#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-11
<WorMzy> -
<WorMzy> oops
<MooDoo> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<BigRedS> good morning
<DJones> Morning
<MooDoo> hay AlanBell  i see you've made it onto a collector card :)  same for you czajkowski
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> Morning
 * popey wonders where his collector card is
<MooDoo> popey, random order....i'm sure yours will come soon :)
<shauno> if I was a little less tired, and a little more evil, I'd suggest we "community source" one for him ;)
<popey> :D
<exobuzz> captain popey
<popey> Yes, Admiral Buzz?
<popey> also, hello exobuzz
<exobuzz> nothing. just greeting you. good morning
<MooDoo> someone just gimp one up for him :D lol
<exobuzz> hi
<exobuzz> popey, hah cool cat video. :)
<jimmie> Is there any way to make the File/Edit/etc bar on an open window go into the launcher in Gnome much like it does in unity?
<popey> MooDoo: no need, I have been talking to randal about them
<MooDoo> :)
<AlanBell> MooDoo: yeah, cut out and keep
<AlanBell> top trumps
<MooDoo> lol awesome.......
<MooDoo> ubuntu-uk top trumps edition
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<MooDoo> morning
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<diplo> Morning al
<diplo> all*
<jimmie> Hey lads.
<MooDoo> jimmie, don't forget the lassses :)
<jimmie> Im not. But this is the internet.
<MooDoo> jimmie, i'm just teasing :)
<jimmie> Heh.
<jimmie> Dont suppose you know how to make the top panel swallow the top bar of any open browser or window do you?
<oimon> jimmie: sounds like you are after the "global menu"
<oimon> which version of ubuntu are you using?
<jimmie> 11.04 pal
<oimon> jimmie: which session are you loggin into? gnome classic or unity 3d/2d? (unity has it by default)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gary Kearley] Tetris - http://kearley.net/tetris/
<jimmie> Gnome classic.
<jimmie> Yeah im trying to achieve the same thing unity has.
<oimon> jimmie: try this then: http://www.bbgamer.co.uk/archives/109
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dogmatic69> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<shauno> 'lo
<wintellect> popey: ?
<HazRPG> morning \o/
<brobostigon> morning HazRPG :)
 * HazRPG *glugs more coffee*
<HazRPG> brobostigon: morning :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: long time no see.
<HazRPG> indeed!
<gord> huh. i took two 500 gb barracuda drives out of my machine to test something, but now i have no idea the order in which they go back :(
<HazRPG> Trying to get my head around some projects I was working on.
<popey> wintellect: ?
<HazRPG> Been*
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good plan, coffee, :)
<HazRPG> Man, who'd thought trying to manage contact list on gmail could be so tough o.O
<HazRPG> brobostigon: recently got a coffee machine ;D
<HazRPG> brobostigon: away hot coffee = win \o/
<HazRPG> speaking of which, I'm out... *runs to kitchen*
<popey> gord: surely it doesn't matter what order you put them in?
<popey> gord: UUID FTW
<gord> popey, doesn't grub still work on the old non uuid method? i haven't looked in to how grub 2 works
<shauno> don't look.  it's safer that way.
<wintellect> popey: and how is my new bestest-friend in the whole wide world?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: nice, :)
<wintellect> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi wintellect
<MooDoo> wintellect, creep :)
<HazRPG> woo hurray for Google+ btw ;D
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :) do you have an account?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah, lovin' the coffee machine ;D
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yup :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: let me add you.
<wintellect> MooDoo: lol. I promised popey he would be my "bestest" friend if he game me a a google+ invite. Guess what happened?
<MooDoo> :)
<wintellect> gave*
<brobostigon> HazRPG:  nice penguin, :)
<MooDoo> ooo netsplit :)
<popey> hah wintellect
<HazRPG> just noticed the netsplit
<HazRPG> brobostigon: thanks :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> hey czajkowski prod how did you get past all the security block to get back into England? ;)  Welcome Back
<davmor2> MooDoo: you back on now or are you still in holiday mode?
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> davmor2, i'm back at work :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you have a nice break though?
<MooDoo> davmor2, loved it, how was your week in bakewell
<MooDoo> ?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Smashing, Hot, busy but really nice,  Monday back was the wounder when I saw my inbox :(
<MooDoo> davmor2, yup, just finally cleared mine....and no interview with canonical :(
<davmor2> :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: Trust me it took all week to clear mine, 26xx odd
<MooDoo> davmor2, ah mines no where near that bad :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: it was an entertaining day to fly back I'll give you that
<MooDoo> davmor2, you picked a good week well all the entertainment that was on.....
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski as he's missed her.......:)
 * Gary tickles czajkowski as he's missed her....... :-)
 * czajkowski peers at ye lot
<davmor2> MooDoo: had to avoid the village nearest to us and bakewell on the saturday so we could go else where not fun :D
<Daviey> Gary: !
<czajkowski> clearly I've been away too long ye know that's a no no
<Gary> hey Davieywavie
<MooDoo> davmor2, well glad you had a good time :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: we'll be going again the site was smashing
<davmor2> and ther plenty to do in the area oh and proper food
<MooDoo> davmor2, yep it's a fab place to go, we go quite a lot
<oimon> bbc manchester are looking for a linux SA..mainly debian/ubuntu
<oimon> https://careers.bbc.co.uk/fe/tpl_bbc01.asp?newms=jj&id=37020
<czajkowski> davmor2: ended up smashing my hand into a glass mirror as i was about to leave the house for the flight on sat morning
<czajkowski> drove to airport with hand out the window trying to get it to stop bleeind
<czajkowski> bleeding
<davmor2> MooDoo: not like the wussy Southerners with there 4 slabs of potato that they tell you are hand carved ships :D
<davmor2> czajkowski: Spanner, Muppet, Fraggle, Dilbert, D'oh!!!!!!  And other exclamations of stupidity,   There's enough things in life that try to kill you without you joining in ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: lost my balance not so sturdy 1st thing in the morning
<czajkowski> put my hand out to stop myself falling over
<czajkowski> mirror may not have been my smartest move i admit
<davmor2> czajkowski: come on tell the truth you were still drunk from the night before right ;)
<davmor2> anyone running oneiric on anything and natty on something else?
<Daviey> davmor2: i suspect a few people are.
<DJones> 10:15              <   Guest34784!~epl25@alde.cl.cam.ac.uk []
<DJones> grr
<DJones> oimon: I see that BBC job is based at the new Media City centre
<jimmie>  /j #ubuntu-beginners
<jimmie> hNNGH
<oimon> DJones: probably a lot of staff don't want to move from london either
<MooDoo> DJones, grrr?
<DJones> oimon: I would think so,
<DJones> MooDoo: Mis-paste just before
<MooDoo> ah
<davmor2> Daviey: Evo on natty doesn't see anything in my Inbox after TB in oneiric connected to it,  bu only the inbox.  Both on imap it odd
<davmor2> Daviey: Just got it back must of been an evo thing :(  just odd
<Daviey> davmor2: thunderbird is currently rather poorly for me on Oneiric
<Daviey> davmor2: constantly crashing.
<Daviey> GLib-ERROR **: Cannot create pipe main loop wake-up: Too many open files
<davmor2> Daviey: It kills my test box  186% Cpu usage and sends the system fans into overdrive
<davmor2> Daviey: I'm assuming however that, that is only cause it is importing 10's of thousands of emails, never had it on evo though :(
<davmor2> Daviey: Other issue I have is the ever shrinking, un-re-sizeable filters window
 * Daviey screams
<davmor2> Daviey: I now only see the O of okay on the buttons at the bottom makes it hard to do things like choose a folder
<Daviey> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<davmor2> Daviey: I'm going to take some screenshots and report them the issue is cause it is killing my cpu nothing else seems to start up properly :)
<Daviey> i'm currently using mutt.
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: feeling masochistic today? :)
<davmor2> Daviey: hahahaha possibly a safer bet :D
<Daviey> MartijnVdS: uh?
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: Using mutt hurts my brain
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: I assumed it hurts yours as well
<oimon> i didn't realise that the 5 play limit for a song on spotify was a permanent thing :( i thought it got reset each month
<MartijnVdS> oimon: it used to
<MartijnVdS> oimon: maybe it resets every time you you pay?
<oimon> MartijnVdS: i'm back up to 10hrs play left but tracks i played 5 times about a month ago are still greyed out
<MartijnVdS> complain to the record labels, I guess
<oimon> or use youtube :)
<oimon> it's an album i want to buy but i need to find a machine with itunes on it cos i have itunes vouchers to buy it with..taken me 6 motnhs to get round to it
<davmor2> or buy a dab radio and tune it into Absolute 80's and forget all about music collections :D
<popey> davmor2 is stuck in the 1980's
<oimon> 80s deserves to die in a fire :D
<oimon> except the good bits (i.e. smiths, pixies)
<davmor2> popey: only musically
<Daviey> MartijnVdS: mutt hurts less than thunderbird on oneiric at the moment :)
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: oneiric doesn't like me at all atm.. unity is one crashy pile of poo
<davmor2> popey: there is a nice mix of music, disco, house, rap, rock, pop, cheesey dance hall fillers and ballards that everyone knows :D
<davmor2> did this channel dies as everyone raced out to buy a dab radio?
<MooDoo> davmor2, has analog been tunred off
<MooDoo> ?
<davmor2> MooDoo: no but Absolute 80's is national on dab, and internet and not on fm
<MooDoo> davmor2, stand and deliver...woooahwoah......
<davmor2> MooDoo: George Michael Currently not so hot but still an annoyingly catchy tune, and now I don't want to dance
<AlanBell> Hi all
<MooDoo> hi AlanBell
<shauno> o/
<davmor2> morning AlanBell
<AlanBell> Alfresco server upgraded, afternoon in Starbucks
<TheOpenSourcerer> that was quick!
<AlanBell> it was, went pretty smooth
<TheOpenSourcerer> did you get my mail re the projector?
<j0nr> hello folks! Long time no... write..
<DJones> Hi j0nr
<AlanBell> might pop along to the London hackspace in a bit
<vflinux> hi
<vflinux> how are you?
<vflinux> Hi for all
<davmor2> vflinux: hello
<vflinux> davmor2: Hello
<vflinux> I'm looking for a job like linux support or admin.
<vflinux> if somebody can help me
<vflinux> I thank's in advance.
<diplo> vflinux, Experience is what it's all about
<diplo> Lot's of jobs on uk job sites for linux sys admins
<vflinux> I have 10 yeard of experience
<jpds> vflinux: You asked this last week.
<vflinux> jpds: Yes was me
<davmor2> vflinux: you can join the linuxjobs mailing list popey can you provide the link I can't think of it off hand
<vflinux> jpds: I'm trying again
<vflinux> davmor2: I'm on the list linuxjobs
<davmor2> vflinux: failing that try cwjobs they are pretty good at their Job listings break down including linux jobs iirs
<diplo> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs
<vflinux> davmor2: But no success yet
<davmor2> diplo: thanks
<daubers> lo
<davmor2> daubers: hello
<daubers> It's a code refactoring day today
<daubers> and already I've found one dumb if statement
<vflinux> diplo: I'm subscribed. Thank's
<daubers> if (x==y){  x=y; }
 * BigRedS wonders how whatever that line used to be ended up like that
<daubers> BigRedS: it may have been a no coffee left in the cupboard day
<directhex> daubers, which language?
<daubers> directhex: originally it was python, but I transposed so it would fit in one line :)
<BigRedS> Ah, I was just wondering if it was type related
<BigRedS> though I've never used anything where that's of much concern :)
<directhex> yeah, wondered if it was an attempt at overcoming an object issue
<directhex> e.g. the == operator compares the object's contents, but the = does a full-on object replacement
<livingdaylight> AvÃ©
<livingdaylight> Can someone tell me how I can open two instances of Nautilus. I'm using 11.04 with unity bar
<Azelphur> file new window I think
<livingdaylight> when I have Nautilus already open I can not simply click on Nautilus icon to open another instance of said app, which I want to in order to easily transfer files from one folder to another
<davmor2> livingdaylight: middle click the icon in the launcher
<livingdaylight> davmor2, middleclick! awesome
<davmor2> livingdaylight: np's
<livingdaylight> davmor2, hey, just discovered F3 !
<livingdaylight> splits Nautilus in two screens
<davmor2> livingdaylight: yeap that too but that wasn't what you asked at the time :D
<livingdaylight> davmor2, true, although would have led to what I was seeking to do; copy'npaste files from one to another
<s-fox> Hello.
<MooDoo> hello s-fox , how the devil are you?
 * MooDoo passes s-fox a glass of the red stuff.....
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo  :-)  I'm good thanks, been busy!
<s-fox> I got myself on the ubuntu forum council :)
<s-fox> How are you doing?
<MooDoo> s-fox, well done, i'm fine :)
<s-fox> Thanks for the ribena
<MooDoo> s-fox, wasn't what i was thinking lol
<s-fox> I have not touched a drop since June 3rd
<MooDoo> s-fox, i had a pint yesterday, i'm not a big drinker
<davmor2> MooDoo: You just passed s-fox a glass of red diesel what you trying to do kill s-fox
<MooDoo> davmor2, oi shush you
 * s-fox sniffs the red stuff
<s-fox> ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2, my god i sound like czajkowski
<PalaPad> Grrrrr
 * davmor2 slaps MooDoo silly one czajkowski is bad enough
<MooDoo> davmor2, thanks, i needed that :)
<PalaPad> Travelled all the way to London today for a meeting only to find out it was last week despite all my emails saying it was today
<PalaPad> How you guys doing?
<jimmie> Heh
<davmor2> PalaPad: That's not good
<jimmie> Im good pal, you?
<PalaPad> Even had to get a parent of another kid at my sons school to take him to school today so I could travel to this damn meeting lol
<MooDoo> PalaPad, yeah just read that on twitter.....that sucks
<MooDoo> PalaPad, hope you give someone a rollocking
<PalaPad> Am good though, missus is really sick but I am ok
<MooDoo> PalaPad, just a cold i hope
<PalaPad> We are about 10 weeks pregnant :)
<PalaPad> She has morning afternoon and night sickness lol
<jimmie> Crikey.
<MooDoo> PalaPad, awesome, 7 weeks to go for us.....
<PalaPad> Oh grata moo how is mom to be doing?
<MooDoo> PalaPad, tired, and serious back ache, 1st was 9lb born, thinking this one might be bigger....:S
<PalaPad> Our first was 10lb 15oz so hoping this one is smaller lol
<MooDoo> PalaPad, wow :S  your poor wife....i'm tall, my son is 2.5 but needs 4/5 year old clothes :S
<oimon> oof thats a big baby
<PalaPad> Been hard so far though she is permasick
<MooDoo> PalaPad, it's all worth it in the end, just tell her that, but remember to say it from 10foot away! :)
<PalaPad> So I am having to work, look after the house, her and my son, it is a big problem ATM Sumer is my busiest time
<oimon> not looking forward to having another baby
<PalaPad> Already cancelled 3 conferences and 2 meetings in last month
<PalaPad> Yeah my son is 5 and 4'6" lol
<oimon> agh that sucks. need to use windows to update my bios - is there a windows livecd?
<PalaPad> We just got his 1st year school photo last week he is head and shoulders above every kid in his year
<PalaPad> And 2x broader
<PalaPad> Lil bruiser he is
<MooDoo> Palapad, tell me about it, i'm 6'6 and they expect him to be bigger than me....i hope not.....
<PalaPad> On train so if I go quiet means I lost signal
<PalaPad> moo, yeah Logan is 99.7th percentile for height
<PalaPad> Litera
<PalaPad> Literally off the charts
<MooDoo> PalaPad, sounds like we're the same......:)
<PalaPad> Charts only go to 97th percentile
<MooDoo> PalaPad, yup 99th percentile here too.......
<PalaPad> He is a great kid though
<PalaPad> His 1st school report is amazing
<oimon> i was on 99th %ile for weight..massive fatty
<MooDoo> "put me down son while i'm telling you off"
<oimon> now i'm underweight :S
<MooDoo> i'm clinically obese :D
<DJones> MooDoo: So's the olympic rower (Was James Cracknell?)
<davmor2> oimon: can you not use dos? if you can you can use free dos from any of the live cd's that have it on
<MooDoo> DJones, oh i know it's rubbsh, i'm not that fit but if you saw me, you'd see i'm not clinically obese, i can get away with it coz of my height
<oimon> davmor2: hmm i it's a dell windows only update, rather than a floppy update
<oimon> found some dodgy instructions using wine, gonna try it
<PalaPad> Back
<PalaPad> Is it an old mobo?
<oimon> PalaPad: around 4or 5 yrs old
<oimon> i need the bios for a processor upgrade
<davmor2> oimon: the best of it is you'll probably find out it is the old floppy upgrade patched to run from windows rather than dos :D
<oimon> no such floopy upgrade :(
<brobostigon> does anyone happen to have a spare eeepc 900 keyboard lieing around ?
<davmor2> brobostigon: Um no
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok, thank you.
<oimon> anyone ever used buffalo linkstation as home NAS?
<oimon> they are quite old school
<BigRedS> I think there's one at my dad's
<BigRedS> which perhaps highlights my unfamiliarity with it, so I might be no use whatsoever :)
<oimon> :P
<oimon> found an old one in a drawer, might beat my current unwieldy solution of nslu2+usb drive
<dwatkins> nice, oimon
<BigRedS> fwiw, it's been great. I think it was turned on about four years ago and it's just sat there serving files ever since
<oimon> ah, i will be putting the debian on it :)
<oimon> as soon as i discover which model i have
<daubers> I need to turn one of my old NSLU2's into a print server at some point
<daubers> Just need a big USB stick to hold debian on
<Myrtti> I feel so old looking at LRLUK2008 pictures
<hamitron> worst thing about using something like a NSLU2 to store files on.... it restricts you from "playing" with it ;)
<oimon> lol..any suggestion?
<Myrtti> viglen
<davmor2> hamitron: I was trying to make that fit the latest Need For Speed title  " Need for Speed London to Utah 2"  didn't sound at all right :D
<hamitron> Networking Slow Linux Unit?
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I dunno the real name
<hamitron> None Serious Linux Unit
<hamitron> that would be mine :D
<hamitron> just I don't want to buy one for a firm use.... and need use to jsutify buying
<hamitron> so no way i can follow both them :/
<oimon> they must be cheap now
<oimon> i can't believe i'm installing windows on a PC just to update the bios
<oimon> :(
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> no DOS option?
<oimon> nope, nothing
<oimon> sux
<hamitron> or option to flash from directly in the BIOS
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> adblock plus gets removed between firefox upgrade from 4 to 5..accident? hmmm
<davmor2> oimon: nope it the FF4 one isn't working in FF5 you have to install the FF 5 version bit sucky I know
<oimon> :(
<oimon> i forgot the internet really looks like that
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] QA Community Coordinator Required - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/11/qa-community-coordinator-required/
<directhex> http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/11/google-runs-out-of-disk-space-floods-inboxes-with-notification/
<PalaPad> Lol oimon
<davmor2> oimon: you need to take that feeling and record it for posterity for when you get back to a sane desktop environment :D
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 oi don't even dream of starting! 
<AlanBell> popey: did you get 3d titles going on openshot?
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod what Prod
<BigRedS> there was talk of on-site (or near-site) camping for ogg camp; anyone know if it's been arranged at all?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> ping me later
<dutchie> yay, a camping buddy
<BigRedS> Oh, awesome
<popey> AlanBell: yes, I did, but didn't like them
<suprengr> popey, thanks a lot for email help yesterday - can't believe you took time out to sort the resolution so quickly - hero!
<popey> suprengr: np
<matti> ;]
<AlanBell> I went to the London Hack space today
<AlanBell> gave them a bunch of CDs
 * popey hands gord a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP4NMoJcFd4
<MartijnVdS> popey: they used that app on a radio show last friday
<MartijnVdS> popey: lots of hilarity ensued (they recorded a piece of the evening news from TV and songified it)
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> http://soundcloud.com/rfi-1-1/de-tweede-kamer
<timh_1> Any ideas for a gmail checker that works with priority inbox.
<MartijnVdS> timh_1: Chromium, Firefox
<timh_1> I mean a checker like - gmail checker that pops up in the notification area
<timh_1> There are lots but cant find one that only checks priority inbox
<MartijnVdS> I don't get enough mail to properly use PI, sorry
 * BigRedS wonders if it's later enough to prod AlanBell about camping :)
<AlanBell> yes, come and camp in my garden
<AlanBell> enjoy the soothing clucking sounds of the countryside
<BigRedS> Oh, cool :)
<BigRedS> awesome, cheers!
<AlanBell> BBQ available
<AlanBell> and house facilities
<BigRedS> I'll have been camping for a week and a bit beforehand - those'll feel weird :)
<AlanBell> well you can dig a hole and bury it if you prefer
<BigRedS> haha!
<AlanBell> actually, no you can't
<BigRedS> I was beginning to wonder, but wasn't sure how you'd take me asking...
<AlanBell> ooh woking, change train time o/
<AlanBell> yay, my cunning train plan worked
<BigRedS> aha, handy
<BigRedS> I don;t think I've ever succesfully navigated the rail network by myself
<BigRedS> something always goes wrong...
 * StevenR always finds buses difficult
<StevenR> trains, I find easy.
<AlanBell> I missed the train I wanted, but caught a fast one to woking which overtook the slow one, so now I am on a train I missed :)
<StevenR> (took the train to school for 7 years)
<StevenR> AlanBell: woot
<BigRedS> Aha, cunning
<BigRedS> Oh, busses. I've not attempted those in a long time
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew East] Canonical Copyright Assignment - http://www.mdke.org/?p=111
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-12
<danfish> good morning
<Catbuskris_> good morning to you
<MooDoo> morning
<HazRPG> morning \o
<DJones> Morning
 * iulian yawns.
<AlanBell>  morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> moar coffee
<HazRPG> heh, its funny to see the different sides of conversations about the new blizzard region-links for starcraft 2
<diplo> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=280_1310409920
<HazRPG> Northa America and Latin America regions being linked, and they're complaining about language barriers and lag, EU and Russia are being linked, and they're also complaining about language barriers and lag... but the common post is, they all want to be linked to the korean server, so they can all try and improve their skills... but what about language and lag there? Heh, people can be funny
<HazRPG> even more commonly between posts is, they're rather just have it the way it use to be... and be able to select which server you wanted to connect to.
<HazRPG> diplo: that is quite random... bet that must be a scary walk
<diplo> heh yeah, was madness
<diplo> Made my legs go :)
<HazRPG> diplo: oh, you actually did that walk?
<popey> Morning all
<wangshouyi> Hi,why the output of 'file' command always include "for Linux 2.6.15"?
<diplo> Sorry HazRPG was on phone, nooooooooooooooooo
<diplo> Just made my legs go watching it
<diplo> :D
<HazRPG> diplo: ah ;D
<HazRPG> diplo: I almost set off my acrophobia/vertigo, started getting dizzy watching it!
<HazRPG> It*
<diplo> heh
<MooDoo> wow just watching it now
<diplo> Anyone know how to get memory make/model from cli ?
 * BigRedS wonders if dmidecode would help
<diplo> Kids had me up all night and I really can't get going today
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Cheers BigRedS
<BigRedS> Did it help?
<diplo> yeah, well partially
<diplo> Good enough for me :)
<BigRedS> aha, handy :)
<diplo> Anyone ever wrote an app to send status messages to Facebook, preferably php ?
<diplo> Want to post a customers news feed to there FB account
<popey> use RSS
<popey> i.e. get your fb page to subscribe to an rss feed which has the news in it
<popey> thats what we do for ubuntu uk page and ubuntu-uk-podcast
<shauno> that sounds infinitely cleaner
<shauno> also, did I spy pics of a mbp with no ssd?  get ye back off to ebuyer :p
<popey> shauno: it's at the post office waiting for me to collect it
<popey> (the SSD)
<shauno> \o/
<diplo> popey, I tried that, add it to My notes ?
<popey> however I am used to having a massive disk
<Laney> O_O
<Laney> oh.
<popey> which means I will need to be frugal
<popey> hah
<Laney> misread.
<shauno> popey: I yanked the dvd outta mine, and gone for the best of both worlds.  working a treat so far
<popey> eh?
<popey> you can put a drive in the cd bay?
<shauno> you can  (with a 3rd-party chassis, sadly)
<popey> ooooooooo
<popey> now that is interesting
<popey> link!
<popey> also, how do you install the OS to use it?
<popey> do you have /Users/ on it or something/
<popey> http://www.mcetech.com/optibay/
<popey> is that it?
<shauno> that's one, yeah
<shauno> http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DDAMBS0GB/  that's the one I picked up, same idea thop
<popey> ah, 1TB only in 17"
<shauno> I've left the hdd in /Volumes and just symlinked anything that takes up silly amounts of space  (vmware, music, games, etc)
<popey> due to disk height
<shauno> just leaving the whole home dir on spinning rust meant the hdd never got a chance to spin down
<popey> that looks lighter
<gord> hrm, looking into raids, seems to me that software raid makes more sense - anyone got any nasty experiences with it to keep me away?
<shauno> means my dvdr lives in a flimsy usb caddy now, but that I can live with.  it only really gets used if I mess up enough to need to reinstall
<krimzon2> I was walking through the park once and software raid came out of nowhere and mugged me
<popey> krimzon2: it must have been dark
<popey> bet it was that nasty dm raid
<popey> he's evil
<gord> huh if you install open arena it brings in the open arena server and starts it by default, that seems... wrong
<HazRPG> heh just read that a program called Starfriend has been made so that you can now play SC2 at LAN parties. Epic!
<HazRPG> Think I may have to host a few LAN parties before the summer is finished, think this is the first year I haven't hosted one so far.
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning daubers
<MartijnVdS>  /q koe
<MartijnVdS> uhrm
<matti> :)
<shauno> coworkers are now looking at me like I'm nuts :/  I thought showing the internets the insides of your laptop was normal
<MooDoo> shauno, don't worry we think you're nuts too :D
<oimon> anyone using popey's tomboy builds on lucid?
<oimon> would like to try confirm an issue with it
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, I thought that was normal too... I'm constantly taking pictures of the insides of things.
<MooDoo> HazRPG, but dogs and sheep don't count ;)
<shauno> they do in cumbria!
<HazRPG> o.O
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<MooDoo> morning james
<diplo> popey, found my issue as to why rss feed wasn't working
<diplo> Thanks for reminding me to do it :)
<diplo> on Facebook that is
<diplo> Do you use a similair thing to post to Twitter as well ?
<diplo> Just reading up now
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> supporting people in Oz is frustrating :(
<daubers> send a request for some data, have to wait 8 hours to get a reply
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a hug
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski 
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka
<MooDoo> davmor2, alreet geezer......
<czajkowski> tweedle dum and tweedle dee
<MooDoo> davmor2, stop being nice to czajkowski it's not big and it's nopt clever :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski, at least you didn't say tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber :D
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski too as he's just seen her twitter update
<davmor2> czajkowski: does that make you humpty dumpty the amount of time the hospital spends putting you back to gether again?
<MooDoo> davmor2, they have the technology, they can rebuild her
<czajkowski> it would seem that way
<davmor2> czajkowski: the 5 million dollar woman dududududududududududududu
<MooDoo> davmor2, unless they are being sneaky and turning her into a borg
<MooDoo> davmor2, ah was wondering how to spell that lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: haha czajkowski 1 of 9
<MooDoo> davmor2, she's is the only one :)
<MooDoo> there can be only one lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: don't turn her into the highlander she'll take offence she Irish
<MooDoo> davmor2, she can take it
 * MooDoo starts singing "i am the one and only" lol
 * AlanBell is glad irc is a silent medium
<MooDoo> AlanBell, me too me too
<MartijnVdS> irssi-festival \o/
<shauno> someone's got their soundtracks confused .. chesney hawkes wasn't on highlander
 * davmor2 starts singing Queens fried chicken song
<Laney> i miss CTCP SOUND
<MooDoo> It's a kind of magic in here :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: One Vision aka the fried chicken song, the lyrics say Freddie is saying one vision,  but no way, He definitely says fried chicken
<MooDoo> gimme gimme gimme fried chicken
<MooDoo> davmor2, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Vision#.22Fried_chicken.22
<davmor2> MooDoo: nice
<czajkowski> gord: http://ardrone.parrotshopping.com/uk/p_ardrone_main.aspx
<davmor2> 3 men at work their boss says you can have the rest of the week off if you can sing a song that contains a dog
<gord> czajkowski, this will forever be known as "the incident that started it all"
<davmor2> man 1: She ain't nothing but a hound dog crying all the time
<davmor2> man 2: who much is that doggy in the window
<czajkowski> gord: well the drone has a landing box, it's in the way of the roomba
<czajkowski> you can see the roomba doesn't like this at all
<davmor2> man 3:  thinks, thinks again and finally bursts into Strangers in the night
<davmor2> boss: I know that song there's no dog in it
<davmor2> man 3: there is, there is let me finish
<czajkowski> gord: NEW TOY!
<davmor2> man 3: Strangers in the night exchanging glances scubbydubbydoo .......
<gord> someone bought me a helicopter toy once, took me about 20 minutes to break it forever
<davmor2> gord: I got 2 helicopter toys how the hell did you break them?
<oimon> gord:the only way to win is not to play
 * MooDoo slaps davmor2 
<gord> davmor2, frankly, if you don't break them, you aren't using them correctly
<davmor2> oimon: Hello Dr Falcon, wouldn't you like to play a nice game of chess?
<shauno> I'm so lost .. was expecting davmor's joke to be an epic palindrome
<davmor2> shauno: No just corny
<czajkowski> shauno: there is your first mistake, davmor2 being funny
<davmor2> czajkowski: Hey no fair I know funny their just not safe on this channel :D
<oimon> i wonder if they will ever make a good film about computers.
<MooDoo> davmor2, corny spelt SH**
<MooDoo> oimon, Hackers....best film ever.....EVER....*snigger*
<oimon> wargames/hackers/the net/tron/...all lame
<davmor2> SHOT?
<MooDoo> davmor2, yeah that's the one, czajkowski was right....DUMB ;)
<shauno> to be fair, I'm not sure I'd want to watch an accurate film about computers
<MooDoo> swordfish, that was accurate :)
<MooDoo> lol
<oimon> MooDoo: i saw hackers for the first time ever about a year ago. i think the only reason it has any cult status is that it features a young angelina jolie (meh) and a guy wearing a dave seaman goalie shirt at a party
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's only cause fancy angelina jolie
<shauno> if I want to watch people consuming stupendous amounts of red bull and sleeping face down on the keyboard, I'll start volunteering for night shifts
<davmor2> I liked hacker 3
<MooDoo> davmor2, isn't that one based on kevin mitnick?
<MooDoo> operation takedown?
<davmor2> MooDoo: something like that
<shauno> reminds me, did assange win that free trip to sweden?
<MooDoo> isn't he out on bail?
<shauno> he's back on stage sometime today
<oimon> i think he's tagged in his house
<davmor2> assange is the guy from are you being served isn't he
<bigcalm> Heh
<WorMzy> assange's back in court today to appeal the earlier extradition ruling
 * MooDoo sneaks over to czajkowski and tries to steal her drone
<czajkowski> I killllllll you
<MooDoo> czajkowski, how nice you are
<czajkowski> I'm not
 * davmor2 why MooDoo distracts czajkowski with being killed I swipe czajkowski drone and run for the hills
<czajkowski> clearly you dont know me if you have to aks this
<MooDoo> czajkowski, i don't know you at all.....i'll meet you in RL one day to verify it
<davmor2> MooDoo: do you say that to everyone? :D
<MooDoo> davmor2, yes :)  i tried to meet you didn't i.....but crappy phone systems stopped that one :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahahaha
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<davmor2> brobostigon: morning dude
<brobostigon> davmor2: good morning.
<MooDoo> brobostigon, hi
<brobostigon> MooDoo: hi
<bigcalm> How do you get a full DNS record from dig when axfr isn't working?
<oimon> dig ls <domain>
<bigcalm> It's not showing subdomain records
<bigcalm> Looks like netname's name servers don't allow full transfers
<bigcalm> GAH
<bigcalm> VirginMedia's DNS is horribly slow to update
<dogmatic69> 8.8.8.8
<dogmatic69> 8.8.4.4
<dogmatic69> :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: use opendns it's what I do :)
<BigRedS> bigcalm: I wrote this to get round not being able to get axfrs when I wanted them: https://github.com/BigRedS/avi-utils/blob/master/subdomains
<BigRedS> it's rather crude :)
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: davmor2: tempting, will have to do it per machine as the router doesn't allow one to change the settings
<bigcalm> BigRedS: handy but a little limited
<bigcalm> Won't tell me about 354371-web1
<bigcalm> ARGH!
<bigcalm> The admin in charge of a client's records has typo'd beyond beliefe
<bigcalm> This is why I wanted to check the full record, rather than have to check each subdomain by hand
<BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah, it's a bit crap, but I kept scping it everywhere so stuck it on github
<bigcalm> :)
 * bigcalm appears to be doing somebody else's job here
<bigcalm> Grumble
<gord> maybe you can hire an assistant to do your job whilst you do someone else's job
<bigcalm> Heh
 * bigcalm gives the Vs to everybody's jobs and goes to find some lunch
<MooDoo> i'll be your tea biatch .... :)
<dogmatic69> is there a way to login as another user when already logged in (from terminal)
<BigRedS> su <someuser>
<BigRedS> if you're not root, you'll need to provide a password
<shauno> good lord .. that burning ball out hate is back.  that's the second time in one year?!
<MooDoo> shauno, huh?
<czajkowski> sun
<MooDoo> ah!
<BigRedS> czajkowski: oracle, surely?
<BigRedS> :)
<jpds> czajkowski: what BigRedS said.
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: nice, thanks
<dogmatic69> sudo -U <user> is what i was trying
<jpds> dogmatic69: That would be: sudo -i -u <user>
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> too many ways to do one thing
<kirrus> dogmatic69: it's not linux if there isn't at least 2 ways, which everyone argues about which is the *right* way ;)
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> true
<dogmatic69> i think im gonna write a bash script to do it a better way ;)
<MooDoo> There is only one way, and that's the way chuck norris would do it
<daubers> MooDoo: Chuck Norris doesn't do anything, he thinks about something and it's then already done
<davmor2> MooDoo: blow it to smithereens by looking at it long enough?
<dogmatic69> i am running gitosis on a server and want to do a post-receive hook thing. would i be correct in saying that it will be run as the git user?
<dogmatic69> user "git" that is, there is one set up for gitosis
<dogmatic69> i want to generate api docs, but doubt this git user will be able to.
<BigRedS> if gitosis is running as git, and gitosis is asked to run a command, it will do so as the user git, yeah
<dogmatic69> :/
<BigRedS> that could have been better worded...
<dogmatic69> so i guess.. i can create a empty file, then with a proper user run a cron every 1min looking for that file, if found do what ever and then delete the file. if there is no file do nothing?
<dogmatic69> is that the correct way of doing things?
<dogmatic69> i want the docs updated pretty much instant, but it takes to long to just run all the time
<BigRedS> can you not grant the 'git' user the rights to create the docs?
<dogmatic69> well then i might as well give it permisions for a normal user
<dogmatic69> its got to access things all over, pull code, create files
<BigRedS> might you? I don't know what's involved
<dogmatic69> well su git
<dogmatic69> i can do nothing
<dogmatic69> cant even run a normal .bashrc
<dogmatic69> no auto complete
<dogmatic69> cant add things to PATH that are needed
<BigRedS> that might just be that the shell is /bin/sh not /bin/bash
<dogmatic69> ok
<BigRedS> but, stil, it depends how you do it and what's involved. creating an empty file and having another user's cron check for it and work on the result is quite workable
<BigRedS> if a bit fragile
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> its just internal docs
<BigRedS> That's probably how I'd intend to do it, before deciding to sod it and just give git all the required permissions :)
<dogmatic69> nothing super important
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> yes, it is tempting
<BigRedS> hm. postfix in debug mode produces a _lot_ of text, almost none of which I understand :(
<dogmatic69> till oneday the auth logs say sudo rm / -rf [user:git]
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: that's what's called a 'backup test' :)
<BigRedS> but, yeah, if people are able to talk http to something, it probably shouldn't be trusted to do anything at all, let alone write all over your documentation
<dogmatic69> ye
<BigRedS> I'm still amazed it took me so long to think of piping tail -f output through grep
<davmor2> BigRedS: nevermind hey
<AlanBell> popey: what was the wordpress+apache combination that you had that didn't work so well?
<popey> the one that is currently on ubuntu-uk.org.. one mo
<popey> php 5.3, apache 2.2, wordpress 3.x
<AlanBell> and it was running out of memory?
<popey> I had some more OOMs over night last night
<popey> will probably move ubuntu-uk box to lighttpd when I get a chance soon
<popey> yes
<AlanBell> ok, just seen that on one of our VMs
<popey> crap isnt it?
<AlanBell> it grabbed all the disk activity and starved everything else too :(
<popey> my own vps has been on lighttpd instead of apache2 for some months now
<popey> not OOM'ed once
<davmor2> popey: you'll be getting an ND when they ship then for 2D Craft, the minecraft you love only in 2D :D
<popey> ND?
<davmor2> popey: http://the-nd.com/
<popey> i fully expect that device to never get made
<davmor2> popey: hahaha
<directhex> terarrium is already a 2d minecraft, no?
<oimon> or it might get released for Â£99
<gord> its a different game than minecraft really, its more adventure based, minecraft is more lego based
<dogmatic69> what is the correct if(!is_file('/path/to/file')) for bash?
<dogmatic69> if[[ !-e "/path/to/file" ]] is what i got
<dogmatic69> all it does is complains 'No such file or directory'
<jpds> dogmatic69: if [ ! -e /path/to/file ]; then
<dogmatic69> yntax error near unexpected token `then'
<dogmatic69> jpds: its not liking that much :/
<jpds> dogmatic69: /bin/sh or /bin/bash ?
<dogmatic69> bash
<jpds> Cause, you know: http://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/sect_07_01.html
<dogmatic69> gah
<dogmatic69> if[ == fail
<dogmatic69> if [ == win
<dogmatic69> jpds: thanks :)
<BigRedS> I _never_ get bash syntax right on the first go
<BigRedS> or the second, third or fourth, really. By the fifth I've rewritten in it perl with a bunch of backticks
<jpds> dogmatic69: No worries.
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: ye, change the /bin/bash to /usr/bin/php and its done in 2.5 seconds
<BigRedS> php? ew.
<dogmatic69> it works
<jpds> dogmatic69: What you need is /usr/bin/python.
<BigRedS> and backticks containing `perl -e ....` :)
<dogmatic69> hehe
 * dogmatic69 gets some popcorn
<BigRedS> Haha, I'm quite bad at those arguments. I don't default to perl because it's better than anything else, just 'cause I know it and haven't yet bothered to learn anything else
<dogmatic69> same as php for me
 * czajkowski is impressed with the NHS 
<davmor2> czajkowski: +1 they are good
 * MooDoo was at whitby and they were handing our "i love the nhs" wrist bands
<shauno> I never realised I liked the nhs until I saw a friend get a $1200 bill for riding an ambulance :/
<directhex> bargain
<popey> Did he go Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! NEEEE NAWWW NEEEE NAAWWWW!?
<popey> to get his moneys worth
<shauno> lol
<davmor2> shauno: omg riding in a rodeo is cheaper :D
<MooDoo> yeee haw!
<MooDoo> woohoo 30 mins till home time
<daubers> MooDoo: Slacker, hour and 20 minutes left for me :(
<MooDoo> daubers, started at 8 though, up; since 6 :(
<daubers> MooDoo: I start at 8 most days :(
<MooDoo> daubers, ouch
<daubers> (I'm only contracted to start at 9 admittedly... but stuff needs to be done)
<davmor2> woohoo 3 hours 48 minutes till home time
<MooDoo> davmor2, ner ner ner ner ner :p
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> well that serves me right, this restore i'm doing aint going to take 10 mins :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: ner ner ner ner ner :p
<MooDoo> davmor2, touche!
<davmor2> Muhahahahahahahahahaha!
<MooDoo> git....
 * davmor2 takes his finger off the hdd platter 
<MooDoo> davmor2, you being a DJ again
<davmor2> MooDoo: no I thought it might make your restore go faster
<MooDoo> davmor2, nah :) got the wd40 out :)
<NET||abuse> just installed ubuntu on the 12GB wated recovery partition left by windows (2GB swap for 4GB ram and 10GB / partition)
<NET||abuse> hopefully my windows won't go into crisis and need it :)
<NET||abuse> how does the room feel on drivers for the radeon mobility HD 3400?   should i use fglrx or not?
<NET||abuse> this is on sony viao VGN-FW21E
<gord> no idea, tell us how things work out :)
<NET||abuse> kay :)
<NET||abuse> first boot update laaaaag,,
<NET||abuse> wiating for the 400 + updates to install
<NET||abuse> i selected download updates while installing, i guess i thought that meant it would slip stream install them, but i guess it just has them on disk ready to annoyingly want to be installed when you finally boot in
<NET||abuse> nadgers
<oimon> ugh thats a bit gross. moved my pc so i could upgrade the net card and 2 silverfish wriggled out
<NET||abuse> of the network card?
<oimon> from under the pc
<NET||abuse> oh that's ok
<NET||abuse> thought the silverfish were like "we can haz intarnetz inside network port "
<oimon> if it was a male+female i could be in trouble
<NET||abuse> splicing their microscopic silverfish netbooks directly onto the contacts of your network port : )
<oimon> The female lays groups of less than fifty eggs at once, deposited in small crevices
<hamitron> oimon: need a cat to eat them
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> or a centipede
<oimon> this is my work PC
<hamitron> they aren't harmful are they?
<NET||abuse> oimon, i think you need to get a low toxicity pesticide spray and you can treat all the areas you see them occupying too make sure you nuke their eggs
<NET||abuse> hamitron, nah, they munch on plastic and glue type substances, they can be a bit nasty to houseplants if you have any, and can, over a very long time, damage sealant like around the edges or under a bath or wiring
<oimon> oh bugger i just spotted another
<davmor2> oimon: you're infested
<hamitron> NET||abuse: seriously?
<NET||abuse> heard some say they can be like moths on your clothes, munching little holes in jumpers etc.
<hamitron> we have hundreds in the kitchen
<NET||abuse> not sure about the simple hygene issues around them, if they can be in anyway bacteria spreading or anything
<hamitron> I can confirm slugs eat paper though
<oimon> i've got a EPA hoover around somewhere
<shauno> I really don't enjoy trying to invent enough *cough* to fill a CV :/
<oimon> :-\
<hamitron> they can live for a year with no food? :-o
 * hamitron hides
<oimon> :(
<oimon> time to move office
<hamitron> but I swear my cat does more damage than them
<hamitron> it attacks them and claws the carpet
<hamitron> :D
<AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/business/desktop/webcast
<NET||abuse> why is aptitude not in ubuntu by default anymore?
<shauno> because popey's mom doesn't need it
<hamitron> it isn't?
<hamitron> I thought aptitude was replacing apt-get?
<shauno> I thought it was synaptic which was on the chopping block
<AlanBell> synaptic won't be on the cd
<AlanBell> but will be in the software centre
<shauno> and it really is that simple.  the people who need it, know fine well where to find it
<hamitron> yeh
<AlanBell> yo dawg, we heard you liked app stores, so we put an app store in your app store so you can get software while you get software
<hamitron> be a bugger if you didn't have aptitude or apt-get
<hamitron> ;)
<NET||abuse> hmm, if i want to add the windows partition to the fstab, what's the quickest way?
<shauno> vim :)
<MartijnVdS> Hm
<MartijnVdS> sometimes window switching slows down extremely
<MartijnVdS> and I see lots of messages on dbus about something called "bamf"
<AlanBell> !info bamf
<lubotu3`> Package bamf does not exist in natty
<AlanBell> !info bamfdaemon
<lubotu3`> bamfdaemon (source: bamf): Window matching library - daemon. In component main, is optional. Version 0.2.90-0ubuntu3 (natty), package size 42 kB, installed size 192 kB
<AlanBell> it works out what .desktop a window belongs to
<AlanBell> wonder if that is for adding stuff to the unity menu
<directhex> AlanBell, i wonder if that's to blame for chrome apps not properly appearing on their own...
<ali1234> yes and yes
<ali1234> also plenty of other apps don't work properly
<ali1234> eg minecraft and probably anything java
<ali1234> bitcoin
<ali1234> wine stuff seems to work somehow
<MartijnVdS> bitcoin isn't wine
<MartijnVdS> it's native
<MartijnVdS> or am I mis-parsing :)
<ali1234> yes
<directhex> bitcoin has the other issue, the NO YOU CANNOY HAVE SYSTRAY ICONS YOU POOHEAD design decision
<ali1234> you also can't pin it to the launcher
<ali1234> you can, but when you close it and then try to run it from the launcher, you just get a second icon
<ali1234> and sometimes the first icon doesn't work at all
<ali1234> this happens whether you pin it automatically or make a .desktop by hand and then pin that
<directhex> likelihood of citylink turning up in the next 5 minutes?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: 0.001%
<ali1234> exact same thing happens with minecraft
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Don't raise his hopes
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I like playing with peoples' heads :P
<NET||abuse> hmm, if i symlink all my folders to the windows profile folders, eg.. Documents, Downloads, Pictures, Music, Videos,, that's all fine, but i can't create symlinks inside the now ntfs resident folders, is that right?
<shauno> linux won't create symlinks on ntfs (or fat32), no
<NET||abuse> yup, figured
<directhex> sounds like a defect in ntfs-3g
<directhex> ntfs supports symlinks these days
<NET||abuse> nah, symlinks and ntfs links are different implementations
<NET||abuse> not sure they can be API equivelants
<directhex> NET||abuse, junction points have semantic differences. but modern ntfs does real "files on remote network share? no problem" symlinks
<shauno> is ntfs considered that safe now then?  last I used it, they advised against rw partitions if you cared about the data at all
<shauno> so, google+ is driving me batty already.  it seems to order posts by some measure of how insane it thinks you'll find the results
<directhex> never had an issue tbh
<shauno> I have a post from the 9th, followed by a post from 5 hours ago, followed by a post from yesterday, then a post from the 5th
<shauno> I can't figure out what it's trying to do.  stuff just keeps coming back to the surface
<brobostigon> shauno: it might be ordered, as to when people have commented on , those posts.
<shauno> that could be
<shauno> it seems incredibly silly to me.  people are only commenting on last week's posts, because all they can see is last week's posts
<shauno> so it's self-perpetuating flotsam
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Just like the rest of the internets!
<davmor2> Just WOW that some kissing http://blog.craftzine.com/archive/2011/07/affectionate_lipstick_portrait.html
<bigcalm> She must really like her work
<bigcalm> Time to go dog walking!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Saving a folder into Ubuntu One - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/07/12/saving-a-folder-into-ubuntu-one
<jacobw2> o/
<jacobw2> hmm
<jacobw> excellent
<antdillon> hey matt
<Featurefreak>  hmm, having horrible laggy performance in vlc on a very high end laptop.. fglrx drivers..
<Featurefreak> am i better off using an open source package instead?
<daubers> Lo
<oracology> Featurefreak: open source package for what, sorry?
<Featurefreak> oracology, :) the open source radeon drivers instead of the fglrx drivers
<Featurefreak> for a Mobility Radeon HD 3400
<AlanBell> vlc client or server?
<AlanBell> and what is the server?
<oracology> Featurefreak: ahhh right. i thought you meant open source package for vlc and i was thoroughly confused :)
<Featurefreak> eh? vlc the player on the desktop :)
<Featurefreak> fresh natty install on my sony viao VGN-FW21E, vlc 1.1.9
<oracology> Featurefreak: are you missing any codecs? I'd suggest installing a vlc ppa. there could be newer versions. afaik, fglrx should work quite well.
<Featurefreak> fair nuff, so fglrx isn't a bad choice anyway.
<czajkowski> Featurefreak: also asking the same question in multiple channels is kinda annoying btw
<Featurefreak> i meant to start in uk, unfortunately your about hte only one who's really active in IE :P
<czajkowski> no it's just evening time
<czajkowski> people tend to have dinner around now
<oracology> czajkowski: I'm having dinner right now :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've had mine :-D
<Featurefreak> hmm, i have recommended updates on, but not the pre-released updates source
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mince Beef and Onion Pie, Peas and New Potatoes from the Garden.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: I might attempt potatoe and broad bean curry tomorrow
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was pretty good, even if I say so myself.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I made it kind of Balti Style
<oracology> Featurefreak: turn everything on and then find a vlc ppa as well to stay really ahead of the game ;)
<oracology> Featurefreak: also check vlc settings to make sure it is actually using hardware acceleration to render, and not mesa or something.
<oracology> Featurefreak: otherwise, your fglrx isn't doing anything useful ;)
<AlanBell> Featurefreak: oops thought you meant vnc :)
<Featurefreak> oracology, hm, the vlc graphic accelleration option is "experimental"
<Featurefreak> there's a lot of options in there though.
<oracology> Featurefreak: don't pick anything with "nv" in the list. is there anything for fglrx? or maybe set it to opengl
<Featurefreak> mmm, nah, no fglrx specific stuff anywhere i can see.
<Featurefreak> Xvideo (XCB),   GLX video output (XCB)
<oracology> Featurefreak: try glx
<oracology> Featurefreak: also, address messages to people directly. when you send it to everyone, it might make others' computers beep and they might get distracted. :)
<Featurefreak> oracology, really?? i used irc for a long while and never heard people getting alerts when no-one is addressed?
<oracology> Featurefreak: it might, that's all. depends what clients they're using. just in case :)
<oracology> Featurefreak: i use pidgin, and it used to beep for me, for instance. i'd like to beep when someone's trying to get my attention in particular
<AlanBell> addressing people all the time is more of an issue in #ubuntu where the stream is so fast and it is hard to track three conversations at once
<oracology> AlanBell: agreed. i haven't been around this channel long enough to note its traffic patterns :(
<AlanBell> #ubuntu hurts my head
<oracology> haha, it is noisy. i stick with ubuntu-uk and ubuntu-ca
<Featurefreak> lord help me, i alt-F4 'd my xchat, it says minimize to tray, and then,,,, emmmmmmmmmm
<oracology> Featurefreak: no worries.
<Featurefreak> unity has no tray??
<MartijnVdS> it's a feature :)
<oracology> Featurefreak: it does sometimes :P whenever it feels like it, it puts things in the dock on the left
<Featurefreak> emm, hmm, i didn't have an xchat icon in the dock on the left already, and then i added it, and it didn't reattach to the dock icon
<Featurefreak> so how do you retreive them?
<davmor2> Featurefreak: it has if you install the plugin it appears under the envelope
<oracology> thanks davmor2! i didn't know that. i haven't used xchat in years
<Featurefreak> davmor2, nice.. oracology what irc client you use?
<oracology> Featurefreak: pidgin :)
<davmor2> oracology, Featurefreak: Xchat indicator is the one
<Featurefreak> arcch??? pidgin?? yikes, hate the pidgin irc experience
<oracology> Featurefreak: it does the job for me. i like xchat though. might like to get back on it at some point!
<oracology> davmor2: thanks
<Featurefreak> hmm, have to restart xchat to connect them.
<Featurefreak> hmm, having no luck with keyboard shortcut, alt-F12 for tomboy menu isn't working.
<oracology> Featurefreak: do you have to enable it in xchat preferences maybe?
<Featurefreak> nah, no option there.
<Featurefreak> just havn't restarted yet.
<Featurefreak> gonna try now.
<Featurefreak> yeh, works now :)
<Featurefreak> yeh, clicking on doc icon starts another instance of xchat while it's minimised.
<Featurefreak> doh,, bit of an inconsisten setup :)
<Featurefreak> woah, laggy respone on getting the static task switcher to come up on this.. darnit,, most system level stuff is nappy on this machine, apps start really snappy, but compiz plugins are really sluggish to take effect.
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<dogmatic69_> hey all
<dogmatic69_> anyone have recommendations for a new pc?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Build your own dogmatic69
<dogmatic69_> obviously .... :)
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer++
<dogmatic69_> s/pc/pc bits
<TheOpenSourcerer> Read a few back-issues of Custom PC to get the latest on the best VFM hardware.
<dogmatic69_> vfm?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Value For Money
<dogmatic69_> ah
<TheOpenSourcerer> Obviously your choice will also depend on what you want to do with it, or what you want it to do for you.
<dogmatic69_> ok, how about this then... what is a good/the best way to set up linux? one big raid, hdd for root,home,swap, one for all etc?
<daubers> Anyone now if Unity will run on an eee 701?
<dogmatic69_> live cd?
<daubers> dogmatic69: Not got that far yet :)
<daubers> dogmatic69: Also the answer to your question is.... "depends"
<TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69 yes.
<daubers> dogmatic69: Is this a general purpose home machine, or a uber powered uber machine??
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm off to bed. NN all. Busy day tomorrow selling Free Software :-D
<dogmatic69_> daubers: why does it always have to 'depend' on something :D
 * dwatkins wanders in
<dogmatic69_> its home for work/mc/etc
<dwatkins> ciao TheOpenSourcerer
<dwatkins> dogmatic69_: I'm with daubers - it depends on your requirements
<dogmatic69_> later
<dwatkins> What's "mc" dogmatic69_?
<dogmatic69_> minecraft :D
<dwatkins> Aha, I see - so you need it to be reasonably quick as far as the GUI's concerned.
<dogmatic69_> ye
<dwatkins> What kinds of apps do you use for work?
<dogmatic69_> would like 2x (something fast) gpu
<dogmatic69_> php dev
<dwatkins> So you use vi in a terminal window, then? ;)
<dogmatic69_> browser + web server
<dogmatic69_> just about
<dwatkins> You could do all that on an Eee.
<dogmatic69_> not on 3x 23" monitors
<dogmatic69_> i got 8gig's ram and a quad core q8200 now
<dwatkins> As for the disk configuration, I'd definitely separate out the OS from your data drive, and make sure your data is RAIDed (or at least mirrored) and backed-up, off-site if possible, to guard against failure. The OS is easy enough to reinstall from CD, your data probably isn't as replaceable.
<dogmatic69_> ye
<dwatkins> I had my server booting off a 4 GB compact flash / device with separate /home and other partitions, for example.
<dogmatic69_> if i do that, what is on root? just ubuntu... where do apps go from apt-get install etc
 * dwatkins hands dogmatic69_ a can opener
<dwatkins> You'll need that for the big can of worms you're about to open ;)
<dwatkins> In theory, software apps live in /usr, config files in /etc and libs in /lib, with runtime stuff in /var, but there's a lot of cross-over for certain apps, and directories within those (e.g. /usr/local, /usr/share) which have special designations.
<dwatkins> Have a read of the FSH documentation for more information.
<ali1234> libs that you install with apt-get will go in /usr/lib 99% of the time
<dogmatic69_> :S
<ali1234> in fact almost everything that you apt-get will go into /usr
<dwatkins> FHS, even
<dwatkins> ah ok, not /lib then
<dogmatic69_> ok... say i get 3x SSD's, one for 'root' 2x for 'home' in a raid
<dogmatic69_> how big is needed for root?
<dogmatic69_> 16GB is good?
<dogmatic69_> i just dont want apps to fill it up, cos then i should get a bigger one
<daubers> dogmatic69: SSDs in RAID don't support TRIM properly yet
 * dogmatic69_ is out of touch with this techno talk
<daubers> dogmatic69: If you're looking at buying SSD's go read up on the various different ones on the market
<daubers> dogmatic69: TRIM essentially lets the wear levelling stuff on the SSD work better, so your performance doesn't tail off too badly over time
<dogmatic69_> just having a read up, so that needs a better SSD controller
<dogmatic69_> which does not really exist
<dogmatic69_> right, so if i have OS on SSD, and user stuff on hdd's, will it affect performance compared to all being no SSD's with no raid?
<daubers> dogmatic69: The more recent SSDs have TRIM support
<czajkowski> CAKE man
<daubers> dogmatic69: Your OS stuff will benefit from being on an ssd
<daubers> czajkowski: lo
<dogmatic69_> o/ czajkowski
<dogmatic69_> the controller is built into the mobo right?
<daubers> czajkowski: I hear you've been trying to coax your roomba to rise up in rebellion with the drone and take over the world
<czajkowski> rooma wins hands down
<czajkowski> battery in drone sucks
<daubers> heh
<czajkowski> it does
<czajkowski> plus it has a landing box
<daubers> Unsurprising really
<czajkowski> which gets int he way of the roomba
<czajkowski> so the roomba just bangs into it and moves it
<daubers> Not got some more beacons to stop the roomba trying to eat the drone alive?
<daubers> dogmatic69: The SSD controller is on the SSD :)
<daubers> Also \o/ I've sussed what to set my ringtone too on my new phone
<daubers> Wacky Races theme here we go
<dogmatic69_> ah
<dogmatic69_> so RAID 1 on usr files is good enough for home use, plus a backup to something like synology
<dwatkins>    ~.
<dwatkins> oops, sorry
<dwatkins> dogmatic69_: good enough is whatever means you don't lose your data. In some cases, data at home is more important than data at work.
<dwatkins> Lives may depend on home data, whereas there's just money and/or time invested in work-related stuffs in general.
<dogmatic69_> dwatkins: considering ive never had a backup...
<dogmatic69_> *ever*
 * dogmatic69_ likes living on the edge :/
<dwatkins> If your disk on which your most important files failed right now, what would the impact be?
<dwatkins> *files reside
<dogmatic69_> 8k pics of my son growing up :S
<dwatkins> You might want to put those online.
<dogmatic69_> im gonna get a RAID5 synology box
<dogmatic69_> 9TB
<dwatkins> Ok, sounds good - what if the controller fails?
<dogmatic69_> idk
<dwatkins> Just trying to consider the single points of failure ;)
<dogmatic69_> move them to another one
<dogmatic69_> the drives that is
<dwatkins> That's my point, though - the drives might be configured in such a way that is dependant on a specific model of controller
<dogmatic69_> this is the problem with backups, it just starts getting crazy :D
<dogmatic69_> ye
<dogmatic69_> also need to keep in mind what will work with our beloved ubuntu
<dwatkins> Yeah, I doubt there's a Carbinote client for Ubuntu.
<dwatkins> If you have another PC, just rsync the files, alternatively find someone willing to do the same across the internet.
<dogmatic69_> which is better on ubuntu? crossfire or sli
<WorMzy> /*
<popey> i see Lennart taking the piss out of bug 809426 on G+
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 809426 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "pulseaudio error message contains unnecessarily offensive content (dup-of: 444400)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/809426
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 444400 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Inappropriate error message when attempting to execute daemon while another daemon process is running" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444400
<dogmatic69_> anyone see something that wont work for ubuntu here? http://bin.cakephp.org/view/707337964
<directhex> ikonia: apparently iOS 5 beta 3 allows for setting custom SMS tones. it's the future!
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-13
<knightwise> morning everyone!
<shauno> howdy
<knightwise> hey shauno , how are you today
<shauno> awake :(
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> (me raising hand in agreement that we is awake)
<HazRPG> I haven't slept o.O
<HazRPG> got home @ midnight, read e-mail... and went "ah fudgesticks" and started doing work
<knightwise> hey HazRPG
<knightwise> i'm up too :)
<shauno> I pretty much have to atm.  12hr shifts for the next 3 weeks :)
<knightwise> getting my geek on in the morning ,
<HazRPG> \o/
<knightwise> doing some intstalls , moving some systems around the house , stuff like that
<HazRPG> double: \o/
<HazRPG> nothing like kick starting the day, with a bit of geeking/nerding :)
<HazRPG> or in my case... not actually sleeping o.O
<knightwise> yep , prepped my Amahi server to go live , setup secondary subnet in the house for testing , got boxee box installed for reviewing on the website, and currently installing a *cough* windows7 machine for a friend
<knightwise> while downloading the new linux mint to put on my personal machine
<HazRPG> win
<HazRPG> not sure if ubuntu 10.10 is going to be my cup of tea yet
<knightwise> 11.04 you mean ?
<MartijnVdS> or 11.10?
<HazRPG> er... Freudian slip xD - I meant 11.10
<MartijnVdS> ^5 HazRPG
<HazRPG> I may end up having to build/find updates for 10.10 indefinitely
<knightwise> i'm not even going for 11.04 i think
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: +1!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there's Debian.. :) But I've found that it's possible to get used to Unity
<knightwise> hmm , i thought about giving it a try , but i love consistency
<shauno> nothing a lil lobotomy can't fix ;)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: hmm alcohol :P
<knightwise> i'm downloading the rolling release of mint right now
<HazRPG> knightwise: I tried it in beta... didn't like it... tried it before release... still didn't like it... installed it on laptop before I went to egypt when it got released... it failed horribly over there... (gladly I always have a USB drive with an installer on it to revert to what I'd consider "stable" version)
<shauno> ow .. I appear to have left my powersupply at home :(
<HazRPG> shauno: -1 :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: short work day!
<knightwise> HazRPG: would you suggest going for another distro / version of mint ?
<shauno> naw, it's just going to severely cramp my ability to shoot germans while trying to pass time :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: "Laptop's empty. Pub time!"
<HazRPG> knightwise: personally I dislike mint because it looks too much like windows :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you're supposed to be able to install Gnome 3 on oneiric
<HazRPG> knightwise: my reasoning is, if I wanted something to look like windows, I'd use windows :P
<knightwise> lol , thats true
<knightwise> i like mint because it DOESNT look like unity
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I read about that, but I don't know if I like Gnome3 either xD
<HazRPG> knightwise: what's mint currently rolling with at the moment? Gnome2 or Gnome3?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Although, I must admit Gnome 3 > Unity so far
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I'm just not sure if I'm ready for such radical changes to my desktop yet :(
<MartijnVdS> I used Gnome 2 like I use unity now..
<MartijnVdS> the launchers are just on the left instead of in the panel
<knightwise> gnome2
<MartijnVdS> also, I still don't know the names of things (lenses? wut?)
<HazRPG> see, I'm not a fan of launchers
<knightwise> same here
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: how do you start programs then?
<knightwise> call me oldschool but .. i'm currently running 11.04 with gnome 2 on my Imac
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ALT+F2 xD
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: or using the main menu
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: too much typing for a terminal ;)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I like my "OPEN A NEW TERMINAL NAO" button :)
<HazRPG> I have that too :P
<HazRPG> mod4+T
<HazRPG> just because CTRL+ALT+T was too awkward for my hands
<HazRPG> I'm really tempted to actually give Gnome 3 another try, see if I can get use to it
<HazRPG> but I like my panels too much :(
<HazRPG> feels wrong and dirty to not be able to see instantly at the bottom what I have running
<knightwise> I must say , i use a lot of Xforwarding to run apps that i have isntalled on other machines , so it doesnt REALLY matter to me what shell i use , i've kinda "distributed" my computing allthrough the house (and beyond) these days
<HazRPG> (with full titles)
<HazRPG> knightwise: heh :P
<HazRPG> crap, just noticed the sticky on my desktop!
<HazRPG> *runs to take out gardening waste*
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what's your "run terminal nao" button?
<knightwise> did a jailbreak on my ipad yesterday :)
<HazRPG> knightwise: score
<knightwise> jailbreakme.com
<knightwise> all you need to do is surf to the site with your safari browser on your ipad / ipod
<knightwise> et voila
<knightwise> just ssh'd into my ipod :)
<knightwise> hmm
<knightwise> i accidently installed the "lubuntu desktop" on one of my remote machines ,
<knightwise> and i seem to be unable to get it off .. :(
<shauno> that's quite a slip
<BigRedS> knightwise: what does  an apt-get remove lubuntu-desktop do?
<knightwise> i tried that but i still get the gui login screen , v
<knightwise> very strange
<shauno> so, on the plus side, tmux uses a lot less memory than screen.  on the downside, it keeps sticking it's head up it's rear until I kill it.  rather annoying :(
<BigRedS> knightwise: yu'll probably need to do an apt-get autoremove, too
<BigRedS> 'cause the *-desktop packages just depend upon what's needed for the desktop
<BigRedS> I think
 * BigRedS generally ignores gui things
<knightwise> BigRedS: i am starting to agree with you
 * knightwise loves his cli irssi
<MooDoo> morning
<BigRedS> good morning
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's a big button on the unity bar on the left
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> czajkowski, hi, how are you today?
<czajkowski> tired woken up by stupid builders at 7:30a
<czajkowski> m
<Gary> any cute ones?
<czajkowski> no idea i cant see them to throw things at them
<Gary> aww, thats so unfair
<MooDoo> bloomin windows server reboots
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning daubers
<popey> MooDoo: http://randall.executiv.es/ucw_oneiric_15
<popey> :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> all bow to popey the great.
<MooDoo> popey, yeah i saw it :)  You dislike forums :)       maybe we should do this for ubuntu uk.....:)  would be a laugh :D lol
<popey> MooDoo: like we haven't had that discussion a few times before
<MooDoo> i'll pay you a daubers and raise you a popey :)
<MooDoo> popey, oh i know, just made me smile :)
<knightwise> We could do strip-poker with these cards
<MooDoo> steady
<AlanBell> we did do profile roulette a while ago
<MooDoo> printable ones, good for recognising people at events and such :)
<AlanBell> http://randall.executiv.es/ucw_oneiric_13 unlucky for some
<AlanBell> http://randall.executiv.es/ucw_oneiric_11 nice Union Jack there czajkowski
<daubers> MooDoo: Wah?
<MooDoo> daubers, nothing just being silly.....poker/top trumps with the ubuntu community week collector cards :)
<daubers> Oh! Ok
<daubers> MooDoo: I won't be on one! I've not done anything noteable
<MooDoo> daubers, neither of i, but you're known in here, i'm sure that's enough :)
<daubers> Although, I have been tempted to buy some blank playing cards, print those out and then actually use them for top trumps at Oggcamp
<MooDoo> daubers, i'm not going to oggcamp :(
<daubers> MooDoo: Rubbish :(
<MooDoo> daubers, darn wife got pregnant ;)  and she'll be 8 months by then, i suppose i better look after her ;)
<daubers> MooDoo: Yeah... might be the best idea
<MooDoo> daubers, ooo that reminds me ubuntu baby grow :)
<AlanBell> I can just picture you in one
<MooDoo> AlanBell, you have a warped mind mr ;)
<AlanBell> true
<ikonia> directhex: the fact that you remembered my pain and have decided to ease my suffering makes me love you more
<MooDoo> ikonia, creep ;)
<j0nr> The Ubuntu logo might be the perfect shape for a teething ring
<knightwise> LOLZ
<knightwise> and here i was thinking that I was a nerd
<MooDoo> knightwise, you are :p
<knightwise> MooDoo: ah ..yes ..
<knightwise> indeed i am ! :)
 * daubers blocks "progressiverecruitment" from the work mailserver
<daubers> 2 spammy emails a day is too much
<knightwise> hahah :) smtp nazi ! :)
<daubers> Also need to print a "Please don't park in these spaces" sign for the idiot in the jag whose parked in our spaces and will probably get walloped by the first delivery lorry of the day
<MooDoo> daubers, wouldn't worry about that, he'll learn when they have a dent in the car.....happened where i live
<MooDoo> daubers, someone parked on the wrong side of the road and when asked to move it refused stating they were allowed to park there......fire engine on a call thought differently
<daubers> MooDoo: Just important to put the "We accept no liability that may occur from you parking in these space when you shouldn't be"
<knightwise> or ' Unfortunately your car got smashed by a teenage dalek with anger management issues. We apologise for the inconvenience"
<daubers> knightwise: Or I just go to halfords, buy a clamp and clamp the bugger.
<daubers> There is a sign up saying "Illegally parked vehicles may be clamped"
<daubers> Charge him Â£100 for a release fee, then burn the cash in front of him
<knightwise> LOL :)
<MooDoo> put one of those windscreen stickers on it that say "don't park here" and rip into little bits when you try to take it off
<knightwise> that last bit is the  bomb
<JGJones> MooDoo, apparently they already did that at Silverstone for the F1
<JGJones> On all the cars or something
<JGJones> my dad who went told me that the stickers that they slap on for the car park was hell to peel off - heat from the sun seem to have welded it to the windscreen
<oimon> a bit like the stickers they used to stick on CDs in hmv
<oimon> as a teenager i had a bit of OCD about stickers + glue marks on my lovely CD cases,
 * daubers gives the vpn server a gentle kicking
<bigcalm> Good morning awake peoples :)
<daubers> o/
<MooDoo> bigcalm, hi
<dwatkins> hihi
 * bigcalm ponders which domain to ad a + redirect to
<bigcalm> s/ad/add/
<davmor2> Morning all
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a prod to make sure shes with us
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<czajkowski> meh
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning dude
<MooDoo> czajkowski, wassup....you're being grumpier than normal
<davmor2> czajkowski: :( that's not a happy face meh it not even a half baked attempt at a decent meh
<czajkowski> builders waking me after I'd only gotten back to sleep at 5am
<czajkowski> I swear I slept more as a baby than I do now
<MooDoo> 5am....wow hard life aint it :p
<davmor2> czajkowski: Ah yeap that would do it
<czajkowski> somewhere along the line I forgot how to sleep through the night
<MooDoo> czajkowski, think of it as practive for when/if you have kids :p
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's easy, when I'm in London next I'll bring the mallet and show you :P
<MooDoo> davmor2, when i'm in london next i'll bring whisky,it's the same effect :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: when are you here next
<davmor2> MooDoo: czajkowski doesn't do whisky
<davmor2> czajkowski: 15-19th of august
<MooDoo> davmor2, s/whisky/something else
<czajkowski> davmor2: so after oggcamp
<czajkowski> cool,
<czajkowski> davmor2: I do love my JD!!!!!
<MooDoo> davmor2, czajkowski JD evening i think then :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: JD is a bourbon it isn't left in cask long enough to be whisky
<daubers> Whiskey \o/
<daubers> JD /o\
<jpds> You guys are going shopping for shoes?
<czajkowski> CAKE MAN!
<czajkowski> daubers: remember you owe me cake at oggcamp
<daubers> Cake \o/
<daubers> czajkowski: Yup, I owe a couple of peopl ecake
<daubers> people cake even
<daubers> Probably just make a big cak
<daubers> e
<czajkowski> daubers: yes indeeed,
<czajkowski> but I'm special
<czajkowski> I have to deal with MooDoo and davmor2 on a daily basis!
<daubers> czajkowski: So what you really need is a supply of custard pies and a catapult?
<davmor2> czajkowski: Hey no fair we both have to put with you I know which is worse :P
<czajkowski> daubers: ohhh yes pie in the face to raise funds for the team
<czajkowski> I nominate davmor2 to sit in the chair for the day
<czajkowski> a quid a pie
<czajkowski> make a fortune
<czajkowski> *grin*
<davmor2> hmmmmm pie
<daubers> czajkowski: You'd be bankrupt in an hour
<czajkowski> but would be so worth t
<czajkowski> and others would chip in too
<czajkowski> we could alternate between a davmor2 and a Daviey for pie in the face
<davmor2> czajkowski: What did Daviey do?
<czajkowski> it's Daviey always blame Dave2
<czajkowski> Daviey:
<andylockran> howdy
<MooDoo> czajkowski, you'd miss us if we wasn't here
<bigcalm> I jumped on the band-wagon: http://cuth.eu/+
<andylockran> woop
<bigcalm_> Â¬.Â¬
<bigcalm_> Damn you intermittant internet connection in just one server
<gord> also me, http://gordallott.com/+ - its amazing how no matter how many times i have to edit apache config files, i always come away learning nothing
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> gord: I added an extra redirect rule to my urlshortener site to redirect to an existing redirect slug
<bigcalm> so: /+ -> /gplus -> happy fun time
<bigcalm> Though I do have the ability to put + at the end of slugs to stop the redirection and see what the original URL is, it won't work for /++ ;)
<czajkows1i> Gary: ping
<gord> for all the fuss some people make about the contributor agreement canonical has, i'v never once sent out a "hey can you sign up to the contributor agreement?" email to a contributor that ever caused a fuss, people seem fairly willing
<Gary> czajkowski: hey ya, wassup?
<knightwise> hahahah :) i love Xforwarding :)
<czajkowski> Gary: tis ok now
<Gary> phew
<davmor2> Gary: czajkowski was lining you up for a slap I'll tell you ;)
<Gary> nah, she knows I like them
 * Gary tickles cz<tab>
<MooDoo> can i have a slap please?
 * andylockran slaps MooDoo 
<MooDoo> i needed that :)
 * Gary tickles MooDoo inappropriately
 * MooDoo giggles 
<MooDoo> oh behave
 * davmor2 slaps MooDoo with a cricket bat, anything to help a friend :D
<popey> shauno: where did you get your OWC data doubler?
<popey> shauno: i.e. did you get it shipped from the US?
<shauno> I did
<shauno> owc & macsales are the same company. not seen much of their stuff elsewhere :/
<shauno> funny enough tho, I ordered it the same day as my ram from the UK.  the datadoubler got here first
<popey> shauno: http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=macbook+pro+caddy&_sacat=0&_odkw=macbook+pro+dvd+caddy&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313
<shauno> didn't think to try ebay .. I took the lazy option & got it bundled with the ssd & external dvd caddy
<hoover> hi all
<daubers> urgh, it's a telephone day today.
<shauno> telephone day?
<daubers> shauno: Constantly on the phone either giving support, or explaining system designs/capabilities
<daubers> i.e. no actual engineering today
<shauno> oh.  welcome to my life :p
<daubers> shauno: This always happens when the bosses and the sales guy are out at the same time
<czajkowski> c
<daubers> d
<brobostigon> z
<knightwise> m
<MooDoo> y m c a?
<BigRedS> ddojsioc?
<Laney> idkfa
<MooDoo> wtf?
<daubers> \o/ ^o^ o< /o\
 * BigRedS bought that on steam the other day
 * brobostigon fully expects someone to spell out leters in binary in a minute.
<BigRedS> iddqd
<shauno> I woulda, but they didn't have mac bulids :(
<BigRedS> shauno: I assumed the licenses were transferable
<BigRedS> are they not?
<BigRedS> so if i've bought Doom I can play in on a windows box or a mac
 * BigRedS ponders trying to get #hacking on twiter to be full of tweets about hacking
<oimon> my android hpone space keeps filling up :( need to apply a custom rom soon
<oimon> realised that none of my email or notifications had arrived on my phone all day due to space issues
<MooDoo> oimon, cyanogen
<oimon> yeah, how u getting on with it?
<oimon> not looking forward to reinstalling all my apps again though :(
<oimon> MooDoo: is there part of the process that saves the apps for you?
<MooDoo> oimon, can't remember - try looking at this - http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/topic/20119-cyanogenmod-7-for-the-htc-desire-cdma-v703-5-may-2011/
<oimon> cool cheers
<knightwise> ahaa
<knightwise> ommwriter is out for the ipad
 * daubers misread that as oomwriter and wondered why anyone would want an out of memory writer?
<knightwise> ah yes
<knightwise> that would make a great procrastination tool
 * daubers really needs a new videocamera :(
<oimon> watching that video clip of dave grohl chuck someone out of his concert lol
<MooDoo> *sigh* i'm so fed up
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's tends to be the case after Lunch if you were still empty it's time to worry :D
 * popey tickles MooDoo 
<MooDoo> davmor2, smart arse.
<MooDoo> popey, er not you as well
<MooDoo> #dd4814 is the new black :) lol
<popey> i was || that close to registering dd4814.com :D
<popey> and the other one
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> but now I have said that, MooDoo will do it.
<davmor2> haha
<davmor2> popey: that's devious
<MooDoo> popey, nope it's your idea :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: why you fed up chap?
<oimon> doesn't look much different from dd4813 though
<MooDoo> davmor2, just having a lack of motivation day :)
 * davmor2 preps the cattle prod
<davmor2> MooDoo: I can help with that
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> popey, yup looks like both domains are free ;)
<davmor2> popey: what would you do with it just a page of orange and a page of purple (umh aubergine)
<andylockran> happy days
<MooDoo> i would do that, just for the hell of it :D
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<davmor2> MooDoo: see popey goes out of his way to find you something to do and your not interested are you ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2, i've just created a page of dd4824 and i'm not that nasty to have it as a web page......yuk lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: well the other fun one would be a block of green with one pixel the right colour and play find the dd4814 and have linked to ubuntu.com :D
<MooDoo> davmor2, if the domains are still available when i get paid, i'll register them :D
<oimon> how much do domains cost noawadays?
<oimon> Â£3?
<MooDoo> nah
 * oimon has never bought a personal domain
<Azelphur> oimon something like that
<Azelphur> lmao, nice pidgin...it's glitched out and is saying there's like 4 of each individual person in this channel
<MooDoo> oimon .co.uk 5.58 which is for 2 years   .com 8.49 for 1 year
<MooDoo> that ex vat
<oimon> meh
<MooDoo> ?
<oimon> rather spend it on a curry lol
<MooDoo> heh
<oimon> my employer gives me unlimited web space if i want it
<MooDoo> oimon, mine too ;)
<andylockran> mine didn't
<oimon> trying chromiumos again with my eee pc
<andylockran> :@)
<MooDoo> although i'm am self hosting at the mo in my garage :D
<bigcalm> oimon: let me know how you get on
<oimon> bigcalm: i don't have high hopes..failed a few months ago, can't remember why
<hoover> hey biggie!
<bigcalm> Ah well
<bigcalm> Hi Hoovie :)
<Laney> gwibber is quite plainly refusing to show me some tweets
 * Laney stabs it
<oimon> interested to see gwibber has been rewritten to work properly
<MartijnVdS> does gwibber do g+?
<oimon> not yet
<oimon> nothing does yet
<oimon> due to lack of api
<Laney> tried to build the new version
<Laney> nothing doing
<oimon> boo
<oimon> the only thing that could entice me back to gwibber was a rewrite from scratch :D
<davmor2> Laney: you in oneiric?  if not then I thing a bunch of stuff won't build as it depend on gtk+ 3.0 iirc
<Laney> davmor2: no
<Laney> it ends up with some libdee api error
<davmor2> Laney: it's available in LP libdee it's new to oneiric
<Laney> i have it
<MooDoo> hmmmm wonder if the next ubuntu-uk meeting should be a google+ hangout one :) that would be fun :)
<Laney> i see, looks like it depends on some unmerged feature
<Laney> :q
<daubers> MooDoo: Unless you don't have a G+ account......
<MooDoo> well there is that :)
<davmor2> daubers: I think there are enough people that do that we can invite the people who aren't
<Laney> aha
<Laney> we have a build!
<daubers> davmor2: We should really do a big meeting where we organise a dozen pub type locations around the UK and have a big hangout that way. 2 or 3 (or more) people to a G+ hangout thing
<Laney> oh, no more multiple columns
<oimon> Laney: would be nice to see a screenshot if poss
<davmor2> oimon: there is a video
<brobostigon> i still think, we have had success with mumble, and that works.
<Laney> you don't want to see a screenshot of my desktop
<davmor2> Laney: you can do just the open window :D
<daubers> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523 Pastafarianism ftw \o/
 * oimon always likes to see desktop screenies
<Laney> erm ok
<Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/gwibber.png
<oimon> wow looks ugly :-\
<Laney> it looks better on the screenshots
<Laney> probably my gtk theme
<davmor2> oimon: http://ubuntuone.com/p/1487/
<oimon> davmor2: doesn't work i'm afraid. however found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqoaB5uvm-k
<davmor2> oimon: that similar
<davmor2> oimon: I can't wait for it to arrive in oneiric
<Laney> wah that I can't see my different twitter lists individually
<oimon> chromium vanilla works on my office laptop but not the eee pc :(
<Azelphur> just had an interesting convo with the irc protocol dev for pidgin :)
<Azelphur> apparently he's open to patches on implementing all the missing irc support pidgin has
<Azelphur> pidgin being a full featured irc client = cool, no? :P
<davmor2> Azelphur: I see you mistake there you put a ? instead of a ! it's an easy mistake ;)
<Azelphur> lol
<oimon> Azelphur: which features?
<Azelphur> all the unsupported irc commands that do nothing
<Azelphur> he seems ok with a "Message from server" mechanic being added to the core, and any unhandled IRC command reply being sent to that
<Azelphur> which would mean full support for all IRC clients \o/
 * oimon uses pidgin for irc
<oimon> + the irc plugins
<Azelphur> same
<Azelphur> but if you try and use any particularly useful commands, stats, motd, rehash, etc etc
<Azelphur> you get no reply whatsoever
<Azelphur> these can all be implemented reasonably easy in theory :)
<Azelphur> unfortunately my C's a bit too weak to do it as I'm more of a snakes guy
<davmor2> pidgin an empathy both do basic chat fine, and irc chat,  but I don't want them to do more than that,  for advanced features use a full blown client it's what they are there for and why they are better :D
<Azelphur> I don't see why pidgin can't be a full featured IRC client tbh
<oimon> pidgin is "better" for me because of docky integration
<Azelphur> I like the multiprotocol myself :)
<oimon> tells me the number of new messages via a number on the pidgin icon on the dock
<Azelphur> but yea, it'd be interesting if all the replies could be handled
<davmor2> oimon: I get the same thing from xchat in unity :D
<oimon> ah, cool
<hoover> cheers all!
<davmor2> popey: If you see this do not approach him he is a dangerous axe murderer and Ubuntu and Mac Fanboy ;) http://randall.executiv.es/ucw_oneiric_15
<davmor2> popey: you take a serious photo dude :)
<popey> davmor2: you are not the first person to suggest I look like an axe murderer
<popey> although why I would want to kill innocent axes is beyond me
<directhex> BLARG. who understands django?
 * popey points directhex at Daviey 
<davmor2> directhex: I don't
<davmor2> directhex I know a man in the pub who might
<davmor2> popey: haha nice, maybe the axe attacked your family then you'd want to murder it, you know it's true,  you're getting angry with axes now just thinking about it you know you are ;)
<popey> i am at peace with axes
<dutchie> directhex: i have been known to write in django once or twice, but nothing particularly deep...
<gord> i miss django :) it was kinda like minecraft, you started with nothing and built everything yourself rather easily
<directhex> ImportError: Could not import settings 'chronophage.settings' (Is it on sys.path? Does it have syntax errors?): No module named chronophage.settings
<davmor2> popey: hippy! ;)
 * popey points davmor2 at dholbach
<davmor2> popey: Why?
<popey> nvm
<AlanBell> evening all
<popey> Pip pip!
<brobostigon> afternoonings AlanBell
<gord> ahoy-hoy
 * AlanBell is in the pub so it is evening
<davmor2> AlanBell: Hello
 * brobostigon is jealous of AlanBell 
<brobostigon> although it is beer festival in my local, this weekend, :)
<AlanBell> theopensourcerer is here too
<brobostigon> cool. business or pleasure ? or both.
 * popey wonders which pub
<davmor2> popey: the one by the road
<MartijnVdS> with the people?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you been there too
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: all the time
<brobostigon> fternoonings MartijnVdS nd davmor2 o/
<MartijnVdS> evening brobostigon ;)
<davmor2> lo brobostigon
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> brobostigon: found a white eee 900
<brobostigon> popey: :)
<MartijnVdS> it seems like ANY qt app on oneiric + unity is broken atm..
<MartijnVdS> QWidget::setMinimumSize: (/MainWindow) The largest allowed size is (16777215,16777215)
<MartijnVdS> Calibre, Picard, VLC
<brobostigon> popey: wht cn i do, to acquire it or parts from it, from you, plese.
<gord> MartijnVdS, fairly up to date, qt apps work fine here
<MartijnVdS> gord: maximized?
<gord> yup
<MartijnVdS> gord: I don't have appmenu-qt installed, could that me causing it?
<MartijnVdS> compiz (opengl) - Info: Couldn't bind redirected window 0x4e00042 to texture
<gord> i use kdevelop as my IDE for unity, i would know if qt was broken ;)
<dutchie> directhex: does ./chronophage/settings.py exist?
<MartijnVdS> gord: oh and lots of thins like this  throughout the day:
<MartijnVdS> WARN  2011-07-13 18:25:56 glib <unknown>:0 Failed to fetch view type at /org/ayatana/bamf/application0x11868e0: Method "ViewType" with signature "" on interface "org.ayatana.bamf.view" doesn't exist
<gord> sounds like your system be crazy
<directhex> dutchie, yeah. turns out it was a permissions error.
<popey> brobostigon: what's up with your one?
<MartijnVdS> gord: it's a normal Oneiric system as far as I can tell
<dutchie> directhex: ah, ok :)
<brobostigon> popey: dead keyboard, due to me bad handling of a cup of coffee. most of the keys are dead.
<brobostigon> to my*
<MartijnVdS> aww
<directhex> dutchie, turns out www-data wasn't in the group which owned the files, which only mattered for the file which wasn't a+r
<popey> brobostigon: but the computer itself works?
<brobostigon> popey: everything up to now, tht i have tested, seems to be working fine, yes.
<brobostigon> i had some concerns about the touchpad, but that seems to be working fine.
<dutchie> directhex: ah yes
<ikonia> directhex: thank you for the note on custom text tones, you have made my day
<ikonia> popey: your collectors card is out of date
<directhex> ikonia, thank keybuk, saw it on his twitters
<popey> how so?
<ikonia> popey: it doesn't say Community council
<ikonia> directhex: I'm aroused by this
<popey> thats not out of date
<ikonia> popey: oh : ?
<popey> thats just "it doesnt fit"
<ikonia> ahhhh
<ikonia> it's doing you a disservice
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> it's not on the other side of the picture? :P
<popey> its underneath it
<popey> peel it back
<ikonia> I was hoping for a picture of his bum in tight pants
<MartijnVdS> in the alt tag
<popey> you need to get your fingernail right under it
<ikonia> (on the reverse)
<popey> O_O
<popey> â¥ even
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<brobostigon> popey: i think i might just get s simple usb keyboard, probeblky cheaper than trying to buy a new eeepc keyboard, i dont know yet.
<popey> well I am happy to post this one to you
<brobostigon> popey: thank you, how much do you want me to paypal you?
<popey> well.. have you seen there are loads on ebay
<popey> mostly under a tenner, many with free postage
<daftykins> hey all
<brobostigon> popey: i havent looked on ebay yet.
<popey> I'm kinda busy and it's hard for me to get to the post office, so can't guarantee when I can post it
<popey> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Asus-Eee-PC-EeePC-700-701-900-901-UK-Keyboard-Black-/270607965511?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_KeyboardsMice&hash=item3f017ddd47
<popey> for example
<popey> so if you're in a hurry, don't want for mine
<brobostigon> popey: no,i am in no rush, i digged out the thinkpad we had the xorg issues with, a few years ago.
<brobostigon> i will also research on ebay, as i havent looked there yet.
<brobostigon> although, as i found out then, it barely runs a terminal, and FF inside 121mb ram.
<brobostigon> popey: thank you.
<MartijnVdS> Time to try chrome/chromium?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: works even slower on this thinkpad. than the version of FF i had on 9.10,
<MartijnVdS> I think I'll just take my Xoom next week
<MartijnVdS> (to London)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: but there isnt much me trying to upgrade it. if so, i would probebly be putting debian on it, rather than ubuntu now. as it is more ram friendly.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and yes, i have chrome nd chromium from that period on this machine.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: must be a really tough old machine :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: quite, my thinkpad is/ws, i bought it ten years ago, while at college.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: <1GHz?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: 333mhz/
<MartijnVdS> I remember my first laptop
<MartijnVdS> a 600MHz thingy
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> took it to the first UDS (not called that yet) in '04
<MartijnVdS> december of '04
<brobostigon> cool
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: atm, as it was two years ago, it has openbox, with xterm, and that is about it.
<MartijnVdS> I sold mine long ago
<MartijnVdS> first, I replaced it with a https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam laptop
<brobostigon> it is my first, i dont think i would ever get rid of it. it is dead reliable aswell.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/HPNW8240
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I had a 1920x1200 screen in 2005 :) that rocked
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: cool, :) yeah.
<Laney> imagine you have a 500gb drive and 2x1gb in raid 1. how would you lay out a new installation?
<MartijnVdS>  /, /home
<popey> +1
<Laney> spiffing idea
<popey> or put it all on / on raid 1 and use the 500 for backups
<MartijnVdS> maybe /data and have /home and /srv be a symlink to /data/home and /data/srv so they share the room
<popey> redundancy and backups \o/
<MartijnVdS> backups of backups \o/
<Laney> i'll probably put /etc on there
<Laney> as well
<MartijnVdS> Laney: that might be harder
<MartijnVdS> Laney: as /etc is (a) small, and (b) /etc/fstab is required for a few booting bits
<MartijnVdS> Laney: also, /etc/init*
<Laney> before drives are mounted?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: only / is mounted at first.. it needs /etc/fstab to mount the rest
<MartijnVdS> Laney: if /etc/fstab is on a different fs, it won't work
<MartijnVdS> Laney: also, it won't know it should even do that if there are no init scripts/upstart jobs in /etc because /etc isn't there yet
<Laney> you could do it in the initramfs
<MartijnVdS> You could, but it would be fragile and prone to break
<Laney> not necessarily
<Laney> anyway, i'll probably use etckeeper instead
<Azelphur> Does anyone know what the input device is in this video? it looks pretty awesome :o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTx3G6h2xyA
<Azelphur> also, the video in general is awesome, how someone can mix 39 songs together, live, and have it sound that awesome is just plain awesome.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: matrix sequencer?
<Azelphur> looks like that's the right sort of thing, but was after specifics :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: mail them and ask :)
<Azelphur> haha
<MartijnVdS> why not?
<Azelphur> yea, I'll probably drop a comment
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2009/10/12/the-livid-block-may-just-be-the-sexiest-matrix-controller-yet/ ?
<Azelphur> fun :P
<MartijnVdS> http://lividinstruments.com/hardware_block.php <-- it seems to be one of these
<MartijnVdS> maybe a different model, but definitely like that
<Azelphur> yea, like that but a different model
<Azelphur> maybe not the same manufacturer either :P
<MartijnVdS> the buttons look the same..
<MartijnVdS> slightly brighter in the middle
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: found it in the comments, http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?client=ubuntu&channel=cs&q=launchpad&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=2285170420371418399&sa=X&ei=8uUdTvDLDMnNhAemp8nCBw&ved=0CE8Q8wIwAw
<Azelphur> :)
<MartijnVdS> ok so it's only 1/4 the price.. :)
<Azelphur> haha
<dogmatic69_> o/
<Pendulum> popey: is all your 'install Ubuntu on a Mac' stuff about completely wiping the drive before you install or is it using bootcamp?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you'll probably love Girl Talk as well, if you like mashups like this
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: link? :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://illegal-art.net/allday/
 * Azelphur downloads
<Azelphur> pro at masculinity, downloading music called girl talk
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: he's a dude though
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> Azelphur: he says what it is in the video description. why do people never reeeeaaaaaad it?
<Azelphur> haha, I did read it funny enough I just went straight past it
 * Azelphur facepalms
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: liking All Day?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: downloading, big file
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: didn't you select a multi-file version?
<ali1234> its still OBZ
<Azelphur> that's just a zip
<ali1234> i've got like 800mb of mash ups on a cd somewhere, from like 2003 when this stuff was all the rage and everyone was doing it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's still fun to listen to
<daubers> lo
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> evening all
<popey> Pendulum: "my" "install ubuntu on a mac"?
<Pendulum> popey: I thought you'd written up about installing Ubuntu on a mac somewhere
<popey> newp
<Pendulum> ah okay. nevermind then :)
<daftykins> i've never gotten a proper answer on whether it requires bootcamp use or can just be booted from the disc either, Pendulum
<daftykins> not that i own one, but i helped a couple of people once
<Pendulum> one of my mates may try Ubuntu used bootcamp
<jacobw> Tense mismatch
<MartijnVdS> Parse error. Core dumped.
<daubers> MartijnVdS: ewww.... not in the chat room!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: but.. but..!
<Pendulum> it's a brain fail day in my world. the fact that tense match is all I got wrong is good
<shauno> I don't think bootcamp is required is the machine is anywhere near recent (say, last 4 years, ish)
<shauno> *if the ..
<Pendulum> shauno: the person wants to dual boot for a while to get used to the OS
<shauno> that shouldn't be a problem.  the main bit bootcamp helps with now, is shrinking the existing partition & such
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: seems pretty good, it's not as impressive when it's not done live though :p
<Azelphur> it was more impressive because madeon did the whole thing on the fly
<ali1234> he didn't do the whole thing live
<shauno> if the machine is old enough that it came with tiger (10.4) preinstalled, it'd need bootcamp to add the legacy-compatibility stuff to the efi.  if it shipped with 10.5 or newer, it should be good out of the box
<ali1234> most of the set is programmed into ableton
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://ripremix.com/ -- watch that :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: a lot of it is live :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: less than you think
<Azelphur> good old copyright
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I can see what's going on, being a musician :p
<Azelphur> he's ripped certain parts of the song out before hand
<Azelphur> and the vast majority of it is him playing the clips live
<Azelphur> either that or he's just pressing buttons that do nothing in sync with the music :)
<Azelphur> impossible to tell the difference though on a pad like that, where as with a piano it's much easier to pick off if someone is actually playing
<ali1234> all he is doing is muting and unmuting tracks which are all already playing in sync
<Azelphur> yea, I can see that
<Azelphur> except that he's not, for large parts of the song he's actually got the thing rigged up like an instrument
<Azelphur> plus he's clearly following all the songs and knows where each one is at when he brings it back in
<Azelphur> which is a hell of a thing to do live
<ali1234> he knows where it is because he's already cut out and looped and synced that part and programmed it
<Azelphur> yea I can see what your saying, the buttons are loops from each song
<Azelphur> but yea it's still impressive to me :)
<Azelphur> and I'm a classical pianist, so it takes a reasonable amount to impress me
<oimon1> trying to root & load CM7 on my phone...getting scared
<Azelphur> oimon1: what's up?
 * Azelphur does his phones on day 1 :P
<oimon1> first it failed cos i didn't have enough space
<oimon1> then it rebooted the phone a few times..was getting scared.
<oimon1> now doing a nandroid backup
<Azelphur> you got recovery working?
<oimon1> performing backup now
<Azelphur> you got nothing to worry about if you have recovery
<Azelphur> you can't really brick if you have recovery
<Azelphur> what phone you flashing?
<oimon1> htc desire. which method is best for flashing with CM7? http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php?title=HTC_Desire_%28CDMA%29:_Full_Update_Guide#Flashing_CyanogenMod has 2 methods
<Azelphur> oimon method 1 is a GUI for method 2 :)
<oimon1> oh LOL
<Azelphur> ROM Manager is a GUI for Clockwork recovery
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> oimon you using clockwork right?
<oimon1> umm
<Azelphur> you trying to flash a nightly or release?
<Azelphur> when you was doing a nandroid backup, you rebooted into recovery right?
<oimon1> using clockwork yes
<Azelphur> cool, I like clockwork recovery :)
<oimon1> via unrevoked
<Azelphur> oimon nightly or release?
<oimon1> stable 7.0.3
<Azelphur> oimon1:  use rom manager then, nice and easy press button receive cyanogenmod
<oimon1> Azelphur: should i factory reset or format anything first?
<bigcalm> I'm surprised at how long 7.1rc1 has been out without an rc2
<Azelphur> oimon1: for first flash, it's generally a good idea to wipe before and after the flash
 * Azelphur lives on the edge, rom manager with the nightlies :P
<oimon1> scary man
<bigcalm> Azelphur: which device?
<Azelphur> HTC Desire Z
<bigcalm> Ok
<Azelphur> oimon1: the other day for april fools cyanogen made my phone have lots of ducks :(
<oimon1> Azelphur: but ROM manager does the wiping for me?
<Azelphur> oimon1: yep, just tick the wipe button
<Azelphur> and you obviously want google apps too
<Azelphur> oh wait, I'm not on cyanogen nightlies any more, I'm on miui
<Azelphur> I wonder if rom manager does miui yet
<oimon1> if it was a laptop i'd be 100% confident of this
<oimon1> but phones...
<Azelphur> oimon1: what you worried about?
<oimon1> bricking and/or losing cool setup
<oimon1> and not being able to get the phone back how i liked it
<Azelphur> oimon1: you can always download the firmware from htc and flash via recovery
<Azelphur> if you completely brick the OS
<Azelphur> so there's not much worry there
<oimon1> cool
<Azelphur> with android recovery you just get "update.zip" files
<BigRedS> you can brick to the point where you can't get into recovery, though
<BigRedS> I'm told it's hard, but I did manage it :(
<oimon1> how?
<Azelphur> BigRedS: indeed, but that's very difficult to do
<Azelphur> how on earth did you do it?
<oimon1> panicking and unplugging half way>
<oimon1> ?
<Azelphur> haha
<BigRedS> No idea, flashed a rom, took hours so I left it be overnight
<BigRedS> Got back to it and it was off, wont boot beyond showing the battery logo
<BigRedS> It was a galaxy S, apparently they do sometimes have flaky USB power somethingorother, so that may be to blame
<oimon1> did you ever get the phone unbricked?
<BigRedS> nah, I've got to take it to a T-mobile shop and claim ignorance...
<Azelphur> haha, that solves everything \o/
<Azelphur> did you hear samsung shipped a S2 to the CM devs?
<BigRedS> We tried making one of the special leads to get it into download mode, but that didn't have any effect, pondered getting a jtag but I'm gonna try for warranty first :)
<Azelphur> that phones gonna be shiny :D
<BigRedS> yeah, a couple of mates have got them
<Azelphur> BigRedS: have you tried fastboot?
<BigRedS> I think if I had an S2 I'd probably not feel an immediate need to re-'rom' it
<Azelphur> hehe
<BigRedS> Azelphur: not knowingly; what is it?
<Azelphur> BigRedS: it's a low level thing that you can send the phone a recovery image from
<BigRedS> I've a DHD from work now, which is why I'v enot gout round to sorting the Galaxy out
<Azelphur> it's the thing before recovery
<BigRedS> Azelphur: yeah, I think that's 'download mode'. Needed to create a USB cable with the right resistance between two of the pins
<Azelphur> nope, none of that o.O
<BigRedS> next down, AIUI, is JTAG which is very wrranty voiding
<Azelphur> you just plug into USB with normal cable and boot the phone holding volume or something
<Azelphur> and it goes into a manufacturer menu and waits for an image from USB
<BigRedS> Oh, those
<BigRedS> yeah, that is download mode
<Azelphur> I also think you can do it by putting a file with a special name on the SD card
<Azelphur> and it'll just flash it straight
<BigRedS> the buttons didn't work, so we made the cable which is a secondary thing
<Azelphur> I see
<BigRedS> Azelphur: the htc gold cards? Not found a samsung equivalent
<Azelphur> fun
<BigRedS> i'll have a bit of a look into it, though
<Azelphur> oh well, warranty saves the day hopefully :)
<Azelphur> oimon1: progress? :P
<oimon1> rom download complete
<BigRedS> yeah. And works' desire HD sort-of softened the blow :)
<Azelphur> oimon1: :D
<oimon1> giving me a few options
<oimon1> backup existing rom, wipe data and cache and wioe dalvik cache
<Azelphur> I suppose you want all 3 :)
<oimon1> i think i already backuped the existing rom (via nandroid backup?)
<Azelphur> yep, nandroid backups are just dd images fyi :)
<Azelphur> so yea, you can just wipe and boot.
<oimon1> decided to do a titanium backup first
<oimon1> should do this while watching the apprentice
<oimon1> /should/should not/
<Azelphur> oimon1: titanium only backs up apps
<Azelphur> nandroid is the one you want, titanium is largely useless
<oimon1> done nandroid too
<oimon1> :)
<oimon1> but thanks for the concern
<Azelphur> yw :)
<oimon1> Azelphur: tried rom manager to update the rom but got the ! in a triangle :(
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> oimon1: try going to recovery and doing a full wipe
<Azelphur> and then boot again
<Azelphur> if that fails, download cyanogenmod from the website and manually flash it in recovery
<oimon1> trying a manual flash
<oimon1> this is stressy
<oimon1> taking a long time to boot :S
<oimon1> BigRedS: what's the battery logo?
<oimon1> just showing circle logo at the mo
<Azelphur> oimon1: I just rom manager flashed MIUI on my DZ :)
<oimon1> something is happening..
<oimon1> had to pull the battery and go back into recovery
<oimon1> :(
<Azelphur> :(
<BigRedS> oimon1: the logo it shows when it's charging
<BigRedS> when it's off
<oimon1> i don't have one of those logos
<oimon1> looks like the update is occuring :S
<oimon1> ooh it worked
<oimon1> that was scary
<Azelphur> oimon1: woo\ o/
<BigRedS> whoo!
<Azelphur> oimon1: you might wanna try MIUI btw, it's cyanogenmod but with added shiny
<BigRedS> yeah, the first go is a bit scary
<BigRedS> And the first one on each device always takes longer than you're sure the first go on the last device took
<daftykins> i still haven't tried a modded ROM
<daftykins> i don't see any reason to
<popey> evening all
<daftykins> my Desire gets gingerbread soon :O
<jacobw> there's one very good reason to..
<jacobw> its fun :D
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> not really enough ;)
<popey> brobostigon: slight problem, I just powered up what I thought was a dead EEE 900.. and it's alive!
<jacobw> :o
<daftykins> could be temporary
<brobostigon> popey: thats well, :)
<popey> well, its bad for you :D
<popey> no spare kb now
<popey> as I would like to give these to my kids
<brobostigon> yes, but it is good it boots :)
<popey> well yes :D
<popey> if I can put an OS on them that they can use
<popey> thinking about chrome os
<brobostigon> ok, no worries.
<popey> but can't find a recent build
<brobostigon> no idea on thast one, oh well.
<popey> so grabbing the source to try and build myself
<brobostigon> thank you for your thought popey.
<oimon1> Azelphur: up and runnign with CM7..thanks for the support:)
<oimon1> my wife doesn't want it, says it looks like a man phone...she's right
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/78QN1.jpg
<daftykins> genius inventions
<Azelphur> oimon1 yw
<jacobw> daftykins: :o wow
<jacobw> the ironing board is great :D
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> the hairbrush strikes a chord with me, as i have long hair
<jacobw> ah, that's what it waws.
<jacobw> was* .. i thought it was a toothbrush :|
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> the manky stuff that collects at the bottom is nasty >_<
 * jacobw â night
<JGJones> Does the Apple firewire iSight work in Ubuntu?
<daftykins> http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/12/ben-hecks-xbox-360-automatic-disc-changer/
<daftykins> Azelphur: you'd love the above
<daftykins> more so if you game ^_^
<Azelphur> daftykins: I would except console gaming got boring about 10 years ago :P
<Azelphur> and CDs got boring at about the same time
<daftykins> rubbish good sir!
<daftykins> well, funny part is i install mine to the HDD in the xbox360, but you still need the disc in naturally Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> with LA Noire recently, a 3 DVD game, this was not fun
<directhex> ought to get around to la noire
<directhex> still haven't finished alan wake & red dead zombiefest, tbh
<shauno> consoles went downhill when I discovered my lightgun doesn't work with flatscreens :(
<directhex> shauno, a sad realisation for all Zapper owners
<daftykins> yeah i haven't gone back and 100%'d Alan Wake, but to be honest it wasn't that good to be worth of it :(
 * funkyHat falls over
<awilkins> The Wiimote does fix the zapper deficit
<directhex> daftykins, i need to do the DLC.
<daftykins> ah, i think i forgot to buy a second
<daftykins> i never thought i'd say it, but i'm glad not to have the hassle of PC gaming anymore too
<daftykins> not that it's ever too hard to get something working, but you don't even have to do that! :D
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-14
<daftykins> waaaa
<HazRPG> morning \o
<daubers> Morning
<HazRPG> I should really make a script to automatically change googe-chrome file each time an update comes out
<HazRPG> getting sick of having to manually edit that file :P
<HazRPG> usually don't realise it needs changed until I start watching a video
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> hi diplo
<j0nr> morning folks
<MooDoo> morning
<j0nr> is using an rsa ssh key pair only more secure if you disable ssh password authentication as well?
<j0nr> so you _have_ to have a key to get in
<j0nr> what if you loose your key??
<AlanBell> morning all
<dwatkins> hiya
 * AlanBell is in the Federal Ministery of Economics and Technology in Berlin
<MooDoo> Guten Tag! :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "Guten Tag, you're it!"
<MooDoo> lol
<DJones> Morning
<MooDoo> morning
<dogmatic69> o/
<danfish> morning
<danfish> j0nr: yes, and don't loose that key!
<j0nr> danfish: but _what if_ you do??
<j0nr> not that I have danfish
<j0nr> I still have password auth on, due to paranoia
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] What's your t-shirt? - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/07/whats-your-t-shirt.html
<danfish> j0nr: depends on the system you're accessing - is it a vos?
<danfish> s/vos/vps
<oimon> had a minor disaster with my phone last night
<MooDoo> oh dear :(
<oimon> put cyanogen on it and lost all my contacts
<oimon> i thought they were backed up to google?
<oimon> thats what my pre-flashed desire told me
<MartijnVdS> oimon: they should be
<MartijnVdS> oimon: if you entered a Google account
<MartijnVdS> oimon: check it by logging into gmail and clicking the "Contacts" link
<MartijnVdS> if you don't have gmail on your google account, that's your problem
<oimon> i see a flash of htc garbage on the contact sometimes
<Daviey> hang on... contacts can be local, google, or other provider like ubuntuone
<Daviey> i suspect the contacts were set as local
<oimon> :(
<oimon> i suspect now too
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: I can't don't do that on my Nexus One
<Daviey> (/me did the same thing, and lost a 'few' but ot all)
<MartijnVdS> they're always tied to a "provider"
<oimon> any way to retrieve them from a nandroid backup?
<Daviey> MartijnVdS: sucks2beyou
<Daviey> oimon: pass.
<MartijnVdS> which is either Google, Twitter, Facebook, Last.fm, etc.
 * oimon has a little cry
 * Daviey gives oimon a pony.
<DJones> Heh, just had an alert on my phone to say that a google+ contact has posted a message, didn't realise the app did that as well
 * MartijnVdS gives oimon a bucket of pink paint to go with the pony
<oimon> even worse, i must have moved them from my sim to local :'(
<danfish> oimon: if you've done a nandroid backup you should be fine
<oimon> i don't wanna reflash it though
<oimon> just to extract the info
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: that's going to be harder
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
<popey> http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/05/29/extracting-files-from-a-nandroid-backup-using-unyaffs/
<czajkowski> good morning lovely peoples!
 * oimon hugs popey
<MooDoo> czajkowski, oi who are you and what you done with the real czajkowski
<czajkowski> I am in good form
 * Daviey takes a double take at going to mdz's blog.. "Your organization's Internet use policy restricts access to this web page at this time."
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski 
<czajkowski> had drinks with Daviey yesterday nice to catch up with people
<Daviey> yes.. yes it was!
<MooDoo> czajkowski, awesome......i must get down to london one day to meet you all
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you say that, but I'm sure your Davemor2 double
<czajkowski> never see the 2 of ye in the one place
<MooDoo> czajkowski, hehe ;)
<MooDoo> czajkowski, after baby is born i'll come down and prove you wrong :p
<bigcalm> This is why Saturday and Sunday evenings of oggcamp are going to be fun :D
<Daviey> s/fun/hurt/
<seeker> Daviey: In other words, "stop slacking" :P
<czajkowski> Daviey: jon and I got nandos afterwards were starving
<MooDoo> bigcalm, i can't go :(
<Daviey> czajkowski: oh lovely... I had a macdonalds. >:(
<bigcalm> MooDoo: poo :(
<oimon> i have the contacts on a titanium backup but unfortunately restore didn't work
<bigcalm> oimon: did you mess up your phone trying to install cm7?
<oimon> bigcalm: not "mess up" fortunately, just realised my contacts/phone numbers were not living on google servers
<czajkowski> Daviey: at least you made it home! we started to watch um,,,, one of the die hards as well
<czajkowski> nice evening to round of a shite day
<bigcalm> Whoops
<Daviey> czajkowski: rocking.
<bigcalm> czajkowski: it's good to see you happy :)
<MooDoo> +!
<oimon> ah, looking at my nandroid backup, i see the contacts data stored in providers.contacts rather than contacts.
<oimon> i wonder how to restore that db
<HazRPG> oimon: just been reading through the scroll-back, erm... can't remember if you already done it... but have you logged into your google account and checked that they're not their?
<oimon> HazRPG: yeah, there's only 10 numbers there. the others must have been local instead.
<HazRPG> I didn't realise you could do that
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: maybe it's a HTC Sense "feature"?
<MartijnVdS> (\o/ Nexus, in that case)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Heh, yeah I did notice you mentioned you have a Nexus One too :P
<HazRPG> I bought mine straight from google.com/nexus ;D
<MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for the "Nexus 3"
<HazRPG> haha same
<HazRPG> Mainly because the Nexus S is already outdated (no dual-core processor :()
<oimon> ok i realise i've been a bit silly
<oimon> if i nandroid backup right now, then i can restore the old backup, get the contacts and restore the new backup again. i was thinking i'd have to re-flash DOH
<HazRPG> doh indeed
<HazRPG> oimon: well, one thing you could do, if you do revert back, use an app to backup the contacts... and also make sure to sync your contacts up properly with google :)
<HazRPG> oimon: oh, wait hang on...
<HazRPG> oimon: erm... you say only some of them were synced up to your account?
<oimon> about to find out :)
<HazRPG> oimon: sounds odd that it would only sync a few and not all, have you tried clicking on "Other Contacts" on gmail?
<oimon> yeah
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> hmm
<oimon> looks like i've been a numpty at some point
 * daubers is happy waiting for the official ROM for his SGS2
<HazRPG> did you disable syncing with the desktop widget at some point and just never enabled it back? Because that will explain why only some of them are  there
<oimon> HazRPG: no idea, i think it may have been a sense think when i origianlly setup
<HazRPG> possibly
<HazRPG> (I knew sense was a bad bad idea!)
<HazRPG> (so glad I went on gut instinct, and didn't get a phone with it on)
<oimon> i like sense but had to CM7 it cos my phone was full
<HazRPG> been telling people for years not to get a phone with it on (but people ignore me :/)
<HazRPG> oimon: Hmm?
<HazRPG> oimon: You getting the 20MB low disk space message?
<gord> have known a lot of people who are very happy with sense
<HazRPG> Cos I'm currently finding that a pain at the moment ;/
<oimon> HazRPG: yeah, after installing loads of stuff that i actually wanted.. mails etc were not coming thru
<HazRPG> gord: I haven't met a single person yet that has actually said "sense is good"
<oimon> sense is good
<MartijnVdS> Sense is senseless
<gord> i have met lots :)
<HazRPG> gord: no way :o
<gord> i don't personally really like it myself though
<HazRPG> o.O
<oimon> HazRPG: if you go to oggcamp you will meet me, and i will say "sense is good"
<oimon> my wifey likes it too
<HazRPG> :o
<HazRPG> D'oh! I can't use that reason for not getting a phone with sense now o.O (all ruined! :P)
<oimon> doesn't require much knowledge or setup
<oimon> some good defulat apps
<oimon> and theme
<HazRPG> I'm still going to recommend against sense though :P
<oimon> taken me 18 months to root/cm7 it, for the reason i stated
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Sense clutters the UI. Another reason :)
<HazRPG> sense is mainly about the theme if I recall, and basically changing a few of the default apps a little bit
<DJones> My phone has sense on it, but I never know which part is sense & which part is android, can't say I've ever had a problem with it though, the only thing I conciously use is the friendstream
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: s/little bit/lot/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: True, but my point is that its basically just the open-sourced stuff google pushed out, and they've sat and coded on-top of to give it a theme = sense ui
<oimon> sometimes cm7 offers to reboot in recovery mode and other times the regular reboot screen..not sure what i'm doing
<HazRPG> Because I've seen sense on other peoples phones, and little things like the contacts, etc look very similar to how it would have been originally... but with a different skin and an added "feature" or two
<bigcalm> sense ui is more than just a theme, it's a resourse hog
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: except it's too big (install 1 app and memory is full), is non-standard, and they should work WITH google not against it
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: You'd think, right :/
<oimon> i also prefer the htc facebook app
<oimon> much better
<HazRPG> I prefer Google+ :)
<HazRPG> I hated how Facebook stole my friends :(
<oimon> ?
<directhex> there's a reason for things like sense
<HazRPG> currently, I'm sat on MSN... and so far I have 1 person logged in
<HazRPG> the other 100 or so are offline, and have been since getting a facebook account :/
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Sense is a place where the PROBLEM should have been solved, not papered-over by writing more code
<DJones> Just a thought, if HTC phones have "Sense", does that mean non-HTC phones have "Non-sense" :)
<oimon> MartijnVdS: which problem?
<directhex> hardware vendors badly want to differentiate themselves in the market. it's hard to do that when you've got, say, an LG and an HTC which are near-identical but one is much cheaper
<directhex> MartijnVdS, there are features from sense i miss from my use of vanilla roms
<oimon> sense is a nicer theme and better default apps
<oimon> if you are a noob you are grateful for the ontroduction
<HazRPG> oimon: vanilla has the introduction too as of 2.2 iirc
<oimon> restoring my sense backup to get the contacts :-\
<oimon> certainly android has caught up since 1.6
<directhex> android is just a bit... desktop linux. you know those guys with conky and panels and stuff all over the place? that's how android feels to me
<oimon> :P
<oimon> in a good way, right?
<HazRPG> directhex: well yeah, I understand why they do it... but surely a skin would be all you'd need to make yours look different - maybe make an app or two different, to make it more desirable by people... but fully changing it and breaking things in the process is not cool :(
<oimon> even with sense, wifey and my phones looked completely different
<oimon> now with cm7 mine looks like a "man phone"..cm7 is not v female friendly
<HazRPG> My phone looks different too, with adw launcher :3
<HazRPG> the launcher was the only thing that really needed to be changed
<oimon> you prefer that to launcher pro?
<HazRPG> launcher pro caused more trouble then was needed
<oimon> how come?
<HazRPG> I don't know, it just seemed like it was going for the whole "wow look I can do this, and I can do that..." but not actually finishing any of them
<directhex> i don't remember what launcher i have. i don't really care
<gord> i decided to be different and i just use stock android
<gord> cos i'm crazy like that
<HazRPG> Only reason I wanted to change the launcher was because I wanted to have a different set of application lists (e.g. one for games, one for commonly used, one for specific tasks, one for all)
<HazRPG> gord: other than the launcher, I use stock too
<directhex> widgets. sense has some good widgets. still haven't found a good replacement calendar widget
<HazRPG> one thing I really dislike about android's message application though, is the fact that the timestamp is when the phone received the message and not when the message was actually sent (from the header of the message)
<oimon> nandroid backups are cool :D
<HazRPG> that really frustrates me, because I went to Egypt to see my mum's family... and I got a SIM to use while I'm there... I come back, load up my UK SIM back up, and all the messages tell me that they were sent that day (when clearly they weren't)
<oimon> booting into htc backup, contacts are stored "on phone" :-\
<HazRPG> e.g. "You going to pub on the 10th?" when it was already the 21st.
<oimon> must have been when i still cared about privacy
<HazRPG> oimon: heh, seems that way
<HazRPG> oimon: just realised I didn't answer your question earlier, yeah I'm heading to oggcamp :)
<oimon> still doesn't allow me to exprt them to google
<oimon> i will be on saturday, sunday is still unknown
<HazRPG> oimon: don't need to export them, load up the android settings
<HazRPG> go to "Accounts and Sync" and make sure "Auto-sync" is on, and then click on your google account and tick "Sync Contacts"
<HazRPG> you'll see an icon appear next to where it says "Sync Contacts"
<HazRPG> wait for that to disappear, and then that means all your contacts were synced over
<HazRPG> open gmail to confirm this... and your done :)
<MartijnVdS> same with calendar
<MartijnVdS> \o/ gcal sync
<HazRPG> indeed :3
<oimon> doesn't work strangely
<HazRPG> I have mine set to sync pretty much everything :)
<HazRPG> oimon: what happened?
<HazRPG> did the "sync disc" icon show up and then disappear?
<oimon> yep, but doesn't sync the contacts
<HazRPG> hmm odd
<HazRPG> hang on, I'll see if there's a SenseUI way of doing it
<oimon> the app is called "people"
<MartijnVdS> oimon: the app, or the account you created them in?
<oimon> the app
<oimon> the account is google :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: don't you have a normal "contacts" app?
<oimon> don't think so
<HazRPG> you should... I think
<HazRPG> because the main framework will loaded up from "contacts"
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it could be sense-senselessness
<oimon> yeah
<HazRPG> alright, round two
<HazRPG> erm...
<oimon> also the reason why i thought google had them
<HazRPG> remove the google account from that sync menu I told you about earlier
<HazRPG> and then add it back
<HazRPG> (according to the htc website, you have the option to sync when you add it in)
<oimon> ah, i found another way
<oimon> export to sdcard
<oimon> import to gmail via website using the vcf file
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> good, because I was going to say there's a warning on the htc website saying "Â If you skipped signing in to a Google Account when you first set up your phone, you may encounter problems when using some Google applications. If these problems persist, you may need to factory reset your phone and enter your Google Account details when you set up the phone again. To factory reset your phone, seeÂ Performing a factory reset (hard reset)."
<oimon> :D
<oimon> wow
<oimon> u guys have been helpful thanks
<HazRPG> :)
 * HazRPG likes fault finding and solving :)
<HazRPG> when is oggcamp again ;s?
<oimon> !oggcamp
<HazRPG> august? I have a feel its august
<HazRPG> seems there isn't a factoid for that
<HazRPG> august 13/14
<HazRPG> hurrah \o/
<AlanBell> !oggcamp-#ubuntu-uk is Oggcamp is a two day unconference on August 13th/14th 2011
<lubotu3`> AlanBell: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: am I still picking you up on the way?
<oimon> gonna try restore my cm7 image again...phew
<oimon> what a palaver
<HazRPG> oimon: indeed... be thankful you backed up though :)
<MartijnVdS> next time, check backups before wipe
<oimon> basically a bug in sense
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: surely "make sure you backup everything individually" would be the lesson here :)
<oimon> hmm
<HazRPG> its what I do :)
<oimon> i did titanim backup too
<HazRPG> but that's because I get sick of losing stuff when I rely too much on "this will backup everything" programs
<oimon> my SD must be full of crap now
<HazRPG> for example, when I bought my phone, I initially created a new account for it (basically the same name I use for everything but with ".android" at the end) so that everything can get synced there, and be self contained... I then copy out the contacts every so often into my main gmail account, and also get evolution to pull that information out onto my desktop :)
<HazRPG> I've even got a backup of my evolution stuff, so that if things go really tits up, I have a copy somewhere ;D
<oimon> 64-bit flash released for linux \o/
<HazRPG> I also have my main google account added on my phone, but that's just because I like reading my emails where-ever I am :)
<HazRPG> oimon: o'rly!?!?! :O
 * HazRPG goes to find it
<oimon> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/07/14/0210259/Adobe-Released-64-bit-Flash-For-Linux?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=twitter
<oimon> although slashdot article have been rather incacurate lately
<HazRPG> bout time, that things been in beta for too long now
<oimon> about to receive an athlon 64 x2 processor for my PC :D
<oimon> my home pc has been neglected a bit of late
<AlanBell> !oggcamp
<lubotu3> oggcamp is a two day unconference on August 13th/14th 2011
<AlanBell> !oggcamp
<lubotu3> oggcamp is a two day unconference on August 13th/14th 2011 - See http://oggcamp.org/
<AlanBell> even better
<brobostigon> HazRPG: on way what?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oggcamp ^_^
<HazRPG> AlanBell: woot :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: no idea,i havent thought about it recently.but yes. a lift, would be good, thank you.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I hadn't either, until oimon reminded me of it
<oimon> 1 month today :D
<HazRPG> oimon: Hmm, slashdot is partly right - but Flash 11 is still in beta: http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer11.html
<HazRPG> oimon: got released yesterday it seems
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, i see, nearer the time, lets plan times etc.
<oimon> btw how can i force the faecesbook app to always show "most recent" instead of "top news"
<HazRPG> oimon: err... browser, or on your phone?
<oimon> phone app
<HazRPG> pass
 * HazRPG plays with phone to find out
<HazRPG> brobostigon: cool, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: will do
<HazRPG> oimon: as far as I can see, news feed already shows "most recent" and not top news
<HazRPG> but that's on the standard facebook application
<oimon> ok lol, will try again later to see if it's changed again
<HazRPG> well mine says the last update was "a few moments ago" and then there's one for "5 minutes ago"
<HazRPG> on the website, the "top news" the first one shows "30 minutes ago" so yeah my guess that its already set to most recent is correct it seems
<HazRPG> oimon: I'd suggest checking your profile on the website, and see if the first one on your app matches the first one on your "most recent"
<HazRPG> and then check the "top news"
<HazRPG> should answer that problem for you :)
<bigcalm> "Plugin container for firefox" taking 209,556K. W . T . F ?
<HazRPG> bigcalm: flash by any chance?
<bigcalm> Yes
<HazRPG> *sigh*
<bigcalm> But never this bad
<oimon> hmmm android market not sending apps to my phone :(
<HazRPG> flash always does that, in chrome I tend to kill flash every hr or so, to stop it growing too much
<HazRPG> that and "flashblock" helps too :)
<bigcalm> Thing is, I'm playing music from SoundCloud
<bigcalm> So flash has to run
<bigcalm> Might run it from another machine
<HazRPG> oimon: mine was doing that the other day, they must be changing things in the market... because they recently taken out the "Facebook Sync" on some versions of phones (my friend found this out on his Nexus S)
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> Absolute 80's is quite upbeat this morning :)
<HazRPG> bigcalm: is it a playlist? Or you just clicking back and forth between different songs?
<bigcalm> HazRPG: a playlist
<oimon> aix weather widget is a nice weather app
<HazRPG> ah, was going to say just kill flash after each every x number of songs, but if it's a playlist, that might be a pain
<bigcalm> Yup
<HazRPG> bigcalm: try Flash 11 beta ;D
<bigcalm> On windows?
<HazRPG> might help things (hopefully?)
<HazRPG> yup :)
<HazRPG> http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer11.html
<bigcalm> I've plugged my headphones into my dev server, will play music from there
<HazRPG> there's a 32-bit and 64-bit version on there too (along with all browsers and OS's)
<dwatkins> http://bugs.adobe.com/flashplayer/
<dwatkins> I accept the flash player shouldn't be growing in memory usage (although I don't know if it's the player or a flash application causing it) but the more voices that raise issues on there the better.
<dwatkins> Also, you can enable logging for the flash player in ~/.macromedia/Flash_Player/Logs by creating a ~/mm.cfg with two lines in it:  http://livedocs.adobe.com/flex/3/html/help.html?content=logging_04.html
 * dwatkins notes he appears to have killed the conversation
<daubers> Any suggestions for managed web hosting in the UK?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: bytemark?
<bigcalm> +1
<daubers> MartijnVdS: yeah that's one option on the table. I'd go to bitfolk if I was running it but it's for my mums company, so a managed service is better
<Kirrus> Positive-Internet.com (I work for them, I have to say it ;))
<Kirrus> You won't find better managed-level support outside of rackspace, probably :)
<Kirrus> Well.. and bitfolk.. ;)
<daubers> Kirrus: if you get a call from Boori by a lady called Jane, that's my mum :)
<daubers> Kirrus: So be nice!
<Kirrus> daubers: Probably won't be me taking the call, unless she asks technical questions ;)
<Kirrus> But if I do, I'm always nice :P
<daubers> Kirrus: Probably unlikely...
<Kirrus> daubers: I've asked the ladies answering the phones to put her through to me if she does :)
<daubers> Kirrus: Heh :)
 * daubers does the thing that Daviey hates and pipes cat through less
<gord> i like doing that on projectors at sprints/uds, because you know someone is gonna twitch
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> someone did that in a best practices talk I was in, complained at the end that nobody told him off for it
<daubers> heh :)
<bigcalm> Literally cat foo.txt | less
<bigcalm> ?
<BigRedS> Nah, it was a grep
<BigRedS> cat foo.log | grep something
 * bigcalm grins at the trolling genius
<davmor2> Kirrus: Get all of his secrets off his MOM and hold daubers to ransom for the rest of his life Muhahahahahahahahaha
<BigRedS> haha
<daubers> bigcalm: yup
<popey> if i start searching google for "unnecessary use of" it pre-fills with three options...
<popey> unnecessary use of long words
<popey> unnecessary use of horn
<popey> unnecessary use of cat
<popey> \o/
<popey> http://partmaps.org/era/unix/award.html
<BigRedS> haha!
<davmor2> popey: you mean you've been looking up unnecessary uses for cats man your evil leave the cats alone evil man
<oimon> HazRPG: u on CM7?
<HazRPG> oimon: nah, vanilla :)
<oimon> my market problem might be a cm7 issue: http://forum.xda-developers.com/archive/index.php/t-1072349.html
<oimon> can't install angry birds or maps
<popey> CATASTROPHE!
<daubers> Oooh... didn't realise reading had a hackspace
<oimon> maps is one of the main things i use my phone for..haven't played AB for a long time
 * daubers attempts to make contact
<DJones> Arggghhhhh, this computer system at work makes me feel like I've gone back to the dark ages
<bigcalm> oimon: I have CM7.1rc1 and maps work for me
<bigcalm> I don't have Angry Birds currently installed though
<daubers> oimon: But does it make phone calls
<bigcalm> oimon: also, save your battery with a setting change. For some reason, the default setting in CM is for wifi to go to sleep. This should be set to never: Settings -> Wireless & network settings -> Wi-Fi settings -> Menu -> Advanced -> Wi-Fi sleep policy -> Never
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Who uses a smart phone to make phone calls?
<MartijnVdS> phone whatnows?
<bigcalm> For a while, with cm6.x, I couldn't make/recieve calls. Living on the edge is fun :)
<oimon> bigcalm: thankyou for the wifi thing.
<oimon> fixed the maps/AB thing with a symbolic link ..ugly
<oimon> will remove it when new CM comes along
<oimon> sorry for spamming the U-uk irc for android issues today :)
<BigRedS> aw, dammit. I meant to go and lie^M talk to T-Mobile this morning :(
<bigcalm> Not like we've got anything on-topic to talk about
<oimon> not sure if i regret switching to CM7 yet :P
<bigcalm> I didn't
<oimon> it's been a painful day so far though
<Kirrus> BigRedS: told you you shouldn't have been jabbering me :P
<davmor2> daubers: how ever did your windows 7 trip go I forgot to check in
<daubers> davmor2: 90% of what I do every day I could do in Windows :)
<daubers> davmor2: The other 10% could be done, but had me arguing with C# in order to write stuff to do it
<oimon> daubers: did you measure your productivity though?
<davmor2> daubers: so you prefer to use linux still then :D
<oimon> i only rebooted the other day to add a 1gb net card..uyptime was > 2 months
<bigcalm> Everything I do can be done in Linux, except there are 2 bits of hardware with no Linux support. So, I'm stuck :)
<BigRedS> Kirrus: ah, I'd got back by then
<Kirrus> BigRedS: sounds like an excuse to go out again.. :P
<BigRedS> Kirrus: but I'm actually generating working code now :)
 * oimon wonders if popey looks like the collectors card pic or his profile pic, since they are rather different
<popey> one is uhm
<popey> one is very recent
<popey> one is over a year old
<oimon> i consider a profile pic new if i still own the clothes i was wearing. in some cases, that could be 15 years
<popey> :D
<popey> i still own that shirt
<oimon> i drink out of a pint glass each day that has "1995 UMIST Real Ale festival" written on it
<daubers> oimon: I tried, but it's hard to measure :)
<MooDoo> hmmmm real ale festivals :D
<samantha> hi, i am having trouble installing vlc 1.1.x as lucid keeps installing 1.0.6 even after i have updated, plz help!
<DJones> samantha: How are you installing 1.1.x?
<MooDoo> samantha, tried the PPA? - http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppas/89
<samantha> DJones, using sudo apt-get install vlc
<samantha> MooDoo, will try
<samantha> i was using vlc to view dvb-t but too many segmentation faults :(
<samantha> DJones, as prescribed on the download page for vlc
<DJones> Looks like 1.0.6 is the latest version in Lucid
<DJones> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/vlc
<samantha> oh dear
<DJones> Looks like there are ppa's with 1.1.10 in though
<MooDoo> https://launchpad.net/~ferramroberto/+archive/vlc  here is one
<samantha> i can send hubby back on the roof to tweak the ariel again :$
<samantha> MooDoo, that first link is umm not working
<MooDoo> samantha, sorry the first link was for natty not lucid sorry, here is a ppa with vlc for natty in it - https://launchpad.net/~ferramroberto/+archive/vlc   vlc 1.1.10
<MooDoo> i so can't type today, i hope you inderstood that
<samantha> thanks
<DJones> This post refers to teh same ppa http://www.multimediaboom.com/install-vlc-1-1-10-in-ubuntu-11-04-10-10-10-04-ppa/
<MooDoo> yay
<MooDoo> i have my uses....not a lot :)
<samantha> it's just that the vlc download page says it will take no responsibility if i install 1.0.6, which is the version lucid is installing
<MartijnVdS> samantha: Ubuntu applies security patches
<samantha> ok MartijnVdS
<samantha> i think, i should have the ladders out of the shed for him so when he gets home he can pop up on to the roof and reposition the ariel
<samantha> simpler!
<MooDoo> :)
<MartijnVdS> in this storm?
<samantha> umm, <<checks insurance
<samantha> lol
<samantha> you have a storm? not a cloud in the sky here
 * DJones looks out of the window at the sunshine
<samantha> thanks for your support folks, i must leave
<samantha> bye
<MooDoo> quiet again :)
<DJones> Yup
<DJones> All must be good in the world of ubuntu-uk, no problems, no complaints, just happy users :)
<brobostigon> maybe, yes.
<MooDoo> or they are all at the pub having a beer
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> I will be very soon
<brobostigon> well beer fextival weekend in my local, so i will wait till tmrw.
<daubers> :( beer
 * brobostigon haz hefeweizen in the fridge.
<AlanBell> !virus
<lubotu3> Antivirus is something you don't need on !Linux. except where files are then passed to windows computers (perhaps using samba), See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus
<daubers> !AlanBell
<daubers> What's an appropriate low cost eat out dinner option when your wife just got a first?
<danfish> daubers: I don't think there is I'm afraid
<bigcalm> daubers: Greggs
<daubers> danfish: Rubbish
<bigcalm> Subway
<bigcalm> Oh, got a 1st, not had a 1st child
<bigcalm> Cafe Rouge?
<daubers> bigcalm: very definatley the 1st, very definatley not first child!
<popey> daubers: Frankie & Bennyâs
<popey> âº
<daubers> popey: Oooh ... good one :)
<bigcalm> popey: f&b is great if you don't mind the noise
<danfish> local curry house doing midweek special
<popey> low cost, good food, cocktails I guess if you want to splash a bit of fun
<bigcalm> The f&b by us is very noisey, is that common?
<davmor2> daubers: If you have to leave your table to order you went to the wrong place ;)
<popey> we took the kids to the cinema recently and i went in f&b for the first time
<popey> seems okay to me if you're not a food snob :D
<bigcalm> It's great fun :)
<daubers> heh f&b have an android app
<bigcalm> Time to convert some tesco club card vouchers into Cafe Rouge / Pizza Express tokens :D
<popey> STOP IT!
<daubers> Had very bad experiences in Pizza Express
<bigcalm> Only had good experiences with PE's
<daubers> bigcalm: We went in one on our honeymoon and where esssentially sat in an open kitchen with kitchen noises surrounding us
<danfish> na na na na nandos FTW!
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> ooooo
<bigcalm> I have 1.25 free chickens waiting for me at Nandos
<popey> i found nandos to be less than great
<popey> oooo, how about that place where they write your order on the table?
<bigcalm> Wagga momma?
<danfish> popey: that's my kids at my house ;)
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.wagamama.com/?
<popey> thats the one bigcalm
<popey> thats a good one
<bigcalm> I'd rather go for Sushi
<popey> nice atmos, good food and medicinal sake
<daubers> Oooh.. wagamama is also good
<popey> i find sushi always makes me think "I wish I'd had a burger" after
<bigcalm> LOL
<daubers> sushi always thinks "HOW MUCH?"
<bigcalm> You're going to the wrong places then
<Daviey> sushi always looks better than it tastes.
<bigcalm> Meh
<DJones> sushi always make me think "I bet they wish they'd had a cooker"
<popey> i like _some_ sushi
<Daviey> bigcalm: you are wrong.
<Daviey> popey: But.. does it look better than it tastes?
<bigcalm> http://www.woktastic.co.uk/ # noodle and sushi bar - buffet sushi ftw!
<jpds> Damn, now I want to go and eat Japanese.
 * bigcalm resists the smut
<danfish> Sushi reminds me of the Simpsons puffer fish episode
<Daviey> bigcalm: Okay.. next time i'm in Brum, i'll consider it.. but if it's crappy, i will hunt you down.
<bigcalm> Daviey: I'll join you!
<Daviey> bigcalm: nah.
<bigcalm> :'(
<Daviey> :D
<bigcalm> Don't you like me no more?
 * bigcalm goes looking for coffee
<Daviey> bigcalm: Okay, okay - if you pay, you can come.
<bigcalm> Daviey: Hayley and I go on a Sunday now and then. The manageress likes us and gives us free stuff
<Daviey> bigcalm: oh great.. but do they make you share a spoon?
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/HCv7wSWEyP2
<daubers> birminghams a bit far out for an evening out....
<bigcalm> Hayley is coming to this year's Oggcamp as well
<Daviey> \o/
<oimon> i like the sushi place where you have a conveyor belt with food on
<bigcalm> Woktastic is such a place
<directhex> conveyor belts are the normal serving mechanism aren't they?
<bigcalm> That's what I thought
<popey> depends, some are
<popey> i have been to ones without
<bigcalm> They were in Japan (well the ones I visited anyway)
<popey> I'd really like to go to an Ethiopian restaurant again, went to one that had great food.
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conveyor_belt_sushi
<oimon> very pricey though
<oimon> well the K10 in moorgate is priecy
<directhex> easy to spend 60 quid on dinner for 2 at sushi places
<bigcalm> Woktastic's conveyor service is a one price buffet. They also have a menu for extra items you can order for extra cost
 * bigcalm stops pimping them
<oimon> i would go , but they are far waway
<bigcalm> Cafe Rouge then ;)
<oimon> chez oimon
<popey> To the pub!
<popey> TTFN
<Daviey> o/
<davmor2> popey: I know you need know incouragement but have one for me :)
<Kirrus> Speaking of sushi conveyors, did you see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gua47iSif4
<Azelphur> I wonder if tonights giffgaff update will support auto topup on goodybags :p
<MartijnVdS> Wow
<MartijnVdS> oneiric is rough today
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: about a million and one popups from apport?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: that, and no unity panel (back to unity2d..)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Oh I didn't get that
<MartijnVdS> also, apps not showing windows (QT ones mostly -- picard, vlc, calibre)
<MartijnVdS> vlc and picard even manage to crash the window-decorator *sigh*
<MartijnVdS> (and, as a programmer and internal release manager at work, I wonder if people test their changes at all before uploading)
<gord> you don't do code-reviews before letting people commit?
<MartijnVdS> gord: at work, yes we do. we also require the test suite to pass
<MartijnVdS> gord: I'm wondering how Oneiric can break so spectacularly
<gord> MartijnVdS, oh i didn't read up, thing is about your problems, its not happening for anyone who's developing unity or uploading it, so of course things work fine here so we upload
<MartijnVdS> gord: this means the unit test suite is not comprehensive :)
<MartijnVdS> (I know, the GUI bits don't have one.. my opinion is that they should)
<gord> MartijnVdS, no, it means there are eight billion different bits of hardware, all with their own drivers and quirks. its called an alpha for a reason
<MartijnVdS> gord: gnome-settings-daemon crashing is NOT a hardware problem
<MartijnVdS> Unity not displaying, sure, that can be a 3d driver bug or hardware quirk
<gord> i wasn't talking about gnome settings daemon now was i
<directhex> shrink shrink shrink
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Booting with EFI - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/138188.html
<brobostigon> new torvhwood, soon. bbc1, in 10 mins.
<brobostigon> torchwood
<daubers> lo
<the4thdoctor>  irc.lug.org.uk
<YDdraigGoch> anyone used shout2send in streamer?
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011 if some wants to go through that, checking links and grammar that would be awesome
<AlanBell> and finding pictures on the linked pages and putting them in the wiki page
<brobostigon> AlanBell: when is our deadline again ?
<AlanBell> this cycle
<AlanBell> but it we are late czajkowski will frown
<StevenR> AlanBell: I'm overly picky about spelling, grammar, etc... is that useful just now? :)
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> and remember
<StevenR> woo
<AlanBell> it *is* a wiki
<StevenR> :D
<AlanBell> so edit at will
<brobostigon> ok, i will have a check. in the morning, i am too tired, to convetaret properly.
<brobostigon> concentrate
<AlanBell> heh
<AlanBell> that is a good sounding word you just made up
<brobostigon> hmmm, quite.
<HazRPG> oimon: not sure if your still about, about your maps issue... if I recall CM7 has a tutorial on its website somewhere about putting "google-based apps" back in
<HazRPG> not sure what it actually shows, but might be worth looking for (I'd try and find the page for you, but I'm very at the moment)
<HazRPG> very busy*
<StevenR> AlanBell: does Ubuntu-UK have a statusnet/identica tag/thingy?
<StevenR> AlanBell: right. I've done some editing, given up now because my brain stopped being able to improve stuff.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Thunderbird In Ubuntu 11.10 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/14/thunderbird-in-ubuntu-11-10/
<justinBUJITSUBRO> iam lokking for xp os for use in my virtual box can anyone tell me where to get the iso?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i feel alone ...
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-15
<MooDoo> morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<DJones> Hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> AlanBell, how were your meetings in london?
<AlanBell> jolly good :)
<AlanBell> in Germany now
<AlanBell> but basically, yes, we are going to do what I proposed
<MooDoo> AlanBell, blimey, do you do a lot of travelling?
 * DJones wonders whether sabdfl has a connection problem
<AlanBell> not that much these days
<MooDoo> AlanBell, so what's in germany today then?
<AlanBell> in the Bundesministerium fur Wirtschaft und Technologyie
<AlanBell> http://www.odfplugfest.de/
<MooDoo> cool.....
<jpds> No, that's alwys there, not just today.
<AlanBell> indeed, it has been here for a while
<jpds> AlanBell: http://tinyurl.com/5wjavx8
<jpds> AlanBell: Best Currywurst place, ever.
<MooDoo> someone having connection issues?
<DJones> Not just someone, "The One" even
<DJones> I did think about setting a forward to ##fixyourconnection, but probably wouldn't very politic to do that :)
<MooDoo> DJones, hee hee :)
<popey> Morning all
<jpds> popey: Morning.
<MooDoo> morning popey how are you this morening?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<oimon> HazRPG: morning, just saw your message on scrollback, thanks, i already fixed the issue using adb shell and a symbolic link :D
<oimon> CM uses a download cache partition that's too small (and shares it with dalvik cache)
<oimon> i must say, google plus isn't really getting a massive following amongst my acquaintances
<MooDoo> oimon, 10 million people so far
<AlanBell> I have 139 Ubuntu people, 22 LotusGeeks
<AlanBell> not much else
<popey> great
<popey> MooDoo: saw your tweet about adsense
<oimon> AlanBell: plese say lotus car and not lotus notes :D
<popey> You need to get a crate load more visitors to have any hope of people clicking ads
<AlanBell> oimon: Notes
<popey> and need to appeal to non-techies, who wont have adblock
 * oimon loads his gun
<DJones> I was going to suggest lotus flowers
<AlanBell> I am a retired LotusGeek
<jussi> is there an adblock for andorid?
<popey> MooDoo: take OMGUbuntu for example. They earn crazy amounts of adsense money
<popey> because they get metric tonnes of hits
<oimon> know how much popey?
<popey> i do
<TheOpenSourcerer> jussi: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Adblock+for+Android
<popey> (maybe)
<popey> It's pretty amazing what they've done with that site
<MooDoo> popey, my site is pretty crappy at the moment to be honest, i think tha's part of the problem.....
<oimon> there was certainly a niche in the market
<MooDoo> and i don't blog enough.....content is king
<popey> i dont think thats the issue âº
<popey> ok, chaps I have a question for you
<popey> imagine you're going to an event such as "OggCamp", on a scale of 1 (not annoying) to 10 (really annoying) how annoyed would you be if there was no free wifi there?
<MooDoo> popey, normally i wouldn't be bothered, but as it's a techy event, i would say 8/9
<AlanBell> is there cheap wifi there?
<oimon> i'd say 5 for myself, since i have mobile internet on my phone
<BigRedS> It's free, not at all. There's never wifi at LPWs and nobody minds
<popey> AlanBell: please answer the question
<popey> âº
<AlanBell> s/cheap/fast/
<jussi> popey: 9
<AlanBell> I would be annoyed if there was no wifi
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Not that bothered - have unlimited data plan on my phone and service is "ok" at the maltings.
<popey> BigRedS: LPW?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 2/10
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: what network?
<BigRedS> popey: london perl workshop
<TheOpenSourcerer> O2
<popey> ta
<oimon> popey: maybe word it another way: if the wifi was X pounds per day/hour, would you pay it, or use mobile 2g/3g instead
<AlanBell> actually, I have a phone I would tether, I wouldn't give a toss
<popey> please forget pay wifi
<popey> I was very clear on my question
<AlanBell> 1
<popey> I'd like to keep it to that
<MooDoo> 8
<dogmatic69> popey: 0
<dogmatic69> as long as there was mobile signal that is
<bigcalm> popey: 1. the event is partly about connecting with people there, not over g+
<BigRedS> so 0 , in case you're doing fancy parsing of logs to get votes
<AlanBell> 1 personally, would be interesting from a video perspective if there was stacks of upload bandwidth
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: you mean actually talk to people :S
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: mobile signal is fine
<MooDoo> shall we just answer his question with numbers?
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> For those presenting, a connection might be useful. But people should be prepaired
<BigRedS> I think we should trunk 3G devices to get enough bandwidth to upload video
<MooDoo> i that's what he wants
<awilkins> 22dB
<bigcalm> popey: i
<popey> ok
<popey> so the venue doesn't have wifi coverage over all the rooms
<popey> I am trying to sort some kind of solution
<popey> but it's expensive
<bigcalm> Have wifi in one room so that those that can't live without twitter can update
<BigRedS> though LPW does have hard-to-saturate 3G coverage as something of a mitigating circumstance. But it's normal there to not be dossing around on the net in talks
<awilkins> Could a mesh network be erected that used the existing connections as a gateway?
<bigcalm> popey: how good is the building's fabric at blocking 3g signals?
<popey> pass
<popey> its an old building
<popey> listed so running cables is hard
<bigcalm> Hummz
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<bigcalm> I'm almost tempted to not bring a laptop this year
<bigcalm> But then, how would I play minecraft?
<awilkins> Old buildings tend to block RF better than newer ones (unless the newer one has been designed to do so)
<oimon> but there would be wifi zone somewhere? that's not bad at all
<bigcalm> Get somebody on a unlimited data plan to tether. Does mean them staying put all day
<oimon> i'd like to reduce my score to a 1 if there is wifi somewhere in the building
<bigcalm> Just knowing that there is wifi, even if you don't use it?
<BigRedS> It's in a town, isn't it? Surely there's a cafe within reasonable distance that'll do wifi for the cost of a coffee for those who somehow need it
<BigRedS> ?
<bigcalm> MacDonalds has free wifi...
<oimon> maybe there should be a talk about disconnecting from the internet
<bigcalm> oimon: nicely volenteered
<oimon> :D
<bigcalm> volenteered
<oimon> volunteered
 * BigRedS imagines a demonstration of unplugging a cat5 lead and then nothing else
<bigcalm> Yes, my copy failed
<oimon> maybe rigged up to a heart monitor
<HazRPG> oimon: ah, good stuff ^_^
<HazRPG> also, morning all
<oimon> as we see ..the patients heart rate returns to normal after 15 minutes
<MooDoo> oimon, i did last week when i was on hols in whitby, it was refreshing to have no internet
<MooDoo> not even a phone signal
<oimon> twitter is better when you refresh once a day and read all the stuff
<oimon> rather than every 10 mins
<oimon> cos u realise so much of it is dross
<czajkowski> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi czajkowski
<bigcalm> oimon: depends upon whom you follow
<MooDoo> czajkowski, aloha :p
<czajkowski> oimon: depends on who you follow i regularly hae great discussions with people interactively with them via twitter
<oimon> tbh i tend to use twitter rather differently, mainly as an rss feed
<oimon> AKA one-way communication/broadcast feed
<oimon> i think i'm just not a twitter fan
<Daviey> czajkowski: 'great' discussions? :)
<DJones> oimon: I use twitter in the same way, mainly as a news feed rather than two way communication
<czajkowski> well myself and acruiz had a good old rant there yesterday about the use of Mac OSx being used to give keynotes at oss events
<MooDoo> czajkowski, is it really that much of an issue?
<AlanBell> I am currently being amused by the number of people here presenting about ODF using .ppt files
<AlanBell> not all, some are using .odp
<oimon> i am often surprised by the number of people who develop for ubuntu and tweet from their mac
<MooDoo> oimon, most are using ubuntu in  virtual box type situation ......
<oimon> i find it bizarre. noticed a few people who have been staunch ubuntu fans and then got a mac and go on about it for ages.
<directhex> tsk.
<directhex> i developer for debian from ubuntu, does that count?
<oimon> e.g. ryan paul and the omgubuntu boys
<czajkowski> MooDoo: pisses me off no end
<czajkowski> directhex: yes but you're special in a good way :)
<BigRedS> I only use Ubuntu at work...
<MooDoo> BigRedS, i use fedora at work.....
<BigRedS> ew
<MooDoo> bigcalm, if it works i'll use it, i'm not fussed what the os is
<MooDoo> but that's a discussion for another year :)
<BigRedS> I was amused to see a couple of windows laptops at fosdem
<daubers> lo
<MooDoo> lo daubers
<MooDoo> BigRedS, i've seen that too, but they are normally work laptops
<czajkowski> BigRedS: one guy 2 years ago presented on one in the keynote room
<czajkowski> interesting talk
<czajkowski> but there was much heckling going on about his windows machine
<oimon> freedom ideology is quite a big part of why i use linux. not in an extreme RMS way, but it is still significant
<JGJones> I use Ubuntu - at home and at work (in last 2 jobs) and now as freelance, it's still ubuntu
<AlanBell> if anyone is feeling bored please feel free to go through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011 and add dates when we did stuff, and link in pictures
<AlanBell> and add extra stuff
<Daviey> I use Ubuntu/Linux because i don't know how to use other OS's :)
<MooDoo> JGJones, i use a mixture of ubuntu, fedora and windows 7
<JGJones> MooDoo - I don't have Windows 7 - I haven't even used it yet. I can't find a reason for paying for it - it's not going to bring me anything that I can't get with Windows XP or Vista which I already have OEM licences for)
<dogmatic69> anyone know if afplay is available for ubuntu?
<brobostigon> !info afplay
<lubotu3> Package afplay does not exist in natty
<dogmatic69> any idea how to play .wav from cmd then?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: mplayer?
<daubers> AlanBell: Reading through that list, we should really make an Ubuntu board game
<MartijnVdS> daubers: "Community Chest" -> "Community Council"?
<dogmatic69> is there a easy command for terminal to see if a program is installed?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: dpkg -l or apt-cache policy
<MartijnVdS> that or just type its name :)
<dogmatic69> ye, just want to do something like if[ installed foo] ..
<daubers> MartijnVdS: "CEO Stuck on ISS after missing his shuttle home, miss a go"
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: if [ -e /some/binary ]; echo "/some/binary exists"; fi
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: if [ -e /some/binary ]; then echo "/some/binary exists"; fi
<dogmatic69> a ye
<dogmatic69> nice
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: check "man test" for more
<AlanBell> or "which gedit" to get the path to the binary
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: locate foo works also
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: if it's in PATH
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it works but it's not instant
<dogmatic69> which is better
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: locate-info only gets updated once a day
<dogmatic69> ah, and which?
<MartijnVdS> which is instant, but requires the binary to be in $PATH
<dogmatic69> sure
<MartijnVdS> !xyproblem
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: Which problem are you trying to solve?
<dogmatic69> well im just doing if(notEmpty(which foo)){ foo $params} // excuse the fake code
<MartijnVdS> what are you trying to accomplish?
<dogmatic69> im trying to support something on mac and linux
<dogmatic69> so if there is afplay its mac, if not its linux
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: easier way:
<dogmatic69> or, if there is afplay use afplay, if there is mplayer use it, etc
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: case "`uname`" in
<MartijnVdS>   Linux)
<MartijnVdS>   do_linuxy_thing
<MartijnVdS>   ;;
<MartijnVdS>   WhateverMacosReturns)
<MartijnVdS>   do_mac_thing
<MartijnVdS>   ;;
<MartijnVdS>   *)
<MartijnVdS>   help_dontknow_what_to_do
<dogmatic69> ye, that is possible
<MartijnVdS>   ;;
<MartijnVdS> esac
<MartijnVdS> sorry for hte on-channel coding :)
<dogmatic69> i think doing which for the player is better as it could support others
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you can have the case fill a variable and use that
<andylockran> howdy guys
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> popey: beep beep
<andylockran> that's Â£32.43 please - thanks for shopping with andylockran enterprises
<gord> that's pretty good value
<andylockran> gord: yeah.. setting up scanners to scan the product code of scanners to do asset tags
<andylockran> I should have just pointed them all at each other and done a single click to scan them all at once
<daubers> andylockran: mirrors?
<davmor2> happy friday all
<MooDoo> hullo davmor2
<andylockran> heylo davmor2
<bigcalm> \o/
<gord> wish someone would do rfid for all groceries already
<bigcalm> rfid?
<gord> rfid tags?
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> RF ID
<daubers> bigcalm: Bit like aphids, but completley different
<bigcalm> daubers: my mind could not parse the it any other way than as a word
<daubers> heh
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka happy Friday it's here at last man it's been a long week
<MooDoo> davmor2, tell me about it, busy weekend for me too.......:S
<MooDoo> davmor2, got anything planned?
<davmor2> trip to the black country museum and a chillout kill things sunday
<bigcalm> Ooo, haven't been to the bcm since I was a child
<davmor2> bigcalm: ditto
<bigcalm> I liked the barge trip through the tunnel the most
<MooDoo> never been myself to be honest, wife is having a garden party say
<MooDoo> saturday
<bigcalm> Ok, Saturday
<oimon> seen that game "beep" they mentioned on OMG? looks fun
<oimon> in a world of goo kind of way
<shauno> I really wish they'd tell us before they turned the water off.  Letting me fill the kettle first seems like a common decency :/
<oimon> toiiet cistern? :P
<shauno> this thought has already occured ;)
<oimon> probably as clean as the water tank
<oimon> actualyl there may be pigeons and rats in the water tank
<shauno> in theory, yeah.  but with an ick value that'll leave it until I'm desperate
<oimon> scrape ice from the freezer...
<AlanBell> kitchen taps are from the rising main, not the water tank
<AlanBell> so you don't drink too much dead pigeon
<oimon> how about "kitchenette"?
<Laney> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/261495_10150252580572473_511097472_7723229_2758211_n.jpg
<shauno> you shower in pigeon :)
 * oimon doesn't have a water tank, but the office does
<oimon> combi boiler ftw
<shauno> I dunno if we have a tank, actually
<shauno> given that the loft is a bedroom, I can't think where they'd hide it
<oimon> in the remaining loft space?
<shauno> I'm not sure there is any
<shauno> in other news, a job I applied for sent me to a questionaire on surveymonkey that had all the usual interview questions.  never seen that before.  rather awkward.
<oimon> why awkward?
<shauno> it's odd not being able to get a feel for what they're actually looking for
<oimon> is it like a pre-interview filtering?
<shauno> I hope so
<fvlinux> Hi for all
<fvlinux> I was here in the last days because I'm without job...
<fvlinux> If somebody have in your company or other company a lot of computers for refurbish
<fvlinux> I willing to refurbish some computers for have something to do
<fvlinux> if you can help me, please, send me an email vfontanella at gmail dot com
<fvlinux> thank's
<dwatkins> fvlinux: where are you located?
<fvlinux> dwatkins: London
<AlanBell> maybe talk to fossbox fvlinux
<dwatkins> I know of a company in Doncaster that does computer refurbishment, there are lots of them around.
<dwatkins> Most municipal tips probably employ a firm to collect discarded computers for recycling, since there's a fair amount of stuff that can often be re-used in them. I suggest speaking to your local council about it, or look up such firms in the local yellow pages.
<fvlinux> dwatkins:I was looking for these companys...but  no answer
<fvlinux> may they have fear I start a bussiness :)
<dwatkins> perhaps, yes
<dwatkins> the firm I visited in Doncaster had about 6 employees, and some of the guys there were really good at repairing PCs, whereas some of them didn't have a clue.
<DJones> fvlinux: It would probably be a good idea to send an email to the ubuntu-uk mailing list as well, there was some discussion abouut that type of thing a month or so back (I think)
<fvlinux> dwatkins: do you have the name of this company?
<fvlinux> Djones: I sent an amail days a go for ubunu-uk mail list
<dwatkins> fvlinux: somewhere, yes
<fvlinux> but I don't know if moderators have sent my email for /dev/null
<popey> <- moderator
<fvlinux> popey: do you are moderator of the list? :)
<popey> i see no mail waiting
<popey> yes
<popey> one of them
<fvlinux> humm
<fvlinux> I don't have recive nothing since that
<fvlinux> let me see is the Rigth list...
<popey> do you use gmail?
<fvlinux> yes
<popey> you only see your own mail to lists if somoene replies to it
<popey> thats normal for gmail
<fvlinux> popey: well...
<fvlinux> popey: I'll send again
<popey> hang on
<popey> what address did you send it from?
<fvlinux> vfontanella at gmail dot com
<popey> i see no mail from you
<popey> and you dont appear to have subscribed to the list
<matti> popey: LOL @ http://gscreenlaptop.3dcartstores.com/ ;d
<popey> mad isn it?
<matti> Do they fold somehow?
<matti> ;d
<dwatkins> wow, is that real?
<matti> dwatkins: So it seems ;d
<popey> one screen goes behind the other
<DJones> http://gizmodo.com/5346996/gscreens-dual+screen-spacebook-coming-soonish
<dwatkins> I'm still waiting to hear about te Noteslate, which is a nifty idea - kinda like a Kindle you can write on.
<dwatkins> They made the marketing mistake of promising stuff on facebook and now people are going off in a huff because they are taking longer than they said they would.
 * popey promises cookies on facebook
<dwatkins> Hooray! We're all going to have cookies!
<popey> ruh roh
<dogmatic69> \o/ cookies
<gord> cookies?
<dwatkins> I have no cookies yet, I am enraged!
<dwatkins> I shall demonstrate this by posting lots of angry messages on popey's facebook page and point out where I can get alternative cookies from, and that I'm off to buy them instead.
<dwatkins> They posted recently on the Noteslate facebook page saying they're still solving problems. It remains to be seen if they actually will have a marketable product.
<dogmatic69> i dont see the point of that
<dogmatic69> can just download a drawing app for my ipad
<AlanBell> but that isn't e-ink display
<dogmatic69> but i can switch to a game when im done and get my mails too
<dogmatic69> not goign to carry 2x  just to draw on.
<AlanBell> that would not be a benefit for some use-cases
<BigRedS> I'd like that for appending to things on a kindle
<BigRedS> rather than as a genuine dawing thing
<BigRedS> appending to? annotating
<dogmatic69> if you dont have a ipad/tablet yet, and will never get one, and you want to draw on something that is not paper... maybe
<dogmatic69> small market, yes
<BigRedS> well, I quite like my kindle for reading from, but none of the advantages apply to a tablet
<BigRedS> but it's horrific to type on, so I don't. It'd  be nice to write in the margins exactly as I do a real book
<BigRedS> well, almost exactly
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: exactly
 * dogmatic69 likes 16mil colors and hd res
<AlanBell> different pricepoint too
 * BigRedS likes easy to read text and long battery life
<dogmatic69> 10h on my ipad
<AlanBell> it is an etchasketch, they still sell
<dogmatic69> mostly use it for reading
<BigRedS> a few weeks on my kindle
<dwatkins> I would find an e-tablet really handy if I could use it to take down notes whilst on the phone then e-mail myself a copy of the display.
<dwatkins> I don't have an ipad, and paper is easy to lose etc.
<popey> there are kindle like devices you can write on
<popey> the iliad irex was one
<fvlinux> popey: Only for note, I have to apologize, I sent an email to ubuntu ony no -uk.
<fvlinux> popey: but I sent minutes a go an email to the list.
<fvlinux> popey: Thank's for your help. ;)
<BigRedS> q
<DJones> y?
<BigRedS> odd. that was aimed at vim and I both missed vim and the colon
<bigcalm> Pondering Harry Potter sometime soon. Not sure if I want to bother with the 3d bit though. Thoughts?
<JGJones>  "Harry Potter is about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight is about how important it is to have a boyfriend." -- Stephen King
<JGJones> just saw this quote
<BigRedS> yeah, I enjoyed that
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> I don't have a boyfriend, on noes
<MooDoo> made me smile
<MooDoo> bigcalm, you can get one, they are quite cheap from tesco :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm thinking I could kill whooper meal right now if that helps?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: ask Pendulum
 * bigcalm tickles davmor2
<bigcalm> Pendulum: *poke*
<davmor2> bigcalm: No to 3d until it is actual holograms on a table it's only 2 1/2 d at best and you look a muppet in the glasses :D  hope that helps
 * MooDoo can't see 3d :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: you could if it was holograms on a table :)
<gord> davmor2, what you really want, is a play
<gord> very 3d
<davmor2> gord: yeah but the special effects suck, unless it's a magic show
<MartijnVdS> You want a holodeck?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: Pendulum was saying the 3d glasses are like Harry's glasses
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: hell yeah
<gord> i'm one of the few people that actually like 3d :) glasses are a giant pain though i agree, 3ds does things right
<davmor2> gord: agreed the 3ds is way better than the 3d on tellys too
<oimon> never seen a 3D film
<WelshDragon> Anybody compiled breakpad before? It's failing to link for me: "undefined reference to `dlclose'"
<gord> i don't get people who rage about 3d at all, i can understand not wanting glasses and not wanting to pay more for it, but some people seem to be vindictive against 3d, just the every idea is offensive to them somehow
<gord> personally i think objects looking solid in my media rather than like paintings is a good thing
<oimon> gord:  probably because there is a link between 3D movies and crap story
<oimon> and sequels in general tbh
<gord> nope thats not it, they go see the movies in 2d instead
<directhex> correlation does not imply causation
<MartijnVdS> as xkcd proves today :)
<JGJones> 3D give me an headache and eyesores - because I watched some "3D" films with subtitles (cinemas now do subtitled films yah) and...urgh...it's not pleasant reading subtitles on a 3D screen.
<directhex> JGJones, i don't see how it would be possible. you can't focus on the peripheries with 3d movies
<JGJones> directhex, the subtitles obviously are along the bottom of the movie - but with the 3d getting in the way etc, it somehow make reading subtitles a pain.
<davmor2> gord: I think it sucks cause it isn't 3d and is a blatant lie to call it such can you see the action from the side or behind? if the answer is no then it isn't 3d it's blurry 2d with shadowing enhancements and optical illusion.
<JGJones> And it's usually white.
<JGJones> Get a bright scene in the movie?
<davmor2> stereographic telly would be better :)
<JGJones> Good luck reading that...
<JGJones> but I'm not complaining...at least I GET subtitles in a cinema which is something.
<AlanBell> hmm, youtube has a 15 minute video limit
<AlanBell> what do I do with a 32 minute video?
<JGJones> I complain more about the daft and silly times that cinemas put on subtitles (one cinema stopped showing subtitles completely because they said no deafies ever turn up to watch it)
<gord> its not really an optical illusion, if its blurry then it was done wrong
<JGJones> Not surprisingly because that cinema was showing subtitled films on a monday morning only.
<davmor2> gord: no it just means you're sat off center
<JGJones> deafies do work, we'll have to take a day off to watch it and who like going to cinemas in the morning? :)
<JGJones> but apart from that...it's great to watch films in a cinema
<JGJones> gord - I'm sure I read that they do purposely make some part of the screen a bit blurry so that the focus is on what they want you to focus on or something like that
<gord> davmor2, sitting off centre wouldn't make it blurry
<gord> JGJones, anyone who does that is a terrible cinematographer
<JGJones> gord - plenty of them around.
<JGJones> gord it's called Hollywoord.
<JGJones> \s\Hollywoord\Hollywood
<gord> JGJones, yeah but they screw up 2d movies too ;) its not specific to 3d
<davmor2> gord: oh it did when I sat straight on it was perfect moved to the side and it was no longer pin sharp
<gord> davmor2, sounds like a crap projector
<davmor2> gord: Although I don't like it and mock it to hell,  I always tell people to try out the 3d tellys in stores to see how they get on with it
<davmor2> gord: sorry I was talking tv not cinema sorry
<gord> oh well 3d tv's are notorious for being crap - frankly its tricky to get one that works well
<awilkins> JGJones, You could do subtitles that only the deaf people could see with 3D tech
<awilkins> JGJones, Only it would have to be a 2D showing
<awilkins> You just polarize the subtitles and provide polarized glasses that block them for all the hearing people
<davmor2> gord: I don't go to the cinema every since they found it compulsory to deafen the audience :D
<awilkins> Hell, yes, what's that about? The guy who adjusts the volume goes "Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk, this one goes up to 'leven, Cleetus!"
<oimon> MartijnVdS: i thought today's xkcd was about combining 2 axes :P
<awilkins> What, like the Darth Maul model of axe?                                                          ;-)
<oimon> ah, one of my favourite bad lines from a film "only sith deal in absolutes"
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a dwarf in my D&D party :P
<gord> i have a projectionist friend in norway, big film buff, very perfectionist when it comes to providing a good experience. he came over to the uk to watch some movies that came out early here and for a holiday last year. he didn't enjoy how crap most uk cinema's were ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: it's not much better over here
<oimon> my issue is the sticky carpet
<MartijnVdS> except maybe in "artsy" cinemas with 3-4 seats
<MartijnVdS> ok 30-40 but you get the idea
 * awilkins wonders if it would work better if the projectionist wasn't imprisoned in the booth but could join the audience and tweak things via an app on his phone
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: they don't get paid enough, I think
<MartijnVdS> just a one-week crash course as well, instead of a good training
<gord> the technology is changing which is making it harder to provide a good experience, its so computer controlled and locked down these days
<MartijnVdS> and don't forget that more people are deaf from ipods
<awilkins> Ah yes, the whole "if you don't get an auth code from this internet site before changing 3D filters, we'll brick your projector" gubbins
<MartijnVdS> and likely to complain that "you should turn up the sound!"
<awilkins> It staggers me the number of people I hear irrevocably screwing up their hearing.
<oimon> really?
<awilkins> Well, OK. MAybe I'm not surprised. I *am* aghast.
<oimon> from loud ipods?
<oimon> how loud can you actually listen to UUPC without it getting uncomfortable? ;)
<awilkins> If your phones sound loud to me on a train, or your car stereo sounds loud to me with your windows closed, you're doing soma damage
<oimon> agree
<awilkins> I have some in-ear ones that are virtually inaudible even when they're not in your ears
<oimon> i don't understand - when i take off my earbuds i can't hear them from 1 foot away, so why can i hear some guys music (every word and chord) from 12 feet away
<awilkins> Much more polite, and don't damage your hearing because they block out exterior noise so you don't turn them up
<oimon> i think the default ipod earbuds are made inside out
<awilkins> The worst of it is, when we're old, everyone will shout at us because they think we went deaf in our 30s
<oimon> i do think i have tinitus but i think it's unlreated
<popey> Ooo!
<JGJones> oimon, I've got tinitus - pain in arse...so play lots of music, helps a lot.
<JGJones> awilkins, interesting idea actually. in UK - we get subtitles on screen. In USA, a bit different, one method is that they get a dedicated screen that they place in a cup holder and adjust it so that it's in front of a cinema screen
<oimon> gets worse when i'm tired,
<JGJones> and you read subtitles on that screen and view the film thru the screen
<JGJones> however you must sit in a very specific spot, and not move - it's not very much liked
<JGJones> Some cinema's in USA are now experimenting with putting subtitles via an app on a iPad - worst idea ever...I do not want to hold a iPad and read subtitles on that and then look at screen.
<awilkins> JGJones, You really need hud-glasses
<awilkins> JGJones, It can only be a matter of time until such things are practical
<gord> hud glasses with speech recognition software, you could subtitle everything :)
<awilkins> "phenomenoscopes" ala Neal Stephenson / Diamond Age
<JGJones> http://www.yourlocalcinema.com/ - currently for UK - I use this page for looking up when and where subtitled films are in the local area
<awilkins> Since you're not going to get the hearing people to all wear glasses, next stupid idea... maybe you could project subtitles in light and it's anti-light simultaneously... polarize them a little differently and issue polarizing glasses to people to filter out the anti-light component (I have no idea if that's even technically possible, surely minute variations in the screen would totally screw up the wavefronts)
<awilkins> Maybe a bit like the way you can see rainbow patterns in laminated glass and plastic while wearing polarized sunglasses
<JGJones> awilkins, that's the system I mentioned that's used in USA - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Rear_Window_Captioning_System
<awilkins> JGJones, Pretty klunky but functional
<JGJones> it's not very much liked though - ie sometime your head might get in way blocking the subtitles etc, and sometime you must sit "in the correct area" and not move etc
<awilkins> JGJones, I imagined it being on the ceiling
<JGJones> The subtitles that I watch - are "burnt" into the screen - but the downside is that they are only shown at specific time and dates (ie using yourlocalcinema.com to find out when and where) as cinemas claim hearing folks hate them
<awilkins> might work better on the ceiling
<JGJones> I'm sure a lot do hate it, but then whenever I go to watch a popular film that's subtitled, there's plenty of hearing folks in the room too and they don't seem too bothered to me.
<JGJones> oh well...one day, they'll come up with a perfect solution meaning I can go and watch any film at any time with subtitles that isn't in the way for others :)
<JGJones> Hmm interesting...
<JGJones> Real time text in jabber
<JGJones> http://www.marky.com/realjabber/
<awilkins> I saw mention of this, thought it might be a subset of the Wave stuff
<awilkins> Not sure I like realtime text chat though
<awilkins> Even the "Someone is typing" notifiers have their downsides
<JGJones> it was developed by a deafie - as for text relays, realtime is very useful.
<JGJones> currently it's a bit like this - IRC - when I type my reply, the other person have to wait until I finish my sentence and send it before the text relay operator can voice it over
<awilkins> I'm more concerned with people seeing my typos and that I don't accidentally type "what an ****hole" in the wrong window without the ability to retract it
<awilkins> But I do see the plus side
<awilkins> I quite liked Wave, which had this feature from the outset
<awilkins> Shame it didn't catch on, really
<MartijnVdS> whoa.. 80% of the Netherlands is without FM radio coverage atm
<MartijnVdS> One tower had a fire and collapsed, another was turned off because of fear of short-circuit of some kind
<awilkins> The whole Netherlands is covered by three FM radio towers????
<awilkins> THat's what you get for being flat.
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: well, 20-ish, but 5 big ones
<MartijnVdS> http://radio-tv-nederland.nl/map/Kaart%20met%20alle%20publieke%20nationale%20FM%20zenders%20in%20Nederland.pdf  :)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: but the big towers feed the (repeating) smaller ones
<zleap> where are the display settings in ubuntu
<bigcalm> Anybody fancy givine me an answer to this? http://cuth.eu/aircon
<popey> bigcalm: I paid 400 or so for mine
<popey> at a non-brand garage
<popey> zleap: what do you mean?
<popey> zleap: if you're on 11.04 then press the button in the top left and type "monitor"
<bigcalm> popey: did you go for branded parts?
<popey> no idea :D
<popey> probably not
<zleap> hmm
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> I have to ask myself; do I want to save Â£110 or Â£205?
<bigcalm> popey: and thank you for not ansering "yes" to my original question, you're slipping :P
<bigcalm> answering
<zleap> i think i have fixed it now
<zleap> i was looking for something called display,  but its called monitors instead
<zleap> i am trying to work out if my monitor is faulty,  or if there is a problem with my graphics card, so to test i want to see if I can display inmage from netbook on to the monitor
<suprengr> I recognize some names in list as those who extol Minecraft... is there a safe/legal/honest way for those curious [me ;)] to try it & see if pooter can cope ok?
<suprengr> ..downladed the .jar file but thought I'd check 1st.
<zleap> in 10.04 how to i switch from using a netbook display to using a external monitor (connected via vga port|) is there a key combination somewhere ?
<suprengr> zleap, most netbooks [& laptops] have a blue or green key matching functions on top of 'f' keys... one looks like a monitor moving.
<suprengr> ...& throws in sequence to internal, both or external
 * suprengr sneaks off to check netbook for better description
<suprengr> in my case is ble letters 'Fn' [function'?] and key is f5 showing black screen shaped box with a vertical line next to it then pointing to white shaped screen box
<suprengr> ...&... so is the works laptop [coincidence]
<suprengr> *blue
<JGJones> Hmm interesting...http://androidflip.com/linux-android-asus-eee-pad-transformer-tf101-coming/
<JGJones> Ubuntu on a Asus Transformer?
<oimon> my next portable device will look like that
<oimon> whether the EPD has been replaced ny then i dunno, but seems great
<popey> jeez
<popey> that article couldn't get any less readable if it was printed upside down
<oimon> i had to check if chrome was transalting it from chinese
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14168281
<shauno> whoops
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Cable and satellite aren't affected, and neither are t'interwebs..so I can still listen to my favourite radio program :)
<shauno> heh.  no real loss.  FM's dead anyway
<MartijnVdS> shauno: over here it's not
<MartijnVdS> shauno: DAB never materialized here
<shauno> not sure there's much in the way of DAB here either (other than what leaks from the UK)
<shauno> they just killed FM by filling it with dross
<MartijnVdS> Over here only the publicly-funded channels are good
<shauno> I mostly just listen to the world service on the intertubes
<MartijnVdS> shauno: vlc http://livestreams.omroep.nl/npo/3fm_vsr-bb
<MartijnVdS> shauno: for much Dutch silliness :)
<shauno> hm. can't figure out how to open it.  vlc has a UI only a mother could love
<MartijnVdS> shauno: hence the command line
<MartijnVdS> hm
<shauno> you know, dutch almost looks intelligible when written down
<MartijnVdS> shauno: so is English for me :)
<shauno> on the radio, not so much :)
<bigcalm> Just deleted my 4sq account. Feels good to reduce redundant services. Facebook is next if I enough of my friends make it onto Google+
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Some British artist once said "Your English is very good." from stage... I replied: "You too!" -- looks of confusion all around :)
<shauno> wow.  how many times do you have to ^C to get vlc to die :/
<MartijnVdS> 5-6
<shauno> I wonder why geoip fails on a large number of addresses I feed
<StevenR> hrrm. display corruption on resume from hibernate again :(
 * StevenR wonders how to submit a bug report about it (or rather, how to gather useful X11 info)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: ubuntu-bug will attach the Xorg log and dmesg to the bug automatically
<StevenR> oh. cool.
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: ubuntu-bug display
<freenodiz> hi
<jacobw> hi
<freenodiz> lil question ...i have wine installed.I have some windozee lil apps..example "aleo flash banner creator",that i want it to work with wine...I've been into wine website,and i saw posts about big apps,such as adobe..but no info about running this small  lil apps...another app came to my mind "faststone photo resizer"..
<MartijnVdS> freenodiz: you can just try them
<MartijnVdS> freenodiz: or find alternative applications that do what you want
<StevenR> hrrm. how do I turn off compiz stuff?
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: on the login screen select 2d mode/classic mod
<freenodiz> MartijnVdS,my i pm you?
<freenodiz> may*
<MartijnVdS> freenodiz: better to keep things on-channel I think
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: I'm in classic mode, but the desktop effects are still turned on :S
<freenodiz> ok
<jacobw> use alternative apps
<jacobw> imagemagick is awesome
<MartijnVdS> Lots of programs capable of image resizing
<freenodiz> i can't find anything to replace this http://www.aleosoft.com/ nothing good as this one..if i could put such app to work...
<freenodiz> i guess i will try it
<jacobw> what does it do?
<freenodiz> MartijnVdS,you think apps such as this ones,based in flash..would be more likely to have issues?
<freenodiz> jacobw,it does flash banners on the fly
<jacobw> its impossible to say
<jacobw> what do you want to make flash banners for?
<freenodiz> im sry,this is the correct link
<freenodiz>  http://www.aleosoft.com/flash-intro-banner-maker/index.html
<freenodiz> also,i have this app,wich relies on microsoft IIS server...i gues i can install IIS on wine...can i?
<jacobw> haha
<bigcalm> Eww
<freenodiz> i hate the microsof
<freenodiz> i really want to get rid of this apps
<freenodiz> windows vista is trashing up my brand new hitachi hdd...grrr lol
<jacobw> its best to use standardised technologies so you can work with open source software
<jacobw> i.e. flash sucks
<freenodiz> o.O
<freenodiz> java guy?
<freenodiz> ahhh,or cause it's just from our last stand ADOBE?
<MartijnVdS> freenodiz: it's because Adobe software is bloated, full of security holes, and alternatives (HTML5) are becoming more viable by the day
<jacobw> its a closed format that you can only create with a proprietrary software suite
<MartijnVdS> and that
<freenodiz> well,whatever...I will replace the apps..run ubuntu as main os,and a partition with mac os,to run my adobe apps
<MartijnVdS> Your loss ;)
<freenodiz> i want to learn a bit of sys admin.Is that recommended i install ubuntu server edition,to practise,instead of the normal one?any particular care?
<jacobw> you can install whatever you like on either edition
<freenodiz> And,regarding adobe,i think that if you can't win,the best is  join... :D
<ali1234> lol, please tell me what the viable open alternative to after effects is
<jacobw> so you can install -desktop and add whatever packages you want to learn about
<freenodiz> ahh,ok ,ty,so i will go server
<freenodiz> thats cool
<freenodiz> i really want to learn how to set up the server myself,and stop giving money for this virtuozzo hosts with centos installed..parasites
<ali1234> virtua-whizzo sucks
<freenodiz> ali1234,good point,how can u replace such apps?fire works?any matches?there's none...
<ali1234> lol fireworks is horrible
<freenodiz> yeap,i just realize that now...i'm working with drupal app also,and i just fond drush
<ali1234> my only experience of it is "that program that steals all the file associations and takes AGES to load"
<freenodiz> whattttttttttttttttttttttttt
<ali1234> i don't see the point of fireworks
<freenodiz> fireworks is horrible,i can see you are not a designer lol
<ali1234> it's just a half assed image editor
<freenodiz> no way
<freenodiz> dont say that
<ali1234> why would you use fireworks, when you can use photoshop instead?
<freenodiz> errrr
<freenodiz> i want go trough that discussion,just google it
<freenodiz> mi won't*
<freenodiz> lol
<freenodiz> i won't*
<freenodiz> fireworks is the right arm of a web designer
<ali1234> they only keep it around to keep the old macromedia customers happy
<ali1234> they should never have bought any of that stuff
<freenodiz> not true
<freenodiz> not true again
<ali1234> adobe has been going downhill since they bought it
<ali1234> another company ruined by steven elop
<freenodiz> fireworks runs custom scripts,for especific webdesigner needs
<freenodiz> like the ubuntu command line :)
<freenodiz> I would be so proud if the open source community could produce a package such as adobe,like a mirror
<freenodiz> a copy :P
<freenodiz> lets hack that code! yayyy
<freenodiz> thanks for tips guys,mean time i will be using the adobe in a partition,thanks all tips
<freenodiz> MartijnVdS ++
<freenodiz> jacobw ++
<jacobw> ali1234: brain still working?
<Azelphur> does anyone know if sky broadband messes with torrents?
<popey> GOOD EVENING ROOM!
<MartijnVdS> HOWDY POPEYMAN
<Azelphur> AAA!
 * Azelphur runs
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: come to the Netherlands, ISPs aren't allowed to mess with traffic anymore here :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: by law
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: that makes me more tempted to move to the netherlands than it really should do :p
<popey> Nice!!
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Everyone speaks English, and Dutch really isn't that hard to learn anyway (I know several people who have learned it)
<popey> herdy gerdy
<MartijnVdS> popey: yes, but no.
<popey> :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: try "Goeiemorgen allemaal!"
<czajkowski> âââ â   âââ â â âââ
<czajkowski> âââ â   â â âââ âââ
<czajkowski> â â â   â â â â â â
<czajkowski> â â âââ ââ  â â â â
 * MartijnVdS waves in czajkowski's direction
<jpds> MartijnVdS: But it's not morning.
<MartijnVdS> jpds: "Goeienavond allemaal!"
<jpds> Gut, ganz gut...
<MartijnVdS> jpds: But we say "mogge" all day long
<MartijnVdS> jpds: (short for "goeiemorgen")
<jpds> MartijnVdS: Probably like moin in Germany.
<MartijnVdS> jpds: likely, yes
<MartijnVdS> heh http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Liverpool&daddr=Birkenhead&hl=en&dirflg=w
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: oops.
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: slightly :)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: I love how it says "12 hours. Or take the bus (30 minute)"
<MartijnVdS> 29
<StevenR> hehe
<bigcalm_lappy486> popey: which brand of ssd have you gone for?
<dogmatic69> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dogmatic69> does anyone know why ubuntu forums take me to login page from google lately?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no idea, openid?
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: never been registered or needed to before...
<dogmatic69> also, you know when google shows a site + 5 form links as one result
<MartijnVdS> no idea
<MartijnVdS> I don't see a google login page when I go to the forums
<dogmatic69> the 5 links i can always use, just not the main one. although cache works
<dogmatic69> no.
<dogmatic69> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=404441
<dogmatic69> it says log in
<dogmatic69> but.. i can see it with google cache
<DJones> I just get vbullitin login page with that link
<dogmatic69> ye
<MartijnVdS> same
<dogmatic69> exactly
<dogmatic69> why
<MartijnVdS> maybe it used to be public, but now it's private/locked?
<dogmatic69> http://tinyurl.com/6eeebwe
<dogmatic69> the top result... no matter what i search. the 'main' one is locked and the sub ones work
<dogmatic69> for the ubuntu forums only
<popey> bigcalm_lappy486: I have various ones
<popey> yes dogmatic69 I know why
<bigcalm_lappy486> Ah, ok. Any you would recommend then? :)
<dogmatic69> popey: do tell :)
<popey> they have made old archived stuff non-accessible
<popey> except by google
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> lame
<popey> personally I'd wipe it all
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> either its there or not
<popey> the old stuff is mostly crap
<dogmatic69> very stupid to have the 'main' result for "ubuntu + xyz" locked
<popey> meh
<dogmatic69> cant you pull some strings :P
<bigcalm_lappy486> popey: I assume that one requires an additional kit to fit an ssd into a desktop machine?
<popey> yes
<popey> most come with them
<dogmatic69> bigcalm_lappy486: a resize thing
<popey> all of mine did
<bigcalm_lappy486> Ah, cool
<popey> i can benchmark all 3 if you want
<MartijnVdS> popey: so which ones do you have? (SSDs)
 * dogmatic69 wants a SSD
<bigcalm_lappy486> I'm looking at http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_n_0?rh=k%3Assd%2Cn%3A340831031%2Cn%3A%21340832031%2Cn%3A428655031%2Cn%3A430505031&bbn=428655031&keywords=ssd&ie=UTF8&qid=1310757620&rnid=428655031#/ref=sr_nr_p_72_0?rh=k%3Assd%2Cn%3A340831031%2Cn%3A%21340832031%2Cn%3A428655031%2Cn%3A430505031%2Cp_36%3A428446031%2Cp_72%3A419153031&bbn=430505031&keywords=ssd&ie=UTF8&qid=1310757629&rnid=419152031 and tryi
<bigcalm_lappy486> ng to comprimise between speed/size/cost
<popey> woah
<popey> Corsair CSSD-F12
<bigcalm_lappy486> Sorry :)
<MartijnVdS> Long URL is long
<popey> CSSD-F115GB2-A
<popey>  INTEL SSDSA2M120
<popey> ^^^ those
<dogmatic69> i was thinking 1VTX30G 30 GB Vertex Series
<bigcalm_lappy486> This is to go in my windows machine for work. So I won't be on steam until it lets you install to other drives
<popey> i have steam on mine
<popey> nothing else tho âº
<bigcalm_lappy486> Heh
<bigcalm_lappy486> Not even minecraft?
<popey> what do you need for work?
<popey> a text editor surely :D
<popey> yeah, mc too
<bigcalm_lappy486> Haha
<bigcalm_lappy486> :P
<bigcalm_lappy486> MS Office, Adobe CS3, PhpEd, most web browsers, sqlyog,
<bigcalm_lappy486> Reeeeeeeeealy tempting to dual boot the workstation if I do put a new drive in it
<bigcalm_lappy486> It's my external hardware that stops me from using anything other than Windows
<popey> "hardware"
<bigcalm_lappy486> USB dvi graphics card to run a 3rd screen and a skype adaptor box that connects to my desk phone
<popey> does the usb gfx card not work in ubuntu>?
<bigcalm_lappy486> It's not reported to do so. TBH, never tried :)
 * bigcalm_lappy486 takes the lappy to it
<bigcalm_lappy486> Well, it doesn't _just work_
<bigcalm_lappy486> I shall research
<popey> what does lsusb say it is?
<bigcalm_lappy486> It's a conv-usb2dvi
<bigcalm_lappy486> Erm
<popey> usb id ?
<bigcalm_lappy486> Bus 002 Device 005: ID 17e9:0138 Newnham Research
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy486: check the "udlfb" device driver
<MartijnVdS> and xserver-xorg-video-displaylink
<bigcalm_lappy486> MartijnVdS: ta for the info
<bigcalm_lappy486> I shall play with it over the weekend
<bigcalm_lappy486> Now, it's time to watch In the Line of Fire
<shauno> interesting.  get_iplayer's stopped working for me :(
<MartijnVdS> let me chec
<MartijnVdS> k
<MartijnVdS> "Connecting..."
<MartijnVdS> ERROR: rtmp server sent error
<shauno> that's the one
<shauno> oh, it's working now.  musta caught auntie with her bloomers down
<shauno> (for a while there, I was terrified they'd pegged me for a foreigner)
<liam> i need a lil help please
<StevenR> liam: don't ask to ask, just ask :)
<liam> i am having issues with ubuntu 11.04 and the laptop an it doesnt spin long enough letting the system get too hot
<liam> around 80 85 degrees
<Guest87896> y
<brobostigon> ?
<Guest87896> hi
<brobostigon> hi
<Guest87896> i am just trying the channel
<brobostigon> ok.
<Guest87896> Well what is the classical way of using IRC... with Xchat or Xchat-Gnome? they both look sort of the same...
<Azelphur> hmm, on my server (ubuntu server) grinds to a halt whenever any disk i/o goes on, ie a file copy
<Azelphur> any way to fix it?
<suprengr> Azelphur, http;//smack_it_with_a_hammer.com ;)
<Azelphur> \o/
<shauno> MartijnVdS: fixed it!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmqsP6hV5lw
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Developer Summit Sponsorship Now Open - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/15/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-2/
<StevenR> urrgh. I really want to fix that first paragraph in the approval application (I have the technical ability, just haven't worked out how to make it right yet :) )
<ali1234> AlanBell: remember how you asked everyone to test the new wiki, and everyone said "launchpad openid doesn't work", well it still doesn't work
<StevenR> ali1234: works for me :)
<StevenR> oh. new wiki?
<StevenR> ali1234: sorry, thought you meant the approval app page (my brain is full of trying to fix some of the wording)... is there a new wiki?
<ali1234> that's what i mean
<ali1234> login takes several minutes
<ali1234> although it does work eventually
<StevenR> that's not the same as "doesn't work"
<ali1234> yes it is
<ali1234> unless taking 5 minutes to login is intentional
<ali1234> are you doing a lot of edits?
<ali1234> cos i just went through and fixed all the typos and spelling mistakes, of which there are many
<StevenR> ali1234: I did a bunch last night
<StevenR> ali1234: trying to re-work the paragraphing in that huge opening chunk of text. It just feels like too much text in one chunk
<ali1234> the section headings make no sense
<ali1234> it's like some one inserted them purely to break up the text
<StevenR> ali1234: I'm not so much good at content, but I'm good at making text work (spelling, punctuation, grammar), though I wasn't looking for typos last night, too tired yesterday
<shauno> heh, every time I see trcy.mi I think traverse city, but I know it's not
<shauno> hm, or is it.  db says cadillac, but friends in petoskey show as trcy too  *mumbles*
<Azelphur> ali1234: you about? :)
<Azelphur> having an issue with my server, every time it runs a disk intensive cron job (irc stats generation, mysql backup, etc) it makes the entire server grind to a halt
<Azelphur> isn't disk I/O scheduling supposed to make that not happen?
<ali1234> i suppose
<Azelphur> any ideas on fixing it? :D
<ali1234> get more ram
<Azelphur> how would that help o.o
<shauno> stop using the disks :)
<ali1234> well it doesn't seem to happen to me any more since i got 16gb
<Azelphur> seems like a not so good solution :(
<ali1234> i suspect it is something to do with the retardedly aggressive disk caching and swappiness on ubuntu
<ali1234> something along the lines of:
<ali1234> read file, put it in disk cache, disk cache is full, swap out some program memory, write it to disk
<hamitron> I recall something making the install take ages with ext4 partitions
<ali1234> this turns what should be a sequential read into a series of short read/write/read/write etc in totally different parts of the disk
<ali1234> basically killing performance
<Azelphur> maybe switching swap off?
<ali1234> nice one
<ali1234> switch swap off, or reduce swappiness value of the kernel
<Azelphur> ok
<Azelphur> I know about both, what you think would be best?
<ali1234> or buy memory 2x the size of your /usr partition
<Azelphur> can't really buy memory since it's a rented server
<Azelphur> unless I feel like paying +$241352313... /mo
<Azelphur> applications themselves are only using about 80-90% of the RAM
<Azelphur> but that would obviously explain the push
<Azelphur> ali1234: so, disable swap or lower swappiness, what's best? :P
<hamitron> I'd do swapiness first
<Azelphur> I know the defaults 60, so what are we changing it to, 10?
<hamitron> baby steps ftw
<hamitron> just see what it does
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> swappiness=0 tells the kernel to avoid swapping processes out of physical memory for as long as possible
<Azelphur> owait we want 0.
<popey> Azelphur: i would actually do something else, like io nice the intensive jobs
<Azelphur> popey: I can see that that might be a good idea, but that said I really want the applications to stay in memory period
<Azelphur> the server runs game servers, so we absolutely don't want to swap out the game servers memory
<Azelphur> that's always going to result in bad.
<ali1234> io nice does nothing
<popey> ok
<hamitron> lag just cost me 3 hearts :/
<Azelphur> there we go, swappiness 0 that should fix that one :)
<ikonia> Azelphur: if the games servers are in use, it won't swap them out to disk
<ikonia> Azelphur: it only swaps out applications to ram if they are unused
<ali1234> ha ha ha, yeah right
<ali1234> where unused is defined as "hasn't executed any code for longer than 0.1 microseconds"
<Azelphur> ikonia: well, they was all in use full of people using high amounts of CPU at the time :P
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> I guess another good thing may be to offload some of the scripts and things running on that server
<ikonia> Azelphur: ok, so why are you messing with swap then ?
<Azelphur> ikonia: because ali1234 told me to and it makes sense :P
<Azelphur> feel free to make other suggestions :D
<ikonia> Azelphur: how would changing swapiness help you ?
<ali1234> it will stop his game servers being swapped out when something does a long sequential read of a file
<Azelphur> ikonia: because if what ali1234 says is correct and it's swapping the game servers out when there's heavy disk I/O, turning swappiness to 0 should stop that
<ikonia> ali1234: but if it needs to swap them out to do the read - it will crash him machine as it's out of ram
<ali1234> ikonia: it does not need to swap to do the read
<Azelphur> ^
<ikonia> ali1234: it does if there is no ram
<ikonia> something has to give
<ali1234> no, wrong
<ali1234> that's completely idiotic
<ikonia> no, correct
<ali1234> it might need to swap to do the malloc
<bigcalm_lappy486> popey: pondering this http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-Vertex-2-5-inch-Internal-Solid/dp/B003NE5JCE/
<ikonia> if you have no ram
<ali1234> but malloc is not affected by swappiness
<hamitron> can you force zero ram use for copying files?
<hamitron> or any io
<ikonia> ali1234: no, of course that's not effected by swappiness, but that's what I'm saying
<ikonia> why is the games server being swapped to disk ?
<ali1234> you are saying that read(2) is going to fail if swappiness is 0 and there's no free ram, but there is free swap
<ali1234> which is quite obviously nonsense
<ikonia> ali1234: no, that's not what I'm saying
<ikonia> ali1234: I'm saying if there is no ram left, then stopping it to swap to do disk will not help
<ali1234> swappiness does not disable swap
<ikonia> no, it disables the application from being swapped out to disk
<ali1234> it disables "hey let's swap out everything in favour of disk cache and interrupt the long sequential read with lots of extremely slow and tiny write operations in the process"
<ikonia> in the example you're giving
<ali1234> no, it doesn't do that either
<ikonia> ah, so you're not trying to actually stop it swapping out to disk, you're trying to stop it proritising disk over it
<ali1234> there is literally no way under linux to prevent an application from being swapped out except for disabling swap partitions entirely
<AlanBell> hello UK
<bigcalm_lappy486> Hello Docklands
<ali1234> so i just got a android phone and i heard some people here have them
<ali1234> how do i make it not show every single person who has ever emailed me in the contacts?
<hamitron> a hammer to the screen would do it
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> i dont think i'm going to get on with this
<AlanBell> go to gmail and delete them in contacts there
<ali1234> but i don't want to delete them from gmail
<ali1234> i might want to email them at some point in the future
<ali1234> i just don't ever want to telephone them
<ali1234> this sucks
<ali1234> google maps is slooooooow
<ali1234> and no skype and no google talk support
<AlanBell> in the contacts display settings show only contacts with phone numbers
<ali1234> why do people buy these things?
<AlanBell> there is skype
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-16
<popey> and there is google talk
<ali1234> this thing is so slow
<AlanBell> what handset?
<ali1234> galaxy s
<ali1234> the main problem here is that it shows the contacts from "other contacts" the ones that gmail automatically adds
<AlanBell> yeah,I thought that was good
<ali1234> if i delete them in gmail i won't get email autocomplete any more
<ali1234> but the only option is to show them all or show none of them
<Azelphur> ali1234: get a T9 dialer
<ali1234> what
<ali1234> T9 is for text entry
<ali1234> phone numbers are composed of numeric characters only
<ali1234> so what is a T9 dialer???????????
<Azelphur> ali1234: you can get dialers, you dial the first few "numbers" and it picks from your phone book
<Azelphur> like say for example I wanted to call you
<ali1234> but i don't know the first few numbers
<Azelphur> I'd dial 254, and I'd get you
<Azelphur> because 2 is Abc, 5 is jkL and 4 is ghI
<Azelphur> so I dialed Ali and it picked you from the book.
<ali1234> ut the phone has no keyboard
<ali1234> this makes no sense
<Azelphur> numbers on the keypad have had letters assigned to them
<ali1234> argharalhkfherycelsrlexjfe
<Azelphur> since forever
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> this is doing my head in
<ali1234> i can't cope with this phone
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> can i turn off the obnoxious transition effect on every single menu?
<hamitron> I've started to think it is best to have a phone as a phone, and comp as a comp, all things totally seperate
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://www.simplynetworking.es/wmsimages/60894cell-phone-numbers.jpg
<Azelphur> phones, since forever, letters have been assigned to the numbers
<ali1234> hamitron: that's because it is best
<Azelphur> with my phone I can dial the name of a contact, and that's who it calls
<Azelphur> that's what a T9 dialer does, they cool :D
<ali1234> skype downloaded 14%
<ali1234> this is taking forever
<hamitron> welcome to my world \o/
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> still at 14%... this better be good
<hamitron> I've given up with phones
<hamitron> if I buy anything, will get something that is barely a phone, maybe more like a netbook
<hamitron> but neither I value highly enough to consider anything atm
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> hey look at that... skype doesn't work
<ali1234> it just says "skype has stopped working"
<daftykins> ali1234: it knows it's the weekend
<ali1234> nope, it's a known bug
<ali1234> skype doesn't work on this phone
<daftykins> called saturday
<ali1234> skype not interested in fixing it either
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i'm sure all but windows phone versions will get pulled soon enough
<hamitron> because of multitouch?
<ali1234> i dunno
<daftykins> naw
<ali1234> because it doesn't work properly it doesn't even finish installing
<ali1234> so now i can't uninstall the broken app because the market thing just says "installing" forever
<ali1234> this is a joke
<hamitron> I don't like how there are so many different versions of android, and how new versions come out so quick
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> this phone is rubbish, do not buy one
<hamitron> what is it?
<Azelphur> ali1234: skype is rubbish, do not use skype
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> also do not assess a phone based on skype, because skype is rubbish
<ali1234> the uninstaller is also broken
<ali1234> the phone is slow, takes ages to boot up
<Azelphur> probably because it's packaged badly :P
<ali1234> android "contacts" is a mess
<ali1234> the UI is ugly
<ali1234> it's not even properly integrated anyway
<ali1234> also this phone is massive for no good reason
<ali1234> it's bigger than the N900
<ali1234> why??
<ali1234> i like that i can give skype 1 star and then say "it's defective" when i remove it
<ali1234> maybe this thing at least has some good games for it
<ali1234> oh, a google+ app
<ali1234> lets try it
<daftykins> what is it?
<ali1234> galaxy s
<daftykins> this phone you hold in such high regard
<daftykins> ah samsung
<daftykins> i hear that one's buggy as fudge
<ali1234> oh, this one won't even install. nice
<ali1234> it just says it "will be downloaded" then nothing happens
<daftykins> sometimes those statuses are only there for half a sec on mine
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but then it disappears and the app is not installed
<ali1234> well at least i get free angry birds
<ali1234> probably the same demo as i had on the nokia though
<daftykins> latest OS updates i take it?
<daftykins> and a nice clean boot :D
<ali1234> factory reset, dunno what version it has
<ali1234> don't really care
<ali1234> if i'd paid for this i would be returning it tomorrow
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> my HTC Desire gets gingerbread this month :D
<ali1234> wow... unlock phone to a nice fullscreen "network error" message
<ali1234> it doesn't say which network of course
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> where'd it come from?
<ali1234> i have no idea
<ali1234> it doesn't say
<daftykins> the actual phone i mean
<ali1234> it just has an "ok" button on it
<ali1234> oh the phone is a loaner from a company i work for sometimes
<daftykins> ah
<ali1234> i will persevere with it and make a list of everything i don't like... that's why they lent it to me after all
<ali1234> but seriously if i had bought this i would be really unhappy right about now
<ali1234> after all i heard about how symbian sucks and android is way better
<ali1234> this is something of a let down
<daftykins> i'm pretty certain you've got a defective one there
<ali1234> i mean symbian might be lacking features, but at least the features it does have actually work
<daftykins> or the mem card isn't wiped so something's acting screwy
<ali1234> that's hardly an excuse
<daftykins> if it was pre-used, kinda is
<ali1234> not at all
<hamitron> symbian doesn't work with a messed up memory tbh
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> factory reset should, you know, reset it to the way it came from the factory
<daftykins> well that's true up until some dumb user goes "oh but my pics on the microSD..."
<daftykins> :>
<ali1234> symbian doesn't depend on the microsd being available at all
<ali1234> it's only used for data files
<hamitron> don't call me dumb, I done that :/
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> oh it's got that racing game installed on it... maybe this will work
<daftykins> who said anything about symbian D:
 * daftykins wipes hamitron 
<ali1234> i did
<ali1234> symbian works, this doesn't
<daftykins> very funny.
<daftykins> ja
<daftykins> although i'd like to suggest that it's daft to compare an entire OS to another based on one product
<daftykins> :>
<directhex> my phone has gotten to the "random reboots when idle" stage \o/
<daftykins> ooh wubberly
<daftykins> which be that?
<directhex> htc hero, running cm7
<daftykins> ah
<hamitron> gl ali :)
<hamitron> nn all
<daftykins> odd, you didn't use to like candybars
<directhex> daftykins: at the time i was buying, it was the third android phone on the market - htc dream (t-mob g1), htc magic, htc hero
<directhex> and the g1 was oooold by that point
<daftykins> true
<daftykins> i might use a modded ROM once a gingerbread successor is out
<daftykins> as my Desire won't get any updates past then most likely
<directhex> i'd rather have a real keyboard though, given how android's input thread is trivially locked out by other goings on
<ali1234> heh, that game is actually pretty good
<directhex> it's frustrating to press a button, the phone detect the keydown event, then take 2 seconds to notice the keyup - so you put a symbol instead of a letter
<daftykins> i like haptic feedback and typing landscape on mine
<ali1234> ooo multiplayer
<daftykins> heh sounds like the hardware can't handle the ROM
<directhex> daftykins: true. but it did this on the 1.6 it shipped with ;)
<directhex> daftykins: android is inherently weak at things like this - modern phones gloss over the flaws with mhz
<daftykins> mmm
<directhex> it's new phone time whenever i'm ready
<directhex> anyway, BEDTIMEZOMG
<daftykins> indeed it is
<daftykins> moar TNG for me i think
<ali1234> wow the battery is nearly flat already
<daftykins> welcome to android gaming
<daftykins> that part is realistic++
<daftykins> oh dear god the LCDs are burning my eyes
<daftykins> that makes it time to move
<daftykins> o/
<ali1234> stupid samsung won't even let you download the firmware updates
<ali1234> you have to install "kies" first
<ali1234> then connect the phone to your windows pc
<ali1234> this is lame
<ali1234> of course kies has a load of stuff i don't need like yet another audio and video player
<ali1234> this phone gets really hot :(
<ali1234> ok i wiped both the sd cards, did a factory reset, and then wiped the sd cards again, just to be sure
<ali1234> now i'm going to attempt to upgrade it
<ali1234> then i will do another factory reset and sd wipe, just to be sure
<ali1234> ok kies won't let me upgrade because i have country code "xxx" - i guess this is an engineering model or something
<ali1234> that might explain why the firmware is so awful
<ali1234> so how do i install cyanogenmod?
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> you might be able to load a ROM from the SD card if you can get to the bootloader for recovery capability
<ali1234> well yeah but kies won't even download the firmware
<daftykins> surely some enterprising xda developers forum member has them hosted
<daftykins> anywho, bed for me nn!
<ali1234> aaaaaaand finally i think i have android 2.3.4?
<ali1234> looks better already
<ali1234> finally i can select which contact groups to display
<ali1234> this is much better
<ali1234> the youtube app now shows my subscriptions instead of a bunch of random rubbish
<ali1234> again, this is much much better
<ali1234> maps is much faster too
<MartijnVdS> which phone?
<ali1234> galaxy s
<MartijnVdS> which version did you have before?
<ali1234> 2.1-update1
<MartijnVdS> yes, then 2.3 will be quite an improvement :)
<ali1234> 2.1 really sucks
<ali1234> but i don't know if it is because of samsung or google
<MartijnVdS> Samsung probably
<ali1234> also the samsung updater refused to update it right to the end
<ali1234> i had to use odin and a dodgy rom from xda forums
<ali1234> claims to be stock though
<MartijnVdS> definitely Samsung
<MartijnVdS> I've re-flashed my Vodafone Nexus One with stock Google firmware
<MartijnVdS> lost me Dutch speech output, but gained me instant firmware updates
<MartijnVdS> same on my xoom
<ali1234> this was not branded before
<ali1234> i think it's engineering model
<MartijnVdS> mine wasn't branded either
<MartijnVdS> it just had "European" firmware on it, that was being vetoed by Vodafone
<ali1234> "not branded" to the point where it didn't even have a valid country code :)
<MartijnVdS> oops?
<ali1234> i dunno, i don't know much about android
<ali1234> i've still got the samsung app store so i guess it's at least semi official
<MartijnVdS> I hate vendor-branding like that
<MartijnVdS> (hence my choice of Nexus, also it's metal instead of plastic)
<ali1234> me too but it seems to have some free games that cost a few $$ on the android market
<ali1234> and it's not like it's in your face all the time
<MartijnVdS> neither is Google'sMarket
<ali1234> it has both
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings.
<Lcawte> Morning
 * Lcawte wonders if the next ubuntu-gaming team meeting will go ahead... :/
<Myrtti>  morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<suprengr> czajkowski, just about to go shopping [yawn] but o/ anyway
<popey> Lcawte: why wouldn't it?
<popey> morning all
<Lcawte> popey: we're not exactly the biggest team yet :P
<Laney> I thought it was the Debian-Ubuntu games team
<Laney> or is this something else?
<Lcawte> launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming
<popey> it is another team Laney
<Lcawte> wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam
<popey> sadly
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<Laney> we have nethack
<Laney> job done?
<directhex> i wonder if scsharp is in a packageable shape for contrib
<popey> directhex: do you backup your gameOS?
<directhex> popey, pfft no. it's called steam!
<popey> :D
<directhex> gameos is 100% combustible
<popey> hah, reporter on bbc news 24 is about to get blown away with her umbrella
<directhex> bah i miscalculated how much work i would need to do today
<popey> the disk in my osx mbp went phut, insert disk, connect backup and about 3 clicks later it's all back exactly as it was
<popey> wish windows and ubuntu had that
<Myrtti> I think I managed to rescue my photo collection from my on the verge of breaking truecrypted external drive
<Myrtti> I don't have any decent pictures of me and mum together, the best I found was me wearing a Star Wars t-shirt and we both having our eyes closed
<Myrtti> so I'll have to survive with the knowledge there's some good pictures of mum that I've taken
 * popey spies someone subscribing to linuxjobs
<Myrtti> :->
<dwatkins> popey: thanks for reminding me *buys another backup disk*
<Myrtti> lolwhat
<Myrtti> I jumped from popey's electronic playlist to disco playlist...
<popey> heh
<popey> spotify?
<Myrtti> yeah
<popey> didnt realise I'd shared them
<gord> i recently learnt that you can create a radio stream based off another user on last.fm, its been rather fun doing htat :)
<Myrtti> Mew seems to fit my mood at the moment...
<shauno> noisy bunch today 'eh
<NeedHelp_> Hi, I've got a problem with sessions - the startup is slow and most of the time it (Unity or such) fails to appear
<NeedHelp_> It started to happen after switching my graphics card from nv to ati, the drivers are installed
<jacobw> KMS issue?
<gord> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2011/jul/15/app-developers-withdraw-us-patents - interesting
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> the speed of my adsl has gone from 6Mbit/s to 8Mbit/s
<jacobw> since i requested a tranfer from my current isp to another isp
<jacobw> qos ftw.
<mfraz74> good afternoon
<Azelphur> seems like setting swappiness to 0 didn't solve the issue
<Azelphur> shiny spike to load average: 13.19, 11.46, 5.95
<Azelphur> making everyone time out \o/
<subsetOfInsanity> join i3detroit
<hamitron> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Ubuntu will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server. The current LTS version of Ubuntu is !Lucid (Lucid Lynx 10.04)
 * hamitron pokes Azelphur
<Azelphur> yea?
<hamitron> is your server up?
<Azelphur> no I turned it off because I was bored one day
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> </sarcasm> :P
<hamitron> something is broken then, elsewhere
<suprengr> hmm.... sarcasm: the *highest* form of wit [when executed correctly]
<^aDaM> Evenings :)
<Hashishet> t
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] OggCamp 11  more tickets available! - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/27/oggcamp-11-more-tickets-available/
<AlanBell> rss fail from tony there I think
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> indeed
<brobostigon> evening HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> about 3 months of a fail too
<HazRPG> brobostigon: evening :)
<cbx33> hey guys
<cbx33> is there a way to echo the current bash prompt?
<AlanBell> for two people to see the same thing?
<AlanBell> shared screen session?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> jsut to echo the single prompt
<cbx33> like how to echo john@satsuki:~$
<AlanBell> echo $PS1 will show you how it is defined
<cbx33> right but what if I actually want it
<AlanBell> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prompt-HOWTO/index.html it will be in there somewhere
<AlanBell> although I can't see it
<AlanBell> pwd will return the current directory
<bigcalm_lappy486> Just ordered my 1st SSD. Exciting times!
<directhex> zomg
<directhex> a 2T PCIe drive?
<AlanBell> why isn't avahi-dnsconfd installed by default on ubuntu server
<penguin42> AlanBell: Because I assume people setting up servers actually want to be careful about what services it provides
<AlanBell> suppose so
<AlanBell> I just like ssh hostname.local to just work
<penguin42> nod
<AlanBell> especially having done the setup, unplugged the monitor and keyboard and such, and put it out of easy reach
<penguin42> well you can still go in via ip
<AlanBell>  yeah, did an nmap to find the thing :)
 * penguin42 generally prefers broadcast pings
<AlanBell> how do you do one of them then?
<penguin42> AlanBell: ping -b 192.168.1.0  I think should do it
<penguin42> hmm not managing to get it to work here, wonder why - even with sudo
<AlanBell> ping -b 192.168.2.255 gets one machine responding
<AlanBell> not the one I wanted though
<penguin42> odd - I've done it many times before, but not here for quite a while
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<shauno> I'd be all for having avahi out of the box.  especially if it was clever enough to only start on interfaces that had private addresses
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-17
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/163423
<shauno> ali1234: curious, what am I looking at? (re: the graph type thing from hours ago)
<ali1234> shauno: http://pastebin.com/MmDyP1sZ
<ali1234> in short the lines are a damaged signal and the bars are the fixed signal
<ali1234> i look for a way to get from a to b that doesn't take 4 and a half days
<shauno> ah
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Yall better show up now - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/05/23/yall-better-show-up-now/
<AlanBell> shauno: doesn't avahi stay on the same subnet anyway?
<AlanBell> ali1234: very impressive stuff
<Apacheuk> Hello everyone, quick question is there a way to stop evolution from checking for email when the screen saver is enabled?
<daubers> Morning
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> Apacheuk: you could write a plugin for that
<brobostigon> o/
<Apacheuk> MartijnVdS:  I could do that :) was kinda hoping someone already had
<Myrtti> *yawn*
<penguin42> Myrtti: My thoughts exactly
<nadiacutie> gtfuygvjhv
<gord> geez, reading about the apple patents they were awarded against HTC last weekend really makes me think they are a vile company
<penguin42> link?
<gord> http://www.dailytech.com/Apples+Plot+to+Kill+Top+Android+Maker+HTC+Nears+Fruition+With+Win/article22173.htm
<penguin42> gord: So the 1st one is something like spotting a phone number and raising an alert on spotting it?
<penguin42> heck teh 2nd one is  pretty wide ranging and rather fundamental
<penguin42> haha it references Byte
<penguin42> both quite old - I suspect around the time of Newton?
<gord> penguin42, pretty much
<penguin42> gord: It's going to be difficult to find prior for those given how early they are
<siya> sudo aptitude install xserver-xorg-input-wizardpen
<siya> No candidate version found for xserver-xorg-input-wizardpen
<siya> ^^^ Any idea what could cause this?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] GtkAction  HowTo and Why - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/07/17/gtkaction-howto-and-why/
<AlanJenkins> hey guys, anyone know the best way of forcing a package to uninstall via dpkg?
<AlanJenkins> got a package that has a removal script that keeps becoming a zombie
<AlanJenkins> so never completes
<AlanJenkins> any recommendations?
<directhex> AlanJenkins, you can remove the removal script, if you're desperate
<AlanJenkins> yeah looks like that may be the only way
<AlanJenkins> =/
<gyyrog> hello
<AlanJenkins> where do they normally hide directhex?
<directhex> it's in /var/lib/dpkg/info/$packagename.prerm
<AlanJenkins> kk
<AlanJenkins> i'll move it to a diff name and try that
<gyyrog> I need some advice. I am a UK citizen that has lived my entire life in the states. I am interested in moving to the UK and working for a while.
<gyyrog> What is a good source to find IT related jobs out there?
<AlanJenkins> ok that worked nice one directhex
<AlanJenkins> just had to rm -R /home/NX and userdel nx afterwards in place of the prerm script =)
<AlanJenkins> then just rm'ed the script after
<AlanJenkins> fyi looks like nxserver free edition doesnt play well with ubuntu 11.04 (didnt in my case anyways) =)
<DJones> gyyrog: There is a linux jobs mailing list, bt I'm stuggling to find a link for it
<gyyrog> I have some apple certifications now. Is there much call for that out there?
<gyyrog> In the US we have a lot of headhunter/placement services. Has anyone had a good experience with ones over there?
<DJones> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/ Worth keeping an eye on, no idea about about apple cert's, not something I've noticed being spoken about, maybe somebody else might have an idea though
<directhex> apple certs. that's adorable.
<gyyrog> :)
<gyyrog> It was the only job I could find out of school
<gyyrog> I live in rural norther michigan
<gyyrog> The closest town that has more than 7,000 residents is an hour and a half drive away
<MartijnVdS> they have internet there?! :P
<gyyrog> Thanks DJones
<gyyrog> sometimes
<shauno> you're not far off where I was then.  spent a few years just outside petoskey
<gyyrog> a lot of people still use dialup
<gyyrog> I live in Petoskey!
<shauno> seriously?
<gyyrog> Yeah
<gyyrog> Right down town on the same block as the 7-11
<gyyrog> I work in Bay Harbor
<gyyrog> A little Mac store
<MartijnVdS> McStore?
<gyyrog> shauno: what did you do out here?
<shauno> went nuts & left :)
<gyyrog> Thats what I am in the process of
<gyyrog> It is beautiful up here, but little diversity of culture and next to no IT jobs
<shauno> worked in a coffee shop on the other side of the bay for a few years.  moved back to europe at the first semi-sensible chance that came up
<shauno> IT-wise you either work at the hospital, the tribe, or you leave
<gyyrog> yup
<gyyrog> maybe a school district
<gyyrog> So leaving it is
<gyyrog> I have been looking at Denver too, but I really feel the need for a substantial change
<shauno> from petoskey, anything with a population is going to be a change :/
<shauno> that is funny tho.  I was over there 5 years, and never realised there was more of us
<gyyrog> I have met maybe 4 UK citizens over the years. My mom included
<gyyrog> I grew up in Detroit, and lived in chicago for 3 years
<shauno> there was 5 of us hiding in harbor springs :)
<DJones> gyyrog: Whereabouts i the uk is your mom from?
<gyyrog> uxbridge
<gyyrog> I have some family in Bristol too
<dude_> hello i'm having some trouble with xchat. could someone please help me? thank you
<darren> ?
<brobostigon> ?
<AlanBell> !ask | dude_
<lubotu3> dude_: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<dude_> AlanBell, lubotu3 thankyou for your hospitality. i'm new to irc and have been in some hostile channels before now that turn thier noses up at giga-noobs such as myself lol.
<dude_> hello i'm having some trouble with xchat. could someone please help me? thank you
<dude_> oops
<jacobw> what trouble are you having with xchat?
<dude_> I'm using Ubuntu 11.04 in Gnome 2.x and the tray icon has recently vanished. I have checked the box in >preferences>alerts but it still isn't there. i've also tried sudo-apt remove xchat. and autoremove after that. and i've deleted the .xchat from my home folder, reinstalled it and still it doesn't show. thanks
<jacobw> you might not have a notification area on the panel
<jacobw> the 'app indicators' applet is seperate from the notification area applet
<jacobw> try adding a notification area to the panel
<dude_> ok i'm going to try logging in and out to see if the changes worked
<dude_> wish, i would like to thank you. that was the solution. another recommended me adding xchat to a whitelist using gconf-editor>desktop>unity. i had tried that but it was crass. your solution worked without it
<popey> Evening everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> Top Gear in 4 minutes :)
<brobostigon> evening popey
<brobostigon> :)
<ujjain> kjlkjkj/win 32
<gyyrog> They did a US version of Top Gear. It was no where near as good
<dwatkins> as with Red Dwarf
<shauno> protip: bbc america :)
<AlanJenkins> anyone have any experience setting up neatx on ubuntu server 11.04?
<GreenDance> Hi, I would like to run some server side commands, I was hoping to create a web interface to do them, but I've been told doing the commands via a web interface is very insecure, so would it be better to do them just via ssh instead?
<andylockran> howdy
<zleap> ok a bit off topic anyone seen this ok heres something funny,  goto google maps,  and type in china as stating point and then taiwan as your destination and check out step 48
<siya> simple question: how to I switch from Unity to xfce?
<siya> I installed xfce but didn't see the option of selecting it when logging out/in
<siya> afaik I should be able to kill unity and start xfce, right?
<zleap> you should be able to select xfce when you login,
<dotwaffle> I'm fed up with my overheating Macbook Pro, and looking to get a new laptop. I'm assuming most laptops are now pretty much Ubuntu compatible out of the box, any recommendations? I'm more after looks than features, though playing 720p MKVs would be nice.
<siya> zleap: some forum tells me to install xubuntu-desktop
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i thought you could select different window managers from the log in screen downt he bottom somewhere
<siya> I suppose this is one of those "doh!" moments and I should hang my head in shame?
<siya> so did I
<siya> but nothing showed in the bottom bar. Maybe I should have rebooted
<zleap> i would have thought logging out would be sufficient
 * siya nods
<siya> right trying again
<siya> cheers
<zleap> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1775832
<zleap> np
<zleap> HI
<zleap> hi
<reaper4334> Hey, has anyone here any idea on how to change MAC address of a wireless adapter using Broadcom drivers?
<zleap> er can you change a mac address
<oracology> reaper4334: try doing it through gnome network manager?
<zleap> i thought it was hardwired in
<oracology> zleap: you can spoof it i think.
<zleap> ah
<reaper4334> oracology: Thanks, I'll give that a try now. I tried using ifconfig but with no luck
<oracology> reaper4334: verify through network manager afterwards. good luck ;)
<reaper4334> oracology: unfortunately didn't work. even though the router has no address filtering, once I've changed it I can't connect
<oracology> reaper4334: ah damn. try restarting?
<reaper4334> I did :( I had the same problem with the terminal method using ifconfig, it seems it's just an issue with the drivers
<oracology> reaper4334: ah sorry mate. i tried :(
<reaper4334> oracology: thanks anyway, if it weren't for my stupid hardware your solution would work :P
<oracology> reaper4334: np np. have a good night. i'm hittin' the sack.
<reaper4334> oracology: thanks, you too :D
<davmor2> hello all
<JGJones> argh dammit...
<JGJones> screwed up with rapid photo downloader somehow...and now my HDD is jammed full of duplicated photos....
<popey> oops
<JGJones> 200Mb free space...
<JGJones> sigh
<JGJones> aye...i'll leave it for tomorrow to sort all that out.
<JGJones> before I do that...any recommendation on a image editor that can search for and remove duplicates based on checksums etc (by remove, move it to another external HDD...I wouldn't want to risk my photos!)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-09
<Azelphur> ali1234: I just got the source code for the fan controller :)
<knightwise> ls
<knightwise> morning
<DJones> Morning all
<jacobw> morning DJones
<jacobw> does anyone know of a method of distributing incoming chats to agents from a jabber roster?
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<DJones> Off topic and windows question, can anybody recommend an anti malware/spyware with realtime monitoring thats free, spent 4 horus removing one from my dads laptop yesterday evening and would rather not do that again, sadly he's too set in his windows ways to use ubuntu for any length of time
<diplo> not sure about real time, but the two I use are Spybot which i think may have some real time
<bigcalm> DJones: join VirginMedia. They then give you re-branded software from TrendMicro. Seems to work for my parents
<diplo> And the better of the two imo is Malwarebytes, may have real time in pro but not in free i don't think
<bigcalm> (this may not be the answer you're looking for)
<DJones> diplo: They're the two I was looking at
<directhex> i thin k BT also give you some nonsense software. dunno, i rejected it
<diplo> Only 2 i really use tbh, they seem to find extra stuff that others don't
<directhex> also your online bank might
<DJones> bigcalm: No cable where they they live, so not that worth changing, although good suggestion, they're on BT so will look at it
<directhex> DJones,  http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=27269
<bigcalm> Also, Microsoft offer free software for non server installs of Windows
<bigcalm> I can't remember what it's called though
<directhex> bigcalm, microsoft security essentials. AV, not malware.
<DJones> He's got the free MS antivirus, that completely missed this one
<bigcalm> directhex: fair enough
<DJones> BT offer BT Netprotect Plus for free
<directhex> pretty sure i gave you the url for that
<gnuisnotlinux> Vim, or emacs?
<popey> edlin
<bigcalm> gnuisnotlinux: why stick with just one?
<bigcalm> gnuisnotlinux: use what you find best for a given situation :)
<directhex> nano.
<directhex> because not enough people have the courage to admit that they don't understand vim *or* emacs
<bigcalm> Though personally, I use nano and fall back to vim
<popey> \o/ I generally use nano
<DJones> directhex: Yeah, same one, hadn't clicked on yet, was looking through different ones
<gnuisnotlinux> lol neither I still only use gedit :(
 * AlanBell is with directhex in the nano camp
<Laney> dd
<knightwise> anyone know if the nexus 7 is available in the UK yett ?
<directhex> couple of weeks
<directhex> "SHIPS SOON
<directhex> Ships in 2 - 3 weeks."
<directhex> https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_8gb&feature=single-wide-banner
<Laney> I definitely need to upgrade my computer
<directhex> Laney, add moar rams! and a sheep.
<Laney> 4G of RAM and an e6600 don't cut it these days
<gnuisnotlinux> what can nano do though?
<gnuisnotlinux> just edit and write textr?
<directhex> gnuisnotlinux, pretty much.
<directhex> Laney, core 7 extreme edition!
<directhex> Laney, sadly, due to an intel pricing quirk, upgrading my CPU will cost more than Â£400 - cheaper to replace the motherboard and cpu at the same time
<Laney> due to a bundle?
<directhex> Laney, due to an obscure "enthusiast" socket type
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Laney> unfortunately my cash stream has to be diverted to the "somewhere to live" fund for the near future
<directhex> Laney, every generation now, intel sell consumer versions of xeon, on xeon sockets. was socket 1366 when i bought, is now socket 2011
<bigcalm> gnuisnotlinux: what do you require?
<directhex> which are the enthusiast/xeon versions of 1156 and 1155 respectively
<Laney> man, i stopped paying attention to this stuff when i did this upgrade
<Laney> which must have been 2008 :o
<directhex> sounds about right
<Laney> after some so-and-so decided that my laptop would be better of being his laptop
<Laney> off
<directhex> my choice of CPUs for this motherboard is http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=2958
<diplo> Laney: Im the same, way out of the loop on hardware now :(
<Laney> just have to stick your head far enough out to get your bearings every 5 years, then go back into hiding
<MooDoo> Hello All
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<oimon> why, if top is reporting that thunderbird is using 30-60% of cpu, but the system is only reporting 7% usage overall?
<Pr0ph3t> Hi all
<dwatkins> oimon: where is the 7% reported? loadavg? w?
<andylockran> howdy all!
 * andylockran is slowly turning into a PHP Dev :p
<dwatkins> sounds fun, andylockran
<dwatkins> and good morning
<gord> oimon: 30-60% of one core
<gord> oimon: 7% over all cores
<gord> my guess
<arsen> the key to understanding vim/vi is to remove nano ;p
<AlanBell> arsen: I used to have a test of software back in the pre-gui days, if I couldn't figure out how to close it in under a minute it failed the test.
<arsen> lol
<arsen> i dont doubt that vi/vim are backwrads
<arsen> im a big nano fan, but i think its important to be able to use vi/vim
<arsen> i wish i knew more of the in depth shortcuts that would make me more productive in both tbh
<AlanBell> I have encountered it sufficient times to know colon w q is the answer (or :q! to quit without saving I think) and i to get into insert mode
<arsen> :)
<arsen> well theres lots of built shortcuts ive seen some serious experts use which makes them work through stuff incredibly quickly
<arsen> but im not sure i have the spare time to sit down and put it into practice in my regular use. nano is just wordpad via CLI which makes it naturally logical to use.
<diplo> It's great, I don't know many of the commands
<diplo> Shift a end of line
<diplo> :set nu
<diplo> Set numbered lines etc
<diplo> o to append to a line, loads of 'Cheat Sheets' out there
<arsen> it just doesnt really follow my brain logic sadly, shift A i can't relate to end of line etc
<diplo> What I used to have beside my screen until the ones I used daily sunk in
<diplo> Benefit is though as people have mentioned before is that vi is installed on just about every *nix variant I've been on, which you can't say for the others
<diplo> So a little knowledge goes far
<arsen> yeah, thats why i say it's important to udnerstand the basics.
<popey> AlanBell, i bought a pocket vi guide from amazon for a couple of quid last week
<popey> i should keep it on my desk with my pocket python book
<gord> learning vim isn't too bad if you just write down everything you want to do on a post-it and put it on your monitor
<gord> then its all about forcing yourself not to do things the dumb slow way and do it the fast vim way until it becomes second nature
<diplo> yeah exactly what I had to do on AIX in my initial days
<diplo> We weren't aloud to install anything on the box, so it was vi vi or vi
<Daviey> popey: surely, by definition, you should keep it in your pocket?
<popey> i have no pockets that size
<Daviey> then the fix is to buy clothes with bigger pockets.. not work around the issue.
<gord> saying all that, i never did get used to jkl; - i understand the concept, but i think the concept is based on being able to type properly. i rock my own style of typing and basically just use my index finger on my right hand and sometimes if that finger is busy the second finger
<popey> also gedit ftw
<Daviey> I genuinely prefer my vim setup to using gedit... Not to mention i can get the same experience over ssh as i can locally
<gord> Daviey: seen, http://www.sublimetext.com/ ? those demos on the main site there are tempting me to swich from vim to a gui editor. seems like all the useful parts of vim + useful parts of gui
<Daviey> gord: doesn't look compelling enough to be payware?
<gord> Daviey: well its nagware, you get a nag screen until you pay but otherwise fully functional
<andylockran> heya all
<brobostigon> hi andylockran
<andylockran> howdy brobostigon -  how goes things?
<brobostigon> andylockran: not bad, my dermatologist to see later. not bad. and you?
<gord> all these "hey this website uses cookies like every other website in the world" things are getting a bit annoying
<directhex> gord, yep, but it's legally required to show that message
<AlanBell> and if you say no, they can't drop a cookie to say you have already seen it \o/
<AlanBell> silly laws are silly
<MartijnVdS> directhex: in the Netherlands they even have to ask permission to set cookies
<MartijnVdS> as if browsers didn't have that feature..
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: it is a european regulation
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: some countries implemented it more strictly than others
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: the ask-for-permission bit isn't required by Europe, but the computerphobes in the Dutch parliament thought it was necessary
<AlanBell> yeah, good job the web works like that isn't it
<MartijnVdS> Most sites are ignoring it
<MartijnVdS> The regulatory body (OPTA, think OFCOM) said it won't enforce the rule because they have more important things to do or something
<AlanBell> the european regulation requires all the national governments to create legislation that implements the regulation, which is why all the countries do something similar but different
<MartijnVdS> It's still the wrong way to do it
<diplo> directhex: Rather than reply on twitter
<diplo> My mum has issues with sleeping and has been given this headband thing with speakers of sorts in there
<diplo> No in ear part, can't get make/model if you are interested
<directhex> mmm, worth a look
<diplo> kk, will see her at 4pm or can text her now if you want ?
<directhex> in-ear is kinda okay, it just needs to be secured some other way. in-ear buds are secured by resting behind a small ridge of cartilage which sticks up. in my ears the ridge sticks sideways not up, so there's nothing for ear buds to rest behind
<directhex> i guess rubber plug style might work, i haven't wanted to "invest" to try though
<diplo> heh, these are the only things she has felt comfortable with so far, look a bit of a .... but they work according to her
 * Laney just got attacked by swans
<Laney> greedy beggars
<oimon> gord, dwatkins i only have 2 cores...something is reporting wrongly methinks
<gord> oimon: two cores with hyperthreading?
<dwatkins> oimon: how do the numbers compare in top?
<oimon> i imght try a reboot
<oimon> firefox and tbird are consuming all cpu
<oimon> even just showing the google page kills cpu
<oimon> ksoftirqd is v busy
<directhex> leap second bug!
<oimon> directhex, oh, you're not joking :-\
<directhex> oimon, am i ever?
<oimon> date -s "`date`"
<oimon> my machines been a pig all day
<oimon> i was on holiday last week
<oimon> so i missed this story
<oimon> was there a furore about this?
<directhex> hell yes
<directhex> one VPS provider had their power consumption jump by a *megawatt* to deal with all the bugged VMs
<oimon> didn't see anything about it on my g+ feed :-\
<oimon> i had no mobile contact all week
<AlanBell> directhex: yeah, we got mails from hetzner asking us to check and reboot our machines, but they all seemed fine
<andylockran> hey all
<bigcalm> popey: have you ever had your webcam do this? http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/webcam/webcam.jpg
<bigcalm> Grr, fixed itself
<bigcalm> Something wrong with it though
<ok_> testing
<bigcalm> It's doing it again! http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/webcam/webcam.jpg
<kirrus> top
<kirrus> argh, wrong shell :/
<ali1234> bigcalm: my camera does that sometime too, i think it's a bug in the kernel
<ali1234> but when mine does it it also goes green and/or pink
<ali1234> that appears to be greyscale
<ali1234> clouds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlgl0Z8Gjd8
<Azelphur> yay clouds.
<Azelphur> ali1234: that racing game your playing with looks quite fun :D
 * bigcalm returns
<ali1234> some day i will finish it
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> but i've been working on it for over 10 years now
<ali1234> ogre didn't even exist when i started
<Azelphur> sounds like a duke nukem forever situation
<ali1234> pretty much
<swattor> evening all
<swattor> they did finish duke nukem though didn't they?
<swattor> just wasn't... that good.
<Azelphur> ali1234: if you ever do finish it, I can provide server space :p
<ali1234> it's not an online game :)
<Azelphur> aww :(
<ali1234> unless we all have super low latency internet by the time i finish it
<Azelphur> who knows xD
<ali1234> the original game makes CS surfing look tame, seriously
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dcPiEgwymY
<ali1234> yes, he's intentionally falling off to get a speed boost
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha, that is indeed pretty fast
<ali1234> given you go at 3000 km/h, 50ms latency gives an error of 40 meters
<ali1234> and your ship is only about 10 meters long
<ali1234> so forget collision detection in online multiplayer
<ali1234> just isn't going to happen
<Azelphur> haha, indeed
<ali1234> the game has to use fixed timestep at 200 updates per second just to not explode horribly
<ali1234> i think original quake had an internal clock of 15 fps
<ali1234> udp broadcast network games are a possibility though
<Azelphur> ali1234: UDP still has the same latency issues doesn't it?
<ali1234> not 50ms
<ali1234> 50ms is good for internet, it's terrible for LAN
<Azelphur> that's interesting, didn't realise UDP was that much faster
<ali1234> it isn't, there's just no hops on a LAN
<Azelphur> but yea most time sensitive games use UDP
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> so it'd be "instant"
<Azelphur> but only in a LAN
<ali1234> if i ping my modem, RTT is 0.5ms
<ali1234> if i ping game.azelphur.com RTT is 100ms
<Azelphur> I get 0.36 :P
<Azelphur> ali1234: btw did I tell you I got the source for the recon
<ali1234> oh yeah?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> got it at like 3am last night havn't looked at it much yet
<Azelphur> but yea, fun fun
<Azelphur> python decompiles very nicely :D
<Azelphur> I keep getting this really annoying issue with gedit where my text cursor disappears
<Azelphur> it's still functional, I can click somewhere and type, but I have no indication whatsoever of where I'm typing :(
<Azelphur> have to keep opening and closing gedit to fix it, very annoying
<bigcalm> Can you get webcam to store locally without having to make a connection to another machine (even if it's localhost)?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: you mean you want to record from your webcam?
<ali1234> don't use webcam
<bigcalm> Azelphur: webcam is a package in usc
<Azelphur> uhh
<ali1234> actually i don;t know what to use instead
<bigcalm> ali1234: not really my question
<ali1234> i used guvcview which records to mjpeg
<ali1234> but you can't set the framerate in that
<ali1234> you can set local in webcam.conf
<ali1234> check the manual page
<bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM-E2f6i2OE :D
<bigcalm> webcam didn't have this video problem on the laptop
 * bigcalm tickles popey_
<popey_> bah
<popey_> my virgin box seems to be crap with wifi
<popey_> and my non-virgin router doesn't do bridging
<popey_> which is annoying
<bigcalm> Boo
<gord> i also setup my webcam to watch the skies today, now we can all record the boring grey english skies  together!
<popey_> \o/
<popey_> we should setup a page on ubuntu-uk.org with all our webcams on it
<bigcalm> That sounds like a splendid idea
<bigcalm> Grey skies of the UK
<gord> then suggest the torism board promote our webcams
<dwatkins> ...and an image of my rat cage
<gord> YES rat cage cam is *essential*
<dwatkins> Roger Wilco
<bigcalm> I wish I had a pet I could put a radio camera on for a day
<dwatkins> so long as there are drivers for my IR-filter-less Logitech Quickcam for 11.04
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I have a radio camera, it's terrible quality ;)
<bigcalm> dwatkins: not surprised :)
<bigcalm> Reminds me of the episode of Drop the Dead Donkey where they strap a radio camera to a badger with somebody's belt
<dwatkins> It transmits a black and white image, even from very near-by it's very grainy, although it is a vew years old - I imagine with a pair of xbees you could do something much better now.
<dwatkins> hehe, that series was very funny
<dwatkins> they always seemed to have the occasional really up-to-date joke, too
<zleap> ah i tried that from the hack a day site (remove ir filter from webcam)
<zleap> it failed
<bigcalm> libv4l2: error dequeuing buf: Input/output error
<bigcalm> v4l2: read: Input/output error
<bigcalm> capturing image failed
<bigcalm> iain@proliant:~$
<bigcalm> Would be nice if it were to restart if it dies like that
 * bigcalm tries a different webcam
<dwatkins> boo, silly webcam
<Twinkletoes|H> Anyone suitkl awake>?
<Twinkletoes|H> still awake even?
<Twinkletoes|H> Nagios in repos, is v3.2.  Nagios built from source is v3.4... and the change logs shows lots of bug fixes done between the two versions.  Which one is most sensible to use?  I normally stick with the repos, but is there any need?
<ali1234> as soon as you stop using the repo version you have to baby sit it yourself
<ali1234> manual updates, bug fixes etc
<ali1234> it all becomes your job
<ali1234> so don't do it unless you really need some feature that is only in the latest version
<Twinkletoes|H> ali1234: There was just such a lot of changes since 3.2 and 3.4 that I've been wondering if the 3.2 is ok to use or not?
<ali1234> it's fine
<Twinkletoes|H> ali1234: Ok.
<ali1234> if it wasn't they wouldn't put it in the repos
<Twinkletoes|H> Thank you :)
<ali1234> if there was a security bug fixed in 3.4 they would backport the fix to 3.2
<ali1234> that's the idea anyway
<Twinkletoes|H> ali1234: good point
<Twinkletoes|H> ali1234: I suffer from always wanting the latest and greatest - it's bnad of me - I know
<ali1234> put it this way
<ali1234> if a security bug is found, ubuntu developers will probably have backported it before you have patched your local version
<Twinkletoes|H> ali1234: Yeah
<ali1234> and quite possibly before you even find out about it
 * Twinkletoes|H has installed form the repos now
<Twinkletoes|H> I know the error of my thinking now :)
<Laney> wow
<Laney> it just started raining really heavily
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Kelly and Luke  a sneak preview - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/07/09/kelly-and-luke-a-sneak-preview/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=kelly-and-luke-a-sneak-preview
<ali1234> Azelphur: i updated to precise and clinfo now segfaults. any ideas?
<ali1234> it was working with precise beta (or alpha)
<Azelphur> clinfo?
<ali1234> yes, opencl
<ali1234> any opencl program now segfaults in libc
<ali1234> [ 2148.375862] clinfo[10699]: segfault at fffffffffffffff8 ip 00007f78965acbc3 sp 00007fff05e01ca8 error 6 in libstdc++.so.6.0.16[7f789650e000+e2000]
<Azelphur> ali1234: I had an issue recently where I did an update and then had issues with opengl, rebooting fixed it
<Azelphur> dumb answer, but may work
<ali1234> i already rebooted
<ali1234> like 100 times
<Azelphur> no idea then, weird
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-10
<acoauapl> hi
<ali1234> YES
<ali1234> i finally killed the most annoying bug ever
<sagaci> bug #102938?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 102938 in beagle (Ubuntu) "[apport] BeagleDaemon.exe crashed with SIGSEGV in mono_jit_info_table_find()" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102938
<ali1234> no, it was much more annoying than that
<AlanBell> gosh, my hosepipe ban was lifted yesterday
<AlanBell> morning everyone, how are you this damp and miserable day?
<DJones> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Were you taking notice of said Hose pipe ban AlanBell ?
<AlanBell> I have been wanting to get out and use the hose to water things for ages, but it wouldn't stop raining long enough for me to do so
<diplo> lol
<diplo> Reading in another channel that someone was using their water butt to clean their car
<diplo> As it was so full of rain
<mattt> morning all
<Twinkletoes> Morning :)
<gord> nothing like failing raid arrays to kick start your morning!
<diplo> :(
<mattt> gord: failing or failed?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<bigcalm> Greetings, Earthlings :)
 * popey hands gord a btrfs volume
 * diplo is deciding he hates javascript more and more
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> Awww
<bigcalm> diplo: say it ain't so
<bigcalm> With the right framework, js can be fun
<diplo> Oh but this isn't a framework
<diplo> This is pure js, written 7 years ago
<diplo> Within a php4 app
<diplo> I'm down to last few bugs now, and the last few are taking longer than the majority
<bigcalm> I've slowly replaced the old non-framework js in a project with lovely jquery
<diplo> This project hasn't been touched in maybe 4-5 years
<diplo> They've just been upgraded to centos 6
<diplo> And on Friday I got asked to find out why it wasn't working basically
<bigcalm> Have things stopped working?
<diplo> And I don't think they want to spend any more fixing it
<diplo> Oh yes :D
<bigcalm> More likely to be the PHP than the JS
<diplo> A lot of stuff dependant on register_globals
<diplo> The machine is soooo much faster than the old one for the js
<diplo> php
<diplo> that stuff is going quicker and stuff is erroring out
<bigcalm> It was relying upon race conditions?
<diplo> No
<JohnRobert> hello
<JohnRobert> can anyone recommend a good gnome/xfce distro for use on an old eeepc?
<jussi> JohnRobert: Xubuntu
<JohnRobert> it's a 1.6ghz atom with 1gb ram monster
<dwatkins> I have lubuntu on my Eee.
<AlanBell> JohnRobert: personally I would put standard Ubuntu Precise or Quantal on it
<directhex> windows 2000!
 * directhex flees
<AlanBell> Windows ME!
<MartijnVdS> Windows CE?
<oimon> i have lubuntu on my eee 701
<bigcalm> Windows NT?
<AlanBell> JohnRobert: I think you will find it works quite well with Unity 3D because the GPU bit can take some of the load off the CPU
<bigcalm> Windows CE ME NT
<JohnRobert> interesting alan_g
<JohnRobert> AlanBell I mean
<JohnRobert> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00729d9
<JohnRobert> these are excellent
<popey> i have ubuntu 12.04 on my eee 1.6ghz
<popey> and on my eee 900Mhz
<JohnRobert> the verdict popey?
<popey> it works fine
<AlanBell> those Atom processors have intel graphics which work *fine*
<JohnRobert> most interesting
<popey> my kids have an eee 900 each
<popey> both have ubuntu 12.04 with unity 2d on
<JohnRobert> cool, yeah this will be for my gf's 6yr old
<JohnRobert> hmm
<JohnRobert> can you boot from sdcard on the eeepc?
<JohnRobert> apparently yes
<oimon> yes
<JohnRobert> that's quite neato
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<gord> hey guys, i figured out how to get my raid to work again, you just have to add and remove drives from the machine almost at random and then it works somehow
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> gord: fixed your keyboard?
<gord> yup
<oimon> diplo, still on cinnamon :D
<oimon> good performance and no annoyances yet
<diplo> I've moved back to Unity, but using Gnome Do as well
<diplo> Cinnamon was crashing a lot for me
<oimon> hasbn't crashed once here
<oimon> that i remember
<oimon> cinnamon+synapse+plank
<diplo> Will try tomorrow and see if any of the updates have fixed any of my issues
<bigcalm> gord: so you'll be joining us on Thursday? :)
<oimon> does rubbing fruit with your finger count as cleaning it?
<bigcalm> How clean is your finger?
<JohnRobert> xubuntu 12.04 booting from usb on a eeepc redefines slowness
<oimon> well it looks clean...
<oimon> once i saw a colleague stab a milkshake carton to pierce the lid, with a screwdriver. he pushed the screwdriver all the way down (a long screwdriver), then sucked the screwdriver
<oimon> i happened to know that the screwdriver had been used in the most dusty and dirty crevices in the office
<oimon> including possibly poking a dead mouse
<JohnRobert> hmm
<diplo> Dirts good :)
<diplo> Everyones to clean now, making people more ill
<diplo> There are limits to my decision's on dirt though :P
<bigcalm> Hello mrevell, will you be joining us on Thursday?
<directhex> JohnRobert, is that a statement on the os, or the usb, though?
<JohnRobert> probably both
<JohnRobert> and the hardware
<JohnRobert> although now it's booted it seems ok
<JohnRobert> I guess usb live things are never quick
<directhex> depends on the usb stick
<dogmatic69> \o/ just got some HDD's for the NAS
<AlanBell> JohnRobert: live USB is slow for several reasons (compressed filesystem and slow transfer speed)
<AlanBell> and decompression on the CPU that you are also trying to use for stuff
<AlanBell> does xubuntu use compiz for drawing and moving the windows?
<directhex> i assume it uses xfwm4?
<JohnRobert> it looks as though it's doing some compositing
<AlanBell> directhex: that is a reasonable assumption, didn't think of that ;)
<AlanBell> so I think it would be smoother with unity3d or gnome-session-fallback using compiz
<gord> bigcalm: maybe, think its depending on the weather
<selinuxium> Hi all, long time no see...  :)
<JohnRobert> heh out of memory
<JohnRobert> eeepc :/
<Pendulum> AlanBell: what's the link to your AAC project again?
<AlanBell> hi Pendulum
<AlanBell> https://github.com/AlanBell/wespeak
<directhex> JohnRobert, running from usb? that can happen, i guess
<JohnRobert> I take it there's no swap when you boot from usb?
<AlanBell> Pendulum: the running demo is a bit different to the github code now
<Pendulum> ah, okay
<AlanBell> Pendulum: doing something interesting with it?
<JohnRobert> cloud9 seems fairly unreliable
<Pendulum> AlanBell: linking mgdm to it because I knew he'd probably be interested
<oimon> who's runnign chromium on ubuntu?
<dogmatic69> o/
<oimon> what version?
<dogmatic69> 18.0.1025.168
<oimon> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/28/google_chrome_update/
<oimon> wonder how many security bugs are in 18?
<oimon> and if it's not being updated, is it dangerous (probably)
<popey> the article says in the first line.. "none of which are deemed critical"
<popey> Micah Gersten is probably the guy to ask
<Daviey> Hmm.. not really.. traditionally he has been driving it, but i think that is not accurate now.
<Daviey> chromium isn't in main, so the ubuntu security team and/or Canonical don't commit to keeping it secure.
<bigcalm> Is it subway or chippy for lunch today?
<bigcalm> Good point, subway it is then
<Daviey> bigcalm: gettusone
<dogmatic69> great new site from xkcd http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/
<JohnRobert> I like the SAT test one
<The_Fred> hello
<oimon> popey, does that mean critical updates would be applied? i think not. i think a lot of ubuntu users are runnign chromium without realising the level of unsupport
<popey> brobostigon, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ saw that, thought of you
<popey> oimon, this is why i run firefox and chrome, and not chromium
<oimon> v19 has critical fixes
<popey> so someone should probably patch that
<JohnRobert> beos
<JohnRobert> sounds like it was really good
<JohnRobert> anyone here ever used ionice?
<kirrus> yup
<kirrus> why?
<JohnRobert> does it affect the ui responsiveness much?
<JohnRobert> I'm wondering if there's a way to make linux feel much more snappy
<JohnRobert> eg more like beos sort of snappy
<kirrus> It affects diskprocessing priority
<kirrus> if that's the bottleneck, maybe
<JohnRobert> hmm
<kirrus> but be aware, a lot linux does is nessasary, and ioniceing stuff just for the sake of it could cause trouble
<JohnRobert> are there any X servers that are better than xf.org?
<JohnRobert> yeah like delayed writes
<kirrus> JohnRobert: not as far as I'm aware. Mostly I'd have expected the UI to only be sluggish if your system is trying to do too much with too few resources. Tried using openbox or similar?
<The_Fred> JohnRobert, check this : http://ubuntuguide.net/how-to-speed-up-ubuntu-laptopold-machine-with-low-ram
<The_Fred> JohnRobert, and this: http://modifyubuntu.com/
<AlanBell> JohnRobert: did you try unity3d?
<The_Fred> hello AlanBell !
<AlanBell> hi The_Fred
<directhex> mmm, there's a real issue with UI latency on linux
<directhex> if you have a beos background especially
<directhex> it's not related to the system spec really, more the kernel governor
<JohnRobert> yeah, but I'm not sure it changes much if you chagne the governor
<JohnRobert> iirc I tried it once on a custom kernel
 * bigcalm waddles back in
<bigcalm> I was weak, the chippy called to me
<bigcalm> Just want to sleep now
<diplo> take it wifey is out tonight then ?
<bigcalm> diplo: me?
<diplo> yah, having chips for lunch not cause arguement at tea time ?
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> diplo: maybe once we're married ;) That's not until next year
<bigcalm> diplo: tea isn't going to be until gone 8pm tonight, so I thought it was safe to be naughty
<bigcalm> How do you tell git to use a particular ssh key?
<bigcalm> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2419566/best-way-to-use-multiple-ssh-private-keys-on-one-client
<bigcalm> Possibly
<diplo> Ah everyones married in my books once they live together, as the blokes are under the thumb straight away
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> Haha
<diplo> I use .ssh/config, mines quite large now
<diplo> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/580894_307621156000482_1320972821_n.jpg
<diplo> My little dude last few days of Nursery, so they dressed him up
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> I think Hayley and I surprise people for 2 reasons: 1) the 7 year age gap (her being older) and 2) how equal we share life. Neither is under the thumb of the other
<bigcalm> diplo: heh, cool
<diplo> 2) believe it for now :D
<bigcalm> Bah :P
<diplo> 17 years for me, so think I'm ok to think that.
<bigcalm> We enjoy 3 years in every 10 of being in the same decade
<diplo> heh, I like the way you two approach things though
<diplo> My mates with a woman about 10years his senior
<diplo> Very happy
<DJones> my wife is with a bloke 15 years her senior
<diplo> You defo see it more the other way round
<bigcalm> Indeed, but are they as happy? ;)
<DJones> diplo: Agreed
<diplo> Guess so, parents neighbours are the same as DJones and that's about 30 years or more now
<DJones> So many people said it wouldn't last because of the age difference, proved them all wrong, just had our 8th wedding anniversary earlier this year
<DJones> The only wierd thing is that when we used to go to family get togethers with her parents, other people thought I was her dads son beause they thought I looked like him
<directhex> okay, this is huge, imho: Kinect now does calorie tracking across all games. i.e. play *any* Kinect game & get charts on calories burned, not just fitness games
<diplo> cool
<diplo> And not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing DJones :D
<DJones> diplo: I'd have been more worried for my father in law, he only had one daughter, no boys, where di the other people think a 30+ year old son suddenly appeared from
<diplo> lol
<diplo> that is more worrying
<DJones> Specially as he was choirmaster and musician at church
<DJones> With his wife & daughter in the choir
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> Tut tut ;)
<dwatkins> could someone please advise me how/whether to install the kernel source (as opposed to headers, whcih are in the repos) for natty in order to install and compile the qc-usb driver for a Quickcam, please?
<gord> dwatkins: apt-get install linux-source
<dwatkins> gord: I tried that, perhaps I have a misconfiguration of my sources.list as it failed
<dwatkins> Package kernel-source is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<gord> sounds like you have some out of date repos or something
<dwatkins> ah yes, good call. I could apt-get update and upgrade alright, but perhaps something else is wrong.
<dogmatic69> If I have two folders mounted from Server A on Server B, what would (not on the server) mv folderA/foo folderB/ do? does it copy the files from the server over the net and back to the server?
<dwatkins> I don't think you can move a mountpoint whilst it's in use, dogmatic69 - I'd move subdirectories within them explicitly.
<dwatkins> if you mean moving a subdirectory, it would probably use the network connection of the client to move the file, at least that's what my laptop does.
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: I want to move files from one mount point to another
<dogmatic69> but 60gigs +-, and mv foo bar is pretty quick on the same drive etc. Its almost like I need to rather send the command 'mv foo bar' as opposed to actually running it.
<dwatkins> I don't believe there's a mechanism to simply inform the server to perform the move internally, it uses the network connection of the client. You'd be best performing the action on the server via an ssh login.
<dogmatic69> its a basic nas box, not sure there is ssh
<dwatkins> it may depend on the mechanism you're sharing with, samba, NFS etc.
<dogmatic69> nfs
<dwatkins> most basic NAS boxen run linux from what I understand.
<dogmatic69> ye, its linux. that does not mean it has ssh enabled. Its embeded
<dogmatic69> just checked the guide, not one mention of ssh
<dwatkins> depending on the device it may be possible to install/enable ssh
<dogmatic69> it has ftp though. I guess I could ftp in and do MOV foo bar
<dwatkins> http://nfsv4bat.org/Documents/ConnectAThon/2010/ss-copy-spec.pdf
<diplo> dogmatic69: no rsync ?
<diplo> Friends embedded box has rsync
<diplo> oh just noticed, maybe no ssh either
<diplo> :/
<dogmatic69> well if it had no ssh..
<dogmatic69> its http://uk.level1.com/product_d.php?id=283
<bigcalm> Sexy
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: the nas?
<bigcalm> Yus
<dogmatic69> want to guess the price?
<bigcalm> More than the price of my internal organs
<dwatkins> one billion dollars... *puts little finger in mouth*
<dogmatic69> 85 quid, delivered. NIB
<bigcalm> o.O
<dwatkins> how much storage, dogmatic69?
<oimon> bigcalm, my missis is nearly 9 yrs younger. got lots of pats on the back for dating a 19yr old when i was 27/28
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: it has a max of 4 500gig, with RAID5 its 1.5TB
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: ah, delivered diskless?
<dogmatic69> yes
<dwatkins> my NAS is a netbook ;)
<dogmatic69> got 4 hdd's for 140
<dwatkins> I was considering a Synology or a Drobo.
<dogmatic69> synology is nice, but they are so pricey.
<oimon> drobo has a bad name, unless you have 2 of them
<dogmatic69> 400+ for just the unit
<diplo> I thought about those, but went for microserver in the end
<oimon> prorieaary raid
<oimon> proprietary
<Laney> tell me good / bad things about giffgaff, please
<Laney> :-)
<diplo> Run on o2 network which is good coverage for me
<diplo> Data tariff is unlimited
<dwatkins> oimon: yeah, I decided to stick with the netbook and a couple USB-attached disks.
<diplo> No issues for me apart from the big outtage they had a few months ago
<Laney> is the tethering ban enforced?
<diplo> Well, I'm not really sure, I've tetherred a few times
<dogmatic69> this levelone NAS has a web ui like synology. It just looks like it was written in 1997.
<diplo> and nowts been said, but I've also not done much either
<JohnRobert> heh
<directhex> o2 has wide coverage but diabolically bad data rates, afaik
<dogmatic69> "minimum requirements, ie5.5"
<JohnRobert> you know what really sucks
<DJones> Laney: http://www.reghardware.com/2012/05/21/review_uk_carriers_network_vs_network/
<JohnRobert> when your nas gets mashed up by lightening
<JohnRobert> :(
<JohnRobert> my 3tb hdd is ok
<JohnRobert> but the nas bit got destroyed
<JohnRobert> and now I'm on a mission to get the data off, but WD like to set up their hard disks funny
<popey> you back in the uk now JohnRobert ?
<dogmatic69> JohnRobert: no lightning protection?
<JohnRobert> 3tb with GUID partition and raid is a pita to recover..
<JohnRobert> no dogmatic69.
<dogmatic69> :/
<JohnRobert> yes popey, got back in feb.
<popey> oh
<JohnRobert> it rains all the time here
<JohnRobert> :()
<popey> hah
<JohnRobert> still, I got aus citizenship just before I left
<JohnRobert> just in case
<JohnRobert> :p
<directhex> JohnRobert, you can't do 3tb without GPT
<JohnRobert> gpt
<JohnRobert> that's what I meant
<Laney> hmmmmm
<JohnRobert> :p
<JohnRobert> yeah, I discovered it wasn't going to work with my usb2 enclosure so I've ordered some sata cables..
<DJones> Laney: That review/comparison has made me think that giffgaff wouldn't be too good for me because of the speed issue
<JohnRobert> iirc the kernel was getting the c/h/s all wrong
<Laney> DJones: yeah, i do like me 3g
<JohnRobert> I mean I have some semi important data on there (all my photos)
<Laney> i just gave them a tenner though, so let's have a go
<diplo> Its funny that giffgaff / o2 differ
<diplo> as they run on their network
<DJones> Laney: Its worth trying anyway, will be interested to see how you get on with it
<AlanBell> diplo: they don't differ beyond a margin of error in that graph
<diplo> No but shouldn't it be exactly the same :)
<diplo> and DJones I get fairly good speeds
<AlanBell> no two runs of the test are exactly the same
<AlanBell> not a very clueful review really (in terms of the speed part)
<oimon> Laney, i just signed up with GG last month
<Laney> oimon: happy?
<oimon> efficient porting process and management of purchasing goodybags
<Laney> ten squid is a fiver cheaper than i'm paying now
<Laney> as long as they don't really enforce the tethering thing
<oimon> i i moved from tmob to GG
<oimon> Â£15-Â£10
<dwatkins> I'm paying 13 quid a month for unlimited data (no tethering restriction) for a SIM-only deal with Three.
<oimon> i might go to the Â£5 pm thing
<oimon> internet only,
<oimon> then get the missis to switch to GG and use sipdroid for everything else
<oimon> t-mobile tried to suck me in by offering me Â£7.50pm deal after i'd requested PAC code
<oimon> but their coverage sucks and tbh they should offer me such deals earlier
<bigcalm> T-Mobile coverage also includes Orange coverage
<gord> y'know what suddenly stopped sucking like a year or two ago? 3 coverage, that made me happy
<diplo> T-Mobile/Orange around these here parts sucks most tremendously!
<bigcalm> Guess I'm just lucky where I go :)
<dwatkins> I'm in Edinburgh, where Three is pretty good all over. Probably is the case for most cities.
<diplo> Sister just finished a 2 year contract, not been able to use her phone at her house/my house or my mums :D
<SuperMatt> ok, so quick question
<SuperMatt> where in ubuntu does it run lightdm at startup?
<hamitron> heh, I just got an automated phone call from BT
<hamitron> it said "I am afraid we are unable to speak with you right now"
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> hamitron, urgh! speculative robodialing is the worst
<hamitron> kinda getting insane
<hamitron> our business line is getting about 20 calls per day now
<hamitron> some people here are starting to swear at them because it breaks them off from work
<hamitron> haha
<DJones> hamitron: 99 times out fo 100, you can never find out who's calling either, so you can't complain, pressing "5" to confirm you're not interested doesn't work, pressing "1" to speak to somebody about your claim doesn't work because they just hang up when you say you want to be removed from their database
<popey> there was a thing about this on watchdog the other day
<popey> they secret filmed a company just ripping pages out of the phone book and going through them
<popey> they flat out don't care
<bigcalm> If Thunderbird is reaching EOL, what's the desktop email client of choice?
<dwatkins> I thought it was just being handed over to the community
<bigcalm> Oh?
<bigcalm> Ok
<dwatkins> back later, that's what I thought I'd read though :)
<bigcalm> Is there a better client than Thunderbird that handles multiple IMAP accounts sensibly?
<gord> wish i could just use gmail
<bigcalm> I guess TB will be supported for the next 5 years anyway
<bigcalm> gord: I used to, but got fed up with all of the tabs
<popey> gord, you can can't you?
<popey> speak of the devil
<gord> for canonimail?
 * popey points bigcalm at chalcedony 
<popey> yes gord
<bigcalm> o.O
<popey> <bigcalm> I guess TB will be supported for the next 5 years anyway
<popey> ^^ chrisccoulson
<bigcalm> Heh
<brobostigon> thank you popey.
<bigcalm> Well, TB is in 12.04 LTS
<popey> i can see their point
<popey> what development does an email client _need_ ?
<bigcalm> It does what I need it to do, just want it to keep on doing it :)
<gord> popey: nope, no gmail :(
<brobostigon> popey: tht video shows perfectly, how a system should be, and how haiku has developed far beyond that, it impresses me, that that was possible like that. and still is.
<popey> yeah, tis interesting to see how well it worked under that set of tasks
<brobostigon> no system, i have came across since, can behave that way.
<brobostigon> on equal hw.
<brobostigon> this is why, i will always keep my BeBOX, as the hw this was designed for. and is tota;;y orignal.
<brobostigon> this is my reason, i will support the haiku effort. that video being perfect reasoning.
<brobostigon> debian simply cant do this on that equal hw, for example.
<popey> brobostigon, you actually have a bebox/
<popey> ?
<brobostigon> popey: i do, yes.
<brobostigon> it is my pride and joy,
<brobostigon> i am very protective of it.
<popey> heh
<popey> does it work?
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> i havent actually fired it up, in three years.
<popey> anyone here near preston?
 * popey pokes schwuk 
<popey> you're about the nearest aren't you?
<schwuk> popey: I suppose
<popey> how far is it from you? :)
<schwuk> popey: 90-odd miles
<popey> oh blimey, thats still quite a way
<popey> hmmm
 * popey suspects gmb might be closer
 * popey tickles gmb
<gmb> WUT?
<gmb> Yes
<gmb> I am.
<gmb> Near Preston.
<popey> how far you to preston man?
<popey> +english
<gmb> 25 miles or so.
<popey> oooh
<gmb> Wherefore, squire?
<popey> I may have a MASSIVE favour I need to ask you for :)
<gmb> Shoot
<popey> I am watching an ebay action for something about the size of a microwave oven, but not a microwave oven
<popey> dunno if I'll win it
<popey> but it's collection only
<gmb> "about the size of a microwave oven, but not a microwave oven" Mmmkay.
<popey> :D
<popey> and not drugs
<gmb> popey, IC. So, when does the auction end.
<popey> defo not drugs
<gmb> ?
<popey> sunday
<popey> but dunno how long they'll keep hold, will ask
<popey> need to then figure out if you're willing, how I'd get it from you :)
<bigcalm> That makes me think it's a microwave full of drugs
<popey> (no urgency, but it's delicate so posting is a bit of a no-no)
<popey> it is _NOT_ a microwave full of drugs
<brobostigon> the mistakes you make, as a 19 year old studant, with a NDA with Be.
<bigcalm> Hehe
<popey> it is the same size and weight as a microwave full of drugs though
<gmb> popey, If you win it, I'll happily collect it... I haven't got any plans to come down your way for a while, though.
<popey> np
<popey> ta
<bigcalm> It's a bobcat in a microwaveish box
<brobostigon> the interesting question is, does said NDA still apply. with whoever owns Be's intellectual property?
<brobostigon> in theory ACCESS CO., LTD.
<brobostigon> in theory ACCESS CO., LTD. own the intellecual property rights,
<brobostigon> but they arent doing anything,
<ali1234> argh after i fixed that bug another old one came back
<SuperEngineer> BBC News - Crowd-sourced funding site Kickstarter to launch in UK http://bbc.in/Ot7mDD
<SuperEngineer> - I wonder if Barclays is there?  ;)
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmm maybe i should refactor this code to use fixed point
<SuperEngineer> I had a very nasty dream [nightmare] last night - Microsoft had bought Canonical
<MartijnVdS> they haven't?
<SuperEngineer> ..then I woke up & pondered about "difference" between "being bought by" & "selling out to"
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: i.e. are you sure it was a dream?
<SuperEngineer> help me!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: hm?
<The_Fred> for the love of god make that be fake
<SuperEngineer> I'm am unwilling visionary
<MartijnVdS> most prophets are
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ;)
<daubers> Evening all
<daubers> AlanBell: Unfortunatley can't make the BBQ thing. Other doodahs have got in the way :)
<AlanBell> oh well, I will save you a sausage for next time we meet
<Laney> ;)
<daubers> Cool! If you do come down to RHS at any point in an evening, let me know and I'll meet you there
<MartijnVdS> <no comment>
<daubers> Have to admit I've let my Ubuntu stuff down a lot recently... become more and more involved in RHS and it's a bit all consuming when it starts
<daubers> screw herding cats, herding hackers is a lot harder
<AlanBell> you are not kidding
<SuperEngineer> daubers: what's a screw herding cat?
<SuperEngineer> a cat in an iron mongers?
<daubers> SuperEngineer: Cats in a prison?
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<daubers> AlanBell: I've found that with hackspaces, like the militry, it doesn't matter sometimes if the decision is right, sometimes you just make the decision and go with it
<daubers> Oh, and for some reason once you start doing that, if you stop, most other stuff stops too :(
<daubers> Not enough momentum
<AlanBell> yeah, momentum is good, as long as you are not going for a jog around beachy head
<daubers> heh :)
<daubers> Was it Leeds that did what SHH is proposing initially, then had to bail out and have now more or less got back on track?
<daubers> I'm sure someone did it
<AlanBell> dunno, SSH had a plan that if they hit all their targets and everything went perfectly would result in a 5.5k deficit
<daubers> Ooof
<daubers> Is that over 12 months?
<AlanBell> so they set a 5.5k "donations target" and decided it would be OK to proceed because the numbers now balanced
<AlanBell> actually they decided on the cheaper place that only needed a 3.5k donation target
<daubers> RHS are quite lucky in that someone just threw down a lot of money to get the ball rolling, and we're now nearly self sufficient. Once we pass that there is an agreement that he can retrieve that initial input.
<AlanBell> I think I managed to stop the momentum on that one by doing a slightly alarmed ragequit
<AlanBell> yeah I think RHS was done with eyes open and a benefactor who was up for bankrolling it to a realistic extent
<czajkowski> the one in ireland started off with montly meetings and everyone paying 20/30 quid for 6 months to get the deposit
<czajkowski> then they got a a small place
<czajkowski> only after 2 years there did they move to a much larger place
<daubers> Reading will probably be looking for a bigger place towards the end of next year (or if we can find a nice fat gov. grant)
<AlanBell> for doing pre-space donations like that the VAT handling has to be done very carefully
<AlanBell> it looks a lot like fraud if you put vat on it, and a VAT scam if you don't
<daubers> Someone shoulf write a "How to start/fund a hackspace" book
<daubers> I keep meaning to buy a copy of Jono's book to see if it applies
<Seeker`> daubers: Where in Reading is it?
<daubers> Seeker`: It's in Woodley
<daubers>  RG5 4SQ
<daubers> Apparently it's full of people working on RepRaps at the moment
<Seeker`> ah, k
<Seeker`> I have relatives in Twyford
<Seeker`> and Caversham
<Seeker`> hence I know the area a bit :)
<daubers> Ah :) Until about 2 months ago I lived in Tilehurst :)
 * The_Fred reminices of uni days in reading
<The_Fred> hey guys,i was wondering if searching for .desktop files would be a good way to find out which programs i have installed on ubuntu?
 * bigcalm returns
<dogmatic69> When using nfs do I need to mount the drives on startup?
<dogmatic69> or does mount -t nfs server:/folder /local/folder do it permanently
<hamitron> you can put them in fstab
<hamitron> mount is just a one off mount command afaik
<dogmatic69> hamitron: what if the server is not available on boot?
<hamitron> not sure, mine always is
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> I have fiddled with fstab on aws and then deleted the mounted drive and the instance would not boot :/
<dogmatic69> I think it was fstab
<hamitron> http://linux.die.net/man/5/nfs
<dogmatic69> The NAS *should* always be on, just dont want to be locked out if its down
<hamitron> dogmatic69: if soft mount option ok?
<hamitron> is*
<dogmatic69> hmm
<hamitron> or you could maybe make a separate script I suppose
<dogmatic69> just read that section. Would rather opt for data integrity
<hamitron> yeh, I was thinking the same
<dogmatic69> I currently use a launcher script for shfs, I will just change the commands there
<hamitron> yeh, sounds best
<dogmatic69> Moving from shfs on the box to nfs on the nas anyway
<hamitron> and make sure it won't halt booting if it fails
<hamitron> :)
<dogmatic69> when the server is not available boot is slow, well it hangs just after login
<dogmatic69> with shfs that is
<dogmatic69> also, what happens if you do mount server:/foo /something/that/exists
<dogmatic69> does it kill the files off, or just fail to mount
<hamitron> I'd guess fail to mount, but maybe worth trying
<hamitron> could make the empty directory write only by root, then mount it in that?
<hamitron> then unprivilaged stuff that may write to it, will not get access
<dogmatic69> ye, I will test it out
<dogmatic69> just broke nautalis
<dogmatic69> :/
<hamitron> plz let me know, or I will have to test
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I hate not been sure about simple things
<hamitron> :/
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> Happens all the time with php code I write. Not quite sure on something so end up having to write a whole bunch of test code to see what happens
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Forthcoming CLS/OSCON Schedule - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/10/forthcoming-clsoscon-schedule/
<dogmatic69> bah.
<dogmatic69> nautilis is dead
<dogmatic69> hmm, 'ls' in terminal does nothing
<hamitron> dogmatic69: it has a "bg" option for fstab from reading
<hamitron> so it retries re-mounts in the background, rather than seeming to hang
<dogmatic69> oh nice
<dogmatic69> just got to reboot quick. try fix the damn file browser
<hamitron> anyone know what happens if your root filesystem is on an external drive, and you remove the drive?
<hamitron> can you plug it back in, and not have problems?
<hamitron> works on Windows 7, just wondering about ubuntu
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> hamitron: because windows is so slow to realise the drive was removed, you had it back in already :D
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> it just waits
<hamitron> and doesn't do anything
<hamitron> which is useful, when I unmount my main hdd
<hamitron> haha
<dogmatic69> hamitron: I will assume from the fact that live cd works, linux/ubuntu would be about the same
<hamitron> use a driver that supports that for my sata ports, so can use the hdd caddy
<dogmatic69> all the good bits are in ram, just dont try save anything
<hamitron> me save my work? ;/
<hamitron> loads more fun to have a power cut ;)
<dogmatic69> man. cant ls again
<dogmatic69> something with this nfs is messing things up
<dogmatic69> Is there a way to unmount somehting that is "busy"
<Darael> fuser it to find out what's using it, then kill the process?
<dogmatic69> Darael: how do you "fuser" it?
<ali1234> umount -l
<ali1234> don't think it works on nfs though
<ali1234> nfs is a beast
<dogmatic69> \o/
<ali1234> see also lsof
<dogmatic69> ali1234: just found that on SO, and works
<dogmatic69> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/40317/force-unmount-of-nfs-mounted-directory
<ali1234> oh, it might *seem* like it works :)
<ali1234> then bad stuff happens
<ali1234> like you can't remount it
<ali1234> nfs should be avoided when possible
<dogmatic69> ye, tell me about it
<dogmatic69> dont want to reboot... again
<hamitron> ali1234: what would you use as a remote filesystem?
<ali1234> i wouldn't
<dogmatic69> SMB
<dogmatic69> that seems ok
<ali1234> i use syncing instead
<hamitron> I've had more problems with samba than nfs tbh
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> ali1234: syncing as in duplicate the files?
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> but I haven't had problems with nfs since I "got it working"
<dogmatic69> thats great, but does not work for 100's of GB
<hamitron> what about sshfs?
<dogmatic69> I have been using shfs for a while, not sure the nas I got can use it though
<dogmatic69> where do I find smb via the terminal?
<hamitron> what you mean find smb?
<dogmatic69> well natilis has it as smb://cliffjumper/photos/
<dogmatic69> smb://server/folder
<hamitron> oh, it is a hidden directory in your home folder
<hamitron> .g*fs I think
 * hamitron has his in /mnt, by using fstab
<dogmatic69> ah, .gvfs
<dogmatic69> how do you do that?
<hamitron> in fstab?
<hamitron> you could use the mount command too
<dogmatic69> how would that be? mount smb://foo bar or mount .gvfs/foo bar
<dogmatic69> shfs does not work in this instance, no ssh
<hamitron> mount -t cifs
<hamitron> iirc
<hamitron> you gotta pass it options too
<hamitron> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/how-to-mount-remote-windows-partition-windows-share-under-linux.html
<dogmatic69> :O
<dogmatic69> you have to put the pw in the command
<hamitron> yeh :/
<dogmatic69> lame
<dogmatic69> may as well just not use a pw then
<hamitron> I'd assume there is a way around it
<hamitron> well, you don't have to let people have access to the script
<hamitron> :)
<dogmatic69> ye, but if they did somehow
<dogmatic69> ah, you can use a credentials file
<dogmatic69> slightly better
<dogmatic69> the issue in the cmd is that it will be in the logs too then
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-11
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hello brobostigon and anyone else watching this window/tab
<brobostigon> hello dwatkins
<arsen> morning all :)
<popey> morning
<popey> anyone used remote desktop with virtualbox? it implies you can RDP to a VM from another host but it doesn't seem to enable for me.
<popey> I have "Enable server" and port 3389 set in virtualbox
<popey> but the port isn't open
<dwatkins> you might have to do port stuffs to enable it, popey - I vaguely remember doing that for ssh
<popey> its on the LAN
<popey> what do you mean by "port stuffs"
<dwatkins> popey: effectively allowing the port to be forwarded by its NAT virtual firewall
<dwatkins> ...or is it bridged?
<popey> no, you remote to the host IP
<popey> so the documentation says
<dwatkins> I assume it's enabled in the guest OS
<popey> no
<popey> its not a feature of the guest
<popey> its a feature of virtualbox
<dwatkins> oh that, it's a different port, iirc
<popey> it says 3389
<popey> but remmina on the box next to it can't connect
<popey> "Unable to connect to RDP server 10.10.10.131"
<dwatkins> does it even initiate the connection if you telnet to that IP/port?
<popey> no
<popey> yet its "enabled" in virtualbox
<popey> and I have guest additions installed
<dwatkins> if you use the cmdline VBoxManage option to show options, is vrde on?
<dwatkins> I don't have a machine here, but that shouldn't be too difficult to find in its --help options
<dwatkins> "Even when the extension is installed, the VRDP server is disabled by default. It can easily be enabled on a per-VM basis either in the VirtualBox Manager in the "Display" settings (see the section called âDisplay settingsâ) or with VBoxManage"
<popey> its enabled in the menu and in the settings dialog
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> I wonder if the entire service needs restarting for it to take effect, popey
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/vbox.png
<popey> perhaps..
<popey> nope
<popey> gonna just vnc to the guest, i know that will work :(
<dwatkins> yeah :-/
<dwatkins> I wonder if x11vnc works on the RPi yet...
<popey> haha, oops
<popey> vnc to the guest IP gets me VNC to the host!
<dwatkins> sounds like it's NAT'ed
<popey> bridged
<popey> oh, no, wrong IP :D
<dwatkins> perhaps there's MAC address wierdness
<dwatkins> ahhh
<popey> crashed virtualbox :D
<dwatkins> ouch
<arsen> erp
<popey> right, that doesn't work, i presume because of the guest extensions
<popey> sheesh
 * popey moves the VM to this machine to run locally
<dwatkins> I should probably upgrade the RAM in my netbook to run VirtualBox.
<dwatkins> We use vmware at work, so I don't have VB here.
<popey> oddly i just downloaded virtualbox from their website, clicked the deb, software center opens and shows me the wrong screenshot
 * popey files a bug in USC
<arsen> what's the screenshot then?:o
<popey> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/109808270/Selection_101.png
<popey> askubuntu lens
<arsen> heh
<dwatkins> popey: wouldn't it be the IP address of the host you'd use to connect to the console of a guest?
<popey> yes
<popey> thats what I did
<dwatkins> ah ok, curioser and curioser, perhaps you have RDP enabled already and the port conflicts
<popey> i gave up :)
<popey> scp the vdi to another machine
<dwatkins> fair enough
<dwatkins> ...and the rain comes down
<dwatkins> I was waiting for the kettle to boil, watching out the window in a meeting room, and someone walks in asking if I've booked the room for the day...
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dwatkins> hiya bigcalm
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<czajkowski> Good morning
<Monotoko> morning all
<oimon> anyone seen that ouya android under TV PC announced on kickstarter?
<oimon> problem is  ,by the time it's out, there will probably be plenty other decent options too
<jussi> oimon: I can give you a box which runs android for your tv tomorrow
<oimon> similar to this? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console
<Monotoko> I saw it yesterday... it looks pretty damn cool
<Monotoko> Mar 2013 as well is the shipping date they are going for... I think they can keep ahead if they hit that
<oimon> i want a sub Â£99 arm box under my telly
<oimon> but more powerful than a rasp pi
<directhex> i'm reaaaaaaaaaly unconvinced about ouya
<diplo> oimon: You can buy the tablet boards with ICS on them with out the tablets
<bigcalm> "Congratulations! Your account is now enabled for uploads longer than 15 minutes." This is a special day :)
<codecowboy> hi. i am trying to access a samba share on a virtual machine from windows 7. i could browse as a guest but when i switch off gues mode, i cannot authenticate. do i need to add a user on the linux side with the same name as my windows user?
<bigcalm> codecowboy: that's one way. The other is to login to the share using different credentials
<codecowboy> bigcalm: thanks. no credentials i use seem to work :(
<codecowboy> bigcalm: i did smbpasswd with an existing user
<bigcalm> You may have to enter the username as WORKGROUP\username
<gord> i fixed this *exact* problem a few weeks ago
<gord> it would be helpful if i remembered how
<bigcalm> gord: stopped using cifs?
<oimon> gord, did it involve a regedit hack?
<gord> noo, it was on the ubuntus side
<bigcalm> That shouldn't be required
<oimon> got your / and \ the right way round?
<oimon> does an entry exist in the DNS for both machines?
<bigcalm> oimon: codecowboy can connect as a guest
<gord> codecowboy: i think i used system-config-samba to fix it somehow
<oimon> bigcalm, i would expect the authentication to be different though, and may rely on correctly resoving the hostname
<oimon> maybe a dump of the smb.conf would help
<gord> nooo its not that
<gord> i fixed this, nothing in smb.conf fixes it
 * Monotoko facepalms
<bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm7biXXMkek # skip to 1:25 for the action to start
<Monotoko> I swear.. if I get one more buggy PHP module from my bosses indian devs -.-
<BigRedS> PHP's supposed to be buggy!
<bigcalm> It's how we make money
<Monotoko> it's a database system! They gave me a flat file module that I can't track -.-
<Monotoko> so I'm having to create an ad-hoc way to try and track which themes are being used where
<codecowboy> gord: does any of this sound familiar? http://askubuntu.com/questions/19361/cant-access-ubuntus-shared-folders-from-windows-7
<gord> nooo
<The_Fred> hello
<oimon> whenever i think i look a bit rough, i check chris moyles wikipedia page and remind myself than he is only 1 yr older than me
<oimon> stupid ctrl-w
<oimon> was trying to close the wikipedia page..
<Laney> grr
<Laney> why aren't generated and saved passwords reconciled in lastpass >:(
<oimon> how can i map ctrl-alt-L to lock my screen in cinnamon :-\
<czajkowski> Might be of interest to folks tomorrow, http://blog.launchpad.net/general/maas-webinar
<Laney> it ain't a maas demo unless somebody trips over a cable
<directhex> monkeys as a service? never going to end well
<Laney> it is a grand project trying to reproduce shakespeare
<directhex> why use monkeys, when there are a load of out-of-job pigeons?
<directhex> i hear google use pandas now, not pigeons, to do their search ranking
<Laney> well, nobody knows the behaviour of infinite numbers of pigeons
<Laney> whereas monkeys are well studied
<directhex> "it was the best of times, it was the blurst of times"
<codecowboy> gord: dont supopse you remember the windows7 issue? i have been busy trying everything under the sun and rebooting, still no luck
<gord> use system-config-samba to fix it
<gord> i don't know what it is, but that is what i used
<codecowboy> gord: i dont have that. i am using a server VM, not a gui.
<gord> well then i don't know how to fix it
<codecowboy> Anyone know why I might be able to browse a samba share from windows 7 but not be able to authenticate?
<codecowboy> gord: ok thanks
<AlanBell> Laney: so true, that was the best product demo evar
<Laney> I was certainly sold
<popey> shame they cut the trip
<AlanBell> it is a shame so much was cut
<Laney> it lives on in our hearts
<AlanBell> Daviey is a hero
<Daviey> thanks chaps. :)
<AlanBell> Daviey: do you have the unedited video?
<Daviey> prep'ing a demo at runtime is always good.
<Laney> lazy evaluation
<Daviey> AlanBell: not for public consumption.
<AlanBell> so thats a yes then
<AlanBell> Daviey bottom line was the demo *worked* even with all the funny bits
<oimon> u1 files isn't working on my android :(
<oimon> anyone else have this issue?
<oimon> cannot sign into u1
<gord> oimon: error here
<bigcalm> aquarius: what have you broken?
<oimon> i've tried 1) device > Settings > Manage applications > Ubuntu One Files > Force close, Clear app data 2) device > Settings > Accounts & sync > remove the Ubuntu account 3) device > Settings > Date & time > Automatic -- checked 4) relaunch Ubuntu One Files
<oimon> still not working
<oimon> https://one.ubuntu.com/help/contact/
<oimon> LOL
<oimon> oh, the whole of u1 is shagged
<Laney> pretty sure they have a channel
<popey> #ubuntuone
<gord> pretty sure they know about it though
<Laney> you're much more likely to find informed people there rather than here
<DJones> oimon: That was commented on in #ubuntu, it was working for some people, just not for others
<dogmatic69> how can I get the user id and group id
<popey> uid
<popey> gid
<popey> er
<popey> id
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: type id
<popey> i _always_ think it's uid then type it and go "oh yeah" and type id
<dogmatic69> nice, thanks
<Laney> laney@raleigh> uid                                                                                     ~/dev/ubuntu/packaging/random/emacs24
<Laney> zsh: correct 'uid' to 'id' [nyae]?
<Laney> ^_^
<livingdaylight> haro
<popey> boo
<brobostigon> what is the affect called, where in both of the earth hemispheres, water flows opposite?
 * Laney is distressed that he forgot to start this 10 hour build (over ssh) under screen
<Laney> brobostigon: do you mean the corolis effect?
<Laney> coriollis?
 * Laney spulling ez hrd
<brobostigon> thank you Laney , yes, :)
<popey> Laney, what is this arm lunacy you are building?
<Laney> ghc
<popey> !info ghc
<lubotu3> ghc (source: ghc): The Glasgow Haskell Compilation system. In component universe, is extra. Version 7.4.1-1ubuntu2 (precise), package size 40485 kB, installed size 196973 kB
<livingdaylight> sorry to trouble anyone/everyone, who might know : I've just put a pc together using an Asus P8H61 motherboard and immediately installed ubuntu on a new 500gb sata3 hd, but the live cd came up really sluggish, but, regardless, I went ahead and still installed it, however, its still not running as it should. system is slow to respond basically. Any advice/insights on the matter, please?
<popey> oh
<Laney> yeah, that!
<popey> livingdaylight, what video card?
<Laney> testing a bootstrap, although the unstoppable adam conrad will have to pres butan in the end
<livingdaylight> popey, the motherboard comes with its own onboard graphics. I haven't installed a dedicated card
<popey> livingdaylight, what CPU?
<livingdaylight> popey, i3 2120
<popey> some intel thing by the look of it?
<gord> bah, raid rebuilding is gonna take hours, dumb slow spinning things
<popey> livingdaylight, open a terminal, run top, see whats eating cpu?
<popey> livingdaylight, how much RAM does it have?
<livingdaylight> popey, 8gb on 1 stick
<popey> livingdaylight, soo.. top?
<livingdaylight> popey, maybe this reveals something : http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/toplvg.png/
<popey> not especially
<popey> can you be more specific about the issue?
<livingdaylight> clicking on things long delays; for eg the update icon on panel
<popey> define long
<livingdaylight> sluggish.... either not responding or long delay
<popey> can you quantify it?
<livingdaylight> with new i3 and 8gb or ram I expect to be flying
<AlanBell> livingdaylight: how many seconds to start libreoffice writer?
<livingdaylight> AlanBell, 4 seconds
<popey> thats good
<AlanBell> that is pretty quick
<livingdaylight> guys, it seems to be picking up speed
<AlanBell> the update icon will be downloading tons of stuff and blocking on your network connection I expect
<livingdaylight> I trust I connected all the wires right on the motherboard etc
<livingdaylight> Ok, due a reboot due to updates including kernel, brb
<livingdaylight> THANX
<Laney> haha
<Laney> first boot, was probably building caches and stuff
<livingdaylight> seems that when I respond to the update notification on panel it doesn't respond. I have to go through power button and ask it to install updates
<livingdaylight> another 'restart'
<livingdaylight> I now have the system not responding to my mouse. It only enables me to launch programs, but for instance, when I launched FF and tried to open a new tab, I couldn't. Or when launching X-chat I wanted to go to edit to add ubuntu-uk to the default list of rooms and again, couldn't. Its as if screen froze. I just put new batteries in this wireless mouse.
<livingdaylight> can not even open the workspace switcher now
<livingdaylight> After a new build does one have to first insert the accompanying dvd to the motherboard? or should it be ok to immediately install Ubuntu?
<The_Fred> id go for install
<popey> livingdaylight, does it work fine from the keyboard?
<popey> i.e. if you press the windows/super key, do you get the dash pop up quickly?
<popey> if you open a text editor like gedit, and type do the keystrokes appear quickly?
<popey> I wouldn't do a clean install given you've only just installed this, thats a brute force approach which won't solve the issue
<livingdaylight> popey, keyboard works fine. Roles have reversed. Before it was the keyboard that the system was sluggish in responding to.
 * popey goes to a meeting...
<livingdaylight> mouse is not launching anything anymore. Only allows me to swtch rooms withing xchat
<livingdaylight> re: clean install. I was referring to the fact that I installed Ubuntu before doing anything on this fresh built-system including first inserting the motherboard's accomanying dvd. Maybe, that would install necessary drivers etc to make subsequent installation of os more smooth-running.
 * bigcalm wonders if popey will make it out alive
<ali1234> hmm... just discovered that this wordpress site is really slow if two people try to use it at the same time
 * BigRedS wonders if that SQLite wordpress backend was such a good idea after all
<diplo> BigRedS: / bigcalm : Know if pear Mail package is dependant on anything apart from sendmail being installed to work ?
<BigRedS> diplo: I've no idea. I always end up swearing when I use PHP
<bigcalm> diplo: shouldn't be dependant on anything
<diplo> :(
<diplo> I want to blame this on something else :)
<bigcalm> diplo: you want it to be dependant on something?
<bigcalm> 1st step: can you send email from the box by other means?
<diplo> No, still on this old php4 code
<bigcalm> 2nd step: do you have access to an SMTP relay?
<diplo> Got 99% working, and email was the last thing
<bigcalm> 3rd step: what does `which sendmail` give you?
<diplo> mail command is not installed, but sendmail is up and running, so haven't tested it per se from local box
<diplo> Suppose I should just install it and test
<BigRedS> you should be able to simply pipe into it
<BigRedS> that's what php does
<BigRedS> hang on
<diplo> I've used the Mail.php package loads of times and never had issues before :P
<diplo> /usr/sbin/sendmail
<BigRedS> diplo: https://gist.github.com/3090340
<diplo> will try debuginfo i guess
<BigRedS> that sort of thing
<diplo> ok, will try ta
<diplo> I like that, didn't know you could do it like that
<diplo> It works
<diplo> So defo the php code :/
 * diplo delves deeper
<diplo> rah found it, that took longer than expected
<bigcalm> What was wrong?
<diplo> Sorry got called awat
<diplo> Umm from address was being grabbed from a session id that didn't exist so had @domain.com
<diplo> and so failed
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I just spent a while fixing a problem like that
<BigRedS> which reminds me. What're current favourites for bugtrackers?
<BigRedS> Needs to look management-friendly and also let me interact with it by email
<BigRedS> ideally interact with SVN and Git repos, too, just to make it harder
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I happily use trac
<bigcalm> BigRedS: trac comes with built in support for svn. git support with a plugin (not yet tested)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: trac will send out emails, I don't know if it will receive emails - not something we've needed
<BigRedS> bigcalm: cool, ta! Looks management friendly, too
<BigRedS> receiving email's isn't *that* necessary
<BigRedS> I'm just looking to replace both ad-hoc emails and a mediawiki-based to-do list
<Laney> if you like email, you want debbugs :-)
<Laney> (you probably don't like email as much as it wants you to, though)
<BigRedS> haha, no, I don't want it to look like email
<BigRedS> but more pertinently I want something that measn the people who currently email me and/or edit that wiki page can file proper bugs without too much goading
<AlanBell> BigRedS: redmine is working for me on a project right now
<AlanBell> you can put issue numbers in git commit messages and it then does the right thing with them and links to the issues
<Daviey> AlanBell: how 2007!
<BigRedS> Ew. Redmine?
<BigRedS> We have customers running that...
 * mattt likes redmine
<BigRedS> Yeah, I think we've had too much trouble with that in general for me to be able to persuade anybody that using it is a good idea
<BigRedS> Gah. Why does everything insist on writing times in its own definition of human-readable in it's logs. This is what epoch timestamps are for
<AlanBell> Daviey: yeah, it isn't rocket science I guess
<bigcalm> AlanBell: trac does the commit message to ticket number linking as well
<bigcalm> And you can reference a revision number in a ticket which will then link
<dogmatic69> what is the best way to rsync www-data files to a smb share as a different user?
<AlanBell> yeah, trac is quite good, I have used that before
<AlanBell> the main reason I picked redmine this time was that I hadn't used it
<dogmatic69> eg: I am logged in as dogmatic69 and need to rsync www-data files to smb://whatever. 'rsync: chgrp foo/bar failed. Permission denied' all the time
<dogmatic69> the folder is mounted with uid=1000,gid=1000 (dogmatic69:dogmatic69) and I am in the www-data group
<dogmatic69> all the files are g+rw for wwww-data:www-data
<AlanBell> BigRedS: the other possibility is to use launchpad or github commercial project stuff
<AlanBell> we kind of like it being on our own infrastructure though
<BigRedS> AlanBell: yeah, this needs to be internal
<BigRedS> aside from anything else I want it to talk to an SVN repo that has no outside access
<BigRedS> currently most of my stuff's on github
<AlanBell> wonder if launchpad will support git one day
<BigRedS> don't they keep releasing bzr propaganda?
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I recently got gitlab working (open source version of github). It's very nice :)
<BigRedS> oooh
 * popey wonders if chrisccoulson knows the answer to http://askubuntu.com/questions/162268/adding-x-scheme-handler-without-a-popup-in-firefox :D
<popey> gitlab is nice!
<popey> really, _really_ nice
<bigcalm> BigRedS: happy to give you an account if you want to give it a try
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I am interested
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ok :)
<BigRedS> bigcalm: it looks easy enough to install, I might just do that actually! :)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: go for it :)
<popey> it has the popey stamp of approval
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> [APPROVED]
<AlanBell> BigRedS: I have not seen any bzr stuff or documentation updates for a long time
<BigRedS> Oh, I'm sure someone posted a "Here's why bzr is better than git" thing a few weeks back
<bigcalm> AlanBell: pm me an email address you like to use for things :)
<BigRedS> maybe not launchpad, just not sure who else that I follow would do that
<BigRedS> either way, it gets asked for a _lot_; I've no idea how easily bzr and git can coexist on teh same repo
<AlanBell> bigcalm: alanbell at ubuntu.com
<bigcalm> AlanBell: user created. You should have been sent a welcome email. If not I'll give you login details here
<bigcalm> Humm, I have a feeling that queues aren't being processed
<bigcalm> AlanBell: have you had a welcome email yet?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: nope
<bigcalm> Ok, ta. I shall poke things
<AlanBell> that address goes to gmail, it isn't there yet
<bigcalm> Know anything about redis? I can see things in queues that aren't moving
<BigRedS> I'm supposed to be installing it this afternoon
<BigRedS> but that's all I know about it :)
<bigcalm> Heh, more than me :D
<bigcalm> Heh, stopping and starting gitlab kicked out 3 emails and 39 other jobs
<bigcalm> AlanBell: yhm (I think)
<bigcalm> Yikes
<bigcalm> My gitlab home page looks quite different now :D
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah, I have a mail, you might want to fix that homepage ;)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: the login screen?
<n1md4> BigRedS: You probably want to send me your irssirc :D
<popey> AlanBell, wassup with the home page?
<bigcalm> popey: drop the port number
<popey> sweet!
<bigcalm> Heh, no, not really
<bigcalm> I need to do a redirect
<BigRedS> n1md4: the pertinent line is ignores = ( { level = "JOINS PARTS QUITS"; } );
<AlanBell> gitlab is rather nice
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: feel free to make a project and use it as you want
<bigcalm> In fact, I believe that the default is 10 projects per new account
<bigcalm> AlanBell: go wild ;)
<AlanBell> that is very very much like github
<AlanBell> looks and works nice
 * AlanBell wishes launchpad would look a bit more presentable
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> AlanBell, patches welcome ;)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Is LP in LP?
<popey> bzr branch lp:launchpad
 * popey assumes
<AlanBell> launchpad is kinda big
<popey> blame gmb
<gmb> Blame Zope.
<bigcalm> Zope on a rope?
<gmb> If I had my way, yes.
<bigcalm> :D
<gmb> Sadly, six years of hysterical raisins means that we're stuck with the bugger.
<gmb> But yes: bzr branch lp:launchpad is the ticket.
<gmb> Better yet, https://dev.launchpad.net/Getting
<AlanBell> so the stylesheet such as it is appears to be https://launchpad.net/+icing/rev15593/combo.css
<AlanBell> and there is an inline style block on the homepage
 * AlanBell wonders how long bzr branch lp:launchpad is going to take
<popey> $TIME
<AlanBell> and whether the css is actually in that
<gord> heh, i think the only thing with a longer bzr history might be lp:bzr ;)
<gord> you can use the web code browser thingy to see the contents right now though
<AlanBell> yeah, I had a look round and couldn't find it
<AlanBell> I dunno how to search using that
<gord> from the url, +icing suggests that its generated
<AlanBell> so instead I will get my laptop to give launchpad a kicking downloading launchpad then use grep
<gord> +<name> is normally a python command
<AlanBell> yeah, I figured the +icing meant something like that
<AlanBell> just wonder if that is stored in a separate project
<BigRedS> df -h
<bigcalm> -su: df: command not found
<AlanBell> /dev/irc       38TB    38TB  0B 100% /
<bigcalm> IIRC, kvirc came with a terminal window. Most strange
<AlanBell> we have filled up the inter<carrier lost>
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: psh, you have tiny internets
<bigcalm> With just 38TB?
<dogmatic69> any idea on how to fix up smb permission problems
<AlanBell> wonder if df knows about exabytes
<BigRedS> my df still does stupid linebreaks :(
<BigRedS> and I've still not got the hang of terminator :)
<bigcalm> 2 hours until I head off to the LUG. 2.5 hours until I get some yummy surf and turf
<bigcalm> That's odd, where's davmor2?
<bigcalm> I wonder if he'll turn up tonight
<bigcalm> gord: did you see I made you a new video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm7biXXMkek - 24 hours worth in 5m37s
<gord> fantastic :P
<bigcalm> Dawn is at about 1:25
<bigcalm> But the real fun starts at about 4:00
<bigcalm> Today's sky has been more interesting. So the video I make tomorrow shall be too :D
<AlanBell> ali1234: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-960-000767-C920-HD-Webcam/dp/B006A2Q81M/ref=pd_sim_computers_1 is this the camera I need to get?
<ali1234> ah, good question
<ali1234> i've read some people complaining that the C920 is not as good as the C910
<ali1234> they are still both very good though
<AlanBell> 920 has a tripod mount which sounds useful
<ali1234> ah... that would be useful
<ali1234> actually i think the C910 has it too
<ali1234> maybe not... not sure what i'm looking for
<AlanBell> threaded hole in the bottom, about 5mm across and 5mm deep
<ali1234> guess not then
<AlanBell> yeah, screw mount only on the 920
<ali1234> there's some removable panel on the 910 which seems to have no purpose. could probably made an adapter for that
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3mwafEL724 someone did a video comparison and she glued on a tripod mount to the 910
<AlanBell> the 920 has onboard H264 encoding somehow apparently
<bigcalm> Benefit	Left until your next bill
<bigcalm> Unlimited T-Mobile Calls
<bigcalm> 9999999 null
<bigcalm> Oops
<ali1234> yeah the 910 has MJPEG
<ali1234> i'd say get the 920
<bigcalm> Cor, MMS cost me 25p each. I'll stick to emailing from my phone I think
<AlanBell> I just bought: 'Logitech C920 HD Webcam' by Logitech
<bigcalm> Do people really need to say 'real' ale any more?
<directhex> bigcalm, as long as newcastle brown has "ale" in the name, yes.
<bigcalm> directhex: I mean, are people still making a fuss about 'real ales' rather than just having local ales on tap?
<bigcalm> What's the difference between a real ale and ale?
<bigcalm> Ah, 2nd fermentation
<Laney> real ale is a term defined by camra
<dogmatic69> anyone want to take a stab at http://serverfault.com/questions/406834/rsync-permission-errors-on-smbfs-share
 * bigcalm nods to Laney
 * Laney raises a glass to bigcalm 
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: you not a fan of "fake ale"?
<bigcalm> Laney: does it have a handle?
<Laney> i only have half pint glasses with handles :(
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I like IPAs mostly, they don't tend to be fake. There are a few great breweries around here. Shropshire Gold is my favourite when I can get it
 * dogmatic69 is not an ale fan
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/view/head:/lib/canonical/launchpad/icing/css/layout.css love the comment at the start of that file
<BigRedS> haha
<dogmatic69> Time to install girlfriendbuntu
<bigcalm> Yikes, it's gone 6pm!
<GhstWlf> Hello people, Where can I find eth0, tap0 etc. in ubuntu 12.04?
<brobostigon> GhstWlf: in /dev
<GhstWlf> brobostigon, no, it is not there
<brobostigon> GhstWlf: does said network device show in ifconfig/iwconfig ?
<GhstWlf> yes
<brobostigon> it will be in /dev then.
<directhex> most network devices don't show in /dev/net
<brobostigon> they should show in /dev/*0 etc.
<brobostigon> like /dev/eth0
<directhex> there's some existential entries in /sys/class/net/
<brobostigon> ah,
<GhstWlf> I find them in /sys/class/net/
<dogmatic69> Is there a safe way of running snmp over public ip's
<dwatkins> ssh tunnels? ;)
<dogmatic69> hmm
<dogmatic69> never done them before
<dogmatic69> can the tunnel be setup from either end?
<Myrtti> ho hum.
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: any clues? :)
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: if you can ssh from one machine to the other, you can tunnel traffic along that connection
<dwatkins> I don't know anything about snmp, but that's what I do with VNC.
<dogmatic69> I am sure the principal is the same no matter the data / application
<dogmatic69> basically snmp is server -> request -> client -> response -> server
<dogmatic69> request is "whats your cpu usage"
<popey> dogmatic69, http://www.morch.com/2011/07/05/forwarding-snmp-ports-over-ssh-using-socat/
<ali1234> tl;dr snmp is udp, socat converts it to tcp so you can forward it through ssh
<ali1234> also, i always wondered why everything in linux is a file, except for eth0 etc
<GhstWlf> ali1234, I think that the original idea of unix is that everything is a file in a keep-it-simple-stupid
<ali1234> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/23199/why-are-network-interfaces-not-in-dev-like-other-devices
<GhstWlf> ali1234, plan9 and inferno keeps everything as a file.
<MikeA> Printer sorted - restarted and it seems to have worked fine....do'h, why didnt I try that in the first instance!  Thanks for the assistance, as ever, this is a wonderful place full of wonderful people :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Good evening from the LUG
<AlanBell> hello bigcalm_laptop and the lug people
<bigcalm_laptop> o/
 * bigcalm_laptop waves with a pint
<Azelphur> luggers are invading, take cover :p
<bigcalm_laptop> Well, it might just be me
<bigcalm_laptop> Any other Wolves LUG peeps in here?
<Azelphur> I'm having a quick bash at making my own ksplice patches to see if I can do rebootless updates
<ali1234> rebootless updates are so last year
<bigcalm_laptop> gord: are you in Wolves tomorrow?
<ali1234> it's all about the forced reboot updates now
<Azelphur> ali1234: yet nobody seems to be able to do it any more
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<ali1234> hmm, i might have made the AI unbeatable
<ali1234> except that it has one tiny flaw
<Azelphur> don't build skynet please
<ali1234> it doesn't understand when it is driving in the wrong direction
<Azelphur> I want to live
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> AI does the course in 32 second
<ali1234> i can do it in 30 seconds at most
<ali1234> or least rather
<ali1234> oh yeah and the AI isn't even driving at full speed. it is limited to 90% of maximum acceleration
<ali1234> :/
<ali1234> gah, one of the AI just beat the record. 31.5 seconds
<gord> bigcalm_laptop: doesn't look like it
<dogmatic69> lol
<Azelphur> anyone know how I would take colors that are near black (dark grey, etc) and make them black, in gimp?
<ali1234> levels tool
<Azelphur> ty *looks at it*
<ali1234> colours->levels
<ali1234> actually it depends what you really want to do
<ali1234> if you want to adjust the whole image relatively then use levels
<Azelphur> nah I don't want to adjust the whole image relatively
<ali1234> you probably do actually
<Azelphur> I literally want to do what I said, dark greys / whites to absolute black
<ali1234> if you adjust only the dark ones, well, there's a more or less continuous spectrum
<ali1234> you'll get a step
<Azelphur> o.O
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/2012/July/duo.png
<Azelphur> I want to take the white dusty stuff out of the touch pad for example
<ali1234> you want levels for that
<Azelphur> ok
<ali1234> open levels tool and you see the histrogram (graph thing on top)
<ali1234> at the bottom there's three ^'s
<ali1234> drag the leftmost one towards the middle
<ali1234> then move the middle one to the left
<ali1234> you can see that the image is mostly black from the histogram
<Azelphur> cool, ty :)
<ali1234> they the shorter bars are the greys
<ali1234> they there's another bump at the right, which is the white pixels
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> really levels tool is the only thing you need
<ali1234> brightness/contrast controls are just a simplified levels control
<ali1234> you can do a lot with only levels and gaussian blur, such as the wallpaper i posted on g+ the other day
<ali1234> it's all i ever really use :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: link to your wallpaper? :P
<ali1234> http://ubuntuone.com/6fnkvaIECMLwRGWFT6ZkPy
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> here's a less loud version: http://ubuntuone.com/6fnkvaIECMLwRGWFT6ZkPy
<Azelphur> that's the same lnk
<Azelphur> link*
<ali1234> http://ubuntuone.com/6xDC2MoZ2CRmlh6I6uybPa
<Azelphur> seems to be 404
<ali1234> U1 must have melted again
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> maybe it's still uploading
<ali1234> original image: http://ubuntuone.com/7MhYrxLTXiqz67D7gJwB2L
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> yep, U1 has messed up
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Thunderbird and Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/11/thunderbird-and-ubuntu/
<ali1234> thunderbird suuuuuuuucks
<ali1234> the UI is fugly
<ali1234> it has it's own non-standard notification system
<Azelphur> :p
<ali1234> it's slow like everything mozilla makes
<ali1234> and it can't handle my gmail imap account
<ali1234> nor can it do sensible threading
<Azelphur> thunderbird handles my google imap accounts
<ali1234> i'm subscribed to many high volume mailing lists
<ali1234> i have folders with 10k unread emails in them
<Azelphur> me too, my lists account has 12,609 unread emails.
<Azelphur> ali1234: suggestions for turning the whole thing blueish?
<Azelphur> I'm aiming at this http://blog.brixandersen.dk/wp-content/uploads/conky.png :p
<ali1234> varios
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> go in to levels
<ali1234> select channel red
<ali1234> outputlevel to zero
<ali1234> select channel green
<ali1234> max output level to 0.5
<ali1234> that's the bottom slider
<Monotoko> I may have just witnessed the birth of another universe
<ali1234> it has two ^
<Monotoko> $explosion->very_big_bang($matter, $antimatter);
<Monotoko> genuinly in this code base
<Monotoko> can't figure out what it does D:
<Azelphur> ali1234: fun, ty :)
<ali1234> azelphur: http://newcars-wallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/gtr-carbon-sport-cars_0100.jpg
<ali1234> -> http://imagebin.org/220410
<Azelphur> nice :)
<ali1234> how you do it: open source image, duplicate layer so you have two identical copies. go to the top one, invert it, gaussian blu radius 20, in the lay window select "soft light" blending mode
<ali1234> this brings out the details of the image
<ali1234> then you merge down and do filters->edge->difference of gaussians with 1: 1.0 and 2: 5.0
<Azelphur> I did it slightly differently but got similar results xD
<ali1234> oh i forgot to say duplicate the layers again
<ali1234> ccos then you go back to the original and desaturate it, and subtract the line image you just made from it
<ali1234> and ramp the levels way up on the original so it's almost completely white
<ali1234> then you merge down again and invert, and play with the colour balance until you are happy
<Azelphur> \o/
<ali1234> i just wish gimp had adjustment layers
<Azelphur> hehe
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-12
<Azelphur> sigh, my internet randomly went down :(
<ali1234> hmm webm encoding is quite slow
<diplo>  Morning all
<christel> AlanBell: rar! are we meeting somewhere pre-RAT? :)
<AlanBell> christel: no specific plans yet
<christel> nod
<daubers> Morning
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> not a nice day, i have my mums eldest systers funeral to go to.
<shauno> horribly off-topic, but to translate some troubleshooting steps for a windows user, what'd be their equivalent of 'dig' ?
<diplo> nslookup
<shauno> I can't figure out how to force nslookup to use 53/tcp instead of udp, hence dig
<diplo> http://blog.thesysadmins.co.uk/nslookup-common-usage-examples.html
<diplo> Never tried, will take a lookup :)
<shauno> (battle of the firewalls; one site isn't allowing 53/udp out, the other isn't allowing 53/tcp in; dns usually accepts both, but this combination means neither option passes)
<diplo> set vc ?
<diplo> http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winserverNIS/thread/611b376f-dae4-476d-81a1-195a3a675242/
<diplo> about halfway down the page they talk about it
<shauno> sounds promising (had no idea what a virtual circuit was ;), cheers :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> any idication yet, as to if i were to order a nexus 7 , when shipping would occur?
<brobostigon> good morning bigcalm :)
<popey> brobostigon, google says 27th
<brobostigon> popey: ok, cool, day of my birthday, :)
<bigcalm> Is it the weekend yet?
<brobostigon> it is only thursday.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: damn
<brobostigon> :(
<dwatkins> major O2 outage in the UK, seems to be resolved in some areas now.
<diplo> yeah my friend in Kent wasn't affected at all, but lots around my area were
<diplo> Happily it didn't affect users of GiffGaff
<JamesTait> Good morning all! o/
<BigRedS> I'm after a browser that apes Firefox's behaviour where I can type the name of a bookmark and hit 'enter', but that doesn't ape firefox's pillaging of my ram
<BigRedS> any suggestions?
<BigRedS> it's not chromium or opera
<DJones> Looking at the BBC website, its saying that GiffGaff & Tesco mobile were affected, probably the same bloke that did an update at RBS/Nat West and broke their systems changed jobs to work at O2
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Well DJones, loads of people on O2 around here who were affected but my giffgaff didn't stop all day so not sure what the issue was
<DJones> diplo: Did you see the O2 suggestion on how to get your phone working for calls? Switch your 3G service off
<directhex> yeah, o2 3g is still down. 2g supposedly fixed
<diplo> My 3g has been on the whole time
<diplo> Odd
<oimon> i have emergency calls only on my giffgaff phone atm
<oimon> data is working
<oimon> BigRedS, maybe synapse will due the bookmark thing for you, p.s. firefox is better on ram lately
<oimon> my giffgaff was ok yesterday strangely
<BigRedS> yeah, I've just downloaded firefox straight from mozilla
<BigRedS> not liking the idea of TB getting even less dev time though. It's already the only not-atrocious free mail client...
<oimon> what features are required? exchange support would be nice
<oimon> proper activesync support
<BigRedS> IMAP support and not needing 2G of RAM
<BigRedS> The whole point of IMAP is that the server does all the work; thunderbird shouldn't feel the need to download 200,000 mail headers, just the last 20
<BigRedS> y'know, like the spec says...
<oimon> mine seems to work ok
<oimon> thats cos i disabled offline storage
<oimon> also have 250MB RAM usage for a quillion emails
 * BigRedS hunts down that checkbox and unticks it
<BigRedS> maybe that'll fix that
<oimon> inbox -right mouse, properties, synchroniszaTION
<oimon> unselect offline use
<davmor2> morning all
<BigRedS> yeah, I just did that
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<oimon> there is also a global setting but i don't trust it
<davmor2> morning bigcalm thanks for the text dude :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: hope you're ok man
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yeah nackered it's been a long week and there are 2 days left :)
 * bigcalm gives these 2 days an evil stare
<bigcalm> So tired, want it to be the weekend
<bigcalm> Though that does mean a long drive down to Farnham
<daubers> Urgh, get back to the UK on Tuesday afternoon, get sent to London on Friday :(
<czajkowski> daubers: loads of time to recover :)
<AlanBell> should the Ubuntu One music store work in Quantal?
<bigcalm> U1 was broken yesterday, maybe it still is
<diplo> They said it was fixed on twitter late afternoon i though
<diplo> +t
<AlanBell> I just get "Connecting you to the Ubuntu One Music Store..." in rhythmbox
<AlanBell> I haven't clicked that for about 2 years so it might not be a recent breakage
<gord> AlanBell: works fine for me in P
<AlanBell> ok
<directhex> heh. WD are releasing a new range of drives, "red", due to the previous "green" series being completely unusable in always-on workloads like NAS
<AlanBell> I have a 3TB WD green drive specifically for a mostly-off workload
<AlanBell> my root drive is a 16GB SD card and that is a mounted storage area
<BigRedS> directhex: isn't that what black were for?
<BigRedS> were/are
<dogmatic69> handy terminal is handy
<paul2978> #blenderQA
<paul2978> :( im trying to connect to freenode beldnerQA does anyone know how i connect to it?
<paul2978> blender
<dwatkins>  /join #blenderQA
<AlanBell> paul2978: type /join #blenderQA
<dwatkins> that without the space at the beginning, paul2978
<paul2978> thanks Alanbell & dawtkins how to i rejoin this chat afterwards?
<dogmatic69> paul2978: no point, its empty
<paul2978> lol ok
<dwatkins> paul2978: you should remain here in this tab/window
<dogmatic69> paul2978: your irc client should have tabs etc
<dogmatic69> one per channel
<paul2978> oh ok
<dogmatic69> what you using?
<dwatkins> yeah, xchat has tabs if you've enabled the reevant option
<paul2978> xchat-GNOME
<dogmatic69> ye, it has tabs
<dogmatic69> I think at the top by default
<paul2978> Thanks :)
<AlanBell> #blender is the main channel with 227 people in it
<dwatkins> last time I used xchat the tabs were at the side, but it may have changed since then
<paul2978> yeah at the side
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: what you using?
<paul2978> join #blender
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: irssi/screen
<dogmatic69> paul2978: with a / :)
<BigRedS> I have a 1st gen eepc to stick a linux on, anyone got any reccomendations?
<BigRedS> it's for someone who doesn't know linux, but I reckon they'll be okay in openbox or somesuch and wont be looking to install things, just browse the net really
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I've always wondered if crunchbang might work well on an eeepc
<BigRedS> bigcalm: ooh, that'd be worth a look
<BigRedS> a prettier openbox than I'd be arsed to do, too :)
<bigcalm> Someday I'll get around to trying it on my eeepc 1000
<diplo> I really like crunchbang, I ran it on my ex father in laws old pc
<diplo> He was stupid to be plain and fair and he used it
<diplo> So can't be that bad
<diplo> :)
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> and it's debian based so I'll understand it, too
<BigRedS> Heh, it's just booted into UNR 10.10
<BigRedS> forgot I did that
<directhex> i liked UNR
<directhex> netbook-launcher was great
<BigRedS> it's a bit laggy on this...
<davmor2> BigRedS: have you tried Lubuntu?
<BigRedS> yeah, the LXDE ubuntu
<BigRedS> forgot about that, probably rouglu equivalent to crunchbang
<livingdaylight> GM
<bigcalm> My apologies for top-posting on the mailing list. In my defence, the only other reply in the thread also top-posted. So I was following the trend
<bigcalm> livingdaylight: GA
<livingdaylight> bigcalm, hia
<shauno> bigcalm: no need to worry about it now.  ninjas have aleady been dispatched ;)
<livingdaylight> Update: re: yesterdays pc issue on newly-built pc: I changed wireless keyboard and mouse and everythings seems fine now!
<BigRedS> bigcalm: just claim you were winding cz<tab> up and it's all good :)
<livingdaylight> Only reason I bought parts to build a new pc was because I thought my pc was DEDED. When I began to experience similar issues on brand new pc I began to wonder. All I needed all along was a new keyboard, instead  I have a new Â£300 computer - LOL
<BigRedS> haha, I did that once when the problem was the power lead
<livingdaylight> so, funny...
<livingdaylight> never thought that the keyboard could cause the pc to get sluggish and freeze
<livingdaylight> I just changed batteries every once in a while
<BigRedS> Now you mention it, I have heard of that before
<BigRedS> with a PS/2 one
<BigRedS> oh! I guess this is USB
<livingdaylight> ok, yes, this was a usb one.
<livingdaylight> Â£300 lesson learnt
<daubers> So whats the "in" way of building websites these days? DJango & jQuery?
<gord> notepad.exe
<bigcalm> edlin
<gord> but i think node.js is the new fad
<livingdaylight> is open java - icetea the new way ? seems the sun-java option is no longer
<daubers> node.js? What does that do
<livingdaylight> appears that there are oracle-java installation guides online. What is the consensus of oracle-java vs icetea?
<daubers> avoid both?
<AlanBell> daubers: node.js is server side javascript and it is kinda good for real time comet stuff
<AlanBell> etherpad-lite uses it
<daubers> ah, ok
<daubers> So does that require a http server too (reading the website it doesn't look it)?
<AlanBell> no, it does the socket handling stuff
<gord> no, which is why i stay the hell away from it ;)
<BigRedS> I'd be very scared at the idea of havng nothing inbetween node.js and the internet
<daubers> Hmmm.... I'll add it to the list of stuff I should look into
<daubers> BigRedS: YOU ARE THE INTERWEBS!
<AlanBell> if you want raw access to do something interesting it is good
<AlanBell> and it is more like twisted than multithreaded hardness
<AlanBell> but if you just want to build a website then use Joomla/wordpress/mediawiki/drupal/something where someone else does the dull parts
<daubers> I got angry at WP and drupal recently. Was going to bung something together with Django and jQuery, but wondered what had changed in the last couple of years in the ever changing fad like world of web based frameworks
<davmor2> daubers: django has a couple of things going for it, it's python and web so you get to improve both :)
<daubers> davmor2: That and I already know it!
<AlanBell> django is OK, but you have to do a lot yourself really
<bigcalm> I really want to start learning python
<AlanBell> django doesn't abstract the database very well, you have to do all kinds of mucking about with something called south if you want to add a field to an object because it doesn't sort out the tables for you
<davmor2> bigcalm: I can recommend a course :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: great :)
<daubers> AlanBell: huh? I've never hit that problem
<daubers> AlanBell: Is this if you change a model definition it sometimes doesn't update the DB structure correctly?
<AlanBell> maybe it is more of a problem on some of the Ubuntu things like the loco directory and summit
<AlanBell> yeah, add or change a field to a model and you are into a world of schema migrations and pain
<daubers> Ah! I've never really had that problem. Most things I build remain relativley static schema wise once developed. And by tracking version numbers I generally just write a schema_update.py that checks the versions and does the updates for me
<AlanBell> I understand it isn't a big deal, I just spent about 15 years working on schemaless nosql databases and it was a bit of a shock to the system
<BigRedS> Hm. It's a bit late to report bugs in Maverick's UNR isn't it?
<bigcalm> o>O
<bigcalm> LUNCH!
<BigRedS> no, o<O
<bigcalm> Greedy
<BigRedS> haha
<bigcalm> Eating something bigger than your head
<AlanBell> well gimp 2.8 is annoying :(
<AlanBell> makes it really awkward to edit and save a .png file
<directhex> AlanBell, the way "save" only supports xcf files, and you gotta use export?
<directhex> dunno whose idea that was
<AlanBell> directhex: yeah there is an overwrite option or export back to the file it came from option (depending on how you open it that moves)
<directhex> AlanBell, still a horrible UI regression
<AlanBell> but what you want to do is double click a .png, change it, save&quit
<AlanBell> without being asked to care about file formats
<directhex> i guess the aim is to force-feed people xcf files, to promote gimp as its own thing, not just "the thing that edits everyone else's formats"
<AlanBell> maybe, .xcf is a good layered format, it is kind of the source code to the .png object code
<AlanBell> but you can't use .xcf in an <img> tag (I assume)
<directhex> of course not. xcf is just GIMP's editing format
<directhex> it's useless for presentation, the same way you wouldn't ship a .psd for presentation either
<BigRedS> ah yeah, that irked me the other day
 * czajkowski face palms at liam proven description of nixie pixel
 * christel tickles czajkowski 
<christel> what are your saturday plans? will you head straight to RAT or should we all meet for Pints first?
<czajkowski> christel: unsure as of now as still unwell.
<czajkowski> may have picked up bug in the house
<christel> oh no :(
<davmor2> czajkowski: "PROD!!!!"*4
 * czajkowski peers at davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: what that's one prod for 4 days :P
<davmor2> czajkowski: Hello, have a hug
<dogmatic69> I need to update imagemagic on 10.10 to the same version as 12.04. Can I just use the 12.04 ppa?
<Laney> maybe, maybe not
<dogmatic69> :/
<Laney> it would be better to rebuild that version on 10.10
<dogmatic69> broken -> ImageMagick 6.5.7-8  working -> Version: ImageMagick 6.6.0-4
<dogmatic69> Laney: like download the src?
<Laney> backportpackage -s precise -d maverick -u ppa:dogmatic69/ppa imagemagick
<Laney> or something
<dogmatic69> just found a 10.10 build of 6.6 .deb
<dogmatic69> and its 32bit
<AlanBell> 10.10 is close to end of support
 * czajkowski headdesks
<dogmatic69> ye, I was thinking to just update to 12
 * AlanBell wonders why czajkowski is abusing the desk
<czajkowski> AlanBell: the list
<AlanBell> ah
<dogmatic69> first time doing a major update :S
<dogmatic69> running the update now, been asked 4 times to change the mysql pw
<davmor2> AlanBell: If I were czajkowski I'd of bought a new desk I did like rather than just trying to demolish the one I had
 * bigcalm returns
<davmor2> bigcalm: you were gone?
<bigcalm> davmor2: I know it's hard to tell with me
<davmor2> bigcalm: :D
<daubers> czajkowski: I've often wondered what would happen if methods of thinking in the media "world" collided with the OSS "world". I think Liam had a point... it just wasn't very well made. I'm not sure how you could raise that point without appearing sexist though. The worlds are a mighty complicated place
<daubers> (That doesn't demean the work she had done bringing people to Ubuntu at all, which has been an immense addition to the general corpus of work in that area)
<czajkowski> daubers: indeed, she has done good work, you can see that by the amount of people tuning in
<czajkowski> but really lowering the comments to her body features to me, is just wrong and I'll call him on it
<daubers> czajkowski: Absolutley. It's just a complex area to talk about in the OSS world. If this was a "media" world those comments would be hidden away in terms such as "target audience" and "appealing to a demographic". I think he just hadn't necessarily the correct method of approaching the subject. So call him on it, but maybe a little help with language would be good?
<christel> what are you reading?
<czajkowski> christel: ubuntu-uk ml
<czajkowski> I did I pointed out you can complement her on her geekyness or smartness
<czajkowski> christel: Gaming on Ubuntu thread
<christel> i shall go Read
<bigcalm> Need me some Doctrine help. How would I make this work? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1088052/
<BigRedS> Anyone know if there's a Perlbrew equivalent in Ruby? For creating largely self-contained install, with it's own binary and assorted gems?
<BigRedS> ah! RVM apparently!
<daubers> czajkowski: When you're talking about video and media as a whole then sometimes then appearance can be important to certain demographics. I'm not saying that's "right", just that it is a thing that exists. (and I've being reading too many books/magazines/articles on production workflows/decisions in TV and film)
<daubers> It's also (adding complications) a very emotive subject that a lot of people try and avoid.
<daubers> I also hasten to add that the terminology I've used above I've tried to stay gender neutral with, because it works both ways.
<bigcalm> BigRedS: from another channel on another server: rvm or rbenv
<BigRedS> bigcalm: aha, I'll have a look at rbenv too, ta!
<diplo> davmor2: Just reaad your mail, how much was the course if you don;t mind me asking
<davmor2> diplo: with vat Â£780
<diplo> I'd love to put myself on a course, I knew it would be in that range but I just can;t afford to put myself through
 * diplo slugs on 
<diplo> Cheers anyhoo
<davmor2> diplo: no worries dude
<diplo> I guess I was hoping you were going to say Â£200 :D
<diplo> I know the windows/aix courses I've been on in the past have been 1-2k
<christel> having perused her website i can sort of see where liam comes from :)
<diplo> heh, I've followed Nixie for years, she definitly does hang out a bit in shots but I find her knowledgable enough and enjoy her shows
<diplo> She's certainly not the worst out there, I watch some ones about gaming/nerdy stuff hosted by a few girls and I can assure you they are sometimes less clothed and it's not the reason I watch it.
<diplo> I just enjoy the show
<diplo> Although attractive ladies do help :D
<christel> haha
<christel> i don't have a problem with it, lets face it, sex sells -- but i can understand that some people don't approve
<diplo> She works for Revision3 I guess now
<daubers> yeah, people are complicated. It's certainly become a very emotive topic in the OSS sphere
<diplo> But worked for Logitech for a while ( won a competition i think actually )
<christel> and from perusing his livejournal bio i can sort of see how her exceptionally liberal approach to life clashes a tad with his rather traditional view of himself :)
 * diplo takes everyone as they come
<diplo> Except my ex-wife, I try to ignore her as much as possible :D
<christel> also, i wouldn't say she's particularly busty! :o
<christel> haha
<christel> see, i just dislike people equally ;)
<daubers> I like people individually, I have a hard time dealing with groups of people
<diplo> I think a lot of people in the IT/Tech field do daubers ( generilisation i know )
<davmor2> christel: Sex sells, hmmm selling sex I wonder if we can have them all arrested for prostitution?
<diplo> But I'm the same, and most techy/IT people I know are similar
<diplo> It's why I was in two minds about Alans and left myself as a maybe
<daubers> Heh, I can't commit to anything at the moment because the roof on the conservatory has a whole in it and if it's a sunny day I need to take the whole thing down and put it up properly
 * bigcalm hugs christel
<christel> now -- thingiewotsit -- liam said "
<christel> now -- thingiewotsit -- liam said "[b] I have no actual evidence that she is geeky; I think it may just
<christel> be a calculated move to appear so in order to win fans; I see no sign
<christel> of real understanding of what she's discussing in what I've seen."
<christel> to me that sounds like a Good Thing(tm) -- if we've reached a point where ubuntu is being used and advocated by "non-geeky" people.. then that is a major achievement for FOSS in general
<davmor2> czajkowski: you see the things you start
<czajkowski> listen into mrevell http://www.brighttalk.com/webcast/6793/49175  on maas
<mrevell> yay!
<daubers> christel: Indeed! But it also has the "Linux Format Conundrum" in it. In that people who are very technical lost interest fast :) And that might be Liams point
<christel> daubers: but we don't really need them to be interested, they most likely are interested already and have moved well beyond the point at which she advocates the use of the distro
<diplo> daubers: I'm not the only one that is thinking about unsubscribing then ?
<daubers> diplo: I did when i moved
<daubers> christel: I agree. I'd have thought Liam is outside of her target audience
<diplo> I keep thinking it's only Â£13 a quarter and what else would I read on the bog :)
<daubers> diplo: Heh, I looked at it as I could get a more interesting (to me) magazine for that money
<diplo> Share away if you have suggestions
<daubers> diplo: I was considering magazines outside the Linux sphere... so might not be interesting to others! (Among them Gardeners World and White Dwarf)
<diplo> not heard of white dward
<diplo> dwarf*
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Akademy BoFs - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4588
<diplo> Debated about subscribing to some comics and see how I get on with them, used to love them as a kid and teaching my boys to read at the mo
<diplo> Wonder if it would help them to enjoy it more.
<daubers> diplo: White Dwarf is Games Workshop's (Warhammer) magazine
<diplo> ah
<diplo> Two extremes there :)
<daubers> heh :) I did consider "Make" magazine but I picked up a copy from WHSmiths and wasn't really taken
<diplo> I like magazines as I can pick them up and put them down
<bigcalm> Don't you hate it when you can't remember the name of the hotel you're booked into for the weekend?
<bigcalm> Makes finding the booking confirmation email a little tricky
<bigcalm> Farnham folk: which hotel have I booked into? :D
<AlanBell> is it the one with the love swings?
<diplo> :D
<popey> http://www.hoteldevie.com/leisure/faqs.html#swingers-hotel-myth
<AlanBell> hotel de vie
<popey> hello sebsebseb
 * bigcalm tuts
<bigcalm> Yes, it's that hotel
<zleap> I am working on a flyer thing now for developers,  so when i get a reply on the list I can add more useful info so people can get started
<bigcalm> No, the swings was not a deciding factor :P
<AlanBell> you will have to tell us all about it
<AlanBell> well, not *all* about it
 * bigcalm tuts
<popey> zleap, do developers tend to need flyers?
<daubers> Speaking of swings.... I've got a big set of swings in the garden that I need to get rid of. Anyone who wants them just needs to pring their own shovel
<daubers> s/pring/bring
<sebsebseb> hi popey and AlanBell
<popey> http://maps.skobbler.de/ nice UI on openstreetmap data!
<zleap> not sure,   but we are trying to reach out to people
<sebsebseb> what's OGGCamp like, was thinking about maybe going this year.
<zleap> may inspire people who want to get in to programming and give them a starting point
<popey> sebsebseb, awesome
<daubers> sebsebseb: better than popey said
<bigcalm> Found my booking confirmation, thank you :D
<sebsebseb> How general is it, I mean LInux distrowise?
<sebsebseb> well went to FOSDEM 2012 this year :)
<sebsebseb> ,but not been to any UK LInux opensource/freesoftware type events yet
<sebsebseb> oh and started going to my LUG this year :)
<popey> its not linux specific
<popey> and certainly not ubuntu specific
<popey> sebsebseb, whereabouts in the UK are you based? are you near liverpool?
<sebsebseb> ,but since I have moved more away from Ubuntu, to contribute to another distro doing community stuff, I was wondering how general OGGCamp was.  also yeah I Have read that, it's not just Linux, it's a mixture of stuff
<sebsebseb> popey: no not quite, near Bristol
<popey> ahh
<sebsebseb> however it seems two people from my LUG are going for example
<popey> I'm going :)
<sebsebseb> yeah of course you are, but your organising it as well, so no wonder
<sebsebseb> :d
<popey> :D
<diplo> What date is it popey ?
<diplo> I'd like to visit a friend in Macclesfield, might combine the weekend
<sebsebseb> popey: I assume like other events, can give out Live CD's for distros and such to people :d  if want to
<diplo> no worries, just looked online
<diplo> :P
<daubers> sebsebseb: Some people from the Thames Valley Rep Rap User Group are going too
 * sebsebseb might volunteer for a talk at OGGCam pI am not joking,  did some public speaking earlier this year, only short Lightning Talks though
<sebsebseb> that was fun :)
<sebsebseb> it's the weekend, after getting back from nearly two weeks in Sweden earlier in the week.  oh and probably whilst there won't have any or little Internet access as well.  So could be nice to go to a opensource type event on the weekend when back :d.
<sebsebseb> daubers: Auguat 18th and 19th
<daubers> irk... that's only a month away.... should really start sorting out some video gear
<daubers> (still waiting to know if it's really wanted or not mind.....)
<sebsebseb> yeah and I should get travel and hotel sorted out, if going :d
<sebsebseb> daubers: uh if I was doing a talk there, I would want it videod :d
<sebsebseb> that's something else actually, when I looked on Youtube for OGGcamp not that many videos came up
<daubers> sebsebseb: I've offered the gear (except a couple of cameras I need...) but haven't had a confirmed yes/no yet!
<sebsebseb> daubers: so you have been to OGGCamp before it seems, what can you tell me about it :d
<daubers> sebsebseb: It's awesome fun. There's normally a talk for everyone (if not you should give a talk) and normally some interesting exhibits. The RepRap there last year was quite cool
<sebsebseb> daubers: and you  come back with loads of freebies and such like other events?
<sebsebseb> :d
<daubers> sebsebseb: Umm...... I've normally been helping out but I think that depends on the sponsors this year
<daubers> sebsebseb: You come away knowing more awesome people than when you started :)
<sebsebseb> yeah I guess so
<daubers> That's why I started going anyway
<sebsebseb> and I was looking at photos from a previous one
<daubers> Also why I offered to help. Since I'd not met many OSS people at the time, it was an easy way to meet new peoples
<sebsebseb> it's outside?  or when the weather is right?
<daubers> sebsebseb: Mostly inside
<sebsebseb> except for talks I mean
<daubers> sebsebseb: http://blip.tv/show/772977 <- videos
<sebsebseb> daubers: yeah that looks  better than what came up on Youtube when searching for OGGCamp
<daubers> sebsebseb: Those where made thanks to AlanBell providing some stuff and my offices bandwidth being eaten :)
<daubers> Apparently bandwidth isn't an issue this yea
<daubers> r
<sebsebseb> daubers: anyway so I can go there and try and gain some interest in the distro I contribute to now for example I guess :d 100%  community distro, non profit
<sebsebseb> newish still
<daubers> sebsebseb: Absolutley. See if people are interested in going to your talk, or just take some LiveCD's and get them on a table somewhere :)
<daubers> sebsebseb: Which distro?
<sebsebseb> heh thought I would get asked that
<sebsebseb> Mageia
<daubers> the mandriva replacement?
<christel> bigcalm: when do you guys arrive? :)
<sebsebseb> daubers: the Mandriva fork yeah
<bigcalm> christel: lunchish, I hope
<daubers> I cut my teeth on mandriva many many moons ago
<sebsebseb> founded by ex Mandriva employee's and volunteer contributors
<christel> cool!
<christel> we should Pub Pre-RAT i reckon
<christel> then all go to alton together from farnham
 * christel nods
<daubers> sebsebseb: Plan a talk! See if you can get it voted up to be done :)
<sebsebseb> daubers: yeah might do that for this distro :)
<bigcalm> christel: it's 3+ hours without stopping. So I hope we set off early and have a relaxing drive :)
<christel> *nod*
<bigcalm> christel: I was hoping that we could all go on the train together
<christel> yay
<bigcalm> Choo choo
<AlanBell> choo choo
<christel> :D
<christel> AlanBell: will Lord join us on saturday?
<AlanBell> go easy on the pre-RAT beers though
<AlanBell> christel: yes he will
<christel> mmm maybe we could food before setting off? burgers at the mulburry or something?
<AlanBell> oh those are epic
 * christel nods
<bigcalm> I want to save the drinking for the train
<christel> i <3 their burgers (they make me long for the days i could eat a whole one!)
 * daubers considers finishing work for the day and going home to make pies
<AlanBell> I failed to complete a firehouse burger with popey and theopensourcerer a few weeks ago
<christel> and they are superclose to the station
<christel> haha
<bigcalm> The tickets say that they will bar people who are under the influence. Which is quite amusing :)
<AlanBell> that was scorchio
<AlanBell> don't forget the free pint voucher part of the ticket
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> I hope they are valid for other drinks as well. Hayley isn't one for ale sadly
<sebsebseb> daubers: yeah I read that some scheduled talks such as Stephen Fry via technology this year,  and whilst that's going on or whatever unscheduled voted in talks
<AlanBell> bigcalm: there are other drinks (probably a cider and a small amount of wine/other stuff)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: indeed, there are other drinks. It's whether or not the free drink voucher is valid for those :)
<AlanBell> I have in mysql a view, which is sluggish to calculate. Is there an easy way to say "cache this and keep it for 24hours, I don't care if it goes out of date"
<AlanBell> bigcalm: err, so you get two free pints ;)
<AlanBell> this is a solveable problem
<bigcalm> AlanBell: yes, there is that option
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: is there a way to optimise your query?
<dogmatic69> anyone know offhand that command to get dir size?
<bigcalm> du -chs ./
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: ta
<bigcalm> Welcome :)
<dogmatic69> need to alias that one
<dogmatic69> alias wtfhappenedtomyhdd
<bigcalm> Ha
<AlanBell> bigcalm: dunno really, basically I have customers, each customer has a bunch of recurring orders, one of which might be active
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: so I want to ask this same question to you as well :d.  What's OGGCamp like? (altough I think I read some where that you have helped organise it in the past as well, but anyway)
<AlanBell> it wants to display a list of customers with an active/inactive column which signifies whether they have one or more active orders
<AlanBell> sebsebseb: oggcamp is fun, I helped on the video side of things at the last one which was close to my house. Liverpool is not close to my house.
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: yeah Liverpool isn't close to my house either, but can travel
<AlanBell> bigcalm: so there is this monster query view that gets joined to the customers table for display (well actually it is a 5 way join /o\)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: that sounds so delightful!
<AlanBell> and the query view seems to be the slow thing in the join, it makes sense that it is slow
<bigcalm> Any chance of throwing it into a paste bin?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1088255/
<AlanBell> dunno if I should add a status field to the customer and set it in the overnight job
<AlanBell> which is denormalisation and would be potentially slightly wrong, but might make things faster
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: what is using the sql data?
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: php web application called vtiger
<dogmatic69> if you were using php / apc you could just apc_store() with a date, then check the cache first
<dogmatic69> same for writing to disk, just more code needed
<dogmatic69> not sure if mysql will do it direct somehow.
<AlanBell> interesting, I thought that was just for opcodes
<AlanBell> I was thinking of memcached as a possible thing to use in places too
<dogmatic69> nope, it does that mainly. but you can stick anything in it like memcache etc.
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I don't see what would be slow about that query unless you have _a lot_ of data and no indices
<dogmatic69> I use apc normally. no need for distributed cache yet
<dogmatic69> ye, its not overly complex sql. Maybe you could run an explain for us?
<dogmatic69> I think 'EXPLAIN view_name' works
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: You dont seem to have any conditions in that find so it would pull out how ever many records there are
<AlanBell> I don't think I am using explain correctly
<AlanBell> just tells me what columns are in the result
<popey> <AlanBell> I failed to complete a firehouse burger with popey and theopensourcerer a few weeks ago
<popey> that was super tasty
<popey> and a tiny bit spicy :D
<AlanBell> it was rather good
 * AlanBell reads up about explain
<popey> hey AlanBell fancy contributing to compiz? :)
 * popey is looking for a willing volunteer / victim
<AlanBell> maybe
<AlanBell> I have a contribution in my todo list anyway
<popey> ah ok
<popey> i might take a look myself :s
<AlanBell> what area is this in then?
<AlanBell> I need to fix some indentation and style issues on the text tracking zoom thing
<AlanBell> and get it building so I can actually test it
<davmor2> bigcalm: this might be of interest to you being as you hate yourself ;) IntelliJ IDEA Community Edition
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> davmor2: is it only for Java?
<davmor2> bigcalm: ah so netbeans is multilanuage then?
<bigcalm> Yes
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh well you will hate it too then :D
<bigcalm> http://netbeans.org/downloads/index.html
<davmor2> bigcalm: see how I thought of you though :)
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1088292/ is the query that the view gets used in
<bigcalm> I use it only for PHP, which makes it a lot lighter
<bigcalm> davmor2: so kind :D
<brobostigon> there is version of safari for windows isnt there? otherwise i think i have found a bug in google anaytics.
<bigcalm> There is
<brobostigon> ok, good, phew.
<bigcalm> And you can run it on linux via wine
<brobostigon> bigcalm: but wouldnt it then report it still as running in windows? in analytics.
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> Probably
<bigcalm> It's whatever the user agent says it is
<bigcalm> So the windows version running in wine will still have the windows user agent version
<brobostigon> because the interesting thing is, it says people have used safari to visit my site, however mac os x nor ios shows in the OS vistor usage.
<bigcalm> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB) AppleWebKit/533.16 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0 Safari/533.16
<brobostigon> ah.
<bigcalm> That's what it says for my copy running in wine
<brobostigon> make sense now. it must be people unning it either in windows, or under wine.
<bigcalm> Chances of people bothering to run safari in wine are slim
<bigcalm> I do it because I'm a web dev and have to
<bigcalm> It's that or use windows
<brobostigon> ah.
<bigcalm> I would treat them as edge cases
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> bigcalm: thank you for your insight.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: most welcome
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> brobostigon, thats an ipad
<popey> Version/5.0 Safari/533.16 gives that away
<gord> *cough* steam sales started
<gord> i know there is no steam on ubuntu... but steam sales started
<popey> oh, windows.. odd
<brobostigon> popey: interesting, yes. but still doesnt fit.
<popey> probably lies then :)
<popey> people fake their user agent shocker
<brobostigon> popey: good point, yes.
<popey> gord, my mate uses steam on ubuntu for most of his gaming
<gord> yeah but wine :(
<popey> some of the applications in the developer contest look interesting
<shauno> a bit late, but the ipad says it's an ipad in the user-agent.  it doesn't claim to be XP
<bigcalm> popey: :(
<popey> well indeed
<bigcalm> But good for them :)
<daubers> Evening
<popey> yo!
<bigcalm> Duck!
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1088384/ so what does the so row mean? that appears to be possibly the problem, but I don't understand what bit of the query it comes from?
<AlanBell> there is no table called "so" in the database
<AlanBell> and it isn't anywhere in the query
<livingdaylight> popey / AlanBell : Yo!
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: I would say this is your problem
<dogmatic69> 1 | SIMPLE      | so                    | ALL    | NULL                          | NULL    | NULL    | NULL                                         | 10157 |
<dogmatic69> no index and 10k rows
<AlanBell>  yeah, but what is it?
<AlanBell> so isn't a table in the database
<dogmatic69> ye, strange
<dogmatic69> you had so in your VIEW
<dogmatic69> Ah I see.. vtiger_fo_view_account_info.stats
<dogmatic69> That is the view which does the so.foo stuff
<dogmatic69> add an index for two fields something like alter table add index account_info (accountid, sostatus) on the vtiger_salesorder table
<dogmatic69> create index account_info ON vtiger_salesorder(accountid, sostatu);
<dogmatic69> that should work
<daubers> popey, AlanBell since you're around (this isn't an Ubuntu question) I'm interested in what you guys would want from a hackspace (for context, I'm looking into ways of invigorating the Reading Hackspace community more).
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: aaah, an alias in the view definition, now it makes sense
 * AlanBell declares dogmatic69 to be full of win and is hereby owed a beer (or alternative beverage)
<dogmatic69> \o/
<AlanBell> daubers: sure, I had quite a few thoughts about hackspaces, I think to ramp up the numbers you need to appeal to a wider audience
<AlanBell> daubers: which means going for more intro level stuff, and having a more attractive and appealing place than is strictly neccessary
<daubers> AlanBell: That's a given, but I don't know what the rest of that audiance wants.... hence the questions :)
<AlanBell> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/sh-hackspace/UR8Pua57HsE here is my general thoughts
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: so the index worked for you?
<AlanBell> and here is me doing a mini ragequit https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/sh-hackspace/IzO8k4VhFBg
<daubers> AlanBell: I'm not convinced on the "office" type thing tbh.... I think you can make any spae appealing
<daubers> AlanBell: I'd read the rage quit :)
<AlanBell> office space stuff was chucked in to get the utilisation of the space up really
<daubers> Oh, that I understood, I meant more as in the look and feel of a space
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: yeah, it works on the explain, doesnt appear to make the UI much faster, but I need to do some real testing on that
<ali1234> soldering isn't clean. not when i do it anyway
<ali1234> unless you like burnt desks, flux, and smoke
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: you can paste a new explain if you like
<AlanBell> daubers: yeah, look and feel can be fixed in the space, it also has to be in a not-too-scary location
<ali1234> oh and lead
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1088452/
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: ^^
<AlanBell> ali1234: I love burned desks, flux and smoke
<daubers> AlanBell: Hmm.... I have a half formed plan... but need more people input
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: cool, the top one is still suspect. one second
<ali1234> no you don;t
<ali1234> that's a common fallacy
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: you do where vtiger_account.accountid > 0. why would the accountid be <= 0
<AlanBell> daubers: another thing I would do is value the kit, one of my objections to the hackspace was that for Â£360/year I could get access to an empty shed (they refused to budget for kit), or I could go to B&Q and load up the car with toys from the powertools aisle
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: good question, it wouldn't ever be
<dogmatic69> I think you are forcing a where and confusing mysql
<dogmatic69> it has to do a whole table scan to find everything anyway
<daubers> AlanBell: Someone else said that... and I feel it's putting the emphasis in the wrong place. I might be wrong on that... but I'll add the idea to the list
<ali1234> AlanBell: i don't see your point
<ali1234> tools are useless if you have nowhere to use them
<ali1234> it's called hackerspace not hackertoolsrental
<AlanBell> this is true, I use mine in the garden
<AlanBell> I get the point about the space being more than the tools
<ali1234> also i would love to know how you rent a shed for Â£360/year, one that has electricity...
<AlanBell> but if I was paying Â£30/month for membership of the space I wouldn't have much disposable income for materials to actually make anything
<ali1234> Â£30/month? that'sa bit steep
<AlanBell> I might not be the target demographic at all
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, thats what I thought too
<ali1234> should be a pay as you go model
<AlanBell> that doesn't work
<AlanBell> it needs to be like gym membership model
<ali1234> it doesn't work if you are trying to run it as a business
<AlanBell> people pay up every month and never turn up, they just get to tell their significant other that they did as they were asked and joined a gym
<ali1234> y'know
<AlanBell> these members subsidise the ones who go every day
<ali1234> you should look into how musicians do it
<ali1234> practice rooms
<ali1234> every band knows where the local practice room is
<ali1234> this is usually ina disused factory
<ali1234> and shared with all the other local bands
<ali1234> the same locations would be ideal for hackspaces
<AlanBell> yup, this bunch wanted to get a commercial unit, which is fine, but when they had a plan that resulted in a Â£3.5k deficit and still figured it was fine to proceed I bailed out
<AlanBell> trading while insolvent is a bit naughty
<daubers> AlanBell: We've found it helps to be more flexible than that.... we have some "pay as you go members" and some people who just turn up on the open hack evenings (no charge for those)
<ali1234> the problem with your office space idea is anything i can do in an office i can sit and home and do too
<AlanBell> yeah, I have screaming kids, so I rent a nice office
<AlanBell> but it isn't about the office space, it is about utilisation
<AlanBell> what you can't do is have the space idle
<daubers> AlanBell: Reading is idle quite frequently
<daubers> there are other interest groups who pay to use the space though (once or twice a week)
<AlanBell> and Ryan is no doubt feeling the pain of that a bit
<ali1234> well, you can
<daubers> Not as much as you'd think...
<daubers> We're nearly at break
<AlanBell> cool
<daubers> eveneven (2 membersihips I think)
<daubers> and the space is still idle
<daubers> some days anyway
<ali1234> this is why you contact musician
<ali1234> they don't care about noise and they don't care about dirty practice rooms
<AlanBell> that would be a great thing to do with a space to boost utilisation
<ali1234> also they are in thhe same boat
<ali1234> they use a room for a couple of hours a day
<ali1234> or 1 day a week
<ali1234> really they use he exact same model as a hackerspace to run these places, except they been doing it for a lot longer
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1088483/ that is odd, it returns more rows when I take the accountid>0 bit out
<daubers> AlanBell: A different question, do you know anyone who is a teacher who might be willing to answer some questions for beer?
<AlanBell> daubers: yeah, I have a heap of teachers on twitter
<daubers> s/beer/some help with something
<AlanBell> in fact twitter is the best place to talk to teachers
<daubers> AlanBell: I'm interested in how we as a hackspace can help them
<AlanBell> interesting question, people were saying that students might be target members and they were all concerned about public transport access
<ali1234> public transport is a must
<AlanBell> I felt that was irrelevant as students are not going to pay Â£30/month for it, and have access to better facilities already
<ali1234> lolno
<ali1234> they won't pay Â£30 of course. but they probably don't have better access unless they are university students
<AlanBell> depending on what they are doing, I certainly had better access at secondary school, but not uni
<AlanBell> we had an awesome metalwork room
<ali1234> my secondary school had amazing equipment
 * AlanBell wanted to be a blacksmith
<ali1234> however we were never allowed to use it
<AlanBell> still do really
<ali1234> because someone had to be there to supervise at all times
<ali1234> and because you got two hours a week in that lesson, 75% of which was theory
<AlanBell> I think we had a pretty cool teacher, did after school stuff every day and didn't like teaching theory
<AlanBell> wanted us to have fun with hot metal
<ali1234> the other 25% was spent learning how to use each piece of equipment. so it was like "this week, how to bend plastic on the strip bender" - everyone takes turns bending a piece of plastic
<ali1234> if you actually wanted to make something, no chance
<daubers> AlanBell: They won't pay... but their parents might pay on a different scale
<daubers> AlanBell: Rdg has a member who is a blacksmith
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> so we had one person say on the list they couldn't commit to a monthly membership but wanted to pop along a few times a month on a daily Â£5 pay as you go fee, as long as they could do about 6 hours of hacking
<AlanBell> they thought this sounded perfectly reasonable, as did everyone else I think
<ali1234> i'd want to do something like that
<AlanBell> now we were talking about a 500sqft hackspace, maybe room for 5 people to hack at a time
<AlanBell> so lets say 12 hours utilisation a day
<ali1234> 24 hours man
<ali1234> gotta have it open 24 hours
<AlanBell> 10 people per day would fit, per day, lets say 30 days fully utilised per month
<daubers> AlanBell: We have people who do do that
<AlanBell> and multiplying that out, meant that it would be Â£250/month short on the costs
<AlanBell> so yeah you can have people doing that, but it isn't a fully proportional contribution to the costs
<daubers> (we don't count those on the memberships)
<ali1234> i don't think you can make a rule system that keeps everyone happy and also maximises use
<AlanBell> probably not
<ali1234> really though if someone is paying Â£5 per day and they use it for 2 days a month vs Â£30 for someone who uses it 25 days a month
<AlanBell> you just need to do the figures that show that a realistic plan exceeds the rent
<ali1234> they the Â£5/day person is getting the much worse deal
<AlanBell> ali1234: what it needs is lots of people who pay Â£30/month and hardly ever turn up, like a gym
<ali1234> that is totally unrealistic
<AlanBell> and some people will use it 25 days one month and then not turn up for a couple of months
<ali1234> what it actually needs is lots of people who will pay Â£5/day for 2 days
<AlanBell> or get disinterested and do other stuff and wait 6 months before cancelling the standing order
<ali1234> what is the estimated costs?
<ali1234> honestly a space with room for 5 people is probably too big
<Laney> nottinghack has a pretty large space
<Laney> apparently it costs them 800/month
<AlanBell> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ankl5FhsdSiZdGNYRDFOS2ZyRTgxNUZVWVFlNVU2QVE
<Laney> no idea how they fund it
<AlanBell> there are two scenarios there, one for this Â£500/month place and one for a high end clean and shiny mass market maker space
<ali1234> so you're talking about 1500 for a space for 5 people
<ali1234> all inclusive
<AlanBell> yeah
<ali1234> well 1500/5 = 300
<ali1234> or Â£10/day
<ali1234> that's just too expensive
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> doesn't matter how you split it up
<AlanBell> I am not sure if it is a 5 person space really, it is 500 square foot, now 100sqft is a small bedroom, good for a single bed, double bed might just fit, but not with a wardrobe
<ali1234> hmm
<AlanBell> so I think 5 people doing stuff including space for machines and storage would be about full
<ali1234> 10ft x 10ft x 5
<ali1234> that's enough for more than 5
<ali1234> perhaps 7 or 8
<AlanBell> maybe
<ali1234> thing is i find it unlikely you can get 5 people using it 100% of the time
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> a couple might be sat on beanbags having a cup of tea or whatever
<shauno> I was about to say that.  ours isn't much bigger than that.  you cna over-subscribe floorspace pretty well.  everyone finds the time of day that suits them, no-one camps out 24/7
<ali1234> yeah those people don't need 100sqft each though :)
<shauno> they're members, not tennants.  they're paying for membership, not 10x10
<AlanBell> true, but 5 didn't seem unrealistic, might be a bit low
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: you could try right joins instead of inner
<ali1234> doesn't matter. SOMEONE is paying for the 10x10 eventually
<AlanBell> interesting, thanks dogmatic69 I will have a look at that
<ali1234> in the end i think you can get cheaper
<shauno> right, but I'm saying 'space for 5' isn't '5 members'.  it's 5 concurrent users before they're forced to start socialising
<dogmatic69> inner will get rows if either side of the join matches, right will only get rows if the join exists
<AlanBell> ali1234: I suggested they find someone with a double garage they can run power to
<dogmatic69> with right and no > 0 condition should be the same I think
<ali1234> i prefr the idea of industrial space with no neighbours
<daubers> AlanBell: Speaking to Paul the other day, it would probably be easier to find a farmer with a spare outbuilding
<diplo> evening all
<ali1234> farmers live in the middle of nowhere, no public transport
<daubers> ali1234: as a starting point, it's pretty good, and if you get the right mix of people it's not necessarily a problem
<ali1234> where "right" = has a car?
<daubers> "right" = can bum a lift from other members :)
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: RIGHT JOIN instead of INNER JOIN returns the same data and the same explain results
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: you change all the inners?
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: yeah, all of them
<dogmatic69> hmm
<ali1234> if you can find 10 people who use it 25 days a month for 6 hours a day and pay Â£30/month, and 10 people who use it 2 days a month for 6 hours a day to pay Â£10/month, that gives you a budget of Â£400 and an average usage level of 2.5 people assuming 24 hours opening
<dogmatic69> ok, back to how it was then. Does that accountid field have an index atleast?
<AlanBell> how do I tell?
<dogmatic69> show create table table_name;
<dogmatic69> show create table vtiger_account; specifically
<MartijnVdS> show create table ?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1088542/ so it is the primary key, does that automatically mean it is an index?
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: that out's the create statement which has the keys
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: should be
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: ah, \d shows it too in postgresql :)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: maybe too used to that :)
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: just '\d'?
<MartijnVdS> \d tablename
<dogmatic69> ah
<MartijnVdS> \d shows a list of tables, sequences, views
<dogmatic69> postgresql is clunky to me. not used it much
<MartijnVdS> \d<letters> can show more
 * MartijnVdS likes postgres a lot more than others
<MartijnVdS> other dbms
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: as that is the pk its strange that its not using it
<daubers> AlanBell, ali1234: Thanks for the ideas. Will add them to my little list
<dogmatic69> It must be due to the > 0
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: how about... with the data you get back, is there one result per vtiger_account.accountid ?
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: yes
<dogmatic69> if that is the case, you could swap out the > 0 for a group by vtiger_account.accountid HAVING vtiger_account.accountid > 0
<dogmatic69> ... WHERE vtiger_crmentity.deleted =0 GROUP BY vtiger_account.accountid HAVING vtiger_account.accountid > 0
<dogmatic69> using HAVING my change the way the query optimiser works
<AlanBell> cunning
<dogmatic69> If that fails, you can tell mysql what index to use (last resort I think)
<AlanBell> it doesn't return identical data
<dogmatic69> :(
<dogmatic69> how many rows with the group by?
<AlanBell> both do 20 rows
<AlanBell> it is offset by 6 places
<AlanBell> might be deleted records
<dogmatic69> bah. Just noticed.. it actually is using the pk with > 0
<AlanBell> I think I might poke other places for optimisations for a while
<ali1234> wait, why is there a Â£500 fee for "accountancy"?
<ali1234> find someone who will do it for free in return for a membership!
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: Can you tell me how fast it is if you do "SELECT SQL_NO_CACHE ...."
<dogmatic69> or slow
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, that would be something that could be removed easily if they found someone
<AlanBell> 20 rows in set (0.01 sec)
<dogmatic69> you cant get quicker than that
<dogmatic69> must be the php ?
<AlanBell> 20 rows in set (0.00 sec)
<AlanBell> quicker ;)
<dogmatic69> unless the select is returning like 45MB that needs to be transferred, but doubt that.
<AlanBell> yeah, PHP is doing lots of crazy, and there are other queries going on to build the page, some repeated lots of times
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: you have slow query logging enabled?
<AlanBell> no, I think adding the index to the view sorted that part out
<AlanBell> I did do some work with slow query logging, but there are not many slow queries happening
<dogmatic69> https://github.com/rackerhacker/MySQLTuner-perl/blob/master/mysqltuner.pl
<dogmatic69> run that, will give some good advice
<AlanBell> it just sometimes does like 118 queries to build a page
<MartijnVdS> _118_
<dogmatic69> that is not much if they all take 0.01
<MartijnVdS> what's this? Joomla?
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: ITS PHP!!!!eleven!!11!1
 * bigcalm returns yet again
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: yeah, it isn't masses in total, but it is kind of chatty
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: reddit.com/r/lolphp for you :)
<AlanBell> I think that doing the horizontal scaling thing and putting mysql on a separate machine would just kill it
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: is that a bunch of circle jerking on param order?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: nah
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: just people laughing at PHP bugs :)
<dogmatic69> this is the best ticket I have ever seen. https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=50696
<dogmatic69> will go down in the history books
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: Might want to install xhprof
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/callgraphs/contact.png
<dogmatic69> good job, that was quick :P
<AlanBell> fun isn't it
<shauno> my favourite php bug is not being able to use classes/methods that contain a capital I in the name, if you switch to the turkish locale.
<ali1234> explain please?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: you should do something like https://github.com/Infinitas-Plugins/developer/blob/master/Xhprof/Lib/xhprof.php#L50
<dogmatic69> ignore some methods, so its easier to see what is going on
<shauno> the locale is applied to the method names too. I have no idea why.  and in turkish, I isn't an upper-case i
<shauno> https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=35050  'wontfix'
<bigcalm> The biggest problem with PHP are its users :)
<dogmatic69> s/its/some of its/
<dogmatic69> My biggest gripe with php is the low barrier to entry.
<AlanBell> I don't like the way it is mixed up in an HTML page
<dogmatic69> Its worse than the UK border agency
<AlanBell> ;)
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: it is a templating language. the OOP us bolted on top. there are talks of ditching <?php ... files and have php only stuff
<dogmatic69> similar to a .c file I guess
<AlanBell> php stands for Personal Home Page
<dogmatic69> used to
<AlanBell> or it did until it went recursive
<AlanBell> PHP Hypertext Preprocessor
<dogmatic69> ye. it changed to that years ago
<bigcalm> Is there a better way of finding the end of a month than this? SELECT DATE_SUB(DATE_ADD('2012-02-01', INTERVAL 1 MONTH), INTERVAL 1 DAY);
<dogmatic69> yes, one sec
<dogmatic69> LAST_DAY(now())
<bigcalm> o.O
<dogmatic69> replace now() with what ever date
<dogmatic69> if you want the time too CONCAT_WS(" ", LAST_DAY(:model.:datetime), "23:59:59")
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: thank you :)
<dogmatic69> np
<bigcalm> I liked my work around, but yours is more direct!
<dogmatic69> looks like this has been converted to #mysql
<imanc_> is there a gnome command to move all windows out of the way thus clearing the desktop?
<dogmatic69> window key + d?
<imanc_> ohh
<imanc_> nah
<bigcalm> I'm being passed the year and month, I need to then fetch all records that happened in that year/month. Going to use BETWEEN, unless you know of a better method :)
<imanc_> doesn't seem to do anything
<Azelphur> got my scottevest today :D
<dogmatic69> I just do alt + tab then keeping alt in hit shift + tab twice
<Azelphur> mum couldn't even figure out that I was carrying a 10.1 inch netbook in my pocket
<Azelphur> awesome coat is awesome.
<imanc_> dogmatic69, wow, that sort of worked. Not sure i can recreate it tho
<dogmatic69> imanc_: ctrl + alt + d
<imanc_> dogmatic69, doesn't work
<dogmatic69> oh
<imanc_> i'm using 12.04 btw
<dogmatic69> same
<dogmatic69> hold windows key down for 5 seconds
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: that does nothing for me in xfce :)
<imanc_> I guess alt-f4 closes down windows
<dogmatic69> that is like exit though
<imanc_> dogmatic69,  ctrl+super=d
<imanc_>  ctrl+super+d
<imanc_> dogmatic69, in osx it shows the desktop :)
<imanc_> I thought i was onto something 'till I realised xchat had vanished
<dogmatic69> this is ubuntu though :P
<imanc_> yer
<dogmatic69> did you hack about your 12.04 install ?
<dogmatic69> mine is pretty standard besides extra apps
<imanc_> I have just got it installed on a new comp - i've had it trying to do python dev on osx
<imanc_> I haven't hacked it at all tho
<dogmatic69> but gnome?
<imanc_> well - it's using the default window manager - I thought that was gnome with 12.04?
<dogmatic69> unity
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: sorry, missed your message about between. I might have something better in my bag of tricks
<bigcalm> Heh, cool
<imanc_> dogmatic69, ahh, got it.  So many window managers..
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: everything for just the selected year / month?
<bigcalm> And some other conditions, but that's the bit to do with date
<dogmatic69> where YEAR(date_field) = $year AND MONTH(date_field) = $month ...
<bigcalm> Oh, I see :)
<dogmatic69> or you can do CONCAT_WS("-", YEAR(date_field), MONTH(date_field)) = '2012-02'
<bigcalm> :)
<dogmatic69> so php would be "CONCAT_WS(....) = ". date('Y-m', strtotime($fullDate))
<bigcalm> I'm passing this into Doctrine as well
<dogmatic69> never used it much
<bigcalm> Don't want to get too specific for MySQL
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<dogmatic69> is this a personal project?
<dogmatic69> open source etc
<bigcalm> Newp, work
<dogmatic69> multi engine support is a pita
<dogmatic69> forget concat_ws then
<bigcalm> It's currently using MySQL. But best to keep ones options open :)
<bigcalm> SELECT * FROM payment WHERE YEAR(created_at) = 2012 AND MONTH(created_at) = 7;
<dogmatic69> not portable, unless doctrine is magic
<bigcalm> That's good enough :)
<dogmatic69> ye
<bigcalm> Doctrine and Propel are two PHP ORMs that can use multiple database engines
<bigcalm> I happen to be using Doctrine this time
<dogmatic69> cake too
<imanc_> bigcalm, are you using them with an mvc framework?
<bigcalm> imanc_: Symfony 1.4
<imanc_> ahh
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: missing cake?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: not really. I only use CakePHP for 1 existing project
<bigcalm> We use Symfony when we start from scratch
<imanc__> django ftw
<dogmatic69> oh ok
<bigcalm> imanc__: wrong language :)
<imanc__> no right language :)
<imanc__> When I check settings / details / graphics, i see "driver: unknown / experience: standard"
<imanc__> but according to Ubuntu's hardware certification for this laptop I'm using the following driver:
<imanc__> Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller
<imanc__> Just trying to figure out if I need to install a specific driver and if so, how
<dogmatic69> I think the intel ones are good. nvidia needs proprietary drivers
<imanc_> yeh, lshw seems to show that
<imanc_> hm
<daubers> *yawn*
<imanc_> is there a way of getting a list of all installed apps in unity, or is it just a case of searching for 'em with super+A ?
<AlanBell> imanc_: ls /usr/share/applications is pretty close
<AlanBell> or you can write something to talk to the applications lens on dbus
<dogmatic69> How can I find out what is using port 80?
<AlanBell> telnet localhost 80
 * bigcalm slumps
<bigcalm> Taxi duties over for the night
<bigcalm> Back to coding I go
<christel> i do wonder where i put the RAT tickets :x
<christel> i remember unpacking them after moving and going "I must put these somewhere safe"
<christel> :)
<imanc_> AlanBell, thanks
<bigcalm> christel: please don't worry me like that
<christel> bigcalm: haha
<christel> they will be here.. somewhere
<christel> somewhere, er, safe.
<christel> :P
<dogmatic69> What would cause @    WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!     @
<dogmatic69> on ssh.
<dogmatic69> would updating from 10.10 -> 12.04 do that?
<bigcalm> A change in machine details would, yes
<dogmatic69> hmm, I rebooted and logged in since then...
<bigcalm> Just edit ~/.ssh/known_hosts and remove the offending lines
<dogmatic69> so I was logged in, watching tv. came back to "write failed, broken pipe". and this
<dogmatic69> yea, I know how to overcome it
<bigcalm> :)
<dogmatic69> "IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING NASTY!"
<bigcalm> Maybe this is actually one of those times.
<dogmatic69> mitm
<bigcalm> Usually it's me doing something silly
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> If someone is doing something silly, I dont want them infecting my ssh
<dogmatic69> I will go through a dummy server, if that makes a difference
<dogmatic69> hmmm
<dogmatic69> all the files I uploaded are gone :/
<bigcalm> Is it possible you've logged into a different server?
<dogmatic69> no, I think the host formatted it
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> That will be the reason for the warning then
<dogmatic69> this is the problem with dealing with retards
<dogmatic69> it was 10.10 and I wanted 12.04
 * bigcalm hugs bytemark
<dogmatic69> The client was messing about so I just done the upgrade
<dogmatic69> now its formatted again..
<bigcalm> Blame the client
<dogmatic69> And I had just finished installing everything, for the 3rd time
<dogmatic69> ffs
<bigcalm> popey: you have returned!
<popey> o/
<andylockran> hey all
<andylockran> looking around a flat tomorrow, potentially to buy
<andylockran> it comes with Control4, home automation (underfloor heating, lighting and audio)
<andylockran> there's even a TV in the shower (waterproof) and a mirror with embedded FM radio.
<Azelphur> I want it.
<andylockran> but, my question, is has Control4 - anyone know of success with playing with it
<andylockran> I also want some funny ideas - my girlfriends is to set up 'who wants to be a millionaire music' to come on at high volume when you dim the lights - then the heating will turn up too
<andylockran> that way, it'll give the effect of stress for our quiz nights
<bigcalm> Good morning
<andylockran> or raipdough/articulate .etc
<andylockran> :D
<andylockran> sounds fun eh?
<dogmatic69> how can I install a specific version of imagemagic?
<bigcalm> Pin it
<bigcalm> But what's wrong with the current version?
<dogmatic69> on my local dev I have ImageMagick 6.6.0-4 works fine, on live ImageMagick 6.6.9-7 broken
<dogmatic69> how do you "pin it"
<dogmatic69> this has been two long days of crap :(
<bigcalm> Ug, I'll be googling now
<bigcalm> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto
<dogmatic69> they are both 12.04
<dogmatic69> but the one that works was a 12.04b upgrade. the other is installed today
<bigcalm> So why has one installed a newer version?
<dogmatic69> I dont know
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> They are going with letters now rather than .1 .2 .3. 4?
<dogmatic69> working: Version: ImageMagick 6.6.0-4 2012-04-30 Q16
<dogmatic69> broken: Version: ImageMagick 6.6.9-7 2012-04-30 Q16
<dogmatic69> I have done 3 clean installs one 10.10 that was live -> 12.04, 10.10 clean -> 12.04 and now clean 12.04
<dogmatic69> 3 installs..
<dogmatic69> This is the issue http://bin.cakephp.org/view/177665578
<dogmatic69> all I find on google was reported in 2011-05
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: pinning is for ubuntu / debain only
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: it's for apt
<dogmatic69> "Pinning is a process that allows you to remain on a stable release of Ubuntu (or any other debian system) while grabbing packages from a more recent version."
<dogmatic69> ye, blocks os updates, not packages
<bigcalm> Read further down
<bigcalm> There's an example for pinning firefox
<bigcalm> Another example: http://2bits.com/drupal-planet/various-ways-running-php-52-ubuntu-1004-lucid-lynx.html
<bigcalm> Sleepy time
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-13
<Azelphur> ${execgraph echo 100} "your exec value is not between 0 and 100"
 * Azelphur stabs conky in the face
<MartijnVdS> poor conky
<diplo> Morning all
<DJones> Morning
<AlanBell> morning
<christel> good morning :)
<mattt> morning morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<czajkowski> bleugh
 * bigcalm tickles czajkowski
<czajkowski> I wouldnt if I were you
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> What a great week, only another few hours till it's over
<diplo> :(
<bigcalm> czajkowski: would you prefer a poke?
<bigcalm> 24 hours (I hope) until we set off for Farnham
 * czajkowski would like to curl up and sleep 
 * czajkowski wont be making it to RAT either 
<bigcalm> popey: I hope there will be better weather for our arrival
<czajkowski> been sick most of this week
<bigcalm> :(
<czajkowski> and feel like utter crap
<bigcalm> czajkowski: that's not fair :(
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> my ears are popping today it's just been one long wek of feeling ill
<czajkowski> I need this week to be over
<bigcalm> Have you worked instead of recovering?
<diplo> Not sure how many game people are in here, but Steam Summer sale, anyone recommend a game like BattleField2 where you can wander around rather than follow a story line
<bigcalm> It's prolonged my colds before now. These days I listen to Hayley when she tells me to stay in bed and not work
<diplo> Like cod etc but just want to jump in and out of a game and just about worn bf2 out
 * popey points diplo at gord
<bigcalm> diplo: I think directhex knows all
<popey> and directhex :)
<diplo> bigcalm: I do that, always work through illness :/
<diplo> Stupid
<diplo> ta, you have both mentioned them now, I'll await
<bigcalm> Heh
<diplo> I used to game 8-10 hours a day, but since kids pretty much stopped.. just trying to find something to do in the evenings except the telly
<diplo> So got old gaming PC out
<popey> diplo, code :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<diplo> I code all day :/
<popey> i have stopped playing minecraft until I finish a couple of coding projects
<diplo> for last 2 years I barely go on my PC at night as I felt like I hated it :)
<bigcalm> Yeah, that does put a dampener on ones will to code for fun
<diplo> I've still never played minecraft :)
<bigcalm> diplo: give it a go?
<bigcalm> popey: but will either ever be 'finished'?
<popey> yes
<popey> oh, you mean minecraft? :)
 * czajkowski has never played minecraft 
<bigcalm> Heh
<czajkowski> I figure this is good or I'd be addicted
<popey> tbh trublr just needs a little bit of work
<popey> not much :)
<diplo> That's the thing with minecraft, worried I won't get away from it
<bigcalm> The addiction fades
<gord> diplo, ARMA2 i guess, or maybe battlefield 3
<popey> why is my coffee and toast taking so long to arrive!
<bigcalm> popey: because you haven't bribed your children enough
<bigcalm> popey: they need more training
<popey> i think its because i muted wifes phone
<popey> so now she doesn't hear the facebook pings from me
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> You requested breakfast via Facebook?
<diplo> gord: Is BF3 like BF2 but just newer ? IE Gameplay
<diplo> I've got arma but seemed to fail to get into it, may try again
<gord> not really, its more like call of duty. but still has planes and jets
<diplo> can you free play though ?
<gord> er helis and jets
<gord> what do you mean by free play
<popey> wander around like GTA3
<gord> but you couldn't do that in bf2 ;) not without getting shot in the face
<diplo> heh, I just like i could go in bf2 on a big map and not follow a story line, just play against bots
<gord> ah okay, no, you can do that in ARMA2, but in bf3 its vs online people or story
<bigcalm> Sounds like IRC to me
<gord> but the online is very well done
<diplo> yeah not sure I want to play online anymore, worried I'll get addicted to it again :D
<bigcalm> hl2 dm :D
<diplo> Used to play *alot*
<bigcalm> diplo: you played gord?
<bigcalm> Oh, wrong spelling :)
<dwatkins> I played gord in a sitcom once.
<diplo> In original cod, top ten people on global stats, 6 of those were from my clan
<diplo> and dod we were fairly high up, then we all either grew up / had kids / got married :/
<bigcalm> Time and life are vicious
 * bigcalm looks down at his beer belly
<gord> sounds like you had a lot of fun, sounds like rekindling that would be a lot of fun too
<diplo> yeah miss it, used to go to the Multiplay Lans down in newbury for many years
<diplo> Lot's of beer and gaming
<bigcalm> christel: have you found your RAT tickets yet?
<popey> \o/ coffee and toast arrive!
<bigcalm> It's a kind of magic
<popey> indeed
<bigcalm> I doubt it will work for me though
<christel> bigcalm: i have not yet looked
 * bigcalm tickles christel into action
<directhex> someone rang? diplo?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday the 13th! >:-)
<diplo> Just talking about games directhex
<directhex> ah, my specialty
<diplo> Wondering if anyone can recommend a BF2 esq style one where you can wander around
<diplo> Don't want a story line
<directhex> multiplayer?
<diplo> gord has mentioned ARMA, single player preferably so i can switch on and off at will when kids are about
<diplo> Everything seems to be story line now, and not bots you can play against
<directhex> i can see why he'd recommend ARMA. it's a reasonable option
<directhex> it's not really a genre i engage in. i love stories
<diplo> I've got a version at home, probably bought 3 year or so ago
<diplo> I liked the cod stories tbh, first time I'd ever completed a game from start to finish
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> But stopped playing after Modern Warfare
<directhex> MW3 is on sale :D
<directhex> i wonder how you'd do with STALKER. it's got a storyline. on paper. but it's far too freeform for my tastes
<diplo> Hmm, I've head of that
<diplo> heard*
<diplo> I'll take a look ta
<bigcalm> Robocod?
<directhex> and, traditionally, operation flashpoint is The(tm) series for this stuff. but maybe i'm showing my age
<diplo> yeah used to play that a long time ago, but one version i tried i just couldn't get into
<gord> hrm, sent a cancellation request to my ISP so i can switch to fibre, now i'm getting terrible internet. i'm overly suspicious!
<popey> you going FTTC?
<gord> yeah, quoted 80mbit, we'll see
<popey> infinity or whatever its called?
<popey> golly
<gord> zen, infinity reseller
<popey> my virgin cable is supposed to go from 30 to 60 "sometime between october and july next year"
<gord> the > 100mbit fibre stuff should start rolling out next year i think, but that means upgrading my network from 100 -> 1000mbit :(... and i don't need that much bandwidth either
<oimon> in libreoffice calc, how do i stop autocomplete in a cell? i am typing cheese but don't want cheeseburger to appear when i press return after typing cheese
<oimon> my workaround is to press space after and delete the space
<oimon> but i want better
<inn0min4t3> Good afternoon :)
<oimon> talking of games (directhex, gord) anyone know of a good WWII dogfight game on any platform?
<directhex> oimon, il2 sturmovic is the best regarded for that iirc
<oimon> my fave game of yore was chocks away
<gord> yes get il2
<gord> but only if you have a joystick
<oimon> i played il2 on xbox 360 but didn't seem to have that wow factor :-\
<gord> its not the same game
<oimon> how about if i plug a ps2 controller into pc?
<gord> il2 sturmovic on pc is amazing
<gord> no, get a joystick
<directhex> sorry, you want a dogfighting game with a joypad? that's not a dogfighting game, it's an arcade shooter
<directhex> you need a joystick the size of a house, with full manual throttle
<gord> here is a great lp of sturmovik, it should convince you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3nY-1ShU80&list=PLCA1B7F12E836EC5D&index=2&feature=plpp_video
<oimon> which version of il2 on pc?
<gord> oimon: http://www.gog.com/gamecard/il_2_sturmovik_1946 this one
 * BigRedS loves his il2
<inn0min4t3> On the subject of games, I was happy to see that Heroes of Newearth have a Linux client.. Even if League of Legends doesn't :(
<BigRedS> though I've been missing it recently. Doesn't want to work either on my Ubuntu or Wintendo 7 installs :(
<oimon> does it work on wine perchance?
<oimon> gord, ?
<gord> no idea, i play it on my windows 7 machine
<oimon> ah gameOS
<gord> i would guess it does though, it has an opengl mode and is old and popular enough
<oimon> just flicked through the youtube vids and didn't see any planes :P
<gord> well not if you flick through ;P head to the russian campaign he did for more great action
<oimon> ah, found the 58 planes combat one
<inn0min4t3> That game would work fine using WINE (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=1838)
<oimon> wish i was near farnborough this week
<oimon> like seeing the old planes
<oimon> thanks for advice chaps, think i will invest in il2 then
<BigRedS> gord: I've got it working before, but it doesn't appear to OOTB on Precise
<BigRedS> I've put precisely zero effort in to troubleshooting it though
<popey> oimon, its overrated
<oimon> popey, my dad lives in farnham, it's quite cool to be in the garden on a sunny day when a lanc flies over though
<oimon> the traffic is terrible though
<oimon> i'm still a child when a jet flies overhead, i run out of the house
<BigRedS> yeah, every time I leave London on the M4, M11 or M23 there's a good chance I'll ride into something 'cause I'm watching a 737 or something overhead...
<diplo> Hmm Il2 Sturm, I have that...
<oimon> diplo, you like?
<diplo> yeah think I did, not played it in a long time
<diplo> Might dig that as well
<oimon> probably easier than spinning up an archimedes emulator for chocks away to discover the graphis and gameplay are better in my memories
<directhex> heh. hate it when that happens
<directhex> happy to say super metroid is as wonderful today as it was in the 90's though <3
<oimon> il2 is on offer from steam..Â£6.69 - do steam games come with drm?
<oimon> i.e. can i copy it from a win box running steam client to a linux box
<directhex> steam itself is technically a DRM platform
<directhex> games may optionally include a second, thicker layer of DRM (e.g. recent ubisoft games with their always-on nonsense)
<BigRedS> oimon: you can install steam under wine
<BigRedS> but otherwise, no. I think steam games are pretty dependent on several steam libraries
<oimon> meh
<BigRedS> I only tried it a couple of times before just installing steam in wine
<oimon> does that work as expected?
<BigRedS> With games I have a very low arsedness threshold. If it's too much like work to get them going I just do some work and get paid for it instead
<oimon> i noticed there's another il2 game released: cliffs of dover
<oimon> last year
<BigRedS> yeah, it was pretty good. I only played HL2, though, not IL2
<BigRedS> My IL2 is a non-steam CD
<directhex> it depends on the game, FWIW, as to how tightly the steamclient.dll dependency is coded in
<directhex> some games basically don't require it at all (old DOS games bundled with dosbox, mainly)
<directhex> if the game has achievements, it has tighter coupling, for obvious raisins
<directhex> or cloud saves
<BigRedS> obvious raisins? I do not like those
<BigRedS> thoigh they're better than ones that're sneakily hidden in cake. Those are the worst
<BigRedS> But, anyway, IL2 doesn't integrate into steam at all, so you might be okay
<oimon> sounds like a lot of if buts and maybes.
<oimon> maybe i should buy the DVD of the game @4.45 :-\
<directhex> oimon, but then you'd have to wait, like some kind of webless savage
<oimon> i'm a daddy, i think i'll prob have to wait for a wek before i get an hour to play it
<oimon> ah, my wiff is out for 1 hr tonight.hmmm
<oimon> probably take more than that to configure in wine :-\
<directhex> i get to play games every 3 hours!
<diplo> every 3 hours ?
<directhex> yes!
<directhex> well, about 3.5 at the moment
<diplo> nice
<oimon> i've recently come back to firefox, is there a way to see what tab is killing my cpu?
<gord> its the one with twitter in it
<diplo> heh or G+
<diplo> But I've just downloaded opera and I must say first time I've used it in years and it's quick
<oimon> looks like it was a dead facebook went wrong tab
<diplo> on FB whilst at work!
<diplo> :P
<oimon> "on FB" means having a tab open, then yes :D
<oimon> turns out there's lots of mods and maps for il2 too ..
<diplo> ooh, my joystick is about as old as old :)
<diplo> serial to usb convertor on it
<directhex> ._.
<directhex> serial or MIDI?
<diplo> not sure tbh, not used in a long time
<diplo> but from what i remember of usb convertors it could be midi
 * diplo googles
<diplo> Still none the wiser, but from memory it worked before
<oimon> how do joysticks/gamepads work with wine? is it decided by the game?
<AdvoWork> Hi there. I've decided its time to give something back to Ubuntu, where do I begin :p
<oimon> only used one before with n64 emulator, and that had an interface to config it
<directhex> AdvoWork, what are your skills?
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> !contribute
<lubotu3> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<popey> AdvoWork, ^^
<directhex> popey, translation is missing from that url
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu#Translation
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<popey> you're right about the first one tho
 * popey files a bug
<popey> oh, directhex its under "non technical users"
<popey> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/get-involved/non-technical-users
<diplo> I really think my work is trying to make me get really peaved this week
<diplo> php4 issues and now perl :(
<AdvoWork> directhex, erm, i know various distributions(ubuntu,centos,freebsd) various other things such as asterisk/trixbox/xen, coding wise (php/js/smarty/) apache and so forth. Some things better than others
<jacobw> morning
<jacobw> AdvoWork: packaging
<jacobw> what's smarty?
<AlanBell> a templating system
<AlanBell> it can be used for good or for evil
<directhex> AdvoWork, bug fixing is useful, if occasionally tedious
<directhex> we use smarty at work
<directhex> for evil
<directhex> we glued movable type into smarty
 * AlanBell is trying to get some vtiger smarty stuff to not be broken right now
<directhex> i might be biased, but i think making new mono-based games is obviously the most valuable thing one can do
<AdvoWork> directhex, smarty annoys the life out of me, i'm going to try and get rid of it this year
<AdvoWork> it makes quite a difference in page loading too sometimes.
<AdvoWork> out of interest, do you all have regular meetings?
<jacobw> domain language of php?
<jacobw> !meetings
<lubotu3> Team meetings are held in #ubuntu-meeting - See Â« /msg ubottu logs Â» for transcripts.
<directhex> AdvoWork, anyway, the links popey pasted are surprisingly good. i guess the key thing to do is find a niche that interests, and maybe even excites, you. you're not going to be a good contributor on things you don't care much about, since it feels too much like "work"
<directhex> AdvoWork, what motivates is benefiting yourself from your efforts, and seeing your improvements in visible ways
<AdvoWork> yeah, i'll have a bit of a browse and see what I can help with. I've been to one meeting/conference(last year) i think, in London, but cant remember who was doing it now
<AlanBell> AdvoWork: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod what phone you got kidda
<jacobw> the famous barbecue :)
<AlanBell> jacobw: starting to get slightly concerned about the weather now
<czajkowski> davmor2: galaxy nexus
<davmor2> czajkowski: and how is jelly bean, and keep mentioning on twitter I want to see if fab explodes :D
 * MartijnVdS loves jelly bean
<MartijnVdS> \o/ galaxy nexus
 * MartijnVdS is waiting for 4.1 on Xoom
<Myrtti> jellyben â¥
<brobostigon> :)
<Myrtti> bean, even
<czajkowski> davmor2: whats up with him ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: see twitter he is saying things like ICS is the new JB
<czajkowski> meh
<czajkowski> for sanity sake I dont follow him :)
 * AlanBell wonders whether to renew givehugs.net
 * christel gives hugs to AlanBell 
<AlanBell> was going to be a like/+1 button thingie, but less evil (or run for my own evil benefit rather than an evil corporation)
<AlanBell> so on a blog post or whatever you could add a hug button along with the G+/Tweet/reddit stuff
<MartijnVdS> popey, AlanBell, Laney: You can now move your G+ contacts to another account!
<MartijnVdS> Log in with  the "unwanted" account on google.com/takeout
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I'm waiting for the promised ICS still but if I get JB in the meant ime I'll be more than happy :)
<MartijnVdS> and you can select it
<Laney> MartijnVdS: ah, nice
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: On which device?
<MartijnVdS> Laney, popey: https://plus.google.com/117826731803569547326/posts/5EXAuM3QJrP
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Xoom
<Laney> There's a 7 day waiting period before your transfer begins.
<Laney> yah boo
<Laney> would be nice if it took content too I guess, but still good
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: ah, still no ICS on yours? Time to flash one of the factory images :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://rootzwiki.com/topic/1586-stock-images/
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: still under Warranty so I'll upgrade with official but thanks :)
<AdvoWork> is this down for anyone else? or is there a different page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<diplo> Just jumped on a customers server because it wasn't doing an update to their site
<diplo> Rogue process been using 90% cpu since may 10th
<diplo> and no one has complained!
<diplo> the link redirects yes AdvoWork
<diplo> ymm no it doesn't
 * diplo sets /ignore diplo
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: _if_ it ever comes :)
<oimon> i wanna buy a tiny hand drill than takes really small drill bits, like this - what would it be called?
<oimon> http://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/images/expo_tools/750-10.jpg
<jacobw> oimon: what's the dimensions of that grid?
<oimon> probably the length is 4 inches for the hand drill
<oimon> apparently it's a revolving top pin vice
<directhex> was about to say, looks like a pin vice to me
<oimon> i need it for modelling
<directhex> i sold one recently on ebay
<oimon> :(
<It> net
<directhex> http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470006a&prodId=prod1095460 ?
<oimon> my copy to usb stick has taken 1hr so far...1 hr to go
<oimon> :-\
<oimon> directhex, do you make models?
<directhex> oimon, not for more than a decade now
<oimon> when i put the laptop down and do some modelling i always wonder why i don't prioritise it , it's very de-stressing
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: well yes
 * bigcalm returns
<davmor2> bigcalm: Hey dude, have you seen JB on you sgs3?
<bigcalm> davmor2: should I be expecting it?
<bigcalm> I don't actually know how to check for updates on this handset :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I just wondered if you'd done a search and seen a video :D
<Twinkletoes> Is there any reason my 10.04 LTS isn't detecting that 12.04 is out?  the setting on Update Manager is set to "Prompt=lts"
<bigcalm> Twinkletoes: yes, it'll be available once 12.04.1 is released
<Twinkletoes> bigcalm: Ah, ok - thank you :)
<bigcalm> Twinkletoes: which I was expecting 1st July. So I don't know what's the state of play
<bigcalm> davmor2: Not looked. It any good?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't know that's why I thought I'd ask you, you spanner :)
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> 4 hours until I'm on holiday for a week
 * bigcalm tries to contain his excitement
<davmor2> and fails
<bigcalm> Are you sure?
<davmor2> I think that was you about as excited as you get, so yes I'm sure :P
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> You know the reasons
 * bigcalm picks up Learning Python for some light afternoon reading
<davmor2> bigcalm: have a look at this instead http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/  loads of code snippets with pretty good explanations on what and how it works (it might help you more than just a book
<bigcalm> davmor2: ta
<davmor2> )
<christel> bigcalm: PANIC OVER
<christel> i found my tickets
<bigcalm> Yippie :D
<bigcalm> christel: prepared to be tickled!
<christel> woop
<DJones> AlanBell: Any interest? http://www.thevarguy.com/2012/07/13/selling-linux-pcs-to-senior-citizens-the-wow-computer/
<davmor2> this is a class tune http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9OsdvZu-I8&feature=related and popey it from the 90's :D
<davmor2> christel: he said tickled not do an impression of zoidburg :D
<christel> haha
<diplo> Class is a bit strong davmor2 :P
<bigcalm> Heh
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: wubwubwubwub!
<davmor2> see now MartijnVdS has turned into Zoidburg
<MartijnVdS> People know my name!
<jacobw> bigcalm: check out http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596515829.do and http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596516499.do for ways of learning python whilst learning something else
<bigcalm> Interesting
<bigcalm> I can do hello world in python now
<bigcalm> What more do I need?
<mattt> bigcalm: what about herro world?
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> You have turned my world upside down
<mattt> my work is done
 * mattt is afk
<jacobw> tip: don't write python code with python3 features and expect it with on lucid
<jacobw> work with lucid even
<davmor2> bigcalm: use QT and do it in a gui
<bigcalm> So print, not print() ?
<ali1234> print() always works
<ali1234> due to the way tuples are parsed
<ali1234> it might not have the same results but it won't crash
<bigcalm> I still can't get my head around the lack of ; at the end of statements
<davmor2> bigcalm: print('moo') iirc is the way it will work in python3
<jacobw> print "{object} does {subject}".format(object=name,subject=thing)
<jacobw> labels in {} within strings can be replaced with variables using string.format()
<bigcalm> Fun
<davmor2> bigcalm: it could be worse you could be looking at perl :D
<bigcalm> I know perl
<bigcalm> Or used to
<ali1234> the problem with perl is everybody knows a slightly different dialect
<jacobw> features like dictionary comprehension and list comprehensions make python awesome
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> Hmm, conky has a variable called wireless_link_qual, it shows a number saying what my signal quality is, currently it's 69/70. What unit would that be in?
<ali1234> but those are just nice syntax for common design patterns
<ali1234> which is the way it should be
<ali1234> Azelphur: "qualities"
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> anyway you answered your own question
<ali1234> it's 69/70
<Azelphur> yea but 69/70 what, dBm?
<ali1234> no
<Azelphur> %?
<ali1234> it's unitless
<ali1234> it's not percent either
<Azelphur> you can't have a unitless measurement
<Azelphur> that's madness
<ali1234> if it was 69/100 it would be percent
<ali1234> it's 69/70 so it's per-seventy
<Azelphur> sorry, I meant it hovers between 69 and 70
<Azelphur> I'll go with percent
<ali1234> the real answer is every wireless chipset uses a different unit
<ali1234> so there's no way of knowing
<Azelphur> fun
<davmor2> Azelphur: All you need to know is it's one less than 71 :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<jacobw> you could add another line of code to make it a percent
<Azelphur> ali1234: aha, it is in magical pony units, It has a wireless_link_qual_max variable too
<Darael> Azelphur: of course you can have unitless measurements.  Boson numbers, strangeness...
<Azelphur> but it also has wireless_link_qual_perc, so I'll use that instead
<jacobw> i'm looking for offline games for ubuntu to play this weekend
<jacobw> i have roughly an hour to download thing before i head home
<bigcalm> 2.5 hoursish until holiday \o/
<jacobw> i already have warzone 2100
 * jacobw mails bigcalm a real live python for his return
<bigcalm> Hah
<diplo> Me being all pompous and saying o2 hadn't affected me yesterday
<diplo> Well I now can't send txts or calls
<diplo> yet all says ok
<diplo> :(
<bigcalm> Does rebooting the phone help?
<bigcalm> Or turning off radio and back on again
<diplo> Nope and nope
<diplo> :/
<diplo> Turned to 2g only as well
<bigcalm> Silly o2
<diplo> yer :(
<diplo> mate just text me to test, so can defo receive them
<diplo> Hmm, maybe my fault
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Defo was my fault, I really shouldn't have got out of bed this morning
<bigcalm> 1 hour, 54 mins
<diplo> 54mins...
 * jacobw is on CEST
<jacobw> \o/
<bigcalm> Darn you all
<diplo> Why the work so late bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> diplo: it's my contracted hours
<diplo> 9-6 ?
<bigcalm> Yep
<diplo> Benefit of getting up later though
<bigcalm> I took Hayley into work today. Need to remember to go and pick her up later :)
<diplo> heh
<bigcalm> Somebody kick me out at 6pm please?
<diplo> I forgot my kids school meeting, work been so manic. Lucky the ex wife text me to say what room it was in so jogged my memory
<bigcalm> Just used s-voice to set a reminder for 18:00
<bigcalm> That was far more trouble than I'm sure it was worth
<bigcalm> Would love this RSI in my mouse hand to go away
<bigcalm> I hope it doesn't effect my ability to hold pints of ale tomorrow
<jacobw> i sampled a litre of beer a few weeks ago
<jacobw> it is with shame that i say it was physically difficult to lift
<bigcalm> Quite a sample
<bigcalm> A litre is less than 2 pints
 * jacobw is not macho
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Or bad style of glass
<jacobw> i think the glass was about twice as thick as a british pint glass
<bigcalm> When going to a new pub, I insist on having a handled mug. They slowly learn to give me one without asking
<bigcalm> Good training for drinking proper pints ;)
<jacobw> hehe
<bigcalm> Aha. I think the RSI is from trying to play Bit.trip runner
 * bigcalm tinkers with Bastion for a bit instead
 * jacobw â home
<popey> bigcalm, good luck getting a handled mug on the beer train :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Whose on the RAT tomorrow then?
<AlanBell> me o/
<christel> ME!
<daubers> YOU!
 * christel nods
<bigcalm> Me
<bigcalm> popey: ho hum :)
<bigcalm> popey: will get me a RAT glass though
<sebsebseb> hi
<apacheuk> evening everyone
<bigcalm> Morning
<apacheuk> anyone have any experience with the application webcam???? am trying to make it ssh to my vps on a none standard port, my next step is to start banging my head against the wall
<bigcalm> apacheuk: I'm using webcam, but not of a non-standard ssh port
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matt Daubney] Home Sensing (what is your environment like?) - http://daubers.co.uk/2012/07/13/home-sensing-what-is-your-environment-like/
<apacheuk> bigcalm: am thinking I'm going to have to move it back to the standard port in order to get it too work
<bigcalm> apacheuk: I don't think you should have to. Try exporting an SSH variable before running webcam
<bigcalm> apacheuk: I don't recall what the variable for port number is though
<apacheuk> bigcalm: I have a config file in my .ssh dir to manage my various connections, how do you mean "Try exporting an SSH variable before running webcam"?
<bigcalm> apacheuk: as in export SSH_PORT=12345;webcam
<bigcalm> Or something
<bigcalm> I don't know what the variable is or if it will work
<apacheuk> bigcalm: ah OK, will give it a try
<apacheuk> hmmm no luck, my only other option I guess is to save the image locally then schedule a cron job to upload the file via sftp
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: why the export?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: just "SSH_PORT=12345 webcam" should set the variable for just the program you're running
<davmor2> MOOOOOOO!
<Azelphur> Is there anything in /proc that can tell you how long till battery is charged / discharged?
<Azelphur> conkies $battery is broked :(
<Azelphur> oh wait it's not broke, just really really slow to update
<dwatkins> cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state
<dwatkins> that shows me some information about my battery, ymmv
<dwatkins> Azelphur: I'm sure I can leave processing that as an excercise for the reader etc.
<Azelphur> yea, ty
<Azelphur> dwatkins: it doesn't have an ETA there
<dwatkins> Azelphur: I suspect that's calculated by the battery widget using the information shown there
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> conky has it, it's just that it updates really really slowly, I noticed that the battery update interval is 10 seconds, so maybe that's affecting conky. Wonder if I can turn that up a bi t:)
<dwatkins> Do you need information on your battery more frequently than every 10 seconds?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: yea, it bugs me with conky because it takes 10 seconds to change telling me it's no longer plugged in
<Azelphur> I'd prefer 1 second, I imagine the affect on battery life for the polling would be minimal anyway
<popey> AlanBell, have you planned your journey to/from the RAT?
<popey> I have, as yet, not.
<popey> wonder if i can get back to ash vale, that's not far from home
<dwatkins> Azelphur: ah I see what you mean, I would have expected that kind of state change to happen straightaway, like with an interrupt.
<popey> ooh, alton -> brookwood, brookwood -> farnborough might be a winner
<Azelphur> dwatkins: yea, ACPI kicks in and changes that it's running on battery power, but I have a "{time} until {dis}charged" line
<Azelphur> so if you plug it in the (dis)charged switches straight away, and the time stays still for ~10 seconds
<ali1234> "even a few rookie developers can at least make the virtual wallet more secure than a physical wallet" HAHAHAHAHA, oh wow, slashdot
<Azelphur> oh dear
<Azelphur> that's a recipe for disaster.
<ali1234> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2977669&cid=40641157
<ali1234> actually the whole comment is comedy gold
<ali1234> "you could literally have a new one downloaded the same day"
<ali1234> --- OR you can wait for 3 weeks while the bank does a security audit during which time your account is locked
<Azelphur> clearly someone never taught that guy not to put all your eggs into one basket
<ali1234> this is the kind of naivety that caused the bitcoin bubble
<ali1234> it doesn't surprise me that slashdot, which hates bitcoin, has failed to learn any of the lessons from it
<dwatkins> a credit card downloaded to your app... what could go wrong?
<dwatkins> Daisy, daisy....
<Azelphur> can anyone who is fancy with awk parse the output to xrandr to just show the current resolution?
<ali1234> xrandr | grep \*
<Azelphur> ali1234: almost, that gets the whole line :P
<ali1234> lines
<ali1234> if you have two monitors
<Azelphur> this is for a netbook, so only one monitor
<Azelphur> and I just want the resolution, eg 1366x768
<dwatkins> xrandr -display :0 | grep \* | cut -f4 -d' '
<Azelphur> ty :)
<dwatkins> remove the -display 0 if you're not doing it via a remote login.
<dwatkins> Sorry, but I couldn't be bothered to get up and walk over to the netbook ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<dwatkins> I'm not sure that's the best way, but it worked for me on 11.04, you may find a better and less error-prone way to parse it, I got that with a bit of trial-and-error.
<dwatkins> (and ali1234's rather useful suggestion)
<ali1234> just use xinerama api
<ali1234> XineramaQueryScreens
<ali1234> that's the best way to get the real setup of the display
<Azelphur> ali1234: this is for conky lol
<dwatkins> Azelphur: are you putting the result in a file or querying it every 10 seconds?
<Azelphur> querying it
<directhex> if anyone cares (e.g. diplo), il-2 is 50% off on gog.com
<popey> what's il-2?
<popey> oh, found it
<popey> http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/il_2_sturmovik_1946
<hamitron> I still not tried that since getting it before xmas
<Azelphur> is there a way to set the unity launcher color?
<czajkowski> popey: know if anyone else wants to go to RAT tomorrow?
<ahayzen> Azelphur: You can in CCSM
<Azelphur> ahayzen: ah, ty
<ahayzen> Azelphur, Ubuntu unity plugin -> Experimental -> background color (make sure you change the opacity)
<Azelphur> yea, found it :)
<ahayzen> yey :)
<popey> czajkowski, not off the top of my head, wonder if I could convince wifey to go
<czajkowski> popey: jon has my ticket spare
<Azelphur> ahayzen: hmm this doesn't seem to work, I've set the opacity everywhere to zero, and yet I still have a faint blue background
<ahayzen> i set opacity to 255
<Azelphur> ahayzen: if I do that then it totally trips out, the bar goes transparent and all the icons go solid black
<ahayzen> blimey
<ahayzen> guess that is why it is under experimental?
<Azelphur> lmao, that's a bug
<Azelphur> if I set it to #000001 it's fine
<Azelphur> it's only if you go total black that it freaks out
<ahayzen> yep same... total black #000000 with opacity 255 causes odd behaviour
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> the dash home button seems to have a blue background too, dunno where it got that from
<ahayzen> yh i noticed that...you should probably report a bug about this... unless there is one already
<Azelphur> hehe
<czajkowski> where did popey go
 * bigcalm peeks in
 * Azelphur peeks out
<bigcalm> Doh
<bigcalm> Was just heading off to pack
<bigcalm> Guess I can do both
<bigcalm> popey: anything for me to test? :)
<popey> no :(
<popey> well, maybe
<popey> yes
<popey> added a little debugging
<bigcalm> Ah, debugging is good
 * popey builds a deb
<bigcalm> I think you enjoy doing that now you know how
<popey> i do
<Azelphur> Just finished the new conky layout for my netbook, think it came out good :D https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/July/2012-07-13-230914_1366x768_scrot.png
<popey> nice
<popey> how often does the screen update?
<Azelphur> popey: conky updates every second
<bigcalm> Going away from home for 4 days. Do I need a tablet as well as a laptop?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: get the same netbook I have > no need to decide
<bigcalm> Netbooks don't have the umf I need
 * Azelphur shrugs
<bigcalm> And that doesn't answer the question for what I'm packing right now :)
 * bigcalm packs the Xoom
<Azelphur> I generally take every piece of tech I can carry :P
<bigcalm> I shall only take my phone on the train though
<bigcalm> popey: bringing any tablets? :P
<popey> haha, no
<bigcalm> Good!
<christel> AlanBell, popey (et al): pre-RAT burgers @ 4pm at The Mulberry <3
<popey> yay
<popey> mmmm burger
<bigcalm> 18:26 train from Farnham arrives in Alton at 18:39. RAT leaves Alton at 19:20, don't miss it :)
<popey> \o/
 * popey goes to prepare by sleeping
<popey> nn all
<bigcalm> I'm too excited to sleep
<bigcalm> But will try anyway
<bigcalm> Long drive in the morning
<bigcalm> Good night peeps :)
<popey> nn
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-14
<Azelphur> ali1234: btw fun news, my G19 has started boot looping on a regular basis again, clearly something is loose in there :)
<Azelphur> only it doesn't loop any more, it just restarts and reconnects so it's not as annoying
<Azelphur> woot woot, just nuked a botnet :D
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: oh?
<Azelphur> sebsebseb: my friend got infected with a botnet, I grabbed the code off his machine and investigated, found a vulnerability and disabled the entire botnet.
<sebsebseb> or just his computer as part of it?
<Azelphur> nah, the infections on peoples machines are useless now
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: surely they should have a re install of an OS, if been in one of those as well?
<Azelphur> sebsebseb: I mean, I disabled the entire botnet, all the peoples machines that were infected everywhere are fixed
<Azelphur> about 150 machines
<sebsebseb> how do you know you disabled everyone's ?
<Azelphur> because I took out the C&C and it has no update mechanism
<sebsebseb> C means?
<Azelphur> command and control
<sebsebseb> C&C
<Azelphur> it receives instructions from a server, the address is hardcoded, I got that server taken down
<Azelphur> so the botnet is dead
<sebsebseb> taken down how?
<Azelphur> contacted the host
<sebsebseb> oh ok
<Azelphur> hehe
<sebsebseb> found out where the ip address was or whatever, and contacted the host I guess
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: so your friend has a Mac that got infected :d, uh  I mean uh Windows
<Azelphur> yea, my friend is on Windows and got hit by a java driveby attack
<sebsebseb> java driveby attack?
<Azelphur> lol
<sebsebseb> I read about a
<sebsebseb> some malware recently that
<sebsebseb> can infect Windows, Mac OS X, and Windows
<sebsebseb> using untrusted certificates and the Java plugin it seems
<sebsebseb> Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux, that was meant to say above
<Azelphur> yea, I heard about that, not really concerned :)
<sebsebseb> however I also read that  what it sends to Mac's, is made for the old Macs, the non Intel
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: what did you mean by driveby I meant above
<sebsebseb> I know what Java is :d
<Azelphur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive-by_download
<sebsebseb> and I know what an attack is when talking computers as well or otherwise
<sebsebseb> oh ok so that's what a drive by is
<sebsebseb> thanks :)
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: Going to OGGCamp by any chance?
<Azelphur> nope
<sebsebseb> I haven't been before, but plan to go this year
<sebsebseb> and if so, I'll probably request to do a talk :D
<Azelphur> cool :)
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: yeah got  a distro  to help promote :)
<sebsebseb> no not Ubuntu
<Azelphur> ah :)
<sebsebseb> directhex: will be an expensive weekend  if going, but got the money
<sebsebseb> uh wrong person
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: ^
<Azelphur> hehe
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: I guess I am not the only night person around here, or your not in UK for example
<Azelphur> nah, I'm a night person
<sebsebseb> yeah same here
<sebsebseb> ,but sometimes got to sleep at night really
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> been working on conky today too, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/July/2012-07-13-230914_1366x768_scrot.png
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: anyway I like  being awake at this time of year, as it's getting light early :d
<Azelphur> hehe
<sebsebseb> so in about two hours from now that
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: or do you mean yesterday :d  I mean it's only been Saturday  here in UK for a bit over three hours now :d
<Azelphur> true, technically yesterday :D
<sebsebseb> conky yeah that's a nice little program
<sebsebseb> but well  have had it installed in distros, and open, and that's it really
<sebsebseb> let's have a look at your screenshot
<sebsebseb> had it installed in distros before above I meant to put
<Azelphur> hehe
<sebsebseb> yeah that looks quite inteesting
<sebsebseb> your screenshot
<Azelphur> ty :)
<sebsebseb> Unity looks nice in it as well :d  however every time I try out  Ubuntu since uhmm 2009/2010 I remember why I don't like Ubuntu that much anymore
<Azelphur> haha
<sebsebseb> actually I got Ubuntu 12.04 installed on here as well, but will hardly ever boot that up
<sebsebseb> I still try out Ubuntu final versions, and that's about it, since used it for years as my distro from the secnod release in 2005
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: Unity and Gnome Shell yeah,  they can  look so nice in screenshots and such, but then when actually using can be a bit hmm, know what I mean?
<Azelphur> sebsebseb: seems fine to me at least on my netbook
<Azelphur> on my PC not so much, unity disagrees with lots of screens
<sebsebseb> what UNity you mean?
<sebsebseb> Unity is a intersting project from a technical point of view, since it took features I didn't like as Gnome 2 patches in  Ubuntu 9.04, 9.10 and 10.04,  put in an actsaul interface with other stuff as well, for example and so on
<Azelphur> :)
<sebsebseb> also Unity was oringally going to be for netbooks only,  the 10.10 version was aimed at netbooks only, but could be run on a desktop as well with Ubuntu or Lubuntu that was interesting :)
<sebsebseb> so yeah it's meant to work quite well on net books
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: most other distros won't support it though at this time, for various reasons, depending on distro
<Azelphur> :)
<sebsebseb> Unity is ok, but not really aimed at me,  I can see why quite a lot of non technical users may like it though.
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> that's something I like about Ubuntu, it's tailored for non technical users, but you can take it as far as you like
<Azelphur> my Ubuntu is obviously not very standard :)
<sebsebseb> for me Unity when I try it is, just really a dock down the left,  and the  way it shows icons, with some other features,  and a search feature, and that's about it really,  GNOME Shell is like that for me as well, but out of the two, I much prefer GNOME Shell :)
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: sure,  but I can think of quite a few other distros, that are rather user friendly for new users as well, in cerrtain ways, much more so than Ubuntu or Mint as well really
<Azelphur> sebsebseb: like?
<Azelphur> I don't think that can be the case really, user base is one of the most important factors of ease of use
<sebsebseb> comunity is one thing, but a lot of the smaller distros, have very good communites as well :)
<sebsebseb> not as big as Ubuntu's by a long way though
<sebsebseb> or Mint's even
<Azelphur> size is important for hardware testing
<sebsebseb> hardware testing hmm
<sebsebseb> well yes distros do hardware support differnetly here and there
<sebsebseb> ,but there are like upstream standards for stuff to do with that a bit more, certain things will be more standardised across distros, which is good :)
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: by the way even distros, with quite small development teams, can come out with quite impressive releases, and oh I know
<sebsebseb> however yeah the more people the better really in general :)
<sebsebseb> when it comes to development
<Azelphur> yea, I liked bodhi
<sebsebseb> right, but that's an Ubuntu based distro
<sebsebseb> I maybe should have been more clear
<sebsebseb> I meant distributions that aren't based on another distro
<sebsebseb> or that were, but are a proper fork of
<Azelphur> ah :)
<sebsebseb> and as  a result ones that don't have another distro as their upstream for packages for example,   so yep that's Mint out as well for example, since they got Ubuntu as upstream or Debian,  however in the case of Mint,  they do some quite impressive interface stuff now days really.  Altough I haven't tried Cinnamon just yet saying that, but Mate yep :).
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: oh loads of distros can be made, with not htat much effort, that are based on Ubuntu, and well yes loads have been made as a result
<sebsebseb> forks of distros, or starting a distro 100% from scratch,  now that's another story, and the quite impressive stories :d
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> elementaryOS is better than mint
<sebsebseb> for example the distro I contribute to do  doing community stuff, is a fork of another distro,  so they had to do nearly everything them selves, when it came to making the distro itself, but of course they had to set up their own iinfrastructe and all that as well,  and it 's all 100% community everyone is a volunteer and all that, but well I didn't come here to promote it.  However it's also one of the distributions with a nice graphical control
<sebsebseb> centre,  which makes it  rather user friendly for beginners to expereinced Desktop Linux users.  I wonder why distros such as Ubuntu and Mint are still lacking something like that?
<ali1234> it depends on your definition of "nice"
<sebsebseb> that was for Azelphur
<ali1234> i can't think of a distro that has a better one than the one in gnome
<sebsebseb> as for elementaryOS yeah that's meant to be quite a good one as well, but again it's Ubuntu based
<sebsebseb> like Mint
<sebsebseb> ali1234: I can think of a few :d
<sebsebseb> plus they have the one that's in GNOME as well of course
<ali1234> i can think of plenty of worse ones
<sebsebseb> looks liike we got another night owl here :d  ali1234
<Azelphur> ali1234: I killed a bitcoin botnet :D
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: hmm or maybe your in USA or something, by the looks of your host name
<sebsebseb> uh for ali1234
<Azelphur> sebsebseb: obvious vhost is obvious
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: bitcoin one hmm?  I read some stuff about bitcoin an alternative way to pay for stuff or whatever, and meant to be quite good, but also not that popular yet
<Azelphur> sebsebseb: yea, I'm big into bitcoin.
<sebsebseb> right, but  the botnet had something tod o with bitcoin?
<ali1234> have you seen what happen to solidcoin? i find this hilarious
<sebsebseb> whatever that is
<Azelphur> ali1234: what happened?
<ali1234> price crash. now worth less than litecoins
<ali1234> and solidcoin 3 is 2 months late
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> well nobody sane invested in it anyway, solidcoin was made by a retard
<ali1234> and how about that ponzi pirate guy?
<ali1234> what's up with that??
<Azelphur> don't start on that dude I have like Â£4000 with him
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> LOLWTF
<ali1234> cash out NAO
<Azelphur> he isn't a ponzi :p
<ali1234> HAHAHA
<ali1234> ok, if you say so :)
 * Azelphur crosses fingers
<Azelphur> ali1234: I did take a huge payout outta that account recently, so he is legit so far
<ali1234> just the interest?
<ali1234> no.
<Azelphur> I put in 400B and left it for a while
<Azelphur> then I took 400 out again, then I dumped 100 back in
<Azelphur> currently got 483.98 in there
<Azelphur> plus a bunch of other peoples money via me
<ali1234> wow. that's an incredibly bad idea if i ever heard one...
<Azelphur> pfft
<ali1234> just ask yourself this question: if he has this amazing system for getting such incredibly high return, why does he still need other people's money?
<Azelphur> because he's making more than 7% on everyone elses money, and on his money too
<ali1234> that's not a good answer
<Azelphur> ali1234: why not?
<Azelphur> your question is pretty much the same for banks
<ali1234> banks don't pay interest anywhere near what he does
<Azelphur> the fact is making 1% on a huge amount of money is better than making 8% on a small amount
<Azelphur> yea, that's because they pocket it all haha
<ali1234> no it isn't
<ali1234> to both
<Azelphur> you can't pull 7% on such large amounts of money though, obviously
<Azelphur> but banks are continually investing in startups and taking decent rates home
<Azelphur> much more than your getting paid.
<ali1234> no they aren't
 * Azelphur shrugs
<ali1234> that's not what banks do
<popey> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> might bring wife and kids to the pub this afternoon
<popey> AlanBell, do you know if they have a kids menu?
 * popey spies new mono stuff from directhex in his updates
<directhex> popey: le security update?
<popey> dunno, bazillion libmono things
<popey> (not a problem)
<directhex> popey: looks like canonical security haven't made any uploads for security yet... you using badgerports.org? i put the security upoad in there
<popey> yes
<directhex> well, there you go then!
<directhex> ( http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2012/CVE-2012-3382.html )
<AlanBell> popey: not sure, but I can find out a bit later
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<christel> morning
<christel> popey: the mulberry? they do indeed have a kids menu! :)
<brobostigon> morning christel
<christel> hello brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> not sure whether or not I will make it to the mulberry
 * christel gasps
<christel> but but
<dogmatic69> o/
 * StevenR wonders if a company's requirement for a "Major Incident Manager" is a good thing or a bad thing 
<AlanBell> christel: I will try and join you there, but might not make it for 4pm
<StevenR> (no idea what the company is - job posting just says "Financial Services")
<christel> *nod*
<christel> :)
 * AlanBell rearranges stuff
<AlanBell> popey: christel: looks like I will be at the mulberry, with family
<popey> cool
<christel> woo
<Monotoko> Afternoon fellas
<popey> yay, hugo is coming to the pub too
<AlanBell> filbert has a spare ticket popey
<popey> hugo has one :)
<AlanBell> cool
<Daviey> the RAT?
<AlanBell> Daviey: yeah
<Daviey> AlanBell: gah, i thought there were no spare tickets.. otherwise i'd have gone.
<Daviey> dammit.
<AlanBell> Daviey: you have 4 hours to get here ;)
<popey> the spare is because czajkowski is ill AIUI
<popey> so you'd have to be filberts uhm..
<popey> yes, that's the word
<Daviey> i'd take it like a man
<Daviey> next time, i am on it, even if i need to kill.
<czajkowski> popey: spare is gone
<czajkowski> bryn is going
<popey> ahhh
<popey> cool
<psutton> hello#
<AlanBell> czajkowski: that is great
<AlanBell> czajkowski: but you need to not be ill next time!
<christel> i will be a few minutes late as need to grab 1 x Dave2 from north camp and he gets in at 3:57
<popey> ttfn
<AlanBell> yay, Dave2
<bigcalm_laptop> Ahoy
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm_laptop
<bigcalm_laptop> Hi brobostigon
<bigcalm_laptop> Almost time for burgers, trains and ale!
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Choo choo!
<Seeker`> protip: Thumbs and fans don't go well together
<Aerodynamic> Hello, Can I get some assitance with a boot issue?
<penguin42> Aerodynamic: This isn't a help channel, see #ubuntu for that - but we're friendly and bored - what's up?
<Aerodynamic> Are you wanting me to go there?
<penguin42> Aerodynamic: Possibly best, but go on - ask your question
<Aerodynamic> Okay, Well. I will give more details if needed. But I installed directly to the hard-drive into dual-boot with windows. (My family is unwilling to switch from windows so that was the only option.) It worked yesterday. But now when I select Ubuntu I get a Grub prompt
<penguin42> when you say a grub prompt, what exactly do you see?
<Aerodynamic> A screen with a black background that says, GRUB >>_                               Or something like that. Then what I type in. It also says that if I press tab it will give me a list of possible commands. And commands are things like, submenu, boot, linux, and other things.
<penguin42> Aerodynamic: Hmm ok, that sounds like for some reason Grub has lost it's config file that should normally give you a menu and stuff
<Aerodynamic> I could give you some details that might tell you why. My mother was on the computer. She was annoyed by a program that caused a pop-up in her windows user whenever she logged in. A program called 4Sync that was completely useless I installed. I planned on Un-Installing but hadn't got around to it yet. So I went ahead and started the un-install process. I look back at the computer screen while she still had the computer in her
<Aerodynamic> I saw a screen with a black background. With some white text. She pressed enter without me even seeing what the screen said and a great bunch of text scrolled down the screen.
<Aerodynamic> Looked like a normal command prompt screen only without possible commands. Just displayed text. This was after I only started the un-install process. From the normal GUI. I look back and that is what I see..... So she eventually booted back up and everything went as normal until this morning when I tried booting up with Linux and I got this command prompt
<Aerodynamic> The one I described
<penguin42> Aerodynamic: hmm, a bit odd - that almost sounds like a grub menu followed by a linux boot with out the splash screen/failsafe mode - but then that shouldn't break grub next time
<Aerodynamic> If it says anything when I look in the Grub folder it is empty. But this is when I view my ubuntu folder from windows.
<penguin42> Aerodynamic: If I was trying to fix this, I'd boot off the Ubuntu install CD, mount the hard drive partitions, and reinstall grub
<Aerodynamic> The issue is that I didn't use a Live CD. I installed from wubi.. Which unfortunately was my only option.
<penguin42> hmm, I don't know anything about wubi, and if you're using wubi it makes me think perhaps your problem is different
<Aerodynamic> Its done this on two computers already. Its quite annoying
<brobostigon> thats wubi for you, it is easy to break, considering how windows handles non-windows in the boot in the hdd.
<Aerodynamic> Yeah, They seem pretty greedy with holding people down to a windows machine
<brobostigon> ok, nexus7 or playbook ?
<penguin42> definitely not playbook
<brobostigon> i would like qnx from the playbook, on the nexus7 hw.
<brobostigon> that isnt unless, android has moved along, that much, that it would beat qnx, since android 2.3
<penguin42> 2.3 is a long time ago
<brobostigon> true, but it is the last version, i have had enough time with, to be able to compare against.
<brobostigon> also for the nexus, is the spec is higher. and system updates are directly by google, insted of at the descration of other ouside companies.
<brobostigon> also android has more sw choice.
<BigRedS> why do you want qnx?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i just seems atrractive, from what i have used of it, and read about it.
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... popey getting p'g on a RAT, alanbell getting stuffed with oversized burgers,,,, time for some fun?
<SuperEngineer> *p'd
<AlanBell> choo choo
<brobostigon> slurp :)
 * SuperEngineer takes the opportunity of it being so quiet here to go: zzzzzzzzzzzzz [s'ok - nobody's watching]
<brobostigon> lol
<SuperEngineer> damn - I woke someone up!
<brobostigon> :) hehe
<penguin42> shhhhh
<SuperEngineer> ok, while we're all awake - why does Alien Arena trigger a temperature alarm on the CPU not the GPU!!!
 * SuperEngineer slaps wrist for playing games not working ;)
<penguin42> well - is the CPU working flat out?
<SuperEngineer> [should have looked for "Beer Train" game... only, trouble is all the admins have nicked it
<SuperEngineer> no - I have an "early" alarm set at 70 [real high is 80 - critical at 90]
<penguin42> laptop or desktop?
<SuperEngineer> plenty of safety left - just surprised the GPU [nvidia] wasn't doing more of the work]
<SuperEngineer> Pendulum: desktop [old Dell dimension with a couple of added goodies]
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: desktop [old Dell dimension with a couple of added goodies]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well I don't know the innards of the game, but if you're cooling isn't great then perhaps the heat from the GPU is stopping the cooling on the on the CPU being that great?
<SuperEngineer> [sorry Pendulum]
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - check out the nickname - SuperEngineer has only recently airdusted and checked all ok ;)
<SuperEngineer> as in... Super
<SuperEngineer> [otherwise I would use Supper] ;)
<penguin42> could try profiling it to see where your time is going, but it doesn't surprise me that a game uses the CPU as well as the GPU a lot
<SuperEngineer> me neither - but I just wish nVidia would take more of the load [wishful thinking only]
<SuperEngineer> [still - the game does do quite a lot for an old machine to be coping with
 * MartijnVdS installs ICS on his old Nexus One
<MartijnVdS> after *shudder* repartitioning the flash
<SuperEngineer> ooops did I say game? [in case any bosses listening in - I meant heavy workload of workstuff only!]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://xkcd.com/303/
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: darn - caught me out!  ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: don't worry, I'm a coder myself ;)
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<MartijnVdS> anyway
<MartijnVdS> ICS seems to work!
<AlanBell> hiya
<AlanBell> still on a train
<AlanBell> slighrly intoxicated now
<brobostigon> choochoo
<brobostigon> lol :)
<brobostigon> hi AlanBell
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33906036/2012-07-14%2016.01.18.jpg I think we can fix it.
<dogmatic69> ebay: "like new, minor scratches on the lid"
<Azelphur> haha
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: you shot it to pieces?
<Azelphur> nah, my friends dad did
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> in the uk?
<Azelphur> Canda
<Azelphur> +a
<dogmatic69> thought that blue stuff in the background was a bit strange
<Azelphur> I've got this really old laptop and I'm trying to Lubuntu it, but none of the live cds seem to work, it drops to busybox and says "(initramfs) Unable to find a medium containing a live file system"
<Azelphur> I've tried this with two different 10.04 LTS disks, and a 12.04 LUbuntu, 8.04 KUbuntu worked however
<Azelphur> oO, I typed exit and it kernel panic'd
<Azelphur> lol
<directhex> moo.
<Azelphur> moo
<Azelphur> so, got his laptop in busybox again, I can't find the cd drive anywhere in /dev.
<Azelphur> this*
<Azelphur> this is really weird, it's booting from CD and yet there's no CD drive in /dev at all from what I can see
<BigRedS> Azelphur: that's not *that* uncommon
<BigRedS> all it means is that teh BIOS can find the CD drive but the kernel can't
<Azelphur> I think I might have found it, it may be /dev/sg0
<Azelphur> but I can't get it to mount :(
<BigRedS> sg0 might well point at it, but sg* is for esoteric and custom featuresets
<BigRedS> so not mounting
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> suggestions?
<BigRedS> Can the hardware boot off USB?
<Azelphur> no
<BigRedS> alternatively stick teh hdd in something else, install, then put it back
<BigRedS> other than that, I don't know
<Azelphur> that could work
<Azelphur> good idea
<BigRedS> you might be able to create a block /dev/thingie for it, but I wouldn't know where to start
 * Azelphur steals mums laptop \o/
<BigRedS> ah, cool
<BigRedS> haha
<Azelphur> oh wait, this is gonna be IDE
<Azelphur> hmm
 * Azelphur tries some things
<Azelphur> woot, got it mounted on my PC via some cheapo USB chinese adapter
<Azelphur> now to virtualbox passthru and install
<penguin42> sigh, reminds me I need to fix my dads machine - it did an update the other day and now doesn't get into grub
<Laney> what update?
<penguin42> that, I've not figured out yet
<Laney> well, you should. and then you must file a bug and tag it regression-update
<Laney> regressions in -updates are a very serious matter
<Laney> (unless it turns out to be something you did, of course)
<penguin42> indeed, 1st I need to find out what the heck's going on - I tried a chroot'd update-grub and that hasn't helped
<penguin42> Laney: Hmm not at all obvious, it had a kernel update at the time it failed, which I guess means it did a grub-update, but it's last grub dpkg update had occurred at the same time as it got it's last kernel update
<penguin42> but that kernel works fine
<penguin42> hmm, working - I think the only thing I can see is that it was the 1st grub update after changing graphics cards - shrug, configured grub into text mode and we're OK
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-15
<christel> hoho
<christel> ho
<penguin42> hohoho?
<Azelphur> woot, got this ancient charity laptop booting Lubuntu, summary: shits fast
<christel> absolutely!
<christel> <- santa claus!
<christel> \o/
<Azelphur> it'd be cool if the touchpad, wifi or ethernet worked, but one thing at a time xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: What is it ?
<Azelphur> It's a compaq presario 900
<Azelphur> running an upgrade atm, hopefully some of the bugs will be fixed in updates \o/
<penguin42> yeuch
<Azelphur> this is so fast it's tempting to use it on my desktop
<christel> the ubuntuuk real ale train wotsit was AMAZING fun! <3
<Azelphur> lol just stumbled upon a FAQ about Linux on hp.com
<Azelphur> "How do I open Windows with Linux?" ...is this seriously a FAQ
<Azelphur> hmm yea, this doesn't look good
<Azelphur>  /proc/bus/input/devices reports one device, the keyboard.
<Azelphur> even though this is a laptop with a touchpad
<soreau> christel: ale train?
<christel> yesss
<christel> twasWONDERFUL
<christel> Gooood morning
 * czajkowski hugs christel 
 * christel hugs czajkowski <3
<czajkowski> christel: have fun last night
<christel> yes! it was such a good night! shame you didn't make it!
<jussi> oh hai christel!
<christel> hai hai jussi :)
<jussi> and czajkowski
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> one of my chickens seems to have just dropped dead :(
<jussi> AlanBell: :(
<jussi> AlanBell: you gave them a windows cd, right? :S
<christel> oh no :(
<AlanBell> jussi: they have had an ubuntu server CD since kubuntu CDs stopped
<jussi> lol
<jussi> can we blame the server peoples then?
<jussi> :D
<czajkowski> christel: trust me I was gutted to not be there :(
<czajkowski> AlanBell: oh no :(
<AlanBell> I just let them out and they walked over to the patio and Chocolate just flopped down and died
<jussi> :(
<czajkowski> AlanBell: most odd
 * christel hugs AlanBell 
<christel> at least that's sunday roast sorted i guess
<christel> :x
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
 * AlanBell just broke the hoover too
<AlanBell> today is not going well
 * brobostigon also broke his hair brush aswell.
 * popey gets a restorative egg sandwich and tea
<christel> i am not sure that you're supposed to try hoover up chickens
<brobostigon> could be an interesting feather removal method.
<AlanBell> ;)
<christel> i have lost The Spider
<Myrtti> HI ALANBELL AND POPEY AND CHRISTEL AND BIGCALM AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO WERE AT RAT. HOPE YOU DON'T HAVE MUCH HEADACHE
<Myrtti> :-P
<christel> haha
<popey> :D
<SuperEngineer> http://tinyurl.com/d5e5k26  -  made I laugh ;)
<popey> \o/
 * popey is bugfixing
<buzz_> o/ popey
<popey> yo
<SuperEngineer> popey: stop stamping on bugs - then you won't feel "guilted" into superglue-ing them back together ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...& bug fixing with a hangover?  ooo - now that's a brave popey
<popey> :)
<popey> its only a bash script, not too hard :)
<whiterain> hi guys. i recently installed ubuntu 12.04 which is working fine on my 64 bit. installed gnome shell from synaptic which was error free. when i reboot i choose gnome but it goes to the old classic life. it never boots up with gnome shell. i have a 11.10 partition on which gnome shell is working fine.can any oen help
<whiterain> old classic gnome desktop*
<whiterain> old classic gnome desktop*
<SuperEngineer> just tried gnome-shell [was looking for an excuse] - did you try pressing the ,super. aka windows key? did you select "gnome 2d" not "gnome"?
<SuperEngineer> [& yes I'm now back on Unity desktop - think this is better - experiment over
<SuperEngineer> ...and so much better & improved session type selection, used to be messy - restore back to Unity ["Ubuntu"] was perfect.  well done devs.
<whiterain> SuperEngineer, when should i press those keys
<SuperEngineer> whiterain: first -ensure you select Gnome, not Gnome 2d.  secoundly once desktop loaded, then press the Super [a.k.a. Windows] key.
<SuperEngineer> & 3rd, if you're like me, switch back to Ubuntu desktop ;)
<whiterain> SuperEngineer, yes i chose gnome and not 2d. it has gone to classic desktop now. can i press super key now
<SuperEngineer> worth a try
<whiterain> SuperEngineer, i couldnt use unity at all. i tried it several times and was about to give up on ubuntu. :-(
<czajkowski> whiterain: what was your issue with it ?
<SuperEngineer> then try Xubuntu or Lubuntu... download ISO & run from live CD to give yourself a taster.
<whiterain> czajkowski, are u usking me about the unity. i did not feel it comfirtable
<brobostigon> my question would be, is gnome-shell requires similer opengl acceleration like unity, does said machine support this?
<czajkowski> whiterain: yes but in what way were you uncomfortable with unity ?
<czajkowski> just curious
<whiterain> SuperEngineer, i have been using gnome shell alright on ubuntu 11.10 for past 6 months now. just wanted to use 12.04 with gnome shell
<SuperEngineer> whiterain: at first - like many others - neither did I.  Now I likey very much
<greenian2> im using gnome shell on a net book running 12.04 fine
<czajkowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA9EHaNc2VI  us a great video done by popey explaining unity
<czajkowski> very useful
<whiterain> greenian2, i have installed gnome shell but no use. when i boot it goes to the old panel type desktop envi
<brobostigon> unity is good on my mumbuntu machine, unity is good. however for me, on my eeepc, ubuntu tends to be too heavy and so does unity, sometimes for my eeepc. so i use gnome-shell, which works alittle better. but i gave ubuntu on sdcard, and play with both.
<SuperEngineer> czajkowski: good call
<greenian2> the ubuntu symbol top left of the sign inn pannel left click and choose gnome
<whiterain> czajkowski, i have a switchable graphics on my laptop. it kept frozing every time when i used initially. computer heats up so quickly. and as a noob i fell apart
<czajkowski> whiterain: interesting as most new people I've met using it have found it great and dont notice much of a difference and love it
<whiterain> greenian2, i am on gnome desktop now
<czajkowski> SuperEngineer: indeed it's useful and I think more people watching it will learn how to use unity
<greenian2> ok
<whiterain> greenian2, but unfortunately its the old classical type
<jacobw> awesomewm
<ali1234> it means your computer does not support the accelerated graphics
<whiterain> greenian2, i did what ever u said but i cant see gnome anywhere there
<brobostigon> my mum said she likes the app icons, in the unity sidebar, and how they change, depending on what happens with the app.
 * jacobw is suprised ssh+irssi works so well on 3g
<whiterain> ali1234, i have two cards. its switchable graphics..linux cant manage switching it..i know about it. but ubuntu 11.10 is working with gnome shell on the same laptop
<brobostigon> gwubber being a good example.
<brobostigon> gwibber*
<greenian2> whiterain have you downloaded gnome shell ?
<whiterain> greenian2, yes i have installed gnome shell
<jacobw> unity2d makes more sense than gnome-shell
<greenian2> sorry i dont know why you cant see it on sign inn then
<whiterain> greenian2, i can see that when i sign in. i choose gnome when i sign in. but the desktop env remains the classic one
<whiterain> with the panel
<SuperEngineer> whiterain: press the Super key [it should be called the SuperEngineer key]  ;)
<whiterain> SuperEngineer, when do u want me to press super key?
<whiterain> SuperEngineer, whe n i login ?
<SuperEngineer> when you're at the Gnome desktop - if your graphics can handle it - you will have gnome-Shell - maybe it can't?
<whiterain> SuperEngineer, but gnome shell works fine on 11.10 on the same laptop
<ali1234> how it it useful to keep repeating that
<ali1234> it clearly doesn't work fine on 12.04
<SuperEngineer> whiterain: ok - me confused then - thought of a bug hunt?
<SuperEngineer> or a bug report even
<SuperEngineer> [assuming you have *restarted your pooter since install?}
<whiterain> SuperEngineer, oh yes.
<SuperEngineer> Gnome-Shell requires a restart  -  did I/you forget to mention that whiterain
<whiterain> SuperEngineer, oh yes i have restarted the computer several times now.
<SuperEngineer> ok
<SuperEngineer> bug hunt / bug report it is then?
<brobostigon> it might be a graphics driver regression that has killed opengl acceleration ?
<whiterain> do u think its alright to file a bug abt that then
<brobostigon> i would, unless you can find something that describes it already, in which case, add onto said bug.
<whiterain> tx guys
<greenian2> sorry im back fuse triped
<SuperEngineer> just downloaded the popey unity video. hey, popey - your rubbish folder needs emptying ;)
<SuperEngineer> darn weather forecast - why can't they just pretend & put up sunny forecast for once!
 * SuperEngineer hunts for open source weather changing application
<brobostigon> lol :)
<SuperEngineer> So when do we stop saying the "super key" & officially rename it the SuperEngineer"
<SuperEngineer> "kety
<SuperEngineer> *key
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Akademy Group Photo - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4589
<popey> :)
<d3ngar> Hi there
<d3ngar> I was wondering if someone could help me with the administration of postfix?
<d3ngar> I followed the manual here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PostfixCompleteVirtualMailSystemHowto
<d3ngar> And I added some info in the MySQL tables
<d3ngar> As far as I thought would be needed
<raphasaurus> hi
<Flashtek> d3ngar: is there any more to your story.. or is that it ?
<d3ngar> Flashtek: thanks for replying
<d3ngar> I cannot access my mail now
<d3ngar> I have tried to set-up the mail server in thunderbird to the best of my knowledge, but I don't get anywhere
<d3ngar> By the looks of it, I can send mail to the server though
<d3ngar> It doesn't bounce, I don't get a derlivery failure
<SuperEngineer> just had had another look at Gnome shell - sorry Gnomies - but a big "yuk! nah, not for me"
<ali1234> who watches F1? i've got a question
<ali1234> http://www.play-auto.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/starting-grid.jpg
<ali1234> at the start of the race they all line up in the starting grid, yeah?
<ali1234> they also measure lap times on each lap
<ali1234> so on the first lap, does the lap timer start when the light goes green, or does it start when that driver crosses the start/finish line the first time?
<SuperEngineer> ali1234:  timing starts with the very start of the race.  there are timing sections [usual 3] around the lap
<SuperEngineer> lap time ends at the finish line
<ali1234> so the first lap is actually "longer" if you're at the back
<ali1234> in terms of lap times
<SuperEngineer> yup
<ali1234> ok
<AlanBell> interesting question, I guess it would be when the drivers individually cross the start line, so the back of the grid will get a faster first lap
<ali1234> thanks
<ali1234> AlanBell: that's what i thought too but apparently not
<SuperEngineer> & also if you finish last ;)
<AlanBell> because they are going heaps faster over the line than the front of the grid would
<ali1234> that's true
<SuperEngineer> so alls fair in love & F1
<SuperEngineer> [timing sections are the key point]
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7cZFHWbaow
<ali1234> notice my lap timer doesn't start until you cross the line
<ali1234> that was really annoying to implement
<SuperEngineer> start line = time start - finish line = time end, the cars at the back [theoretically] croos the start line faster but have no real advantage
 * SuperEngineer removes his Murray Walker hat now
<ali1234> so the clock does start when they cross the line?
<ali1234> now i'm confused
<AlanBell> yeah, race start is when the lights go green, for first sector times it is when they cross the line
<ali1234> cool so i did it right
<SuperEngineer> yup - each car individually timed through on board telemetry kit
 * SuperEngineer re-removes his Murray Walker hat now
<AlanBell> ali1234: that looks outstandingly good
<ali1234> thanks :)
<brobostigon> is it possible within apache2, to have it record all access in one file, including vhosts in the normal access.log insted of seperatly ?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> there is a config line to specify log file
<brobostigon> ali1234: including vhosts everything in one single file?
<brobostigon> ali1234: let me look.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: yeah CustomLog /path/to/log Combined
<BigRedS> replace 'Combined' with the format you want
<BigRedS> or just don't make that config anywhere and it all goes to /var/log/apache2/other-vhosts-access-log
<BigRedS> or similar
<ali1234> yeah no idea what the defaults are
<BigRedS> it *doesn't* now all default to /var/log/apache2/access.lg
<BigRedS> that's only 000-default now, by default
<ali1234> i use that because i wanted separate logs for each vhost
<ali1234> i dunno why you would want anything else tbh
<BigRedS> we've a few people who have different vhosts that share logs
<BigRedS> mobile and non-mobile sites and suchlike
<BigRedS> some people do want crazy things
<BigRedS> the other-vhosts log is in a funny, non-Combined, format, though. Each line is prefixed with ServerName:port-
<BigRedS> (as in the server name and the port, not that literal string)
<brobostigon> there is a customlog line already there.
<BigRedS> if you remove it then your logs will go to the default log
<BigRedS> or you could point it at teh default log
<brobostigon> access.log which is what it already does.
<brobostigon> BigRedS: so if i specify the normal access.log in that line, it wont clash, and webaliser will be able to interpret the different vhosts?
<BigRedS> I don't know about webalizer, but Apache will be happy
<brobostigon> BigRedS: it just need to understand the different paths, ie, specified within said log.
<brobostigon> that they went to, ie, accessed.
<BigRedS> then it should be okay
<brobostigon> ok,
<BigRedS> it wont be able to discern between teh vhosts, though
<BigRedS> they'll all be in one graph
<brobostigon> ok, that isnt a solution then.
<BigRedS> what's teh actual problem you're trying to solve?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: webaliser can only interpret from one single log file, however i want it to include details of access of my vhosts, which apache returns to a seperate access log.
<BigRedS> so run it once against each log?
<BigRedS> have one log per vhost, and one cron job or whatever for each
<brobostigon> BigRedS: thus, there will be sperate log output files, to read, which i wanted to avoid, and have it all in one.
<BigRedS> well, usual is to have Documentroot /home/user/public_html and their logs in /home/user/logs/access_log
<BigRedS> but you can stick them wherever you like
<BigRedS> just use CustomLog <path> and that's where they'll go
<BigRedS> (make sure the dir exists or Apache will silently fail to start)
<BigRedS> also, worth adding whatever path you use to /etc/logrotate.d/apache so you don't run out of disk space
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i have docroot in /var/www and logroot in /var/log/apache2/
<BigRedS> for one vhost; didn't you want to have per-vhost logging?
<BigRedS> where are your vhosts' docroots?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: it seems to have all on its own, put all vhost logs, into one seperate file.
<BigRedS> still, it really doesn't matter. /var/log/apache2/<sitename>/access.log or /var/log/apache2/site.log
<BigRedS> yes, that's the new default
<brobostigon> BigRedS: there various levels inside /var/www
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i mean, the folders the vhosts refer to are in /var/www/
<BigRedS> okay, either way, Apache doesn't much care where you tell it to put its logs. It'll just do what you say. Make a directory and point it there.
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> BigRedS: thank you, i think i can work it out.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: cool. no worries
<BigRedS> I'll be around most of the evening if you have any problems
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - that ending up in the channel header: "it is out!!"... beginning to smell a bit stale /!\
<brobostigon> BigRedS: thank you, :)
 * daubers is knackered
 * BigRedS is disorientated
<BigRedS> working on call; get jet-lag without the holiday
<christel> hehe
<christel> popey \o/
<diplo> evening all
<stgraber> non/win 40
<stgraber> oops
<bigcalm_laptop> Ello :)
<christel> HELLOOOOO
 * christel tickles bigcalm_laptop 
 * bigcalm_laptop giggles and dreams of ale
<christel> mmmale
<popey> hey bigcalm_laptop
<bigcalm_laptop> Ello popey :)
<dwatkins> hooray, I have an mpd server running
<popey> oooh, bbc2 and bbc hd, Engineering Giants.. ripping apart a jumbo
<BigRedS> ooh
 * BigRedS adds to get_iplayer list
<BigRedS> that'll go in that directory of video files I never watch...
<MartijnVdS> what did I miss? :)
<MartijnVdS> what are you adding? :)
<popey> <popey> oooh, bbc2 and bbc hd, Engineering Giants.. ripping apart a jumbo
<MartijnVdS> oooh
<MartijnVdS> popey: I just watched an old (1982) TV program about technology, and the newfangled 'satellite TV' which was technically still illegal to watch from the Netherlands
<MartijnVdS> but they showed some decoded footage.. of your local airshow ;)
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://euscreen.eu/play.jsp?id=EUS_DE6CE7787CE047EDBA4BABC79BB9D344 from around  3:16
<popey> hah
<SuperEngineer> time to be a kid again - shrek coming up on Ch4
<SuperEngineer> woops Beeb3
<SuperEngineer> [kiddy prank - just getting in the mood]
<czajkowski> SuperEngineer: which one
<SuperEngineer> first simply called "Shrek"
<czajkowski> the best
<czajkowski> still think nemo is one of my favourite
<SuperEngineer> nah - no pussy cat with big eyes, no donkey - no shrek.... Shrek wins it for me
<BigRedS> my servers are all shrek characters :)
<BigRedS> q!
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... is Donkey server the noisiest?
<BigRedS> haha, donkey's the 'main' one, so yeah I suppose. Web, mail etc.
<BigRedS> Puss and Harold are fileservers, Swamp's a Xen HV, Gingy's a VM for expermentation
<BigRedS> There isn't actually a shrek any more
<BigRedS> that was the original :( Massive thing, hence being called shrek
 * czajkowski really hates top posting on oss lists/groups 
<czajkowski> sigh
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> you're one of *them*! :)
<czajkowski> BigRedS: i am indeed, but yuo're also one of *them* >:(
<BigRedS> am I?
<BigRedS> I don't top-post, I just don't get annoyed when other people do
<czajkowski> BigRedS: you top post :)
<Seeker`> Because you see the answer before the question
<Seeker`> Why is top posting bad?
<czajkowski> because it's a pain when following a thread if you let a thread build up
<BigRedS> Seeker`: I think you're preaching at the choir here
<Seeker`> not preaching :P It really doesn't bother me either way. Just thought it was slightly humourous
<BigRedS> Ahh, I see
<christel> aaah.. glass of wine
 * czajkowski has a chinese and watching Ms Congeniality2
<jacobw> i need a new cloak
<gord> TIL: they make lion bar cereal now...
<christel> jacobw: a pink one?
<jacobw> that'd be fabulous, darling :p
<christel> :P
<czajkowski> oh I've eaten too much
<czajkowski> bleugh
<christel> aww
 * penguin42 offers czajkowski a waffer-thin mint
<brobostigon> could you create a sub-sub-domain, pointting at a apache vhost?
<gord> iirc anything before the first dot is just a unique subdomain, so foo.bar.com and foo.baz.bar.com are basically the same thing
<you-siry> hello
<you-siry> :)
<you-siry> i go to london
<you-siry> very excited:)
 * penguin42 only goes down to london very occasionally - I quite like it, I bet it's going to be busy in the next few weeks
<you-siry> first for me ^_^
<you-siry> i go for olympics?
<you-siry> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-08
<Byllida> hi
<Byllida> alanbell nigger
<dwatkins> o.O
<MooDoo> hello all
<dwatkins> hey MooDoo
<dwatkins> I was hoping to test this, but my FTTC connection at home is down :'( https://github.com/zpeters/speedtest #FirstWorldOfficeProblems
<MartijnVdS> Beer fans, I present to you: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/en/
<MartijnVdS> (well, my brothers present to you)
<directhex> i was gearing up to say "it's a lager, gasp, etc!", but an actual stout!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: yes, the Dark Roast is :)
<popey> MartijnVdS: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/en/our-beer/ click "visit the shop"
<popey> yet if you add to cart, you can go to the checkout, but you can't go to the "shop"
<MartijnVdS> popey: the shop only works on the Dutch part of the site atm
<popey> ah
<MartijnVdS> they're working on it
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Oyez! Oyez! Good morning all and happy Town Crier Day! :-D
<BigRedS> haha! There's a bit of irony in that day not being a well-known one
<JamesTait> Heheh. :)
<JohnRobert> anyone know if/where there is a linux outlaws channel?
<popey> #sixgun JohnRobert
<JohnRobert> thanks!
<popey> they're on a break at the moment
<JohnRobert> really, how come?
<popey> personal stuff
<JohnRobert> fair enough
<popey> its on their blog
<JohnRobert> I just started listening again
<popey> sixgun.org iirc
<JohnRobert> ta
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> hullo
<SuperMatt> y'all watch the tennis?
<brobostigon> no. bores me to death, football bores me to death aswell.
<DJones> SuperMatt: Yep, I enjoyed watching it
<DJones> brobostigon: +1 to the football though
<SuperMatt> me too
<SuperMatt> football is the most boring sport, I cannot comprehend it
<popey> SNOOZEBALL! RIGHT!?
<SuperMatt> I think it's because not a lot happens and the fans annoy me
<popey> etc
<SuperMatt> right
<popey> Morning btw
<SuperMatt> but tennis is exciting
<SuperMatt> yo
<popey> Yeah, found myself shouting YES! at the telly a bit much yesterday
<popey> might be due to the amount of crabbies I'd imbibed tho
<DJones> Was that 'YES' in Scottish accent?
<DJones> :)
<diplo> Oh dear, 1 to many yesterday popey ?
<diplo> :P
<popey> nah
<popey> just the right amount
<diplo> heh, I had 1, drove the boys to the beach yesterday.. was exhausted when we got back
<DJones> I a chuckle at Alex Salmond on the radio this morning, pretty much everybody commenting on Murray being the first Brit in 77 years to win the mens title, Salmond was more interested in it being the first Scot since 1896
<popey> did you see the nyt article?
<popey> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/sports/tennis/after-77-years-murray-and-england-rule.html?
<popey> they modified the title in the article and have eventually set a redirect from http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/sports/tennis/after-77-years-murray-and-england-rule.html? to http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/sports/tennis/after-77-years-murray-and-britain-rule.html?
<popey> silly rabbits
<dwatkins> https://www.google.com/ today has a game about the Roswell incident, which was 66 years ago today
<MooDoo> dwatkins: who cares about that, andy murray won ;) lol
<dwatkins> MooDoo: hehe, good point
<MooDoo> ;)
<dwatkins> Today I am being rescued from my humming neighbor by Pomplamoose.
<dwatkins> I hope there's going to be a Soundcloud app for the Ubuntuphone.
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> davmor2, o/
<davmor2> JamesTait: You're only happy to see me cause it means it's time for elevensise ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, hey, good idea!
<davmor2> See :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, you know I love you. ;)
<davmor2> haha, y u not say that when I break your hard work?
<MooDoo> morning favm
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka you sound happy to be somewhere with aircon I don't know why :)
 * popey tickles davmor2 
<davmor2> popey: blown raspberries makes me happier, I'm not ticklish :D
<davmor2> popey: how's things down soufff
<popey> warm
<popey> davmor2: https://twitter.com/popey/status/354160914473291776
<diplo> I'd love to be doing that popey
 * xnox will pop out to outdoor swimming pool @ lunch time =)
<popey> For swimming? ã
<xnox> popey: yeap.
<popey> I should get the paddling pool out again
<JohnRobert> what are people's thoughts on mint?
<Dave2> When I got back to my place last night at about 1AM my bedroom was ~30 degrees. It's a bit too warm.
<JohnRobert> as in the linux distro
<dwatkins> I still can't believe I survived the night with my window open...  in Edinburgh! ;)
<popey> JohnRobert: Insecure by design.
<JohnRobert> interesting
<JohnRobert> I'm looking for something like ubuntu just without the wackiness
<JohnRobert> eg strange gnome.. I don't want that, I want old style gnome
<JohnRobert> basically I want debian with the hardware support
<dwatkins> I started looking in to Debian and Crunchbang, but you can just switch window managers in Ubuntu.
<JohnRobert> perhaps xubuntu is the best way forward
<JohnRobert> debian works ok on my thinkpad t420s
<JohnRobert> still doesn't work properly >:/
<popey> ubuntu + apt-get install gnome-session-fallback
<popey> job done
<JohnRobert> for example, closing the lid doesn't suspend and I can't see an easy way to make it do that
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<JohnRobert> battery still seems to get eaten up etc..etc..
<jpds> JohnRobert: Alrighty, hang around in the past that noone's maintaining anymore.
<popey> Welcome to 2003
<JohnRobert> heh
<JohnRobert> yeah exactly
<JohnRobert> hence ubuntu
<popey> We'll still be here â»
<JohnRobert> just I stopped liking the direction ubuntu was heading a few years ago
<Dave2> Cinnamon is strange-gnome-but-not-that-strange
<davmor2> popey: I'd sit out on the balcony but it's south facing meaning either my laptop would melt or I would :)
<jpds> JohnRobert: And GNOME itself I suppose.
<Dave2> I'm sure there are extensions for strange-gnome proper
<JohnRobert> I'm stuck in an office
<JohnRobert> although it's fairly cool
<popey> davmor2: south facing here too
<popey> get an umbrella â»
<popey> heh strange-gnome
<popey> "Ubuntu Strange Edition"
 * diplo makes!
<jpds> "Ubuntu Dr. Strangelove Edition"
<davmor2> popey: it's a balcony the clue is in the title.  It's like 4-5 feet wide and has a roof.  I'll stick with my north facing off that nice and cool :)
<davmor2> popey: http://ubuntuone.com/1puKKnR803mFEhUZnwoOd9 top floor that is our balcony it's just wide enough for a small table and 2 chairs :)
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: put me down you don't know where I've been
<MooDoo> you love it davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: not in this heat :D
 * Dave2 sits in his air conditioned office.
<Dave2> What heat?
<MooDoo> Bhut Jolikia chilly, that's heat
<christel> Dave2: I AM SAT IN MY NON-ACed GARDEN STARING AT KEGS OF BEER WONDERING WHY I AM WORKING AND NOT DRINKING THEM BEFORE THEY GO FUNNY :(
<davmor2> christel: before they or you go funny?
<MooDoo> christel: didn't they all go at your barbie?
<christel> davmor2: they!
<Laney> oh no, they should be in a nice cool cellar
<christel> MooDoo: no! apparently it was slight overkill to estimate about 30 pints per head or something
<MooDoo> christel: PMSL lol ha ha hah a ha
<Dave2> I did my best yesterday
<MooDoo> Free pint for all Ubuntu users that visit christel ;)
<Dave2> I don't know how much I had to drink yesterday, but I didn't actually feel particularly drunk most of the time
<christel> Dave2: njan was saying this morning how impressed he was with your ability to constantly drink without appearing drunk!
<Dave2> I'm not quite sure how it worked
<christel> MooDoo: yus!
<Dave2> I felt a bit drunk at times
<christel> haha
<Dave2> But not proper-drunk, just a bit tipsy
<Dave2> I seemed to have some issues pronouncing some words but I'm sure that was just the heat
 * Dave2 nods.
<christel> i think that was because you were trying to read the norwegian medical dictionary out loud
<Dave2> Well, that certainly didn't help;
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<christel> morning!
<SuperMatt> 14 minutes of morning left
<SuperMatt> I'm very sleepy -.-
 * bigcalm tickles christel hello
<SuperMatt> I hope my hdd's finish syncing before bed time, I don't think I'll be able to cope with the heat of my PC being left on for one more night
<christel> hullu bigcalm :)
<diplo> ooh fun, my big boss just turned up unexpected
<diplo> First time I've met him in three years since joining the company
<popey> first three times I met "big boss" was in a pub
<diplo> heh, seems nice enough guy. Very down to earther and a lot more organsied than my MD
<stevenm_> Ukraine or United Kingdom? :D
<stevenm_> OK I guess english in the channel topic points at United Kingdom :D
<Laney> ÐÑ, Ð¼Ð¸ Ð±ÑÐ»Ð¸ Ð¿ÑÐ°ÐºÑÐ¸ÐºÑÑÑÐ¸Ð¼Ð¸.
<christel> twss
<dwatkins> no-one seems to use "GB" to refer to this part of the world.
<dwatkins> ...much to ISO 3166's disappointment, no doubt.
<dwatkins> It seems the Ukraine uses .ua
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1_alpha-2#UA
<bigcalm> Poor Finland is also stuck with .fi
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah but finlands is useful for giants.  http://giant.fi/fo/thumb/I_smell_the_blood_of_an_englishman ;)
<dwatkins> someone has http://f.fi/
<dwatkins> oops, http://if.fi/
<popey> I still want .custard
<SuperMatt> hidden custard?
<SuperMatt> or, tld
<SuperMatt> *oh
<SuperMatt> I wish I could have superma.tt, but that stuff's 'spensive
<davmor2> SuperMatt: popey just want re-runs of rhubarb and custard available 24/7 I'll tell you
<SuperMatt> but rhubarb and custard wasn't a tv program
<SuperMatt> it was only call roobarb
<popey> lies
<popey> (while it's true i refuse to accept it)
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I'm dyslexic so type it in as roo and spell check said it was wrong, damn you spell check
<SuperMatt> there was a show called Roobarb and Custard too, however I just like to point out when people are wrong
<davmor2> popey: still wants 24.7 re-runs of it
<SuperMatt> sure
<chatts> Hi, what's the best practice for getting Apache2 to run at boot time in Raring?
<popey> it should by default
<chatts> Doesn't seem to be!
<bigcalm> How did you install apache2?
<SuperMatt> sudo update-rc.d apache2 enable <- this is the command you'd use, but answer bigcalm first please
<chatts> bigcalm: sudo apt-get install apache2
<SuperMatt> it should have happened automatically
<SuperMatt> do you have S91apache2 listed in /etc/rc5.d?
<SuperMatt> and /etc/rc3.d
<chatts> SuperMatt: I tried - sudo update-rc.d apache2 enable - rebooted and it still wasn't running!
<popey> chatts: do you have a different webserver running on port 80 which is clashing with apache?
<popey> your /var/log/apache2 directory will have error logs indicating why apache2 may fail to start
<chatts> SuperMatt: Yes, listed in both directories.
<SuperMatt> chatts: check what popey has asked
<chatts> popey: It's a bare-bones Raring Vagrant box (http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/vagrant/raring/current/) so has very little on it, all I've done is install Apache2 to set-up a dev environment.
 * popey pokes Daviey 
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23222068 - good news everyone?
<chatts> Runlevel is at 2, if that helps.
<SuperMatt> did you get that by typing runlevel in the console?
<chatts> Yes.
<SuperMatt> ok, do you have S91apache2 in /etc/rc2.d?
<chatts> SuperMatt: Yes I do! Makes no sense at all...
<SuperMatt> I have *no* idea
<SuperMatt> I've never used vagrant
<SuperMatt> I don't try something to do the set up for me
<chatts> Ok, no worries, thanks anyway.
<bigcalm> chatts: as popey asked, is there anything in /var/log/apache2/error.log ?
<SuperMatt> I guess it could be a bad config
<bigcalm> chatts: does it apache work if you run: sudo service apache2 start ?
<chatts> bigcalm: Nothing out of the ordinary in the error log. Yes, it works then, just doesn't seem to kick in at boot time!
<SuperMatt> curios
<SuperMatt> curious
<SuperMatt> no harm in running apt-get install --reinsall apache2, I guess
<chatts> Tried a re-install and still get -> service apache2 status -> Apache2 is NOT running.
<chatts> Odd thing is, if I install MySQL, that runs at boot time!
<SuperMatt> peculiar
<SuperMatt> that's not how you spell that, but I'm leaving it at that
<chatts> Ha! No worries.
<SuperMatt> did you try reinstalling apache2?
<chatts> No sign of MySQL in /etc/rc2.d. I did try reinstalling and it didn't make any difference.
<SuperMatt> weird
<SuperMatt> I don't know what you've done, but it might be worth while to start again :/
<chatts> Yeahâ¦ So frustrating!
<MartijnVdS> chatts: Ubuntu uses upstart, the files in /etc/rc* tend to be for "show", and the real ones are in /etc/init/
<chatts> No sign of Apache2 in /etc/init/. mysql.conf is there though, which makes sense.
<SuperMatt> vagrant just seems to be a different way of doing lxc
<MartijnVdS> chatts: I don't have apache2 there either, you're right
<SuperMatt> not /etc/init/
<SuperMatt> it's /etc/init.d/
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: not for upstart scripts
<SuperMatt> ah, I see
<chatts> SuperMatt: pretty much, it's basically a Ruby API on top of VirtualBox (or another provider).
<SuperMatt> thing is, rc.d points to the init.d script
<SuperMatt> do you have apache2 in /etc/init.d?
<MartijnVdS> what does "apache2ctl configtest" say?
<SuperMatt> ah, apache2 hasn't been switched to upstart yet, that's why
<chatts> SuperMatt: yes, apache2 is in /etc/init.d, but isn't a symlink. Mysql is in there as a symlink to /lib/init/upstart-job?
<SuperMatt> apache2 doesn't have an upstart job yet, that's why that is
<SuperMatt> still
<SuperMatt> bit weird why it's not wokring
<MartijnVdS> chatts: what does the "apache2ctl configtest" say?
<chatts> MartijnVdS: Syntax is ok, I get a warning about not being able to fully qualify the server's domain name.
<MartijnVdS> just like mine
<MartijnVdS> chatts: do you have another httpd installed on port 80, so apache can't bind to that port?
<MartijnVdS> chatts: is there anything in /var/log/apache2/error.log?
<MartijnVdS> (or another error log file, if you have them)
<popey> hehe
<popey> the exact two questions I asked â»
<chatts> MartijnVdS: nope, nothing in the error.log. The only package I've installed is Apache, so no other servers running on that port.
<SuperMatt> KILL IT WITH FIRE
<SuperMatt> it's the only way
<MartijnVdS> chatts: could you still do "netstat -lptn" and put it on pastebin? :)
<MartijnVdS> (as root, or sudo netstat -lptn)
<chatts> netstat out put is here - http://pastebin.com/fU8GCZtw
<MartijnVdS> apache2 is running
<MartijnVdS> pid = 1855, port = 80
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: started by hand
<chatts> yeah, I start it manually, I can do the same after a reboot if you'd like?
<MartijnVdS> chatts: that should just work.. did you alter anything in the boot sequence (of apache, or of the system)?
<chatts> Nope, nothing at all! My only thought is that there is something up with the Vagrant box, I got it from here - http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/vagrant/raring/current/) - this morning.
<MartijnVdS> could be
<MartijnVdS> pre-installed images can be strange sometimes.. but shouldn't be
<chatts> My thoughts too. All I've done is create a Vagrant box from that image, and installed apache2.
<MartijnVdS> chatts: you're using it with virtualbox?
<chatts> I might try and image from a few weeks back and see if that does the same thing.
<chatts> Yes, VirtualBox.
 * bigcalm wants it to be 6pm so he can play more Trials Evolution
<bigcalm> Buying an xbox controller for use with games on Steam was a good move. And a heck of a lot cheaper than buying an Xbox
<chatts> I will try another image tomorrow. Thanks for your help guys, I need to make a move now.
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: tell everyone you're on CEST
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's 18:32 here
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: nope, I'm on BST :)
<bigcalm> Oh, I see
<bigcalm> Heh
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I mean, if Ireland can consider it: http://www.timeanddate.com/news/time/ireland-considers-cet.html
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it's discussed all of the time but never actioned. British like being different I think
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: British like having the "0" meridian and the time that belongs to it :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: the Netherlands is only CE(S)T because of Germany (WW2), otherwise we'd still be +19 minutes 8-)
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC%2B00:20
<mungbean_> evenin'
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> pip pip
<mungbean> wow that was quick
<mungbean> eveybody woke up
 * MartijnVdS writes a bit more on his future blog post
<mungbean> had an epic day off killing/evicting spiders and snails
<mungbean> from my shed
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: so you're snail/spider hitler now?
<mungbean> no i sent them to a better place
<mungbean> the municipal compost heap
<mungbean> oh poo, was just about to buy these for 6 quid niw they out of stock
<mungbean> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005A54XF8
<MartijnVdS> Only 4 left in stock.
<MartijnVdS> oh that's another reseller
<diddledan> yeah, but 20Â£
<mungbean> yeah rip off britain
<MartijnVdS> does anyone know how to generate an NT-Password hash on the command line?
<MartijnVdS> Google just tells me "How to install SAMBA"
<diddledan> MKNTPASSWDHASH.exe :-p
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  @ diddledan
<diddledan> although, 8.3 would probably mean it's MKNTPASS.exe
<MartijnVdS> .EXE then
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> we all know NT doesn't do security so you might as well plaintext it :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: true..
<diddledan> mungbean: that listing is weird - 2 collectible from 29.50, new for 19.97, shoddy quality used 39.66
<mungbean> been selling at 6 quid for couple of weeks
<diddledan> "Warning: Not suitable for children under 3 years. For use under adult supervision" <-- which adult in their right mind would let anyone touch their collection let alone be that a kid
<mungbean> went to a wedding on south coast at the weekend. no change of clothes, far from home
<mungbean> baby sitting on my lap, had a massive nappy explosing
<diddledan> eep
<mungbean> covered her back and everything
<diddledan> not nice
<diddledan> eww
<mungbean> lifted baby off to see what had happened to my suit (was wearing just a dress and nappy)
<mungbean> miracle of miracles , not a drop on me
<MartijnVdS> .. yet
<diddledan> lucky get
<mungbean> was everywhere except the suit
<mungbean> got away with it
<mungbean> was sitting down to eat at the time
<popey> Ahh, conversations about baby poo
<popey> we vowed when we had our kids never to talk about their poo
<diddledan> popey: you bet!
<mungbean> ran out holding poo covered baby at arms length, all parents laughing
<MartijnVdS> popey: not even to their boy/girlfriends, once they have them & bring them over?
<diddledan> lol
<MartijnVdS> popey: (bonus points for embarassing pictures)
<mungbean> i don't know what i woul dhave done if i'd had got splurged
<diddledan> Acheivement unlocked: baby poo
<mungbean> oh dear
<mungbean> my leg
<MartijnVdS> A perk of single life 8-)
<mungbean> she got me five mins ago
<mungbean> just realised
<popey> oh, when they're older, anything goes
<popey> i mean, now, while they're kids, talking to other parents or indeed non-parents
 * popey considers going indoors now
<popey> been out here since 8am
<diddledan> hard at work, I see
<popey> indeed
<popey> tis nice working outside
<diddledan> until your battery dies and you have to rig up an extension cable
<popey> did that at 10:00 â»
<diddledan> lol
<popey> we have sockets outside though
<MartijnVdS> until some piece of hardware melts?
<popey> so only needed a short cable
<popey> in the shade â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: a true geek household.. sockets outside ;)
<popey> when i was in spain my iphone shutdown due to overheating
<popey> yeah, wish we had cat6 outside â»
<mungbean> ok, tshrt and pj's cxovered in poo. stripped off to put in the washing machine
<mungbean> neighbour is in his garden,
<mungbean> near my door
<mungbean> me butt naked
<diddledan> I think I need to put the side back on my case - it's getting loud and hot near the puter
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: do you have his phone number? We could get him to move :)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: or tell him to have a peek
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: or that..
<MartijnVdS> depends on who calls first I guess ;)
<diddledan> lol
<mungbean> situation is now under control
<diddledan> so, google app engine now supports PHP
<diddledan> \o/
<mungbean> grabbed some clean clothes from a pile
<MartijnVdS> :(
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: tomorrow's news: Google pwned
<diddledan> mungbean: I'm sure you try to keep plenty of those around
<diddledan> mungbean: though I'd bet not as much as you'd like
<mungbean> had a lovelyday off today, which makes going to work all that much more miserable tomorrow
<popey> 4 day week, no monday rush hour...
<mungbean> wife gaave me a free pass to do whatever i wanted, no kids duties at all
<mungbean> best day in return i do the same in a couple of weeks
<mungbean> saw another prog about hoarders., the man was wearing element 14 raspi tshirt :)
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> long blogpost is going to be long
<Laney> hrm
<brobostigon> i wonder what the url is. ?
<Laney> Anyone changed from Paris Nord to Paris Gare Lyon? I just checked my tickets for me holiday and we've only got 41 minutes between trains which the internets suggests is pretty tight ...
<Laney> They were sold as one through ticket :(
<mungbean> taxi?
<Laney> apparently takes just as long as metro if not longer
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: whats the url ? please.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's not live yet
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: still writing :)
<diddledan> what will the url be? :-p
<mungbean> gare de lyon has the train bleu restaurant. had a nice meal in there
<MartijnVdS> depends on the publishing date :)
<diddledan> doesn't your time machine work?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i meant the url of your blog as a whole. not the post specific.
<Laney> helpful :P
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: nah, my TARDIS broke down
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ah, http://blog.vandestreek.net/
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thank you, :)
<mungbean> i havent done a change though. you've been stitched up a little, hopefully it will work out
<Laney> Seems like it's theoretically possible, but I have NFI where to go etc
<Laney> of course they are non-flexi tickets too :|
<popey> oh, i know someone who did that
<popey> trekked across town
<mungbean> je veux aller a gare de lyon, vite vite monsieur!
<diddledan> plus de 50Euro pour allez au gare de lyon en dix minutes
<diddledan> :-p
<Laney> heh
<diddledan> s/en/sur/
<Laney> that would be cheaper than buying new train tickets
<MartijnVdS> Laney: "The journey from Paris Gare du Nord to Gare de Lyon usually takes around 30 minutes, depending on how busy the RER is."
<MartijnVdS> according to Eurostar
<MartijnVdS> that gives you 11 minutes (or less) to catch the train onward
<MartijnVdS> if your incoming train isn't delayed
<MartijnVdS> (outgoing train might be delayed too!)
<mungbean> this kind of thing is why i dont travel
<mungbean> stress!!
<Laney> was reading http://www.seat61.com/Paris-metro.htm#.UdsgxqzAh38
<diddledan> takes around 30 minutes provided you start at the correct time**
<Laney> seat61++
<MartijnVdS> Laney: http://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/travel-information/connections-information/travel-to-switzerland/connecting-paris-gare-de-lyon#.UdsgnDNdWhM
<Laney> sounds stressful
<diddledan> what's the #.foo all about on those urls?
<diddledan> seems they're put in by freenode?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: maybe they do whatever they do when you miss a connecting flight, and re-book on the next onward train if you miss it?
<Laney> I'll ask them
<Laney> it looks like two separate tickets to me though
<Laney> but who knows
<MartijnVdS> Laney: what's your final destination?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: do you have a reserved seat on the second part?
<Laney> lyon, yes
<diddledan> surely the movies have told us what the "final destination" is?!
<MartijnVdS> hmm.. I'd ask them.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: nah, they keep making sequels
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> are any of the characters who survived the original in any of the sequels?
<MartijnVdS> I never watched any of them
<Scratman> irc.thebox.bz/#thebox.bz
<Azelphur> Scratman: that's not how you do it ;)
<popey> silly rabbit
<popey> that looks very much like an old invite only torrent site from a few years back
<popey> cant recall the name of it now
<Azelphur> popey: seems like it's still up :)
<popey> new name
<popey> their abuse report process is hilarious
<Azelphur> haha, for copyrighted material?
<popey> yeah
<Azelphur> that's not particularly surprising
<Azelphur> popey: they are just a torrent indexing site anyway, torrents aren't copyrighted :)
<diddledan> wait, illegal irc sharing sites have a copyright material policy?
<popey> dont even bother
<diddledan> irc????
<diddledan> torrent that was supposed to read
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, haha I found that surprising
<diddledan> pmsl - I just almost typed "sudo apt-get yogurt*
<diddledan> "
<diddledan> I was trying to type upgrade, obviously?
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> jeez, that machine is outdated - 120 packages need upgrading
<hamitron> I suspect some of my machines need more than packages to make everything ok :/
<diddledan> ubuntu ftw! I think I've convinced boss-like to let us upgrade our outdated Gentoo xen servers to Ubuntu 12.04LTS
<diddledan> just have to hope drbd changes in different versions of the kernel aren't going to cause headaches
<diddledan> SWEET, firebox have a new product - the hoodie-pillow :-D
<diddledan> for everyone who loves sleeping!
<diddledan> I'm glad I live alone - randomly saying "bonk" when you click on something could make others think differently of me
<popey> haha
<diddledan> I**
<Azelphur> diddledan: reminds me of this addon for world of warcraft someone made for me as a joke
<Azelphur> he always used to wind me up about how I ran around jumping all the time, so he made an addon that played a "Boing!" sound every time I jumped.
<Azelphur> this of course only made me jump more.
<diddledan> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-09
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> morning AlanBell
<MartijnVdS> you're up early
<MooDoo> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> How're we all this fine lovely morning
<MooDoo> diplo: groovy baby
<diplo> heh
<hoover> good morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<christel> morning boys and girls
<popey> ah christel
<MooDoo> morning christel again
<bigcalm> Hola christel
<brobostigon> morning christel, MooDoo popey and bigcalm
<hoover> Hey biggie
<bigcalm> Hi hoover
<venkat> Hi
<MooDoo> hi venkat
<venkat> could you help me  i have  dout in ubuntu
<MooDoo> venkat: just ask away, if anyone can help you they will
<venkat> my boot partation full
<popey> thats unfortunate
<popey> you could boot to recovery mode (or use a live cd) and remove some older kernels that are no longer needed
<venkat> the partation 100% use
<brobostigon> kernels can be reletivly big, so would empty some space, allowing it to boot, and freeing up more space.
<popey> I would boot to a live cd, mount the partition and get rid of some very old kernels
<popey> well, i wouldn't be in this position in the first place, but hey ho
<venkat> which kernel i have to remove  now am using 3.5 kernel
<popey> you would need to boot to a live cd, and see what kernels are installed
<popey> I can't see what's on your disk from here
<brobostigon> telepathy. :)
<directhex> venkat, ubuntu updates its kernels very often, and most of the time, it installs the new one alongside the old one
<directhex> venkat, this means you likely have lots of kernels installed, all 3.5 but with minor version differences, filling /boot
<directhex> venkat, you basically need to get at your disk and uninstall all but the newest one
<venkat> no i have some applications are running that system
<directhex> venkat, is the system currently booted and working?
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Sugar Cookie Day! :-D
<directhex> where's my cookie then?
<MooDoo> howdy jame
<MooDoo> howdy JamesTait
<hoover> Hi James
<JamesTait> MooDoo, hoover, o/
<JamesTait> directhex, I don't know, where did you put it? ;)
<JamesTait> MooDoo, I guess I've become like czajkowski (cz-tab), only jame-tab?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: ahem ;)
<JamesTait> Heheh. :)
<venkat> please  tel me   what i have to do (boot partation full )
<czajkowski> eh
<MooDoo> czajkowski: talking about you not to you :p ;)
<czajkowski> oi
<MooDoo> <3
<popey> venkat: http://askubuntu.com/questions/171209/my-boot-partition-hit-100-and-now-i-cant-upgrade-cant-remove-old-kernels-to
<JamesTait> MooDoo, funny(-ish) story. When I joined canonical I used the same nick on the internal IRC server as everywhere else - jamestait.  But in the U1 channels, James Henstridge was already around - jamesh.  The presence of two jameses in the channel was awkward for tab completion.
<JamesTait> So I changed my nick to jayteeuk. :)
<czajkowski> ahhhhhhhhh
<popey> also, jnick_tait confuses me
<czajkowski> that explains that
<JamesTait> popey, it confused me when I got his plane ticket once.
<JamesTait> Speak of the devil!
<JamesTait> jnick_tait, o/
<popey> woah!
<popey> spooky
<MooDoo> spook....slither.....
 * MooDoo wonders how many people actually remember that lol
<jnick_tait> popey, JamesTait... it is i, the one true original jnick_tait :-)
<venkat> in my system  kernel version 3.5.0-17, 3.5.0-25, 3.5.0-26, 3.5.0-28, 3.5.0-30, 3.5.0-31, 3.5.0-32, 3.5.0-34  (which one i have remove)
<brobostigon> the first 7, and leave the last.
<bigcalm> As long as the last one works :)
<brobostigon> yes.
<bigcalm> When in doubt, leave 2
<brobostigon> yes.
<JamesTait> jnick_tait, I'm just grateful for the fact that you chose to go by your middle name and not your first.  It's bad enough having two Jameses on the team call each week, never mind two James Taits in the company! :D
<bigcalm> It's another one of those days
<meueshet> hi, someone here?
<meueshet> hello?
<DJones> There are people here
<meueshet> good!
<meueshet> i've instaled a backuppc on my server.
<meueshet> and i want to make a backup for only 1 folder.
<meueshet> how i can do it?
<DJones> !backup
<lubotu3> There are many ways to back your system up. Here's a few: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DuplicityBackupHowto , https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MondoMindi - See also !sbackup and !cloning
<meueshet> DJones: my server make every day a folder with backups and every day it's overwrite the folder..  i want to make like a versioning for tha backup
<DJones> meueshet: Probably better just asking the channel generally, my backups are only from desktops to a server & just use the builtin DejaDup backup
<brobostigon> rsync can do versioning if memory serves,
<meueshet> today folder, yesterday folder,  befor 2 days folder, befor 3 days folder, befor 4 days folder, befor 5 days folder, befor 6 days folder, befor week folder,  befor 2 weeks folder, befor 3 weeks folder,  befor month folder,   befor 2 months folder,    befor 3 months folder,  etc..
<slvr> from what I understand BackupPC already stores multiple backups. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BackupPC_host.png
<meueshet> but i need only 22 in 1 year not 365
<directhe`> i pay a freaking fortune for crashplan - unlimited cloud backup space for all household computers
<slvr> Unfortunately I'm not a user of that software, but from the documentation it does not look like that option is available.
<slvr> Maybe you should contact them on their user mailing list instead? backuppc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
<slvr> Alternatively, if you want full control, consider rsync: http://www.mikerubel.org/computers/rsync_snapshots/
<slvr> Of course, you could always manually delete backups you do not want, I suppose.
<mungbean> can someone remind me how i install linux bios on dell? i've got a .BIN file
<mungbean> for a poweredge server
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: firmware-addon-dell - A firmware-tools plugin to handle BIOS/Firmware for Dell systems
<MartijnVdS> http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Repository/firmware
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: that's old/doesn't work
<MartijnVdS> oh.
<mungbean> ah the bin file is a sh script
<MartijnVdS> sh or bash?
<mungbean> sh
<MartijnVdS> it could be a bash script with a #!/bin/sh header
<mungbean> runing now
<davmor2> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> which can break if /bin/sh != /bin/bash
<mungbean> this dr who action figure set looks epic but pricey http://www.amazon.co.uk/Character-Options-Doctor-Doctors-Collector/dp/B002YX011E
<mungbean> not reall sure who will spend 50 quid on such thing
<directhe`> cheap for what you get
<mungbean> i would like airfix to release a bunch of resin figures you can paint like that
<mungbean> they did one before with tennant and the tardis
<Laney> oh no, a huge bee in the office with me :(((((((
 * Laney runs
<bigcalm> Laney: steal its honey
<Laney> phew
<Laney> collected myself together and flicked it away with a book
<MooDoo> Laney: don't kill it, they are endangered
<hoover> cheers all
<bigcalm> Ugh, the humid heat can go away now please
<MartijnVdS> yes!
<Dave2> Air conditioned office is fine. 30 degree bedroom not so much.
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: mv bed office
<Dave2> That would be rather difficult
<MartijnVdS> Nothing is impossible!
<Dave2> I didn't say it would be impossible. It would just be pretty hard and pointless.
<bigcalm> Just sleep on a roll mat
<bigcalm> Is there a way to commit everything in git except for selected files?
<BigRedS> you could add them to .gitignore, commit -a , then remove them?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: git commit -a --interactive
<BigRedS> ah, that sounds like someone who's read the documentation
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> you could also just stash the bits you don't want to commit yet, commit, then unstash
<BigRedS> Every time I offer some daft workaround in ehre MartijnVdS seems to appear with the right way to do it :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and I don't even *like* git :P
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I've not used anything else enough to know if it's something I like or dislike. It's one of very few pieces of software I don't recall ever having sworn at, though
<MartijnVdS> we use bitkeeper at work, which is OK
<MartijnVdS> you can see where Linus got his inspiration for git, and the bzr people for bzr ;)
<BigRedS> You keep Perl in bitkeeper? That's asking for a snide remark about the '90s, surely!
<MartijnVdS> \o/ 90s ;)
<MartijnVdS> also.. :( legacy
<BigRedS> yeah, that's a common excuse :) I found myself installing an svn server for a customer the other day which seemed a bit historical
<MartijnVdS> "quaint" is the word I'd use ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> the rustic VCS
 * popey calls IBM to get his laptop fixed
<mungbean> again
<BigRedS> popey: it's not the '90s any more
<BigRedS> :)
<mungbean> popey is the worst advert for thinkpad i've seen
<BigRedS> Ah, you need to see me. I'm a good advert for them
<BigRedS> mine still works
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "for al your picturesque Perl code"
<mungbean> my IBM (not lenovo) one still works
<mungbean> and its 13 years old
<BigRedS> mungbean: runs OpenArena but not Firefox?
<MartijnVdS> I threw my Pentium 2 thinkpad away a few months ago
<BigRedS> mungbean: haha, I might give our SVN server here that as a tagline
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: other m<tab> I guess? :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah :)
<popey> haha mungbean
<popey> i called lenovo support, the guy asked me to describe the problem.. I asked if he had access to the internet and pointed him at my twitter feed â»
<popey> BigRedS: actually it is IBM you call for Lenovo support
<popey> might see if the guy can replace the wrist-rest while he has it in bits, given I got a replacement one on ebay a while back and haven't fitted it yet
<BigRedS> popey: oh, really? I've never broken one in a warranty-supporting sort of way
<Azelphur> when I bought my thinkpad it arrived with a busted key on the keyboard
<Azelphur> didn't bother sending it back though, replacement keycap was only $7
<MartijnVdS> I feel a new image macro meme coming up.. "Upper-crust Azelphur"
<MartijnVdS> all we need is a photo
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, whys that? :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: "I didn't send it back, I just paid a bit more"
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, well, it was either send it back to Lenovo, probably wait like 2 weeks for a slightly dodgy key
<BigRedS> haha
<Azelphur> or pay $7 and have it done next day
<BigRedS> and, to be fair, when you've just got your shiny new laptop that last thing you want to do is give it back
<MartijnVdS> fair enough
<Azelphur> ^ that
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: if you're gonna do upper crust azelphur, you've gotta do it on the real upper crust things, like getting invited to the top of canary wharf for a cocktail party with bankers.
<popey> mine broke within days
<Azelphur> ;)
<popey> had to have a new mobo because it refused to boot from ssd one time in 3
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and paying in bitcoin ;)
<MartijnVdS> popey: UEFI?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: that's why I was invited ;)
<popey> nope
<popey> not EFI at all
<mungbean> is there an easier way to fill a rack in racktables than clicking the object and then the rackspace tab?
<mungbean> trying to fill arack is tedious
<MartijnVdS> arack? related to the alot?
<mungbean> his son
<mungbean> also teh president
<mungbean> arack bobama
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_949926&feature=iv&src_vid=GIgHDE1AhyU&v=fbqeyHxH-zU
<mungbean> thought that was a racktables tutorial :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's a song about bad jokes :)
<MartijnVdS> *entirely composed of
<mungbean> people are drinking tea in this weather :S
<popey> Ooh yes.
 * bigcalm sips his tea
<popey> I've been drinking coffee all day
<mungbean> begone devil people
<popey>  s/mungbean/captain_contraire/
<mungbean> i like coffee
<mungbean> but i only drink on special occasions
<BigRedS> I got a 'coffee cooler' the other day
<BigRedS> it was a really expensive cold coffee :(
<mungbean> cofee stimulates me too much
<mungbean> so only drink at a wedding or in an irish coffee (best drink ever)
<BigRedS> drink more of it, it loses its effect
<mungbean> if i'm not expeting to sleep anytime
 * MartijnVdS had a lot of tea today
<MartijnVdS> and it's 30-ish C out
<popey> the only time coffeee keeps me awake is if I have the fresh stuff in a restaurant after a meal
<AlanBell> afternoon
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<popey> yo
 * AlanBell has no X :(
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: time to set up ntp
 * popey wonders if AlanBell has -proposed enabled
 * popey suspects he does
<AlanBell> nope, but I have mir-team/staging
<popey> ah fun
<MartijnVdS> is it #blamepopey time? ;)
<popey> Nope â»
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> slow work day
<AlanBell> sudo ppa-purge ppa:mir-team/staging
<AlanBell> tells me it could not find the package list
<popey> try add-apt-repository -r ppa:mir-team/staging
<AlanBell> that did something
<AlanBell> now an update/dist-upgrade?
<popey> I'd be inclined to see what packages you had from that ppa
<popey> i.e. look at what's in it on lp
<popey> and apt-get remove or downgrade them
<AlanBell> cool, will do that
<popey> apt-get install package=version package=version package=version   etc
<AlanBell> yay, now installing ubuntu-desktop
<AlanBell> also had to remove the mir-team/system-compositor-testing ppa
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you seem to be insinuating there is a time when it isn't blame popey
<AlanBell> yay, I have a desktop again \o/
<AlanBell> thanks popey :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: true :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you should give him a beer in thanks :P
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: once it arrives..
<BigRedS> is mir day-to-day-use working?
<AlanBell>  . . . ooh, interesting
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1269
<AlanBell> BigRedS: nope, not really (well not today for certain)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that's what the DHL link I sent you is for :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, but he would say that!
<AlanBell> looks like I uninstalled xorg yesterday, then suspended, then during a meeting with a client inadvertently rebooted, and had no X
<AlanBell> luckily I wasn't attempting to demo anything at the time ;)
<MartijnVdS> :)
<AlanBell> now recovered via tethering over my phone in a hotel as network manager works awesomely from the command line
<AlanBell> so Mir kinda worked when I tested it, but there were several showstopper bugs for me, some of which have apparently been fixed
<diddledan> that shuttleworth post: "perhaps also the advantage of looking at things through the perspective of a mobile lens" <-- is that a new unity feature? :-p
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> is it "in scope"
<AlanBell> bug 1102760 is probably quite a biggie
<lubotu3> bug 1102760 in Mir "Multi-monitor support incomplete - can't show different images on each screen" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1102760
<diddledan> multimonitor would be a deal-breaker for me
<diddledan> I _require_ two screens to be civilised
<diddledan> I'd really like 3 screens or maybe 6
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: also a top hat and monocle?
<diddledan> :-)
<mungbean> kindle fire hd now 139 "with special offers"
<MartijnVdS> i.e. ads
<mungbean> i hate the kindle fire interface
<mungbean> really nasty
<diplo> mungbean: Me to, going to flash mine soon I think
<diplo> Also don't like that no google services :/
<diddledan> google-pwned
<diddledan> :-p
<mungbean> had to edit my /etc/redhat-release in order to get a dell fw update to work :(
<diplo> Sounds fun :)
<mungbean> would prefer a better message than "Unable to get the System Generation"
<diplo> Right, going to go home on time tonight
<diplo> gn all
<venkat> Hi
<venkat> could you help me please
<venkat> i have dout in ubuntu  could you help me
<brobostigon> how can we help.
<venkat> my boot partation 100% use   i remove old kernel  am not able to login server please  tel me
<brobostigon> if you run "df -h -T" how much free space is it showing, and where.
<brobostigon> that will tell you, where you need to free up more space.
<MartijnVdS> and removing kernels: http://askubuntu.com/questions/2793/how-do-i-to-remove-or-hide-old-kernel-versions-to-clean-up-the-boot-menu
<brobostigon> that was mentioned earlier MartijnVdS :), last time venkat asked this afternoon.
<directhe`> popey, bigcalm: organ trail. yay or nay?
<popey> uninstalled it
<brobostigon> beer and food with my dad, woop.
<MartijnVdS> directhe`: little inferno: ++
<brobostigon> at 7:30pm.
<brobostigon> i am not complaining, my dad is buying.
<venkat> now am  removed old lernel   (3.2.0)   am  not able to login     how to recover
<venkat> my boot partation
<MartijnVdS> venkat: did you remove *all* kernels?
<MartijnVdS> venkat: so now you just get grub (the boot loader screen)?
<venkat> no am removed only  3.2.0.17  now working  kernel  3.2.0.34
<MartijnVdS> venkat: then you're probably just typing your password wrong?
<brobostigon> i just overclocked my mobile by 200odd mhz, lets hope it keeps up.
<MartijnVdS> don't phones run at >1GHz these days?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: this is my htc dream,
<venkat> n  i start server   is  recover mode   ubuntu , memory test   that  sereen  avaliable
<MartijnVdS> venkat: no option to start 3.2.0.34?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i made my own kernel this afternoon, for it, with zram to extend the ram abit further.
<MartijnVdS> venkat: do you get an error? if so, which error?
<venkat> ya  some  errors i watched
<MartijnVdS> venkat: http://bernaerts.dyndns.org/linux/232-ubuntu-boot-failure-initramfs might help you
<venkat> but  i dot'no  i have    lot of data is there in that system
<MartijnVdS> venkat: it's hard to understand what you're trying to say
<brobostigon> ok, bbl, food andbeer time, :)
<MartijnVdS> venkat: maybe there's another IRC channel, with people who speak your language, who can help you better
<venkat> no   could  we please me  i can tel you  currently
<MartijnVdS> venkat: What do you see on your screen?
<MartijnVdS> venkat: the boot loader?
<MartijnVdS> a "Login:" prompt?
<venkat> when  i restart  i got  ubuntu, memory test. like   ok   after select  ubuntu  pres enter key    i sa  reeor messages
<MartijnVdS> venkat: what's the exact text of the error messages?
<venkat> no not com login prompt
<MartijnVdS> I don't know that error message.
<venkat> wait  for  2minits  will tel you
<venkat> http://parmeter.net/tech/?p=1116    am  followin   this  url
<MartijnVdS> venkat: did you notice /boot was full while doing an upgrade?
<MartijnVdS> venkat: because then the initramfs probably wasn't installed correctly
<MartijnVdS> venkat: or the entire kernel
<MartijnVdS> venkat: so again, what's the error message?
<directhe`> i tried to help venkat earlier today, but he disappeared partway & was basically uncontactable, on top of the language barrier
<directhe`> so *shrug*
<MartijnVdS> directhe`: OK, thanks
<MartijnVdS> also
<MartijnVdS> youtube died?
<venkat> like  my old kernel  remove   after  restart     came  only  ubuntu  screen  only  after  enter  i got  erroe  messages
 * popey wonders if venkat might get better help in somewhere where his first language is spoken.
<popey> which may or may not be #ubuntu-in
<MartijnVdS> judging by his IP, it might be
<HoT|2fC^> Anyone know if I can get DD-WRT on my NetGear DGN2000 Router? it's ADSL+
<HoT|2fC^> ADSL2+
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: I'd recommend OpenWRT instead of DD-WRT
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: it tends to use more recent kernels and software
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/netgear/dgn2200v2 <-- currently unsupported
<popey> didnt think dd-wrt supported any adsl routers
<popey> only real routers
 * popey has deja-vu
<popey> didn't we talk about this recently
<MartijnVdS> only very few routers with DSL are supported by either DD or OpenWRT
<Seeker`> popey: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/07/02/%23ubuntu-uk.html
<HoT|2fC^> No popey it wasnt yesterday it was ages ago lol, and thanks MartijnVdS! yeah looked into it and they do ADSL DD and OpenWRT supported routers now.
<MartijnVdS> I have fibre now
<MartijnVdS> fibre is cool
<HoT|2fC^> haha alright for some MartijnVdS I live in the countryside and max d/l speed is 5mbps and u/l speed 0.38mbps
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: awww
<HoT|2fC^> So you are one lucky person.
<HoT|2fC^> ;)
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: FTTC or FTTP?
<HoT|2fC^> Also I have the DGN2000 MartijnVdS, http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/netgear/dgn2000
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: P
<HoT|2fC^> ;)
<Seeker`> :O
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: 100/100 (soon to be 500/500)
<Seeker`> wow
<HoT|2fC^> luckers!
<Seeker`> FTTC is probably enough for me for now. 65/20
<MartijnVdS> come to the Netherlands ;)
<MartijnVdS> Most of the country will get fibre like this before 2017
<HoT|2fC^> haha yeah Neatherlanders have it all ;)
<HoT|2fC^> dude in our clan has 200/200
<diddledan> damned dutch
<HoT|2fC^> yeah dutchyys
 * HoT|2fC^ passs di dutchiee pon di left hand side..
<diddledan> I've been looking for some way of bonding two lines so I have a bt-based fttc and a virgin-media-based cable in a bonded setup - can't find any place that does it that tells me how pricey it would be
<popey> AAISP do it
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: that page doesn't specify support status though
<popey> but not cable
<diddledan> they all talk of like 6x5Mbps though, and none of them seem to consider fibre-based bonding
<HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, yeah gatherd that ;)
<HoT|2fC^> How do I find out for the DGN2000?
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: let me check my build root :)
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<HoT|2fC^> Ok :D
<HoT|2fC^> I just want to use a better control panel for my Router as the Netgear one is boring :D
<HoT|2fC^> I just like to make things more advanced and colorful.
<popey> get a better router?
<HoT|2fC^> popey, stop being mean :D
<popey> s/mean/realistic/
<HoT|2fC^> popey, I dont have the money right now.
<HoT|2fC^> I can make a better router from an old IBM pc and stick pfSense on there !
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: grepping
 * HoT|2fC^ runs off to make a quick sandwich..
<diddledan> I like my mikrotik router. it's a shame the gui is a windows application, though, but at least it runs in wine/crossover
<diddledan> I like that it allows you to admin via mac address in case you've forgotten what ip you gave it and it isn't doing dhcp
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: nothing found
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: the GUI is web-based as well
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: for Mikrotik
<diddledan> yeah, I haven't tried the web admin on it. the windows client works well enough for me in wine
<diddledan> they've got ssh cli admin too
<MartijnVdS> yeah, I've used that too
<MartijnVdS> \o/ blog post finished
<MartijnVdS> I need to stop writing these 3km long posts
<diddledan> hmm.. wordpress wsod - on the /wp-admin/post.php?action=edit page
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: but.. I use blogger.com
<diddledan> server says 200 OK
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: nah, on my own thing
<diddledan> I'm building something secrit
<diddledan> syslog says nothing, server log says nothing. I hate when wordpress does this kind of thing
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: apache errorlog?
<diddledan> I'm trying out google's own php thing on the app engine development server
<diddledan> INFO     2013-07-09 19:14:23,367 server.py:593] default: "GET /wp-admin/post.php?post=1&action=edit HTTP/1.1" 200 -
<diddledan> that says it sent a 200 OK response
<MartijnVdS> isn't that the access log though?
<MartijnVdS> does WP have its own log?
<MartijnVdS> or PHP
<diddledan> I've got a syslog plugin installed in wordpress but it's not reporting anything unusual
<diddledan> if php had a fatal error I would expect to find it reported by syslog. as it is there is nothing logged.
<MartijnVdS> I have never set up wordpress myself (almost typed "mysql" there.. hmmmm)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: are the file permissions set correctly?
<diddledan> yup
<MartijnVdS> (where "correctly" I mean "however WP expects them")
<MartijnVdS> I'd double-check that :)
<MartijnVdS> if anyone wants to proof-read or fact-check.. http://blog.vandestreek.net/2013/07/playing-with-wpa2-enterprise-using.html :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ^ ? :)
<mungbean> has anyone seen this programme on dave called storage hunters?
<diplo> mungbean: yeah watched it a few times
<diplo> it's on discovery channels as well
<mungbean> its weird. bunch of hillbilly types and caricatures
<diplo> to many of them now
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: is that the one where they auction off contents from storage that wasn't paid?
<mungbean> i dont get it
<diplo> MartijnVdS: yeah
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: seems so
<mungbean> the people on it are horrib
<mungbean> its all staged surely. there's a genuine WWII prop in there.
<MartijnVdS> it's like Antiques Roadshow for Americans
<diplo> yeah I'd say its staged, but then they are americans :)
<mungbean> there's a programme called toy hunters which is horrid too.
<diddledan> there's no way they get all that junk in such a small area randomly
<mungbean> they miss the point that its about toys
<mungbean> and the guy just rips peopole off
<mungbean> diddledan: exactly. there was a pristine train set, all set up, no dust
<mungbean> i call shenanigans, and big ones too
<mungbean> it stinks of fakery
<diddledan> I don't get why they need to cut the lock off the door either, because the auctioneer says things like "we've got a killer lockup later on, you're going to be amazed" so he's seen inside already, which means he was the one who locked the door, and then he gets someone to take a pair of bolt cutters to his lock
<mungbean> http://www.businessinsider.com/david-hester-says-storage-wars-is-fake-2012-12
<mungbean> then again those, essex/chelsea progs are fake too
<diplo> I hate most reality tv
<mungbean> i also hate most american tv
<popey> reminds me, dexter is back soon/already
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<mungbean> also, some company brands are blurred out
<popey> YO!
<mungbean> but the sony and dell gear is on
<mungbean> not
<diplo> I like things like ncis/elementary etc
<diddledan> <3 abby in ncis!
<diplo> Very nice :)
<diddledan> the actress manages to look very young compared to her real age
<diddledan> as abby she looks like 20's? she's actually in her 40s
<mungbean> lol they planted a load of rats in the container underneath antique furniture
<bigcalm> directhex: not yet tried organ trial
 * bigcalm has a look
<bigcalm> Nice music
<MartijnVdS> organ music?
<bigcalm> directhex: the little I just played was pants
 * bigcalm uninstalls
<bigcalm> directhex: popey: you guys should buy Trials Evolution on Steam, plug in a xbox controller and play multi-player with me :D
 * bigcalm reboots to GameOS to play said game
 * popey is in gameos playing with unity3d
<popey> sophie was telling me what to do
<popey> "put a ball there"
<popey> "make it blue"
<popey> "make it rolle"
<popey> -e
<mungbean> quidco are offering me a Â£5 bonus if "he rules are the same - simply purchase at any retailer before midnight Sunday, 14 July."
<mungbean> does that mean i could buy any item from amazon for Â£6 and get a fiver back?
<mungbean> there's no obvious T&C.
<redtape|renegade> OT | CrytekÂ® has posted a job advert for a 'Linux dev.' ::: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQwNTY ::: althou. Crysis is 5 years old, we'll prob. see it  within 2 years on steam\ubuntu.
<redtape|renegade> prob. should post it on linux jobs mailing list ....
<directhex> redtape|renegade, cryengine is still actively developed, and crysis 3 was released a couple of months ago
 * redtape|renegade wonders why he's permanently living 1hr in the past according to the Ubuntu-UK logs ? http://bit.ly/1amagu4 :: Oh, & who do I poke about this ?
<redtape|renegade> **makes that two hours in praeteritum
<popey> the job runs in UTC
<directhex> log files are often kept in GMT
 * redtape|renegade makes a note of this, as so not to go poking around again.
 * redtape|renegade is chipper [OT] Mrs Merkel& and 5% of .DE is using Linux  is switching to Linux ..  according to Mr Pogson ::: http://mrpogson.com/2013/07/08/gnulinux-breaking-out-in-germany/ :: (last OT post, today; [hypo's-honour])
<diddledan> hang on, if that's OT then someone forgot to tell me there's a T to go O of.
<redtape|renegade> diddledan: troo .. but it really a silent protest about the fact there's no-one to put a T to go O of.
 * redtape|renegade makes an apology cake for diddledan for the remonstration.
<diddledan> yey cake!
<diddledan> wait, is the cake a lie?
 * redtape|renegade tries to insert a ginger slab into his DVD drive for diddledan ..  as he forgets wat that's for since no 12.10 DVD's off ABell have arrived .. gives up.
<redtape|renegade> diddledan: Sorry for that, I guess .DE isn't classed as in the ubuntu-UK's region .. so that's why it's OffTopic. Unless you count  Herman Ze German CafÃ© :)
<redtape|renegade> Anyone for google glass ? Â£5K ::::: http://bit.ly/12kazQI :::
<Azelphur> "only"
 * redtape|renegade goes to bed wondering who clicked the bit.ly Link from Southern IRL ?  .... I'll check the logs in the Mir-ning.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-10
<shauno> heh, he'll have fun with that .. geoip puts me as Shannon, but he knows I'm not there
<venkat> Hi
<venkat> could you  help me please   i have  a problam  in ubuntu
<venkat> my boot  partation  full  that'y  i removed  old kernel  i got problems
<MartijnVdS> venkat: I think you might get a faster, better answer if you post your question t http://askubuntu.com/
<venkat> now i post  exat  problam
<venkat> can not open root device "mapper/ubuntu-root" or unlnow block(0,0):error -6
<venkat> please append a corrent "root" boot partation
<venkat> kernel panix-not syncing ufs: unable to mount root fs on unknow
<venkat> this is exat problams
<venkat> MartijnVdS:    i can not enter  single user mod also   same problem
<venkat> please  tel  me   what can  i do ?
<venkat> MartijnVdS: please    tel  me
<venkat> Hi
<MooDoo> morning
<venkat> could you  help  me
<venkat> my  boot partation  use 100% that's y   i removed  old   kernel   after    restarting  system     got  errors
<venkat> when i  select  ubunt  enter   errors
<venkat> error messages ;  can not open  root device  "mapper/ubuntu-root" or  unknow-block(0,0):error -6
<venkat> 2)   please append  a corrent "root=" boot option; here are the avvaliable  partation
<venkat> 3)  kernel panic-not syncing : VFS: unable to mount    root fs on unknow (0,0)
<venkat> 4)  pid:1, comm :  swapper/0 not  tainted  3.5.0.34-generic  ---------->like  problems
<venkat> please  could you  lehp  me
<venkat> please  help me  anyone
<MooDoo> if there is no one to help you here, have you tried #ubuntu ?
<venkat> i am fresher   in dot't no depth knowledge  ubuntu boot process    i tried to  login   single user mod also  same problem  i check google also     i  can't solve  my  problem  after  i am  lookin ubuntu  forum
<venkat> moodoo  please  can you  slove  my problem
<MooDoo> I don't know the answer without googling it
<venkat> i send  errors after  select  ununtu  enter
<knightwise> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<ali1234> nurbs
<ali1234> blender's implementation is really weird and has functions that do nothing at all
<meueshet> hi
<redtape|renegade> Anyone see the google glass post I posted last night .. (?) ::::: http://bit.ly/12kazQI :::
<MooDoo> redtape|renegade: aren't you using them yourself?
<BigRedS> "The Bitcoin luxury marketplace" has a Lada on it?
<redtape|renegade> MooDoo :  just get the emails from that website , and wince over how Americanised the word *decadence* has become. So not yet, No .. but they do run Ubuntu, I'm told.
<MooDoo> ah ok
<mungbean> saw a 7 year old boy on the train clutching a ribena and a Â£50 note today :-|
<Laney> which one did you nick?
<redtape|renegade> ribena or Â£50 note ? It's like that McCains advert of which one is more important to him ... 'dad or chips ?'
<mungbean> i wouldn't trust 50p to a child
<mungbean> he'd spend it on a kinder egg
<mungbean> actually i found a pound once as a boy and bought 4 kinders and 4 cola bottles with it
<redtape|renegade> mungbean: I think I bought a potatoe scallop with my new-found Â£1 coin .. prob.ly get a Fredo bar now ..
<redtape|renegade> They say that Fredo bars are directly proportional to the rate of inflation .. i.e '02@ 5p  then '13 @ 20p.
<redtape|renegade> I think the bonk of England set their base rate by Fredo bars ;)
<christel> haha
<christel> my son is currently at that stage where if given a pound or two to buy something for himself he will try to convince me that i should pay so that he can keep his pounds to put them in his piggy bank instead
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
<MartijnVdS> christel: banker in the making?
<christel> (mind, he is also a bit greedy -- he hoovered the dining room and i jokingly suggested that i had better start paying him pocket money soon... he turned around and told me it would be 13 pounds)
<christel> i think he picked the amount out of thin air... he's only 3 and a half!
<christel> i felt it was a bit steep!
<popey> Sam is saving his money to buy expensive toys
<christel> MartijnVdS: i fear he might be!
<MartijnVdS> christel: sounds more and more like a banker.. :)
<christel> popey: :D
<popey> he finds 10p here or there and squirrels it away
<redtape|renegade> Aah the Age to pound ratio .. get them every time !
<mungbean> i remember as a 8 year old, closing my midland account to join the halifax and i had Â£84. the lady said, you gonna spend it on something nice? i said, no i'm putting it in the HFX
<mungbean> how on earth i earned that muhc money as a child i'll never know
<mungbean> 25p/week pocket money ..
<MooDoo> christel: I got that from my 4 year old, who I suggested wash the car, he said I'll do it for a tenner :S
<mungbean> looks interstig for summer hols activities for kids for those in kent http://www.thewarandpeacerevival.co.uk/
<redtape|renegade> I think squirrelling is the main aim/moral here though :: http://imgur.com/bqxA7Wi
<popey> I sometimes have to borrow money from the kids for parking!
<popey> they ensure I pay them back
<mungbean> http://eelslap.com/
<mungbean> maybe tumbleweed can be modified liek this :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Don't Step On A Bee Day! :-D
<DJones> redtape|renegade: I thought squirrelling was something else then, I take my dog squirrelling every day, he's still trying to work out how to climb tree's to catch one though
<mungbean> my dog caught one once
<mungbean> she's a jack russell, so it didn't last long
<mungbean> shake shake shake drop
<mungbean> how can i tell the microcode revision on my system?
<popey>  /proc/cpuinfo ?
<popey> grep microcode /proc/cpuinfo
<mungbean> tried that, and dmidecode and dmesg, /var/log/*
<popey> microcode	: 0x28
<popey> i see that x4
<mungbean> oh
<mungbean> weird
<MartijnVdS> it's in dmesg as well
<mungbean> nothing in mine
<popey> amd cpu?
<mungbean> yesh
 * popey shrugs
<popey> <- Intel
<redtape|renegade> DJones: poor thing .. but yur right .. should have put the dash in .. squirel-ing  .. there are other 'shots' you can take of less harm .. http://www.fancy.com/things/264739773443219027/Big-Head-Squirrel-Feeder
<mungbean> hopefully problem fixed now after the bios update. just wish their changelogs actually said technical stuff instead of misleading  interpretations
<popey> "* Bug fixes and performance improvements"
<mungbean> * Fixed something causing instability with vmware *
<mungbean> actually was a microcode update that affects other OS too
 * BigRedS hides his commit messages
<mungbean> was getting system hangs
<redtape|renegade> OT | an someone check if channel '0177' is still the *chillout channel* on sky, or has it expired ? redtape only knows them now thru http://www.last.fm/user/ChillDAB
<redtape|renegade> **Can someone ...
<popey> redtape|renegade: http://tv.sky.com/tv-guide
<redtape|renegade> oh right , yes .. thank-you ..
<redtape|renegade> Yeah, can'tb find 'Radio #channels' on that http://bit.ly/15vICGz .. put it on the back burner for 11-sies..
<redtape|renegade> **can't find 'R..
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> Goooooooood Morning!
 * redtape|renegade thawte popeycam would be 'blazing' today .. Apparently not .. according to the MetOffig :: http://yhoo.it/12gYHvA ::: Morning bigcalm
<BigRedS> SEO people are peculiar
<popey> Yes. They are.
<popey> They are almost all spammers too.
<popey> [FACT]
<popey> they deserve to be rounded up and put in a field IMO
<redtape|renegade> Ronnie Bincer especially.
<MartijnVdS> isn't SEO a synonym for spam?
<BigRedS> our customer's SEO people have asked that we remove the 301 redirect from .co.uk to .com and replace it with an "Our site has moved" page on the .co.uk...
<popey> Pillocks
<BigRedS> it is the site of an ambulance chasing company, so I feel no sympathy for the customer, though :)
<bigcalm> Eugh
<bigcalm> Name 'n shame ;)
<bigcalm> Oh, that reminds me. I need to sign and post this NDA agreement
<BigRedS> hahaha
<neuro> BigRedS: wait, what?
<neuro> your seo people wanted you to put a redirect notice page up instead of just redirecting?
<neuro> *brain asplode*
 * redtape|renegade wonders if it's time to think about modding a HTPC for Ubuntu-TV ? :: http://bit.ly/12Y7iGL ::  .. I think I'll leave it till 14.10, next year.
<neuro> with that spec? good luck.
 * redtape|renegade did say 'modd'.
<neuro> that's not "modding", that's "upgrading"
<BigRedS> neuro: I don't have SEO people! :) but, yeah, that's what they wanted
<popey> heh yeah, bit old and crusty is that
<neuro> oh, misread, customer's seo people
<neuro> seo and domainers ... the dark musty underbelly of the interwebs
<BigRedS> Yeah. Every time I get an email from a customer introducing their SEO people I picture some dank victorian London street of an evening with two hooded shifty looking types walking towards me
<BigRedS> I should probably drink less coffee.
<neuro> :)
<neuro> "nice website ... would be a pity if something ... happened to it ... 's google pagerank"
<BigRedS> hahaha
<MartijnVdS> neuro: hahaha :)
<neuro> BigRedS: badumtsh
<popey> jpc
<neuro> indeed
<Laney> so, something in London went down, eh? :-)
<redtape|renegade> Lnay How So ?  (I thnk this is the main one atmo. :: http://ind.pn/1aax3ph ::)
<mungbean> why does my pc have so many ipv6 addresses?
<mungbean> namely, 8
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> davmor2, you're late!
<JamesTait> davmor2, I already have my elevenses, that's how I know!
<JamesTait> davmor2, but good morning all the same. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: Late is a relative term I finished 40 minute over yesterday and an hour over on Monday so technically I'm still way ahead of myself :P
<JamesTait> davmor2, ah, you're like me. I'll let you off. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: My Mom is here this morning to pay us a visit and I just lost track of time it was like 10 when I last looked at the clock :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, no explanations required, I managed to get my elevenses without my usually-reliable alarm clock. ;) Say hi to your mom for me!
<mungbean> *mum
<mungbean> all spelling must be approved by the #ubuntu-uk overlords :D
<davmor2> mungbean: that will be Mom for Mother rather than the wussy southern version of Mum for Mummy :P
<JamesTait> mungbean, "it's complicated". ;)
<JohnRobert> ipv6 is cheap
<Laney> mom for mother?!
 * Laney grows perplexed
<mungbean> but why do i get 8 addresses?
<mungbean> my bot just exited and reappeared with another address...weird
<redtape|renegade> OT : redtape wonders if there's a manual *basque* after noting the 'bulls are running today' (click right for pictures) :: http://yhoo.it/152l6P2 ::  it appears not.
<redtape|renegade> **manual in *basque ..
<JamesTait> mungbean, off the top of my head, you'll have at least a loopback (::1) and a link-local (fe80::...), then possibly an auto-configured global, and a dynamic global with privacy extensions.
<mungbean> yes i have 8 global
<mungbean> attached to eth0
<mungbean> and 1 link .
<JamesTait> All native?
<JamesTait> Or are there tunnels, teredo (sp?) and stuff?
<mungbean> don't think there's any funky tunnels
<JamesTait> mungbean, they'd probably be attached to a tun interface rather than eth0, actually.
<mungbean> i only have eth0 and lo0
<mungbean> i might be confused though, i dont know much about ip6
<mungbean>  Xeon Processor E5-2660 8C 2.2GHz 20MB Cache 1600MHz 95
<mungbean> woops
<mungbean> http://pastebin.com/qahJhma0
<mungbean> "The Intel Xeon Phi coprocessor runs Linux. It
<mungbean> really is an x86 SMP-on-a-chip running Linux. "
<mungbean> you can get a shell session on the card.
<JamesTait> mungbean, ip -6 addr show eth0 will give you a bit more information about those addresses.
<mungbean> most are  scope global temporary deprecated dynamic
<mungbean> one is scope global dynamic
<JamesTait> I think that means they were allocated by IPv6 privacy extensions and have been superseded, but I'm not sure.
<JamesTait> The auto-configured IPv6 address normally contains your adapters MAC address in a trivially-encoded form, so the privacy extensions obfuscate that in some way.
<JamesTait> At least that's how I understand it.  I'm not intimately familiar with the whole thing, tbh.
 * JamesTait glosses over the missing apostrophe.
<JamesTait> mungbean, so the global dynamic one (not temporary) should look startlingly similar to the MAC address of eth0. It'll have ff:fe in the middle.
<JamesTait> And the first byte will be different (bit 2 is flipped, I think).
<mungbean> hey,cloud cover, what's that?
<mungbean> just in time for lunch :(
<SuperMatt> cloud cover? is that were you drape a tarp over your cloud servers to stop them getting wet when facilities forgets to fix the loos in the floor above?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: it's the money you pay to get into the cloud in the first place
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: like a cover charge
<andylockran> hey dudes; anyone keen on varnish?  Can't work out how to avoid it caching either large files, or files by type?
<andylockran> and I keep taking down the server when I try :(
<Monotoko> I am absolutely fed up of dealing with link spam today
<popey> and the day is young
<Monotoko> indeed - how're you popey ?
<BigRedS> andylockran: we've a varnish fan here, I'll ping him
<kirrus> andylockran: hey, BigRedS told me you've a varnish question
<kirrus> andylockran: it's easier to filter based on request, rather than file type/size, so for example, don't cache requests for ^/*.avi
<andylockran> kirrus: thanks for getting back to me
<andylockran> kirrus: does this make sense for you : http://pastebin.com/ym6wHP3A
<neuro> temp outside is < 20Âº, yay
<neuro> ooh, new email
<neuro> from virgin atlantic
<neuro> "We are always looking for ways we can improve to make your experience on future flights better and would be very grateful if you can spare around 5-8 minutes of your time to share your views."
<neuro> *rubs hands together*
<BigRedS> haha
<kirrus> andylockran: that looks fine after a quick look, though varnish can choke on large files.. it might be worth piping the connection instead of passing
<kirrus> andylockran: if I remember rightly, there's a bug in varnish that makes it crash the worker handling large files. Newer versions should be patched
<neuro> hmm, didn't get much of a chance to put the boot in on virgin's flight survey other than to rate punctuality of the outbound flight as "poor" (it was over 3 hours before we got on a plane after the departure time)
<BigRedS> I do like those surveys where the closest you can get to complaining is marking them as 0 for 'would you reccomend us to your friends'
<neuro> i rated them a five
<BigRedS> I had a council send me a survey about paying council tax. It asked me to rate my chances of doing it again...
<neuro> the inbound flight was excellent
<neuro> lol
<BigRedS> haha
<neuro> well, there's a difference between *wanting* to pay your council tax and actually *having* to pay it ... :)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<neuro> i phoned up some credit types today who i have some old debt with that i'm paying off
<neuro> wanted to get the current balance
<neuro> and they said "oh and there's the other account with (blah blah) pounds on it"
<neuro> i was like "whaaaaaat? when did i last pay anything against it?"
<neuro> "oh, something something 2010"
<neuro> OOPS
<neuro> "um, so I should start paying something to that then, eh?" "yes, that would be great!" :)
<neuro> glad i called now
<neuro> "Sync failed. Please commit all your changes before syncing."
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<neuro> GIIIIIIIIIT *shakes fist*
<neuro> what happens when you work on stuff on one machine, then copy the changes to another machine, commit from there, then go back to the first machine ...
<neuro> MartijnVdS: do you have a macro set up for that or something, you always seem to be able to type weird symbols pretty quickly :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I have, yes :)
<neuro> ha, knew it
<MartijnVdS> I also have:
<MartijnVdS> ( Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì[Ì²Ì Ì²Ì]Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì)
<MartijnVdS> (â¯Â°â¡Â°)â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
<neuro> what's the first one?
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sparadrap_2.jpg
<mungbean> anyone here do backups of a gpfs filesystem?
<neuro> weird
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: gpfs?
<mungbean> yes, GPFS
<neuro> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gpfs
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: an AIX box should be able to do it )
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<mungbean> helpful--
<popey> adding one drop of Daves Insanity Sauce to my lunchtime soup, probably not the best idea
<MartijnVdS> popey: concentrated capsaicin oil?
<mungbean> that would hospitalise me
<mungbean> i have intolerance to capsaicin
<mungbean> my kryptonite
<popey> just a bit
<popey> apparently i should have dipped a toothpick in the bottle then dipped it in my soup
<popey> and that would be sufficient
<MartijnVdS> eek
<MartijnVdS> and they sell this stuff to mortals?
<popey> it was a present
<popey> it was on my amazon wishlist
<mungbean> who does quidco?
<MartijnV1S> mungbean: as in, who owns it, or who uses it?
<mungbean> (3)
<mungbean> woops (2) who uses it
<mungbean> Claim your
<mungbean> Â£5 bonus
<mungbean> We've extended your bonus for another week and doubled it! The rules are the same - simply purchase at any retailer before midnight Sunday, 14 July.
<Monotoko> the hell is quidco?
<mungbean> however no T&C are provided so unsure what the conditions are
<mungbean> quidco is an afficilate company. you buy after clicking their links and you get a bit of the afficiliate moneys
<Monotoko> ahhh... like the thing my ol' boss used to sell dumb people for $2000...
 * bigcalm shakes fist at VirginMedia's cable modem and then at their DNS servers
 * bigcalm hugs opendns
<mungbean> hear the yum lead dev got killed? :(
<MartijnV1S> yeah, hit & run by a car while bicycling or something?
<mungbean> yeah
<neuro> weirdest linkedin connection request in a while
<MartijnVdS> neuro: oh?
<neuro> some random guy from canada wearing a cowboy hat and tan leather jacket, employment says a B&B from 2011-2013 and he's written a book
<neuro> um
<neuro> ok?
<neuro> *ignore*
<neuro> *i don't know this person*
<neuro> weird
<BigRedS> but surely you want to know this person!
<MartijnVdS> and/or buy his book
<neuro> my opinion would appear to veer towards the contrary
<mungbean> linkback mountain
<neuro> it's actually quite easy to quit linkedin :)
<BigRedS> I use linkedin only when it emails me
<neuro> i really only use it if/when i'm job hunting
 * bigcalm tickles freenode
<davmor2> freenode screams in shock and instantly finds a solicitor to sue bigcalm for harassment
<bigcalm> I've had enough of today. I want steak now
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: that sounds like a wonderful idea
<SuperMatt> I wish to subscribe to your magazine
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: well, if you had a LUG meeting tonight, you too could have steak
<SuperMatt> why don't I have a LUG tonight?
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: join the Wolves LUG, have steak!
<SuperMatt> but I don't live near wolves!
<bigcalm> I would say 'sucks to be you'. But not living near Wolverhampton is a good thing ;)
 * davmor2 steaks bigcalm ,  I didn't realise he was a vampire but you have to admire his honesty :)
<SuperMatt> is anyone here a member of a london LUG?
<mungbean> wow, who are these people buying ": EXT4 defrag tool HDD Ranger, priced at $7.99" from software centre
<SuperMatt> sure
<SuperMatt> why not?
<SuperMatt> defragging still works to some extent ;)
<mungbean> :-|
<SuperMatt> but yeah, it's one of those things that everyone thinks is the magical cure
<SuperMatt> I imagine it's because it took so freaking long, back in the day
<SuperMatt> anything that takes so long must be good
<mungbean> $7.99?
<SuperMatt> yeah, I know
<mungbean> for some snake oil?
<SuperMatt> it's silly
<directhe`> defragging helps, on moderately full filesystems
<directhe`> it doesn't do anything on mostly empty ones
<SuperMatt> which is most disks these days
<directhe`> the command "filefrags" will tell you how fragmented a given file is
<directhe`> e.g.
<directhe`> directhex@barnabas:~/Downloads$ filefrag en-gb_windows_8_x64_dvd_915412.iso
<directhe`> en-gb_windows_8_x64_dvd_915412.iso: 95 extents found
<SuperMatt> can it tell you how fragmented a filesystem is?
<directhe`> no, because that doesn't mean anything in linux filesystems
<directhe`> windows packs filesystems from the start, so any time a file grows, it becomes fragmented. linux packs filesystems randomly so often, growing files does not incur a fragmentation penalty as there is free space to grow, on a per-file basis
<SuperMatt> gotcha
<bigcalm> davmor2: you so scary
<davmor2> bigcalm: I know
 * bigcalm kicks nickserv
<bigcalm> Does w3m have an in page search feature?
<mungbean> xen server now has ARM support...
<davmor2> mungbean: ex-windows users at a guess who believe it is necessary :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think so try either /word or ctrl+g I can't remember if it's options were based on nano or vim
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you find out which it is?
<bigcalm> I ended up using wget and then less on the file :)
<bigcalm> Somebody is having a bad day on freenode
<bigcalm> 2.5 hours to steak
<christel> mmsteak
<brobostigon> :) nomnom
<neuro> dammit, now i want steak
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Tonight my steak will be at a Weatherspoon's. So you don't need to be too jealous
<neuro> s/Weat/Wet/
<neuro> sorry :)
<MartijnVdS> wetter spoons?
<neuro> vetter schpoons
<mgdm> neuro: I showed that RBS logo thing to someone from work who was working on the site for it. Turned out he designed the logo. 'Ooops'.
<neuro> hahaha nice
<neuro> what was the reaction?
<mgdm> neuro: not suitable for a family channel
<neuro> Due to the unique way Freenode is funded, other channels are available :)
 * bigcalm hugs christel 
 * christel hugs bigcalm 
<neuro> every time i get a global notice, i think the op that's sending it is /msg'ing me
<MartijnVdS> christel: ah, is that why I got disconnected from a v6 host earlier?
<MartijnVdS> Poor network..
<bigcalm> neuro: you can troll people by sending them a notice and begin it with [Global Notice]
<neuro> :)
<neuro> MartijnVdS: you're lucky, i can't do v6 irc
<MartijnVdS> but.. private messages get their own window for me
<MartijnVdS> while the op messages go in 1
<MartijnVdS> with the status messages
<christel> neuro: I SEND THEM TO YOU ONLY
<neuro> he.net block irc egress :(
<christel> :D
<neuro> christel: awwww :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: \o/ bigv.io
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: that ended up in the channel
<neuro> MartijnVdS: bloody expensive
<bigcalm> Shame
<bigcalm> :D
<neuro> and also doesn't solve my ipv6 at home problem :)
<bigcalm> I wondered if you could do it to a channel or just a nick. Back to work I go
<MartijnVdS> neuro: come to .nl, we get 100mbit fibre AND ipv6 :)
<neuro> MartijnVdS: don't make me come over there
<neuro> oh wait
<neuro> see the thing is, i have 80mbit fibre and ipv6
<neuro> actually 2x80Mbit fibre and ipv6
<MartijnVdS> but not at home/
<neuro> just that opening irc outbound is a pain in the bum
<neuro> yes, at home
<MartijnVdS> but not native ipv6 then
<neuro> no, he.net tunnel
<neuro> which is good enough, i guess
 * MartijnVdS just dhcpv6's on the pppoe link
<neuro> most of my traffic goes via london anyway
<neuro> worst case i get an extra ms or two on the latency
<neuro> throughput seems reasonable too
<neuro> bt and sky both have a habit of adopting reasonable features and policies eventually, so i've no doubt at some point i'll have native ipv6
<neuro> no idea how that'll work multihomed, but there you go
 * neuro shakes fist at bytemark
<neuro> "yay, look at us, 1GiB servers from Â£10 a month! Big sticker graphic! Â£10 a month! Look! Â£10!"
<neuro> "<font size=-100>Excludes VAT</font>"
<bigcalm> 20p
<bigcalm> Erm Â£2
<bigcalm> If it were a business expense, you could claim that 2 quid back
<neuro> lol
<neuro> i was about to say
<bigcalm> I feed them Â£18 for my yummy vps
<neuro> that would be interesting
<neuro> since i'm not vat registered
<bigcalm> You tax dodger you!
<directhe`> you don't need to register for VAT if your revenue is below... Â£53k a year, iirc?
<bigcalm> The Moon Under Water better have working air con tonight
<neuro> how is not registering to avoid paying VAT tax dodging, you pillock? :)
<neuro> directhe`: i thought it was 65k
<neuro> been a while since i looked
<directhe`> 79k!
<neuro> i've never pulled that much revenue in per annum anyway, so
<neuro> really?
<neuro> woof
<directhe`> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/start/register/when-to-register.htm
<neuro> wow
<neuro> just logged into my bytemark account
<neuro> the registered credit card's expiry date is in 2010
<neuro> so it's been a while :)
<bigcalm> When was the last time you paid them?
<neuro> probably the last time i had a VM with them
<neuro> which was some time ago
<neuro> ha
<neuro> just searched my mail for 'bytemark'
<neuro> i sold my old sony blu ray player to matthew :)
<neuro> back in 2010
<bigcalm> Can one list the commit messages from HEAD back to a given tag in git?
<directhe`> yes.
<bigcalm> I really should ask open questions :)
<MartijnVdS> git log [revision range]
<MartijnVdS> but how to specify a revision range..
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta
<directhe`> git log foo..HEAD
<MartijnVdS>            see the "Specifying Ranges" section of gitrevisions(7).
<directhe`> e.g. git log 4a46aae5878ca39f531a686e13ee630548d6b4a3..HEAD
<Darael> bigcalm: As a shortcut, omit the HEAD from what directhe` said.  If either since or until in the since..until form is omitted it'll default to HEAD.
<Darael> So git log foo.. is the same as git log foo..HEAD.
<bigcalm> Good to know. Thank you peeps :)
<bigcalm> git log v1.0.0..
<bigcalm> Perfecet
<MartijnVdS> 1.0.0?
<MartijnVdS> isn't that pre-electricity?
<directhe`> you want a tag, then, not a revision?
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Very much depends on the poject, no?
<Darael> directhe`: That is, looking at the log, what the question was, yes.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: well git is at 1.6(?) now
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Yeah, but there's no reason to assume bigcalm is wanting git logs for git itself.
<directhe`> funny thing is, it works anyway
<MartijnVdS> sure, but if "git log" outputs a version that's not its own.. what then?
<directhe`>        <refname>, e.g. master, heads/master, refs/heads/master
<directhe`>             3. otherwise, refs/tags/<refname> if it exists;
<directhe`> so if there's a v1.0.0 tag, it'll Just Work
<bigcalm> Best not have a branch called that then
<bigcalm> Yes, v1.0.0 is a tag name. Soon to create the v1.0.1 tag
<Darael> MartijnVdS: It outputs the log for the current repository, surely.  Why should we assume bigcalm is in git's own source repo, rather than a git repo for something else?
<bigcalm> I assure you that I am not in the git git repo
<bigcalm> ;)
<Darael> Precisely.
<Darael> ...would git 1.0 even *be* in the git git repo?  At what point did they start keeping git in git?
<directhe`> bitkeeper!
<MartijnVdS> directhe`: heh, we actually still use that at work
<bigcalm> 1.5 hours to steak!
<bigcalm> And I should stop working at this point
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: T-bone minus 01:30:00 ?
<bigcalm> Haha
<christel> !
<MartijnVdS> !!
<christel> i really fancy steak now
<MartijnVdS> go to bigcalm
<christel> he is so far away!
<bigcalm> I would have fillet if they had it. Will make do with sirloin
<christel> and he only offers weatherspoons...
<christel> ;)
<bigcalm> christel: this is (one of) the downside to Wolverhampton
 * brobostigon has pork steaks for tea. 
<christel> hehe lack of decent steak? :)
<christel> i texted gareth and informed him that i expected him to divert via waitrose to pick up steak for tea
<christel> :s
<christel> (i also expect him to cook it when he returns home!)
<bigcalm> Haha
<christel> i havent told him the latter part yet
<bigcalm> Will be a nice surprise for him :)
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> fsvo nice ;)
<bigcalm> New wine rack please: http://www.designlaunches.com/lifestyle/gottacha_wine_rack_dont_try_and_dart_the_bottle.php
<MartijnVdS> does anyone else have the "new" google maps on android yet?
<brobostigon> yes.
<MartijnVdS> I got it earlier today
<MartijnVdS> it looks a lot like the new web-based maps
<brobostigon> yes.
<MartijnVdS> I'll miss offline maps
<MartijnVdS> and Latitude is now in Google+ I think?
<brobostigon> osmand to the rescue,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'll just get local data sims until Neelie's plans are done ;)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (big pan-European mobile providers)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<MartijnVdS> (who.. can't charge for roaming!)
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> you can still do offline maps
<popey> you have to type "OK Maps" into the search field
<popey> apparently
<brobostigon> i heard that aswell, not tested it.
<brobostigon> doesnt work here, it just sent me to oklahoma.
<MartijnVdS> popey: oh?
<MartijnVdS> popey: sounds "OK Glass"ish.. or trollish
<popey> yeah
<popey> its in their official blog post
<MartijnVdS> can I un-cache as well?
<popey> i haz no idea
<popey> i dont have the new app yet
<MartijnVdS> the new navigation auto-routes around obstructions, apparently
 * neuro just watched jono rather tactfully negotiate ubuntu on air questions from some numpty from morocco using a rather rude nick
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<neuro> MartijnVdS: can't believe you recommended bigv.io to me earlier :)
<neuro> what a total disaster
<czajkowski> Laney: popey  http://i.imgur.com/vzKoS83.gif
<AlanBell> that is quite possibly better than a cat on a roomba wearing a shark suit
<mungbean> my wife baked a big batch of choc brownies \o/]
<brobostigon> yum
<mungbean> my workmates never appreciate them
<mungbean> seem not to eat cake
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<mungbean> 29 degrees on saturda
<Laney> czajkowski: now that is travel in style
<ali1234> "the floor is lava"
<n1md4> hi
<n1md4> can any one help with booting to openbox automatically?
<n1md4> i'm thinking startx, xinitrc.. that sholud do it, but I can't figure how to auto-start startx
<AlanBell> n1md4: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Openbox has some instructions on how to get it to turn up in the lightdm screen
<AlanBell> or maybe GDM
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomXSession#LightDM_configuration is probably the answer for lightdm
<n1md4> i've read those.  the system requirements are pretty tight, as it's an htpc, i don't want to install a display manager
<n1md4> so, ideally auto-launching startx .. is there something I could put in upstart .. or something :\
<diddledan> n1md4: is rc.local still executed at boot these days? if so then you can use that
<n1md4> diddledan: not sure, ubuntu changed a bunch of stuff (some time ago) since then I never know.
<diddledan> /etc/init.d/rc3.d/S99rc.local exists on my system so I'm assuming creating /etc/rc.local as executable bash script will work fine
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> --init.d
<diddledan> /etc/rc3.d/S99rc.local linked to /etc/init.d/rc.local
<mungbean_> does lightdm use resource when you are runnig the openbox though? its very light
<diddledan> ok. I'm wondering why ubuntu installer is failing to boot on my desktop over there --> it's running a gigabyte hybridefi system which makes it a pain to begin with, but the problem isn't with that it's after grub has been dismissed. the system seems to hang after the kernel is loaded but before the initrd is executed
<diddledan> I've had ubuntu on there before so it's definitely capable
<diddledan> I'm thinking maybe there's an issue with the fact it's currently got windows 8 installed on it which doens't like to shutdown properly (windows 8 seems to prefer to suspend to disk in response to "shutdown")
<directhex> diddledan, you can disable that
<directhex> http://www.typicaltips.com/2013/02/disable-fast-startup-in-windows-8.html
<diddledan> oooh
<diddledan> ty
<diddledan> ok, trying again with fast startup disabled
<diddledan> nope, that wasn't it
<diddledan> perhaps the bios is just fscked in the brain
<diddledan> it completely locks up to the point that the keyboard is unresponsive.. and always in the same place: dismiss grub, get a spurious warning about being unable to read a disc sector on hd0 and the "press any key to continue" message, then nada
<diddledan> pressing any key don't work, and the dvd doesn't run merrily away reading stuff, so it's defo hung
<diddledan> I've tried two separate drives. and each one has different problems - an ide using an ide-to-sata bridge gets to the point I've just detailed, and a native sata bluray drive just hangs before grub gets loaded with the flashy cursor in the top-left of the screen
<diddledan> gonna try an apple usb superdrive next
<directhex> so you're trying to boot the installer in efi mode, not legacy
<diddledan> yup
<directhex> what's the motherboard?
<diddledan> gigabyte 990-fxa-ud5 (the version before they put a real efi bios in)
<diddledan> I think real efi came in version 3
<directhex> it's entirely likely that the fake efi implementation is confusing the hell out of the kernel
<directhex> i doubt gigabyte tested much beyond windows 7
<diddledan> they're supposed to have used the tiano-core(?) implementation from intel
<directhex> parts of it
<diddledan> which is efi on-top of bios
<diddledan> they completely failed to include the shell tho
<diddledan> which sucks
<directhex> putting efi on top of bios makes as much sense as gluing wheels to a horse. silly gigabyte.
<directhex> i'm showing problems for people with that exact motherboard, dating from last year
<directhex> to be honest, if i were you, and i had a firmware made of cheese, i'd abandon getting it to boot via efi, and settle for good old 1970s BIOS emulation. well, not emulation in this case
<diddledan> mmm, cheese
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> thing is, I'm sure I've had it booting through efi before, which just makes me annoyed the more
<diddledan> oh well.. was worth the try.. back to non-efi
<diddledan> means either I reinstall windows OR virtualise it
<directhex> well, not neccessarily
<directhex> linux can boot from a GPT disk, in BIOS mode
<directhex> if you can beat your firmware into allowing it, you can have an EFI OS and a BIOS OS both installed to the same GPT disk, and usable
<directhex> the only issue is trying to boot BIOS Windows from GPT, which doesn't work
<directhex> but that's not what you're trying to achieve
<diddledan> yeah, that's not gonna happen. the bios has exactly one option for efi-related stuff: "EFI CD/DVD Boot Option" with the choice of "Non-EFI", "EFI", and "Auto"
<diddledan> auto references the size of disk rather than what's on it
<diddledan> i.e. >2.2TB = EFI; <2.2TB = BIOS
<diddledan> bit of FUD there: "EFI is essential to support >2.2TB HDD"
<directhex> weeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllllll................
<directhex> GPT is defined in the EFI spec
<directhex> and GPT is needed to support >2.2T HDD
<directhex> so it's not a total lie, more a lie of omission
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-11
<diddledan> I wonder when the watershed moment will be in a few years from now when BIOS support is dropped from mainline distros in favour of (u)EFI only :-p
<directhex> diddledan, pfft, we still haven't dropped i386
<diddledan> technically we have. we're still supporting i686 tho
<diddledan> the kernel dropped i386 a while back
<diddledan> I think the redhat-based are supporting i586+?
<directhex> point is, 32-bit?
<directhex> amd64 shipped in 2003 iirc
<diddledan> yeah, I get your point :-)
<diddledan> I think 32bit is still listed as recommended on ubuntu.com
<diddledan> unless you select server
<popey> directhex: having fun with DOTA?
<directhex> popey, really really doesn't render here
<directhex> diddledan, yeah, the recommending of i386 still is farcical imho. but there you go.
<popey> i said I'd burn 28 CDs for someone for tomorrow
<popey> i regret this
<diddledan> I'm sure we must have reached hte point that most folk that still don't know the difference between 32/64bit are probably going to be running a 64bit-capable cpu
<diddledan> and those that do know the difference can decide for themselves
<directhex> bedtime.
<diddledan> nn
<diddledan> popey, what you burning?
<popey> uh
<popey> photographs of children
<diddledan> popey: 10-15 minutes per burn, that could be in the order of 7 hours
<popey> only ~350MB per cd
<popey> nearly done, on the last two
<popey> have two computers running in parallel â»
<diddledan> phew
<popey> could have 3 but I am lazy
<neuro> diddledan: in what world are you burning CDs at 6 speed?! 10-15 minutes per?
<diddledan> neuro: +verify
<neuro> pfff
<popey> these are 24 speed i think
<popey> "maximum"
<popey> whatever a superdrive in an imac and a mbp do
<popey> haha, advert for The Net on telly
<neuro> i *still* think "what, an *HD* 3.5" drive?!" when someone says superdrive
<popey> "Starring Sandra Bullock and a bunch of men who mostly get killed"
<neuro> and i *still* think of the BBC 2 series rather than the movie when someone says The Net
<popey> it annoys me the notification sound is the same as the ios one
<neuro> and yeah, that sounds about right :)
<diddledan> wtf, who gets killed?
<neuro> ha
<neuro> i think you'll find it's the other way round
<popey> â»
<neuro> i was reading an article on eurogamer about gamesmaster the other day
<neuro> got me to thinking about techie/geeky progs from the 90s
<popey> also
<neuro> and the net was definitely my favourite
<popey> it annoys me that every single apple device I own has better audio output than every single other device I own
<neuro> ha
<popey> iphone, ipad, mbp, imac
<diddledan> gotta love that they had partrick moore as the digitised head on gamesmaster
<popey> all better than every other device
<neuro> if it makes you feel any better, the 13" mbp speakers are a bit crap
<popey> thats what i have
<Azelphur> popey: surely professional sound cards do better?
<popey> i dont own any
<neuro> but my 13" mbp is currently plugged into 27" apple lcd, sooo ...
<Azelphur> ah
<neuro> ... it sounds pretty good
<popey> name one laptop which has "professional" speakers and sound card
<diddledan> friend at work swears by Â£50 USb DACs
<popey> also audiophiles..
<Azelphur> popey: no idea, I'd get one on USB.
<Azelphur> there are some pretty decent USB sound cards, I hear
<popey> no good for portability
<Azelphur> but then I ain't an audiophile
<popey> me either
<neuro> i have a plantronics usb doohicky for my headphones, best headphone audio evar
<popey> its not the card I'm talking about
<neuro> plugged headphones into dell laptop, was tinny as hell
<popey> its the whole sound system
<neuro> plugged plantronics usb thingy in, plugged headphones in, win
<neuro> popey: not many manufacturers have built-in optical support in the headphone jacks either
<popey> true
<diddledan> not many pc speaker systems come with optical input tho
<neuro> pfff
<popey> see, this is one of the very many reasons people pay more for apple kit
<neuro> my mac mini in the living room is hooked up to home theater surround
<neuro> so optical was a flat-out requirement rather than a nice to have
<diddledan> I'll bet that gives good fuzz
<neuro> no way am i putting up with dolby prologic from a stereo source when i can have DTS-ES 6.1 \o/
<diddledan> although, everyone these days in surround systems seems to be all about maximum wattage
<neuro> i thought these days the tipping point for getting people to buy was ipod connectors / bluetooth / airplay support
<diddledan> my dad's 1960's speakers with RMS of about 20WATT can out-volume most modern-day speaker systems rated much higer wattage
<neuro> your dad's speakers were owned by the 1960s?
<diddledan> from the 1960's
<neuro> from the 1960's what?
<diddledan> era
<neuro> <- grammar nazi
<neuro> 1960 owned an era?
<neuro> interesting
<diddledan> you kill grammar on a genocidal scale?
<neuro> no, i'm megalomaniacal about grammar mistakes
<diddledan> surely that would make you a "gramma mistake nazi"? :-p
<neuro> there's no need to be too specific about it
<neuro> limits your options down the line
<diddledan> lol
<neuro> popey: it's funny, it dawned on me today that it's nearly 5 years since the ill fated fsf "hassle the genius bars" campaign, and the epic #lugradio discussion about it all
<popey> wow
<popey> time passes
<neuro> ya
<neuro> i found the irc log too, buried deep within a vm :)
<Azelphur> popey: I dunno, people have all these good things to say about apple kit
<popey> http://neuro.me.uk/2008/07/28/defective-in-the-head/
<popey> i speak from personal experience
<Azelphur> you'd be hard pressed to find my i7 with a GT 650M at 11.6"s from Apple
<Azelphur> :P
<popey> i dont care
<popey> properly
<popey> properly do not care
<neuro> neuro@cochrane:~$ ls -l logs0/Freenode/#lugradio/20080728.log.bz2
<neuro> -rw------- 1 neuro users 51562 Jul 29  2008 logs0/Freenode/#lugradio/20080728.log.bz2
<Azelphur> lol
<popey> you value raw grunt, I do not
<neuro> why would you want an i7 with a GT650M and an 11" screen?!?!
<popey> each to their own
<Azelphur> It's pretty decent build too, my friend kindly knocked it off my desk onto a hardwood floor, it survived without a scratch
<popey> there are so many variables when buying a computer
<neuro> that's like buying a ferrari and putting 13" rims on it
<popey> focussing on one single thing is mental
<Azelphur> neuro: it fits in my coat pocket, which means I can take it with me everywhere.
<Azelphur> no more laptop bag. :)
<neuro> whatever floats your boat, i guess
<neuro> what make?
<popey> AlanBell: used to do that with an OLPC
<diddledan> I need more screen estate, not less
<Azelphur> It's a Clevo.
<popey> in his coat pocket
<neuro> clevo
<Azelphur> yea, it's cool, totally freaks people out when I whip my laptop outta my pocket
<diddledan> I've got a tablet (or two) which cover the smaller form-factors
<Azelphur> because it's a scottevest, they have no idea until it just magically appears
<Azelphur> sometimes I pull it out when people aren't looking, and then they turn around and are like what...where did that come from
<Azelphur> xD
<diddledan> lol
<neuro> you have some easily freakible friends, it seems
 * Azelphur shrugs
<popey> ooooooookay
 * popey goes to bedlington
<neuro> wow, clicking on 11" laptop thingy on the front page of clevo
<neuro> goes to http://www/en/products....
<neuro> nice
<Azelphur> but yea, popey is right about me, I'm a raw horsepower kinda person, I used to cary around a Dell XPS M1730 which is probably one of the biggest, heaviest laptops ever to be on the market.
<Azelphur> and I loved it :P
<neuro> depends what you define as "market"
<popey> i had a dell xps gen 2
<neuro> i remember a few luggables that would make any xps seem like a netbook
<popey> it was big/heavy/powerful
<Azelphur> popey: you had an M17 too iirc at one point
<popey> 1600x1200, many years ago
<popey> no
<Azelphur> think it was the non-gamers edition though
<popey> only an xps gen2
<neuro> most any dell precision laptop would kick the bum of an xps in terms of mass
<popey> with the silly LEDs
<Azelphur> ah
<popey> then it died
<neuro> :(
<popey> and dell screwed me over
<Azelphur> :(
<popey> specifically the nvidia card died
<neuro> ha
<popey> specifically the heat bond wasn't enough
<Azelphur> popey: yea, loads of dells with nvidia problems from around that period
<popey> indeed
<Azelphur> my brother has a pile of them (literally)
<neuro> as dell say: "oooooh, cost ya"
<popey> exactly
<popey> it was a month out of warranty
<neuro> typical
<popey> when i called and they said it would cost i said "no thanks"
<popey> then they asked if i was happy with the service
<popey> I said no
<neuro> lol
<popey> they tried to argue with me
<popey> even put me through to a manager to argue with me
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> I was disgusted
<popey> didn't touch dell for a while after that
<popey> added them to the wall of shame â»
<neuro> :)
<popey> http://popey.com/blog/2006/07/07/my_sick_dell_inspiron_xps_gen_2_laptop/
<popey> 2006!
<neuro> i remember getting told a lovely story by dell one night
<neuro> while sat in front of a crashed, really badly broken poweredge
<neuro> and the story was how the Next Business Day support was in business hours
<neuro> so if I called after 6pm
<Azelphur> http://dr_fish.speedymail.org/techreport/w110er_open.jpg is my laptop I currently roll with, so much power in so little space.
<neuro> and said "get someone here now"
<popey> awwww http://popey.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Image403.jpg
<popey> haha
<popey> nice
<neuro> that 'now' meant 'next business day', which really meant 'day after tomorrow, sucker'
<neuro> had to explain that one to my boss
<neuro> he wasn't very pleased
<Azelphur> popey: I take it out to the local national autistic society with me every week, plug it into the ~50" TV on the wall, and we all play games in Dolphin with PS3 controllers :D
<neuro> had the acct manager almost literally over the coals, but was feck all he could do as the support was outsourced to Wang at the time
<Azelphur> so yea, lots of grunt for such a tiny machine
<popey> jeez 3 years ago i roasted my laptop http://popey.com/blog/2010/03/08/roast-laptop/
<popey> time properly flies
<popey> Azelphur: thats awesome
<diddledan> Azelphur: that's cute
<Azelphur> :)
<popey> WANG!
<Azelphur> might even have a photo of that somewhere I think
 * Azelphur digs
<neuro> popey: yeah i just read that about roasting the card, nice
<diddledan> it's like a baby puter suckling it's mommy
<neuro> yeah, Wang
<neuro> COMPUTERWANG
<popey> first heard of wang in .... uhm
<popey> my first job
<popey> 1988
<neuro> i probably saw their name in an ad in BYTE or PCW or something
<popey> they had a wang pc and a pc running windows 1.0 or something
<neuro> or maybe in a movie?
 * popey checks his dates
<neuro> "COMPUTERS PROVIDED BY WANG CORPORATION"
<popey> yeah 1988 would be okay for windows 1.0 or so
 * neuro shivers
<popey> and now bed.
<popey> â»
<popey> nn chaps
<diddledan> nn, popey
<neuro> jings dude, didn't realise you were that much older than me
<neuro> and on that note, nn
<neuro> i think i too shall hit the hay
<neuro> and also go to bed
 * popey is 42
<neuro> = 39
<popey> 40 this year?
<neuro> next
<popey> youngling
<neuro> you must have left school early?
<popey> nn
<popey> 16
<popey> first job
<neuro> i stayed til 18
<neuro> fat good it did me
<neuro> anyway
<popey> I wish i did
<popey> .sometimes
<popey> now.. bed
<neuro> lol
<neuro> zz
<Azelphur> hows 13.10 at the moment? I'm still on 12.10 and need to get upgrading lol
<Azelphur> thinking I might just skip 13.04 and go straight to .10 a tad early ;)
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o MooDoo
<SuperMatt> morning
<mungbean_> quidco gave me Â£5 for joining if i spent any money at ayn retailer :D
<mungbean_> bought an airfix for Â£5.99 from argos delivered. got Â£5.09 paid back \o/
<mungbean_> should have done this years ago
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> I've been a quidco person for years, still haven't done much with it.. always forget :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: you know you're the product they sell right?
<diplo> My friend has made about 3k in the last few years
<mungbean_> MartijnVdS: well they are giving me a cut of the referral monies
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Does toggl hate just me, or is it broken for everybody else as well?
<MartijnVdS> toggl?
<bigcalm> A project time tracking website. No worries :)
<mungbean_> arrived at work with massive tray of brownies
<mungbean_> work with a load of IT geeks, nobody interested :-|
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> Everybody on a diet?
<TheOpenSourcerer> mungbean_: Call them chocolate cake.
<mungbean_> triple choc white/milk/dark, they are finest brownies known to man
<bigcalm> Call them girl guides
<JohnRobert> hello
<JohnRobert> I got xubuntu working properly on my t-420s... the trick was disabling optimus thingi in the bios
<JohnRobert> bloody thing
<JohnRobert> it's a shame it can't just boot up and say 'try turning off optimus in the bios'
<JohnRobert> rather than refusing to work properly
<mungbean_> optimus support sucks
<mungbean> did you turn it to performance mode or stamina?
<mungbean> anyone here use a roof box for their carf?
<mungbean> *car
<popey> still not got new google maps on android
<MartijnVdS> popey: they know you work for a competitor ;)
<popey> hah
<ali1234> i haven't got it either
<mungbean> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<ali1234> seems like i can manually update through the appstore?
<JohnRobert> new maps?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it doesn't seem that different to the old one
<neuro> updated NSA API
<JohnRobert> anyone know if there's a way I can set a specific route or use 'my maps' with google maps?
<JohnRobert> I often go out on bike rides and use the navigation thing
<JohnRobert> as it can speak the directions
<JohnRobert> however, I can't specify a route with it
<popey> cant you create the route on the web and then send it to your phone?
<mungbean> can someone explain roof bars to me :$
<christel> you can attach things to them!
 * christel nods
<popey> they run along the top of the car
 * popey has moved to the back garden again
<neuro> ROOF RACK
<mungbean> i buy a roof box, i have to buy roof bars too
<christel> does your car have roof bars to which you can attach your box or do you need to get roof bars fitted?
<popey> my car has them
<neuro> yeah, you'll need the bars to attach the granny box to
<popey> \o/ volvo
<christel> i drive a volvo so i have them by def...
<christel> jinx!
<neuro> if you don't have mounting points
<christel> :P
<neuro> volvooooooo
<mungbean> i have a fcous esate. it has black trim along the top
<mungbean> do i need a roof rack as well as the box?
<neuro> you know what i'm going to say
<neuro> you'll hate it
<neuro> but
<neuro> RTFM
<neuro> :)
<mungbean> i don't have the box yet,
<mungbean> i'm gathering requirements
<mungbean> but no rails come with box
<neuro> no, but surely your owner's manual will tell you if you have mounting points along the roof trim
<neuro> and
<neuro> hang on
<mungbean> ok, so how do i mount the box to the mount points
<christel> mungbean: i suspect you will need to purchase rails/bars that fit your car
<christel> halfords sell them
<neuro> yeah, exactly, how do you mount the box
<neuro> with rails/bars, surely :)
 * neuro is confused and goes back to his mcdonald's strawberry/banana smoothie
<mungbean> they seem expensive
<neuro> they are!
<neuro> it was like 2 pound something
<mungbean> 200
<neuro> it wasn't *that* expensive
<ali1234> strawberry and banana? mixed together?
<mungbean> roof bars , not MCD
<neuro> s'only a drink!
<neuro> ali1234: yar
<ali1234> is that a real thing or did you just ask for half and half?
<neuro> it's a real thing
<ali1234> because it sounds disgusting
<neuro> it's awesome
<neuro> http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/more-food/iced-fruit-smoothies-iced-frappes.html
<mungbean> banana is often used to thicken smoothie
<ali1234> well they always used to do strawberry *or* banana milkshake
<ali1234> is it just like those mixed together?
<neuro> this isn't a milkshake
<ali1234> or is smoothie different?
<neuro> it's a smoothie
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> what are T-track fittings?
<ali1234> more liquidy?
<neuro> puree + juice + yoghurt + ice
<neuro> more liquidy, more icy
<neuro> mungbean: it's the black strip
<mungbean> as opposed to "fixing points"
<JohnRobert> popey, yeah, but I don't think I can get navigation to follow the map
<ali1234> fixing points are fixed points... the t track thing can slide in one direction... i guess
<neuro> http://www.roofbox.co.uk/roof-bars/roof-bars-racks-faq.php#question4
<neuro> "4. What is a T track?"
<mungbean> lol i'm on that site
<mungbean> "Aluminium bars have a load limit of 75kg if this is supported by the car on which they are being used."
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy World Population Day! :-D
<neuro> you what? :)
<neuro> are we celebrating the existing population or is this a call to continue adding to it?
 * popey gets jiggy with neuro 
<popey> oh, that's not going to work is it
<neuro> not really, no
<ali1234> http://www.roofbox.co.uk/roof-bars/ <- has pictures of each mounting type
<neuro> not without some sort of biological upgrade
<popey> sidegrade
<JamesTait> neuro, an attempt to raise awareness of global population issues, apparently.
<neuro> and a *lot* of single malt
<popey> haha
<popey> nah, you're not that ugly ã
<JamesTait> GET A ROOM! :-P
<popey>  /join #popey-and-neuro
<neuro> i wasn't talking about me!
<popey> i know â»
<neuro> lol
<neuro> /join #worldpopulationday-ifyouknowwhatimean
<neuro> And on THAT bombshell ...
<neuro> wow, i killed the channel
<neuro> didn't really mean to do that
<neuro> unless everyone's join those other channels ;)
<popey> heh
<neuro> s/join/joined/
<Laney> we were all doing our bit
<neuro> jpc
<bigcalm> I just want sleep
 * popey updated home minecraft server to 1.6.2 
<neuro> ooh
<popey> seems you get baby zombies and baby pigmen now
<neuro> lol
<popey> who run fast
<neuro> i need to get back into minecraft
<popey> and there seems to be a bug where animals run all the time
<neuro> been ages since i've fired it up on mac
<neuro> played it a bit on the xbox with some mates
<popey> my kids will be playing it for the next ~weeks
<popey> they break up from school today
<popey> so i thought I'd update it for them â»
<neuro> geek dads ftw
<popey> \o/
<popey> also, sophie wants to write a game this summer
<neuro> someone should set up sysadmindads.org
<bigcalm> That makes me think of Mum's Net
<neuro> oh jeez
<bigcalm> Yeah
<neuro> i wandered in there by accident the other day
<neuro> found a thread where parents were asking about buying CoD Black Ops II for their kids
<neuro> like 8-12 yr old kids
<neuro> virtually every post was facepalm worthy
<popey> haha
<neuro> i talked a couple in Tesco out of buying Cod and BF3 for their 8 year old last year
<neuro> explained to them that the ratings on the front of the boxes were there for a reason
<MartijnVdS> neuro: "Get GTA4 instead, they can murder prostitutes in that one!"
<neuro> and that they were filled with violence, blood and swearing, and they were completely age inappropriate for an 8 year old
<neuro> they were like "ohhhhhh???"
<neuro> they had NO idea
<neuro> seems to be mainly peer pressure that gets kids < 16 playing CoD
<neuro> "but mummy, all my friends are playing it!" "well, ok then"
<neuro> *facedesk*
<MartijnVdS> neuro: "You have no friends"
<ali1234> i still maintain that they're not age appropriate for anyone over the age of 16 either
<neuro> why?
<ali1234> because of the violence blood and swearing
<neuro> i mean, i don't play CoD because a) it's rubbish and b) it's generally played only by kids and muppets
 * neuro prefers battlefield
<neuro> ali1234: do you also not watch any movies with violence, blood and/or swearing?
<neuro> or tv shows?
<ali1234> it depends
<ali1234> if that's all they have, then no
<neuro> i'm not hassling, i'm just curious
<neuro> "they"?
<ali1234> it's more like "because they don't have anything else to offer"
<ali1234> they = games, tv shows and movies
<neuro> battlefield offers a stylised military simulation, encouraging tactical and team play
<bigcalm> Still waiting for Minecraft the movie
<ali1234> does it?
<neuro> yup
<popey> watched the film about minecraft?
<popey> well, about mojang
<ali1234> cos whenever i see anyone playing it it just looks like rocket spam and helicopters
<neuro> mo-jaaaaaaaaang
<bigcalm> Didn't know there was one
<popey> it was kickstartered
<neuro> ali1234: you're playing with muppets then :)
<popey> they put it on tpb iirc
<popey> with a watermark suggesting you should actually pay for the real one
<neuro> yeah, it was streamable on the xbox for a bit
<ali1234> ARMA seems to actually offer a fairly realistic simulation
<neuro> they made a big thing about it
<bigcalm> My nanny ISP doesn't let me go to tpb any more :(
<popey> other torrent sites are available
<neuro> arma is definitely more "realistic" than battlefield
<JohnRobert> try googling tpb mirror
<popey> also.. i use mirrors
<directhex> i don't play games with other people very often
<popey> http://www.piratebayproxylist.com/
<JohnRobert> many people clone tpb to other sites
<directhex> as other people are, by and large, gibbering monkeys
<neuro> popey: tut tut :)
<bigcalm> directhex: you should buy Trials Evolution and play with me :D
<popey> legal torrents innit
<neuro> oh dear god, no
<JohnRobert> I was talking about tall parent broncos
<ali1234> if rocket spamming is the best tactic then it's not the player's fault if that's what they do
<ali1234> it means the game is broken
<JohnRobert> quake2
<JohnRobert> best game ever.
<neuro> every time i play trials evolution, i end up wanting to put my joypad through the telly
<directhex> i used to play quake 2 online
<directhex> ...
<directhex> 350 ping]
<JohnRobert> me too
<JohnRobert> mine was around 2500
<JohnRobert> still pwned.
<neuro> ali1234: i'd take issue with "best"
<directhex> unreal tournament, now that i enjoyed playing competitively
<JohnRobert> anyway, back to zend framework 2.
<bigcalm> Boooo
<neuro> ali1234: the best servers are always ones where players abide by the mantra PTFO
<neuro> Play The ****ing Objective
<ali1234> best = most likely to win
<directhex> bigcalm, buying games this morning is dumb, the sale starts in ~7 hours
<popey> ooh
<neuro> ali1234: i'd only say rocket spamming was good for "winning" at team deathmatch
<bigcalm> directhex: ah, somebody at the LUG last night mentioned there was a sale coming up. Hope BioShock is in it
<neuro> you're not going to win at rush, or ctf, or conquest, etc by rocket spamming
<neuro> i think you've seen one specific scenario and conflated it to cover the entire game
<directhex> bigcalm, everything is in it. EVERYTHING.
<bigcalm> o.O
<directhex> bigcalm, you don't know standard steam sale etiquette then?
<ali1234> in a good game you're not going to win at *anything* by rocket spamming because you won't get more than 2 or 3 rockets per quad
<neuro> sale? where? steam?
<ali1234> *squad
<popey> directhex: i dont
<neuro> ali1234: um
<bigcalm> directhex: do educate me :)
<directhex> i guess this is the first steam sale for many ubuntoobies
<neuro> ali1234: squad explosive perk + ammo crates
<popey> ya
<directhex> okay
<directhex> steam sales are typically divided into three main camps:
<neuro> 1) rubbish
<neuro> 2) old
<neuro> 3) OMGOMGOMG
 * neuro runs
<bigcalm> Heh
<directhex> 1) short-term sales. these run from about 4 to 48 hours, and offer the best prices on individual games. a game *might* appear more than once as a short term sale over the duration of the entire sale
<directhex> 2) whole catalogue sales. almost every game on steam will have *some* reduction applied to it
<ali1234> neuro: and that's the inherent conflict - the gameplay mechanics are designed for kids with short attention span, while the story and content is only suitable for adults
<ali1234> neuro: thus as a whole the game is not suitable for anybody
<neuro> ali1234: it sounds like you've never actually played bf3 or any other battlefield game in earnest
<directhex> 3) publisher packs. this typically consists of all or most of the games made by a given publisher, sold at a massive bundle discount (e.g. thirty games from 2K for under 30 quid)
<ali1234> there are tv shows and movies like this too
<neuro> yes, there are dumb tv shows/movies full of violence and swearing etc
<neuro> but there are smart ones too
<ali1234> yeah
<bigcalm> My wallet is going to feel the impact I fear
<directhex> the short version is, don't buy a game unless it's in category 1 or 3 - until the final day of the sale, when it's clear that game you were waiting for wont go on super sale
<neuro> my favourite film of all time is Heat
<neuro> it's full of violence, blood and swearing
<neuro> tell me it's not an intelligent movie
<ali1234> i'm not talking about the smart ones
<neuro> ah, now you're qualifying :)
<directhex> fr'example, a game might be 33% off "normally" in the sale, but 75% off for 8 hours in a short-term sale
<neuro> directhex: I LOVE THOSE
<ali1234> well, i started off talking specifically about two games
<popey> thanks directhex
<directhex> so you're dumb if you buy it at 33% off because you didn't wait for it to be 75% off
<neuro> ali1234: and to me, bf is the smarter cousin of cod
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> butthat's not saying much
<ali1234> lol butt hat
<neuro> the publisher packs are awesome, but only if you have few or none of the games in the pack (duh)
<neuro> haha
<directhex> yes, neuro is correct
<neuro> which is why i've never bought the steam pub packs
<directhex> i bought many publisher packs in the early days of steam sales, so now they're no use to me
<neuro> because i have most of them already
<neuro> yeah, would be nice if they could calculate a discount based on what you have already
<neuro> although that may be somewhat complex
<neuro> and unfair
<directhex> that's a point to stress - in ALMOST all cases, if you own game FooBar, and buy a pack which also contains FooBar, you will NOT receive a spare copy
<directhex> it'll throw the second copy in the virtual bin
<neuro> and then virtually stamp on it
<neuro> and then emit an evil virtual cackly laugh
<neuro> "ha ha ha ha ha!"
<MartijnVdS> don't you even get a hat for it?
<MartijnVdS> (virtual hat)
<neuro> nope, not even a butt hat
<ali1234> virtual butt hat?
<directhex> for more detail, see https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4502-TPJL-2656
<ali1234> what's te deal with trading cards now? are they the new hats?
<directhex> sorta
<directhex> hats, but for any game!
<popey> i seem to own about half of the possible linux games
<ali1234> hats are for any game aren't they?
<ali1234> i mean you can only wear them in TF2...
<ali1234> but you can get them all over the place i thought
<bigcalm> Humble Bundles are to blame for a lot of those I'm guessing
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> Same here
<directhex> ali1234, there are often promotional tie-ins, i.e. "buy this game, get 3 tf2 hats"
<neuro> it would have been interesting to see what would have become of the xbox live marketplace had microsoft stuck to their guns
<neuro> could have become very steam like
<neuro> that's the only problem i have with the xbox one, small storage
<neuro> i joined playstation plus in december and the 250GB hd in my ps3 is nearly full
<ali1234> do achievments and trading cards work in steam for linux?
<neuro> of couse
<neuro> s/couse/course/
<ali1234> cos the only game i've played enough to earn any, they don't
<ali1234> i guess just that game is broken then
<ali1234> i guess TF2 works but then that's valve, you'd expect it to
<neuro> why would they make a big thing out of steam on linux and then cripple it?
<popey> 231 linux games in total, I have 68 it seems
<popey> still plenty to buy â»
<neuro> good lord, man
<ali1234> i don't think it's intentionally broken
<ali1234> just kinda half broken sometimes
 * neuro hopes his bonus comes through this week
<neuro> have my eye on a synology nas :)
<MartijnVdS> synology <3
<neuro> DS213J with 2x 2TB WD Reds for 380 quid from ebuyer :)
<bigcalm> In case anybody is interested, spex4less are having a sale on prescription sunglasses: http://www.spex4less.com/sale_offer_sunglasses.shtml
<neuro> gonna mirror it and use it as an iscsi target for an ESXi datastore
<bigcalm> About to throw 25 quid at them for a decent enough pair
<neuro> the 1TB drive in my main ESXi box is knackered
 * popey is rocking out
 * neuro is daftpunking out
<popey> http://www.last.fm/user/popeydc
<neuro> NICE
<bigcalm> I seem to have Orbital on this morning
<neuro> http://www.last.fm/user/evilneuro
<popey> we are having scrobble support in the ubuntu phone music app
<popey> love that tron legacy album
<neuro> it's awesome, isn't it
<popey> yeah, but then i really love the flim too
<neuro> </aol>
<popey> watched it a dozen times i think
<popey> when i rented it on virgin i watched it 3 times in the 24 hours you're allowed ã
<neuro> hahaha ... "Your musical compatibility with popeydc is SUPER"
<popey> yeah â»
 * neuro hugs his TRON/TRON Legacy blu ray double pack
<popey> that looks _so_ camp when I read it
<neuro> ha, so it does
<neuro> OMG, it's SOOOOOPERRRR!
<popey> Big Gay Al.
<neuro> lol
<popey> \o/ Jabber
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<neuro> see, popey, now i have a problem
<neuro> i was up for some daft punk this morning
<neuro> but when i see Won't Get Fooled Again ...
<neuro> and Ace of Spades
<neuro> YOU CONFUSE ME
<popey> yeah, they kickstarted me this morning
<neuro> this is still my favourite thing for when i need a boost in the morning
<neuro> http://www.last.fm/music/The+Crystal+Method/_/Drive:+Nike+%252B+Original+Run+(Continuous+Mix)
<neuro> 45 minutes of non stop Crystal Method
<neuro> best thing i bought off the itunes store in years
<neuro> in fact, sod daft punk
<popey> haha
 * bigcalm slides around to Zero 7
 * popey foot-taps in the garden with headphones on
<popey> need to take these off before the kids come home and run out here and scare the bejeezus out of me
 * neuro posts the first shout in the ubuntu-uk last.fm group for nearly 4 yrs
<popey> Your musical compatibility with jonobacon is LOW
<popey> quelle surprise
<neuro> haha
<neuro> morn aq
<popey> http://www.last.fm/group/Canonical
<davmor2> Morning all
<neuro> allo
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> JamesTait: I know I'm a few seconds early
<davmor2> bigcalm: told you I'd see you online in the morning, ye of little faith :D
<JamesTait> davmor2, close enough for me, I was pretty late this morning.
<JamesTait> davmor2, and good morning to you, sir.
<bigcalm> davmor2: only because I cba so far today
<davmor2> bigcalm: man having another dev on the team sure has made you lax :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: gah, far from it. A lot of my time has been spent providing support
<popey> this is odd http://www.last.fm/user/AJ2002 just friend requested me
<MartijnVdS> Your musical compatibility with popeydc is HIGH
<popey> lastfm is very shouty
<mungbean> if amazon can do autrip for CDs, i wish they would do autorip for books :D
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: that would ROCK
<MartijnVdS> though I can't get to my autoripped CDs
<mungbean> oh why?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: can't access the UK mp3 storage from .nl
<MartijnVdS> only the US storage
<MartijnVdS> yay "rights"
<mungbean> tor exit node?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: haven't tried my vps yet ;)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: also, I've already non-auto-ripped them ;)
 * popey notes everyone everywhere says amazon should do autorip for books
<mungbean> yeah and that
<MartijnVdS> popey: also vidoe
<popey> I have yet to have a conversation with someone about autorip which didn't result in them saying that
<ali1234> by autorip you mean give you a free ebook if you already have a paper copy?
<mungbean> yeah, althoug i've noticed an increase in mp3 album prices lately
<popey> yeah
<popey> i think people want to have ebooks of past purchases
<popey> not sure why
<mungbean> because reading books sucks, and reading on kindle rocks
<MartijnVdS> I did get the email that Amazon autoripped >160 CDs for me
<popey> but you've already read them surely?
<bigcalm> Save them getting out of bed and looking at the bookshelf for something to read
<mungbean> no
<ali1234> say you want to read it agan but you can't find it
<MartijnVdS> popey: re-reading books can be fun
<popey> true
<mungbean> and i'm re-reading all the hitchhikers actually
<popey> hehe
<ali1234> or it might be a reference text
<mungbean> my others are in the loft
<popey> i haven't read those for years
<popey> i listened to teh audio book versions over and over
<popey> well, audio play
<mungbean> got them for 2.29 for set of 5
<bigcalm> I put a book on my Amazon wish list and was bought it for my birthday. 1/4 way into reading the book I realised I had already read it. Just about 20 years ago :D
<mungbean> which book? noddy?
<mungbean> there's loads of books i have in the loft because i made a couple of babies
<popey> i need to clear out the books in my office
<popey> as it's being converted to a kids room this month
<bigcalm> Issac Asimov - The Naked Sun
<mungbean> i'm more inclined to read them on my tablet
<mungbean> my wife wants an extensions
<mungbean> not sure whether loft or outback
<bigcalm> popey: finally making the move to the garage?
<bigcalm> mungbean: toilet extension?
<mungbean> a new room
<popey> once the den is converted
<popey> see if we have enough money left to do the garage
<popey> if not I'll spend all summer working outside â»
<popey> like I am now
<bigcalm> Hah
<mungbean> i "did" my shed the other day..*hundreds* of snails and spiders
<mungbean> outside gives you cancer, dailymail told me
<ali1234> literally everything and everyone on the internet is named after something from a sci-fi or fantasy novel
<ali1234> every time i read one i get about 100 new references
<mungbean> reminded of a line in catch-22..
<mungbean> "where are the snowdens of yesteryear"
<mungbean> how apt
<ali1234> i was talking to my brother the other day and he was comparing LotR and something else, saying the other thing was more influential on geek culture. i think the other thing might have been star wars.
<ali1234> that's clearly nonsense. there's far more gandalfs and legolas than han solos and darth vaders on the internet
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://i.imgur.com/4Jzu0.png
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: maybe he meant MLP:FIM
<mungbean> lotr influenced other fantasy culture a lot
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: too much, imho
<mungbean> star wars influenced 8yr old boys
<MartijnVdS> it's all dwarves + humans + elves vs (same 3 but evil)
<ali1234> that picture needs to be taken further by replacing patrick stewart with jonathan frakes photoshopped into a stillsuit with vampire fangs
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: offend ALL the fandoms
<ali1234> well there's no point doing half a job
<directhex> shower handset: Â£16
<directhex> same handset with hose & riser rail: Â£20
<JohnRobert> picard ftw.
<JohnRobert> best character in anything ever.
<Azelphur> hmm, anyone have any suggestions on what everyday shop might stock magnetic tape? :p
 * Azelphur doesn't want to order it online and wait
<mungbean> B&Q?
<Azelphur> could do, there's one not too far from here :)
<mungbean> you might wanna pick up some sugru in there too
<Azelphur> what's that for?
<mungbean> its like an awesome use-once blue-tac that turns to rubber once you've applied it
<mungbean> lots of uses.
<JohnRobert> I have some of that
<JohnRobert> still not used it
<mungbean> e.g. for creating a comfrotable hand-grip around a metal tap
<mungbean> repairing a welly boot
<JohnRobert> sugaru
<JohnRobert> or something
<MartijnVdS> sugru
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> JohnRobert: you're thinking of subaru ;)
<JohnRobert> still don't know what to do with it
<Azelphur> I'm getting it for my latest silly plan, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/Photos/2013/Jun/2013-07-11-132206.jpg
<MartijnVdS> JohnRobert: they have lots of ideas on their website
<JohnRobert> wireless charging?
<mungbean> and youtubes
<Azelphur> portable battery connected to induction charger works, now I just put a bit of magnetic tape on the induction charger so it sticks to the phone, and then put the whole assembly in my pocket, :D
<JohnRobert> great
<JohnRobert> except you'll kill the compass inside the phone
<mungbean> do you need your goands Azelphur ?
<mungbean> *gonads
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: because the phone doesn't have a charger port on USB?
<Azelphur> JohnRobert: it's designed for that, the nexus orb uses magnets to hold the phone on
<JohnRobert> o
<JohnRobert> I have nexus4
<JohnRobert> it's good
<Azelphur> http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ec4kgczda18png/original.png :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: it does, but having it auto charge simply by putting it in your pocket is awesome :p
<JohnRobert> heh
<JohnRobert> good...where does the charging battery go?
<Azelphur> JohnRobert: in a different pocket, I have a scottevest so it has cable routing between all pockets \o/
<JohnRobert> oh right
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: aren't the losses greater when charging wirelessly?
<JohnRobert> cool
<JohnRobert> MartijnVdS: certainly.
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: sure
<Azelphur> I got 12k mAh in that thing, should compensate.
<JohnRobert> induction charging is really inefficient
<mungbean> does wireless charging create a lot of heat?
<JohnRobert> probably not at that level
<JohnRobert> who knows
<JohnRobert> not me
<Azelphur> I've been charging my phone for a while now and see no noticable rise in temperature
<mungbean> i'd still keep it away from my gonads
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 1.2kmAh = 1200Ah ;)
<Azelphur> mungbean: haha
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: don't use two modifiers at once ;)
 * Azelphur hides
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: please?
<popey> i plugged my battery into itself earlier by accident
<BigRedS_> is that a nexus with a wireless charger?
<popey> the charging light came on
<popey> induction charger, yes
<BigRedS> oh wow. I'm doubly wrong :/ Ages ago I made a bet that Apple would be the first to do it, and nobody would until Apple made it cool
<BigRedS> and now it's been exclusively Nokia for a while, and then whoever Google got to make that...
<popey> LG
<popey> nexus 7 does it too IIRC
<popey> (asus)
<BigRedS> LG? Google really should buy a handset manufactuer...
<directhex> ahem
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: like Motorola?
<directhex> palm pre.
<MartijnVdS> aren't there 26 competing wireless charging standards or something?
<directhex> from 2010
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: probably
<BigRedS> directhex: really? If I knew that i'd probably have bought one
<directhex> wireless charging, via optional "touchstone" dock and replacement battery cover
<BigRedS> it's a gimmick I've been waiting for for _years_
<directhex> future models shipped with the battery cover
<mungbean> kindle is a swindle. this book is available as books 1,2,3 http://www.amazon.co.uk/1Q84-Books-1-2-3/dp/0099578077 but not on kindle. you have to buy separate, and they are only ~50p less than the real thing
<directhex> mungbean, talk to the publishers
<mungbean> i clicked the link
<mungbean> various times 6 months ago
<BigRedS> I don't understand the problem. There's a dead-tree compilatoin of books 1-3 but for kindle you need to buy them separately for a total cost not a lot less than the real thing?
<BigRedS> I mean, I understand *that* problem, is that the right one?
<mungbean> no
<mungbean> dead tree comp = Â£9
<mungbean> kindle have to buy 1,2 together = Â£6 , and book3 separately = Â£6ish
<mungbean> dead tree < kindle
<BigRedS> oh, wow
<MartijnVdS> that happens a lot in the US as well
<mungbean> its 1328 pages. i don't want big book
<BigRedS> I've not seen much of that. But I only buy really cheap books with my kindle...
<popey> that makes sense
<popey> you need to get rid of dead tree books
<popey> they take up space
<popey> ebooks do not
<popey> so less motivation to drop the price to "shift" them
<mungbean> but ebook more expensive = insanity
<BigRedS> not really, they want to sell dead tree ones more than they do ebooks
<mungbean> disagree
<BigRedS> if they think people will pay more for the ebook than they will for dead tree then they will charge that way
<mungbean> ultimately they want to sell only ebooks
<BigRedS> not when they have a warehouse full of paper
<popey> ebooks have vat too
<mungbean> another option is to buy books 1,2 on kindle and get book3 from the library, but that's the only one in the library
<popey> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/9216138/Why-do-ebooks-cost-so-much.html covers it
<mungbean> i said "do you have books1,2?"
<mungbean> no, not in the whole borough. "but you have to read 1,2 before 3"
<mungbean> and it is a recentg book
 * MattJ thinks he needs more signatures on his PGP key
<MartijnVdS> MattJ: you ALWAYS need more signatures on your PGP key
<MartijnVdS> everyone does!
<popey> i do
<popey> i have like.. none
<MartijnVdS> popey: aren't there canonical geeks who can sign yours?
<Azelphur> how is 13.10 these days? is it in a usable day to day state more or less?
<MattJ> Since I sign software releases with mine, I feel it should be easy for them to find a trust path to me (else, what am I signing it for?)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's been usable for a while now
<Azelphur> I'm still on 12.10 so thinking of jumping on a bit early and saving myself some hassle
<Azelphur> cool
<MartijnVdS> 13.04 is good anyway :)
<Azelphur> I'll give the 13.10 daily a shot then :)
<Azelphur> xubuntu, that is
 * popey is staying on 13.04
<Azelphur> popey: why?
<popey> it works â»
<Azelphur> good answer :P
<popey> dont feel the need to upgrade
<Azelphur> yea, I'm upgrading because I have lots of out of date packages / lots of stuff that doesn't have builds for quantal any more
<BigRedS> Azelphur: I stuck it on my laptop last night, seems good
<BigRedS> so far
<Azelphur> thinking of that, I should probably go 13.04 too, nothing has builds for 13.10 yet
 * bigcalm ponders a key signing party at his wedding
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "My Big Fat Geek Wedding" ?
<bigcalm> Ha
<popey> excellent idea!
 * neuro is sticking with 12.04 :P
<neuro> support until 2017 ftw
<bigcalm> LTS on servers. Nuts if you do it any other way :P
<neuro> totally
<neuro> lifecycle is too short for non-LTS releases
<neuro> debian releases are too unpredictable
<neuro> red hat/centos is ... well, red hat/centos
<neuro> fedora on a server is just suicidal
<neuro> and don't get me started on gentoo
<neuro> oh good, the dogs in the houses on either side of me are talking to each other
<davmor2> neuro: so you use Sles then right?  /me ducks for the bunker
<neuro> ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, no
<neuro> now it's three dogs
<neuro> SHUT UP!
<popey> kinda wish I'd stayed on 12.04 on my laptop
<neuro> can't you backup/reinstall?
<popey> next time i get a new SSD I will go back
<popey> yeah
<popey> i resisted for so long
<neuro> well, of course you *can* but i guess the point is do you want to :)
<popey> i have backups
<popey> i could wipe right now
 * neuro is pondering ram + sshd upgrades for both MBPs
<popey> ooh, thats a thought, i could go to 16GB in this maybe
<neuro> main issue with it is that the only reasonably priced hybrid drives are seagate
<neuro> and seagate = teh suck in my experienc
<neuro> e
<neuro> although 109 quid for 750GB 7200rpm HDD+32GB SLC SSD is pretty good
<neuro> oops, 8GB SLC SSD :P
<neuro> which is apparently "enough"
<neuro> ram is probably the best thing for now, i'm constantly butting up against 8GB with so many tabs open in chrome
<neuro> jings, ram is cheap!
<MartijnVdS>  yeah.. I have 16GB in my machine..
<MartijnVdS> of the fast stuffÂ®
<neuro> 98 quid for 2x8GB PC3-12800 and 101 quid for 2x8GB PC3-10600
<neuro> lol
<MartijnVdS> I don't know PC3-12800-style.. I know mine is 2133MG
<MartijnVdS> MHz
<neuro> THE FAST STUFF. COMING TO THEATRES AUGUST 9.
<MartijnVdS> neuro: 2133 is PC3-17066, apparently
<MartijnVdS> because.. reasons
<neuro> jeez
<neuro> lol
<neuro> i still remember when a gig of ram was in the hundreds
<neuro> of quid
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I remember when a *meg* of ram was that expensive :)
<neuro> then again, i still remember getting excited over getting 512Kbps ADSL
<neuro> MartijnVdS: 256KB graphics cards!!!
<neuro> waaaoooow
<MartijnVdS> neuro: 256 colours!
<MartijnVdS> neuro: AT ONCE
<neuro> !!!!! ARE YOU MAD!
<neuro> haha, lubotu3 just pinged me
<MartijnVdS> because of the !!!?
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> "wait, you mean i can get a floppy disk drive?! for my Spectrum!?"
<neuro> "WHAT SORCERY IS THIS"
<neuro> and so on
<neuro> #include <eeeeee-when-i-were-a-lad.h>
<MartijnVdS> #include <magnets.h>
<neuro> STAY AWAY FROM MY TAPE DECK, YOU FIEND!
<neuro> hmm, email from sony
<neuro> "Few days left to claim your Xperiaâ¢ smartphone"
<neuro> ooooh
<neuro> "When you buy a BRAVIA TV before the 14th July"
<neuro> oh
 * TheOpenSourcerer recalls paying ~Â£500 for a 64*MB* upgrade to my 486DX
<TheOpenSourcerer> That was to replace the installed 32MB
<popey> Ahhh, those were the days
<popey> I probably still have some 30pin dimms here
<TheOpenSourcerer> me too somewhere
<bigcalm> Make for good key fobs
<popey> brilliant idea
<AlanBell> as does a 50 ohm terminator
<neuro> popey: i have tons of the things
<neuro> and stupid sized sparcstation dimms
<SuperMatt> man, I feel like I must be doing something wrong with isc-dhcp-server6
<SuperMatt> my clients will only get a ipv6 address if I manually run dhclient -6
<SuperMatt> if I use network managler, it just doesn't pick up an address (hell, it doesn't even seem to talk to the server)
<Azelphur> decided to be adventurous and move onto Ubuntu 13.10 \o/
<SuperMatt> good luck!
<Azelphur> yea, already having some fun lol
<Azelphur> open terminal on second X screen? -> kill all other terminals and child applications.
<Azelphur> that seems to be an issue with xfce-terminal though, none of the others do it *shrug*
<SuperMatt> ok, so it seems that network manager and ipv6 dhcp is borked somehow
<SuperMatt> I'll check for any bugs
<SuperMatt> great, I'm seeing the same issue in fedora 19 too
<neuro> maybe a problem with the dhcpd then?
<SuperMatt> I don't know
<popey> Azelphur: did you say you have a usb sound card?
 * MartijnVdS has one
<MartijnVdS> a _good_ one
<popey> oh, just remembered i have a usb headset which is "quite good"
<popey> better than the sound card in this lappy
 * popey tries
<MartijnVdS> xonar u3
<popey> \o/ much betterer
<MartijnVdS> yay
<bigcalm> Is this a new bit of text in git? "Already up-to-date. Yeeah!"
<bigcalm> I'm not sure I've seen it say "Yeeah!" before
<AlanBell> do you have to read it with an Austin Powers voice?
<MartijnVdS> it's probably a reference to that sunglasses meme?
<MartijnVdS> from some kind of US tv show?
 * MartijnVdS does't follow these things
<BigRedS> I do worry when software I use starts making cultural references that I don't get
<bigcalm> Makes you feel old?
<MartijnVdS> software should stay out of the meme business
<MartijnVdS> one apt-get moo is enough
<brobostigon> how do i use pastebinit again to pastebin the output of a command?
<MartijnVdS> command | pastebin
<MartijnVdS> ?
<brobostigon> thank you MartijnVdS
<Azelphur> popey: I had one a long while ago, use a usb headset at the moment
<directhex> steamsale? steamsale!
<MartijnVdS> *click*
<MartijnVdS> I silently repeat phrases to myself when i think i may have said something odd, when i do this i also mouth the words as i say them to myself
<MartijnVdS> uh wahat
<MartijnVdS> The Steam Store is experiencing some heavy load right now. Please try again later.
 * MartijnVdS kills his pastebuffer.
<Azelphur> Has anyone noticed in Ubuntu 13.10 ccsm settings aren't saved?
<Azelphur> (P.S. I wish Canonical would stop breaking compiz)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: happens all the time, since 11.10
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: same for all unity settings
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: weird, didn't happen to me on 12.10
<MartijnVdS> I have to re-set sloppy focus, auto-raise and several other settings ever other reboot or so
<Azelphur> fun
<MartijnVdS> there used to be a bug about it
<MartijnVdS> but I can't find it now
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1063617
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1063617 in Compiz 0.9.9 "1:0.9.8+bzr3319-0ubuntu1 regression: keeps setting gsettings keys to wrong values" [High,Fix committed]
<knightwise> hey everyone
<MartijnVdS> \o knightwise
<knightwise> hey MartijnVdS how are you tonight
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: a bit on the bored side, but fine :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: wrote this earlier this week: http://blog.vandestreek.net/2013/07/playing-with-wpa2-enterprise-using.html
<knightwise> I'm fighting the demons of iTunes and their proprietary music databases
<MartijnVdS> poor you
<MartijnVdS> stop buying Apple stuff then ;)
<knightwise> managed to make a full export of my itunes library (based on my playlist structure)
<knightwise> now trying to drag them into owncloud to see if I can access them via the browser
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: have you tried http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/ yet? :)
<knightwise> cool
<knightwise> but i don't drink beer unfortunately
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: you must know someone who does though
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: being from Belgium
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> ps : question
<knightwise> whats wrong with the sources line for 12.04 on this page : http://software.opensuse.org/download/package?project=isv:ownCloud:community&package=owncloud
<knightwise> echo 'deb http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/isv:ownCloud:community/xUbuntu_12.04/ /' >> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/owncloud.list
<knightwise> it says "mallformed url" when i add it to the files
<MartijnVdS> the extra ":" bits?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: try using %3a
<diddledan> oddness. on bootup my options for the igb module aren't applied when the kernel loads it. ("options igb max_vfs=7" in /etc/modprobe.d/igb.conf) but removing the module and reinserting it does correctly reference the option
<diddledan> my google foo is failing me
<Darael> diddledan: Something to do with the initrd? (I'm guessing blind here, but I can't see how "sudo update-initramfs -u" could *hurt*, and it *might* somehow be part of it (although I'm not sure *how*...))
<diddledan> it might be cached in the initramfs, I guess
<Darael> That's what I was thinking.  Seems a bit odd, but maybe worth a try, no?
<diddledan> ok, reboobing
<diddledan> thank god I've got a second puter :-p
<diddledan> (and a third, and a fourth, but that's by-the-by :-p)
<diddledan> yup, it was the initrd
<diddledan> it works fine now
<diddledan> well thinked
<Darael> Shiny.  Glad it worked.
<Darael> O'course, that means it would've "magically" fixed itself upon the next kernel update anyway :-Ã¾
<diddledan> initrds are a black art to me these days now they're all automated. I remember building my own custom jobbies for Gentoo netboot back in the day, but modern stuff eludes me
<diddledan> I think I'm gradually turning into a fuddy-duddy
<diddledan> soon I'll be complaining that kids don't know what they've missed by growing up now rather than in the 90s
<diddledan> remember snowy TV reception? kids today don't even understand that such a thing existed
<diddledan> for kids today, tv is either working or broken. they have no concept of partial reception
<Azelphur> Is the software center broken in 13.10 atm?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: FM radio still works like that
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: AM radio if you want to demonstrate easily :)
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> true
<Azelphur> Is there any way to tell APT to install old quantal packages from a repo, until the newer packages are available?
<MattJ> Add quantal's repos to sources.list?
<MattJ> it will just use the newer ones
 * SuperMatt has two projects on the go right now
<Azelphur> MattJ: but, there are no newer ones, that's the point
<SuperMatt> 1) reinstall the laptop with saucy and btrfs (so I can finally get some exposure to it)
<Azelphur> it's a third party repos that has no packages newer than quantal, and I'm on 13.10
<SuperMatt> and 2) reorganise the data on my disks so they're less likely to die if something goes wrong
<directhex> Azelphur, apt doesn't use distro-specific packages, it uses whatever is configured in sources.list
<SuperMatt> s/die/lose all the data
<directhex> Azelphur, assuming the dependencies resolve, it;'s fine to have a quantal ppa in post-quantal
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> yep, this creates a packaging nightmare :P
<Azelphur> looks like canonical renamed libudev0 to libudev1, it's breaking lots of things :(
<MattJ> Right, that's where you hit problems :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<SuperMatt> chrome seems to have been bitten by it
<diddledan> Azelphur: are you running your day-to-day activities on 13.10? i.e. is it stable enough for those that need some semblance of normality?
<Azelphur> diddledan: I'm trying to, only been using it for a day so far
<diddledan> ok
<Azelphur> bumped into a few bugs, but doing ok, managed to work around most of it
<diddledan> we're half-way through the dev-cycle now?
 * diddledan googles the timeline
<SuperMatt> and what a great cycle it has been so far
<diddledan> saucy sausage? :-p
<SuperMatt> I'm not ready to go saucy everywhere yet, but my lappy has been running it for a while now
<SuperMatt> I'm not going to put mir on mine until it lands sans ppa though
<SuperMatt> I do like a modicum of stability
<Azelphur> wait, is 13.10 mir?
<Azelphur> well, I'm using xubuntu 13.10, so probably not :P
<SuperMatt> it will have mir, yes
<Azelphur> yea, I have a feeling xubuntu won't adopt that.
<SuperMatt> xfce will happily run on top of xmir
<SuperMatt> probably not
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: what about high performance apps?
<Azelphur> like games
<SuperMatt> I don't know about that right now
<SuperMatt> I haven't done my own investigating yet
<Azelphur> If they break games, I loose all faith in canonical, haha
<SuperMatt> well, xmir should be able to run games
<Azelphur> spend ages working to get big companies to seriously adopt Linux -> steam finally jumps on board -> break steam
<Azelphur> :P
<Azelphur> yea, hopefully :)
<SuperMatt> might see a reduction in fps though
<SuperMatt> who knows
<SuperMatt> I certainly don't
<Azelphur> compiz is gonna be interesting too.
<SuperMatt> compiz will be gone
<SuperMatt> but it's working fine in mir at the moment
<SuperMatt> aint nobody got time for compiz
<SuperMatt> not no more, no how
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I'm all for a compiz / X replacement
<Azelphur> I'll probably cling to them until it's ready for actual use though
<MattJ> as long as it supports 54 monitors?
<Azelphur> yup
<diddledan> my main worry over replacing X is the network transparency
<SuperMatt> what I really really really really hope for is that I can still bind the top left window to expose all apps
<diddledan> losing**
<MattJ> diddledan, nobody cares :(
<SuperMatt> I think a lot of people care
<SuperMatt> but I also think there are better ways of doing things like that
<MattJ> Yes, we could use the cloud
<diddledan> they seem to suggest that vnc is better. I fail to see it.
<diddledan> I like my remote windows to integrate seamlessly
<SuperMatt> it's a tricky one
<diddledan> not appear inside a virtual desktop
<SuperMatt> small apps certainly work well using X forwarding, but I've seen fewer and fewer apps that work with it these days
<SuperMatt> at least, work *well*
<Azelphur> yea, networked X is very slow
<diddledan> firefox is one notable problem with X forwarding - run firefox remotely and you end up spawning a local binary
<Azelphur> VNC is very slow too
<Azelphur> but stuff like teamviewer (I know, horrible proprietary) is very fast
<Azelphur> I wish we had something open source that could keep up with tv :)
<SuperMatt> I've heard that some of the technical apects of X forwarding just don't match the needs of today
<SuperMatt> I can't for the life of me remember what they are though
<Azelphur> no doubt, X is like 30+ years old now
<SuperMatt> I think it has something to do with the traffic being sent back and forth, and that there's simply too much of it with modern day apps
<SuperMatt> it's a good time to be a linux enthusiast, that's for sure
<SuperMatt> I was getting worried that everything was going to become stable!
<SuperMatt> thank glob for all these changes
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> mythtv rocks most socks
<diddledan> though only when frontended by xbmc
<diddledan> or maybe I should use tvheadend?
<Azelphur> diddledan: my parents are still running plain old myth, maybe I should move them over to XBMC
<diddledan> now that you can buy the mpeg2 codec for the raspi, it makes a sweet frontend
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno_> I was a bit bummed by xbmc on the pi.  it didn't seem to be quite enough to do most menu transitions
<diddledan> yeah, the menu transitions are a bit sluggish, but video is fine
<ali1234> SuperMatt: X defines drawing primitives like lines and rectangles which compress very well due to being vector based
<ali1234> the problem is that nothing uses them any more
<ali1234> Qt and Gtk just request buffers from the server and then draw into them directly
<ali1234> when remoting that just has to be compressed and sent as-is
<ali1234> removing remoting from the newer stacks doesn't fix this problem at all, it just makes it someone else's problem
<ali1234> even though X is really bad at remoting these days, it is still better than anything else. you only have to compare with VNC to see why: VNC is really laggy and sometimes does not update at all. this is because VNC can't see which areas X is repainting so it either has to send the entire screen (probably as a really blurry JPEG) or try to compare successive frames and send the difference (which is really slow). it can't tell software not to use overlay
<ali1234> even if X has to send compressed bitmaps, it can still optimize this by knowing exactly which parts of which windows have been redrawn without doing any extra work, and it can tell clients which features like overlays are available for use.
<ali1234> Azelphur: i can X host mplayer playing SD content over 100mbit or HD over 1000mbit ethernet. can't do that with VNC, or anything else i have ever tried. sound is a problem though :P
<Azelphur> ah, that's cool
<ali1234> but if you want to stream TV, just stream the raw transport
<ali1234> this is pretty much guaranteed to be the best way to do it
<Azelphur> but then, fairly not useful for anything
<ali1234> why not?
<ali1234> mplayer and vlc can both play this
<Azelphur> if you're gonna stream video, you're gonna do it an easier way, like sftp
<ali1234> i would be highly surprised if xbmc could not
<ali1234> sftp? for a stream? wuuuut?
<Azelphur> why not? I always do it
<ali1234> because it makes no sense
<Azelphur> just sftp://user@blah in nautilus, double click file, done
<ali1234> it's a stream
<ali1234> it's not a file
<ali1234> it has no beginning and no end
<Azelphur> oh, ok then
<ali1234> you connect, you get mpeg packets
<ali1234> this is how IPTV works
<Azelphur> fun :)
<ali1234> DVB is practically IPTV anyway
<ali1234> with 6 tuners and the right software you can have everyone on your network watching every channel simultaneously and not need more than about 300mbits of bandwidth
<ali1234> regardless of how large your network is
<Azelphur> sweet :o
<ali1234> assuming all of it supports broadcast packets
<diddledan> or multicast
<ali1234> and also no need to every reencode anything
<Azelphur> ali1234: myself I just have XBMC hooked up to NFS
<ali1234> sorry yeah multicast is what i meant :)
<diddledan> I've yet to play with multicast
<diddledan> I have no idea how it works
<ali1234> it's fun
<diddledan> one thing mythtv is crap at is channel numbering
<ali1234> yeah really
<ali1234> i hate retuning because it always messes it all up
<diddledan> it's put 5* in slot 2
<diddledan> 5USA in 4
<diddledan> 5+1 in 5
<diddledan> QVC in 6
<diddledan> it's fscked
<diddledan> hmm, has my washing machine finished? I don't hear it anymore
<diddledan> ...
<diddledan> is there a simple way of getting mythtv to reorder the channels per their standard numbers?
<Azelphur> diddledan: not last I checked.
<ali1234> diddledan: there is but i forgot what it is
<ali1234> diddledan: there's also a hard way where you write a script that fixes the database directly, which is my preferred method of wrangling mythtv
<Azelphur> http://imgur.com/a/Z7VWc theres a dude selling these on #bitcoin-otc, awesome.
<Azelphur> folks who have shops here, do it. xD
<ali1234> neon seriously?
<ali1234> why not LED?
 * Azelphur shrugs
<ali1234> does anyone here actually have a shop?
<Azelphur> I'd be surprised if there isn't at least one computer shop person in here
<ali1234> i don't recall anyone ever mentioning such a thing...
<ali1234> lots of consultants and sysadmins but no physical shops
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/Photos/2013/Jun/2013-07-11-132206.jpg my latest crazy idea, btw :)
<Azelphur> USB battery, induction charger, gonna put the induction charger behind the pocket in my coat, insert phone into pocket, phone charges.
<ali1234> what is it?
<ali1234> hahaha
<ali1234> tha's genius
<Azelphur> ty :D
<ali1234> patent it immediately
<Azelphur> hahaha
<ali1234> design a way to weave the charger into the fabric of the pocket
<Azelphur> yea I haven't actually seen anybody trying this before, but it serously looks like it'll work
<Azelphur> gonna get some magnetic tape tomorrow to put on the charger
<Azelphur> then I'm hoping the phone will sorta clamp onto it and stay put
<ali1234> if you make the whole pocket be a coil then you don't even need magnets
<Azelphur> funky
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-12
<ali1234> http://incrediblethinking.wordpress.com/2013/05/01/wearable-and-chic-smartphone-charger/
<ali1234> pwnd
<ali1234> D:
<Azelphur> haha, yea
<Azelphur> pretty much exactly the same as I plan to do with my coat (I wanna induction charge the coat, too)
<ali1234> hmm wait no, it has a "dock connector"
<ali1234> so that's not the same
<Azelphur> ah :)
<Azelphur> yea, it's for iPhones and they lack NFC
<funkyHat> chic, really? That thing looks horrible.
<popey> its not nfc
<Azelphur> Maybe I should get into design and make a coat, haha
<Azelphur> sorry, induction
<popey> my wife has an induction charger for her iphone
<Azelphur> I've caught my friends illness, he keeps calling induction NFC, dammit. XD
<popey> has a thin clamp around the phone
<popey> works well
<Azelphur> popey: yea, but you have to have an ugly case thing, yea
<popey> all phone cases are ugly
<popey> induction or not
<Azelphur> popey: interestingly, inside those cases are just a pretty thin coil, it actually seems pretty simple to just pull the coil out, take the back off the phone, and dump it in there
<ali1234> NFC is not charging tech
<Azelphur> I'm gonna try and do it with my nexus 7
<ali1234> yeah lots of people do that
<ali1234> also you can just buy a replacement back cover with the coil already on it for many phones
<ali1234> someone did this exact hack on the n900
<ali1234> years ago :)
<Azelphur> sweet :D
<ali1234> you could even get one custom 3d printed
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> have you thought about the possible health effects of a high energy EM field extremely close to your body? i mean this is going to be much more powerful than the radio transmitters...
<Azelphur> ali1234: nope
<Azelphur> if I die, I blame everyone but me
<ali1234> well if you die at least you won't be able to say i didn't warn you
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> ali1234: are there any serious risks associated with that?
<ali1234> i don't know -
<ali1234> and it's pretty hard to get real answers when there is so much FUD about even wifi and power lines and all that
<ali1234> i think i'll stick with my trusty charging cable and 5 day battery life symbian phone
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> sure I'll be fine, it's just magnets.
<Azelphur> and we're never gonna figure out how they work
<ali1234> i wish bbc would leave all their documentaries on iplayer permanently. it's not like they are gonna sell them on dvd
<ali1234> if they ever repeat this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00kjq6d it explains how magnets work :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> if you believe that show, electricity was first "used" for magic tricks, because nobody could figure out how it worked or how to use it for anything
<ali1234> i don't know how true that is though
<knightwise> morning everyone
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<knightwise> hey BigRedS
<BigRedS> Ah! Good morning!
<BigRedS> How's things?
<MooDoo> morning
<MartijnVdS> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me9c8x9QkB1qdtjvlo1_1280.jpg
<BigRedS> haha
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: this is brilliant: http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/nokia%203310
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> It's FRIDAY
<brobostigon> yes,
<kaushal> Hi
<MartijnVdS> \o kaushal
<kaushal> Any wiki page for installing Java JDK 7 on Ubuntu raring ringtail 13.04?
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Hi
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: help.ubuntu.com? :)
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: so its installed using PPA?
<MartijnVdS> the partners repository, iirc
<kaushal> ok
<MartijnVdS> oh that page seems wrong
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't use update-java-alternatives
<MartijnVdS> (which you want)
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy Cow Appreciation Day! (With a shout out to Embrace Your Geekness Day tomorrow) :-D
<SuperMatt> exec -o cowsay moo
<SuperMatt>  _____
<SuperMatt> < moo >
<SuperMatt>  -----
<SuperMatt>         \   ^__^
<SuperMatt>          \  (oo)\_______
<SuperMatt>             (__)\       )\/\
<SuperMatt>                 ||----w |
<SuperMatt>                 ||     ||
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: exec -o apt-get moo | cowsay
<SuperMatt> well that's just silly
<MooDoo> ,pp
<MooDoo> moo even
<Laney> i bet it mangles it
<MartijnVdS> it does. a lot.
<SuperMatt> it does
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5867516/
<MartijnVdS> mangled cow!
<SuperMatt> ...
<SuperMatt> I'm glad you didn't paste that in here
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> howdy bigcalm
 * christel does a little dance
 * bigcalm makes a little love
<MartijnVdS> christel: â« It's friday, friday
<SuperMatt> gotta get down on friday
<christel> it is
<christel> AND
<christel> my first feature length movie has just become available to the american market (UK to follow)
<christel> WHICH IS ALL VERY EXCITING
<christel> :D:D
<directhex> "young harlots in manchester"?
<christel> haha
<MooDoo> this friday sucks.....nuff said
<christel> http://www.amazon.com/After-Death/dp/B00DM12QTM/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1373576618&sr=1-2&keywords=after+death / http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1822203/ :)
<christel> the imdb link has a trailer if you fancy a quick glance
<christel> a few harlots, not that many!
<MooDoo> christel: what's your involvent in it?  forgive my ignorance?
<MooDoo> christel: ignore that,
<MooDoo> just seen it
<MartijnVdS> associate producer, according to imdb
<MooDoo> yeah just spotted it
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<SuperMatt> morning guys
<bigcalm> Hullo
<SuperMatt> http://imgur.com/gallery/M8LwEaU/ don't make the same mistake as me and misread this headline
<MooDoo> ol
<SuperMatt> ol?
<SuperMatt> ordered list?
<MooDoo> lol i meant doh!
<MartijnVdS> </ol>
<SuperMatt> thank you for closing your tags
<SuperMatt> one thing I hate (and which is prevalant on the internet these days, is when people don't close their brackets
<SuperMatt> tags annoy me just as much
<MartijnVdS> )
<popey> {
<MartijnVdS> }
<SuperMatt> *phew*
<popey> {{({({{({(({({({{{({({({({({({
<MartijnVdS> :(
<popey> :D
<SuperMatt> argh!
<MartijnVdS> <
<SuperMatt> why so mean?
<MartijnVdS> Â«
<SuperMatt> well, I'll just go and cry into my cup-a-soup now. I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY
<popey> \o/ great success
<neuro> at least you have a cup a soup
<SuperMatt> I don't really
<SuperMatt> it just seemed to be the most humerous thing I could cry in to
<neuro> so you're a soup liar?
<SuperMatt> I am a soup liar
<neuro> you have soup for bones?
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders what to have for lunch...
<SuperMatt> I've got a wrap
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ask AlanBell ;)
<neuro> TheOpenSourcerer: i would go with ... food
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm at home
<TheOpenSourcerer> He's in the office
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: sure, but he has "food" :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed MartijnVdS
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can't really leave the house. Windows have been painted and can't be shut for a few hours yet. Only me here. :-(
<SuperMatt> omg, someone who *didn't* paint the windows shut?
<SuperMatt> I hate when people do that
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<neuro> open door, leave house, close door, lock door, forage for food
<MartijnVdS> neuro: .. have house cleaned out by burglars who come in through the open window
<neuro> well, that's a risk
<MartijnVdS> (and leave paint everywhere they go)
<neuro> TheOpenSourcerer: nowhere near you that delivers food?
<SuperMatt> just eat ftw
<SuperMatt> I suggest having a curry for lunch
<SuperMatt> or a kebab
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was rather thinking of making something from what is in the cupboards/fridge/freezer
<neuro> my local domino's opened 45 mins ago
<TheOpenSourcerer> Domino's are a scurge on the planet. Crappiest, most expensive junk you can buy. They are really bad pizzas. Disgusting.
<neuro> in your opinion
<TheOpenSourcerer> IMHO of course ;-)
<SuperMatt> papp johns are winning my heart at the moment
<bigcalm> directhex: Bioshock Infinite is at 50%, buy now or wait for it to be 75%?
<neuro> czajkowski: hey, i see skynet's working again
<directhex> bigcalm, it won't be <50% until the xmas sale.
<neuro> SuperMatt: my nearest papa johns is too far away to deliver
<czajkowski> I'm back :-)
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: is 75% a sure thing?
<czajkowski> skynet has risen !
<SuperMatt> touch choices
 * MartijnVdS hides
<neuro> czajkowski: and in da panic, did dey try to pull da plug?
<bigcalm> directhex: I didn't think it would get much better than the 50%. Ponder ponder
<SuperMatt> awww man, I think I might order papa johns for dindins tonight
<SuperMatt> thanks guys, you're a real help
<neuro> SuperMatt: bah
<czajkowski> neuro: blame the air con :)
<czajkowski> Irish servers :)
<neuro> lol
<neuro> http://securityreactions.tumblr.com/post/55173857845/trying-to-explain-to-someone-how-dos-works
<bigcalm> Woo, my phone is repaired and ready for collection. I've missed having it in my pocket
<neuro> f'nar
 * TheOpenSourcerer radiates last night's left over Tuna Pasta Bake, and grabs a TS Butch T from the greenhouse.
<bigcalm> Alice Madness Returns - any good? I enjoyed the 1st one
<SuperMatt> so so
<SuperMatt> I would just stick with fond memories for the first
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<SuperMatt> there's really nothing that I want in this sale
<SuperMatt> which is good for my wallet
<bigcalm> Heh
<neuro> i found out yesterday that my quarterly bonus won't be in my grubby mitts until this pay day, so i'm buying *nothing* until then :)
<neuro> at least, nothing gadgety/gamey/appy
<neuro> cos, you know, food
<mungbean> bonus hah
<mungbean> i remember those days
<popey> \o/ bonus
<DVRR> hi
<neuro> popey: once a quarter, if i meet my perf targets ;)
<neuro> HELLOOOOOOO
<DVRR> i have  ubuntu apache2  server  small   problam  could  you  solve
<neuro> depends what the problem is ;)
<neuro> http://guff.zensoft.net/jeopardy.think.mp3
<neuro> DVRR: whenever you're ready ...
<DVRR> sorry  i have  tomcat  server also   i am redirecting to   port 8080 to  80
<DVRR> my website  access  www.example.com ,example.com  both   but   www.example.com   some  urls   are  not  working
<DVRR> example.com  all  urls  working
<neuro> do you have two separate VirtualHost configurations for www.example.com and example.com? Or are you using a ServerAlias for one of them?
<DVRR> no  i have  only  1  server and  1 VirtualHost configuration
<DVRR> i am  configuration   tomcat  cluster  different  ports
<neuro> you should check your error logs and see what happens when you have problems
<DVRR> which  log   tomcat  or apache
<neuro> look at whatever you have defined for ErrorLog in your apache config, and also look at your catalina logs for tomcat
<DVRR> logs  no  error  show
<neuro> what do you mean by "not working"?
<neuro> there's not a lot of info to go on here
<popey> http://madebynathan.com/2013/07/10/raspberry-pi-powered-microwave/
<popey> brilliant
<neuro> hmm, guess DVRR didn't want help after all :(
<neuro> they'd perhaps have gotten better luck in #ubuntu-in
<neuro> popey: that is total total class
<neuro> i've always wondered why modern microwaves don't have "cook at A power for B seconds, stand for C seconds, cook at D power for E seconds" command queuing ability
<MartijnVdS> because they have "easy defrost" programs
<MartijnVdS> instead
<neuro> that's different though
<MartijnVdS> Those are pre-programmed queues like that
<neuro> yes but defrosting != cooking
<popey> yeah, ours does
<MartijnVdS> with some parameters (weight, type of food)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: mine has "auto-cook" mode
<MartijnVdS> neuro: as well as auto-defrost
<neuro> hmmm
<popey> just need replicators and we're done â»
<neuro> in fairness, my microwave is coming up on 13 yrs old, so i can't say i've looked at current options
<neuro> YES
<popey> yeah, ours is ~12 years old too
<popey> need to replace the bulb
<neuro> "Computer, coffee, Jamaican blend, double strong, double sweet"
<popey> it's been blown for ~8 years
<Laney> haha
<Laney> fsvo "need"
<MartijnVdS> neuro: <computer serves tea, earl gray, hot instead>
<neuro> "Computer, prune juice, extra large"
<davmor2> Yay power outage day in Wolverhampton
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: yay!
<neuro> "Computer, raktajino"
<popey> speaking of which... http://jim-nielsen.com/sandbox/old-interfaces/
<popey> "Screenshots of computer interfaces from old movies"
<neuro> yay
<SuperMatt> I know this, this is unux!
<neuro> SuperMatt: quote fail
<SuperMatt> oh bums
<popey> wasn't jurassic park before you were born SuperMatt ? â»
<SuperMatt> no!
<neuro> http://startreksysadmin.tumblr.com/post/38064860305/bynars-love-unix
<SuperMatt> I saw it in the cinema, thank you very much
<Myrtti> neuro: our microwave does have that
<Myrtti> (command queuing ability)
<neuro> bah, screw you guys and your 21st century microwaves
<Myrtti> well it cost about 150pounds so it better have all the bells and whistles in it
<SuperMatt> ...
<SuperMatt> why?
<Myrtti> why did it cost that much?
<SuperMatt> why would you spend that much!
<neuro> why do people buy Macs instead of Eee PCs?
<neuro> why do people buy Audis instead of Smart cars?
<Myrtti> http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/panasonic-microwaves-2154-commercial.html
<SuperMatt> but my Â£20 one from argos does most of that
<SuperMatt> it boggles me
<Myrtti> I do doubt that
<SuperMatt> what does it do better, that's what I really want to know
<neuro> the heat is licked onto the food by kittens
<Myrtti> "Youâll find Panasonicâs Inverter technology on most of our microwave models. This gives constant energy on medium and low power settings (instead of switching on and off as traditional microwave ovens do) - providing the perfect, even cooking process for your food whilst saving energy."
<SuperMatt> ah
<Myrtti> good for making porridge for example
<SuperMatt> all right, that's cool
<popey> hehe
 * popey hugs his 150 quid toaster â»
<Myrtti> the grill and oven functionality is great too when we're having a Fray Bentos pie and two baked potatoes
<popey> nom!
<Myrtti> quicker to heat up than the big oven
 * MartijnVdS has an IKEA microwave/oven/grill combo thingy
<neuro> i wonder if i can get a samsung one with android ...
<neuro> Samsung Galaxy Oven
<Myrtti> and it even makes a sound when it's done heating up
<neuro> i still can't get my head around combination microwave thingies
<neuro> like, can you use it like a "normal" oven?
<Myrtti> speeds up making baked potatoes
<MartijnVdS> http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/60182568/ <-- mine
<neuro> that doesn't really answer my question ;)
<MartijnVdS> well not quite.. but almost
<neuro> my "real" oven is old and crap
<neuro> wow, well this was predictable, i guess: http://cooking.stackexchange.com/
<popey> I see the steam sale doesn't extend to kerbal space program much
<popey> only %10 off
<ali1234> don't they shuffle the offers around?
<Darael> I couldn't make the KSP demo work properly.  Launched from steam, it crashed, and launched directly from its folder in .local/share/Steam the design thingy wouldn't work properly.  I couldn't connect with the ends of components, only their sides.
<popey> demo worked here
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's our apprentice reunion this weekend - keep awau from the Swan tomorrow night popey ;-)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: I'll drop by at closing time to see you injure yourself
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks
<popey> â»
<MartijnVdS> neuro: http://madebynathan.com/2013/07/10/raspberry-pi-powered-microwave/
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Picrowave ;)
<popey> 12:38:44 < popey> http://madebynathan.com/2013/07/10/raspberry-pi-powered-microwave/
<popey> keep up
<popey> â»
<ali1234> anyone got a quantal test system handy?
<ali1234> if you do, please install arora, run it, and go to http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/mathjax.html and tell me what you see
<popey> i can a bit later
<BigRedS> I've got one somwhere down an rsync list
<ali1234> !info libqtwebkit4 quantal
<lubotu3> libqtwebkit4 (source: qtwebkit-source): Web content engine library for Qt. In component main, is optional. Version 2.2.1-4ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 5629 kB, installed size 23785 kB
<redtape|renegade> OT | Seem to be too many aphids around this year.. [Question: anyone seen many Waaaaaasps this year ?]  Sitting here with my netbook on the prom./garden  I note the difference in aphididae ..
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: only near you :P
<popey> ali1234: installing
<popey> ali1234: i see two lines { 0
<ali1234> hmm ok thanks
<popey> np
<ali1234> kind of expected that, it has the old qt version
<popey> anything else?
<ali1234> no, not unless you're highly familiar with the patches ubuntu has done to qtwebkit 2.3.0
<popey> nope, but I know who does
<popey> but they're end of day
<ali1234> i need to do more tests anyway
<ali1234> building src.orig at the moment
<ali1234> i actually did a LD_PRELOAD with the qtwebkit from debian testing and it fixed the bug
<ali1234> unfortunately debian has 2.2.1 as well
<mungbean> given an id_rsa file, how do i tell the key length and strength?
<SuperMatt> I've found you can see it in gnome-keyring
<SuperMatt> but from the command line, I don't know
<mungbean> these phi processors are not very user friendly
<mungbean> have to build your own kernel drivers and update flash before can use
<mungbean> update *firmware
<mungbean> and nothing works as expected
<mungbean> less /proc/cpuinfo ...
<mungbean> processor	: 239
<mungbean> vendor_id	: GenuineIntel
<redtape|renegade> How do I export a clip off audacity again ? .. seems to export the full track ..
<redtape|renegade> no fun to be had ! redtape dloads starch ebook.
<MartijnVdS> \o/ weekend
<popey> \o/
 * MartijnVdS tries to decide what kind of geek project to undertake this weekend
<MartijnVdS> (last weekend was radius+wpa)
<popey> write me a qml app â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: but I have no idea what kind of app
<popey> i do!
<MartijnVdS> then write it :P
<MartijnVdS> popey: but.. what kind of app do you have in mind?
<redtape|renegade> potholes ?
<ali1234> popey: does QML support mathematical markup?
<popey> I'd like a simple qml demo using box2d with a bunch of buttons on the screen which cause shapes to fall down and pile up at the bottom
<popey> pass
<ali1234> also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euSxmVhiG60
<popey> oh thats delightful
<ali1234> you can't make a "simple" box2d demo with QML because you can't use box2d without writing a C++ -> QML wrapper
<ali1234> that demo uses bullet of course
<MartijnVdS> popey: so.. tetris?
<ali1234> but the theory is the same
<popey> MartijnVdS: no, randomly, so they pile up like ali1234's video
<popey> ali1234: ken made the box2d wrapper
<MartijnVdS> isn't that a lot of physics code?
<ali1234> then the QML is like 3 lines of code
<popey> well packaged it
<ali1234> actually that is true of pretty much any QML app
<popey> pretty sure it's packaged in our ppa
<ali1234> in reality nobody writes entire apps in QML
<popey> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/qml-box2d/qt5
<ali1234> they write a widget in C++ that does "whatever" and then dump it in the middle of a QML area. two lines of code
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/collection its in there
<popey> yeah, i wanted a pure qml example
<ali1234> yeah the thing about that is nobody in there right mind would build a game against that box2d plugin
<ali1234> because it's not going to be available on sailfish for example
<ali1234> or it might be available but subtley incompatible
<ali1234> so what they'll actually do is roll their own wrapper and then ship with their own copy of box2d
<ali1234> when i made this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CcfG5uxSOw i used libode. had to port it myself of course
<ali1234> but it was not worth it to me to maintain it
<ali1234> by port i mean i packaged it
<ali1234> but this was a bad idea in hindsight because nobody has time to write software *and* maintain packages
<ali1234> so in future i used bullet which is BSD and i can just static compile it
<ali1234> also lol @ comments
<ali1234> popey: how about if instead of shapes it's jono heads?
<ali1234> and when they bump they say "community!"
<popey> a selection of heads would be nice
<popey> hah, yes
<ali1234> well i already have steve balmer and linus
<ali1234> making more heads is also quite easy, you just need two images and some audio clips
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: one of each of the podcast hosts saying "hiya"?
<ali1234> that means someone would have to listen to the podcast tho :P
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I've heard rumours of people who listen to it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you could just ask popey ;)
<ali1234> so how do i install qml-box2d?
<ali1234> do i have to add the non core ppa?
<ali1234> ok got it
<ali1234> right i'll look at this later. going for dinner now
 * MartijnVdS submits a photo to the Saucy Wallpapers group
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: that's a misleading name, those wallpapers aren't saucy at all
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: o_O
<popey> heh, first thought I had too BigRedS
 * DJones wonders how many "saucy wallpapers" submitted will turn out the NSFW
<MartijnVdS> DJones: we already had those in warty
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Too much info there, I don't want to know what you had in warty :)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: stuff like this: https://sites.google.com/site/jozmak/ubuntu-calendar-march1.jpg
<MartijnVdS> http://linuxers.org/~iart/ubuntu-calendar
<BigRedS> none of those are warty
<MartijnVdS> are they hoary then?>
<BigRedS> hahaha
<MartijnVdS> breezy?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: How'd it taste? :)
 * czajkowski tickles davmor2 
 * davmor2 points out that he has be sat sweating in the heat all day, and now wonders how quickly czajkowski stops
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: maybe she'll just keep going longer now she knows that
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> I'm evil not that evil :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: you mean you're evil not twisted
<czajkowski> no that's you and neuro :)
<MartijnVdS> nah they're just twisted, not evil
<neuro> huh?
<davmor2> czajkowski: Are you trying to say I'm evil
<czajkowski> trying/saying
<czajkowski> neuro: ello :)
<neuro> huh?
<davmor2> czajkowski: Arrrrrrrrrr thanks I didn't know you cared
<MartijnVdS> has anyone tried "Stealth Bastard"?
<MartijnVdS> popey: ? :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Yes it's addictive
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: it has Braid-esque annoyance and simplicity but be prepared to die at least once
<MartijnVdS> I haven't tried braid 8-)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: well if you like Stealth you'll love braid :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: ok :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: ask bigcalm he'll tell you what stealth is like we were on about it at the lug meeting on wednesday
<popey> MartijnVdS: i have, briefly
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's on sale
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: om nom nom :)
<MartijnVdS> :)
<Azelphur> Anyone got software center working on 13.10? it seems broken for me
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: lemme try
<MartijnVdS> wfm
<Azelphur> oO, ofund a guy with the same issue as me https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1200674
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1200674 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software center crashes on startup" [Undecided,New]
<GentileBen> AlanBell, my Welsh friend.
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS, my Dutch friend.
<StevenR> hrrm. Can I safely expand /boot? It's an LVM LV on top of an MDraid RAID1 array
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: does that even work?
<MartijnVdS>  /boot on LVM
<StevenR> yes
<MartijnVdS> in that case.. what happened when you tried? ;)
<StevenR> I haven't :P
<StevenR> I'd like to know it's safe first :P
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: psh, details! ;)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: apparently, grub can read LVM and MDraid drives by itself
<MartijnVdS> grub2
<StevenR> yup :)
<MartijnVdS> so it depends: can it read *all* of LVM, or just the "easy" bits
<StevenR> yeah, exactly
<MartijnVdS> #grub2? :)
<StevenR> it's a 2TB md0
 * MartijnVdS has no idea, other than "try it" and "rescue CD if it breaks"
<MartijnVdS> and "never use separate /boot again"
<xnox> MartijnVdS: only easy bits- linear volumes with no stripping as far as I can tell.
<MartijnVdS> xnox: so no "holes" in volumes?
<xnox> or something =)
<Azelphur> popey: you're handy with rsnapshot, do you happen to know what's wrong with this? backup  azelphur@darth-vader:/home/azelphur/    darth-vader/    exclude=Steam,exclude=ISOs,exclude=Music,exclude=.local,exclude=Downloads
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: probably the tab
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's always the tab character :)
<Azelphur> pretty sure I have tabs in there
<Azelphur> haha, there was a space between backup and the address
<Azelphur> and that was a copy paste line, so something must have messed with my paste buffer, rude.
<popey> haha
<popey> it's always with the tabs
<MartijnVdS> "How wude!"
<popey> stupid rsnapshot
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> there we go, moved my backups onto my NAS, and got decent backups for my desktop now
<ali1234> if you have a text file with tabs and open it in nano in a terminal and copy paste it, your tabs are gone
<ali1234> this is really annoying
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's what I did, fun
<MartijnVdS> vim ftw
<ali1234> or at least it was until i switched to using spaces for indentation everywhere
<ali1234> now it only happens with makefiles
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Gah makefiles!
<ali1234> vim won't help you
<MartijnVdS> (debian/rules mostly)
<ali1234> afaik
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: gvim pastes tabs
<ali1234> well so does gedit
<ali1234> it's the terminal emulator that screws it, when you copy
<MartijnVdS> but gedit doesn't do :wq properly
<MartijnVdS> My files end up full of :w when I use it
<ali1234> it's funny because my files end up full of ^D^D^C^DS^C^DC^^EB^FDEDNEARGHHOWDOIQUIT whenever i use vim
<ali1234> you can paste tabs into nano just fine, you just can't copy them out
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: probably if you shift-paste it works in nano as well
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: oh wait *out*
<MartijnVdS> ah
 * MartijnVdS learns to read
<SuperMatt> http://imgur.com/gallery/XcTuSHm
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: is that you? :)
<SuperMatt> no :(
<xnox> So baby come with me and be my Ooh La La =) http://youtu.be/NVcSNnqRD0c
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-13
<MartijnVdS> Anyone on Saucy that can confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/1200846
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1200846 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Notification bubble repeat several times, and start to "lag behind" when skipping songs" [Undecided,New]
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^?
<DVRR> hiii
<DVRR> i have  problem in  samba server  could you  help  me
<MartijnVdS> DVRR: can you explain the problem?
<DVRR> automatically  remove  files & folders  in my samba  share folder    i given  permissions  ()
<DVRR> read & write
<DVRR> some one deleted or   it's remove  automatically
<MartijnVdS> DVRR: I don't understand what you're saying
<DVRR> i can't  understand
<MartijnVdS> do you want to automatically remove folders
<MartijnVdS> or does samba already automatically remove folders, and you want to disable it?
<MartijnVdS> or are the permissions on newly created empty folders wrong?
<DVRR> fast  four  days  file  remove  automatically
<MartijnVdS> DVRR: what's your native language?
<DVRR> today  copy  some files  tommory  not  showing
<DVRR> i am an indian
<MartijnVdS> DVRR: have you tried asking in #ubuntu-in?
<DVRR> sorry  could you  help me
<MartijnVdS> I'm trying to, but I don't understand what you're trying to ask
<DVRR> i have  samba server  and i have  given sharing   one  folder
<DVRR> ok
<MartijnVdS> DVRR: ok..
<DVRR> that  share folder  access  20 members users   ( read and write)   Example-: yesterday  i  copied  some  files   in  share folder  but  today  not  avaliable
<popey> MartijnVdS: will try to reproduce
<redtape|renegade> OT | Time to sell up to 100 of those tech components that I've tried to Frankenstein into a desktop this weekend as a project :::  http://mail.ebay.co.uk/r/mail/19e3f6II3c85c5II14fa5478a06II4 :::
<ali1234> i think that's a link to your private ebay inbox
<redtape|renegade> ali1234: Realy .. it doesn't say a message ?
<ali1234> no it just redirects to the main home page
<ali1234> oh wait no
<redtape|renegade> oh .. with grumbles .. I'll retry ..
<ali1234> it's just no listing fee time?
<redtape|renegade> Yeps .. Up to one hundred items :: http://bit.ly/13WN0PH :
<redtape|renegade> theres usually a fall out with a lot of listing under the bracket 'no reserve' at intervals of 1 day, 3 days , 5 days , 7 days .. from this weekend .. I bookmark the search 'no reserve' in my browser toolbar to catch them.
<ali1234> that's a really good tip
<redtape|renegade> ali1234: then .. there is a list of 'saved sellers' like this guy .. that I get weekly updates from  .. \o/ support the little guy ! ::   http://bit.ly/15pSIGG ::  This gives the *actual price of 2nd hand goods* from the likes of cash-converters or their counterparts. But seriusly; hoarding is a sign of poor men.health .. so set your limits.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: We (The IoMan) should be on Dutch TV sometime soon .. :: http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/dutch-tv-crew-films-horse-trams-1-5838262 ::
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: that program is usually recorded way in advance :)
 * redtape|renegade is amazed that people are cashing-in on the poor sprogg before it's even born .. redtape feels for KatiÃ« .. :: http://etsy.me/12L30iy  ::
<escaper_> Hi, anybode here ?
<redtape|renegade> y6epsie ..
<escaper_> how to delete something from /opt directory ?
<escaper_> I want to remove non-empty direcotry
<redtape|renegade> 1/5get inn the directorty but right click > paste into terminal using 'cd' in front ..
<MartijnVdS> escaper_: how did it get there?
<redtape|renegade> 2/5 type pwd
<redtape|renegade> 3/5 type ls
<escaper_> I put it in there with cp commad
<escaper_> command*
<MartijnVdS> escaper_: exact command please :)
<redtape|renegade> 4/4 rm ,<name +tab 4 short>
<escaper_> just cp folder /opt
<redtape|renegade> 5/5 type ls to check.
<MartijnVdS> escaper_: then cd /opt; ls; rm -r foldername (from ls output); ls
<MartijnVdS> as redtape|renegade said :)
<escaper_> I'll try
<escaper_> great, works!
<escaper_> Thank you very much! :D
<MartijnVdS> escaper_: "rm" = "remove", "-r" = "recursively"
 * redtape|renegade takes bitcoin high-fives.
<MartijnVdS> escaper_: (so, everything in the directory first, then the directory itself)
<MartijnVdS> escaper_: if the directory was empty, "rmdir" would also have worked (remove directory)
<ali1234> cp won't copy a directory without an extra argument
<ali1234> rm won't delete a directory without an extra argument
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: true
<ali1234> the extra argument is in fact the same in both cases :)
<escaper_> I followed one instruction on the web taht was obviouslly wrong
<escaper_> :D
<escaper_> thank you guys,
<redtape|renegade>   Aaaaand he's over with it.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: almost as if someone designed it that way
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: well actually i think in the original design cp used -R and rm used -r and then -r was added as a synonym to cp by someone who wasn't completely crazy
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that almost explains how git works as well
<ali1234> it does?
<ali1234> git does a lot of things... which particular thing do you mean?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: all kinds of conflicting but similar options for similar operations
<redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: Conflict (?) Martijn  I added some tracks to my Chillout pl/list if you want to add them to your "Chillax" channel :) :: http://open.spotify.com/user/user1nadine/playlist/4PJsL5GGokQ3BBRuH1Pko7 ::
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: let me check
 * redtape|renegade supposes it's Turtle Soup today .. #90-ish down the list
 * MartijnVdS listens to the new Demoscene Time Machine EP
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: http://music.demoscenetimemachine.com/
 * penguin42 roasts
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: *dark* roasts?
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/en/our-beer/ ;)
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: ^
<redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: The music WebLink beats : http://relay3.slayradio.org:8100/ : On VLC **anyday**  .. highFive. o/
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think breakfast should be first :-)
<brobostigon> interesting app for android, swapps, a definatly interesting launcher.
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it's quite a heavy beer ;)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: also, contains coffee, so it'll wake you up
<redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: Both WebLinks you gave aren't able to be bought (for the IoMan) either cos it's not setup or *dropdown list* disorder (-Miss-IsleofMan syndrome)  .. but I'll bookmark them so a Dutch friend can [post when I hassle him :S
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: please send them an email (on the contact page) describing the problem :)
<redtape|renegade> Will do .. I'll send a pack to the Seattle  too .. C.Pirillo required a lot of caffeinated beer in fall-season last year.
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: cool :) if you tell them that, they might throw in extra promotional materials
<redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: redtape still pines for  Maaza softdrinks from Holland   ::: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maaza ::: .. but doesn't know of an online-store or someone near Bodegraven :: http://bit.ly/18cJ0dr ::
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: I just passed their warehouse in Bodegraven on my way home
<redtape|renegade> Is it worth shopping with you, then :D
<redtape|renegade>                      ^ ??
<MartijnVdS> I don't know the stuff
<redtape|renegade> There was a guy on ebay .. who sold me a rabbit bios tinkpad from Hollande .. but he's dropped off the net , of late.
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Maaza-Mango-Juice-250ml/dp/B009OAOWI8
<redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: Good try .. but it's the fizzy pop pineapple/mango I'm after .. I need the effervescence.
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: I don't think Maaza has fizzy bits
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: do you mean http://www.enjoymaaza.com//products/?taste=6 ?
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: or http://www.enjoymaaza.com//products/?taste=5
<redtape|renegade> redtape|renegade: slaps MartijnVdS for showing him his continental -elixia & not giving a stall to buy from .. and zooms in on S.France while he reaches for his Ccard :: http://www.elixia.fr/en/limonade.php?limonade=classique ::
 * redtape|renegade goes all spanglish with ChampiÃ±ones Al Ajillo from Tesco Tapas [seventy-four% off, of-course] :: Â¡ and wonders where "Concha GarcÃ­a "  is from ?Â¡ :: http://bit.ly/11L0u0M ::
<PaulW2U> a434vfw
<PaulW2U> oops, sorry for the random text  ;o)
<MartijnVdS> PaulW2U: sure that's not your password? :)
<penguin42> it probably is, but the question is what for
<PaulW2U> :) you'll never know
<Myrtti> obviously it was a cat
 * AlanBell ponders password protected cats
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: but.. but..
<funkyHat> â¢)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: the internet demands publicly visible cats
<funkyHat> Anonymous access cats
<redtape|renegade> AlanBell: Cats can be well prepared :D  ::https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/cnCx6.jpg ::
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: but.. but..
<MartijnVdS> cats don't NEED that.. they always land on their feet anyway
<redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: He asked for a password .. I gave him one in the file name of the picture/j-peg .. that is all.
<redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: Bang Bang Bang .. I shot yur butt  's. ::  http://ow.ly/mVDxb  ::
<popey> Gosh. Warm afternoon.
<MartijnVdS> In July, in the UK?
<MartijnVdS> popey: Are you sure? :)
<popey> I KNOW!
<popey> kids in the pool
<popey> I was in there for half an hour earlier
<brobostigon> wet popes.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "soggy popey"
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep.
 * redtape|renegade throws a beach-ball in the paddling pool :: http://bit.ly/1ajpZqt ::
<mungbean> my normally reserved 3yr old has taken to running around the house butt naked in this weather
<MartijnVdS> around it, or around it?
<redtape|renegade> mungbean: ignorance is bliss.... ::: http://bit.ly/1ajAIRN :::
<MartijnVdS> !family | redtape|renegade
<MartijnVdS> (the link says "NSFW")
<redtape|renegade> yeah .. are you working today ?
<MartijnVdS> no, but this channel is supposed to be family-oriented/family-friendly
<redtape|renegade> there's hardly anyone on the net today .. I'm sorry for the link .. but it is well prepared.. as far as the alert-notification.  I also used the first word as to ignore the other page.. if you don't feel such a pre-warning is to your taste.
<redtape|renegade> I'm completely amazed as to why ppl here talk about the semantics instead of the subjection .. like they are under a objectivity-veil, or something .. quite prevalent in europe too.
<dwatkins> redtape|renegade: what are the multiple colons for?
<ali1234> i didn't like the video. is that subjective enough for ya?
<redtape|renegade> redtape refuses to answer syntax question when the subject is more important .. wjhich you could have got from the description anyhow .. I'll check the logs tonight at 8pm ..
<redtape|renegade> leaves.
<dwatkins> Now I'm thoroughly confused.
<MartijnVdS> don't be
<mgdm> as he said, 'ignorance is bliss' :-)
<dwatkins> I won't point out that some terminals interpret the colons as being part of the URL, then ;)
<brobostigon> i would concur, the opposite can be true, being intelligant and clever can be hell.
<MartijnVdS> though I wonder how scary the world must be if you don't know how to learn new things quickly
<dwatkins> things change fast in some areas, but not all
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: exactly
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: but I saw someone who was used to Windows XP try to use Windows 7 and be *completely lost*
<MartijnVdS> it's mostly still the same!
<dwatkins> they'd be even more lost on win8, I imagine
<brobostigon> ok, now to read some more of MartijnVdS's blog.
<dwatkins> part of the problem is that people learn how to use a computer by learning where to click, though - they don't understand the fundamentals
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Agreed, but even that has some logic to it
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: twisted, weird logic (2 operating systems at once, or something)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yes, and not knowing the fundamentals makes change scary. I think.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thats interesting, well written, good job, :)
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's not scary
<ali1234> when people get a new computer and don't know how to use it they don't get scared
<ali1234> they just go "meh" and don't use it
<ali1234> or they get angry
<ali1234> this whole "change is scary" meme is just a strawman invented by people trying to push through unpopular changes
<ali1234> and please don't give me any yoda quotes. george lucas is no philosopher
<ali1234> "i don't know how i'm going to pay the bills next week" is scary. "i can't find bbc iplayer any more" is not.
<ali1234> popey: the qt setup in raring is really really messed up
<ali1234> this is kind of hampering my efforts with qml-box2d
<penguin42> http://blog.kotowicz.net/2013/07/jealous-of-prism-use-amazon-1-button.html sounds messy
<ali1234> specifically the problem is ubuntu-sdk has a dependency on qt5-default and build-dep qt4-x11 has a dependency on qt4-default, so these are mutually exclusive
<ali1234> and i currently have the latter installed
<popey> ali1234: can you file a bug and I'll point the guys at it?
<ali1234> they probably already know about it
<popey> i wouldnt be sure
<ali1234> i bet qt4 source package has some hardcoded stuff that requires qt4-default to be installed
<popey> most if not all are running saucy
<popey> well the desktop needs qt4 for ubuntuone client
<ali1234> so that doesn't have qt4 at all?
<ali1234> this bug affects build-dep only
<popey> no, i mean they're not likely to see raring specific issues
<ali1234> ie if you want to build qt4 from source
<ali1234> i doubt it is raring specific
<popey> ah
<ali1234> since literally no ubuntu developers build packages locally they probably won't care either :P
<popey> yes, they do
<ali1234> yeah, in a chroot
<popey> in fact the sdk guys are most likely to
<popey> maybe yeah
<ali1234> i'm not building qt4 from the package, i'm building upstream
<ali1234> looking for the webkit bug
<ali1234> so i could use a chroot
<ali1234> but i'd have to enter it and build manually
<ali1234> and that's 100% undocumented "nobody ever does that" territory
<ali1234> when i finish bisecting qtwebkit i can uninstall this
<ali1234> !info libqtwebkit4 saucy
<lubotu3> libqtwebkit4 (source: qtwebkit-source): Web content engine library for Qt. In component main, is optional. Version 2.3.1-0ubuntu3 (saucy), package size 8758 kB, installed size 34138 kB
<ali1234> actually i could just install that on raring and forget about it
<ali1234> but i;m curious now
<popey> heh
<ali1234> it's one of those "it's fixed but we have no idea why" bugs
<ali1234> and turns out it's not caused by ubuntu patches
<popey> we had a lot of that during early phone development
<popey> people were very cautious about upgrading qt
<popey> given the whole world depends on it on the phone
<ali1234> qtwebkit4 2.3 isn't even an official release you know
<popey> and we had product demos to do at trade shows
<popey> couldn't break those
<ali1234> it's the backport of qtwebkit5
<ali1234> but you probably know this
<HoT|2fC^> lo all :-)
<HoT|2fC^> I have gone and 2 Netgear Powerlines today for the Basement as the Router/ADSL Modem is in my Room (second floor) so it's Router connect to Powerline then another Ethernet cable joining to my PC from the Router.
<HoT|2fC^> But when I try and connect via the PC I don't get any connection
<HoT|2fC^> Would I need a switch?
<AlanBell> HoT|2fC^: I have some of them, they work great for me
<popey> nope, shouldn't need to
<HoT|2fC^> AlanBell, yeah works for me but I cant use the other 3 ports on my router.
<HoT|2fC^> It's like the Powerline has taken over it lol!
<AlanBell> erm, that shouldn't happen
<HoT|2fC^> AlanBell, yeah must be faulty :/
<HoT|2fC^> all I have done with the Router is Port Forward no Static IP or anything I auto DHCP an still didnt work :\
<AlanBell> I have two powerline bricks and a powerline hub
<HoT|2fC^> As I set a sttic on my PC.
<HoT|2fC^> I like the bricks is that the WD's ?
<HoT|2fC^> Black ones :)
<AlanBell> tp link I think, grey ones
<HoT|2fC^> aah nice :)
<AlanBell> http://hencam.libertus.co.uk/ is coming to you over wifi and powerline networking
<AlanBell> you have to follow the instructions quite carefully to pair them up, then they just work like a long network cable
<AlanBell> or possibly like a hub if you have more than just a pair
<popey> i had to do zero to pair devolo ones
<HoT|2fC^> I want in my basement to have the powerline pluged in, then connected to a switch then wired from the switch to my PC and maybe a access point but one going outside outdoor :) then I want IP CCTV connected to that switch
<HoT|2fC^> :o
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok nice :)
<AlanBell> I used power over ethernet to get 5V out to the chickens for the camera, but the cable isn't used for data, that goes over wifi
<ali1234> won;t the hens get worried when the camera is moving?
<ali1234> also why didn't you use the cable for data?
<AlanBell> they don't seem to be bothered by it
<ali1234> you should make a chicken suit for the camera
<AlanBell> heh
<HoT|2fC^> lol
<HoT|2fC^> thats awesome AlanBell :)
<AlanBell> I didn't use the cable for data because I was planning to get the power out there a different way, and I wanted wifi that covers the garden anyway
<HoT|2fC^> Here is my network I have put together, I know the laptop isnt wireless :) but I still connected it :D
<HoT|2fC^> http://oi39.tinypic.com/4sfeoo.jpg
<ali1234> even so no point wasting precious wifi bandwidth... i mean it's slow enough already
<AlanBell> I was just going to shove 5v down the cable but it is crappy cheap aluminium out of spec chinese cable so I had to use a PoE injector to push 48v down it and regulate to 5v at the far end
<HoT|2fC^> ali1234 cant be worse then my speed ;)
<ali1234> i'm guessing it probably can if you;re able to maintain a connection to irc
<mungbean> anuone used pocketmags? opinions?
<HoT|2fC^> Can I run any switch off a powerline adaptor ?
<AlanBell> speed is fast enough, it doesn't slow me down as I normally use the wifi hotspot at the front of the house
<ali1234> HoT|2fC^: yes
<HoT|2fC^> ali1234: Thanks :>
<ali1234> HoT|2fC^: just think of them as like a magical network cable
<HoT|2fC^> Can I connect the Router into the Switch ? once connected to the Powerline ?
<ali1234> or rather, think of the whole system as a hub
<AlanBell> you can in theory network stuff with the house 2 doors up the road with them
<ali1234> eh, not really
<AlanBell> houses are apparently on three different phases
<ali1234> you're lucky if they work between rooms in your house
<HoT|2fC^> depends on your house wiring :)
<HoT|2fC^> mines all new and it pushes max speed from my basement to my room.
<ali1234> new wiring is worse
<HoT|2fC^> really?
<ali1234> those things work better on spurs
<HoT|2fC^> lol
<AlanBell> yeah, probably stuck on range, but my point is that next door is on a different phase so won't work in theory
<ali1234> but standard since about 1952 is rings
<ali1234> well i didn't know that
<ali1234> so if i wire my electric to my neighbours, it will explode?
<AlanBell> yeah, not a good plan
<popey> indeed
<popey> double plus not good
<HoT|2fC^> lol
<AlanBell> but two doors up should be fine :)
<popey> but wire to the neighbours 3 doors down and you're fine
<popey> FSVO "fine"
<ali1234> alternatively if i want 3 phase in my house all i have to do is buy three houses in a row
<AlanBell> simples!
<AlanBell> Bug #1172229 is nicely fixed now, that is good
<lubotu3> bug 1172229 in unity (Ubuntu) "alt+` then right cursor unexpected behavior" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1172229
<AlanBell> and up and down work as I would expect them to do
 * popey is going to his first OSCON
<AlanBell> nice
<mungbean> turning on my android tablet after 2 weeks is like turning on a windows pc
<mungbean> have to wait 10 mins for updates, as it kills the tab;et until then
<mungbean> notification overload
<mungbean> of stuff you read 3 weeks ago on your phone
<popey> i dont have my android devices set to auto update
<mungbean> gonna disable it
<mungbean> used to be useful
<mungbean> this pocket mags is utter fail
<mungbean> not loading at all
<mungbean> site must be really slow
<Azelphur> popey: do you have a typical "backup entire drive" rsnapshot line with a sane set of excludes I could nick?
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<Azelphur> Is there anything I can do to check folder sizes in a less io intensive way?
<Azelphur> or at least, some way I can check a folder size without making my entire server grind to a halt ;)
<Azelphur> uptime 7 just for checking how big a folder is = bad.
<ali1234> uptime 7?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I think he means system load
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you can ionice it
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea I did that but I still had very high uptime
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: uptime goes up as long as you don't reboot :)
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> one more build in this bisect :)
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<Azelphur> are there any distros roaming about that have rebootless kernel upgrades yet?
<Azelphur> besides oraclecrap
<MartijnVdS> maybe one or two niche ones
<Azelphur> lame :(
<Azelphur> I dunno why people are slacking so much on this, Linux being so prominent in the server market and all :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: rebootless kernels are *scary*
<Azelphur> pfft
<MartijnVdS> I mean.. the kernel data structures for sockets, file handles, etc. -- how does a rebootless kernel keep those sane?
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> I don't handle stuff on that low of a level
<ali1234> the kernel does
<ali1234> which is why you should worry about patching it in real time
<penguin42> yeh there is the one that does the live patching which is kind of scary, the other way is to kexec into a new kernel
<penguin42> but kexec kills all the processes off
<Azelphur> hehe
<penguin42> hmm the panorama creator in the new digiKam is interesting - a bit touchy but interesting
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-14
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<brobostigon> is it possible to setup bitlbee to only allow connections from very specific ips/hostnames ?
<popey> brobostigon: you could firewall it with iptables
<brobostigon> i am just looking at that possibility.
<popey> thanks directhex â»  just bought system shock 2 and fez
<DJones> If anybody has a 13.04 machine to hand, can you check the repositories to see if you have ttp://ppa.launchpad.net/gwendal-lebihan-dev/cinnamon-stable/ubuntu For some reason I've that included in mine and I can't see why, can't remember adding it as a repo, none of the software in the repo is installed and doesn't appear to be anything I would have installed
<penguin42> I doubt it would add a ppa by itself
<popey> indeed
<popey> either you installed it or something else added it during install
<popey> you could grep /var/log/dpkg.log for mentions of cinnamon
<DJones> Nothing there
<popey> well, there may be in older dpkg.logs
<popey> alan@deep-thought:/var/log$ ls -l dpkg* | wc -l
<popey> 10
<DJones> Just looking through the others, nothing in them either
<DJones> I'll remove it anyway
<popey> where was it?
<popey> in /etc/apt/sources.list ?
<popey> or in a separate list file
<DJones> Just trying to work out where its coming from, its not in sources.list
<DJones> Doesn't show in a .list file in sources.list.d
<popey> where are you seeing it then?
<DJones> I'm looking in Synaptic -> Settings -> Repositories
<DJones> Under Other software
<popey> if it's enabled then it must be in /etc/apt/sources.list or somewhere in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<DJones> Found it, its been added in Insync.list
<DJones> I've already removed Insync, so removed it from sources
<DJones> I knew I hadn't conciously added a cinamon repo
<DJones> England 1 - Australia 0 yay
<SuperEngineer> watch out, watch; there's a SuperEngineer about ;)
<penguin42> oh oh
<SuperEngineer> watch out, watch out even - idiot me
<SuperEngineer> I hope everybody is well & happy on this wonderful day
<popey> HOT!
 * popey makes some burgers
<SuperEngineer> turn on fans - hang wet towels - wait till later - pat self on back - cook on barbeque
 * penguin42 puts choc biscuits in fridge
 * popey switches off the pool heater. 33 degrees is warm enough I think!
<SuperEngineer> popey: not yet! that's only one degree above it turning into ice!
 * SuperEngineer can hear the reaching of C->f table from here
<penguin42> only enough 250 degrees or so  until it gets comfortable
<SuperEngineer> just checked disk[s] health stats ... & then checked free space
<SuperEngineer> health is all cool - free space: 30gig left on Ubuntu partion, 25 on backup disk - storage partions ok
<SuperEngineer> conclusion... Steam & Glastonbury are bad for disk space ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...but fun
 * SuperEngineer just watching interview on BBC Click with Humble Bundle man - nice one beeb!
<brobostigon> yes, saw that yesterday.
<SuperEngineer> good, huh
<SuperEngineer> [some of us were working yesterday]
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... why would SMPlayer be asking me which version of mplayer in use [<1.3, 1.3 >1.3] when synaptic shows it at 2.something
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but.. vlc!
<SuperEngineer> ....could understand if hadn't added it from software Centre... come on SMP - get it right boys
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: time for some bug filings?
<SuperEngineer> I have a long vid I want the  last "played up to" position remembered... to me that read, need SMP
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: methinks you might be right
<SuperEngineer> ...& if only bugs = wish listas, dear VLC please add.... ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: what do you need in vlc?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Not just click file, play music/video, done?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: or a playlist?
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: the abilty to remember last "played up to point" & to carry on next time from there
<SuperEngineer> [the only reason I downloaded SMP
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/5315
 * SuperEngineer opens link
<SuperEngineer> ...& sees he's not the only one with that wish
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: .. nice weekend volunteer project? ;)
<SuperEngineer> if only the plugin wasn't a windows plugin - & if only it was in the official build
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: :-)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: make it an all-platform enhancement in the VLC codebase :)
<SuperEngineer> hmmmm....
<SuperEngineer> [p.s apart from that slight defect... VLC! wow!
<MartijnVdS> yeah it can play ALL the things
<SuperEngineer> yup - I had a 1 track music vid from a while back.... nothing would play it...
<SuperEngineer> VLC would
<MartijnVdS> it can also play from DLNA shares
<SuperEngineer> it can probably play as yet uninvented formats I reckon!
<penguin42> by sending the codecs backwards in a time machine?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: yes
<SuperEngineer> ...now you are pointing the finger ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you and your TARDIS
<SuperEngineer> I learnt to do without a TARDIS ever since The Dr. stole mine! - now I have learnt to travel without one
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: DeLorean driver then?
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: lol
<SuperEngineer> [mine is cleverly disguised as Skoda... noone will guess!]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: that'll never hit 99mph though
<moreati> 88 mph
<MartijnVdS> uh yes
<MartijnVdS> 88
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: you sure about that?  mine does
<MartijnVdS> moreati: still won't hit that speed :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: and it's a Skoda? Are you really sure?
<SuperEngineer> ...unless any police on channel atm in which case - 28mph is all it can do!!!
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: GPS verified at 98 - with a bit of spare actually
<SuperEngineer> no - I did *not* say GP{S verified!!!! - that invalidates insurance
<SuperEngineer> so 28mph max it is then
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: well, maybe you verified it in Germany, on the Autobahn
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: yes - I am 100% sure... & yes, of course... how forgetful of me. Of course that's were I verified it!
 * penguin42 had assumed it was in the local Super market car park
<SuperEngineer> it just looked so similar to a certain m'way I use, easy mistake to make ;)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: no - I leave those for doughnutting idiuots
<SuperEngineer> *idiotsa
 * penguin42 assumes that isn't related to the sweet bread like confection
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: please tell me your not a doughnutting idiot
<SuperEngineer> pleeeeeeeese
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: what if he's a doughnutting smart guy 8-)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: then that's cool - he will be doing it his own time - not the public
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well only if they're chocolate coated - preferably with some extra chocolate sprinkles
<SuperEngineer> Pendulum: stop making me feel hungry! it's too hot for that sort of treat
<penguin42> yes, more ice cream weather
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you need a "Broeders" ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/en/our-beer/
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: ask AlanBell how it tastes ;)
<AlanBell> nom
<SuperEngineer> ...with choccy prinkles, choccy flake, choccy sauce..... & a dribble of raspberry just for interest
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: have you tried a Dark Roast yet?
<AlanBell> not yet, just the one pale ale
<penguin42>  'be surplrised' !
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: typos -> info@vandestreek-bier.nl
 * penguin42 must try making chocolate sorbet - there is an ice cream place near here that sells it and it's *gorgeous*
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: just seen the "Broeders" bit - like the organic bit but wheart beer & I don't usually get on too well
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's only 30% wheat
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: also, it's "clear", not cloudy like Weizen
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but there's always Dark Roast ;)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: hmm.... know - *that* doesa make it appealing
<SuperEngineer> [Dark Roast - as in chocolate malt? - no sprinles I hope!]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: nah, "coffee stout"
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I will try to find some
<SuperEngineer> [locaaly that is]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: where in the UK are you? :)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: Gloucestershire
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: http://youtu.be/XEEU1nQeGNA?t=32s   reminds me of
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's going to be hard to find local Dutch brews there ;)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: but I travel a fair bit for work [ 1,000 miles/week in bad times]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but my brother is going to drive aroud the UK in is VW van in a few weeks, if you shoot him a mail he might bring you sime
<MartijnVdS> some*
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Heck he might miss our summer
 * SuperEngineer likes that idea
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: he's already having summer in the Netherlands, I think he's going to the UK to see English weather
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: Marti"Vds", "vandestreek" beer - do I detct a family connection there?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: they're my brothers :)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: wow!
<SuperEngineer> so emailing would be ok?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: just mail info@vandestreek-bier or use the contact form, saying you'd like some beer if he's in the area
<SuperEngineer> Marti said you are to bring to me crates of free beer!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: +.nl somewhere in there
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<SuperEngineer> :D
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I guess it's a hard life having to test beer for your brothers
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: yeah, horrible
<shauno> I hope your siblings are nothing like mine.  I'm not sure I'd trust their freebies ;)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they make special edition beers for family birthdays and everything
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I made a celebration once - now it's on sale in supermarkets! that was not my intention
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: your celebration is on sale?
<MartijnVdS> how does that even work? ;)
<SuperEngineer> [it proved so popular with press & guests ... I dare not allow it to be a one-off as intended
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ....Exmoor Gold
<SuperEngineer> ..& the first to append or prefix "Gold" to a beer name
<shauno> o_O
<SuperEngineer> [seemed better than Exmoor[brew number] as original called]  ;)
<shauno> hm, I quite regularly drink a beer called golden something that's a good 50 years going.  I'd consider it a wild claim that you were the first to go there ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yeah, my brothers first used numbers for their brews as well
<penguin42> shauno: So good you can't remember the full title?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: they still do for their research brews
<shauno> penguin42: more that I'm unsure of the translation, it's ZlatÃ½ BaÅ¾ant
<SuperEngineer> we didn't actually use brew numbers - the standardd beer was Exmoor Ale - this was a one off for reaching a milestone...
<penguin42> shauno: Golden Pheasant according to Google
<shauno> that'd explain why I'm not familiar with the second word :)
<MartijnVdS> well v/f sounds become "b" in lots of other languages
<MartijnVdS> and "fazant" should give a hint that it's like pheasant ;)
<SuperEngineer> but to sell commercially a number was not a good idea - so I [as brewer, and therfore witha good say in the matter] put forward exmoor Gold as name to keep to brand name
<MartijnVdS> (actually, that's the Dutch name of the bird ;))
<shauno> heh, I see your logic in retrospect.  although the B really is a B
<SuperEngineer> and shauno if that is correct - I swallow my pride - & change to "name of modern era beers"
<MartijnVdS> shauno: in Spanish, things written with a "v" tend to be pronounced with a "b" instead
<HoT|2fC^iPad> lo MartijnVdS :-)
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Is there a Server version of ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> there is
<MartijnVdS> it's called, surprisingly, "Ubuntu Server"
<MartijnVdS> you can find the installation ISOs in the same place as the desktop ISOs
<SuperEngineer> ...& if anyone is wondering - I have my original test brews in a case at home - signed HMCE.
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Ah nice I might install it on a ol Dell desktop I have using a Intel Cel D :D
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: that's cool :)
<SuperEngineer> I call it my "ritirement policy" ;:
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you should really email my brothers then, as a beer guru ;)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: the idea gets more & more interesting
<HoT|2fC^iPad> Ok thanks :-) currently on a train so cant do it yet lol.
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: if the bros are r***** &s****** I've found an email address
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: they are, just use info@vandestreek-bier.nl though
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: that goes to both
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: and into the correct folder in their mail apps ;)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: cool - will do
<SuperEngineer> celebration time folks - just regained use of headphones [plugged in front of pc socket] back
<MartijnVdS> \m/
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: something to listen to: http://open.spotify.com/album/79pZVE4kIdBwRwP27Fw1yJ
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: "To enjoy Spotify, please install Adobe Flash. It's free." - not in my browser!. but thanks anyway
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you can jsut install the .deb instead, of spotify
<MartijnVdS> https://www.spotify.com/nl/download/previews/
<MartijnVdS> that's Dutch.. wait a minute
<MartijnVdS> https://www.spotify.com/en/download/previews/
<SuperEngineer> [I have flash installed - I can "release" it on most pages if reallly needed - but Spotify wanmts to go try all on it's on!  No!
<SuperEngineer> trying that last link
<SuperEngineer> Marti would that be an advert supported version by any chance?
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS:  would that be an advert supported version by any chance?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: by default it's ad-supported, you can buy a subscription to get rid of the ads
 * MartijnVdS 's ISP pays for the subscription though \o/
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: let me find a better way to stream for you
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/Lysandre/8423091
 * SuperEngineer opens that link... feels better about that one!!! cheers
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - it had a problem opening flash - yup, that would be because it didn't ask for permission [snigger]
 * SuperEngineer punches chest with fists - Tarzan stylie!
<SuperEngineer> & knows he wins
<penguin42> anyone know how pkgcofnig is supposed to work when cross building with debs?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you should probably ask the raspbian guys
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they cross-built (build?) a lot of their archive
<MartijnVdS> Sheffield is on fire: http://i.imgur.com/qJYiv51.jpg
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Was a pretty big fire in Manchester yesterday, I see Sheffield is always late....
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
 * SuperEngineer currently watching glastonbury performance from Alabama Shakes - she is mostly motionless - except for the mouth - & wow!!
<MartijnVdS> Alabama Shakes are great :)
<SuperEngineer> +1
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you should see Ed Harcourt as well
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: will go hunt
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's on iplayer
<SuperEngineer> [what I thought was a Rolloing Stones only vid is actually an extended full-on "Best Of" - wiondered why it was so large ;)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: downloaded via get- [then remanmed and moved and backed up - no expire]!
 * SuperEngineer slaps wrist
<SuperEngineer> [sorry about typos - hard to type when so distracted by that voice!]
<MartijnVdS> hm.. MOT day tomorrow :|
<MartijnVdS> (well APK, but that's the same thing but Dutch)
<SuperEngineer> quick self tyres, washers, lights and dashborad indicators check time - saves a fortune [but you know that already]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yeah, it's service time as well
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: so they're going to do some basic fixes first :)
<MartijnVdS> I hope the adventure with the curb near popey's house didn't break anything other than my tyre
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: get them to check the boot as well -there mightr still be popey chickens in it!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's a SMART, it doesn't have much of a boot
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: lol
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: https://plus.google.com/photos/100189567362844794281/albums/5877491002319853233/5877491010391899122?pid=5877491010391899122&oid=100189567362844794281
<SuperEngineer> just checked it - no damage - tell them it's a "pass"
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<popey> SuperEngineer: no chickens here
 * SuperEngineer  hums "ain't nobody here but us chickens"
<SuperEngineer> ...& invents next podcast title at same same!!!
<popey> We have a pattern for podcast titles
<SuperEngineer> darn
<AlanBell> Ubuntu Run
<popey> that wont fit either
<AlanBell> true, Chicken Ubuntu then
<popey> â»
<penguin42> is that like Chicken Kiev?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: is that like Chicken Chernobyl?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Similar, but you can get it served cold
<MartijnVdS> top gear o'clock
<brobostigon> new top gear, bbc2.
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> and hunt vs lauda after that
<brobostigon> gibralter airport,
<brobostigon> damn, nope.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: pissing of the Spanish by calling Gibraltar "Here in Britain"
<MartijnVdS> off
<brobostigon> lol
<penguin42> sigh I hate libtool
<MartijnVdS> that's ok, it hates you back
<MartijnVdS> in fact, it hates everyone
<penguin42> nod
<popey> not seen any of this season of top gear
<popey> or the previous season, despite having a ticket to go to the studio audience.
<popey> Top gear jumped the shark about 3 seasons or so back
 * penguin42 hasn't watched it in a while, but there again I'm not a car penguin
<shauno> I'm not really a car person, but I am basically an overgrown 12yo.  apparently their core audience
<AlanBell> I have recorded it for later watching
<AlanBell> but yeah, it probably is time for a change of format/change of presenters
<popey> i enjoy the Drive youtube channel much more
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/user/drive
<MartijnVdS> popey: does it have POWAAAAR
<popey> meh
<popey> its fun, more entertaining than the rather formulaeic top gear
<AlanBell> contains more car
<AlanBell> and less "last of the summer wine"
<popey> much less ego
<AlanBell> heh, a comparison that has been made before :) http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2011/04/08/top-gear-producers-angrily-deny-any-resemblance-to-last-of-the-summer-wine/
<mungbean> i find cars boring, which is why i enjoy topgear
<brobostigon> i find the idioticism funny, almost like i am expecting boris johnson to appear.
<popey> i like old cars, but don't really care about cars I'll never have any chance to own
 * popey has the holy grail going on his other screen
<mungbean> records the returned for another night
<mungbean> and switches off telly
<ali1234> "loosely car-based sitcom" HAHAHA
<hcfd> If you were going to deploy Ubuntu on 50 school desktops, tomorrow, would you choose 10.04 or 12.04?
<ali1234> 12.04
<hcfd> Support/upgrade issues aside, still 12.04?
<hcfd> The reason I have some doubts is that I have found 12.04 to be much flakier.
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> that is easily fixed
<ali1234> simply don't use unity or compiz
<hcfd> What's the quickest way back to Gnome 2.x?
<ali1234> sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback
<hcfd> Magic. Thank you ali1234 :)
<ali1234> this will stop working soon though
<ali1234> but hopefully by then consort-session or mate-session will be a reasonable replacement (they currently aren't unfortunately)
<hcfd> Case in point: I am installing 12.04.2 LTS VM at the minute, and I'm running the first batch of updates, which fail, because one dependency requires 2.0 but 2.2 is installed. *sigh*
<penguin42> hcfd: That's odd - what package?
<hcfd> For my own system I have 10.04.4 and I've chopped and changed various bits as I go, but for a fresh deployment I'd like to use 12.04 if I could make it more reliable.
<hcfd> penguin42, just a sec...
<penguin42> a clean 12.04.2 should just work; are you adding any PPAs or the like?
<ali1234> should...
<hcfd> Depends: python-minimal (= 2.7.3-0ubuntu2) but 2.7.3-0ubuntu2.2 is installed
<ali1234> that's a bug
<hcfd> This is a clean and full-auto/default install
<hcfd> Yes.
<ali1234> someone typod the debian/control
<ali1234> what package has that dependency?
<hcfd> python
<ali1234> whut
<ali1234> python depends on python minimal?
<hcfd> heh
<ali1234> i suppose that makes sense
<hcfd> That's what it's trying to tell me, yep.
<ali1234> !info python precise
<lubotu3> python (source: python-defaults): interactive high-level object-oriented language (default version). In component main, is important. Version 2.7.3-0ubuntu2.2 (precise), package size 162 kB, installed size 658 kB
<hcfd> And now Update Manager has closed unexpectedly.
<ali1234> !info python-minimal precise
<lubotu3> python-minimal (source: python-defaults): minimal subset of the Python language (default version). In component main, is required. Version 2.7.3-0ubuntu2.2 (precise), package size 28 kB, installed size 159 kB
<brobostigon> !info testing
<lubotu3> Package testing does not exist in quantal
<hcfd> I should still risk pain and suffering for 12.04?
<brobostigon> !info python testing
<lubotu3> python (source: python-defaults): interactive high-level object-oriented language (default version). In component main, is standard. Version 2.7.5-2 (testing), package size 173 kB, installed size 553 kB
<brobostigon> !info python3 testing
<lubotu3> python3 (source: python3-defaults): interactive high-level object-oriented language (default python3 version). In component main, is optional. Version 3.2.3-7 (testing), package size 42 kB, installed size 216 kB
<brobostigon> i personally, would either go with *buntu lts or debian stable for such applications.
<ali1234> hcfd: did you apt-get update before updating?
<hcfd> Well this *is* Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
<hcfd> ali1234, yes
<ali1234> 2.7.3-0ubuntu2 appears to be the version from the initial release
<ali1234> anyway, you're not going to have any better luck with 10.04
<popey> hcfd: 12.04.2?
<hcfd> popey, yes
<ali1234> the older releases tend to slowly fall apart even when they are still officially supposed to be maintained
<popey> this is a cleanly installed system which you're running update manager on?
<hcfd> ali1234, except my experience over the last 3 years has been good with 10.04.
<ali1234> yeah well it will be if you are constantly updating it
<hcfd> popey, yes. It's the 64bit version on the latest VirtualBox atop of Windows 7, but that's by-the-by.
<popey> I'll try and reproduce it
<ali1234> 10.04 LTS 5 year support only applies to server stuff btw, not desktop. that's right isn't it popey? 2 or 3 years for desktop?
<hcfd> popey, okay, appreciated.
<popey> yes
<penguin42> hcfd: That sounds like you've got half a set of updates - i.e. it's found one new python package but not the other, which mirror are you using?
<popey> see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<hcfd> popey, I just downloaded from http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop and chose 12.04 LTS 64-bit
<ali1234> really there's no way i would even consider using 10.04 for a new desktop deployment today
 * popey downloads
<popey> i installed 12.04 recently and dont recall this issue
<ali1234> i suspect it's something to do with initial apt-get update
<hcfd> penguin42, could be. I was idly clicking through the GUI and let it choose whatever mirror it automagically determined was best.
<ali1234> something that you'll only ever see once per install, if you see it at all
<popey> it should do an apt-get update post-install
<ali1234> there's that word again
<hcfd> 's/should/will\ hopefully'
<penguin42> hcfd: You could try paste bin'ing the output of   apt-cache python
<popey> also pastebin your /var/log/dpkg.log
<penguin42> hcfd: I think the trick with the python packages must match - i.e. the main and the minimal
<hcfd> Sure
<popey> hah, just downloaded the iso
<popey> already had it from last friday - oops
<ali1234> there also that option in the installer "download updates..."
<popey> shows how recently I installed it
<popey> hcfd: did you tick "download updates while installing" or "install third-party software" in the installer?
<hcfd> Both
<popey> k
<hcfd> apt-cache: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875288/
<hcfd> dpkg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875290/ (1MB)
<ali1234> "unpacked python2.7 2.7.3-0ubuntu3.2" 3.2?
<hcfd> o_O
<ali1234> apt-cache says it knows about 2 and 2.2
<ali1234> but not 3.2
<ali1234> that is very strange
<popey> its not 3.2 though
<popey> it's 2.7.3..
<penguin42> hcfd: What about apt-cache policy python
<penguin42> actually, that's the 1st bit
<penguin42> hcfd: What does apt-cache policy python-minimal say ?
<ali1234> popey: 2.7.3-0ubuntu2 vs 2.7.3-0ubuntu2.2 vs 2.7.3-0ubuntu3.2
<hcfd> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875313/
<popey> sorry, thought you were implying it was python 3.2
<penguin42> hcfd: OK, so that can get a 2.2 and the main python can get a 2.2 - so hmm what's the problem?
<hcfd> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875315/
<hcfd> penguin42, <hcfd> Depends: python-minimal (= 2.7.3-0ubuntu2) but 2.7.3-0ubuntu2.2 is installed
<penguin42> hcfd: Yeh, I can't see why it isn't installing python 2.7.3-0ubuntu2.2 to solve that
<hcfd> 254 updates in the queue but they won't install because ^
<hcfd> I'm sure I can coax it to
<hcfd> But, fresh install.. I expect the initial updates to work
<penguin42> nod so would I
<penguin42> hcfd: What's the lines before the Depends: python-minimal .... - can you pastebin the full text?
<popey> right, precise installed
 * popey snapshots
<hcfd> Thanks popey
<hcfd> penguin42, That is the full text, with one exception: Prepend "python: " and you've got it all.
<popey> so what should I do, login, wait for update manager to appear?
<hcfd> popey, yeah, so I logged in, waited for update manager, clicked install all... If it wanted a reboot I let it, rinse, repeat
<popey> k
<penguin42> hcfd: The thing I'm confused by is it seems to be possible for it to upgrade the python and it knows that, so I'm curious why it's not just updating the python as well
<hcfd> Sure
<hcfd> Shall I go ahead and see if I can coax it to proceed?
<penguin42> give Popey a chance first
<hcfd> No problem
<penguin42> hcfd: But I'd try doing an apt-get update just to make sure it has got the latest set, and then I'd try doing an apt-get install python   and see what happened
<hcfd> And off it goes, 2.2 installed.
<hcfd> It's worth pointing out again that Update Manager crashed after it errored on unmet dependency for python.
<hcfd> It's proceeding fine with the other updates now.
<popey> right, update manager has popped up
<popey> 278 updates
<penguin42> hcfd: do you have anything in /var/crash ?
 * popey runs "apt-get -s upgrade >> aptgetupgrade
<popey> and apt-get -s dist-upgrade >> aptgetupgrade
<popey> or similar
<hcfd> penguin42, I do indeed.
<penguin42> hcfd: What?
<hcfd> _usr_bin_update-manager.100.crash
<hcfd> _usr_bin_update-manager.100.upload
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875349/
<hcfd> _usr_bin_update-manager.100.uploaded
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875350/
<hcfd> .1000. rather
<hcfd> The .crash is 183K
 * popey hits "install updates" in update manager
<penguin42> now that .uploaded means it's been submitted to somewhere doesn't it?
<popey> yes
<popey> errors.ubuntu.com
<popey> hcfd: how much ram has your vm got?
<popey> mine has 2GB
<hcfd> Ah, just 1GB
<popey> just a thought
<hcfd> Valid
<popey> applying changes...
<penguin42> hcfd: You could unpack that crash file and see the actual backtrace if you felt enthusiastic
<popey> or create a bug and apport-collect it into teh bug report
<hcfd> penguin42, if I had more time
<hcfd> popey, I'm waiting to see if you can reproduce it at all
<penguin42> hcfd: Nod,  in principal if you've got an lp account then just doing   ubuntu-bug and the path to the crash file should do it all for you
<penguin42> then we could see what you hit
<hcfd> ubuntu-bug ran at the time of the crash
<hcfd> I should do more?
<hcfd> Forgive my ignorance
<penguin42> ah do you have a bug number?
<hcfd> No, but I agree that'd be the next step
<hcfd> Let me create the ticket
<penguin42> hmm if ubuntu-bug ran doesn't it give you a bug number?
<penguin42> (or does the default send that to errors.ubuntu rather than launchpad)
<hcfd> I think it zooms to errors.ubuntu and that's that.
<hcfd> Yeah, that's all.
<penguin42> yeh so I think you should be able to get ubuntu-bug to send it to lp if you run it like I said above
<penguin42> hcfd: Or use apport-cli to unpack and then you can just find the python backtrace and see if there is an existing bug
<hcfd> This is new to me. Running ubuntu-bug with one argument (path to crash file) sends to errors.ubuntu
<popey> right, so first run of update manager has finished
<popey> it now says I need to reboot
 * popey does that
 * popey opens update manager and checks for updates post-reboot
<hcfd> penguin42, ah okay, so it's a duplicate of http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/871430
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 871430 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with python in _run_in_dialog(): Depends: python-minimal (= 2.7.2-7ubuntu1) \u043d\u043e 2.7.2-7ubuntu2 \u0443\u0436\u0435 \u0443\u0441\u0442\u0430\u043d\u043e\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d" [High,Triaged]
<popey> no updates
<popey> so no, i cant reproduce it
<popey> I'll burn this and do it again with 1GB RAM
<hcfd> See link above.
<hcfd> Duplicate of existing bug, original reporter was on 11.10..
<hcfd> Hmm.
<penguin42> hmm 2 years old, triaged, high but failing again with a different package version on 2 years newer version odd - some type of race?
<popey> 11.10
<hcfd> Brian Murray (brian-murray) on 2011-10-11 importance: Undecided -> High
<penguin42> hcfd: Are you sure that's the crash as opposed to the version error - or is it really the same problem?
<penguin42> hcfd: 32 bit or 64?
<hcfd> 64
<hcfd> I'm certain that's the crash
 * popey does the same updates in update manager again but with 1GB RAM
<hcfd> Whether the crash is related to the version error.. it's temporally proximal, but I can't assert it's related.
<penguin42> I see lots of other bugs with people hitting python-minimal stuff on upgrades - but not fresh installs - except for that one
<popey> finished okay with 1GB RAM
<popey> sorry hcfd
<hcfd> No worries, great effort to reproduce. :)
<penguin42> popey: It does look like the same bug 871430 bug though so I guess he's not just making it up to test us :-)
<lubotu3> bug 871430 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with python in _run_in_dialog(): Depends: python-minimal (= 2.7.2-7ubuntu1) \u043d\u043e 2.7.2-7ubuntu2 \u0443\u0436\u0435 \u0443\u0441\u0442\u0430\u043d\u043e\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871430
<hcfd> 'strue! :-)
<popey> hehe
<popey> np
<penguin42> hcfd: I'd say report the bug with ubuntu-bug anyway if you can, explain what you did to work around it and add a comment saying it looks like 871430 and also add a comment on 871430 saying you managed to trigger it on 12.04.2
<penguin42>  <afk>
<hcfd> Consider it done
<hcfd> Thanks guys
<popey> np
<popey> fun â»
<mgdm> The DSL here syncs at 8Mbit but I get 30kbytes/sec do:(
<mgdm> s/do$/down/
 * mgdm blames BT and their wet string
<moreati> give them some credit. It takes a lot of watering cans to keep string wet in this weather
<moreati> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1604965156/ubuntu-theater-project-summer-festival-breaking-ch?ref=home_spotlight no relation AFAICT
<mgdm> moreati: sadly this is NW Scotland, and it's just got a bit damp up here again, just in time for me to arrive
<mgdm> (and the backhaul to the mainland is a microwave link from Stornoway to Dingwall, which is not keen on rain)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-07
<diddledan> I managed to get it booted and operational.. sort of - it's hideously unresponsive but the processor is idle according to top
<popey> diddledan: what device is it?
<diddledan> galaxy nexus
<diddledan> aka maguro/tuna
<popey> oh!
<popey> speak to ogra_ during european work day
<diddledan> all I can see which might slow things down is unity is using 30% of 700MB ram
<diddledan> the backlight responds instantly to touch, by brightening, but the ui doesn't react until many seconds later
<diddledan> I lie - _some_ ui responds just as readily as the backlight, such as the taskbar, but the apps themselves are in molasses
<ali1234> i found they go faster after they've been loaded up for a while
<diddledan> I'm thinking maybe the apparmor is too old - there's a message in the logs about requiring a compatibility patch
<diddledan> apparmor isn't running atm
<mapp> oops i was logged into shellinabox and messing with openswan made some iptables rules
<mapp> and yep couldnt access my machine anymore
<mapp> :D
 * p42phone waits for MAN-DUS flight
<mapp> p42phone
<mapp> whee u going
<mapp> dusseldorf?
<p42phone> Bonn via dusseldorf
<mapp> aha cool
<mapp> :D
<mapp> holiday?7
<p42phone> No, work
<mapp> ah
<mapp> important job
<mapp> :D
<p42phone> Not vastly.  Just a meeting of an EU funded dev project
<mapp> aha
<mapp> i just got in from casino
<mapp> genting is so good again tonight..got 3 free pints
<mapp> manager got me 2 and bar staff got me a beer ..and my mate so 6 free
<mapp> benefits of being a regular;p
<MooDoo> hello all
<mapp> hey MooDoo
<mapp> sup dude
<p42phone> Right, better switch you off, seated in this thing with propellers
<MooDoo> mapp: cold and hayfever, I suck
<mapp> cya p42phone have a safe flight
<mapp> ah suck why
<MooDoo> mapp: coz I just can't do anything at the moment, was in bed from 8pm fri/sat/sun
<mapp> whats wrong?74
<MooDoo> mapp: cold and hayfever :) lol
<MooDoo> it's a pain
<mapp> :(
<mapp> take benadryl
<MooDoo> yeah I've taken stuff :)
<Myrtti> MooDoo: I gave up and went for the pharmacy for help and they gave me wonderful medicine that actually works, unlike cetirizin which has worked beautifully for ten years
<MooDoo> Myrtti: yes I'm goina at lunch
<Myrtti> I should've gone two weeks earlier
<Myrtti> oh man, first firebug sighting on my laptop of this summer... god I do hope they don't get into the screen
<MartijnVdS> just.. uninstall the plugin if you don't want it?
<MooDoo> Myrtti: you mean the insect right?
<Myrtti> yeah.
<Myrtti> I've had them inside the screen panel in the past, they went in and died and left light glitches on the screen
<mapp> argh
<mapp> this pesky iptables
<mapp> 1 wrong rule and its a chore
<Myrtti> thrips, whatever
<mapp> thrips?
<Myrtti> little flying bugs that are coming in through the open windows and can get into electronics
<ujjain> Where would one place an ad for a handyman? The one I mailed wanted Â£145 for half an hour of work, while he lives 5 minutes from my house.
<MooDoo> ujjain: local newspaper, advert in your local newsagent/postoffice?
<ujjain> ah yeah, but that's not a free internet site.
<MooDoo> craigslist?
<Myrtti> we get local news and ads leaflet in the mail once a month
<dwatkins> ujjain: have you applied to the local Homeforce equivalent? There appear to be companies which offer a general number for home repair stuff and they keep a list of people such as yourself
<dwatkins> http://www.edinburgh-homeforce.co.uk/generalinformation.aspx
<ujjain> thanks MooDoo and dwatkins , good ideas
<bashrc> good moaning
<MooDoo> morning
<foobarry> ujjain: checkatrade
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<foobarry> druggies chasing each other on bikes through london today. what's new?
<davmor2> foobarry: the bikes they nicked?
<diddledan> ok, the wireless comms are dead on my ubuntu phone. rfkilld just immediately returns with exit code 1
<foobarry> davmor2: tour de france, dunno if they nicked em
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Chocolate Day! :-D
<diddledan> I approve of this message
<ujjain> http://london.en.craigslist.co.uk/lab/ http://london.en.craigslist.co.uk/lbs/ - is me placing a non-sex related ad like "help me place curtains" something inapproriate on craigslist?
<DJones> Hmmh, listening to Terry Pratchett's "Reaper Man", I wonder whether justyo.co are aware of this definition "It's not a yo what, it's just a yo', said the Senior Wrangler, behind him. Its a general street greeting and affirmative with convivial military ingroup and masculine bonding-ritual overtones.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning Mr brobostigon, good morning all.
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<MooDoo> moring brobostigon JamesTait :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<MooDoo> hello JamesTait how are you this fine day?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, quite tired, actually.  But fit and healthy otherwise.  You?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: cold and hayfever, bad horrible combination
<Myrtti> I'd not wish that for my worst enemy
<JamesTait> MooDoo, yuck! :(
<MooDoo> no community manager job on the canonical careeers page, does that mean they have found on now?
<popey> yes
<MooDoo> I'll wait for the announcement then I'm sure it'll come some
<MooDoo> day
<popey> yeah
<MooDoo> popey: is it you :p
<popey> I didn't apply, so almost certainly not.
<MooDoo> oh ok
<MooDoo> supprised
<MooDoo> surprised even lol
<foobarry> RMS got it
<foobarry> wondered why the tune i was listening to was so awesome. turned out it was 2 tracks at once - youtbe+clementine
<dwatkins> foobarry: have you seen youtube doubler?
<dwatkins> or rather 'heared'
<MooDoo> http://www.youtubedoubler.com/ :)
<dwatkins> my favourite is the one with whalesong over techno.
<dwatkins> my favourite favourite
<daniel_> 3
<foobarry> 4
<nigelb> 5
<MartijnVdS> 4
<ujjain> http://www.gratistheorie.nl/templates/gratistheorie/images_v1/auto/kruispunt3_1.jpg < in the UK, who would have right of way? the walking man or the car? because I regularly almost get killed when some car is trying to make a turn into me from behind when I'm crossing the street.
<popey> the walking man
<popey> by law
<popey> but drivers often ignore this
<foobarry> try walking in italy
<foobarry> you will die several times a day
<popey> "watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way"
<popey> https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/road-junctions-170-to-183
<foobarry> it helps to look first though, many people don't look
<foobarry> popey: you are talking about people crossing
<popey> thats what the picture shows
<popey> a person crossing
<Azelphur> popey: haha, that seems obvious thinking about it
<Azelphur> as the alternative would be "watch out for pedestrians crossing the road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they don't have priority, so run them down"
<foobarry> it shows a right hand drive car and a strange sign
<foobarry> and a man on the pavement
<popey> its from .nl
<popey> he asked "in the uk"
<popey> i.e. whats the equivalent
<foobarry> the highway code says crossing though
<foobarry> what if he is waiting to cross
<popey> yes, which I clearly pasted above
<popey> the picture doesn't show the car turning
<popey> it shows it about to turn
<popey> and the guy about to cross
<foobarry> yeah
<popey> anyway, the link is clear
<foobarry> the link is clear but the pciture is open to interpretation
<mapp> absolutely outrageous
<mapp> i make a withdrawl and they want ID/bank statements etc
<mapp> yet happy to take money off my card hundreds of times
<ujjain> ah ok, thanks
<popey> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wifiex is quite hilarious
<awilkins> How the hell did they even get $2,093 ????
<foobarry> charge the device with internet?
<ujjain> https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/static/hc/hc_rule_170_give_way_to_pedestrians_who_have_started_to_cross.jpg < I am this woman, often almost getting killed, while being a man, they even use the horn. Happened like 4 times in 3 months to me now. But I guess that's just how some people drive.
<foobarry> ujjain: BMW, mercedes, audi?
<foobarry> ujjain: you do look before crossing right?
<ujjain> foobarry, yeah, but 90% of cars goes straight, when people turn their turn signal late, or just drive fast
<ujjain> I'm used to the Dutch rule maybe, if the pedestrian goes straight, the car will have to stop for him, because he's making a corner
<foobarry> next model of bmw won't have indicators because they are not used by the customers
<ujjain> lol
<foobarry> regularly get almost killed by drivers jumping red lights
<foobarry> happens a lot
<ujjain> i'll post a request for a rocket launcher on craigslist, if this happens again, at least i can take action, it should jump out between all the sex ads
<foobarry> craiglist is in uk now?
<foobarry> use gumtree
<Myrtti> I finally managed to get my spun threads rinsed and hung to dry. pwah.
<davmor2> ujjain: ah you see the mistake most people make is that the person in the car isn't a moron
<foobarry> Myrtti: my wife has been lent a spinning wheel to try
<foobarry> ahead of a purchase
<foobarry> cranked it up yesterday
<Myrtti> whee, beware it's an addiction
<Myrtti> I'd much rather spin than knit these days
<foobarry> its the kromski sonata one
<foobarry> she also has stinky sheep fleeces in the loft
<Myrtti> then again if you spin, the yarn for knitting is cheaper than bought from store, if you don't count in the time spent on spinning
<foobarry> i don't consider it an economy at all, certainly an expensive hobby instead...
<foobarry> Myrtti: why would/might it be necessary to buy an extra fly wheel?
<davmor2> foobarry: depends there are hand spinners requested from Knitting wool firms but you have to be damn good for that
<Myrtti> foobarry: that sounds odd, the only reason I can think of is that it's damaged so it's not balanced properly anymore
<davmor2> foobarry: hand spun yarn is damned expensive, normal yarn isn't cheap.  Average now is Â£5-10 + per ball
<Myrtti> gnawed by an animal or something
<foobarry> maybe the owner bought an extra bobbin rather than the flywheel
<Myrtti> foobarry: or a flyer
<Myrtti> extra flyers I can understand
<foobarry> yes, the flyer
<foobarry> thats what i mean
<foobarry> the thing on top?
<Myrtti> oh, that's a totally different thing then
<Myrtti> foobarry: http://joyofhandspinning.com/parts-of-the-spinning-wheel/
<Myrtti> davmor2: handspun is cheap if you spin yourself from cheap materials you dye yourself ;-)
<foobarry> flyer
<davmor2> Myrtti: yeah my point was if you buy it from a shop it isn't, hence it can be be a very economic hobby
<foobarry> except the outlay for a wheel is ~400
<foobarry> why would one need another flyer?
<Myrtti> foobarry: there's different types of flyers: static hooks, sliding hooks, selfwinding flyers, orifices can be bigger or smaller, etc.
<foobarry> for different yarns?
<Myrtti> if the speed of the flyer can't be adjusted otherwise, then it might be up to the flyer to adjust it
<Myrtti> I'd really want a Wolee Winder but it's damned expensive.
<diddledan> yawn
<diddledan> so my weekend of hacking caught up with me and I went unconscious
<foobarry> :-|
<daftykins> haha, inevitable!
<foobarry> if i was to convert a few dvds to digital format for easy access from my NAS, what's the recommended format to use? is there a recommended prog to chug away while i work?
<ali1234> handbrake
<ali1234> and .h264
<daftykins> i'd agree with ali1234 if you insist on converting
<daftykins> just dumping ISOs 1:1 is an easy way to go, but you'd have a lot of the unnecessary cruft and munch through disk space pretty quick
<foobarry> h264 is the codec or container?
<daftykins> video codec
<foobarry> better than mp4?
<daftykins> you'd want to use matroska as the container *.mkv
<daftykins> yes
<popey> i use mencoder these days
<popey> two pass encoding to make decent videos for uploading
<foobarry> popey: got a nice one liner to share ?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> mp4 is a container format
<popey> two liner
<foobarry> much obliged
<ali1234> h264 in mp4 is what you find on blurays
<foobarry> ali1234: ok i had it back to front. h264 is the codec and mp4 is container. i get it
<dwatkins> vote for HandBrakeCLI here, preset="High Profile" does the trick for me
<ali1234> use mp4 container if you want to play back on embedded players
<ali1234> use mkv if you will playback on PCs
<ali1234> *only
<foobarry> will prob be playback on tablet and tv (via chromecast hopefully somehow)
<daftykins> i still need to master bluray conversion, but i still doubt it can be made simple
<ali1234> then you almost certainly will be better off with mp4
<ali1234> but you might get away with mkv depending on player software
<daftykins> foobarry: you want yourself a nice little XBMC device ;)
<daftykins> XBMC's available for android too and can hook up to the NAS to play direct
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7760472/ foobarry sommat like that
<ali1234> hmm i didnt know that, i will have to try installing it
<foobarry> thanks popester
<ali1234> maybe then i can watch recordings from mythtv
<ali1234> on android
<popey> foobarry: np, fiddle with the fps and bitrate
<popey> the rest should work fine
<daftykins> ali1234: don't see why not! they don't publish yet though so you must sideload the APK
<foobarry> so the input is dev/sr0
<ali1234> of course
<foobarry> daftykins: is xmbc heavy on android?
<foobarry> its just the player right?
<daftykins> never tried it
<daftykins> i have an ubuntu based Ion HTPC running it though
<daftykins> in fact i really need to update that as it's on an old XBMC and EOL 12.10
<daftykins> wow digitalocean VPSs are cool
<ali1234> now everyone is here, who wants to test something for me? http://paste.ubuntu.com/7760499/
<popey> everyone â»
<ali1234> oh and ideally i need this confirmed on unity or gnome
<ali1234> hmm wait, i see the problem
<ali1234> variable expansion isn't working
<ali1234> no wonder it crashes
<foobarry> was about to buy a moto G LTE but there's a problem with them
<foobarry> https://forums.motorola.com/posts/7e59cc7baf?commentId=787999#787999
<daftykins> yep they're Motorola
<foobarry> the moto g is great
<foobarry> but they didn't test the feature they added to the new one
<awilkins> Got the offspring a Moto G
<awilkins> (not an LTE one)
<awilkins> She's very happy with it
<foobarry> oh?
<foobarry> i know 4 people with it
<daftykins> as long as you can get cyanogenmod on there or frequent updates i'm sure it's passable :)
<nigelb> I have a Moto G.
<nigelb> Very happy with it.
<nigelb> (not-LTE)
<foobarry> motog comes with 4.4.2
<foobarry> awilkins: i misread your post
<foobarry> everybody v happy :D
<foobarry> i inserted the not from the previous sentence into the last sentence
<foobarry> i have a htc desire, very unhappy with it after 5+ years
<nigelb> I'm told that people unhappy with android did not have stock android
<nigelb> almost always there was somethign samsung or htc did which made it more awful.
<mapp> hm
<mapp> need a good tutorial for openswan
<awilkins> Wouldn't Moto phones be stock now, since Google bought them?
<foobarry> i thouht lenovo bought them since then
<foobarry> yes moto are stock
<foobarry> my htc has been stock for years but is so slow now it is considered broken
<davmor2> nigelb: I disagree I think some of the samsung things made it a much nicer phone to use, however others like splitting the settings app up were stupid
<nigelb> davmor2: the "I'm told" applies to both sentences if it wasn't obvious :)
<nigelb> I'm kind of excited for android one.
<davmor2> nigelb: I'm kinda excited for meizu and bq phones.  Particularly the BQ one it look pretty :)
<nigelb> :)
<ali1234> okay, i fixed it
<ali1234> what does everyone get if they do echo $XDG_DATA_DIRS --- $DESKTOP_SESSION
<diddledan> /usr/share/ubuntu:/usr/share/gnome:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/ --- ubuntu
<ali1234> hmm i see, thanks
<ali1234> so some piece of software in xfce is messing with XDG_DATA_DIRS after it's already been set up
<diddledan> joy
<ali1234> I get /usr/share/xubuntu:/usr/share/xfce4:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share --- xubuntu
<ali1234> note that /usr/share appears twice
<ali1234> if you remove one of them, half of the desktop will no longer function
<diddledan> wha?
<diddledan> that doesn't make sense
<ali1234> yeah i know right
<diddledan> oooh - one of them has a trailing /
<ali1234> what is happening is that if you remove the one set by the general startup sequence, then the second one doesn't get added until after half the desktop already started
<ali1234> the trailing / is irrelevant
<ali1234> so anyway, then half your desktop doesn't know to search /usr/share for icons etc, and that breaks *everthing*
<ali1234> the way the variable is set up is really crazy
<diddledan> aah I thought maybe xfce had some badly coded stuff that required the / and others that didn't
<ali1234> that was my initial suspicion but turns out that was wrong
<ali1234> removing the trailing slash from the first one doesn't cause the crash
<ali1234> you can't get rid of the second one or edit it at all
<ali1234> it's hardcoded somewhere it shoulnd't be
<diddledan> grr
<ali1234> so what happened was i wanted to edit the path so i did XDG_DATA_DIRS=$XDG_DATA_DIRS:/my/path
<ali1234> but this does not work, because of how the variable gets constructed - it's empty when your profile gets set up, and then the session adds stuff to it
<ali1234> but it only adds the default base dirs if the variable starts off empty
<ali1234> so my path got added to "", and then i lost the default dirs, which made everything crash
<ali1234> i find this to be unnecessarily confusing, but whatever
<ali1234> but hey, i have fully working portable steam now
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> what use is that?
<daftykins> (genuinely curious)
<ali1234> if i run out of space on / i can move steam to another drive without having to redownload every game
<ali1234> if i run out of space on that drive i can buy a bigger one and move it again
<ali1234> if i want to format / i can easily keep steam without having to extract all the pieces of it from my homedir
<ali1234> i can plug the drive into another computer and play the games, and also have all my saves available
<daftykins> hmm, can't see those use cases coming up but ok
<ali1234> only every six months
<ali1234> "i want to reinstall ubuntu, how do i back up steam?"
<ali1234> well, first back up ~/Steam, and ~/.steam
<ali1234> then go through ~/.config, ~/.local, and ~, and try to guess whether every file is somehow important to steam or not
<ali1234> if you guess wrong you lose your save games or steam forces you to redownload everything anyway
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7760847/ is what my special steam homedir looks like. remember that literally nothing but steam and things steam launches have been run in this homedir
<ali1234> notice how it likes to spray files all over the place, and especially that it has no control at all over where games make their saves
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> did JamesTait say it was chocolate day?
<JamesTait> I most certainly did.
<diddledan> I think I might have to oblige by eating
<daftykins> i just ate a blueberry muffin
<daftykins> i'm not sure i have chocolate in stock :<
<mapps> :<
<mapps> hm
<mapps> could i have my ubuntu machine serve up ipv6 addresses
<mapps> or would this cause problems with everything..because the routers giving out ipv4
<diddledan> you can have different machines providing the ip6 and ip4 connections respectively
<mapps> so i could leave everything as it is now
<mapps> and i dont need more NICs or anything?
<diddledan> yes and no more nics required
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> need to phone sky and student loan co again ;/ gotta send copy of my p60 apr-july payslips but not sure if by email is ok
<mapps> overpaid by 745 already;[ without julys pay
<mapps> annoying they just take it till you contact them
<mgdm> you're the second person I've heard say that today
<mgdm> that's incredible
<mapps> what is? that thats how they operate?
<mgdm> Yeah
<mapps> i thought so too..if i hadn't phoned up theyd keep taking till end of next March even though it's paid off in full
<mgdm> madness
<mapps> i had a statement from  saying i owed 3457 ..i phoned in April of this year to find out an up to date amount and all they can tell you is the last amount on the statement sent out a year ago
<mapps> somehow you pay monthly..but they dont seem to count it all till the end of the financial year
<mapps> very odd
<diddledan> foobarry: did you get your g-watch yet?
<diddledan> mine arrived this morning
<diddledan> at silly-o'clock
<mapps> is it radvd i need to look into diddledan?
<mgdm> mapps: I phoned them the other day to see how much I still owed, but they hadn't had last year's numbers yet, so all I know is valid from April 2013
<mgdm> *mutter(
<diddledan> mapps: radvd does the stateless autoconfiguration - you tell it what your routed /64 network is and that's about it - everything from then is magic
<mapps> yep thats what i meant mgdm i have astatement from april 2013..
<mapps> how useless is that
<mapps> i know ive paid it off by looking at my P60 and this years pay
<diddledan> mapps: alternatively you can use a dhcpv6 daemon (I don't know how to work those) OR manually configure each device
<mapps> but i mean..why isnt it like a normal loan where the balance is updated after every payment
<mapps> hmm hang on how will this work..i connect to my sky router and get ipv4..connect to the ubuntu machine over ipv4 and get ipv6 for which connection? argh i dont get it
<diddledan> mapps: ipv6 doesn't care what the ipv4 netowrk is doing
<mapps> yea but i mean i have to be connected over ipv4 to get the ipv6?
<diddledan> nope
<mapps> else i cant reach the ubuntu machine?
<diddledan> ipv6 is the same layer of the OSI model as ipv4 - they work entirely independently
<daftykins> double whammy DHCP
<diddledan> you reach the ubuntu machine via ipv6
<mapps> but how if my laptop doesnt already have ipv6 connectivity
<diddledan> arp
<diddledan> your laptop will arp broadcast for an ipv6 configuration service (radvd) which will respond with an assignment
<mapps> im confused;/ if i wasnt connected to my router now id have no connection to the ubuntu machine
<diddledan> it works the same way as ipv4 gets assigned when you have no configuration - you can't reach your router via ip4 until you've received a broadcast dhcp response (radvd takes this place in ipv6)
<mapps> still struggling to get it..so i dont need to be able to reach the machine over ipv4?
<diddledan> ethernet is a layer below ipv4 and 6 which does the broadcasting
<diddledan> nope not at all
<diddledan> ethernet takes care of the connection
<mapps> doesnt matter that ones wireless?
<diddledan> wireless is still ethernet
<mapps> yea
<mapps> hope theres a good tutorial for radvd:)
<diddledan> radvd doesn't really need a tutorial - it's fire and forget
<diddledan> you turn it on and then it's magic thereafter
<mapps> hm
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> guess il try
<diddledan> think of it like this: when you turn on your laptop it knows nothing of your network so it yells over ethernet "I NEED AN ADDRESS" to which dhcp on your sky router will reply with an ipv4 assignment and radvd on your ubuntu box will reply with an ipv6 assignment - these both happen simultaneously and do not require one to occur before the other
<diddledan> likewise in the future when ipv4 is turned off you'll just not get the dhcp response and ONLY get an ipv6
<diddledan> it'll still in this case even though ipv4 isn't there
<mapps> thanks , sure itll take me a while to sort out;p
<daftykins> i've not bothered to play with v6 yet, don't see the point
<daftykins> i've fixed up this iPhone 4 for a friend but it's locked to Three, i'm impatiently awaiting him to phone them up and get it unlocked :D
<daftykins> we don't have locked phones down here so this is a first for me
<popey> wifeys 4 is getting a bit sluggish
<popey> going to give her my 4s
<mapps> 5s ftw
<mapps> :D
<mapps> il get the 6 when it comes out too
<popey> my Firefox Flame was dispatched from Singapore today
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n4l80ponadsnxub/AACOzMVpkOtLCIfZg2yeyq9Pa
<daftykins> this is what i got given to work with XD
<diddledan> ipv4 and ipv6 (and the myriad of other protocols such as icmp - pings aren't part if IP!) are all based on ethernet which has arp to work out where to send things. when you try to communicate with "an ip" ethernet will yell onto it's wire/wireless connection "WHO HAS THIS IP" using ARP (Address resolution protocol) and the response is a network adapter's MAC address of the machine which claims to own that IP. Once your machine knows the
<diddledan>  target MAC address it no longer cares about the IP address and fires packets with the target mac address embedded. ethernet is entirely broadcast - there's no concept of a route from a-to-b - that's higher up. so the packet with the target mac just gets fired into the network and it's up to whoever wants to receive it to do so
<daftykins> popey: the ol' downside to perpetual upgrades i suspect?
<daftykins> too new an OS and it grinds to a halt :D
<popey> yeah
<daftykins> my mate just had this sat in a tupperware container and said "do you fancy a challenge?"
<daftykins> he was struggling to reassemble it from what i gathered, now it needs the power button replaced and it'll be working again
<diddledan> packet-switching makes this less true, but that's another story - before we had "network switches" we had "network hubs" which take input from each connected device and copies it to every other connected device. switches on the other hand maintain a mac-address table so they know which port to send it out of thereby reducing noise to uninterested parties
<daftykins> only worth about Â£100-130 on ebay now though
<popey> heh
<daftykins> parts will cost Â£7 on ebay to fix :D
<daftykins> weirdly it needs a static IP assigned to work on my wireless right now 0o
<daftykins> would you guys say it makes sense to stick to 32-bit for VPSs with ~1GB RAM? seems sensible to me to reduce memory footprint potentially
<popey> depends what else might interchange with it, and what you use it for
<popey> i have a 64-bit vps which i use for 64-bit package builds
<popey> but in general, yeah
<daftykins> just simple web servers really
<popey> unless i knew they were going to upgrade my ram in the future
<popey> and I ended up getting stuck at 3GB becuase I didnt make it 64-bit in the first place
<daftykins> doh! :)
<daftykins> a friend runs an art gallery so i'm pushing the VPS + wordpress + theme approach once more
<mapps> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2682682/Like-jumping-Empire-State-Building-Owner-worlds-tallest-water-slide-tests-launch-delayed-time-admits-scariest-thing-hes-done.html
<mapps> wont catch me on that
<davmor2> mapps: wuss
<mapps> ;]
<DJones> Looks fun
<mapps> so tomorrow il ring sky and hopefully i can finally order my fibre
<mapps> ;[
<mapps> 5 weeks ago phoned up moved my phone to sky and ordered sky fibre pro told 2-3wks ..come back a week later and a letter saying i have ADSL unlimited..phoned them told it was a mistake order went wrong..then last week told its not letting them upgrsde me to fibre even tho its showing as in my area
<mapps> no doubt tomorrow will be a bundle of fun
<diddledan> oh dear
<diddledan> that sounds like a mess
<diddledan> my watch just informed me that "ahdb pqq" is due - I have no idea what that is
<ali1234> it's upside down. it actually says "bbd qpyg"
<diddledan> because that's so much more meaningful?
<ali1234> sure, everyone knows the bbd qpyg right?
<diddledan> I fear I've missed out
<shauno_> a welsh watch?
<mapps> well yea diddledan
<mapps> thing is..they put through my phone transfer and fibre at same time..somehow apparently it can cause problems..so rather than do it seperately
<mapps> they did nothing
<mapps> so i come back from a weeks holiday and theyve done 0
<mapps> yet i paid my activation fee agreed the terms etc..so what were they playing at
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-08
<diddledan> shauno_: dark mode in yosemite has arrived
<shauno_> ages ago :p
<diddledan> really? I only got the announcement by the app store of the update being available a little while ago (the red "1" badge appeared)
<diddledan> brb.. installing it
<shauno_> dark mode was in update2, it just wasn't exposed in the UI
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jsxnil5tzd8hh2/2014-07-08%2001.24.54.jpg I've only had it for a few hours...
 * Azelphur loves this stuff
<diddledan> how'd you do that?
<mapps> cool
<Azelphur> diddledan: same way as with any android device really
<Azelphur> I'm trying to get it rooted now
<Azelphur> you can just tap the build number a bunch of times in settings > about to get the dev menu to appear, then enable USB debugging
<Azelphur> then you can oem unlock
<mapps> 	ipv6-frogs.uni.cx / frogs.zapto.org
<mapps> yay
<mapps> ipv6 working
<Azelphur> I have it native on my ISP :)
<diddledan> it now say open your companion device to allow debugging
<mapps> plusnet?
<mapps> can anyone recommend a good tutorial for setting up openswan or strongswan?
<diddledan> Azelphur: how do I turn on debugging?
<Azelphur> diddledan: you have to allow debugging just like you do normally
<Azelphur> open the phone up and accept the prompt
<diddledan> there is no prompt
<Azelphur> possible that you don't have your watch plugged into your PC
<Azelphur> also make sure you have your watch in the dock the right way around, I did that :x
<diddledan> no, I really do have it plugged in
<Azelphur> sudo adb devices?
<diddledan> adb devices says it's offline
<Azelphur> not sure then, wfm
<diddledan> step by step what did you do
<diddledan> including plugging and unpugging things
<Azelphur> diddledan: plugged into PC, tapped developer a bunch of times, got developer mode, enabled ADB over USB, opened my phone up and the request was right there.
<Azelphur> try unplugging and replugging everything
<diddledan> was you phone plugged anywhere?
<Azelphur> no
<diddledan> I don't have an adb over usb option - only an "adb debugging" option
<Azelphur> yea, ADB Debugging is what I turned on
<Azelphur> lol, got root
<mapps> has noone setup openswan/strongswan?:<
<diddledan> is debugging over bluetooth turned on?
<Azelphur> diddledan: no
<diddledan> maybe it's a bug in android L preview
<Azelphur> dunno, maybe
<ali1234> make sure to update your adb version to the latest
<diddledan> I'm using whichever adb gets downloaded by the phablet development environment
<diddledan> I guess I could try a direct download
<diddledan> 1.0.31 apparently
<Azelphur> I got superuser.apk sideloaded
<Azelphur> crashes on startup though
<diddledan> odd. it works using adb from the ubuntu 14.04 repo - which reports the same version number when running `adb version`
<diddledan> \i'm now unlocked
<Azelphur> sweet
<Azelphur> I'm rooted and working on supersu, http://pastebin.com/XKKw36r0
<Azelphur> looks like it depends on the stock android settings
<diddledan> I'm gonna call it a night
<diddledan> see yall on the morrow
<mapps> cya mate
<MooDoo> hello all
<mapps> hey
<mapps> sup MooDoo
<mapps> went to genting had 8pints
<mapps> went downthe road had anothe 4
<MooDoo> wow, nowadays i'd be in bed after 4 lol
<mapps> very funny
<mapps> told u im a problem drinker
<MooDoo> yeah....:S
<mapps> genting is good tho:)
<mapps> they all know me..so
<mapps> the manage gives us free beers almost weekly
<MooDoo> as long as it's nice beer and not the dregs
<mapps> and the guy behid the bar is our mate he serves me for free -
<mapps> i buy him tobacco when i go abroad:_)
<MooDoo> congrats popey, ubuntu membership board again?
<Myrtti> morning
<MooDoo> morning Myrtti
<popey> MooDoo: heh, yeah
<mapps> hi popey
<mapps> ;]
<popey> yo
<jussi> popey: I do beleive you are sent from somewhere evil... :P :P where am I supposed to find time to play such awesome games as you recommend...?
<MooDoo> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad  - we're all doing something wrong here :)
<hoover_> hi folks
<MooDoo> hi bye
<Myrtti> is there any videos around about how to do a podcast using Linux tools?
<bashrc> I don't know much about podcasting, but audacity seems popular for that, plus getting a good microphone seems to be recommended
<MooDoo> yeah audacity is good, all you need is a good mike and a copy of that.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy SCUD Day! :-D
<MooDoo> Myrtti: popey would be a good person to speak to what with uukpc and all that.
<Myrtti> MooDoo: yeah I know. UUPC should do a indiegogo or kickstarter or whatever, I'd pitch in my support in creating that tutorial video.
<Myrtti> or maybe I should poke Linux Voice people about that
<MooDoo> Myrtti: I wouldn't have thought it would require a video, audacity is so simple to use, have you installed it and taken a look?
<MooDoo> the problem arises when you want to have more than one person speaking, then you have too look at extra mics, recoding multi channels etc, but for one person it's quite simple imho
<popey> we did actually do a video
<popey> can't find it now
<Myrtti> I'm just disappointed at the lack of Finnish (fabric/yarn) crafts podcasts
<Myrtti> so I was toying with the idea of making a podcast. Again.
<MooDoo> Myrtti: go for it :D
<ujjain> belt sizing is like jeans sizing?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and davmor2
<davmor2> morning brobostigon MooDoo
<davmor2> Hey MooDoo I see you went down the wrong path and picked Centos Server ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: I was already running it, just wanted oppinions.
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yeah, yeah ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: shut it :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahaha.  Did you have a play with juju and lxc yet?
<davmor2> MooDoo: particularly as it sounds like it is coming over to Centos too :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: no not looked into containers that much, but it's in centos 7
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's the future now ;)
<czajkowski> ello ello
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> howdy czajkowski
<DJones> Aww, scripts leaked for the new Dr Who series, thats going to give a lot of spoilers away
<popey> oh blimey
<DJones> Although, maybe could improve some peoples understanding of the episodes
<DJones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-28201577
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello stranger how's life treating you?
<adamcunnington_> I want to hide windows partitions on my ubuntu installation, I created the file 99-hide-disks.rules in etc/udev/d.rules/ but i can still see them
<Myrtti> ooohhhh
<Myrtti> today I learnt: CTRL-R (Ã¡ la http://www.tldp.org/LDP/GNU-Linux-Tools-Summary/html/x1712.htm)
<Myrtti> nifty
<bigcalm> Cooiee
<davmor2> bigcalm: what you doing online
<mgdm> Myrtti: That's the handiest thing in the world
<Myrtti> no kidding
<Myrtti> I just remembered the word mount, and boom presto, it found the oneliner I used to mount the NFS share
<bigcalm> Davmor2: passing some time while drinking tea in the forward bar.
<bigcalm> Not sure when I was last so relaxed
<bigcalm> What have I been missing?
<davmor2> bigcalm: well the lug meeting tomorrow for a kick off :P
<bigcalm> Ah sod
<davmor2> bigcalm: other than that not a lot ;)
<bigcalm> Hope you lot have been enjoying my photo tweets
<davmor2> bigcalm: the what?
<bigcalm> Tweets with photos
<davmor2> bigcalm: man I can tell you're on holiday you seemed to of forgotten that I'm sarcastic :P
<davmor2> EE just tried to sell me Home Phone and Broadband, I'm not sure he got the result he was after. Opening gambit was Do you not think VM is expensive, no, oh why's that, I pay you 64quid for 2 phones, I pay them 6 quid more for 2 tv packages, land line and broadband who's speed you can't match, okay bye :)
 * dwatkins wonders if there's a pub somewhere called Ten Forward
<bigcalm> If this ship had 11 levels, then I would hope they would call the forward bar as suck
<bigcalm> Such
<mgdm> thing is deck 10 would most likely be the engine room or something
<mgdm> unless it had an awful lot of decks
<bigcalm> Despite being in port, 4G connection while on the ship is pants
<bigcalm> Bloomin Faraday cage
<dwatkins> "Ten Forward" is also the name of a coffee shop in Los Angeles.
<popey> haha
<popey> you're on holiday dude
<Myrtti> I had a weeks holiday at home and barely had time to look at what's going on in IRC...
<dwatkins> I had a customer once whose cluster was only accessible via 9600 baud satellite link
<popey> I remember being in a hotel in Leeds, connected to the internet using the 9600 modem in my phone which I think was a 6210, maybe similar
<popey> had to do windows admin, vnc of a 1024x768 screen over 9600bps is not fun
<mgdm> ouch
<Myrtti> oof
<popey> fun that it worked tho
 * bigcalm goes to do more holiday stuff
<davmor2> popey: it's bigcalm he can't help himself
<dwatkins> I did lots of that on Sunday, and now my neck is sunburned.
<davmor2> popey: if his laptop went with them he would be working
<Myrtti> I'm heartbroken, I just realised it's not Thursday
<dwatkins> we can pretend it is if you like, Myrtti
 * bigcalm returns because there's nothing to do while Hayley takes a shower
<bigcalm> Back in our cabin, so I get to teather my laptop and use a sensible screen size for irc
<davmor2> bigcalm: Stop working NOW!
<bigcalm> Actually, I was thinking of playing minecraft
<bigcalm> I have 106mb left before I have to buy more data. Wonder if that will get me far with a public minecraft server
<dwatkins> good plan
<dwatkins> I remember the days when 64k was a lot of data ;)
<dwatkins> My Tomtom reminds me of this, as it has the boot screen from a BBC Micro.
<awilkins> Pah
<dwatkins> http://archive.retro-kit.co.uk/bbc.nvg.org/img/bbc-boot-anim.gif
<awilkins> ZX81
<awilkins> 1KB
<dwatkins> hardcore
<dwatkins> The BBC Lives! was Site of the day, August 14, 1996
<awilkins> Used to be able to write a fully functional drawing program in under 1K on a ZX81
<dwatkins> I remember typing-in one line BASIC programs
<awilkins> Of course, "fully functional" just meant "able to turn black dots on and off"
<dwatkins> that's good enough
<dwatkins> who needs a GUI?
<awilkins> it had a gui!
<awilkins> WEll, a flashing dot
<dwatkins> fantastic!
<dwatkins> hehe
<awilkins> And you pushed keys depending on whether you wanted to trail black or white when you moved it with the arrow keys
<awilkins> Used to type it in, and then draw Evil Edna
<joshua__> hey guys, can anyone see what is up with this logrotate script? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8598df621f9b85c4db99
<joshua__> the files rotate but the last action to upload them to s3 isn't working
<joshua__> when I run the action manually, it does work..
<dwatkins> joshua__: does logrotate know where s3cmd is, is it in the path that the script's context uses?
<dwatkins> perhaps try using the explicit path for s3cmd
<joshua__> I have other single file logrotate scrips that are the same and are working
<dwatkins> does the .2.gz file definitely exist at that time, or is the write asynchronous?
<diddledan> morning morning
<joshua__> it def exists..
<joshua__> this works for example: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/fa4d1960e2ccdf4e521a
<joshua__> If I run with debug and verbose:
<joshua__> running last action script
<joshua__> running script with arg /var/log/debug
<joshua__> : "
<joshua__>    s3cmd --config /root/.s3cfg put /var/log/debug.2.gz s3://mnp-logs/debug/`date "+%Y/%m/%d"`/debug-`date "+%Y-%m-%d"`-`hostname`.gz
<joshua__> "
<joshua__> eek, my bad
<p42phone> Waits in dus airport
<foobarry> got a weird picture i never seen before appearing in my google+ auto backup
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/VbHW93J.jpg
<foobarry> where could it have come from?#
<foobarry> ah, freenote app. weird.
<Myrtti> lovely, I just broke my 12.04 a bit :-(
<Myrtti> ooh, and I fixed it too.
<Myrtti> nice.
<ndf> anyone here know if when using safecopy --stage3 I had a failure, can I just start stage3 again? and once it finishes can I just run --stage3 again specifying -I stage3.badblocks -o stage4.badblocks ?
<ndf> exit back later
<ndf> oops lol
<foobarry> where do i find downloaded apks on my android device?
<foobarry> ah, superuser was disabled..
<ndf> how do I stop ubuntu-server (no x) from blanking the screen/turning off the monitor after a certain time? (I can't tell which it's doing, it's a virtualbox VM)
<MartijnVdS> ndf: http://superuser.com/questions/152347/change-linux-console-screen-blanking-behavior
<MartijnVdS> ndf: you can add a boot (kernel command line) parameter, "consoleblank=0" to disable it
<MartijnVdS> ndf: on an already-booted system you can use setterm
<ndf> thankyou =)
<ndf> I am also recovering a hard drive with safecopy, it's getting a lot of I/O errors... it  did actually tell me how to turn off the warning messages but I lost it in the scroll buffer(for some reason it won't let me Rshift+PgUp on that tty). Is there a way I can get back to it?
<MartijnVdS> not when it's scrolled away
<MartijnVdS> best to google it
<ndf> Yeah I am trying but it seems my term is a bit vague
<ndf> I wasn't actually getting these buffer I/O error messages on my ubuntu desktop machine, only on ubuntu-server - so there must be a config diffference there
<MartijnVdS> it's probably high priority kernel messages
<ndf> yeah, is there a standardised way to turn off certain messages? (in this case buffer I/O error)
<ndf> well there is, that's what I missed in that message in the scroll buffer
<ndf> never mind I'll carry on googling
<Myrtti> for those following the football: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/jul/07/whos-best-at-predicting-the-world-cup-nate-silver-bankers-or-a-cat-parasite
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-09
<MooDoo> hello all
<Myrtti> mornin
<MooDoo> wow flacky internet at home this morning :(
<Myrtti> oh man... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28223150
<MartijnVdS> yeah.. it's hard to backdoor an uncharged device
<MooDoo> more ways of affecting the public.
<SuperMatt> I'll be honest, I think if the authorities want to be able to access your device, they'll just take your device and plug it in
<MooDoo> they can have mine, as long as they don't mind seeing pics of my kids or cats.
<SuperMatt> I can imagine it'll be frustrating for people who need to take a laptop abroad that doesn't hold its charge
<MooDoo> I think they will check it before you get on then that's in....madness sheer madness
<SuperMatt> oh yay, we no support centos 7 without any training in systemd \o/
<MooDoo> so get training then
<SuperMatt> oh, and there's firewalld to learn as well
<SuperMatt> I'm so happy right now
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: come on your rhce, it's a breeze for you to learn
<SuperMatt> I was *rhcsa* but that has expired now
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you redoing it, it's omething I'm working too
<SuperMatt> nope
<MooDoo> oh ok
<SuperMatt> there's no call for people to do it here
<SuperMatt> once you're in, it's just a piece of paper
<popey> Morning!
<MooDoo> really?  ah right, thought rhce was a requirement.
<MooDoo> morning popey
<SuperMatt> some of the teams might have it as a requirement, I guess
<SuperMatt> especially if you're working in enterprise
<MooDoo> ah ok :D
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: having fun with leaflet?
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Rebuilt a map app in a few hours.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Swapped Google for OSM & LeafletJS
<TheOpenSourcerer> Piece of pie ;-)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<foobarry> how much has changed since rhce5 though tbh. upstart is going away too.
<foobarry> is centos7 64bit only?
<foobarry> maybe i386 come later when the build servers stop chugging
<MooDoo> foobarry: yes it's 64bit only
<MooDoo> foobarry: http://pastebin.com/MbL8GZMh
<MooDoo> it's RHEL, but read it as CentOS as well
<foobarry> interesting
<TwistedLucidity> This is weird. "host <ip>" and "dig -x <ip>" both work and I can see the name in the answer section. "dig <name>" doesn't. I see the authority section, but no answer. :-S
<TwistedLucidity> Annndd....good morning
<foobarry> is one result cached?
<TwistedLucidity> Might be up on the DNS server I guess.
<TwistedLucidity> But if it has and ip/name entry, why not just return it?
<foobarry> gives new meaning to the words ticket mountain. http://imgur.com/CmLuvLJ
<TwistedLucidity> Only 35? That's not many
<MooDoo> +1
<foobarry> new ticket system
<foobarry> also, we have intelligent users. most tickets are generally software compilation, packaging issues rather than "printer is broke" (which go to main helpdesk)
<foobarry> some tickets are taking longer than a week to resolve, which means, input > output ..
<foobarry> centos installer has got a bit nicer
<MooDoo> foobarry: shame no current inplace upgrade from 6.5 to 7
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm...there's a bunch of servers and vm guests with the strange asymmetric "dig" behaviour. Someone, somewhere, has messed up.
 * TwistedLucidity hops it wasn't him
<TwistedLucidity> *hopes
<MooDoo> duh duh durrrrrrr :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Sugar Cookie Day! :-D
<BigRedS_> sugar cookie day? really?
<foobarry> hard freeze during centos install :(
<JamesTait> BigRedS, it's on the internet, it must be true. ;)
<foobarry> after 6 weeks of trying, caught a mouse in the trap ye3steday
<foobarry> had to kill it. felt sick
<awilkins> When I has squirrels I fancied a Ratzapper 2000
<awilkins> *had
<awilkins> I had to make do with a cage trap. Offing them was also pretty nerve wracking
<DJones> foobarry: I'd lend you a dog, but I don't think my parents would be too happy, one of theirs chases and catches mice, then proceeds to eat them and then sick it up a couple of hours later
<foobarry> i have a ratter type dog
<foobarry> she seemed uninsterested, which is weird for her
<DJones> foobarry: This is a collie, should be chasing sheep, not mice
<foobarry> if the mouse is in the garden she tries to catch
<foobarry> she chases squirrels
<foobarry> if she saw the mouse scuttling across the floor maybe
<foobarry> she hates the meerkat toys
<foobarry> had to hide them instantly
<foobarry> bioshock in latest humble (windows) bundle
<foobarry> would you buy a storage device from this vendor? Mirror drives not read if there is a failed drive in a RAID 1 volume with more than 2 drives
<foobarry> shhh
<foobarry_> looks at topic. i don't think this chan is friendly to dogs.
<awilkins> That's because dogs are rubbish. They require your attention or they get all miserable.
<foobarry> reports awilkins to the dog police
<davmor2> foobarry: get a tiger you won't have any mice
<foobarry> can you guarantee that davmor2 ?
<diddledan> I've got some elephant-repellent
<davmor2> foobarry: I can guarantee that no mammal living will be alive with a tiger in the place ;)
<diddledan> I've not seen any elephants around here ever since I started using it
<awilkins> davmor2, The tiger is a mammal
<davmor2> awilkins: and after it eats everything it will starve to death, proving my point :P
<davmor2> diddledan: I bet you've been using Eagle repellent too right,  I've not seen many of those round here for a while :)
<foobarry> depends if it learns how to use the internet
<foobarry> and gets sainssburys to deliver
<diddledan> there's plenty of red kites around here tho
<davmor2> foobarry: or meals on wheels, or kids on bike, skateboards and heelies as they are otherwise known :)
<diddledan> kids on bikes make a good meal
<davmor2> diddledan: plenty of muscle and they won't out cycle the tiger :)
<foobarry> funny to see gnome3 type stuff on centos
<Guest29381> hi
<Guest29381> i need some help getting wifi driver compiled exit error code 2 . ok, the wifi was auto picked up and active but wouldnt connect. search found this:https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/852190Ubuntu bug 852190 in linux (Ubuntu) "7392:7811 Edimax EW-7811Un USB dongle won't connect to networks (rtl8192cu module)" [Medium,Incomplete] so i tried to modprobe,reboot, etc and now im trying to compile the linux driver on the disc th
<Guest29381> at came with it.  the pc is an rm all in one dual core with plenty of resources, running lubuntu 12.04. the wifi i try to connect to is open, i also set up my phone as an access point also open but wont conect. only get internet by usb tether to phone. my older laptop runs the latest xubuntu and works the wifi dongle fine. so can i copy files needed from my 32bit xubuntu laptop to the 12.04 64 tower? i downloaded the latest software from r
<Guest29381> tl, can i compile on 32 for 64?
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 852190 in linux (Ubuntu) "7392:7811 Edimax EW-7811Un USB dongle won't connect to networks (rtl8192cu module)" [Medium,Incomplete]
<Guest29381> thanks bot
<foobarry> tried a newer kernel? 12.04 can use them
<Guest29381> foobarry: that might be an option but i locked out usb and keyboard from the bios and these machines dont have removable media so i would need to strip the hardware to reinstall should it all go tits up
<bigcalm> Sup yall?
<foobarry> overwrote my grub2 with grub1...can't see the other os now :(
<mapps> hey
<foobarry> ho
<mapps> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2685996/Tattoo-addict-blames-OCD-face-body-art-spending-15-000-enduring-painful-skin-grafts-remove-old-designs.html
<mapps> LOL
<foobarry> top tip, you can paste a print friendly DM link and it doesn't show the sidebar of shame
<foobarry> grub2-install: "warning, setor 32 is already in use by flexnet"
<foobarry> wut?
<mapps> sidebar of shame?
<mapps> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2679117/Watch-ride-Zumanjaro-worlds-tallest-fastest-drop-ride-Six-Flags.html?printingPage=true
<mapps> not a chance id go on it:D
<jpds> foobarry: flexnet is a place where windows stores license keys.
<diddledan> how's that work then? : the 456ft monster that ranks as the world's tallest and fastest coaster in North America <-- it's either the world, or north america. it can't be both?
<diddledan> aah, thankyou DM, I was hoping you'd use the elephant scale
<diddledan> "The ride uses a massive 5,551ft of cable, a grand total of 26,502 bolts and has enough steel structuring reinforcing columns added to equal the weight of 32 massive African elephants"
<diddledan> where on earth would we be without the DM Elephant scale?!
<ndf> is there a way to temporarily turn off kernel messages about I/O errors on a (usb)disk? [/dev/sdb]
<directhex> is anyone on a desktop with support for surround sound?
<directhex> (don't actually need surround speakers connected)
<daftykins> directhex: running ubuntu? :) digital connections count?
<directhex> daftykins, never mind tbh, it's all full of bees
<daftykins> well i'm glad i didn't go in there
<foobarry> jpds: in the MBR?
<jpds> foobarry: Yep.
<foobarry> that sucks
<jpds> foobarry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexnet
<foobarry> "Basically, FlexNet works by writing stuff directly to the hard drive, to unallocated space between the Master Boot Record, and the first partition. That means there is a good chance it will break your bootloader, in case you are not using only Windows."
<daftykins> sounds like some utterly irresponsible devs that should be fired out of a cannon
<MartijnVdS> "it's a feature"
<foobarry> i just unfeatured it
<foobarry> however grub2 now not recognising centos6 isntall :(
<foobarry> even running grub2-install
<popey> marxjohnson: boo
<diddledan> time for on-demand 24
<daftykins> http://www.solid-run.com/products/hummingboard/
<daftykins> i'm sure that's old news to some, but meh
<popey> yeah, saw an article but no detail about it
<popey> looks natty
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> although one going up to $100 is a bit much
<diddledan> interesting that it's the same layout as the pi
<daftykins> very good move imo, re-usable cases \o/ prevent waste
<diddledan> oh dear @ 24
<diddledan> the daughter of the prez is in trouble now
<diddledan> </spoilers>
<daftykins> diddledan: dog damn it you say one moar word!
<diddledan> flibble
<daftykins> diddledan: Mr. ?
<diddledan> apparently police dogs can sniff out paedophiles
<diddledan> http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2014/07/08/police-dog-catches-paedophiles-by-sniffing-out-their-hidden-hard-drives/
<daftykins> that strikes me as an absolute crock
<diddledan> this really hurts my head: https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/s526x395/10491281_10152246467378581_1634055452623940356_n.jpg
<daftykins> seems fine to me
<daftykins> ugh all i can hear are intermittent cackles coming from the neighbours
<daftykins> they have a window wide open and these old houses have single pane glass windows and badly fitting doors
<daftykins> so i say something or save it for the next day when his pals are gone and there's probably no booze involved 0o
<daftykins> *do i
<diddledan> how about some loud muzak?
<diddledan> make them complain first
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> my house is granite, the sound doesn't leave
<dwatkins> My neighbour was watching something loud on TV, seems to have stopped now thankfully.
<dwatkins> I considered taking it up with them or (if necessary) the council, but heared too many stories about loud neighbours who got worse when reported :-
<dwatkins> :-/ even
<diddledan> grr, google haven't launched the "ok, google! what's on my chromecast?" response mechanism yet
<diddledan> I wanted to know more about an image
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> dwatkins: have you spoken to the neighbour yet?
<daftykins> i can see how someone would get annoyed if they weren't spoken to first
<diddledan> daftykins: some folk might not feel confident enough to talk to the neighbour first
<daftykins> i can understand that
<daftykins> Joe 90 \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-10
<diddledan> https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=glass_shale
<daftykins> gah can you screenshot? play store devices are blocked in the channel islands again
<daftykins> i'm too tired to proxy
<diddledan> http://imgur.com/6BLymDa
<daftykins> ty sir
<daftykins> cor, cheap!
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> so I installed centos 7 on a box with centos 6 working flawlessly... my wifi didn't work
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: upgraded?
<SuperMatt> installed over the top
<SuperMatt> you can't really "upgrade" yet
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I know that's why I asked, thought they might have released the upgrade tools lol
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: did it work as I'm thinking of doing my server
<SuperMatt> well, everything worked except my wifi
<SuperMatt> and the nuveau drivers were pitifully slow
<MooDoo> well i don't use wifi and it's a headless server so not bother about that
<SuperMatt> well then, it should be fine
<SuperMatt> there is an epel beta release
<MooDoo> yeah that's what I use currently.  I might wait for the point release though, it's all sooooo new :D  If I had the hardware i'd have a new machine but I don't lol
 * SuperMatt checks if rackers have pulled their finger out and pushed IUS 7
<SuperMatt> nope
<SuperMatt> bloomin rackers!
<SuperMatt> can't trust them to do anything
<SuperMatt> also: I'm allowed to say that
<foobarry> which wifi card SuperMatt
<foobarry> wifiex kickstarter has gone
<popey> hah
<foobarry> will i get my money back?
<popey> wonder if they got their money
<foobarry> my money stayed in my wallet for meaningless vapourware product
<SuperMatt> foobarry: no idea
<foobarry> i remember somebody tried selling ubuntu on a usb stick for money, and people bought it because it was a kickstarter
<SuperMatt> >.<
<SuperMatt> I wouldn't mind if canonical tried to kickstart a usb stick program for 1) getting usb sticks to normal users and 2) using the rest of the money to get it out to other countries with poor internet
<popey> well, it was a tiny bit more than that
<popey> and even then they messed up
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/750308586/stormfly-like-a-pc-on-your-wrist
<bashrc> usb boot drive becomes wristband
<awilkins> "If you reformat your StormFly completely you will lose the OS installed on it and all the magic of StormFly. "
<awilkins> In other words ; it's a standard USB drive with some software on it.
<bashrc> woohoo
<foobarry> We're sorry but for now the StormFly Store is closed. You can however still purchase StormFly at Amazon by clicking here
<foobarry> amazon shows nothing
<awilkins> I used to do this with my USB drives
<bashrc> I like things that are wearable though.  There's a certain amount of unused realestate on my wrists
<awilkins> Actually install the OS on a partition rather than just doing the FAT32 thing
<foobarry> for $59 :-|
<awilkins> The trick is that Windows in particular only wants to read the first partition on a removable USB
<awilkins> That is marked as a thumb drive
<awilkins> So if you have a shared FAT32 partition you put it on as the first partition and you're golden
<foobarry> popey: did stomrfly ever become a product?
<awilkins> It got the successful backing of $120k
<popey> yes
<popey> they sent them out
<popey> but the far east company that made them, cut corners making the things very unreliable
<popey> so they had to replace a lot of them
<popey> i suspect this burned through their cash.
<popey> The fact that they had a backup tool on the device which backed up to "the cloud" which is probably now shut down - is going to be annoying for anyone who did get one
<foobarry> half baked
<awilkins> I think that $19.99 a year for the backup service was probably part of their business plan. Along with overcharging for USB storage, of course.
<MooDoo> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28237108 - terrible
<awilkins> Hmm, yes, they wouldn't want to have to keep asking the NSA for that data, would they...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Donât Step On A Bee Day! :-D
<Laney> that's every day :(
<popey> is there a "Step on a bee day"?
<bashrc> alternatively you could just carry a USB drive in your pocket
<awilkins> I have several in my bag
<awilkins> I think I carry around about 128GB of removable flash
<bashrc> emergency storage law? Can't they just get wristbands?
<awilkins> It's just an excuse for the ISPs who are now stuck between the legal rock and the hard place - EU law says they should delete that data
<foobarry> i wore a hole in my pocket because of usb keys
<bashrc> so what's hte emergency between now and 2016?
<awilkins> So they now have an excuse to dither. What big ISP wants to incur the wrath of government by not being able to service their warrants?
<awilkins> The emergency is that with the EU having made it illegal that the ISPs might delete their historic data to be compliant with that law.
<awilkins> We can't have that! We'd have to ask the NSA for their "metadata"!
<awilkins> Arrgh, emacs stole my file association for shell scripts
<foobarry> how 90s.
<bashrc> you mean that you don't live in emacs?
<awilkins> I only installed it to try out Org Mode
<bashrc> I use org mode all the time
<bashrc> and org agenda
<awilkins> Does it grow on you? So far my opinion that it's not worth the pain of using Emacs
<bashrc> I think org mode is about the fastest way I've seen to take notes and organise tasks
<bashrc> it makes messing around with markdown look cumbersome
<awilkins> I've been using FreeMind for organizing things
 * awilkins wonders if vim-orgmode works well
 * bashrc wonders if there is a mind mapping mode in emacs
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<MooDoo> hay brobostigon bashrc :D
<DJones> Morning and here's one for cat lovers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr39jPapmBU How on earth do you get so many cats to sit in one place like that
<brobostigon> hey MooDoo :)
<dwatkins> daftykins: I never did take up the noise issues with the downstairs guy, no - I knocked on the door once, but he didn't answer (he did stop talking loudly to the radio at that point, though)
 * awilkins now has org-mode for Vim and has no idea what to do with it
<awilkins> Yay!
<dwatkins> task management? neat
<dwatkins> I use hnb sometimes for that.
<dwatkins> http://hnb.sourceforge.net/
<awilkins> I usually use FreeMind / Redmine
<awilkins> An org exporter for Redmine would probably be super awesome
<awilkins> If I had a handle on how  to use org mode
<dwatkins> Shouldn't be too difficult in these days of XML...
<awilkins> Oh, no, probably not
<dwatkins> Am I being too optimistic? ;)
<awilkins> Already wrote a thing to upload redmine tickets in bulk in about 50 lines of Python
 * foobarry does a redmine dance
<awilkins> Wrote a routine that eats files as record-jar and presents them as a list of dict
<awilkins> Then just a quick thing that maps each dict to a new issue using one of the lovely Redmine API libraries
<awilkins> Makes for much easier management of hyuuuuge lists of user stories into tickets
<awilkins> Especially when you end up editing them iteratively a lot before you upload them
<MooDoo> :)
<Laney> ooh, new toys
<Laney> heat gun, infrared thermometer
<MooDoo> ooo what you got?
<MooDoo> lol
<Laney> replacing glass on phone
<Laney> need to melt glue holding it on
<Laney> I did consider putting it under the grill ...
<popey> nexus 4?
<Laney> galaxy s3
<Laney> that kicks out a good bit of heat :D
<foobarry> can anyone help with grub2 not detecting centos6 install? supergrub2 cd does detect it
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<bigcalm> Am I missing much?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Hey we were missing you
<davmor2> bigcalm: no one to pick on, hurry back :D
<bigcalm> Chin
<bigcalm> Ha
<bigcalm> How was the LUG?
<davmor2> bigcalm: so the government are being a menace and pushing through a law that lasts for year as an emergency measure for our safety, making phone companies track who you ring when
<davmor2> oh and text and email
<foobarry> btw they will rtack your ip if you search for privacy software or use it
<bigcalm> Just the meta data?
<davmor2> bigcalm: well lets say yes
<bigcalm> Not coil man
<bigcalm> Not cool man
<bigcalm> Damn autocorrelation on my phone
<bigcalm> Auto correct
<foobarry> oh no!! it's coil man!!! not coil man !!
<foobarry> man , microsoft made me work had for that survey
<foobarry> only got a quid for it
<bashrc> davmor2: I recommend using Tor for most things. They may track your IP but are unlikely to know what you're reading
<foobarry> tor de france
<davmor2> bashrc: That kinda make you more suspicious though surely :)
<davmor2> bashrc: they can read the stuff I look at they'll be bored before I am :)
<diddledan> the more people that use tor the less suspicious it looks
<MooDoo> i bet lots more will as soon as the bill is passed
<diddledan> right now the NSA are classing anyone who goes to the tor project website as a potential adversary
<diddledan> that needs to change!
<MooDoo> it won't
<diddledan> likewise visitors to the linux foundation are also classed as criminals
<diddledan> because why would you use linux if you're not a pervert?
 * awilkins is a Linux-using pervert and proud!
<awilkins> (the two are orthogonal)
<diddledan> yey for the tory government: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/no-emergency-stop-the-data-retention-stitch-up
<foobarry> tories don't have a majority
<foobarry> Prime Minister David Cameron has secured the backing of all three main parties for the highly unusual move.
<awilkins> Just the announcement has had the chilling effect they desire I bet... unless there are ISPs right now deleting their logs in response to the "if we don't pass this law quick, people might delete their logs"....
<awilkins> "We deleted all those logs when the EU made it illegal to retain them. Oh, sorry, did you want access to them?"
<foobarry> party like its 1984
<diddledan> all previous 8 seasons of 24 are on sale at googley play-doh
<diddledan> 7.99 each
<MooDoo> pay?   for tv shows?
<foobarry> think i'll read the wikipedia page instead
<foobarry> watch? 8*24?
<awilkins> Isn't 24 on Netflix?
<MooDoo> yes
<awilkins> Â£7.99 and binge watch all 8 seasons in a month
<awilkins> Oh, ok, Â£5.99
<diddledan> yah but netflix is at the whim of content licensors
<popey> what non-authenticating website (other than anything big like amazon / google / ebay) could you not live without.. *catch* which has an API to access the content/features?
<awilkins> True
<popey> (by non-auth I mean you can use it without logging in)
<foobarry> bug tracking ones
<awilkins> They are selling box sets of Netflix original series!
<popey> ooh! good call
<foobarry> launchpad/redmine/trac/
<awilkins> For box set prices! Â£18 a season
<foobarry> bugzilla
<foobarry> another one is the tfl site
<foobarry> for journey data
<foobarry> and train info
<popey> good one
<foobarry> greater anglia train etc
<awilkins> They don't put "Netflix" anywhere on the box, probably because people would go.... "D'uh, I can have 3 months Netflix for the cost of this box set and watch a whole lot more than just Hemlock Grove.."
<popey> right, trains in general..
<foobarry> started playing with redmine REST api
<awilkins> foobarry, I started with the Ruby / ActiveRecord as an API wrapper but someone wrote a pretty nice Python one
<awilkins> Ruby brings me out in hives
<foobarry> cheese and chive
<foobarry> the best app i use is for bus travel data. really handy
<foobarry> i remember a UUPC chat with a guy from southampton that was turning the whole campus into open data json accessible, and user created content (e.g. i vommed on this statue one night i was drunk)
<popey> hehe
<shauno_> I Wish our busses had an api.  I screen-scrape it for a widget instead :/
<awilkins> There's the Steam API. Which I don't use and can't live without, but someone did a thing that enumerates all your games and tells you how much money you would have spent if you bought them all today...
<awilkins> .. and how long you spent playing them all
<awilkins> *can live without
<popey> Wheee, a380 is in the air
<popey> http://www.flightradar24.com/A380/3c76553
<awilkins> That thing is rather sobering
<awilkins> LOTS of planes
<dwatkins> that's a big bird
<MooDoo> what?
<dwatkins> two planes are taking off from Edinburgh at the same time
<dwatkins> the A380 airbus, MooDoo
<dwatkins> oh ok, one just landed and is taxiing
<MooDoo> ah get ya lol
<diddledan> the a380 to skiathos is doing weird maneouvers
<diplo> heh i was watching that one diddledan
<diplo> I thought the 380's were for long distance ?
<popey> air show diddledan
<popey> its doing practice fly-pass of the airport
<popey> just got some nice photos of it outside
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> when is the show?
<diddledan> (I might attend)
<diddledan> I like the farnborough show
<dwatkins> perhaps it needs the loo
<popey> next week
<diddledan> gotcha
<popey> we get half price tickets, but will probably just watch from the garden â»
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> traffic is better when you don't drive and just garden it
<diddledan> google are on the spamhaus blocklist :-( http://cbl.abuseat.org/lookup.cgi?ip=209.85.223.176
<diddledan> was..
<diddledan> it's gone now
<diddledan> 8 minutes ago ?
<diplo> ProActive action by Google :)
<popey> that thing is surprisingly quiet
<foobarry> i have a revell model of a c17 globemaster. 1/144 scale. still massive
<foobarry> don't think i'll ever make it
<foobarry> as seen in superman of steel
<popey> some fighter just went up
<davmor2> popey: outside? You should be at work sunshine and none of this I was testing the camera app improvements ;)
<popey> dammit, should have taken a pic of the a380 with my phone
<davmor2> popey: you see how you don't think these things through properly ;)
<popey> well, my DSLR has zoom
<davmor2> popey: pinch to zoom on the phone :P
 * diddledan pinches davmor2 
<dwatkins> the pinch zoom on phone cameras tends to just crop out the surrounding image
<dwatkins> you're better off fixing it in posty
<dwatkins> post, even
<popey> indeed
<czajkowski> popey: which one do we normally go on http://www.realaletrail.net/
<popey> http://www.watercressline.co.uk/product.php/10/real-ale-train-r-a-t
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> that looks more familar
<czajkowski> thank you
<popey> np
<czajkowski> wow many are already sold out
<czajkowski> that puts a pin in that bday present
<MooDoo> czajkowski: do you need one?
<mapps> hm
<diddledan> morigan mapps
<mapps> so finally got my fibre ordered..only taken 5 weeks and 5 calls
<mapps> but
<mapps> no idea when it's being activated ..he told me 'within 5 days' but 3 other opeatos told me 2-3 weeks on diff calls
<mapps> he said they'd keep me updated..yea right!
<mapps> and then insisted i get a new router..i got one 4 weeks ago when i first phoned for fibre
<mapps> argh
<mapps> hey diddledan
<diddledan> he might have put you on openreach fasttrack provision because you've been waiting so long - it costs them more but keeps you happy
<mapps> im on sku
<mapps> sky
<mapps> and another annoyance today
<diddledan> still requires openreach IIRC
<mapps> paid some money into barclays..and planned on transferring to my main HSBC ac later..well i cant
<diddledan> I'm on sky and my modem is an OR modem
<mapps> 'to transfer to a new payee you need a pinsentry device.donnt have one order one now'
<mapps> why when i got the account dont they just send 1?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: well got himself monty python tickets but wnated to do something on the day of his bday
<MooDoo> czajkowski: so you're looking to go on the rat?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: the ubuntu rat that is
<MooDoo> czajkowski: due to me getting a new job, I can't make the rat, so if I can find my ticket lol it's in a secret place, you're more than welcome to it.
<czajkowski> MooDoo: oh what new job
<MooDoo> czajkowski: sys admin for the health store  windows/ubuntu/rhel
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh get you mr fancy pants
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> davmor2: way with words dude
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> there's a lad outside messing with the drain - atm I think he's got fed up and it just whacking it with something heavy
<diddledan> is*
<bigcalm> !rat | czajkowski
<lubotu3`> czajkowski: rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<mapps> morning bigcalm
<mapps> lol diddledan
<bigcalm> o/
<mapps> ugh
<mapps> too tired
<foobarry> i caught a cold without cold symptoms that made me feel super tired and nauseous. a virus
<diddledan> oh god, you're patient zero?!~
<diddledan> pandemic that's decimated the population all because you didn't report sick?!
<diddledan> oh wait, no, that was a movie
<diddledan> ignore me
<foobarry> and my wife had it last week
<foobarry> and my baby before that
<foobarry> baby got steadily more grumpy until one day was super happy
<diddledan> oh dear, is the ubuntu-phone mailing list going to turn into a flamefest tonight?
<Myrtti> oooh, cookies.
<awilkins> Why, has something crashed?
<diddledan> awilkins: worse: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg09001.html
<awilkins> NOT SOMETHING ANNOYING
<diddledan> yeah, he's moaning about the source code comment which includes bible quotes
<diddledan> I'm not entirely sure how it's a "threat to canonical"
<awilkins> Hmm. Well, I don't think the quote adds any information to the header, which makes it redundant (even in the setting of it's original bible app - a grid control has no need of salvation)
<dwatkins> â« this is the house that funk built â«
<awilkins> It's unprofessional in the same vein that comments denigrating users with colourful language are.
<diddledan> aye
<awilkins> If I was taking merge requests I'd probably insist that both kinds of comment be removed
<awilkins> Comments should rest lightly upon the shoulders of self-explanatory code
<dwatkins> Can we quote from the church of the flying spaghetti monster for balance?
<diddledan> dwatkins: most defferably
<awilkins> Anyway, quoting from the Bible is a copyright violation
<diddledan> oh dear, I sound like my daddy
<dwatkins> maybe also from the menu of Frankie & Benny's, just for something a bit different.
<diddledan> who's copyright>?
<dwatkins> whose?
<awilkins> And Bible publishers, believe it or not, are utter demons about that
<diddledan> yeah, them too
<awilkins> Depends on the edition
<dwatkins> someone told me that the most published publication ever was the IKEA catalogue.
<diddledan> so quote from king-james which has no copyright:?
<awilkins> But a lot of the more modern ones have been translated recently and are thus in copyright
<dwatkins> not sure it qualifies, at it changes all the time, then again, there are different editions of the bible.
<awilkins> You might think that they retranslated them just so they could copyright the text again. I couldn't possibly comment.
<awilkins> If for example that's from the NIV, that is definitely in copyright and they are most zealous about pursuing infringers
<dwatkins> really? wow
<awilkins> KJV is obviously fair game
<awilkins> But still irrelevant to the actual source code
<dwatkins> "here, have a lawsuit for posting something your $DIETY said"
<dwatkins> "you're quoting the devil from the old testament? go right ahead"
<awilkins> Religious publishing houses are big business
<diddledan> dwatkins: APIs are copyright too, so $DEITY isn't allowed either
<dwatkins> Today I learned :)
<diddledan> silly oracle vs google
 * awilkins was married to an evangelist for 15 years and knows a thing or two about religious publishing and their copyright habits
<dwatkins> I went out with a catholic once.
<diddledan> lol
<dwatkins> for about 4 years
<diddledan> I saw a church
<dwatkins> it was, however, a long time ago.
<dwatkins> oh, I used to go to church, but only until I was 17.
<diddledan> it had pretty spikes and all sorts
<diddledan> (obviously a CofE church)
<diddledan> I love the architechture of our old c of e churches
<awilkins> I admire the work that went into them
<dwatkins> yeah, I'm going to be singing in a choir which meets in a church soon hopefully, but it'll be secular music, not churchy stuff we'll be singing
<awilkins> I deplore the resources and hard work that could have been used for a grain silo or something else more useful
<dwatkins> there's a chapel near here with an uncertain history, as the records wer largely burned (Roslyn)
<davmor2> diddledan: it's the Cathedrals that never cease to amaze me
<awilkins> Roslyn? Not being a bit Dan Brown, are we?
<awilkins> The religious dudes have their own equivalent of the PRS and everything for hymns.
<awilkins> They have to assidiously record which hymns they sing so as to pay the right royalties
<dwatkins> awilkins: a bit Dan Brown in which sense? I just mean that the tour explains they don't know the meaning of the placement of certain statues etc.
<dwatkins> perhaps they were being a bit Dan Brown, though, yes
<awilkins> Roslyn = Rose Line = to do with the grail legends
<dwatkins> cool, I'd best go see it again and check for evidence of water cups
<dwatkins> anyhoo, it's hometime for me, toodles!
<MissDreamee> Anyone here uses multiple distros?
<diddledan> how is 9:30 am EDT the same as 12:30pm PDT?
<diddledan> surely that's backasswards?
<diddledan> I thought east had sun-up before the specific
<awilkins> That is backwards
<awilkins> It's 0915 PDT and 1215EDT right now
<diddledan> that's what I thunked
<diddledan> amazon can't tell the time then
<MissDreamee> It is backwards
<MissDreamee> I think EDT is UTC -4 and PDT UTC -7
<diddledan> I can't work out when this keynote is/was
<diddledan> it says it's either 930am EDT/ 6:30am PDT OR 930am EDT/1230pm PDT
<diddledan> have I missed it? or is it happening in 10 minutes time?
<diddledan> the link takes me to a page that says "thank you for watching. the video will be uploaded to youtube shortly"
<shauno_> diddledan: go back to sleep?  it'll be "was" when you wake up :)
<diddledan> that sounds like a good idea
<diddledan> sleep is always a good idea
<daftykins> unless you just woke up
<daftykins> then it's very bad
<shauno_> it's usually my only idea when I first wake up :/
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> wake up? NO! Y U NO UNCONSCIOUS
<diddledan> waking up is the worst thing evar
<daftykins> i missed the postie this morning =| he rang at 9am and i got to the door when he was walking away at the end of my road
<daftykins> i have my new electronic cat flap \o/
<diddledan> but have you got an electronic cat?
<daftykins> sure do
<daftykins> or at least, she's meant to have a tag
<davmor2> MissDreamee: I run unity7 and unity8 if that counts :)
<diddledan> davmor2: methinks not
<daftykins> draping her over it after putting the batteries in resulted in more paw flailing than it did success, however
<davmor2> diddledan: shhh they are different :D
<diddledan> daftykins: aww, cute
<diddledan> I like cute kitties
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> also, the hole in the door is bigger than it - so i'm gonna need some ply to cover up the existing =|
<shauno_> I misread that as an oversized cat.  I'm not entirely sure how, in retrospect
<diddledan> GIANT CAT RAMPAGES CIVILISATION
<daftykins> if she were giant i wouldn't have to deal with neighbourhood cats getting in on her territory all the time
<diddledan> awww :-(
<diddledan> that's not fair
<diddledan> how dare they?!
<daftykins> i know!
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ndu6yqwk3igrosz/IMG_20140705_043632.jpg
<daftykins> i caught the little blighter, somehow got in despite having the cat flap as out-only
<ali1234> mummy can we keep it?
<diddledan> yeah, my parent's cat used to be able to bypass that type of restriction - he worked out he could pull at the flap and it opened
<diddledan> this was after weeks of bashing on it
<diddledan> the bashing wasn't to get in/out it was to tell us he was there
<diddledan> even if it was unlocked he'd bash it
<diddledan> I think he realised it made loud noises that brought hooming
<diddledan> s
<diddledan> hoomings**
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4e-qJdEAXo <-- mockingjay lives
<mapps> 8 pound train return
<mapps> or 6 quid single
<mapps> ;]
<diddledan> how do people think that the F word strung together directly behind normal words, a la "f this f-ing you f-er f-ing me when I f-ing work to f-ing pay for your f-ing f-er"
<diddledan> how do they think it makes coherent sentences**
<diddledan> seriously I can't work out what all the yelling is about
<shauno_> are they yelling it at you?
<diddledan> how do they expect 1) anyone including the person they're yelling at to understand, and 2) eaves-droppers to work out who did what to whom?
<diddledan> nah, it's upstairs afaict
<daftykins> i'm not sure they're concerned with diddledan lurking in the bushes with his radio mic ;)
<mapps> gah what is wrong with 3g recently
<mapps> so damn slow
<diddledan> well if they're going to broadcast it to the entire street they might as well make it obvious what's going on, no?
<daftykins> XD
<mapps> the pings like 8000ms according to speedtest.net app
<shauno_> I wonder why people never question Snopes.
<mapps> even on 4g im only getting say 12mbit
<mapps> 10936ms
<mapps> absolute joke
<diddledan> mapps: maybe the network is overloaded there?
<mapps> yet download shows as 2.45mbit
<mapps> oh no
<mapps> download 0.2 upload 2.4
<mapps> so loading a web page is painful
<mapps> yea its been happening for the past few weeks
<shauno_> whippersnappers!  in my day you had to go to manchester uni to get 12mbit :/
<mapps> as MartijnVdS said 3g and 4g are diff networks so i guess 3g is congested ..and when i use 4g not as many people on there
<ali1234> shauno_: because snopes links to references
<diddledan> I'd expect them to be the same network just different spectrum
<mapps> hmm
<MartijnVdS> it all depends on:
<MartijnVdS> * congestion of the network
<MartijnVdS> * signal strength (both ways! send *and* receive)
<MartijnVdS> * your operator's settings
<mapps> 3g used to be ok
<MartijnVdS> * frequency used (800MHz vs 2.4GHz)
<ali1234> they are all different networks. for example three has no 2g network and they rent it off someone else. that's why they won't allow you to use a 2.5g-only phone
<MartijnVdS> uh 2.6
<mapps> done todays tv watching
<mapps> suits/graceland/murder in the first
<mapps> ;]
<shauno_> ali1234: that doesn't really answer my question, since they invent sources
<shauno_> my favourite is http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/spiders.asp
<shauno_> originally they just cited Ms Holst in a magazine that didn't exist.  now they've added a quote from Scientific American, which is completely contradictory (spiders avoid humans because they vibrate, and end quote with "found on on his face")
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> is it possible to make my wireless come on before a reboot?
<mapps> so if i rebooted remotely my box comes back online
<daftykins> wat
<mapps> well
<mapps> my wireless doesnt connect until i login
<mapps> on my xubuntu machine
<daftykins> enable auto login? :)
<mapps> ah
<mapps> could do that yea
<daftykins> or you could ditch network manager and hardcode your connection setup
<daftykins> but given all the funky stuff you play with that sounds like a bad move
<ali1234> one time a spider walked on my face while i was sleeping
<ali1234> so it must be true
<mapps> :D
<shauno_> oh I'm not saying it's true.  just having their source claim spiders actively avoid sleeping humans, and walk on their faces, is completely contradictory
<ali1234> blame the sources
<ali1234> note that the pc professional article isn't actually in the citation section
<shauno_> sure it is, 4th of the 5
<ali1234> oh yeah
<ali1234> how can they give a page number?
<ali1234> lol
<mapps> hmm cant find the charger i wanted now
<mapps> rats
<diddledan> probably because the magazine had a number of pages and it appeared on a page that-many down the stack?
<mapps> wanted to get some portable phone charger for when i go away small thing fits in your pocket
<diddledan> mapps: rats? where?!
<shauno_> diddledan, that's the bit that has me interested.  no-one can find any trace of this magazine existing
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> shauno_: oh
<diddledan> shauno_: PCPro existed
<diddledan> shauno_: I assumed that was an evolution of PC Professional
<ali1234> but didn't have any such article
<ali1234> i think snopes did it just to wind people up
<shauno_> pc pro has never been called pc professional, and launched in nov 94
<foobarry> http://ask.metafilter.com/146671/Paging-Lisa-Birgit-Holst
<foobarry> seems everything about that page is false
<foobarry> whterh deliberate or not, is anyones guess
<diddledan> I like the razor that suggests to never put down to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence
<shauno_> oh I haven't claimed any malice either.  I just find it interesting because they are somewhat sacrosant
<foobarry> cannot be incompetence
<foobarry> so either intended to be fake article, or an attempt to be an authority on matters under false pretence
<shauno_> the same way we tell people not to use wikipedia as a primary source (yet go there first for everything)
<mapps> gah what the hell
<mapps> IPv6 connections work, but connections using DNS names do not use IPv6. For some reason, your browser or your OS is not doing IPv6 DNS 'AAAA' lookups.
<diddledan> first? surely you mean "solely"
<mapps> yet i can ping -6 ipv6.google.com ?!
<foobarry> mapps: what is your dns sever
<diddledan> mapps: if you can ping a dns name then that means aaaa resolving works
<mapps> hmm
<shauno_> it may work selectively though?  I know google were doing that the other way around for a while
<diddledan> yeah it depends on your upstream dns provider I guess
<mapps> dns is the router ip it says
<diddledan> I tend to rely on 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
<shauno_> you may also run across broken configurations.  eg, for a long time apple treated v4 vs v6 as a race.  whichever answered first was taken as the only reply
<diddledan> >.<
<mapps> its just put ipv6 in [] right?
<mapps> to access in abrowser
<foobarry> which browser
<shauno_> so you'd get a v6 address for ipv6.google because it only has an AAAA answer, but a v4 address for google.com because it has both, and the A is more likely to be cached
<mapps> chrome
<foobarry> have u enabled it in chrome:?
<diddledan> foobarry: you shouldn't need to?
<mapps> didnt think i needed to
<mapps> it was working before
<shauno_> I think Chrome uses this behaviour too; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Eyeballs
<mapps> i was pushing 2 IPV6 dns in radvd too
<mapps> RDNSS 2001:4860:4860::8888 2001:4860:4860::8844 {
<foobarry> chrome://net-internals/#dns
<mapps> ive got an ipv6 address
<mapps> just cant lookup
<mapps> not sure what to do this was all working the other day
<foobarry> try a ipv6 dns server?
<diddledan> can you ping -6 2001:470:1f08:b73::1?
<diddledan> that's my tunnel endpoint
<mapps> so i just disconnected reconnected and now i can reach ip6 addresses in my browser
<diddledan> yey
<mapps> could it be because i turned my linux box off earlier? that dishes out ip6 using radvd
<foobarry> i was gonna suggest turn off hae a lie down and then try again
<mapps> but the laptop alredy had an ipv6 so surely not?
<mapps> it wouldnt affect it wod it?
<mapps> *would
<foobarry> :S
<diddledan> not if your linux box stayed on the same ipv6 address it woudln't
<foobarry> time for washing up
<shauno_> why's the linux box running radvd?
<diddledan> becasue that's where his tunnel terminates
<shauno_> well that's what I'm wondering.  because if he turned off the box that handles the tunnel ..
<diddledan> yeah, without the tunnel then ipv6 won't work at all
<diddledan> so we all know LAMP - the A being Apache, so what's LEMP?
<diddledan> seems the E is for _N_ginx
<diddledan> that's so obvious... -_-
<shauno_> right:)  because nginx is pronounced engine-x, and lnmp is impossible for even the welsh to pronounce
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> what about if you were using lighttpd?
<diddledan> llmp?
<MooDoo> LLMP ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<shauno_> I'm fairly sure the welsh can pronounce that
<diddledan> the welsh would have a good go at that one
<shauno_> "clump" or similar
<diddledan> no, llmp
<diddledan> <-- reads welsh
<diddledan> <-- doesn't understand it
<shauno_> carefuly - with that surname, people might believe you
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> ok, let's replace Mysql with Redis: LARP
<diddledan> and LERP
<diddledan> and LLRP
<shauno_> and obviously, dragonbsd  (or darwin for the sadists)
<diddledan> hehe
<diddledan> DERP
<diddledan> !!
<diddledan> is darwin installable again yet? or did the new effort stop just after it started
<diddledan> http://www.puredarwin.org/
<diddledan> still "now open"
<diddledan> yey for last news
<diddledan> 15/12/12
<diddledan> that's 2012
<diddledan> 2.5 years ago
<diddledan> methinks the "new" effort didn't get out of the "new" phase
<shauno_> there's a good reason.  it's really not worth the effort
<shauno_> we already have hurd for people who despise themselves.
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> that's GNU/Hurd to you
<diddledan> because we all need more guh's
<diddledan> as in g-noo NOT new
<shauno_> it really encompasses all the bits you didn't like about OSX, with none of the good sides.  it also features enough missing drivers that it supports less hardware than OSX
<shauno_> but on the plus side, it's build system will give you a whole new appreciation for single malt scotches
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqgPyqyh4X4
<shauno_> (as far as I can tell, darwinbuild is a version-control system that didn't know what it wanted to be when it grew up)
<shauno_> oh, it also features build numbers that they don't publish, and it won't build without specifying one.  so you have to invent one, and when it fails, start grepping the build tree to find the list it's matching against
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> sounds lovely
<daftykins> whoops lost him
<diddledan> hmm, what happened there then?
<diddledan> textual done disappeared on me
<daftykins> remote host closed
<daftykins> you dun quit!
<diddledan> I dun goofd?
<daftykins> mayhaps
<Azelphur> Is there any way to run a specific application with a different gtk theme?
<Azelphur> Eclipse really does not like my GTK theme.
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> yes but you won't like it
<daftykins> uh oh
<Azelphur> ali1234: how do I do it?
<ali1234> is it gtk2 or gtk3?
<Azelphur> I think 2
<daftykins> Thunderbirds ftw
<Azelphur> ali1234: ?
<ali1234> GTK2_RC_FILES=/usr/share/themes/<theme>/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/144968/set-variable-in-desktop-file
<Azelphur> ali1234: amusingly I tried that one, it had no effect
<ali1234> eclipse is probably gtk3 now
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> happen to know the GTK3 environment variable?
<ali1234> there isn't one
<Azelphur> that's useful
<ali1234> to do this on gtk3 you have to run multiple copies of gnome-settings-daemon (and therefore multiple dbus sessions)
<ali1234> yeah, that's gnome for you
<ali1234> i told you you wouldn't like it
<Azelphur> \o/
<ali1234> wat theme is it?
<ali1234> if it's one of shimmer themes you should report a bug and we will fix it to work with eclipse
<ali1234> the up side of gtk themes is they use all css, so you can make rules that apply to specific applications to fix things like this
<popey> ali1234: does xfce use vino by default?
<ali1234> what is vino?
<popey> vnc server
<ali1234> oh. do you mean xubuntu?
<ali1234> because xfce doesn't have defaults
<ali1234> it's not installed here, and i didn't uninstall it...
<popey> oh sorry, yes
<ali1234> vnc is terrible anyway. use xhosting
<mapps> cant decide what portable charger to get..have to get one though..5s dies too quickly ;(
<Azelphur> ali1234: nah, it's some third party theme I grabbed from gnome-look
<ali1234> yeah those are almost always terrible
<ali1234> you could try hacking the css to fix it yourself
<ali1234> ah... eclipse is java right?
<popey> mapps: i got an anker 13000mAh
<Azelphur> I have one of the EasyAcc 12000mAh, they are cool
<mapps> i was looking at ; http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultra-Compact-Lipstick-Sized-Technology-Smartphones-Adapters-/dp/B00F4SDOVU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405026195&sr=8-1&keywords=iphone+5s+portable+charger
<mapps> not in pink :P
<mapps> and also http://www.amazon.co.uk/EasyAccÂ®-10000mAh-Brilliant-Smartphone-Bluetooth/dp/B00H9BEC8E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1405026195&sr=8-2&keywords=iphone+5s+portable+charger but only 10000
<mapps> didnt see the anker 13000 or easyac 12000 ?
<mapps> are they small enough to fit in your pocket?
<popey> the one I have is a bit bulky
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/13000mAh-Portable-External-smartphones-lightning-Black/dp/B00BQ5KHJW
<popey> battery lasts ages
<mapps> im getting it mainly for when i go on holiday / to the football / racing phones guaranteed to die
<mapps> but want to be able to fit it in my pocket..else im sure il put it down and forget it!
<popey> the flat thin ones fit nicely in a pocket
<popey> i have one on my wishlist to buy for wifey's handbag
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00J7FDB5U/
<popey> that one, but in white, decent mAh
<popey> but flat, so fit nicely in a coat or jeans back pocket
<mapps> 8000mAH enough?
<popey> enough to get you out of a sticky situation
<Azelphur> mapps: my 12000 is the type you could keep in your coat pocket reasonably easy
<Azelphur> but you wouldn't be fitting it in your trouser/jeans pocket
<daftykins> XD
<mapps> ah
<mapps> the lipstick size one is kinda tempting
<mapps> says it adds 9hours charge
<popey> just bought the pink one for wifey
<Azelphur> mapps: maybe on an old Nokia, not on a smartphone.
<Azelphur> my 12000 generally does 2-3 charges of mine
<mapps> really?
<mapps> what the hell
<mapps> Add more than a full charge or 9 hours of additional talk time to your iPhone 5 / 4 / 4S / 3G / 3GS. On most other phones, benefit from 1 full charge or 90+ hours of audio playback.
<mapps> see
<mapps> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultra-Compact-Lipstick-Sized-Technology-Smartphones-Adapters-/dp/B00F4SDOVU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405026195&sr=8-1&keywords=iphone+5s+portable+charger
<mapps> so lies
<mapps> figured it wouldnt be as good as it sounds
<daftykins> consider that your device is probably rocking a 2500+ mAh battery
<mapps> http://www.amazon.co.uk/EasyAccÂ®-10000mAh-Brilliant-Smartphone-Bluetooth/dp/B00H9BEC8E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1405026195&sr=8-2&keywords=iphone+5s+portable+charger
<mapps> that claims 5-6 charges!!
<Myrtti> oohh. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/encompass/asmo-charger-the-worlds-first-truly-intelligent-ch
<Azelphur> mapps: the Nexus 5 has a 2300mAh battery, so 10,000 divided by 2300 is 4.34, and that's if you have a magical zero loss system.
<popey> power up 3 ships next week!
<popey> cant wait
<mapps> so those claims are garbage basically?
<popey> mapps: dunno, i dont own that battery
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-11
<diddledan> lol, vampire academy looks funny
<diddledan> movie**
<diddledan> gets a rotten tomatos score of 10% which means I'm bound to enjoy it
<diddledan> https://play.google.com/store/movies/details/why_is_this_here_and_why_are_you_reading_random_variables?id=PixzIt3Dg7w
<mapps> hey all
<Guest57387> morning
<mapps> morning guest;p
<mapps> aka MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> no Idea what happened there
<mapps> :)
<Myrtti> aw man, I just realised that on the day that I'd get to enjoy my home delivered newspaper for the first time, we're off to Cambridge :-|
<foobarry> printed? wow
<Myrtti> yeah, I like having a big pot of tea, toast and newspaper
<Myrtti> besides I made a promise that when I move to UK I'll order Guardian delivered. So I did. Albeit only the weekend issues.
<foobarry> i used to enjoy sunday papers reading after lunch
<foobarry> then i had kids and if i get 1/2 hr to myself, i climb under the duvet for a snooze
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy World Population Day! :-D
<foobarry> after popey's anger was aroused regarding solar panel benches..i bring you https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryangrepper/coolest-cooler-21st-century-cooler-thats-actually
<foobarry> yay got my monthly reward from samsung for telling them my opinion about their ideas \o/
<popey> haha, thats brilliant!
<dwatkins> what did I miss about solar powered benches?
<awilkins> I think their Mah mean mAh
<awilkins> I'd be seriously impressed if they fit mega-amp-hour batteries into that thing
<awilkins> Would buy one just to power an electric car.... 18V 3000MAh battery would do what, about 10,000 miles or something stupid?
<dwatkins> yeah, the battery capacity was my first concern, especially as it runs a blender
<dwatkins> you can charge it up via the solar panel, but not quickly enough to compensate for all the things you might want to use it for in a day
<foobarry> needs a crank on the side
<dwatkins> good call, foobarry
<popey> can you plug it into the car? to charge on your journey?
<foobarry> it smacks a bit of rich americans who need such a thing though
<foobarry> $299 on a cool box
<popey> i guess if you go out at the weekend with your friends and family a lot
<popey> its the price of a mobile phone
<Laney> Myrtti: how do you get it delivered?
<Laney> I looked into it a little while ago and only found discounted vouchers
<popey> Laney: local newsagent?
<Myrtti> took the vouchers to the newsagent and paud them for delivery
<Laney> maybe, that's what I asked.
 * popey used to be a paper boy, and would sometimes deliver to the road I now live in
<foobarry> i guess i'm thinking about how much we see the sun. my bbq hasn't seen light of day in a couple of years
<Laney> wonder if the one down the road does that
<Myrtti> likely yes
<Laney> it's some spar-like (not spar) chain so not sure
<foobarry> foospar
<popey> I've had the BBQ out 3 times this year so far
<popey> and I'm going to a local LUG BBQ on saturday, although it looks like rain
<popey> Fauxspar
<Laney> the yellow and purple one
<shauno_> I have fond memories of running the BBQ in the rain, in the garage with the door up
<popey> hehe, yeah â»
<Myrtti> this is a bit odd aystem in comparison to Finland
<popey> I have a photo somewhere of me standing over a bbq with an umbrella
<Myrtti> you pay the newspaper and the papers magically appear
<shauno_> to quote Magnus, "I've started, so I'll finish"
<popey> ooh, my firefox flame has cleared customs
<popey> ooh, 3 ww2 dakotas just flew past
<foobarry> anyone know of a good FOSS document management system?
<foobarry> envy @ popey
<foobarry> about planes
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: AlanBell might be able to help you with that one
<popey> vulcan xh558 is arriving later, dunno when
<foobarry> vulcan are awesome
<foobarry> and massive
<MartijnVdS> popey: give it the vulcan salute
<popey> heh
<shauno_> the standard salute for the Vulcan is to stand, jaw dropped, while wondering how we ever managed to make death so pretty
<popey> hehe
<foobarry> the vulcan in the falklands war bombed a runway then came home :)
<diplo>  foobarry : The Alans use alfresco.com as far as I know
<foobarry> a DOS attack
<bashrc> denial of runway
<popey> just got a text "FYI... I hear the Vulcan is leaving RAF Waddington for Farnborough at 11:15
<popey> \o/
<Myrtti> http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Phones/Feel_At_Home?intid=3mainfahrbn1501
<Myrtti> WOHEY!
<Myrtti> Three is ditching roaming charges for more countries, including Finland
<MartijnVdS> hmmm
<MartijnVdS> Would I be able to buy a Three SIM and then use it to roam *all the time* for free? :)
<shauno_> I've been tempted to try that with a slovak sim.  I found a friend's roaming charges here, are less than my standing contract
<MartijnVdS> oh... Feel At Home is designed for UK residents who are on holiday or business trips abroad, not for extended periods abroad.
<popey> keep thinking about roaming for holiday then remember I'm going to the Isle of Wight
<MartijnVdS> I'm going to France and Jersey. I was hoping "alternative roaming provider" deals would start showing up now the new rules are in place..
<shauno_> went there a couple of years ago.  proper weird.  not sure I'll go again
<MartijnVdS> or maybe better roaming deals.. but they only got worse
<MartijnVdS> shauno_: where? France?
<shauno_> the isle of wight
<shauno_> used to go there a *lot* when we were kids, me ma's family's from there.  went back a couple of years ago with none left and it was proper weird
<shauno_> especially with stuff like blackgang chine going over the cliff, not even the tourist attractions are where you left them
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> heh
<popey> we're staying in a fort
<dwatkins> a pillow or wooden fort?
<MartijnVdS> blanket fort?
<popey> http://www.bluechipholidays.co.uk/isle-of-wight/freshwater/the-sergeants-quarters-golden-hill-fort?s_pos=3
<dwatkins> I can't believe I'm wishing it wasn't sunny so I can go for a run at lunchtime without getting too hot.
<diplo> dwatkins, if it's too sunny.. PUB!
<diplo> :)
<shauno_> dwatkins: trade you?  we've got perma-drizzle
<dwatkins> pub? wish I could, but it's going to be a busy day
<foobarry> whatever happened to the raspi ubuntu builds?
<dwatkins> paging AlanBell
<foobarry> did he nail them on a big piece of plywood
<foobarry> like my dad did with my hornby rail set
<diddledan> PUB?!
 * awilkins will probably hit the rowing machine... oh, around now
<foobarry> more like the sewing machine
<foobarry> :P
<popey> vulcan just went right over our house â»
<foobarry> :'(
<foobarry> i'm going to clacton air shwo this year to see 2 lancasters
<davmor2> popey: Is it a bird, is it a plane, no it's super spock
<MartijnVdS> popey: live long & prosper!
<popey> :D
<foobarry> where's the cheapest place to buy a synology? ebuyer/amazon?
<davmor2> foobarry: you have a webbrowser look
<foobarry> doesn''t seem to work at telling me who'se cheapest, only who google thinks
<foobarry> google shopping doesn't index everyone
<foobarry> now i've forgotten which one i was gonna buy
<davmor2> no foobarry you go to the one site and find the cheapest you then go to the other site and find the cheapest, You can even open it in 2 tabs and flick between the two to ensure they are the same :P
<davmor2> foobarry: synology
<foobarry> dear google, is there a cheaper place than amazon or ebuyer
<foobarry> woops wrong window;
<Myrtti> invisible hand
<Myrtti> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/invisiblehand/
<Myrtti> http://www.getinvisiblehand.com/
<foobarry> now synology are tricking me with model numbers 213j and 214se which is not the same as 214
<MartijnVdS> 2 = 2-bay
<MartijnVdS> 13/14 = year of introduction of model
<MartijnVdS> the letters indicate special bits ("j" tends to be cheaper/slower CPU for instance)
<diddledan> I think that's unfair using an extra symbol (the j) to mean you get less
<diddledan> "here, have more symbols meaning you get less" more or less.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 80386... SX
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> I need feeding
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: make me a sammich?
<MartijnVdS> no
<diddledan> sudo make me a sammich
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: user not in sudoers
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> I forgot the root password, too
<diddledan> so I can't use su -c make me a sammich
<foobarry> the 214 > 213j but is it > 214se
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: wikipedia has specs tables
<diddledan> se = special edition?
<foobarry> slow edition
<diddledan> secrit episode?
<diddledan> silent erosion?
<foobarry> http://www.synology.com/en-global/products/compare_products/DS214se/DS214+/DS214/DS213j
<foobarry> single core edition
<diddledan> teeny memory
<MartijnVdS> I have a 413
<MartijnVdS> it's awesom
<foobarry> 214se maybe ok if i'm not streaming video
<foobarry> but 213j is better perf
<foobarry> this is why millions of people used to let steve jobs make their decisions for them
<popey> holy crap that vulcan is loud
<foobarry> oh great. all the ladies are taking tests "how awesome is your husband"
<diddledan> foobarry: facebook?
<foobarry> yeah
<davmor2> popey: Well if you will watch StarTrek while at work on full volume it will be loud ;)
<foobarry> which one of you uses o365, is it diddledan ?
<awilkins> Is it Spock yelling "Khaaaaaan!" in Star Trek : Reboot 2 ?
<popey> WHOOOOOOSH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3iDnVFn_vo
<davmor2> popey: not so much whoosh as ROOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRR!
<popey> it was louder when it was a few feet over and went directly over the house
<popey> scared the bejeezus out of us
<davmor2> hahaha
<diddledan> http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/selfies-are-ruining-the-tour-de-france.html
<popey> s/selfies/stupid people/
 * xnox is having ratatouille for lunch *nom* *nom*
<popey> nom indeed!
<Myrtti> what
<Myrtti> Boots sells kitchen appliances?
<Myrtti> mind = blown
<davmor2> Myrtti: so does ikea
<Myrtti> that I knew
<Myrtti> and it somewhat makes sense
<Myrtti> Boots baffles me
<foobarry> it was always in the upstairs section with the camera shop
<foobarry> and toys
<davmor2> Myrtti: it's owned by Wallgreens
<davmor2> Myrtti: they sell everything under the sun in the US
<davmor2> infact they would sell you the sun if they could hold it long enough to get it in the shop :D
<Ubuntu_User> is this a help channel?
<davmor2> Ubuntu_User: not officially but we help where we can, the official help channel is #ubuntu
<Ubuntu_User> ok thanks
<Ubuntu_User> how do i join that channel?
<diddledan> type /join #ubuntu
<diddledan> with the /
<Ubuntu_User> thanks
<foobarry> Ubuntu_User: but we are helpful too
<Ubuntu_User> errrm ive installed ubuntu 14.04 LTS all fine except i cant boot into it as it doesn't show on the os selection screen, I dual boot with win 7 and two older versions for ubuntu
<Ubuntu_User> can anyone help?
<mapps> with what
<mapps> if you specify then everyone here idling can read it and see if they can help!
<diddledan> mapps: he did :-p
<mapps> oh
<mapps> i didn't see
<mapps> all i see ishim asking if this is a help channel
<diddledan> :-p
<foobarry> Ubuntu_User: do you get the grub loader screen?
<diddledan> methinks there's more than one grub in play
<foobarry> it's possible that you didn't install onto the mbr when installing 14.04
<foobarry> perhaps running grub2-install /dev/sda on the older ubuntu would work? can another person back me up on that?
<Ubuntu_User> i just flowwowed the install instructions whhen i booted the usd versinion from my usb
<Ubuntu_User> i created a bootable usb to install it from
<Ubuntu_User> i dont know if this issue has anyhting to do with ubuntu
<foobarry> re-running the grub install from an existing ubuntu might do it, i've also used a package called boot-repair from within ubuntu too
<Ubuntu_User> what is the grub install?
<mapps> boot loader
<Ubuntu_User> what is the command
<foobarry> grub2-install /dev/sda (if your disk is /dev/sda)
<foobarry> as root
<foobarry> (use at your own risk)
<foobarry> but it should detect OS on the machine and write a grub for you
<Ubuntu_User> thanks
<foobarry> quick straw poll...does anyone have a drink/ice dispenser on their fridge?
<popey> yes
<popey> a drawer inside the freezer in which ice magically appears
<foobarry> a front mounted dispenser thing?
<popey> no
<foobarry> do many people have these? are they an american thing
<popey> http://www.miele.co.uk/fridge-freezers/KFN37452-iDE-275/
<popey> like that
<popey> the thing i like about that one is I can switch it off
<popey> so in the winter when I'm less likely to want ice, I turn it off and gain a little space in teh freezer
<popey> but if I'm having a party at the weekend, I'll turn it on again
<nigelb> 23
<popey> kids like having slush puppies too in the summer
<popey> 42
<nigelb> gah. Ctrl and Fn keys switching is HELL.
<popey> WORST. THING. EVER.
<nigelb>  yup.
<diddledan> does anyone know whether screen can be started by a boot-script and then immediately detached after starting a child program?
<Myrtti> yes, it can
<Myrtti> although I'm doing the same with tmux
<Myrtti> but doing a crontab entry with @reboot tmux -u new-session -d -s irssi 'irssi' works for me
<Myrtti> I'm sure there's more elegant ways but this works for me
<Myrtti> atleast most of the time
<diddledan> Myrtti: that's exactly the same reason I want to run it at reboot :-p
<diddledan> irssi ftw
<diddledan> hmm, dilemmas - do I build a new site to IE9+ knowing deep down that they're likely to want to view it in IE8?
<diddledan> seriously who in their right mind actually uses IE8?!
<diddledan> besides clients
<diddledan> I want to start doing things using http://www.polymer-project.org/
<diddledan> but it's really IE10+ with some 9 support
<diddledan> specifically I want the ability to compartmentalise the page/site
<Gargoyle> What effect does resetting sysctl (sudo sysctl -p) have on a running system? Is it safe to do anytime?
<mapps> hmm
<diddledan> Gargoyle: that command won't "reset" the entire tree, it will only set the properties to whatever is in /etc/sysctl.conf
<Gargoyle> diddledan, so I'm following this post http://scie.nti.st/2008/3/14/amazon-s3-and-connection-reset-by-peer/
<diddledan> so if you manually set something which isn't mentioned in the sysctl.conf then that will remain set
<daftykins> hello all
<daftykins> i can officially recommend the BitFenix Comrade as a very nice budget case - Â£25!
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5c535s9knaxtrjn/AAC5wT3RKy-ip5zE6HbXOxQ8a
<diddledan> in soviet russia, fenix bit you
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> also, i just benchmarked a 32GB Team Group USB 3.0 flash drive which cost Â£14.99
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u4oe2bkpy8m3ls0/teamgroup32GB.png
<diddledan> does that tower-heat-sink actually fit?
<daftykins> yes :D
<daftykins> by the skin of its' teeth
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> it certainly looks tight
<daftykins> that's my main clients old Core 2 Quad setup which had some of the onboard USB get fried in a lightning strike
<daftykins> the whole setup works, but i had to get a PCI USB controller card to make it workable with modern peripherals
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/flu2rbdiaxyk5hi/IMG_20140709_160758.jpg
<daftykins> i've been using it like this for a veeeeery long time
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> i turn it on by bridging the IO pins with the rear panel IO shield XD
<diddledan> >.<
<daftykins> but now, no longer! luxury has been attained!
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> only 4GB RAM, also the PSU is mine
<diddledan> :-D
<daftykins> so i've decided i'm commandeering the whole lot ;)
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> 120GB OCZ Vertex 2 SSD as well
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> bit of a shame i had to route the ATX 12V+ up under the cards
<daftykins> i actually had to remove all the motherboard screws again just to plug that one in >_<
<diddledan> motherboard screws, or rather those standoffs they screw into are the bane of my existence
<daftykins> but yes, that machine is actually a graphics card away from being a gaming box i'd say
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> do you have some loose ones that spin infinitely underneath the board?
<diddledan> I almost always get at least one cross-threaded meaning that unscrewing it actually unscrews the standoff rather than the screw
<diddledan> yeah, I have those too
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> back in Athlon XP time, i had a huge Alpha PAL8045 heatsink that used to do that with its' bolts... BEHIND the motherboard >_<
<daftykins> "right, whole board out"
<diddledan> I've got several old boards lying around with one or more screw+standoff combos still attached because they were so meshed
<daftykins> i actually got a tad confused with this machine, as it had just 3 standoffs in the screw set
<daftykins> WAT you could hear me saying from down the road
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> what?
<diddledan> now you got me confuddled
<daftykins> but all the mounts were actually... risen metal, if you catch me
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> nice
<diddledan> that's a better way of doing cricket
<daftykins> only if you have the exact layout mobo to use them of course :)
<diddledan> true
<daftykins> which thankfully this was, all 9 matched
<mapps> dunno why festivals dont just let everyone do legal highs
<mapps> they wanna do it..who cares
<daftykins> in fact that build i did the other day, had the classic board-goes-wider situation :(
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jazd5jjtubq7w2k/IMG-20140702-WA0009.jpg
<daftykins> so i had to plug in SATA whilst holding it to prevent splitting
<daftykins> well, legal highs are actually mentally incapacitating kids and killing others
<daftykins> so... i'd say that's a good enough reason not to permit them :)
<mapps> its legal tho
<mapps> smoking kills but its legal
<daftykins> they're banned over here due to the above
<daftykins> hey guys did you hear what happened in the Channel Islands earlier today!?
<diddledan> nupe?
<diddledan> not had the n00se on
<daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-28266736
<daftykins> EARTHQUAKE!
<mapps> woah
<mapps> i wanna say cool in a way heh
<diddledan> holy bajeepers
<Gargoyle> I'm getting "error: permission denied on key 'net.ipv4.tcp_wmem'" when trying "sysctl -p", google is not helping much and root has rw on /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_wmem and tcp_rmem
<diddledan> that's a biiiig squiggle
<mapps> i wouldnt bother doing them anyway..why would i..ive heard the side affects can be awful..and as u say deaths etc at least with ecstacy you know what to expect
<diddledan> Gargoyle: run it with sudo
<mapps> Gargoyle sudo in front of cmd
<daftykins> i nipped out for 2 mins to buy lunch from a shop around the corner, got back to the clients place to find them all finding out what exploded and describing the house shook
<Gargoyle> I am running it as root
<mapps> oh
<diddledan> mapps: ecstasy usually involves a certain amount of rat poison
<diddledan> yey for dealers "making it go further"
<mapps> well if itdoesnt i mean;p
<Gargoyle> Is it valid for me to try and echo the values into the file?
<diddledan> Gargoyle: how do you mean?
<daftykins> that's how /proc modifications usually are done, yes
<Gargoyle> diddledan: echo 4096 16384 512000 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_wmem
<diddledan> aah, I see
<Gargoyle> :(
<Gargoyle> permission denied
<diddledan> try `sysctl net.ipv4.tcp_wmem="4096 16384 512000"`
<Gargoyle> permission denied on key... (this is 11.04 on kern 2.6.32 BTW)
<diddledan> in that case I'd recommend upgrading to a more recent edition of ubuntu (one that's still supported) and trying again
<Gargoyle> diddledan: Yeah. tell me about it.
<diddledan> 11.04 is 3.25 years old now
<diddledan> we've had two LTS editions since then
<Gargoyle> However in the real-world, we sometime have to make old shit work while we prep the new systems.
<daftykins> hang on you're futzing with something EOL?
<daftykins> now, i speak as a masochist myself... but why would you do that? :)
<Gargoyle> Currently my task list is: 1.) fix db backups. 2.) Roll-out new servers. In that order.
<Gargoyle> Although, the same command seems to have successfully uploaded stuff yesterday. :(
<daftykins> i guess you only know once you restore and test
<Gargoyle> ah ha. Seems its a bug in s3cmd...
<popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2af247/gnulinux_survey_to_find_overlap_between_distros/ "interesting" survey
<ali1234> popey: was it you that downvoted every arch post?
<popey> haha, no
<popey> didnt notice the voting
<ali1234> i m going to downvote everyone who said the use gnome because lolz
<daftykins> and this is why i don't touch reddit
<popey> wow, i can think of better reasons not to use reddit
<popey> i thought you could see who up/downvoted stuff
<ali1234> no
<daftykins> popey: i was more going for that pesky people have pesky opinions! :D
<popey> oh
<ali1234> there, finished
<daftykins> troll status increased
<ali1234> is anyone here a C++ expert?
<diddledan> isn;t the whole point of C++ that nobody is an expert?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> if i say to you "placement new" and you know what that is, i'd consider you an expert
<diddledan> i.e. it's so complicated noone can rightfully say they know anything about it
<ali1234> so if i allocate some memory with ::operator new, how am i supposed to deallocate it?
<diddledan> doesn't it deallocate once out of scope? o_O
<ali1234> can't be "just call free on it" and delete doesn't make sense either
<ali1234> no, this is C++ not C#
<ali1234> i would ask in ##C++ but they'll demand to know my life story before helping me
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yeah, thems clever folk *tut*
<daftykins> at least you didn't say they'd assume you're doing Uni homework
<daftykins> that's always the coding channel classic
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> I usually assume the same when I see coding questions on linkedin
<diddledan> like "when should I use $this in php"
<diddledan> seriously, there are questions as inane as that
<daftykins> that's beyond me, i don't do code
<diddledan> if you did you'd probably appreciate that it's standard fare following the same principles in other languages
<daftykins> i'd hope so.
<daftykins> i fudged my way through Java at Uni but i did so by just looking and hacking rather than truly learning
<diddledan> it's an Object-Oriented thing - outside the "object" you refer to it by it's name, but inside you refer to itself as "$this"
<daftykins> oic
<diddledan> it's kinda like you refer to yourself as me or I
<diddledan> $this is the same
<daftykins> why's that better than referring by name all the time?
<diddledan> scope. inside the object it has no idea what you called it
<daftykins> ah
<diddledan> objects have two identifiers, see. the first is the "type" of object (apple) and the second is the instance name (fred)
<diddledan> so you can have many apples all with different names
<diddledan> but they all back onto the same code so the code doesn't know which apple it is
<SuperEngineer> Anyone able to helpme recover ubuntu restoredpartion?
<SuperEngineer> Had to restore from backup - grub reinstalled but U14.04 not in list
<diddledan_> arr, thems be partions of chips, eh?
<SuperEngineer> on doing an update grub - where ubuntu should appear in list is "no volume groups found"
<diddledan_> :-p
<SuperEngineer> m/me thinks he his in a reinstal from scratch :(
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: partittions!  :D
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> I was being yokel
<SuperEngineer> ooo arrr
<diddledan_> what's the difference between a city fire engine and a country fire engine?
<SuperEngineer> two horses
<SuperEngineer> ...but this ain't gettin me booted into ubuntu
<diddledan_> nah, a city engine goes NEENAANEENAANEENAA whereas a country one goes "oo arr... oo arr... oo arr.."
<SuperEngineer> ...but this ain't gettin me booted into ubuntu
<diddledan_> I was deflecting the question because I don't know
<SuperEngineer> [guessed]
<diddledan_> hopefully someone else can help
<SuperEngineer> "no volume groups found" - is the3re a way around this to save a reinstall?
<diddledan_> did you install onto LVM?
<SuperEngineer> nope
<diddledan_> hmm, 'cos that's what it's moaning it can't find
<diddledan_> grub has got scary
<diddledan_> I used to be able to work 1.x blindfold but 2.x is a mystery to me
<SuperEngineer> it was - & is again - on normal primary partition sda2 [with home partition on extended partition]
<SuperEngineer> this *should have been safe*  :D
<diddledan_> is /dev and /proc and /sys mounted?
<diddledan_> grub-update requires those to figure out what's where
<diddledan_> I'm assuming you're in the live dvd?
<diddledan_> slash usb
<SuperEngineer> [I'm currently on netbook]  the mess up is on desktop - inspecting it with reserve op sys [mint 16]
<diddledan_> which os do you want to handle grub?
<SuperEngineer> ubuntu
<diddledan_> ok, mount /dev/sda2 /mnt
<diddledan_> mount -t proc proc /mnt/proc
<diddledan_> mount -t sys sysfs /mnt/sys
<diddledan_> mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dev
<SuperEngineer> have tried from boot rescue cd, from 999 partition
<diddledan_> chroot /mnt /bin/bash
<diddledan_> cp /proc/mounts /etc/mtab
<diddledan_> if you have a separate boot partition mount it with mount /boot
<diddledan_> and finally grub-update
<diddledan_> or is that update-grub?
<diddledan_> try both :-p
<diddledan_> there might be a 2 in the name for grub2
<SuperEngineer> hmm... "/mnt/proc is a symbolic linkto nowhere"
<diddledan_> ooh, that's not right
<SuperEngineer> darn right it's not
<SuperEngineer> ...reinstal time methinks
<diddledan_> it should be an empty folder before it's mounted
 * SuperEngineer tries from live cd - tpas fingies will it loads
<SuperEngineer> *taps
 * SuperEngineer still taps fingies ......
<SuperEngineer> [can't help thinking I should have hit "install" instead of "try" :)
<diddledan_> lol
<SuperEngineer> nah!  still "mount point /mnt/proc is a symbolic link to nowhere"
<SuperEngineer> ooo that's not helpful: [live cd] "grub-install: error: failed to get canonical path '/cow'"
<SuperEngineer> yuk!
<foobarry> wow, too much scrollback since 5pm
<diddledan_> moo
 * SuperEngineer bits bullet & goes for reinstall :(
<SuperEngineer> ...guess I'd better have a beer while it does it's bit ;)
<MartijnVdS> bits, bullets & beer?
<MartijnVdS> Sounds like an American LUG meeting
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> http://www.opposingviews.com/i/gallery/society/20-hilarious-childrens-spelling-mistakes
<diddledan_> I'm sure some of those were either coerced or faked
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2d9QZFdW8uQ#t=31
<daftykins> Joe 90 theme tune, aww yeah
<diddledan_> I've made a thing
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> http://diddledan.github.io/banner-bar/ <-- effectively just an encapsulation of div-soup
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-12
<daftykins> by jove!
<diddledan_> I can't spell html I just noticed
<diddledan_> "path/to/banner.hmtl"
<diddledan_> I need to attribute the example logo but I can't be bothered right now
<diddledan_> I got it off wikimedia
<diddledan_> under the GnuFDL
<daftykins> furry dogs with laz0rs?
<mapps> morning all
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: are your disks in your synology identical?
<foobarry> what if i bought different 3tb disks?
<foobarry> sometimes slightly different sizes, do u know if it handles it ok?
<foobarry> for RAID1
<foobarry> just discovered the continued support for devices released 2010-2014 won't be that good
<foobarry> might need to wait for ds215
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> morning
<brobostigon> mornning foobarry
<foobarry> hayfever  bad today
<Myrtti> I got very scary urticaria last night
<Myrtti> it did vanish by morning but my thighs, bottom and arms looked red and splotchy and almost like they'll turn into blisters
<Myrtti> never had that before and don't know what set it off
<foobarry> hives?
<foobarry> like hives?
<Myrtti> same thing
<foobarry> getting cold feet about the synology nas now. getting distracted by hp microserver
<Myrtti> a lot of people here have those
<Myrtti> I'm even running this irssi in a vm hosted by one in our home office
<hamitron> not a bad little server, kinda regret buying one myself
<hamitron> :/
<Myrtti> regret?
<hamitron> well, I started with a NAS, and upgraded to the hp microserver "wanting more"
<hamitron> now I wish I'd got a quad core full blown server
<hamitron> pure greed I suppose
<hamitron> think it is this I considered: http://www.ebuyer.com/386362-fujitsu-primergy-tx100-s3-xqc-e3-1220-3-10ghz-8gb-dvd-rw-vfy-t1003sc070in
<hamitron> different ofc
<penguin42> hamitron: It depends what you want your server to serve
<hamitron> yeh, my needs/wants just change ;)
<hamitron> usually get more and more complicated, till I get sick of it. then decide to switch back to something simple
<hamitron> vicious circle ;)
<MattJ> How loud is the microserver?
<MattJ> I'm pretty happy with my Synology
<foobarry> how much power does the microserver consume when idle?
<foobarry> and can it transcode video on the fly?
<mapps> hi all
<foobarry> hello
<penguin42> greetings
<foobarry> knew someone was there :P
<diddledan_> m00
<diddledan_> I'm thursday.. brb, getting liquid sustenance
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> why is shoutcast using my old ip
<popey> pip pip
<Myrtti> pom
<moreati> Myrtti: by any chance was that a http://dresdencodak.com/ reference?
<Myrtti> nope
<moreati> nm then
<SuperEngineer> hmm... quiet in here tonight - everyone must be their respective beer gardens going schluuuuurrrrp!
<penguin42> hey SE
<SuperEngineer> [whilst some of us are wonderinfg why every damn web app freezes their system!]... buuuuuurrrp!
<SuperEngineer> hiyaz penguin42
<SuperEngineer> [drink up everyone - it's just started raining here]  #spoilers
<penguin42> yeh getting grey here; fortunately I had my icecream earlier
<SuperEngineer> lol
<penguin42> an oreo icecream sandwhich, a wonderful thing
<mapps> oreo milkshakes nice
<mapps> :)
<SuperEngineer> oreos & gin - even nicer
<KrimZon> I went to the shops after it had stopped raining and was still tempted to buy ice cream
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You mean soaking the oreos?
<SuperEngineer> well - sort of - dunk, dunk ;)
<SuperEngineer> yum yum
<Myrtti> I spent a lovely time in my own garden reading the homedelivered Guardian while the neighbours were having a housewarming party in theirs. It's truly a magnificent gift being able to tune out speech while concentrating on something.
<daftykins> Myrtti: a far greater skill than i can muster
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-13
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/085j0m1tlkvurut/VID_20140713_024222.mp4
<daftykins> my cat vs. my cycling gloves
<mapps> hello all
<mapps> another miserable day
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<SuperEngineer> o/
<brobostigon> morning SuperEngineer
<popey> yo
<SuperEngineer> successfully back on line after a full reinstall
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<SuperEngineer> - love the installer's ability to let me say "don't you dare touch my home partition"
<brobostigon> morning popey and MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> [only fail is web apps - any webapp now istantly locks the whole system] REISUB stylie!
<SuperEngineer> but who needs web apps anyway - much better security using firefox direct
<SuperEngineer> [& less ads ;)  ]
<SuperEngineer> yikes! kitchen window view - bright;  window by the desktop view - very dark... run for for the hills!
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n3zinsv76wi7vny/AACaYuuzUDTPut0RObL7j3mqa
<daftykins> i was over on one of the neighbouring islands for a wedding yesterday
<penguin42> ohoh the Martians got SuperEngineer
<daftykins> :D
<DJones> Doctor Who fans...https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/488374857386979328  Keep your eyes on @BBCOne tonightâ¦ #HalfTime #GermanyvsArgentina #DoctorWho
<diddledan_> yeah. that's not going to happen.
<diddledan_> because. football
<mapps> hey all
<daftykins> heyup how's it going?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-06
<zmoylan-pi> and tonights movie is... airplane ii
<daftykins> i'm detecting a theme here, zmoylan-pi
<daftykins> Jaws here :>
<zmoylan-pi> the theme of which is used in opening of airplane!
<zmoylan-pi> it was either that or scrooged
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> ******$$$$$$$$
<knightwise> *$$$lllllllllllLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL*****
<knightwise> Oops , sorry bout that
<knightwise> keyboard kept the keystrokes in buffer when i was cleaning it
<MooDoo> morning all
<bujji> not able to install qtcreator
<mapps> im in trouble aent i
<MooDoo> mapps: what you done
<mapps> someone wanting o come to ouuerto banus
<mapps> but wntsme to pay
 * mapps can
<MooDoo> sorry i must have missed the entire conversation lol
<mapps> someone wants me to pay for thi ticket
<MooDoo> tell em to bugger off unless it's someone you want to pay the ticket for :)
<mapps> nah
<mapps> only person id pay a ticket for is dad;p
<MooDoo> tell em to bugger off then :D
<mapps> and he lives in kinghtsbridge
<mapps> so he doesnt want a tenner off mep
<bujji> Package dependencies cannot be resolved
<mapps> well
<mapps> i knoew that;)
<mapps> why else is my dad a illionire yet he was a lowly desk clerk
<mapps> noone dares to say it
<mapps> because russia is ona kill you?
<mapps> 0%
<mapps> i guesss thats it
 * mapps loved his mum
<mapps> gues thats it
<mapps> 'whats youre opening hours24 ************ SEVEN'
<mapps> mom died with hese clowns
 * mapps is an alcolhoic
<mapps> hm
<mapps>  now il be an ubontu-uk for lif
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> Hows things MooDoo ? Not seen you about so much recently
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Take Your Webmaster To Lunch Day! ð
<davmor2> Yay I get to take myself to lunch on JamesTait say so \o/
<zmoylan-pi> so... just like every other day... :-P
<moreati> Morning all. I vaguely remember a project/command (on github?) that intelligently acts on/opens files from (e.g. git status, ack-grep) output. Ring any bells?
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: shhhhhhh
<czajkowski> for all those who like a game of minecraft http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33406344
<MooDoo> if i had the time my son would of loved that - thinking about this for my daughter, someone shoot me now - http://www.ukponycon.co.uk/
<foobarry> http://www.lightningmaps.org/realtime
<Myrtti> so last night my laptop refused to boot because the laptop didn't recognise the operating system...
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Congrats! You are secure!
<Myrtti> I didn't feel much of a winner last night
<Myrtti> just went to bios and turned the setting off
<zmoylan-pi> don't you feel super secure now?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
<diddledan> quiet in here
<bigcalm> Boo
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> graham clueless: https://grahamcluley.com/2015/07/hacking-team-hacked-bad-news-company-helps-governments-spy-citizens-customers
<bigcalm> Ha
<bashrc_> it's been all over the twitterverse
<bashrc_> I think they were mentioned in the wikileaks spy files as a particularly unethical company - effectively guns for hire
<davmor2> Myrtti: I forgot to ask The dell guy came, found the lose wire, fitted it in and then you had the wonder of stereo sound right was there anything else wrong with it after that ?
<popey> quite a chunky torrent too
<popey> 415G of stuff
<davmor2> Myrtti: other that the start up issue this morning
<davmor2> popey: hahaha
<Myrtti> davmor2: he took the old speakers out and replaced them with new ones. Haven't had any other issues IIRC.
<Myrtti> apart from the usual touchpad weirdness
<diddledan> touchpads with ghosties embedded are awesome!
<diddledan> random cursor movements ftw!
<davmor2> Myrtti: yeah touch pads are actually getting worse not better
 * bashrc_ has one of those all-on-one touchpads
<davmor2> bashrc: yeah they suck
<bashrc_> agree
<zmoylan-pi> give me trackpad buttons or give me a wonky weird thing that never works right
<diddledan> wonky weirdness ftw
<bashrc_> yes, I'd much rather have separate buttons
<zmoylan-pi> that as you type and your palm brushes off it sets the cursor off in a little adventure or does 'gestures'
<zmoylan-pi> bring back the hp omnibook stalk mouse
<bashrc_> stalk mouse?
<davmor2> or worse still moves 2 characters to the left and you don't notice
<zmoylan-pi> it was a mouse on stalk on the right hand side of the machine.  if used on your lap it was like a joystick on it's side sticking out of the laptop.  people swore by them http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=123
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that's begging to snap-off
<zmoylan-pi> they survived a lot of punishment from the folks i know who used one.  you had to go out of your way to break it.
<zmoylan-pi> then there were the jmouse and trackpoints for mice on laptops.  either of which is better than a trackpad
<Azelphur> I think I'm officially confusing paypal lol
<Azelphur> called them and tried to explain the fact that I have credit cards denominated in GBP, USD and EUR, my PayPal account has balances in GBP, USD and EUR, and I'd like to make payments in the relevant currencies with no conversion
<Azelphur> and they are like yeeeaaa..no xD
<zmoylan-pi> mention you're a nigerian prince to throw them off? :-P
<Azelphur> lol
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: you in dublin
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: am over next week spread the love to anyone you know about the event http://www.meetup.com/Couchbase-Dublin/events/223462706/
<zmoylan-pi> there's a couchdb thingy on.  i saw.
<czajkowski> please
<zmoylan-pi> i'll retweet and poke a few folk.  but it been summer it's likely they'll be on holiday or covering for those on holiday...  next to impossible to organise games for next 8 weeks or so
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: shuttle bus to bring people there and back as well
<czajkowski> now if someone could bring me a supermacs I'd be very happy
<DJones> czajkowski: Does this count as a "supermac" https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11667403_899875380048608_5840510743442386070_n.jpg?oh=bf107fe89e5bbe8bec2daa2c3a452c7c&oe=56105961 Picture isn't me, just linked from farcebook
<DJones> 10,000 calorie burger called "The Haystack" is available in a pub called the Farmers Arms in Burscough, Lancashire
<czajkowski> DJones: eh no :)
<directhex> DJones: that doesn't look very tasty
<directhex> the meat is black
<bujji> how to create won rulevel?
<zleap> ?
<bujji> zleap:runlevel in linux
<zleap> ok
<zleap> not sure now we are using systemd
<bujji> is this external command
<bujji> total how many runlevels can we create i linux
<zleap> run levels are pre set you can edit them
<zleap> i think or used to be able to
<bujji> runlevel 4  can i edit
<shauno> 4's the one that's intended to be messed with
<bujji> shauno:total how many runlevels can we create in linux
<shauno> I think it used to be up to 9.  But I have no idea how systemd affects this (and almost certainly does affect it)
<shauno> but ordinarily you'd only expect to see 0-6, per https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/LSB_2.1.0/LSB-generic/LSB-generic/runlevels.html
<bujji> remaining 2?
<shauno> 7/8/9 may be accomodated, or may not.  they're not in the spec, so all bets are off
<bujji> 0-9 become 10 now
<bujji> systemd command not found
<shauno> if you have /sbin/systemctl you're probably using systemd
<bujji> no
<directhex> what are you actually trying to do?
<bujji> won runlevel
<directhex> why?
<directhex> what are you actually trying to do?
<daftykins> hurrah for the local events
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ssv1o5dat6tx74g/IMG_20150706_182942.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> couple o' Guernsey Golds there ;)
<awilkins_> Local Sainsbury's is selling Linx tablets on the cheap
<awilkins_> 7 inch model for 90 squit
<daftykins> obscure brands?
<awilkins_> Windows tablets
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> must be models not getting windows 10 :D
<awilkins_> 10 incher for Â£150 or something
<awilkins_> 20 quid off sticker price
<awilkins_> Which was apparently not high anyway
<awilkins_> 10 inch tablet for under 200 quid is el cheap
<awilkins_> So.... can you nuke em and put Ubuntu on
<awilkins_>  :-)
<daftykins> guaranteed or maybe?
<awilkins_> Apparently you can do it via USB
<awilkins_> And it's slow
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-07
<knightwise> hey everyone
<MooDoo> morning all
<DearAllkins> Question: Does anyone know how to topUP an 'E E' mobile phone sim card ? . Sorry for the question , but I'm abit of a fuddy-duddy . You do have those on here - don't you ?
<DearAllkins> no response - I guess I am the only FUDDYDUDDY on here then :/
<DearAllkins> leaving
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * brobostigon is thinking about android wear, as upgrade from his pebble.
<brobostigon> for his birthday
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: Meh, being tracked by the smartphone is bad enough IMHO.
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: my pebble tracks me as well, i have a tracker on there as well, to monitor my distence etc.
<TwistedLucidity> Tracking for personal knowledge/interest is one thing. Being tracked by a third party is quite another.
<brobostigon> good point, when i installed CM, i didnt have to install gapps,
<TwistedLucidity> I wish I could install CM. Next phone will be rootable.
<TwistedLucidity> Well, the phone is rootable; there's just no alternative ROM out there.
<brobostigon> your phone doesnt have to be rootable to install cm, you just have to be able to unlock the bootloader and install cwm for example.
<TwistedLucidity> It's not available for my phone.
<brobostigon> have you had a look on xda? there are roms for many different phones.
<TwistedLucidity> Yes. It simply is not available.
<brobostigon> may i ask what the phone is, please.
<TwistedLucidity> Or the ones that are happen to be part-baked alphas
<foobarry> someone cannot ssh to server, is it poosible to check the encrpytion and bits level used if i only have the pub key?
<TwistedLucidity> It's an HTC Desire X. There's loads of re-skin stuff, just not "proper" Android replacement.
<brobostigon> if there are alphas, that means it is being worked on, and it is possible.
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: It's also a crap phone. Won't be touching HTC again.
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: ah oh dear, the only htc i have had was the htc dream.
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: There's just so much installable junk, their "Sense" UI gets in the way and they provide no updates. Never again.
<foobarry> ssh-keygen -lf authorized_keys
<foobarry> got it
 * bashrc_ is currently running the latest CM on a phone
 * TwistedLucidity gives bashrc_ the evil eye
<bashrc_> I'd like to use UbuntuTouch, but I just don't think the apps are quite there yet
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: ah i see, i can imagine, this is why a couple of months ago when my parents wanted a new phone i sugegsted either the moto E/G, as its basiclly stock android, with no crapware.
<brobostigon> bashrc_: i am running cm12.1 nightly from yesterday.
<bashrc_> yes me also
<brobostigon> :)
<bashrc_> it runs pretty well
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc_: That's heresey here! :-)
<brobostigon> i ahree, what do you think of the new app menu?
<bashrc_> not sure I've seen it
<diplo> Keep debating rooting/romming my G2
<brobostigon> bashrc_: do you use trebuchet?
<bashrc_> no
<brobostigon> thats why then.
<bashrc_> what is it?
<brobostigon> its cm's launcher, they designed themselves.
<brobostigon> its there as standard.
<bashrc_> ok, maybe I do use it then
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate Day! ð
<Cha|Swan> popey ping
<Cha|Swan> Oh wat day is it today JamesTait ?
<JamesTait> Cha|Swan, today is Chocolate Day!
<JamesTait> And something about forgiveness, which may or may not be related.
 * TwistedLucidity demand chocolate from JamesTait before he forgives him
 * JamesTait gives TwistedLucidity something brown and sticky.
 * TwistedLucidity fetches scented poop bag
<JamesTait> It's a stick!
<Doin|Lala> popey, ping
<Doin|Lala> https://twitter.com/torproject/status/618303411071655936 no a happy camper
<popey> Doin|Lala: pong
<Doin|Lala> Hi popey .. hang on let me get me question , ready ..
<Doin|Lala> Ok, popey, Who was in charge of this team ?
<Doin|Lala> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntutv-ps-team
<popey> why?
<Doin|Lala> 'cos I really wanna know.
<popey> that link 404's here
<Doin|Lala> I know .. but who *was* in charge of that team ? \ould you find out for me, please ?
<Doin|Lala> eMail follows via pm
<Doin|Lala> How do I PM on webchat.freenode.net ?
<popey> I don't understand.
<Doin|Lala> 'homey I don't think we're gonna get this done in the next 5 minutes - so I'll go.
<Doin|Lala> leaves.
<popey> how odd
<TwistedLucidity> popey: I think they wanted to know who used to be on the team, maybe to pick up the project or summat. Probably assumed you had access to super-secret info
<popey> I doubt that
<popey> they come in here constantly usually leaving a link and leaving
<popey> very odd behaviour
<TwistedLucidity> Or they have the wrong team name
<popey> maybe
<TwistedLucidity> Or they are...confused as to reality.
<TwistedLucidity> Ahem.
<popey> dunno, it's impossible to have a conversation with them
<popey> they use a different nickname and IP every time they come in here, and leave very promptly, announcing they're leaving, rather than just, you know, leaving
<TwistedLucidity> That's because you waited a whole 2 mins to reply. Time is money!
<popey> ofc
<TwistedLucidity> WebChat...
<popey> not always
<popey> bbc showing off the microbit
<zmoylan-pi> oooooh, link?
<popey> https://t.co/UV2Vh7uKDj
<popey> live video
<popey> very arduino like
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33409311
<popey> sophie is year 7, so she should get one
<awilkins> Ooh, Offpsring will be year 7 next school year
<zmoylan-pi> the bbc micro created a computer revolution as it allowed a lot of kids get their hands on an easy to use standard computer.  maybe the microbit can recreate that
<awilkins> Problem these days is the environment contains so many other computronic distractions
<awilkins> Your attention was focussed on the computer you had in those days, because no Internet, no tablet, no YouTube or Netflix
<zmoylan-pi> but all those tapes of games...
<popey> also, it booted into a programming language
<popey> games weren't free to play
<zmoylan-pi> and most kids only learned load ""
<awilkins> ... unless you had a tape-2-tape deck
<zmoylan-pi> or ability to take 2 cheap headphones apart and make a earphone -> microphone cable
<zmoylan-pi> my first hack :'-)
<awilkins> Observation of Evie is that as soon as she hits a speedbump it's back to watching hairdo[1] videos on YouTube
<awilkins> [1] insert craze of the moment here
<zmoylan-pi> before that it was playing tapedeck in front of microphone with tape deck on cushion to reduce vibration noise
<zmoylan-pi> and at one point hanging microphone from light fitting also to reduce vibration
<popey> i remember recording the top 40 like that on a tape deck in front of the radio on a sunday evening
<awilkins> Heh, yes
<awilkins> I had this ancient condenser mike that I got from my Grandfather
<zmoylan-pi> in some of my earliest copies i can hear traffic and voices in background as game loaded
<awilkins> Is that Dara O'HoweverYouSpellIt?
<zmoylan-pi> my brother made a sound gun from a cheap microphone by hammering aluminium pot into hemisphere.  worked well
<zmoylan-pi> you can recognise dara o'briain's voice anywhere
<bashrc_> I'm not sure the bbc micro created a revolution. The more popular micros were ZX Spectrum
<awilkins> BBC Micro was the root of the school computer revolution
<awilkins> And it was intrinsically more hardware-hackable
<awilkins> All those IO ports
<zmoylan-pi> the zx spectrum was supposed to be the bbc micro.  but the bbc turned a chaotic 8 bit market into a more seriously taken we should teach the kids thing
<bashrc_> only a minority of geeks had BBC micros at home. At my school in the 1980s nothing of interest was tought with the BBC micro other than wordprocessing
<bashrc_> basically the teachers just didn't know much to teach
<awilkins> Ah, we had some interesting stuff going on
<awilkins> No teaching really went on
<awilkins> We just had free reign on the things in breaks
<awilkins> Someone did an implementation of one of those play-by-mail games
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of kids got cheaper c64 or speccie as parents were been told that kids were learning about computers on bbc in school
<awilkins> "It's a Crime"
<bashrc_> we really had no free reign over the micros at school. Their use was very regulated
<awilkins> We'd turn in our moves on an app
<awilkins> They'd go in a network share
<awilkins> And it would batch process them each night
<awilkins> I had an Electron (the el-cheapie BBC)
<zmoylan-pi> our school had it's one official from the government apple ii and 6 c64s linked to a floppy drive that the parents managed to pay for
<awilkins> Main problem with that was it was half the speed (they used a clever hack to make it cheaper - defect-binned RAM and they split each byte into two pairs of 4 bits...)
<zmoylan-pi> the c64s were fair game to all the kids as long as no games were been played if teacher walked in
<awilkins> Ah, I went to a posh private school
<awilkins> We had about 20 or 30 BBC Masters on an Econet when I left
<zmoylan-pi> the apple ii was verboten except to 1-2 kids who had demonstrated that they had one at home and knew how to use it iirc
<awilkins> And a someone smaller contingent of Arches
<awilkins> We had 2 or 3 original Macintoshes in the CDT lab
<awilkins> Mostly got used for playing Crystal Quest
<awilkins> And NetTrek
<zmoylan-pi> i'd love to make a microbit into an agenda type pda.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwriter#Microwriter_AgendA
<JamesTait> Did anyone else play Granny's Garden on the BBC?
<awilkins> Yes
<awilkins> Holy crap, that chordboard cost Â£400 ?!?!
<awilkins> A whole BBC Micro cost that
<JamesTait> That's the only thing I really remember doing on it at school. I learned to program at home with my dad and magazine listings.
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> I used to get my monthly copy of "Electron User"
<zmoylan-pi> even a mouse back then was serious money :-)
<zmoylan-pi> spending days typing in listings from spectrum mags.  sometimes in hex...
<awilkins> http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9458/bitstik1.jpg <<<< Cooool
<awilkins> That was my favourite peripheral
<awilkins> i) It came with a vector graphics demo and you could zoom into a parrots eyeball and see the map of the world in it's pupil
<awilkins> ii) It was great for playing Elite on
<zmoylan-pi> i bought a joystick for my +2 a cheetah.  but i ended up using the keyboard.
<awilkins> Elite on a keyboard is hard
<awilkins> That was the best thing about that bitstik
<awilkins> You could dock easily because you could hold the right rotation speed for the docking port
<awilkins> Doing it on a keyboard involves tippity-tappity
<awilkins> And prayer, once you get close enough to the docking port that you can't see the edges anymore
<awilkins> Since there is no rendered interior as a visual reference
<TwistedLucidity> Voltmace 4 evah!
<TwistedLucidity> You guys should try out Oolite, it's pretty awesome and more mods than you can shake a stick at
<awilkins> Already playing the new shiny official one
<zmoylan-pi> i tried oolite a few years back.  it did look nice but it didn't grab as frontier did
<zmoylan-pi> *grab me
<awilkins> "Latest expansions : Extra Thargoids"
<awilkins> There are zero thargoids in the current "Official" elite
<zmoylan-pi> i played frontier for years... did gravity slingshots
<awilkins> But they are coming
<awilkins> Yeah, Frontier was fun for that kind of thing
<awilkins> Terrible for combat
<awilkins> Pure Newtonian physics doth not a fun combat game make
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: I really liked it. Frontier was OK, but just didn't have that total awesome-sauce feeling that Elite gave me back in the day.
<TwistedLucidity> BSG: Diaspora solved that rather well
<zmoylan-pi> combat was fun in frontier.  once i had accumulated enough dosh to have a 100mw beam laser as my *backup* weapon and 20 shield generators.  buy some gold, gems and collect bounties of attackers
<awilkins> That's not "fun"
<awilkins> That's "Wait for people to arrive and whiff them out of existence with your mighty death ray of doom"
<zmoylan-pi> enter system, swarms of ships attacking.  it was fun.
 * bashrc_ wonders if uk ubuntu users are all from a certain generation
<TwistedLucidity> They had the ships with "special tech" that allowed similar-to-atmo space flight, so combat etc was fun; but the player could disengage that and it would follow a truer Newtonian model.
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc_: Probably. We grew up having to actuall learn stuff, so like to fiddle. The few generation after us were probably the same. The kids of the lat 90s and 2Ks are technological cretins.
<TwistedLucidity> All too easy.
<zmoylan-pi> or time i was landing a huge ship on planet surface and had thruster failure just before landing... mangaged to land it after 5 minutes of frantic reorientation
<TwistedLucidity> Point and click, there's your new Facebook game; don't worry about how it works.
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Sounds like a normal day in Kerbal Space Program....
<awilkins> So many games that just boil down to this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_Clicker
<awilkins> Games like TIS-1000 are like nerdcrack to our generation
<awilkins> My daughter would probably go "Huh?" and go back to YouTube
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Loads of games seem to be along the "get the gems in a line" type thing (forget the original name). All respins, no originality.
<awilkins> Ah yes, those too
<zmoylan-pi> we had lots of those sorts of games in the 80s.  we called them arcade games :-)
<TwistedLucidity> This is why I love indy games. They may be weird, they may be short but they are different.
<zmoylan-pi> then came lemmings...
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, They're trying to win some of the market of Candy Crush Saga
 * bashrc_ wonders if uk ubuntu users are all from a certain generation
<awilkins> Candy Crush Saga : $962k revenue
<awilkins> A DAY
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: You don't win by copying, you win by leading.
<awilkins> $962k a day is beyond the wildest dreams of avarice of old school arcade game makers
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc_: You needing your pills again?
<TwistedLucidity> "revenue"
<bashrc_> hah, got distracted
<zmoylan-pi> his dried frog pills are in his pocket i think
<TwistedLucidity> That's not profit. They prolly spend loads on marketing but yes, there will be some decent coin getting earned there
<awilkins> If you went up to them and went "Hey, in the future, there will be games that earn a third of a billion dollars a year, and even better, people will pay for their own hardware!" they would laugh in your face
<zmoylan-pi> nintendo made serious money on their games despite been much more expensive than 8/16 bit computer games
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: "They will also give away all their personal information which you can sell-on." They'd be fetching for the men with the special long-sleeved jacket
<bashrc_> in the 1980s the software/games industry barely existed, but there was an expectation that it would be much bigger in future
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Game & Watch! I had a few of those. Shame I didn't keep 'em
<awilkins> And it's not even the top grossing game...
<awilkins> It's no.3
<awilkins> Clash of Clans is now No.1
<TwistedLucidity> I wish I had talent and skill, then I'd be rich. :-S
<awilkins> $1.6M a day
<TwistedLucidity> As opposed to grumpy & old. :-(
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: See that advertised all the time on TV. I'd rather play Populous or similar.
<TwistedLucidity> 0AD!
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity : my comments on the MS Hololens presentation was  "If they don't have Peter Molyneux locked in a room developing Populous for Hololens, they're doing it wrong."
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: But they have Minecraft
<zmoylan-pi> yeah i had trojan horse.  helicopter rescue and donkey kong 2 screen jobbie.  http://www.todocoleccion.net/trojan-horse-handheld-gakken-lcd-card-game-game-watch~x40897465#sobre_el_lote
<awilkins> Populous for Hololens & Kinect! HURL YOUR OWN FIREBALLS
<TwistedLucidity> That gives them the PR leverage, no need to build the userbase for Populous
<awilkins> POINT YOUR FINGER FOR LIGHTNING
<awilkins> True
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Sweet idea, someone should totally do that
<awilkins> Minecraft + Godmod
<TwistedLucidity> Even if it's just a tech demo.
<awilkins> (Godmod == populous implemented in minecraft)
<awilkins> (Doesn't exist yet)
<TwistedLucidity> Unfortunatley you need proprietary crap and MS would probably sue you.
<awilkins> (Holy poop that's a winner of an idea)
 * TwistedLucidity patents
 * TwistedLucidity gets sued by MS
 * TwistedLucidity sobs
 * awilkins bet that TwistedLucidity would be sued by MS and colelcts
<TwistedLucidity> Meh, I'd lose all the money in lawyer fees
<zmoylan-pi> if TwistedLucidity wants to colects in private that's their business... :-P
<popey> clash of clans is one of those games that becomes a real grind
<popey> and building things takes _days_
<popey> it also kicks you out periodically so people can attack you (you can't be attacked when in-game)
<popey> it also kicks you out if you play for longer than 5 hours
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Sounds horrid
<TwistedLucidity> I like games on my terms
<popey> so the only way you can progress is to a) buy jewels, b) wait
<cocoa117> in cron.conf file, how does the 1-3/5 * * * * work? it runs every first, second, five, 10, 15,  20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60 minus of hour/days? is that correct?
<popey> brobostigon: https://twitter.com/llamasoft_ox/status/617722840867995648 Jeff Minter made a BBC style watch for pebble :)
<brobostigon> popey: cool, :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: popey when you turn it on does it say pebble, it really kicks the llamas ass :D
<popey> hah
<brobostigon> lolz.
<popey> now, winamp.. thats an idea
<MooDoo> :)
<daftykins> apparently UPSs get quite stroppy when the battery really does die :>
<popey> erk
<daftykins> i woke up to the unit alarm! fixed tone just going beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
<daftykins> i thought i'd have to go buy a new one from ebuyer for about Â£130, but i managed to find the exact battery for Â£50 delivered \o/
<TwistedLucidity> I know a place where a breaker blew and cut power to the server room.
<TwistedLucidity> The UPS alarms went off
<TwistedLucidity> People just closed the doors to cut down the noise
<daftykins> XD
<TwistedLucidity> Then flipped out when they lost Internet....
<TwistedLucidity> The people who closed the doors were the junior IT bods....
<daftykins> i seem to have received a request to pop by and change someones browser homepage
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Do it remote, freak them out
<TwistedLucidity> Page of your choosing
<daftykins> only got RDP access to that one so remoting in would be pretty obvious :>
<TwistedLucidity> Admin shares not open? e.g. C$
<daftykins> wat
<TwistedLucidity> By default Windows will share all drives using special "admin" shares
<TwistedLucidity> Any local or domain admin can hop-on
<TwistedLucidity> Heck, sometimes you don't even need a password; depending on how things are configured
<zmoylan-pi> my little ponies home page
<TwistedLucidity> So try \\comp-name\c$
<daftykins> yes i know all that, why you bring it up though is what is beyond me
<TwistedLucidity> You said "RDP", that's a Windows protocol
<daftykins> correct
<TwistedLucidity> So I assumed you were running Windows
<daftykins> but accessing a share would require having another host to then get to those shares from ;)
<TwistedLucidity> How's about the 'puter you're using right now?
<TwistedLucidity> Just edit the relevant file, have them re-open the browser.
<daftykins> in two different places...
<daftykins> yeah that's not an option :)
<daftykins> i'm not in an office
<TwistedLucidity> Got a VPN?
<TwistedLucidity> That's what I'm on from home.
<daftykins> i appreciate you mean well but were there an easier way i'd know it ;)
<TwistedLucidity> For other stuff, I bow before the awesomeness of SSH
<daftykins> no Linux endpoints, small biz support means you don't have VPNs for everyone :>
<TwistedLucidity> There is an easier way, tell them to not be so damned lazy or send them on a remedial training course.
<TwistedLucidity> Then sell them a remedial training course...
 * TwistedLucidity always looking for the up-sell proposition
<daftykins> *facepalm*
<TwistedLucidity> When they whinge, explain VPNs. Then sell them OpenVPN support....
<TwistedLucidity> Or
<daftykins> i might have to ignore you in a tick if you don't drop it.
<TwistedLucidity> Soz
<diplo> Anyone used zfs on their ubuntu boxes ? from the zfs stable ppa ?
<bashrc_> nope
<daftykins> i was under the impression it's supported more properly on other distros or something? bit vague though
<bashrc_> I think with zfs there's a kernel license incompatability and some hacky workaround
<diplo> Yeah bsd is the place to go, but rather keep running linux but I like the idea behind zfs
<popey> pretty sure they nailed the legal issue in debian now
<bashrc_> ok
<bashrc_> zfs is claimed to be the bees knees, but I don't know much about it
<diplo> Me either bashrc_, that's why I'd like to play :)
<awilkins> Remote registry access
<awilkins> That's how I'd probably change someone's homepage remotely to freak them out
<zmoylan-pi> take a pic of them from behind using a camera shooting video as you walk past and change their desktop image to a pic of the back of their head? :-)
<popey> hehe https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=111373
<lubotu3> Mozilla bug 111373 in XUL "don't allow animated site icons (favicons)" [Enhancement,Reopened]
<popey> 14 years later...
<foobarry> a HP microserver bug got fixed today
<foobarry> bug 1274320
<lubotu3> bug 1274320 in grub2 (Debian) "Error: diskfilter writes are not supported" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1274320
<daftykins> hah what a minor issue
<foobarry> i get that on my HP 54l running ubuntu
<daftykins> (the favicon one i mean)
<popey> cant recall the last time i saw an animated favicon
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> and you'd think if some place had some regular site using it and remote boxes, blocking it would be easier
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> afternoon folks
<daftykins> hello sir, how are we?
<diddledan> sleepy :-p
<diddledan> otherwise good :-p
<daftykins> you've managed to miss peak office hours
<daftykins> vewy gewd!
<daftykins> btw i discovered this morning that UPS alarms are effective alarm clocks
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> i've just got the box powered directly from the mains now :P
<diddledan> that's effective use of a UPS then :-D
<daftykins> well it's an APC BR800I
<daftykins> it's 100% given up on that battery now, can't even trick it
<daftykins> so i've had to order a new one
<diddledan> yeah my UPS battery is nearly knackered, too
<diddledan> it seems it can last maybe 5 minutes with a computer attached
<daftykins> ooh-err
<diddledan> it used to say it can last 20 minutes (it has a readout)
<daftykins> i didn't even dare risk a power off of mine XD
<diddledan> in fact it's saying 15 monutes runtime available right now, but when it actually puts load onto the battery it will no doubt drop that to a couple of minutes
<diddledan> wow, #ubuntu either hasn't had any questions in the last 5 hours or I've not been connected.
<diddledan> oh wait
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> that was #ubuntu-podcast
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I suck
 * diddledan adjusts the size of the panel
<daftykins> diddledan: Â£50 anywho for an official new APC battery \o/ so that'll hopefully restore normality
<diddledan> \o/
<dubaco_1> hey how to use a Garmin 200 and want to use it with ubuntu - im not a geek
<diddledan> oh well "not a geek" - that is bad news because we only help geeks </troll>
<diddledan> in related mumbling, I don't know
<dubaco_1> diddledan, i hate the technical side of ubuntu i just want it to work
<diddledan> dubaco_1: it _might_ be plug-n-play?
<dubaco_1> its not
 * diddledan grrs at dubaco_1's garmin in the hopes it'll magically work
<diddledan> did that help ? :-p
<diddledan> dubaco_1: you might find someone in #ubuntu which has a larger population - it's pretty quiet in here right now
<diddledan> I've never owned a GPS unit so don't really know what plugging-into a pc would normally enable (if it worked)
<diddledan> so unfortunately I can't be any help :-(
<dubaco_1> diddledan, the last comment should have been your first. thanks
<diddledan> dubaco_1: I'm the class-clown :-p
<diddledan> aka troll
<diddledan> if I don't know the answer I mock
<diddledan> I do eventually try to help tho
<daftykins> are GPS units even cable based or bluetooth o0
<diddledan> unrelated to GPS but a fun read: http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1051730-kill-your-buzzwords
<daftykins> oh it's a cycle computer
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> Windows and mac only software
<daftykins> dubaco_1: cycle computer - right?
<daftykins> hmm rather quiet
<dubaco_1> yes daftykins  i was eating food. sorry yes its a cycling pc
<daftykins> dubaco_1: not gonna happen then, Windows or Mac.
<diddledan> what does plugging a cycle computer actually achieve anywho?
<dubaco_1> diddledan,  it helps me keep my job
<dubaco_1> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11836851/ heres the lsusb
<diddledan> nono, I mean what functionality should it provide?
<dubaco_1> when on or off the bike?
<daftykins> pretty sure you'd need software to do anything useful with the data
<dubaco_1> daftykins, www.strava.com
<daftykins> why are you linking me to this?
<dubaco_1> you can make cycling a game
<daftykins> oh you tab complete failed :>
<daftykins> !tcf
<dubaco_1> ALL i need is to dl the gps file from the edge 200 to then upload it manualy to strava
<dubaco_1> @ daftykins
<daftykins> so borrow a Windows machine, tbh
<daftykins> Garmin is notoriously proprietary stuff, you're going to have a hell of a time if you insist on using Ubuntu
<diddledan> really outdated info, but: http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=124627
<daftykins> hehe antique ubuntu!
<diddledan> dubaco_1: there are suggestions that the device might be mounted as a filesystem
<diddledan> big quote:
<dubaco_1> diddledan, i saw that
<dubaco_1> dont know how to mount it
<diddledan> "I have found that all my Linux systems will mount my Garmin 500 and I can access the device like a USB drive.
<diddledan> To import my activities into Strava, I just go to the device and within the Garmin/Activites folder there are all the *.fit files. The file names are in the format YYYY-MM-DD-XX-XX-XX.fit. I just select the file for that particular activity and upload it."
<dubaco_1> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11836851/ thats my lsusb
<diddledan> dubaco_1: in ubuntu if it's mountable it'll appear in the sidebar/dock
<diddledan> alternatively in the file explorer
<diddledan> looks like openssl are going to drop a new high-severity patch on turdsday
 * diddledan wonders how wily wang doodle is doing
<diddledan> I mean wily warewolf
<diddledan> werewolf*
<diddledan> I suck
<knightwise> yeeey :) Mr Robot Episode 2 ! :)
<diddledan> mr robot?
 * diddledan googles
<knightwise> very VERY good geek show
<diddledan> hmm
 * diddledan does something secret to make it magically appear
<diddledan> ooh that sounds awesome
<diddledan> and. christian slater.
<daftykins> <Archer> just... 'Slater'
<knightwise> Just watch the pilot ...
<knightwise> the evil ones use KDE :p
<diddledan> well I'll be flubbered. two episodes have suddently appeared in my media system
<diddledan> --t
<knightwise> I have no idea how that happened
<diddledan> me either
<knightwise> magical interwebbelz
<diddledan> it's magic I tell ya
 * knightwise thinks diddledan has a magic lamp
<diddledan> in related news: I want some flubber
<knightwise> (because he is rubbing stuff all the time behind his computer)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> speaking of which, apparently redtube has been serving malware
<diddledan> (I read about it the other day)
<knightwise> mallware for the sould ?
<knightwise> soul ?
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> you'd think people that frequent such sites might need some
<knightwise> daÃ¹n , wish i could get hold of the soundtrack
<diddledan> I don't know it
<diddledan> daÃºn (windows doesn't let me do the other u)
<diddledan> or should that have been "damn"?
<diddledan> silly fingies?
<diddledan> ooh, hour-long episodes on mr robot?
<diddledan> that's 15 more minutes than standard us shows
<knightwise> wait what ?
<knightwise> where ?
<diddledan> 19:43 <knightwise> daÃ¹n , wish i could get hold of the soundtrack
<diddledan> or 19:46 <diddledan> ooh, hour-long episodes on mr robot?
<diddledan> ??
<knightwise> hour long
<diddledan> aah
<knightwise> diddledan: Link ?
<knightwise> (in private)
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> I have no idea where it comes from. it just magically appears
<knightwise> diddledan: of course it did :)
<diddledan> just spotted that the first episode was an hour-long when I opened it
<knightwise> Thats correct , but the second one is only 45
<diddledan> aah, ok
<knightwise> i thought you found an ep 2 with one hour
<diddledan> just a pilot thing then
<knightwise> nice map here btw : Real time attacks across the web http://map.norsecorp.com/
<diddledan> yeah I like that map
<diddledan> I want to see it when there's actually something serious going-on
<diddledan> eliot in mr robot is kinda a bit like me only extremified
<diddledan> I think that's probably what they were trying to achieve
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> soon there'll be an interview "what i really wanted to do was televise diddledan..."
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> "what's a rootkit?" "it's like a serial rapist with a big thingy"
<awilkins_> That's a different character!
<awilkins_> I'm betting a substantial fraction of people in here identify with Elliot, including me
<diddledan> allo awilkins
<awilkins_> evnin'
<diddledan> hmm, episode 2 leaves it rather in-the-air
<diddledan> that's a terrible cliff-hanger to leave me on
<diddledan> gotta wait till thursday?
<shauno> I didn't think it was much of a cliffhanger tbh
<diddledan> well no, more a cliff-fall
<shauno> :|
<diddledan> I'm guessing that christian slater is a bad man
<diddledan> I was hoping he'd be a white-knight posing as a blackhat
<shauno> hm.  I might have to sleep tonight.  it's shaping up to be a rough week
<diddledan> oh?
<shauno> just way too many hours
<shauno> 5 12-hour shifts, and then 5 days sailing.  and then finally a weekend off
<diddledan> ouch
<shauno> yeah. a good plan coming together with lots of scraping and grinding noises :/
<diddledan> those noises are you grinding your teeth?
<diddledan> slowly going insane...
<Distrosharer> more john_smiths require'd ;-)
<Distrosharer> Feelin' good at moment      ..
<Distrosharer> I've just monetised the entire RMS Operating system.
 * Distrosharer curls his fingers over and brushes his jacket after 'blowing on fingers' ;)
<mapps> 36c tomorrow
<mapps> gonna melt
<diddledan> Distrosharer: perhaps you should call mandriva
<Distrosharer> diddledan: How so ?
<diddledan> Distrosharer: tell them how to monetise their distro
<Distrosharer> that's easy .. have you ever heard of the infomercial and DiscWar documentaries ?#
<diddledan> no
<Distrosharer> Well, apart from UbuntuMate, which distros have a release video/ infomercial about there product ?
<Distrosharer> ...
<Distrosharer> none , exactly.
<Distrosharer> You have to think QVC meets MSN with monetising Operating systems - Or ppl simply won't 'care' enough to invest whatever spare time they have.
<diddledan> I'm failing to see how having a video makes people give you money
<Distrosharer> You explain the /goodness/ of the OS through a video. More users mean more patreons. More patreons means more moolla for Richard.
<diddledan> erm
<Distrosharer> Any way you failed to asked how I've done it with gnewsense ..
<diddledan> 1) linux is created by Linus Torvalds, not Richard Stallman. 2) neither of them care about getting money for their respective softwares
<Distrosharer> gnewsense is pretty much owner by the FSF thou.
<Distrosharer> *owned
<Distrosharer> 1) gnewsense is pretty much owner by the FSF thou. 2) RMS is practically anti-Capital .. well after tonite .. he'll have to wake up and smell the coffee -> https://www.bountysource.com/trackers/19428990-gnewsense
<mapps> hm
<Distrosharer> Note that link is 20 minutes old. It didn't exist before Channel 4 news.
<mapps> you watched all of csi cyber diddledan?
<diddledan> mapps: I'm just catching up right now
<mapps> many left?:)
<diddledan> as in it's playing now
<Distrosharer> back to me pint ....
<diddledan> I'm on ep6 I think (one of the ones I borrowed off ya)
<diddledan> lol @ roof-top scene - aiming a gun a guy threatening to jump
<diddledan> "don't jump, or I'll shoot"
<diddledan> or "don't kill yourself, or I'll kill you"
<mapps> heh
<diddledan> the accelerometer recreation was pretty unbelievable tho
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> remind me?
<diddledan> two phones. one in the purpetrator's jeans, the other in the victim's dress. using accelerometer logs they created a visualisation of two people having a fight
<diddledan> including arm movements
<diddledan> and legs
<shauno> interesting chap
<diddledan> weirdo
<mapps> ahhh yea i remember now
<awilkins_> Hey! Â£37k to work on a 15-years obsolete web templating language on Windows! http://www.digitalhealth.net/recruitment/item.cfm?id=13299&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
<diddledan> awilkins_: I like that this 15year old obsolete tech is classified as "part of an exciting, cutting edge new development programme"
<zmoylan-pi> please bring your own win3.1 install disks :-)
<awilkins_> Yeah, I didn't look at that ad and go "OMG they want someone to do scut work fixing bugs in their crappy old web app AT ALL"
<diddledan> there's some awesome buzzword bingo in the "Key duties will include" section
<awilkins_> Â£37k for a dev with 15 years experience by definition
<diddledan> such as "Assisting in the translation of functional requirements into technical specifications"
<awilkins_> I tweeted them back and wished them luck
<zmoylan-pi> tea maker/sandwich fetcher?
<vetman3309> feds?
<awilkins_> UK NHS
<awilkins_> So, kinda feds
<awilkins_> Healthcare IT is a rotting cesspool of ancient tat
<awilkins_> Because in healthcare, people are incredibly risk averse
<diddledan> awilkins_: and new tat built on top of the ancient tat
<awilkins_> THey dare not change anything, because it might change stuff
<vetman3309> paha
<shauno> I'm annoyed enough that I'm not allowed to do anything that won't work on IE8
<diddledan> shauno: I get that
<zmoylan-pi> nowt wrong with ancient stuff.  usually it's debugged.  usually
 * awilkins_ looks incredulous
<diddledan> shauno: government often insists on that for any sites we make for them, even if it's supposed to be a public site rather than internal one
<zmoylan-pi> _or_ the bugs are well known and workarounds exist
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: _or_ the bugs are well known and explotable
<diddledan> exploitable*
<diddledan> e.g. winxp
<zmoylan-pi> or explodable :-)
<shauno> it bugs me no end.  the only groups still using IE8 are only allowed to us it for internal tools that require it
<vetman3309> fancy fixing universal dowl site xD
<diddledan> universal dowl?
<vetman3309> jsa one
<diddledan> that's wood that can be used for everything?
<vetman3309> lol i forget that not everyone speaks northern
<awilkins_> vetman3309, Hah, I had an approach from a guy on linkedin to work for the DWP
<vetman3309> xD please!
<awilkins_> I restrained myself from spitting in his virtual eye, just barely
<awilkins_> I was in two minds, briefly
<awilkins_> At first I thought "Hey, maybe I can make things better from the inside"
<awilkins_> THen I thought "Hah, since when did THAT ever work out?"
<diddledan> awilkins: I'm assuming that's two-minds whether to spit or ignore? rather than take the job vs not take the job.
<diddledan> awilkins, steven elop?
<awilkins_> "better"?
<diddledan> well he did make it better. after he made it much worse
<diddledan> I mean once he'd finished with the making it worse, even microsoft is better
<vetman3309> wow!
<awilkins_> Meh. Anyway, I'm not working for the DWP. Public service agencies with a brief to make things worse for the vulnerable can sod off. I'd be miserable.
<zmoylan-pi> microsoft is better?  how? less sweaty since ballmer left?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: micrsoft was "better than nokia could ever be again" once elop was done
<diddledan> awilkins: they might have hired you and then made you redundant due to cost saving measures
<zmoylan-pi> well nokia is not done.  it stopped.  it could chose to start again with clean slate
<diddledan> awilkins: obviously as part of cost saving they include nice redundancy packages
<awilkins_> diddledan, Permie jobs in gov depts. are actually really hard to lose
<awilkins_> But yes, they pay good redundancy
<vetman3309> daamn i need to learn computer wizardry
<diddledan> this is why the bbc gets moaned at for golden handshakes - they believe they're government controlled
 * diddledan hands vetman3309 a lump of wood from diagon alley
<awilkins_> vetman3309, computer wizardry does pay pretty well
<awilkins_> On the other hand, it is like learning wizardry - lots of evenings spent in poring over dark grimoires
<awilkins_> Learning utterance in arcane tongues and the Names of Unspeakable Daemons
<zmoylan-pi> and meetings...
<diddledan> don't you hate how plex doesn't tell you what movie/tv-show the image it's displaying as it's background comes from?
<zmoylan-pi> with the 3 dots and everything...
<diddledan> awilkins, that sounds decidedly like management, too
<awilkins_> diddledan, with computer wizardry, when you give orders, they are generally followed to the letter
<zmoylan-pi> awilkins_ is not familiar with visual basic then? :-)
<diddledan> "we need to leverage our synergy to capitalise on the business opportunity presented by the ongoing business processes"
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that's voodoo
<awilkins_> zmoylan-pi, I can make VB6 do things that transcend it's meagre begginings
<zmoylan-pi> chickens were sacrificed true enough...
<awilkins_> I can make VB6 go faster than VB6
<zmoylan-pi> i made vb apps that ran for months without crashing.
<vetman3309> how would one go about learning the magiks?
<diddledan> I still think it's hilarious that I thought I was clever by making a VB6 CGI framework (common gateway interface, not computer generated imagery)
<zmoylan-pi> but i always considered it suggesting rather than programming
<awilkins_> I've written VB6 programs longer than 500 lines that worked perfectly first time
<awilkins_> vetman3309, If you're serious... well, there are lots of pages about that
<diddledan> you should google something on bing.com
<awilkins_> This one's a classic : http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
<diddledan> gotta love eric raymond
<zmoylan-pi> typing google into bing... doesn't that break the internet?  maybe i should ask siri about that...
<awilkins_> Yeah. Because if you don't he sure has enough guns to shoot you.
<vetman3309> i remember reading AC by the jolly roger and it giving you tips for dial up the various boxes but never actual wizardry
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: when you want to search for something on the internets you go to bing.com and type google.com and click the first link, then you type your search into the box and click "I'm feeling lucky"
<awilkins_> This is REAL wizardry, the likes of which mere mortals cannot hope to replicate these days : http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html
<zmoylan-pi> when i first read the story of mel in the 90s i wondered if it were possible to do the loop without a test trick in vb.  took me ages years later to debug that program as i didn't leave a comment :-)
<diddledan> omg I was only 17 when that was written (give or take two months)
<diddledan> (17 days)
<awilkins_> I was 9
<zmoylan-pi> i was 12
<awilkins_> Wow, a channel I'm YOUNG in
<diddledan> 17 days is ancient
<zmoylan-pi> it would be 3 years before i got my first computer a zx +2
<zmoylan-pi> well it's 2330, all the kids are in bed
<diddledan> why is it that whenever someone twits something wrongly or abusively they claim they were hacked as the first response when called-out?
<diddledan> the latest being a bbc reported twatting that the queen died
<diddledan> reporter**
<zmoylan-pi> because people who are clueless think that covers their mistake
<diddledan> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/07/07/queens-death-tweet-bbc-reporter_n_7746674.html
<diddledan> really?
<diddledan> they think lying absolves them of wrongdoing?
<zmoylan-pi> near as i can figure.  i try not to think down to that level of dumb as it hurts my brain
<zmoylan-pi> it's like in tech support you ask what they did and they deny everything
<diddledan> "OMG it's works now! what did you do?" "oh, nothing really"
<zmoylan-pi> i often didn't mind people breaking things if they told me what they did as it speeded up fixing it.  and they often learned not to do it again
<diddledan> oh, you're talking from the engineer's perspective
<diddledan> I was thinking you were talking to support and they denied everything
<zmoylan-pi> i think the i was hacked excuse is just the modern equivalent of i did nothing
<zmoylan-pi> oh i had tech support deny everything too...
<diddledan> that and "commies" or "china" or "russkies"
<diddledan> or north korea for releasing a movie late
<zmoylan-pi> i had a customer getting out of memory error on windows 3.1.  it was a while ago :-) so i rang ms. i was young/dumb.
<diddledan> "we made a movie but you can't watch it because OMG INTERNATIONAL CRISIS"
<diddledan> what was the problem?
<zmoylan-pi> i told them i was running windows in enhanced mode on a ibm ps/2 286 using a qram above board that gave it enhanced extra memory.
<zmoylan-pi> and ms told me i wasn't
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> clever how they can know so absolutely what you're doing
<zmoylan-pi> and that was it, they would not belive a 286 could run windows in enhanced mode.  it had to be a 386 or better
<diddledan> that engineer needs retraining
<zmoylan-pi> never mind the memory card cost more than the computer which was silly expensive
<diddledan> bad etiquette to outright call your customer a lyer
<diddledan> lier*
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it prudent not to mention it was also running novell server at the same time :-)
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> in the end once i disabled a graphic driver option it started working ok
<diddledan> novell. that's one OS I've not had the chance to play with
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> new gfx card?
<zmoylan-pi> but i only rang ms once after that when i was ordered too.  useless then too
<zmoylan-pi> it had an option to do 65000 colour depth.  once i switched it to 256 it was grand
<diddledan> I've phoned microsoft many many times. to get the damned thing to believe I am not a hacker/pirate
<shauno> I've never phoned microsoft :)
<zmoylan-pi> last time it was to report a bug in qbx that effected using a modem in basic.  they told me there was no bug.  i found out 10 years later there was a patch available at the time to fix the problem.  but they didn't want so send patches to ireland.  i could hit ms building in ireland from my window at work.  don't ask how i know that :-D
<diddledan> shauno: you use a mac
<diddledan> I've submitted over 30 feedback items for win10
 * diddledan goes to find the exact number
<diddledan> 37 feedbacks by me. on which I've had 54 "upvotes" aka "likes"
<diddledan> why do the papers think it's important to share pictures of the dutchess of cornwall's "marylin munro dress mishap"
<shauno> you buy papers?
<shauno> or do you just eat a lot of fish&chips
<diddledan> nono, online papers
<diddledan> it's actually ITN in this case which I guess isn't really a paper, but a tv channel
<zmoylan-pi> rome had bread and circuses, britain has dole and the royal family.
<diddledan> and apparently bill cosby raped women
<diddledan> http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/apnewsbreak-cosby-said-he-got-drugs-to-give-women-for-sex/ar-AAcEely?ocid=spartanntp
<zmoylan-pi> not proven. highly suspicious but still not a conviction
<diddledan> it's msn, I know
<zmoylan-pi> there's a trend these days for mob justice online that will not end well
<diddledan> I say we should round up a group of people to bring down these mobs
 * zmoylan-pi bagsies franchise on pitchforks...
<shauno> hm.  I should be up at 5.  but I just watched the wrath of khan, and don't think I can go to sleep in good conscience without watching the search for spock first
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: don't forget fire
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-08
<zmoylan-pi> amazing grace at end of wrath of khan on bagpipes... ::sniff::
<diddledan> I love amazing grace on bagpipes
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<daftykins> shauno: yeah you can't leave him out there on Genesis unfound.
<zmoylan-pi> which takes you to the voyage home...
<zmoylan-pi> then it kinda goes wrong with star trek 5
<diddledan> really you need to see all three together
<zmoylan-pi> i like star trek 5.  but it doesn't fit in with the rest of the movies
<shauno> man, it's amazing how many gadgets are completely ripped off from star trek
<zmoylan-pi> then 6 with a klingon doing sheakspeare in the original klingon...
<zmoylan-pi> well a lot of tech does come from sci fi since forever.  remember the british got radar after asking scientists was a death ray possible :-)
<shauno> http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/artoftrek/david-marcus.jpg
<shauno> tell me he's not wearing a gopro
<shauno> and the radar thing sounds very much like urban legend ;)
<diddledan> on his left pocket?
<diddledan> I thought the radar thing was what the germans believed we were working on
<shauno> yeah, the coat pocket
<zmoylan-pi> well radar is a bit weird as everyone invented their own version. germans, british, american, japanese
<zmoylan-pi> it was just the time to invent radar i suppose
<diddledan> the german version had a giant wily (werewolf) flapping around in the middle of a disc
<zmoylan-pi> look up the history of battle of the beams of radio jamming in wwii. a real geek hacker war
<shauno> yeah.  our big step really wasn't inventing radar.  it was inventing the magnetron that made microwave radar sensible
<shauno> which was a big deal because it's much more directional, and gives much better resolution
<diddledan> aye giant antenna arrays weren't really very viable (despite our attempts)
<daftykins> hmm how does one cheer up someone who lost their cat :S
<zmoylan-pi> get them a kitten \o/
<shauno> giant arrays work, but you can't stick them in the nose of a plane, and you can't hide them easily
<diddledan> daftykins: mention how you loved her ****
<shauno> which variant of lost are we talking here?  it might come back in 3 days?  or "lost"?
<diddledan> daftykins: alternatively suggest a sexchange
<diddledan> or is this the result of sexchange already? :-p
<diddledan> sorry, I've got wily warewolfs on the brian
<daftykins> had to put her down
<diddledan> daftykins: that's not going to cheer them up much
<shauno> ah, ok
<daftykins> even i'm finding it upsetting :/
<diddledan> "I'm sorry you lost your cat, this will scratch a little and then you'll forget" :-p
<daftykins> mmm need the Men in Black flashy thing
<diddledan> :-(
<shauno> I was just gonna suggest that a kitten's maybe not a great idea if it's tv-remote lost.  if it's grandma-lost it's .. well less bad
<diddledan> might be too soon
<shauno> er, less bad an idea that is.  (trying to avoid ever calling it a good idea though)
<daftykins> ah there's still one more cat
<daftykins> i don't think this friend digging the grave herself was too touching a move by family
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> that's sucky :-(
<daftykins> mmm, very challenging one
<daftykins> i've not had to deal with others emotions before really o0
<shauno> hm.  where am I gonna find a drill at 2am
<zmoylan-pi> your neighbours are hoping you don't get a good answer to that question
<diddledan> shauno: had a tip-off that the feds are on their way and need to destroy your hard disks?
<zmoylan-pi> for that you use a fubar
<zmoylan-pi> or make your own thermite
 * diddledan out-foos zmoylan-pi 
<shauno> or a microwave, since it's 2015 so you've obviously ssd'd all the things
<diddledan> I'll see your foo and raise you one
<diddledan> SSD makes data too easy to destroy
<shauno> (or if you really want to make sure, samsung firmware ..)
<diddledan> for the criminal that's a good thing. for the rest of us it's a bit eep
<diddledan> I heard about that but didn't actually hear what the problem was or work out whether mine is affected
<daftykins> shauno: that's only one model :P
<popey> ahhhh
<daftykins> and anyone sensible who read about TLC knew it wasn't worth the risk
<popey> that moment when you discover the reason for a bug
<popey> I can sleep now
<daftykins> eureka? :D
<popey> just a bit
<diddledan> popey: stay awake like the rest of us vampres
<diddledan> vampires*
<daftykins> you folk work in dev jobs, why does my friends company make her do mind numbing performance reviews o0
<diddledan> oh those suck
<shauno> most likely her company is too big
<daftykins> and why does it seem like a total skive for the managers, vs. actually doing something sane
<diddledan> I have to do my own now, I guess, because I'm freelance
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> shauno: yeah, Pros if they're well known
<daftykins> seem to be quite worldwide
<diddledan> so, dan, how has your quarter been? are you performing well? <-- yes. --> well done. carry on.
<daftykins> nah you have to pick fault with yourself too :P
<popey> spot the difference
<popey> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/211045350/screenshot20150708_014157276.png
<popey> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/211045409/screenshot20150708_014208399.png
<shauno> that's usually the easy bit ;)
<diddledan> pick fault. hmm: "you forgot to put the loo seat down yesterday. don't do it again."
<popey> focus eye on the bit that says "BLUE" but is in fact Red. :)
<ahayzen> lol
<diddledan> popey: isn't that "blue" actually "canonical orange"?
<popey> hah
<shauno> and the red that's quite pink-leaning
<popey> yeah, tempted to just get rid of that theme and use the one that works
<popey> where the colours are actually what they say they are
<daftykins> popey: ah-ha, you've had my colourblind mate designing things!
<popey> haha
<popey> anyway, bug marked "bitesize" and I'm off to bed
<popey> ta-ra night owls
<daftykins> poor lad, he watched the Green Lantern film and didn't have a clue that the enemy was yellow, looked the same to him
<shauno> have you ever asked a colour-blind person how they handle traffic lights?
<daftykins> nn \o
<daftykins> shauno: with gloves like any other sane person
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> green lantern. lol.
<shauno> I had someone explain to me that he stops on brown and goes on brown. made me rather nervous about driving with him
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> our performance review thing actually did something sensible last year.  I'd be very surprised if it survives
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> they polled other people for performance reviews
<shauno> we still had to dance through all the stupid questions, but it was quite nice to have "everyone loves shaun .. except his managers"  instead of just "shaun's managers hate him"
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> okay, I swear this klingon is doc brown
<diddledan> ok. so ssd firmware bug was never in production units?
<daftykins> shauno: one is!
<diddledan> what's all the hullabaloo then
<daftykins> diddledan: which is this?
<diddledan> samsung evo
<daftykins> there been a story today?
<diddledan> no the one that shauno mentioned earlier
<daftykins> there was totally the performance degradation issue ongoing for months
<diddledan> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6503/second-update-on-samsung-ssd-840840-pro-failures
<daftykins> oh yeah that one never got out
<daftykins> that's not even worthy of consideration
<shauno> that's 2012
<diddledan> i.e. he said (paraphrased) "if you want your data killed, use a samsung drive"
<daftykins> yeah that hasn't happened
<diddledan> shauno: do you know a more-recent firmware issue on samsung drives that I should be concerned about then?
<daftykins> 840 EVOs lose the electron charge threshold slowly down performance hugely as it becomes harder to read the values stored within cells
<diddledan> really?
<daftykins> oops that was badly worded
<diddledan> is there actual evidence of that causing data loss?
<shauno> I think NCQ was the one I was making jokes about
<daftykins> no word on data loss, just things crawl to a halt for having to go back and repeatedly retry reading cells
<shauno> there was an issue with some drives reporting that they supported NCQ when they didn't
<daftykins> Samsung have a second newest firmware and a maintenance app that goes over a drive and essentially rewrites it all
<shauno> which wasn't an issue because no-one else supported NCQ.  until linux implemented sata 3.1.
<daftykins> hmm
<shauno> (and another bug where linux tried to use NCQ to trim to the wrong blocks.  I think these were a bad combination)
<daftykins> i think all sandforce controller based SSDs have had far worse woes
<zmoylan-pi> so what sort of support do these drives have on linux for updates/utilities?
<daftykins> bootable ISOs for firmware
<zmoylan-pi> not too shabby then
<daftykins> and nothing for the utilities afaik
<daftykins> OCZ used to have these neat minimal GUI Linux live ISOs that would boot, connect to the internet then query your SSD and update it in one hit
<daftykins> not sure that's still around since Toshiba bought their SSD portion
<zmoylan-pi> i'll stick with spinny drives then
<daftykins> you're missing out
<zmoylan-pi> i'll stick with what i trust
<daftykins> the performance gains will give you so much more free time :D
<daftykins> and oooh the silence
<daftykins> plus you can start flinging laptops around without worrying
<zmoylan-pi> i like the noise of a drive.  i can hear problems develop and make sure my backups are ready
<zmoylan-pi> my hearing is excellent at high frequency,  even in my 40s
<zmoylan-pi> i can still hear mice and bats
<daftykins> but you should backup on a schedule!
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> i do that to but sometimes you hear a drive make a noise that makes your paranoia do one early
<daftykins> i'll feel happier once i get that new UPS battery in
<daftykins> don't really get powercuts over here so much as the 90s though
<zmoylan-pi> grew up in a house a few doors down from a hospital, till they changed our area in 80s we never saw a power cut
<daftykins> impressive
<shauno> I think I'm getting old.  I got one of those plastic drawer/tray things with all the tiny organizing compartments.  and it's pretty much my favourite toy right now
<diddledan> lmao
<daftykins> then where's the pic?!
<diddledan> shauno: you're a grandad now. even if not biologically
<zmoylan-pi> i have loads of those :-)
<zmoylan-pi> one in most bags that i use.  filled with lots of odds and sods
<shauno> I think I'll go take a nap after this coffee
<zmoylan-pi> nap... after coffee... you're coffee's broken
<zmoylan-pi> *your
<daftykins> i don't feel like the stuff does much to me
<shauno> I think I'm pretty much imune at this point
<daftykins> you could go on a detox and get your tolerance lowered!
<daftykins> :>
<shauno> it used to work.  I still have fond memories of trying to prove that the FDA's overdose limit was nonsense
<zmoylan-pi> my mother used to get though 18 cups of tea a day, when she stopped she had massive headaches for months
<shauno> 40 shots of espresso in one sitting is still my record
<shauno> I'm convinced we could have managed more, but my boss's wife sent me home for "talking to the customers"
<shauno> I'm now so boring that I fear that'll forever be one of my proudest moments
<daftykins> ;_;
<daftykins> you need to get on some bucket list items! :)
<daftykins> bah, HTPC spontaneously booted again
<shauno> I'm working on it :)  had my first sailing list in may, and I'm racing in cowes week next month.  that's been a pretty major "get off my ass"
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> did your bottom bracket tool come yet? :>
<shauno> haven't ordered it yet.  I'm away all next week, so I figure I'll wait till I get back
<shauno> else knowing my luck, it'll arrive while I'm gone and everything will go wrong
<diddledan> also, after curry, has your bottom bracket ever fallen out?
<diddledan> of course, I'm now wondering what a "bottom bracket tool" is for. some kind of sodomistic things?
<shauno> the closest I can get to answering that, is "the day after taking the Curry Hell Challenge in Newcastle, I flew on an ATR all the way from Newcastle to Dublin.  That was not clever."
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we have ATRs over here!
<daftykins> our mate is being made to go back to one to do his Captaincy
<shauno> nothing "fell out", but as it flapped around on the wind trying to land, I did not feel fantastic at all
<diddledan> one of these? http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/2/7/1757727.jpg
<shauno> yes  lol
<shauno> I miss aer arann.  they did all kinds of stupid little routes on those
<shauno> I guess they still do, since they've been subsumed into aer lingus.  but they don't come to galway anymore, which ruined it for me.  if I have to go all the way to a real airport, I might as well get on a real plane
<daftykins> they're huge, what you want is... http://www.alderneypress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/g-joey2.jpg
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> those suckers are true 'air taxis'
<shauno> that engine on the tail looks very .. kerbal
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I think it must have been designed by an aussie
<daftykins> when banked 45 degrees to the side of the island, everyone including the sole pilot is staring out the side at the island :>
<shauno> we have something similar to that, but without the kerbal'd engine - http://img.rasset.ie/0008cd59-642.jpg
<diddledan> "that tail looks boring, mate, shove an engine up there!"
<daftykins> once, a passenger noticed a tire was flat - so he tapped the pilot on the shoulder and he went "oh dear" and landed on a beach instead
<shauno> I keep meaning to try one of these out to the islands, just because I'm a nerd.  but I can never figure out how to plan it
<daftykins> you could come visit!
<daftykins> :P
<shauno> if I go out on the ferry, I can wake up that morning, look out the window and go "nahhh".  if I fly, I have to book it the day before and pray for the weather
<shauno> I meant the islands here ;)
<daftykins> hmm think we can book same day in person here
<daftykins> oh i know :P
<daftykins> but how could you possibly pass up riding in Joey
<daftykins> i mean he even has his own comic books
<shauno> "comfortably, from a distance"
<shauno> which reminds me
<shauno> diddledan: I wasn't kidding about being in southampton next month  lol
<diddledan> yeah, but I'm a hermit
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> have you guys crossed paths before given your lengthy exposure over the aye-arr-seas?
<daftykins> or do you both know better :D
<shauno> nah
<diddledan> it might be dangerous
<shauno> I don't go back to the UK often, because it's boring and expensive
<diddledan> you know, same time, same place and all that
<shauno> and dan doesn't go Outside often, because he's lost the front door key
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yeah, I've got a rope out the window for deliveries
<diddledan> luckily no fires yet, so I've not needed to go that route myself
<shauno> oh man.  I've had a delivery guy offer to try to bung the parcel in an upstairs window before
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> "stay there, I'll chuck it"
<shauno> nah, he called me because I wasn't home
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> "stay there, I'll chuck it"
<shauno> he seemed pretty convinced he could get it in the open window.  but upstairs isn't my house
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> that kinda puts a downer on it
<diddledan> ok, so the huffington post have a story that the MI5 foiled "al qaeda's most ambitious plot" because london got bombed
<diddledan> kinda a bit of a "well on the one hand, many deaths. but good news, we caught some other dudes"Â£
<daftykins> as in they were off doing one job and couldn't focus on averting the bombings in London?
<diddledan> I don't really know
<diddledan> it sounds like "we let them bomb london so we could catch someone"
<daftykins> hrmm
<diddledan> quote: Mr Parker said: "Iâm not sure we would have detected it without the uplift that followed 7/7."
<diddledan> so paraphrasing "see, we told you we need to invade your privacy!"
<diddledan> I'm not sure "increased surveilance" counts as an "uplift" either
<shauno> how cute, you still think you have privacy :p
<diddledan> but I'm a liberal I guess
<diddledan> shauno: at least with facebook I know I'm getting rear-ended and have accepted it. government is doing it without me bending over and saying "have at it" first
<shauno> oh I know.  it's both sad and hilarious.
<diddledan> sorry, family friendly!
<diddledan> m00. erm, I mean Guest00
 * diddledan wonders whether Guest97090 is actually here or if that was random disconnections
<daftykins> i thought the uplift was a thing my mates just booked at the bikepark in Wales
<shauno> that just makes it sound like they got a boost in resources that they found useful
<shauno> but in the context of their current whines that they can't decode my phone .. hah
<diddledan> tony blair: "we are not going to allow anyone to excuse themselves by saying the slaughter of totally innocent people is somehow a response to any decision by any government." <-- so invading iraq is out of the question then?
<zmoylan-pi> been pr in mi5 is great, you can just make stuff up and when asked say we can't provide any details because of security
<shauno> I'm curious what'd happen if people start to subpoena the intelligence services for their defense
<diddledan> in other news, the RMT have succeeded where al qaeda failed. london will be brought to a standstill for a whole 24 hours starting from 18:30 tomorrow
<zmoylan-pi> they'll just pass a law saying they can ignore a subpoena
<shauno> I mean, can I use gchq as my alibi?
<diddledan> shauno: you need to include lots of speculation about ongoing projects that need to be classified
<shauno> lol, I'm more thinking of perfectly sensible stuff
<shauno> "I was in x place at y time.  the crown has records of this.  the crown is prosecuting."
<zmoylan-pi> project bogroll, a real clean up job
<diddledan> shauno: so. getting the government to submit data from gchq on the basis that gchq is part of the prosecution's enterprise and therefore fair game for evidence requests?
<shauno> I'm not sure it has to work, it just has to stick a question in the jury's mind.  the whole 'reasonable doubt' thing
<zmoylan-pi> remember the oversight for gchq is a small bunch of politicians who gchq probably have evidence of various illegal acts
<diddledan> doesn't reasonable doubt only cover murd0r?
<shauno> it's meant to be any trial.  it's near impossible to prove absolutes.  you just have to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt'
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: sounds like one of the seasons of nikita
<shauno> I just find it interesting that the crown can use gchq against you, but can withold evidence that might support you
<diddledan> it's a good thought
<diddledan> I don't suppose we'll ever find out the answer until one of us gets solicited
<shauno> well
<shauno> you, basically.  zmoylan-pi, daftykins and myself aren't in the UK :)
<zmoylan-pi> the answer is it's nonsense, a complete waste of money and resources and undermines democracy
<zmoylan-pi> yet gchq spies on ireland a fair bit
<zmoylan-pi> much good that it did them
<shauno> sure, but they likely won't show up in court here :)
<daftykins> did i show you guys our leaders? https://www.dropbox.com/s/ssv1o5dat6tx74g/IMG_20150706_182942.jpg?dl=0
<zmoylan-pi> not exactly true, they did provide evidence to the gardai when it suited them to get people convicted here
<zmoylan-pi> wether the evidince was real or manufactured is left to the readers opinion
<diddledan> daftykins: the cow?
<diddledan> maybe that should read "the cow!"
<daftykins> both!
<daftykins> Guernsey Golds, them
<diddledan> nvidia are going into fast food? "nvidia hopes to sell more chips by bringing ai programming to the masses"
<diddledan> I guess nvidia's idea is "people can build and program a robot to come to our takeaway restaurant to buy chips"
<diddledan> kiddy fiddler might not go to prison because he'll be unable to fiddle kids: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paedophile-could-dodge-jail-because-6018730
<diddledan> that's a paraphrase btw
<daftykins> i had a feeling there were no child musicians in the story
<diddledan> ok, so it's actually his pacemaker that "needs" wifi. he'll just use it anyway
<diddledan> I fail to understand why a pacemaker would "need" wifi, and also how it would connect when the network is secured with a key
<diddledan> and what happens when he goes on holiday?
<diddledan> or, god forbid, leave his home wifi-network's range to get a pint of milk (or drop by the local school)
<zmoylan-pi> they can bung him in low security place with heavily restricted wifi
<zmoylan-pi> 2400baud wifi should be fast enough :-)
<shauno> probably much more sane to have an outbound policy limited by host
<zmoylan-pi> you see mobile phones popular with prisoners sold in dublin all over the place. http://www.broadsheet.ie/tag/beat-the-boss-phones/
<diddledan> really unmetered bandwidth? http://www.libsyn.com/podcast-hosting-services/
<diddledan> (I was nosing to see what a particular podcast used to drive their, rather naff, webpage)
<diddledan> i.e. these guys: http://surfacesmiths.com
<diddledan> they were linked by Gabe Aul in a mass-email I received
<diddledan> oh no, looks like I found them on his twatter feed
<diddledan> or not, actually it was the windows insider twit
<diddledan> I wish I could make musics
<diddledan> I'm not arty tho
<zmoylan-pi> karaoke to punish the universe for not making you musical :-p
<diddledan> that would be too evil
<diddledan> my singing is worse than my music creation ability
<zmoylan-pi> you need... microsoft songsmith... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oGFogwcx-E
<diddledan> lol I remember that
<diddledan> wow, I won a whole Â£6 last night on the eurolotto
<mapps> morning
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> how goes?
<diddledan> still "stupid hot"?
<diddledan> it's cooled down a bit here
<mapps> atm its ok
<mapps> but 36c at 5p
<mapps> m
<diddledan> eep
<mapps> is gonna be tough lol
<diddledan> ooh, a new movie has appeared in my collection: survivor: stars milla jovovich and pierce bosnan
<diddledan> still got moar csi:cyber to watch, too
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> i watched spy ..decent enough
<diddledan> yeah?
<diddledan> I like the look of that
<mapps> ya considering jason statham and that woman
<mapps> both normally in rubbish films imo
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> jason statham is the new steven segal
<mapps> yea
<mapps> he was funny in spy tho :)
<diddledan> time for episode 8 of csi:cyber. entitled "Selfie 2.0"
<mapps> heh
<mapps> what a title
<diddledan> eep @ manky body in the first scene
<diddledan> she doesn't look very well
<diddledan> might be a slight touch of dehydration
<MooDoo> morning
<diddledan> m00
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc_> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> blimey
 * popey checks the time
<diddledan> yey for bt shenanigans
<bigcalm> :P
 * davmor2 picks himself up off the floor, bigcalm dude are you okay, you know it's like really the morning ;)
<bigcalm> Yeah... I'm trying to ease myself into work today. Haven't found my mojo yet
<diddledan> had a line with sky which I've cancelled in favour of no landline. phone line is still active, with a new number. sky won't talk to me because I'm no longer a sky customer. bt won't talk to me because I'm not a bt customer. openreach won't talk to me because I'm not a service provider. all I want is for my landline to be killed!
<bigcalm> Free phone calls?
<diddledan> bigcalm: that's what I'm wondering
<diddledan> if I use it do I get charged? if not who does?
<bigcalm> Who would charge you if nobody wants to talk to you?
<diddledan> exactly
<bigcalm> davmor2: come to tonight's LUG. It's getting a little too quiet
<diddledan> 17070 gave me the number so I could give it out to folk
<davmor2> bigcalm: can't this week see email I just sent, hoping to get there next time though, what's this about interbiz ?
<bigcalm> davmor2: he's got himself a job doing PostgreSQL in London. He'll be back up occasionally though
<davmor2> bigcalm: :(  man how is the sweetmiester going to cope now ;)
<bigcalm> Those to, Amo and I went for a meal on Monday evening. All seemed well. I'm glad working for a friend and then leaving the company didn't sour things for them
<bigcalm> s/to/two
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah I don't think he would of left under a cloud and I doubt adam would of been prepared to up the wages to London prices.
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Make a call. Wait for the bill. Call the name at the company at the top of the bill.
<TwistedLucidity> Bear in mind that a lack of landline might affect your home value should you want to sell.
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: it's apparently still owned by sky - calling 150 gives a prompt that "you're through to sky. to help...."
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Ah. Then talk to Sky. :-)
<diddledan> rented :-p
<diddledan> I'm talking to them now
<TwistedLucidity> Landlord?
<diddledan> housing assoc
<TwistedLucidity> My tenant is leaving my property and coming the city I currently live in. Ironic.
<Laney> coming to exact revenge for the rat infestation? :)
<MartijnVdS> *waiting for the UPS man*
<zmoylan-pi> in the time it took to type that he's left a while you were out card at your front door...
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: some famous people complained about that. Now they all actually try to get you to open the door for a while :)
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: in case you're a celebrity xD
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: what happens when they find out you're not a celeb?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: they still ask for my signature
<zmoylan-pi> then they let your packages be handled by the angry gorilla department
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: it's Dell's insurance paying for that I guess :P
<davmor2> diddledan: we are all infamous hackers just ask our friends at GCHQ and the NSA.......biab knock at the door.........ruuuuunnnnnnnnnnnn the black vaaaaaannnnnnnnnns arrrrrrrrreeeeeeeee ccccccommmmmmmmmmminng
<MartijnVdS> Vans? Oh good, then that helicopter on the horizon isn't something to worry about
<diddledan> o_O
<zmoylan-pi> siily davmor2, the helicopters are black the vans are white to blend in
<bashrc_> partyvan?
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: adfffffdaasslkfdjslk meow no-one here but us cats as;dflkasldkskjfdfj meow
<zmoylan-pi> hmmmm, a cat acknowledging a humans existance.... seems suspect...
<bashrc_> can I remove the tinfoil yet?
 * zmoylan-pi takes reading from thermometer attached to bashrc_.... no, another 20 minutes....
<diddledan> toasty
<bashrc_> basting
<awilkins> Dumb question : anyone know a code syntax highlighter that will do IRC colour sequences?
<zmoylan-pi> emacs? some learning required... :-p
<awilkins> I guess one of the webby ones can be mangled into doing it
<davmor2> awilkins:  hexchat and irssi I think are all capable with plugin's but I guess it depends on the programming language, I would assume others could too maybe look up <specific_programming_language> highlight plugin for <irc_client_of_choice>
<MartijnVdS> whoa.. the laptop starts with some Ubuntu animation thing
<MartijnVdS> and a tiiiiiiiny mouse cursor
<awilkins> Which laptop?
<MartijnVdS> xps13
<awilkins> Shiny
<awilkins> Is that in BIOS or part of the boot sequence?
<MartijnVdS> I think it's part of the OEM/firstboot sequence
<awilkins> Hmm, it's on offer
<awilkins> That's annoying, you can't change the RAM
<awilkins> Or much of anything
<awilkins> Just 2 editions
<MartijnVdS> yeah.. I have the 8
<MartijnVdS> 8GB/512GB one, i7
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> That's the nice one, apart from the touchscreen
<MartijnVdS> you can disable that :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: matt or touch-screen?
<awilkins> Anything that encourages folk to touch my screen is anaethema
<MartijnVdS> it's touch.. only way to get 3200x1800
<zmoylan-pi> some people have the grubbiest hands
<awilkins> I swear my boss intentionally bullies me by touching my screen and leaving marks on purpose
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: grub maintainers mostly
<MartijnVdS> the letters in the vttys are so TINY
<awilkins> Not sure I could cope with the teensy 11 inch form factor
<awilkins> Is the keyboard a normal size or a bit cramped?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I don't think there are that "TINY" that would be huge if they were that size :P
<MartijnVdS> keyboard feels OK
<MartijnVdS> but I'm used to the XPS12 from last year for work
<MartijnVdS> so..
<czajkowski> Laney: over here more UK centric conversation :) interesting to see Harman is anti Sunday trading!
 * zmoylan-pi remembers when sunday shopping was gardening centres and diy only...
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: ah I did learn how to drive ona  sunday with shopping centres being closed
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: biggest culture shock moving to UK was shops closing so early on a Sunday
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I remember the diy sotres opening the gardening bits to get around the sunday laws so they could open :)
<zmoylan-pi> same here, i learned in sandyford industrial estate.  it was empty
<shauno> I learnt to drive on the a590.  not the best idea any of us ever had
<diplo> Get a nexus 7 here ( my mums ) slow as hell, anyone know if a factory reset and reinstall apps may improve things?
<diplo> Not really played with tablets much
<popey> 2012 or 2013?
<diplo> It's definitely slower once connected to the wifi though
<czajkowski> popey: see pm please :)
<diplo> hah that was going to be another question, how do i find that out :D
<zmoylan-pi> but how many apps are trying to run while wifi is there?  see task manager
<popey> hold it portrait
<popey> turn it round
<popey> is the word "nexus" the right way up or sideways?
<popey> 2012 nexus 7 is portrait, 2013 nexus 7 is landscape
<diplo> Right way up
<popey> has a grey edge around the tablet?
<diplo> So 2012 :)
<diplo> yeah
<popey> yeah, 2012
<popey> they are notoriously slow
<popey> Mine got a bit faster by doing a factory reflash
<popey> and then re-install a small number of things
<popey> but it will never be fast
<popey> czajkowski: kk
<diplo> ah ok thanks, will give my mum that option
<MartijnVdS> 3200x1800 is so.. *drool*
<bujji> how can i get vm
<bujji> for ubuntu
<diplo> Probably need to explain what you are after bujji ?
<diplo> Virtualbox is virtual machine software, or kvm
<bujji> ?
<diplo> Or do you mean an image
<bujji> virtual machine
<bujji> kvm?
<diplo> So you can run one with VirtualBox
<MooDoo> Install virtualbox, then just install a machine as you would normally :D
<bigcalm> bujji: I would suggest you start out with VirtualBox
<shauno> I think you need to expand on the question, not the terminology.  you tend to have incredibly vague requests which makes it difficult to answer
<MooDoo> https://www.virtualbox.org/
<MooDoo> I use virtual box for my kali linux install
<bujji> for ubuntu i want to install virtual box like vmware
<bujji> for this i need image as well.
<MooDoo> bujji: http://virtualboxes.org/images/ubuntu/
<MooDoo> http://www.osboxes.org/ubuntu/ or this
<awilkins> bujji, You don't need an image as well - you can just use an Ubuntu ISO and stick it in the virtual CDROM drive of your virtual machine and install it
<awilkins> Or download one of those handy pre-made images
<MooDoo> i don't think he wants to install just have one running :(
<bujji> MooDoo:i do)))
<bujji> kvm ?
<awilkins> Start with Virtualbox
<awilkins> It has a nice GUI and it's easy to use
<shauno> if you're expecting vmware, virtualbox will be closer to what you're expecting
<MooDoo> yeah kvm will do it, but that's a more advanced tool, you want one like vmware use virtualbox
<MooDoo> I use it on a daily basis :D
<awilkins> Yup, I keep my captive pet Windows in a Virtualbox VM
<MooDoo> kali here :D
<bujji> okey
<awilkins> I only keep it for business reasons
<awilkins> Frickin' Office
<bujji> kali linux?
<bujji> is that kali is a virtual box
<MooDoo> bujji: it's for penetration testing
<MooDoo> bujji: yes i run kali linux in a virtualbox
<bujji> MooDoo:this one https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads
<awilkins> That's the one
<bigcalm> bujji: sudo apt-get install virtualbox
<MooDoo> yes that's the one, as I'm running vivid and 64bit you download the relavent one
<MooDoo> bigcalm: ooooo didn't know it was packaged.....doh!
<awilkins> bigcalm, the repository version is quite old
<bigcalm> True, but still works
<MooDoo> bujji: download it from that site
<bujji> bigcalm:if i do that where i can find
<MooDoo> dont't forget to downloadd VirtualBox 4.3.28 Oracle VM VirtualBox Extension Pack as well so you can get usb support
<awilkins> Installs a desktop item, just open the dash and type "virtual" (presuming you use a Unity desktop)
<bujji> who is working here linux admin
<bujji> thank you for all your response here.
<mapps> oh my
<mapps> wokeup drippng in sweat again
<mapps> 35c
<mapps> arghh
 * mapps isn't used to this weather
<diddledan> so, you know there's a crime of "perverting the course of justice"? well can we prosecute the european commission for such due to the human rights act?
<shauno> how so?
<diddledan> i.e. they enacted the act so we get to sue them for perverting the course of justice
<diddledan> how many crims have failed to be convicted due to the human rights act now?
<diddledan> surely that's perversion of justice's course, no?
<mapps> hm
<mapps> lots
<shauno> that sounds like a rather one-sided view
<awilkins> I'd prefer them to focus on the criminals who aren't even prosecuted because they work in a place with nice letterheads than the few criminals who benefit in some way from everyone having rights
<shauno> I just think the UK is authoritarian enough already, without needing to go so far as to admit they're the only country in europe that believes humans have too many rights
<mapps> breeze from the sea is so nie
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> nice
<DJones> Anybody know if there are any rules on how much pain I inflict on the "git" that smashed my car window to pinch an obsolete tomtom when I see them next
<mapps> you know who it was?!
<DJones> No, but they're caught on cctv doing it
<DJones> If he gets caught at work, it won't be a pretty sight, he'll have a choice of being dropped into the molten rubber vat, or going in the oven with the remould tyres being baked
<shauno> that could be messy, I'd expect humans to saponify rather than galvanize
<DJones> Probably just look like a skeleton in tight scuba gear
<shauno> creepiest bar of soap ever?
<shauno> if you really want an IANAL, I do believe your actions can't exceed a reasonably proportional response to the threat you're facing at that time.  you can't post-date it
<davmor2> DJones: no just make im pay your inflated insurance renewals for the next 10 years
<DJones> shauno: It won't be post-dated, it'll be ongoing, ie they started it, we'll finish it
<DJones> It'll be the same incident,  just over time
<popey> also, don't tell everyone what you plan on a publicly logged irc channel
<popey> imo
<DJones> That can be dealt with :)
<DJones> ooop's they fell in the vat of boiling rubber.......
<diddledan> ebenink
<daftykins> hello sir
<daftykins> what's new?
<diddledan> just discovered this: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/AlexsNewsandReviews/news/?a=98494
<mapps> 8 weeks and still no bank stuff
<mapps> i was told june 11th
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> i was told it would be 'slow' nothing gets done fast here
<daftykins> hah, nice
<daftykins> hey mapps instead of using those rubbish unreliable Pis of yours, you should setup a digital ocean VPS for $3/mo like i did
<daftykins> super reliable, nice static IP... could run IRC on it too...
<zmoylan-pi> i run irc on my pi fine...
<daftykins> that's not what i said
<daftykins> he uses his for a VPN endpoint :>
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure it's been done too on a pi
<MooDoo> evening
<zmoylan-pi> but the pi is a little weak on the networking side as it has a slow network port.  if you have access to really great broadband it would show up
<MooDoo> hmmm let me think pay money or run it for free ;)
 * zmoylan-pi likes MooDoo's logic :-)
 * MooDoo is interfering sorry lol
<daftykins> well his keeps going down, so if you'd actually consider the facts here before jumping the gun...
<zmoylan-pi> well if it keeps going down then he's motivated to learn more to fix it
<daftykins> i don't think it's an issue with the setup software wise
<MooDoo> I'm lucky I have 2 x 1u servers that have kvm on them with gluster so I can run my irc from vms on that
 * zmoylan-pi is looking at replacing my oldest system (6yo slow netbook with 1gb ram) with some bargain basement special from argos before all the win10 systems come along...
<daftykins> why before?
<zmoylan-pi> 1) because i won't know how easy it will be to install linux on a win10 system where i can't turn off secure boot 2) argos are end of catalog and systems are been dumped cheap :-)
<daftykins> what makes you believe secure boot won't be possible to disable?
<daftykins> also, seen those cheap AMD ubuntu systems on ebuyer?
<zmoylan-pi> no credit card so need to walk into shop to purchase
<zmoylan-pi> and win10 dropped requirement for secure boot to be able to be turned off. i suspect it will gradually be phased out so trying to snag one i can turn off for sure
<daftykins> not even a debit card 0o
<zmoylan-pi> nopee
<daftykins> just an ATM one?
<zmoylan-pi> no bank account
<daftykins> wat
<daftykins> so piles of cash under the mattress eh? :>
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/politics/100000-adults-in-ireland-have-no-bank-account-161470.html
<zmoylan-pi> a few years back we had a minister for finance who admitted they had no bank account...
<daftykins> nice
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: get a thinkpad x220/x230
<ali1234> probably cheaper than anything argos sells
<daftykins> hmm on xubuntu the fields on this online payment form are all laid out funny and you can't click 'next' in yellow, is that the same for anyone else? http://www.gsygas.com/pay-online/
<zmoylan-pi> and does one know of a shop in dublin selling them? :-)
<ali1234> daftykins: yes but it's unlikely to be anything directly to do with xubuntu
<ali1234> daftykins: in firefox, ctrl-shift-+ until the form fits inside that brown rectangle
<daftykins> nah i just stated that due to default packages present
<ali1234> it's something to do with <div> overflows or something
<daftykins> ah good call, i just went into a field and hit enter, that worked too
<ali1234> possibly related to font sizes
<ali1234> "the www"
<daftykins> nothing to contact them about then? :)
<ali1234> they are unlikely to fix it
<ali1234> contact them, if you like talking to a brick wall :)
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> although, if they are a Guernsey company you might just get the CEO
<daftykins> weirdly, they seem to have a call center on the isle of man O_O
<daftykins> they ask you which island when calling in these days :D
<ali1234> web design company is also Guernsey
<daftykins> perhaps i should test a clean profile first tum te tum
<ali1234> it works okay in chrome
<ali1234> this could actually be a firefox bug
<ali1234> <div id="rightcol"> is the culprit in any case
<ali1234> anything that completely overflows outside of it can't be interacted with
<ali1234> forcing it to shrink in chrome has the same effect so it's not a firefox bug
<daftykins> ooh novel
<daftykins> diddledan: seen this before? ^
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181791750274
<popey> cheapo
<popey> they charge via usb I thought, so not having a charger isn't a biggie?
<ali1234> yeah but if they normally come with one you gotta mention it on the listing, or risk the buyer complaining to ebay
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-09
<daftykins> i hope those mother spiders don't push out too many little babies, i've already despatched 50 in my bathroom :S
<mapps>  hi all
<daftykins> lo
<mapps> ';]
<mapps> scream tv series isnt too bad;D
<daftykins> you should buy a bike and give the TV a rest! :>
<mapps> lol well apartments so small where would i put it
<mapps> i find it weird how people keep bikes in their lounge lol
<daftykins> wherever it fits \o/
<daftykins> at the office :D
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> hmm ordered some phone cases that don't fit, gotta pop them back in the post box today
<daftykins> the ebay seller said just to mark them 'return to sender' 0o
<mapps> maybe he has some special business ac
<mapps> so you can do that and it just charges him?
<mapps> angels game bases loaded 2 out 2-1 count hm
<daftykins> i'd have thought the standard PO lets you do that though
<daftykins> ah that reminds me
<daftykins> Royals won today \o/
<mapps> surely not tho
<mapps> as if i send to you and you put rts on it
<mapps> surely they wont send it back to me for free
<daftykins> guess i've never done it to know
<knightwork> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning
<knightwork> morning moodoo, how are you today
<MooDoo> knightwork: come into work and a printer isn't working that's a high volume printer, other than that ok :D lol
<knightwork> ouch , not a good thing .
<knightwork>  hmm.. i need to install my old raspberry pi into my DMZ to run some apps and services so I can reach them from the web
 * awilkins has a Pi2 running his Redmine server
<awilkins> Ugh, my co-worker is asking for a copy of my Windows VM
<awilkins> Have impressed upon him the lack of legality of cloning a Windows VM with no license key
<awilkins> Well, I have a license key. I paid for it.
<knightwork> awilkins: Im running a lot of apps over SSH but work don"t allow that port out from the firewall
<knightwork> so i'm thinking of opening up an https web based shell
<awilkins> You could just get SSH to listen on a different port that they do allow out...
<awilkins> Or think up a convincing reason why you need outbound SSH access :-)
<knightwork> hmm.. i could try porting the SSH port to 443
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: I have a song in my head....It goes "Startreking across the universe, in the us enterprise, under captain Kirk"
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: Has Haley got a job that starts early or something and she is waking you up?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> davmor2: :P
<popey> knightwork: i used to run ssh on 443 when I was behind a proxy/firewall, worked fine
<MooDoo> davmor2: can't you find reverse?
<davmor2> MooDoo: release week there is only forwards
<MooDoo> lol :D
<knightwork> popey: portable putty to 443 , that should work i guess .. no ?
<knightwork> unless they run a protocol based firewall and not a port based firewall
<shauno> 443 used to work for us, until they moved to a https proxy mess.  "suck it and see" is really the only way to find out
<knightwork> I can basically forward 2 ports on the outside to one port on the inside
<diplo> I do this for a friend for his machine at my work, opened 443 as he only has 80 and 443 available out of his work
<popey> corkscrew works well
<popey> A Z88 just arrived here :)
<shauno> I ended up just getting a 3g dongle for the office.  'my stuff' lives on my laptop on my connection, and work stuff, on their machine on their network.  the less the two meet, the better
<davmor2> popey: oh spectrum are making computers again ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Sugar Cookie Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: \o/ finally a day to actually celebrate \o/
<JamesTait> davmor2, and totally on-topic as well!
<davmor2> JamesTait: if anyone every tells you that cookies are not on-topic slap them they need the shock to brink them back to their senses ;)
<davmor2> s/every/ever
<JamesTait> s/brink/bring
<davmor2> JamesTait: meh you know what I mean :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I'm so used to you spotting my mistakes, I couldn't resist the opportunity to turn the tables. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: meh I'll just prod your code latter an make you cry
<JamesTait> I know.
<davmor2> later even
<davmor2> see you missed one :P
 * JamesTait sighs
<JamesTait> And so it begins.
<JamesTait> ð
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBkBS4O3yvY so funny
<popey> yeah, i enjoyed that
<davmor2> popey: not used to seeing jimmy from ncis without his glasses though :)
<foobarry> how can i jump to a previous point in time on a prolific users twitter feed? i want to see a tweet they posted in 2014, and search isn't finding it
<foobarry> and scrolling is taking forever
<awilkins> Does twitter even retain data for that long?
<awilkins> foobarry, You could use an API I suppose
<davmor2> foobarry: open you browser, in the url/google search put site:<twitter_feed> search term that should trim it down a little
<davmor2> and then hope twitter keeps things from that far back
<popey> https://twitter.com/search-advanced?lang=en
<popey> has date selection
<foobarry> thanks popey that works well :D
<diplo> directhex: I use syncthing on my droid phones for images, as soon as it comes into range it syncs them off, same with music
<diplo> Running 15.04 here and no issues at all with MTP though ( LG G2 )
<bigcalm> My machine had been randomly freezing a few mins after booting. In fear that it was the ram giving out, I upgraded it to the max of 16gb. It hadn't frozen again until this morning and I feared the worse. Turned out, this time, that the battery in my mouse had died. Hope I didn't throw 100 quid down the drain for a dead mouse battery
<diplo> lol
<directhex> XD
<directhex> i can beat that
<awilkins> The MS bots in the channel are now reporting this to their superiors
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Not sure it was nice to laugh, but it did actually make me chuckle
<awilkins> "Hey, great idea, how about we keep the Windows licence key in volatile RAM ... in the mouse?"
<directhex> i bought my first TFT monitor, a Â£400 15" iiyama, because my old monitor stopped displaying anything
<directhex> after the order was placed, I twiddled the contrast knob...
<awilkins> hahahaa
<bigcalm> Nice!
<bigcalm> One way to force yourself into an upgrade
<awilkins> I had to upgrade my OS because I installed a game that needed a newer version for the DRM components...
<awilkins> ... upgraded from Win2k ... to Vista
<awilkins> <puke emoticon>
<diplo> God Vista was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad
<awilkins> Have you noticed that puke emoticons seem to have completely vanished?
<zmoylan-pi> i only upgraded from win2000 when itunes stopped working on it.  last version of windows i liked.  made me switch to mac and then linux
<diplo> Still on Skype/MSN awilkins :)
<awilkins> Android is too good-twoshoes to have it
<zmoylan-pi> a mate bought a vista laptop cheap.  512mb of ram... shared with video... slow... took 8 hours to remove and install broken antivirus and updates
<awilkins> Win2k was great
<zmoylan-pi> lite fast, configurable
<zmoylan-pi> and no activation silliness
<diplo> Found a couple if discs for it the other day :)
<zmoylan-pi> i have a few discs for it i burned... somewhere
<MooDoo> i think i have a copy of atleast all ms install discs, probably in a safe place somewhere
<awilkins> MSDN Libraries for the win
<awilkins> Always a useful source of install disks
<MooDoo> yup that's how i've got the disks :D
<MooDoo> technet for me though
<shauno> coco pops for breakfast, coco pops for lunch .. working from home has made me realise why everyone was going nuts for those little snackbox-by-mail things a couple of years back
<zmoylan-pi> nah you need smarties in a bowl covered in milk...
<popey> mmm cow juice
<shauno> as long as they're chocolate cows :)
<zmoylan-pi> cocomoo
<awilkins> I got some of that Joylent stuff
<awilkins> It fills in the gaps very nicely when you're too lazy to cook
<foobarry> is that like soylent?
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> It's the euro version of Soylent
<shauno> I tried that for a while too.  doesn't work too bad when it's just replacing a meal or two a day.  not sure I could live on the stuff
<shauno> eg, I usually have cooked breakfast & lunch at work, so it wasn't a bad way to lazy out of dinner
<shauno> I think the only problem I really had was that I got sick of strawberry flavour quite quickly
<awilkins> I got the special edition "Green"Â£
<awilkins> It was apple flavour. Wasn't happy that they made it green by adding blue and yellow food colouring though
<shauno> I got a mixed pack because I couldn't decide.  turned out to be a good idea I think.  not sure I could stick on any one flavour for days at a time
<awilkins> Vanilla was boring
<zmoylan-pi> is joylent green made of people? :-)
<shauno> I do believe it's less than 40% people
<zmoylan-pi> is it made of vegetarians?
<shauno> people-flavour would be interesting I think.  I guess it should be vaguely like cured ham?
<shauno> and it'd sure as heck get them back in the press
<daubers> shauno: That'll vary from person to person
<shauno> how so?
<zmoylan-pi> mmmm a little of everything... :-) https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/12.jpg
<daubers> shauno: bad futurama reference
<daubers> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0584439/quotes
<shauno> ahh
<shauno> I actually ended up calling it 'slurm'
<shauno> there's another one floating around now too, called 'huel'.  haven't tried it, but they claim to be nutritionists
<shauno> the guy behind joylent is overly honest.  he claims to have read some stuff on the internet
<foobarry> slurm is a resource scheduler
<foobarry> i have a slurm tshirt
<zmoylan-pi> did it come with a brainslug hat? :-)
<foobarry> i have a redhat redhat
<foobarry> its a fedora
<zmoylan-pi> i have a tux baseball cap
<zmoylan-pi> got it back in days of red hat 5.2...
<foobarry> anyone use irssi libnotify?
<foobarry> i have a redhat cap too
<foobarry> 2 actually
<foobarry> and a few plush tuxes
<zmoylan-pi> i have 1-2 penguin toys about the place from penguin pencil parer to penguin ash tray and squeaky toy penguin
<popey> i tried libnotify
<popey> but didn't enjoy it, so use irssinotifier
<popey> irssinotifier+ in fact
<zmoylan-pi> the squeaky toy penguin is great of linux meetups as it's just right size to fit on table and the amount of geeks who enjoy making it squeak
<foobarry> popey: libnotify got a rewrite
<foobarry> https://github.com/stickster/irssi-libnotify
<popey> that presumes irssi locally?
<popey> oh, ew, ssh back from my server, no
<davmor2> popey: what you need is a byobu plugin that has a big red alert at the bottom with the irssi details :)
<popey> that presumes i have irssi on top of other windows
<popey> which if it is, i dont need any nofitifcations
<popey> if it isn't then I wont see that
<davmor2> popey: what you need is a robotic arm that slaps you everytime I ping you let me work on that :P
 * foobarry confused
<foobarry> If you are running irssi remotely, currently your remote machine
<foobarry> account would need to be able to SSH back to your local box without a
<foobarry> passphrase.
<foobarry> ah
<foobarry> meh, thats unsatisfactory
<foobarry> how does notifier+ work
<foobarry> is that your phone?
<popey> android tablet on my desk
<popey> like a second screen
<foobarry> actually for most purposes i do run irssi locally
<foobarry> so this could work OK for me
<popey> i guess i could run irssi locally and proxy through irssi on my server
<foobarry> i don't like having to keep irssi visible, it makes me OCD
<foobarry> can it do that? like a client?
<davmor2> popey: you can run irssi proxy, have it email you whenever you get a ping, then you could run irssi locally and connect to irssi proxy and have it libnotify
<popey> shush
<popey> yes, you can run irssi remotely and just ssh in and use it in screen
<popey> but also load the proxy module and connect in from another copy of irssi elsewhere
<popey> tempted, did that before, can't recall why I stopped
<foobarry> might look into that
<diddledan> allo folks
<davmor2> popey: proxy mode is what I use with xchat as a client to it.  I just don't like how irssi handles tabs
<shauno> that's pretty much exactly what I do.  got a script that pushes msgs to my phone if I'm /away
<davmor2> shauno: I have it push to email then I get a ping on my tablet and I check dekko on my phone fairly often because I'm sad :)
<foobarry> linux voice latest free download had a big section on irc clients
<daubers> popey: just train one of your cats to tell you when someone notifies you on irc?
<zmoylan-pi> they'll pounce on your face at 3am when someone pings you...
 * diddledan pings zmoylan-pi 
<diddledan> 16:01 -!- CTCP PING reply from zmoylan-pi: 1.1869985 seconds
<zmoylan-pi> the cats here are smarter than that.  i thank the gods for nerf :-)
<foobarry> WFH means that i have checked facebook less than normal
<nigelb> foobarry: WFH means you work more hours too.
<nigelb> It's hard to stop.
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: the thumb cat regime is coming for you armed to the hilt with mega nerf's ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i have mega nerf too
<diddledan> thumbcats are evil!
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: there are more of them :P
<zmoylan-pi> the local cat population loyal to me will swing the battle in my favour
<foobarry> cats are loyal to nothing
<diddledan> foobarry: except the overthrow of humanity
<foobarry> if that happened, they would then overthrow other cats. just like all the revolutionaries
<diddledan> why do the press think that microsoft are going to include caveats on their "upgrades for the life of the device" promise
<diddledan> the latest is that a presentation includes the text "Revenue allocated is deferred and recognized on a straight-line basis over the estimated period the software upgrades are expected to be provided by estimated device life, which can range from two to four years." which several sites say means that windows will suddenly stop working somewhere between 2 and 4 years
<diddledan> it sounds to me like the presentation is detailing how MS will calculate profit
<shauno> because they already have ?
<diddledan> rather than "we won't let people use windows until they pay moar"
<shauno> "we will continue to keep it current via Windows Update for the supported lifetime of the device - at no cost."
<shauno> "supported lifetime" _is_ a caveat.
<diddledan> shauno: exactly, at no cost - these sites say after 2-4 years you have to pay
<shauno> well, I guess we have to wait to find out what a "supported lifetime" is to figure that out
<shauno> it could very well be 2-3 years if it's a warranty lifetime
<shauno> I can understand them waiting for the fine print, is all :)
<diddledan> they're not waiting tho - they're announcing "OMG THE END IS NEIGH (in 2-4 years)"
 * p42phone waits at Euston for a train back to civilisation
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> that's scaryville
<diddledan> :-p
<p42phone> More concrete vil
<ali1234> the thing is literally nobody upgrades windows on computers any more
<ali1234> in fact they go out of their way to avoid it
<ali1234> people only upgrade because they got a new computer
 * p42phone has spent the last 4 days at project meetings but at least the weather has been nice to walk around in the evenings
<shauno> this rolling release thing might actually help that, I think
<ali1234> yes that is clearly the point
<ali1234> patching windows xp for 10 years or whatever must have been expensive
<ali1234> that cost probably exceeded the revenue for windows xp -> vista upgrade licenses
<diddledan> daftykins: new build today
<daftykins> AGAIN!?
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> something super duper exciting happened today!
<diddledan> oh?
<daftykins> excuse the URL but it allows avoidance of dropbox's fail...
<daftykins> https://photos-4.dropbox.com/t/2/AADMovkkWIZ9Hz-ZDMvYbMzTqhfbuoXWjwCz-gU0uU4iKw/12/54276969/jpeg/32x32/1/1436475600/0/2/IMG_20150709_110715.jpg/COnm8BkgASACIAMgBCAFIAYgBygCKAc/wvL-usNa_J8UEIZRFhNzyqKEoI5gbQVuVrfs7VNcogU?size=1280x960&size_mode=2
<daftykins> my bike parts came \o/
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> now to build a steam-powered spider
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> more bike porn will be shared later
<diddledan> I really loved that film
<daftykins> wild wild west?
<diddledan> I liked the steampunkyness
<diddledan> yeah
<daftykins> saw my dad watching it once, but never seen
<diddledan> it's one that I can imagine the critics hated
<diddledan> critics seem unable to have fun
<diddledan> they for some reason need arty farty stuff
<diddledan> like a person acting as a tree
<daftykins> indeed, muchly flawed
<diddledan> the kind of stuff that you imagine drama school to be encouraging
<diddledan> like interpretive dance
<daftykins> *shudder*
<diddledan> indeed
<daftykins> that made me think back to having forced drama lessons in secondary school
<diddledan> I like a jolly good romp
<daftykins> every time: "now i want you all to..."
<daftykins> <me> wat
<diddledan> yeah back in school.. those things were evil - in our school it was so inane that the teacher wasn't the one driving the lesson - the lesson was a recorded radio4 programme
<daftykins> wow
<daftykins> did the teacher normally take a real subject?
<diddledan> yeah these were in primary school so we had the same teacher for everything. we had separate teachers in secondary school - that was more sane
<daftykins> ah yes
<diddledan> I didn't mind secondary school drama becasue we did proper acting
<daftykins> said Sir Patrick Stewart
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I really love patrick's shakespearian delivery of cpt picard
<diddledan> it really made the series for me
<diddledan> I thought he was awesome
<diddledan> he also wasn't averse to the overacting that is required for startrek :-p
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> guy we know over in upstate NY has been repairing sewing machines of late
<daftykins> got to say "make it sew" for real ;_;
<shauno> best worst delivery of a frenchman ever?
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> shauno: haha
<daftykins> i like to think he was just named by a cruel person and moved somewhere foolish
 * daftykins whistles
<shauno> actually, that's what I might do this evening.  I gave up after search for spock the other night
<daftykins> i watched them all in order recently, does seem to not be worth it after that :>
<shauno> and entirely regretted it when I had to sit through a two hour conference call on changes in the complaints process after having neglected to sleep :/
<diddledan> I've still not seen the starwarts eps 2 and 3, I really must watch the entire series of 6 (including jarjar stinks) in-order to get ready for ep7
<shauno> no no.  you must not.
<shauno> it's not worth it man
<daftykins> shauno: new policy, complaint = air lock -> space.
<shauno> spaaaaaaaaaaaace
<shauno> (Sorry)
<shauno> hm, I wonder if my netflix is still broken
<daftykins> i think everyones is... i hear they can remove content - with no warning! D:
<daftykins> :)
<foobarry> being over 40 hurts
<foobarry> my brain can't be bothered to read long man pages any more
<foobarry> like get-iplayer pvr features
<daftykins> i feel like man pages are written by engineers who really hate doing documentation
<diddledan> shauno: it's a good job netflix chose the right font: http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/be/84/89/be8489aee0a8076750e85f40f4942559.jpg
<daftykins> so they write it so you will hate them
<shauno> I don't have much problem with them removing content
<shauno> their irish offering much more suffers from never adding content in the first place
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> VPN o'clock? :) or other such sneaky tech
<shauno> right, that's what I mean by broken :)  the only real use for netflix here is if you "happen" to have a "broken" network config :)
<daftykins> hmm my mates mate hasn't fixed tvcatchup.com being geoIP banned here on the rocks yet :P
<diddledan> your mate's mate?!
<diddledan> you have friends in high places?????
<daftykins> runs the service :)
<diddledan> jeez, that's sneaky
<foobarry> get-iplayer --pvr doesn't seem to download anything or give errors
<daftykins> diddledan: the way tvcatchup avoids the regs?
<shauno> do you have anything in --pvr-list  ?
<foobarry> yes
<diddledan> daftykins: nah, knowing the guy
<foobarry> pvr-list looks weird actually
<daftykins> ah
<diddledan> o_O windows IoT for the pi has a few elf binaries
<daftykins> yeah pretty jammy :> although i don't watch TV
<foobarry> fixed the list, still no worky
<foobarry> can anyone share a working --pvr-list output?
<foobarry> is it case sensitive?
<shauno> hm, mine are all the correct case, but I suspect they were pasted from search results
<foobarry> ./get_iplayer --pvr-add=Morph "Morph" --tvmode=best --channel="CBeebies" --output "~/Videos/TV/Morph" --type=tv --fileprefix="<nameshort>-<senum>-<episodeshort>"
<davmor2> diddledan: I've met them, they help santa Juan and Nil
<foobarry> aaaagh its on CBBC
<foobarry> sorry
<foobarry> oh, still no worky
<diddledan> foobarry: what's the second Morph do?
<diddledan> --pvr-add=Morph "Morph"
<foobarry> one is the pvr name
<foobarry> second one is the search string
<diddledan> ok, try putting the search last
<davmor2> diddledan: those are the binary elves you're on about right :D
<foobarry> donesn't work still
<foobarry> sorry guys,
<foobarry> got it working now
<foobarry> i'd previously done a search/download of morph, and although it wasn't in the intended directory, it must have been cached somewhere that i'd downloaded before
<foobarry> tried the clangers and it worked
<foobarry> can't believe it took me so long to get round to this pvr mode
<jussi> Morning
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-10
<diddledan> microsoftie talking about users "self-blaming" when something goes wrong: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BadUXAndUserSelfBlameImSorryImNotAComputerPerson.aspx
<diddledan> it's a good read
<mapp> hi
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> lo
<mapp> hm
<mapp> quitw hot here again
<zmoylan-pi> [Dublin, DUB, Ireland] Condition: Mostly Cloudy | Temp: 15C/59F/288K/518R | Humidity: 88% | Wind Speed 9mph/14kmph
 * zmoylan-pi listens to seagulls outside... doesn't bode well for weather
<mapp> im smoking about 40/day  now
<mapp> argh
<MarkDude>  /join #opensuse-de
<mapp> welll  thats a bit of fun eh
<mapp> my sister got held at gunpoint a tottenham hale
<zmoylan-pi> hope she's ok
<mapp> yea she's fine///
<mapp> but what the hell
<mapp> she was with her boyfriend luckily
<zmoylan-pi> stuff nicked from them?
<mapp> just her bag and iphone
<mapp> who cares about that
<zmoylan-pi> there might be sentimental stuff in her bag
<mapp> i keep telling people london isnt the dream they think
<mapp> im glad to have left the uk
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think there's anywhere that's free of crime
<mapp> dad was traveling
<diddledan> amazingstoke. flip yeah!
<mapp> to stoke from euston
<mapp> and someone tried grabbing his bag
<mapp> he was a prison officer for 40 years....h isnt getting mugged off
<mapp> people are scum
<zmoylan-pi> some people are scum
<mapp> why cant people be nice
<diddledan> some people are nice
<mapp> told with my arabic i can come with or get lost
 * mapp speaks arabic
<MooDoo> morning all
<bujji> MooDoo:o/
<mapp> mrning
<mapp> what am i gonna do? seriously one of you must smoke
<mapp> i cant stop:(
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> I smoke mapp
<bujji> morning
<diplo> Haven't read up though, git a e-cig and cut down maybe if you can't just quit
<bujji> like sshpass -p ----- how cn i do it for sftp
<diddledan> care to elaborate your question, bujji ?
<mapp> morning diplo
<diddledan> allo diplo
<bujji> diddleadan:how can i pass password without automating password for ftp
<diddledan> bujji: you said sftp - that's not ftp. for sftp you should use an ssh-key
<bujji> diddledan:okey sftp
<diplo> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-ssh-keys--2
<diplo> bujji:
<diplo> Then you can just do scp file user@domain.tld:/path
<bujji> diplo:so how can i use that ssh key in sftp
<diplo> Read the documentation, it'll explain
<diplo> But basically, you create a key locally, you copy your public key to server and then you connect
<diplo> In very simple terms
<diplo> :)
<bujji> diplo :without automation
<diplo> No option afaik to pass a password to ssh over cli afaaik with a switch as it's not seure
<diplo> Could use a script to do it, but SSH keys are what you want
<bujji> sshpass -p <password> user@host ---this can connect?
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> there's no programme called sshpass
<diplo> ssThere is :)
<diplo> JHust looked myself
<bujji> diddledan:what arr?
<diplo> NAME sshpass - noninteractive ssh password provider
<diddledan> so there is
<diddledan> it's not default tho
<diplo> I've never installed it, but it's on my system
<mapp> ahhh damnit
<mapp> gotta get a flight for december
<mapp> se my sister and dad and that around Purley Way
<diplo> Never used it bujji, not sure why you want to use it as it's not overly secure ?
<diplo> You'll need to read it from a file or something, I'd still say ssh keys and nothing else
<diddledan> diplo: not installed here
<mapp> croydon again;( 3x in 5 years
<mapp> 3x too much
<diddledan> from sshpass package description: "SECURITY NOTE: There is a reason openssh insists that passwords be typed interactively. Passwords are harder to store securely and to pass around securely between programs. If you have not looked into solving your needs using SSH's "public key authentication", perhaps in conjunction with the ssh agent (RTFM ssh-add), please do so before being tempted into using this package."
<bujji> diplo:yes,if it stored in file which option should i use for sftp
<bujji> diddledan:yup
<bujji> but how can i use that one in sftp
<diddledan> bujji: it'll just work
<bujji> not sharing public key
<diddledan> public keys are meant to be shared
<diddledan> that's why they're called "public"
<bujji> diddledan:i dont want to share the public key how can i give password using options for sftp
<diddledan> why don't you want to share a public key?
<diplo> Basically it's telling you not to use it in the program itself
<bujji> diddledan:other way))
<diplo> bujji: Either use that program which i'd say not to or write a shell script to do it for you if you don't want to interact
<diplo> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5386482/how-to-run-the-sftp-command-with-a-password-from-bash-script
<diddledan> it's still "the wrong way" to do it
<diplo> First answer
<diplo> It sure is :)
<bujji> diplo:i will try))
<diplo> I still don't recommend it though bujji ssh-keys is what you want, I don't know why you don't want to use it
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> morning
<brobostigon> morning mapps
<diddledan> allo brobostigon
<diddledan> does anyone have any insight into what the timeline for ubuntu universal apps is (i.e. being able to run click mobile apps on the desktop and vice versa)
<brobostigon> hi diddledan
<diddledan> I've seen video of someone running libreoffice on a phone - that was a bit... ott methinks :-p
<davmor2> Morning all
<diddledan> hiya
<davmor2> and the song in my head this morning is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRfuAukYTKg
<diddledan> davmor2: do you get a song per morning?
<diddledan> methinks you should start making the morning playlist for us
<davmor2> diddledan: Pretty much some mornings it is the same one but on the whole I'll wake up with a chorus rattling around in my head
<diddledan> lol
<davmor2> diddledan: So over the weekend it was mostly songs from the Blues Brothers as we saw it again Friday Night :)
<diddledan> great movie
<davmor2> diddledan: My wife has seen it in bits but never the whole film start to finish and wanted to see it, how could I refuse her :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Donât Step On A Bee Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> as they have 30,000 mates who they can count on...
<popey> I have never seen Blues Brothers
<JamesTait> Really, popey? How come?
<davmor2> popey: shame on you, you have a week off and no excuse
<shauno> raised by wolves?
<zmoylan-pi> they broke his watch? :-)
<davmor2> diddledan: http://open.spotify.com/user/1142386698/playlist/2nlSxBLEbfKpvDqSDG8hP8 just for you :)
<JamesTait> Maybe just didn't fancy it. Musicals aren't everyone's cup of tea.
<zmoylan-pi> most musicals don't have such great music
<JamesTait> Very true.
<zmoylan-pi> performed by the people who originally made it
<DJones> JamesTait: To my horror, my wife loves musicals...Annie, High School Musical, Sound of music etc.......Earplug time
<diddledan> I have a penchant for musical theature
<diddledan> --u
<diddledan> really wanna see wicked
<diddledan> I'm not sure what's playing in the westend these days tho
<JamesTait> DJones, to be honest, most musicals get on my nerves.
<diplo> Rock of Ages was alright
<DJones> I don't mind some, Blue brothers etc, but less so the soppy/screaming kid type musicals
<zmoylan-pi> and most musicals don't have such great car chases...
<zmoylan-pi> with nazis...
<zmoylan-pi> illinois nazis...
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> that's impressive, windows update. it's installing update 6 of 1
<diddledan> 10 of 1
<diddledan> 17 of 1
<popey> 1e10
<diddledan> and now it's actually doing some downloading
<foobarry> went on roof to see the flypast
<diplo> Anyone recommend a tower server for running 5-6 small linux VM's locally for dev etc
<diplo> Bit out of the game now a days
<diplo> Just looking at the HP ML range atm
<foobarry> even a poweredge 2950 would be OK
<foobarry> get one free off a mate
<foobarry> although not a tower
<diplo> yeah used to use those, although they're very loud :D
<diplo> Good servers tbh
<diplo> Was thinking a tower with a few drives in raid10 with either kvm or esxi installed
<diplo> Just found one for Â£150, 4GB ram
<diplo> 2x146GB disks
<foobarry> nice
<davmor2> diddledan: that's a bunch of the ones I get on a regular basis to start it off I'll just add the morning song now :)
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> JamesTait: I know it's late I've been in meetings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-tl6GBOBo
<JamesTait> Any excuse, davmor2. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: but eddie rocks :)
<JamesTait> I can't argue with that.
<davmor2> I'm covered in beeeeeeeeeeees
<daftykins> new UPS battery \o/
<daftykins> even if i did have to call the courier back because his guy knocked and ran before i could answer - didn't even leave a note
<brobostigon> :(
<daftykins> ok must power off to fit!
<shauno> most of them you don't, if your comfortable with small sparks ;)
<diddledan> \o/ ???
<daftykins> yay UPS alive \o/
<diddledan> \o/ !!!
<daftykins> toughest part is dropping those batteries in and twisting the connector around so you can still close the compartment :P
<diddledan> my interwebs just went very wonky - my virgin modem just rebooted itself twice
<daftykins> i see gb.archive.ubuntu.com is having issues
<daftykins> ooh err
<diddledan> what's up with gb.archive?
<daftykins> i was just getting the odd squirt of 22 bytes per second tops
<bigcalm> diddledan: VM may have shot a firmware update at it
<daftykins> hmm sorted itself out actually, came down quick just now
<diddledan> hmm. butterfly
<diddledan> donno where he went but he's in my flat somewhere
<foobarry> check the butter
<popey> my cat likes butter
<popey> if we leave the butter dish out, I'll come back to it with the lid off and cat tonge lick-marks all over it
<popey> then vomit about 5 hours later
<popey> stupid cat
<foobarry> why the vomit
<foobarry> they aren't exactly lactose intolerant
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/mVMyQ
<daftykins> new bike bits \o/
<shauno> mmmmm bits
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we had to buy a special part to take one of my cranks off
<daftykins> because of the hollowtech... tech
<daftykins> but mm, very pleased - bike feels like new again
<daftykins> so nice and shiny ;_;
<davmor2> popey: don't leave it uncovered then :P
<popey> it isnt
<popey> he pushes the lid off
<davmor2> popey: hahaha
<popey> he's a cheeky little sod
<popey> I even put it on a high shelf out of reach
<popey> so i thought
<davmor2> daftykins: very nice is that an oversized large cog it looks bigger than normal
<davmor2> popey: http://open.spotify.com/track/3JyXdfM541SDijbzUQxk4R rave time ;)  I want to hear you woop woop from here :D
<TwistedLucidity> Urf, I need to get the bike in for a service. How you finding the build quality on the Specialized daftykins?
<daftykins> well i have two of them, but they're both a pretty penny - so i'd hope so :D
<daftykins> apparently the UK 'buntu mirrors have issues!
<popey> daftykins: can you be more specific? :)
<daftykins> <@moon127> daftykins: we're currently investigating an issue effecting our edge networks in the UK.
<popey> nice
<daubers> sounds edgey
<zmoylan-pi> release the pigeon backups!! \o/
<daftykins> sudo apt update --by-pigeon
<shauno> you've already given up on sheep?
<zmoylan-pi> well sheep don't do well in the summer as they instinctively head north were it's cooler...
<daftykins> so one might say that the sheep would be for my 'send' comms to England and pigeon would be 'receive'
<shauno> that seems inefficient.  I'd look for a french mirror so the pidgeon takes the request, not the body :)
<daftykins> we are pretty well peered with France :(
<zmoylan-pi> we could move all the shearing sheds to the north and the sheep would then naturally head south afterwards...
<davmor2> Omar Sharif is dead :(  man this year sucks
<daftykins> who is that?
<foobarry> i think he played bridge
<DJones> He rode a camel
<foobarry> he had a computer game
<foobarry> does firefox have a task manager
<zmoylan-pi> he played a great spy in one of the pink panther movies
<daftykins> foobarry: don't think so, things aren't per process yet
<foobarry> 30% cpu and 30% memz
<Azelphur> I'm starting to think monitor upgrade day is arriving...
<Azelphur> Getting real tempted to buy 3 of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMH-A399U-UHD-39-5-3840X2160-16-9-4K-LED-Monitor-60Hz-DP1-2-HDMI2-0-/221797445528?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a4286f98
<davmor2> Azelphur: wait for prime day on the 15th
<Azelphur> davmor2: yea probably should
<Azelphur> davmor2: that said, I believe that's the best panel money can buy right now, so anything prime day would have to be substantially cheaper
<shauno> 3 ... 39" screens?
<Azelphur> yes
<shauno> do you wear sunscreen?
<daftykins> weird size
<daftykins> i don't even like a clients 30" Dell @ 2560x1600
<shauno> I dunno, 39.5 is almost bang on 1 meter
<Azelphur> well I currently run on 4 x 27" 2k
<daftykins> presumably that is IPS
<Azelphur> think so
<diplo> Telegram under a ddos attack for anyone having issues
<diplo> https://twitter.com/telegram/status/619515927353278464
<daftykins> wat
<daftykins> oh
<diplo> Started 5 hours ago in India/East Asia
<diplo> Now global
 * arsenip_ prods daftykins 
<daftykins> oh 'lo
<daftykins> how do?
<arsenip> howdy :) good! you?
<daftykins> yeah not bad at all thanks ^_^
<daftykins> all the better for having my lovely bike fixed up and a new UPS battery in today \o/
<daftykins> just asking ebuyer for the VAT refund
<arsenip> hah cheeky
<arsenip> i need to ring apple really and ask for some discount post-purchase
<arsenip> not sure i cba
<daftykins> they do that o0
<arsenip> if you're a big company, they do
<arsenip> i can just pretend.
<arsenip> (work)
<daftykins> ah har
<arsenip>  
<arsenip>  
<arsenip> w
<arsenip> oops.
<mapps> hi all
<daftykins> lo
<mapps> gonna go to NY in november
<mapps> just to work out how
<daftykins> go on holiday there just to work out how you get there? :)
<mapps> no i mean
<mapps> do i fly gib -> uk uk-ny
<mapps> or taxi to Malaga (Â£100)
<daftykins> O_O
<arsenip> you're in gib?
<arsenip> you can prols fly to madrid -> ny?
<arsenip> flying via heathrow is pretty pricey, heathrow has some of the highest landing taxes iirc
<arsenip> most of my flyboy mates (pilots for oneworld) always visit the UK by flying to holland first, cant exactly remmeber why
<davmor2> mapps: gib frankfurt newyork
<bigcalm> Hey davmor2, guess what?
<davmor2> bigcalm: You got a job in London?
<bigcalm> I'm stiff working :)
<bigcalm> stiff?
<bigcalm> Still!
<bigcalm> ffs
<bigcalm> Na, happy where I am. Just don't know how to stop
<davmor2> bigcalm: I was stuck in the QE all day Tuesday I still don't know what a 40 hour week is :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: and by all day, We headed out to them at 0700 and got back home 2145
<popey> bigcalm: me too
<davmor2> popey: yeah but you are under a pub table from Monday onwards so I have no sympathy with you ;)
<popey> hah
<davmor2> it's the 20,000 emails the following Monday with a hangover I want to see popey :D
<popey> i might just send you an email each day from holiday
<popey> with a photo of me by the pool
<popey> actually, how will I get photos off my dslr
<popey> hmmmm
<popey> i reckon i can use a card reader and my arale
<davmor2> use your phone and dekko
<diddledan> popey: you going anywhere nice?
<popey> outside :)
<MartijnVdS> eww outside
<diddledan> eep
<popey> i may be some time
<davmor2> popey: Don't leave wifi range, there is nothing else todo but talk to people
<zmoylan-pi> display pics on cameras screen.  put on photocopier. fax page to mate at home to post online :-)
<mapps> lol at all the idiot brits crying about being told to leave tunisia
<mapps> only an idiot would go there
<mapps> let them stay and when things go wrong they'll be the first to cry
<zmoylan-pi> a terrorist attack is a statistical anomaly, you're still far more likely to be attacked by a shark.
<mapps> but still egyp/tunisia why go there..i wouldnt
<mapps> its just where the british chavs go
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: especially if you're on a dating site
<mapps> super cheap and hot
<diddledan> my sis went to egypt a year or so before they went to pot
<mapps> oh no
<mapps> why!
<mapps> its hot but still
<mapps> egypt/turkey/tunisia places ive never wanted to go
<davmor2> mapps: Pyramids and stuff
<zmoylan-pi> lots of pyramids in other parts of the world
<diddledan> I remember seeing the news of their crisis and thinking "thank god my sis isn't there now"
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yeah equally hot and dangerous
<zmoylan-pi> not all of them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid
<diddledan> so my disconnections earlier - seems there were two virgin vans outside at the time. wonder what they were doing? although a few weeks ago a different virgin team were digging up the road to lay moar fibre
<diddledan> I guess today's team were connecting that up
<zmoylan-pi> or wanted to be as far from the office on a friday afternoon :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> maybe virgin are gonna switch-on moar speeds
<davmor2> diddledan: bt are going ipv6 and increasing their speed so I would imagine so :)
<diddledan> davmor2: yeah I read bt are doing a teeny ipv6 trial today
<diddledan> limited to their staff atm afaict
<davmor2> diddledan: it's a start
<diddledan> I've not seen anything about speed-bumps tho
<davmor2> diddledan: I might of been dreaming but normally you get virgin just roll something out around the time that BT go all fanfare-esque and still can't match virgin :)
<diddledan> the only thing I don't like about cable vs vdsl is the relatively poor upload speeds of cable
<davmor2> diddledan: yeap virgin can crank that up anytime they want as well :)
<MartijnVdS> too bad you can't use TLS anymore soon :P
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: what?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/uk-governments-surveillance-plans-could-put-citizens-and-entire-internet-at-risk-argue-leading-computing-experts-10373940.html
<diddledan> these guys look cool: https://hyperoptic.com/
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: yeah it's codswollop he saying that any encryption should be hackable, the minute you turn around and say that means you too, and your family oh and your bank then they'll drop it.
<zmoylan-pi> if there's a secret key it's only a matter of time before someone else finds it and uses it
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: he has heard that bad people use encryption from an adviser and thought we'll have to put an end to that.  The thing is if every encryption algorithm has to have a backdoor it will be exploited by the hackers out there just look at the us government
<zmoylan-pi> they tried it will clipper chip in 90s
<davmor2> you'd only have to scare him with that and he'll uturn
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: so no more ssh!
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I hope so.. for everyone's sake
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I can see an adviser getting fired....well moved to another department :)
<bigcalm> What did daftykins do?
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> bigcalm: no ideaz
<diddledan> it's only a ban from here by the looks - he's still talking in #ubuntu
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> and unbanned again by the looks
<diddledan> no idea what that was about
<daftykins> weren't me, guv
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> daftykins: are you running winpho? if so there's a new build for win10pho toady
<daftykins> nah still clunking along on a Nexus 4 :)
<diddledan> and.. it's build 10166 - the desktop fast ring is also currently on 10166
<diddledan> PARITY!
<daftykins> ah yeah i didn't do that yet
<daftykins> tbh at this stage i only boot that spare machine to update
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I'm running win10 permanently now
<diddledan> have been for some time
<daftykins> i'm a little undecided about jumping on the final release bandwagon too quick, i'll want access to a 7 machine if i need to guide someone through something
<diddledan> yeah. might be worth getting a vmware or vbox setup running with an activated win7 that you can snapshot and rollback to be able to be able to upgrade many times
<daftykins> i definitely don't believe in upgrades so i'm hoping to get a nice ISO, murder the 8.1 flash drive i have then do the 'keep nothing' installs :)
<MarkDude>  /join #fronteers
<daftykins> whoops
<daftykins> diddledan: https://i.imgur.com/PR3lz0g.jpg
<diddledan> awwww <3
<daftykins> hmm i wonder if a client remembered to bring her old 2010 macbook pro home from Spain
<daftykins> still got mavericks on that sucker, shouldn't too long now for El Capitan eh?
<daftykins> +be
<diddledan> went public beta yesterday
<daftykins> indeedy!
<daftykins> i'd almost be curious about the new MS Office 2016 for her, but she has that Lenovo X1 Carbon now, so i think this old MBP is going to her sister
<MarkDude> Channel /joins are not an issue. It's the msg identify things that can be painful
<MarkDude> Or even worse when we see a person obviously type a password in the wrong window.
<MarkDude> Copy past is another reason to have two machines to use, many oops there :D
<daftykins> eh, it's what status windows are for
<MarkDude> True.
<daftykins> diddledan: installed the new build and updated my xbox one, i can test the video streaming feature now :D
<daftykins> i'm sure lovely wired gigabit will report favourably
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> 19 days till release!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> weird, when you run it, all it says is "If you can, connect your PC and Xbox One with a network cable"
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-11
<daftykins> bathroom spider kill count: 63
<zmoylan-pi> not a fan of spiders then...
<daftykins> a mother gave birth in my bathroom recently
<daftykins> that's how many babies i've found
<zmoylan-pi> are you releasing them outside where they're coming back in so it's the same spider been recounted?
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> they're all getting squashed, that's a genuine count
<zmoylan-pi> OR a spider with mutant powers of regeneration...
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i've had 8 at a time so there could be a small platoon that can swim
<zmoylan-pi> AND replication
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: daftykins: are they made of metal and have a penchant for eating technology?
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> thankfully they're not from Stargate
<zmoylan-pi> replicators!!! ::breaks out nerf shotgun::
<zmoylan-pi> the trick would be to lure them to a microsoft building and then shovel out the brain dead replicators later...
<daftykins> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> poor sods ate the vista dvd warehouse...
<diddledan> oh god
<diddledan> that's beyond evil
<diddledan> I don't think even replicators deserve that fate
<zmoylan-pi> no evil would be opening the vault doors to the windows bob stock
<diddledan> I thought bob was buried in the desert along with atari stuff?
<zmoylan-pi> i thought they dug that up and were selling it?
<zmoylan-pi> open a piece of history so bad it was buried in the desert under foundations of building for decades
<zmoylan-pi> instead of just waiting a few months and paying for ms latest... like normal people
<zmoylan-pi> so bought a new laptop today â¬280 for 4gb 1tb, dvd burner 15" lenovo.  will see how it handles linux later today...
<diddledan> lenovo are usually pretty good with linux afair
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: neat! did it come with Windows 8? :>
<zmoylan-pi> 8.1
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: do let me know if you get some fun, i've gotten Linux on a few now
<diddledan> shoulda waited for win10 :-p
<daftykins> pretty easy though
<daftykins> heh he specifically avoided it, apparently secure boot may not be optional with 10 machines 0o
<zmoylan-pi> i'm gonna try dual boot.  which is awkward instead of a wipe and 100% linux
<diddledan> it's actually a case that microsoft are not requiring that the secureboot be disableable
<zmoylan-pi> but first i'll boot from usb drivve and see how hardware compliant the laptop is.  ie wifi, audio etc.
<diddledan> for 8 and 8.1 due to consumer backlash microsoft stipulated that the secureboot be able to be disabled. for 10 they removed that requirement allowing manufacturers to decide for themselves whether they make it optional
<zmoylan-pi> manufacturers decide.  ie. ms says and they obey
<daftykins> sounds good
<daftykins> those Lenovos waste so much disk space with recovery partitions and jazz
<daftykins> i tend to burn off optical media restore discs, then nuke the partition, resize Windows' C: then install ubuntu after
<zmoylan-pi> only bad thing is that only has 4hour battery life which is sucky in this day and age.  physically small battery
<daftykins> is it a B50-## series by any chance?
<zmoylan-pi> it has no option for restore disc generation
<zmoylan-pi> g50 i think
<daftykins> it no doubt will do, check the full start menu for 'lenovo recovery' or some such
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/3384338/c_1/1|category_root|Office,+PCs+and+phones|14418968/c_2/3|cat_19780850|Laptops+and+netbooks|14419039.htm
<zmoylan-pi> the lenovo recovery software just recovers from partition or generates a snapshot of current state
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think the snapshot is easily copied off and used with blank laptop
<daftykins> https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Welcome-FAQs-Knowledge-Base/How-to-create-quot-Factory-Default-Recovery-Disc-quot-with/ta-p/274167
<zmoylan-pi> kinda needs windows plus lenovo software to use
<daftykins> that any good?
<daftykins> i've always found a prog that burns media / writes to an external hard disk
<zmoylan-pi> i think i found that link when i was doing this a while back.  it was for business laptops not home jobbies
<zmoylan-pi> i'll look in the morning just in case
<daftykins> mmm, i've dealt with 4 models recently and was able to find similar on all
<daftykins> there's always clonezilla if you have a nice size USB external HDD :)
<zmoylan-pi> you'll need 17 cds.... that's like backing up to floppies... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i have a few 1,2 and 3tb drives around
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> excellent!
<daftykins> when my clients Lenovo X1 turned up it came with win7, i used clonezilla to write that to an external of mine so i could revert if there was a disaster
<zmoylan-pi> i tried clonezilla before but got nowhere with it for reasons i can't remember
<daftykins> just deleted that backup today in fact
<daftykins> ah it's lovely :>
<daftykins> nn folks \o
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> m00
 * diddledan spots daftykins waving with his left hand and zmoylan-pi with his right, so waves with both \o/
<zmoylan-pi> 2 hands raised is the international sign of distress
<diddledan> even if you're waving them like crazy?
<zmoylan-pi> especially if you're waving them like crazy
<diddledan> lol
<mapps> hi all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapps> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2273657/
<mapps> sounds ok
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Weekend with no plans
<bigcalm> Bored already
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
 * brobostigon is fed up, he has sneezes because of his hayfever
<bashrc> messing with tox
<SuperEngineer> Has the Facebook / Pidgin / XMPP end finally happened?  No longer able to log in via Pidgin [was warned about as ending in April, it's now July - was I just lucky until now I wonder?]
<MartijnVdS> maybe
<SuperEngineer> ah well, that's ne less app to carry on my spinning rust ;)
<SuperEngineer> *one
<SuperEngineer> ...& one more reason to use the Android phone instead - doh!
<MartijnVdS> xD
<brobostigon> i can still conenct fine here with bitlbee, no warnings of any kind.
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon, hmmmmmmm
<SuperEngineer> is it using XMPP?
<brobostigon> yes.
<SuperEngineer> double hmmmmmmm
<brobostigon> 13:33:37 <@root>  6 (fb): jabber, ****@chat.facebook.com (connected)
<shauno> lol, leeeet timestamp
<brobostigon> pretty close.
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon, now I lnow why I couldn't use **** as username... you had it!
<zmoylan-pi> hack the planet \o/
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: yes, i wasnt going to give away my username to everyone.
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> Thinking of reprting a bug but can,t think of any wording to check if a pre-existing bug report... would "XChat window behaviour is a pain in the backside" be good enough?  ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Is it the placement of the window, or the contents or what?
<MartijnVdS> It has all those lines of text in it.. scrolling!
<MartijnVdS> As if people are talking!
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, it's when you slightly misplace the mouse at tabs, it decides you want it go from normal size to half screen - then if clicking on title bar to re-establish original, it decides you want original with the tabs hidden off scrren
<shauno> sometimes ;)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS, or like me ... making comments too long perhaps?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: OK, so is it specific to xchat?
 * penguin42 doesn't think he's hit that
<SuperEngineer> yep, xChat, the whole XChat, & nothing but the XChat
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Does it happen with hexchat?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, dunno - don't use hexchat anymore. Should I try, perhaps?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: People claim hexchat is newer/more supported than xchat - I switched over some time ago (on the machine I use it) and there's not much difference
 * SuperEngineer installs hexchat!
<SuperEngineer> back in a mo
 * bashrc runs irssi
 * Guest87951 likes HexChat!  Thanks [& removes XChat] ;)
<Guest87951> Is it possible to import settings from XChat to HexChat, I wonder?
<Guest87951> p.s. Guest87951 is me, SuperEngineer
<penguin42> Guest87951: Rumour has it that if you find the settings directory in .config (?) and copy it to hexchat from xchat it might work
<SuperEngineer> wee heeeee... hexchat does *not* suffer from same problem as xchat "I'll decide what you want" window problem.  Thanks
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: No problem
<SuperEngineer> :)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42,  ^
<SuperEngineer> boo
<SuperEngineer> [that means settings successfully tranferred from xchat to hexchat]
<MartijnVdS> *hides, scared*
<SuperEngineer> ..& oh ...and in that case BOO!
<MartijnVdS> ð­
<SuperEngineer> ;)
 * SuperEngineer uninstalls xchat
<diddledan> the librarians is awesome!
<foobarry> saboteurs, great programme on more4 lately
<diddledan> idependance day: resurgence has a release date!
<diddledan> june 24 2016
<diddledan> you know you've worked for a design shop too long when you can name a random font used by a tv series
<SuperEngineer> NSA Loves GCHQ: great programme on your electron eating devices - right noe!
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: ?
<SuperEngineer> re your own own comment diddledan
<SuperEngineer> sabateurs etc etc
<diddledan> o_O
<zmoylan-pi> it doesn't count if the font is comic sans... it's the font equivalent of a red rag... :-)
<diddledan> I didn't mention saboteurs
<SuperEngineer> hang on ., that was foobarry
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: papyrus
<zmoylan-pi> a fairly recognisable font
<SuperEngineer> my bafd
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: true
<SuperEngineer> bad
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: :-p
<foobarry> which font?
<foobarry> were you thinking of
<diddledan> foobarry: papyrus
<foobarry> thats what i thought you said ;)
<foobarry> the problem with my wife having hte remote control is that she skips through stressy or cringey bits
<diddledan> those are the important bits for plot tho
<foobarry> they are
<foobarry> i often compain about that
<foobarry> she says, you weren't watching it anyway
<MartijnVdS> I can't watch cringey bits of TV, which is why I stopped watching.
<foobarry> can someone mention my nick please?
<foobarry> foobarry:
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-33492512 rock and roll
<ali1234> foobarry ^
<foobarry> ali1234: thanks, again please?
<ali1234> foobarry doo doo doo
<foobarry> thanks. irssi-notify not working..looks like i'll try again at work
<penguin42> ali1234: The 3 pairs of jeans and 2 pairs of jogging bottoms is impressive
<foobarry> actually, one more mention would be great, thanks
<foobarry> lubotu3: would you speak to me?
<lubotu3> foobarry: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<foobarry> thanks :D
<SuperEngineer> hmmmm... never seen jogging bottoms, just whole joggers! Must be a local byelaw prob
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Yes, you only see them where they can go topless
<SuperEngineer> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-12
<mapps> hii
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<awilkins> Is it just me or are all the ubuntu mirrors really slow right now?
<awilkins> Getting dialup speeds
<awilkins> Doing a speedtest during a big package update.... 5Mbit/s
<awilkins> So definitely not the connection...
<shauno> "It is believed to be the first time the Welsh government has chosen to communicate in Klingon."   I needed that today :)   http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-33479808
<shauno> awilkins: I just got 12.5MB/s (big-B) from gb.archive, which isn't too shabby?
<awilkins> Getting 303 kB/s at moment
<awilkins> From ubuntu.com
<awilkins> Which is probably same as gb.archive ??
<awilkins> Was on gb.archive before
<awilkins> Tried a smaller 3rd party
<awilkins> Maybe the storm is clearing, whatever it was
<awilkins> Still much less than the 5Mbit/s this connection can do
<awilkins> Aaaand down to 15kB/s
<awilkins> Must have badmouthed it too much
<shauno> awilkins: "you made the server cry" might be appropriate right now; https://community.pagerduty.com/t/pagerduty-ringtones/63
<awilkins> Finally got all my updates :-)
<awilkins> Flash works again
<awilkins> Mixed feelings about that
<daubers> Afternoon
<penguin42> it is
<daubers> Lovely bit of rain this afternoon too
<penguin42> dry here
<daubers> You're missing out!
<penguin42> hmm no, it's not that warm here
<diddledan> allo allo
<zmoylan-pi> thees eees night'awk
<diddledan> so I just logged into facebook. the email alert says I am in fremont, california. either facebook is mistaken or a haxx0r just haxxed my account at precisely the same time I logged-in
<diddledan> either that or IPv6
<zmoylan-pi> or california invaded your home town..
<diddledan> there's a california in norfolk iirc
<shauno> he.net tunnel?  they're in fremont
<diddledan> yeah, he
<shauno> probably not a coinkydink.  but do delete your account, lawyer up and hit the gym, just in case :)
<diddledan> gym? that's a bit too much like effort
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: IPv6 from HE could be that I guess? Being US subnets etc
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> hurricane electric should really sort out the registration of their uk tunnels
<MartijnVdS> UK ISPs should just start doing proper IPv6 deployment themselves ;)
<diddledan> well yeah, there is that
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Apparently BT has started trialling it
<diddledan> bt are doing ^^ what he said!
<shauno> HE aren't actually doing much wrong.  geo-ip on v6 is just very very rough so far
<shauno> if I whois my v6 addy, I actually get galway IE in the result
<diddledan> IP Addresses were never meant to be geographic in the first place, though, so geoip is just silly
<shauno> eg http://paste.ubuntu.com/11867646/
<MartijnVdS> There's 1 consumer ISP in the Netherlands who do it (mine), and one trialing it (the biggest one)
<shauno> so the data's actually better than you'd expect - I show up as ireland despite using a london endpoint.  it's just not making it to the datasets the geoip folk collate
<zmoylan-pi> it was either that or a 4 'o 4 error :-)
<diddledan> how'd you get that registered as galway?
<penguin42> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/10/science/An-Image-of-Earth-Every-Ten-Minutes.html is gorgeous
<shauno> I guess they used the t-shirt promo to verify addresses :)
<diddledan> interesting, just checked mine and I'm registered correctly
<diddledan> contact:Province:Hampshire
<shauno> I'm guessing it was the t-shirt thing because I always put my postcode in as 'eire' when they demand one (and I don't have one)
<shauno> so at some point they asked me, rather than just trying to geo-locate my v4 endpoint
<shauno> but, not complaining.  it's accurate enough without being too personal
<zmoylan-pi> we'll have post codes soon.  terrible ones
<shauno> yeah :(
<shauno> not looking forward to that.  I kinda like that an post are miracle-workers
<shauno> I had a package arrive here in 5 days, from germany.  it was addressed to "shaun oneil, 2A, cork".  no street name, wrong city.  5 days.
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> htf did that even get to you at all?!
<zmoylan-pi> i had norwegian friends living on a tiny lane in dublin and there were 3 houses with their number in the lane.  never lost post
<diddledan> maybe you're the only shaun o'neil who lives at a 2a
<zmoylan-pi> it used to freak them out
<shauno> I like to think that someone in the sorting office is just on first-name basis with the entire country.  and just took one look and went "ahh nahh, shaun's in galway" and popped it in the right pile
<shauno> either that or they're witches.  but it works.
<zmoylan-pi> it's one of those things that if you examine too closely will stop working
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> it's actually a real thing that it's near impossible to fire a postman.  because if he doesn't pass down his notes to the next guy, it all goes horribly wrong
<shauno> sadly their "sorry we missed you" ninjas are just as highly trained
<zmoylan-pi> i play d&d with an irish postman, you should see him with nerf... :-p
<shauno> (also: https://twitter.com/DrJohnLahinch/status/614136743114244098  )
<zmoylan-pi> it's become a bit of a sport... http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/06/04/will-an-post-deliver-this/
<diddledan> some folk do riddles/puzzles on things they put in the post in place of the actual address to see if the postie is clever enough to solve it and get it to the right destination
<mapps> ahhh off after tonight
<ali1234> does anyone know how to remove invalid data from rrdtool?
<diddledan> ali1234: are the stats store in binary files? if not you might be able to remove the nasty-lines from the files and recreate the graph with gaps
<ali1234> yes they are stored in binary
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> no idea then
<diddledan> you _might_ get away with hexxing them to 00
<ali1234> i wish someone would write a half decent graphing tool
<ali1234> rrdtool is designed for graphing router traffic and it can't handle when the router is reset and the counters go back to zero
<penguin42> ali1234: I use grafana now
<diddledan> statsd+graphite seems to be gaining momentum
<ali1234> instead it assumes the 64bit counter overflowed and you transfered several petabytes in 1 second
<diddledan> but that's not specific to routers - it's a generic statistics thing
<ali1234> penguin42: yeah but what is the data source?
<ali1234> graphite?
<penguin42> ali1234: Yes, I think that's what I'm using, with carbon/whisper storage
<penguin42> ali1234: and collectl
<diddledan> ali1234: https://github.com/graphite-project is the source code
<penguin42> ali1234: It gives nice pretty/zoomable graphs, it's not too bad - so the upside is it's interactive, the downside is it's interactive - so if you want to publish it to an external site it's harder than the static graphs of rrd generates
<penguin42> ali1234: But I think you can get graphite to do that
<diddledan> seems their homepage is just docs rather than necessarily telling you about the project, but it's at http://graphite.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
<ali1234> seems there's three parts: getting the data, storing the data, and plotting the data on a graph
<penguin42> ali1234: And a 4th of organising the set of graphs/dashboard
<ali1234> the only one i am unahppy with is the storing the data part
<ali1234> which is all rrdtool is supposed to do really
<penguin42> ali1234: So I erm think I'm running grafana on graphite on whisper/carbon supplied by collectl
<ali1234> lol
<diddledan> ali1234: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10298484/remove-data-from-rrdtool
<ali1234> this shouldn't be so difficult
<ali1234> it's just a graph
<penguin42> ali1234: Agreed
<diddledan> seems you can dump it to xml and reimport once edited
<ali1234> i could make a graph in excel in about 10 seconds
<ali1234> why is it so hard to automate this?
<penguin42> ali1234: http://www.treblig.org/debug/gort-network.png   but it comes out OK
<ali1234> diddledan: yeah i'm abandoning rrdtool, it's annoyed me once too often and the graphs are ugly anyway
<diddledan> yeah the graphs are fugly!
<diddledan> they're not antialiased which makes them all jaggy
<diddledan> penguin42: those are pretty
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh and it's not too bad to navigate - still some things where it's a bit kludgy but not bad
<penguin42> diddledan: Easy to add your own stuff as well; I've got one where I fed temperature data from my own code
<penguin42> diddledan: I don't particularly like the way it stores it's data though; you do have to preallocate space
<ali1234> as with rrdtool, it seems like the big problem is you have to specify the fixed size database parameters up front and then you can't ever change them
<penguin42> ali1234: You can change them
<penguin42> ali1234: whisper-resize
<penguin42> ali1234: I've done it a few times having gotten it wrong originally
<ali1234> you can change them in rrdtool too but it doesn't actually make any sense to do so and will usually corrupt the data
<ali1234> graph tool should store the raw data
<ali1234> (x,y) -> row
<penguin42> ali1234: Which whisper can do I think
<ali1234> it shouldn't need to care about what the data actually means until it has to generate a graph
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh there seem to be some specials to deal with sample data - it seems to be a common problem to want to store samples and retrieve samples from a range and possibly at different levels of granularity
<penguin42> ali1234: For example, if you've got samples every 5 seconds, if you try and draw a 6 month graph you end up with a heck of a lot of data unless you're careful
<penguin42> ali1234: If you set it up right, you can balance how much is sent to the js graph browser and how much is averged on the server, so neither of them go mad
<ali1234> ah... i just found something
<diddledan> \o/
<ali1234> you can set the min/max on the database, then dump and restore it
<ali1234> then you don't need to modify the xml by hand
<diddledan> o_O
<ali1234> if you modify an existing database min/max it doesnt automatically remove values outside the range
<diddledan> o_O you can register children's names in the uk using unicode characters!?!
 * diddledan listening to linuxvoice podcast
 * brobostigon is listening to TBBT repeats.
<diddledan> TBBT?
 * zmoylan-pi is watching m*a*s*h
<diddledan> the british baking twonks?
<brobostigon> diddledan: the big bang theory.
<diddledan> aah
<brobostigon> easy listening while do other things.
<brobostigon> as i am also, planning to DM a game of D&D with friends soon.
<brobostigon> doing planning for that.
<zmoylan-pi> what version?
<diddledan> geek :-p
<diddledan> teehee
<zmoylan-pi> i highly recommend nerf with d&d for settling rules arguments
<diddledan> last time I played D&D I managed to spawn, not one, not two, but three dolphins into a stairwell. the same stairwell
<diddledan> and another member of our party was decidedly terrible at abseiling down the outside of the tall tower we were exploring
<diddledan> strangely he didn't die
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: we are moving from v.4 to v.5, u working on the basis of v.5.
<diddledan> despite falling several floors
<zmoylan-pi> i think one of our finest moments was when we sold an entire village into slavery for price of a map.  we were playing evil alignment but we kinda shocked the dm
<diddledan> lmao
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> an _entire_ village
<diddledan> lmao
<zmoylan-pi> well apart from those that resisted
<diddledan> oh that one caught mne offguard
<diddledan> I'm sat here laughing my head off
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, kind of the reaction the dm had.  we were evil but wow isn't that excessively evil?
<diddledan> I'm guessing the DM was somewhat shocked that you even succeeded in the sale
 * brobostigon plays a good human wizard, but can be very evil with his magical powers.
<diddledan> gotta love the roll of the die
 * brobostigon has copper d20 dice.
<diddledan> oooh
<zmoylan-pi> i play a human mercenary in one game who's chief ability is to hide behind a dwarf and an orc pacifist in another who lets monster try and hit him till they die of exhaustian
<brobostigon> same as i do, hide behind everyone else to protect myself, and hit other people with spells in the their heads.
<zmoylan-pi> the human mercenary is fun as he tag teams with the dwarf so that huge horrible monster find me flinging the dwarf into flanking positions from where he does stupid levels of damage while i whittle them down with weak constant unstoppable attacks
<diddledan> gotta love dwarf-flinging
<zmoylan-pi> i've even beaten warforged in hand to hand unarmed combat which suprised everyone including myself
<brobostigon> my gf plays a cleric, so i keep close to her, loadsa healing powers.
<diddledan> plus. kissies! :-p
<zmoylan-pi> one of our healers has a pet monkey.  he has a tendency to heal the monkey before healing us...
 * brobostigon giggles.
 * brobostigon approves.
<brobostigon> maybe she can have gold d20 dice instead of a gold ring if the time comes?
<zmoylan-pi> and pics from d&d games can be seen here. https://twitter.com/angryearthling/media
<diddledan> so I wonder if 5.25inch floppies will work under windows 10 (there were reports back in january that floppies were entirely unsupported but later builds have apparently included drivers for some floopies)
<zmoylan-pi> but only 720k floppies...
<diddledan> 360KB
<zmoylan-pi> or 180k
<diddledan> these aren't HD
 * brobostigon makes a note, gold d20 if gets engaged.
<diddledan> brobostigon: good plan!
<zmoylan-pi> or get a roman dice 2000yo...
<brobostigon> diddledan: :)
<diddledan> did the romans make d20s?
<brobostigon> probably not.
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/roman-d20
<zmoylan-pi> ~
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-11
<diddledan> moo
<daftykins> hi
<diddledan> o/
<daftykins> how goes it, sir?
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/g2pQizN.jpg
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> pretty good ta
<diddledan> mmm icecream ftw
<daftykins> that was the good, this was the bad
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkc0ks4ep7w1vnu/IMG_20160711_004924.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> poor little lass got swiped by a neighbour kitty
<diddledan> aww :-(
<diddledan> lots of cuddles required methinks
<daftykins> :) a fine treatment regime
<daftykins> heh i was cleaning her electronic cat flap today, she came back to it and i could tell the smell hit her first (used a bit o' fairy liquid)
<daftykins> she was all, "eww, no no no wat is this?!"
<diddledan> kitties don't like new smeels
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> that's why they don't like me.. too many farts :-p
<daftykins> had to click away inside looking at her until she came in
<diddledan> heh
<diddledan> wind's blowing well outside
<diddledan> my curtains are waggling
<daftykins> mmm i heard a bit of roughness out there too
<diddledan> is usb-c designed to handle thunderbolt or have people done something unspecced?
<daftykins> USB C is the physical form factor of the thunderbolt port on my Dell XPS 13 9350
<daftykins> it also speaks displayport
<daftykins> though i think that's encompassed within thunderbolt
<diddledan> yah but it also carries USB3.1 so I'm confused as to whether the thunderbolt and usb are converging
<diddledan> I mean my mobo says on the box "dual thunderbolt 3 - the usb type-c that does it all" and the usb3.1 are on the same holes
<daftykins> that'll likely be from an ASMedia chip
<daftykins> you have to bear in mind the industry has ruined "USB 3.1" as that can mean two things, USB 3.1 gen 1 is 5Gbps or what we know as USB 3.0 - whilst USB 3.1 gen 2 is 10Gbps
<daftykins> it's a mess :(
<diddledan> nuts
<daftykins> i don't think my board has thunderbolt, so i dunno there
 * diddledan checks the manual to be sure it does thunderbird and 3.1 on the same connector
<diddledan> yup. definitely does
<diddledan> the specs say it's an intel thunderbird controller
<daftykins> on mine, the ASMedia drives the teal coloured USB 3.1 gen 2 ports on the back, one USB C and one USB A
<diddledan> yeah. mines only got 3.1 routed to the USB-C's all the USB-A's are 3.0 or less
<diddledan> there's a couple 2.0/1.1-only ports too
<daftykins> more than one C?
<diddledan> two C's
<diddledan> both thunderbird capable and both also 3.1
<daftykins> when i was shopping for mine i was gonna try and pick intel provided USB 3.1 gen 2, but i gave up caring in the end as it's quite rare
<daftykins> gen 2! :P
<daftykins> that figures
<diddledan> the board is a gigabyte Z170X-UD5 TH if you wanna look it up
<daftykins> sure, ta
<daftykins> interesting, i always wondered what actually drove the image
<daftykins> http://www.megachips.us/products/MCDP28_Products.php
<daftykins> yours uses the MCDP2800 chip
<daftykins> that drives DP and HDMI conversion output from the thunderbolt port
<daftykins> bloody dualBIOS :P
<daftykins> gigabyte you are nutters
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> at least it's not MSI "let's put the BIOS on a USB Disk"
<daftykins> are you waiting on RAM now? :>
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> wutcha pick? i was quite amused to see that despite stock speed being 2133MHz and them now going beyond 3400MHz, there's practically no benefit in benchmarks
<daftykins> http://www.gigabyte.com/fileupload/product/2/5479/20150904094342_big.png :o
<daftykins> ooh a port 80 for boot diagnostic codes built in
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> a port80? as in http?
<daftykins> :D the two digit seven segment displays
 * diddledan shows he's a web guy :-p
<diddledan> aah gotcha
<diddledan> yup, I spotted that too
<diddledan> and a nice button for power switch without wiring-up a case-mounted one
<diddledan> no more fiddling with jumpers to test it :-p
<daftykins> that one i got off ebay was like that XD
<daftykins> what was ace was i've got 3 boards of the same era, so when i unplugged all the front panel IO stuffs from the case, on that little white plastic riser you get with asus gear, it all matched so i just plugged it straight back on the new one \o/
<daftykins> although it turned out my board was fine, it was just my graphics card all along
<diddledan> I got one of those risers with this gigabyte
<diddledan> again with the "no moar fiddling"
<daftykins> they're ace
<daftykins> my Z170 asus was actually too stingy, i was shocked!
<daftykins> remember the days of individually wired USB header connectors? ugh
<diddledan> oh god
<daftykins> love the new USB 3.0 design for case ones though
<diddledan> they were evil
<daftykins> VCC, data -, data +, ground, ground!
<daftykins> "Software as a service monitoring platform Datadog, used by the likes of Facebook, Salesforce and Citrix, has been breached and therefore suggested strongly that customers reset their passwords."
<diddledan> oh dear
<daftykins> Other customers include Spotify, The New York Times and Samsung
<m0nkey_> ffs
<m0nkey_> I'm just going to stop using everything on the web.
<daftykins> it's the only way to be sure
<m0nkey_> daftykins, you got a link?
<daftykins> it's pretty recent on www.theregister.co.uk
<daftykins> was reading from feedly on my phone
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/11/hacker_bites_datadog_servers_finds_hardtochew_bcrypt_passwords/
<daftykins> yeee
<diddledan> time to sleep
<diddledan> nn
<daftykins> g'night sir
<daftykins> http://guernseypress.com/news/2016/07/09/pressure-hose-flies-off-and-hits-scooter-rider/
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBJU9ndpH1Q
<daftykins> wow!
<knightwise> Good morning
<knightwise> Pokemons on the roof ! Unity under windows ... What is this ? Jumanji  ?
<marshmn> somehow, suspend is now working fine on my laptop
<marshmn> maybe some recent system updates made it work
<marshmn> no doubt it may break again sometime - I'll enjoy it whilst it lasts :-)
<zmoylan-pi> meanwhile it'll keep you in suspense...
<knightwise> marshmn: what machine do you have ,
<marshmn> knightwise: Dell XPS 15 (not the most recent generation though - the one before)
<knightwise> I have the XPS13 ,
<knightwise> same gen as yours i think
<knightwise> did you do anything special to enable hibernate ?
<dogmatic69> hi all, I got a new lenovo E560 and the touchpad is horrible. Cant drag and select files for example because it jumps around the screen
<dogmatic69> also cant highlight text as it jumps around.
<dogmatic69> anyone seen something like this, or know how to fix it?
<knightwise> popey: I think you managed to tick off every single star trek geek in under 30 seconds
<knightwise> well done
<TwistedLucidity> dogmatic69: Appears to be a common issue with that model - http://askubuntu.com/questions/758663/lenovo-thinkpad-e560-trackpad-stopped-working
<TwistedLucidity> I can't see anything offering a guaranteed solution; sorry
<TwistedLucidity> The Lenovo Support page does offer Linux updates for BIOS etc. maybe that will help?
<davmor2> knightwise: it's a special knack popey has to both endear and annoy in one swift movement ;)
<dogmatic69> TwistedLucidity: thanks
<dogmatic69> TwistedLucidity: that is actually not the same issue.
<knightwise> davmor2: The only thing he could have said that was worse was that he preferred"the animated series"
<davmor2> knightwise: Startrek that's the one with darth vader on Galatica with old ben and maxmillion are the droids, with that plucky little firefly that buck rogers flys in the animated version right
<TwistedLucidity> dogmatic69: Driver/Module issues can cause seven shades of weirdness. I've not got experience of any Edge-series ThinkPad.
<davmor2> popey: ^ that's how you should start every show :D
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> i think trackpads and their suckiness in macos, windows and linux have encouraged me to use console apps more and more
<popey> davmor2: knightwise it wasnt intentional
<knightwise> popey: did you seriously not know the difference between voy and tng ?
<popey> i know both exist
<zmoylan-pi> disparaging star trek on irc is worse than hurting cat on internet? :-P
<zmoylan-pi> as long as you worship at the altar of ds9 all is well... :-P
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: right on both accounts
 * knightwise is a TOS man .. but loves DS9 too
<zmoylan-pi> and if you love ds9 you should go and watch b5 as well
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: beentheredonethat :)
<zmoylan-pi> see the new episode of trek continues?
<knightwise> let there be dragons ?
<zmoylan-pi> come not between the dragons
<popey> never watched ds9 either
<knightwise> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSFHGyLYQ-c
<popey> or b5
<knightwise> yep :) Fantastic episode zmoylan-pi
<popey> mate of mine used to
<knightwise> popey: you have a lot to learn :)
<zmoylan-pi> you hear of geeks who haven't seen trek... but they're so rare... :-P
<popey> :)
<popey> well, once i plough through stv and tng i will do tge others
<popey> netflix ftw
<knightwise> VOY is like OITNB in space. Everyone is stuck and Kate Mulgrew is running the show. :)
<zmoylan-pi> voyager is lame till the borg show up
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: i wanna flip that statement around
<zmoylan-pi> then she goes all ellen ripley on the queen
<knightwise> Voy is cool UNTILL the borg shows up
<davmor2> popey: hahahahahahahahaha
<knightwise> popey: agreed
<knightwise> my wife is currently rewatching BH90210
<knightwise> some of the tech they use there is hilarious
<popey> oitnb is ace
<davmor2> knightwise: you poor poor man
<popey> love mulgrew in it
<popey> got 2 eps left to watch
<knightwise> davmor2: i watched a couple of episodes with here. ITs not THAT bad actually. I prefer stuff like that to the gore-blood-violence stuff like 'daredevil'
<knightwise> popey: indeed. Kate is awe-some
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Cheer Up The Lonely Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: this one sprung straight to mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt2mbGP6vFI
<JamesTait> davmor2, that takes me back to secondary school, and an assembly my maths teacher gave.  Obviously had an impact if it's stuck with me this long.
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're welcome :)
<foobarry> does anyone here use okconfig with nagios?
<davmor2> oh this is nice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuGuSzt5u3c
<DJones> Will  whoever ordered rain for the middle of summer please withdraw from any politcal candidacy aspirations. Thank you.
 * davmor2 reads the Mail, DJones apparently it's all the fault of the immigrants that the EU sent and it wouldn't of happen if Diana was alive 
<zmoylan-pi> in ireland it is merely warm winter with normal dampness
<DJones> davmor2: Yeah, she'd have an umbrella that covered the country to save us
<DJones> Ah well, forecast is for no rain for the next 10 days, hedges might get a haircut
<davmor2> DJones: http://dailypicksandflicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/In-the-Bible-it-rained-for-40-days-they-called-it-a-disaster.-In-England-we-call-it-summer..jpg
<Myrtti> DJones: shush, I like rain. Or overcast. Better than over 22C temp.
<Myrtti> 22C is golden, anything above that is torture
<zmoylan-pi> but soon we'll have rain _AND_ over 22c temp so raincoats just get wet from inside out...
<diplo> Nooooooo!!!!!! Myrtti
<davmor2> Myrtti: I think people on the rack might disagree with you :)
<DJones> Myrtti: I like cold or dry heat, not this junk we've got now, humidity  wrecks me
<Myrtti> agree with the humidity being a pain
<diplo> Same as DJones
<davmor2> pfff it's only 81% humidity wusses
<DJones> I loved going to Singapore years back, but 100% humidity at 30C waa horrible
<Myrtti> I just sleep so poorly nowadays, I'm rolling in sweat in the bed. Got two hours of sleep last night
<Myrtti> it's not good, folks
<zmoylan-pi> my usual 4 hours of sleep with fan pushing a nice breeze in bedroom
<diplo> Window open with a fan works for me too
<davmor2> Myrtti: get a ceiling fan or a dyson jobby or an aircon unit
<DJones> Myrtti: +1
<zmoylan-pi> a dyson fan?! did she win the lottery?
<Myrtti> davmor2: mmh, I was tempted earlier in the summer but it's too late now, we've got other stuff to attend to. Can't really keep the windows open all the time for his fear of spiders. Although he's getting better at tolerating them
<davmor2> Myrtti: never too late in the uk
<Myrtti> oh being in UK has nothing to do with it, it's more about us and our priorities in purchases and the economics of it all
<DJones> Myrtti: I wake up around 4:30, with severe sweating, waiting for more hospital tests on my heart, thats even with a ceiling fan
<davmor2> September is normally the muggiest month
<Myrtti> DJones: 2:50 last night, stayed awake until 0630ish and napped until 8
<DJones> Myrtti: Thats a lot like me, wake up early hours, on and off napping four hours after about 2 hours being wide awake
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: if you have to have Dyson, there's always http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/dyson_outlet/
<Myrtti> anyway, since my Amazon delivery vigil is now over, I can go for that nap I so sorely need
<awilkins> Dyson 4tw
<awilkins> My GF has a Henry
<awilkins> We are moving in together. Henry is not coming.
<Seeker`> :(
<Seeker`> Poor Henry
<awilkins> i) He doesn't suck very well. ii) Whenever you clean with him, he makes the room smell of feet
<Oli> + bags
<awilkins> Yes.
<awilkins> Everyone heard the news about who's gonna be PM? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/frown.png
<Oli> I wish Dyson would buy them and make a 4KW professional bagless wheelie-Dyson. Their current line of "Animal" products fail quite hard when you have a golden retriever.
<davmor2> awilkins: henry and gtech are both better options than dyson we discovered :(
<Oli> Or, buy them (numatic) and iRobot (of Roomba fame) and build a house-super-cleaning Dalek
<diddledan> we got a new pm?
<foobarry> is it the matron stormtrooper from force awakens?
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> we have
<diddledan> andrea pulled-out?
<diddledan> theresa reminds me of maggie
<evilchristel> i cannot help but fear that when she's done with us we'll think of maggie as the kind, considerate grannie that we wish we still had
<foobarry> http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Harriet_Jones
<diddledan> foobarry: does she look tired to you?
<foobarry> also...captain phasma
<diddledan> so this is a thing: http://www.boycottdocker.org/
<diddledan> it's very random and ranty and I can't make any sense out of it at all
<Myrtti> btw Brian Cox just started in BBC1
<marshmn> diddledan: I think that's been around for some time?
<diddledan> aye
<marshmn> diddledan: personally, I find Docker to be an incredibly helpful piece of the modern web development stack
<marshmn> maybe there are improvements to be made, rival technologies to thrive - but at least for now, Docker has changed the world quite a bit
<diddledan> what annoys me is there seem to be two camps for webdevs: docker and vagrant. (of those that use a separate env for their work)
<diddledan> so I'm finding that there are some tools which want each
<diddledan> vagrant is really annoying in that it requires a VM
<marshmn> sure
<diddledan> or at least most people's implementation of vagrantfiles require such
<marshmn> I used to use Vagrant
<diddledan> vagrant _can_ back onto docker but people don't add that support to their vagrantfile
<marshmn> but these days I only use Docker really
<diddledan> that's my main gripe about: https://github.com/Varying-Vagrant-Vagrants/VVV
<diddledan> it's a WordPress environment
<marshmn> when I used Vagrant, it was pretty much as the basis for a dev environment only
<diddledan> e.g. if I'm in Windows I can't install a VMM because I wanna use Hyper-v for other stuff
<marshmn> with Docker, I have something that I feel comfortable using in dev, staging & production
<marshmn> and it's so much lighter weight
<marshmn> I just don't find the need for Vagrant anymore
<marshmn> not that I've got anything massively against Vagrant
<marshmn> I just don't find a need for it
<marshmn> YMMV
<diddledan> the guys behind vagrant have a new thingy: https://www.ottoproject.io/
<marshmn> might be interesting
<diddledan> I get the impression that otto project is kinda like "vagrant doesn't quite work right. let's not fix it and do something completely different instead."
<marshmn> hehe
<diddledan> i.e. throw ouot the baby with the bathwater
<marshmn> quite possibly :)
<daftykins> \o
<diddledan> o/
<daftykins> diddledan: any further arrivals? :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> evenin'
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi daftykins but anyone actusally from UK about :D ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> since my question is for
<diddledan> nope, still waiting
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan, where are you from?
<daftykins> well that's not very nice :P
<diddledan> I love you, still, daftykins
 * daftykins hugs diddledan 
<diddledan> <o/
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> \o/
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, Theresa May as prime minster won't effect you much
<diddledan> silly keymap
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, if at all
<daftykins> oh lawd you're not gonna bring up politics are you ;D
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well that's todays news
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Theresa May will be prime minster probably by Wednesday evening
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> that's better
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what does people think of that?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> here
<diddledan> I think:
<diddledan> .politics
<diddledan> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<diddledan> that one ^
<daftykins> >:D
<diddledan> muahahaha
<daftykins> the reg told me she shares a name with some kind of adult entertainer
<diddledan> hah
<diddledan> the reg would know of such things ;-)
<daftykins> apparently said entertainer features in The Prodigy's "Smack My B**** Up" music video
<diddledan> well bother me: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/someone-just-installed-unity-windows
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan, that's old news like two days now
<diddledan> sorry I breathed
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan, also using the Windows 10  and Ubuntu thing etc, someone had already installed XFCE even
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-12
<daftykins> http://s2.b3ta.com/host/creative/13/1467833078/grouchhousehunt.jpg
<diddledan> cancelled my amazon memory order - was gonna take another week to arrive, so I've moved my custom to ebuyer - coming wednesday
<diddledan> kk, I'm gonna set winupdate running and go bed
<diddledan> nn
<SebthreeBQM10HD> morning
<knightwise> morning peeps
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<knightwise> hey pavlushka stryx`_
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<pavlushka> Hello knightwise
<pavlushka> knightwise: I am here daywise, :p
<pavlushka> sorry, knight is actually represent warrior, my bad knightwise
<pavlushka> knightwise: changed mt status to guardwise, :p
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Pecan Pie Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: just call me hillbilly joe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntM9LJj3QK8
<foobarry> lenovo N22 chromebook Â£99 on amazon prime day
<knightwise> thats pretty cheap
<knightwise> listening to the very first DSC podcast http://hotcoffee.org/na_page/Podcasts/DSCPodcasts.aspx
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: lenovo, comes with backdoor unlocked and a large neon sign reading "Free stuffs here"
<foobarry> even chromebooks?
<TwistedLucidity> Their consumer-grade were always wrose. Lost all trust in the company to be honest.
<knightwise> TwistedLucidity: Lenovo .. our laptops have been bending over and picking up the cybersoap in the dirty bathrooms of the internet for the longest time :)
<zmoylan-pi> teaches you how to secure your devices
<TwistedLucidity> Kinda tricky with the baked-in Intel backdoors
<zmoylan-pi> well even lenovo can't help that
<TwistedLucidity> Although is (supposedly) only in the enterprise-y kit
<zmoylan-pi> that's why you do your secure computing on an 8bit computer :-)
<zmoylan-pi> alan cox is making a modern os for z80 chips... :-)
<bashrc> is z80 still used anywhere? embedded systems?
<zmoylan-pi> they haven't stopped production since the 80s aiui so someone is using them
<awilkins> I think 68000 chips were the go-to CPU for washing machines for a long time. Maybe still.
<DJones> Thankfully live sport on tv, 13:07              <   io_____!uid4598@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oryupzhvcmycpibb [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] >  13:07 DJones (+i) 3:freenode/#ubuntu (+CLcfjnt) Act: 1,2,4,6,7,8,9,10,
<DJones> What
<DJones> Get pedaling, go Froome
<BigRedS> Morning all! Is there an obvious choice for something raspberry pi-like but with two ethernet sockets?
<BigRedS> I'm after something cheap, not-very-powerful but able to run enough linux to filter packets
<davmor2> BigRedS: bannan pi router maybe
<BigRedS> davmor2: ooh, hadn't come across these banana variants, ta!
<davmor2> BigRedS: you're welcome
<diddledan> I wonder what the NAT performance of that banana router is
<davmor2> diddledan: King Cole status at least
<davmor2> diddledan: no idea in reality but it had multiple ethernet ports which was the only specification requested :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> doesn't say much at all on https://linux-sunxi.org/Lamobo_R1#Network_performance
<diddledan> someone asks for details at http://bananapi.com/index.php/forum/news/306-lamobo-r1-network-interface-issues but gets none
<diddledan> someone suggests wan<->lan of about 350Mbit/s
<diddledan> pretty decent
<diddledan> that's at http://bananapi.com/index.php/forum/general/1920-slow-routing-speed?start=6#4089
<diddledan> graham cluless alert: https://www.grahamcluley.com/2016/07/snapchat-lawsuit/ <-- I think a teenage boy is more likely to seek these out than file a lawsuit
<DJones> To be honest, I can understand that lawsuit, at least 50% of the adverts I get served by websites, I'd consider offensive or against my own moral beliefs
<diddledan> you're not a teenager though :-p
<DJones> 95% of twitter add's I end up blocking and reporting as offensive
<diddledan> teenagers are a weird bunch
<DJones> Maybe not, but probably more open minded now then as a teenager
<diddledan> I know, I used to be one :-D
<diddledan> true
<DJones> No kidding :)
<diddledan> I know what you mean though, I find some stuff offensive too
<DJones> Facebook keeps asking me to like a racist organisation even though the only people I know that have ever "liked" posts have been blocked
<diddledan> sounds like they're trying to reinvent microsoft's clippy: "it looks like you're a racist. would you like to join the kkk?"
<diddledan> I wonder how they figured you'd want to "like" it in the first place?
<DJones> No idea, every time I see it, I report it as racist
<foobarry> DJones: that stuff keeps coming up
<foobarry> seems broken
<foobarry> seen filthy and also unpleasant racist stuff but fb keeps forgetting
<foobarry> maybe until i said it was libellous about me
<foobarry> brexit has broken fb
<davmor2> diddledan: by the sound of it he's got his head screwed on if he gets money from it :D
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> been doing serious battle with nagios this week
<foobarry> and puppet
<diddledan> ouch
<davmor2> foobarry: let me guess nagios won
<foobarry> even wrose, it was with okconfig
<foobarry> for generating configs
<foobarry> its messy but brilliant
<foobarry> main issue is lack of docs
<foobarry> also pynag...awesome
<diddledan> daftykins: my memory is in the post
<diddledan> arriving tomorrow
<diddledan> but grr, it's coming via yodel
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: hi
<diddledan> you know I think we need more Dave II. davmor2, if you will
<diddledan> or is it 2.0?
<diddledan> I wonder what versioning system skynet will use?
<davmor2> diddledan: I follow Suse's 6.3 guide to nicks first 3 letters of your firstname and surname and a number davmor1 was in use at the time so I went with davmor2 it just stuck then :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> mine would be danlle then
<davmor2> danlle1
<davmor2> you forgot the number
<diddledan> I'm unsure how that would be pronounced: maybe dan lee or dannal
<davmor2> diddledan: dan thle
<diddledan> well if you wanna go welsh then all bets are off :-p
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, hi
<diddledan> oh dear :-( https://twitter.com/shadowcat_mst/status/752180861718650881
<knightwise> hmm
<knightwise> i must be doing SOMETHING wrong here :)
<knightwise> My 1604 xps wont connect to ANY bluetooth device
<knightwise> not to a mouse, not to an external speaker , Notin
<diddledan> knightwise: it's a feature
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> ooh, mr robot is soon
 * diddledan watches dark matter s02e02
<knightwise> Dark matter!
<knightwise> thanx ! i dint know that was out
<knightwise> diddledan: have you had trouble with bluetooth too ?
<diddledan> I haven't tried
<diddledan> the android is an intriguing character
<diddledan> she's alive yet also bound. perfect yet also broken
<davmor2> knightwise: I just connected it to a speaker no issues
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan> ho boy this sounds big: https://www.drupal.org/node/2764899
<daftykins> diddledan: heh you have one seriously split up PC order!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> my order for memory accidentally ended-up getting this tacked-on. I have little idea how that happened: http://www.ebuyer.com/725816-samsung-950-pro-256gb-m-2-ssd-mz-v5p256bw
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> you must have a Guern bugging you
<diddledan> damn those guerns
<diddledan> I made sure to find an SSD that was true pcie/nvme and a x4-lane variant for the most throughput
<diddledan> plus samsung have good rep in my view for ssds
<diddledan> it's somewhat annoying that you still see listings for SATA-based m.2 ssds
<daftykins> *nod* good warranty
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/MrsStephenFry/status/752945040574582784
<daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-36775543
<daftykins> and so the stupidity begins
<daftykins> or rather, a year ago :D
<daftykins> diddledan: good news is there's no special hassle to go to to install, too
<diddledan> \o/
 * diddledan been itching to try-out this rig. can't wait until tomorrow now! :-)
<daftykins> are you chucking out some old AMD gear and throwing it all in the same case?
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> hope your PSU is haswell+ certified!
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> I haven't checked
<diddledan> it's a corsair cx600 according to the sticker
 * diddledan googles
<daftykins> ah that sounds pretty recent then
<diddledan> alternatively I can put a jeantech jnp-700-ac12 in
<diddledan> err a12c
<daftykins> heh never heard that brand!
<davmor2> daftykins: they only come in denim blue and black
<diddledan> it's on the floor there ---v
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> stonewashed PSUs
<daftykins> i wish 10's existence hadn't gimped Windows Update for 7 so much, it's been sat checking for 2.5hrs now on a 7 box of mine
<daftykins> you could argue there's quite some load from everywhere checking at 6pm BST though (earliest they release)
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> patch tuesday?
<daftykins> yip!
<daftykins> updates come out at west coast time 9am i make it
<zmoylan-pi> but didn't everyone switch to win10 leaving the windows 7 update servers empty? :-P
<daftykins> nope you're forgetting the tinfoil hat wearers
<DJones> Does anybody still use 7?
<zmoylan-pi> maybe the win 7 update servers are updating to win10 right now? :-)
<daftykins> why wouldn't they still use 7...
<diddledan> the sky just exploded
<DJones> If you're a tinfoil hat user, you'd you'd still be udingxp
<DJones> using xp
<zmoylan-pi> windows 3.0 :-)
<daftykins> not even tinfoil hat wearers are enough of idiots to run an EOL OS
<diddledan> hah. you're kidding, right, daftykins ?
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> "I don't care about patches. they make my system less secure"
<daftykins> depends on your flavour of tinfoil hat luser i guess, i saw plenty running EOL ubuntu in #ubuntu trying to patch manually
<DJones> I know people still using Windows ME.......Doh
<diddledan> wha?!
<diddledan> I wasn't aware anyone had ever used Me
<daftykins> i had a graphics teacher in secondary school that told me he 'upgraded' to it, i skipped it entirely myself
<daftykins> DJones: old codgers or something?
<DJones> I had it preinstalled before I installed slackwareas my first linux  install
<diddledan> wow. trial by fire that
<diddledan> thrown-in at the deep-end
<DJones> daftykins: Nope, Church computers, never updated
<diddledan> and other euphemisms
<daftykins> ah, what do they even use 'em for o0
<daftykins> typing up the signs etc?
<diddledan> I didn't really understand linux until I did several years with Gentoo as my system
<DJones> daftykins: powerpoint.... thats it...
<DJones> I think powerpoint 2003
<diddledan> nothing quite beats wiping your system and following the gentoo install handbook in a console web browser
<diddledan> you either get a working system eventually or you flake-out and return to windows
<daftykins> ah 2003 was a great office, ~350MB full install - then 2007 bloated it all up to 1.2GB ish for no benefit
<diddledan> and obviously the return to windows was kinda like admitting that you suck at life when you've decided to give linux a go
<daftykins> that's what limited my branching out when younger, being without my music because of being too newb to have a stab at mounting an NTFS volume - and having dialup still so not having the benefit of an always on connection
<DJones> I have a soft spot for slackware, my first linux install
<DJones> think it was around slackware 10
<zmoylan-pi> i think a lot of linux users had a first stab at linux before going back to familiar oses
<daftykins> when ADSL first launched here ~ 2003 or 2004 most folks had the 'stingray' alcatel speedtouch ADSL transceiver so sharing that wasn't too easy either
<diddledan> I think the first system I spent a reasonable amount of time with was suse and then gentoo
<daftykins> quite envious of youngsters now, they can install anything and (mostly) have working wifi and always on broadband to make use of :)
<zmoylan-pi> red hat 5.2 from floppies
<diddledan> daftykins: I had one of those stingrays
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I've still got it around here in a box
<DJones> Must have taken me a week before I moved to Ubuntu for convieniance
<daftykins> ah i turfed it out a bit ago, we're mostly VDSL2 now so it's useless
<diddledan> aye. I need to have a throw-out I think
<diddledan> I've got some ancient junk here
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> Pentium2 Compaq Proliants come to mind
<DJones> There was no point reopiling the kenal just because I farted
<daftykins> i had the benefit of the move to England for Uni to cut down, then i cut down again on the move back
<diddledan> they're in my "server cupboard" sitting cold
<diddledan> noisy blubbers those
<daftykins> for a while i ran that thing on a PII or PIII as an ipcop router, then later smoothwall
<daftykins> smoothwall 2.0 broke support though :(
<diddledan> ipcop \o/
<diddledan> I moved from smoothy to ipcop when smoothy went commercial
<daftykins> o rry
<daftykins> so it stopped being free?
<diddledan> they had a "community" edition
<daftykins> one of their employees actually came to my departments' project day at Portsmouth Uni
<zmoylan-pi> i still have a battery powered 9600baud fax modem here somewhere...
<daftykins> he said they were over in Southampton and ran umm, Xen for virt of their testing
<diddledan> "smoothwall express" according to their site
<daftykins> i'd done my dissertation on Xen
<zmoylan-pi> though i did draw the line a fewe years back and got rid of the full lenght awe32 sound blaster card
<diddledan> wow, it seems smoothwall might be dead now - last release of express was 2014 and before that 2007
<diddledan> http://www.smoothwall.org/releases/
<zmoylan-pi> or it's next one will be 2021...
<daftykins> pfsense has probably firmly ousted it
<daftykins> ah, updates galore... just got the July one for my Nexus 5 phone too!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<ali1234> popey: does ubuntu phone have anything like the android daydreams?
<popey> wossat?
<popey> googled and no
<popey> neat idea
<ali1234> it's like a screensaver basically
<ali1234> shows when docked/charging
<ali1234> usually they do stuff like show rss feeds
<daftykins> think it used to do gallery pic slideshows too?
<daftykins> might be thinking of something else
<ali1234> yep that's another one
<ali1234> like live wallpapers, you can install different ones from the store
<popey> certainly possible
<zmoylan-pi> strange person that i am i want devices not to use screen when charging... we had an imate jasjar winmobile device that insisted on turning screen on when trickle charging making the charge take 20+ hours... :-/
<diddledan> hmm, my system is being wonky
<diddledan> can't load pages in browser but already loaded ones like this irccloud tab work fine still
<diddledan> also explorer won't open
<diddledan> task manager won't open
<daftykins> can you run eventvwr and go to windows -> system ?
<daftykins> (windows logs)
<daftykins> could be all those insider builds catching up on you otherwise
<daftykins> 3 weeks 'til the anniversary release of 10 \o/
<zmoylan-pi> you shall bake a cake with an ubuntu usb drive in it?
<diddledan> had to hit the reset button
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> i had that with my new desktop recently, i had to make some registry edits to enable AHCI drive power control options to be visible in power config, then changed the drives (for my secondary drives) to use DIPM instead of HIPM (device vs. host initiated power management)
<daftykins> felt like a Linux tweak it was so tedious ;)
<diddledan> yeah it seemed to be unable to do anything that required IO
<daftykins> sounds a lot like what i had yep, kinda soft lock where only the cursor moved?
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> i had a tonne of iastor events in that section of event viewer anyways
<diddledan> for a period I could get start menu but eventually even that refused
<daftykins> if you open it and leave it open you might be able to check later
<daftykins> (if you see it again)
<daftykins> it's funny though, i was using my new PC for ages before that issue cropped up - then i could repeat it easily within 30 mins, so found how to solve it
<diddledan> my parcel is at wednesbury in the west-midlands
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> i'm looking at flights for a trip to the US in September
<diddledan> ooh
<daftykins> including 3 domestic flights to nip around and visit folk!
<daftykins> all that only comes to Â£1,200 - quite a surprise
<zmoylan-pi> with free prostate exam thrown in
<daftykins> yay!
<diddledan> I love Linus: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/11/linus_torvalds_in_sweary_rant_about_punctuation_in_kernel_comments/?mt=1468358181361
<daftykins> oh dear
<zmoylan-pi> some one should send him a top posted email... :-P
<diddledan> I miss playing with my Wily.
<diddledan> it's a shame Ubuntu has such a rapid release cadence at times.
<diddledan> at least Bash on Ubuntu on Windows is Trusty. I'd hate not to be able to rely on Microsoft :-p
<m0nkey_> That is a terrible pun, especially for you.
<diddledan> surely you expect these from me by now?
<daftykins> :D
<m0nkey_> I do, and don't call me Shirley.
<diddledan> mr robot starts soon
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> not gonna make the mistake of watching as it airs though, no sir-ee
<daftykins> (not that i did for s1 either)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> s'all about that binge enablement!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-13
<diddledan> related: https://twitter.com/EverySimpsons/status/753016095787790336
<diddledan> wow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOyfZex7B3E
<daftykins> mac owner :(
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> time for bed
<daftykins> \o
 * daftykins yawns
<mappps> hi
<mappps> watching all star game daftykins ?
<ball> popey: Are you asleep?
<mapps> id guess he is
<mapps> 5am in the uk
 * ball nods
<ball> That's about when I get up usually though.
<ball> ...not that I'm /always/ on IRC when I eat my breakfast.
<ball> Wait, isn't it 3:40 am?
<ball> Ah no, 04:40.
<ball> ...03:40 GMT.
<mapps> ya
<mapps> maybe 2hrs or so and hell be up
<ball> Hopefully I'll be asleep then. ;-)
<mapps> might try installing ubuntu touch on my nexus7
<mapps> 5am is early to get up
<ball> I think my Nexus 7 is a paperweight.
<ball> Mind you, it's months since I even powered the thing up.
<mapps> haha broken?
 * ball nods
<mapps> i dont use mine atm, i use my ipad or lenovo
<ball> I think it's the flash memory.
<mapps> i found crome so slow on it too, so figured id try ubuntu
<ball> I miss it though. It was a great little tablet for Android.
<mapps> you didn find it slow for chrome
<mapps> i used it mainly for watching vids on train or work
<mapps> why don you replace the memory
<ball> mapps: I didn't think they were repairable.
<ball> ...aren't they glued together?
<mapps> oh
<mapps> i thought youd be able to jus take it apart and replace
<mapps> https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/108068/Changing+of+flash+memory
<mapps> yea doesnt look easy
<ball> I think they're supposed to be disposeable. I just can't bring myself to buy another.
<mapps> ah hat sucks i hae throwing stuff out
<ball> If I had the money I'd be more likely to buy a laptop.
<ball> Can't really justify the expense though.
<mapps> ah
<mapps> i use my lenovo everyhwhere, got a carry case for it ;]
<mapps> lenvo tablet that is
<ball> I just bought a TS140 for the office. Not exactly portable though ;-)
<mapps> lenovo server?
<mapps> you dont have a laptop atm?]
<mapps> said youd buy one if you could...surely you have one
<mapps> i have 2, 3 tables, 2 phones.geek ehl;]
<ball> I don't own a laptop.
<ball> Years ago I had a Mac DuoBook 2300c and I think before that a sort-of-Pentium that was really a 32-bit machine with most of the I/O hanging off ISA bus.
<ball> ...that was a good machine for its time.
<ball> Oh, and I had a couple of iBooks, including one that I ran Yellow Dog Linux on.
<mapps> you ggot a desktop?
<mapps> surely ?
<ball> Yes, sort of. I need to buy an SSD for it.
<ball> ...or put a couple of 2.5" disks in there.
<mapps> ah
<mapps> what ou on now then
<ball> A combination of my wife's Mac mini, my daughter's Ubuntu box and a BSD account in Michigan that I've had since 1997.
<ball> ...though we've changed platform on that Michigan box, from SPARC to amd64, iirc.
<mapps> ah cool
<mapps> i cant imagine no laptop or desktop, id rather have an old p4 than nothing
<mapps> cant beieve some people ony have a phone and use that fr everything
<ball> I have a Pentium 4 at the office. ;-)
<ball> 2.5 GHz single-core, 2G RAM, 40G disk.
<ball> ...mostly works for me, though it sucks at video.
<ball> Fortunately I don't use it for that.
<ball> It's mostly an RDP client.
<ball> ...and runs some network tools.
<mapps> ya
<mapps> :)7
<mapps> whats i t run
<ball> NetBSD/i386 7.0.1
<ball> mapps: ...or did you mean the tools?
<mapps> i neant is ya
<mapps> you watch mr robot
<ball> No, I don't watch much television.
<mapps> oh
<mapps> <redcheckers> mapps: btw, do you remember the name of that ubuntu movie player people used to keep telling me to try
<mapps> any idea what hes thinking of
<mapps> <redcheckers> it had a K like KDE but not kde
<ball> kdenlive?
<ball> kvlc? :-)
<ball> kgiveup
<mapps> heh
<MooDoo> morning all
<corenominal> morning :)
<dwatkins> allo allo
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> after much umming and awwing I bought a metal detector yesterday
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 foobarry
<davmor2> foobarry: you have too much time on your hands that's your problem ;)
<foobarry> should have just bought it quickly you mean?
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning me owld mucka 'ow in blazes am ya
<foobarry> i don't like spending money on myself :S
<foobarry> even though it was funded purely from amazon vouchers
<MooDoo> davmor2: feeling pretty crappy today to be honest, not sure if i'm just tired or coming down with something
<zmoylan-pi> well, anything valuable you find belongs to the queen so it's not all spending money on yourself :-)
<davmor2> MooDoo: :( well pull yourself together man or we'll have to start calling you a southerner ;)
<foobarry> only old stuf
<foobarry> stuf less than 250 years belongs to me , and the landowner, depending on the agreement
<zmoylan-pi> and if it's found on beaches?
<foobarry> if its "treasure" then its declared
<foobarry> if its a gold necklace from ratners then it's yours
<foobarry> The Treasure Act 1996 deals with the definition of treasure, along with the payment of rewards in relation to permitted metal detecting
<zmoylan-pi> i think you dig a deeper hole for the rathers stuff :-)
<zmoylan-pi> *ratners
<foobarry> might popo down to southend at my learning trip
<foobarry> shame that detecting is so restrictied in UK
<foobarry> in the US they don't have an history i suppose. you can detect in most parks etc
<zmoylan-pi> stops national treasures been melted down for cash
<foobarry> more likely they will discover a hoard for excavation
<foobarry> which often happens
<foobarry> http://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/archaeology/art548868-Archaeological-dig-planned-as-metal-detectorist-discovers-untouched-Bronze-Age-burial-mound
<foobarry> etc etc
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> Heh. "The Detectorists" was a good show.
 * TwistedLucidity knows nothing about detectorology
<TwistedLucidity> Attach a VR drone to the detectoriser, then you can whizz up and down the beach/field/whatever from the comfort of your own home!
<TwistedLucidity> Do it close enough to the ground, and you could cut the grass at the same time.
<TwistedLucidity> New for 2017 from Flymo: Remote VR lawnmower and treasure finder.
<TwistedLucidity> *Actual treasure is not guaranteed
<zmoylan-pi> state of the lawn afterwards neither...
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Embrace Your Geekness Day! ð
 * zmoylan-pi checks to see that i'm wearing a geeky t-shirt... ancient dvd cca with source code for decrypting linux on the back...
<foobarry> buying a metal detector is embracing my geekness
<zmoylan-pi> *decrypting dvds on linux
<JamesTait> deCSS.png?
<zmoylan-pi> that's the one
<JamesTait> Kids today don't know the things we went through just so they can watch Pokemon movies on those long-haul flights.
<zmoylan-pi> it's the ones hammering on the cockpit door to get the next pokemon that will learn the hard way...
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: No, repurposing the metal detector as an at-home-MRI machine is embracing your geeknees. Bonus points for doing the processing on a RasPi cluster.
<foobarry> my new ringtone.... do doooo do doo
<foobarry> right
<JamesTait> Heheh.
<zmoylan-pi> camerons theme?
<JamesTait> That reminds me - there are a load of compositions that have sprung up from that, I need to have a listen.
<foobarry> really cheered me up that did
<JamesTait> "Cameron's Lament" was one, I believe.
<foobarry> still lauighing about it
<foobarry> better than chewbaccas mum
<JamesTait> The press conference had an air of Roy Hodgson about it, but the little ditty at the end rescued it.
<foobarry> i find it funny because its the sort of thing i do, but usually the walalce and gromit theme tune
<JamesTait> Git, I'm going to be singing that all morning now.
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.avclub.com/article/internet-has-field-day-david-camerons-sad-little-r-239453 has a selection of derivative works... :-P
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, that's the one!
<foobarry> been singing it for 10 years
<foobarry> i thought the cameron tune was a happy one
<diddledan> morning
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it's the end of the world as we know it, this is the end hold your breath and count to ten etc
<davmor2> JamesTait: think this covers you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5yFCV-GuRE
<JamesTait> SO it would seem.
<diddledan> still waiting on my package :-(
<TwistedLucidity> I wish my RasPi UPS would turn up 'n all.
<diddledan> ooh new pi
<diddledan> do you have plans for it?
<zmoylan-pi> how big is a rasp pi ups? are you sure they didn't leave it under door mat? :-)
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Old Pi B+, new UPS
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> UPS. I equated that to the parcel co
<diddledan> stupid people using a name twice
<zmoylan-pi> i blame baden baden
<diddledan> seagulls?!
<diddledan> I'm 60 miles from the nearest sea
<TwistedLucidity> They scavenge off anything. Often seen around landfills
<zmoylan-pi> how far from nearest river as some will stay near water that way
<diddledan> there's a canal the other side of town somewhere I think
<diddledan> other than that about 4 miles
<diddledan> maybe a bit more
<diddledan> the test river rises near basingstoke
<diddledan> https://goo.gl/maps/rMewtLf1PoS2
<diddledan> the marker should be on roughly the source of the test
<diddledan> the test is the one that enters the sea at southampton
<diddledan> bigcalm: lol
<diddledan> I love amazon's box choices
<TwistedLucidity> When does the Test river become the Release river?
<diddledan> when it gets good enough grades?
<zmoylan-pi> after it bypasses google hq?
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36780959/gta-5-pride-modification-aims-to-honour-orlando-attack-victims
<ball> Mornin'
<diddledan> balls
<diddledan> it's 'noon
<diddledan> :-p
<ball> diddledan: It's always mornin' somewhere. ;-)
<diddledan> it's always morning in Universal Greeting Time
<ball> It's 08:33 here and I'm thinking of going to the garage across the road in search of a fancy coffee.
<diddledan> fancy coffee ftw
<ball> ...looks dark and foreboding out there though. Might get struck by lightning.
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/72799/microsoft-bringing-skype-linux-chromebook-chrome-web-browser
<diddledan> downloads are at https://community.skype.com/t5/Linux/Skype-for-Linux-Alpha-and-calling-on-Chrome-amp-Chromebooks/td-p/4434299
<TwistedLucidity> Sooo...only for ChromeOS? No actual *real* GNU/Linuv love? That was the big announcement we're supposed to get excited over?
<TwistedLucidity> Ah "Linux, Chromebook". OK then
<diddledan> you misread
 * TwistedLucidity gets excited
<TwistedLucidity> Actually, not really excited. Skype is just a means to an end, I only really use it to speak with my parents
<TwistedLucidity> And the client I'm using now (no idea of version) does text, audio & video well enough.
<ball> Skype is horrid in my experience. One of the few things it has going for it is that it's cross-platform.
<TwistedLucidity> I'd rather use Jitsi, but it seems to struggle with my parents' poor internet
<svea____> Guess what this is? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Pln8MzJ5/irccloudcapture-521740221.jpg nsfw
<svea____> Oops wrong place please ignore and wipe from logs
<czajkowski> cant be wipped
<svea____> Crud
<svea____> Can I destroy the link it leads to by somehow wiping from irccloud?
<ball> Was it a question about goats?
<czajkowski> svea____: all Ubuntu channels are automatically logged - why not remove the image
<svea____> I wish I knew how
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> Seeker`: hi
<davmor2> meh Seeker` sorry was for Seb but he went :)
<mappps> hi akkll
<ali1234> http://twitchls.com/previouslyrecorded_live streaming pokemon go - this is amazing
<Azelphur> ali1234: is something amazing gonna happen?
<ali1234> technical difficulties probably
<ali1234> or they might get mugged
<Azelphur> lol
<zmoylan-pi> are we betting on the horrible things that could happen to them? :-P
<Azelphur> ali1234: I've been playing it with my gf, great fun, me and her own every gym in Margate
<ali1234> i installed it today but i didn't try actually playing it yet
<ali1234> seems like a lot of effort
<daftykins> wussat?
<ali1234> poke mango
<zmoylan-pi> it's not effort it's exercise... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> granted it's in the great outdoor which most geeks nerds have a natural aversion to... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it would explain that i saw a lot more young folk out walking glued to their screens on car free cycle lane / foot path near here...
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> suffice to say, there'll be more blood spilled and idiots Darwin awarded before the month is through
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be like blackberry never went away... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> now they just need to make a pac man version for the kids of the 80s :-D
<daftykins> did they have a rep on their inception for driving people to self injury?
<zmoylan-pi> when they first appeared around dublin i must have stopped a dozen people gazing at them from stepping onto road at traffic lights without looking.  then i stopped bothering.  if they wanted to be that dumb, who was i to stop them?
<daftykins> too right
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/EwgYOSI.jpg do these caps look blown? they've peaked up in the centre (not the middle one of the 3 circled)
<ali1234> yes
<daftykins> ty sir
<daftykins> iffy reliability on this clients' old core 2 duo machine, only POSTs sometimes
<ali1234> ATWY caps are known to be poor quality too
<daftykins> mmm, it is a pretty low end board
<daftykins> Asus P5KPL-AM SE
<ali1234> "TK stands for Terrible Kapacitors"
<daftykins> still, survived 7 years!
<ali1234> http://www.audunmelbye.no/2012/05/17/motherboard-repair/
<daftykins> :D
<tabland> Hi guys, just testing my nickserv
<daftykins> it'd be so useful if i could solder right about now
<daftykins> tabland: #freenode is handy for that ;)
<tabland> thanks
<ali1234> ship it to me, i'll do it for Â£50
<ali1234> including caps
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure your local hackerspace teaches soldering daftykins
<daftykins> haha, i bet there's no such thing
<ali1234> soldering is the easy part tbh. getting the old caps out without damaging the board is the hard bit
<Myrtti> we've got a cheapie amp that needs at least a cap replacement
<Myrtti> at least.
<Myrtti> it's got a hum that's super annoying, but it also makes a ticking noise
<daftykins> Myrtti: is that on the list of "things hubby hasn't got around to" :D
<zmoylan-pi> https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/List_of_Hacker_Spaces
<Myrtti> daftykins: and research too http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R2UIUVY41HEEKU
<daftykins> funky!
<daftykins> i'd kinda like a higher end hifi for my bedroom, the little JVC micro component system i have (still with minidisc!) sounds rubbish playing back things i know
<Myrtti> we had to unplug it because we kept thinking we've got a deathwatch beetle in the loft. Turns out the amp outputted a knocking sound to the JBL's on our wardrobes
<zmoylan-pi> someone other than sony made minidisc??
<Myrtti> drove me nuts for months
<daftykins> hells yeah, MD was ace \o/
<daftykins> i had a couple of portable players back in the day :)
<zmoylan-pi> i always wanted a minidisc at the time but couldn't justify the expense
<daftykins> Myrtti: i too am quite sensitive to noises, the xbox360 of mine (not that it is used much anymore) power supply emits a high pitched whine when simply plugged in - i can also hear the 2.5" laptop hard disk plugged into my xbox one spinning when the console is also off :/
<Myrtti> yeah, it's really annoying
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i probably paid Â£230 odd for those players back then, had a Sharp branded one also - in fact this very one! http://www.minidisc.org/images/sharp_mdmt877.jpg
<daftykins> i seem to have a knack for memorising model numbers
<zmoylan-pi> then ones i was looking at used a single aa battery for a ridiculous amount of time considering what it was doing
<daftykins> indeed! they coped quite well with being thrown around with my cycling too, i think they had a decent chunk of DRAM as a buffer
<zmoylan-pi> in the end mp3s came along and i got a cheap cd player that read discs stuffed with mp3s
<zmoylan-pi> 10 cds worth on one cd
<daftykins> aaah that rings a bell
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> ooh you've reminded me, i picked up the 5 CD set from the clients' which is decidedly less scratched than his first one
<zmoylan-pi> ripping cds on amd-k62.  an overnight job to rip one cd...
<daftykins> so it's back on the ripping job for me
<daftykins> ouch!
<daftykins> that sounds more optical based than encode based o0
<zmoylan-pi> it was a very slow pc with just 32mb of ram. we bought them super cheap
<zmoylan-pi> some of the sharpest most jagged pc cases i ever had the misfortune to handle
<diddledan> daftykins: up and running!
<daftykins> diddledan: :D
<daftykins> diddledan: how's she feel?
<diddledan> I still need to copy my 'dows drive onto the superspeed ssd but it's fairly snappy as is
<diddledan> "seems faster"
<daftykins> you should just install from the anniversary media when it comes out august 2nd
<daftykins> so you just booted the existing install? :P there's a recipe for disaster :D
<diddledan> I did :-p
<daftykins> lawl
<diddledan> I need to take half a day to route my power cables in my pc properly
<diddledan> as is I just shoved a shedload of cable-ties at it
<zmoylan-pi> bring bandaid and tcp
<daftykins> heh
<diddledan> the main atx and cpu power I think I can hide behind the board professional-like
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lhv5x4gx8fix535/7.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> i did mine nice 'n' tidy ;D
 * diddledan tears-up at the beauty
<zmoylan-pi> fancy
<daftykins> you're too kind!
<daftykins> that's the honkin' great new nvidia 1070 too
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points for resisting the urge to have blue leds or lite up cables everywhere :-)
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> no fur
<daftykins> you say that but 2 weeks in i did vacuum some Mischief from the front intakes behind the door ;)
<daftykins> hehe, yeah maybe in my youth but i don't like any of that daftness now
<daftykins> in fairness the mobo does have silly red LEDs that swoosh around, but it's all firmly disabled
<diddledan> my mobo has leds around the audio circuitry
<zmoylan-pi> red leds... bad but endurable.  blue are just annoying though
<diddledan> orange ones!
<daftykins> ah bless, with all this old core 2 junk i can finally upgrade my file server from 4GB RAM to 8GB
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> or i could run it with 4GB DDR3 instead of 2, as it's one of those funky DDR2 and 3 hybrid boards!
<daftykins> sadly only one at once, of course
<diddledan> I'm more happy than I thought I would be about being back on an intel cpu - I wonder why that gives me warm fuzzies?
<diddledan> intel ftw?
<daftykins> evil practices in the past, but things work :)
<zmoylan-pi> less evil than nvidia...
<daftykins> really? but intel did all that anti competitive marketing funds stuff
<zmoylan-pi> but linus cussed out nvidia :-)
<daftykins> weeeeell, Linux support is what it is :P
<daftykins> FOSS folk can have their underwear twisted whichever way they like, i agree it's a shame, but development time for 1 or 2% of your market? it's just business sense
<ali1234> nvidia puts a huge amount of development into linux
<ali1234> they just don't open source most of it
<ali1234> in the end though, it works far better than anything else
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> indeedy, nvidia'd be my choice if i ran a Loonix
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-14
<mappps> hi
<mappps> might start watching last ship
<daftykins> o0
<mappps> ;]
<mappps> you watch many shows
<daftykins> got a few i'm not finishing lately
<mapps> oh
<mapps> bored of them?
<daftykins> still doing a rewatch of Frasier for a light hearted disposable short episode one, at the mo
<daftykins> just picking hotels in the US <o/ \o> all booked to head over in September
<mapps> yay
<mapps> where and for how long
<daftykins> few cities, 3 weeks
<mapps> nice
<daftykins> gonna check out the Rocky Mountain National Park in Colorado \o/ be nice to see the nearby city of Boulder again, really liked that back in 2012
<mapps> sweet who you going with
<daftykins> meeting up with folks along the way really, heading out on my own
<daftykins> come October i'm gonna so hate planes ;)
<mapps> :D
<mapps> not scared of flying?
<mapps> some people hate take off
<daftykins> nah never been fussed
<daftykins> only fear was when we had our little planes where you'd be seated by weight
<daftykins> i'd always be next to my old girl and get talked half to death XD
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> whats with pokemon go
<mapps> people going mad for it..isnt pokemon for kids
<daftykins> my thoughts exactly
<daftykins> but i believe the people that are into it, were kids when it first came out
<mapps> hm
<mapps> still...
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's that it allows a generation of adults who grew up watching pokemon cartoons as kids to now play pokemon in real world
<knightwise> join #ubuntu-us
<daftykins> you traitor ;_;
<zmoylan-pi> might be doing it to correct their spelling... :-)
<knightwise> daftykins: :) Sorry bout that
<knightwise> There was nobody there anyway
<daftykins> oh is that a dead channel?
<daftykins> and don't worry, just teasing :D
<zmoylan-pi> us is so big they'd have to break it down state by state?
<daftykins> that's true, i think they may well do
<Myrtti> they do
<daftykins> i bet every one is idletown! :D
<knightwise>  A lot of irc channels are fairly ... quiet these days
<knightwise> been looking for some nice tech channels to monitor during the day
<knightwise> just to bash off boredom
<daftykins> ah yeah
<knightwise> hmm.. nice simple tutorial on an ssh vpn http://teohm.com/blog/2012/04/01/using-sshuttle-in-daily-work/
<corenominal> morning :)
<daftykins> \o
<knightwise> morning corenominal
<MooDoo> morning all
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> morning daftykins
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> hey davmor2
<daftykins> i hope we get some new exciting Jupiter pictures from NASA soon, they're really impressive
<brobostigon> hi kbingham
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<brobostigon> sorry kbingham
<knightwise> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpsQimYhNkA&feature=youtu.be
<knightwise> Music by Vangelis from the album "Alexander"
<kbingham> brobostigon: no worries :) Hello right back!
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> when i read Vangelis i wonder if it means the same creator as the Blade Runner soundtrack
<knightwise> yep it does
<knightwise> he also did the soundtrack for the rover mars mission
<knightwise> google Vangelis Mithodea
<daftykins> o0
<zmoylan-pi> also did some of the music for the original cosmos tv show with carl sagan.
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: correct.
<zmoylan-pi> loved that show as a kid... got it on dvd and loved it all over again.  watching him explain to a class room of kids ideas for detecting planets around other suns before we had was inspiring
 * knightwise has hit on his ipad
<knightwise> has IT
<zmoylan-pi> ripped and sitting on a hard drive here too
<zmoylan-pi> i really liked the new version with tyson but sagan to me was just better at inspiring wonder
<knightwise> sagan has "the voice"
<knightwise> "THE" voice
<zmoylan-pi> and his prediction of the ad blocker wars in contact was spot on
<knightwise> This is my favorite part from episode 1 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0QQJfPi3ps
<knightwise> This is where he flies in from beyond the galaxy to find us where we are
<knightwise> the track is not on the orginal cosmos album but is from Apocalypse des animaux
<daftykins> yay my optical only took about 10 prods of eject before it opened this time \o/
<knightwise> daftykins: tried raping it with a paperclip ?
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> i think the motor rubber band type thing is somehow slipping, i've seen this on a few drives now once they hit almost a decade old
<knightwise> daftykins: what machine are you using
<knightwise> (and why do you still need an optical disk ? )
<daftykins> i'm ripping an old 70s compilation for a client, to FLAC
<daftykins> i'd always push buying CD and ripping if FLAC can't be bought directly (for this client, more of an audiophile type with bags of money)
<daftykins> aaaaand... it's a Pioneer DVR-215D in my file server
<daftykins> i did have an ancient NEC ND-3520A but the laser stopped focussing so i had to ditch it
<daftykins> DVD still works, but not CD :>
<knightwise>  daftykins how about using an external usb one ,
<daftykins> i don't think changing the bus would help anything
<daftykins> ah i'm so glad this set of discs aren't as damaged
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Basille Day! ð
<daftykins> Basille Brush?!
<JamesTait> Mais oui!
<JamesTait> I can blame my fingers for the poor typing, but my eyes are fine today. :-/
<daftykins> :)
<JamesTait> When I woke up this morning I'd been lying on my left arm, apparently for some time as it was completely dead.  I still can't feel it properly from the elbow down.
<JamesTait> Which makes typing just that bit more challenging.
<daftykins> ah, bit of Saturday night arm
<daftykins> might not hurt to do some swinging around of said arm and fast finger flapping as if "air-typing" to try and speed up the circulation return :D
<JamesTait> Yeah, I've been trying all kinds of things to get the blood flowing again, but to no avail so far.
<foobarry> squeezing a squash ball
<foobarry> i have a powerball somehwere. those things are great
<zmoylan-pi> i got a mate a nice stress ball tardis for a tenner a few weeks back.  his commute is horrible
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> what is this "commute" ? i only know the other side of the island and back again!
<zmoylan-pi> what happens when they take the roads in for the winter? :-)
<daftykins> oh the island closes for winter, sir
<daftykins> Great Uncle Bulgaria decrees it is time to put down tools and hibernate
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.amazon.com/Underground-Toys-B02R1063-TARDIS-Stress/dp/B00AQFW3V8
<daftykins> ah pants, i just gave away our secret government structure
 * JamesTait considers his 8-metre commute quite long enough.
 * zmoylan-pi wonders what speed JamesTait plays his podcasts at to get through them on his commute... :-P
 * JamesTait wonders why the rest of the world doesn't sound like chipmunks.
<zmoylan-pi> all the helium escaped
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKBfqdbki0k
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think that covers us right :D
<JamesTait> Well played, davmor2. âº
<davmor2> How to ruin the celebration of a French revolution by making it English again it's the only way :D
<xxx_34255> I have a problem  with my nm aplet[ I use ubuntu 16.04]. When I try to connect to hidden wifi network the connect button is  greyed.Any help?
<daftykins> what about creating a manual one and entering its' name?
<daftykins> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1542733
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1542733 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Connect to Hidden Wi-Fi Network, "Connect" grayed out" [High,Confirmed]
<daftykins> confirmed bug
<daftykins> "workaround is: nmcli c up id <WiFiSSID> "
<xxx_34255> I erased the the network and  reconnected. but when I tried to connect  to hidden wifi network from nm applet the same problem appeard again
<daftykins> yes, the bug explains that, see above
<daftykins> or if you have control over the network, don't hide the SSID - it's not a security benefit
<xxx_34255> yes I saw it in launchpad but is there any status for the future correction of this bug?
<daftykins> no
<daftykins> you can put the above command in a script as a workaround
<daftykins> so grateful!
 * zmoylan-pi hands daftykins a generic penguin bar and a mug of tea in compensation
<daftykins> yay!
<daftykins> wait... small mcvities chocolate bar, or is this penguin meat?
 * daftykins squints at zmoylan-pi 
<zmoylan-pi> aldi penguin knock off bars called seal bars
<daftykins> zomg do those really exist?
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.foodstufffinds.co.uk/2014/04/aldi-seal-bars-chocolate-biscuits.html
<daftykins> cor
<daftykins> we don't have an aldi or lidl, else i'd have to pick one up to see if it... gets the seal of approval
<zmoylan-pi> it's the 21st century, gotta love the generic cheap knockoffs
<TwistedLucidity> Probably comes out of the same factory
<zmoylan-pi> what sort of barren wasteland do you live in? :-P  even with my wonky leg and slow speed i can get to 2 tescos, 2 super valus, 2 lidls and an aldi and back in <2 hours-ish
<daftykins> we have none o' those
<daftykins> you name it we've not got it!
<daftykins> step this way to peruse the wares of "that bloke what has the fish, etc" or this way for "the geezer with the meat"
<zmoylan-pi> oh we have those too.
<daftykins> ah i wanted to portray that the local signs are so backwards they'd literally read as the above
<zmoylan-pi> i didn't know till recently but old irish shop signs were required by law to have the family name on them for some reason.  mostly pubs but in rural areas they were also the shops, post office, farm equipment suppliers
<daftykins> o0
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: I think daftykins is living in the wrong time....
<zmoylan-pi> you'd walk in for a pack of polo and end up at back of the shop looking at new plough... impulse sales... :-P
<daftykins> i'm just living plain wrong! :D
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: what's the Irish version of 'oo-arr' ?
<TwistedLucidity> Shops should, under penalty of death, be required to display their number and street.
<zmoylan-pi> well in ireland some streets have no names.  or numbers
<TwistedLucidity>  /\ A minor pet peeve of mine is the horrendous nature of street signage in the UK
<TwistedLucidity> "We are at 123 Somewhere Street". Well...great...there's no visible street signs for a 10 mile radius. Helpful.
<zmoylan-pi> had norwegian living in small lane with 3 houses with same number on it.  it amazed him that postal service always got his post there and didn't mix it up
<zmoylan-pi> but we've just spent â¬38m on a post code system that after a year almost no one is using.
<daftykins> good to know IT projects fail spectacularly over there, too
<zmoylan-pi> we had electronic voting for a while too... it used ms access so you knew it was /special/
<foobarry> just bought a burglar alarm :S
<foobarry> got to the point where i'm the only one inthe street without one
<zmoylan-pi> a rottweiler?
<foobarry> have a friendly doggy but bougt an electronic one
<foobarry> spending spree this month
<TwistedLucidity> Change the locks as well. Semi-decent anti-bumpd/snap/pick can be had for ~Â£25
<Seeker`> foobarry: it's an anti-burglar arms race!
<davmor2> foobarry: oh you got one of these http://gizmodo.com/hyper-little-dog-bot-might-be-the-worlds-first-robot-ch-1783586849
<TwistedLucidity> PIR security lights are cheap too
<foobarry> but useless
<Seeker`> now you've got one, they'll all have to upgrade to make sure they don't have the least secure house in the street
<TwistedLucidity> Ours work....
<foobarry> if you are in bed
<TwistedLucidity> Seeker`: It pretty much is. You can't make the place impentrable, only the least easy to break into
<foobarry> then it just lights up the area for teh bad guy to see
<TwistedLucidity> And to be see
<TwistedLucidity> n
<TwistedLucidity> It's also a warning "I though about fitting this to my house, what else did I think about?"
<zmoylan-pi> i love pir lights as it means i can walk around house at night without having to turn lights on and off as one hand is usually on hand rail due to wonky leg and other hand is often carrying something so never a hand free
<TwistedLucidity> Same with a decent(ish) lock. It's a sign you've thought to some degree about security; less hassle to go elsewhere.
<foobarry> i have a chubb lock
<foobarry> aren't they quite secure?
<foobarry> say yes please
<TwistedLucidity> Depends
<zmoylan-pi> there are no secure locks. there are merely locks that more hassle to bypass
<TwistedLucidity>  /\ That
<foobarry> the guy who wanted to get in my shed REALLY wanted to get in
<foobarry> smahed a load of tools doing so
<zmoylan-pi> what you are doing is not detering criminals but telling them to go to some less defended location
<TwistedLucidity> Exactly.
<TwistedLucidity> Chubb do make good locks. Even Yale make good locks. It all depends on exactly what was bought, how it was fitted and what it was fitted into.
<foobarry> Myrtti might be interseted in my wifes new acquisition
 * daftykins raises an eyebrow
<foobarry> she got an overlocker for dressmaking
<Myrtti> uuuuuhhh
<foobarry> rather than an overclocker
<Myrtti> nice
<foobarry> which my fingers want to type
<daftykins> :)
<Myrtti> I just want to upcycle old towels and jumpers for my own nefarious uses
<daftykins> how would one overclock a dress... tune in next time, on #ubuntu-uk
<foobarry> do dooo do dooo
<foobarry> ...right
<zmoylan-pi> i think lilli ann over clocked suits in the 50s... https://www.flickr.com/photos/53035820@N02/5180613214/
<daftykins> o0
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: steam punkers would have a field day with that
<daftykins> yep, tough to iron indeed
<daftykins> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i think if that suit showed a wrinkle you get you money back
<daftykins> you don't get confident marketing like that anymore
<foobarry> get a steel version of that in skyrim
<foobarry> .win 9
<DJones> What.... http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/apple-rumour-buy-formula-1-use-f1-promote-apple-car?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
<knightwise> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJZzkAtJqKY
<knightwise> here you go :) Some random tune :) Eminem + ... an accordeon
<DJones> Wonder if the drivers will have to listen to itunes in their helmets whiledriving at 200mph
<zmoylan-pi> speed metal?
<knightwise> Next iphone won't have an audiojack connector
<knightwise> Drm is coming baby
<zmoylan-pi> this is news again?
<knightwise> not really but the implementations are a little frightening.
<knightwise> this phone wont playback that ripped mp3
<zmoylan-pi> bt headphones are ok, but means i can't listen to fm radio on my phones which is a real loss
<zmoylan-pi> means that really expensive headphones people just bought are obsolete or will need an ugly convertor
<zmoylan-pi> if anyone can move the industry away from normal head phone jacks it's apple but i really hope they fail
<knightwise> hmm.. i hope so
<foobarry> will it be usb3?
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be usb 6 which is twice as good, it'll just need a wacky apple cable with 2 usb3 headers and costs 100 quid to replace :-P
<zmoylan-pi> you'll also probably need a new mac laptop to be able to connect to it... :-D
<awilkins> AppleTalk for headphones
<awilkins> All audio is written as scripts
<imexil> looking at popey's snapcraft screencast I was wondering if there also exits a snap for simplescreenrecorder ;-)
<imexil> just noticed probably wrong channel.
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> http://interestingengineering.com/code-moon-landings-released-surprising-hilarious/
<foobarry> is there a supported way of downloading youtube vids onto my tablet for offline viewing?
<foobarry> or is that what youtube red is for?
<ali1234> click on "watch later"
<BigRedS> foobarry: I don't think you can do it offline, you always need enough of a connection to let Google check you're still allowed to watch it
<BigRedS> but you can make it download the data in preparation
<foobarry> i found a site that lets me download it
<foobarry> ru.savefrom.net lets you paste a link
<DJones> Hmmh, gocompare.com looks like its sells email addresses to 3rd parties despite being told not to pass on details to them
<foobarry> ewww
<foobarry> and not meerkats
<foobarry> i got a superman one. my wife is so happy with it
<DJones> Getting unsolicated spam email from swinton insurance to an email address only given to gocompare
<foobarry> might not be gocompares fault
<foobarry> swinton may not honour an API/form setting
<foobarry> when gocompare does its search
<DJones> So, hacking by negligence then
<awilkins> Naah, if you say you don't want to expose information and you do, it's your fault
<awilkins> (gocompare)
<DJones> In that case it'd be the website fault for exposin the info
<awilkins> Indeed
<foobarry> swinton may require it
<foobarry> ali1234: watch later only tags a video, rather than downloads it
<diddledan> is it just me, or is this entire email incoherent? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-July/016735.html
<diddledan> I can't figure-out anything he's trying to say
<ali1234> he's trying to say that secure boot is pointless for nearly all usecases
<diddledan> https://medium.com/@karthikb351/airtel-is-sniffing-and-censoring-cloudflares-traffic-in-india-and-they-don-t-even-know-it-90935f7f6d98#.d4bi42j71
<diddledan> pokÃ©mon song: https://youtu.be/zbKV4YzLP4o
<diddledan> bad voltage podcast today has a good discussion over the brexit vote and the parallels with american politics right now.
<zmoylan-pi> translation: letting the average person vote never ends well... :-P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I find it interesting that most of the techy people I know were remainers
<diddledan> and the non techy ones were more leaning toward leave
<zmoylan-pi> linux people hate forking... :-P
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> good news everybody: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36800334
<brmbrmcar> ooh
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry, may will give the americans anything they aren't allowed collect anymore
<brmbrmcar> :(
<diddledan> the servers are in Ireland
<zmoylan-pi> all the undersea cables running into and out of ireland have uk money in them
<diddledan> wait, what? I just found out boris jonhston is the foreign secretary?!
<diddledan> I guess he did get a job out of the mess then, after all
<zmoylan-pi> now he gets to be sent to turkey to see their president... after his poem...
<diddledan> http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/a-map-of-all-the-countries-boris-johnson-has-offended--W1zaTLC63rW
<ali1234> pretty obvious in hindsight that he quit the leadership contest because he was offered this job
<zmoylan-pi> will look good on future attempt at pm job
<MooDoo> evening
<diddledan> dammit. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/truck-crashes-into-crowd-at-bastille-day-celebrations-in-nice2/
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-15
<daftykins> no break for France :/
<knightwise> morning daftykins
<diplo> Morning all
<corenominal> morning :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , davmor2
<knightwise> How are you guys doin today
<davmor2> I'm at the caravan so I have cares today how about you guys
<knightwise> davmor2: I envy you. At work today. kindof a slow day.
<davmor2> knightwise: I'm still at work just at the caravan :)
<knightwise> davmor2: at the current client working from home isnt supported , otherwise I would be working from inside a tent today :)
<MooDoo> knightwise: i'm doing ok thanks :D
<knightwise> Any geeky things you guys are working on this weekend ?
<davmor2> no downtime at the weekend in the caravan
<MooDoo> knightwise: might convert all my servers from debian to ubuntu...not sure yet though :)
<knightwise> :) Might give my raspberry pi2 another go as a retropi gaming system
<davmor2> MooDoo: why can't you leave those poor servers alone already
<MooDoo> davmor2: i like to play :D
<knightwise> i'll probably take my laptop in my backpack and go cycle to Maastricht this weekend.
<knightwise> (Maastricht = netherlands)
<MooDoo> ooo nice :D
<knightwise> I live about 15 km from Maastricht so ...
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Give Something Away Day! ð
 * knightwise gives away his remaining workload to somebody else
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gck-lFLsI1I
<davmor2> JamesTait: think that covers it all :D
<JamesTait> Another solid effort, davmor2.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> morning bigcalm how are you?
<bigcalm> davmor2: tip-top ta. Think I've been neglecting social stuff and thought I should pop my head in. How's you?
<davmor2> bigcalm: fairly chilled at the minute I'm at the caravan working today
<bigcalm> Down sized to a caravan or on 'holiday'?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no chill out at the weekend in the caravan we decided to come a day earlier though
<bigcalm> Cool
<davmor2> bigcalm: you in shrewsbury today?
<bigcalm> davmor2: indeed so. I'm normally at home on Fridays, but needed to give Hayley a lift in as she's off for the weekend from here
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh fancy
<davmor2> bigcalm: well if you want to drop in for a cuppa before you head home feel free :)  We're just off the newport road :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: how much did you get for your 407?
<bigcalm> Haven't yet put mine on the market, need to asap before it rusts its value down the drain
<davmor2> Â£3200 iirc but that was part exchange against a newer motor
<bigcalm> davmor2: cool. B5602?
<bigcalm> davmor2: goodness. I'll be lucky to get 2k I think
<bigcalm> I guess you did yours a while ago now
<davmor2> bigcalm: 2 years
<bigcalm> Yeah, makes sense
<bigcalm> I'm driving my parent's spare 53 reg Corsa. I miss the comfort of the 407
<davmor2> we're about to upgrade again too as soon as it arrives from the factory :D
<daftykins> knightwise: sorry i'd just gone to bed then :D
<daftykins> just been told Guernsey post bound for Jersey goes via England - what a world we live in
<zmoylan-pi> all post in irland is sent to the middle of the country to a humongus sorting office.  seems a bit weird but centralisation for somethings pays off
<daftykins> they probably had to outsource the sorting because when the UK government blocked Low Value Consignment Relief (LVCR) - which meant items Â£20 and under weren't liable for VAT on import to the UK (a practice used to great benefit by HMV, 7dayshop and play.com back in the day) - it trashed the income to Guernsey Post
<davmor2> daftykins: it will go to one of the southern sorting offices and be put with the rest of the mail from  the uk/world and then delivered out from there it's more cost efficient that way
<daftykins> *nod*
<foobarry> got my shipment: http://imgur.com/a/wrzpp
<daftykins> excellent! not sure how the dog is going to hold it, though
<foobarry> its got a strap
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> dog getting a haircut soon
<zmoylan-pi> a sled harness and tie a plush rabbit to the metal detector  and hang it over the front of the dog so he chases the rabbit... simple
<daftykins> oof just hit alt+5 to change window in irssi but had a music tagging program as the active window, disabled the main function and had to hunt for a moment XD
<knightwise> @Damn
<knightwise> just got ambushed by a national Tv crew
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> not PokÃ©moning were you? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> worse, updating his my little pony blog...
 * daftykins gasps
<zmoylan-pi> ...on a windows phone...
 * daftykins gasps again!
 * knightwise throws computer in the fire after reading this
<zmoylan-pi> wearing a 'os/2 forever' t-shirt
<daftykins> now i understand why that was worthy of national TV attention!
<daftykins> a client has a really amusing situation in his kitchen, the TV in there loses its' freeview signal when the AV receiver amp hooked up to it is turned on
<davmor2> daftykins, zmoylan-pi: you'll notice that knightwise only got upset when you said windows phone so the rest must of been accurate ;)
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect i'd use a windows phone as my next hammer if i was required to use one for some reason
<knightwise> daftykins: And i wasn't pokemoning OR updating my little pony blog
<knightwise> I don't blog about MLP
<knightwise> I have a cosplay fan-fic videoseries on youtube
<knightwise> you all know that
<daftykins> wishful thinking on zmoylan-pi's part, i suspect
<davmor2> knightwise: you were setting up yugi-oh card swaps weren't you
<knightwise> Yep
 * zmoylan-pi checks to see were the pokemon go players fall on the old geek hierarchy... :-P http://brunching.com/geekhierarchy.html
<daftykins> "ooh my, dead last"
<foobarry> did anyone see that news item about numbered bees?
<foobarry> tags had been stuck on them and you have to report if you saw them?
<daftykins> XD
<foobarry> i found one :D
<zmoylan-pi> could be worse, they could have given every bee an email address..... :-)
<daftykins> oh wow, was it really so agreeable to have its' label read, foobarry ?
<foobarry> yes, it was busy on a flower
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: every one has its' own IPv6 range
<foobarry> the tag is a label on the back
<zmoylan-pi> is their a pic so i can keep an eye out for what we're looking for?
<foobarry> http://www.qmul.ac.uk/savelondonbees/view-interactive-sightings-map/
<zmoylan-pi> saw a bee last week that could have advertising hoarding on the side it was so big...
<foobarry> click on a map marker
<foobarry> http://www.qmul.ac.uk/savelondonbees/#form
<foobarry> the banner pic also
<zmoylan-pi> that's pretty cool.
<foobarry> science proves that some bees are lazy and don't go far from the hive
<foobarry> some do
<foobarry> one joined another colony
<zmoylan-pi> splitter
<zmoylan-pi> or just wanted a shorter commute
<daftykins> didn't like the way the hive was run
<foobarry> had a change of hive mind
<daftykins> ooh that was a good one!
<foobarry> the others told him to buzz off
<daftykins> their comments put quite a sting in his tail
<foobarry> found a new honey
<foobarry> ok, i'll stop now
<DJones> Ilike this image from farcebook about pokeman https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13731649_10209280682115794_4702287664274002221_n.jpg?oh=8cc91112eec1b61d965e6ceb1c05a3c6&oe=57EC155A
<TwistedLucidity> DJones: Heh, I just tried it and uninstalled it again. Unplayable rubbish.
<DJones> I won;t be installing it anyway
<DJones> I was too old for pokemon when it first came out
<TwistedLucidity> The permissions it want's are....interesting
<TwistedLucidity> e.g. All your contacts
<DJones> Heh, 1st born son etc
<TwistedLucidity> Pretty much. Wanted my D.o.B.; I can't recollect what lie I told it
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: you told it you were a japanese schoolchild
<foobarry> http://www.memepile.com/pics/11496-o.png
<foobarry> another pokemon pic
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> the internet is mad about pokÃ©mon right nowe
<daftykins> just seen some ex students playing pokÃ©mon above the town highstreet just beside me, i said "tone it down before you get desperate enough to buy a battery pack guys" to which they then pulled out their packs...
<foobarry> only because the media tell them to
<foobarry> so much hype, so many sheep
<daftykins> ikr
<TwistedLucidity> Dunno. A mate got into Ingres and lost a serious amount of weight doing it. There can be upsides.
<daftykins> what's that?
<daftykins> yeah, the getting out and about thing can probably be good
<TwistedLucidity> Predate PokÃ©mon but same itdea
<TwistedLucidity> Control nodes/sectors for your team etc
<daftykins> ah - it would be ok if the subject matter were something a bit more grown up
<TwistedLucidity> I think Ingress is all about portal or something. Not played it myself.
<diddledan> but. daylight hurts my eyes!
<daftykins> judging by all the zombies strolling around town last night, i doubt you need to worry about that ;)
<daftykins> some sad blighters were even sat in their cars parked up
<TwistedLucidity> Meh, so long as it doesn't harm others; I'm none too fussed.
<TwistedLucidity> Look at use freaks "hanging out" in a textchat....
<daftykins> well as a cyclist i'm sure the addicts in cars will find a way to annoy, such as sudden stops
<diddledan> I think itâs terrible that people talk in text chat rooms on âIRC"
<diddledan> itâs where hackers hang-out!
<Seeker`> daftykins: it's not that childish
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/O2rGTXHvPCQ
<daftykins> if you say so :)
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: If it's the driver, they should be dealt with in the same way mobile phone use currently is(n't)
<TwistedLucidity> "no evidence"....whut?
<daftykins> just a trail o' bodies
<TwistedLucidity> "Dead men don't talk" "As a forensic scientist, I beg to differ..."
<dwatkins> I'm trying to forget that scene with two people stabbing at either end of a keyboard
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msX4oAXpvUE
<diddledan> dwatkins: ^^ some eyebleach
<dwatkins> I wish network security was this rock 'n roll.
<dwatkins> More people would care about it if it were.
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> mr robot started this week
<diddledan> very compelling story, mr robot
<daftykins> <o/ \o>
<diddledan> daftykins: fencing match?
<daftykins> quick armpit check ;)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> yeah looking forward to some more o' that
<dwatkins> Agreed, I thoroughly enjoyed Mr Robot.
<daftykins> right time to battle some more old LGA775 kit
<diddledan> that one made me actually laugh physically rather than just thinking âthatâs amusing, Iâm going to type âlolâ."
<daftykins> swapped that blown cap motherboard but still not getting POST
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i aim to please
<diddledan> Iâm going to tweet that!
<diddledan> it has been twitted
<daftykins> well this is a new one, old board with an intel core 2 duo E7400 in says it wants a BIOS update as it doesn't recognise the CPU - that's fair enough, but it won't even POST with two RAM modules in like this, only one
<diddledan> wha?
<diddledan> I didnât know BIOS could tell you they were out of date
<daftykins> lack of an entry for a given chip in the microcode tables i guess
<daftykins> if that's even how they work... anyway this mobo has fried USB so i've got no way to update it that's worthy of my time
<daftykins> tum te tum and fiddle-dee-dee
 * diddledan fiddles daftykinsâ dee
<daftykins> as George Takei would say, "Eau my"
<diddledan> heâs awesome
<daftykins> he is quite
<daftykins> not long ago i had my first full viewing of Star Trek TOS, good stuff
<diddledan> bruceâs willi has a new movie on iTunes rental which is still in the cinema. called âprevious cargoâ. Iâm looking for a youtube trailer, gimme a sec.
<diddledan> try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeWk106Izyc
<diddledan> a slightly longer one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWnrow_02mA
<diddledan> obviously I misspelt precious
<daftykins> perhaps my pokÃ©mon just come in a different shape - https://www.dropbox.com/s/k7cbom2p3s7vakr/IMG_20160715_170638.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> yay this one is behaving itself, how quirky
<daftykins> isn't it odd when you bash your head against a problem for ages solving nothing, but then come back to it at a later date and it behaves? o0 very odd.
<daftykins> funny this board, OSs randomise MAC address as they for some reason can't read the real one
<daftykins> already on the newest BIOS so i can't try reflashing unless there'd be a way to force it :(
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> http://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/07/15/notice-of-security-breach-on-ubuntu-forums/ - know about this?
<daftykins> so that's why they were down
<MooDoo> :(
<diddledan> MooDoo: thatâs a really good response
<diddledan> would that more companies take security breach as responsibly
<daftykins> little concerned they weren't already up to date ;)
<diddledan> they admitted their fault though
<diddledan> other companies would try to avoid owning-up to that error
<MooDoo> doesn't concern me to be honest, they know what they are doing i'm confident on their actions
<Laney> urgh
<Laney> I would hate to be running a large webapp like that
<daftykins> could be a fun challenge! although i got quite frustrating dealing with that guys web server that kept getting hammered for possible wordpress exploits
<daftykins> tonnes of POSTs to the xmlrpc function
<daftykins> i reckon i'd like to learn to solder!
<daftykins> it's just too useful a skill
<diddledan> I got an iron for xmas!
<diddledan> https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/69461762.jpg
<diddledan> which means that my server now falls into this category: https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/69461865.jpg
<daftykins> =]
<diddledan> https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/alpha-vs-pro-judgement-day/
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> hrmm ok all rebuilt, expletive expressed when i made the schoolboy error of letting two IO backplate grounding legs sit inside the onboard LAN socket instead of on top, board released again and rectified ;)
<zmoylan-pi> of course by the time the military complex has an offical release it'll cost a smidge more than a rasp pi
<daftykins> back to only POSTing with one module! very odd
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: about 50mill per unit without factoring-in the cost of the plane
<zmoylan-pi> 100m if you want it in f35
<diddledan> daftykins: I remember building a system and thinking the thing was completely DOA. turns-out BIOSes donât like to work when their âclear cmosâ button on the back is pushed-in by a misaligned IO-plate.
<diddledan> took me DAYS to work that out
<zmoylan-pi> or rivet under motherboard making contact with metal case and soldering join. we have no idea how that made it in there...
<daftykins> diddledan: doh!
<daftykins> hexy had a similar one where the reset FPIO header was permanently engaged
<diddledan> wtf? turkey is having a coup
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-36811357
<zmoylan-pi> if eragon was still in power twitter would have been first thing to be shut down...
<zmoylan-pi> ah ha. facebook, youtube AND twitter blocked in turkey...
<diddledan> really?
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: mixed reports of that
<MartijnVdS> some say it's only a DNS block and 8.8.8.8 (Google DNS) works
<zmoylan-pi> these counties blocking internet often do it in way that takes average teenager 2-3 minutes to bypass... just can't get the dictators these days...
<MartijnVdS> dnssec will make those dictators so angry :)
<MartijnVdS> can't change/block DNS info then
<zmoylan-pi> link to twitter account that lists turkeys blocking...  https://twitter.com/TurkeyBlocks/status/754043966547431424
<MartijnVdS> I'm following this:
<MartijnVdS> https://www.reddit.com/live/x9gf3donjlkq
<MartijnVdS> it says:
<MartijnVdS> ALL social networks and allegedly blocked sites are ACCESSIBLE through the Google DNS servers (8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4). Look online to check how to change your DNS servers. You do not need a VPN yet! /u/trumpete
<diddledan> how long until the BGP routes are removed?
<daftykins> yay for installing ubuntu on a 40GB old intel value SSD in this core 2 duo, with its' working 8GB RAM :)
<zmoylan-pi> you'll just have to slum it on that hardware...
<daftykins> not me that has to use it :D
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think i could use a main system with less than 100gb these days...
<zmoylan-pi> even on phones i find 32gb a little small
<brmbrmcar> I have on;y 3.6GB on this full computer...
<daftykins> then you must not do much with it :)
<zmoylan-pi> i do have a rasp pi running on a 4gb card... but i use it as a supplement to my main system
<zmoylan-pi> i think it has 1gb atm
<zmoylan-pi> *1gb free atm
<daftykins> i'd quite like to pick up one to run as a network music / internet radio streamer, someone has made a project of making one work as a Logitech Squeezebox :)
<daftykins> if i put it in my lounge, i could have it and my bedroom real squeezebox play in sync
<ali1234> i'm building a upnp media player that displays rss feeds
<ali1234> like, right now
<daftykins> nice :)
<daftykins> do you have a target device in mind?
<ali1234> yes, raspberry pi
<daftykins> *gasp*
<daftykins> that would be very interesting
<ali1234> it's just a simple QML app
<daftykins> even more so if it could speak samba, but that'd probably sound horrible to others
<ali1234> the media playing is done with gmediarenderer
<ali1234> you control it with a upnp client on your phone
<ali1234> just stick a upnp media server on your nas and you don't need samba
<daftykins> yeah i wouldn't want to do that, my Kodi device(s) already just browse via SMB
<ali1234> this device is intended to be non-interactive
<daftykins> and i don't like automagic protocols
<ali1234> it's going to be installed behind a mirror in a bathroom cabinet
<zmoylan-pi> what about moisture?
<daftykins> mmm the Squeezebox thing i mention would speak to the existing Logitech Media Server which essentially is a device specific UPnP server i think, controlled by my phone app
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: that's what boxes are for
<ali1234> anyway... i'm quite pleased with the QML stuff so far
<zmoylan-pi> just that living in ireland i've seen weather proof cameras die from water... :-)
<ali1234> i need to implement a thing to just display what song is playing on the local renderer
<ali1234> it's going in a bathroom not outside :)
<ali1234> moisture probably won't be a problem since it will heat up it's enclosure
<ali1234> so no condensation
<zmoylan-pi> warm steam can make waterproof hardward a bit more of a challenge
<ali1234> it's a pi 3 so it can get nice and toasty
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed it works.
<ali1234> the player in there now has worked fine for years
<ali1234> like 7 years
<ali1234> and the new one is going in the same type of box
<ali1234> so i' sure it will be fine
<ali1234> anyway it isn't my problem if it breaks
<ali1234> i'm just building it to spec
<zmoylan-pi> i have an ancient 30yo sony fm radio walkman in bathroom.  and it works.  but screws on it are rusted to buggery.  i'd hate to try a more delicate arm processor
<ali1234> what makes you think processors are delicate?
<ali1234> the die is sealed in epoxy
<ali1234> it's not going to be the CPU that breaks due to moisture
<ali1234> it's going to be the circuit boards
<ali1234> and those are mostly coated
<ali1234> so then the next thing will be the solder joints
<daftykins> could you just coat a board in super glue to help out even more?
<ali1234> sure
<daftykins> other than heat sensitive parts, perhaps
<ali1234> not super glue, you can get special coatings for that
<ali1234> or you can just pot the entire board
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen cpm computers handle horrible conditions, i've seen xts, 286s, 386s and 486s handle horrible conditions, but a lot of the hardware since then is much more delicate.
<ali1234> ie put it in a plastic box and then fill the box with epoxy
<ali1234> but much easier to just get a waterproof box and seal the connectors
<ali1234> that way you can take it out again if you need to
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: it's a real shame that, but given the speeds components are operating at i'm not entirely surprised
<zmoylan-pi> my brother used to run a drain clearing business.  he had a little robot camera that was sent into drain to isolate problems.  some were tanks designed to resist all manners of damage from liquids.  but his best one was a german one that used an air bladder to over pressurise insides to force contaminants out
<ali1234> i don't think modern stuff is more delicate to be honest. certainly not when it comes to static electricity
<ali1234> static isn't really a problem any more for chips on boards
<ali1234> surface mount components are smaller, lighter, so less likely to die from physical force/vibration etc
<zmoylan-pi> i do remember when we were looking at the russian dos they use on satellites that they only ran it on 486s as anything better than that would be fritzed by solar radiation
<ali1234> solar radiation is a whole other thing
<ali1234> they used a special hardened 486 chip for that
<ali1234> it's not like the regular one just happened to be treally tough
<zmoylan-pi> the passive cooling of pentiums 1-2's we had in pos systems worked ok ish but once fan cooling came in for pentium iiis they didn't last long in point of sales in ordinary cases
<ali1234> yep, fans die
<ali1234> they get full of dirt and then they stop and then the computer dies
<ali1234> luckily raspberry pi doesn't need one
<ali1234> another modern thing is electrolytic caps are no used much less
<ali1234> those wear out, ceramic caps don't
<ali1234> and they can make ceramic caps big enough now that they don't need to use electrolytics so much
<daftykins> just as i found out the other day :)
<daftykins> (my understanding is those battery looking ones are the electrolytic type)
<zmoylan-pi> my understanding is that the battery looking caps are now often cheap chinese variants that are terrible
<daftykins> ali1234: you know my bad caps pic? do you think those failures could have damaged the graphics card?
<daftykins> since they were right beside the PEG slot
<daftykins> nevermind! it was me being an idiot, i moved the PC and the monitor cable had come out :P
<daftykins> glad :)
<ali1234> daftykins: it is possible but unlikely
<ali1234> when caps blow they can leak. it can spray out all over
<ali1234> those don't look like they did that though
<daftykins> nah, quite clean
<daftykins> it's all good, just jumped to conclusions instead of applying occam's razor
<m0nkey_> :/
<m0nkey_> storm rolling in here
<m0nkey_> power has gone out twice
<m0nkey_> yay for UPSs
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> agreed
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-16
<daftykins> these are the planes we use a lot to get off the island, my aircraft engineer mate was showing us this Taiwan crash last night - http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03187/transasia-plane_3187308k.jpg
<daftykins> they ignored all procedure and then turned off the wrong engine... scary stuff
<daftykins> (one already had problems)
<zmoylan-pi> people in a panic often do the worst thing
<daftykins> heh yeah, but pilots are trained "if in doubt do nothing" apparently
<zmoylan-pi> even pilots/doctors make mistakes/panic.
<zmoylan-pi> the best you can do is drill into them good practices
<zmoylan-pi> checklists
<daftykins> yeah he mentioned the checklist is the #1 thing
<daftykins> anywho, must sleep! nn o/
<zmoylan-pi> sleep well o/
<diddledan> turkey is still ongoing
<diddledan> Iâm gonna have to sleep soon though
<SebthreeBQM10HD> z
<SebthreeBQM10HD> d
<mapps> morning all
<SuperEngineer> o/
<mapps> so full up, went for breakfast ater work at the sunbourn ugh
<SuperEngineer> well, if you will have a five course breakfast, that's going to happen ;-)
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> got to sleep at some point (work nights)
<knightwise> good night mapps ,
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperEngineer> o/ MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> psst... it was Jono who hacked the forums [in alliance with some bloke called Linus, apparently].  Must be true; SuperEngineer told me it was ;-)
<Dreamsy> Sup Worlds, is there a method of stopping (on tablet) it threatening to close my firefox/xchat sessions if my keyboard/mouse go to sleep?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, The Ubuntu tablet?
<Dreamsy> yep the m10 fhd
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, the Libertine stuff isn't native so
<Dreamsy> I've not installed that (yet) firefox and xchat are native
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, no probably not really or as such at the moment in answer to your quesiton
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, no they are not, they are in the purtine demo of Libertine stuff
<Dreamsy> ... they where installed on the tablet, unless you mean not baked in in the sense of "official support"
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, hence why got to use a blue tooth keyboard for them currently to type for example, however I think the on screen keyboard fix is coming in the update next week where those will work like that then :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, I mean as in the senes of not being a native program such as say the default browser, or camera program etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> not something properly made for Ubuntu TOUCH as part of the OS properly
<Dreamsy> right >> darn it (yay scope crash!)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, Libertine is a interesting add on, xmir stuff,  but will become more like it's a part of the actsual OS  in the future
<SebthreeBQM10HD> for example will be able to actsually click links in xchat in the future :D I think the next OTA not next weeks.  and eventually a seperate app store will come for Libertine/xmir programs even
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, persoanlly I find all that more exciting than their convergence idea
<Dreamsy> Can't wait for chromium ;-;
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, you could actsually have that already, but would have to use like a hack thing
<SebthreeBQM10HD> to do that
<SebthreeBQM10HD> like edit the libertine container to add your addional programs etc and then put an icon on the thing yourself
<SebthreeBQM10HD> basically
<SuperEngineer> Dreamsy: re "if my keyboard/mouse go to sleep?".... pour coffee on them, slap them [gently] on the cheeks, converse with them, tell them sleeping is for wimps.  Do whatever it takes to stop them sleeping.
<Dreamsy> SuperEngineer, +1
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, and give them to super to do weird things with!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> to SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> :-D
<Dreamsy> SuperEngineer, ping them every ... I don't know how long
<Dreamsy> SuperEngineer, Cattle Prod
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, I think Libertine/xmir for now doesn't really have much control over OS features like being able to control suspend etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, but yes maybe in a future update wil have some more control over that
<Dreamsy> but you've seen it your end? where it threatens to close xchat or firefox? ><
<SuperEngineer> Cattle prod.. I hadn't thought of that one.. electic fence, aim, throw - that might work as well
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, it's a bit like if yu play  music in Firefox in tablet mode or whatever it was, then go off that, it stops playing music, since it can't access the thing that plays music properly, or whatever it was
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, nope FIrefox and Xchat have both mostly worked well for me on the HD
<Dreamsy> not tried...
 * Dreamsy tries
<SebthreeBQM10HD> somtiems issues with trying to type with xchat though or something like that, but probably to do with my keyboard
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, imagine being able to more offically be able to run lots of standard Desktop LInux programs, well that have been ported over to ARM, yep awesome :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well that will be coming in the future :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> maybe that will stop the debate more about if Ubuntu Touch should possiby acsaully suppor Android apps
<Dreamsy> kdenlive on an m10 xD
<SebthreeBQM10HD> we got thousands of good programs made for the standard Desktop Linux :d  what about 20 years or so worth now even ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Dreamsy, you could try a unoffical hack type thing, and see what other programs you can run on there already,  but Canonical only have the default programs as programs they would say are supported and meant to work defeintly on the tablet at this time
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so FIrefox, Gedi, Gimp,  Xchat
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Libre Office
<Dreamsy> Ran it on my samsung arm chromebook, edited the timeline then rendered on my desktop ><
<Dreamsy> either way :P thanks for the answer
<penguin42> hmm, news.bbc seems to have very bad text layout - on my f24 box the decnders from the top line are lost; on my ubuntu box they're partially lost
<MooDoo> hello all, please correct me if I'm wrong, but popey are you the voice of mycroft?
<popey> bleep bloop affirmative
<MooDoo> hehe :)
<MooDoo> read about it on the kickstarter update :)
<knightwise> popey: why not build a cat "bedtimestory" | microft > bedtime.wav  that way you can automatically read your kids a bedtimestory
<SuperEngineer> Just had a quick snooze - woke up because of a nightmare. I was driving and popey was the voice on the satnav. :-0
<SuperEngineer> "turn left & listen to the Ubuntu podcast"
<SuperEngineer> "turn left & listen to the Ubuntu podcast now"
<SuperEngineer> "please turn around and listen to the
<SuperEngineer> ubuntu podecast"
<SuperEngineer> :-(
<ali1234> lol
<daftykins> crikey!
<daftykins> did the car then need a kernel update? ;D
<Myrtti> wow. great little purchase I did with that Peter Rabbit coin http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222184122901
<Myrtti> I hope the receiver will value it appropriately
<daftykins> :O
<penguin42> heck nice
<Myrtti> was worth queuing and suffering the mints website
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: the car needed a reinstall!
<daftykins> XD
<m0nkey_> Evening all
<SuperEngineer> just checked the user list, m0nkey_ ,. unfortunately all" is not on this channel ;-)
<m0nkey_> ?
<SuperEngineer> ??
<m0nkey_> oh
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<SuperEngineer> welcome
<m0nkey_> I'm not with it this morning
<m0nkey_> Anyone ever used luks? I'm trying it out for my backups to be stored off site. Should I be aware of any dangers that might cause it to fail?
<m0nkey_> probably known as dm-crypt
<penguin42> m0nkey_: I use luks, but I don't back it up like that; if you're backing the entire partition up I think you should be OK; you can also make a backup of the keys sepratately if I understand correctly
<m0nkey_> I've got it set-up so it can be unlocked using a passphrase or keyfile
<m0nkey_> well, at least i think i have :)
<m0nkey_> anywho.. keyfile is backed up
<m0nkey_> just want to secure the data in case of the disk going missing at it's off-site location
<SuperEngineer> always better to buy an external disk, back up to that.  Trust the cloud???  no thanks
<m0nkey_> the off-site location is a physical location on a physical disk
<SuperEngineer> trust a remote site for backups, ditto
<m0nkey_> i.e. i transport the drive myself :)
<SuperEngineer> m0nkey_: cool
<SuperEngineer> best way
<SuperEngineer> [and it proves you *are* with it, afterall]
<penguin42> I can see some arguments for cloud backups - you can back it up to locations that are physically far from you, and do it often and back it up to multiple locations
<SuperEngineer>  I can see some arguments against cloud backups - you can back it up to locations that are physically hackable, and have it done often from multip[le locations ;-)
<penguin42> well yeh, but if you encrypt it with your own keys then that's not too bad
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: you're determined to win this, aren't you?!  :-D
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: No; I keep my backups on a USB stick....
<SuperEngineer> [as in, no keys have ever been cracked. nope, none of them, never] ;-)
<m0nkey_> stop willy waving, you're going to get diddledan excited.
<SuperEngineer> "No; I keep my backups on a USB stick...." I knew were wise  penguin42
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Oh I agree about the keys; there was a nice slide in one of Snowden's sets about examples of what they were looking for
<SuperEngineer> m0nkey_: lol
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: and a slide on Debian's random number generator screwup
<SuperEngineer> yikes!
<SuperEngineer> why not tell the public - as if "they" didn't know
<SuperEngineer> personally, I have a large home build pc - and large trousers - and a teser.  I stick my large oc in my large trouser pocket and taze anybody who comes near me... the police do object though!
<SuperEngineer> *taser
<penguin42>  'oc' ?
<SuperEngineer> *pc
<SuperEngineer> [/me slaps wrist for poor keyboarding]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Ah, you're not just happy to see me; it's your CDROM drive ejecting
<SuperEngineer> rofl
<zmoylan-pi> decisions decisions, my cousin vinny or naked gun...
<daftykins> or, naked cousin vinny with a gun
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-17
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<Welshman> Hi. Everyone in this room. Have a question to ask, which I have already asked in the #google room through this chat program (XChat-GNOME). Hope that is ok? : )
<Welshman> Hello?
<penguin42> ask the question!
<Welshman> penguin42: Thanks for your reply - glad someone has replied at last. Was also making sure that it is OK before asking! : )
<Welshman> Which free app from the Google Play Store, especially security, does not interfere or change settings on a phone like close other apps and draw over other apps?
<Welshman> Hope I get some sort of answer/reply very soon! Thanks. : )
<penguin42> I don't understand your question - no app should interfere with other apps or draw over them
<Myrtti> some do
<Myrtti> very rare, but some do
<m0nkey_> Talking censorship?
<penguin42> yes but what is Welshman actually asking for?
<Welshman> I own 2 Samsung Galaxy mobile phone and I have only recently found out that 3 free antivirus apps close other apps and draw over other apps after reading the Other description for each of those apps on the Google Play Store website. So....
<Welshman> Hope I get some sort of answer/reply very soon! Thanks. : )
<Welshman> Well?
<Myrtti> well, keeping in mind that this is a Ubuntu channel, and a small one to boot, and it's Sunday, answers might not be quickly forthcoming
<Myrtti> but continuing on your question
<Myrtti> why would you have an antivirus on your phone? I know some people manage to infect their phones with all kinds of crap but if you've got some sense in what links to click, and not enable silly apps to sideinstall, the point of an antivirus is a bit lsot
<Myrtti> lost, even
<diddledan> funny pokÃ©mon mock-up is funny - the story is interesting too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDZjm4f9CEo
<Welshman> Myrtti: Have just sent the following message to penguin42 after he asked "yes but what is Welshman actually asking for?": "I own 2 Samsung Galaxy mobile phone and I have only recently found out that 3 free antivirus apps close other apps and draw over other apps after reading the Other description for each of those apps on the Google Play Store website.". Hope he answers/replies soon! Thanks. : )
<penguin42> Welshman: You might want to get used to the basics of irc first
<penguin42> Welshman: 1) Dont repeat questions constantly  2) Dont private message people without asking 3) Use the right channels  4) Realise that if you don't get a reply there might not be people who know the answer  5) Really check if your question is clear
<diddledan> 6) â¦ 7) profit
<diddledan> also be aware there are moron diddlers about
<Welshman> Myrtti + penguin42: Away for a few minutes playing a game whilst I await a response to my question. Thanks. : )
<Welshman> Well?
<Myrtti> see penguin42's point 4)
<Welshman> Myrtti: That means I will have to repeat my question etc again just incase someone else enters this channel/room and knows that answer or knows about Android apps! So, will return again in the next few minutes to repost my question etc. Thanks. : )
<Myrtti> eh.
<Welshman> Myrtti: Have returned for a few minutes to repost my question etc. So here goes! : )
<Myrtti> please don't
<Welshman> Hi. Everyone in this room. Have a question to ask, which I have already asked in the #google room through this chat program (XChat-GNOME). Hope that is ok? : )
<Myrtti> the population of the channel hasn't changed almost at all
<Welshman> Which free app, especially security, does not interfere or change settings on a phone like close other apps and draw over other apps?
<Myrtti> the people that would answer the question still are doing something else, or don't know the reply
<Welshman> To explain why I have asked that question. I own 2 Samsung Galaxy mobile phone and I have only recently found out that 3 free antivirus apps close other apps and draw over other apps after reading the Other description for each of those apps on the Google Play Store website. : )
<ali1234> Welshman: every single antivirus app for android is a scam
<ali1234> at best they do nothing, at worst they are literally viruses pretending to not be viruses
<ali1234> the best way to avoid viruses on android is to check the permissions which the app requests and don't install anything that requests significantly more than it would appear to need
<ali1234> and especailly don't click on anything that claims to be anti-virus, or claims to have detected viruses on your phone
<Welshman> ali1234: What? Even the antivirus scanner contained within the 360 Security app?
<ali1234> is a joke, yes
<ali1234> nothing but a scam, like all norton software made in the past 15 years
<Welshman> ali1234: Yes, I am well aware of "don't click on anything that claims to be anti-virus, or claims to have detected viruses on your phone". Don't have to be told!
<Welshman> ali1234: Evidence: link for blog or post or website name, please!
<ali1234> http://www.cnet.com/news/googler-android-antivirus-software-is-scareware-from-charlatans/
<ali1234> essentially the bottom line is that android has built-in sandboxing which functions in much the same way as desktop antivirus
<ali1234> if malware can get past that it will have no trouble getting past a third party app
<Welshman> ali1234: Thank you for link - have copied. Also, will visit that/the website soon to check the date of blog or post. If early 2015 or earlier will return as it should be up to date! Thanks. : )
<Welshman> ali1234: Just visited the website using the link that you have provided. I have found out that the blog/post was 'written' on November 18, 2011! That's 5 years ago. So, I don't think it/that stands. Sorry. But thanks again! : )
<diddledan> yeah because they made it less secure OOTB to help scammers
<Welshman> diddledan: Thanks for reply. Also, excuse me for my ignorance, but: What does OOTB mean or stand for? Thanks. : )
 * m0nkey_ tickles diddledan 
 * diddledan giglges
<daftykins> Welshman: out of the box
<daftykins> i.e. default setups
<Welshman> daftykins: Thanks for reply. : )
<daftykins> Welshman: bit horrified by the way you perceive information to be legitimate or not
<ali1234> seems reasonable to me
<ali1234> i mean, asking for a recent source does not seem unreasonable
<diddledan> the EU probably legislates over the legitimacy of aged documents :-p
<diddledan> ali1234: I think the issue is dismissing JUST based on the age, rather than verifying whether it has been superseded assuming that it must have been.
<diddledan> hereâs the kicker: it might be accurate! perish the thought
<daftykins> ^ dan knows it
<daftykins> "sorry your claim is old, i shall ignore it entirely"
 * diddledan diddles in public
<daftykins> ooh you fiend
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> itâs terrible to mention me without diddling :-p
 * diddledan diddles all over the room
<daftykins> i had some woes with my lovely new machine again last night :( two total lock ups just on a skype video call, here on IRC via KiTTY (the PuTTY fork) and watching a horrible quality XviD Whoopi Goldberg film
<diddledan> sounds like the dentist is next-door
<daftykins> i'm blaming Whoopi for this one
<daftykins> sorry sir :P i shall avoid skipping the diddling in future!
<penguin42> daftykins: Question is how hard did it lock; did it ping? capslock? mouse pointer? ctrl-alt-f2 ?Anything in the logs?
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> penguin42: I think he runs âdows
<penguin42> diddledan: Oh well, we can fix that I think
<diddledan> Iâm not sure alt+ctrl+f2 does anything over in redmond
<daftykins> fixed image display, fixed tone across the speakers...
<daftykins> total goner
 * penguin42 hands daftykins a FreeDOS floppy
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> >.<
<daftykins> i memtest'd earlier but it's all good
<diddledan> does that come with a web browser yet?
 * diddledan downloads and runs in VB
<penguin42> diddledan: Apparently there is one called arachne
<diddledan> how big should I make itâs hard thingy?
 * penguin42 isn't sure I should answer that in polite company
<diddledan> and RAM? 8GB?
<diddledan> VB suggests 32MB
<diddledan> surely itâs lying
<penguin42> for FreeDOS - not unreasonable for hard disk
<diddledan> nono, not disk, ram
<diddledan> disk itâs defaulting to 500MB
<penguin42> 32MB would seem excessive for DOS but I'm suspecting it might be able to do it
<m0nkey_> I need a new hard drive dock.. anyone recommend a good one? USB3 preferred.
<daftykins> look for something with UASP support as a minimum
<m0nkey_> UASP?
<daftykins> USB attached SCSI protocl
<ali1234> more commonly known as UAS
<daftykins> ugh my keyboard is dropping o's again today
<m0nkey_> Something like this? http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAAMW42C2136&cm_re=hard_drive_docking_station-_-9SIAAMW42C2136-_-Product
<daftykins> not based on every enclosure i've seen (:
<penguin42> daftykins: o-dear
<daftykins> nah it's an old mechanical that's been giving up for a few months
<daftykins> if not years
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh I've got a few model m's that each have their own quirks
<Welshman> ali1234, daftykins, diddledan + penguin42: Thanks. Also, I will now leave as it seems that I will need to do 2 things: 1. Ask my question and provide the info elsewhere; 2. Before installing any security app for my 2 'phones I will have to visit the Google Play Store to look at the Other section to make sure that it does not close other apps and draw over other apps amongst 'other things' (was hoping that someone would answered my original quest
<Welshman> ion). But I might return here in the future to ask another question. So, thanks to you all and all the best for the rest of 2016 + the future!! : )
<daftykins> i'd rather you found appropriate places in future
<ali1234> Welshman: ask yourself how anti-virus software is supposed to stop viruses without closing them?
<daftykins> m0nkey_: looks a bit cheap
<ali1234> like wise it needs to draw over them to show a warning
<Myrtti> I wonder at what point the kitchen has cooled enough that we can go get the laundry through it from the garden
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> hot kitchen?
<Myrtti> dinner plans of making chili con carne got swapped to just eat pizza
<Myrtti> yeah, we've got a west facing conservatory with no door in between
<diddledan> aah
<m0nkey_> Tell D to install a door :)
<daftykins> my bedroom up in the uninsulated roof was 30 deg C again just before :(
<Myrtti> I think I'll make the chili tomorrow morning before it gets too hot
<Myrtti> m0nkey_: why bother, just get the house to market during fall and move out :-P
<m0nkey_> that works too :)
<Welshman> ali1234: ? Before I go please explain what you meant by the following: "how anti-virus software is supposed to stop viruses without closing them?"! Look forward to your explanatory answer/reply. Thanks! : )
<Myrtti> it was a question to you
<m0nkey_> There's this thing called Google. You might have heard of it. :)
<ali1234> Welshman: android software runs in a sandbox. the antivirus software can't interfere with any other processes unless you give it the necessary permissions
<ali1234> that means it can't block viruses unless you give it permission to stop other apps
<ali1234> and it can't warn you that an app is a virus unless you allow it to draw over other apps to display that warning
<Welshman> ali1234: OK. But after reading "close other apps and draw over other apps" and 'other things' listed in the Other section of the 3 free antivirus apps for Android I became concerned. I only found out about it today! Also, even though I will do as I said previously I do have 1 final question. My question is: Is the same for Apple/the iPhone? Look forward to your answer/reply! : )
<ali1234> i have no idea about apple but probably
<ali1234> the bottom line is anti-virus can't operate without superuser access
<ali1234> and neither can malware
<daftykins> Welshman: i would say that running any kind of AV on a phone is utterly stupid and a waste of money + time
<daftykins> regardless of OS.
<MartijnVdS> and battery
<Welshman> daftykins: Am certain that you have once read a report sometime of a virus or of viruses 'attacking' the Android OS! : )
<daftykins> Welshman: this is not the 90s, there aren't viruses anymore
 * diddledan sneazes
<diddledan> damn you daftykins , you told me I wouldnât get any more viruses!
<daftykins> Welshman: and no, all you can do is use an up to date device and be sensible about not installing apps from unrecognised sources
<daftykins> that's how all the bad things tend to get android users, is they do idiotic things - just like computer users ;)
<diddledan> or silly apps like âFREE FART MASHINE"
 * daftykins spots it on diddledan's home screen
<diddledan> well I needed to provide some plausible deniability to my bottom
<diddledan> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ZD4A96Ay/
 * diddledan whistles
<Welshman> daftykins: Have just found 2 separate articles about/on a virus that can attack the Android OS dated earlier this year (DuckDuckGo and Google)! : )
<daftykins> they are not virii
<daftykins> Welshman: please stop acting like finding an article of a topic you don't understand disproves someone else
<diddledan> omg the DDG Virus!
<diddledan> related to the DDT pesticide
<Welshman> daftykins: Here are the links to prove that I am saying the truth: www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3450938/Beware-Android-virus-WIPE-phone-Experts-warn-users-Mazar-malware-spread-text-message.html  and  www.idigitaltimes.com/hummingbad-malware-targets-android-app-downloads-how-detect-and-remove-root-access-544389
<diddledan> omg, the daily fail
<penguin42> ah dailymail proof
<daftykins> Welshman: i think you need to understand the difference between trusted and reliable sources.
 * diddledan checks el reg
<daftykins> Welshman: i can find claims that God is a flying spaghetti monster online, does it mean i believe them? no.
<penguin42> diddledan: It's sad when el reg is classified as a trusted source
<diddledan> penguin42: itâs funny though
<diddledan> penguin42: I like their laisez faire attitude
<diddledan> daftykins: âclaimsâ? you seem to be dismissing that the holy pastafar touched moses with his noodley appendage on top of a mountain!
<daftykins> me too :D the site vocabulary is great
<Welshman> daftykins: The Daily Mail is well known trusted UK paper. Also, if the idigitaltimes.com is not a reliable and trusted site then I will try to find 1 that is!
<diddledan> bo yackor shar! in yo face, daftykins !
<daftykins> Welshman: i'm trying to tell you that AV is rubbish, i have no reason to lie or any way to gain from this - either take it for what it is or go and enjoy your own thoughts, but i do not care to hear of them. got it?
<daftykins> diddledan: that it did, it's also a crime that folks aren't allowed to represent their beliefs in their driving licenses!
<diddledan> inorite
<daftykins> !fud | Welshman
<lubotu3> Welshman: Please do not fall prey to, or spread FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) - it is not welcome here!  Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
<diddledan> !moo
<diddledan> damn you lubotu3
<daftykins> probably got deleted ;)
<diddledan> apt-get moo
<daftykins> !info mo
<lubotu3> Package mo does not exist in xenial
<daftykins> ugh keybard
<daftykins> !info moo
<lubotu3> Package moo does not exist in xenial
<daftykins> aww
<diddledan> !learn moo?
<diddledan> sheâs not playing ball :-(
<daftykins> did we forget to give scooby bot snacks?
<daftykins> "Since most HummingBad attacks have occurred in China and India, it is believed most smartphones acquired the malware because users downloaded apps from unofficial app stores with lax security protocols."
<daftykins> what i stated already.
<daftykins> rubbish scaremongering links
<diddledan> did you see that youâre not able to watch pornography at mcdonalds anymore?!
<Welshman> ali1234, daftykins, diddledan + penguin42: Am now, finally, leaving this channel/room. But I might return in the future. So, thank you all and all the best for the rest of 2016 and the future! : )
<daftykins> no wai
<daftykins> what did they go and do?
<diddledan> donât tell us youâre going, just go
<ali1234> sorry guys i mentioned the free market
<diddledan> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/16/starbucks_bans_smut/
<diddledan> maccy-d and startbucks
<diddledan> Iâm going to boycott mcdonalds now!
<daftykins> you can imagine something like that starts from a single bad experience by someone uptight enough to complain about it
<diddledan> daftykins: it was just one time
<diddledan> at band camp
<daftykins> i just saw the pic they chose for the ubuntu forums story - https://regmedia.co.uk/2016/01/18/happy_penguin_image_via_shutterstock.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> i was pondering today as i walked from dublin home if douglas adams description of the shoe even horizon should actually be the starbucks event horizon
<ali1234> if he was writing today it probably would be
<ali1234> or pound shops
<ali1234> maybe not pound shops. you could probably have a functioning society with only pound shops
<ali1234> admittedly not a great one
<zmoylan-pi> i was in a eurostore today looking for a power pack... â¬20 for a 7500mah decent little battery for charging devices...
<ali1234> for 1 euro?
<diddledan> thatâs more than a euro
<ali1234> wait, what?
<ali1234> i'm confused
 * penguin42 is glad it's not just me
<zmoylan-pi> they sell big stuff in euro stores in ireland... not in uk?
<ali1234> ah yeah, sometimes they do have a couple expensive items by the tills
<ali1234> "expensive"
<ali1234> as in not Â£1
<zmoylan-pi> they even had an android smart watch for â¬20
<diddledan> still cheap tat
<ali1234> i bought a smartwatch for Â£5
<zmoylan-pi> i don't want to even imagine how bad a â¬20 smart watch is
<diddledan> for small values of âsmart"
<ali1234> not android though. i bet those ones aren't either... they're just android "compatible"
<ali1234> they make sure to write that all over the marketing material
<zmoylan-pi> this had notifications, music player controls and a few other things mentioned on the box
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but it doesn't actually run android
<zmoylan-pi> i think the outside of the box was the extent of the instructions mind... :-P
<ali1234> i bet it was something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Support-Notification-Pedometer-Compatible/dp/B00YUDQWDW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1468783110&sr=8-3&keywords=bluetooth+smartwatch
<ali1234> that actually has a phone built in by the way, so it can operate standalone
<zmoylan-pi> and i have been tempted by the dumbphones they sometimes have their for similar dosh
<ali1234> but it is only 2G so it is largely useless
<zmoylan-pi> i should take a pic next time...
<zmoylan-pi> 2g is still around, though they are trying to remove the masts here in ireland to push people to 4g
<ali1234> that thing actually runs the same OS as the recent nokia dumbphones
<ali1234> it can even run some of the same apps
<zmoylan-pi> oooh s40. a decent little os
<ali1234> not S40
<zmoylan-pi> ah
<ali1234> nothing to do with symbian at all
<zmoylan-pi> symbian is s60. s40 is java based dumbphones
<ali1234> oh yeah... well, it's not that either
<ali1234> ah... S30 they call it i think
<ali1234> no wait... S30+
<diddledan> I thought it was still symbian just not the latest s60
<zmoylan-pi> one thing ms did was kill symbian deader than windows mobile...
<diddledan> itâs amaziing how far android has changed since the htc magic
<diddledan> (I had one of those!)
<diddledan> ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Magic
<zmoylan-pi> my first was htc hero with the chin.  it was shipped with donut when i got it
<diddledan> amazing to think that was only 7 years ago
<zmoylan-pi> of all the smart phones that i had i think the nokia e61i was the best.  decent keyboard, screen, battery life, apps
<zmoylan-pi> all downhill from that
<diddledan> they werenât even fully-invested with touch back then, having that lil ball to navigate if you wanted
<diddledan> doubling as a flashy thing
<diddledan> 288 MB RAM On the hero
<diddledan> 512MB internal storage
<daftykins> oof
<diddledan> (of which only 165 was available for apps)
<zmoylan-pi> the most impressive app on the hero was google skies.  it impressed more nerds than any other app/feature
<daftykins> i've the far newer HTC Desire no the shelf, it too suffers from storage space making it useless
<diddledan> I think I had the gnex after the magic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_Nexus
<diddledan> with a stop-over in iphone 3gs
<zmoylan-pi> i still have my iphone 3g on prepay here
<diddledan> Iâve been sending them to a cash for phones reclaimation service
<diddledan> mazuma methinks
<diddledan> obviously thatâs once Iâd upgraded
<diddledan> ooh, zootropolis might land for purchase tomorrow
<diddledan> movie*
<diddledan> that looks fun
<diddledan> kids movies tend to be hilarious
<diddledan> with lots of adult âwink winkâ jokes that go over the kidsâ heads
<diddledan> ooh ooh, dark matter ep3 tomorrow, too (Iâve purchased the season-pass on iTunes!)
<diddledan> curley braces are the manner of heaven
<diddledan> mannar?
<diddledan> how do you spell that?
<diddledan> either way, C-style language construction is much nicer to my eye than things like ruby or python
<daftykins> manner indeed
<diddledan> and we wonât mention scheme
<daftykins> unless it's Wile E Coyote's ?
<zmoylan-pi> manna?
<diddledan> how are you supposed to grok this ruby code? (prepare for paste link)
<diddledan> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/rdJLSBzv/
<daftykins> i just got irritated with my mechanical keyboard to the point of doing something, so i've unplugged it and thrown it on a chair, now i've got a membrane based Dell cheapy i have spare in my spares box, it feels far inferior :(
<diddledan> I still like my macbook proâs keyboard and my old aluminium wired mac keyboard
<zmoylan-pi> i just hooked an ancient packard bell keyboard that was shipped with a winme pc many moons ago up to my new tablet which support otg connections... :-)
<diddledan> although the keys are in the wrong places :-p
<zmoylan-pi> argos were giving them away for â¬99 8" lenovo tablet...
<diddledan> âIâm hitting all the right keys! not necessarily in the right order, Iâll grant you that, but at least theyâre all the right keys."
<daftykins> "...alluded the monkeys in the typerwriter room." :D
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GeKLE0x3s
 * zmoylan-pi wonders when they talk about infinite monkeys and infinite typewriters do they budget for the infinite staff who have to clean the poop out of the typewriters...
<diddledan> aww, that video is blocked in the UK
<diddledan> because it contains content from BBC Worldwide
<zmoylan-pi> works in ireland :-)
<diddledan> I donât get that at all. itâs BBC who own the rights and I pay their bills! why canât I see it?!
<zmoylan-pi> because it means you're a commie downloader...
<diddledan> I would understand it being blocked everywhere EXCEPT the UK but blocked in the UK only seems a bit backasswards
<daftykins> never got on with apple peripherals myself... not much of apple anything actually ;)
<zmoylan-pi> you're supposed to use iplayer
 * diddledan hides his OS X user-agent string
<daftykins> shopping for new keyboards but everyone's started ditching the right hand context menu key down by super and alt gr - and turned it into a silly "Fn" that does daft media things
<diddledan> I donât get those fn keys at all
<diddledan> s/get/understand/
<zmoylan-pi> they have to squeeze in those extra media keys no one wants so normal bogstand keys have to go...
<daftykins> https://dixunusmoumzz.cloudfront.net/filer_public/f3/01/f3017669-5604-4fcd-943b-a6263d942658/apexm500_keyboard_design_merged_02.png
<daftykins> and then often you get close to the norm, but they'll only show you the nasty US layout ;)
<zmoylan-pi> this is a keyboard i intend to get at some point gods of internet commerce permitting... http://cherryamericas.com/product/g84-4100-miniature-keyboard-2/
<diddledan> daftykins: even worse is shipping you the US layout
<zmoylan-pi> the fun i had getting the Â£ symbol in the 80s and 90s...
<diddledan> Ireland doesnât believe in the Â£ symbol though!
<diddledan> unless you used it for the Irish pound?
<zmoylan-pi> loading network drivers, memory drivers and then an accounts system that wanted a lot of conventional memory meant there wasn't always space for the keyboard drivers
<daftykins> drivers... for keyboards!?
<zmoylan-pi> we used it till the euro came along, it's still on irish keyboards but we use the â¬ more now
<daftykins> that's the other thing actually, a lot of just keyboards and mice want software now, ridiculous
<zmoylan-pi> keyb uk in dos
<diddledan> I love that old programs required memory below 640KB to work
<diddledan> free memory*
<diddledan> or: s/(memory)/free \1/ :-p
<zmoylan-pi> you could get weird dos versions to give you 700k+ low memory... could make computer act weird though
 * diddledan likes confusing people with regexes
<diddledan> wait, wha?
<diddledan> you need the Â£ symbol for when youâre talking with the mainland
 * diddledan ducks
<diddledan> damned colonies
 * diddledan ducks again
<zmoylan-pi> we do a lot of dealings with nigeria and they use the Â£.  they drink more guinness there now and it's stronger stuff too
<diddledan> so if youâre knocking-off the guinness factory you make sure you get the nigerian shipment container?
<zmoylan-pi> guinness takes security _very_ seriously
<diddledan> well yeah. otherwise theyâd be unable to sell anything because itâs all been drunken
<diddledan> damned staff
<diddledan> drunk-in-charge of a brewery should be an offence
<daftykins> my mate was in Dublin this weekend sampling some, i've asked him to have one once he gets home and to compare
<daftykins> diddledan: and a bucket list entry
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> it should be identical.  they send vans around to ensure that guinness everywhere is 'proper'
<zmoylan-pi> of course outside ireland you find a lot of places can't even pour a pint right
<diddledan> like the BBC detector-vans?
<daftykins> yeah but this is Guernsey, the oft forgot
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> all that TV license checking they don't do
<daftykins> just FUD
<zmoylan-pi> if guinness is on tap, then there's a van there sometimes to check the pipes
<zmoylan-pi> you see them all over dublin and rest of the country
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> maybe i'll make it over again someday
<zmoylan-pi> guinness saved irelands economy in wwii... http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/How-Guinness-saved-Ireland-in-World-War-II.html
<diddledan> did you sell it to the Germans?
<daftykins> :O
<zmoylan-pi> if they wanted to pop over and pick it up yes...
<zmoylan-pi> i do remember reading of a german interned after he ended up in ireland escaping from the camp leaving a note to the effect. 'have escaped for the weekend, going to dublin for dinner and a show, back tuesday'
<diddledan> USB has had a version bump to enable super-fast charging? https://twitter.com/MikeStucka/status/754796456180088841
<diddledan> how floppy drives worked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHRc-QMoUE4
<zmoylan-pi> 8" disks.  just going out of fashion when i started...
<zmoylan-pi> the physical size of those floppy drives...
<zmoylan-pi> commodore pets... i learned to type on those...
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/Nivo0o0/status/754811021986897921
 * zmoylan-pi wonderws if i can start sending replies in ogham to next emojii message i get...
<diddledan> no
<zmoylan-pi> challenge accepted... :-D
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-10
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<daftykins> morn \o
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> a gloomy damp day... perfect for monday in ireland...
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/kDwM0LN.gif
<zmoylan-pi> gods a smiter...
<zmoylan-pi> some mondays it's just not worthwhile to chew through the restraints...
<daftykins> indeedy!
<diplo> Any of you guys use ansible ?
<diplo> If so can I use when: followed by another when: ?
<daftykins> #ansible might be worth a go
<diplo> yeah find those guys a bit much :D - on their website now, it was a quick one, I've just commented out for now and will test on a dev machine later
<diplo> We have some weird setups
<diddledan> diplo: is it yaml? they might take an array
<diplo> yeah it is, I've not looked at it properly yet. I've bodged for now and will set up an lxc to test in abit.
<BigRedS1> Ah, I've been trying to get ansible to work with our ways of doing things (which seems the harder and less-common use of ansible)
<BigRedS1> got an example of what you're trying to do?
<diplo> Sorry on other screen, oh this is a simple one really just not had time to look at it
<diplo> On different Centos minimal isos it comes with firewalld and others don't.
<diplo> I already do check to see if it's cent and whether it's 6 or 7 because I use the same to deploy to both
<diplo> But I want to check whether firewalld is installed before disabling it
<diddledan> lol, while amazon do "prime day" I just received an email from ebuyer about their own version "optimus day"
<diddledan> "no membership required"
<TheProphet[S]> Hi all, is there a way to clone my Ubuntu partition to an SD card and make that bootable and run it from there? I am using clonezilla, but I have only been able to create an image of my partition so far and I believe that is not bootable
<m0nkey_> Wouldn't dd work?
<daftykins> and then they were gone
<daftykins> sounds like the SD will be a lot smaller m0nkey_ - so doubt it
<diddledan> daftykins: my card is teeny
<diddledan> it's almost as small as my floppy ;-)
<daftykins> diddledan: https://cdn.meme.am/cache/images/folder433/600x600/14002433/cant-argue-with-that-technically-not-wrong.jpg
<daftykins> i would like you to know that took several searches with constantly refined syntax
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> and even then i learnt it has another meaning to what i thought ;_;
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-11
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<flexiondotorg> diddledan Ping
<diplo> I didn't know you frequented this channel Mr Wimpress ( flexiondotorg )
<diplo> Although i have joins and parts etc disabled so I'd probably never know unless you typed :)
<flexiondotorg> diplo o/
<diddledan> hi flexiondotorg
<diddledan> it's all wet outside
<diddledan> much cooler temperatures tho *wipes brow*
<zmoylan-pi> i was down to my last cornetto, phew
<diddledan> I got a load of those too
<flexiondotorg> diddledan We'd like to invite you to become a Snapcrafter.
<diddledan> \o/
<flexiondotorg> I see you've found the new Snapcrafter template and used it for the gimp snap you're working on.
<diddledan> yup :-) I'm just trying to get an edge release built now
<flexiondotorg> Can I request you add (and update) the Snapcraft README.md to you're existing snap repos in github.
<flexiondotorg> We can then proceed with forking those to the Snapcrafter GitHub, adding you as a member and hooking up automatic builds.
<diddledan> roger that. I'll pop it onto corebird asap
<flexiondotorg> diddledan Perfect.
<flexiondotorg> Ping me in the Snapcraft forum when you're ready to migrate your repos to the Snapcrafters GitHub and we'll handle the migration via the forums.
<diddledan> right-oh
<diddledan> I've also been looking at makemkv (the dvd/blurry ripper) but am unsure as to the legal ramifications of snapping it
<diddledan> the license from makemkv themselves allows repackaging, but there is the grey area of drm circumvention
<diddledan> CFT is out now on the GIMP package
<diddledan> https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-gimp/1281
<popey> \o/
<diddledan> ello popey popester
<diddledan> I still need to look into the process to get people canonised so we can petition for popey to be the next pontif
<diddledan> I've been amazon prime daying
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> so many stuff
<diddledan> much things
<diddledan> wow
<zmoylan-pi> i thought the amazon prime thing was a bit scammy with most of the deals not so great?
<Dave> the only time I've got something from one is when they did a cheap Kindle
<diddledan> they're doing echo units with Â£70 off if you're into those
<zmoylan-pi> see an echo unit stopped a domestic incident in usa when the abuser asked the victim dir you call the sheriffs? so it did...
<popey> I have been resisting primeday
<diddledan> I don't get that unless he yelled the startword
<popey> although I'd probably buy two more echos if pushed
<diddledan> YOU FSCKING WOMAN. OK GOOGLE, DID YOU PHONE THE SHERIFS?
<zmoylan-pi> http://mashable.com/2017/07/10/amazon-echo-calls-sheriff/
<diddledan> it only makes sense if she was called alexa
<diddledan> the whole point of prompt keywords is that it prevents exactly that kind of scenario, so the story is wrong
<zmoylan-pi> yet the sheriffs were called... the mystery deepens...
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like one of these 3 day stories were lots of misinformation gets out until the true story leaks out when everyone has lost interest...
<diddledan> "echo unit that phoned the police actually woman with mobile phone"
<diddledan> in fact, I don't believe the echo service has telephone calling capability
<zmoylan-pi> it can't make 911 calls. it can call contacts but you have to use exact phrase... i suspect that will turn out to be it
<zmoylan-pi> 'alexa call sheriffs' sorta thing
<zmoylan-pi> either way, the plod turned up where they were needed...
<zmoylan-pi> i still don't want one in my gaff
<popey> if you say "alexa, call the police" she says "I'm not quite sure how to help you with that"
<diddledan> I don't even want to try it
<zmoylan-pi> but you can add a contact police and include a number but they seem to have a block on 911 calls in usa as against t&c of unit
<popey> you cant call anyone
<diddledan> it's like americans getting new iphones for xmas the first thing they do is dial 911 because their sim isn't activated yet
<popey> it has no concept of calling
<zmoylan-pi> probably to avoid the false alarms calls and be a repeat of all the cheap home alarms in the 80s that brought in legislation to prevent false alarms calling the police
<popey> it's just not designed to be used like that
<popey> it's not a phone :)
<zmoylan-pi> yet...
<zmoylan-pi> they seem keen to push a new intercom /feature/
<MooDoo> howdy all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> m00
<MooDoo> well looks like silverstone has activated a break clause to not host any grand prix's after 2019  wow :(
<diddledan> yeah, I saw that
<zmoylan-pi> silverstone with no f1... does not compute...
<diddledan> I wonder if they'll be able to negotiate a better deal or if it goes elsewhere or britain loses the slot altogether
<zmoylan-pi> host drone races there, less wear and tear on the track :-D
<popey> hah
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR4Gq9qfpnM
<MooDoo> nice
<zmoylan-pi> maybe add virtual or nerf weapons to add more variety... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> be fun to watch fliers trying to fly past a nerf armed crowd.  direct route = more chance of nerf hit v safe but slower route...
<foobarry> need some awk help. anyone about?
<foobarry> doesn't matter
<diddledan> mmm, coffeee
<diddledan> coffee coffee coffee
 * diddledan goes on a caffeine trip
 * zmoylan-pi puts on zither music for the trip
<diddledan> so. ubuntu gnome. the file manager can't access my freenas
<zmoylan-pi> groove factor five man
 * diddledan grooves
<diddledan> groove factor to the max?
<zmoylan-pi> groovy man
<diddledan> gravy
<zmoylan-pi> and biscuits
<diddledan> slam dunk
<diddledan> I need to figure out what to do with 30 spare network ports on my switch
<diddledan> it's a noisy buffer tho
<zmoylan-pi> rent them out to the nsa, gchq, fsb for any equipment they want to have lying around. make money at h$me n$w :-)
<diddledan> guess I need to open it up to see if the fans can be quiesced any
<diddledan> still, it's better than running three separate 8-port switches - was running out of power holes
<zmoylan-pi> now you just need to find a few devices that run on power over ethernet...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: national horrorday tomorrow?
<diddledan> oh, n. ireland
<diddledan> does the battle of the boyne get celebrated south of the bordeR?
<zmoylan-pi> not that anyone would notice
<zmoylan-pi> the orange men did try and march in dublin a few years back but eejits had a riot to stop them
<diddledan> gotta love a good riot for preventing freedom of expression
<zmoylan-pi> this was deffo a good riot
<diddledan> none of the namby pamby nonsense I hope
<diddledan> a proper full on looting and fires and overturned cars
<zmoylan-pi> over turned cars, fires, using paving slabs thrown as frisbies to slow riot police... no looting, profiting from a riot would sully their motives...
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/l63RSzqpwHQ?t=31
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Dublin_riots#The_riot
<diddledan> sinn fein AND republican sinn fein. that aren't the same. like the IRA and the _REAL_ IRA. oh and the Provisional IRA. it's as bad as all those populist judean fronts
<diddledan> ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrDVsprWRCQ
<zmoylan-pi> as was said many many years ago in ireland by a wise man, the first thing on the agenda of any new irish group is the split :-)
<zmoylan-pi> the ira without going into pira, cira is about a dozen seperate groups at different times by different people leaning left, right, centre politically
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-12
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Anyone good with systemd ? I basically have one initd script currently that starts a few of our processes, googling to try and find the best way to do that in systemd but seem to be failing. Each service script has one program to start
<diplo> If anyone can point me in the right direction, I basically want to do systemctl software start
<diddledan> diplo: initd scripts are still supported by systemd
<diddledan> if you really want to rebuild them as pukka services you'll need to write a file in /etc/systemd/system/<servicename>.service then systemctl enable <servicename> and finally systemctl start <servicename>
<diplo> inside of that it starts 5 of our programs
<diplo> I read somewhere I could get one systemd script to trigger multiple others though
<diplo> And I can't find how
<diplo> :P
<diplo> But yeah, I know they are stull supported currently but they are being discontinued at some point
<diplo> I may just get the services to shutdown cleanly and then the customers can just run shutdown and the OS can shutdown them properly rather than the customer
<diddledan> the spec for .service files is at https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.service.html
<diplo> Currrently we run service software status and it shows all 5/6 programs are running
<diplo> ta, reading through now
<diddledan> oh, it's split. there's more spec here: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.unit.html#
<diplo> thanks
<diplo> Tis a bit of a minefield I find :)
<diddledan> yeah, it's not very well documented in an "when you want to do X. you need make Y look like"
<diddledan> way*
<diddledan> it's read the spec and guess
<diddledan> initd scripts were much more understandable because they were scripts
<diplo> I guess so yeah
<diplo> Sorry went for a walk, stretch legs and mind :)
 * diddledan expands his mind
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CS7j5I6aOc
<diplo> hah
<diplo> This just got more problematic, we do some weird and wonderful stuff in our init scripts :/
<m0nkey_> diddledan: You'll find me here :)
<diddledan> :-)
<MooDoo> howdy all
<daftykins> \o
<SuperMatt> ahoy
<foobarry> how can i get awk to print a bash variable that's a string? e.g. export FOO=BAR; awk ' { printf "$BAR" }'
<foobarry> works with integers only
<SuperMatt> I have no idea
<daftykins> it's not anything to do with print vs printf is it?
<foobarry> got it
<foobarry> its just weird with bash variables
<foobarry> cat file | awk blah works with strings
<foobarry> but bash variables requires a mega hack
<foobarry> printf "'$FOO'"
<foobarry> won't be used in prod code, don't worry
<daftykins> put in a quick comment "to be removed later - 12/7/2017" :D
<diddledan> TODO: ignore this forever more
<diddledan> TODOs rarely ever get revisited
<daftykins> ah well as a comment it'll be out of sight and out of mind :>
<diddledan> a bad idea: https://twitter.com/bdsams/status/885113497461370880
<daftykins> at least you get to visit both and don't have to pick...
<foobarry> ah i know that place
<foobarry> in dorset
<daftykins> did you visit either? :)
<foobarry> i wanted tank museum, kids wanted monkey world
<foobarry> we went to durdle door instead as it was free
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> sounds like everyone lost :D
<diddledan> I like that. compromise by choosing neither
<daftykins> heh parenting++
<diddledan> lol @ hantslug mailing list: "In my experience, compiling from source is a uniquely unsatisfying form of masochism :("
<daftykins> :D
<diplo> I've been to both, down the road from me
<diplo> Kids have been to the tank museum a few times
<diplo> Also donkey world is there as well or close by
<daftykins> D: where is this magical region?
<daftykins> diddledan: pre-emptive: down boy
<diplo> Bovington near wareham
<daftykins> wow that's almost the closest bit of land from Guernsey :>
<diplo> between weymouth and poole
 * daftykins commences swimming
<daftykins> err... http://www.tankmuseum.org/whats-on/events/bovevt53878
<diddledan> daleks are a kind of tank
<daftykins> that's true
<foobarry> diplo: will be going to portland for holiday this year again
<diddledan> I think my sdcard reader is killing any cards I put in it
<diplo> Never visited :)
<daftykins> diddledan: you must have angered it
<foobarry> :o
<foobarry> is it acceptable to have a non zero axis?
<foobarry> e.g. values from 5000-10,000
<diddledan> I don't understand. I've put several cards into it one of which I am sure was working fine last I used it, but each one has ended-up readonly
<daftykins> heh i see that happen _so_ much with Linux users
<foobarry> re-learning R is hard
<foobarry> stupid brain
<diddledan> yarr
<daftykins> an eye path might help
<daftykins> *patch
<diddledan> and a parrot
<diddledan> pieces of 7! pieces of 7
<diddledan> (that's a parrotty error)
 * daftykins insures 9
<diddledan> I know it's the daily fail, but still: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4689372/PIERS-MORGAN-Thanks-Don-Jr-smoke-burst-flames.html
<diddledan> https://i.redditmedia.com/z5E_iew_J3mHo5oyX7b4bVA25PYiHv1fpH3WeKl-ca4.jpg?w=376&s=bb809cfffed0b698c95c9fcd77e3c991
<daftykins> that's no knife!
<zmoylan-pi> you've played knifey spoony before...
<daftykins> :>
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-13
<MooDoo> hello all
<SuperMatt> ahoy-hoy
<MooDoo> howdy SuperMatt how are you this fine day?
<SuperMatt> Very well thankyou, yourself?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: yeah not 3 bad, just tired as ever :)
<SuperMatt> 3?
<MooDoo> being silly
<SuperMatt> I see
<zmoylan-pi> 4 sure
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> quit
<foobarry> never quit
<zmoylan-pi> quit quitting
<CoderEurope> Congats. #ubuntu-uk on surviving the 12th
<CoderEurope> some we're thinking of leaving. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khpa_QN2nBs
<diplo> Guys, I'm trying to make chkconfig etc work correctly with our service scripts until I set ( i know this is a ubuntu channel ) but anyone got any experience
<diplo> I found we were missing
<diplo> #chkconfig : 2345 99 01
<diplo> or whatever from the top and touch /var/lock/subsys/appname from start and rm from the stop
<diplo> And now when I run chkconfig appname on it works
<diplo> But.... the part I don't understand is, shouldn't chkconfig create a Kappname as well ?
<diplo> My google foo is failing on this
<m0nkey_> diddledan: what do you think is a good price for a used Lenovo X220?
<diddledan> Â£5
<diddledan> :-p
<m0nkey_> lol
<diddledan> I guess maybe a couple hundred for a second hand one? I don't really know what they're like new
<daftykins> hmm so that's a sandybridge era model
<daftykins> i've seen my clients X240 going for sub Â£300 now
<zmoylan-pi> i think it might depend on who's data is on the hard drive and how much you can fetch for it :-D
<daftykins> ;]
<zmoylan-pi> what am i bid for the notes and a half finished novel by one... j. archere... :-P
<daftykins> did you read about the Professor of Cryptography strolling around a Romanian flea market, chancing upon a 'broken typewriter'?
<zmoylan-pi> nice little enigma machine... that'll do nicely
<zmoylan-pi> kerching and that's not a stuck rotor arm... :-)
 * foobarry wave
<zmoylan-pi> surf
<foobarry> fancy doing a sanity check on a website for me?
<foobarry> renders ok in your browser?
<zmoylan-pi> url?
<foobarry> PM'd you
<foobarry> cangive feedback in here though
<foobarry> its not rude :D
<foobarry> just a side project i've been working on
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> PM's daftykins too
<daftykins> roger that
<daftykins> looks laid out fine to me
<foobarry> which OS daftykins ?
<daftykins> Windows 10 + FF 54.0.1 64-bit
<foobarry> cheers guys
<foobarry> markdown is awesome
<foobarry> i don't know why SCL python sucks though
<foobarry> or the python "enable optimisations"
<foobarry> any thoughts on https://remarkable.com/
<foobarry> 1st world problems, or great tech?
<daftykins> i've not read far enough to see what makes theirs the best since sliced bread, but it makes me cringe over how a client of mine is locked into this silly 'Diligent boardroom' software for distributing sensitive financial docs
<daftykins> oh and how anyone with just a PC is kind of a second class citizen to iPad owners now
<daftykins> (to some of his companies)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-14
<aardvark> hi there
<aardvark>  i'm a linux novice 7 need help
<aardvark> # &
<aardvark> anyone there??
<uboontoonoob> hello
<uboontoonoob>  anyone there
<uboontoonoob> ?
<aardvark> anyone there??
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> Happy gnu year!
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo>  morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<christel> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning christel
<MooDoo>  morning :)
<christel> how are yooou
<christel> :)
<MooDoo> I'm very well thank you :) what about your good self?
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> I'm ok thanks
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> \o/
<christel> Are you both going to come to bristol in Otcober for the freenode live conference? :D
<brobostigon> maybe, a lot of wedding planning to do, :)
<MooDoo> christel: tell me more?  first i've heard of it
<christel> WEDDING PLANNING! Madness! :D (How exciting! :D)
<brobostigon> :D
<christel> MooDoo: freenode.net -- at At-Bristol, Sat 28 and Sunday 29 October -- two days of talks,workshops, etc. totally grassroots community focused event
<christel> should (hopefully) be really good fun!
<diplo> Just up the road from me :)
<christel> diplo: NO EXCUSE THEN :D
<christel> \o/
<brobostigon> i am in the cotswolds, so not that far either.
<MooDoo> i'm in nottingham, but of a trek for me
<diplo> How are you christel - not seen or spoke to you in forever, not seen you since Alans BBQ I don't know how many years ago :)
<christel> MooDoo: nah, you'd whizz down superfast! it will be fun and would be great to see ubuntians again!
<christel> diplo: i am good! oh gosh, yes, that is rather a while now! speaking of alan, has he given up on IRC? :) how are you and the boys?
<diplo> I've not seen him in forver to be honest. Glad you're good. Boys are fine, bloody big now though! Yours must be getting on now as well?
<christel> yes! nearly done with Y2 and the baby is about to start school! madness :)
<christel> brobostigon: ooh you lucky thing, the cotswolds are beautiful
<brobostigon> christel: definitly :)
<MooDoo> i think this is the busiest i've seen the channel in a long while :)
<diplo> And you break the spell MooDoo ! All your fault :P
<MooDoo> lol
<zmoylan-pi> you just have to reminise over a great old moment, like getting sound working on early linux... :-)
<christel> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> ....and then... after 3 weeks of solid back breaking effort.... my pc beeped at me :-D
<MooDoo> installing slackware from floppies or freebsd from walnut creek :D
<zmoylan-pi> 3.5 or 5.25"? :-)
<MooDoo> hehe :)
<MooDoo> then again i'm using the i3 window manager, that in itself has a number of challenges :)
 * zmoylan-pi keeps it simple with tmux and console apps running like a happy hamster on my rasp pi
<MooDoo> yeah i got sick of a gui :)
<zmoylan-pi> green text on a black console... tis the way it was meant to be as dictated by engineers of yore... :-)
 * MooDoo enjoys having a console music player, reminds me of the old mod amiga days :)
<diplo> I use Budgie now a days, have enough consoles from customer machines
<flexiondotorg> diddledan Ping!
<diddledan> flexiondotorg: pong
<diddledan> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<diddledan> !sing
<diddledan> aww
<diddledan> the lunduke is livestreaming right now - about to grill a w3c guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHyrA5YOQ8g
 * diddledan just put pain-au-chocolate bake-yourself into the oven <3
<diddledan> --e
<diddledan> pain-au-chocolat
<daftykins> that bashrc nick flying by looks familiar
<sebsebseb> hi
<daftykins> lo
<daftykins> i was gifted some super cheap flat-pack nested tables from amazon recently, saw the reviews were all moaning about incorrectly drilled holes and so on, all assembled fine for me though :D
<daftykins> got to wonder about the validity to most amazon reviews
<zmoylan-pi> maybe they assembled the parts incorrectly :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i can just imagine the lobsided frankentables as parts from different sizes are mixed and matched... :-)
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i'm getting a bit tired of homes - http://i.imgur.com/fRipCEJ.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> get a prefab made of a shipping container... then all you need is a decent welding class for home repairs :-)
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> I'm not sure most electronics resemble bombs as much, though: https://twitter.com/RasPiTV/status/885972235294584833
<diddledan> we'll start getting bombs made into injection-moulded cases soon so they look like ordinary electronics and they then only let us on board with hacked-together rubbish
<zmoylan-pi> one of the irish robotwars teams was stopped every time they went to a match as a bunch of irish lads in a van with a bunch of welding, electronics gear, with wires, electronics and a robot was slightly suspicious to customs in uk in the 90s
<diddledan> recently an all-girl robot team from afghanistan were refused entry into the US because the authorities are bar stewards
<daftykins> and Trump sorted them out with temporary passes
<zmoylan-pi> the irish lads got very good at reassembling their ripped apart robot
<diddledan> aah, yeah, I just spotted they been overruled: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/13/all-girl-afghan-robotics-team-allowed-to-travel-to-us-after-visa-ruling-overturned
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: were customs worse than their robot enemas?
<diddledan> "your robot is nowhere near as destructive as customs!"
<diddledan> ".. so we'll beat you!"
<diddledan> "we survived customs. we'll survive your POS"
<zmoylan-pi> customs job is to make everyone feel they are lower than crap
<daftykins> point of sale?
<diddledan> daftykins: yeah. a checkout drawer makes a good armor
<diddledan> wait, did I spell that americanstyle?!
<diddledan> omg, I suck!
<daftykins> i can't even remember which is which in a lot of cases, now :(
 * zmoylan-pi hits diddledan in the colonies...
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> those are my most vulnerable areas
<diddledan> sent to the "security mailing list" which they tell you to sign up for if you want more information https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/sSYLjqVy/image.png
<diddledan> inception level recursion involved there
<diddledan> anywho. I'm sleepy
<daftykins> i should go too, but i just cracked open a Guinness West Indies Porter
<daftykins> he wasn't carrying any luggage at the time, they'll never take me alive!
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-15
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<flexiondotorg> diddledan Could you add/update the snapcrafters template README.md to your Corebird snap and I can then import that into the snapcrafters GitHub :-)
<diddledan> I'll get it done after lunch :-)
<diddledan> I'll ping you when it's ready
<flexiondotorg> Brilliant :-)
<flexiondotorg> I won't be able to complete the change of ownership in the store and what have you until Monday.
<flexiondotorg> I'll keep you informed about hooking up automatic builds etc as it happens.
<flexiondotorg> diddledan Did you see my feedback about Gimp?
<diddledan> yeah, I've hit a roadblock though: I can't get the gimp package to compile at all - complaining about python.h missing because the configure script is not looking in global directories o_O
<diddledan> it's weird because I even reverted my changes to the last successful build and that still fails :-/
<penguin42> diddledan: wrong v python ?
<diddledan> penguin42: no, it's specifically because the gcc command that ./configure is using doesn't reference /usr/lib/python or wherever the Python.h is (I forget the specific location)
<diddledan> flexiondotorg: ping: corebird now has the template README.md from snapcrafters' fork-and-rename repo. https://github.com/diddledan/corebird
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> https://github.com/diddledan/corebird-snap <<
<flexiondotorg> diddledan Looks good.
<flexiondotorg> Shall I import it to Snapcrafters?
<diddledan> yup. go ahead :-)
<flexiondotorg> Once in the Snapcrafters GitHub your repo become obsolete.
<diddledan> roger that
<flexiondotorg> Any changes should be made as pull requests to against the Snapcrafters repo for now.
<flexiondotorg> We've no finalised how to manage teams etc.
<flexiondotorg> Just so you know.
<diddledan> ok
<flexiondotorg> Thanks for working on this!
<flexiondotorg> https://github.com/snapcrafters/corebird
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> apparently I'm of the "xenial" generation. I know this because whever anyone says "acrington stanly" my immediate response is to reply in a faux scouse accent "who are they?"
<diddledan> xenials are born between 70 and 84
<diddledan> supposedly
<DJones> Hmmh, that would make xenials still kids then
<daftykins> :P
<zmoylan-pi> as a programmer i have to ask does that mean 71 -> 83? :-)
<foobarry> it means 16.04
<foobarry> personally i believe in the live aid generation. do you remember where you were when live aid was on telly/
<foobarry> i remember seeing the concorde taking phil collins to sing in USA after wembley flying over my house
<jim__> nick /m0zah
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-16
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<m0nkey_> Any of you lot tried this Outlook Premium?
<zmoylan-pi> ...they ask in a linux channel... not sure it trolling or trying to access work email without windows touching your hardware... <_< :-)
<m0nkey_> Not trolling. Just wondered if anyone tried it yet. Need a place to host e-mail, don't want to do it myself having done it for many years. Push mail would be great for mobile.
<DJones> Hmmh, a female Doctor Who, that'll certainly change things around
<DJones> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAhChdgGtHA
<penguin42> not having watched DW for many years, have they explained how they get to >12 regernerations?
<DJones> I think he was given another set of regenerations for helping ending the timewar
<DJones> I'm still trying to work out who/what/when the TARDIS was fixed so it went where and when it was supposed to, instead of the random destinations due to a fault with the TARDIS that I grew up with
<zmoylan-pi> probably just a service patch on front of tardis monthly...
<penguin42> DJones: I think 'when' would be the wrong question for a TARDIS
<DJones> penguin42: As the TARDIS is an object that seems to outside space/time, I'd  have thought there'd be an external time calculation, same as comparing UK time with UTC, UK time varies but UTC is absolute
<penguin42> DJones: No, a postcode is a better comparison, being outside of the UK it doesn't have one
<DJones> But at some point, there has to be an absolute definition of time and location, all that matters is the starting point
<DJones> If you know the start point & time, any location can be defined by distance, angle, time from start point
<DJones> Maybe a simplistic view, but works for me
<penguin42> why does there have to be an absolute definition ? (I don't think there is an absolute definition of location in our universe - there may be of time?)
<DJones> I doubt there is to earth, , I guess the thought is that the big bang happened somewhere, anything outside of that location can be defines by distance, time since big bang, angle from original big bang
<DJones> If you know the big bang happened at a location, then x million light years from that place at 15 degree's would be the same place no matter what date or time you looked at
<DJones> Unless the big bang location moves
<DJones> In which case we're screwed anyway
<diddledan> no, because the universe isn't a fixed size - it's getting bigger
<diddledan> so 15 meeleon light years will be a different point depending upon the expansion
<diddledan> it will be the same coordinates, yes, but the actual surroundings will change
<diddledan> relatively
<diddledan> and speed is also something to factor. speed, and mass therefore gravity
<diddledan> gravity changes time
<diddledan> speed changes time
<diddledan> and don't forget the green whirly things
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81W8tG3wH_4
<diddledan> and of course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6zwALJ8TVk
<zmoylan-pi> it just let itself go as it hit middle age...
<m0nkey_> This is awesome. I've just found out Google Voice assistant can control my Philips Hue lights.
<m0nkey_> Now I feel like I'm living in a episode of Star Trek TNG
<zmoylan-pi> i'm more ds9 with chief o'brien kicking the console... :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-09
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> doh too late to good morn, i can good afty instead \o
<MattJ> Good aftymorn
 * zmoylan-pi pushes the plate of donuts towards daftykins 
<daftykins> \o/ ooh don't mind if i do
<daftykins> looking forward to this heat subsiding tomorrow
<MattJ> Is it now?
<daftykins> down here at least, allegedly
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-10
<guest0753> on 18.04 "Release file for http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic-security/InRelease is not valid yet (invalid for another 11h 35min 33s). Updates for this repository will not be applied." anyone know how to fix this?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<czajkows1i> aloha
<brobostigon> hu
<brobostigon> hi
<mgdm> 'lo czajkowski
<mgdm> and everyone else
<daftykins> interesting - https://sensorstechforum.com/arch-linux-aur-repository-found-contain-malware/
<daftykins> that'll get the Linux ricers scratching their heads
 * zmoylan-pi awaits the day gentoo gets malware... :-)
<MattJ> But what if gentoo /is/ malware?
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> then it's self assembly malware...
<daftykins> [254592.953997] do_IRQ: 1.34 No irq handler for vector
<daftykins> mystery message on TTYs with the 18.04 server install on an intel coffeelake board (8th gen)
<diddledan> daftykins: your cpu can't handle vectors?!
<diddledan> aren't vectors just numbers??
<daftykins> and vauxhalls
<daftykins> maybe the coffelake can't drive
<daftykins> (i know, vectra, but let's pretend it's not)
<diddledan> you want minecraft for vauxhalls
<diddledan> might be a microcode issue?
<diddledan> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/03/msg00726.html
<daftykins> apcupsd can't see the (connected and visible in lsusb) UPS over USB, too
<diddledan> :-(
<daftykins> ah well, haven't tested much yet :D
<daftykins> seems plenty folk with 18.04 are experiencing EFI boot failing since some updates today
<diddledan> oh dear
<diddledan> what did they break?
<daftykins> dunno! well, besides boot
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> apparently the placement of files on the efi boot partition go wobbly
<diddledan> I wonder how long it'll be before BIOS mode disappears from UEFI
<diddledan> (so-called CSM)
<diddledan> tomorrow's FT front page: https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1016823987178033152
<daftykins> that coffeelake board had it all locked down and disabled when i first fired it up
<daftykins> had to have option ROMs enabled to see the SATA RAID HBA's screens, of corse
<daftykins> *course
<diddledan> with option roms it's a bit of a mess right now with some supporting efi, some bios, and fewer both
<diddledan> so you need to futs about to get the right setup to get into them
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> aaah tonight is so much better than last night, the air outside is actually cool!
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> I'm baking
<daftykins> are you up in a roof? i've not gone up to the bedroom yet to see if it's improved vs yesterday
<diddledan> I'm a middle floor flat
<daftykins> just the ground floor here in my granite walls which has been ace in every summer, nicely insulated
<daftykins> ah ha still 25 up here, but it's not bad
<daftykins> diddledan: thanks to the link you shared for ESXi i'll have to do my first ever upgrade tomorrow!
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> may as well coincide with the patch tuesday efforts
<daftykins> oh no i think i've become mosquito central up here, i hear several buzzing
<daftykins> time to sleep! nn \o :D
<diddledan> Aye, me too.. no
<diddledan> Err, nn
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-11
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<brobostigon> https://www.dndice.co.uk/store/p11/Chromatic-Dragon-Red something nice for my birthday, :)
<halt> Morning All, the Bluetooth under 18.10 is pretty buggy around sleep / resume, so I have to run restart on that after resume, so I was thinking that should run that as a systemd unit, and I think I have the task file, but not sure where to put it, it should be run as root, but still it's not system thing, I read up on http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man5/systemd.unit.5.html so I tried first  $HOME/.config/systemd/user/*, then /etc/systemd
<halt> but instead of keep guessing, I thought I just ask it here
<halt> Here is the script itself, just in case the error is there https://pastebin.com/raw/tNtrfCvC
<willcooke> halt, side note - is there a bug open in Launchpad for the generally bugginess of bluez?
<halt> willcooke: I believe yes https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1561474 maybe this one ?
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1561474 in linux (Ubuntu) "Bluetooth will be disable after resume from suspend on Xenial" [Medium,Confirmed]
<willcooke> thanks halt
<willcooke> I'll get someone to have a look
<zmoylan-pi> caused by the bring back irda front! :-)
<halt> willcooke: btw if you, or anyone can help me to collect related logs for the dubugging more then happy to help to fix the bug instead of just going around it, but it might be hw specific
<halt> the issue is simple after resume the connections to the laptop do not work, I have a BT headphones, which try hard to connect but fails, after BT restart it's all find connect on first try
<willcooke> halt, oki thanks, I'll ask our bluez expert to take a look and let him know to ask for logs if he needs them
<willcooke> halt, oh, what hardware are you using?
<halt> 20K5S27U00
<halt> ( a.k.a. Lenovo Thinkpad X270 )
<willcooke> ha, same as me.  That should be easy for me to test then
<halt> I have a Bose QC 35 to it, that is pretty much the only BT device I use, but I guess the same effect should apply to things like mouse or etc
<willcooke> yeah I'll try with one of my BT speakers
<halt> In terms of OS
<halt> facter os.distro.description
<halt> Ubuntu 18.04 LTS
<halt> apt-cache policy bluez
<halt> bluez:
<halt>   Installed: 5.48-0ubuntu3
<halt>   Candidate: 5.48-0ubuntu3
<halt>   Version table:
<halt>  *** 5.48-0ubuntu3 500
<halt>         500 http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 Packages
<halt>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<willcooke> halt, just spoke to the expert - the fix should be in proposed in Bionic already, so if you're feeling brave, it's worth trying
<halt> willcooke: that is great new ... so proposed hmm OK I pin it and check it this weekend
<halt> willcooke: I could not wait till the weekend so I give a try to it and it works so happy days, all good
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-12
<Knightw0rk> mornig
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<halt> Good Morning !
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> hry brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<Guest83> Hello
<Guest83> I have some issue while trying to boot to another partition
<daftykins> #ubuntu for main support then
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-13
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<brobostigon> anyone know of any cli spreadsheet apps?
<zmoylan-pi> sc for linux. i do use an old dos spreadsheet as easy as in dosemulator. superfast and and fully keyboard driven which is nice
<zmoylan-pi> sc would be nice but the commands are horrible
<zmoylan-pi> but with as easy as i can use lotus 123 commands i learned 30 years ago and are still embedded in muscle memory
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: cheers, let me try it, :)
<marshmn> so.... I installed system updates this morning... and now mouse doesn't behave in PhpStorm for some reason...
<marshmn> I'm not saying it's definitely related, but...
<marshmn> mouse acts weird as though it's trying to select things without me clicking, and right-click doesn't work
<marshmn> seems same with track-pad and mouse
<marshmn> mouse seems to function just fine everywhere else though
<marshmn> it's a bit like PhpStorm thinks the left mouse button is constantly pressed down or similar
<marshmn> hmmm, seems to be touchscreen related...
<marshmn> touching the touchscreen seemed to fix it (?)
<marshmn> how does one disable the touchscreen anyway?
<marshmn> I never use it...
<marshmn> that issue was driving me crazy for a little while there
<ubuntu-mate> hi all I am on a live disk
<safiyyah> sorry, I am on a live disk, I just want to back up my home drive
<safiyyah> but it was encripted I think so it says permission denied
<safiyyah> i can't log into it
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-14
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<brobostigon> my little daughter is on her way, labour has started, :)
<zmoylan-pi> good luck!
<brobostigon> ty, :)
<zmoylan-pi> so... you going to raise her a vim or emacs user? :-P
<brobostigon> emacs all the way. :)
<zmoylan-pi> trekkie or star wars?
<brobostigon> definitly trekkie, :D
<zmoylan-pi> ...or whovian...
<brobostigon> that too, :)
<zmoylan-pi> python or perl?
<zmoylan-pi> zx spectrum or c64?
<brobostigon> hmm, neither, C++. definitly c64.
<zmoylan-pi> there's so much they don't prepare you for to be a parent... :-D
<brobostigon> definitly not.
<zmoylan-pi> at least you can start their geekdom young now... https://www.zazzle.com/dungeons+and+dragons+baby+clothes
<brobostigon> hehe, :)
<marshmn> so... say I want a script that I call with sudo, and I want to pass a command with args to the script and have that command be run as another user (using su)
<marshmn> (it's not what I want to do, but it illustrates things)
<marshmn> I have this working using a here document, like this: https://src.crazedbytes.net/snippets/11
<marshmn> but it feels like there should be a way to do that using 'su -c ...' - but I can't get the escaping right to make that work
<marshmn> I tried this for example: https://src.crazedbytes.net/snippets/12
<marshmn> any ideas on how I make that work?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-15
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> all go well yesterday brobostigon?
<brobostigon> false alarm unfortunatly, although she is 4 days overdue, so they might induce her if she gets too late.
<zmoylan-pi> pity, having a birthday on bastille day could be fun :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> an entire country is celebrating your birthday :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> hey zmoylan-pi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<knightwise> appears to be a lazy sunday here
 * penguin42 yaaawwwwnnns at knightwise
<zmoylan-pi> some football thingy on i think
<brobostigon> is there? i didnt realise, i was watching back to the future, :)
<zmoylan-pi> i went for a walk in the damp drizzle... bliss
<zmoylan-pi> after 40 days of no rain it was a nice change
<brobostigon> we have yet to see any here, still scorching and dry as a bone.
<penguin42> we've had a couple of heavy showers on Thursday and Friday, tomorrow is supposed to be quite wet around lunchtime
<zmoylan-pi> on friday they were saying no rain forecast for at least 10 days but it seems to be changing a little. not much rain but a little relief after none
<penguin42> yeh the forecast has been very random - on thursday it was showing the weekend as hot and dry, then on friday it changed the temperature for saturday/sunday down to 20c-ish, and it's worked out closer to 24-25 - but then they have next week as cooler
<knightwise> man  i wish we had some rain here
<zmoylan-pi> be careful what you wish for...
<zmoylan-pi> but they've been dredging back through rainfall records for over 160 years to get to a summer as dry as this in ireland...
<zmoylan-pi> and i'm not sure if that's when it happened last time or the records only go back that far...
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-12
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
 * daftykins nudges diddledan 
 * zmoylan-pi hands daftykins my electric nudging stick
<brobostigon> a klingon pain stick might be more effective, lol.
<zmoylan-pi> it _is_ a klingon pain stick... :-)
<brobostigon> :D
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> always trying to give that fella some work but he's silent!
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-13
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-14
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> hows it hangin dude
<brobostigon> reinstalled haiku on my eeepc, works beautifully, my portable friend, otherwise not bad, and you?
<knightwise> whow :) thats a throwback. What EEE do you have ,
<brobostigon> 900 ssd 1gb ram.
<knightwise> Ho god :) You still use that one ?
<knightwise> I think i have a 1st gen 701 lying around here
<brobostigon> yes :). i use it mostly at the gaming table to reference rules and spells etc.
<brobostigon> because it is nice and small, and doesnt overwhelm the table.
<knightwise> yep , thats true.
<knightwise> and its still a nice geeky machine
<brobostigon> oh yes, :)
<brobostigon> and being a netbook, it is such an extreme usecase for haiku, that its useful to work out problems on.
<brobostigon> https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/3933 and i helped work out the bug, that helped haiku run on it.
<knightwise> awesome :)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> thinking of trying tinycore on my old netbook. 1gb of ram doesn't run any modern distros well anymore
<brobostigon> and by distro, i assume you mean a gnu/linux OS, not something like haiku or a bsd.
<brobostigon> i have tried openbsd on said eeepc, and it works quite well.
