#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-20
<jrwren> rick_h: that printer thing is very funny
<snap-l> Good morning
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning
<rick_h> party
<rick_h> http://hairysun.com/blog/2012/02/19/presidents-day-decorator-sale/
<rick_h> good workd brousch who's not here
<snap-l> I just ordered it and will at some point read it in the cloud reader.
<brousch> i love the python community
<snap-l> What did they do now?
<brousch> i emailled matt harrison of "Guide to: Learning Python Decorators" about our GRPUG meeting tonight. he said he would use one of his Amazon free ebook days to make his book free today
<brousch> i asked for a copy to give away and he made it free for everyone
<snap-l> Yeah, that's awesome. :)
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<brousch> one of the books i should just give to you. http://www.manning.com/sande/
<brousch> since you have kids in their target audience
<brousch> they sent 2 copies of that
<snap-l> If you want to send it our way, that's cool. :)
<brousch> bleh, wrong tab
<brousch> but i would be happy to get you in touch with my contact at manning
<brousch> she was very helpful
<snap-l> brousch: That would be great
<snap-l> I think we should get back into the user group panhandling for books. :)
<brousch> manning, packt, o'reilly, apress
 * snap-l bought a bare Squeezebox Classic last night
<snap-l> made a pretty low-ball offer, and the guy accepted it.
<snap-l> Whic worries me. :)
<snap-l> But my goal is to get rick_h to buy a Squeezebox by the end of the talk.
<snap-l> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/speakers-audio/wireless-music-systems/devices/7934 <- Think I could get rick_h to get this by the end of the talk? :)
<brousch> i rarely listen to music over speakers at home
<brousch> headphones ftw
<snap-l> brousch: Got you covered.
<snap-l> Even on your laptop
<brousch> but my google music is available on my laptop or in my pocket
<snap-l> This will do FLAC
<snap-l> and internet radio
<brousch> i killed all my flac for mp3 320k
<snap-l> brousch: WHY?!?!
<brousch> google music was flaky on flac
<brousch> and i'm no audiophile ;)
<snap-l> brousch: I see that as a deficiency of Google Music.
<brousch> indeed
<rick_h> what talk is this?
<snap-l> I'll be presenting the Squeezebox at MUG
<snap-l> in March
<rick_h> dude, a 1200 squeezebox?
<snap-l> That's the audiophile version. :)
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/speakers-audio/wireless-music-systems/devices/squeezebox-touch
<snap-l> That's the more earth-bound version
<snap-l> plus, I'll have coupon codes for the Logitech Store.
<rick_h> better be a big coupon code!
<snap-l> 35%
<jrwren> squeezebox?
<jrwren> way too much $
<snap-l> jrwren: Not really. They've come down in price.
<snap-l> and I can show you how to get set up for free. :)
<snap-l> (well, for the cost of hardware)
<jrwren> how?
<jrwren> err... i'm still not clear on what it is.
<snap-l> squeezeslave or softsqueeze
<jrwren> is it just a network adapter
<snap-l> No, it's a whole music ecosystem.
<jrwren> or does it include amp/speakers
<snap-l> Handles internet radio, music service, etc
<jrwren> ok, squeezebox controller for iphone looks good.
<snap-l> jrwren: You can do both
<snap-l> There's the Radio, which is like a kitchen radio
<snap-l> and the Touch, which can hook to an amp
<snap-l> and the Transporter, which can eat money in pursuit of audiophile perfection
<jrwren> lol
<snap-l> But there's also software clients
<jrwren> interesting.
<jrwren> i'd love to run one on a low power something.
<snap-l> Squeezeplay is their SqueezeOS with a Lua loader
<jrwren> something maybe 1W that I could leave on all the time.
<jrwren> hrm... or boots fast so I can 1 button on and be playing music in a few seconds.
<snap-l> That's the Radio
<snap-l> or the Touch (with speakers)
<snap-l> I'm using the Squeezeslave client to play my music over SSH tunnel
<jrwren> ha! awesome.
<snap-l> so I have access to my entire library.
<jrwren> how fast is it at scrubbing your library metadata?
<snap-l> and because I don't own lots of bandwidth, I have it set up to transcode it to 128Kbps
<snap-l> It's pretty quick
<snap-l> Saves it all in sqlite with nightly checks
<jrwren> becuase I've tried the same thing with VPN and itunes and it does not work.
 * jrwren is checking out squeezeslave
<jrwren> is there a last.fm plugin for squeezeslave? :)
<snap-l> http://code.google.com/p/squeezeslave/
<snap-l> yes
<jrwren> oh, slave is the client.
<snap-l> It runs on the server
<jrwren> and you run squeeze server on your server?
<snap-l> Yep
<jrwren> so this is like MPD that actually works?
<snap-l> Which supports multiple clients
<snap-l> and it's OSS
<snap-l> (written in Perl)
<snap-l> _AND_ they document the protocol.
<jrwren> are you familiar with MPD?
<jrwren> maybe MPD didn't do the streaming.
<jrwren> so this is MPD with streaming.
<jrwren> sounds great.
<snap-l> I'm not sure if I used something like MPD in the past
<jrwren> my friend built an entire streaming internet website thing on mpd and icecast
<snap-l> No, I didn't use it. I used Firefly (or whatever the itunes thingie was)
<snap-l> jrwren: Nice!
<jrwren> he built it all together. sounds like squeeze takes care of this for ya
<krondor> I haven't really looked at audio sync stuff yet in my htpc build.  I'll need to check this out a bit.
<jrwren> krondor: doesn't sound like this is syncing. this is streaming
<rick_h> jrwren: did you ever see anything with the bookie tag control in FF?
<krondor> I see there's work on squeezebox xbmc plugin so looks promising to me
<jrwren> rick_h: i did see it once more, but didn't screenshot it.
<snap-l> jrwren: You can sunc several players together
<snap-l> though the software clients tend to get out of sync
<rick_h> jrwren: so it's not 100% of the time?
<jrwren> syncing several players?  like multiple player points playing same audio in sync?
<snap-l> jrwren: Yep
<jrwren> rick_h: no, it was 100% of the time, i just don't use bookie that often :)
<jrwren> zomg, synced player would be hot.
<snap-l> Going to check to see if the hardware players do this better.
<rick_h> jrwren: ok, gotcha
<jrwren> rick_h: i moved to FF aurora and now the issue is gone.
<rick_h> jrwren: ah ok
<rick_h> sorry, just hacking on the mobile/responsive ui and figured I'd check while I'm ui hacking
<snap-l> krondor: Yeah, that XMBC plugin appears stalled from what I can tell
<krondor> you're looking at the old one I think, this is the one I was looking at; http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93544
<krondor> this is the other xbmc multiroom/sync plugin I was looking at before.  http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=78431
<snap-l> Ah, this is a new one
<CrusaderAD> Anyone here familiar with setting up SSH on ubuntu server?
<krondor> but it's not exactly light, so maybe squeezebox is more practical for just music.
<snap-l> CrusaderAD: A bit. :)
<snap-l> krondor: Yeah, Squeezebox offloads a lot onto the server, which is perfect for how I listen to music
<CrusaderAD> I've setp openssh-server and I can hit it from inside the LAN just fine... when I'm outside (I can test it from my droid :) ) it says connection refused. I'm pretty sure I have my firewall all setup to allow port 22, I have the same rules setup for FTP and that works just fine. Am I missing something?
<snap-l> CrusaderAD: IF you can hit on your LAN, then there's some firewall rule preventing access to it
<brousch> do you have a nat device in between your computer and the internet?
<brousch> you'll need to forward some port on your internet router to port 22 on your computer
<CrusaderAD> I was hoping it was some simple setting on the server... I have a sonicwall which sucks hardcore. I know all is open on the internet router... gotta be the sonicwall.
<krondor> CrusaderAD:  if you're in front of the server on your LAN and trying to hit it over 3G with your droid you could see if the packet is even getting there with tcpdump.
<brousch> it's not enough to be open on the router, if it uses nat it has to have specific ports forwarded
<krondor> CrusaderAD:  tcpdump -i (yourinterface) port 22
<CrusaderAD> krondor: I'll check that out
<CrusaderAD> thanks for the suggestions, it's gotta be the sonicwall
<snap-l> Man, I <3 Flesh Field's Reflect The Enemy
<snap-l> Got me lip-syncing and drumming
<rick_h> jrwren: you've got an iphone?
<jrwren> yes, i have an iphone
<rick_h> jrwren: can you load up https://bmark.us and let me know if it works?
<rick_h> can enter a tag to filter and such?
<rick_h> it's not overly pretty, but hopefully the responsive css kicks in and the tag control stuff works
<jrwren> CrusaderAD: for test you could turn off ftp and tell ssh to listen on port21 and try it. although sonicwall might be doing deeper inspection and block that too :(
<jrwren> rick_h: ipad ok?
<jrwren> or do you specifically want iphone dimensions?
<rick_h> jrwren: ipad is cool I guess
<rick_h> it'll probably not get the mobile css media query
<jrwren> i'll try both
<rick_h> it's set to shrink down at 650px ish
<rick_h> I've not messed with anything apple-ish since the JS drive UI stuff has gone in though
<jrwren> i actually get no response when searching for a tag on ipad.
<jrwren> same search on aurora works great.
<rick_h> really, interesting
<jrwren> oh.... its a case thing maybe.
<jrwren> yup, nm.
 * rick_h checks, didn't think tags had case
<jrwren> i wonder if there is a case hint you can give it ipad textbox
<rick_h> that's just a bug. I should lowercase your input on check. I lowercase all tags I think
<jrwren> well, ipad defaults to first letter uppercase and Python gave zero results when python gave results.
<rick_h> ah, gotcha. Yea, so I'm not lowering on completion suggest. I'll add a bug for that
<jrwren> on phone the lack of go button makes it unclear that the input box is even there, so if no one has never seen it before they might not know the search box is there.
<rick_h> yea, but I wanted to give it full width. I've got some polish to do there. Add some margins/padding and such
<jrwren> everything else is pretty great.
<jrwren> not sure if there are mediaquery options for size whe keyboard is on the screen.
<rick_h> I might need to figure out how to add in some default text somehow, but it'll be a pita
<rick_h> no, I can't change your keyboard
<jrwren> its still a little wide for when phone is in portrait
<rick_h> what is wide?
<jrwren> i have to scroll left and right
<jrwren> by maybe 50%
<rick_h> oh hmm, maybe I don't have the viewport things right. It should just be 100% zoom I'd have thoght
<rick_h> (does on my android)
<jrwren> i'd think too.
<rick_h> ok, well I'll have to find someone with some apple gear to play with some time. It's a first baby step
<rick_h> thanks for the testing and the feedback onthe tag control. I knew that was going to be a pain point
<jrwren> no prob
<brousch> totally borked on my droid
<rick_h> brousch: make sure to clear cache if you've ever been before
<rick_h> mobile devices don't like to give up their cached js/css
<brousch> i tried clear cache
<rick_h> k, then you've probably got what _stink_ has, he says his 2.2 devices hates me to
<rick_h> I'll check it out this weekend when they come by for the sprint
<_stink_> brousch: you have what i have
<_stink_> sorry, i am contagious
<rick_h> hah
<jrwren> raspberrypi would make a sweet squeezebox client :)
<snap-l> jrwren: I thought about that.
<jrwren> snap-l: if only it had 1/8" out.  I think only audio is in HDMI
<jrwren> snap-l: pogoplug might be cool too http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1152174
<jrwren> holy crap, there is a glut of these things. http://serverfault.com/questions/152869/low-energy-low-cost-24-7-hardware-linux-box
<snap-l> Funny thing is the Squeezebox Radio literally has an option to enable SSH
<snap-l> password 1234
<snap-l> It's a busy box ARM system with a LUA loader
<snap-l> all of the config files are in Lua
<jrwren> cool.
<snap-l> http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezePlay
<jrwren> must be a lua web server too?
<snap-l> No, server software is Perl CGI
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> fastcgi at least?
<snap-l> Well, consider this device used to be the SLIMp3
<snap-l> jrwren: It runs it's own web server.
<snap-l> You don't have to run apache to run it. :)
<jrwren> oh!
<jrwren> that isn't perl CGI then.
<jrwren> that is a perl web server.
<jrwren> rawk.
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> Sorry, stuck in the 1990s. :)
<snap-l> jrwren: YOu should come out to MUG next month. :)
<jrwren> march?
<jrwren> first tues?
<jrwren> what is the location? i recall it not being farmingon library anymore.
<rick_h> it's back there again
<jrwren> oh, ok.
<snap-l> Second Tuesday of the month
<snap-l> So, March 13th
<jrwren> i put it on calendar. we shall see.
<rick_h> ah crap, I'll be out of town
<snap-l> rick_h: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<rick_h> snap-l: pycon waits for no man
<brousch> snap-l: you fool. you dare compete with pycon?!
 * snap-l plans a private demo at rick_h's bookie sprint
 * snap-l wonders if there's a lucrative career in door-to-door music system sales.
<PainBank> anyone here done a conversion of a .swf to an html app?  decompiling and converting and such...
<brousch> sounds like a buttload of pain
<PainBank> meh, there are some tools out there, that on the surface appear to make it easy to do.
<snap-l> PainBank: I think they promise more than they deliver
<snap-l> much like nash and flash compatibility. :)
<snap-l> http://blog.convore.com/post/17951919109/convore-shutting-down-april-1st
<snap-l> IN other words, just use IRC and be done with it.
<rick_h> heh, poor convore
<rick_h> at least they'll go strong through pycon
<snap-l> rick_h: Wonder what the new hotness will be for Pycon. :)
<rick_h> heh, grove.io eh? take 2
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't see that being particularly useful
<rick_h> hah, my coffee shop addition paid off. I made the local newspaper it seems
<snap-l> Best not use that 15 minutes of fame all in one place.
<brousch> i suggested convore to jesse noller for something. i wonder if that's why he responded 'lol'
<brousch> i'm sad to see convore shut down. what they did was basically one of my ideas i never got around to.
<snap-l> brousch: There's always room for making IRC easier to use
<snap-l> much like AOL made newsgroups easier to use.
<snap-l> and by extension essentially killed off newsgroups. :)
<brousch> not irc. having a forum dedicated to conferences where the point is to continue session discussions after the talk itself
<snap-l> I feel remiss in not participating in the last two Humble Bundles
<snap-l> but I don't have an Android Phone (yet)
<snap-l> and I don't know what they're producing for the Mojam bundle
<snap-l> http://fixtstore.com/news/?p=3785
<snap-l> Something tells me they're looking for college kids.
<nullspace> ouch, 30k I wasn't even paid that little out of college
<nullspace> hmm bad example, I jus tmade myself out to be a crappy coder....
<rick_h> https://twitter.com/#!/niallohiggins/status/171664967647494144 whoa
<snap-l> rick_h: It's only a matter of time
<snap-l> Apache is unfortunately on the way out from the Web Server market
<rick_h> crazy
<nullspace> wtf
<jrwren> rediculous.
<jrwren> apache is kind and will remain such.
<jrwren> ask any shared webhost.
<snap-l> kind and slow
<jrwren> not really.
<nullspace> snap-l: site sources please
<snap-l> nginx handles static content like a bat out of hell
<snap-l> openmetalcast.com
<snap-l> nginx
<nullspace> yeah too bad static pages are well so 1999
<snap-l> Sourceforge uses nginx
<jrwren> you need to watch the node.js video that i posted on friday.
<snap-l> nullspace: Save for jpgs and mp3 and ogg files, sure, they're 1999
<jrwren> the event loop b.s. is basically exaclty node.js
<jrwren> there is a reason nginx is so fast, it doesn't do as much
<brousch> and CSS
<jrwren> a whole lot of hosters actually use all those extra features of apache.
<snap-l> jrwren: You're correct
<snap-l> however, there is a huge speed increase, and no mod-rewrite BS to be had with using nginx
<snap-l> that covers a good portion of usecases
<jrwren> yes, but only a tiny interesting portion
<snap-l> If you're trying to do mod_auth with LDAP and kerberos, you're better off with Apache
<jrwren> i'd love to see the bmark where someone takes apache, removes all the modules and compares with nginx.
<snap-l> jrwren: Tiny? Larger than you think. :)
<jrwren> in both mpm_fork and mpm_thread.
<jrwren> oh, and BTW, there is no reason someone can't write mpm_eventloop
<jrwren> and then apache basically is nginx :p
<jrwren> oh look, it already exists.  http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/event.html
<rick_h> anyone recall off the top of their head how to extract a tarball into a specified directory?
<jrwren> its experiemental, just like nginx :)
<rick_h> my man page goggles are missing it
<jrwren> rick_h: -C dir ?
<nullspace> I'm pretty sure that's what you want
<snap-l> jrwren: All I know is I have decent performance and understandable rules for my nginx setup
<jrwren> i won't knock nginx at all. it is sweet.
<snap-l> and it took me all of an afternoon to convert
<jrwren> but i won't knock apache either, it is sweet. And I won't say nginx is any better than apache. it is just different.
<snap-l> fair enough
<brousch> i'm sure once nginx is feature-complete with apache it will be just as slow and bloated
<snap-l> brousch: I doubt it
<nullspace> I have yet to run into apache being my bottle neck, ever....
<snap-l> nullspace: What's the largest site you've ever deployed?
<jrwren> http://nbonvin.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/apache-vs-nginx-vs-varnish-vs-gwan/  looks like gwan i WAY better at static content
<nullspace> snap-l: what metric would you like?
<snap-l> nullspace: Whatever you can provide. :)
<nullspace> but currently what I'm working on is the biggest thing I've ever touched
 * brousch suppresses dirty responses
<snap-l> Varnish + Nginx is quite a killer combo
<snap-l> but varnish has it's own compromises.
<rick_h> nullspace: apache sacrifices on memory, it's a memory hog with apps at scale
<rick_h> nginx is more cpu bound, and less featureful
<rick_h> it's a compromise regardless of what you choose, pick you poison
<snap-l> rick_h is no fun.
<rick_h> :P
<snap-l> ;)
<nullspace> 300K+ LOC
<nullspace> and it's growing
<rick_h> LOC == /dev/null
<nullspace> so snap-l asks for what ever metric and you cut the first one I give
<rick_h> geeze, this dicussion is a repeat of every bad dev conversation ever if it's gotten down to LoC. have fun: http://www.ohloh.net/
<rick_h> LoC doens't mean anything to hosting
<rick_h> you show me a coverage chart that shows you hit every LoC during a web request and I guess we can chat on that
<jrwren> that would mean you are doign it wrong :)
<rick_h> when it gets to the web server we're talking memory footprint, io time, number of workers,
<snap-l> number of users
<nullspace> 2k users
<jrwren> concurrent requests.
<rick_h> meh, what's a user? hits to winzip.exe?
<snap-l> rick_h: IN my case, yes. :)
<nullspace> rick_h: ok so what do you want?
<rick_h> or launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs :)
<jrwren> can you have 1024+ open files(sockets)
<rick_h> snap-l: then in that case varnish is doing all your work, nginx/apache doesn't matter :)
<jrwren> so once you raise your file handle limit ot 65k how close to that can you get?
<snap-l> *snort*
<nullspace> I really don't feel like I'm learning anything, just a lot of trolling going on
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> go brad!
<jrwren> nice call
<rick_h> nullspace: well web appliaction measuring fall along a ton of different limits/bottlenecks (potential bottlenecks)
<rick_h> and you end up scaling up/out depending on the limitation your app hits
<jrwren> he left
<rick_h> did he? crap missed it
<rick_h> oh well, wasn't trying to troll, but damn LoC was never a useful metric of anything *sigh*
<rick_h> even in LP land someone wants us to use LoC to measure "maint. overhead of changes"
<rick_h> makes me cry a little inside
<snap-l> LoC is about as useful a measure as furlongs per fortnight
<jrwren> less so.
<jrwren> because furlongs per fortnight is a valid velocity.
<jrwren> LoC isn't valid for anything other than LoC
<rick_h> at least in our case it's looking at code by looking at code
<jrwren> snap-l: apt-cache search squeezebox says no :(  why no?
<rick_h> saying that LoC is a server measure is a giant screwball
<snap-l> jrwren: Have to download it from Logitech
<jrwren> the server?
<jrwren> i thought the linux server was open source
<jrwren> the wiki says it is.
<jrwren> why has no one packaged it? total bummer
<snap-l> It is packaged.
<snap-l> one sc
<snap-l> sec
<snap-l> http://www.mysqueezebox.com/download
<jrwren> why is the deb twice the size as the mac/windows package?
<brousch> because it's twice as awesome
<jrwren> lol
<snap-l> brousch: Beat me to it. :)
<brousch> because i am twice as awesome!
<nullspace> you guys still going at it?
<snap-l> Nah, we're done for now.
<nullspace> rick_h: I'm really unsure how to test our applications limits but it's a damn sight faster than what it's replacing
<rick_h> nullspace: understand. response time is a good metric
<brousch> is there a slashdot simulator?
<nullspace> it's private site witha  login
<rick_h> http://code.google.com/p/multi-mechanize/
<brousch> that just means you need your own private cloud to run the simulator ;)
<rick_h> sorry http://testutils.org/multi-mechanize/
<rick_h> nullspace: yea, but you can always fake the POST request to the server with the right headers and follow the redirect for example
<rick_h> anyway, lots of ways of load testing
<nullspace> 8.56s, 24 requests 313.6KB  < - from firebird
<snap-l> Could also try throwing ab at it.
<nullspace> firebug
<rick_h> ouch, 9s?
<nullspace> yeah but that's loading pretty much the entire site
<nullspace> 3.19 - JS, 2.2 for images, 1.48s - HTML
<brousch> must be a big dashboard thing?
<snap-l> How much of that is just getting things ready to be loaded?
<nullspace> more like a big input system for a giant calculator
<nullspace> snap-l: not sure where to find that for you
<snap-l> That would be the number of seconds before your first bit of data comes back
<nullspace> looks like 292ms
<nullspace> 680ms for DNS, 514ms for connecting
<snap-l> That DNS seems high to me
<nullspace> goign through a VPN out to texas
<snap-l> Oh, so the load times are going to be pretty skewed
<nullspace> well me going out to texas and back to me is 2.69s, but that's lacking the user privilage code
<nullspace> 45ms waiting
<snap-l> Yeah, so 9s is probably more like 5s
<brousch> ouch
<nullspace> we did make a consciouse effrot to make the initial load the slowest but moving from page to page is almost instant
<brousch> a reasonable compromise for a long-use-time program
<nullspace> I haven't looked at tuning our tomcat server configs as I think out biggest gains will be made elseware
<nullspace> basic things like gz-ing html, js and css & lowering the frequency or garbage collection are already running
<nullspace> any suggestions
<brousch> a dns server closer to your users?
<brousch> actually, i guess that would be cut out the vps
<brousch> vpn
<jrwren> 680ms for DNS is insane. that should be <1ms :p
<jrwren> vpn is evil.
<nullspace> websense proxy is evil
<nullspace> the network monkey who is learning networking as he is building it evil
<brousch> ut oh. has greg-g defected?  https://twitter.com/#!/g_gerg/status/171694275942285313
<greg-g> brousch: I have Ubuntu on my x220, don't worry :)
 * greg-g came in here after posting that ready to respond to backlash ;)
<brousch> whew
<snap-l> heh
<jrwren> who cares? I only use linux as server.
<brousch> oh don't worry. you're on the list
<snap-l> Jesus, recruiters are stupid.
<snap-l> Got another call from the recruiter re: the "Python Web Developer" position (Which has no details other than the Python Web Developer heading"
<snap-l> ASked them for more info so I can pass it along to other folks
<snap-l> Next time, I block 'em. :)
<snap-l> I should be grateful that people still call me, but dammit if it doesn't bug me when they can't take a hint.
<snap-l> In any event, if someone wants to do Python Web Development in the Detroit area for around 60K - 80K, have I got a hot lead for you. :)
<krondor> nullspace:  if you don't need dnssec, amazon dns looks really nice for proximity based responses to users.
<krondor> says me never having used it :)
<nullspace> turns out I was double VPNing out, it's a last resort in a script in the event both VPN servers appear to be down
<nullspace> short story is my VPN timed out twice very quickly and I defaulted to my work mates internet connection, the net monkey is pulling on the cables again
<nullspace> this is the only place where I've dropping the net connection is a vaild wayt o fix exchange
<krondor> not true, exchange hates network transitions (wired/wireless when undocking).  Always have to kill it end that task.
<krondor> Also VPN to non-VPN transitions w/ OutlookAnywhere... but most of these probs are because it's exchange and MAPI is evil.
<nullspace> I think I've confused you, usually our net engineer restarts kills the network because someone is complaingin about not getting email in some remote part of the world, though being one of only two people with presistant connections to the net we are teh only ones that complaing when the net drops
<nullspace> my email is fine
<nullspace> that or he insitutes something funky on ISA, yes we still have an ISA firewall
<nullspace> though I've heard some the issues might relate to the barcuda having hardware issues
<krondor> ah yes, I thought you meant your issues changing networks with Exchange, not Exchange siezing up until he 'restarts' the network lol.
<krondor> I keep having to beat the MS guys down with sticks to keep ISA out of here.  Every new MS box they get is like, with ISA I can do X to Sharepoint.
<nullspace> I think I threw up in my mouth a little
<krondor> I just scare them away with things like 'hey look at this neat plone thing.  Do you think it's like Sharepoint?'
<nullspace> though I think the guys here could use a sharepoint server, constantly fighting to write to network shared files
<krondor> Google Docs FTW I say
<nullspace> if we could locallly run google docs then maybe
<nullspace> sensetive documents, not that we put in any real work in securing things
<krondor> box.net + google docs integration, but it's not cheap.
<snap-l> Blazeix: BTW: XOnotic 0.5 is released, and it's awesome.
<snap-l> Was playing it a little over the weekend.
<snap-l> Feels like they tightened up the bits that annoyed me about Nexuiz
<snap-l> also doesn't feel like jackrabbits on acid.
<Blazeix> ah, cool, i'll take a look
<nullspace> hmm I think the 248.5KB of JS on the server could use a bit of a trim
<nullspace> on the plus side yslow gives the our site a score of 92
<nullspace> snap-l: 5.43s (onload: 4.9s)
<nullspace> yeah the JS is most of the wait time
<snap-l> That's not surprising
<snap-l> Might want to cut that up into separate files
<krondor> Newegg was genius to make an android app... I couldn't resist http://bit.ly/ybgnsY
<snap-l> krondor: Nice!
<krondor> they have an 8 bay enclosure too, but the way HD prices are right now...
<jrwren> snap-l: I think he means running the onload event
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh, right.
<nullspace> not all of the JS is running on load but I'd say a big chunk is
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-21
<jrwren> snap-l: completely unimpressed with teh squeezebox deb pkg
<jrwren> its terrible.
<rick_h> ha
<jrwren> http://www.havetheknowhow.com/Install-the-software/Install-Squeezebox-server.html  <-- much better
<jrwren> or not.
<jrwren> same damned pkg.
<jrwren> fail.
<jrwren> and why do I need a mysqueezebox account to login to the server that is on my host?
<jrwren> softsqueeze windows could not find a JRE... DIAF!
<snap-l> jrwren: They tie it together so you can still use the radio if your machine is offline
<snap-l> and softsqueeze is a bit of a PITA, which is why I use squeezeslave
<snap-l> but that's text based
<snap-l> and the package for the server is a bit woknky, but no worse than most commercial packages
<snap-l> all I can say is "it gets better"
<snap-l> I had the same hate for it
<jrwren> just connecting to stream is not bad.
<jrwren> but wtf is with the delay?
<jrwren> took like 5 minutes.
<jrwren> can I turn off any transcoding?
<jrwren> i don't see it getting better.
<jrwren> this is terrible.
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> patches welcome? :)
<jrwren> i think starting with a different codebase would be better.
<rick_h> fork fork fork!
<jrwren> no ty
<jrwren> I'm thinking, why fork Hurd, when Linux exists?
<jrwren> this is so bad it says it is playing one thing, but I"m hearing aother thing.
<jrwren> a lot of potential i suppose.
<jrwren> haha, now its playing a track that I clicked 10min ago.
<jrwren> I didn't queue it, I clicked play, as in now.
<jrwren> this is WIERD.
<rick_h> it takes time for all that to cross the air you know
<jrwren> right.
<Blazeix> bless its heart, it's trying.
<snap-l> jrwren: OK, the stream.mp3? It's awful
<snap-l> Don't use that
<snap-l> For whatever reason it gets buffered all to hell
<snap-l> use the client
<snap-l> Trust me
<jrwren> oh well that sucks, stream.mp3 was such a great idea.
<snap-l> I know. It sucks. Don't use it. :)
<snap-l> http://download.magnatune.com/artists/albums/philrey-hellzauber/
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> new OMC is up
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1096907/do-browsers-parse-javascript-on-every-page-load/9261355#9261355
<snap-l> Honestly, that's something I hadn't thought of before.
<rick_h> yea, welcome to compiler optmization
<brousch> geez, long updates today
<brousch> maybe because i put them off for a week
<rick_h> heh, not surprising.
<rick_h> bah, good fish equip is hard to find. Can't find the hose I want but from a couple of places and none of them do anything other than ups ground shipping :(
 * rick_h misses prime shipping from everyone else
<brousch> you need a hose and you need it now?
<rick_h> yea, most everything else is arriving today
<rick_h> but I need the hose to reach the sink in the basement so I can clear our/refill the water easily
<brousch> it's just a garden hose?
<rick_h> http://www.amazon.com/Brand-75FT-PYTHON-SPILL-CLEAN/dp/B0002DI06Q/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1329830134&sr=8-4
<brousch> oh i see. you need the python hose
<rick_h> so it's got a sink faucet hookup, and it uses the sink running water to prime/pull the water out of the tank, etc
<brousch> geezum pete. 75ft of aquarium hose?!
<rick_h> well, my aquairum is a bit far from the sink atm :/
<snap-l> rick_h: That's why God invented buckets.
<snap-l> and wheels for said buckets.
<rick_h> snap-l: buckets don't pull water out very well
<snap-l> No, but siphon hoses do
<rick_h> I've got 8gal of water in there that's seen a lot of 409 and windex that needs to be thoroughly drawn out
<rick_h> right, and the python is the best siphon hose :)
<snap-l> DOn't you dechlorinate your water beforehand in gallon jugs?
<rick_h> no, after the initial work and setup I'll only fill in 5gal or so a week from the big bottled water from the store
<brousch> don't you have a pond/creek in the backyard you can pull water from?
<rick_h> should evaporate about that
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> or just siphon the water out the window
<rick_h> and no, I don't have clorine in the water really due to the community well vs city water
<snap-l> rick_h: Ah, being a city boy, I always had to use chlorine removal stuff
<rick_h> you guys are super helpful. Tell you what, why don't I just lift the 80# tank plus the 64# of water in there on my back and dump it outside
<rick_h> snap-l: I've got some water conditiner, and I've got trace element add-ins for the plants
<rick_h> but yea, not goign to treat in 1gal increments
<rick_h> we only deal with 5-10gal increments with anything
<brousch> just trying to think outside of the $80 hose
<snap-l> rick_h: Right, I just remember when I had my 10 gallon tank (when I was around 8th grade) taking rinsed milk jugs and leaving them out overnight
<rick_h> snap-l: ah gotcha
<rick_h> yea, none of that here
<snap-l> rick_h is a per-fesh-i-nal
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> profishinal
<snap-l> That too. :)
<rick_h> http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-Nutrafin-Aqua-Water-Conditioner/dp/B005JP9PSY/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1329831627&sr=8-6
<rick_h> tend to stick that in the new water as it goes in is all
<snap-l> What? No Tetramin? :)
<rick_h> actually this http://www.amazon.com/Seachem-433-Prime-500ml/dp/B00025694O/ref=sr_1_4?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1329831715&sr=1-4
<snap-l> Am I the only person in the world who can't take King Diamond Seriously?
<snap-l> (listening to snakenet metal radio, and At The Graves is on)
<ColonelPanic001> not familiar
<snap-l> http://www.snakenetmetalradio.com/default.asp
<snap-l> brousch: Have you tried https://raw.github.com/xdissent/ievms/master/ievms.sh ?
<brousch> no, but it looks good
<brousch> someone has also suggested IETester
<brousch> http://www.my-debugbar.com/wiki/IETester/HomePage
<snap-l> What's the best way to determine the python type of a sqlalchemy column?
<snap-l> tried "isinstance(type(meta.metadata.tables['Sample'].columns['phone'].type), String)", but that's returning False
<rick_h> snap-l: sec
<snap-l> rick_h: danke
<rick_h> http://blog.mitechie.com/2010/04/01/hacking-the-sqlalchemy-base-class/
<rick_h> snap-l: see the code sample there ^ I check if a column is a DateTime column in there
<snap-l> Ah, beaut
<snap-l> I knew this was a solved problem, but damned if I could find it.
<rick_h> yea, just realize there's already a class String
<rick_h> so you need sqlalchemy.String
<rick_h> and you should be using Unicode anyway :P
<snap-l> RIght, because Python does brilliant things when a first_name is a number. :-
<snap-l> P
<snap-l> Also, screw Excel spreadsheets.
<nullspace> venturi's do an even better job, that way you don't get dirty fish water in your mouth
<nullspace> why was I an hour back? ehhh need more coffee
<snap-l> rick_h: Thanks! It's working.
<snap-l> Now to take over the world.
<ColonelPanic001> I've used IETeste, years ago. It worked, more or less
<rick_h> snap-l: awesome, glad that helped
<snap-l> I love it when I get too far into a particular paradigm
<rick_h> nullspace: so the python you hook up to the sink and start that water, it pulls/primes the vacuum
<rick_h> nullspace: so yea, water in your mouth == bad
<rick_h> snap-l: ?
<snap-l> "Gee, why doesn't isinstance([var that might be None], None)" work? :)
<rick_h> oh heh
<snap-l> <- dumbass
<rick_h> yea, in general isinstance is very very bad
<rick_h> so should be RARELY used
<rick_h> more want to play with the duck typing nature
<rick_h> if possible
<snap-l> Right, but sqlalchemy gets really pissy when you pass an int to a String
<rick_h> yea, but you're checking something is none?
<snap-l> Bitches that there's no encode method
<snap-l> Right, because none also doesn't have an encode method for string
<rick_h> right, but you can str(Int) and get it an encode method :)
<rick_h> hmm, right but if you set a default on the str column, and pass it None, it should kick in and use that?
<snap-l> rick_h: Ahem, yes, but I need to know if this is necessary.
<rick_h> snap-l: right, that's what try: except is for
<rick_h> that leaves it open more. If you check isinstance you're limiting only to Strings, but lots of things can implement .encode() that aren't a String class
<snap-l> Right, but Python can cope with the rest of them. :)
<snap-l> Python / SQLAlchemy
<jrwren> i got asked waht are the fundamental datatypes in python... i had no idea. I said i dunno, int, float, string, unicode is separate?, list, hash.
<jrwren> hehe, i'm nub
<nullspace> rick_h: it's always about python with you
<nullspace> :)
<rick_h> nullspace: :)
<nullspace> snap-l: arn't ORMs fun? everything is now an object
<brousch> what else would it be?
<nullspace> a PITA
<nullspace> or a giant SQL statment
<snap-l> nullspace: Actually, the amount of heavy lifting this thing does far outweighs type-conversion work-arounds. :)
<snap-l> I'll gladly write wrappers if it means I don't have to write a SQL join statement from hell. :)
<nullspace> I agree
<rick_h> the coersion stuff is just because you don't have good control on the input
<nullspace> I <3 my ORM
<rick_h> which is just going to happen
<jrwren> nullspace: you using hibernate
<snap-l> I have had my lead-filled jelly donut for the year.
<nullspace> cayanne
<_stink_> my wife bought a package labeled "cherry" paczki from meijer yesterday... turns out they are all filled with not cherry, but some bizarre cheesy stuff
<_stink_> i'm aware my description sounds pretty disgusting
<_stink_> and they're not half bad
<snap-l> _stink_: I love the cheese paczki
<_stink_> i would rather have cherry, though.
<snap-l> Got one with filled with apple
<_stink_> yeah, i was surprised it wasn't bad
<snap-l> tastes like a hostess apple pie
<_stink_> heh
<_stink_> for health!
<rick_h> my wife is on a mission for prune ones
<rick_h> I've been giving her a hard time about it for days
<_stink_> haha
<snap-l> Today I vow to be happy and positive. Just as soon as I gut some random motherfucker for breathing. Then it's all unicorn shit and handjobs. -- Stephen Blackmoore
<rick_h> evidently she found one other person that loves the idea of a prune one and the two of them have been calling places since friday
<nullspace> I prefer the blueberry paczki
<_stink_> mm, that does sound good.
<snap-l> rick_h: The idea of prune paczkis is about as appealing as the cherry-nougat Whitman candies.
<snap-l> ie: you can have my share.
<nullspace> _stink_: so are these the local kind or the mass producted kind?
<nullspace> snap-l: how about peach paczki?
<_stink_> nullspace: er, whatever meijer carries
<snap-l> nullspace: Knock yourself out. I'm not a fan of peaches
<_stink_> might be local
<_stink_> but probably not 'authentic'
<nullspace> _stink_: father in-law picked up some from a polish bakery where they speak broken english, tasty stuff
<jrwren> mmm... cheesy stuff.
<jrwren> its like a cheese danish, but in paczki form.
<_stink_> nullspace: that's the way to go.
<_stink_> yeah, i guess it was just like a cheese danish.
<_stink_> good call.
<nullspace> _stink_: seriously, there is no excuse for us to suffer non authentic with hamramick being so close
<jrwren> i was just saying that it MUCH more celebrated and better over in detroit, because of way more polish people.
<jrwren> here in ann arbor, its practically forgotten.
<jrwren> seems like someone would always stop in hamtrammik to get some and bring 'em in, when I worked in oakland county.
<nullspace> jrwren: should pick up some coffee flavored porter and just resign to the fact little will be accomplished today
<snap-l> jrwren: Well, it's not an hour's drive away both ways.
<snap-l> jrwren: That, and you'd have to give up a parking spot.
<_stink_> shit, WSU is like 5 minutes away from Hammytrammy
<snap-l> _stink_: And miss out on Olympia or Epicurius Place?
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> or Byblos - now with *two* locations!
<snap-l> God, Epicurius probably has the same ketchup on the tables from when I was there
<_stink_> that building survived the big demolition along warren
 * snap-l does miss the Potato PLace.
<_stink_> i should go there more.
<snap-l> good gumbo
<snap-l> _stink_: I think they'd need a hazmat team to demolish that building
<_stink_> snap-l: what years were you around here?
<snap-l> all of that greek grease
<snap-l> 1993-1994
<_stink_> had the Welcome Center been built yet?
<_stink_> probbaly not, then
<snap-l> No, likely not
<_stink_> was Z's on the corner of Woodward/Warren then?
<snap-l> No
<_stink_> aight, just wondered.
<snap-l> the student union had a Friar Tucks, Tubbys, and Little Caesars
<snap-l> and an arcade
<_stink_> sounds better then than it is now.
<snap-l> With Samurai Showdown 2
<snap-l> The company introduced a new 8 gigabyte Nook tablet on Tuesday for $199 and lowered the price for the Nook Color to $169 from $199. The first version of the tablet cost $249.
<snap-l> Considering you can only load 1GB of user content on-board, this is not a bad deal
<brousch> sd card
<snap-l> Yeah, but I've yet to fill it
<brousch> and cyanogenmod that thing
<snap-l> brousch: Getting closer.
<rick_h> heh, well someone is going for the "overboard title of the year" award: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/pzjay/nodejs_is_stupid_and_if_you_use_it_so_are_you/
<rick_h> oh man, and painful to watch...don't know I'll make it through
<rick_h> and he really comes across as serious, so not getting any humor vibes out of it
<snap-l> I think there's a point where people will rebel against anything that's considered trendy
<snap-l> "I can't breathe anymore because too many people ar doing it."
<snap-l> Node.js is built on lies
<snap-l> Wow, way to frame an argument
<snap-l> Javascript is slow? Maybe back in 1995
<rick_h> if the guy was giving a mug talk, I'd have walked out and left. I kept waiting for a punchline but never came
<snap-l> WEll, his basic assumptions are stupid
<snap-l> God, you could level any of his arguments against any language.
<snap-l> "Hello, nice video. I couldn't find your arguments. Where can I find them?ï»¿ Thanks"
<snap-l> Made it 2/3 of the way before I figured the bits could be better used for internet porn
<rick_h> yes, I can save you that trouble
<snap-l> Apparently he's a SEO douche too.
<snap-l> Also enjoys taking candy from children and punching baby seals
<rick_h> hah
<brousch> so he helps to fight childhood obesity and is nicer than the people who club baby seals?
<brousch> not so bad
<snap-l> Now do you nicely punch a baby seal?
<snap-l> Apparently you have some life-skills that I currently lack
<brousch> see, they freak out when you approach, so you punch them just hard enough to daze them. then you can hide them from the seal clubbers
<brousch> this is a canadian thing. where's tjagoda to back me up?
<_stink_> you guys seen this?  i'm probably way behind the ball... http://devsigh.com
<brousch> this ubuntu on android thing is what i dreamed of 7 years ago. a little box you carry around in your pocket and plug into monitors for a full desktop
<snap-l> http://devsigh.com/sigh/44
<brousch> i imagined using NX on a server somewhere with a little terminal client, but ok
<_stink_> this one is my favorite so far: http://devsigh.com/sigh/225
<greg-g> man I love this 'old' x200s keyboard/screen/build quality
<greg-g> so, some people don't use gnome-do: can you explain how they are productive by not?
<brousch> strange. i'm trying to dowload a big file from SF and it keeps killing my wifi
<brousch> not my laptop's wifi, the wifi router's
<greg-g> too much ganje in the packets?
<greg-g> oh, you mean SourceForge ;)
<greg-g> s/ganje/ganja/
<rick_h> greg-g: gmrun
<greg-g> rick_h: but, can I search for a filename/folder?
<rick_h> greg-g: no, just a shell to run apps/etc
<brousch> why is there a goatse at the bottom of this ubuntu page? http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android
<greg-g> brousch: :)
<rick_h> if I need to search for anything it's locate and workit to the rescue
<greg-g> rick_h: yeah, unfortunately, that is about 70% of my gnome-do usage after the first 10 minutes of a reboot
<greg-g> bah, if only. mine is gnome-do + LibreOffice ;)
<_stink_> yeah, i fall on locate/find . a lot
<greg-g> brousch: Canonical designers having a joke on us
<brousch> i blame rick_h
<rick_h> good plan!
<snap-l> I usually put everything in to a folder under known locations
<snap-l> projects for coding stuff, documents for writing stuff, and reference for stuff I'll want to refer later on
<greg-g> snap-l: right, but quickly getting to the location so you can get to a specific file is slow if you just <envoke>nautilus or whatever
<snap-l> cd projects/ope[tab]
 * greg-g is a bit more document driven than you crazy coders :P
<snap-l> Also, nautilus does text complete
<snap-l> Click on a folder, and type
<snap-l> Now that I've said that, it'll be removed two releases from now
<greg-g> zing!
<snap-l> Well, seems like anytime I get used to something, it changes in 50% good, and 50% WTF ways.
<snap-l> Like 11.10 no longer lets you use / to search for a particular path
<snap-l> (nautilus)
<snap-l> Bah, and just as soon as I said that, I tried it, and it made me a liar
<rick_h> thunar ftw
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, I think that got added back
<rick_h> it was removed at one point, but the power users ranted and railed
<snap-l> It's handy as hell
<snap-l> esp for hidden directories
<rick_h> right
<snap-l> greg-g: Now that we've completely talked around your use-case, are you good? :)
<rick_h> lol
<greg-g> snap-l: nope! ;)
<snap-l> Awesome
<snap-l> np: Eluveitie - Uxellodunon
<greg-g> actually, I'm just annoyed right now that gnome-do isn't being envoked consistently in Debian
<snap-l> I think since DBO started working on Unity, Gnome Do got a lot less attention
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> and RAOF
<greg-g> Christian Hales-Something
<snap-l> Was that the gent that we did the laptop-drive for?
<greg-g> hmmmm
<greg-g> maybe?
<rick_h> thought it was DBO
<greg-g> there's been a few of those in the past 2 years I can't keep them straight
<rick_h> well DBO was a laptop right?
<snap-l> Yeah I don't remember offhand
<snap-l> All I remember was jcastro mentioning something, and suddenly I was typing my credentials into Paypal
<snap-l> he has that effect on people.
<greg-g> dangerous
<jrwren> watching that javascript video... this guy is an idiot.
<jrwren> hahaha... doesn't understand what blocking is. LOLOLOL
<snap-l> Yeah, I thought that was precious
<ColonelPanic001> wat
<ColonelPanic001> blocking is what you do when you park your car infront of another car
<brousch> hahahahah awesome
<brousch> i'm running Lubuntu on my nook color
<snap-l> And?
<brousch> and it works
<brousch> some chroot+vnc magic
<brousch> heh, thunderbird and gimp included
<brousch> i think it's ubuntu 10.10. let's see if an update destroys it
<brousch> wow, kind of hard on the battery
<_stink_> heh
<snap-l> Considering normal Ubuntu can be hard on batteries, I'm not surprised.
<brousch> this is actually a pretty nice way to run it. i get the regular android taskbar, keyboard, and apps along with ubuntu
<brousch> no silly gnome software keyboard that's a PITA
<brousch> though i don't think it has much of an advvantage over VNCing to a remote server and using dropbox to sync files
<jrwren> so are you running lubuntu on your nook or just a vnc client?
<brousch> lubuntu
<brousch> but you use vnc to view it
<brousch> it runs on android
<_stink_> like the UI runs on android?
<_stink_> on an X session or something?
<jrwren> VNC to a virtual X
<brousch> http://goo.gl/UP7Vo
<brousch> it runs a full lubuntu inside a chroot
<brousch> but you have to use vnc to view the GUI
<_stink_> dizang
<jrwren> but still just the android-linux kernel.
<jrwren> ha, that is pretty cool.
<_stink_> now fire up eclipse inside lubuntu
<brousch> oh geez
<brousch> _stink_: hey, i guess you could develop android apps on android that way!
<_stink_> o/
<_stink_> so meta.
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/screenshot-1329861965965.png
<brousch> imagine running the android emulator inside ubuntu on android
<brousch> that has to be incredibly painful
<_stink_> hahaha
<_stink_> i love it
<brousch> i think i would get about 1-2 hours of usage out of this before the battery ran out
<brousch> maybe 3
<brousch> is this how the new ubuntu on android from canonical works?
<brousch> the speed is OK even on this single CPU 800MHz, but it's Lubuntu
<brousch> time to run
<jcastro> hey rick_h
<rick_h> jcastro: yep
<jcastro> is there such thing as a vesa to vesa extender?
<jcastro> basically .... my arms are as high as they will go
<rick_h> vesa?
<rick_h> ah
<jcastro> but I need another siz inches to raise the panels
<rick_h> oh hmmm, ugh.
<jcastro> so I was thinking, a long plate, with holes
<jcastro> and I just mount it higher.
<rick_h> how will that get them taller?
<rick_h> you mean closer to your?
<jcastro> no, taller
<jcastro> like, instead of mounting the arm right to the back of the panel
<rick_h> no, the only thing I could think of would be to bolt a raised shelf on top of the desk
<jcastro> it's another bracker
<rick_h> and them move the arms to that shelf
<rick_h> os like, on my old ikea desk it had a small shelf 8" or so over the main large desk surface
<rick_h> I stuck my arms to that
<rick_h> shoot, you could build a simple u-shape with 3 blocks and c-clamp the blocks to the desk and the arms to the top of the new thing
<rick_h> jcastro: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1fr_oZ-fT3tcteg7HhslFK0btdUQ6rZXHwHGOUA9A8_g/edit
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> nice artwork
<rick_h> hey, it's what you get from the kitchen counter while I'm making dinner :P
<jcastro> this bracket has to exist
<jcastro> there's no way every single monitor arm is exactly the right size
<rick_h> I think most people change monitor arms
<rick_h> get one that has more height limitation, that's the issue with these is that they're cheaper, but not as flexible
<jcastro> hey rick
<jcastro> rick_h: you have an aeron right?
<brousch> ah, cool, he has a 12.04 image in the works http://linuxonandroid.blogspot.com/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-22
<brousch> this thing is updating very slowly
<brousch> like it's running on a 800MHz cpu
<nixternal> anyone ever just do a dist-upgrade from an EOL version to whatever the newest is?
<nixternal> a guy called me this morning freaking out about his server being down. i went over there and to my surprise it was kubuntu 6.10 (edgy)
<nixternal> you can't even upgrade to 7.04 when it lets you know that it is available. i don't want to do a fresh install because i am lazy, but it looks like i might have to
<brousch> i don't think you can. don't they remove the repos at EOL?
<nixternal> good news is i only charged him $500 for the emergency call & he is now a permanent client :)
<brousch> maybe you can do it with each CD?
<nixternal> brousch: yeah, you can't even do the recommended upgrade that ubuntu recommends because the recommended upgrade is also EOL
<brousch> find a 7.10 cd?
<nixternal> brousch: yeah, screw that noise. it would be quicker to just fresh install
<brousch> yeah, i assumed you wanted upgrade because there was some asshattery preventing a clean install
<nixternal> and i can install ubuntu-server on there and not some freakin' ubuntu or kubuntu crap.
<brousch> kubuntu is the bizomb
<nixternal> there is a bunch of asshattery, but blueprint should help me work that out
<nixternal> i gotta go get some beer. damnit i hate being empty
<rick_h> jcastro: no, I got the stand up desk vs the aeron chair
<jcastro> if nixternal comes back someone tell him about old-releases.ubuntu.com
<rick_h> k
<brousch> is that just the CDs?
<brousch> ah, i see, releases are CDs and ubuntu is repos
<snap-l> YUI community superstar Eamon Brosnan (aka mosen) has been working on a build framework called buildy that he hopes will provide an alternative to Apacheâs Ant. Hereâs the sexy part: itâs written in JavaScript on Node.js, so for frontenders, that makes assembling and maintaining build processes a snap.
<snap-l> I think my eye started twitching when I read that
<_stink_> sexy!
<brousch> wow. weird. i am trying 'apt-get remove --purge gnome*' in this ubuntu on android thing, and that command makes it want to install kde as well as remove gnome
<greg-g> wait, you downloaded ubuntu on android?
<greg-g> what they announced today?
<brousch> so that command ends up installing 85MB more than what is already there
<greg-g> lolz
<brousch> greg-g: no, using http://linuxonandroid.blogspot.com/
<greg-g> ahhhh
<brousch> and `apt-get remove --purge gnome* kde*` ends up installing 115MB more
<brousch> i must be too tired to make sense of this
<_stink_> is a metapackage trying to make up for the loss of a requirement?
<_stink_> like ubuntu-desktop or something
<snap-l> _stink_: Shhh... let him think he's nuts. :)
<rick_h> heh
<_stink_> oops
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning
<snap-l> Happy Birthday, rick_h!
<rick_h> snap-l: thanks!
<mydogsnameisrudy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjF1bG5LUcs
<nullspace> rick_h: happy birthday
<rick_h> nullspace: thanks
<brousch> it's rick_h's birthday?
<rick_h> yep, party
<brousch> congratulations on surviving another year!
<brousch> big party?
<rick_h> no, took the day off, got a couple of things this omrning then going to hit up a fav lunch spot, hack on things,
<rick_h> small pie party this weekend
 * rick_h went for the apple pie over the cake this year
<brousch> sounds healthier
<rick_h> naw, don't think so
<rick_h> but the wife makes a mean home made apple pie and not much cause to make them much
<Blazeix> brousch: grlug has a segway-based autonomous drinkbot? cool.
<brousch> it is just starting
<brousch> right now all we have is a partially-disassembled segway with a weak battery and some ideas ;)
<snap-l> hah
<rick_h> that's a start
<brousch> i think they're leaning towards a raspberrypi and opencv/simplecv
<jrwren> rick_h: happy birthday!
<rick_h> jrwren: ty
<snap-l> pro-tip: If you want an electronic version of a no-starch book that you've purchased, it's cheaper to register the book on O'reilly, and then pat $4.99 to "upgrade" to the eBook version
<snap-l> nostarch doesn't offer this on their site.
<snap-l> Did that with Eloquent Javascript.
<brousch> oh now there's a scary checkbox. i'm installing virtualbox on windows and it has 'Always trust software from "Oracle Corporation".'
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> SHouldn't have to ask you.  You should implicitly trust Oracle.
<snap-l> They only have your best interests at heart.
<snap-l> Grrr... y'know, if Monday wasn't a holiday, USPS would be bringing me goodies today.
<snap-l> feh
<brousch> damn presidents
<snap-l> http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2012/02/adobe-and-google-partnering-for-flash-player-on-linux.html
<snap-l> How much do you want to wager that Firefox adopts Pepper.
<Blazeix> according to some random guy in another irc channel i'm in, they've already said they won't.
<snap-l> I hope they have a stellar reason for why not
<snap-l> Of course, if it means we can finally write off Flash, I'm all for it, but I think that day will never arrive.
<brousch> never?
<snap-l> Let me rephrase
<snap-l> on that day, Satan will be skating to work.
<snap-l> (h/t Red Dwarf)
<Blazeix> it'll be interesting to see what happens with http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html
<jrwren> wtf is pepper?
<snap-l> jrwren: That's the API that Google and Adobe are using for Flash 11.2+
<snap-l> PPAPI
<jrwren> oh, a better NSAPI ?
<jrwren> does chromeos comes with flash player?
<snap-l> better is relative. :)
<brousch> jrwren: yes
<jrwren> shit, seems to me like flash could almost be written as a NCAL
<jrwren> err.. NaCL
<brousch> not sure about chromiumos
<jrwren> i guess webcam/mic wouldn't work with nacl.
<snap-l> jrwren: Something tells me that's the gist.
<snap-l> http://code.google.com/p/ppapi/wiki/Concepts
<snap-l> Blazeix: Ugh
<snap-l> Something tells me that Encrypted Media will get abused fiercely.
<snap-l> Somewhere a font producer, and a porn producer just got tingly in the bathing suit area.
<greg-g> ef that encrypted media shit
<snap-l> greg-g: Agreed
<greg-g> isn't ppapi just chrome's flash integration point?
<snap-l> Looks like some Javascript hooks
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> ef that as well (the lack of non-chrome linux flash support)
<snap-l> Honestly, it doesn't bother me too much
<greg-g> seriously, day, why are you making me so angry already?! It isn't even 9am yet!
<snap-l> Frankly, the sooner Flash becomes the Shockwave of the INternet, the happier I'll be
<greg-g> I mean, sure, I would love to avoid flash as much as the next freetard, but dang, sometimes Vimeo has some good stuff (including some recorded stuff at CC for staff only) and it only does h264 or flash
<snap-l> Oh, I think h264 made nice with GOogle too
<greg-g> snap-l!!!!!!!!!!
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> "Microsoft H.264 plug-in For Google Chrome Finily Released ..."
<jrwren> isn't "safe streaming" a huge feature of flash already?
<snap-l> I totally trust this article title.
<jrwren> its not exactly encrypted media, but similar?
<snap-l> jrwren: It's about control
<jrwren> they already have that.
<jrwren> same as silverlight and MS and netflix DRM shit
<snap-l> and frankly, until HTML5 adopts some form of protected streaming, no media company that currently uses flash is going to support it
<jrwren> agreed
<jrwren> they could do it in html5 now.
<jrwren> write the crypto in JS :)
<snap-l> We'd have a better chance of seeing President Newt Gingrich's Moon Base Alpha than of any HTML5 Video crypto with JS.
<jrwren> would be a fun little project though :)
<jrwren> or even NACL.
<jrwren> I'd love for FF to adopt NACL
<jrwren> anotehr fun little project tehre.
<snap-l> Uh oh, we made greg-g angry
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/q088e/oracle_gives_java_6_extended_period_of_life/c3tnqd2
<greg-g> great, so I get to keep java while the DRM brigade continues to make my life annoying
<snap-l> greg-g: Read that comment. :)
<Blazeix> snap-l: well played
<snap-l> ;)
 * snap-l waits for his eventual ban from /r/java
<jrwren> LOL.
<jrwren> i'm upvoting
<snap-l> jrwren: Thanks. :)
<ColonelPanic001> wat
 * ColonelPanic001 upboats snap-l
<snap-l> danke++
<snap-l> Man, mysql is slow
<snap-l> indexed 2 million records. Took < 2 1/2 hours
<rick_h> hmm, what kind of indexes?
<rick_h> I never trusted the server setup though at morpace
<greg-g> < or > ?
<snap-l> greg-g: less than
<snap-l> rick_h: Local machine, with a bunch of indexes
<rick_h> snap-l: ah
<snap-l> date index is what I'm allegedly using
<snap-l> Doing a delete that's currently taking non-trivial time
<snap-l> and pining for postgresql
<jrwren> snap-l: squeezeslave is FAR more impressive :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah
<snap-l> I use softsqueeze for streams that squeezeslave can't handle
<snap-l> usually low-bitrate ones like WRCJ and TWiT
<jrwren> squeeze slave can't handle some?
<jrwren> wtf is up with this protocol?
<snap-l> They sound like chipmunks on speed
<snap-l> It's not the protocol
<jrwren> all this stuff is open source, this stuff needs love.
<snap-l> just some daft assumptions
<snap-l> assumes 44.1Khz
<snap-l> but they come across as 22Khz
<snap-l> or something stupid like that
<snap-l> and you can't transcode it to make it work properly.
<snap-l> It's a known bug
<jrwren> i'm not interested in transcoding.
<snap-l> Also softsqueeze has some more features
<snap-l> like the display and such
<jrwren> all of my library is ripped at exactly waht I want.
<jrwren> i'd really like an ios client so I can run on my phone :)
<snap-l> but the fact that it's Java makes it a HUGE PITA
<jrwren> i didn't see any.
<snap-l> iPeng
<jrwren> but if slave is opensource that could work.
<jrwren> iPeng eh?
<snap-l> Has an in-app purchase to make it a client player
<snap-l> It's the best, bar none.
<jrwren> ah.
<jrwren> i'm free only :p
<snap-l> jrwren: Open thine wallet
<jrwren> i'll make a free player.
<jrwren> with ads.
<snap-l> jrwren: Knock yourself out
<snap-l> Until you finish it, though, there's iPeng
<snap-l> jrwren: And that in-app purchase is on top of the app price
<snap-l> so the app is like $10, and the in-app purchase is $5
<snap-l> Which raised my hackles, but trust me, it works.
<jrwren> more fun to write myself :p
<rick_h> test please and let me know what's not clear http://docs.bmark.us/en/latest/install.html
<jrwren> snap-l: any tips on getting it to scrobble?
<snap-l> Haven't played with that
<snap-l> believe you just enable the plugin and let it have a go
<jrwren> right, but that isn't working.
<snap-l> You sure it's not last.fm lagging?
<jrwren> pretty sure.
<jrwren> i've played many many songs and none show.
<jrwren> other players it shows within seconds
<jrwren> i might be nub.
<jrwren> "Note: You must also enable Audioscrobbler for each player. Click on the Player tab and then select the Last.fm Audioscrobbler item for each player you want to scrobble.  "
<snap-l> ;)
<jrwren> yes! working. awesome.
<jrwren> snap-l: you are right. it does get better.
<snap-l> jrwren: What's awesome is how it handles multiple players
<jrwren> i've not explored that yet.
<jrwren> but it looks good.
<snap-l> /home/craig/bin/squeezeslave -D -w 70
<jrwren> oh -D looks fun.
<snap-l> /home/craig/bin/squeezeslave -w 70 -R -D --mac 00:00:00:00:00:08
<snap-l> That's what I use between home and work
<snap-l> give it a different mac address, it's a different player
<jrwren> cool
<jrwren> interesting, but why?
<jrwren> to what end?
<snap-l> Well, for starters, work's set to transcode to 128Kbps MP3
<snap-l> home is set for high quality
<jrwren> ah!
<jrwren> sweet.
<jrwren> good call.
<snap-l> because I don't have enough bits between the two to handle it
<snap-l> And you can set up multiple players for multiple zones in the house
<snap-l> different playlists for each (which are saved as .m3u files)
<jrwren> right, i saw that synchronize feature.
<jrwren> looks cool
<snap-l> So if you want to listen to Orbital, and your wife wants to listen to Orb, you're covered.
<snap-l> But yeah, that's where it gets really fun with ssh tunnels and the like
<snap-l> If the logitech media server ripped discs, I'd boot Banshee to the curb in a heartbeat.
<snap-l> Well, and downloaded Amazon files. ;)
<jrwren> i'm running it in tunnel.
<jrwren> just use cdex to rip... oh oops.
<jrwren> cdparanoia ?
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, but Banshee / Soundjuicer do some nice things that make me happy with how they rip
<snap-l> integrating with Musicbrainz for instance
<snap-l> (yes, as much as I've bitched about Musicbrainz, I love it over FreeDB)
<snap-l> I don't know how the data for FreeDB can be so completely blown to hell
<jrwren> what do they use underhood?
<jrwren> are they as good as EAC?
<snap-l> jrwren: Never used EAC, so not sure
<snap-l> but I've thrown known-bad discs at it (ones with manufacturing errors) and it's managed to make hay from them.
<snap-l> so much so that I can't tell where the errors are
<snap-l> Banshee, not Soundjuicer
<snap-l> Soundjuicer has some trouble with error correction
<snap-l> or at least it did in the past. Not sure if they use something different now
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> i just recall EAC being very good.
<jrwren> and tehre being good reasons to use it over others.
<snap-l> Right, jitter, drop-outs, and all that jazz
<jrwren> right.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-23
<snap-l> I'm chuckling listening to Mac Break Weekly
<snap-l> they're asking for a "pro switch" to pull off the consumer crap
<snap-l> and make the OS more what they had before.
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> yea, I've definitely lost much of any desire to try out a a mac again
<brousch> speaking of apple fanboys
<rick_h> brousch: give the bookie mobile another go and let me know what you htink
<rick_h> make sure ot wipe the cache
<rick_h> chrome starts zoomed out :( gah
<rick_h> might have to test out that remote debugging stuff sooner than I thought
<rick_h> but seems to do ok on the original browser
<jrwren> snap-l: what do you mean pro switch pull off consumer crap?
<snap-l> jrwren: Basically keep things like filesystems and such.
<jrwren> i don't get it.
<jrwren> do they mean the app store standbox?
<snap-l> Among other things
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> How goes the day?
<rick_h> ugh, sleepy
<snap-l> Yeah, same mere.
<snap-l> so sleepy that I make typo
<brousch> rick_h: i tried the mobile bookie. i think it's actually too big now
<brousch> :P
<rick_h_> so, letting your ec2 ebs volume run out of disk space is bad mmmkay?
<brousch> i thought they could grow infinitely
<rick_h_> they can, but they're defined to size X
<rick_h_> and if X fills up, oops
<rick_h_> you have to shut down, expand it, boot up, resize it
<brousch> dangit unity
<brousch> i updated the ubuntu 10.10 on my nook color. it literally took 2 days. i go to login with gnome and get the "your hardware ain't good enough" message
<brousch> there is no login screen to select gnome classic on this
<rick_h_> heh, cmdline ftw? How can you ctrl-alt-f2?
<brousch> i'll dig into it when i have time
<brousch> can probably muck with his vnc server and startup script to get something going
<brousch> but yeah, i have a command line i can use
<snap-l> brousch: That's pretty cool
<brousch> i think i can remove lubuntu and gnome and unity and install kubuntu into it
<brousch> maybe xubuntu
<snap-l> brousch: I would like to point out that thinking you could get UNity 3D running on a nook was a little ambitious. :)
<brousch> i just did a do-release-upgrade
<brousch> i forgot that unity replaced regular gnome in 11.04
<snap-l> brousch: How could you forget something like that?
<snap-l> It's literally marked on my calendar
<snap-l> 11.04. Never forget.
<brousch> i took that pill for forgetting traumatic events
<snap-l> Precise Beta freeze 1 is coming up later today.
<snap-l> "I recently got pygame working on my Kobo Touch, an ereader running Linux.
<snap-l> I think I just felt something tingle in my bathing-suit area.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> and productivity plummets
<snap-l> funny enough, I did while I was writing that. Got two twitter replies. :)
<brousch> ug, this thing is a mess
<brousch> vnc to a linux server seems more practical
<snap-l> brousch: Yes
<snap-l> It may have more power than a 486, but the interfaces on tablet devices don't lend themselves to Linux.
<brousch> nah, the problem is that this is bundled into a .img file i haven't been able to dig into
<brousch> and it's 3.5GB so even moving it around is annoying
<snap-l> I swear, this recruiting company is dysfunctional
<snap-l> Third person, third call
<snap-l> Please to be updating your records
<snap-l> "I specialize in IT recruiting" <- No, you specialize in keyword searches.
<brousch> currently installing ubuntu 10.04 on the NookColor using http://goo.gl/ubawW
<brousch> same sort of thing as the other one, but you can pick ubuntu LTS or debian
<brousch> also, 10.04 with gnome2 is the best ubuntu evar
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> i disagree.
<jrwren> current ubuntu is always the best ubuntu ever.
<brousch> no
<Scott_firebeta> Fiesty Fawn FTW
<brousch> LTS FTW
<Scott_firebeta> my current home PC came with this:  http://origin.arstechnica.com/journals/linux.media/350/dell_ubuntu_cd.jpg
<Scott_firebeta> 12.04 won't fit on a single cd? :(
<snap-l> I think this is the first release that won't fit on a CD.
<brousch> i like this linux on android installer. it is actually installing instead of just moving a big .img file
<nullspace> 12.04 scroll bars are an improvement on the 11.04-11.10 versions
<brousch> ug, the unity scroll bars. don't remind me
<nullspace> ug unity, don't remind me
<jrwren> what is this news about single CD?
<jrwren> was it announced?
<jrwren> or is it just a nightly that doesn't?
 * jrwren testdrive updates.
<Scott_firebeta> I saw it on wikipedia
<jrwren> bah
<jrwren> lies.
<jrwren> probably ubuntu haters :p
<snap-l> I'd love to know why this SAX parser is seasoning my data with '\n          '
<jrwren> its 709MB right now, that will probably fit in an ISO
<jrwren> err, fit on a CD
<brousch> oh man, you can pick pretty much any version of debian or ubuntu with that android installer. it just defaults to 10.04 for ubuntu
<brousch> up through natty
<Scott_firebeta> brousch: are you using the $2.49 Ubuntu Installer from the marketplace?
<Wolfger> Chrysler sucks. Blocking all my http-to-irc sites.
<Wolfger> How's things?
<smoser> rick_h_, (or anyone)...
<smoser> http://pythonadventures.wordpress.com/tag/ipdb/
<smoser> 'import ipdb as pdb'
<smoser> how would i do that on ubuntu?
<smoser> i'm hoping i can without easyinstall
<rick_h_> smoser: heh, if it's not packaged the easiest way is with easyinstall/pip
<rick_h_> else you could download/extract/setup.py
<rick_h_> as long as you had all the deps
<smoser> i just dont like /usr/local
<rick_h_> smoser: if you don't need ipdb you can just pdb since it's built in
<smoser> right.
<rick_h_> smoser: you bootstrapping an app in a venv or something?
<rick_h_> smoser: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7465445/how-to-install-python-modules-without-root-access
<rick_h_> if you can play with the python path for what you need
<smoser> rick_h_, thanks. it seems as easy as
<smoser>  * git clone https://github.com/gotcha/ipdb.git
<smoser>  * PYTHONPATH=$PWD/ipdb ...
<rick_h_> smoser: as long as the setup.py doesn't have deps/is pretty bare yea
<smoser> thanks rick_h_
<smoser> that seems good enough for ipdb.
<smoser> i'll package that next cycle.
<rick_h_> ok, I laughed on the inside http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/q2oly/sourceforge_doing_it_wrong_%E0%B2%A0_%E0%B2%A0/
<snap-l> That's so stupid
<snap-l> Machine Learning for Hackers--New from O'Reilly Media
<rick_h_> k?
<snap-l> Hah, already bought it
<snap-l> I'm suck a loser.
<snap-l> s/suck/such/
<snap-l> O'Reilly sent an e-mail
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> yea, we bought it when the had the half off dela on it
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781934356791.do?imm_mid=07f51a&cmp=em-orm-pr-pb-developers-code
<snap-l> DOes this book seem pretty stupid to anyone else?
<Aubury> Seems a bit of a waste of a book
<brousch> no way. it has 50 nuggets. that's more than you can get at mcdonald's
<jrwren> Wolfger: ssh home, use irssi. chrysler can't suck that bad :p
<snap-l> jrwren: Chrysler sucks that bad
<snap-l> Seriously, they have the worst nanny-filtration I've ever seen at a company
<snap-l> At least at Ford you could get access to Telnet if your manager was so inclined.
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: in a couple of weeks, prepare to meet your doom
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: I know I still have an IGS account
<snap-l> not sure about KGS
<snap-l> (really hope they're just the same thing rebranded)
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't used IGS, I don't think, but I can make one. I'm not that picky
<snap-l> OK
<snap-l> Reason I use IGS is all of the clients support it
<ColonelPanic001> KSG is just what I'm used to, but I don't really care much
<jrwren> run SSH listening on 443 ;]  connect.  #win.
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, works for me
<jrwren> gets through pretty much every rediculous nanny-filteration system
<snap-l> jrwren: hope they don't do deep packet inspection #win
<jrwren> how can you deep inspect SSL?
<jrwren> oh you can't!
<ColonelPanic001> Bruce Scheier does deep packet inspection of SSL. In his head.
<snap-l> http://www.terranpro.org/Tunnel%20SSH%20over%20SSL%20or%20HTTPS.html
<jrwren> unless its a corproate owned machine and they install a trusted cert on it.
<jrwren> snap-l: you realize that is what I suggested, just documented :p
<snap-l> jrwren: Yes
<jrwren> and OVERLy documented.
<jrwren> you really don't need to make it that cmoplex.
<snap-l> thought you just meant putting SSH on port 443, not tunneling SSH over SSL
<snap-l> and frankly it might be better to just find another company to work at than deal with this. :)
<brousch> ssh on 443 on your home server sounds reasonable to me
<jrwren> yes, I mean run ssh on 443, so that you can get OUT, once you can get an ssh connection out, you can get any tcp connection out, we know this :)
<jrwren> sudo /sbin/iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 443 -j REDIRECT --to-port 22  #see how easy that was.  Now connect to "myhouse:443" WIHT YOUR SSH CLIENT :)
<jrwren> I only know this shit because I did the same thing to get out of GM.
<jrwren> GM/Chrysler/Ford... :)
<snap-l> Chrysler's nanny-wall has become much worse since I was there
<jrwren> even still, its not likely they are intercepting SSL.
<snap-l> I'd be surprised if they even let 443 connections work. :)
<jrwren> O_O
<jrwren> well that would be a tough one then.
<jrwren> why bohter with web at all tehn.
<snap-l> "EVERYTHING SHOULD BE IN THE CLEAR. YOU SHOULDN'T NEED ANY SITE YOU CAN LOG INTO"
<snap-l> Too bad it's not Daimler Chrysler, or I'd start singing "VERBOTENLAND" by Hanzel und Gretyl.
<nullspace> snap-l: you could go through DNS
<nullspace> it's painful but doable
<snap-l> nullspace: How so?
<nullspace> OzymanDNS
<nullspace> it's tunnel ssh over dns
<snap-l> That's messed up
<nullspace> yeah it's slow too
<snap-l> I'll bet.
<nullspace> but they could log dns and they might flag unusal amount of traffic
<snap-l> I'm sure no network admin in the world would question a flood of UDP packets coming from your machine.
<brousch> bah. no one will notice him streaming HD pr0n through dns
<nullspace> brousch: you'd be surprised
<snap-l> brousch: Hell, doesn't need to be HD pr0n. Just negotiating keys would be significant.
<nullspace> people have to read logs for them to be of any use
<snap-l> nullspace: All of the network guys I've dealt with would notice something like this
<nullspace> so many companies keep logs but do little to anything unless sirens start blaring
<snap-l> Uriah Welcome would smell the traffic spike
<snap-l> He's my go-to image of the omniscient network admin
<nullspace> ok next idea. Use your phone
<snap-l> nullspace: Chrysler has the perfect natural defense for that too: lead glass.
<snap-l> It's like they thought of everything.
<snap-l> ;)
<nullspace> snap-l: ok new idea, write a malcious pdf that gives you a reverse shell, and route all your traffic through their box
<nullspace> I meant your bosses computer
<nullspace> sorry I have a headache and I'm skipping through my thoughts as I write
<snap-l> nullspace: Just get hired into the corporate security, and bypass all of the nanny-state bullshit
<snap-l> Seriously, I think they do more to make their employees want to act  badly by restricting everything
<nullspace> or compromise corporate security...
<nullspace> snap-l: that is actually an idea forming in infosec
<snap-l> Would definitely get you out of the firewall. ;)
<snap-l> Well, seriously, if you treat your employees like children, they're likely to do even more childish things
<nullspace> also filters tend to break teh CIA trianlge thus they break security
<snap-l> punish the bad eggs, and save yourself $$$$ on filtering software costs.
<nullspace> snap-l: you know the bad eggs from their sulfer smell
<snap-l> nullspace: and you (and jrwren) hit it on the head: there are creative ways around any firewall.
<snap-l> All of which put strain on otherwise normal services (DNS, web-based traffic), and are inefficient.
<snap-l> SSH via UDP is clever, but it's not even remotely efficient.
<snap-l> jrwren: Hanzel und Gretyl - Ich Bin Uber Alles
<jrwren> snap-l: i only like the 2 first albums.
<jrwren> snap-l: that one makes me :(
<snap-l> Really? Why?
<jrwren> cuz first two were great IMO
<jrwren> the rest were nazi metal AFAICT
<krondor> nullspace:  gm/ford have SIEM solutions they would (if they deployed correctly) absolutely notice ssh via UDP.
<snap-l> Considering I'm more likely to listen to "The Land Of Rape And Honey" onward, over "Twitch" and prior, I don't see a problem with this. ;)
<krondor> but yes employment in infosec is the best bypass :)
<krondor> snap-l: ++ I've observed first hand over zealous security's negative impact on an environment.
<krondor> kids breaking computers (physically in schools) as policies locked them down too far.  Back the security off a bit to let them change wallpaper and repair rates dropped.
<krondor> does anyone know if apt.conf's Acquire::http::proxy has always been there or was it added at some version?
<brousch> ah, i got ubuntu natty command line running on android. now to see if i can get a gui
<brousch> and i just noticed Scott_firebeta asked what i was using: http://goo.gl/WM4nc
<brousch> my decive was not supported, but i was able to download and install the APK from their web site
<brousch> device
<krondor> sideloading ftw, I haven't had time to mess with the thing yet.  I'm very interested though.
<brousch> hm, looks like the version on the website is a few months older than the current one in the market. oh well. it works
<brousch> krondor: it's easy. just pick your distro and version, click some buttons in the order it tells you to. it downloads a barebones version of that distro and installs it. you ccess the command line on it via chroot
<brousch> if everything goes right, i'll install kubuntu-desktop and x11vnc. this will give me a deskop i can access on localhost via vnc
<rick_h_> http://tatiyants.com/devops-is-ruining-my-craft/ jcastro you need to pull that into a talk sometime
<jcastro> yep
<brousch> http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/core-javascript.do
 * rick_h_ hides so no one sees he has all three of those
<brousch> hard to turn down any oreilly book for $4
<krondor> jcastro: but what about the craftsmanship!  The thrill of troubleshooting!
<krondor> learning your kernel was compiled without 1 Gbps ethernet support when you swap a NIC, or Apache was built with -Oinfinity -fomit-neededThing
<jrwren> git is so good sometimes I want to make sweet love to it.
<brousch> he's turning linux servers into windows desktops! a system isn't working, shut it down and redeploy it
<krondor> every third server was deployed with deadlineI/O while the rest had BFQ
<krondor> how else can you find out who your good troubleshooters are if they don't have to wade through every sysctl setting
<jrwren> lol
 * snap-l feels like a punter because he doesn't use customer kernels
<snap-l> last time I used custom kernels was on a machine that was ill-suited to compile them.
<snap-l> http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/02/23/how-ubuntu-michigan-runs-jams/
<greg-g> snap-l++
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2012/02/23/how-to-jam-like-a-michiganian/
<brousch> oooh, this is snap-l's first ubuntu event as dictator isn't it
<greg-g> release part back for 11.10?
<greg-g> party
<snap-l> Yeah, I've been dictator for some time. :)
<snap-l> at least 4 months now
<brousch> that doesn't count. only events that i attend count ;)
<snap-l> https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-wins-protection-time-zone-database
<greg-g> snap-l: thank the lord
<greg-g> that was a stupid effing case
<snap-l> I'm glad they decided that it was better to drop it
<greg-g> though, it would have been a nice precedent
<snap-l> Other than the "facts aren't copyrightable" precedents? :)
<greg-g> well, the more cases where they try to argue "selection and arrangement" and other shit that get shot down the better
<PainBank> I tried setting my network settings with http_proxy=http://.....
<PainBank> but that didn't seem to do it.  Is it because the computer isn't part of the domain of the proxy?
<PainBank> I can ping computers on the network, just nothing outside the network
 * snap-l just got the Basketball version of Tennis Football Basketball from Carnaval
<snap-l> Got big ol' CC logos on the disc and the back cover
<rick_h_> water going in the tank, wheeee
<snap-l> rick_h_: Awesome. :)
<snap-l> Also listening to the Squeezbox classic in the living room
<snap-l> which means one thing.............
<snap-l> I HAVE TWO SQUEEZEBOXEN
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-24
<rick_h_> snap-l: lol, awesome
<snap-l> It's a little beat up
<snap-l> so I have dubbed it the beat box
<snap-l> I crack me up sometimes.
<rick_h_> you so funny
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> snowpacalypse is a let down this morning. < 1" of snow
<snap-l> Yeah, but now we're getting sleet
<brousch> we just got little round balls of frozen snow. not hail, frozen snow.
<brousch> great stuff
<brousch> uh oh, dropbox just got the only feature of ubuntuone that i actually use http://blog.dropbox.com/?p=984
<snap-l> If they get the ability to purchase music, Ubuntu One becomes less valuable to me. :)
<brousch> i buy from amazon and google
<snap-l> I buy from Amazon when I want to test Banshee. :)
<snap-l> Though more often than not I'm buying CDs
<brousch> i don't even use a local music player any more
<brousch> just drop the files into my music folder, they sync to google music, play it using their web player
<brousch> banshee, rhythmbox, and amarok all suck in some way. google music in a chrome app is very nice
<snap-l> How do you rip CDs? :)
<snap-l> http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.112070 <- Fuck Copyright
<snap-l> All Naxos Historical, Naxos Classical Archives, Naxos Jazz, Folk and Rock Legends and Naxos Nostalgia titles are not available in the United States and some titles may not be available in Australia and Singapore because these countries have copyright laws that provide or may provide for terms of protection for sound recordings that differ from the rest of the world.
<brousch> snap-l: audex
<snap-l> KDE
<snap-l> I should have guessed
<brousch> yes
<snap-l> Man, I can be an itiot sometimes
<snap-l> fired up Banshee on my laptop and saw a bunch of duplicate library entries
<brousch> when in qtland, do as the qties
<snap-l> Was about to get indignant, but then remembered I made a symlink for Purchased From UbuntuOne in ~/Music for the logitech squeezebox server
<snap-l> so, of course there were duplicates. I made them. :)
<snap-l> <- idiot.
<brousch> a smart music player would detect duplicates
<snap-l> brousch: Write one. :)
<brousch> no thanks
<snap-l> I love how WOW calls their e-mail bill service "Care Express"
<snap-l> I guess the e-mail address caresexpress wouldn't fly.
<brousch> world of warcraft?
<snap-l> Wide Open West
<snap-l> Sorry, forgot the !
<snap-l> WOW!
<snap-l> better?
<brousch> not really
<brousch> holy crap look at all the comments on this already http://www.nixternal.com/why-does-kubuntu-suck/?utm_campaign=Why%20Does%20Kubuntu%20Suck?
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> a-yep
<snap-l> Man, Doug Helman's Standard Library stuff is awesome
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'm going to give you $20 to keep that man in beers during PYcon. :)
<brousch> bah, rick_h_ will just blow it on discount books
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> hah
 * jrwren googles doug helman
<rick_h_> yea, he's good stuff
<rick_h_> jrwren: python module of the week
<rick_h_> and turned that into a book, some good python tips/etc
<jrwren> speaking of python tips... python411 podcast.  wtf?  i listen to get more awareness and the guy talks about biochem teh whole time and no python.
<jrwren> i was very disappointed.
<brousch> jrwren: i had hoped that guy retired permanently
<jrwren> where are teh python equivalents of "The Ruby Show" and "the Ruby 5" ?
<brousch> he tried to give away his podcast domain and such a year ago, but rick_h_ wouldn't bite
<jrwren> would you want ot be associated with that?
<brousch> a year ago there were 4 python/django podcasts. now there are none
<jrwren> I wouldn't.
<brousch> he gets good guests
<rick_h_> brousch: that wasn't him
<jrwren> Michael Foord's show is good.
<jrwren> the one wiht teh pypy guy is what made me think pypy is awesome.
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, not really a killer python podcast I've found that's lasted more than a few in a row
<jrwren> or is it pipi ?
<rick_h_> pypy
<brousch> python 411 is an old guy who uses a mac and eats the whole time, right?
<rick_h_> pypi == package hosting repository
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, old guy
<jrwren> pypy == python JIT
<snap-l> WHy they named the cheese shop Pypi is beyond me
<jrwren> ty.
<jrwren> pypi is a terrible name for cheese shop
<rick_h_> python package index
<jrwren> esp when pypy already exists.
<snap-l> At least call it Py Pee
<rick_h_> pypy came after pypi
<brousch> python package index
<snap-l> And not py py
<jrwren> i'd enver seen python package index abreviated as pypi until much after pypy
<jrwren> but that is probably ME
<rick_h_> this is like python trivia...next question
<snap-l> Name the fastest land mammal
<brousch> man
<snap-l> The Cheetah
<brousch> my car goes faster than a cheetah
<snap-l> Sorry, rick_h_ it's your turn at the board.
<Blazeix> https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=61095
<rick_h_> I saw the title come across, then thought when I last tried to add hex and skipped the link
<Blazeix> the biggest wtf is that spaces work
<snap-l> Have I mentioned lately that PHP is a bastard language?
<rick_h_> yea, it's kind of funny. Since I've left php there's not once I've thought I should use it for something
<rick_h_> there's days I even think 'perl would be good here'
<rick_h_> but NEVER php
<brousch> wordpress
<rick_h_> meh, I'm sick of WP
<snap-l> brousch: That and gallery2 are the only PHP apps I'm currently running
<snap-l> and I'm replacing gallery2 with Zenphoto
<snap-l> I think the only PHP code I'd write would have to require it to be easily deployed on hosting environments
<snap-l> and would also be an exploit. ;)
<brousch> when i paste something into vim it indents each line more than the previous. this is really annoying. where is my problem? my .vimrc http://paste.mitechie.com/show/547/
<snap-l> brousch: Use set paste
<brousch> just add 'set paste' to my vimrc?
<rick_h_> no
<snap-l> Don't do that
<rick_h_> " set the paste toggle key
<rick_h_> set pastetoggle=<F11>
<snap-l> just type "set paste" if you're pasting in a chunk of code
<rick_h_> then toggle it back/forth when you paste something in
<snap-l> or be like rick_h_ and map it
<rick_h_> because once you set paste, you'll want to set nopaste
<brousch> ah, so do that when i paste from outside vim?
<rick_h_> rgr
<snap-l> yes
<Blazeix> i set my vim buffer and linux copy/paste buffer to be one and the same, then just use 'p' to paste both
<Blazeix> that gets around having to use 'set paste'
<snap-l> Blazeix: How did you get that to work reliably?
<rick_h_> yea, I use autocutsel to copy then around, but not done the one clipboard to rule them all yet
<snap-l> Also, if you're using SSH, set paste is still useful
<Blazeix> snap-l: yeah, for SSH i still use set paste
<Blazeix> i have set clipboard=unnamed in my vimrc
<Blazeix> and that works for *almost* everything
<brousch> hey, it works!
<Blazeix> chrome sometimes has weirdness
<snap-l> browser clipboards and vim are failboats
<brousch> thanks
<snap-l> np
<rick_h_> oh yay, the technology debate gets going and I get to do my jqyery vs YUI rant!
<brousch> jquery FTW!
<snap-l> Woah.
<snap-l> Got a conference pack from Ubuntu coming
<snap-l> brousch: LMK if you want some swag.
<snap-l> brousch: ARe you comin to the jam in Ann Arbor?
<brousch> stickers maybe
<brousch> yeah, jamming
<snap-l> OK, I'll bring them with, then
<snap-l> Also will be bringing a bunch of 11.10 CDs
<snap-l> want them out of the garage prior to 12.04 dropping. :)
<brousch> i have an assload of them still
<brousch> you sent me a lifetime supply
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> That's about 1/3of what I have left
<rick_h_> wtf, someone pitching ExtJS?!
<snap-l> Hello 2005
<snap-l> I hear ExtJS got better recently
<rick_h_> grrrrrr, can I just go off and be like "let the real JS people decide this kthx" ?
<snap-l> somewhere called "MUG"
<rick_h_> someone actually threw http://trends.builtwith.com/topsites/jquery at me
<snap-l> rick_h_: Is that related to the tremor I felt?
<rick_h_> naw, not yet. No one's talking of switching yet
<snap-l> I'm surprised nobody tossed out Bootstrap yet.
<rick_h_> basically wanted to throw the 'jquery + backbone' == yui and is more popular
<rick_h_> so then I threw back:  yes, if you narrow down we're all going to do AMD, require.js, backbone, jquery, handlebars, qunit  then you start to match up
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, let's just say the bootstrap conversation is out there as well
<snap-l> so essentially it's do-able. ;)
<rick_h_> no, at least we have smart people there
<rick_h_> basically it's "yes, handy for that first time you use it, then a pita when you go to change it, and even more a pita to maintain over time"
<rick_h_> it's like django!
<brousch> beautiful perfection?
<snap-l> Programmer crack
<rick_h_> "whoa, I get all this working ootb? Let me just tweak this over here...and over there...and there's a update to the framwork, so change all this..."
<rick_h_> "@!$#@@#$#@ this tool!"
 * brousch checks the calendar for th next time he'll see rick_h_
<rick_h_> brousch: there's a small chance I'll be at the jam
<brousch> small?
<rick_h_> so play the odds!
<rick_h_> grandpa is in town and wife is working, so if I can pitch the boy off on gramps I'll run out maybe
<snap-l> brousch: You're only three hours away. Don't think he won't make a special trip to kick your ass
<brousch> snap-l: he hasn't yet ;)
<brousch> bring the boy!
<brousch> we can convert jrwren's office into a child holding cell
<rick_h_> that's it, my penguicon talk is decided...why jquery can suck my left spaceball
<rick_h_> see, fit some sci-fi in there :)
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> no wolfger today?
<rick_h_> well http://honk.sigxcpu.org/con/Iodine_plugin_for_network_manager.html anyway I guess
<_stink_> nice.
<brousch> hm, are the armel packages in some special repo?
<rick_h_> ok, talk is submitted
<rick_h_> and no waldo to poke to get my talk granted, where is everyone today?
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> waldo323 can't get his IRC set up
<_stink_> er
<rick_h_> dammit, I'm sick of this devolving into "but everyone else uses jquery..."
 * rick_h_ screams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<rick_h_> "have you used it?" "well no, but it seemed so hard to get started"
<_stink_> heh
<brousch> homeskillet?
<nixternal> you know it
<brousch> i think you can only call someone a homeskillet if you've eaten with them at denny's
<nixternal> I love how out of more than 60 comments thus far, not a single negative one or a troll. some of the best comments I have ever witnessed, though most seem to be coming from Arch users and not Ubuntu users :p
<nixternal> eww, denny's
<nixternal> the best skillet I have ever eaten in my life was from a restaurant in Watervliet, MI called Maw & Paw's. they had the best food ever. lard rocks! :D
<brousch> yeah, a lot of arch on there. specifically that Chakra offshoot
<brousch> lard rocks does not sound good to me
<nixternal> arch is pretty awesome, though it definitely isn't for new users
<nixternal> dwm & arch > *
<nixternal> if you are a developer of course
<brousch> only python and web
<nixternal> i am starting to look at my workflow more and more and am realizing i could easily switch to any distro i wanted & not notice much of a difference. just as long as they had yakuake in their repos :)
<nixternal> i use pip to install everything python
<brousch> right
<nixternal> i would never use ruby in ubuntu's repos because it is garbage, so i manually do that as well
<brousch> you pip install ruby?
<nixternal> i don't use a file manager, i am at the cli 99.9% of the time
<nixternal> i use chrome for browsing, thunderbird & gmail for mail
<nixternal> no you don't pip install ruby :p
<rick_h_> heh, I need a decent shell and I'm moving to a chromebook
<rick_h_> cli + chrome == my day
<nixternal> if i didn't need to compile java/c++, a chromebook + cli would be all i need really
<nixternal> fairly certain I am going to get one of the Intel Ultrabook things, probably the Asus because it doesn't do that crappy 13xx x 768 or whatever resolution everyone seems to use
<brousch> kubuntu is missing armel packages. it's not happy on my NookColor. i'm going to try debian
<brousch> nixternal: have you tried the kde plasma netbook?
<nixternal> not in 2 years I haven't
<brousch> i can get the galaxy nexus for $200 today. should i pull the trigger?
<krondor> why not quad core phones are a ways off, it is the cadillace of specs at the moment and you get nexus support
<krondor> I expect around xmas you'll see the first real quad core or nextgen SoC options and 720p samoled screens.
<krondor> android 5.x is on the horizon too, but definitley not till next year and gnexus will no doubt get that update.
<brousch> do you work for vzw?
<krondor> nope I'm just speculating from the rumor mill
<brousch> grrrr, fighting with a sales goober over chat
<brousch> the $100 discount doesn't show when i login
<brousch> she punted to phone support and tried to sell me a pouch for carrying my phone
<brousch> oh those bastards
<snap-l> 4...3...2...1...
<brousch> now the ad has removed the galaxy nexus
<snap-l> Thank you for choosing Verizon
<nixternal> unless you have amazing 4g support where you will be using the gnex, i wouldn't go with it. i would either wait (quadies coming soon), or if you have to upgrade now, htc rezound then the gnex. i returned my gnex twice before switching to the rezound. couldn't be happier
<rick_h_> 4g is nice :)
<nixternal> ics is nice, especially on a tablet. on a phone you really don't get to utilize the greatness that ics brings to android.
<rick_h_> and I do like the size/ics myself of the nexus
<nixternal> though ics folders pwn me
<nixternal> unless the gnex can make a chicago style dog the way portillos, super dawg, and such do, i don't care for it :)
<krondor> nixternal:  i think ics is worth it for the gmail/corp mail client updaets alone...
<krondor> I'm jealous (still eying the sgs2 ics ports, which have too many rough edges at the moment)
<krondor> plus phone encryption because I'm paranoid!
<nixternal> i wouldn't say alone, though that is a really nice feature to be honest.
<nixternal> krondor: yeah, seems all of the ics roms/leaks out there for the phones seem to miss the "hardware accelleration" right now
<krondor> yeah sgs2 issues so far are wake lock craziness (ie crap battery life) and camera / rendering perf. issues
<brousch> we have good 4G in grand rapids. had it before those ghetto east siders
<nixternal> yeah, camera always seems to be a PITA with initial ROMs and usually never gets straightend out until an official ICS OTA comes out
<nixternal> seems the work around for camera is "install camera app foo instead"
<krondor> ooh and third party vpn api in ics so I can actually vpn to work without root (not that I wouldn't have root)
<nixternal> krondor: now that would be a reason no doubt, especially if you have to vpn
<brousch> and they're letting me keep my unlimited plan
<nixternal> brousch: yeah, as long as you had unlimited with 3g, you will have unlimited with 4g, until verizon figures out a way to get away from the grandfather rules the fcc enforced
<brousch> heh
<nixternal> now if only vzw could keep their 4g service up for longer than 2 to 3 weeks before it shuts down for a few hours
<krondor> nixternal:  if they really cared they'd just start doing what AT&T do and throttle the unlimited to 2G when you pass their quota mark
<krondor> they might already be doing that... but at least you don't get billed I guess
<nixternal> vzw does that already
<nixternal> they will throttle you even if you have "unlimited" data
<krondor> ooh looks like opencomputer has added things since I last looked
<brousch> i'm gonna have to go occupy verizon if i want this $100 off
<krondor> err opencompute
<krondor> downward spiral of apple http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17158047
<krondor> man this channel is quite for a friday despite my best efforts..
<krondor> quiet my brain is apparently done for the day
<_stink_> hah
<rick_h_> heh, working
<rick_h_> widox: heading to the store, last minute requests?
<rick_h_> _stink_: that cherry coke is regular right?
<_stink_> rick_h_: sure
<rick_h_> _stink_: k
<_stink_> but uh, don't go too crazy
<_stink_> trying to get what i suggested :P
<rick_h_> heh, easy requests
<brousch> pork rinds and prune juice please
<jrwren> ya'll having a party?
<waldo323_> maybe they are having a coding party?
<Blazeix> jrwren: http://blog.mitechie.com/2012/02/20/bookie-sprint-feb-25th-10am-4pm/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-25
<jrwren> snap-l: ok, LOVING being able to control music from my phone.
<jrwren> snap-l: you rock.
<rick_h_> crap, now jrwren's endorsement will make me want to get one
<rick_h_> jrwren: you just running the software? Or did you get one of the devices?
<jrwren> software.
<jrwren> pure software.
<rick_h_> jrwren: ah cool
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, it's awesome, isn't it? :)
<snap-l> The hardware players are like icing on the cake
<jrwren> but hardware players are $$$ aren't they?
<jrwren> I'd like something that i can leave on all the time, or boots insanely fast.
<jrwren> so like 1W draw or boots fast ;)
<snap-l> The radio is $149 (but if you come to MUG you can get a coupon code for 35% off)
<snap-l> Touch is $299
<snap-l> You can find the classic on eBay for ~$100-140
<snap-l> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Squeezebox-Radio-parts-/200716285934?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebb9f77ee#ht_500wt_1069
<snap-l> do NOT get the Duet, though. It's junk AFAICT.
<snap-l> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Squeezebox-Wi-Fi-Radio-looks-and-works-great-/251003457742?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a70f8d0ce#ht_500wt_1069
<snap-l> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-squeezebox-boom-/180826272990?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1a15f4de#ht_500wt_835
<jrwren> snap-l: I think I'll write a player for my iphone and use my old 3gs as a "radio"
<jrwren> leave it on all the time.
<snap-l> That works too
<snap-l> though iPeng is beyond awesome.
<snap-l> http://penguinlovesmusic.de/ipeng-the-iphone-skin-for-squeezecenter/
<snap-l> http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ipeng/id296941576?mt=8
<snap-l> I know nobody else uses Ubuntu One for downloading music, but... um...
<snap-l> It appears it's loading the 7Digital pages instead
<greg-g> hah
 * greg-g just got U1, the file syncing part, installed on Debian
<greg-g> harder than you might think, maybe
<brousch> snap-l: we should touch on this at the jam http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/24/dns-in-ubuntu-12-04/
<snap-l> brousch: Agreed.
<snap-l> That directly affects me. :)
<brousch> what the article doesn't really cover is "why"
<brousch> seems like a lot more annoyance just to make vpn's easier (which i don't use)
<snap-l> brousch: Actually it's to help folks who use VPNs
<snap-l> because DNS is a PTA with VPN
<snap-l> Essentially it's what I do in order to get DNS working with a VPN
<brousch> but it is more annoyance for the 90% who don't use vpn
<brousch> so why not make it a easy_vpn install or something
<jrwren> ugh. i hate resolvconf for resolv.conf management.
<jrwren> i like dnsmasq by default though.
<jrwren> snap-l: know anything about how squeeze protocol works?
<jrwren> https://squeezeslave.googlecode.com/svn/squeezeslave/trunk/squeezeslave/lib/ like why does squeezeslave link to 7z ?
<rick_h_> meh, I kind of miss the goold ole days with easy to edit files in one place to get things done
<jrwren> rick_h_: agreed.
<jrwren> rick_h_: but it looks like there are still easy to edit files, they are just in a few places, not too many, and for good reason.
<snap-l> jrwren: Probably because there's more windows users than the rest of us. :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Ah, understood the question now.
<snap-l> Not sure why it links to 7z
<snap-l> Seems to be windows specific, though
<snap-l> So perhaps it's their way of getting access to zip files?
<jrwren> strange.
<jrwren> isn't zip COMPRESS just libz ?
<jrwren> i can't remember
<snap-l> no, it's not compress format
<snap-l> jrwren: Did you see this? http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SlimProtoSTRM#Command:_.22strm.22
<jrwren> no.
<jrwren> that the control protocol to the port 9000 web server?
<jrwren> oh, nope.
<snap-l> No, there's two ports
<snap-l> 9000 is the web server
<snap-l> 3483 is the control port
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-26
<rick_h_> http://blog.mitechie.com/2012/02/26/bookie-sprint-summary/
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> ugh, going to take today to recover phew
<snap-l> Late night last night? :)
<rick_h_> umm, little hangover today I htink
<rick_h_> and all that junk food kicking me
<rick_h_> ordered the first set of plants for the fish tank last night as well
<rick_h_> wheeee
<snap-l> woo hoo
<rick_h_> so these are the guys we're going to go with I think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JV2jZRw2N8
<snap-l> Very nice
<snap-l> Huh, wasn't familiar with those.
<rick_h_> rainbows?
<snap-l> Yeah
<rick_h_> yea, I like them, middle sized, colorful, active, schooling
<snap-l> I've usually stuck more with Tetras
<rick_h_> so think I'll get those, cardinal tetras, harlequin rosaboras, cory, and a clown/dwarf pleco
<rick_h_> that's the plan anyway
<snap-l> The tiger barbs were an unfortunate result of trying to branch out of the
<snap-l> norm
<snap-l> I miss our clown pleco
<rick_h_> tiger barbs are evil
<rick_h_> I stay away from all barbs
<snap-l> Yeah, I'll not make that mistake again
<snap-l> It was because I wanted to get a clown loach, and they were all out of them.
<rick_h_> I was thinking those. Always wanted some, but ready today they can get up to a foot long?!
<snap-l> so for some reason I thought 4 Tiger Barbs in a 5 gal tank would work out better
<rick_h_> tigers are mean little @!$#@s
<snap-l> Well, and they're highly suceptable to ick
<snap-l> which, funny enough, was my first encounter with it
<snap-l> I never thought I'd see the OGL discussed on the CC license list.
<snap-l> (Open Gaming License used for pen and paper RPGs)
<rick_h_> heh
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, the current cc discussions are getting quite broad, which is good
<snap-l> Well, I love how it was summarily dismissed as something Hasbro would like to forget
<greg-g> crafting a new license, that will hopefully last for a decade, the drafters/commenters should be well aware of the world in which it will live
<greg-g> ah, missed that
<snap-l> Since there's a lot of games that survive because of it
<greg-g> (it is hard for me to keep up on cc-license and cc-community right now, SO MUCH TALKING)
<snap-l> Pathfinder is one such example
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<snap-l> Also Fudge took on the OGL, which spawned FATE
<snap-l> and OpenD6 has benefitted.
<snap-l> I'd hardly dismiss the OGL. What would be cool is if the CC license could be harmonized with the product-identity pieces
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Game_License
 * snap-l picked up a book "Prolog for Programmers" from John King North
<tjagoda> Ordering pizza online is just enablement for both my hatred of humans, and my love of fat pizza foods.
<tjagoda> DAMN YOU, HUNGRY HOWIE!
<snap-l> tjagoda: We are living in the future
<brousch> I stumbled on an interesting problem with heroku. You use `git push heroku master` to deploy your site, but that means your production settings file is in your git repo.
<brousch> It turns out you're supposed to set sensitive settings in environment variables
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, you can remove a file from git history though
<rick_h_> brousch: or can't you have scripts that download a file from s3 or something?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-18
<rick_h_> woot, crossed 200 users that completed the sign in process in bookie
<snap-l> rick_h_: Congratulations!
<snap-l> New keyboard should show up on Friday.
<rick_h_> snap-l: yay
<snap-l> How's the morning so far?
<brousch> busy
<brousch> This tablet is such a sexy beast
<snap-l> brousch: Rule 34
<brousch> heh
<brousch> Transformer Infinity
<brousch> 1920x1080 on a 10" screen is nice
<snap-l> Oh, that's purdy
<brousch> And detachable keyboard with like 8 more hours of battery
<rick_h_> this is a mighty fine sight http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/8485522775/in/photostream :D
<rick_h_> and afternoon, been afk all morning heh
<brousch> nice butt
<rick_h_> baby got back!
<brousch> Did you purchase that machine?
<rick_h_> yes, took it home with me
<brousch> nice
<rick_h_> yea, going to take it down to ATL in a couple weeks and will make for a nice ride /me hopes
<rick_h_> brousch: thinking of you https://github.com/jensens/pyramid-gae-tutorial
<brousch> heh
<brousch> I don't have anything on GAE any more, and Linus leaving makes me more nervous about using it
<brousch> I mean Guido
<rick_h_> yea
<brousch> I've been using Heroku and Linode
<jrwren> heroku gets $$$ quick
<brousch> Not on the free tier!
<rick_h_> yep, but you can tinker with things usually pretty cheap
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> and...
<jrwren> its a trap.
<rick_h_> well, but I do like they get you diong pretty good practices ootb to deploy there
<rick_h_> makes it easy to deploy to your own host/etc since you've already done some work there
<rick_h_> less of a trap than it seems imo
<brousch> Less of a trap than GAE
<snap-l> Love it when I break code that I thought I fixed.
<rick_h_> snap-l: just means you missed a test :)
<snap-l> Um, sure. Tests.
<snap-l> Problem is it's crapping out when I'm doing a sqlalchemy query.
<snap-l> TypeError: "'NoneType' object is not iterable"
<snap-l> Which is the null-pointer-exception of Python
<snap-l> I am about 4 seconds from snapping this keyboard in half.
<brousch> vid or it didn't happen
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Well, apparently there's a little catch-22 here
<snap-l> Can't order on a field that returns nothing
<snap-l> hm, this could prove interesting
<snap-l> OK, here's a conundrum:
<snap-l> I'm looking for a record, ordered by a contact date
<snap-l> if the record isn't there, sqlalchemy bombs because it can't order on a field that isn't there
<snap-l> but if it's there, I want it to pick only the earliest record.
<snap-l> Wondering if I should just do the query, then sort the results afterward.
<snap-l> but I feel sqlalchemy should just return None, not an error
<snap-l> hmmm.
<widox> snap-l: is sqlalchemy secreltly ordering on the data after its returned??
<widox> seems like it should be adding it to the SQL query
<snap-l> I don't think it's adding it to the query
<snap-l> I'm dumb: haven't been looking at log files.
<rick_h_droid> yea as long as you order by before you call all() it should be fine
<snap-l> I'm calling first()
<snap-l> because I only one the first result
<snap-l> Should I use all() instead, and then just pop the first result?
<rick_h_droid> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/__init__.py#L159
<rick_h_droid> oh well s/all/first
<rick_h_droid> but don't use one() since that expects a record and tosses an exc if not found
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/bFnz2azlSC4I9yYcz7bd/
<rick_h_droid> yea need to catch res and check for none
<snap-l> Then I lose the ordering
<rick_h_droid> can't just unpack when you can get a none response
<snap-l> so I'll have to sort on the last contact date outside of the query.
<rick_h_> no, sec moving to computer so I can reply better
<snap-l> kk
<snap-l> Oh, is the problem the tuple?
<rick_h_> ? CustomerContact.last_contact_date. CustomerContact.contact_embargo_days
<rick_h_> why is there a . in there?
<snap-l> This is in the model.
<snap-l> It's a manager
<snap-l> I think I know what the problem is. I think the tuple unpacking is what's screwing me up
<snap-l> going to use a list instead
<snap-l> and see if that makes it happy.
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/889/ seems to make more sense to me
<rick_h_> right, you need to check if the query returned None (no results found) first
<rick_h_> then unpack
<snap-l> Yeah, that's where I ran into problems
<rick_h_droid> party
<snap-l> LIke I said, SQLAlchemy needs a "you're being stupid" exception
<rick_h_droid> lol
<snap-l> I need a magical thwacking
<widox> snap-l: can you do something like SELECT MIN(contact_date), contact_embargo_days FROM blarg WHERE email = email GROUP BY contract_embargo_days?
<widox> instead or ordering, then taking the first one
<widox> maybe sqlalchemy does this...
<snap-l> widox: Possibly, but I think I have it sorted.
<snap-l> lesson for the day: Python really doesn't like unpacking None. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-19
<snap-l> Evening
<rick_h_> evening
<Blazeix> nice: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/dells-linux-ultrabook-gets-more-pixels-european-availability/
<rick_h_> yea, definitely cool
<snap-l> wait wait
<rick_h_> huh?
<Blazeix> the suspense is killing me
<snap-l> waiting for JoDee to get out of class
<rick_h_> oh that's less dramatic
<Blazeix> yeah, it should have been read in a singsong voice, rather than an urgent tone.
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/a7d2eb71a36a9b ?!
 * rick_h_ gets wallet out
<snap-l> Is it just me, or does anyone else have a hard time getting excited over a tablet?
<snap-l> I mean, cool if you're into that sort of thing, but felt like some artificial buzz
<rick_h_> I <3 my N7
<snap-l> Yeah, don't get me wrong, I think the N7 is pretty cool
<snap-l> Just the "Ubuntu Tablet, woo woo" is leaving me a little cold.
<snap-l> I'll fully admit I'm probably not the target audience. ;)
<brousch> Is it out?
<rick_h_> announcement today
<rick_h_> but it'll probably just be the software, hopefully runs on an N7
<brousch> probably? hopefully? You're our inside man! Get the real scoop!
<rick_h_> lol, but I don't know anything. I didn't know anything until the page went up on the site
<snap-l> Considering the "on penalty of death" threats I've heard some folks say... ;)
<rick_h_> and $#@$# sirius for being a pita to deal with online
<brousch> A little death never hurt anyone
<snap-l> rick_h_: Use the SB
<snap-l> there's a client for it
<rick_h_> snap-l: it's for the car stuff
<snap-l> You'll need the hardware radio, though. It doesn't support software clients.
<rick_h_> it's got the traffic/etc and supposedly can get weather but maybe
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, but get the client
<rick_h_> k
<snap-l> Was the way I listened to marketplace t 6pm. ;)
<snap-l> May as well get the most out of your 3 months
<rick_h_> yea, but looking into what it'll run after that. Like the traffic bits, not sure on the radio
<rick_h_> I'll definitely use it down to Atl and back
<rick_h_> trial it up ftw
<snap-l> Oh definitely
<snap-l> That's the only reason I like Sirius is for those long drives
<snap-l> but other than that, I have podcasts.
<rick_h_> though I've got 3 audio books that I could put a dent into
<snap-l> and with bluetooth support in the car, I have one less thing to fiddle with
<rick_h_> and can do pandora over BT from the phone as well
<snap-l> rick_h_: You're indirectly paying for Sirius. ;)
<snap-l> Might as well use it.
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> I let ours expire.
<snap-l> and now I'm getting the "6 months free with purchase of a year sub"
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> Is the Taureg AWD?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea
<brousch> I could've used it today
<rick_h_> brousch: pretty good offroad/etc based on reviews and the like
<rick_h_> but honestly I had that with the subaru pretty well so just hoping it keeps up
<rick_h_> I'm already nervous because it's more a 90% front / 10% rear by default for road driving
<rick_h_> vs subaru 50/50 all the time
<brousch> Subaru's annoys me sometimes
<brousch> Takes too long to transfer power to different wheels
<brousch> I think a manual subaru would be better
<rick_h_> meh, never gave me grief. <3
<brousch> I didn't notice it as much with the 2000 Forester, but our 2009 Forester is laggy
<rick_h_> well forester is the poor mans subie imo. Outback or bust
<rick_h_> when I got my last outback I drove a forester around and it did not feel nearly as well put together as the outback
<rick_h_> road noise, ergo, everything seemed not up to snuff
<brousch> I agree, but it's the wife's car
<rick_h_> gotcha
<snap-l> ls
<snap-l> bah
<brousch> IRCINYCL
<snap-l> OAYFM
<snap-l> Once Again You Fail Me
<rick_h_> win7 doesn't have telnet? w.t.f.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Why would it?
<rick_h_> because it has before through time from the cli
<snap-l> I'm surprised it doesn't ship with PuTTY
<snap-l> Other than PuTTY is a miserable interface to a mediocre SSH client
<brousch> PuTTY is my savior
<snap-l> It's a heaping dose of adequate
<brousch> Well-put
<rick_h_> and $@#$@# IE10 and it's developer tools of suck
<snap-l> Heh
<brousch> OMG you have to use IE?
<rick_h_> have to have our thing work in IE10
<brousch> That's one thing I love about my big internal project. I can give the finger to IE
<brousch> I've trained everyone to use Chrome and FF, and only use IE when a site doesn't work on the good browsers
<brousch> This is awesome http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/19/3doodler/
<jrwren> rick_h_: seeking critisism: https://github.com/jrwren/aggregate
<rick_h_> jrwren: about to jump on a call but will look in a few
<brousch> jrwren: Looks interesting
<jrwren> brousch: not pointless?
<brousch> Depends on the data you're dealing with
<jrwren> right.
<snap-l> jrwren: What are you looking to do? Keep a running average on a list or dict of data?
<jrwren> the goal is to aggregate an long stream. e.g. I'll be running it on a generator which generates 4+GB of data
<snap-l> with min and max?
<jrwren> snap-l: the running aggregates part isn't done yet, but that is the next step.
<snap-l> I could see this being useful
<jrwren> snap-l: ultimately, "maybe"  but the goal is simply to be able to aggregate a large set.
<snap-l> Yeah, at the very least the min / max stuff would be nice.
<jrwren> e.g. I'm reading binary data from a custom database on disk, turning the records into dict and yielding each one in a generator - so only 1 record is ever in memory at a time, but I can aggregate nicely.
<snap-l> running average would be tricky
<jrwren> hrm. I should document what i just said.
<snap-l> jrwren: Bingo. ;)
<jrwren> running average is easy. I have running sum and running count :)
<snap-l> Ah, right
<snap-l> derp
<brousch> jrwren: Make sure this doesn't suit you http://matplotlib.org/api/mlab_api.html#matplotlib.mlab.rec_groupby
<jrwren> i'd have to use numpy
<jrwren> which means loading everything into a numpy array.
<jrwren> i'm actually dealing with datasets which cannot fit into memory on the machine on which I'll be running them.
<brousch> Also maybe http://pandas.pydata.org/pandas-docs/stable/groupby.html
<brousch> heh
<brousch> Big Data!
<jrwren> its not really.
<jrwren> its more like small machine :)
<brousch> Confucius say, "Big Data in Small Machine make for painful pleasure"
<_stink_> hahaha
<_stink_> stolen
<snap-l> jrwren: Just use RLE. ;)
<snap-l> I'll show myself the door now.
<jrwren> snap-l: RLE?
<rick_h_> jrwren: my first reaction, with the knowledge that you're talking stream 4GB/etc is that databases already do this and a tmp table would do it in a hurry and you can then do cooler work like multi process loading of data or the like if that's io bound.
<snap-l> Run Length Encoding. ;)
<rick_h_> don't have 4gb of memory? ouch
<jrwren> snap-l: oh, not on this dataset.
<jrwren> its running on a 32bit machine.
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm kidding.
<jrwren> so 2GB process limit :)
<rick_h_> meh, cut --help :P
<jrwren> rick_h_: you might be right.
<jrwren> I did do exactly what you just said before doing this - pulled it into postgresql got the numbers I needed.
<snap-l> jrwren: TOo bad you're not in a physics lab. I'm pretty sure RLE would work there. (All the data is a series of ones or zeroes)
<jrwren> snap-l: rofl.
<rick_h_> jrwren: so I mean this is cool and solves your problem or what not, but just not how I'd think to go about it myself.
<jrwren> rick_h_: not loading things into postgresql was an assumed constraint.
<jrwren> purhaps it was a false assumption on my part.
<snap-l> Beware false assumptions.
<rick_h_> jrwren: even something like a NOSQL db could work as you could create a view that does the agg and start loading and it'll update per insert
<snap-l> First commandment: Thou shalt have no other assumptions besides me
<jrwren> perhaps automating postgresql import is the right way
<rick_h_> jrwren: if you're sure this is all you need then cool go for it. I just find that these types of things end up getting new twisted requirements over time and the solution doesn't scale up/out like a real db
<jrwren> rick_h_: which NOSQL db?  mongo sucks to go to disk. redis is KV. what do you recommend?
<rick_h_> jrwren: honestly, I was thinking about couch and how you create a view it auto updates the view on insert
<jrwren> i'll explore that next. thanks.
<rick_h_> so load time takes the hit but reading is instant since it's pre-calculated
<jrwren> right.
<rick_h_> not sure if you've got a need for multiple reads/etc
<snap-l> Also PostgreSQL can emulate KV and store JSON
<rick_h_> heh, pgsql hstore on group_by value = sum :P
<jrwren> snap-l: exactly, which is why I never bother with mongo or redis :)
<rick_h_> but that will probably be slower because you will run out of ram and the table will hit disk, but it's a TON more flexible.
<rick_h_> so depends on your goals.
<snap-l> rick_h_: views. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: not following
<snap-l> use a view to get the average
<snap-l> Though you take the compute hit every time you want it. ;)
<jrwren> i've already done exactly all of this with postgresql.
<rick_h_> right, view only helps if it's a materialized and such but yea. That's what I mean though. It's a solved problem there
<jrwren> use the exact same py generator reader to create a COPY FROM import, then index on 1 column, then do my aggregation.
<jrwren> it works well.
<rick_h_> this agg module can help a specific use case, but then it seems like there'd be numpy/etc stuff that does this as well.
<rick_h_> but I've not used it enough to speak about it intelligently
<jrwren> the issue is the requirement is run on ec2 w/out ebs. so I'd have to recreate the postgresql on demand.
<snap-l> Yeah, and I'm not sure how efficient it is either.
<jrwren> afaik numpy/etc all needs to fit into ram.
<rick_h_> jrwren: copy/load from s3
<jrwren> rick_h_: its in s3 now, as raw data.
<rick_h_> ah gotcha
<snap-l> What's to stop you from keeping the database files on S3?
<snap-l> (seriously doesn't understand S3)
<jrwren> s3 is slow.
<rick_h_> because pgsql splits things into a ton of diff files based on the block size and it'd be a mess in s3
<snap-l> kk
<rick_h_> and yea, compared to local it's very slow, but pretty fast as far as internet goes especially on ec2 inside the network
<rick_h_> heck of a lot faster than uploading from your machine to the instance
<rick_h_> unless you're in KC I guess :P
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> given its a TB of data...
<rick_h_> oooh, thought it was 4GB?
<jrwren> lol, no.
<jrwren> the whole point is that i never load more than 1 record into ram at once.
<jrwren> i just assume a 2GB limit since I'm on a 32bit instance.
<jrwren> "it doesn't fit into ram" is the #1 requirement.
<rick_h_> well hell, for TB of data we're talking hadoop/reduce functions
<jrwren> nope, will not JVM.
<jrwren> no hadoop allowed :)
<jrwren> unless of course, we rewrite hadoop.
<jrwren> pydoop.
<jrwren> thankfully my coworkers and mgmt have the same aversion to jvm that I do.
<rick_h_> https://github.com/michaelfairley/mincemeatpy or http://mikecvet.wordpress.com/2010/07/02/parallel-mapreduce-in-python/ for some fun weekend tinkering :)
<rick_h_> http://engineeringblog.yelp.com/2010/10/mrjob-distributed-computing-for-everybody.html is cool but uses hadoop under the hood
<jrwren> thanks.
<rick_h_> but yea, TB of data like that is a straight up map/reduce problem and there's stuff to do that.
<rick_h_> and one of the things couch did kind of cool
<jrwren> except I can do it in a timely manner using exactly what i jsut wrote.
<jrwren> MR is overkill.
<rick_h_> yea, so what are you doing then? Splitting one s3 file into a dozen, firing up 12 micro workers, and running your script?
<jrwren> i mean, its only 1TB of data. I can read that off disk in a reasonably short period of time. IO is vastly slower than proc, so some math on whawt I just read is near zero overhead.
<jrwren> thousands of s3 files, single small instance, for i in files; do keepsum $i ; done
<jrwren> something like that :)
<rick_h_> gotcha
<rick_h_> you're doing MR, just your micro framework for it committed to a specific function run :P
<jrwren> i will probably never process teh whole TB at once.
<jrwren> of course.
<jrwren> EVERYTHING is map and reduce.
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> no no - its true.
<jrwren> its a fundamentalism of functional programming.
<jrwren> and map is just a special case of reduce.
<jrwren> or is that the other way around, I forget.
<jrwren> i really appreciate the dialog. I'll try some other things too.
<jrwren> TY
<brousch> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/02/ubuntu-for-tablet-unveiled-by-canonical-nexus-7-download-coming-thursday
<brousch> I almost bought a Nexus 10
<rick_h_> yea, I'm on the edge of doing that right now
<rick_h_> love the N7 and curious if a 10 would be any good. This way I could test out the ubuntu on it and keep my N7 for the handy stuff I love on it
<jcastro> what sucks about the 7 and 10
<jcastro> is they're totally different hardware
<rick_h_> yea :/
<rick_h_> two diff companies
<jcastro> at first I was like "oh cool, same hardware, different form factor."
<jcastro> of course, that would be too easy
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> its only 200G of ram :)
<rick_h_> oooh, snow...go go go. I want to go play
<rick_h_> Blazeix: have you used google maps api some?
<rick_h_> ...going...to...have...meltdown...
<snap-l> What happened?
<rick_h_> this stupid project is setup in the most stupid way and I'm getting tired of working around it to submit a stupid 2line patch...
<rick_h_> every time I fix one thing another is broken...dammit these aren't stupid devs. Why are they trying to make me want to press the nukes button?
<snap-l> They don't know any better?
<snap-l> Or better left the station a while ago, and now we're stuck with a culture of meh?
<rick_h_> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet does look kind of cool (the video)
<brousch> Who dressed Shuttleworth for that video?
<brousch> He looks like a homeless guy
<brousch> Come on. You're a billionaire playboy cosmonaut pimping the future of technology. Trim the chesthair!
<_stink_> depends on what he's trying to attract
<brousch> werewolves?
<_stink_> mmm
<brousch> Or are you saying you want to dig your hands deep into his chestfur and give it a playful tug?
<_stink_> suddenly i see your point
<snap-l> _stink_: I think you mean you can't unsee his point.
<brousch> Why are you guys looking at my point? Don't make me put pants on.
<_stink_> good thing years of scientific training has ruined my imagination.
<rick_h_> snow squals wooo
<jrwren> he doea not look homeless.
<jcastro> n0p: hey
<jrwren> "gracefully on different screen sizes and resolutions"  HOW did THey DO THAT?!?!
<snap-l> jrwren: The desktop is a responsive web page. ;)
<jrwren> oh.
<snap-l> Actually, I'm not sure how they did that, but I have a feeling that might not be that far off
<snap-l> SVG all the things
<jrwren> i look forward to hearing about an official dev kit :)
<snap-l> I'm surprised more devices don't do SVG natively
<snap-l> that and how Apple does their graphcis (PDF / Postscript) seem like the best way to tackle different resolutions.
<jrwren> its not how apple does different resolutions though.
<snap-l> Right
<snap-l> I know that's how they scale their icons, though
<snap-l> Wonder how much work it would be to apply a SVG-like canvas to mobile devices
<snap-l> so instead of saying "plot this bitmap at 40x50", you could say "object blah blah is this size relative to the canvas, and is relatively in this position"
<snap-l> maybe my request answers my question of how much work it would be. ;)
<brousch> You can make a GUI using percentages and relative sizes with Kivy
<jrwren> snap-l: no, you are wrong.
<jrwren> that is now how apple scales their icons.
<jrwren> at least not on iOS.
<jrwren> apple does not scale their icons.
<jrwren> you ship every needed icon resolution with your appl.
<snap-l> jrwren: On OSX I believe that's how it works
<jrwren> with your app.
<snap-l> Yeah, and I think that's dumb. :)
<jrwren> yeah, on OSX, it must.
<jrwren> i mean zooming the dock is the example, right?
<snap-l> right
<snap-l> I know that's how it's done on Android, because when I dumped JoDee's SD card for images there were a ton of differnet sized icons
<brousch> http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/ui_guidelines/icon_design.html
<brousch> You need like half a dozen different icons, and then you need to make them for multiple different densities
<snap-l> yeah, that's dumb
<snap-l> SVG all the things. ;)
<brousch> They suggest you use a vector image so that making all the static images will be easier
<snap-l> I know this is probably to help make slower devices not have to work so hard, but I'd prefer it to render that stuff on the fly
<brousch> a real developer would create one SVG and automate making the little ones from it
<brousch> Actually a real developer would write a program to generate the SVG and the little ones
<snap-l> A better way would be to have the environment handle this stuff so the developer didn't have to work so hard. :)
<snap-l> And the resolution problem would disappear overnight
<brousch> Well really it's the designer working hard, so who cares?
<snap-l> Just seems like we make things hard on purpose.
<jrwren> anyone deal with ubuntu preseed or kickstart and have any recommendations for me?
<jrwren> gah, wtf, this can't 404, not allowed!  http://people.canonical.com/~kirkland/
<snap-l> He's no longer with Canonical, afaik
 * greg-g has a new email
<greg-g> greg@wikimedia.org ;)
<jrwren> congrats greg-g
<jrwren> when are you moving to AA? ;]
<greg-g> give me a little time.... ;)
<snap-l> Is that a promise? :)
<greg-g> well, not totally, only a "not-SF" promise, destination may be non-A2 in the end
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-20
<jrwren> greg-g: portland is too big
<jrwren> don't go to portland. aa loves U
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> I don't think portland is an option
<greg-g> somewhere we could buy land, like a decent amount
<jrwren> oh a farm! awesome.
<jrwren> yeah, farm land around AA is not cheap :(
<greg-g> yeah, apparently MI farmland has been going up in the last few years :/
<greg-g> rick_h_: still an awesome user, right? mind sharing your config (again). I have an older one, just want to make sure I get the lastest rick_h_ version :)
<greg-g> I'm going to use this new laptop with Ubuntu on it as my queue to switch over
<brousch> My friend bought a horse farm near that D
<jrwren> i was hoping to see a dotfiles, but i don't. https://github.com/mitechie?tab=repositories
<slestak> sup guys
<rick_h_droid> greg-g sure in a bit. Though it's probably the same. my awesome config is one I don't tweak much.
<rick_h_droid> jrwren yea too much work making sure stuff is sanitized so no full dot files repo. though there is vim and some zshrc in there
<rick_h_droid> slestak howdy
<slestak> i asked over in #ubuntu, not getting any love.  did the service name for smaba change in upstart?
<slestak> trying to restart samba, and sudo service smbd restart cannot find smbd
<slestak> i know samba is installed, smbtree gives me output
<rick_h_droid> hmm tab complete and look
<rick_h_droid> can also look in the upstart dir. /etc/init? somewhere in there
<slestak> lemme take a look, i thought upstart moved stuff out of init.d so i didnt trust that
<rick_h_droid> not init.d but init or something in there.
<slestak> hrm, im sorry.  i did _not_ have it installed.  assumption is a terrible thing
<rick_h_droid> doh
<slestak> i thought since i had an /etc/samba/smb.conf that i surely had samba installed
<jrwren> slestak: smbd and nmbd
<greg-g> rick_h_droid: gotcha, thanks, I'll just do some testing tomorrow/later this week (ramping up is *hard*) ;)
<rick_h_droid> greg-g yea but good time to do it
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> especially since I can't stand Unity, and GNOME Shell isn't well supported :)
<snap-l> Evening
<snap-l> Having fun editing an interview together
<slestak_> hiya
<snap-l> Hello
<jrwren> ?
<slestak_> i was just responding to snap-l's "evening"
<jrwren> who has two thumbs and a no questions asked ubuntu iso that will completely wipe a server and put ubuntu on it just by booting the cd/usb?
<snap-l> nice
<jrwren> entire install and first boot to login prompt in 3:30
<jrwren> that minutes and seconds, not hours and minutes :)
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> I thought it was bushels and hectares
<jrwren> its fast when its all SSD and a VM
<jrwren> could be stone/lb
<shakes808> Good morning all
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/2249/detail/
<rick_h_> coolio
<rick_h_> kind of cool Glass video put together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v1uyQZNg2vE
<snap-l> If anyone wants to schedule up a hangouot for the GJ, please feel free to add an event, or if you can't add an event, please let me know and I'll add it for you.
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems/comments/18ttyq/i_want_to_watch_porn_but_i_cant_get_alsa_to_only/
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Gl1_FdmJZ-M# <- Something to consider for your newfound front-end designs
<snap-l> rick_h_: ^^
<Blazeix> wait a second, this has nothing to do with zerg. how disappointing
<snap-l> Even more disappointing is I think they're serious
<snap-l> The Oakland mirror is severely behind
<snap-l> My laptop was using that server. i just switched to the US server, and I have 625MB of files to download
<rick_h_> snap-l: lol
<rick_h_> man I can't finish that video
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Gl1_FdmJZ-M#
<snap-l> Bah,
<snap-l> https://blogs.oracle.com/henrik/entry/oracle_jdk_7u15_and_6u41 and https://blogs.oracle.com/henrik/entry/java_6_eol_h_h
<snap-l> Apparently Java BSE (Broken Sandbox Edition) is the only supported version
<brousch> Are you kidding me? 13 came out like 2 weeks ago and I never saw 14
<snap-l> Java is fucked, m'kay?
<snap-l> I don't know what they did to Java 7, but apparently the sandbox is now a colander.
<snap-l> Gr, upgrade borked the OS
<snap-l> UEFI == U Expect Failure Installing
<brousch> bork bork bork
<jrwren> how do you guys work at canonical?
<jrwren> getting 503's here and slow response: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/raring/usb-creator/raring/files/head:/usbcreator/backends/
<brousch> jrwren: They use the private portal, of course
<greg-g> they all have a local copy of LP running on their laptops
<greg-g> it's the hidden secret that LP *actually* federates
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, sometimes faster to bzr branch than to browse. loggerhead sucks
<snap-l> loggerhead was great for showing branch differences on small code differences
<snap-l> I couldn't fathom it actually doing large changes.
<rick_h_> ok, everyone must go watch the daily show from yesterday. This spot on the russia dash cams is cracking me up
<rick_h_> OMG that was just great
<jrwren> i just wish browsing with loggerhead was as fast as github
<rick_h_> *just* wish :P
<brousch> I gotta say I'm a little disappointed that rick_h_ hasn't converted Canonical to git yet
<jrwren> +1
<rick_h_> because I'm a loser, get over it
<jrwren> that is one of the last words i'd use to describe you
<brousch> Maybe if you spent less time working wood and more time pimping git, it would be done by now
<rick_h_> yea, priorities...I suck :P
<snap-l> There are only so many rocks to push up the hill
 * snap-l will now call rick_h_ Sisyphus. ;)
<snap-l> without the deceit bit
<rick_h_> " He also killed travellers and guests" so who's coming over for my birthday? hah!
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> "come to my woodshop"
<snap-l> "... and over there is chippy"
<snap-l> "chippy hates bad people"
<snap-l> "he eats bad people"
<rick_h_> I've been reading too much WoT lately. All I can think is that the Aiel would love this idea of a boulder that can never be pushed to the top.
<rick_h_> and waldo's not here to appreciate it damn
<jrwren> i'm adding an answer to this which is absolutely INSANE!  http://askubuntu.com/questions/21303/create-usb-installer-from-the-command-line
<jrwren> where WoT is Wheel of Time ?
<jrwren> whose got two thumbs and just wrote usb-creator-cli in an hour?
<snap-l> Didin't know you had two thumbs
<snap-l> s/two thumbs/only two thumbs/
<jrwren> rick_h_: you know evan.da?
<jrwren> bzr blame says he writes old style classes :p
<jrwren> http://askubuntu.com/a/258954/1668   IM CRAZY!
<Blazeix> in vim, does anybody know of a way that "4 Shift+V" in vim would visually select 16 lines?
<Blazeix> i mean, it's not a valid command, normally, should just enter visual line mode
<Blazeix> but on this machine "<N> Shift+V" is selecting 4N lines
<Blazeix> can't figure out if there's some weird arcane vim setting i'm missing
<snap-l> Damn machine keeps locking up for no reason.
<snap-l> Moved my USB keyboard to PS/2 so homefully I can give it the vulcan nerve pinch to see if I can get it to tell me what the hell happened
<widox> Blazeix: that's weird - is it always 16 lines?
<widox> I just tried it, and any number goes the the EOF
<greg-g> so, when's Ubuntu going to finally migrate to the better wiki engine? http://ryandlane.com/blog/2013/02/19/openstack-wiki-migration/
<greg-g> jcastro, rick_h_ ^^^ ;)
<jcastro> the will is there
<jcastro> the time and resources, not so much
<greg-g> good the will is there, cuz man, moinmoin is a pain
<jcastro> I know dude
<jcastro> It turns contributors away
<jcastro> however
<jcastro> As we start to dogfood on OpenStack ...
<jcastro> moving to MW with our awesome MW charm on production
<jcastro> would be an awesome win
<jcastro> so I've just sent a mail to Robbie asking if I can investigate
<greg-g> ahh, nice
<jcastro> any idea the state of moin->MW tools?
<greg-g> honest to god question, jcastro, juju for major scale sites (eg: 5th more visited in the world): inherently not a good idea, or not? I imagine there is so much custom stuff here at WMF that it wouldn't make sense in any real level deployment way, but, what do you think?
<greg-g> jcastro: given Ryan Lane just migrated the OpenStack wiki to MW, I assume "usable"
 * greg-g is forcing himself to ask the dumb sounding questions
<jcastro> greg-g: we're redoing the charm based on the deployment recommendations from MWF
<jcastro> so yeah, I do want to go there
<jcastro> and I want to present this to MW at some point
<greg-g> whoa, really?
<jcastro> yeah dude!
<jcastro> We're not making this tool for rick's blog, this is high end stuff yo
<greg-g> so, uh... is this discussion happening somewhere I could follow along?
<jcastro> just not right now. :)
<jcastro> no
<jcastro> I haven't approached anyone yet
 * greg-g nods
<jcastro> because the charm is not finished yet
<jcastro> but marco is working on it
<jcastro> we can do all sorts of shit with it though
<jcastro> http://jujucharms.com/charms/precise/mediawiki
<jcastro> slave db's, memcached, etc.
<jcastro> it's all there
<jcastro> we just need to get it finished enough to be like "ok, now check it out and tell us what sucks"
<jcastro> if I came to you too early it'd be like, "nice try castro, give me something real."
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> yeah, so, did you see what my new role is?
<greg-g> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
<jcastro> LOL
<jcastro> so what you are saying is
<jcastro> you're the guy to talk to anyway
<greg-g> haha, not completely, but yeah, I'd love to be a noisy on the discussion
<jcastro> yeah so tldr, the Go rewrite of juju is almost done, so give it maybe 6 months before seriously looking at it. Though the charm you can start to rip apart as soon as marco finishes it RSN.
<greg-g> awesome
<jcastro> we're dogfooding all this stuff anyway, but I'm not quite yet comfortable telling people to play with it yet.
<jcastro> but afaik we have guys in Canonical with access to your openstack stuff anyway where they can test stuff
<jcastro> so it's probably just a matter of getting the conversation going
<jcastro> but man, I'm going to ask Ryan for all the migration details at ODS
<jcastro> I would love to moin -> MW/OpenStack/Juju
<jcastro> greg-g: are you coming to scale?
<greg-g> no :(
<greg-g> I probably won't be doing much travel initially
<greg-g> shit... forgot to submit something... one sec...
<greg-g> (re travel to a hackathon in Amsterdam)
<greg-g> done
<greg-g> and time to go home :)
 * greg-g does the 8-4 shift, because of, you know, Rowan
<greg-g> jcastro: but, there are WMF people going
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-21
<jcastro> which ones?
<jcastro> I can link up with one of them
<jcastro> now that like half my friends work at MWF apparently, lol
<greg-g> Ryan isn't, unfortunately, but marktraceur (developer) is
<greg-g> haha, yeah, luis, quim, me :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: lol, no, no aware of evan that I know of.
<rick_h_> greg-g: you're talking to the wrong guy, I'm not a MW fan :/
<jcastro> rick_h_: I hate all wikis, MW is the least sucky though
<rick_h_> jcastro: I've used a few and it's the bottom of my list tbh. But yea, wikis suck as a general rule
<jcastro> rick_h_: so you saw discourse right?
<jcastro> atwood's new thing?
<jcastro> he's always whined about wikis too, but he chose to fix forums first
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I looked at it briefly but didn't do much with it.
<jcastro> hahah rick_h_
<jcastro> I didn't know this
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/a/256789/235
<jcastro> I always go into insert mode
<rick_h_> jcastro: ah, yea I have it mapped to ,p and ,y for yank/paste
<rick_h_> test
<rick_h_> hmmm, someone ping me pls
<widox> rick_h_: ping
<rick_h_> thanks
<snap-l> rick_h_: poing
<snap-l> jcastro: Discourse looks awesome.
<jcastro> yeah, it's sweet
<jcastro> well, going to be sweet
<jcastro> even unfinished it's better than half the junk out there
<snap-l> Yeah, and if there's another option besides phpbb and vbulletin, I'm all for it
<snap-l> because while phpbb and vbulletin are... forums... I'd like something else
<snap-l> and the wordpress forum software is wokny
<snap-l> wonky
<jrwren> i just hate forums
<jrwren> i don't find them usable.
<rick_h_> meh, they work for what they do.
<snap-l> It depends on the forum, honestly
<snap-l> Mornin
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yes
<slestak> mmhm
<slestak> it is a morning =)
<snap-l> OK, the power went out at the building
<snap-l> swear to god, one of the folks here called someone else in the building to say "Hey, the power went out"
<snap-l> and rick_h_ can attest that the person who called did not need the phone.
<jrwren> jcastro: greg-g: I'm interested in your moinmoin to MW upgrade. we have an ancient moinmoin here which we would like to migrate
<jrwren> but no one is willing to tackle it.
<jrwren> we would probably pay $$$ to either of you in professional services if you care to consult on it.
<brousch> Moinmoin to mediawiki?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea
<brousch> Is there no other Python wiki to switch to?
<snap-l> Well this is fun
<snap-l> power keeps going out at work
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/jezdez/status/304609829354340352 and why I hate it when people throw "django has reusable apps" as the big reason to use it
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, time to go home and be more productive :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think a strong case could be made. :)
<brousch> rick_h_: Some of them work, but most don't go through the extra work of making the app general purpose
<brousch> At least you can fork them and have someplace to start
<snap-l> God, our Copyright system is broken: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(film)#Copyright_issues
<greg-g> rick_h_: you guys have set code review days, right?
<greg-g> like, "today I review code instead of writing it"
<rick_h_> greg-g: so we used to have a day on launchpad. Not currently
<rick_h_> greg-g: but yea, to spread things out we each had a given day and our boss was to let that day be kind of a slack/code review day. Not much productivity expected
<greg-g> rick_h_: interesting, quasi 20% time?
<rick_h_> greg-g: well, since you never knew if you'd have a bunch of reviews of a few it was hard for a manager to plan
<greg-g> right, good point
<rick_h_> so plan on no productivity and if a dev had time, try to work on some low priority stuff that would be nice to have (dev tool, testing, etc) that wouldn't matter if it didn't get done until a week later or what not
<greg-g> "luckily" we have tons of code in our review backlog from the community
<rick_h_> so not really 20% in that "work on whatever you want..." but "spend the day reviewing and making things better"
 * greg-g nods
<Blazeix> that new chromebook pixel is shiny
<rick_h_> pixel is pretty and I'd love to have a high res display, but no way I want to touch it and no way at that price point. Cost as much as the x230 I just got the wife and the plus on the pixel is the screen. Let me spend $200 more on the screen on an x230 please!
<rick_h_> and usb2? ugh
<rick_h_> 2560 x 1700 though..../me dreams of that on my 21" desktop display...
<Blazeix> $1299 doesn't seem too bady price-wise
<Blazeix> s/bady/bad/
<rick_h_> it's full laptop at that point though. Not second/sub laptop. I can't get people to spend that now on a laptop
<Blazeix> for a core i5 / 4Gb ram
<Blazeix> that is a full laptop
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, but chromeos
<rick_h_> I guess if lenovo or dell came out with this and it was meant for me to work on I'd look at it differently
<Blazeix> true
<rick_h_> I like the idea of the chromeos machines, but as secondary computers
<Blazeix> though i'm sure people will have ubuntu running on it in no time
<rick_h_> and it's about 2x for a seconday imo and I'm one willing to spend $$
<rick_h_> Blazeix: right, but when I put ubuntu on it I'm going to want to get my 240GB SSD on there
<rick_h_> but yea, it looks pretty, love the display, boo on touch. 5hrs for that seems just a hair low.
<Blazeix> i wonder if its ssd is proprietary
<Blazeix> but yeah, once you start upgrading it that's a whole can of worms
<rick_h_> wonder how much LTE you're getting at the higher price piont
<rick_h_> hmmm, maybe if I used a desktop by day this would make a good laptop for travel/etc
<rick_h_> I wonder how far the shell stuff on these has come
<rick_h_> The team, for example, added a third microphone to the device so it not only cancels out background noise, but also the noise you make yourself when you type on the keyboard
<rick_h_> heh, definitely seems cool
<snap-l> I'd spend $1500 if I knew someone would have durable Linux installs on it
<snap-l> $1500 for a Google Terminal is a bit too much
<snap-l> Hell, over $150 is too much, IMHO
<snap-l> but that's because I'm cheap
<jrwren> can't i just remove chromeos from it and install ubuntu?
 * greg-g is in awesome now
<jrwren> jcastro: ping
<snap-l> Just used the words "exceptionally uninterested in whatever marketing solutions you might have" to respond to some schmuck who wanted to put ads on OMC.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-22
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> Picked up the DVDs of THe Lord of the Rings for $6 each
<snap-l> over at B&N
<snap-l> I was going to wait for the super-duper-extended-every-single-scrap-of-film edition, but frankly at $6 a pop, I couldn't care less about the rest. :)
<rick_h_> evening wheee
<snap-l> Evening
<snap-l> Hello!
<snap-l> This is bdayd, your Birthday Reminder Daemon.
<snap-l> The following people have their birthday TODAY:
<snap-l> Rick Harding (turns 5!)
<snap-l> Happy Birthday, rick_h_ !!!
<brousch> snap-l: You beat Google+ on the announcement (to me)
<brousch> I'm ready to subscribe to the snap-l+ birthday reporting service
<snap-l> bdayd
<snap-l> http://snarfed.org/bday
<snap-l> http://netmeister.org/apps/bday/ <- better link
<brousch> You'll never make a living reporting birthdays if you just refer me to your competitors
<snap-l> That's what I'm using. :)
<snap-l> Yay, another kernel upgrade!
<snap-l> security upgrade
<snap-l> Ubuntu Touch Port-a-thon?
<snap-l> really?
<brousch> Whose ports are we touching?
<snap-l> Which way to the portathon
<snap-l> I need to take a code-dump
<brousch> http://slashdot.org/story/13/02/21/2216221/microsoft-azure-overtakes-amazons-cloud-in-performance-test
<snap-l> Apparently Microsoft has more unused computers than Amazon
<snap-l> who knew?
<snap-l> Maybe that's one of the reasons Microsoft wants Windows 8 adoption: because every Windows 8 machine has a little Azure micro-instance in it that will allow it to scale out Azure computing
<snap-l> THat's why they have that impenetrable user interface! So nobody will suspect a thing
<snap-l> Damn you Microsoft!
<brousch> genius
<snap-l> OK, this is getting out of hand
<snap-l> There's now an Amazon Vinyl Delivery Service.
<brousch> Finally
<rick_h_> woot, the weather knows it best snow on my birthday so I can go play in it!
<brousch> I thought you wanted to move to Portland to escape the snow
<snap-l> Blazeix: I'm liking the Xonotic newbie tutorials.
<snap-l> This is definitely proving that I don't know what the hell I'm doing when it comes to FPS. :)
<snap-l> http://www.xonotic.org/2013/02/halogenes-newbie-corner-part-5-gameplay-tips/
<rick_h_> brousch: no, escape the heat. Snow I'm fine with
<brousch> ah
<snap-l> brousch: Just remember: rick_h_ is strange. :)
<brousch> Well there's a whole country made for him, just a bit north of here.
<rick_h_> but portland has broadband :P
<snap-l> So does Kansas
<rick_h_> true...but back to the heat
<rick_h_> and hicks
<snap-l> As opposed to the hips.
<rick_h_> ok, time to go find somewhere to go and play in the snow. Anyone want to meet up at Famous Dave's for lunch let me know :)
<brousch> Don't you have work to do?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Bah, too far. :)
<snap-l> Though we had impromptu Lockharts last night.
<brousch> So is Linus getting more crotchety with age, or did I just not see it before? http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1445369/focus=1445405
<rick_h_> brousch: nope, birthday == holiday
<rick_h_> brousch: don't work on your birthday, it's not good for you.
<brousch> What kind of elementary school thing is that?
<rick_h_> though maybe I'll find a coffee shop and hack on something fun after lunch
<snap-l> brousch: I think you're just now noticing
<snap-l> This is typical Linus. :)
<snap-l> "This is fucking stupid, you should do this elsewhere", and then the conversation proceeds.
<snap-l> It would figure today is the day I'm getting a bunch of packages
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, same here.
<snap-l> I'll be surprised if I don't get a flaming bag of shit on the doorstop
<rick_h_> guess it'll be later in the afternoon now, no sense hanging around for them
<jjesse> rick_h_,  how long did you pebble take to ship?  or did your notification come after it arrived?  i just got the 48 hours to confirm your shipping address and i'm going to be gone next week
<jjesse> and wondering if i should ship it to the hotel
<snap-l> jjesse: Resist the temptation. :)
<snap-l> Otherwise you'll have pebble-limbo
<jjesse> yeah
<jjesse> so this happened w/ my Nexus 7
<jjesse> it arrived when i was on the road
<snap-l> It'll be there when you get back
<jjesse> well its shipping to the office so i don't know if the idiots I work w/ will hid it :)
<snap-l> Why did you have it shipped there?
<jjesse> because UPS/FedEx tends to not leave packages at my door if someone isn't home
<snap-l> That sucks
<jjesse> yeah it does hence the shipping of stuff to the office
<snap-l> Mine tends to leave things without too much problem.
<snap-l> I think I need to start up a renderfarm or something. This room is cold.
<Blazeix> i've got this sweet websphere environment you can use
<snap-l> Awesome. :)
<snap-l> Or I could just start up flash
<brousch> Oh wow "Ubuntu Touch relies on a stripped-down version of CyanogenMod 10.1 for its Linux kernel, and support for hardware including audio, video, graphics, and modems."
<slestak> brousch: is that a good thing?
<brousch> I don't see how it's bad
<slestak> just wondered what your take was.  ive not had a phoen that could use cyanogenmod so wasnt sure
<tony-smlr> brousch: do you have an artical that talks about ubuntu touch?  I want to talk about it on my show this week...
<brousch> tony-smlr: I was quoting from this one http://liliputing.com/2013/02/canonical-offers-guide-for-porting-ubuntu-touch-to-run-on-most-android-devices.html
<tony-smlr> brousch: thanks!
<jrwren> where "most android" is galaxy nexus devices
<snap-l> Well, fedex will be on my list in a few
<snap-l> jcastro: http://www.rushisaband.com/blog/2013/02/19/3508/Rush-Clockwork-Angels-official-Summer-tour-date-announcement
<snap-l> Van Andel Arena in beautiful brousch-ville
<snap-l> Your current billing cycle ending in 4 days is at $39.00
<snap-l> That's three phones
<Blazeix> re: linux on the pixel https://plus.google.com/u/1/100479847213284361344/posts/QhmBpn5GNE9
<Blazeix> oh, and happy birthday rick_h_ !
<rick_h_> thanks Blazeix
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-23
<snap-l> great. Now my keyboard is "Estimated Delivery: N/A"
<snap-l> Way to go Fed Ex
<derekv> things installed by pip not having man pages
<derekv> pip not having a man page
<derekv> i have a file from pip freeze, how do I install it into my virtualenv?
<derekv> nvm found it
<derekv> man page would be nice
<rick_h_> ccccccbgjgvddjnegkktkddhndcjvgkcd
<rick_h_> snap-l: doh, not good
<rick_h_> derekv: nothing in python/etc has a man page. It's got sphinx docs and --help
<derekv> I don't want to remember special rules for python.  if blash is a command I can run from shell, I want to be able to 'man blah' and get a good amount of information
<derekv> pip install help
<derekv> or rather
<derekv> pip install
<derekv> then figuring out I need to do pip help install or something off like that
<derekv> to get more information
<derekv> nvm, not just python obviously.  sestemic problem
<derekv> everyone has their agenda of how they think everything should work
<derekv> including me
<derekv> even when it breaks the expectations of others
<derekv> intractable bs
<derekv> like gnu and info pages
<jrwren> YAY!
<snap-l> Mon 2/25/2013
<snap-l> That's when the keyboard is now estimated for delivery
<snap-l> A....r....g.....h......
<rick_h_> snap-l: :(
<snap-l> Oh well. :)
<rwmck> hi
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-24
<brousch> Oh this would suck "Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer has instituted a HR plan today to require Yahoo employees who work remotely to relocate to company facilities. The move will apparently impact several hundred employees, who must either comply without exception or presumably quit."
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live!  Video: http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=GT2ow-lQkmw  - Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> ugh, morning
<brousch>          Snowman!
<slestak> brousch: one more reason i _hate_ yahoo
<brousch> eh?
<slestak> your post from last night
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/0f7f8bf4f9f35b kind of cool review on the phone stuff
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-17
<rick_h_> lol http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=4867#1.0
<rick_h_> jrwren: might appreciate ^
<rick_h_> or at least get a smile out of it
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I swear if anyone decides to use this plugin I will rip their hard drive out of their computer and beat them to death with it.
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> I can laugh at it
<cmaloney> I used to think that Tabs were OK
<cmaloney> and it was a good way for the two spacers and the eight spacers to co-exist
<cmaloney> no more
<rick_h_> heh, over time you get converted
<cmaloney> Yeah, when they co-mingle
<cmaloney> that's when it needs to die in a fire.
<jrwren> hahahaha
<jrwren> fuckpep8 ftw.
<rick_h_> morning party people
<jrwren> morning.
<jrwren> bagels are baking
<rick_h_> woot
<jrwren> sup with you?
<rick_h_> send one over here
<jrwren> that is a long trip. it won't be hot when we get there.
<rick_h_> fine, will settle for my egg and toast
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> the bagels are pink.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> 4-6" more due today
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> might get to use my snow blower myself today
<brousch> I don't think Detroit is getting as much
<rick_h_> yea, 1-3 depending on who you talk to
<cmaloney> I've heard anywhere from 5-10"
<rick_h_> here at least
<cmaloney> Though Wunderground is saying 3"-5"
<rick_h_> I can't wait for the warm up this week though
<brousch> I got a roof rake and used it Saturday
<brousch> Then we got 2" of snow Saturday night
<rick_h_> ugh, I've got a sheet of ice under the snow right now
<rick_h_> gutters are all ice and water melts in the sun running down the side of the house
<cmaloney> rick_h_: We have that right over our door
<brousch> Yeah, we have massive ice dams and some leaking in the house
<cmaloney> there's about an inch-thick of ice in front of our door
<brousch> Ice is literally 9-12" thick in some places on the roof
<rick_h_> almost 10 yrs living here and never had it like this
<jrwren> wtf? snow?
<jrwren> I thought it was to be 40degrees F tomorrow.
<rick_h_> but first it'll snow tonight
<rick_h_> and because it'll be warm plan on the juicy wet stuff
<jrwren> great.
<jrwren> ah, more forecast is  3 to 5 inches
<jrwren> cmaloney: recommend a squeeze player for android?
<cmaloney> There's only one player for Android that I'm aware of
<cmaloney> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.bluegaspode.squeezeplayer&hl=en
<cmaloney> jrwren: ^^
<cmaloney> There's several controller apps though
<jrwren> thanks.
<cmaloney> Actually there's one other player app, but I've never used it
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/111221966647232053570/posts/2xqmtyuCw77
<cmaloney> I'm sure that's purely for technical reasons and not that Microsoft is a proud sponsor of said olympics. :)
<rick_h_> yea, that goes over my head
<cmaloney> sorry, supplier, not sponsor
<jrwren> same reason as 4 yrs ago. MSFT does it cheaper so tehy can say that they did it insteat of AWS
<rick_h_> well that's the first time that word has been wrapped around my name http://uploads.mitechie.com/juju-engineering-manager.png
<brousch> Where's this blizzard come from?
<brousch> rick_h_: manager?
<rick_h_> yea, got peeps and such
<rick_h_> now I've got to fight to get to code vs email and do hangouts
<jrwren> oh no!
<rick_h_> kind of strange to see "manager" by my name. Not something I planned out
<jrwren> congrats rick_h_
<rick_h_> wheeee thanks
<brousch> It is the beginning of the end
<rick_h_> pretty much
<brousch> PRetty soon you'll be coding very little and will have to switch to a friendlier IDE like Eclipse
<cmaloney> man-a-ger
<rick_h_> YOU TAKE THAT BACK!
<cmaloney> brousch: Ouch. Too soon.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: will poke fun at me Wed already
<cmaloney> Nah, we'll have a wake
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> that's this weekend
<rick_h_> wine driven wake
<brousch> You'll be using Unity full time within 6 months
<rick_h_> the snow should be cleared by then for you cmaloney :P
<rick_h_> brousch: lies and lies
<rick_h_> I found out it's ok now to not use unity at sprints in front of Mark S
<cmaloney> rick_h_: knowing this winter we'll get 6" in 2 minutes.
<brousch> Calling cmaloney to help you install your new mouse
<rick_h_> lmao
<cmaloney> "I can't seem to get this you-ess-bee cable into this port. It says "H. D. Me"
<cmaloney> "This should be a HD mouse right?"
<cmaloney> "Is this zip file the same as a zip drive?"
<rick_h_> love how these guys ask opinions and feedback from such a mentally challenged person as myself :P
<rick_h_> I'm the best info you can get? You're all in trouble now.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Actually I see it as having a bigger hammer to swing at work
<brousch> cmaloney: Zip drive? You're dating yourself
<cmaloney> brousch: Is that why I never call.
<brousch> Yes, because you're a jerk
<cmaloney> I KNEW IT!
<cmaloney> God, I just took a look in this keyboard. Apparently I'm a slob too.
<rick_h_> heh, I had keyboard cleaning this weekend
<rick_h_> new air spray cans arrived
<cmaloney> nice!
<brousch> 55F and raining in Portland
<rick_h_> brousch: sure sounds nice doesn't it :P
<jrwren> i'd rather have snow than rain.
<jrwren> dreary portlandia
<brousch> i PREFER RAIN
<brousch> Sorry
<jrwren> can't sled in rain
<rick_h_> no, but you can hike in the rain. You can see your lawn in the rain, you don't have to go out and shovel rain. A light rain jacket > "OMG it's -6 where is my thermal underpants"
<rick_h_> but really, I'd perfer the rain to the "OMG it's too hot to open the doors"
<rick_h_> the cold I can deal with
<brousch> jrwren: They have mountains with snow for sledding
<mrgoodcat> if i'm interested in creating a desktop application (because i don't have an ubuntu phone) am I still best off going to developer.ubuntu.com? it seems mostly targeted at phablet
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, but it works on the desktop. It's in progress but might be interesting to start out with
<mrgoodcat> ok thats what i figured
<mrgoodcat> thanks though
<mrgoodcat> hrm... i'm trying to do the tutorial and can't get the touch template to show up in the Ubuntu SDK
<rick_h_> here comes the snow
<rick_h_> 12hrs to see how much falls wheee
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: where are you? no snow here yet
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: clarkston, up by DTE
<mrgoodcat> not far from me. i'm in bloomfield
<mrgoodcat> no falling ice here though
<cmaloney> Blargh. Trying to get a room at the Blackwell for PyOhio.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, get two
<cmaloney> Can't on the site.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: all kinds
<rick_h_> kings
<rick_h_> you always had to call anyway to get the room rate
<cmaloney> ah, kk
<brousch> cmaloney: You'll have to call like last year, I suspect
<mrgoodcat> i can't get the ubuntu touch templates to show up in the sdk. I have tried a few "solutions" from the internet but nothing has worked. anybody have this issue?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: not tried it to be honest. Jump into the dev irc channel. Sure you can get some help.
<rick_h_> #ubuntu-touch
<mrgoodcat> the #ubuntu-app-devel channel seems to be no help so far
<mrgoodcat> i've been completely ignored...
<rick_h_> well it is a US holiday and it's 11pm ish for the EU folks
<rick_h_> so timing isn't great but can try
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Sorted.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: cool, got a room then?
<cmaloney> Got two rooms, one for you and one for us
<rick_h_> cmaloney: bah I was just kidding
<cmaloney> Hey, one less thing to worry about. :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: k, let me know what I owe you then. Thanks for reserving it
<cmaloney> np. I think you can change the credit card if needed.
<cmaloney> 25th-27th of July.
<cmaloney> They're sending me a confirmation email so will forward.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: cool thanks
<rick_h_> heh, website is still 2013
<cmaloney> forwarded.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: you rock!
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Thanks. :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: http://pycon.blogspot.ca/2014/02/pycon-dinner-registration.html ?
<cmaloney> Did you want to head to one of those dinners?
<rick_h_> thinking on it, just saw it
<cmaloney> I'm up for it if you decide on one or the other.
<rick_h_> was checking out a montreal travel book. I want to get out and have some fun
<rick_h_> not sure what you're up to or what not, but figure balance out some coding with some good dinners :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I am up for most things.
<rick_h_> ok, getting 2 tickets for the second one. Don't know him so should be more surprising
<cmaloney> Ok cool.
<cmaloney> LMK if they need cash up-front and I'll send you some cash
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EmilyVitori/posts/XEaYd8N3gTD
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-18
<cmaloney> greg-g: You might get yourt post-rock episode sooner than you think. ;)
<greg-g> yay
<cmaloney> May be tinged with stoner metal / psychadelic metal
<cmaloney> greg-g: Actually I think it's going to be another mix episode
<cmaloney> Wait... I think I hit the motherlode. :)
<rick_h_> http://vimeo.com/86812942 must resist the urge to buy toy now! That's so cool. No whales around here though. Just blizzards
<cmaloney> rick_h_: You got bitten by the RC bug hard didn't you?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: I've avoided going nuts so far :)
<cmaloney> I'm surprised you haven't gone further, honestly.
<cmaloney> There's the convergence between wood-working and plane building that I thought would be your crack
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> Music is my crack. Just spent way too much money for this episode.
<rick_h_> heh, that's ok. Amazon is loving me today as well. Always something
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's the other thing.
<cmaloney> Had to get a drum for the printer on an emergency-basis.
<cmaloney> it's putting lines on the pages.
<rick_h_> speaking of amazon. time to go sit down with more books on how not to suck at running a team/project.
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> well, should be good for a while now
<cmaloney> Yeah, it was due anyway
<cmaloney> 18% done
<cmaloney> 18% left rater
<cmaloney> rather
<cmaloney> greg-g: I think you're going to like this episode a lot.
<cmaloney> it mixes sludge, doom, black metal, and post rock / post metal.
<cmaloney> and each song is over 8 minutes long. :)
<cmaloney> This episode of Open Metalcast is over 1:30
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2014/02/17/open-metalcast-episode-90-long-playing-record/ <- greg-g
<greg-g> cmaloney: yay
<greg-g> cmaloney: oh man, and now I feel special, being named in the post :)
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> ug
<rick_h_> +1
<rick_h_> was up at 5am clearing the the drive for the wife
<rick_h_> will need nap time later
<brousch> 1 more inch and I'd be stuck in the road
<rick_h_> oh yea?
<rick_h_> glad you made it
<brousch> Main roads are plowed, but side roads are not, so it's slushy snow and plow walls at intersections
<rick_h_> yea, that's the fun stuff
<rick_h_> main roads were boring
<brousch> Had to blast through to get to day care
<rick_h_> yea, definitely a good year to drive a big car with big snow tires
<brousch> I have new all-season tires. Doing well so far
<rick_h_> yea, good year for new tires as well. Would suck with the way it's been so snowy/cold/icy with tires on their last legs
<brousch> I was out shoveling last night. Guy across the street and I were laughing as he tried to throw snow over his 9ft tall wall of snow
<brousch> Have to scoop, turn your back to the wall, throw it backwards over your head
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> He is up hill, so he has a wall taller than my big piles
<rick_h_> nice, yea, I love the snow but I'm getting annoyed with having to do planned shoveling passes to try to even out the snow hills
<rick_h_> and the mailbox area is full of fail
<rick_h_> I'm waiting for them to just stop delivering
<brousch> I got a notice last week. Today they will fail because I can only see a fist-sized area of the mailbox
<brousch> I need to rake the roof again tonight. That sucks
<brousch> My wife wanted to shovel last night. She did about 15ft and quit, saying she felt like she was going to puke
<rick_h_> heh, my wife always says she'll help
<rick_h_> but it's more of a "I'll shovel some path down the drive" vs really clearing it
<brousch> To be fair, she started at the end with huge piles and is 6" shorter than I am
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> way to setup to get her back inside to prepare your hot tea
<brousch> mulled wine
<cmaloney> Yeah, we didn't get as much as I thought we might
<cmaloney> though I haven't shoveled it yet.
<brousch> It's getting deceptive. It didn't looke like much until I went out there
<brousch> Size of the snow banks is making things seem smaller
<rick_h_> hah, hills among mountains
<rick_h_> yea, we got a few good inches, but not the 6+ on the high end
<brousch> I shoveled 4" last night and there was another 1" this morning
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2014/02/17/open-metalcast-episode-90-long-playing-record/
<cmaloney> If you like longer songs you're in for a treat. :)
<jrwren> shorter is easier to shovel.
<jrwren> i'm too tall so the angle of the shovel is not right so I have to bend down which is a back breaker.
<brousch> Get a bigger shovel
<jrwren> it was a nice workout this morning. If I had to do that every morning, I'd be in good shape.
<jrwren> I'd not be able to lift a bigger shovel.
<brousch> I have one with a special bent handle
<jrwren> maybe a longer handle would help
<jrwren> oh so THAT is what the handle bend is for.
<rick_h_> no, small. best thing ever http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A28780/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<rick_h_> bent handle is fail
<rick_h_> did that for 4 years
<brousch> I like it better than my old straight handle
<rick_h_> get big to push to the edge, then go small to lift over the pile
<jrwren> rick_h_: I don't get it. what is special about that one?
<rick_h_> jrwren: it's really light and small for getting the pile from the edge up/over the hills
<brousch> That one has no edges. flinging over your head backwards will take forever
<jrwren> mine is also 22 or 24". 18" is small.
<rick_h_> right, to be light
<jrwren> got it.
<jrwren> I'll keep my back breaker and call it me working out :)
<jrwren> I want to stay young
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> lmorchard: bookie has CORS support :P (just seeing the thread on pinboard about it)
<rick_h_> of course trevlar had to ask for it to get it put in
<rick_h_> widox: my email says to congrat you on 3yrs at work so I obey :P
<widox> rick_h_: hehe - thanks
<rick_h_> stupid linkedin emails
<widox> they seem to be multiplying, too
<cmaloney> I'm glad I deleted my account
<widox> jobs, groups to join. blah
<cmaloney> widox: You might have missed them in the 10x other emails.
<widox> but, but the networking opportunities cmaloney!
<rick_h_> heh
<cmaloney> widox: as opposed to, oh I dunno, talking to people?
<rick_h_> people are over rated, it's connections that count
<rick_h_> moar connections!
<greg-g> I hit 500+, so any more doesn't help me :(
<rick_h_> well greg-g is set for life
<cmaloney> greg-g is so connected pretty soon we'll call him Ma Bell.
<widox> whew, we are amongst a celeb here. greg-g  ;)
<widox> pretty sure I've only got a handful or so
<greg-g> I gotta disconnect from some people, clean up this shit (or just leave)
<cmaloney> NOOOO!!!
<greg-g> I did the conference stuff for a couple years, that gets 'em in
<cmaloney> (he's talking about us I'm sure)
<greg-g> cmaloney: cull the oldest connections :)
<rick_h_> hah, he's got to cut bait from the old MI losers
<cmaloney> greg-g: That's adouble-edged sword.
<cmaloney> The conference connections
<cmaloney> Some really cool people out there.
<greg-g> yeah, most of these weren't
<cmaloney> but yeah, some times I feel like my socail networking is Katamari Damacy.
<rick_h_> I'm kind of strict in my use
<greg-g> they were all K-12, state employees who heard me talk sensibly about standards
<rick_h_> I have to really know you
<cmaloney> Which is why I like Google+
<rick_h_> and even if I work with you, I might not add you if I feel I might need to be asking around for a job
<cmaloney> I can stay connected with people without actually seeing them speak. :)
<rick_h_> e.g. the 'will you keep quiet' factor
<cmaloney> rick_h_: yeah, that's tough
<rick_h_> and I never connect with a boss, unless he leaves to another company :)
<cmaloney> I've broken that rule several times over.
<cmaloney> but that's because I work with cool bosses. ;)
<cmaloney> *cough*
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> hah
<greg-g> yeah, I haven't yet used LinkedIn for any job searching at all.
<greg-g> I wish I could just export my contacts names/emails from their
<gamerchick02> oh linkedin. so many emails. i turned a lot of them off, but i might have to revisit the email settings again.
<gamerchick02> and i didn't get internet access at work; i'm at home.
<gamerchick02> i hate being sick
<gamerchick02> :(
<gamerchick02> rebooting for fun and profit, brb
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Hope you feel better.
<gamerchick02> me too. i'm not coughing as much as i was yesterday so that's good
<gamerchick02> i hate missing work. :(
<cmaloney> I can understand that.
<gamerchick02> it's better for me to be home though. i got so much sleep last night and this morning
<brousch> rick_h_: One more + for Portland https://twitter.com/yourmetjenny/status/435755065882578944/photo/1
<cmaloney> brousch: You and your "data"
<brousch> rick_h_ has me convinced. Now I have to get my wife off the idea of Hawaii
<brousch> George says "absolutely not" to Hawaii because of volcanoes and lava.
<gamerchick02> +1 to Portland
<gamerchick02> if there were jobs there i'd move in a heartbeat. not sure if there's a lot of demand for mechanical engineers. :-P
<gamerchick02> volcanoes and lava happen on the uninhabited islands anyway, brousch
<rick_h_> brousch: the good news never ends
<mrgoodcat> anybody have any idea how to backlog in irssi without page up/down?
<jrwren> like on a mac?
<jrwren> fn-up arrow.
<jrwren> because that is page up.
<jrwren> but page up is standard part of KB, you gotta have it somewehre.
<mrgoodcat> on a chromebook
<mrgoodcat> i figured out alt+up does page up
<mrgoodcat> chc is at bean and leaf correct?
<brousch> mmmm, chromebook
<mrgoodcat> i love my chromebook
<mrgoodcat> runs ubuntu just fine too :)
<brousch> What do you have? I picked up a Haswell C720 with 4GB for my son
<mrgoodcat> c720p
<mrgoodcat> same thing but touch screen
<brousch> Ah, is the touch screen useful?
<mrgoodcat> i have the 2gb version though
<mrgoodcat> the touch screen is usefull in chromeos but not in ubuntu
<brousch> I find touch screens much less useful when there's a keyboard between me and the screen
<mrgoodcat> its nice scrolling through news feeds and such
<mrgoodcat> and pinch to zoom
<brousch> I installed Crouton into a 2GB C720, but there was not enough RAM to run minecraft
<brousch> I haven't gotten around to putting it on the 4GB
<mrgoodcat> really? i use chrubuntu and haven't had problems running anything yet
<mrgoodcat> i'll try minecraft and let you know what i find out
<mrgoodcat> later tho when i'm not at work :)
<brousch> Well crouton runs xubuntu in a chroot, so ChromeOS and Ubuntu are both running
<brousch> And you can switch between ChromeOS and Xubuntu on the fly
<mrgoodcat> yea thats the way i had it running originally
<mrgoodcat> i decided i like true dual boot better
<mrgoodcat> i don't like the idea of sharing kernel space since i like to tinker too much in ubuntu
<mrgoodcat> wouldn't want to bork my chrome install
<brousch> Isn't that impossible? Just reset it to factory
<mrgoodcat> also, things like lxc didn't work
<mrgoodcat> you can't use some advanced kernel features from inside chroot
<mrgoodcat> iirc /dev/shm didn't work properly either
<mrgoodcat> i have to go now. nice talking though
<mathomastech> I'm getting stuck on a python problem. Perhaps someone can shed some insight. I have a configuration.py file with several global variables. On initial load. all other files that import that configuration file can access the variables with their correct info. However, when on one my methods change the global variable, it only changes for it's own instance. When I pass the focus to another file and it
<mathomastech> uses the global variable it still has the original value, not the updated one. How to I update global variables in a configuration file so that other files that use it can always get the latest value?
<mathomastech> Specifically, I am updated a global USER variable in a file that handles the login process, and then another file that handles the messages that user sent is doing this ---- info_buffer.insert(info_buffer.get_end_iter(), USER + ": " + chat_input)
<mathomastech> So that when it shows up in the chatlog it will have the currently logged in user's name appended to the front of their message.
<waf> a link to pastebin is worth a thousand words :)
<waf> though my first instinct is that you shouldn't use global variables like that. just pass the value along to the functions that need them
<mathomastech> Preparing one now, one sec
<mathomastech> http://pastebin.com/aZApfZxy
<mathomastech> vim cut off some of the longer lines, but all the important stuff is there
<rick_h_> +1 python files are parsed once at load. If they use the value at bootstrap it doesn't mean they'll get it again. This is what a config registry is for
<rick_h_> see stuff like pyramid that loads a registry on startup with the dict items and then the code that wants config info requests a registry instance
<mathomastech> Ok, so when I "from configuration import *", that file has only the original values, and won't update if things change?
<rick_h_> right, you've created new vars in your modules namespace
<rick_h_> check out the Mock libary, you have to update things in the namespace where it's imported to mock something out
<rick_h_> because of this issue
<cmaloney> honestly I'd not use a global configuration variable if I could get away from it
<cmaloney> maybe a module / class-level variable.
<cmaloney> and pass that around.
<cmaloney> Maybe it was one too many thwacks from Mrs. Deryckre's ruler in Pascal class but I try like hell not to have global variables.
<mathomastech> A lot of my global variables never do change. Most of it is just initializing the various components of my UI, and then a couple file directory paths. This particular global variable is the only one I have that will change after the initial launch of the application. Ill create class to handle it and reference the class instead of the global variable. Thanks!
<cmaloney> np
<cmaloney> also: I was never hit with a ruler in Mrs. Deryckre's class
<cmaloney> she could do more damage with her focused stare than any wooden or metal object.
<jrwren> don't "from module import *" its a python no-no
<mathomastech> jrwren: Why's that?
<waf> global immutable variables are fine, but as soon you start mutating them major alarm bells should be going off.
<jrwren> mathomastech: it just is.
<rick_h_> mathomastech: because you've polluted my python namespace without me realizing it
<waf> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2386714/why-is-import-bad
<rick_h_> mathomastech: I could have imported a variable "TOTAL"
<rick_h_> and if I try to use it, things now break
<rick_h_> explicit > implicit and this one is a big one
<rick_h_> every time I see import * I go fetch my "bad dev" bat
<rick_h_> it's a hint you don't know what your code is doing unless you can recite everything in * from memory...6 months from now
<rick_h_> hah, I rank #93 of 100 neighbors for effeciency...yay me wasting my electic bill dollars
<mathomastech> Perhaps so. But until my UI is finalized, and elements stop getting added/removed and the element names stop changing I think I'll import * so I don't have to refactor things in 3 different places. Its a ton easlier to refactor in just 1 location this early in its development
<rick_h_> mathomastech: just understand, it's considered bad practice. Tests should be changing withthose names, linting should be catching and hanging on them, it's a sign that the development is not moving in a good way. Not to sound too negative on it
<rick_h_> mathomastech: if I were hiring (and I have been this week) it's an automatic no go
<brousch> rick_h_: It's all of your powerful electronics, and the fact that you're home all day
<greg-g> pythonistas: what's the difference between pip install --target and --prefix ?
<rick_h_> greg-g: --prefix deprecated? I don't see it in my help or in the pip online docs?
<greg-g> huh, must be
<rick_h_> brousch: yes, it's I'm at home, the mega cold winter, and the space heaters in the garage for the woodshop
<rick_h_> nice to get "You suck!" letters from DTE. "Just take my $$ and keep quiet"
<waf> mathomastech: if you don't want to use python's built-in configuration stuff, you could also store your config settings in a dictionary called settings, then just `from configuration import settings`
<waf> then do something like settings["log_path"] or whatever
<brousch> rick_h_: I am always in the 10% of good users
<rick_h_> OMG! my home value went up for the first time since we moved in according to the tax assessment annual update
<rick_h_> waf: +1
<cmaloney> woo woo
<gamerchick02> congrats, rick_h_
<rick_h_> my plan to have some home equity before I retire is right on track!
<rick_h_> :)
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> went out to check the snow situation and there was none on my car.
<rick_h_> yea, it's a really nice day out there
<gamerchick02> got the mail and it was one of those flyers to get you into the car dealership
<rick_h_> grabbed the mail and enjoyed a few minutes of sunlight
<gamerchick02> it's beautiful, but i started coughing pretty hardcore when i got the mail
<gamerchick02> time fore some medicine! yay! (not)
<waf> ah, the good ol' poisionous car dealership flyer prank.
<gamerchick02> i take it right to the dumpster and drop it in
<gamerchick02> i'm like "seriously?"
<mathomastech> waf: I'll look into how the dictionaries work. It might be a good alternative to what I am doing currently
<jrwren> rick_h_: buy DTE shares so you are paying yourself?
<jrwren> rick_h_: i'm curious what those other 7 neighbors are doing.
<waf> mathomastech: it's pretty easy. just `settings = { "key_name": "value", "other_key_name": "other_value" }`
<rick_h_> well it hurts that my 4 closest houses are either snowbirds, forclosed, and retired people that are only there every other week
<mathomastech> waf: So if I import the settings, and it changes later, wouln't it run into the same issue since other files don't automatically re-import?
<waf> well, i'm not trying to solve that. don't use mutable globals
<waf> this at least gets rid of the import *, so you're no longer vomiting everything into the namespace.
<waf> continuing the metaphor, now we have a nice little contained sack of vomit.
<waf> maybe i should rethink this comparison.
<rick_h_> yay waf providing a barf bag for us
<rick_h_> lol
<mathomastech> Ok. I see what your saying. Yea, I probably will refactor that in a bit.
<jrwren> if it is just settings, then there is really no excuse.
<waf> except the excuse to being new-ish to a language, which is a valid excuse.
<jrwren> if it is really that painful, maybe they shouldn't be separate modules?
<jrwren> oh, new-ish? I've been newish for 2-18yrs.
<jrwren> then again, python was VERY different in 1996
<cmaloney> I hated Python 1.5.2
<rick_h_> there are oldish folks that still do that import * stuff.
<jrwren> about the only thing that was the same was whitespace and def.
<jrwren> cmaloney: i hated 1.4, 1.5 and 1.6 and the breaking changes between each of 'em
<cmaloney> jrwren: yep
<rick_h_> nothing to need to excuse, just good to know why it's frowned upon by most
<jrwren> cmaloney: those breaking changes are why I quit python and learned perl :)
<rick_h_> django used to be bad about that, never knew where some stuff was coming from
<cmaloney> The only from blah impport * that I did recently was for a file with a bunch of exceptions in there.
<cmaloney> I really need to go back and codify them.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Good ol' Perl.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-19
<rick_h_> heh, cool thing of the day http://moongift.jp/2014/02/bookie-%E3%82%B7%E3%83%B3%E3%83%97%E3%83%AB%E3%81%A7%E5%AE%9F%E7%94%A8%E7%9A%84%E3%81%AA%E3%82%BD%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AB%E3%83%96%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%83%9E%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AF/
<rick_h_> ugh on the url
<rick_h_> but bookie hits japan
<cmaloney> Good morning btw
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Congratulations!
<cmaloney> https://bmark.us/redirect/e0abe6379bd95d <- better link. ;)
<rick_h_> yes, much better
<brousch> Congrats on what?
<rick_h_> I got a pie
<cmaloney> brousch: Follow that link
<rick_h_> it was yummy
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> Should I translate it?
<cmaloney> Unless you can read Japanese I would.
<jrwren> rick_h_: run ads, you can retire :p
<rick_h_> jrwren: hah
<brousch> Ouch. All of the Blackwell rooms are Kings, no doubles
<rick_h_> yea :/
<brousch> no sharing unless you want to snuggle up
 * greg-g finally starts OMC episode 90
 * greg-g feels famous
<greg-g> Craig Maloney: Ego Booster.
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> "Ubuntu (phone) puts the control back into the hands of our partners"
<rick_h_> brousch: !!!!! http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/02/google-fiber-chooses-nine-metro-areas-for-possible-expansion/
<rick_h_> brousch: that's it. I'm drugging my wife and not letting her wake up until we're out in portland :)
<rick_h_> lmao http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/02/google-fiber-chooses-nine-metro-areas-for-possible-expansion/?comments=1&post=26270971
<brousch> What is bad about Portland?
<greg-g> rain
<rick_h_> I <3 rain
<greg-g> Carrie has nixed Portland/Seattle because of it. She spent a few months there and pretty much had SAD the whole time.
<jrwren> greg-g: slip her vitamind supplements :p
<brousch> I also like rain
<cmaloney> greg-g: hah. :)
<cmaloney> Hope you enjoy the heck out of that episode.
<rick_h_> yay found my sewer drain in front of the house. Maybe now I can drain lake Harding
<brousch> go for a quick swim first
<rick_h_> almost did, some lady came speeding through the sub and was thowing up water 10' in the air until she saw me and crushed her brakes
<rick_h_> of course that sent a wave my way and now I've got new socks yay me
<brousch> throw an iceball at her
<rick_h_> all I had was a shovel, thought about it :)
<jrwren> smoser: did that cloudinit stuff make it into 12.04.4 ?
<smoser> i dont think i uploaded that yet.
<smoser> i'm sorry.
<jrwren> no worries.
<smoser> fwiw, 12.04.4 is really a no-thing
<smoser> i really wish we'd never made "point releases"
<smoser> 12.04.X is 2 things:
<smoser>  a.) a media cut of what is in the archive + updates at an arbitrary point in time
<smoser>  b.) a bad decision to use a different kernel and expose the end user to pain if they chose to use that kernel.
<smoser> er... if they chose to install from that media
<smoser> (ie, 12.04.X has a "hardware enablement kernel" in it)
<smoser> which will be installed by default.
<jrwren> even just having the security updates alreayd there is kind of nice for a cloudimg
<jrwren> less to apt-get upgrade and my instance will be ready sooner.
<greg-g> cmaloney: I listened to the whole episode straight through. Well done.
<greg-g> "bong breaker" heh
<mrgoodcat> so is there a chc meeting at bean and leaf tonight? i know it seems like an obvious question but since i've never attended i just want to make sure i'm right. its too long a drive for me to be wrong
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yep
<widox> mrgoodcat: yep, starts @ 8pm
<mrgoodcat> ok. someone may want to update the topic in #coffeehousecoders
<mrgoodcat> it says 9:00
<mrgoodcat> but it seems like nobody talks in that channel anyways
<widox> oh, that's the AA CHC time I think
<widox> and yeah, its pretty dead most of the time
<mrgoodcat> got it
<widox> mrgoodcat: http://royaloak.coffeehousecoders.com/
<mrgoodcat> yea i got that. the reason i asked was because of the discrepancy between that and the topic in channel
<rick_h_> heh, yea CHC started out as an Ann Arbor thing but we copied it and made it actually something that occurs
<rick_h_> but yea, every wed night. There'll be a handfull of us out there.
<cmaloney> greg-g: awesome. Glad you enjoyed it!
<mrgoodcat> i think i'll be there tonight
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: cool
<cmaloney> smoser: Did you send me your slides for your MUG presentation yet?
<smoser> i did not. i can do that *right now*
<cmaloney> Danke. :)
<cmaloney> I can get that up on the site tonight then. :)
<smoser> https://github.com/smoser/talk-lxc
<smoser> i'll email you the pdf
<smoser> but thats the source that generated it
<cmaloney> Awesome. I'll post that to the site tonight
<smoser> ok. i think you have email
<mrgoodcat> are you doing a talk at the upcoming meeting or the one i just missed?
<cmaloney> smoser: Thanks so much!
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Was at the last MUG meeting last Tuesday.
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/
<smoser> cmaloney, i would liek to do a "secondary" talk (not the primary one) on shell scripting. its somethign i've wanted to talk about for some long time. "shell programming tips"
<mrgoodcat> ah well. is there a way i can get a more human readable version than the tex? i'm not on my own computer right now otherwise i'd just compile it
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I'll have it posted later tonight
<mrgoodcat> oh cool
<cmaloney> smoser: We'd love to have it.
<cmaloney> smoser: If you'd send a note to board@mug.org we can capture it and work out the particulars.
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-20
<rick_h_> hey
<rick_h_> there we go
<cmaloney> hello
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/.vimrc
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Beware of UPS bearing gifts.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: UPS is delivering you guys Sat?
<rick_h_> I know you weren't sure about driving, but seems a bit nuts :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: har har
<cmaloney> I'm hoping it holds off or gets it out of its system
<rick_h_> hah
<mrgoodcat> morning fellows
<rick_h_> party
<mrgoodcat> so i know rick, and I assume cmaloney was the one sitting next to you?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: rgr
<rick_h_> and waf was the guy on the end, and widox was next to you
<rick_h_> (just to wrap up the intros)
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> that was my next question anyways
<mrgoodcat> i haven't seen waf on channel at all yet. is he not on much or have i just not caught him?
<rick_h_> well he works in an office and is around but is in/out
<rick_h_> I don't think he's much of a morning person either :)
<mrgoodcat> haha ok
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Good to meet you last night
<jrwren> gah. i gotta admit. I'm very bummed about Jim Weirich
<cmaloney> Always sad to see a hacker pass away
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: it was nice to meet you all as wel
<mrgoodcat> l
<cmaloney> Even if they're not part of your tribe
<mrgoodcat> tribe?
<cmaloney> Jim W. was a Ruby hacker
<mrgoodcat> right i know
<cmaloney> I'm not part of the Ruby community
<mrgoodcat> he wrote rake right?
<mrgoodcat> oh i get it
<cmaloney> Damn. He was tweeting 17h ago
<jrwren> yes, he wrote rake.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: BTW: You do realize this weekend is Ragnarok, right?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: huh? nope
<rick_h_> Sat: CHANCE OF PRECIP:
<rick_h_> 10%
<rick_h_> Sun: CHANCE OF PRECIP:
<rick_h_> 10%
<brousch> I thought Feb 22 was Ragnarok
<rick_h_> meh?
<cmaloney> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/02/19/ragnarok-viking-apocalyps_n_4814971.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
<brousch> Oh, that's this weekend
<rick_h_> oh, sweet! my birthday is the end of all things?
<cmaloney> yeah, my sis-in-law's was on the Mayan Apocalypse
<rick_h_> cool, well the wine will be all the sweeter then
<cmaloney> just remember: if the Ragna's rockin' don't come knockin'
<brousch> rick_h_: Now it makes sense
<cmaloney> OK, Python is awesome.
<cmaloney> from collections import Counter
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :)
<rick_h_> collections is an awesome module
<jrwren> somone kill me. I just confused port 3389 and 5432
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's pretty easy to do if you're moving between MySQL and PostreSQL
<brousch> jrwren: I tried to kill you, but I confused PID 3389 and 5432 and accidentally killed some random person!
<jrwren> thanks brousch
<mrgoodcat> ps aux | awk '{print $2}' | shuf -n 1
<mrgoodcat> pkill that if you're brave
<mrgoodcat> speaking of killing random people
<mrgoodcat> but really don't
<brousch> mrgoodcat: I just ran it on my company's server as root. I hope it's not malware!
<mrgoodcat> i wouldn't worry about it
<mrgoodcat> ps ux | tail --lines=+2 | awk '{print $2}' | shuf -n 1
<mrgoodcat> better version. only current user processes so you have permission to kill them and skips the header
<cmaloney> sudo !!
<cmaloney> ;)
<mrgoodcat> sudo kill -9 `ps aux | tail --lines=+2 | awk '{print $2}' | shuf -n 1`
<mrgoodcat> ^^ thus is the problem with piping curl output to sh
<mrgoodcat> rvm-- for such shenanigans
<jrwren> it gets all the kernel threads. not sure what killing [khelper] is going to do.
<jrwren> nothing I'd guess.
<jrwren> and could potentially match on PID
<mrgoodcat> maybe i'm wrong but wouldn't it kill a random process?
<mrgoodcat> i'm not going to run it to find out
<cmaloney> That's what LXC is good for. :)
<mrgoodcat> or vm
<waf> mrgoodcat: hi. i am in fact here sometimes :)
<waf> usually check in once or twice a day
<cmaloney>  Yay, got my new mousepads
<cmaloney> one for work and one for home
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002E53F8S and http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002E53F6U
<brousch> Mice are passe. Everything is touch screen and leap motion now
<cmaloney> brousch: My mouse pad doesn't judge me like your kinect does.
<jrwren> https://github.com/jimweirich/wyriki/commit/d28fac7f18aeacb00d8ad3460a0a5a901617c2d4
<rick_h_> heh http://blog.3v1n0.net/informatica/linux/ubuntu-introducing-locally-integrated-menus-to-unity-7/
 * rick_h_ hears the sounds of thousands of computers upgrading to trusty
 * brousch starts flopping on the ground from a seizure
<brousch> That bug always enrages me when I use Unity
<cmaloney> OK, could they come up with a more ugly way to implement that?
<greg-g> python, you make no sense to me: http://paste.debian.net/83212/
<brousch> greg-g: Can you import it in the Python REPL?
<rick_h_> yea, works here
<rick_h_> greg-g: which pip
<rick_h_> you didn't sudo that
<rick_h_> so it's not global
<rick_h_> and the glacier command is global
<brousch> ah, good catch
<rick_h_> so I'm going to guess you need to 'sudo pip install iso8601'
<rick_h_> in order to have this work
<brousch> Can you install glacier to a virtualenv?
<greg-g> rick_h_: I did a sudo pip install before, same message
<greg-g> glacier needs to be callable by git-annex, which is run in various repos
<rick_h_> greg-g: ic, yea it's a matter of the `which pip` being in the right path for the `which python` that glacier is running in
<greg-g> for shits and giggles, re sudo pip install'd and same thing
<greg-g> is there a $PYTHONPATH or some such?
<rick_h_> greg-g: go into python
<rick_h_> import sys; print(sys.path)
<brousch> Yes, but you need to determine what glacier's pythonpath is
<brousch> glacier could be running its own virtualenv, for instance
<brousch> Or have its own Python included with it
<rick_h_> python -c 'import sys; print(sys.path)'
<greg-g> greg@x200s:~/Photos$ which pip
<greg-g> /usr/bin/pip
<greg-g> greg@x200s:~/Photos$ which python
<greg-g> /usr/bin/python
<greg-g> greg@x200s:~/Photos$ echo $PYTHONPATH
<greg-g> /usr/local/lib/
<greg-g> no venvs on my system :)
<rick_h_> l
<rick_h_> k
<rick_h_> sudo updatedb
<rick_h_> locate iso8601 G lib
<rick_h_> locate iso8601 | grep lib
<rick_h_> for the non zsh users
<greg-g> ['', '/usr/local/lib', '/usr/lib/python2.7', '/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-x86_64-linux-gnu', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload', '/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gtk-2.0', '/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7']
<greg-g> greg@x200s:~/Photos$ locate iso8601 | grep lib
<greg-g> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/iso8601
<greg-g> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/iso8601-0.1.8.egg-info
<greg-g> so, sys.path doesn't have /u/l/l/python2.7/dist-packages in it
<greg-g> oh, wait, no it does
<rick_h_> yea, so this should work
<greg-g> you know, php is way easier to intall/use :P
<rick_h_> python -c "import iso8601"
<greg-g> brousch: how do I determine your idea?
<greg-g> rick_h_: same
<rick_h_> which means that glacier is not on your normal python path
<rick_h_> greg-g: you get the error you can't import it?
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> ImportError: No module named iso8601
<rick_h_> :/
<brousch> greg-g: What program is that? I can't find it in the repos
<greg-g> https://github.com/basak/glacier-cli
<greg-g> funny thing is I set this up successfully on my (crippled) Synology NAS
<jrwren> greg-g: head -1 /usr/local/bin/glacier and paste here?
<greg-g> #!/usr/bin/env python
<jrwren> which python and paste here?
<greg-g> 16:30 <    greg-g> greg@x200s:~/Photos$ which python
<greg-g> 16:30 <    greg-g> /usr/bin/python
<rick_h_> python --version
<rick_h_> ?
<jrwren> /usr/bin/python -m iso9601 and paste here?
<greg-g> greg@x200s:~/Photos$ python --version
<greg-g> Python 2.7.6
<greg-g> greg@x200s:~/Photos$ /usr/bin/python -m iso8601
<greg-g> /usr/bin/python: No module named iso8601
<greg-g> (typo corrected)
<brousch> It has kind of a strange install
<greg-g> brousch: the symlink to boto? yeah :/
<jrwren> greg-g: /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/iso8601 is a directory? what is in it? an __init__.py ?
<rick_h_> greg-g: did the pip install complete successfully? check ~/.pip something or other that looks like pip.log
<greg-g> rick_h_: says it did, will check log
<brousch> This is potential funk https://github.com/basak/glacier-cli/issues/30
<greg-g> greg@x200s:~/Photos$ ls /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/iso8601
<greg-g> ls: cannot open directory /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/iso8601: Permission denied
<greg-g> bading!
<jrwren> tada!
<greg-g> http://paste.debian.net/83221/
<greg-g> perm issues, +x should be it, right?
 * greg-g always forgets these details
<jrwren> yes, +x for folders
<jrwren> 0755
<rick_h_> :/ that you've got many sans X
<jrwren> i find the octal eaiser
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, pip issue I guess? when running with sudo?
<greg-g> no idea
<jrwren> not sure what all those sticky bits are for eitehr.
<jrwren> i'd not think pip would do anything to perms.
<jrwren> are you running with a strange umask?
<rick_h_> I use pip with sudo all the time ok for system wide things. something is mucking with it
<greg-g> greg@x200s:/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages$ umask
<greg-g> 0027
<jrwren> that is a FUCKED umask
<jrwren> wtf
<jrwren> don't do that greg-g
<greg-g> well then
<jrwren> that explains it.
<greg-g> suggestion?
<greg-g> of umask?
<jrwren> but why is that getting set?  is it your .bashrc or is it something system wide?
<greg-g> yeah, in my bashrc, no idea why, no comment explaining (I usually link to blog post/similar for those kinds of things)
<jrwren> chmod 0755 atom goobook gdata hcs_utils iso8601 sqlalchemy Taskhelm
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, did that
<jrwren> the default umask is set in /etc/login.defs
<jrwren> i'd remove any .bashrc umask unless you can justify it
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> # UMASK is the default umask value for pam_umask and is used by
<greg-g> # useradd and newusers to set the mode of the new home directories.
<greg-g> # 022 is the "historical" value in Debian for UMASK
<greg-g> # 027, or even 077, could be considered better for privacy
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> that's probably why
<jrwren> greg-g: it doesn't really matter IMO
<greg-g> ok
<jrwren> the idea would be to add a user to that group so that they could pip install, but not have sudo/root access
<jrwren> greg-g: you up and rolling now?
<greg-g> I think so...
<greg-g> greg@x200s:~$ glacier
<greg-g> usage: glacier [-h] [--region REGION] {vault,archive,job} ...
<greg-g> glacier: error: too few arguments
<jrwren> yay!
<greg-g> thanks jrwren and rick_h_ and brousch :) :)
<jrwren> any reason you couldn't have apt-get install python-iso8601 ?
<greg-g> no
<jrwren> sucker!
<jrwren> always prefer apt :p
<greg-g> I thought all the cool kids avoided deb packages now adays :)
<greg-g> yeah, learned my lesson
<jrwren> not me.
<jrwren> if a python package isn't packaged for deb, I package it.
<jrwren> python-timelib <3
<brousch> I would use system package for system command, in general
 * greg-g hugs jrwren 
<jrwren> greg-g: well, I don't submit it anywhere, i just use it myself
<jrwren> MOTU is WAY too much friction
<greg-g> jrwren: oh, then :(
<greg-g> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-21
<greg-g> cmaloney: in your blog you're referring to https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/web-timer/ggnjbdfgigejghknieofeahaknkjafim ?
 * greg-g assumes so
 * greg-g can't find a surrogate for Fx
<cmaloney> greg-g: yeah, i think that's the one
<_stink_> jayis: NO
<jayis> AH
<mrgoodcat> morning all
<brousch> morning one
<rick_h__> party
<rick_h__> tgif
<mrgoodcat> friday++
<brousch> Civic Hackathon for Code Across America tonight
<brousch> and tomorrow
<jrwren> sounds too much like hands across america and I don't think webster is going to be there.
<brousch> This wind is nuts today
<brousch> 32F feels like 17F 45mph winds
<JonEdney> Yeah, that wind is brutal, but I will take it after the last 2 months.
<JonEdney> Oh, and good morning.
<brousch> I'd prefer 20F and calm
<rick_h__> heh, polar vortex coming, how about -20?
<rick_h__> that's close right?
<brousch> That's too cold
<brousch> 20F feels nice now. I was on the roof 2 days ago in a tshirt shoveling and breaking ice dams
<jrwren> RED ALERT!  Old World Python Class Sighted!
<rick_h__> ruh roh...run for the hills!
<jrwren> i lolled for a good 10 seconds.
<cmaloney> good morning
<mrgoodcat> I just love that they call it a polar vortex. Sounds like some star wars shit
<brousch> looks like it right now
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: To me it sounds like a Canadian Secret Weapon
<cmaloney> Reagan had his Star Wars Program, but Canada has unleashed the Polar Vortex
<rick_h__> jrwren: they should flip it. Want an old object? you need to do class MyUser(oldobject)
<rick_h__> :)
<jrwren> rick_h__: ha! that would be an interesting python 2.8 hack ;p
<cmaloney> rick_h__: I like the way you think. :)
<jrwren> poll: open() or file() in python and why.
<rick_h__> with open() as fh:
<rick_h__> because that's just what I've known/used.
<jrwren> i'm pretty sure the file class has enter/exit, but I like your because the best.
<rick_h__> yea, i mean if you go to file stuff in the docs it's all open
<rick_h__> http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/inputoutput.html
<rick_h__> I'm trying to find file() to compare api/args and such
<rick_h__> http://docs.python.org/2/library/functions.html?highlight=file#file
<rick_h__> When opening a file, itâs preferable to use open() instead of invoking this constructor directly. file is more suited to type testing (for example, writing isinstance(f, file)).
<rick_h__> I wouldn't expect a class constructor to be a context manager as well, but maybe it is.
<rick_h__> yea, don't see it in the api docs for File objects
<rick_h__> so context mgr ftw
<jrwren> rick_h__: YES! thankyou.
<rick_h__> thanks for bringing it up. Never really thought about it
<mrgoodcat> for someone with experience in multiple programming languages what would you suggest as a good resource to learn idiomatic python? I'm not so much worried about the syntax because that shouldn't be difficult, but more about the "python way" of solving any particular problem.
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Sit behind rick_h__ and watch him work
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> failing that, are there any books you might suggest?
<mrgoodcat> i have a few, but don't know which to start with
<rick_h__> there's a few 'python way' books. The best thing is to look at code from devs you respect, check out pyohio this summer, etc
<rick_h__> ask someone to review the code
<brousch> Follow PEP8
<rick_h__> yea, pep8 and pylint your stuff
<mrgoodcat> does pylint check for errors or style?
<rick_h__> well, sanity check vs style.
<rick_h__> usused variables, imports, proper use of exceptions, etc
<mrgoodcat> got it
<rick_h__> If I can open it without my editor yelling at me you're on the right track :)
<mrgoodcat> i was going to do clojure but i recently did haskell and i've been told by too many people that i have to try python
<rick_h__> clojure is worth looking at as well
<rick_h__> as someone that does python
<mrgoodcat> which would you suggest first? assuming i'll do both eventually (which i likely will)
<rick_h__> if you do ruby already I think clojue will be more enlightning
<rick_h__> python is ruby done right, so if you're looking at doing more of what you do but with cleaner tools then go python :)
<mrgoodcat> enlightening in what way? because of the functional aspect of it?
<rick_h__> yea, it's different. It'll open your mind some more
<mrgoodcat> i've done functional before
<rick_h__> there are tools you learn because you want a better tool and tools you learn that expand how you think
<mrgoodcat> I happen to really like haskell
<rick_h__> clojure, for me at least is more about expanding how I think.
<mrgoodcat> does clojure offer any real advantage over haskell?
<rick_h__> ask waf he tinkers with them more
<rick_h__> I think clojure is more real-world usable than haskell
<jrwren> and pyflakes.
<jrwren> I've found just having a pyflakes vim plugin helps me be pythonic a bunch.
<rick_h__> jrwren: yea, I used flake8 which is that + pep8
<jrwren> yes, that.
<jrwren> I think I used that too
<jrwren> I know I have both.
<rick_h__> there's a new one that's more maintained
<rick_h__> right
<jrwren> pep-0463 looks crazy
<brousch> This looks interesting http://stephensugden.com/crash_into_python/
<jrwren> 3.5 is getting 0463
<rick_h__> jrwren: yea, that is. One side of my brain goes "oooh cool that reads nice"
<jrwren> x=[]
<rick_h__> and the other side goes "wtf"
<jrwren> x[0] except IndexError: None
<rick_h__> expr or else default if Exception
<rick_h__> ?
<jrwren> it will be nice for some things which are too verbose right now
<rick_h__> yea
<rick_h__> some of those are hard to read at intent though
 * rick_h__ will have to look for some personal use cases of it
<jrwren> interesting that bare except is not allowed.
<jrwren> you have to except BaseException:
<jrwren> hehe
<jrwren> ON ERROR RESUME NEXT
<jrwren> i'm going to write a script which adds " except BaseException: pass" to every statement in my python file
<mrgoodcat> functional programming just seems fundamentally broken to me when there needs to be user interaction. maybe i just don't understand it well enough
<mrgoodcat> it seems to me that programs that depend on user interaction depend on mutable state
<mrgoodcat> it seems sometimes too theoretical. difficult to apply to real world problems
<mrgoodcat> great for things like project euler though
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: functional and immutability are orthoginal.
<jrwren> don't let the uneducated functionistas tell you otherwise.
<rick_h__> hey, not saying otherwise
<jrwren> functional might make it easier to embrace immutability - easier being subjective and up to you.
<rick_h__> functional can be a lot about design/layout/communication contracts
<jrwren> that said, I find nothing challenging about user interaction and functional constructs.
<mrgoodcat> by orthogonal you mean...?
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: exactly perpendicular
<jrwren> i mean one does not have to do with the other. they are not parallels
<rick_h__> you can implement your code in terms of functional design just fine without getting into immutibility
<jrwren> rick_h__: exactly
<rick_h__> we're working to make our large JS app more functional in structure and api design, but not dealing or worrying about immutible datatypes/etc.
<jrwren> server side JS app?
<jrwren> or browser side?
<rick_h__> browser, juju gui
<jrwren> browser side you are typically more concerned with not shadowing the DOM too much
<mrgoodcat> i'd just like to reiterate how much I hate php
<mrgoodcat> and specifically, wordpress plugins
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I'd also check out the "Writing Idiomatic Python" book
<cmaloney> It's a little spartan but should give you some good pointers on what is idiomatic with Python
<greg-g> curious what it looks like to be the one to press the "push all the code" at Wikimedia? https://asciinema.org/a/7798
<rick_h__> macbook pro 01?
<greg-g> not me
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-22
<_stink_> haha - every time i saw the word "scap-1" on that screen cap i read it as "snap-l"
<gamerchick02> lol _stink_
<rick_h__> LAND you stupid CI server. land this branch so I can close this computer and go to bed
<rick_h__> it should not take an hour to run a branch through CI
<gamerchick02> you know it sounds like you're trying to touch down a rocket. hah
<rick_h__> I want to sleep, such a long day
<rick_h__> 6am to 9pm is enough
<gamerchick02> agree
<nullspace> well I crappy night
<rick_h__> :(
<nullspace> while rebuilding my RAID5 of 3 drives while in a degraded state had the second drive fail
<rick_h__> double :(
<nullspace> plus side to the story nothing important was being stored on the server
<nullspace> now that's out of the way how is everyone else doing?
<rick_h__> I'm trying to get my 16hr day overwith once CI completes on one more branch
<rick_h__> but party party
<nullspace> CI?
<rick_h__> continious integration
<rick_h__> tests and automated landing (hopefully)
<nullspace> lots of changes on your commit?
<rick_h__> naw, it's actually someone else's branch
<rick_h__> but they're afk and on holiday next week
<rick_h__> and I need to get it landed for release on Monday
<rick_h__> so reviewed it, qa'd it, and trying to get it landed
<nullspace> well as long as they don't ask you to debug their code
<rick_h__> so time to give up and code to bed. Hopefully it'll be landed in the morning
<rick_h__> heh :) always debugging someone else's code
<rick_h__> don't get to write much of my own these days
<rick_h__> night all
<nullspace> night
<gamerchick02> night rick_h_
<rick_h__>  /msg cmaloney thanks for the books :)
<rick_h__> bah
<rick_h__> fail
<rick_h__> woot! defeated CI from last night
<rick_h> freenode issues?
<cmaloney> Well this has been fun
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h> party party
<jrwren> party
<cmaloney> party
<cmaloney> also: color me shameless
<cmaloney> Asked for some review books. :)
<cmaloney> Also my tolerance for self help books has dropped dramatically.
<cmaloney> Tried to get through The Happiness Advantage.
<cmaloney> Instead opted for the author's TedX talk instead.
<cmaloney> I think it had the same information with about 60% less useless anecdotes.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> who'd you ask for the books from?
<cmaloney> Pearson
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> Mostly because they're expensive as heck
<cmaloney> even the eBooks
<greg-g> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-23
<brousch> There's a chrome app irc client now
<brousch> Chromebook is a complete OS'
<rick_h> brousch: heh
<Azeban> Hello hello hello. and good evening
<brousch> yo
<Azeban> how are you brousch ?
<brousch> well
<Azeban> what are you in michigan?
<greg-g> yes.
<Azeban> where*
<cmaloney> hello
<rick_h> party over
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> yessir
<rick_h> sucky sucky
<brousch> $5
<brousch> Chromebooking again today
<rick_h> woot woot
<brousch> I need another Acer C720 Haswell 4G to really run Crouton though
<rick_h> grrr this darn laptop keeps sleeping, killing network, and then taking forever to reconnect
<brousch> Upgrade to chromebook
<rick_h> hah yea, I do love the pixel but I can't use it for everything I need so too much $$ for too little gain
<brousch> I wish I had a pixel
<brousch> Price is crazy
<rick_h> yea, and they announced EOL times for those things and it's only in 2015
<Azeban> Hello hello hello.
<Azeban> good afternoon
<waf> yo
<Azeban> how are you waf
<waf> pretty good, camping out in a coffee shop getting some work done. you?
<rick_h> waf: cross your fingers for me. Trying to get my ubuntu dual boot setup
<waf> good luck! hopefully it "just works" :)
<rick_h> lol
<Azeban> good luck :)
<Azeban> I'm camping at the home office.
<brousch> Dual booting with what?
<waf> hahaha, yes, rick_h. what might that other OS be?
<rick_h> hmmm, well it gave me the option to install along side osx, but no wifi drivers ootb :(
<rick_h> brousch: osx on an 11" air
<Azeban> where are you guys in michigan?
<rick_h> brousch: we're working on making safari a first class Juju gui browser and making juju quickstart work on osx so I needed some osx hardware
<rick_h> Azeban: all over. brousch is west side, some of us up and down the I-75 cooridoor north of detroit
<waf> ok. now all of us are from southeastern michigan.
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> mathomastech: isn't in MI :P
<rick_h> or greg-g
<waf> d'oh. neither is greg-g.
<Azeban> I'm in Saugatuck
<Azeban> on lake michigan
<rick_h> Azeban: nice, brousch is out GR way somewhere. Couple of guys are that way
<rick_h> how's the frozen lake doing out there?
<rick_h> woot! in ubuntu on the air with wifi working
 * rick_h restarts to make sure osx still works
<waf> awesome! how did it set it up? via grub?
<Azeban> still very much frozen :)
<rick_h> refitn
<rick_h> that and usb-creator'd the mac iso
<Azeban> im right on the shore
<Azeban> the lake is still completely frozen
<rick_h> nice Azeban
<rick_h> oh I'm sure it will be for a bit
<rick_h> this week there's highs like '14' around here
<waf> refitn? is that a "refind" typo?
<Azeban> as is the kalamazoo river
<rick_h> imagine the wind blowing over that lake is cold
<rick_h> waf: so there was refit boot loader manager
<rick_h> somone took it up and made it refitn
<rick_h> (n = next ?)
<Azeban> we also have around 3000 lf of the frontage of the kalamazoo river
<waf> and you're sure you don't mean refind?
 * waf googles
<Azeban> its still completely frozen
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> waf: oh... umm yea that
<rick_h> http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/
<waf> yeah, ok, cool. that's what i use
<waf> i really should toss that guy some money. amazing documentation
<rick_h> ooh, you can make the launcher smaller than 32 in trusty now
<rick_h> man it's so nice to be back in linux land
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ you can? that's 14.04, right?
<rick_h> gamerchick02: yea, let me take it down to 16
<gamerchick02> sweetness
<gamerchick02> 32 is a good size tho
<gamerchick02> the size it is after install is MEGA huge
<rick_h> always too big still imo
<gamerchick02> i'm like geez
<gamerchick02> depends on the size of your monitor!
<gamerchick02> like if i were to install ubuntu to my macbook(!) i'd want a smaller launcher.
<rick_h> sweet, time to copy over my Makefile and start the "make install install-python" process :)
<rick_h> man, sitting this thing side by side with my 230 it really is a lot smaller
<rick_h> but damn the x230 has such a nicer keyboard
<rick_h> real feedback, so much softer on the mac
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> which mac do you have?
<gamerchick02> air
<gamerchick02> derp
<gamerchick02> i should read more
<rick_h> this makes me said http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/02/netflix-is-paying-comcast-for-direct-connection-to-network-wsj-reports/
<greg-g> rick_h: wait, why'd you get the air if you're install Ubuntu on it?
<rick_h> I guess it's how network operations
<rick_h> greg-g: dual booting. Need osx to QA mac stuff works
<greg-g> gotcha
<greg-g> I was worried
<rick_h> greg-g: but want to try it out as an ubuntu platform as well. I'm losing faith in lenovo
<greg-g> ...
<Azeban> im very pleased with my macbook
<rick_h> since I have to have an OSX machine I got a refurb air to try out.
<Azeban> its a pleasure to use.
<rick_h> if I don't like it, well it's just for QA
<rick_h> if I do...then Nov is my 3yr laptop refresh with Canonical so...
<rick_h> greg-g: I'm a bit bummed with the x240 changes, the lack of a decent carbon. I will look at the xps13 DE but not a dell fan and makes me nervous
<Azeban> I have a 2.3ghz qud i7
<greg-g> xps is junk
<Azeban> and it has 16gb of 16000mhz memory
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, I know you had issues with it and there are a couple of co-workers that like it
<rick_h> but not sure they know better
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> if you like the air you'll like the xps ;)
<greg-g> xps: more plasticy version of the air
<rick_h> well, already bummed on the keyboard. Trackpad :( but the x240 got rid of the buttons
<Azeban> and 2gb gddr5 memory
<Azeban> and the geforce gt 750M
<rick_h> greg-g: the display seems nice, that's the biggest gripe with my 230
<gamerchick02> i love my Air.
<gamerchick02> and the display is really nice
<rick_h> I'm so mad they only made the HD screen on the 240 for touch
<Azeban> yes
<Azeban> the retina display is great
<greg-g> oh, didn't realize re hd and touch
<greg-g> bah
<Azeban> i dont know if the air and the pro have the same display
 * greg-g is a curmuddgeon
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, that and that HD finally came out 5mo after the 240...
<gamerchick02> question: has anyone modded an HP11 chromebook for a larger SSD, more RAM, and Ubuntu?
<rick_h> so yea, I'll be that annoying guy trying to try out everyone's laptops this year
<gamerchick02> lol rick_h_
<rick_h> gamerchick02: check with brousch when he's around. He's the chromebook guy in the group
<gamerchick02> danke
<gamerchick02> i don't even know if i can get the darn thing open
<gamerchick02> no screws
<rick_h> heh
<gamerchick02> because an ubuntu portable box would be nice
<gamerchick02> and it was cheap so yeah.
<waf> i think mrgoodcat also runs a chromebook
<rick_h> oh yea, true
<gamerchick02> sweet
<gamerchick02> thanks
<Azeban> what do you guys think of the AppleCare plan?
<gamerchick02> i don't have it on either of my devices
<gamerchick02> i have the 11" Air and an ipod touch
<gamerchick02> no issues so far and no applecare
<gamerchick02> i still need to take my air in for it's hard drive swap because of the recall
<cmaloney> afternoon
<gamerchick02> afternoon cmaloney
<gamerchick02> how's it going?
<cmaloney> Going OK. I think I have a cold.
<cmaloney> Took some allergy medicine and it seems to be ineffective
<gamerchick02> ugh
<gamerchick02> i'm actually feeling human again
<gamerchick02> i didn't WAKE UP til 9:45 this morning. (i'm a morning person so this is news)
<rick_h> hah, google for things and find questions from jrwren
<gamerchick02> hah
<cmaloney> Call for Talks for Penguicon is coming to a close soon.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-16
<_stink_> hello
<greg-g> yo
<greg-g> I'm sick, it sucks.
<_stink_> booo
<greg-g> What's worse is the whole family is sick.
<greg-g> BUT!
<greg-g> We bought an RV :)
<_stink_> yay!
<greg-g> a 1983 Lindy (c-class, 20ft)
<greg-g> so I've been dinking around in it all day :)
<greg-g> how's _stink_ ?
<jrwren> GR represent! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Dn-2ubGL8
<brousch> OK
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> greg-g: Sorry you're sick. Hope you feel better soon
 * cmaloney is listening to Neurotech - The Halcyon Symphony
<cmaloney> Ar we having fun yet?
<cmaloney> Apparently today is unintentionally talk like a pirate day.
<brousch> Interesting: Paczki On Demand is Arriving Tomorrow! http://goo.gl/VXg4w3
<cmaloney> Is it really fat tuesday already?
<cmaloney> Damn, Easter is early this year.
<DrDaemonEye> cmaloney: what?  already? Didn't we just have Valentines day?
<cmaloney> Easter waits for nobody
<ColonelPanic001> I've never had a pczkaciia whatever spelling they are
<ColonelPanic001> I kind of feel obligated to keep the streak going
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> They're quite good
<cmaloney> though I'm not one to seek themout
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-17
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> lo
<jrwren> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> just heard a student tell another student "you don't need to know any of this if you're going into java" in my databasing class
<mrgoodcat> my head desk'd so hard
<greg-g> cmaloney: on the upswing of sickness now
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: What was that they didn't need to know?
<cmaloney> greg-g: Awesome! :)
<mrgoodcat> anything from this class
<mrgoodcat> apparently java devs don't need databases
<cmaloney> Really? Such as?
<cmaloney> Well, it's a real pain in the ass to get Java to do anything with Databases. ;)
<mrgoodcat> yea but good luck making something useful without one lol
<cmaloney> JDBC is a 4 letter word
<brousch> The bastards removed the odbc-jdbc bridge from java 8
<brousch> I have literally 1 java program here. It uses that
<cmaloney> brousch: Someone took that seriously?
<cmaloney> odbc is another 4 letter word.
<brousch> It worked
<brousch> It worked without me touching it twice a day for like 6 years
<cmaloney> brousch: it might be that I'm not Windows enough to want to use those things
<brousch> Sometimes all you have is odbc on windows
<cmaloney> Any time I played with ODBC it felt like magic when it worked
<brousch> I use pypyodbc now
<cmaloney> magic in the sense that anything I did to accidentally change it would somehow cause the whole thing to spin apart and leave a crater where my machine once sood
<cmaloney> stoof
<cmaloney> stood
<cmaloney> apparently I can't typo
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> cscheib: i never got a PACZKI
<jrwren> brousch: why pypyodbc? no native driver for you?
<brousch> jrwren: foxpro db
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-18
<jrwren> brousch: oh good lord.
<rick_h_> evening
<brousch> 2/10 people in the office are at work on time
<_stink_> you get more snow?
<_stink_> or is this normal
<brousch> We got 3-5"
<brousch> Nothing too bad, but everyone is driving like we got 8"
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, I drove home last night in the snow that we got. Wasn't going to break any speed records.
<rick_h_> morning
<greg-g> it was a brisk 44 this morning :)
<brousch> <_<
<cmaloney> greg-g: On behalf of Michigan I'd like to extend our invitation for you to come back here so we can slap you silly with cold temperatures.
<cmaloney> 44 would be a heatwave
<cmaloney> I think Google is having problems with their mailing lists
<cmaloney> I'm getting a flood of GSoC mail messages
<MaskedDriver> anybody here happen to use LeadiD for anything?
<cmaloney> WHat is that?
<greg-g> wow, SomaFM will be 15 years old soon
<greg-g> cmaloney: ^
<cmaloney> Will they get their learner's permit?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-19
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yo
<_stink_> hello
<cmaloney> Good morning
<ColonelPanic001> morning, cmaloney
<cmaloney> Morning. :)
<ColonelPanic001> I learned today you're not the only juggler in the channel.
<ColonelPanic001> I had no idea there were that many jugglers, but jayis claims to also be able to juggle.
<mrgoodcat> think its afternoon by now
<mrgoodcat> heh
<cmaloney> Ah, cool.
<cmaloney> I haven't bbeen to the mcjc in quite some time. :(
<cmaloney> it's opposite CHC.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-20
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<DrDaemonEye> morning cmaloney, _stink_
<cmaloney> Hey DrDaemonEye
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<DrDaemonEye> Okay, I guess.  How about yours?
<cmaloney> Doing OK.
<DrDaemonEye> :)
<cmaloney> Just mentally catching up.
<DrDaemonEye> Yep.  And I am trying to mentally stabilize.
<DrDaemonEye> But, getting excited for spring and warm weather.  :)
<jrwren> penguicon : https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1u6k7z6E1r68sNiL1r4Udbq9Wk230MP3AXS-IrJTocNo/viewform
<cmaloney> ^^
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-21
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> hello
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-22
<tony-smlr> SMLR E145 going live Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvOQKH2ng-A  Audio: http//live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> Good morning
<gamerchick02> hey thinkpad-ers in the room... i've stumbled upon a sweet deal through newegg for a T410. does this one work well with 14.10?
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: definitely
<rick_h_> dk
<gamerchick02> woot!
<gamerchick02> thanks
<gamerchick02> $289 is a good price for it, yeah/
<gamerchick02> ?
<gamerchick02> it's refurb through newegg. any experience getting something like that?
<rick_h_> not through newegg, I got a mac refurb before
<rick_h_> 289, depends on what's in it I guess. at that price you can upgrade ram/etc pretty well
<gamerchick02> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834318291&cm_re=ThinkPad_T_Series_T410_Notebook_Intel_Core_i5_2.67GHz_4GB_Memory_320GB_HDD_14.1%22_Windows_7_Professional_-_18_Month_Warranty_and_Pre-Installed_30_Day_Trial_of_Microsoft_Office_365-_-34-318-291-_-Product
<gamerchick02> that's the link to it
<gamerchick02> ooooh it has a DVD-ROM!
<gamerchick02> *sarcasm*
<gamerchick02> i wonder if i can remove that and lighten it and perhaps replace the HDD w/an SSD
<gamerchick02> personally, i love my macbook air. and i'm kinda waiting for it to not be supported anymore to plop ubuntu on it
<rick_h_> yea last time I had one I swapped out the dvd drive with a battery cell for a bit more juice
<rick_h_> hmm, doesn't say what res screen on it and you'll want to up the ram I'm sure
<rick_h_> but cool
<rick_h_> they're good solid laptops
<gamerchick02> yeah. not sure i'll drop the cash on it but a project laptop... that'll mean: macbook, windows beast of a desktop, and an ubuntu box. i dunno i if i wanna manage that all but that's such a good price!!
<gamerchick02> my macbook has 4gb ram on it and it runs well
<gamerchick02> for a portable writing/internet/etc machine it's super good
<gamerchick02> i like it because it's so dang light
<gamerchick02> do you know how heavy the T410 is?
<rick_h_> it's a bit chunky for sure
<rick_h_> if you're looking for an air replacement it's not that. that's more the x1 carbon
<gamerchick02> lol i don't want to replace my air
<gamerchick02> i love it to bits. and i never thought i'd love something that Apple put out
<gamerchick02> but it's so damn easy to deal with.
<gamerchick02> and it's light and quick and just... i dunno.
<gamerchick02> also, multiple desktops ahoy. i don't know why windows doesn't do that (would make my work laptop so much more efficient.
<gamerchick02> )
<jrwren> yeah, a T410 is ancient right?
<jrwren> its from 2011ish?
<rick_h_> yea i5 but not sure which gen. the 450 is on the way this year
<gamerchick02> wow
<gamerchick02> my current laptop is 2012 gen...
<gamerchick02> "mid 2012"
<gamerchick02> i guess i don't want to get something that's kind of a step back. i'll wait till my macbook is unsupported and then plop ubuntu on it.
<jrwren> doesn't apple typically support hardware with its OS for 5yrs?
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> i'm not sure. probably
<cmaloney> Hmmm...
<cmaloney> Might get one so I can drop Ubuntu on it.
<cmaloney> And have spare parts for the T410 that my dad got "such a deal" on. :)
<cmaloney> I had one for Alcatel Lucent
<cmaloney> resolution was decent, but I think it was 13xx x 768.
<gamerchick02> that's not any better than my macbook
<gamerchick02> (small screen!!)
<cmaloney> Afternoon from the Clinton Macomb Library
<gamerchick02> howdy. how's the library?
<cmaloney> I really miss this library
<cmaloney> It's quiet, so I have headphones and music running. :)
 * cmaloney is listening to Tangram - Desert Of Lost Blessings
<gamerchick02> oh nice.
<gamerchick02> i should go back to the Auburn Hills Library to write and stuff
<cmaloney> Since we're no longet r in the area I'm also tethering with my phone
<cmaloney> Which is nice.
<gamerchick02> fewer distractions than my apartment (i have TV there)
<cmaloney> Oh I have all sorts of distractions here. :)
<cmaloney> Books, magazines, people
<gamerchick02> true
<gamerchick02> i have all that except people at my apartment
<cmaloney> Heh
<gamerchick02> i don't want to drive back to my apartment (i'm at my mom's house)
<cmaloney> Well, you have IRC. That's the same thing, right?
<gamerchick02> hah
<gamerchick02> true
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-22
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> that too
<cmaloney> Happy actual-birthday day, rick_h_ !
<jrwren> happy bday rick_h_ don't work too hard.
<cmaloney> Don't work at all. :)
<cmaloney> I think he took today off
<jrwren> that means he'll still work a 6-8hr day. ;p
<cmaloney> Yeah, I know
<cmaloney> Telling rick_h_ not to work is like telling the sun not to be hot
<rick_h_> :) thank you cmaloney jrwren
<greg-g> puking boy in bed last night, that was fun
<jrwren> EWE, boor boy
<cmaloney> greg-g: Ugh. Hope everything is OK
<greg-g> yeah, he seems fine, not really sick sick
<greg-g> but, changing the sheets at 5am wasn't fun :)
<cmaloney> Changing the sheets after 10pm is never fun
<greg-g> unless.... nevermind
<jrwren> adam sandler in big daddy showed me, throw some newspaper down
<_stink_> hah
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-23
<rick_h_> morning and such
<cmaloney> Good morning!
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<rick_h_> wheeee
<cmaloney> inbox zero looking less and less likely?
<rick_h_> hah, wtf is that?!
<rick_h_> only have to "loading more" once in my home account and twice on my work accoun?
<cmaloney> Nah, it means everything in the inbox is captured appropriately, clarified, and put onto a list so you can create next actions from it and work from that list rather than your inbox. :)
<cmaloney> Also: getting retweeted by Jeff Jarvis is a great way to blow up your Twitter.
<rick_h_> nice!
<rick_h_> what tweet did that?
<cmaloney> The canary gets blamed for the coal mine disasters
<cmaloney> in response to some newspaper person going off on him for destroying newspapers
<rick_h_> wtf, that was 10 years ago?! http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/02/bbc-planet-earth-ii-4k-uhd-drones/
<jrwren> 4k isn't enough. i want 8k ;]
<jrwren> kidding asside, i look forward to seeing this in 4k
<cmaloney> all the K
<jrwren> Kelvins!
<cmaloney> 640K should be enough for everyone
<rick_h_> ugh, anyone have a 4k tv?
<jrwren> well that is pretty hot.  at 640Kelvins we'd all be dead.
<cmaloney> I had a 4 kilo TV
<jrwren> I have a 4k tv.
<rick_h_> do you? cool I hadn't realized anyone was getting that deep into stuff
<cmaloney> I think we had a 45 kilo TV at one point
 * rick_h_ hasn't moved past 32" led and barely uses 1080p
<jrwren> I'm NOT a toy boy.
<jrwren> my previous TV was 26"
<cmaloney> *bullshit*
<jrwren> o-O
<cmaloney> ;)
 * rick_h_ is a toy boy...but not really into tv toys I guess
<cmaloney> I'm still running DVDs
<jrwren> ok, i'm a cheap son of a bitch when it comes to toys, and when finally getting to bigger than 26" TV, it wasn't cost prohibitive
<rick_h_> sdcard in the motox pure means "offline all the movies!" yay
<jrwren> kodi+samba share means offline all the movies... terabytes of them
<rick_h_> how do you offline them onto planes?
<jrwren> i don't.
<jrwren> what is a plane? :p
<jrwren> i sleep on those, the 2 times a year I go on them (yes, only 2 times last year)
<rick_h_> hah 'offline' == 'works on internetless plane'
<jrwren> 'offline' == works when my ISP is down
<jrwren> we have fun different definitions of offline.  I like them.
<cmaloney> offline is whenever the power goes out and the battery on the phone loses charge.
<cmaloney> or if I'm in a plane
<cmaloney> which happens about once a decade
<cmaloney> I've been on a plane I think four times in my life
 * cmaloney counts on his fingers
<cmaloney> (two times for Classic Gaming Expo in 1999 / 2000, once for ALU, and once for Pycon 2014)
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> wed i'll hit gold status for 2016  wheee
<cmaloney> There's only been 2 months
<cmaloney> not even
<cmaloney> shit
<rick_h_> yea, crazy start to the year
<cmaloney> (OK, that doesn't include return trips)
<cmaloney> so 8 times
<jrwren> rick_h_: that was quick.
<jrwren> someday, i'll be bronze.
<jrwren> i couldn't figure out all teh status, then I realized it is just lick starcraft2 ladder.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, well 15k of the 50k (600 miles short today) were carry over
<_stink_> i just play nethack on flights
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> here you go cmaloney, for next nanowrimo or whatever it is http://techcrunch.com/2016/02/23/freewrite-the-distraction-free-smart-typewriter-is-now-on-sale/
<rick_h_> ok, I want to play with one
<rick_h_> but not enough to buy one, so someone else get one so I can try it out :P
<cmaloney> Yeah, I aaaaalmost got one of those.
<cmaloney> They're made in Detroit
<rick_h_> nice
<cmaloney> Not $500 worth of writing though
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> I have a Model 100 that will suit the bill (NEC 8201A, but still)
<rick_h_> it's cool, love the eink screen idea
<rick_h_> but $500 means you need to make some $$ from writing on it I think
<cmaloney> I'd have to make a lot of money from writing
<rick_h_> I don't know about that. I mean, a good tool you need to make back in a few months?
<rick_h_> I mean a couple of grand a month in writing and it'd be totally worth it if it helped you write?
<cmaloney> Oh totally. If I made my living writing and the difference between me writing and fucking around on the internet meant > $500 I'd buy it in a second.
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> but it saves .txt files
<cmaloney> "The Freewrite will last between 3-4 weeks with normal usage, which we define as 30 minute of writing per day, with Wi-Fi turned off."
<cmaloney> This would be awesome for rick_h_'s version of "Travel's with Charlie"
<rick_h_> Travels with Charlie?
 * rick_h_ does not get reference
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travels_with_Charley
<cmaloney> http://www.lightbolt.com/tandy-model-100-102-200-nec-8201a-8300-stuff/
<cmaloney> Working NEC 8201a with Full Bank of RAM (32k RAM) â $129.99
<cmaloney> That's awesome.
<cmaloney> not sure about the $40 for his transfer software though
 * cmaloney is half-tempted to bring one to the next CHC
<jrwren> i remember those tandy's.
<cmaloney> Yeah, Rat Shack had a ton of them
<jrwren> well yeah, tandy.
<cmaloney> They'll always be Rat Shack to me
<cmaloney> Tandy Radio Shack model ...
<cmaloney> Still think the  MOdel 3 was a damn sexy machine
<jrwren> makes me wonder...
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> what if dell or acer had bought ratshack and used it to peddle their garbage.
<cmaloney> Gateway would have done it
<cmaloney> totally
<cmaloney> had they not had their ill-performing showrooms they would have totally bought Radio Shack
<cmaloney> and turned them into steaming piles of garbage.
<jrwren> well, gateway is acer now.
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> woo woo
<jrwren> i always forget taht there actually aren't that many manufacturers or even sellers these days.
<jrwren> i'm used to the late 90s where everyone was selling their own desktops and laptops
<cmaloney> Yeah, now it's all a handful of manufacturers
<cmaloney> I'm surprised Costco doesn't have Kirkland laptops
<cmaloney> (please don't tell me they have Kirkland laptops)
<jrwren> i'm kinda surprised too
<jrwren> might as well buy a clevo and stick their name on it.
<jrwren> they are probably too smart for that cuz they know its a support nightmare.
<jrwren> not much to support wine, peanut butter, and olive oil ;]
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-24
<cmaloney> Evening
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Good morning. :)
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> How goes?
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CraigMaloney/posts/e4kcUduDgWD
<rick_h_> heh, yea have to get that myself
<rick_h_> wheeee
<_stink_> yeah what a waste of time.
<rick_h_> the one I hate is the "goals for the next year"
<cmaloney> I wish they could get self-reviews to be more of a positive thing rather than a soul-reckoning.
<rick_h_> because I've never had a year 'go according to plan'
<_stink_> i am hearing that this is the last year for them at my work
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis#Weighing_of_the_heart <- This is what I think of whenever I do a review
<jcastro> rick_h_: snow status up there?
<jcastro> it's going pretty good here, not catastrophic, but pretty heavy
<jrwren> and coming fast here.
<_stink_> been going pretty good for about an hour in Royal oak
<_stink_> not quite an inch yet
<cmaloney> Yeah, we're not up to an inch of snow but it's coming down
<cmaloney> Thinking the snow blower will get another go or two tonight
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, heavy and slipper out
<rick_h_> jcastro: have the wife taking the truck while I take her car to the airport today
<rick_h_> :(
<jrwren> you fly out today? i wonder if flights will be cancelled
<rick_h_> yea, 5:55pm so will make sure I'm ready for fun at the airport today
<rick_h_> and will head down early as I imagine that hour long drive will be more than that today
<cmaloney> yeah, I'd leave as early as you can stomach
<brousch> I just had my review 30 mins ago
<_stink_> hopefully you are not packing your belongings
<brousch> I'm still employed!
<_stink_> success!
<cmaloney> employment is A+
<rick_h_> words to live by 'not fired yet!'
<cmaloney> jrwren: https://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/702572829460398081
<jrwren> I KNOW!   gah!!!
<jrwren>  i'd be working for MSFT if I had joined them when Nat called me up 5 yrs ago
<cmaloney> dodged that bullet
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> true!
<jrwren> also dodged cuz they wanted me for evangelist role and not product dev.
<jrwren> very happy to do product dev and not marketing for the last 5yrs
<cmaloney> Evangelism is tiresome
<cmaloney> You have to be an extrovert's extrovert to keep up that kind of momentum
<cmaloney> Total respect for those who can manage it
<jrwren> oh, i respect them. I have many friends who do it, but it is not for me.
<cmaloney> btw: I'm not heading to CHC tonight
<rick_h_> booooo
<cmaloney> The roads are nasty, and JoDee's class was canceled
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-25
<Zimdale> Morning
<Zimdale> So you guys have been in the commuting tech industry for long than I in michigan.....whenever it snows did everyone always flip a shit and start sending people home early and freakin' out about commuting into work?
<jcastro> iirc usually there's no flipping out
<jcastro> usually it's like "everyone knows tomorrow will be a snow day"
<jrwren> right, and this wasn't just snow. this was a lot of snow in a short period of time.
<jcastro> rick_h_: are you here or on the road?
<jrwren> remember Helix Code?
<jrwren> The founders now work for microsoft.
<jrwren> remember GNOME?  1/2 of the founders now work for microsoft.
<cmaloney> Zimdale: Depends on the job
<cmaloney> I know a lot of folks are at work
<cmaloney> I prefer to work from home whenever I can
<cmaloney> so I'm working from home
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> snow ain't no joke today
<jcastro> had to do everything three times
<jcastro> maybe I should have gotten the more high end snowblower
<jrwren> try a shovel.
<jrwren> its quality cardio and strength training
<brousch> Yeah, good shovel day
<rick_h_> jcastro: in orlando
<jcastro> jrwren: I had to also shovel, it's just a hot mess all around, heh
<jcastro> rick_h_: man, this 5x is awesome, I just got one for myself, gets here in a few days
<jcastro> going to try this projectfi google MVNO as well
<cmaloney> so the 5X is jcastro approved?
<jcastro> It gets a +1 from me
<cmaloney> (looking at phones and not sure I want to spend $$ on the 6p)
<jcastro> The normal 5 also got better with M
<jcastro> with L it was a piece of shit
<jcastro> the 6p is like the size of an xbox
<jcastro> I can dig why people like that, but it's not for me
<jcastro> the 6p is also huawei, where as the LG 5x is a known entity to me
<cmaloney> Yeah, that was was a big factor for me
<jcastro> I've had LG in the past and they're decent, didn't feel like taking the plunge on a high end phone from a mfg. I've not used before
<cmaloney> Well, pretty much anything is a step up from my phone
<cmaloney> still rockin' the Samsung S2 Epic 4G Touch
<jcastro> you can have my 5 if my friend's GF doesn't take it
<cmaloney> Cool. Thank you!
<jrwren> its only 12:20 and I really want that 4th cup of coffee... what to do.. what to do... ;]
<cmaloney> I believe you prep for your fifth cup of coffee and be done with it
<jrwren> i've held for an hour to let some of the caffiene in my blood get processed :p
<brousch> Switch to decaf
<cmaloney> http://duckboy.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/540x360/521038d3e98391b49ed35b0dcfe49472/d/e/death_before_decaf.jpg
<cmaloney> One of my co-workers got me a postcard with that on it.
<cmaloney> It's at work. ;)
<jrwren> cmaloney: that is awesome.
<jrwren> cmaloney: i was kinda hoping i'd click and see a variation of: http://www.tattoosymbol.com/just-for-site/death_before_dishonor_flash.html
<cmaloney> There's several of those
<cmaloney> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0a/92/5d/0a925d7ece12ea36785181ddd2a591b7.jpg
<cmaloney> https://img0.etsystatic.com/034/0/6242771/il_214x170.657507218_rw8o.jpg
<cmaloney> https://www.google.com/search?q=death+before+decaf (image search)
<jrwren> ha!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-26
<cmaloney> God, Latin-1 will be the death of me
<cmaloney> (and for once it isn't MySQL doing the screwing)
<cmaloney> MS-SQL on the other hand...
<jrwren> sounds like you worked at sourceforge.
<cmaloney> Well, currently trying to get data from a vendor-controlled database table
<cmaloney> which apparently is akin to madness
<cmaloney> since every turn someone who has worked with this in their previous job says "why aren't you using the reporting tools for [product]"
<cmaloney> "Because I'm fucking insane or a fucking idiot; take your pick"
<cmaloney> https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/40397.html
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-27
<Dan9er111> hi first time here
<Dan9er111> arch linux user
<cmaloney> WElcome!
<Dan9er111> i must admit though ive just moved to arch and the crashes are a problem
<Dan9er111> my comp is def powerful but i think the nvidea drivers are crashing me
<cmaloney> arch tends to be more leading (bleeding) edge than most distros
<jrwren> this is why ubuntu ;]
<Dan9er111> yea i really want to make a linux distro my os for a server im starting what distro would you recommend
<cmaloney> Well, we're sort of biased here. :)
<cmaloney> But I've found Ubuntu server to be pretty nice overall
<cmaloney> the package manager is quite nice
<cmaloney> that said the packages tend to lag over time
<cmaloney> so after a certain point you only get securty updates
<cmaloney> and not the latest-and-greatest
<Dan9er111> oh i see is this more of a ubuntu promary channel
<Dan9er111> i should have figured
<Dan9er111> i just wish their was a linux irc for michigan
<rick_h_> this is close :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, this is pretty close
<cmaloney> WE also have a channel for the Michigan UNIX Uer Group but most folks in that channel are here
<cmaloney> (http://mug.org if you're interested)
<cmaloney> But I like to think we're more pragmatic than dogmatic about OSes
<cmaloney> My boss uses (and loves) Arch Linux.
<cmaloney> I prefer Ubuntu because I like more stability
<cmaloney> If you want to rock Macintosh we'll still love you
<jrwren> yeah, we don't trash talk other linux. our good friend greg-g uses debian in production despite all the good evidence that ubuntu-server would be better ;]
<rick_h_> jcastro: glad you like the 5x. I'm liking the motox pure
<rick_h_> jcastro: I missed my moto little touches and it's a nice inbetween the 5x size and the N6 size
<rick_h_> hah
 * rick_h_ ran arch until he got hired by canonical
<rick_h_> been there done that :)
<cmaloney> Well, because you liked tiled window managers and Ubuntu didn't make that particularly easy to accomplish
<rick_h_> I liked arch, it worked well for me :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, no worries
<rick_h_> I just didn't update it every day and made sure to keep an eye out for 'tricky' things :)
<rick_h_> that reminds me I need to get my tiling setp working on here again.
<cmaloney> yeah, JOhn doesn't do that, and every now and again it reaches out and collects the good karma
<Dan9er111> cmaloney i feel the same way i really like arch linux but the stability issues hinder its ability to be used for wsomething serious imho
<cmaloney> Yeah
<Dan9er111> ill stick around and try to be usefull
<cmaloney> PLease feel free to hang around
<rick_h_> hah, not a lot of useful here. Much more social :)
<cmaloney> yeah, we're more of the social club. :)
<Dan9er111> i can socialize
<Dan9er111> whats the deal with airplane food
<cmaloney> It's neither for airplanes or food?
<Dan9er111> *laugh track
<jrwren> anyone know current best file system for directories with thousands of files? I didn't know that this is still a limitation. btrfs seems very slow, but even ext4 is slow. Maybe xfs?
<jrwren> Did the lessons of reiserfs ever make it into other filesystems?
<jrwren> might have helped swift: https://github.com/otoolep/rqlite  :}
<gamerchick02> cool?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-28
<nodoubleg> jrwren: anything with a fixed number of inodes is a bad way to go for large numbers of files/directories.
<nodoubleg> jrwren: ZFS is pretty good in that kind of a scenario, I used to admin several large ZFS-based filers that had horrendous workloads.
<nodoubleg> jrwren: when dealing with large numbers of files (I'm counting this as thousands of files and directories nested in thousands of directories), I think it's really useful to be using storage that lets you deal with it at a block level. ZFS and btrfs both have block-level send and receive which greatly simplify backups
<nodoubleg> ZFS is gaining resumable sends/receives sometime this summer.
<nodoubleg> btrfs is ok, but I wouldn't trust it to large production datasets.
<nodoubleg> but i'd use btrfs before I used xfs.
<nodoubleg> the fastest thing out there is still probably ext4, but there's so many other problems I see with ext4 that I gladly trade the performance for the things that something like ZFS gets me.
<jrwren> nodoubleg: i have a btrfs with man files too and its worse than ext4, what am i doing wrong?
<nodoubleg> jrwren: a COW filesystem could end up having problems if it's only on spinning rust.
<nodoubleg> filesystems like ZFS and btrfs have more overhead than older FSes. Ceph takes this even further. Rebuilds in ceph are very network and CPU-intensive, much more than ZFS and btrfs.
<jrwren> nodoubleg: yup. i think i may try ext2
<nodoubleg> if performance is the only concern, then I'd actually recommend ext4.
<nodoubleg> and by "the only concern" i mean you don't care about the data :-P
<jrwren> bwaha
<jrwren> i've never lost data on ext[234]
<nodoubleg> that you know of.
 * nodoubleg won't trust a filesystem that doesn't checksum the data.
<nodoubleg> bcachefs looks promising.
<jrwren> jcastro was using that.
<jrwren> but its not really an fs, is it?
<nodoubleg> the developer of bcachefs realized he was basically making a whole new filesystem, so started work on completing that. it's up as an alpha.
<nodoubleg> jrwren: do you have an SSD handy?
<nodoubleg> and, is your workload synchronous or async? read or write heavy?
<nodoubleg> it sounds like you might need to throw an SSD at the problem. Either using an SSD with bcache, or using it as part of a zpool with ZFS.
<nodoubleg> the filers I ran, 90% of their read IOs were served from memory or the read cache ssd (l2arc)
<nodoubleg> i've used zfs on linux to help absorb some of the brutal read io that gitlab can do. This was in a VM that was backed by a massively oversubscribed NetApp filer. Writes were still slow, but git clones on common repos were speedy.
<dzho> well, given this is an ubuntu channel ...
<dzho> d'oh
<dzho> caught in backscroll again
<dzho> nm
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-20
<cmaloney> rick_h: I'd like that. LMK a time and what-not
<rick_h> cmaloney: 5pm at bad Brad's?
<rick_h> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/9N6DzO5T
<cmaloney> Got it. Thank you!
<jrwren> What are you doing for George Washington's Birthday?
<cmaloney> Looking for jobs?
<cmaloney> as one does. :)
<rick_h> Working on tearing up the last carpet in the house.
<jrwren> ooh! fun!
<jrwren> what you putting in to replace?
<brousch__> Actual lava
<jrwren> this isn't minecraft!
<jrwren> obsidian floors plz.
<rick_h> jrwren: https://m.lowes.com/pd/Cali-Bamboo-Fossilized-3-in-Natural-Smooth-Traditional-Bamboo-Hardwood-Flooring-22-69-sq-ft/999957114
<rick_h> Has be be floating due to the poured concrete basement
<cmaloney> http://pythonforengineers.com/the-programming-interview-from-hell/
<jrwren> rick_h: ha! I almost asked if it was bamboo, but I didn't want to assume.
<jrwren> I love bamboo floors
<jrwren> rick_h: you putting that in yourself?
<cmaloney> Just make sure that shit is sealed
<cmaloney> because I had a bamboo mat from one of those office places
<cmaloney> and it gave me some amazing spliters
<cmaloney> splinters
<jrwren> cmaloney: lol @ hentai
<jrwren> and I just went for a run and my lungs are fucked. so i'm lolling so hard I am coughing
<cmaloney> Oh, sorry. :l
<jrwren> no no... its great. I love it.
<cmaloney> My favorite in there was "where are linked lists used" "in programming interviews"
<cmaloney> same with Big O notation
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, it's pretty simple stuff.
<rick_h> I wish I could put more of my hickory down like we used upstairs
<rick_h> I hate the floating doors required on concrete
<rick_h> Floors not doors doh
<brousch__> Floating doors suck too, especially for the bathroom
<rick_h> Oh yea, would do wood for the bathroom. Really only like tile for that use case
<cmaloney> Yeah, wood keeps smells
<shakes808> Not sure if anyone here has to traverse Hall Rd, but it is going to get much more interesting the next few years: http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/macomb/2017/02/19/hall-road-m59-construction-macomb/97938346/
<cmaloney> Yeah, Hall Road is going ot be really screwed up
<shakes808> lets see if it only takes until 2018
<shakes808> would be nice to have michigan construction be time lined correctly
<cmaloney> Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<hpucks> ^
<shakes808> one could hope! ha ha.  And the other question is that will it actually last the 20 - 25 years that they are predicting? :/
<aisrael> rick_h, I had one minor pen leak on the flight to Spain, but I was smart and carried them in a ziploc baggie. I must not have filled the one up completely, but it was close.
<brousch__> hipsters
<rick_h> aisrael: cool, glad it mostly worked out
<_stink__> brousch__++
<cmaloney> Pretty sure it goes: crayon/ pencil / pen / computer / fountain pen / quill
<brousch__> I prefer mechanical pencils
<cmaloney> Same
<cmaloney> Though if I had my druthers I'd probably still be using a fountain pen
<cmaloney> though they tend to dry out on me and clog up.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-21
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink__> yo
<shakes808> morning
<brousch__> morn
<rick_h> Morning
<jrwren> good morning
<cmaloney> Ordered the loco pack for the Ubuntu Release Party at Penguicon. Got confirmation they're sending it. W00t
<jrwren> cool!
<cmaloney> Current badass soundtrack: https://metropolisrecords.bandcamp.com/album/weapon
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-22
<cmaloney> JoDee (in her networking class) was trying to find out what layer TLS used
<cmaloney> and found that it operates at several layers
<cmaloney> (and found several different descriptions of which layers it worked at)
<cmaloney> I quote: "Fuck the OSI model"
<cmaloney> Also: Good morning
<jrwren> good morning.
<jrwren> cool mug topic. I remember Officer Liposky from when I was at Oakland.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, it should be interesting. :)
<shakes808> morning
<shakes808> cmaloney: yeah, I didn't enjoy my networking class either. interesting stuff. so interesting, i will let the network guys deal with it :)
<jrwren> Most networking classes are pretty bad AFAIK.
<jrwren> maybe we should run our own :)
<shakes808> haha, I would sign up :)
<jrwren> when you give a crazy emacs lover a phd, they do wicked shit like publish this junk: http://mjambon.github.io/vim-vs-emacs/
<_stink_> haha!
<_stink_> this is great.
<_stink_> worth noting that the content involved here is prose plus figures/equations
<_stink_> far different from code.
<jrwren> _stink_: ya know, that is a really good point.
<_stink_> not that my vim ego is hurt or anything. :)
<jrwren> mine is. a bit.
<smart> Hi Guys!
<smart> Anyone?
<brousch__> Me!
<smart> OK
<smart> Do you know if coffee house coders are geting together tonight and at what hour?
<smart> I know that they are getting together in Royal Oak, but at what time?
<smart> Hello!
<cmaloney> Nice of them to wait
<brousch__> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-23
<cmaloney> http://www.chessmastery.com/bongcloud.pdf
<gamerchick02> oooo
<gamerchick02> intersting
<gamerchick02> i didn't know you played chess
<cmaloney> I haven't played in a long time, and definitely not competitively
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<shakes808> morning
<_stink_> hello
<brousch__> yo
<greg-g> wee
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<greg-g> working on next fiscal year's travel budget, so.... yes? no?
<jrwren> ill... but not so ill that i need to be in bed... so... no.
<rick_h> Ugh on both accounts
<rick_h> ill and budgets ... Hmm which is worse
<_stink_> bugets
<_stink_> d
<cmaloney> Got the Ubuntu Lanyards from Canonical. Also stickers
<cmaloney> so we're set to rock for Penguicon
<jrwren> even I would rather suffer this weirdness than do a budget :p
<hpucks> \o/
<Zimdale> hoooray \o/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-24
<cmaloney> Sitting in the coffeeshop. Tables all around. And I am blessed with three women who are sitting (no shit) at the next table
<cmaloney> Vale of Pnath take me away.
<_stink_> hah
<cmaloney> https://valeofpnath.bandcamp.com/album/ii
<gamerchick02> pretty women?
<gamerchick02> sorry i went to TGIFridays for a guy's going away
<cmaloney> Eh, not sure that matters.
<cmaloney> just happen to be within earshot if it weren't for my headphones and their "I can listen to classical while mowing the lawn" noise-canceling abilities
<cmaloney> Though one of them is animated like "The Sims"
<gamerchick02> haha
<rick_h> morning
<wolfger> morning
<wolfger> Happy Friday
<rick_h> wheeee
<shakes808> that is it
<jrwren> foggy friday
<rick_h> yea, was hoping it'd be nice and ride the bike to school today
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-25
<gamerchick02> morning everyone
<gamerchick02> the concert was super good last night. so glad i went
<cmaloney> cool!
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> Woot to concerts
<jrwren> there was a concert?
<cmaloney> jrwren: There's always a concert
<jrwren> oh cool! I had forgotten
<jrwren> a buddy of mine saw Tesla this week. He was excited for it.
<cmaloney> I'm glad someone was. :)
<gamerchick02> i went to the Unity church in Lake Orion. Zig and Siusan were there playing folk music
<jrwren> oh fun!
<gamerchick02> it was! i'm so glad i went. i cut the bugcast short (i usually party in the mumble after) to get dinner and go
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-26
<tony-smlr> we are about to go live: SMLR E228 (2/26/2017) Video:  Video http://youtu.be/j6iOc_v4JMc Audio: http://www.podcastdetroit.com/how-to-listen/listen-to-studio-3/
<cmaloney> good morning
<gamerchick02> howdy
<gamerchick02> i have coffee and food.
<cmaloney> same. THat's good. :)
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> been a good weekend so far.
<gamerchick02> i should clean.
<gamerchick02> i don't want to. :-P
<_stink_> nap instead
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> i might.
<gamerchick02> i'm watching Premier League right now
<gamerchick02> Tottenham is whaling on Stoke City, 4-0
<cmaloney> I thought whaling was illegal
<cmaloney> also: I have no clue what any of that is. :)
<gamerchick02> soccer
<gamerchick02> i'm a... *whispers* soccer fan
<cmaloney> it's OK. You're among friends
<gamerchick02> it's the reason i pay for Sling TV
 * cmaloney dials 911
<gamerchick02> just for NBCSN and FS1 and FS2
<gamerchick02> Premier League and Bundesleague
<cmaloney> That's OK. Whereabouts are you? The... uh... pizzaa delivery people want to know
<gamerchick02> Auburn Hills! but i don't suppose i can be deported for supporting Liverpool
<cmaloney> ;)
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> am i the only one in the state who doesn't like Paczki? i never got the appeal
<_stink_> if they are in front if my face i will eat them.
<_stink_> gamerchick02: it ws funny to watch Harry Kane go grab the ball from the ref after the game
<gamerchick02> _stink_ nice. you were there?
<cmaloney> We got a box a few weeks ago. JoDee doesn't care for them. I don't mind them.
<gamerchick02> ah. well enjoy your paczki. i will let you have all mine
<cmaloney> I'm good for the season, thank you. :)
<gamerchick02> you're welcome! :)
<_stink_> gamerchick02: i wish.  they showed it afterward on tv
<gamerchick02> aw darn
<cmaloney> rick_h: Your office is looking mighty fine
<cmaloney> though the whiteboard needs more "Rick's Whiteboard of DOOM" on it.
<rick_h> Hah
<rick_h> Woodshop, not office
<rick_h> Office moved upstairs
<cmaloney> Eh?
<cmaloney> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/33133311045/in/photostream/ ?
<cmaloney> N'est-ce pas un bureau?
<rick_h> Yea, moving my workbenches and hand tool woodworking tools there.
<rick_h> There's one desk left for the Maas setup
<rick_h> But that's going to be a corner of my woodshop
<cmaloney> Ah, OK
<rick_h> A future picture will make more sense.
<rick_h> With toolboxes and workbenches and shuch
<cmaloney> With sawing and sawdust for all. :)
<gamerchick02> that link is your workshop? i'm jelly, rick_h
<gamerchick02> i should not go to Vaults of Midnight. i've come back with yet another comic novel.
<rick_h> gamerchick02: yea, though now it's much more full of junk. Migrated a bunch of stuff from the garage down to the newly floored room
<gamerchick02> ah cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-19
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> How's the day?
<Scary_Guy> pretty amazing.  threw my Valentine's party at City Club Saturday and despite the lack of heat, money, and the presence of stress it went okay
<Scary_Guy> then yesterday I checked out a church that a friend is buying and we're going to turn that into a concert venue/club
<Scary_Guy> with heat!
<cmaloney> Nice!
<jrwren> whoa! buying an old church to open a club! that is cool. Where at?
<cmaloney> "We are looking for a senior python developer and i see that you have worked with it. I am attaching a brief job description."
<cmaloney> Yay, I have worked with senior python
<cmaloney> Wonder if I can get a senior discount
<rick_h> hah, is that how it works?
<waldo323_> at first I read it as SeÃ±or python...I was wrong
<cmaloney> si
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-20
<Scary_Guy> it's in Detroit off of Dexter near M10 and Livernois
<Scary_Guy> also, morning
<Scary_Guy> I like the ones where they wanted five years experience in a two year old language
<cmaloney> Good AM
<brousch> Scary_Guy: Well it takes several years to create a language, so what they really want is one of the developers _of_ that language
<cmaloney> yeah
<Scary_Guy> yeah, lots of luck with that one
<cmaloney> You never know.
<cmaloney> Someone who is a higly capable developer at some tech company might want to go work in the cube farms of Ford someday
<cmaloney> on a 80K 6 month contract in a .NET environment
<cmaloney> 80K per year
<brousch> ew
<cmaloney> Or Java. Maybe they could find the developer of Clojure to work there in theirnewly formed BI/2 department
<cmaloney> Business Intelligence by Half
<jrwren> you described my retirement :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: You're going to invent a language and then take contract positions at Ford? :)
<jrwren> yes :)
<cmaloney> Godspeed
<jrwren> I filed a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eog/+bug/1750651
<cmaloney> Man, I hate GTK+ / GNOME man pages
<cmaloney> They're worse than useless
<cmaloney> https://octodon.social/@craigmaloney/99559681995295161
<brousch> Surprise! Does your wife know yet?
<cmaloney> Pretty sure this is a surprise to JoDee as well
<cmaloney> She told me to not fool around in the alternate universe and now I know why
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-21
<jrwren> I ended up with this as my poor man's random photo frame: `find /run/user/1000/gvfs/smb-share:server=server,share=photos | sort -R | while read file ; do timeout 24h eog --fullscreen --disable-gallery $file ; done`
<jrwren> learned about sort -R
<cmaloney> Have you looked at Feh?
<cmaloney> sort -R is awesome
<jrwren> maybe feh was the one I was using 2 weeks ago and forgot about. hehehe. I couldn't remember its name and it was gone from bash history :(
<cmaloney> nice
<jrwren> yup, feh was it. it was close, but not what I wanted.
<cmaloney> feh iswhat I used when wv wasn't cuting it anymore
<jrwren> i'll give it another look.
<jrwren> maybe I should checkout wv too
<cmaloney> xv is too old
<cmaloney> iirc it had colomap issues
<Scary_Guy> feh is good, there are a few others too that do the same thing
<Scary_Guy> nitrogen is what I was thinking of
<Scary_Guy> https://urukrama.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/desktop-backgrounds-in-window-managers/ has a pretty large list, though it's over 10 years old now
<Scary_Guy> it's not like this tech changes all that much though
<jrwren> not anymore anyway.
<Scary_Guy> what WM do you use?
<Scary_Guy> and/or DE
<jrwren> 100% defaults.
<Scary_Guy> defaults of what?
<Scary_Guy> oh, lol
<Scary_Guy> not everyone in here uses Ubuntu, but I guess most probably do
<jrwren> I barely use desktop linux, so I really have no idea what it is called. Its not KDE or enlightenment.
<Scary_Guy> try typing screenfetch / neofetch into a terminal
<Scary_Guy> I like those for quick info
<Scary_Guy> neofetch is basically an updated more robust screenfetch
<jrwren> intersting
<Scary_Guy> Hardinfo is great too, it reminds me of AIDA32/64 and whatever that other one was on Windows, but it isn't CLI
<jrwren> neither installed by default.
<Scary_Guy> https://github.com/dylanaraps/neofetch
<jrwren> i think it would find it as gnome
<jrwren> https://github.com/dylanaraps/neofetch/blob/master/neofetch#L702
<Scary_Guy> well, I know Ubuntu was using Unity, but that's ending in favor of Gnome.  I just haven't been keeping up on that so I don't know what it is now
<jrwren> i don't see how neofetch would ever return Unity as a result.  https://github.com/dylanaraps/neofetch/blob/master/neofetch#L1811
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-22
<jrwren> Good Morning.
<jrwren> I'd like to share with you what I ultimately landed on as a bmarks.us or self hosted bookie replacement, all these years later: make your own reddit sub.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> rick_h: Happy Birthday Rick!
<cmaloney> jrwren: Hah.
<cmaloney> Funnily enough someone was asking about a self-hosted bookmark solution and wondered about what features they would want to put in there and I said "Well, funny you should mention that; have you looked at the features of Bookie?"
<cmaloney> Honestly nothing I've seen has come close to Bookie. It is remarkable.
<jrwren> oh yeah!  Happy Birthday Rick.
<dzho> cmaloney: my bookmarking is still disconnected, but I think if I start coordinating it in any way it'll be by running https://mozilla-services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run-sync-1.5.html
<cmaloney> Yeah, i have yet to find something that has matched Bookie
<cmaloney> MOst of my bookmarks are in Chrome and Duck Duck Go
<jrwren> DDG has bmarks?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, and it even supports keyword searching
<cmaloney> just remember the same keywords that you used and it'll find the bookmarks. ;)
<jrwren> i only use !bang syntax as keywords :)
<rick_h> ty cmaloney and jrwren
<rick_h> the big thing is that bookmarks have potential to be much more than a file of links
<rick_h> that's the thing I feel like gets missed out on
<cmaloney> Totally
<cmaloney> and it's something I thought Bookie got right
<rick_h> well, was working towards
<cmaloney> I still think there's life in those tires but I don't know front-end enough to make it work
<cmaloney> and the back-end piece has a lot of libraries that aren't getting updated anymore
<rick_h> yea, bummed. Part of giving up on it was google was doing bookmarks and pin-whatever seemed to be the geek choice and such
<jrwren> redditsub
<rick_h> saturated market
<cmaloney> Right, but the self-hosted stuff really isn't there
<rick_h> jrwren: so how's the redditsub thing work? You can keep it private and add links from different sources easily?
<cmaloney> unless you count [Next|Own]Cloud
<rick_h> cmaloney: yea, but self-hosted isn't big enough for the time investment
<cmaloney> I think the tides are changing
<rick_h> hah, have to love that "I want my own X...so here's all the things!"
<cmaloney> now that ActivityPub is standardized we can do the federation with different platforms
<cmaloney> And make it a truly social platform
 * cmaloney is still in the "sprinkle federation on it to compete with the big players" phase
<rick_h> I need to see that work I guess. I don't really know of anywhere it has.
<jrwren> rick_h: I keep it public, because I typically don't care. But yes, add links with a bookmark shortcut script, wtf are those called?
<jrwren> javascript:location.href='http://www.reddit.com/r/jrwren/submit?url='+encodeURIComponent(location.href)+'&title='+encodeURIComponent(document.title)
<rick_h> bookmarklet
<rick_h> yea, I think that a real bookmark solution needs to support private, searching, tagging, and sharing into other folk's collections. I like the lastpass setup for the sharing setup these day
<rick_h> use that a lot with my wife so I can manage the finances but she has the login for when she's in the mood to check stuff out
<cmaloney> rick_h: ActivityPub is in use for Mastodon and Peertube.
<cmaloney> and a few others are coming on board.
<jrwren> private would be a different reddit sub, but reddit does all the rest of what you just said.
<rick_h> Cool
<cmaloney> Michael Hall is working on GetTogether as well to compete with Meetup
<cmaloney> and we've mentioned ActivityPub for federating that content
<jrwren> and since reddit it open source, one could host it yourself.
<cmaloney> Is it still? I thought there were rumbings that it wasn't current / buildable
<cmaloney> Like Sourceforge's code became OSS but you wouldn't want to build it
<cmaloney> and the hardware requirements to run it were pretty high
<dzho> Too Big To Fork is what I call those sorts of things
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> adam had juju charms deploying reddit a few yrs ago. I don't know if it still works.
<dzho> it's a combination of the parent site having too much centrality due to network effects and first mover effects, coupled with maintaining the code base being too big a lift for the reward, and too much configuration being specific to an instance.
<dzho> given the channel, I think Launchpad is probably a good example.
<jrwren> eh, its equivocal becuase LP wasn't opensource until it was. reddit always was?
<jrwren> the LP OSS suffered because it wasn't designed to be hosted by others until much later.
<jrwren> but then, I guess reddit wasn't always open source either. it was jsut opened much earlier in its life. https://redditblog.com/2008/06/17/reddit-goes-open-source/
<jrwren> still, I think you are probably right. The complexity of reddit was one of the things that made the juju so impressive. it wasn't just wordpress and mysql.
<dzho> even wordpress teeters on the TBTF edge.
<dzho> I mean, sure, people self-host it all over the place.
<dzho> but then they get pwned all over the place.
<jrwren> WAT?
<jrwren> I must misunderstand waht you mean by TBTF
<dzho> too big to fork
<jrwren> depends on the goal of the fork, I suppose.
<brousch> cmaloney: Is this GetTogether? https://gettogether.community/
<brousch> It's really not clear what that is
<rick_h> yea, really hate things that don't land with their pitch
<jrwren> k8s Helm took me a while to figure out. They never really explain what they are.
<jrwren> they use analogy, but they are poor and so it took me a while to get WTF they do and why I'd want it.
<jrwren> Analogy is the WORST way to describe what you are doing.
<rick_h> "the uber of ..." ? :P
<jrwren> ugh.
<rick_h> helm looks a lot like charms :P
<jrwren> doesn't it?!?
<rick_h> helm install vs juju deploy :P
<rick_h> yea, there's a lot of talk of what CaaS in Juju looks like and I keep thinking it looks a lot like https://hub.kubeapps.com/charts/stable/artifactory
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, that's the one
<rick_h>  open source, experts in adoption :P
<jrwren> STILL?!?!  its 8mo later... 1yr later since we talked about it in New Orleans
<rick_h> jrwren: still what?
<jrwren> still lots of talk :)
<rick_h> heh well there's code there
<rick_h> but to be fair everyone working on it has left
<rick_h> so wheeeee
<jrwren> whoa!
<jrwren> people must have left that I didn't know about.
<rick_h> McKraken, menno, axw,
<rick_h> mattyw
<jrwren> yup, I didn't know.
<jrwren> mattyw left?!?!
<rick_h> (though he didn't work on caas)
<rick_h> yea
<cmaloney> Is there anyone still working on code at Canonical that isn't Dustin?
<rick_h> dustin doesn't work on any code
<cmaloney> Ah, well then
<rick_h> his idea of coding is to bash script something with our tools and give it a funny name
 * rick_h stops before he gets himself in trouble
<jrwren> yup
<cmaloney> Ah. Apparently I conflated that with code. :)
<rick_h> yea, he's a good salesman
<cmaloney> https://gettogether.community/ <- Just added an event to this page
<cmaloney> We'll see if it gets any traction. :)
<rick_h> hah
<cmaloney> The interface reminds me a LOT of the Ubuntu Loco interface
<cmaloney> asking for lat / long
<cmaloney> using a drop-down for city that is a type-in field
<cmaloney> really rough, but workable
<brousch> I was wondering why that came up as nearby me, then remembered our VPN often makes it look like I'm in Detroit
<cmaloney> It's the only event in MI so that's another reason
<brousch> If I put in Grand Rapids, 100km, it goes away
<cmaloney> ah
<cmaloney> https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/19883 <- God bless NPM
<jrwren> LMAO @ page taking too long to load unicorn
<_stink__> cmaloney: that's a fun read
<cmaloney> I love that's a pre-release
<cmaloney> but with a minor version number
<cmaloney> um...
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-23
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> Good Morning
<_stink__> yo
<rick_h> Party
<jrwren> so... somehow my lxd zpool disappeared, but I still have a device type zfs.
<jrwren> does anyone know how to recover?
<jrwren> all the "docs" are about creating new, not about importing a device already created.
<jrwren> zpool attach maybe?
<jrwren> ah! no, i'm looking for zpool import, but in my case, its zfs on lvm, so I need to add -d /dev/vgname
<jrwren> ok, this makes no sense. zpool import says it is there and can be used, but zpool list says no pools.
<jrwren> added -a to import all and it works. neato bambido
<jrwren> yay, i can use lxc again
<cmaloney> nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-24
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink__> yo
<greg-g> evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-25
<widox> heyo
<greg-g> doing the taxes
<greg-g> and done :)
<jrwren> i should do that someday :)
<cmaloney> yeah, i need to do our
<cmaloney> s
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-19
<Scary_Guy> So, I'm running a realtime kernel to try it out because it's recommended for high-end audio applications.  I don't really need it but it's fun to try new things.  Odd thing is my video will now randomly blink for about 2-3 seconds.  Not often but often enough that it's annoying.  Maybe once or twice every 30 minutes, but I haven't timed it.
<Scary_Guy> Does anyone have any ideas as to why this might happen?  Primary monitor is using Display Port.  Secondary is using HDMI and that had a similar issue but more frequently when playing audio (I don't remember the specifics but I'm pretty sure it was only when using HDMI for audio output.)
<Scary_Guy> My duckduckgo-fu is failing me too.  I'm trying every word combo I can think of.
<jrwren> if you change to std kernel it still blinks?
<cmaloney> WOnder if they're losing sync
<Scary_Guy> I did update it when I switched so that is possible.  I'll switch back and see if that helps.  Probably should have thought of the obvious, thanks for pointing it out.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-20
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4ag4mw/this-college-banned-students-from-even-discussing-facial-recognition?utm_source=reddit.com
<jrwren> lul OCC
<cmaloney> JFC
<jrwren> dang it greg-g wikpedia.org seems to have changed the cipher suite that is selected for me... it was my odd-ball test host. :)
<greg-g> hah, what was odd?
<cmaloney> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-20/trump-backer-ellison-gets-president-s-support-in-google-fight
<greg-g> ugh
<jrwren> i thought it was an uncommon TLS_* cipher suite, but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.
<cmaloney> Honestly I think Oracle might want to rethink this strategy
<jrwren> why? oracle is making TONS of money.
<cmaloney> "I see you're looking for Java. Go fuck yourself".
<cmaloney> Honestly if there was anything I could do to hasten Oracle's demise I would.
<jrwren> they are on the IBM track and will probably follow its analog closely.
<jrwren> continue to have huge enterprise customers.
<jrwren> not do anything very interesting.
<jrwren> aquire, assimilate, and ultimately destroy companies.
<jrwren> they'll be around for our entire lives but will largely remain irrelevant
<cmaloney> Yes, but they keep making stupid comments like "OSS databases are a security risk"
<cmaloney> as opposed to IBM which speaks like the Ents of Tolkein's world where nobody can understand what they say because it is too slow. ;)
<greg-g> jrwren: we might be odd, I know Brandon Black (lead traffic engineer) is very aggressively pushing us forward wrt ciphers
<greg-g> cmaloney: heh, that tweet from that oracle dude about OSS dbs is now unavailable
<greg-g> but he did tweet https://twitter.com/matthewokeefe1/status/1229433884489719808
<greg-g> which says "Maybe you should read the original tweet, where I made that clear." which he... deleted
<greg-g> hilarious
<jrwren> wrt ciphers?
<greg-g> with respect to ciphers we're trying to be progressive/push things to newer better as fast/best we can given our large userbase (including stupid old windows machines)
<jrwren> you still support IE6 on Win 2k?
<jrwren> do you support non-SSL? I mean... that would open the most support... not requiring TLS
<jrwren> :)
<greg-g> nope! :)
<greg-g> we have hsts enabled
<jrwren> darned shame ;)
<greg-g> https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=en.wikipedia.org&s=2620%3a0%3a863%3aed1a%3a0%3a0%3a0%3a1
<greg-g> :P
<jrwren> oh, i'm definitely not trying to dis your config.
<greg-g> I know :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-22
<cmaloney> morning
