#edubuntu 2005-09-26
<jelkner> which he has taught me since i first met him were the 5 most important words in computing
<jelkner> "did you back it up?"
<ogra> hey, its ltsp :) you still can access the chroot
<ogra> dont worry...
<jelkner> so what do we do?
<jelkner> i'm still logged in
<ogra> in the client ? 
<jelkner> yes
<jelkner> a different client
<ogra> ah, ok...
<jelkner> if i log out, i wont' be able to log in again
<ogra> so what did you do exactly ? 
<jelkner> flint here.  I put the gzip stuff in the directory as per the instrux
<ogra> ok
<ogra> and installed python-gnome2 in the chroot environment ? 
<ogra> oh, the instructions are wrong i see...
<ogra> do:
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/
<ogra> sudo apt-get update
<ogra> sudo apt-get install python-gnome2
<ogra> thats should solve it
<jelkner> oh got it...
<ogra> instructions fixed for next time, sorry...
<jelkner> sudo: unable to lookup edubuntu via gethostbyname()
<jelkner>   remember this bug?
<ogra> its no bug
<ogra> its another error in my instructions, silly me... you are root after the chroot
<ogra> so just drop the sudo (sorry, its late here) 
<jelkner> and the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list contains only the cd
<jelkner> so i needed copy over the other one
<jelkner> the new login rocks!
<jelkner> Sauron is dead!
<jelkner> log live edubuntu!
<ogra> great
<jelkner> nice touch ollie
<ogra> it might be taht the pic is a bit moved, i didnt fix that yet and mdz wants me to work on the old ldm
<ogra> so that will have to wait... but its *something* you can use that not worse than the other one :)
<ogra> s/that not/taht is not/
<ogra> and it took me only a short weekend to write :)
<ogra> oh, and there are themes, look at them if you want your own ...
<jelkner> where do I find the themes ollie?
<ogra> (just set the link in /usr/share/ldm/themes to your default theme
<ogra> )
<ogra> (in the chroot that is)
<jelkner> he had so much fun breaking it the first time, he wants to try again ;-)
<jelkner> god help me!  (fllint :^)
<ogra> a theme is a color file for the colors, a background image and two button icons
<ogra> lol
<jelkner> ollie jeff is gone so I am gone too!  Thanks again!!!!!  we meet tomorrow morning!
<ogra> yup, bye
<Mosheee> RAHALF...
<Mosheee> I am the biggest internet-Troll ever!
<Mosheee> Read my Sign with Bell Book and Candle!
<Mosheee> Rescue me!
<nybble> ttyl people
* nybble is away: I'm busy
* nybble is back (gone 00:00:03)
<JaneW> morning
<shaga> good morning
<rejden> <moin
<magnon> morning jane :)
<magnon> JaneW: I was asking oliver, do you guys know any hardware vendors who have been particularily nice when it comes to edu-efforts so far, tuxlabs etc?
<JaneW> hi magnon
<JaneW> magnon: well tuxlabs have been pretty separate from edubuntu
<JaneW> in that tuxlabs started way before edubuntu was even a twinkle in Mark's eye ;)
<JaneW> I would need to ask the tuxlabs guys about h/w vendors
<JaneW> afaik they have received donation of old and used equipment from compnaies etc around the world
<JaneW> as far as edubuntu goes we have had one or 2 enquiries, but nothing solid yet...
<JaneW> there are ppl wanting to invest in CSR programs, and see edubuntu as a way to deliver their donations in a useable format :)
<JaneW> magnon: does that answer your question?
<magnon> somewhat :)
<JaneW> sorry to be a bit vauge
<JaneW> tackle hughvoltage when he is around wrt tuxlab specifics...
<magnon> well, it shouldn't be too hard to just call someone and find out what they can provide
<magnon> I mean, who doesn't want their company logo on thousands of clients all over the country (give or take a few thousand :P)
<JaneW> yes well we still need to release and prove ourselves...
<JaneW> everybody loves the idea of edubuntu but until they see that it works, and is supportable, it's not on 1000's of clients
<magnon> which is why I said give or take a few thousand
<JaneW> in SA ppl are also fairly wary of good simaritans who swoop in and donate something and disappear and it quickly becomes a white elephant
<magnon> as in "who knows"
<JaneW> so support is a big factor
<magnon> hey, that's what I live for :P
<JaneW> also a big part of the cost (and effort) of implementing labs here is the physical security
<JaneW> as well as other constraints like electricity, phone line, internet connection etc
<magnon> h
<JaneW> these thinsg are a given in the developed world
<magnon> yeah*
<magnon> you'd be surprised how often it isn't...
<JaneW> oic
<magnon> you can't take a fast net connection or electricity for granted
<magnon> physical security is easier, of course
<JaneW> so it's far more complex than just having a piece of hardware and some software
<JaneW> then the other big problem, which ppl complain about, is lack of adequate training
<magnon> but outside Oslo, electricity is unstable and phone lines downright suck :P
<magnon> yup
<JaneW> so the cool equipment in the lab, get pushed to the side and 'out of the way', because no one knows what to do with it.
<magnon> that's what we're working on too
<magnon> I found the best way to create interest
<magnon> Applets :)
<JaneW> heh
<magnon> seriously. Teachers love applets
<JaneW> yes the gimmicky things work well, I find most ppl learn PC literacy easilly once they are comforatble with one thing, whether is e-mail, a game, browsing etc. Once the fear is gone they are more open to try things and experiment a bit
<magnon> not that it solves the problem of adequate knowledge about computing, but it makes them open
<magnon> yeah
<JaneW> also they need to find someting that interests them
<magnon> there's always an applet ;)
<JaneW> at a previous company I worked for users would get their PC and be terrified
<JaneW> most were 40 somthing females never touched a PC before
<magnon> hm
<JaneW> with in a week they have all changed the fonts, colours, screen saver, wall paper etc...
<magnon> they'd need to be at least 50something to never have used a pc before
<magnon> here
<JaneW> looked hideous, but it was THEIRS and they felt they knew it
<magnon> hehe
<JaneW> was a property company
<magnon> wish I could have some people who never used a pc before, but were open minded
<JaneW> previous house wives...
<JaneW> my step dad was old
<JaneW> he died earlier this year at 84
<JaneW> and he would try just about anything
<magnon> sorry to hear that
<JaneW> I helped him to increase his font sizes about 2 weeks before he died, because he was battling to read the screen easily
<JaneW> he e-mailed, and practised writing little programs, created spreadsheets and docs etc, it was amazing
<magnon> wow
<JaneW> he also tuaght me how to fix my car ;)
<JaneW> not that I would bother to do much anymore, but at least I know enough now to know when the mechanic is ripping me off ;)
<magnon> old people are such an underused resource.
<JaneW> well the ubuntu devel guys have an expression 'could my granny do it'
<magnon> grannies are way different though
<JaneW> true
<JaneW> but that's the acid test
<JaneW> esp with pcs
<magnon> me and my friend went to this pub, pretty brown place
<JaneW> if your granny could do it it is technically EASY
<magnon> met some guy, old sailor who had been in cosmetics (!)
<magnon> true
<magnon> had a long chat with him, four hours went by and we didn
<magnon> 't notice - however, he told us about his business, we discussed politics, he told sailor stories, and I told him about wikipedia, online gaming and open source
<JaneW> cool
<JaneW> Sid was like that
<JaneW> he was in the war
<magnon> most open minded guy I ever met, guess he was sixty-something
<JaneW> (lived through both, but fought in #2)
<JaneW> all the way to CD, cell phones, programmming his pc and playing games (doom) etc!
<magnon> hehe
<magnon> we met another guy at the same place though, he asked about my friends t-shirt
<magnon> it has the norwegian flag, uncolored, and it says "paint with your own colors", anti racist movement shirt
<magnon> he's like "uhm, isn't that supposed to be red white and blue?"
<magnon> my mate says "hey, it can be whatever you want!" and he mumbles "bah, youth are so naive..." and wanders off
<magnon> that's what I meant with grannies are different
<magnon> some grannies just don't WANT to send the email, or play Doom :P
<JaneW> yes
* JaneW 's MIL is very closed minded
<JaneW> irritates me a lot
<JaneW> and in her mind anything she doesn;t agree with is deemed rubbish
<magnon> I get that a lot
<JaneW> i.e. most things
<magnon> be it politics or computers
* magnon calls Sun
<magnon> want a price quote on the new Fire servers :)
<magnon> hahaha. I love local sales offices.
<magnon> "Hey, I wondered if the local pricing for the new Fire servers are ready, and when it is due to relase here?"
<magnon> "Sorry, I haven't heard of those"
<magnon> and the resellers are full of crap
<magnon> "The company values and goals are efficiency, X-factor, customer focus, innovation, team orientation and execution"
<magnon> you were doing what, again? :P
<JaneW> heh
<shaga> oh, I accidentally disconnect myself from freenode network
<shaga> gdm/Xorg just said kosh after dist-upgrade and reboot :D
<ogra> shaga, sounds like http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12915
<shaga> I hate browsing with elinks without framebuffer-resolutions, I'll look into it once this situation cools down a bit here at work
<ogra> look if the mousedev modules s loaded 
<shaga> it's not, and amixer also gives some serious errors about missing files while shutting down..
<ogra> try to run: sudo udevstart, that should give you the devices back, then you can run sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start to have a working X again
<shaga> it works, thanks for the help. :)
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> **Reminder** update meeting in 35 mins in #ubuntu-meeting
<magnon> does anyone know if Sun Ray clients have ever been used against LTSP?
<mark__> Hello edubuntu folk ... I'm having a little difficulty setting up edubuntu - is anyone available to chat a little?
<magnon> ask away
<mark__> hey - thanks :)
<shaga> I'm not a geek with ubuntu at all but I'm watching ;)
<mark__> Here's my setup - A server with 2 nics (1 internal 1 pci) - I have ltsp running with kubuntu - but it's been misbehaving
<mark__> so I decided to try edubuntu -
<mark__> install went ok - but I was a little confused that it asked for a static ip for the nic
<mark__> that's my first question - can I force dhcp for that nic - since I have 2 
<mark__> 1 nic for internet - 1 nic for ltsp
<ogra> mark__, ltsp needs a static ip
<ogra> since you run a dhcp server on it
<mark__> yeah - my 2nd nic takes care of that - but the install is forcing eth0 to be static
<ogra> cat you just change the cables ? 
<ogra> *cant
<mark__> :) -- I prefer not to ... but I suppose that is an option ...
<mark__> ok - so we'll switch the cables ... question 2 ... 
<ogra> (i.e. does it matter which one you use for ltsp ? )
<mark__> not really
<mark__> Once it's all installed / running - I cannot, for the life of me, get the dhcp server to run
<mark__> I copy over my dhcpd.conf and re-assign the address of the interface but it complains of no 'subnet declaration'
<ogra> mark__, there is a bug in the ltsp setup that i hopefully have solved by the beginning of next week... if you accept the defaults everything will work fine
<ogra> argh, dot do that
<mark__> ah ... accept the defaults
<ogra> ltsp brings its own dhcp.conf
<mark__> oh - don't copy over the file :)
<mark__> gotcha .. 
<ogra> thats the one that will be generated automatically by determining the static ip in the future
<mark__> ogra - is edubuntu cool with setting up 2 nics?
<mark__> I prefer to keep the internet traffic primarily on 1 and ltsp on the other - but it seems edubuntu only anticipates 1 nic?
<ogra> its not prepared for 2 nics in this release, but its quite easy to set up the second post install
<mark__> so - if I have 2 I just have to figure that eth0 will be ltsp/dhcp3-server and eth1 I can configure as my internet 
<ogra> yup
<mark__> hrm ... I see -- so, let me recap for myself ...
<ogra> just do a chicken install (hitting enter all the time)and configure your eth1 post install
<JaneW> **Reminder** update meeting in 15 mins in #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra> that should give you a working environment immediately
<mark__> hm -- that's pretty funny .. never heard 'chicken-install' before...
<JaneW> ;)
<ogra> put some seeds on the enter key and put a chicken in front of your kbd ;) 
<mark__> ok - I guess the only thing I have to fill in is the ip address for the static nick (and buy a chicken...)
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> mark__: preferably unfrozen!
<mark__> :)
<ogra> we consider if we ship chickens in future bxed releases ;)
<mark__> the frozen ones can be so non-cooperative ...
<ogra> and seeds indeed in a extra box ;)
<mark__> send peeps -- then people are like 'oooh, they're so cute' - and then they won't mind when the chicken is pooping all over the house later...
<shaga> :D
<mark__> Content filtering -- are there any instructions on using squidguard (I think that's what the site lists)
<mark__> I currently use Dansguardian with KDE and lock-down everything with the kioskadmin tool - but I like Gnome too much ...
<mark__> except - one smart child and they've reset their proxy info ...
<ogra> a good content filtering solution didnt make it into this release, just install squidguard... there are some notes i have to copy over from the ubuntu wiki
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContentFiltering
<mark__> does squidguard do system - wide filtering?
<ogra> ^^
<mark__> oh - cool -- thanks
<ogra> all http traffic... if you set it up as transparent proxy
<ogra> we'll have a gui and metapackage in the next release with a easy configuration
<mark__> ooo, gui ... gui's make me happy ...
<ogra> if you want additional firewalling, i'd suggest firestarter for now its not good, but the best we have currently
<mark__> I'm not too worried about firewalling -- I'm double nat'd and I turn the machine off after our after-school program
<ogra> ok
<mark__> with squid-guard ... does the install come with transparent proxy already set - or do I need to tinker (scanning the wiki now ...)
<ogra> we have a ongoing firewalling bounty but that didnt make this release
<ogra> its described in the wiki
<mark__> shucks ... 
<ogra> you'll need to set up a blacklist manually, get it from squidguard.org....
<mark__> to transparently proxy - I need those IPTables rules?
<ogra> yup
<mark__> that's cool ...
<mark__> ok - and that's where the gui will come in in the future - to set iptables rules and the like...
<shaga> I have disabled router-based nat/firewall and all that, I'm behind active connection. are there much leaks if I use software firewall?
<ogra> mark__, yup
<shaga> I haven't even thought about security, only good p2p connections :p
<shaga> connectivity, easily..
<ogra> you have a "real" ip on the server ?
<ogra> (an external one assigned by your ISP ?)
<shaga> I have real ip on my computer, I don't have any other computers(servers) connected just yet..
<mark__> Thanks ogra ...
<ogra> edubuntu comes with a good bunch of server software preinstalled, this will be accessible from the internet, i'd strongly suggest to enable NAT on your router again...
<JaneW> **Reminder** update meeting in 3 mins in #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra> ... if you want p2p capability your router should offer a method to forward just the ports you need for p2p
<mark__> ogra - he could serve out ltsp to the world though ... that would be friendly :)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> i doubt booting would work (never tried it though)
<shaga> okay, will do, thanks.. I've been thinking about it for some days now as I could use even udp.. :) time for a cig, damn I've worked hard for today..
* ogra quickly makes some fresh coffee for the meeting
<mark__> is this a private meeting or can public schmoes like me 'listen' in?
<JaneW> anyone is welcome
<mark__> fun ... If I don't need to pack up right away I'll be over ... (I'm in a Panera ... I feel compelled to buy something now since I'm mooching free wifi)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: busy with the wiki eh
<ogra> jsgotangco, meeting ;)
<jsgotangco> gaahhh
<Yagisan> ogra: If I install edbuntu amd64 on my server, do I need to do anything special for my i386 clients to set them up ?
<ogra> ltsp currently has no multiarch feature.... you'd have to do a i386 install on the server too...
<ogra> i'm not sure if mdz planned to add this before release...
<Yagisan> really
<Yagisan> damm
<ogra> it will be there eventually, but needs some tweakage in the install scripts...
<ogra> and i'm not sure if we will see it before release
<Yagisan> ok
<Yagisan> I'll grab the i386 iso to test. Whats quicker torrent or http ?
<ogra> i'm not even sure how many people grab the torrent yet, but i guess there are not many so the speed might be the same...
<shaga> are there problems with the speed?
<shaga> I might start seed-help
<Yagisan> I'll grab the torrent then
<ogra> shaga, i didnt test the torrent yet ...
<shaga> I'll see how it runs
<ogra> if you do, reeport errors ere, i'll care for it
<Yagisan> ok - the last time I did a ltsp install was back with ltsp 3. Is there anything I should look out for ?
<ogra> Yagisan, http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting :)
<shaga> I'm only getting 2-3kb/s
<Yagisan> I get 809 bytes on torrent :(
<shaga> but it seems that 6 are seedonly, and no other downloads
<ogra> if you follow that and leave the defaults as is during install (you can change them post install), it should work out of the box
<shaga> quite strange
<shaga> oh, there are 9 downloading as it seems
<jsgotangco> ogra: no more dhcp config?
<ogra> thats what i suspected, not enough users for the torrent
<Yagisan> I have port forwarding set up, and don't use 6881
<Yagisan> :(
<shaga> I'll help with the seeding
<shaga> I only tested to download to different folder
<ogra> jsgotangco, not completely, but it works with the defaults... 
<jsgotangco> ogra: please fill up the release notes as it progresses at your free time =)
<ogra> jsgotangco, i still need to write the dynamically generation of the dhcp.conf
<jsgotangco> there's not much technical details i can put
<ogra> i'll do
<jsgotangco> since you're the one who's most involved with development
<Yagisan> I've a slightly technical question
<ogra> lol
<ogra> jsgotangco, most involved is funny...
<Yagisan> opengl - is it render client side or server side ?
<ogra> edubuntu is a one man show wrt development
<ogra> client side indeed
<sivang> hi all
<ogra> but the datsa still needs to go through the net
<sivang> I am downloading the preview right now, as per Jane's email for requesting tester
<sivang> s
<sivang> however, BitTorrent is SO SLOW...
<ogra> sivang, rather take the daily
<ogra> there were some improvements...
<Yagisan> so the geforce 4 in my thin client will do all the opengl work ?
<jsgotangco> yes
<magnon> bah, just leech iso :)
<ogra> Yagisan, yup... the Xserver runs locally on the client, everything else comes form the server
<Yagisan> heh - I'm upping the torrent at 32k, and getting 4k down
<shaga> I'm seeding it 30kB/s and it's still going up
<Yagisan> thanks ogra. It helps to test my deng if it has client side opengl
<ogra> :)
<Yagisan> time to some test my first ebay pentium 2
<sivang> ogra: ok, now downloading the daily :)
<Yagisan> s/some/smoke/
<sivang> magnon: leeching the iso as you suggested
<shaga> I haven't tested much opengl in edubuntu yet with my gf6600gt pci/e
<Yagisan> finally 81k
<Yagisan> we have etherboot ?
<Yagisan> none of my net cards are pxe
<magnon> sivang: it can be excused for testing imo ;)
<ogra> Yagisan, ouch...
<ogra> Yagisan, we have etherboot, but nobody has tested it at all yet
<sivang> magnon: k 
* Yagisan will test it
<Yagisan> reatlek 8139, amd pcnet32 thanks :)
<Yagisan> damm can't type today
<Yagisan> yes - it passed the smoke test :)
<ogra> http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting updated with the latest instructions :)
<Yagisan> thanks
<Yagisan> my wife will get an interesting thin client - P2 233 64MB + Geforce 4MX 440 64MB
<Yagisan> I love spare parts
<ogra> sounds good for a thin client
<Yagisan> I'm planning to use it for my business
<Yagisan> I have one overpowered box
<Yagisan> and several "relics"
<magnon> hehehe
<ogra> perfect
<magnon> I'm still chuckling over the poor Sun lady
<magnon> "Sun... fire? servers? uhm..."
<Yagisan> 64bit kernel should be fine on i386 (for the server) ?
<Yagisan> don't want to lose my 64bit chroots for testing
<ogra> hmm, unlikely, but try it...
<ogra> the libc and other stuff at least needs to be 64bit too... i doubt it will work mixed up
<Yagisan> really ?
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> I thought it would be fine with i386 support in kernel
<Yagisan> thats how I test deng
<ogra> else we wouldnt have probs with things ike flash/firefox on amd64
<ogra> you could just run the 32bit version...
* Yagisan thinks flash is a parasite on the web
<ogra> but running 32bit ff in a 64bit system is a PITA...
<ogra> and requires a lot of manual work
<Yagisan> I was just interested in a 64bit kernel
<Yagisan> I can change userland to 32bit
<ogra> as i said, try it, but i doubt it will work
<Yagisan> will give it a go soon
<Yagisan> just need to get a keyboard + monitor for the 1s client
<magnon> ogra: Flash isn't working in 64bit environments?
<ogra> magnon, macromedia doesnt offer t
<ogra> it
<Yagisan> personally - I don't miss flash. The web has less ads without it
<magnon> Doh
<ogra> norway does some (lots ? ) of its school tests in flash
<magnon> politically, those school tests can go hang themselves
<magnon> and all
<magnon> shoot any supporters etc.
<magnon> anything more contra-educative... sigh
<ogra> yes, but its a decision blocker for lnux i think...
<ogra> linux even
<magnon> Flash should be a decision blocker for Flash
<ogra> heh
<magnon> there's no a11y, and it's a pain to support
<magnon> but again, bureaucrats aren't good at these things anyway
<magnon> most teachers who raise concern about flash would probably be happy if I said it made them unable to take those national tests :P
<Yagisan> no issues with nvidia or ati drivers on clients ?
<magnon> my guess is that those tests will disappear now that we got a new govt
<magnon> Yagisan: I would think that they work fine
<ogra> hmm, there may besome out of sync prob with the restricted drivers... its a normal problem in our development releases...
<Yagisan> ok. I'd just like to check as I haven't seen any notes
<Yagisan> why nfs ?
<ogra> because its common ? 
<ogra> we already have a complete new shiny ltsp that doesnt use X exports... 
<ogra> i want to try to switch to a cluster filesstem for dapper... until the nfs is stable and proven to be good
<ogra> s/until the/until then/
<Yagisan> ok - nfs 2 ? 3 ?
<ogra> 3
<ogra> the default in the current kernel
<Yagisan> (I ask, because I have to start analysing the security implications of these choices)
<Yagisan> ok - 2
<ogra> oh
<Yagisan> my job. I'm a security consultant
<Yagisan> and I'm building a new network for myself
<ogra> oh, then you 'll love our ltsp :)
<Yagisan> I'd like to show it to clients as an alternative to windows
<ogra> originally tsp uses X over tcp... thats security hell
<Yagisan> I liked ltsp when I last used it - but it was a PITA to keep secure
<Yagisan> and updated
<ogra> we use ssh tunnels instead and its fully pgradeable
<ogra> man my keyboard sucks
<Yagisan> excellent
<Yagisan> blowfish ?
<Yagisan> or aes ?
<ogra> nfs is the only thing that really needs improvement...
<ogra> both i think... i'd have to look at the code
<Yagisan> what about eg samba (yes I know it has a history)
<Yagisan> I meant by default - aes or blowfish
<ogra> its there, but unconfigured yet... i think about a open directory for sharing files through it
<Yagisan> I like blowfish by default with openvpn - it has the highest throughput on old pcs
<ogra> 'blowfish-cbc,aes128-cbc,3des-cbc'
<Yagisan> thanks
<ogra> thats from the login manager
<Yagisan> excuse me - mt little girl is climbing in my thin clients
<ogra> heh
<Yagisan> back - she's only 18 months - but she loves my computers
<Yagisan> ok - logins and x are tunneled over shh ?
<Yagisan> ssh
<ogra> all of ltsp is tunneled
<ogra> except nfs
<Yagisan> ok. if you use smb it should be possible to send that over ssh as well
<Yagisan> otherwise ipsec for local lan
<ogra> but thats something for dapper... 
<ogra> currently i have to concentrate getting the release ready and fix the remaining bugs...
<ogra> there wont be much architectural changes anymore
<Yagisan> no worries - I'd like to get my network up and running asap too
<Yagisan> but it is possible - right ?
<ogra> but feel free to consult here for dappers security issues :)
<ogra> i love every helping hint i can get to make it perfect
<Yagisan> I'd be interested in doing a security audit of it
<ogra> (i havent the expectation to have the first release perfect, its just the base we build on in the future)
<Yagisan> I already found one ubuntu bug without really looking
<ogra> heh, thats easy in the current state :)
<Yagisan> heh - it was an information disclosure
<ogra> oh
<Yagisan> pitti - fixed it for breezy after I mentioned it at UDU
<Yagisan> but nobody fixed hoary as far as I can tell
<Yagisan> out of curiosity - if I have a breezy chroot - just installing the ltsp-server package is enough to start testing right ?
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinkClientHowto
<ogra_> oops https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto
<ogra_> you install ltsp-server-standalone and run sudo ltsp-build-client
<Yagisan> ok. I allready have a dhcp server so I should be ok
<Yagisan> how are "local apps" handled now ?
<ogra> there are none currently...
<ogra> only the xserver
<Yagisan> lots of fun for me then
<ogra> it ssh's into the server and runs a gnome-session there (or rather what Xsession it finds)
<Yagisan> dnet anyone :)
<MarkG24> ogra - I re-installed edubuntu -- dhcp3-server setup fine (using 1 nic) and now I'm getting ...error: not a valid image messages on the clients ...
<ogra> MarkG24, what did you do exactly ? 
<MarkG24> The chicken install ...
<ogra> hmm, that should work
<MarkG24> it says "Loading 192.168.0.253:/ltsp/pxelinux.0 ...error
<ogra> sounds a bit like you should run sudo ltsp-update-kernels , try that
<MarkG24> I'm booting the clients from rom-o-matic boot disks ... does that make a difference?
<ogra> hmm, i havent tested with that yet, but either your kernel image is broken or the tftpd isnt running...
<MarkG24> Hrm ... had trouble with tftpd in the past .... is that run through init.d or xinetd?
<ogra> inetd
<ogra> we dont use xinetd...
<MarkG24> erm . yeah - that's what I meant ... inetd :)
<ogra> but if you did the default install, i should have been installed fne
<ogra> fine
<MarkG24> it looks like it's fine ... I wonder if it's the 'pxe' image thing in conjunction with my boot floppies
<MarkG24> where are the boot images kept? -- I don't see /tftpboot
<rickfitz> not sure, but I thought etherboot needed another image (not pxe)
<ogra> they are in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/
<rickfitz> thinking back to using ltsp4 in the past
<MarkG24> rickfitz - I'll bet you're right ...
<ogra> probably... as i said, i havent tested etherboot here yet
<rickfitz> it was next on my list of things to check...
<MarkG24> I see -- let me make a quick change and see if it works ...
<MarkG24> um ... where' s the dhcpd.conf file ?
<ogra> /etc/ltsp
<MarkG24> ok :)
<ogra> :)
<MarkG24> is it possible to pass 2 filenames?  (in case a pxe client is present along with an etherboot one)?
<ogra> hmm, try it? i doubt it...
<rickfitz> iirc you need to set up groups by mac address, and specify the boot image for each 
<ogra> you can make up groups though...
<MarkG24> rickfitz - that's what I've done in the past - I like having them just grab their own address though ...
<ogra> but that doesnt give you two different filenames... 
<MarkG24> I don't have any pxe clients - so I commented out the pxe line and added the vmlinuz
<MarkG24> hrm -- same error with the other image file ... 
<ogra> did you run the update-kernels coomand ? 
<MarkG24> yeah 
<rickfitz> MarkG24: what's the error msg?
<MarkG24> one sec ...
<MarkG24> Loading 192.168.0.253:/ltsp/vmlinuz-2.6.12-8-386 ...error: not a valid image. Unable to load file
<ogra> oh, in any case you need to load the initrd
<ogra> that holds all the boot code
<MarkG24> heh... ok, that's a bit embarassing ... let me try again ...
<MarkG24> Loading 192.168.0.253:/ltsp/initrd.img-2.6.12-8-386 ...error: not a valid image. Unable to load file
<ogra> hmm... most likely you'll nee dboth, the vmlinuz and the initrd... but i have no real idea about how to define that for etherboot images
<ogra> vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img
<ogra> thats the boot commandline for pxe
<ogra> you somehow need to get the initrd option passed to the kernel on boot
<MarkG24> hmmm ...
<MarkG24> ogra - is there a -s switch with tfpt
<MarkG24> tftp (that is)
<ogra> yup
<ogra> its used by default (see inetd.conf)
<MarkG24> ok ... 
<Yagisan> ogra: how would one go about building new kernels for the think clients - make-kpkg ?
<ogra> i wouldnt suggest to do that, but make-kpkg and mkinitramfs will be needed
<Yagisan> ogra: yeah - but pax and grsec aren't in ubuntu's kernel
<ogra> ah, i forgot you are the security guy :)
<ogra> i think it was planned to hae a kernel image with selinux stuff in universe, but the guy who did much of the work behaves like an arse to the rest of the security team, i think it drowned in flames...
<Yagisan> ogra: believe me - If I get grsec to patch nice into ubuntus kernel I'll stick it in revu
<Yagisan> I met most of the sec team at UDU
<Yagisan> nice guys
<ogra> Yagisan, you didnt meet trulux
<Yagisan> I promissed pitti I would do a comparision between pax and exec sheild for him
<Yagisan> but haven't had the time
<ogra> who runs around in the channels and randomly calls people fachist assholes
<Yagisan> s/asshole/arsehole
<ogra> yes :)
<markg> Looks like I picked a good time to return ...
<ogra> heh
<Yagisan> have you seen the ubuntu kernels debian rules !!
<ogra> i was several times near to ban him in -motu ...
<ogra> nope, but i guess they are huge....
<ogra> i stopped compiling my own kernels since warty :)
<Yagisan> lets just say - I'm glad I'm not the maintainer
<ogra> yes, fabbione did a great job ...
<Yagisan> but it doesn't look easy to add new patches without a deep understanding
<Yagisan> and it needs more then 11G to build
<ogra> there should be a patches subdir
<ogra> use dpatch and add your patch to 00list-<version>
<Yagisan> (it broke my pbuilder - till I pointed it at a 600G RAID to build)
<ogra> phew
<Yagisan> fabbione said "only about 500M per kernel"
<Yagisan> pbuilder and my tmpfs disagree
<Yagisan> linux-restricted-modules is worse
<Yagisan> ogra: were you at UDU ?
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> I may have met you then
<Yagisan> I know I was unique
<Yagisan> I was the only person "without" a laptop
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img006.jpeg.html
<ogra> thats me on the terrace...
<ogra> i was one of the frequent smokers :)
<ogra> s/was/am/
<magnon> ogra: I'll join you out there :p
<Yagisan> I think I did me you then
<ogra> :)
<Yagisan> s/me/meet
<Yagisan> I think I found a pic of me
<Yagisan> I just get my other half to confirm it
<markg> ogra - it looks like maybe you can do an 'if' 'else' kind of thing for PXEClient and Etherboot ... 
<Yagisan> http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img042.jpeg
<ogra> oh, if you got a working setup, tell me...
<Yagisan> I think that may be me on the left
<ogra> on the sofa ? 
<Yagisan> blue jeans - green seat
<Yagisan> either that - or someone that looks a lot like me
<markg> ogra - almost ... just trying now ...
<ogra> from left to right i see daf, tseng, Keybuk, someone i dont know behind Keybuk, dilinger leaning at the wall, jdub, mako with backpack, Kinnison and mpool
<ogra> so i thought you might be the guy behind Keybuk on the sofa...
<ogra> but your description sounds like you look like tseng then :)
<Yagisan> Is it good that I look similar to tseng ??
<ogra> depends, ask tseng whom he owes money :)
<Yagisan> the way to check is if you have a higher res pic - I have a wedding ring that should appear
<Yagisan> tseng british ?
<ogra> nope, pennsylvania
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder
<ogra> there are more gallerys
<ogra> (at the bottom)
<Yagisan> this is kind of interesting - seeing people that look very similar
<markg> who's pennsylvania??
<markg> who's pennsylvanian??
<ogra> tsen
<ogra> g
<ogra> our mono maintainer
<markg> do you happen to know which part (me --> Hanover, PA)
<ogra> nope, but ask him in -devel or -motu, he's around every day there
<ogra> heh, i come from Hanover too :) 
<markg> too cool ... I'll try to remember to do that ... I suppose you're the original Hanover ...
<markg> We have a plaque outside of town that says, "Named after Hanover, Germany" --
<ogra> but a little bit more eastern *G*, hannover-> hermany
<ogra> cool
<markg> interesting
<ogra> germany indeed
<ogra> my typing sucks today
<Yagisan> heh - it would be easier to find me if I didn't wear an Ubuntu T-Shirt
<ogra> lol
<ogra> try here: http://gallery.linuxguru.net/UbuntuDownUnder-4-2005/img_0338?full=1
<markg> ogra - what's that ltsp-update kernel command?
<markg> nevermind - found it
<ogra> /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-kernels
<Yagisan> my wife thinks this may be me http://gallery.linuxguru.net/UbuntuDownUnder-4-2005/img_0311
<Yagisan> she says I'm a lazy bastard that doesn't shave
<ogra> hmm, thats bradb
<ogra> (if you meant the guy with the cap)
<Yagisan> cool - yet another person I look similar too
<Yagisan> this is actually kinda scary
<markg> Yagisan - I prefer to look at not shaving as a sign of thoughtfulness
<markg> ogra - got it! (mostly)  I had to install the mknbi - then it created a etherboot image
<markg> now it boots - get's to BusyBox - but no X ... hmmm ...
<ogra> no errors ? 
<ogra> it should tell you whats wrong...
<markg> it says ...  /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
<Yagisan> markg: unfortunately my wife disagrees :(  (and oddly enough so do customers)
<ogra> would you mind to write on the wiki what you did to get etherboot running ? 
<markg> Yagisan -- let's start a support group - I hate shaving ...
<ogra> i like it .... (once every week if it gets itchy)
<markg> ogra - I suppose I could do that ... (yes .. I do hate the itch too ...)
<markg> ok - here's what I didn't see --  mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed: No such file or directory
<ogra> markg, that'd be awesome ... i'll try to get it automated then in the installer...
<Yagisan> I don't actually itch, but I hate shaving
<ogra> hmm, something is wrong with the initramfs
<Yagisan> I wonder if that "laser hair removal" I see on TV would actually work ...
<markg> ogra -- the only thing it depends on is mknbi which I had to enable universe for ...
<markg> Yagisan -- I can see it now, "What are all those scars on your face? -- Oh, they're from my Laser Shaver (TM)"
<ogra> yup, i know... i tried to get t in main, but it was totally broken back then
<markg> I see ... so my initramfs isn't cooperating -- wonder if it's a result of using an etherboot image rather than pxe ...
<ogra> it shouldnt... they both should use the same kernel and initramfs
<markg> hmmm ... let me double check something ...
<ogra> no matter how they boot
<ogra> and you obviously have a working kernel ... the remounting of /dev happens if the nfs root was mounted
<markg> should there be an address for the roosever:
<markg> mine is 0.0.0.0 rootpath:
<ogra> hmm, it should point to the nfs server indeed
<ogra> but then you would see an nfs error
<Yagisan> I'm off to bed now (it's almost 3am here). I'll test out the systems tomorrow
<ogra> yup, night... sleep well :)
<rickfitz> Just installed daily 20050921. Puzzled by updates. Update notifier shows 36 packages to update. Synaptic says OOo2-1.9.125 is installed, offers upgrade to 1.9.129. But 1.9.129 was automatically downloaded during install, and is definately installed. So apt seems to be out of sync with the installation. (This is straight after a default install). Anyone?
<ogra> i guess they are in the archive cache but not installed...
<ogra> also note that there may be a higher ubuntuX revision available, there was a lot movement with ooo these days (today too)
<rickfitz> Nope. If I run OOo Help-About, it says it's 1.9.129
<ogra> yes, but that isnt the package version nummmber
<ogra> 1.9.129-0.1ubuntu1-0ubuntu1
<ogra> so you ight have a 1.9.129-0.1ubuntu1-0ubuntu0 installed for example... 
<rickfitz> Oh. Now I'm really confused!
<ogra> and ooo currently gets updates nearly daily
<rickfitz> I was just surpised to have 36 updates on the current daily build.
<ogra> the version is not necessarily the revision ....
<ogra> the daily build is done around 2am UTC so its nearly a day old now :)
<ogra> if you monitor the breezy-changes mailing list, you can see the updates hot the build server...
<ogra> hit even
<rickfitz> OK Thanks
<rickfitz> ogra: More detailed check - some of OOo is at 125, other bits at 129. Maybe the build came halfway through an update? No problem, I'll do the updates. Thanks again.
<ogra> yup :)
#edubuntu 2005-09-27
<magnon> evening
<shaga> good morning Jane
<shaga> time for me to get some coffee, I'm draining here at work already
<JaneW> hi
* JaneW is sipping on first cup of the day too...
<jsgotangco> hey JaneW 
<jsgotangco> i already had 4 cups
<JaneW> jsgotangco: heh, but you have a 9 hr lead on me ;)
<jsgotangco> im actually tired
<shaga> usually I would drink already 1-1.5liters of coffee already but I slept for too long and didn't have time for it.. :/
<shaga> gmail notifier doesn't recognize my userid/passwd. and I'm more than definetly sure I've typed them correctly. I tried even with @gmail.com in the end of the userid..
<jsgotangco> ogra i see khelpcenter now!
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> are you in agreement that edubuntu workstation looks more solid than ubuntu
<ogra> lol, 
<ogra> its the same...
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> maybe i just like the look more
<jsgotangco> :)
<ogra> thanks :)
<shaga> jsgotangco: I couldn't agree more ;)
<ogra> WOW
<ogra> i got a mail from the club of rome thinktank leader
<jsgotangco> football club?
<ogra> they want to distribute a edubuntu DVD with their documents...
<jsgotangco> WOW
<ogra> www.clubofrome.org
<jsgotangco> ogra, i got to talk with the faculty of http://www.dls-csb.edu.ph/ and said they will use edubuntu for their desktops and one of their labs
<jsgotangco> after they saw my laptop
<ogra> wow
<jsgotangco> they even want me to train them
<ogra> cool
<jsgotangco> ogra, congrats :)
* jsgotangco still wants edubuntu girl as default background though
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> ogra, it just fits the gartoon icon set
<ogra> if i can make space, i'll add some additional wallpapers
<ogra> but i you look at the ppc build you will se that it exploded tonight
<ogra> 704MB :/
<jsgotangco> oh my
<jsgotangco> what's the difference that its bigger?
<ogra> so i have either to drop something common or just to ignore it and tell ppc users to use the DVD
<shaga> I have 'make' in my hilight-list coz it's my nickname(often used for markus 'english version would be 'marcus' I think).. do you have any idea how many times it hilights me during a one day? :D
<shaga> time for a cig, brb I quess
<Yagisan> or use 750MB cds
<JaneW> ogra: what do you think of that rome e-mail? I think it sounds great...
<ogra> nah, normally we only use 650MB i already extended it to the max 
<ogra> JaneW, if it wouldnt be this early, i'd slup champaign now :)
<shaga> :)
<jsgotangco> congrats to you both
<shaga> ditto
<ogra> especially now that we really *have* a DVD since yesterday....
<JaneW> ogra: do we need to ok it with someone (ndz, silbs etc) or can we give the go ahead?
<ogra> i'd call that perfect timing :)
<ogra> i want to make sure the DVD is ok... they shouldnt use yesterdays image, there were some changes after it was build tonight... so not before the saturday build ...
<JaneW> ogra: when do you think they want to press their DVDs? Not before mid Oct prolly, in which case they can use the final release...
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but i guess they will want to test it before...
<JaneW> are you going to respond? or should I?
<ogra> do it :) youre the manager ;)
<ogra> probably put mdz or silbs on CC
<JaneW> ogra: yes that's what I was thinking..
<JaneW> will do
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> there's a Q about edu LiveCD on u-d (not sure which part of DON'T reply here there guy didn't understand)
<ogra> heh, i have it open here :)
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:JaneW] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | First official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Sept 28 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | Preview Release: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<jsgotangco> sorry if i wasn't that much help lately guys, i have been busy looking for a new job and with the laptop testing and all...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: how's the job hunt going?
<ogra> jsgotangco, not much help ???
<ogra> jsgotangco, you are our curretn promotion manager if i see that right :)
<jsgotangco> JaneW, pretty flat at the moment, but linuxworld opened up somepossible opportunties
<ogra> (i'd say running around and getting more users is *very* helpful)
<jsgotangco> its been fun talking really
<JaneW> jsgotangco: hopefully the exposure will open some doors for you
<jsgotangco> thanks it'll come for sure :)
<markg24> ogra - ok ... from yesterday ... right before leaving for my meeting the machines started to boot ... so it looks as though everything is working properly...
<markg24> Now - where do I add info to the wiki?
<ogra> make a new page... EdubuntuEtherboot for example...
<markg24> ok -- do you ever sleep?
<ogra> i'll have to check if we should ut mknbi on the Cd
<ogra> yes, after release ;)
<markg24> lol -- alright -- mknbi is pretty (well, totally) necessary ... so I would think it should at least be on the cd ...
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> ogra: are you going to be like a bear and hibernate for a few weeks to catch up? 
<ogra> heh, yes :)
<jsgotangco> good its cold in montreal
<shaga> ogra: *laughing at your sleeping schedule*
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> the less i sleep now, the more i can sleep during the dapper release cycle :)
<shaga> haha
<markg24> dapper sleep ... sounds so, well, dapper ...
<shaga> have you ever thought about ubermans sleeping schedule?
<shaga> http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=892542
<shaga> I've tried it twice, it gives you a hell of a lot more time ;)
<ogra> heh, i'll try ;)
<shaga> it's quite hardcore for starters tho
<markg24> why does evolution always puke when initially setting up an imap account?
<markg24> I'd really like to see evolution catch up to Kontact in printing/managing calendars ... that would be nice ...
<jsgotangco> ogra, what's with edubuntu-desktop telling me that it is being kept back?
<ogra> hmm
<shaga> for me as well
<shaga> I just used apt-get install edubuntu-desktop and restart gdm ;)
<shaga> it removes gnome-screensaver and install x-screensaver instead as well
<ogra> looks like its caused by openoffice
<jsgotangco> ogra, yup
<ogra> thats right, we switched back to xscreensaver
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> and i was beginning to like gnome-screensaver
<shaga> it's way cooler tho ;)
<shaga> imho
<ogra> not really... 
<ogra> but g-s-s isnt ready yet
<ogra> once its ready it will be a lot better than x-s-s
<ogra> (it already is in many areas)
<shaga> I like how the screen transforms into screensaver and fades out with x-screensaver ;) or then I just haven't noticed it's before if it was in gnome-screensaver as well
<ogra> no, thats missing in g-s-s
<shaga> okay, good to hear I'm not just tripping :)
<ogra> but g-s-s is integrated with gconf, uses dbus to communicate and has a way claener UI (even if its lackinf functionality)
<ogra> once the missing bits are added x-s-s will look antique
<shaga> sounds reasonable 
<markg24> you need to be at least 25 to be antique ... I am antique :)
<jsgotangco> 25?
<jsgotangco> jeezz that makes me jurassic
<markg24> is that what the 'j' stands for (jsgotangco)?
<jsgotangco> jerome
<jsgotangco> that's my name
<jsgotangco> s is my middle name
<shaga> I'm just 22
<markg24> oh ... really thought it was 'jurassic' there for a moment .. sorry jerome :)
* ogra is a mummy if 25 is already antique
<jsgotangco> ogra, aye
<jsgotangco> that makes us vintage
<ogra> but x-s-s *is* 25 :)
<markg24> seriously now -- ogra -- how old are you -- you don't look that old in your photo ...
<ogra> 35 :)
<markg24> oh ... ok ... that's old (hehe ... ) I'm 29 ...
<ogra> i'm just shaved good on that pic :)
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> 29 is still young
<shaga> am I the youngest one speaking around here? :p
<shaga> I don't feel myself too old anymore hehe
<jsgotangco> heh
<markg24> I work with Youth (primarily) -- and I'm telling them I'm "30 minus 1" -- that way 30 doesn't catch me off guard
<shaga> :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> oh well
<jsgotangco> i gotta take a rest first guys
<jsgotangco> maybe a nap
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> or dinner even
<jsgotangco> see you all later
<shaga> have fun
<ogra> ciao
<markg24> ogra -- I notice that schooltool starts on start-up ... what exactly is starting?
<jsgotangco> hrmm
<jsgotangco> wait a minute
<jsgotangco> installing edubuntu-destkop removes g-s-s?
<ogra> replaces g-s-s with x-s-s
<markg24> jsgotangco ... I think in your old age you missed that bit just a few moments ago ... now, grab your cane and shake it at me angrily!!
<jsgotangco> hrmm apt isn't too smart then
<shaga> apt-cache is so stupid at least :p
* jsgotangco waves his rail gun instead
<markg24> dang ... a rail gun ... /me ducks
<jsgotangco> well good night
<markg24> well ... I need to go as well -- I'm raising a portion of a drop-ceiling at our Youth Center ... I need saw blades :)
<ogra> have fun :)
<Yagisan> G'day ogra - is it possible to specify that services are on different machines eg tftp on box A, nfs on box B etc ?
<ogra> Yagisan, sure, but you need to tweak the configs
<Yagisan> ok. I don't like "leaving all my eggs in one basket"
<Yagisan> I'll do a test run in vmware before rebuilding my network
<ogra> :) 
<Yagisan> heh - I'm one of the 15 seeds for the i386 torrent
<ogra> :-D
<Yagisan> I'm glad my uploads aren't counted like my downloads are
* Yagisan wishes he had unmetered internet
<shaga> I was for the last evening(and for night as well, I think)..
<JaneW> what countries are represented here today?
<Gand_> Hi from Italy
* Yagisan is in Australia
<Gand_> I'm installing edubuntu on a PPC G4 933 Mhz
<Gand_> I get an error installing LTSP !
<ogra> Gand_, did you follow the instructions ? (topic)
<JaneW> ta
<ogra> germany btw...
<ogra> and pere is in norway (donno if he represents here currently :) )
<Gand_> Opps I'm reading instructions now, be back in a minute :)
<ogra> :)
<pere> ogra: only randomly, and when adressed directly, I believe. :)
<ogra> :)
<pere> my xchat tab turns blue when someone mentino my name, and it triggers my curiosity. :)
<ogra> pere, how's the release going at your side ? 
<pere> slowly forward. :)
<shaga> btw, from finland
<ogra> great :)
<Gand_> no problem with IP adress (I've a static one), and also my locale is installed and I've just finsih upgrade now,
<Gand_>  but during install, LTSP chroot failed
<ogra> Gand_, you have choosen the provided IP ? else it wont work due to the described bug
<ogra> (will be fixed before mid next week)
<Gand_> no ip provided during installations, probably I mistake because windows said to leave blank the interface if DHCP was active, so I did'n insert eth0 and only I pressed enter. 
<ogra> thats the first screen the CD shows you after language selection...
<ogra> from when was the iso you used ? 
<Gand_> one minute i search it
<Yagisan> ogra: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/edubuntu-vmware.png :(
<Gand_> http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/
<Gand_> no problem, I can reinstall it
<Gand_> I'm tryng some test
<ogra> Gand_, make sure the data in /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf matches your network settings for the thin clinet network
<Gand_> this machine will be used as e-learning server with apachephpMysql+CMS or with ZopePlone
<JaneW> ogra: just sent the e-mail askig for edubuntu CDs *hold thumbs*
<Gand_> I know how to set up this kind of server with OSX, I'd like to learn hot to do the same with ed/ubuntu
* ogra crosses fingers
<ogra> Yagisan, sounds like a bug to report to bugzilla...
<ogra> :/
* JaneW orders flowers for MIL's birthday...
<ogra> MIL ??
<Gand_> thank a lot now I've to go, I'll be back as soon as I can, I've set up vnc so I can work remotely from my home, see you , bye
<JaneW> ogra: Mother In Law
<ogra> oh
<JaneW> ogra: cool our preview announcement in French http://www.scideralle.org/article.php3?id_article=152
* ogra thought about something military
* JaneW is quoted in the news :) http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3547611
<ogra> cool
<Yagisan> ogra: This looks just like the error I had in hoary - that I already reported for RAID. hmm
<ogra> JaneW, if we participate in SoC again, i propose to start a month earlier to have more time to select the students
<ogra> Yagisan, oh, youre uing raid in vmware ? 
<JaneW> ogra: yeah it would be great, but we had no control over the timing this time...
<ogra> just propose it to google ;)
<JaneW> ogra: I do think it will be better co-ordinated next time with a greater chance of success
<ogra> i hope so
<JaneW> ideally we'd like it synchoronised with our release cycle
<JaneW> it would be awesome ;)
<ogra> :)
<Yagisan> ogra: no - it's the same error as raid. It looks like the devices aren't made it time
<Yagisan> ogra: me http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/Yagisan.jpg
<ogra> lol
<ogra> your small one really looks like you ;)
<ogra> and i think i remember you now :)
<Yagisan> I shaved and had a haircut for that pic
<Yagisan> thank you
<Yagisan> I think she looks like her mother
* Yagisan tries another edubuntu install (without lvm)
<JaneW> lol - CUTE!
<JaneW> me 's babies... http://www.flickr.com/photos/13916877@N00/
* JaneW must go, presentation at TSF...
<Yagisan> cool boys
<Yagisan> I think my next one is a boy
<Yagisan> find out in November
<JaneW> Yagisan: good luck
<Yagisan> thanks
<Yagisan> 2 under 2 =-O
<JaneW> hehe
<JaneW> mine were 22 mnths apart - it's doable...
<JaneW> a friend had 3 under 3!
<JaneW> that's scary!
<Yagisan> my support is 6500 kilometres away :'(
<Yagisan> just me and poor wife
<Yagisan> if I had 3 under 3 - my wife would do a bobit job on me - ouch
<Yagisan> ogra: still here ?
<ogra> Yagisan, sure
<Yagisan> ogra: same error - no lvm this time
<Yagisan> :(
<Yagisan> got a newer iso ??
<ogra> Yagisan, hmm, all i can say is report it to bugzilla and probably ping jbailey in -devel
<ogra> the access to the drive will be dependent on initramfs, thats jbailey territory
<shaga> I was just going to say that he's always around.. never sleeps nor leaves his computer alone :p
<shaga> but by the second time I checked this channel, it was already too late ;)
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> ogra: ping
<ogra> JaneW, just answering the mail
<JaneW> mutter mutter
<shaga> quite edited for reason too long to tell, but quess whos this fellow http://sha.rikos.org/sh.jpg
<JaneW> ogra: feeling quite p'ed off - why can;t we make progess on this issue?
<JaneW> shage: very delic indeed ;)
<ogra> JaneW, dont ask *me* 
<shaga> :p 
<JaneW> ogra: sigh
<ogra> JaneW, especially since we talk about less than $2000 here i guess
<ogra> i'm already thinking about to sell some HW and let them press myself...
<ogra> *SIGH*
<JaneW> the point I think is that most ubuntu user *could* d/l the damn thing themselves
<JaneW> most potential edubuntu users couldn't...
<JaneW> but I'll just do what I am told
<ogra> ok, sent
<Yagisan> good night all
<markg> ogra - where's the wiki page with instructions for squidguard ... I bookmarked it on my other computer ... sigh ...
<ogra> you mean the one from the ubuntu wiki ? 
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContentFiltering
<markg> yep - thanks so much 
<markg> Oh - one thing -- on my setup in the Youth Center (8 machines ... 1 server) -- The first machine turned on always fails to load -- it get's to the nfs-sever part and times-out ... every machine started after that works ... just thought I'd mention it.
<ogra> thats bug 12942
<ogra> feel free to follow up there :(
<ogra> err 
<ogra> :)
<markg> I see ... bi-polar kind of thing, eh ...
<markg> hrmph -- is squid picky too -- usually I can just apt-get install but it's not wanting to start ...
<rickfitz> ogra: Hi - got a possible screensaver problem on the server.
<ogra> with which screensaver ? xscreensaver or gnome-screensaver ? note we switched back to xscreensaver yesterday
<shaga> are you sure it was yesterday? :)
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i did it...
<ogra> yesterday night... just in time for todays build
<shaga> okay, I was just in too late then to notice it immediatly :)
<ogra> (night == german TZ)
<shaga> is that how much earlier than gmt+2?
<shaga> do you happen to know
<ogra> i think its the same
<rickfitz> ogra: I did the update, but haven't re-booted or re-logged-in. Maybe that's it. I have a blank screen with mouse pointer (arrow), but no response.
<ogra> btw, the screensaver change went alongside with khelpcenter being added ;)
<ogra> ah, yes, a new login is required to change the screensaver
<rickfitz> Unless you want me to investigate, I'll just re-boot.
<shaga> the thing I love mostly with x/xorg is ctrl+alt+backspace <3 ;)
<ogra> you can login on console and kill the gnome-screensaver process with udo
<ogra> sudo even
<shaga> it can be done via graphical gui as well I assume?
<shaga> system monitor utility
<ogra> how, if the screen is locked ?
<rickfitz> I just killed it with ctrl+alt+backspace, then startx and all's well. I'll reboot anyway.
<ogra> ok
<rickfitz> Couple of other things. Server keyboard is british, clients are US. Shouldn't clients follow server set-up? 
<ogra> yes, i havent had my big ltsp fixing session yet, i'll fix the loginmanager and the dhcp.conf generation next week
<shaga> ogra: oh, I bugged, my mistake :p
<ogra> currently it just uses PATH and LANG from the cilent... where both is set to us or C
<shaga> I usually start x mostly via sudo gdm
<ogra> and PATH is still missing /usr/games ...
<rickfitz> also noticed the client shows the wrong time and date. And always seems to fail the ntp sync during start-up, which I guess may be connected.
<ogra> nope, the time and datedtring in the login manager is hardcoded, its a two line fix that didnt get included yet
<ogra> s/datedtring/date string/
<rickfitz> Ah :-)
<ogra> it should show some date in july
<rickfitz> it does!
<rickfitz> I have a few more general usability observations, but I'll send that stuf to the list.
<ogra> i have a preety nice themeable login manager that didnt make the freeze... in case youre interested: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/
<shaga> gotta try it soon
<shaga> :)
<rickfitz> Yeah. Saw your conversation with Flint yesterday.
<shaga> I am interested definetly
<shaga> and I saw it as well I think
<ogra> :)
<shaga> flint is quite freaky fellow :)
<shaga> but good one
<rickfitz> Had a quick look, but couldn't get apt to play in the chroot environment.
<ogra> he has had a strong discussion with mdz to get it included... but mdz didnt allow it 
<rickfitz> didn't have time to do more
<ogra> that migh be because it was installed from cd... you might need to copy the sources.list from the main environment to the chroot
<rickfitz> any more thoughts on disk space?
<ogra> CD space ? 
<rickfitz> ye
<ogra> or HD space for installations ? 
<rickfitz> cd
<ogra> we have a DVD now ;)
<ogra> i will put all languages possible on the remaining space for the arches that have space left...
<rickfitz> Oh. Thought people didn't like that for third-world countries without readers
<ogra> i.e. x86 and amd64
<ogra> yes, thats why i will have a sensible selection of languages on the cd... 
<ogra> if you want *all* 90 langs you need to take the DVD
<rickfitz> gotta go. back later
<ogra> ciao
<shaga> so you moved into dvd?!! really?
<shaga> or at least are adding as an option
<shaga> and amd64/x86 at the same disk
<shaga> if that is so and I got it right, it's more than perfect ;)
<ogra> nope, its stil a DVD for every arch
<ogra> but it includes all of main
<shaga> oh, okay
<shaga> but that would be nice to choose via cdboot
<shaga> amd64 or x86 for example
<shaga> dvd has space enough for that I assume? ;)
<jamey3> does anyone know the exact release date?
<ogra> oct 13
<jamey3> ogra, thanks
<jamey3> is everyone really busy readying the release then? :D
<ogra> yup
<rickfitz> Now have the themeable login manager installed. Much nicer :-)
<rickfitz> and easier to use too. (Doesn't lose focus when you move the mouse.)
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but sadly a dapper feature, wont make breezy :/
<mpt> themeable login manager?
<ogra> mpt, yes...
<ogra> a gdm fake :)
<shaga> ogra: are you definetly sure it won't make it?
<ogra> yes
<shaga> okay
<ogra> there was a loud argument about it...
<shaga> I can see it already :)
<ogra> mpt, i'll show it to you at UBZ (if i find a PC for a ltsp install)
<rickfitz> Feature freezes are a necessary evil. You have to stop somewhere.
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but it was done only some days after freeze... thats what bothers some people...
<rickfitz> but it's open source. We're free to adapt it as we please.
<ogra> sure, its just not in the install... you need amnual intervention
<ogra> manual even
<rickfitz> I like amnual!
<ogra> :)
<mpt> ogra: So gdm-fake : gdm :: gnome-screensaver : xscreensaver?
<ogra> nah, i wont replace gdm...
<ogra> even its very tempting... my ldm has only 200 lines of python code, it fully themeable and very light
<ogra> s/it/is
<mpt> 200 lines of python code
<ogra> around 200
<ogra> and a bit glade
<mpt> The iTunes replacement my flatmate implemented yesterday was 200 lines of python code
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> <3 python <3
<rickfitz> ogra: just looking at a screensaver running on a thin client. Is that back again with xscreensaver. (I thought it was fixed in gnome-screensaver)
<ogra> but only after a wile, right...? i still have to find the right place in the code to disable it...
<ogra> dont worry, its on my TODO
<rickfitz> sure. just thought I'd mention it in case it was a regression.
<shaga> http://www.bash.org/?86218
<shaga> :D
<ogra> i just didnt fix it when i was told to rather care for gnome-screensaver...
<ogra> which turned out to generate tons of complaintment mails in my inbox :/
#edubuntu 2005-09-28
<shaga> good morning all
<shaga> why does gnome-terminal sometimes messes the whole screen if you are using another gnome-terminal for example dist-upgrade or by pasting a url into terminal.. only thing what goes messed is ssh connection to this shell and using irssi from here.. I must leaven the 'irssi screen' and come back to get graphics back to work
<shaga> is this known bug or do anyone even know what I'm talking about? :)
<shaga> The following packages have been kept back:
<shaga>   linux-restricted-modules-386
<shaga> like yesterday(or the day before that) edubuntu-desktop was being kept back
<shaga> of course I'm forcing ;)
<shaga> and why always 386-versions of the kernels, why not 686 if I'm using 686 already.. does it matter really? I'm kind of making a log here so don't remember what to check after rebooting
<shaga> don't forget I meant to say
<JaneW> hello
<shaga> hello
<shaga> I've noticed some bugs today
<jsgotangco> shaga, it'll be fixed today
<JaneW> serious ones?
<jsgotangco> (linux-restricted-modules)
<JaneW> erk
<shaga> "system tray" shows the correct day and date, but once I'm at adjusting it, it shows the wrong day but the correct date
<JaneW> fabbione is working on that
<JaneW> shage: right year?
<jsgotangco> should be recompiled so its taking time
<shaga> it tells right year yes
<jsgotangco> shaga, works fine with me
<shaga> and date-command gives proper date and year, day the week
<shaga> but day of the week is just saturday while configuring it via gui
<shaga> and it doesn't remember europe/finland(or was it helsinki), after I reboot.. it's europe/marienham
<JaneW> can I remove COlin Applegate from the contact list on the wiki? I haven;t heard from or of him since the summit in early July....
<jsgotangco> what the heck happened to that kid
<shaga> and is a 'messed up texts' while ssh-connected to shell and running irssi through screen?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: shrug, maybe he was too inebriated to leave London and is still on the streets there....?
<shaga> it happens if you copy&paste url or use apt-get in a different gnome-terminal. this has been around since hoary for me. for each computer I use and it doesn't matter if use transparance or not. I just have to deattach/+attach to get graphics back okay
<JaneW> jsgotangco: so I am removing him...
<jsgotangco> i dont see that word everyday hehe
<shaga> JaneW: do you need screenshot about messed up grahics or bugged 'time and date settings'? time for a coffee break for me anyway, brb
<JaneW> :)
<jsgotangco> "inebriated"
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> you dont say that word in real life
<jsgotangco> just in text...
<JaneW> ok next Q, can someone give me the final and official answer re: "With the Edubuntu 5.10 release, I've noticed that there is no DHCP server on install, so that the user had to enter an IP address, which most people on a DHCP server have *no* idea how to do.  Is the final release of Edubuntu 5.10 going to fix this? " so I can respond to the many enquiries...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I use the word fairly often...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: but maybe I am just weird
<jsgotangco> no dhcp server...
<jsgotangco> there is one...
<jsgotangco> the workstation option doesn't need a dhcp server...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I think it's for the server install
<JaneW> hmmm, did I miss anything...?
<Burgundavia> nope
<shaga> you were away for just a one minute :D
<JaneW> good
<Burgundavia> JaneW, why -Non-commericial licenses are bad --> http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/9/11/16331/0655
<magnon> Burgundavia: anything else new? :P
<Burgundavia> magnon, not really
<shaga> can you name any goods nes-emulators for ubuntu/edubuntu/debian?
<shaga> I need to make animated gif about megaman(he is without a helmet in megaman2, and his hair is waving)
<jsgotangco> zsnes??
<shaga> oh, trying it now, thanks..
<shaga> dist-upgrade didn't work very well for starters now
<shaga> Unpacking replacement xinit ...
<shaga> Errors were encountered while processing:
<shaga>  /var/cache/apt/archives/x-common_1.07_all.deb
<shaga> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<shaga> of course apt-get -f install helps but just wanted to tell
<shaga> didn't help even
<ogra> shaga, the dist-upgrade error was fixed 10min ago ;)
<ogra> these errors are all inherited from ubuntu, i cant do much about it
<shaga> okay :)
<shaga> # dpkg -i --force-all /var/cache/apt/archives/x-common_1.07_all.deb
<shaga> ;)
<ogra> uuh... --force-all is evil....
<ogra> rather take --force-overwrite thats a bit less evil
<shaga> I'll try it next time ;)
<shaga> jsgotangco: just downloaded zsnes and then thought about, it's snes-emulator as the name says. I'm looking for 8bit nes emulator..
<shaga> but I think it's not hard to find via google
<shaga> # apt-cache search fceu
<shaga> fceu - FCE Ultra - a nintendo (8-bit) emulator
<shaga> nice one ;)
<shaga> ctrl+c while running it gives this text into console "How DARE you interrupt me!" :)
<ogra> could someone check if http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu is accessible? 
<shaga> it is, at least via browser
<ogra> ok
<ogra> thanks...
<shaga> http://sha.rikos.org/megaman/megaman.gif 
<shaga> now it's ready :)
<shaga> gimp rocks
<JaneW> lol, that's funny
<magnon> brown it, and it'd fit with the usplash :>
<shaga> :)
<shaga> would be so easy to brown it
<magnon> I get the megaman type gaming feeling of the usplash
<shaga> :p
<shaga> would it be easy to add it into usplash by myself?
<jsgotangco> gotta goo
<jsgotangco> get some beer
<jsgotangco> hehe
<shaga> I'm getting as well today
<shaga> my tradition has been always to drink beer while installing linux distros.. it's too boring otherwise to wait and configure. with ubuntu it's not anymore required because it goes so smooth and sounds work immediatly etc.. :)
<Yagisan> G'day ogra. Worked out what the issue was with installing edubuntu in vmware
<ogra> YAY
<Yagisan> known ubuntu kernel issue with "buslogic" scsi module
<Yagisan> reinstalling now with ide only
<ogra> we had another post at edubuntu-devel today where someone couldnt install in vmware, did you see it ? 
<Yagisan> nice pretty boot up.
<Yagisan> no
<shaga> I saw it
<Yagisan> I'm not on edubuntu-devel
<Yagisan> solution would most likely be - no scis disks when creating virtual machine
<Yagisan> s/scis/scsi
<JaneW> ok next Q, can someone give me the final and official answer re: "With the Edubuntu 5.10 release, I've noticed that there is no DHCP server on install, so that the user had to enter an IP address, which most people on a DHCP server have *no* idea how to do.  Is the final release of Edubuntu 5.10 going to fix this? " so I can respond to the many enquiries...
<ogra> for a ltsp server a fixed ip is needed
<ogra> so you need to supply one at installation
<ogra> and a dhcp server is installed by default, else the ltsp server wouldnt work at all
<ogra> JaneW, if you tell such people to file bugs in bugzilla, i can answer them there :)
<shaga> perhaps adding an another installation-option to cdboot-menu?
<magnon> ogra: if you don't configure an external one to do, but you wouldn't know how to if you just had a "router" or something :P
<ogra> there is a workstation option
<shaga> that's what I used
<ogra> magnon, if you have an external dhcp server this should be bound to a second interface...  the ltsp setup should be on a separate network ...
<ogra> magnon, if you want to mix up with the existing dhcp server you will know what a IP address is and how to tweak the different servers
<magnon> exactly
<ogra> our target is the person who doesnt know that and installs a standalone ltsp environment... additionally its a base for your customization...
<ogra> ... if you know about these tweaks
<magnon> I just said if :)
<ogra> :)
* magnon should call ibm
<Yagisan> hmm, ebubuntu doesn't like vmware virtual pcnet32 network interface
<Yagisan> loads module, but doesn't map eth0
* Yagisan changes interfaces to not do that again
<Yagisan>  /etc/network/interfaces is missing eth0 from the auto line
<Yagisan> well edubuntu is installed in vmware. time to update and see what I can break
<ogra> *g*
<Yagisan> *cough* *cough* 306MB download *mumble*
<ogra> did you install from the preview iso ? 
<ogra> there were kernel and xorg updates ;)
<magnon> testing breezy and related stuff efficiently requires a fat pipe
<ogra> yup
<magnon> not very fair, but that's life :P
<magnon> poor satphone devs
* Yagisan is in Australia. Remember the crap Internet at UDU - I have to suffer with that :(
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> the most annoying thing is *we all know that it is artificially limited by telstra* :(
<shaga> do you know is there way to disable this 'Irssi: Doing this is not a good idea. Add -YES option to command if you really mean it'?
* ogra uses xchat
<Yagisan> me uses gaim (I got sick of different clients for different networks)
<Zaheer> hi all
<highvoltage> changed my mind when I saw Zaheer here :)
<highvoltage> He Zaheer.
<ogra> heh
<Zaheer> hi :D
<Zaheer> i've got a problem with edubuntu and i was wondering if this is the right place to ask?
<ogra> yup
<Zaheer> for help that is ;)
<Yagisan> fire away
<highvoltage> Zaheer: yes, fire away!
<Zaheer> i've tried to install it using vmware workstation 5 but it keeps crashing on the first reboot after its installed.
<Yagisan> heh
<Yagisan> speak of the devil
<Yagisan> don't install on scsi disks
<Zaheer> why is it bad?
<Yagisan> use ide
<Zaheer> oooohhhh :D
<ogra> Zaheer, Yagisan had similar probs :)
<Yagisan> known kernel problem
* Yagisan looks at my vmware 5 install
<ogra> Yagisan, is there a bug about it ? 
<highvoltage> Zaheer: How's married life, btw ;)
<Yagisan> jbailey said it was known and being fixed
<Zaheer> hey how do you know that!
<ogra> oh, ok
<highvoltage> Zaheer: I know who you are.
<Zaheer> i figured
<Zaheer> shouldv'e used my alias rather... ;)
<highvoltage> okay, really got to go now. Zaheer, ogra and Yagisan, have a good weekend!
<Yagisan> married ? how long ?
<ogra> ciao highvoltage 
<highvoltage> Yagisan: i think it's 3 weeks or so now, righ Zaheer ?
<Zaheer> 3 weeks..yes
<highvoltage> ciao ogra 
<Zaheer> who are you!
<Yagisan> ses ya highvoltage
<Yagisan> congrats Zaheer
<Zaheer> thanks :D
<Yagisan> I've been married about 3 years now
<ogra> Zaheer, he's the secret guy in the background *g*
<ogra> Zaheer, highvoltage == Jonathan Carter ;)
<Zaheer> oh ok
<Zaheer> he's with slug !
<ogra> and with edubuntu...
<ogra> adn tuxlabs... and whatever else :)
<Zaheer> i see so... im trying to get involved with linux as much as i can, im pretty new to everything but i keen on learning.
<Zaheer> so i thort i'd give edubuntu a try and maybe lend a hand.
<Yagisan> slug ? Sydney Linux Users Group ??
<Zaheer> no, the schools linux user group in south africa.
<Zaheer> tux lubs.
<Yagisan> heh - blame google
<Zaheer> LOL
* Yagisan will be back soon - bub smells ripe
<Zaheer> going out for abit be back soon, still wanna try the ide install.
<Taloas> Good Morning
<Taloas> Ok, Edubuntu, is it a network driven environent based on something like group policies?
<ogra> Taloas, its linux :) its a multiuser environment ;) ubuntu offers some group policies and profile which we inherit 
<Taloas> i've got  a TINY bit of linux hands on, a gentoo box, some live cd's and a small file box (nasty old xandros) 
<Zaheer> question how do i change the disk type in vmware from scsi to ide?
<ogra> Zaheer, thats something Yagisan can answe i bet ... 
<Zaheer> hes gone tho...
<ogra> he'll be back soo...
<ogra> soon
<Zaheer> its ok i found out how to change it :)
* Yagisan is back
<ogra> ah, great :)
<Zaheer> i had to choose a custom install.
<Yagisan> yep
<Zaheer> i was confused for a moment :D
* Yagisan is traumatised - how can such a little girl produce so much
<Yagisan> next issue you will have
<Yagisan> is that on boot it won't activate eth0
<ogra> Yagisan, it always depends how much you put it :) 
<ogra> s/put it/put in
<Yagisan>  /etc/network/interfaces is missing eth0 from the auto line
<Yagisan> just add it with sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces then restart netwrking and it'll be ok
<Zaheer> yes i know about that but i thort it was only fedora/rh specific ...
<ogra> Yagisan, is that with the default install or the workstation version ? 
<Yagisan> default
<Yagisan> from the torrent
<ogra> hmm
* Yagisan is happy - my sec fix for hoary was accepted
<ogra> :)
<Yagisan> ogra: Did it tell you my work in progress business website address ?
<Yagisan> s/it/I
<ogra> nope
<Yagisan> http://www.eyagiconsulting.com
<Yagisan> not finished and it currently redirects to my isp free pages
<Yagisan> but the security flaw is listed there in research
<Yagisan> breezy was fixed long ago - but not hoary
<Yagisan> we have a problem
<ogra> did you ping pitti about it ? 
<Yagisan> http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/edubuntu-vmware.png
<Yagisan> pitti is doing the upload for me
* Yagisan is not a MOTU
<ogra> but on your way ;)
<ogra> yup, known bug from today...
<Yagisan> I help in my way
<Yagisan> oh ?
<ogra> use --force-overwrite with dpkg manually or wait for the next xorg upload
* Yagisan hates to use --force
<ogra> then just wait
<ogra> the error is known...
<Yagisan> heh I'm 2 for 2 now
<JaneW> ogra: do you have the answer to silbs' question re the wiki merging?
<JaneW> ogra: i.e. is anyone working on a fix and/or does anyone even know how to fix it?
<ogra> i saw the mail, ther was a question ? 
<ogra> oh, did see the mail yet
<ogra> i think thats hno79 land ...
<ogra> s/did/didnt
<JaneW> hmmm, he is still on leave
<JaneW> and is sure to have a full mail box on his return...
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but i have no insight at all how the wiki merge is done...
<Zaheer> just another question why cant i use scsi drives?
<ogra> ask vmware ? 
<Zaheer> oh ok so its not a gnu/linux thing
<ogra> no idea, i dont even have vmware, but they are normally out of sync with very new kernels...
<Yagisan> Zaheer - It's a driver bug
<ogra> so it might be either one
<Yagisan> buslogic driver has an error
<Zaheer> oh ok :) i like to know why.
<Yagisan> 00:24:22) jbailey: Yagisan: Cool thanks.  The new kernel should apparently fix it.
<Yagisan> vmware must had changed something in the buslogic emulation
<Yagisan> it should be good to go with edubuntu final
<shaga> whos drinking with me? :)
<Zaheer> well im installing the preview first, so i'll see how that goes first. if it works then cool
<ogra> Zaheer, follow the notes pointed out in the topic...
<Yagisan> I'm giving it a test run too. I want to move my business to a thin client system - and this looks like a good way to test
<ogra> but i guess you wont run the final installation in vmware ;)
<Yagisan> nope
* Yagisan will brb
<Zaheer> hey i like this bronze logo looks really cool :)
<ogra> will also be in the bootsplash soon..
<magnon> ogra: there will be an edubuntu usplash?
<ogra> its already there, just not compiled in... it will depend on jbailey to add the feture for different splash screens
<magnon> ogra: you know of any law-savvy canonicals who might be able to sacrifice a few minutes for me, btw?
<ogra> magnon, hmm, i'm not sure we have any lawyer... 
<ogra> (i dont think so)
<magnon> just someone more interested in law than usual, anyway
<ogra> elmo does the license checking stuff, but thats all
<magnon> ok
<ogra> is it about contracting stuff ?
<magnon> it's about copyright assignment
<ogra> hmm, then elmo could probably help, but he's *very* busy and hard to catch currently
<magnon> ok
<magnon> thanks anyway
<magnon> I'll try to ask in a non-intrusive and efficient way :P
<Zaheer> yawl enjoy the weekend :D im out. bye bye
<Yagisan> heh - simple solution to x-org problem - don't update x-org-common
<ogra> heh
<Yagisan> ogra: you do this all yourself ?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i hope that'll change for dapper
<Yagisan> cool
<Yagisan> now that edubuntu is finally installed and up to date, I can now configure it
<ogra> :)
* Yagisan wishes mc was in main
<Yagisan> how do I update the ltsp environment ?
<ogra> chroot into it...
<ogra> oh, and check that there is a usable sources.list
<ogra> the current default is the CD ... 
<Yagisan> thanks ogra
<Yagisan> still no way to run "local apps" ?
<ogra> highvoltage did it in a odd way, he installed the whole desktop in the chroot.. 
<ogra> that works indeed
<Yagisan> well I'm about to start the first clients
<Yagisan> I'd only want to run one or two apps locally
<ogra> thats not possible currently without a lot of fiddling
<Yagisan> I was thinking distcc on the clients
<Yagisan> it would be nice to harness their unused processing power
<ogra> ah, i thought a gui app or something
<ogra> indeed you can do such things
<Yagisan> excellent
<Yagisan> I used to use openmosix with 2.4.x
<Yagisan> but they haven't released patches against 2.6.x (only cvs)
<Yagisan> that was good for clustered load ballancing
<ogra> i'll have to add such features for dapper :)
<Yagisan> I'll try to help
<ogra> yay :)
<Yagisan> things *I* need are like distcc, john, rainbowcrack
<Yagisan> that I can split up and pass to the clients
<ogra> i'm also thinking about some autonice stuff ...
<Yagisan> occasionally mencoder when I buy Kate (my daughter) a new dvd
<Yagisan> the is an openmosix based live cd distro
<Yagisan> it has automatically configured full mesh ipsec
<Yagisan> perhaps we could "borrow" it
<Yagisan> for dapper
<Yagisan> one of my competitors is hosting it
<Yagisan> :(
<ogra> why :( ?
<Yagisan> client stops at TFTP.
<Yagisan> I must has missed something
<ogra> it doesnt boot ? 
<ogra> or does it hang after booting ? 
<Yagisan> the TFTP dots are slowly increasing
<Yagisan> but no boot
<ogra> hmm, looks like your tftp server isnt running then
<ogra> check /etc/inetd.conf
<Yagisan> it's enabled and running
* Yagisan gets ethereal out
* Yagisan confirms tftp packets - concludes must be a pebkac error
<Yagisan> yep pebkac - trying to send a non-existant kernel
<Yagisan> it's not in /ltsp
<Yagisan> because there is no /ltsp
<ogra> aehm...
<ogra> but you installed correctly and didnt use the workstation version ? 
<Yagisan> yep
<ogra> (no installation erors ?=)
<Yagisan> none that I could see (it didn't have net access though)
<Yagisan> I specify a full /var/lib/tftp etc path
<ogra> where ?`
<Yagisan> I was about to do that in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<Yagisan> nope - that was a bad idea
<Yagisan> that gave a file not found message from pxeboot
<Yagisan> must have been very slow at transferring
<Yagisan> etherboot instructions ? I'll try a real client
<Yagisan> fixed it. mumble muble f*cking mtu issues fragmenting tftp packets
<Yagisan> excellent the new etherboot images from rom-o-matic can be configured to emulate pxe
<Yagisan> I'll finish testing tommorrow
<Yagisan> night all
<yvesC> Accepted gcompris 7.0.2-1 (source all i386)
<yvesC> (debian)
<ogra> yvesC, i didnt get approval for an upgrade
<ogra> :/
<yvesC> take 6.5.3. 
<yvesC> Don't put a broken gcompris, please. administration is broken in your cvs dated.
<ogra> yup, i know, i'll have to fix it, but i'm not yet sure how
<yvesC> Look the changelog between your date and the release date. The admin databse has changed place, changed column name.
<ogra> an option would be to create a patch with the delta between the cvs i have now and 7.0 (in fact that'd be an upgrade but wouldnt show up in the version number)
<yvesC> Even if you can make it run, the db will not be compliant with following releases; All the administration stuff will have to be supressed and redo.
<yvesC> A patch with 7.0, yes i can do that.
<ogra> i have no prob with the admin stuff being supressed for now... we have a 6 month release cycle so 7.0 is quite near...
<yvesC> GCompris cvs without admin, you cannot suppress activities 
<ogra> hmm, ok
<yvesC> in 653, there was gcompris-edit. We replaced it by the new admin module, sqlite based
<ogra> so the two opportiunities are to fix 653 or to secretly update to 7.0 but not tell anyone
<yvesC> Yes
<yvesC> 653 was not compiling ?
<ogra> not with gcc4 and the libc version we have in breezy
<ogra> and since the current version is half way 7.0 upgrading silently through a patch would be the best i guess... 
<yvesC> Yep
<ogra> i'll go with that then :)
<yvesC> Thanks
<ogra> i think i'll have time beginning next wek to care for it, would you take a look at itafterwards ? 
<yvesC> Yes, if it's possible
<ogra> sure :)
<ogra> thanks a lot...
<ogra> next time i'll coordinate beter with you, promised ;)
<yvesC> we are in #gcompris, or you got my mail in my bugreport
<ogra> better even
<ogra> yup, got the bugreport... all edubuntu related bugs are assigned to me anyway, edubuntu is a one man show :)
<ogra> (hope that changes for the next release)
<yvesC> Thanks, Debian package is almost correct now, dependancies seems correctly fixed. We have worked with it's maintener.
<ogra> great
<yvesC> Important change was between 7.0.1-1 and 7.0.1-2
<ogra> ok
<ogra> i'll grab 7.0.1-2 then and produce a dpatch from it 
<yvesC> edubuntu is a one man show... Great job!
<bdoin> congratulation.
<ogra> heh, thanks :)
<bdoin> we are waiting for a great educational distrib for many years. hope this time it's the good one.
<ogra> its very basic for the first release, currently i'm only building the base for future releases, its comparable to k12ltsp but not yet with skolelinux...
<ogra> i.e. target for ths release is a singel classroom, next release is a school and in two releases we'll target the municipality
<bdoin> is there some colaboration between you and skolelinux ?
<ogra> sure
<bdoin> great.
<ogra> pere_gone is one of the (or *the*) skole core developer
<ogra> we (JaneW, mark shuttleworth and me) visited a skole summit and they came to ours...
<ogra> we keep an eye on each other and i hope i can produce a base for them in the future
<ogra> but since they are rather targeting the enterprise market there is still a way to go for edubuntu
<bdoin> ok, I see
<ogra> its still our first release, we are targeting the low hanging fruits with it and will grow over time... but with a 6 month release cycle the growth is quite fast ;)
<bdoin> correct. is there some organisation ready to use edubuntu at this stage
<ogra> sure, tuxlabs in south africa already uses it... we have some companys in south america and norway that are interested 
#edubuntu 2005-09-29
<ogra> additionally there was expressed interst by some very huge worldwide organizations i cant talk about at this stage
<Gand> hi all
<Gand> I get an error while updating system!
<ogra> hi
<ogra> oh
<ogra> what is it about ?
<Gand> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/x-common_1.08_all.deb:
<ogra> ah, known error
<ogra> its from ubuntu...
<Gand> can't write over /usr/lib/X11/fonts
<Gand> :(
<Gand> is a way to solve?
<ogra> try: sudo dpkg -i --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/x-common_1.08_all.deb
<ogra> it will be fixed during the next days
<Gand> well I've just don sudo
<Gand> x-common configured
<gand_> hi sorry I've closed xchat
<gand_> now update is running thaks
<gand_> I'm working remotely with vnc
<gand_> the fact is that gnome now has only one desktop
<gand_> thaks =thanks :)
<ogra> what do you mean wit "only one desktop" ?
<gand_> only one virtual desktop,, only one square bottom right instead of four
<gand_> near the bin
<ogra> yup
<gand_> I hope after upgrade it will be solved
<gand_> I install edubuntu yesterday and I've not problem during update
<ogra> great
<gand_> I've reinstalled ubuntu today and I get the above errors
<ogra> you can adjust the number of desktops with gconf-editor
<ogra> just go to /apps/metacity/general and set the number of workspaces as you like
<gand_> sorry, gconf-editor, where is it?
<ogra> applications->system tools->configuration editor
<ogra> or run it from a terminal...
<gand_> I'm gui evangelist :)
<ogra> the key you have to change is called num_workspaces
<gand_> tks now I do
<gand_> FYI I've installed Italian locale
<gand_> all menus are in italian exept for the main bar: Applocations/Places/System is written in english
<ogra> use the language selector, select italian and log out/in again
<ogra> it is in system->system settings
<gand_> number workspace is already set to 4 :)
<gand_> well now my system is uptodate :) I restart
<ogra> oki
<bdoin> perhaps it's not the same need for south africa but an ONG requested us to customize it for africa
<bdoin> I mean, replacing european objects, images, by typical african one
<gand_> hi with language selector I can download also english and switch sistem from italian to english and viceversa?
<ogra> yup
<bdoin> I am not sure but there is not many localized educational software in many african country.
<gand_> nice :)
<ogra> bdoin, not really... but most countries are french or english anyway
<bdoin> we can have a REAL advantage over any proprietary software is we provide an edu app that look like it was done 'at home'
<ogra> yup
<ogra> thats why we also have a DVD now with 90 languages...
<bdoin> I am not talking about the translation but the real content
<ogra> ah yes, thats  bit tricky if you make a distro... if you provide a CD the space mostly gets used by applications, no place for extra content
<bdoin> for example, we should use african colors, african fruits, houses, ..
<ogra> i'd love to distribute mediawiki on the CD (our security team decided against it sadly) and put a wikipedia DVD aside
<bdoin> you are thinking distribution but there is way to manage that.
<ogra> not an a CD
<ogra> s/an/on
<bdoin> in gcompris we have themes but we could have 'styles' like africa, asia, ..
<ogra> currently the distro takes 702 MB on the CD for powerpc...
<bdoin> the styles can be packaged on their own.
<ogra> thats the very edge
<ogra> the DVD will be different, but since we wont ship it, and third world countries cant be expected to have a internet connection to download a DVD, its not easy
<ogra> i already have a problem with the gcompris sounds packages, its quite hard to get them on the CD
<ogra> they are huge... its the nature of sound content...
<ogra> i'd love to have more content in the distro
<bdoin> 3-4MB/locale
<ogra> yup
<bdoin> I know, gcompris is a mess to package and it eat all the space ;)
<ogra> yup... i think we'll probably split the distro in the future... a basic CD for only th distro and a DVD wit distro and content...
<bdoin> that makes sense
<gand_> aarggg I forget that now my restarted machine has the login screen and I can't connect via vnc LOL
<mpt> ogra: ship a printed Wikipedia instead :-)
<ogra> lol
* mpt leaves so as not to be the last out of the office
<ogra> i think the shipment costs would break the budget :)
<gand_> it was so fast that I'll do some screenrecorder using vnc
<gand_> I've tryed Istanbul, but framerate is too fast and cursor has a yellow halo around it, not yet usable in my opinion
<ogra> nope, thats why we dont install it by default yet
<ogra> but it will be ready eventually...
<gand_> do you have a link to a fast guide on "how to install and configure apache?", I've read that edubuntu will/have CMS Mambo
<ogra> mambo ? nope
<gand_> I'm interesting on how to set up a server with mambo or some other e-learning cms
<gand_> opps
<ogra> moodle will be in the final version 
<ogra> and schooltool
<gand_> yes moodel sorry
<gand_> 1.13 am here :)
<ogra> just install it from universe, its not yet in main...
<ogra> same time here ;)
* ogra waves from germany
<gand_> will be easy to install and  configure? I Know howw to do it with OSX and I like to learn and set up with edu/ubuntu
<ogra> moode installs fine with a default setup, look at www.moodle.org for docs
<gand_> I know that I need apache/PHP/Mysql before
<ogra> nope, we use postgreql, thats way more secure... moodle installs in the webderver and has a easy webinterface to configure it
<ogra> webserver even
<gand_> sorry I'm not afraid of moodle, but how to set up the server with postgree.... (moodle don't use php?)
<ogra> just install moodle, the rest is done automatiaclly
<ogra> no need to fiddle with stuff :)
<gand_> nice, with synaptic package manager?
<ogra> postgres is in the edubuntu default install, it should already be there... apache as well... moodle will care for php and the rest if you install it...
<gand_> I'll try next days and I'll do a screenrecord tutorial :)
<ogra> all you need to do is to do the web setup through the web interface
<ogra> in the final version it will be preinstalled, i'm just figting with some security issues that require a upgrade of the package
<gand_> yes, but there are sometimes little but important passage, for example: how to start apache? with the command line apechectl start, I suppose?
<gand_> on osx I need only a click in the sharing system preference panel
<gand_> will ubuntu be as usable as OSX :)
<gand_> http://www.freesmug.org/usex/
<ogra> if you install apache, its started automatically
<gand_> nice to know
<gand_> there are often little important things that could be obvious when you know and are written in 1000 pages manual.
<ogra> like all servers in ubuntu it comes with a default setuo and just works :)
<gand_> unfortunatly I don't know enought of ubuntu. I'll use your precious experience in the future as I ,with some other my collegues (teachers), have a project to set up and use e-learning platform on linux
<ogra> great, feel free to ask 
<gand_> thanks a lot, now bed ask to me :)
<gand_> see you next
<ogra> bye
<gand_> ciao
<gand_> gute Nacht
<ogra> ciao
<shaga> good morning janew
<Yagisan> finally got a mostly working install in vmware now
<Yagisan> can boot from network card pxe
<Yagisan> or with pxe emulation from etherboot 5.4.1
<shaga> :)
<Yagisan> now to bios mod my p2 to have etherboot
<Yagisan> the was a weird issue with nfs though
<Yagisan> it would timeout and sometimes need a new reboots of the client
<Yagisan> to actually boot
<Yagisan> Am I correct in assuming I have to chroot into the ltsp to add/remove users ?
<Yagisan> g'day ogra
<ogra> hi
<Yagisan> I was archiving some old data, and found something interesting
<Yagisan> back in 2004 - I did a project similar to edubuntu
<Yagisan> I found my teams documentaion
<Yagisan> interested in having a look ?
<ogra> sure :)
<Yagisan> http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/2004_06_29_Jamie_Jones_and_Mark_Poppitt_Major_Project__Dip_Network_Engineering_.pdf
<Yagisan> It was written for a windows bigot so in places it seems dumbed down
<Yagisan> but it might be useful
* Yagisan = Jamie Jones
<ogra> yup, i got that :)
<ogra> (sorry for being a bit unresposive today, i'm finishing the new screensaver dialog)
<Yagisan> heh - thats ok - I'm laggey with 100% cpu load (several colony 5 installs going off at once testing out vmware)
<ogra> heh
<Yagisan> will bug you shortly re edubuntu terminals and log ins
<ogra> ok
<Yagisan> ogra: do you know whats wrong with the nfs server ? - sometimes I have to reset my
<Yagisan> terminal several times before it will boot
<ogra> several times ? 
<ogra> that it doesnt work on first boot is a known bug... but i havent heard about several times yet
<Yagisan> yep - using the etherboot client. Most is 5 resets, usually only 1 or 2 is needed
<ogra> see 12942
<Yagisan> hmm
<Yagisan> anyway back to my log in question
<Yagisan> as I'm having one of those days where all problems seem to be a pebkac error
<Yagisan> I thought I should double check
<Yagisan> after a default install - no users can log in from a terminal right ?
<Yagisan> I would need to chroot to /opt/ltsp/i386 and run adduser manually ?
<Yagisan> or did I miss the documentation
<ogra> err, nope
<ogra> there shoudlnt be any user in the chroot 
<ogra> the chroot is only for booting the thin client and for the X server... everything else (adding users etc) is done on the normal desktop on the server... 
<Yagisan> ogra: then I have a big problem. The user I added on the server can't log in from a terminal
<Yagisan> I'll add another user and see if the can log in
<Yagisan> s/the/they
<ogra> use the user admin tool to make sure the user is in the right groups
<ogra> (it has some predefined profiles)
<shaga> I haven't figured out yet what's that first 's' in that 's/the/they'..
<ogra> it means substitute
<shaga> okay
<Yagisan> just did. What I get is the screen flashes 3 times then it bombs back out to the log in screen
<Yagisan> shaga: man sed :)
<shaga> :p
<ogra> Yagisan, enable the root account in the chroot (chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ && passwd) 
<ogra> then log in on console at the thin client and look at /var/log/ldm.log
<ogra> it should tell you whats wrong
<ogra> i suspect the ssh keys were not generated right from ltsp-build-client ... 
<Yagisan> hmm
<ogra> didnt you say yesterday your /var/lib/tftpboot didnt contain a ltsp directory ? 
<Yagisan> it did - the problem turned out to be the boot client yesterday
<Yagisan> a newer version allowed it to boot
<Yagisan> but it can't log in
<ogra> what doe sthe log say ?
<Yagisan> the log is on the thin client right ?
<Yagisan> because i don't see it on the server
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> just as soon as I can pass ctrl-alt+f2 to the virtual machine I'll tell you
* Yagisan wishes he had more pc's
<ogra> you run the client in vmware o_O
<Yagisan> yeah (I lost several pc's due to lightning about 3 months ago and can't afford to replace them)
<Yagisan> a-ha did it
<Yagisan> "Host Key verification failed"
<ogra> run ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server and try again (probably you need to reboot the client before)
<Yagisan> ok. Had a chance to skim the doc yet ?
<ogra> nope... i'll read it tonight...
<Yagisan> no worries
<Yagisan> I can log in :)
<ogra> sure :)
<ogra> somehow it looks like ltsp-build-clietn didnt run right in your install... did you have errors at install time ? 
<Yagisan> not that I noticed
<ogra> strange...
<Yagisan> wow - no working mouse
* Yagisan should try a re-install
<ogra> because ltsp-update-sshkeys is run as the last command before gdm starts after install
<ogra> so there should be a valid key in the chroot...
<Yagisan> fixed - nomouse (psmouse module not loaded)
<ogra> oh, your install is outdated ;) its fixed in later versons of module-init-tools
<Yagisan> outdated is it ?
<Yagisan> I just used your wonderful cd to install it
<Yagisan> anyway - tomorrow I'll do a new install and keep an eye out for any errors
<ogra> there was a bug in module-init-tools for about a week i guess you have one of the broken images... i didnt notice it because it only occurs in readonly filesystems
<Yagisan> if you have a newer iso now would be a good time to point me too it
<Yagisan> as it's 2:35am here and my wife is yelling at me to go to bed
<ogra> i havent tested todays, but i suppose its good, since its based on a colony release :)
<Yagisan> link to todays build would be nice - the one I'm looking at ( http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ ) I already have
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<ogra> or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20050924/
<Yagisan> thanks ogra. any queries about my doc feel free to /msg me and I'll respond when I get up
<ogra> oki
<shaga> has the cd image been updated much during last 4 days?
<ogra> there were some bug fixes...
<ogra> especially udev and linux-restricted-modules
<shaga> okay
#edubuntu 2005-09-30
<JonnyRo> hello
<Darth> hi
<JonnyRo> Darth: hows it going
<Darth> so far.... so good...
<JonnyRo> glad to hear people are working on LTSP with ubuntu
<JonnyRo> i've been wanting to set up thin clients for a while
<Darth> whats LTSP
<Darth> sorry, im such a newb
<JonnyRo> linux terminal server project
<Darth> nice
<JonnyRo> edubuntu in general (if i understand correctly) can make use of that tech to let you run thin clients
<JonnyRo> so you can run small embedded pc's at each students' desktop
<Darth> hmm interesting
<Darth> what about in other stuff like in PDA's or cellphones?
<JonnyRo> nothing to do with that
<JonnyRo> well, unless the PDA can run a LTSP client, which is i guess possible with the PocketPC systems
<Darth> hmm interesting
<JonnyRo> Darth: what brings you to #edubuntu?  are you an educator?
<Darth> pretty close
<Darth> im a college student =)
<JonnyRo> ah
<JonnyRo> you've been using Ubuntu on your PC yet?
<Darth> yeah, im just using the LiveCD though
<Darth> havent had the time yet to install it
<Darth> honestly, just lazy
<JonnyRo> Edubuntu as far as I know is primarily centered around making Ubuntu work in a classroom lab setting
<JonnyRo> so the teacher can interact with the students
<JonnyRo> and influence their desktops
<JonnyRo> Regular ubuntu is probably best for normal workstation use
<Darth> u mean like take it over?
<JonnyRo> Darth: I dont know if it supports this yet, but i'd imagine it would be cool for a teacher to be able to show a student how to do something
<JonnyRo> via thier own pc
<JonnyRo> from the front of the room
<Darth> yeah.... that would be a great tool to make...
<JonnyRo> i know they can push files and stuff around already
<JonnyRo> not too sure on the other aspect
<JonnyRo> Where do you go to school?
<Darth> The City College of NY
<JonnyRo> cool
<Darth> so are u involved in edubuntu in anyway JohnnyRo?
<JonnyRo> nope, but i'm definately interested
<JonnyRo> I am very excited about using thin client setups
<JonnyRo> at business locations
<JonnyRo> I tried using the stuff from K12-LTSP ages ago
<JonnyRo> but it was somewhat immature 
<JonnyRo> at the time
<JonnyRo> Ubuntu provides such an awesome user experience that I would love to be able to implement that cheaply.
<Darth> well Ubuntu is free... i guess that is as cheap as you are gonna get...
<JonnyRo> free as in dollars, but depending on how easy stuff is to set up, you end up paying in time
<Darth> ahh tru
<JonnyRo> Ubuntu is just great for a workstation computer that you do a full install on
<JonnyRo> that was a huge timesaver
<Darth> lol
<JonnyRo> But for thin clients, I will have to experiment first
<Darth> so what do u do for a living?
<JonnyRo> IT Manager
<Darth> where?
<JonnyRo> Florida
<Darth> nice
<JonnyRo> It's a decent living
<JonnyRo> lots of research though
<JonnyRo> constant learning
<Darth> eh
<Darth> i hate learning
<Darth> i like doing
<Darth> =)
<JonnyRo> everyone's got their own style
<Darth> wo a doubt
<Darth> brb
<spacey> JonnyRo, edubuntu makes thin client setup really easy
<spacey> so its easy in ubuntu itself with the right packages
<rejden> which packages?
<spacey> the ltsp packages i guess:)
<spacey> in breezy
<rejden> didn't tried thinkclient things yet
<rejden> it's good?
<JonnyRo> i definately think it's time to download breezy
<JonnyRo> and start trying things out
<rejden> i'm too busy with writing things atm
<rejden> but i put it in my ToDo things for sure
<JonnyRo> ubuntulinux.org feels a bit on the slow side
<JonnyRo> alright folks, have a nice night
<JonnyRo> cya
<spacey> goodnight
* spacey zz
<spacey> rejden, yes its good, and freenx is cool too
<rejden> oh, i will prolly have some lame questions while try to test
<shaga> good morning all
<rejden> same to you shaga 
<Yagisan> G'day ogra
<Yagisan> Installed the daily cd yesterday in vmware. Still needed to add eth0 to the auto line in interfaces
<Yagisan> and had to run the ltsp-update-sshkeys
<Yagisan> hmm- my p2l97 is beeping at me
<ogra> hmm, works flawless on normal installs, i suspect there is a vmware problem then...
<ogra> no errors during install and you used the default IP the installer offers ? 
* ogra will have a party once he doesnt need to ask this IP question anymore
<Yagisan> no errors at all on install - and I used the defaults
<Yagisan> :(:'(:( I just plugged a pci video card into the p2l97 and found out what the beeping means - corrupt bios
<ogra> hmm...
<Yagisan> is it dependent on the ethernet mac address ?
<ogra> not at all, no
<Yagisan> ok. just wondering why it won't bring eth0 up
<ogra> the problem is that the dhcp.conf isnt autogenerated, if the IP of eth0 doesnt match the range in there it fails to install edubuntu-desktop, so the ltsp-update-sshkeys isnt run
<ogra> and the tftpserver which gets installed after dhcpd might not be set up corretctly...
<ogra> in any case it looks like you eth0 isnt even up during install
<Yagisan> well edubuntu-desktop is installed
<ogra> err
<ogra> edubuntu-server
<Yagisan> edubuntu-server too
<ogra> sudo apt-get -f install doesn nothing ? 
<ogra> or dpkg --configure -a
<Yagisan> I just ran "dpkg --configure -a" and didn't get any output
<Yagisan> the packages are installed according to aptitude
<ogra> yup looks like
<ogra> i suspect its some vmware speciality...
<Yagisan> typical
* Yagisan needs to find a floppy disk
<ogra> anything in bugzilla about eth0 not being configured right ? 
<Yagisan> haven't checked yet
<Yagisan> I noticed I still can't do lvm over raid in breezy
<ogra> you can, as long as you use a /boot partition not on LVM
<ogra> its a known bug
<ogra> i think its grub who cant handle it right
<Yagisan> eth0 - not bugs found
<Yagisan> my /boot is never lvm anyway
<ogra> hmm, most of these are Kamion questions... you could ask him tomorrow, i'm not this familiar with the installer...
<Yagisan> I intend to grab some screenshots from my next install for that
<Yagisan> I reported similar bug with hoary (+ workaround)
<Yagisan> why was the screensaver changed ?
<ogra> gnome-screensaver wasnt ready
<ogra> but mark wanted us to change to it...
<ogra> now we convinced him to change back, but he requires that the lock window shall look similar
<ogra> (takes me ages to make that happen)
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/xss.html
<Yagisan> the existing lock screen with the bar that decreases
<Yagisan> that's xscreensaver isn't it ?
<Yagisan> (hoary system here)
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> I like that
<ogra> i dont like the timer for example...
<Yagisan> you don't ?
<ogra> the new dialog just extends the time by 3 seconds for every keystroke, so the window wont disappear as long as you type
<ogra> and it has no scary timer anymore that sets the user under pressue
* Yagisan finally fond a floopy disk - hopes it has no bad sectors
* Yagisan leaves to try and repair corrupt bios
<rejden> i'm curious, how is edubuntu i10n handled?
<ogra> rejden, through language packs, we inherit the loclization into 90 languages from ubuntu
<rejden> and what about the nontranslated software?
<ogra> nearly all in main is translated
<ogra> if yu mean the universe software, there you can only expect that amount of translation upstream offers, but you can translate every app in ubuntu through rosetta if you like
<rejden> actually i'm building a team of translators because we want to do some propaganda in school sector
<rejden> yeah i know about the rosseta, but it takes some time until things settle :)
<ogra> heh, yes, but its already quite famous
<rejden> it's not about famous
<rejden> btw are you familiar with rosetta?
<ogra> only very rough, i'm not a translator :)
<ogra> (i tested it and did some translation work with it to try it)
<rejden> so i try to ask ;) here is done translation https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/ and if you enter any language you see all the translated documents and who translated them, but the person who did it isn't listable (like his email adress and such) i was wandering if there is any list of "clickable" people for current language
<ogra> hmm, thats rather a question for #launchpad then, i'm not too much in the details of rosetta
<rejden> i'll try
<ogra> :)
#edubuntu 2005-10-01
<kerinin> i'm interested in setting up a classroom full of computers in an underprivileged international school (to be used for ESL) - can anyone point me to some resources?  my current approach is to put edubuntu on a server and connect 20+ monitors/keyboards as X hosts to the central host.  my goal is to get as many terminals installed as cheaply as possible.   
<kerinin> ideas?
<magnon> well, edubuntu is surely a good start :-)
<magnon> clients can probably be found from businesses who want to get rid of old machines, they save money by giving them away to you
<magnon> the server seems to be harder to find "for free", so that's often an investment
<magnon> http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1535
<magnon> wrong channel :p
<shaga> :)
<magnon> politics don't belong here
* magnon apologises
<kerinin> thanks guys!
<magnon> kerinin: just drop by any time if you need help
<magnon> european daytime is best though I guess :P
<kerinin> right now i'm trying to find used thin clients, apparently a company called wyse used to make them, and you can get them for about 10USD
<mpm2> hello all; I've been following the edubuntu project and am interested in making it happen in my classroom; I'm a 2nd grade teacher and currently have about 15 machines in my class, most of which are running Ubuntu (Hoary).  Are most of you developers or teachers or ??  should I join the mailing list or is it very technical?  The Edubuntu Testing page says after install to "try netboot" on one of your clients... How do I set up cl
<mpm2> kind of a windy hello!  I thought I might just say hello, but better to get to the heart of my questions :-)
<xuniluser> so silenet here...
<xuniluser> silent
<jsgotangco> hi
<xuniluser> hello
<jsgotangco> xuniluser, its not so silent after all then :)
<shaga> nope
<xuniluser> jsgotangco: ok... but passive... anyways, when will be the official release of ubuntu
<jsgotangco> oct. 13
<xuniluser> hmmmmm ok... 2 weeks to go. hehehehe.... we badly needed edubuntu and were praying that it will answer our needs in the laboratory
<xuniluser> we are removing all windows in our university...
<jsgotangco> have you tried the preview/daily build?
<xuniluser> hmmm not yet... i do it
<jsgotangco> by getting the preview/daily build, you'll have an idea how it works
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: is it true that oct 13 is mdz's birthday?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage, no idea, sure is great if its his birthday that day
<JaneW> yes mdz's birthday is Oct 13 ;)
<Zaheer> hello, hello :)
<Seveas> /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list
<Seveas> hmm
<Seveas> odd, the '/' is a command :)
<Zaheer> can anyone tell what exactly is in language-pack-kde-en-base and how big it is... cause my install has been sitting there for last 20mins or so just installing that package..
<poningru> Seveas: dude you put something infront of the /
<poningru>  /
<JaneW> ogra: ping
<ogra> JaneW, pong
<JaneW> ogra: did you see mdz's e-mail to me? I guess the LOTR patch is a moot point now...
<ogra> JaneW, it always was :) flint just didnt get it :)
<JaneW> ogra: I have several more e-mails from flint, but I think it's best to let him dig his own hole here...
<ogra> JaneW, and sorry, but sabdfl set my new highes prio to xscreensaver again...
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/xss.html
<ogra> ^^^ have to finish this first :/
<JaneW> ogra: ok so g-s-s is out then?
<ogra> since more than a week, but xss needs heavy (time consuming) changes
<JaneW> good
<JaneW> more than a week?
<ogra> (the two buttons on the right are a mess to implement)
<JaneW> oh wait was x the new one sabdfl wanted?
<JaneW> so sabdfl doesn;t want to revert then?
<ogra> err, quite exactly after the TB meeting... not exactly a week
<JaneW> ok I'm confussed
<ogra> sabdfl just wants the lock dialog to look like that, he doesnt care which screensaver app we use
<JaneW> Gnome was the new one, but we have reverted BACK to x right?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> the problem is, gss doesnt work righ yet
<shaga> I'm trying something here at work, on lame windows machine. could someone from us try to connect to this? ftp://shag.ath.cx
<ogra> and xss is missing the lock dialog
<JaneW> ok, I'm with you
<shaga> s/us/u.s.
<JaneW> ogra: how hard is it to get in?
<ogra> i hope it takes me less then a week :(
<ogra> its really hard to get something into code that is written to prevent *any* addition
<ogra> the xss author sees it as a security feature that nothing can get added
<JaneW> hmmm
<ogra> stealing time...
<JaneW> why are you responsible for the screensaver stuff?
<ogra> because i cared for it since the end of warty, it was my entry point into ubuntu
<ogra> nobody knows the code as good as i do... sabdfl knows that
<ogra> i guess others would take twice as long to get into it
<ogra> its very hard to understand and written in a very odd way... additionally missing a lot of code comments
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> have you spoken to sabdfl at all recently?
<JaneW> I need to get an answer on the edubuntu CD issue
<ogra> saturday
<ogra> but only about xss tuff
<JaneW> i.e. are we or aren;t we going to press some for the launch...
<ogra> he should be back from holiday today
<JaneW> I think he will be in the CT offices tomorrow, I will see if I can catch him
<JaneW> he is apparently in CT
<JaneW> I am at home today, so I am not sure if he is there...
<ogra> ah, good
<ogra> he'll be in #c if he is around i guess
<jsgotangco> ogra, good luck i'll just bug you before the week ends
<ogra> ok
<JaneW> ogra: and edubuntu dev in general, did we get a good CD build for the w/e?
<ogra> i havent tested it yet, but it looks ok... (have the iso here, will do a test install today)
<JaneW> will we be ready for 13 Oct?
<jsgotangco> i tried the once last saturday and it installed fine
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> JaneW, it gets a bit tight now, i didnt plan this much time for xss
<ogra> but still doable...
<ogra> we still have 12942, the progress reporting in the installer for ltsp installation is still missing and autogeneration if the dchp.conf file in ltsp isnt done yet (mdz knows) i had to spend my weekend with xss...
<ogra> the dhcp stuff is trivial... but will need testing
<ogra> worst case we could go withoit the progress reporting, it just looks odd...
<JaneW> progess reporting?
<ogra> 12942 is a thing i guess i have to poke jbailey more about
<ogra> the installer builds the ltsp environment in the first stage before first reboot
<ogra> it takes between 5 and 10 min
<ogra> there is a progres bar, but that jumps to 50% after 2min and then to 100% at the very end...
<ogra> so users dont really see progress
<ogra> its cosmetic, but you could think that the install stopped...
<JaneW> oic, yes could be confussing and frustrating
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> unless they go to vt1
<ogra> worst case i'll rip out the progress completely and just write on the screen please wait 10min until ltsp is done
<jsgotangco> or somewhere
<JaneW> ogra: that's could work
<jsgotangco> vt4 i mean
<JaneW> that
<JaneW> ogra: just do that if there's no time to do something more elegant
<ogra> its not nice and its not what i want, but its a fallback
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> ogra: at least ppl know what to expect then, and what's going on
<jsgotangco> we can add it as a known issue
<ogra> oh and i need to fix some gcompris bugs, but thats done in an afternoon... nothing really time consuming
<JaneW> ok
* ogra goes coding.... might be unresponsive today...
<JaneW> bye
<ogra> i dont go away :) 
<ogra> i'm just playing with screen locking so i'll see more of my locked screen than from xchat ;)
<jsgotangco> the aim is to make it look like g-s-s?
<ogra> jsgotangco, yup
<ogra> which requires the full username and two additional buttons beside the cosmetic changes
<ogra> adding buttons isnt easy here.... (adding them is, but making them functional is a PITA)
<jsgotangco> ickkk from what i've heard before x-s-s isn't really comment friendly
<ogra> see my mockup from above
<Zaheer> hi can i ask a question about the gpl here?
<JaneW> zaheer: ok
<Zaheer> thanks :D
<Zaheer> here goes
<Zaheer> Lets say for example i have written a piece of software that i
<Zaheer> distribute on a cd for a small fee, can i put any software released under
<Zaheer> gnu gpl on there aswell and still charge for my software. I am not
<Zaheer> charging for the open source software but for my software only.
<Zaheer> .. am i in any violation of the gpl at all???
<JaneW> er....
<JaneW> I am certainly no expert
<JaneW> but as I understand it OSS doesn;t have to be free of charge...
<Zaheer> i realize that... although i dont want i feel it takes away the goodeness from oss
<jsgotangco> yes
<Zaheer> so i am in violation, could you explain in which way please.
<jsgotangco> no you're not
<Zaheer> oh :D
<jsgotangco> you just sell your software right
<Zaheer> yes.
<jsgotangco> it was writeen from scratch by you?
<Zaheer> yes.
<jsgotangco> becuase if you pulled some sources from gpl'ed source, you're bound to the gpl as well
<Zaheer> yes i am aware of that.
<jsgotangco> why not just ship your own software separately?
<Zaheer> let me explain i have an apllication the writes out quotations to a text file and in order for the user to ship that text file in non editable format i thort i can distribute pdf-creator with my software to allow the user to print the quotes to a pdf.
<Zaheer> am still allowed to do that?
<Zaheer> is there a problem with the terminal services client in edubuntu?? everytime i connect to a TS and close the connection an error message pops up.
<Zaheer> the error message : "NOT IMPLEMENTED : System pointer message 0x7f00"
<ogra> where do you get this message ? 
<Zaheer> after i closed the TS Session using the "x"
<ogra> using the x ??
<raoulduke> hi all.
<ogra> Zaheer, you talk abut a ltsp client ??
<ogra> hi raoulduke 
<raoulduke> so, anyone here using the preview release in an educational setting currently?
<ogra> raoulduke, jelkner uses it in a school already...
<raoulduke> jelkner isn't in the # right now, and I didn't want to be presumptuous and email him
<ogra> the rest of users are rather testing in a lab environment
<raoulduke> but if he were here, I'd want to talk to him.
<ogra> he is in a US timezone and not around very often (since he's teacher and has work to do)
<raoulduke> I'm about to be cursed with numerous machines of various manufacture and mhz and was told to put XP on them. I can't maintain a single install image for that, so I'm going edubuntu (already running ubuntu as a client around the school---)
<raoulduke> I'm a US east coast teacher too.
<raoulduke> perhaps I'll just email him then, and let him answer on his own time.
<ogra> ah, great
<raoulduke> I'm actually teaching one class using his ThinkCSpy book
<raoulduke> (how to think like a computer scientist, python edition, co-authored by jeff elkner)
<ogra> i dont think you will disturb him if you mail him
<raoulduke> thanks ogra
<raoulduke> I'll be back later. other nicks I use are vmarks and vincenzio- see those? it's still me.
<ogra> if you got specific technical questions, feel free to poke me :)
<ogra> hmm, to late
<Zaheer> Yagisan - thanks for your help on friday.. well to all those who made a contribution :)
<Zaheer> although im still having difficulity installing the vmtools any ideas to get me going?
<Yagisan> Zaheer: No worries
<Yagisan> I haven't got on on to vmtools yet - I just had two machines die :(
<Yagisan> what specific feature of vmtools do you need ?
<Zaheer> well i cant install it .. i mount the cd but i cant run any scripts to start installing vmware normally there that install.pl script but its not there.
<Zaheer> just another question about the gpl :D if i may? i promise this will be the last.
<Zaheer> or even better is the a chat room i can go to for information about the gpl?
<magnon> just ask away
<magnon> I know a fair bit, I'll answer as good as I can
<Zaheer> cool :) does the gpl infect other lics in a distribution? for example if i have a software packges that has lic1 and another with the gpl
<Zaheer> is it  then required of me to release the software in lic1 under the gpl as well? 
<Zaheer> they both on the same cd?
<mpt> Zaheer: no.
<mpt> For example, Ubuntu contains some software under the GPL and some under other licenses.
<ogra> Zaheer, if you take software thats under gpl and improve it, you are forced to release this work under gpl... but thats all
<ogra> (if you consider releasing it)
<mpt> Zaheer: see the last paragraph of section 2.
<Zaheer> ok 2secs :) ..going to read.
<Zaheer> In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program
<Zaheer> with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of
<Zaheer> a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under
<Zaheer> the scope of this License.
<Zaheer> aaahhh :D
<jkrogh> ogra: It there anything special about the kernel in the chroot-environment? Or is it the seme kernel that's used everywehre else? 
<ogra> its absolutely the same...
<Zaheer> thanks guys and/or girls.
<ogra> see the ltsp-update-kernels script ;)
<ogra> (its run by ltsp-build-client)
<Zaheer> what makes edubuntu different from ubuntu?
<ogra> in fact you got three identical kernels on your system after install (at least in edubuntu)
<ogra> one in /boot, one in your tftpboot and one in /opt/ltsp
<shaga> Zaheer: ltsp-system, artwork, educational tools imho :p
<shaga> but I'm sure I don't know it all
<shaga> installation as well
<ogra> Zaheer, ltsp by default, edu apps, schooltool preinstalled, (moodle will follow up before release), artwork and a bunch of different defualt settings
<shaga> a bit
<shaga> ogra: I didn't forget much from my experience then ;)
<ogra> nope :=
<ogra> )
<ogra> in fact you'll get the same with a default breezy install to hich you add edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop
<Zaheer> about the artwork ... ITS REALLY COOL!!! i like the whole kiddie look although the firefox icon looks alot like the gimp :D
<ogra> s/hitch/whitch
<ogra> Zaheer, thanks :)
<JaneW> ogra:  I must switch to edubuntu soon...
<ogra> JaneW, do you have breezy already ? 
<JaneW> ogra: I haven't been brave enough yet *blush*
<JaneW> ogra: no I mostly use hoary
<JaneW> I have an OLD (late June) ver of Breezy, but it has no sound
<JaneW> other than that it is just like hoary
<ogra> JaneW, just update to breezy and put edubuntu-desktop on top... then you got the workstation version :)
<JaneW> :)
* ogra guesses JaneW doesnt want to run a ltsp server on her laptop :)
<JaneW> ogra: not really ;)
<highvoltage> hi ogra
<ogra> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> do you know if anyone has had problems using the lts.conf file?
<highvoltage> i edited it at a school today, while playing with edubuntu from my laptop, and when i used a fairly standard lts.conf file, the clients' keyboards stops working just after ldm starts.
<highvoltage> (sorry if that doesn't make sense- long day)
<shaga> I haven't had a chance to use ltsp
<shaga> actually I don't even know anything about it
<highvoltage> even with a very small lts.conf file, the keyboards freeze when ldm starts, and it doesn't seem that the resolutions/settings chage.
<shaga> only how to conf installtion of edubuntu
<ogra> highvoltage, there was a mail in edubuntu-devel iirc it was fom rickfitz
<shaga> for it
<ogra> highvoltage, sorry, i havent got time this week to debug much, mark set xscreensaver to my highest proirity... that takes a lot of time
<highvoltage> ogra: no problemo.
<highvoltage> i wish i could generate more time. i've never overcommitted myself as far as i've done right now. it's very scary.
<ogra> same here... xscreensaver hacking wasnt on my schedule at all
<spacey> poor ogra, crappy screensaver stuff ;(
<ogra> nah, its fun i love to do it... its just that i havent got the time for such stuff at all
<mpt> ogra: Did you nuke the "Someone else" button?
<ogra> mpt, http://www.grawert.net/xss.html
<ogra> but jdub pokes that i use "switch user"
<ogra> and it will take me ages to implement the other two buttons... its totally not in my time schedule, but sabdfl wont accept it without
<mpt> ogra: wow, that's awesome
<mpt> oh, it's a mockup? :-)
<magnon> ogra: I agree with "Switch User"
<ogra> so after it took me this afternoon to shuffle around the existing elements, it will take me a week o implement the new buttons :/
<ogra> mpt, yup
<ogra> but all existing pieces are in place now, i'm just starting to add new elements
<mpt> btw, "Account" should end with "...", and "Ok" should be "OK" (or "Unlock")
* mpt heads off to class
<ogra> mpt, i think i want a clear wording first what to use for the button...
<ogra> (account or user)
<magnon> ogra: User is, imo, more correct
<ogra> else i'll just call it switch... :p
<magnon> "Account" isn't concrete
<magnon> account is your bank account, computer account, mail account, etc.
<mpt> magnon: It's less correct, because a single user can have multiple accounts
<magnon> "User" is the person who sits at the keyboard
<magnon> exactly
<ogra> magnon, thats something i leave for my boss to decide...
<ogra> or for a discussion between jdub and mpt :)
<magnon> ogra: FYI, a translation to Norwegian with "User" would be totally correct
<magnon> whereas "Account" would be very abstract
<ogra> its not translateable anyway
<magnon> oh :P
<ogra> the code prevents loading of anything not contained in the code...
#edubuntu 2005-10-02
<gand> hi I did a test of my first screentutorial on KEduca with edubuntu. Could someone plese test video? http://www.freesmug.org/usex/index.php?/archives/16-KEduca-ScreenTutorial-TEST.html
<gand> Thanks in advance
<rejden> gand, .avi works
<gand> are you on ubuntu?
<rejden> yep
<gand> what player are you using?
<rejden> mplayer + w32codecs
<rejden> playing in mozilla-mplayer plugin
<gand> nice, does works also h264?
<rejden> gand, with what you made the video?
<rejden> second i check
<gand> little bit complicate :)
<rejden> hehe, the h264 works but every 2-3seconds something blink at the top
<gand> nice to know, are you on x86?
<gand> animation don't work?
<rejden> yes x86
<gand> My edubuntu is on PPC so the only free screenreconrder (Xvidcap and istanbul) dont' work
<rejden> it works, but during playing something blinks at the top of the screen
<rejden> i mean at the top side of video
<gand> you mean "animation" have the same problem of H264?
<gand> next step I'll add audio, and changing language I can do in italiand and in english
<gand> I mean changing system GUI language :)
<gand> thanks a lot rejeden, 1.20 am here, I go to sleep
<rejden> same time here, sleep well
<rejden> i'm going to discover more of quanta plus
<john_b> hello, anyone got some edubuntu specific links on sound they can point me too?
<john_b> specificly looking for info on sound on terminals
<shaga> I didn't use workstation-install for this workstation. was that important?
<shaga> and good morning all :)
<jsgotangco> well you installed ltsp and dhcp
<jsgotangco> hehe
<shaga> okay, so no problem then :)
<unimatrix9> hi theer
<unimatrix9> you are not making live cd's? of edubuntu?
<unimatrix9> or planning to make one...
<unimatrix9> ?)
<jsgotangco> hi all
<shaga> hello
<jsgotangco> JaneW: our docs are ready for packaging/uploading
<JaneW> WooHOO
<jsgotangco> me and jbailey have been slaving over it this morning and we got some stuff uploaded
<jsgotangco> just let me fix the remaining stuff and its ready by tommorow
<shaga> whynot make www.ubuntuguide.org official and add as a homepage for new ubuntu-installs?
<jsgotangco> shaga: we have that for 5.10
<jsgotangco> but removed the crack
<shaga> oh
<ogra> shaga, because ubuntuguideis a mess...
<jsgotangco> shaga: we made an faq but made sure its not as crackful as ubuntuguide.org itself
<shaga> sounds great, what about adding opera to sources now that is free?
<jsgotangco> define free
<jsgotangco> it can be added into multiverse why not
<shaga> it's not open source, but least it doesn't have advertises and it doesn't pay anything..
<shaga> multiverse sounds more reasonable
<jsgotangco> opera isn't difficult to install really
<shaga> for it
<shaga> it's not, but it's very common browser for older machines so that's why I thought it..
<shaga> stating firefox takes about 15seconds on this computer and for opera, the time is only under one second
<shaga> s/stating/starting
<ogra> jsgotangco, does it have a free distribution license for third partys (re: multiverse) ?
<jsgotangco> ogra: probably, PC-BSD has a PBI for it
<ogra> i dont think youre allowed to redistribute it without explicit permission
<jsgotangco> im actually on bsd at the moment and using it
<jsgotangco> http://www.pbidir.com/packages.php?code=59
<jsgotangco> so yeah i guess 3rd parties can redistribute it
<ogra> License:  	Commercial 
<ogra> *shug*
<ogra> we probably should just ask them :)
<shaga> :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> the whole opera thing became  free because of google funding
<magnon> Opera wouldn't be very appropriate for Ubuntu and at least not Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> free as in no pay
<magnon> it shows advertising
<ogra> magnon, in multiverse 
<ogra> it doesnt
<magnon> since when?
<jsgotangco> magnon: it doesn't anymore
<ogra> they freed it
<magnon> it used to
<magnon> ah well
<ogra> since the latest release
<shaga> that's the day I started using it everywhere
<jsgotangco> magnon: similar to the deal with themozilla foundation on firefox
<magnon> I never liked Opera that much anyway
<ogra> but some people do... and we want to do everything that the user doesnt need to edit his sources.list :)
<shaga> I like how opera has "real back" function
<ogra> so getting it into multiverse is a goodplan
<shaga> it doesn't reload the page and goes right into same spot, loads the page from the cache
<shaga> and it's faster(lightweight), those are my main reasons..
<jsgotangco> i actually like it
<magnon> ogra: sure, I thought it still had advertising
<magnon> but to me it's just another browser that does things a little bit incorrect in another way that firefox does things a little bit incorrect
<jsgotangco> i know some devels actually use it
<JaneW> jsgotangco: thanks for your hard work on the docs.
* JaneW goes to look
<ogra> the only thing i dont like about it since the ads are gone it that it uses QT ;)
* JaneW is  bit distracted - lots going on here (Office Idols etc)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: look where? we just uploaded it
<JaneW> jsgotangco: not linked in Edubuntu Docs?
<jsgotangco> not yet
<jsgotangco> ogra: are you going to include ubuntu-docs in the package?
<ogra> depends on the size...
<jsgotangco> proably a meg
<ogra> powerpc is at 704 MB...
<jsgotangco> ouch it overflowed
<ogra> i'm not sure when it explodes
<JaneW> jsgotangco: oic
* JaneW will wait then
<ogra> not yet
<shaga> 800 MB cds rocks :)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: give me a day or two
<jsgotangco> About Edubuntu is already done
<ogra> but its near the edge and i havent looked what i can drop additionally from ppc
<JaneW> jsgotangco: oh alright ;)
<jsgotangco> we've tested the package today
<jsgotangco> fixing the entities are a pain so we're fixing our svn as well
<ogra> i probably wont be able to do anything edubuntu related this week anyway... my highest proi task is still xss
<ogra> so take your time
<jsgotangco> ogra: sure take your time
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> i can have JaneW test the package tommorow
<jsgotangco> heh
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> it's a bit chaotic here, because Mark is here, and as a local celeb things are a bit manic
<ogra> lol
<ogra> hey, isnt it his own office ? 
<ogra> employees should be used to their boss *g*
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> how influential is mark to the overall SA scene?
<jsgotangco> VERY?
<ogra> sure :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes very
<JaneW> jsgotangco: he couldn't walk down the street without being stopped
<jsgotangco> wow
<shaga> :)
<JaneW> ogra: it;s not the employees that are the problem is the other people, and all the hype that is here
<shaga> so whos he then?
<jsgotangco> so he has bodyguards when in SA?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I don;t think so, I think he just keeps a low profile
<jsgotangco> JaneW: that's nice to know
<jsgotangco> but his face is very familar nowadays so...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I would say that the list of well known SA celebs includes Madiba, Charlize and Mark...
<jsgotangco> mmm charlize
<JaneW> ogra: I asked about CDs
<ogra> adn ? 
<ogra> and
<jsgotangco> any luck?
<JaneW> ogra: new answer is we can make a few hundred, and we have to arrange it ourselves
<jsgotangco> arrange what?
<JaneW> ogra: still don;t know what to do about packaging...
<ogra> ok... lets do it post release then
<jsgotangco> yeah
<JaneW> ogra: yes, let's get through the release and then try to make a plan
<JaneW> at least it is something
<ogra> a simple paper hardcover should be enough...
<ogra> like kubuntu has them
<jsgotangco> who did that? amu?
<jsgotangco> or riddel
<shaga> masochists gui=kde :D
<jsgotangco> shaga: shhhh
<shaga> ;)
<jsgotangco> i remember ogra giving me dagger looks during udu because i was using kde
<jsgotangco> hehe
<ogra> ;)
<shaga> hehe
<shaga> not for nothing tho, heh
<JaneW> ogra: I haven't actually seen a Kubuntu CD
<jsgotangco> its a blue disc with the 3 dragons
<JaneW> jsgotangco: is there an image somewhere?
<jsgotangco> hmmmm
<shaga> dragons, wow!
<shaga> they shouldn't be cute tho 
<jsgotangco> let me find that
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> i couldn't find it
<jsgotangco> i'll just brb later and have dinner first
<Zaheer> hello :)
<Zaheer> what version of ubuntu is edubuntu based on?
<Zaheer> well the preview at least
<ogra> on the preview indeed :)
<Zaheer> sorry i see now its 5.10
<Zaheer> my bad
<Zaheer> thats breezy right?
<shaga> yap
<ogra> Zaheer, a daily edubuntu is always identical with a breezy daily... (modulo the edubuntu addons)
<Zaheer> cool cause i wanted to DL breezy... would be abit silly if i already have edubuntu :D
<ogra> yup
<ogra> to install breezy from the CD, do a "server" install and just put ubuntu-desktop on top ;) 
<Zaheer> is there anything specific that i can help with?
<ogra> testing,testing, testing...
<ogra> find the evil bugs ;)
<Zaheer> :D  i found one y/day with the terminal server client.
<ogra> one thats not known yet ? 
<Zaheer> dunno... where do i check?
<ogra> bugzilla, look for ltsp
<ogra> you could also describe it, i know all known ltsp bugs ;)
<Zaheer> ok firstly i installed edubuntu as a workstation,i can terminal serve to windows pc but when i close it down with the little "x" i get an error message.
<Zaheer> give me 5 secs to get the extact message for.
<ogra> the workstation version has no ltsp functions at all
<Zaheer> its not ltsp it the actuall terminal server client that comes with edubuntu.
<ogra> err, what else ? 
<Zaheer> ok the message : "NOT IMPLEMENTED : System pointer message 0xf00"
<Zaheer> mouse related i think
<ogra> no idea what you are using there ? 
<ogra> what is that what you use as client ?
<Zaheer> i get to the application by clicking on the following menus Applications -> Internet -> Terminal Server Client
<ogra> ahhhh
<Zaheer> :)
<ogra> ok, that has nothing to do with edubuntu
<Zaheer> oh ok.
<ogra> file a bug in bugzilla agains tsclient so we can get it fixed in ubuntu ;)
<Zaheer> okie dokie :D
<Zaheer> whats the address to post bugs?
<JaneW> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/
<Zaheer> thanks
<wmaulik> ogra: hi olliver, you here?
<wmaulik> this is jelkner writing as one of my students
<wmaulik> anybody here?
<wmaulik> JaneW: hi Jane, are you here?
<JaneW> wmaulik: hello, yes
<JaneW> wmaulik:  hi Jeff
<ogra> wmaulik, soryy, give me a minute... i'm afk for a moment
<wmaulik> here is the situation with which i need help
<wmaulik> we have encountered a bug in edubuntu
<wmaulik> and we wanted to report it
<wmaulik> Writesh, the student i am loggin in as, volunteered to report the bug himself
<wmaulik> which i thought was great
<wmaulik> so he created a launchpad account
<JaneW>  https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/
<JaneW> great
<wmaulik> we want to use malone
<wmaulik> if that is ok
<JaneW> think so...
<wmaulik> i don't want too many different ways to do things
<wmaulik> launchpad is looking better all the time
<JaneW> I think they are running in parallel atm
<JaneW> nod
<wmaulik> i call it "software development for human beings" ;-)
<ogra> wmaulik, please use buzilla, malone is only for universe packges
<ogra> nobody of the main devs looks in launchpad yet
<wmaulik> ogra: when will that change?
<wmaulik> it is not the best situation
<wmaulik> i want to grow the edubuntu users, testers, etc group
<ogra> if malone is ready its lacking a lot of features
<wmaulik> and encourage people to report bugs
<wmaulik> most new users don't know whether something is in universe or not
<wmaulik> and they shouldn't have to
<ogra> but i suspect sabdfl will force us to use it for main after release
<ogra> everything installed in edubuntu is in main
<wmaulik> ok
<ogra> only stuff you installed additionally can be from niverse
<wmaulik> if Writesh created a launchpad account, can he use bugzilla?
<ogra> i'm not sure if they already work together this deep.... try it
<wmaulik> ok, i've gotta run
<ogra> bye and thanks...
<wmaulik> writesh left already to go to his next class
<wmaulik> now i've got to teach mine ;-)
<ogra> :)
<wmaulik> we'll try bugzilla tomorrow
<ogra> ok
<wmaulik> but i have to say that if it is easy we can to these things
<wmaulik> if it is not we can't
<wmaulik> thanks!
<wmaulik> bye
<ogra> then mail me about the bugs
<wmaulik> ok, thanks
<ogra> so i can forward them to bugzilla to assign them the right people
<JaneW> sigh
<JaneW> do flint or jelkner ever stay for longer than 10 mins?
<Zaheer> highvoltage - why so quiet :)
<highvoltage> Zaheer: very busy :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: watching idols *duck*
<highvoltage> JaneW: i wasn't *really* watching, I just came buy because vicki said we must :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: nod, I was also only there for 5 mins or so...
<JaneW> highvoltage: it's too cold to stand out there for long
<highvoltage> yep. my word i'm tired. i ordered an dsl line from telkom today. took 45 mins.
<highvoltage> the wireless connection in my area is just too dodgy.
<JaneW> highvoltage: pity, but our ADSL ahs been good, except for the intl problems, but that had nothing to do with ADSL...
<highvoltage> i think adsl is the best option locally. they just didn't have it in my area when i moved there (telkom didn't even have phone lines there).
<highvoltage> Zaheer: so, how are things?
<JaneW> highvoltage: where do you live? in the karoo? ;)
<highvoltage> hehe. new area just outside bellville and kuils river (next to bottelary).
<JaneW> highvoltage: ok, I got married near there (one of the wine farms)
<highvoltage> where do you live at the moment?
<JaneW> Rondebosch
<Zaheer> cool man, looking forward to sysadmin classes starting ;)
<Zaheer> any word on the venue yet?
<JaneW> Zaheer: lol, I read that as SysAdmin clashes - I thought there was a battle of the SysAdmins or something ;)
<Zaheer> he he :D
<highvoltage> Zaheer: it's at pentech. i'm getting the maps tomorrow, will forward on.
<Zaheer> im glad to see there a quite a few cape townians around :)
<highvoltage> Zaheer: ah, so you know who i am now ;)
<Zaheer> yes i do :D .. you had me worried for a while!
<Zaheer> how'd you know it was me tho' or did you take a guess?
<Zaheer> orgra : posted the bug in bugzilla, thanks :)
<highvoltage> Zaheer: you use telkom adsl, so i know you're local, and the zahedoll kind of gave it away.
<Zaheer> aaahhh cunning!!!  i didnt even see that.
<highvoltage> ok. bye!
<Zaheer> anyways guys have a good one! see ya
<ogra> hi
<gilv> hi
<ogra> gilv, so if you got any questions regarding edubuntu feel free to ask anytime :)
<JessicaX^> Heya
<JessicaX^> Been a while since i was in here
<JessicaX^> How is everything
<JessicaX^> Like the new logo, btw
<JessicaX^> By the way ; are the projects under way.. or still in planning?
<shaga> I installed just hoary-server, upgraded to hoary, then added edubuntu-desktop
<shaga> smooth as silk ;)
<JessicaX^> eh?
<shaga> s/second hoary/breezy
<shaga> I think they are doing fine with edubuntu
<shaga> at least from the looks
<JessicaX^> Eh?????
<JessicaX^> I didnt say they weren't
<JessicaX^> o.O
<shaga> you asked how is everything
<shaga> I just said that seems fine for them ;)
<shaga> don't pick on my words so easily :)
<JessicaX^> I wasn't
<shaga> hehe
<JessicaX^> I was just wondering what the hell you're talking about oOl
<JessicaX^> Projects as in
<JessicaX^> "what WILL be in edubuntu"
<JessicaX^> " What's going to be in Edubuntu?"
<shaga> at least gnome-screensaver instead of x-s-s :p
<ogra> nooo
<shaga> huh
<ogra> it was dropped a week ago
<JessicaX^> ehh?
<JessicaX^> did i say xss?
<ogra> (sorry i'm in a meeting)
<JessicaX^> *thin air picking*
<shaga> I'll just stay quiet :D
<JessicaX^> I dont know what the hell you're talkjing about XD
<JessicaX^> I said
<JessicaX^> "What projects"
<JessicaX^> And you're like ; "YA IM USING GNOME-SCREENSAVER"
<JessicaX^> o__O
<JessicaX^> "Nice Day today eh!"
<JessicaX^> "Yeah, i like banana boats"
<shaga> *sights*
<ogra> JessicaX^, kdeedu, gcompris, schooltool, the new and shiny ltsp classroom server we developed, moodle (hopefully, its currently a bit buggy)
<JessicaX^> sounds nice
<ogra> coulorful artwork and icons...
<JessicaX^> Still using GNOME, right?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but with kde bits...
<ogra> kdeedu has no counterpart on the gnome side yet
<JessicaX^> iono, i tried using kubuntu
<JessicaX^> After ubuntu
<JessicaX^> and kubuntu ran faster
<JessicaX^> o.O
<ogra> i never tried kubuntu...
<ogra> :)
<ogra> but i was told by several people that kde is a lot slower via ltsp... which is our main app...
<JessicaX^> Hmm
<JessicaX^> Yeah, but iono
<ogra> i'll test that for next release
<JessicaX^> I think KDE looks more unified.. I dont like Epiphany
<ogra> i dont like KDE ;)
<JessicaX^> Obviously
<JessicaX^> :P
<ogra> way to cluttered
<JessicaX^> Well, it is out of the box
<JessicaX^> But gnome is completely the opposite
<JessicaX^> Nice to get up and running, but iono
<ogra> gnome is totally out of te box :)
<JessicaX^> o_O
<ogra> but we could discuss that endless... lets drop it
<JessicaX^> I know, i know
<ogra> and i have to attend the meeting in #ubuntu-meeting :)
<JessicaX^> :P
<JessicaX^> you should use TuX :)
<JessicaX^> Very sexy indeed
<ogra> ??
<JessicaX^> Kernel HTTPd
<ogra> yes, but why ? people are familiar with apache :)
<magnon> kernelspace httpd makes me shudder
<JessicaX^> :D
<JessicaX^> Put IIS on there then ;)
<JessicaX^> Some schools in UK kiss that 
<shaga> hehe
<JessicaX^> TuX uses Apache as a secondary webserver
<magnon> again
<magnon> why, when you have apache?
<magnon> the whole concept of putting http serving in kernel land is crazy
<JessicaX^> Not really
<magnon> if you say so. ;)
<JessicaX^> Apache is nice, but there are HTTPd's that are faster than it
<JessicaX^> Well, i do ;)
<JessicaX^> Ask Igno Molnar why he made one
<JessicaX^> remember him? :P
<JessicaX^> Ingo :/
<magnon> yes.
<ogra> did he run it on a ltsp server with 25 thin clients that started openpffice simultaiously ? 
<JessicaX^>  Ingo Molnar has been contributing to Linux kernel development since 1995 with an impressive list of accomplishments. Most recently his O(1) scheduler was merged into the 2.5 development kernel
<JessicaX^> Not that i recall
<JessicaX^> But that scheduler is uber clever
<magnon> just because I love his scheduler doesn't mean that I like kernelspace http-serving
<JessicaX^> :P
<JessicaX^> Have you used it?
<magnon> I tried it a long time ago
<magnon> and never touched it again
<magnon> it scares me
<shaga> :D
<JessicaX^> :P
<JessicaX^> I love it
<shaga> couldn't live without it I assume? ;)
<JessicaX^> Not really
<JessicaX^> It's good
<JessicaX^> but not that good
<JessicaX^> Linux yes, that no
<shaga> :)
<JessicaX^> Hmm, would i be able to make a KDE based version of edubuntu?
<JessicaX^> Or a strictly dinge-o-rama ? :/
<JessicaX^> Also magnon
<JessicaX^> http://slashdot.org/articles/00/07/20/1440204.shtml
<JessicaX^> Enjoy :)
<shaga> you are a fan or something?
<shaga> :D
<JessicaX^> I like clever things :)
<shaga> hehe
<shaga> perhaps too clever? ;)
<JessicaX^> Not really
<JessicaX^> I modify everything 
<JessicaX^> To exactly how i like it
<shaga> agreed
<JessicaX^> And then, once i've played, i look at what everyone else wants, strike a compromise, make it, sell and be happy
<magnon> it's really not that clever.
<magnon> it's putting something in kernel-land that SHOULD NOT be there
<magnon> better when it works pretty close to that from the start :P
<JessicaX^> Rofl
<JessicaX^> Nah
<JessicaX^> Kernel land :P
<shaga> I agree with magnon about kernel land
<shaga> :p
<JessicaX^> It handles file transfers anyway, why should it be coupled with that which handles files
<shaga> why to implement?
<shaga> I don't see any reasons
<JessicaX^> I agree with the creator, tbh
<JessicaX^> " The biggest advantage i see is to have encapsulation, security and performance available to dynamic web applications *at the same time*"
<magnon> security + kernel land just doesn't fit normal security theory for me
<JessicaX^> :P
<shaga> :D
<JessicaX^> So, the kernel is insecure?
<shaga> I love that "kernel land"
<shaga> by browsing files on the web through kernel he meant I think
<JessicaX^> Not really
<shaga> it's too close to the core
<JessicaX^> HTTPd isnt about browsing
<shaga> damned, not too close, it's in the core
<shaga> nope, not really.. but you got my point I assume?
<JessicaX^> Yeah
<magnon> JessicaX^: it just means that if there first is a security breach, it's more fatal
<JessicaX^> But then again, if you got breached with apache running as root, then you'd have the same level of problems
<JessicaX^> The worst they can do is really lock you out or format everything
<magnon> then why not run a lightweight http server in user land? :)
<shaga> fatal.. I'd call it devastating
<shaga> :p
<JessicaX^> :P
<JessicaX^> Like i say
<JessicaX^> If you code securely
<magnon> ...there will always be a bug.
<JessicaX^> So, the same of edubuntu, then
<JessicaX^> Or is that exempt of these criticisms
<JessicaX^> ?
<shaga> yeah, everybody always try to code securely.. but even in the mouse cursor in windows, there is bug with security flaws :D
<JessicaX^> You're using windows as an example o.O
<shaga> I just used as an example for a bug, it's good base for flaws :D
<JessicaX^> lol Usually, it's like "even the best can have problems" 
<JessicaX^> Not
<JessicaX^> "windows has problems"
<JessicaX^> :P
<shaga> hehe, yeah
<JessicaX^> Well, i'm building a distro up right now
<JessicaX^> :/
<shaga> I use most extraordinary ways to use examples
<shaga> people are always laughing at me about it :)
<JessicaX^> Heh
<JessicaX^> I never use windows as a good example
<shaga> I used as a worst
<JessicaX^> Also - does edubuntu have a page for schools perhaps wanting to change to Linux? eg - benefits?
<JessicaX^> If not, i could make one, i used to have to do presentations along the same lines all the time
<ogra> JessicaX^, we have a wiki, feel free to make a page :)
<JessicaX^> err
<JessicaX^> I'll type it as a document
<magnon> ogra: do we have anything _else_ than a wiki? ;)O
<ogra> we'll have a website before release... 
<JessicaX^> Well, i could make a website for you
<JessicaX^> I'm not brilliant with designs, but i "inspire" myself off template sites ;)
<ogra> and a plone cms was planned, but i'm not sure highvoltage has come around to do it in time
<JessicaX^> Or with HTML or CSS o.O
<JessicaX^> I can make it in Drupal
<ogra> *shudder
<magnon> eek
<JessicaX^> Oh geezus
<ogra> i'd like to avoid php
<magnon> I think ubuntu has some good infrastructure already
<JessicaX^> You don't like drupal? :/
<JessicaX^> rofl isnt Moodle PHP
<JessicaX^> ;)
<ogra> i dont like php
<JessicaX^> you don't like much
<JessicaX^> :/
<magnon> ogra: as long as it's php5, I'd be fine
<ogra> i dont use moodle, i just listened to our users ;)
<JessicaX^> It is php5
<JessicaX^> ogra
<JessicaX^> Thank geebus for that
<JessicaX^> Otherwise it'
<magnon> it isn't started up as php5
<JessicaX^> it would probably be just a non-graphical boot
<JessicaX^> :/
<ogra> and i build a distro, i#m not the guy who does the web stuff... only a poor developer builing a CD here :)
<JessicaX^> I like skirts, and shopping, but it doesnt mean everyone else does
<JessicaX^> :P
* ogra likes skirts... if he doesnt need to wear them ;)
<JessicaX^> I wear them =)
<shaga> I love skirts on girls as well
<JessicaX^> but, like i say
<magnon> pff, girls are overrated
<ogra> lol
* magnon should start running
<shaga> time for some pizza and the 4400 episode
<JessicaX^> I like pink and girly stuff, and there's stuff i know i like, but it doesnt mean everyone else will love them because i do
<shaga> :D
<shaga> pink
<shaga> she said pink
<JessicaX^> hint hint hint
<magnon> and that does NOT mean edubuntu should have a default pink theme
<shaga> anyway, off I go :) 
<JessicaX^> Didnt say it should
<ogra> JessicaX^, we have a server infrastructure where everything is python based already... everything else generates extra effort...
<JessicaX^> Go with the flow of the people ;)
<JessicaX^> Just saying, every school i spoke to - chose KDE
<ogra> adding php stuff would mean we'd need extra servers etc
<JessicaX^> Not really, i would have hosted it
<JessicaX^> But i cant be bothered now you've ranted :P
<ogra> we'd like to hots it in our datacenter :)
<JessicaX^> Congrats
<ogra> and the decision for gnome was not my personal decision we had a 4 day summit with lots of people and discussed apps and stuff to an end
<magnon> gnome was a very wise decision
<JessicaX^> :)
<JessicaX^> Sure sure
<magnon> if it was KDE I'd be using fc or even nld and still be unhappy
<ogra> its simply that the support in ubuntu for gnome is bigger, we have a lot more developers wotrking on gnome stuff and only one for kde
<JessicaX^> Well, thats fair enough
<ogra> edubuntu is 90% ubuntu...
<JessicaX^> But, when i worked at doing this kinda thing for money
<ogra> i cant do everything alone ;)
<JessicaX^> A lot of the schools we spoke to said KDE over Gnome, or other WM's
<ogra> the demand for a "like ubuntu" system in africa and southamerica is very high... that includes gnome
<JessicaX^> hm
<magnon> JessicaX^: Oh, easy problem. "This is ubuntu, like it?" "yes" "ok."
<linescanner> We have the same here in the UK.  Most we have shown prefer KDE
<JessicaX^> "this is ubuntu like it.. er.. well, actually" "tough shit"
<JessicaX^> linescanner: I worked in the UK with it
<JessicaX^> Even the LEA we spoke to said KDE just looked a lot cleaner than Gnome, and fluxbox
<magnon> if you say "gnome is simple and streamlined, whereas kde has too much cruft", they'd choose gnome
<ogra> its no probem to install kde  in edubuntu its just not the default install...
<JessicaX^> Not really
<magnon> so it's a matter of how you say it :P
<JessicaX^> We didnt force KDE
<linescanner> Which LEA ?
<JessicaX^> Thats just absolutely the most idiotic thing possible
<JessicaX^> The North Yorkshire, and the Cheshire
<linescanner> Did you get anywhere with them ?
<magnon> I force GNOME and can't see anything wrong with it
<magnon> since it's what I support. :P
<JessicaX^> Forcing is retarded
<magnon> no
<JessicaX^> I didnt force, i let them choose
<ogra> we too
<magnon> choosing a stable system that you can support is nonretarded
<magnon> giving too many options which creates more work for _you_ in the end, is retarded.
<JessicaX^> You dont go to a school and say YOU HAVE TO HAVE UBUNTU or we wont support you
<ogra> and since the summit was in london, there were a lot british teachers :)
<JessicaX^> Like it or not , it's similar to what Microsoft does
<magnon> well, actually, we do
<JessicaX^> Not really
<JessicaX^> Because we could work with either
<magnon> it's not, because they can always go wherever they want
<JessicaX^> I didnt want to force them
<magnon> I couldn't 
<magnon> I know jack about KDE
<JessicaX^> because it's their choice
<JessicaX^> If they didnt want it, i didnt say "oh well, up yours"
<JessicaX^> or "Oh, not KDE?? GRRR"
<magnon> I would. :D
<JessicaX^> Then you're an idiot
<magnon> thanks
<JessicaX^> With Schools, you have to give choice
<magnon> why?
<magnon> why more choice to them than to anyone else?
<JessicaX^> Otherwise they just think you're trying to shove it down their throats
<linescanner> The desktop aint the issue though it is what you do with it
<magnon> because THEY should sacrifice support over others?
<JessicaX^> magnon
<ogra> JessicaX^, thast exactly what we did... we invited interested eachers of schools wanting to adopt edubuntu what ever it should be and followed their choices
<magnon> are businesses more important?
<JessicaX^> magnon
<JessicaX^> What the hell are you talking about
<JessicaX^> i'm on about the look and feel
<JessicaX^> We had 4 laptops
<JessicaX^> And we let them and CHILDREN
<JessicaX^> from ages of 5 - 16
<JessicaX^> Look around them
<magnon> JessicaX^: that if you run support, you need to go with a system and support it the way YOU can, if you don't, you're going to use more resources on it, and that heightens prices.
<JessicaX^> On gnome, even the LEA said as default it looks too dark
<JessicaX^> well, like said
<JessicaX^> I'd help with a KDE port of it
<linescanner> JessicaX you working in schools still ?
<JessicaX^> I think choice is important, otherwise we'd all be using windows
<JessicaX^> linescanner, no i left
<JessicaX^> But, i'm helping a friend re-start the business
<magnon> ah well, my business is external of schools and I work with both schools and SMBs
<magnon> so, no choice.
<magnon> the choice is "find another vendor", which is entirely their choice, of course.
<JessicaX^> But like i said, when we spoke with a phsychology lecturer
<JessicaX^> And other related professionals
<linescanner> JessicaX you seen what we do at Cutter ?
<JessicaX^> they said about colour schemes, and how crucial they are to children of young ages
<JessicaX^> Cutter?
<linescanner> www.cutterproject.co.uk
<JessicaX^> I heard of that
<ogra> JessicaX^, have you even seen edubuntus gnome desktop yet ? 
<linescanner> Linux thin client for schools
<JessicaX^> There are no Screenshots from what i can see
<ogra> nope
<ogra> install it ;) 
<ogra> help testing ;) 
<JessicaX^> Err
<ogra> we'll release screenshots before release
<linescanner> Ogra: you get anywhere with the bootig issue ?
<linescanner> booting even
<ogra> linescanner, the mptscsi stuff ? 
<linescanner> no the thins looping at nfs
<JessicaX^> Hehe, suse
<ogra> linescanner, nope, some people are trying to track it now....
<JessicaX^> Ahh, linescanner
<JessicaX^> Good work on the cutter project
<JessicaX^> :)_
<linescanner> Thanks
<JessicaX^> I watch Working lunch sometimes
<JessicaX^> :)
<linescanner> Cool.  The Deputy head there is turning into a media star :)
<JessicaX^> downloading the coverage of it now :D
<linescanner> we are looking for more people to push it
<JessicaX^> I'd be happy to help :)
<linescanner> drop me an email
<JessicaX^> Sure
<JessicaX^> i'd need the email :P
<linescanner> andy.trevor@cutterproject.co.uk
<JessicaX^> :) Okay, will do
<linescanner> my priv is blocked at the mo
<JessicaX^> Ah, righty
<JessicaX^> Unregistred user?
<linescanner> yeah, keep meaning to sort it out
<JessicaX^> lol
<linescanner> :)
<JessicaX^> Can't wait to watch this :)
<JessicaX^> I love it when linux gets mentioned on television
<linescanner> ogra: re mptscsi stuff I need to put some time aside this week to get some feed back to you guys
<linescanner> JessicaX :)
<JessicaX^> hm? :>
<ogra> linescanner, try to get jbailey directly, we have other sun fire users, would be nice if that could be solved
<JessicaX^> Holy mackkarel
<JessicaX^> mackarel
<JessicaX^> 4000+ for Windows
<JessicaX^> Geebus
<rejden> *eeek*
#edubuntu 2006-09-25
<Fegis> is it allowed to sell edubuntu-cd:s?
<LaserJock> I wouldn't see why not
<Fegis> okej, I heard somewhere that it wasn't allowed somehow...
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> well I don't know for sure
* TeePOG greets everyone
<cbx33> gooooooooooood morning
<TeePOG> mmm, someone got it all this morning
<TeePOG> hi cbx33, how are you?
<cbx33> I'm goo TeePOG how are you
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<TeePOG> goo? i also feel gooey this morning
<TeePOG> ^.^
<cbx33> heheh
<TeePOG> is everybody using xchat here?
<cbx33> nope
<TeePOG> oh yes, and bitchx of course...
<TeePOG> just wondering
<cbx33> cgi-irc here
<cbx33> some use irssi
<TeePOG> ahh ok
<TeePOG> how does cgi-irc work? never used it
<cbx33> it's just a web based irc interface
<TeePOG> ok... no Java?
<TeePOG> that's the usual way
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> maybe
<TeePOG> that's cool... wait, cgi is part of php innit? /me hopes his ignorance isn't showing
<cbx33> no cgi is somthing different
<TeePOG> ah
<cbx33> but they are similar
<cbx33> check out wikipedia ;)
<cbx33> I don;t know the diff.....just that I use PHP
<cbx33> and cgi is different
<TeePOG> will do... getting coffee first, it's ready :-D
<TeePOG> ping cbx33
<TeePOG> i have a question about IRC itself... this might be a weird question, but can i get the output from /list on this server, and grep inside it?
<TeePOG> morning spacey
<spacey> hi 
<TeePOG> how goes it on this public holiday?
<EmxBA> yes, here
<juliux> morning EmxBA 
<EmxBA> juliux: oh, hi!
<EmxBA> how's ubuntu.juliux.de? have i done something wrong? bandwidth? :D
<juliux> EmxBA, everything is fine, i have 1,5GB traffic per month, and i have 40GB traffic for free
<cbx33> hey EmxBA 
<EmxBA> juliux: ah, can you give me webalizer stats?
<EmxBA> hi cbx33
<juliux> EmxBA, stats.juliux.de/ubuntu
<EmxBA> ok
<cbx33> join #ubuntu-devel
<ogra> cbx33, pong
<cbx33> ogra: hi dude
<cbx33> 2 questions
<ogra> shoot
<cbx33> 1) should I add myself to the launchpad group for ubuntu-dev? 
<cbx33> is that what I need to do for tomorrow
<ogra> yes
<ogra> and have your wikipage up to date with your contributions
<cbx33> ok... will do....
<cbx33> will you and rodarvus be there :S
<ogra> likely
<ogra> dunno about rodarvus, i'm usually there
<cbx33> I have also noticed a slight error in the scp package.... :( - it's to do with the mandatory gconf settings - I'm working up the fix now
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> Mithrandir is talking about freezing main and goign to manual approval mode
<ogra> keep it as small as possible
<cbx33> ogra: it is literally a typo
<cbx33> user needs to be replaced with user/" + user +"
<ogra> thats ok, its only affecting edubuntu we'll get such things easily through
<cbx33> ok, the last one is a change which I asked to be added to gconf
<ogra> i also have to work on the usplash graphics handling, something is wrong there
<cbx33> it's so that our mandatory settings are piccked up
<cbx33> seb128 said he was ok with it....and I had opened a bug
<cbx33> it seems to have gotten lost somethwer
<ogra> but apart from that our CD should have proper beta quality after the new debina-installer has built
<ogra> i did various test installs on the weekend
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> I'm doing one now as we speak
<cbx33> and my new machine is ready to be battered with test installs ;)
<ogra> if you have opened a bug, mark it with the edgy beta milestone
<ogra> so it shows up on the beta critical buglist
<cbx33> well that's the thing...the bug doesn't see m to be there
<cbx33> so I'll have to open it up again....but I will do that 
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> once edubuntu is installed I can create the fix
<cbx33> ogra: during the install d-i popped up and mentioned it couldn't find any interfaces and that I had to link to a static one after the install was completed
<cbx33> but it then went on to ask me for proxy informaiton and appeared to scan the mirrors fine
<ogra> cbx33, we require two NICs for an ltsp install now 
<cbx33> ah
<ogra> as the Testing page (topic) mentions 
<cbx33> sorry :(
<ogra> if you only have one, it notifies you that somehint might go wrong if you dont touch your dhcp settings
<ogra> *something
<cbx33> I got a message about no interfaces available
<cbx33> and that I had to link to a static device
<ogra> yes ...
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> the dhcp server needs a static device indeed
<ogra> since you seem to only have one in that machine it warns you that the dhcp server cant be configured automatically
<cbx33> ah right
<cbx33> thanks ogra 
<cbx33> how many knot releases will we have this time?
<ogra> if you have 3 (like me) it gives you a list to select the one for the thin client network
<ogra> knots are done
<cbx33> whaaaA?
<cbx33> we had 7 last time
<ogra> we had 6 months last time
<ogra> instead of 4
<cbx33> so after this is it beta
<cbx33> and the release?
<ogra> in three days
<ogra> (beta)
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
<cbx33> ogra: installer seems fast
<cbx33> how do updates aftyer that period work?
<ogra> you mean after release ? 
<cbx33> o after beta
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> after release is security only isn't it?
<cbx33> or only critical bugs
<ogra> every fix will be reviewed 
<ogra> no
<cbx33> much like pitti did for main inclusion?
<ogra> CD critical bugs for example ...
<TeePOG> wb gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> ty TeePOG 
<cbx33> bloody staff putting their entire music collection on their laptops.....taken me 2 hours and 6Gig so far grrrrrrrrrrrr
<TeePOG> just delete it, it's probably illegal anyway
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> up to 7 Gb
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: dumb question heading your way
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: can a ppc thin client boot to an i386 ltsp server?
<rodarvus> if with 'boot' you only mean load the kernel from, then yes
<rodarvus> (and mount filesystems, etc)
<rodarvus> generally speaking, yes (definitive answer :) )
<rodarvus> you just need to be careful not to run any server binaries on the thin client, of course
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: heh thats like impossible
<rodarvus> yeah :)
<jsgotangco> i mean if you have a ppc client, obviously the desktop binaries won't run?
* jsgotangco read about this before but can't recall duh!
<highvoltage> what do you mean by 'desktop binaries'?
<highvoltage> would that be the binaries outside of the chroot?
<rodarvus> they will run if you you use a remote session (such as xdmcp)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: would the chroot have the appropriate binaries right?
<rodarvus> but not if your session is local to the thin client
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yes
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i mean have an i386 server, serve a ppc chroot
<highvoltage> there is a wiki page about it, I've forgotten where it is, but since dapper you can easily install PPC, amd64, or i386 chroots if the main system is something else
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yes, you can do that
<jsgotangco> yeah that's what im looking for
* jsgotangco is looking for the magic one-liner command
<rodarvus> one liner? :)
<rodarvus> think of a huge, monstruous, gigantic line
<jsgotangco> lol
<highvoltage> I *think* this is the wiki page I was looking for:
<highvoltage> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup
* jsgotangco hugs highvoltage
<highvoltage> sorry, I think that's outdated documentation
<highvoltage> it will work, but I think there is something easier now, that's closer to a one-liner
<highvoltage> I haven't done it yet, since everyhing I work with is i386, which is why I'm not quite sure :/
<jsgotangco> i will to catch uncle jim or uncle scott later
<highvoltage> good idea :)
<rodarvus> brb
<TeePOG> hi again
<lguerra> hi
<lguerra> jsgotangco, i was speaking with mhz about the event that is going to carry out in Pereira and I recommend me that spoke with Richard, your you have the nick of the or its mail?  
<jsgotangco> lguerra: its RichEd
<lguerra> ok tks, 
<lguerra> jsgotangco: RichEd-1 = RichEd
<jsgotangco> yes he's probably away at the moment though
<lguerra> jsgotangco: Thanks, please recalls to mention the event in the EC for the official support, and that business about the recognition of the girls of the school in which I work.  
<jsgotangco> lguerra: yes, can you send me an email reminder anytime jgotangco@ubuntu.com so i could work in on my todo list
<lguerra> jsgotangco: ok. That you need that write you in the mail? or alone with mentioning you recall?
<pygi> hey ho bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi pygi
<jsgotangco> lguerra: just send what you need from us and I will relay it accordingly to the appropriate people
<lguerra> jsgotangco: mail toc toc :D
<jsgotangco> lguerra: i couldn't make much of the email you sent (don't worry about it), but can you also resend that in spanish? I can read a bit of spanish
<lguerra> ok
<lguerra> jsgotangco: mucho mejor para mi 
<jsgotangco> si bonito mucho
<jsgotangco> wahaha
<jsgotangco> there goes my spansih
* Yagisan waves
<pygi> Yagisan: ?! :)
<Yagisan> any edgy users here ? - I'm trying to work out why my clients don't have a working mouse
<ogra> ps2 ? usb ? 
<Yagisan> ps2
<Yagisan> how have you been ogra ? heard you saw the ltsp guys
<ogra> create a rootpw, log in on the client and check if psmouse is loaded 
<ogra> and also, thats ldm, not xdmcp, right ? 
<Yagisan> ldm - yes.
<ogra> ten the only thing i can imagine is psmouse missing
<Yagisan> just did a stand ltsp-build-client --dist edgy --arch i386
<ogra> if you build on edgy you dont need --dist :)
<Yagisan> I know - but I like to specify. I should look into why that bipassed my apt-cache thouh :(
<ogra> because it uses archive.ubuntu.com unless you specify --mirror
<Yagisan> ah
<jsgotangco> ogra: dumb question, but did you do a wiki page for creating ltsp chroot for other arches?
<Yagisan> jsgotangco, which arch ?
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: say you have an i386 server with ppc clients
* Yagisan will brb - walking over to turn on the clients
<Yagisan> jsgotangco, you hit the one combo I never got going
<jsgotangco> dapper?
* jsgotangco needs dapper not edgy
<Yagisan> jsgotangco, yeah dapper.
<Yagisan> ogra, it says on boot - loading hardware drivers : failed
<Yagisan> that seems like a big fat hint to me
<lguerra> jsgotangco: toc toc mail for you
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes, it was sucked over to help.ubuntu.com before i could finish it
<ogra> Yagisan, that doesnt look like your chroot built ok ...
<ogra> additionally there shouldnt be any text at all ...
<jsgotangco> ogra: i was thinking its https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup but it doesn't seem complete at all
<ogra> new usplash has no text output
<Yagisan> ogra, built it litterally 10 minutes ago
<ogra> jsgotangco, thats what i just said :)
<Yagisan> ogra, it's trying to load modules from 2.6.15
<Yagisan> but I don't have that kernel ...
<ogra> thats wrong
<Yagisan> (amd64 server)
<ogra> and it finished with a "LTSP client installation completed successfully" ??
<Yagisan> yep
<ogra> that should have been the ast message you see in the terminal you built it in
<ogra> weird ...
<Yagisan> `/opt/ltsp/i386/boot/nbi.img' -> `/var/lib/tftpboot//ltsp/i386/nbi.img'
<Yagisan> `/opt/ltsp/i386/boot/nbi.img-2.6.17-9-386' -> `/var/lib/tftpboot//ltsp/i386/nbi.img-2.6.17-9-386'
<Yagisan> info: LTSP client installation completed successfully
<ogra> and you saw it installing a kernel ? 
<Yagisan> last 3 lines from building it ^^
<Yagisan> yep
<ogra> right
<ogra> and you didnt install on top of an old chroot ?
<Yagisan> no
<Yagisan> I'll blow it away again
<Yagisan> --mirror to piint to my local right ?
<ogra> i wonder where it gets the idea about 2.6.15 from
<ogra> yes
<ogra> oooh
<ogra> dont wipe it
<ogra> fix your dhcpd.conf ... to point to /ltsp/i386 ;)
<ogra> ltsp-server should have asked you if you want to replace it ...
<ogra> (its a conffile)
<ogra> filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0"
<ogra> or filename "/ltsp/i386/nbi.img";
<ogra> as you like (we support etherboot natively now)
<Yagisan> o_O
<Yagisan> oh well - its wiped now
<ogra> to sad
<Yagisan> ogra, it's cached
<Yagisan> just the unpack time
<ogra> but from a local mirror it should only tke 10mins 
<ogra> right
* Yagisan edits dhcpd.conf
<ogra> cbx33, we'll need a proper 640x480 usplash pic ... i only scaled the indexed one (looks awful) ... afetr beta release ...
<ogra> *after
<cbx33> ogra: ok
<cbx33> this small probelm with pessulus/scp has turned into a bigger one
<ogra> i was fearing to break the color palette, thus i didnt make it rgb for scaling ...
<ogra> oh ?
<cbx33> if you set a non mandatory key - and then load the lockdown back up again
<cbx33> it is missing
<cbx33> unles.......oooh hang on
<Yagisan> ogra, I have filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0"; already in my dhcpd.conf
<cbx33> nope broken
<cbx33> if I just run sudo pessulus
<ogra> Yagisan, make that "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
<cbx33> and tick a box, close it and load it
<cbx33> the box is ticked again
<cbx33> if I do it through scp - that doesn't work
<jsgotangco> is it safe to say that we now have sabayon, pessulus and scp but scp is favored?
<cbx33> the only difference is the way in which the gconf engine is initialised
<cbx33> it sets the keys fine
<cbx33> but it doesn't bloody read them when I re-load the lockdown
<cbx33> it's stupid
<cbx33> I can't undersstand it
<cbx33> I'm going to go home now and try to figure it out in my head
<cbx33> I'm really really so sorry guys
<cbx33> I'll get to the bottom of it
<cbx33> I promise
<cbx33> they are both using the get_bool
<cbx33> both structures look identical
<cbx33> except one was created using one gcon_get_default....and the other a different way
<cbx33> I'm going to start punching the monitor in a minute
<cbx33> heheh
<Yagisan> thank you ogra - that worked. They can log in now. now to add Japanese to the language options, and hopefully make them all distcc nodes
<ogra> heh, you and your japanese :)
<pygi> ogra: ;)
<Yagisan> ogra, it's essential to my health and well being
<Yagisan> ogra, just install the lang packs in the chroot right ?
<ogra> should work ...
<Yagisan> famous last words ?
<Yagisan> thats what I said 3 days ago when I decided to upgrade to edgy ogra
<pygi> Yagisan: ^_^
<jsgotangco> lguerra: ok i understand now what you meant on recognition of the girls in school
<lguerra> jsgotangco: you recall that I told you that some girls of the school where I work they had participated actively in the translation, that serious interesting to do them a recognition on the part of Edubuntu, are 15-year-old girls and serious very motivating for them this
<jsgotangco> yes
<lguerra> Your you said that were going to mention it in EC to see the feasibility to do some certificates or a letter or something, so that they conserve.  I would be able them to print to deliver them to him in a special act.  
<lguerra> jsgotangco: pardon, I did not read well what you told me, all this was not necessary: (
<cbx33> I can't see what's wrong with that code
<cbx33> and I can't check it from here either
<cbx33> it's very very odd
<cbx33> ogra: can you confirm
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> i'm busy with the CDs
<cbx33> just so that I can rule out my crazy machine
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> np
<cbx33> how is that going?
<ogra> what exactly should i do ? 
<cbx33> heh, if you load scp - with a client connected
<cbx33> and use lockdown
<cbx33> you should tick the boxes, but don't choose the padlocks
<cbx33> close it.  wait a few minutes and load again...you will see those boxes are no longer ticked
<cbx33> however, if you just run sudo pessulus and do the same....it will work fine
<ogra> right
<cbx33> and I cannot see the problem
<ogra> its not ticked
<cbx33> it will write the key though, if you check the xml gconf files
<ogra> well, i checked "lock screen" and i'm still able to
<cbx33> it's just not reading them in again......yet it uses exactly the same functions as it normally would
<cbx33> ogra: through pessulus, or scp?
<ogra> SCP
<cbx33> I can't understand this it was tested and tested
<cbx33> something must have changed somewhere
<cbx33> oh btw if you use mandatory keys, it works fine
<ogra> did you revert anything in a former upload ? missing bzr commit before bzr export or something
<cbx33> just to add some more strangeness
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> I diff'ed to check and it's all fine
<cbx33> don't worry....I will find the problem even if it kills me
<pygi> ogra: libburn 0.2.4 looks nice for before UDS, but I won't make any promises :)
<ogra> pygi, cool !
<ogra> i'll take that as a promise :P
<pygi> ogra: I knew it, lol :)
<ogra> :)
* ogra takes a break ... bbl
<Yagisan> so - anyone here gotten any local apps running ?
<paolob-parroquia> hi guy!
<pygi> hello paolob-parroquia 
<paolob-parroquia> I changed the ip address of the dhcp pool, all was ok, but after rebooting the server nobody can enter gnome on the clients. Should I run some more script or service? thank you
<paolob-parroquia> hi pygi 
<paolob-parroquia> hi mdz 
<paolob-parroquia> some ssh-related stuff...?
<pygi> paolob-parroquia: yup
<pygi> ltsp-update-sshkeys
<paolob-parroquia> pygi, yup? what is it?
<pygi> I think :)
<pygi> paolob-parroquia: read above :)
<paolob-parroquia> pygi, ah, ok... let me see...
<paolob-parroquia> pygi, ok, it works, thank you very much!!!!
<pygi> hello RichEd and cbx33 
<cbx33> hey pygi 
<pygi> cbx33: tried sms-ing me?
<cbx33> nope....i can do now
<pygi> oki :)
<cbx33> pygi, do we have a size for the cookbook
<pygi> wb paolob-parroquia 
<paolob-parroquia> hi ogra
<paolob-parroquia> ogra
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, what about the patch to gnome-power-manager?
<pygi> cbx33: same as all other books on Lulu. you should ask #ubuntu-docs people about size, or poke Lulu about it
<cbx33> pygi, is that th international code for your country??
<pygi> yes, it includes international code
<paolob-parroquia> pygi, do you know anything of gnome-power-manager and the patch ogra was testing?
<cbx33> hmmm didn't work
<pygi> paolob-parroquia: not much I can tell you, no, sorry
<ogra> paolob-parroquia, edgy is taking all my time currently ...
<pygi> cbx33: sec
<paolob-parroquia> when is edgy scheduled for release?
<cbx33> pygi, sent
<ogra> tomorrow in four weeks
<ogra> beta release is in 3 days
<pygi> cbx33: I see it, what was wrong?
<cbx33> i didnt need the 00 at the start
<pygi> oh, you needed + then :)
<cbx33> pygi, you can choose a size on lulu
<cbx33> has anyone decided on a size yet?
<pygi> cbx33: ah, no, not really
<cbx33> might be an idea ;)
<pygi> indeed ;)
<cbx33> since lisa needs to start on cover
<pygi> hm, sec, lemme look all other ubuntu books on lulu
<cbx33> ok
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, but will gnome-power-manager patch be in edgy?
<cbx33> anyone know how to sort out a stuffit archive file in linux?
<pygi> cbx33: 7.44" x 9.68"
<ogra> paolob-parroquia, its in since 2 weeks
<ogra> i just dont have the time to set up a dapper box to build and test it ... else it would already be in dapper as well 
<paolob-parroquia> cbx33, http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Apps/stuffit-archives.html says you're out of luck
<cbx33> paolob-parroquia, damn it
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, but another guy was going to build it, isn't it?
<ogra> dunno 
<cbx33> ogra, this totally doesn;t make sense any more
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> it's picking up some true vaues that I don;t even know where they come from
<paolob-parroquia> cbx33, did you recompile gnome-power-manager for dapper with ogra's hibernation patch?
<cbx33> i tested the build 
<cbx33> and ogra said that was cool
<cbx33> beyond that I know not what happened
<paolob-parroquia> cbx33, but do you have the patched gnome-power-manager package ready? 
<cbx33> i wasn't aware I was supposed to
<mario__> cbx33: sorry, bad dsl again :p
<cbx33> heh
<mario__> lemme try now
<paolob-parroquia> cbx33, do you mean you lost it?
<cbx33> no, I mean last time I did something on that, ogra said job done and so I persued no further..... ogra am I the idiot here?
<ogra> cbx33, no
<cbx33> *phew*
<ogra> i wanted to know if the patch applies in a dapper pbuilder which you had proven
<ogra> but i'm simply to busy atm to care for dapper updates now ...
<paolob-parroquia> cbx33, but if I could get the patched package... wouldn't it be possible?
<ogra> but anyone can just throw in the patch from the edgy package and rebuild the dapper one ... will work flawless
<mario__> cbx33: got it?
<cbx33> paolob-parroquia, I'd help you out, but at the moment I have a problem in a package which won't go away
<cbx33> mario__, what?
<paolob-parroquia> cbx33, ok, I'll ask you further, ok?
<mario__> cbx33: the sms :P
<cbx33> no :(
<mario__> cbx33: seems I can't send it :(
<cbx33> awww sux
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<cbx33> brb
<EmxBA> hello
<cbx33> ping ogra I have found the issue
<cbx33> but not sure why it is an issue
<cbx33> bbl
<Amaranth> ogra: ping?
<LaserJock> Amaranth: heh, I did that last time
#edubuntu 2006-09-26
<bddebian> Heya
<mhz> moin
<bddebian> Heya mhz
<mhz> hey bddebian 
<de_wizze> is there any Controloula work-a-like in (ed)ubuntu ? The idea is perfect but it seems to be only available unofficially from Linex.
<LaserJock> de_wizze: what does it do? I've heard of it
<de_wizze> http://www.gfiles.org/gtk/download/controlaula/822/
<de_wizze> its the closest thing that I have seen to a reasonable Remote Desktop Management console so far 
<LaserJock> de_wizze: edubuntu has student-control-panel
<LaserJock> for ltsp
<de_wizze> GUI based any way 
<de_wizze> ok 
<de_wizze> I'll check it out ..
<skwashd> hi all
<skwashd> i am working my way through https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup
<skwashd> and i am almost at the end ... yay!
<skwashd> i haven't been able to find out what is meant by "Note that powerpc clients need some special options in the servers dhcp setup. " at the bottom of that doc
<skwashd> anyone able to offer some hints?
<skwashd> i am running a PIII server with a G3 client
<Amaranth> ogra: ping
<TeePOG> morning all
<TeePOG> Kamping_Kaiser: g'day mate
<TeePOG> ogra, hi
<TeePOG> hi nixternal, Burgundavia
* TeePOG is back, with coffee ^.^
<nixternal> hiya TeePOG
<TeePOG> how goes it nixternal?
<nixternal> somehow, it continues going ;)
<TeePOG> tr00
<TeePOG> coffee helps
<nixternal> not at 1:30 am ;)
<nixternal> sleep helps now ;)
<TeePOG> sheesh, sure... it's 08:40 here now
<TeePOG> i'm 15 minutes from finishing Knoppix 5 DVD from torrent ^.^
<cbx33> I think I have it :)
<cbx33> I have fixed the pessulus bug
<cbx33> ogra: the workaround I created originally actually now breaks it
<cbx33> so I've removed it, and pending some rigorous testing later today it works ;)
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> how is everyone this morning? Hmmmmmmmm?
<cafuego> by all means
<skwashd> cafuego: hey
<cafuego> skwashd: http://www.cafuego.net/stuff/dhcpd.conf
* skwashd looks
<cafuego> skwashd: I netboot my macs on that config; I think you need to at least have 'allow booting;' and 'allow bootp;'
<bimberi> skwashd: np :)
<skwashd> bimberi: :)
<cbx33> hey bimberi 
<bimberi> hi cbx33!
* skwashd tries it
<cafuego> skwashd: .. and that should in theory result in the mac pulling yaboot.conf off the tftp server
<skwashd> ok
<cbx33> bimberi: I'm hoping to get a chance to try those playground noises in the sounds later
<cbx33> I love EDGE/GPRS :D
<bimberi> ooh, really, that'd be good
<cbx33> bimberi: yes i have to make a change to the logout sound so I'll do it then
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> and now my patch is done I'll have more time to do it
<skwashd> atleast this time i get a grey screen
<bimberi> someone emailed me with an excellent idea.  startup sound has playground noises punctuated by a bell ringing (for the start of school).  Shutdown starts with the bell followed by children cheering
<bimberi> :)
<cbx33> hehehe
<bimberi> i think that would require particular recording though
<cbx33> that's a cool idea - we could try that in edgy + 1
* bimberi will put it on the wiki so it's not forgotten
<cbx33> hhe
<cbx33> DAMN it.
<cbx33> argh
<cbx33> nooooo
<skwashd> ah hang on
<cbx33> this patch is broken again
<skwashd> i forgot the last step of the howto
<cbx33> i remember why i did it in the first place now
<cbx33> *gah*
<cbx33> right I'm off for a while
<cbx33> see y'all later
<skwashd> hmmm
<skwashd> Not on powerpc, skipping yaboot installation.
<skwashd> the i386 bit works
<skwashd> that is when updating the kernels ... as listed in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup
* skwashd boots with the live cd again
<TeePOG> hey, cool, i was wondering about that a while ago
<skwashd> cafuego: it seems i don't have a powerpc kernel installed under /opt/ltsp
<skwashd> running ltsp-update-kernels on the server gives the error above about not being on ppc
<cafuego> skwashd: Ugh. Yeah, a ppc chroot would be _really_ handy.
<skwashd> but running it on the client with a live cd complains about not being able to find /opt/ltsp/*/boot/vmlinux*
<cafuego> skwashd: Your ltsp server is i386?
<skwashd> cafuego: yeah
<skwashd> client will be a powerpc
<cafuego> Ok, the way I went about this, is to install the server on the powerpc; and then copy the chroot across.
<skwashd> cafuego: so https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup is crap ?
<cafuego> skwashd: I've not tried it..
<skwashd> ok
<cafuego> skwashd: but netbooting, mounting and installing should work OK.
<cafuego> Just check that /opt/ltsp is not a symlink.
<skwashd> /opt/ltsp is fine
<skwashd> i can read and write to it
* cafuego nods
<cafuego> Then in theory `sudo ltsp-build-client' should work fine.
<skwashd> which is what i did
<skwashd> and it seemed to forget the kernel/s :(
<cafuego> Hmm..
<cafuego> I cna give you kernels.
<cafuego> Just copy 'em by hand, hold on.
<skwashd> cafuego: how about i chroot
<skwashd> and just apt-get install
<cafuego> (these ALSO contain the nic drivers for the old ppcs)
<cafuego> skwashd: yes, but make sure that the initrd that's generated is set up for nfs root.
<skwashd> cafuego: i will run the ltsp-update-kernels once i have a kernel in the chroot :)
<skwashd> and i have exitted the chroot
* cafuego nods
* skwashd waits for the snail to move
<skwashd> cafuego: btw did you go to the sfd bazaar ?
<willvdl> morning all
<cbx33> well I figured out the problem
<cbx33> but it's not so easy to fix
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> the problem is which gconf server it uses
<cbx33> hi RichEd 
<RichEd> hi cbx33 - how are you ?
<cbx33> heh - fixing a nasty bug in pessulus
<RichEd> We had a bank holiday yesterday ... some time with the kids & wife. Did I miss anything or anyone ?
<cbx33> but I kinda created it so it's my problem
<cbx33> :p
<RichEd> Well good luck :)
<cbx33> hehe tahnk you
* cbx33 is going for ubuntu-dev membership tonight :S
<cbx33> brb
<skwashd> cafuego: that did the trick
<TeePOG> morning RichEd :-)
<RichEd> Hi TeePOG :)
<TeePOG> how goes?
<RichEd> all right ... getting up to speed today ... been hassling with telkom adsl for the last 2 hours when I needed to be working :(
<TeePOG> yah, you could spend your whole life hassling telkom
<cbx33> pygi
<cbx33> !!!!!
<cbx33> good morning
<pygi> morning cbx33
<pygi> you have a sec?
<cbx33> sms working yet ;)
<pygi> yes, to everyone but you :P
<pygi> cbx33: sorry, dc
<pygi> and I still can't send you a message :-/
<cbx33> ok np
<pygi> it's weird since I can send it to  anyone else, I tried Hungary, USA, India...
<pygi> all works :-/
<pygi> joy, 350ms lag :-/
<cbx33> :(
<willvdl> mjor lag here too (South Africa)
<pygi> cbx33: you have a phone on some other network perhaps?
<cbx33> no :(
<pygi> cbx33: it's weird I can call you, but can't send you a message
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> unless my network won;t accept incoming sms from abroad
<skwashd> hmmm
<skwashd> still not working
<skwashd> i get the BOOTREQUEST and it gives the BOOTREPLY
<skwashd> and i get a grey screen
<skwashd> but i can't seem to boot
<ogra> morning
<ogra> skwashd, fo mac booting i have a dhcpd.conf at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> they need this silly hex code, else they wont pick up the reply
<pygi> cbx33: might be, poke the  network service about it?
<skwashd> ogra: thanks ... i will look at it
<skwashd> and compare it to the version i got from cafuego
<ogra> skwashd, is that a mac server with mac clients ? 
<ogra> or i386 ?
<skwashd> mine? i386 server with a ppc client
<ogra> ah, fine ...
<ogra> did you follow the multiarch doc ? 
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup
<pygi> cbx33: you still alive? :)
<cbx33> pygi: yes I'm alive
<cbx33> I'll ring them
<cbx33> ogra: good morning
<pygi> kk
<cbx33> I have found the problem
<skwashd> ogra: yes
<ogra> and you didnt end up with a kernel in the chroot ? 
<skwashd> ogra or cafuego can i please get a yaboot.conf ?
<ogra> that shouldnt happen ...
<skwashd> ogra: initially no ... so i had to chroot and install it manually
<skwashd> using a live cd
<ogra> are you sure that all the setps in ltsp-build-client finished fine ? 
<ogra> *steps
<skwashd> the second time ... yes
<ogra> hey cbx33 
<ogra> second time == you wiped out /opt/ltsp before running ltsp-build-client again, right ? 
<ogra> (never run it over an existing chroot, that will break)
<skwashd> ogra: no ... cos i has the i386 install already done
<cbx33> ogra: the problem was a real icky one, I had to use gconftool to write the keys when using a custom path, as running from within the code/python, caused it to be run as root, changing ownership of the gconf directories for the user = not a good idea ;) The problem was that when I was reading them in it was using roots gconf server, and when writing it was using the users
<ogra> well, then /opt/ltsp/powerpc ...
<skwashd> but over /opt/ltsp/powerpc ... i am pretty sure i did
<skwashd> fsck it
<ogra> but it will cause breakage to run it twice on the same chroot
<skwashd> time to try again
<cbx33> hence there was discontinuity between the data - consquently I'm writing a whole new set of get functions in a subclass, which will use gconftool to get the value
<cbx33> the subclass is good as it is what vuntz wanted anyway :D
<ogra> skwashd, also are you running dapper or edgy ? 
<ogra> the kernel handling in ltsp-update-kernels is different in edgy
<ogra> cbx33, how big is that patch ?
<cbx33> no huge
<cbx33> but it is definitely needed if you want pessulus
<ogra> note that we're only allowed to change very few lines after beta ...
<cbx33> so you want it in before beta
<skwashd> ogra: on this box ... dapper
<cbx33> ogra: I get that
<cbx33> so I'm goign to try to get it done now
<cbx33> which should be ok
<ogra> cbx33, i'm not sure i want to change anything before beta ...
<cbx33> something seems to have changed in gconf because it all worked before hand
<ogra> skwashd, ok, then all should be fine ... in edgy parts of the kernel update code moved into the chroot ...
<cbx33> ogra: what's the bottom line
<ogra> cbx33, show me the patch :)
<skwashd> ogra: would you recommend edgy over dapper ?
<cbx33> ogra: I'll develop it now and show it to you when it's done
<cbx33> is that gonna be ok
<ogra> skwashd, feature wise i would ... but i didnt run any cross arch tests yet
<cbx33> I'm at work, but I'm tryingto ignore everyone
<ogra> cbx33, as it fits you ... 
<ogra> skwashd, edgy adds automatic network swap, printing support, local device support (floppies,cdroms,usbsticks....), language ans seselection in the login manager ...
<skwashd> ogra: hmmm ... how recent is the newest "flight" (or whatever) image ?
<skwashd> ah ... local dev support ... that is something i want
<ogra> skwashd, i'll be testing an edubuntu daily install in abut an hour ... thats nearly the beta release
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<ogra> from a first look at the iso it seems fine ... but i cant say anything more until i've done a test install
<cbx33> ogra: someone said we'd be dropping back to an almost FF state after beta
<skwashd> ogra: how tricky would a dist-upgrade be ?
<ogra> cbx33, well, changes will be reviewed the smaller ones are more likely to be accepted ...
<ogra> skwashd, apart from having to rebuild your chroots it should be fine ...
<cbx33> ah ok
<skwashd> and rebuilding the chroot would be done by ... chroot /opt/ltsp/arch; vi /etc/apt/sources.list; sudo apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp/$arch && sudo ltsp-build-client
<skwashd> hmmm
<skwashd> so i would need an edubuntu powerpc edgy live cd?
<ogra> ltsp-build-client des some tweaks to the chroot that are not done by the packages, so a simple upgrade might fail (or might work i didnt test it)
<ogra> as i said before, i wasnt able to test multiarch either yet ... but it should be the same procedure as described in the doc
<skwashd> ogra: this "2 hour job" has taken me a large part of my day ... i think i will stick with dapper for now 
<ogra> ok
<skwashd> ogra: one last question ... how do i change the sources for building the chroot? just as normal vi /etc/apt/sources.list ?
<ogra> ltsp-build-client --help ;)
<ogra> it has a --mirror option
<skwashd> ok ... thanks
<ogra> i.e. if you have a cd around it will speed up immensely to do:
<ogra> mount /cdrom
<skwashd> it is the live cd so it is mounted
<ogra> sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom
<skwashd> thanks
<ogra> not sure it works like taht from the livecd though ... try it :)
<pygi> I don't think it'll work from live cd ogra
<ogra> pygi, if the liveCD has a /pool directory it *might* work :)
<skwashd> yes it does!
<ogra> all you need are the Packages/Release file and a /poll with packages
<ogra> *pool
<skwashd> hmmm no
<skwashd> Failure trying to run: chroot /opt/ltsp/powerpc mount -t proc proc /proc
<skwashd> ah m,
<skwashd> nm
<pygi> skwashd: if livecd has /pool you can manually copy files to appropriate dir at disk
<skwashd> i forgot to nfs mount
<ogra> right :)
<ogra> so it seems it will work with the liveCD
<ogra> pygi, that wouldnt speed up much ...
<pygi> right :)
<skwashd> nope
<skwashd> broke at the same place
<ogra> hmm, seems the /proc mount doesnt like having nfs underneath it
<skwashd> ogra: this is the first time i had choked there ... the other 2 times it worked fine
<ogra> without specifying the --mirror option ? 
<skwashd> hang on
<skwashd> i will try in a minute
<ogra> i know it works as described in the doc ... since i tested that ... but i never tried to use the cd i'm running from as mirror
<ogra> oh, run "mount" please :)
<ogra> might be that you still have a /proc mount in /opt/ltsp/powerpc
<skwashd> ogra: what do you want from that ?
<ogra> look for /proc :)
<skwashd> nope only at /proc
<ogra> if your first two times broke (one is indicated by not having a kernel, the second by not wiping the chroot)
<skwashd> ogra: no .. the first time it broke cos it didn't get all the packages
<ogra> chroot into /opt/ltsp/powerpc and check theer is no proc mounted
<ogra> right
<skwashd> the second time maybe i didn't remove the chroot
<ogra> which results ain a broken chroot
<ogra> its really important that it finishes properly
<skwashd> can't run command /bin/bash
<skwashd> so it won't chroot
<ogra> and that the chroot dir is empty before you start
<skwashd> time for a windoze trick
<ogra> ok, but since you didnt see /opt/ltsp/powerpc/proc in your mount output, it should be fine
<cbx33> ogra: patch is looking good
<ogra> how many lines ? 
<cbx33> 170
<cbx33> :(
<ogra> urgh
<cbx33> it's taking a module from pessulus
<cbx33> and writing some subclass
* skwashd reboots the ppc box
<cbx33> to overwrite some functions in a special case
<cbx33> it will not be shorter than that....
<cbx33> infact chances are it will be a few lines longer
<ogra> right, but thats quite huge 
<cbx33> it's up to you
<cbx33> I know
<ogra> and its a new feature ...
<cbx33> no, it's a bug fix for an old featuer
<cbx33> and vuntz and seb128 wanted these changes remember
<ogra> you are implementing it differently
<cbx33> slightly yes
<cbx33> it's your call
<ogra> so it must be treated like a new feature ... its untested as well ...
<ogra> i think i'll need to discuss it with mdz then ...
<cbx33> well. .... I'm still gonna develop the patch
<cbx33> no harm in having it done
<ogra> right ... 
<cbx33> I don't know what eles to say...I had it tested and working
<cbx33> something has chnaged somewhere
<cbx33> and when I tested the other day it was broken....it has taken me a little hwile to find the problem....I'm sorry
<ogra> should be in a changelor somewhere :)
<ogra> *changelog
<cbx33> exactly ...somewhere
<ogra> well, look at the packages involved :)
<cbx33> I don;t have time 
<cbx33> I must get this patch finished
<ogra> can only be gconf or pessulus
<cbx33> then you guys can decide if you can implement it or not
<cbx33> if not, we should remove the lockdown feature from SCP - mandatory keys work....non-mandatory keys don;t
<cbx33> so it's up to you
<ogra> pessulus didnt change after your patch
<ogra> well, and gconf didnt either
<ogra> last version was from sept 3
<cbx33> well....it must be my *&%^'d up coding
<cbx33> :(
<ogra> well, if it worked  ....
<cbx33> and it did
<ogra> right
<cbx33> but if nothing has changed anywhere
<cbx33> then it must have been a non-true test
<cbx33> it doesn't really matter why it went wrong....I'm in the wrong so.....I'd better "go figure"
* ogra goes for an install test ... bbl
<skwashd> ok --mirror file:///cdrom causes the proc problem
<willvdl> ogra-thin? :)
<TeePOG> ogra must have lost weight ^.^
<ogra-thin> haha
<ogra-thin> no, i'm happily logged in from a fresh install ...
<TeePOG> ahhh
<ogra-thin> no manual steps needed anymore ... ltsp out of the box with sound, localdev etc :)
<TeePOG> mmmmkay... edgy?
<TeePOG> my sound doesn't work
<cbx33> ogra-thin: hey dude
<cbx33> I have it fixed
<cbx33> before I rigorously test it
<cbx33> do you want to see the patch?
<ogra-thin> finally sure, mail it :)
<ogra-thin> huh ?
<ogra-thin> i didnt type "finally" ...
<cbx33> are you sure
<ogra-thin> yes
<cbx33> it was a freudian slip
<cbx33> heheh I can tell
<ogra-thin> xchat-gnome has its own life it seems
<ogra-thin> very very weird 
* cbx33 imagine ogra rolling his eyes and going....phew finally !
<ogra-thin> nah ;)
<cbx33> your fingers did the rest ;)
<cbx33> cheeky ;)
<ogra-thin> i had the same in #ubuntu-devel
<ogra-thin> it just swallowed half of my sentence ...
<ogra-thin> instead of adding something 
<ogra-thin> thisd install CD is starting to look quite sexy :D
<ogra-thin> even my mother could install an ltsp environment now
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> ogra-thin: I have just tested every scenario I can think of in gconf and it appears to have been totally fixed
<cbx33> because my change to pessulus is patch already, how do you want it so you can view it?
<cbx33> how does one reverse a patch?
<skwashd> i have worked out the proc problem
<skwashd>  /proc doesn't exist in the chroot
<ogra-thin> cbx33: debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
<ogra-thin> skwashd: you mean teh mountpoint ?
<ogra-thin> that cant be ... 
<ogra-thin> its created by debootstrap
<cbx33> ok ogra-thin 
<skwashd> ogra-thin: yes
<skwashd> that is what i thought too
<skwashd> but it isn't being created
<ogra-thin> i'll check that after beta release (need to set up a dapper machine anyway)
<cbx33> ogra-thin: sorry just quick - what was that command to do the patchs where it creates a copy of the source so you can modify it?
<Kamping_Kaiser> someone pinged me?
<ogra-thin> cbx33: dpatch-edit-patch or cdbs-edit-patch ?
<cbx33> t5hnks
<ogra-thin> (depending on the patch system you add to the package)
<cbx33> my problem is my patch needs to be an update to a patch alredy inside the system
<cbx33> so that won't work...
<ogra-thin> choose a higher number for it
<cbx33> you can't patch patches
<cbx33> casn you
<ogra-thin> sure
<cbx33> well you shouldn't, should you
<ogra-thin> thats how the -edit-patch commans work 
<cbx33> but....oh wouldn't it be better to strip out my patch and build it from scratch - so it contained al the changes?
<ogra-thin> they apply all patches with a lower numbering or a higher place in 00list (for dpatch)
<ogra-thin> then they create a chroot for the pacvkage where yoiu can edit
<skwashd> i have been playing some more
<skwashd> when running "sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/powerpc mount -t proc proc /proc" manually i get
<skwashd> chroot: cannot run command `mount': No such file or directory
<cbx33> ogra: patch seems to apply cleanly
<ogra> skwashd, running from the liveCD ?
<skwashd> ogra: yeag
<skwashd> yeah
<skwashd> ogra: same before and after failed install
<ogra> if you chroot into it, can you see /bin/mount ? 
<skwashd> ogra: /bin doesn't exist
<ogra> are you sure you exported /opt/ltsp in rw ?
<skwashd> ogra: yes ... and i can do what i want with the mounted dir
<cbx33> hi rodarvus 
<rodarvus> good morning
<rodarvus> hi cbx33!
<skwashd> ogra: should i just install onto the local hdd ... then mount /opt/tlsp and copy the chroot over ?
<cbx33> ogra: just pbuilding if that is successful I'll send you the file to take a look
<ogra> skwashd, thats a way you can do it as well indeed
<skwashd> ogra: thanks for all of your help
<skwashd> i think i will leave it until tomorrow
<ogra> ok
<skwashd> and maybe with edgy :)
<cbx33> ogra: sent
<ogra> thanks
<cbx33> ogra: it works - just tested
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> I just locked someone out of printing
<ogra> urgh
<ogra> cbx33, your patch is to pessulus, not to SCP ?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> i did say that
<ogra> that means you need to getit past seb128 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll go talk to him now
<ogra> i'm not sure he'll approve such a big change at all
<cbx33> no me neither
<cbx33> but all I can do is to try
<ogra> right
<cbx33> I'm trying now
<cbx33> ogra: I have good news and bad news
<ogra> shoot
<cbx33> he is willing to and will probably apply the patch without a problem
<cbx33> just after beta ;)
<ogra> thats fine
<ogra> whats the bad news ?
<cbx33> ehehe
<cbx33> there is none....
<cbx33> apart from my head almost exploded yestereday
<ogra> even better :)
<cbx33> the bad news was after beta ;)
<cbx33> I'll get the scp patch ready
<ogra> before release is always good news ;)
<ogra> i dont care about beta knot or what 
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I'm so relieved
<ogra> - X cursor in gdm/ldm
<ogra> - usplash 640x480 theme
<ogra> - SCP fixes
<ogra> - usplash progressbar handling in ltsp
<ogra> thats my todo list before release
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> SCP fixes should be minimal now
<ogra> not really much :)
<cbx33> no....
<cbx33> ogra: how do i make a bug edgy milestone?
<cbx33> in LP?
<cbx33> ogra: did you want me to create that 640x480 file for you tonight?
<ogra> cbx33, it can wait until after beta
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> is willow all sorted now?
<mario> ogra, how stable is our today's daily cd?
<cbx33> hey mario 
<mario> hey cbx33 :)
<cbx33> should be pretty close to beta
<mario> I know that :)
<RichEd> hey mario :)
<mario> hello RichEd :P
<mario> ehm, I'll just download the cd ;p
<mario> hm, or no, I'd rather not mess something on this machine anymore :)
<mario> what are you upto RichEd ? :)
<ogra> mario, there is one breakage in cupsys that prevents the install from finishing
<ogra> apart from that its ready for beta
<mario> k, thanks ogra :)
<RichEd> mario: identifying typical user profiles, target needs, and priorities - the community needs profiling exercise
<cbx33> RichEd: oooh hows that going
<cbx33> has will gotten any further with ESA?
<cbx33> ogra: looks as though some of hte pessulus locking may not work with the changes to the applets! 
<cbx33> but that is unconfirmed...i tried to lockout the clock but it didn't work...however save to disk was locked out fine
<cbx33> ogra: I sent you an email containing the minor change to SCP
<cbx33> keep until you need it ;)
<RichEd> cbx33: will need to check it out ... willvdl is on travels to Johannesburg for NEPAD eSchools meetings
<cbx33> ahhh
<ogra> cbx33, the SCP patch is fine
<pygi> cbx33, what's the status with your mobile network?
<cbx33> gonna ring them in a second ;)
<cbx33> ogra: cool
<ogra> Amaranth_, pong
<Amaranth> ogra: PM?
<ogra> sure
<RichEd> cbx33: the good news is as follows : Christina was working on these last week, we should have some case studies by Wednesday.
<RichEd> cbx33: from ChrisK ... Christina is the new Marketing under Chris, and Will is working with her on ESA ... so they have their 1st tangible deliverable ... and that is what we are piggy backing off
<lguerra> RichEd: hi, please #VSEE
<ogra> oh
* ogra just found another bug
<cbx33> ogra: oop
<cbx33> what is it?
<ogra> a really evil one ...
<cbx33> yikes what?
<ogra> i forgot to update the little screenshot for the preview of the gdm theme 
<cbx33> heh
<ogra> oh, that reminds me 
* ogra looks at the other previews as well
<ogra> no, they look fine
* RichEd -> out for 30 mins 
<cbx33> ogra: didn't you say you were going to use one of the wallpapers we did for the gdm screen?
<cbx33> just curious I remembered something yousaid the other day
<ogra> cbx33, yes, but that was to loaded, i tried it
<cbx33> ok np
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> i wanted to use the one with the photo in the background initially
<cbx33> ahhh
<ogra> we can still make chages after beta i guess :)
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> try making a suitable gdm theme if you want ... i'm totally not bund to my quick hack 
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> i just wanted some quick consistency
<cbx33> yeh a good plan
<ogra> the gnome splash could als need a slightly bit more red in its yellow i think
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> its a bit to "lemon" for the rest
<cbx33> we can work on that
<willvdl> highvoltage, ping
<cbx33> lisa is busy on the edubuntu handbook cover at the mo
<cbx33> hi willvdl 
<ogra> yep
<willvdl> hey cbx33
<ogra> cbx33, i can live with what we have so if it puts any pressure on you or lisa, dont do it ... there are more important things to fix we'll find after beta i guess
<cbx33> ogra: heh dude it's fine
<highvoltage> willvdl: pong, although I'm at an internet cafe in stb and might respnd slowly
<willvdl> ah. lekker :)
<willvdl> Java Cafe no doubt...
<highvoltage> yes :)
<pygi> hey highvoltage 
<highvoltage> are you psykick or something!?
<highvoltage> hey py	
<highvoltage> hi pygi
<willvdl> just want to see if you have a public copy of xola on the internot
<highvoltage> i think I might have a slightly older version somewhere... let me check...
<highvoltage> willvdl: pvt msg
<willvdl> not psykick, just following you :P
* highvoltage looks around very carefully
* ogra jumps up behind the corner he was hiding 
<ogra> BOOOO
<rodarvus> O_O
<willvdl> oi, who's following who here?
* cbx33 drops a large boook
<cbx33> BANG !
* pygi breaks local burner devices support
<cbx33> pygi: oh dear
<pygi> hey Amaranth 
<Amaranth> hey
<cbx33> hi Amaranth 
<Amaranth> hey cbx33
<willvdl> ok, gotto go again. ciao
<Amaranth> d'oh, have to reboot to windows
<Amaranth> back later
<sbalneav> Morning all
<pygi> hey sbalneav :)
<sbalneav> Hello pygi 
<cbx33> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hello cbx33 
<pygi> sbalneav, how do we stand with iscsi knowledge?:)
<sbalneav> I haven't had much chance to deal with it, I've been dealing with this : 
<sbalneav> http://news.linux.com/news/06/09/21/233234.shtml?tid=47&tid=115&tid=96
<sbalneav> We've been very busy the last 2-3 weeks :)
<pygi> sbalneav, oki, but we do need to learn some more then we currently know about it :P
<sbalneav> Dude, I'm dancing as fast as I can :)
<pygi> Don't worry :)
<pygi> we still have time ;)
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<RichEd> hey jsgotangco , sbalneav :)
<jsgotangco> hey dude
<jsgotangco> just did a demo on LTSP, Ubuntu and Edubuntu today
<jsgotangco> a hundred people showed up
<cbx33> jsgotangco: WOW
<RichEd> jsgotangco: my main man :) company internal demo ?
<cbx33> nice one
<sbalneav> Hello RichEd 
<RichEd> sbalneav: nice news article ... just loaded it
<jsgotangco> RichEd: no www.philosc.com
<lguerra> jsgotangco: strong blow to microsoft :P
<ogra> RichEd, not really
<RichEd> ogra ??
<ogra> its a very bad article imho
<ogra> claiming that we forked but not mentioning that 5.0 will be based on this work
<jsgotangco> yeah
<RichEd> jsgotangco: willvdl meets with Mindset thursday 2 different meetings ... NEPAD agenda - no direct link to you as yet ... but relationship now moving from virtual to real life 
<jsgotangco> ahh cool
<jsgotangco> gina would be flying to new york tomorrow and meet the dalai lama jeez
<ogra> RichEd, whiprush read the first version of it aloud in jammcq's office while he was there and it was quite a different article back then
<jsgotangco> the perception now is that ubuntu *forked*
<ogra> it puts us in a very bad light ...
<ogra> jsgotangco, right 
<RichEd> let me re-read that ... 
<ogra> which is about right ... we did fork, but with the target to merge back which isnt mentioned
<jsgotangco> ogra: well we did fork, with upstream's knowledge...
<ogra> and support ...
<bddebian> Heya
<pygi> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya pygi
<RichEd> ... and the ultimate impression that is left is that we are a strong part of the solution.
<sbalneav> It was never a fork: it was the first implementation of the muekow spec.  We had the spec out in Feb/March, and UDU was in Apr.  Anyone who says it was a fork is talking out some orifice other than his/her mouth :)
<pygi> sbalneav, :)
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: people who say those things have no idea really
<RichEd> hey sbalneav & ogra ... why not post a comment with some clarity ?
<jsgotangco> jim's slides always say that Ubuntu was the first implementation of the spec
<pygi> jsgotangco, but they think they know everything, ... :)
<RichEd> (to the news page I mean ... not here)
<sbalneav> I did, if you'll look at the linux.com article :)
<jsgotangco> pygi: that's why i hardly read linux news ;)
<ogra> RichEd, i asked jorge to add a link to http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5
<jsgotangco> pygi: most people who reply just make it a pissing contest
<ogra> but it didnt happen yet
<pygi> jsgotangco, heh, indeed
<sbalneav> Or is this a different pacge from the one on linux.com?
<ogra> nope
<RichEd> or if you would like to send me "an accurate version, I am happy to post it under my name ?"
<ogra> its there
<ogra> thanks btw
<ogra> RichEd, realy just a link to upsteams words on the ltsp5 page says it all 
<ogra> *really
<RichEd> ogra: point taken, but not everyone will follow the link ... something light & fluffy may be better: "there has been co-operation with LTSP for many years, and the relationships have always been built with a single future in mind ..." wadda wadda etc.
<ogra> yep
<jsgotangco> let's just not loose sleep over one troll ;)
<RichEd> and then one line clearing up the "deliberate fork" vs "planned intermediate phase"
<ogra> jsgotangco, i'm over it so far ... had my bad moments after i came out though ... i'l ask whiprush why its so different to what he read aloud next time we meet ...
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> he probably got sooo excited
<ogra> probably it just got edited by a SuSE using linux.com editor ... who knows
<jsgotangco> haha
<cbx33> hi guys anyone know how I install the msttcorefonts pacakge
<cbx33> it doesn;t exist in dapper anymore
<cbx33> :S
<Amaranth> !msttcorefonts
<ubotu> msttcorefonts: Installer for Microsoft TrueType core fonts. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1.2ubuntu3 (dapper), package size 22 kB, installed size 164 kB
<Amaranth> multiverse :)
<cbx33> ahhhh
<cbx33> nope doesn't seen to be there either
<Amaranth> ubotu disagrees :)
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about disagrees :) - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Amaranth> stupid bot...
<cbx33> indeed it is
<LaserJock> cbx33!
<RichEd> LaserJock: mr spectroscopy !
<LaserJock> hehe
<RichEd> Just in time to say hi & bye ... have to feed the next generation.
<RichEd> Later all.
<LaserJock> hi!
<LaserJock> bye!
<cbx33> LaserJock, 
<cbx33> LaserJock, if I have a pacakge in two different repos
<cbx33> how do I for one version over the other?
<LaserJock> same version on both?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> it's wine
<cbx33> I want the winehq version
<cbx33> not the version in universe
<cbx33> but it keeps picking up the universe version in apt-get
<LaserJock> so did you install the winehq version?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> I want to
<cbx33> if I go apt-cache show wine
<cbx33> it shows the universe one
<LaserJock> sure
<cbx33> how can i tell it to use the winehq version
<LaserJock> are you adding a winehq repo?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> iut is added
<LaserJock> oh, well I wouldn't hve done that but ... ;-)
<cbx33> I can remoev it
<LaserJock> you only need a couple .debs right?
<cbx33> but if there are dev versions of theirs apt would make it easier to remove
<cbx33> yes
<LaserJock> just grab the .debs you need and use gdebi
<LaserJock> or dpkg
<cbx33> can i do it with apt
<cbx33> to handle the deps?
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> gdebi will do it
<LaserJock> or do dpkg -i and then apt-get -f install
<LaserJock> easy as pie ;-)
<cbx33> ok
* LaserJock thinks cbx33 needs to have to do more merging
<LaserJock> you learn all kinds of things to do with .debs ;-)
<cbx33> I use debs a lot
<cbx33> just the dependencies I'm not sure about
<cbx33> gdebi ?
<cbx33> what does that do
<LaserJock> arggg
* LaserJock smacks cbx33 with a fortran book
* cbx33 hides
<LaserJock> gdebi is a graphical .deb installer that does dependencies
<LaserJock> it's exactly what you want
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> thankx buddy
<cbx33> sorry for being frustrating
<LaserJock> np
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> you aren't frustrating
<cbx33> u sure ? :p
<LaserJock> of course
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> it worked ;)
<cbx33> one step closer to HL2 on linux ;)
<sbalneav> mutt
<sbalneav> Hmmm, starting your mail client works better when you do it in a terminal, as opposed to an irc channel.
<cbx33> sbalneav, mostly yes ;)
<pygi> cbx33, told you to stop telling people you are frustrating others, and stuff :P
<cbx33> brb
<Petaris> Is there anyway to force the clients to use a certain resolution?
<Petaris> setting it in lts.conf didn't seem to work
<Petaris> X_MODE_0=1024x768 is what I have in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<Petaris> or should I set it in the xorg.conf file in the chroot
<Petaris> from what I have ready setting it in lts.conf should have worked
<ogra> i'm not really here until the meeting, but use the right X_HORZSYNC X_VERTREFRESH values, ubuntus X server doesnt accept X_MODE settings 
* ogra goes downstairs again
<Petaris> thanks
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> it seems that if I ues X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH I will have to set it for each monitor, as all my monitors are different
<Petaris> that seems like a lot of work for what should be very simple to do
<Petaris> Just out of curiosity, does anyone know why X_MODE_0 is not supported?
<rodarvus> cbx33, did you ping ogra already?
<rodarvus> TB meeting is starting *now*
<pygi> ping ogra, it's meeting time :)
<cbx33> rodarvus, no
<cbx33> I have my 3 liner
<rodarvus> from ogra?
<cbx33> no my intro
<cbx33> ping ping ping ogra
<cbx33> alert alert ;)
<ogra> pong pong pong :)
<LaserJock> :-)
* LaserJock bits his lib
<LaserJock> lip
<pygi> LaserJock, :P
<LaserJock> argg
<LaserJock> the suspense is killing me ;-)
<pygi> lol :)
<LaserJock> holy cow!!!!
<LaserJock> \o/
<rodarvus> Hooray!
<pygi> congrats cbx33 :)
<ogra> YAY !!!
<rodarvus> Applaud our newest MOTU: cbx33!
<ogra> PARTY !
<pygi> :-D
<rodarvus> *cheers*
<cbx33> woohooo
<cbx33> that was scary
<LaserJock> heh
<rodarvus> cbx33, now get back to work!
<rodarvus> :)
<LaserJock> heh
<cbx33> sorry rodarvus 
<cbx33> my fingers are hurting
<rodarvus> next target, core-dev, for you and LaserJock!
<LaserJock> well, what needs to be done now for Edubuntu?
<cbx33> rodarvus, I hope so
<LaserJock> unfortunately I didn't have enough time to put together all the metapackages I wanted to do
<pygi> rodarvus, what about me as MOTU? :P
<LaserJock> I think for Edgy+1 cbx33 and I should work on those
<rodarvus> pygi, what are you waiting for? :)
<cbx33> LaserJock, sounds good
<pygi> rodarvus, somebody signing my keys ? :)
<rodarvus> oh
<pygi> I would have applied much earlier if I just could get the keys signed
<rodarvus> pygi, you live in Croatia, right?
<pygi> rodarvus, right
<pygi> so might take me a while to become MOTU :)
<rodarvus> there are no developers living near your country?
<pygi> rodarvus, Hopefully raphink and Jani can sign my keys on Ubuntu Conference in Hungary next month
<rodarvus> right, I was thinking about Jani
<pygi> that's still too far tho :P *the conference time :P*
<rodarvus> actually, I was researching the distance from Croatia to Romania in Google a few seconds ago :D
<pygi> rodarvus, he's coming to Hungary to a conference
<pygi> I'm presenting the Edubuntu, he's presenting Xubuntu, and raphink is presenting Kubuntu
<rodarvus> nice
<pygi> of those three people, I'm the only one useless :)
<rodarvus> when is this conference going to happen?
<pygi> rodarvus, October 28 if I'm not mistaken
<rodarvus> pygi, dude, you're not useless.
<rodarvus> I forbid you saying that
<pygi> lol :P
<LaserJock> soooo
<pygi> the trouble is the conf. is in Budapest, and there are riots there right now :)
* cbx33 too
<LaserJock> what do you think of Keybucks new suggestion for Edgy+1
<pygi> cbx33, you too what? be shhh :)
<rodarvus> "keybucks" :)
<LaserJock> Keybuk's
<rodarvus> LaserJock, I'm kidding ;)
<LaserJock> stupid english
<cbx33> brb
<rodarvus> to be sincere, I mostly agree with him
<rodarvus> about time we have default install on DVD media
<LaserJock> I was agreeing with him until somebody mentioned the UWN
<rodarvus> alternate cd can be kept on cd media, but its *alternate*
<LaserJock> that said janes said that Edgy will not have shipit
<LaserJock> or edgy won't be available on shipit rather
<ogra> it will
<ogra> but only for LUGs
<ogra> and for payment
<LaserJock> ah
<ogra> dapper will still stay free via shipit
<LaserJock> well
<cbx33> no shipit for edgy?
<ogra> for everyone
<cbx33> for anything?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> sadly not
<LaserJock> my idea that DVDs would probably be ok if you could get them from shipit
<cbx33> you're kidding
<ogra> nope
<ogra> only paied orders for LUGs
<cbx33> is there a reason y?
<ogra> LTS
<LaserJock> it's expensive and they want to promot LTS
<ogra> dapper is the long term support thing
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> so will edgy + 1 have shipit
<ogra> its a marketig decision ... we need to handle the costs 
<rodarvus> cbx33, this is largely undecided
<LaserJock> well
<pygi> ogra, is there anything else I should think of for edgy+1 except the local burning drives support?
<rodarvus> even edgy position on shipit is not final, as far as I know
<rodarvus> (or not publicly final, at least)
<LaserJock> well UWN final
<ogra> pygi, how to make the world accept 800MB media as default ? 
<LaserJock> I just don't see how 1 cd is going to work for us or Ubuntu or Edubuntu even
<LaserJock> s/Edubuntu/Kubuntu/
<pygi> ogra, that is not in my powers, sorry :) Next thing? :)
<rodarvus> LaserJock, shipit is sponsored by canonical, afaik UWN is not written by a Canonical employee. (but I don't know who gave the shipit information to whoever published it into UWN, so take my comment with a grain of salt)
<ogra> now that edubuntu is fine with the technical infrastructure we'll need to focus on apps ... thats will get hard with the CD limits we have
<LaserJock> rodarvus: well, apparently janes
<LaserJock> but I know what you're saying
<pygi> ogra, was thinking about (if that's possible) slowly starting to fire off edu-applications development
<ogra> rodarvus, jane did, but not as an official note yet
<ogra> pygi, dont hold back then :)
<cbx33> pygi, totally
<LaserJock> ogra: I think especially since we have mixed targets, preschool, elementary, high-school/uni
<cbx33> I'm working on gallium
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> they are all educational settings
<pygi> cbx33, I know that, but you working alone on that or?
<LaserJock> but they need vastly different apps once you get outside the infrastructure
<pygi> cbx33, and gallium is part of solution, but not entire solution
<ogra> right 
<ogra> gallium is only a part of a set iof apps we'll need
<LaserJock> that's where I though metapackages/add-on cds would be good
<LaserJock> *thought
<rodarvus> how is gallium coming, btw?
<LaserJock> ah well
<ogra> but they dont need to be ready tomorrow and everyone should work for the fun of it ;)
<rodarvus> do you have recent screenshots, or implemented features, etc?
<rodarvus> ... list of implemented features ...
<LaserJock> not yet
<pygi> ogra, it's not only about replacing kEdu, it's about creating new apps
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> rodarvus: it kinda stalled as Edgy freeze drew near ;-)
<pygi> ogra, and if I'm not mistaken Scribus is QT...if we get rid of KEdu, will we just drop Scribus?
<ogra> scribus is no KDE app
<LaserJock> it needs much fewer libs
<ogra> why should we drop it :)
<ogra> its the best we have for DTP
<pygi> oh, I thought it was written using QT?
<pygi> well, indeed :)
<LaserJock> QT != KDE
<pygi> LaserJock, ofcourse :)
<ogra> i'm not opposed to have apps aboard we can ship without having the CD explode
<LaserJock> ;-)
<pygi> which will more and more become a problem
<pygi> especially if we can really produce set of usable apps
<ogra> i wouldnt even oppose kdeedu if we had the space
<ogra> its a good set of apps
<LaserJock> it is for sure
* pygi nods
<pygi> I really hope we can pull that local burning devices support for edgy+1
<pygi> that would be a good feature
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> totally
<pygi> ogra, does anyone currently have that? 
<ogra> i have three big things on my edgy+1 todo atm ....
<pygi> Wouldn't say so...
<pygi> which are? :)
<ogra> - ldap/kerberos server in edubuntu
<ogra> - cd writing on ltsp
<ogra> - mic input support in ltsp
<pygi> add the 4th:
<ogra> but thats my personal todo .. 
<ogra> it usually changes after the conf ;)
<pygi> - make pygi more familiar with ltsp codebase 
<ogra> right
<pygi> that would be helpful to me, and probably in the future to you also
<ogra> but sbalneav will also help here ... thats not a one man show anymore ;)
<ogra> (help explaining the codebase i mean)
<pygi> I know, but I'll still need help :)
<pygi> right, right :)
* ogra goes downstairs again to his GF ... probably bbl
<pygi> kk
<LaserJock> well, I don't want to do ltsp stuff
<LaserJock> I think I'll leave that to the masters
<pygi> LaserJock, :)
<LaserJock> I'd like to work on the non-LTSP apps
<pygi> LaserJock, nice :)
<pygi> hey mhz 
<mhz> pygi: hey there mon
<LaserJock> hi mhz 
<mhz> LaserJock: hi there too
<mhz> LaserJock: have you been following Fluxbuntu development?
<LaserJock> not a lot
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<LaserJock> doh
<LaserJock> I've been talking to a (the?) Fluxubuntu guy in -motu
<mhz> heheheheh
<mhz> that happens
<pygi> :)
<LaserJock> I was thinking you were talking about the ebuntu
<LaserJock> enlightenment+ubuntu
<pygi> Enlightment is quite good, I tried it few days ago (e17)
<pygi> tho gtk apps look ugly in there
<cbx33> ebuntu
<cbx33> is it any good?
<LaserJock> yeah, it's a beastly moving target to package most of the time though
<pygi> cbx33: ebuntu?
<pygi> :P
<pygi> LaserJock: I know
<LaserJock> well cbx33, I'll put it this way. It was made from checkinstalled .debs
<cbx33> :S
<LaserJock> we (a few of us in -motu) tried to get the guy to work on source packages, but I think it was beyond him :/
<cbx33> :(
<pygi> no point before it's stable I guess
<LaserJock> anyway, hopefully soon fluxubuntu will be done through Universe
<LaserJock> and hopefully mubuntu too
<cbx33> cool
<pygi> LaserJock: what would "mubuntu" be?
<cbx33> yes mubuntu looks cool
<LaserJock> Multimedia Ubuntu
<pygi> oh, where can I read more about that?
<LaserJock> I did some "convincing" today
<cbx33> LaserJock, ?
<LaserJock> Ubuntu-Studio.com or some such
<LaserJock> cbx33: one of the mubuntu guys was going to make a Automatix-like program to do it
<cbx33> cool
<LaserJock> so I had a talk with them
<pygi> LaserJock: o, no, just not automatix!!!
<LaserJock> so now they are going to work on metapackages
* mhz has tried Elive
<mhz> LaserJock: well, joejaxx will work on Fluxbox Education Edition too (upon request)
<mhz> :)
<LaserJock> oh really?
<mhz> yup
<LaserJock> interesting
<mhz> just a matter or weeks to see Fluxbuntu Education Edition
<mhz> but..
<mhz> 1st version will be Live install version
<LaserJock> heh
<mhz> 2nd version will give you the chance to just install or boot in live mode
<mhz> LaserJock: one thing that caught my attention thoug, is that joejaxx says "don't know how/why but Fluxbuntu does auto update menus after new apps installs"
<LaserJock> ?
<mhz> afaik, one of the reasons why ogra does not recommends using fluxbux or wmaker or any other desktop for 'light version of edubuntu' is that many do not comply with freedesktop standards (ie updating menus)
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> that's an interesting thought
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> LaserJock: hehe, yes, but for joejaxx Fluxbuntu is updating menus, while my fluxbox running on top of Edubuntu does not
<mhz> is not
<mhz> ..grammar!
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> that sounds fishy to me
<mhz> LaserJock: what's the status of your "menu" work?
* mhz has not read the 7XX emails on inbox yet
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well, it was uploaded
* mhz truly dislikes this 'cibercafe' process
<LaserJock> it went through source NEW
<mhz> cool!!
<LaserJock> and is now waiting in binary NEW before going to the archives
<mhz> LaserJock: is the explanation to what you did on wiki?
<LaserJock> mhz: on the spec page yes
<mhz> thx
* mhz tabs
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDynamicMenus
#edubuntu 2006-09-27
<mhz> LaserJock: thx for documenting it
<LaserJock> np
<pygi> night all
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<bddebian> Heya
<HedgeMage> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> How's life?
<bddebian> Pretty sucky thanks. You?
<HedgeMage> :(
<HedgeMage> Not bad, just slow going 
<LaserJock> bddebian? ajmitch not showing you the love? ;/
<HedgeMage> hiya LaserJock 
<bddebian> LaserJock: heh
<LaserJock> hi HedgeMage 
* RichEd looks around ... seems verrrru quiet
<LaserJock> hola RichEd 
<RichEd> hi LaserJock :)
<pygi> hey RichEd && LaserJock 
<RichEd> quick question LaserJock: does firefox keep temporary files somewhere ? I was buwy with a wiki edit, and had done only a preview and not a save when I hit a hang last night ... any idea where the local copy may be ?
<RichEd> greetz pygi 
<Burgundavia> hey RichEd, LaserJock
<RichEd> Burgundavia ... mornin'
<LaserJock> RichEd: hmm, not exactly
<LaserJock> you could try your cache
<LaserJock> which would be in ~/.mozilla
<RichEd> ah .... I was looking in /firefox :) thankx will have a look
<RichEd> hey cbx33 
<mario_> sorry RichEd, dsl down
<RichEd> no problem ... change you nick and I'll resend
<cbx33> hi RichEd pygi 
<cbx33> brb
<cbx33> back
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<LaserJock> I guess it's morning there
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> 8:45 now ;)
<cbx33> how about where you are ?
<cbx33> must be like 11 ?
<LaserJock> almost 1:00
<cbx33> yikes
<cbx33> working latE?
<LaserJock> mhm
<cbx33> get to bed dude
<LaserJock> hmm, seems to be a 16hr Ubuntu day
<cbx33> crikey
<LaserJock> ogra!
<ogra> hy
<cbx33> hey ogra 
<RichEd> brb ... reboot
<EmxBA> hi
<cbx33> hi EmxBA 
<willvdl> highvoltage, ola
<EmxBA> pygi: hi
<pygi> hi EmxBA 
<cbx33> hey pygi 
<pygi> ho motu :)
<EmxBA> pygi: are you in the motu team?
<cbx33> hehe
<pygi> EmxBA: nop :)
<EmxBA> pygi: hmm...i know that someone from ubuntu-hr team is in motu...
<pygi> EmxBA: ivoks
<EmxBA> ah
<pygi> cbx33: ergh, I told you not to mention me anywhere :P
<cbx33> mention you what .... hwere ;)
<pygi> cbx33: the blog post :P
<cbx33> oh...sorry....
<cbx33> I can remove if you wish
<pygi> lol, told you to stop appologising for nothing :)
<pygi> And I'm just joking :)
<cbx33> argh.....but you just told me off ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> you deserve credit
<pygi> not really :P
<cbx33> you made me the python coder I am today
<pygi> ah
<cbx33> I just didn't know where to start and probably wouldn't have without you help
* pygi thinks he did nothing
<pygi> lol, what a changelog:
<pygi>    * Let's try this one more time (trust no one): 
<pygi> :)))
<cbx33> heh
<pygi> cbx33: :)
<pygi> cbx33: you haven't answered to my question yesterday....you working on gallium alone?
<cbx33> pygi: I didnt see that question
<pygi> cbx33: doesn't matter :)
<cbx33> umm Amaranth started it all and did a lot
<cbx33> I've been try ing to get hold of him to see if he likes my additions
<cbx33> I've done some formatting and started adding some features in
<cbx33> like the date slider al a kalzium
<pygi> nice
<cbx33> but I've been pretty busy with other things of late ;)
<cbx33> like getting all my work done so I can goto UDS
<pygi> hehe :)
<Amaranth> howdy
<pygi> hey Amaranth :)
<Amaranth> cbx33: is the logout noise supposed to be depressing? i just noticed yesterday
<pygi> Amaranth: that is intentional. Should make you never want to leave Edubuntu :)
<Amaranth> yeah, exactly
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> Amaranth: I added my branch to gallium
<Amaranth> cbx33: wow, you managed to edit it without puking? :)
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> well i did once or twice
<Amaranth> heh
<cbx33> take a look when you have a chance
<cbx33> you will probably puke back :p
<Amaranth> that was an almost non-stop 2 day coding session
<cbx33> nice
<Amaranth> meant to be a proof of concept, i was only just starting to clean it up when school started
<pygi> Amaranth: what?! you mean you actually sleeped? That is no good, no good :)))
<cbx33> pygi: heheh ;)
<Amaranth> pygi: not so much that, i stopped for 3 hours to watch a baseball game :)
<pygi> Amaranth: even worse, you watched tv!!!
<cbx33> heheh
<Amaranth> heh
* pygi doesn't want to remember network manager time for dapper or do it again any time soon :(
<Amaranth> i'm going to kill my cable company
<Amaranth> brb, restarting modem for the 5th time in about 16 hours
<pygi> don't, they electrocute you then :)
<cbx33> ok
<Amaranth> cbx33: hey, maybe we'll be able to do a little gallium hacking in mountain view :)
<pygi> Amaranth: :)
<pygi> Amaranth: Gallium should be packed with features and considered done for first stable release in MV :P
<Amaranth> heh
<EmxBA> bye
<pygi> Amaranth: whats wrong? :)
<Amaranth> code...full of...hacks
<Amaranth> needs...rewrite...to not suck
<Amaranth> :P
<Amaranth> it was just a bunch of "how can I do this?" exploratory stuff
<pygi> well, MV :P
<Amaranth> Yes, the Google air should make miracles happen ;)
<Amaranth> Maybe I'll release a beta for 3 years
<pygi> Amaranth: or stable once MV is done  :P
<Amaranth> * <--joke
<Amaranth> :) <--you
<Amaranth> :P
* Amaranth goes for more caffeine
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> hi rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hi cbx33
<pygi> ho hi rodarvus 
<cbx33> Amaranth: i need to find a faster way to implement what I implemented at the moment
<cbx33> but the...scratch that
<rodarvus> hi pygi
<Amaranth> cbx33: Yeah I know it had performance issues when doing anything that isn't sitting there looking pretty.
<Amaranth> I'm thinking it should use goocanvas, those guys know what they're doing. :)
<cbx33> well my slider was redrawing the whole screen ;)
<Amaranth> heh
<cbx33> goocanvas eh?
<Amaranth> it shouldn't have been, i have some code in there to do damage management
<Amaranth> ("this part changed, redraw it")
<Amaranth> with double buffering! :)
<cbx33> dude you rock !
<flint> highvoltage, Jonathan, good morning! is there a meeting this morning?
<Amaranth> oh my calendar is out-of-date
<ogra> nope, this evening
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda
<ogra> (just updated)
<Amaranth> hey, i'll be home for that one
<Amaranth> too bad i'll probably miss the bling meeting on friday (desktop effects team meeting)
<bddebian> Heya
<Amaranth> hey
<bddebian> Hi Amaranth
<highvoltage> hi!
<pygi> highvoltage: I'll eat you :) Where's my report on what media you used? :)
<flint> ogra, thanks Ollie, how is the new house coming?
<ogra> great 
<ogra> flint, we just got our solar heating on the roof :) http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/CIMG0923-1.JPG
<highvoltage> pygi: heh, my computers at home are have been lying in pieces in my room for the last week or so :)
<flint> ogra, I never can figure out the time early in the morning.  Our place in Barre Vermont is a LOT of work.  Right now I am back in DC.  I got my first skylight up and can use it as a hatchway to put up the solar panels.  
<pygi> highvoltage: hm, oki :)
<flint> ogra, BEAUTIFUL pix!  I got to take some pictures myself.
<ogra> flint, will we see you in mountainview ? 
<highvoltage> I was just checking in to make sure whether the meeting today was at 12:00 or 20:00, I see it's at 20:00. which is good, I'm at an expo today
* ogra is testing beta isos 
<highvoltage> there's again lots of edubuntu interest, I'm handing out lots of CD's and telling people to subscribe to edubuntu-users :)
<highvoltage> (bbl)
<flint> ogra, I have been a building contractor for the last few weeks, what date is Ubuntu CA?
<ogra> give them edgy, its soo sexy :)
<ogra> flint, Sunday 5th to Friday 10th November
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView
<ogra> i'll likely be in maine somewhere at the ltsp conf from Nov 1st to 5th :)
<RichEd> hello flint
<ogra> and was in detroit a week ago
<ogra> discovering the US ;)
<flint> ogra, Thanks baby...  I might meet you at the LTSP convention.  I am currently on a zope/plone deathmarch in DC.  (oh joy :^)
<ogra> heh
<flint> ogra, you be careful in the US we are armed lunatics (eg our foreign policy :^)
<ogra> as long as it pays your mortgage
<ogra> :)
<flint> ogra, preciscely.
<flint> RichEd, hey how is the Jane doing?
<ogra> right, i was fering that a bit, but had no impression like that when i was in detroit ...
<cbx33> CRIKEY ogra that solar panel is cooool
<flint> ogra, my favorite part of that area are the big signs on the freeway that say "Flint"
<ogra> i just noted that detroit doesnt really have sidewalks anywhere :)
<RichEd> Just emailing her now flint : she's well thanks.
<flint> ogra, sidewalks are illegal in the US.  
<ogra> you have a sidewlak that goes over three or four houses and ends at a tree :)
<ogra> or "just ends" ....
<flint> RichEd, excellent. Circumstances have conspired to keep me from focusing here on the edubuntu stuff which is what I would like to do.
<ogra> was funny when i wanted to walk a bit while having a ciggy
<flint> ogra, you took your life in your hands.  I have been smoking "Bee Dees" a low smoke for Lahore, Pakistan.  You must try one...
<Amaranth> ogra: Detroit is "Motor City", no one walks :P
<flint> ogra, The guys I am working with bring them back.
<ogra> right, i noticed that :)
<ogra> flint, bring them to maine :)
<RichEd> Walking is unpatriotic in the US. It supports the children's economy in Korea instead of the US Oil economy.
<flint> ogra, that is a fine house, and a very nice terra cotta roof.
<ogra> yep
<RichEd> flint, you come back into the fold at a good time. I will send you some links to planning theory. I am sure you will have some valuable input.
<ogra> i like it as well ... its just way to much in the city area ...
<pygi> RichEd: heh :)
<flint> RichEd, maybe the mid term elections will change this, we can hope that there is no terror incidents to change us more to the right wing.
<RichEd> flint: well let's hope george behaves then ;)
<flint> RichEd, thanks.  and particularly thanks Ollie for the picture of your garden.  It is quite fine.
<ogra> :)
<flint> sksk
<lucasvo> is there a possibility to use a usbstick to instal edgy or dapper?
<ogra> if its big enough and your HW can boot from it, i dont see why not
<bimberi> lucasvo: yes you can - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
<lucasvo> ogra: I once saw a ready made image for debian which had the minimal environment and donloaded the packages over ftp
<lucasvo> bimberi: that sounds complicated
<lucasvo> bimberi: I did it once, the image was not larger than 100mb
<bimberi> lucasvo: yes it is, a bit.  Involves the whole CD image.
<lucasvo> ok, let's try it over tftp
<jingl3> Hi folks, I have a problem booting xserver on a Mini-ITX thin client wired to Dapper. The thing boots fine under Breezy
<pygi> ogra: what happened with Ryan's Amenity and stuff? (gscoc)
<jingl3> Any suggestions?
<ogra> jingl3, what kind of graphics card ? 
<ogra> pygi, ask jsgotangco, he mentored him iirc
<pygi> will do :)
<jingl3> I'll look....
<jingl3> Trident Blade integrated 3D graphics core...
<ogra> hmm should work with the trident driver ...
<jingl3> Instead of XSERVER = auto?
<ogra> oh, you use an lts.conf ? 
<ogra> can you tyr if it works without ?
<ogra> *try
<ogra> our ltsp should autodetect everything to have a basic running setup ... lts.conf should only be used for tweaking 
<jingl3> OK. It's not connected to Internet yet, so must go off & try. Many thanks.
<ogra> worst case, if the driver is really broken for that card (which i hope is not the case) you can use XSERVER=vesa ... 
<cbx333> dudes anyway to get an external monitor working on dapper on a tosh laptop
<ogra> its not pleasant but will at least get it working
<cbx333> I've tried the keys but it doesn't work
<cbx333> anyone know why?
<cbx333> ogra: got a problem
<cbx333> some clients are not finding tftp
<cbx333> they have got their dhcp ip
<cbx333> but tftp timeout
<cbx333> however on my localmachine here I just managed to install tftp and download pxelinux.0
<ogra> from where ? 
<ogra> (path)
<cbx333> i did tfp 172.29.96.15
<cbx333> and did get ltsp/pxelinux.0
<cbx333> and it worked
<ogra> in edgy ? 
<cbx333> no dapper
<ogra> that shouldnt work
<ogra> ah
<ogra> in dapper thats the right path
<cbx333> but it did ;)
<pygi> damn dsl!
<cbx333> yes
<ogra> edgy has arch specific subdirs now ...
<ogra> cbx33, but if some get it and some dont that rather sounds like a network prob
* RichEd -> lunch
<cbx333> that sux
<cbx333> :(
<cbx333> maybe it's the network card
* pygi doesn't like his adsl 
<ogra> cbx33, you dont use a HUB, do you ? 
<cbx333> nope
* TeePOG greets everyone
* ogra waves to TeePOG 
<pygi> hey TeePOG 
<TeePOG> ogra! how goes?
<TeePOG> hi pygi
<ogra> fine ... perparing for beta :)
<cbx333> ogra: I'm in the same room here on the same switch
<cbx333> but it doesn't work
<ogra> and you dont have any other dhcp server running on that network ....
<cbx333> no
<cbx333> well i have my windows dhcp which serves all the machines
<cbx333> but that's what I've always used
<ogra> aha
<cbx333> and it has been fine
<cbx333> ogra: no other ideas?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> it can only be dhcp or the network
<cbx333> heh
<pygi> cbx333: wanna review package on revu?:)
<cbx333> pygi: i would love to, could I do it a little later
<cbx333> I'm trying to teach these kids
<highvoltage> `.
<pygi> cbx333: oki, perhaps, if Tonio_ doesn't find someone else by then :)
<cbx333> ok
* pygi already reviewed but can't ack it :P
<lguerra> Good Morning
<pygi> hey lguerra 
<lguerra> RichEd: ping
<RichEd> lguerra: pong
<sbalneav> Morning all
* RichEd doffs his hat to mr sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Morning RichEd 
<ogra> hey sbalneav 
<sbalneav> ogra!
<sbalneav> Hey, you got 20 minutes or so today?  I'm doing the section in the handbook that documents the lts.conf entries, and I want to go through them with you to make sure we get the ones we support, and the ones that arent are removed from the docs.
<ogra> yup, i'll try to find some time between the iso tests
<ogra> sbalneav, btw http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/ smealls very much like a beta release :)
* ogra goes for an i386 install test
<pygi> sbalneav: Edubuntu handbook? :)
<sbalneav> pygi: Yes, I volunteered to update the ltsp section in the edubuntu handbook.
<pygi> sbalneav: nice, thanks :)
<pygi> jsgotangco: hey :)
<jsgotangco> hey pygi
<pygi> jsgotangco: how did ryan go for GSoC?
<jsgotangco> he's pretty ok and finished the project, but he didn't do so much on having his project included in universe at least
<pygi> hm, did he continue with being involved in Ubuntu? I don't see him really
<jsgotangco> he would have wanted to, but he said he has problems connecting to irc from his campus so i told him to at least get involved in the mailing list or something
<jsgotangco> he did send one email though
<jsgotangco> heh
<pygi> right, heh :P
<pygi> think we should package that stuff for him today?
<pygi> would be nice to have it at least in universe for edgy
<jsgotangco> do you know where its located?
<jsgotangco> its in a sourceforge project site
<pygi> http://sourceforge.net/projects/py-education
<jsgotangco> he used to be available on jabber regularly, but by the end of the program he doesn't go much online anymore
<pygi> indeed
<jsgotangco> but then he actually *finished* the project as intended
<jsgotangco> he would have wanted to have this on universe for sure, but he probably didnt know much of the process and since he couldn't come on IRC, he had a hard time interacting on email
<pygi> well, can't we package it for him right now? :P
<jsgotangco> pygi: sure we can
<jsgotangco> pygi: are you going to?
<jsgotangco> pygi: this past few weeks has been hectic to me, i could barely come online even 
<pygi> jsgotangco: dunno, depends on how much work it would involve (and hopefully it doesn't need edgy-deps at this moment)
<pygi> jsgotangco: it's also interesting he provides ubuntu package on SF
<jsgotangco> he surely did his homework
<pygi> indeed
<jsgotangco> should i send him an email regarding this?
<jsgotangco> and try to have it on the archives if its still possible?
<pygi> I'm kinda confused with all the files on SF page tho....does every part needs to be included? or is quizzical sum-of-summarum everything?
<pygi> jsgotangco: perhaps, but he would have to respond very quick if we want it in edgy
<jsgotangco> well what he did was split all the components
<pygi> jsgotangco: also quizzical contains server, lib, bla, bla, all in one
<pygi> hm, right
<pygi> but how I know what to package? All things that are there?
<jsgotangco> but it seems some of the packages may have the same stuff inside
<pygi> indeed
<jsgotangco> i just looked at quizzical and quizzical-student
<pygi> if nothing, this things certainly need to be further developed and maintained
<pygi> he did a magnificient job
<jsgotangco> what's your email? ill put you on CC
<pygi> mario.danic@gmail.com
<pygi> ups, that'll be in logs now
<pygi> damn :P
<jsgotangco> lol
<pygi> what exactly you gonna send? :)
<pygi> the deb packages even seem to be properly named
<jsgotangco> just an email asking him about it
<pygi> oki :)
<pygi> ask him if he has source packages for all that stuff
<pygi> if he does, I can inspect them & fix if something needs fixing
<pygi> jsgotangco: and ask him what exactly needs to be included so this would be functional....all or just some (which?) components
<pygi> jsgotangco: thanks :)
<pygi> hey gnomefreak cbx33 
<gnomefreak> hi
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<cbx33> bbl
<pygi> jsgotangco: building chroot right now
<pygi> will brb
<neurogeek> .seen mhz
<neurogeek> !seen mhz
<ubotu> I last saw mhz (n=mhz@moinmoin/fan/mhz) 16h 30m 57s ago, changing nicks
<neurogeek> uff 16 hours??
<pygi> jsgotangco: you think we'll here from him today?
<jsgotangco> hopefully
<jsgotangco> he'll probably reply when i wake up
<pygi> dunno when exactly is freeze...I take it 14:00 UTC
<jsgotangco> what can you build from his sources?
<ogra> could someone else check the i386 install CD as well ? 
<pygi> jsgotangco: I can see if debian/ dir is written correctly
<sbalneav> ogra: I'm downloading it at home, I'll try it tonight.
<ogra> i have a hardlock if i try to reboot and am not sure its not my amd64 causing it with the i386 kernel
<ogra> apart from that its ready for beta ;)
<sbalneav> You want two network cards right?  To test the autoconfig of the ltsp interface?
<pygi> ogra: I'll see what I can do given my bad connection today :-/
<ogra> with all bells and whistles
<ogra> sbalneav, right
<sbalneav> ok, Will do when I get home.
<ogra> i test with three here ...
<ogra> works fine including the autoconfig ...
<ogra> one NIC should give a warning that you need to set up ltsp manually ... two should just configure the second one silently and three or more should gve a selection list
<sbalneav> Cool.
<ogra> if anyone wants to test but doesnt own a thin client, /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/qemu-ltsp is very handy ;)
<jsgotangco> whoa
<jsgotangco> qemu-ltsp
<jsgotangco> i didnt know it was possible
<ogra> its wonderful for testing ...
<pygi> jsgotangco: we have that some time now already
<jsgotangco> i thought only vmware was able to do it
<jsgotangco> pygi: its possible?
<jsgotangco> it seems to have clean deps
<pygi> jsgotangco: its possible what? qemu-ltsp or ryan's work? :P
<jsgotangco> pygi: ryan's
<jsgotangco> sorry
<pygi> jsgotangco: well, it would be possible (I could package it from scratch probably) If I would just know what exactly do we need to package
<jsgotangco> pygi: ok hopefully ryan responds earlier, im going to catch my zzzz and just check tomorrow morning
<mario_> damn connection!!!
<LaserJock> man I fell like crap this morning
<LaserJock> ogra: how's the beta treating you?
* RichEd serves LaserJock a plate of steaming crap ... here you go
<sbalneav> What, did you hand him a Windows CD?
<sbalneav> (sound of rimshot)
<pygi> sbalneav: lol :)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: heh
<LaserJock> I need caffeine
<sbalneav> Aaaaalways with the windows jokes. :)
<RichEd> Keeps us sane ... have to have someone to kick and it can't always be the dog !
<pygi> sbalneav: should get Brasero in universe today I hope if I'm upto packaging :)
<LaserJock> I did 16hrs on Ubuntu yesterday (not much to show for it though :( ) and ended at 2:30 am
<LaserJock> very unusual for me
<LaserJock> so this morning I'm reaping the consequences
<LaserJock> and edubuntu-menus is still in binary NEW :/
<cbx33> LaserJock, what are you doing up
<cbx33> you need the extra sleep dude
* cbx33 and AliasVegas are going to look at a new house to rent tonight
<rodarvus> cbx33, on a semi-related subject - I bought my house early this year
<cbx33> rodarvus, which we could afford to buy
<cbx33> s/which/wish
<rodarvus> just yesterday I spent half of my monthly salary paying a double monthly payment :/
<LaserJock> cbx33: gotta .. keep .. going
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> I should start trying to sell my house
<cbx33> LaserJock, you have a house
<LaserJock> yep, had it for 3 years now
<cbx33> wow
<LaserJock> just a little one (for here)
<LaserJock> 904 sq. ft.
<LaserJock> 2 car garage
<LaserJock> and a rather large back yard for our area
<LaserJock> which I'm trying to landscape
<LaserJock> nevada desert wasn't meant for green grass :-)
<cbx33> LaserJock, nice
<jingl3> ogra, hi again! I tried your suggestions... 
<jingl3> With no lts.conf all the terminals simply show the BusyBox prompt. 
<jingl3> The using XSERVER = trident, the Mini-ITX box boots right up the the X screen, then shows the tty login.
<jingl3> It's a puzzle 'cos the Mini-ITX box boots fine with Breezy
* RichEd -> dinner : back for meeting
<LaserJock> doh, there's a meeting today?
<ogra> jingl3, thats a bug in ldm ... look for a line with usplash in it in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ldm and chaneg the option from stop to start 
<cbx33> bbl guys
<ogra> jingl3, i have prepared a fix for dapper-updates already for that issue ... but there are some more and i want to upload them all together ...
<Amaranth> LaserJock: in about 2 hours
<Amaranth> 2 hours 20 minutes
<Amaranth> today is bug day too
<pygi> ogra: any chance you'll have time for me tommorow early morning?
<pygi> If all goes well, a lot of packages for review
<LaserJock> Amaranth: and "stuff as much crack in Universe as you can" day ;-)
<pygi> LaserJock: you could also be helpful :P
<LaserJock> we'll have to see
<LaserJock> I'm really busy
<pygi> ah, ok :(
<ogra> pygi, depends on how much testing i have left until then 
<LaserJock> but who knows, poke me when you need a review and I'll tell you "yep" or "nope" 
<Amaranth> dang
<Amaranth> i have to get beryl packages out before the meeting
<Amaranth> but i don't get home until 30 minutes before the meeting :P
<mhz> RichEd, ping
* mhz is on IRC via Java
<RichEd> hi mhz
<RichEd> Java s/w Java island or Java coffee ?
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> RichEd: i am at Watts (the huge Chilean company I mentioned some time ago)
<mhz> RichEd, also I have been talking to lguerra 
<RichEd> What's up there at Watts. Are you doing some work for them ?
<mhz> thx, for helping him, esp. since I am very 'unstable' oin web lately
<RichEd> Yep. I've been chatting with lguerra as well.
<mhz> RichEd, yup, little consulting work
<RichEd> We've agreed to help him with the Colombia presentation as follows:
<mhz> RichEd, there are many tests they are performing, at desktop and server levels
<RichEd> 1) Pygi and I are preparing a presentation for Hungary event.
<RichEd> 2) we will compare with what you said you had for lguerra, and do best effort combo
<mhz> cool
<RichEd> 3) he will use the 2 schoolgirls who have been helping with edubuntu.org spanish transalation to translate presentation to Spanish
<mhz> I will provide URL for the presentation I have been working on
<mhz> though it was fist conceived for Ubuntu general purposes   Edubuntu, later on
<RichEd> 4) I have suggested that he use the 2 schoolgirls to deliver the persentation to his audience, and to talk about how they themselves are involved with and help with and benefit from the Edubuntu community effort
<mhz> it is made in MoinMoin wiki and uses a real cool moin plugin that renders page as fullscreen presentation with menu and all
<RichEd> i.e. if two little schoolgirls are not afraid, how can they be afraid ?
<RichEd> We are chatting about the possibility of:
<mhz> good point
<RichEd> 1. Ubuntu T-shirts for the girls ... and possibly a certificate saying thanks for their good work (on edubuntu.org translation) ... for a school hand-over ceremony
* mhz is now working on a simple 'thanks kind of diploma'  with Edubuntu LoCo Cl logo and key fingerprint ;)
<RichEd> good :) we can piggyback ... just something "in recognition of the hard work and spirit" etc.
<mhz> I can provide the SVG (source file) for anyone interested on using it as base
<RichEd> good :)
* mhz will send it to the ML
<RichEd> 2. and possibly a video or photo welcome and introduction for the presentation ... Mark best if possible ...
<mhz> RichEd, there is gonna take place the IV Forum for Education Libre in Venezuela
<RichEd> Thanks for the offer of help with the persentation.
<RichEd> RichEd, there is gonna take place the IV Forum for Education Libre in Venezuela <- sorry please clarify ?
<mhz> my friend of the ISEIT institute is one of the leading speakers
<RichEd> is this the same venue / event as the lguerra one ?
<mhz> http://mhz.homelinux.org/tcwiki/PesentacionesUbuntu
<mhz> nope, a diff event
<mhz> Usually, since July on, there are many events related to FLOSS in LAm
<mhz> in Chile, 2 are also coming
<mhz> being the one sponsored by one of the most important universities, the event we all must go.
<mhz> Universidad Tecnica Santa Maria
<mhz> RichEd, BTW, pressin on 'El Mundo Ubuntu' at this URL will opne the SLideShow http://mhz.homelinux.org/tcwiki/PesentacionesUbuntu
<mhz> RichEd, on a totally diff topic... I also requested some materials to marilize via special-requests-web-form
<mhz> but havent heard form her yert
<mhz> -r
<mhz> And, last but not least... we should keep an eye close to the Fluxbuntu project. Joejaxx and have been talking lot lately
<mhz> and they will provide a Fluxbuntu Education Edition (FEE)
<mhz> this will allowed the use of PII and PIII without the need of GNOME and some other heavy libs
<RichEd> this is good news: <mhz> RichEd, yup, little consulting work <mhz> RichEd, there are many tests they are performing, at desktop and server levels <- is any of it Ubuntu or Open Source
* pygi just saw his name, so he peeked in
<RichEd> mhz: I'll check out the presentation ... just a bit now with some work for the meeting
<mhz> for meeting?
<mhz> oghhh, WED!!!
<mhz> 20:30 UTC?
<pygi> 20:00 UTC 
<mhz> pygi: thx
<mhz> this not having web at workplace is killing me
<highvoltage> ogra, LaserJock: good evening
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage 
<pygi> highvoltage: !!!
<highvoltage> hey pygi 
<pygi> hey highvoltage :)
<highvoltage> ogra, LaserJock: I only had 2.5h sleep last night, may I be excused from the meeting tonight?
<mhz> hJonathan, hi there mon! long time no see ya
<highvoltage> hey mon!
<highvoltage> that's the first time I saw someone put an additioanl 'h' there
<highvoltage> i'll have to update my 'how to spell jonathan' howto.
<RichEd> hhello hhighvoltage
<highvoltage> hi RichEd 
<highvoltage> :)
<mhz> you!!!
* mhz will get launch now...after 12 hours with no eating :)
<mhz> that explains the mispelling
* mhz will get back in 60 minuts
<RichEd> highvoltage: you may be excused from the meeting ... I'll make your apologies if you'd like.
<RichEd> LaserJock: you've also been burning it hard ... so we will understand if energy levels are low.
<highvoltage> RichEd: that would be appreciated
<highvoltage> RichEd: btw, are you going to come by Futurex this week?
<RichEd> highvoltage: I'm so out of touch with local events ... is it at CTICC ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: yes, it is
<RichEd> Do you have some sort of presence / interest ?
<RichEd> And it there aurl I can check out ? times etc.
<highvoltage> we have a stand there
<RichEd> *a url
<RichEd> brb
<highvoltage> (we tuxlab)
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> hey pygi 
<highvoltage> we (clu)g is there too.
<highvoltage> RichEd: http://www.futurexcape.co.za/
<pygi> cbx33: 7 things to package this night :P
<cbx33> package things from scratch
<RichEd> thanks highvoltage ... will check it out and wil definately make a turn past ... will let you know when so we can chat to clug and catch a coffee
<pygi> cbx33: indeed, from scratch :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: great
<cbx33> pygi, wow
<highvoltage> i'm going to retire now and sleep right through to 7am tomorrow morning :)
<pygi> cbx33: wanna help? But be prepared not to sleep :)
<highvoltage> goodnight all!
<pygi> night highvoltage 
<highvoltage> I'll read the logs when I wake up :)
<highvoltage> night pygi!
<cbx33> pygi, eeek....I'll try to help out
<cbx33> but I won;t be able stay up all night ;)
<pygi> cbx33: :P
<cbx33> is this stuff for edgy?
<pygi> indeed :P
<cbx33> how is it gonna get in
<sbalneav> Back
<cbx33> isn't it past feature freeze
<pygi> cbx33: well, universe
<cbx33> yikes FF is tomorrow for that isn't it?
<LaserJock> hence the rush ;-)
<cbx33> pygi, what packages are they?
<pygi> cbx33: indeed, tommorow :P
<LaserJock> I should do about the same tonight as well
<pygi> cbx33: Brasero and the work Ryan did for GSoC
<jingl3> ogra: Thanks, I'll make that change in ldm. The server is offline, it will be a while before it gets more updates.
<LaserJock> pygi: what did Ryan do?
<pygi> LaserJock: very short version :P
<pygi> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/appinfo.html?csaid=C17297D7994B719A
<nixternal> how is edubuntu doc work going?  everything prim and proper
<sbalneav> nixternal: I've been working on bringing the ltsp side of things up to date.
<nixternal> cool...i am going to start looking over what is going on and hopefully start contributing to this project...i think this is the best marketable idea Ubuntu has right now
<nixternal> just need a good solid KDE version ;)
<pygi> nixternal: be shhh :)
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> i should have ducked, as I knew that was coming
<pygi> nixternal: but Edubuntu handbook rocks ;)
<nixternal> w/o a doubt, but so does KDE Edu ;)
* nixternal ducks this time
* nixternal jumps to avoid the foot sweep as well
<LaserJock> well, that's why we ship it nixternal 
<pygi> nixternal: don't worry, I won't shoot you, you know :P
<LaserJock> it's not that we *want* KDE apps surely ;-)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> LaserJock: oh sure, hide the fact that you are a raging KDE user in here.  Everyone, I have proof that LaserJock in fact dislikes Gnome and LOVES KDE!!!
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> pwnd
<nixternal> just don't ask me to show you the proof..i can't do that..it is classified still
<LaserJock> oh whatever
<LaserJock> I'm an equal oppritunity DE user ;-)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> me too...KDE and KDE
<pygi> nixternal: :P
<nixternal> i wonder if hplip is going to be fixed soon...i can't print ;)
<mhz> re
<mhz> i have installed Edubuntu but enduser prefers the 'ubuntu' splash at booting time :(
<LaserJock> well, that's pretty easy to change
* pygi nods
<mhz> how can i set it to ubuntu?
<LaserJock> update-alternatives
<LaserJock> mhz: sudo update-alternatives --config usplash-artwork.so
<mhz> IIRC those were the commands i issued
<mhz> i got 2 alternatives
<mhz> edubuntu and ubuntu
<mhz> I choose #2, the ubuntu one
<LaserJock> right
<mhz> but when I reboot, at the killing process I see Ubuntu  but, at booting time, still ubuntu
<mhz> edubuntu i mean
<mhz> and when I reboot, at the killing process I see Ubuntu  but, at booting time, still ubuntu
<mhz> edubuntu i mean
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> and when I reboot, at the killing process I see Ubuntu  but, at booting time, still edubuntu
<mhz> that
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> sorry
* mhz sighs
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> that's odd
* mhz will try on his machine now, just in case
<LaserJock> I've done it before
<mhz> VERY odd
<LaserJock> Edubuntu meeting soon?
<RichEd> t-8
<RichEd> ===== edubuntu meeting ====== 8 mins ===== #ubuntu-meeting
<rodarvus> quick reboot before meeting begins
<willvdl> evening all
<RichEd> greetz willvdl ...thanks for the email.
<mhz> LaserJock: 
<mhz> *     1        /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-default.so      2        /usr/lib/usplash/edubuntu-splash.so
<mhz> it is weired
<mhz> I may be missing something there
* ogra waves
<cbx33> hey ogra 
<mhz> I had the '* ' symbols togetehre
<mhz> nnow I have * for default and   for the othere
<LaserJock> mhz: man update-alternatives and make sure you were doing the right thing
<RichEd> ===== edubuntu meeting ======> now <===== #ubuntu-meeting
<cbx33> ping crimsun 
<meuserj> quick ltsp question...
<sbalneav> Yes?
<meuserj> I'm creating a script for starting rdesktop by combining the LTSP script and the (ed)ubuntu xstart script... I got it working perfectly, except for one thing:
<meuserj> when I assign it to SCREEN_01 it starts up fine, but keyboard input stops working
<sbalneav> Hmm
<sbalneav> Can you try it on screen 02?
<meuserj> when I assign it to SCREEN_07, keyboard and everything work, but after startup, the screen goes back to TTY1 for some reason
<ogra> meuserj, in dapper ? 
<meuserj> ogra, yeah
<ogra> try if that still happens if you remove the splash argument in the pxelinux config
<sbalneav> ogra: Interaction with either the getty, or usplash?
<sbalneav> yeah, thought so.
<ogra> usplash ... 
<ogra> very likely
<ogra> we need to call /etc/init.d/usplash start (yes start, dont ask) in the ltsp-client initscript ... i have a fix prepared for dapper ... but thats waiting for some other stuff
<ogra> but will likely be in dapper-updates before edgy releases
<meuserj> ok, that did the trick.. thanks.
<ogra> :)
<ogra> you should also be able ot just do the fix in the ltsp-client initscript i described above ...
<cbx33> ogra, I still didn't solv that tftp prolbem
<ogra> it calls stop there instead of start
<cbx33> must be the mobo
* pygi shoots himself in the leg
* RichEd mops up the blood
<pygi> it's actually sad how useless I can be :P
<mario_> cbx33: ergh, sorry, lag over 30s
<cbx33> np
<pips1> ogra, I want to use your 'rsyncer.sh' script to update the old daily to the latest... I read the --help, but I don't quite remember: do I need to place the old daily iso in the same dir as the script?
<ogra> nope an edubuntu subdir
<pips1> ta
<pips1> ogra: so, unless i use the --create option, it will only sync isos that already exist in subdirs?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> else it will just download them
<meuserj> ok, I've got one more question.... There is an unused ide flash drive on the thin client I am dealing with... I have formatted it as swap space, and added the fstab entry to the nfs mount that it uses, but it doesn't seem to be picking it up... is there something that I am missing?
<ogra> yes, the initscript is likely disabled ...
<ogra> look for swap in the intiscripts dir and link an S script to rc2.d 
<ogra> we have ful swap support in edgy ...
<ogra> (even ful network swapping)
<meuserj> yeah, I was reading about that
<pips1> ogra: erm, I just tried ./rsyncher.sh and it didn't do anything?! 
<ogra> hmm, i didnt use it for a while ...
<pips1> I'll just try some of the -- options, then :)
<pips1> trial and error :)
<cbx33> darn it ogra I wish I'd have gotten grasynco out in time
<cbx33> got caught up
<cbx33> pips1, next release there is a nice grahpical tool called grasynco to do it all for you
<ogra> pips1, rsync -az --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/daily/current/edgy-install-i386.iso edgy-install-i386.iso (in the edubuntu dir where the iso is ... mind oyu, thats from the top of my head)
<mhz> re
<mhz> ogra: why is that after specifying DNS at either the network-admin tool or via /etc/resolv.conf, settings are wiped out and none stays there after rebooting?
<mhz> oops, hi ogra 
<pips1> ogra: so that is using "plain" 'rsync' instead of your 'rsyncer.sh' ... right
<ogra> mhz, are you using network manager or do you have installed evil stuff like resolvconf ? 
<ogra> pips1, thats what rsyncer actually does :)
<mhz> LaserJock: my last try regarding usplash will be a tip I got:sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-YOUR VERSION 
<LaserJock> odd
<mhz> ogra: i installed Edubuntu server but user prefers/needs  ubuntu look ;)
<mhz> so, yes, I have resolvconf (default in my laptop too)
<ogra> ouch
<ogra> thats crap
<mhz> yup
<ogra> remove it and your resolv.conf wont be touched
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I had to figure that out the other day
<LaserJock> I couldn't figure out why my network wasn't working when I rebooted
<ogra> for the initramfs ... use sudo update-initramfs -u
<mhz> plus, after user sets dns values viua network-admin tool, these setting still need to be manualy specify by choosing a 'location', instead of just rebooting using previous setting
<mhz> ogra: so, basically, you suggest:
<mhz> remove resolvconf app
<mhz> then
<mhz> run initramfs?
<mhz> LaserJock: you already solved it?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> the network thing
<mhz> that same way?
<LaserJock> remove resolvconf
* mhz is rebooting to proceed removing
<pips1> ogra: I'm almost done rsyncing the amd64-install, which I will try to test with a server with 2 nics setup
<ogra> i just discovered a bug on powerpc ...
<ogra> i hope it doesnt affect amd64 as well
<ogra> :(
<pips1> ogra: what live-cd arches do you want me to test, in what priority order?
<ogra> all you like ... any prio you want ...
<pips1> ok
<ogra> i havent tested any yet
<pips1> ic
<ogra> and i'll have a hard time getting that fix into ppc
<pips1> :/
<pips1> you know what's going wrong already?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> a stipud oversight 
<pips1> ouch
<mhz> YEAH!!! it works
<ogra> i moved mknbi to the architecture specific dependencies already, but missed to remove it from ltsp-build-client 
<mhz> though we see a nice resolvcong   ---  failed  at booting time :
<ogra> so it tries to install it on all arches
<mhz> )
<ogra> i'm not sure amd64 has mknbi
<pips1> mhz: what works?
<ogra> but i know ppc doesnt
<pips1> ogra: what is mknbi ?
<ogra> the etherboot piece that creates netboot kernels
<pips1> ach, never mind
<mhz> LaserJock: also, the usplash got fixed by running the dpkg-reconfigure thing
<mhz> ogra: thx!
<mhz> LaserJock: thx!
<LaserJock> cool
<mhz> oh, well, maybe there is only another issue left.
<mhz> Both on his edubuntu server and in my laptop, smaba seems to be crappy
<pips1> crappy?
<pips1> you can't access any windows partitions? or... ?
<mhz> pips1: if we try to install/remove samba, it complains a lot
<mhz> and does not let us
<mhz> do anything
<mhz> aptitude shows it installed
<mhz> also, after a dist-upgrade, I even got firefox segmentation fault
<pips1> :/
<mhz> and some X issues that force me to restart x
<mhz> anyone else has had issues after upgrading?
<pips1> that sounds pretty unstable to me
#edubuntu 2006-09-28
<pips1> I tried a dist-upgrade and I had a problem and got stuck completely
<pips1> but that was a week ago with build 22-sep
<mhz> hmm
<mhz> yeah
<mhz> well, I am about to upgrade just now
<mhz> (last time was 1 week ago)
<mhz> oops, will have to close X...else, memory will complain
<pips1> during the upgrade process, I was asked to decide about the configuration of file `/etc/login.defs'. I chose 'default' rather than 'install the package maintainer's version' and after that, my sudo password wasn't recognised anymore :(
* pips1 marvels at the bugs with 'critical' and 'high' in the bug tracker
<pips1> .
<nixternal> whats up with Firefox still displaying 6.06?  has a fix been released yet?
<Burgundavia> nixternal: that is part of ubuntu-doc
<nixternal> whoever did the current background, good job as well...i like it
<nixternal> Burgundavia: ubuntu-doc was updated yesterday with the fix
<Burgundavia> ah, then it will be in the new build
<nixternal> well, apt-get upgrade should grab them, i would think
<nixternal> i forgot to look at my Ubuntu setup before I jsut wiped it ;)
<ogra> nixternal, we'll fix it after beta ... its wasnt in my focus 
<ogra> (but i'm aware of it and we discussed it in the edubuntu meeting today)
<nixternal> cool
* nixternal looks over the meeting backlog
<nixternal> actually..i will do that after class ;)
<ogra> would be cool to have a complete new page ... but worst case i'll just quickly update the verson there
<pips1> ogra: what is the 'primary' network interface for a LTSP setup? is the 'primary interface' intended as the internet interface or the thin clients interface?
<RichEd> night all ...
<pips1> good night RichEd
<RichEd> :)
<pips1> ogra: ^^^^ ?
* pips1 can't wait to continue the installation :-)
<ogra> pips1, there is no "primary" ... 
<ogra> you get a list from netcfg if it detects more than one
<pips1> well, upon installation, I get asked to choose one as a "primary network interface"
<pips1> eth0 bla
<pips1> eth1 blabla
<ogra> right
<ogra> the one you chooes is used for outbound connections (internet)
<ogra> the second will be used automaticaly for ltsp
<pips1> I got an onboard gigabit nic, which i want to choose for the thin clients network, naturally, and I got an oldish 10/100 pci-nic which I want to use for the internet connection
<pips1> ah, ok, thanks
<ogra> the netcfg screen should show you the names ...
<pips1> I does
<ogra> (the blabla you see)
<pips1> *it
<ogra> right
<ogra> the ltsp chooser doesnt, thats the bug i mentioned in the meeting ... 
<pips1> I noticed
<ogra> if you onyl have two NICs you wont see the selector at all thugh
<pips1> :)
<pips1> well, I thought I only had two? but I am shown the selector?! (/me checks the mainboard manual to see if there is a second nic on the board already)
<ogra> you are at the ltsp selector already ? 
<ogra> thats shown after "building ltsp chroot"
<pips1> oh?
<pips1> I got there pretty quickly after choosing the country and after it checked the cd dirs...
<ogra> i'm talking about the second selector that doesnt show the names of the network cards, only ethX
<pips1> right
<ogra> that belongs to ltsp
<pips1> no, I'm at the first selector
<ogra> and is shown after the ltsp part
<ogra> right
<ogra> thats netcfg
<pips1> so what does that do?
<ogra> ltsp will just picjk the other if you have only two and not show the selector
<pips1> ah
<ogra> or it will show a warning that you have to configure ltsp manually if you only have one NIC at all
<pips1> so netcfg always asks if there is more than one...
<ogra> right
<ogra> and ltsp always if there is >2 or =1
<ogra> or if your NIC has the ltsp IP range (192.168.0.X)
<ogra> or was it 10.X
<ogra> i cant think anymore
<pips1> makes sense to me (since regular ubuntu users aren't likely to have several nics, they wont be hassled by this question)
<ogra> right
<pips1> ogra: take care of yourself 
<pips1> I mean it
<ogra> well, i had a whisky or two already :) i'll go to bed soon and just notify toillef that i need new isos in the morning ...
<pips1> it's all good and well to to provide people with floss software, but look after your health, please :)
<ogra> just cross your fingers that my bandwith is better by then
<pips1> fingers crossed
<ogra> dont worry about m yhealth, its fine ;)
<ogra> i'm just tired ...
<pips1> well well, ok
<ogra> these release days are mostly filled with waiting for your isos 
<pips1> right 
<ogra> so i'm pretty tired once i have them and then start testing ...
<pips1> it's a shame that the internet connection can't really be "timed" reliably...
<pips1> and watching progress bars is strangely addictive :) but completely mind-numbing
<pips1> progress bar addiction, heh
<ogra> heh
<pips1> ogra: build ltsp chroot fails on amd64
<ogra> right
<pips1> at 50%
<ogra> on cosole 4 you will see it complaining about mknbi
<ogra> (alt-f4)
<pips1> strange, can't get console 4, i'm stuck in the install process menu
<ogra> or did it fail with a different error ? 
<ogra> oh
<pips1> well, I *did* press enter when i got the "build ltsp chroot failed" message, and that took me to the install process menu
<pips1> and it isn't frozen or anything
<pips1> but pressing alt-f4 doesn't give me the console...
<ogra> well, alt-f4 or ctrl-atl-f4 sould get you to the console
<pips1> I tried both
<pips1> really bizarre
<ogra> yeah
<pips1> I mean, the keyboard seems to be working normally, i.e. I can navigate up and down in the menu
<pips1> hm
* pips1 checks numlock etc
* pips1 wishes he had one of his old ibm keyboards handy (it's in a box at another location)
<pips1> hm, this is a usb keyboard, but it worked fine with dapper
<pips1> ogra: I have now connected my apple keyboard and I can now access console 4 (so there seems to be a bug regarding my other usb keyboard)
<pips1> however, the console is full of keyboard related messages, so I can see the original error message anymore... I must be able to find it in logs somewhere though, no?
<pips1> *can't
<ogra> yes, its in /var/log/syslog
<pips1> but I don't have a shell available...
<ogra> alt-f2
<pips1> blank screen
<ogra> not a message that tels yu to hit enter ? 
<pips1> grmbl
<ogra> should be there on one of the consoles
<pips1> nope, no message
<pips1> but after I hit enter, I did indeed get a prompt :)
<ogra> ah, might be caused by the former keyboard prob
<pips1>  /var/log/syslog: no such file or directory 
<pips1> ah, sorry, hold on
<pips1> I tried to use 'cat' rather than 'more'
* pips1 sees his former keyboard regognised in the syslog
<pips1> strange, anyway
<pips1> what the h...?!
<pips1> after quitting more, I don't see my keyboard input appear at the prompt
<pips1> ?!?
<pips1> is there anything more intelligent than 'more' i can use to find whether it failed at mknbi ?
<pips1> there isn't 'less' or 'grep' available :(
<pips1> ogra: the last messages in the syslog aren't about mknbi, but apt-install: ltsp-server .... in-target: I: Retrieving Release... in-target E: Invalid Release file, no entry for main/binary-6/Packages ... in-target: error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally ... Menu item 'ltsp-client-builder failed with error code 1 ... 
<pips1> hmmm
<pips1> so maybe I have a buggered cd where the ltsp-server package is missing?!
<pips1> got to get some sleep now, cu tomorrow
<Burgundavia> ogra: you up still?
<pips1> morning
<LaserJock> little early for you cbx33, isn't it?
<cbx33> LaserJock, nay
<pips1> hey LaserJock, I was thinking the same thing :)
<cbx33> little late for you though
<cbx33> get to bed LaserJock 
<pips1> LaserJock: are you testing?
<cbx33> right I have to go wash up and make breakfast and lunch
<cbx33> I'll see you guys later on
<pips1> cu
<LaserJock> cya cbx33 
<LaserJock> pips1: no, I don't test :/
* pips1 crosses his fingers that the latest build will install
<pips1> but you use dapper in daily life?
<LaserJock> I have 2 dapper machines and 1 edgy
<LaserJock> although I mostly work from an iMac and OS X (work)
<pips1> ic
<pips1> for me, it's about 70% dapper / 30% winXP (for photoshop, msie web testing) time-wise. I haven't got around to install wine and/or wmware on my dapper installation yet
* TeePOG is back
<pips1> ogra: amd64 from daily 28-sep build failed to build ltsp chroot, error message on console 4 is the same "invalid Release file, no entry for main/binary-6/Packages"
<TeePOG> good morning everyone
<pips1> hi TeePOG
<TeePOG> morning pips1, how goes?
<pips1> personally, very well, thanks. edubuntu-cd-testing-wise: could be better :)
<TeePOG> so i hear... i'd contribute, but i'm aware of where my strengths lie, and my coding-fu isn't strong yet ^.^
<pips1> i386 live cd works
<TeePOG> but...
<TeePOG> i hear a "But..." in that sentence
<pips1> nope
<TeePOG> ah
* TeePOG looks at his coffee... this stuff ain't working
<pips1> I like the popularity indication in add/remove applications
<pips1> well, since not many people have enabled the popularity contest, at the moment, all apps installed by default get five stars and almost all others get one star
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> that will be an issue
<pips1> hopefully users will start to enable popcon
<pips1> LaserJock: yeah
<pips1> devs and maintainers might complain, but more importantly, general users will ask why the popularity ratings are so skewed
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> popcon kind of relys on having a level playing field to start with
* pips1 notices *lots* of unfamiliar new apps in the education section
<LaserJock> which is certianly not the case for Main vs Universe apps
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> yeah
<pips1> I wonder how the "scale" of the popularity is determined...
<pips1> all education apps that are installed in edubuntu have one single star, obviously, none of the edubuntu users have enabled popcon
<LaserJock> well, the number of edubuntu users probably isn't that much compared to Ubuntu
<pips1> yep
* pips1 now wonders about the apps that have two stars
<TeePOG> does popcon work in dapper?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> it's just not turned on by default
<TeePOG> apt-get install popcon?
<TeePOG> or how do i enable?
<LaserJock> it should already be installed
<LaserJock> I think you need to dpkg-reconfigure it
<TeePOG> it's not installed... brbr
<TeePOG> brb*
<TeePOG> oh
<TeePOG> called popularity-contest
<TeePOG> not popcon
<TeePOG> right
<RichEd> mornin'
<LaserJock> TeePOG: sudo dpkg-reconfigure popularity-contest
<LaserJock> hi RichEd 
<TeePOG> done LaserJock, thanks
<pips1> e.g. thunderbird, java, adobe reader, xine, vlc, various kde apps, things like emacs, terminal in super user mode, ... hmm
<pips1> ^^^^ they all have a two star rating
<LaserJock> when we start getting decent popcon data we'd like to start prioritizing work with it
<pips1> popularity contest is pretty skewed at the moment
<LaserJock> in MOTU
<TeePOG> but hang on, will apt then get the popularity rating from the repos as well?
<LaserJock> TeePOG: what do you mean?
<pips1> at the moment, it seems to pan out like this more or less: 5 stars : default ubuntu apps, 2 stars: default kubuntu apps, plus apps that are popular with popcon-savvy users (i.e. the developers and geeks)
<TeePOG> will an apt frontend like Synaptic also display popularity ratings? or is it just on the Web?
<pips1> TeePOG: It is in the "add/remove applications" in the applications menu
<pips1> the stars are displayed next to the applications listed in there...
<LaserJock> if we get a way of having decent data then it'll probably be in synaptic and adept too I would think
<TeePOG> see, this is why i have coming in halfway through a conversation
<TeePOG> *hate
<LaserJock> hehe
<TeePOG> anyway, mine doesn't show that... should I reboot first?
<LaserJock> show what?
<LaserJock> the stars?
<LaserJock> are you on edgy?
<TeePOG> yah
<TeePOG> no, dapper... that's what i was asking earlier
<LaserJock> well, the stars are in edgy
<TeePOG> aww ok, nm then...
<pips1> LaserJock: yes, the stars are in the edgy version only
<TeePOG> i'm not upgrading, this is a production machine
<TeePOG> but i'm glad to help with popcon data
<pips1> :)
<TeePOG> anyway, i'm very impressed with Autopackage recently... have you thought of including support for it?
<TeePOG> not that it's hard to install or anything... it'll just simplify some installations
<TeePOG> now that XaraXtreme is GPL, it's nice for our designers to have on the LTSP
<TeePOG> since there's no free Doze or OS X version
* TeePOG thinks flood protection will kick in and kickban him soon
<LaserJock> I don't think any of the developers like autopackage so I'm thinking it probably won't be supported any time soon
<TeePOG> coffee makes one more talkative and all that
<TeePOG> yah, it was only a thought...
* pips1 spots a new preferences item 'PalmOS Devices'
<pips1> amd64 live cd works
<LaserJock> RichEd: so are you talking with the webmasters about the Education space?
<LaserJock> or does there need to be more of a plan
<RichEd> LaserJock: there is a plan, and we are doveltailing ... here's the bigger picture:
<RichEd> Matt Nuzum is the new webmaster for Canonical - All Ubuntu Web Resources : he is reviewing the entire fleet
<RichEd> He has jurisdiction over us (education), but is happy for our independence, and we have as our internally appointed leader: drumroll .... Philipp Schroder
<HedgeMage> RichEd: Have time for a quick pm?
* pips1 parades back and forth in the background
<pips1> ;-)
* HedgeMage chuckles
<RichEd> HedgeMage: open up pm and fire away ... I'll get there after this thread
<LaserJock> ok so pips1 is going to hand Education (or Edubuntu?) website stuff
<LaserJock> *handle
<RichEd> Yep. Let me get the thread done ... continues:
<RichEd> Matt has been looking at the whole issue of "specialist or niche areas" and is proposing solution spaces ...
<RichEd> We are not 100% happy with the term, but the concept is good as follows:
<RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/education -> redirects to: www.ubuntu.com/solutions/education
<RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/medical -> redirects to: www.ubuntu.com/solutions/medical
<RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/icafe -> redirects to: www.ubuntu.com/solutions/icafe
<RichEd> etc.
<LaserJock> how many solition spaces are we talking about?
<RichEd> So this will be "our official home page on ubuntu" = ubuntu for education.
<RichEd> We, the internal community, will look after www.edubuntu.org and the relevent pages on wiki.edubuntu.org (which may merge more with wiki.ubuntu.org - under detabte abiut dual front end for same data)
<RichEd> debate about
<RichEd> same goes for help etc.
<RichEd> What you and I were taling about last night is one step removed:
<RichEd> ( ( ( core = official ubuntu ) internal community = edubuntu ) -> user community space <-)
<RichEd> we are still debatind whether it should have an official edubuntu or ubuntu name or have some pre or suffix to indicate that it is not company official
<RichEd> which is not just to "protect the official message" but also to allow us leeway & self control
<LaserJock> right
<RichEd> So if someone approaches ubuntu from the outside, in a formal way, they will land on:
<RichEd> www.ubuntu.com
<RichEd> Find an easy & quick link to :
<RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/education
<RichEd> and on there find an easy and quick link to:
<RichEd> *our new community space*
<pips1> RichEd: you mean, if someone comes through the official ubuntu "front door", i.e. enters www.ubuntu.com, rather than using google and landing a some subsection ...
<pips1> right
<RichEd> We however, will as a comunity, pump *our new community space* as the preferred direct landing zone from our point of view
<pips1> s/pump/pimp ? ;-)
<LaserJock> are you seeing this "community space" as an Edubuntu thing or Education thing? product vs. solution
<pips1> good question
<RichEd> Ubuntu and Education : and the front page needs to demystify and clarify and explain how the whole and parts fit together.
<RichEd> It also needs to be open enough and broad enough that we can have other people who are interested in open source and education, but not yet using our software to feel the need to join some of our maikling lists, or pop back for a regulr revisit.
<LaserJock> right
<RichEd> So, k12ltsp people need to feel welcome ... their input into what is good for a high school menu option, or which FOSS accounting package is good and easy to maintain is still relevant.
<LaserJock> yeah
<RichEd> Im my opinoin, there are lots of:
<RichEd> Open Source & Education web sites ... but often formal and geared to adults and suits an decision makers
<RichEd> + Teaching Content Web Sites web sites ... but not geared around Open Source
<RichEd> + Kids Community Web Sites ... but not geared around Open Source
<RichEd> If we can link the above into one space, with user/stakeholder category areas, we'll be more of a one stop site.
<RichEd> And get the most frequent revisits.
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I'd really love to see that for Science
<LaserJock> it's sorely lacking
<RichEd> "so what's this open source stuff all about and what does it mean to me"
<RichEd> "oh so I guess it does apply to me, are there any of my kind of people here"
<LaserJock> I've thought about creating a similar "space" for open source scientific development
<RichEd> "oh yes there they are and gee let me add my opinion to that comment"
<RichEd> etc.
<LaserJock> that would combine forums, ml, etc. with a sourceforge type thing to hold development
<RichEd> LaserJock: if we get this right ... we'll be a model you can follow ;)
<LaserJock> yeah, what I find right now for OSS science
<RichEd> I am very glad to have pips1 assisting ... he is bouncing well between practical on the ground requirements and high level conceptual & theoretical focus ...f
<LaserJock> is somebody creates a list of OSS software
<RichEd> It is a good fit, and I think our angle is different to what is out there.
<LaserJock> but not much of anything gets done toward actively pushing a community together
<LaserJock> around a common goal
<LaserJock> excellent, good work pips1 
<LaserJock> :-)
<RichEd> I made this comment to pips1 the other day : Amazon don't write books. Amazon don't review books. But look at the buzz they have created by their community.
<RichEd> Give a man a passion and a soap box ... and he will shout an opinion.
<RichEd> Provided he feels comfortable in front of the audience.
<LaserJock> mhm and feels like he's actually heard
<RichEd> Our users are not comfortable in front of Hard Core Linux People.
<LaserJock> at some level
<RichEd> Even I am not, once or twice a week !
<LaserJock> awww, we don't bite ;-)
<LaserJock> I know what you're talking about
<LaserJock> coming in as a chemist
<RichEd> LaserJock: You're Mild Core Linux People
<RichEd> ;)
<LaserJock> exactly
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: I beg to differ, I bite (but only when called for and only among consenting adults ;)
<LaserJock> too much information
<HedgeMage> LOL
* RichEd wonders if the army does that to you ;)
<LaserJock> reminds me of a blog post of a certain JaneW
<RichEd> ??
* HedgeMage grins at RichEd 
<HedgeMage> RichEd: a certain computer game she mentioned :)
<LaserJock> bliss
<HedgeMage> RichEd: I found the entry extremely sweet, TBH
<LaserJock> I believe
<RichEd> oh ... me remembers now ...
<LaserJock> anyway
<LaserJock> back to scare Linux geeks
<RichEd> Right enuff thoery & pontification (and biting) off to serious work !
<LaserJock> the thing that always is a problem for me is the inbetween
<LaserJock> we have ubuntuforums.org
<LaserJock> and we have ubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> but that inbetween space, interface between developer and user
<LaserJock> it can be rough
<RichEd> yep ... and ubuntuforums is still not far enough out there into the target space ...
<RichEd> We have "I use Ubuntu and I work to Educate"
<LaserJock> so I wonder how this new community space is going to fair
<RichEd> I want "I work to Educate and I use Ubuntu"
<LaserJock> yep
<RichEd> Subtle shift, but to me that's the difference between the 20:80 split
<RichEd> We're doing well in the 20 space, but cbx33 and others like him are quite unique ... we need to jump into the cookie cutter 80 space
* HedgeMage nods
<RichEd> The unifiorm masses.
<LaserJock> but do you have a plan for the interface? is that something you want to address, or do you want to keep it somewhat segregated?
<RichEd> And the *good* news is that the time is NOW ... all forces in the universe conspire to make this the ideal moment.
<LaserJock> speak of the devil ;-)
<RichEd> LaserJock: cbx33 like that ;)
* RichEd decides to pique the interest of mr savage
<HedgeMage> hey, cbx33 
<cbx33> what did I do now
<LaserJock> scp is totally broken
<cbx33> LaserJock: why aren't you in bed yet
<cbx33> LaserJock: I know
<LaserJock> and the sound were thrown out
<cbx33> well...not totally
<cbx33> pessulus integration is broken for now
<RichEd> If I was a japanese general, I would be very happy with the portent and omens ... 2007 is the year of Open Source Mainstream. We need to get ready to give it a good smack.
<ogra> pips1, can you get me the syslog of that failed amd64 install somehow ? thats very odd since there are no other CD builds planned i think
<LaserJock> sabdfl decided to revert the edgy sounds ;-)
<cbx33> LaserJock: really?
<cbx33> oh well
<LaserJock> cbx33: sorry had to give you a good morning wake up scare
<ogra> i dont care much abut ppc, but having no amd64 CD is quite fatal
* RichEd picks pete's jaw up off the floor
<cbx33> LaserJock: are you kidding or serious
<pips1> ogra: I only have a screenshot of the syslog (i.e. 1 screen worth of the last error msgs)
<RichEd> awwww schucksss ... we're messing with your head dude ...
<ogra> hmm
<cbx33> it's too early here for me to know what's going on
<cbx33> good i got worried
<cbx33> as an anonymous onctributor bought me a new soundcard last night
<LaserJock> cbx33: dude totally kidding, another 16 hr day is making me a little weird
* RichEd resets the reality button
<cbx33> phew
<HedgeMage> RichEd: Everyone's been saying "this is the year" since about 1996.  I tend to think it'll keep eeking in small spurts like it always has... hopefully edging toward less-infrequent medium-sized spurts over time.
<cbx33> I couldn't believe it.....somone funded my new soundcard......didn;'t tell me which one...then I found out it was a 189 M-Audio Delta 1010
<cbx33> I was so gobsmacked I almost fainted
<RichEd> LaserJock: expand on this ... not quite sure exactly waht you mean: but do you have a plan for the interface? is that something you want to address, or do you want to keep it somewhat segregated?
<cbx33> anyway, why am I the devil?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: yay! congrats.
<cbx33> HedgeMage: yeh....I'm still shocked
<cbx33> but very very grateful
<HedgeMage> cbx33: you deserve it, babe.  You rock.
<LaserJock> RichEd: I can easily imagine this community space becoming like the forums (users getting mad at devs, devs irritated with stupid posts)
<cbx33> thanks HedgeMage 
<cbx33> lisa has been working on the front cover
<pips1> RichEd: I think LaserJock was talking about improving the direct interaction of developers and end users (i.e. the current "gap" between ubuntuforums and ubuntu-devel ml)
<cbx33> wnt me to send a mockup to you later?
<LaserJock> so that your educators get to grumble or whatever, but it doesn't reach a place where anything can be done
<LaserJock> for instance, you mention maybe somebody has a good suggestion for dynamic menus, how am I going to get that info
<HedgeMage> cbx33: that would be very awesome
<cbx33> HedgeMage: when is our final deadline?
<cbx33> pygi mentioned he is going WOI for a while soon?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: If things continue as-is, we probably won't see a print version until sometime mid-October
<cbx33> ok
<pips1> ogra: would that amd64 error msg screenshot be of any use? should I send it to you?
<HedgeMage> (That's being a little optimistic considering pygi's going away and my real-life schedule chaos, but I don't think it's unrealistic... I hope.)
<TeePOG> i had a minor name confusion a couple days ago... got an email about Sabayon Linux, and immediately thought about Sabayon the ltsp menu manager
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> I went to the sabayon linux IRC channel at least twice
<ogra> pips1, no
<ogra> i'll do a test install myself
* pips1 has plugged in his digicam for the first time, and is completely impressed by the automatic import photos dialog ...
<cbx33> yup it's pretty cool
<pips1> ogra: ppc is currently totally oversized... right?
<cbx33> ogra: vuntz seemed happy with my update to pessulus, conceptually
<pips1> -rw-rw-r-- 1 philipp philipp 783163392 2006-09-28 01:57 edgy-live-powerpc.iso
<RichEd> hello ... adsl reset :(
<RichEd> where did I drop out ?
<HedgeMage> welcome back :)
<pips1> RichEd: you didn't miss anything here
<RichEd> HedgeMage: I'll repeat my speech to you in msg window :)
<cbx33> HedgeMage: the cover is kinda in the vein of the new gnome splash screen
<cbx33> I'll get a copy to you tonight
<HedgeMage> RichEd: hehe cool
<HedgeMage> cbx33: you two rock
<ogra> pips1, yes, see my comments on -devel
<ogra> (only live though)
<pips1> ah
* pips1 notices the new Administration menu item 'Lockdown Editor' and suspects that iCafes will like this..
* pips1 notices the new menu item 'GNOME Partition Editor'
* pips1 marvels at what 'Keyboard indicator plugins' could possibly do
<LaserJock> heh
* pips1 is astonished to see the Applications > System Tools category revived
<pips1> ... with 'Disk Usage Analyser', 'Floppy Formatter' and 'System Log'
<pips1> huh?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what you installed exactly
<pips1> it's default edubuntu live cd (i386)
<pips1> edgy, daily build 28-sep
<LaserJock> you installed from the livecd or you are in the livecd?
<pips1> not installed, just live
<pips1> and the menu's are the same, on the amd64 live cd, too, so I think this is what we will get with edgy...
<LaserJock> ok, yeah the livecd has more stuff liek gparted
<pips1> ah, ic
<pips1> LaserJock: you said you weren't comfortable with the default wallpaper, to show to your science colleagues?
<cbx33> HedgeMage: I'm going to try to write some docs for Student Control Panel for you for the handbook soon
<HedgeMage> cbx33: That would be *AWESOME*
<LaserJock> pips1: well, the current edgy one isn't bad
<LaserJock> although I then think it might not be as "fun" for kids
<pips1> ogra: ok, got to do some day job stuff now, let me know how your amd64 turns out :)
<pips1> *amd64 test
<pips1> young kids or teenagers?
<LaserJock> young kids
<pips1> but they have the homies :)
<RichEd> LaserJock ->
<LaserJock> pips1: by default?
<cbx33> no
<LaserJock> that's my poing
<LaserJock> pint
<LaserJock> point
<LaserJock> there
<cbx33> you made a lot of p's there
<pips1> right
<ogra> pips1, i doubt we'll have an opportunity to fix anything ... and i just got my isos ...
<ogra> so beta might be i386 only for us :(
<pips1> :/
<pips1> that's bad news...
<pips1> amd64 needs wide testing too...
<ogra> let me see ...
<cbx33> what's up with it?
<ogra> i have never seen such an error ...
<cbx33> i can probably test it in a while on my work machine.....if i can find a spare HDD
<ogra> and i need to finish the running ppc test first so i can be on IRC with it if smething goes weird
<pips1> are they discussing the beta release time in -devel, or smth?
<pips1> ogra: see the discussion in -devel !
<Laser_away> good night people
<cbx33> nn Laser_away 
<cbx33> can believe I believed you
<cbx33> can't
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> cu Laser_away
<TeePOG> ping RichEd
<RichEd> hey TeePOG ... I'm here now ... hit me in the message window
<pips1> btw, ogra, I just atttended a national 'Education and ICT' decision makers conference... lots of valuable inputs on the current thinking about ICT in Education...
<ogra> nice
<pips1> ah, shoot, I wanted to attend the http://www.learning-communities.at/ conference, but I'm booked for another conference on 9./10.Nov already :-/
<pygi> morning
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<pygi> hey HedgeMage, how are you?
<TeePOG> morning pygi
<pygi> hey TeePOG :)
<TeePOG> how goes it with pygi?>
<pygi> TeePOG: hm, bad? :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: about to get to bed
<pygi> HedgeMage: oh, oki, good night then, sleep well
<TeePOG> what's wrong pygi?
<pygi> TeePOG: nothing serious, don't worry
<TeePOG> shout if I can help pygi
* RichEd is back in 15 mins
<pygi> TeePOG: not really, but thanks :)
<TeePOG> np
<pygi> hey Yagisan, ogra 
<TeePOG> hi there ogra
<HedgeMage> Must... sleep...
* HedgeMage exits and collapses into bed
<HedgeMage> later, guys :)
<pygi> laters HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> night night
<Yagisan> G'day pygi 
<pygi> hey again Yagisan :)
* Yagisan is in a good mood today
<pygi> nice, I'm not :)
<Yagisan> paid work, and the customers are so happy with my work - they are telling their friends :D
<Yagisan> er what's up pygi ?
<pygi> Yagisan: hehe, nice :)
<pygi> Yagisan: I'm useless:)
<pygi> nothing else :)
<Yagisan> pygi, really ?
* pygi nods :P
<Yagisan> hmm. It sucks that I can't do a BIOS upgrade from within Ubuntu
* TeePOG uses pygi for a doorstop to stop the draft in the channel
<TeePOG> now pygi has a use ^.^
<pygi> TeePOG: !!!
<Yagisan> I need to get my hands on a spare disk and FreeDOS
<TeePOG> Yagisan: how about running freedos in qemu?
<Yagisan> evil evil broken acpi.
<TeePOG> i ask in ignorance
<Yagisan> TeePOG, nope - I need to flash the BIOS
<TeePOG> ahh Yagisan, i didn't read properly
<Yagisan> TeePOG, the ACPI is so broken that the motherboard resources and network card conflict - and the driver bombs out
<TeePOG> anyway, i prefer Hirens boot disk mostly, but never used it wiff a broken ACPI
<Yagisan> er - I don't have a single floppy disk in the house (I do however have a 3.5" and 5.25" drive that have not been used in years)
<TeePOG> i know Nero has an option to take a floppy img and burn a bootable CD from it
<TeePOG> no clue how in linux though
<pygi> TeePOG: libburn & libisofs!!!
<pygi> not yet tho :)
<cbx33> RichEd: pygi  sorry got d/c'd after slashing my wrist
<cbx33> seriously
<cbx33> could you resend pms?
<RichEd> are you okay ?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> i was putting filing cabinet drawers in to a cabinet
<cbx33> they were being buggers
<cbx33> didn't realise the rungs on the side had sliced my wrists
<pygi> :-/
<cbx33> fingers can still move
<TeePOG> damn @_@
<cbx33> so I guess nothing serious was cut
<TeePOG> did you sever any tendons?
<cbx33> doesn't seem like it
<pygi> cbx33: resent
<cbx33> argh i wasn't identified hold on RichEd and pygi 
<Yagisan> O_o
<cbx33> out first aid lady was like...I can use an antiseptic wipe...but it will sting
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> I said go on then.....
<cbx33> didn't sting
<cbx33> mild tickling....:p
<pygi> heh :p
<cbx33> am I still here?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> youre hallucinating
<cbx33> phew
<cbx33> I thought my connection had dropped
<cbx33> can someone dig me an ip for mail.google.com
<cbx33> seems our DNS servers are down
<RichEd> cbx33: 72.14.205.83
<gnomefreak> 64.233.185.19
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<pygi> hey ho bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi pygi :-)
<RichEd> pygi: we're sposed to be chatting ! 
<pygi> RichEd: 1 hour ago!
<RichEd> got my times mixed up .. do you have time now ?
<pygi> RichEd: not really (packaging stuff) but lets do it
<ogra> pips1: even though i have fixed the amd64 buig, the amd64 CD is still broken ... apparetnly the kernel package was renamed on amd64 but there is no transitional (empty) package with teh old name on the cd, but your install tests were very very helpful, thanks a lot
<pygi> ogra: we can't get another rebuild I guess?
<ogra> no, i dont think that fits in teh timeframe
<ogra> but hey, its only amd64 ...
<pygi> indeed, ...
<ogra> and tomorrows daily will be fine
<ogra> i know whats broken (actually i fixed it on the install thats running here, so it installs fine now)
<pygi> nice
<pips1> ogra: ok
<bidouille> hello
<bidouille> quelqu'un parle t il franais ?
<bidouille> no french language people ?
<bidouille> ok
<pygi> Comment pouvons-nous vous aider ?
<bidouille> merci pygi mon anglais is so bad
<pygi> Mon Franais est mauvais :P
<bidouille> je cherche  connaitre la config mini pour un edubuntu client alone
<pygi> Quel genre de config ? Edubuntu devrait faire l'installation de base pour vous
<bidouille> config matriel minimum
<pygi> bidouille: conditions minimales de matriel?
<pygi> oh
<pygi> :P
<bidouille> j'ai un vieux pc fujitsu sunlight avec  MO ram est ce suffisant ?
<bidouille> yes conditions minimales de matriel
<bidouille> 32 Mo
<pygi> bddebian: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/HardwareRequirements
<bidouille> thanks
<pygi> bidouille: excusez-moi pour ma mauvaise langue :P
<bidouille> c'e'st bon quand mme merci encore
<bidouille> bye
<pygi> bye
<pygi> o joy :P
<bddebian> pygi: Looks good :-)
<pygi> bddebian: not really :
<pygi> :P
<pygi> bddebian: my French is very bad, and based on things I learned from listening other people talk :P
<bddebian> pygi: Oh, well I was reading it in English :)
<pygi> bddebian: oh :P
<jingl3> ogra: Hi - yesterday you suggested I look for a line containing usplash in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ldm
<ogra> jingl3: yep
<jingl3> but no lines in ldm contain "usplash". I'm running Dapper. Did I understand you correctly?
<ogra> and change stop to start there
<ogra> yes, but i was wrong ... sorry, i was very tired last night ...
<ogra> wrong file :)
<ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d/ltsp-client is teh right one
<ogra> it starts ldm ...
<jingl3> Ok, thanks. The system is online now so I can get back to you. Hope you've gotten some sleep!
<ogra> some (4) hours, yes
<ogra> but now that the beta release is out, can relax a bit 
<ogra> s/out/done/ (its not officially released yet)
<lguerra> RichEd: Pign
<pygi> hopefully infinity can kick libburn now that it's fixed
<lguerra> *ping
<RichEd> lguerra: pong
<jingl3> ogra: That little critter booted up fine now! Many thanks. I'm looking forward to giving the beta a test drive.
<ogra> you will be surprised ;) edgy is far beyond dapper feature wise :)
<pygi> ogra: and edgy+1 should be far beyond edgy feature wise :)
<ogra> in edgy+1 we will have ltsp5 ;)
<ogra> which will be based on our code from edgy
<pygi> ogra: and burning over ltsp if all goes well ;)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> and mic support 
<ogra> and volume control :)
<pygi> right =)
<pygi> basicly, we'll rock even more then we do now
<ogra> and the base for local app support
<pygi> in case I don't get to visit UDS, we'll have to spec burning support over irc or something
<jingl3> Great stuff! Many thanks for all your hard work. Nice being with you, I'm off now.
<pygi> jingl3: bye :)
<pygi> hey a lot of people :P
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<cbx33> hey Yagisan 
<Yagisan> evening all
<cbx33> Yagisan: my new PC is much happier now :)
<Yagisan> oh ? It retired ?
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> I have a new machine now, as a birthday present
<ogra> yo sbalneav
<Yagisan> cbx33, what specs ?
<Yagisan> cbx33, and does it run doom :P
<sbalneav> ogra, guess what I'm booted on?
<ogra> yay
<pygi> hey sbalneav 
<ogra> did everything work out of the box as expected ? 
<sbalneav> The only thing I had to do was add myself to the fuse group
<ogra> right
<sbalneav> Other than that, sound + localdevs == perfect.
<ogra> if you add a normal desktop user with the gui tool, he will be in the fuse group
<ogra> its just the admin accoiunt thats not added there
<cbx33> sorry forgot to disable apt
<cbx33> and it started syncing 
<cbx33> Yagisan: yes I have a 4200 X2 now :D
<Yagisan> cbx33, video ?
<cbx33> 7300GT OC
<cbx33> it's niiice !
<sbalneav> Yep, everything seems to be working nicely ootb
<sbalneav> (out of the box)
<Yagisan> cbx33, could I get a copy of the output from glxinfo -l from that card
<ogra> sbalneav: sexy :)
<sbalneav> ogra: Want me to ask jammcq if you can call it an ltsp5 prerelease?
<ogra> that would be cool 
<ogra> i wouldnt dare to do so :)
<sbalneav> k, gimme a sec
<sbalneav> ltsp5 for the win
<ogra> yay :)
<willvdl> ogra, have you ever heard of/looked at openlab?
* RichEd is out for domestics & dinner
<pygi> bon appetit RichEd 
<RichEd> merci
<willvdl> ping og,
<willvdl> ogra rather :)
<ogra> pong
<willvdl> have you ever looked at openlab?
<ogra> "Modular imaging software for cell biologists " ?
<ogra> or CERN openlab for datagrid operations ? 
<willvdl> getopenlab :)
<ogra> oh ,and there seems to be an openlab for magicians as well :)
<willvdl> dude :)
<ogra> heh
<willvdl> openlab is a slackware based educ company
<ogra> ah
<ogra> poor them ... why did they choose slackware ? 
<willvdl> major claim to fame is only really successfull opensource schools implementation on a large scale in africa
<willvdl> I asked that too
<ogra> thats painful
<ogra> for them as well as for the users
<willvdl> anyhoo, they are considering an ubuntu base
<ogra> yay
<willvdl> they've also got some good developers apparently
<willvdl> they've had localdev support for over a year
<ogra> give them the edgy edubuntu beta to have a look 
<ogra> they need two NICs on the server 
<willvdl> and scp style customisation from ground up
<ogra> and we're surely lacking developers, so everybody is welcome to join in
<willvdl> if they come to the light there could be some serious perks for edubuntu
<willvdl> in terms of experienced in-school (3rd world) players
<ogra> sounds really great !
<willvdl> I've got their dvd's. Will filter some useful links for if you have time
<ogra> make them come in here :)
<willvdl> working on it ...
<ogra> nice :)
<sbalneav> I am officially declaring Edubuntu edgy eft edition ready for end user work.
<ogra> :D
* pygi congrats to everyone :)
<sbalneav> I won the first game of freecell on it I played, with no do-overs
<ogra> haha
<sbalneav> If FREECELL works, everything else MUST be ok.
<pygi> sbalneav: haha :)
<sbalneav> It's my little superstition
<sbalneav> Say, where's the menu editor?
<pygi> alacarte?
<sbalneav> yeah
<Amaranth> System->Preferences->Menu Layout
<ogra> right click the menu
<Amaranth> damn usability-list@l.g.o :P
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> Not to be insensitive, but I keep going for a terminal, and keep trying to turn on the accessibility options. :)
<LaserJock> wahoo
<LaserJock> lots of archive processing
<pips1> ?
<LaserJock> sorry
<LaserJock> we've been waiting for the archive team to process new packages and sync
<LaserJock> Universe Freeze is today
<sbalneav> ogra: one of the things we'll need to spec out for similar functionality is an auto-login feature for ldm.  Should be easy to do with keys, but you'd be absolutely shocked at the number of people wanting kiosk type things, where you just turn on the box and autologin as someone.  We'll just need to turn the crank on the code.
<pips1> sbalneav: interesting. I imagined that kiosk mode is really something that lots of people want..
<sbalneav> Yep, it's probably the second biggest request after localdevs.
<pips1> ic
<pips1> it's useful in lots of places... not only iCafes, but also in the school library, etc
<pygi> sbalneav: ergh, no, it's not, libburn is :)
* pygi is just  joking around, sorry
<sbalneav> heh, well, libburn's important too :)
<pygi> Imagine thin client kiosks which can burn Edubuntu cd's for you :)
<LaserJock> freedom toaster
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what about local apps?
<sbalneav> Local apps is big, but numbers wise, not as many, because fewer people have "really powerful" thin clients to run a local app on.
<sbalneav> For every place that has 15 Pentium 4's with 512 megs that they want to run firefox locally on, there's 3 libraries in Brazil looking for autologon.
<sbalneav> Local apps NEEDS to get specced out for this release, but autologon's easy, it's just a case of setting up some appropriate keys.
<sbalneav> and having some way to map a key/loginid pair to a specific mac address/ip address.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what exactly would local apps take?
<sbalneav> That's pretty much just an exercise in shell scripting :)
<LaserJock> you put the packages in the client chroot
<sbalneav> Local apps is harder.
<LaserJock> and then you have to get X from the client to the server?
<sbalneav> First, if I'm going to run Firefox locally, I need my home dir mounted on the thin client.
<LaserJock> ah
<sbalneav> Plus, my thin client needs to know who "*I*" am, which means some kind of network authentication, i.e. ldap.
<sbalneav> THEN, you need to have some kind of plumbing thing going on, where when I click on the firefox app on my desktop, it REMOTELY starts firefox on the terminal.
<LaserJock> I'd be happy if you could just load up an app in a temp space on the client
<LaserJock> without ~/
<sbalneav> None of it's impossible, but it's a lot of messy plumbing that needs to get put in place.  The hard part's making it easy.
<LaserJock> and have some way of maybe getting files scp'ed back
<sbalneav> Yeah, but name me an app that doesn't need to save data somewhere.
<LaserJock> I'm talking 1 shot apps
<LaserJock> all of the apps I want are pretty much like that
<LaserJock> you're teaching a lab
<sbalneav> Well, we basically know how to do it, the only blocker at this point is the ldap.
<sbalneav> So, one of the specs we'll need to work on is the ldap authentication.
<LaserJock> yeah, I know that needs to be done anyway
<LaserJock> I just want my local apps, darn it! ;-)
<sbalneav> edgy+1
<sbalneav> At least INSTALLING the local app is now easy.
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 ; apt-get install whateverappyouwant
<LaserJock> now don't you need an ssh server on the client in addition to the app?
<LaserJock> so that you can X forward back to the server?
<sbalneav> No, you simply display the output locally on the client.
<sbalneav> Remember: that's where the X server REALLY is :)
<LaserJock> oh hmm
<sbalneav> BUT you may need ssh or something to START the app.
<LaserJock> I don't know how you guys keep track of this stuff ;-)
<sbalneav> Unless I get up off my *ss and try to write the dbus-over-x-atoms thing.
<crimsun> that sounds evil
<sbalneav> nah,
<sbalneav> It's actually quite elegant, because if you're tunnelling X over ssh, then your dbus messages will be encrypted as well.
<sbalneav> I can program X atoms, what I NEED is a good introduction to dbus!
<LaserJock> hmm, ok. In reality I could install an app into my client chroot, fire up the client, ssh into the client and start up the app, right?
<sbalneav> yep
<sbalneav> but then the apps running as root.
<LaserJock> oh wait, but that's where I would need to also install the ssh server on to the client
<LaserJock> hmm, root within the client?
<LaserJock> not on the server though
<sbalneav> Yeah, thats what the X server runs as on the client: remember, the client doesn't know ANYTHING about who you're logged in as: that's all just X packets.
<LaserJock> right, and I don't really care who is logged into use the particular apps I'm talking about
<LaserJock> they don't login or save data right now anyway
<sbalneav> You could basically do something half-assed now, with a little fiddling.
<LaserJock> interesting thought anyway
<sbalneav> Anyway, LUNCH TIME, be back in an hour.
<ogra> sbalneav, i'm totally not shocked and its n my todo list snce dapper to have an autologin ;)
<LaserJock> ogra: so did Edubuntu get a beta?
<ogra> LaserJock, powerpc and i386 install beta and amd64 i386 live beta
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well I'm covered then
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ogra> amd64 will be fixed with the next build (there is a bug with the kernel package), and poerpc was obviously broken due to an LP bug that made it grow by 70M
<LaserJock> what happened there?
<LaserJock> seed problem?
<ogra> well, nobody thought about including the transitional package for linux image after it was renamed from amd64-generic to amd64
<ogra> err, to -generic, sorry
<ogra> which breaks ltsp ....
<ogra> i'll depend on -generic with the next upoad ... bt the missing transitional package will bite upgrading users 
<LaserJock> hmm
<cbx33> evenin
<sbalneav> ogra: so, what's with the bug picture of Germany?  Something on the lens of the satellite?  I wouldn't think that possible!
<ogra> these pics arent taken by sattelite :)
<ogra> they take them by plane ...
<ogra> (i once worked for a mapping company, the quality of sattelite pics you can release for non military stuff isnt that great)
<sbalneav> Ah, ok, makes sense then.
* sbalneav tries to calculate, based on the scale, how big the bug would be at ground level.
<cbx33> what is this?
<cbx33> you guys got me interested now
<sbalneav> I'm guessing at least 35m
<sbalneav> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&t=k&q=Germany&ie=UTF8&z=18&ll=48.857699,10.205451&spn=0.002404,0.006738&om=1
<ogra> heh
<sbalneav> Prolly closer to 40
<sbalneav> LOOK OUT!  IT'LL CHEW YER HEAD CLEAN OFF!  RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!
<pygi> !!!
<cbx33> heheheh
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<pygi> hey HedgeMage ;
<HedgeMage> hi pygi :)
<cbx33> pygi, HedgeMage w00t
<HedgeMage> hehe 
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<rodarvus> ogra, what kind of software do they use to do the composition of the images?
<ogra> rodarvus, erdas and arcview for glueing together the tiles ...
<rodarvus> sbalneav, you can note the (huge) difference of the satellite images to airplane images - just zoom out a little and after the fifth or sixth zoom out the image quality drops immensely
<LaserJock> cbx33: pong
<ogra> rodarvus, the company i worked for made 3D surface models for telcos ... they took the pics from two angles and had a software that computed a 3D model from it ... one copy of this SW costed 500000 and you could only buy it from the pentagon directly
<cbx33> LaserJock, hiowz it going
<ogra> most funny was that the license was bound to the MAC address of the NIC and it costed 10000 to change the license ... so every time a NIC went south it was a very expensive NIC ;)
<rodarvus> haha
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/handbook.jpg
<rodarvus> well, you can forge the mac address of a nic, but I wouldn't know if this software has protections against mac address forging
<ogra> it only ran under NT4 and had a dongle that checked the HW
<cbx33> NT4
<cbx33> didn;t you spew
<ogra> well, in the evenings we had great UT matches on this machines ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ogra, did you ever play counterstrike source?
<ogra> anyway, dinner time ...
<ogra> cbx33, nope
<cbx33> one day I'll have to givey ou a game ;)
<cbx33> HedgeMage, pygi seen the link?
* HedgeMage looks
* pygi did
<HedgeMage> Ooohhh, I like.
* pygi won't comment ;)
<HedgeMage> You two always remind me how graphically impaired I am :P
<HedgeMage> ;)
<cbx33> pygi, you don;t like it?
<pygi> cbx33: haven't said that ;)
<cbx33> won;t comment - sound like biting ones tongue
<HedgeMage> I thought he was not commenting on my grapical-impairedness.
<cbx33> I got pygi's message first
<pygi> cbx33: it's nice, don't worry :)
<HedgeMage> I got them in the other order.
<cbx33> HedgeMage, :p
<HedgeMage> It's way better than what I came up with!
<LaserJock> I have a comment
<LaserJock> :-)
<HedgeMage> That's not a comment, that's a facial expression :P
* HedgeMage tickles LaserJock 
<LaserJock> I think you should use one of the other fonts for the main "Handbook"
<LaserJock> it's a little to childish for me
* pygi uses tickle-repeling spray on HedgeMage 
<LaserJock> I'd like it on the side better
<LaserJock> and perhaps even have more "young" looking fonts too on teh side
<cbx33> like comic sans
<cbx33> (becare ful how you reply)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I want all the MS fonts
<LaserJock> but I really like it
* cbx33 shoots LaserJock 
<LaserJock> I just think that you should swap out the main "Handbook" with one of the other ones
<LaserJock> but since I also have no graphic ability whatsoever
<cbx33> notes passed to lisa
<LaserJock> I'll just leave it as a comment ;-)
* HedgeMage is repelled
<cbx33> HedgeMage, what do yo uthink?
<cbx33> pygi, ?
<pygi> cbx33: nice for me
<HedgeMage> cbx33: LaserJock's suggestions sound good.
<cbx33> ok
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I'll know if I like it after I see it, I'm not best at picturing things beforehand
<cbx33> lisa said cool she'll try that
<HedgeMage> Of course, that's why I make things work, not pretty ;)
<LaserJock> cbx33: what size is that, btw?
<cbx33> 800
<cbx33> x something
<LaserJock> the size of the cover might affect it somewhat
<LaserJock> but that can get hashed out later I suppose
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> we can shift things around
<sbalneav> HedgeMage!!!
<sbalneav> Seen all the work I've been doing? :)
<cbx33> sbalneav, you rock dude
<sbalneav> If you've seen any pictures of me, you'd see my shape is more conducive to rolling :)
<cbx33> sbalneav, come on then where' s a pic
<sbalneav> hmm
<sbalneav> Gimme a few minutes, I'll see if I can post something.
<sbalneav> heh, look at my hackergotchi on launchpad
<sbalneav> That'll give you a rough idear.
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: Haven't yet, but I'm just catching up a bit
<LaserJock> ogra's got some
<LaserJock> from Paris
<LaserJock> I was looking at today
<HedgeMage> Oooh! LTSP goodness!
* HedgeMage hugs sbalneav 
<HedgeMage> Thank you!
<sbalneav> Lots more work to do.  Not finished by ANY strech of the imagination.
<cbx33> sbalneav, you still rock ;)
<sbalneav> I'm putting in about 2hrs/day on it for the next 2 weeks.
<sbalneav> Added a couple of sections, cleaned up some stuff, etc etc etc etc.
<LaserJock> I guess we'll just have to rename it
<LaserJock> Edubuntu Handbook -> The Definitive Guide to LTSP ;-)
<sbalneav> Jim McQuillan, my buddy from LTSP said we were welcome to use as much of his doco as was applicable, I just need to figure out the best way to attribute him for his contribs, probably in the intro.
* HedgeMage tickles LaserJock again
<LaserJock> darn
<LaserJock> I keep getting tickled :/
* cbx33 slaps LaserJock's bonce
<LaserJock> shesh, I get no respect
<HedgeMage> Funny, men don't usually complain when randomly assaulted by fun, geeky women :P
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> too tired and too married ;-)
<HedgeMage> LOL
<cbx33> HedgeMage, are you calling me a woman
<LaserJock> hahaha
<HedgeMage> rofl
<cbx33> and a fun geeky one at that
<HedgeMage> nah, I typed it before you assaulted him, after I did
* HedgeMage cuddles cbx33 
<cbx33> HedgeMage, are you getting lag?
<cbx33> hehehe
<LaserJock> oh man
<cbx33> awww thankyou HedgeMage 
<LaserJock> somebody throw some water on HedgeMage, she's getting all touchy ;-)
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> roflmao
<LaserJock> there goes the proffesional image of Edubuntu ;-)
<LaserJock> it's all cuddly and tickly
<sbalneav> Oooh, are we getting all cuddly and tickly?  You'll all remember I come from Canada where we LEGALIZED that sort of thing :)
<LaserJock> WAHOOO
* sbalneav winks at LaserJock
<LaserJock> edubuntu-menus hit archive.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> |o?
<LaserJock> \o/ even
<LaserJock> sbalneav: nooooooo
* HedgeMage grins at sbalneav 
<LaserJock> now I can upload new menus
<sbalneav> Cool!  Congrats LaserJock!
<sbalneav> Your first spec!  Fully implemented and uploaded!
<LaserJock> it's bad when you are waiting for your package too get out of NEW so you can upload new versions
<LaserJock> sbalneav: and I even rewrote the spec to refelect reality
<LaserJock> wahoo
* LaserJock does a happy dance around the lab
<HedgeMage> :D
<sbalneav> LaserJock: That's a classic sciences trick isn't it?  Plot the graph, then throw out the data points that don't fit? :)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> what we mostly do is this:
<sbalneav> At least, that's how I got through first year chemistry :)
<LaserJock> take data for a few years
<LaserJock> then find the best data run you got
<LaserJock> then publish that as "typical data"
<LaserJock> ;-)
<sbalneav> Perfect!
<sbalneav> Lies, damned lies, and statistics :)
<LaserJock> but seriously, I'm gonna need some testers
<sbalneav> I could test tonight, if you'd like.
<LaserJock> as I haven't tried this in any real world setting
<LaserJock> I just through up so rough menus
<LaserJock> I think the basic menu is actually too long
<LaserJock> anyway, we've got the edubuntu-* group namespace
<LaserJock> so we can have any groups we want
<sbalneav> Any methodology you'd like me to follow, or testing-to-destruction?
<LaserJock> mostly just trying different combinations and permutations ;-)
<LaserJock> on my machine I set up 3 test users
<LaserJock> and had 1 that only had edubuntu-basic
<LaserJock> 1 that had 2-3 groups
<LaserJock> and the last one had 2-3 groups with at least one in common with the other ones
<LaserJock> so I think the actual mechanism is probably ok
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure how realistic my menus are
<LaserJock> and as there is no editing yet, I'd like to have pretty good defaults ;-)
<sbalneav> brb, workping
<pygi> sbalneav is back, quick, everyone hide :)
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> Wierd
* pygi runs and hides
<sbalneav> Walked away from my terminal for 1/2 hour, came back, and was sitting at the login prompt.
<LaserJock> naughty terminal
<mhz> moin all
<LaserJock> hi mhz 
<cbx33> moin mhz 
<mhz> LaserJock: cbx33 hey you 2
* pygi asks for opinions: http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6354/uishotnp7.png
<cbx33> pygi, what am I looking at?
<cbx33> :p
<pygi> cbx33: telepathy client UI
<pygi> cbx33: so opinion? :)
<mhz> Good news!
<cbx33> i like it
<mhz> Fluxbuntu team starts working on Fluxbuntu Education Edition tonite
<cbx33> what's telepathy?
<pygi> cbx33: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/
<pygi> mhz: that's nice
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> current build is 'only' 309 MB
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> once edu apps get added, ... eeek, no idea
<pygi> mhz: will that be in official archive for edgy+1?
<mhz> don't know yet
<mhz> i hope it gets some support from canonical, thou
<pygi> what kind of support do you expect?
<mhz> hopefully, 
<mhz> ship it help for LoCo's in LAm countries
<mhz> not 100% but a %
<mhz> server too
<pygi> well, we won't have shipit for edgy except payed for LUGS
<pygi> so...
<pygi> dunno about later...
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> shipit is quite expensive
<pygi> indeed
<mhz> true
#edubuntu 2006-09-29
<rwhitehair> what's up
<rwhitehair> anyone know how to change screen resolution in edubuntu... I tried System>Preferences>Screen Resolution but it wouldn't let me choose a size... so now I'm using 600X800
<pygi> rwhitehair: thin client or regular workstation?
<pygi> and I assume 800X600
<rwhitehair> regular workstation
<rwhitehair> yeah, 800X600
<rwhitehair> no actually it's 640X480
<pygi> might be problem with your xorg.conf
<rwhitehair> when I first installed it, it was working fine, but now it's not
<pygi> you need to edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<pygi> make sure HorizSync i VertRefresh are correctly set up
<pygi> under "Display" you'll have number of resolutions listed like:
<pygi> Modes - "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" 
<pygi> change the order so the first one will start by default
<rwhitehair> ahh..
<pygi> what? :)
<rwhitehair> Warning: unknown mime-type for "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" -- using "application/*"Error: no "edit" mailcap rules found for type "application/*"
<rwhitehair> that's what I get
<pygi> ah :P
<pygi> sudo vim /etc/X11/xorg.conf ? :(
<pygi> :)*
<rwhitehair> okay I'm viewing xorg.conf
<pygi> oki, told you what you must do :)
<rwhitehair> sorry to be a pain but I can't see modes
<pygi> rwhitehair: care to paste your xorg.conf files pls?
<pygi> not here tho :P
<pygi> pastebin pls
<rwhitehair> actually I found it... I had to type gedit after sudo
<rwhitehair> now I found modes
<pygi> ok, you think you can manage?
<rwhitehair> nope, cause 1600X1200 is the default... not understanding
<pygi> uh, vertical and horizontal sync/refresh fine for your monitor?
<rwhitehair> where would I find that?
<pygi> HorizSync and VertRefresh
<pygi> and in your monitor manual :)
<rwhitehair> ???
<pygi> uh
<rwhitehair> how do I save it after I edit it
<pygi> rwhitehair: you click "Save" in gedit :)
<rwhitehair> can't use sudo now
<pygi> what? /me is confused :P
<rwhitehair> well, I tried gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf first and tried to save and it said no permission
<pygi> ofcourse :)
<pygi> you must "gksudo gedit bla/bla" if you wanna use gedit
<rwhitehair> not working
<pygi> hm, why not?
<rwhitehair> (gedit:6622): GnomeUI-WARNING **: While connecting to session manager:
<rwhitehair> Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed.
<pygi> rwhitehair: thats not a problem
<rwhitehair> ok
<rwhitehair> how do I send you my xorg.conf?
* pygi should go to sleep :(
<pygi> rwhitehair: you pastebin it
<rwhitehair> dude, I'm a total noob
<pygi> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/
<pygi> paste it there, then you gimme the url
<rwhitehair> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25117/
<pygi> thanks
<rwhitehair> no, thank you
<rwhitehair> hey pygi, I have to go right now, can you email me @ gmail
<pygi> rwhitehair: ergh, not really :)
<pygi> please try replacing your xorg.conf with: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25119/plain/
<pygi> and restart your X server
<pygi> probably wont help, but worth a shot :)
<pygi> bye rwhitehair and good luck :)
<rwhitehair> well, I should be on later 
<rwhitehair> thanks for the help 
<sbalneav> Evening all
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hello
<LaserJock> you're up early
<LaserJock> I've been having fun
<cbx33> good good
<cbx33> is it ok?
<cbx33> you're happy?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> laserjock.us/blog
<cbx33> bloody el man
<nixternal> oh no
<cbx33> drupal already eh?
<nixternal> LaserJock has a blog now, that is scarey
<nixternal> tell pete to hook me up as well :)
<nixternal> im to cheap to purchase a domain
<cbx33> hehehe
<nixternal> i will continue leaching off of others with my hippy wasy
<cbx33> ah LaserJock purchased his domain
<nixternal> for instance, http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/blog
<cbx33> I just rent him the server space
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> i didn't even see you at first cbx33
<nixternal> im talking about you, and you are right there in front of me ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<nixternal> gg
<nixternal> i need to shut these auto-reminder lines off in konversation..they make me miss a bunch of stuff
<LaserJock> auto-reminder?
<nixternal> remember
<nixternal> sorry
<nixternal> they let you know where you left off, but they are the same color as the j/q/p messages, so i don't see text sometimes
<nixternal> plus i just glance a majority of the time
<LaserJock> ah
<RichEd> greetz edu-ubuntero's
<HedgeMage> hiya RichEd 
<RichEd> hey HedgeMage :)
<HedgeMage> my mom said to tell you that "UbuntuEd doesn't sound weird at all if you've heard of Ubuntu, so just make sure to mention it first." :)
<HedgeMage> hehe
<RichEd> thanks :)
<RichEd> I also found drupaled.org as their sub-brand ... so there is precedent in FOSS
<HedgeMage> :)
* RichEd getting a much needed coffee ... back in a boil
<HedgeMage> I now feel totally dumb... I'm a drupal person and I never knew about that site.
<HedgeMage> That's just sad.
* RichEd hands HedgeMage a hanky 
<HedgeMage> thanks, babe ;)
<RichEd> HedgeMage: do you have a favourite drupal look & feel site ?
<HedgeMage> So how are you doing today?
<LaserJock> hi RichEd 
<HedgeMage> hmmm...
* HedgeMage thinks
<RichEd> well thanks .... going camping with the kids and JaneW to an outdoor music festival this weekend ... 2 days & nights no electricity or pc's :)
<HedgeMage> nice :)
<HedgeMage> I'm sure you'll find some way to pass the time not spent in a concert ;)
<RichEd> "rocking the daises" :)
<HedgeMage> I used to have a list of cool-looking drupal sites somewhere... I can't find it
<HedgeMage> hrm
<HedgeMage> I should really put it on my web site or something so I don't lose it
<RichEd> Well if you think of any ... let me know ... prefreably ones that cover the the whole shooting match ... web site, forums, blogpsace
<nixternal> UbuntuEd?
<nixternal> name change possible/
* HedgeMage nods
<RichEd> nope !
<HedgeMage> It's probably on the office computer, in which case I'll dig it up in the morning.
<nixternal> whew
<RichEd> let me clarify nixternal before there is a riot ... dancing around a burning RichEd
<nixternal> i was gonna say, here in the doofy ol US, when you are in a <course>Ed, usually means you are lacking something ;)
<nixternal> lol
<HedgeMage> Nah, we'd never burn you... tie you to a stake and taunt you, yes, but never actually set you on fire :P
<RichEd> We need a space for Ubuntu in Education ...
<nixternal> totally agree on that...as I have tried here with my uni, and they are going with SuSE, only because of the Support.
<nixternal> whoa...i have a chance again though
<RichEd> We have Edubuntu = Ubuntu product for the Education Desktop (and serer and LTSP server) but that is a classroom tool
<nixternal> with Novell and their issues here..i may have to push Ubuntu again
<RichEd> (we will never mess with the name or brand or direction of Edubuntu !)
<nixternal> good deal..im so used to saying it ;)
<nixternal> Laser_awa: 
<nixternal> Laser_awa: hey
<RichEd> But for Education, there is a wider use of Ubuntu products ...
<nixternal> didn't fall for it this time
<RichEd> e.g. Ubuntu on the firewall / content filter at school.
<RichEd> e.g. Ubuntu on the Staff Admin PCs
<nixternal> like my college for one...they currently use Fedora 2..and plan on switching to SuSE by the spring. But Novell might drop support for SuSE, otherwise big brother Microsoft won't help them on a default
<RichEd> e.g. Ubuntu on the Education department Server Farm : Mail Server, Web Server, Content Repository
<RichEd> So we need a space, for people in Education, who use Ubuntu Products.
<nixternal> man...and the College of DuPage is screaming for that RichEd as well
<RichEd> Edubuntu is *one* of these products
<RichEd> A pretty damn fine product, but it is not all things to all education people.
<nixternal> i run Ubuntu Chicago LoCo, and I am on the board of the CoD LUG as well...so they actually listen to me somewhat...i might have to put something together again, and go at it differently this time around
<RichEd> So we are looking at the following pitch to an Education Institution:
<nixternal> they keep wanting to teach students admin, yet they want to outsource everything..i think having tech support in house for students to maintain would be ideal, all the while utilizing an Ubuntu network
<RichEd> Edubuntu in the classroom, Ubuntu for all other computing needs, one family, one community, one support base, one knowledge base and training base. Free on the desktop. Commercial support available for critical servers.
<RichEd> No other distro can offer that complete range.
<nixternal> excellent pitch w/o a doubt
<RichEd> So, to get back to the name controversy ;)
<nixternal> Edubuntu as it stands, to me my opinion, is it is K-5 maybe, leaving out the 6-12 range and higher
<RichEd> Ubuntu is planning solution spaces on the ubuntu.com web site, of which, one will be:
<RichEd> (hold that thought nixternal ! - back to it in a mo)] 
<nixternal> hehe
<RichEd> http://www.ubuntu.com/education which will ridrect to http://www.ubuntu.com/solutions/education
<RichEd> similarly (for example only) ...
<RichEd> http://www.ubuntu.com/icafe which will ridrect to http://www.ubuntu.com/solutions/icafe
<RichEd> with me so far ?
<Burgundavia> RichEd: do we really need the word "solutions" in the url?
<nixternal> yup
<RichEd> Burgundavia: that's the official space ... let me unravel the whole picture
<Burgundavia> we need a better term
<nixternal> i think that solutions should be in the url for site indexing
<Burgundavia> solutions if massively overused in IT
<Burgundavia> s/if/is/
<RichEd> Burgundavia: that's the ubuntu direction, out of our control, but enough precedent in the rest of the web world for it to make sense
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: it's a meaningless buzzword that makes management types happy, that is a use in itself :P
<Burgundavia> given we already have /server and /desktop, having /education and /internetcafe would follow the lead
<Burgundavia> HedgeMage: and customers hate it
<Burgundavia> RichEd: grumble
<RichEd> HedgeMage: :) well cdone for supporting the same thing
<Burgundavia> I asked Matthew to discuss major changes in the website
<nixternal> heh, true, what I have been seeing though is companies starting to utilize "Resolution" instead of solution, and the campaign im working on for my MBA is IT Resolutions - Fixing Current Corporate Solutions
<HedgeMage> hehe
<RichEd> So that will be a landing zone for people coming in to Ubuntu via www.ubuntu.com and then jumping into the "education solutions area" *but* this is the "official space" and is for primarily for suits & decision makers
<nixternal> Burgundavia is right though...if you think about it, there isn't a "solution" for education really..so to fix that, you would need to have a resolution...you can't have a true solution, as your solution might not be the correct one
<RichEd> What we are talking about (how this thread started) is our own space where we can have our own flavour and community ...
<Burgundavia> exactly
<nixternal> suiters are big time into IT Solutions and Mandates
<RichEd> Not on the www.ubuntu.com site ...
<nixternal> im into IRC and Ubuntu, I wish they would understand that already ;)
<HedgeMage> hehe
<RichEd> A drupal driven Ubuntu and Education community focused space
<Burgundavia> RichEd: what is immediately clear to me is that there has been no public discussion of the website and direction and that pisses me off
<Burgundavia> very seriously pisses me off
<RichEd> Burgundavia: Matt Nuzum has just joined recently, and he is consolidating Ubuntu web sites ... and I see that he is making a good start at a unified platform view. He is the first fully focused web master.
<Burgundavia> RichEd: and he has communicated nothing publicly
<Burgundavia> hence my anger
<RichEd> When he has the sprawl under control, there will be a base from which to take comment ...
<Burgundavia> no, that is not how it works
* RichEd can understand Burgundavia's point
<Burgundavia> it is the communities website as much as it is Canonicals and we need dicussion as to direction and community buyin from the ground up
<Burgundavia> currently Canonical is failing on that
<RichEd> Burgundavia: I will ping matt later and let him know "some of the feeling" ...
<Burgundavia> and I am not some random ranter. I have edit rights on the website and drove initial /desktop and /server page ideas
<Burgundavia> RichEd: I just emailed him
<RichEd> But I do not want to be drawn into that too much, let me rather say that this is perhaps say a reason why we want our own space for Education ...
<Burgundavia> why not use Edubuntu for all education stuff
<Burgundavia> ?
<Burgundavia> otherwise you end up with duplication
<RichEd> Nope ... we are not replicating product information, or documentation or anything like that ...
<Burgundavia> then what is going there?
<Burgundavia> beyond a link to edubuntu.org?
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: I think he's leaning more toward stuff like use cases, how to know where to use edubuntu vs. ubuntu, "this is what I did in my classroom and here's a lesson plan" etc
<Burgundavia> use cases shoudl be edubuntu.org and so should the lesson plan stuff
<Burgundavia> edubuntu vs ubuntu is a one paragraph, followed by a link to edubuntu.org
<RichEd> The new area is a front end, more education user friendly, which will host more teacher / scholar info and end user community driven forums etc. and have links back to the official info on edubuntu.org (where it is an edubuntu desktop isue) and ubuntu.com where it is ubuntu desktop / server stuff.
<Burgundavia> voila, our entire /education namespace can be one page
<Burgundavia> RichEd: if edubuntu.org is not meeting those needs, we need to fix edubuntu.org, not dump stuff on ubuntu.com
<RichEd> No we are not dumping stuff on ubuntu.com ... let me go get my initial comments that started this thread ! 
<Burgundavia> right
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: Wouldn't lesson plans and stuff just dilute edubuntu.org which is, I thought, supposed to be about the software?
<Burgundavia> if it relates to Education and Ubuntu, it should be edubuntu.org
<RichEd> We need a space for Ubuntu in Education ... We have Edubuntu = Ubuntu product for the Education Desktop (and server and LTSP server) but that is a classroom tool ... but for Education, there is a wider use of Ubuntu products ...
<Burgundavia> that is where you need rich cross linking
<Burgundavia> to me edubuntu is more than just the LTSP+GNOME we ship currently 
<Burgundavia> its scope is "Edubuntu in Ubuntu"
<Burgundavia> or rather, the other way around
<Burgundavia> driving people to two different websites is simply going to lead to confusion
<RichEd> If someone runs a school admin system (school financials, parent & children records, procurement, tuck-shop management) in the school admin department, they wil, not run an edubuntu desktop, but an ubuntu desktop with School Admin tools.
<Burgundavia> that still falls under the scope of Edubuntu
<Burgundavia> like I said, Edubuntu is more than just the currently technology it uses
<RichEd> Why Edubuntu ? please explain ... I need to understand your pov
<Burgundavia> Edubuntu is Ubuntu for Education
<Burgundavia> doesn't matter which piece of Ubuntu they are using
<RichEd> But isn't Edubuntu a specific product ?
<Burgundavia> no, it is a project, which currently uses LTSP
<RichEd> Not sure what you mean by that last starement, Not all Edubuntu installations use LTSP. Not all LTSP installations use Edubuntu.
<Burgundavia> exactly
<RichEd> ?? now I'm confused
<Burgundavia> lets move Edubutu beyond the range of a single piece of technology
<RichEd> expand ?
<Burgundavia> Edubuntu is currently two things: a distro that uses LTSP and a project that ships that distro
<Burgundavia> "The current version of Edubuntu is aimed at classroom use, and future versions of Edubuntu will expand to other educational usage, such as university use. "
<Burgundavia> ^ from the front page of edubuntu.org
<RichEd> Yes agreed. 100%. But that is all inside the Edubuntu product, in different "editions / flavours" for diffrerent clasrrom desktops.
<RichEd> If an Education Deparment has national server farm, running web servers, mail servers, content filtering, internet link, woudl they install Edubuntu or Ubuntu server ?
<Burgundavia> no, it clearly covers other pieces of technology, like schooltool
<Burgundavia> for that, they would be using "Edubuntu"
<Burgundavia> but of course, from a technology standpoint, there would be no difference
<Burgundavia> this is about marketing
<RichEd> Would they take an Edubuntu CD and install the server from that ? Would they want an Education desktop on the server with KHangman as an application ?
<Burgundavia> sure
<Burgundavia> any place that people want Linux in an educational environment, we want them to go to edubuntu.org for that
<Burgundavia> doesn't matter what specific piece of technology they are using
<Burgundavia> if they are using servers, then they will find an educational server community, ditto for desktops
<nixternal> OK, I am a TA for "Intro to Linux" at the Uni. We teach in one class "Linux Firewall", if I was to use Ubuntu as my teaching tool for that class, the information could be attainable via Edubuntu then?  Or would it be practical to be a page under ubuntu.com/whatever/education?
<Burgundavia> all that should be on edubuntu.org
<Burgundavia> now, it may just be a link to some ubuntu content, but it should be found initially on edubuntu.org
<RichEd> Please explain why some techie, who is 20 miles from a classroom, running a server farm, would chose an Edubuntu Server and Desktop ? I need to understand where you are coming from.
<RichEd> please
<Burgundavia> my goal is thus: If you are thinking about Ubuntu in Education, in any capacity, you should be able to come to edubuntu.org and get information
<nixternal> if that is the case, then edubuntu.org would have to restructure itself away from being a website about "Edubuntu the Linux OS"
<RichEd> In my opinion, for most people, Edubuntu is a product, that installs an education desktop. We have many universities who use Ubuntu and have support contracts to back it up. Their product in Ubuntu, and they are in education.
<highvoltage> nixternal: I think pips1 and RichEd is currently working on that
<highvoltage> (god morning, btw)
<highvoltage> *good :)
<nixternal> moin' ;)
<cbx33> RichEd: howz it going
<Burgundavia> nixternal: no, it does not
<Burgundavia> nixternal: Edubuntu is about Ubuntu (the linux distro) in Education
<RichEd> Let me explain that we are NOT talking about a space that is as the same level as edubuntu.org or ubuntu.com ... we are talking about a community space.
<Burgundavia> nixternal: if you replace linux with LTSP< then you are correct
<Burgundavia> if we are talking community building, it should very clearly be at edubuntu.org
<nixternal> well, if im an instructor at a uni, why would i want to view a page that is rather "elementary" and "childish", as that is what the "Brand" is targeted for?
<Burgundavia> nixternal: that is tangent to this dicussion and very much a cart before the horse argument
<nixternal> well LTSP wouldn't replace Linux anyways
<Burgundavia> if we decide to broaden up Edubuntu.org, then it will be redeveloped to follow
<nixternal> ok then..that was my point
<Burgundavia> RichEd: what I see is that you are getting very stuck on the current product of Edubuntu, rather than what it was scoped to be
<RichEd> There are two types of community, I feel the need to differentiate. There is the "core community" as I call it the hobbyist space, which is our level, who are passionate about Linux. Then there is the mainstream commnity, which is normal people, passionate about Education.
<nixternal> if Edubuntu is about Ubuntu in Education, then I think the scope of Education needs to be either 1, redifined, or 2 defined in general. As of right now, Edubuntu, Ubuntu in Education, is elementary education, and not high school to college based or targeted
<Burgundavia> exactly why everything should be at Edubuntu.org
<Burgundavia> nixternal: edubuntu (the product) not being targetted at higher than education is due to lack of developer resources, not lack of scope
<RichEd> We look after edubuntu.org and there is a quality of information about our product and linux, and a degree of control to make sure that this quality is maintained.
<Burgundavia> higher than elementary, rather
<Burgundavia> RichEd: that is a given
<nixternal> i understand that whole heartedly, and i think it sucks that it is like that as well
<Burgundavia> this is our chance to do something about it
<nixternal> damn, Burgundavia jsut started a rallying cry with this I think
<Burgundavia> edubuntu as LTSP is really truly boring and too narrow a scope
<nixternal> i almost jumped out of my chair and started to do something...you are 110% correct about this being our chance
<nixternal> and edubuntu isn't all about LTSP
<nixternal> and vice versa..if it is, then I need to rework my last job
<RichEd> Edubuntu and LTSP are not one and the same thing ... agreed.
<nixternal> edubuntu and ltsp is great for the communities that can't afford new systems...but that shouldn't be the only target...ltsp is great w/o a doubt, but i haven't had a reason to really use it just yet..and i know with the work we have done with FREE GEEK, we have been OK so far
<RichEd> Burgundavia: can you please confirm is you agree or disagree with this: "Edubuntu is an Ubuntu variant that provides an education or classroom desktop and tools."
<RichEd> *fs you
<RichEd> *if you
<RichEd> 9sorry)
<nixternal> lol
<RichEd> too much passion in this thread !
<nixternal> ya there is, and that is good
<nixternal> i think the other communities need this as well
* RichEd states categoricaly that no decision have been taken and this debate is god ... we are in the ideas stage ... and this has all been discussed in edubuntu-meetings for 3 weeks now
<RichEd> *good :P
<nixternal> heheh...kick the keyboard
<RichEd> Burgundavia ??
<HedgeMage> I blame invisible typo gnomes!
<Burgundavia> RichEd: sorry, moving upstairs
<RichEd> okay ... let me repeat ... 
<Burgundavia> no, I go tit
<RichEd> Burgundavia: can you please confirm if you agree or disagree with this: "Edubuntu is an Ubuntu variant that provides an education or classroom desktop and tools."
<nixternal> s/variant/project ?
<nixternal> i can't remember what the community is using this week to explain the differences between all of the "flavors"
<Burgundavia> how about this "The Edubuntu project is a place for Educators and Technology Professionals in the education sphere to learn about Ubuntu in education"
<Burgundavia> that is very rough, but I think it captures what I was trying to say
<RichEd> okay ... hold that thought ... please no one interrupt until we can get this clear
<RichEd> Burgundavia: And Edubuntu the CD ? the product ? 
<Burgundavia> Edubuntu the project, which has a host of tools to offer educators, one of which is LTSP
<Burgundavia> another of which is SchoolTool, or postfix, et.
<RichEd> Burgundavia: (with all due respect for the moment, can we leave LTSP out of it ... that is a small part of our install base)
<Burgundavia> our project scope should very deliberatly not mention any specific technology or just the desktop
<Burgundavia> yes, leaving out LTSP has been waht I have been arguing all along ;)
<RichEd> But then, and this is the point I *need* to understand, what is the difference between Edubuntu the Product and Edubuntu the Project ?
<Burgundavia> we currently have not gone beyond the single product
<RichEd> If I go to the education department and give them a CD to build their server farm, what CD do I take ?
<Burgundavia> hence the confusion
<RichEd> if you look here: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/education/planning
<RichEd> you will see that we are now looking at how to go wider ... and the thoughts are in public space ;)
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> that is exactly what I have been saying
<RichEd> if you look here: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/education/planning/profiling you will see the start of a stakeholder / user list
<Burgundavia> I am just saying lets use the Edubuntu name to move it forward
<RichEd> I see that we may cause confusion with the name of the product, coming back to me taking my CD to the education department.
<RichEd> What if the school, like a current project in the exUSSR is installing Kubuntu on 3,800 desktops. Is that Edubuntu ?
<Burgundavia> well, you ask them what they are using it for an offer them either a desktop or a server cd
<Burgundavia> is that 3800 in a school?
<RichEd> No a nuber of schools as a pilot, if the pilot works, it goes national.
<RichEd> *number
<Burgundavia> I would put that under the Edubuntu scope
<RichEd> I (myself) would put it under Ubuntu in Education scope.
<RichEd> Where Ubuntu is the family, and not Ubuntu the product.
<RichEd> Edubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Ubunu are all products in the Ubuntu family.
<RichEd> my opinion only !
<Burgundavia> I don't see it like that
<Burgundavia> I see Edubuntu has this place for people to come together and talk about and use Ubuntu (and its variants) in educational environments
<Burgundavia> regardless of their particular choice of technology (KDE, GNOME, LTSP, etc.)
<RichEd> (other people can join in now ... by all means)
<nixternal> im on my way to bed, as right now im to far tired to make sense i think ;)
<nixternal> the passion is deep w/o a doubt, and i wish this passion would spread like the ecoli in the spinach here  ;)
<Burgundavia> nixternal: dude I ate some of that spinach and am still here
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> then you didn't get "The Spinach"
<Burgundavia> nope
<RichEd> So, in the edubuntu.org space, if someone is discussin how to best configure the Ubuntu Content Server for the Education Server Farm, and tune it for performance, is that debated in our area, or in Ubuntu area (because to the techie his problem is no different to serving info from say a Bank's Public Content server)
<Burgundavia> my sanity is, of couse, already questionable
<nixternal> i cut back on rabbit food the past few weeks
* RichEd needs more coffee in - back in a sec
<nixternal> off to bed i go..i will pick this up later, and i will continue to follow this... HedgeMage, i promise to start helping with some doc stuff with you as well. i have the svn here local and have began playing around with it..when i get some good hacks, i will email you the .diffs
<nixternal> g'nite all!
<HedgeMage> nixternal: thank you, you are wonderful.
<HedgeMage> nixternal: if you pm me an email address I'll give you commit privs
<nixternal> i wouldn't go that far, but no problem ;)
<nixternal> nixternal@ubuntu.com ;)
<nixternal> my spamfilters rock!
<HedgeMage> cool, I'll send off your info tonight :)
<nixternal> no rush, but thanks!
<nixternal> i need to get with Jerome as well on some stuff..maybe he will be around soon
<RichEd> g'night nixternal 
<HedgeMage> sweet dreams, nix
<cbx33> hey HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> heya cbx33 
* RichEd is back
<cbx33> howz it going
<HedgeMage> wb, RichEd 
<cbx33> hey RichEd 
<HedgeMage> cbx33: okay... kind of sleepy... hubby screwed up his laundry so I'm staying up to fix it
<cbx33> awwww
* HedgeMage is a sucker
<RichEd> Burgundavia: Please read through the planning pages and mail me comments. This is a public & community debate. The good thing is that we all agree on what needs to be done. We're just debating *where* :))
<Burgundavia> RichEd: will do
<RichEd> tx
<highvoltage> 232
<RichEd> asdl reset :( did I miss any comments ?
<HedgeMage> nope
<pygi> morning everyone
<HedgeMage> morning, pygi 
<pygi> hey HedgeMage :)
<RichEd> greetz pygi: we are meeting later today ... confirmed :)
<pygi> RichEd: confirmed :)
* RichEd is back in 15
<juliux> RichEd, morning
<RichEd> hi juliux ... how are you ?
<juliux> RichEd,  i am good, i am testing the beta ;)
<juliux> tomorrow my thinclients are back
<RichEd> juliux: It looks like Poland is a definate, and I will be stuck in Europe for Mon/Tue between conferences.
<juliux> cool
<ogra> juliux, make sure to have at least two NICs in the server 
<RichEd> juliux: Mon 20 - Tue 21 November -  Will you be abee to host a visit for me ?
<ogra> we default to a two NIC setup now
<RichEd> juliux: where are you based ? I must look at logistics ...
<juliux> RichEd, Dresden
<juliux> RichEd, in the middle of noware
<ogra> no warez ? 
<ogra> :)
<juliux> ogra, yes i know, i have to build ot my tv card and to build in a second nic
<RichEd> okay ... is their an easy train route to poland (confirming city today)
<juliux> RichEd, we can met in berlin if this is easier for you
<juliux> ogra, but two nics is a problem for little pc like my one
<juliux> ogra, i have only one pci slot
<ogra> well ... its a longstanding request ...
<ogra> you can still install on a single NIC system but will miss the nice autosetup
<juliux> and what is with an edubuntu mac mini server? has the mac mini two nics?
<ogra> (i.e. gettingstarted is still valind then)
<juliux> i have to nic but one is wlan ;)
<ogra> thast ok
<ogra> (in fact thats how i test it ;)
<juliux> yes but it is not working during the installation process
<juliux> it is a usb stick and you ne the prism drivers
<juliux> need
<ogra> bah, broadcom
<ogra> right
<juliux> i have no money to buy a new wlan stick
<ogra> well, then you have to do manual fiddling, you know the drill
<juliux> i will test it with to nics,
<ogra> it will still work like before with a single NIC setup (you just get one more warning that the autosetup doesnt work in the installer)
<ogra> with two NICs you dont need to touch *anything*
<juliux> that is cool
<juliux> but at first i will install the ubuntu beta on my notebook
<ogra> pfft ubuntu
<ogra> who uses *that* ?
<juliux> i on my notebook
<ogra> bah ... use the RIGHT one :) not this derivative of edubuntu :)
<juliux> i also have to see what the rest is doing
<ogra> i actually saw the ubuntu dapper artwork for the first time in wiesbaden at the sprint :)
<pygi> ogra: muahaha, lol :)
<MrGreen> Quck question can I update ubuntu to edubuntu (ie is ther a guide in wiki) ?
<cbx33> yes you can it's easy
<cbx33> ogra: over to you
<MrGreen> cool thanks
<MrGreen> I'll look in wiki id its there
<ogra> sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop ;)
<MrGreen> no
<MrGreen> lol
<cbx33> there ya go ;)
<cbx33> easy as pie
<MrGreen> hehe
<MrGreen> don't mention food
<MrGreen> I'm hungry
<cbx33> awww now I gotta go eat again
<cbx33> I'm hungry too
<MrGreen> lol
<ogra> if you want the ltsp bits as well, install edubuntu-server and follow the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall doc
<MrGreen> thanks
<MrGreen> more the games for my young one
<MrGreen> & themes
<ogra> ah, then -desktop should suffice
<MrGreen> thanks guys the nicest irc channel on the web ;-)
<cbx33> MrGreen: no worries
<cbx33> now go get some food and insall edubutnu ;)
<MrGreen> ok ...
* MrGreen loves cbx33 very much
<cbx33> hehehe
<RichEd> ogra : see -> for numbers
<ogra> could someone look over http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/lts.conf-params and tell me if thats understandable ?
<ogra> oh
* ogra just got a mail from Jerome 
<cbx33> just looking
<ogra> seems they had a typhoon at his place
<cbx33> oh no
<cbx33> is he ok?
<ogra> it shut off everything (power internet etc)
<RichEd> is he okay ?
<ogra> he seems ok ... and he still can send mail apparently
<ogra> ...
<ogra> hey ogra we just had a bad typhoon here yesterday nothing works except
<ogra> mobile gprs. power expected to come back sunday. oh well...no power no
<ogra> phone no internet thank god gprs still works. - Jerome G.
<ogra> ...
<cbx33> good
<cbx33> I'll keep them in my prayers
<ogra> just in case anyone wonders
<cbx33> ogra: wrt to that document
<ogra> yep ?
<cbx33> there is a little inconsistency in defining the options
<cbx33>  (PRINTER_0_WRITE_ONLY) (Y, N (default)) - serial only
<ogra> N is the default here
<cbx33> oh hang on
<cbx33> I lost my thingy that I was using as an example :0
<cbx33> one questions I had
<cbx33> why do some allow 
<cbx33> Y,y and some only Y
<cbx33> ah yes here  (PRINTER_0_PARITY) (default: N) - serial only
<ogra> because the ones that base on plain ltsp code only respect Y/N
<cbx33> you have Y,N(default)
<cbx33> and default: N
<cbx33> is there anyway to keep that consistent?
<ogra> we had defaulted to real boolean values in dapper and now we merged both, so you can specify either
<cbx33> or do you think it doesn't matter
<ogra> (for our code)
<ogra> no, that should become consistent ..
<cbx33> I have to go for lunch (playing drums for the kids)
<ogra> the doc is for sbalneav, he will work it out more readable
<cbx33> bbl
<cbx33> ogra: ah ok cool
<cbx33> in that respect it seems fine
<ogra> and merge it into the handbook
<ogra> but i need to ship something in ltsp itself as well, so thanks for the suggestion, i'll fix that
<cbx33> lemme know if you need any proofing
<ogra> willdo
<pygi> uh, that's bad :(
<pygi> the typhoon!
<pygi> ogra, RichEd : I was just in  a local school talking with a head-master ;)
<RichEd> hi pygi and was he interested ?
<pygi> RichEd: well, they called me 'cause they wanted more information 
<RichEd> lovely ...
<pygi> it's kinda techical school, so I'll have to explore can we offer them all the apps they would need
<RichEd> ^^^ good ... move that exact thought to the msg box
<TeePOG> hi guys
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<bddebian> Hello TeePOG
<TeePOG> hi bddebian
<pygi> bddebian, TeePOG hey ho :)
<TeePOG> hi pygi
<bddebian> Hi pygi
<bddebian> pygi: You didn't install pyeducation, did you? :)
<pygi> bddebian: hm, I have?
<bddebian> Hmm, it blew up for me :-(
* pygi thinks that's weird
<TeePOG> tell me guys, why would a user not be able to launch an app from the command line? it works from my login, but when I su to the new account, it says "Xlib: Connection to :0:0 refused by server"
* cbx33 is compiling wine :S
<TeePOG> hmmm cbx33, the first step is to sudo apt-get remove cork
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> but it;s being stubborn
<pygi> cbx33: pm window
<willvdl> hey guys
<willvdl> Does anyone have a few minutes to help me sort out a wireless problem on our NEPAD project?
<RichEd> hey willvdl ... try #ubuntu as well ... ask who looks after networking on #canonical
<willvdl> time critical request at the mo. will check
<cbx33> willvdl: I can try
<cbx33> what's up
<willvdl> -->
<willvdl> second thoughts..
<willvdl> we're setting up a wireless network in the demo schools
<cbx33> ok
<willvdl> but cannot seem to cennect
<cbx33> encryption?
<willvdl> iwconfig says radio off so dvcp doesn't resolve or anything
<willvdl> no encryption, open
<willvdl> for the moment
<cbx33> ok, has the button on the laptop been pressed to turn wireless on?
<willvdl> yip
<cbx33> what does lspci show
<cbx33> pastebin it
<willvdl> one sec
<willvdl> lspci|grep 220
<willvdl> gives: Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG
<willvdl> rev 05
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> argh you may have to use ndiswrapper for it
<cbx33> what does modprobe give you?
<willvdl> one sec, apparently firmware is restricted
<cbx33> oh?
<willvdl> Intel firmware licence
<willvdl> there are repositories for it somewhere...
<cbx33> ahh
<willvdl> popping in the fw file
<cbx33> kk
<rodarvus> no, ipw2200 is fully supported on ubuntu
<rodarvus> no need for ndiswrapper
<willvdl> just testing again
<willvdl> hmmm, checking software control for turning the thing on
<rodarvus> willvdl, the firmware comes with linux-image-2.6.15-<something> on dapper
<willvdl> hmmm, wasn't loading it
<willvdl> modprobe gives zzr
<rodarvus> what is 'zzr'? :)
<willvdl> dmesg says Kill Switch must be off for wireless to work
<rodarvus> willvdl, 'kill switch' is a hardware button
<rodarvus> I have one of these on a ipw2100 and on a ipw3945 notebooks
<rodarvus> its likely that you have one of these on your machine too
<rodarvus> if its an ibm thinkpad, its usually Fn+F7 (or some button close to it)
<willvdl> compaq nc6220 
<rodarvus> do you have a Fn key?
<willvdl> no hardware switch
<rodarvus> no key has a third symbol ressembling a '((*))' ?
<willvdl> hang on... /sys/bus/pci/drivers/   looking for rf_kill
<willvdl> heck. there is but no dice (not recognised)
<rodarvus> I think you can only control it via hardware (its the case on the two laptops I mentioned)
<rodarvus> willvdl, on the ipw3945 I have an external trigger, which can not be easily seen. this trigger is the hardware button for wireless
<rodarvus> maybe would be worth checking if there is any hidden trigger on your laptop too?
<willvdl> the big bold wireless button doesn't do anything. LED changes but dmesg shows nada
<rodarvus> oh, so there is a wireless button :)
<rodarvus> willvdl, lets try harder - make sure the wireless button is on the right position, sudo rmmod ipw2200 && sudo modprobe ipw2200
<ogra> rodarvus, isnt the firmware in the restricted repos ? 
<willvdl> rodarvus, just checking for hotkey drivers quickly. 
<rodarvus> (wild guess) maybe the driver is only checking for hardware button when loaded
<rodarvus> ogra, no, dpkg -S /lib/firmware/* and you'll see
<rodarvus> (I thought it should be on -restricted-modules too, but it isnt')
<willvdl> going to try rfswitch
<ogra> ah, right ... 
<ogra> in any case the nc6220  should work, iirc it was even shipped with freedos and ubuntu by HP
<cbx33> ipw2200 is not fully supported
<cbx33> trust me
<cbx33> I have a tosh with one and it didn't work
<ogra> could be that you need the modified HP iso 
<cbx33> it is a slightly differnt model which requires ndiswrapper
<ogra> huh ? 
<ogra> then youre the first person i see using ndiswrapper with ipw at all :)
<cbx33> I can't remember who helped me out on it, but I needed ndisweapper
<cbx33> ogra: indeed....
<ogra> did you talk to mjg59 ? 
* pygi really didn't see ipw+ndiswrapper
<rodarvus> me too, I have only seen positive experiences with ipw drivers
<rodarvus> all of the ones I've seen work 100%, including wep, wpa, network manager, etc
<pygi> rodarvus: right
<cbx33> yes I did ogra 
<cbx33> I think
<rodarvus> I think my ipw3945 even supports wpa2, but I don't have a wpa2 router to check
<paolob> Hi guys! My edubuntu pc has 2 nics: the first is always eth0, but the 2nd is sometimes eth1 and other times eth2. eth1/2 is the nic where the clients are connected, and the problem prevents all the stuff from working, because in /etc/network/interfaces I define eth1, and when it is eth2 it keeps unconfigured. Any hint?
<ogra> paolob, define it in /etc/iftab
<ogra> mn iftab should help you
<ogra> *man
<willvdl> there's a debian package for rfswitch, is there one in ubuntu repositories?
<cbx33> willvdl: any luck
<willvdl> urk, just trying to get an rfswitch package
<paolob> ogra, thank you
<paolob> ogra, when is /etc/iftab read, at boot or when configuring the interfaces?
<paolob> ogra, when is /etc/iftab read, at boot or when configuring the interfaces?
<ogra> at boot
<ogra> before configuring the interfaces indeed :)
<paolob> ogra, thank you, let me reboot then
<rodarvus> willvdl, there is no (official) package for rfswitch on ubuntu *and* debian - maybe a third party repository?
<willvdl> seems you're right. they're getting the source.
<cbx33> what is rfswitch
<willvdl> linux-source-2.6.15 (2.6.15-23.39) changelog says it is added
<willvdl> cbx33, it's a driver for handling software-key enabling fo rf devices
<willvdl> devices without hardware enabling
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> willvdl: howz it going
* TeePOG is back
<TeePOG> hi everyone
<TeePOG> RichEd: ping
<ogra> cbx33, seen mjg59's comment on -devel to my question ? 
<cbx33> no I'm not in there
<cbx33> what was it?
<ogra> <ogra> mjg59, there is a ipw2200 version you have to run with ndiswrapper ?
<ogra> <mjg59> ogra: No
<cbx33> argghhh !
<cbx33> I know I'm right
<cbx33> it doesn't work without it
<cbx33> I promise ou
<cbx33> you
<cbx33> I shouldn't have to do any config right
<cbx33> just turn it on and it works
<ogra> if its really a ipw it must
<cbx33> well it doesn't it is a special case
<RichEd> hi TeePOG ...
<cbx33> ogra: really it should just work shouldn't it
<cbx33> i turn on the laptop and it works
<TeePOG> RichEd: got time for a quick pm?
<cbx33> but it doesn't unless I modprobe ndiswrapper
<cbx33> I spoke to someone in devel before
<cbx33> this is dapper 
<RichEd> busy wrapping for a trip TeePOG ... send pm and I will tey to cehck it out before I have to leave
<pygi> where is our Beta download image? I wanna download :P
<ogra> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edgy/
<pygi> hm, thanks
<sbalneav> Morning all
<pygi> hey sbalneav ;)
<sbalneav> Hello pygi
<pygi> wb cbx33 ;)
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<cbx33> howz it going
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> really tired this morning
<cbx33> I'll bet
<LaserJock> not sure why ;-)
<LaserJock> my wife made be go to bed at midnight...without the laptop :/
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> mine does that too
<ogra> sbalneav, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/lts.conf-params
<sbalneav> ogra: Perfect!
<sbalneav> I've been working through them in the docs
<sbalneav> BTW, the X_MODE_0 stuff IS in there, or at least appears to be from ltsp-client-start
<ogra> i think thats all of them, i'll go over them again on the weekend to see if i missed anything
<ogra> no
<sbalneav> they show up as preseeds though?
<ogra> its not supported by our xserver-xorg
<sbalneav> Ah.
<ogra> neither is X_VIDEO_RAM
<ogra> that needs fixing in edgy+1
<sbalneav> OK, so the CODE's there, but it's ignored.
<ogra> worst case we'll just sed them 
<sbalneav> OK, yeah, we'll need to fix it.
<ogra> yep
<sbalneav> Good to know!
<ogra> the ltsp code is there, but the xserver is not using the preseed value
<sbalneav> right.
<ogra> and from a discussion with the devteam, the VideoRam parameter shouldnt be supported, but rather be fixed in the driver
<sbalneav> Ah, so that it autodetects correctly in all cases?
<ogra> so the dirver picks the 16384 for certain via chipsts 
<sbalneav> That would be the best, yes.
<ogra> (in that special case)
<ogra> yes, indeed it should do the autodetection right for all drivers :)
<sbalneav> Things are working well here with the beta.  I've been using it for two days here at work.
<ogra> cool
<ogra> i have a weird prob with my 150 (whicjh i like more since the graphics are more crisp)
<sbalneav> I've been checking ltspfs bugs failthfully every day, so far none.
<sbalneav> Oh? What's the problem?
<ogra> somehow it hangs itself unconditionally ... 
<ogra> but not reproducable ...
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<ogra> sometimes after 1h sometimes after 3days
<sbalneav> nbd swap issue?
<Burgundavia> aren't unreproducible hangs fun?
<ogra> it seems to have to do with sound
<sbalneav> Ahh.
<ogra> (at least i suspect that)
<sbalneav> esd == sucky
<ogra> might be the driver, might be esd ... 
<ogra> well, it shouldnt hang the whole client 
<sbalneav> if esd == sucky:
<sbalneav>     replace_with = pulseaudio
<ogra> the ethernet port is somehow slightly loose ... so it ight also be a HW prob
<ogra> its hard to say if the machine hardlocks and you dont have logs :)
<sbalneav> Try bumping up the nbd swap from 32 to 64 meg, see if that helps.
<ogra> i ran it without swap at all already ... and it didnt happen more often or so
<ogra> so i dont think its mem related
<sbalneav> A head scratcher.  Did the magic sysrq key still work?
<ogra> nope
<sbalneav> Yikes!
<ogra> thats why i suspect the ethernet port
<sbalneav> Either that, or power supply's getting duffy.
<ogra> hmm, that coud be
<sbalneav> You got a voltmeter at home?
<ogra> could also be a heat problem ... i noticed it gets quite warm ... unlike the 170
<ogra> somewhere in a moving box ... need to dig
<sbalneav> I'd check and see if +5 and +12 are within spec.
<ogra> liekly in the garage
* ogra finally subscribed to lwn after reading it for years 
<sbalneav> I've had a subscription for a couple of years now.
<sbalneav> That and digitalblasphemy.com
<ogra> sbalneav, looks like pulseaudio upstrem might be in mountainview ;)
<ogra> *upstream
<sbalneav> Oooh, perfect.
<ogra> hahaha
<ogra> i got a mail from squashfs upstream :)
<sbalneav> about?
<ogra> telling me that squashfs raises the ram requirements for the kernel and thus it cant be that we support 32M clients
<ogra> i wonder if he heard about modules in his life
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> ogra: how are you doing?
<juliux> hi highvoltage 
<ogra> highvoltage, just peeking in for a minute here, having a coffe after i slept most of the afternoon
<highvoltage> hey juliux 
<highvoltage> ogra: ok. i'm still downloading beta 2. from what I read LTSP 5 is amazing. great job, I hope you have a good weekend
<ogra> the beta testing was quite exhaustive and we have craftsmen in the house that start very early in the morning (plumbing the heating for the solar heating)
<ogra> so i dont get much sleep atm
<highvoltage> :(
<highvoltage> I had some heavy sleap deprivation earlier this week too, it's not fun
<ogra> well, but a neat solar heating, its worth 2 weeks with less sleep
<ogra> and they were ultra quic with the roof
<highvoltage> oh that's good at least
<ogra> (actually they were done after two days)
<ogra> well, and i'm really proud about edubuntu finlly being at the point i set as my personal goal (no manual intervention needed at all)
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> make sure  to have two NICs in the server to get the full benefit of it ;)
<highvoltage> we might have struc our first big commercail deal today
<ogra> yay
<highvoltage> we have a big .za real estate agency with more than a 100 office that just want to provide email and internet to all their agents
<highvoltage> so we're going to do an ubuntu + ltsp setup for them
<highvoltage> they are quite keen on the idea of ltsp
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted | https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuKnot3LTSPTesting | edgy beta: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edgy/
<ogra> :)
<ogra> grab the default lts.conf from edubuntu for it ;)
<ogra> it switches on all the bells and whistles ;)
<highvoltage> Knot3LTSPTesting should probably be BetaLTSPTesting?
<highvoltage> ok :)
<ogra> yes,but i need to rename the wikipage first ...
<ogra> (to lazy to do that now ... i'll d it over the weekend)
<highvoltage> by the time implementation is at full speed Ubuntu will probably be at egdy+1 already.
<ogra> it also needs some corrections
<highvoltage> I'm amazed how fast ubuntu moves.
<highvoltage> ok, np. just thought I'd mention it :)
<ogra> well that were only 4 months for development
<ogra> but edubuntu had it most code additions this time 
<ogra> i wonder if i start to get bored in Feisty
<highvoltage> heh
<ogra> (edgy+1)
<highvoltage> I'm sure someone with your skills and talent will never get bored
<highvoltage> there's plenty of problems to solve :)
<ogra> well, so much time ... and only polishing to do
<highvoltage> is it going to be a polish-only release?
<ogra> well, indeed there are some big projects ahead ...
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i plan to finally dig into ldap/kerberos 
<ogra> that will be quite big 
<highvoltage> that would be a great ++ though
<highvoltage> authentication is my personal #1 headache in our implementations
<ogra> then we'Re looking into microphone and volume control on the clients
<highvoltage> well, at least, if I want ot do it properly
<ogra> probably redoing the whiole sounds arch
<highvoltage> local apps on LTSP thin clients would also be great
<ogra> and CD writing ;)
<ogra> thats rather edgy+2  ... the auth stuff must work before
<highvoltage> ah, that's right
<nixternal> did you guys have some release notes done up for the beta release?
<nixternal> this is for a fridge story 
<ogra> did you notice the howto on diskless workstations in the ltsp-server  docs ?
<highvoltage> LTSP is indeed a great technology. I'm glad ubuntu is giving it so much attention.
<highvoltage> no, I havven't
<highvoltage> is it in edgy?
<ogra> nixternal, sorry no ... only the ltsp bit in the ubuntu release notes ...
<nixternal> ahh..ok thanks
<ogra> i can write something up on the weekend, are you fridge admin ?
<ogra> highvoltage, yep
<ogra> highvoltage, there is also a quemu script to test without client HW :)
<highvoltage> kewl :)
<ogra> ok, need t go ... else GF will rant ... 
<pygi> heya all
<juliux> hi pygi 
<HedgeMage> Hi, all
<HedgeMage> RichEd: still up and about?
<j3ckyl> Hello was wondering if someone could tell me the boot option in edubuntu to disable the loading of pcmcia modules during boot
<j3ckyl> I have tried NOPCMCIA=yes and have also tried pcmcia=off
<LaserJock> j3ckyl: you might have better luck in #ubuntu.
<j3ckyl> thanks
<glasswalkertheur> hello all
<LaserJock> hi
<glasswalkertheur> was wondering if anyone was having a problem with symantic
<LaserJock> symantic?
<glasswalkertheur> or if there was an alternative, it keeps locking me up
<glasswalkertheur> package manager
<LaserJock> synaptic
<glasswalkertheur> synaptic
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> it just freezes your screen?
<glasswalkertheur> I can run apt-get no problem
<glasswalkertheur> yup
<glasswalkertheur> on a vanilla box
<glasswalkertheur> fresh install
<glasswalkertheur> other stuff seems fine
<glasswalkertheur> I thought at first it was the nVidia drivers, so I did a fresh install
<LaserJock> does it do it as soon as you start it up?
<glasswalkertheur> not usually, when I select install
<glasswalkertheur> either the update manager, or from the system>admin 
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> glasswalkertheur: I'm not sure what's going on. I haven't heard of that. You might want to try #ubuntu as there are a lot more people there and it's a generic problem
<glasswalkertheur> ok, thanks
<glasswalkertheur> I will check later
#edubuntu 2006-09-30
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<ubuntu> hello folks
<ubuntu> 3 tries of fresh beta install, 3 different set of problems
<ubuntu> first: installations breaks on broken cups package
<ubuntu> second: the user isn't created
<ubuntu> third: no X && GDM existance
<LaserJock> heh, fun
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<ubuntu> LaserJock: indeed, fun :)
<LaserJock> I think perhaps 1) is  a known thing perhaps
<cbx33> LaserJock, I just managed to get CounterStrike Source running on linux ;)
<LaserJock> heh, good for you
<ubuntu> LaserJock: I think 1) was supposed to be fixed :P
<ubuntu> LaserJock: and howcome on second and third try it didn't happen? :P
<LaserJock> I've been spending the day avoiding a nervous breakdown ;-)
<cbx33> whaaa>?
<cbx33> y?
<LaserJock> ubuntu: not sure, odd
<LaserJock> cbx33: oh, the usual. Very tired today, plus lots and lots of "stuff"
<cbx33> yeh?
<cbx33> server still doing good?
<LaserJock> I think so
* ubuntu would like to get some answers if possible;)
<LaserJock> ubuntu: ask #ubuntu+1
<LaserJock> I really don't know
<ubuntu> this is edubuntu :P
<LaserJock> sure
<ubuntu> ahm, oki 
<LaserJock> but the installation is the same
<LaserJock> pretty much
<LaserJock> I don't think you're issues are edubuntu specific
<ubuntu> will do
<cbx33> LaserJock, sorry dude I'm here now
<cbx33> howz it all going
<glasswalkertheur> hello all
<glasswalkertheur> I am having lockup problems, now on lots of apps (poor trouble shooting I think)
<glasswalkertheur> A friend mentioned via chipset problems, anyone have any ideas?
<glasswalkertheur> possible via chipset problem
<LaserJock> glasswalkertheur: you could check launchpad to see if a bug has been filed about it
<glasswalkertheur> how would I do that
<LaserJock> http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<glasswalkertheur> thanks, I will take a look
<glasswalkertheur> is their any way to identify the actual chipset, w/o firing up BartPE?
<LaserJock> lspci?
<glasswalkertheur> cosole app?
<LaserJock> yeah
<glasswalkertheur> console :-)
<glasswalkertheur> worked great, many thanks
<axl000> where is mhz??
<LaserJock> not here apparently
<LaserJock> :/
<cafuego> axl000: All 2000 of them are currently in my PC.
<axl000> hola mhz
<axl000> estaba preguntndo por ti
<axl000> mhz?
<mhz> ooops
<mhz> re
* mhz slaps himself for turning beep down
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<HedgeMage> hi Burgundavia 
<pygi> eh, this was bad
<HedgeMage> what was?
<pygi> HedgeMage: using beta install cd
<HedgeMage> ahh
<pygi> it isn't usable
<LaserJock> I just upgraded tonight
<pygi> LaserJock: I tried doing fresh installation from beta install cd
* HedgeMage prods RichEd-1 to see if it's alive.
<HedgeMage> Guess not.
<pygi> HedgeMage: you read the post? :)
<pygi> morning all
<HedgeMage> What post?
<pygi> HedgeMage: the one on planet I told you to read? :P
<HedgeMage> reading now... it's hard to read because it's missing a couple of newlines
<HedgeMage> ahh, cool... good of you to mention the Handbook stuff.
<pygi> HedgeMage: :)
<pygi> HedgeMage: yes, sorry about newlines, my fault again :P
<HedgeMage> np
<HedgeMage> probably wouldn't have bugged me if I weren't half asleep
<pygi> hehe :) 
<pygi> HedgeMage: monday very early morning I'm outta hear
<pygi> here*
<pygi> HedgeMage: you can try contacting me by mail. hopefully I'll visit some internet caffe's so I could respond to everyone
<pygi> dunno how long before I'm done moving & with internet access
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> understood
* HedgeMage hugs pygi 
<HedgeMage> good luck!
<pygi> yay, thanks :)
<LaserJock> umm, hi Pete
<skwashd> hi all
<skwashd> i decided to restart with using the edgy beta
<skwashd> but i can't find the ppc live cd
<skwashd> is there not meant to be done ?
<lucasvo> skwashd: I think you can find it at archive.ubuntu.com/ubunt/ but I don't know the exact path.
<lucasvo> no sorry
<lucasvo> skwashd: I meant cdimage.ubuntu.com
<skwashd> lucasvo: i couldn't find it there, on my ISP's mirror or releases.ubuntu.com
<lucasvo> skwashd: I actually donn't seea beta at all.
<lucasvo> are you sure it's already released?
<skwashd> got a daily live
<skwashd> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/current/
<lucasvo> that's not bad 
<skwashd> lucasvo: the others have been
<lucasvo> I'd take this as well
<skwashd> lucasvo: i suppose that will have to do then
<juliux> hi lucasvo 
<lucasvo> hi juliux 
<ogra> skwashd, the ppc livecd was oversized (apparently still is) due to a bug with the archive software ... so we couldnt release it
<ogra> it should still work if you use 800MB media or a DVD to brun it to
<skwashd> ogra: larger than 700M ?
<ogra> yes
<skwashd> hmmm ok
<skwashd> thanks
<ogra> launchpad had (has) a hiccup :/
<ogra> edgy-live-powerpc.iso         30-Sep-2006 00:58  744M 
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20060928.1/ has the iso that *would* have been released without that big
<ogra> *bug
<ogra> its identical to the other betas
<skwashd> ogra: ok ... i think i will wait for the size issue to be resolved then
<ogra> do you actually need a live version ? the install CD is fine
<ogra> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edgy/
<skwashd> ogra: for doing a multi arch install
<ogra> ah, right :/
<skwashd> ogra: :)
<skwashd> for now i think i will just go with xubuntu on the laptop
<cbx33> what's the bug?
<cbx33> ohi see
<cbx33> archive software
<Malcolm_> I'm using ubuntu at the moment, but I'm planning to set up one computer as a server and others as workstations(at least one development/web server, and one for educational and gaming purposes).  what're the advantages to edubuntu?  does edubuntu have everything ubuntu has?  and should I install all edubuntu or all but 1 ubuntu or kubuntu and 1 worksation /w edubuntu?
<Kamping_Kaiser> edubuntu has ltsp out of the box, and more 'educational/kiddie' apps
<Kamping_Kaiser> if those are advantages, there you go :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> edubuntu doesnt have the same package selection as ubuntu
<KeeN> ahoy
<KeeN> hey
<KeeN> I need help ... I just installed Ubuntu and I'm trying to configure my graphic card ...
<bddebian> Howdy
<highvoltage> howdy mr bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya highvoltage
<dibs> hello everyone
<dibs> hi i'm new to linux and am currently doing my final year dissertation on open/free software for education
<dibs> does anybody know how to get the root password
<dibs> anyone here?
<dibs> ?
<highvoltage> egh. just missed dibs. I wish people were a bit more patient :)
<pygi> highvoltage: ping, have a sec?
<highvoltage> pygi: yep
<highvoltage> if all goes well I'll have Internet at home again from Wednesday
<highvoltage> that will make my life so, so much easier
<pygi> highvoltage: do you know do we have to ship entire KDE language packs because of KDE-Edu?
<pygi> highvoltage: or do we have them separated?
<highvoltage> I don't know the exact details, I know that the language packs we do ship for the kde apps are bigger than the gnome ones
<highvoltage> pygi: oh, sorry, I understand your question now, the anser is yes :)
<highvoltage> it's because of KDE-edu
<pygi> highvoltage: thank you :)
<highvoltage> pygi: how is it going?
<pygi> highvoltage: good and busy :) Preparing for moving :)
<pygi> highvoltage: what about you?
<highvoltage> going good. had a hectic week, was at an expo so didn't get to do much work
<highvoltage> next week I'll be playing catchup again
<pygi> nice :)
<highvoltage> but things are getting more organised for me, so I'm glad
<pygi> Let's see how I will go :) Dunno how long will I be without internet :P
<highvoltage> there's less and less times where I have to get frustrated because of delays, etc
<pygi> nice :)
<highvoltage> pygi: well, I've been without internet at home for nearly a year now. IT SUX!
<pygi> highvoltage: right, indeed
<highvoltage> next week I'm getting a high-speed wireless connection, I can't wait :)
<pygi> highvoltage: but being without internet in time for UDS and Hungarian conference is bad :P
<pygi> RichEd-1: ping, could I grab you for a second?
<highvoltage> i doubt he's there :)
<pygi> right, ergh, dunno if I'm allowed to say something :)
<pygi> ah, nevermind then :)
<pygi> highvoltage: trying to write sensful mail to Anne-Marie
<pygi> that is a joy :P
<highvoltage> who is Anne-Marie?
<lucasvo> !restrictedformats
<ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats  -  See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html  -  But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<pygi> highvoltage: founder of KDE-Edu :P
<highvoltage> aaah :)
<lucasvo> I wonder how she found out about Gallium
<pygi> lucasvo: Gallium is not a secret
<pygi> this is FOSS world
<lucasvo> pygi: but for example google gives me only the launchpad hit
<pygi> lucasvo: You would except KDE-Edu founder to be interested in Edubuntu ;)
<lucasvo> pygi: what will you write? 
<lucasvo> it won't be hard
<pygi> lucasvo: I wrote it already
<lucasvo> just got it while I was typing
<pygi> it's a compromise beetween what I really wanted to write
<pygi> I cannot talk about some things :)
<lucasvo> pygi: you mean some sort of: Get real and becoma a gnome user. KDE s**** that's why we made gallium? ;)
<highvoltage> I don't quite understand, why is there so much hostility against the creation of gallium?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: usually I am also against creating things twice. but in this case, I don't see a better solution
<lucasvo> it's a huge amount of work being done twice. which could also be invested in other edu apps
<highvoltage> it's not as much as creating it from scracth though, since gallium will use the data from kalzium, so it's a very small part of the work that's being duplicated
<lucasvo> highvoltage: keeping bug free, creating packages, making publicity... 
<lucasvo> maintainaning the chemical data is not that big, since most of it is already well known and not in research anymore
<Laser_away> gallium was metioned on planet by pygi
<highvoltage> i think publicity and creating packages are minor compared to the CD space problem
<highvoltage> I think in the end it comes down to is priorities
<highvoltage> unforunately you always have to make some sacrifice
<highvoltage> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I can understand the problem if you look at it as "Edubuntu ships KDEEdu, Edubuntu is also developing a GTK port of Kalzium"
<LaserJock> but I don't feel like "Edubuntu" is developing Gallium
<LaserJock> it's not speced
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> LaserJock: you're developing it, right?
<LaserJock> well, I started it
<LaserJock> I haven't done any of the code yet
<LaserJock> but I feel like I'm the guy in charge, I think ;-)
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> I guess I'll send a reply
<LaserJock> I kinda feel bad, because it's kinda like "Yeah, we want to drop KDE Edu
<lucasvo> LaserJock: isn't that true?
<LaserJock> yes, but that's not really nice to say to the KDEEdu founder
<pygi> LaserJock: I haven't said we wanna drop KDE Edu
<pygi> lucasvo: and no, ofcourse I dont think that everyone should become Gnome user
<pygi> lucasvo: that kind of attitude sucks heavily dude
<lucasvo> pygi: this is not my attitude however it's quite similar. 
<LaserJock> but being able to drop KDEEdu *is* a part of why gallium was started
<LaserJock> so I want to be careful
<pygi> LaserJock: ups, you are right, might be that she saw my blog post where I mentioned Gallium
<pygi> LaserJock: ah
<lucasvo> pygi: Too bad gnome and kde do the same stuff and don't collaborate. I think it should be possible to develop something that pleases both users. 
<lucasvo> pygi: so I think, one should merge them.
<pygi> lucasvo: Free (libre) world is about a choice
<lucasvo> pygi: yes.
<pygi> we're don't want to become Windows!!
<pygi> we*
<lucasvo> pygi: how comes that still major distributions all look the same?
<pygi> lucasvo: you don't how wrong you are
<lucasvo> pygi: ?
<lucasvo> pygi: I don't see much difference in fedora, suse and ubuntu
<pygi> I do, a lot of difference
<lucasvo> what? 
<pygi> why aren't you part of fedora or suse community then?
<pygi> why have you choosen the Ubuntu/Edubuntu?
<lucasvo> because it used apt
<pygi> lucasvo: do you know how & why Gnome was created?!
<lucasvo> no
<pygi> Because KDE was built on top of then propietarity (not free) QT
<pygi> It was started to offer the user a freedom!
<pygi> lucasvo: FYI, fedora & suse can also use apt
<pygi> apt-rpm
<lucasvo> so actually there is no reason anymore not to merge 
<pygi> there are reasons!
<lucasvo> pygi: that the community has different taste?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think 'drop' is also a strong word
<pygi> lucasvo: uh, you don't understand :-/
<highvoltage> 'not included by default' is probably more accurate
<lucasvo> highvoltage: not rely on it 
<pygi> highvoltage: I believe if we had space on cd, we'd include anything we can :P
<highvoltage> since it would still be just an apt-get install away
<highvoltage> pygi: that's probably true
<pygi> highvoltage: one partial solution probably might be separating lang packs just for apps we ship
<pygi> if that is possible
<lucasvo> pygi: what big difference is there (for the user, not the developer) between QT and GTK?
<LaserJock> there was/is some speed differente, and the look is just different
<pygi> lucasvo: but it's not about the toolkits
<LaserJock> yes
<lucasvo> pygi: starting by having one toolkit would make portability between gnome and kde much easier.
* highvoltage catches up with e-mail nd has a better understanding of what this is about
<pygi> highvoltage: KDE-Edu and edubuntu
<lucasvo> LaserJock: if that is your reason she'll say: Why didn't you just enhance kalzium?
<pygi> the mail subject :)
<highvoltage> pygi: read it :)
<lucasvo> which is true
<pygi> highvoltage: yay :)
<highvoltage> well, it's a great way to work with a good upstream project
<pygi> lucasvo: uh, uh, you have some fundamental thinking errors
<pygi> about F/OSS world
<lucasvo> I wouldn't call it errors.
<LaserJock> lucasvo: because I want a GTK port of Kalzium, not kalzium
<highvoltage> lucasvo: there are many others that feel the same
<LaserJock> pygi and lucasvo: let's keep it civil
<pygi> LaserJock: yes, I'll stop :)
<highvoltage> lucasvo: we've come under fire in tuxlabs a bit for running kalzium on Xfce in tuXlabs
<lucasvo> highvoltage: I lost track, feel the same than what?
<highvoltage> people tell us it's inefficient to run apps that require different frameworks, wasting memory and resources
<LaserJock> yeah
<highvoltage> lucasvo: people who want a GTK port of Kalzium
<LaserJock> it's not *only* a disk space issue
<highvoltage> lucasvo:don't get me wrong, I *love* the KDE-edu project, and I think we can support them whatever happens in the future
<LaserJock> as highvoltage has said, running a KDE app in Gnome is slower and more memory intensive than running it in KDE
<highvoltage> perhaps the Kubuntu team could even work on a edubuntu-kubuntu-desktop, that could include the kde-edu tools instead of edubnuntt(ehatever)-tools
<lucasvo> kedubuntu?
<highvoltage> perhaps
<highvoltage> who kows?
<highvoltage> perhaps we could even work on an edubuntu-add-on cd. I've been wanting to work on something like that for a while.
<lucasvo> that sounds like a good idea
<highvoltage> when I have my internet connection back next week, that would be possible again
<lucasvo> highvoltage: however that "only" solves the space issue, not performance issue
<highvoltage> that way you can make it easy for users to distribute kde-edu and it's libs, and even more additional tools that we'd like to see there.
<lucasvo> btw, anyone contacted gperiodic and told them about gallium?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: you're completely right, but it's at least a compromise and a temporary solution
<lucasvo> highvoltage: of course it's not a bad idea. I'd like to have more edu software as well
<lucasvo> mostly academic software, since edubuntu is not very useful for me anymore
<pygi> lucasvo: is gperiodic developed anymore even?
<lucasvo> pygi: don't think so
<lucasvo> 1.3.3 Fri Jan 18 10:34:38 EST 2002
<lucasvo> last changelog entry
<pygi> lucasvo: that's why I asked
<lucasvo> pygi: but having the owner put a link onto the page that one should use gallium since it's more up to date would be nice
<LaserJock> gperiodic is basically dead and I looked at the code
<LaserJock> It's written in C and has a bad storage format for the data
<LaserJock> umm
<LaserJock> did somebody forward an email to ?
<LaserJock> me
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I don't know. we don't have access to your inbox :p
<LaserJock> well, I just all of a sudden got an email about gallium
<highvoltage> ah, from ogra?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> apparently pygi started more then he intended
<LaserJock> gallium is not a thread topic
<LaserJock> as "hidden" port of Kalzium
<LaserJock> http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/
<nixternal> somebody offered me $25 for an Edubuntu CD today
<LaserJock> http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/
<highvoltage> nixternal: wow!
<nixternal> I had told a couple of people about Ubuntu, and they were teachers, so I brought up Edubuntu, and I pulled a CD from my trusty bag, and I had them, hook-line-and-sinker
<LaserJock> http://hardly.cubic.uni-koeln.de/pipermail/blue-obelisk/2006-September/000862.html
<highvoltage> nixternal: our local lug had a stand at a big local show this week, and people had a tough time believeing that we didn't want to sell them stuff :)
<nixternal> The lady asked, how much do  those go for, after I explained "Free"...so i did a salesman, "well...ummm.."
<nixternal> and she goes, I will give you $25
<nixternal> I said, $25 is to low, way to low
<nixternal> but I will give you a few for free ;)
<nixternal> i either have a couple new possible clients, or dates
<nixternal> don't know yet
<highvoltage> hmmm... so is blue obelisk essentially the same as gallium in concept?
<nixternal> highvoltage: that rocks right there...we did the same and got the same reaction...so we started selling the CDs for $1 each, and donated to a Children's fund
<highvoltage> nixternal: we sold some ubuntu cd's that we made ourselves (shipit couldn't get it here in time) for R10 (about US$2) and we're going to make t-shirts for everyone that volunteered on the stand
<nixternal> ooh...you know what...that isn't that bad of an idea...i ahve the entire Ubuntu Chicago team hounding me for t-shirts
<highvoltage> heh :)
<nixternal> i can get nice embroidered Ubuntu Chicago Polo shirts displaying all 4 logos for $18/ea
<nixternal> awesome work...this lady did the shirts for a company i used to own when we did a golf outing
<highvoltage> sounds cool
<nixternal> I need about 50 ;(
<nixternal> thats a lot of CDs at $1
<LaserJock> arrrggg
<highvoltage> our t-shirts are simple blue golf shirts with the CLUG logo on... I think I can find a pic somewere...
<nixternal> LaserJock: it is saturday, you better be with the wife, otherwise i think you will need to redecorate that dog-house
<LaserJock> she's here and sick still :/
<nixternal> you better tend to her then ;)
<highvoltage> http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/futurex2006/pict0196 <--- that's about the only one that I have
<LaserJock> but this stupid gallium thing is going to give me a headache today :(
<highvoltage> still have to upload the good photos I took :)
<nixternal> now that would actually work right there
<highvoltage> LaserJock: in free software, whenever you're going to take on something worth while you're ultimately going to make some people angry
<highvoltage> LaserJock: don't let some dumb comments get to you, gallium is a good idea
<LaserJock> oh freaking heck
<LaserJock> http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/27154.html#comments
<nixternal> ahhh, talking about the kde-edu comments i take it
<LaserJock> no, I got an email, a few actually
<LaserJock> a little "WTF are you doing?"
<highvoltage> geez
<LaserJock> all from one sentence on planet.ubuntu.com
<nixternal> ouch..i never seen that post right there
<highvoltage> well, that's being uncollaborative, and not in line with any kind of good CoC
<nixternal> i can understand the frustration though, i mean we work hand in hand with debian, and most of the time with the WM's as well
<LaserJock> well, they don't have any facts
<LaserJock> they didn't ask me or any gallium dev
<LaserJock> we are not writing it from scratch
<highvoltage> geez, some people we really nasty
<highvoltage> the anger that powers those blog comments aren't backed by facts either
<LaserJock> well, there aren't any facts
<highvoltage> they even call canonical evil. what's so evil about them? they're just another random company.
<LaserJock> we haven't even published any code
<LaserJock> all we have is an LP page
<highvoltage> they seem to have gfound some code on cbx33's website
<highvoltage> (gfound being a very strange typo in this case :) )
<LaserJock> argg
<LaserJock> they went trolling around for stuff, they took a lot of effort
<nixternal> you know, that started off as a legit "grief" they had, over soemthing they really hadn't researched, which we know is stupid for one...and second, all it takes is for one idiot to start an anti-ubuntu/canonical flame war...jealous people are ignorant ;)
<LaserJock> I don't even know where to begin
<nixternal> truthfully, i wouldn't respond to the blog
<nixternal> i would do it the professional way, as that blog is loaded with "nonsense" from people to scared to let the world know who they are
<LaserJock> well, I just added myself to planet.u.c so maybe I could start a blog war ;-)
<nixternal> if you are going to complain about something. let us know who you are, so we can contact you and talk it over
<highvoltage> hehe
<LaserJock> nixternal: I'm not so worried about the blog as the 2 mailing lists it's on right now
<nixternal> thats the saem as someone who complains about the government, and then during elections, they don't vote
<nixternal> i seen it ont he dev list earlier
<highvoltage> Anne-Marie did the decent thing, at least
<highvoltage> I think it was big of here to send that message to edubuntu-devel
<highvoltage> perhaps it's better to work with her as the leader instead, she can deal with all the kde-edut minions who are misbehaving.
<nixternal> watch that tone of voice towards KDE*
<nixternal> ;)
<highvoltage> I meant it in the kindest possible way :)
<nixternal> im off the leash today
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i do however have a new saying for gnome users and c++
<nixternal> lol
<LaserJock> well, the blog was from the Kalzium author
<LaserJock> and there is a Blue Obelisk thread
<LaserJock> where the emailed the author of another project called gallium
<LaserJock> I've never heard of Blue Obelisk and they are mad at me for not joining their organization
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I can't find that blog entry
<highvoltage> LaserJock: do you have a link for me?
<highvoltage> I can't find it on laserjock.us
<LaserJock> what?
<LaserJock> I haven't done anything on laserjock.us
<LaserJock> I just woke up
<LaserJock> to this
<highvoltage> ah ok. where i the blog entry where you said something about galium?
<LaserJock> I didn't
<highvoltage> aah, I see
<highvoltage> ok, I thought this was sparked by a blog entry of yours.
<LaserJock> pygi had *1* sentence about it on planet.u.c
<highvoltage> geez, then the kde-edu people are even more touchy than I though
<highvoltage> *thought
<LaserJock> "ravis, Pete, and some more people started their work on Gallium, replacement for Kalzium, and we can already see some usable results."
<highvoltage> Just found it :)
<highvoltage> i think he should perhaps have said 'developing a GTK front-end to kalzium', instead of using the word 'replacement'
<LaserJock> yes
<highvoltage> people get touchy when they hear that word :)
<LaserJock> but that's all it took
<highvoltage> hectic
<LaserJock> the thing is, I think I'm the one in Edubuntu that likes KDE the most
<highvoltage> I might be second or third
<highvoltage> I like KDE a lot, but not to the degree that I'm on any level passionate enough to fight for it
<LaserJock> I have no problem with it and I'm very impressed with Kalzium
<highvoltage> everytime the kalzium issue comes up, people in edubuntu have acknowledged hoe great kde and kalzium is.
<highvoltage> even ogra, who isn't a fan of KDE, acknowledged the achievements of Kalzium and talked about all the awards that it has won, etc.
<LaserJock> I just wanted to have an app in Gnome to be maybe as good
<LaserJock> oh man, I actuall read the blog comments
<LaserJock> I totally just want to cry right now
<pygi> bleh, now go ahead and attack me for mentioning gallium :)
<pygi> LaserJock: what comments? /me doesn't see any comments
<nixternal> i will fight for KDE ;)
<nixternal> I say we have a GNOME vs. KDE Wrestlemania!
<nixternal> actually, that is a bad idea, i recently seen an image of the KDE hackers, and it was quite scary
<LaserJock> pygi: I don't blame you. It was a pretty innocent comment.
<LaserJock> pygi: http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/27154.html#comments
<nixternal> ya, pygi isn't to blame at all, they took everything out of context in the blog, and instead of contacting us, they decided to start a flame war..more than likely just a feeble attempt to get people to visit their blog
<pygi> LaserJock: bleh, won't even read that. I hate that Gnome VS. KDE stuff
<pygi> I develop for both platforms, so what, go ahead and kill me now :P
<nixternal> it seems that, that is the intention of many of these types of blog posts in the first place..if i can get you to visit my site and get upset about something with ubuntu, I have won, because you will keep checking back to see the comments
<LaserJock> well, I wouldn't bother if it was just some guy
<LaserJock> but that's *the* Kalzium developer
<pygi> whatever, lemme comment
<LaserJock> pygi: tbh, I'd rather you stay low, if you don't mind. It's not your project and you didn't do anything wrong
<nixternal> Edubuntu-folks prefere to rewrite Kalzium from scratch instead of packaging Kalzium.
<nixternal> so, this version of kalzium on my machine, how did it get there?  if we didn't package it?
<pygi> LaserJock: but this was my mess
<nixternal> alrighty all...i need to get a life and back away from the keyboard for a little while
<nixternal> i shall return later to devulge in my life as a Kubuntu & Edubuntu junky!
<nixternal> ttyl
<pygi> LaserJock: so should probably be my responsability to clean it up
<pygi> LaserJock: but ok, will stop
<LaserJock> pygi: well, it's really my mess
<LaserJock> you just helped ;-)
<pygi> LaserJock: heh, thanks for comforting me
<pygi> :P
* highvoltage doesn't even think it's a mess
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I guess so
<LaserJock> I'm writing edubuntu-devel now
<LaserJock> hopefully clarify that one
<LaserJock> and then I'll email this Blue Obelisk group
<LaserJock> and leave the blog alone, although it has a huge amount of misinformation
<pygi> LaserJock: please cc me if possible
<LaserJock> pygi: ok, I probably won't on edubuntu-devel since I assume you get it ;-)
<pygi> LaserJock: right
<pygi> this is particulary idiotic:
<pygi> The guys who started that project seem to be religious butt heads that are living in their small narrow world (like the maintainer of Edubuntu whom I know personally).
<pygi> I mean wth?!
* highvoltage wonders who that is
<highvoltage> ogra definately doesn't live in a narrow little world
<highvoltage> neither does anyone else I can think of in Edubuntu
<LaserJock> yeah, can you imagine seb128 adding KDE-Edu to Ubuntu? ;-)
<highvoltage> :)
<Amaranth> I seem to remember the whole point of gallium being getting rid of the massive i18n packages pulled in for a few small apps
<LaserJock> *cough*
<LaserJock> well, for me it was a little more lofty goal
<highvoltage> lofty?
<LaserJock> I find Gnome sorely lacking in educational apps
* highvoltage never knew that Americans used that word
<LaserJock> we can speak some decent English... if we want to
<highvoltage> hehe :)
<LaserJock> ok, edubuntu-devel email sent
<LaserJock> on to Blue Obelisk
<LaserJock> I feel bad because they sent those emails to the other gallium project
<pygi> LaserJock: uhm, really? :-/
* pygi waits Laser's mail
<LaserJock> yeah, I found out after I made the LP product that there is a gallium project for a Carbon emulator
<LaserJock> which is soooo totally different then our project that I didn't think it'd be a big problem
<pygi> o joy
<LaserJock> but apparently they didn't read the project homepage before the blasted email to the poor guy
* pygi should really stop blogging :P
<LaserJock> no, dude, really
<pygi> ah, well, two months without internet should settle everything :P
<LaserJock> in a way it's good to have this now
<LaserJock> rather then when we actually *had* a release :-)
<Amaranth> The other gallium project is dead
<Amaranth> starting in 01 and has no code available
<pygi> Amaranth: some guy in comments is talking about some personal branch or whateva
<pygi> http://www.progbox.co.uk/gallium/
<Amaranth> that's my code
<Amaranth> back later
* pygi smells a bad mail server since still no Laser's mail
<pygi> will brb, soon hopefully
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> why isn't my email showing up :/
<LaserJock> heh
<cbx33> Hey Mr Late Night
<jbrefort> LaserJock, I read carsten's blog and ca'nt understand why he is so agressive, he is much more kind usually
<jbrefort> LaserJock, I'd like to have some discussion about Gallium with you, since the wiki page does not says a lot
<cbx33> oooh gallium talk
<LaserJock> jbrefort: let's go to #gallium
<jbrefort> ok
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<littlepaul> ping ogra :)
<littlepaul> hi mdz
<LaserJock> Amaranth do you have a minut in #gallium?
<pygi> hello from fresh beta installation :)
<LaserJock> cool
<pygi> LaserJock, care to point me again to that comment page?
<LaserJock> do I have to? ;-)
<LaserJock> I'm trying to stay calm ;-)
<LaserJock> http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/27154.html#comments
<pygi> not really, no :)
<pygi> thanks
<LaserJock> ok, well we sort of fixed that one
<pygi> HedgeMage :)
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<HedgeMage> I thought you were moving?
<pygi> HedgeMage, early Monday
<HedgeMage> ahh okay
<cbx333> hi all
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> hey pygi
<pygi> cbx33, auth yourself pls :P
<cbx33> heard about gallium
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hi hedgemage
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<LaserJock> cbx33: do you know c++?
<cbx33> little
<cbx33> and only in windows environment 
<LaserJock> well, gallium is no more
<LaserJock> we had a good talk
<LaserJock> and the periodic table in gchemutils is more developed
<cbx33> ok, i'll delete my repo
<LaserJock> and is pretty well established in the chemistry software world
<LaserJock> I do think we should continue working on this idea though
<cbx33> why didn't we know about it?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I knew of gchemutils
<LaserJock> but I didn't know they had a full periodic table
<LaserJock> and they've had a hard time getting it in the repos
<cbx33> in what way continue
<LaserJock> because of various deps, etc.
<cbx33> ahhhh
<LaserJock> it's in now
<LaserJock> but it was a bit of a process
<cbx33> cooool
<LaserJock> so I didn't look into it much
<cbx33> ok
<LaserJock> but it is a more complete chemistry package
<LaserJock> which I think would be really good for Edubuntu
<LaserJock> and apparently it is done by on that one dev
<cbx33> ok
<LaserJock> http://gchemutils.nongnu.org/ is the homepage
<cbx33> i'm gonna remove my branch
<LaserJock> so I'm going to learn some C++
<LaserJock> and try to help out
<cbx33> ok
<pygi> LaserJock, gtkmm is used for GTK period table?
<LaserJock> and hopefully Edgy+1 will have a cool chemistry suite
<LaserJock> not sure
* pygi would assume so since it's c++
<LaserJock> I'll bbiab
<Laser_away> got to run a couple errands
<lucasvo> by any chance, is it possible, that edubuntu install didn't ask me which hostname I want to use?
#edubuntu 2006-10-01
<lucasvo> anyone know what's the hype about "Pixel image editor"? It's not even open source!
<LaserJock> lucasvo: I have no idea what you're talking about
<lucasvo> LaserJock: digg, http://digg.com/software/Potential_Photoshop_killer_Pixel
<LaserJock> hmm, that is odd
<LaserJock> I hear "we need a photoshop replacement" a fair amount
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> someone needs to push GIMP
<lucasvo> pixel screenshots look quite good
<lucasvo> too bad it's closed source
<lucasvo> I am afraid that it will steal gimps market share.
* HedgeMage peeks back in
* nixternal peeks in quickly as well
<pygi> hey HedgeMage ;)
<pygi> night
<HedgeMage> wb RichEd 
<LaserJock> heh
<HedgeMage> Hrm, must have been his auto-re-up not a real him
<kgoetz> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPMultiboot should this page be reverted? its been 'cleaned'
<kgoetz> hm. was that the right link though... *checks*
<LaserJock> kgoetz: what do you mean by "cleaned"
<kgoetz> sorry, was afk. i went to the page in the edubuntu wiki, which was blank, and didnt redirect me. then i went and looked a few minutes later, and i got that link, which is valid
<LaserJock> man, this will never end
<kgoetz> can someone tell me how to remove all the ssh keys on the ltsp server+in the chroot? i'm having logging in issues, i'm wondering if its keys
<kgoetz> i just sudo rm'ed the keys, and dpkg-reconfigued the server, not sure what going to happen now though :)
<highvoltage> i think i's sudo update-ltsp-sshkeys
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage 
<LaserJock> isn't it a bit early for you?
<kgoetz> thanks highvoltage , doesnt seem to have helped, i'll have to look for another reason :|
<highvoltage> it's 07:09 atm
<highvoltage> LaserJock: hi to you to :) isn't t a bit late for you on that side?
<LaserJock> 10:10 pm
<LaserJock> still dealing with Gallium fallout a bit
<highvoltage> kgoetz: what happens when you trie to log in, does ldm just kick you out again?
<kgoetz> highvoltage: yes
<highvoltage> you might have to restart the thin client after running update-ltsp-sshkeys
<highvoltage> LaserJock: eesh
<kgoetz> and the only reference i found online so far is 'your on your own, go read some logs' :
<kgoetz> i have, it didnt help :(
<LaserJock> highvoltage: there are 38+ comments on the Kalzium author's blog
* kgoetz debates re-crating teh chroot, perhaps it wil help :|
<LaserJock> highvoltage: most of them fairly full of misinformation
<LaserJock> but I hopefully corrected the misinformation without fueling the fires ;-)
<highvoltage> what's that link to the blog again? I'd like to catch up a bit
<LaserJock> http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/
<kgoetz> perhaps i should try a different client. it might be a conflict from teh server against the pc i plugged in - but why is beond me
<kgoetz> can ubuntus LTSP handle USB mice?
* kgoetz tries to think of x-error causes
<highvoltage> kgoetz: yes, they should work out of the bo
<highvoltage> x
<kgoetz> well it cant be that then :|
<kgoetz> i dotn have an lts.conf, so it cant be anything in there causing issues.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: are you abandoning gallium based on their reaction?
<highvoltage> kgoetz: does X also not want to start now?
<kgoetz> highvoltage: no, x still starts, its teh login thats stil the problem, sorry, i should watch how i say stuff
<LaserJock> highvoltage: not based on their reaction but based on a discussion between Travis, Pete, and I and the gchemutils developer
* kgoetz goes to try client again
<LaserJock> I didn't realize he already had been working on a periodic table app
<LaserJock> although their reaction does make me wish I had never suggested gallium
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> I still believe we need a good set of Gnome chemistry apps
<LaserJock> but I believe gchemutils already has made good strides there
<LaserJock> but they have had a hard time getting into Debian/Ubuntu
<LaserJock> anyway, having a problem with Gallium is one thing, attacking Edubuntu is taking it too far, IMO
* highvoltage agrees
<LaserJock> anyway, it's sort of a frustrating thing, but I guess that's FLOSS
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hi
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: I see a lot of people talking on that blog post and lots of strong reactions from some KDE fanbois
* kgoetz finishes reading blog, mutters 'get over it already', and closes tab
<cbx33> good good
<Burgundavia> it is sad that you get fanbois of any stripe
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> i wish it were over
<kgoetz> anyone know what time ogra arives here?
<Burgundavia> kgoetz: soonish
<Burgundavia> except it is Sunday there
<Burgundavia> cbx33: and nobody even mentioned the real reason behind all of this: space savings
<kgoetz> sunday here as well. only time i can do LTSP deplyments
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> LaserJock, did in the emal
<LaserJock> well, I'm sorta over it
<LaserJock> I'd rather have gotten a positive experience out of this
<LaserJock> but I think we are better off helping gchemutils
<LaserJock> it is 1 guy doing a lot of work
<Burgundavia> yep
<LaserJock> I'm still shocked that 1 sentence in a planet.u.c post could do so much
<highvoltage> imho it sounded like a good idea from a technical viepoint to use the data from kalzium
<cbx33> i know
<highvoltage> but if it's resulting in this much hostility then it's probably not worth while
<cbx33> I was ..... gob smacked at it all last night
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yes, they wanted us to use more then just data
<Burgundavia> cbx33: how hard was that wine stuff?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: and actually the data isn't particularly Kalzium's
<highvoltage> it isn't?
<highvoltage> geez
<LaserJock> it's part of a chemistry open standards, open data project
<LaserJock> called Blue Obelisk
<LaserJock> as I found out today ;-)
<highvoltage> aaah
<LaserJock> both kalzium and gchemutils use it
<highvoltage> well that's great then
<cbx33> Burgundavia, not hard at all
<Burgundavia> cbx33: just need the latest wine stuff?
<cbx33> in fact as I'm talking to you guys I'm tabbing over to CS:Source ;)
<cbx33> yup
<kgoetz> o_0
<cbx33> full screen ;)
<kgoetz> 0_o
<cbx33> 1024x758
<kgoetz> not in wine?
<cbx33> yes in wine
<kgoetz> *blink* - pinches self
<cbx33> 40-60 fps
<cbx33> in most places
<kgoetz> ab-so-lute-ly cool
<cbx33> indeed
<Burgundavia> what is your video card?
* kgoetz might have to get his account back off a mate
<cbx33> Burgundavia, it's actually not that great
<cbx33> Nvidia 7300 GT OC
<cbx33> the 7300 series is the bottom of the pile
* kgoetz grin
<kgoetz> you people with money - all the same ;) thats friggin fast
<cbx33> but then I do also have a 4200 X2 proc ;)
<cbx33> kgoetz, it was a bday present from like everyone I know
<kgoetz> nice :)
<cbx33> just mobo proc ram and hdd
<cbx33> ;)
<kgoetz> :)
<cbx33> no way i could have afforded it
* kgoetz feels better
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> I'm gonna write another blog post
<cbx33> Bye Bye Bill - I can now be M$ free !!
<kgoetz> :)
* kgoetz should probably get lunch while he waits for ogra , perhaps that would be a beter use of my time then simply chatting :)
<cbx33> it feels damn good to be able to say that
<kgoetz> cbx33: i havent played CS for ~12, 18 months. that was the last time i ran windows on my desktop :)
<cbx33> well i installed XP on my new machine
* highvoltage has been MS-free for 3 years now :)
<kgoetz> highvoltage: :)wd
<cbx33> but had no activations left
<highvoltage> :)
<cbx33> highvoltage, allright smarty pants ;)
<highvoltage> but I still use some proprietary software :/
* cbx33 was an avid gamer before I met you guys
* kgoetz only used linux properly since ubuntu, then one day doze killed his ubuntu, so he removed doze :)
<highvoltage> (on some computers)
<cbx33> highvoltage, I still use photoshop
* kgoetz uses binary drivers
* cbx33 too
* kgoetz washes hands clean
<cbx33> if GIMP would finally get adjustment layers I could get rid of photoshop too
<highvoltage> I still us proprietary firmware, adobe flash plugin, and sun java runtime environment
<cbx33> highvoltage, yup me too
<LaserJock> ah, he is human ;-)
<kgoetz> hehe
<cbx33> some things are still necessary I believe
<highvoltage> on some PCs I am free of all of those, and I'm 100% OSS
<highvoltage> but for work I need to have flash and java :/
<LaserJock> I need acrobat
<kgoetz> highvoltage: you recompile your kernel to remove firmware? ;)
<cbx33> y?
<cbx33> to write or read?
<LaserJock> read
<LaserJock> and fill out forms
<kgoetz> if you dont your only 99.5% oss ;)
<highvoltage> kgoetz: in ubuntu you can just remove the restricted kernel modules
<LaserJock> gotta love universities and alll the forms
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> you can't just prnt them out then ;)
* kgoetz installed adobe at work recently, hope the thign lets people edit pdfs
<highvoltage> kgoetz: ubuntu seperates te non-free and fee kernel modules, so you don't have to recompile
<kgoetz> highvoltage: kernel modules yes, binary firmware no
<kgoetz> i should probably have kept that joke to myself :
<kgoetz> * :|
<highvoltage> kgoetz: I use rm quite liberally :)
<kgoetz> :)
* kgoetz rebuilds ltsp chroot :|
<LaserJock> ok, off to bed
<LaserJock> good night
<kgoetz> night mate :)
<highvoltage> night Laser_away 
<highvoltage> may the laser be with you
<Laser_away> heh
<cbx33> As LaserJock said a lot of good has come out of this gallium business but why are there some people like that 
<cbx33> it makes it hard on OSS communities
<kgoetz> i was amused by some 'thats so not oss mentality' comments
<kgoetz> when its probably mroe oss mentality then their own ;)
<cbx33> This line really gets my goat "Now, this could just be a small group scratching their own itch and not really going anywhere, but the fact it is led by a member of the Edubuntu council does raise my eyebrows a little."
<cbx33> argh
<cbx33> silly people
<cbx33> well I'm off out
<kgoetz> heh. yeh :(
<cbx33> back later
<kgoetz> later mate :)
<cbx33> keep it real guys
<kgoetz> :)
<kgoetz> can i view the man pages of packages in ubuntu online?
<Burgundavia> kgoetz: most of the man pages have not changed in decades and can be googled
<Burgundavia> there is no Ubuntu location, however
<kgoetz> ok, thanks. *investigates*
<Burgundavia> http://www.pyweek.org/e/PyAr2/ <-- typing, made interesting
<Burgundavia> Laser_away: package it!@
<kgoetz> 4 hours stuck on 1 problem. this is just upsetting :|
<kgoetz> brb
<highvoltage> kgoetz: when you ran ltsp-update-sshkeys, did the command run?
<kgoetz> highvoltage: yes, and i just recreated the chroot, and its still failing to log in
* kgoetz dist-upgrades chroot
<highvoltage> it sound like some kind of authentication problem, but I can't imagine what could possibly cause it
<kgoetz> buger. i suppose i have to wait for ogra... and hope hes willing to help on his sundays :|
<highvoltage> he sometimes drops in on sundays, so it's quite possible
* kgoetz has today and tomorrow to get this place running :|.
<kgoetz> hence my worrying about lost time
<highvoltage> what did you choose as IP address for the server?
<kgoetz> 192.168.0.2
<highvoltage> does it have more than one network card inside?
<kgoetz> yes, but i dont remember off the top of my head if the 2nd is enabled. 'll check in a moment
<highvoltage> perhaps you could try putting in an lts.conf file tha contains:
<highvoltage> [default] 
<highvoltage>   SERVER = 192.168.0.2
<highvoltage> I *think* that if it's not spesified it defaults to 192.168.0.254 for logins
<kgoetz> well, its wortha  shot :)
<kgoetz> so etc/ltsp/lts.conf?
<highvoltage> but accordig to our documentation it shoudl just work like you have it too :)
<kgoetz> it worked fine in testing, wont work in production - heard that before? ;)
<highvoltage> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<highvoltage> kgoetz: all the time ;)
<kgoetz> :D
<kgoetz> i susepct the root of my problem is that i'm using existing infrastructure, and putting ltsp on top - not installinga  clean server, with ltsp
<kgoetz> brb. clients in another room
<highvoltage> that sometimes causes some problems, but if your clients boot as far as they currently are, then you've already overcome most of them, if not all
<kgoetz> i agree, exept for the bit where its not working ;)
<kgoetz> brb. forgot [default]  in teh onfig file. try 2
<kgoetz> still no love :( *goes to find list of options for lts.conf*
<kgoetz> my dhcp server gives the client in qustion ip 30 (because i asked it to), thats outside the standard dhcp range (60-75), is that ok?
<highvoltage> that should be fine
<kgoetz> ta
<highvoltage> this isn't something I've tested before..
<highvoltage> but can you give yourself a root account in the chroot, log in on the local workstation and test if you can ssh to the server as a normal user?
<kgoetz> er, i'll check in a moment
<kgoetz> brb. testing
<kgoetz> hm. i have ldm.log :)
* kgoetz opens up
<kgoetz> Connection to 192.168.0.2 closed by remote host.^M
<kgoetz> :(
<highvoltage> have you tried creating a new user and loggin in with that?
<kgoetz> yeh, it failed (this was earlier in the day, fwiw)
<kgoetz> you any good at diagnosing ssh problems?
* kgoetz has the log, but isnt really sure wahth use it is :|
<kgoetz> perhaps tern on ssh logging on the server will give some info
<kgoetz>  Logging
<kgoetz>              with a DEBUG level violates the privacy of users and is not recommended.
<kgoetz> :o
<kgoetz> pretty hardcore
<kgoetz> ssh seems to be perfectly happy with my login. i suppose it must be PAM/login thingy thats messing up
* kgoetz suspects whatever handles logins. but bbl. geting fooood
<kgoetz> if i want to ask a questiona bout ubuntu ltsp, but not edubuntu, should i do that on ubuntu-users or edubuntu-dev?
<lucasvo> kgoetz: no, for the muekow implementation of ltsp in *ubuntu this is the correct place to ask
<Tunic_> Anybody want to try and help me with an ltsp issue?
<pygi> Tunic_: you should ask, then we'll see if we can help :)
<Tunic_> :)
<Tunic_> basically, I have half a dozen thin clients here
<Tunic_> and they boot over the network just fine
<Tunic_> but when I get to the desktop login, the keyboards cease to function
<Tunic_> although the mouse(s)/mice still work
* TeePOG greets everyone
<Tunic_> my associate here is still hacking away at the server box with no joy, while I use the boss' windows laptop to trawl the internet in search of inspiration and/or assistance
<Tunic_> the keyboards work in text mode, too.  Just not once the desktop loads.  We've tried it with xdm, kdm, gdm and ldm.
<Tunic_> we've also tried applying every fix google could yield, not that there were very many of them.
<Tunic_> any ideas would be welcome at this point
<pygi> hm, that's weird
<Tunic_> damn right it is
<Tunic_> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-ltsp-devel/2006-March/000119.html <-- that's about the most helpful thing we could find, and it didn't work.
<TeePOG> i know ubuntu's now officially in edgy... how's ubuntu? evrything running OK? or should I wait before I upgrade my production server?
<highvoltage> TeePOG: wait. tectonic is wrong, edgy has not been launched yet
<TeePOG> thanks, i was on my way back to correct myself
<highvoltage> :)
<TeePOG> oh yah highvoltage, ltns, how are you?
<highvoltage> just got back from the gym... recovering :)
<TeePOG> nice.. i'm still working... will gym when i'm retired [or when i can afford to not work 24/7] 
<highvoltage> I can't either, but last year I got a wake-up call when I had some health problems.
<TeePOG> hmm ok... i've been lucky in that regard
<pygi> TeePOG: and edgy is running smoothly for now :)
<pygi> hey folks
<TeePOG> hey pygi
<TeePOG> i'm still going to wait for a while before upgrading to edgy on my servers
<pygi> right :)
<pygi> wise decision :)
<TeePOG> anyway, i'm playing with a few distros atm, so i've got little enough time on my hands
* ogra peeks in for a minute ...
<ogra> kgoetz, can the users log in via gdm locally on the server ?
<kgoetz> ogra: yes
<kgoetz> and via gdm started with 'X -query server' from teh clients, but not through ldm
<ogra> whats in .xsession-errors ?
<kgoetz> half a tic, i'll pull it up
<kgoetz> Xsession: X session started for kgoetz at Sun Oct  1 21:26:50 CST 2006
<kgoetz> No profile for user 'kgoetz' found
<ogra> ok, there is two things you can do
<TeePOG> i had that... had to format/reinstall
<ogra> create a default profile for every user in sabayon
<ogra> or sudo apt-get remove sabayon
<ogra> as you like 
* kgoetz removes sabayon
<ogra> sabayon doesnt let users log in remotely if they arent in a default profile
<kgoetz> btw TeePOG , dont say that
<kgoetz> oh, ok
<TeePOG> ogra: is sabayon still only available in edgy? no backports?
<ogra> sabayon is avaliable since breezy iirc
<TeePOG> sorry kgoetz i misunderstood the problem... same error msg, different cause
<kgoetz> TeePOG: i dont want to hear that - i'v been dreading doign that all day, thats all ;)
<ogra> TeePOG, the "No profile for user ..." is a sabayon message ...
<TeePOG> strange... i could swear someone told me that sabayon is only from edgy
<kgoetz> ogra: back in 5 min, client i want to test on is in another room
<kgoetz> TeePOG: well, its installed on this dapper box :O)
<kgoetz> *gone*
<ogra> TeePOG, might be you mix that up with student-control-panel
<TeePOG> that's weird ogra since that system i had to redo, didn't have sabayon
<TeePOG> pehaps ogra
<ogra> sabayon isnt installed in edubuntu at all (not even in edgy)
<ogra> as long as we dont have a set of profiles we wont install it due to that bug
<TeePOG> so it's not quite working?
<kgoetz> oooooooooooooooooggggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<kgoetz> *hugs*
<TeePOG> 0.0
<kgoetz> that was it!
<TeePOG> feel the man love in this chan
<kgoetz> i owe you a large number of beers ;)
<ogra> :)
<kgoetz> :)
<ogra> i need to do a troubleshhoting FAQ on the wiki i guess :)
<kgoetz> i was only stuck on that questio for 8 hours :)
<ogra> right, and the solution takes 30secs 
<kgoetz> less :)
<ogra> :)
* kgoetz will grovel more thanks tomorrow - i have another 1.5 hours of today i want to spend deploying boxes :) thanks mate
* TeePOG is also off working... bbl
<Zico> hi, I'm trying to install edubuntu and I got problem when 79% of base system has been installed.. at that moment it is trying to install usplash
<Zico> alt-f3 doesn't indicate any problems
<Zico> installation just gets jammed there
<Zico> how can I tell installation not to install usplash?
<Zico> same problem comes also with ubuntu alternate installation cd
<|Danielle|> Nace una nueva red IRC: irc.ubuntuzone.org . Para conectarte: irc.ubuntuzone.org puerto 6668
<ogra> Zico, edgy ?
<Zico> 6.06 lts .. is that dapper or edgy?
<ogra> thats dapper
<Zico> ubuntu alternate was 6.06
<Zico> edubuntu i tried was the latest 
<ogra> how does it fail ?
<Zico> install goes nicely until installing usplash...
<ogra> can you file a bug and attach /var/log/installer/syslog to it ?
<Zico> then no progress
<ogra> (make it world readable before)
<Zico> hmm, haven't done filing bugs before.. i don't know linux very well
<Zico> just know that I've succesfully installed ubuntu on other computers
<Zico> i was wondering if there is some reason why it stops, and i could somehow skip that part
<Zico> google told something that usplash is some fancy thing, that is not necessary or something
<ogra> we could find out why it stops with the log :)
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<ogra> just describe what happens (seems not edubuntu related if the problem shows up in ubuntu on the same machine)
<Zico> so can I use ctrl-alt-del and then use some live linux cd and find that syslog from hd?
<Zico> or should I get that syslog during install using alt-f2 and then something?
<ogra> that should work, yes
<TeePOG> wbg RichEd
<TeePOG> *wb
<highvoltage> hiehie
<highvoltage> lol
<highvoltage> hahahaha
<highvoltage> http://folk.uio.no/lrisan/SkoleLinux/test4.html
<highvoltage> that web page layout looks *extremely* familiar :)
<bddebian> Howdy
<highvoltage> howdy mr debian!
<carsten> Moin moin
<carsten> <---- Kalzium-carsten :)
<highvoltage> hi carsten
<highvoltage> ogra pinged out a while back, I think he lost his connection :/
<highvoltage> LaserJock is probably sleeping right now :)
<highvoltage> glad to see you here though, the kalzium/gallium thing has caused some unhappiness on both sides. hopefully you can do something about it? :)
<carsten> no clue :)
<carsten> highvoltage: I wrote a mail to blueobelisk another to edubuntu-devel@ or something
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> I think you just being here is good. There are many possible synergies between edubuntu and kde-edu, as Anne-Marie pointed out.
<carsten> yes
<carsten> I am always in IRC btw, cniehaus@jabber.org for jabber
<highvoltage> fwiw, we use kde-edu in 200 schools here in south africa and it rocks :)
<highvoltage> ok great
<carsten> my school uses suse 9.1 or something, that doesn't rock :(
<highvoltage> :(
<highvoltage> last time I used SuSE it was quite nice. I've never used it in a school environment though.
<highvoltage> what is SuSE bad at?
<highvoltage> heh, well, perhaps this is not /the/ best time to pimp edubuntu, but edgy certainly seems to be rocking
<highvoltage> especially with the new LTSP it has built-in.
<carsten> 9.1 is a) old and b) seems to have major start-up isses.
<carsten> issues
<carsten> it takes ages to boot a pc
<highvoltage> ah yes.
<highvoltage> that kind of sucks :/
<carsten> but we cannot easily changeto something better because we lack the manpower to administer all those pcs
<carsten> and of course the time to do the switch. So we keep it "running" as long as possible which sucks because that mostly means nobody uses the pcs
<highvoltage> I've seen that happen in a bunch of schools before :(
<highvoltage> lack of manpower is a serious problem in many schools, unfortunately.
<carsten> yes
<carsten> we have one teacher who gets 22.5 min a week to administer 200+ pcs :)
<highvoltage> ouch!!
<jbrefort> in my school, we have two full time techs and one half-time teacher, but thy do not know free software :(
<highvoltage> in our schools the educators don't know free softwar either
<highvoltage> but we mangle the menus so that certain administrative functions aren't available (so that they can't break certain things)
<highvoltage> and we do some things to help them help themselves
<lucasvo> Wow, I am stunned. Suddenly all that chatter about gallium/kde/gtk and all that to the user meaningless crap...
<highvoltage> for example, we put in a troubleshooter in the web interface in the lab: www.jonathancarter.co.za/projects/xola
<lucasvo> hi carsten!
<lucasvo> funny, kalzium was about the first application I played around with on my suse 8 when I was a little kid :) 
<lucasvo> I still remember it quite good
<highvoltage> I first saw Kalzium in Red Hat 9 / K12LTSP. It has certainly come a long way since then.
<pygi> hello carsten 
<carsten> re
<carsten> highvoltage: : re
<carsten> highvoltage: : you and some other guy said something to me... as I am in winblows I lost all IRC-logs/content
<carsten> it seems after 5 min of inactivity this computer cuts the connections to the router and while at it closes all apps including this stupid Miranda-thing
<Dr_Bollokovski> lo peeps
<pygi> carsten: pasting...
<pygi> <highvoltage> I first saw Kalzium in Red Hat 9 / K12LTSP. It has certainly come a long way since then.
<pygi> <pygi> hello carsten 
<carsten> well, not the slightest idea when RH9 came out
<carsten> couldn't even tell if it was 2003 or 2005 :)
<pygi> carsten: I don't think it was 2005 really :P
<pygi> carsten: it seems it's 07/04/2003
<carsten> well, yeah. Then Kalzium improved a lot :)
<pygi> 3 years is a lot =)
<OMGWTFBBQ25> hello
<pygi> hey OMGWTFBBQ25 
* OMGWTFBBQ25 put an edubuntu LiveCD into a comp at school, booted it up, and left it in there
<OMGWTFBBQ25> I did it for the lulz
<OMGWTFBBQ25> I'm an Ubuntu user
<OMGWTFBBQ25> but I made some of the Edubuntu LiveCDs
<OMGWTFBBQ25> it's actually a really nice OS
<OMGWTFBBQ25> I was slightly surprised
<pygi> hey LaserJock 
<LaserJock> 328oh man, it never ends ;-)
<LaserJock> s/328//
<pygi> 328 what? 
<LaserJock> nothing, typo
<pygi> oh, oki :P
<pygi> LaserJock: I see there was a big mess and personal attacks on lot of people :'(
<LaserJock> yes well
<LaserJock> it happens
* pygi is higly sorry for even mentioning Gallium :(
<LaserJock> that's ok
<LaserJock> like I said before
<LaserJock> it's better to have this at the very beginning
<pygi> that's why no need to blog about apps anyone is working on
<LaserJock> well, maybe stick to ones that have a website ;-)
<pygi> nah, might get attacked again
<LaserJock> people thought we were uncollaborative
<pygi> that's what I went throught with libburn also
<pygi> now we are at such a stage that wodim wants to mimic cdrskin (our cdrecord emulator based on libburn)
<pygi> I can show you some mails, and public riots against me if you'd like :)
#edubuntu 2007-09-24
<sobersabre> hi.
<sobersabre> I am running a research lab, and we're using debian as linux distribution.
<sobersabre> I understand *buntu is a bit "newer" and "shinier" than the Debian stable.
<sobersabre> but, I don't get the "edu" thing.
<sobersabre> what's the difference between ubuntu and edubuntu ?
<sobersabre> which "educational" aspects is edubuntu taking care of ?
<sobersabre> hmmm is it for school level or university level ?
<LaserJock> sobersabre: mostly school level
<LaserJock> sobersabre: we include educational applications
<LaserJock> as well as automatic LTSP server setup
<LaserJock> it's basically education focused Ubuntu
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<sbalneav> Morning all
<ogra> sbalneav, bug 144296 :((
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144296 in ltsp "ltsp-build-client fails at -- updating inetd.config" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144296
<sbalneav> Hey ogra, saw that one.
<ogra> not sure what to do with it ... if i force the debconf frontend to noninteractive, the installer mode will break
<sbalneav> Can't actually see where it fails
<ogra> update-inetd waiting for input from debconf wheer no input should be
<ogra> i force debconf to use a pipe as its frontend for ltsp-build-client
<ogra> which is needed to pass the debconf stuff through to the installer
<ogra> hmm, wait
<sbalneav> Oh, so it's hanging at the end.
<ogra> hehehe
* ogra giggles slightly mad
<sbalneav> Found it
<ogra> welll, no
<sbalneav> It's never done this to me before/
<ogra> but in the installer we run ltsp-update-image separately
<ogra> so i can force DEBCONF_FRONTEND=noninteractive from the ipdate-image module
<ogra> *update-image
<sbalneav> Makes sense/
<ogra> it wont affect the installer at all :)
<ogra> would be easier if i hadnt to build a full client again to check if it works :/
<ogra> btw, compiz doesnt work if the server uses any of nvidia or fglrx drivers ... bot replace GL on the server and compiz cant detect it anymore
<ogra> s/bot/both
<sbalneav> So, what video cards DOES compiz work with, seeing as how now they don't use the 3100 and 3300 from intel? :)
<ogra> it works on my classmate
<ogra> using XSERVER=intel and X_MODE_0=800x480
<ogra> totally flawless until i enable fglrx on the server :)
<ogra> i think its the same with nvidia
<sbalneav> Make sure to sync from my tree before you push up the fixes from Bug #144296 , Then I'll sync from you
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144296 in ltsp "ltsp-build-client fails at -- updating inetd.config" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144296
<ogra> well, are there any changes in your tree ?
<ogra> revno: 483
<sbalneav> Yeah, there was a minor bugfix.
<ogra> message:
<ogra>   Merged from ogra
<sbalneav> /var/run/drives wasn't being created.
<sbalneav> v 484
<ogra> oooh
<sbalneav> It didn't affect usbkeys, since add_fstab_entry does a mkdir -p
<ogra> evo is evil
<sbalneav> but for cdpinger, it was a problem.
<ogra> boith commits were on the same day, evo shows them in wrong order here
<sbalneav> the C version of cdpinger will call the add_fstab and remove_fstab scripts, so next version, we can drop that bit from ltsp-client-init.
<ogra> good
<sbalneav> I did some testing over the weekend.  My goal for most of this week is just to go through everything and test to death.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> thats what we need
<ogra> i hope beta will get us some more ordinary users :)
<sbalneav> So, are we sub-ordinary, or extra-ordinary? :)
<ogra> spethial
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> lol
* ogra just dropped all remaining edu apps 
<ogra> :/
<ogra> nothing left on the server CD
<ogra> lets see if it fits now
<cliebow_> i am ordinary..want me to give a whirl?
<cliebow_> actualyy this week is a whirl..oldest daughter getting mmarried Saturday..
<sbalneav> So, essentially, we've ended up where you wanted to be anyway, Edubuntu just basically being an addon cd to a server install.
<sbalneav> Maybe we should talk about that again in Boston.
<ogra> well ....
<ogra> not really
<sbalneav> no?
<ogra> its a moodle/ltsp server that will also become a samaba server later
<ogra> not replaceable by a ubuntu ltsp server CD
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> ok
<ogra> my suggestion was based on the fact that we only have ltsp
<ogra> thanks to moquist that doesnt apply andymore
<ogra> and fredmore, and carlmore etc ...
<highvoltage> shew, it's good he got moodle in in time
* ogra sighs about his typos
<ogra> highvoltage, well, i havent tried the CD yet ... might be that we wont install it by default yet but only ship it
<highvoltage> ah ok
<ogra> nobody worked on a proper preseeding file yet and its to late for such a change
<ogra> so i have to see how many questions there are in the installer now
<bddebian> Heya
<shriphani> sbalneav: any idea when RichEd will make an appearance ?
<sbalneav> shriphani: No idea.  He's in SA, so should be a little closer to your time zone than I am.
<shriphani> hmm..
<sbalneav> Hmm SA is ambiguous
<shriphani> btw in SA we won the T20 world cup.
<sbalneav> South Africa
<shriphani> south africa.
<sbalneav> What's a T20 world cup?
<shriphani> twenty overs cricket.
<sbalneav> Ah, don't follow sports.  I'm Canadian and don't even watch hockey :)
<sbalneav> ogra: Bug #14400
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 14400 in libpaper "wrong papersize selected for Canadians" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14400
<sbalneav> um
<sbalneav> no
<sbalneav> Sorry
<sbalneav> Bug #144500
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144500 in ltsp "autopkgtest gutsy ltsp-client-core amd64: erroneous package!" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144500
<sbalneav> ogra: ??
<ogra> sbalneav, duplicate of bug 73712 and of debian bug 398630
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 73712 in ltsp "ltsp-client preinst fails when DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/73712
<ubotu> Debian bug 398630 in ltsp-client "ltsp-client: preinst fails" [Wishlist,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/398630
<ogra> [   ]  gutsy-server-i386.OVERSIZED         24-Sep-2007 18:05    0
<ogra> [   ]  gutsy-server-i386.iso               24-Sep-2007 18:02  700M
<ogra> yay
<ogra> sbalneav, iwj is playing with the autopkgtester and abuses ltsp-client as a bad testcase (ltsp-client is supposed to fail in such environments, iwj knows that)
<ogra> so just ignore any further mails with autopkgtest in the subject :)
<jamiehd> Hi guys
<jamiehd> Does anyone know of a list of the aps that are released in edubuntu, but not ubuntu
<jamiehd> I have ubuntu, and basically want to get all the programmes through apt-get without reinstalling.
<macogw> the edubuntu FAQ page still says that the LTS *will be* (future tense) released in June
<macogw> in reference to 6.06
<cliebow_> these guys have benn "haulin" with lts for gutsy and no one has had time tofix the old faq
#edubuntu 2007-09-25
<cje> hi, is anyone here familiar with networking issues using edubuntu?  I am a volunteer for a public middle school in inner city San Francisco, and we are running GNU Denemo across an edubuntu network, but it is lagging.
<cje> I'm going to step away from my keyboard for a bit.  I'll be back in about 10 mins.
<hungrysam> do you all know any good grading programs?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<shriphani> RichEd: hi
<RichEd> hi shriphani ... give me a few mins
<shriphani> ok.
<juliux> good morning
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi mate
<juliux> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> heya
<shriphani> RichEd-2: well who is this guy you said you would introduce me to ?
<shriphani> (3rd time I am asking. sorry if it irks)
<RichEd-2> jono bacon ... he heads up the community structure, and looks after the loco's
<RichEd-2> send me an email with a quick intro to yourself, what you want to do, and how the loco is or is not helping ...
<RichEd-2> i'll add a note and forward on to jono and CC you ... so we can have a 3 way to work out how to proceed
<RichEd-2> i can also bring in the OEM manager for India who is working with quite a few semi-government and open source organisations and programmmes in India
<shriphani> o.
<shriphani> k
<shriphani> richard@ubuntu.com isn't it
<shriphani> sent !
<LDS_Trooper> Greetings, on the Ubuntu website it mentions "there are also programmes to aid teachers in planning lessons" under the Edubuntu information. What are these programmes and are they also available for Ubuntu?
<LDS_Trooper> anyone?
<sbalneav> LDS_Trooper: Not sure.  Moodle, perhaps?
<LDS_Trooper> its listed here: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/edubuntu   under KDE Edutainment Suite
<sbalneav> ah, maybe they're talking about keduca
<LDS_Trooper> Would be cool if it was a little less vague. =)
<LDS_Trooper> Keduca is a neat program tho
<LDS_Trooper> What caught my eye was "planning lessons" where Keduca is more for testing.
<sbalneav> Well, moodle's going to be in gutsy, and that's a whole course content management system.
<LDS_Trooper> Is Moodle available for Ubuntu?
<sbalneav> In by default for gutsy.
<LDS_Trooper> Ok that sounds excellent.
<LDS_Trooper> I will wait for gutsy. Thanks so much
<Kalle> But you need a server to run moodle
<LDS_Trooper> Kalle, so nothing to help with lesson planning on Ubuntu without a server?
<sbalneav> ogra: Edubuntu-server is a moodle server, yes?
<ogra> edubuntu-server is an edubuntu server :)
<ogra> ltsp and moodle atm
<Kalle> Not that i know of
<sbalneav> right.
<ogra> just install moodle and postgresql
<LDS_Trooper> Kalle, So then what are they referencing on the website?
<ogra> Kalle, gutsy has moodle included by default ...
<ogra> was a fearute goal this release to make edulinux happy :)
<Kalle> hi Ogra, moodle by default as a stand alone or built in server?
<ogra> so you guys dont kill me on the weekend ;)
<Kalle> no worries
<ogra> in the default server install
<ogra> we'll make that more fine grained in the next release so you can pick components
<Kalle> ok my bad LDS_Trooper
<LDS_Trooper> ogra, do you know what they are referring to then?
<ogra> for now solving the security issues and get proper packages was the main concern
<ogra> LDS_Trooper, not really, when i saw that text last time it looked different :)
<LDS_Trooper> ok
<ogra> but then i'm to busy to also monitor the website :)
<LDS_Trooper> Just wondered what they offered for "Planning Lessons"
<LDS_Trooper> as I will be teaching over the winter
<ogra> well, moodle is surely a good pick
<LDS_Trooper> I don't run a server tho.
<ogra> for plain scheduling we had schooltool until feisty ...
<LDS_Trooper> Currently running Ubuntu Desktop
<sbalneav> Easy enough to turn it into a server :)
<sbalneav> Just install the packages.
<LDS_Trooper> Would I really need a server to plan lessons?
<sbalneav> The box you've got now would be fine.
<Kalle> It seems a lot of work for just planing lessons
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i think there was at least a timetable app in universe if that helps you
<LDS_Trooper> Hmm not sure.. but thanks.
<ogra> gtablix is the name (had to look it up)
<LDS_Trooper> I am looking for something to help with planning lessons, as in content, not scheduling.
<ogra> yeah, understood
<Kalle> Then moodel would work fine
<ogra> yeah
<shriphani> timetable app that automatically generates timetables ?
<ogra> even though i agree its a slight overkill ... we shold ahev moodle-desktop :)
<ogra> *have
<LDS_Trooper> Ok, so then I am looking at moving up to a Gutsy server so I can use Moodle to plan lessons?
<ogra> nah, just install moodle and a database server (postgresql or mysql)
<ogra> works on feisty as well
<LDS_Trooper> I think for now I will hit Google for some ideas on lesson planning. Since I can't find moodle.
<ogra> all *buntu dericvatives share the same archive, so everything in edubuntu is also in ubuntu
<ogra> *derivatives
<ogra> make sure to have universe enabled in your software sources
<Kalle> look att moodle.org to get a glimps of what moodle offers
<ogra> moodle before gutsy is located in universe
<ogra> it moved to main just now
<LDS_Trooper> I found it in Synaptic.
<LDS_Trooper> Before I was just checking the "add/remove" option =)
<ogra> ah, well, that only has apps with a menu entry (desktop apps)
<RichEd> Kalle ... 2 quick comments before I have to dash ...
<RichEd>  #1 the bundled moodle is the latest moodle release ...
<RichEd>  #2 we will be adding some 3rd party components ... like chat etc.
<RichEd> so it will be more than the moodle you have seen ...
<ogra> (not yet though)
<RichEd> ogra: for add-on testing ... not bundled into the 7.10 release
<Kalle> Why keep me waiting??
<ogra> right, well we'll hopefully have everything i hardy
<ogra> *in
<RichEd> also, ogra & co have made sure that security holes are fixed ... so people can go ahead with confidence ...
<RichEd> a large university would not want a public facing moodle that could be exploited to go mad on the network across the wore
<RichEd> *wire
<RichEd> that was the most inportant first step in formalising the bundled release
<RichEd> *important
<Kalle> Ok
<Kalle> Well, have to go. See you Ogra.
<LDS_Trooper> ok well thanks again.. cya
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: you can save your form from evince, it is just a bit roundabout
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: just have your users print to pdf
<ogra> sbalneav, i reqally think the handbook hould be crosslinked from about edubuntu
<sbalneav> Yep, they can print the filled in form, but when they save the pdf, it doesnt save the fillins, (yet)
<sbalneav> That'd be nice to have, but it's not necessary for us.  Just having the forms support is great.
<sbalneav> ogra: Sure.  The more exposure the better.
<sbalneav> The handbooks really beginning to flesh out.
<ogra> yeah, but its sad that there is no hint at all to it
<sbalneav> Right.
<sbalneav> So lets this release "advertise" it a bit more.
<sbalneav> Burgundavia: Ah. I see what you mean.
<sbalneav> Yeah, but they won't be able to re-edit then.
<Burgundavia> no, sadly not
<Burgundavia> but at least they have a copy
<sbalneav> Sure.
<sbalneav> Just having the forms is HUGE.
<sbalneav> Up till now, it was "oh, a form?  Well, try Adobe, and hope it doesn't crash, or, try to mumble your way through flpsed"
<sbalneav> Now, I can eliminate adobe AND flpsed, and just say: "click, fill, print"
<sbalneav> And then Erin Esurance pops up.
<highvolt1ge> hi Burgundavia, ogra and sbalneav
<Burgundavia> hey highvolt1ge
<ogra> hey hey
* mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | feisty (7.04) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download | please help tesing gutsy (7.10) beta https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/build/Edubuntu
<highvoltage> ogra: how is it that the testing iso isn't on the ubuntu server? and shouldn't testing come a bit earlier in the topic, since it's higher priority at this stage?
<ogra> well, my xchat only shows the end of the topic here
* mode/#edubuntu [-o ogra]  by ogra
<ogra> and i'm just counting on people reading the topic if they log in
<highvoltage> ok :)
<Tirion> /motd
<sbalneav> Huh!
<sbalneav> I live in the Second largest country (landmass) in the world (Canada)
<sbalneav> And have visited the 4th smallest (Gibralter)
<sbalneav> Smallest is Vatican City, at 0.44km^2
<sbalneav> Next is Monaco, at 1.95 km^2
<sbalneav> Followed by the Pitcairne Islands (Of Bounty fame), at 5 km^2
<sbalneav> With Gibralter coming in at 6 km^2
<sbalneav> So, I should make it a goal of mine to visit Monaco, at some point.
<sbalneav> Either that, or become a citizen of Russia, and visit the Vatican.
<sbalneav> One supposes I could become a citizen of the Vatican, and visit Russia, but I suspect being a heathen protestant might represent some small barrier to immigration to Vatican City :)
<ogra> bah, moodle asks way to many questions :/
<LaserJock> ogra: mvo found the problem, it was me :(
<ogra> youre not a problem :P
<LaserJock> ogra: I can fix it (and add the newly moved apps)
<ogra> youre a solution :)
<LaserJock> but do you want it done for Beta?
<ogra> only if i have to rebuild because the ltsp udeb doesnt work
<LaserJock> ok, so should I get approval for an upload?
<ogra> sadly my virtualbox didnt survive one complete server install yet :/
<ogra> no need for approval, just upload it will be held in the queue
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> seems this install dint survive either ...
<LaserJock> :(
<ogra> i need real HW i fear ... which i wont have until tomorrow morning :/
<ogra> well, this one survived up to "cleaning up ..."
<ogra> so i know everything apart from ltsp and grub s fine already
<ogra> gah
<ogra> moodle4 made the server fail
<LaserJock> darn
<LaserJock> dia-gnome's .desktop doesn't make it onto the addon cd because the .desktop is actually in dia-common
<LaserJock> I can just include the .desktop in the app-install-data-edubuntu package
<LaserJock> ogra: ^^ seem reasonable?
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> ogra: upload is coming up
<LaserJock> just making sure the .deb has what I want
<ogra> seems we'll need a rebuild anyway
<ogra> dropping moodle into ship
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> do you have any idea what stage it'd dying on?
<ogra> we cant put it in -server without more installer work
<ogra> well, it needs a proper pressed file and soemthing with postgres failed
<ogra> i'll keep the log
<LaserJock> I kinda wondered
<LaserJock> with all the debconf questions
<LaserJock> ogra: upload done
<ogra> thanks
<LaserJock> ogra: added a Multimedia submenu for kino and denemo
<ogra> cool
<LaserJock> atomix went into games
<LaserJock> and everything else to Graphics
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i'm pretty sad we lost scribus from -desktop
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> we really should move to DVDs
<LaserJock> this addon CD thing is a real pain
<stgraber> ogra: Are there any edubuntu ISOs that are known not to be installable and that we should mark as rebuilding ?
<ogra> yup, -server
<stgraber> ok, will disabled them
<ogra> all over
<ogra> -desktop is fine
<LaserJock> ogra: alright, I'm off. If you need something from me just email
<LaserJock> not that you should
<ogra> dont worry
<ogra> see you at the meeting
<LaserJock> k
#edubuntu 2007-09-26
<bddebian> Heya
<raymondjtoth> hi any one here good with edubuntu
<raymondjtoth> need some help please
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> Hey, ogra, you got one of q-funk's thincans?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> two actually
<ogra> shall i bring them to boston ?
<sbalneav> Man, I've been trying to figure out why the &^@$# xserver-xorg-video-amd driver segfaults on autodetect.
* ogra still hasnt got usable CDs 
<sbalneav> oh, no! How come?
<sbalneav> Still oversized?
<ogra> no, udeb broken
<ogra> :(
<sbalneav> hum.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> no fun
<sbalneav> I can't seem to figure out a way to narrow down where exactly the drivers crashing.  I've installed the xserver-xorg-core-dbg and -amd-dbg packages, but when it crashes, I still get no useful symbols
<ogra> meh
<ogra> asked bryce ?
<sbalneav> just a hex offset within the driver.
<sbalneav> I did.  He just pointed me at the "debuggingXorg" page, which was useless, because it assumes xorg is running, so you can do either a gdb attach or strace attach to it.
<sbalneav> this case is different, since xorg doesn't run for long, and when it segfaults, it dies completely.
<sbalneav> 'cuz we're just doing a -configure.
<sbalneav> I'm going to idle in xorg-devel today, see if I can spot keithp, and see if he can give me some ideas.
<bddebian> Heya
<j0ebake1> I downloaded the daily desktop image yesterday 9/25/2007 and booted it as a LiveCD.  The Applications menu didn't work.
<j0ebake1> Actually none of the menus worked.
<j0ebake1> I could right click on the "Install" icon but the "open" option didn't work.
<j0ebake1> I suppose it is better to get tribe5 then install, then update packages?
<ogra> j0ebake1, can you note your findings on https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/build/Edubuntu ?
<j0ebake1> thanks
<ogra> it actually should have worked ... (it worked fine here during my test in a virtualbox VM)
<joebob777as7> ogra, i'm getting reports of log out issues for the server i set up for my office.. had any issues? they say when they click the log out button it doesn't do anything
<j0ebake1> I burned 2 cds yesterday of that image.  I threw them away.  I'm trying it within a QEMU vm.  Maybe it was a CD issue.
<Meshezabeel> heya, just wondering if Edubuntu would consider including a java program as one of its included applications?
<ogra> Meshezabeel, i guess thats possible if it works with the free java
<Meshezabeel> na, mainly with sun java as it needs swing etc.
<ogra> icedtea will likely be included in gutsy so it will be the default on the CD in hardy
<ogra> icedtea is the free sun java
<ogra> the new one :)
<Meshezabeel> oh ok :)
<ogra> not sure about swing though ...
<Meshezabeel> guess it depends what portions sun has open sourced ;)
<RichEd> hi ogra ...
<RichEd> & Meshezabeel
<RichEd> ogra: how's the beta testing looking ?
<ogra> bad
<ogra> we're far behind, all others are done so far
<Meshezabeel> Heya RichEd
<ogra> i'm waiting for a test install of the latest iso to finish in virtualbox
<ogra> we didnt have one yet that survived the whole install
<RichEd> major problems or just itty bitty buggy bits ?
<ogra> major probs
<RichEd> :(
<ogra> the installer fixes i did to ltsp are majorly broken ... what works in a test environment doesnt necessarily need to work in the installer :(
<ogra> all i could do was to disable them piece by piece when i hit them
<ogra> the current state is that we have two progress bars in the ltsp portion of the installer where the user sees 0% for 10 mins and then it goes on
<ogra> that was the best i could do
<ogra> will need fixage next week
<ogra> (a lot of unplanned extra work :( )
<RichEd> can you still get fixes in in between beta and final for that sort of thing ?
<ogra> for that sort i have to
<ogra> or drop out ltsp
<ogra> there were far more issues ... i'll list everything in the meeting
<RichEd> okay.
<Meshezabeel> cool, the icedtea looks pretty cool, sounds like swing is now working in it more or less too
<ogra> the prob was that the isos were completely broken for two weeks due to ernel stuff and openoffice being broken so there was not much testing
<Meshezabeel> what time is the meeting?
<ogra> 20:00 UTC
<RichEd> 32 mins
<ogra> (~30 min)
<Meshezabeel> ok :)
<Meshezabeel> the calendar meeting times at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event don't seem to show up properly at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event ... sigh, have no choice but to use IE right now
<stgraber> ogra: have you tested the latest edubuntu server builds ?
<ogra> stgraber, still running ... i'm not at the critical part yet
<stgraber> ogra: 81% of system install here, ltsp is next
<ogra> i only have a virtualbox here ytm
<ogra> that takes its time ...
<stgraber> ogra: we are 4 testing it on #ubuntu-testing (2xi386 and 2xamd64)
<ogra> oh, supercool !!!
<ogra> i'm at 85% here
<ogra> Meshezabeel, there is an ical file that evolution imports fine ;)
<stgraber> ogra: no way a VB beats my real HW :)
<ogra> heh, no
<ogra> hey, i'm at "Please wait ..." :)
<stgraber> :)
<stgraber> ogra: I'm at the interesting part (Building Thin Client System)
<ogra> here too
<ogra> you wont see any progress output ...
<ogra> but it should switch to (compressing thin client image) half way
<stgraber> indeed, I'm following the install using tty4
<ogra> and more important it should finish
<stgraber> hehe, that'd be a good thing yes :)
* ogra just got some dinner ... back for the meeting ...
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu_meeting === 18 mins
<RichEd> kgoetz, karl, kamping_kaiser, small kangeroo icon and now Bambi_BOFH ?
<Meshezabeel> there's no #ubuntu_meeting
<ogra> typo
<Meshezabeel> lol
<ogra> - not _
<stgraber> ogra: correctly switched to compressing
<ogra> good
<Meshezabeel> there we go, tx :)
* RichEd imagines a small compressed ogra
<ogra> the only scary part now is the updating of inetd.conf
<ogra> thats at the very end
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting === 10 mins
<stgraber> argh, this computer is slow at compressing :) Looks like I'm getting used to Core2Duo and mksquashfs use of SMP
<ogra> heh
<stgraber> installing grub
<ogra> i was considering to use prebuild images but thats to big on CDs
* ogra dances
<ogra> can you keep the log ?
<stgraber> yes, I should be able to scp it somewhere
<ogra> hmm, i dont have the "compressing ..." screen
<ogra> just blue
<ogra> but the (virtual) disk is rattling at least
<stgraber> ogra: http://www.stgraber.org/download/edubuntu-syslog
<ogra> wow, 2.31M
<stgraber> it's 2MB large mainly due to mksquashfs flood
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> that'll be suppressed completely in the final iso
<ogra> ah, wow, that log looks sweet
<ogra> all errors i've seen before the fix are gone
<ogra> hooray !!!
<stgraber> I'll quickly reboot my laptop and use it at thin client, be back for the meeting
<stgraber> ogra: looks like network interfaces aren't set correctly
<stgraber> ogra: so dhcp wasn't able to start
<ogra> hmm
<stgraber> (/etc/network/interfaces is about eth0 and eth1 when my system has eth2 and eth3)
<ogra> oh crap
<stgraber> but I remember that we have a similar bug with some other ISO too
<ogra> that sounds like they get dynamically named
<ogra> likely udev's fault
<stgraber> maybe something wrong with udev and interface naming
<ogra> heh
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> stgraber, you know whats really bad ? ltsp-update-sshkeys requires an update-image run
<ogra> even though ....
<ogra> heh ... well, the IP should be right
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> I just manually set the IP and run dhcp
<stgraber> client is booting now
<ogra> lets see if you can log in
<stgraber> syntax error lts.conf line 18
<stgraber> (or 12, was only on screen for 1/2s)
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> lts.conf is empty
<ogra> full of comments though
<stgraber> it's 18
<stgraber> btw, I've got "isn't authorized"
<ogra> likely the last line
<ogra> yeah, sshkey is wrong
<ogra> crap
<stgraber> /etc/ssh/known_hosts is about 172.16.1.2 (internet IP) and "edubuntu"
<stgraber> nothing about 192.168.0.254
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> a glitch in the udeb i just found
<ogra> we need to configure the interface first
* ogra slaps forehead
<ogra> we'd never ever had probs with sshkeys if it would have been this order from the beginning, argh
<stgraber> ok, rebooting so I have irssi on a bigger screen :)
<JordanC> Hey guys :)
<RichEd> hi JordanC ... most people are in the meeting
<JordanC> Sorry, i'll retort
<JordanC> Also, if you can please support us in #opencurriculum too
<JordanC> Thanks !
<RichEd> JordanC: join the ubuntu-education mailing list and channel and announce that there ?
<JordanC> Sure, thanks a lot
#edubuntu 2007-09-27
<delta16> hey guy's
<delta16> can someone help me !?
<delta16> got a problem  when trying to install from the Ubuntu  CD
<delta16> i can boot , but when i get the logo with the menu
<delta16> it doesn't matther witch opetion i sellect i always gaet the error message " can not read from boot cd " !
<delta16> anyone a solution to this !?
<Kamping_Kaiser> have you run a cd check?
<delta16> it gives me the same error message
<Kamping_Kaiser> have you checked the cd image with md5sum or similar?
<Kamping_Kaiser> or different cd?
<delta16> nope ,  couse thats pretty new for me , the MD5 cheksum thing
<delta16> ho to do that !?
<delta16> im runnig ubuntu now on a VM machine on Windows XP !!
<Kamping_Kaiser> ubutnu has an md5sum tool, windows you have to download something
<Kamping_Kaiser> so if the ubuntu can access the cd, thats a better shot
<delta16> yep it can :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<delta16> so how to run that tool !?
<Kamping_Kaiser> in applications -> accessories -> terminal
<delta16> sorry new to Linux i now i also get why linux is better then Windows
<Kamping_Kaiser> type in `md5sum /dev/cdrom`
<delta16> Becouse ist just a couple of config files working together
<Kamping_Kaiser> i only know ohw to do such things in a terminal btw, thers probably other ways ;)
<delta16> instead of a whole registry and all the shit around it !!
<delta16> thanx man
<delta16>  i'm really starting to like that treminal
<Kamping_Kaiser> 'couple of configs' ... hehe
<delta16> werll as far as i know it is :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> close to my bed time :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> and my srync (of 15 gig of data) is still crusing along at 20k/s :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> ffs. i could download this faster over adsl :(
<delta16> hey keiser , do you know a good tutorial , abot using the VI editor
<Kamping_Kaiser> no, not really. never used one.
* Kamping_Kaiser had people to ask
<delta16> how to exit that god damn editor ??
<Kamping_Kaiser> my mates got a good cheat sheet apparently, but i dnt know where its from
<Kamping_Kaiser> press escape then :wq (to save) and :q! (close with no saving)
<Kamping_Kaiser> and if you press q and it says 'recording', press q again to stop it recording
<delta16> what do they mean by recording ??
<Kamping_Kaiser> recording a macro
<delta16> editing ??
<delta16> aaa
<Kamping_Kaiser> anything you type while 'recording' is there can be replayed
<delta16> a cpuple of days ago they asked me to learn to setup administer and manage a whole voip network on ASTERISK
<delta16> but its all done with a terminal
<Kamping_Kaiser> never used asterisk, i'll get to it eventually
<Kamping_Kaiser> try nano for something easier (but less powerful of course)
<delta16> Nano ??
<delta16> il try to google NANO
<Kamping_Kaiser> no, try and run nano :P
<Kamping_Kaiser> `nano` in a term
<Kamping_Kaiser> term=terminal, btw :)
<delta16> oo now i see the result
<delta16> is it some sort of editor !?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ys.
<Kamping_Kaiser> *yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> just a basic few-frills text editor
<delta16> don't need anymore to edit a config file :-P
<Kamping_Kaiser> wait until you get to squid :)
<delta16> lets try ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe.
<Kamping_Kaiser> 1600 line config
<Kamping_Kaiser> theres a few packages like that
<delta16> oo my god !!
<delta16> soo not good for me
<delta16> naa , don't wanna try that!!
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> piker :P
<delta16> oo yea jut a stupid questino ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> go for it
<delta16> but in NANo i see the command to exit is " ^X" but whe i pust "shift +6 +x" it just apears like text
<shriphani> delta16: ctrl
<shriphani> ^ = your control key.
<delta16> oooo
<delta16> damn i'm sutch a noob wit linux
<delta16> but i like it
<shriphani> so am i.
<shriphani> get yourself a few books from tldp.org
<Kamping_Kaiser> delta16, dont worry, we'll have you brainwashed in no time ;)
<shriphani> there are some excellent ones which breeze you through in no time.
<delta16> no really i'm a certiefied micorsoft expert ! but fuck microsoft im switching to linux :D
<shriphani> nice.
<Kamping_Kaiser> delta16, we hope you enjoy your stay :)
<delta16> but the only thing that i'm really missing in linux , i some harware support
<shriphani> delta16: what kind of hardware ?
<delta16> like support for webcams and things like that
<Kamping_Kaiser> what level of support?
<delta16> i don't know if my webcam wil wokr on ubuntu
<delta16> i got a logitech webcame
<delta16> becam
<Kamping_Kaiser> wait until it doesnt work, tehn complain ;)
<delta16> webcam
<delta16> ok then :)
<shriphani> http://tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/intro-linux.pdf <- thats for you deltab.
<delta16> OMG , why didn't you send me the bible
* Kamping_Kaiser doesnt get it
<delta16> that book has got moore then 200 pages
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, lol
<shriphani> oh you want more ?
<ogra> try the edubuntu handbook, that only has 50 :)
<delta16> now that you mention edubuntu
<shriphani> http://tldp.org/LDP/GNU-Linux-Tools-Summary/GNU-Linux-Tools-Summary.pdf
<delta16> what is actually the difference ??
<shriphani> ogra: edubuntu handbook is not part of the system documentation ?
<ogra> shriphani, its in gutsy
<ogra> and a copy is on the wiki
<shriphani> i see.
<shriphani> ogra: just wanted to ask something about zeroconf. I met a comp. teacher who lives in our apartment complex. he gave some good ideas to implement in my presentations.
<shriphani> so is zeroconf support present in a default edubuntu installation ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> from 7.04 yes iirc
<delta16> oo keyser BTW
<delta16> that MD5 cheksom , what is is good for ??
<Kamping_Kaiser> delta16, pres 'kam' then hit tab
<Kamping_Kaiser> and its for taking and comparing with the md5sum available on the website
<Kamping_Kaiser> check the imge is ok
<delta16> imm now on a  vm machine that is running ubuntu on  windows xp :D
<delta16> sow the cam function wont really work
<delta16> what about , GAIM !  does it supprt webcam conversations on the MSN service ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> afaik no
<delta16> no ??
<delta16> damn :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> it seems to upset a lot of people
<delta16> is ther any apliccation out ther in the wild , that supports webcam conversations on msn service for linux! ?
<ogra> isnt there gaim-vv in universe ?
<ogra> ekiga does but only via VoIP
<ogra> i.e. you cant connect to an msn networ with it but to any VoIP server
<delta16> damn sow what use do y have of a webcam on a linux machine !!
<Kamping_Kaiser> delta16, what did you just say?
* Kamping_Kaiser didnt understand half of it
<delta16> well , aperrently  ther is no linux app in out ther in the wilde tht supports webcam conversations over a the msns service :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> gaim-vv?
<delta16> well then i'l just smash my brand new logitech webcam wright in to my really old and rusty trashcan :P
<Kamping_Kaiser> or try and use it to help test/develop ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> night all
<Kamping_Kaiser> good luck with it delta16
<delta16> thanx keiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> delta16, pres 'kam' then hit tab
<delta16> thanx 4 all your help :-*
<Kamping_Kaiser> np, hope to see you around :)
<delta16> kam ??
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bddebian> Hello sbalneav
<vnl> anybody to help...
<shriphani> with ?
<vnl> edubuntu.....
<vnl> of course
<shriphani> well what about it.
<vnl> I need LAMP to be installed...
<vnl> Apache MySQL and PHP
<shriphani> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-17875.html
<shriphani> enjoy.
<vnl> but thats ubuntu right
<vnl> I have edubuntu
<ogra> sudo apt-get install apache2 libapache2-mod-php5 php5-mysql mysql-server
<ogra> something like that should help
<vnl> thanks mate...I will try one sec...
<DigeratiX> i have done all things and videos/avi/dvd will not play in edubuntu, even installed easyubuntu and added most things. Still nothing. Whats the deal? Could it be the video card?
<ogra> define "all the things" ... you ususaly dont need to do anything but click on a movie, if a codec is missing the system will offer you to install it
<DigeratiX> well at first it didnt prompt, so I began to research and install codecs and such.
<DigeratiX> totem just crashes
<ogra> easyubuntu is the same as automatix ... be careful with that (see http://mjg59.livejournal.com/)
<ogra> thast on feisty ?
<DigeratiX> yes
<ogra> hmm, i have never seen people have probs with that
<ogra> for me personally the codec instaler works fine as well
<shriphani> avi...... try installing the w32 codecs.
<vnl> well that did not help oorga
<vnl> orga*
<shriphani> but yes what are "all things" ?
<ogra> vnl, why ?
<vnl> I have no Idea
<vnl> I have Edubuntu 7.04
<vnl> I installed it
* ogra wouldnt suggest installing w32codecs to anyone... they are highly illegal
<ogra> vnl, and you installed the packages above ?
<vnl> now I need APache PHP and Mysql
<DigeratiX> i did install the w32 codecs
<DigeratiX> like I said I have installed all things
<vnl> when I typed the code...
<ogra> DigeratiX, well, up to you :)
<vnl> I mean command
<DigeratiX> this is what I get when I use totem to play an avi
<DigeratiX> @edubuntu:~$ totem
<DigeratiX> The program 'totem' received an X Window System error.
<DigeratiX> This probably reflects a bug in the program.
<DigeratiX> The error was 'BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)'.
<DigeratiX>   (Details: serial 87 error_code 11 request_code 140 minor_code 19)
<DigeratiX>   (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously;
<DigeratiX>    that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it.
<DigeratiX>    To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line
<DigeratiX>    option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful
<DigeratiX>    backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() function.)
<ogra> please use a pastebin
<DigeratiX> woooops
<ogra> well, tat might be a Xserver issue, right
<DigeratiX> so it may fall back to being a video card issue?
<ogra> or a very limited amount of video ram
<DigeratiX> its a sis video
<DigeratiX> has 630mb ram
<vnl> ogra any more suggestions
<ogra> well, how much shared videoram does it use ?
<DigeratiX> eww good question
<DigeratiX> possibly 64
<DigeratiX> or less
<sbalneav> ogra: Just a note, My clients here at work are getting USB bus dropouts.  When using USB mice, the kernel/udev decides it's getting read errors from the usb device, and unloads the driver :(  I'm going to head off to a dental appointment soon, but then I'll work at home, and try to narrow it down.
<ogra> vnl, you only need the four packages above they should ask you a bunh of questions during install and you should be all set aftewards
<vnl> never asked any questions
<ogra> sbalneav, i'm flying out in 1h and likely wont be online and back before sunday :/
<vnl> it just said....
<ogra> vnl, but they installed prperly ?
<ogra> *properly
<vnl> nope nothing happened
<vnl> I mean it asked me for the password
<vnl> I typed it
<vnl> it said reading packages
<ogra> sbalneav, feel free to proxy through LAser if you want anything uploaded (including ltsp)
<vnl> and said the installation is missintg all these
<ogra> something is wrong with your software sources ... check that
<vnl> its the original CD
<vnl> I got it from the Ship It
<ogra> apache isnt on the cD
<vnl> then...?
<ogra> it gets pulled from the online archive
<shriphani> vnl: /etc/apt/sources.list
<ogra> enable that i the software sources tool from the system menu
<ogra> its only two clicks :)
<vnl> OK then
<vnl> now the problem...is I don't have internet on that PC
<vnl> Im on windows now...
<DigeratiX> there is no other way to check or allocate shared video ram other than from the bios correct?
<ogra> right
<DigeratiX> ok well this will have to wait till i get home
<DigeratiX> thanks
<vnl> ogra is there any way I can download all that stuff
<vnl> and copy it onto a CD
<vnl> and transfer it
<ogra> synaptic has such an option i think, but you need another ubuntu machine that has net connection
<vnl> Oh...
<vnl> OK atleast let me know the conection to it
<vnl> to the net I mean
<vnl> I have a dynamic IP
<vnl> so can't use those while configuring right
<vnl> so guys
<sbalneav> You might want to google for apt-on-cd
<ogra> sbalneav, synaptic has all he needs in te file menu ;)
<vnl> synaptic...
<vnl> whats that
<vnl> I am a complete n00b
<sbalneav> Right, but if he wants to download the stuff, and burn it to a cd...
<sbalneav> or does synaptic do that?
<shriphani> vnl: why not go the packages.ubuntu.com route ?
<sbalneav> vnl: Simplest would be just to connect the box temporarily to the internet, and install the packages.
<vnl> yeah I guess thats the simplest method
<ogra> well, synaptic creates a local archive in a folder you can copy that folder and make the synaptic on the target system read it
<sbalneav> ok, heading out to dentist.
<ogra> shriphani, because that gets you into download hell packages jhave dependencies :)
<ogra> yeah, heading to the shower ...
<vnl> ehehe
<vnl> all of  are heading out
<vnl> Im so ded now
<ogra> vnl, yu could pay 1500,- to refund my plane ticket :P
* ogra would happily rather not travel this weekend :)
<vnl> ehehe
<vnl> I dubt that
<vnl> OK just tell me this
<vnl> I have a DVD Writer
<vnl> but a USB one...
<vnl> is it possible to install linux through that
* ogra does that all the time
<vnl> how will it detect USB then
<vnl> lol
<vnl> without an OS
<vnl> :P
<ogra> well, your system needs to support that indeed
<ogra> s/system/BIOS/
<vnl> Oh system BIOS does support it
<vnl> I know that much
<ogra> if you can select USB as boot device then all is fine
<ogra> if not ... there is no solution
<vnl> OH OK...I get it all now...
<vnl> lol
<vnl> thanks a lot ogra
<ogra> before the kernel gets loaded its all BIOS :)
<delta16> hey guy's
<delta16> i'm back
<delta16> thisk time with a new problem
<delta16> :(
<delta16> *this
<delta16> i now installd ubuntu 7.4
<delta16> it works great
<delta16> oo and i love the migrtion tool , that gets the files from my windows OS
<delta16> but
<delta16> i got a small problem now
<shriphani> which is ?
<delta16> i have a wirelles network runnig
<delta16> the
<shriphani> ok ?
<delta16> routers are reconizde
<delta16> and i see the SSID
<delta16> but no signal strenght
<delta16> and also can't connet to it  :(
<delta16> it's a non seacured wireless network
<delta16> the router is drom linksys
<delta16> an my  wireless signel reciefer is from E-TECH
<delta16> soo
<delta16> any suggestions ??
<shriphani> damn. 2 secs lag.
<delta16> soo sriphani , any idea on how to solve this problem ??
<shriphani> what problem repeat it again.
<delta16> ubutu findes wireless networks , but shows no signal strenghts
<delta16> an i cant connect to the networks
<shriphani> try typing the ESSID manually.
<delta16> ok
<LaserJock> bah, I woke up this morning thinking I need to make sure and remember the Edubuntu meeting
<chaneu> hi.  I'm trying to get a thinclient to connect to a server, but the client hangs at the splash screen.  I'm using edubuntu 7.04
<chaneu> Can anyone help?  sorry, forgot to put the question. :p0
<chaneu> apologies in advance - first time using xchat
<chaneu> thank you
<stgraber> Hi, sorry I won't have much time to help you as I have a meeting in 5 minutes
<stgraber> but did you try with another thin client
<stgraber> just in case of an hardware issue ?
<stgraber> (maybe the X server simply can't start due to bad detection of your graphic card)
<ross> Hi. I've installed with no errors edbuntu.  edbuntu client gets IP address and hangs at black screen.  any ideas?
<stgraber> welcome back ross, did you/can you check with a different thin client ?
<ross> Thanks.  Yes, and both stop at the same spot.  I am noticing the path in  /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf points to a relative location.  I am stating it absolutely. ??
<ross> Say, I was able to tty F1, but now cannot.  any ideas on that?  I figure it will help me if i can see more info.
<stgraber> are you using a two NICs configuration
<stgraber> ?
<ross> yes, but I did originally try with two.
<stgraber> I never was able to make Edubuntu to boot + login with only one NIC (boot is now OK with gutsy but ssh doesn't work so no login)
<stgraber> can you check on tty8, sometimes info are there
<ross> Just to note, this is the first time in 8 years I've had to pester the community with stuff I couldn't figure out on my own, and man do I need help.
<ross> no response from any tty
<stgraber> it's feisty right ?
<ross> good name.  7.04
<stgraber> sbalneav: Do you have a minute for that ?
<stgraber> it could well be a problem with the NFS server (we switched to nbdserver with Gutsy for lots of good reason :))
<ross> the client at boot shows the receiving of an IP address.  192.168.0.250 normal.
<stgraber> yes, then it should connect using NFS and boot
<ross> I will check / change nfs servers.
<stgraber> check that /opt/ltsp/i386/ is exported using NFS (/etc/exports)
<stgraber> then if you can, check if you can mount the NFS from another computer on the same network
<sbalneav> Sorry, what?
<stgraber> sbalneav: ross can't boot with feisty edubuntu server, may be a nfs issue but I almost forgot how feisty's LTSP worked :)
<sbalneav> simplest to see what's going on would be to remove the bootsplash
<sbalneav> cd /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg
<ross> I will remove the splash
<sbalneav> edit file "default"
<sbalneav> remove "quiet splash" from the end of the line.
<ross> it is removed and attempting a client boot now
<ross> lots of suff and ends with IP-config: eth) hardware... MAC address DHCP RARP.
<ross> Above that, near the beginnnig it says I have and IP address???
<sbalneav> So it's just halted there at that point?
<ross> Yes halt.  Is it possible to get an address at one stage and then need another later on?
<sbalneav> Yes, a thin client will always make 2 dhcp requests.
<sbalneav> The pxe does one, to download the kernel.
<sbalneav> Then the kernel has to do one, since pxe doesn't pass it the ip address.
<sbalneav> Sounds to me like a dhcp problem
<sbalneav> SDo you have another dhcp server on the network?
<ross> I have my client connected via Xover cable - it is alone.  So, it appears PXE will receive an IP, but the kernel won't.
<ross> Do I have to spec a path for DHCP to send from or to?
<sbalneav> Can you paste to the pastebin both a copy of ifconfig -a, and your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file?
<ross> One sec.
<ross> authoritative;
<ross> subnet 192.168.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
<ross>   range 192.168.0.20 192.168.0.250;
<ross>   option domain-name "example.com";
<ross>   option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.1;
<ross>   option broadcast-address 192.168.0.255;
<ross>   option routers 192.168.0.1;
<sbalneav> no
<ross>   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
<sbalneav> no
<ross>   if substring( option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9 ) = "PXEClient" {
<sbalneav> pastebin
<ross>     filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
<ross>   }
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<ross>   else{
<ross>     filename "/opt/ltsp/i386/boot/nbi.img";
<ross>   }
<ross>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386/boot/nbi.img";
<ross> }
<ross> ross@edubuntu701:
<ross> I have never used pastebin.
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<stgraber> ross: it's just a box where you can paste anything you want (text), then it'll give you an URL to paste on IRC
<ross> I see.
<ross> pastebin at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38841/
<ross> is that right
<sbalneav> yes
<sbalneav> and a copy of ifconfig -a
<stgraber> second filename is wrong
<stgraber> root-path too
<stgraber> root-path should be : /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> yeah, that root path is bad.
<sbalneav> right.
<stgraber> second filename should be : /ltsp/i386/nbi.img
<ross> I have changed both based on ideas on google, both were as you are currently noting, and I will put back.
<sbalneav> The default one should be fine.
<ross> all is back as you say
<sbalneav> Please re-paste.
<ross> ok. one sec
<sbalneav> and re-start the dhcpd server with invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server restart
<ross> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38844/
<ross> restarted dhcp and client no progress
<sbalneav> Your root path is still incorrect
<ross> Isn't Edubuntu supposed to connect out of the box?  My thinking is, I must have done something wrong.
<ross> root path.  one sec.
<sbalneav> yes
<sbalneav> it is
<sbalneav> You changed the root path.
<ross> okay,  I took off the nbi.img
<ross> is there something else I overlooked.
<ross> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38846/
<sbalneav> You still haven't pasted the output of ifconfig -a yet.  I'll want to see that as well.
<ross> ok
<ross> i'm on itl
<ross> i'm on it.
<sbalneav> np
<ross> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38847/
<sbalneav> ok, so the thin client is connected via a crossover cable to eth0?
<ross> yes
<ross> Recall, it is getting an IP at pxe boot
<sbalneav> Alright, so, you've restarted the dhcpd again, with the invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server restart command?
<ross> that's a big part of my confusion
<ross> yes, just now and rebooting the client
<sbalneav> ok
<ross> With number of reboots, at least I know by power switch is good.  :)
<ross> client stops at same place.
<sbalneav> ok
<ross> are there any logs on the server I can check?
<sbalneav> Lets make sure we've got an  updated kernel to boot with.
<sbalneav> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<ross> I just download the image from edubuntu yesterday.
<sbalneav> mount -t proc proc /proc
<ross> In addition, I applied all updates this morning.
<sbalneav> apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
<sbalneav> Did you do them in the chroot?
<sbalneav> So, you're doing the update in the chroot now?
<sbalneav> Is it downloading some updates?
<ross> the output shows some files were ignored.
<ross> here is one line:  Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead
<ross> I am unsure of why I would have the problem in the first place.  Do you know of any default install bugs or issues?
<sbalneav> nope
<sbalneav> can you paste the output of the /etc/apt/sources.list file in the chroot there?
<sbalneav> Just out of curiosity, what kind of thin client is this?
<ross> thin client is a compaq 330mle server
<ross> thin client is a compaq ml330e server
<ross> sorry about the typo
<sbalneav> ok, so it's pxe booting then?
<ross> yes.  every time
<sbalneav> What kind of network card in it?
<ross> realtek
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<sbalneav> 8139 type?
<ross> 8139 sorry about that
<sbalneav> heh
<ross> hmm I guess so.
<sbalneav> Wait.  Multiple ethernet interfaces in this server?
<sbalneav> that you're using as a thin client?
<ross> yes
<sbalneav> hahaha
<sbalneav> bingo
<ross> but only one connected
<sbalneav> doesn't matter
<ross> I can pull the card.  one minute
<stgraber> casper takes the wrong one :)
<sbalneav> just because you boot off one, doesn't mean the linux kernel will decide that one's eth0
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> Betcha a coffee that's it.
<sbalneav> so you download the kernel, and linux switches over to trying to use the other one.
<sbalneav> I've seen that before.
<stgraber> sbalneav: is there a bug about that ? (we should check the status of the cards and take the first ethX with a cable plugged in)
<ross> one card now.  reboot in progress
<ross> only one with no cable?
<ross> we are further along
<ross> It's still moving.  progress :)
<sbalneav> \o/
<sbalneav> Knew it had to be something goofy.
<ross> double that if I get login.
<sbalneav> Well, if you don't we'll just solve that problem too :)
<ross> You guys realize I will now have try the several configs I've used to this point to rule out 2 nicx as an issue.
<ross> long day tomorrow, but happier.
<sbalneav> Well, glad we figured it out.
<ross> I got GUI.  You can't say that just anywhere.  If I could imitate the cop off family guy  YEAHGHGHG
<ross> thanks a bunch.  Stupid NIC!  ;)
<sbalneav> No problem
<ross> I'm noticing a no keyboard response.  I must have pulled the cable during the NIC removal.   Thanks again.
<ross> all good now.
<ross> Question?  If I log into IRC on this channel, how do I see how many people are currently on?
<JordanC> On Which IRC Client?
<sbalneav> stgraber: Well, that gets a bit tricky, as now you have to propagate that info to a lot of weird places.  I suppose when we've got all the other problems solved.... :)
<ross> I am using xchat
<sbalneav> the command /users should tell you
<sbalneav> xchat should have the users listed in a side panel.
<JordanC> I'm not a big fan of Xchat, really
<JordanC> <-- Konversation
<sbalneav> irssi here
<Rondom> sbalneav: if the users list isn't visible move your mouse to the right and drag the right edge and the list will appear
<ross> heyyy!
<Rondom> (a double-arrow has to appear)
* JordanC punches the jokebox?
<JordanC> jukebox*
<ross> good enough.  have a good day, and thanks again.  Happy days are here again.  :)
<JordanC> Eyyyy
<La_PaRCa> Hey guys. Does anyone know what kind of software would allow me to manage a small school? It has to be able to handle grades and class rosters and schedules for different classroms.
<JordanC> Moodle
<JordanC> If you need any help setting it up, I'd be happy to help you
<La_PaRCa> That is kinda complex for what I need.
<La_PaRCa> This is a very small operation.
<JordanC> Hmm
<JordanC> You can just scale moodle down :P
<La_PaRCa> yeah, Im gonna take a long hard look at it
#edubuntu 2007-09-28
<superm1> hi folks, by understanding is that the edubuntu gutsy beta disks have been encountering a lot of unionfs issues, correct?
<superm1> s/by/my/
<sbalneav> superm1: Where have you heard this?
<superm1> there was talk of it in -devel last night
<superm1> relative to my time, so around 24 hours ago
<superm1> i was curious if the final beta disk was deemed better
<superm1> since mythbuntu beta disks are an absolute mess still :(
<sbalneav> I know there were problems with unionfs, but afaik, they were solved.
<sbalneav> Evening RichEd
<sbalneav> Hey ogra
<sbalneav> You're up early
<ogra> 2h of sleep
<sbalneav> At the hotel?
* ogra cant even keep his eyes open properly
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> Heh
<ogra> i urgently wait for mail from RichEd (i think he forgot that cyprus is 1h ahead in time )
<RichEd> hi ogra ... i'm here ...
<RichEd> it 7:35 now your time ?
<RichEd> and you start at 9:00
<RichEd> are you going down to breakfast & to find the others ?
<RichEd> i'll send the first one through in 30 mins
<ogra> currently i'm trying to remember how to dress
<ogra> but yes
<ogra> i'll go for the others if i'm able to move
<RichEd> okay ... go meet the others and pop back before you leave
<ogra> gah
* ogra just tried to make some nescafe to wae up ... saldy spoon and cup are not heat proof
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
<rolandd> How come I cannot edit files owned by www-data while I am in the www-data group?
<bddebian> Heya
<shriphani> hello !
<bddebian> Hello shriphani
<sbalneav> Morning all
<juliux> mornin sbalneav
<joebob777as7> morning
<joebaker> The Firefox flash plugin's sound isn't coming out...  I installed edubuntu daily 9/25/2007 desktop.  I'm going to reboot to see if the udev update helps.
<joebaker> morning. :)
<joebob777as7> i know alsa just got updated for me...
<joebaker> http://www.dcresearch.com/ronpaul/bostonglobe.pdf   (I'm the guy in the green shirt on the bottom of the page)
<joebaker> rebooting...
<joebob777as7> and i'm the woman in the red up top...
<joebob777as7> ;P
<sbalneav> I'm the "B" in "Boston Globe"
<sbalneav> Hmmm, me evil plan for localapps is thwarted by the lack of a libnss module to allow me to read information from files other than /etc/passwd and /etc/group
<sbalneav> a la libpam-pwfile
<sbalneav> Sooo....
<sbalneav> I guess I'll just have to write one.
<sbalneav> moquist: Pingity!
<joebaker> Sound works after update and reboot on local machine.
<joebaker> joebob777as7:  Funny...
<hungrysam> how can I upgrade tuxtyping and open office on edubuntu 6.1
<hungrysam> ?
<sbalneav> hungrysam: Best way would be to simply update the edubuntu altogether.
<sbalneav> 7.04's the standard now, and 7.10 will be released soon.
<hungrysam> sbalneav: the problem is that the machines are older machines and don't run the newer versions well
<hungrysam> but I was hoping that I could just get the programs like tuxtyping and gcompris updated
<sbalneav> So, you've tried 7.04 on these machines?
<sbalneav> Between 6.10, and 7.04, there wasn't any huge increase in system requirements, so something that runs 6.10 should run 7.04 just fine.
<hungrysam> yeah
<hungrysam> I tried it
<hungrysam> the problem is that I have machines of different ages and the older ones just choked on install
<sbalneav> Sorry, I'm not meaning to be obstreperous here, but trying to update individual programs is fiendishly difficult, and is going to probably result in a frankenstein configuration that's going to be a bear to maintain.  Would you be willing to try and see if I could help you to get the 7.04 going on the machines it hangs on?  That'll probably be easier. :)
<hungrysam> um
<hungrysam> yes
<hungrysam> that would be great
<sbalneav> What kind of machines are the older ones?
<hungrysam> they aren't any specific brand
<hungrysam> I am in Peru
<hungrysam> the computers are just generic builds... from a local shop I think
<sbalneav> Sure, but what do they have for video, processor, ram, etc.
<hungrysam> not sure
<sbalneav> Looking at /proc/cpuinfo will tell you the cpu
<hungrysam> I don't have access to them right now
<sbalneav> the "free" command will tell you the amount of memory
<sbalneav> and doing an "lspci -v" will show you all the devices the machine thinks it has.
<sbalneav> maybe collect all that info together, and send it to me via email.
<sbalneav> sbalneav@ltsp.org
<hungrysam> ok
<hungrysam> thanks alot
<hungrysam> I will get that as soon as I can
<sbalneav> then when you get some time, and have access to the machines, I can help you get them going
<sbalneav> it may just be as simple as booting them with the "noacpi" option
<hungrysam> sounds great!
<moquist> sbalneav: pongoty
<sbalneav> hey
<moquist> ho
<sbalneav> So, moodle won't configure
<sbalneav> :(
<moquist> ai ai ai
<sbalneav> the database doesn't seem to want to initialize.
<moquist> which moodle? one of your own, or the Ubuntu package?
<sbalneav> Ubuntu
<moquist> AI AI AI
<sbalneav> I've dropped the database
<moquist> which db - pg or mysql?
<sbalneav> and done a dpkg-reconfigure moodle
<sbalneav> postgresql
<sbalneav> Should I try mysql
<moquist> yes
<sbalneav> ok
<moquist> but we still have to fix the problem....
<sbalneav> I'll try that tonight then.
<moquist> Are you just testing, or testing for release, or what?
<sbalneav> is a drop database/d-r moodle the "standard" way to re-initialize?
<moquist> sbalneav: I don't know...I've never seen that before. :)
<sbalneav> ok
<moquist> sbalneav: I tried to find out while I was working on that package how to clear answers out of d-i, though, so I could refresh a system and re-try the install.
<sbalneav> I'll try with mysql tonight.
<moquist> It was easy enough to whack the VM and un-tar a backup VM...
<moquist> sbalneav: What kind of error were you getting, and at which point of the install?
<moquist> e.g., was the postinst script echoing an error to the console, or was there are problem while you were walking through the moodle installation in your browser?
<sbalneav> postinst
<moquist> and echoed into the console, right, not an ncurses message?
<sbalneav> right
<moquist> sbalneav: "You must create your PostgreSQL database manually." ?
<sbalneav> yes
<moquist> is there another error before that?
<moquist> i.e., the above is sometimes a follow-up to a more specific message.
<sbalneav> Argh sorry, workping
<moquist> np
<sbalneav> be back in a 1/2 hour
<sbalneav> on tonight?
<moquist> prolly
<moquist> 10 seconds...
<sbalneav> I can step throuh it then too
<moquist> http://rafb.net/p/ZRV9Ss19.html
<moquist> one of those messages?
<moquist> Well, it *is* Friday night. I might have a hot date.
<sbalneav> no
<moquist> I'm not sure; I'll have to check with my wife.
<sbalneav> ok
<moquist> sbalneav: OK. thx.
<sbalneav> well I'll be on.
<moquist> cheers
<sbalneav> brb
<moquist> ogra: how goes it?
<ogra> well ...
<ogra> so so
<ogra> sitting in cyprus being overly tired after a week of in max 2h of sleep per night
<moquist> oh, man. You need some sleep.
<ogra> at least i'm returnong tomorrow night and will sleep the whole sunday
<moquist> good
<ogra> and currently i'm sweating my ass off (7pm, its dark and still over 30C)
<stgraber> ogra: it's still better than the <10C I got here :)
<ogra> welll, i'll have that toorrow again (and had it yesterday until 9pm)
<joebaker> Fyi
<joebaker> oops..  ignore that.
<joebaker>   \H  \H  \H
<stgraber> ogra: I don't know if Henrik pinged you about that but we are working on some testcase update for the tracker (will be in for RC testing), can you check that you are happy with the testcases shown here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/TrackerUpdate
<stgraber> ogra: I added a LTSP test to the server ISO
<cberl1> Hi folks.  Please help me restore my server to working condition!!  I am getting the message at boot:  Volume group "Ubuntu" not found
<cberl1> Helloo?  ANYONE???
<cberl1> I really need to get this working NOW.  This was the point of using Edubuntu in the first place.
#edubuntu 2007-09-29
<sbalneav> Eveing all
<Meshezabeel> heya sbalneav
<ogra> 7me heads over to the school
<LaserJock> ogra!
<ogra> hey
<LaserJock> dude, I totally forgot about the meeting the other day
<LaserJock> I woke up Thursday thinking I need to remember the meeting
<ogra> ah, was fine there is still time to discuss name changes ...
<ogra> release isnt done yet :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I think I'll shoot edubuntu-devel an email about the naming thing
<LaserJock> I just think it's difficult if we have multiple "Edubuntu"s out there
<LaserJock> we don't want somebody to say "heah, I just installed Edubuntu and I'm having problems" and the first thing we have to do is ask "Which Edubuntu did you install"
<ogra> just dont forget about the dependency probs
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> that's the thing
<LaserJock> personally I'd like to either remove ubiquity from the Desktop CD or have some specific documentation to deal with the differences
<LaserJock> we really need to decide if the Desktop CD is going to be our preferred installation method
<ogra> likely to lte for gutsy, the printing of he covers started already i think, that will be a hardy decision
<LaserJock> then we should change the download pages to not say that Desktop CDs are the preferred installation method then
<LaserJock> and because of the deps we probably shouldn't rename the addon CD
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> but should we say that it *may* be used for install additional educational apps after installing the Desktop CD?
<ogra> sure
<cyne> hj all
<cyne> *hi
<cyne> i have just installed edubuntu
<cyne> my only problem is that on the live cd there is an "Education" menu
<cyne> it is not on the installed version
<cyne> any ideas?
<cyne> need a little time to wake up, wake up... waaaaakee uuupp .. what's the story morning glory?
<shriphani> sbalneav: ?
<shriphani> I've carried out some agressive work at one school.
<edu710_> hello i search helping in tools translation
<RediXe> Hello, I have never done any type of server (windows or linux) and want to set up a diskless one. I have been looking but not understanding how I can run window's apps on one of these. Just wondering if anyone knows of a guide I can read that will explain how to set this up and be able run windows apps on the nodes. I only have 2 computers to work with. This is more for a fun project then anything else. thanks
#edubuntu 2007-09-30
<LaserJock> hi RichEd and sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> how goes it?
<sbalneav> Just switched over my main box to gutsy
<sbalneav> so I'm just sort of recovering things.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I upgraded my laptop
<bddebian> Why is ltsp-manager looking for stuff in /opt/ ?
<sbalneav> bddebian: Because that's where ltsp is?
<bddebian> It is?  It's an empty dir on my gutsy box
<sbalneav> That's because you haven't installed ltsp :)
<sbalneav> Have you built a chroot?
<sbalneav> ltsp-build-client.
<bddebian> Ah.. Probably not.  Hmm, ltsp-manager should fail more gracefully then :-)
<gotama> Hi! I'm using ubuntu 6.06.1(Edubuntu). And trying to make a bootable floppy disk (grub), help please.
<Kamping_Kaiser> what are you having trouble with?
<gotama> I'm goin to install edubuntu 7.04, but first I need to be sure that I can restart my old setup.
<gotama> So I think that first I need a bootable floppydisk.
<gotama> I'm using grub.
<Kamping_Kaiser> what do you mean 'restart my old setup'?
<gotama> restart ubuntu 6.06.1
<gotama> I'm goin to use different partitions.
<Kamping_Kaiser> grub will let you dual boot when its installed on the hdd
<gotama> I've tried grub-install /dev/fd0 but seems that doesn't work.
<Soskel> I got suspended from my school for recommending they use edubuntu
<bddebian> Heya
<JordanC> Helo
<JordanC> Hello*
<LaserJock> Hi
#edubuntu 2008-09-22
<b-man> hi
<b-man> i need some help with ltsp-usb
<sbalneav> What are you having problems with?
<b-man> i didn"t work, so i tried the DebugLocalDev-tutorial
<b-man> on step 4 "ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add" i get authentication failes
<b-man> -s+d
<b-man> i tried google but found no proper solution
<b-man> i set it up on a test-server before and everything worked finde
<b-man> fine
<b-man> i've no idea why it won't work on the other server
<sbalneav> What versiopn of edubuntu are you using?
<b-man> i'm using debian :)
<b-man> lenny
<sbalneav> Well, this really isn't the right channel for that, vagrantc's the fellow you need in #ltsp
<sbalneav> he's done the debian port.
<b-man> k, thx
<b-man> bye
#edubuntu 2008-09-23
<nubae1> ogra: morning... have u heard of educamp? It's in Berlin second week of October
<nubae1> http://educamp2008.mixxt.de/networks/wiki/index.themenvorschlaege-ec08-2
<nubae> welcome Lns
<Lns> nubae: haha, hello
<nubae> boy has it been quiet on irc today...
<nubae> btw... the new ltsp manual is up on launchpad with some of your stuff in it :-)
<Lns> nubae: url me!
<Lns> it's been quiet all around for me this week so far..its eerie
<nubae> https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk
<nubae> you can bazaar it down or grab it directley I believe
<nubae> yeah... eerie indeed
 * Lns hasn't used bazaar before
<nubae> just do bzr branch lp:~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk
<nubae> install bzr first I guess
<Lns> oh ok
<nubae> let me know if u find any errors/fixes...
<Lns> nubae: np..on the phone
<Lns> nubae: thank you for including my docs, too =) i'll probably update the docs for the user/group section to use default Gnome users/groups admin after https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/259163 is fixed
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 259163 in gnome-system-tools "users-admin does not sort when Name/Login/Homedir field clicked" [Undecided,New]
<GJ> My computer lab is running Edubuntu 8.04. I have 19 thin clients that boot OK, but three of them the monitor shuts off just before the login screen appears. What might cause that?
<Lns> GJ: sounds like they're not getting the right sync vars from X
<Lns> GJ: might want to look at passing some X variables through lts.conf for those monitors based on the TCs' MAC addresses
<GJ> I looked for lts.conf but couldn't find it. Where is it located?
<GJ> I should say I found it (in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc), but when I checked what was in it, I saw that it shoud be in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/.
<Lns> GJ: it's located at /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf - if it's not there, you can create it
<Lns> GJ: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/customizing-thin-client.html (although the location in that link is out of date)
<GJ> That's the very page I was looking at. I found it confusing.
<GJ> And I'm not sure what to put in the file to get the video adapter to quit shutting off the monitor.
<Lns> GJ: looks like lts.conf vars "  X_HORZSYNC" and " X_VERTREFRESH" might be of help, if the sync is the issue - you'll want to verify by adding a root PW in the chroot (if you haven't already), log in on TTY1 on the thinclient, and looking at the xorg logs to see why it's failing.
<GJ> I remember reading about that root PW in chroot somewhere. Now I don't remember where I saw it. However, I can't see anything on the monitor after Edubuntu boots so how would I log on TTY1?
<Lns> GJ: CTRL+ALT+F1
<GJ> OK
<Deanr> Can anyone help me with my Ubuntu's slow WAN issue
<Deanr> ??
<Lns> Has anyone had the issue of users crashing in OpenOffice.org and not being able to re-launch, with no OOffice processes running and removing their ~/.openoffice2.org config dirs?
<GJ> I set a password for root in chroot. Then at the client I press Ctrl-Alt-F1 to bring up TTY1. Using root as the ltsp login and using the password I set, the result is Login Incorrect. What am I doing wrong?
<Lns> GJ: did you ltsp-update-image and reboot TC(s) ?
<GJ> I didn't know I had to do that!
<Lns> GJ: I would recommend studying http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/server.html
<Lns> GJ: Particularly http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/customizing-thin-client.html
<GJ> I did ltsp-update-image and rebooted TC. Now I get the message "Your account has expired; please contact your system administrator"
<Lns> GJ: blargh..i forget how to get past this...i know there's a way though.
<GJ> Ah! Found it. One of the FAQs says to unlock the account with passwd -u. I'll try that.
<GJ> I suppose I have to do ltsp-update-image again even though the FAQ doesn't say so.
<GJ> Yep! Unlocking the root account in chroot and then doing ltsp-update-image worked.
<GJ> Now that I can get in as root@ltsp, I'd like to look for what you mentioned earlier. Too bad, the school experienced a power failure between your earlier comments and the present, because the power failure resulted in the loss of your comments. How did you say I could discover what is making my monitor go to sleep?
#edubuntu 2008-09-24
<Lns> GJ: look in /var/log/Xorg.6.log (I think) - paste it on pastebot if you can, im only around for another 20min. but maybe someone else can help too
<Lns> !pastebot
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastebot
<Lns> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<Lns> GJ: ^^^
<sakhi_> hi, how do I fix this problem during system bootup? udevd-event[2876]: run_program: '/sbin/modprobe' abnormal exit
<sakhi_> from there the system does not continue booting up, i'm running fsck on it the moment.
<sakhi_> *at the moment
<sakhi_> hi people
<sakhi_> quick question
<sakhi_> I've downloaded Edubuntu edubuntu-8.04.1-addon-amd64.iso to be exact, I just want to confirm that this is the right OS for installation?
<Lns> Woooo! =) http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.24/
#edubuntu 2008-09-25
<RickZilla> Hi gang, on this page http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted I see the line "Besides the standard software available on the Edubuntu CD, you will also find a world of software in the Edubuntu Universe, an on-line repository containing more than 10GB of community contributed software." But I don't see a link to it anywhere.  Can somebody point me in the right direction?
<ogra> click on add/remove software in your menu :)
<RickZilla> But surely that doesn't include all of the "10G of community contributed software", does it?
<ogra> look at the top, you have a pulldown menu there .... beyond that you can use System->administration->Synaptic package manager to get the rest that not registered in add/remove
<RickZilla> ogra:  Thanks, I'll check that out...sounds like Synaptic goes out on the web and finds additional software for me
<ogra> add/remove does as well
<ogra> they are both similar apps but add/remove only shows everything that has a menu entry
<jc2it> I am looking for information on how LDM is configured
<ogra> through lts.conf
<jc2it> Where is the documentaion located?
<jc2it> for lts.conf
<ogra> in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client-core/examples
<jc2it> what does SCREEN_01=ldm do in conjunction with SCREEN_02=shell?
<ogra> SCREEN_01 is always ignored, its used by upstart as console
<ogra> SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm would be better
<ogra> that means there is an open login shell on tty2 and ldm on tty7 running
<ogra> (thats ltsp config, not ldm specific)
<jc2it> Is SCREEN_07 set that way as default?
<ogra> SCREEN_XX isnt set by default, but ldm usually runs on tty7, yes
<jc2it> How do I know if LDM is running?
<ogra> the SCREEN variables are used to override these defaults
<ogra> if ldm is running you have a graphical login screen
<jc2it> How do i determine the Screen that loads as default?
<ogra> thats all ldm does
<jc2it> so that SCREEN_07=ldm is the first screen the user sees
<ogra> ldm start on tty7 be default, thats how its implemented
<jc2it> ok
<ogra> right, ldm on tty7
<jc2it> great that is what I wanted to see. Now the thin client boots to an LDM screen on tty7 and by using Ctrl+Alt+F2 I can get a LTSP login to check/troubleshoot local stuff. Alos the PS -ale command verifies LDM is working.
<ogra> good
<jc2it> So why Can't I change the Screensaver in Ubuntu + LTSP 5? When I attempt it the Thin Client logs out the user and returns to a login screen
<ogra> sounds like a bug
<jc2it> Also I cannot change the Screen Effects
<ogra> thats a matter of the grphics card ... usual thin clients dont have the HW to support 3D effects
<jc2it> in System --> Preferences --> Appearence --> Visual effects
<jc2it> hmmm How do i find out
<jc2it> Do these effects then run on the thin client HW instead of the Server HW
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> they make use of the GL engine of your graphics card
<jc2it> How do I know if something ( OpenOffice, LDM) is running on the Thin Client or the Server?
<ogra> so the card needs to be set up to support 3D (out of the box only intel cards do that, since intel is the only company providing free 3D capable drivers)
<ogra> all apps run on the server
<ogra> only ldm runs on the client
<jc2it> So the visual effects because they run through LDM are ran on the client?
<ogra> they run through X
<jc2it> which is on the client
<ogra> right, the driver that drives the hardware sits on the client
<ogra> it gets the drawing commands via network from the server
<ogra> but to actually draw stuff the driver is used to drive the hardware
<ogra> so that part runs locally on the client ... while the app generating the commands runs on the server
<jc2it> Ok. So in my old server- thin client setup. I was running RH EL4 on the server. It used XDMCP to communicate between Thin Client and Server. the Thin clients booted into NeoLinux (Neoware's distro) and used GDM on the server to implement XDMCP.  I am pretty sure I was able to run like Open GL Screensavers and such on the Thin clients
<ogra> well, the crasher is surely a bug
<ogra> the effects require a card and driver that supports the composite extension
<jc2it> Where does LTSP generate  logs
<ogra> for X it uses /var/log/Xorg.6.log
<ogra> and for ldm the ldm.log in the same folder
<ogra> beyond that it forwards to the servers syslog
<jc2it> on the server or client
<ogra> the first two on the client, the latter on the server
<jc2it> so to enable effects I need to find out if my card supports the composite extension and I need a driver that allows this to work. If i was able to successfully determine both then where would I change the driver that loads. I am assuming it would be in the image area for LTSP but is this located in the chroot environment somewhere? under /opt/ltsp/i386/?????
#edubuntu 2008-09-26
<Marie_untu> i am trying to customise the edubuntu usplash screen
<Marie_untu> I already did it but
<Marie_untu> with the server the new usplash works fine but
<Marie_untu> the thin clients stop running in the usplash
<Marie_untu> anyone knows why? thanks
<Marie_untu> I am using a different kernel version in the clients, maybe that is the reason
<Marie_untu> but I cant update the kernel in the clients, after chroot to ltsp
<nubae> have u done ltsp-update-kernels?
<Marie_untu> yep
<Marie_untu> but do i need chroot???
<Marie_untu> from the server ltsp-update-kernels says "Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386"
<Marie_untu> but the kernel is not updated
<Marie_untu> in the clients i cant connect to the repositories "Could not resolve âgb.archive.ubuntu.comâ"
<Marie_untu> I am not behind a proxy
<nubae> Marie_untu: copy the sources.list from the server to the thin client
<Marie_untu> i did it
<Marie_untu> but it seems that the chroot has not internet connection, dont know why
<nubae> you are doing chroot /opt/ltsp/i386?
<Marie_untu> in the clients I have connection but in the chroot i havent
<Marie_untu> yep
<nubae> and then apt-get update
<Marie_untu> yes
<nubae> check to see whats in the sources.list in the thin client
<Marie_untu> the same as in the server
<nubae> from the server u can do apt-get update?
<Marie_untu> yes
<Marie_untu> from the server i can
<nubae> have u modified the chroot at all?
<Marie_untu> i checked and yes the repositories are the same in booth
<nubae> installed anyhting extra?
<Marie_untu> nope
<nubae> hmm.
<Marie_untu> i have search at google and the only thing i get is that if i am behind a proxy i should have some problems
<Marie_untu> but i am not behind a proxy
<nubae> try setting up resolv.conf in the thin client
<nubae> it shouldn't be necessary, but try
<Marie_untu> ok, how can i set up resolv.conf?
<nubae> copy it across from the server
<nubae> /etc/resolv.conf to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/resolv.conf
<Marie_untu> ok
<Marie_untu> koooool
<Marie_untu> now
<Marie_untu> thanks man
<nubae> enjoy
<Marie_untu> so to update the kernels i must use ltsp-update-kernels??
<Marie_untu> but from the server or from the chroot?
<Marie_untu> the chroot i guess
<nubae> do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade in client
<nubae> then ltsp-update-kernels
<nubae> then ltsp-update-image
<Marie_untu> ok
<Marie_untu> in client you mean in the chroot?
<nubae> yes
<Marie_untu> ok cheers mate
<Marie_untu> i ll try that, hope the usplash will work that way
<Marie_untu> i ll be around
<Marie_untu> av a nice day
<nubae> thanks, same
<Marie_untu> hi again nubae
<Marie_untu> ok i did the apt-get update and upgrade, everything ok
<Marie_untu> then from the server i did ltsp-update-kernel and it says "Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386"
<Marie_untu> but the kernel in the clients still the same 1.6.14-16
<Marie_untu> sorry 2.6.24-16
<Marie_untu> instead of 2.6.24-19
<Marie_untu> ok wait, i forgot ltsp-update-image
<Marie_untu> coz in the chroot "uname -a" shows the 2.6.24-19 version
<nubae> right ltsp-update-image is important :-)
<Marie_untu> ooops
<Marie_untu> not working
<nubae> whats the problem?
<Marie_untu> in the /opt/ltsp/i386/boot the same 2.6.24-16 kernel appears
<Marie_untu> not the -19
<nubae> what is in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386?
<Marie_untu> the 2.6.24-16 version, not the -19
<nubae> hmmm
<Marie_untu> a bit strange
<nubae> it is if update-kernels is telling u it modified it
<Marie_untu> nop
<Marie_untu> it just says "Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386"
<Marie_untu> but not any of "`/opt/ltsp/i386/boot/vmlinuz' -> `/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/vmlinuz' `/opt/ltsp/i386/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.15-20-386' -> `/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/vmlinuz-2.6.15-20-386' `/opt/ltsp/i386/boot/initrd.img' -> `/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/initrd.img' `/opt/ltsp/i386/boot/initrd.img-2.6.15-20-386' -> `/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/initrd.img-2.6.15-20-386' " or whatever
<Marie_untu> as the edubuntu cookbook says it may appear after ltsp-kernels-update
<nubae> wait, do ltsp-update-kernels now
<Marie_untu> very strange, because in the chroot uname says "Linux ubu-laptop 2.6.24-19-generic"
<nubae> then check the files in /var/lib/tftpboot
<Marie_untu> same, the -19 version doesnt appear there
<nubae> then update-kernels isn't working it seems
<Marie_untu> yep, it seems so
<Marie_untu> so what can i do, any idea?
<Marie_untu> why? :)
<nubae> manually copy /opt/ltsp/boot to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
<Marie_untu> to be honest i didnt make any change to the system at all
<Marie_untu> ok
<nubae> but u should really look at the underlying causes, it makes no sense
<Marie_untu> ok, thanks
<Marie_untu> but do you know any underlying cause that can be causing the problem??
<Marie_untu> or how can i debug it?
<nubae> well I would take a look at the ltsp-update-kernels script and see whats failing
<Marie_untu> ok wait, i remember now,
<Marie_untu> when i changed the usplash i manually update the initramfs
<Marie_untu> and the i copied the kernel to the /var/lib/tftpboot
<Marie_untu> it could be that the reason?
<nubae> yep
<Marie_untu> do you know what can i do to solve it?
<nubae> u dont need to manually do initramfs iirc, ltsp-update-kernels should take care of that (maybe...)
<Marie_untu> ok ok, thanks
<nubae> u definetly dont need to copy it across though
<Marie_untu> so that cause the problem
<nubae> so that probably messed it uÃ¼
<nubae> up
<nubae> permissions and such
<Marie_untu> ok, i write it down that :)
<Marie_untu> so now, how can i restore it?
<nubae> recreate the chroot with build-ltsp-client
<nubae> or maybe just delete /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
<nubae> and then do ltsp-update-kernels
<Marie_untu> ok I ll try that
<Marie_untu> it is gonna channge any of my clients configuration or users?
<nubae> if u have a lts.conf file yes
<Marie_untu> nop i havent
<Marie_untu> the only special thing i have are the user accounts, that i guess they will still the same after that
<Marie_untu> isnt it
<nubae> yeah
<Marie_untu> anyway i ll do a back up just in case
<Marie_untu> thanks veeeeery much :)
<Marie_untu> ok, ï»¿delete /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 and then ltsp-update-kernels doens work, same results
<Marie_untu> build-ltsp-client says "command not found"
<nubae> ltsp-build-client
<nubae> u have to delete /opt/ltsp/i386 though first, or back it up
<Marie_untu> ok :)
<Marie_untu> wait, I have a backup before I change the initrdimg
<Marie_untu> should i restore it by removing the /opt/ltsp/i386 and copy the backed up folder?
<Marie_untu> or it is better to build the client again?
<Marie_untu> never mind, dont answer, silly question
<Marie_untu> :)
<Marie_untu> thanks veeery much, again
<Marie_untu> cya aroundÃ§
<Marie_untu> ok
<Marie_untu> nubae
<Marie_untu> after built the ltsp client
<Marie_untu> the problem still there
<Marie_untu> same as before
<Marie_untu> using kernel -16 not -19
<Marie_untu> ltsp-update-kernels same results
<Marie_untu> the thing is I changed the usplash on the server, so I update-initramfs in the server so the usplash can be updated
<nubae> so do that in the client too
<nubae> and then, without copying the image manually... do ltsp-update-keys
<Marie_untu> ok, but the thing the server is using -19 and the clients still with the -16
<Marie_untu> im a bit fustrated now :)
<nubae> u need to go into chroot and apt-get update and apt-get upgrade
<Marie_untu> i did it
<Marie_untu> client updated and upgraded
<Marie_untu> but then ltsp-update-kernels not working
<Marie_untu> doenst change the kernel
<Marie_untu> so i should copy the kernel manually
<Marie_untu> but i just want to resolve the ltsp-update-kernel problem
<Marie_untu> which kernel version are you using in the clients???
<Marie_untu> maybe it doesnt allow to upgrade to the -19??!!
<Marie_untu> should I manually copy the /boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-19-generic to /opt/ltsp/i386/boot and toï»¿/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386????
<Marie_untu> heyyy, anyone knows any related problem with ltsp-update-kernels and the update-initramfs????
<Marie_untu> aptitude search usplash
<Marie_untu> ooops
<Marie_untu> this is a hell :)
<Marie_untu> why when i change the usplash to the clients it doesnt boot???
<Marie_untu> why? :0
<Marie_untu> is anybody out there??
<marketia> heya all
<sbalneav> Morning all
<stgraber> ogra: I filed bug 273147 and bug 274803
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273147 in ltspfs "Usb stick (flash drive) does not pop up on the Gnome desktop" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273147
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274803 in ltsp "Allow shutdown to be started as root on thin clients (localapps)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274803
<stgraber> well, I updated the first and filed the second
<stgraber> morning sbalneav
<Marie_untu> I have a problem updating the kernels on the clients
<Marie_untu> the server is running the 2.6.24-19-generic and the clients the 2.6.24-16-generic
<Marie_untu> I have already upgraded the clients in the chroot
<Marie_untu> when i execute the ltsp-update-kernels the clients' kernel is not updated, it still the -16-generic
<Marie_untu> the only thing I changed is the usplash in the server, and then i executed update-initramfs
<Marie_untu> any idea? it is a bug or a misconfiguration problem?
<Marie_untu> ok, next quest.
<Marie_untu> how can I change manually the kernel in the clients??
<Marie_untu> is anybody out there??
<sbalneav> Marie_untu: So, you've done an apt-get upgrade in the chroot?
<Marie_untu> yep
<Marie_untu> and its upgrade sucessfully
<sbalneav> so if you do a chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<Marie_untu> but then i do ltsp-update-kernels, and the kernels are not updated
<sbalneav> dpkg -l | grep linux-image, you see that the 2.6.24-19-generic's there?
<Marie_untu> ok i did dpkg but the -19-generic is not there
<sbalneav> ok, then it didn't get upgraded in the chroot.
<Marie_untu> so how can i upgrade the kernels
<Marie_untu> in the chroot i did apt-get upgrade 4 times or more
<sbalneav> What are you running, hardy?
<Marie_untu> yep
<Marie_untu> 8.04
<Marie_untu> as I said before ï»¿the only thing I changed is the usplash in the server, and then i executed update-initramfs
<sbalneav> Usually the hardy-updates apt line isn't included in the ltsp chroot's apt setup
<Marie_untu> maybe that have something to do with that
<sbalneav> Well, the usplash in the server doesn't have anything to do with the clients
<sbalneav> here's what I'd do.
<sbalneav> exit out of the chroot
<sbalneav> cp /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list.orig
<Marie_untu> ok i did that already
<sbalneav> cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list
<Marie_untu> sources.list is the same in both
<sbalneav> grep hardy-updates /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list
<Marie_untu> I even built the image again
<sbalneav> Do you get any lines showing up from the above grep statement?
<Marie_untu> yep
<Marie_untu> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates main restricted
<Marie_untu> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates main restricted
<Marie_untu> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates universe
<Marie_untu> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates universe
<Marie_untu> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates multiverse
<Marie_untu> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates multiverse
<Marie_untu> when i execute ltsp-update-kernels it says: "Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386" but the kernel still the same -16-generic
<sbalneav> well, that's because you've only got the -16 installed in the chroot.
<sbalneav> what happens if you do a dist-upgrade in the chroot?
<Marie_untu> "bash: dist-upgrade: command not found"
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get dist-upgrade
<sbalneav> I'm assuming you did the apt-get update first, right?
<Marie_untu> ok!
<Marie_untu> it seems the kernel is upgrading
<Marie_untu> but why it is not upgraded with the lstp-upgrade-kernels
<Marie_untu> it is maybe a bug???
<sbalneav> Well, ltsp-upgrade-kernels just copies the kernel in the chroot to the tftp area
<sbalneav> so, if you've got an older kernel in the chroot, that's all it's going to copy
<sbalneav> so, you have to get the chroot updated first, then you can do the ltsp-upgrade-kernels
<Marie_untu> heyyy
<sbalneav> as well, after the upgrade's done, you'll want to do the ltsp-update-image again.
<Marie_untu> but i upgraded the chroot firts
<Marie_untu> ok i can imaging
<sbalneav> well, you didn't, because you still had only a -16 in the chroot.
<Marie_untu> so this is why i ask here, because i apt-get updated the chroot around 10 times
<Marie_untu> so now if i want to change the usplash in the chroot
<sbalneav> But you didn't do a dist-upgrade
<Marie_untu> i just need to cp usplash-new.so to /ltsp/i386/usr/lib/usplash
<sbalneav> it didn't update until you did that.
<Marie_untu> yep i just dist-upgrade right now
<Marie_untu> hold down, the dist-upgrade takes the kernel from the server or from the repositorie???
<Marie_untu> ok, from the repositorie
<Marie_untu> so if I change the usplash now in the chroot and then I update the initramfs it should work
<Marie_untu> isnt it???
<Marie_untu> I have been with this usplash issue all day!!!! :0
<Marie_untu> heyy sbalneav
<Marie_untu> thanks very much :)
<jc2it> I have Ubuntu 8.04 + LTSP 5. It works for the most part. There are inconsistancies which appear to relate to a graphics card problem, although I am not convinced of that. One issue we have noticed is when the user on the thin client changes to a screen saver it returns that Thin client to the login screen. Someone here suggested it was a bug. I would like to track it down. Yesterday I got my Thinclients set up so I can get a root shell in the
<jc2it> Thin client by pressing Ctrl+Atl+F2
<jc2it> Where should I look to see what is actually happening when it returns the user to the LDM login screen
<sbalneav> Sorry, was afk for a bit
<sbalneav> jc2it: probably is a bug, but quite frankly, you don't want any other screen saver other than "Black screen" on a thin client anyway
<sbalneav> And I know that one works :)
<jc2it> Yes this is true the screen does blank. The reason I was focusing on the screen saver is because I think it might lead to some of the other issues that are harder to describe
<sbalneav> Sometimes, opengl instructions don't go remotely across the network, resulting in X server resets, which will kick you back to a login prompt.
<jc2it> so does this mean that the x.org log would track such an event?
<jc2it> on the client
<jc2it> or server
<sbalneav> On the client, usually
<sbalneav> Sometimes you can also get an error in the users $HOME/.xsession-errors
<Marie_untu> how can I change the usplash screen on the clients, I have already the usplash-theme.so
<Marie_untu> I can change it sucessfully in the server, but I cant in the clients
<Marie_untu> any idea??
<Marie_untu> anybody out there???
<jc2it> in /home/<usr>/.xsession-errors
<jc2it> gnome-screensaver-preferences: Fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server 192.168.0.239:6.0.
<Marie_untu> anyone around knows how the clients' usplash works????
<Marie_untu> is anybody in here?? please at least say hi
<Marie_untu> or just say, nope no idea, go away :) or something similar
<nubae> Marie_untu: still the same problem?
<Marie_untu> heyyy
<Marie_untu> not really
<Marie_untu> the kernel is updated sucessfully
<nubae> what did u do to fix it?
<Marie_untu> now i cant change the usplash on the client
<Marie_untu> apt-get dist-upgrade in the chroot
<nubae> ah yes...
<stgraber> ogra: one more bug for you :) bug 274902
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274902 in ltsp "PULSE_SERVER not set for localapps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274902
<sbalneav> Back from lunch
<sbalneav> Marie_untu: You'd need to rebuild the initramfs in the chroot, then re-run ltsp-update-kernels
<stgraber> sbalneav: btw, I filed bug 274902 as an Ubuntu bug but I guess it's something that'd need to go upstream as xrexecd.sh is an upstream script.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274902 in ltsp "PULSE_SERVER not set for localapps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274902
#edubuntu 2008-09-27
<foka> Hello!  I am wondering how the /etc/X11/xorg.conf is generated in the LTSP client.  I notice that /etc/X11/xorg.conf does not exist, so it must be generated on the fly.  But where does it do that?  I'm using Edubuntu with LTSP 5.  Many thanks!
#edubuntu 2008-09-28
<RickZilla> Getting ready to install edubuntu on a machine...Just so I understand correctly, I install ubuntu first, then install edubuntu from an imaged disk?
<RickZilla> Successfully created an edubuntu machine!
<xbxb>  Why is it that the du command shows a greater total of bytes used by files than the windows explorer for the same files? Do folders have their own size (even when there are no files in them) in Linux?
<juliux> ogra: eveing, do you know anything more about ubucon? do you want to make talk or something else?
#edubuntu 2009-09-21
<Ahmuck_Sr> hi anybody
<HedgeMage> hola
<HedgeMage> How are you tonight, Ahmuck_Sr
<Ahmuck_Sr> a bit of a headache
<Ahmuck_Sr> kinda feeling foggy
<Ahmuck_Sr> and you ?
 * Ahmuck_Sr nudges HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> sorry about that :)
<HedgeMage> I was  dragged away for a nummy snack
 * Ahmuck_Sr wants a snack
<HedgeMage> hehe
<Ahmuck_Sr> so, how's the dvd coming along ?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<alkisg> For non-LTSP labs with new PCs with lots of hard space, would NFS or AFS be a better choice (along with LDAP of course), if we want the users to be able to sit in any workstation and work with their files?
<alkisg> (each labs has about 8-12 PCs)
<nubae|work> alkisg, try and let us know :-)
<alkisg> nubae|work: I'm searching for a way to organize non-ltsp labs... do you have any links that explain how you do things there?
<alkisg> E.g. I was thinking the standard NFS / LDAP combination, but like you, some labs here don't have reliable network
<alkisg> ...so I'm also thinking of developing scripts that rsync dirs at logon...
<sbalneav> I've never used AFS myself.
<alkisg> People at #openafs told me it's not really a good choice for home directories. So I guess I can scratch that....
<sbalneav> NFS has a laundry list of problems, but they're well known problems. :)
<sbalneav> Ah, did they say why?
<sbalneav> I use NFS form $HOME
<alkisg> Yes, it's mostly for many servers - not much benefit if you use it with one server,
<alkisg> and it can only expose 1 volume RW, and lots of others RO, so it won't be able to function as a distributed system between the clients PCs (that's how I had imagined it reading their wiki)
<alkisg> sbalneav: do you think NFS would be a reliable choice for small labs? Or should I try to make scripts that use sshfs or rsync?
<sbalneav> I have about 120 users running off of an NFS server here.
<sbalneav> It's definitely workable.
<sbalneav> 2 things you need to make NFS as pain-free as possible.
<sbalneav> 1) A kick-*ss IO subsystem on the server.  I.e. 6 disks RAID10 or better, Go SAS SCSI or better.  Don't cheap-out on this.
<sbalneav> 2) Gigabit interconnect for the servers.
<nubae|work> alkisg, we have a little nfs hack here that makes it much more reliable
<sbalneav> Oh?
<nubae|work> kind of a a local/server cache addition
<sbalneav> Do tell
<sbalneav> AAAAHHHHHHGH!
<sbalneav> http://radiocontempo.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/hrp_4c_6.jpg
<alkisg> sbalneav: each lab here has only 1 server and 8-12 clients. So I guess I don't really need (2)... but,
<sbalneav> Japan terrifys me yer again.
<ogra> AFS is great but enforces you to have at least three reliable nodes constantly online
<sbalneav> yet again
<nubae|work> basically just synching based on cron or when the user wants
<alkisg> suppose I use NFS and LDAP. And the server crashes. Is there *any* way for the clients to work even with *guest* users?
<sbalneav> Sure
<nubae|work> I would just use a fatclient ltsp setup then
<sbalneav> Just don't put guest users on the NFS share.
<nubae|work> with ldap
<alkisg> So LDAP and /etc/passwd users can both be used simultaneously? And I just need to put the guest users in /etc/passwd with their homes in /home.local?
<sbalneav> Yup
<sbalneav> nsswitch.conf handles that.
<alkisg> Nice!!!
<nubae|work> yeah, with pam tweaking
<sbalneav> You can have both local (/etc/passwd + local home) and remote (LDAP + NFS $HOME)
<nubae|work> one before the other or the other before the one
<sbalneav> Not much, and it's not difficult.
<nubae|work> :-)
<alkisg> nubae|work: unfortunately, not all labs have gigabit switches. E.g. this year I'm in a lab with core 2 duo / 2 Gb RAM / 400 Gb hd, with a *10 mbps hub* !!!
<alkisg> ...so I'd like a non-fat client, non-ltsp choice...
<nubae|work> well, its not really ltsp anymore
<nubae|work> its more like netbooting
<alkisg> No, I'm talking about local ubuntu installations
<nubae|work> and booting is fine... it takes it little by little
<nubae|work> works fine even over wireless
<nubae|work> yes I know
<nubae|work> netbooting and installing it then locally
<nubae|work> or how were u thinking of cloning before hand?=
<alkisg> I just tar'ed the first installation, burned it in a DVD, and untar'ed it... nothing over the network
<nubae|work> thats fine, but when u have larger deployments....
<nubae|work> if u need to keep burning disks for every little change
<alkisg> Sure, I'm *only* looking for a solution for 8-12 PC labs...
<nubae|work> ur're gonna find it a pain
<nubae|work> ah ok
<alkisg> I'll be updating the PCs seperately, not by cloning them again
<nubae|work> I had understood 8-12 pcs per lab
<alkisg> Yes, e.g. 100 such labs
<nubae|work> well clonezilla does a good job too
<alkisg> But each one of them will be maintained by a different teacher
<nubae|work> well, then definetly look at a solution that involves a netboot initial install... so the the user has a choice on what to install at startup over pxe
<nubae|work> if u have that luxury of course
<nubae|work> disks break, scratch, etc..
<alkisg> nubae|work: with 10 mbps hubs? That would take weeks...
<nubae|work> at least... with 100 labs, I would not even consider dvds as an insallation mechanism
<nubae|work> nah...
<nubae|work> we do it here even with wireless
<nubae|work> it doesnt take weeks, especially not on 8.-12 machines ;-)
<alkisg> 10 mbps => 1 Mb/sec => 4000 minutes for cloning a 4 Gb installation
<alkisg> for *one* pc
<ogra> thats a lot of coffee breaks :)
<nubae|work> all I can tell u is practically... it doesnt take that long
<alkisg> nubae|work: how do you update/upgrade your clients?
<nubae|work> net
<alkisg> Cloning, or just apt-get update/upgrade etc?
<nubae|work> mostly packaged
<nubae|work> not cloning
<nubae|work> that would indeed be unviable I think
<nubae|work> needs to happen in bits
<nubae|work> but perhaps a usb stick approach, nand, would be best
<nubae|work> but nand has life issues
<Ahmuck_Sr> is there Ubuntu for older people?
<mhall119|work> regular Ubuntu doesn't work?
<Guest8694> Hello, I am having a problem with SCIM that I haven't been able to find help on
<Guest8694> I can only use it with Text Editor
<Guest8694> It should work with all GTK apps I believe
<Guest8694> I was here yesterday, also asked on Ubuntu, and Ubuntu Japan but didn't get anywhere
<Guest8694> I hope this sounds familiar to somebody
#edubuntu 2009-09-22
<nubae|work> we are looking for a way to add the exit (logout options) button to the top panel via gconf... but cannot seem to find that option anywhere... can someone guide me as to where/how to do that (has to be done on a large scale, so can't do it via right click, etc)?
<blue-frog> nubae|work: .gconf/apps/panel
<nubae|work> blue-frog, got any more info for me... tried various things but without any results
<LaserJock> anybody around?
<alkisg> Hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> anybody had a chance to do any more DVD testing?
<LaserJock> alkisg: hi!
 * alkisg hides... :D
<alkisg> (super slow 2 mbit dsl here...)
<LaserJock> 2mbit isn't that bad, just slow for a 3.5GB DVD
<Ahmuck_Sr> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/22/linuxcon_2009_joe_brockmeier/
#edubuntu 2009-09-23
<zerothis> I'm about to head off to trade school to learn to make videogames (or not). I'm determined to remain committed to Libre Software. Does anybody have any advice for me? Does anybody know about Full Sail University?
<zerothis> Does Canonical have any ties (at all) to Full Sail?
<alkisg> In a desktop ubuntu installation, I'd like to prohibit the students from using audio devices. The audio group was deprecated in favour of HAL, which was deprecated in favour of devicekit... so how would I do that?
<LaserJock> has anybody tried installing LTSP from the Edubuntu DVD?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: hmm, I just booted on up
<highvoltage> LaserJock: oh nm me, I just thought it was weird that it isn't an install option from gfxboot, but that's normal for a casper install
<highvoltage> LaserJock: seems like the cdrom uri is commented out by default, so when I apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone, it fetched it from a mirror
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it could be that I commented the cdrom line out and forgot about it, but I don't think so
<LaserJock> highvoltage: did you have an internet connection during install?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think so
<stgraber> LTSP won't boot, I'll upload a fix for that later today
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I think the CD lines are commented out if you have internet during install
<LaserJock> hmm
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, that makes sense then.
<LaserJock> what I'm mostly concerned about is that we release a DVD with *no* way of installing LTSP for it
<highvoltage> LaserJock: what are you concerned about? what would block ltsp from being installable?
<LaserJock> well, if we don't have the menu options, etc.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it would be cool if LTSP could actually ship on the DVD
<highvoltage> LaserJock: getting it a menu option is a big deal. I think ogra said (and he can clarify) that LTSP for a gui install system will be a big deal
<ogra> dont you have the choice to do an alternate install with the DVD ?
<ogra> it should surely work in alternate mode
<highvoltage> ogra: preciously, you could press F4 and choose "Install LTSP server"
<highvoltage> ogra: I don't see that, would it be in the actually alternate installer now?
<ogra> well, that would have to enforce alternate
<ogra> afaik the DVD always had a choice if you want to do a live install or an alternate one
<highvoltage> s/preciously/previously
<highvoltage> ogra: yes there is an option for "Install Edubuntu in text mode", but no "Install LTSP" on gfxboot menu
<ogra> see if you get the F4 option if you move to the "text mode" option#
<ogra> might be dependent
<highvoltage> ogra: I thought so too, but it doesn't show it there either
<highvoltage> ogra: what option does it pass to the cmdline if selected?
<highvoltage> ogra: I just want to check if it installs LTSP if I pass it manually
<ogra> it selects a special preseed file iirs
<ogra> cjwatson should know
<highvoltage> hmm, looking at /preseed on the cdrom there's just cli.seed  cloud.seed  edubuntu.seed  ubuntu-server-minimal.seed  ubuntu-server-minimalvm.seed  ubuntu-server.seed  workstation.seed
<ogra> there should be an ltsp.seed
<highvoltage> ogra: what's the process for getting it on there? could I just ask cjwatson?
<ogra> i think so
<highvoltage> I pinged him anyway.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: thanks
 * LaserJock was afk talking to Air Force people
<LaserJock> the LTSP option was what I was meaning
<LaserJock> what I think we should have for karmic is, standalone educational desktop = LiveFS/ubiquity and LTSP = alternate/text mode
<LaserJock> but have them both available on the DVD
<LaserJock> the problem is, I believe that means we're essentially shipping the ubuntu desktop twice
<LaserJock> once in the squashfs, and then again as .debs for the ltsp client builder
<voodoor> I've got my buntu box authenticating against our w2k3 server with likewise- dead easy that part - but now I'm struggling to get network share home folders to mount via pam. Anyone here successfully done this?
<highvolt1ge> LaserJock: if we shipped a pre-built LTSP environment, we could potentially do away with the alternate system by getting some hooks in ubiquity
<voodoor> a simple, verbose guide would be great
<LaserJock> highvolt1ge: yeah, ultimately that would be the way to go
<LaserJock> highvolt1ge: even if we had a separate "install an LTSP system" button on the Live session desktop
<voodoor> I want to get ubuntu out of the server room and into the classrooms but I need this to work but can't find a guidd for this purpose that works or goes into enough detail
<highvoltage> LaserJock: hmm, excellent idea. I should copy and paste it in a spec :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yes, it seems now the wiki has been broken up into individual team wikis :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that seems to make sense
<LaserJock> for as many teams, etc. as we have it does
#edubuntu 2009-09-24
<LaserJock> evening everybody
<alkisg> LaserJock: in the gui/ltsp mail, are you reffering to the desktop or the alternate cd?
<alkisg> (so, casper or d-i ?)
<LaserJock> alkisg: casper
<alkisg> LaserJock: ok, I just send a mail with some thoughts about it
<LaserJock> if we can I'd like to go all Live and not have the d-i part at all
<alkisg> I sent a mail with a way to go live *and* have live ltsp with no DVD space cost
<LaserJock> what if we have a package (.deb) that holds the chroot?
<alkisg> Scripting that is easy; but I don't know how easy it will be to actually embed it in the dvd building process
<alkisg> Did the mail arrive yet?
<LaserJock> so you'd be stuck with a same-arch chroot, but that's sort of a small limitation I'd think
<LaserJock> yep
<alkisg> No need for a chroot .deb, that would be huge...
<Ahmuck_Sr> after karamic, can we focus on a foundation of solid apps
<alkisg> You can regenerate it in 1 minute with ltsp-update-image
<LaserJock> alkisg: how so?
<Ahmuck_Sr> alkisg: only if you have ltsp
<LaserJock> Ahmuck_Sr: if we get the foundation to build them on, yeah :-)
<alkisg> Ah, sorry, you said chroot and not image
<Ahmuck_Sr> if instead your doing ldap & nfs, then it's different
<Ahmuck_Sr> LaserJock: we do
<LaserJock> Ahmuck_Sr: oh really?
<Ahmuck_Sr> start with the installer and identify different ways edubuntu would be installed
<Ahmuck_Sr> ltsp or ldap + nfs or ...
<LaserJock> I'm not sure we have the present installer figured out though
<Ahmuck_Sr> btw, imho, a gui installer is not needed yet
<Ahmuck_Sr> most people coming in are tripping over ltsp installs
<Ahmuck_Sr> and or ldap + nfs
<Ahmuck_Sr> what's not figured out about the present installer
<alkisg> LaserJock: but if the chroot was in a .deb, wouldn't that .deb "own" those files? How would we update them?
<alkisg> LaserJock: Due to squashfs removing duplicates, I don't think that having /opt/ltsp/<arch> on the DVD takes more that a few MB of space...
<LaserJock> Ahmuck_Sr: well, currently I don't think you can install LTSP from the DVD
<Ahmuck_Sr> ah, that is a problem
<LaserJock> alkisg: how does the removing of duplicates work?
<alkisg> Automatically
<LaserJock> well, but I mean, what are we duplicating?
<alkisg> E.g. /opt/ltsp/i386/bin/* files are duplicates of /bin/* files
<alkisg> <chroot>/usr is more or less a duplicate of /usr, and so on
<alkisg> (subset of course)
<LaserJock> I see
<LaserJock> does that work via hashes or something?
<alkisg> I don't know how squashfs detects duplicates, but yes, I imagine that it uses hashes
<alkisg> So I think that if you built a dvd without /opt/ltsp/i386, and then another with the chroot in it, the difference wouldn't be more than e.g. 30 Mb...
<LaserJock> well, that'd be cool
<LaserJock> so then the question is how to get it on there
<alkisg> LaserJock: but I have no clue about the dvd building process. How would the chroot be embedded in the dvd?
<alkisg> (I can make the necessary scripts for live ltsp, no problem there - it's the packaging that worries me)
<LaserJock> well, I guess you could run the ltsp chroot build script run from the postinst of a package
<LaserJock> it might cause the build process to take significantly longer
<LaserJock> but it would have a local mirror I believe
<LaserJock> so maybe not so long
<alkisg> But what if ltsp-build-client wants to ask the user something?
<alkisg> E.g. with the alternate cd, the user is notified if he doesn't have 2 nics...
<alkisg> (with a debconf dialog, which he needs to close with [OK], not just with a message)
<alkisg> ....bah sorry that's not build client
<alkisg> ...that's the installer part
<alkisg> OK, so that might actually work! :)
<LaserJock> I doubt we can get any of this for Karmic
<LaserJock> so there's a little time to think about a good implementation
<alkisg> I understand. It would be nice to have for Lucid, though.
<alkisg> I'm willing to do the "ltsp live" script... the packaging should better be done by someone else with more experience :)
<LaserJock> well, I wonder if that's all that's needed
<alkisg> Is removing ltsp-server automatically for those that don't want ltsp a problem?
<LaserJock> well, we'd have to figure out a way to do it
<LaserJock> but it should be feasible
<LaserJock> we would need lots and lots of testing
<LaserJock> I'm not sure that we can make a "ltsp live" with as much flexibility as the Alternate CD gives now
<alkisg> Sorry, I didn't understand that. What flexibility does the alternate cd offer?
<LaserJock> well, because it can ask questions
<LaserJock> and builds on the server itself
<alkisg> I don't think it asks any questions while building the chroot...
<LaserJock> a "ltsp live" would be built on the DVD builder machine and just copy over the contents
<alkisg> it just pops an error message if one doesn't have 2 nics
<LaserJock> right, but there's an amount of "behind the scenes" stuff that may cause interesting bugs
<alkisg> I'll choose to see that from the positive side: this way, if the edubuntu build fails, we'll know that there's a problem with the ltsp-build process and fix it before shipping edubuntu :D
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well, it at least seems feasible to do
<LaserJock> but I think it's going to take some people getting into some of the guts of ubiquity and the DVD build process
<LaserJock> thankfully the Ubuntu Installer team is really nice and helpful
<alkisg> Yeah, that's the part that frightens me :(
<alkisg> I'll help as much as I can; and hope that we can make this work. Gotta leave for school... Thanks for everything, LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> alkisg: thanks for the all the input and help (past and future)
<LaserJock> time for bed
<LaserJock> 'night all
<alkisg1> highvolt1ge: ping ?
<highvolt1ge> alkisg: pong
<alkisg> Hi man - I just answered with a mail
<highvolt1ge> just read it
<alkisg> I also thought about your idea, and it would even be better *if* we were allowed to modify ssh_config to not-check the host...
<alkisg> ...and if we didn't mind about the extra dvd space
<highvolt1ge> the problem with that is that ubiquity can't selectively install stuff. so it would copy accross all the ltsp chroots and then have to remove them again if a user doesn't want LTSP, making the installation very slow
<alkisg> Can't we just rm -rf /opt/ltsp before ubuquity moves on? (if the user didn't select to install ltsp, that is...)
<alkisg> It won't be owned by any package...
<highvolt1ge> I think ubiquity ignores the tmpfs related changes on the disc
<alkisg> OK, let's talk about your idea:
<alkisg> If we're allowed to modify /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_config and put "StrictHostKeyChecking no" there,
<alkisg> *and* keep a backup of the original file,
<alkisg> then we'd be able to use the chroot in a live system (with a dynamic ip),
<alkisg> and on a postinst script we would restore the original file on the final installation
<highvolt1ge> alkisg: I think that could be done. we could have a script on the desktop that's called something like "run live LTSP server" or something that could set that up
<alkisg> No no that needs to be done before the dvd build process
<highvolt1ge> alkisg: we probably don't even have to restore the file since those changes will be ignored
<highvolt1ge> alkisg: why so?
<alkisg> Ahh... (idea)
<alkisg> We could make an exception for that in the ltsp init scripts, and bind-mount a modified file on top of it
<alkisg> highvolt1ge: (answer to the previous question) well, we would have to extract the chroot from the image, modify the file, and then regenerate the chroot
<alkisg> That would need lots of time and lots of RAM; it wouldn't be possible on a live system
<alkisg> ****regenerate the image
<alkisg> Bah my english doesn't help in me making sense :(
<alkisg> highvolt1ge: ok, I think there's a nice solution for that problem.
<alkisg> There's an "SSH_OPTIONS" variable in lts.conf which now is broken
<alkisg> We could fix it for 10.04 and use it in lts.conf for the live system
<highvolt1ge> alkisg: indeed.
<alkisg> I think that's a good approach. So, no ssh problems. So yup, I prefer your idea - I don't mind the extra size :)
<highvolt1ge> alkisg: I'm not even sure if my suggestion is viable, it's just the safest way I could think of. we'll have to check with the installer team, etc and make sure that it's all fine
<alkisg> OK. I don't think I can help with the installer or the packaging, but I'm more than willing to help with the "live" part - i.e. autodetecting network settings and using dnsmasq-base.
<alkisg> (and also fixing SSH_OPTIONS)
<nubae|work> hi... if a program already has a translated version in launchpad, how does one use this translation?
<alkisg> nubae|work: depends
<alkisg> If you just want the .mo file, you download it and put it in /usr/...locale
<alkisg> if you want it properly updated, it's another (big) story...
<alkisg> Which program is that? And which language?
<nubae|work> webcontentcontrol
<nubae|work> and its for Spanish :-)
<nubae|work> u think, downloading the .mo and putting it in locale will work?
<alkisg> Yeah sure. But :Uses Launchpad for:                   Answers, Blueprints, Bug Tracking, Code, and Translations.
<nubae|work> https://launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol
<alkisg> That should be done automatically, unless the translation only happened recently
<nubae|work> I guess they dont automatically integrate translation stuff
<nubae|work> well, it didnt
<alkisg> https://translations.launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol/trunk/+pots/webcontentcontrol/es/+export
<nubae|work> translation seems fully finished, but when I start the program with local=es, get just Spanish
<nubae|work> ok, so its necessary to export the language files then?
<alkisg> Are you involved in the development there?
<nubae|work> no
<alkisg> The packager should take care of that... the users shouldn't have to download anything
<nubae|work> but we need a local solution for webcontent filtering, and this seems to be the best one available...
<nubae|work> it basically installs tinyproxy, firehol and dansguardian with a frontend
<nubae|work> perfect for installing on netbooks, so far
<alkisg> Is the mo file installed in /usr/share/locale-langpack/es/LC_MESSAGES/ ?
<nubae|work> alkisg, nope...
<alkisg> nubae|work: try to put it there and see if it works (it should)
<nubae|work> ok
<Balsaq> anyone in here running one of the edubuntu on an apple computer?
<Balsaq> edu,xu, ubu...any of them
<nubae|work> hmmm, its in there, but doesnt work
<nubae|work> perhaps its named wrongly?
<nubae|work> yeah, that doesnt work either...
<nubae|work> so I have it in its folder, and tried to run using locale=es webcontentcontrol, but comes in English
<alkisg> Try with: LANG=es_ES.UTF-8 webcontentcontrol or something similar
<alkisg> nubae|work: to check if LANG=xxx actually works, try: LANG=es_ES.UTF-8 ls not_existing_file
<alkisg> It should reply in spanish, if it doesn't, then that's not the code for your language
<nubae|work> yeah, that works
<nubae|work> but doesnt work for webcontentcontrol
<alkisg> So something's wrong with the app
<nubae|work> translation I guess hasnt been properly integrated
<nubae|work> thing is coded in gambas, u'd love it ;-)
<Balsaq> well iwasnt going to buy it until ispoke to someone who has experience with that type of computer
<alkisg> nubae|work: hey there's a vast difference between a delphi programmer and a vb programmer :P :D
<nubae|work> yeah I guess, well now I'm gonna have to touch this mess, as  no one here admits to having used VB or gambas
<Balsaq> the folks on the apple channel think ubuntun for apple (called powerpc) is not a good match....glad i checked
<Balsaq> seemd to think not much research is being done on it and is kind os a dead issue to some degree...at least on the older stuff iwas interested in
<Balsaq> ty
<nubae|work> Balsaq, ubuntu should run fine on powerpc
<nubae|work> though it hasn't been touched for a while
<Balsaq> i would have thought so, am dying to buy an old snowball computer...the apple g4
<Balsaq> (nubae0 when you say touched i take it you mean the people who create and improve the software havent benn working on it (nebie here...like just born)
<Balsaq> newbie*
<Balsaq> the letter are almost comletely worn off this computer so i make errors typing
<Balsaq> i am reading about puppy linux, mention running it on apple stuff, mentions osx
<nubae|work> have u looked at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ?
<nubae|work> and yes, thats what I mean above...
<Balsaq> thank you nubae
<Balsaq> awesome link
<Balsaq> not quite sure if those snoball destops are oldschoolmac or newschool mac, would guess newschool being they are about 2002 vintage
<Balsaq> prooly try one with xubuntu\
<Balsaq> nubae/on the flip side if all the linux engineers aren't working on powerpc it prolly not going to be as nice of an experience as this ubuntu has been on my old dell ( 2days experience here!)
<alkisg_work> apt-cacher vs apt-proxy vs approx vs ..., which one should I prefer? Did anyone use any of these? :)
<alkisg_work> Hmmmm with apt-cacher-ng I don't need to modify my sources.list ?
 * ogra uses approx
<alkisg_work> Thanks, ogra... Heh some people are using squid!! I do have squid installed, maybe I'll give that a shot...
<ogra> apache is also a good proxy :)
<alkisg_work> ogra, does approx allow me to keep my sources.list unmodified?
<ogra> i dont use it that way :) i think you need to the proxy settings in the apt config
<ogra> *to set
<alkisg_work> Nice! Gotta run, bye all
<sbalneav> Ugh. Morning all
 * sbalneav has been sick
<alkisg> Hi sbalneav! We missed you :)
 * sbalneav sniffles
<sbalneav> due to the cold, not nostalgia
#edubuntu 2009-09-25
<nubae|work> hi alkisg_work
<nubae|work> did u ever decide whether u were going to get teachers to use linux-for-education.org?
<alkisg_work> Hey nubae|work, what's up?
<alkisg_work> We had a small talk with some of them, and some of them said that they preferred to use the locally provided facilities... :-/
<alkisg_work> ...even if they're not as good as life
<alkisg_work> It may need much time to get them to appreciate it :(
<nubae|work> shame... they understand they will be full admins themeselves, and having a central place like this will allow many more users to appreciate their work?
<nubae|work> there was an email to the edubuntu-users list about canonical wanting to get involved with moodle instances too
<alkisg> Some teachers are asking on how to delete a user home dir (the user account is already removed with users-admin). I'm thinking to advice them not to do "sudo rm -rf /home/username" because, well, they may press "enter" by accident when they have written half of it (i.e. sudo rm -rf /  - and if they'd done sudo before, it won't even ask for a password).
<alkisg> So I'm thinking to advice them to use `sudo nautilus`. Any better way?
<alkisg> (we're talking about teachers, not sys admins...)
<ogra> better provide them a script with some safety
<ogra> if they accidentially forget they run nauÃ¶tilus with sudo way worse things can happen than your rm -rf / :)
<ogra> your script could run zenity to aks for the username, run "gksu rm -rf /home/username" and sudo -k at the end
<alkisg> ogra, "way worse things can happen than your rm -rf / " ??? Like?!!!
<ogra> accidentially moving /etc or files in there ... stuff thats taking you weeks to find the cause for :)
<ogra> constant point n click access is a lot worse than 10min of sudo acess to the filesystem :)
 * alkisg always wanted to make a script to put the files to the trash instead of permanately deleting them... guess the time is now :)
<Pupuuuuu> what can edit vifdeos on puppy?
<ace_suares> meeting!
<ace_suares> release meeting is taking long and edubuntu meeting will follow ehen they are done or be cancellled after 18:00 utc
<ogra> 18:00 UTC is still 1h togo
<ace_suares> the meeting starts at 17:00 utc normally
<ace_suares> i proposed to cancel the meeting if release is taking till 18;00
<ogra> there is only foundations and MOTU left on the agenda
<ogra> foundationd is up, MOTU is usually short
<ace_suares> kk so the meting statrs after they done OR if it's 18:00 the meeting is cancelled. is my prop.
<ogra> you should discuss to get an edubuntu spot in the release meeting btw ... now that there is an edubuntu release again
<ogra> (though that requires LaserJock or highvoltage input i guess)
<ogra> probably a bit later for karmic, but you guys should make sure that edubuntu issues are on the radar of the release time in lucid at least
<ogra> s/time/team/
<ogra> s/later/late/
<ace_suares> yeah I guess the EC needs to speak up about that.
<ace_suares> havent heard from scotty in a while! what's happening?
<ogra> he was ill
<ace_suares> oh hope he is better now
<ogra> he said so
<LaserJock> can we just do the meeting here?
<ogra> LaserJock, should be done in 10min
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> MOTU is done already
<ace_suares> hee LaserJock!
<LaserJock> what's actually discussed in the release meeting?
<LaserJock> I've never seen an agenda for them
<ogra> milestoned features and bugs
<ogra> blockers etc
<LaserJock> oh ...
<LaserJock> so that'd mean we'd need some of those :-)
<ogra> agenda is only sent to participating teamleads
<ogra> so make sure you get a spot in the meeting and you'll get an agenda ;)
<Lns_> hi all
<ogra> well, if you want to have freeze exceptions for example the r-m is the platform to bring them up
<Lns_> can't we have a meeting here if the meeting channel is taken up?
<LaserJock> ogra: yeah, it's something we should be doing
<ace_suares> Lns the meeting is almost done
<LaserJock> ogra: well, that's that :-)
<ogra> heh
<alkisg> Meeting? :(
<ace_suares> yeah in ununtu-meeting
<alkisg> (thanks I got there...)
<LaserJock> stgraber: so the .iso link points to the addon CD
<LaserJock> stgraber: so for instance, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20090917/karmic-addon-i386.iso
<LaserJock> stgraber: that should be http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20090917/karmic-dvd-i386.iso
<stgraber> right, so if I revive our good old Edubuntu DVD product and disable the Addon, that should fix it
<LaserJock> stgraber: also the general title is Edubuntu (Ubuntu educational add-on), I think that should just be Edubuntu
<LaserJock> as we only have 1 .iso
<stgraber> LaserJock: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu
<stgraber> LaserJock: are the testcases ok or should we remove/add some ?
<LaserJock> WinFOSS can go
<LaserJock> should we rename Install (debian-installer) to Install (debian-installer LTSP)?
<stgraber> LaserJock: sounds good
<LaserJock> stgraber: the "additional instruction" links just get redirected to testcases.qa.u.c
<stgraber> yeah, it's broken, fixing it now
<stgraber> LaserJock: should be good now
<stgraber> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu.com/278133/
<LaserJock> stgraber: I guess that should work for now
<LaserJock> stgraber: I'm a little concerned about what happens if the Edubuntu DVD diverges from the Ubuntu DVD
<LaserJock> but I guess for Karmic at least it shouldn't be an issue
<stgraber> currently it's all generic testcases, as soon as we have our own on testcases.qa.ubuntu.com, I can update the links in the DB
<LaserJock> stgraber: excellent, thanks a ton
<LaserJock> that should make testing a lot easier
<LaserJock> it's always frustrating to send people to the iso tracker and have it all outdated :-)
<stgraber> np
<Ahmuck_Sr> alkisg: am i looking for QoS on the throttling side of the router ?
<Ahmuck_Sr> you mentioned that i could speed up my ltsp network by stopping the router and managed switches from "throttling" the traffic
<alkisg> Ahmuck_Sr: I'm not really an expert on throttling... maybe you mistake me with someone else on this
<alkisg> I've looked at bonding & flow control, but not throttling
<Ahmuck_Sr> ah, yes, flow control
 * Ahmuck_Sr got the right person, but the wrong name
<alkisg> Heh :)
<alkisg> OK. That is an issue if your clients are 100 mbps, your switch 1 gigabit, and your server gigabit
<alkisg> Is that the case?
<Ahmuck_Sr> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
<Ahmuck_Sr> yes, that is the case
<Ahmuck_Sr> with the exception of the wireless to wireless bridge
<Ahmuck_Sr> that's all 100 mbps
<alkisg> Behind the wireless bridge there's only your office client, right?
<Ahmuck_Sr> er, well, client --> wireless bridge --> wireless router --> ltsp server
<Ahmuck_Sr> actually i'm wanting to speed the clients up in the computer lab
<alkisg> All the other clients are on the gigabit switch, correct?
<Ahmuck_Sr> by doing that i may be able to speed the office link up
<Ahmuck_Sr> yes
<alkisg> Your office connects to the server by another NIC
<alkisg> So it won't affect it
<alkisg> It'll only affect the pc lab clients
<Ahmuck_Sr> ok
<Ahmuck_Sr> the inet --> wireless router --> ltsp server connection is 100 mbps
<alkisg> Do I remember correctly that your switch is managed?
<Ahmuck_Sr> from the ltsp server it goes out on a gigabyte switch
<Ahmuck_Sr> it's a managed switch
<alkisg> Does it have a flow control setting?
<Ahmuck_Sr> let me check the docs
<Ahmuck_Sr> ah, found it
<Ahmuck_Sr> they call it "storm control"
<Ahmuck_Sr> with a multicast or broadcast rate limit
<Ahmuck_Sr> that's the only thing i need to change?
<alkisg> If that is the same as flow control, yes
<alkisg> You need to turn it off
<alkisg> So that it doesn't send "pause" packets to the server
<Ahmuck_Sr> ok, do i need to do anything server side on the gigabyte nic there?
<alkisg> No, if your switch supports turning off flow control, you're done
<alkisg> You can test it by running e.g. netperf from all clients to test if you actually get gigabit speeds
#edubuntu 2009-09-26
<unkmar> So, can you folks help me with edubuntu server?
<unkmar> It was recently installed but did not have 2 nics at the time.
<unkmar> I was wondering what I would need to run to configure it.
<unkmar> Or rather, Reconfigure.
<unkmar> cool, ubottu is here too. Hi there bot :)
<sbalneav> What is it you're trying to do?
<sbalneav> Add a second nic?
<unkmar> well, I have a second nic installed now.  Wanting to do a few things.
<unkmar> Use it as a NAT system or router.  For the purpose of having PXE bootable clients using the system.
<sbalneav> So, what exactly do you need help with?
<unkmar> The though is, A client boots PXE and then runs software from on the server.
<sbalneav> You're wanting to set up LTSP?
<unkmar> My friend wants to actually run software ON the server from a client with a remote GUI.
<unkmar> Yeah.  He said Yes.
<unkmar> So, I guess I need to know how to configure the LTSP that is currently installed.
<sbalneav> Well, you'll need to make sure the nic you want LTSP clients to run off of is on 192.168.0.254
<sbalneav> After that, the ubuntu LTSP portal should help you
<sbalneav> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<sbalneav> As well, the upstream documentation may be useful to you as well:
<sbalneav> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
<unkmar> ok.
<unkmar> Thank you.
<sbalneav> NP
<unkmar> we broke stuff. so now we are reinstalling.  oh well.
<unkmar> it had been too long since he last installed.  didn't really remember what he had and had not done.  Easier to start over than to guess at it.
<balsaq> any teachers from the eastern usa in here
#edubuntu 2009-09-27
<Balsaq> !wireless
<ubottu> Wireless documentation, including how-to guides and troubleshooting information, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
<Balsaq> !cable
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about cable
<Balsaq> !road runner
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about road runner
<Balsaq> !broadband
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about broadband
<Balsaq> !dos
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about dos
<Balsaq> !10/100/1000
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about 10/100/1000
<Balsaq> !lan
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about lan
<Balsaq> !ethernet
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ethernet
<HedgeMage> Balsaq: Is there something I can help you with?
 * HedgeMage gives the teacher look
<Balsaq> well i am trying to learn
<HedgeMage> Why don't you try asking a question, instead of abusing the bot?
<Balsaq> seems like you all remain silent and prefer that newbies try to figure it ouy if possible
<Balsaq> ok
<HedgeMage> We're a small room, there isn't always someone active.  You just have to be patient.
<HedgeMage> Now, preferably sans sarcasm, what are you trying to find out?
<Balsaq> i came in here to try the bot thing because no one ever talks here from what i've seen
<Balsaq> just trying too see what the bot can do for me
<HedgeMage> did you know that you can play with the bot in pm so it doesn't flood the channel if that's all you're doing?
<Balsaq> no but yeah that mekes sence i guess i am done with it
<HedgeMage> np
<HedgeMage> if you need a human, I'll be around a few more minutes before I go work out.
<Balsaq> you are the 1st person who ever spoke when i passed thru here
<Balsaq> i am on my 3rd day with ubuntu and ordered xubuntu and puppy also
<HedgeMage> Keep in mind that there are 23 of us, not counting you and the two bots.  We're all volunteers, we all have jobs/school/families/etc to worry about, and we all live in different time zones.
<HedgeMage> actually, 22 of us if you also eliminate duplicates
<Balsaq> yes we woboth work full time also our time zone is eastern usa
<Balsaq> i work 4-mid my wife is the teacher
 * HedgeMage ndos
<HedgeMage> *nods
<HedgeMage> We are happy to help, it's just not very motivating when people are so impatient and snarky.
<Balsaq> i hope i can help soon somehow
<HedgeMage> There are plenty of places this project could use more volunteers. :)
<Balsaq> like where...you mean tech support on here?
<HedgeMage> Sure.  IRC support (where we are now), documentation, packaging, development, testing, etc.
<HedgeMage> Laserjock, ogra, and some of the others here can give you a better run-down than I.  I mostly lurk these days due to a profound lack of free time.
<Balsaq> if i am qualified to do any of that this early in the game i will start right away
<HedgeMage> :D
<HedgeMage> Yay :)
<HedgeMage> Usually folks here are more active on weekdays.  Like you, I'm in the US so it is very late here.  The only reason I'm still online is insomnia.
<HedgeMage> Speaking of which, I'm heading off to work out in the hope that it will help me sleep
<HedgeMage> See you later. :)
<Balsaq> i'm hooked i do this after work now all the time until it knocks me out....see you!
<HedgeMage> :D
<HedgeMage> bye
<Balsaq> teach me all of it...
<Balsaq> : ^ )
<Balsaq> :V)
<alkisg> For debugging purposes, I need to run an xterm *while still on gdm* and before the user logs in. Where would I put the run-xterm.sh file?
 * alkisg just found out about clusterssh, and fell in love with it :)
<alkisg> LaserJock: why are ltsp bugs part of edubuntu bugs?
<LaserJock> because Edubuntu cares
<LaserJock> we could not include them, but I think it'd be sort of a disservice to our users
<alkisg> Well... do we include e.g. bind9 bugs?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> because bind9 is taken care of by other people I believe
<alkisg> Hmmm ok you know better
<alkisg> In any case I think I can help with those bugs
<LaserJock> alkisg: for LTSP there is 1 developer who takes care of it, stgraber
<LaserJock> alkisg: if there was an Ubuntu LTSP team, etc. I'd probably not include it
<alkisg> Yeah I know, and ogra helps sometimes even though it's not part of his job now
<alkisg> Also sbalneav has helped in some of them
<LaserJock> so for now I think Edubuntu is still the entry point for a lot of LTSP work
<alkisg> OK. I'll read up a little on how to handle the bug reports
<LaserJock> and since LTSP is a major portion of our user base I think it's in our interest to make sure it's in good shape ;-)
<LaserJock> alkisg: awesome, thanks
<alkisg> ...cause I know my way around ltsp, but sometimes I don't know how to respond properly ...
<alkisg> k
<LaserJock> alkisg: yeah, learning the policies and "culture" around bug triage helps and isn't too big of a hassle usually
<stgraber> I'm pretty sure we have tons of fixed bug on LP for LTSP and probably even more with the next upload
<alkisg> I'll first start marking the "fix commited/released" ones.
<LaserJock> stgraber: yeah
<LaserJock> I think there are a lot of such bugs
<LaserJock> I want to get all the clutter cleared out
<LaserJock> so then the bug list will be more meaningful
<dgroos> Hi All
<dgroos> I just restarted my server (remotely), then accessed it via NXclient
<dgroos> and then started firefox and can't get anywhere--'server not found'.
<dgroos> so went to terminal, typed 'ping google.com'
<dgroos> and got reply, 'unknown host google.com'
<dgroos> obviously there is some internet connection happening as I'm connecting to the server via the internet.
<dgroos> I'm at a loss--can anyone give me kind of a high-level approach to troubleshooting this?
<dgroos> For all I know there may be some issue at the school or district IT infrastructure that's blocking things so don't want to spend too much time on this at the moment if it is *their* problem.
<dgroos> I used zenmap (gui for nmap) and it talks about an issue with dns.  Is dns part of my local server w/ltsp or is it just part of the server running the network to which my server is a part?
<dgroos> still trying to see if this is a problem I need to deal with or if someone might be working on the school network at this time (I hope)
<alkisg> dgroos: try cat /etc/resolv.conf to see if your dns is ok
<dgroos> alkisg: thanks, I'll try...
<dgroos> it replied: "# Generated by NtworkManager"
<dgroos> ?
<alkisg> You should have a "nameserver 10.160.31.1" entry there
<alkisg> So that's your problem. What's your dns server address?
<dgroos> sorry--that would be a computer outside of mine, somewhere on the wan?
<alkisg> Yes, e.g. the router, or a server somewhere
<dgroos> ran ifconfig and ... helpful info?
<dgroos> OK can I get that how?
<alkisg> Does your server have 2 ethernet cards?
<dgroos> I'm sure I put that on a page when I got NAT working
<dgroos> yes
<alkisg> And the second nat, does it use dhcp?
<alkisg> Or does it have a static ip?
<alkisg> *the second ONE
<dgroos> ah... someone just set up a squid server and also just gave me a static ip--I'd had a dynamic one.
<alkisg> Right. Tell him to also give you the dns server
<dgroos> the second one--the one connected to wan or my lan
<alkisg> (or, you could try a command to find it out, if the *external* dhcp server is still enabled...)
<dgroos> I just looked at /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf and it tells me the DNS_SERVER is that what I need?
<alkisg> No. Try this: sudo /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n eth0
<alkisg> (or eth1)
<alkisg> (whatever your external nic is named)
<dgroos> OK!  it has good info AND it also lists the old, dynamic address from before the switch to static.
<alkisg> You need to get the dns0 from there and put it to /etc/resolv.conf
<alkisg> # Generated by NetworkManager
<alkisg> nameserver 10.160.31.1
<alkisg> Something like that ^^^
<dgroos> will do :)
<dgroos> then reboot server?
<alkisg> No
<alkisg> It should work right away..
<dgroos> and indeed it does :D
<dgroos> and you indeed, are awesome!
<dgroos> thanks!
<alkisg> Yw :)
<dgroos> Now I can continue my lesson plan with students using the internet for tomorrow.
<dgroos> oh yeah, and breath, too.
<alkisg> Heh :D
<ccc1> how would I, from the commandline, change a user so that they can administer the system. I cannot login graphically to any of my admin accounts, only my user accounts are working
<LaserJock> ccc1: I think they need to be in the admin group, I believe you can use usermod to change the groups a user belongs to
<alkisg> Yup, usermod -a -G admin username
<ccc1> "unable to lock password file". I guess I have to log out of the user to change them
<alkisg> sudo
<alkisg> sudo usermod -a -G admin username
 * ccc1 thinks comments have been helpful but must logout to implement them
<ccc1> hmm, didn't work
<alkisg> ccc1: with `id username` you can see the groups of a user
<alkisg> The user needs to logoff for the new groups to take effect
<ccc1> yes, I logged off, added the user to admin, logged in. it still won't let me admin. I'm going to try creating a new user with admin
<alkisg> ccc1: is that with some kind of remote connection, e.g. with ltsp?
<ccc1> no its local. Its running under virtualbox, but that should be a proplem right?
<alkisg> Nope
<alkisg> What are you trying to admin?
<ccc1> my admin accounts crash back to the gdm login. my user accounts to not. so i'm logging into my admin account to create or modify a user that has admin, so I have a graphical administrator account
<ccc1> I'm loging in to admin account via terminal
<ccc1> anywho, I've created a new admin user and am going to attempt to login to desktop there now
<alkisg> ccc1: login with your user account and try ssh -X
<alkisg> This way you'll be able to run programs as the admin user, even if you login as the normal user
<ccc1> oh nice, so anybody can ssh into my system and do that? I don't think so, this is linux not OS X
<alkisg> ccc1: they'd need an account to use ssh
<alkisg> I'm just saying that if you: (1) login as user1, (2) run: ssh -X -l admin localhost, (3) run e.g. users-admin from inside that ssh, you'll be able to add users because you ran it as an admin
<ccc1> tried ssh -X, "Could not resolve hostname". I'm not familiar with ssh, I have not setup ssh on my system. is it there by defult in ubuntu/edu
<ccc1> "Connection refused"
<alkisg> Ah, sorry, I thought you had that installed. It's easy to install if you want to, just a single line. Anyway, try what you were trying before.
 * ccc1 logs out
<ccc1> didn't work. in fact mu user account now just leaded by desktop/pinboard and *nothing* else. no panels, alt+F2 doesn't work. I can't even copy+paste from the keyboard. I don't know how but Windows is even messing up virtual systems because no flavor of ubuntu has ever given me these problems under virtualization using OS X or linux. I'm just gonna tell my boss to ditch windows for linux or I quit
<ccc1> thank you for your help in this room. every is alot nicer and helpful here than in #ubuntu
 * ccc1 goes to talks to his boss
<ccc1> whoo! i'm fired! thank God! well, I won't be visiting from this computer again. see y'all later
<ace_suares> that was funny!
#edubuntu 2010-09-27
<alkisg> Good morning
<highvoltage> alkisg: good morning!
<mhall119> moring
<highvoltage> moring mhall119
#edubuntu 2010-09-28
<Shankar> Hi
<annkas> Where can I find documentation on server installation and configuration for edubuntu?
<annkas> hmm
<annkas> I can see that I have asked questions on this channel before - doesn't seem like there is a lot of activity here
#edubuntu 2010-09-29
<jappiecr1> anybody know where I can find a good teacher manual in Spanish; that is for teachers to get an idea how and with what they can start developing lessons...
<alkisg> Good morning
<kataq> what is the difference between #ubuntu and #edubuntu?
<kataq>  guess not
<ofirk> hi :)
<ofirk> is there someone here that can help me with a LTSP issue?
<mhall119> morning
<highvoltage> good morning everyone
<coz_> hey guys...something odd has been ocurring since this past weeks updates... I am now getting a whole list of packages that want to be removed... and all of them are default install packages....
<coz_> just clean installed and removed the usual applications I normally remove with edubuntu...but only since this weeks updates has this problem been ocurring
<coz_> here is what the system wants to remove    http://pastebin.com/EuQwvpS5
<coz_> if I do that ^^   then the least of the issues become system font rendering
<jappiecr> I am setting up a compu lab for a school in Costa Rica. I (kind of) have the server up and running, that is my thin clients boot and can I can log in using different usernames on different thin clients and all works beautiful!
<jappiecr> Now the challanges that I run in to: 1) The Thin Client Manager does not show my thin clients.. 2) I am just a hobbiest that wants to make a little difference but I am not a Teacher. I am really missing a manual for day to day use that I can show the teachers (for Spanish speaking educators with very, very limited educational recources and training!)
<jappiecr> When I read about Edubuntu this is what i understood from it: A teacher can create a list of students, assign students to groups (classes/levels) and customize the programs available to those groups. So in day to day use, the teacher would sit the students down behind the screens. Take control of the screens and show the group todays lesson and that give control back to the thin clients so the students can do their work. Meanwhle, the teacher can mon
<jappiecr> itor from her screen  what thye students are doing and if needed help out or gain control....Am I right so far or did I misunderstood?
<jappiecr> So far I have been trying configure everything using the 3 different (?!?!) programs; Profile manager, profile editor and lockdown editor....
<coz_> jappiecr,   what I do know is that you will have to stick around for answers to a question...generally  most people here are doing things and check into the channel at different intervals
<jappiecr> Ok, so I followed the manual and have somewhat set it. Made  profile for Students and teachers (+ one for adminsitrator), assigned different user to to those groups in Profile Manager and here I am...NO CLUE where to go from here!!
<jappiecr> coz: no problem I can wait:-)
<coz_> jappiecr, :)
<jappiecr> ay, I am teacher....what do I do? How do I setup my class?, control thin clients? etc, etc...
<coz_> jappiecr,  the last time I asked a question it took over an hour ..and I just asked one about 1/2 hour ago :)   I would sit back and grade papers or listen to music while you wait  :)
<jappiecr> all is good! We do what we can when we can.....I hope there are more people out there walking into the same challanges!
<coz_> jappiecr,   my guess is that there are... and most likely a simple solution
<jappiecr> Coz: I hope so! But even with the GCompris suite I setup the adm. section and say that clients need to login but when I log in from a TC as a student, there is no login required...as you said; most likely a simple solution if you know what, where and how:-)
<jappiecr> Patience is a beautiful thing!
<coz_> jappiecr,  yes :)  in the mean time maybe read here ?  http://www.tuxradar.com/content/ltsp-thin-clients-made-easy
<jappiecr> coz_: I have 2 NIC's eth0= for INternet and eth1 = for TC network. In my "Network Connections" it only shows 1 connection (eth0) and this gets an auto IP. The ot
<coz_> mmm
<coz_> jappiecr,   not sure what the issue is... I would again stick around and see what the guys say here :)
<jappiecr> eth1 I configured to a 10.0.30. network range and all seems to be working. That is my TC's boot and I get to do everything on them. The only thng is that my Network Icon in the upper Panel dissapeard and I cannot seem to get it back...
<coz_> jappiecr,  make sure the notification area applet is there
<coz_> jappiecr,  sorry that is the wrong applet... ah I forget what you have to do to get that back  since it is not under the applets menu
<coz_> brb  have to pick someone up
<jappiecr> coz_: CUL
<jappiecr> what would be the Classroom Control package for teachers to use in Edubuntu 10.04 ltsp setup?
<mhall119> iTalc I think
<stgraber> Meeting time !
<Lns> woooOOOOOOO
<Lns> =)
<dinda> quick questio while we wait for meeting stuff:  can the all the "K" applications be used in regular Ubuntu?  or do you need to be running Kubuntu?
<coz_> dinda,  you mean like any of the kde applications in ubuntu with gnome?
<dinda> coz_: yes, exactly
<mhall119> dinda: yes
<coz_> dinda,  sure but if you install them onto gnome/ubuntu  they will pull down all of the required kde libraries
<mhall119> you'll just need the QT and possible KDE libs
<dinda> ok, was wondering how that worked
<mhall119> like magic ;)
<coz_> dinda,  in al honesty.. I switched to edubuntu  because I believe there is better performance than if I installed the necessary kde libraries onto an existing ubuntu...could be my imagination:)
 * dinda likes magic :)
<dinda> coz_: interesting, trying to see what a recommended solution would be for a school or teacher who wants those apps
<coz_> dinda,   you dont want edubuntu?
<mhall119> dinda: they'll even run on Xfce
<coz_> dinda,  whichever version of ubuntu you install  ...then installing any kde application...as I said...will pull down all the necessary kde dependencies required
<coz_> dinda,  so just sudo apt-get install nameofapplication and go  :)
<coz_> hey guys let me bring this up again   ...something odd has been ocurring since this past weeks updates... I am now getting a whole list of packages that want to be removed... and all of them are default install packages....
<coz_> just clean installed and removed the usual applications I normally remove with edubuntu...but only since this weeks updates has this problem been ocurring
<coz_> here is what the system wants to remove    http://pastebin.com/EuQwvpS5
<mhall119> coz_: the team is having a meeting in #ubuntu-meeting right now, so it may take a bit
<coz_> mhall119,   no problem at all... I can post this later
<mhall119> dinda: ping
#edubuntu 2010-09-30
<mhall119> highvoltage: What do you think about adding a journal app to the lineup?  Lots of my teacher friends have their students write weekly journals.
<mhall119> dinda: I emailed you a response to your document
<highvoltage> mhall119: there's a journal app?
<mhall119> there are multiple
<mhall119> journal/diary that kind of thing
<mhall119> I've used RedNotebook
<mhall119> also Almanah
<israfil> hello
<jelkner> israfil, hello
<israfil> i installed KDevelop 4.0.0 and 4.0.1 (or was ist 4.0.2?) on Ubuntu Lucid Lynx but i think the debugger is not working already. Am i right? What program could i use instead?
<jelkner> israfil, i've never used kdevelop
<jelkner> sorry i can't be more helpful
<seidos> i'm trying to get italc working.  i get this error:  http://imagebin.org/116427
<seidos> not sure where to go from there
<seidos> tried google and the forums, couldn't find anything useful
<seidos> i'm using ubuntu 9.10
<highvoltage> pleia2: heh, just saw the then-and-now photos on your site. I can clearly see that it's you on the "then" photo :)
<pleia2> hehe
<jappiecr> My profile mananger won't import profiles anymore. Was working until today had to make  changes in user and groups deleted some user account, made new accounts (not sure if this has anything to do with it!). Did the whole process of making profiles and they are saved under /etc/sabayon/profiles but when I import them, it will open the file, ask me for profile name and when I press enter nothing happens. No even error message! anybody ideas?
<jappiecr> bbl
#edubuntu 2010-10-01
<highvoltage> jappiecr: hmm... not that familiar with sabayon to be honest. hang around I'll see if I can find Scott on jabber who might be able to help...
<jappiecr> highvoltage, thanks that would be great!
<highvoltage> jappiecr: I haven't seen him on jabber tonight :(
<jappiecr> highvoltage: ok...maybe tomorrow, he!? Thanks!
<jappiecr> bbl
<jappiecr> highvoltage, if you se jabber can u also tell him that the profile editor is extremely slow and while my initial profiles were saved, now it appears that they do now get updated. I treid a restart but still slow and changes are not saved (but not warning is given about this)...thanx in advance!
<jappiecr> My profile and menu editors seems not be working very smoothly. I know they come standard in Edubuntu so Is it save to remove them and reinstall them_
<docente> Hi, anyone knowns something about Glib-WARNING error on thin clients with LTSP?
<jappiecr> docente, Does it say "unknow user id"? happens to me from time to time. Suposingly is not so important...
<docente> hi, jappiercr. yes, but to me is really annoying because thin clients boot enters  in a loop and the client cant open the session.
<docente> I'd been reading and maybe is caused by plymouth. I deactivated it on server but i don't  know how to make it on clients.
<jappiecr> Docente, I am not an expert, but I ran into same problems. With me it had to do with equipent; I started testing with old Dell laptops and drove me crazy. When I tried  booting my new laptop PXE and use it as thin clients, everything worked perfect. Turned out that for the older equipment I had to configure the lts.conf file
<jappiecr>  to specify color depth and resolution and this solved it for me.
<docente> yes this Dell are kicking my head.
<jappiecr> docente, check this out: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/customizing-thin-client.html It telles how to customize thin clients per MAC address
<jappiecr> If you have a newer laptop or pc, try to boot this one first and see if you still have the same problem. My guess is that it might work just fine on newer machines. If this is the case, it is just a matter of trying some configurations in the lts.conf file...
<docente> what video parameters worked to you?
<jappiecr> docente, I had to lower color dept to 8 and screen resolution to 800x600. to first to get it to work. I am workking with very old and mostly damaged equipment, so I have an old laptops where screens don;t work, so I have attach monitors, or keyboards don't work, etc so it is quit a bit of work.
<jappiecr> docente, I just remember that it also had  something to do with decativating Compis, but do a google for this. This was the magic trick, actually! So try this first
<jappiecr> docente, I have to go now. I suggest to ask in #ltsp also. This is really the place to ask about thin clients and such...good luck!
<docente> I don't have visual efects activated, so I will take note of yours suggestions to make this boxes works the crazy thing is that with 8.04 worked fine but we are probing a massive deployment of 10.04 on many public schools in my country. those Dells are reallly annoying
<docente> thanks jappiecr
<docente> educar
<TheProf> Hello.  I hope everyone is well. Question - can Edubuntu be installed but not by using a DVD or USB?  Our server only has a CD drive and the BIOS does not allow USB booting.  Any recommendations - I'm very exciting to test out the new version of Edubuntu
<alkisg>  You can use the plop boot manager to boot from a usb stick on machines where the bios doesn't allow usb booting.
<alkisg> Also, you can install edubuntu via the local network, if another pc there boots the edubuntu live cd and shares it
<alkisg> Finally, you can install the ubuntu cd and install "edubuntu-desktop" afterwards from the net
<alkisg> Out of curiosity, how much RAM does your server have?
<TheProf> alkisg: Hello. The feature I am most keen about is the LTSP integration.  If I use your third recommendation with the Ubuntu CD and install edubuntu-desktop, would that correctly install the LTSP features.
<TheProf> the server has 3 or 4 GB ram - haven't booted it up recently
<alkisg> Wow, and only a CD drive? I've never seen that combination... :)
<TheProf> yeah I know :)
<alkisg> No, you'd need to install ubuntu+ltsp from the alternate cd and install edubuntu-desktop afterwards
<TheProf> I was able to install the stock Ubuntu from the regular CD a version or so ago to test it and that worked.
<alkisg> I think your best route then is to use the plop boot manager and boot edubuntu from a usb stick.
<TheProf> Maybe the plop boot manager is a better option.
<TheProf> OK :)
<alkisg> If the server is recent enough, it's possible that it supports usb booting, and it just doesn't have an option for it on BIOS, you can then boot a usb stick directly from grub
<alkisg> E.g. get to a grub shell and run : root (hd1,0) and then chainloader +1
<TheProf> I spent some time looking at the details of the server (HP Proliant DL360 G3) and it doesn't seem to have USB booting as a feature
<alkisg> It doesn't matter, the grub trick might still work
<TheProf> ah - found the RAM - sorry it has 2 GB RAM, 2x2.28Ghz P4 Xeon processors.
<alkisg> Do you have grub installed on it?
<TheProf> I've got a full basic Ubuntu installation. I believe Grub is installed by default, no?
<alkisg> If so, get a grub shell, type: root (hd       and press tab twice. If the bios enables grub to "see" the usb stick, you can then boot from it
<alkisg> (you'll see it giving some autocompletion proposals, like "hd0 hd1" so hd1 is your stick)
<TheProf> And it would then just over-write itself during the bootup?
<alkisg> No, it won't write anything when the usb boots
<TheProf> sorry i meant during installation
<alkisg> If you install edubuntu afterwards, sure, it'll overwrite itself as usual
<TheProf> but by then it would be fine running off the usb stuck
<TheProf> OK I understand
<alkisg> But plop will also work, whichever seems easier to you...
<TheProf> That's great news.  Thanks so very much.  I'll give it a try. A related question - is the process of installing edubuntu on the USB destructive to the data on the stick?
<alkisg> (plop also loads some basic usb "drivers", so it usually works even on older computers)
<alkisg> If the usb stick is already format with vfat, then no, it doesn't delete the existing data
<alkisg> (unless you tell it to)
<TheProf> perfect
<TheProf> This is pretty awesome. Been using a Fedora-based LTSP for several years now, just looking to upgrade.
<TheProf> Do you recommend I wait the 9 days until the final release comes out or will the beta upgrade to that release when it is done?
<alkisg> Erm, not sure, I'll be using 10.04 for the next 2 years for my classrooms myself.
<alkisg> I like the LTS stability + 2 years upgrade path better
<TheProf> That does make sense yes
<alkisg> (even though Lucid isn't the most stable LTS release of them all... :D)
<TheProf> I'm not yet familiar with Ubuntu to know all the differences :)
<alkisg> How was the fedora+ltsp combination the last years? I think LTSP was a little unmaintained on fedora?
<TheProf> It was rock-solid, turn-key up til Fedora 10.  After that I believe the maintainer(s) got busy and were unable to follow-up, and we're now on Fedora 13 going into Fedora 14
<TheProf> I've been running the Fedora 10+LTSP way past it's EOL but at this point there are too many issues that I need to update it.  I believe some people took over the maintenance of it but it's not yet at the "pop in ISO and hit install" level it was so I thought to try this out.
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<alkisg> "...the background of the Edubuntu Ubiquity Slideshow happens to be #424242." hehe nice one highvoltage :)
<dgroos> What should I consider when I decide whether or not to copy the /etc/apt/ from my server to my chroot?  Or, can I consider nothing and just do it :)
<dgroos> !chroot
<ubottu> A chroot is used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit applications in a 64bit environment - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
<dgroos> That link didn't help either...
<alkisg> dgroos: just think of the programs you need installed to your chroot, then you'll know which sources you want there...
<dgroos> OK, so I now know which source. list and d.list.source files.  Do I just copy these files?  There are no other conf files or scripts or other kind of dependency in any of the other folders in the /etc/apt folder?
<alkisg> Don't copy the whole apt folder, there's no reason to do so
<alkisg> It has settings there that you don't want to blindly copy
<alkisg> Just copy sources.list  and/or sources.list.d
<dgroos> Thanks alkisg.
#edubuntu 2010-10-02
<eugenekorpan> hello everyone. small question. Where can I download drivers from for ubunte for matherboard?
<alkisg> Hi, for generic ubuntu questions try asking in #ubuntu
<eugenekorpan> thanks
#edubuntu 2010-10-03
<alkisg> highvoltage: the edubuntu-council mailing list is receiving all the bug reports, shouldn't edubuntu-bugsquad be receiving them instead?
#edubuntu 2011-09-27
<Valks> !ops
<ubottu> Help! ogra, highvoltage, mhz, JaneW, Burgundavia or Seveas
<alkisg> heh
<highvoltage> oash, will have to update that :)
<alkisg> dgroos1, Hyperbyte: does "epoptes" (something like janitor) sound better than "panoptes" (all-seeing)? :)
<alkisg> Or both of them suck? :D
<ogra_> well, how do you call a guy with a mop in a school ?
 * ogra_ would take that term fo rthe translation
<alkisg> ...cleaning lady? :D
<alkisg> We don't have guys with mops, we're an old-style society :D
<ogra_> nah, the guy that also changes the lightbulbs
<alkisg> Yeah, that's epoptes
<ogra_> and fixes the stuck sink etc
<alkisg> It's the same word in the army too, for the guy that gives guns or other stuff
<ogra_> well, then i would take that name :)
<ogra_> though the janitor is rather a program that removes bits instead of giving out bits
<ogra_> thats what google translate gives me btw: ÎµÏÎ¹ÏÏÎ¬ÏÎ·Ï
<ogra_> (no idea what it means :) )
<alkisg> It's a more used translation for janitor
<alkisg> Hyperbyte expressed the idea that "panoptes is a creature that lives 10 miles under the sea" and he's afraid of it
<alkisg> ...so we may have to change it, if he feels better with epoptes :D
<ogra_> heh
<alkisg> ogra_, will you make it to BTS?
<ogra_> not sure, still fiddling with my flights (and as usual i'm really late and the travel agent hates me)
<ogra_> but i had planned to
<alkisg> Hehe
<ogra_> matter of flights
 * alkisg wishes you make it :)
<ogra_> you will ?
<alkisg> Yup
<ogra_> awesome, then i have to
<alkisg> Booked all flights weeks ago
<alkisg> Cool!!!
<ogra_> (though more because of megan than because of you i must admit :) )
<alkisg> Hehe
<ogra_> you are a bit to male :)
<alkisg> Who is megan? Is she in irc?
<ogra_> and she's a cutie
<ogra_> she rtuns the seawall motel
<alkisg> Aaaah :)
<stgraber> :)
<ogra_> well, her parents actually
<alkisg> Maybe I'll arrive a week earlier then
<ogra_> its worth it :)
 * ogra_ stayed a few days extra last time
<alkisg> We have the UDS now, can't stay later
 * alkisg reboots into gnome, something about kde fonts hurting his eyes...
<ogra_> ah. you are at UDS too ?!?
<alkisg> Yup, got a sponshorship ;)
<alkisg> brb
<ogra_> wowie !!
<dgroos> alkisg: just saw the ping now--not effective the dgroos1 ping--it doesn't jump to get my attention :) dgroos is the one to ping.
<alkisg> hehe, in #ltsp it was fun, I talked to dgroos1, and dgroos answered, then I talked to dgroos and drgoos1 answered :D
#edubuntu 2011-09-28
<widewake> could anyone help me update java?
<stgraber> highvoltage: any chance you can do some tests on Edubuntu today/tomorrow morning? We enter finally freeze tomorrow at 21:00 UTC, so would be nice to do a last pass to see if we missed some things that are trivial to fix.
<stgraber> highvoltage: also, if you want to look with mgariepy on fixing these translations problem with kdeedu, the same deadline applies (I doubt we'll be able to get these fixes in post-final-freeze)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, I'll get some time with mgariepy
<stgraber> highvoltage: cool
<stgraber> highvoltage, mgariepy: I think the easiest would be to go an Edubuntu system, install a langpack for a language that has a pretty good coverage (spanish or portugese usually), then try everything in the menu :)
#edubuntu 2011-09-30
<highvoltage> stgraber: can you take the contact email about the weblive ID question? (from tbruff13)
<stgraber> highvoltage: yep
#edubuntu 2012-09-24
<bencer> stgraber: did u have the chance to try zentyal packages?
<stgraber> bencer: no
<bencer> would be cool to have some feedback
<bencer> stgraber: i was thinking about uploading final packages
<bencer> but now i need to request permission for any upload
<stgraber> well, zentyal landed way too late for us to be able to release edubuntu server, so I haven't been looking at it yet as I have higher priority stuff to sort out for 12.10, so don't block on me testing them as I'm not completely sure I'll be able to do that this cycle
<bencer> ok
<bencer> we will try to do it better for next release :-/
<stgraber> highvoltage: mind creating the blueprint for community-r-edubuntu? so we can already add the redisign of the blacklist? I don't want to forget about it
<highvoltage> yes, it would be a good time since there are a lot of ideas floating around that we shouldn't lose track of
<stgraber> if you do, can you at least give me a generic "cleanup the cdimage mess" and "implement a better package blacklist"?
<highvoltage> stgraber: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/edubuntu/+spec/community-r-edubuntu
<highvoltage> k
<highvoltage> I'll migrate our postponed items too at some point...
<stgraber> highvoltage: copy them instead of moving them though, otherwise it messes with the WI history for the current dev release
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> yeah that's the plan, by migrate I meant replacing "POSTPONED" with "TODO" after pasting :)
#edubuntu 2012-09-25
<tY> ty
<Guest64409> Hi everyone, setting up new intallation of edubuntu for a k-8 school.    Sorry, called called away will have to chat later.   sorry again ty
<stgraber> highvoltage: just got my first x2go session started from the new weblive server!
<highvoltage> yay!
<Luizcezar> hello friend, anyone can PXE boot the network card national semiconductor DP83815?
<Luizcezar> on thin clients genesis II
<Luizcezar> or just support etherboot
<stgraber> highvoltage: and session is now working with both NX and x2go!
<highvoltage> stgraber: cool!
#edubuntu 2012-09-27
<highvoltage> stgraber: ^^^ does that mean it's testing time?
<stgraber> highvoltage: nope, ready means it's ready to ship
<highvoltage> ah I see
<highvoltage> great, then :)
<stgraber> someone was apparently kind enough to test it for us :)
<highvoltage> I'm in a weird state where I don't have any emergencies or fires to put out, so I can actually pick what I should work on next!
<stgraber> nice
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah I see, yeah I trust that tester to do a good job :)
 * ogra_ thinks we all owe ballons a lot of beer in copenhagen
<stgraber> preparing the workitem list for 13.04 would be good (well, trying to remember of all the things we talked about and dump that in the blueprint or somehwere)
<highvoltage> ogra_: oh the tracker says it's graberator that tested them
<highvoltage> yeah I'll go through them today
<ogra_> is that a pseudonym for stgraber ?
<stgraber> highvoltage: well, I was referring to the upgrade ones that were tested by some unknown guy
<stgraber> highvoltage: but yeah, I tested the ISO images yesterday (the usual german+oem+ltsp+ltsp-live+gnome-fallback and a standard install in chinese)
<highvoltage> ogra_: at rlnx there's a tool with an easter egg where if you pass it an option --graberator (or something like that), then it shows an ascii art image of stgraber's head with red eyes
<ogra_> lol
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm surprised that they didn't implement that easter egg in lttng yet ;)
<highvoltage> yeah we need more graberator options everywhere
<stgraber> highvoltage: one of the new weblive servers is now online for testing
<highvoltage> stgraber: nice!
<stgraber> highvoltage: posted about the new weblive on g+, should get me a few testers to see how solid it's
<highvoltage> great.
<highvoltage> mgariepy, alkisg, stgraber: edubuntu-webcontact mails that need replies are under 10 for the first time in 2 years :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: yay, thanks!
<alkisg> highvoltage + 10 :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: can you test http://paste.ubuntu.com/1231205/ on Debian? requires python-x2go
<highvoltage> stgraber: when it asks me for username, should I go on the site and create one first or do I do it there in the cli?
<highvoltage> Session (ex. 'desktop' or valid executable): desktop
<highvoltage> Traceback (most recent call last):
<highvoltage>   File "test.py", line 283, in <module>
<highvoltage>     session, locale)
<highvoltage>   File "test.py", line 138, in create_user
<highvoltage>     raise WebLiveError("Invalid server: %s" % serverid)
<highvoltage> __main__.WebLiveError: 'Invalid server: '
<highvoltage> ah I thought that weblive-appserv03 was preconfigured, but I had to enter it
<highvoltage> stgraber: and I have a session!
<stgraber> highvoltage: yes?
<stgraber> nevermind, didn't parse properly :)
<stgraber> the python script bundles weblive.py so it can talk directly to the API and create the account
<stgraber> Currently running sessions:
<stgraber>  - instance-weblive-john: 10.0.3.80 (public port = 10080)
<stgraber>  - instance-weblive-stgraber: 10.0.3.167 (public port = 10167)
<stgraber>  - instance-weblive-jonathan: 10.0.3.43 (public port = 10043)
<stgraber>  - instance-weblive-test: 10.0.3.146 (public port = 10146)
<stgraber>  21:33:01 up 11 days, 21:03,  1 user,  load average: 0.17, 0.13, 0.14
<stgraber> reasonable
* highvoltage changed the topic of #edubuntu to: Edubuntu 12.04.1 is out! - http://www.edubuntu.org | When asking questions, hang around for a bit, we're not always at our computers :) | Try WebLive! http://edubuntu.org/weblive | Help out with bugs: http://tinyurl.com/EduBugs | LTSP questions? also try #ltsp | Welcome to the playground, have lots of fun and behave yourself!
<TheProf> Hello. I hope everyone is doing well.  I came across a strange problem with some users on Edubuntu 12.04.  When they log in, they just get a desktop - no menu, task bar, no icons, nothing.
<TheProf> They can log out by hitting ctrl+alt+delete and then they get a logout option.
<TheProf> How would I resolve that please?
<highvoltage> TheProf: is that with unity-3d as login session?
<TheProf> highvoltage: yes the default login session.
#edubuntu 2012-09-28
<highvoltage> stgraber: ^^^ didn't you once run across this issue as well?
<stgraber> yeah, it's a weird case where the fallback doesn't kick in
<stgraber> manually choosing 2d should do the trick for now
<highvoltage> TheProf: do you happen to know if it used to work with unity-3d or 2d before? you could choose unity 2d from the session manager to check
<TheProf> I did not try to change the session -- this was a clean installation of 12.04 and I didn't change the setting in lts.conf or from the login scren
<TheProf> screen.
<highvoltage> according to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/946484 that has been fixed, are all the updates installed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946484 in ltsp (Ubuntu) "Precise LTSP chooses 3D session but only 2D works" [Undecided,Fix released]
<stgraber> there are still a few weird cases where that fix may fail, I don't remember the bug number but I linked it to the beta2 release notes
<highvoltage> I wish we could've just black listed unity 3d completely somehow from ldm, it's not obvious at first to people what this problem is, I think many will just give up.
<highvoltage> TheProf: I suppose the best thing you can do currently is have an lts.conf file that contains:
<highvoltage> [default]
<highvoltage>    LDM_SESSION=âgnome-session --session=ubuntu-2dâ
<highvoltage> at least that will give you the 'right' unity on thin clients
<highvoltage> stgraber: do you think it's worth while release noting for the final 12.10 release that people may have to update their lts.conf files since unity 2d is going away?
<TheProf> highvoltage: thank you for the suggestion - I will do so.
<TheProf> Oops. Looks like I already had LDM_SESSION=âgnome-session --session=ubuntu-2dâ in my lts.conf
<TheProf> Specifically in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf
<highvoltage> and the lts.conf file contains a [default] section, right? (it doesn't work without it)
<stgraber> highvoltage: might be a god idea yeah
<TheProf> yes it is the first item under [default]
<stgraber> *good
<mikubuntu> ever since i added edubuntu packages to my system, i have to input my wireless password everytime i boot up -- is this a known issue?
<mikubuntu> ever since i added edubuntu packages to my system, i have to input my wireless password everytime i boot up -- is this a known issue?
<highvoltage> mikubuntu: have you changed your login password recently?
<mikubuntu> nope, and the same thing happened to a friend who did a new install of edubuntu ... mine i added the packages on top of ubuntu existing laptop
<mikubuntu> and it's not my 'login' password, but the pass key for the wireless network
<mikubuntu> the 10 digit key
<mikubuntu> does the same thing if theres a power outage, i have to put the key in again
<highvoltage> mikubuntu: the wifi password is stored in a keyring, which is typically unlocked by your login password, so there's a link.
<stgraber> highvoltage: no longer true
<highvoltage> mikubuntu: it's not a known issue, feel free to file a bug about it and add an edubuntu tag
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah ok
<stgraber> highvoltage: wireless passswords are stored system wide in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/
<mikubuntu> for some reason, it doesn't persist anywhere
<mikubuntu> is there a fast way to navigate to that file? or you just have to follow the path step by step?
<mikubuntu> out of curiosity
<alkisg> Hey, Ubuntu Gnome beta is out... maybe that will be a very good workaround to the "we're ignoring countries with multiple keyboard layouts" lightdm issues... and I guess it already has gnome-fallback preinstalled!
<highvoltage> alkisg: edubuntu also has fallback pre-installed. so the ubuntu gnome desktop is going to use gdm by default?
<alkisg> highvoltage: yes, afaik it won't even have lightdm installed
<alkisg> (lightdm is what breaks the keyboard layout for many countries, yet noone seems to care about it...)
<ty> hi everyone
<Guest67771> Last weekend I installed edubuntu 12.04 on a server and connected two Terminals.   The school would like to connect up to 18 terminals to the server,  They have limited about of space i was looking at the asus e system which has a intel duel core atom processor and comes with a vesa mount (mout on back of monitor).  Will this support a k-8 school for several years?  The network is new and so cabline is cat 6 switch is a 24 port
<highvoltage> hey Guest67771
<highvoltage> your line cut off at "6 switch is a 24 port...
<highvoltage> "
<Guest67771> cat 6 cabling, 24 port switch cisco switch, sever is AMD 8 core with 32 gig RAM.
<Guest67771> thanks highvoltage
<highvoltage> Guest67771: how do they plan on using them? those machines typically work well with LTSP, and intel hardware is usually well supported.
<highvoltage> Guest67771: I would just recommend running some apps locally to save network bandwidth. running a web browser and video player as local app works really well
<Guest67771> It will be a ltsp setup, to teach kids computing fundementals and programs with the Edubuntu package
<highvoltage> Guest67771: ok. it's also really good to have lots of bandwidth between your server and switch, having 2x gigabit connections from your server to the switch is usually a good idea
<Guest67771> OK, we currently have two nic, 1 to outside and second to the switch.  should we change and combine the two nic for 2x and have outlink to the world through the switch?
<Guest67771> thanks highvoltage,  will the asus ee box 1033 with 2 gig ram be sufficient to run some local apps as you described?
<highvoltage> it's still a good idea to have a seperate nic to outside of the ltsp network
<highvoltage> so if it's possible, I would probably look at adding another nic to the server. but 1x gigabit should also be enough for 18 machines
<Guest67771> understand,  we can keep the setup the way it is and purchase a second nic when the sytem expands.
<highvoltage> (2x would give some performance increase under network load)
<highvoltage> yep, that sounds good
<highvoltage> Guest67771: at the office where I work we have a few atoms with 1GB RAM and they run local apps quite well
<highvoltage> Guest67771: you can browse flash sites comfortably and watch youtube and videos as well
<Guest67771> ok -  to both
<Guest67771> can the server stream same video to all systems?
<highvoltage> with some configuration, yes
<Guest67771> highvoltage,  is there a good link on setting up the .conf files for the ltsp.  the first one we did, brought everyone from the servers gui
<highvoltage> Guest67771: there's an ltsp manual that is afaik reasonably complete, it covers local apps and performance tuning (the default setup gives you lower performance with better security, but you can figure out and choose which is more important in your environment)
<highvoltage> Guest67771: #ltsp is also a very friendly place with good ltsp help
<Guest67771> ok,  highvoltage.    Thanks, this should get me started.  you've been a tremendous help today.   keep up the good work
<highvoltage> Guest67771: thanks! also consider adding your setup to http://edubuntu.org/deployments :)
<Guest67771> ok -  goodbye for now :)
#edubuntu 2012-09-30
<anyfrancis> BlahAgain
#edubuntu 2013-09-24
<stgraber> highvoltage: hey, so I just fixed a few issues with the Edubuntu image, the current one looks good enough from a seed/manifest point of view. Will you have time to test them today or tomorrow?
<stgraber> (there was a bug causing indicator-sound from bringing a bunch of touch packages into our DVD image, I had that fixed this morning)
#edubuntu 2013-09-25
<highvoltage> stgraber: yep
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, are we supposed to execute 13.10 Beta 2 test?
<smartboyhw> *tests
<stgraber> highvoltage: awesome, thanks!
<highvoltage> stgraber: I haven't tested unity on edubuntu again, will be the first thing I check to see if the dash works now
<stgraber> highvoltage: it looks like the dash isn't returning any result here, can you try and nag some people in #ubuntu-desktop if you get the same behaviour on your end?
<stgraber> (if that's reproducable, that'd certainly be a bit of a blocker for us)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok
<stgraber> highvoltage: ^ that one should have a working unity
#edubuntu 2013-09-26
<highvoltage> cool, syncing...
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> stgraber: pong
<highvoltage> (i386 passes need to check amd64 still)
<highvoltage> the dash at least works
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah though we're getting online results... that's because of a typo in our gsettings override, I'll fix that now (but won't respin for it)
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm testing amd64 here FWIW
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, I just fired it up too
<highvoltage> just over 17:00 here so I should have less work interruptions :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: uploaded edubuntu-artwork with the fix (after testing it), so that problem won't show up again :)
<stgraber> now trying ltsp-live
<stgraber> highvoltage: I reproduced the black screen in ltsp-live, looking at the source of that problem
<highvoltage> stgraber: it's odd, I don't think you could reproduce it last time could you?
<stgraber> highvoltage: last time I tried was a while back
<stgraber> highvoltage: found the issue, the user creation failed
<stgraber> highvoltage: the client side is fine, but the users don't exist on the server
<stgraber> highvoltage: it's a bug in newuers, it segfaults :)
<highvoltage> the shell script!?
<stgraber> newusers is a binary
<highvoltage> ah right, that one.
<stgraber> I think I'll just switch to useradd
<stgraber> highvoltage: fixed a bug in edubuntu-live that was preventing us from getting a translated user session on the live environment
<stgraber> highvoltage: testing a ltsp-live fix now
<highvoltage> stgraber: cool
<stgraber> highvoltage: and at last, a working ltsp-live!
<stgraber>  ltsp-live |   75 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++----------------------------
<stgraber>  1 file changed, 42 insertions(+), 33 deletions(-)
<stgraber> and uploaded
<stgraber> highvoltage: finishing a test install here, if that passes, I'll mark edubuntu as good to go for beta
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok great
<gassho> :o
<gassho> newedubuntu?
<gassho> :3
<stgraber> highvoltage: oh, we also have a dnsmasq bug preventing LTSP from starting post-install :)
<stgraber> I've got a fix for that one too, will upload in a minute
<highvoltage> stgraber: eek. thanks for taking care of it
<stgraber> so I think tomorrow's image should be pretty good ;) too bad I didn't see all those issues yesterday.
#edubuntu 2013-09-28
<HecticZA> Godd day :)
<HecticZA> *Good
<HecticZA> Hi
<HecticZA> I installed Edubuntu 13.04 on a Fujitsu Siemiens Amilo L series laptop.
<HecticZA> The screen display is now split into 4 blocks
<HecticZA> A pic at the following link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6rbgx40ekwg5aay/2013-09-28%2012.15.31.jpg
<HecticZA> Any advise for me please?
#edubuntu 2013-09-29
<gassho> i love you
#edubuntu 2014-09-22
<kieron-compaq_> hallo all
<kieron-compaq_> ive got some very basic machines that are gonna be used for educational perposes
<kieron-compaq_> and i need to know if edubuntu will be able to run on 512mb memory
#edubuntu 2014-09-24
<Bhanu> how do i install it
#edubuntu 2015-09-21
<marcus> hi all. I am trying to preseed an edubuntu installation and added 'tasksel tasksel/first multiselect edubuntu-desktop' to the preseed file but edubuntu does not get installed
<marcus> or is there no task available called edubuntu-desktop?
<cryingfreeman> Hi! I have a number of old thin client computers (HP t5000) that does not have PAE .. Can I somehow boot them in edubuntu 14.04?
<cryingfreeman> "This kernel requires the following features not present on the CPU: \n pae \n Unable to boot, please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU"
<cryingfreeman> I've tried adding "forcepae -- forcepae" to the boot options, to no avail
<highvoltage> marcus: there is such a task in ubuntu, not sure if it's called edubuntu-desktop though but you can install the edubuntu-desktop metapackage and that should do the treick
<highvoltage> *trick
<highvoltage> cryingfreeman: there's not a PAE kernel in Ubuntu 14.04 anymore... but I heared of people who used a kernel from debian squeeze on 14.04 for old machines
<highvoltage> shazzr: https://www.debian-administration.org/article/648/Offline_Package_Management_for_APT might be of help
<cryingfreeman> highvoltage: sounds like a really smooth solution.. ;) Thanks a lot canonical :P
<cryingfreeman> highvoltage: thanks a lot for the help though :)
<highvoltage> cryingfreeman: well, in their defense on this one... none-pae CPUs are at the edge and there are very few machines out there that don't support it
<highvoltage> cryingfreeman: unfortunately... most of those machines are thin clients, not so nice for anyone who supports LTSP
#edubuntu 2015-09-22
<marcus> is there something light a light ui available for edubuntu. we got some low end hardware here (1gb ram) and unity does not perform that well on it.
 * highvoltage finds xfce4 to be the most usable and configurable for light-weight desktop environments
<highvoltage> (mate has slightly better ltsp integration if you're planning to use that, inherited from the old gnome 2 world)
<marcus> yes mate sounds good
#edubuntu 2015-09-25
<dourvas> hey!Forgive me if i sound too novice but i am. i installed the last version of edubuntu (fat client). During installation everything were going wanderfull. i even were connected to internet (the 2 arrows were visible). when the installation process completed and the edubuntu started to load for the first time it crashed. I did not record the message. i had to reset the mashine. the edubuntu works fine now but there is no sign of the
<dourvas> what do i do to connect to the network?
#edubuntu 2015-09-26
<anonymous> ajmitch:
<anonymous> bad archive mirror erro ?
<anonymous> error
<anonymous> any idea why
<anonymous> ?
#edubuntu 2016-09-26
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: python-markdown (yakkety-proposed/universe) [2.6.6-1 => 2.6.7-1] (edubuntu) (sync)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: dia-shapes (yakkety-proposed/universe) [0.6.0-2 => 0.6.0-3] (edubuntu) (sync)
#edubuntu 2016-09-27
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: libgksu (yakkety-proposed/universe) [2.0.13~pre1-8ubuntu1 => 2.0.13~pre1-9ubuntu1] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-initramfs-tools (xenial-proposed/main) [0.27ubuntu1 => 0.27ubuntu1.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2016-09-28
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-utils (yakkety-proposed/main) [0.29-0ubuntu3 => 0.29-0ubuntu4] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: libgksu (yakkety-proposed/universe) [2.0.13~pre1-8ubuntu1 => 2.0.13~pre1-9ubuntu1] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2016-09-29
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (yakkety-proposed/main) [2.2-0ubuntu1 => 2.3-0ubuntu1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (yakkety-proposed/main) [2.3-0ubuntu1 => 2.3-0ubuntu2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (yakkety-proposed/main) [0.7.8-8-g0439d8a-0ubuntu1 => 0.7.8-11-g02f6c4b-0ubuntu1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2016-09-30
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (yakkety-proposed/main) [2.3-0ubuntu2 => 2.3-0ubuntu3] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (yakkety-proposed/main) [2:10.0.7-3227872-4.1ubuntu1 => 2:10.0.7-3227872-5ubuntu1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2016-10-02
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (yakkety-proposed/main) [2.3-0ubuntu3 => 2.3-0ubuntu4] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-initramfs-tools (yakkety-proposed/main) [0.29ubuntu1 => 0.29ubuntu1.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-initramfs-tools (yakkety-proposed/main) [0.29ubuntu1 => 0.29ubuntu2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (yakkety-proposed/main) [2.3-0ubuntu4 => 2.3-0ubuntu5] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (yakkety-proposed/main) [2.3-0ubuntu4 => 2.3-0ubuntu5] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-09-26
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: wxpython3.0 (artful-proposed/universe) [3.0.2.0+dfsg-4 => 3.0.2.0+dfsg-5] (edubuntu) (sync)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (artful-proposed/main) [2.18-0ubuntu2 => 2.18-0ubuntu3] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-09-26
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (cosmic-proposed/main) [2:10.3.0-0ubuntu2 => 2:10.3.0-0ubuntu3] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: pygments (cosmic-proposed/main) [2.2.0+dfsg-1ubuntu1 => 2.2.0+dfsg-2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-server) (sync)
#edubuntu 2018-09-28
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: pencil2d (cosmic-proposed/universe) [0.6.1.1-1 => 0.6.2-1] (edubuntu) (sync)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: calibre (cosmic-proposed/universe) [3.31.0+dfsg-1 => 3.32.0+dfsg-1] (edubuntu, ubuntustudio) (sync)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: calibre (cosmic-proposed/universe) [3.31.0+dfsg-1 => 3.32.0+dfsg-1] (edubuntu, ubuntustudio) (sync)
#edubuntu 2019-09-29
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: atomix (eoan-proposed/universe) [3.32.1-1 => 3.34.0-1] (edubuntu) (sync)
