#edubuntu 2006-07-17
<mhz> crimsun: r u there
<crimsun> mhz: barely, what's up?
<mhz> crimsun: hey, thx for ponging
<mhz> crimsun: are you a freenode people?
<crimsun> mhz: meaning "am I FN staff member"? No, I'm not.
<crimsun> nalioth is, as is rob
<mhz> crimsun: oh, okis
<mhz> good to know
<mhz> those are their nicks?
<crimsun> yes
<mhz> thx, a lot
<crimsun> np :-)
<mhz> crimsun: know if Seveas is from FN?
<Burgundavia> mhz: no, he is not
<mhz> Burgundavia: oh, good. thx, too.
<jsgotangco> mhz: you can also look for HedgeMadge
<crimsun> she stepped down from staff in the short run
<jsgotangco> ahh
<mhz> okis, jsgotangco thx
<mhz> jsgotangco: i wathced ESPN and I thought I would see ya on TV
<jsgotangco> err?
<mhz> yeah, XGames in Guadalumpur
<mhz> or something like that
<jsgotangco> Kuala Lumpur
<jsgotangco> that's like 3 hours away from me by plane
<jsgotangco> :P
<mhz> oooh, not that close
<jsgotangco> but yeah XGames qualifiers are always done in KL probably beside the Petronas Towers
<mhz> very nice guys doing very difficult stuff
<mhz> indedd
<jsgotangco> its always humid there
<jsgotangco> i sometimes go there for holiday or if i have money to splurge for F1
<Burgundavia> hey ogra, jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hey
* jsgotangco is pretty idle at work atm
<mhz> as usual?
<jsgotangco> lol
<mhz> jsgotangco: :)
<mhz_zZzZ> jsgotangco: buona notte
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<iGotNoTime> hello I have a question about Edubuntu... in multimedia systems selector can both the input and output of the audio tab be set to ALSA?
<crimsun> yes, but both default to alsa already.
<crimsun> autoselect -> alsa, oss, null  (in that order)
<iGotNoTime> well I adjusted my mixer and both volume and mic input work
<iGotNoTime> however in the systems selector I click test the mic and it freezes
<crimsun> 'it' being...?
<iGotNoTime> also in sound recorder when I play a file it is ok but when I record it freezes too
<iGotNoTime> the menu
<iGotNoTime> the software
<iGotNoTime> yet I can hear the mic when I allow mic monitoring
<crimsun> ok, in M.S.S., change the default audio source
<crimsun> choose custom
<iGotNoTime> ok to what?
<iGotNoTime> any suggestion?
<crimsun> then in the text entry box, type: alsasrc device=plughw:0
<iGotNoTime> sorry for being ok
<iGotNoTime>  :)
<crimsun> then click Test
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<RichEd_> question anyone: is it "normal" in an edubuntu install to get a blank screen with just two while blocks []  at about 60% of the way through "select & install software" ... for 5 -> 10 mins before the CD drive ejects and you get the boot menu ?
<RichEd_> white <- while :P
<jsgotangco> errr
<jsgotangco> did you do the install using the livecd?
<jsgotangco> no that's not normal btw
<RichEd_> hi ... installed from 6.06 ...
<jsgotangco> its probably your display adapter acting up
<RichEd_> could be my "unusual" set up ... HP notebook without internal CD ... so I was plugged into docking station with CD and external monitor ...
<jsgotangco> it'll just black out for a few seconds when the display adapter is configured if you installed it with the text install
<jsgotangco> but the install went fine?
<RichEd_> was not just a few secs :) at 1:00 am this morning I figured it was a hard hang ... had to hold my power off for 15 secs to get a shutdown
<RichEd_> 90% of the way complete this morning ... now at the GRUB screen ...
<RichEd_> (was a bit more patient this morning, but almost thought there was a problem again)
<jsgotangco> did you burn the cd or used a pressed one?
<RichEd_> Spanking new Official CD ... from JaneW's store :)
<jsgotangco> well either of the two did you check if the cd is good? 
<jsgotangco> yeah the pressed one has a higher chance of having a good install
<RichEd_> I will try that when complete ... the check CD option ...
<jsgotangco> but installing from a liveCD shouldn't take more than an hour after partitioning
<RichEd_> My guess is that the display stuff is configured at around 60%, wasn;t 100% okay for my display setup - and then I did not see any more progress update while the ramining 40% completed
<jsgotangco> because it just copies stuff
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> oh okay so you mean you reinstalled again when you thought it failed right?
<RichEd_> yeah ... and seems okay now ... at GRUB
<RichEd_> but did have a panic after hard reboot ... cannot load operating system ... thought my XP install was gone
<RichEd_> (new XP no data - but OEM for which I have no CD) but went back into Edubuntu install & fiddled with NTFS partition ... and set to bootable
<jsgotangco> yeah that can be hairy
<RichEd_> may freak out a newbie Windows to Linux convert ... luckily I remembered some partition stuff from my DOS FDisk days ... (about 15 years ago :)
<jsgotangco> the graphical installer does need some work on the partitioning part
<jsgotangco> its part of the TODO for this cycle
<RichEd_> and this brought up an issue we must look at ... if someone is relying on online help, and, and has only 1 PC, and then gets it into an unbootable state ... how do they look for forum help ?
<jsgotangco> yeah its been brought up before
<jsgotangco> i think what would be nce is to have a printable quick install page
<jsgotangco> the current one is rater terse since it was taken from upstream
<RichEd_> yep ... especially one that says: if you have only one PC ... PRINT THIS document before you start :)
<RichEd_> with the panic issues addressed in easy FAQ style ...
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> all appliances do have a simple troubleshooting page
<jsgotangco> and the cover sleeve itself needs to have it indicated as well i guess
<RichEd_> again ... need to encourage the installee to print ... maybe in hitchhikers guide style large friendly letters :)
<jsgotangco> it can be available when the user is in windows and inserts the cd
<jsgotangco> the winfoss stuff pops up
<RichEd_> okay ... i only booted clean from CD ... didn't go the insert while running windows route ...
<jsgotangco> yeah win32 versions of office, gaim, firefox are also in the cd
<RichEd_> i did know that but did not intend to run under windows ... so did not bother ...
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> i guess its not printed clearly
<jsgotangco> heh
<RichEd_> perhaps we should suggest it on the sleeve "If you have an existing windows system insert while running windows to get a quick guide", with an autorun and some print suggestions ...
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i think a 5 page pdf or html would suffice
<RichEd_> more than enough ... not big issues, but could be a showstopper ... we don't want to lose a potential convert
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> maybe i should make a spec
* jsgotangco digs for old specs that look like such
<RichEd_> i'll keep a note of this all ... and will bring it up ... also found some good external site guides that helped me in preparing the whole dual boot thing.
<jsgotangco> yeah sometimes we're so engrossed in creating a document with all the features that we take for granted one of the biggest showstoppers to most users is actually installing it ;)
<RichEd_> and as I said to someone yesterday, we are "competing with a pre-installed OS" so we have to make it super easy 
<jsgotangco> macOSX?
<jsgotangco> heh
<RichEd_> or the "Human Beings" may just default back to "path of least resistance
<jsgotangco> kidding
<RichEd_> :)
<RichEd_> will leave you alone for a bit now ... about to finish off at GRUB prompt ... any suggested offical Ubuntu help links on what to do from here (to keep dual boot) ?
<jsgotangco> help.ubuntu.com has all the documents from the distro as well as a "getting there" comprehensive guide from the community to get you started in your desktop
<jsgotangco> like codecs, printer setup, sharing, etc.
<RichEd_> thanks ... just not 100% clear what the GRUB prompt will do from here ... is it just asking me to select a boot option for install purposes, or is it going to set primary boot option ?r
<jsgotangco> it just asks you that it detected the OS installed and will add it to GRUB if you just hit enter, it'll just have XP as the 2nd option and Ubuntu will be the default OS to boot
<RichEd_> okay ... tx ... pressing on
<jsgotangco> im just online and a bit idle at the moment just in case
<RichEd_> thanks ... may ask for some help when i install Ubuntu on the next partition if i get stuck ... (want to have both bootable for demo) ... and may add Kubuntu for the same reason.
<cbx33> mornin all
<cbx33> mornin RichEd__ 
<jsgotangco> yo
<RichEd__> 'lo cbx33 
<cbx33> hey jsgotangco 
<cbx33> RichEd__: gonna get that spreadsheet underway today
<cbx33> I was thinking although wiki would be good for colab, it's not gonna work for the formulae
<cbx33> we'll have to exchange files
<RichEd__> okay ... will be a little busy ... (still setting up) ... but get it going
<cbx33> no no that's fine
* RichEd has a successful edubuntu install :)))
<ogra> yay
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> ogra: can I ask a quick question
<cbx33> I can't seem to find the copyright holders for some of the human icons I've used
<cbx33> in the ubuntu-artwork pacakge
<ogra> human cons should all be described in the debian/copyright file of the artwork package
<cbx33> that's what I thought
<cbx33> they're not
<ogra> if there is still something missing probably dholbach knows who to contact (no idea if he did anything with human)
<cbx33> ah unless
<RichEd> must say it looks very slick :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: do i smell knot-1 coming?
<ogra> jsgotangco, YES ! :)
<jsgotangco> is it build already?
<ogra> looks like i made it :)
<ogra> yep
<jsgotangco> where do i grab it?
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/
<ogra> live is broken 
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> casper issue?
<ogra> but install looks very good
<ogra> yep
<jsgotangco> ill grab amd54
<jsgotangco> err 64
<ogra> i'm just trying to rsync on top of a dapper iso ...
<ogra> not really helping ... ETA 2h
<jsgotangco> ill just see how it goes before dawn
<jsgotangco> =)
<RichEd> jsgotangco: ping for a quick question or two ?
<jsgotangco> sure
<RichEd> does my swap partition take care if itself ? i don't see it as a volume ?
<ogra> jsgotangco, thanks for the nes update btw 
<ogra> *news
<jsgotangco> RichEd: nope
<jsgotangco> its like a windows scratch disk, you can't see it but its there
<jsgotangco> and its being used
<jsgotangco> when needed
<jsgotangco> ogra: no worries, it seems mgalvin disappeared all of a sudden so i guess Ridell sent it?
<ogra> yep
<RichEd> thanks ... and another q: i created a fat32 "common" partition ... which i see as a folder off the root of my File System ... does it not appear as a seperate drive like XP sees it ?
<jsgotangco> ill try sending it myself next time just in case mgalvin still MIA
<jsgotangco> the filesystem has no concept of "drives"
<jsgotangco> just files and folders
<jsgotangco> hence your partition is just a folder
<jsgotangco> even devices are treated as files
<RichEd> (excuse the language) but i mean as I see my NTFS partition called: hda1 as an icon on my desktop ...
<cbx33> RichEd: how can you mutter such profanity
<cbx33> ;)
* RichEd washes out my mouth with *strong* soap
<cbx33> hehe, it's ok, I have to administrate a windows network in my current position
<RichEd> note: i ask dumb questions but i usually learn quickly
<ogra> there are no dumb questions :P
<jsgotangco> RichEd: yeah, its normal, we have it as a feature to automatically mount windows partitions
<jsgotangco> but yeah hda is you real HD
<jsgotangco> its actually mounted in /media
<JaneW> jsgotangco: hi-dy ho
<RichEd> well not really the entire HD ... as i also see hda5 & hda6 icons on the desktop which are just (unformatted) partitions waiting for my Ubuntu & Kubuntu alternate boot installs
<jsgotangco> JaneW: boo
<JaneW> jsgotangco: looks like RichEd wil need to give you some Amarula when he meets you :)
<RichEd> q: is there a way of seeing the FAT32 partition as a "root level object like hda1"  and not just as a folder \common
<jsgotangco> you mean mount it and see it in your desktop in a different name?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i'll probably not decline that then
<RichEd> ahhh yes (i think that's what i mean)
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> the howto is available in the documentation under Desktop Guide
<jsgotangco> System->Help->System Documentation
* RichEd rtfm
<jsgotangco> Ubuntu Desktop Guide -> Configuring Your System -> Partitions and Booting
<jsgotangco> you need to dig into the console though
<jsgotangco> not sure if Disk Administration will handle it automatically
<jsgotangco> hmm maybe it does
<jsgotangco> System -> Administration -> Disks
<jsgotangco> then click the Partitions Tab
<jsgotangco> bbl dinner
<jsgAFK> RichEd: i'll just afk for a while and be back in an hour or two
<RichEd> not a problem ... i have enough to fiddle around with ... nothing critical ... just questions for understanding ...
* RichEd buries his head in the manual
<cbx33> hey rodarvus 
<rodarvus> good morning
<rodarvus> hi cbx33!
<cbx33> howz it all going
<rodarvus> good, still  feeling a bit dizzy, as its still monday early morning in here ;)
<rodarvus> *garfield effect
<ogra> you had lasagne yesterday ?
<ogra> :)
<rodarvus> haha
<JaneW> hey ogra :)
<ogra> hey JaneW :)
<JaneW> ogra: how's your house move? All done yet?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i
<ogra> 'm in the old house to mop up the last furniture this week
* ogra kicks his ' key ... its way to near to the enter key on that new laptop
<JaneW> ogra: oic. Your pets moved already?
<JaneW> ogra, the ' is notoriously troublesome for me too!
<ogra> they moved two weeks before paris 
<cbx33> cool
<ogra> i did little tours with a van on the last weekends, but the big truck for the bigger pieces is planned for next weekend ...
<JaneW> ogra: good luck, has been a slog huh!
<cbx33> ogra if I have a patch for one of the man pages in ltsp that I wrote how do I go about it?
<ogra> you update your bzr branch to the ltsp-mainline one, add your change, commit it and i merge it
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> thanks ogra 
<ogra> cbx33, btw, the rsyncer script on my people account is updated for edgy
<cbx33> :D
<ogra> i should probably add a --release switch
<cbx33> oooh good idea
<cbx33> once you're all done with that let me know and I'll fit grasynco to it
<RichEd> quick confirm question please: can multiple boots (Ubuntu & Edubuntu) all safely share the same swap volume ? will they each just mount & use swap at startup without intefereing with each others files (I presume temp swap files are cleared at shutdown) ?
<RichEd> sorry partition not volume :P
<rodarvus> RichEd: yes, they can
<rodarvus> and they should, in fact :)
<rodarvus> a swap partition (and also a swap file, for that matter) is basically a continued part of the ram memory - in other words, completely volatile between reboots
<RichEd> rodarvus: hi ... thanks ... just confirming that my understanding translates across worlds :)
<rodarvus> it sure does :)
<RichEd> you'll be glad to know my Edubuntu is up & running ... minor glitches (display went blank 60% of the way through software install phase) prolly due to unusual external monitor ...
<RichEd> at 1:00 am I thought it was a hang ... but with more patience in daylight ... i waited for it to get through to completion
<RichEd> now trying to add Ubuntu boot (converting dual-boot XP - Edubuntu to tri-boot)
<rodarvus> nice, good to know :)
<rodarvus> you'll probably have to manually change stuff on the boot loader to handle ubuntu + edubuntu together
<rodarvus> as both of them will want to "have control" over the MBR
<RichEd> interesting - booted into Ubuntu CD to access GParted and linux-swap partition now has a lock ion ... didn't see this last night on first run of GParted ... is Ubuntu now taking advantage of the partition it did not have before ?
<RichEd> rodarvus: noted boot loader comments ... will keep this MS xchat session open for necessary words of wisdom :)
<rodarvus> yes, it is already using the swap partition
<rodarvus> but you can order the installer to stop using the swap partition, if necessary (just click with right button on it, I think)
<RichEd> no need is there ? was just a query from me ... don't see any problems ...
* RichEd says "ooooh I like the sexy Ubuntu graphic install interface ... sweeter than Edubuntu ASCII" 
<ogra> RichEd, we cant put ltsp n the liveCD, else we'd have switched too
<ogra> *on
<RichEd> not knocking anything ... just impressed that's all :)
<ogra> also the gui installer needs *at least* 256MB
<rodarvus> how much our text based install needs?
<rodarvus> 256 is a *lot* of space, I didn't knew it needed all that much
<ogra> i think 96MB 
<RichEd> quick question for my interest: when I built my partition table last night, there are a few unallocated MBs ... is this just disk space on the border of partitions that is unable to be allocated due to cluster / partition size ?
<ogra> but i'm not sure ... might even be smaller
<RichEd> (2 unallocated areas = 1.96MB and 5.26MB)
<rodarvus> RichEd: on the end of the disk, you mean?
<rodarvus> some times (very little) unallocated space remains on the end of the disk
<rodarvus> but I never saw unallocated space between partitions
<rodarvus> RichEd: I'm just guessing, but if this is the case, it might be a bug in the partitioner (did you created the partitions using the Ubuntu graphical installer?)
<RichEd> yes ...
<RichEd> spaces are in the middle - i have 3 primaries (ntfs - swap - ext3 = Edubuntu) and 1 extended
<rodarvus> (again, just guessing) Kamion mentioned the current partitioning tool of the graphical installer is not as reliable as it could be - he is rewriting it from scratch (?) I think
<RichEd> extended contains unallocated 1 + ext3 for Ubuntu + unallocated 2 + ext3 for Kubuntu + fat32 
<RichEd> note that i've seen NTFS partitioners in Windows Server that leave bits of space unallocated ...
<rodarvus> here -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/AdvancedPartitionerRewrite
<RichEd> always thought it was irrational divides between selected partition size & cluster size
<RichEd> wasted space is small ... not too concerned ...
<RichEd> note that unallocated space (7.1 MB) is less than windows XP took for my trackpad drivers (8.9 MB) !
<rodarvus> heh
<rodarvus> (just for reference) linux trackpad driver (xserver-xorg-input-synaptics) is has 44kb
<RichEd> :) that's more like it
<rodarvus> drop the "is" pleae
<rodarvus> please
<ogra> gah, fakechroot is a pita
<rodarvus> ogra: just curious - why do you need fakechroot?
<rodarvus> (just curious)
<RichEd> rodarvus: drop the what ? i'm confused
<ogra> rodarvus, for the daily ltsp tarballs we want to build from LP fr the ltsp.org guys
<rodarvus> RichEd: the "is" from my last sentence
<rodarvus> "is has 44kb"
<ogra> elmo doesnt want to give me rot access for the ltsp-build-client script
<ogra> *root
<RichEd> oh ? i read past stuff like that ... autofilter ...
<ogra> which otherwise is needed to create the client chroot ...
<rodarvus> oh
<RichEd> another partition question - when the partitions soace is allocated, a chunk shows immediately as used  ... is that partition format & allocation info ?
<RichEd> space <- soace
<ogra> but i just noticed that if i run ltsp-build-client in a fakechroot environment, it cant mount proc
<rodarvus> ogra: I suppose elmo has a very good reason to force you using fakechroot, then :D
<ogra> rodarvus, i cant really agree with him ...
<rodarvus> ogra: I'm being cynical ;)
<rodarvus> I don't agree, either
<ogra> giving my script the opportunity to run ltsp-build-client through sudo would be way easier... 
<ogra> the chroot gets wiped directly after atrrig it anyway
<ogra> *tarring
<rodarvus> RichEd: sorry, I don't remember from the top of my head how the ubuntu partitioner works in this regard :/
<ogra> i'll have to discuss that with him, i dont think fakechroot is the way to go
<rodarvus> ogra: can't ltsp-build-client be audited by someone else (such as pitti) if elmo doesn't seems comfortable giving you sudo on this machine?
<rodarvus> its really insane forcing you to lose hours of work mucking with fakechroot just for that.
<RichEd> okay ... not serious ... will browse to look later ...
<ogra> rodarvus, the point is that it builds a chroot
<ogra> elmo doesnt want that at all
<rodarvus> ogra: if he doesn't wants that on a "production" machine, then we might need to ask for another machine.
<ogra> multiple other machines then :/
<ogra> i need one for every arch
<ogra> (only i386 and ppc now, but amd64 will surely follow)
<rodarvus> hmm, yeah, it doesn't scales
<ogra> i'll do the i386 variant loacally for now ...
<ogra> and copy the tarball to the DC in the end ...
<ogra> but that cant be the final solution
<rodarvus> indeed
<rodarvus> ogra: any chance for jim and scott to let you build this on one of their ltsp.org servers?
<RichEd> allocating my Ubuntu partition info now = mount point / ... what do i select for existing Edubuntu partition ... obviously i leave reformat unchecked but do i select a mount point say /media/hda3 or should i unselect the partition totally from any actions and rather manually edit mount points when i am done
<RichEd> done with the install i mean 
<ogra> rodarvus, sure, but the target is to have that in LP, mark wouldnt be happy if it ran o their servers
<RichEd> brb -> coffee
<ogra> *on
<rodarvus> RichEd: usually, /media/<somename>, such as /media/edubuntu
<rodarvus> ogra: then bring the issue to Mark
<rodarvus> or to our new fearless leader
<RichEd> okay ... makes sense now :)
* rodarvus winks to RichEd
* RichEd ducks to avoid any labels
<ogra> hehe
<rodarvus> :)
<ogra> rodarvus, dont worry, i'll manage ...
<rodarvus> ogra: well, really up to you
<rodarvus> I sense problems in the future, with the current approach
<rodarvus> how are you going to mount /proc, create devices, etc?
<ogra> ??
<ogra> if i run ltsp-build-client as root that all works fine ...
<rodarvus> yes
<ogra> you cant just run it unprivileged
<rodarvus> exactly
<ogra> and fakechroot is surely not ready for use at all
<rodarvus> now I'm confused :)
<ogra> so i wont even put more time into it ;)
<rodarvus> didn' you just said elmo is not going to give you root?
<ogra> but run it locally for now and ask elmo for another offer ;)
<rodarvus> and that you were planning to use fakechroot?
<rodarvus> this is exactly my point - you *need* to run this script as root, and it needs to be done in DC infrastructure
<ogra> well, he needs to make it possible, its his job ;) i can only change the code if needed, but he has to give me the requirements ...
<rodarvus> so sooner or later, we'll need to bring this to Mark, mdz or RichEd
<ogra> yes, but its *his* DC 
<ogra> s he has to make me an offer :)
<ogra> *so
<ogra> i'll discuss it with him. dont worry
<rodarvus> ok
<rodarvus> lets wait :)
<ogra>  have to do enough other stuff on that script anyway )
<RichEd> so just to confirm my understanding again ... a partition is just a space allocated on a disk, and it is given a working name on boot up by mounting it "against" a named folder in the file system so that it can be accessed ?
<ogra> :)
<ogra> yes
<RichEd> ta
<rodarvus> well,
* rodarvus gets back to X 7.1
<rodarvus> ogra: btw, do we have any automatic means of checking for updates on debian packages?
<rodarvus> maybe some LP page where I can subscribe to updates of debian packages
* rodarvus daydreams
<jsgotangco> err?
* cbx33 pokes rodarvus 
<ogra> rodarvus, mom has ... but i dont know of any further feature like that 
<rodarvus> ogra: but mom won't run for another four months, right?
<ogra> rodarvus, NMSP will bring us al that ... you will only have to suscribe to the bzr branch then :)
<rodarvus> ogra: indeed :)
<cbx33> nice
<RichEd> this is much more logical - being able to edit & manipulate reality - rather than giving a MS GUI a once off request and then waiting for it to do it's secret black magic
<jsgotangco> RichEd: huh?
<cbx33> RichEd: ahhh....another one sees the light :p
<cbx33> I wish everyone here would
<jsgotangco> here?
<cbx33> no....at work
<RichEd> w.r.t my questions about mounting & "naming" volumes rather than windows permanent drive letter allocations etc.
<jsgotangco> they are just abstractions
<jsgotangco> even macosx uses them
<RichEd> i know windows must do a similar thing, but it's all writen away as smily faces and control characters that do not like being messed with
* ogra wonders if he couldnt abuse the buildds for the daily tarball stuff ...
<cbx33> indeed
<jsgotangco> ogra: is this (today's) build safe?
* jsgotangco starts burning
<ogra> jsgotangco, no idea, i'm still downloading ... :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<ogra> you'll surely know before me 
<jsgotangco> gahh
* jsgotangco is a bit lazy to go downstairs and trash the desktop
<rodarvus> jsgotangco: is Filipines far from Indonesia? (sorry for my weak knowledge of asian geography :/)
<jsgotangco> not really
<rodarvus> I've just read about a Tsunami on Indonesia
<jsgotangco> jakarta is around 2 1/2 hours by plane
<rodarvus> hope all is fine there!
<jsgotangco> we have a volcano about to explode here
<jsgotangco> so the quake in indonesia must be related
<rodarvus> *nods*
<jsgotangco> this region is not called the ring of fire for nothing heh
<RichEd> better than being shelled by flying exploding things ... like some other people today :(
<cbx33> true
<jsgotangco> yeah its just not right demolishing a neighbor's house to destroy some rats
<RichEd> not prepared to take sides or anything ... but nature is an unavoidable ... the human thing should be something we can work out with less aggression ... UBujtu and all that
<RichEd> Ubuntu P
<rodarvus> I was already wondering if Ubujtu was yet another african word with big translation :D
<jsgotangco> my hometown is infested with insurgents i know the feeling of bullets going above your roof
<cbx33> jsgotangco: eeek
<cbx33> that bad?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: i grew up with an M16 in our house for security reasons
<cbx33> crikey
<jsgotangco> we never got to use it though, luckily
<jsgotangco> my wife doesn't like going to my hometown
<jsgotangco> but i just walk there like its the park =)
<cbx33> I'll bet
<jsgotangco> its not like people are shooting each other most of the time
<jsgotangco> the last violence i ever seen there was an assassination in front of our church
<cbx33> yikes
<RichEd> should i be concerned ? ubuntu install can't remember being asked if i wanted server or workstation 
<spacey> jsgotangco: religious reasons?
<ogra> there is no such option in ubuntu
<RichEd> and now at 88% it said target disk nearly full ... target disk 100% full .... it is a 2GB partition
<jsgotangco> spacey: nope maoist seperatists
<RichEd> ogra: i thought there was sever / workstation option ? last week you recommended that i did *not* install server
<ogra> RichEd, in edubuntu, yes :)
<ogra> but not in ubuntu
<iGotNoTime> morning everyone :D
<RichEd> okay ... any reason why it is filling the (recommended) 2GB ... and will it cause a problem ?
<ogra> very likely ...
<iGotNoTime> because it is a user rich experience :D:D
<ogra> it wont install all packages if it runs out of space
<RichEd> i've checked the CD sleeve and it says 2.1 GB ... will make more space and try again.
<iGotNoTime> I 'just now' upgraded to Dapper does anyone have a link for instructions on installing the firefox flash player plugin ?
<bimberi> !flash
<ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats  -  See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html  -  But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<bimberi> iGotNoTime: ^^^^ (the first link)
<bimberi> RichEd: er ... um ... so, been watching the Tour de France?  ;)
* RichEd tries to avoid any eye contact ...
<RichEd> errrrr uhmmmmmm well Nelson Mandela is great
<bimberi> lol
<RichEd> RichEd -> out 1 hour ... lunch collection
<iGotNoTime> bimberi: thank you
<bimberi> iGotNoTime: yw :)
<iGotNoTime> I have a dedicated MS server and need remote desktop access, I didn't think of that before switching to Linux, does anyone have a suggestion?
<bimberi> iGotNoTime: VNC
<rodarvus> iGotNoTime: please ask non-edubuntu related questions on #ubuntu (but answering to your question - there is a remote desktop client for linux called 'rdesktop', you can use it)
<iGotNoTime> sorry will make sure it doesn't happen again
<iGotNoTime> I do run Edu though ;)
<rodarvus> :)
<bimberi> iGotNoTime: btw the rdesktop client comes installed.  You can access it via Applications -> Internet -> Terminal Server Client
<iGotNoTime> yes just found it :)
<iGotNoTime> well using gnome desktop
* RichEd is back & sets about making some more partition space for Ubuntu
<dad> is it necessary to use the edubuntu server
<dad> or can I just install ltsp and remove the pre-installed servers
<ogra> edubuntu server *is* essentially ltsp ...
<ogra> what preinstalled servers do you mean ? 
<dad> because  ltspconfig command does not work
<ogra> there is only the schooltool calendar server apart from ltsp 
<ogra> never ever use ltspconfig in edubuntu !
<ogra> nor install the ltsp-utils package from universe
<iGotNoTime> have a great day everyone and thanks again for all the help :D
<ogra> there is a reason that its in universe
<ogra> (its incompatible with ubuntu ltsp and breaks everything)
<dad> then how can I configure this
<ogra> what do you want to configure and what doesnt work ? 
<dad> ltsp server
<ogra> and did you already execute ltspadmin on that machine (which surely broke the install then)
<dad> no I did not
<ogra> whet exactly ? do you want to configure and what doesnt work ?
<dad> ltsp failed to start last time I tried
<ogra> what didnt start ? there is no such ting like ltsp you could start, its build from severeal pieces
<dad> authoritative;
<dad> subnet 192.168.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
<dad>   range 192.168.0.20 192.168.0.250;
<dad>   option domain-name "example.com";
<dad>   option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.1;
<dad>   option broadcast-address 192.168.0.255;
<dad>   option routers 192.168.0.1;
<dad>   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
<dad>   filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<dad>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<dad> }
<ogra> please use a pastebin
<ogra> so what didnt start ? your dhcp server ?
<ogra> or the nfs server ? or inetd/tftfp ?
<dad> let me refresh my mind , can you tell me the command for starting the dhcp.
<ogra> you need to give an exact error description, else nobody will be able to help :)
<ogra> sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start
<dad> I don't know. I just installed edbuntu
<ogra> but you said something didnt start ...
<ogra> since we have no such service like "ltsp" it must be soemthing else, what was it ? 
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> dad! i didn't expect you to be here!
* jsgotangco sorry i had to say that
* jsgotangco goes back to work
<dad> I think it was DHCP.
<ogra> dad, did you follow the install instructions (see channel topic) ?
<RichEd> jsgotanco: earthquake/tsunami update: 20 fatalities reported
<dad> I just want to test this the edbuntu server-thin client communication
<Petaris> ogra: After the initial install you should be able to just boot a client correct?
<ogra> Petaris, nope
<ogra> Petaris, unless you picked 192.168.0.1 as your ip
<dad> I am using etherboot floppy, should I change this line in "/ltsp/pxelinux.0
<ogra> else you need to do the things from the gettingstarted doc
<dad> since I am not using pxe
<Petaris> ogra: its a dual nic box (triple actually) eth0 is a static 172.20. address that connects to my network and eth1 is a static 192.168.0.1 that connects to the clients
<ogra> Petaris, then it works out of the box
<ogra> dad, etherboot from rom-o-matic ? 
<dad> yes
<ogra> they have a PXE emulation mode
<ogra> use that and it should work fine
<Petaris> hrm, I'll go through the getting started doc again but it (the client) doesn't seem to even see the dhcp server
<Petaris> I've confirmed its running though
<dad> so I don't need to any changes in the dhscpconf
<ogra> make sure there is no other dhcp server in that network
<ogra> dad, if you have a static interface with 192.168.0.1 as ip you dont
<Petaris> ogra: no other dhcps on the client side
<dad> No I am using the dhcp mode not static, since I Use the same card for internet
<ogra> dad, the interface a dhcp server runs on *must* be static
* ogra is afk for 30min or so
<Petaris> ogra: nevermind, user error
<dad> so i need to buy another card
<Petaris> I had the clients plugged into the wrong nic (into the third nic which is unused)
<Petaris> ogra: Just one of those "Bang head on keyboard to continue.." days
<Petaris> haha
<dad> Do I need another card??
<Petaris> dad: no
<Petaris> you just need to set a static address
<dad> then what?
<Petaris> unless I've missed something
<Petaris> dad: What is your network setup?
<Petaris> server with two nics?
<Petaris> one to ltsp the other to the rest of the network?
<Petaris> or single nic?
<dad> How can I connect to both internet and the the intranet at the same time, since When I choose static ip I cnnot conect to internet
<dad> single nic
<rodarvus> RichEd: do you plan to attend (at least for for one or two days) the developers sprint, next month?
<Petaris> dad: is there a cable modem or the like on your network?
<rodarvus> it would be a great chance for me and ogra to meet you there
<rodarvus> RichEd -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSprintWiesbaden
<RichEd> haven't been asked yet ... but would make sense ... where issit ?
<rodarvus> in Wiesbaden, Germany
<dad> dsl
<Petaris> dad: its running a dhcp server I bet
<RichEd> will SABDFL be attedning ?
<Petaris> and its address is probably 192.168.0.1
<rodarvus> RichEd: its really a developers "hands on" summit, but its (probably?) the only chance we'll have to talk in person, before december, january or so
<rodarvus> RichEd: no idea :/
<Petaris> thats where your issue is coming from
<rodarvus> RichEd: probably clan or silbs will be able to tell you if he plans to be there
<dad> Petraris: that's right
<RichEd> it makes sense to me: i have to meet Mark in London ... and need to show him a strategy plan (for increasing adoption) ... so it may make sense to come to meet you in Germany, have an sidebar strategy chat & review, and then hop over to London
<Petaris> dad: So choose an address in that range for the server, like 192.168.0.254
<RichEd> after all if i need to fly from ZA to UK ... germany is a hop, skip & a jump by comparison 
<ogra> dad, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPBootingClientsWithoutPxe
<Petaris> then set your server dhcp range to something like 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.254
<rodarvus> RichEd: that would be great
<ogra> to get PXE emulation in etherboot floppies
<RichEd> Clan is working on the diary dates ... will ask her to factor in some time ... even if it is an afternoon-to-evening-meeting & sleep & jump over
<Petaris> dad: or set two IP addresses on that nic
<Petaris> dad: ie, eth0 = 192.168.0.254 eth0:1 = 192.168.1.1
<Petaris> with a dhcp range of 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.254
<ogra> rodarvus, well, i think RichEd would rather be bored watching a crowd of hackers hacking silently ... i dont think it makes sense for him to be all the time around (go see somethig of wiesbaden RichEd ;) )
<RichEd> too late for the footie !
<dad> authoritative;
<dad> subnet 192.168.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
<dad>   range 192.168.0.20 192.168.0.250;
<dad>   option domain-name "example.com";
<dad>   option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.254;
<dad>   option broadcast-address 192.168.0.255;
<dad>   option routers 192.168.0.254;
<dad>   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
<dad>   filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<dad>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<dad> }
<ogra> rodarvus, the sprint is actually 99% hacking in silence ...
<dad> you mean like this
<rodarvus> ogra: yeah, I agree - my point is - it would be great for us to get in touch with RichEd
<ogra> dad, please use a partebot servcie for pastes longer than 5 lines
<Petaris> dad: please use a paste service for that
<rodarvus> (as he said, for a few hours, possibly)
<RichEd> not much different than my office (are you allowed to have the radio on ?)
<ogra> rodarvus, absolutely
<Petaris> like http://phpfi.com/
<ogra> *pastebot
<ogra> RichEd, haha
<rodarvus> RichEd: earphones ;)
<RichEd> even a chat over dinner would help ... very much talking about how to get humans chosing the s/w ... will be a break from getting devices to communicate ...
<rodarvus> Generalkonsulat der Bundesrepublik Deutschland -> /me checking if needs visa to enter germany :D
<RichEd> drinks would help with former ... not the latter :)
<RichEd> will check out link & suggest a plan to you guys ... then on to Clan for approval by Silbs ...
<Petaris> dad: http://phpfi.com/132319
<rodarvus> no, I don't need a visa - good
<Petaris> rodarvus: If not visa then use MasterCard  ;p
<dad> would that be the config file the eth0:1 ?
<rodarvus> :)
<Petaris> dad: that would be the dhcp config
<dad> yes 
<dad> I mean for tha alias?
<Petaris> with eth0:1 set to 192.168.1.1
<dad> Ok
<RichEd> [ sprint will take place from 09.00 Monday 21st - 17.30 Friday 25th August 2006 ]  p'raps meet for dinner Sunday evening - because then i could book my flight from Cape Town to London via  Frankfurt & just break the conection for 24 hours
<Petaris> dad: I am fairly certain this shoule work
<Petaris> er, should
<dad> where do I add this alias card? network tools? or device manager?
<Petaris> dad: /etc/network/interfaces
<rodarvus> RichEd: we usually (afaik) have a "welcome dinner" on sunday evening, so that could be good timing for you to show up
<dad> could you take me through the process of commnads or link me a page that explains it.
<Petaris> sec
<RichEd> okay will investig8
<Petaris> dad: login as root
<Petaris> or sudo this command
<Petaris> sudo nano -w /etc/network/interfaces
<dad> ok
<Petaris> then use this format
<Petaris> http://phpfi.com/132322
<Petaris> jsut change the address to match your needs
<Petaris> you only need eth0 and eth0:1
<Petaris> I use a few more ;)
<dad> http://phpfi.com/132323
<dad> this is my setting for eth0
<Petaris> You can't use dhcp
<Petaris> you have to use static
<Petaris> sec
<dad> so the only think that changes is the ip address, the rest is the same, right?
<Petaris> no, sec
<Petaris> http://phpfi.com/132324
<Petaris> that should work for you
<Petaris> if you have the ability I would login to your dsl router and exclude the 192.168.0.254 address from its dhcp range
<Petaris> you don't have to, but it might be a good idea
<dad> DHCP Range:  	 	192.168.1.33 - 192.168.1.250
<dad> that's my range
<Petaris> on your dsl router?
<Petaris> or in your dhcpd.conf file?
<dad> dsl router
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> so you currently have a 192.168.1.* address
<Petaris> what does ifconfig say?
<Petaris> er, ifconfig eth0
<RichEd> rodarvus: will look at trying to get there for a few hours & discuss tomorrow ... flights in Lufthansa look good on special offer on front page put when you ask for anything, they double in price
<RichEd> but <- put
<dad> http://phpfi.com/132326
<Petaris> Hi highvoltage
<Petaris> dad: ok, just a sec
<Petaris> we need to adjust a few things
<RichEd> hi highvoltage: how's dodge city ?
<Petaris> dad: that is a pretty screwy setup for the dsl box to come with, has this been modified before?
<dad> no
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi Petaris and RichEd :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: i'm staying in a nice guest house here, the CSIR buildings are also quite nice
<RichEd> pretoria ?
<highvoltage> yep
<rodarvus> highvoltage: hello!
<highvoltage> hello rodarvus!
<highvoltage> rodarvus: how are things your side?
<RichEd> my in-laws live around there Menlyn (... my base when i am up in Johannesburg ) JaneW's dad
<rodarvus> all fine :)
<Petaris> dad: is there anything (that you know of) in the 192.168.0. range?
<highvoltage> I went to Menlyn mall yesterday. also very nice.
<dad> I just two computers in my house. And I have not set up any networking 
<Petaris> hrm
<dad> I am just testing this system, here
<Petaris> then we can assume that the 192.168.0 range is open and can be used
<Petaris> dad: What is your gateway currently set to?
<Petaris> 192.168.1.1?
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage and rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hi LaserJock!
<jsgotangco> hey
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
* RichEd needs to go play family man ... see y'all tamarra
<jsgotangco> bah
<jsgotangco> ubuntu 24/7
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I think I got the smack down last night
<jsgotangco> oh?
<LaserJock> I'm guessing I won't be on here on weekends from now on ;-)
<jsgotangco> haha
<dad> 192.168.0.1
<RichEd> well i might be back to ask how to fix my tri-boot ... 
<LaserJock> something about volunteering for Ubuntu ~40 hrs a week doesn't really appeal to my wife
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> dad: thats odd
<LaserJock> RichEd: oh heah, you're Mr. JaneW?
<RichEd> errr no, she's Mrs RichEd ;)
<Petaris> dad: try this http://phpfi.com/132330
<Petaris> but you will have to change your dhcp.conf file a little
<LaserJock> RichEd: hehe, sure
<dad> that gateway info was from the netstat routing table
<dad> http://phpfi.com/132331
<LaserJock> RichEd: nice to see you here, welcome aboard
<dad> here is the detailed info  from the router interface
* RichEd goes domestic ... later :)
<RichEd_out_now> thanks LaserJock  ... yes i am really going now :)
<Petaris> dad: thats for the routers external interface, do you have the info for the internal interface?
<dad> I see
<dad> Anyhow the info from the netstat from networl tools, is that valid?
<dad> I went to administration then network tools then netstat
<dad> it says:  destination URL 0.0.0.0 and then gateway 192.168.0.1
<Petaris> dad: ok
<Petaris> dad: try making those changes I suggested then we need to change the dhcp.conf file
<dad> what changes to dhcp.conf file? did you already give me that?
<Petaris> no, we need to make some changes, post it so I can see what you have
<dad> you have gateway 192.168.1.1 in that last post 
<dad> should that be changed to 192.168.0.1
<dad> http://phpfi.com/132330 this post
<Petaris> dad: yes, it should be changed to 192.168.0.1
<dad> http://phpfi.com/132340
<Petaris> dad: looks good
<Petaris> now lets make the changes to dhcpd.conf, post your config as it is now
<Petaris> from /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<dad> ok
<dad> http://phpfi.com/132343 like this?
<Petaris> dad: http://phpfi.com/132344
<Petaris> try that
<dad> I don't see eth0:1 in my device list in the network tools!
<Petaris> dad: did you restart your network and dhcp services?
<dad> I did this command sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start
<dad> I did not get any replies whether it did actually start!
<Petaris> you would want restart not start
<Petaris> you also want /etc/init.d/networking restart
<ogra> heh ...
<ogra> juliux is nagging for money :)
<cbx33> ogra, I'm almost there on the gisomount pacakge
<jsgotangco> ciao guys
<jsgotangco> later
<juliux> ogra, not me ;)
<ogra> well, the kassenwart in you :)
<cbx33> ping ogra 
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<cbx33> ogra, gisomount is ready to go
<cbx33> LaserJock, just advocated it
<cbx33> bbl
<Petaris> ogra: Who was it that was working on AD integration?
<ogra> ajmitch
<Petaris> ok, thanks
<Petaris> Do you know if he has had much luck?
<Burgwork> Petaris, he is a smart and dedicated person, so I don't doubt he is making good progress
<Petaris> Burgwork: Ok, you know if hes documenting his progress somewhere?
<Burgwork> he should be. Ping hin
<Burgwork> him, rather
<Petaris> ajmitch: ping
<Burgwork> Petaris, I don't he is in here. But he is #ubuntu-devel
<Petaris> Burgwork: Ahh, ok
<Petaris> I'll pop over there
<LaserJock> ohh, Wiesbaden
<LaserJock> that would be fun
<LaserJock> is that far from you ogra?
<ogra> 250km
<ogra> or 300, not sure
<rodarvus> this summit in gemany must be very un-cool for ogra and the rest of the germans on canonical :)
<ogra> its less travelling
<LaserJock> I'm sure even the Germans love other parts of Germany ;-)
<ogra> but i was just considering to go to san francisco the week before 
<rodarvus> well, uds paris was not that far for you, too
<ogra> to visit linuxworld
<LaserJock> ogra: really?
<ogra> well, i wont i guess
<LaserJock> :(
<ogra> i need to have some time at home ...
<LaserJock> sure
<ogra> and my move will only be done by aug 1st
<LaserJock> but that would only be a 4 hr drive for me
<rodarvus> san francisco would be a, hmm... very long drive for me :)
<rodarvus> (I guess at least about 4 weeks)
<LaserJock> hehe
<rodarvus> (after calculating) 2.5-4 weeks, non-stop
<rodarvus> 2.5-3
<rodarvus> but you have to add a few days if you plan to sleep :)
<ogra> 2.5-3 is -0.5, isnt it ? 
<ogra> that means you gain half a week by going to sf :)
<rodarvus> haha
<rodarvus> timewarp!
<ogra> yeah
<Amaranth> *sigh*
<Amaranth> Google is starting to seriously piss me off.
<ogra> Amaranth, ?
<Amaranth> I still haven't gotten the first payment.
<ogra> they mailed about starting to send out the money one or two weeks ago
<Amaranth> They said something was wrong if people didn't have it by July 5th.
<ogra> did you ping them ? 
<Amaranth> I've now got $700 charged onto the credit card attached to my bank account because of things going through my empty account.
<Amaranth> Yeah, 3 times.
<Amaranth> No update.
<Amaranth> Nothing you can do, this is just me venting.
<LaserJock> ogra: is pessulus older than sabayon?
<ogra> i dont think so
<LaserJock> hmm
<Burgwork> LaserJock, no, newer
<LaserJock> k, that's what I thought, but pessulus seems to have more activity so I wondered
<Burgwork> sabayon was started as a project within rh and then basically got dropped
<ogra> vuntz is a bored guy :P
<Burgwork> likely due to seth being reassigned
<Burgwork> pessulus was pure vuntz, who was bored
<LaserJock> hmm :/
<Burgwork> however, vuntz just got a comaintainer for pessulus
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how it's going to work if a student is assigned to more than one group
<LaserJock> seems like you would have to merge/overlay the profiles
<Burgwork> hmm, tricky
<LaserJock> seems like sabayon's code hasn't been touched (with the exception of an Xnest thing) in 8 months
<Burgwork> that is likely true
<Burgwork> I suspect seth was moved elsewhere by rh
<LaserJock> Alexander Larsson seems to be doing most of the latest work
<Burgwork> I think he got assigned after, but he also does some other stuff with gnome at rh
<rodarvus> isn't Seth an interaction designer? (UI architect, etc - whatever be the name you want to give it :) )
<Burgwork> yes, he is
<ogra> yrp
<ogra> err
<ogra> yep
<ogra> and he holds wonderful talks ;)
<Burgwork> hence why sabayon has a completely innovative UI, not a rehash of kiosktools
<rodarvus> so, I don't think he wrote Sabayon himself - he probably designed the way it would work, though
<rodarvus> *nods*
* ogra remembers the talk where seth explained usability by using a condom as example on stage 
<rodarvus> heh
<LaserJock> so now I go back to wonder, would it be better to ship .menu files, extend alacarte to use for editing, and write a small tool that puts the selected menus in the user's ~/
<Burgwork> you would still have conflicts
<LaserJock> yes, but .menu conflicts would be easier than to teach sabayon conflicts
<Burgwork> better to extend sabayon to understand modular profiles
<LaserJock> the problem with sabayon would be  you would have confilcts on lots of stuff, not just menus
<Amaranth> Here is my idea: Set XDG_DATA_DIRS based on the user's group. Alacarte (at least 0.9) should edit that menu instead of the root menu.
<Amaranth> The only problem with that is that you have to create the .menu files when you create a new group.
<Amaranth> (and of course I'd have to add root menu editing back into alacarte)
<LaserJock> Burgwork: what do you mean by modular profiles?
<Burgwork> breaking out menu, etc.
<LaserJock> oh, yeah
<Burgwork> a sabayon server with a webfront end would rock
<Burgwork> elminate the issue of having sabayon only useable on linux pcs
<ogra> we'll get something like that in the future :)
<LaserJock> so basically I need to: teach sabayon about groups, make it understand modular prfiles, and make sure it handles conflicts
<LaserJock> hmm, would have been handy if they left doc strings or comments
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<mhz> cbx33: hi there
<cbx33> hi mhz 
#edubuntu 2006-07-18
<jsgotangco> good morning
<LaserJock> and here too
<ogra> edgy-install-i386.iso              18-Jul-2006 00:37  690M
<ogra> hey we have 10M left
<crimsun> xulrunner!!!@
* crimsun smirks
<ogra> heh
<ogra> find someone to maintain it in main and we have a deal :)
<crimsun> :-)
<ogra> i wouldnt mind to maintain it as a package, but i would mind doing two rebuilds a month for security updates
<rodarvus> I'll take a look at xulrunner, just for the sake of it
<rodarvus> (that doesn't even means I'm going to build it, btw :) )
<jsgotangco> whoa still awake?
<crimsun> -3 is only 10 PM iirc
<rodarvus> *nods* :)
<rodarvus> exactly
<crimsun> (I'm -4)
<ogra> you and your negative timezones ...
<ogra> :)
<crimsun> at least you don't have as far to travel for the conferences ;-)
<ogra> heh, sadly, yes
<jsgotangco> ogra: did you survive your install?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> but i'm confident about the current one
<jsgotangco> i saw a .1 build should i continue installing?
<ogra> there is also already a 18
<jsgotangco> ahh i will rsync again just in case
<ogra> the .1 dies o xserver-xorg
<ogra> *on
<jsgotangco> hmm the 18 is very fresh
<jsgotangco> ahh i have 18 already it seems
<ogra> nearly 3h old :)
<ogra> gah
* ogra curses
<jsgotangco> ?
<ogra> still fails
<jsgotangco> doh
* jsgotangco skips burning
<crimsun> is it the postinst?
<ogra> something in the postinst uses $TERM ... which is set to bterm in the installer 
<ogra> hmm, actually grep returns nothing ...
<ogra> must be something the postinst calls
* ogra added a workaround to ltsp ... http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18254 has the exact errormessage in case you want to dig
<ogra> actually its totally silly that we dont have a "noconfig" debconf key for this case for xserver-xorg ... there is no reason to configure it in the chroot, copying a dummy file would be enough
<Lord_Athur> Hi all
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<RichEd> 'lo all
<jsgotangco> RichEd: hi!
<RichEd> morning jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: you got your stuff sorted out?
<highvoltage> morning everyone
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: hey jono
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: have you been affeced by the quakes?
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<jsgotangco> nope that's a far away place we rarely get quakes here but when we do, its big
<jsgotangco> we have 2 active volcanoes acting up lately so it must be related to the quake at the south
<highvoltage> wow
<highvoltage> how do they act up?
<jsgotangco> there is lava flowing at the moment
<jsgotangco> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayon_Volcano
<jsgotangco> so a major eruption is expected in a few weeks
<crimsun> sweet, we expect digital photos from jsgotangco.
<RichEd_> jsgotangco:  must be freaky & quite exciting at the same time ?
<jsgotangco> its pretty far away from my place
* jsgotangco lives in a very urban area
<jsgotangco> its actually a beautiful sight to behold ive seen it erupt before 
<jsgotangco> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taal_volcano -> i live near here
<jsgotangco> well grew up
<jsgotangco> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinatubo -> this one trashed us up real bad more than a decade ago
<axl000> anyone can help me whti  problem in dapper?
<axl000> sorry for my bad english
<jsgotangco> axl000: what's up? this edubuntu specific channel though
<axl000> hi
<axl000> when i shutdown or reboot
<axl000> my pc crash
<axl000> im using ubuntu dapper
<jsgotangco> how does it "crash"
<axl000> jus crash
<axl000> after the now the system will reboot
<jsgotangco> can you be more specific on how it crashes?
<axl000> sorry 
<axl000> id speak english to well
<axl000> just crash, the screen goes black and the system doesnt reboot
<jsgotangco> yes don't worry but we can't go further if we just say it "crashes"
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> so basically you force reboot or do a power cycle right?
<jsgotangco> (pushing the power switch/reboot button)
<axl000> yes
<axl000> i wait a little
<axl000> and im force to shutdown pressing the buton
<jsgotangco> yup i've experienced that in one of my machines before what I did was update my bios and it just went away
<axl000> mmmm
<axl000> i cant update his is the last bios
* RichEd goes to shower
<jsgotangco> sorry i wouldn't really know what causes it sometimes the system tells its not able to reboot
<axl000> i look in the ubuntu forums and a lot of people have this same problem
<axl000> cant you ask to someone ?
<axl000> i dont know people whor can help me
<jsgotangco> can you try #ubuntu
<axl000> yes. but im limited with the leguage
<jsgotangco> what language are you conversant with
<axl000> write me the exact question to ask in ubuntu please
<axl000> spanish
<jsgotangco> i think you should try asking in ubuntu-es
<jsgotangco> or to the ubuntu-es mailing list
<axl000> no one know the answer
<jsgotangco> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-es
<jsgotangco> there's an archive
<axl000> i am so frustrated
<whitty> hey everyone
<Burgundavia> hey JaneW
<whitty> so how easy is it to easy ed ubuntu as a server for thin client computers since I am working in a school and that is going to be my job in a couple of days of setting the server up with ed ubuntu
<JaneW> hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> whitty: it is very easy
<JaneW> Burgundavia, how's .CA? Warm at all this time of year?
<Burgundavia> warmish
<Burgundavia> I live in the mild part
<Burgundavia> not too cold and not too warm
<jsgotangco> whitty: you can check on this for staters http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<whitty> really Burgundavia. Yeah I seen bits and pieces of it. I was going to install it on my laptop but I decided against it until I backup all my stuff first since i am not sure what I need off of this. 
<whitty> does ed ubuntu have a live cd like knoppix
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> whitty: the livecd is a workstation instance not a server one
<Burgundavia> it is edubuntu, btw
<whitty> oh sorry
<Burgundavia> no worries
<whitty> Yeah I am going to have the PC's look like Win XP machines and the server will be edubuntu I think. I am not sure
<Burgundavia> look like?
<whitty> grrr I mean the Pcs workstations will be Win XP and the server will be edubuntu
<Burgundavia> ah
<jsgotangco> then you're not looking into a thin client solution
<Burgundavia> indeed
<jsgotangco> but rather a file/print server one
<whitty> actually i was told file/print and then a thin client also so i am not 100% sure\
<whitty> i think it is going to be thin client actually
<Burgundavia> then you don't need XP on the machines
<jsgotangco> not digging at you, but do you know how a thin client solution works?
<whitty> yes i know a thin client is a hard drive less machine that gets all it info and settings from the server
<jsgotangco> yep
<jsgotangco> in edubuntu you'll just have to fiddle a line or two after installation and it just works
<whitty> excellent sounds way easier than windows 2003 Professional
<jsgotangco> most if not all installations are successful by just looking at the Getting Started link i posted
<jsgotangco> s/looking/following
<whitty> Yea I love that page
<whitty> thanks I read the page and it looks extremely simple to set up
<whitty> thanks everyone
<whitty>  you have all been a great help
<Burgundavia> whitty: if there anything that isn't easy to setup, please tell us (via here or preferably the mailing lists) and we can work out how to make it easier
<Burgundavia> I also encourage you to get involved in development, documentation and testing. It is very much YOUR distribution, as much as it is ours
<jsgotangco> the next one will have good support for removable usb sticks
<whitty> yeah definently. Actually I am thinking of switching my laptop and my personal PC from Windows Xp to Ubuntu or some really nice Linux distro. Since Well the only thing that doesn't suck in windows is a vacum cleaner (Since you know if Microsoft would make one, it would break)
<jsgotangco> lol that's a good one
<whitty> :)
<Burgundavia> part of my past history involves an MCP and I have used Ubuntu as both a desktop and a server for about 2 years now
<Burgundavia> geez, 2 years in oct
<jsgotangco> goodness my last.fm profile is showing my fondness for silly 80s metal
<Burgundavia> does last.fm cost money?
<jsgotangco> not at all
<jsgotangco> i play tunes in rhythmbox it just updates my playing habits
<whitty> I am actually go to go down soon and get my CCNA, MCDST, A+, Server+, and one other one but I forgot what it was. 
<Burgundavia> a+ is useful
<Burgundavia> the cisco stuff will get you jobs
<jsgotangco> 1 	
<jsgotangco> Led Zeppelin
<jsgotangco> 
<jsgotangco> 88
<jsgotangco> 2 	
<jsgotangco> Manowar
<jsgotangco> 
<jsgotangco> 47
<jsgotangco> 3 	
<jsgotangco> Kiss
<jsgotangco> 
<Burgundavia> mcdst is not worth the paper it is printed on
<jsgotangco> 40
<jsgotangco> argghh
<jsgotangco> sorry
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: you be old :)
<whitty> Well i am majoring in Computer Information Systems with a focus on Tech Support, Networking, and security. I am then going to transfer to a 4 year school for my bachelors and masters in Network Administration and Network Security
<jsgotangco> its just that "I Stole Your Love" was looping for like a day when i left my PC on
<whitty> oh at the end of next quarter I should be able to get my cert in Linux+
<Burgundavia> I would do what I did: run away from the Windows world
<Burgundavia> oh, Linux+, another thing not worth the paper it is printed on
<Burgundavia> LPI is fairly good and hard
<whitty> I don't even know what Distro Linux+ uses
<Burgundavia> non
<jsgotangco> its not distro specific
<Burgundavia> certs are useful in two case: on paper and when you don't have any experience
<Burgundavia> the 2nd is questionable
<jsgotangco> i still think LPI and RHCE get good people
<jsgotangco> and RHCE can be hard
<Burgundavia> yes, becuase they are hard and people fail
<Burgundavia> a monkey could get an MCSE
<Burgundavia> s/an/a
<whitty> but I am a Linux newbie. Stuck in the windows world
<jsgotangco> i actually won an exam voucher for RHCE but didn't take it because its really hard
<Burgundavia> certs are not going to help
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: you should have done it, just for laughs
<whitty> Windows = Gateway to be spyed on
<Burgundavia> another thing to remember: we are building a better os, not slagging MS
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: yeah a peer of mine took the exam but didnt pass RHCE but got RHCT but that is like the cert for people who failed RHCE ;)
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> anyway, I have to sleep
<RichEd> jsgotangco: do we have anything like "a list of Edubuntu certified machines" where we guarantee Edubuntu will install & run 1st time ?
<jsgotangco> RichEd: we can only pray but most installs do work fine and if ubuntu works on it, so should edubuntu
<jsgotangco> RichEd: the laptop testing team is probably our only empirical data that we have in terms of compatibility others are dependent on the hwdb client if ran
<RichEd> yes, am aware that most are good, but thinking now with my hat: "would like to try linux but am a nervous human being"
<jsgotangco> heh chances are if it doesn't work on the live session it won't run on install
<RichEd> where say: if you have h/w or get h/w from this list ... it will work for you without having to learn any geekspeak
<RichEd> ( and i mean that in the nicest way ;)
<jsgotangco> most issues lie on the display adapters most of the time
<RichEd> i'm just borrow concepts from our opposition ... you know their lists of certified machines
<jsgotangco> i still have hardware that doesn't work on some areas but pretty much usable
<RichEd> so if daddy somewhere (who is addicted to MS in work environment due to history & existing application constraints) is about to buy a notebook / desktop for junior, we can say: select something off this list and non problemo ...
<RichEd> you too can become a linux user ...
<RichEd> and free the next generation from the shackles of commercial operating bloatware
<jsgotangco> im not sure about desktops they are too diverse compared to the compact and mostly standard configs of notebooks
<jsgotangco> with notebooks its easy to capture a subset of the market since we currently have some sponsored machines out there
<RichEd> some sponsored machines out there <- just a personal observations that the average PC user 
<RichEd> ahh * ignore last input ***
<jsgotangco> we don't have a definitive hardware compatibility list
<RichEd> we currently have some sponsored machines out there <- right this is what I am asking for where do I see or find this sort of thing
<jsgotangco> we *do* have data since hoary or warty but not massaged
<RichEd> we don't have a definitive hardware compatibility list <- by no means am i saying that we want to cover every machine, but a list of: if you are buying new and are unsure, start with one of these
<jsgotangco> RichEd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam -> focus on "canonical supplied"
<RichEd> tx.
<RichEd> this stems from  my personal observations, that the average "human being" that I know who uses a PC would not be comfortable with the sort of conversations on this forum ... never mind the fact that most of them would not even know how to load an IRC client !
<jsgotangco> RichEd: im aware of the fact but I would assume that people who deploy edubuntu in a server fashion have enough knowledge to fiddle with files as I would also know they can do so on a windows server
<jsgotangco> but home users is a different use case 
<RichEd> take my brother-in-law: he uses spreadsheets, financial packages, email, sort of knows how to load a web site given an URL, but his knowledge & comfort stops there. And yet, his daughter is off to University next year, in a city away from home ... a prime candidate for a Edubuntu / Ubuntu notebook.
<cbx33> RichEd: Good morning
<JaneW> RichEd, and she would know how to IRC! :P
<cbx33> RichEd: I have a preliminary spreadsheet
<RichEd> Yes, but the person actually buying her notebook may just go for the safer option !
<jsgotangco> well the first time i met JaneW in Sydney she was using a windows laptop and people were screaming for her blood but look at her now
<cbx33> what's your preffered email addy again?
<JaneW> jsgotangco, yeah back on Windows *CRY*
<jsgotangco> ick
<JaneW> jsgotangco, but I'll be back!
<RichEd> cbx33: see window ... not looking for a mail flood just yet !
<jsgotangco> 10,000 brutal axe murders are not enough
<RichEd> just that it's easier to start someone clean on Edubuntu than to reverse a MS user.
<cbx33> RichEd: hehehe
<cbx33> I got ya pm
<crimsun> Windows isn't so bad if you run edubuntu in vmware.
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> crimsun: if a package is on REVU?
<RichEd> anyway it's just some thinking around lowering the barriers to entry ... will give up the debate here & move it into a strat plan ... tx for inout
<cbx33> actually nevermind
<RichEd> input <- inout
<RobinShepheard> hiya everybody
<jsgotangco> hey
<cbx33> sorry bout that guys
<cbx33> some numnuts had plugged a network point into a network point
<RichEd> anybody involved or going to with the post-edgy summit ?
<jsgotangco> i would if i can
<cbx33> i would if I could
<cbx33> hehe
<jsgotangco> cbx33: i think you should experience it even once
<cbx33> I'd love to
<cbx33> you gonna fund me :p
<jsgotangco> you can start begging at RichEd
<cbx33> heheh
<jsgotangco> im out see you guys later
<highvoltage> ogra: hey there
<ogra> yo
<highvoltage> can i bug you a bit?
<ogra> sure
<highvoltage> ltsp-client-setup tests if there is something in rw_dirs, and if it's empty, it sets some defaults
<highvoltage> i added to that line, but it seems that rw_dirs already exist at that point.
<ogra> you mean ltsp-build-client ?
<highvoltage> do you perhaps know where it's set?
<highvoltage> i mean ltesp-client-setup in /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup in the chroot
<highvoltage> (whithout the e in ltesp :) )
<ogra> oh, right, let me look
<ogra> highvoltage, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/ltsp-client-setup
<cbx33> hey highvoltage havn't seen you in a while
<cbx33> ogra: did you see gisomount is on the list for universe :d
<ogra> cool
<ogra> i saw the upload in the upload queue yesterday ... congrats ! 
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> now I wait :p
<RichEd> hi ogra: ping when you have a moment 
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, been away from home
<RichEd> hey hi
<highvoltage> hey Rich
<RichEd> would you been keen to join a SchoolTool online discussion nest week with Tom ?
<RichEd> next <- nest
<ogra> RichEd, pong
<highvoltage> RichEd: i would like to, although I would probably not contribute much, I don't know a lot about the schooltool project
<RichEd> highvoltage: i'll send you a background email from Tom:
<RichEd> <quote>
<RichEd> the importance of data interoperability between applications in our school immediately became apparent.  
<RichEd> <endquote>
<RichEd> i thought your experience with tuX will help our conversation ... may be able to combine req. 
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> i know of some things that schoollink has done here where schools have no bandwidth, for example, when students leave a school running schoollink, go to another school who run schoollink, they can take their schoollink data to the new school on a disk.
<highvoltage> http://edupac.co.za
<highvoltage> sorry, schoollink is at http://www.schoollink.co.za
<highvoltage> their products work well, but are horribly implemented. 
<RichEd> yep re: edupac ... know albert vj quite well ...
<RichEd> anyway see mail & comment ... when you have a moment ... i said to tom i would get back to him by next week
<rodarvus> good morning
<cbx33> mornin rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hey cbx33
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<RichEd> afternoon rodarvus
<cbx33> remember a while ago, we talk about the theming and brandying engine for ubuntu/edubuntu/all the buns, did that ever take off?
<rodarvus> hi RichEd!
<RichEd> brandying engine <- gee these linux guys take care of everything ;)
<ogra> cbx33, it was just an idea ... nobody wrote a spec for it
<cbx33> ah i thought someone was activly working on it
<ogra> and as i announced i wouldnt be the one to implement it, but would be happy to help with experience
<cbx33> it's just that it's tieing in with another idea I had
<cbx33> I'm thinking of looking into developing it
<ogra> feel free to code it :)
<ogra> but write down before what you plan to do ;)
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> i need ....damn phone
<cbx33> ogra: does the ubuntu-artwork package have everything in it that "can" be changed?
<EmxBA> hi
<ogra> no
<ogra> but the edubuntu-artwork package has all changes we make
<cbx33> I'm still thinking along the lines of the totally customisable iso creator
<ogra> ubuntu-artwork doesnt change any defaults
<cbx33> that will modify the live cd
<cbx33> and branding would be a big part of it
<ogra> you need a tool that creates a postinst file for you and copies the art in place in the package stucture
<cbx33> i see,
<cbx33> my idea was a live cd tool
<cbx33> or is that what you mean
<ogra> no
<ogra> i only mean the branding tool 
<cbx33> ah i see
<ogra> and i would make it a separate tool that creates a -artwork or an -artwork and a -default-settings package ... you can call it from a cd tool
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> then it could be used elsewhere
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> ok, I may need a bit o help with the technicals at some point
<cbx33> so basically, copy the ubuntu-artwork package, and mod the contents
<ogra> fine with me, as i said i'll happily help with the tech side ... but i wont write it :)
<ogra> no
<ogra> forget about ubuntu-artwork ... you need a package that actually does customization
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> ubuntu-artwork only uses the defaults 
<ogra> edubuntu-artwork or xubuntu-artwork are a better bet
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> of course
<cbx33>  :S
* cbx33 takes a ganders
<cbx33> I'm getting all excited now
<highvoltage> ogra: there's some interesting problems we haven't thought about for diskless fat clients, such as how to install new programs into the chroot from the gui.
<ogra> highvoltage, yes
<ogra> thats why we postponed it ... w didnt discuss it deeply ...
* highvoltage nods
<ogra> i'd like to have some functions for dist-upgrade and package install in ltsp-manager at some point
<cbx33> ogra: the boot splash images are difficult to do aren't they?
<ogra> but we'll need a commandline tool as well
<highvoltage> that would be nice
<ogra> cbx33, nope
<cbx33> oh I thought you said they were difficult to change?
<ogra> highvoltage, feel free to write: ltsp-maintenance
<highvoltage> perhaps a lynaptic for ltsp fat clients :) (joke)
<ogra> ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: at the pace i'm going now, i just might!
<rodarvus> lynaptic :D
<ogra> a server sided script that wraps ltsp commands in chroot  :)
<ogra> well, running synaptic and update manager would be a bit oversized :)
<cbx33> ogra: cool this package looks cool
<ogra> i guess the dependencys would extend the chroot by about 100MB
<highvoltage> yep. i'll ask you a bt more about that server side script later... sounds like fun.
<ogra> well in fach it should just have wrappers for: chroot $LTSPROOT apt-get {update,upgrade,dist-upgrade,remove,install}
<highvoltage> my chroot with a xubuntu-desktop installed on it is 1.3GB large.
<ogra> *afct
<ogra> ergh
<highvoltage> hmmm.. yes. good idea. (me copies and pastes this conversation)
<ogra> *fact
<ogra> probably a nifty extra would be: sources-list add <url>/ sources-list remove <url>
<highvoltage> i think ideally, for a fat client, you would have symlinks from the chroot to the main system (or perhaps the other way around) so that /usr and other directories are the same on the client and the server
<ogra> that should cover everythig you need for package maintenance
<highvoltage> that way you don't waste space, and your systems are synced software wise
<rodarvus> brb, quick reboot
<ogra> hmm i'm not sure symlinking would work ...
<ogra> not sure how NFS behaves for that
<highvoltage> since i have vmware where i can take snapshots of systems, i've been more confident to take weirder and weirder experiments :)
<highvoltage> what is also nice is the ability to emulate a server and a thin client on my laptop.
<cbx33> ogra: Just checked out the pacakge
<cbx33> I've never done that much with makefile
<cbx33> they seem pretty massive
<cbx33> what does all that do - in the artwork sense
<cbx33> there is nothing to be compiled is ther?
<ogra> dont worry about makefiles, the postinst and other debhelper scripts are what you want to look at
<ogra> the makefiles are only for make install :)
<rodarvus> ogra: what is the approval policy for edubuntu-testers?
<ogra> rodarvus, there is none ... if someone wants to help testing he's free to join :)
<rodarvus> *nods* :)
<ogra> or she fwiw
<rodarvus> I'll approve Alfredo Baeza, then
<ogra> go ahead :)
<ogra> btw there are new isos up for testing in case anyone wants to :)
<cbx33> ogra: ok cool
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20060718.1/
<ogra> live is still broken due to a breakage in the build system
* cbx33 daren't look at isos yet
<cbx33> I'm still in development mode
<rodarvus> my adsl is still not upgraded, and thus, too slow to meaningfully test intaller right now :/
<rodarvus> hopefully, by tomorrow, at most, it will be upgraded already
<cbx33> looks pretty straight forward ogra, thanks for the help
<cbx33> ogra: can i ask why the gconf files are not i nthe source?
<EmxBA> when are we going to have a meeting? did susane (hedgemage) figured it out?
<ogra> cbx33, ??
<cbx33> the gconf folder in debian
<cbx33> sets up the themes, I presume
<cbx33> I just wondered why they weren't in the source, instead of being in debian/
<ogra> well, they could be anywhere ... my lazyness i guess 
<ogra> they are covereddebian/edubuntu-artwork.install
<ogra> grmbl
<ogra> they are covered in debian/edubuntu-artwork.install
<EmxBA> anyone? have you agreed for the meeting?
<ogra> EmxBA, if there is a meeting it will be on the fridge calendar
<cbx33> sorry ogra 
<cbx33> you know I'm a little new to packaging
<EmxBA> ok, I just thought you agreed something :) ok, I'll look at the calendar
<cbx33> so ogra do you use cdbs?
<ogra> the package already used it when i copied it from ubuntu-artwork 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> that's cool
<cbx33> I just need to read up on it that's all
<cbx33> essentially all that needs doing is for the files to be copied to their correct locations and use dpkg-alternatives in the right places
<cbx33> am i right?
<ogra> no
<ogra> only where the packages use alternatives ...
<cbx33> well yes
<cbx33> you know what I meant
<ogra> well there are only three paces where alternatives are used ... and even these should go away ...
<cbx33> really?
<ogra> alternatives should be used to link to different binaries
<cbx33> are we moving away from alternatives?
<cbx33> ah i see
<ogra> not to shuffle files between packages 
<cbx33> yes I agree on that point
<ogra> but its the best system atm
<cbx33> so what happens in the case where there isn't an alternatvies in use?
<cbx33> like in usplash
<cbx33> oh sorry
<cbx33> that uses one
<cbx33> oh nevermind, I need to have a sit down and a play
<cbx33> most of it I understand
<highvoltage> heh, there's an edubuntu user that's worse than me when it comes to multiple desktops :)
<highvoltage> http://www.itiopi.com/yafsug/projectz-edubuntu-upgrade.php
<jsgotangco> meh richard is away :/
<jsgotangco> i needed to talk to him oh well
<RichEd> jsgotangco: i'm back (in arnie voice)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> i need to consult something to you edubuntu-deployment related you got time?
<RichEd> sure ... here or in pvt window ?
<jsgotangco> let's do it in pvt
<jsgotangco> since its not yet finalized
<cbx33> eI am seriously losing the will to live here
<jsgotangco> hmm? don't lose heart!
<cbx33> seriously, the smell in this office is awful
<cbx33> and they want to move us to another office
<cbx33> with no airflow
<cbx33> and no windows
<cbx33> and inadequate lighting
* cbx33 is seriously almost in tears....I am soooo frustrated here
<jsgotangco> you're in a better position at the moment compared to a school teacher in beirut
<cbx33> true
<rodarvus> cbx33: if you live in the US, you are probably in a better position than most school teachers of the planet :)
<cbx33> I'm an IT manager
<cbx33> I sit in this office all day
<cbx33> everyday
<cbx33> it is affecting my health
<jsgotangco> sideways? =)
<highvoltage> oh no. cbx33 left. just as i was about to tell him that no windows is a good thing!
<jsgotangco> haha
<Lord_Athur> I was trying to validate my OpenPGP key, the launchpad page says that I'd have to descrypt a msn with my key in order to validate, how do I do it? No one answers in other channels :(
<rodarvus> Lord_Athur: you have to sign the Code of Conduct, and upload it to the CoC page
<rodarvus> save the code of conduct to a txt file
<rodarvus> gpg --sign file.txt
<rodarvus> this will output the signed version of this file
<rodarvus> cut and paste this into the input box, on the code of conduct page
<Lord_Athur> ok thanks
<jsgotangco> rodarvus!
<rodarvus> jsgotangco!
<jsgotangco> :D
<LaserJock> highvoltage: totally, no windows is awesome
<LaserJock> when I first started grad school I went 2 weeks withought seeing natural light :-)
<LaserJock> *without
<jsgotangco> eww
* jsgotangco loves the sun
<LaserJock> bah, the sun is highly overrated ;-)
* LaserJock crawls back into his air conditioned windowless laser lab, mwuahahaha
<LaserJock> the thing is, it's supposed to be 40C today and it's just to hot to enjoy the sun
* jsgotangco enjoys the nice 25C rainy season
<LaserJock> bah, it's also 10% humidity here :/
<jsgotangco> dude don't complain about humidity because i live in a tropical place :/
<jsgotangco> hehe
<LaserJock> if only we could merge the weather source packages ;-)
<jsgotangco> Relative Humidity (%): 87,
<jsgotangco> Pressure (mB): 1010, Rising,
<RichEd> jsgotangco: check pvt window :)
<jsgotangco> hmm?
<jsgotangco> RichEd: yes?
<RichEd> done ... was talking about the last comment in the pvt
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> RichEd: ahh i got your email thanks im going to sleep now see you
<RichEd> sleep well ... no volcanos ... no big waves ...
<LaserJock> lol
<RichEd> bye all ...
<cbx33> evenin all
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<highvoltage> hi cbx33 
<highvoltage> feeling better?
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<cbx33> if by better you mean the same...then yes :p
<highvoltage> :/
<cbx33> I'm ok, just work really really getting me down
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> I'm here, it's the evening, work is in the distance...and I'm working on ubuntu
<cbx33> what could be better
<highvoltage> cbx33: the universe has a tendency to balance things out.
<cbx33> indeed
<highvoltage> cbx33: all you need is a little more patience
<cbx33> I suppose that's why I could never work for ubuntu :p
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<cbx33> you busy dude?
<ogra> cbx33, yes, a bit (obviously) :) whats up ?
<cbx33> um
<cbx33> I think I've figured out a lot with the artowrk package
<ogra> thast great
<ogra> *thats
<cbx33> I just need some help with gconf?
<cbx33> what do those files do?
<ogra> wel, thats the essential part :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> i thought perhaps it might be
<ogra> the other stuff is just copying pictures 
<cbx33> I spoke a lot with dholbach today about the artwork pacakge
<cbx33> he's thinking of splitting the pacakge up
<ogra> they are two totally different things
<cbx33> the ubuntu one
<ogra> we dont use the ubuntu one at all
<cbx33> no i know
<cbx33> well,
<cbx33> I know the files and locations for most of it now
<cbx33> I guess I just need a hand with how the gconf stuff works
<cbx33> and what I need to do after installing the files
<ogra> nothing
<ogra> you just need to install the files
<ogra> look inside the debian/gconf/{default,young,plain} files
<ogra> they are just lists with gconf keys and values
<cbx33> how does it make all those changes active to meta city etc
<ogra> in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/ there is a priority system ...
<ogra> the highest number there counts ... by default all system files have priority 10
<ogra> edubuntu uses 20
<ogra> thats all the magic we use theres
<ogra> -s
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> how difficult is it to change the usplash text colour?
<ogra> you need t be a good artist :P
<ogra> the color is pulled from the indexed image
<ogra> dont ask me which of the index colors it is
<ogra> there are some wikipages about that
<cbx33> ah right cool
<cbx33> the 20-edubutnu file is a symlink right?
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> and that sits in the edubuntu fold in usr/share
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> last question
<cbx33> about hte gtk-rc thingy
<cbx33> how does that work?
<ogra> cn you be a bit more specific ? 
<cbx33> what does it do?
<ogra> it defines the theme 
<cbx33> ah ok
<ogra> colors, gtk engine ...
<cbx33> ok i see
<ogra> its a plain xml file ... very easy to understand and change ...
<cbx33> yup i see
<cbx33> thank you for all your help ogra 
<cbx33> development begins tomorrow
<cbx33> :)
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> nn all
<cbx33> tiem for some ps2 attention :p
<highvoltage> night cbx33 
<highvoltage> cbx33: i see you asked about the usplash images, i've grown quite fond of splashy, you can find it from debian, it's much nicer than usplash
<cbx33> highvoltage, what does it do?
<ogra> cbx33, its debians fork of usplash
<ogra> sadly doesnt work with hibernate
<Burgwork> ogra, isn't splashy older than usplash?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> usplash was there long before, but not used for 1 or 2 releases ...
<ogra> then development started simultaneously on both of them ...
<ogra> (there was a usplash binary in harys universe already iirc)
<ogra> *hoarys
<cbx33> ah 
<ogra> but as i said, splashy is no option for us
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> i see there is a process on the png to turn it into bogl?
<ogra> usplash has planned enhancements (16bit color support etc)
<cbx33> nice
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> what's the .o and .c files about?
<ogra> but you dont need to care about bogl ... thats done during package build
<cbx33> yes, but I'm making my own package
<ogra> just make a png that fits and put it into place
<ogra> that wont work
<ogra> you need the usplash source package around ...
<cbx33> ok cool
<ogra> well, it would work but would be pointless
<cbx33> what's different about edubuntu-artowrk?
<ogra> nothing ? 
<cbx33> where does it get the usplash source fomr?
<ogra> libbogl-dev,
<ogra> look at the package 
<ogra> its all in there
<cbx33> ah yes i see it
<cbx33> so can i just use that as a dependency in mine?
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> i don't really understand how the package is built using the makefiles
<ogra> but make sure to use the same code to build the usplash pic
<cbx33> iwas goign to do it all with installs
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> and I know you don;t have the time to explain it all to me, which is cool, so I was going to do it in a way I understand?
<cbx33> is that ok?
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> thanks ogra 
<cbx33> then I'll only have to bug you for a few things
<ogra> i didnt do the usplash part of edubuntu-artwork so its not easy for me to comment without lookin into it ...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> nn all
<linuxgoober> I got my 2 sisters a computer 9 and 12 and am considering Edubuntu, SuSE, Kubuntu, and Mepis how does Edubuntu Compare to Ubuntu and Kubuntu
<ogra> it has a lot more stuff for children ... gcompris, some kde educational apps, tux4kids ... 
<ogra> it has also more colorful artwork included
<linuxgoober> so its the type of operating system that kids like
<ogra> thats what its aimd to ... 
<ogra> teachers and kids ...
<linuxgoober> ok...
<linuxgoober> Is it as easy to use as ubuntu? I want them to learn to do it without my help?
<ogra> if you use it at home, make sure to select the workstation install 
<linuxgoober> ok
<ogra> apart from that its the same as ubuntu it just ooks a bit different and has more apps
<ogra> *looks
<ogra> http://www.edubuntu.org/screenshots
<linuxgoober> ok sounds good... am gonna download it.. will probably dual boot it with Mepis, their current OS of choice. They really like the screen shots
#edubuntu 2006-07-19
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<Burgwork> hey jsgotangco, Lord_Athur 
<jsgotangco> hey Burgwork
<LaserJock> hi guys
<jsgotangco> how's it going
<LaserJock> I've been fighting with emacs all day :-)
<LaserJock> rather, emacs+OS X
<LaserJock> cause it worked just fine in Ubuntu
<Burgwork> LaserJock, you are mad
<LaserJock> yes I am. I wish I had an Ubuntu box at work
<jsgotangco> i thought emacs is shipped in OSX by default
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but I wanted to add some stuff to it
<jsgotangco> so what's the issue? its the same keybindings though
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<LaserJock> getting it to work right is another matter
<jsgotangco> its just a bunch of lua files to be added right?
<LaserJock> lisp
<jsgotangco> argghhh yeah lisp my bad
<LaserJock> anyway, I wanted to be able to do more stuff from CLI
<LaserJock> and emacs seemed to be able to do what I wanted
<jsgotangco> yes
<LaserJock> PIM, wiki, etc.
<jsgotangco> do you know planner mode
<LaserJock> that's what I'm trying to get to work
<jsgotangco> lol you should ask sacha the current maintainer she's very very helpful and currently use OSX
<LaserJock> in Ubuntu I just install planner-el and off I go
<jsgotangco> she's a dear friend of mine
<LaserJock> no such luck in OS X
<jsgotangco> just send her an email she'll give you tips on how to do that
<LaserJock> really? I feel like I know her well, I've been on her site all day
<LaserJock> :-)
<jsgotangco> heh she's really nice when you get to meet her personally
<LaserJock> I saw the site was .ph
<jsgotangco> yes she's a local here
<jsgotangco> but she's currntly in toronto
<jsgotangco> doing her masters
<jsgotangco> all of that website is done in emacs+emacswiki+plannermode
<Burgwork> just before I leave, I thought I would celebrate by showing a picture of beer: http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/2006/07/do_i_sense_a_fr.html
<jsgotangco> heh that's a good one
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: yeah, it's really sweet how it's wikified, that's exactly what I was looking for
<LaserJock> a CLI Tomboy ;-)
<jsgotangco> well yeah
* jsgotangco should use planner mode again
<LaserJock> the learning curve is pretty steap though
<LaserJock> I'm using a newer version that uses muse instead of emacs-wiki
<jsgotangco> well with just a few key bindings in your .emacs file you could create your own stuff
<LaserJock> I'm working on it
<LaserJock> :-)
<jsgotangco> you can sync that if you want, im sure she'll appreciate it, she's been meaning to do that for the longest time but school got in her way
<jsgotangco> although its a really *tiny* package
<jsgotangco> =)
<LaserJock> wahoo, I got it to publish it to html in my ~/public_html :-)
<LaserJock> how cool
<jsgotangco> umm yeah that's emacswiki
<jsgotangco> you can publish everyday until you have a month long journal/diary
<LaserJock> it's this new muse thing instead of emacswiki
<LaserJock> supposedly it's better
<LaserJock> I can publish to latex, xhtml, html, etc.
<LaserJock> anway, this is pretty cool
<jsgotangco> ahh
<LaserJock> hah, it can do RSS 2.0 too
<jsgotangco> hrmm how come dapper still comes with emacswiki
<LaserJock> because the muse support is pretty new
<LaserJock> fink has it I think
<LaserJock> not sure about debian
<LaserJock> I know there is a debian repo for it
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<cbx33> ping RichEd 
<cbx33> brb - breakfast
<highvoltage> aah, so that explains why my suspend doesn't work. i thouhgt it was this new laptop :)
* Yagisan waves hello
* highvoltage waves Yagisan 
<highvoltage> ogra: please wake up. i have an idea that i'm excited about that i want to talk to you about.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: how are you today ?
<highvoltage> Yagisan: thirsty, but otherwise very good
<highvoltage> also hit the snooze butten more than 5 times this morning
<highvoltage> (logt count after that)
<highvoltage> *lost
<Yagisan> highvoltage: wish I could say the same :( I've got problems with my eyes
<Yagisan> I see red spots that don't exist
<highvoltage> what's wrong?
<highvoltage> that's strange.
<highvoltage> what causes that?
<Yagisan> and the optometrist can't see anything wrong
<Yagisan> so I'm off to the specialist on wednesday, and will be relived of $147
<Yagisan> and I'm laying odds, that that won't know what's wrong either
<Yagisan> I also discovered I have 20/15 vision, and am slightly long sighted.
<Yagisan> are the joys of being a guinea pig
<highvoltage> hmmm. couldn't find anythin on google about it
<Yagisan> me either
<Yagisan> but I assure you, I see those bright red spots
<highvoltage> do they stay at the same place? or move around?
<Yagisan> they move
<highvoltage> how big are they?
<Yagisan> can be very annoying
<Yagisan> small. usually in clusters of 3
<Yagisan> ever looked close at a tv
<highvoltage> yep
<Yagisan> at the coloured dots on the screen ?
<highvoltage> yes
<Yagisan> looks somewhat like that
* highvoltage finds it tough to imagine
<highvoltage> well, my advice for any medical problem is always: drink lots of water
<highvoltage> it seems to help for everything
<Yagisan> I've had them for years, but it's increased recently. I mentioned it in passing to the optometrist and she was very concerned
<Yagisan> 1.5hrs if testing, and couldn't find a reason.
<highvoltage> and there's no records of similar conditions?
<Yagisan> not that they know of
* Yagisan is special
<cbx33> mornin all
<Yagisan> G'day cbx33. you missed the most fascinating discussion about how my eyes are stuffed
<cbx33> I thought your eyes were extremely good?
<RichEd> morning all :)
<cbx33> hey RichEd did you get the spreadshet
<RichEd> hey highvoltage ... saw this comment ... can't find background [aah, so that explains why my suspend doesn't work. i thouhgt it was this new laptop]  explain if you have a moment
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<highvoltage> hi RichEd 
<highvoltage> RichEd: i broke my suspend by using a fork of usplash that does high resolutions and other fancy stuff (like plaing video, etc)
<cbx33> yikes Yagisan 
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> it breaks suspend because new bioses and display cards are basically junk.
<cbx33> my eyes are screwed but for a totally different reason
<highvoltage> and don't work like their supposed to.
<Yagisan> cbx33: nice isn't it o_O
<highvoltage> when you use lower resolutions and colour depths, then the bios works like it should, and resets your display when you unsuspend.
<cbx33> Yagisan: not really :p
<RichEd> highvoltage: okay :) was wondering where hibernate files are kept and wanted to read more ... any advice ?
<RichEd> cbx33: yessir i sure did ... was up till past pumpkin time getting my notebook booting in Ed / Ub / Kub ... all sorted :) ... ready to dive into openoffice dos today
<crimsun> we suspend-to-disk in the primary swap.
<highvoltage> RichEd: when you hibernate, your memory is stored in your swap partition
<highvoltage> RichEd: when you suspend, it stays in RAM
<RichEd> thanks highvoltage & crimsun ... so all 3 boots will share the same hibernate disk space, will clear & tidy on shutdown & reboot ... most excellent
<RichEd> cbx33: openoffice docs not dos (doos :P)
<cbx33> does that mean you can't hibernate all three at the same time?
<cbx33> RichEd: ;p
<highvoltage> RichEd: watch your language!
<cbx33> highvoltage: he keeps doing that :p
<cbx33> hehehe
<RichEd> quick opinion ?? aim vs xchat <- pros / cons < need to make a decision for my standard IRC
<cbx33> xchat
<cbx33> would be my choice
<highvoltage> irssi would be my choise
<highvoltage> *choice
<cbx33> heheh
<highvoltage> xchat would be my second choice. I don't know about an aim IRC clien.
<RichEd> at a first glance, aim does more than xchat no ? (aim is default install on my edubuntu, xchat is an option to fetch)
<RichEd> aim looks like it has ICQ and other instant messenger stuff
<ogra> yeah its an instant messenger ... 
<Yagisan> I like gaim, but it needs more work for IRC
<ogra> not really suited for irc imho
<Yagisan> eg
<crimsun> if you mean Gaim, yes, it handles multiple protocols. It's quite ... unintuitive for IRC, though.
<Yagisan>  /kick doesn't seem to work
<cbx33> crimsun: totally
<ogra> haha
<RichEd> highvoltage: pray extoll on the virtues of irssi ? (in a short concise sentence)
<ogra> highvoltage, pong
<crimsun> the UI is /horrible/
<cbx33> morning ogra 
<RichEd> i'm using xchat for win right now ... and i quite like it's style
<cbx33> RichEd: xchat is probably the most intutive
<cbx33> imho
<Yagisan> but gaim does work on all protocols I need
<ogra> ++
<highvoltage> RichEd: the nicest thing about irssi is you can run it in screen
<cbx33> highvoltage: true
<RichEd> morning ogra ...
<highvoltage> RichEd: so you don't have to exit your client when switching between kubuntu/xubuntu/ubuntu
<highvoltage> you can also run it remotely, which is handy when irc ports are firewalled, or if you disconnect from the network a lot
<cbx33> edubuntu....you missed it off the list :p
<highvoltage> morning ogra
<cbx33> brb
<highvoltage> i actually meant kde/xfce/gnome :)
<crimsun> I think the nicest thing about irssi running in screen is its proxy module so you can continue to use X-Chat to connect to your irssi proxy over an ssh tunnel without losing a step.
<RichEd> highvoltage: do you mean switching "interface" as opposed to rebooting into alternate os
<highvoltage> ogra: i have a bit of a radical idea for ltsp
<highvoltage> ogra: but it's so crazy it just might work (apologies for flintism)
<highvoltage> RichEd: switching interface
<RichEd> okay ... may chat to you about the later ... i've gone the 3 boot option
<RichEd> anyway will install xchat in edubuntu for now .. and get going quickly & easily in an interface i am familiar with ... and check out the irssi later
<highvoltage> ogra: last night i was thinking about ways to make a diskless fat client better, and I thought that it might be completely redundant to have a seperate chroot for the clients
<highvoltage> ogra: so i thought, it might be better to export / to the nfs clients, and then use a free runlevel (such as runlevel 7) to boot the clients from
<ogra> indeed it is
<ogra> nah
<highvoltage> then, you solve a lot of problems
<highvoltage> such as maintenance, and how to install software... even things like getting the session information and lagnuage packs are easier.
<ogra> just add something to ltsp-client that makes it die if FAT_CLIENT is set ... so the booting goes on up to gdm
<highvoltage> ogra: ah, even better!
<highvoltage> ogra: but then I thought, is there then even a reason to have a think client chroot, because you could do the same for thin clients, but just run ldm instead of gdm?
<highvoltage> s/think/thin
<ogra> well, ldm isnt really written for local logins
<highvoltage> so the /opt/ltsp directory could then be entirely dropped, and ltsp would then just become a few scripts.
<highvoltage> ogra: i didn't mean for local logins, i menat for thin clients
<ogra> oh, you want to export / instead of /opt/ltsp
<highvoltage> (sorry for my typos, extremely lagged here)
<highvoltage> ogra: yes. i understand that that could have its own problems too
<ogra> yup
<ogra> some majore ones, like security :)
<highvoltage> that's what I thought too :(
<highvoltage> but there must be a way to get around it.
<ogra> hmm, no usplash on ppc live 
<ogra> highvoltage, well i like the idea of having a distinct system thats tailored for the task 
<ogra> the speedups i did wouldnt work in a real system for example
<ogra> boot speedup i mean
<highvoltage> for example?
<ogra> the initscripts we dropped
<highvoltage> you could do that with a new runlevel.
<ogra> thats no option in a debian based system
<highvoltage> aah
<ogra> you dont touch the defaults here
<highvoltage> i think i'll read some more debian policy tonight
<RichEd> -> shower - 15 mins
<RichEd> question posed by xchat channel: why make xchat-gnome default over xchat (via Synaptic search & install) ?
<ogra> who does that ?
<RichEd> ogra: not sure what you mean ?
<ogra> who makes xchat-gnome default over xchat ? 
<RichEd> i was using Xchat on XP ... after our chat this morning, i wanted to install on Edubuntu, so opened Synaptics, searched for xchat & installed what was listed
<ogra> oh, you probably dont have universe enabled 
<RichEd> how do i do that ?
<ogra_> go into the add/remove applications tool from your menu 
<ogra_> on the top right (at least in edgy) it has a selector
<ogra_> select "all apps"
<ogra_> then search for xchat
<ogra_> RichEd, ^^^^^^^^^
<cbx33> :D
<RichEd> doing that now ...
<RichEd> okay ... i need to select : show unsported applications and then i see: XChat IRC
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> above xchat-gnome i think :)
<RichEd> if i don't do that: i see"  XChat - GNOME IRC
<RichEd> nope below !
<ogra_> -gnome was moved to main, xchat was moved to universe, dont ask mwe why ...
<ogra_> well, for me its above :)
<RichEd> so if the average user is told : search for and install xchat ... they end up with Gnome version
<ogra_> well, they end up with the version we support 
<RichEd> (and then ask some misdirected interface questions in #xchat "why is this different to what I saw in XP yesterday") :)
<ogra_> again, dont ask me why i'm a big opponent to xchat-gnome as well as i dont like the idea of abusing an IM client to do IRC
<ogra_> but seb128 and the desktop team decided both of these ...
<RichEd> but i know we can't support all, and GNMOE looks a bit simpler for the new user
<ogra_> it lacks a lot of features
<ogra_> and i (as many other people ) find the UI unusable 
<RichEd> yep ... that is the sort of question i was asking in #xchat = no right click whois display
<ogra> yup
<RichEd> was also goping to ask about alternate nicks in settings ...
<ogra> and you cant move the userlist to the other side for example 
<ogra> i find that very disturbing
<RichEd> you can't even show it ! unless you click on the button (transient window)
<ogra> the topic ui is horrible 
<ogra> either you cant read the topic or it eats all of your windowsize 
<RichEd> ... okay will install XChat ... and make notes for later suggestions ... 
<RichEd> tx.
<ogra> i'd have goine for xchat in edubuntu ...
<ogra> but not for xchat-gnome 
<ogra> (we have some freedom what apps we select ;) )
<ogra> going for xchat wiould have meant that we'd have to support the same app with different UI twice ... so that wasnt an option 
<RichEd> i'll boot to Ubuntu just now & see if the install behavior is the same (and Kubuntu) ...
<jsgotangco> hi
<ogra> ubuntu is surely the same 
<ogra> kubuntu will likely be different i'm not sure they even have a install/remove equivalent 
<highvoltage> RichEd: do you reboot when you want another display environment?
* ogra ponders dropping kig and getting drgeo to main and into edubuntu ...
<RichEd> yes highvoltage : reasons as follows:
<RichEd> (1) want to test all installs as they are released
<highvoltage> ogra: are you on the k12osn mailing list? some misguided soul posted edubuntu feedback there :)
<RichEd> (2) want to learn the exact differences
<ogra> heh, no, i'm not :)
* jsgotangco just had a wonderful lunch with the head of  one of the most powerful and influential non-profit foundation in the country regarding edubuntu
<RichEd> (3) want to learn the similarities of the underlying installs
<highvoltage> RichEd: if you don't mind running non-free software, you could also use vmware to install it, which is very time consuming
<highvoltage> i mean, time saving :)
<RichEd> and want to be able to demo to others as they would experience it
<ogra> RichEd, apart from the desktop they are all identical
<jsgotangco> RichEd: i think we're in business here
<ogra> jsgotangco, YAY !
<jsgotangco> ogra: i think you'll be coming here soon =)
<jsgotangco> *by force*
<RichEd> hundreds jsgotangco :)
<ogra> and i think our knot 1 is ready to go ! (after three days and several nightshifts *sigh*)
<jsgotangco> ogra: i actually had a successful install an hour ago for amd64
<ogra> jsgotangco, hehe, cool, i'll come with pleasure :)
<RichEd> highvoltage: i already noted your comments earlier, and JaneW explained some of this
<RichEd> but i am a 1st principles sort of a person ... learn from the gound up without any shortcuts before i undertstand them fully
<ogra> jsgotangco, me too ... i386 did make probs ... but i found out it simply doesn like the APIC of my turon CPU
<ogra> *turion
<jsgotangco> i think the baseline is successful installation after all its just a bunch of syncs
<jsgotangco> right?
<RichEd> so i will be ready for simplification & tips in a while ... and have planned my partitions so that i can change without losing any data
<jsgotangco> there isn't much edgy features in knot-1 except a bunch of new apps
<RichEd> [ i always used to get moaned at in school for deriving theoroms in an exam instaed of learning them as given in class ]  :)
<RichEd> jsgotangco: send me an email update if you have a chance ... is this related to yesterdays chat ?
<ogra> jsgotangco, yep, but there are things like only half written sources.list files etc ...
<jsgotangco> RichEd: nope this is bigger, i just had this a few weeks ago, but only had the chance to had lunch with the head today
<jsgotangco> RichEd: this is more tangible in a sense
<jsgotangco> RichEd: because its led by the foundation of the biggest media network here
<jsgotangco> im drafting an email later about it
<ogra> thats the countrywide thing ? 
<RichEd> well even better then :) results & a voice to sing about it !
<jsgotangco> ogra: yeah
<ogra> yay
<jsgotangco> i will most likely work there
<ogra> cool !
<jsgotangco> ogra: http://www.abs-cbnfoundation.com/
<jsgotangco> why is their site in IIS
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> "in the service of the filipino child" ... nice slogan :)
<ogra> i wonder if the installer is clever enough to carry over the nolapic option to grub ...
<jsgotangco> so if things push through, i'll be working on ubuntu/edubuntu but not hired directly by canonical heh
<jsgotangco> full time
<ogra> i never tried that
<ogra> wow
<jsgotangco> i tink that's a nice thought
<jsgotangco> doing something like what guadalinex did
<ogra> so if i every should get fired i know where to ask for a job as your helper :)
<jsgotangco> this is a very influential foundation
<ogra> s/every/ever/
<jsgotangco> ogra: http://www.newsflash.org/2004/02/sb/sb003803.htm
<jsgotangco> i knew from starters they need something happening when i saw her office PC running windows98
* ogra wonderswhy all these wimen in education are called lopez ... :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: she's into meditation and she saying that ubuntu is spiritually clean
<ogra> the boss of linex is also a woman and her lkast name is lopez :)
<jsgotangco> that was unexpected (ubuntu being spiritually clean)
* jsgotangco in his mind he was telling himself he just likes using linux
<jsgotangco> because her yoga teacher introduced her to ubuntu and sayign that this is "clean" because the people behind it have good intentions compared to what you are using "windows"
<cbx33> ogra: did you say your script is updated now?
<ogra> cbx33, no, and i wont ... simply because adding such an option is useless :) 
<ogra> we dont have dapper daily CDs :)
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<ogra> there are always only the devel distro ones ... 
<cbx33> :S
<jsgotangco> if i use the script on an edgy iso, it'll rsycn to dapper?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> it defaults to edgy
<cbx33> what were you saying the other day then about the new script?
<cbx33> I'm confused?
<ogra> in this regard its updated ... 
<jsgotangco> i thought it just refers to the file name
<cbx33> oh, did you mean to sync back to dapper?
<ogra> but i didnt add an --distro option 
<cbx33> no i didn't want that
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> because that'd be uesless :)
<jsgotangco> becuase i used it and i was able to rsynch
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> but as long as it' updated I'll fix up my gui for it
<jsgotangco> so it doesn't need an update :P
<jsgotangco> because it works as is
<ogra> it was updated :)
<jsgotangco> when?
<ogra> a week ago or so 
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> im safe then
<cbx33> :p
<jsgotangco> well going back
<jsgotangco> talking about ubuntu being spiritually clean was a bit weird though
<ogra> anyway, since its really dumb it only rsyncs what it finds under http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<jsgotangco> yeah that's what i thought
<ogra> and there is no distro name in that url :)
<ogra> but it assembles the iso names from the distro name ... so i had to adjust that
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I know :p
<jsgotangco> but if you already have an existing iso, it doesn't need an adjustment
<ogra> well, it does
<jsgotangco> but you cannot use it to update a dapper iso to edgy
<jsgotangco> can you?
<ogra> edgy-install-amd64.iso
<ogra> there is edgy in it :)
<jsgotangco> because what i did was download edgy first, then rsync it using the script from the dailies
<ogra> it rsyncs $distro-$flavor-$arch.iso
<ogra> i copied the dapper isos and rsynced on top of that ...
<ogra> didnt really give any advantage :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> what's the chance that this build is knot-1
<jsgotangco> high?
<jsgotangco> because it iinstalls fine
<ogra> look into your source.list :)
<ogra> we'll have another (last) build
<RichEd> jsgotangco: re the spiritual thing ... lovely comment ... that is the sort of thing we can use as a "real user quote" ...
<RichEd> fits with the whole ubuntu meaning ...
<jsgotangco> i didnt think of it at all when she said that
<jsgotangco> so it was kind of interesting
<jsgotangco> RichEd: im writing an introductory email later
<jsgotangco> as we have discussed
<RichEd> i'll make a note of it ... we can sure use that in the press ... once we have "cleansed her" and are ready to talk about success 
<RichEd> jsgotangco: tx
<jsgotangco> "proprietary os cleansing" lol
<jsgotangco> RichEd: have you seen the link i gave to ogra?
<jsgotangco> RichEd: : http://www.newsflash.org/2004/02/sb/sb003803.htm
<RichEd> purge baby purge ... we'll also offer exorcisms for particulary difficult embedded systems  :)
<cbx33> is the convention desktop and alternative now?
<cbx33> instead of live and install?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> since dapper
<RichEd> jsgotangco: opening link while i load up a coffee ...
<cbx33> I don;t actually think I need to do anything
<cbx33> anyone in the mood to try out grasynco?
<cbx33> the gui to rsyncer.sh ?
<cbx33> branch at http://www.progbox.co.uk/grasynco
<cbx33> shuold be uptodate
<cbx33> but it is still beta
<cbx33> I will not be held responsible if it breaks your isos
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> actually.....
<cbx33> I want to make one more revision
<cbx33> then it'll be almost perfect :p
<jsgotangco> it shall be known as the great grasynco
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> sound like an italian job
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> it works fine it you already have isos there
<cbx33> just need to do the create bit
<cbx33> which is easy
<cbx33> is themeeting this lunch or is it tonight?
<ogra> tonight
<cbx33> I'll be there
<cbx33> so will AliasVegas :p
<cbx33> we were discussing artwork yesterday
<ogra> thats good
<ogra> we need to get something going ...
<ogra> time gets shorter
<jsgotangco> sorry i wont be able to attend (4am) but RichEd knows what i have been doing lately
<jsgotangco> (not doc-wise though)
<cbx33> i know 
<RichEd> is that the meeting for the morning tomorrow i.e. in 15.5 hours ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> the edubuntu meeting
<ogra> see fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<jsgotangco> dinner brb
* rodarvus just had breakfast
* cbx33 just had some shortbread
<cbx33> apple next
* ogra_ just had 3 successfull installs
<jsgotangco> yay
* jsgotangco can only boast 1
<ogra_> Knot 1 --> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20060719/
<rodarvus> ogra_: so Edubuntu Knot 1 is officially a completed milestone?
<ogra_> not yet ...
<ogra_> but that iso will be it
<ogra_> we will make an official milestone release later today
<rodarvus> good
<ogra_> the current rebuild of the isos needs testig before we can release it ...
<ogra_> but since its only a fix in the sources.list we rebuilt it for i dont expect any regressions 
<rodarvus> do you know how ubuntu and kubuntu are progressing?
<ogra_> same speed 
<rodarvus> ubiquity is sorted, then?
<ogra_> i started off earlier with testing to get the ltsp pieces sorted ... but they have taken up
<ogra_> well, roughly ...
<ogra_> its the first *alpha* release ... i wouldnt expect it to work really flawless 
<highvoltage> ogra: anything noteworthy in knot1?
<jsgotangco> it installs fine!
<ogra_> highvoltage, apart from new software versions ? 
<ogra_> not really
<jsgotangco> when you install knot-1 is like installing debian sid heh
<ogra_> development just starts ... so the breakage and new features are still ahead of us
<jsgotangco> just lots of sync
* RichEd_GAIM thinks this GAIM looks quite clunky ! closes and goes back to configuring XChat
<ogra_> heh
<jsgotangco> its the most unnatural IRC client for sure
<ogra_> highvoltage, WOW, that mail to the k12 list is impressing !
* ogra_ wouldnt have expected praise :)
<jsgotangco> link?
* jsgotangco doensn't subscribe to k12 though
<ogra_> https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12osn/2006-July/msg00279.html
<jsgotangco> nice
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> usually they dont have so much friendly words about us ... seems that changes :)
<highvoltage> ogra_: yeah, everyone loves Edubuntu :)
<ogra_> highvoltage, well, flint said different things after he met the k12 guys
<ogra_> and i tend to admin that dapper isnt ready to compete with them in terms of dhcp config stuff and local devices ... 
<ogra_> but edgy will get us there 
<ogra_> i'm really looking forward to edgy+1 already ... where al the standards are finally done and we can start playing with the instresting extra features nobody else has :)
<ogra_> and where we have full 6 months again ...
<jsgotangco> yeah we're suppose to have fun on this cycle
<ogra_> well, we were supposed to have fun in edgy already ...
<ogra_> but shortening the development to 4 moths somehow avoids that ...
<jsgotangco> i had fun a few kernels ago
<ogra_> *months too
<ogra_> at least we have some time until feature freeze now ...
<cbx33> ogra does rsyncer support xubuntu ?
<jsgotangco> no
<jsgotangco> you have to edit that
<cbx33> ogra it seems as if your script integrates fine with grasynco with no modifications
<cbx33> is anyone else concerned about the amount of spam coming through on edubutnu-devel
<jsgotangco> that's nothing compared to ubuntu-doc or ubuntu-users ;)
<cbx33> :S
<jsgotangco> i delete like a hundred a day
<cbx33> from the list or moderation?
<jsgotangco> moderation
<jsgotangco> if it goes to the list something is wrong
<jsgotangco> with the filtering
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> the gay (or bot or whatever) is subscribed properly ...
<ogra_> *guy
<ogra_> so he can send his spam and the filter wnt care
<jsgotangco> well yeah with that exception
* jsgotangco needs to update his breezy server later
<ogra_> well, its actually *one* spam thats gone thrugh ....
<ogra_> could be worse :)
<ogra_> hmm, its not even gotten through it seems ...
<ogra_> cbx33, you are admin of the ML, thats why you see it as it would have been posted to the ML
<ogra_> its not actually gone through ...
<jsgotangco> oh yeah
<jsgotangco> there's a private admin list
<highvoltage> ogra_: sometimes you have to take what flint says with a pinch of salt, it seems :)
<ogra_> sure, i know that
<ogra_> but he was so extremely disappointed
<highvoltage> the one guy I work with, Hilton, is also like that. when he's extremely happy or extremely unhappy or extremely anything, I have trouble taking him seriously, because he has these moods where he jumps from one mood to the other. I think flint is very much the same. They're both great guys, they just have their own weird personality issues.
<highvoltage> I've used K12LTSP for two years in many schools before Ubuntu, and even before Edubuntu was around, K12LTSP pales in comparison, imho.
* ogra_ still has a problem not thinking about a blonde girl if highvoltage talks about hilton :)
<ogra_> even i met him in person :)
<highvoltage> I'd only accept the contrary from someone who has actually used both systems in production environments.
<highvoltage> ogra_: lol!
<RichEd> ogra_: ping regarding K12LTSP
<ogra_> RichEd, pongedipong
<jsgotangco> hahhaa
<highvoltage> iPong, that's apple, right?
<ogra_> RichEd, argh ... damned ... 
<ogra_> you didnt see my PM i guess 
* ogra_ registers ...
<jsgotangco> RichEd: do you mind adding Mark on CC or should I not?
<RichEd> lets keep it simple for now, and i will escalate or CC if needed ...
<RichEd> if I send anthing to mark, I will be sure to CC you (you are the owner)
<jsgotangco> ok
* jsgotangco sends email 
<RichEd> and would prefer to free up mark's bandwidth for when we need actually need it
<jsgotangco> sent
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> you da man!
<highvoltage> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vincentmaher/184386385/in/photostream
<highvoltage> egh. sorry wrong channel.
<jsgotangco> Mr. Burger will be raped?
<highvoltage> burger is afrikaans for 'citizen'
<jsgotangco> ahh citizen Corey
<highvoltage> heh, yes.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: how are you doing
<highvoltage> i'm being productive this week, so I'm happy.
<highvoltage> i get frustrated when i have lots of work and don't get a chance to do it, as it's been the few weeks before
<highvoltage> we had lots of meetings and planning, which is important and I enjoy in small amounts, but when work gets behind my stress levels tend to inrease.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: how are things your side?
<jsgotangco> pretty good, there's a good chance i'll work in a foundation and do edubuntu/ubuntu full time
<highvoltage> very nice.
<highvoltage> i think everybody should work for a foundation or a non-profit at least once in their lives.
<jsgotangco> well this isn't a technology foundation for starters but leading a project can be interesting
<jsgotangco> i've been working with richard on some possible projects
<highvoltage> nice
<cbx33> jsgotangco: good on you
<cbx33> that would be cool
<cbx33> you'd be one of the lucky ones
<jsgotangco> its a project that could make or break a country
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> well if you need any other full timers :p
<cbx33> who could stay in their own country :p
<cbx33> and work from home
<cbx33> heheheh
<cbx33> right I'm over and out guys
<cbx33> i'll see you all later on
<mhz> neurogeek: hi there!
<mhz> neurogeek: how's biz
* mhz will go offline for about 15 minutes
<RichEd|busy> see you guys later in the meeting
<jsgotangco> goodnight
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
<LaserJock> bye jsgotangco 
<mhz> nn, jsgotangco 
<mhz> Anyone here with 'teaching' experience?
<LaserJock> that's kind of a vague question :-)
<mhz> LaserJock: yeah..
<mhz> Has anyone here worked as a 'teacher' in School or University or any other institution?
<LaserJock> I've been a TA for university chemistry classes, but that's it
<mhz> Has anyone here ever had to prepare class material, design study programs/syllabus, etc?
<mhz> LaserJock: hm what does TA stand for?
<LaserJock> Teaching Assistant
<mhz> ooh, i see
<LaserJock> not a lot of designing, etc.
<LaserJock> I did have to do a fair amount of grading and had my own syllabus
<LaserJock> but you are probably better off finding a "real" teacher
<mhz> hm, interesting, hehehe
<dan_young> mhz: I've got a BA in education and did student teaching before turning geek...
<mhz> LaserJock: well, I have worked as teacher for about 3 years.
<mhz> LaserJock: dan_young, the thing is this would my 3rd attempt to start working in Edubuntu-Study-Content idea
<mhz> and I was analizing exelearning or Edubuntu-Study-Content idea.
<dan_young> mhz: I did enough lesson planning in college to know how labor-intensive it is
<mhz> so, if more people with teaching experience could take a look at exelearning, maybe I could be told... ESC is not a as good as exelearning
<mhz> dan_young: indeed
<mhz> dan_young: that is why I have so much interest in ESC and exelearning
<mhz> teachers do need lot of help
<mhz> esp,in material creation and lesson planning
<LaserJock> \o/
<Petaris> Hi LaserJock 
<ogra_> LaserJock, ?
<ogra_> tell us about the reason for the party :)
<highvoltage> yeah!
<LaserJock> ogra_> Kamion, Mithrandir, edubuntu is good to go ...
<ogra_> ah, yeah :)
<ogra_> indeed 
<ogra_> did you ever doubt that ? ;)
<LaserJock> no
<ogra_> *g*
<ogra_> i did
<LaserJock> I can't doubt the magnificent ogra
<ogra_> but finally we have something t play with :)
<LaserJock> you guys read eweek stuff?
<ogra_> nope
<LaserJock> hmm, they mentioned the packaging guide I did in their review of Dapper. jerome was really excited about it
<ogra_> cool !!
<ogra_> indeed thats something to be excited about 
<LaserJock> "We were impressed to find included among the very good documentation that ships with Ubuntu a software packaging guide."
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ooh!
<highvoltage> LaserJock: well done
<ogra_> yeah !
* ogra_ cheers for LaserJock 
* highvoltage cheers for LaserJock too \O/
<LaserJock> well, it wasn't all me that's for sure
<ogra_> well, you made it happen ... 
<highvoltage> I don't think it would've happened without you
<LaserJock> but it is cool to see that people outside MOTU see it as valuable
<ogra_> no matter if you wrote every word
<ogra_> brb reboot
<LaserJock> I'm hoping it sort of becomes a mark of how excited Ubuntu is for the community to participate in their distro
<mhz> LaserJock: \o/ \o/ \o/
<highvoltage> LaserJock: what do you mean?
<LaserJock> well, I believe that one of Ubuntu's primary strengths is it's ability to turn users into contributors
<LaserJock> we build a true community around the distro
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> and I think that having an easy to use guide that is designed specifically for getting people from knowing nothing about packaging
<LaserJock> to becoming MOTUs and contributors is somewhat of a distinguishing thing for us
<LaserJock> it's got a long ways to go yet
<LaserJock> but I've been please so far with the feedback I've gotten from people
<LaserJock> I got this guy the other day who hadn't even installed Ubuntu yet, didn't know what ./configure was but has a love for Linux and wants to help out
<LaserJock> and now he is on his way to making Ubuntu *his* distro
<LaserJock> absolutely exiting
<LaserJock> </day dream>
<LaserJock> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1990777,00.asp is the URL for the article, btw. the PG is on page 3 ;-)
<Petaris> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ActiveDirectoryIntegration?highlight=%28directory%29%7C%28active%29  <--- Is this what ajmitch is working on?
<Petaris> hrm, this looks interesting too: http://sadms.sourceforge.net/
<ogra> Petaris, nope thats older ... ajmich is working on NetworkAuthentication
* Petaris looks that up
<Petaris> In the wiki right?
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> in the spec tracker in any case
<Petaris> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/NetworkAuthentication?highlight=%28NetworkAuthentication%29
<cbx33> hiya all
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<Petaris> Hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hi Petaris 
<crimsun> ogra: RE: ehci/ohci: yes, it's possible the drive is buggy/went bad (I've had those symptoms, too, until I switched optical drives)
<ogra> crimsun, well *went bad
<ogra> * would imply it worked before
<ogra> but it doesnt work with 2.6.15 either
<crimsun> hmm, long shot, but with breezy's 2.6.12?
<ogra> hmm, i dont have a 2.6.12 around atm ...
<ogra> i'll try if i'm in the other house 
<ogra> (i'm moving and have only my two lappies here)
<crimsun> ok, because those symptoms sound eerily similar to my experience with a junk OEM optical drive
<ogra> its a HD and i've already heard that there are probs with the HP pavillon ze2000 usb stack ...
<ogra> so i doubtits buggy hw
<crimsun> (err, so not buggy external HD)
<ogra> oh, and that HD works everywhere else in full speed 
<ogra> its only this laptop
<cbx33> ogra, grasynco is uploaded to REVU
<ogra> hey, great !
* ogra goes looking
<cbx33> still some work to do
<ogra> "icons created by Jeff Waugh" 
<ogra> LOOOL
<cbx33> blame sistpoty
<cbx33> :p
* ogra nearly spilled beer in his new laptop keyboard
<cbx33> sistpoty told me that saying they were created by canonical wasn't enough
<mhz> ogra: got another KB because you spilled on the older one?
<cbx33> mhz, "nearly"
<ogra> mhz, got another laptop because the crappy acre gave up
<mhz> hehehe, nice
<ogra> *acer
<cbx33> ogra, how dead is it?
<mhz> ogra: ibook and anothter?
<ogra> no idea yet
<ogra> i'll have to investigate if i'm done with moving
<cbx33> ah yes how's that going
<mhz> ogra moving??
<mhz> gee!
<ogra> either the power supply is broken (all my measuring tools are packaged in boxes) or the power management electronics are dead ...
<ogra> it doesnt get any power ...
* mhz got lost for 2 weeks and everything is new again
<ogra> but the power supply LED is on ...
<ogra> (on the power supply)
<cbx33> ah 
<mhz> hmmm, I got a similar problem witha powerbook. Bu ti was told that it was either a MotherBoard issue or a Processor one  :(
<ogra> mhz, i'm moving since more than a month already :)
<mhz> lol
<selmys> sorry to butt in but I just installed edubuntu 6.06 onto a 4-way P2 xeon and the kernel only sees one CPU. Is there an SMP kernel available yet?
<mhz> caracoal moving
<ogra> selmys, sure
<mhz> sorry, that was latin
<ogra> selmys, look in synaptic
<ogra> the kernels all start with "linux-image"
<selmys> Thanks I'll try it now.
<selmys> ok I found it ... thanks again.
<ogra> youre welcome :)
<cbx33> meeting in 45 mins yeh?
<ogra> yep
* mhz is working on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/IrcCommands
<cbx33> ogra, remember the discussion we had about gconf priority files
<cbx33> well if you have already chosen a theme that isn't the default theme, then installing edubuntu artwork won't change that will it?
<ogra> if your user settings differ from the default they wont be touched
<ogra> user overrides system is the principle
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> cbx33, is the rsyncer.sh script supposed to get installed anywhere from the grasyco package ? 
<cbx33> yes 
<cbx33> is it not
<ogra> nope
<cbx33> darn
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/packages$ dpkg -c /var/cache/pbuilder/result/grasynco_1.0.1-0ubuntu1_all.deb|grep rsync
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/packages$
* cbx33 fixes pacakge......
<cbx33> its in the source
<cbx33> ok uploaded latest version to REVU
<cbx33> sorry ogra was being rushed out the door as I finished that package
<cbx33> I should have spotted that one
<ogra> nah
<ogra> that happens ... even to me often enough :)
<cbx33> I know it's not that impressive, grasynco i mean, but it works
<cbx33> well here at least
<cbx33> thanks for beta testing
<ogra> well, now is the best time to do that :)
<cbx33> swat i thought
<cbx33> please copy your isos first
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> I don;t want you to have to redownload the mall again
<cbx33> download the mall, what am I on about :p
<cbx33> it's pre meeting excitement
<mhz> meeting in 18 minutes?
<cbx33> yup
<mhz> cool!
* mhz will finally be presetn in one !
<mhz> cbx33: on #ubuntu-meeting, not here, right?
<cbx33> yes
<mhz> thx
<cbx33> #ubuntu-meeting
<LaserJock> ack, I better grab some food then
* mhz stayed here last time and missed about 80% of it
<mhz> :(
<ogra> ************ REMINDER Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in ~13 minutes **********
<ogra> ************ REMINDER Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in ~9 minutes **********
<cbx33> why do you have to be difficult :p
<cbx33> 9, 13
<cbx33> what happened to 15
<cbx33> and 10
<cbx33> :p
<LaserJock> he missed
<HedgeMage> Wow, this means I'll be on time for once... 
<HedgeMage> thanks, ogra, you ruined my perfect record ;)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> cbx33, odd numbers are more funny :)
<cbx33> do th fibonnaci
<cbx33> sequence
<ogra> not really ... the ogra sit down and look at the screen sequence while doing pre meeting stuff ;)
<ogra> how about
<ogra> ************ REMINDER Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in ~6 minutes **********
<ogra> :)
<neurogeek> mhz, hello how are you? how is everything?
<mhz> neurogeek: tired, exhausted, frustrated...but with energy to re-invent myself once more
<ogra> ************ REMINDER Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in ~3 minutes **********
<neurogeek> mhz, men.. is everything that hard? what about your plans?
<neurogeek> can i help you with anything?
<mhz> neurogeek: puaj! long story, sad story, I lost many things, even my Edubuntu Lab :(
<cbx33> mhz, what happened?
<ogra> ************ REMINDER Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in ~1 minute **********
<ogra> :P
<LaserJock> oh for goodness sakes
<jryer> Does anyone know why my USB flash devices are no longer recognized by ubuntu? They worked fine yesterday but after upgrading, I plug them in and nothing happens.
<ogra> ************ REMINDER Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting starts NOW **********
<mhz> cbx33: neurogeek: thx for the interest on knowing but I'd prefer to tell you after the meeting :)
<cbx33> sure
<neurogeek> mhz ok
<LaserJock> argh, it appears 27 tabs is just too much for firefox to take
<cbx33> 27
<cbx33> *bah*
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: I've done more than that without problems
<LaserJock> well, the other factor is that it's on OS X
<highvoltage> goodnight everyone!
<LaserJock> that was a bit active
<jryer> ciaops
<LaserJock> highvoltage: good night highvoltage, say goodnight to the laptop too
<highvoltage> it was quite.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: will do :)
<highvoltage> i was a bit loud mouth in that meeting, but edubuntu is quite exciting.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: dream of Subway
<mhz> re
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'll dream of a subway with cheese!
<LaserJock> ooooh yeah
* mhz gets to buy some bread anc comes back
<cbx33> LaserJock, stop dreaming
<cbx33> start melting things with those scary lasers
<LaserJock> I'm working on it, have a meeting in ~ 1 hr
<HedgeMage> lol
<LaserJock> but while the laser is humming I'm trying to figure out how easy it would be to put Ubuntu on this iMac
<LaserJock> there seems to be lots of interesting hackish things, but nothing that makes me feel comfortable
<cbx33> right I'm off for a while, winding down for the night
<cbx33> ogra, once you've testing grasynco would you be able to advocate it?
<RichEd> mhz: ping
<cbx33> actually
<cbx33> bbl
<AliasVegas> night guys! :)
<LaserJock> cya
<LaserJock> poor girl, she has to put up with Pete 24x7 ;-)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> that was mean :)
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> it was
<LaserJock> in the most loving sort of way :-)
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> oi
<cbx33> :(
<LaserJock> doh, he's still around :-)
<crimsun> don't worry, LaserJock's wife has to put up with him.
<cbx33> didn't think I'd miss one like that did ya :p
<cbx33> haha
<cbx33> thanks crimsun 
<crimsun> np.
<LaserJock> crimsun: but I'm smart enough to not let her get on these channels ;-)
<crimsun> LaserJock: oppression only lasts for a while.
<cbx33> your hiding place eh LaserJock ?
<crimsun> when she wisens up, you're done for!
<LaserJock> doh
<cbx33> I've made an ally of my wife.....you wait till she see s what she's been missing out on
<ogra> crimsun, is that the reason why you are in so many channels ?
<LaserJock> LOL
<cbx33> right guys I'm off to get a cool drink
<cbx33> no comments LaserJock 
<cbx33> I will be watching 
<crimsun> ogra: not quite ;-)
<mhz> RichEd: pong
<mhz> re
* mhz had went out to buy some bread
<ogra> :)
<RichEd> mhz: <mhz> sure, RichEd. In fact, I sent about 5 emails to Mark telling what is going on, and that we needed help ... no response <- forward these on to me please
<RichEd> don't worry to tidy or anything just bang them of a is ... to give me a heads up ...
<RichEd> off as is <-
<RichEd> then send me you current thoughts / status of where to go from here
<Burgwork> RichEd, are you working for the foundation or canonical?
<RichEd> your <- you
* RichEd is getting 2 tired 2 type properly
<pygi> HedgeMage: !!!
<RichEd> Burgwork: Canonical
<HedgeMage> hey pygi 
<mhz> RichEd: okis, thx for making my life easier
<HedgeMage> pygi: meeting friday at 21:30 UTC
<RichEd> sidebar for those who don't know it yet ... I am also "Mr JaneW" :)
<mhz> LOL
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> RichEd: I thought she was Mrs. RichEd ;-)
<RichEd> so have been with you all in spirit for a while ... now formally part of the team
<Burgwork> RichEd, excellent. What are you doing for canonical?
<mhz> RichEd: so you got a tattoo too?
<HedgeMage> RichEd: in that case you must be cool :P
<ogra> Burgwork, if you would attend the meetings, you'd know :P
<RichEd> sure mhz : i had to hold Mrs RichEd's hand while she got done
<RichEd> Burgwork:  "Education Programme Manager" to be client & relationship facing
<Burgwork> ogra, some of us actually work
<mhz> RichEd: however, my main concern is to encourage LAm people to start contributing actively instead of staying like end-users only. And the difficult part so far has been motivating teachers to jump in
<Burgwork> RichEd, ah, cool
<Burgwork> ogra, ;)
<pygi> HedgeMage: hey, yes I saw that
<pygi> I am not sure I'd be able to attend once again
<ogra> Burgwork, ;)
<crimsun> mhz: what sort of [free]  workshops have you guys/gals held for said teachers?
<HedgeMage> pygi: How've you been? I never see you any more?
<RichEd> mhz: i do understand the where the teachers are coming from though ...
<mhz> RichEd: but with all due respect, the one on JaneW looks sexy
<RichEd> underpaid, overworked, have to teach kids who know more about tech gadgets that they do
<RichEd> have to take more training themselves, look after school sports ...
<RichEd> and fetch their own kids from school
<RichEd> etc.
<pygi> HedgeMage: I've been on a trip lately, haunting my hosting provider people, and stuff instead of contributing
<RichEd> which is why we need to create compelling human factors
<HedgeMage> pygi: ahh fun fun :)
<mhz> RichEd: hmm, simply put, Edubuntu needs teachers (lab people). Teachers can help us build a community with edu contents.
<crimsun> teaching is a 24/7 job. We literally get NO break.
<RichEd> give me a sec to type something neatly, and i will paste a good analagy
<pygi> HedgeMage: I so hate hosting providers, why cant I just use my own servers for my needs? :P
<RichEd> (from the business world)
<RichEd> brb ... 2 mins
<mhz> cbx33: can you rephrase., please. I did not quite understand
<mhz> crimsun: you are a techer too?
<crimsun> mhz: yes.
<ogra> pygi, use server housing with a machine you own ... not a vserver :)
<pygi> ogra: eh :)
<mhz> crimsun: have you seen my idea of Edubuntu-Study-Content? I have trouble in my head picturing if such idea is good enough to work on. Or I should just start promoting a similar idea via Exelarning
<crimsun> let's put it this way. Teachers don't have free weekends or nights, unlike some mobile calling plans ;-)
<mhz> lol
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> 24/7
<crimsun> mhz: I'm not familiar; would you link me, please?
<mhz> sure
<mhz> about the 2 things?
<crimsun> E-S-C and Exelarning
<pygi> HedgeMage: poke? :P
<HedgeMage> pygi: because then you'd need lots of expensive bandwidth
<HedgeMage> that's why I don't do it anyhow
<mhz> crimsun: https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-study-content  |  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuStudyContent
<pygi> HedgeMage: right, but this way I cant host what I want :P
<pygi> Anyway, what are we upto with this meeting?
<crimsun> mhz: thanks
<RichEd> mhz: see pvt window for paste flood ...
<mhz> yeah, reading it
<HedgeMage> pygi: true :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: things are just going slow so since the last meeting fell apart when I got stuck on the army base I thought we'd try another round to make sure we're all on the same page... should be fairly quick.
<HedgeMage> pygi: scheduled it for after the docteam meeting so if they have anything that effects us it can get mentioned
<HedgeMage> that's about it
<cbx33> mhz, what did you not understand?
<Petaris> my scroll wheel is not working as expected in edubuntu
<pygi> HedgeMage: oki, thanks
<HedgeMage> np
<Petaris> a look at the xorg.conf file shows what seems to be the correct settings though
<mhz> cbx33: your question
<LaserJock> HedgeMage and pygi: it would be cool if you came to the doc team meeting
<cbx33> which question?
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: planning to.
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: that's why I waited to schedule the EH one
<pygi> LaserJock: when would that be if I may ask?
<mhz> crimsun: http://www.exelearning.org/?q=about  |  http://www.exelearning.org/?q=screenshots
<LaserJock> pygi: Friday 19:00 UTC, I believe. I'm thinking it will be in #ubuntu-doc since there is another meeting scheduled in #ubuntu-meeting at that time
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: yes, it conflicts with the marketing meeting
<mhz> crimsun: exelearning will give you Moodle and SCORM content
<crimsun> mm, moodle.
<crimsun> I remember that bugfix-from-hell
<pygi> LaserJock: hm,oki
<pygi> LaserJock: I am afraid that all I can promise atm is that I will try to attend 
<LaserJock> that's all I can ever do ;-)
<LaserJock> but this will be the doc team's Edgy planning meeting so it would be good to have somebody from the handbook team there
<pygi> LaserJock: as I said, I'll try
<pygi> and Susan will be there also probably
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: Unless the Army steals me again, I'll be there.
<LaserJock> heh
<pygi> HedgeMage: #banyantree just for a sec pls :)
#edubuntu 2006-07-20
<cbx33> nn all
<mhz> crimsun: so, could read the info (urls)?
<mhz> cbx33: nn
<crimsun> mhz: yes (phone conference presently)
<cbx33> mhz, what was that question?
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> cbx33: oooh, sorry, it was crimsun 
<mhz> <crimsun> mhz: what sort of [free]  workshops have you guys/gals held for said teachers?\
<mhz> crimsun: i did not get that
<cbx33> grrrr
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> see pm
<cbx33> mhz, 
<Petaris> later all
<crimsun> mhz: Have you held any workshops/gatherings/presentations for teachers?
<mhz> crimsun: yes I have
<mhz> about 7
<mhz> in last 9 months
<mhz> oh, sorry, crimsun ... about 19 edubuntu demos, 7 talks/presentations
<crimsun> mhz: what kind of feedback/response did you get from those teachers?
<mhz> crimsum: a) ooh, good, I want that too but how is this diff from Edulinux
<mhz> crimsun: b) hmm, I have no computers and can't afford them, Can you also provide them
<RichEd> <mhz> "the one on JaneW looks sexy" <- so we agree on many things
<mhz> crimsun: c) cool! Please go to my school. I go there, and there are about 40 students in a class, and the lab has only 10 pcs, Pentium II
<RichEd> but sharing goes only so far ;)
<mhz> RichEd: LOL!!!
<RichEd> and not further
<RichEd> goodnight all ... off to bed ...
<crimsun> mhz: not too dissimilar from the responses I've received.
<LaserJock> goodnight RichEd 
<mhz> nn, RichEd 
* RichEd wonders if LaserJock has a LaserBootStrap
<mhz> crimsun: yeah, it is incredible how similar it goes allover the world
<mhz> education areas are too abandoned, even in Universities
<mhz> there is a huge MONOculture
<LaserJock> darn, that was rather funny. To bad he left
<mhz> hehehe, Laser_away 
<bddebian> Hello
<mhz> bddebian: hi there
<HedgeMage> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi mhz, HedgeMage
<mhz> HedgeMage: TT, sleeping yet/
<HedgeMage> mhz: nope, not for 3-4 more hours :)
<mhz> eeek, then it is time you fetch him a nice keyboard
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> I finally got hubby's permission to dual-boot his old desktop so TT has a Linux computer to use regularly.
<HedgeMage> hopefully going all-edubuntu eventually
<mhz_food> yay!!
<LaserJock> hmm, we should be in http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/48 and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/Summary_18JULY2006
<jsgotangco> we?
<jsgotangco> ahh the 3 main flavours
<jsgotangco> hehe
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:irc.freenode.net] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
<highvoltage> LaserJock: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jul2006/tc20060718_915334.htm?campaign_id=bier_tclt2
<highvoltage> LaserJock: sorry, my firefox has gone mad
<highvoltage> i meant to post this link:
<highvoltage> http://science.slashdot.org/science/06/07/19/1553242.shtml
<LaserJock> the first one was funny
<LaserJock> yep
<highvoltage> :)
<LaserJock> there is a thing called optical molasses (sp?)
<LaserJock> where when you shoot molecules with lots and lots of photons you actually start slowing them down
<LaserJock> we have a project in my lab that does some similar stuff
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: did you change your jabber?
<LaserJock> we want to trap the molecules and then use the laser to start them spinning
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: jabberafrica.org doesn't exist anymore right?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: wow. does your lab/institute have a website?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yes, it doesn't exist anymore
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'm now jonathan@jabber.org
<LaserJock> highvoltage: not with info on that project
<highvoltage> what happens when you make molekules spin in a stationary position?
<highvoltage> do you build small engines and stuff?
<LaserJock> we will turn them into gyroscopes
<LaserJock> all spinning in the same direction
<LaserJock> they you can shoot them at other molecules ;-)
<highvoltage> ah yes. I remember some things you explained to me about the direction that molecules spin in.
<highvoltage> geepers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sbocaj/192436679
* RichEd waves hello
<Burgundavia> hey RichEd
<RichEd> 'lo Burgundavia 
<RichEd> pretty quiet here ... all code complete & all children educated then ?
<RichEd> ;)
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> merely the quiet time as NA is asleep and EU not yet up
<RichEd> okay ... so i am in africa (sort of in the middle) and you ?
<pygi> morning all
<Burgundavia> west coast of Canada, Victoria BC
<Burgundavia> hey pygi
<Burgundavia> RichEd: you are in Cape Town?
<RichEd> yebo :)
<Burgundavia> if I have the money/time, I am planning to travel back to SA and see the family. I should stop in an bug the shuttleworth/canonical/hbd crew
<jsgotangco> RichEd: so did you get to read my email
<jsgotangco> RichEd: ignore the conference reply thing btw
<RichEd> jsgotangco: hi there :)
<jsgotangco> doesnt fall in our scope to say the least
<RichEd> sure did ... get the mail thanks ...
<jsgotangco> RichEd: so did i pass the "good military report" thing
<jsgotangco> cool
* jsgotangco takes a short break
<Burgundavia> night all
<RichEd> just to get my head straight ... this was discussion #2 - Lopez
<jsgotangco> yeah
<RichEd> night Burgundavia ... 
<RichEd> so you just used the general format suggested for #1 :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> i thought it fit well
<RichEd> initiative & reuse ... you'll make a good soldier lad !
* RichEd flips windows to do get some to-do's off his list ... mention me by name if you need me in the next while
<cbx33> mornin all
<pygi> hey cbx33
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<pygi> whats up cbx33? :)
<cbx33> hmmm...waiting for gisomount to get into universe
<cbx33> it's been approved on REVU
<pygi> oh !
<pygi> anyone have any idea how can I get ahold of my freenode password? :P
<pygi> Burgwork: any chance you are here?
<RichEd> observation: when a windows application crashes, and it asks if i would like to send a bug report, my first reaction is "no way" ... i have just had my first Ubuntu (evolution) crash, and when i got the same request, i am more than happy to send it, and hope that it helps them in future.
<ogra> :)
<pygi> RichEd: And what you learned out of it? :)
<jsgotangco> i dont agree with that
<ogra> rodarvus, !
<jsgotangco> if its a serious bug in a windows application, im more than happy to report it
<jsgotangco> because im not the only one whose going to benefit when it gets fixed (hopefully)
<rodarvus> good morning
<rodarvus> hi ogra!
<RichEd> yes, but there is always a feeling that the people at MS are looking too deply into your personal details
<RichEd> it may be a predjudice on my behalf, but i'm sure i am not the only one !
<ogra> rodarvus, i'd like a opinion about a change i plan in ltsp
<RichEd> pygi : i feel glad to be part of a community ... not a consumer of a corporate product
<rodarvus> ogra: go ahead :)
<RichEd> jim morrison said: the police are supposed to look over us, now they look at us <- i guess that's how i feel about the "MS commercial machine"
<ogra> rodarvus, we constantly have problems with people changing their IP on the ltsp server and not being able to login afterwards because they forget to run ltsp-update-sshkeys
<ogra> rodarvus, the idea is to add a /etc/network/if-up.d/ script that generates them every time the interface comes up (afer te IP is set)
<pygi> RichEd: :)
<rodarvus> ogra: seems quite sane, imho - we just need to check if LTSP is setup before running the script
<ogra> that will slow down the interface configuration a bit but would guarantee that the keys are always in pace
<rodarvus> but otherwise, should be ok
<ogra> rodarvus, ltsp-update-sshkeys already has these checks in my local branch ... i also switched it to use logger for its output, so we have feedback in /var/log/messages
<rodarvus> /var/log/messages is probably not a good place for that
<ogra> ok, if you think thats sane, i'll do the switch
<ogra> thast what logger uses by default
<rodarvus> correct, but only by default :)
<ogra> i can use logger -f with any file you like, which would be your preferred one ? 
<ogra> daemon.log ? syslog ?
<rodarvus> there is no ltsp specific log, yet?
<ogra> waht for ? 
<ogra> theo only things that could log there would be dhcpd or sshd 
<ogra> but they log in daemon log anyway
<rodarvus> yes, overkill, indeed
<rodarvus> I was just wondering it would be nice to have a central place to have ltsp-related logs to go (such as we have for samba, apache, squid, etc)
<ogra> (ssh even scatters its info over daemon and auth log)
<ogra> i had that for the installer, but even there Kamion asked me to make it included into the main installer log
<rodarvus> right
<ogra> (which i'm not really fond of ... having a separate ltsp log there would be a lot easier than grepping)
<rodarvus> maybe syslog
<ogra> but the in-target function of the installer seems to not allow that ... i was thinking of parallel logging to a separate log *inside* of ltsp-build-client
<rodarvus> as its a semi-generic system event
<ogra> (which would mean we have a /var/log/ltsp-build.log in the target system after install
<highvoltage> this is weird. as i'm reading ogra and rodarvus's text i'm hearing it in their accents in my head.
<ogra> ok, putting it in sslog
<ogra> *syslog
<ogra> highvoltage, hehe
* highvoltage takes a break
<rodarvus> haha
<rodarvus> highvoltage: apparently you really need a break :D
* ogra wonders if debian will slay him for that /etc/network/if-up.d/ change ... its not helpful if you use xdmcp
<rodarvus> well, we don't use xdmcp
<ogra> but they do in some setups
<ogra> but its up to them, they can add a preseedable debconf option to ltsp-server to not install the script ...
<bimberi> RichEd: that ("i feel glad to be part of a community ... not a consumer of a corporate product") is so very very well put!
<RichEd> bimberi: it's just us ... in my olde worlde it was us & them
<bimberi> :)
<bimberi> yes, there's a very different _feel_ about using Free software
<rodarvus> ogra: is edubuntu-membership also free-for-all (as with edubuntu-testers?)
<ogra> for the edubuntu team, yes ... not for edubuntu-members though ...
<ogra> i'm not sure we schould keep the edubuntu team ... it predates edubuntu-members
<ogra> and has not really any functional use ...
<rodarvus> actually, I agree with you here.
<ogra> (apart from perpole declaring they like edubuntu )
<rodarvus> lets add this as subject for the next meeting?
<ogra> ok
<ogra> i'm not sure how to close a LP team though 
<ogra> or if thats even possible
<pygi> LP people can probably do it
<ogra> they ca for sure 
<ogra> *can
<ogra> but still we'd need to notify the users about *why* we're doing it ... there are many users that never participated in any communication channel (IRC/ML)
<ogra> i wouldnt like to just kill the team without pushing them a bit into direction of real membership 
<rodarvus> I suppose we can just send a spam to all of the members of Edubuntu
<ogra> not through LP ... sadly
<ogra> there is a mailinglist feature for teams panned, but that doesnt work yet
<ogra> *planned
<pygi> ogra, we can just remove them from the team and do a comment that we are erasing the team
<ogra> with a hint to apply for real membership ... yes, that sounds good
<pygi> indeed
<pygi> tho, from a lot of people there we havent heard never
<ogra> yep
<bimberi> ogra: how about this ...
<ogra> but that doesnt mean we should loose tem :)
<ogra> *them
<bimberi> there's a kubuntu-users team that for "All users of Kubuntu!", how about renaming the edubuntu team to that and let it work the same way
<pygi> ogra: ofcourse
<bimberi> s/that/edubuntu-users/
<ogra> bimberi, that sounds way better than deleting it ...
<ogra> and we can still send that notification to make them aware of edubuntu-members :)
<bimberi> it's just an open team that anyone can join and you never know it might be a way you can contact a group of users in the future
<ogra> yes, thats one of the desired LP features ...
<bimberi> (although the mailing list is fine for that :) )
<rodarvus> seems like a great idea
<ogra> yeah
<bimberi> https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-users (for ref)
* ogra rebotts to test the ltsp change
* highvoltage is still finding ldap incredibly difficult
<ogra> dont use it then :)
<ogra> rsync /etc/passwd and /etc/groups and /etc/shadow through ssh ;)
<RichEd> ogra ... ready for some more good OEM news ?
<RichEd> kc from taiwan has a strong enquiry from Quanta computers for Ubuntu OEM OLPC
<highvoltage> you can have OEM OLPC's? that's interesting.
<RichEd> <quote> They will plan a new US $200 OLPC product for richer children and want to know how to bundle ubuntu Linux in any business model. <endquote>
<highvoltage> cool.
<ogra> YAY
<ogra> rodarvus, ^^^^^^^^^^
<ogra> RichEd, rodarvus is our OLPC guy :)
<rodarvus> :)
<rodarvus> RichEd: thats great news!
<RichEd> this is forbes.com --- start
<RichEd> Lam is the billionaire founder and chairman of Taiwan's Quanta Computer. He'll be disappointed if he doesn't ship 4 million notebook units this yearone seventh of all those sold on earth and up 50% from last year. Quanta makes more notebooks than anyone else, but you've probably never heard of it. You do know its customers: Dell, Compaq, Gateway, Apple, HP, IBM, Sony, Sharp, Fujitsu, Siemens.
<RichEd> this is forbes.com --- end
<RichEd> :))
<rodarvus> RichEd: so this is all public info already?
<ogra> wow
<RichEd> an enquiry thus far ... nothing formal as yet ... 
<RichEd> but they are approaching us
<rodarvus> nice
<cbx33> that's cool
<jsgotangco> that's interesting, although i did hear before of a plan to create a very cheap laptop
<jsgotangco> the cheapest you can get here is around $300US
<jsgotangco> and its not even a laptop, but a tiny mobo in a laptop shell with lcd but no battery =(
<highvoltage> apparently intel is manufacturing a cheap laptop for $400
<jsgotangco> have you heard of the VIAC3
<highvoltage> yep, i'm workign on VIA C3 PC's as we speak.
<highvoltage> I have a few hundred of them just behind me :)
<jsgotangco> how do you find them
<highvoltage> we're going to use them for the digital doorway project
<jsgotangco> terminal clients?
<highvoltage> CSIR bought them from VIA in taiwan.
<highvoltage> well, they were build to be used as thin clients, we're going to use them for diskless fat clients.
<jsgotangco> yeah theyre the cheapest x86 you can get in this part of the globe
<highvoltage> these are Via C3 1ghz with 512MB RAM, and S3 Savage 3D display cards
<highvoltage> quite nice.
<jsgotangco> are they real 1GHz?
<bddebian> Howdy
* jsgotangco bows at bddebian
<bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: as far as I can tell
<highvoltage> cpuinfo says 997 mhz
<jsgotangco> hmm not bad
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: those machines will go into these boxes: http://www.digitaldoorway.co.za/
<jsgotangco> are you building kiosks?
<highvoltage> kind of. i'm just working on the software side. the metal cages will be built by a contractor.
<highvoltage> but yes, these are kiosks.
<jsgotangco> but it doesn't have a coin slot right?
<jsgotangco> its unrestricted use?
<jsgotangco> they have a lot of stuff like that in korea, except that theyre more used for communication and info and you have to put coins or your credit card
<jsgotangco> and only has an on screen keyboard
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: no, it doesn't have a coin slot, yes, unrestricted use
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: interesting
<jsgotangco> and they run win2k!
<jsgotangco> <g>
<highvoltage> whohoo! a whole win2k license just to browse the web and read e-mail!
<highvoltage> people seem to love wasting money.
<jsgotangco> yep so there are some terminals that have bsod sometimes
<jsgotangco> err what's this meeting?
<mhz> jsgotangco: hi
<mhz> Development Team
<RichEd> mhz: Mr & Mrs RichEd say hi across the atlantic
<jsgotangco> ahh i didnt notice it at all
* jsgotangco was busy writing some stuff
<mhz> RichEd: hey!!
<RichEd> did you get my greetz ?
<mhz> jsgotangco: well, not to worry
<RichEd> (mail)
<pygi> Burgwork: poke? :)
<mhz> RichEd: oh, it took me a while to get it back from Trash :)
* mhz igsnores, just delete, or mark it as spam when the email subject has either just one word or it is too generic, sorry
<mhz> RichEd: yeah, i got it now ;)
<RichEd> ??? have you got an autofilter on my mail stright to trash ;)
<RichEd> just wanted to make contact via email ...  so that you send me some LAm info to digest
<RichEd> no rush ... just passing the ball to you (and off my crowded to do list)
<mhz> RichEd: nope, this time, it was me manually marking it for delete 'test..'  That was the only subject, so I usually give priority to the other 500 daily emails, unless I know either the person or the subject is about
<isheep> Are you guys the developers of edubuntu?
<mhz> RichEd: yeah, good idea, esp. after the netsplit yesterday night
<mhz> some are, isheep 
* jsgotangco yawns
<isheep> ok was just wondering sorry
<mhz> isheep: no sorry
<isheep> :)
* RichEd loads geek2human module to parse strange lexicon
<RichEd> isheep, this is where the developers are often to be found ... when they are not too busy
<RichEd> anything you are looking for ? (in specific) ?
<isheep> What kind of media programms do you guys use when you're using ubuntu? i mean the ones that are provided whit edubuntu or are there better alternatives?
<mhz> RichEd: thx for jumping in 
* mhz was answering in two channles at the same time and reading ubuntu-meeting :(
<isheep> RichEd: not really just kinda new to IRC/Edubuntu so just looking around:)
<RichEd> isheep, this is a Edubuntu channel ... Ubuntu questions are best in #ubuntu
<RichEd> (advising ... not being offish :)
<mhz> isheep: here's a list of channels related to ubuntu family: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
<RichEd> and isheep you'll need to be quite specific ... what sort of media ? ... or better, ask what you are trying to acheive ...
<isheep> im sorry i ment edubuntu
<RichEd> okay ... what are you trying to do media wise ?
<isheep> movies divx ect 
<RichEd> okay ... then try something like: google [movies divx Ubuntu +site:ubuntu.com] 
<RichEd> most of the hardcore people are in a dev meeting right now ...
<RichEd> but specific google searches give good results if you add the +site tag
<isheep> cool thanks never knew about that tag
<ogra> !restricted
<ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats  -  See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html  -  But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<ogra> isheep, ^^^
<isheep> but i was more wondering what your 'hardcore' guys use.. 
<mhz> well, i am no hardcore guy, but i try to stay 'free as in freedom'
<mhz> even if it is a bit painfull
<isheep> hehe
<isheep> is the meeting for members only? i would like to see what the topics are :)
<mhz> isheep: jump in
<ogra> isheep, its the distro development weekly status meeting ...
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistroTeamMeeting20060720 has the status info
<mhz> isheep: all meetings held on #ubuntu-meeting are public
<mhz> isheep: however, it is faster to read that url
<isheep> faster?
<mhz> hmm, faster to get to know what the status is
<jsgotangco> hardcore eh?
<mhz> jsgotangco: dont
<mhz> :D
<jsgotangco> user interfaces! who needs them!
<mhz> lol
<mhz> GNOME does
* mhz uses ion2
<mhz> so I am not much of a reference
<highvoltage> what is GFS again?
<ogra> global filesystem
<highvoltage> mhz: why ion2 and not ion3?
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks
<jsgotangco> hmm the bed is calling me
<mhz> highvoltage: oh, I just apt-got it long ago :D
<ogra> jsgotangco, and ? do you pick up ?
<highvoltage> must have been long ago :)
<mhz> have not upgraded since then
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: hit it ;)
<jsgotangco> im having this weird new age conversation on y!m with this yoga instructor
<jsgotangco> lol
<isheep> what motu?
<highvoltage> isheep: are you asking what a Motu is?
<isheep> yeah sorry typo
<highvoltage> Motu stands for Masters of the Universe
<highvoltage> the Universe is Ubuntu's community supported software repository
<isheep> ok thanks
<highvoltage> often incorrectly refered to as the unsupported repository
<highvoltage> motu's are responsible for keeping the Universe in shape.
<isheep> pretty big responsiblity then
<Petaris> isheep: no kidding, one oops and a sun could explode or a blackhole could suck up the Earth ;p
<isheep> lol
<RichEd> or even the unreported suppository ;)
<isheep> is kamio the guy that arranges everything in #ubuntu-meeting? i dont know the english name for it sorry
<mhz> Petaris: hehehe, nice
<mhz> isheep: where are you from?
<isheep> the netherlands
<mhz> oh, send me some CDs !
<mhz> just kidding
<isheep> hehe
<Petaris> mhz: :)
<isheep> first guy that diddnt ask me to send weed ;)
<Petaris> haha
<isheep> honestly :P
<mhz> nope, weed can be gotten here in LAtinamerica, and nope, I dont do weed, I just do CDs :D
<isheep> hehehe
<ogra> mhz, dont they burn really awful if you put them into tobacco ? 
<mhz> LOL!
<isheep> what kind of "people" are using edubuntu
<mhz> mostly, Labs at schools
<mhz> or teachers, or parents
<isheep> you guys arrent using edubuntu?
<mhz> personally, my 2 kids use Edubuntu apps, at least 3 times a week
<mhz> hehe, yeah! I am
<isheep> hehe well why edubuntu en not ubuntu then?
<mhz> because, the approach of edubuntu is best to my needs
<mhz> edubuntu is aimed towards education purposes
<isheep> ok
<mhz> I teach old people to use the mouse, the PC, 
<isheep> nice
<mhz> I envourage young learners to use many interesting apps
<mhz> encourage
<mhz> plus, I need the LTSP fact
<isheep> what media apps for movies/music do you advise for someone who's kinda new to the pc? (me) honestly first time i have internet :)
* mhz is not the one to answer that
<mhz> one = best one
<Petaris> isheep: I have one edubuntu lab installed (25 clients) and one being implemented now (25 clients)
<Petaris> :)
<isheep> hm ok but do you sugest anything?
<isheep> Petaris: nice!
<RichEd> jsgotangco: i'll give mrs lopez an intro & nudge email tomorrow to answer when she is back from NY City
<RichEd> we must look at next steps - ( other than the Linux conference proposal)
* RichEd needs to go out for dinner and spend some time with the family
<RichEd> so until tomorrow edubunteros ... it's goodbye from Africa
<isheep> RichEd: have fun :)
<pygi> enjoy RichEd
<ogra> ciao RichEd 
<rodarvus> RichEd: enjoy
<RichEd> will send greetz to janeW from all
<rodarvus> this developers meeting was quite confusing, without the pastes.
<rodarvus> ogra^^
<rodarvus> :)
<rodarvus> sorry for not giving context
<RichEd> sorry ... just a quickie ... anyone going to the marketing meeting tonight ?
<ogra> rodarvus, yeah, i didnt like it at all
<ogra> RichEd, whats a marketing meeting ? 
* ogra never saw one ... 
<ogra> i silbs leading it ? 
<ogra> *is
<RichEd> ogra: well then they are not doing a good job of self promotion ;)
<ogra> hmm, the fridge hanst one set either 
<ogra> RichEd, not even with scheduling it seems :)
<RichEd> ah ... wrong date ...
<ogra> yeah, its tomorrow :)
* RichEd slaps himself aropund a bit
<ogra> nah, tats not worth it :)
* RichEd slinks away quitely
<RichEd> quietly even :P
<ogra> :)
<RichEd> quite quietly
<mhz> RichEd: i am going to Marketing Meeting
<RichEd> it is tomorrow not tonight ?
<ogra> according to the calendar its tomorrow
<RichEd> okay tx
<mhz> oh, yeah
<mhz> tomorrow, firday at 15:00 in Chile
* mhz sighs
* mhz must be the only one not comfrotable with meetings being held in the middle of day
<mhz> th1a: hi there
<th1a> hi mhz
* mhz remembers th1a efforts in SchoolTool
<th1a> That's what I do.
<mhz> yeah, and I am glad you do it
<th1a> I just got back from the first SchoolTool sprint, which was a raging success.
<highvoltage> yay!
<mhz> ogra: nothing to do but, yesterday I was "evangelising' about the use and power of python (you know I am totally ignorant about it) to a programmer. I missed not having an url I could reccomend for him to know about what he can do with python regarding DBs and other impressive stuff
<mhz> th1a: congrats!
<th1a> Thanks.  The goal for the day is to write up the results and lessons in more detail.
<th1a> We basically managed to do a long-needed redesign of navigation in the web interface the first day and implement a big chunk of it in the second.
<mhz> wow
<mhz> sounds lot of work
<mhz> how many people in the sprint
<mhz> ?
<th1a> Well, two of our core developers,
<th1a> plus two developers who work on CanDo, which is a competency tracking application for SchoolTool.
<cbx33> th1a, sounds great
<th1a> All the CanDo developers are students or former students of Jeff Elkner, who has also been somewhat involved with Edubuntu.
<mhz> yup
<th1a> We also had three of his younger (14 & 15 yr. old) students there.
<mhz> CanDo? ooh, I forgot about it
<th1a> We did the sprint at a regional grassroots conference for open source in schools:  http://nelinux.net
* mhz now has 17 tabs :S
<th1a> It is organized by Matt Oquist, who you might also know from Software Freedom Day and other project.
<th1a> projects.
<th1a> So we got some feedback from other conference attendees at the beginning of the conference and presented our work at the end.
<th1a> It seemed like a great way to do a sprint & get teachers & school IT people engaged in the project.
<mhz> COOL! idea
<th1a> Yes, it worked even better than I'd hoped.
<mhz> gee! I just hope soon, we have many people doing interesting stuff in Latinamerica (hopefully in Chile) so we can get together and do stuff like that
<th1a> It is the first time I've really felt like I've had a breakthrough in how to get open source hackers and educators working together.
<th1a> Plus it really pushes the sprinters to want to have something substantial done to show off ;-)
<mhz> indeed, very good idea
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<bddebian> Hello cbx33
<cbx33> hey bddebian 
<cbx33> how are you
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<cbx33> howz it going
<LaserJock> well, I
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how to do a calendar on the wiki
<LaserJock> or somewhere
<cbx33> LP does a calendar doesn't it?
<pygi> cbx33: aha
<cbx33> what ?
<cbx33> :p
<LaserJock> cbx33: not really the way we need
<LaserJock> I can make my own personal calendar
<cbx33> ok.....sorry
<LaserJock> but I need more of a collaborative one
<cbx33> when i have downlaoded a dsc, orig.tar.gz and diff
<cbx33> how do i make the source tree so I can build the binary pacakge?
<cbx33> debuild <what> ?
<crimsun> you've downloaded the source package already, so all you need to do is pbuild/sbuild it.
<crimsun> pbuilder build foo.dsc
<crimsun> debuild is only relevant from within an extracted source package
<crimsun> (you can extract it with: dpkg-source -x foo.dsc)
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> thanks crimsun 
<highvoltage> ogra: are you familiar with a German organisation called 50 from North?
<juliux> highvoltage, hi, do you have a link?
<highvoltage> juliux: unfortunately no, I tried googling it too.
<juliux> highvoltage, ok
<highvoltage> at the guest house I'm staying, is a guy called Johannes, I don't know his surname
<highvoltage> he's from and organisation called 50 from North, and open source organisation in Germany, he says they're planning a big conference in Switzerland later this year.
<juliux> never heard anything about them
<Petaris> highvoltage: ask him for a url
<Petaris> :)
<juliux> highvoltage, which url is his e-mail account?
<Petaris> fiftyfromnorth.org or something
<highvoltage> ok, i'll ask him tomorrow
<Petaris> highvoltage
<Petaris> http://www.52north.org/
<highvoltage> juliux: I don't know, I just talked to him the first time tonight :)
<Petaris> 52north
<Petaris> :)
<highvoltage> aaaah
<juliux> hm mnster is not in the north of germany ;)
<highvoltage> i remembered it was '50 to north' or '50 from north' or something :)
<highvoltage> yeah he said he's at Meunster university
<juliux> hm strange there are from  germany but they dont have a germany website
<Petaris> netcraft says its german
<Petaris> er, located in Germany
<highvoltage> yes, I even searched or the site with google.de and found nothing, then again, I searched for the wrong things (ended up with 50 cent ringtones, etc)
<juliux> Petaris, the site is not in german ;)
<Petaris> no
<Petaris> its not
<Petaris> but
<juliux> highvoltage, and what does he want from you?
<Petaris> http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.52north.org
<highvoltage> juliux: nothing, we just chatted, we were at the same table during dinner
<juliux> ah
<Burgwork> pygi, pong
<Petaris> I like their website design
<cbx33> ogra, your rsyncer script has problems
<cbx33> :S
<Petaris> FOSS4G2006 - Free and Open Source Software for Geoinfromatics: September 12 - 15, 2006 in Lausanne, Switzerland.
<highvoltage> juliux: i talk to a lot of people who want nothing from me, and I want nothing from them, I'm a bit of a compulsive friend maker :)
<juliux> highvoltage, hehe
<ogra> cbx33, ?
<ogra> cbx33, i used it the last 5 days very excessive :)
<cbx33> :S
<pygi> Burgwork:hey, how are you?
<Burgwork> pygi, not bad
<pygi> Burgwork: got response :)
<pygi> End of his semester, he will work hard to catch up with things
<pygi> he will also report to dholbach
<pygi> talked with dholbach, told him that
<Burgwork> perfect
<pygi> o my, I started doing reports !!!
<cbx33> ogra, pm'd you my problems
<cbx33> hehe
<highvoltage> cbx33: where can i download it? is it in universe yet?
<cbx33> not yet
<Petaris> I need to figure out this scroll wheel issue
<cbx33> and good job, it doesn't seem to work with the new rsyncer script
<Petaris> If I move the scroll wheel on my mouse the cursor flys to the right side of the screen
<Petaris> its odd
<highvoltage> are you using ps2 or imps2 driver?
<Petaris> usually it either works or doesn't, but doesn't usually send the cursor flying
<highvoltage> that happened to me previously with a plain ps2 driver
<Petaris> explorerps2
<Petaris> should I change it to just ps/2
<highvoltage> perhaps the imps2
<highvoltage> hmmm.. I wonder if that's still in use
<highvoltage> my xorg.conf says ExplorerPS/2 too.
<highvoltage> Petaris: I don't know anymore, seems like things have changed :)
<highvoltage> i suppose trying another driver would be worth while though.
<mhz_work> Petaris: yeah...have had same issue
<mhz_work> only in ubuntu flavours
<mhz_work> well, maybe, it is xorg thing
* mhz_work used to use Debian from scratch
<mhz_work> and it was Xfree time
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> does the same with imps/2 and ps/2
<Petaris> odd
<mhz_work> Petaris: and when using a brand of mouse 'omega' (ps/2 optical cheap model), if i touchded the mouse, it would fly away and no respond anymore
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> very odd
<LaserJock> or maybe I should have asked here
<highvoltage> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> what should you have asked here?
<LaserJock> see -devel
<highvoltage> i'm not on -devel atm
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<LaserJock> tough luck then :)
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<LaserJock> debian isn't happy abut some ltsp changes
<highvoltage> aah
<highvoltage> are they ever? :)
<pygi> !!!
<ubotu> I know nothing about !! - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
<highvoltage> LaserJock: you have a link? or was it in a mailing list?
<pygi> ergh, this bot always do that
<LaserJock> pygi: you need to say something before the !!!! ;-)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: have no idea, ogra just mentioned it on -devel
<pygi> LaserJock: you mean after? :p
<LaserJock> before
<highvoltage> i'm interested to see what they're unhappy about, since ogra and mdz and crew were so cautios to do everythin in-line with debian policy
<highvoltage> ~
<highvoltage> ~ 
<pygi> HM,oki, then some things changed :P
<ogra> highvoltage, see #ltsp
<ogra> the discussion of the last 30 min
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> pygi: you need to say somethine before the !!! so the bot doesn't think you are talking to it
<ogra> vagrantc isnt happy about copying the sshkeys on every ifup we run 
<pygi> LaserJock: ofcourse, ofcourse :)
* pygi is just tired, sorry for that :)
<highvoltage> i see
<highvoltage> ogra: but there's not any security risk, is there? and it doesn't break any debian policy either.
<highvoltage> it's just a bit weird, and ltsp sometimes call for some weirdness.
<ogra> nope there is no risk ...
<ogra> apart from bugs that might be in the code ...
<mhz_work> highvoltage: have you seen the EPIC video about Googlezon?
<pygi> HedgeMage: poke
<HedgeMage> hiya pygi 
<pygi> whats wrong with your jabber? :P
<HedgeMage> PEBKAC
<Burgwork> ogra, do we have any specs for session cleanup and timing?
<ogra> timing ?
<Burgwork> controlling time
<ogra> you mean logging out a user after a specific given time ? 
<Burgwork> yep
<ogra> i have a tool from linus for that ...
<Burgwork> via integrating timeoutd
<ogra> but its not licensed 
<Burgwork> timeoutd is in the debian repos
<ogra> and he never answered my request ti give me a license ...
<ogra> hrm ...
<ogra> i'm not really fond of adding a new daemon for such a simple task ...
<ogra> also thats big enough to require a spec, s no edgy material
<Burgwork> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/admin/timeoutd
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> I understand that
<Burgwork> ultimately, you need a daemon to do session cleanup, however
<Burgwork> and process teardown, etc.
<ogra> does that work in any way with ssh tunneled sessions ?
<ogra> doesnt seem like
<Burgwork> hmm
<Burgwork> lets talk more indepth at the next ubuntu conference
<ogra>  timeoutd can restrict local users, local X11-users and remote users via
<ogra>  telnet/SSH for a maximum of their session, max. day, idle or no login at
<ogra>  all.
<ogra> aha
<ogra> so it can
<Burgwork> we can have a bof on edubuntu in a public computer environment
<ogra> that should become a SCP feature
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> can scp control what profiles are assigned to waht students? (via pessulus and sabayon)?
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/StudentControlPanelCompletion
* pygi thinks he doesn't have much more time to work on plugin feature :P
<Burgwork> so many things, so little time
<Burgwork> I also want to talk about sane ways for anonymous use
<Burgwork> currently DS does not create a user for each person that logs in
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gdm-guest-login ?
<Burgwork> perfect
<ogra> not approved
<LaserJock> ogra: I emailed one of the sabayon admins about what I'd like to do to see how feasible it is and possibly get some direction/help
<LaserJock> s/admins/developers/
<ogra> and ?
<LaserJock> haven't gotten a reply yet
<LaserJock> I sent it off this morning
<LaserJock> I'm a little concerned with the lack of activity, but that could be just because everybody is busy at red hat
<ogra> well, it should still be maintained
<LaserJock> It seems like a feature they'd be interested in having so I hope I can get them excited and I can provide patches
<LaserJock> but I'm don't think I can realisticlly do the whole thing by myself
* HedgeMage peeks in
<LaserJock> it seems like it will require some pretty large changes (handling more than one profile/user)
<ogra> well, lest see how far we get with upstream ... else lets look at our package :)
<LaserJock> ogra: I agree
<mhz> ogra: when you build an edubuntu cd,
<mhz> how do you tell (before) the total size it will have
<mhz> ?
<ogra> have a look at the germinate program
<ogra> (usually i'm not using it and guess by experience, but that tool is able to tell you exact sizes)
<mhz> ogra: okis, i'll take a look at
<mhz> oh, germinate does use python-apt
<mhz> python, python, python
<mhz> it is everywhere
<mhz> tsktsktsktsk
<mhz> highvoltage: still awake?
<mhz> ogra: http://www.unabvirtual.edu.co/epic/index.html
<LaserJock> mhz: that's because python rocks ;-)
<mhz> LaserJock: yeah, eventhough I am python (or any coding) ignorant, I know python rocks
#edubuntu 2006-07-21
<mhz> and rulz
<LaserJock> well, it's just much easier (for me anyway)
<LaserJock> I can get things done faster than if I was trying to do Fortran (the other language I know) ;-)
<mhz> yeah, print 'Hello world'
<ogra> Amaranth, ping
<Amaranth> ogra: pong
<ogra> Amaranth, the daemon isnt backgrounding itself ...
<Amaranth> oh whoops
<ogra> which makes the initscript hang ... which in turn makes the package uninstallable because the postinst never finishes :)
<Amaranth> having some power cord issues right now
<ogra> also you need to communicate via the system bus, not the session bus (including a services file in /etc/dbus-1/system.d/)
<Amaranth> i won't have a computer in about two hours
<ogra> oh
<Amaranth> power cord on my laptop died
<ogra> no replacement ?
<Amaranth> no
<ogra> thats evil
<Amaranth> i got two batteries instead
<Amaranth> brb
<mhz> ogra: is it me, or we dont have actually a knot1 for edubuntu?
<ogra> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/edgy/knot-1/
<mhz> oh, yeah but has it been anounced in ML?
<ogra> http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/ubuntu-cdimage/edubuntu/releases/edgy/knot-1/
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-July/000164.html
<ogra> yes
<mhz> hehehe
* mhz slaps himself then
<mhz> hmm, ogra but not in edubuntu ML, I mean
<ogra> ah right ...
* mhz is not in ubuntu-devel
<mhz> ogra: shall i make a quickie for Edubuntu ML?
<ogra> its devel-announce ... it gets about 5 messages a month
<mhz> heheh
<ogra> sure, do one ... link to the official announce :)
<mhz> sure
<mhz> and one in spanish too
<ogra> :)
* mhz hates to do stuff twice
<PeregrineSky> hi all, what does it take to upgrade from ubuntu dapper to edubuntu dapper?
<ogra> what do you want ? a workstation or a server ?
<PeregrineSky> i want a workstation
<Amaranth> stupid gnome-power-manager
<ogra> for the workstation install a sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop suffices
<PeregrineSky> ok
<Amaranth> charge light on the laptop wasn't on because the battery was 100% and g-p-m always said it was on battery
<ogra> Amaranth, what did it do ? 
<ogra> edgy ?
<Amaranth> dapper
<ogra> oh
<Amaranth> it just stuck saying it was on battery
<PeregrineSky> soon as the update is finished i will install the edubuntu-desktop
<Amaranth> rebooted into windows, saw that it was working fine, rebooted back to dapper
<ogra> i thik i saw a bug about it recently ...
<Burgwork> Amaranth, it is a HAL bug, apparently
<Amaranth> i have to unplug and replug the power once a day to make it show the right icon
<ogra> Burgwork, there is a patch for g-p-m upstream ...
<ogra> its a communication issue with hal
<Burgwork> ah, hal, the product described by the kernel devs as "an unmaintained pile of shit"
<Amaranth> i was _freaking out_
<ogra> its very well maintained ...
<Amaranth> Burgwork: davidz would disagree
<Burgwork> Amaranth, he made a joke about it recently
<Burgwork> see planet.gnome
<mhz> ogra: sent
* mhz unslaps himself this time
<jsgotangco> hey all
<Burgwork> hey jsgotangco 
<ogra> Amaranth, i found five issues i'd like to see adressed in willowng ...
<ogra>  * daemon needs to background itself
<ogra>  * frontend needs to connect to the systembus not the session bus 
<ogra>    (needs services file in /etc/dbus-1/system.d/)
<ogra>  * the GUI should have a UID 0 check
<ogra>  * gksudo should be added to the .desktop file
<ogra>  * we should ask AliasVegas if she has an idea for an icon
<ogra> apart from that its already a great tool :)
<Amaranth> UID 0 check?
<ogra> yes, "do i run as root?"
<Amaranth> if it isn't running as root it can't talk to the daemon (once the service file is in place)
<ogra> see student control panel ... it has a function for that ... (could be written cleaner though)
<Amaranth> although right now when it can't talk to the daemon it assumes it isn't running...
<ogra> if it communicates with the system bus ?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> i can restrict access to just the root user
<ogra> yeah, that would suffice
<ogra> drop that point then :)
<Amaranth> now i need to look into the standard for putting service files in the right place
<Amaranth> but first, food
<ogra> the packaging is very nice btw 
<Amaranth> thanks
<mhz> edubuntu-devel-es y ubuntu-cl MLs ... sent to all
<jsgotangco> wow mhz_off sent the annoucement!
<mhz_off> lol
<jsgotangco> man experiencing how good a tobacco tastes in the morning should be one of the experiences humans should not even miss even once
<Burgwork> jsgotangco, smoking will kill you
<jsgotangco> my grandfather died at 90 and was a chain smoker
<Burgwork> see, smoking killed him :)
<crimsun> I hear living will kill you, too.
<jsgotangco> well complications from diabetes killed him as well
<mhz> EULA's can kill you too
<mhz> esp. if they catch you 
<mhz> jsgotangco: and shakira's belly button can also give you a heart attack and so, kill you
<bddebian> Howdy
<ogra> Amaranth, iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p TCP --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination 127.0.0.1:8008
<ogra> thats the rule you need
<jsgotangco> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/5198238.stm
<Amaranth> ogra: cool
<Amaranth> how do i remove a rule from iptables?
<ogra> Amaranth, replacing -A with -D will switch it off
<Amaranth> ok
<Amaranth> how do i check to see if it's on?
<ogra> iptables -L -t nat |grep 8008
<ogra> there are surely more elegant ways ;)
<Amaranth> heh, that's good enough for me
<Amaranth> i found some daemon creation code too
<ogra> 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:25:15]  "GET /newsticker/meldung/75703 HTTP/1.1" 400 -
<ogra> 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:29:36]  code 400, message bad url /newsticker/meldung/75703
<ogra> 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:29:36]  "GET /newsticker/meldung/75703 HTTP/1.1" 400 -
<ogra> 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:29:40]  code 400, message bad url /
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> why does it cut off the domain ? 
<Amaranth> that's how it works
<Amaranth> you have a seperate Host header
<ogra> ah
<ogra> well, my browser is not happy
<Amaranth> what url?
<ogra> www.heise.de
<ogra> Message: bad url /.
<ogra> Error code 400.
<ogra> in fact i get that with any url
<Amaranth> all URLs are failing now?
<ogra> yep
<Amaranth> *boggle*
<Amaranth> what site did you go to before that started?
<ogra> none ...
<Amaranth> odd...
<Amaranth> oh, is this the first time you did the transparent proxy stuff?
<ogra> OperationalError: attempt to write a readonly database
<ogra> aha
<ogra> i ran it first with sudo
<Amaranth> oops
<ogra> well, the initscript will do the same :)
<Amaranth> yeah, that's fine
<Amaranth> but if you run it without sudo (without installing it) then run it without it can't open training.db
<ogra> sure
<ogra> but even if i run it with sudo it doesnt work ...
<ogra> hmm
<Amaranth> ok, transparent proxy no workie
<ogra> well ...
<ogra> it cant ... indeed
<Amaranth> i'll have to look into that
<ogra> nope
<ogra> its my rule 
<ogra> iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p TCP --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination 127.0.0.1:8008
<ogra> that means redirect *all*
<Amaranth> oh, so it goes into a fun loop
<ogra> packages with destination port 80 to 8008
<Amaranth> that the kernel must detect and break
<ogra> yeah
<Amaranth> probably need a second rule to make that not apply to willowng
<Amaranth> except it shows up in ps as 'python'
<ogra> the initscript has written a id file (if it works)
<ogra> *pid
<Amaranth> i don't know what all that is for anyway :P
<ogra> huh ? 
<Amaranth> the pid file
<Amaranth> like where does it go, for example
<ogra> to /var/run 
<ogra> it will be called willowng.pid and contain the pid :) 
<ogra> and iptables has a --pid-owner
<ogra> so we likely can exclude it from the rule
<Amaranth> well, my daemonize code doesn't work :P
<Amaranth> ah, it _only_ works if you run it as root
<Amaranth> makes sense
<Amaranth> it also created a training.db in / :P
<ogra> heh
* rodarvus returns from the hospital
<rodarvus> ogra: shouldn't you be in bed by now? :)
<ogra> well ...
<ogra> you know ...
<ogra> :)
<LaserJock> hmm, I think we covered that a few hours ago in -motu ;-)
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: what happened? check up?
<rodarvus> jsgotangco: unfortunately, not really - she is feeling a rather heavy pain on the left region of her belly
<Amaranth> daemon code now works good
<rodarvus> (she went through a surgery in this region, last month)
<Amaranth> checking to see how deskbar changes it's name in ps
<rodarvus> but it seems its only "gas" (does this word makes sense in english?)
<Laser_away> yep
<Amaranth> crap, it's a bit of C code
<Amaranth> score
<Amaranth> i've got some linux-specific but pure python code to do it
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: pretty bad gas inside her i'd say
<crimsun> she has C code inside her?
<crimsun> ouch.
<crimsun> oh, bad lag
<Amaranth> ogra: working on the dbus service file, then this should be ready to go
<ogra> cool
<ogra> i'll bzr pull if i get up
<Amaranth> ogra: http://dev.realistanew.com/releases/willowng/0.2/deb-src/
<Lord_Athur> bye
<sbalneav> Evening all
<bddebian> Hello sbalneav
<sbalneav> Quiet in here this evening.
<sbalneav> .....too quiet. :)
* sbalneav slaps a fresh battery in his phaser.
<jsgotangco> hey
<bddebian> heh
<lguerra> Hi
<mhz> cool, lguerra is in town
<mhz> Chile and Colombia in #edubutnu
<mhz> edubuntu
<arkan0x> \o/
<arkan0x> .:\o/:.
<Amaranth> are those stink lines?
<mhz> Amaranth: stink?
<mhz> ohhh
<Amaranth> smell
<mhz> the dots?
<mhz> arkan0x: rofl!
<mhz> Amaranth: i hope not
<mhz> esp. because I pictured they were cheerleaders
<bddebian> hehe
<arkan0x> jejeje
<bimberi> *\o/*  is a cheerleader
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> bimberi: nice, real nice
<bimberi> :)
<bimberi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon
<mhz> bimberi: it is a pity we can't see them cheering with their legs too :D
<bimberi> hehe
<Amaranth> *\o/*
<Amaranth>  |
<Amaranth> crap
<Amaranth> *\o/*
<Amaranth>    |
<Amaranth> bleh
<Amaranth> *\o/*
<Amaranth>   |
<Amaranth>  /\
<Amaranth> close enough
<bimberi>  / \
<jsgotangco> s('_^)-b
<bimberi> lol
<bimberi> now what did nixternal say - "that is one ooogly face"
* HedgeMage peeks in
<highvoltage> wow, ogra works long hours
* pygi tickles HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> heya
<HedgeMage> pygi: join #drupal  one of the trac devs is there talking about mod_python and other stuff
<mhz> highvoltage: ping
<mhz> HedgeMage: trac as in 'trac, the Moin based platform'?
<HedgeMage> trac as in some web svn thingy pygi likes
* mhz loves trac too
<pygi> HedgeMage: its actually more of a bug tracker
<HedgeMage> ahh :)
<mhz> highvoltage: a couple of friends on #edubuntu-es had a meeting a couple of hours ago and we want to translate the www.edubuntu.org site.
<mhz> highvoltage: so, we would like to have -if possible- the whole current site version installed at one of our devel servers (Chile) for a couple of weeks, so we can edit drupal there and get it back to you or anyone else once is ready
<mhz> pygi: i once wrote a Trac howto for Ubuntu
<mhz> highvoltage: so, is it possible we canhave that?
<pygi> mhz: ah :)
<mhz> if Trac used bzr, we would get some people crazy aroud here :D
<mhz> and Moin would kick more too
<pygi> mhz: it can use it (plugin) but the plugin itself i bad :P
* mhz is a Moin fan
<mhz> pygi: why is it bad?
<pygi> not supporting more then 700 revisions, being incomplete, bla, bla
<mhz> ooh
<mhz> very bad
<mhz> highvoltage: well, i gotta hit the bed
<mhz> highvoltage: see ya
<mhz> good night you all
<pygi> nn mhz
<mhz> and hope we see some faces in #ubuntu-meeting in a few hours
<Burgundavia> when is the edubuntu meeting?
<pygi> Burgundavia: 12:00 UTC
<Burgundavia> ugh, 5am
<Burgundavia> not happening
<Burgundavia> who created that graphical rsync script and does anyone have a copy for me>
<Burgundavia> ?
<bimberi_> cbx33 and no, sorry
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: it is cbx33
<Burgundavia> hmm
<highvoltage> eek, i missed mhz
<bimberi_> highvoltage: all the best with your new venture! (i scanned planet.ubuntu.com recently)
<highvoltage> bimberi_: thank you :)
<bimberi_> :)
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: sad to see that two schools got broken into, however
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: it seems that it's much more than two schools :(
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: although, only two of them were tuxlab schools.
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: you serious? are we talking a coordinated effort or just lost of random jerks?
<highvoltage> one of them doesn't have insuranceeither :/
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: it seems that it was at leat 20 schools in poor areas, seems like random jerks. this happened over the school holidays
<Burgundavia> desperate people do desperate things
<highvoltage> some people feel that it must have been an inside job in one of the tuxlab schools to a degree, because they only stole the most valueble stuff that aren't obvously valueble
<Burgundavia> what did they take?
<highvoltage> server, switches, and some workstations
<highvoltage> but it looks suspicious, because usually when a break in occurs it's just a few workstations that are stolen, no one ever touches a switch
<highvoltage> then again, it might have been some random troublemaker who knew a bit about what the stuff is worth.
<Burgundavia> random computer knowledge is more widespread that people might realize
* RichEd waves to all - mornin !
<pygi> morning RichEd
<Burgundavia> morning RichEd
<RichEd> greetz pygi  & Burgundavia :)
<RichEd> 'lo highvoltage - scanning back to see what prompted the school theft discussion
<Burgundavia> RichEd: if you have any comments on case studies for edubuntu, I am going to be working on one tomorrow night
<Burgundavia> RichEd: I read out it
<Burgundavia> read about it, rather
* pygi thinks he should attend doc team meeting today
<Burgundavia> pygi: that might be good
<RichEd> Burgundavia: i'm willing to help with the case study ... can you bang me a 1st draft and I will comment ?
<Burgundavia> RichEd: I don't even have enough for that, sadly
<RichEd> What specific topic / project is it for ?
<Burgundavia> tuxlabs
<RichEd> That's a broad topic :) Any specifics ... what is the angle / theme / pitch, who is it directed towards, where will it be published/circulated and finally what does it hope to achieve ??
<Burgundavia> how and why tuxlabs choose edubuntu
<Burgundavia> what they needed from an os and how edubuntu delivered that
<Burgundavia> the backside will be a section on what edubuntu is, in general terms (designed to be generic across all case studies)
<RichEd> great ... digesting ... thinking ... mmmmmm
<RichEd> okay how about this for an angle ... (was chatting to JaneW about this last night):
<RichEd> hypothesis: due to the limited resources (time, money, people) available in the education sector, if schools were able to standardise on a stable underlying o/s
<RichEd> which was free
<RichEd> and well intended in its long term aims 
<RichEd> and well supported by the following communities:
<RichEd> - developers
<RichEd> - kids
<RichEd> - teachers
<RichEd> - manufacuturers
<RichEd> then (1) it would free up people & resources to concentrate on educational content + applications
<Burgundavia> yep, that was the angle I was going for
<RichEd> (2) it would allow for standard training across schools
<Burgundavia> harp on the savings time, etc. and you will win
<RichEd> accross countries
<RichEd> and allow for a common base platform (in al metahphorical senses as well as an o/s sense)
<Burgundavia> I want this initial case study to be just a discussion of tuxlabs
<RichEd> for the building of the educational experience.
<RichEd> Burgundavia: Fine ... noted
<Burgundavia> what you are painting is a broader stroke, better for the backside (the generic stuff) than the specific story of how edubuntu worked in this case
<RichEd> But if we take the above as a theme, while you (with help) write this specific one ...
<RichEd> We can build on the message as we move forward. because NB:
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> when I send my case study, I will lay out general aims/etc, in my email
<RichEd> We can't be seen to be arrogant, or taking over ... however well intentioned ...
<Burgundavia> oh, I am perfectly ok with being arrogant.. ;)
<RichEd> But if we (as edubuntu) can lay a platform for OTHER people, our end-installers & end-users, like the tuXlabs people to make thier own statements / quotes along the lines of our theme ... then it will be a more gentle & subtle way of winning over people
<Burgundavia> yep
<RichEd> Burgundavia: i appreciate the witty comment (when you re good, you are allowed to be arrogant) ... but we need to win people over without appearing to have an agenda, or making them feel threatened.
<Burgundavia> :D
<RichEd> If we praised the skills of another Linux community, but said, look guys, we really think your skills are prefectly suited to build _xyz_ application, which will be a killer app that will allow linux to really penetrate ...
<RichEd> (perfectly) not prefectly
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: have any thoughts been put into edubuntu grid stuff?
<Burgundavia> I think a good short term goal would be to win over the makers of educational apps, either open source or not
<RichEd> So we'll share all of the info about our platform ... and we'll work together to build a wrap around educational environment ... bells & whistles ... wadda wadda wadda
<RichEd> (you get my point)
<RichEd> or convert other educational linux teams from writing o/s and steer them in the educational app direction ?
<RichEd> both approaches would be best ... nop ?
<Burgundavia> anything and everything
<Burgundavia> ideally, it would be nice for the skolelinux people and us to work more together
<RichEd> exactly: join together into a larger team, work out who is best at what, focus into smaller teams, match teams against the holistc educational requirements, and work & win together :)
<RichEd> achieve joint success & joint recognition
<RichEd> nd futher the underlying goals ... a better, cheaper education for all, spitting out more rounded student, better able to cope with the global economy
<RichEd> and <- nd
<RichEd> (and who understand that they can start or run a small busines, using IT for standard office & financial req. without having to pay for any licences
<RichEd> instead of the curent de facto view that a licence, with annual renewal fees, is a neccesary cost of business.
* RichEd stops preaching
<Burgundavia> heh
<RichEd> Burgundavia: richard.edubuntu@gmail.com <- feel free to send any ideas or comments or drafts here ...
<Burgundavia> sure
<RichEd> I presume you will ask highvoltage to do some quotes as a tuXlab admin ?
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<RichEd> I also have access to Will van de Leij (he's here locally with me in Cape Town) for input / revision
<RichEd> Deadline ? for "Distribution" ??
<Burgundavia> none
<RichEd> ahhh the best kind ;)
<RichEd> SABDFL has asked me to put together a focussed educational message we can end to govt. enquiries ... web site & .pdf
<RichEd> So we can work this together ... your case study will be a good component
<RichEd> send <- end
<Burgundavia> perfect
<Burgundavia> exactly what this is written for
* jsgotangco brain hurts on the scrollback
<RichEd> So you initiate the first email in the conversation, and I'll add comments from there, and draft a framework on how to hang it all together ...
<RichEd> We'll need to poke the value buttons of:
<RichEd> 1) end-users & admins (PULL)
<RichEd> 2) decision makers & funders (PUSH)
<RichEd> 3) govt. people tasked with FOSS conversion directives & goals (JOB SECURITY & RE-ELECTION)
<RichEd> that sort of thing. Make sense ?
<Burgundavia> selling linux is what I do everyday, so this is all I do all day
<RichEd> Burgundavia: explain more ... in spirit or in livelihood or both ... give me some real life context please ?
<jsgotangco> excellent you make a good salesman for userful then
<Burgundavia> I work for userful, selling our product, DiscoverStation
<jsgotangco> RichEd: he works for userful
<Burgundavia> except our stuff is closed source
* RichEd looks for the echo echo ...
<Burgundavia> well, mostly
<RichEd> url ?
<Burgundavia> www.userful.com
<RichEd> :) thanks ... never forget to try the obvious
<jsgotangco> he is actually sleeping with the enemy
<jsgotangco> or something
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: !!
<Burgundavia> yes, I sell FC based computers
<RichEd> jsgotangco: so did mata hari ... it can be useful :)
<jsgotangco> but then we dont do multiseat
<Burgundavia> I wish edubuntu did
<jsgotangco> would be a good roadmap
<RichEd> translations please: FC ? and by multi-seat you mean 1 CPU x 4 seats with kbd, mouse & display ?
<Burgundavia> would be interesting to mix fat clients, thin clients and multiseat stuff in a grid
<Burgundavia> fedora core and yes
<Burgundavia> like HP's 441
<RichEd> funny you should mention that ... i pushed 441's when i was with HP ...
<Burgundavia> the multiseat package in ubuntu was written for just that hardware
<drbollokovski> hi folks
<RichEd> but the new CEO culled the Emerging Market Solutions division ...
<jsgotangco> hello
<Burgundavia> userful's multiseat stuff is the most stable and flexible stuff available, and it still isn't that stable
<RichEd> which owned the product ...
<Burgundavia> that sucked
<RichEd> the official story is now as follows:
<RichEd> the 441 is not an HP supported product ... but ...
<RichEd> a VAR can buy the components, and assemble into a 441 like product ...
<RichEd> and supply to end users ...
<RichEd> but it will not be supported by HP.
<Burgundavia> our stuff is in Northwest province
<RichEd> And that is a dodgy (in all senses) solution ...
<Burgundavia> via omni
<RichEd> brb ... let me check my email on my old machine for some info ....
<RichEd> Burgundavia:  some off the record comments about HP &  linux staff ... pvt window okay ?
<Burgundavia> sure
<drbollokovski> could someone tell me please if it's possible to  set a root password on a box that has edubuntu installed ( my kids will break the install if i cant do it"
<RichEd> drbollokovski: as a pretty new user can i make comment ... most serious stuff needs a password and SU clearance
<RichEd> they won't be able to mess around too much without that password
<drbollokovski> RichEd: my kids are CLEVER, my 6 year old took down her schools entire network
<RichEd> wow ... that really redefines clever ;)
<RichEd> (joke)
<RichEd> let me hunt around a bit ... for an answer ... will be back
<drbollokovski> ty
<jsgotangco> yes you can set a root password
<jsgotangco> just do sudo passwd root
<drbollokovski> that simple? 
<drbollokovski> damn thank you
* drbollokovski is dumb sometimes
<jsgotangco> its alright there's always a chance to learn something everyday
<jsgotangco> so dont say that its a dumb thing not to know it =)
<RichEd> dumb is only if you ask the same thing twice ...
<RichEd> i found this while you were getting the short answer: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October/007001.html
<jsgotangco> is there a good reason why to use the root account?
<jsgotangco> yeah if you want to lock it up again just do sudo passwd -l root
<drbollokovski> aha thanks gents
<jsgotangco> cheers
<drbollokovski> jsgotangco: yea there is i wanna be able to lock them out good 'n proper
<jsgotangco> -l is lock, -u is unlock
<drbollokovski> she's 6 and she got herself into the scvhools winblows 2k3 server as admin
<jsgotangco> wow
<drbollokovski> i think i have created a monster, she has always sat on my lap watching what i do, and apparently drinking it all in
<jsgotangco> my 4 year old got to program our dvd player before
<drbollokovski> heheh
<jsgotangco> as far as i remember i was playing in the streets at the age :/
<drbollokovski> it's great when you realise what they are actually capable of :D
<drbollokovski> hehe
<RichEd> well get her to joint the Edubuntu commnity then ... redirect that energy & enthusiasm in a positive direction :)
<drbollokovski> yeah i was running around barefoot on the farm at that age, but i suppose our kids have an advantage because they are a LOT mor famniliar with electronics that we were
<RichEd> drbollokovski: google search tip if you don't know it ... use the following tag: [+site:ubuntu.com etc. etc. ]  with your search ... will return results from all ubuntu sites: wiki.ubuntu com www.ubuntu.com help.ubuntu.com etc.
<drbollokovski> cool thanks RichEd , i knew about the +site: bit but not that you could specify a tld in it
<drbollokovski> and now to idle here and learn tricks :)
* RichEd demonstrates how to balance a pen on hsi nose
<RichEd> hsi <- hist
* drbollokovski demonstrates how to breathe fire
<drbollokovski> hist eh?
* RichEd steps back
* drbollokovski pokes RichEd with a stick
<drbollokovski> :P
<RichEd> me jumps back safely into non-agressive email
<RichEd> (work to do)
* drbollokovski bombards RichEd with pacifist spam email
* jsgotangco nukes you all
* pygi evades
<jsgotangco> have a good friday all
<pygi> enjoy jsgotangco
<RichEd> hello - JaneW is this a better environment than "piers place" :)
<JaneW> RichEd, definately
<ogra> :)
<pygi> hey JaneW
<JaneW> hey pygi
* JaneW may have made a huge mistake leaving... :(((
<highvoltage> Burgwork: sorry, been away. edubuntu grid stuff?
<pygi> JaneW: :-/
<ogra> JaneW, then come back :)
<highvoltage> hi JaneW, RichEd, and Burgwork  :)
* pygi agrees with ogra :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: not enjoying new job?
<JaneW> ogra: seriously I wish I could...
<ogra> yu can, just do it :)
<RichEd> hi highvoltage 
<ogra> i'm sure silbs would agree :)
<JaneW> ogra: sure, if I didn't need a salary I would!
<highvoltage> JaneW: we will need someone with your kind of skills real soon, if you're interested I can talk to the others about it
<JaneW> ogra, no she wouldn't.
<RichEd> ogra: there is this policy against hiring family members ... see if you can reverse that
<ogra> argh, right ... i forgot about that ...
<JaneW> RichEd, or I could dis-own you :P
<ogra> divorce ?
<JaneW> (joking)
* RichEd is not ready to divorce JaneW for work reasons jsut yet ;)
<JaneW> haha
<ogra> *g*
<JaneW> highvoltage, sure
<JaneW> highvoltage, awesome stickers btw!
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'll PM you
* RichEd remembers the silver "powered by Ubuntu" sticker comment from JaneW last night and waits in line for one for his new notebook 
* RichEd hope highvoltage is making JaneW a job offer in that private window (and not any other kind of offer;)
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> RichEd: ;)
<rodarvus> good morning
<RichEd> 'lo rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hi RichEd!
<JaneW> RichEd, for me to know and you to find out... :P
<kihai> Hi y'all!
<jsgotangco> hi!
<isheep> is this (6.06) the first edubuntu version?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> 5.10 was
<isheep> hm oke i would like to collect the (shipit-)cd's do you know who i should contact for a 5.10 version?
<ogra> there was no shipit version in 5.10 
<ogra> for shipit 6.06 was the first one ... 5.10 was download only and no live CD
<isheep> ah oke thanks :)
<isheep> what app should i use for my ipod?
<jsgotangco> try banshee
<bddebian> Hello
<Yagisan> woo, laggy goodness. running vmware over a ltsp setup
* Yagisan needs more client side acceleration, esp video
<drbollokovski> yagisan which gfx have you got?
<eltonlima> Boa Tarde Galera !!!!
<ogra> *sigh* why did i ask iwj at all ...
<mhz> ogra?
<ogra> in -devel ...
<mhz> oh
<mhz> ogra: you asked because you did the right thing
<ogra> obviously not ...
<Yagisan> drbollokovski: on this box, vesa.
<Yagisan> and it won'tr be changed anytime soon
* jsgotangco hugs ogra
<ogra> jsgotangco, thanks, that was needed :)
<jsgotangco> im in the middle of a job transfer so i couldn't do much at the moment, and currently sorting out things in our loco
<ogra> iwj is my bane ...
<jsgotangco> i can see that clearly
<ogra> i cant get a simple answer to a simple question without having a discussion about the underlying principles ... no matter *what* i actully ask
<ogra> i'd so love to understand why it is that way
<jsgotangco> i notice that most of the time
<jsgotangco> stuff like answerable to yes you can do it, no you cant
<ogra> i notice that since i first met iwj, i'm just wondering how to revole it 
<ogra> *resolve
<mhz> ogra: give hi love :)
<mhz> him
<mhz> "love is the answer"
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> crap!
<ogra> thats what i'm trying since the first day ...
<mhz> ogra: I could send him a T-Shirt?
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> or, get him a date
<ogra> i think we both realized that we clash on tech stuff .... even though we like each other as persons ...
<mhz> hmm
<ogra> but thats no base to work with each other
<mhz> 1st time I see that
<ogra> since we need to discuss tech stuff ...
<jsgotangco> the repeated caps are uncalled for though
<ogra> well, there it was already to late i think
* Yagisan waves to HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> Hiya, Yagisan :)
* pygi tickles HedgeMage
* HedgeMage laughs
* HedgeMage gets some anti-tickling spray and aims it at pygi 
* pygi prepares for evading
* mhz laughs!
* Yagisan grabs pygi, so HedgeMage can aim better >:)
* pygi kicks Yagisan and runs away :P
* Yagisan is glad it missed any tender spots
* HedgeMage watches pygi trip over mhz and fires while she has a chance.
* pygi is confused?
* pygi runs
<HedgeMage> pygi: soaked you with that anti-tickling spray :P
<pygi> HedgeMage: nah, I evaded :)
<HedgeMage> that's what they all say :P
<pygi> HedgeMage: lol
<mhz> rofl
<mhz> RPGs in Edubuntu
<mhz> or shoot'em all?
* ogra wonders why pygi is so wet
<mhz> ogra: because he also had an episode with iwj :D
<mhz> (that was mean)
<mhz> :S
<pygi> mhz: !!!!
<mhz> sorry, I just could not help my latin sense of humour
* HedgeMage is afraid to ask what "iwj" stands for
<pygi> hehe, no need to appologise :P
<HedgeMage> hi Seveas 
<pygi> HedgeMage: person I take it
<HedgeMage> ahh
<mhz> yup
<jsgotangco> HedgeMage: ian w. jackson
* HedgeMage continues to be confused, not that that's anything new
<ogra> HedgeMage, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-devel-current.html it starts at 04:57
<pygi> ogra: and shouting :P
<jsgotangco> HedgeMage: he's ogra's co-worker, former DPL and dpkg creator (or co-creator)
<pygi> You seem to get in a lot of trouble lately ogra :)
<ogra> pygi, only with iwj
<jsgotangco> he's a really nice guy, but he can be so passionate about stuff
<jsgotangco> the the point that it makes an impression to some people who haven't met him personally
<ogra> it could have gone fine if it had stopped at 04:59
<pygi> hehe :)
<HedgeMage> ogra: ahh :)
* mhz is still reading what ogra DOES NOT WANT ;)
<pygi> mhz: :P
<highvoltage> pygi: people like ogra and I are always in trouble;)
<ogra> highvoltage, well, i dont get in trouble with any other of my colleagues
<mhz> highvoltage: hi there, could you read my request on drupal ?
<highvoltage> mhz: where?
<ogra> and i'd love to not have that probem with iwj ... that one of the reasons why i still try to overcome it by asking him stuff and confronting us with it ...
<ogra> but that doesnt work out it seems
<mhz> highvoltage: oh, about 9 hours ago, this channel :)
<highvoltage> ogra: I'm not sure what you're refering to (I'll read a bit of backlog)
<highvoltage> mhz: my away log doesn't seem to work, so i missed it :/
<mhz> ogra: Yagisan is an expert n security issues, BTW
<ogra> highvoltage, see the url i pasted abouve ... the -devel log
<mhz> and he's able to answer yes, no
* highvoltage reads
<ogra> mhz, well, i have my response 
<mhz> indeed
<ogra> mhz, even it wasnt pleasant *how* i got it
<mhz> no pain, no gain
<mhz> oh, then, 'no iwj, no gain' :D
* mhz is happy we are far from October releasing date, else, ogra  might have been killed by over stress or have kicked iwj ;)
<ogra> mhz, no, im calm ... a bit sad probably but not excited or something ...
<highvoltage> ogra: i can't find it on that page :/
<ogra> highvoltage, my discussion with iwj
<highvoltage> there's not an iwj on that entire page.
* highvoltage tries previous day logs
<mhz> highvoltage: hhehe, nop
<ogra> highvoltage, hmm
<ogra> highvoltage, youre right, thats the log from -motu suddenly
<ogra> somehow the first half is -devel and the second one is -motu
<pygi> it wasnt that way few secs ago?
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, it's quite strange :)
<mhz> highvoltage: paste it to pm
<mhz> and I get * [highvoltage]  is away (closed IRC window because IRC is evil and counter-productive)
<HedgeMage> ogra: I resigned from staff, not my job any more :P
<ogra> oh
* ogra didnt know
<ogra> so you have more time for the handbook :) great :D
<ogra> ;)
<highvoltage> that was a nasty netsplit
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, IRC is evil and counter-productive :)
<mhz> rofl
<mhz> highvoltage: you could get my pm?
<mhz> before netsplit
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, just before the netsplit
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<HedgeMage> ogra: hey, I told you once handbook is squared away I want to start on dev tasks
<ogra> yeah !
<ogra> :)))
<mhz> highvoltage: so, is it possible?
<pygi> HedgeMage: isnt the meeting 19:00 utc today?
<highvoltage> mhz: yep
<mhz> thx mon!
<mhz> we are only 4 guys
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
<highvoltage> ogra: I've been wondering about the exporting of / ro we discussed yesterday.
<mhz> so, 3 will work on drupal info, I will edit it. And I will take care of ESA, Marketing stuff for Edubuntu and try to finally help in E.Handbook
<highvoltage> is it really more insecure than a normal ltsp network? because anyone who can log in can already see / on the server?
<mhz> and together, start seriously work on specs for Edubuntu Study Content
<highvoltage> mhz: ecellent :)
<ogra> highvoltage, well it relies on nfs being not broken etc
* mhz is still unsure about exelearning v/s apt for educontents
<highvoltage> ok, you mean in terms of an NFS exploit?
<ogra> imagine a bug that wipes the content of the underlying FS
<highvoltage> ouch
<ogra> with /opt/ltsp you wont kill your server
<ogra> also how would you handle multiple chroots ?
<ogra> i.e. two i386 roots tailored for certain things and one ppc chroot
<highvoltage> ogra: what do you mean? why would I need multiple chroots?
<ogra> highvoltage, ask in #ltsp ... seems to be a very widespread setup
<highvoltage> couldn't I just have different runlevels (or init scripts) for that?
<ogra> no
<ogra> ppc binaries are still not executable on i386
<highvoltage> ok, I meant for the 386's at least.
<highvoltage> so for PPC at least you could have a chroot inside the main /
<highvoltage> i suppose that's unavoidable
<highvoltage> but at least you don't have duplication of i386 binaries
<ogra> you cut down customizability
<highvoltage> hmm... what if you pass an init=/bin/ltspinit to the terminal and have custom scripts to start that up?
<highvoltage> then you could have a real lean client machine, which is even more customisable than our current ones.
<highvoltage> where ltspinit would run our own ltsp init scripts, of course
<ogra> well, discuss it with jammcq and sbalneav ... as long as we want to take over upstream we wont get around te separate chroot
<ogra> thats a very hackish solution 
<ogra> we should use debian policy compliant initscripts ... and not hacked up ones that start up others
<highvoltage> i don't understand what's too hacking about it, for me it sounds less hacky than current methods, but ok, I'll take it up with scott and jim :)
<highvoltage> ah, i see. debian compliancy.
<ogra> also we need to maintain backwards compatibility and upgradeability
<ogra> (if we take over upstream that means for all distros as well as for ltsp.org)
* ogra is afk for a while
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, thanks for explaining. that gives me some more to think about. I will find a way to make it work, and make it Debian compliant. I am determined about this.
<highvoltage> (not necasarily the / sharing, but avoiding the duplication of binaries, it's anti-unix, afaiac)
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<pygi> HedgeMage: meeting in a minute?
<mhz> Marketing meeting is on #ubuntu-meeting
<LaserJock> HedgeMage and pygi: you watching -doc?
<pygi> LaserJock: I am
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: about to, I just got back
<pygi> mhz: I know, cookbook meeting should be there now :P
<LaserJock> pygi: I thought it was after the doc team meeting/
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: am now
<mhz> after?
<pygi> ergh, right LaserJock
<pygi> 21:30 UTC
<HedgeMage> pygi: no, cookbook is in two hours.
<pygi> sorry :P
<mhz> HedgeMage: handbook or cookbook ?
<mhz> :D
<HedgeMage> mhz: handbook
<HedgeMage> sorry
<HedgeMage> my poor brain
* mhz feels so fool, he knows there was a handbook meeting today but as he did not see it in /topic, he forgot
<pygi> HedgeMage: jabber pls
<HedgeMage> one sec getting lip balm my lips are sun burnt
<HedgeMage> my poor lips :(
* mhz had read LISP ;)
<LaserJock> hehe
<HedgeMage> rofl
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: you still lurking in -doc?
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: yep, though I somewhat lost track of the convo when I got a phone call
<HedgeMage> what did I miss?
<LaserJock> hehe, stuff
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: Grr, another phone call.  If anything else comes up that I should notice, please hilight me
<Burgwork> somebody pinged me?
<LaserJock> not sure, but the doc meeting is going on if you haven't seen
<cbx33> hi all
<pygi> morning cbx33
<cbx33> mornin?
<cbx33> evenin here
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<mhz> him cbx33 
<mhz> hi
<cbx33> hi mhz 
<LaserJock> cbx33: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?start=20
<cbx33> :D:D
<cbx33> does that mean?
<LaserJock> that the NEW queue
<LaserJock> I put in a good word for it to infinity so maybe it'll get done soon ;-)
<cbx33> :D:D
<cbx33> thanks LaserJock 
<cbx33> who's good on classical music here
<mhz> you mean from the 'classic' period? or musica docta?
<cbx33> I need to know the name of the beethoven peice that is the title track to the film beethoven
<ogra> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000008DBZ/104-8518211-3739151?v=glance&n=5174 
<ogra> ?
<cbx33> yeh I saw that
<cbx33> but none of those track titles are a beethoven piece, just bits from the film
<cbx33> :(
<ogra> are you sure you mean that movie ? 
<ogra> not amadeus ?
<cbx33> yes that movie
<cbx33> I'm sure
<mhz> cbx33: but none of that listing is beethoven
<cbx33> I know
<cbx33> that's what I'm saying, I know there is a well known beethoven track used in that film
<Amaranth> ogra: did you get the link to my package?
<mhz> exit
<cbx33> exit?
<mhz> sorry, wrong tab :)
<HedgeMage> cbx33: Bethoven's Fifth Symphony... but I wouldn't call it a track, more like a half-dozen notes ;)
* mhz is using fluxbox now and got used to ion2 keys
<ogra> Amaranth, nope
<mhz> HedgeMage: hehehe
<Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/releases/willowng/0.2/deb-src/
<ogra> Amaranth, i had a heavy diasussion about transparent proxying today btw
<Amaranth> eh?
<LaserJock> mhz: flux? poor guy
<ogra> with iwj
<mhz> LaserJock: why? dont like efficiency?
<ogra> seems the whole distro team is not fond of transparent proxying .... so we should just close port 80 and set the global gconf settings for the proxy server
<LaserJock> mhz: nah, you need a real wm like openbox ;-)
<Amaranth> ack
<mhz> ogra: is not 'transparent' 
<Amaranth> does firefox listen to the gconf settings?
<mhz> :D
<Amaranth> does apt?
<ogra> mhz, GRR
<ogra> Amaranth, afaik yes
<mhz> ogra: you know, my 'transparent' latin sense of humour...just cant help it
<mhz> :)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<ogra> it was just a *very* unpleasant discussion ...
<Amaranth> so when the check is ticked we block off port 80 (for all but willowng) and set the debconf and gconf proxy settings?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> without any internal iptables forwarding/redirect
<ogra> it seems thats done better with a special user ... so we should have a willowng user that runs the backend ...
<ogra> instead of using the process id
<Amaranth> ok
<Amaranth> out of my league, i think :)
* mhz will miss a great session with baristas, to try some coffee flavors...just to be in Handbook meeting...so please , do not cancel it
<ogra> Amaranth, well, your league is to add a user from your preinst and to make sure willowng is run by it from the initscript :) i'll care for the firewalling
<Amaranth> just useradd willowng?
<ogra> look at other packages that do it 
<Amaranth> oh man, i don't want to look at apache :P
<ogra> cupy for example
<ogra> *cups
<HedgeMage> mhz: We won't and we love you for picking us over coffee :)
<ogra> hmm, willown doesnt start ...
<Amaranth> with the 0.2 package?
<pygi> mhz: uh :(
<Amaranth> works for me
<ogra> ah, sorry, my fault
<pygi> mhz: I'll miss sleep :P
<pygi> but I guess your thing is more important
<mhz> HedgeMage: thx for the understanding
<ogra> Amaranth, hm
* ogra purges the old stuff
<Amaranth> oh wow, cups uses cdbs
<ogra> pitti maintains it 
<mhz> pygi: yeah, i prefer missing sleeping. I am so fan of good coffee... and this is only once a week. Anyways, as long as we dont cancel that meeting, coffee baristas can wait. Edubuntu needs more love than baristas.
<ogra> he's a big cdbs fan
<pygi> mhz: we wont cancel it, I just dont know how much people will attend
<Amaranth> i can't find anything in here about adding a user though
<mhz> HedgeMage: however, if Shakira were in the baristas session, I would have not chosen you guys, sorry
<Amaranth> i checked all the .preinst files and rules
<HedgeMage> mhz: hehehe :)
<ogra> postinst ? 
* HedgeMage smooches mhz 
<mhz> smooch?
* mhz hides behind a wet pygi :D
<Amaranth> ah, found it
* pygi took a towel before :P
<ogra> Amaranth, ok, works fine with the new package ... i had broken stuff lying around
<HedgeMage> mhz: smooch == a kiss on the cheek
<mhz> HedgeMage: thx, I love kisses
<HedgeMage> :D
<ogra> Amaranth, you should probably have some info about the port in the UI :)
<Amaranth> ogra: why does a user need to change the port? :)
<ogra> i.e. a small explanation which port is used under the "enable proxy" checkbx
<ogra> i didnt say it needs to be changeable :)
<Amaranth> and instant-apply + port text entry == ouch
<Amaranth> oh, ok
<ogra> i just had to look up the portnumber myself yesterday in the code ;)
<Amaranth> i think 8008 is an apache thing
<Amaranth> i should find a better port
<Amaranth> 53957 should work :)
<ogra> not so high ...
<ogra> 7990 
<ogra> 9111
<Amaranth> what's the difference?
<ogra> 8563
<ogra> its common to use a four digit number ...
<ogra> might be there is a policy, not sure ...
<mhz> HedgeMage: i have read the https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuHandbook/EdgyOutline
<Amaranth> ok
<mhz> HedgeMage: can I give you a Moin tip?
<Amaranth> 8563 for proxy, 8568 for web frontend (coming soon maybe)
<ogra> ok
<ogra> check /etc/services that its not taken by anything ...
<HedgeMage> mhz: go for it
<HedgeMage> I don't do much wikispeak so I'm sure I could use tips :)
<mhz> whenever you want readers to know you were there, or just sign a comment (like editors note), you can use this syntax @SIG@, and then save the page. This will place a nice timestamp with your name there.
<ogra> Amaranth, why do you use a control.in file ? thats quite ugly
<HedgeMage> ahh cool
<Amaranth> ogra: neither show up in there
<HedgeMage> Thanks!
<Amaranth> ogra: i dunno
<mhz> HedgeMage: yw (least I can do after such great kiss :D)
<ogra> please try to keep away from that unless you want team maintenance :)
<ogra> its helpful if te maintainers list is generated ... but thats the only reason to use a .in file there
* HedgeMage smooches mhz again
<mhz> ogra: we can't use moin @sig@ ?
<ogra> why ?
<mhz> HedgeMage: hey! I got tons of tips!! :D
<mhz> heheh
<HedgeMage> hehe :)
<pygi> :P
<pygi> HedgeMage: jabber
<mhz> ogra: you did nto mean my comment, sorry
<HedgeMage> brb, I need to snag some lunch before the meeting or I'll keep snacking on junk food
<ogra> Amaranth, we also have a new policy that programs that dont need them shouldnt have stop scripts ...
<ogra> so drop the 6 and 0 from postinst 
<Amaranth> i have no idea how to do that
* pygi tickles HedgeMage again :P
<ogra> remove 0 and 6 from the update-rc.d line :)
<Amaranth> ah, that bit of magic that you gave me :)
<mhz> pygi: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuHandbook/EdgyOutline, what else should I be reading before meeting?
* pygi looks whats there
* mhz just wanna be prepared for meeting
<ogra> Amaranth, but only if you are sure that wont break ... i.e. if willowng needs to write to the DB or something from the initscript, make sure it can do that
<Amaranth> I haven't had any problems with killing it randomly.
<mhz> pygi: oh, i gotta get a chocolate for the coffee I'll make for meeting. I'll be back in 12 minutes
<Amaranth> sqlite3 does transactions so it should be safe
<ogra> and if we want it in main (which we want at some point) it needs to use the lsb_init functions instead of echo in the initscript
<pygi> mhz: ok
* pygi tickles HedgeMage
<ogra> ok, then just drop 0 and 6
<pygi> HedgeMage: this stuff of Edgy Outline is so outdated
<Amaranth> *grumble*
<pygi> that might be my fault tho
<Amaranth> dh_make should generate a good initscript then
<ogra> dh_make is not lsb compliant :)
<ogra> (neither is any other script we have... thats manual work)
<ogra> but sounds like a good project for a bored one ;)
<HedgeMage> pygi: what's outdated?
<pygi> HedgeMage: well, the outline?
<pygi> it misses many chapters :P
<HedgeMage> pygi: how so? I thought it was up to date on what we said last meeting and the one before
<cbx33> HedgeMage, thanx
<HedgeMage> I could be wrong, of course.
<cbx33> brb
<HedgeMage> cbx33: np
<pygi> HedgeMage: we didnt had (and I dont see anything new) update-ssh-keys on that and we wont have it here according to outline?
<HedgeMage> pygi: IIRC that's not needed any more... at least there was some talk about a patch regarding it on the mailing list.
<ogra> Amaranth, i'll upload it ... just make sure you do the changes above in the next time ...
<HedgeMage> brb, really do need food before the meeting or I'll be forced to binge on greasy potato chips or something
<pygi> HedgeMage: it's needed, (actually it isnt), but perhaps that will have to be dropped
<pygi> it misses many chaps it seems
<HedgeMage> what else is missing?
<pygi> I cant say now, I'm sleeping :P
<HedgeMage> lol ok
<HedgeMage> good night :)
<HedgeMage> *** Eduuntu Handbook meeting in 10 minutes ***
* HedgeMage thinks she lost a 'b' somehow
<pygi> HedgeMage: well, I will attend meeting, but I am still sleeping :P
<ogra> Amaranth, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
<ogra> its in NEW
<Amaranth> yay
<ogra> :D
<Amaranth> shower time,  back later
<pygi> HedgeMage: meeting
<HedgeMage> pygi: trying to start... doesn't seem anyone's awake in there
<HedgeMage> mhz: meeting?
<pygi> HedgeMage: any chance you know how can I recover my pass? :P
<HedgeMage> pygi: just ping any staffer
<pygi> HedgeMage: how could I do that when I cant pm? :P
<HedgeMage> staff get pms from unregistered users
<mhz> pygi: afaik, rob is staff
<pygi> mhz: I wouldnt know who that is :P
<mhz> rob on #ubuntu
#edubuntu 2006-07-22
* pygi tickles HedgeMage
* HedgeMage sprays pygi 
<pygi> tickles*
<pygi> ergh, damn, I am sleeping :P
<pygi> okay, enjoy all
<pygi> I go to sleep now :P
<HedgeMage> night night :)
<mhz_> RichEd: got my email?
<bddebian> Howdy
<mhz> re
<bddebian> wb mhz
<mhz> thx, bddebian 
<sbalneav> Evening all
<bddebian> Heya sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey there bddebian \
<sbalneav> How's things this evening?
<bddebian> Fair to midland thanks.  You?
<sbalneav> Sittin' by the dock of the bay :)
<sbalneav> Hackin' on LTSP :)
<bddebian> Nice
<mhz> hacking on LTSP?
<mhz> interesting?
<mhz> looking better performance?
<sbalneav> Thats one of the things I'm looking at.
<sbalneav> The goal from LTSP's point of view is to merge our functionality in with Edubuntu's LTSP implementation, and convert over our development model to the MueKow model.
<sbalneav> Then, help Fedora to get it included on their distro.
<mhz> hmm, sbalneav, sorry, I am not familiar with MueKow model
<sbalneav> That's what Edubuntu uses.
<sbalneav> Building LTSP using the distro's own packages.
<mhz> that is 'muekow' ?
<mhz> nice
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: are there packages of willowng floating  around?
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: sitting in NEW last i heard
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: ah, very nice
<mhz> For those interested...
<mhz> http://www.eschoolnews.com/eti/2006/05/001414.php
<mhz> http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php/Setting_Up_a_Sugar_Development_Environment_on_Ubuntu_Linux
<mhz> That is OneLaptopPerChild
<mhz> Sugar
<vertozia999> helllo
* pygi got his hosting finally. yay :)
<Burgundavia> pygi: what are you hosting?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<Napalm_Death> hi
<Napalm_Death> what is the default password in the livecd?
<Napalm_Death> my niece was playing in tuxpaint
<Napalm_Death> and i dont know how it appear a screen  asking for login and pass
<Napalm_Death> jsgotangco ?
<jsgotangco> SCUUUMMMMM
<jsgotangco> =)
<jsgotangco> it does?
<Napalm_Death> :)
<jsgotangco> not sure just try ubuntu
<Napalm_Death> it asks for the Linux user
<jsgotangco> ubuntu
<Napalm_Death> i'll check
<jsgotangco> sorry im not sure either. I *rarely* try the livecd
<bimberi> Napalm_Death: iirc the account is 'ubuntu' with no password.  You can set one with 'sudo passwd ubuntu'
<Napalm_Death> ahh
<Napalm_Death> it asks for the Linux password i thought the username was Linux
<Napalm_Death> anyway can't try now
<Napalm_Death> thanks
<Napalm_Death> but
<Napalm_Death> iirc=?
<jsgotangco> if i recall correctly
<Napalm_Death> ahh
<Napalm_Death> i'm in irc.ptnet.org
<Napalm_Death> bye
<bimberi> thanks for interpeting jsgotangco :)
<bddebian> Hello
* Yagisan watches the tumbleweeds blow past
<melle> hello, is it possible to play a .vob file (DVD) on Edubuntu?
<melle> Weet iemand hier misschien welk programma ik nodig ben om een .vob file aftespelen? het is een sample file van een DVD
<Yagisan> melle: english here
<Yagisan> melle: and yes
<melle> sorry wrong channel :)
<Yagisan> hmm, I wonder
<Yagisan> !restrictedformats
<ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats  -  See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html  -  But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<Yagisan> melle: try the first link
<melle> Yagisan: Awsome thanks
<Yagisan> no worries
<melle> Sorry for the rejoining :) kinda new to linux and i keep switching terminals hehe.. well im done now.
<Viper550> Hello
<Viper550> Does anyone think that the default theme on Edubuntu 6.06 looks a bit ugly?
<cbx33> hey Viper550 
<LaserJock> no, it's the most beautiful thing ever ;-)
<Viper550> o rly?
<cbx33> What brings you to the edubuntu channel
<cbx33> LaserJock, hiya dude
<Viper550> I gathering suggestions for Edubuntu Edgy's default theme
<LaserJock> cbx33: I'm guessing he wants to complain about our "professional" artwork ;-)
<Viper550> It's only one part that brought the whole train down on Edubuntu Dapper
<Viper550> The Wallpaper.
<LaserJock> Viper550: have you talked to the Edubuntu "Artist in Chief"?
<Viper550> where is he?
<cbx33> She
<cbx33> is just sending an email out to the artwork list
<mhz> hehhe, "ugly" is so subjective, unfrotunatelly. For many people I have showed Edubuntu, they like it. For others, red is not their favourite color and suggest the typical blue ;)
<Viper550> The green wallpaper doesn't go good with the red and dark orange theme
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> many here (me included) did not like the chalkboard idea
<Viper550> That's what brought the whole train down, alone EdubuntuColors looks pretty nice
<LaserJock> Viper550: well, there's a story for that
<Viper550> My idea was to change the chalkboard to be black
* mhz uses lighter desktops, so he is not very uncomfortable :D
<LaserJock> Viper550: the background was sprung on us sort of last minute. We had no choice
<Viper550> Oh...
<mhz> Viper550: please do so
<Viper550> I sent it to the ubuntu-art list already
<mhz> LaserJock: plus... artwork in general for edubuntu was all  a mystery
<LaserJock> Viper550: our new head artist contributed a nice background that is also shipped with Edubuntu
<mhz> I remember offering help, asking about it, poking a bit, etc....no ideas
<Viper550> I know, the Homies one looks pretty nice
<LaserJock> yeah, that's the one
<mhz> ya mon
<mhz> thatz tha one
<Viper550> But, I'm concerned about what they get out of the box AS DEFAULT
* mhz too
<cbx33> Viper550, well
<cbx33> as we're in control of that this release, it gives us chance to really shine
* mhz is preparing artwork material for Chilean edubuntu users/lab ;)
<LaserJock> Viper550: anyway, hopefully real soon the art team will hear from our Artist-in-Chief any you guys can hash out some good artwork for edgy
<cbx33> AliasVegas has just sent a post to the list
<LaserJock> ah good
<Viper550> I saw it just now
* mhz syncs email client
<cbx33> Hey LaserJock, have you used ogras script lately?
<LaserJock> no, I haven't done *anything* put packaging support for the last 2 days
<cbx33> for syncing?
<Viper550> Higher-Education eh? Like something for High School?
<cbx33> ok
<LaserJock> that and trying to figure out emacs
<cbx33> Viper550, yes and university
<cbx33> Viper550, I'm able to answer these questions because AliasVegas is my wife, incase you didn't know
<cbx33> :p
<Viper550> Yeah, maybe this higher education theme should aim towards Gen X
* mhz thinks all edubuntu members should have an alias  '@edubuntu.org'
<cbx33> mhz, we do
<cbx33> well I have one :p
<mhz> AliasVegas is not an edubuntu member?
<cbx33> yes she is
<Viper550> Generation X likes pimping' out stuff, and if they can have a pre-pimped desktop that looks pretty cool...it would be the time of their life!
<LaserJock> it's also in an educational setting so it probably can't be too wild
<cbx33> LaserJock, too true
<mhz> indeed
<cbx33> we need a nice solid theme that sets the scene
<Viper550> I know, maybe we should go for something simliar to what Ubuntu Edgy is going for
<Amaranth> generation X is probably the parents of most people here
<cbx33> with customised versions for younger and older users
<LaserJock> Amaranth: lol
<LaserJock> true
<Viper550> Okay, so for icons, we ship maybe Tangerine or Human from Ubuntu
<Viper550> NOT Tango Brown, it clashes even more with that green wallpaper
<mhz> HedgeMage: it seems I have been in Edubuntu Handbook (former cookbook) team in LP, or you mean a diff ne?
<mhz> one
<Amaranth> "The generation following the post-World War II baby boom, especially people born in the United States and Canada from the early 1960s to the late 1970s."
<Viper550> My definition of Generation X are teens in our modern life
<Viper550> Or, maybe we should call them the MTV Generation, or the Web 2.0 Generation
<Amaranth> so you're saying if you're a twentysomething you're generation x
<mhz> oh, people using Xbox?
<Amaranth> but that's wrong
<Amaranth> teenagers are generation y
<Viper550> No, that changed in this whole interconnected landscape with messengers and blogs and all that!
<mhz> Viper550: just the Ubuntu generation :D
<Amaranth> so you're saying bloggers stole their parents name?
<Amaranth> :P
<Amaranth> you're not making any sense
<Viper550> The Culture Wars
<Viper550> Sorry for the non-sensical terms, I don't know which one to use
<Amaranth> 1982-2000 is Generation Y
<mhz> HedgeMage: I am approved here -> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-handbook
<cbx33> what's pre 1982? 
<mhz> X
<Viper550> I mean, the teenagers of today
<pygi> mhz: whats with that team?
<Viper550> Never mind on the terms...
<Viper550> Let's debate artwork style, not human generations!
<mhz> pygi: iirc, HedgeMage or you asked me to join a team.. wasn't it it?
<Amaranth> technically the MTV Generation would be the parents of teenagers around today too ;)
<pygi> mhz: right, and you are joined already :P
<cbx33> I'll make a note of all this and send it to AliasVegas
<mhz> pygi: oh, so someone joined me?
<Viper550> Okay, the iGeneration
<mhz> or the eGeneration?
<pygi> mhz: Mauricio Hernandez? :P
<mhz> sip
<Viper550> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_generation
<Amaranth> Google Generation
<pygi> look at the team page :P
<mhz> pygi: so I am confused... which team was I not listed in?
<pygi> mhz: none :P
* mhz rests
<mhz> pygi: and where should get the SVN current version of what is already written?
<cbx33> so Viper550 
<Viper550> so what?
<cbx33> cn I ask a favour of you
<Viper550> what?
<Viper550> make a theme?
<pygi> mhz: mail hedge about svn access
<mhz> pygi: okis
<cbx33> AliasVegas asked in the edubuntu meeting the other day for everyone who was interested, to send one line stating
<cbx33> What they didn't like abotu the dapper themes
<cbx33> and one line about what they would like to see in edgy
<pygi> mhz: :)
<Viper550> Sent
<cbx33> received
<cbx33> she'll look at it in a few minutes
<Viper550> Here was my comment for Dapper if anyone else wants to know: The Green Wallpaper, and the offering of Brown Icons along with the orange and red theme causes major clashing!
<Viper550> And my Edgy idea: Something more consistent that actually goes together without clashing. 
<cbx33> yes I agree
<cbx33> I think that sticking to the redish colours is important
<cbx33> because that is a known almost brand of edubuntu now
<Viper550> Yeah, we keep the Yellow and Orange idea, but NO GREEN
<cbx33> no, no green
<Viper550> Good.
<Viper550> OH yeah, hilarious comment: When I originally responded to the mailing list about Dapper's theme, I described it as like "Xmasubuntu"
<ogra_> cbx33, before i jump into my van and drive across the country agian ... could you show lisa the three themes in the edubuntu artwork package ? she seems not aware that we have a university theme (at least the try of one) in dapper already
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ogra_, I will it is probably my fault
<Viper550> The 3 themes were: EdubuntuColors, the edubuntucolors GTK theme, Ubuntulooks metacity, and the Gartoon icons
<ogra_> nope
<cbx33> i showed her it on my machine a while back
<Viper550> Then EdubuntuPlain, replacing Gartoon with TangoBrown
<ogra_> the three themes were "default" , "young" and "plain"
<cbx33> but I never got to show her the other one
<cbx33> ogra_, please accept my apologies
<Viper550> Not on Dapper
<ogra_> sudo dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork on a fresh install lets you select them ...
<cbx33> I'm about to try and fix grasynco
<cbx33> ogra_, have a safe journey
<ogra_> cbx33, dont worry, its easy t oversee :)
<Viper550> What are so different about them?
<cbx33> ping HedgeMage 
<ogra_> Viper550, btw, it would be nice if you could stop ranting about the theme in the artwork list ... i developed the gtk and windown colors on top of an orange wallpaper that was fitting perfectly, we had to include the chalkboard due to a management decision 
<Viper550> Oh
<ogra_> so there was no time to adjust the colors 
<Viper550> So that's what happened
<ogra_> (i agree with you btw)
<ogra_> if we had had the choice, we'd have made the edubuntu young wallpaper from lisa the default 
<cbx33> ogra_, I still cannot get rsyncer to work :S
<Viper550> I think a shift back to full Yellow and Orange (or usage of a neutral wallpaper, like maybe a BLACKboard) would be better
<ogra_> yes, i saw the mail, i tend to disagree that black/dark grey is good for a school wallpaper ... you will create depressive pupils :)
<cbx33> ogra_, totally agree
<ogra_> we shuld have something fresh and colorful ... i hope we're not bound to the chalkboard in edgy as well
* cbx33 too
<cbx33> ogra_, are we not making the final artowrk decisions this time round?
<ogra_> but thats something we need to hear from mark about ... i'll talk to him in wiesbaden (if he comes)
<Amaranth> everyone stop downloading knot-1 cds, i need mine :)
<ogra_> cbx33, as i understood the artwork teams make the, but i need agreement frm mark first
<ogra_> *them
<cbx33> ogra_, http://pastebin.ca/96264
<ogra_> Amaranth, bittorrent is a great invetion :P
<cbx33> that is the script downloaded straight from people.ubuntu.
<Amaranth> ogra_: d'oh
<ogra_> ;)
<cbx33> I'm just gonna modify it
<Amaranth> i was 50% done and it had more time left than a full download normally takes
<cbx33> to do alternative and desktop
<ogra_> Amaranth, bte i'll be offline for some hours while driving, if you see Keybuk or infinity in -devel, poke them to process willowng in NEW
<Amaranth> will do
<Amaranth> have a nice trip
<ogra_> heh ... 
<ogra_> moving if you dont like to is never pleasant :) 
<Amaranth> in 4 days i spent 30 hours in a car last weekend
<Viper550> brb
<ogra_> (even though i like the new house ... i'd be happy not having to do the moving :P )
<Amaranth> why do you have to move?
<cbx33> ogra_, http://pastebin.ca/96270 - updated
<ogra_> my GF's mother died in march ... we inherited a huuuuge house with a beautiful garden and tons of nifty tech gadgets
<cbx33> neither desktop nor live nor nothing works
<Amaranth> something in the will about having to live in it or you lose it?
<ogra_> desktop must be in the folder daily-live
<cbx33> or is it because the desktop cd is broken
<ogra_> alternative must be named alterate
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> alternate?
<cbx33> or alterate?
<ogra_> alternate ... look in the folders on cdimage ;)
<cbx33> ok
<HedgeMage> back now
<cbx33> ok I'll send you a patch
<HedgeMage> mhz: you're already on the right one, don't worry about it
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 you were looking for me?
<cbx33> HedgeMage, you know the dclassical music question I asked you about
<ogra_> rsync rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage lets you browse the rsync server btw
<cbx33> ahhh thanks ogra_ 
<cbx33> HedgeMage, that 5th symphony is the bit the little girl plays...dum dum dadum, dum dum dadum
<cbx33> but not the actual opening theme to the film, or so my mum, who is trying to find the track says
<cbx33> :p
<HedgeMage> cbx33: ahh I thought what the little girl plays was what you were talking about
<HedgeMage> cbx33: dangit now I'm going to have to get bethoven from netflix :P
<cbx33> no :p
<mhz> HedgeMage: k
<cbx33> hehe
<HedgeMage> oh well, at least TT likes it IIRC :)
<Viper550> back
<Viper550> I'm going to work on a new theme
<cbx33> w00t it's working
<cbx33> :D
<mhz> Anyone here using SchoolTool and/or CanDo ?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: what's working?
<cbx33> HedgeMage, the rsyncer.sh script :D
<cbx33> now I can update grasynco tomorrow
<HedgeMage> cbx33: cool :)
<cbx33> yup
<melle> hm i just typed ctrl+S in my terminal (wrong window) looked like he saved my terminl does anyone know where i can find that save?
<DanielC> Hello. I've been out of the loop for a while. The last two weeks have been crazy.
<pygi> Hey DanielC
* DanielC waves
<DanielC> End of school is a busy time for us.
<Southron> I'm trying to install Edubuntu 6.06 from CD-R onto an HP Pavillion 6636. It boots from the CD and begins the installation, getting through all the language steps, but then complains that it can't find the CD-ROM drive (even thought it obviously has been using it up to that point). Any ideas?
<Southron> The step is titled "Detect and mount CD-ROM."
<melle> Southron: im sorry i cant help you but if you wont get some help here because they are bussy you could go to #ubnutu edubuntu is based on ubunutu and i think they can also help you.
<Southron> Thanks -- I'll try there, too.
<mhz> Anyone here using SchoolTool and/or CanDo ?
<pygi> [21:52]  <mhz> Anyone here using SchoolTool and/or CanDo ?
<pygi> :P
<mhz> yeah
<pygi> [23:50]  <mhz> Anyone here using SchoolTool and/or CanDo ?
<pygi> :P
<pygi> sorry, havent really used it
<mhz> one the real pending things we have is testing schooltool
<mhz> most people dont even know we have it
<DanielC> I'm not even sure what it is.
<mhz> also, iirc, we used to  ship moodel
<mhz> moodle
<DanielC> I've heard of it often though.
<mhz> it is a very cool tool for schools
<DanielC> :)
<mhz> you can manage courses, students, teachers, timetables
<DanielC> I think it's for administration (scheduling classes?)
<mhz> classrooms
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> Ok, at least I have an idea now.
<LaserJock> DanielC: what format is the OO.o starter guide in?
<mhz> yeah, and CanDo is supposed to keep track of students learning
<DanielC> LaserJock: OpenDocument format.
<DanielC> LaserJock: Translation to HTML is possible with modest data loss (e.g. it'd be one big page).
<LaserJock> DanielC: hmm, that's a bit sticky then for the dependecies
<LaserJock> I would think you would want OO.o as a dep
<LaserJock> but I see your point
<DanielC> yeah...
<DanielC> I see both sides of the argument.
<DanielC> I'm happy to add OOo as a dependency.
<DanielC> I just wanted to raise that point.
<mhz> DanielC: CanDo -> http://www.careercenter.arlington.k12.va.us/cando/use_cando_main.htm
<DanielC> *click*
<mhz> and SchoolTool -> http://www.schooltool.org/
<DanielC> *click*
<mhz> ;)
<DanielC> mhz: Is SchoolTool approaching 1.0 ?
<DanielC> My employer keeps asking when it'll be ready.
* DanielC doesn't know much about SchoolTool except that his boss wants it done yesterday ;)
<mhz> afaik, SchoolTool 2006 alpha2
<DanielC> Ok, so it's still a while.
<pygi> DanielC: lol :P
<mhz> however, this looks pretty cool
<mhz> http://www.schooltool.org/st-products/schooltool-2006/schooltool-2006-alpha2
<DanielC> *click*
<DanielC> What's it written on? Is it server-side/web-based?
<mhz> iirc, Zope
<mhz> and a Zope DB engine
<DanielC> ok
<mhz> which?
<mhz> no idea
<mhz> I am just an end-user
<mhz> ;)
#edubuntu 2006-07-23
<mhz> wow!
<mhz> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/XubuntuEdgy/Proposals
<mhz> Excellent ideas for look and feel
<mhz> it does look professional, modern, hot, edgy
<DanielC> Is anyone here going to be at LugRadio tomorrow?
<DanielC> I'll be there.
<mhz> what's on it?
* DanielC doesn't understand the question
<DanielC> Mark will be speaking... there's an Ubuntu booth...
<LaserJock> what is LugRadio?
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> It's sort of like a conference, but it gets podcasted.
<DanielC> very informal
<LaserJock> neato
<DanielC> You can expect to see people making fun of Microsoft and stuff. Nothing too serious.
<DanielC> Today there was a Microsoft guy talking about security :)
<DanielC> I missed that talk, I would have loved to see the crowd's reaction.
<DanielC> I met Henrik today!
<DanielC> (at LugRadio)
<mhz> DanielC: henrik as in hno73?
<DanielC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HenrikOmma
<mhz> that henrik
<mhz> yeah, nice guy
<DanielC> I don't know if that is hno73
<mhz> yup
<DanielC> ok
<mhz> ot 75
<mhz> or
* mhz always gets confused
<DanielC> I gave a presentation about OpenDocument, and demonstrated a viewer. After the talked he asked me about making an accessible version.
<DanielC> Turns out that a basic fully-accessible ODF reader is easy given the work we've already done.
<mhz> cool!
<mhz> yeah, Hnerik is one of the leaders of a11y team
<mhz> in ubuntu
<DanielC> The viewer works by turning ODF into HTML and giving it to Gecko. To make an accessible one, just give the HTML to lynx instead.
<mhz> ooh
<mhz> simple idea
<mhz> seems to be effective
<DanielC> yup
<mhz> eurkea!!!
<DanielC> ?
<mhz> Schooltool Login Info:
<mhz> user -> manager
<mhz> pwd -> schooltool
<mhz> http://localhost:7080
<Amaranth> anyone have any experience with freenx?
<LaserJock> I never got it working :/
<Viper550> Hello again
<LaserJock> hi
<Viper550> I just made a port of EdubuntuColors to the Candido GTK Engine
<Amaranth> screenshot!
* Viper550 going to switch over to his Linux computer
* Amaranth loves candido
<Viper550> Sorry for the slowness, but did someone ask for a screenshot?
<Burgundavia> ye
<Burgundavia> s
<Viper550> http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=edubuntucandidola2.png
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what to look for but that looks nice
<Viper550> LaserJock: Do you have the Candido GTK engine yet?
<LaserJock> not sure, I don't really use X much, tbh
<Viper550> Really?
<Viper550> So that means you use IRSSI as your IRC client too right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Viper550> But, how were you able to view my image? Let me guess, it's running in gnome-terminal, right?
<LaserJock> I like X but I usually have to ssh into my Ubuntu boxes
<Viper550> So you use a Gnome Terminal in X to ssh to your systems?
<LaserJock> well, I'm usually in OS X so I use a terminal
<LaserJock> but I copy the URL and use firefox
<LaserJock> so I use GUI somewhat, but not Linux GUI
<LaserJock> I also VNC if I *need* GUI
<LaserJock> here's how bad it is ATM
<LaserJock> don't laugh or spear me
<LaserJock> I'm using PuttY to ssh from Windows into my mac running OS X to use irssi
<Viper550> WOAH!
<Viper550> You know, they do have X-Chat for Windows
<Viper550> http://www.silverex.org/news/
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<LaserJock> Viper550: yeah, but my mac is on 24x7
<Viper550> Cool
<LaserJock> it's the only computer I have access to that is on all the time
<LaserJock> so that's were I do irssi from
<LaserJock> I also have Xchat on my Windows laptop but I don't use it so much
* bddebian uses xchat and putty on WIndows constantly
<LaserJock> well, if my Ubuntu box was ever on I'd use that
<LaserJock> but it eats up electricity and makes the whole room hot in the summer
<HedgeMage> mhz: ping!
<mhz> HedgeMage: pong
<mhz> yeah, I have not sent the minute
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> you read my mind :)
<HedgeMage> Have an ETA or should I pull up logs and try to find time to do it?
<mhz> ETA?
<mhz> HedgeMage: I know I will send it during next hour
<mhz> no later than that
<HedgeMage> Estimated Time of Availability/Arrival 
<HedgeMage> Thanks! you rock :)
* mhz has been doing many stuff for Edubuntu in Chile :(
<HedgeMage> np, I know you're busy
<mhz> HedgeMage: nah, I only rock when I get kisses :D
* HedgeMage smooches mhz 
<mhz> not that busy, but yes, not very good at defining priorities among many to dos :D
* mhz wishes more chileans were involved to attend the needs we have on IT for Education, at least a quarter of the people we have on this channel
* mhz goes upstairs to tell a story to his daughter
<mhz> th1a: hey!
<mhz> th1a: I have a couple of questions fo ryou if possble
* mhz will be back in 15 minutes
<mhz> re
<mhz> th1a: oing
<mhz> p
<Amaranth> http://www.realistanew.com/random/freenx.png <--now i can break things in safety
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: what wall paper are you using?
<Amaranth> I have no idea, I found it on deviantart.
<Amaranth> http://www.deviantart.com/view/25814423/
<Amaranth> found it :)
<th1a> mhz: pong
<mhz> th1a: got a sec?
<th1a> Yeah.
<mhz> th1a: I am testing some apps shiped default in Edubuntu
<mhz> as you know, Schooltool is
<mhz> however, we don't provide any info
<mhz> about it
<th1a> Indeed.
<mhz> it took me over 1 hour to get login info via google
<th1a> Yes, that is a problem.
<mhz> because you were not on channel
<mhz> :)
<mhz> and people who were, never answered
<th1a> There is a README...
<mhz> I tried to test CanDo, too.
<th1a> So what should we do?
<mhz> the url is broken
<mhz> /usr/share/schooltool
<mhz> has no readme
<th1a> I don't know anything about the details of packaging.
<mhz> yeah,
<th1a> We have a README in our source.
<mhz> hence I am very interested on providing info about ir
<mhz> th1a: my main interest is getting very aquainted with SchoolTool as well as with CanDo
<mhz> esp. if Edubuntu will continue shipping it
<mhz> I have tried it for about 50 minutes
<mhz> and still can't delete any TT
<mhz> even after getting Access correctly
<mhz> etc
<th1a> mhz: The packages are rather out of date.
<mhz> oh
<th1a> We've been writing a ton of code, which wouldn't be ready for Dapper.
<Amaranth> hrm
<mhz> th1a: oh, i see
<Amaranth> using ltsp to change the proxy settings for every user i'd just have to change the debconf and base gconf proxy settings on the server, right?
<th1a> For Breezy, we had a calendar;
<th1a> in Edgy we'll have a basic student information system.
<mhz> th1a: also, I am writing stuff for Edubuntu Handbook, esp. Edubuntu for lighter pc's. I believe SchoolTool deserves a subchapter
<th1a> But right now, we just have an alpha student information system,
<th1a> which we couldn't put in Dapper.
<th1a> mhz:  Yes, indeed.
<mhz> Amaranth: hmm, no idea. I know ogra had an 'episode' with iwj about it
<mhz> Amaranth: i am sure Yagisan is an expert on security issues
<Amaranth> mhz: yeah, probably about transparent proxying :)
<mhz> oops, just left
<mhz> heheh
<th1a> mhz:  We're not quite at the point where I want to spend a lot of time writing docs.
<Amaranth> the original idea for willowng was transparent proxying, now i'm doing the debconf and gconf stuff
<mhz> th1a: I am
<th1a> We just changed around the basic navigational paradigm (now, with tabs!), and similar key things are just settling down.
<mhz> however, maybe not a "lot of writing" but at least a decent amount of paragraphs
<th1a> We also just completely changed access control, for example.
<th1a> mhz:  Are we thinking for Edgy or current users?
<mhz> yup
<th1a> Which?
<mhz> edgy
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> I missed last 2 words :)
<mhz> edgy
<th1a> OK.
<mhz> hence my concern
<th1a> What's your time frame?
<mhz> and personally, because I am demoing Edubuntu at least once or twice a week
<mhz> to diff lab teachers
<mhz> Sep 1st, freeze
<mhz> (freeze for Edubuntu Handbook
<th1a> OK.  How many pages are we talking?
<mhz> 2 -> 10 th proofread and last minute changes
<mhz> 11 -> 29 th, translations
<mhz> th1a: I want to write at least 10 lines per each funcionality in SchoolTool
<mhz> and hopefully a screenshoot
<th1a> mhz:  Well, we're planning on releasing our first test packages for Edgy real soon now, probably in about a week.
<th1a> That would be the place for you to start, I think.
<th1a> I'll certainly help.
<mhz> th1a: THANK you very much
<mhz> I am sure that if I can test everything shipped, I can write those 10 lines per feature
<Burgundavia> th1a: are you on track for your 2006 goals>
<th1a> mhz:  Also, I'm going to be spending most of August setting up SchoolTool instances for various schools, which should make it easy for me to know what needs to be written.
<th1a> Burgundavia: Erhm... we're a bit behind.
<mhz> ehhee, yeah, good.
<Burgundavia> th1a: lack of people?
<mhz> th1a: and how about CanDo?
<th1a> Development via paid contractors is not proving to be reliably fast, at least as managed by me.
<th1a> mhz: CanDo is on schedule... but it is a more conventional project.  That is, they're scratching their own itch.
<mhz> oohh
<th1a> Scratching the world's itch is inherently more difficult.
<Burgundavia> how does cando fit into schooltool?
<Burgundavia> I am little confused on that point
<th1a> CanDo is like a module, or set of modules.
<th1a> It is focused on competency tracking.
<Burgundavia> ok
<th1a> But we did a lot of work with their developers to share important parts of the data model for assessment in general.
<Burgundavia> so it plugs into schooltool?
<mhz> CanDo is a very needed tool in school envs.
<th1a> It is also a case where last years CanDo and this year's CanDo are totally different.
<mhz> Usually, many schools in Chile are adopting Moodle. However, Competency Tracking is very important
<Burgundavia> how does moodle fit into schooltool?
<th1a> Last year's was kind of a crude bolt-on job, but now we have it more properly integrated.
<th1a> Well, we need to share data with Moodle.
<th1a> Moodle understands courses, but not the structure of schools as a whole.
<Burgundavia> is that where SIF comes in?
<th1a> Bingo!
<th1a> We're kind of at this point where we either adopt a neutral standard or talking to Moodle becomes the defacto standard.
<th1a> Although there are also IMS standards for sharing data with learning management systems like Moodle,
<mhz> SIF?
<th1a> but IMS has a very elearning-centric view of the universe, whereas SIF is more general.
<th1a> mhz:  SIF:  the Schools Interoperability Framework - http://www.sifinfo.org
<Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_Interoperability_Framework
<th1a> It is kind of a weird case, because it is an open standard with only proprietary implementation at this point.
* mhz would love to create courses via MoinMoin wiki, admin schools basics via CanDo and SchoolTool, and all as a Platform
<th1a> I've been writing some code for an open source "Zone Integration Server" which is basically an XML router that SIF depends on.
<th1a> It is going pretty well.
<mhz> nice
* mhz knows th1a is one of the superheroes of FLOSS for Education
* th1a blushes.
<th1a> http://sifsoft.com/trac
<Burgundavia> th1a: how well are you doing with paid vs volunteers devs?
<th1a> Well, SchoolTool has always experienced the effect of paid development severely dampening volunteer development,
<th1a> plus not many people know Zope 3.
<mhz> th1a: and, so Moodle will be, or it could be Moin to create courses instead? (then it is all python)
<Burgundavia> hmm, issues
<th1a> Well... you just need some kind of platform-neutral way of moving them around.
<th1a> There are a bunch of elearning standards for content packaging and interoperability.
<th1a> Plus SchoolTool proper (i.e., the part Mark funds) is specifically NOT for holding content.
<jsgotangco> hey tom
<mhz> yeah, actually, I am still not sure if supporting Exelearning or Edubuntu Study Content (edu content via APT)
<mhz> (exelearning can get you SCORM)
<th1a> So we have a gradebook, assignment events, but not literally lessons.
<th1a> jsgotangco: Hi.
<mhz> yup
<mhz> and CanDo will add that interesting part
<elmago55> Hola
<mhz> elmago55: hi
<th1a> mhz:  CanDo is still mostly pointing to external lessons.
<mhz> yup
<mhz> interesting extra part
<mhz> I meant
<mhz> I have been asked many times "I need to evaluate competencies"
<mhz> not "memory"
<th1a> mhz:  What part of the world are you in?
<mhz> Chile
<th1a> Ah.  Interesting.
<mhz> we'll have a kind of moodle congress sponsored by people in CEPAL
<mhz> IIRC, Center of Studies for Latin America 
<th1a> CanDo is having a sprint next week, and I think we'll be starting to package their release for the fall school year.
<mhz> nice, I have been looking up a demo server unsuccessfully yet
<th1a> Yeah... they're pretty much done, so we should be able to work on that.
<mhz> the one on the site just does not exist :)
<th1a> The problem with open source projects based at an individual school:  you can write code quickly, but all the other infrastructure of running an open source project is hard to maintain, because you don't have a lot of extra resources.
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> +1
<th1a> At the same time, it was hard getting them to move all their documents, etc., off their school's site and onto schooltool.org.  The teachers involved were more comfortable with their own site.
<th1a> So I pretty much gave up on that.
<Burgundavia> we almost need a company to be behind schooltool
<Burgundavia> somebody to offer support services, etc.
<th1a> We do.
<th1a> Mainly we need to finish it.
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> you think you will spin off much like highvoltage and his crew just did?
<th1a> We're already spun off TSF...
<Burgundavia> oh?
<th1a> I mean, the history is that SchoolTool was one of the first TSF projects, years ago,
<mhz> Burgundavia: I do
<mhz> :D
<mhz> Burgundavia: I have a workgroup called Tecnocimiento
<th1a> Before Mark was a cosmonaut, even.
<mhz> we were meant to be a foundation in Chile but we just cant afford to
<mhz> so, we are a "workgroup"
<mhz> we provide support to Schools implementing Edubuntu
<th1a> Anyhow, that first TSF-managed version blew up in a blaze of Java,
<mhz> we demo edubuntu at least 1 or 2 times every week to diff lab teachers
<th1a> and the TSF vowed to not try to manage a large software project again (or at least that's how I understand the tale).
<th1a> So Mark hired Steve Alexander and Programmers of Vilnius to start writing a new version.
<th1a> It was Mark's focus briefly, between going into space and starting Canonical.
<mhz> lol
<th1a> So I work directly for Mark.
<Burgundavia> yes, I read that blog post of marks
<Burgundavia> ok, next question: what is schoolbell?
<th1a> Well, that was another bright idea...
<th1a> Essentially we tried spinning of just the calendar server.
<th1a> Hoping that would attract some volunteer development in its own right.
<Burgundavia> and how did that work?
<th1a> It didn't, for various reasons.
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> so schoolbell is now an integral part again?
<th1a> We might have had some chance with it if we'd relicensed more of it as BSD-ish instead of GPL.
<Burgundavia> why BSDish?
<th1a> Or if Zope 3 had become more popular.
<th1a> Well, more people might have used the iCalendar libraries if they had been BSD, LGPL, or similar.
<Burgundavia> ah
<th1a> That came up on discussions about Python and calendaring at the time.
<th1a> So the source tree has been reorganized and in theory we can produce a SchoolBell package from our SchoolTool source tree, but we don't have any time to actually try it out.
<th1a> We have other priorities.
<cbx33> mornin
<lecaros> night for me yet
<mhz> cbx33: hey
<cbx33> hi mhz 
<mhz> cbx33: what's your TZ?
<cbx33> howz it all going
<cbx33> GMT
<lecaros> oh, here we are GMT -4 :(
<cbx33> 7 am here
<mhz> cbx33: lecaros is one of the few people actively helping me in Chile with Edubuntu
<cbx33> ah,.......hi lecaros 
<lecaros> hi cbx33
<cbx33> mhz, did you say you were goign to start ranslating the ESA?
<mhz> sip
<mhz> i mean
<mhz> yup
<cbx33> :D
<mhz> cbx33: why?
<cbx33> no reason
<cbx33> brb
<mhz> buu
<lecaros> I think cbx33 wants to help us ;)
<mhz> nah
<mhz> he wrote ESA
<cbx33> right I'm off guys
<cbx33> take care
<Phlosten> hi all
<HedgeMage> hello :)
<lecaros> hi Phlosten
<Phlosten> damn wiki is down, so I am here for enlightenment
<HedgeMage> on what?
<Phlosten> getting a client to boot from Edubuntu
<Phlosten> from what I gather a standard Edubuntu install is ready to go in terms of a client booting from it
<HedgeMage> pretty much... I'm no LTSP guru, though.  I've only really done the standalone stuff.
<Burgundavia> Phlosten: http://edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<Burgundavia> HedgeMage: one up from me. I have never actually installed edubuntu
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: *gasp*
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: we will have to remedy that :P
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> I got as far as downloading it the other day
<HedgeMage> that's a good first step, I guess :P
<Phlosten> now I created a netboot disk for my old machine and it boots up until a point where it says,.."Searching for server (DHCP)...No IP Address"
<Burgundavia> you need to generate teh dhcp information, I believe
<Phlosten> for the boot disk?
<Phlosten> or is it server config
<Burgundavia> on the server config
<Phlosten> ok, bbl
<lecaros> bye guys
<juliux> hi all
<juliux> has somebody an idea which ltsp somebody is using if he needs to activate xdmcp??
<spacey> juliux: the ltsp.org ltsp works with xdmcp
<juliux> spacey, ah, but the user said he only installed edubuntu
<spacey> then you don't need xdmcp
<spacey> if he uses the ubuntu variant
<juliux> i ask him for the output from dpkg -l ltsp-server so we can see which version is realy installed
<bddebian> Howdy
<Lord_Athur> hi, is there any problem with the ubuntu pages?
<marcel`> hi, im not really a teacher or anything but i like the concept is it ok if i stick arround?
<bddebian> Only if you get to work. ;-)
<marcel`> As in my day job?
<bddebian> I was thinking as in helping with Edubuntu, but I was joking anyway. :)
<marcel`> Ah oke well i just installed edubuntu today so i doubt if i can help you guys but maybe when i get more experienced whit linux..
<bddebian> Actually all joking aside, just getting user feedback can be good.
<marcel`> ok well just ask if you want me to test anything or want my opion or something like that :)
<sloncho> hi. how do i start text mode install. i do not want the graphical installer
<sloncho> the gpartitioner sucks big time
<sloncho> how do i start text mode install. i do not want the graphical installer
<mhz> RichEd: hi there
<mhz> RichEd: get my "short" email ?
<juliux> hi mhz 
<mhz> juliux: hey! good to see ya
<juliux> mhz, how are you?
<mhz> juliux: very motivated to work next 3 days on edubuntu only stuff
* mhz is unemployed so, while looking for a job... edubuntu is my # priority
<juliux> mhz, great
<mhz> juliux: how about you?
<juliux> good
<juliux> i will fly back to germany in 3 hours
<mhz> where are you?
<juliux> in lonodn
<juliux> london
<juliux> cu later
<Viper550> Hello again everyone
<mhz> hmm, is it me or there are some issues when trying to connect to ubuntu sites_
<mhz> ?
<marcel`> mhz: not its not just you there are many ubuntu services down atm
<mhz> marcel`: oh, thanks for checking too
<mhz> and I had convinced my wife to let me use a couple of hours on Edubuntu stuff it is on the sites ?)
<mhz> :(
* mhz is using diff xmodmap now... so fingers still go to other keys
<HedgeMage> mhz: thanks for the Handbook meeting minutes :)
<HedgeMage> mhz: you can work on handbook, the unofficial repo is unaffected ;)
<HedgeMage> speaking of which, you need commit access.
<mhz> HedgeMage: yeah, your kisses work miracles
* mhz gotta get familiar with SVN, though
* HedgeMage kisses mhz 
<HedgeMage> mhz: I wrote up a "basics" email for a couple of other people not used to it... shall I send it to you, too?
<mhz> why not
<mhz> yeah
* mhz get the kisses and jumps in
<HedgeMage> hehe
* pygi tickles HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> mhz: send to mhz@ubuntu.com?
<HedgeMage> hi pygi :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<HedgeMage> hi highvoltage 
<HedgeMage> did you get my jabber messages from earlier?
<lecaros> hi guys
<mhz> netsplit?
<mhz> lol
<mhz> between kisses and tickles..
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: i haven't logged in yet... just a moment...
<mhz> and getting wet by spry
<mhz> who knows what will happen
<mhz> highvoltage: hi
<mhz> re edubuntu site translation/ my guess it would be lot more efficient if we could work on the same site, generating the -es pages
<highvoltage> hey mhz!
<highvoltage> (and hi to HedgeMage too, btw ;) )
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: opened up those links in tabs, will look just now when it's loaded (*very* slow connection here)
<highvoltage> mhz: *nods*
<mhz> highvoltage: so, is it possible to have access to drupal and start translating on it, or you prefer the dumping idea?
<HellDragon> hi
<mhz> hi, HellDragon 
<HedgeMage> hi HellDragon 
<HedgeMage> HellDragon: We could really use some help on the Edubuntu Handbook
<HedgeMage> HellDragon: we expect to publish it in October (via lulu) to coincide with Edgy's release.
<HellDragon> :o
<highvoltage> ubuntu.com down?
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: yep
<mhz_food> yup
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: a number of things are.
<mhz_food> for last 2 hours at least
<HedgeMage> mhz_food: get my email?
<HedgeMage> HellDragon: sound interesting to you?
<HellDragon> HedgeMage, yep
<HedgeMage> cool
<mhz_food> HedgeMage: i'll check after lunch time and some time with my daughter
<mhz_food> sorry
<mhz_food> TZ are diff
<mhz_food> :D
<HedgeMage> mhz_food: np just wanted to make sure I used the right address
<mhz_food> mhz AT ubuntu DOT com
<HedgeMage> yep that's what I sent it to :)
<highvoltage> (brb)
<HedgeMage> HellDragon: The wiki is down ATM but if you have Subversion installed you can get the chapter list from our "unofficial" repo
* mhz_food gotta go off a little
<HellDragon> i have subversion, what is the unofficial repo address please ?
<HedgeMage> http://svn.binaryredneck.net/handbook
<HedgeMage> HellDragon: so what do you think?
<HellDragon> well it looks good so far but im kinda lost lol
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: i need to get to bed now, I'll ping you again tomorrow. goodnight!
<HedgeMage> night night
<HedgeMage> oops, too late
<mhz_food> HedgeMage: maybe he would have stayed longer if you'd have snet kisses to him too
<mhz_food> :D
<mhz_food> oops, I am stil at lunch
<HedgeMage> hehe
* HedgeMage kisses mhz_food so he'll keep coming back ;)
<marcel`> haha
<mhz_food> lol
<mhz_food> and HedgeMage remeber pygi needs the anti-tickle spary
<mhz_food> too
<HedgeMage> hehe
* marcel` checks the channel name one more time ;x
<HedgeMage> ;)
<mhz_food> HedgeMage: nope, no email from you yet
<HellDragon> heh
<HedgeMage> mhz_food: odd
* HedgeMage checks
<mhz_food> HedgeMage: what is your email address?
<mhz_food> maybe I deleted it or got caught as spam
<HedgeMage> mhz_food: hedgemage@binaryredneck.net
* mhz_food only reads emails with at least 3 word subject and non generic stuff, the other 500 emails go to trash
<HedgeMage> the subject was "Edubuntu Handbook SVN info"
<HedgeMage> I know the ettiquette ;)
<mhz_food> okis
<mhz_food> HedgeMage: i did not know it was ettiquette now
<HedgeMage> mhz_food: has been for years, AFAIK
<mhz_food> nope, no email from you at all
* mhz_food is so outdated on so many things
<HedgeMage> I'll try again
<HedgeMage> mhz_food: mhz -AT- ubuntu -DOT- com correct?
<mhz_food> yup
<mhz_food> or try... mhz AT tecnocimiento DOT cl
<HedgeMage> I'll do both just in case.
<HedgeMage> mhz: sent.
<mhz> -me checks
<HedgeMage> if you still don't have it, I'll try again from my military email account
<mhz> military?
<mhz> lol! I got the 2 o'em
<HedgeMage> mhz: my husband is in the US Army... I have an email account on their servers.  I try to avoid using it for personal stuff, though.
<HedgeMage> cool
<mhz> HedgeMage: and because Military may get my emails and control my communications, etc
<mhz> :D
<HedgeMage> heh, I always ask before using that with anyone in another country, I don't always know the climate in different places.
<mhz> yeah, one could write "something courious"
<HedgeMage> heh
<pygi> mhz: what ? you are making plots behind my backs???
<mhz> pygi: hehehe
<mhz> everything for kisses
<pygi> damn you :'(
<mhz> pygi: however, you decided to get the anti-tickle spray, not me
<pygi> mhz: that aint true
<mhz> nope?
<pygi> no, Hedgemage decided to get it
<mhz> oh, yeah, right
<mhz> well, i get kisses maybe because I am more handsome :)
<pygi> ergh, you and your plots !!!
<HedgeMage> lol
<mhz> hey, it is not my fault i have this charm :p
<pygi> I havent complained about the kisses, I am complaining about the plots :P
<HedgeMage> You two are cute ;)
* HedgeMage blows pygi a kiss from a few steps out of tickling range
<mhz> pygi: a real plot would be I send you to ask stuff to iwj :D
<pygi> mhz: ergh, I must admit you are right on this one :P
<mhz> hehehehehe
<mhz> i am right and 'transparent"
* mhz is translating schooltool pages
* pygi evades HedgeMage :P
<mhz> see? you give us arguments for the plot
<pygi> mhz: bleh :P
#edubuntu 2007-07-16
<timma> I am having a PXE-E32 error.
<timma> TFTP timeout
<timma> what is the difference between vmlinuz-2.6.20.9-ltsp-1 and -2?
<[joseluis] > hi sombody fron san luis potosi?
<joebob777as7> where do i specify for dhcp to use eth1?
<joebob777as7> hey i just set up my ltsp server and i have two nic's in the system. one is static at 192.168.0.200 and i am trying to run my thinclients on 10.0.0.0 ip's i have the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf setup fine it always tries to use eth0 to do dhcp on instead of eth1... any help please?
<joebob777as7> cliebow? you here?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<joebob777as7> sbalneav you a human?
<joebob777as7> sweet
<joebob777as7> hey
<sbalneav> No, sorry, I'm not human.
<joebob777as7> do you know how i specify dhcp to use eth1? i am trying to set up dhcp...
<joebob777as7> ahhhh crap! screwed again! lol
<sbalneav> sure.
<joebob777as7> i just set up my ltsp server and i have two nic's in the system. one is static at 192.168.0.200 and i am trying to run my thinclients on 10.0.0.0 ip's i have the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf setup fine it always tries to use eth0 to do dhcp on instead of eth1...
<sbalneav> /etc/default/dhcp3-server
<sbalneav> change INTERFACES="" to INTERFACES="eth1"
<sbalneav> Then restart dhcp3-server
<joebob777as7> mwuhahahahhahahahahha
<joebob777as7> awesome! i know it was something like that.
<joebob777as7> it worked perfect! thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@$!@$%@!!@
<sbalneav> NP
<joebob777as7> ok sbalneav another question. I am trying to boot a intel core 2 duo on this? is it possible? or is it only amd4 and i386?
<sbalneav> Well, an intel core duo should be able to use i386
<joebob777as7> oh ok cool
<joebob777as7> one more question in the dpcpd.conf file is there a way to make it boot to amd64 if it isn't a i386?
<joebob777as7> with an else option or something?
<sbalneav> You'd have to have to map by mac address, and provide a special kernel for the amd64, but i368 will work on amd64 too.  It'll just run the client in 32 bit mode.
<sbalneav> You're really not going to gain much performance gains by running the client in 64 bit mode.
<joebob777as7> no i know that but i have a couple amd64 laptops in our office that won't boot i386 i wanted it to be able to boot it.
<joebob777as7> i want to create a couple of users that are limited to their own home folder and can not view the other user's information or home folders... how do i do this?
<Burgundavia> joebob777as7: you need to set the permissions on the /home directory to only allow the owners to view it
<joebob777as7> is there a way i can do that by default for all new users or do i have to run a command for every user folder?
<Burgundavia> joebob777as7: hmm, google it
<Burgundavia> I think you need change /etc/skel, but I am not certain
<joebob777as7> Burgundavia, do you know what command i would run to make it so only owners can view it?
<Burgundavia> to change the existing home dir?
<Burgundavia> a recursive chmod
<Burgundavia> which is highly dangerous and should be tested first on a test dir
<joebob777as7> why is it dangerous? think it would kill the user account?
<Burgundavia> no, it might render your home dirs unreadable
<joebob777as7> oh ok... i'll look it up
<joebob777as7> is there a way that when a user logs out their home folder and all that is in it copies to another directory?
<Burgundavia> you want to remove their home dir?
<joebob777as7> no copy their entire home dir to another folder as a backup every log off
<joebob777as7> ?
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> it would probably be better to run one script in the middle of the night
<Burgundavia> to backup all homedirs
<Burgundavia> because if a user downloads something large, it could cause so much io that it woudl slow down the computer
<Burgundavia> and then use rsync at midnight each night
<joebob777as7> ok thx
<Burgundavia> how many users on the computer?
<joebob777as7> 7
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> why are you concerned about people reading other people's stuff?
<joebob777as7> because it is a legal issue with real estate.
<joebob777as7> confidential client data
<Burgundavia> ahh, ok
<Burgundavia> you could also encrypt the home dirs, but might be overkill in this instance
<Burgundavia> where it to be a medical situation, I would recommend encryption
<joebob777as7> yeah i can't find a solution anywhere. it should be simple as i think in a lot of environments this could be an issue...
<joebob777as7> same computer?
<joebob777as7> oops wrong chan
<joebob777as7> lol
<RichEd> morning all
<RichEd> ping highvoltage
<juliux> mornin RichEd
<RichEd> hi juliux
<juliux> RichEd, is ogra still on the sprint?
<RichEd> ogra said he will try to get to your conference, and daniel has beein chatting to him about it as well
<juliux> cool
<RichEd> juliux: he should have got home yesterday ... so should be back in action today some time after travel recovery
<juliux> RichEd, thxs, i want to talk with him about an education track
<cbx33> ping RichEd
<cbx33> Urgent
<RichEd> hey cbx33 ... long time no see !
<juliux> hey cbx33
<cbx33> hey hey
<cbx33> got a sec?
<RichEd> cbx33: sure
<cbx33> pm
<sbalneav> Morning all
<juliux> morning sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning juliux
<RichEd> afternoon scotty :)\
<sbalneav> Hey RichEd
<sbalneav> Killed a couple of crashbugs on the weekend! \o/
<RichEd> yay !
* RichEd collection -> 30 mins
<lmveloso_> Hi RichEd
<lmveloso_> thanks for your reply
<RichEd> hi lmveloso_ ... sorry no sign of ogra yet ... as I said I think he is on a leave day following travel and work over the weekend in London
<RichEd> when is your deadline ? tomorrow ? and it is US time ?
<lmveloso_> Ok, lets try workaround it
<lmveloso_> this is the problem
<lmveloso_> the deadline is Today 19UTC
<lmveloso_> so we have 4h
<RichEd> today ... okay ...
<lmveloso_> Rodrigo Pereira told me he could fill in the survey..
<RichEd> what is the format of the response ... is there any other way I can see if I can assist you and Rodrigo ?
<lmveloso_> it is a web form available only to the mentor or to the admin guy..
<lmveloso_> in this case Matthias Klose
<lmveloso_> and it is at code.google.com/soc
<RichEd> can we reassign this so that it is available to Rodrigo ?
<lmveloso_> Sure, but just Matthias can do it AFAIK
<lmveloso_> by the way I think it is the best solution
<lmveloso_> after that Matthias can reassign it back to Oliver
<lmveloso_> after the midterm survey
<RichEd> So if Rodrigo is willing to fill in the survey, but only Matthias can access it, how do we reassign to get access ?
<RichEd> Have you been able to get hold of Mattias ?
<lmveloso_> no reply from Matthias
<RichEd> lmveloso_: I can see doko in #canonical) do you want me to ping him and join us for a chat ?
<lmveloso_> Sure, please.. I'm behind a proxy accessing from a webclient..
<lmveloso_> but let's try
<RichEd> okay ... I have pinged him ... give me 10 mins and I will let you know if he responds ... note that he was also on sprint with oliver so we may have the same problem
<lmveloso_> Ok! Thanks for your help!
<RichEd> Note that if we *are unable* to meet the deadline tonight, then we will need to send a mail on your behalf, explaining that there was a mentor problem and *not* a student problem
<RichEd> And apply for a late submission.
<RichEd> This is clearly not your fault ... just bad timing for events.
<lmveloso_> Yes, I think Google will understand the situation
<lmveloso_> By the way, we students can fill in our survey until July/30.
<RichEd> Okay, so the bit we need for today is the mentor submission I presume ?
<RichEd> So it is clear that the mentor is late :)
<lmveloso_> Yes, but I'm positive we will handle it.
<lmveloso_> I'm having lunch now and I'll be back as soon as I can.
<RichEd> okay ... i have an interview at the top of the hour ... so may be busy for a bit
<Petaris> Hello
<Shadow31> I'm trying to install Edubuntu 7.04 on a server, but I keep getting a MD5Sum Mismatch on ./pool/main/t/ttf-kochi/ttf-kochi-gothic_1.0.20030809-4ubuntu2_all.deb. I've tried downloading and burning the file several times through several mirror, but I still get the same error. Ideas, anyone?
<sbalneav> Have you downloaded the iso?
<Shadow31> Hmmm. I'm not sure, actually. My manager has been downloading it. I just get the cd.
<sbalneav> Might want to check the md5 sum on the iso.
<Shadow31> All right. How would I go about doing that?
<sbalneav> Well, on the edubuntu download site there's an md5 sum listed for the iso
<Shadow31> OK, thanks!
<sbalneav> run md5sum on the .iso file you downloaded
<lmveloso_> Hi RichEd.. I'm back
<lmveloso_> It's raining heavily here
<lmveloso_> Any update ?
<Petaris> Does anyone know if the network authentication system is in 7.0.4
<Petaris> and if it works
<RichEd> lmveloso_: in my interview right now ...
<lmveloso_> RichEd: My computer reseted and I missed the msg since I gone away
<lmveloso_> Ok..
<RichEd> lmveloso_: no response from doko
<lmveloso_> I received a mail from Google. Leslie Hawthorn said : "I will ping the Ubuntu team and find out what is going on and get back in touch with you.  It may take a day or two, but we *will* get this sorted out"
<RichEd> ahhh ... respond to leslie and tell her RichEd is working with you to resolve the issue, and with some grace from her w.r.t. time deadlines we will get it done
<RichEd> leslie is a good mate of ours and supporter ... she knows us and me well
<lmveloso_> Yes,.. I'm already resdonding to her
<RichEd> i also remembered that ogra had a bad tooth, and he may be at the dentist for surgery today
<RichEd> mention me by name, and send my regards
<lmveloso_> already did :)
<RichEd> i'll ping doko again later before I go to bed, and again in the morning
<lmveloso_> If doko can't be found I believe we can ask to Oliver to talk to Rodrigo and fill in the survey together
* RichEd is off to dinner with the wif and squids
<lmveloso_> RichEd: Thanks for your help!
<joebob777as7> hey i'm wondering how i can make it that users can not see other user's files by default when i create a new user? can someone help?
<Petaris> Does anyone know if the network authentication system is in 7.0.4 and if it is working?
<joebob777as7> hey i'm wondering how i can make it that users can not see other user's files by default when i create a new user? can someone help?
<stgraber> Petaris: no, network auth isn't in 7.04 (you can still configure one by hand, you can find some help on the wiki)
<stgraber> joebob777as7: how do you create them ? using the GUI or with adduser ?
<joebob777as7> gui
<joebob777as7> stgraber, gui
<stgraber> ok, I just tried 2-3 things but none made me able to have different permissions set by default for new accounts
<stgraber> so you'll have to chmod them by hand :(
<stgraber> sudo chmod g-rwx,o-rwx /home/*
<stgraber> will remove all rights for both group and other on all /home/ sub-directories
<stgraber> sudo chmod g-rwx,o-rwx -R /home/*
<stgraber> if you want to also change permissions for files inside the user directories
<joebob777as7> ok is there a way i can make this run by default when i create an account? i have to create 300...
<stgraber> make a script to create your accounts+set permissions
<stgraber> have to go, be back in 30 minutes or so
<joebob777as7> ok
<Petaris> stgraber: Ok, I will look at the wiki again
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> it appears authtool doesn't work yet
<stephen_> hiya
#edubuntu 2007-07-17
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<RichEd> ping highvoltage ... did you get a chance to grab a copy of the presentation ?
<mattfletcher> hello, i have been working to set up an ubuntu-based computer lab for my local youth group. i've had limited success with ltsp, and i've now decided that because our pcs are all of reasonable spec, i'd rather run each pc separately, but with central sign-in and home directories. is this possible?
<ogra> yes, but a lot of manual work to set up the authentication/home mounting
<ogra> what was your prob with ltsp ?
<ogra> (did you follow the quick install guide ?)
<cliebow_> ogra:you familiar with installing yaboot?..such that one could use an old non-netboot imac as a client?
<cliebow_> just easier to do an install and change the kernel ponted to?
<ogra> cliebow, i didnt topuch ppc since edgy development ... you are surely more familiar with it than i am atm
<cliebow_> ok 8~)
<cliebow_> ogra:any suggestions about cardbus in intramfs? i have one open..
<cliebow_> cat init
<cliebow_> hmm
<cliebow_> ltsp kernel is the stock kernel in gutsy?re pcmcia?
<mattfletcher> ogra: hi, sorry for the massive delay, lunch got in the way! the problem is simply that the hardware we own is better suited to running as a number of fat clients. we have no one machine that fits the role of "server" well. i'm sure we'd be best off with a fat client solution. i've been looking at NIS and NFS and YP, but getting a bit baffled to be honest
<mattfletcher> surely this is a common scenario, a school/club with a lot of old pcs, powerful enuf to run by themselves, with no high-powered server available?
<cliebow_> mattfletcher:then just use them as fat clients seems fine doesnt it?
<lmveloso> Hi Ogra, RichEd
<lmveloso> How are you guys?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey!  How's it going?
<mattfletcher> cliebow_: yes, but i want a centralised user list and home directories, any number of people will be using any machine
<cliebow_> can you set up ldap?
<cliebow_> and use it for authentication on all machines?
<mattfletcher> that's for auth isn't it? i probably could. is that better than NIS and YP?
<cliebow_> nis is pretty old..
<ogra> sbalneav, dizzy ... i'm full of drugs (painkiller, antibiotics ...) but teh bad tooth is gone and i shall be fit until friday my dentist said
<ogra> mattfletcher, nis is pretty insecure ...  go for an ldap setup :)
<sbalneav> ogra: So, I've seen the reports on jetpipe, I'll have a look at them.  I also had a brainwave for serial support.
<sbalneav> Rather than put a bunch of serial stuff IN jetpipe, which is nice, simple and sweet.
<ogra> ah, right, you have some immature code i remember :)
<sbalneav> Why not this.
<sbalneav> stty -F ${SERIAL_DEVICE} ${SERIAL_OPTS}
<sbalneav> jetpipe ${SERIAL_DEVICE} PORT
<sbalneav> ? :)
<ogra> cool
<ogra> i was planning to put jetpipe (at least for usb) into udev rules btw
<sbalneav> I'll poke around with it today.
<ogra> indeed for serial that wouldnt work
<ogra> (no udev detection)
<sbalneav> putting it in udev?
<sbalneav> Why not?
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> duh
<ogra> the kernel wont send a plug event there i think
<ogra> same as with serial mice
<sbalneav> You know you have a serial port, but no way to tell if a printers attached to it :)
<ogra> for serial and parallel we'll still need lts.conf
<sbalneav> Sure.
<sbalneav> That's acceptible
<ogra> right
<sbalneav> Oh, BTW, I got autologin going the other day on ldm2, and password expiry's about 3/4 done.
<sbalneav> the autologin's in my tree
<ogra> cool
<ogra> well, it works in the gutsy tree :)
<ogra> but thats hacked up indeed :)
<ogra> and old code
<ogra> sadly i missed the freeze date (thank you tooth !) so it has to wait until after tribe release
<Shadow31> Hello
<Shadow31> I've been having some trouble with a edubuntu server. I'm trying to install 7.04 (amd64 version) on the server, but the 'install' step fails at 6% every time.
<sbalneav> brb
<sbalneav> Back
<cliebow_> Side
<cliebow_> ltsp by the sea..held on the "Backside" of mdi
<Shadow31> I've been having some trouble with a edubuntu server. I'm trying to install 7.04 (amd64 version) on the server, but the 'install' step fails at 6% every time. Any ideas?
<sbalneav> Shadow31: Have you checked the md5sum of the cdimage you burned?
<Shadow31> Yes. The md5sum checks out. I've downloaded it several time from several different mirrors and burned it several times. It always fails on the same error.
<sbalneav> Same error?  Or same spot?
<sbalneav> If there's an error message, what is it?
<sbalneav> Have you looked on any of the other consoles, to see if there's any errors?
<sbalneav> ctl-alt-f1 through f9, I beleive
<Shadow31> In the last few lines it says 'Buffer I/O error on device sr0, logical block 308749', then it fails to retrieve pool/main/t/ttf-kochi-gothic_1.0.20030809-4ubuntu2_all.deb, saying there is a md5sum mismatch. Then  it says it failed to get some archives, and finally it says 'tasksel: aptitude failed (100)', then 'Warning **: Configuing '
<Shadow31> sorry, accidently pressed enter. The last line is 'Warning **: Configuring 'pkgsel' failed with error code 1'
<Shadow31> This is all on the fourth console, alt-f4
<sbalneav> Sounds like a read error on the cdrom
<sbalneav> Are you burning it on one cdrom drive, and then reading it on a different one?
<sbalneav> You might want to try a different drive, or sometimes I find that switching brands of writable cd's helps.
<jsgotangco> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello jsgotangco
<Shadow31> Hmmm. I could try a different brand of cd. The edubuntu installer, though, can't seem to handle an external CD drive.
<sbalneav> Which, a USB drive?
<Shadow31> Yes
<sbalneav> Should, that's how I install.
<Shadow31> Interesting, when I tried the external drive it wouldn't mount.
<Shadow31> I'm burning the cd on another computer and then reading in on the servers internal cd drive.
<Athanasius> hey sbalneav!
<mselva> hello, world.
<sbalneav> ogra: Still awake?
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<davmor2> ogra:  I'm testing the first batch of edubuntu iso's 32bit doesn't auto login on live cd
<davmor2> anyone know the username and password for the livecd?
<Burgundavia> davmor2: it doesn't have one
<Burgundavia> the username is ubuntu
<davmor2> sorted thanks
<davmor2> stgraber to the rescue :)
<stgraber> hehe
<davmor2> Burgundavia: is it the xclient script that is meant to log it in automatically or is sys/admin/login window meant to be setup as auto login?
<Burgundavia> davmor2: for that, I have no idea
<davmor2> never mind sort it out tomorrow now need to test on this machine so bye and thanks for the help
#edubuntu 2007-07-18
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
<Phrozen_One> how can I remove the local X server, but keep it working for the thin clients?
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<sbalneav> Morning all
<cliebow_> Ho
<moquist> sgonzalez: hey there
<moquist> sgonzalez: I was just about to ask. :)
<cliebow_> ask?
<moquist> I intermittently have trouble with Feisty install CDs. I get dropped to the (initramfs) prompt with the message "Can't access tty; job control turned off".
<sgonzalez> moquist: just sent you an email. looks like I need the LSI card. The adaptec does RAID with software and is troublesome.
<moquist> One time I got that on a TC, and the problem was that it couldn't mount root ('cuz I'd screwed up the server).
<ogra> it doesnt find the cd drive
<moquist> sgonzalez: oy
<moquist> ogra: makes sense. any idea why it would happen sometimes and not others, when you don't change the hardware? i.e., I reboot a few times and eventually it works.
<ogra> sounds liek a race condition
<moquist> Also, I read somewhere that you can select the "additional drivers CD" option and leave the install CD in there, and that makes it work. sometimes.
<ogra> if the Cd initiaizes fast enough it works ...
<moquist> ogra: yeah, it does.
<moquist> hrm.
<ogra> if it is delayed due to whatever it doesnt
<moquist> so is there anything better to do about this than reboot over and over until it works?
<moquist> I had *just* gotten started poking around in the init scripts in the initramfs when the system worked the next time I rebooted, so I stopped messing with it.
<ogra> well, its the installer ... thats something different
<cliebow_> is the problem the high compression in the cd?
<ogra> i really think its just related to spin-up speed
<moquist> OK, so perhaps a different burn could be better.
<moquist> A slower burn on a good-quality CDR would probably do better.
<moquist> sgonzalez: you following?
<moquist> (sgonzalez had this trouble this morning)
<ogra> well, you shouldnt burn bootable CDs faster than 8x anyway
<cliebow_> moquist:what are you working on these days? unh prep?
<sgonzalez> moquist: yes. I will try the original cd that actually installed. if that's the case, then it might be Dave's cd.
<moquist> cliebow_: unh is done. I'm working on pam-ssh (a project scottie and I cooked up) and getting schools up and running.
<moquist> sgonzalez: Yeah, Dave is *terrible* about burning CDs too fast.
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey, how's the tooth!
<moquist> sgonzalez: Unless there's a reason not to, I always burn CDs as slow as possible (I usually type 4 and get 8x).
<sbalneav> get my patches to jetpipe?
<sgonzalez> moquist: evil Dave!! I have drives formatting right now. When that's done, I'll get my CD and try.
<ogra> sbalneav, the tooth was fine yesterday already ... the rest is dizzy and on drugs ....
<moquist> ogra: thanks; that makes perfect sense and is probably what is going on. This should be googleable somewhere...
<ogra> sbalneav, yes, but i'm totally into iso building/testing/fixing atm
<sbalneav> OK, I'll leave you to it.
<cliebow_> moquist: i have umpteen laptops to reimage..four labs torn to hell..
<cliebow_> 315 lab->316  312 lab->315 208 lab->312 308 lab->208 plato lab ->313..
<moquist> blee. sounds grand.
<sgonzalez> moquist: after formatting the drives and using another CD, things are progressing. might even work *gasp* I'll let you know. I do get error when loading the installer, but googling tells me that a lot of people get the same ones.
<cliebow_> brb
<moquist> sgonzalez: sounds good
<moquist> sgonzalez: BTW, I forgot to recommend XChat, which is my preferred IRC client for Winders(TM).
<sgonzalez> moquist: I'm actually using xchat... I feel like such a pro ;) So edubuntu is installed. I'm testing with a client right now. So far a really slow boot, but there's the login screen just now.
<sgonzalez> I forgot to partition during install. Can I do it now or do I need to reinstall for that?
<moquist> sgonzalez: Yeah, that's going to require a reinstallation.
<moquist> sgonzalez: how slow is a "really slow boot"?
<moquist> sgonzalez: and FWIW, you're in exactly the right place to discuss it. :)
<sgonzalez> Not sure.. I'll time it next time, but it's a few minutes. Thought it was going to crash when loading X.  Second login is quicker. Installing updates now. Then I'll winbind it to ADS and try with non-local users. That'll be the real test.
<moquist> Then try it with a user whose account is in AD and whose home directory is on your Edubuntu+winbind server.
<moquist> ogra: surely it would be possible to munge about at the (initramfs) prompt to re-initialize the installer, re-init the CDROM, and try again?
<ogra> probably
<ogra> but you get that propmpt in various other cases as well
<ogra> that would ecome a long text ;)
<Athanasius> can somebody help me with a login problem on a thin client?
<Athanasius> I am not able to log in on the thin client
<ogra> did you change any IP settings of the server after you set up ltsp ?
<ogra> if so, run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<Athanasius> no
<Athanasius> I just make users like normal right?  Like on a regular desktop?
<ogra> you make them on the server ... just use the gui tool ;)
<Athanasius> system>admin>Users and Groups right?
<ogra> yep
<Athanasius> hmm...
<Athanasius> does the server and the clients have internet by default?
<Athanasius> everything is working fine now, do I have to update the sshkeys every time I add a new user?
<ogra> no
<ogra> only if you change the ip settings of the interface the clients are connected to
<ogra> (which usually never heppens ;) )
<moquist> sgonzalez: Edubuntu TCs will boot more slowly than K12LTSP TCs for now. The next release of Ubuntu (October) will see a big improvement in TC boot time.
<moquist> sgonzalez: remember when I said that was the only significant drawback of Edubuntu? :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | feisty (7.04) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download | Upgraders see: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes | Use https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuFAQ as starting point for questions |
<ogra> gah
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | feisty (7.04) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download | Upgraders see: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes | help testing tribe3 candidates: https://isotesting.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/Ed
<ogra> GAH
<ogra> sorry for the noise ... one more
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | feisty (7.04) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download | help testing tribe3 candidates: https://isotesting.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/Edubuntu
* mode/#edubuntu [-o ogra]  by ogra
<ogra> looking for amd64 testers specifically ;)
<stgraber> ogra: I posted in #ubuntu-iso as well, let's see if some of our amd64 testers are available
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i386 server worked fine for me btw ...
<stgraber> (my only amd64 computer is my laptop and I never do testing on it)
<stgraber> ok, I'm downloading the iso, will have it in ~10 min
<ogra> same here ... with the difference that i'd do testing but ran out of diskspace to do so
<ogra> and it doesnt boot from usb :/
<mcsd> does xorg.conf get read at every boot? m
<Shadow31> Hey, all. I've been having problems with Firefox on my LTSP thin client network. Firefox boots fine off of the server, but on the thin client it opens and then immediately closes. Running it from the terminal, the error message is: "Segmentation fault (core dumped)". I tried reinstalling Edubuntu, and the problem still occurs. I am using XDMCP to connect to the thin clients. Ideas, anyone?
<sbalneav> Shadow31: How much ram on the thin clients, and do you have network swap turned on?
<LaserJock> is the meeting over?
<juliux> LaserJock, there was no meeting yet;)
<LaserJock> oh, really?
<juliux> no traffic in -meeting sind 20:05
<Knightlust> heh, i just logged in.
<moquist> LaserJock: hey!
<Knightlust> so will the meeting push through?
<LaserJock> ogra: are we having a meeting?
* Knightlust will hunt for bugs in the mean time
<LaserJock> hi pips1
<pips1> hi LaserJock
<pips1> isn't there a meeting?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I don't see RichEd
<pips1> hm
<LaserJock> and I haven't heard anything from ogra yet
<pips1> I heard you are taking some time off?
<LaserJock> I guess that means we get to run our own meeting!
<LaserJock> yes
<pips1> in what way?
<LaserJock> I just dropped by for the meeting (to bug ogra about some stuff) :-)
<LaserJock> well, I gotta get my PhD done real soon
<pips1> I notice you still post to the mailing list...
<pips1> ic
<LaserJock> and I've been neglecting family, house, etc.
<LaserJock> yes, I'm basically just using email
<LaserJock> and getting rid of projects
<pips1> irc is a time sucker
<LaserJock> handing things off to other people
<LaserJock> it is
<LaserJock> and I keep ending up volunteering for things when I'm on IRC :-)
<pips1> hehe
<LaserJock> so I'm taking a bit of a vacation
<LaserJock> to get real life in shape
<pips1> well, everyone does what they can... I've also been very busy with RL
<pips1> good
<LaserJock> I think I was fairly close to loosing my PhD, which isn't good
<pips1> woah!
<pips1> no good
<LaserJock> well, I put in 50+ hrs/week on Ubuntu for almost 1.5 years
<LaserJock> you just can't do research and write, etc. with that
<pips1> that's a lot of time investment!
<LaserJock> especially when it's volunteer
<pips1> yeah
<LaserJock> as I can't do "but I'm getting paid for it" to justify it ;-)
<pips1> I hear you
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> I do wonder what's up with RichEd and ogra
<LaserJock> I wonder if they had a conf call or something
<LaserJock> or another meeting
<pips1> is ogra travelling? he was attending a sprint, no?
<pips1> anyway
<LaserJock> I thought he was back
<LaserJock> anybody got news worth discussion?
<pips1> btw, I will start teaching a course at my uni next semester in web engineering... I'm preparing for that
<LaserJock> while we're waiting
<pips1> well, did you see my post about the Intel joins OLPC ?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I saw something about it the other day
<LaserJock> I'm a little puzzled as to what the point is
<pips1> ?
<LaserJock> well, Intel joins the OLPC board but continues to make ClassmatePC
<LaserJock> does Intel joining the OLPC board do anything other than nice "We love each other"  PR boost?
<pips1> well, do you know if they continue with the classmatepc for sure? I suppose they wont drop it, since it must have been quite an investment... and they already started selling them...
<LaserJock> I believe I read that they were continuing with the ClassmatePC, "business as usual"
<LaserJock> I wonder if the ClassmatePC will get an XO interface or something
<LaserJock> I did see that OLPC will be using Intel processors for the OLPC server
<pips1> oh
<pips1> olpc has a server ?
<LaserJock> well, you can't just have a million OLPC laptops running around a country
<LaserJock> :-)
<pips1> heh
<LaserJock> you gotta be able to flash the hard drives
<LaserJock> provide infrastructure, etc.
* pips1 reads http://wiki.laptop.org/go/School_server
<LaserJock> I think they had a logo thingy that went, "One laptop per child, one server per classrom"
<pips1> heh
<LaserJock> highvoltage and I had some ideas about classroom servers
<LaserJock> when we were in Sevilla
<pips1> ?
<pips1> go on
<LaserJock> well, it seemed like a thin client might be an interesting starting point for one of these servers
<pips1> I don't understand
<LaserJock> that is, the thin client hardware, not a thin client in general
<LaserJock> well, these schools are going to need low spec servers as well
<LaserJock> they need to be cheap, quiet, light, and low energy
<pips1> right
<pips1> but what about storage?
<LaserJock> similar to the Classmate PC
<LaserJock> big flash disks
<LaserJock> perhaps you could get away with one of those small hardrives
<LaserJock> but you probably could make one without a fan
<LaserJock> probably battery powered even
<LaserJock> course I'm no hardware expert so I could be just full of crap ;-)
<pips1> hehe
<LaserJock> but it is something that Intel will need to figure out for the Classmate
<pips1> change of topic: what do you think about os on a usb stick?
<LaserJock> as in running the whole OS off of a stick?
<pips1> yes, i.e. you just "borrow" the keyboard, screen... from wherever you are.
<pips1> and carry your personal os, with your configuration and data, in your pocket?
<LaserJock> well, at least at this point, it seems like you need pretty minimal or specialized OSs to do it well
<LaserJock> some people have put Ubuntu on USB sticks
<pips1> backup would need to be solved somehow... but other than that?
<Knightlust> I've been using Puppy linux while travelling since i dont want to lug around a heavy laptop.
<LaserJock> I've wanted to do it before when I've gone to my parents
<pips1> Knightlust: right!
<stgraber> Works fine on USB HDD, on flash memory you have the maximum number of rewrite which will cause problem
<stgraber> with swap and tmp for instance
<LaserJock> what'd be nice is if it was more like a portable OS
<LaserJock> where you had your home machine
<LaserJock> then you plug in your USB disk and sync up
<LaserJock> go wherever, do whatever
<LaserJock> come back, plug it back in, and it syncs from the stick
<stgraber> Installing on a laptop IDE HDD inside one of those USB IDE box works really fine, 20GB with swap+/+home, usb bootable and no problem with Xorg as xorg.conf is no longer needed with gutsy
<pips1> LaserJock: so you would prefer os and configuration on stick, but data remote... hmmm. but what if you don't have network access to your data?
<LaserJock> pips1: no, data on stick too, but easily syncable when I get back
<pips1> stgraber: interesting
<LaserJock> I want to be able to use a stick when traveling, etc. but I don't want to use it *all* the time
<LaserJock> stgraber: yeah, I'm worried about the max, rewrites on the ClassmatePC
<pips1> ha
<LaserJock> it's not like you can just drop in a new drive
<LaserJock> at least I don't think so
<LaserJock> you can use the SD slot though and do most stuff there
<Knightlust> btw, i assume that the meeting is cancelled then.. there isn't any outstanding stuff to discuss on anyway, right?
<Knightlust> except for tribe3
<LaserJock> well, I assumed we'd get a tech update from ogra on Tribe 3 stuff
<LaserJock> I'm waiting on oli to look at a new meta-package I made
<Knightlust> i see, hehe. ayt then, better get back to work.
<pips1> yeah, I will wonder off too, it's late here..
<pips1> *wander
<LaserJock> pips1: any status on edubuntu.org?
<pips1> stgraber: you don't feel tired, do you?
<pips1> LaserJock: same. no progress whatsoever :-(( I haven't heard anything from highvoltage either
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> sounds like we are all in the same boat
<pips1> rowing RL
<LaserJock> amen to that ;-)
<pips1> :-)
<stgraber> pips1: well I didn't sleep much with this tribe-3 testing :)
<stgraber> pips1: but as I'm on holiday it helps
<pips1> stgraber: oh, you are testing... nice!
<stgraber> pips1: yep + fixing reported bugs for isotesting.stgraber.org, writing spec+bug report, usual work ... :)
<pips1> btw, I was mightily impressed with your test-tracking-website :-)
<stgraber> when I've some time I'm also working on a reworked version of the thin-client-manager
<pips1> great
<stgraber> with less buggy VNC and better classroom overview (installing it in a secondary school here for testing)
<pips1> nice one
<stgraber> http://www.stgraber.org/download/tcm.png
<pips1> is your testing low-profile / below the radar ... or do have support from the school?
<stgraber> it's just "private" testing in my father's classroom, goal is then to present a working classroom to the RPN
<pips1> *click*
<stgraber> Computer School network for the canton of Neuchatel
<LaserJock> stgraber: excellent
<pips1> stgraber: very nice
<LaserJock> well, I guess I better be off before I volunteer myself for something ;-)
<stgraber> LaserJock: :)
<LaserJock> it was nice to drop in and see you all
<LaserJock> and I *do* check email so if you do need something from me that's the way to go
<pips1> stgraber: if you need help convincing the authorities... when we were down in Seville, we visited the local governments ICT management center, where they manage the whole district's school network...
<pips1> LaserJock: alright. nice to talk to you too
<pips1> oops
<pips1> stgraber: ... I was thinking that our swiss educational / ict authorities should go an visit them..
<pips1> they can provide data about their experiences... costs, benefits, problems and their solutions...
<stgraber> goal so far is to end up with an official test project in a primary or secondary school to evaluate the real costs, usability, needs for a ubuntu/edubuntu based installation
<stgraber> with or without thin clients
<pips1> good goal
<stgraber> (as I only have one 2Ghz server and 6 <500Mhz clients for the current classroom, I was almost force to use thin clients here :))
<pips1> :-)
<stgraber> and the 2Ghz really has problem handling 6 clients, I'll add 1GB of ram next week and hope things will go better
<stgraber> a dual-core system when it's about running hundreds of processus
<stgraber> a dual-core system is so much faster when it's about running hundreds of processus
<pips1> I wouldn't know
<pips1> good luck with your project !!
<stgraber> at least we now have kerberos/ldap/local account syncronisation working which was the first main problem, the rest being details like reseting students accounts every time they log in, Microsoft Terminal Server access (rdesktop) and things like that
<stgraber> and of course for the teachers to actually use it :)
<pips1> If you think I might be able to help, don't be shy to get in touch
<stgraber> sure
<pips1> re kerberos/ldap ... I assume you configured all that manually yourself then?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> even had to write a small PAM module for local account creation
<pips1> !
<pips1> stgraber: sounds like you are quite determined and with the technical wits to steam ahead! :-)
<pips1> stgraber: it's encouraging to hear that you are going for it. I figured that the swiss are too rich, happily throwing their money around, paying those license fees.. ;-)
<pips1> hi ogro
<pips1> hi ogra
<pips1> we were hoping for a tech update from you.. :-D
<pips1> ogra the bot
<pips1> stgraber: aren't there any problems with course materials (flash, director) that only work on windoze or mac, in Neuchatel?
<stgraber> pips1: reason why they have a Windows link on their desktop opening a rdesktop on a Windows Terminal Server
<stgraber> for Win-Only application
<stgraber> pips1: anyway, the most used ressources are simple website, so a firefox+flash plugin is enough in most cases
<pips1> ic
<pips1> so the flash content is fairly old (flash 7)...
<stgraber> they have the flash 9 plugins + a custom librairy in order to have sound working on the thin clients as well
<pips1> they?
<stgraber> so they could even use some of those language flash software I've seen using speaker/microphone without any problem
<stgraber> first they = thin clients
<stgraber> second = students
<pips1> aha
<pips1> the the proprietary flash plugin is available at version )?
<pips1> *version 9?
<stgraber> yes
* pips1 goes and checks
<pips1> oh
<stgraber> Firefox says : Shockwave Flash 9.0 r31
<stgraber> here
<stgraber> (gutsy)
<pips1> alright
<stgraber> feisty already has a 9.0 version IIRC
<stgraber> or it's in feisty-backport
<pips1> I kept putting off my dist-upgrade from dapper (!) ... but dapper is real old.. so I gotta do it
<stgraber> I'm also starting to have some hardware issue when installing dapper on fresh hardware
<stgraber> hopefully gutsy+1 should be LTS
<pips1> so the school's got a windows terminal server. what will your "sales pitch" for edubuntu be?
<stgraber> the terminal server I'm using is one used by another school with some Linux terminals
<stgraber> all the others computers have local Windows XP Pro installed
<stgraber> main advantage of Edubuntu as I currently do it (thin clients), is the easy maintenance and update it provides
<stgraber> you just configure and update a single server
<stgraber> also way more customizable than what they can do with Windows, for primary schools they'd also have tons of funny software
<stgraber> to learn numbers, vocabulary, ...
<pips1> hmm
<stgraber> for the secondary level it's more focused on the science tools (ok, we have LaserJock so ...) :)
<pips1> so you would do a demo and then try to convince them to replace the windows workstations with linux thin clients?
<pips1> the question is: replace? or add?
<pips1> if you *add* the linux thin client solution, there is even more software to maintain...
<stgraber> they won't easily switch a 4000 computers network from Windows to Linux (4000 is a fictive number, but that's all school computers of the canton of neuchatel)
<pips1> nope
<pips1> unless there is a clear political decision made
<pips1> based on facts about benefits...
<stgraber> current goal is to show to their techs that it's actually possible to switch, let them play with it and hope they'll enjoy Linux/Ubuntu and want to switch schools
<pips1> please don't think I'm discouraging you. I think a pilot test is a great first step
<stgraber> the only quick way to have things to change is by a political decision, but It's not likely to happen yet
<pips1> yeah, winning the techie stakeholders is important
<stgraber> Looks like guys here don't have any problem depending on Microsoft and other proprietary softwares/standards
<pips1> nah, it's easier to swim with the big stream
<Burgundavia> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7064252512.html <-- useless Windows software comes to Linux
<pips1> nobody likes to take "unnecessary" risks, especially not school authorities... and in switzerland, the pain (from proprietary stuff/license costs) is just not big enough, me thinks
<stgraber> Burgundavia: I heard of that thing, is this the one that simply restore a disk image, downloaded from the network every time you boot the computer ?
<Burgundavia> stgraber: doesn't do it from the network, it does it from a special partition
<Burgundavia> the issue is that you need do backflips to update it
<stgraber> we have more or less similar system at school with local ghost images on all computers, in case of problem you put a restore CD which simply runs ghost and 5 minutes after you have a clean system, but reseting it every-time you boot it is just stupid in my opinion
<stgraber> that just means that you have bad sys admins who are unable to configure correctly your system :)
<pips1> stgraber: just to let you know. i canton zurich, one of the showstoppers is one particular required course material, a 'director' authored french language cd-rom commissioned by the canton itself.
<stgraber> :(
<pips1> good talking to you
<pips1> i'm off, see you!
#edubuntu 2007-07-19
<Tophe1> Hey, has anyone here used Edubuntu on an older Dell laptop?
<Tophe1> No one...? Is anyone here who has had luck with Edubuntu on an older computer in general?
<Tophe1> I have an old Inspiron with 512 MB RAM and 2 GHz processor but it runs slowly and I'm not sure why.
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh. thats stil new to me
<joebob777as7> i can't figure out how to install wine on edubuntu... any ideas? it's not in the apt database
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Hobbsee> greetings all.  edubuntu cds for tribe 3 need testing, preferably before we release it.  the cds are at https://isotesting.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/Edubuntu
<LaserJock> ogra: around?
<scane> Hi. I am planning to use an old notebook with xubunut 7.04 to use as a client for edubuntu server 7.04
<scane> s/xubunut/xubuntu/
<scane> (the notebook pcmcia network card cannot pxe boot because it needs drivers loaded first)
<scane> If I want to connect with X from the notebook to the server - is there a special way of config needed on the server?
<Kamping_Kaiser> you need to allow x connections from remote hosts
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure if feisty lets you do that though
<mcsd> can someone help ... I can't seem to find specs on this Dell E173FPc 17" monitor and my OS display looks like a tv without reception
<mcsd> the image is sliced and stretched
<sbalneav_> Morning all
<mcsd> can someone tell me how to refresh/reload gnome
<sbalneav_> mcsd: what do you mean, exactly?
<mcsd> ctrl+alt+bksp reloads xorg but I forget the terminal command
<mcsd> sudo /etc/gdm restart?
<sbalneav_> sudo invoke-rc.d gdm restart
<mcsd> what is the init.d file?
<sbalneav_> /etc/init.d/gdm
<mcsd> what is the difference between the two?
<sbalneav_> invoke-rc.d is the "proper" way to restart init files.
<sbalneav_> If they ever decide to move the init files from /etc/init.d, invoke-rc.d will be changed to know about that.
<sbalneav_> so, theoretically, it should work no matter where the init file is.
<mcsd> ahhh so invoke-rc.d is similar to a script
<sbalneav_> invoke-rc.d is a script, yes.
<sbalneav_> that knows where the init scripts are, and calls them.
<mcsd> sbalneav_: thank you
<sbalneav_> NP
<cbx33> ping stgraber
<stgraber> cbx33: pong
<cbx33> i see you're planning to rewrite tcm?
<stgraber> cbx33: yes, I'm spending some of my free time working on another frontend to the python tcm module
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> well i was interested in your idea to rewrite the VNC stuff
<cbx33> that was on my agenda
<cbx33> would you be interested in working on tcm as opposed to another front end?
<stgraber> sure
<cbx33> My dev time is going to be reduced a little
<cbx33> and I've been hoping to find someone to collab with to make tcm even better
<cbx33> I would much prefer to work with someone on it
<cbx33> than someone to do all the work from scratch
<stgraber> my VNC part is rather easy as I'm not using resized VNC window or any stuff like that but screenshots generated on the clients and store on the server
<stgraber> then I simply show them as icon
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> well
<stgraber> and open vncviewer only when you double-click
<cbx33> that was the way I was going to implement it
<cbx33> how often are they updated?
<stgraber> done every 5s and display refresh every 2s
<cbx33> i see
<cbx33> what's the CPU load on that
<cbx33> you're taking a full screenshot using??
<stgraber> I'd like to move the screenshot part to the clients themselves so with no load on the server
<stgraber> scrot at the moment
<cbx33> i see
<cbx33> that was my plan
<cbx33> hence why i left it with vnc
<stgraber> I can't really talk about the CPU usage of the GUI as I'm running it on my laptop which is a Core 2 Duo :), even with 100 clients simulated refreshed every 2s it never went over 1% of CPU :)
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> so you resize the screen
<cbx33> or does scrot take small screenshots?
<stgraber> and the thing I like the most with my GUI is the iconview part, being able to logout only a part of the class, or execute firefox for some of them, ...
<stgraber> It took too much CPU load to resize after taking the screenshot, so I let gtk do that :)
<stgraber> but when it'll run on the clients, resizing on them could be a good idea
<stgraber> to have an even lower CPU usage on the server
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> so where does gtk do the resizing?
<cbx33> you just set the icon to be X.png
<cbx33> and it resizes it?
<cbx33> automagically?
<stgraber> lsIcon.append((gtk.gdk.pixbuf_new_from_file_at_size(path,128,128), "Client "+clientid+"\n<i>"+item[1] +"</i>",item[2] ,item[1] ,int(item[0] )))
<stgraber> creates an icon with "Client X", the username in italic below and the icon resized to 128x128
<stgraber> I just checked, with a 1680x1050 screenshot shown 32 times and refreshed every 2 seconds, it takes ~8% of one of my core
<stgraber> I'll do the same test with 128x128 screenshot
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'm hoping to write a C based screen graber tightly integrated with X
<stgraber> CPU usage is now ~4%
<stgraber> CPU usage of 1.8% with refresh at 5s
<LaserJock> ogra: got a second?
<phitoo> Hello! I'm having a devil of time setting up etherboot on a CF card. The downloaded zhd image from ROM-O-MATIC just doesn't seem to work.
<phitoo> I'm open to suggestions, if any?
<sbalneav_> phitoo: CF card?  A PCMCIA card?
<phitoo> sbalneav: Compact Flash card.
<phitoo> sbalneav: Should behave as a hard disk.
<sbalneav_> ah
<unix4me> how do I add another clef in Denemo?
<jaytux> exit
<jm1111> Hello
<jm1111> Is there anyone here that could provide advice over which flavor of ubuntu to install on a server for a school that would promarily be running mysql for a student information system?
<stgraber> if you don't need a gui, simply install ubuntu server
<jm1111> What if I would like a gui?
<stgraber> then install any desktop flavour, but this will eat some memory for sure and add some possible vulnerabilities (on an intranet it's no problem though)
<stgraber> you can also install a ubuntu-server and then add gnome on top of it but that'd be pretty similar than installing directly an ubuntu desktop and add server packages to it
<jm1111> ok
<stgraber> for me a server = headless computer, reason why I proposed ubuntu-server :) otherwise as ubuntu packages are available on all ubuntu flavour you can choose the one you like the most
<jm1111> I have edubuntu currently installed and tried setting up a service to automatically run following directions as if it were ubuntu but for some reason it just wont run.  So now I'm thinking I should just install ubuntu and deal with the command line install...
<jm1111> I definately agree with your logic
<jm1111> Thank you for your help!!  I think I'll start working on setting up ubuntu server.
<stgraber> the wiki is generally of great help for all server related things
<stgraber> sometimes you even have many solutions to one precise problem :)
<jm1111> great!  Thats handy! :)
<jm1111> Has anyone hear heard anything about an open source ZIS?
<stgraber> ZIS ?
<stgraber> http://www.microsoft.com/education/zis.mspx <-- like this ?
<jm1111> Zone Intregration Server ... School Interopability Framework ...
<jm1111> Yup you got it exactly thats not open source though is it?
<jm1111> Well I am just researching at this point in one of my searches there was some mention of ubuntu and openZIS but it seems to have died away.
<jm1111> Its too bad ... it seems like it would be real handy for a guy in my position the way schools and data is going
<jm1111> Anyway ... take care and thanks again for the advice!
<stgraber> no problem and good luck
<stgraber> :(
<multik> greetings ogra :)
<multik> I heard good news ;)
#edubuntu 2007-07-20
<Tom47> i was wondering is there any documentation that an administrator might refer to eg ... how to limit internet access?
<Tom47> i suppose thats two questions .... ok one at a time ...
<RichEd> Tom47: limit in what way ?
<Tom47> how do you limit/manage/control thin client internet access?
<RichEd> that is not really an o/s or Ubuntu function, it comes more under 3rd party filtering
<Tom47> ummm it woul be a real issue for a school though ....
<RichEd> oh ... I see what you mean now ... but that would really again be done against the user logged in, regardless of what sort of workstation i.e. fat / thin
<Tom47> thin
<RichEd> i mean that fat or thin is not the issue, it would be against user logged in ...
<Tom47> yes true but would apply to classes of users eg students, employeess, etc
<Tom47> yes riched sorry i misread yu initially
<RichEd> I'm guessing that you'd use a firewall / proxy programme, looking at each user by login name ...
<RichEd> so if BobC logged in from the LAB using a thin client today, and then via a fat client in the library tomorrow, you'd want both sessions to be logged, stats accumulated etc. against the user
<Tom47> wouldn't a school want to implement policies thoughwhich applied to everyone rather than needing to set up each sudent individually?
<RichEd> so you'd make a policy for "members of the group students" another for "members of the group staff" and add user BobC to the group students
<RichEd> i think there may be some ideas on this in the wiki ... let me do a quick search
<Tom47> ok ty
<RichEd> Tom47: this is the best I can find at the moment ...
<RichEd> try ogra when he wakes up again later
* RichEd needs to go to a meeting
<Tom47> ok ty
<ogra> Tom47, for professional solitions (i.e. standalone firewall machine) we have smootwall on the server addon CD ... you can just install a commandline system on a spare machine with two NICs and install smothwall on top ...
<ogra> if you want filtering directly on the server have a look at willow (its in universe)
<ogra> (not sure about its status though)
<Amaranth> definitely proof-of-concept
<Amaranth> much more work than i had expected
<ogra> Amaranth, well, white/blacklisting works, no ?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> except the error pages you get instead don't
<ogra> i think thats the main concern for schools
<ogra> even though you shouldnt run firewals on a server anyway :)
<rYu> uhm..
<rYu> anyone here?
* ogra waves
<`6og> hi :)
<rYu> uhm..
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<Tom47> ogra what is the thinking behind non-running of firewalls on the server?
<ogra> Tom47, well, a firewall is a security barrier
<ogra> you dont even want user accounts on such a thing if you want real security
<Tom47> oic
* ogra knows people that even compile monolithic kernels for firewalls to make it more secure)
<Tom47> i just installed willow ..... now to get it to run !!!!
<Tom47> ok
<ogra> you usually also dont install any stuff beyond what you need ... i.e. no compiler so hackers dont have opportunities to change binaries in case they break in etc
<Tom47> the thing we are trying to achieve here is basically to continue to allow access to the net from the server for software updates ec but prevent user browsers from going anywhere but to the apps on the server
<Tom47> yes ... ok .... am only setting out on the pth to server wisdom and appreciat the insight
<Tom47> the main browser app on the server is one based on tomcat/mtsql and i would like it isolated from exernal access as well
<Tom47> mysql
<`6og> Tom47, make it run on loopback
<Tom47> it is presently accessed via 127.0.0.1:81880 ... is that what you mean by 'on the loopback' ?
<Tom47> 8180*
<`6og> make it run on any 127.*.*.* address
<Tom47> ok right yes ty and that stops any external access ?
<`6og> should do
<lu> hi
<lu> someone helpme to configure wifi -wpa ?
<lu> there's someone ?
<Tom47> yes but my speciality is asking questions at this stage of my knowledge of edubuntu specifics
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sgonzalez> I'm trying to connect my edubuntu servers to Active Directory. I need to install kerberos (krb5-user) to do this, but when I try to install it, I get an error that it depend on krb5-config and that is not installable. Anyone have any ideas why?
<Kamping_Kaiser> sgonzalez, what version of ubuntu?
<sgonzalez> edubuntu 7.04
<sgonzalez> I did this same process using ubuntu 6.06 and it worked great. I'm fairly new to Linux, so I don't understand why packages won't install.
<Kamping_Kaiser> sgonzalez, the package may have been made "badly"
<Kamping_Kaiser> i havent used 704, so i'm still trying to decide if i'll be any use *heh*
<sgonzalez> KK: besides googling looking for others' experiences and chats like this, any way to know if it actually works?
<Kamping_Kaiser> sgonzalez, can you give me the exact error your getting?
<Kamping_Kaiser> according to packages.ubuntu.com both packages exist, so i'm trying to work out the root of the problem
<sgonzalez> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<sgonzalez> krb5-user: Depends: krb5-config but it is not installable.
<sgonzalez> E: broken packages
<Kamping_Kaiser> sgonzalez, try and install krb5-config on its own
<sgonzalez> Errors out saying...
<sgonzalez> E: package krb5-config has no installation candidate
<Kamping_Kaiser> sgonzalez, run 'sudo apt-get update' then try again (could you pastebin the output of apt-get update and of your /etc/apt/sources.list too)
<sgonzalez> ARGH! My network is down for some reason. Maybe that's my problem (I'm chatting from a different machine) Give me a minute to check this out.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe. np
<sgonzalez> Well, I did mess up my gw setting, but after fixing it still can't install krb5-user or config. I don't know how to do a pastebin... can you tell me how?
<Kamping_Kaiser> !paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Kamping_Kaiser> have a look there ^^
<sgonzalez> alright... it's pasted at paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30553
<sgonzalez> I added my sources.list and now it's at 30554.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i hate my internet
<Kamping_Kaiser> sgonzalez, has anything been said after <Kamping_Kaiser> sgonzalez, wth? their both in universe :S. could you pastebin  your /etc/apt/sources.list file?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ?
<sgonzalez> It's there too... it's at pate.ubuntu-nl.org/30554
<sgonzalez> Don't hate your internet :(
<Burgundavia> stgraber: can I ask why you are rewriting the student control panel? /me is baffled
<cbx33> Burgundavia, afaik stgraber isnt going to any more
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> somebody talked him out of it?
<cbx33> we're going to collab to make tcm better
<cbx33> afaik
<cbx33> how are you anywho Burgundavia
<cbx33> been a while since we last spoke
<Burgundavia> pretty good
<cbx33> cool
<Burgundavia> register for courses on monday
<cbx33> oh?
<Burgundavia> yep, headed back to school\
<cbx33> what ya doin?
<cbx33> hey I would if i could
<cbx33> back to uni that is to do Comp Sci
<Burgundavia> Geography
* Burgundavia wonders if he should ask system76 for a laptop to "test"
* cbx33 tried out foresight today
<Burgundavia> foresight? the linux distro?
<Burgundavia> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-edu/2007-07/msg00001.html
<LaserJock> blah, is ogra not here?
<Burgundavia> I have  ogra has quit (Remote closed the connection)
<Burgundavia> two minutes before you arrived
<LaserJock> for goodness sakes
<LaserJock> that's my luck
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you around?
<CaPsULe> hillo 2 everybody
<CaPsULe> i need driver
<cliebow> LaserJock, isnt he flying to the U.S?
<LaserJock> oh, that could be
<cliebow> he said something about "stuck in Philly"
<cliebow> for 4 hours
<LaserJock> oh, he might be off to
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Live
<sbalneav> LaserJock: are you talkin' to me?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: any work on docs lately?
<sbalneav> None.
<sbalneav> When's my cut-off date?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: and hi!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: not for some time yet
<LaserJock> but we need to have a little early action at some point ;-)
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> well, I could start documenting the changes to LDM I suppose.
<sbalneav> I've got a LOT of LDM work to do this weekend (been slacking off) so I'll add that to the mix.
<LaserJock> np, just doing periodic pokes to make sure people are still alive :-)
<RichEd> hey LaserJock & sbalneav ...
<LaserJock> RichEd!
<sbalneav> Hey RichEd
<RichEd> yep ... ogra is winging his way across the big puddle in a parrafin budgie
* RichEd is already here ... in eugene in oregon
<RichEd> will see oliver tomorrow some time ... when he should be online again
<LaserJock> RichEd: oh man, I wish I could have made it
<LaserJock> for multiple reasons
<LaserJock> but it's expensive and I probably shouldn't take any time off of work
<RichEd> LaserJock: I don't it is such a "participant event" so much as a "show the potential clients"
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I'm supposed to be there "selling" a book
<RichEd> we'd prefer you to R&R and recharge ...
<RichEd> oh ...
<RichEd> speaking of R&R what are you doing on IRC ?
<LaserJock> I was looking for IRC
<LaserJock> I haven't gotten any email from you or ogra for days
<LaserJock> and you guys weren't here for the Edubuntu meeting yesterday
* RichEd imagines LaserJock in a 12 step meeting: "Hi, my name is Jordan and I'm ..."
<LaserJock> so I thought I'd pop in and see what's going on
<LaserJock> RichEd: yes, yes
<stgraber> LaserJock: not a lot of people was tbh :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: more than usual
<LaserJock> I counted 5 people
<RichEd> LaserJock: orga was supposed to chair it ... I am in the company strat meetings now ... and was transatlanticing myself during the meeting time
<LaserJock> yeah, makes sense
<stgraber> :), right usual = ogra, riched, you and me listening (sometimes after the meeting itself)
<LaserJock> RichEd you guys need to email edubuntu-devel when you're going away ;-)
<RichEd> Tue 6pm UTC+2 -> Thursday 10pm PDT ... ughh
<RichEd> LaserJock: I assumed ogra would be there ... I did ask him to lead
<LaserJock> anyway, I sidestepped ogra and got another MOTU to look over my package
<stgraber> Tribe-3 release time was quite late and I think ogra took some rest afterwards :)
#edubuntu 2007-07-21
<leetcharmer> hihi all
<leetcharmer> is there a way to connect to my edubuntu server without making a Thin Client have to boot into it?
<leetcharmer> like if it's already on my network
<leetcharmer> can I go to the terminal server client in ubuntu to gain access?
<elite1_> so how about that edubuntu
<ziroday> how well intergrated is ltsp
<Burgundavia> ziroday: quite. What sort of integration are you looking for?
<ziroday> well i need it to work out of the cd
<ziroday> no downloads
<Burgundavia> in that case, yes
<Burgundavia> get the desktop server cd
<ziroday> if i get the error - LTSP Chroot failed what does that mean?
<ziroday> and how can i fix it?
<Burgundavia> what did you download?
<ziroday> i downloaded server edition
<ziroday> 7.04
<ziroday> install went fine except go to Build LTSP Chroot, it immediately went to 50% then froze, after a bit it said LTSP Chroot failed
<ziroday> ltsp never worked
<Burgundavia> right, well if the chroot failed, it would
<ziroday> well what does that mean/
<Burgundavia> http://edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<ziroday> *?
<Burgundavia> were you following that?
<ziroday> no i was just following install instructions given to me on the cd
<Burgundavia> and it froze during install?
<ziroday> yes it stood at 50% for a long while and then gave me an error message
<ziroday> it was at 50% for about 10-15 mins
<Burgundavia> have you run a cd test?
<ziroday> yes no error
<ziroday> *errors
<Burgundavia> burn a new cd and try again
<Burgundavia> sorry, but I have to sleep
<ziroday> ok then thanks for helping anyways
<ziroday> thanks
<ziroday> its gonna take me 4 days to download cd anyway
<ziroday> can anyone help me with LTSP?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ziroday, ask your question, you might get help
<ziroday> Kamping_Kaiser: didnt work last time :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> last time may not have been your day ;), remember people arnt always around
<ziroday> i am trying to set up a LTSP server, and i keep getting the error on install that it cant complete step Build LTSP Chroot
<ziroday> and this prevents me from running LTSP after install complere
<ziroday> *complete
<Kamping_Kaiser> have you tried building a chroot after install is finished?
<ziroday> Kamping_Kaiser: unfortunatly the server is needed in indonesia where internet is still on par with dial up
<ziroday> and is constantly interupted
<Kamping_Kaiser> ziroday, hm. is this one fo the 'live cd's or an 'alternate cd'?
<ziroday> server
<Kamping_Kaiser> so its the blue+red ncurses installer?
<Kamping_Kaiser> if you hit alt+f4 (iirc) it will give you a debug console
<Kamping_Kaiser> you can look ther efor errors about what coud be causing the ltsp chroot build to fail
<ziroday> Kamping_Kaiser: thanks
<Kamping_Kaiser> ziroday, gl. let us know how it goes
<ziroday> Kamping_Kaiser: will do unfortunatly not in indonesia anymore so cant help the NGO
<ziroday> :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> while i'm not in the exact position, i understand the problem :|
<ziroday> yeah lol
<ziroday> does server edition have a gui?
<ziroday> is there a easy way to set up a raid which shared space between 3 drives?
<ziroday> or is what im asking impossible?
<ziroday> is anyone even here?
<ari_stress> hi all
<ari_stress> wazzup
<ari_stress> i'm new here
<cliebow> this gent needs to remove shutdown button from gdm
<ari_stress> oh, you;re there cliebow :D i didnt notice
<ari_stress> cliebow: i'll installed pessulus right after i finish upgrading my feisty
<cliebow> good luck..my boating job today so ill be out of touch
<ziroday> anybody here?
<ziroday> ill take that as a no
<ziroday> anybody?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ziroday, no one here knows probably
<ziroday> Kamping_Kaiser: thakns
<kamazu> hi everybody
<kamazu> is there someone who could answer me  a question regarding the lts.conf in edubuntu?
<Kamping_Kaiser> perhaps.
<kamazu> I need to pass XaaNoPixmapCache true to my HP thinclient
<kamazu> and the syntax is not clear to me
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. never needed that myself. hang around, someone may be able to help.
<Kamping_Kaiser> or try emailling the list
<kamazu> I tried X_DEVICE_OPTION_01="XaaNoPixmapCache" "true"
<kamazu> I am not sure X_DEVICE_OPTION_01 is supported in edubuntu...
<kamazu> thanks Kamping_Kaiser, I might try the mailing list, I was just hoping to get this done now :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> good luck with it :)
<john_s> Hi all: I want to mount an ext3 formated drive with data under ubuntu, just tossing the hd on an ide channel doesn't work, and ubuntu 6.06 fails with a message about usb errors. Is there some magic I should know when adding drives to my system?
<john_s> ls
<john_s> where do folks go to get answers to seemingly mundane questions these days?
#edubuntu 2007-07-22
<karl> i'm trying to get dual headed terminals booting in LTSP. I can get them to boot, but X won't start. I have their details specified in lts.conf, but it seems that they are still using the auto-generated xorg.conf files from boot. Any ideas?
<johnny> hi folks anybody about? i'm attempting to convert an existing ubuntu installation to use ltsp, and was wondering if anybody here could help me since #ubuntu is such a wasteland
<johnny> i've got the clients starting to boot, but they hang at the ubuntu logo
<johnny> and i can't even get to verbose mode
<Burgundavia> johnny: sounds like a problem with a chroot
<johnny> i got farther, figured out how to enable verbose mode from the pxe default config file
<johnny> suprised that debian has nice tools that ubuntu doesn't have
<johnny> my friend had been touting debian..and i was like what???
<johnny> anyways
<Burgundavia> johnny: what tools?
<johnny> some ltsp-admin
<johnny> cli admin interface for setting up clients
<johnny> it sets up nfs roots and mounts
<johnny> among other things
<johnny> didn't get to play much
<johnny> but back to ubuntu
<johnny> it's trying to load some amd64 file but i can't seem to figure out how
<johnny> cuz the server is amd64, but i built a i386 client
<johnny> it seems to be looking in the wrong place for tftp config
<Burgundavia> which version of Ubuntu are you using?'
<johnny> feisty
<Burgundavia> hmm
<johnny> uggh.. i guess i'll have to come back tomorrow
<johnny> thanks anyways .. it's definitely too late for tonight :)
<johnny> night
<zulfajuniadi> anyone knows how to solve my problem? i've set up a thin client booting off my edubuntu server, i can log in on my client, but "thin client manager" -> Screen viewer, it says unavailable, install x11vnc on client.
<Bambi_BOFH> have you installed x11vnc on the client?
<zulfajuniadi> its booting off 100% from the server, i did install it on the server though
<Bambi_BOFH> zulfajuniadi, did you install it in the clients chroot?
<zulfajuniadi> how do i do that?
<ogra> follow the howto ;) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
<zulfajuniadi> thanks m8 :)
<Bambi_BOFH> ogra, hi mate :)
<ogra> hey
* ogra waves from ubuntulive
<ogra> zulfajuniadi, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuFAQ might be a good starting point as well ...
<johnny> does edubuntu come with ltspcfg ?
<ogra> no, ltspcfg is ltsp4 stuff
<Kamping_kaiser> ogra, cool. *goes to look up ubuntu live * (grin)
<ogra> http://www.ubuntulive.com
<johnny> aha..
<ogra> johnny, ltsp5 sets up verything for you and does all stuff it needs automatic
<ogra> gutsy might get http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ (depending on my time i have left to finish it or someone stepping up to help on it)
<ogra> but thats only to override the autodetected settings ... usually autodetection works fine
<johnny> so which version is in regular ubuntu fiesty (i can't seem to remember the IP to login)
<johnny> where the box is
<Kamping_kaiser> to much automation -eq hard to administer (imo, of course)
<Kamping_kaiser> 5.x
<johnny> ok..
<johnny> i'm trying to do multiarch there
<johnny> the docs aren't very explicit tho
<ogra> i386 clients on amd64 server ?
<johnny> i386,ppc clients on amd64 server
<Kamping_kaiser> underway in Portland, OR <- whats OR?
<ogra> oregon
<Kamping_kaiser> ogra, ah
<Kamping_kaiser> johnny, you can build i386 clients iwht --arch=i386
<johnny> yes..
<johnny> did that
<ogra> johnny, ppc is somewaht tricky (we dropped official support for it in edgy ...)
<Kamping_kaiser> ppc has to be built on a ppc system and copied onto the server
<ogra> so its rather untested ...
<johnny> hmm..
<Kamping_kaiser> hm. fogot ppc was dropped (thats what happens when you stop at LTS)
<johnny> we have 4 PCs
<johnny> 2 i386 , 2 ppc
<johnny> kinda slow imacs
<ogra> we might pick up thin client ppc support again though if a customer pays for the development ...
<johnny> we're just a small collectively owned coffeeshop
<ogra> i.e. a ppc client manufacturer who is intrested in getting them running on ppc
<Kamping_kaiser> ogra, whats the chance of a purely community powered PPC thin client setup? slim?
<ogra> Kamping_kaiser, ask cliebow ;) he's the one keeping up the ppc flag in ltsp world  ;)
<Kamping_kaiser> ogra, so, i'll start sucking up to cliebow about nwo then ;)
<ogra> Kamping_kaiser, but as i said there are soe companies that produce ppc client HW ... they might come and pay for it ...
<johnny> so.. what i have to do .. is upgrade the ppc boxes to feisty, then install ltsp and then run ltsp build client and copy it to the server?
<ogra> right
<ogra> and the ppc dir under /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp
<johnny> and then to configure it on the server side i do what?
<Kamping_kaiser> ogra, might, we can only hope
<johnny> set it by mac addresses?
<ogra> you need to have a special dhcpd.conf for ppc
<johnny> i'm using dnsmasq there
<ogra> look at wiki.ltsporg
<Kamping_kaiser> you only need to do one system, not all the macs :)
<ogra> it doesnt really differ
<ogra> oh, no clue about dnsmasq here
<ogra> we use dhcpd3
<Kamping_kaiser> never used dnsmasq's dhcp server
<Kamping_kaiser> only its dns bits ;)
<johnny> oh i didn't realize you meant that there was no fesity for ppc. i thought you meant there was no edubuntu for it :)
<cottima> hello
<johnny> or no ltsp for it
<ogra> there is feisty ppc ...
<Kamping_kaiser> johnny, hehe
<johnny> but it's unsupported
<Kamping_kaiser> cottima, hi :)
<ogra> we just didnt test it as much
<johnny> well i'll prolly work
<johnny> worth a shot at least
<Kamping_kaiser> johnny, there are packages, its just not offical
<johnny> at least you guys can rely a bit on upstream debian
<ogra> debian is downstream
<johnny> they pull from you guys now?
<ogra> actually its at least two releases behind on ltsp
<ogra> they do since ltsp5 exists
<johnny> well.. i mean for the packages in general
* Kamping_kaiser resists the urge to do the usual ancient debian jokes
<ogra> right, there they are our base
<ogra> even though the most important packages are heavily modified
<Kamping_kaiser> johnny, iirc ltsp is one of the places that ubuntu does the work, and debian picks up the patches
<johnny> hmm.. good to know
<johnny> nice
<cottima> I want to back up the fat32 partitions on my clients for ltsp.  I have use ntfsclone (which copies used areas and metadata) and seen clonezilla (which claims to do something like ntfsclone, not like dd).  Has anyone used clonezilla or have a better suggest?  (Sorry for the long question.)
<johnny> personally use gentoo, but my gf , friends, and this shop all run gentoo
<johnny> err
<johnny> ubuntu
<ogra> why dont you just mount them ?
* johnny tries to wake up
<Kamping_kaiser> (as an aside, Spike Milligan is an absolute *Genius*)
<johnny> i use gentoo.. they all use ubuntu
<johnny> so i'm used to working with it
<johnny> of course.. my other true geeky friend is spouting off about debian :)
<Kamping_kaiser> cottima, i dont understand your situation
<cottima> Kamping_kaiser:  For backing up fat32 partitions:  I want to be able to mount the image later and not have a 10gb image for a 10 partition that only has 3gb used.  Ntfsclone does this.
<cottima> Am I making more sense? or not?
<ogra> cottima, just mount it
<ogra> then copy the contents
<Kamping_kaiser> cottima, i dont think i can help you :( i assume your running some new version of ubuntu, as i dont know anything about what your talking about :|
<Kamping_kaiser> rsync :)
<Kamping_kaiser> rsync -azv :)
<cottima> I am trying to look for software.
<ogra> backuppc ?
<Kamping_kaiser> compex, but does the job well
<Kamping_kaiser> *plex
<cottima> ogra,  are you saying fat32 has no metadata and just a copy does a good enough job?
<Kamping_kaiser> fat32 is useless :\
<ogra> cottima, well, why would you want to backup the fat sectors ?
<cottima> well, removing all partitions on the hard drive and if I missed coping something like a registration key.  I could later mount and run something like qemu or virtualbox.
<cottima> that is why I want to copy everything, but not have a 10gb image for a 10gb part w/ 3gb used.
<Kamping_kaiser> rsync might do what you want
<cottima> Well, I will use rsync or backuppc for another project, but I used dd yesterday and took 3 hours
<cottima> I have to go.  Thank you Kamping_kaiser and ogra!
<Kamping_kaiser> cottima, good luck
<cottima> thank you.  maybe like always I am making things complicated.  Have a good day.  Later
<zulfajuniadi> orga, i did install everything as on the
<zulfajuniadi> wiki but i still cannot see the thin clients monitor
<sbalneav> zulfajuniadi: it should be under System->Administration
<sbalneav> Thin Client Manager
<zulfajuniadi> it seems that there is an error while running x11vnc: BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied)
<zulfajuniadi> yes sbalneav. i'm aware of that
<zulfajuniadi> nyone knows how to solve my problem? i've set up a thin client booting off my edubuntu server, i can log in on my client, but "thin client manager" -> Screen viewer, it says unavailable, install x11vnc on client. after following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients , i still cannot see the thin clients monitor. it seems that there is an error while running x11vnc: BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied)
<sbalneav> zulfajuniadi: lets see if you've got everything installed that you need.
<sbalneav> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<zulfajuniadi> yes
<sbalneav> then lets do a dpkg -l | grep x11vnc
<sbalneav> What do you get?
<zulfajuniadi> ii  x11vnc                           0.8.2-1                                VNC server which uses your current X11 sessi
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> while still in the chroot, can you paste your /etc/rc.local to the pastebin?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<sbalneav> as well, also paste your /etc/lts.conf
<sbalneav> Let me know what the URL's are for those pastes.
<zulfajuniadi> /etc/lts.conf is using the default settings (i have not modified it)
<zulfajuniadi> x11vnc -display :6 -forever -loop &
<zulfajuniadi> thats the line before exit 0
<sbalneav> zulfajuniadi: I'd like to see the whole rc.local file, if you don't mind.
<sbalneav> paste it to the pastebin
<zulfajuniadi> everything before that line is commented (#), but if you want it anyway, http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/30801/
<sbalneav> ok, now lets look in /etc/rc2.d
<sbalneav> ls -la S99rc.local
<zulfajuniadi> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 2007-07-22 11:07 S99rc.local -> ../init.d/rc.local
<zulfajuniadi> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 2007-07-22 11:07 S99rc.local -> ../init.d/rc.local
<zulfajuniadi> sorry, hihi
<sbalneav> Looks ok.
<sbalneav> Let me set it up here on my box, see if I can get it working.
<zulfajuniadi> ok tq
<zulfajuniadi> restarting brb
<leetcharmer> hello everone
<leetcharmer> do you know how to setup a web-based media server with my edubuntu host?
<leetcharmer> so others can download files via a local website on the network?
<sbalneav> How complex a system are you looking for?
<sbalneav> Simple thing would be to just install apache, and set up your file area and some static web pages.
<leetcharmer> I want a website that will allow anyone on the network to access any of their files, uploading/downloading and streaming
<Kamping_kaiser> wb ogra
<leetcharmer> music/videos etc
<zulfajuniadi> sbalneav: issue resolved: apt-get install as root from the thin client
<leetcharmer> alternatively to a website, I would like the network share to be accessed as a drive on any windows/ubuntu comps on the network
<leetcharmer> so it can look like a local harddrive
<Kamping_kaiser> smb/nfs
<zulfajuniadi> and mount through fstab
<leetcharmer> I've installed samba
<leetcharmer> and I think I've created one user account
<leetcharmer> I don't know how to make others
<leetcharmer> just one for the administrator on the edubuntu host
<littlepaul> ping Kamping_kaiser :)
<zulfajuniadi> leetcharmer: System -> Administration -> Users and Groups?
<leetcharmer> I meant in samba
<Kamping_kaiser> littlepaul, hi mate
<zulfajuniadi> i dont think i follow you leetcharmer
<littlepaul> Kamping_kaiser, may I query you for some questions? :)
<leetcharmer> in order to login to a network share on my edubuntu system, I have to make different users, right?
<Kamping_kaiser> hm. i clearly have NFI about using rsync - i want to use it to save re downlaodign files. here i am downloading everying again :(
<Kamping_kaiser> littlepaul, sure. in PM or here as you will
<zulfajuniadi> leetcharmer: it depends on the settings i guess, if you use just the normal samba setting, it should work ok (as far as i remember).
<leetcharmer> what are the normal samba settings?
<zulfajuniadi> leetcharmer: how do you normally share a folder? through system -> administration -> shared folders?
<leetcharmer> never shared a folder before
<leetcharmer> I was just following some online terminal stuff
<zulfajuniadi> try through system -> administration -> shared folders, it should work ok.
<Kamping_kaiser> Mon Jul 23 03:46:05 CST 2007
<Kamping_kaiser> bleh.
<Kamping_kaiser> i need more red bull :(
<ogra> or a better timezone :)
<leetcharmer> it didn't work
<leetcharmer> I can't find the unix or samba share on the network
<Kamping_kaiser> ogra, yes, well thats a possible problem too :|
<zulfajuniadi> leetcharmer: ctrl + l in nautilus, write smb://10.0.0.10 (where 10.0.0.10 is your server's ip)
<leetcharmer> Sorry, couldn't display all the contents of "Windows Network: 192.168.1.107".
<zulfajuniadi> brb
<cliebow> Kamping_kaiser, fwiw http://169.244.3.137/dhcpd.conf
* Kamping_kaiser sees 169 and twitches
<leetcharmer> :( why can't I find my edubuntu share on the network?
<Patrick__> hello can someone tell me why my LTSP client stops with "Starting NBD client process: Connecting...Activating... nbd-client." on booting edubuntu from the edubuntu terminal server ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, can you give us any mroe dtails
<Kamping_Kaiser> ananas, is this the same error you get?
<Patrick__> i talked to ananas but he could not help
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, do you have a login on the client (to check logs)?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, have you looked in the server logs?
<Patrick__> no i can't login in the client and i looked into the syslog but i do not know what i should serch for
<sbalneav> Patrick__: Which version of edubuntu are you using?
<Patrick__> 7.04
<sbalneav> Do you get the login screen?
<Patrick__> no
<Patrick__> i just installed and edited the lts.conf (XSERVER=vesa) and then tried to boot the client
<sbalneav> So X doesn't start at all?
<Patrick__> no it does not
<sbalneav> What happens if you just get rid of the XSERVER line, and let ltsp autodetect the card?
<Patrick__> this means XSERVER=auto ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, #XSERVER=whatever
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, the XSERVER line (for all aparent needs and purposes) doesnt exist, its commented
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, hint: on my chroot i gave myself a login so i could log in and look at logs while using the system
<Patrick__> a) commenting XSERVER doesn't change anything b) what do you mean with giving yourself a login on your chroo
<Patrick__> t
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, i have a shell login (so i installed ssh into my chroot), so i can ssh into clients (it was useful for testing initally)
<Patrick__> my knowlege on linux is not so good that i could say that i know how to do this
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah right.
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, hi mate
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, `sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386`
<Kamping_Kaiser> blah!
<Kamping_Kaiser> i keep forgetting GTK uses ^W to close stuff :(
<RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser ... was just checking to see if you were alive ... but had unknown in the "last message" status
<Patrick__> ok
<Kamping_Kaiser>  RichEd well, i'm aliveish :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, sorry, where were we?
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: yep ... ^w gets me sometimes as well
<Patrick__> `sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386`
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, ah right. you should get a root shell (root@something~:)
<Patrick__> yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, then `adduser yourname` (yourname being whatever login you want)
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, there was something else, but my train of thoughts been derailed :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> whats the topic in here atm ? :(
<Patrick__> i added a user to the chroot as you told me
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, were you after me for any specific reason? btw, did you get my email re change of email addy for the next month?
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders how to view hte last sessions logs in xchat
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: no & no
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, hm.
<RichEd> 1. just a hi seeing as I am in a somewhat compatible time zone
<RichEd> 2. been busy with conference prep. so mail is priority number n+1
<Kamping_Kaiser> yep. understood
<RichEd> just done my session though ... so brain is now more available
<RichEd> just need to manage the education track for the rest of the day (as host) and then down to mingling and chatting
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, can you email me the last 10 minutes of logs from this channel before i closed the sess8ion?
<Patrick__> yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, you at the ubuntu live thingy too?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, i need it to get some contect back into my brain L:(
<Patrick__> can i send files with irc ?
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: yes ... had to deliver 1 session (reference case studies) and then host edu track
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, not sure....
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, my email is karl@itshare.org.au if it helps
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, cool.
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, i'm off to PNG in about 26 hours, so unless you catch me in the next day or so i'll see you in a month :o
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: best of luck ... try to avoid the head hunters unless you are *really* sure they are the job offer type ;)
<Patrick__> ok email was sent
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, thanks
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, well.... i'll try :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> *waits for email to arrive*
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. patrics gone
<Patrick__> sorry my firefox (and chatzilla) crashed
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, does fiesty have logging setup on the clients by default, or does it have to be turned on post install?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. anyone got a recomendation for a place to try and offer help at 5am ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Patrick__, where are you at with your problem?
<Kamping_Kaiser> bleh. gnight all
<Kamping_Kaiser> Mon Jul 23 05:36:16 CST 2007
<Kamping_Kaiser> time for bed
<Kamping_Kaiser> see you on the morrow perhaps, if not, around mid august
<cliebow> Hurray for Canada!
<Burgundavia> cliebow: ?
<cliebow> well....just been watching fifa under 20\
<cliebow> from toronto..
<cliebow> (i think)
<Burgundavia> yes, toronto
<Burgundavia> ironic that the biggest u20 ever was in a country not known for soccer
<cliebow> at least they put it on tv..my tv guide wont even list cbc
<cliebow> the Gernan Carl Heinz Runmenegge was a guy i always hollered for,.back when i was playing
<cliebow> nowits all i can do to get across the street..
#edubuntu 2008-07-14
<neil1> Hi, I have a problem, I have attached a printer to a terminal, and set it up correctly (I think) but it isn't printing. :(  I keep getting a "printer not connected" error.  Any Ideas whats wrong?
<LTSPTNK> does anyone have fat ltsp clients similiar to this help page?
<LTSPTNK> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
#edubuntu 2008-07-16
<edistar_> hi.. I have some share folders I need to have the users mount everytime they log on.. how can I achieve that?
<stgraber> you can have a look at pam_mount or if you don't need them to be mounted but just present in gtk's file chooser dialog you can add them to .gtk-bookmarks
<edistar_> ah, thanks
<edistar_> just present, they are on the same machine
<stgraber> so just google those two, there ought to be tons of examples as it's something extremely common as soon as you are setting up a Linux network :)
<edistar_> stgraber: the .gtk-bookmarks are in their home folder?
<edistar_> ok, thanks
<stgraber> yes
<edistar_> there isn't a global .gtk-bookmarks?
<stgraber> .gtk-bookmarks is basically what then appears in the Places menu, in the left side of nautilus and in the file chooser dialog
<stgraber> I don't know of a global gtk-bookmarks but that'd be handy for sure :)
<edistar_> stgraber: so I have to update every .gtk-bookmarks by hand?
<stgraber> you can put a script in /etc/xdg/autostart/ generating it
<stgraber> everything in that directory gets execute everytime a user opens a gnome (or kde) session, so you can place a script in it to generate ~/.gtk-bookmarks
<edistar_> stgraber: cool, thanks
<edistar_> stgraber: the scripts don't get run as the user, do they?
<stgraber> edistar_: they do
<edistar_> stgraber: doesn't work here
<edistar_> stgraber: I wrote a python script that works perfectly if run manually
<edistar_> but not automatically
<stgraber> hmm, look at the other files, they have to be .desktop files IIRC
<edistar_> but .desktop files can't do any python magic, can they?
<edistar_> what are .desktop files anyway?
<stgraber> .desktop define a title, description and the path to an executable
#edubuntu 2008-07-17
<kushalsejwal> hi guys
<kushalsejwal> its my first time on edubutu IRC channel
<kushalsejwal> anybody there
#edubuntu 2008-07-18
<TNKLTSP> guys, I have heard that there is a way to make the sounds work in flash + ltsp envinroment
<TNKLTSP> anyone bothered to let me know it
<TNKLTSP> google gives me couple of answears but the workarounds leads to broken link
#edubuntu 2008-07-19
<aarmelvin> ?
<aarmelvin> is there any Library Management Software available for Edubuntu..?
<aarmelvin> any OSS alternative for Library Management application
<aarmelvin> ?
#edubuntu 2008-07-20
<calimer> I'm writing an article on why developers should make educational games if anyone is interested in helping me proofread it
<reever> tach !
<reever> also , dass jetzt mit inyoka des edubuntu-forum in das Archiv verschoben wurde, finde ich gelinde gesagt suboptimal
<reever> des wirft edubuntu wieder n grosses stÃ¼ck zurÃ¼ck
<reever> wobei ich finde , dass gerade im privaten bereich Edubuntu o. halt LTSP grosses potenzial hat.
<reever> ohh sorry
<reever> iss here only an english channel ?
<reever> Edubuntu
<reever> ntu
<reever> srry wrong keyboard
#edubuntu 2009-07-13
<Ahmuck_> ah, an easy determination.  edubuntu is for hojme users only
<HedgeMage> How so?
<Ahmuck_> any practical installation in a school system is going to have some type of server/client installation and utilities
 * HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> Well, get involved, give feedback, and pitch in and help fill in any gaps you've found.
<HedgeMage> :)
<Ahmuck_> localapps don't work
<Ahmuck_> i've been in ltsp all night, and they don't show up on the menu
<Ahmuck_> anywho, that is ltsp
<Ahmuck_> anywho, it dawned on me, that any administrator of any school is going to want centralized management of apps.  edubuntu is really for home users.
<Ahmuck_> HedgeMage: how would you suggest i get involved?
<Ahmuck_> actually, i have a lot of "insight" to contribute, on how machines, users, etc. are managed, but i'm from the old unix world and then to windows then back to linux.  however outside of filing bug reports i'm not sure where i should be
<Ahmuck_> having edubuntu seperated into "primary, k-3, 4-6, etc." was a real step.
<HedgeMage> Ahmuck_: Well, for starters, what is your skill set, and what areas are you interested in enough to stick with?
<Ahmuck_> i'm a tech, a publisher, with networking experience
<Ahmuck_> i do managment, organization of people/things and connections
<Ahmuck_> i've done scripting, and have started to file bug reports, out of sheer frustration
<HedgeMage> A great thing to start with then, is to spec out tools thoroughly -- a lot of time the coders, when we have them, aren't sure what to code, or how to make it work most intuitively for schools.
<HedgeMage> If you can do a little scripting, it wouldn't take too much to get you coding, either.
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> You'll want to get pointers from someone more up-to-date than myself, too.  I've been nothing but a user the past couple of years, and that won't change until work and home calm down.
<Ahmuck_> HedgeMage: i do screenies for tutorials, and do some teaching.  i'm also involved in a lot of volunteer work outside of the whole computer scope.  i'm also long suffering, i've been working with this for about 9 months now :/
 * HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> I'm sorry I'm not more useful, I've just been out of the thick of things for too long.
<sbalneav> Evening all
<sbalneav> Ahmuck_: All the rest of Ubuntu's documentation is in docbook.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck_: And besides, if someone sends me something in OO.o, I've got no problem docbookifying it.
<Ahmuck_> HedgeMage: i'm good at doing diagrams, if i have a clue what connects to what
<Ahmuck_> nubea
<Ahmuck_> nubae
<southpaw> Hello, is there anybody who might be able to help me with a camera issue?
<southpaw> I have a Canon G10 that is recognized by Edubuntu, will show the thumbnails of pictures when I open up the camera folders, but will not open the pictures themselves.
<HedgeMage> southpaw: What format are the images in?
<southpaw> .jpg
<HedgeMage> That's odd.  What application are you trying to open them with?
<southpaw> F-spot and normal Image Viewer.
<southpaw> Also, Firefox won't open them either.
<southpaw> They won't save to the desktop... :/
<southpaw> I was thinking there might be some sort of driver that I was needing, though that didn't make much sense to me.
<HedgeMage> How are you getting the images, by plugging in the camera to a USB port, or by reading the card directly?
<southpaw> USB port.
<HedgeMage> Does the camera have a card in it that you have a reader for?  That would tell us whether the problem is with the files or the camera.
<southpaw> It has a 4GB SD card, which it's currently reading from.
<HedgeMage> southpaw: do you have an SD card reader?
<southpaw> well, this is odd. I was able to add a picture other than the one I wanted.
<southpaw> I'm not sure what you mean, HedgeMage. An SD card reader for Ubuntu?
<southpaw> Oddly enough, the pictures seem to be loading just fine now...
<HedgeMage> southpaw: No, a piece of hardware you stick the card into
<southpaw> Oh, no. But the pictures seem to be loading fine now.
<HedgeMage> Ahh, if it just takes a long time that usually means you have a ton of pics it has to generate thumbnails for.
<southpaw> ah, I see. Yeah, over 1300 pictures!
<southpaw> hahaha
<HedgeMage> that would do it
<southpaw> Thanks for taking the time to help me out though.
<southpaw> Much appreciated.
<HedgeMage> np
<Ahmuck_> SD card reader, a small device that plugs in usb to the computer and allows you to put your SD card into so that it can be read outside of your camera
<d_rwin> my edubuntu 7.10 upgrade isnt working, how do I upgrade my repository sources list
<sbalneav> Morning all
<humbolt> If I need network authentication, which is the most simple way to achieve that?
<sbalneav> humbolt: Probably LDAP
#edubuntu 2009-07-14
<sbalneav> Evening all
<ogra> GEEEZ ! an upload from highvoltage
<ogra> !!
<highvoltage> ogra: lol, miracles do happen!
<ogra> :)
<ogra> great to see that
<highvoltage> ogra: I've learned a lot recently, stgraber is great.
<ogra> yeah, definately
<highvoltage> hmm, I can't remember getting opped
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav
<stgraber> highvoltage: btw, did you change that small bit in lbagent's changelog + uploaded to REVU ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I ran into a problem, I think I can figure it out myself, I'll look again in about 30 minutes. will you be around/
<highvoltage> s#/#?#
<stgraber> highvoltage: sure
<stgraber> currently following a few conferences at the Linux Symposium 2009 so I can IRC without any problem this week ;) (lot easier than from the office)
<highvoltage> stgraber: heh
<juliux> 3/w 35
<highvoltage> stgraber: my internet has been dog slow this afternoon but I managed to get lbagent into revu
#edubuntu 2009-07-15
<Deadpan110> Hello all... I am looking for howtos on using LDM on a non net booting machine to connect users to the terminal server... any links pasted will be muchly appreciated... not played around all that much yet... but initially assumed it relied on lts.conf being available in the non net clients /etc directory
<Deadpan110> *poor google seems to send me around in circles and man ldm does not say too much
<alkisg> Deadpan110: it doesn't work this way, LTSP isn't just LDM
<alkisg> So you can't easily make LTSP clients out of non-net-booting machines
<Deadpan110> oh... ok and ty for your quick response... i was hoping that ldm would handle the niceness of connecting the session over X
<Deadpan110> *ssh
<alkisg> What's your purpose? Maybe there's something else you could use...
<Deadpan110> *buntu gdm has the connect over secure session n stuff... works nice till we log out... then it locks up :( ...kinda hoped that usin ldm rather than gdm would help...
<alkisg> (I mean, why avoid net booting?)
<Deadpan110> wireless media puter... the girlfriend loves the setup... but also wants to connect to our LTSP setup
<alkisg> You won't get audio through plain ssh
<Deadpan110> she could just sit in the other room... but she loves to chat etc while sat in front of the wide screen
<Deadpan110> yep... audio is no problem... if i need that, i would use pulse
<alkisg> Hmmm first, you could try asking in about 8-10 hours in #ltsp, where the devs usually hang out,
<Deadpan110> ...its justa curiosity on what i could prod about with... was liking the idea of *buntu booting on the wireless pute and a simple press of F9 to get to ldm
<Deadpan110> and... yups... i will hang out for a while... thankya :)
<alkisg> ...but I've also tried running a remote session in an Xnest succesfully....
<Deadpan110> yeah... i am very open to suggestions... i just got a lil miffed searchin about for stuffs... specially as i dunno if any of my ideas would work... and ima not shy of tweakin anythin
<Deadpan110> i have been usin ltsp at home now for a few years... saves a lot of time even tho there are only 2.5 users...
<Deadpan110> ...new house... our last place, i ran cat5e everywhere... heh... i dunt mind that... and if i had my way, i would channel out the walls... but 2 media PC's are now wireless... so the ltsp server also hosts our media
<Deadpan110> *blames the gf*
<sbalneav_> Morning all
<Ahmuck-Jr> morning sbalneav
<Lns> Hey guys, wanted to share a page promoting LTSP / Thin clients in education with you all - feel free to copy the info. I've been working on it the past 3-4 days and have come to the point to where I'm just adding links and touching things up here and there. Hopefully the info can be of use to others. http://logicalnetworking.net/services/ubuntu_ltsp.html
<Lns> (sorry for the xpost)
<highvoltage> cool, thanks for sharing!
<highvoltage> and know I finally know what Lns stands for :)
<Lns> highvoltage: ;)
#edubuntu 2009-07-16
<Plisk> Hi! :) I'd like to offer a sponsorship to the active developers of Edubunty. anyone from devs here now ?
<Plisk> s/i'd like/i want/
<sbalneav> Evening all
<sbalneav> Plisk: ?
<Plisk> sbalneav: Hi
<Plisk> sbalneav: what have you question about ?
<sbalneav> Define "sponsorship"
<Plisk> i want to see contributions so far for active developers and pay them for the work they done so far. also i want to pay them for any further active work on the Edubunty
<Plisk> other questions ?
<sbalneav> And you're doing this out of the goodness of your heart, or do you have an agenda you're looking for?
<sbalneav> Speaking only for myself, but as a developer, IMHO, what we need is more developers, not more money :)
<Plisk> Out of the goodness of your heart - you're right. You can read up more about my intensions here http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/90brb/creating_a_company_to_develop_maintain_and/c0b1ce2
<Plisk> Well, i can give what i can - energy(money).
<sbalneav> Well, speaking for myself, I'm happy to keep plugging along under my own steam.  However, you might get other responses by posting to the mailing list.
<sbalneav> You say you have a company set up for this.  URL?
<Plisk> Should i write to edubuntu-devel with this ?
<Plisk> About company - well, it is being created now. But after talking there on reddit with Svenstaro i don't know now whether i'll need any URL or company at all or i can just send money with paypal to devs and thats all.
<sbalneav> Plisk: Well, you'd probably get the most responses on the edubuntu-devel list.
<Plisk> okay, thank you. i'll post there
<Plisk> done :)
<acp_> hi, Im using Ubuntu 8.04.3 LTS
<acp_> can I download Ubuntu 9.04 Educational Addon ?
<sbalneav> acp_: You can, but you also have to upgrade to Ubuntu 9.04 as well.
<acp_> ok thanks
<phurl> hi all
<phurl> anyone want to come to our conference about edubuntu on august 29/30
<phurl> #flossk channel
<pygi> sbalneav, poke
<Svenstaro> Plisk, are you here?
<phurl> anyone want to come to our conference about edubuntu on august 29/30
<Svenstaro> Where's that?
<phurl> Prishtina, Kosovo #flossk
<phurl> i mean the conference is about floss in general
<phurl> and we would like people to talk abot edbuntu
<phurl> edubntu
<phurl> edubuntu
<Ahmuck-Jr> acp i wouldn't
<sbalneav> Good Morninging Edubuntu-land
<highvoltage> hey there sbalneav
<Svenstar0> sbalneav, are you there?
<Svenstar0> highvoltage, have you seen "Plisk" talk around here?
<highvoltage> Svenstar0: he last talked here at 2:45 UTC
<Svenstar0> Oh I see
<Svenstar0> Is his IRC user name "Plisk" as well?
<Ahmuck-Jr> when is the meeting?
<highvoltage> Svenstar0: 04:10 -!- Plisk [n=Plisk@80.249.92.15] has joined #edubuntu
<highvoltage> Ahmuck-Jr: 19:00 UTC
<Ahmuck-Jr> ?
<Ahmuck-Jr> yes?
<sbalneav> Svenstar0: yes
<sbalneav> Svenstar0: You rang?
<sbalneav> :)
<Svenstar0> Did you talk to "Plisk"?
<sbalneav> Last night I did, yes.
<Svenstar0> I urge you to be careful with that guy.
<sbalneav> heh
<_UsUrPeR_> hey all
<sbalneav> I wasn't biting.
<Svenstar0> He is in some kind of "do-good" cult aka Scientology.
<_UsUrPeR_> I need some italc help. Is this the right place?
<_UsUrPeR_> oh hi scott :)
<sbalneav> He seemed to want to give money away as part of some new "company" he's formed.  No idea what for, no registered company, etc.
<sbalneav> It didn't seem legit to me, so I told him I wasn't interested.  Told him if he wanted to make the offer, the mailing list was probably the best place for it.
<sbalneav> Me, I have no real desire to get paid for what I do with LTSP/Edubuntu.  I do it for a different set of reasons :)
<sbalneav> How do you know he's a Scieno?
<Svenstar0> Seems like the same kind of "crazy" to me.
<sbalneav> Well, I wouldn't accuse anyone of being anything unless you have proof :)  But I will say the offer didn't seem.... too serious.  I'll leave it at that :)
<sbalneav> http://picasaweb.google.com/rotmer/HUPecK#5357859767808812450
<sbalneav> That's his picasa gallery
<Svenstar0> Have a look at his reddit comments, I think that says it all: http://www.reddit.com/user/plisk
<Svenstar0> sbalneav, You are a Sabayon developer, aren't you?
<Svenstar0> It's been stalled for some time and hasn't ever worked for me. Is that improving? (no offense, really)
<_UsUrPeR_> Am I in the right place for some iTalc support questions?
<Lns> _UsUrPeR_, stgraber would be the one to ask for that...might wanna try #ltsp too though he's here
<Lns> (or at least in the chan)
<_UsUrPeR_> yeah, I have been. He's pretty busy at a conference at the moment
<Lns> ah
<Lns> _UsUrPeR_, so you were talking about possibly contributing to tcm the other day, then disappeared... :)
<_UsUrPeR_> lns: I am still interested.
<Lns> _UsUrPeR_, cool! do you have an idea of what you'd like to do to help out?
<_UsUrPeR_> unfortunately, my present employers were not interested :(
<_UsUrPeR_> I can gurantee you that I will be able to help out
<_UsUrPeR_> just not at this precise moment
<_UsUrPeR_> I am still interested in helping out though
<Lns> no worries, i appreciate it!
<Lns> Just lemme know if there's anything I can do
<_UsUrPeR_> will do
<Lns> meeting here in ~1hr right?
 * _UsUrPeR_ points to himself
<_UsUrPeR_> ?
<Lns> oh..no i was asking anyone..i think there is...i think..
<Lns> Anyone know the state of GCompris suite for LTSP networks? Does it work very well? I know a couple of years ago it was fairly flaky (crashes often)
<|TrustyLiebowitz> what IRC programs do you guys like for ubuntu?
<Lns> |TrustyLiebowitz, xchat works well
<Lns> if you want a more command-line driven approach to irc, there's always bitchx
<|TrustyLiebowitz> I am using kvirc at the moment. Was the first thing I saw
<|TrustyLiebowitz> Not so much into command line stuff
<|TrustyLiebowitz> yet
<|TrustyLiebowitz> just comming over from windows where I used to use Mirc
<|TrustyLiebowitz> but pretty much doen with windows
<Lns> |TrustyLiebowitz, try XChat out. It's a lot like mirc
<sbalneav> Svenstar0: I'm not a developer, but I'm trying to fix it so that it works for us :)
 * Lns looks around....meeting?
<sbalneav> That on now?
<sbalneav> Looks like there's some global jam thing going on in #ubuntu-meeting
<alkisg> Isn't the meeting at 19:00 UTC?
 * Lns tries to figure out if it's 19:00 utc..heh
<alkisg> Lns, date -u
<alkisg> sbalneav: I, too, am unable to start sabayon - with your ppa in my sources. Does it start for you?
<dgroos> Hi All
<dgroos> Meeting today?
<dgroos> Not on the fridge?
<Lns> aaaaaaaaah, 1hr
<Lns> stupid daylight savings =
<Lns> =
<Lns> blargh
<sbalneav> alkisg: It does for me, but if it doesn't start for you, that's a problem.
<sbalneav> ok
<dgroos> Right!  Thanks
<alkisg> sbalneav: whenever you have the time / mood for it, I'm up for debugging...
<sbalneav> I've got one other person who it doesn't start for, but I've got a couple of people who it DOES start for, so still more work to be done.
<dgroos> Lns: thanks for the page you created on your site explaining about the benefits of thin clients--I'm just linking someone to it on an e-mail I'm sending :)
<Lns> dgroos, Glad to hear others are seeing it :)
<Lns> Right now I'm adding a "Featured Educational Applications" section
 * alkisg is debianizing about 10 Gb of windows-based educational apps this summer.. wine and flash, mostly. If anyone's in a similar position, I'd be glad to change notes :)
<Lns> alkisg, debianizing? you mean just getting them to work under wine?
<alkisg> Yes, but also installing for all users and creating menus etc
<alkisg> So e.g. if I was to debianize office, I would also associate the .doc extension to open in word etc
<alkisg> (all that inside the .deb file, nothing done manually)
<Lns> gross
<Lns> =p
<alkisg> Yeah I hope these wine devs make it easier some day :)
<Lns> no i meant about debianizing ms office ;)
<alkisg> Ah, I think that's done already with wine-doors?
<highvoltage> I don't think you can debianize windows software really
<highvoltage> or at least wine programs, I don't think you can do system-wide installations yet
<alkisg> highvoltage: I've already done it for some of them
<highvoltage> alkisg: how does that work?
<alkisg> I use a common read-only system.reg file, and I put the package files in /usr/share/package
<alkisg> Per-user registry is still kept in ~/.wine
<alkisg> I'll write a how-to when I'm done with it; I just wanted to exchange notes with anyone that tried something similar...
<alkisg> For extension association I use a wrapper script in /usr/bin/package
<Lns> well, this really would be a big step forward with windows only edu apps...
<highvoltage> indeed
<LaserJock> hello Edubuntu land!
<sbalneav> Greetings, Denizen of LaserLand.
 * Lns greets LaserJock 
<LaserJock> is the meeting going to be in here or #ubuntu-meeting?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting about to start in #ubuntu-meeting
<svenstaro> Oh hi, meeting already started?
<alkisg> svenstaro: it's in #ubuntu-meeting
<ball> Is there an Edubuntu mailing list?
<ball> (if so, where do I sign up?)
<sbalneav> edubuntu-users
<sbalneav> or
<sbalneav> edubuntu-devel
<Lns> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
<Lns> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
<Lns> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-education
<|TrustyLiebowitz> what are meetings about?
<|TrustyLiebowitz> ubuntu annonymous? :D
<sbalneav> |TrustyLiebowitz: working on edubuntu
<Ahmuck-Jr> edubuntu anonymous :D
<|TrustyLiebowitz> "Hi my name is Trusty and I have been off winblows for 48 hours now. I just wanna say thanks for all the support and you guys are really great! (Cries)"
<|TrustyLiebowitz> Since I basicly know nothing, I'll jus tsit over her ein the corner an crack jokes every so often
<Ahmuck-Jr> |TrustyLiebowitz: really?
<|TrustyLiebowitz> really which? That I don't know anything or been off windcrows for 48 hours? Or that I am the problem child in the corner? Answer to all is yes though :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> :) ... good to see you in the linux community.  i hope you find us well, and not to cranky each morning :)
<|TrustyLiebowitz> if Lns is a good gauge, I like you guys jsut fine
<|TrustyLiebowitz> so if ya get sick of me it's his fault that I stayed :D
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: I'm curious, did you look at Edubuntu before starting Qimo and if so what reasons did  you have for not using it?
<mhall119|work> I did
<mhall119|work> My concerns were that there wasn't a LiveCD, and the interface didn't seem like it would work for my 3 year old
<mhall119|work> before I made Qimo, I made my son a regular Ubuntu install with customized panels very similar to how they are in Qimo
<mhall119|work> and it worked very well for him (still does, really)
<LaserJock> well, those are the sorts of things we're aiming to fix
<LaserJock> the LiveCD thing is a real problem
<LaserJock> we just can't fit *everything* on a single CD
<Ahmuck-Jr> well, that i agree
<mhall119|work> yeah, I know, I had to strip stuff out of Xubuntu to make Qimo fit
<mhall119|work> I think I have 1MB of room left on the ISO
<Ahmuck-Jr> would edubuntu be able to list a set of programs that can be used in ubuntu that may not be gpl?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck-Jr: how do you mean?
<svenstaro> I still can't believe that a decision to go from CD to DVD can be so hard.
<Ahmuck-Jr> there are programs outside of gpl that work for kids.  our kids self sleect
<svenstaro> All Edubuntu stuff would fit comfortably onto a DVD
<LaserJock> svenstaro: it's not
<LaserJock> svenstaro: the actual decision took about 10 min. :-)
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'm not talking about setting programs on a cd, but a recommended list.
<svenstaro> Well, LaserJock, HAS it actually been decided then?
<LaserJock> yes
<svenstaro> So that I might at last start work after 3 months of waiting
<LaserJock> I emailed that 2-3 times over the last month
<svenstaro> So we're going DVD?
<highvoltage> Ahmuck-Jr: a list shouldn't be a problem at all
<LaserJock> svenstaro: if people will work to make it happen, yes. We got the go-ahead from the Technical Board
<highvoltage> Ahmuck-Jr: and even non-free things can go into the repositories, there's multiverse for that
<sbalneav> The problem
<sbalneav> as always
<sbalneav> is
<sbalneav> WHO
<sbalneav> IS
<mhall119|work> a list wouldn't be a problem, but distribution of certain closed-source programs is
<sbalneav> GOING
<sbalneav> TO
<svenstaro> LaserJock: It doesn't take a genius nor a large amount of work to combine the ubuntu and edubuntu preseeds :/
<sbalneav> PRODCE THE DVD :)
<LaserJock> Ahmuck-Jr: I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for
<LaserJock> svenstaro: no, it just takes coordination with the Ubuntu Release and CDImage Teams
<highvoltage> LaserJock: so, let's get this started
<mhall119|work> LaserJock: there isn't a way to automate the merging?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I sense you popping in
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: it's not really the merging
<svenstaro> How are we on the documentation? Is anybody actually going to clean it up?
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: we need to coordinate with the Release/CDImage team to get the build running and cdimage.ubuntu.com updated
<mhall119|work> svenstaro: is there a roadmap for what needs to be cleaned up and how?
<mhall119|work> LaserJock: oh right, you've for official images
<svenstaro> Just make it consistent with upstream and see if stuff tested for old ubuntu releases still works.
<highvoltage> svenstaro: we hope so
<svenstaro> LaserJock: So I'll just send you the preseeds and we're done?
<svenstaro> It's really just a list with package names in it.
<mhall119|work> svenstaro: I ask because if there's something to point people in the right direction, it could be done as part of the Ubuntu Global Jam
<LaserJock> svenstaro: no, not exactly
<highvoltage> svenstaro: I can assure you LaserJock understands what preseeds look like
<LaserJock> svenstaro: once the DVD builds are up and running it's just a matter of tweaking the DVD seed
<LaserJock> but we need to get the initial boot-strapping going
<highvoltage> LaserJock: cant we just start off with having a DVD with ubuntu-desktop and the edubuntu metapackages, at least to begin with, and then take it from there?
<LaserJock> so emailing colin watson to get him (or send him a patch) to make Edubuntu build off of a new "dvd" seed
<mhall119|work> do any of you guys know what changes are going to happen in the liveCD images?  I heard at SELF that aufs is being dropped
<svenstaro> I still don't get the problem, then. It seems like the problem is purely bureaucratic.
<LaserJock> svenstaro: well, it does take some work, and work from very busy people
<LaserJock> but yeah, it shouldn't be a huge deal
<LaserJock> *but* somebody needs to do it and I'm not that somebody
<LaserJock> I have ~ 2 days to finish my PhD and I'm defending in ~ 1 week
<highvoltage> LaserJock: would I be able to do it? I mean, as a non-motu/non-core-dev, would I be able to e-mail Colin and just ask him?
<LaserJock> sure
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok I'll do it tomorrow morning then
<LaserJock> just say per the TB discussion Edubuntu is going to move to a DVD
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> and ask if he can make the changes or if he's to busy would he take a patch
<LaserJock> if he needs a patch I *might* have a little time to help
<highvoltage> will do
<Ahmuck-Jr> LaserJock: from a classroom instructor's point of view, i'm looking to go to a website, see what programs are available, some simple setup instructions for putting either a ubuntu server or ltsp server in the classroom, take all my 2003 or 2000 computers and connect them and have working pc's that my kids can use
<LaserJock> but it would be waaaay faster to have him do it as he wrote the thing
<LaserJock> Ahmuck-Jr: right, but what does the GPL have to do with it?
<Ahmuck-Jr> LaserJock: if your phd is coming up, i'd concentrate on that
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, I'll try to use that factor to convince him to do it
<LaserJock> I am, believe me
<LaserJock> ok, so for the very first thing I'd just copy the Ubuntu DVD seed and make sure we get an Ubuntu DVD out
<LaserJock> then we can start modifying things
<LaserJock> the modifying might be fun for people actually
<LaserJock> but we need to get the daily builds going in the first place
<LaserJock> and then the release team needs to know that we're ditching the Addon Cd and doing the DVD
<Michelle_Qimo> Hi everyone, just got the notice that mhall119|work asked me to join
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I have an employee that I could make test edubuntu images at least once a week as part of his job
<highvoltage> Michelle_Qimo: and thank you for joining!
<mhall119|work> hey, everyone, Michelle_Qimo is my wife, we're the dynamic duo of Qimo
<LaserJock> and we need an Edubuntu Release Coordinator, I would perhaps suggest having stgraber or the EC for that
<highvoltage> Michelle_Qimo: nice to meet you
<LaserJock> Michelle_Qimo: hi
<Michelle_Qimo> hi highvoltage and LaserJock.  Thanks for having me!
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm very much in favour of stgraber, and I'd take some mentoring from him as well if he's willing, so that I know how to do it as well
<LaserJock> sure
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I noticed a question mark next to your name on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/ReleaseManifest
<LaserJock> it just takes somebody to give the go-ahead that things are tested and OK and most importantly somebody who can get ahold of people if something goes wrong
<highvoltage> LaserJock: if stgraber agrees, can we put his name up for there to mdz?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: exactly
<LaserJock> yep, that's what I'm hoping for
<LaserJock> but I don't want to overload him
<sbalneav> brb, workping
<highvoltage> Michelle_Qimo: we've been thinking of getting in touch with the two of you to get some (or even all) of your work into the Ubuntu archives
<LaserJock> but he's got lots of testing experience (having largely written the testing website) so I think it should be fairly easy for him
<highvoltage> Michelle_Qimo: we happened to run into mhall119|work while having our meeting just a few minutes ago, so we're happy that there was some chance in our favour there
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that's encouraging
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: if you can help me with the XFCE/XDG stuff, I think I can make .Deb packages of everything custom in Qimo
<Michelle_Qimo> he was saying that youguys can help him out a bit.
<Michelle_Qimo> that's awesome, and I'm so thankful
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I was thinking throughout this week that we might have to drop the dvd install disc for thise release, I wasn't very comfortable with the idea for karmic since the beginning, but I think I have more confidence in it now
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I don't think we would've stood a chance this release without having stgraber around
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: great, are you usually on-line this time of the day?
<mhall119|work> usually
<LaserJock> I *think* it should be pretty straightfoward to do Ubuntu DVD+Edu apps for Karmic
<mhall119|work> sometimes I have to look like I'm working though
<LaserJock> I'm concerned with our ability to sync with the Ubuntu DVD though
<mhall119|work> I leave this nick running 24/7 though, so it'll probably stay in here
<LaserJock> in terms of installer bugs, etc. we have to stick *real* close
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: ok, ping me tomorrow (or any other time you're on again and have some time), we'll go through it
<Michelle_Qimo> I'm usually around, though, I'll stay in as well.
<mhall119|work> thanks highvoltage
<highvoltage> LaserJock: can you help me clear up some ignorance here...
<LaserJock> unless I'm similarly ignorant ;-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: will we need to specify the meta-packages that we also want on the dvd, or will he just include the current seeds for the packages on the current edubuntu disc?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> what we'll have is a specific DVD seed
<LaserJock> that pulls in from the various other seeds
<LaserJock> so the disc is built from 1 seed, but that seed can inherit from other seeds
<svenstaro> Will a new package be required for the live LTSP?
<svenstaro> Or will it just be put in place on there?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure about live LTSP
<LaserJock> we might have to skip that for Karmic
<svenstaro> Well it's not exactly magic.
<LaserJock> no, but seeing as we're not far from Feature Freeze and we don't even have a DVD yet ...
<svenstaro> Has anything been decided that concerns actual user experience?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I thought I told you about live LTSP before, we decided we'll just make a how-to for that, so it will simply be a piece of documentation
<LaserJock> svenstaro: I haven't seen much of *anything* really decided
<LaserJock> lots of ideas
<LaserJock> but a bit light on implementation
<LaserJock> *other than* highvoltage here has been doing a bit of packaging!
<svenstaro> Okay, well. My sommer break is starting tomorrow. Apart from my other projects I'll have lots of time.
<svenstaro> Is there anything that I should be working on?
<LaserJock> svenstaro: well, you had interest in docs, right?
<highvoltage> svenstaro: and do you have any web/wiki skills as well?
<svenstaro> Actually, no. I'm mainly interested in user experience but I think I'd be able to do pretty much everything that needs work.
<svenstaro> If I can recall correctly, I have already given you guys my skills once or twice. Anyhow, my skills are: medium C++, medium-high Python, all kinds of CMS and wiki, pretty much anything required.
<svenstaro> I'd actually be highly interested in doing training videos for the live DVD and for the website that address actual use cases but I don't know your stance on that.
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'm intersted in your "user" ideas
<LaserJock> I think our stance has been that we'd be excited to have training videos
<svenstaro> I can also work on Sabayon or Pessulus if needed. My main goal is making Edubuntu LTSP available to a *real* school environment, maintained by a teacher.
<LaserJock> svenstaro: well, then I think we all have a shared goal then :-)
<svenstaro> LaserJock: I'm not so sure. From my earlier discussions I somehow still have a "ring" that LTSP lost some value.
<mhall119|work> is anyone here (besides me) from Florida?
<svenstaro> Or at least interest among the Edubuntu project.
<highvoltage> svenstaro: sbalneav could use a hand on sabayon, and pessulus work would also be good
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I assume Michelle_Qimo is as well :)
<mhall119|work> well yes
<Ahmuck-Jr> i don't think it's lost it's value or it's interest, but perhaps it's focus
<Ahmuck-Jr> qimo in florida ?!
<Ahmuck-Jr> intersting
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck-Jr: yup
<mhall119|work> well, Qimo is global now, be he started in Florida
<LaserJock> svenstaro: what does LTSP have to do with it?
<mhall119|work> We're planning on doing an LTSP lab in August down here, for a children's home
<svenstaro> highvoltage: LaserJock: How would I best make a decision for Edubuntu and be sure that my work is actually included? The interest on the mailing list was low for the things I wanted to talk about.
<Ahmuck-Jr> mhall119|work: i'm interested in your work, very interested
<LaserJock> svenstaro: it may not be that it's a lack of interest
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck-Jr: thanks
<LaserJock> for me the problem is that we have some real pressing issues
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck-Jr: do you have any questions about it?
<highvoltage> svenstaro: there's also some scepticism sometimes when people make lots of big promises
<svenstaro> LaserJock: I think that LTSP is of major importance because of its centralism and maintainability.
<LaserJock> and as much as I have a lot of grand ideas, I have to look at what we can do for Karmic to keep things alive
<LaserJock> svenstaro: sure, but LTSP != Education either
<Ahmuck-Jr> when you do the lab, i'm interested in following your progress, and would be willing to work with you.  work problems out, etc.
<svenstaro> I'm not making big promises at all, I'm trying to make big goals but I can't get people to agree.
<LaserJock> svenstaro: LTSP is a tool and a major piece of the Edubuntu puzzle
<mhall119|work> svenstaro: I can tell you that LTSP's bigged point for me is using old, discarded computers as thin clients
<Ahmuck-Jr> i agree with Laserjock, he's trying ot hit distro release schedules
<highvoltage> svenstaro: if you have an idea, come talk about it in an edubuntu meeting with myself, LaserJock and stgraber. We should be able to tell you if it's suitable for inclusion in the archives
<LaserJock> but we shifted from developing LTSP as upstreams to now being a consumer of LTSP
<LaserJock> that doesn't mean we care about LTSP less
<Ahmuck-Jr> has edubuntu and ltsp sepereated?
<alkisg> Education = Ubuntu in education. Among other software, LTSP is also used in Education. So if svenstaro can integrate LTSP in the Ubuntu DVD in time for Karmic, where's the problem? It'll help a lot of teachers...
<svenstaro> LaserJock: That's fine but I still think that Edubuntu should try to integrate with LTSP as best as it can if the user decides to use that.
<LaserJock> but our focus went from "how do we be the best LTSP distro?" to "how do we be the best education distro?"
<highvoltage> Ahmuck-Jr: well, they're still connected
<highvoltage> Ahmuck-Jr: but it was never a single project
<Ahmuck-Jr> were not working togather?
<LaserJock> well, LTSP is software, just like any other
<highvoltage> Ahmuck-Jr: both sbalneav and stgraber are LTSP upstream people
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'll put forth a question proposed by others in the past.  schoolbuntu?
<mhall119|work> isn't LTSP part of the standard Ubuntu alt-cd image?
<highvoltage> Ahmuck-Jr: so LTSP and Edubuntu *definitely* has strong links
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: yep
<Ahmuck-Jr> highvoltage: yep, i'm familiar with sbalneav and stgraber
<mhall119|work> LaserJock: so is there much more work to have it working in Edubuntu's image?
<svenstaro> Ahmuck-Jr: Actually, I wanted to start my own Ubuntu fork as Schoolbuntu but people in this channel told me to hold it.
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: having what working? LTSP?
<mhall119|work> yeah
<Ahmuck-Jr> it's my observation that edubuntu see's itself as ubuntu with edu apps, rather than ubuntu in the classroom
<svenstaro> So what contexts is Edubuntu now meant to be used in if not classrooms?
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: no, we shouldn't really have to do much of anything
<mhall119|work> if it's already working in Ubuntu 9.10, what needs to be done for it to work in Edubuntu?
<mhall119|work> okay, it sounded like it was going to be an issue
<LaserJock> svenstaro: home computers for pre-school kids, Universities
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: it's incredibly easy to include on alternate CD builds
<Ahmuck-Jr> from what i can tell, edubuntu is home based rather than school based
<Ahmuck-Jr> LaserJock: i don't see it bieng used in universites
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is *education* based
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: but afaik not yet on casper/ubiquity discs
<mhall119|work> oh, I see
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: and the majority of the edubuntu users have stressed the importance of a GUI installer
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck-Jr: Qimo is very home-based, edubuntu has much more school-based stuff than we do
<svenstaro> I would argue that there's more education going on in a school environment than in pre-school kindergardens or at home.
<LaserJock> sure
<svenstaro> Universities surely wouldn't use a desktop based solution.
<LaserJock> why not?
<Ahmuck-Jr> mhall119|work: i'll take a look at Qimo ... i'm interested in seeing what apps you've found to work
<svenstaro> Because it'd be a huge pain to manage.
<LaserJock> what I'm trying to get at is I don't know why we're limiting ourselves
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: I think for LTSP it would be less of an issue, people who can't make it through an ncurses installer won't likely be wiring up computer labs with thin clients either
<LaserJock> svenstaro: they do it already
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck-Jr: mostly the same as Edubuntu has
<alkisg> mhall119|work: no special wiring is needed for live LTSP
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: heh, you'd be surprised :)
<svenstaro> LaserJock: I'm not saying to limit ourselves at all! I'm only saying that we should work out exact use cases and address them technically, for example in the installer "What do you want to use Edubuntu for?"
<mhall119|work> alkisg: you need clients, right?
<Ahmuck-Jr> svenstaro: sorta, there are pre-schools that would love the software and measuring sucess in pre-school is just as important if not more so
<sbalneav> back
<alkisg> mhall119|work: yeah, but labs tend to have PCs in them (=clients :))
<LaserJock> svenstaro: right, well, that's certainly something we can look into
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck-Jr: agreed, we put out first Qimo computers into a preschool
<mhall119|work> preschool is a very good place to start with educational software
<svenstaro> I think that if Edubuntu wants to be nothing specific again but "just a bunch of apps and maybe some inconsistent docs" then it hasn't moved one bit into the right direction, at least from my perspective.
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I think it's worth mentioning that we don't specifically want to bring qimo into edubuntu as such, what we would like to do more specifically is make the qimo desktop easily available for ubuntu users
<mhall119|work> alkisg: do you need to configure the clients to network boot?
<Michelle_Qimo> highvoltage: that sounds like a good plan
<mhall119|work> last time I did network booting, there was a lot of configuration on the clients
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: it would also make sense to distribute the qimo packages on the edubuntu discs since we share so much packages in common, it would allow anyone with an edubuntu disc at hand to install qimo from it as well
<alkisg> mhall119|work: that's not wiring. Anyone can insert a floppy or cd. No settings are required.
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: I like that idea, we've had multiple ubuntu users wanting to install just the Qimo interface
<highvoltage> Michelle_Qimo: sorry I should probably highlight you as well!
<LaserJock> svenstaro: the problem is it takes time
<LaserJock> svenstaro: nobody want it to just be Ubuntu+a few edu apps
<Michelle_Qimo> highvoltage: oh, no, I'm reading along, trying to keep up.
<mhall119|work> alkisg: it must have gotten easier since I did it then
<alkisg> Probably :)
<highvoltage> Michelle_Qimo: heh, yes the channel is quite a bit more noisier than it usually is tonight :)
<mhall119|work> alkisg: PXE boot just about drove me mad at one point
<LaserJock> svenstaro: but we've been close to the edge of death here as a project and so the primary focus needs to be on doing some CPR :-)
<alkisg> mhall119|work: nah, it's a piece of cake now, it can even work with existing dhcp servers already present on the lab.
<mhall119|work> cool
<mhall119|work> alkisg: I may come ask you questions too, when I'm setting up my lap
<alkisg> np
<svenstaro> Considering all that has been said, then, would it still be a stupid idea to have "Schoolbuntu", Linux distribution specialized for efficient usage in educational institutions?
<mhall119|work> I have a bunch of old dells without hard drives
<mhall119|work> that I want to use as clients
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: we understand that an automated LTSP environment is a high priority, it's certainly not something we're going to ignore, I can at least assure you of that
<LaserJock> svenstaro: why, Edubuntu would just be Schoolbuntu+
<LaserJock> we just need to get things going here and have people pitching to help
<sbalneav> LaserJock++
<LaserJock> Edubuntu wants to be focused on schools
<mhall119|work> svenstaro: what would you need in schoolbuntu that isn't in edubuntu?
<svenstaro> LaserJock: Okay, then. It may sound tedious but I'll repeat: How can I be sure that my contributions will be included? Whom do I talk to then, anyhow?
<LaserJock> svenstaro: just start making contributions
<mhall119|work> can you do what we're talking about doing with Qimo, and just having it available as an extra installable option?
<LaserJock> there's really not a gatekeeper here
<LaserJock> we can advice, discuss, etc.
<LaserJock> but if you want to clean up the wiki, go for it!
<highvoltage> svenstaro: I told you before, if you want to be as sure as you can be *before* you actually contribute, bring it up at one of our weekly meetings and we'd be able to give you a good idea
<LaserJock> if you want to fix bugs, go for it!
<LaserJock> highvoltage: +1
<LaserJock> if unsure, just ask
<mhall119|work> is edubuntu in launchpad?
<svenstaro> Good, I want to fork the installer and address specific use case using the then new Edubuntu installer.
<mhall119|work> which installer?
<LaserJock> svenstaro: I would talk to Colin Watson or one of the other installer maintainers about the things you want to do
<LaserJock> svenstaro: I think there's even an #ubuntu-installer
<highvoltage> svenstaro: ok, you probably realise that that's quite risky and that you'll have to address quite a few issues if you definitely want it included
<svenstaro> I don't think the bureaucracy is encouraging.
<LaserJock> what bureaucracy?
<LaserJock> we're essentially a meritocracy here, if the work has technical merit it will be looked at
<svenstaro> Well, normally I'd create my own big project, a whole fork, realise Edubuntu the way I think it should be done and have everybody pull back to trunk what they think is good idea.
<LaserJock> but you have to recognize that a forked installer is very difficult to maintain at the standards we need
<Ahmuck-Jr> actually, it doesn't have to be ltsp even.  it could be stand alone, drives cloned at night, with centralized login and centralized storage, windows apps usable, etc.
<svenstaro> But realistically, I can't do it because I can't even roll my own images to start with.
<highvoltage> svenstaro: I think you'll need to look into that
<LaserJock> svenstaro: are you talking about  ubiquity or the debian installer?
<highvoltage> svenstaro: because understanding how an image is put together is absolutely critical if you even want to touch installer work
<svenstaro> LaserJock: I think Ubiquity would be more appropiate to modify since we're targeting teachers who could watch videos while installing if that is feasible from a DVD.
<mhall119|work> svenstaro: why can't you roll your own images?
<highvoltage> svenstaro: the ubiquity team is already working on that
<mhall119|work> I know they're putting some kind of a "tour" function into Ubuquity
<LaserJock> svenstaro: I think ubiquity is supposed to have some level of "plugability"
<mhall119|work> I've made changes to Ubiquity before, it's not real complex
<highvoltage> svenstaro: they're going to include webkit-gtk support which will theoretically allow you to include flash videos in the installer
<LaserJock> ideally what I'd like to be able to do is just insert the "Edubuntu" stuff as "plugins" to ubiquity and not fork at all
<svenstaro> Ugh, flash videos. C'mon, we're trying to liberate schools.
<highvoltage> svenstaro: it would be quite a waste if you spend time implementing something that is already being implemented by the installer team, don't you think?
<svenstaro> LaserJock: IS it pluggable in trunk right now?
<LaserJock> svenstaro: I *think* so but I don't know 100%
<highvoltage> svenstaro: fine, html <video> tags then
<LaserJock> that's why i'd suggest talking to cjwatson or #ubuntu-installer
<mhall119|work> it's python and GTK, you could always include a gstreamer based player
<LaserJock> I just don't know off hand what the "state of the art" in Ubiquity is
<highvoltage> ubiquity has plenty of support for hooks and inserting custom scripts and stuff
<svenstaro> If I am to write that hypotethical plugin, let's decide on the use cases: Workstation, LTSP Server, LTSP Cluster Support Server, Home computer, ...?
<highvoltage> I honestly can't see any need for edubuntu at present to make even the slightest change to ubiquity
<svenstaro> highvoltage: Good then, I wasn't eager to fork it but I didn't know it was made so comfortable for plugins.
<highvoltage> svenstaro: do you know how ubiquity currently installs a casper image?
<Ahmuck-Jr> mhall119|work: keep me posted.  i'm working with 9.04 currently and would hope i had some hard knocks in the process i could spare you from.  need an e-mail?
<svenstaro> No, but I rolled a few custom Ubuntu's once by manually doing the casper process.
<alkisg> That plugin-based "select role to setup" that svenstaro proposed is a great idea, I think...
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck-Jr: are you usually in here?
<Ahmuck-Jr> yep, usually
<mhall119|work> ok, I'll come find you then
<Ahmuck-Jr> been participating more in channel #ltsp
<mhall119|work> QImo 1 is based on Xubuntu 8.10, 2 is gonig to be based on 9.10
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I see a need for some Edubuntu-specific questions in Ubiquity
<highvoltage> svenstaro: ok, so you know that ubiquity pretty much copies everything in there over to the target system, and then afterwards it removes the packages that shouldn't be there based on the manifest
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I don't know yet how we're going to manage edu app installation
 * mhall119|work has too many IRC windows
<Ahmuck-Jr> ttfn
<highvoltage> svenstaro: I think you should try to at least work with the ubuntu-installer team somewhat to find the best ways to implement your ideas
<LaserJock> highvoltage: so we're going to have to decide, I think, between installing no edu apps or installing all edu apps
<highvoltage> svenstaro: more to protect you from doing things that may be easily done with existing things in the installer tools
<mhall119|work> LaserJock: you could add a screen to Ubiquity, kind of tasksel like, to pick them
<alkisg> It could be possible that the same dvd contained /dist/ and /pool/ and was able to install roles *after* the initial installation...
<LaserJock> alkisg: that's what I'm thinking
<alkisg> (the non-live ones, at least...)
<LaserJock> I was thinking of installing an "Education Software Installer" in the Administration menu
<svenstaro> Do we in principle agree then that there should be different profiles for installation?
<mhall119|work> alkisg: is that how Ubuntu Server does it?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: well, the build systems do support having a casper image and seperate .deb files, so we could have the dvd not install all of the edu stuff, and then have gnome-app-install run from the /target chroot as a post-inst hook in ubiquity
<alkisg> mhall119|work: I don't know, I've never used Ubuntu server
<mhall119|work> alkisg: I seem to remember it installs first, then asks if you want LAMP, OpenSSH, etc
<highvoltage> LaserJock: not that I'm saying it should work exactly like that, but I think there are ways of doing it but we should get to the nitty gritty of that later
<alkisg> I've no idea :
<LaserJock> svenstaro: of course, I'm not sure what exactly they should be  or when exactly they should be presented, but having installation profiles is a long-time Edubuntu thing
<highvoltage> svenstaro: yep, I think we do
<LaserJock> we used to have Classroom Server and Workstation
<svenstaro> LaserJock: Why have they never een implemented?
<svenstaro> Oh
<svenstaro> Have they not been maintained?
<LaserJock> svenstaro: because we went to the Addon CD thing and LTSP moved to the Ubuntu Alternate CD
<LaserJock> it just messed everything up
<svenstaro> Ah. That honestly was the worst decision and almost the last nail in Edubuntu's preliminary coffin so far, in my opinion.
<LaserJock> well, we really didn't have much of a choice at the time
<alkisg> If someone makes e.g. a package that installs a role, how can he include it to edubuntu - I mean it won't even be in universe...
<mhall119|work> LTSP needed to be in the Ubuntu images
<LaserJock> but yeah, it didn't work out as well as we'd have liked
<Ahmuck-Jr> mhall119|work: i just noticed a vdi
<sbalneav> Nice to say, but with only one person actually working on the distro images, a bootable disk was unmaintanable.
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck-Jr: of Qimo?
<sbalneav> So it was a decistion that had to be made.
<LaserJock> alkisg: how do you mean?
<mhall119|work> okay, I'm heading home
<mhall119|work> talk to you guys later
<mhall119|work> and thanks for bringing me in
<highvoltage> bye mhall119|work! thanks for dropping in
<highvoltage> LaserJock: not sure how long I'll be able to stay awake either
<svenstaro> Can anybody get me up to speed about the Ubuntu live cd technical background? Is it using Aufs2 and Squashfs?
<LaserJock> squashfs I know it has used
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'll ping colin tomorrow morning on IRC and have a quick chat, then I'll send him an e-mail as a formality
<LaserJock> I'm not sure on the technical stuff
<LaserJock> highvoltage: good, thanks
<highvoltage> LaserJock: we're still in a very tight spot, of course, but I think we're more or less steering into course at least
<highvoltage> LaserJock: with some clever manuevering we might just have a nice 9.10 release yet
<svenstaro> Whom do I bug to pull my repo on launchpad when I'm done?
<alkisg> LaserJock: suppose that I create a package that when it's installed it setups an LTSP server specialized for schools with mixed windows/ltsp environments. Or LDAP. Or whatever. How would this package fit to edubuntu, since it won't even be in universe?
<LaserJock> svenstaro: pull what repo?
<LaserJock> alkisg: why wouldn't it be in Universe?
<svenstaro> alkisg: Why couldn't you just put that package into the repo? It would be a critical Edubuntu package, after all.
<alkisg> LaserJock: so the formal way would be for me to become a motu and try to get it into Universe, before it goes into Edubuntu?
<highvoltage> svenstaro: start by putting it into a PPA, then it can at least be tested and reviewed.
<LaserJock> right now we have the following installable tasks "Edubuntu Desktop", "Edubuntu KDE Desktop", "Edubuntu Server"
<svenstaro> LaserJock: I have my launchpad account and I can create multiple projects on that one as you know. When I want something to included in Edubuntu officially, I need to bug someone with the powa to pull it in.
<LaserJock> alkisg: you don't have to be a MOTU no, you just need to get 2 MOTUs to sign off on it
<LaserJock> svenstaro: right now myself and stgraber have access rights
<Ahmuck-Jr> something i'd like to add, for junior high, high school, i noticed software the other day for "ear training" and "note reading" for music.  i haven't had time to look at these, but did not notice them in edubuntu. i may have missed them however
<svenstaro> Uh, that's quite a high bus factor. Anyhow, will it be enough if I bug the mailing list, you guys test my PPA, sign it off and pull it in?
<highvoltage> alkisg: I've had my first package approved last week, my second one just yesterday, the reviewers are quite efficient, both my packages got approved the same day I uploaded them to revu
<highvoltage> alkisg: so you can actually get quite far without being a motu
<Michelle_Qimo> Ahmuck-Jr: we've actually looked at those apps, they're quite good
<alkisg> LaserJock, highvoltage: Right. So every role would need to go to universe with the usual ways before it's considered for inclusion for edubuntu, did I understand it correctly?
<alkisg> (role = edubuntu installation role, task, package ...)
<highvoltage> alkisg: yes, as with any official ubuntu-based system
<LaserJock> alkisg: not necessarily
<LaserJock> I mean, the way we define those roles is by seeds
<LaserJock> they *do* end up as .debs but they'd likely be from an existing source package
<LaserJock> so no need to get them "approved" really
<highvoltage> which would still need to be in the archives
<Ahmuck-Jr> Michelle_Qimo: another app you might be intersted in is anki
<alkisg> OK, got it, thanks
<LaserJock> it would just go through binary NEW, which is pretty trivial
<svenstaro> How can I run a trivial script on the live DVD to events like start up and shut down? Do I actually need to create a package just to get the data in?
<Michelle_Qimo> Ahmuck-Jr: I will certainly look into it!
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://ichi2.net/anki/
<LaserJock> svenstaro: until a couple weeks ago it was just myself that had upload/commit rights :(
<highvoltage> svenstaro: yes, but that's easy
<highvoltage> svenstaro: it would just be a usual package that calls update-rc.d in postinst/postrm. if it's only ever going to be on the livecd then it goes into the initramfs
<LaserJock> you guys might also have noticed that Edubuntu is no longer required to build from Main
<LaserJock> i.e. we can include Universe packages on the DVD
<alkisg> Yeah, that was a great decision :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> Michelle_Qimo: another app is "World of Goo" ... it teaches physics (sorta) while having gameplay.  It's a pay program.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Goo
<svenstaro> Why can't it all be KISS :/
<highvoltage> svenstaro: it's more or less as simple as it can be at the moment
<svenstaro> Ahmuck-Jr: That game is excellent but do we want kids playing that game all along?
<Ahmuck-Jr> Michelle_Qimo: i find kids learn well intuativly sometimes when they don't know they are learning.  other times, the gameplay gets in the way
<LaserJock> so right now we've got 4 app bundles, ubuntu-edu-{preschool,primary,secondary,tertiary} and 3 meta packages, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-desktop-kde, and edubuntu-server
<svenstaro> Ahmuck-Jr: Also the EU probably wouldn't like Edubuntu praising a single commercial game.
<highvoltage> svenstaro: you can't really put together a system as big as ubuntu together cowboy-style, there has to be proper ways to do things to keep it maintainable
<Ahmuck-Jr> svenstaro: imho, if you can get kids to connect the world of goo with popsicle sticks i don't have an issue with them playing games
<alkisg> LaserJock: it would be nice if those app bundles were selectable from within ubiquity
<alkisg> (even if it results in a post-install task)
<LaserJock> I suggest as a first step to get a DVD that works and to get the available meta-packages/task in good shape
<Michelle_Qimo> game playing has it's place.  incorporating intuitive learning into game play is so important, and yet difficult.
<svenstaro> highvoltage: Actually, I'm using Aufs2 overlays for my own distribution and while it of course isn't as big as Edubuntu, it does quite a lot of magic and I don't need a billion of packages (overhead!) but can just go, modify a confic file, bake the iso, done!
<Ahmuck-Jr> svenstaro: anytime you can get a child to apply learning with real world techniques, then it's a go.  do you know that children learn things really well with songs?
<LaserJock> svenstaro: right, but from our perspective we should never have to touch the actual build process
<LaserJock> svenstaro: all we have to do is upload a package
<highvoltage> svenstaro: and when someone needs to take that project over from you one day, they wouldn't know which files you have touched or modified
<Michelle_Qimo> Ahmuck-Jr: there are whole sets of language-learning tools that are set to song
<LaserJock> which is significantly more maintainable
<Michelle_Qimo> we have the French set
<Ahmuck-Jr> svenstaro: there are other more advanced phyics games out there as well
<Ahmuck-Jr> Michelle_Qimo: in linux ?
<Ahmuck-Jr> really?
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'd like a link
<Michelle_Qimo> no, unfortunately, not linux-based
<Ahmuck-Jr> :(
<Michelle_Qimo> actually car-stereo based.
<Michelle_Qimo> :-P
<Ahmuck-Jr> ah
<highvoltage> Michelle_Qimo: heh
<svenstaro> highvoltage: Yes they would, because the config files are an overlay that gets layered on top of the base system so that you effectively have only around 10 configs in there and they are all documented :)
<Michelle_Qimo> I'd *love* to have something for the Qimo machines that sets language learning to music
<Ahmuck-Jr> bbl, need to see the doc
<svenstaro> Ahmuck-Jr: What open source physics game is there that compares to World Of Goo?
<LaserJock> have you guys used brainstorm.ubuntu.com ?
<svenstaro> Of course
<sbalneav> OK, heading home for the day.
<sbalneav> See you all later.
<LaserJock> there are sections on brainstorm for Edubuntu and Education
<LaserJock> I would highly encourage people to use them
<LaserJock> sbalneav: cya
<svenstaro> Oh, that's another thing: I *really* think Edubuntu forums should be separate from the other official *buntus because the use case is *entirely* different.
<svenstaro> Edubuntu questions usually get flooded by Ubuntu questions too fast for Edubuntu people to even find that thread.
<LaserJock> well, we don't exactly have a forum period
<LaserJock> I had the Education & Science section of the Ubuntu Forums created to give some space
<LaserJock> but honestly I'm not sure we're big enough to warrant a forum
<LaserJock> could be in the future if things take off it would be sensible to do
<LaserJock> but right now I think it might be "yet another thing we have to maintain"
<LaserJock> unfortunately that's the way a lot of things are right now :(
<LaserJock> we need some critical mass of contributors
<svenstaro> I wouldn't mind hosting a forum.
<LaserJock> you could put it up as a discussion topic at the next meeting
<LaserJock> right now I'm personally more interesting in getting a product worth supporting than support resources per se
<LaserJock> but that's sort of my bias
<Michelle_Qimo> I don't know what, if anything, I can contribute (my technical skills are minimal at best), but should anything come up that I can help with, please don't hesitate to let me know?
<svenstaro> Michelle_Qimo: w
<svenstaro> Michelle_Qimo: Write a user's experience analysis, for example.
<LaserJock> Michelle_Qimo: what kind of stuff do you do?
<LaserJock> any art, writing, marketing ... ?
<Michelle_Qimo> LaserJock: I'm an english major.  :-)  Most of what I do is advocacy & promotion, writing, etc.
<LaserJock> oh, excellent
<LaserJock> I'm about as far from an english major as you can get
<LaserJock> :-)
<Michelle_Qimo> certainly willing to jump on board with technical writing, etc.
<LaserJock> great
<LaserJock> something that I feel we've *really* been missing is some nice, usable, documentation for the educational apps themselves
<Michelle_Qimo> oh, absolutely!
<LaserJock> something along the lines of for a parent or teacher
<Michelle_Qimo> We've actually been talking about putting together a manual for the apps that we send out with Qimo.  I'd *certainly* be onboard for that
<LaserJock> like, we just shove apps at them
<Michelle_Qimo> that's the truth.  Here ya go, have fun...  well, that doesn't work so well sometimes
<LaserJock> but we don't really give them much info
<LaserJock> I think that would be an excellent contribution
<Michelle_Qimo> if a one-app-at-a-time schedule works well for you all, I'm more than willing
<LaserJock> whatever you'd like
<Michelle_Qimo> is there a standard apps list?
<LaserJock> one sec
<LaserJock> Michelle_Qimo: http://www.edubuntu.org/applications/8.10 is the best we have right now
<Ahmuck-Jr> Michelle_Qimo: i was thinking, if you had an idea what type of song/language things you might want, i've got a few muscian song writing friends and composers that might be able to put something togather.  however the programming would have to be for someone else
<Ahmuck-Jr> LaserJock: isn't that a list that nubae put toghater?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> we don't seem to have one for 9.04
<Michelle_Qimo> Ahmuck-Jr: I will think on it
<Michelle_Qimo> LaserJock: I will take a look.  It gives me a starting point, at any rate
<svenstaro> I've gotta run guys. Can we decide on so much that I will try to split up the Edubuntu installer to (using plugins if possible) to different installation profiles?
<LaserJock> svenstaro: as a first step here's what I'd do, I'd talk with #ubuntu-installer about what the current abilities of Ubiqiuty are regarding plugins
<LaserJock> svenstaro: and then report back with a plan to edubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> if we can do it without forking Ubiquity altogether and just adding in some hooks somewhere then I'm certainly all for it
<LaserJock> we have some "profiles" already we can use
<LaserJock> and we can expand those, especially regarding LTSP
<LaserJock> I've gotta run too
<LaserJock> or else the PhD won't happen :-)
<LaserJock> once I've moved to Boston and have the Air Force thing figured out hopefully I'll be able to do some actual work
<LaserJock> probably for karmic+1
<svenstaro> I'll be gone as well guys, bye.
#edubuntu 2009-07-17
<chrissy> hi
<samek> hello
<samek> i'm having problem with sabayon
<samek> when i click edit profile application crashes
<samek> any solution to this problem
#edubuntu 2009-07-18
<Michelle_Qimo> i'm getting ready to start the 'parent/user guides' and need a place that can share them with you all.  Any suggestions?  also, any preference on the first application to start with?
<Ahmuck-Jr_> parent user guides?  as in application user guides?
<Ahmuck-Jr_> samek: iirc, it's a known problem.  i think sbalneav or stgraber was working on sabayon
<samek> Ahmuck-Jr_: thanks for your answer.. i found working .deb package posted in the sabayon mailing list
<samek> if anyone interested
<samek> Ahmuck-Jr_: you're right it was released by sbalneav
 * Ahmuck-Jr_ just realized something.  .04 is the unstable version and .10 is the more stable version
<Ahmuck-Jr_> so upgrading should be put off until x.10
<mhall119> what?
<ogra> ??
<ogra> Ahmuck-Jr_, you mean you belive karmic will be more stable than jaunty ?
 * ogra wonders what makes you think that
<Ahmuck-Jr_> 8.04 was unstable, hence 8.04.1
<Ahmuck-Jr_> 8.10 had more problems than 8.04.1
<Ahmuck-Jr_> 9.04 unstable until 9.04.1 ?
<ogra> thats nonsense
<ogra> 8.04 is a long term support release, from these new isos are rolled with the fixes included ... non LTS releases simply dont get new isos
<ogra> so there wont be a 9.04.1 ever
<ogra> all releases have similar issues ... some bugs are simply not fixed in time, for these we do stable release updates of the packages which you get as updates from update manager
<ogra> LTS releases are supported for 3 years and used in many business environments where people dont do network based upgrades, so updated CDs are rolled
<mhall119> For anyone who can help us with Qimo's development, I started a new launchpad team to coordinate us: https://launchpad.net/~qimo-developers
#edubuntu 2009-07-19
<LaserJock> evening Edu people
<pleia2> hey LaserJock
<HedgeMage> Hi. :)
<Michelle_Qimo> hi everyone
<HedgeMage> hi, Michelle_Qimo
<LaserJock> so what's been happenin' around here?
<LaserJock> I haven't hung out for a while
<HedgeMage> Me either.
<WaSeidel> hi i have a question i want to install edubuntu where can i find a manual to installation and configuration?
<WaSeidel> but no all at the same time please i can't read :D
<bluekuja> WaSeidel, http://www.edubuntu.org/Documentation
<bluekuja> WaSeidel, anyway for installing it, you just have to follow instructions on your video
<WaSeidel> thanks bluekuja
<bluekuja> WaSeidel, np
<WaSeidel> but edubuntu it's an addon i have to install first ubuntu right?
<bluekuja> WaSeidel, well no, you can directly get edubuntu without installing ubuntu first
<bluekuja> WaSeidel, http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
<WaSeidel> bluekuja: i already download but there says edubuntu addon
<WaSeidel> bluekuja: "Ubuntu educational add-on CD"
<bluekuja> WaSeidel, things changed yeah
<bluekuja> WaSeidel, I went away for some time so didnt know now we have an addon cd
<WaSeidel> thanks anyway the link can help me so much}
<bluekuja> WaSeidel, read the installation tips on http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
<bluekuja> and you will make it
<WaSeidel> thanks bye bluekuja i think i will be back here soon :D
<bluekuja> np
<bluekuja> have fun!
#edubuntu 2010-07-19
<alkisg> !info flashplugin-nonfree hardy
<ubottu> flashplugin-nonfree (source: flashplugin-nonfree): Adobe Flash Player plugin installer. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 10.0.1.218+really9.0.277.0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 18 kB, installed size 164 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 lpia)
<alkisg> !info ltsp hardy
<ubottu> Package ltsp does not exist in hardy
<alkisg> !info ltsp-server hardy
<ubottu> ltsp-server (source: ltsp): Basic LTSP server environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.0.40~bzr20080212-0ubuntu7 (hardy), package size 75 kB, installed size 808 kB
<tbiddle> hey, i'm new to ubuntu and struggling with getting flash to work in firefox (think it may be related to my 64bit system)
<tbiddle> anyone feeling in a helpful mood?
<alkisg> For general ubuntu problems, try in #ubuntu
<tbiddle> ok, what's this channel for? i assumed it was edu(cation)-buntu
<alkisg> Yup
<alkisg> But for generic ubuntu question, you'll find more people in #ubuntu, so you'll solve your problems easier there
<tbiddle> ok cool, thx
#edubuntu 2010-07-20
<coz_> hey guys
<coz_> well I am loving edubuntu... I always have but havent installed it for some time....
<coz_> I dont know what I was thinking :)
#edubuntu 2010-07-21
<renglaji> Hi, is anyone in this chat?
<renglaji> I am considering starting an education project in China, but I have some questions about the future development of Edubuntu
<highvolt1ge> renglaji: fire away
<mhall119> highvolt1ge: I'm off on vacation tomorrow
<mhall119> but qimo-gnome is doable, it'll just keep totally separate configs from ubuntu-gnome
<mhall119> for any app that uses gconf
<mhall119> I just need to set an env variable on session login, which I already to for qimo-xfce, telling it to look somewhere else for gconf settings
<renglaji> do you know if there are significant updates coming for 10.10?
<mhall119> there's always significant updates
<mhall119> highvolt1ge: do you know if I can setup conditional dependencies in a package?
<renglaji> right, but is there any reason to wait for 10.10 to start a deployment
<renglaji> in your opinion
<mhall119> not this far from it's release, no
<mhall119> besides, 10.04 is a long term support release, so you can stick with it for a long time if you want
<highvolt1ge> mhall119: kind of
<highvolt1ge> renglaji: oh definitely, it's worth while to wait or stick with an old version
<highvolt1ge> renglaji: in particular, there's some big changes coming in the livecd/desktop meta-packages that will probably break a few things for a short while
<mhall119> I think he meant should be delay his deployment until 10.10 is out, or go ahead and do it on 10.04
<highvolt1ge> renglaji: I wouldn't recommend deploying 10.10 anywhere until release (or at least *very* close to it)
<renglaji> mhall119 is correct, I meant do you think I should wait for 10.10 release do deploy, or go ahead with 10.04
<renglaji> it was my sense that Edubuntu was stalled for a while, but is picking up steam again
<highvoltage> renglaji: ah, I see
<highvoltage> renglaji: 10.04 is safe since it's LTS, most of the current improvements planned for 10.10 in Edubuntu are related to the installer and how optional extras are installed
<highvoltage> renglaji: 10.04 will also be easily upgradable to 10.10, so if you do decide to move over that shouldn't be very hard depending on your configuration
<renglaji> highvoltage: thanks for that information. I will go ahead with 10.04 then.
<renglaji> highvoltage: do you know if there are any plans to load edubuntu with easily accessible public domain information?
<renglaji> for example, ebooks that have already entered the public domain?
<renglaji> or at least make them more easily accessible?
<renglaji> or a wikipedia module that comes preinstalled for areas with poor ethernet connections
<bencrisford> highvoltage: meeting tonight? :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: it will probably be a super-quickie, I don't have anything to update on so if no one else does then it will probably just be a few minutes
<bencrisford> highvoltage: ok, its in half an hour right?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: oops, just discovered I have to be at another quick place at that time, so I'll have to pass. If anyone else pitches up and there's any discussion at all, could you take notes? (I doubt there would)
<Kyle__> Is there a way to remotely connect to the login screen?  I would like to log a particular user in to a particular session, so I don't have to walk them through it over the phone.
<highvoltage> Kyle__: sounds like VNC is what you need, this isn't to hard to set up by just choosing remote desktop from preferences, although if they're behind a router they may need some additional configuration
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i was afk, sorry :/
<Kyle__> highvoltage: Yes, but the issue isn't VNC or not, it's, how do I vnc to the login screen (GDM2)?
<mhall119> you'll need the xvnc extension for xorg
<mhall119> assuming you want to vnc to display :0
<Kyle__> mhall119: That would have it on for every part of the X session.
<alkisg> Kyle__: gdm2 or ldm? You want to connect to the server or to a thin client?
<Kyle__> GDM, their X session, mine if I'm there.
<alkisg> Those are different parts
<alkisg> Be more specific
<alkisg> ldm is the display manager of the thin clients
<Kyle__> alkisg: gdm2.  I want to connect to a desktop in one of my labs, and log someone in.
<alkisg> gdm is the one on the server
<Kyle__> alkisg: I was being specific, answering mhall119.  If you put the xvnc extension into your xorg, it shares every X session, IIRC.
 * alkisg thought he was on #ltsp - heh, ok...
<Kyle__> alkisg: Ahh, now I get where you were coming from :)
<alkisg> Kyle__: one way to do that is with italc
<Kyle__> italc?
<alkisg> Yes, it's something like a vnc clone that also supports encryption
<alkisg> (classroom management tool, but works fine for cases like those)
<alkisg> http://italc.sourceforge.net/
<Kyle__> alkisg: Hum.  Classroom management tools may be just waht I need.  I'm running several linux/unix labs.
<alkisg> Check the screenshots at http://italc.sourceforge.net/screenshots.php, they'll give you an exact idea of what to expect
<alkisg> It supports orginizing the clients into classrooms, so if you don't hit any of its bugs, it should be fine
<alkisg> (i.e. a different tree for each lab)
<Kyle__> Seems pretty interesting.
<mhall119> Kyle__: I think so, yes
<mhall119> every physical display anyway, I'm not sure vnc servers
<Kyle__> On the subject of labs and ltsp thin vs thick clients... what are other peole using for unified logins?
<Kyle__> I'm currently setting up LDAP, but it's far from painless.
<alkisg> Kyle__: I'm just using ldm ==> it uses ssh on the background. So user administration is like in a normal ubuntu desktop pc, i.e. with users-admin
<Kyle__> alkisg: Humm.  So, more or less it's just mirroring your /etc/{group|passwd|shadow} files?
<alkisg> It's directly using it, without any mirroring
<alkisg> (that's how LTSP works)
<Kyle__> alkisg: So you're using it with LTSP, or actually with other systems?  So they use the local resources as well?
<alkisg> Only with ltsp, i.e. with thin and fat clients. Fat clients do use local resources (cpu, ram, even disk if someone wants to etc)
<Kyle__> Guess I haven't looked at ltsp in a long time... I thought it was only thin clients.
<alkisg> Fat clients were supported in 10.04
<alkisg> I tried in a lab of 12 clients, local booting of 9.04 needed 40 seconds, while netbooting 10.04 (fat clients, 5 Gb virtual disk) needed 13 seconds.
<Kyle__> Not bad.
<alkisg> So I stopped installing/maintaining local OSes, I"m only using LTSP now.
<Kyle__> I'm hoping my setup won't be to terribly strange... but I'll be running virtual sessions for the users, if they want anything but linux.
<alkisg> There's rdesktop support in ltsp
<alkisg> With SCREEN_07=rdesktop, you _only_ get rdesktop, if someone wants it.
<Kyle__> Humm.
#edubuntu 2010-07-22
<kidar> hi, i need help setting up a classroom with edubuntu
<alkisg> kidar: hi, ask your questions, and if someone knows the answer, he will probably answer.
<kidar> i have managed to setup a server using ltsp. created a user and managed to logon using thin client. now i need to setup the server so that the teacher can monitor the thin clients
<alkisg> sudo apt-get install italc-master
<alkisg> That should do it... italc.sourceforge.net is the program web page, if you want to read more
<kidar> will it work with edubuntu 10.04?
<alkisg> Yes
<alkisg> (unless you hit any bugs, e.g. on a specific lab it used to crash on me every few seconds - on other labs it worked fine for years)
<kidar> do i need to install anything for the thin clients? this is a first for me so pls dont be annoyed with the questions
<alkisg> No. Just install italc-master and ensure that the teacher is in the admin group,
<alkisg> then logoff / logon the teacher, and then logon the user
<alkisg> It should automatically be able to monitor the user, and even take control of his screen
<kidar> in the new version of edubuntu under add programs there is a program called controlaula
<kidar> when u say teacher u mean i need to create another user as a teacher and use that user to logon to the server?
 * alkisg doesn't like controlaula at all, it's very non-professional
<alkisg> About the teacher, yes, something like that
<alkisg> The teacher accound needs to be a member of the admin group
<alkisg> The default account you created as part of the installation can be used as well
<alkisg> (it's already in the admin group)
<alkisg> Just remember to logoff/logon after installing italc
<kidar> ok, will try that. now for creating users (the children accounts) how would i do that, meaning i want to give them access for now only to the education stuff and office?
<kidar> one question how would i be abl to setup thin clients and normal pc to logon to the same server
<alkisg> What do you mean "normal pcs to logon to a server"?
<alkisg> Have you done that somehow?
<alkisg> (e.g. with LDAP?)
<kidar> see i have the edubuntu server setup with ltsp
<alkisg> To create users, just use the gnome users-admin program
<kidar> now i want other pcs in the class room which are not thin clients to be monitored by the same server
<alkisg> You can install italc on them too
<kidar> regarding users how can u prevent them from deleting programs of the server?
<alkisg> They can't, they don't have the rights
<alkisg> If you create a normal user from the gnome users-admin dialog (and not an administrator), then that user cannot delete programs
<kidar> ok
<kidar> would the dhcp running for ltsp give out an IP to a normal pc on the same network?
<alkisg> Yes
<alkisg> Unless you use 2 NICs on the edubuntu server
<alkisg> One for the thin clients and another for your existing network
<alkisg> But you can also use your existing dhcp server and remove the one from edubuntu
<kidar> i do, one is setup for the the ltsp and the other is on my internet network
<alkisg> Then your dhcp server will only be used for the card with IP=192.168.0.1 (or the one you specify)
<kidar> is there a way of also managing the thin clients ?
<alkisg> What do you mean "managing"?
<kidar> i mean for the classroom should i be doing anything else?
<alkisg> I can't think of anything
<kidar> ok 1 more question, firstly thank u very much for italc u are great
<kidar> no i need to know whether italc works on both nics or only one
<kidar> because i just ran it on the server and now it picks up my laptop which is on the internet nic
<alkisg> It runs on both
<alkisg> So you can manage both thin clients and normal pcs
<kidar> will it pick up the thin clients(ltsp) on the other
<alkisg> (and even windows pcs)
<kidar> great u r a star. do u know by the way if there is a version out in zulu. on sunday i went to a rural community center where they have some old pcs and 1 new one thought i could load edubuntu there
<alkisg> I've no idea about zulu
<kidar> just by the way, i am based in durban south africa, going to do 3 schools here, so if i can be of some help, i would not mind
<alkisg> Nice - I think highvoltage is from africa as well - I'm from Greece myself.
<alkisg> You may want to check about the new fat client support in 10.04 too
<alkisg> (instead of maintaining normal PCs, you boot those from the ltsp server too but as fat clients, not thin)
<kidar> meaning, i am still new
<kidar> where do i find help on the fat clients? booting from them will use less resource from the ltsp server correct?
<alkisg> It would use the local client CPU + RAM
<alkisg> What are your client specs?
<alkisg> How much RAM do they have, and what CPUs?
<kidar> the clients are acer, p4 3.0ghz, 512
<kidar> they all have hard drives
<alkisg> Yeah they'd work better as fat clients than as thin
<alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
<alkisg> And if they have a local swap partition, also put USE_LOCAL_SWAP=True in lts.conf
<kidar> do i need to install ubuntu on the fat clients?
<kidar> the current config of the clients is windows xp at the moment, i just took away the server, which has pf 3.0ghz 1gig ram and 250gig sata hd
<kidar> the class room has 24 pcs, so going to purchase additonal 3gig to make 4
<alkisg> No, you don't need to install ubuntu on the fat clients
<alkisg> Your setup is similar to what we use here in greece
<alkisg> Do your clients support "boot from network"?
<alkisg> (if they have onboard cards, usually yes, but if they have pci cards, usually not)
<kidar> i guess so :) as they are p4's with on board nics
<kidar> i have another school that has pci cards and they are using win98 curently
<alkisg> I guess those would work best as thin clients
<kidar> the pci cards are realtek, but need to check the bios i guess as these are old pcs p4 1.6ghz
<alkisg> I put grub4dos on our windows 98 labs, and load gpxe so that they can boot from network without using a floppy / cd etc
<alkisg> For windows 2000/XP/Vista labs we even developed a tool based on the debian installer, which again puts a "boot from network" option in the windows bootloader
<kidar> talk to me maybe i should do what u did, did u remove ur windows xp?
<alkisg> No we don't touch them at all, except for the boot loader
<alkisg> So any teacher that needs to work on XP can do so. So most of our labs are dual boot, windows + ltsp
<kidar> i will be very glad to do the same here
<alkisg> We even developed an italc replacement that lets us manage thin + fat client labs, but currently it's in greek only - we will internationalize it after 2 years. http://wiki.ubuntu-gr.org/sch-scripts/screenshots
<alkisg> Here's the boot manager for 2000/XP/Vista (it's not working on windows 98 nor on windows 7): http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2136.0;attach=1617
<alkisg> For the windows 98 labs, the easiest way is to use a floppy from: http://rom-o-matic.net/gpxe/gpxe-1.0.0/contrib/rom-o-matic/build.php
<kidar> downloade first one.
<kidar> so with the win 98 i need to boot using the floppy?
<alkisg> There's another way, with grub4dos
<kidar> go for it, i am open to all the suggestions
<alkisg> Here's a google translation of a how-to I wrote a while back: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fusers.sch.gr%2Falkisg%2Ftosteki%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D1451.0&sl=auto&tl=en
<alkisg> (you only need that how-to for windows 98, not for xp)
<kidar> very nicely done.
<kidar> may i ask what do u do in greece
<alkisg> I'm a teacher, but I'm also in charge of deploying LTSP in greek schools
<alkisg> So I joined the LTSP development team a while back, helped in fat clients implementation, wrote 2-3 ltsp installation manuals in greek, developed sch-scripts etc
<kidar> nice, u teach IT/ Linux i guess
<alkisg> I'm teaching in secondary schools, so nothing fancy - some openoffice, some web, a little programming in logo...
<alkisg> (IT teacher, yeah)
<kidar> i have my own IT company, worked for UNHCR in the IT section for 12yrs ,now on my own like ubuntu and want to roll it out to s many people schools, etc as i can
<kidar> tell me can u send the file grubpxe.zip here. i am having a problem downloading from ur page
<alkisg> Heh I forgot I also wrote that how-to in english: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/grubgpxe
<alkisg> Just click on that link: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1451.0;attach=830
<kidar> done. so are u always here?, as u have solved 99% of my problems :)
<alkisg> :)
<alkisg> I usually am, but I hope to be away for the next 2 years to finish a phd that I've started
<alkisg> I like it here too much though so I don't know if I'll be able to stay away for long :P
<kidar> goning to ask u a really silly question, in edubuntu they say they have stuff from primary to tertiary, where do u find this info. i have loaded it but what do i use?
<kidar> u are an asset here
<alkisg> Educational programs usually are in the Applications > Education menu
<kidar> yeh i know but nothin to point ot secondary or primary. anyway now i am going to test all that u helped me with.
<alkisg> There's "edubuntu menus" to separate different groups
<alkisg> OK, give all this a go and if you have any problems you can always come back :)
<kidar> i actuall have it installed on my laptop as the only os
<kidar> thx once again will be back to let u know how it went
<test_> hi it is kidar again
<test_> when i booted my laptop using thin client, the italc did not pick the laptop
<test_> hi alkisg it is kidar we chatted just now
<alkisg> Hi
<alkisg> So you installed italc-master on the ltsp server, logged off, then logged back on with a user that is in the admin group, and then booted your laptop as a thin client, and it doesn't see it?
<test_> yeh
<alkisg> Did you login on the thin client?
<alkisg> A user needs to logon before italc sees it...
<test_> the server saw the laptop when it was on the internet nic eth1 now i am connected to eth0
<test_> yep, i am chatting to u from the thin client :)
<test_> server is right next to me
<alkisg> italc is a little difficult to troubleshoot when it's not working out of the box, so to make it a little faster as I don't have too much time, can I help you with vnc instead?
<test_> ok
<alkisg> sudo apt-get install x11vnc
<alkisg> x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
<test_> on server?
<alkisg> Whatever :)
<alkisg> (all apps are running on the server anyway so it doesn't make much difference)
<test_> downloaded x11vnc, how do u connect to u?
<alkisg> (01:11:21 Î¼Î¼) alkisg: x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
<test_> i get a screen saying select x11vnc port
<alkisg> Run the above command from a terminal
<alkisg> Applications > Accessories > gnome terminal, and type the following command:
<alkisg> x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
<test_> done
<test_> r u in?
<alkisg> yup
<alkisg> test_: x11vnc has some keyboard problems, can you press "|" there?
<test_> do u want me to start italc
<test_> ok u did someting:)  so what was wrong?
<alkisg> Nope, I didn't do anything
<alkisg> I was just checking and everything looked ok so I just ran italc
<test_> then :) some ghost
<test_> i ran italc from the applications system tools
<alkisg> I don't know, I didn't do anything, I just ran the same thing from the command line.
<alkisg> OK, back to my phd... :)
<test_> yeh, will restart and hopefully all will work.
<test_> will let u know
<kidar> hi alkisg, its working now. no idea why it did not initially. thx for all the help Kidar.
<alkisg> Good to know :)
<kidar> going to take a break now :)
#edubuntu 2010-07-23
<Mspiggy> is this a help section
<hybridvigour> hi y'all, is it possible/advisable to add edubuntu to lubuntu or would it defeat the low resources idea of lubuntu? (p.s. i am aware that lubuntu is not canonical supported)
<mhall119> I think the edubuntu packages may depend on Gnome, in which case it would defeat the purpose, but you can install all the games on lubuntu
#edubuntu 2010-07-24
<Linuxie> hello
<alkisg> Hi
<Linuxie> i'm trying to add a radio station to the Rythmbox
<Linuxie> says i'm missing a plugin.. when i search for it it won't find any
<alkisg> For general ubuntu questions, you'd better ask in #ubuntu
<Linuxie> am i in the wrong room?
<alkisg> More or less, yes
<Linuxie> i'm using edubuntu live dvd
<alkisg> Type /j #ubuntu to go to the ubuntu channel
<Linuxie> those rooms are too crowded.. no one answers
<alkisg> edubuntu is based on ubuntu, so for general ubuntu questions, you'll get more answers there
<Linuxie> so what is this room for?
<alkisg> This channel is more focused to things that are _not_ in an ubuntu installation
<alkisg> E.g. for educational software, for ltsp (thin clients), etc
<Linuxie> well how about the irc client
<alkisg> Whatever you can find in the ubuntu live CD, you'd better ask in #ubuntu about it
<Linuxie> i have to use the webclient
<alkisg> You can ask here too, sure, but I doubt if anyone will answer...
<Linuxie> well there's nothing going on in this room anyways.. i'm just looking for some experienced linux help.. :)
<Linuxie> i'm new to linux
<Linuxie> i have been to so many channels.. folks just don't answer
<alkisg> You need to ask the right questions in the right channels
<Linuxie> there are so many rooms with many people but no activity
<alkisg> For rythmbox, there's an irc channel in the gnome server
<Linuxie> i'm been to ubuntu, linux, newbies, and all the respective distros channel
<Linuxie> been doing this for weeks
<alkisg> Well, if you have any educational software question, this is the right channel. Otherwise I don't think you'll get any answers here too. Try #rhythmbox on irc.gnome.org
<Linuxie> i went to #nvidia to get help as to why my desktop features don't work.. like compiz
<Linuxie> but no answer
<Linuxie> well i thought edubuntu was related to all questions regarding the edubuntu distro
<Linuxie> oh well
<alkisg> There's a good possibility that noone here knows to answer you rythmbox question. That's why the right questions need to be asked to the right channels.
<Linuxie> actually rythmbox is just an example i have many other
<alkisg> OK, the same answer for others too.
<alkisg> If they're educational software, then people here might know the answer. If not, they probably don't.
<Linuxie> i keep hearing about the sugar on a stick
<Linuxie> do you have any experience in that
<Linuxie> that's all education
<alkisg> Not personally, so just wait for any others to see that question and answer it if they know about sugar.
<alkisg> Also, it would help if the question was more specific, e.g. did you run into any problems with it? etc etc.
<Linuxie> some distros have it pre-loaded on the live cd or dvd but many don't
<Linuxie> so i would like to add but don't know much about it
<Linuxie> and there's not much help anywhere
<Linuxie> it is basically for kids
<Linuxie> between 8-12
<Linuxie> since i'm new to linux.. i really don't know which one to install on a hd
<Linuxie> so i'm trying to gain all knowledge so if i want to pools my own selection of software then i can do that smoothly
<Linuxie> some things work off the bat in some distros but in others it is a hassle
<Linuxie> i don't know how else to go about it..
<Linuxie> i have tried users group, various channels, read a ton of material, gone through some tutorials of which many are outdated,
<Linuxie> what else can i do
<Linuxie> sometimes installations don't work from the gui but they work from the cli
<Linuxie> but each distro has a diff way of updating, installing etc.
<Linuxie> my LUG meet once in a month and then theres not enough volunteers
<Linuxie> :)
<Linuxie> i'm not complaining.. just looking how else to go about it
<alkisg> I'm not sure I understand your problem.
<Linuxie> hahahah
<Linuxie> never mind
<alkisg> I believe you need a book :)
<Linuxie> thanks for your help
<alkisg> To read some stuff about linux etc
<alkisg> Here's one: http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<Linuxie> like i mentioned above i have gone through many things
<Linuxie> see the [14:39]
<alkisg> I'm on a different timezone, are you talking about (09:39:29 Î¼Î¼) Linuxie: i have tried users group, various channels, read a ton of material, gone through some tutorials of which many are outdated,
<Linuxie> yes
<alkisg> I still don't understand your main problem
<alkisg> Is it "how should I get help on a specific problem"?
<Linuxie> well.. tell me have you been using linux for a long time?
<Linuxie> how did you start
<alkisg> Or is it "I don't know what else to do to learn linux"
<Linuxie> well many times the questions are related to a specific distro and when i go to that channel i don't get a good solution
<alkisg> Anyway, gotta go, I hope you quickly find the solution to your problem. Bye.
<Linuxie> bye
<coz_> hey guys...there are no plans to elimiate Edubuntu in the near future is there?
#edubuntu 2010-07-25
<mohit> tell me how to download vlc with apt-get
<mohit> reply plz
#edubuntu 2011-07-18
<andrews> Hello :D
<Guest65138> Anyone feel like answering a question? ._.
<AndrewS17> Is there a way to get my wireless USB adapter WNDA 3100v2 to pick up?
<highvoltage> good afternoon
#edubuntu 2011-07-19
<delped>   CrÃ­tica ao LÃ­nux     Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  OlÃ¡, jÃ¡ faz algum tempo que eu venho tentando migrar para um software livre para que nÃ£o seja um dependente eterno do Windows, mas essa semana tentando instalar e usar a nova versÃ£o do Ubuntu tive alguns insites que me convenceram que eu e a grande parcela do planeta jamais vamos adotar o software livre, pois eles possuem erros entre si que o tornam incapazes de competir com o Windows, caso esses proble
<Barco_> Can anyone help with a Moddle specific question?
<highvoltage> Moodle? best is to ask and someone might possibly answer in a bit after that
<alkisg> Nah, "module", not "moodle" :)
<highvoltage> heh
#edubuntu 2011-07-21
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning mgariepy
#edubuntu 2011-07-22
<dgroos> Good Morning
<dgroos> I'm trying to make it so that my ip number is not shown in the irc's -- seems like a security issue to have it shown publicly.  Seems like some unscrupulous surfer of rooms could harvest those things easily.
<dgroos> Is this an issue?
#edubuntu 2011-07-24
<vanilla> hello
<vanilla> is anyone out there ?
<vanilla> bye
#edubuntu 2012-07-16
<mgariepy> stgraber, good morning
<stgraber> mgariepy: morning
<mgariepy> have you made some progress with the tablet this weekend ?
<stgraber> not really. Well, I know how the bootloader and the firmware works but that still doesn't help booting my own kernel (or at least booting it in a way where I can see what's happening)
<mgariepy> kk
<stgraber> the Kubuntu guy was supposed to help me yesterday but that didn't happen, I guess he got busy with something else
<stgraber> highvoltage: first Edubuntu deployment in India (well, first one on the map)
<highvoltage> nice
<highvoltage> I guess he didn't really make progress either then
<stgraber> well, he's supposed to have something that boots at least, which I don't
<stgraber> so it's getting kind of frustrating...
<highvoltage> well, we all want something that works, but there's limits to how far you can push some things. it's not worth while getting frustrated about.
<stgraber> the frustration is mostly cause by me trying to guess how to make that stuff work when rbelem already managed to do that... it's just that he's too busy to tell me apparently...
<highvoltage> I don't know him, is he usually on IRC?
<stgraber> yeah
<highvoltage> yeah I guess it's also frustrating that you couldn't use time that you had available for it
<highvoltage> c'est la vie
<highvoltage> I put in holidays for today and forgot about it
<stgraber> :)
<jbicha> hi, I just added a deployment of 1 and I think it worked but these errors showed up on the page: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1094994/
<stgraber> doh, yeah, these errors should have showed up on my side, not yours... they are linked to someone logging in without SSO in the admin UI
<stgraber> fixed to hide all errors from now on :)
<stgraber> and accepted your deployment
<bencer> highvoltage: stgraber are you around guys?
<highvoltage> bencer: yep, we were just talking about you a bit earlier :)
<highvoltage> bencer: well, I'm going to take a nap in a bit because I'm severely sleep deprived atm
<bencer> ok np
<bencer> highvoltage: let me know when u r back from your nap :)
<highvoltage> bencer: I'm back(ish)
<bencer> i'm going to be around until late, so take your glass of milk first :)
<ajmitch> highvoltage: fun trip? :)
<highvoltage> ajmitch: yes, totally, except for the last bit where I got stuck at the last leg of the trip, but it was worth it :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> missed connection?
<highvoltage> flights being cancelled due to bad weather... then my flight got through somehow, then angry mob of passengers around the airport caused more delays, then storm delayed us more, then angry people on the plane delayed take-off more
<ajmitch> why were they angry? just because of delays?
<ajmitch> I see that despite you being off in a foreign land, you've still got far more ARB stuff done lately than I have :)
<bencer> stgraber: highvoltage
<bencer> we were discussing today the stoppers we have to upload zentyal almost 3.0 to 12.10
<bencer> first of all
<bencer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openldap/+bug/82853
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 82853 in openldap (Ubuntu) "Add support for the smbk5pwd overlay" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<bencer> this blocks our zentyal-users module
<bencer> we need that, to sync samba4 internal ldap and slapd
<bencer> its just enabling the plugin in the rules and adding the control stuff
<bencer> its super safe
<bencer> i was going to comment later on that launchpad issue
<bencer> but not sure if you can do something else
 * highvoltage looks at that bug report
<highvoltage> bencer: stgraber is looking at the packaging in ubuntu and why it's in debian but not in ubuntu
<bencer> coolio
<bencer> after that
<highvoltage> bencer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openldap/+bug/82853/comments/12 seems like the problem for that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 82853 in openldap (Ubuntu) "Add support for the smbk5pwd overlay" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<highvoltage> bencer: oh, one moment...
<stgraber> right, so apparently it's actually building with heimdal-dev nowadays so I guess the binary package could be reintroduced, though it'd be best to talk to Chuck Short about it (zul on IRC)
<bencer> look heimdal-devel is already there
<bencer> yup
<bencer> exactly
<bencer> cool
<bencer> highvoltage: stgraber next blocking item, is samba4
<bencer> we have 2 packaging issues
<bencer> we will need beta3
<bencer> and if possible push a patch upstream
<bencer> i'm going to try to submit the packaging debdiffs today
<bencer> but this is something still we have to do
<stgraber> bencer: ok, are you talking with jelmer?
<bencer> nop, that was going to be my action for that
<bencer> since i know him already
<stgraber> bencer: he's involved upstream and dealing with some of the packaging in Debian and Ubuntu (he works for Canonical but samba4 isn't part of his work time)
<stgraber> ok, good, so we have the same samba4 contact ;)
<bencer> anyway, if we dont get this patch
<bencer> the problem would be the sync of existing users in slapd
<bencer> when samba4 is installed afterwards
<bencer> if upstream doesnt accept this patch in time to 12.10
<bencer> would be a known issue
<bencer> but not a big deal
<bencer> stgraber: and last thing
<bencer> printers is going to be broken
<bencer> because
<bencer> cups is compiled with krb mit
<bencer> and currently samba4 is compiled without cups support
<bencer> because of that
<stgraber> hmm, ok... I thought heimdal and mit got close enough nowadays that most of the time it doesn't really matter which time you build/link against, but I don't know how the cups/samba integration is done
<stgraber> bencer: btw, I suppose you know that zentyal in quantal simply won't start at the moment right?
<bencer> stgraber: ?
<bencer> current packages are prepared for precise
<bencer> were not tested yet on quantal
<bencer> i plan to upload new packages in 2 days
<stgraber> bencer: over the weekend I tried installing zentyal-core zentyal-dhcp zentyal-dns and zentyal-users in a quantal container and the install failed as the init scripts failed to start the daemons
<stgraber> ok, good, I can wait 2 days :)
<bencer> about dhcp i was told someone was going to upload a fix
<bencer> but we will upload new versions
<bencer> i think all that has been fixed in master, not sure
<bencer> stgraber: i plan to upload the same modules but printers
<bencer> and plus nut
<bencer> and maybe jabber+mail
<bencer> do you have interest in any module in special that is not currently in the archive but in the ppa?
<stgraber> I haven't looked at the list in the PPA, but intially I'm planning on just using dhcpd/dns/samba4+user
<stgraber> that's the minimal set that we need to build a working edubuntu-server. We can then extend that set to get new features later on
<bencer> stgraber: what about webserver?
<bencer> but its a supper simple module
<stgraber> not too sure how we are going to work on the webapps part of edubuntu server yet. The various services will be sitting in different containers, but we might end up using something like zentyal-webserver to configure the reverse proxy
<bencer> doesnt support reverse proxy :)
 * highvoltage catches up
<highvoltage> bencer: doesn't support a reverse proxy or just doesn't implement it?
<bencer> doesnt implement it
<bencer> we use apache
<bencer> could be implemented
<bencer> we just do vhosts and listen ports
<bencer> no more
<highvoltage> ok cool. you could do reverse proxy with vhosts so that's cool
<bencer> yup
<bencer> but i'm super busy now :)
<highvoltage> oh for sure I'm not asking you to implement it :)
<bencer> i have to some stuff for a customer
<bencer> and review my zarafa branch
<bencer> to can be merged asap
<bencer> because we are freezing yesterday :D
<highvoltage> aah
<bencer> would be cool if zarafa could make it into the archive
<bencer> there are some efforts to package jiraffe
<bencer> which is a rebrand of zarafa
<bencer> then i will upload the modules
<bencer> highvoltage: stgraber as upload can i apply to appear in planet ubuntu?
<bencer> *uploader
<stgraber> yeah, you're a member of ubuntumembers so you can add your blog to planet ubuntu
<stgraber> bencer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu
#edubuntu 2012-07-17
<bencer> stgraber: https://launchpad.net/~bencer/+archive/zentyal-2.3-q
<bencer> there you can find the new slapd package
<bencer> debdiff is clean :)
<stgraber> bencer: what's making the files land in slapd-smbk5pwd? I fail to see any .install or install prefix in the debdiff that'd make that work
<bencer> stgraber: the changes in rules
<bencer> if you download the package built
<bencer> you will see the plugin is inside
<bencer> actually, same code than its in the debian package
<bencer> copy&paste
<stgraber> ok, cool. I think it was still building when I checked this morning. I'll take another look later today and upload. thanks
<ajmitch> stgraber: fwiw, once you get some info on the zatab, I'm collating what I can find to chuck on the wiki
<stgraber> ajmitch: still waiting on rbelem... so far I can get it into debug mode (but not exactly useful) and boot from microsd (but with no output so not even sure it boots...)
<ajmitch> yeah I've got to find out how to get output
<ajmitch> even if it's usb-serial :)
<stgraber> I'd love usb-serial, then I could at least see what uboot is doing ;)
<ajmitch> are you using a pre-built armhf image currently?
#edubuntu 2012-07-18
<bencer> btw, zentyal is hiring again: http://www.zentyal.com/positions/qa-engineer/
<stgraber> highvoltage: wondering what we'll be talking about at today's hangout considering how little progress we've made so far...
<highvoltage> oh shit
<highvoltage> I thought that was next week for some reason
<ogra_> just get a hammock, i heard someone is well trained using the ;)
<ogra_> *them
<highvoltage> stgraber:
<highvoltage> Let's talk about Tablets
<highvoltage> Wed, July 25, 1:00 PM	
<ogra_> just film him swinging back and forth nicely :)
<highvoltage> it is July the 18th today right?
<ogra_> yes
<stgraber> highvoltage: oh, good, then ;) for some reason I had it noted with the wrong date apparently
<highvoltage> stgraber: even if we don't have much, it should still be ok. we could just talk about our intentions and get some Q&A, that could easily fill around 30-60 minutes
<highvoltage> ogra_: hehe, I just don't have anywhere to hang one!
<carli2> hi
<highvoltage> hi carli2
<carli2> does edubuntu have sth like a regulation gui for a techer-student infrastructure?
<carli2> adding classes with users,
<carli2> blocking internet
<carli2> blocking screen
<carli2> blocking programs
<highvoltage> there's a bunch of different tools that allow you to do some of those partially, like edubuntu menu editor and epoptes
<highvoltage> blocking internet is something you'd have to set up by yourself at this stage
<carli2> I wrote sth that has some of these features
<carli2> but it's hard to maintain for new ubuntu releases
<highvoltage> carli2: link?
<carli2> highvoltage: no link there. it's just an installation of a classroom
<highvoltage> ah
<carli2> but I versioned it
<carli2> https://bitbucket.org/carli/lehrerverwaltung
<highvoltage> it wants me to sign up to see that
<carli2> it's a login window for client side with a makefile that creates an install script for a random machine you want to be a client
<carli2> oh
<carli2> wait, i'll scan it for clear text passwords
<carli2> okay, should be open now
<carli2> yep. and the server software is a control GUI that enables to kill users processes, watch over programs, do backups
<carli2> optimized for easy use
<carli2> because other ppl than me have to use it
<carli2> the question is: can i migrate to edubuntu without losing features or flexibility that i had before (or better: improve)
<highvoltage> carli2: I don't know yet how lehrerverwaltung works so I have no way of telling
<highvoltage> carli2: gnome 2 is no longer available and the closest thing to that is gnome fallback, gconf is mostly moving to gsettings/dconf so some things like gnome nanny doesn't work at all anymore
<carli2> highvoltage: basically gives you full control over client's running programs
<highvoltage> (not that it used to work that well anyway)
<highvoltage> carli2: I suggest you test it in a VM or something (that's the best I could advise you on for now)
<carli2> highvoltage: the gnome2 things are just designs (own logos etc)
<carli2> which technique does edubuntu use to synchronize logins and files?
<highvoltage> carli2: in current releases it's up to the administrator to set something up, for 12.10 we're aiming to set up a domain using samba4
<carli2> highvoltage: i mean which authentication method and how are the home directories mounted on the client machines...
<highvoltage> carli2: ah, for thin clients it uses ssh / sshfs
<carli2> highvoltage: my solution is flexible and allows either ssh or xrdp
<carli2> highvoltage: but I dont have thick clients
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> carli2: sounds like your work has some overlap with epoptes. the author of that (alkisg) is currently on holiday but I think he'll be back here next week
<highvoltage> carli2: might be a good idea to talk to him too
<highvoltage> (epoptes website is on http://www.epoptes.org/)
<carli2> that looks good
<stgraber> alkisg, highvoltage: Uploaded edubuntu-netboot to the archive, once that lands, I'll do an LTSP upload to remove it from there, then merging should be quite a bit easier.
 * stgraber gets back to doing "real" work :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: nice
<highvoltage> alkisg: are you back?
<alkisg> stgraber: edubuntu-netboot? Is that an "extracted" package which will also help in syncing LTSP with debian a bit more?
<alkisg> highvoltage: hey, yup, back for a bit :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: ooh, nice
<stgraber> alkisg: yeah, it's a separate source package
<alkisg> Cool, do you have a link handy?
<alkisg> (bzr )
<highvoltage> alkisg: we finally got the tablets, will give you the tracking no as soon as its shipped
<alkisg> Nice!!! Thanks highvoltage :)
<alkisg> When I receive it I'll ask for any installation instructions we may have
<highvoltage> yes, hopefully we'll have some by then :)
<highvoltage> (currently we don't have anything installable, but that will hopefully change this week still)
#edubuntu 2012-07-19
<sunny_> hey
<highvoltage> hey
 * stgraber waves to queuebot 
<alkisg> ...what does it queue?? :D
<stgraber> it notifies on IRC when a package gets into the queue or when a build is available for testing
<alkisg> Cool :)
<stgraber> it's been running for a while in #ubuntu-release and #ubuntu-testing, but I now added flavour support so it only notifies #edubuntu for Edubuntu stuff
<stgraber> oops
<stgraber> wrong filter for Edubuntu ;) it was monitoring "core" instead of "edubuntu"
<bencer> stgraber: highvoltage do u know the status of auth-client-config and sssd ?
<highvoltage> bencer: I used sssd last year and it was working quite well, I didn't need auth-client-config anymore because of it, I'm planning to try it out against edubuntu-server again once we have some sambaness
<bencer> ok
<bencer> we should have samba ready for next week
<bencer> i was examining 2 days ago the things with kernevil, our samba guy
<bencer> he needs to change some things from the packaging to our scripts to we can use pristine samba4
<bencer> but maybe we could upload everything but zentyal-samba
#edubuntu 2012-07-20
<chat2> anyone here ?
 * highvoltage is
 * ajmitch is, but working :)
 * highvoltage too
 * ajmitch should be catching up on arb votes, but got big scheduled update & cleanup for our work product this weekend
<ajmitch> though I'd like to hear about any tablet progress you've made :)
<highvoltage> all we need is one binary file from the kubuntu guys
<highvoltage> but the tablet guys seemed to have gone awol
<highvoltage> I'm also still working
<highvoltage> big moodle site upgrade
<highvoltage> ...from a really big (as in, 200GB moodledata directory with a >5GB database) old moodle version (as in, 4 years old) to a new version
<highvoltage> not fun but has to be done
<chat2> anyone knows if its posible to turn the dhcp in edubunt off. Already have one on the network
<highvoltage> chat2: sudo update-rc.d isc-dhcp-server disable
<highvoltage> (that will stop it from autostarting)
<highvoltage> "service isc-dhcp-server stop" will stop it
<stgraber> does that actually work with the upstart job?
<stgraber> (the update-rc.d bit)
 * stgraber tests
<highvoltage> I doubt it
<highvoltage> but isc-dhcp-server isn't a startup job yet iirc
<stgraber> ouch, yeah, it creates a huge mess if you do that
<stgraber> highvoltage: it's, I made it one in 12.04
<highvoltage> oops, I got it from http://askubuntu.com/questions/19320/whats-the-recommended-way-to-enable-disable-services :)
<stgraber> chat2: use "echo manual > /etc/init/isc-dhcp-server.override"
 * highvoltage should really not trust that site so much
<stgraber> highvoltage: running "disable" actually makes it start twice (in case you were wondering what I mean by "huge mess")
<highvoltage> heh
<stgraber> as update-rc.d doesn't find /etc/rc* entries, it tries to "fix them" by creating them
<highvoltage> that script should actually be made upstart aware
<stgraber> making both the upstart job and the compatibility script try to run the same thing
<highvoltage> (in debian)
<stgraber> to quote man: update-rc.d - install and remove System-V style init script links
<stgraber> it's "service" that should be extended to support disable/enable
<stgraber> as it's already aware of upstart
<boospy> hi :)
<boospy> has anyone installed ltsp with connection to LDAP? I have some trouble with this.
<boospy> First: Connection with LDAP and normal clients work, also connection on the LTSPserver works. For example: NX or terminal
<boospy> Only when people logged in the Thinclient, sometime user can login, but it is a very long timeout. And then i can't see all menus, sometimes the logoutbutton is not here, sometimes there is only a whitescreen after login...
<boospy> whats going on? I spend a lot of time for these things.
<boospy> it is a special LTSP and LDAP auth?
#edubuntu 2013-07-15
<locodir-user> hello
<locodir-user> I have some questions
<locodir-user> any1 around?
<locodir-user> I have a problem with edubuntu 12.04
<highvoltage> hey locodir-user, feel free to just ask
<locodir-user> hello
<locodir-user> i installed edubuntu 12.04 ltsp
<locodir-user> i can enter the server pk
<locodir-user> and also i can load the users i created in the server everything ok
<locodir-user> but when i try to conenct fron another pc i just get the wallpaper and no menus
<locodir-user> when i tried live ltsp the result was the same
<locodir-user> i can log in  wo problems
<highvoltage> hmm, I've heard of someone having that problem before but can't remember what caused it.
<highvoltage> stgraber: ^^^ I remember you once asked me to test for that with iso testing once, can you remember what the cause/fix was?
<locodir-user> I guess it is not a file error because it works fine inside the server
<highvoltage> locodir-user: at the login screen on the ltsp machine, could you try to choose a different session? (like gnome-fallback with no effects?)
<locodir-user> i test it in 2 different notebooks as clients but it was the same
<locodir-user> no just the users i created
<locodir-user> and the adm of course
<highvoltage> locodir-user: ok, at the login screen though, there's a button for choosing another session, check if there's a gnome-fallback one and see if it works if you select that
<locodir-user> in the server u mean or for the clients?
<highvoltage> on the clients
<locodir-user> ok
<locodir-user> ill be back in a minute
<locodir-user> hello again
<locodir-user> now im writing from one of the clients thanks for the help!!!
<locodir-user> another question
<locodir-user> if i have only 2gigs ram in a pentium 4   3,4  how many clients do i really can have?
<locodir-user> 5 it is possible_
<locodir-user> ???
<locodir-user> sorry can I have?
<locodir-user> repeaet the question
<locodir-user> how many clients can a ltsp server have with a pentium 4 3,4 and only 2 gigs ram?
<locodir-user> 3 or 5
#edubuntu 2013-07-16
<Titanne> I've a question. I would like to use a wallpaper that is online (this one : https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/AlphaBackgrounds?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=jaunty-sunset.jpg) to create a personnal jersey for my ultimate team. They will not sale to someone, it's for personnal use. Do you autorize me to use it ??
<highvoltage> Hi Titanne!
<highvoltage> I saw your mail that came through to the webcontact form as well.
<highvoltage> that image was uploaded by a community member, not by us explicitely.
<highvoltage> however, the license for the wiki is a creative commons share-alike license: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/License
<highvoltage> which means that the content on there should fall under that license.
<highvoltage> unfortunately we can't confirm whether the person who uploaded didn't 'borrow' the image from somewhere else, and we don't have a way to confirm that either.
<Titanne> Ok find. How can I know which member uploaded that image ?
<highvoltage> Titanne: but since it's clearly no recognisable brand logo I guess you'll be ok.
<highvoltage> Titanne: at the top of the page, there's a small menu. the one item says "Get Info", it shows a history of people who uploaded to the page and made changes
<Titanne> @Highwoltage : I look to ''get iinfo'' and I found the creater so I will communicate with him. Thanks for your help !
#edubuntu 2013-07-18
<stgraber> highvoltage, mgariepy: sorry for the spam, cleaned up the deployment DB
<stgraber> now http://www.edubuntu.org/deployments/map is all pretty again
#edubuntu 2014-07-18
<diferoh> exit
#edubuntu 2015-07-14
<docjay> just installed edubuntu but no there ends up being no desktop, just wallpaper
<docjay> is there a driver issue possibly?
#edubuntu 2015-07-19
<Csernay> Hello, I have a Edubuntu LTSP server working with 3 Thin Cients. I try to connect a UEFI (no legagy mode allowed) PC but i cannot configure well the tftp to serve this machine. Has anyone already do this ?
<Csernay> Already posted this question on #ltsp but the Answer is : enable the legagy mode. But I cannot on my mini PC..
<highvoltage> cs<tab>
#edubuntu 2017-07-20
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-applets (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.22.0-2 => 3.22.0-2ubuntu0.1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2017-07-21
<benjaoming> I miss Edubuntu :( Is there a new forum for Ubuntu people in education?
#edubuntu 2018-07-18
<askoday> Bonsoir
<askoday> I am going to read TermOfService and come back.
#edubuntu 2018-07-20
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [3.0.1-0ubuntu1~16.04.3 => 3.0.1-0ubuntu1~16.04.4] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2020-07-13
<LinuxAgent> Hello. I am GLAT agent. Contact me to purchase a license for GNU/Linux ($99 single user, $49 volume).
#edubuntu 2020-07-14
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-panel (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.36.1-1ubuntu1 => 1:3.36.2-0ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
#edubuntu 2020-07-16
<richardh> Hi
<richardh> Is edubuntu still active as the Download page for 14.04 gives me a 404 error
<Lasplant> Hello :Download link not working for the latests release, any alternatives
#edubuntu 2020-07-19
<Excelsian> ok so alot of communication platforms have ended up with me having to prove over & over again that I am not a "robot".  I don't think robots interface many communications a person would, that's just creepy, but somehow this is going on.  WHAT ON EARTH ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT!?
