simply because we didnt have time to write it
<aquarius> nisshh, I agree entirely
<nisshh> aquarius: yup :)
<j1mc> hi all - how are things going w/ regards to the content management website?
<nisshh> j1mc: still a concept at the moment :)
<j1mc> i haven't seen much activity on the ubuntu-manual list about it recently - have their been discussions on irc
<j1mc> nisshh: are there any plans documented anywhere?
<j1mc> just trying to get an idea of where things stand
<nisshh> hmmm, there was a mockup done a while ago
<nisshh> i dont have the link though
<j1mc> yes, i do recall that.  no worries.
<nisshh> basically, things abot it are the same as when the idea first came about
<semioticrobotic> have we even settled on a format for storing/presenting the content?
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: i dont know, i think ilya was researching that
<semioticrobotic> nisshh: okay.  I thought the momentum seemed to be building behind docbook, but I couldn't really confirm that
<nisshh> j1mc: i only asked about it yesterday and the answer was the same
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: yea, i lost track of it after about 3 ML posts
<nisshh> it was a toss up between docbook and mallard i think
<semioticrobotic> ha!  yeah, me too
<j1mc> i think essentially what we're talking about is creating a CMS.
<j1mc> i've done some more digging... was looking at plone.
<semioticrobotic> n00b question: Using x-chat, how to I mark myself as "back" from being away?
<j1mc> plone features: http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0
<daker> nisshh, j1mc  https://code.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/uslc
<dutchie> semioticrobotic: i'd guess just /away
<semioticrobotic> dutchie: Me too!  I tried that and it didn't work
<dutchie> /back?
<semioticrobotic> you rock
<semioticrobotic> I knew it had to be simple, but it does seem odd that x-chat would stray from that convention
<daker> Ctrl+Alt+A
<j1mc> daker: thanks
<nisshh> j1mc: right, its not just a CMS, we are using part of a CMS and adding various things on top
<nisshh> daker: i knew there was code somewhere\
<semioticrobotic> I believe I've seen Plone in action, but only as a user (never to administer anything)
<nisshh> yea
<j1mc> semioticrobotic: i have no experience with it whatsoever.  just think it has a good feature set, and i'm wary of trying to roll our own.
<j1mc> that's just me, though.
<j1mc> i don't want to put "stop energy" on the project, though.
<j1mc> just want to recommend plone as something that might be helpful.
<j1mc> if that makes sense
<nisshh> j1mc: that makes perfect sense, really you should talk to humphreybc though
<nisshh> hes the "dude to talk to"
<j1mc> i'm putting a note out to the ubuntu-doc ml, copying the manual ml
<j1mc> just wanted to check-in here first.
<j1mc> thanks, all. :)
<semioticrobotic> j1mc: Makes perfect sense, and I agree.  I know "making our own tools" is a core component of the team's ethos, but in this we might be best served by something already in place (that we can modify)
<nisshh> j1mc: no need to check-in with us, just go ahead and post suggestions
<daker> dutchie, ping
<dutchie> daker: pong
<daker> for the bugs reported with the bug form, it would be nice if you tags them bug "Bug reporter" or something like that
<dutchie> ok
<dutchie> will do
<daker> also if you can add filed that can show the status on the website
<daker> if it possible
<daker> it's
<dutchie> so you press the "report" button, and get sent to a "Bug filed" page on bugs.u-m.o?
<daker> no just on the list of bugs add a filed that can show the status of the bug
<dutchie> oh, field
<dutchie> on our website?
<daker> yes
<dutchie> where?
<daker> on the bugs details people should see the progress of the bug
<dutchie> there isn't a bug detail page yet :)
<daker> in other way add field in models.py
<daker> for the status
<daker> there is lang, rev, page, email... then status of the bug
<dutchie> if i was to get the status, i'd just fetch it from LP, not save it in the DB
<daker> why not adding a crontab that can fetch bugs from lp then update the db ?
<dutchie> tagging implemented and pushe
<dutchie> not needed
<daker> cool oki
<thorwil> c7p: just read your mail. you're welcome!
<thorwil> godbyk: so lulu_el.svg is ready. shall i add a pdf export to the branch?
<c7p> thorwil: :)
<godbyk-sagan> thorwil: yeah, that'd be great! thanks!
<godbyk-sagan> thorwil: I just noticed this TeX package, too.  It may be helpful in the future: http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/svg-inkscape/InkscapePDFLaTeX.pdf
<godbyk-sagan> thorwil: It allows us to basically run an Inkscape SVG through LaTeX (to let LaTeX handle the text work).
<thorwil> godbyk-sagan: you just noticed? i vaguely recall pasting you a link to that, taken from an inkscape mailing list ;)
<godbyk-sagan> thorwil: ah, yeah. just noticed. i found the posting to comp.text.tex. it was posted eons ago.
<godbyk-sagan> i'm pretty far behind. :)
<godbyk-sagan> not sure if it'd be a help with the title pages and covers or not.
<godbyk-sagan> we'd get the hyphenation for free (which is nice).
<godbyk-sagan> I don't know how much tweaking is required to make the title pages look awesome.
<thorwil> i really need immediate visual feedback
<thorwil> lulu_el.pdf pushed
<jenkins> can every one please run ls /proc/modules and pastebin it please. I need to try and work out your graphics driver
<dutchie> jenkins: http://pastebin.com/iWFv5SNt
<dutchie> itym cat /proc/modules :)
<dutchie> http://pastebin.com/Gi294kPa
<thorwil> http://pastebin.com/RauudWWn
<jenkins> yea i ment cat /proc/modules, do you have an intel dutchie?
<dutchie> yes
<dutchie> GMA 500 iirc
<thorwil> too bad there is no "dog" command
<jenkins> thorwil: nvidia propretry driver?
<godbyk-sagan> jenkins: http://pastebin.com/hfw99BS5
<godbyk-sagan> I'm running the nvidia module.
<thorwil> jenkins: yes, the seed of darkness poisoning my system from within ^^
<jenkins> can you also do ls  /sys/module/ please
<godbyk-sagan> jenkins: http://pastebin.com/8zyafhPx /sys/module/
<dutchie> http://pastebin.com/ZRGgqZCP /sys/module/
<jenkins> has anyone got a pc with two diffrent graphics cards?
<zkriesse> nope
<thorwil> jenkins: http://pastebin.com/je2Fdnjm
<godbyk-sagan> nope.
<thorwil> nope
<daker> jenkins, http://pastebin.org/383924
<jenkins> daker what are you using?
<daker> using what ??
<jenkins> graphics driver
<daker> daker@daker-desktop:~$ lspci | grep VGA
<daker> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE Chipset Integrated Graphics Device (rev 01)
<jenkins> o yea now i see it daker
<jenkins> thanks everyone
<jenkins> anyone using ati?
<semioticrobotic> anyone here an exert on AMD systems and their compatibility with Ubuntu?
<thorwil> good night!
<jenkins> if i run cat /proc/modules part of the output contains lots of parts like 0xffffffffa010d000 . can i use this to find out more information about the device?
<zkriesse> hello fellow manual-ers
<jenkins> hey zkriesse
<daker> jenkins, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1273767&highlight=beginners+guide+ati+linux+drivers
<jenkins> thanks d
<jenkins> * daker
<jenkins> yey quickshot has made revision 250 today
<jenkins> flan: we need to either bundle disper with quickshot or find another way to handle nvidia twin view. for ubuntu and any packages we make we can just add it as a dependency but for other linux distros we cant
<jenkins> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-07-06
<phillw> Hi, is the french version of the manual completed yet?
<godbyk-sagan> phillw: Not much of it has been translated yet, unfortunately.  https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<phillw> ahh, okies. I'm chatting to someone who has pretty good english, but he's not too sure as to how to help. I'm just going through setting up a launchpad account with him.
<godbyk-sagan> Ah, I see.  Well, if you or he would like to dive in and help out with the French translation, that's a great way to start.
<phillw> shame, he does not feel confident enough to translate.
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: are you there?
<nisshh> godbyk: ping
<nisshh> godbyk-android: ping
<nisshh> darn it, why is everyone asleep when im not :)
<zkriesse> hey nisshh
<nisshh> zkriesse: HEY
<nisshh> oops, stupid caps lock
<zkriesse> lol
<zkriesse> you're not alone!!!
<zkriesse> lol
<nisshh> lol
<nisshh> im waiting for both godbyk and humphreybc to get up
<zkriesse> ah
<zkriesse> it's one am for me
<nisshh> hehe, looks like ill be waiting a while too
<nisshh> yea its lunch time here for me
<zkriesse> ah cool
<nisshh> itll be evening for humphreybc
<nisshh> i have some important news for them
<nisshh> zkriesse: if you stick around you can hear it too
<zkriesse> tell me now!
 * zkriesse loves news
<nisshh> well, i want to but this way it saves me having to tell the story twice or more
<zkriesse> oh
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> iv been waiting for humphreybc since 2am last night, but he must be busy doing something else
<nisshh> should fly over to NZ and slap him
<nisshh> :)
<zkriesse> lol
<nisshh> humphreybc: yay, iv been waiting for hours for you to get on
<humphreybc> oh hi nisshh
<humphreybc> Mum is down for a couple of days so I've been hanging out with her
<nisshh> humphreybc: oh yea
<nisshh> listen i have some news
<humphreybc> ok
<humphreybc> shoot
<nisshh> iv taken over from rick as head of the dev manual
<humphreybc> he3h
<humphreybc> two secs
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> humphreybc: im now writing the whole thing myself and am using rick and the other authors as mentors
<humphreybc1> hi
<nisshh> hey
<nisshh> that your netbook or whatever
<humphreybc1> yas
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> so as i was saying, iv taken over lead of the dev manual from Rick
<humphreybc1> yep
<nisshh> ill be writing the manual myself, although anyone can contribute, make suggestions
<nisshh> iv done this for two reasons
<nisshh> 1) i havent got much to do on THE ubuntu manual since my chapter is getting dropped
<nisshh> 2) Rick doesnt have the time to drive the project, so i said why not
<nisshh> humphreybc1: so, what do you think?
<humphreybc1> sounds good
<nisshh> you dont sound very surprised?
<nisshh> Rick was like: "HOLY CRAP YOUR A FRIGGING HERO MAN!"
<humphreybc1> haha
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc1> good luck though
<nisshh> thanks :)
<humphreybc1> man i am so tired
<humphreybc1> gotta stay up for a bit, membership meeting at 10
<nisshh> oh yea, ill be there
<nisshh> im your cheer squad remember?
<nisshh> humphreybc1: so, iv started working on the dev manual today, using some of Ricks already existing stuff
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> gotta take my mini to bits now
<nisshh> ok, have fun :)
<nisshh> humphreybc: isnt it brand new?
<humphreybc> http://twitter.com/humphreybc/status/17853671563
<nisshh> humphreybc: smooth, real smooth
<nisshh> my question is, how did you get it IN int he first place?
<humphreybc> well it's smaller than the slot
<humphreybc> so it just dropped in, and then went all the way to the back
<nisshh> meh
<nisshh> humphreybc: how long until your membership meeting?
<humphreybc> 1:15
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> in #ubuntu-meeting right?
<humphreybc> yea
<nisshh> ok
<thorwil> humphreybc: i'd add a testimonial, but you have so many already and i don't want to repeat what has been said already ;)
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> thorwil: if you're around at 1000 UTC I'd appreciate your support in #ubuntu-meeting :)
<nisshh> thorwil: just say that humphreybc is "different"
<thorwil> lol
<humphreybc> that didn't sound good
<nisshh> humphreybc: i meant "different" in a good way :)
<zkriesse> humphreybc: going for ubuntu membership?
<nisshh> zkriesse: he is
<zkriesse> humphreybc: want my support?
<nisshh> zkriesse: in less than an hour
<nisshh> zkriesse: i think he is afk, you can come if you want
<zkriesse> of course i can
<nisshh> lol
<jenkins> morning eveyone
<thorwil> morning!
<humphreybc> i be here now
<humphreybc> managed to get the thing out of my netbook
<humphreybc> only lost a couple of things
<jenkins> hello humphreybc
<humphreybc> yo
<jenkins> when are the planned release date for lucid-e2?
<humphreybc> 29th of this month
<jenkins> ok thanks
<humphreybc> strange, #ubuntu-meething doesn't seem to be a channel
<jenkins> take the h out
<humphreybc> i know, i know
<humphreybc> it was a joke
<jenkins> lol
<jenkins> when have we got to release the mavrick edition the the translators?
<jenkins> we said we would give them at least a month
<jenkins> can you do ls /sys/module/  and cat /proc/modules, and pastebin the outputs please humphreybc
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> one sec
<humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/459758/
<jenkins> thanks
<jenkins> ati radeon driver?
<humphreybc> indeed
<jenkins> good this is working
<zkriesse> hey humphreybc
<humphreybc> hey Zach
<zkriesse> humphreybc: i'll be supporting you in meeting
<humphreybc> hooray!
<jenkins> what meeting?
<zkriesse> jenkins: ubuntu membership
<jenkins> o cool
<nisshh> started
<humphreybc> indeed
<jenkins> what channel?
<nisshh> #ubuntu-meeting
<jenkins> just so i can see what it is like if you don't mind
<nisshh> hurry
<zkriesse> jenkins: you're not a mem yet?
<jenkins> nope, on the list of things to do
<nisshh> same with me
<zkriesse> oh cool
<humphreybc> Well that was nice, thanks for supporting me team :)
<jenkins> nisshh: if you want a hand with some writing for the dev manual i can see where I can help
<zkriesse> yup humphreybc
<jenkins> np humphreybc
<nisshh> jenkins: sure, im planning on writing most of it myself but if you feel the need go ahead
 * nisshh slaps humphreybc 
<nisshh> how dare you get membership before me! :)
<humphreybc> hah
<humphreybc> haha*
<jenkins> I can see what I can do, what are we planing to cover
<humphreybc> nisshh: you'll get there
<thorwil> damn, i forgot to mention that humphreybc is different!
<nisshh> humphreybc: yea, eventuallty
<zkriesse> nisshh: it takes time
<nisshh> thorwil: haha
<humphreybc> thorwil: there's still time!
<nisshh> zkriesse: yea
<humphreybc> thorwil: are you going to apply for UDS sponsorship?
<nisshh> jenkins: hang on ill get you a link
<vish> thorwil: lets do it!
<thorwil> humphreybc: i didn't even think of the next UDS, so far
<vish> humphreybc: he went for L and ...
<humphreybc> vish, well you have to be there, we haven't had a proper chat yet
<nisshh> jenkins: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/DeveloperManual
<nisshh> thats not exactly up to date, but it shows the topics
<humphreybc> nisshh: you're doing it in latex?
<humphreybc> odt
<humphreybc> boo
<zkriesse> hey humphreybc we need to edit your wiki dog
<humphreybc> you'll have to change that
<nisshh> humphreybc: Rick nicked some code from the manual
<humphreybc> zkriesse: hmm?
<zkriesse> humphreybc: the sections need some updating
<humphreybc> my wiki page?
<zkriesse> humphreybc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/zkriesse for example
<humphreybc> woah
<humphreybc> intense
<humphreybc> I updated it recently
<humphreybc> I normally use http://interesting.co.nz
<zkriesse> sorry...im huge when it comes to wiki
 * zkriesse 's wiki fu is off the charts
<jenkins> nisshh: 3 chapters are done looking at the links there. I can do quickly but so can you
<jenkins> we can both do Distributing your Application and the Tools sections
<nisshh> jenkins: yea, if you look closely though, those chapters that rick did are old, what we are going to do is to base the manual around writing your own app
<nisshh> jenkins: really what i want to do for now is to sort out what is and isnt relevant in the already created chapter, check out this sample app, and get all the right code onto lp
<jenkins> yep, have we got the sample ap sorted yet? i know it was made a suggestion
<c7p> when do we have meeting?
<nisshh> jenkins: sort of, here are some more links:
<nisshh> jenkins: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nisshh/ubuntu-developer-manual/udm-sample-app https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nisshh/ubuntu-developer-manual/ubuntu-developer-manual
<nisshh> thats current as-of-today code
<nisshh> does anyone think iv done even remotely enough to apply for membership: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RyanMacnish
<nisshh> be honest
<jenkins> can we make a trunk branch out of all the stuff we have so far?
<jenkins> we appear to have a bunch of personal branches
<nisshh> jenkins: well, i dont want to put the app in with the manual code
<jenkins> o no make a trunk under that project page
<nisshh> jenkins: thats intentional, Rick hasnt given me permissions to edit the trunk branch yet, he has been busy
<jenkins> i think the wiki page needs more detail
<jenkins> nisshh: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-developer-manual?field.lifecycle=ALL there is no trunk
<nisshh> jenkins: i know
<nisshh> jenkins: my plan is to sort it out first then ill chuch it in trunk
<jenkins> ok cool
<jenkins> well let me know what you want me to help with
<nisshh> jenkins: sure, ill probably have it sorted out by tomorrow, ill talk to you then
<jenkins> sounds like a plan to me
<nisshh> cool :)
<jenkins> which bot deals with meetings?
<jenkins> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:42. The chair is jenkins.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jenkins> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:42.
<jenkins> mootbot :)
<nisshh> humphreybc: could you give me a testimonial on my wiki page?
<zkriesse> nisshh: I would but i don't know you as well as i'd like
<humphreybc> nisshh: sure thing
<nisshh> zkriesse: sure, maybe do it once you know me better
<nisshh> humphreybc: thanks
<zkriesse> nisshh: yeah
<jenkins> humphreybc: are we having a meeting on sat? if not can i have the collaboration meeting here at 8pm utc? ubuntu-meeting is booked
<humphreybc> we can have a meeting on sat
<jenkins> colaberation meeting or manual meeting?
<jenkins> I have another channel that i can ask to use
<jenkins> humphreybc: ?
<humphreybc> sorry
<humphreybc> Whatever you want to do, we need a manual meeting
<humphreybc> the collaboration meetings have so far proved futile
<jenkins> I will use here as i would rather as many people as possible attend, rather than people trying to be in two places at once
<humphreybc> jenkins: go for it
<humphreybc> my channel, your channel, our channel :)
<humphreybc> did I get an exciting cloak?
<d0od> Erm. Non.
<nisshh> thats SO hardcore :)
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> nisshh: did you see it then?
<jenkins> yes i saw it
<nisshh> humphreybc: yes
<d0od> I didn't. Boooo.
<humphreybc> paste it for d0od then
<humphreybc> haha
<d0od> This iRC sucks.
<d0od> :P
<jenkins> ) humphreybc [~benjamin@ubuntu/member/humphreybc] entered the room.
<d0od> awwwh :D
<nisshh> yea
<jenkins> meeting e-mail sent
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> humphreybc: you can chuch your testimonial up on my wiki page now if you like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RyanMacnish
<humphreybc> nisshh: will do
<nisshh> thanks
<vish> humphreybc: !!!!!!!
<vish> oops!
<nisshh> humphreybc: thanks for that testimonial
<humphreybc> nisshh: no worries, first time I've done one... hope it's okay.
<nisshh> humphreybc: thats perfect, i just need to start collecting some for when i eventually apply for membership
<humphreybc> sure
<nisshh> :)
<flan> jenkins, is it really necessary that we handle TwinView stuff? What would happen if Disper simply weren't used at all?
<flan> (I'm not objecting to it. I'm just wondering if we can consider it a recommended package instead of a dependency)
<jenkins> people would have to change their resolution themselves
<jenkins> I am going to have a look at the disper code, and see how it does it to see if we can implement it ourselves
<flan> But that means it is possible to change resolutions without it, right?
<jenkins> only if the user clicks system > admin.. > nvidia server settings
<jenkins> xrandr works for nvidia but not in twin view
<flan> Oh...
<flan> How common is TwinView? It's the desktop-mirroring system, right?
<jenkins> its using two screens next to each other, anyone with nvidia and two screens uses it. I do godbyk does. nvidia is popular i asked for lshw outputs on the forums last release and lots of them were nvidia
<flan> I use nVidia, too.
<flan> I just thought TwinView was something else.
<jenkins> I can't decide what to do, i can't find who the devloper is on irc
<flan> What language is its code in?
<flan> If it's C and we can't figure out how to clone its behaviour in Python, I can write an importable module that we could include with the client.
<flan> (With the catch that it would need to be compiled for each target architecture)
<jenkins> python bzr branch Â lp:disperÂ 
<flan> (But a simple build script would handle that)
<flan> Weird... Bazaar doesn't use optparse.
<flan> It's whitespace-sensitive.
<jenkins> there are a lot of files in the the source
<flan> I'll take a look at them later. As long as it's Python, though, we shouldn't have any trouble.
 * flan has to get something working for work soon.
<jenkins> have fun flan :)
<flan> It's Python, so that's possible. =P
<jenkins> yep thats what i thought
<jenkins> I will have a look once i have looked at jockey
<flan> So do other distributions simply lack a 'disper' package?
<jenkins> there is an arch package
<jenkins> but otherwise its a tar.gz
<flan> Ah. Okay, then, yeah, we should find out what the minimal necessary code-set is and fork that into our codebase, then subscribe to disper's lists and keep things in sync.
<flan> Which is probably what you had in mind.
<jenkins> indeed
<jenkins> evening all
<jenkins> flan: ping
<trijntje> Hi all, should lucid-e1 or lucid-e2 be translated? I've been translation-off for a while
<thorwil> trijntje: for all i know, lucid-e2 isn't ready for translation
<thorwil> godbyk: i completely failed to even think about spine width for the greek lulu cover ...
<trijntje> thorwil, ok, thanks a lot
<thorwil> godbyk: in fact, i just used lulu_en.svg as template. wasn't that lulu's approximation of letter, where we would go for a4 for other languages?
 * jenkins is trying to write apport rules for quickshot
<flan> jenkins, pong, but only to let you know I'll be unavailable for the next hour or so.
<jenkins> ok cool no worries flan
<flan> I've got five minutes.
<flan> 'Sup?
<jenkins> how do i make the log files start a new one each time I load quickshot i have this so far but it does it as per size
<flan> Using the logging module?
<jenkins> http://pastebin.com/wjQsb82i
<jenkins> yep using that module I can't work out how to chnage it each launch. I have three log files that work in rotaion as per size not as per launch
<flan> Set mode='w'.
<flan> By default, it's 'a' for 'append'.
<jenkins> that does not work, it appers to clean the file out and starts at the begining of it
<flan> Isn't that what you want?
<flan> Oh.
<flan> Oh, I think I know what you're getting at.
<flan> You want to retain logs from the two previous runs.
<jenkins> yes
<jenkins> there was a good reason but i can't recall
<flan> There's a good reasonf or retaining one previous instance. Two may be a bit much, but it won't hurt anything.
<flan> I'd suggest doing this by hand with the FileHandler.
<flan> Just manually rotate them when the process starts.
<jenkins> that was my next idea, i will add that after finishing apport
<flan> Using os.path.isfile() to determine whether all three files already exist or not.
<jenkins> thanks have a good day
<flan> And os.rename() to move them in reverse order.
<flan> (Check if 2 exists; if so, move it to 3; check if 1 exists; if so, move it to 2; open 1 for writing)
<flan> (And make it use a constant value so you can increase the total easily)
<flan> (Again, I'm sure you were thinking of this. I'm just a neurotic control-freak)
<jenkins> hehe I was thinking it :)
<flan> I just signed out of Gmail to sign in with the same account.
 * flan facepalms.
<jenkins> lol
<c7p> godbyk: ping
 * jenkins files the first quickshot apport bug
 * jenkins also apologies for the spam he may give to the team
<jenkins> flan: when you are back https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/602429
<jenkins> yey \o/ apport stuff done
<dutchie> evening
<jenkins> hello dutchie
<dutchie> so close to freedom
<jenkins> from what?
<dutchie> schoo;
<dutchie> school*
<jenkins> o yea i forgot you had school still, how many weeks left?
<dutchie> well, "school" is an overstatement
<dutchie> i've been on exam leave since end of may
<dutchie> but all the end of term/end of year stuff is on thursday
<jenkins> wow that quite close, down here they don't finish until about 2 weeks
<dutchie> posh school though
<jenkins> that makes more sense :)
<jenkins> dutchie: can you point out why this while loop is not renaming the files http://paste.pocoo.org/show/234338/ ? I work when i run the line 4 my self.
<jenkins> ok well the while loop should be i >=1
<jenkins> but that does not fix ir
<dutchie> i = 3 at the top?
<dutchie> the loop body is never run
<dutchie> ah
<dutchie> don't bother with the == "True"
<dutchie> two reasons
<flan> Awesome, jenkins. :)
<dutchie> 1) It should be == True without the quotes
<dutchie> 2) don't test for equality with True in an if statement
<flan> What dutchie said.
<flan> See PEP 8.
<jenkins> thanks now it looks like it works
<flan> i's a bad constant, but I'm assuming you're doing this as proof-of-concept.
<jenkins> yep
<jenkins> I got could not be bothered to type anything else
<jenkins> have you seen the apport bug?
<dutchie> jenkins: probably do logfile = os.path.abspath(".quickshot/logs/quickshot" + str(i-1) + ".log")
<jenkins> makes sense dutchie
<jenkins> hello humphreybc
<humphreybc> morning Luke
 * dutchie notices an ubuntu/member cloak on humphreybc 
<dutchie> congrats
<humphreybc> dutchie: danke
<godbyk> finally back home.  yay! :)
<humphreybc> godbyk: now the real fun starts
<godbyk> humphreybc: congrats on your new membership!
<zkriesse> hey humphreybc
<humphreybc> thanks Kev
<humphreybc> Hi sk
<humphreybc> tab fail
<humphreybc> zkriesse:
<humphreybc> Man I am soo tired. Went to bed at around 2am, got up at 6 to watch the football
<humphreybc> had about 10 hours sleep in the last couple of days. blergh.
<zkriesse> lol
<ChrisWoollard> Just out of interest. How busy has it been here since the football / tennis has been one?
<humphreybc> here, as in, in this channel?
<ChrisWoollard> yes
<humphreybc> it's been fairly quiet, but I think for other reasons
<flan> jenkins, I added my version at http://paste.pocoo.org/show/234343/, if you want to compare what you end up with afterwards.
<humphreybc> everyone has been busy with real life
<flan> (There are a few correct ways to do this)
<ChrisWoollard> I know the feeling.
<humphreybc> but today should be semi-productive
<jenkins> flan: wow your way looks better
<humphreybc> godbyk: so do you have time to get some translations out now?
<humphreybc> godbyk: not to be mean or anything.... :P
<godbyk> humphreybc: I'm going to try.
<humphreybc> hooray
<godbyk> humphreybc: I have to run experiments all day at work tomorrow.
<flan> My way's naive. There's room for improvement.
<flan> (Though the efficiency gains may not be worth the readability tradeoff)
<godbyk> But I think we're pretty much ready for the Greek translation.
<godbyk> I have to fix a bug with the glossary stuff.
<godbyk> And get thorwil some info for the wrap-around cover.
<humphreybc> excellent
<flan> Also, this should be try-catched, on IOError.
<flan> Or OSError. Or both.
<flan> Probably with the same handler.
<flan> I can't remember whether .rename() throws IOError or OSError.
<dutchie> raises :)
<dutchie> this is python, not java
<flan> I had to write stuff for Mono an hour ago. Lemme alone. :(
<jenkins> it does not error but, if you don't remove the last file first it does not move them correctly
<jenkins> so i added a line
<flan> os.unlink()?
<flan> That doesn't seem like it should be necessary.
<jenkins> os.remove
<flan> Same thing. =P
<jenkins> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/collaborationmeeting don't forget to attend the meeting
 * flan likes unlink() 'cause it has a cooler name.
<flan> Do you want me there?
<dutchie> flan: and it's more old-school unix
<flan> And it's what we're all use to.
<flan> used*
<jenkins> flan: up to you just telling the channel, the more the merrier
<flan> I was planning to lurk.
<zkriesse> wait thats at 3 am my time
<dutchie> ok, bedtime
<dutchie> night all
<jenkins> night dutchie
<flan> G'night~
<godbyk> brb. going to reboot.
 * flan goes home.
<jenkins> humphreybc: quickshot has apport support now
<humphreybc> jenkins: that's pretty sweet
<jenkins> its fun :) now our bug reports will be easy to do. Its very easy to do once you know how
<c7p> hey godbyk
<jenkins> is there a python equivalent to lsb_release -i ?
<godbyk> Hey, c7p.
<c7p> i sent you a mail about a bug i found ok the greek manual
<c7p> on*
<godbyk> I saw that. I screwed up on the \ie and \eg thing?
<c7p> idk
<c7p> check if the translations I sent you correspond to
<godbyk> Can you point me at a page number where you see the problem?
<godbyk> In my um-greek.clo file, I have the following two lines:
<godbyk> \renewcommand{\ie}{Ï.\kern0.5pt Ï.\xspace}
<godbyk> \renewcommand{\eg}{Î´Î·Î».\xspace}
<c7p> yap
<godbyk> (The \kern0.5pt just adds a bit of extra space between the period and the chi.)
<c7p> \renewcommand{\eg}{Ï.\kern0.5pt Ï.\xspace}
<c7p> \renewcommand{\ie}{Î´Î·Î».\xspace}
<c7p> that's how they should be
<godbyk> are those two lines you just gave me different from what I pasted?
<c7p> yes, for example where there is /eg on tex on the pdf there is i.e
<godbyk> oh!
<c7p> well i.e in greek of course
<godbyk> so I just have the \eg and \ie flipped around?
<c7p> yes :)
<godbyk> ha! oops.  sorry about that.
<godbyk> easy fix!
<c7p> np
<c7p> yes
<godbyk> can you email me your latest ubuntu-manual-el.tex file?
<c7p> sure
<godbyk> jenkins emailed me a copy while I was away, but I don't know if it's the latest.
<godbyk> then I'll snag the other translations from launchpad and run the build script.
<godbyk> I also need to double-check the build script and make sure it's doing the same thing as the makefile.
<godbyk> We think the glossary page numbers work out okay when we run 'make ubuntu-manual-el.pdf' but not with my build script, right?
<c7p> yes
<godbyk> (I may just compile everything with make and then have the script upload the files. that'd probably simplify things and make it so I don't have to write changes twice.)
<godbyk> okay
<c7p> another minor bug that i found if you can help with before i send you the file
<godbyk> "Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance in six minutes."  I hope it emails me the translations first. :-)
<godbyk> sure thing.
<c7p> :P hehe
<c7p> well here we have the \section{Î ÎµÏÎ¹Î·Î³Î·ÏÎ®Ï Î±ÏÏÎµÎ¯ÏÎ½ ÎÎ±ÏÏÎ¯Î»Î¿Ï (Nautilus)}
<godbyk> c7p: oh, and one I noticed the other day, if you could fix it while you're at it:  on the copyright page, you have "To \noindent\textit{\plaintitle}..." for a couple lines.  Move the \noindent command to the beginning of the line:  "\noindent To \textit{\plaintitle}..." in both cases.
<godbyk> okay, I found that line in the file.
<c7p> there is this link \seclink{sec:nautilus} that reffers to that section
<c7p> instead of the "Î ÎµÏÎ¹Î·Î³Î·ÏÎ®Ï Î±ÏÏÎµÎ¯ÏÎ½ ÎÎ±ÏÏÎ¯Î»Î¿Ï (Nautilus)" I want to have a little bit altered text on \seclink{sec:nautilus}
<c7p> what can i do?
<godbyk> Hmm..
<godbyk> Well, you can't use the \seclink command.  You'll have to use the other linking commands.
<godbyk> Something like:
<c7p> in other words i'm looking sth relevant to \glslink{server}{Î´Î¹Î±ÎºÎ¿Î¼Î¹ÏÏÎ®}
<c7p> *\glslink{glo. entry}{text on pdf}
#ubuntu-manual 2010-07-07
<godbyk> \hyperref[sec:nautilus]{Î ÎµÏÎ¹Î·Î³Î·ÏÎ® Î±ÏÏÎµÎ¯ÏÎ½ ÎÎ±ÏÏÎ¯Î»Î¿} should work.
<godbyk> So 'sec:nautilus' is the section to link to and 'Î ÎµÏÎ¹Î·Î³Î·ÏÎ® Î±ÏÏÎµÎ¯ÏÎ½ ÎÎ±ÏÏÎ¯Î»Î¿' is the text that will be the link (colored, clickable, etc.)
<c7p> thx godbyk :)
<godbyk> np
<godbyk> there's usually a way to do anything you want in latex.. it's just a matter of finding the trick. :-)
<c7p> btw how was the latex conference ?
<godbyk> It was awesome!
<godbyk> I had a great time.
<c7p> nice to hear that
<godbyk> Got to chat with Don Knuth for a few minutes and even had him sign the book I won as a door prize. :)
<godbyk> (Don Knuth is the guy who wrote TeX back in 1978.)
<c7p> you are honored :P
<c7p> is it ok http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/460013/?
<c7p> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/460013/ *
<godbyk> c7p: Yep, that's better.  Thanks!
<c7p> np
<c7p> the extra spaces at "\noindent   Î¤Î¿ " will affect the text on pdf?
<godbyk> Nope, it won't have any effect.
<godbyk> brb
<godbyk> back
<c7p> nice
<c7p> what else do we have to do for the greek manual ?
<c7p> godbyk: greek tex file sent
<godbyk> c7p: thanks
<c7p> np
<godbyk> Once I get the glossary stuff fixed I think that about covers everything.
<godbyk> I'll look at our list again to double-check.
<c7p> great
<godbyk> Is there anything else that you think we need to do?
<godbyk> Once I make the final PDF, I'll have you guys look at it to make sure it's all okay.
<c7p> good idea
<godbyk> Then I'll give thorwil the page count and dimensions of the cover so he can finish that.
<godbyk> Then we should be ready, I think.
<c7p> finally :P
<godbyk> If Launchpad would ever come back online, I'd build all the translations again. :-/
<godbyk> c7p: I know!
<c7p> hehe
<godbyk> c7p: Thanks for putting up with me and my slowness. :-)
<godbyk> Hopefully the other translations will go more smoothly now that we have a slightly better idea of what we're doing. :)
<c7p> np you did what you could and you still do
<c7p> yap
<c7p> good night/morning/evening all
<jenkins> godbyk: how much have you looked into doc book to latex?
<daker> humphreybc: where is my design ?
<godbyk> jenkins: not too much, but I think that docbook -> latex -> pdf is the normal path to generate pdf from docbook.
<j1mc> actually, it's more docbook > xsl-fo > fop
<j1mc> fop creates the pdf output
<godbyk> and how does fop generate a pdf?
<jenkins> godbyk: I tried a file for the ubuntu translators guide, it worked ok but dblatex added some custom stuff. we need to find a way to stop it doing that.
<j1mc> godbyk: i don't have much experience with it, really.
<godbyk> I found this http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/FOP which leads to http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/
<j1mc> i do know that the pdf output isn't great.  latex pdf output is much, much better
<godbyk> In any case, I think going from docbook to latex to pdf will be easy enough.
<j1mc> there is the proprietary "renderx" which does docbook -> pdf output.  opensuse uses that for their pdf's.
<godbyk> yeah, we'll want to make sure the output uses our styles and not the ultra-lame default styles (which are just ugly as all get-out!)
<godbyk> plus, having an intermediate .tex file means we can do any nit-picky typographic tweaking we want before generating the final pdf.
<j1mc> did you all see this? http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/07/06/weve-packaged-all-of-the-free-software-what-now/
<jenkins> I *think* dblatex allows you to create custom styles
<godbyk> (and you know how I love nit-picky typographic tweaking!)
<jenkins> http://dblatex.sourceforge.net/ is the docs page
<godbyk> I just clicked on their Docbook example.. <shudder>
<godbyk> whee! launchpad is back up.
<jenkins> godbyk: are you able to spare some python knolegdge and get http://pastebin.com/SWn91Dkh to print "yey ubuntu" please
<godbyk> jenkins: sure. one moment.
<godbyk> jenkins: the "if 'Ubuntu' in content' line should use 'str(content)' instead of 'content') then it'll work.
<godbyk> otherwise, it checks to see if one element in the list 'content' is equal to 'Ubuntu'
<jenkins> thanks, i would not have thought of that
<godbyk> np
<godbyk> jenkins: y'know, the lsb_release command is a python script.
<godbyk> jenkins: would be easier (cleaner) to 'import lsb_release' and get the info through there.
<godbyk> import lsb_release
<jenkins> I asked in #python and told it did not exist. I wll change it
<godbyk> distinfo = lsb_release.get_distro_information()
<godbyk> id = distinfo.get('ID', 'n/a')
<godbyk> print id
<godbyk> (or something like that.)
<jenkins> is that module also there on other distros?
<godbyk> absolutely no idea.
<godbyk> let me check red hat real quick
<j1mc> i think fedora does it differently.
<godbyk> red hat uses a bash script
<jenkins> does the lsb_release (in bash) still work in fedora/redhat?
<godbyk> it's looking in /etc/lsb-release for info
<godbyk> jenkins: yeah, red hat does it completely different.
<godbyk> so it looks like checking the lsb-release output is best.
<godbyk> er, lsb_release, rather.
<jenkins> ok thanks i will stick with that then
<daker> jenkins: http://refspecs.freestandards.org/LSB_3.1.0/LSB-Core-generic/LSB-Core-generic/lsbrelease.html
<godbyk> jenkins: for what it's worth:
<godbyk> $ lsb_release -i
<godbyk> Distributor ID:	RedHatEnterpriseClient
<godbyk> $ cat /etc/redhat-release
<godbyk> Red Hat Enterprise Linux Client release 5.5 (Tikanga)
<jenkins> thanks godbyk and daker
<daker> jenkins: http://bugs.python.org/issue1322
<jenkins> thanks daker it appears the bash command is avalible but python has some idduse using its equivlent
<daker> yes
<godbyk> Any translators in here?
<jenkins> yes I do english usa to english uk :P
<godbyk> jenkins: heh.  well, did the uk translation status change much in the past couple hours?
<godbyk> I just got a notice from launchpad that a new translation template was imported.
<godbyk> and I want to know if it marked previously-translated strings as needs-translated again.
<jenkins> no if you look at the page and sort by last chnaged it was 6 hours ago on danish
<godbyk> jenkins: yeah, I don't know that it modifies that timestamp.
<godbyk> what happens is that some of the translated strings get flagged as suggestions.
<jenkins> o well english uk is 100% still
<godbyk> and the translators have to go through and approve the suggestions again.
<jenkins> yea i am aware of the bug
<godbyk> okay
<godbyk> just making sure it's not wreaking havoc again.
<godbyk> (wish they'd get it fixed already. it gives me such a headache.)
<jenkins> I think it gives us all a headache
 * jenkins is trying to work out how to write gtk menus manualy
 * godbyk is trying to walk someone through fixing his messed up svn working directory.
<daker> jenkins: menu = gtk.Menu()
<daker> item = gtk.MenuItem(''BlaBlaBla)
<daker> menu.append(item)
<jenkins> thanks daker, what about making each item do something?
<daker> item.connect("clicked", self.do_somthing)
<jenkins> ok thanks
<daker> menu.show_all()
 * jenkins goes an plays
<godbyk> brb
<h00k> yes
<h00k> tis me.
<h00k> in the wrong channel.
<daker> humphreybc: have you finished the design ?
<humphreybc> almost, just waiting on some pictograms
<humphreybc> daker: did you update the planet?
<daker> not yet :)
<daker> why do you asked that ? are you going to change them ?
<humphreybc> no but I sent you an updated PSD file with some changes
<daker> humphreybc, the interview is really awesome
<humphreybc> which interview?
<daker> ubuntu-uk
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> thanks
<daker> it means that you have made a lot of interviews ?
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> yes i've done a few
<humphreybc> daker: so you're still working on planet.ubuntu-manual.org?
<nisshh> omfg, we have a support leecher in our loco channel
<nisshh> urh, 2 support leechers now
<vish> nisshh: hmm??
<vish> support?
<vish> nisshh: nvm , i missed the "loco" part of your line :)
<nisshh> vish: meh, yea we keep getting people from other countries trying to bum support off of us
<vish> nisshh: hehe, you guys must be too welcoming ;)
<nisshh> we have to keep kickbanning them
<nisshh> vish: lol, no i dont know why we seem to get alot of them, they must get kicked out of their own loco channel or something
<vish> nisshh: alot ?  > http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
<vish> :p
<nisshh> vish: oh, haha
<jenkins> morning!
<thorwil> o/
<nisshh> jenkins: hey, i have sorted out the permissions stuff with Rick, do you still want to help me out and write a chapter?
<jenkins> yea please nisshh
<nisshh> jenkins: ok, can you join the team: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-developer-manual
<nisshh> and subscribe to the mailing list
<jenkins> done
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> ok, your approved
<jenkins> thanks
<jenkins> just let me know what i can do
<nisshh> jenkins: you know that wiki page i gave you yesterday that lists all the chapters?
<jenkins> yep
<nisshh> pick one of the chapters you want to work on
<nisshh> that can be your one
<nisshh> unless you want to do more than one of course
<nisshh> :)
<jenkins> they all have people by them. are those people still doing them?
<nisshh> jenkins: well, iv had a chat with aquarius, rick and didrocks, and they all agreed that if i/we/people wrote the chapters they would be happy to "mentor" us and make suggestions since they know what they are talking about
<nisshh> jenkins: one of the main reasons i took this on is because they all also work on maverick, so they have very little time to spare for the manual
<jenkins> ok thats cool, I can do Creating an application with Quickly or Building a User Interface with glade or both, I don't know what you had your eye on. there are others i can help with
<nisshh> jenkins: i was going to do all of them anyway so go ahead and pick whatever you want, im not fussed
<nisshh> whatever is easiest for you
<jenkins> also what is the state of the app that we are doing for it. I will do both then
<nisshh> jenkins: ok cool
<nisshh> jenkins: i have a branch of the sample app on lp, gimme a sec
<nisshh> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nisshh/ubuntu-developer-manual/udm-sample-app
<nisshh> there
<jenkins> I was thinking we should create the app, and leave it in lots of stages in the branch so a folder for each stage.
<nisshh> currently you cant run that app
<nisshh> jenkins: not bad thinking
<nisshh> jenkins: we would want it to be runnable and useable at each stage though
<nisshh> jenkins: its a little identi.ca reader
<jenkins> so eveytime something major is done, make a new stage folder. yea it would work to some form at each stadge. full funtionality at the last stage. how hard will it be to make?
<nisshh> jenkins: not hard
<nisshh> jenkins: its mostly done already, all we need to do is break it up into the stages and make sure it runs ok
<jenkins> also that app is not a quickly app
<nisshh> its not?
<nisshh> oh, i thought it was
 * nisshh shrugs
<nisshh> jenkins: looks like it to me
<jenkins> well quickly run does not work, we should make it a quickly ap if we are explaining quickly in the manual. there is no .quickly file in it
<nisshh> jenkins: no, that is a quickly app
<nisshh> jenkins: ah i see what you mean yea
<nisshh> jenkins: currently to run the app you will need the trunk code from quickly-widgets
<jenkins> o I was about to add the package from synaptic
<nisshh> jenkins: hehe, yea most of it will work except some new code
 * jenkins gets quickly widgets
<nisshh> jenkins: in order to run the current app you will have to get the trunk and modify your path
 * nisshh hasnt been bothered to do that yet :)
<jenkins> nisshh please let me know when you have the app working , I am failing at the moment
<nisshh> jenkins: it should be working
<nisshh> jenkins: are you making sure your using the trunk code for quickly-widgets?
<jenkins> from quickly.widgets.url_fetch_progressbox import UrlFetchProgressBox is failing I have the new branch from launchpad and its linked in
<nisshh> linked in how?
<jenkins> there is no url_fetch_progressbox file in the branch. I linked /usr/share/pyshared/quickly with the correct folder in the branch
<nisshh> jenkins: ah, no no, all you need to do is modify your path so that you are pointing at the trunk for quickly-widgets
<jenkins> thats the same thing though surely
<nisshh> not exactly
<jenkins> what do i do then?
<nisshh> you dont link quickly-widgets with quickly, its independant
<nisshh> give me 1 minute to get it setup myself
<nisshh> jenkins: which branch did you get from lp to get the quickly-widgets trunk code?
<jenkins> i did bzr branch lp:ubuntu/quickly-widgets
<nisshh> jenkins: ah, thats not quite right, thats the current code thats in the repos, youll need lp:quidgets
<nisshh> quidgets is the old name for quickly-widgets
<nisshh> hasnt been changed in lp yet
<jenkins> right got the old branch now
<jenkins> *right
<nisshh> yea
<jenkins> what now then, I like doing things wrong today :P
<nisshh> lol, one second
<nisshh> cant remember how to set my path right
<jenkins> nither do it
<nisshh> jenkins: sorry, iv got to do some digging
<jenkins> no worries
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> jenkins: argh, i cant get it working just right
<jenkins> me neither glad its not jsut me :P
<nisshh> jenkins: iv got to have dinner, but ill be back afterwards and ill figure it out
<nisshh> lol
<jenkins> kk
<jenkins> nisshh: done it, I will explain after you have eaten dinner
<nisshh> jenkins: omg! how did you do it? spill the beans!
<humphreybc> daker: you there?
<nisshh> humphreybc: enjoying your new membership? :)
<jenkins> well it works for me as I don't use quickly widgets otherwise. in the folder of the branch do "debuild" . in the folder above you will get a package. unistall quickly-widgets in synaptic and install the new one. you also need to search BeautifulSoup in synaptic. ( nisshh )
<humphreybc> nisshh: I haven't even done anything with it yet, need to set up my ubuntu email address and posting on the planet
<nisshh> humphreybc: ah yes
<nisshh> jenkins: ah thats how you did it
<jenkins> well it makes sense and its easier to clean up afterwards
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> ah yes got it
<jenkins> the app is not very pretty
<nisshh> no its not
<nisshh> jenkins: we can always clean it up though
<jenkins> also the "Dent" button appears to shuffle the list or find more dents.
 * jenkins nods
<nisshh> whats wrong with that?
<jenkins> can you add in the .quickly file please then people can use quickly commands. I think "Dent" needs a better name
<jenkins> on the button
<humphreybc> daker, jenkins, i'm going to get quickshot.org very soon, so if daker could start working on the quickshot site asap then we can just move it over
<jenkins> :)
<nisshh> jenkins: ok, ill just be one xec
<nisshh> sec
<nisshh> jenkins: you know its an identica reader right? so its dent instead of tweet
<jenkins> nisshh: no rush :)
<jenkins> nisshh: yep
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> jenkins: ah i see yes
<nisshh> jenkins: ok i added the .quickly file: bzr pull
<nisshh> jenkins: yea, quickly commands work now
<jenkins> cool
<nisshh> jenkins: so basically, each chapter should be teaching the user about that tool/lib as well as providing and explainging the code to them
<nisshh> we dont want each chapter to be more that about 3-4 pages
<nisshh> pdf-pages
<jenkins> yea, i think the glade one will be quite long, there are alot of settings in it
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> try and keep that down to just the necessary settings plus a quick explanation
<nisshh> that should keep it < 5 pages
<nisshh> hopefully...
<jenkins> yep, :)
<nisshh> jenkins: so your fine with the quickly and glade chapters for now?
<jenkins> yea, i will see how much I can get done.
<nisshh> ok
<jenkins> have we got a latex code branch
<nisshh> jenkins: i dont expect us to necessarily have a release out for maverick so we will have to see
<nisshh> yep we do, hang on
<jenkins> ok thats good, I have a few other things to do for maverick
<nisshh> its pretty much our manual code without all the chapters really
<nisshh> jenkins: yea, if we run late we will just re-target to 11.04 i guess
<jenkins> I think we may do it a month after 10.10
<nisshh> yea, maybe
<nisshh> depends how much we can write and if we get other people helping i guess
<jenkins> indeed
<nisshh> jenkins: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nisshh/ubuntu-developer-manual/ubuntu-developer-manual
<nisshh> i havent changed any of it yet
<nisshh> ill add in files for each chapter once as we write them and ill get godbyk to teach me some tex
<nisshh> i mean ASK godbyk'
<jenkins> I know some tex, I have been working on the translators guide pdf. what do we need to know?
<nisshh> jenkins: just some general stuff, linking in chapters, formatting, translations, etc
<nisshh> i think we should have a different set of formatting to the other manual
<jenkins> i can do some of those things, I am sure godbyk will help us along :)
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> i think i know how to link chapters in, and i can manage the glossary index stuff
<jenkins> what about screenshots?
<nisshh> yea, screenshots i think would be good
<nisshh> not as many as the other manual though lol
<nisshh> maybe 10-15 tops
<jenkins> how will we handle different languages as some of them may be harder to get than others
<nisshh> jenkins: what do you mean?
<jenkins> well obviously there is quickhsot, but i guess we would have to translate the app and then get the screenshots of it then? What about one of glade with the app half finished?
<nisshh> jenkins: ah yes, hmmm, we will have to think about that i think
<nisshh> but yes we could use quickshot just like we used it with the other manual
<jenkins> yea, we will need to adjust is slighlty but we will have to think on it
<nisshh> jenkins: the above is exactly why i dont think we will have a maverick release :)
<nisshh> there is too much stuff like that :)
<humphreybc> nisshh: could you do me a favour?
<nisshh> humphreybc: depends...what is it?
<nisshh> humphreybc: are you still there?
<humphreybc> yes yes
<humphreybc> could you add the meetings on saturday to the ubuntu fridge calender?
<humphreybc> instructions here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar
 * nisshh doesnt know how to do that
<nisshh> ill try
<nisshh> humphreybc: the collab meeting and the manual meeting?
<jenkins> the fridge is only for the meetings in #ubuntu-meeting it thought
<nisshh> dunno
<jenkins> go to http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar and it says "It is used for #ubuntu-meeting"
<nisshh> ah
<nisshh> maybe ill just put the collab meeting there for now
<nisshh> unless we are having that somewhere else
<jenkins> it is in here #ubuntu-meeting is booked
<nisshh> ah
<nisshh> and so is our team meeting im guessing?
<jenkins> so far only manual team people are on the "attendees" list. I do not know of a manual team meeting
<jenkins> looking at http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/collaborationmeeting
<nisshh> oh
<nisshh> humphreybc: what meetings are we having on saturday!
 * nisshh is really confused now
<jenkins> afternoon
<daker> jenkins, <humphreybc> daker, jenkins, i'm going to get quickshot.org very soon, so if daker could start working on the quickshot site asap then we can just move it over
<daker> ?
<daker> he sent something ?
<jenkins> daker: I don't think anything has been sent yet there was those mockups on his home server
<daker> oh i think hi is just notifying us
<jenkins> I don't have the link for his server, we will have tio ask him for the mock ups
<jenkins> som eof the ext is wrong, like facebook links
<jenkins> *text
<jenkins> brb
<jenkins> back
<daker> jenkins, http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/
<jenkins> daker: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/quickshot-pngs.zip is waht we want
<daker> there is no psd there
<daker> just pngs
<jenkins> yea, thats all we have at the moment
<jenkins> I guess e-mail ben and ask for them
<jenkins> daker do you know how to add keyboard shortcuts to gtk menus? Also do you know how to add a line going across?
<jenkins> ops not here
<abhi_nav> is Benjamin Humphrey is here?
<abhi_nav> godbyk, ping
<nisshh> abhi_nav: no he isnt, he is asleep right now and im about to go to bed as well
<abhi_nav> nisshh, who? godby or Benjamin?
<nisshh> abhi_nav: Ben isnt here
<abhi_nav> nisshh, whats Benjamin's nick?
<nisshh> abhi_nav: humphreybc
<abhi_nav> nisshh, thanksyou.
<nisshh> abhi_nav: no problem, try again in about 2-5 hours
<nisshh> you might catch him then
<nisshh> cya
<jenkins> daker: do you know how to add the accelerator keys to gtk menu's. Like the ctnrl+Q one for quit
<jenkins> I have Q but can't get "Ctrl+Q"
<daker> jenkins, http://pastebin.com/inGzVKVP
<jenkins> daker: what did you change?
<daker> change what ?
<daker> just create an accelgroup fro the current window : agr = gtk.AccelGroup()
<daker> then add the accelgroup to the window
<daker> self.add_accel_group(agr)
<jenkins> ok thanks dak
<jenkins> * daker
<daker> key, mod = gtk.accelerator_parse("Q")
<daker>         exit.add_accelerator("activate", agr, key,
<daker>             mod, gtk.ACCEL_VISIBLE)
<daker> then tell him what to parse
<daker> then create the accelerator for each item you want
<jenkins> o daker sorry i should have said I have done http://pastebin.com/XTUbQyFd but can't quite see whats wrong
<jenkins> daker: got it thanks
<jenkins> quit = gtk.ImageMenuItem(gtk.STOCK_QUIT, agr) should be line 25 thats what I have got wrong
<daker> yep
<jenkins> now I have to work out how to make it very simple to add the menu bar to every quickshot window automatically
 * jenkins thinks quickshot looks good with out menu's cluttering things up, shame we need them
<jenkins> flan: ping
<flan> jenkins, pong.
<flan> We don't need menus.
<flan> Config files FOREVER.
<flan> For. Ever.
<jenkins> flan: do you know how I can add the menu bar to the top of every window? we need it for the file a bug menu and translate this aplication
<jenkins> this is what i asked in #ubuntu-app-devel
<jenkins>  I have my menu bar how I want it but how do I set it up in bzr branch lp:quickshot so it appears on every window. I can't work out where to put each bit. This is the menu bar http://pastebin.com/j7kM1L7y in a small sample window. I know I need to find a place for lines 15 -69 and a place for lines 70-71 and change it so that it works for the correct box "vbox1_welcome" . I would appreciate anyone who can spare a
<flan> vbox1? That's not an approved prefix. =P
<flan> It's actually a frame property, not a window element.
<humphreybc> godbyk: you around?
<jenkins> right.. so do you know how to add it to every window easily?
<flan> Supposing the current frame is named, for lack of creativity, 'self', it would just be a matter of doing the following:
<jenkins> I have a file with a little sample window in that it adds the menu to . I don't knwo how to do it in the scale of quickshot
<flan> menu_bar = gtk.MenuBar(); self.add(menu_bar); <add every menu item>; menu_bar.show()
<flan> You'd need to factor the menu-populating code into a common function or parent class.
<flan> A parent may be the most elegant way to do it, really, since that'll offer a lot of convenience in the long run.
<jenkins> yea thats where I am stuck
<flan> Can you link to a working module's code?
<flan> Your major is compsci, right?
<jenkins> can you rephrase the question? No mechanical engineering, i am learning python as i go
<flan> Ah.
<flan> Okay, then.
 * flan can't make assumptions.
<jenkins> I have written my own module and i can get results out of it if thats what you mean
<flan> It may be.
<humphreybc> so, who knows about drupal vs wordpress?
<flan> Basically, I want to see something that shows an example of a functioning window.
<humphreybc> flan?
<jenkins> http://pastebin.com/j7kM1L7y run that its a dummy window
<flan> Bonjour.
<flan> I'm familiar with Wordpress. Less familiar with Drupal.
<humphreybc> You'd know about pros and cons for WP vs drupal, wouldn't you?
<flan> I view them as tools for different purposes.
<humphreybc> It's for http://omgubuntu.co.uk
<humphreybc> we're currently on blogger
<humphreybc> but want more customization and faster speed, less shit and grossness
<jenkins> I could do the menus in glade but there is so many settings to find that this way they are guaranteed to be the same across the program. Useful if we change something, we don't have to do it loads of times
<flan> I got called away.
<flan> All I can do is that that Wordpress would handle what's currently on the site just fine, humphreybc.
<flan> I don't know the first thing about using Drupal for blogging.
<humphreybc> okay
<jenkins> humphreybc: can you e-mail daker and i the photoshop files of the website please
<humphreybc> the quickshot one?
<jenkins> yep
<humphreybc> sure thing
<humphreybc> I'll get it to you later today
<jenkins> ty
<flan> jenkins, http://pastebin.com/GbZYzbFv
<flan> I have no means of testing it right now, so it'll probably fail in some way, but it may give you a place to start.
<jenkins> Thanks, I will have a play tomorrow morning
<flan> The idea is basically that QuickshotWindow takes responsibility for setting up everything common to a bunch of windows, its "children".
<flan> As well as providing any facilities they all need.
<flan> The menubar stuff should be moved into its own function (or functions), since it's a lot of code and long strings of code complicate readability.
<humphreybc> you should build quickshot with the global menu in mind :P
<flan> We should design for OS X!
<humphreybc> that too
<jenkins> rigtht if i put it in a file called menu_bar how would I go about calling it? i have          from quickshot import menu_bar; call it with  menu_bar.<what goes here>
<humphreybc> if you actually want some user interface design help, ask godbyk (but he's quite busy) or ask me and i'll ping the design team
<jenkins> what goes where the <> are?
<flan> from src.gui.common import QuickshotWindow
<flan> Then create windows that inherit from that.
<flan> Inheritance isn't an overnight concept.
<flan> For most people.
<flan> I wish I had time to show you a practical example.
<jenkins> hmm.. ok I think i will give it some time. i have done all the other windows in gladee so I just need to add it to that.
<jenkins> no worries thanks for your help
 * jenkins wonders what happens to the global menu in gnome shell
<humphreybc> gnome shell is going to die
<jenkins> I think it has a way to go before they can release it
<jenkins> not sure I will like it but I don't like kde either
<humphreybc> bah, unity is going to kill gnome shell
<jenkins> no sure I like the unity bar on the left, it needs a hide feture
<jenkins> I only see the top panel all the time, desktop space is important.
<jenkins> the gnome shell app menu system needs a sort out its just a mass of icons
<jenkins> I do like that the design is different, not looking like mac as ubuntu is getting at the moment
<dutchie> humphreybc: not quite
<dutchie> different aims
<dutchie> unity is aimed at people who want to do one thing at a time
 * jenkins does lots at once
<dutchie> gnome-shell is for people who like organising workspaces around complex tasks
<jenkins> I also like workspaces
<jenkins> night all
<dutchie> oh god
<dutchie> http://fonttest.design.canonical.com/
<dutchie> they stole our idea!
<jenkins> dutchie: how did they steal it? what idea?
<dutchie> oh
<godbyk> dutchie: where do we get the font to provide feedback on?
<dutchie> you have to be an ubuntu member for now
<dutchie> http://design.canonical.com/2010/07/the-ubuntu-font/
#ubuntu-manual 2010-07-08
<godbyk> dutchie: drat! I'm not a member, but I'd love to test it with our manual a bit.
<dutchie> out of folks in here, humphreybc, zkriesse, jussi, h00k, pleia2, issyl0, AlanBell and I think nisshh are members
<dutchie> one of those is bound to be happy to help
<godbyk> dutchie: you're not a member yet?  I'm surprised.
<dutchie> feel free to add to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/dutchie :)
<godbyk> I need to update my wiki page sometime: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinGodby
<godbyk> looks like everyone who pinged me earlier is offline now.  I hate that. :)
<dutchie> i should be offline
<dutchie> it's gone half past midnight
<dutchie> but it's the last day of my last ever term at school tomorrow \o/
<godbyk> awesome! congrats!
<dutchie> i went to the pub with my maths teacher this afternoon :)
<daker> dutchie: \o/
<dutchie> you are unlikely to see me much for a week or two due to holidays and whatnot
<godbyk> dutchie: sure thing.
<daker> dutchie: tell humphreybc to design the mockup for bugs.u-m.o
<daker> \o/
<dutchie> 00:52:58 < daker> dutchie: tell humphreybc to design the mockup for bugs.u-m.o
<dutchie> and with that, i am going to bed
<dutchie> i will be around friday (hungover) a little bit
<dutchie> then away for a week sat-sat
<humphreybc> blah
<humphreybc> I've been avoiding doing that
<humphreybc> creating forms in photoshop is time consuming
<dutchie> maybe if you used the gimp...
<humphreybc> daker: did you get the quickshot site?
<dutchie> ok, bed now
<dutchie> goodnight
<humphreybc> dutchie: then it would be four times as time consuming
<daker> euh did you sent something ?
<humphreybc> daker: yes
<humphreybc> to your email
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> the quickshot PSD
<daker> kk
<daker> received
<h00k> someone said me
<h00k> Yeah, I'm a Member
<humphreybc> does anyone know how to get the RSS feed from my blog just for a certain tag?
<humphreybc> I'm adding my blog to planet ubuntu
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/category/ubuntu/
<humphreybc> want to add that category
<humphreybc> I just need an rss link for it
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/category/ubuntu/feed/ maybe?
<godbyk>  humphreybc: looks like that works.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> I can have a look at other peoples things too
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> that should work
<jenkins> o/
<thorwil> \o
<jenkins>  collaboration meeting on saturday 10th 8pm utc, if you are coming please add yourself to the list. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/collaborationmeeting , you can also add agenda items there.
<thorwil> a bit late for me and i doubt i would have anything to add ... you guys will get it right :)
<jenkins> If everyone can add the pros and cons for docbook or mallard as the content pool http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/prosandcons
<c7p> hey thorwil, are you around ?
<c7p> do anyone know what's tha paper size of the manual ?
<jenkins> c7p: it depends on the language
<c7p> let's say for the English manual
<jenkins> I *think* english us is us letter, english  uk is a4 letter
<c7p> ok thx :)
<jenkins> np
<c7p> jenkins: when do you go on camping ?
<c7p> go camping*
<jenkins> I have been c7p it was fun :) . I was very tired
<c7p> :p oh cool, but you where almost every time online
<jenkins> I went on friday lucnh time and came back sunday evening
<jenkins> only a short camp really close by
<c7p> nice :)
<c7p> so I can make the thread that i was talking about
<jenkins> yea sure thing
<thorwil> c7p: now i am. i will have to adjust the page size of lulu_el once godbyk can give me the dimensions. that also means that the page count must be known
<c7p> the standard paper size in Greece is A4
<c7p> so i guess a4
<thorwil> c7p: lulu's approximation of that, yes
<jenkins> dutchie: ping
<jenkins> if I have a variable called "res"  which is res = "'disper', '-c', '-r', '1024x768'" , how do i use subprocess.Popen to open it? I have tried subprocess.Popen([str(res)]) and subprocess.Popen([res]) but they don't work. Any suggestions?
<jenkins> nisshh: ping ^
<nisshh> jenkins: woah, sorry i didnt expect anyone to ping right now
<jenkins> nisshh: no worries
<nisshh> jenkins: hmm, i dunno, im not that good with python, can you explain a bit more
<nisshh> jenkins: can you pastebin your code?
<jenkins> basicaly depending on on someones graphics card the command used to change the resolution is assigned to a variable. That variable in the example is res
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> this is for quickshot im guessing?
<jenkins> normally i would do subprocess.Popen(['disper', '-c', '-r', '1024x768'"]) but I need it to be the variable in the middle there. yes for quickshot, just sorting out a pastebin
<nisshh> jenkins: iv got to go eat dinner, but ill be back a bit later, ill help you out then if i can
<jenkins> ok cool see you later
<nisshh> cya
<jenkins> example http://paste.ubuntu.com/460592/ gedit hello works for everyone hence I have used that instead
<jenkins> basically I need subprocess to open the gopen variable
<nisshh> jenkins: so, what does that code do?
<jenkins> it should do the command "gedit open" like you would in a bash shell
<nisshh> ah, so it sort of executes shell commands, through python?
<jenkins> if you do import subprocess; subprocess.Popen(['gedit', 'hello']) thats what I am trying to do but with variables. yep shell commands through python
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> jenkins: whats wrong with the code you first tried, from what iv experimented with it should work
<jenkins> what code?
<nisshh> jenkins: 18:59:16 < jenkins> if I have a variable called "res"  which is res = "'disper', '-c', '-r', '1024x768'" , how do i use subprocess.Popen to open it? I have tried  subprocess.Popen([str(res)]) and subprocess.Popen([res]) but they don't work. Any suggestions?
<nisshh> THAT^^^
<nisshh> code
<jenkins>  does not work for me in my pastebin example
<nisshh> jenkins: 1 sec ill brb
<nisshh> jenkins: does it spit out an error? or something else?
<jenkins> nisshh: the error is http://paste.ubuntu.com/460600/ and the file is http://paste.ubuntu.com/460601/
<nisshh> jenkins: remove the 'hello' part and just try gedit on its own
<jenkins> ok gedit works but all the commands have several parts to them
<nisshh> jenkins: right, maybe remove the space after the comma, i dont think that will matter but yea, and remove the str maybe
<nisshh> jenkins: what you want to do is cut the code down to minimum and add bits on until it errors again
<nisshh> then you will be able to solve each error in turn
<jenkins> I have just worked out that I can use os.system() instead of subproecss, there is a differnce between the two I will have to work out what it is
<nisshh> jenkins: ok, no probs
<jenkins> thanks nisshh, not sure why but I think subprocess is better, so it would be good if it would work
<godbyk-android> Put [] around the rhs of the gopen line
<godbyk-android> Then pass gopen to popen without [] or str.
<jenkins> so like this? subprocess.Popen([gopen])
<godbyk-android> Remove the []
<jenkins> that did not help is this right? gopen = "'gedit', 'hello'"
<godbyk-android> and put them around the gopen = ["blah", "blah"] line
<godbyk-android> (sorry. On my phone. Typing is slow.)
<jenkins> thanks godbyk-android it works now
<godbyk-android> No problem
<godbyk-android> It appears that I woke up for a 7 am irc meeting that's not happening.
<godbyk-android> :-(
<thorwil> godbyk-android: would you feel better to just hold the meeting with me?
<jenkins> i hope that the meeting on sat is able to happen, we need people from all teams to come
<godbyk> jenkins: I'll be there (I hope).
<godbyk> Well, since I'm awake, I guess I'll take a shower and find some breakfast.
<godbyk> be back in a bit.
<ChrisWoollard> Afternoon All.
<jenkins> hello ChrisWoollard
<ChrisWoollard> Obviously it is quiet at this time of day
<ChrisWoollard> Hello Jenkins
<ChrisWoollard> Jenkins. Are you in England?
<jenkins> ChrisWoollard: I am indeed
<ChrisWoollard> Where in the country?
<jenkins> banbury
<jenkins> north of oxford
<ChrisWoollard> I was thinking of the nursery rhyme
<jenkins> yep, there is now a bronze horse in banbury because of the nursery rhyme
<ChrisWoollard> Are you a student or do you work :)
<jenkins> I am a student,
<ChrisWoollard> I am in London myself (and work).
<jenkins> I will be working from august, as I am on placement
<ChrisWoollard> That's good.
<jenkins> yea it will be fun, just not as much time to hang out on irc :P
<ChrisWoollard> At my workplace we have had quite a lot of work placement students/
<ChrisWoollard> The decent ones now actually have proper jobs with us.
<jenkins> thats what I am hoping to get a job with them after my degree
<ChrisWoollard> What
<ChrisWoollard> Sorry. pressed enter by mistake.
<ChrisWoollard> Do you know what you have to do yet?
<jenkins> not exactly, I know i am working on gas engines that are used for power generation. Big engines!
<ChrisWoollard> Ok. That sounds interesting.
<jenkins> they are the size of small cars and weigh 7-10 tons
<ChrisWoollard> What are you studying? I assumed computer science or something. But now I am not sure.
<jenkins> Mechanical engineering
<ChrisWoollard> Nice
<jenkins> I would like to do some computer since stuff but i find programming lessons boring, we had one on matlab it sucked.
<ChrisWoollard> I have no idea what matlab is?
<jenkins> its for doing engineering/practical math calculations, with nice graphs
<ChrisWoollard> Ok. Sounds a bit complicated.
 * jenkins goes to water the garden
<ChrisWoollard> laters
<jenkins> later
 * jenkins is doing a better job at watering himself than the garden
<flan> jenkins, for reference, I usually become available for random questions at the start of the current hour.
<jenkins> ok thanks flan
<jenkins> collaboration meeting on saturday 10th 8pm utc, if you are coming please add yourself to the list. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/collaborationmeeting , you can also add agenda items there. If everyone can add the pros and cons for docbook or mallard as the content pool http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/prosandcons
<nisshh> jenkins: your like an icecream van advertising with a megaphone :)
<jenkins> nisshh: thats the idea :)
<jenkins> bbl
<jenkins> hello again
<daker> hi
<zkriesse> hello daker
<daker> qs website will available next week
<daker> be*
<godbyk> Hey, c7p. In the .tex file you emailed me yesterday, there's a bug.  Search for '\dasho' and replace it with '\dash '  (i.e., remove the o or put a space between \dash and the o).
<c7p> godbyk: ok fixed
<godbyk> thanks.
<godbyk> c7p: I've just uploaded a copy of the PDF to http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-el.pdf if you'd like to check it over.
<godbyk> Let me know of any bugs you find.
<godbyk> I *think* the glossary page numbers are correct now, but could you double-check for me?
<godbyk> Feel free to leave any notes here.
<godbyk> I'll be back in a bit.  I need to read a couple book chapters.
<c7p> ok i am not sure if i can stay for long today, cause i go to wake up early tomorrow, but tomorrow we will do whatever you want
<c7p> but will try :)
<Guest42801> the revision number and date need to take care, and i think the glossary problem still affects some linke (page 131 shoud be 132)
<Guest42801> the index worls fine though :D
<Guest42801> *works
<c7p> yap the pg 131 ref bug still exists
<c7p> and pg 28 (maximize)
<Guest42801> and the two blank pages before the index are still there
<c7p> so here we have the todo list : http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/3sIwez7O8A
<c7p> godbyk g2g cu tomorrow, insult Guest42801 (topo) if he is around, in case there is something that have to be done
<c7p> night/morning/evening all
<jenkins> flan: I think humphreybc is going to buy www.quickshot.org
<jenkins> I wonder how many hits we will get :P It will be harder to get to the top of google
<jenkins> I am excited to see the site in all its glory
<jenkins> has and e-mail subjected  "8/7/2010......REMINDER......REPLY ASAP....."   hit anyone's spam box today? it is bcc'd so I don't know if it was sent to a mailing list or not. It claims the e-mail sent to them may be spam.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-07-09
<jenkins> night all
<nisshh> jenkins: ill be doing some work on the dev manual in a little while, ill make a branch up and turn it into the trunk so you can also start working on it
<jenkins> cool nisshh sounds great
<nisshh> ok
<jenkins> I will be afk quite a bit today
<nisshh> jenkins: ok, just work on it when you like
<nisshh> im setting it up so the whole team can commit to the trunk anyway
<jenkins> thats good
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> jenkins: just so you know:https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-developer-manual/ubuntu-developer-manual/trunk
<nisshh> jenkins: thats the new trunk, which is owned by the whole dev manual team, not just me this time
<nisshh> it also has the sample app in it
<nisshh> godbyk: ping
<nisshh> godbyk-android:
<nisshh> godbyk-android: ping
<jenkins> nisshh: branch is great, kevin will not be up for 2-3 hours yet.
<nisshh> jenkins: ok, cool, i need godbyk to teach me how to create and edit stuff like the /terminal command and such, unless you know how to do that?
<jenkins> nisshh: have a look at the ubuntu-manual.cls file line 512
<nisshh> ok
<jenkins> what do you want to change about it?
<jenkins> I have never done it before but I can't be ahrd
<nisshh> jenkins: i dont want to change anything really, but i just though we might be creating commands and stuff in the future so i thought i should learn
<jenkins> ok i see
<c7p> jenkins, flan under which license is the quickshot  released ?
<jenkins> c7p: GNU General Public License version 3, please point out that it is not worth forking/using as a code base at the moment as it is still mid rewrite
<c7p> so for now it's only for the purposed of the manual ?
<jenkins> no we are working for multiproject support this release, I think we said that in the e-mail i liked to you
<nisshh> jenkins: is the new version going to be easier to use
<c7p> ok, i'm just writing an introduction about the UM project and the quickshot in greek so i can motivate them to learn more
<jenkins> thats the idea, cool.
<jenkins> when you are done can you link me it please, I will have a read using google translate.
<c7p> ok :)
<jenkins> thanks :), feel free to post it on the forum when you are done, I would jsut like to see peoples response
<c7p> jenkins: do you have the ML url handy? if not don't mind I'll find it on google
<jenkins> c7p https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2010-May/014801.html
<c7p> ok ty :)
<c7p> should I add the link or quote the message ?
<jenkins> up to you, which ever you like
<c7p> jenkins: http://forum.ubuntu-gr.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13165
<c7p> i can clarify any paragraph if you can't make out google's translation
<jenkins> nope thats great,
<jenkins> we shall see what people think
<c7p> ok
<jenkins> thanks c7p
<jenkins> :)
<jenkins> see you later all
<semioticrobotic> does anyone use Back In Time for backups?
<semioticrobotic> having a issue I can't solve
<dutchie> ooh, backups
<semioticrobotic> indeed sir
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: sorry, cant help you, i use a bash script that uses rsync
<dutchie> must get round to sorting them
<semioticrobotic> well, Back In Time uses rsync as well
<semioticrobotic> I just prefer the GUI
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> some do some dont
<semioticrobotic> maybe my issue is an rsync issue
<semioticrobotic> not entirely sure
<semioticrobotic> every two days, Back In Time does a complete backup
<semioticrobotic> regardless of changes, regardless of hardlinks, etc.
<semioticrobotic> it just backs everything up from scratch ... and it's killing my drive (not to mention using more space than I have)
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: its your back in time settings im guessing, you should be able to change when it does what type of backup
<semioticrobotic> I've tweaked them twice
<semioticrobotic> (over the past four days)
<semioticrobotic> but this hasn't solved the problem ... not yet, anyway
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: i would think that every 2 days is far too much
<semioticrobotic> right
<semioticrobotic> because a single full backup of my stuff takes 4+ hours
<nisshh> yea
<semioticrobotic> I don't mind doing that once, on initial backup to a fresh drive
<nisshh> changes only would be what you want
<semioticrobotic> precisely
<semioticrobotic> and that's what I have it set to do
<semioticrobotic> once very hour
<semioticrobotic> *every
<semioticrobotic> I save all backups for a year
<semioticrobotic> and it quits if the drive has less than 1GB free
<semioticrobotic> neither of those conditions have been met
<nisshh> yea, maybe it has a default setting of full backups every 2 days, you should be able to change that
<semioticrobotic> yes, I think so!
<semioticrobotic> nisshh: Do you think a script would be better than this piece of software?
<semioticrobotic> keep in mind that I'm somewhat n00bish
<semioticrobotic> but would be willing to consider other options
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: well, if you know enough about rsync, then yes
<semioticrobotic> I've just migrated from Mac OS X, and this is the only issue that has me thinking of going back
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: there are heaps of example rsync backup scripts on the net
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: yea, scripts are the way to go for something like backups
<semioticrobotic> are they easy to set up and run automatically?
<semioticrobotic> (Back in Time uses cron for its scheduling)
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: create your script and run it manually once to make sure it works, then add it as a cron job
<dutchie> !info rsnapshot
<dutchie> hmm
<nisshh> dutchie: real smooth :)
<semioticrobotic> :)
<semioticrobotic> dutchie: just looked it up ... reading now
<dutchie> hello manualbot
<dutchie> !info rsnapshot
<dutchie> !ping
<manualbot> pong
<dutchie> oh well
<nisshh> meh
<semioticrobotic> dutchie: hmmm, well, I know this decreases my cred, but I'll need to admit that this looks just a little too complicated for my current skill set
<dutchie> fair enough
<semioticrobotic> sorry :/
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: give it a go, you can do it
<semioticrobotic> something to work up to, of course  :)
<semioticrobotic> nisshh: Well, while I appreciate your confidence, I'm not so sure  :)
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: meh, well, maybe one day youll try it
<semioticrobotic> nisshh: of course, I'll continue to read and tinker .. but when it comes to backups, I like to be sure I'm absolutely comfortable with the solution I've implemented
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: yea, good point, are you really backup consious are you?
<semioticrobotic> nisshh: Yes.  I keep several external volumes filled with irreplaceable files
<semioticrobotic> nisshh: and I want them backed up consistently and thoroughly
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> work files im guessing?
<semioticrobotic> i just can't believe someone hasn't implemented a more n00b-proof backup solution for Ubuntu by now
<semioticrobotic> yes
<semioticrobotic> on the whole
<nisshh> yea, well, rsync is pretty damn easy
<semioticrobotic> I have a 6GB research library -- 900 books and 2000+ articles -- that I've compiled over the last decade
<semioticrobotic> I would be devastated if they were lost
<nisshh> oooh, id like to read those
<nisshh> semioticrobotic: as well as my backup script i also have 3 external drives i mirror too
<dutchie> there is a thing
<dutchie> deja dup
<nisshh> plus my raid array
<semioticrobotic> dutchie: I looked at deja dup, too, but I forget why I ruled it out ...
<dutchie> i've heard of it being discussed for the default install, so it must be fairly noob-proof
<semioticrobotic> will look into it again
<semioticrobotic> yes, it is
<semioticrobotic> actually, I think I remember now
<semioticrobotic> Deja Dup only restores enture snapshots
<semioticrobotic> *entire
<semioticrobotic> I don't think it can do per-file restores
<semioticrobotic> and when I only want to retrieve a single file (or pdf, something like that), it's a hassle
<dutchie> how does it store them? tarballs?
<semioticrobotic> um, let me check
<semioticrobotic> dutchie, not sure
<semioticrobotic> just looking at the Launchpad page now
<dutchie> never mind
<semioticrobotic> deja dup uses duplicity
<semioticrobotic> (as its backend)
<semioticrobotic> well, thanks for the help and suggestions, folks
<semioticrobotic> I'm sure I'll figure something out
<semioticrobotic> (in the meantime I've filed a question on Launchpad ... we'll see where it goes)
<daker> hi
<nisshh> daker: hey
 * nisshh is compiling his own kernel :)
<jenkins> evening all, how are we?
<jenkins> quite here tonight
<c7p> yap
<dutchie> o/
<jenkins> hello dutchie and c7p
<c7p> hey jenkins
<jenkins> godbyk: ping
<c7p> in about an hour godbyk should be available
<jenkins> k thanks
<dutchie> daker: did you ping the other day?
<jenkins> hey daker great to here how quickly you will be able to do the quickshot site, where are you putting the branch?
<daker> dutchie, i don't remember
<jenkins> dutchie: that may have been me, no worries now
<daker> jenkins, there is no branch :)
<jenkins> daker: cool if you don't mind can you do it under the quickshot project page :) please
<daker> sure
<jenkins> thanks, just checked you are in the quickshotdevs team
<c7p> jenkins: could you help me to find what's the error on http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-el.log ?
<jenkins> sure let me look
<jenkins> found it
<jenkins> where is the latest tex file? in the branch?
<c7p> i am not sure
<c7p> i will send you lattest on mail
<jenkins> cool
<jenkins> hmm not what i thought
<jenkins> in case you have missed any of my other reminders, collaboration meeting on saturday 10th 8pm utc, if you are coming please add yourself to the list. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/collaborationmeeting , you can also add agenda items there. If everyone can add the pros and cons for docbook or mallard as the content pool http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/prosandcons . Thanks :)
<jenkins> still trying to work it out c7p
<c7p> what's the uDocs ?
<daker> jenkins, http://imagebin.org/104704
<jenkins> daker: \o/ :D
<jenkins> c7p: sorry where is that written?
<c7p> jenkins: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/collaborationmeeting
<daker> i think it's Ubuntu Doc Team
<daker> no ?
<c7p> "uDocs, Manual, and Learning  teams collaboration meeting"
<jenkins> c7p: i think i must have leaned on the keyboard with that open
<daker> jenkins, https://code.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/website
<jenkins> wow you have added alot how much, more needs doing?
<daker> what ???!!!!
<jenkins> c7p: I really can't find what is causing the error, it is usually an extra \ that causes that error.
<jenkins> daker: you have added a lot of files all ready, how much more needs to be done before it is complete?
<jenkins> sorry for the bad wording
<daker> it will be complete for this week end
<jenkins> thats great!
<daker> if you want to run the website
<jenkins> can I tweet the screenshot you sent? if i crop out the web browser.
<daker> i'll make one for you
<jenkins> it would be great if you could show me how to set it up I have no clue
<jenkins> thanks
 * jenkins notes daker uses the same theme as jenkins
<daker> humpreybc too
<c7p> jenkins: no problem, I can't find it either :P, kevin should be back in a few minutes so it's no big deal
<jenkins> its really strange I must be missing something
<c7p> I typed the make ubuntu-etc command on my system, and on the log file there isn't any word error
<jenkins> hmm wierd
<godbyk> jenkins, c7p: pong
<c7p> hi kevin
<jenkins> hey godbyk, I forgot what I was going to say. How are you? busy i guess
<godbyk> not too bad. just got back from a meeting.
<godbyk> (seems all I do these days is attend meetings. makes it hard to get stuff done.)
<jenkins> can someone please confirm they got my meeting reminder on the mailing list?
<daker> i got it
<jenkins> thanks,
<godbyk> c7p: the error in the log file on the builds site was the \dasho thing I mentioned to you earlier.
<jenkins> I am determind to do it I will organise meetings until we decide/ get people from every team
<godbyk> I haven't rebuilt the PDFs since.
<c7p> ok nice
<godbyk> jenkins: have people from other teams committed to showing up yet?
<jenkins> err nope :( , I have flooded irc enough on this channel and the docs one
<jenkins> well not on the pad some on the thread but not much since
<jenkins> kevin, what do you dislike about the nexus one? I am tempted to get one once I start work
<godbyk> jenkins: My biggest gripe is actually with T-Mobile's crappy service coverage in my area.  The phone (and Android) is pretty nice, I think.
<godbyk> The 2.2 release fixed all my gripes, I think.
<godbyk> I haven't had time to dink with it much since upgrading, though, so I don't know if it got them all or not.
<jenkins> cool, I am going to have to think about if I can justify the cost
<daker> jenkins, http://imagebin.org/104706
<c7p> godbyk, are you available at this time ?
<jenkins> thanks daker, any idea how to tweet a photo :$
<dutchie> jenkins: http://twitpic.com/
<dutchie> or one of the myriad similar sites
<daker> tweetpic
<daker> create an account on tweetpic
<godbyk> c7p: sure, I can give you a few minutes before I have to dive back into other code.  (so much code!)  :)
<c7p> ok :) thx
<c7p> check this http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/3sIwez7O8A
<jenkins> thanks daker , should be up soon
<c7p> concerning the first item on the list, topo fixed the issue manually if it is ok with you we can overcome this way
<dutchie> night all
<dutchie> i will be back a week sunday
<c7p> for more about the topo's way : http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/YknjBKBNG8
<jenkins> bye dutchie
<c7p> night dutchie
<godbyk> see ya, dutchie
<jenkins> daker: tweeted and facebook'd
<godbyk> c7p: what are some of the glossary entries that were messed up before?
<c7p> godbyk: actually it's their page refferences , https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1PVCof8xG_iEUwPNP_D4ya3s5O6G3i8diDWLe6iwLbTw&hl=en&authkey=CLTxr4UE&pli=1#
<daker> good night
<c7p> night daker
<jenkins> night daker
#ubuntu-manual 2010-07-10
 * jenkins really should ask brandonj about those fish
<jenkins> night all
<hannie> The Dutch translation team have translated 50% of the manual
<daker> hello @all
<daker> hello EgyParadox
<daker> EgyParadox, Arabic ?
<EgyParadox> Yes
<daker> nice
<EgyParadox> I cant speak Arabic here I believe.
<daker> english pls, so everyone can understand you
<daker> Are you working on the translations ?
 * daker want an arabic version of the manual
<EgyParadox> Actually I havent started yet.
<EgyParadox> But I have read through the manual, I really liked it, I am currently busy actually.
<daker> what i suggest it that we make a team to translate the 10.10 manual's
<daker> brb
<EgyParadox> daker:Back, actually there is a team who is currently responsible for translating
<daker> arabic translations ?
<EgyParadox> daker:Yes
<daker> ah no do i mean a team that is focused on translating just the manual
 * daker is going to the beach
<daker> see ya
<humphreybc> If i'm not in the meeting tomorrow, it means i've slept through it
<humphreybc> i'll try to be there though :P
<daker> hi
<daker> the meeting will be in ?
<godbyk> The meeting will be in here in 30 minutes.
<nisshh> i new there was a reason i stayed up till 4am tonight :)
<daker> where jenkins ?
<daker> is
<nisshh> dunno
<nisshh> he was definitely going to be here, im sure he will turn up
<nisshh> i hope some doc team guys and stuff turn up
<nisshh> otherwise this meeting is useless
 * zkriesse is here
<nisshh> zkriesse: yay, we are all saved! ;)
<zkriesse> lol
 * zkriesse feels awesome then
<zkriesse> oh crap
<zkriesse> gotta go for just a few
<j1mc> i'm here from the doc team
<zkriesse> meeting is in 30 minutes though right?
<j1mc> zkriesse: 23 min from now, but yeah
<zkriesse> ok cool
<zkriesse> I should be back by then
<j1mc> i hope people don't mind that i moved the stuff from the etherpad over to the wiki
<j1mc> we had so much info on the wiki, i thought it'd be best to keep it in one spot
<zkriesse> awesome
<zkriesse> linky?
<daker> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center
<zkriesse> thank you good sir
<j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center
<j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center/meetings too
<daker> meeting in 12min
<nisshh> surely more than one person from the docs team?
<nisshh> oh geez
<daker> meeting in 7min
<j1mc> well, i've been the one writing most about it
<ChrisWoollard> Maybe they will be fashionably late :)
<ChrisWoollard> Or even on time
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> j1mc: well, at least someone from the docs team showed up, last time no one did
<doctormo> well learning team is here
<nisshh> doctormo: oh good
<semioticrobotic> hi all
<nisshh> hey, semioticrobotic
<semioticrobotic> I'm not too late, am I?
<ChrisWoollard> Nope
<semioticrobotic> great
<j1mc> is the meeting in this chan, or in #ubuntu-meeting
<semioticrobotic> this one, I believe ... -meeting is booked
<j1mc> k
<j1mc> shall we begin?
<nisshh> geez, where the hell is jenkins
 * pleia2 waves
<j1mc> hi pleia2!
 * nisshh waves back
<j1mc> shaunm !
<j1mc> o/
<shaunm> hey j1mc
<nisshh> shaunm: docs team?
<j1mc> shaunm is the fearless leader of the gnome doc team, inventor of mallard, maintainer of yelp
<shaunm> nisshh: sort of
<shaunm> what j1mc said :)
<pleia2> cool
<j1mc> he can also block a german corner kick just by looking at it.
<semioticrobotic> hey pleia2
<doctormo> Won't having the inventor of mallard here put a bit of a bias on the discussion?
<semioticrobotic> pleia2, how are Ubuntu users days going?
<pleia2> semioticrobotic: going well, thanks :)
<zkriesse> oh hey pleia2
<nisshh> right
<ChrisWoollard> I believe the agenda is here -> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/collaborationmeeting
<j1mc> doctormo: i don't think we should have him leave
<doctormo> I don't think so too
<j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center/meetings too
<j1mc> please keep the agenda and stuff on the wiki
<shaunm> doctormo: I'm not the one making decisions. I'm just here to provide information.
<j1mc> let's start
<nisshh> who is chairing?
<daker> godbyk, ?
<godbyk> I thought jenkins was, but he appears to be away at the moment.
<ChrisWoollard> What happened to Jenkins and the others?
<nisshh> no idea
 * daker is here
<godbyk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:05. The chair is godbyk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nisshh> jenkins went off somewhere a while ago
 * zkriesse is here...To listen
<godbyk> I guess we'll get started. Hopefully others will show up soon.
<j1mc> we had put syntax up at the top of the list
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Format/syntax for the documentation pool
<MootBot> New Topic:  Format/syntax for the documentation pool
<godbyk> I think this is probably the first major issue we need to settle.
<nisshh> can someone fill the rest of us in as to where this decision is at?
 * semioticrobotic nods
<doctormo> I think so too
<godbyk> So far, it appears that the two biggest contenders are docbook and mallard.  With honorable mentions to DITA and a couple others.
<j1mc> with regards to the mallard notes ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center#Mallard )
<j1mc> some of the comments aren't quite correct
<j1mc> shaunm has started work on a mallard > latex converter
<shaunm> http://gitorious.org/projectmallard/mal2latex
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://gitorious.org/projectmallard/mal2latex
<godbyk> From what I have seen in the discussions, it seems that Mallard is more apropos for the Ubuntu docs topic-based help work, while docbook is more apropos to the Ubuntu Manual work.  I'm not sure which format would best server the learning team.
<j1mc> and there is a GSOC project that is working on developing a web-based mallard editor
<godbyk> Cool
<pleia2> I've worked some with docbook for some test things for the learning team, I think it could work great with some good style sheets
<godbyk> I can provide some idea of what the manual team needs, but I'll have to rely on the other teams to address their own concerns.
<doctormo> The Ubuntu Learning team need formats which produce both pdf printable materials, html based websites and are splitable into topics and combinable into books.
<j1mc> shaunm: some time ago, you had a picture of some yelp conditional stuff...
<godbyk> Wow, so, doctormo, you guys need a bit of everything, eh?
<j1mc> http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2010/04/26/faceted-navigation/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2010/04/26/faceted-navigation/
<j1mc> shaunm: what is the status of that?
<j1mc> in terms of mallard support
<shaunm> j1mc: I proposed a run-time conditional system on mallard-list. it's largely stalled on getting community input on useful types of conditions
<doctormo> godbyk: Our use cases are kind of interesting, teacher documents, lesson plans, practical worksheets, cheat sheets, graphics and example files as well as your standard descriptive documentation.
<shaunm> I'd also note that a docbook-esque build-time conditional system would be very easy to layer on top of mallard using external-namespace attributes
<j1mc> shaunm: sorry... could you rephrase?
<godbyk> How difficult is it to convert from docbook to mallard?  Is docbook a superset of mallard or completely orthogonal?
<pleia2> shaunm: docbook is very flexible and it probably pays for that flexibility in terms of how complicated that is, how does mallard compare to these considerations?
<godbyk> (I have a feeling this meeting may turn into a 'bombard shaunm with questions' session.) :-)
 * pleia2 gives shaunm some cookies to make up for it
<shaunm> j1mc: the system I proposed is one where a viewer like yelp would decide what to render on the fly. docbook's and dita's systems are more geared towards filtering on conditions during a build, before delivering to the user
<epkugelmass> Is there an agenda for this meeting?
<godbyk> epkugelmass: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/collaborationmeeting
<ChrisWoollard> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center/meetings
<shaunm> godbyk: I have the rough beginnings of a docbook->mallard converter laying around somewhere. how difficult it is depends on how much of docbook you want to support
<godbyk> shaunm: I was wondering if we used docbook as the backend format, if we could easily convert docbook to mallard for the ubuntu docs team to use.  (they'd probably have to restrict themselves to some subset of docbook, I guess.)
<shaunm> pleia2: I think mallard is differently flexible than docbook. it's less complicated up front, but you can add on to it to make it more complicated
<godbyk> the in-line elements seem fairly straight-forward (formatting, etc.).  how about the structural elements, though?
<j1mc> godbyk: what types of structural elements do you have in mind?
<shaunm> godbyk: if you restricted it to a certain subset of docbook, the conversions would be relatively easy, with one caveat
<godbyk> j1mc: I'm not sure I know enough to be able to answer that question. :)
<godbyk> j1mc: For instance, the ubuntu manual team will be producing books, primarily.  the ubuntu docs team will be producing topic-based help.
<godbyk> there's different structures to topic-based help and a more linear narrative manual.
<shaunm> what makes mallard nice is the extra dynamic linking mechanisms, and those are more than can be inferred from a hierarchical book structure. so either you'd want to encode extra mallard link info in the docbook, or you'd have to add that in a (possibly human-done) post-process step
<godbyk> shaunm: what caveat is that?
<shaunm> (sorry, took a moment to type)
<godbyk> shaunm: can you give me a concrete example?
<godbyk> (no worries)
<shaunm> um, do you have yelp 2.30 and empathy installed?
<godbyk> shaunm: yes.
<j1mc> godbyk: i've contributed to a "book" using mallard.  http://gitorious.org/swfk/swfk
<shaunm> open yelp, press Ctrl+L, and enter ghelp:empathy#create-account
<j1mc> you can clone the repo, then do  "yelp ~/path/to/dir/"
<shaunm> there's link trails at the top, indicating parent relationships
<shaunm> there are two paths to this topic. in a linear book, there's inherently one.
<godbyk> shaunm: Ah, I see.  So it's more of a graph instead of a tree structure?
<shaunm> right
<shaunm> and you've also got the see-also links at the bottom
<doctormo> Not something totally untranslatable though.
<j1mc> mallard is xml-based, so it is easy to translate using existing tools
<shaunm> certainly
<j1mc> launchpad, transifex... whatever
<godbyk> I think that that sort of structure is something that we could/would allow for on the site.
<shaunm> if you were to use docbook as a source to create mallard, I would recommend using docbook 5, because then you could just directly embed mal:link elements inside db:info elements
<shaunm> (or any other mallard metadata elements)
<godbyk> The way I've been (vaguely) thinking about the doc store is that it's a collection of these topics/pages/whatever.  And when you want to create a product like a linear manual or help system, you can pull in the pages you want to establish the structure (how they're linked together).
<shaunm> godbyk: do you have ideas on what you would use to pull them together?
<godbyk> shaunm: Nope. Trying to figure that out. :)
<shaunm> have you looked at either docbook assemblies or dita bookmaps?
<godbyk> shaunm: In the end, it'd have to be translatable to mallard for ubuntu docs and tex for ubuntu manual and lots of different things for the learning team.
<godbyk> shaunm: I haven't looked at either of those yet.
<shaunm> ok, and how much of the material that you'd like to reuse would just be gnome material?
<j1mc> godbyk: is the manual team set on latex?  there are xsl-fo > fop conversions, though i don't think they provide as nice of an appearance as LaTeX.
<godbyk> I think the docs team will be reusing as much of the gnome material as possible.
<godbyk> The manual team tends to write its own stuff or modifies existing docs to fit into the linear book-like style.
<shaunm> right
<godbyk> j1mc: I don't know that we're set on latex, but it does produce the best output so far.
<godbyk> j1mc: Of everyone on the manual team, I'm probably the one who's most concerned about the appearance of the output (typography, etc.).
<nisshh> cyas, im off to bed
<godbyk> nisshh: g'night!
<nisshh> godbyk: cya
<shaunm> but then, if there is sharing of content, how much will the manual team have to adapt docs team stuff to fit a linear book style?
<shaunm> (or, conversely, how much will the docs team have to modify manual stuff to be less booky?)
<godbyk> shaunm: there will have to be some modification (both ways), I'm sure.  how much is an unknown at the moment.
<godbyk> shaunm: ideally, it'd be nice if there were some notion of branching and revisioning so that if some modifications are made to fix an underlying bug in the source doc, it could be picked up or propagated to the tweaked versions (book-style vs. topic-style).
<godbyk> but that may be wishful thinking on my part.
<j1mc> godbyk and shaunm - DITA has a transitional text feature that allow for filler language between topics. http://www.ditainfocenter.com/eclipsehelp/index.jsp?topic=/org.ditausers.infomanager.ArchSpec1.1/topicover.html
<j1mc> it's the "printonly" option
<j1mc> (toward the bottom of the page)
<godbyk> j1mc: I'm not seeing the link or whatever I should be reading.
<shaunm> does there actually need to be a single source format?
<j1mc> godbyk: sorry, click on "transitional text" and then go to the bottom of that page
<godbyk> shaunm: I don't think it has to be. It'd just be easier to share docs if it were.  And it'd mean we only need to create one editor and one set of tools to manipulate that format.
<doctormo> In learning we have found that topics are split up into part, explanatory, descriptive, instructional and demonstrative sections.
<j1mc> shaunm: i think that's the goal - as much content re-use as possible
<godbyk> j1mc: ah, I see it now.
<shaunm> j1mc: well, what I was suggesting was that, with the right tools, any sane source format could be reused in whichever contexts
<shaunm> you could create a book with a docbook assembly that references some files written in docbook, some in mallard, some in dita, some in html, etc
<shaunm> of course, you need a good build tool to handle them all
<j1mc> i haven't looked into docbook assemblies in any meaningful way, but i think it would be best to limit what syntaxes we use.
<doctormo> Is it possible to compile a docbook from something more simple? The source format we have to consider has to be more about editing and structure of meme than the resulting format or publishing.
<j1mc> i get your drift, though... you're suggesting that we have at least *some* flexibility
<shaunm> doctormo: well, you're not going to get more semantics out of less. but you convert to docbook, just maybe not to its more structured modeling elements
<j1mc> doctormo: when you say "something more simple" are you speaking of something like your use of ascii-doc?
<shaunm> doctormo: e.g. I could take a mallard <code> element and turn it into a docbook <programlisting> element, but not very easily into a docbook <classsynopsis>
<godbyk> Hey, jenkins!
<ChrisWoollard> welcome
<daker> 40min!!!
<jenkins> o sorry! I forogt
<daker> welcome jenkins !!
<jenkins> how is it
<j1mc> we're discussing source formats
<jenkins> sorry everyone, thanks to who ever took over
<doctormo> shaunm, j1mc: You guys are talking about tech specifics, I'm trying to make sure that what ever format we choose there is a way to separate out elements so they can be recombined in different circumstances.
<godbyk> shaunm: So we should use the more semantically-rich format for the base, right?  Which format would that be, in your opinion?
<shaunm> godbyk: all the formats have certain things that aren't easily represented in the others
<godbyk> doctormo: I think that the separation of topics will have a little bit less to do with the markup format and more to do with the website/database structure.
<shaunm> but on the whole, docbook probably has the most
<j1mc> doctormo: to make sure i understand what you're referring to, could you clarify what you mean with "different circumstances"?
<shaunm> the question is, do you actually care about the information you get in e.g. classsynopsis?
<doctormo> godbyk: Your probably right, so markup is important in this discussion, linking and other externals isn't so much.
<godbyk> doctormo: I think the linking is very important and something we'll need to figure out soon, too. but I think it's a separate topic.  (there is a little bit of an overlap as the format will come into play there, too, though.)
 * jenkins can't believe i forgot after all the reminding i did on it
 * godbyk couldn't believe it either. :)
<daker> \o/
<shaunm> I think the hardest problem you're going to have to deal with is differences in writing style for different targets
<daker> jenkins, http://pastebin.org/388689
<godbyk> shaunm: I think that will be an issue.  What I'd like to see there is that the site maintains a relationship between the original doc and the modified version.
<godbyk> So you could tell that this section of the manual is derivative of this gnome doc topic, for instance.
<doctormo> shaunm: Actually writing style can be solved more or less with the text's class plus a tabloid method of progressing complexity.
<jenkins> thanks daker
<j1mc> doctormo: could you rephrase?  i'm not quite getting that.
<daker> jenkins, np
<c7p> are you still on meeting >
<j1mc> c7p: yes
<doctormo> j1mc: You have some content, it's one of the classes I mentioned above: explanatory, descriptive, demonstrative or instructional (which is a database thing) and in the text there is a progression so the first sentences are easy and simple and the later are complex and in depth.
<j1mc> i think what shaunm was getting at was that a manual is written in a different style than user docs
<j1mc> or at least it typically is
<j1mc> anyway... i don't mean to get side tracked.
<godbyk> doctormo: that format is good for learning materials, but may not be suited for step-by-step instructions on resolving a problem or following a procedure.
<godbyk> j1mc: right.
<j1mc> there are a couple of things i want to point out...
<doctormo> godbyk: Depends, that sounds like an instructional work to me.
<godbyk> I guess at this point, my question to the group is: Do we have opinions on which format would be best? Or do we need to get more questions answered?
<j1mc> godbyk: i'm thinking the same thing
<j1mc> perhaps doing some mockups - small drafts using each format
<doctormo> godbyk: It's just semantics, I go with docbook fragments.
<j1mc> would work well
<j1mc> take a sampling of content from the docs, manual, and learning teams...
<j1mc> ... and put them into each format
<shaunm> if you do docbook as a source format, I would strongly recommend docbook 5
<j1mc> look at output, workflow, etc.
<ChrisWoollard> That sounds like a good idea.
<j1mc> shaunm: agreed
<j1mc> there's no sense in starting any new project using docbook 4.x
<godbyk> Just to get an idea of what folks are thinking: What objections are there to using docbook 5 for the base format?
<j1mc> what do people think about the sample mockups?  i think it's necessary to make an informed decision.
<ChrisWoollard> agreed
<godbyk> j1mc: I'm all for sample mockups as long as we don't spend too much time on them.
<jenkins> so we are doing mock ups in docbook 5 of each teams work? i still feel a bit out of the loop
<godbyk> We'd want samples in what formats? docbook and mallard?  dita?
<j1mc> godbyk: yeah - that makes sense.  we should be able to have them together in a week.
<j1mc> godbyk: i think all three would be good.
<godbyk> Is anyone here from the ubuntu docs team?
 * j1mc o/
<godbyk> j1mc: ah, great! :)
<godbyk> doctormo: Are you willing to create some mock-ups in the different formats for some ubuntu learning team materials?
<shaunm> not to throw any more wrenches in, but you could also consider xhtml5 as a source format, provided people stuck to certain styles and structures
<j1mc> godbyk: i'm thinking that we need to have a mockup that includes info from all three projects.
<godbyk> shaunm: true. we'd need to define some classes for that, thoguh.
<shaunm> certainly
<shaunm> j1mc: so could all three projects provide a sampling of their content?
<godbyk> shaunm: yeah.
<jenkins> should the content be the same topic?
<shaunm> and then whoever is interested in a source format can look at each project's sampling
<ChrisWoollard> That might make c omparison easier
<j1mc> jenkins: i think so
<j1mc> at least the same topic area
<jenkins> right what topic have we all covered then?
<j1mc> i'm least familiar with content for the learning team...
<jenkins> has the learning team done any of the default aps?
<doctormo> j1mc: Me too ;-)
<j1mc> doctormo: any suggestions?
<doctormo> We have a systems administration course
<doctormo> It's in ODF
<doctormo> http://doctormo.org/2009/07/15/ubuntu-system-admin-class-command-line-basics/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://doctormo.org/2009/07/15/ubuntu-system-admin-class-command-line-basics/
<godbyk> there's already mallard docs for empathy, apparently.
<godbyk> should we work on a topic related to empathy?
<jenkins> the manual does not have any system admin stuff but does have command line basics
<j1mc> ubuntu-docs has a "using the command line" section
<doctormo> sounds like common topic
<godbyk> okay.  intro to command line then?
<jenkins> don't see why not, am I correct in thinking this is to compare writing styles?
<j1mc> sure... and we don't even need a full-on complete section...
<godbyk> yeah.
<jenkins> hey humphreybc
<godbyk> Will a week be enough time for everyone?
<ChrisWoollard> welcome
<humphreybc> hello
<jenkins> sure
<humphreybc> now, am I an hour late or on time?
<j1mc> i'm thinking that it's more to see the syntax and how it could work as a "content pool"
<jenkins> what format are we doing these sections in?
<daker> humphreybc, 1h & 05min
<jenkins> humphreybc: I was 40mins late :(
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> oh well
<godbyk> [ACTION] Each of the teams (docs, manual, learning) will provide samples of their work on using the command line in each of the following formats: docbook 5, mallard, dita, and html5.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Each of the teams (docs, manual, learning) will provide samples of their work on using the command line in each of the following formats: docbook 5, mallard, dita, and html5.
<j1mc> s/html5/xhtml5  :)
<godbyk> j1mc: sure. I figured they'd killed straight html by version 5. :)
<jenkins> how long a page? half a page?
<j1mc> i'll handle the dita part, actually.
<godbyk> jenkins: whatever you need to do to get a feel for the format and use a variety of tags, etc.
<j1mc> godbyk: agreed
<j1mc> shaunm: would you like to handle the mallard?
<jenkins> sounds good to me
<j1mc> you could probably give it the most proper presentation.
<j1mc> ... if you wouldn't mind doing that
<godbyk> It'd be great if we could gather all that up in a week, if possible.
<godbyk> Shall we move on to the next topic on the agenda then (finally)? :)
<j1mc> not yet
<godbyk> rats!
<godbyk> j1mc: What else do we need to discuss?
<j1mc> to make sure we understand...  i was thinking that we would be *combining* content from learning, docs, and manual...
<godbyk> Ah.
<j1mc> into one sample doc in the multiple formats
<humphreybc> j1mc: yes
<j1mc> so that way we're getting the best idea of content re-use.
<j1mc> but that's all i wanted to say
<j1mc> maybe what we do is give ourselves a couple days to get some standardized content from all 3 sources
<j1mc> so combine all three sources into one
<j1mc> then work to get them into the different formats...
<j1mc> one person do docbook, one do mallard, one do dita, one do xhtml5
<j1mc> good/bad idea?
<ChrisWoollard> who is doing what?
<j1mc> i could handle any but xhtml5
<j1mc> we could get a phil bull from the docs team to do mallard
<j1mc> i could do dita
<shaunm> j1mc: I could do handle mallard, if phil can't
<j1mc> shaunm: thanks
<shaunm> I mean, I could do any of them, I suppose
<j1mc> manual team... could you do xhtml?
<godbyk> j1mc: Sure.
<godbyk> j1mc: I can take xhtml 5.
<j1mc> k
<j1mc> shaunm: docbook5?  i haven't given a good look at v.5's special features
<j1mc> if you are too busy, tho... or would rather do mallard
<j1mc> i know you aren't even formally affiliated w/ ubuntu
<j1mc> ... i'll ping out to the docs team for docbook5
<j1mc> surely someone can handle it
<godbyk> ... in a timely fashion. :)
<shaunm> it's not substantially different from 4
<j1mc> syntactically (is that a word?) no... but there are some featuers.
<j1mc> ok... so have the standardized sample content this week...
<godbyk> cool.
<j1mc> perhaps we could dump each project's content into a bzr repo (text only)
<j1mc> no markup
<j1mc> then we do the markup samples
<j1mc> sound good?
<jenkins> yep does to me
<jenkins> what team should own the branch though?
<godbyk> works for me.  do you want to set up the repository and email us the info, j1mc?
<j1mc> sure
<godbyk> okay.
<jenkins> doc team we are all in that right?
<godbyk> anything else under this agenda item?
<j1mc> i think we can move on
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> [TOPIC] The use of multiple IRC channels
<MootBot> New Topic:  The use of multiple IRC channels
<godbyk> jenkins: what's this one about?
<j1mc> i think we're on into manual-only territory, so i'm going to step out.
<godbyk> I'm not sure what territory it's in.  It was on the agenda for this meeting, though. :)
<godbyk> If you have to take off, that's okay, j1mc.  Thanks for showing up!
<godbyk> We'll be in touch throughout the week as we figure out this format stuff.
<jenkins> I thought that as..
<jenkins> we are all talking about the same thing would it make more sense to use one channel? What are peoples thoughts
<jenkins> ie #ubuntu-manual and #ubuntu-doc
<jenkins> we do have a few issues about what to do with ops and channel topics but it is easy to make one point at the other.
<godbyk> Well, #ubuntu-doc seems pretty quiet most the time.  If they don't mind, we could have our USLC discussions there.
<humphreybc> I have no problem with us hanging out in #ubuntu-doc more often
<humphreybc> but i'd like to keep this channel around
<ChrisWoollard> USLC?
<godbyk> Otherwise, it may be a good idea to have separate channels for the different teams still.  For instance, the #ubuntu-manual channel is also home to the Quickshot discussions.
<godbyk> USLC = Ubuntu Support and Learning Center.
<jenkins> the quickshot stuff does make this channel off topic
<godbyk> the temporary name for this website we keep going on about.
<ChrisWoollard> which temporary name?
<c7p> jenkins: quickshot is crucial part of the project, isn't it ?
<humphreybc> The channel set up we have now is fine, but we should hang out in #ubuntu-doc more often
<zkriesse> yeah you guys should
<jenkins> quickshot is important to docs in general but i am rather biased. I do agree with humphreybc
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center
<ChrisWoollard> thanks
<zkriesse> If i may say something?
<godbyk> zkriesse: Sure, jump in.
<jenkins> go for it
<zkriesse> OK, while I know i haven't been with you guys that long I feel that we should have chanserv in here
<zkriesse> make a few ops and such
<jenkins> we have ops, there is not much use for chansevr we just /msg it
<jenkins> sorry that appears rather blunt
<jenkins> what was your thinking zkriesse?
<ChrisWoollard> Ok. What happens now /next?
<godbyk> Was there anything else on the IRC channels issue? Or did we answer your question, jenkins?
<jenkins> thats fine thanks godbyk
<godbyk> [ACTION] Changes in Maverick
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Changes in Maverick
<godbyk> jenkins: Any idea what this one's about?
<godbyk> Or is it manual-only stuff?
<jenkins> I *think* its manual only not for this meeting
<godbyk> fair enough
<godbyk> jenkins: Same with 'Maverick/Lucid Branch merge/replace'?
<jenkins> yep
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> [ACTION] Other business
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Other business
<jenkins> I was hoping jasson would come so we could ask to be sure
<godbyk> Any other business that needs to be covered for this meeting?
<semioticrobotic> Not seeing any :)
<godbyk> I'll take that as a 'no' then. :)
<semioticrobotic> ha!
<godbyk> Thanks to doctormo, pleia2, shaunm, and j1mc for coming!
<jenkins> Thanks to all for coming and thank you VERY much to godbyk for chairing.
<godbyk> And with that...
<godbyk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:36.
<ChrisWoollard> Lovely
<semioticrobotic> nice work godbyk  :)
<jenkins> I do think you have a better grasp on this all than me kevin, its rather more comples than I imaged
<c7p> nice guys
<jenkins> hey c7p
<semioticrobotic> one of our most efficient and focused meetings yet!
<c7p> hey jenkins
<humphreybc> semioticrobotic: probably because I wasn't around for most of it :P
<godbyk> Heh.. yeah, when in doubt, blame humphreybc. :)
<jenkins> sorry everyone I have become rather busy with stuff the last few days and have no real idea why
<semioticrobotic> humphreybc, nonsense :)
<humphreybc> be back shortly
<semioticrobotic> humphreybc: I think it was a combination of the new voices and lots of prior discussion coming into the meeting
<godbyk> jenkins: You should just quit school, forget about a job, join a monastery (with Internet access), and work on Quickshot and the manual full-time.
<c7p> haha
<semioticrobotic> nice!
<pleia2> hehe
<jenkins> godbyk: lol, I have loads of stiff to do before I start work :(
<godbyk> jenkins: Me, too! :)
 * godbyk wishes his dissertation would write itself.
<jenkins> I need to get some sleep as I have to be up on time, does anyone want me for anything?
<semioticrobotic> godbyk, what's your dissertation about?
<c7p> jenkins, i think you can go and rest :)
<godbyk> semioticrobotic: No clue yet. :)
<jenkins> godbyk: did you not have it to start when you joined the team?
<godbyk> jenkins: Pretty much, yeah. I'm only here as a way to procrastinate on my dissertation.
<humphreybc> Well I just can't seem to get my login time any faster
<semioticrobotic> godbyk, no worries, right?  :)  When is your estimated defense window?
<godbyk> Sadly, I need to start on it soonish so I can graduate someday.
<godbyk> semioticrobotic: That all depends on when I get started!
<semioticrobotic> humphreybc, I was just reading your blog post about this
<jenkins> I did more manual team work whilst revising than i have done in a long time
<semioticrobotic> godbyk: Ha!
<godbyk> jenkins: Procrastination is a wonderful thing, isn't it?
<jenkins> yep, I love it
<zkriesse> sorry had to get the mail
<semioticrobotic> I'm starting coursework on a PhD next month (wow, that's the first time I've said that!), so the diss is a long way off
<jenkins> night all, may see you tomorrow please e-mail me if you need anything o/
<c7p> godbyk, what else do we have to do for the trasnlated manual ?
<c7p> night jenkins
<semioticrobotic> I should run, too.  Need to format and set up this shiny new 750GB drive.
<semioticrobotic> bye all
<c7p> bye semioticrobotic
 * humphreybc is still trying to figure out why his login time sucks
<c7p> godbyk: are you around ?
<godbyk> c7p: not really. I had to get back to work on other things.
<godbyk> c7p: I think the only things remaining are the bugs you mentioned.
<godbyk> c7p: I'm going to try to work on it later tonight or tomorrow.
<godbyk> (the glossary stuff is rather irksome.) :)
<c7p> yap ( http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/3sIwez7O8A  )
<c7p> yes it is, topo can fix it if you want
<c7p> g2g
<c7p> try to work on these things for anything you want send me an e-mail.
<c7p> night all
<ChrisWoollard> Goodnight all.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-07-11
<humphreybc> So what was the outcome of the meeting earlier today?
<zkriesse> heya vish
<vish> o/
<ChrisWoollard> It is quiet here this evening
#ubuntu-manual 2011-07-04
<JasonO> Hi. Was trying to install TeXLive when I ran into an error. Can someone mind helping me? http://paste.ubuntu.com/638114/
<zkriesse> Oh that's fun hehe
<zkriesse> TeXLive heh
<JasonO> Hi zkriesse
<JasonO> Care to help? :P
<zkriesse> I'll try
<zkriesse> Been ages since I edited the manual
<zkriesse> -in old, grandpa voice- back in my day we compiled software!
<JasonO> :)
<zkriesse> Yeah I'll try
<JasonO> Okey.
<zkriesse> argh
<zkriesse> been a while hehe
<zkriesse> i'll have to install it to remember bud
<JasonO> Okey
<JasonO> It's okey if you're busy zkriesse
<zkriesse> eh i'm not busy perce
<zkriesse> Not yet anyway
<zkriesse> Just trying to figure some stuff out :)
<zkriesse> I'll work on that and get back to ya asap
<JasonO> Okey, thanks zkriesse. :)
<zkriesse> not a prob
#ubuntu-manual 2011-07-05
<c7p> godbyk: ping
#ubuntu-manual 2011-07-07
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, have you checked lucid e2?
#ubuntu-manual 2011-07-10
<benonsoftware> HI all
#ubuntu-manual 2012-07-03
<Geochr> hi, is everybody here ?
<Geochr> I start translating the manual and i want help how to translate some strings
<Geochr> for example in message: windows!closing
<Geochr> which words must be translated ?
<sagaci> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/precise/view/head:/ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-desktop.tex#L133
<sagaci> it's an index item
<Geochr> so i can translate both words, right ?
<sagaci> I'm guessing so if they match up with the index keywords
<Geochr> sagaci, can i change the order of the words ? If yes, the "!" will be kept in  the word "windows or closing" ?
<sagaci> yep, you can translate it, it's just a reference in the index so just have the first word as the translation of windows and the second word as a translation of closing, see here http://i.imgur.com/Koty0.png
<Geochr> so i will translate both words without to change the order of the word.
<sagaci> Geochr: well you could just use one word
<Geochr> ok thanks a lot...
<hannie> ping godbyk
#ubuntu-manual 2012-07-04
<gigix> Hi guys, I recently join the French translation team. Just asking whether you guys would need extra workforce for translating the ubuntu-manual in FR
<thorwil> gigix: hi, most likely yes
<thorwil> progress can be seen on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<gigix> I have only got started TBH, did a couple of translations through Rosetta on the ubuntu-docs
<gigix> so the ubuntu-manual has to be translated through Launchpad too ?
<thorwil> gigix: i do not know how the french translators do organize themselves. in fact, i stay out of the whole translation business
<thorwil> gigix: but i see that daker_ is invloved, so if/once he is around, conside having a chat with him
<gigix> thorwil, thanks for the tip :)
<thorwil> np
#ubuntu-manual 2012-07-07
<noblo> Morning!
#ubuntu-manual 2012-07-08
<sagaci> godbyk, is the quantal series opening soon?
#ubuntu-manual 2013-07-02
<teolemon> hi
<teolemon> I was wondering what was blocking the release of the French version of the manual
<teolemon> for raring
<uzername> hello there!
<uzername> anyone here?
<uzername> Anyone here?
#ubuntu-manual 2013-07-05
<CarstenG> uzername: Hello.
<CarstenG> uzername: I saw you on Tuesday in the IRC log...
<CarstenG> ... and gone.
<CarstenG> uzername: Hi again :-)
<CarstenG> uzername: I saw you on Tuesday in the IRC log...
<CarstenG> uzername: You had a question?
<uzername> Yeah. I'm going to install Lubuntu on my EEEPC 1025C
<uzername> And save my Win 7 starter
<CarstenG> Good luck with this experiment :-)
<uzername> (I've payed for it)
<uzername> Shall you stay here?
<uzername> I'm newb on Linux
<uzername> And I'm afraid to wreck the whole netbook
<uzername> So... I saw some recomendations about Lubuntu 12.04 installation here:
<uzername> http://linuxeeepc.blogspot.com/2012/08/lubuntu-on-eeepc-1025c-with-correct.html
<CarstenG> Well, the most important thing is, that you have done a backup of all your data..
<uzername> I'm writing you now from my big Windows PC. All my working data are already here.
<uzername> So what distro should I consider? 12.04 or 13.04?
<CarstenG> ok, then you can start :-)
<CarstenG> Well, 12.04 is a LTS, means long term support...
<CarstenG> 13.04 is newer...
<uzername> 12.04 Is considered to be working and 13.04... I'm not sure about it.
<CarstenG> Then start with 12.04
<CarstenG> After you got familiar with it, you can think about a dual boot installation with 13.04
<CarstenG> Do you know the Ubuntu Manual?
<uzername> Here: http://blog.uninstall.it/2012/06/05/kubuntu-12-04-on-asus-eeepc-1025c/
<uzername> I also saw some experiments on modifying Linux kernel for this EEEPC. Is it OK to modify and recompile kernel?
<CarstenG> There you will find a good beginners guide.
<uzername> I've read Ubuntu Manual, but it did not contain some specific technical recommendations and troubleshooting issues.
<uzername> Russian manual by Nevrotin (aka Malamut) is much better, but that is about 10.04
<CarstenG> Well, kernel compilation is a advanced topic. It depends on your general knowledge about Linux.
<uzername> CarstenG: Thanks guy, you are much more polite than those men from russian chats.
<CarstenG> You wrote, you are new to Linux, so I would recommend to start with a normal installation.
<CarstenG> If you have later on more experience, you can start with your own compilations of kernels...
<CarstenG> Thanks, you are welcome. :-)
<uzername> I've used MinGW on Windows but I've found that most of time I'm with MinGW.
<uzername> So I've decided to move to LUbuntu completely
<CarstenG> Which manual do you mean? a Russian translation of the Ubuntu Manual, or a original Russian manual?
<uzername> Umm, both. Nevrotin's manual is based on translation, but he have added some of his experience.
<uzername> Is it okay?
<CarstenG> Sure.
<uzername> So, I now on #ubuntu-manual
<CarstenG> Where can I find it?
<CarstenG> the manual? on http://ubuntu-manual.org I don't see it...
<uzername> So, you want to look through Nevrotin's Work?
<uzername> Sorry, his name is Vadym Nevorotin
<CarstenG> And if you like to contribute to the Russian version of the Ubuntu Manual, you are welcome. The version for Raring (13.04) is at 90%...
<uzername> Contribute? I'm new to Linux.
<CarstenG> I mean with translation.
<CarstenG> Translation is a good way to learn a lot about the system..
<CarstenG> Yes, I would like to have a look to it, do you have a link?
<uzername> I have it on my PC... uploading to dropbox, wait, please.
<uzername> Ugh, carp! My channel seems to be cludged...
<uzername> here you go, CarstenG: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27590640/lucid-guide.pdf
<uzername> It was rather popular several years ago, but it's old now.
<uzername> Do you know Russian?
<CarstenG> Well, my Russian is not so good. I had it in school, but this was long time ago^^
<CarstenG> But I can still read the letters. :-)
<uzername> Yay! Russian is studied at American schools!
<uzername> Downloading lubuntu-12.04-desktop-i386.iso
<uzername> ...
<CarstenG> ok, I'm away for some minutes.
<CarstenG> see you later...
<uzername> You'he been so nice :3
<uzername> And... It's done!
<uzername> Come back, bro, please :3
<CarstenG> Hi, I'm back...
<uzername> So, I'm done with downloading iso and almost done with writing it to usb.
<uzername> I have Used Unetbootin
<CarstenG> What's that?
<uzername> Tool for making bootable media (usb, CD, DVD) from ISO files
<CarstenG> ah, ok
<uzername> Have you used it?
<CarstenG> no. I use usb-creator for creating a bootable usb stick
<CarstenG> it's a default application in ubuntu
<uzername> Created USB drive with lubuntu distro, set correct booting order in bios, but windows is still loading (even with usb drive in port)
<uzername> I've got a bad feeling about that UEFI
<uzername> abbreviation
<CarstenG> does this netbook already have UEFI?
<uzername> Seems so... But how can I determine, whether my Win 7 Starter was preinstalled in UEFI mode or not?
<CarstenG> mmmh, I have no experience with UEFI...
<CarstenG> Sorry, I can not help you here :-(
<uzername> I've managed to boot LUbuntu from USB using some unobvious BIOS options.
<uzername> And chose 'suspend' from menu. That was wrong move
<uzername> CarstenG: After some playing with BIOS settings (they were not obvious, I'd say) I have managed to start install sequence!
<uzername> Is it OK to Install Lubuntu inside Windows 7?
