#edubuntu 2005-10-17
<ogra> you do that in the language selector in breezy...
<jelkner> ok, i just installed spanish language support for gnome and openoffice
<jelkner> i've tried putting the keyboard applet on the gnome panel before and switching to spanish
<ogra> great... the language selector does that automatically btw if you check the tickbox fr the desired lang
<jelkner> but i could never figure out which key did what
<ogra> heh
<ogra> you should ask a spanish person :)
<mhz> : would give you n
<mhz> } = accents
<mhz> etc
<ogra> but there must be a way to get tis with a us keyboard
<mhz> if it's live or dead for you, 
<mhz> I could provide a more detailed GUI map tomorrow
<mhz> well, Apple OSes used to have an application that showed all possible characterd output while you pressed some keys and combinations of them
<jelkner> i just asked the young man to log out, select "Spanish" as the language, and log back in.... nothing seemed to have changed
<ogra> jelkner, but you used the language selector to select translations and writing aids for spanish ??
<ogra> (from System->System Tools)
<jelkner> hold on, let me try...
<mhz> jelkner: the solution I mentioned did not ask to log out
<mhz> it take changes immediately
<ogra> yes, no need to log out
<mhz> anyways, i gotta go again
<mhz> ogra: i can't imagine how to bypass this card issue unless i use a diff distro.
<mhz> SuSe worked perfectly on this box before
<mhz> so did Debian
<ogra> strange...
<jelkner> ok, System -> Administration -> Language Selector requires sudo privaledges
<jelkner> mhz: talk to you later
<ogra> mhz, try to get hold of daniels probably he can help
<jelkner> and the guest user doesn't have those
<ogra> jelkner, yes, since it chnages global settings (installs the langpacks)
<mhz> jelkner: as soon as i get home, i'll open a gnome session so i could replicate what i think i meant
<jelkner> ok, thanks
<jelkner> this is an issue that will come up a lot, so i want to learn how to handle it
<mhz> jelkner: and this solution can be applied by normal users
<ogra> jelkner, you installed the langpacks only through synaptic, the breezy way is to use the langiage selector
<mhz> bye'all
<mhz> and thx again Lord Oliver
<ogra> its heh
<ogra> -its
<jelkner> ogra: aah, i'm installing spanish through the language selector now...
<jelkner> ogra: how is this for a solution, after installing openoffice spanish language support, he ran his document through the spell checker, which put in all the accents and stuff for him! ;-)
<ogra> yay
<ogra> cool
<jelkner> i'm thinking now we set up another guest account
<jelkner> called invitado
<ogra> :)
<jelkner> and when you log in a invitado, everything is in spanish
<jelkner> ok, library is closing, i've gotta run...
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> I have a problem
<Lord_Athur> I cannot use the floppy driver
<Lord_Athur> What do I have to do for use this?
<ogra> on a Thin Client ? 
<Lord_Athur> I'm sorry, What is a thin client?
<ogra> the terminals you use in a classroom ... the target setup for edubuntu...
<ogra> but if you dont know what it is, i guess you probably dont use it, which answers my question :)
<Lord_Athur> jejeje ok
<Lord_Athur> no I'm not using this
<Lord_Athur> I'm using the common terminal
<Lord_Athur> and it tells me this:
<Lord_Athur> root@N:~#  mount -t vfat /dev/floppy /mnt
<Lord_Athur> mount: el dispositivo especial /dev/floppy no existe
<Lord_Athur> root@N:~#
<ogra> in edubuntu ? 
<Lord_Athur> no
<_arkanox> modprobe floppy
<toddobryan> Hi...newbie question...
<toddobryan> I'm trying to install edubuntu on a server in my classroom.
<jsgotangco> hi
<toddobryan> We figured out that the IP address it asks for is the IP for the lab server.
<toddobryan> But then we need to use DHCP to get the IP address the box will have on the rest of the network.
<toddobryan> At that point we're lost.
<toddobryan> We've got two NICs in the machine.
<toddobryan> Any helpful pointers or ideas about what we should do?
<jsgotangco> you have a separate DHCP box?
<toddobryan> Well, this would be a lab in one room.
<toddobryan> We have our own server which the county supplies.
<toddobryan> Which is part of a Windows ActiveDirectory system that actually spans the whole state.
<toddobryan> The less I have to talk to people up the chain of command, the better.
<toddobryan> So, yes, there's a DHCP server giving out addresses to all the machines in the school.
<toddobryan> Is this not a common thing? Sticking a terminal server in a school that already has a bunch of windows machines?
<jsgotangco> sorry i was out for a while
<jsgotangco> well if you have a terminal server, it would probably be best to have it run on its own network imo
<toddobryan> If there were some way that the installer could auto-detect which NIC is connected to the school network (presumably by seeing if it gets assigned an IP by a DHCP server) and then magically configure the other one to hand out addresses to the terminals it would make things easier.
<toddobryan> That's not an option, really. The only connection to the internet goes through the school server.
<ajmitch_> wb ogra 
<jsgotangco> ogra, do we have rc?
<ajmitch_> I think the last daily was fairly good, right?
<ogra> nope, Kamion didnt have the time and now the build servers are busy with release testbuilds
<ajmitch_> is it worth grabbing the last daily release?
<ogra> i wanted to have it as RC, yes
<ogra> yup
<ajmitch_> ok
* ajmitch_ will resume wget then :)
<ogra> it wont change, main uploads are locked
<ogra> i cant change a bit anymore, so what is there is the release
<ajmitch_> so I'll probably have about 600MB of data left in my monthly quota until the 24th :)
<ogra> thus i didnt force a RC
<ogra> no rsync ?
<ogra> its way cheaper... 
<ajmitch_> rsync dribbles in at about 4K/sec for me
<ogra> hmm
<ajmitch_> it's painfully slow
<ajmitch_> I can get a single image at 180K/sec with wget
<ogra> syncing from yesterdays to todays costed me 6 min :)
<ogra> but wget doesnt compress and doesnt omit unneded data from the transfer
<ajmitch_> yep
<ajmitch_> but it's the only way I can get an image in time to test it
<ajmitch_> rather than waiting a day for rsync
<ogra> yup
<ajmitch_> so I'll just have slow internet after release :)
<ajmitch_> no big deal
<ogra> jsgotangco, the release notes you made are quite good, lets take them for final...
<mhz> re
<mhz> final?
<jsgotangco> okay
<jsgotangco> i'm just going to integrate the stuff with the breezyreleasenotes
<mhz> so I can translate them for final? educool
<ogra> mhz, i just tested xubuntu-desktop on a thin client... funny desktop :)
<toddobryan> So, is it possible to setup a server with two NICs so that one gets an "outside" address from a DHCP server and the other has an "internal" address which its terminals see?
<ogra> jsgotangco, nope, dont mention breezy features there, mdz was very upset that breezy features were in the preview notes
<ogra> toddobryan, yup
<jsgotangco> mmm?
<jsgotangco> ok
<ogra> jsgotangco, we should only mention edubuntu feature
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> it'll be clean and short then
<mhz> ogra: I haven't yet. recommend it?
<ogra> mhz, yes
<toddobryan> ogra, We're getting stuck.
<ogra> if you need a very small desktop
<toddobryan> We can't figure out how to join an already existing network...
<mhz> toddobryan: did yu read the wiki. there's a good page about it :)
<toddobryan> What's the title?
<ogra> toddobryan, the install asked you for a IP... that should be the static one for the thin clients
<toddobryan> OK. We did that.
<toddobryan> But then we couldn't get it to grab an external address from the DHCP server.
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup there is a link at the bottom
<ogra> linking to a page showing how to set up NAT
<mhz> toddobryan: site down. it is being merged, afaik
<ogra> just configuring the other card with the natwork-admin tool for dhcp didnt work ? 
<ogra> mhz, its wiki.edubuntu.org now
<mhz> oooohhh
<ogra> *network indeed
<toddobryan> So, it looks like picking 192.168.0.1 would save some headaches later.
<toddobryan> I'll try that tomorrow.
<mhz> toddobryan: the url ogra provided and the nat howto should do perfectly
<mhz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowtoNAT
<toddobryan> Well, I don't have the prereqs. The server can't connect to the internet.
<ogra> toddobryan, yes, and post install just configure the second card from the desktop with the gui tool :)
<mhz> toddobryan: basically, whichever range of IP you wish to use, then means you have to take care of editing everything else accordingly
<ogra> then go with an ip from your net and make the changes to /et/ltsp/dhcp.conf
<toddobryan> It could be that we were trying too hard. The student who was trying to do it is a FreeBSD head and may have been trying to use a command-line tool when the GUI would have worked.
<mhz> toddobryan: yes, do not edit /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf  ONLY /etc/ltsp/
<toddobryan> That explains the problem.
<mhz> FreeBSD is very similar to the linux tree
<toddobryan> (There are disadvantages to having smart kids.)
<mhz> but when we talk about LTSP, it depends on different trees
<toddobryan> I think he was looking in dhcpd.conf
<ogra> toddobryan, just use any IP you like, and then follow strict the wikipage... copy and paste will do for most steps
<mhz> toddobryan: the wiki is the bible
<toddobryan> OK. We did look.
<mhz> and if you dont find enough info there or you have doubts about the infor there, this is the living bible
<ogra> hmm, it hasnt even an old testament yes, only a handfull of pages :)
<ogra> yes, come here to ask questions... 
<mhz> well, bible started from scratch too!
<mhz> :D
<toddobryan> I think the problem is that we didn't think the fact that it wasn't connecting itself was an LTSP problem, so we didn't look there.
<mhz> i had same problem the 1st time
<ogra> yes, but it took them far more than 2000 years to get some hundrets of pages...
<mhz> and many others, that's why oliver wrote such simple notes on the wiki
<mhz> ogra: because they did not have MoinMoin wiki :D
<mhz> lol
<ogra> :)
<toddobryan> I wish my district didn't block IRC so I could try the install and know this was available when I got stuck.
<mhz> ?
<ogra> there are html based clients i heard
<toddobryan> But I'll give it a try tomorrow. All my kids are taking the PSAT, so I'll have some time.
<toddobryan> REALLLY?
<toddobryan> That would be awesome.
<ogra> google for it, i never used one myself but i met people here who did
<mhz> ogra: i couldnt help the idea of imagining what it would have been like if apostols had a wiki to discuss and edit each other's ideas. just imagine what a potential mess!
<ogra> heh
<mhz> John reverting Judas pages :D
<toddobryan> Thanks very much, all!
<ogra> toddobryan, youre welcome :)
<mhz> hope you're back
<mhz> and provide some feedback
<toddobryan> Wish me luck as I try to convince people to dump MS, at least in one lab.
* mhz wishes toddobryan luck
<jsgotangco> one lab at a time =)
<mhz> toddobryan: tell'em that the edubuntu apostols will go there and kick some butts
<toddobryan> mhz: first feedback...if you could auto-detect which NIC is plugged into the network and which isn't and configure appropriately, that would get rid of one possible source of stupidity (or Wiki-illiteracy :-)
<jsgotangco> Linux for Young Human Beings???
<mhz> lol
<toddobryan> Ever hear of the Children's Crusade?
<jsgotangco> ogra, what happened to our frontpage???
<mhz> toddobryan: it does autodetect if you specify to use DHCP
<jsgotangco> i know were doing a transition...
<ogra> jsgotangco, wiki merge going on
<mhz> and if your network provides DHCP
<toddobryan> After the install?
<mhz> yes
<toddobryan> OK>
<mhz> once you log in
<toddobryan> .
<toddobryan> I'll give this another try tomorrow.
<toddobryan> Thanks!!!
<mhz> u r welcome
<ogra> toddobryan, i planned to autogenerate the dhcpd.file, but my patch wasnt accepted by our release manager anymore it was to late in teh release cycle...
<mhz> he left
<ogra> yup i saw it while hitting enter
<mhz> boo
<ogra> hey, its 5am here... i'm allowed to miss stuff :)
<toddobryan> ok, thx ogra :)
<ogra> (sitting here since 11am)
<mhz> lol
<mhz> your poor butt is beging you for some minimum considerations
<mhz> jsgotangco: what time's it there?
<jsgotangco> errr 11:20am
<mhz> will we have the wed meeting?
<jsgotangco> if ogra is still awake at that time heh. he's currently doing an all-nighter
<ogra> oh, damned, according to our webpage i missed the release on the 10th
<mhz> hhehehe
<mhz> lol
<ogra> and i even find weird errors in webpages :)
<jsgotangco> heh the site is down at the moment (elmo must be fixing something)
<mhz> unbelievable, ogra still has some sense of good humour
<mhz> wiki.edubuntu?
<ogra> nope, www.edu....
<jsgotangco> hehe
<ogra> it was from the cache here, the site is down ...
<ogra> ok, enough for today... night all
<jsgotangco> night ogra 
<ajmitch_> night ogra 
<ajmitch_> sleep well :)
<mhz> re
<mhz> which is the polemic desktop bg in GNOME?
<mhz> I see no girl
* highvoltage catches up
<highvoltage> yippee, dns, etc sorted!
<JaneW> highvoltage: YAY :))
<highvoltage> JaneW: and hno73 has done some nice design tweaks too.
<highvoltage> JaneW: he sent you the link?
<jsgotangco> hi JaneW 
<highvoltage> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey jonathan
<JaneW> highvoltage: no, I saw monday's link last... got one for me?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: howdy :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: when does your new job start?
<jsgotangco> JaneW, mid-november
<jsgotangco> why?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: oic, so still 6 weeks or so...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: just wondering
<jsgotangco> JaneW, since we don't have an RC our RC annoucment would be our gold annoucement i guess
<JaneW> I think so yes
<ajmitch_> hi JaneW 
<jsgotangco> JaneW, are you planning for another edubuntu summit?
<JaneW> we will borrow from the ubuntu announcement, but then must focus on what and why edubuntu is...
<JaneW> ajmitch_: morning (nearly evening for you I guess)
<jsgotangco> JaneW, done : http://wiki.edubuntu.org/DraftBreezyRC
<JaneW> jsgotangco: sabdfl said we prolly would get another, but he wants to review our release to see how impressed he is
<jsgotangco> JaneW, err http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuReleaseCandidate rather....
<JaneW> presuming we do a edubuntu dapper (which is intended) we'll need to impress eveyone with it
<JaneW> hopefully at ubz we can harness some more developer input, so Oli doesn;t have to shoulder the whole release virtually by himself again...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: thanks I'll take a look
<ajmitch_> more volunteers would be good
<ajmitch_> I think with a first release you'll get more people interested 
<jsgotangco> i can focus on just edubuntu itself if asked
<jsgotangco> the last few days was a backbreaker for the docteam or whoever is left contributing
* jsgotangco should stop slacking off and start collecting brownie points to upload
* ajmitch_ should just stop slacking off
<jsgotangco> at least you can upload atm
<ajmitch_> yeah
<ajmitch_> hopefully I can commit a decent amount of time for dapper
<JaneW> the input of both of you is very appreciated
* Burgundavia is current slack hardcore mode when it comes to Ubuntu
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, did you sort out your thing with userful? or just can't do much because of the work?
<Burgundavia> I sorted out things with Userful. No restrictions for at least 6 months
<Burgundavia> but softly, softly is the word
<highvoltage> JaneW: can you get a quote, for what it would cost to clone oli? ;)
<JaneW> highvoltage: heh good idea
<highvoltage> i feel bad about how much he did, and how little i could do, i really couldn't do much either, time tying me down at work.
<JaneW> Burgundavia: hi, I wanted to ask you something last night
<Burgundavia> shoot
<JaneW> highvoltage: understood
<JaneW> Burgundavia: was looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HoaryHedgehog
<Burgundavia> yep
<ajmitch_> hm? sabdfl wants edubuntu delayed?
<JaneW> Burgundavia: and was wondering if you are willing and able to do something similar with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBadger (which is virtually abandoned) but still listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
<JaneW> ajmitch_: huh?
<ajmitch_> 20:32 < sabdfl> Kamion: can we delay edubuntu without affecting everything else?
<JaneW> sheesh, and sabdfl just pinged me...
<Burgundavia> JaneW, make it a clearing house page for various Breezy things?
<jsgotangco> christ
<Burgundavia> JaneW, the earliest I will be able to seriously touch it will be the weekend, but I will do it
<jsgotangco> JaneW, about?
<JaneW> Burgundavia: that would be great, anything which makes the page more relevant would be great
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I ponged and no he hasn't said anything...
<JaneW> ajmitch_: what did mdz respond?
<Burgundavia> JaneW, it is 1am here, I think he is asleep
<ajmitch_> no responses yet
<Burgundavia> speaking of which, I must crash as well
<JaneW> we asked mdz if we could stagger the release previously and he said no
<JaneW> mdz is talking
<JaneW> in #u-d
<Burgundavia> JaneW, if you have anything specific you want done with the BreezyBadger page, should fire me an email
<Burgundavia> beyond what we just discussed
<JaneW> Burgundavia: I just noticed it was OLD (since before UDU), I haven't time to really plan anything now, but anything that makes sense would help, perhaps point ro release notes and BreezyGoals etc?
<jsgotangco> i'll just do it
<jsgotangco> i'll just comment the whole page just to be safe
<jsgotangco> and add whatever needs to be there
<ajmitch_> hm? I don't see mdz around at all :)
<JaneW> ajmitch_: he may have left, he was saying it was 10pm, so perhaps that was some time ago... sorry
<JaneW> ogra: PING (when you are up)
<ajmitch_> yeah, it was, he was off for a bit of rest before attacking the release again
<JaneW> does anyone has=ve the link to the edubuntu screenshots in osdir?
<ajmitch_> http://osdir.com/Article7267.phtml
<JaneW> sabdfl HATES our wallpaper
<JaneW> http://art.ubuntu.com/images/backgrounds/EdubuntuGirl_1024x768.jpg
<ajmitch_> if it's the same one in that screenshot, I don't blame him :)
<ajmitch_> that's.. bright :)
<JaneW> no we changed it from the mustard one
<JaneW> to the little girl
<jsgotangco> she doesn't like edubuntu girl?
<JaneW> he
<JaneW> but it was one of the top rated ubuntu wall papers for week and we voted on it
<ajmitch_> heh :)
<JaneW> weeks even
<JaneW> and the whole idea was, fun, young and vibrant
<ajmitch_> yes
<ajmitch_> it captures that idea well
<ajmitch_> but I don't think I'd like it on my desktop
<JaneW> but who keeps the default wall paper anyway?
<ajmitch_> not I
<JaneW> PLUS it is aimed at 6-18 year olds not adults
* ajmitch_ has a photo of his 2 month old niece instead :)
<jsgotangco> my daughter likes edubuntu girl
* JaneW has photos of her kids ;)
<JaneW> exactly the target market likes it
* JaneW wonder if job ads seraches will be required soon
<jsgotangco> job ad search?
* ajmitch_ might have to start asking sabdfl if there's job openings :)
<jsgotangco> i'd probably apply but i doubt if i'm good enough
<JaneW> ajmitch_: mine might be open soon
<ajmitch_> JaneW: I hope not
* JaneW too
<jsgotangco> JaneW, eh??
<JaneW> sigh
<ajmitch_> it's not all bad :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: PING URGENT
* jsgotangco rests a bit
<highvoltage> JaneW: PONG have to go in like 40s
<JaneW> highvoltage: URL for new wiki, web layouts please
<JaneW> just sent mail to mark and wanted latest ver
<jsgotangco> henrik had the layout right?
<JaneW> argh what happened to http://www.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords???
<jsgotangco> go to wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords
<JaneW> oh yay http://www.edubuntu.org/ is gone
<JaneW> can you guys remember when it was we decided on the edubuntu girl wallpaper?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: ta
<jsgotangco> i didnt know edubuntu girl was decided at all...i just said " like it" compared to the mustard backtground
<JaneW> we had a discussion about it
<JaneW> I thought it was in a meeting but it must have been here on the #
<JaneW> sabdfl wnats to know where, when , who etc
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> are we having a meeting later?
<JaneW> yes
<jsgotangco> JaneW, i think the fuss about edubuntu girl is the face, not the backgroud itself...
* JaneW is feeling a bit deflated ...
<ajmitch_> why deflated?
<JaneW> 'This is absolutely NOT of the quality I would expect from EduBuntu.'
<jsgotangco> gahhhh
<jsgotangco> because of the wallpaper?
<JaneW> yup
<ajmitch_> ouch
<jsgotangco> well it would have helped if ogra had some help really
<jsgotangco> we could count in our hands who contributed
<jsgotangco> ajmitch_, what did you grab 12.1?
<ajmitch_> yes, I did
<jsgotangco> this is what's being tested now?
<ajmitch_> I believe so
<ajmitch_> of ubuntu, anyway
<ogra> JaneW, pong 
<ajmitch_> I was grabbing 20051012 of edubuntu
<ajmitch_> hi ogra 
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> yes right, it has the same time (12.0 and current)
<ajmitch_> what's wrong?
<JaneW> ogra: seen the mails yet today?
<ogra> just reading
<jsgotangco> ajmitch_, i'm grabbing an image atm
<JaneW> ogra: let me know if you agree with my response (been getting grilled this am)
<ogra> JaneW, <Kamion> ogra: make a new edubuntu-artwork upload with wallpaper the way sabdfl wants it
<ogra> <ogra> Kamion, ok
<ogra> <Kamion> and do it quickly
<JaneW> ogra: I haven;t had any feedback as to what he wants though
<JaneW> ogra: I asked
<JaneW> PM and e-mail
<ogra> i was fine with the "mustard", but now i need a quick suggestion...
<JaneW> no sabdfl doesn;t like the mustard
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<JaneW> JaneW that is consistently the most popular edubuntu wallpaper
<JaneW> JaneW it was one of the top rated of all wallpapers for a few weeks, and this one was not done by Oliver, but by a community member
<JaneW> JaneW it was also discussed and agreed in the channel and in an edubuntu meeting. I am happy to change it though if it is not acceptable.
<JaneW> JaneW this was the previous wallpaper (the one ogra put together in 10mins)  http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=434&slide=4&title=edubuntu+5.10+preview+screenshots
<JaneW> sabdfl hmm... it's certainly an improvement on that, yes
<JaneW> sabdfl i'm just amazed there was no professional artwork
<ogra> ok
<JaneW> ogra: see new e-mail
<JaneW> *GRIN*
<JaneW> edubuntu girl stays
<jsgotangco> oh my
* JaneW 's ability to argue and justify a point remains
<JaneW> the world is not ending
<ajmitch_> heh :)
<ajmitch_> well done
<JaneW> *dance of joy*
<jsgotangco> i like edubuntu girl really
<jsgotangco> i was about to suggest DawnOfUbuntu
<ogra> hmm, sad, that would have been *the* opportunity to fix the css colors for about edubuntu....
<ogra> but well..
<jsgotangco> hmm yeah
<JaneW> ogra: LMAO
<JaneW> ogra: so you welcomed this
<JaneW> dang should have spoken up earlier ;)
<jsgotangco> well it would have been a good opportunity to actually push the other things that were cancelled (like the yelp page)
<ogra> heh, i dont really care ;) i liked the mustard, i like edubuntugirl and i have no problem that our about page has a white background... its a ll well :) it would have been space for improvement but i'm really not after more work ;)
<jsgotangco> for 3.5 months of work, this is pretty big i'd say
<enyc> I would just like to pount out the edubuntu main homepage confusingly says 'On Thursday October 10th we will release Edubuntu 5.10'
<jsgotangco> heh yep
<ogra> heh, yes
<enyc> does that mean cd images etc...?
<ogra> yes, we release tomorrow, its a typo on the site :)
<enyc> ;-)
<enyc> btw
<enyc> erm
<enyc> i notice TuxPaint annoyingly doesnt use ESD sounh ;-(
<enyc> but 'esddsp tuxpaint' works....
<enyc> discovered this last nicht...
<enyc> night even
<ogra> hmm... i'm not allowed to change a byte anymore on the CD images... file a bug so we can sort it for next release
<enyc> sure...
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<enyc> but Im trying to type dvorak atm........
<enyc> im not quite there yet ;-)
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> ogra: how are you doing?
<JaneW> ogra: is our RC our Release?
<ogra> fine, very tired... i was up until 5:30
<JaneW> ouch
<ogra> yes, Kamion was just to busy yesterday... and i didnt see the point of making a RC 8h before archive lockdown
<JaneW> ogra: can you hack a list of cool features together, baring in mind matt's comments from last time, they must be about Edubuntu so we can prepare the release notice
<ogra> i'm just starting my test install of the final image
<jsgotangco> JaneW, yup hehehe we were doing the RC annoucement last night but i asked ogra if its still needed...
<JaneW> ogra: also I'll need to get Matt to pre-approve it this time
<ogra> yes
<JaneW> jsgotangco: we'll just turn it into the release announcement
<jsgotangco> JaneW, its in the wiki
<ogra> the Rc announcement already has a small list, i'll enhance that one... i wiped all ubuntu features
<jsgotangco> its quite clean already
<JaneW> ogra: so we must put it up on a wiki page as he requested
<JaneW> jsgotangco: great
<JaneW> jsgotangco: awesome, you guys rock
<ogra> err clean == very small :)
<JaneW> and ogra ^^
<JaneW> ok make it dirty then
<JaneW> ;)
<ogra> the list should be longer... lets see what comes to my mind...
<jsgotangco> known edubutu-specific issues
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> make a big announcement about the ultra cool wall paper :P
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> i agree with phillip from the ML that its to distracting... but i have no children so i'm the wrong one to judge...
<jsgotangco> my kid loves it!
<ogra> btw, i tested xfce last night, its a real slick solutionfor a lightweight desktop :)
<JaneW> quote from my persuasive e-mail: "I agree that grown adults don't always like the BRIGHT look, but children (and people who know children) consistently do."
<ogra> and it works great with ltsp
<ogra> JaneW, but i think sabdfl is right, we should get a professional artist next time... regarding that we only need wallpaper and splash that shouldnt be to expensiver
<ogra> -r
<JaneW> ogra agreed
<jsgotangco> it would have helped if development started earlier? hello?
<JaneW> JaneW so can we keep it as is for now? (re-email)
<JaneW> JaneW I didn't realise a professional design was an option, sorry.
<JaneW> sabdfl yes, go ahead
<ogra> heh, yes, that too
<JaneW> ogra is the ubuntu stuff done professionally?
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> if so I had no idea
<JaneW> I thought it was community/staff created
<ogra> wallpaper, splash and usplash are done by cliff
<JaneW> see I never get answers when asking about the artwork
* jsgotangco keeps quiet now
<ogra> the artwork team (community) is still missng a direction, they just throw random stuff togetheer
<ogra> this needs to get sorted for dapper... probably we can get something from them then
<ajmitch_> they probably need to work to some specs :)
<ogra> but the current state wouldnt have given us high quality work, even if they all do technically good stuff...
<ogra> yes...
<ogra> jdub was hoping to get at least a set of calendar images from them... but they still havent any direction or theme for this...
<ogra> oh, heh
<ogra> and i'm alone in #ubuntu-artwork 
<ajmitch_> heh
<ogra> cosy hanging around with the logbot
<ajmitch_> even #ubuntu-bugs sees more action
<JaneW> ogra: make a noise
<JaneW> weird though because art work is the fun stuff, should be popular
<ogra> to much reverb in this empty room ;)
<ogra> its like a chrurch... you get echoes if you get to loud in empty IRC channels ;)
<ajmitch_> hah
<ajmitch_> JaneW: not nearly as popular as MOTU work!
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> heh
<JaneW> yeah I guess super heros always get all the attention :P
<ajmitch_> heh
<ajmitch_> super heroes like ogra :)
<ogra> MOTU really starts to grow up ... and i had no time to give a hand this release
<ogra> but luckily there is dholbach :)
<ajmitch_> ogra: we've successfully managed to get things done without you, and even when dholbach has been away
<ogra> (who is swamped in main stuff too now)
<ajmitch_> there are some good leaders in the MOTU crowd
<ogra> ajmitch_, thats what i maent with "grown up" 
<ogra> MOTU doesnt need external lead anymore... 
<ajmitch_> btw I got the introdeveloperdocs from unfrgiven today
<ogra> yes, i saw your conversation
<ogra> how are they ? 
<ajmitch_> they look quite good
<ajmitch_> ~20 pages 
<ogra> yay
<jsgotangco> ajmitch_, wow!
<ajmitch_> OOo is not playing nice though
<jsgotangco> ajmitch_, can you forward me a copy ?
<ajmitch_> it's funny reading the old tb meetings, and mdz saying that the MOTU leaders should be community people, not canonical :)
<ajmitch_> jsgotangco: sure
<ajmitch_> http://ankur.ath.cx/ubuntu/IntroDeveloperDoc_v0.05.odt
<jsgotangco> just in time for breezy? hehe
<ajmitch_> JaneW: slightly OT, but are you the one to talk to about bounties? :)
<jsgotangco> alright i'm gonna go out first and buy some food
<jsgotangco> i'll surely attend the meeting
<jsgotangco> brb
* highvoltage speedreads trying to catch up
<highvoltage> JaneW: where did the current wallpaper come from?
<JaneW> highvoltage: the stats quo is maintained
<highvoltage> JaneW: keeping with the mustard?
<JaneW> highvoltage: a community member
<JaneW> no keep edubuntu girl
<highvoltage> cool, i like edubuntu girl
<JaneW> highvoltage: sabdfl love the website and wiki design btw
<highvoltage> JaneW: I can access edubuntu.org, are you still having problems?
<highvoltage> JaneW: did he see the real website? the one currently up is a bit incomplete.
<JaneW> I was expecting to get the heat about those to, but he said "those look rather excellent. The Wiki skin and website skin both look very high quality. Well done."
<JaneW> so congrats, well done and thank-you :))))
<JaneW> yes I can access now
<highvoltage> JaneW: you're feeling deflated now, but when Edubuntu 6.04 is released as a super-duper release, and compared to this one, you're going to feel excellent.
<JaneW> highvoltage: hno73 has been working with Znarl again this morning, they want to do the wiki migration later too
<highvoltage> i'm putting in leave for almost the entire december just to help out with edubuntu :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: cool
<JaneW> highvoltage: yippee
<highvoltage> i want to be like ogra one day, i think he's the best.
<highvoltage> even better than mds.
<highvoltage> mdz even.
<JaneW> highvoltage: hopefully a lot of ppl will help with edu over the festive season and we can make some good and early progress for 6.04
<JaneW> heh
* JaneW agrees
<JaneW> when we grow up right ? ;)
* JaneW dreamed we were at UBZ and edu was done. I dreamed a bought a cigar for ogra :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, which might not be a long time
<JaneW> might have to do it now :)
<JaneW> s/a/I
* highvoltage might need at least a month or two
* ajmitch_ might have to help out with edubuntu as well when he has 'spare time' 
<JaneW> ogra: did you update kamion on the wall paper decision yet?
<ogra> JaneW, sabdfl did
<JaneW> ogra: ok thanks
<JaneW> ogra: are you up to a meeting in an hour?
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 1 hour
<ogra> JaneW, sure
* ajmitch_ wonders if he'll still be awake then
* JaneW is going to go get some air... wbbiab
* ajmitch_ needs beer rather than air
* ogra goes looking for a can of air while making the next coffee
<ajmitch_> heh
<ogra> JaneW, what are the "Edubuntu Breezy Installation wallpapers" ?
* ajmitch_ is so very glad that universe uploads are still accepted
<ogra> yes, i still have a bunch of pending stuff lying around here
<ajmitch_> I just got bzr 0.1.1 in, thankfully
<ajmitch_> mpool worked hard to get it ready
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> ogra: see link
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 5 mins
<JaneW> ogra: http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/31
<ogra> ahh
<ogra> ok
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting NOW
<mhz> Yagisan: welcome back
<Yagisan> G'day mhz
<Yagisan> how are things going mhz ?
<mhz> cool! educool! how about your site and family?
<jsgotangco> educool
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> don't start a fad
<mhz> fad?
<Yagisan> mhz: Haven't worked on the site today - Did my quarterly financials today - and ran into a problem with the 8139too driver http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9972
<mhz> that's ethernet card right?
<Yagisan> mhz: yes
<Yagisan> mhz: a fad is a short lived craze or fashion
<mhz> ooooohhhooooo
<Yagisan> the 8139too driver is a big issue - ALL of my ltsp clients have 8139 based net cards
<mhz> and that is a very very very common used driver
<Yagisan> yep - and broken in all recent kernels under high load
<mhz> boooooh
<mhz> I had problems yesterday trying to install edubuntu onto an old pc which has Trident video card, so Xorg complained a lot (still does)
<Yagisan> mhz: tell it to use the vesa driver
<Yagisan> memory may be tight on the card though
<mhz> really could work?
<Yagisan> yes - shouldn't be an issue (unless the card is ISA, then it may not work)
<mhz> oh, i'll see this evening (6 more hours)
<jsgotangco> JaneW, ping?
<ogra> mhz, do it in lts.conf ... there is a example in the ltsp-client docs anywhere
<mhz> ogra: oh, even cooler :p
<spacey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13916877@N00/48973686/ <-JaneW?
<jsgotangco> that's our jane alright
<spacey> aha :)
<spacey> so i know what to look for on UBZ :p
<mhz> spacey: what ot who to look for?
<mhz> :D
<spacey> so i can find janew i mean
<mhz> i know, just me being mean this morning, no worries
<jsgotangco> don't worry she knows kata box and aikido
<mhz> oooops
<mhz> my wife already kickes my butt everyday, my daughter does that too, and now by being mean, I got another potential agressor :D
* mhz is too stupid
<jsgotangco> mhz, how do you lock a wiki page when its supposed to be an open collaborative wiki?
<mhz> jsgotangco: basically, there are two methods:
<mhz> a) we can use ACL
<jsgotangco> the ACLs are set in the server we can't do that without asking elmo
* jsgotangco has configured Moin for some clients
<mhz> good
<jsgotangco> what's b)?
<mhz> b) we can use CategoryFrozen and ask elmo to implement a kind of script so that all pages under that category get frozen
* mhz thought jsgotangco was the moin admin for edubuntu :)
<jsgotangco> no i'm just a slacker here
<jsgotangco> question
<mhz> either way, we still need the admin guy
<jsgotangco> can CategoryFreeze be done by anyone?
<ogra> mhz, hno is the admin of the moin servers, elmo is the server admin, and highvoltage is the guy who cares for the visible stuff
<mhz> Henrik can implement SomeGroups with special powers and therefore we can use ACL and templates and Categories
<mhz> jsgotangco: only by those with access to use it
<jsgotangco> mhz, ah that's nifty then
<mhz> however, ACL + Freeze Template will do very cool
<mhz> because that way we do not need any script
<mhz> :)
<mhz> only the ACL right to use freezing features
<mhz> jsgotangco: ACL that are not "public" are cool because people dont even notice there are "hidden" pages when visiting RecentChanges. In the case of using a FreezeTemplate, people will see the page but this will be immutable
<jsgotangco> mmm
<jsgotangco> if you can grab henrik later maybe you can ask...
<jsgotangco> but we're merging wikis so it'll have a social impact
<mhz> jsgotangco: social impact...... maybe. People will understand we need to freeze
<mhz> eventually
<mhz> jsgotangco: OR we can use another approach
<mhz> EdubuntuMasterWiki and EdubuntuWiki
<mhz> like moinmaster.wikiwikiweb.de and moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de
<mhz> we all know that official docs are in moinmaster
<mhz> and those are the docs we see on our moin servers
<jsgotangco> brain overload..
<mhz> but all the work is being done daily on moinmoin.wikiwikiweb
<jsgotangco> we'll do that when we get there...
<jsgotangco> try grabbing henrik later...
<mhz> jsgotangco: hehehe, sorry
<jsgotangco> welcome back lady jane
* ogra glares at jelkners mail 
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i hate it
<ogra>  It seems that appearance was done as an after thought and is given little value by the development process.
<jsgotangco> i'd looooveee to rant at him
* ajmitch_ blinks in confusion
<ogra> do it, if you keep with the CoC :)
<ogra> " I can tell none of the current users of Edubuntu are actually pleased with the new artwork" ... how does he tell... we had exactly 3 complaints... so do we have only 3 users ? 
<jsgotangco> file a bug...
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> hehe
<mhz> ogra: you have jekner's email addres?
<ogra> its in the mail
<jsgotangco> on the list
<ogra> 	jelkner@divmod.com
<mhz> thx
<ajmitch_> which mail is this you're talking about? :)
<jsgotangco> "edubuntu desktop" in the edubuntu ml
* ajmitch_ spots it
* ajmitch_ needs more caffiene for 3am :)
<JaneW> ack I was disconnected for ages
<JaneW> did I miss anything at the end of the meeting?
<ajmitch_> wb JaneW :)
<JaneW> ty
<ogra> nope
<jsgotangco> nope
<mhz> nope
<jsgotangco> just talking about your hair really
<ajmitch_> talk about tshirts & the like
<ogra> JaneW, i made the next date the 19th 12:00 UTC...
<ogra> hope thats ok
<jsgotangco> and elkner's ass (according to flint)
<mhz> lol
<JaneW> ogra: thanks
<JaneW> ogra: of course
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: my hair!
<JaneW> what DID I miss
<ajmitch_> oh, not much :)
<ajmitch_> ogra decided that the next edubuntu release would be based off suse ;)
<JaneW> hee
<ogra> yes, i just started porting yast and incorporate rpm in ubuntu :)
<jsgotangco> JaneW, and thought of making the wallpaper nicer by adding your pic =)
* mhz would love to see more of gentoo based
<ajmitch_> ogra: rpm is already there, and you're behind on porting yast :)
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch_> http://yast4debian.alioth.debian.org/
<mhz> even better, Quinn's finger pic!
<jsgotangco> mhz, YES
<mhz> jsgotangco: we could use that pic for not-so-young wallpapers! LOL
<jsgotangco> let's see the reaction of the 18 year olds when they use edubuntu with that wallpaper
* mhz still mean
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:JaneW] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | First official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Oct 19 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | Preview Release: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<jsgotangco> JaneW, we're supposed to discuss about the release notes?
* JaneW catches up on end of meeting
<JaneW> fwiw my t-shirt said 'Lizzy' 
<jsgotangco> heh
<JaneW> jsgotangco: and yes my hair was short (and yucky) once ;)
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<jsgotangco> we all have bad hair moments
<jsgotangco> on camera
<JaneW> heh
<jsgotangco> JaneW, we're supposed to discuss about the release notes?
<JaneW> yes
<jsgotangco> ok im a bit cranky at the moment
* mhz_daughter BBL
<JaneW> jsg shall we give it 15 mins or so
<JaneW> jsgotangco: or is it past bed time?
<JaneW> tea-break
<jsgotangco> just tired
<jsgotangco> can't think atm
<jsgotangco> maybe later?
<JaneW> coffee?
<jsgotangco> how about now
<jsgotangco> grrrr
* jsgotangco reads email again
<jsgotangco> ok let's add a lot of edubuntu boys and girls in different colors
<jsgotangco> the guy who did the wallpaper probably didnt even consider the color of the girl
<jsgotangco> oh its Javacide
<jsgotangco> he's from Manila too i think
<enyc> what is this wallpaper i hear spoken about???
<jsgotangco> enyc, this one
<jsgotangco> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/13
<ogra> enyc, our final default wallpaper
<ajmitch_> very final now :)
<enyc> kk
<enyc> ogra: btw,  what is the best way to workaround/fix the tuxpaint-needs-to-use-esd  issue ?
<jsgotangco> ok that's nice to know Steve Torrefranca is from manila
<enyc> e.g. redirect the binary  or edit menu somewhere?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes he is from Philipines  but lives in Taiwan
<ogra> enyc, i have not looked into that yet.. i'll add a howto to the wiki
<jsgotangco> i'll send him an email
<JaneW> here's a pic of him http://torrefranca.org/dev/?page_id=2
<jsgotangco> JaneW, do you have his email?
<JaneW> and sides the girl is more yellow than white anyway
<enyc> im not sure this happens on edububtu cd install sinec ive not done this yet...... ;-)
<JaneW> and I didn't even think of race
<JaneW> and I live in SA where race has been a very historical issue
<ogra> enyc, most likely it will...
<JaneW> Steve Torrefranca <javacide@gmail.com>
<JaneW> frankly (and this is JMHO) if Jeff wanted a say perhaps he could have bothered to have got involved?
<ajmitch_> night all
<JaneW> night
<JaneW> ajmitch_: 3am now?
<ajmitch_> 3:30
<JaneW> yikes!
<ajmitch_> I got moodle 1.5.2 in
<JaneW> get some sleep dude!
<JaneW> THANK-YOU
<ajmitch_> but it still has the wwconfig-common deps, etc
<ajmitch_> so that'll need fixed for dapper
<JaneW> good good
<ajmitch_> my solution is still half-baked :/
<ogra> ajmitch_, i'll fix that as my first dapper action 
<ajmitch_> ogra: ok, sorry I didn't get that done :(
<ogra> dont worry... its secure and installable...
<ogra> that all that matters now
<enyc> ogra: .lease try install/run tuxpaint ;-)
<enyc> ogra: install 'esound-clients' then run 'esddsp tuxpaint,   ;-)
<enyc> ogra: install 'esound-clients' then run 'esddsp tuxpaint' even ;-)
<jsgotangco> yuck
<ogra> jsgotangco, yuck ? 
<ogra> enyc, sorry, i cant currently, i'm in the middle of release test installs... but i'll note that down for later testing
<enyc> kk ;-)
<jsgotangco> ogra: elkner's email
<ogra> jsgotangco, the "racists" mail ? 
<jsgotangco> yes
<ogra> yes, sigh
<jsgotangco> its out of hand (topic)
<ogra> the only chance to not make it a eternal thread is that nobody else answers...
<jsgotangco> how would the wallpaper maker react (he's malay)
<jsgotangco> yes
* ogra already sees it explode...
* jsgotangco ignores the thread then
<ogra> but probably it would break the silence on the ML ...
<jsgotangco> i showed the thing during LinuxWorld over here and people loved it (the look)
<ogra> i'd very much like to see our community wake up
<enyc> btw...
<jsgotangco> i have 2 schools committing to use it already and didnt even react on the artwork, just the functionality
<enyc> if release is tomorrow.....
<enyc> what happens r.e. copying images to  mirrors etc...?
<jsgotangco> they sync eventually when the release is announced
<ogra> its the same process ubuntu uses... we are located on te same servers
* JaneW replied to race mail - sorry ;)
<jsgotangco> 3rd parties can always check the site for mirror instructions
<ogra> since we are "contained" in ubuntu
<enyc> there will be manic download-overlaod tomorrow then ;p
<ogra> JaneW, probably its good to have such thread to get our community awake...
<JaneW> ogra: yes
<jsgotangco> how many subscirbers do we have?
<jsgotangco> 200+?
<ogra> yes, around this
<Yagisan> is there really such as fuss over the wall paper ?
<JaneW> ogra: I am asking chmj if he finds it offensive as well (just to be sure)
<ogra> Yagisan, yes
<jsgotangco> by one email yes
<JaneW> Yagisan: yes, unbelievably
<jsgotangco> its crazy
<ogra> Yagisan, when i work up today, everyone including sabdfl had alrady pinged me
<jsgotangco> first it was termed creepy
<jsgotangco> now racist?
<ogra> *woke
<JaneW> ogra: good freudian slip there
<JaneW> ;)
<ogra> heh
<Yagisan> what on earth for ? It looks fine to me - I'd normally turn it off on a low memory client though
<jsgotangco> yes exactly
<jsgotangco> it can be easily changed
<JaneW> jsgotangco: and it's not even JessicaX^ saying it :)
* Yagisan isn't on the mailing list
<ogra> LOOOL
<jsgotangco> elkner is reacting too much
<ogra> i should have replied "we took it because we listen to our trolls"
<JaneW> LOL
<jsgotangco> even if we change the artwork it'll bork the whole build process for hours
<JaneW> trouble is he reacts straight to sabdfl
<pips1> hi all
<jsgotangco> i can imagine how he reacts during UBZ
<ogra> JaneW, and ? cant we cope with that ? 
<pips1> I see you are still discussing the artwork...
<JaneW> ok release notes
<JaneW> ogra: we can, as evidenced this am ;)
<JaneW> pips1: afraid so
<ogra> pips1, sadly, yes... we'd have better things to do and cant change it anymore anyway
<pips1> i see
<jsgotangco> we'll see how reviewers see it anyways in a few days
<ogra> yup
<pips1> yep
<jsgotangco> we can't be bothered by a few comments
<pips1> I will write a *nasty* review ;-)
<JaneW> Steve's duaghter is gorgeous :))
* JaneW kicks pips1 
<ogra> pips1, do you like it, or dont you like it ? 
<pips1> hihi
<pips1> hmmm I wrote my opinion to the list already
<JaneW> Phillip
<JaneW> ?
<pips1> yep
<ogra> oh, hi phillipp :=
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> hello
<Yagisan> ahh - I found the mail - hmm they need their eyes checked - it's obviously a yellow girl - much like the simpsons are yellow
<pips1> hi oliver
<pips1> lol
<jsgotangco> lol
* pips1 thinks he missed a lot of funny conversations
<ogra> pips1, a good headline for your review "Racistic educational branch of ubuntu found !"
<jsgotangco> well i just sent an email to the local list that the wallpaper was made by a fellow countryman and that is good news for us
<pips1> good one!
<ogra> that will bring a good amunt of attention :)
<pips1> I not so worried about the skin colour of the girl really, but I do think it is a distracting image for a desktop background
<pips1> oops /I/I'm
<Yagisan> heh - its actually more yellow then my little girl - and she's half japanese
<ogra> pips1, it is distracting... but people didnt like the former one it seems and all others are idistracting too or have weird colors that make your eyes hurt... in fact it was the highest rated one we have on art.ubuntu.com...
<jsgotangco> ogra: too late, i've already spammed the local lists and blogs saying that the wallpaper came from a local...heheh
<pips1> yes, I understand all that... hmm
<ogra> and we cant change it back anymore now...
<pips1> well, I kind of sends out the signal THIS IS FOR KIDS!!! :-)
<ogra> there was a short timeframe this morning where i had the opportunity, but sabdfl stepped back agaim
<pips1> I have been guessing that this was happening in a somewhat heated rush... 
<pips1> oh wel
<pips1> l
<pips1> talking about rushing things, I need to improve my irc typing ;-)
<ogra> nope, there was no rush... but not discussing it on the ML was a mistake
<pips1> you are right
<jsgotangco> pips1: the wallpaper has been a communitry contribution for months...
<JaneW> pips1: that';s the POINT
<ogra> but who are we to not learn from our mistakes, i mean, hey, we make a edu distro, give us room to learn :)
<JaneW> it was actually one of the first wall papers we received
<JaneW> ogra: excellent point
<pips1> jsgotangco and JaneW: I know
<jsgotangco> its the wallpaper i used for my demos
<JaneW> ok my kid is just contrary
<pips1> jsgtangco: oh, how did people receive it then?
<JaneW> I called my nearly 6 year old in and he chose mustard over edubuntu girl
* JaneW makes a doctors apoointment ;)
<ogra> lol
<jsgotangco> lol
<JaneW> ok jsgotangco release note are these right? 
<JaneW> The Estate Agents commission for the sale of 100 3rd Ave was: R34 200
<JaneW> incl VAT.
<JaneW> oops not that
<pips1> hey, guys I have clearly missed something, why do you think was sabdfl in favour of the edubuntu girl?
<JaneW> this http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuReleaseCandidate
<ogra> JaneW, wow, thats cheap
<JaneW> ogra heh
<jsgotangco> JaneW: that's the latest that we have and seems stable
* JaneW is trying to work out CGT for tax return (forgotten about and nearly overdue)
<ogra> pips1, because its community contributed...
<pips1> fair enough!
<JaneW> jsgotangco: ok I'll edit so it no longer says candidate
<ogra> pips1, he and mdz totally misunderstood my post about the 10min gimp job
<pips1> ogra: in what way?
<ogra> the thought the girl was this gimp job, not the mustard...
<jsgotangco> JaneW: right, and have ogra pass on it in case there are further changes
<pips1> ogra: and then, huh?
<jsgotangco> mustard was the 10min gimp job
<jsgotangco> they thought it was the face
<jsgotangco> *the first post said it looked creepy*
<ogra> and sabdfl objected strongly to have a 10min gimp job wallpaper that looks "like that" ... after he found out the opposite ws the case, he was fine
<JaneW> jsgotangco: where is ubuntu's announcement for tomorrow- just to compare
<ogra> being community contributed beautified it it seems ;)
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes -> is the ubuntu release notes
<pips1> yes i understood that mustard was the 10 min job, but what made sabdfl + mdz's choose the edubuntu girl because of that misunderstanding?!
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DraftBreezyAnnouncement -> is the draft 5.10 release annoucement
<ogra> pips1, the question was if i should revert it and risk another some hour lasting build of all isos or not...
<pips1> ah ok
<ogra> and we have no other artwork than mustard and the stuff on art.ubuntu.com ...
<JaneW> ogra: do we have these completed? Install CD for the PC (Intel x86), 64-bit PC (AMD64) and PowerPC (Apple iBook and Powerbook, G4 and G5) architectures
<JaneW> jsgotangco: many thanks
<ogra> making a sane decision would have involved to discuss it again which takes time
<jsgotangco> the build would be a big issue
<ogra> JaneW, absolutrely...
<JaneW> cool
<ogra> JaneW, with my latest changes we have even more than 20MB space... if i could upload *now* i could add all artwork to the package :/
<JaneW> cool - but too late ;/
<ogra> yup
<jsgotangco> crazy day for sure
<JaneW> jsgotangco: the announcement needs to be e-mail friendly no? '''[http://www.ubuntu.com Ubuntu] ''' wont work
<jsgotangco> ?
<ogra> oh, the space comes from dropping gcompris from ppc, we should note that too... i couldnt find anything to compensate a 50MB package ...
<jsgotangco> let me check
<jsgotangco> ah so evil gcompris left the ppc
<ogra> but it not an issue... since mdz and sabdfl belive we wont have ppc users (i doubt that though)
<jsgotangco> ppc clients perhaps
<ogra> yup
<pips1> to be honest: this episode is quite ironic: the sabdfl makes decision without prior discussion (on the list) and his decision is fuelled by "but it [the artwork]  is community involvement" ;-)
<JaneW> ogra: is this true with 5.10, mdz thought not "The aim is that an educator with
<JaneW> > limited technical knowledge and skill will be able to set up a computer
<JaneW> > lab, or establish an on-line learning environment, in an hour or less,
<JaneW> > and then administrate that environment without having to become a
<JaneW> > fully-fledged Linux geek."
<ogra> if it would have been easy doable, i'd have dropped all server apps from ppc... but that would have required heavy changes to the installer and Kamion was overworked already
<jsgotangco> JaneW: the link works
<JaneW> jsgotangco: but surely not if cut into an e-mail?
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<ogra> JaneW, yes, with using the documents that is achievable
<jsgotangco> just move the Moin tags
<jsgotangco> s/move/remove
* JaneW is doing that
<Yagisan> I'm sure there will be powerpc users - do know how many schools have old macs lying around
<JaneW> erk but do we want to keep a wiki version too?
<JaneW> maybe I shouldn;t remove them till I cut and paste in an e-mail
<ogra> Yagisan, if you install from DVD it will be contained... or you can install it afterwards... there was just no way to make it fit on a CD 
<Yagisan> ogra: I meant powerpc users in general (I'm a bit lagged here)
<ogra> we have a CD for them... just not with 50MB gcompris :)
<Yagisan> qemu doesn't want to cooperate with me :( 
<Yagisan> it makes it difficult to make my multi-arch work :(
<jsgotangco> ok im going to sleep
<jsgotangco> night all
<JaneW> ogra: some nice friendly mails from Matt just in
<jsgotangco> oohh
<JaneW> does anyone have time to change links in our wiki to point to wiki.edubuntu... instead of www.edubuntu ???
<ogra> JaneW, sigh... i dont want to delay... not for a wallpaper change... except we can get cliff to create something for us
<JaneW> ogra: sorry but please give me the link to your install notes again
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallNotes
<JaneW> ta
<hno73> Hello! We are now planning to migrate the wiki, so there will be some down time
<JaneW> please could we have proof readers for http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuReleaseCandidate
<ogra> sigh...
<ogra> InstallNotes was editied...
<JaneW> ogra: please could you also prrof and add/remove from the features list as required
<ogra> first let me fix the install notes
<JaneW> edited a lot?
<ogra> why cant people put comments at the bottom instead of the middle of the text
<JaneW> yup
<JaneW> ogra we need to synchronize changes to the release notes and the announcement
<JaneW> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuReleaseNotes
<JaneW> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuReleaseCandidate <- announcement
<hno73> JaneW, ogra: I see that you are both actively using the wiki now
<JaneW> yup
<hno73> just be aware that it will go down soonish, for about 15 min
<JaneW> I'll need to stop soon though
<JaneW> kids need attention
<JaneW> ogra will you take a look at them when you have a mo?
<JaneW> I'll look again later, but it will need to be after 9pm
<ogra> hno73, jus go ahead, i got both pages open here and wont edit bfore its up again
<hno73> I would suggest you save edits to gedit locally in that period so you dont lose work
<JaneW> hno73: go ahead, good luck and thanks :)
<JaneW> I have closed all edits now
<hno73> ogra: it wont come up again in the same place though :)
<ogra> hno73, doesnt matter :)
<hno73> same URL, but different wiki
<hno73> ok :)
<ogra> whoops, there its gone :)
<JaneW> heh
<hno73> here we go ...
* JaneW holds breath
<ogra> JaneW, hmm, why is the complete feature list added again to ReleaseNotes ? i wiped it yesterday
<JaneW> ogra: dunno
<JaneW> ogra: sholdn;t it be there?
<JaneW> jsgotangco prolly added it..?
<ogra> i'm pressty fine with EdubuntuReleaseCandidate 
<JaneW> cool :)
<ogra> pretty too :)
<ogra> but it differs from EdubuntuReleaseNotes
<ogra> i like the first one more
<JaneW> edit away!
* JaneW must go for a bit
<JaneW> ciao
<mhz_daughter> hno73: hi
<hno73> mhz_daughter: hello!
<mhz_daughter> anychance we can have ACL enabled for EditorGroup or alike? 
<mhz_daughter> so we can use FreezeTemplate on some "master" documentation?
<mhz_daughter> or EdubuntuEditorGroup
<hno73> we are just now moving the wiki ...
<hno73> pages are now up on wiki.u.c
<mhz_daughter> okidoki
<mhz_daughter> and possibly later? basically, the idea is to start cleaning "a little" the jungle
<mhz_daughter> and help jerome tasks, as wll
<mhz_daughter> well
<ogra> hno73, ouch, you just copied them ? 
<ogra> thats a bit weird...
<mhz_daughter> ogra: not in Moin
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallNotes 
<ogra> it is...
<ogra> we need to rename all pages ten
<ogra> then
<mhz_daughter> well, linking is an issue
<ogra> not the linking... but if i open the above url i wouldnt expect a edubuntu install note :/ we have to change announcement etc...
<hno73> ogra: yes that way you preserve edit history and attachments
<hno73> you might want to rename some of them afterwards
<ogra> hno73, i thought we'll get our own namespace 
<mhz_daughter> so, hno73 is it gonna be /data (merged) or /data (unmerged) with InterWiki features
<mhz_daughter> ?
<hno73> ogra: you will. phase 2 ...
<ogra> thats a bit odd... i understood it different
<ogra> sigh, ok...
<ogra> are you sure you didnt overwrite things like the ReleaseAnnouncement for ubuntu we have some pages with similar/the same names
<hno73> yes, I cleaned it all out 
<hno73> renaming where needed
<ogra> ok
<mhz_daughter> oh, so it'll be /data 'merged' not InterWiki
<JaneW> ogra: one point there's no known issues list in our release notes... neede to fix that
<ogra> i'll add them to the install notes rather...
<hno73> We now have a new front page and a new wiki skin on wiki.edubuntu.org I'm not sure this is exactly how you guys wanted it done, but hopefully it's progress. I can spend some time restructuring the Edubuntu pages in the wiki if you want, with a main page and a Table of Contents and stuff, so things will be easier to find.
<hno73> One nice thing is that the edubuntu wiki skin is much cooler than the ubuntu one now, so I for one always browse with that set as my default :)
<ogra> hno73, oh, you didnt say step 1 and 2 would both happen today :)
<hno73> sprea the word
<ogra> yeah
<hno73> oh, sorry
<hno73> Is it causing problems for you?
<ogra> so im fine now, awesome wrk, we owe you one or two...
<ogra> i'm as happy as i can be :)
<hno73> ok, weel just let me know if anything needs tweaking
<hno73> :)
<ogra> hmm, i have to select the css for ubuntu too ? 
<ogra> i see the same css on both wikis
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/FrontPage?action=show&redirect=StartSeite
<ogra> oh
<ogra> now i'm on the launchpad wiki
<ogra> hno73, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ reliably redirects me to the launchpad wiki
<hno73> yes, confirmed (!?) investigating ...
<ogra> it only happens with https
<hno73> I guess we need to add a line to the apache conf
<ogra> but since ubuntu redirects me automatically from http to https, its common to edit the url to go to wiki.edubuntu.org...
* jono is also known as highvoltage
<jono> hno73: nice work on the web pages / wiki. i'm connected via gprs now, so i can't see images, etc. i see you've renamed the other page to index-future.html
<jono> can everyone who is present state so, I want to put up the F.A.Q.
<hno73> ah, index-future should be deleted
<jono> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFAQ
<jono> hno73: i can't see atm, do you have the menu's, etc on top?
<jono> which quesstions should we have on the F.A.Q? And what is the questions we've been asked most so far?
<hno73> where, front page or wiki?
<hno73> (both have icons)
<jono> ok, cool.
<jono> hno73: thanks a billion gazillion, btw.
<jono> hno73: i was real stressed out about the site, and just didn't get to it.
<hno73> though you might need to change your skin in the wiki to see it
<hno73> np :)
<hno73> happens. I'll ask you for some help another time :)
<jono> now that you mention it, i do. i had it changed on the ubuntu wiki previously.
<jono> hno73: :)
<hno73> Once I saw what needed to be done I just pushed it forward. I might have been a bit thin on communication though (sorry for any surprises folks :) )
<jono> hno73: i probably said it before, but i have lots of respect for you for the work you have done in the free software community. being able to communicate with people like you and ogra on a regular basis is a real privilage
<jono> hno73: no problem, whatever gets the job done :)
<hno73> feel the ubuntu flow :)
<jono> hno73: the news link on the site, can we point it to something like http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuNews/20051012 on the wiki, and then manage the news through the wiki?
<jono> the /EdubuntuNews page can contain the news archives.
<jono> and-
<jono> can you lock down that page so that only privilages users can edit it?
<hno73> I don't actually have edit rights on the front page (orcadas) do you?
<hno73> Sounds sensible
<jono> let me check, i'm vi'ing the file now.
<hno73> yes, we can limit edit rights
<hno73> I've had to mail changes to Karl so far
<jono> yes, i can write to index.html on orcadas
<hno73> But if you can edit it, please do
<jono> ok, editing now..
<hno73> ok, I'll step back from that then :)
<jono> step back? byt why!?
<hno73> I'll let you tweak and expand the front page as needed
<jono> ok. i'm sure elmo can tweak the groups and permissions to give you access to :)
<hno73> it still needs a few tweaks, like IE-friendly images and a red footer
<jono> we'll do that more long-term.
<jono> ooooh, IE friendlyness.
<jono> what's the problem in IE atm? transparency?
<hno73> Anyway, if I really feel like tweaking it I'll send files to you
<hno73> yes, just needs a red background
<hno73> no big deal
<hno73> was on the bottom of my todo list :)
<jono> ok
<jono> Jeromee, JaneW, mwest, guim, ajmitch_: ping
* hno73 also notices that the skin breaks on sub-pages like http://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs :-(  
<jono> example pages:
<jono> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuNews
<hno73> investigating ...
<jono> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuNews/20051012
<jono> any ideas on layout?
<jono> hmmm.. i'll have to check when i have images again
<hno73> why do you need sub pages for different days (appart from the fact that currently breaks the theme ...)
<hno73> actually, I guess it makes good sense :)
<ogra> shoudnt the news be on the website like for ubuntu ?
<jono> oh yes, it breaks themes. :(
<jono> ogra: www.edubuntu.org
<ogra> yes
<jono> ogra: the news highlights go onto the site
<jono> and then the stories are on the wiki
<jono> the news section will be locked down so that only edubuntites (for lack of better word) can edit it
<ogra> edubuntians :)
<jono> ogra: what is the problem with the news being on the wiki?
<jono> ogra: nice word
<hno73> though I need to look into that
<jono> hno73: is the theme fixable for sub-pages?
<ogra> jono, if its locked down its ok....
<hno73> we don't have any pages locked ATM
<jono> hno73: or is it a limitation we need to work around?
<hno73> it may even be a policy issue
<jono> hno73: really? for news pages as well?
<hno73> wanting to keep it open
<jono> hno73: ok, we can start a wiki-watchers-subgroup that monitor changes and make sure that no one abuses it (adding spam, etc)
<ogra> news shouldnt be world editable...
<hno73> well, we haven't put news in the wiki before ...
<jono> hmmm :/
<ogra> yes, thats why i was asking
<hno73> perhaps you can just put it on the site for now?
<jono> if we can't lock it down, we should move it out of the wiki.
<jono> ok.
<hno73> use the current main page as a template ...
<ogra> note that even ubuntu only has new news all few months, it wont be edited often
<hno73> right
<jono> ok, people can then send news to me or other web editors, and it can be added manually. not a problem.
<ogra> yes, thats how we do it in ubuntu too
<jono> ok. i thought it was part of the plone setup.
<ogra> oh, is it intentional that the startpage shows the ubuntu content ? 
<hno73> we should set up a new Edubuntu welcome page and point directly into that
<ogra> #yup
<hno73> not intentional as in thought through
<ogra> its not identical with the FontPage
<ogra> but it shows all ubuntu content
<hno73> I don't think 'Welcome' got moved, but I have a copy
<hno73> it sshould be http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu really
<hno73> I can rename that to http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSpec and them place the old 'Welcome'page there
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu is a BOF spec from ubuntu
<hno73> right, but should be renamed EdubuntuBOF or something
<ogra> yes
<hno73> so we can use http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu
<ogra> and should be a subpage of UDU
<ogra> or CategoryBOF or something like that
<hno73> right
<hno73> these name conflics are inevitable when merging wikis I'm afraid
<ogra> yup
<ogra> hno73, is there a way for easy renaming ? 
<ogra> probably without loosing the page history ? 
<hno73> I think renaming preserves history
<hno73> ogra: checking ...
<ogra> hmm, i must admit i have no idea how to rename a page 
<ogra> hah, blind me
<hno73> oh, sorry. more actions dropdown
<hno73> :)
<ogra> ok, renamed
<ogra> took ages... its very slow
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Community
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i dont think this merging stuff works well...
<jono23> agh! i loose my connection when I receive an sms.
<hno73> ogra: was saving pages much faster when the edubuntu wiki was by itself? 
<ogra> yes, a lot
<ogra> 10x or more
<hno73> The slowness of saving pages has been an issue for a while now
<hno73> interesting
<hno73> but you have been using the main wiki too right?
<ogra> it takes more than a minute, my browser sits there saying "waiting for ...."
<hno73> which has been slow for a while
<ogra> yes, it was always slow
<ogra> but it got worse over time
<ogra> noticeable
<hno73> but the two wikis have always been on the same machine, running the same MoinMoin code
<hno73> so it must be the number of files that does it
<hno73> in a particular wiki tree
<ogra> seems like, yes
<hno73> Anyway, that's useful information. I'll look into that more
<ogra> hmm, but the naming issue is bothering me a bit...
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Community has the same content as http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Community so we force ourselves into prefixing all over the place
<jono23> ah, i got it saved: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFAQ
<jono23> is the release info acurate?
<ogra> not yet.. i'll do it tonight
<ogra> i need to merge info from the several release notes pages we have
<Trackilizer> I just wanted to ask, what's this distro about?
<Trackilizer> I can't seem to be able to find screenshots.
<crimsun> it's described on the front page of www.edubuntu.org
<crimsun> click on FAQ if you wish to know more
<ogra> could someone check for typos ? and if i missed a known issue we talked about in the meeting, please point it out ... http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<pips1> ogra: I just quickly read throught InstallNotes, no typos 
<ajmitch_> hi
<pips1> The wording could be slightly more elegant, but I think it's all understandable. :-)
<pips1> ajmitch_: hi
<pips1> BTW, the website skin is looking good, I really like those gartoon icons :-)
<pips1> ogra: I just quickly read throught InstallNotes, no typos 
<ogra> thanks :)
<ogra> yeah... looks like our final CD is up...
<pips1> really?!
<pips1> hohoho! congratulations, sr:!
<pips1> :-)
* pips1 is going looking
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<ogra> this will be the final...
<ogra> no further builds planned, no content changes possible
<pips1> 12-Oct-2005 20:35 
<pips1> those ones...
<pips1> ?
<ogra> yup... (note that UTC times its 15 min old) 
<ogra> *thats
<pips1> how does it feel?
<ogra> hmm... 
<pips1> I read even your fellow MOTUs are telling you to get more sleep! ;-)
<ogra> i'm tempted to be happy... but its not really what i wanted... so my feelings are a bit ambivalent
<ogra> heh, yes, i wont leave the bed over the weekend i guess
<pips1> :-D
<pips1> hey, what is bugging you then? the "known issues"?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> there are to many ...
<pips1> i mean, the stuff that is not 100% working (LTSP glitches, etc.)?
<ogra> but whats buggin me more are the unknown ones ;)
<pips1> mpffft
<ogra> yes... i wnated a shiny slick release with no manual work required.... 
<ogra> and all the tools you need for administration etc...
<pips1> this is my first time witnessing a distribution release being done (ubuntu, more than edubuntu)... and I am amazing by the whole process!
<ogra> yup, its very exciting :)
<pips1> yes, it got my excited enough, and I wasn't even coding, fixing stuff, ...!
<pips1> just submitting stuff to bugzilla and testing... 
<ogra> thats a good contribution :)
<pips1> thanks
<pips1> ogra, I need to continue with other pressing stuff right now... (schooltool related)
<pips1> cu l8r ! :-)
<ogra> bye, thanks for helping and have fun :)
<pips1> my pleasure!
<pips1> edubuntu 1 might be a "warty" rather than a "breezy" but hey, it's the very first release, don't kill yourself over all those things that didn't quite make it 
<pips1> I'm already impressed by all the edu apps and I like the edubuntu desktop icons so much, I'll get them for my ubuntu laptop too :-)
<ogra> heh :)
<jinty> hey ogra, congrats, hope all goes smoothly
<ogra> me too... just downloading the last image...
<ogra> and tomorrow the DVD
<jinty> cool, also, in future, let me know about any issues with schooltool
<jeang> hi all - quick question, have a pc running 5.10.  can i dist upgrade to edubuntu next week?
<jeang> or am i looking at a fresh install>
<ogra> jinty, i'll do :)
<ogra> jeang, just install edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-server and you have a edubutu install ;)
<jeang> ogra - thanks
<ogra> jeang, the archive is locked since 24h for non universe uploads, what you get is the final release now... 
<ogra> (if you only want a desktop, dont install -server indeed ;) )
<jeang> ogra - cool.. see a busy weekend ahead!
<ogra> heh :)
#edubuntu 2005-10-18
<martinhj> how is it with sharing of memory between the same applications with different users - like five instances of epiphany on five different terminals running at the same time - will they share some of the memory on the terminal server?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> thats not dependent to the terminal server...
<martinhj> oh?
<ogra> its a feature of linux... and multiuser systems in genereal...
<martinhj> ok, that's good
<ogra> the terminal server only gives you the access... for computing you have the kernel :)
<martinhj> yeah, of course:-)
<martinhj> but how efficient is it?
<martinhj> if, say, epiphany uses about 11MB RAM for one user and 12MB for another (counting the shared memory for both)- how much of that memory is shared (if it's possible to measure like that)
<ogra> i guess you can measure it but i never did myself :) look for documentation about kernel profiling
<martinhj> ok, thank you for your time.. think this part of muliuser systems are interesting:-)
<ogra> yes, me too :) 
<martinhj> seen the new userful system?
<martinhj> seems interesting
<ogra> yes, i hope they once consider open sourcing their stuff...
<martinhj> yeah, I saw they didn't
<martinhj> but couldn't be that much?
<martinhj> much code I mean
<ogra> no idea, i had not much time to look close at such things the last weeks... prerelease is always eating time :)
<martinhj> but I didn't know that multiseat in X had become stable yet
<martinhj> prerelease fo edubuntu, or both edub. and ubuntu?
<ogra> i'm mainly doing edubuntu, but have to fix ubuntu bugs too...
<ogra> we ship multiseat since hoary ;)
<martinhj> oh, I didn't know:-)
<martinhj> i can see there is a system for user-specific devices in multiseat
<martinhj> is it something like that in edubuntu to?
<ogra> i dont know, i never worked with multiseat ...
<ogra> but you can ask me everything about ubuntus ltsp ;)
<martinhj> ogra: I thought if user-specific devices works with ltsp.. and how...
<ogra> not yet... there are several approaches, but no right solution imho
<martinhj> is this something we will see in the future?
<ogra> its on my list for dapper... highest priority
<ogra> audio device access and local device access (cameras, usb drives etc)
<martinhj> yes.. would be nice
<thelusiv> will edubuntu be released at the same time as ubuntu breezy?
<crimsun> yes.
<thelusiv> cool :) i just learned about the project today...i've been looking for a good education-oriented os for my son
<thelusiv> and i like ubuntu already...
<crimsun> excellent
<thelusiv> i'm a developer too, so i would like to help the project somehow
<thelusiv> i'm going to download the release when it's up, but in the mean time how is the project different from regular ubuntu?
<ogra> thelusiv, it has some added educational software, another artwork, it includes ltsp in the default install and schooltool, a nice school scheduling app...
<ogra> thelusiv, this is what we'll release tomorrow: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20051012.2/ just doing the last test install here
<thelusiv> cool, thanks
<thelusiv> so what kind of educational software? i'm guessing gcompris, childsplay, tuxpaint, and the like?
<ogra> thelusiv, als worth a read: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallNotes
<ogra> yup... not chidlsplay...the space on one iso is to small for chidlsplay *and* gcompris and a distro :)
<thelusiv> ah hehe
<thelusiv> yeah my son's been using gcompris mostly anyway...
<ogra> but most of the kdeedu suite is there too...
<ogra> and you can easily install childsplay, its just not there by default :)
<thelusiv> yeah i figured
<thelusiv> so is it kde-based
<ogra> nope
<ogra> KDE and gnome integrate quite well nowadays
<thelusiv> ok
<thelusiv> has ktouch come along any?
<thelusiv> the version i have installed for ubuntu hoary has some problems
<thelusiv> like it won't keep track of your progress
<ogra> it works fine here, tested 2 mins ago :)
<thelusiv> cool
<thelusiv> well i'll definitely give it a spin, and then try to find some way to get involved :)
<ogra> just ping me in some days... (i'm pretty exhausted after building the release will need a 2 day nap )
<thelusiv> hehe, ok
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> every helping hand is welcome here :)
<highvoltage> ok, so who else is awake :)
* ogra slowly raises a hand
<crimsun> I am so going to sleep tomorrow
<ogra> hehe, me too
<ogra> but first i have to redo my CD :(
<ogra> its scratched... 
<highvoltage> :(
<highvoltage> ogra: how long have you been awake?
<ogra> 25 or 30h no idea...
<ogra> if i count them i get more tired .... sheep, you know :)
<highvoltage> hehe
* ajmitch_ hands ogra some more coffee
* highvoltage has a cup with 4 teaspoons of milo and another 4 hot chocolate :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: morning
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> doing an all-nighter?
<highvoltage> no, that's ogra ;)
<jsgotangco> mmm the wiki is merged already
<highvoltage> i went to bed at 10 and got up at 3, so i at least had 5 hours of sleep, ogra only slept 30 mins!
<highvoltage> yep.
<jsgotangco> errr where are the wiki entries?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: which ones, specifically? i can see them.
<jsgotangco> well going to wiki.edubuntu.org gives me the ubuntu wiki i want to see our old wiki frontpage
<highvoltage> oh yes, the edubuntu wiki is at /EdubuntuWiki
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<highvoltage> the main page has just been fixed to link to /EdubuntuWiki instead
<jsgotangco> i see henrik's page instead of the old frontpage
<jsgotangco> its in /Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> there's still some pages that need fixing
<ogra> i find the merge quite odd
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Community
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Community
<ogra> we'll have to prefix everything now...
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> more fun =)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> oh, and editing subpages with the css bug is *very* hard... you only have a 10 char wide input fied
<highvoltage> /name/names
<ogra> yes
<ogra> try to edit such a page :) 
* highvoltage scratches head
<highvoltage> "/name/names" was an accident, but i'm sure you're just joking ;)
<ogra> noe
<ogra> try editing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs while you have the edubuntu theme enabled
<highvoltage> oh yes, the css breaks on sub-pages. hno73 knows about it, i think he looked into it last night (our time)
<ogra> yup
<highvoltage> peh!! i can edit files in the edubuntu docroot, but can't create new files
<highvoltage> but i can in ./images, so i'll but news there temporarily
<highvoltage> ogra: do you know of someone who has root access on orcadas that I could bother quickly?
<ogra> i dont even know what orcadas is
<ogra> bt elmo is still awake i guess
<highvoltage> i /msg'd him
* P3L|C4N0 brb
<highvoltage> elmo++
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> anyone good with enrish please check for grammar? http://www.edubuntu.org/news.html
<highvoltage> (and other typos/spelling mistakes, etc)
<crimsun> sure, sec
<jsgotangco> that's the wrong wallpaper
<jsgotangco> edubuntu girl is the default wallpaper
<jsgotangco> =)
<highvoltage> is it!?
<highvoltage> yippeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!
<highvoltage> ok, i'll change it, have to download edubuntu girl again
<highvoltage> hmm... that sounded weird.
<highvoltage> geez, then i'll have to do some screenshots over again.
<jsgotangco> i guess you haven't been reading the list
<crimsun> hmm, it would probably be snazzier to say "Edubuntu makes its debut!". You also need a comma after "The Breezy Badger". It may sound better to say "...and other quality software that you will also find in Ubuntu."
<crimsun> Try using "...only one day before the first release"
<crimsun> Don't need the comma after "...tightly integrates with the Edubuntu wiki"
<crimsun> and of course "mailing list", not "mailinsg list"
<crimsun> (other than that, it's better to use "Web site" and not "website", but that's your call)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i am behind on the list :(
<highvoltage> crimsun: thanks, i will apply changes in about 5 mins, i'm nutral on Web site vs website.
<crimsun> np
<highvoltage> we have some screenshots up now: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuScreenShots
* highvoltage edits news in meantime
<mhz> moin all here
<highvoltage> the screenshots still needs links to bigger versions, and i need new screenshots with our favourite edubuntu girl
<highvoltage> hi mhz 
<mhz> heyp
<mhz> sorry, High
<mhz> :)
<highvoltage> mhz: np, P = I.V
<highvoltage> or something like that :)
<mhz> there's a problem with permissions, I guess, on one of the merged pages
<mhz> it is EdubuntuNews/20051012
<mhz> it looks like hell
<ogra> mhz, all subpages are broken
<mhz> not all? all as in 'all'???
<ogra> everything that has a extra / in its path
<mhz> but it's strange broken. broken should not show an existing page, should it?
<ogra> no idea, you are the wiki specialist :)
<mhz> mmmmhhhh, unless they are rendered form cache
<mhz> (server cache)
<mhz> arkan0x: ping
<highvoltage> crimsun: sure we don't need a comma after "integrates with the Edubuntu wiki"? i think its good there.
<highvoltage> mhz: we're going to delet EdubuntuNews/20051012
<crimsun> you can leave it, highvoltage 
<mhz> ok
<highvoltage> it's being replaced with http://www.edubuntu.org/news.html
<highvoltage> and that will be changing to (or at least, it's busy changing as we speak)
<mhz> highvoltage: any chance wiki admin can install SlideShow plugin?
<mhz> it is really cool, esp. when showing off the potential of moin content :)
<highvoltage> crimsun: i changed it to "web site", i can't justify using a capital letter there :)
<mhz> capital? you mean CamelCase?
<highvoltage> no, as in "website" vs "Web site" vs "web site"
<highvoltage> 05:15 < crimsun> (other than that, it's better to use "Web site" and not
<highvoltage>                  "website", but that's your call)
<mhz> ooohhh, duh!
<highvoltage> refering to the news page.
<highvoltage> :)
<mhz> ok, that happens to me for breaking up into conversations :D
<highvoltage> it's entirely possible that I'm not making sense either, it's stil 5:40am here :)
* mhz gets back to reading wiki pages and see when it is good to make them KISS
<mhz> lol
<highvoltage> mhz: i think you probably know about the edubuntu wiki and ubuntu wiki has merged
<mhz> yep
<highvoltage> mhz: it propably wouldn't be too difficult to convince the admin to have it installed
<mhz> educool!
<highvoltage> i think we should get that done after we've got the most basic things working.
<highvoltage> in other words, it's a bit lower priority right now ;)
<highvoltage> but keep that thought, i think it's a good ide.a
<mhz> We, in Tecnocimiento, always use it. It's very handy and reduces double work
<highvoltage> anyone have a screenshot of the desktop with edubuntu girl for me?
<mhz> are you being mean? or serious?
<highvoltage> and if possible, the shots with these menus: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuScreenShots
<highvoltage> the top two
<ogra> highvoltage, i can make one, yust wait until the install finished
<highvoltage> mhz: about the slideshow plugin? serious, how could you take that as being mean!
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks
<mhz> highvoltage: I meant about the 'girl' screenshot
<mhz> :)
<mhz> but i realize it is part of the general work
* mhz backs to reading
<ogra> highvoltage, oh, damned i have a german install running here
<highvoltage> mhz: no, i'm always serious about edubuntu girl, i would never, ever joke about her.
<highvoltage> ogra: send it, i can't see a problem with it.
<highvoltage> at least people will see that it has multi-language support ;)
<ogra> it will take a bit more then... since  need to do all tests before i change something
<highvoltage> ok, np.
<mhz> highvoltage: you seem to have a bit of latin DNA in your blood... you just have that ironic-sneaky sense of humour
<ogra> you also need a normal one for the webpage, right ?
<highvoltage> mhz: mhuhahahahahaha
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, i think.
<ogra> oki
<highvoltage> what would an ubuntu user use to burn .iso images in Ubuntu?
<highvoltage> i use cdrecord, but it's not something i want to suggest on the wiki.
<ogra> you right click the iso file and select "burn to disc"
<highvoltage> cool.
<mhz> ogra: I almost forgot it... the install I am using to train Tecnocimiento gang did not work well at the end because of a 'Trident' video card (too old?) However, one of the hardware guys managed to make it work ok. Nevertheless, clients boot up and get to LDM but we could not make them start a session. After password, they always got back to LDM
<ogra> highvoltage, but a ubuntu user would be silly to make an iso...
<ogra> mhz, ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
<mhz> hmmm, we didn't try it, boooh
<ogra> highvoltage, you waste a lot less bandwith if you just dist upgrade and install edubuntu on top
<mhz> ok, we'll do first thing tomorrow (meaning 3 PM, almost)
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm not sure i understand you
<ogra> ping me, if i'm awake (very unlikely) i might be able to help :)
<ogra> highvoltage, <highvoltage> what would an ubuntu user use to burn .iso images in Ubuntu?
<mhz> ogra: so a guy like me could do: server install -> xubuntu-desktop -> edubuntu-server ? and that will not provide GNOME?
<ogra> i thought you referred to a edubuntu iso
<highvoltage> ogra: i just needed to put it here: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/DownloadEdubuntu
<highvoltage> i think we'll need to clean up that bottom part,
<highvoltage> and eventually add some screenshots just to make it look cool.
<highvoltage> crap.
<ogra> hm, kay...
<highvoltage> where can I find the edubuntu community page?
<highvoltage> does it still exist somewhere?
<mhz> yes
<ogra> but if you are already running ubuntu there is no need to download an iso :)
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Community
<ogra> highvoltage, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Community
<ogra> i think you need to make that EdubuntuCommunity
<mhz> yes
<ogra> else you'll confuse ubuntu...
<highvoltage> ok, thanks.
<highvoltage> yes, it confused me too :)
<ogra> it confuses me all day already... i really think merging the wikis wasnt right
<ogra> especially since the css doesnt change dynamically...
<mhz> I would have 2nd thoughts, but maybe I would have opted for usign InterWiki feature instead
<highvoltage> i think it was just a bad time to merge wiki's
<jsgotangco> (it wasn't right really)
<mhz> lol
<jsgotangco> (edubuntu has its own audience)
<mhz> but maybe, just maybe, it was never right to hav diff /data dirs
<ogra> the merge would be fine if it would actually work right...
<mhz> jsgotangco: i agree on the diff audience but take wikipedia for exapmple. Imagine diff /data dirs for diff audiences?
<jsgotangco> well true
<ogra> my concern with it is that i have the same css everywhere, i can not visually see in which wiki i am currently...
<mhz> I believe the 'idea' of merging is that we all get quickly to related data and metadata
<ogra> also the contents totally mix up and the ubuntu wiki is a mess in many places...
<mhz> ogra: i see.
<ogra> and my biggest coincern is ITS SOOOO SLOOOOW you can hardly use it
<mhz> ogra: regarding css/ maybe a good idea could be to start using UbuntuTemplate, KubuntuTemplate, EdubuntuTemplate, etc. Templates can contain <html>
<ogra> i had moments today where i waited 2mins for a preview to appear
<jsgotangco> mhz, the ubuntu wiki is a mess really
<highvoltage> ogra: i agree with you on the css part, i would have also liked to know in which wiki i was, or at least, know if something was edubuntu specific or not
<jsgotangco> HomepageCategory won't work here for sure navigation-wise
<ogra> highvoltage, it works fine if you are logged out
<mhz> lol
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> do we need a longer explanation here: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Community
<jsgotangco> lunch brb
<mhz> jsgotangco: mess? yes! can be improved? yes, too! How soon? no idea! but we definately have to figure out
<jsgotangco> mhz, it has been a mess since last year :P
<mhz> ooooh
<ogra> highvoltage, wh didnt you just rename it ?
<jsgotangco> Moin -> zwiki -> Moin
<highvoltage> ogra: what would be the difference?
<ogra> mhz, it gets messed up every day, i doubt anyone could cope with that
<highvoltage> i'm not too familiar with moin, and i think there should be a /Community page that links to UbuntuCommunity, EdubuntuCommunity and KubuntuCommunity.
<highvoltage> or should it?
<highvoltage> i don't know. ignore me.
<ogra> highvoltage, you wouldnt have a useless Community page in the ubuntu wiki ;)
<mhz> mmmhhhh, we could, i know but it takes 'guts', much of it!
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, i was thinking of keeping it there just in case we have links to it
<highvoltage> from within the wiki the bar at the top links to /Community
<ogra> highvoltage, yes, that needs fixing
<mhz> highvoltage: or you can use #redirect NameOfNewPage
<highvoltage> my word, is it my imagination, or is our site/wiki actually coming together in some way.
<ogra> mhz, that would still redirect all ubuntu users
<highvoltage> mhz: ah, ok. i'll do that. ooh, ok. perhaps not.
<mhz> lol
<mhz> lol
<mhz> lol
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> i think it's good like it is, if someone doesn't, change it.
<ogra> highvoltage, its a wiki !
<mhz> can it be immutable, then?
<ogra> everybody changes everything everyday
<highvoltage> yes! it makes deligation so easy!
<mhz> highvoltage: ogra: jsgotangco: i see you r points, but please see what wikipedia does to "effectively" solve this same issues and have everything lot better organized
<mhz> ogra: we can still apply ACL
<ogra> mhz, we wont use php anywhere on a official server
<highvoltage> mhz: i use mediawiki much more than moin ;)
<mhz> highvoltage: we could still apply SomeGroups, OtherGroups, etc. and each group be responsible for the content
<mhz> ogra: I am not talking about php, nor mediawki ( highvoltage ), i mean "organization"
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, lets keep the groupnames as vague as possible, I propose we use the groupnames "SomeGroups", "OtherGroups", "MoreGroups", "UselessGroups", "WatcherGroups".
<mhz> hehehe, for instance, yes. As long as they commit to be responsible for their content
<mhz> cleaning, reversing, editng, deleting, etc
<highvoltage> mhz: ok, i'm not responsible for the wiki though, could you make a list of things we would like to see changing on the wiki?
<highvoltage> (preferably, ON the wiki? ;) )
<mhz> seriusly/
<highvoltage> yes, seriously. things tend to go forgotten if it's mentioned on irc.
<mhz> highvoltage: do you mean it? can we suggest such changes?
<highvoltage> we can suggest whatever we want.
<highvoltage> the worst they can do is say no.
<mhz> or not accept submitions !
<mhz> hihihi
<highvoltage> we could even suggest that they put a picture of david hasselhoff on each page, it doesn't mean it's going to happen ;)
<mhz> lol
<mhz> you latin DNA!!
<highvoltage> if i knew a latin word, i would have said it right about...
<highvoltage> here.
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> ok, so let's make room for oliver to crash a little
<mhz> I'll get back to reading wiki
<highvoltage> oh yes, my ubuntu had two kernel panics last night, each time while receiving an sms while on gprs. how weird is that?
<mhz> terribly weired
<mhz> highvoltage: ping if you need company or share ideas
* mhz reading
<highvoltage> Sona si Latine loqueris.
<highvoltage> mhz: ok
<mhz> wth?
<mhz> sona si latine loqueris?
<highvoltage> "Honk if you speak Latin"
<mhz> lol!!!!!1
<highvoltage> http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/d/r/dryfoo/www/Funny-pages/handy-latin.html
<highvoltage> this is very funny: http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/consortium/moremottoes4.html
* highvoltage gets more hot chocolate / milo, and then back to work.
<highvoltage> and then back to real work.
<mhz> highvoltage: just to have things cristal here... from now on ALL wikis will be at wiki.ubuntu.org/ ?
<ogra> yay, finally... x86 is ready for release
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, at least the udu, edubuntu and ubuntu wikis
<highvoltage> mhz: you can also access it from wiki.edubuntu.org, which we'll use for all official edubuntu links
<highvoltage> ogra: yippeee!
<ogra> now to find amd64 and ppc testers we cant release without tests :/
<highvoltage> ogra: congratulations, and good work.
<ogra> highvoltage, that lies still far ahead.. i need the missing tests done first, but i dont have the HW here
<mhz> ogra: what can we say? No cheer, no thanks would do you justice for all the effort you've made. Thank you very much
<highvoltage> sabdfl should buy you an amd64 and ppc laptop ;)
<ogra> i have an amd64 laptop... but with a broken CD/DVD ...
<mhz> I have a ppc laptop here, G3, 350 Mhz
<ogra> and i have a ppc thats owned by my GF
<highvoltage> ogra: install over network, ubuntu's network install is cool.
<highvoltage> ogra: but you probably know about that :)
<ogra> highvoltage, i have to test the iso, that no option
<mhz> mmmmmh, you're screwd, then
<mhz> :)
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, sorry.
<mhz> even using the Q... that let's you run any OS?
<ogra> mhz, nope, i'll buy a second HD for the ppc tomorrow and if i can get one, a USB DVD writer ...
<mhz> will it boot fromUSB?
<highvoltage> ogra: does ppc and amd64 not have to be released today too?
<ogra> highvoltage, all or nothing
<ogra> highvoltage, the bad part is that i urgently want the DVD too... so i'll have to test that as well for all arhes
<mhz> mmmmmh, you're screwd, then
<mhz> :D
* mhz just kidding
<ogra> i'll manage somehow... i doubt i'll see any breakage on the other arches, but you never know
<mhz> User Friendly should write an issue about ogra's cruzade
<ogra> the problem is the download speed, DVDs take ages... even if they are onyl 2Gig big
<jsgotangco> you'll maswan's mighty bandwidth heh
<mhz> ogra: and phisically, where are the files hosted?
<mhz> country?
<jsgotangco> swiss alps
<ogra> mhz, UK, i dont know if dailies get rsynced to the mirrors
<mhz> can canonical pay you the trip to the host?
<highvoltage> can i link an image to another page in moin?
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/
<mhz> highvoltage: yes
<highvoltage> mhz: how do i do that?
<mhz> ahh
<ogra> highvoltage, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/
<ogra> screenshots ^^^
<mhz> highvoltage: unfortunately, we depend on admin having installed some stuff I presume he did not (unintentionally , of course)
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks
<mhz> highvoltage: however, what from normal moin usercan do is "call a page from another page"
<mhz> see www.tecnocimiento.cl
<mhz> that has 3 pages called and 'rendered' from Inicio page
<mhz> one of them is an image
<mhz> :)
<jsgotangco> ogra, will you be the one sending the annoucement?
<ogra> jsgotangco, i think JaneW rather
<ogra> i need some sleep i'll go to bed for 4-5h
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> i will catch her up then
<ogra> from my POV the RC announcement is fine...
<ogra> the liks (wiki) need to be updated though....
<jsgotangco> let me see what needs fixing
<highvoltage> do we still need the ==Design== section on the edubuntu wiki frontpage?
<highvoltage> where can i find our old frontpage?
<highvoltage> i'm going to move /Edubuntu to /EdubuntuFrontpage
<highvoltage> or no.
<highvoltage> i'm going to move the content to /EdubuntuWiki
<highvoltage> and redirect
<maximillian> anyone here?
<jsgotangco> hi
<maximillian> I have some questions.....
* highvoltage is
<jsgotangco> a few minutes after release? hehehe
<maximillian> you just answered it
<maximillian> hehe
<highvoltage> hehe
<jsgotangco> we've just released a few minutes ago, give it some time =)
<maximillian> I'm trying to install/implement ltsp these past few days and failed
<maximillian> oh
<maximillian> is there a guide somewhere, a documentation perhaps?
<maximillian> I'm kinda' new to linux, so I'm really dependent to step-by-step guides
<jsgotangco> well the edubuntu ltsp setup is straightforward, you will tweak very little settings
<maximillian> I installed the preview yesterday, and didn't find a menu or something
<jsgotangco> menu?
<maximillian> do you still ltspadmin? haha thats why
<maximillian> I had a quick look
<maximillian> nvm
<maximillian> another thing, since no one is awake in #ltsp
<maximillian> here's my setting, the ltsp and client is connected in a router. one LAN card each... dhcp in router, thats possible right?
<maximillian> ^_^
<highvoltage> maximillian: no, you don't need ltspadmin anymore.
<maximillian> there's a GUI?
<highvoltage> maximillian: yes, that's possible. do you have two network cards on the server?
<highvoltage> maximillian: not that i'm aware of, everything Just Works ;)
<maximillian> only one. but I can I have two. But if its possible to only have one connected to the same hub/network of the gateway
<maximillian> how do you configure ltsp? and user restrictions?
<maximillian> because some of the workstations only have 128 ram.
<highvoltage> maximillian: ltsp is automatically configured for your first network card.
<highvoltage> maximillian: if you have it all on the same network and two dhcp servers you could run into some trouble.
<highvoltage> maximillian: i'm not sure about your exact setup, would you care to elaborate? I would also suggest that you post your setup to the mailing list.
<highvoltage> i think most edubuntians are still sleepy ;)
<maximillian> oh
<maximillian> no dhcp server, all static.
<highvoltage> you'll need a dhcp server for the ltsp server, the thin clients uses dhcp to get the host information off from the server.
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, you guys making a release announcement?
<maximillian> highvoltage: can i send you the set-up/structure image? 33kb only
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, i've already made one but JaneW will be the one sending
<highvoltage> maximillian: sure, jonathan@tsf.org.za
<highvoltage> maximillian: i have to get to work soon, so i might not be able to help you very quickly
<maximillian> no wait, there isnt much. around 16 workstations connected to a hub01. then the hub01 is connected to hub02 along with other wrkstations 
<maximillian> then they all go out to 192.168.3.1 gateway
<maximillian> no dhcp server. at least the ubuntu installation didnt detect it
<maximillian> ^_^
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> JaneW, send the annoucement! or i'll beat you to it
<jsgotangco> heh
<JaneW> jsgotangco: just need to check it again quick to make sure k-i and features lists are complete...
<jsgotangco> =)
<JaneW> also I'll need to dbl check with the powers thsat be that it can go out....
<highvoltage> my word. i only caught up on the edubuntu girl issues now :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: what's your opinion?
<highvoltage> JaneW: she's not white, she's transparent.
<JaneW> I polled chmj and he didn;t find it offensive in the least and called the outrage 'that is ... uhm ... nonsense?'
<highvoltage> there's a school in mitchels plain, where there's not one white kid in the school, but all the kids painted on the walls there are the same pale white.
<highvoltage> i'm thinking of taking photos of the kids there with the painting in the background,
<JaneW> highvoltage: and do they refuse to go to school? ;)
<highvoltage> and show them how *real* south africans see themselves.
<highvoltage> no!
<JaneW> exactly we don;t see studd like that anymore
<highvoltage> they relate to the kids on the walls. they don't see a colour issue.
<jsgotangco> because kids don't see color at all
<JaneW> sometimes ppl in pictures are brown, sometimes beige, somtimes pink, sometimes yellow, sometimes organe, no-one cares....
<highvoltage> white people aren
<highvoltage> 't
<highvoltage> actually white.
<JaneW> s/studd/stuff
<highvoltage> they're more beigy/pinky. edubuntu girl is completely pale-paper white. she could've just as well been orange or magenta or blue.
<highvoltage> it's all the same.
<highvoltage> JaneW: have you looked at the website / news?
<JaneW> hey I am pale with brown spots!
* highvoltage is a bit rusty himself
<JaneW> but now back to the release announcement...
<JaneW> will discuss web site after (but I like I like)
<highvoltage> i like edubuntu girl. she has a mysterious smile. she's like mona lisa.
<jane_> is ogra up yet?
<jsgotangco> he slept for a while
<jsgotangco> he said he'll be up in a few hours
<highvoltage> jane_: he said he needs to sleep for 4 hours or so, that was about 2 hours ago.
<jane_> I need to know if the d/l link is http://us.releases.ubuntu.com/releases/edubuntu/5.10/ or http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/breezy/.
(jsgotangco/#edubuntu) yes us.r.c
(jane_/#edubuntu) so 5.10 not breezy ?
(jsgotangco/#edubuntu) yes don't use breezy!
(jsgotangco/#edubuntu) its a code name
(jane_/#edubuntu) OK!
(jane_/#edubuntu) that's what I thought
* jane_ corrects install notes
<highvoltage> jane_ = JaneW ?
<highvoltage> ubuntulog: wb :)
<jane_> highvoltage: yep, got disconnected
<jane_> please proof http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<jane_> wait when it saves properly
<jsgotangco> ok
<Madpilot> I just noticed a link typo in the Edubuntu main wiki page, but I'm not sure what it should actually be...
<highvoltage> jane_: the writing faster than 8x part, i don't think that's true.
<jane_> it's ogra comment
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuWiki <-- here, under What's New, "They can be found here on our  wiki" - the wiki link is to http://www.edubuntu.org/Preview_Wallpaper_Examples - which apparently doesn't exist at all...
<highvoltage> perhaps change the wording to "for optimal use, we recommend burning the cd image at 8x or below.
<jane_> Madpilot: we need someone to fix all the links the wiki was move last night
<jane_> why does http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuReleaseCandidate look weird (blue and funny layout?)
<maximillian> is edubuntu-breezy also be released today?
<Madpilot> jane_: OK, thanks. Didn't realized the Edubuntu wiki had moved...
<maximillian> edubuntu supports thin clients right? no client installation
<jsgotangco> it can work as standalone by typing workstation at boot
<highvoltage> jane_: sub pages aren't working at the moment. it's a problem with 
<highvoltage> the themes and wiki merge.
<highvoltage> hno73 looked into it, i'm not sure if he has a solution yet.
<jane_> the current view sucks... the edit window is about 1/10 of the screen!
<highvoltage> that's in the subpages
<highvoltage> jane_: I suggest you move that page out of a subpage
<highvoltage> jane_: otherwise we'll be publiching a page that's effectively broken.
<jane_> highvoltage: can you put the announcement on the html page at all?
<highvoltage> jane_: can i put a link to it?
<jane_> can we fix the sucky wiki page? ;)
<highvoltage> but it it possible.
<maximillian> would the workstations crawl if I say I only have 768ram?
<highvoltage> jane_: i can move it to a higher level location, which will make it look fixed :)
<highvoltage> jane_: please don't edit the page for a few seconds, tell me when you're ready.
<jane_> highvoltage:  that will help
<jane_> I am editing
<jane_> just saving now
<highvoltage> ok, tell me when it's done
<jane_> it's currently called http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuReleaseCandidate
<jane_> can you change to http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuReleaseAnnouncement ?
<highvoltage> yes. is it saved?
<jane_> not yet
<jane_> SLOW here today (of all days)
<highvoltage> hehe
<highvoltage> still not?
<jsgotangco>  well the ubuntu.com wiki is terribly slow really
<jane_> afterward can you sort out http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuReleaseNotes too, but that's less urgent
<highvoltage> let me do that now, while i wait
<Zaheer> hello
<highvoltage> hi Zaheer 
<Zaheer> yo hows it going?
<jane_> highvoltage: the page is saved
<highvoltage> a bit hectic :)
<Zaheer> i see so :)
<Zaheer> i was hoping to find you here. quick question are there classes this w/end
<jane_> highvoltage: I created the empty page http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuReleaseAnnouncement
<highvoltage> i'm overwriting it- sorry.
<sensei> I just installed edubuntu
<highvoltage> sensei: yay!
<sensei> where can I configure thin client settings/ user restrictions? 
<jane_> highvoltage: np
<highvoltage> sensei: would you care to elaborate?
<highvoltage> jane_: pages saving. please wait... ;)
<highvoltage> jane_: check if it's ok to your satisfaction
<jane_> highvoltage: thanks will do
* jane_ waits
<jane_> highvoltage: where is it?
<sensei> Would it possible to limit the access of the thin-client-users to say, firefox gaim office x chat and two folders one shared one not? =)
<sensei> I read about kiosk tool for kde
<highvoltage> jane_: sorry, you wanted the releasecandidate page over that, hold on please.
<highvoltage> JaneW: saving...
<JaneW> thanks
<JaneW> there it is :)
<JaneW> looks way better now, thanks :)
<highvoltage> cool.
<sensei> I need a hand
<sensei> on another thought, I don't need to download anything big, (like LTSP) because I'm going to bring this system to place with shared internet connection, after I installation?
<JaneW> please proof our announcement http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuReleaseAnnouncement
<JaneW> highvoltage: do you have any more time?
<JaneW> highvoltage: once the announcement goes out we can expect more traffic to our site and wiki, we should che ck all the links (and the sub page issue) to make sure it's all working, else we'll get a flood or complaints and questions about it
<JaneW> jsgotangco: are you there and able to help? ^^^
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'm going to break my rule and spend some time on this, will work in later, let me wuick read throught ht eannounce
<jsgotangco> mmm?
<JaneW> highvoltage: THANK-YOU
<jsgotangco> what should i do?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: can you just trwal the wiki and make sure links are working and everything is displaying properly... we had to move some of the pages out of the doc section because sub pages are displaying weirdly
<JaneW> please
<highvoltage> JaneW: i can't find any problems
<jsgotangco> ok the only problem i only encoutered really was with my doc pages
<jsgotangco> other than that, it works fine
<JaneW> highvoltage: did you do http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuScreenShots? V COOL! ;)
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, i will link them to larger images at some stage
<highvoltage> and add more screenshots
<JaneW> highvoltage: we must also put a link to OS dir, if/when they are updated/available
<highvoltage> time caught up with me :(
<JaneW> looks great
<highvoltage> ok, will do so.
<highvoltage> JaneW: you looked at http://www.edubuntu.org/news.html ? i kept it short and simple.
<JaneW> highvoltage: I also think we need some more explicit links in http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuArtwork to http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/
<JaneW> not yet
<JaneW> nice start to the FAQ to, we must expand that in the next few weeks too
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> yes
<sensei> are there specific tool for ltsp?
<highvoltage> brb, hectic this side too!
<JaneW> highvoltage: my main question atm (may be complicated) is can the edubuntu wiki skin not be triggered when accessing the edubuntu wiki through the edubuntu site? It seems to have to set the skin manually and then all ubuntu wiki pages use that skin....
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I just nnoticed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBadger THANK-YOU!!! :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<highvoltage> JaneW: that's a problem at the moment, one that we can't easily get around. hno73 is the one to talk to about that.
<highvoltage> hehe. just came across this http://art.ubuntu.com/images/backgrounds/Edubuntu-BreezyOnEdubuntuLogo_1024x768.png
<JaneW> I see the wiki front page is back to the default FrontPage, will we have the language issues with that again?
<JaneW> highvoltage: ok thanks
<highvoltage> the "FrontPage" as you see it there is probably the Ubuntu frontpage
<JaneW> oh you are right
<JaneW> sorry didn't read it carefully
<highvoltage> the wiki merge is a bit messy, but it's a general problem, not ours, so there will probably be lots of people working on fixing it.
<highvoltage> JaneW: i wouldn't stress _too_ much about it.
<highvoltage> JaneW: sorry, did you ask me to do something?
<JaneW> ok our front page is called EdubuntuWiki
<JaneW> um... the OS Dir link?
<JaneW> in screenshots
<highvoltage> have they uploaded something yet?
<JaneW> not sure, probably not... we must just remeber to add it later then
<JaneW> I like the news page too, we must just add a link to the actual release announcement: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuReleaseAnnouncement
<JaneW> highvoltage: do you (or can you get) admin rights on our site?
<highvoltage> JaneW: http://www.osdir.com/Article7267.phtml <- it's a bit outdated, should i include it?
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, I have.
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'll include it, and mention that it's screenshots from the preview release
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes please, we'll update when they have the new stuff up
<sensei> whats the best way to restrict users to just use certain applications or restrict them from changing the desktop upto system settings?
<highvoltage> sensei: by default, your users won't have the right to change system settings.
<highvoltage> sensei: only the first user you create will have admin privilages
<sensei> oh
<sensei> would that include preferences? screen resolution etc. how about desktop restriction? 
<highvoltage> not sure about that though. i haven't restricted users from changing wallpapers, etc. i've always thought it's a good thing :)
<enyc> hmmmm
<enyc> i thought making the install images ready/available BEFORE announcing on website was the normal/sensible plan......
* enyc puzzled
<JaneW> enyc: you are correct
<enyc> hmmm
<JaneW> enyc: we are battling to synchronise, we have to wait for someone in Germany to wake up to give us the go ahead for the images
<enyc> o ;-)
<JaneW> enyc: web page changes go through sys admins in London
<enyc> blurgh what a wuddle ;p
<JaneW> enyc: ppl in Cape Town are trying to update the pages and make them relevent in time for the official e-mail announcement
<JaneW> (and some of us are relatively new to the process)
<JaneW> and ppl are helping in Australia, Chili and Philippines too
<enyc> so... the images are uplaoded ready.... but the index shown the preview release files?
<JaneW> so I agree with you, and appologise, I just can't figure out how to make it all gel at the same time ;/
<enyc> dont worry ;-)
<crimsun> as we get used to each others' schedules, it will become more fluid
<JaneW> the final release images should be up in the next few hours
<JaneW> say 4 at the most
<enyc> write a wiki topic about the problem ;-)
<JaneW> crimsun: yup
* highvoltage makes not to take leave at time of next release :)
<crimsun> ;-)
<JaneW> highvoltage: I hope that's amakes note NOT :P
<highvoltage> s/not/note ;)
* JaneW jiggles ogra *wake up*
<highvoltage> hno73 seems awake
* JaneW feels like a kid on christmas morning
<highvoltage> i'll ask him to join
* highvoltage too
<highvoltage> exciting, isn't it?
* enyc throws a huuuuge pile of 0000s all over ogra
<highvoltage> edubuntu ended up quite ok, even though some people had a problem with edubuntu-girl.
<highvoltage> i think they're just jealous.
<highvoltage> :)
<crimsun> I never saw edubuntu-girl ;/
* enyc throws a huuuuge pile of 1111s all over high
* highvoltage mixes the 1111's and 0000's
<highvoltage> hi hno73 :)
<JaneW> hehe
<hno73> highvoltage: hello!
<highvoltage> hno73: how much insight do you have in the wiki situation, and what we can do about it?
<highvoltage> could you please update JaneW on it?
<JaneW> crimsun: see her here http://www.edubuntu.org/news.html
<hno73> what is the 'situation'?
<crimsun> JaneW: thanks
<crimsun> dude, that's chic!
<highvoltage> oops, found a type there.
<JaneW> hno73: I was just wondering if it is possible that the edubuntu wiki skin be triggered when accessing the edubuntu wiki through the edubuntu site? It seems to have to set the skin manually and then all ubuntu wiki pages use that skin....
<hno73> JaneW: I think the way it works is that if you are logged in you can pick your own skin, irrespective of what URL you are surfing on
<hno73> if you are logged out you get the edubuntu skin on wiki.edubuntu.org
<hno73> so new users comming in through edubuntu will get the new skin
<highvoltage> ah, now it's clearer to me too.
<hno73> try it in a browser that is not your default (like konq)
<hno73> and you'll see how new users see it
<JaneW> oic, hno73 that sounds ok
* JaneW goes to check
<hno73> if you are logged in, go to user prefs to pick a skin
* JaneW doesn't have another browser... erk
<JaneW> will boot into *that which can not be mentioned* to check later ;)
<hno73> and with that I realise that the wiki skin is a bit broken in konqueror :(
* highvoltage coughs
<JaneW> heh
<highvoltage> looks ok on my konqueror
<hno73> JaneW: if you just log out of the wiki, you'll see it
<hno73> On mine 'Help' appears in the wrong place. Not a major issue
<highvoltage> hno73: you're refering to the test in the orange part that spans two lines?
<highvoltage> yes, i see now.
<jsgotangco> im going out
<jsgotangco> see you guys later
<JaneW> hno73: ok I saw it, it makes sense and is perfect, thanks
<JaneW> we want ogra! ;)
* highvoltage just noticed something strange on the khangman screenshot
<JaneW> wot?
<highvoltage> now i'll have to change that before someone complains.
<highvoltage> JaneW: the missing letters: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuScreenShots?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=t_khangman.png
<Madpilot> highvoltage: leave it, it's a bit of an easter egg for the observant... ;)
<JaneW> LOL
<JaneW> that's cool and it could be worse
<JaneW> let send a prize to the forst person who complains ;)
<JaneW> first even
<highvoltage> hehe
<highvoltage> easter eggs! that's one thing we haven't discussed yet.
* highvoltage takes the role of easter egg master
<highvoltage> http://daniel-robitaille.blogspot.com/2005/07/ubuntu-easter-eggs.html
<highvoltage> hehe. the Ubuntu "Big Banana" release :)
<highvoltage> that's sure to bring some controversy.
<JaneW> highvoltage: tell me more, I have not really ever been involved with this phenomenon
<JaneW> I was coming up with those names
<highvoltage> JaneW: easter eggs are normally hidden, undocumented "presents" for the end user
<JaneW> until the strawberry one
<highvoltage> oh, the names, i though you refered to easter eggs :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: who knows, perhaps you did :)
<JaneW> my theme was adjective and nut (play on KERNEL)
<JaneW> highvoltage: I didn;t know they were 'easter eggs' though
<highvoltage> there should be a Loud Flint release.
<highvoltage> no, strictly they're not.
<JaneW> someone changed it (prolly BenC when he took over)
<highvoltage> it's tough to have easter eggs in OSS software, since nothing is really undocemented.
<highvoltage> that's why i'm so delighted about our easter egg on the website.
<JaneW> heh
<highvoltage> JaneW: do you know apt-get moo?
<JaneW> nope
<highvoltage> open a terminal
<highvoltage> type apt-get
<highvoltage> see the last line?
<highvoltage>                        This APT has Super Cow Powers.
<highvoltage> now if you type apt-get moo
<highvoltage> you get a picture of a cow :)
<Madpilot> then there's cowsay and cowthink... proof that time was wasted before the invention of Tetris...
<JaneW> lol
<highvoltage> JaneW: have you seen aptitude?
<highvoltage> aptitude --help
<highvoltage>                   This aptitude does not have Super Cow Powers.
<highvoltage> aptitude moo :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: the theme disapeared because he logged in, and that's his default theme
<highvoltage> JaneW: ooh, nice way of answering
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> lazy ;)
<JaneW> I wanna send out the announcement ..... *pout*
<jsgotangco> but?
* JaneW is not patient today ;)
* highvoltage neither!
<jsgotangco> whats stopping you? no test results yet?
<JaneW> we are not allowed to until ogra has confirmed that the images for all 3 architectures are fully tested and functional
<jsgotangco> send me a PPC and i'll test now
<JaneW> sabdfl has approved the announcement now, so we are just waiting on test results
* JaneW DCC's a PPC
<jsgotangco> make it a powerbook
<jsgotangco> im not feeling good at the moment i hope i dont catch a cold
<JaneW> jsgotangco: rest and eat and orange
<JaneW> an
<JaneW> highvoltage: can you do a web site edit?
<jsgotangco> orange reminds me of our wallpaper
<JaneW> silbs JaneW, hno73 : minor tweak to the edubuntu site - the footer at the bottom says Ubuntu and Canonical are trademarks of Canonical. Can you amend to include Edubuntu in that sentence too please?
* jsgotangco decides to go out and buy beer instead
<JaneW> jsgotangco: not a good way to stave off a cold! :P
<JaneW> jsgotangco: make it a brandy or rum... ;)
<jsgotangco> it'll do
<jsgotangco> brb
<JaneW> highvoltage: sabdfl JaneW: and Kubuntu too, while you're there
<highvoltage> JaneW: ?
<JaneW> highvoltage: the page footers in the wiki and website need to have 'Edubuntu and Kubuntu' added to the trademark list
<JaneW> highvoltage: can you do that or do I need to ask hno73?
<highvoltage> ah, right. the original had Edeubunut
<highvoltage> edubuntu even
<JaneW> yes
<highvoltage> i can add it to our static pages, hno73 can add it to the wiki pages
<JaneW> silbs and sabdfl want all the trademarks listed Canonical, Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Edubuntu
<JaneW> ok
<highvoltage> in that order, i presume.
<JaneW> hno73: could you amend the edubuntu wiki skin footer to include all trademarks please? ( Canonical, Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Edubuntu)
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes I think so
<hno73> JaneW: Right
<JaneW> hno73 / highvoltage : thanks :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: it's done, i'll do some more cleanups later today. if you have any suggestions, list them, I'll get as far as i can tonight. for that that I can't get to by wednesday, we can discuss in the meeting.
<hno73> JaneW: done
<JaneW> hno73: thank-you
<JaneW> highvoltage: yours needs one further edit it says " 2005 Canonical, Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Edubuntu are registered trademarks of Canonical Ltd."
<JaneW> it needs to say " 2005 Canonical. Canonical, Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Edubuntu are registered trademarks of Canonical Ltd."
<JaneW> i.e. all material is copyrighted to Canonical AND Canonical is a trademark.
<highvoltage> ok
<JaneW> ta
<highvoltage> all these 'buntus gets a bit confusing after a while.
<highvoltage> :)
<JaneW> nod
<highvoltage> JaneW: when you're back at the office, we should have lunch or champagne or something to celebrate :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: indeed - I'll be in tomorrow actually
<JaneW> highvoltage: my last nag is to put the link the the announcement (http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuReleaseAnnouncement) on http://www.edubuntu.org/news.html in the debut section...
<highvoltage> JaneW: that fine?
<highvoltage> http://www.edubuntu.org/news.html
<JaneW> perfect
<JaneW> o.g.r.a....
<highvoltage> ogratjie
<JaneW> groa
<highvoltage> :)
<JaneW> arog
<ajmitch_> hi
<JaneW> rago
<highvoltage> hi ajmitch_ 
<JaneW> roag
<JaneW> oarg
<JaneW> hello
* JaneW wants to make an edubuntu cake
<highvoltage> JaneW: that would be SO cool!
* highvoltage will take lots of photos
<JaneW> ;)
<highvoltage> JaneW: are you serious?
<JaneW> highvoltage: if we get the thing released before 3pm I may have time to pull it off
<highvoltage> OGRA!
<JaneW> LOL
* highvoltage gets back to work
<enyc> 0000
<highvoltage> 10101
<highvoltage> enyc: that's the answer
<JaneW> highvoltage: isn't it 1010?
<JaneW> nope 101010
<JaneW> ?
* JaneW gets all confused
<JaneW> yes it 101010
<ajmitch_> :)
<JaneW> :)
<ajmitch_> thanks for all the fish
<JaneW> don't panic
* ajmitch_ recalls that badger dance at the start :)
<JaneW> lol that was funny
<ajmitch_> I wonder what will happen for UBZ
<JaneW> duck walking?
* ajmitch_ will have to decide whether he stays around until the 10th or not
<ajmitch_> since my flight back to NZ is on the 15th :)
* JaneW is leaving on the 8th
<ajmitch_> depends if there's any interesting launchpad stuff
<ajmitch_> especially bzr
<JaneW> ajmitch_: I think launchpad will be very interesting
<JaneW> but I was going to be away for nearly 2 weeks, and was going to miss my son;s 4th birthday so I chose to return a bit earlier
<ajmitch_> yeah
<ajmitch_> LP BOFs won't be very interesting to most outsiders I think
<ajmitch_> since none of us are working on it :)
<JaneW> ok I have to dash
<JaneW> I guess ogra is resting
<JaneW> I have the release announcement all ready here, I just need to hit send.
<JaneW> if ogra comes in could you ask him to confirm test results and get the ok from Kamion (or mdz or sabdfl) and then I can hit send the minute I am back?
<JaneW> thanks!
<ajmitch_> sure
<highvoltage> ogreo
<highvoltage> well, i'm glad ogra is getting some well deserved rest.
<ogra> wasnt that much :)
<enyc> hello ogra ;-)
<ajmitch_> hey ogra :)
<highvoltage> ogra: isn't there someone in your street with an amd64?
<highvoltage> i just can't think of a way to do it.
<ogra> highvoltage, my street is 1km long and has 5 houses
<highvoltage> a friend of mine has an amd64, but we don't have bandwidth here.
<highvoltage> ogra: wow.
<enyc> erm btw oddly enough i found tuxpaint sound worked last night....
<highvoltage> ogra: my street is about 5m long with 20 houses ;)
<ogra> heh
<enyc> ill have to test on edubuntu cd install
* enyc jumps up/down and demands edubuntu 5.10 cd image :-)
<ajmitch_> ogra: so have you done as JaneW requested above?
<ajmitch_> got ok from kamion/mdz/sabdfl & pinged jane to send? :)
<ogra> ajmitch_, not without the missing  tests
<ajmitch_> ok
<ajmitch_> which ones need done?
<highvoltage> Jane: summary from -devel: Kamion is rsyncing his breezy amd64 cd to edubuntu64, after that he just has to install/test.
<highvoltage> ogra: after that all is set for announce, right?
<Jeromee> how well does edubuntu respond in a server atmosphere?
<Jeromee> what does it have to offer, that ubundu or kubuntu doesn't?
<highvoltage> the default installation is a server install.
<highvoltage> so it's ideal for server.
<highvoltage> Edubuntu auto-installs and configures LTSP
<Jeromee> hmm
<Jeromee> does it interact with windows well?
<highvoltage> samba isn't installed by default, afaik.
<Jeromee> I'm looking to setup a fileserver, and I've been debating between an ubuntu based system, or a freebsd based system
<highvoltage> if it's a fileserver only, i would recomend ubuntu.
<ogra> highvoltage, samba is there and with the shares admin tool its easy to set up
<highvoltage> is it like that on ubuntu too, or is it an edubuntu feature?
<ajmitch_> highvoltage: I think it's still blocking on powerpc testing? noone seems to be able to get the image fast enough
<ogra> highvoltage, edubuntu feature
<highvoltage> ogra: excellent, i didn't know about that.
<ogra> ajmitch_, getting 15K now
<ajmitch_> ogra: impressive
<ogra> ETA 7h :/
<highvoltage> ogra: do we have a page somewhere with complete features? which includes the links to schooltool, etc?
<ogra> i cant rsny ppc, i have no image here
<Jeromee> is there a download for edubuntu?
<ogra> Jeromee, thats what we'll release today (assuming i find a tester for ppc) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<highvoltage> Jeromee: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/DownloadEdubuntu
* ajmitch_ only had a really old breezy image for ubuntu ppc
<ogra> ajmitch_, at least you *can* rsync .. its a speedup in any case
<Jeromee> ogra: are you a maintainer or something?
<ajmitch_> hm I have colony 5 ubuntu to rsync from
<ogra> Jeromee, yes
<ajmitch_> Jeromee: he is *the* maintainer of edubuntu
<ogra> ajmitch_, ppc ? 
<ajmitch_> ogra: yes
<ajmitch_> I'll try find the rsync url
<ogra> rsync -z -a --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/breezy-install-powerpc.iso breezy-install-powerpc.iso breezy-install-powerpc.iso
<ogra> ajmitch_, ^^
<ajmitch_> thanks
<ajmitch_> @ERROR: Unknown module 'edubuntu'
<ajmitch_> strange
<ogra> err
* ajmitch_ looks at the module list
<ajmitch_> missing cdimage from url
<ogra> rsync -z -a --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/daily/current/breezy-install-powerpc.iso breezy-install-powerpc.iso breezy-install-powerpc.iso
<ogra> sorry
* ajmitch_ waits really patiently for rsync to start doing something
<ajmitch_>      163840   0%    2.03kB/s   95:56:36
<ajmitch_> real fast :)
<highvoltage> hey! that looks like our bandwidth!
<ajmitch_> heh
<kjaer> Is ACL builded into edubuntu, if not, shouldn't it be ?
* ajmitch_ needs his bed soon :)
<ogra> kjaer, its not, and shouldnt be yet... next release when we target more than one classroom
<kjaer> ogra: And next release is in 6 months ?
<ogra> yup
<highvoltage> anyone remember the name of that spanish guy from guidalinux that was at the summit?
<ogra> indeed you can tewak yurself as you like
<ogra> *tweak
<JaneW> back
<JaneW> hello
<ogra> hi JaneW :/
<JaneW> hi OGRA :))
<JaneW> you're up ;)
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> are we ready to send out announcement?
<ogra> 4h of sleep are plenty
<ajmitch_> wb JaneW 
<ogra> nope
<ajmitch_> ogra: I agree!
<JaneW> :(
<JaneW> problem?
<kjaer> ogra: Well, if interested I've got a few ideas which would be useful at my school at least.
<ogra> the cdimage server doesnt give any bandwith currently
* ajmitch_ will probably have to get out of bed in ~6 hours, but I haven't gone off to sleep yet
<ogra> kjaer, absolutely !
<ajmitch_> JaneW: still trying to fetch powerpc iso to test
<ogra> JaneW, we're still lacking tests 
<JaneW> dang
* ajmitch_ is only 6MB into the rsync
<ogra> nobody except me tested yet... i'll need far more hardware next time and more different arches...
<ogra> worst is that my dvd writer gave up 2 days ago...
<ajmitch_> someone ship ogra a new amd64 & powerpc box thanks
<JaneW> ogra: i see, can it still be done today do you think?
<ogra> JaneW, i'm currently convincing my GF that i can install over her work machine (powerpc) 
* highvoltage is considering buying a mac mini
<ogra> but the iso is coming down very slow... ETA 9h
<highvoltage> ouch
<JaneW> ogra: eek
<ajmitch_> JaneW: if I can get the ISO I can attempt to install on an old G3 here which has hoary & OSX
<JaneW> has anyone on u-d offered to help yet?
<kjaer> If anyone didn't know ACL is Access Control List, it should allow users to share their documents not with groups but with specifik users. Say if some dude wants to pass his english notes to his work-buddies, he can do that. Without setting up new groups all the time.
<JaneW> or can I beg some more?
<highvoltage> ajmitch_: getting the iso seems to be biggest part of the problem :(
<ogra> i'll buy a new dvd writer today... if they have any mac HW there, i'll buy one too ... just for this test, sigh
<ajmitch_> highvoltage: yeah :(
<ogra> JaneW, Kamion is downloading both missing arches, but he is already up since 30-40h
<kjaer> Well, what is needed is a simple way to allow users to share their data. I imagine a similar method as to how a filemanager handles chmod'ing of files today.
<JaneW> ogra: yes and the last thing we want is to annoy him
<ogra> JaneW, mvo tries to download but has the same bandwith problem
<ajmitch_> hm
<kjaer> Like allow these users to edit this document. And allow the teacher to read it.
<JaneW> I guess today is not the best day for bandwidth
<ogra> JaneW, he'll do it if we dont find someone else...
<ajmitch_> battery light is flashing on laptop, time to walk upstairs & plug it in :)
<JaneW> ogra: and they weren't ready before now right? so it's not like we were slack at getting them tested...?
<ogra> JaneW, but we owe him a lot already i'd rather see someone else test
<kjaer> This raises loads of problems, first of all no filemanager have these capabilities yet. So that would have to be made.
<JaneW> ogra: agreed
<ogra> kjaer, that'd be very intrusive to change in the filemanager....
<kjaer> Secondly, a lot of users, at least where I live, use windows at home. I think it would be nice to let them have access to their school work. Maybe using sftp or some remote samba or similar.
<ogra> kjaer, i think we'd rather go with a filesystem that supports ACL 
<kjaer> ogra: The idea is to let the users edit whom they like to share their files with ?
<JaneW> highvoltage: now I am keen to make that cake ... but we need a release...
<ogra> kjaer, ah, thats something you can do by simply modifying the access rights, right
<highvoltage> ogra: can't you stop downloads for the entire rest of the world?
<highvoltage> ogra: so that we can get our cake faster?
<JaneW> highvoltage: good idea!
<ogra> highvoltage, ping elmo ;)
<kjaer> ogra: Yes it is. But as far as I know konqueror only handles the me-user-group rights scheme ?
<ajmitch_> ogra: or znarl :)
<ogra> my prob i that i have no ppc iso here yet... rsyncing would be a hell lot faster
<ogra> kjaer, i have no clue about konqueror...
* ogra <- gnome guy
<kjaer> Okay, but nautilus handles it ?
<ogra> yes, but patching nautilus is no option
<ogra> we need to work with the default ubuntu packages... 
<ajmitch_> I think there's a nautilus plugin for acls
<ogra> so its either a gobal add on that also ubuntu uses, but that would have to be done upstream by the gnome guys or a separate add on tool
<kjaer> ajmitch_: Okay, I'll look that up.
<ajmitch_> eiciel is in universe, haven't looked at it though
<ogra> ajmitch_, nice hint... we'll add it to the desktop next release ;)
<ajmitch_> :)
<kjaer> Thats a great program. :-)
<mhz> hey all
<kjaer> Well my problem is partly solved :-)
<mhz> morining
<mhz> i am sorry i wont be here unitl 2-3 more hours (family tasks)
<kjaer> Next is, how can the students access their files from home ?
<mhz> but I do have news...
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCdAndSlip
<mhz> please provide feedback
<ogra> kjaer, not a solution we target with this release :)
<kjaer> ogra: Unless I make it myself ?
<ogra> yup
<mhz> JaneW: i decided to pass on my ideas (drawings) to a designer so he could give the "better touch" and I got them back near 03:am while I was sleeping. Hope you gmme uour thoughts :)
<ogra> kjaer, opening ssh access through a firewall would be possible for example and using sftp
<JaneW> mhz: sure where are they?
<mhz> ogra: i am trying to get a ppc here, just in case it is susefull somehow. so far, unsuccessfully
<ajmitch_> mhz: NZ is very close to south america in that design ;)
<kjaer> ogra: Yes, but wondered if any windows tools would be able to handle the permissions.
<mhz> JaneW: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCdAndSlip
<mhz> ajmitch_: please wiki the feedback, i truly gotta run now, sorry with sugar on top :D
<ajmitch_> hehe
<ajmitch_> it's nothing important
* mhz_family BB in 3 hurs tops
<mhz_family> re for 5 minutes :)
<goose> Greetings
<goose> I was wondering if some one could assist me with some questions about the Edubuntu Linux OS
<highvoltage> ogra: so it's ppc that's still left?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i still have a ETA of 6.5h for the iso
<ajmitch_> :(
* ajmitch_ has 48h eta
<ajmitch_> although it varies a lot :)
<JaneW> not good news
<gooseuk> Hello
<gooseuk> I was wondering if some one could assist me with some questions about the Edubuntu Linux OS?
<ajmitch_> gooseuk: please, just ask & someone may be around to answer :)
<gooseuk> Ok thank you
<gooseuk> I understand that this distro is directed primarily at schools, what version of OpenOffice is installed on the current release?
<ogra> ooo2
<gooseuk> Is this distro difficult to install, or is it similar to xandros or Mandrake in the install process?
<ogra> easier ? :)
<gooseuk> Really?
<ogra> depending what you want, the workstation install will be easier than others (like ubuntu is) the default install requires a minimal amount of knowledge and the minimal install (confusingly called server) is easier again
<ogra> note that the default install installs a one classroom standalone ltsp server
<gooseuk> I apologise for sounding stupid but what is that?
<ogra> the CD has three install flavours, depending what you want you hit enter, type workstation or type server at the CD bootprompt
<ogra> gooseuk, look here, its probably easier to understand: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<gooseuk> ::nods:: thank you. I apologise for the stupid questions.
<ogra> (dont follow that download link yet, the final images are not yet populated, happening during the day today)
<ogra> gooseuk, there are no stupid questions
<ogra> only silly people that dont take questions serious :)
<gooseuk> How would I install new software, I understand that installing new software to a Linux OS is difficult?
<ogra> gooseuk, you click the point "add applications" in your menu, give your password, select what you want installed in a tree menu, mark a checkbox and click the apply button :)
<gooseuk> I am impressed, does this client include some sort of anti virus software?
<ogra> (that goes for mainly all desktop apps... ) 
<ogra> for advanced users we have a minimally more complicated tool called synaptic...
<ogra> gooseuk, there are no viruses for linux ;)
<ogra> the only thing you need a virus scanner for on linux is to not spread windows viruses you recieve to windows users
<ogra> ;)
<gooseuk> ::Grins:: We use windows as well at the primary school
<ogra> but yes, there is also a virus scanner available...
<gooseuk> Is that preinstalled on the distro?
<ogra> (its not installed by default and not contained on the CD by default)
<gooseuk> I see, how would I get that then?
<ogra> that would need to get installed through synaptic, which offers you 16000 software packages for installation... among them also a virus scanner :)
<gooseuk> Great!
<gooseuk> How difficult is Synaptic to operate?
<ogra> there are screenshots, wait...
<mhz_family> piece of cake for my 9 year old son
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/SynapticHowto
<mhz_family> gooseuk: you search, you select, you install, you hav fun. No rebooting needed
<ogra> thats q 1 year old version in the shots, it has improved a lot UI wise
<gooseuk> I can't thank you all enough, this is great.
<gooseuk> You wouldn't happen to know how long it will be till I can down load the ISO of the OS?
<mhz_family> gooseuk: I installed ubuntu for my 9 year old son becaus ehis english is no good and because I wanted to have a partitioned harddisk. After installation, he is the only admin in that box :D
<ogra> gooseuk, the final isos are therealrady, just not mirrored until i did the fnal test on powerpc
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<ogra> ^^^ thats waht we'll release today... the iso's will only get renamed
<gooseuk> Does the system include Samba?
<mhz_family> gooseuk: once you have edubuntu installed and running (about 1 hour in a 600 MHz celeron) it is all piece of cake for mac users (my wife) and MS, as well (my son)
<ogra> yup
<mhz_family> gooseuk: and if you happen to have issues during install (murphy!), we'll always be here :D
<gooseuk> Can I set up one user account without password to automatically log on as?
<mhz_family> or someone will
<ogra> yup you can do that
<mhz_family> or someone will not recommend it
<mhz_family> or = and
<gooseuk> Folks, you might just get sick of seeing me around lol :) Myself and another IT student are setting up a LINUX OS for a primary school so we will be installing the OS on about 20/30 systems as a trial and then more if it works out well
<mhz_family> gooseku, basically, on a linux box you can do "everything" and more things you normally can't in a non-unix system
<mhz_family> gooseuk: if you decide to install Edubuntu, you dont need to install on 20/30 machines, just one!
<ogra> gooseuk, go ahead, answering questions is our addiction ) 
<mhz_family> :)
<mhz_family> use the best machine around for server and the rest will boot from the server, to use the whole system
<ogra> mhz_family, depends... if he has the HW around it would be a great waste to use ltsp 
<gooseuk> Great, is there a Linux internet filter that I could install on the clients?
<mhz_family> well, that true, ogra
<mhz_family> yes
<mhz_family> many
<mhz_family> many ways, I mean
<gooseuk> Would you have any names for it?
<ogra> you can install a proxy server i'd go for a centralized solution for such stuff...
<mhz_family> Squid
<gooseuk> See Networking Linux is an Issue for me, I wouldn't know where to start to be honest
<ogra> i.e. having one machine acting as the proxy for the whole network makes more sense than having them locally everywhere
<mhz_family> gooseuk: however, when we talk about "admin" solutions we usually prefer the "ugly" way solution (command line)
<mhz_family> :)
<ogra> gooseuk, dont worry, we're here
<ogra> mhz_family, not true
<mhz_family> hehehe
<ogra> i prefer the gui solution where appropriate
<mhz_family> ogra: true for we "usually"
<gooseuk> gui all the way if possible lol
<mhz_family> gooseuk: ogra, then GUI like WebMin could work
<ogra> mhz_family, my favorite doing is gui developent... if i dont use the gui, i dont see the drawbacks that should get solved :)
<mhz_family> gooseuk: look up "webmin", for example
<gooseuk> Is there any guides that would assist me with setting up a small network with proxy?
<mhz_family> ogra: hehehehhe
<mhz_family> yes, many
<mhz_family> many places, too
<mhz_family> www.tldp.org
<ogra> we have a cookbook for ltsp servers, some stuff in there is quite common...
<gooseuk> Could you direct me to a simple website?
<mhz_family> and ubuntu sites
<gooseuk> Grand
<gooseuk> So I can install the Server machine with webmin and then control the other client machines with ease?
<mhz_family> gooseuk: the linux ways always counts on at least 2 parts: 1) Read doc, try stuff I am learning by reading, ask questions after trying.  2) Hire professionals for specific tasks while I start reading and start trying :)
<mhz_family> 2 parts = 2 alternatives
<ogra> mhz_family, both we want tzo avoid in edubuntu ;)
<ajmitch_> ogra: I agree, I try & do less via the command line now :)
<gooseuk> ::nods:: I just got a small libary of linux books. At present the reason for the switch from windows to linux is because of a lack of funding so sadly 2 is out :/ 
<mhz_family> gooseuk: hmmm, you can install edubuntu, then install WebMin for other tasks related to network admin. LTSP does not need much of setting as everything is done by install process
<ogra> i agree with eric raymond if he says a software that requires you to read the manual is broken
<mhz_family> hehehehe
<mhz_family> yes, software may be kept simple
<mhz_family> but when you do need to "tweak" or "hack" then I still think command line is way faster and provides more info
<ajmitch_> mhz_family: sure, and I've been using the command line for a number of years now :)
<ogra> mhz_family, the target should be that there is no need to tweak or hack at all :)
<mhz_family> example: after stting network... ping www.google.com in a teminal is just lovely!!
<ajmitch_> mhz_family: but I'm *lazy* :)
<gooseuk> Can I download the version in the next hour or so? Will it be stable also?
<ogra> gooseuk, you can download it now, it is stable and wont change...
<ogra> (except you use powerpc (mac) thats still in testing)
<gooseuk> Nope, they are RM Nimbus Systems
<mhz_family> ogra: yes, I agree on "no need to hack", really. My only point is that IF you insist on changing stuff, i do prefer command line
<ogra> gooseuk, as i said, grab this one.. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> mhz_family, if i develop stuff, i cant get around a editor... sure :)
<mhz_family> ogra: and if you happen to use an old pc, Maybe, GUI's don't work out of the box :)
<ogra> thats true...
<gooseuk> Downloading now
<ogra> but HW of this age is something i dont have around anymore...
<mhz_family> lol!
<ogra> i donate such stuff to people who need it :)
<gooseuk> I was wondering if I could ask for one of your email addresses if I really do hit a brick wall with the OS?
<ogra> gooseuk, we have a mailing list :)
<mhz_family> ogra: in countries like Chile and Latinamerica, old HW is sooooooooo the reality here
<gooseuk> Great, do you have the address
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunity
<gooseuk> HW?
<ogra> hardware
<mhz_family> gooseuk: Hardware
<gooseuk> lol I see
<ogra> :)
<gooseuk> If I may ask, are you the developers of this OS?
<ogra> yup
<mhz_family> gooseuk: in linux, most common surces of knowledge are: Wikis or Webs, IRC, Mailing Lists
<mhz_family> gooseuk: not me, just a volunteer to test and some docs, and last cd labels
<Yagisan> and some of the testers
<mhz_family> Yagisan: hi there
<gooseuk> ::nods:: I have gotten a few books etc I have played with Mandrake and Xandros, but again my knowledge is limited
<mhz_family> sorry i hadnt seen ya
<Yagisan> mhz_family: G'day
<mhz_family> gooseuk: we all started one day, the difference is that some people never stop learning and invetigating. Others just quit. If you never stop, you may always have the chance to get wiser than all of us together :D
* ajmitch_ isn't an edubuntu developer, just someone who spends too much time on irc in here :)
<gooseuk> lol Well I would say, just expect some "OH DEAR GOD HELP..." Emails from me in the next few months while setting up and testing the network :)
<Yagisan> gooseuk: hardly - you'll be impressed at how easy they made this
<mhz_family> no problem, just keep in mind diversity of opinions and dont take any opinions "personal". we all give opinions and you decide
<Yagisan> gooseuk: they are trying to put support personal out of business :-P
<gooseuk> Don't worry, just as long as you folks are honest with me, I don't care, its the school I am setting it up for, so I can take some buiseing ;)
<ogra> Yagisan, you dont happen to have a ppc and a lot of bandwith around currently ? 
<ogra> missing ppc test is holding up the release currently
<gooseuk> You use knome for the GUI on this OS?
<Yagisan> ogra: sorry ogra - I've tried with qemu but it's not at the stage I can use it to implement stage 2 of multi-client-arch
* mhz_family slaps himself because he had 3 imacs he now does not have and also, he reduced the bandwithd costs and velocity :(
<mhz_family> gooseuk: yes, GNOME
<ogra> Yagisan, i'm not talking about nifty hacks, just a install test o the iso :)
<ogra> *of
<gooseuk> Ok, thank you.
<Yagisan> ogra: qemu-ppc can't even run bash - it won't install
<ogra> oh, ok
<Yagisan> ogra: at least no yet - it only goes for simple things like ls
<Yagisan> I tried to get some ppc machines off ebay - but I lack the funds to win the auctions
<ogra> heh,ok ... so we'll have to wait.. until my iso finishes downloading...
<gooseuk> What education programs are installed on the system?
<ogra> ETA 6h
<Yagisan> ogra: why so slow ?
* mhz_family making last phone call to get PPC
<ogra> gooseuk, gcompris, most of kdeedu some educational games like glife or atomix blender (rather advanced 3d modeler) dia for diagram editing and the sandard ubuntu desktop
<ogra> i'm sure i forgot a bunch
<ogra> Yagisan, the servers are slashdotted
<ogra> i get only 20K here
<ogra> and i cant rsync since i had no ppc iso around before
<gooseuk> Does it include the full version of Openoffice 2?
<ogra> yup
<gooseuk> Also, can I remove Application options for different users or user groups, the reason I ask is that I see the "Add Application" option in the program list
<ogra> thats all stuff we get from ubuntu... everything contained in the ubuntu desktop is there anyway
<ogra> by default onyl your first created user is allowed to use the tool :) others would need to be added to the admin group...
<ogra> so you can avid that they use the tool :)
<ogra> *avoid
<gooseuk> Great, so only the admin user will see that option? what about the system tools?
* Yagisan is glad he mirrored i386 amd amd64 breezy last night
<ogra> gooseuk, sadly the change in the menu didnt get applied fast enough for release, they will see it, but cant use it..
<ogra> (its a bit ugly, but only consmetic...)
<ogra> gooseuk, but for all system tools the same applies :)
<gooseuk> That isn't a problem, children have a habit of messing up a system with ease
<ogra> heh, yes
<gooseuk> Ok, one thing I really don't have a clue about would be setting up a server so that I can make changes from the server, user names, internet filter etc Is there a good help guide out there that is easy to follow etc?
<mhz_family> bad news from here: no ppc available for install and no real fast connection for downloading now
<mhz_family> ogra: did you you see CD labels?
<Yagisan> ogra: no torrents for ppc ?
<mhz_family> gooseuk: yes, with GUI's
<mhz_family> :)
<mhz_family> gooseuk: my best advice is 1st download, 2nd install, 3rd we help you
<ogra> mhz_family, not yet, no
<mhz_family> ok
* mhz_family BB in 3 hours
<ogra> Yagisan, not before release
<ogra> dailys dont get seeded
<ogra> but it seems Kamion just started to test ppc
<gooseuk> ::Nods:: I apologise, just trying to get as much answered as I can, am going to do a dual boot in today hopefully on my personal machine for testing
<gooseuk> Do you have a live CD version of edubuntu
<mhz_family> nop
<ogra> nope, sadly not ... next release :)
<Yagisan> ogra: I guess the lesson is - only provide links to the torrents for slashdot next time
<gooseuk> Great, can I lock out the "System" menu bar from the student account as well?
<Yagisan> ogra: and have the torrents ready first :)
<ogra> Yagisan, we didnt release yet
<ogra> there shouldnt be anything on /. about us
<mhz_family> gooseuk: yes, LTSP is just a way to see and work on the server remotely
<Yagisan> ogra: ah - but ubuntu did - and you use the same infrastructure
<ogra> true
<JaneW> ogra: how's it looking?
<ogra> JaneW, amd64, i386 are gold ...
<ogra> Kamion just told me he started a ppc test
<Yagisan> I was surprised - I ran apt-get update and I had nothing to download today
<ogra> so it looks quite good over all
<JaneW> ogra: awesome
* JaneW hugs ogra
<JaneW> you are a star
<JaneW> to vent my nervous energy ....
<ogra> JaneW, but i need more hardware next time... i could have been done yesterday evening
* JaneW just produced what is probably the world's first edubuntu cake
<ogra> its only the testing that holds up everything and i'm lacking 2 of 3 arches
<JaneW> ogra: yes let's raise that, you do need more testing equipment
<Yagisan> ogra: It looks like you have done well - want to fix qemu now so you can do some testing :)
<gooseuk> Thanks for all your help folks, I am just going to hang here while I do some read if thats ok?
<ogra> i also need HW for the ltsp suff for next release
<Yagisan> gooseuk: sure
<Yagisan> ogra - I find ebay is helpful for that - but I thought you basically lived in a pc shop
<ogra> JaneW, see #c 
<ogra> JaneW, dont put "Announcing" in the subject line to please jdub ;)
<ogra> Yagisan, PC, yes.... SGI, yes.... amd64 (only laptop with broken dvd)
<gooseuk> Oh, erm one final question, do you have Gaelic version?
<ogra> the only powerpc available here is the one of my GF... but this machine is her company, job etc... i cant install on it
<ogra> gooseuk, i think so...
<ogra> gooseuk, http://launchpad.net/ can show you the translation status
<JaneW> ogra: just plian 'Edbuntu 5.10 release' then?
<Yagisan> ogra: dd if=/dev/ppc-disk of=/home/ogra/gfppc.img :-D then enjoy for a few hours - when she's back dd if=/home/ogra/gfppc.img of=/dev/ppc-disk
<gooseuk> Erm how would I search if you have a Gaelic Language version?
<Yagisan> ogra: I do that to other peoples pc's all the time
<ogra> what about something fresh "The first Edubuntu release (5.10) has seen the light today"
<ogra> or was born ... or something similar
<ogra> Yagisan, i wont risk her job for my testig ;) 
<ogra> i'll buy a new HD and replace it ...
<ogra> (still have a long night with DVD tests ahead) 
<Yagisan> ogra - fair enough
<Yagisan> Time to deploy my mult-client-arch systems now
<JaneW> highvoltage: PING
<ogra> JaneW, btw, the wiki change was very odd... its gotten darn slow, the css only works partially and we'll have to prefix all our pages with Edubuntu now...
<ogra> i'm not really convinced by it...
<JaneW> ogra: I don;t have a problem with the prefix... what's css?
<ogra> JaneW, the theme
<ogra> if you are logged in you always have the same theme... i want to visually see ifi'm on the edubuntu or ubuntu wiki... that doesnt work...
<highvoltage> JaneW: pong
<ogra> JaneW, but thats only a bug that can be solved... what we cant solve is that we get all the crappy content from the ubuntu wiki into edubuntu
<highvoltage> ogra: i feel the same way, it seems to make more sense having the wiki's seperate
<JaneW> highvoltage: http://www.flickr.com/photos/13916877@N00/52139491/
<JaneW> highvoltage: I did it ;)
<jsgotangco> wiki?
<JaneW> highvoltage: nervous energy ;)
<jsgotangco> TOLD YOU SO =)
<highvoltage> JaneW: the css is the styles (themes) that's applied to the wiki pages. those subpages that were so ugly, that's a css problem
<JaneW> highvoltage: oh yes, that SUCKED big time
<JaneW> can it be fixed?
<highvoltage> JaneW: nice cake!
<highvoltage> JaneW++
<JaneW> :))
<ogra> JaneW, it will, its a bug... 
<ogra> JaneW, i'm more concerned that i have no edubuntu css a all
<ogra> s/a/at
<ajmitch_> hm
<ajmitch_> why am I still awake? :)
<ogra> ajmitch_, good question
<ajmitch_> 3:30AM here again
<JaneW> highvoltage: the logo's not perfect, but hey it was a rush job...
<highvoltage> still nice. have you sent the link to chmj?
<JaneW> good idea
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: you love the pain
<ajmitch_> yes
<ajmitch_> JaneW: lovely cake!
* ajmitch_ is hungry :)
<ajmitch_> that needs to go on the fridge
<ogra> it will go on planet :) 
<jsgotangco> errr
<ogra> but not before release.... i dont wnat to risk our luck
<JaneW> agreed
<Yagisan> so what did it taste like ?
* ajmitch_ wouldn't mind edubuntu cake at UBZ :)
<JaneW> Yagisan: I finished it like 10 mins ago - no one has eaten any yet
<jsgotangco> ajmitch_: go to sleep hardcore
<JaneW> ajmitch_: get me access to the kitchen...?
<ajmitch_> jsgotangco: hah
* Yagisan feels like eating cake now
* ogra pokes Yagisan 
<ogra> hey...
<jsgotangco> when are we announcing release?
<ogra> jsgotangco, if we have one
<ogra> waiting on ppc tests
<JaneW> jsgotangco: when all the testing's finished and 'signed-off'
* mhz_family insists that the probelm is not having the wikis merged, it's just the way it is organized
* mhz_family insists that the probelm is not having the wikis merged, it's just the way it is organized and used
<jsgotangco> mhz_family: no
<mhz_family> hhehehe
<mhz_family> jsgotangco: no
<ogra> mhz_family, as long as my css doesnt cange dynamically (which is impossible imho) its useless for me to have a edubuntu css at all
<jsgotangco> mhz_family: its hard enough to navigate between ubuntu and kubuntu wikis, as well as the udu wikis
<highvoltage> JaneW: we should send that cake pics to fridge :)
<ogra> no premature actions please
<mhz_family> ogra: could'nt CSS be called from Templates?
<jsgotangco> post it to planet later and beat the fridge pics heh
<ogra> ppc was never tested by anyone... it still can totally break
* Yagisan pokes ogra back. murmurs we should taste it - just to make sure it's ok ;)
<ogra> jsgotangco, i'll blog it after the announcement is out
* jsgotangco doesn't have a ppc
<ogra> but currently i'm just praying
<jsgotangco> only amd64 and x86
<mhz_family> ogra: afaik using templates for each *buntu flavour would do the trick
* ajmitch_ is still trying to rsync :(
<ogra> mhz_family, even for logged in users ? 
<mhz_family> for everyone, out or in
<ajmitch_> 11% now
<mhz_family> ogra: PageTemplate is something both users can see
<mhz_family> (as long as there are no ACL that forbids it)
<ogra> mhz_family, could you discuss that with hno ? i'd really like to get that solved...
<ogra> it doesnt fix the content problem though
<mhz_family> yes, as soon as my wife lets me sit back at the computer
<mhz_family> :D
<mhz_family> ogra: I agree. Content is a bit diff
<ogra> unsolvable...
<mhz_family> but I think it is possiblew to figure out a way
<ogra> i dont think so... the content is the same on both wikis
<ogra> JaneW, most odd https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunity
<ogra> https redirects to launchpad 
<ogra> thats a elmo/znarl thing i guess
<mhz_family> that's why i said to jsgotangco that i think it has not been well organized on wiki basis
<mhz_family> wikis need a bit diff approach from regular CMS or web sites
<ogra> damned, seems Kamion is asleep now...
<ogra> not that he wouldnt deserve it
<jsgotangco> mhz_family: you can try asking elmo for acls..but that's a different story and good luck
<mhz_family> lol
<highvoltage> oooh. python cgi error screen.
<ogra> 35% [++++++++++++>                        ]  251,258,304   28.43K/s  ETA 4:45:32
<ogra> :(
<highvoltage> :(
<ajmitch_>     85363992  12%    8.29kB/s   20:35:30
<ajmitch_> hardly better
<mhz_family> jsgotangco: i know is difficult but we'll never know if it is possible to solve it if we don't try to. and to do so, yes, we need more access to do the tests.
<ajmitch_> night all :)
<ogra> yes... 
<ogra> night ajmitch_ thanks for all :)
<jsgotangco> mhz_family: good luck
<highvoltage> what's going on with the wiki!?
<gooseuk> Folks, is the default system best for the client work stations or should I install the workstation version?
<mhz_family> jsgotangco: you think he'll disagree?
<jsgotangco> you can try
<mhz_family> LOL!!!
<Yagisan> gooseuk - are the clients thin clients ?
<mhz_family> .oO(so you think so)
<gooseuk> Thin Client?
<ogra> Yagisan, nope
<ogra> gooseuk, i think you want a workstatin install
<gooseuk> Alright thank you
<jsgotangco> gooseuk: on boot type workstation then press enter
<jsgotangco> it won't install the server components
<gooseuk> Grand
* Yagisan wonders if it's such a good idea to be poking a screwdriver into a powered up pc
* ogra will change the term "server" to minimal next release... its to confusing
<ogra> Yagisan, depends where you poke :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: yeah default install is a server anyways =)
<ogra> you shouldnt do it in the power supply :) the rest only hurts the pc
<ogra> jsgotangco, exactly :)
<Yagisan> ogra - It's all fine so fa bzzzzzzzzz - snap - crackle - pop ....
<ogra> hehe
<Yagisan> ogra- have you had a chance to test my multi-client-arch patch ?
<ogra> not yet... but will be the first i'm doing next week...
<ogra> we got open development again, yay \o/
<gooseuk> How long would it take for you folks to get a Live CD version out?
<jsgotangco> im going to aim for packaging for dapper...
<ogra> gooseuk, planned for the next release (in april)
<gooseuk> Great, is there a live CD version for your other projects?
<jsgotangco> other projects?
<jsgotangco> Ubuntu has live cd
<jsgotangco> along with kubuntu
<jsgotangco> for all archs
<gooseuk> Great, the school wants to provide a live CD for students to take home to use on their system
<highvoltage> JaneW: is this your son? http://www.flickr.com/photos/13916877@N00/48973688/
<JaneW> highvoltage: LOL yes
<JaneW> highvoltage: that's 1of2
<JaneW> highvoltage: what makes it more funny is he had no idea what he was doing
<JaneW> he cut his finger (on a brandy bottle - don't ask) and I asked him to show me where it was cut...
<jsgotangco> JaneW: bad mommy
<JaneW> ogra: can you gauge the PPC testing progress and ETA? Think we'll make it while it's still Oct 13th?
<ogra> JaneW, no idea... i'm just watching te DL and am frustrated here
<ogra> ETA says 5:11
<JaneW> ogra: gosh... you must be TIRED too
<ogra> but first i have to spend some 100 euros for hardware..
<highvoltage> JaneW: lol
<ogra> JaneW, that too... but more disappointed that nobody of our devs with ppc helps out
<jsgotangco> sad
<highvoltage> JaneW: we should use that picture for the next edubuntu wallpaper. just a pity he's white. some people might have a problem with it :P
<ogra> JaneW, for me its an 8 h downlod because i dont have the iso yet... all ppc testers have the iso already, rsancing is done in less than 30min
<ogra> *rsyncing
<JaneW> highvoltage: lol
<ogra> JaneW, and we have plenty of ppc users in the team
<jsgotangco> yeah a lot of them do
<JaneW> ogra: why won't they help?
<jsgotangco> no interest really
<jsgotangco> or think its more work
<ogra> JaneW, no idea, i wont poke anyone directly... and only kamion spoke up when i asked
<jsgotangco> ogra: you're the only one testing the dvd as well?
<ogra> but i think he fell asleep after more than 50h work in a row
<ogra> jsgotangco, thats something i have to sort now... going to buy a ppc (if i can get one and even if i only need it for 2h testing) and a new DVD writer
<ogra> jsgotangco, but yes, i'm the one who tests them
<ogra> note they are not really time critical... the CDs are
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> :(
* jsgotangco feels helpless
* highvoltage too
<ogra> as i do... since more than 30h
* highvoltage will buy a ppc for the next release
<ogra> heh
* jsgotangco wish he could afford one soon
<jsgotangco> its just sooo expensive here
<highvoltage> we get the mac mini here for about R5000
<ogra> JaneW, i'll drive to town now (80km) to see what i can get HW wise, if Kamion shows up on -devel and says the ppc installs passed, feel free to send the announcement...
<highvoltage> that's about US$769
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: that's a lot of money on my part
<highvoltage> for me too.
<ogra> for me too
<jsgotangco> i just can't afford it atm
<highvoltage> it's not expensive, but then again, it's almost a months salary
<ogra> but do i have a choice ? 
<jsgotangco> can you reimburse that?
<JaneW> ogra: have you asked for funded h/w?
<ogra> JaneW, nope
<JaneW> ogra: you should
<ogra> JaneW, i'll do that at UBZ
<highvoltage> ogra: i really think you should be able to claim back for it. i think you'll gain lots of value from it and it will ultimately benefit Ubuntu and Canonical
<ogra> wont help me now
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> highvoltage, i dont think sabdfl will object, but i need it *now*
<highvoltage> yep. *sigh*
<highvoltage> what are you going to buy?
<jsgotangco> buy a mac mini at least
<jsgotangco> or an emac
<ogra> and since he's not here in my living room, he cant give it to me right away
<jsgotangco> theres plenty of macs here but lack of money heh
<ogra> jsgotangco, probably only a HD and ill abuse my GFs workplace... but i'd like to avoid that
<jsgotangco> ah so your gf has a ppc
<highvoltage> she should be running ubuntu already ;)
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> highvoltage, no quar Xpress this machine is her company...
<highvoltage> ok.
<ogra> and i fear to damage it
<ogra> could make her jobless
<JaneW> ogra: shall I send you the announcement so you can send it out?
<gooseuk> Hey, do you have a gif that I could have of your Edubuntu logo, so I can create a wallpaper?
<JaneW> gif!?
<JaneW> yes I do
<JaneW> RGB or CYMK?
<gooseuk> both if possible
<gooseuk> Could you email them to me?
<gooseuk> cmdr_gooseuk@yahoo.co.uk
<JaneW> oops I only have RGB gif
<highvoltage> JaneW: what's wrong with that?
* highvoltage catches up.. ok
<JaneW> gooseuk: on it's way
<JaneW> gooseuk: I found a 'web clear' version too
<gooseuk> That would be great as well
<jsgotangco> heh i was looking at the local apple website and the cost of a powerbook is like buying a 2nd hand car
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: what do they cost there?
<jsgotangco> $1 USD = 56 Philippine Pesos
<JaneW> ogra: release announceent on it's way to you...
<jsgotangco> around $3,000
<jsgotangco> the cost of an XServe is almost the same as that of my car i bought last year...
<gooseuk> Is it easy to change the Icons in Edubuntu?
<highvoltage> geez, so it's about 168000 pessos.
<highvoltage> Pesos evenb
<highvoltage> even even
<highvoltage> gooseuk: you can change the icon set under preferences under system.
<highvoltage> system -> preferences -> theme
<gooseuk> Great thank you
<jimcooncat> sorry, I don't see anywhere. Do we have an official release yet? 
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: yup the car i bought last year (brand new form Kia) was 375,000
<Knelix> Hello.
<jsgotangco> hi
<Knelix> Was wondering if ShipIt could provide Edubuntu CDs as well.
<jsgotangco> Knelix: nope but stay tuned for it
<Knelix> k. Any rough timeframe?
<jsgotangco> we can't say at the moment
<jsgotangco> but it'll come =)
<Knelix> I have a class-- Introduction to Educational Technology-- which is disgustingly heavily focused on Microsoft software, but the teacher is receptive to alternatives and has allowed me to speak about Open-Source, which incredibly, is not even covered in the course. I have mentioned Ubuntu and Edubuntu to the class, and will be doing my software presentation on Celestia. Most of the students in the class, future teachers, have no idea wh
<Knelix> I want to give everyone in the class a copy of Ubuntu to try out, and maybe then at least they'll remember something about alternatives. Copies of Edubuntu would be great, but I don't have the time to make so many CDs (I only have one burner), and I think the packaged CDs probably look a lot more "official" and "professional", and will make a better impression (which is important in the class) than my burned CDs.
<Knelix> Our semester ends in December.
<Knelix> So, I guess I'll just distribute the regular version now.
<jsgotangco> we'll have a limited print run but you can ask JaneW for details on it
<gooseuk> Knelix: If I may ask, what is Celestia
<Knelix> http://www.shatters.net/celestia/
<Knelix> It's a space simulator.
<Knelix> "planetarium softwar"
<Knelix> -e
<Knelix> We're supposed to pick one piece of educational software, so I chose Celestia. 
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> that's an awesome app
<jsgotangco> when i show it to people they are just amazed at it
* JaneW will be afk for a bit
<jsgotangco> im going to sleep =)
<jsgotangco> good night
<gooseuk> Erm what is a SVG file?
<mhz_away> re for 3mins
<mhz_away> :)
<mhz_away> JaneW: did you see them? (cd stuff)
<JaneW> mhz_away: yes, and I mostly like them, very nice! I do have one or 2 comments (can we discuss tomorrow when things are less hectic?)
* JaneW is needing to leave in 5 mins
<JaneW> ogra: I am going out for a bit and will pop in between 10:30-11pm ok?
<mhz_away> np
<enyc> meep ;-)
* enyc throws 0000s at ogra ;-)
<sensei_> hi
<sensei_> would it be possible to implement LTSP with only one LAN card in the server?
<ogra> sensei_, yes
<mhz_away> sensei_: ahaikm\, you'd need eth: and eth:1 etc
<mhz_away> sensei_: afaik, you'd need eth: and eth:1 etc
<mhz_away> sorry
<mhz_away> sensei_: afaik, you'd need eth:0 and eth:1 etc
<ogra> mhz_away, what for ? 
<ogra> you can do everything in one network, thats how i do it here
<mhz_away> ogra: I thought he'd need :0 for eb and :1 for local net?
<mhz_away> ogra: I thought he'd need :0 for web and :1 for local net?
<ogra> only if you do strange things like running two networks on the same HW layer
<ogra> but you dont need that a all
<mhz_away> hmmm, that's what i do here :)
<sensei_> i didnt understand you both
<ogra> sensei_, just install edubuntu and follow the http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<ogra> it exactly designed for that
<ogra> *its
<ogra> grab the CD from here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<sensei_> thats the lastest version? oh
<ogra> yup
<ogra> we'll release it in 1-2h
<sensei_> ok thanks
<sensei_> more power
<ogra> :)
<sensei_> oh one more thing, what do you suggest for restricting users? limited applications, folders, locking desktop etc... ala kiosk
<sensei_> ^_^
<ogra> sabayon, but you can use it currently only directly on the server, doesnt work through ltsp...
<sensei_> oh
<ogra> it has a bug... i would like to include it in the next release by default, but it needs some love
<sensei_> ahh
<sensei_> i'm going to download the latest iso to another cpu... bye thanks a lot. i really appreciate your help ^_^
<ogra> sensei_, youre welcome :)
<ogra> JaneW, ppc is broken due to a silly bug in ltsp :/
<ogra> ok, looks like we have a release out there... 
<ogra> no ppc though :/
<gooseuk> Anyone around for a few questions
<enyc> maybe
<gooseuk> Its help with a network layout question for edubuntu
<enyc> goos trying to setup a ltsp-setup  ?
<gooseuk> I have 9 clients, 1 server, 1 hub and 1 modem. Can I hook the server and clients to the hub and then the modem, then run a web filter proxy on the server
<enyc> afaik  filtering not includu in edubunut yet
<gooseuk> Yeah I am going to download squid
<enyc> i know squidguard etc. can be done
<gooseuk> but its mainly the setup of the network, will it work in that configuation?
<enyc> i dont know what you mean by '' server exactly ''
<enyc> i dont know what you mean by ''server'' exactly
<gooseuk> Well I want to run a mail server and configuation system for the other clients running edubuntu
<enyc> can work allsorts of ways...
* enyc yawns
<gooseuk> Can you control the clients from the server client?
<gooseuk> the server will be running edubunut
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | First official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Oct 19 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | NEXT MEETING:  Oct 19 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<enyc> goos: iirc that osrt of thing is '' teachers pet ''  tool ?
<gooseuk> I don't understand what you mean by that?
<enyc> ogra will probably know.....
<ogra> enyc, thats only a spec for now
<enyc> goos: iirc '' teachers pet ''  is name of appropriate tool  or something....
<enyc> aah ok
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/TeachersPet
<enyc> idea for breezy maybe ;/)
<ogra> we'll have the basic version ready in the next release and i will make a backport for breezy available
<enyc> thx ;-)
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/SCP.png
<ogra> a screenshot from a very early version
<enyc> im ohpng   edubuntu will od well for computer in daycare-nurseries' chilren-usage-computer...
<enyc> with mjch better programset than unmentionable oswith a pair of commercial small games....
<enyc> definitely worth a go ;-)
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuScreenShots :)
<enyc> ,umm...
<gooseuk> Erm question
<enyc> i think ogra has been havinga muddle/faff sorting out this release
<ogra> yes, it was hard... but its born :-D
<gooseuk> Can I lock out a number of menus from the students?
<gooseuk> eg settings that would envolve changing core system settings
<ogra> gooseuk, you can do that with sabayon, it enables you to create user profiles
<ogra> no need to break the system settings ;)
<gooseuk> sabayon?
<ogra> just create a profile fr a certain usergroup
<gooseuk> erm, Ok is there a guide to do that 
<ogra> yes... its a tool to manage such stuff like presettings and menu structures in profiles ...
<gooseuk> Great
<ogra> we dont have it in the default install, you need to instll it afterwards
<gooseuk> Can I run it from the server to update the clients or change settings on the client machine
<enyc> thanks for the release, ogra  and hereby unmentioned contributors ;-)
<ogra> we didnt include it because you cant run it through ltsp on a client yet, but you can run it on the server without problems...
<ogra> enyc, there were not many , but a lot of fellow testers without their feedback i'd have been lost :)
<gooseuk> What is Ltsp, I keep hearing that
<enyc> linux terminal server project
<ogra> imagine you got a big server that has the capability to attach a number of displays, mice and keyboards 
<enyc> now included in breezy
<gooseuk> Ok...
<ogra> you dont need hardware for every workplace, only displays and input devices...
<gooseuk> So basically for me it isn't worth running a server as I can't control or change client systems remotely?
<ogra> you can do all settings on the server, its easier to keep software and settings consistent
<JaneW> back
<enyc> i must play with this.... later ;p
<JaneW> ogra: RELEASED!?
<ajmitch_> wb JaneW 
<JaneW> YAY!
<ogra> JaneW, announcement is out, waiting for moderation... 
<JaneW> ogra: I got it
<JaneW> must be moderated...
<ogra> JaneW, see backlog ...
<ajmitch_> congrats to all, especially ogra :)
<ogra> JaneW, we have lost one arch due to a silly bug :(
<JaneW> oh unless I have the edubuntu-devel copy
<ogra> ajmitch_, thanks a lot, it was a heavy birth
<gooseuk> The problem is that primary school kids would mess with settings
* JaneW *hugs* ogra
<JaneW> WELL DONE
<ajmitch_> ogra: worth it though
* ogra hugs JaneW 
<ajmitch_> you deserve tp be proud of your new baby
<ogra> YOU TOO
<enyc> btw
<gooseuk> Teachers need access to all the software etc
<ogra> ajmitch_, i'm just slowly realizing ....
<JaneW> ogra: did you update the wiki pages to remove PPC?
<gooseuk> and settings
<ogra> JaneW, sure
<JaneW> the wiki releasenotes, and announcement etc?
<ogra> JaneW, yep
* JaneW is impressed
<ogra> ah, moment we have separae rel. notes ? 
<gooseuk> How do I set up user groups too?
<ogra> gooseuk, with the user and groups tool :)
<enyc> after looking at the  hoary   upgraded-to-breezy-and-had-edubuntu-base'  added machine .....
<gooseuk> Well I will basically need to set up 3 user groups, Students - Teachers - Admin
<JaneW> ogra: should we mention the PPC problem in the Know issues list in http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes?
<gooseuk> can I customise menu layouts for each user group?
<ogra> JaneW, i was thinking about that... lets see if questions come...
<enyc>  i found that starting 'tuxpaint' from menu sound-fails
<ogra> enyc, fiel a bug, assign to ogra@ubuntu.com :)
<ogra> *file even
<ogra> gooseuk, yes, as i said with sabayon :)
<gooseuk> So Sabayon is a user control program?
<JaneW> ogra: ok
<enyc> but.... starting apparently the same command from terminal not work
<enyc> err,  DOES work even
<JaneW> ogra: GAH it;s mentioned on our front page http://www.edubuntu.org/...
<JaneW> is anyone with edit rights aroung?
<JaneW> s/g/d
<ogra> JaneW, only highvoltage afaik
<enyc> ill try on actual-edubuntu install all-the-same
<JaneW> ogra: ok we must ask highvoltage to edit that out as soon as we see him tomorrow
<gooseuk> Another thing? Is there a way to create a custom file so I don't have to set up each computer one by one?
<ogra> JaneW, yup
<enyc> im still slow at my dvorak layout ;-(
<ogra> gooseuk, ubuntu/edubuntu suports kickstart, read about that ;) 
<ogra> gooseuk, it has an easy GUI to set up such a file that the installer reads to set the system defaults
<enyc> 0000
<ogra> enyc, ktouch helps :)
<gooseuk> Ok what what is kickstart?
<enyc> im just puzzled why starting from menu behaves differently...
<enyc> envirnment vars ??
<ogra> gooseuk, i just described it above :)
<ogra> enyc, look with the menu editor 
<gooseuk> Kickstart is the program that allows me to create a file with variables so that I don't need to set up each client on its own
<ogra> yes
<gooseuk> Does that include Usernames and groups?
<ogra> the installer reads this variables on install and you can also set user and groupnames afaik...
* enyc remembers **rediclous** path mess on solaris  and cde   window mgr/menu....
<ogra> i never actually used it, thats why i said you should read up about it :)
<enyc> that was really silly ;p
<ogra> heh
<gooseuk> Oh, ok erm its on your wiki right?
<enyc> stuff like   /opt/gnome-1.4/libs/
<enyc> rather longer  lib paths etc... i cant remember
<enyc> rgra:  the menu item just runs 'tuxpaint' ;p
<enyc> am i supposed to do something clever with menuedit  ??
<ogra> gooseuk, i think its rather documented on redhats pages anywhere, they developed it
* enyc yawns
<ogra> enyc, edit your menu ? 
<ogra> enyc, there you can see the command that is run, look if they're the same
<enyc> they are
<enyc> its just 'tuxpaint'
<gooseuk> Is kickstart installed or included in the default package?
<enyc> no parms/opts
<ogra> gooseuk, its on the CD but not installed, its to specific to be installed by default, not everybody needs such a tool
<enyc> anyway i can write a bugreport  when ive retested this on a plain edubuntu 5.10-release install ;-)
<mhz> re
<gooseuk> ::nods:: I understand, I can install it through the install program?
<ogra> enyc, i didnt change anything on tuxpaint, so it will be the same behavior
<enyc> kk
<enyc> but ive upgraded through testing breezy etc....
<ogra> hmm, while we talk about upgrading...
* ogra notes that his main work system is still in preview state 
<enyc> then installed 'edubuntu-base' whatever-it-was
<ogra> heh, 277 updates
<mhz> ogra: could we add an ubuntu rep. for spanish contact on release notes?
<mhz> enyc: what prob. are you having?
<mhz> gooseuk: what d'u mean
<ogra> mhz, not on release notes but we should have a page that shows local contacts if you need support
<ogra> gooseuk, yes
<enyc> mhz when started via menu gives no snd ;p
<enyc> mhz: tuxpaint when started via menu gives no snd ;p
<mhz> ok, in the meantime i'll start translating it and re-sending that to spanish ML I am subscribed to
<mhz> enyc: and sound does work on other apps?
<enyc> yes
<mhz> ogra: does elmo (or the person in charge of moin ACL) stick around this channel?
<enyc> also works when start same cmd from term
<mhz> hmmmm
<ogra> mhz, elmo is in #ubuntu-devel
<mhz> okidoki
<ogra> he doesnt hang around here usually
<enyc> i mean snd works when start manually
<enyc> env  vars different [?] 
* JaneW is off to bed
<ogra> night JaneW 
<JaneW> ogra: I hope you have planned some sleep for tonight?
<enyc> tuxpaint   uses   libsdl  btw
<JaneW> or some celebrating at least...
<mhz> ogra: is elmo a patient reasonable person or is he a stressed one?
<ogra> JaneW, the commmunity link needs fixage in the website ...
<JaneW> ogra: oh right, what does it need?
<ogra> JaneW,celebrating is planned for tomorrow, \sh comes
<mhz> enyc: weired, too much
<JaneW> ogra: glad to hear it, say hi from me
<enyc> ;-)
<ogra> JaneW, it points to Community, must change to EdubuntuCommunity
<ogra> JaneW, i'll do :)
<JaneW> I'll do it
<ogra> you have da power ? 
<mhz> super Jane!
<JaneW> er it's done isn't it?
<JaneW> check
<JaneW> I think highvoltage did it
<ogra> website works, wiki doesnt
<ogra> thats something hno must change
<ogra> the prob is that we cant keep the name...
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Community and http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Community point to the same page
<JaneW> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Community has a message saying it's moved to http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunity
<JaneW> community link on http://www.edubuntu.org/ points to http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunity
<JaneW> what's the problem?
<mhz> ogra: i think it is wiser to contact Henrik first and let him know my thought on how to calm the waters about wiki merging by modifying some stuff on the wiki server side. Then he'll tell me to direct to elmo or something. This way I'll not push the wrong way.
<mhz> or I'll avoid disturbing "the force"
<ogra> JaneW, yes, i asked for that
<ogra> JaneW, click on "Community" n the wiki
<ogra> *in
<ogra> the Community site must go, we share all content with ubuntu so http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Community points to the same site... if there is a Community page in the ubuntu wiki, ti must show ubuntu content
<ogra> oh, and this needs sorting too https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunity (launchpad wiki)
<JaneW> oic... it;s in the wiki skin... hno73 will have to fix that
<ogra> mhz, yes...
<ogra> JaneW, yup
<ogra> JaneW, now go to sleep... we can sort all this later ;)
<JaneW> ogra: DITTO :P
<ogra> :)
<ogra> will do now ...
<JaneW> ogra: at least it gives a non-broken page even if it's just a pointer page, so it's inelegant but not ugly
<mhz> lol
<mhz> yes
<JaneW> night then
<mhz> it is "politicaly correct" we'd say in Chile
<mhz> night super Jane
<ogra> JaneW, from a ubuntu POV its ugly ... if i want to read about the ubuntu community i dont expect such a page :)
<ogra> because i dont associate Community with edubuntu as ubuntu user :)
<mhz> right on that
<mhz> ogra: i translate ReleaseNotes and then can I add a link from eng. version to spanish one?
<ogra> yup
<mhz> if so, at the begining and the end? at the begining only?
<mwright1night> Hello
<mhz> hei
<mwright1night> There is no seeds on the 5.10 torrent
<mwright1night> Does edubuntu include Teachers pet?
<JaneW> mhz: night, promise to talk about your cool CD work tomorrow! Thanks again. Buenos noches(?)
<mwright1night> Can you run normal LTSP with edubuntu?
<mhz> buenas noches and i hope you dont dream of mr. Ed Ubuntu
<mhz> normal? mwright1night 
<ogra> i'm off as well... night all
<mhz> isn't it same protocol? mwright1night 
<mhz> ogra: please DO sleep well
<ogra> i'll try
<mhz> hehehe, need to if you plan to celebrate with her 2morrow
<ogra> mhz, normal == insecure X transport, breezy == ssh tunnel ...
<mwright1night> which protoocol?
<ogra> but now, night ...
<mwright1night> mhz: I don't understand what you're asking
<mhz> ogra: nite there!
<mwright1night> The torrent is the bittorrent protocol
<mwright1night> And there is no seed on the edubuntu torrent for 5.10
<ajmitch_> night ogra :)
<mhz> mwright1night: i meant about your "ltsp" question
<mwright1night> No it's not exactly the same
<mhz> mwright1night: you are right, this is ssh tunnel, therefore more secure
<mwright1night> This release of ubuntu has some limitations that core ltsp doesn't have, The next version of edubuntu won't have those limitations
<mwright1night> ssh tunnel?
<mwright1night> THe X server connection?
<mhz> now, mwright1night IMHO, i think that if the dhcp conf resides under /etc/ltsp/
<mwright1night> I've been using LTSP for a number of years 
<mhz> and other configs are under standard trees (/opt) you could basically manually re-do stuff as you wish
<mwright1night> The things that I am concerned don't work out of the box in edubuntu are local apps and the new local devices support won't be available until next release
<mhz> mwright1night: based on ogra's directions, this ltsp is running using ssh
<mwright1night> Do you know if "Teachers Pet" is included
<mwright1night> it is rewrite of Teacher Tool
<mhz> no idea, how would you call it from cmd line?
<mwright1night> don't know it's a rewrite of Teach2.py
<mwright1night> i think it is written as a gtk+ linked binary
<mhz> never had to use it before so ignore if its here now
<ajmitch_> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/TeachersPet
<gooseuk> Do you all have a complete list of software installed on the distro apon install?
<ajmitch_> that one?
<mhz> mwright1night: i do know that LTSP for edubuntu, does need ssh, which is more secure imho
<mwright1night> I wouldn't leave my application server directly connected directly to a dangerous network
<mwright1night> I always have them behind my openbsd firewalls
<mhz> gooseuk: once installed, you can use Synaptic (GUI) to list all installed applications, its version, its summary, etc.
<mhz> gooseuk: and use the same app. to install or uninstall applications
<mwright1night> 4.5k/s on edbubuntu...
<gooseuk> ::nods:: I am writing up the proposal, with the core software that is in the menus apon installing it on a computer
<mwright1night> can someone please seed the torrent on http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/
<mhz> gooseuk: so you already installed edubuntu?
<mhz> mwright1night: sorry, not me. I can't
<gooseuk> Not yet, going to the school tomorrow to install it on a test machine
<mhz> gooseuk: educool!
<gooseuk> Erm?
<mhz> gooseuk: you know you can count on us , esp. when we're not too busy
<mhz> so just shout or ping if need help
<gooseuk> You lot have been a great help so far
<mhz> hope so
<mhz> gooseuk: the first drug doze is always for free :D
<gooseuk> So once I get this working at school, you can add the school to your list of users
<mhz> yep
<mhz> actually, YOU can add it yourself. That's what wikis are for
<gooseuk> No problem :)
<JohnnyCastaway> Is this distro good for kids to use on a home pc?
<mhz> mwright1night: maybe you could ask in #ubuntu-devel if someone can add the seed you need
<JohnnyCastaway> Does it have the learning tools shown on the web site?
<mhz> JohnnyCastaway: what exactly you need it for? 
<mhz> yes
<JohnnyCastaway> Im looking for something for the kids to play and learn with...i see it doesnt have any adult content blocking yet. I use windoze and yahoo parental controls now and id like to switch to linux
<mhz> JohnnyCastaway: the good thing is that you can use it as server or as a workstation for kids
<JohnnyCastaway> I like ubuntu..as soon as I get COD and Bf2 working on my pc ill switch
<mhz> JohnnyCastaway: parental control is something i have not used yet, fortunately, but yes, I am sure we can work something out
<gooseuk> Speaking of adult content blocking, can you run squid from each client?
<mhz> JohnnyCastaway: my daughter (4) just loves this distro
<mhz> my son (9) hasn't seen it yet but he will
<JohnnyCastaway> Ok.. Chow time ill bbl... Hope fully my 3 will like it, I have it d/ling now...does it have open office or anything like it?
<mhz> gooseuk: it depends on what use you have of edubuntu
<gooseuk> How do you mean?
<JohnnyCastaway> Its in the kids playroom now. And they use it for everything
<JohnnyCastaway> Ok BBL
<mhz> gooseuk: if you use the "server way" (LTSP, and clients booting from it) then you only need squid on the server, that's it
<gooseuk> See thats what is confusing me
<gooseuk> Can I change user settings and customise the clients from the server?
<mhz> gooseuk: shoot and we'll try to respond 
<mhz> gooseuk: i'll summurize what edubuntu can let you do, step by step.
<gooseuk> Great
<mhz> gooseuk: as with any ubuntu flavour, when you are about to install , you 1st have to decide what you'll use it for.
<mhz> gooseuk: in this case, we'll say you'll use it as a school application server
<mhz> therefore, oyou just press <enter> at booting
<mhz> gooseuk: you install it
<mhz> gooseuk: and then, you'll see a GDM (Gnome Diplay Manager) login
<mhz> you login and you are on a Gnome dektop
<mhz> gooseuk: any question so far?
<mhz> gooseuk: then,
<gooseuk> none so far, thaks for going through this for me
<mhz> you're welcome
<mhz> gooseuk: then,
<mhz> if you don't want to change the IP information you provided during install, the ONLY thing you have to do is connect one client machine with a crosover (just for this simple example) cable, set that machine BIOS to boot from network (PXE, ususally) and you'll immediately see Linux runnig on that client screen
<mhz> gooseuk: any question so far?
<gooseuk> Yes
<mhz> shoot
<gooseuk> So I have 9 clients, so can I hook the clients to a hub then the server?
<mhz> yes
<mhz> but that is another example :D
<gooseuk> Great,
<gooseuk> :) lol sorry
<mhz> shall i go on?
<gooseuk> please do
<mhz> gooseuk: then,
<mhz> after all those lines you'll see about hardware, kernel, memory, etc
#edubuntu 2005-10-19
<mhz> you'll see a similar GDM login but this is LDM (LTSP Display mananger) asking for user and pawd
<mhz> you login with same user you indicated during install (for this example)
<mhz> and you'll enter a GNOME desktop
<mhz> that is EXACLTY the same desktop you saw in the server
<mhz> because you are actually workng ON the server FROM the client
<mhz> gooseuk: any question so far?
<gooseuk> Yes
<mhz> yes
<gooseuk> The Clients will automatically detect the server? should the clients be formated, should it have the os on it? etc
<mwright1night> No luck on seeds for edubuntu 9 peers and 0 seeds
<mwright1night> the software isn't going to get out to fast
<mwright1night> which is a bummer cause I really want to test teachers pet
<mhz> gooseuk: no need to format or install anything. Clients will use th ethernet properties to ask for a valid IP from the server and they'll immediately start receiving packages to see the process described before
<gooseuk> Ok great
<gooseuk> Please go on
<mhz> gooseuk: but if the BIOS on the clients and/or the ethernet card does not let you boot from network...then no idea how to use it :(
<gooseuk> Will check it out tomorrow
<mhz> gooseuk: however, i do believe there's a couple of projects who may work to bypass this issue
<mhz> with floppy use, i guess
<mhz> the good thing is that you do not need to install anything on clients :D
<mhz> gooseuk: so i continue,
<mwright1night> ltsp rocks
<mwright1night> reduce support time to the equiv of a server and 1 workstation
<mwright1night> where as fat clients are server + x*ws woth of support time
<mhz> mwright1night: excellent complement!
<mhz> gooseuk: so once you are logged in in th client, then you do everything you feel like it, even administer if you have the user permission to. Everything you see, is actually the server desktop.
<mhz> gooseuk: most of the work is done in the server side
<mhz> gooseuk: so clients do not need "horse power"
<gooseuk> What about saving work etc? Will it be saved to the server machine or client?
<mhz> gooseuk: afaik, the server.
<mhz> gooseuk: however, you can use USB gagets on the clients
<mhz> :)
<mhz> or floppies
<mhz> mwright1night: or not?
<gooseuk> Not on these computers, we are talking RM Nimbus Computers
<gooseuk> Floppies only
<mwright1night> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuScreenShots
<mhz> gooseuk: my HW knowledge is as bad as my japaneese knowledge :D
<gooseuk> Ah, your talking 10 year old systems
<gooseuk> If the server goes down the clients won't work either then?
<mhz> yes
<mhz> gooseuk: now you get it
<gooseuk> Hmmm, that could be a problem
<mhz> unless you install edubuntu on each client
<mhz> just in case
<mhz> and then, maybe each client may act as server or workstation
<gooseuk> I may go down the root of installing the OS on each client machine, then use the program Kickstart to copy the settings to each machine, have you used Kickstart before?
<mhz> and you can also install lighteer desktop, like xubuntu-desktop or WindowMaker or Fluxbox
<mhz> nope
<mhz> gooseuk: ALSO, you may consider this option i used on this thin laptop (no cd nor floppy to boot)
<mwright1night> gooseuk: why should your server go down very often
<mwright1night> I have heaps of LTSP systems setup, and they are a lot more reliable than conventional fat client to server systems
<gooseuk> RM Nimbus aren't in the best of health, I am the first IT tech for these systems in nearly 4 years
<mhz> gooseuk: I rebooted the laptop, the laptop was set to boot via network, the laptop got IP from Edubuntu server, I told the installation process to look for the packages at a "known" dir, and it got installed from the server side :D
<gooseuk> Plus I can't be sure of the Boot from network option in the Bios
<mwright1night> you can use floppies, 
<mwright1night> you can buy nics for $20USD with a boot prom on them
<mwright1night> you can boot the rom image from a cd or hard disk or usb flash
<mwright1night> The rom image is only 36K
<gooseuk> ::Nods::
<mhz> gooseuk: and you can use Netboot Install, thats what i did
<mwright1night> check out http://www.ltsp.org
<mhz> mwright1night: again... LTSP ROCKSSS!
<mwright1night> or ask in #ltsp if you want more reassurance
<mhz> hehehehe
<mwright1night> mhz: I am aware of this, i have lots of LTSP servers
<mwright1night> I install LTSP + freeNx for remote users
<mhz> good
<mwright1night> I have been using Fedora to date, but am looking to change to ubuntu now that 5.10 has the application software revisions that I require (ie oo 2.0
<mhz> hehehe
<mwright1night> well i always had people advocating debian, but the prob with debian being so far in the dark ages for so long that for desktop ... no one would use it
<mhz> I used to be a Debian user. Now that I have been volunteering for some time here (edubuntu), I only use edubuntu :D
<mhz> mwright1night: in defense of Debian... you can always use "unstable" or "testing"
<gooseuk> I have to say the Edubuntu was picked due to the fact that it looked the easiest to use compaired to a normal install of Linux
<mwright1night> well if you're using testing you might as well use fedora
<mwright1night> but ubuntu is like a slightly more stabilised testing so it is the option for me
<mhz> mwright1night: my only prob. is that i don't know why but i just love the APT and the way .deb look :D
<mwright1night> yum works fine.. it's just slow
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> however, if i had to decide for a rpm distro... i'd go with SuSe
<mhz> YaST rock very badly
<mhz> or opensuse, btw
<gooseuk> Xandros is good too
<mhz> gooseuk: yes
<mwright1night> you have to pay for it don't you/
<mhz> many distros are good
<mwright1night> Any chance any of you know someone who can arrange to seed the official torrent of edubuntu
<mhz> it all depends on what you are looking for. Even Gentoo is one of my favourites
<mwright1night> Gentoo eek puke
<mhz> hehehehehe
<gooseuk> Well the screenshots of edu is impressive
<mwright1night> now way, how painful
<mhz> gooseuk: edubuntu installed, that is impressive!
<mhz> :D
<mwright1night> I think edubuntu will get a lot more exposure than k12ltsp and get a lot of educator .. hobby developer teacher types on board
<mwright1night> I think this is going to be huge
<gooseuk> lol I believe you, hopefully I will run the test tomorrow
<mhz> Gentoo is absolutely possible to install using already compiled packages :D it's just that gentoo fans still prefer to do it manually
<gooseuk> Well I am more than willing for you lot to get feed back from the school on your systen
<gooseuk> system*
<mhz> gooseuk: please, do provide feedback. Users tend to enjoy and forget what we need to improve is feedback and happy users
<gooseuk> Only thing I would say is that the install options are confusing... if you hit install its the server edition... but there is another server option... 
<gooseuk> What is Teachers pet as well?
<mwright1night> Teachers pet
<mwright1night> is it on the cd
<gooseuk> It sounds interesting
<mwright1night> how did you get the edubuntu cd?
<mwright1night> I can't download it at present
<gooseuk> whats its purpose?
<gooseuk> I downloaded it today
<mwright1night>  Teaacher tool is a rewrite of Teacherspet
<mwright1night> no sorry otherway around
<mwright1night> where did you download edubuntu from?
<gooseuk> I was given a link in channel
<mwright1night> A seed has arrived
<mwright1night> can you seed it then
<mwright1night> copy your torrent directory
<gooseuk> I downloaded it about erm... 3 oclock
<mwright1night> and then download the .torrent file
<gooseuk> mwright: Are you asking me to seed it?
<mhz> gooseuk: just hit <enter> at booting prompt, unless you do not want edubuntu to be installed. If so, then just use another options in F2 or F3, i dont remember
<gooseuk> roger Mhz, from the programs listed in the screenshots they are perfect for the primary school
<mwright1night> what does f2 f3 do?
<mwright1night> it's just an install cd, not a live cd isn't it
<mhz> yes, install cd
<gooseuk> Some one said april for the Live CD? Is that true?
<mhz> Fx -> server  /  workstation  -> others
<mhz> gooseuk: why not? it all depends on how many hands are available and commited to help
<mhz> :D
<mhz> well guys... i have to go back and translate and edit some edubuntu docs on the wiki
<mhz> ping me if you think i can help you
<gooseuk> my programing knowledge is limited to say the 
<gooseuk> least
<mhz> but i am sure there's always gonna be someone else. and mwright1night i am sorry i can't seed :9
<gooseuk> Is there a Gaelic version of Edu?
<Toothpick> Who is working on a linux grade program that rivals Thinkwave...
<mhz_on_wiki> mwright1night: btw, did you know that by installing ubuntu breezy and then apt-get install edubuntu-desktop will give you an edubuntu environment?
<mhz_on_wiki> Toothpick: what you mean by 'linux grade progam'? 
<Toothpick> I mean a grading program, like for a teacher to manage grades and such.
<mhz_on_wiki> oooohhh
<Toothpick> thinkwave educator is a program I use, and one of the few that keeps me on windows often.
<mhz_on_wiki> hmm, maybe you could ask in #schooltool  I do not know about that kind of apps yet, sorry
<mhz_on_wiki> Toothpick: i am sure #schooltool gang has tested many programs
<Toothpick> I am there now...never heard of it..thanks
<mhz_on_wiki> Toothpick: did you use www.google.com/linux  and search for thinkwave educator ?
<Toothpick> I've tried it via wine
<Toothpick> but not that search
<JohnnyCastaway> Ok I d/led it am installing it and it slows to a crawl at 6% any suggestions?\
<JohnnyCastaway> Thats kind of the same that I thought
* JohnnyCastaway scratches his head
<crimsun> are you using a mirror?
<JohnnyCastaway> I am installing from the cd
<JohnnyCastaway> I think
<JohnnyCastaway> How do I tell it to use a mirror
<crimsun> what is at doing at 6%?
<JohnnyCastaway> I hit enter at the start.. Let it do its own partitioning now its crawling
<JohnnyCastaway> Right now it says klibc-utils
<JohnnyCastaway> Changes every minute or two
<JohnnyCastaway> It says installing the base system
<JohnnyCastaway> I even reburned the disc
<JohnnyCastaway> A new one I should say
<JohnnyCastaway> Now it says libklibc
<JohnnyCastaway> It says retrieving less..i see some cdrom activity...isit gettting from cdrom or network?
<magnon> congrats on release, team!
<mwright1night> hi
<zmef420> hello all
<zmef420> uhhmmm, no live cd of edubuntu?
<magnon> ogra: up?
<mhz> re
<magnon> hey
<mhz> hey magnon 
* highvoltage speedreads past the last 8 hours
<highvoltage> should i remove ppc from frontpage?
* highvoltage tentatively does that
<mhz> boooo
<highvoltage> hi mhz 
<mhz> I wanted PPC so badly
<mhz> hip
<mhz> how's you latin sense of humour "these days, father?"
<highvoltage> still very South African, thank you very much :)
<mhz> hehehe
<highvoltage> i think ppc will be fixed. i don't think there's a finality around it, unless ogra said something else.
<mhz> highvoltage: any news on how soon we'll be able to write WikiPage/SubPage
<mhz> without cgi or something issues?
<highvoltage> did you also get cgi issues?
<mhz> yes
<highvoltage> i got it yesterday and some people didn't seem to believe me.
<mhz> it does esp. when /sub pages
<highvoltage> i don't know what's going to happen to the wiki. i think it needs a lot of work.
<mhz> highvoltage: "i believe"
<mhz> highvoltage: i am more than willing to give that fight
<highvoltage> hehe. "the truth is out there"
<mhz> lol
<mhz> see? you just can't help it
<highvoltage> oh behave
<mhz> jsgotangco: welcomeback
<jsgotangco> salut
<mhz> "those about to die"
<jsgotangco> what's the news with the wiki?
<mhz> lol
<mhz> besides the cd slip and labels that still get no feddback (except by Yagisan).. none
<jsgotangco> (aren't you supposed to sleep still or just woke up too early)
<mhz> jsgotangco: i decided to wait and talk to henrik first
<jsgotangco> cd slips?
<jsgotangco> are they on the wiki?
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCdAndSlip
<jsgotangco> checking
<mhz> jsgotangco: nop, this is you thinking you are awake
<mhz> :)
<jsgotangco> i just came from my daughter's school party so i'm pretty awake
<mhz> i haven't gone to bed yet since 08:00 am. it's about 02 am now
<mhz> it seems that most of us have daughters
<jsgotangco> the front slip case is kind of cool but it seems empty with using white...
<jsgotangco> same with the back...
<jsgotangco> the cd with the earth and kids is really nice
<mhz> the reason of white is mainly because every time i imagine "new born" i imagine white. for me, edubuntu is new born
<jsgotangco> okay..
<mhz> yes, we can fill in the white with light grey lines or stuff if needed.
<Yagisan> mhz: In Japan - white is for death
<jsgotangco> it just feels kind of empty space to me
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> most astian countries do
<jsgotangco> s/astian/asian
<mhz> Yagisan: thx for the "help"
<mhz> LOL
<jsgotangco> we wear white for burials
<Yagisan> mhz: as I suggested - perhaps colourful for the cd ? The slip is nice
<mhz> it's good we have 2 people's feedback now.
<Yagisan> black and white always have cultural aspects to them
<mhz> if it is not much to bother with, could you wiki the feedback? so we all read both irc people and anyone?
<Yagisan> mhz: I don't see an edit button on that page
<mhz> Yagisan: on the other hand, it is good to use white then. We'll simbolize the death of former education and represent the new one
<mhz> are you loged in?
<Yagisan> mhz: oops - no
* mhz is needing some sleep
* mhz_zzZZ slowly walkt into the envelope
<JaneW> hello
<highvoltage> JaneW: if you need something to be fixed on the website in a hurry, my cellphone number is +27 72 399 6864.
<highvoltage> JaneW: i can always connect via gprs and make a quick fix if needed.
<JaneW> highvoltage: thanks, but we wouldn;t have woken you for that! -> moving to #edubuntu
<JaneW> highvoltage: did you manage to change the front page yet
<JaneW> ?
<highvoltage> yet
<highvoltage> i mean..
<highvoltage> yes
<\sh> good morning 
<\sh> ogra told me to come along and ask what has to be done for edubuntu ;)
<highvoltage> how do i rsync an ubuntu iso cd again?
<highvoltage> \sh: hi, welcome to #edubuntu and the edubuntu project!
<highvoltage> \sh: i think a high priority is to get the ppc edition working
<\sh> rsync -CvzapP --stats rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily/current/breezy-install-i386.iso .
<highvoltage> \sh: thank you
<\sh> highvoltage: I heard the mess with the linux kernel stuff on ppc yesterday...
<\sh> highvoltage: adjust the path to the isos when u need another one
<highvoltage> \sh: ok thanks, i'm going to adjust it to the edubuntu one
<\sh> highvoltage: I'm just downloading the amd64 dvd iso to test with ogra this afternoon/evening when I'm visiting him...
<highvoltage> what's the edubuntu cd image name again?
<\sh> highvoltage: if you need a fast connection to them, I get give u http access
<highvoltage> \sh: thanks, our connection is very slow on this side so i don't think it would make too much difference :(
<highvoltage> \sh: what's your real name?
<\sh> highvoltage: StephanHermann :)
<highvoltage> ah, i read all your stuff on planet all the time :)
<\sh> highvoltage: hehe...I will never start a blog again in my next life...promised ;)
<\sh> highvoltage: cd image or dvd?
<\sh> edubuntu-5.10-install-i386.iso <- cd i386
<\sh> change i386 with amd64 for the other iso ;)
<highvoltage> we could do with a StephanHermann on the edubuntu team ;)
<\sh> highvoltage: well....I think ogra told me something like "We need a bigger community"...so let's start 
<highvoltage> rsync: link_stat "daily/current/edubuntu-5.10-install-i386.iso" (in cdimage) failed: No such file or directory (2)
<\sh> highvoltage: u don't sync from releases? u try to sync from cdimage...
<\sh> highvoltage: the name on cdimage is different
<JaneW> \sh: I hear you are going to help ogra unwind and relax... he needs it
<JaneW> \sh: have you made a plan re biltong yet?
<\sh> JaneW: yeah...when I saw him the last time, he looked very burned out...he needs a rest really
<JaneW> \sh: and he deserves it
<\sh> JaneW: charles will smuggle some for me ;)
<JaneW> \sh: make sure he has a bit of fun please
<\sh> JaneW: we will have fun :) 
<JaneW> \sh: ok good, is that arranged?
<highvoltage> ah yes, \sh was in durban :)
<\sh> JaneW: yeah :)
<\sh> highvoltage: not only durban :)
<\sh> most of the time, yes ;) 
<\sh> JaneW: u never told me, btw, that your son is a karateka :)
<\sh> JaneW: I hope he's doing shotokan karate?
<JaneW> \sh: he had his first grading a short while ago and got 2 stripes ;)
<\sh> JaneW: hehe...well my little one has the blue belt now :) 
<\sh> ah coffee time..brb
<JaneW> \sh: he does karate at school, but the sensei comes from a dojo called Samurai, so I think it's samurai based - the head of the dojo does sword work etc
<JaneW> \sh: age? 
* JaneW 's 9 year old nephew is a blue belt too
<highvoltage> \sh:  should "rsync -CvzapP --stats rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/edubuntu-5.10-install-i386.iso ." work?
<\sh> JaneW: 12 :)
<\sh> highvoltage: if releases has a rsync daemon running yes...but for this ask kamion 
<\sh> JaneW: he had his 12th birthday friday last week 
<highvoltage> ok, thanks
<\sh> JaneW: last year was a WYKC here in germany (World Youth Karate Championships). I had some nice chats with the group of karatekas from all over ZA there..they're were good, really good.
<JaneW> \sh: great
<JaneW> \sh: is ogra sleeping?
<jsgotangco> hey JaneW
<jsgotangco> nice cake
<jsgotangco> congratulations
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<JaneW> thanks
<JaneW> thanks
<JaneW> and thanks to you :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: thanks for being our most loyal (and always here) helper :)
<\sh> JaneW: I hope so :) 
<bjweeks> Hello
<jsgotangco> loyal?
<jsgotangco> heh
* jsgotangco was thinking about personal agenda a few minutes ago
<jsgotangco> joke
<JaneW> heh
<Jeromee> =P
* JaneW has a teleconf in a few minutes, re adoption of edubuntu in Finnish school, so will be afk for an hour or so...
<jsgotangco> ahh k
<jsgotangco> i also got emails regarding that kind of thing
<\sh> JaneW: good luck :)
<JaneW> ta
<JaneW> highvoltage: ping
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> Twylite http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuScreenShots?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=t_khangman.png : did someone actually proof-read this website ?!
<jsgotangco> it was a pun
<jsgotangco> wtf
<jsgotangco> pretty bad pun thogh
<jsgotangco> brb going to take a nap
<highvoltage> JaneW
<bjweeks> hey
<bjweeks> I need help installing edubunu
<highvoltage> JaneW: hehe, on what channel was that?
<highvoltage> bjweeks: questions? fire away!
<bjweeks> ok so Im going to install the server
<bjweeks> but what do I have to do to the clients?
<bjweeks> ???
<highvoltage> you want to boot them as ltsp clients?
<highvoltage> you need a network boot client.
<highvoltage> there are two big ones: etherboot and PXE.
<highvoltage> most of the new motherboards with built-in motherboards also have PXE installed, all you need to do is enable network booting in the bios.
<bjweeks> so i have to change the lan boot rom?
<highvoltage> yes.
<highvoltage> that's about all you need to do :)
<highvoltage> if it's older machines,
<JaneW> highvoltage: #Linix on Zanet
<JaneW> #linux even
<bjweeks> Yes the one i have for testing has Lan boot
<highvoltage> you can use etherboot: http://rom-o-matic.net
<highvoltage> excellent.
<JaneW> highvoltage: it's where I started (100 years ago)
<JaneW> highvoltage: I am trying to convert them...
<highvoltage> #linux on zanet is quite rubbish, imo.
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'm always on #clug, our local LUG.
<JaneW> heh I just realised I have been on the inetrnet for 10 years this month (although I had e-mail before that - but the only other ppl I knew with e-mail were on campus on that was just LAN traffic).
<JaneW> highvoltage: I know all the ppl there though, most IRL ;P
<highvoltage> ah
<JaneW> highvoltage: it's all the old #za ppl from saponet
<bjweek> ok back
<JaneW> highvoltage: doesn't make them *not* dorks though ;)
<JaneW> highvoltage: several of us even paired up (sad hey?)...
<highvoltage> geez! :)
<bjweek> installing edubuntu :)
<enyc> 0000
<highvoltage> 0001
<highvoltage> 0010
<highvoltage> 0011
<highvoltage> 0100
<highvoltage> 0101
<enyc> 0110
<enyc> 0111
<enyc> 1000
<enyc> 1001
<enyc> 1010
<bjweek> binary?
<enyc> mafbe
<enyc> waybe
<enyc> argh
<bjweek> lol
<enyc> MAYBE
* enyc stull not used to dvorak yet
* enyc still not used to dvorak yet
<bjweek> lol i love dvorak
<enyc> btu ive only been trying for 3 days so far...
* JaneW is too scared to try
<JaneW> looks/sounds freaky
<JaneW> and I am a bad enough typer anyway
<enyc> 'lol
<bjweek> ok done installing but i got a login screen
<bjweek> is that right?
<bjweek> ?
<bjweek> smart people?
<highvoltage> bjweek: i'm not smart, but getting a logon screen after installation is a good thing.
<highvoltage> that i know.
<bjweek> ok thx
<bjweek> So now I can netboot?
<highvoltage> you can log on using the username and password you supplied during installation.
<bjweek> yes
<highvoltage> yes, you should be able to netboot now.
<bjweek> Did they include teachearspet?
<juliux> ogra, ping
<highvoltage> ogra is working on teachertool, i'm not sure if the entire teachertool is finished yet, or where to find it in edubuntu.
<highvoltage> JaneW: do you know?
<bjweek> be back in a few mins going to try it :)
<ogra> morning world
<ogra> juliux, pong
<Jeromee> mornin ogra
<ogra> highvoltage, no teachertool yet, i'm going on with the work on it next week, i'll care for a backport to breezy once its done
<\sh> hey ogra :)
<ogra> moin \sh 
<JaneW> highvoltage: um... I think it's in universe
<JaneW> oh hi ogra
<JaneW> did you sleep well?
<ogra> so so
<\sh> ogra: u have a dvd burner at home? I don't have a dvd media to burn on..*sigh*
<JaneW> hmmm
<enyc> hello \\\s\h ;-)
<ogra> still not enough to get through completely...
<\sh> enyc: ehe :)
<ogra> but the weekend is ahead :)
<Jeromee> hmm
<ogra> highvoltage, ltsp is not running directly after install, thats why EdubuntuInstallNotes exists... point people there first...
* enyc has heatshrinking on fan-power-cables to do
<juliux> ogra, can i use systemsnapshots with edubuntu?
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, thanks, my edubuntu md5 sum didn't match, so i'm rsyncing, i don't actually have a new edubuntu cd yet :(
<enyc> my md5sum worked ;-)
<ogra> juliux, systemsnapshots ? 
* enyc cdrecord on 4x mitsumi cd
* enyc dd | md5sum on another drive
<juliux> ogra, yes you make a snapshot of a partition after install and than you can every time reset to this snapshot
<juliux> ogra, with snapshots it is possible to crypt the root partiton
<ogra> juliux, nope, but thats a nice idea to incorporate in our teacher tool... i'm not sure, probably sabayon offers such functionallity...
<ogra> (not for the whole system, but for accounts)
<juliux> ogra, an with snapshots you also can reset the home partition of an user if there is any problem
<ogra> sabayon sadly has a bad bug that prevents it from working through ltsp, so we couldnt include it yet
<bjweeks> hey
<bjweeks> I have to use a switch not a router right?
<ogra> bjweeks, depends....
<juliux> ogra, if you only want to crypt an other partition you can use cryptsetup
<ogra> i'd use a router for routing and a switch for switching :)
<bjweeks> Ok cause i just set it up and it didnt connect
<ogra> bjweeks, you set up what, and what didnt connect ? 
<ogra> ("it" is a bit unspecific ;) )
<bjweeks> I have the edubuntu running in own box behind the router and my other box using the "Nvida boot agent" and is stops on dhcp...
<bjweeks> one*
<ogra> and the one with the boot agent shall act as thin client ? 
<bjweeks> correct
<ogra> did you follow http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes to set up ltsp after install ? 
<bjweeks> Nope let me go do that
<ogra> there is one manual step required ... (will go away in the next release)
<ogra> juliux, i have no experience with crypto stuff nor with system hardening but i'd be grateful if someone with knowledge would take that part for eduuntu :)
<ogra> *edubuntu ... whoops
<juliux> ogra, i install edubuntu at this time in a vmware and i will play a litte bit with edubuntu
<bjweeks> It still wont boot..
<ogra> juliux, great :)
<bjweeks> o wait
<ogra> bjweeks, does it get a dhcp address ? and does it do the tftp dance on boot ?
<\sh> juliux: thx for your help :) I owe u one :)
<ogra> bjweeks, the first boot always takes a bit longer
<bjweeks> When I try to start the dhcp server it asys fail
<juliux> \sh, no problem yesterday i wasn't a help because i did not get the images
<bjweeks>  * Starting DHCP server...                                               [fail] 
<ogra> bjweeks, you did what the help suggests ? 
<bjweeks> Replaceing the 192.168.0 with the ip i put in
<bjweeks> ?
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
<ogra> yes
<bjweeks> Im there
<bjweeks> I fail on sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start
<\sh> juliux: it's ok..but at least you heard the call :)
<ogra> bjweeks, then your file is not right yet... can you paste the output of ifconfig and the content of the file somewhere ? 
<bjweeks> Can I pm it to you?
<ogra> sure
<Jeromee> I should put edubuntu in my car.
<Jeromee> hh
<Jeromee> heh*
<ogra> you have a pc in your car ? 
<Jeromee> I probably will
<Jeromee> for audio/dvd/navi
<Jeromee> getting a sound card that will connect up to my amps properly, and produce decent sound while being compatable with any linux distrobution would be a silly task though.
<juliux> ogra, that i want do http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/EVMS-Snapshots_mit_Verschl%C3%BCsselung
<ogra> juliux, did you show that to pitti already ? 
<Jeromee> haha, want a WRX Edubuntu demo car?
<ogra> he's mr security 
<Jeromee> :P
<juliux> ogra, no
<ogra> Jeromee, yeah
<Jeromee> lol.
<Jeromee> ogra, pm
<juliux> ogra, now he knows the link
<ogra> yup, i saw
<bjweeks> Teachers Pet didnt make it in right?
<ogra> yup
<bjweeks> Sounds are only on the server?
<highvoltage> bjweeks: do you see a little cross where the volume controll is on the clients?
<bjweeks> yes
<bjweeks> I unmuted it thi
<bjweeks> tho
<bjweeks> Going to bed thanks for all the help and goodnight
<highvoltage> ping -b
<ogra> Usage: ping [-LRUbdfnqrvVaA]  [-c count]  [-i interval]  [-w deadline] 
<ogra>             [-p pattern]  [-s packetsize]  [-t ttl]  [-I interface or address] 
<ogra>             [-M mtu discovery hint]  [-S sndbuf] 
<ogra>             [ -T timestamp option ]  [ -Q tos ]  [hop1 ...]  destination
<variant> hi guys
<ogra> hi variant 
<highvoltage> ogra: :)
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> ogra: just saw you at the edubuntu cake eating
<ogra> huh...
<ogra> me ? 
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> http://jonathancarter.co.za/photies/Edubuntu-Launch-Cake-14-October-2005
<ogra> hmm, my stomach disagrees :)
<ogra> it hasnt recieved any food today it tells me :)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> whats that in my hand ? 
<highvoltage> a big jelly tot :)
<ogra> heh
<variant> My brother is a computing and maths teacher in a Shetland high school.. he is forced to have winxp on the workstations but has been using knoppix as a live cd to teach the kids about Free Software.. Is there any plans to release an Edubuntu live CD? If not... I think i should be able to do one my self but it would be easyer to just download an existing one :)
<ogra> variant, yes, the next release will have a live CD...
<ogra> we had much trouble getting this release together, so the liveCD was postponed...
<variant> allso, from the screenshots i guess that most of the educational software is aimed at younger kids.. is there much teenager level software available?
<variant> ogra: i see, thats excelent!
<ogra> how would you characterize teenager software ? 
<ogra> (we cant include counterstrike and halflife ;) )
<variant> hmm, software that doesnt use cartoon illustratoins instead of words and contains A-level type material (UK A-levels studied by 18 year olds in case your not from UK)
<variant> hahah i dont mean games at all..
<variant> :P
<ogra> :)
<variant> ktouch is a nice example.. its not patroniseing or anything
<variant> and tuxtype is good for younger kids
<variant> kstars and celestia allso
<ogra> we have a lot of kdeedu stuff in
<variant> whats that other star one?
<variant> stellarium i think
<ogra> celestia didnt fit on the CD together ith kstars... we had to decide for one...
<ogra> kstars is in ...
<ogra> but indeed you can chnage the software selection by yourself...
<variant> I dont know so much about it though.. what im trying to say is.. do you think the edubuntu CD is suitable for a 12 to 18 year old environment?
<variant> ogra: yeah.. he will only be using the live cd though.. can they be easily remasterd?
<ogra> i think it might work up to 16... 18 is a bit to old ... when i was 18 i would rather have used a default ubuntu...
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=471&slide=4&title=edubuntu+5.10+official+screenshots
<variant> well thats great.. thanks man!
<ogra> there is a remastering howto on the ubuntu wiki somewhere... since edubuntu is developed *in* ubuntu, it will be the same procedure
<variant> nice screenshots
<variant> whats that image browser? http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=471&slide=37
<ogra> yeah, they updated :)
<variant> oh, nm user selection
<highvoltage> my word. how did they choose these picures? http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=471&slide=37
<variant> gnome-2.12 as well, thats awsome
<variant> highvoltage: i think they are wikipedia pictures of the day
<variant> i recognise a few of them (i save most of the pic of the days for wallpapers)
<variant> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_pictures
<variant> ogra: does it come with stellarium? thats rather an excelent peice of software
<highvoltage> ah, cool. they reminded me of the pics in windows, then again, it's been so long that i've used windows that my memory might be just a bit warped :)
<variant> highvoltage: lol
<ogra> variant, nope ... 
<variant> ogra: time for a liveDVD :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> if we have the liveCD, the DVD will contain both, live and install image ;)
<variant> cool
<variant> is there an live cd i can download yet?
<ogra> stellarium is available in universe ... probably something to consider for next release
<variant> one in testing or somthign
<ogra> nope
<ogra> you could download the ubuntu liveCD and add (by remastering) edubuntu-desktop to it
<mhz> hey
<Yagisan> hey mhz
<variant> ogra: universe?
<ogra> i'm not sure if we'll make a ltsp live version... it would be cool, but break for more than one, two clients
<Yagisan> mhz: you do web stuff right ?
<mhz> Yagisan: isn't it late for you?
<Yagisan> mhz: only 9:15PM here
<mhz> Yagisan: we, Tecnocimiento, do
<variant> mind if i idle here incase i get more questions? :)
<mhz> ohhh
<ogra> variant, yes... universe is the community supported part of ubuntu... it holds 16000 packages for installation
<mhz> just an hour diff
<variant> ogra: nice
<ogra> variant, stay please :)
<variant> aww, thanks!
<ogra> idle as you like ;)
<Yagisan> mhz: an hour ??
<variant> gonna sign up to the mailing list
<mhz> well, sorry, 13
<mhz> :D
<mhz> wow, huge diff
<juliux> ogra, edubuntu runs in my vmware now
<ogra> yay
<juliux> ogra, but the icons in the bottom pannel are broken
<Yagisan> mhz: that's a good point for the proposal :) have you worked with plone ?
<ogra> juliux, are you logged in twice with the same user ? 
<juliux> ogra, server an client a in vmare, very crasy but it wrks
<juliux> ogra, yes
<juliux> s/a/are
<ogra> juliux, gnome doesnt like that ...
<juliux> ogra, ah ok
<ogra> use another user :)
<mhz> Yagisan: hmmm, what do you mean? proposal+plone
<variant> btw, totaly uninteresting information to anyone except me (im just too exited to keep it quiet right now) I just got my first job in 3 months of unemployment this morning!!! tech support!! woohoo!
<ogra> something i have to look into for next release...
<ogra> variant, congrats !
<variant> thanks !!!
<variant> gotta move to ireland (from sweden) next week now :S
<juliux> ogra, greate work
<Yagisan> variant: congratulations
<ogra> thanks :)
<variant> thank you thank you.. /me shuts up now :P
<mhz> variant: that rocks!
<ogra> mhz, could you put my answer back below the RalpGlass comment ? 
<ogra> mhz, thanks for caring for all this wiki stuff btw :)
<mhz> np
<mhz> np 2 2 stuff :D
<mhz> ogra: i tought that was the intro and not the answer, sorry.
<ogra> heh
<ogra> please file bugs might not be a good intro for a "user comments" page :) 
<ogra> *grin*
<mhz> lol
<juliux> ogra, how can i shut down a client?
<juliux> ogra, i see the ltsp display manager but i don't want log in i want to shut down the computer
<ogra> logout and use the powerbutton
<mhz> ogra: BTW, just to spice a little bit your wiki knowledge. In moin, if you want others to see that you edited something, you may use a nice feature. Just add @SIG@ to the end of a comment you made and once you save the page, Moin will immediately place a timestamp for you (user logged in + timestamp). 
<ogra> the client is using a read only filesystem...
<juliux> ogra, thanks
<ogra> juliux, the next version of the login manager already runs here, i'll add a shutdown button 
<juliux> ogra, great
<ogra> juliux, in case you want to have a look http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/
<ogra> (see ldm_installation)
<juliux> ogra, i never installed a ltsp so easy
<variant> Is the live cd expected to support frame buffer?
<ogra> it still requires one manual step.... my target was to have no manual work involved at all
<juliux> ogra, but this is no prolem
<ogra> variant, yes... after the initial questions
<JaneW> ogra: distro watch is advertising PPC for edubuntu... http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=02971#0
<variant> ogra: in that case i might have a good sugestion..
<variant> hold on a sec :)
<JaneW> ogar: they must have used an draft release announcement
<ogra> JaneW, actually i think thats fine, because we can see how many requests we'll get but can point to an error on distrowatch as excuse ;)
<JaneW> ogra: ok, that's a point ;)
<ogra> variant, note that we only support vga16fb ... no more than 16 colors
<variant> ogra: eek, how come?
<JaneW> ogra: I hope you have some resting, relaxing and fun planned - wish you could have had some cake with you. We mentioned you and sang your praises though. 'Oli of Edu'
<ogra> JaneW, the desktop works fine on ubuntu... you just need to install edubuntu-desktop on top, so ppc is not completely locked out
<ogra> JaneW, i saw the pics, lol
<juliux> ogra, i think we will use edubuntu at  the fairs in germany
<ogra> variant, because other framebuffer implementations only work on 80% of all hardware... we cant lock out 20% of the users :)
<ogra> juliux, yay!
<juliux> ogra, an then 2 kinds of log in one normal ubuntu and one edubuntu
<ogra> juliux, i'll see which ones i can attend :)
<ogra> one i nver miss is FOSDEM, not really german, but i'm there every year
<variant> ogra: I was going to sugest qingy (frame buffer getty replacement) it has a very nice themeable login system and its super fast and small compared with gdm/xdm
<variant> or kdm i mean
<juliux> ogra, because then the visitors can test ubuntu with there own notebooks 
<ogra> variant, quingy even runs on less HW... not an option for a distro that get shipped to a broad audience
<variant> ogra: damn shame
<variant> i use it on my laptop though :P
<mhz> variant: I have just instaled xubuntu and kubuntu desktops to try them on edubuntu env.
<ogra> variant, its the fault of the graphics cards and bios manufacturers... you cant change whats already out there and broken by design HW wise... so we try to cope with it
<variant> mhz: nice
<ogra> but that forces decisions like "if we want a bootsplash, vga16fb is the only way to go"
<mhz> variant: but I still can't make LDM to let me log in into any other desktop than gnome :(
<ogra> mhz, i gave you the command to change it twice already...
<variant> ogra: true.. its a shame but qingy and the kernel support for better frame buffers is not that large.. would a boot option be possible (not exactly a priority even if it is, i understand that :))
<mhz> ogra: really???????????/
<ogra> mhz, sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
<ogra> select the default one :)
<mhz> ah, but that didnot work at all
<juliux> ogra, how long the clients normally needs to boot?
<ogra> juliux, way to long :)
<ogra> but below a minute i think
<mhz> ogra: it always ended up showing same message: "there's only one manager"
<Yagisan> juliux: I have a p2 300 - it takes about 1-2 minutes
<juliux> Yagisan, thanks
<ogra> mhz, even with kubuntu-desktop or xubuntu-desktop installed ? they register there
<juliux> Yagisan, i cann't test it because server and client runs in vmware
<mhz> yep.
<ogra> Yagisan, woah -2 minutes ? 
<ogra> we urgetly need to improve that
<mhz> ogra: sorry i had not mentioned that result before
<ogra> at least we'll have usplash in soon... so you get a bit entertainment :)
<ogra> mhz, something is screwed then... if these packages are installed you must have the chioce there
<Yagisan> ogra: it's not an issue, the is a delay for the nfs problem workaround, and in hardware autodetection
<Yagisan> ogra: and my network is often congested
<ogra> Yagisan, there is a "sleep 3" leftover in the bootscript
<ogra> (just to give an example for mprovement)
<Yagisan> ogra: and I should mention I boot via etherboot (and it also has a small delay)
<ogra> Yagisan, i guess we can get it to 30 sec boots
<mhz> ogra: WOW, sorry!!! it worked now that I rebooted after installing kubuntu-desktop!
<ogra> :)
<ogra> mhz, great
<juliux> ogra, then you need gigaethernet in the server
<ogra> but i still dont ger why ~/.xsession didnt work
<mhz> now, the stupid issue here is that it worked on the laptop, but the other machine i have (desktop) doe snot boot from net, i believe. :D
* ogra has only gigE on his client :)
<juliux> ok
<ogra> i have a very thick thin client for my tests :)
<mhz> ogra: you are back to 'below' Ralph
<Yagisan> ogra: sure - but it still boots rather quick compared other systems that I've run on that P2
<ogra> (amd64, 512MB nvidia 6500 and gigE)
<ogra> mhz, thanks
<mhz> np
<Yagisan> mhz: I can help with the non-net booting machine
<mhz> cool, but could we try in about 15 mins?
* mhz gotta serve breakfast to Amaya (daughter)
<Yagisan> mhz: sure - when you get back post the output from lspci | grep Ethernet
<mhz> okidoki
<mhz> thx
<variant> how about initng support.. would that speed up a live cd at all?
<ogra> nope
<juliux> ogra, now i install edubuntu on my harddisk
<ogra> the liveCD is based on the debian installer... you'd need to speed up this one...
<ogra> juliux, cool :)
<mhz> ogra: just in case any of the doc team is around... Moin has included a plugin to render Moin pages as DockBook, just from 'MoreActions' Drop down menu :D  EduCooool!
<mhz> they can test it on the official site, of course
<mhz_cooking> hno73: hi! will you be here in about 20-30 mins?
<mhz_cooking> (please)
* mhz_cooking BBS
<hno73> mhz_cooking: I'll be at lunch then, but I'll be back in 60-90 minutes from now
<mhz_cooking> ooops
* mhz_cooking has been called to participate in a very important meeting with a university Tecnocimiento may have a chance to have a room to demo Edubuntu in.
<ogra> cool :)
<mhz_cooking> Yagisan: sorry, but I'll have to run faster now
<mhz_cooking> hno73: hmmm, no way I can be here by then
<mhz_cooking> hno73: what other options of "ircing" do we have? later? tomorrow? usually, what time?
<hno73> mhz_cooking: ok, I'll catch you this evening or at the weekend?
<mhz_cooking> ogra: cool
<mhz_cooking> hno73: i really appreciate and i'm sorry to be a pain in the neck :)
<hno73> just ping me, even if i'm not in this chan.
<mhz_cooking> ok
<mhz_cooking> i think i'll be back on irc in about 5 hours
<mhz_cooking> maybe/hopefully before
<hno73> ok cya then
<mhz_cooking> hno73: please see CD slip and label on wiki and tell me your opinion
<hno73> I agree with whoever said it needs more colour
<hno73> I'm also not thrilled by the stick figures for some reason
<Zaheer> hello, Congrats on the first release Edubuntu :)
<ogra> Zaheer, thanks a lot :)
<juliux> ogra, how much swap i need for edubuntu?
<Zaheer> i havent DL yet, need to check the bandwith but i cant wait
<juliux> ogra, i one gb enough ?
<ogra> juliux, hmm, none but enough mem ? 
<ogra> juliux, if the server starts swapping you'll be lost anyway...it will get darn slow
<ogra> so you only need it for security fallback... i regulary go with linus advice to use 50% ramsize... but that may be outdated...
<ogra> i guess so
<\sh> JaneW: ping
<juliux> ogra, only 768MB ram
<Yagisan> that would depend on your ramsize
<ogra> 1gb should be plenty...
<juliux> ogra, thxs
<juliux> ogra, the edubuntu installer didn't download the languagepackages
<ogra> juliux, do you have internet connection ? 
<juliux> ogra, yes
<ogra> strange... works here
<juliux> ogra, there is no try to download them
<ogra> it should do that after the ltsp chroot setup ...
<ogra> right before reboot
<juliux> ok i will wait
<ogra> and it takes ages, the kde langpack is terrible big...
<ogra> (15MB)
<juliux> ogra, i have the de.archives.ubuntu.com mirror in the local lan :-)
<ogra> heh
<juliux> ogra, 6Mbit/s down
<ogra> then it'll go quick... i thik it downloads 5 files or so
<juliux> yes very quick
<juliux_> re
<JaneW> \sh_away: pong (sorry late)
<juliux_> ogra, the language package are installed
<highvoltage> JaneW: \sh: ping timeout :)
<ogra> JaneW, he'll be here around 6pm again...
<JaneW> ogra: I won't :P
<Danborg> By default, Edubuntu installs an LTSP server... is there an option to install an thin client?
<ogra> Danborg, ??
<Danborg> ogra, ??
<ogra> waht would you want to install on a thin client ? 
<ogra> they are diskless
<Danborg> not all thin clients are diskless
<ogra> you mean thick clients
<ogra> or half thick clients...
<Danborg> well skinny clients if you prefer
<ogra> which both are not supported in this release, they are targeted at the next one...
<ogra> but i know highvoltage tweaks edubuntu to work like that
<Danborg> so you must use fat client with edubuntu right now?
<ogra> no, eithet the satndalone workstation or thin clients on the ltsp server
<ogra> *either
<Danborg> where is good docs for configuring thin clients
<ogra> no need to configure anything
<Danborg> (sigh)
<Yagisan> Danborg: if I understand you - plug in a PXE system and boot up
<ogra> just follow the post install steps on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes and boot your diskless clients
<Danborg> I think Yagisan understands my question better
<ogra> there is nothing to do additionally
<Danborg> Except that this old system is not PXE
<ogra> Danborg, i dont understand what you want to configure ? you either boot via etherboot or PXE, the rest is done by ltsp...
<Yagisan> Danborg: does it have a hard disk or can it boot from cdrom ?
<ogra> indeed you can also use old school lts.conf setups with our ltsp server if you ike the pain
<Yagisan> ogra: I think he needs to get old systems netbooting
<ogra> Yagisan, yup, etherboot
<Danborg> Yagisan, this system has both a hard disk and a cdrom, but no PXE nic.. it has old nic
<Yagisan> Danborg: great I can help then
<Yagisan> Danborg: would you rather a boot cd - or boot from hard disk
* highvoltage is upset about an old but in ubuntu that still isn't fixed
<Danborg> cd would be more transportable to more than one machine
<highvoltage> something that is quite critical.
<highvoltage> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1
<Yagisan> Danborg: It will be specfic to the type of network card in the machine anyway
<highvoltage> is that a bug in eduntu yet?
<Yagisan> Danborg: what NIC do you have ?
<Yagisan> Danborg: $ lspci | grep Ethernet
<ogra> highvoltage, yes, thats a thing that needs quite soe time for fixag :)
<Danborg> FA311 from Netgear
<Yagisan> Danborg (assuming you have linux of some sort on the client)
<Yagisan> Danborg: do you know what chipset that uses ?
<ogra> \sh, JaneW was looking for you...
<ogra> gah, to slow
<Danborg> National Semiconductor 
<Yagisan> Danborg: ok - go here http://www.rom-o-matic.net/5.4.1/
<Yagisan> Danborg: select natsemi from the NIC list
<Yagisan> Danborg: select .liso for output format (for boot cd)
<Yagisan> Danborg:click configure
<Yagisan> Danborg: ping me when ready
<Danborg> ok
<Yagisan> Danborg: make sure PXELOADER_KEEP_ALL is ticked
<Danborg> ok
<Yagisan> Danborg: I also suggest ticking POWERSAVE, ALLMULTI, MULTICAST_LEVEL1, MULTICAST_LEVEL2, DOWNLOAD_PROTO_TFTM
<Yagisan> Danborg: the click get rom
<Yagisan> s/the/then
<Yagisan> Danborg: the .liso file is a standard .iso file, burn it to a cd-rw (in case it don't work)
<Yagisan> Danborg: and try to boot a client with it
<Yagisan> ogra: if this isn't already on the wiki - you may want to paste it there
<ogra> highvoltage, could you please add a note to the frontpage tha we'll have a liveCD ready with the next release 6.04 ? 
<ogra> Yagisan, yes please :)
<ogra> dont forget that we have to prefix all our sites with Edubuntu since the merge :)
<Danborg> Yagisan, thank you, I will try it.
<Yagisan> Danborg: I did this (but with zlilo images) for my office - it's just like having a pxe card then
<Danborg> ok good, let me burn it and will came back later
<Yagisan> Danborg: sure, let me know how it goes (I might not be here though GMT+10 here)
<Yagisan> ogra: see, etherboot support isn't needed anymore, etherboot can pretend to be pxe now :)
<ogra> cool
<ogra> then we can wipe it from ltsp
<ogra> the mknbi package we have was never tested :)
<Yagisan> ogra: does need the extra prep work though to pretend to be pxe
<ogra> yes, but thats not affecting ltsp :)
<ogra> so we can clean up the server side and just point to rom-o-matic
<ogra> what i really miss are PXE bootable wlan cards :)
<Yagisan> ogra: where on the wiki should I put this
<Yagisan> ogra: etherboot :)
<ogra> EdubuntuLTSPEtherboot ? 
<ogra> hmm, looks odd
<ogra> EdubuntuEtherbootClients ? 
<ogra> or ClientSetup
<Yagisan> ogra: I'll go with clientsetup - we can put pxe notes as well there
<ogra> what would you want to configure on PXE ? 
<Yagisan> ogra: eg how to enable pxe on onboard nics etc
<ogra> hmm, isnt tha always enabled by default ? 
<ogra> i havent seen a card where its not yet...
<Yagisan> ogra: no - my server box supports pxe - only after I go into the bios and tell it to turn pxe on
<ogra> oh
<Yagisan> ogra: I used to see some cards that needed you to press shift+F10 on boot to enable pxe as well
<ogra> true, but they tell you that they need that ...
<ogra> anywa, put it up on the page :) 
<Yagisan> ogra: assuming that you see it scroll up
<Yagisan> sure, be back soon - have to put daughter to bed - should take about 30 mins
<Yagisan> if there is a page there to edit when I get back, great :)
<ogra> take your time... 
<ogra> i have to claen the house a bit before \sh comes
<gooseuk> Afternoon folks
<Yagisan> back again
<gooseuk> wb
<gooseuk> Yagisan: Are you a developer here?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: not really - but I can probally help
<Yagisan> gooseuk: whats on your mind ?
<gooseuk> Well I hope to be installing the OS on a small primary school network, basically if I can install SafeSquid on to the OS
<gooseuk> Can I install it onto each client?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I see, I don't see a safesquid package
<Yagisan> gooseuk: safesquid - that's a web filter right ? (sounds like on)
<Yagisan> one
<gooseuk> Yeah its a webfilter
<gooseuk> its rather important that I can install a webfilter
<Yagisan> gooseuk: that would most likely need to be installed on the machine running squid
<gooseuk> How do you mean?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: you wouldn't need to install filters on the client
<Yagisan> gooseuk: OK - how is your network set up ?
<gooseuk> Internet -> Router -> Hub -> 10 clients
<Yagisan> gooseuk: in between Internet and Router I would install a machine to do www proxy
<gooseuk> Ok, Server basically then
<Yagisan> gooseuk: yes
<gooseuk> Hmm, should be interesting trying to learn how to network them... 
<gooseuk> I haven't used Linux before for networking
<Yagisan> now - there are two ways to do it, either a transparent proxy, or a non-transparent proxy
<gooseuk> Whats the different?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: It's harder for the client to bypass a transparent proxy, and less work configuring clients :)
<Yagisan> gooseuk: but more work configuring the server :(
<gooseuk> I see, ok
<gooseuk> Well If I hook the Server up to the Router should it auto detect the internet?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: brb
<Yagisan> gooseuk: what you want is Internet -> Firewall -> WWW Proxy + Filter -> Router -> Hub -> 10 clients
<Yagisan> gooseuk: looking for a nice howto for you
<gooseuk> Many thanks Yagisan
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I understand what you want to do, and if you have a spare box we can do it with Ubuntu
<gooseuk> At the minute it will have to be Internet -> Server [Proxy + Firewall Software]  -> Hub -> 9 Clients
<Yagisan> gooseuk - sure, that was just a logical breakdown
<gooseuk> ::nods:: I will just going to have issues with the setting up of the IP/TCP settings for the server and clients 
<gooseuk> Never done that, not to mention doing it with Linux lol
<Yagisan> gooseuk: this is rather dry and technical - but it explains how to do transparent proxy services http://www.squid-cache.org/Doc/FAQ/FAQ-17.html
<gooseuk> ... lol Thanks for finding that for me, I can see I am going to have issues
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I'm looking for something easier, it's not that hard, but I'd like a more step by step guide
<Yagisan> gooseuk: and it helps to be up to date
<gooseuk> Yagisan, if I install Squid on every client in the Transparent mode, will it mean that I don't have to change any ip information etc for the filter to work on the firefox browser?
<gooseuk> On the client machines that it
<gooseuk> that is*
<Yagisan> gooseuk: squid is only installed on the machine that is to be the www proxy server
<gooseuk> Ok, if I install the network in this way: Internet -> Router -> Server [proxy] ]  -> hub -> 9 clients
<gooseuk> Will I have to mess with the Ip/TCP settings on the Clients so that they can use the filter software and connect to the internet?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: no
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I just saw the safesquid webpage
<gooseuk> So the clients will automatically coonect to the internet, through the hub to the server, using the proxy WITHOUT me having to set up IP settings etc
<gooseuk> Ok?
<gooseuk> Its confusing me at the minute how it would work
<Yagisan> gooseuk: yes then seems fine
<Yagisan> s/then/that
<gooseuk> Ok, when I am hooking up the network for the first time, from scratch, I hook the router to the server, the server to the hub and then clients to the hub, they will all be able to access the internet instantly, without me having to add ip settings etc for the client machines?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: yes
<Yagisan> gooseuk: looking at that setup, server is the edubuntu computer isn't it
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<gooseuk> All the computers will be running edubuntu to be honest incase the server fails
<gooseuk> butt yes the server will be running edubuntu
<Yagisan> gooseuk: A bit out of date but still usefull http://dansguardian.org/downloads/DGandTransparent.txt
<gooseuk> so basically I have no setting up of IP addresses etc for making this small network?! GREAT, to be honest I have been in a bit of a panic, because I didn't know how hard it would be for the network to work
<Yagisan> gooseuk: shouldn't be much trouble at all. dansguardian is a better choice then the dodgy looking safesquid
<gooseuk> Many thanks Yagisan
<gooseuk> Well I am setting this network up next week, the one problem is that the bios can't boot from the network
<Yagisan> gooseuk, considering all traffic is going through the edubuntu server, you could install squid and dansguardian there
<gooseuk> So basically I am installing the clients with the OS as well 
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I can get them to netboot for you
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: can you give me a very quick tutorial on how to add pages to the wiki
<gooseuk> How can you do that Yagisan?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: hold on for a moment, and I'll show you how (I've explained it once already today - time to wiki it)
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: just create a link on an existing page with CamelCase
<gooseuk> Yes please it would be a great help
<jsgotangco> CamelCase becomes an automatic link
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: pretend I'm a monkey
<jsgotangco> when you click on CamelCase you have the option of creating a new page
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: and how would this monkey create a new link
<jsgotangco> use CamelCase ex. MonkeyPage
<jsgotangco> MonkeyPage becomes an automatic link
<jsgotangco> if you're going to link outside ex. [http://www.foo.com Foo] 
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: many thanks
<Yagisan> gooseuk: could you do lspci | grep Ethernet on a client machine for me (Assuming they have the same NIC)
<gooseuk> lspci ?
<gooseuk> <- Linux Virgin
<Yagisan> gooseuk: open a terminal and type "lspci | grep Ethernet"
<gooseuk> What does that do?
<gooseuk> Not on the Edubuntu OS at the minute, if you give me 2 hours I will have it on this machine
<Yagisan> gooseuk: It tells me what ethernet chipset you system uses
<Yagisan> gooseuk: 1:21am here
<gooseuk> Aussie land?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: yep
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: sydney?
<gooseuk> Lad, I can't thank you enough, your helping me out big time
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: yes
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: i love your place
<Yagisan> gooseuk: buy some of my security services :)
<gooseuk> What security services? 
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I'm a e-security consultant - I do things including penteration testing, vpns, data recovery
<gooseuk> Oh, well I am working for a primary school, we are basically switching over to linux because of cost
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: why does my page look shit http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/ClientSetup
<jsgotangco> err JamieJones?
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> let me fix that
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: yes - thats what the tax department calls me
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I just did the most awful hack of a job pasting in my instructions
<gooseuk> don't worry about it 
<gooseuk> if it works, it works
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I will clean it up a bit tommorow after jsgotangco makes it look better
<gooseuk> No problem, its great that you could help me with
<Yagisan> gooseuk: but that is the way to make boot cd's, I need to add how to make it boot from hard disk - like in my office
<Yagisan> thanks jsgotangco
* Yagisan is a wiki virgin
<jsgotangco> ahh its pretty easy once you get the syntax
<jsgotangco> we use it for almost everything
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: I have only edited a wiki 3 times, the first two where cut'n'paste
<jsgotangco> cut n paste wont work unless it has wiki syntax
<jsgotangco> line breaks should have one more white space in between
<Yagisan> ok
<Solo> Hello, I need a very simple question....
* Yagisan should go to bed
<jsgotangco> hi
<Solo> response....
<Solo> How is the sources.list in edubuntu?
<jsgotangco> its the same with ubuntu
<Solo> aha
<Solo> ok
<Solo> so... what is the differente?
<Solo> the installation?
<Yagisan> Goodnight all, catch you tomorrow
<gooseuk> Night, thanks for the help
<jsgotangco> Solo: additional apps are installed, server is the default
<Solo> ok
<jsgotangco> but it uses the same repositories
<jsgotangco> so its possible to have your ubuntu become an edubuntu
<Solo> Do you know what apps ?
<Solo> Do you tell me any apps?
<Solo> I have install a ubuntu for kids...
<Solo> and I dont know where find any software for thems
<Solo> they*
<jsgotangco> its has KDE Edu, Gcompris, Blender, and more
<jsgotangco> tux math
<Solo> blender?
<jsgotangco> its a 3d app
<Solo> Ok, very thanks, i solvent my question
<jsgotangco> hey vzl
<CuriousCat> oh yay! I've been waiting for the mirrors of edubuntu to sync! :D
* vzl is nearly done with the iso
<vzl> 9 minutes to complete.
<mhz> hip
<mhz> arkan0x: ping
<gooseuk> Hey Mhz
<gooseuk> You got time for a quick question
<toothpick> What is the school program channel?
<mhz> toothpick: ?
<mhz> schooltool?
<toothpick> y thanks
<mhz> #schooltool
<JohnnyCastaway> Anyone here?
<amarin> hello
<mhz> hi
<amarin> do you know what are the difernces between Edibuntu and Ubuntu?
<[daedalus] > amarin: Ubuntu is just 1 workstation, Edubuntu is much more
<[daedalus] > check the wiki for more info
<amarin> I would install it at home so my kids could start learning Linux, but can I install my developer web server in this edition?
<amarin> I mean: can I find all I find in a regular edition of Ret Hat in Edubuntu?
<mhz> yes
<mhz> amarin: Edubuntu is oriented to provide educational tools to 6-18 year old people. Also, help teachers ease their jobs.
<mhz> Edubuntu is based on Ubuntu. Ubuntu is based on Debian
<mhz> Debian GnluLinux just rocks!
<amarin> great
<mhz> amarin: The basic tech idea behind edubuntu is that you have the chance to install a LTSP environment.
<mhz> do kno wLTSP?
<amarin> On last question: where can I download de DVD version?
<mhz> amarin: do know LTSP?
<amarin> nop
<mhz> amarin: LTSP is Linux Terminal Server Project, which means that you have 1 server and the rest are called clients. All clients BOOT from the server. The server provides everything the clients need.
<mhz> In the end, users of the clients (workstations booted from server) can't tell the difference because the are seeing a real Linux environemnt, such as Gnome, Firefox, etc.
<mhz> But they get all of those screens from the server.
<mhz> So, you don't isntall anything on clients, just 1 server. Therefore, you may rduce costs of admining a system.
<amarin> I undertand
<amarin> so what do you recoment to install in a workstation environment?
<mhz> nop, i recommend you just hit <enter> at boot prompt and so install the edubuntu completely
<mhz> if you do not want LTSP, you just do not use it :)
<mhz> but maybe, one day soon you'll want to give it a try
<amarin> sure!
<amarin> Can I install Edubunto to share the pc with windows, in diferent HDs or partitions?
<mhz> yes
<mhz> like any other linux distro
<amarin> excellent, thanks!
<mhz> np
<mhz> hope you enjoy it
<amarin> ;-)
#edubuntu 2005-10-20
<gooseuk> Hey... I need help
<gooseuk> Any one?
<mhz> gooseuk: hi
<mhz> what's wrong?
<gooseuk> Hey!
<gooseuk> I installed the OS onto a new hard drive on my system to test it, but I can't connect to the internet through the router now
<gooseuk> What information do I need to correctly allow the computer to access the net?
<mhz> hmm
<mhz> let me get this right...
<mhz> you have: Edubuntu on a HD, 1 eth0, 1 router, 1 ISP ?
<gooseuk> yes
<mhz> only 1 ethX?
<gooseuk> I just entered 127.0.0.0 for the ip information on install, it was confusing
<mhz> haaaa
<mhz> no way
<mhz> you did not read Install Notes  :D
<gooseuk> nope, I guess I will just try it again in the morning lol
<gooseuk> where are the install notes?
<mhz> ok, let's fix it immediately, shall we?
<gooseuk> sure
<mhz> ok, do you have access to this IRC while we work on the Edubuntu box
<mhz> ?
<gooseuk> Erm, give me two minutes
<mhz> okidoki, however, it is pretty simple
<gooseuk> Ok
<mhz> you tell mw when we start
<mhz> please ping me
<gooseuk> np thank you, it will be about a minute
<mhz> np
<gooseuk> mhz: Ready
<mhz> okidoki
<mhz> so, first thing, please run a Terminal
<mhz> .oO(maybe there's a GUI way, but I have never used it)
<gooseuk> How do I open a terminal
<mhz> or... At the menu upper bar you should have an option like System or Preferences?
<gooseuk> I do
<mhz> ok
<mhz> the one at the right most side should present you a Network something. Please read me those options
<gooseuk> Erm I don't understand, what option do you want me to open in the preferences menu
<mhz> do not open, just read me thos options that mention 'network' please
<gooseuk> Erm I have found a network settings window
<mhz> ok
<mhz> that one!
<gooseuk> Great :(
<gooseuk> :)
<mhz> that will ask you for password
<mhz> enter the user password
<gooseuk> ::nods:: done
<mhz> ok, there it will show/mention to you eth0.
<mhz> is eth0 Active?
<gooseuk> its active
<mhz> ok, what ip number?
<gooseuk> 255.0.0.0
<mhz> hhm, of this is what we'll do. very simpply/
<mhz> we need to have an ip # like: 192.168.0.1
<mhz> ip address: 192.168.0.1
<mhz> then
<mhz> netmask: 255.255.255.0
<mhz> what other fields are there to be filled in or change on eth0?
<gooseuk> gateway
<mhz> gatway: 192.168.0.1
<gooseuk> ok now what
<mhz> other fields?
<gooseuk> no other fields
<mhz> ok
<gooseuk> just click ok?
<mhz> besides eth0 tab, are there any other tabs?
<gooseuk> General / DNS / Hosts
<mhz> Can you read me the info on those fields, please?
<gooseuk> General - Hostname: + Domain name:
<gooseuk> DNS - DNS Servers: ADD
<gooseuk> Hosts - ip address + aliases
<alison_> can anyone help me out with the "next step" after freshly installing edubuntu? I think I need to configure my dhcpd.conf, but I'm not sure what should go in there.
<mhz> alison_: yes we can. gimme a couple of minutes, please
<alison_> sure. thanks.
<mhz> alison_: however, id you provided a valid ip during install, then nothing else to edit :D just bootup your clients via PXE
<mhz> gooseuk: then we need to set Hostname and DNS
<mhz> hostname is the name you want the machine to be called
<alison_> I tried, and got an error like: PXE-E11: ARP timeout
<mhz> (i suggest you choose one word)
<gooseuk> rgr done
<mhz> alison_: then i need a little bit of extra info from the install you did
<alison_> ok
<mhz> gooseuk: now, DNS info. Do you have that? (we can skipt it anyways :D )
<gooseuk> I don't have it, shoot
<mhz> ok
<mhz> then save those changes you just made
<gooseuk> ok done
<mhz> cool
<gooseuk> internet still not working :/
<mhz> how do you paln to boot the clients?
<mhz> gooseuk: yes, of course.
<mhz> gooseuk: oooh,, excuse me, Very important question:
<mhz> usually, all clients get internet from the router?
<gooseuk> yes
<mhz> duh!
<gooseuk> through a hub to the router
<gooseuk> Id that a problem?
<mhz> so my guess is that a) you manually assign IPs to each client or b) the router provides IP to each client
<mhz> if it is a) then we are ok by doing this. if it's b) then the router will do it automatically
<mhz> :D
<gooseuk> I installed mandrake before and it could connect to the internet straight away... hmm do you have the link to the install notes?
<mhz> oooh, then the router assigns the IP automatically!
<mhz> hehehehe
<gooseuk> so why doesn't this work then?
<mhz> because we assigned IP manually and did not let the router work :D
<gooseuk> I had tried it before we changed the settings and it still didn't work
<mhz> gooseuk: solution is: go back to Network settings and in eth0 specify "automatic"
<gooseuk> ok, do you have the link for install notes?
* mhz seeing wiki
<gooseuk> mhz: thanks for your help again, I will have a look at it again in the mornin, going to get some sleep lol
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<mhz> gooseuk: if router assigns ip automatically, you need to stop manual ip
<mhz> otherwise it will not work
<gooseuk> how can I stop it
<mhz> assign "automatic" in Network Settings for eth0 and save that config.
* mhz actually always does it via command line. that's why he gets confused woth GUI way
<gooseuk> whats the command line for it?
<mhz> sudo /etc/init.d/networking stop
<mhz> then...
<mhz> sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces
<mhz> change 'static' for 'dhcp' in eth0 line
<mhz> then...
<mhz> sudo /etc/init.d/networking start
<mhz> and finally...
<mhz> sudo nano /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<mhz> and make sure that matches the IP settings provded by router
<mhz> :)
<mhz> and finally...
<mhz> sudo /etc/init.d/dhcpd restart
<mhz> adn you're ready
<gooseuk> how do i find out if it matches the ip normally given out
<mhz> in a command line environment or terminal
<mhz> write 
<mhz> ifconfig
<mhz> that will show you the current settings assigned to eth0 and lo
<gooseuk> ok
<gooseuk> thanks again mhz, will try it in the morning
<gooseuk> night
<mhz> nite
<mhz> alison_: shoot
<alison_> ok, well I followed that link to the install notes, and I configured my dhcpd.conf. I'm currently fiddling with my client and about to try booting again
<mhz> did you edit /ltsp/dhcpd.conf?
<mhz> or /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf?
<alison_> I edited /etc/ltsp/dhcps.conf
<mhz> cool
<alison_> *dhcpd
<alison_> still the same error
<alison_> PXE-E11: ARP timeout
<mhz> does it correspond to same current IP in ifconfig?
<mhz> I had same exact error for 19 hours until i saw the problem :D
<mhz> alison_: if IP settings are ok on /network/interfaces and /ltsp/dhcpd.conf then another question:
<alison_> well, I'm running two ethernet interfaces. eth0 is connected to the switch which goes to the clients. it's setup with a static IP. that's the IP I used in the dhcpd.conf
<mhz> what is there between the server and client. crossover cable? 
<mhz> oh, a swithc
<mhz> switch
<alison_> yup
<mhz> so..
<mhz> server -> eth0 static -> switch -> clients ?
<alison_> yes, that's right.
<mhz> can we double check /dhcpd.conf please?
<mhz> could you paste it here?
<alison_> ok
<mhz> cool
<alison_> oops, I'm on a different computer, so this will be a little tricky
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> sorry
<alison_> authoritative;
<alison_> subnet 192.168.2.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
<alison_> 	range 192.168.2.20 192.168.2.250;
<alison_> 	option domain-name "example.com";
<alison_> 	option domain-name-server 192.168.0.1;
<alison_> 	option broadcast-address 192.168.2.255;
<alison_> 	option routers 192.168.0.1;
<alison_> 	option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
<alison_> 
<alison_> 	filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<alison_> 	option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386"
<alison_> }
<mhz> ok
<alison_> I set my static IP on eth0 to 192.168.2.1
<mhz> could you please comment the line: option domain-name-server 192.168.0.1
<alison_> ok
<mhz> and change option routers to 192.168.2.1
<mhz> oh, no wait
<mhz> you don't have a router right? you have a switch?
<mhz> if yu have a switch, then do hange to 192.168.2.1
<mhz> so that it matches your static IP
<alison_> I'm connected to a router on eth1, using DHCP, but the switch is going to the clients
<mhz> yes, then it should work. BUT could you please just desconnect the eth1 for this tests
<mhz> ?
<alison_> sure
<mhz> usually, 2 dhcps running is conflictive
<mhz> and I wanna make sure we are attacking step by step
<alison_> so I should set the option routers to my eth0 static IP
<mhz> yes
<alison_> ok
<mhz> now, /etc/init.d/dhcpd restart  , of course :)
<mhz> are you sure your static ip is currently 192.168.2.1 ?
<mhz> also, please make sure the /etc/inet.d is pointing to right /dir for /ltsp
<alison_> ifconfig shows eth0 having "inet addr:192.168.2.1
<mhz> ok
<mhz> and inetd.conf?
<mhz> tftp           dgram   udp     wait    root  /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/
<mhz> tftpboot  ?
<alison_> which? I'm confused.
<mhz> /etc/inetd.conf
<alison_> ok
* mhz feels very relief alison_ can work on command lines :D
<alison_> hehe... well, I've been using ubuntu on my main box since May... just a dummy at ltsp stuff
* mhz gets confused with GUIs :D
<alison_> lol
<mhz> no problem, i was a dummy until last friday 
<mhz> lol
<pitux> hello
<mhz> hello
<alison_> ok, inetd.conf has:
<alison_> tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd - s /var/lib/tftpboot
<alison_> looks like what you posted
<mhz> yesp
<mhz> so let's give this baby a try
<alison_> ok
<mhz> before.. you do have /opt/....
<mhz> alison_: you did restarted dhcp, right?
<alison_> I restarted it, yes
<mhz> okidoki
<mhz> did the client boot?
<alison_> this time it appeared to boot, and it's now stopped after a whole bunch of text with "Done." and then a little blinking _
<mhz> cool!!!
<mhz> i had that too
<mhz> simple to solve
<alison_> oh, now it's trying to boot some more...
<mhz> re try to boot the client
<alison_> it's trying to sync the clock with ntp, which i'm supposing won't work
<mhz> it happens like twice
<mhz> oh, it is working then???????????????
<mhz> educool!!
<alison_> I got a login screen~
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> do you feel good now?
<alison_> absolutely!! thank you so much.
<mhz> no problem
<mhz> now, we gotta make your internet work plugin eth1
<alison_> actually, I gotta get logged in... it keeps booting me back to the login screen... maybe because I only have one account, and I'm logged in on that on the server?
<mhz> no
<mhz> that happens -supposedly- because you need to update your ssh keys
<mhz> ogra provided me with a command lin to do so.. let me get in in my logs
<alison_> ok
<alison_> a login screen never looked so beautiful
<mhz> hehehe
* mhz still diggin in the logs
<mhz> alison_: ltsp-update-sshkeys
<alison_> ok, done
<mhz> and can you login now?
<alison_> no... do I need to restart anything?
<mhz> hmmm, don't know I have not yet tried that solution
<mhz> :D
<mhz> i was wiking some docs when I started the help to goosuek
<alison_> lol... ok... lemme try again
<mhz> and then you :)
<alison_> oh, so is that why things were appearing there that I never saw before? lol
<mhz> lol
<mhz> alison_: please do let me know if that ssh updating worked
<mhz> alison_: obviously, IF does work :D
<alison_> nope, still can't log in. it goes to a black screen, then comes back to the login
<mhz> hmmmmm
<mhz> and you rebooted?
<alison_> rebooted the client
<alison_> should I reboot the server?
<mhz> ah, but the server?
<mhz> what's there to lose now?
<mhz> :D
<alison_> heh heh... I'm just so used to almost never having to reboot in this world of linux
<mhz> me too, but after so many hours, my head can't hink of a logical reason while ogra is not here
<mhz> ogra needed a hughe rest so I am not complaining
<alison_> :)
<alison_> *sigh* still a no-go.
<mhz> hmmm
* mhz thinking
<alison_> is it normal to see several things fail and lots of complaining about fstab during the client bootup?
<mhz> meybe
<alison_> is xdmcp necessary? I keep reading about it on the LTSP docs, but it doesn't appear to be installed on my server
<mhz> alison_: so far, i am getting blocked
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> i wish i could understand tonite
<alison_> no problem
<alison_> alright, I have to go. I will probably be back asking more questions later or tomorrow. :)
<alison_> Thanks again for your help. you at least got me off to a good start.
<mhz> educool!
* mhz is going home, maybe
<alison_> mhz: if you happen to get any info on this, maybe post it on the wiki? :)
<mhz> of course
<alison_> thanks
<alison_> have a good night
<mhz> but you please specifyu the problem on
<mhz> UserComments
<alison_> oh, ok, I'll do that
* mhz heading home
<mwright1night> Hi all
<mwright1night> I'm after a package called Teachers pet
<mwright1night> how do I find it
<mwright1night> i've installed edubuntu
<mwright1night> 5.10 breezy release
<Nancy> http://www.teachers-pet.org/index.html
<Nancy> ?
<mwright1night> not very funny
<mwright1night> teachers pet is the replacement of teachers tool
<mwright1night> and i've been looking all over
<Nancy> Thats what this site says it is.
<Nancy> But I guess you want something else.
<Nancy> http://www.kacper.com/teacherspet/teacherspet.html
<Nancy> This one?
<mwright1night> it's the replacement for k12ltsp's teacher tool
<mwright1night> which runs vnc in various ways too and from terminal server clients
<mwright1night> it's supposed to be core edubuntu software
<Nancy> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/TeachersPet?highlight=%28Teacher%29
<Nancy> This one.
<Nancy> OK.
<Nancy> You tried TeachersTool?
<Nancy> Looks like its a to-do.  Not implemented yet.
<pedersoj> test
<pedersoj> Test
<watanabe88> hello
<watanabe88> anyone here
<swamych> can i expect free edubuntu cds
<ajmitch_> \win 41
<ajmitch_> hm
<Jeromee> good mornin ogra
<ogra> moin
<Jeromee> I think I slept to much
<Jeromee> 14hrs
<Jeromee> 0_o
<ogra> i'm still taking up on my lack of sleep :)
<Jeromee> hehe
<Jeromee> I was up for ~60hrs before I crashed though
<Jeromee> everytime I'd go and try to sleep, I'd just wake up again
<Jeromee> I hate that shit.
<ogra> similar here... and we had release party yesterday night, so not much sleep either
<Jeromee> ah yeah, I have a party today at 1
<Jeromee> I think
<gooseuk> Hello any one around?
<gooseuk> I need some help with trying to access my NTFS drives on the computer
<juliux> re
<gooseuk> RE?
<Jeromee> damn
<Jeromee> my 200GB hd is full.
<Jeromee> =O
<gooseuk> I had to get another 80 GB hard drive for this OS lol
<JohnnyCastaway> Can anyone help with install probs?
<gooseuk> I wish I could help you
<JohnnyCastaway> I have d/led 3 times burned 6 cd's all md5sums checkout used 3 different burners 3 different pc's 2 hd's and cant get past 6% of base install
<gooseuk> What speed are you burning the CDs at?
<JohnnyCastaway> 48 40 32 24 2 1 take your pick...went slower rach time it failed
<JohnnyCastaway> each
<gooseuk> I burnt mine at x8, it burnt well
<gooseuk> What version of the program did you download?
<JohnnyCastaway> Ubuntu works well I just cannot get edubuntu to work
<JohnnyCastaway> <edubuntu-5.10-install-i386.iso>
<gooseuk> Weird...
<gooseuk> It could be a hardware issue I suppose
<JohnnyCastaway> I know...AND REALLY PISSING ME OFF
<JohnnyCastaway> Ubuntu burned fine its edubuntu
<JohnnyCastaway> That wont
<gooseuk> I can't understand why it wouldn't work
<JohnnyCastaway> I even used nero then dvd decrypter to burn
<JohnnyCastaway> Im gonna give it 1 last shot on all new equipment
<Yagisan> gooseuk: sudo mount -t ntfs /dev/hda1 /mount/windows
<Yagisan> gooseuk: replace /dev/hda with your windows partition
<Yagisan> gooseuk: replace /mount/windows with where you want to access it
<JohnnyCastaway> I wanna just del my windows partition
<gooseuk> Yagisan: How on earth do I find the floppy drive?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: it's dev/fd0 - but I don't have one - so I forgot where it is mounted
<gooseuk> I have a problem then
<Yagisan> JohnnyCastaway; when you install - you have an option to delete the partions
<Yagisan> gooseuk: as far as I can tell - you can't access the floppys on the clients yet
<JohnnyCastaway> I let it set its own up...
<gooseuk> Yagisan: erm... is there a way around that?  
<JohnnyCastaway> Does this have a good assortment of proggies for kids to learn on?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: as yet - no, but check with ogra
<Yagisan> JohnnyCastaway: yes - can you use fdisk ?
<JohnnyCastaway> Its been a while since I have
<Yagisan> JohnnyCastaway: there is an application called cfdisk, you can use that to delete a windows partition
<gooseuk> Error: given UDI is not a mountable volume
<Yagisan> gooseuk: you will need to adjust my example for your specific setup
<gooseuk> What does that mean? Thats the error I get when I double click on the floppy icon
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I think it means can't find floppy drive
<gooseuk> damm, thats going to be a problem
<Yagisan> gooseuk: server ?
<gooseuk> yeah this is the server version i am running
<Yagisan> gooseuk: or clients need it ?
<gooseuk> All of the systems need floppy access
<JohnnyCastaway> They do?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: best to speak to ogra about this
<Yagisan> JohnnyCastaway: just for what gooseuk wants to do
<JohnnyCastaway> I havent built a pc with a floppy in years
<JohnnyCastaway> Oh ok
<JohnnyCastaway> Had me worried there
<Yagisan> guys - what arches are you using ? ppc ? amd64 ? i386 ?
<JohnnyCastaway> i386
<gooseuk> Roger Yagisan, also I have another problem, can I have different menu options for different users
<gooseuk> i386
<JohnnyCastaway> If I can get it going
<Yagisan> gooseuk: it's a yes but answer too that
<gooseuk> Do you know how to do it?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: are you adding or removing - I know how to add
<gooseuk> Well for the student accounts I want menus removed
<Yagisan> gooseuk: what menus ?
<gooseuk> Admin section in the System menu
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I don't see an option to remove it - unless you are a member of the group admin you can't run it anyway
<gooseuk> Ok great :)
<Yagisan> gooseuk: only first user created when installing the server has admin rights
<gooseuk> This floppy disk issue is going to be a problem :/ 
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I'm sure it can be fixed - I think ogra is celebrating the breezy release - he's normally here
<gooseuk> The kids use floppy disks to bring their homework back home and then put them back on the system
<JohnnyCastaway> Get thumb drives
<gooseuk> I hope so... Hopefully you guys can come up with a fix before friday...
<gooseuk> You mean USB drives?
<JohnnyCastaway> Bigger and hot plug supports them
<JohnnyCastaway> yes
<gooseuk> School can't afford them
<JohnnyCastaway> Mommy and daddy can...
<gooseuk> In this case only some could
<JohnnyCastaway> Use a group buy through the school
<JohnnyCastaway> Get a discount
<Yagisan> JohnnyCastaway: not all boxes have usb
<JohnnyCastaway> So much for that idea then
<gooseuk> ::nods:: But again cost is an issue, its an underfunded school, in a underpriviledged area
<JohnnyCastaway> Well than not all will have pc access at home either
<gooseuk> ::nods:: but some do, thats the issue, it still has to have that basic feature, not to mention teachers
<gooseuk> They need that type of access
<JohnnyCastaway> Be back shortly time to pick kids up
<gooseuk> Yagisan: How do I install a internet filter to this client?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: on the system that you installed squid on - install dansguardian
<gooseuk> how do I install dansguardian?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: synaptic - search dansguardian
<gooseuk> Ok I think its installed
<Yagisan> gooseuk: there is documentation is /usr/share/doc/dansguardian
<Yagisan> gooseuk: and here http://dansguardian.org/
<gooseuk> how do I get there?
<gooseuk> I can't find any thing about dansguardian in any menu
<Yagisan> gooseuk: applications -> Assecories -> File Browser and navigate to /usr/share/doc/dansguardian
<Yagisan> gooseuk: dansguardian is an add on for squid
<Yagisan> gooseuk: it won't have a menu of it's own
<gooseuk> Ok I found the documents for dansguardian?
<Yagisan> gooseuk: hopefully they should be clear about how to configure it
<gooseuk> I can't understand how I can start it etc..
<Yagisan> gooseuk: squid is installed right ?
<gooseuk> no...
<Yagisan> gooseuk: dansguardian is a webfilter that hooks into squid (the www-proxy)
<gooseuk> Installing as we speak
<Yagisan> gooseuk: it will automatically filter all www traffic that goes through squid - no client configuration required
<gooseuk> ok I installed squid etc
<gooseuk> I even installed a web admin feature
<Yagisan> gooseuk: have a look at the website I listed - it has some useful information on the filter
<Yagisan> gooseuk: cool - you'll hate me now - but I haven't configured squid in a long time so I have to RTFM to tell you what to do now
<Yagisan> gooseuk: I just know what you need to use
<gooseuk> I have a problem I can't access this web admin thing, it is asking for a username and password, I tryied my root username and password and nothing
<gooseuk> Shit, its blocked me now! lol
<Yagisan> gooseuk: sorry, I'm trying to get up to speed with it (last time I used it - it didn't even have web admin)
<gooseuk> Lad, don't worry, you are helping me out alot
<Yagisan> gooseuk: there is a user guide here (450k) http://squid-docs.sourceforge.net/latest/book-full.html
<gooseuk> hmm I don't know where to start, I am not sure how to even start it 
<Yagisan> gooseuk: squid will automatically start itself on system boot
<gooseuk> So I have to reboot?
<Yagisan> squid should start dansguardian once it has been configured to use it
<Yagisan> gooseuk: no, a sudo/etic/ini.d/squid restart should work
<gooseuk> it says no such file or directory
<Yagisan> gooseuk: typo. sudo/etc/init.d/squid restart
<gooseuk> Still no such file or directory
<Yagisan> gooseuk: should not be a space between sudo and /
<Yagisan> gooseuk: be back soon - need to put little girl to bed
<gooseuk> no problem, but it still doesn't work
<JohnnyCastaway> Does edubuntu fit on a cd-rw?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> 700MB
<gooseuk> I have a problem, I can't edit a tinyproxy.conf file... do you know of a reason why now?
<gooseuk> not*
<gooseuk> How do I change permissions
<JohnnyCastaway> Ok new disc and 4x rw
<jsgotangco> awesome that'll work
<JohnnyCastaway> Hasnt yet this is number 8
<JohnnyCastaway> 4 d/l all mathing md5sums
<JohnnyCastaway> And thin is a brand new machine
<JohnnyCastaway> matching
<JohnnyCastaway> this
<JohnnyCastaway> Ok 8 tries and it failed again
<JohnnyCastaway> How do I check /target/var/log/bootstarp.log
<JohnnyCastaway> It contiuously fails install base system
<gooseuk> i would say hardware then
<JohnnyCastaway> 3 different machines?
<JohnnyCastaway> How do I check /target/var/log/bootstarp.log
<JohnnyCastaway> How do I check /target/var/log/bootstrap.log
<JohnnyCastaway> Is this picky about master/slave drive issues?\
<Robla64> anyone home?
<JohnnyCastaway> Should I use lvm when partitioning the hard drive?
<JohnnyCastaway> Libcurses.so.n.5 cannot open shared object file this is the error I get in terminal f3 any help?
<JohnnyCastaway> No n
<JohnnyCastaway> Reburn no.9
<JohnnyCastaway> #9 may have been the lucky number today made it past 6%
<juliux> somebody nows which cheap thinclients works with edubuntu?
<Jeromee> bigger, the better
<Jeromee> :-D
<juliux> hm i search a diskless version
<JohnnyCastaway> 9 disks later we made it to phase 2 and booted from the hd
<JohnnyCastaway> Is 6gb enough for edubuntu?
<juliux> JohnnyCastaway, yes 
<JohnnyCastaway> More and more probs
<juliux> but it is not very much space for user files
<JohnnyCastaway> Now its missing gcompris
<juliux> hm 
<juliux> i have no install problems
<juliux> do you use the final?
<juliux> cu all
<JohnnyCastaway> I used the 1 on the site..i think its final
#edubuntu 2005-10-21
<gand> hi all
<gand> what about 5.10 PPC iso?
<gand> what about 5.10 PPC iso?
<enyc> dand: that was not released due to ''stupid bug'' r.er ltsp  apparently
<enyc> gand: that was not released due to ''stupid bug'' r.er ltsp  apparently
<enyc> r.e. ltsp
<JohnnyCastaway> 10th install works fine now
<jsgotangco> hello
<Yagisan> \sh - you gave my multi-client-arch patches a test ?
<\sh> Yagisan: ogra had..I was the test candidate ;)
<ajmitch_> hey Yagisan 
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> \sh: I hope you're looking at malone 3014
<Yagisan> \sh: amd64 server + i386 client ?
<ajmitch_> jabberd2 bug, shall I reassign to MOTUIM?
<\sh> Yagisan: yepp
<\sh> ajmitch_: moment
<ajmitch_> probably OT for here, but I'm sure that jabber has an educational use ;)
<\sh> ajmitch_: leave it for motu....I think this behaviour is upstream....
<\sh> jabberd2 is a mess sometimes :(
<ajmitch_> ok
<\sh> I'd set a bookmark to it
<\sh> Yagisan: test case was
<\sh> amd64 server, dhcp on amd64, connection from amd64 to lan via wlan...
<\sh> client i386 -> pxe boot from amd64 server via wired lan, routing was done via wlan from amd64
<\sh> result: works ;)
<\sh> very uncommon routing scenario...but hey ;)
<Yagisan> \sh: excellent - I already deployed amd64 server + dhcp on amd64, but my i386 clients boot with etherboot
<Yagisan> \sh: qemu isn't yet up to the task of extending the patch yet :(
<\sh> Yagisan: well...at least there is a new + for edubuntu for the next release
<Yagisan> \sh: yep, all we need now is local apps :)
<highvoltage> hi everyone
<Yagisan> G'day highvoltage
<highvoltage> Hi Mr Jones
<Yagisan> highvoltage, only the government calls me that, even my family call me Yagisan :)
<highvoltage> hehe
<highvoltage> whenever i see someones surname is 'Jones' I think of the counting crows song
<highvoltage> so saying Mr Jones at some stage is inevitable, at least i got it out of the way now ;)
<Yagisan> the funny thing about having Jones as a surname is that the police don't think it is your real name
<Yagisan> because it's such a popular surname
<Yagisan> so whats up highvoltage ?
<highvoltage> dreading monday, mostly. :)
<highvoltage> i need to take a few days leave to relax but just haven't had the chance yet.
<highvoltage> i think i just have to come to terms that i'm a workoholic
<Yagisan> It's already monday here
<Yagisan> you must like what you do then
<highvoltage> lucky you, you're closer to friday :)
<highvoltage> i do. intensely :)
<highvoltage> then again, i like everything i do. if i can't enjoy what i'm doing, then there's probably not much point in doing it.
<Yagisan> meh - I have to find customers - now (I have $10au left =-O )
<highvoltage> ah, australian
<highvoltage> where in .au do you live?
<Yagisan> Sydney, (Lidcombe, about 20 minute walk to Olympic site)
<highvoltage> wow, what a fantastic city to live in.
<Yagisan> highvoltage - could you look here and tell me what you think http://users.tpg.com.au/yagisan/index.html
<highvoltage> i think that's one of very few places where i'd live rather than here.
<Yagisan> I'm redesigning the website and have done a mockup
<highvoltage> i'll have to look tomorrow, have very, very little internet access right now (on GPRS atm)
<Yagisan> It's too expensive here
<Yagisan> GPRS - mobile phone ?
<Yagisan> highvoltage - you're in South Africa ?
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> Yagisan: are you an ubuntu developer?
<Yagisan> highvoltage: no, I "freelance"
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I develop on what I use for work
<Yagisan> highvoltage: what do you need/want ?
<highvoltage> that's a tough question. i guess i'd have to say a 30 hour day.
<highvoltage> no, sorry, i take that back.
<highvoltage> i think we all need three day weekends.
<highvoltage> it would solve many problems around the world.
<Yagisan> I'd like an extra pair of hands, and eyes in the back of my head while I'm at it
<highvoltage> and because people will technically work less, companies will have to hire more people, and the world unemployment rate will go down rapidly.
<highvoltage> why an extra two hands? i think 3 hands is perfectly adequate..
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I would love to hire people, but I'm having a hard time convincing businesses to spend money
<Yagisan> highvoltage: you must not have kids yet ..
<highvoltage> nope, how did you deduct this? :)
<Yagisan> highvoltage: after you have kids, you'll realise that you need at least four hands for them
<highvoltage> ah, good point. i'll keep that in mind if i ever have the oppertunity to get more hands.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: If you get some, send an extra pair (or two) my way :)
<highvoltage> ok.
* highvoltage wonders where the #edubuntu regulars are
* Yagisan thinks they are still hungover
<highvoltage> must be.
<highvoltage> Yagisan: what do you think about the edubuntu webpage?
<Yagisan> highvoltage: the front page has a cute childrens feel to it
<Yagisan> highvoltage: It does feel slow though
<highvoltage> i think all the ubuntu sites are getting slower and slower
<highvoltage> the wiki is especially slow.
<highvoltage> i wonder if it's the high demand.
<highvoltage> perhaps it's because so many people are downloading breezy, so there's little bandwidth.
<Yagisan> I ended up deciding against a wiki because all wikis I've used are slow
<Yagisan> I'm doing hand crafted html + css, with about 4-5 small images a page
<Yagisan> a lot of people here still are on dialup
<highvoltage> hand crafted is cool.
<highvoltage> broadband in south africa doesn't really exist, so dial-up is still very popular here as well.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I makes me feel old, I haven't hand crafted html since 2001
<Yagisan> highvoltage: the link I posted would probably come up over gprs rather quickly
<highvoltage> i checked it over gprs (but without images to reduce cost) looks nice.
<highvoltage> content management systems are sometimes useful, but mostly overrated.
<Yagisan> thanks highvoltage, I did the colour scheme to match my business cards, I don't know if the css menus will flyout on IE though
<Jeromee> Yagisan: do you have the website hosted, I could check now if you'd like
<Yagisan> Jeromee: the layout mockup is here http://users.tpg.com.au/yagisan/index.html
<Yagisan> links are dummys
<Jeromee> yeah, it doesn't show up to well in IE
<Jeromee> Its cutting off the first letter of each word for the menu bar
<Jeromee> like home is seen as "ome"
<Yagisan> Jeromee: could you dcc me a screenshot
<Jeromee> I can't dcc
<Jeromee> but I can surely host the image for you
<Jeromee> one second
<Yagisan> Jeromee: looks like I'll need conditional css for that :(
<Jeromee> sorry for the overall size of this image, I have a dual monitors
<Yagisan> Jeromee: that won't be a problem - thanks for the screenshot
<Jeromee> pm for link
<Jeromee> if you need anything else
<Yagisan> Jeromee: that looks almost nothing like it does under firefox or konqueror
<Jeromee> just let me know
<Jeromee> I'll check it under my firefox too
<Jeromee> hmm
<Jeromee> looks fine in firefox
<Jeromee> :-P
<Jeromee> IE just sucks at life.
<Yagisan> Jeromee: did the flyovers work ?
<Jeromee> what are "flyovers"?
<Jeromee> I'm not much into webdesign
<Jeromee> like, where you hover over home
<Yagisan> Jeromee: If you mouse over the menus they should pop out
<Jeromee> and the "site map" box pops up?
<Jeromee> yeah
<Yagisan> yep
<Jeromee> works
<Jeromee> :-)
<Yagisan> I'm not a web designer either
<Jeromee> yeah
<Jeromee> I hate web design
<Jeromee> I'm pretty good with managing servers though
<Jeromee> atleast, on freebsd
<Jeromee> :-)
<Jeromee> I have yet to try edubuntu, but, I've yet to get a computer completely rebuilt the way I like it to bother to install linux
<Yagisan> I'd rather be hacking away at networks, but I've got to eat and feed a family, so create a website i must
<Jeromee> hehe, yeah
<Jeromee> I don't have to worry about the family thing
<Jeromee> just gotta worry about feeding bruce, my pet fish
<Yagisan> edubuntu is nice for education, but it's not quite right for me
<Yagisan> I just contribute my patches back though
<Jeromee> yeah, I tend to find freebsd more to my needs
<Jeromee> but, I'm definatly going to give it a shot
<Yagisan> Jeromee: your windows box - I doesn't have CJK fonts does it
<Jeromee> no, don't believe so
<Yagisan> Jeromee: that explains the boxes then
<Jeromee> basically just a default install with updates, and some security
<highvoltage> ok, bye everyone!
<Yagisan> night all
<gooseuk> Afternoon folks
<gooseuk> anyone with the living?
<spacey_ki> :)
<spacey_ki> not sure
<spacey_ki> partly
<spacey_ki> whats up
<gooseuk> Well I was wondering if one the developers can fix the floppy problem
<spacey_ki> THE floppy problem?
<spacey_ki> whats that?
<Rotan> hi!
<Rotan> ... is edubuntu appropriate for, say, a college campus to put in libraries and such?
<spacey_ki> ..
<alison> Is there anyone here who can help me troubleshoot my server setup?
<spacey_ki> alison, if you state your problem
<alison> I boot my client up, it gets to a login screen. I try to login. Screen goes black, then boots me back to the same login screen.
<alison> mhz was helping me the other night, and he had the same problem. he passed on a potential fix from ogra, which involved updating the ssh keys on the server. I did that, but still have the same problem.
<Rotan> is edubuntu appropriate for a collegiate environment?
<alison> Rotan: The bundled software provided with edubuntu seems more aimed at grade schoolers, and maybe some for highschool. But you could definitely make use of its LTSP capabilities in a collegiate environment.
<alison> Could anyone here with a working server/thin-client setup tell me the output you get running sudo netstat -anp | grep ":177 " ?
<alison> hi ogra, aren't you one of the edubuntu wizards?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> hi
<alison> can you help me: my client boots up, I get a login screen, and then can't log in. screen goes black and then goes back to the login screen.
<alison> mhz suggested I update the ssh keys, and I ran a command to do that... but still a no-go
<ogra> have you looked if /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts contains a key after running the command ? and is sshd running ? 
<alison> i'll check
<alison> there is a bunch of gobbledigook in ssh_known_hosts
<ogra> the login manager needs a running sshd on the server to connect to... :)
<alison> yes sshd is running
<ogra> and the file contains a key ? 
<alison> if a bunch of mixed-up letters and numbers is a key, yes
<ogra> yes, thats a key
<ogra> otherwise it would be empty...
<alison> ok
<ogra> does the user you connect with exist on the server ? 
<alison> yes
<alison> hold on... maybe not?
<dabaR_> Hey, why am I not able at all to edit the wiki, it says page locked ion the top left. I am signed in to wiki.ubuntu.com however, and able to edit.
<ogra> thats very strange... seems all requirements are fulfilled...
<dabaR_> Are you able to? maybe it is just locked.
<alison> I'm going to try it again. the user I thought I created wasn't on the server when I checked it just now.
<ogra> alison, try to set a root password in the chroot environment (sudo /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd) and check the file /var/log/ldm.log on the client... it will tell whats going wrong
<ogra> err
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<ogra> alison, oh, thats the problem then :)
<ogra> dabaR, does it say by whom it is locked ? 
<ogra> probably someone edits it currently
<ogra> i can edit on wiki.edubuntu.org
<dabaR> Not at all.
<dabaR> I mean, not at all does it say by whom.
<dabaR> Well, Ill check when I get home onto my Ubuntu. Thanks.
<dabaR> Im glad edubuntu was released.
<ogra> :)
<alison> now when I try to login, it sits there with just a little clock for the mouse pointer
<gand> hi, no 5.10 PPC final, neither PPC pre yet available :(
<ogra> gand, nope, sorry
<gand> eta?
<ogra> the powerpc install was not tested enough, we discovered a bug in the default install
<ogra> if you want only a workstation install, the last daily isos are still there, they are just not officially released...
<gand> I've pre installed with all update
<ogra> then it should be fine...
<gand> yes althougth sometimes little strange thinghs happens :)
<ogra> the isos on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/ are identical with the release... but note that you currently cant use ltsp on ppc, it has a bad bug
<ogra> which kind of things ? 
<gand> nothing important
<alison> ogra: how exactly do I check the log on the client? I set the chroot passwd.
<gand> probably related to gnome
<ogra> alison, you press ctrl-alt-f1 and login as root with the password you set up before
<gand> as bin icon placed on the left of desktop
<ogra> enev with new users ?
<ogra> *even
<gand> i didn't try
<ogra> alison, then less /var/log/ldm.log and press shift-g to jump to the end of the file...
<gand> meanwhile I've discovered "sudo nautilus" to manage root files using GUI, without terminal
<ogra> eeek
<ogra> dont use file managers as root
<alison> it's not letting me log in as root. I did "sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd" and entered a password. is that right? this stuff is testing the limits of my command line knowledge.  :| 
<ogra> alison, you did run that command on the server, right ? probably you need to reboot the client...
<alison> yes, I run it on the server.
<alison> oh, so I'm logging in as root from the client?
<gand> I did it to manage folder in /var/www/ to install some CMS - LMS
<ogra> *on* the client, yes
<ogra> gand, what if your mouse misbehaves and a essential directory gets moved into any other directory and you didnt notice wher it was dropped ? 
<ogra> or the filemanager has a bug that doesnt show up if you run it as user and it wipes your disk ? 
<alison> ok, now it's working. and I see that the client's connect to ssh is timing out, because it's trying to connect to the wrong IP address.
<ogra> note that filemanagers dont get tested as root normally by the developers
<ogra> oh
<ogra> thats strange...
<ogra> alison, is your server the only server on this network ? 
<ogra> or do you have any nfs server around ? 
<alison> well, there are other computers on the network, but the clients shouldn't be able to access any of them at this point. they're going client -> switch -> server, and the server's got two network cards. the one that's connected to my general LAN is currently disabled.
<ogra> hmm, its a bit weaird...
<alison> no nfs server
<ogra> weird
<ogra> the clients boot fine ? 
<alison> they boot to the login screen fine... they do throw some errors along the way, though
<ogra> thats normal...
<ogra> i havent cleaned up the bootscripts yet, we use all ubuntu default packages, most are not designed for read only filesystems... beautification is for the next release :)
<alison> it looks like the ssh is trying to go to a default IP address rather than the static IP I set up for my server in eth0 and in my dhcpd.conf
<alison> it's trying 192.168.101.254, but my server's set to 192.168.2.1
<ogra> could you run ifconfig ? 
<ogra> and tell me which IP the client has ? 
<alison> 192.168.2.233
<ogra> hmm, should be right
<ogra> can you enter the following :
<ogra> (sed -ne '/ltsp.*nfs/ { s/^\([^:] *\):.*$/\1/; p; q }' /proc/mounts
<alison> still on the client?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> thats the command thats used in the code to get your server ip
<alison> that'll be interesting without cut and paste :)
<ogra> an easy workaround is to ser the SERVER variable in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf ... but i'd like to know why the autodetection misbehaves
<ogra> s/ser/set
<alison> hm, I typed that in, and it gave me a > prompt?
<ogra> ergh
<ogra> hit ctrl-c
<ogra> and omit the first bracket
<alison> the ( before sed?
<ogra> yes
<alison> okay, 192.168.2.1
<ogra> t should give you an ip address
<ogra> hmm, looks right
<alison> indeed
* ogra scratches head
<ogra> did you set the SERVER variable anywhere  ? did you edit or create /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf ?
<alison> I was about to try doing that before you showed up here, but I didn't yet
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> can you try a login on the client and paste the last ...say 30 lines of ldm.log anywhere ? 
<alison> there's not that much in the log, actually
<ogra> you should be able to scp the file to the server..
<alison> it's only nine lines. I could type it in here
<ogra> hmm...
<alison> OpenSSH4.1p1 Debian-7ubuntu4, OpenSSL 0.9.7g 11 Apr 2005
<alison> debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config
<alison> debug1: Applying options for *
<alison> debug1: Connecting to 192.168.101.254 [192.168.101.254]  port 22.
<alison> debug1: connect to address 192.168.101.254 port 22: Connection timed out
<alison> ssh: connect to host 192.168.101.254 port 22: Connection timed out
<alison> (END)
<mwright1night> Quick question
<mwright1night> is edubuntu from the same source repository as ubuntu and kubuntu
<ogra> alison, that doesnt look like login attempt at all...
<mwright1night> just a different default package sleectin?
<ogra> mwright1night, yes
<mwright1night> also does anyone know if the "Teacher Tool" replacement
<ogra> mwright1night, there are edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-server metapackages
<mwright1night> which was on the core todo list for edubuntu is in the edubuntu
<ogra> mwright1night, its not ready yet
<mwright1night> do you know when?
<ogra> i'll work on it the next weeks and trigger a backport of the package for breezy
<mwright1night> fantastic
<mwright1night> I am rolling out some terminal servers for some schools running LTSP
<mwright1night> and I currently use Teachertool, but it's not that clean
<ogra> but it'll only have basic functionallity, not more than the original TeacherTool yet
<mwright1night> that's ok
<mwright1night> it will be awesome all the same
<mwright1night> will you use x11vnc or something else?
<ogra> but i plan a plugin mechanism, so you can let your stsdents write extensions for it in the python class ;)
<mwright1night> I also use it for remote helpdesk
<mwright1night> so keep that in mind
<ogra> gnome has already vnc built in...
<spacey_ki> teachertool is the fancy toolie to see running sessions and stuff or am i confused with something else?
<mwright1night> that it's use is beyond the class room
<mwright1night> It has two functions
<mwright1night> it will broadcast your desktop to the class
<mwright1night> and it will spy on a session
<ogra> since i have all settings centralized available in gconf oon the server, the vnc part is fairly easy
<mwright1night> I login to my terminal servers remotely using FreeNX then I use TeacherTool in interactive spy mode to do helpdesk
<mwright1night> I even do it from my 3G Mobile phone internet card which has a lot of latency and it works ok
<ogra> alison, try another login and look if a line starting with: "ssh command line:" shows up
<ogra> alison, on the login manager .... (ctrl-alt-f7)
<ogra> mwright1night, i hope we'll have freeNX in ubuntu before dapper to have it in the next release
<alison> ok, I was trying that just now. I think my previous login attempts might not have been logged, because I just restarted the client after it hung with the clock icon
<ogra> they guy working on it for us had some other priorities so it didnt make breezy
<ogra> alison, yes, if you rebooted the client the log will be empty
<alison> ogra, yes, there's an ssh command line line.
<ogra> can you post it here ? 
<mwright1night> ok ogra.. I appreciate your fine work,
<mwright1night> I have to goto work now
<alison> Issh command line: ['ssh', '-v', '-X', '-c', 'blowfish-cbc,aes128-cbc,3des-cbc','alison@192.168.101.254', 'env', 'LTSP_CLIENT="ltsp"', '/etc/X11/Xsession', ';','kill -1 $PPID'] 
<mwright1night> thanks for the update,  I will proceed to install edubuntu, cause we're going live for next year
<alison> *ssh, not lssh
<mwright1night> and it sounds like a safe bet that Teachers Pet will be ready
<ogra> gah, where does it get the SERVER variable from ? 
<mwright1night> I'm going to use original ltsp 4.2 as Muekow/ubuntu isn't quite mature enough yet
<ogra> mwright1night, until next year ? haha, indeed
<ogra> mwright1night, oh, note that teachers pet will be written for ubuntu ltsp.... it wont support tcp X connections, only ssh like ubuntu's ltsp
<ogra> alison, are you sure you havent set the server in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf ?
<alison> I did a filesystem-wide search for lts.conf. the only place it shows up is in the docs as an example file
<ogra> hmm, really strange
<ogra> i have no idea where the 192.168.101.254 comes from
<alison> that's the default ltsp server ip address, right?
<ogra> it shouldnt be....
<ogra> the default should be your ltsp server 192.168.2.1
<alison> ok...
<mwright1night> oh that's bad
<mwright1night> looks like I"m not using Teachers pet
<mwright1night> dam
<ogra> mwright1night, look like youre using teacherTool then 
<ogra> *looks
<mwright1night> yep
<mwright1night> main thing is ltsp 4.2 (not yet released) will dynamically do local devices very nicely and local apps very nicely
<mwright1night> And that is something of high value to my setups
<ogra> edubuntu wil do that too in our next release
<mwright1night> I"m sure when April edition comes out they will be parallel in functionality
<mwright1night> Will jim be adopting the ssh tunnelled X setup that is in ubuntu
<ogra> i'll integrate hotplug/udev/hal/dbus with the server for the next release
<ogra> as weel as i'm working on ssh tunneled gstreamer setups for audio support through theora streaming...
<mwright1night> cool this is very exciting
<mwright1night> LTSP + OO 2.0 = BillyGs demise
<ogra> we're working very tight together
<mwright1night> thanks again -- it's a fine contribution, must run to setup the training network @ work
<mwright1night> cya
<ogra> the ltsp conference is held "inside" the ubuntu conference in motreal in two weeks
<ogra> alison, ok... lets try what happens if you set the SERVER variable in lts.conf...
<alison> so presumably I can fix this with an lts.conf?
<alison> ok
<ogra> alison, hit alt-f2 on the server
<alison> ok
<ogra> paste or type : gksudo "gedit /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf"
<ogra> add/paste: [Default]  SERVER         = "192.168.2.1"
<ogra> save he file and reboot the client...
<ogra> *the
<alison> wait... what the heck... there's stuff there
<alison> our infamous 192.168.101.254
<alison> sorry, I must be going crazy.
<alison> I thought I checked for a file there
<alison> so I only need the one SERVER line?
<alison> or maybe I should just try deleting this?
<alison> the file, I mean
<ogra> yes, delete it... except you have a non us keymap, then add at least the contens as described on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPClientKeymap
<ogra> but wipe everything else from that file
<alison> ok, keymap is us. file deleted.
<ogra> if you use a us keyboard, just delete it
<ogra> :)
<alison> do I need to restart anything?
<ogra> yes, the client... it reads lts.conf on boot
<alison> ok
<ogra> if you want to lock the root password for the clients again (makes sense for security) run "sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -l"
<alison> SUCCESS!!
<ogra> YAY !!
<ogra> :)
* ajmitch_ celebrates
<ajmitch_> what's going on? :)
<ogra> we celebrate a fixed ltsp setup
<alison> I got my first successful client login
<alison> ok... is there anything special I have to do to get internet access going through the second network card on the server?
<ogra> alison, there is a howto... noted at the bottom of the Install notes (see /topic)
<alison> ok
<ogra> argh...
<ogra> no its not noted there
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
<ogra> ^^^ at the bottom there
<alison> great. thanks.
<alison> and thank you so much for your help, ogra. there are going to be some really happy kids in a school in Harlem, NY this week.
<ogra> cool
<ogra> thats what i work for, thanks :)
<alison> Isaac Pflaum, the president of the non-profit I'm working for (heragroup.org), wishes to thank you, too. we've been trying to get this project running since August.
<ogra> if you ave any probs, just come back and ask :) i built edubuntu, i know all internals :)
<ogra> *have
<alison> :) thanks
<runaway> any news on 5.10 ppc?
<ogra> runaway, there wont be one officially, it didnt recieve enough testing
<runaway> ever?
<ogra> 5.10
<runaway> thanx
<ogra> but there is a unofficial version
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<ogra> holds the released isos... the ppc default install has a bad bug in ltsp... if you dont want to use ltsp, that image should be fine 
<runaway> i just want to see the disto. servers would be amd anyway
<ogra> ok
<ogra> do you have a running breezy on your ppc ? 
<ogra> the just install dubuntu-desktop :)
<ogra> *then
<runaway> downloaded but not installed
<ogra> edubuntu-desktop indeed
<runaway> that sounds easier
<ogra> just install breezy and edubuntu-desktop on top... then you got the same as the workstation install provides
<runaway> gotcha
<ogra> edubuntu-server wont work on ppc, it depends on a working ltsp...
<Jeromee> rawr.
<Jeromee> ogra, sup
<ogra> dinner now :)
<Jeromee> boooo
<ogra> :)
<petterah> hi, i have a question, is edubuntu something like skolelinux? is it ltsp and lessdisks enabled ubuntu out of the box?
<ogra> not lessdisks, no... but for the rest, yes
<ogra> also we didnt target more than one classroom with this first release... managing a school and centralized user management is target of our next release
<petterah> ok thanks ogra
#edubuntu 2005-10-22
<Jeromee> hmm
<ogra> Jeromee, ?
<Jeromee> is checkinstall included in edubuntu?
<ogra> its in universe afaik
<Jeromee> k
<Jeromee> from what I hear
<Jeromee> its a rather sweet thing
<Jeromee> heh
<ogra> not really
<ogra> it produces broken stuff...
<Jeromee> no?
<Jeromee> hm
<Jeromee> bummer
<ogra> it doesnt work out dependencys... 
<ogra> the only advantage is that you can easily uninstall the software through the package manager
<Jeromee> gotcha
<ogra> if you want to produce packages, have a look at the debian new maintainer guide... 
<smykes> no live cd huh?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> next release
<ogra> we needed to get the stuff in shape first
<smykes> next release meaning drak?
<smykes> drake
<ogra> yup
<ogra> if i find a lot of sparetime (very unlikely) i'll remaster a ubuntu CD ... 
<smykes> is that when content filtering is going to make its appearance as well?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> content filtering with a nicely integrated gui is one of my main targets for dapper
<smykes> its HUGE
<smykes> all the pcs at my school have content filtering on them
<smykes> so I dont let the kids on the ubuntu box
<ogra> why dont you have a centralized solution ? 
<smykes> i think there is
<smykes> but then there is content filtering on top of that
<ogra> its a lot of wasted administration time to have one on every pc
<smykes> Im not the administrator
<smykes> Im the Music teacher :D
<ogra> heh.. then current edubuntu will suck for you, sorry... we have no sound support in ltsp yet
<smykes> yeah I installed ubuntu on my biggest fastest computer in my room
<smykes> the rest were shitty boxes and wouldnt run it
<smykes> its allright as the screen isnt virtually flat so I cant look at it for more then 10 minutes at a time
<ogra> grmpf...
<smykes> wb
<ogra> wrong key
<smykes> does it have gnome baker standard?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> we have serpentine for audio
<ogra> and nautilus for data...
<ogra> no need to duplicate the functions
<smykes> and rhythm box for audio?
<ogra> and gnomebaker in main would mean to rip out the nonfree codecs and functions, i think its better to keep a full equipped gnome baker in univese
<ogra> *universe
<ogra> yes, rhythmbox fr audio
<smykes> be nice if someone just wrote a complete app\
<smykes> itunes eske
<smykes> that did everything out of the box
<ogra> i heard amarok shall be wuite good..
<ogra> quite
<ogra> its a KDE app though...
<smykes> does alexandria come standard or do you have to apt-get it?
<crimsun> (I love how gnomebaker 0.5.5 was released two days after Breezy. Sigh.)
<ogra> but since we have a mixed environment in edubuntu anyway, it wouldnt hurt
<smykes> i had big issues with alexandria in hoary
<ogra> smykes, we only targeted a single classroom with this release... bibshelf would be my suggestion for this usecase rather than alexandria
<ogra> alexandria is rather for big setups... 
<smykes> yeah or small, depending on what your scope is
<ogra> we'll consider it for dapper... depending on free diskspace on the CD
<smykes> i doubt its very valuable to anyone else
<ogra> currently you need to get it from universe
<smykes> what I really need is something that will catalog my sheet music
<ogra> its valuable for all librarys
<smykes> i wish i had more time at work to tinker at school
<ogra> it should be better in breezy... if it isnt, please report it to me and i'll trigger a backport from dapper
<smykes> well im not very advanced so it just didnt work for me
<ogra> yes, and my target is to make it "just work" ;)
<smykes> heh so I might be your perfect target ;)
<ogra> ... for people like you
<smykes> as I am primarily an OS X user
<ogra> great
<smykes> but the school has no mac hardware
<ogra> and linux has no qbase :)
<smykes> qbase?
<ogra> isnt that the state of art for musicians ? 
<smykes> I use logic
<smykes> you are thinking of cubase
<smykes> i got confused with the q
<smykes> a good gui for lilypond would be nice heh
<ogra> oh, yes... non musician here, just consumer :)
<ogra> cu indeed
<smykes> logic and protools are the defacto
<smykes> lilyponds output is beautiful though
<alison> hi, I'm trying to follow the directions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowtoNAT to enable internet access on my clients, and when I do sudo echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward, I get "permission denied."
<ogra> heh, thats a wrong comand from someone used to use root :)
<alison> so what should I do instead?
<ogra> try: sudo sh -c 'echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward'
<ogra> tell me if it works, i'll correct the wiki later...
<alison> terminal gave no complaint
<ogra> cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
<ogra> should give 1
<alison> yup
<ogra> great :)
<ogra> wiki fixed
<alison> excellent. I got the internet access going.
<ogra> yay
<ogra> :)
<pax> guys, I uninstalled edubuntu-desktop but it's still shows the art-work at boot, what's the package(s) to remove to cmpletely make edubuntu go away?
<HiddenWolf> Hey guys, Is there some half-decent mindmap program in the archive?
<jsgotangco> mmm
<jsgotangco> i know theres something...
<jsgotangco> let me check..
<jsgotangco> hmmm i can't find it
<jsgotangco> i know its there somewhere
<jsgotangco> i don't even remember
* jsgotangco is in a fresh install
<HiddenWolf> I saw this freemap wiki the other day, and that was just way too much bother for me. :)
<HiddenWolf> And yes, there we go, blackboard is down yet again.
<HiddenWolf> :( only mindmap tool that turns up in the archive is kdissert.
<HiddenWolf> Why, oh Why?
<Jeromee> because, life sucks
<Jeromee> then you die
<Jeromee> :-(
<HiddenWolf> Oh, I'll die anyway.
<Jeromee> me too
<HiddenWolf> The piont is doing someful useful before then. :)
<Jeromee> I've been smoking cigarettes since i was 9
<Jeromee> its been 9 years now
<Jeromee> I'm sure my lungs are done
<Jeromee> I'll probably have lung cancer at 22
<HiddenWolf> You're 18 and so cynical?
<Jeromee> damn this world.
<Jeromee> heh, indeed.
<Jeromee> whats wrong with being cynical?
<Jeromee> :-)
<HiddenWolf> You could just prove it to yourself and quit. :)
<Jeromee> its hard
<Jeromee> I'm working on it though
<Jeromee> believe it or not
<HiddenWolf> Well, cynisism usually hides other things. :)
<Jeromee> I'm illergic to the patch, and the gum.
<Jeromee> I hide nothing
<Jeromee> I'm so cynical because my father died when I was 16
<Jeromee> I watched him die for 2.5 years, and cared for him for 2.5 years.
<Jeromee> thats why I'm so cynical.
<HiddenWolf> youch.
<Jeromee> yeah.
<Jeromee> kinda fucks with your head yanno?
* HiddenWolf kicks eur.edu, fbk.sin-online, osiris
<Jeromee> but theres kids whose dads died of the same shit, and have turned out worse, so I'm not so concerned.
<HiddenWolf> Jeromee, I can get into that.
<Jeromee> what is a mindmap tool anyway?
<HiddenWolf> Jeromee, you're the one who rules your life. You decide where you end up.
<HiddenWolf> Jeromee, mindmapping is a way of storing information. Summarising in a graphical way, rather than written.
<Jeromee> I know this, and this is why I'm back in school, getting my diploma, and going to college with a scholarship
<HiddenWolf> Did you drop out?
<Jeromee> yeah, I was supposed to graduate two years ago
<HiddenWolf> I don't get the US system. Here you wouldn't be allowed to.
<Jeromee> well
<Jeromee> you're allowed to skip grades here...
<Jeromee> I skipped 2nd
<Jeromee> and 7th grade
<Jeromee> heh
<Jeromee> started early too
<Jeromee> haha
<HiddenWolf> Yeah, here too, but you're not allowed to leave school before you're 17, and you better damm well have a diploma.
<Jeromee> lol.
<Jeromee> I might be doing dual enrollment next year, I plan to get out of college asap.
<Jeromee> next semister rather.
<HiddenWolf> University is good. :D
<Jeromee> I'll be going to community college
<Jeromee> but our community college here, is on par with alot of Universities
<Jeromee> where are you from?
<Jeromee> UK?
<HiddenWolf> Netherlands.
<Jeromee> ah
<Jeromee> gotcha
<Jeromee> should have noticed... being in the NL ubuntu channel :-)
<HiddenWolf> *chuckle*
<HiddenWolf> Go WHOIS. :)
<Jeromee> yeah
<Jeromee> I'm like
<Jeromee> still half asleep though
<Jeromee> girlfriend woke me up, went and got some cigarettes, just got back in
<HiddenWolf> heh, yeah. I had 5 hours of sleep tonight, and it's 8.06am.
<Jeromee> debating on when to go back to sleep
<Jeromee> lol.
<Jeromee> its 2:04 am
<Jeromee> I feel asleep at 12:10
<Jeromee> woke up at 1:20
<Jeromee> =P
<HiddenWolf> I slept at 2, was up at 7.
<Jeromee> werd
<Jeromee> you're only 6hrs ahead of me
<Jeromee> w00t.
<HiddenWolf> I've got 2 lectures today, and a meeting. Need to shop and cook too. :)
<Jeromee> lol.
<Jeromee> are you a teacher?
<HiddenWolf> No, student.
<Jeromee> gotcha
<Jeromee> whats your major?
<Jeromee> I assume you're in college
<HiddenWolf> System is slightly different here, I'm in university.
<HiddenWolf> International Business.
<Jeromee> oh, fun fun
<Jeromee> I'll be majoring in Computer Programming/Computer Network Management
<HiddenWolf> One can actually pay for higher education here. :)
<Jeromee> its insane here
<Jeromee> honestly
<Jeromee> if I don't have a scholarship
* HiddenWolf is paying 1500eur/year + books
<Jeromee> I won't be attending anything.
<Burgundavia> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=691
<HiddenWolf> I'm waiting for the supermarket to open.
<Jeromee> awesome
<HiddenWolf> I'm hungry, and out of bread. :)
<Jeromee> lol
<enyc> 0000
<jsgotangco> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> morning jsgotangco 
<dabaR> Hi. Is there somewhere you can log in to the edubuntu wiki? I can not seem to find a place to log in.
<dabaR> All the pages say locked page for me, even though I am logged into the ubuntu wiki, with the rosetta login, I think.
<dabaR> Is that how it should be? locked?
<Oly> just a quick quesstion of intrest, are we going to see a forum for discussing edubuntu ?
<jsgotangco> we could probably ask the forums to add one
<jsgotangco> given enough interest
<Oly> yeah, seems like a good idea to me, especially as IRC does not work at school because the provider blocks the portds
<Oly> while i am here may as well ask a quick question, installed edubuntu last friday before i finished work 
<Oly> got it to network boot a laptop, but it booted to a terminal
<Oly> and said it needed an nfs server, do i need to install this seperate ?
<Oly> i assumed it would just boot to a gui with out any other work
<jsgotangco> JaneW, is it possible to add Edubuntu to the official forums?
<Oly> not really had chance to look into it more, thought i would ask now while i can :p
<juliux> Oly, it should boot a gui by default
<jsgotangco> well by default it should boot gdm
<Oly> i thought that might be the case
<Oly> which means something went wrong somewhere 
<juliux> Oly, check if the gdm is running
<Oly> will look into it when i get to work, 
<Oly> it did not look like it got that far
<Oly> from what i remember 
<juliux> Oly, ps aux |grep gdm helps
<Oly> i will try later, see if its there 
<juliux> Oly, if the gdm is not running you can start it with sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start
<Oly> but i think a service is bumming out and stopping the boot
<Oly> okay i will try starting it manually, and see if it is launched
<Oly> also write down any of the errors
<\sh> good morning 
<jsgotangco> moin \sh
<juliux> moin \sh 
<\sh> ok...I don't know if you heard about it, ogra and I were testing amd64 ltps server + i386 client :) works now with a couple of lines of patches 
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> how about the ppc client?
<\sh> jsgotangco: ppc iso were fcked up because of a kernel install thingy..
<\sh> good morning JaneW :)
<JaneW> \sh morning
<\sh> JaneW: I think ogra will be back to normal this week...after this weekend ,-)
<dabaR> so noone knows about my wiki issue where I can not log in to make changes?
<JaneW> dabaR: does it not offer a place to log in?
<dabaR> I can not see one, no.
<JaneW> um... my logon is automatic... I will try to replicate...
<JaneW> are you using the orange and red edubuntu wiki skin?
<dabaR> afai can see
<dabaR> that makes even my ubuntu wiki locked.
<dabaR> wait, maybe not, let me check here...
<DemisM> what is the difference between edubuntu and ubuntu?
<JaneW> both use the launchpad login
<JaneW> access through ww.edubuntu.org
<dabaR> No, it does not, just the edubuntu wiki pages are locked.
<dabaR> JaneW: you see a login screen or textboxes at edubuntu anywhere?
<JaneW> and click on wiki linkg - you should get a login link in the top of the orange bar at the top
<JaneW> try go to http://wiki.edubuntu.org/UserPreferences
<dabaR> Hah, never saw it. thank you.
<JaneW> dabaR: you sorted now?
<Yagisan> G'day ogra - haven't seen you for a few days
<ajmitch_> hi JaneW, Yagisan 
<JaneW> hi ajmitch_ 
<JaneW> Yagisan: I don;t think ogra is up yet
<ajmitch_> probably still sleeping off the effects of having \sh visit
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch_
<\sh> hehe
<Yagisan> \sh what did you do to him ??
<\sh> Yagisan: we had a nice weekend with a lot of drinks, extreme after release relaxing :) 
<\sh> when I counted right
<Yagisan> cool - are you going to demo the multi-client-arch edubuntu at UBZ ?
<\sh> 1 bottle glen grant, 1 bottle glen fiddich, half a box of beer (12 bottles) and a half bottle of rum...
<\sh> Yagisan: I think we should show it to the world :)
<Yagisan> \sh - yeah- we know what you drank :) but what about ogra :-P
<\sh> Yagisan: i had the beer and the rum ;)
<Yagisan> \sh - have you noticed that the clients don't have a volatile directory or non-free modules ?
<\sh> Yagisan: no....we were happy that it was working like this...and now ogra can have a closer look what's there and what not
<Yagisan> \sh: I noticed it a few days ago, none if my i386 clients got a nvidia.ko module
<Yagisan> \sh: for systems that need firmware - it may be an issue
<\sh> Yagisan: the only thing which is really annoying is the fade out effekt during logoff
<\sh> effect even
<Yagisan> \sh: that goes so sssssssslllllllllllooooooowwwwwwwwwww on my p2 clients
<\sh> because it takes a hell of a lot of bandwidth
<Yagisan> \sh: even on crossover it is dog slow
<\sh> and it looks like an old dia-show of hires boob pictures on c64
<Yagisan> \sh: you think we can get a c64 working as a client ?
<Yagisan> \sh: would look cool :)
<\sh> Yagisan: hmm...there is a tcp/ip stack for a c64 via userport
<\sh> and if there is a running implementation of the X protocol for c64...
<Yagisan> \sh: booting from tape may take a while ..
<\sh> coffee....brb
<Gand_> hi all
<Gand_> my gnome icons on bottom bar are little messed up (bin is placed left to desktop) no problem with a new created user. How can i fix it? thank
<Gand_> I've oslved dragging them, thank
<Gand_> oslved/solved
<Gand_> just wonder why after upgrade icons were messed up
<Yagisan> Gand_: were you logged in twice ?
<Yagisan> Gand_: sometimes that happens if you are logged in twice at the same time
<Gand_> YYagisan you mean logged twice on my machine? no, I did never
<Yagisan> Gand_: I had it happen to me when I logged in from a few terminals at once
<Yagisan> Gand_: It cleared up for me when I logged them all out, then did a single log in
<Gand_> I restarted computer, so all logged user were logged out, and I didn't log twice, anyway I solved, no prob, thanks
<Gand_> As my school students are about 14/18 years old, where can I find previous edubuntu desktop (little bit less K12 style :)
<Gand_> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=434&slide=4
<Gand_> not yet available here: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Preview_Wallpaper_Examples
<jsgotangco> JaneW, no habla espanol
<jsgotangco> he
<Yagisan> Gand_: I don't know -  try right clicking the desktop to change it
<Yagisan> Gand_: The current one was what was voted for - that's why they shipped it
<jsgotangco> i don't think we'll be able to put up wallpapers of boy bands and hip hop groups to cater that age group for legal reasons :)
<jsgotangco> joke
<jsgotangco> :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: no
<JaneW> Gand_: I'll u/l it for you....
<Gand_> thank
<Gand_> just have it available
<Gand_> as I find other one, but not the previus shipped
* jsgotangco starts chewing a handful of mentos
<JaneW> Gand_: er I just need to find it again...
<Gand_> :)
<Gand_> lost in space :)
<JaneW> Gand_: on ogra's page somewhere ;)
<ajmitch_> jsgotangco: throw some this way :)
<Gand_> I think it had to be added on "Preview wallpaper example" page on edubuntu site
<JaneW> Gand_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/wallpaper/
<JaneW> Gand_: I'll u/p it to  "Preview wallpaper example" now
<Gand_> thank
<JaneW> no problem
<JaneW> :)
<magnon> morning!
<highvoltage> morning, got to run again, so bye!
<enyc> meep
<enyc> erm
<magnon> meep.
<enyc> amybody know why my edubuntu 5.10 i386 install asking me for ip address ??
<enyc> its connected to dhcp network....
<magnon> yes, you're installing the server, apparently
<magnon> that means it will BE the dhcp server thus needs an IP
<enyc> well yes
<enyc> but i didnt ask for server
<magnon> hm
<magnon> I don't have a recent installation here, I don't know
<magnon> edubuntu is server by default I think
<jsgotangco> yes
<magnon> just do the installation and then configure it for dhcp later if you can do that
<jsgotangco> on boot type workstation so as not to install the server components
<ogra> morning everybody
<enyc> errrrm
<jsgotangco> hi ogra 
<ogra> JaneW, i uploaded the wallpaper already to art.ubuntu.com... waiting for moderator approval...
<ajmitch_> hi ogra 
<ajmitch_> how's the head? ;)
<enyc> it says type 'server' for server install
<magnon> morning ogra
<magnon> enyc: umm, probably a bug. That's inherited from Ubuntu proper
<JaneW> ogra: oic... 
<ogra> enyc, yes, there are som cosmetic bugs in the installer
* JaneW too
<JaneW> ogra: morning
<ogra> :)
<enyc> so i need to select 'workstation' at boot prompt ???
<ogra> enyc, like http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes says ;)
<jsgotangco> enyc, yes
<jsgotangco> :)
<ogra> if you want a ubuntu with an edubuntu-desktop only workstation is right
* jsgotangco wonders if the oem instructions got into edubuntu as well
<ogra> i think so... they are in the default install, arent they ? 
<enyc> kk
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i'll try it later i guess
<enyc> loading...
<jsgotangco> the oem will install server hehehe
* ogra never tried that
<jsgotangco> its pretty neat actually
* enyc aaaaaaaaaaaaaarghs about trying to type qwerty on dvorak-key-board
<ogra> lol
<jsgotangco> the only instruction for oem avaialble was the one i wrote about and published in planet
<ogra> i'll check it... i only know the hwdb client doesnt work...i didnt even know he used it until release day
<magnon> thursday is my departure for eventually ending up in Montreal =)
<bluefrog-10> hi all
<bluefrog-10> anyone could help with xserver pb on thin client?
<ogra> bluefrog-10, sure
<bluefrog-10> got a fatal error unrecognized option vttty1. don't know where from this thing is coming
<ogra> did you create a lts.conf ? 
<bluefrog-10> yes
<bluefrog-10> copied it from k12ltsp which is working ok
<ogra> did you look for the line it complains about in this file ? 
<bluefrog-10> trying to switch to low vesa server as my server card is intel 915 and got a nvidia on client. no vttty1 in my conf. getting from somewhere else but am not good enough with grep to find out where
<ogra> this is no string our ltsp uses anywhere, it must be something you added... i.e. through lts.conf
<ogra> you dont need to configure X that happens automatically, did you try without lts.conf already ? 
<bluefrog-10> haven't fiddle for sure with a vttty1 anywhere
<ogra> we have native i915 support ....
<bluefrog-10> without lts.conf was telling me lts.conf was mising
<ogra> and you are sure you use edubuntu with edubuntu ltsp ??
<ogra> it shouldnt bother with a missig lts.conf... our ltsp surely doesnt give such a message
<bluefrog-10> not for certain. as i had pb with dhcp i fiddle a bit with packages. going to reinstall and have a look now that i know how to run dhcp.
<bluefrog-10> when i install from scratch do i have to run ltspadmin afterwards?
<ogra> did you follow the http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes ?
<ogra> you only have to replace the IP range in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to match the IP you selected on install... restart the dhcp server and thats all... no further action needed
<bluefrog-10> ok then a clean reinstall should do the trick ty. will come back if same problem
<ogra> yup....
<ogra> just follow the instructions from the wiki (and from the linked pages there)
<ogra> gah, to slow
<jsgotangco> brb
<enyc> hmmmmmmm
<enyc> im having dhcp trouble
<bluefrog-10> dhcp won't start?
<enyc> dhcp-client....
<enyc> but nettwork works etc....
<enyc> trying knoppix
<bluefrog-10> hi all. made clean install. switch on client. getting at the ltsp display manager. trying to log on, keeps throwing me back at the display manager. haven't touched anything yet on the server. can anyone help pls
<Yagisan> bluefrog-10: select gdm off the menu
<bluefrog-10> selected GNOME
<Yagisan> bluefrog-10: soory - I don't have a box handy - At least it starts with G :)
<bluefrog-10> :)
<bluefrog-10> done that but no luck. is there a log somewhere on the server?
<Yagisan> bluefrog-10: sounds like you have the ssh key problem then
<Yagisan> bluefrog-10: on the server run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys and see if that helps
<ogra> bluefrog-10, did you see the known issues list on the wikipage ? ;)
<ogra> the menus in the loginmanager dont work... dont waste time to select stuff :)
<bluefrog-10> seen something like that yes. tried for the sake of it
<ogra> :)
<ogra> is sshd running on the server ?
<Yagisan> ogra: the menus doesn't work - odd, sometimes picking gnome worked for me
<ogra> Yagisan, we dont use gdm in ubuntu ltsp :) its called ldm...
<bluefrog-10> apparently yes as i can ssh test@edubuntu
<Yagisan> ogra: I'm tired and can't spell - I got the right first letter
<ogra> bluefrog-10, and you log in with the same userdata via ldm ? 
<bluefrog-10> yes
<ogra> hmm, k.... 
<bluefrog-10> tried the  sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys. no change
<bluefrog-10> have created a user test pwd test
<bluefrog-10> trying as well with the install created user
<ogra> you can set a rootpw for the client and look into the ldm.log there
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<ogra> ^^^sets a root pw...
<ogra> you can then log in on console on the client as root... look at the last lines of /var/log/ldm.log
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -l locks the password again afterwards
<bluefrog-10> permission denied publickey,password
<ogra> hmm...
<bluefrog-10> trying private key /root/.ssh/id_rsa
<ogra> does /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts exist and contain the right key ? 
<ogra> else delete it and run ltsp-update-sshkeys again
<ogra> note that this command is run by the installer at the end of the install... if you run it afterwards, you may have the same key twice in there... 
<bluefrog-10> done rm and run again no luck
<ogra> can you scp the log file to the server and post it to a pastebin service ? 
<bluefrog-10> setting up a password for root on server wouldn't help would it? (guess it's a stupid question)
<ogra> nope, it wouldnt
<bluefrog-10> wow wow scp pastebin, u talk chinese to me. give me a url where i can post the log
<ogra> the only place where a root pw helps is in the chroot to read the logfile... but it should contain the explicit error
<bluefrog-10> btw the client took an awful long time to boot, is that normal for now?
<ogra> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl
<ogra> yes, we'll improve boot time for dapper and also add the bootsplash to the thin client boot
<bluefrog-10> hang on am in with the install created user right now
<ogra> there is also a next generation ldm already that didnt make the freeze date for breezy... it is themeable and looks not as ugly as the current one
<ogra> wow, great news :)
<bluefrog-10> as for the uesr i created am gonna try again but it seems to be an Xauthority lock pb
<ogra> how did you create the user ? 
<bluefrog-10> sudo useradd
<ogra> hmm... rather take the gui tool for that.... it has user profiles ...
<bluefrog-10> stupid me it no home for test
<ogra> heh :)
<ogra> that explains the error in the log :)
<bluefrog-10> yep sure helps to have a home. going alright. there was still this key pb solved by rm and recreating it
<ogra> if you want to tweak it, you could now transfer the essential parts to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf from your former lts.conf...
<ogra> it should have existed in the first place if you didnt run ltsp-udate-sshkeys manually
<ogra> as i said above, that might add the same key twice...
<bluefrog-10> am abit baffled though as ther's no lts.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc.
<ogra> it will be read if you create one...
<bluefrog-10> where does it take the conf from right now?
<ogra> ubuntus autodetection mechanisms :)
<bluefrog-10> k fair enough :)
<ogra> the file is only necessary if you got values that arent detected or detected wrongly...
<bluefrog-10> if i remember what i read no use trying to get the sound work on client correct?
<ogra> yes...
<bluefrog-10> ah..
<ogra> next release... i plan to integrate something like a streaming server fo audio... 
<ogra> so we can forward the audion compressed through a ssh tunnel if the latency doesnt get to evil...
<ogra> s/audion/audio
<ogra> for local devices i plan to have a tunneled dbus/hotplug/hal combination so you can just plug in your camera or scanner on the thin client and it gets used as its now in ubuntu
<enyc> so.....
<bluefrog-10> k
<enyc> when does ubuntu tree next 'sync with deb unstable then start ubuntu-paching again etc....?'
<ogra> for this release the target was mainly to have a base to build on for the future
<bluefrog-10> got u
<ogra> the archive for dapper opens tomorrow... no idea if the automerges start immediately
<enyc> i wonder how that workos, etc....
<CuriousCat> so, edubuntu will still follow the six-month release plan, right?
<magnon> yes
<ogra> the time to get new features in will a bit shorter this release, since we'll have to do more stabilization work for a 3/5 year supported release
<ogra> CuriousCat, yes
<enyc> ;-)
<ogra> that way we can benefit from the fast reease cycle ubuntu has an get newest stuff in very fast
<enyc> get on with it then ;p
<ogra> and i only have to care for the edubntu specifics, the rest is done reliably by the ubuntu team....
<enyc> so....
<CuriousCat> So, will it still be the same? I mean, whatever major changes they have in store for ubuntu dapper will also be seen on edubuntu? Just curious since I have plans to use edubuntu for my project next year. :)
<enyc> ace you planning for a late 5.10-ppc edubuntu cd once stupid-problem in ltsp fixed ?
<ogra> enyc, its quite easy... all packages that have ubuntu specific changes have a ubuntuX version number... the autosync tool (MOM or merge o matic) doesnt sync them ... but creates a bug with the differences of the packages...
<enyc> hmm
<ogra> so all packages with a ubuntuX version require manual merging... the rest gets in right away from debian
<ogra> CuriousCat, yes, it will always have ubuntu as underlying architecture... 
<Yagisan> ogra: ppc broke ?
<ogra> Yagisan, yes :(
<Yagisan> ogra: I don't feel so bad about qemu being unable to process it now
<ogra> enyc, nope we wont hae a fixed iso... but the release iso is on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/ (with the bug in ltsp indeed)
<Yagisan> ogra: I can wait for qemu to get better before implementing ppc client with i386/amd64 server
<ogra> so if you dont want to use a ppc server, you can still do a workstation install from it...
<Yagisan> ogra: what was the problem with ppc ltsp ?
<ogra> there is no linux package in ppc
<Yagisan> ogra: so it can't get a kernel ?
<ogra> so theltsp client builder from the installer breaks on it ... as well as ltsp-build-client does...
<ogra> yes
<ogra> which breaks the install
<Yagisan> ogra: I see, is it missing from the cd or the archive completely ?
<ogra> ltsp-build-client needs an arch check and set the package name accordingly
<ogra> there was no ppc CD released... we only have the last daily (which is identical with the release but wasnt blessed QA wise)
<Yagisan> ogra: hmm - that would make it a bit more difficult re multi-client-arch
<ogra> why ? 
<Yagisan> ogra: I would have to add extra ppc logic
<ogra> if the base arch is ppc or the --ppc option for the client building is set, it uses the right linux package...
<ogra> its not complicated...
<Yagisan> ogra: what package does ppc use instead of linux
<ogra> linux-powerpc :p
<ogra> or linux-powerpc64
<Yagisan> ogra: bug against linux-powerpc for failure to provide meta-package linux
<ogra> its a question of setting one variable based on autodetection...
<ogra> i'm not sure if its a bug or a feature... that'll need discussion with the kernel team :)
<Yagisan> ogra: or bug against linux-i386 for providing meta-package linux - the achive isn't consistant
<ogra> yes... 
<Yagisan> ogra: Did you notice that the kernel volotile mount is created on the clients ?
* Yagisan can't spell today
<Yagisan> isn't
<ogra> nope...
<Yagisan> ogra: I noticed that on a p2 - it displayed an error while booting
<ogra> we'll fix that.. 
<ogra> we'll have some BOFs about ltsp, multiarch support local devices etc at UBZ
<ogra> its mdz's babay, so all stuff will need his approval
<Yagisan> ogra: well, no one needs anything that needs it yet (until someone gets a new nvidia or ati card anyway)
* Yagisan wishes he could go to UBZ
<ogra> i have a nvidia card and tested also the binary driver.... worked fine... but i'm not sure if that was before or after the tmpfs for the volatile stuff was added
<Yagisan> ogra: any idea why they did tmpfs for volatile ?
<ogra> nope
<Yagisan> ogra: The old system was working well, but now, I can't see on my filesystem the stuff that is in volatile
<Yagisan> ogra: and it's not good on low memory systems
<ogra> ask the kernel team ... #ubuntu-kernel :)
<ogra> hehe http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientWithoutPxe
<highvoltage> ogra: hi
<ogra> hey
<highvoltage> ogra: what would happen if you installed ldm on a normal ubuntu system?
<highvoltage> could you connect to the server through that?
<ogra> you cant
<highvoltage> ah
<ogra> there is no separarte package
<Yagisan> ogra: you noticed that now ???
<highvoltage> ogra: if there were a seperate package, would it work? or if you install ltsp-thin-client and fix things up, would it work?
<ogra> Yagisan, the wikipage ? yes :)
<Yagisan> ogra: I need to clean it up and add more instructions later for hard disk boot, but I'm to busy now
<Yagisan> ogra: You wouldn't believe how many people I've tried to help while you were hungover er resting
<ogra> highvoltage, yes, it *could* work, no promises though... we also planned to put it in a separate package
<ogra> Yagisan, thats great news... we need more community... 
* Yagisan admits - I'm not actually running edubuntu
<magnon> ogra: know where claire davis works, and if she's on irc at the moment under some strange name?
<JaneW> magnon: her nick is cvd
<JaneW> magnon: and she is in London
<magnon> ah, thanks
<JaneW> she should be on-line now, I have been chatting to her throughout the day
<magnon> ok
<highvoltage> hi JaneW 
<mhz> hi you all
<magnon> hey
<mhz> hi magnon 
<mhz> JaneW: could we talk about the CD stuff?
<enyc> meep
<enyc> got udubuntu 'workstation' going...
<enyc> errr edeubuntu
<enyc> id really like to have a specified user login automatically....
<enyc> password can be used when sudoing...
<enyc> i.e. for a standalone non-multiuser-setup
<enyc> which is what i want *at the moment*
<ogra> you can set this up in the loginmanager settings for gdm...
<Yagisan> enyc: that's not such a good idea from a security point of view ... but it's your call
<enyc> yes i know this
<enyc> i am well aware of the consequences etc...
<enyc> laooe,rpe
<enyc> oops
<enyc> im in "login screen setup"
<enyc> aha
<enyc> hrrrrm
<enyc> autologin didnt work
<enyc> laoo,rpe
<enyc> argh wrong keyswitch setting
* ogra_ grumbles in the direction of his DSL provider
<juliux> ogra, ping
<ogra> juliux, pong
<juliux> ogra, do you know where i can manipulate the log out prozess from gnome?
<ogra> manipulat ? in which way ? 
<enyc> hrmmmm
<enyc> questidon ;-)
<juliux> ogra, ich want that if a user log out that the home dir of the user is backspace to a default content
<juliux> s/ich/i
<enyc> if i plug edubunte/ubuntu box into a duifferent  DDC (plug/pray) monitor......
<enyc> and boot it....
<enyc> will the x-server detect the new freq. range settings ??
<ogra> enyc, you'll probably have to run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg"
<enyc> hmmmmmmm
<ogra> to generate a new xorg.conf
<enyc> i see i see
<ogra> depending o the monitor
<enyc> thats what i suspected
<ogra> *on
<enyc> ill get out a worse monitor then do that ;p
<Yagisan> enyc: the clients should auto detect
<juliux> ogra, it is clear what i mean?
<enyc> or set ranges manually
<ogra> juliux, yes....
<enyc> this is standalone/workstation for now
<ogra> enyc, ... the above only applies for non ltsp indeed... ltsp clients autodetect the settings
<enyc> kk
<enyc> kk
<enyc> kk
<enyc> ;-)
<ogra> juliux, the only thing that comes to mind would involve ugly ldm hacks...
<juliux> ogra, i think that there was a simple shell skript that runs if you log out
<juliux> ogra, but i did not know where i should start my search
<ogra> for gdm, yes... but ldm doesnt have such a function yet
<juliux> ogra, ldm?
<ogra> ltsp display manager ...
<juliux> ogra, ok
<ogra> the login manager
<juliux> ogra, but isn't there a log file which logs which user logs in and out?
<ogra> what we do is to run /etc/X11/Xsession through a ssh tunnel... you could also hack on this file or the files in /etc/X11/Xsession.d
<juliux> hm
<ogra> /var/log/auth.log ?
<juliux> i will look there if i find time
<juliux> ogra, but a daemon that look the hole time on the log file is not very nice
<ogra> thats what i meant with weird ldm hack :)
<juliux> ogra, hm
<ogra> look in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ldm
<ogra> find the ssh_remote_command array
<juliux> ok
<juliux> at first i will boot the server
<ogra> add your script before 'kill -1 $PPID'] 
<juliux> ogra, thanks
<ogra> now it will get executed before the session is killed
<juliux> ok 
<ogra> but its very ugly and will get overwritten on upgrade 
<juliux> i know
<ogra> (not that i'd expect upgrades to ltsp ruing breezy)
<juliux> but no risk no fun
<ogra> juliux, there is also a beatified version of the login manager with theme support... http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/
<Yagisan> ogra: There have been sec updates already - I've updated my ltsp chroots - libssl anyone ?
<pere> Suvarov[work] : hi. :)
<Suvarov[work] > pere: hello!
<pere> Suvarov[work] : good evening. :)
* Suvarov[work]  is at EST
* Suvarov[work]  is also at UTC -04:00
<bluefrog-10> hi all. where can i find the conf used by ltsp in edubuntu pls?
<ogra> bluefrog-10, there is none, its autodetected...
<bluefrog-10> oh sad
<ogra> bluefrog-10, if you want a specific conf, create /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf on the server, there is a example in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/
<ogra> most of the values from the original ltsp (found on wiki.ltsp.org) will work
<ogra> bluefrog-10, whats not working right for you ? 
<bluefrog-10> it's just that i installed ltsp on ubuserver as i'd like ti install it at my kid's school but i like the way edubuntu detected the thin client hardawre
<bluefrog-10> i guess it's coming from the kernel
<ogra> oh, you installed the legacy ltsp ? 
<bluefrog-10> yes, no offence to your work but having no sound yet prevents me from installing edubuntu right now
<ogra> yes, i understand that very well... i'm also quite sad that we dont have sound yet
<bluefrog-10> and i'd like to get away from redhat k12
<ogra> but for sound the ugly ways k12 or legacy ltsp use might work in edubuntu too
<ogra> i didnt have the time to test such stuff sadly
<bluefrog-10> so so far ubuserver with ltsp works quite well excepts for the hardware detection. throws me to low vesa while edubuntu finds the correct graphic card apparently
<ogra> but dvelopment for the next release just starts ... in april we'll hopefully have a rocking audio and local device support
<bluefrog-10> yes u told me that yesterday
<ogra> thats an xorg/kernel/hotplug thing...
<ogra> we use kernel 2.6, legacy ltsp uses 2.4 ... 
<ogra> i think k12 also still uses xfree86 ... 
<bluefrog-10> well it was just for the sake of research as they will have crappy graphic card at the scholl anyway
<bluefrog-10> am using 269 with ubuserver but u use 2612 in edubuntu
<bluefrog-10> i mean in /tftpboot
<ogra> yes...
<ogra> but you most likely dont ues initramfs and the latest xorg that has many improvements...
<bluefrog-10> i tried to copy the all stuff but then i have a mount /dev/.static/dev problem
<ogra> especially for autodetection
<bluefrog-10> sry am not linux guru (far far far from it). last question. if i compile new ltsp kernel to have 2612 instead of 269 in tftpboot would the autodetection improved or has it nothing to do with it?
<mhz> ogra: hi. Just wanted to tell you that your ltsp-update-sshkeys worked fine.
<mhz> Clients do login based on .xsession now
<ogra> cool
<ogra> bluefrog-10, thats rather a thing that has to do with initramfs
<bluefrog-10> ok then that's chinese to me i'll stick with what i have and will do an upgrade to dapper next year. ty for your time
<ogra> you wont win anything with a higher kernel version... there is a lot integration wok gone into initramfs/udev/hotplug/kernel combnation
<bluefrog-10> k the server working ok for me. next big step is ldap. no pb in FC4 but i struglled and quit several times in ubuntu.
<bluefrog-10> at least with hoary, haven' tried yet in breezy
<ogra> thats on my list for dapper too... but there was a thread in the ubuntu-devel mailinglist yesterday i think where many people showed off their favorite ldap tools
<bluefrog-10> :)
<bluefrog-10> ain't got noone. so i wont bother u with that. doing it by hand following idealx.org tuto
<viator> hello do i need two nick cards for edubuntu to work as a terminal server?
<bluefrog-10> not necessarily
<bluefrog-10> u can set it up with one
<viator> i have two but id be robbing from peter to pay paul ie then one of the other pc's would be missing one
<bluefrog-10> one is fine
<ogra> in fact its way easier with only one card
<mhz> ogra: have you had come to a decision about CD printing_
<mhz> ?
* mhz got us keyboard now.. good.
<viator> i have a couple of REALLY old pc's  whats the minimum specs for them as clients
<ogra> mhz, nope... we'll have our regular meeting on wednesday, lets tlak about it there :)
<mhz> ok
<viator> i mean "usable"
<ogra> viator, i'd think 64MB 133Mhz pentium should work fine
<viator> really  great
<viator> the only think that stinks about them is ill have to use floppy
<viator> cause theres no option in bios
<bluefrog-10> or a cd if it boots on cd
<viator> one is eltorito the other isnt
<ajmitch_> the main issues with old PCs as clients is usually the video card
<viator> so yeah i can do cd
<viator> on one
* ogra -> dinner
<viator> yeah ones an old ibm 166 which is currently running damn small linux the other is a toshiba laptop which is also 166
<viator> i hate to throw them out if they could be used in anyway so ill try this i guess
#edubuntu 2005-10-23
<ogra> viator, follow the notes http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes ;)
<ogra> they are written for a one NIC setup
<mhz> ogra: will it be of any use I show up in UBZ_
<mhz> ?
<mhz> or it's most oriented towards developers only
<mhz> ?
<ajmitch_> quite developer-oriented
<mhz> thx
<sven-tek> Hi ogra, Einladung zum Linux Tag Essen angekommen?
<ogra> sven-tek, yes, thanks... 
<sven-tek> thats good, i had to leave so i told the team to send it
<ogra> sorry, havent answered yet, busy day today
<sven-tek> today a teacher asked if he can tell about his experiences with linux in schools - but i think he uses skole linux
<viator> wheres a good place to find network boot floppy
<ogra> most likely...
<mhz> sven-tek: skole linux, edubuntu, edulinux.. whatever input is a start for other people to see gnulinux on education is a wise alternative
<ogra> viator, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientWithoutPxe
<ogra> :)
<viator> there is no os on this box right now  but i know its a linksys lne100tx im not sure which rom to pick i can guess i guess
<viator> its tulip
<ogra> i'D guess so
<crimsun> yep, tulip
<ogra> (that you can guess)
<viator> but theres a bunch of em
<crimsun> I have a bunch of those nics in another box
<sven-tek> bevore we got that offer to use the unperfekthaus in essen, my idea was to go to schools and promote linux there. So i think linux in schools is very important, you guys are doing an important job.
<viator> theres one that says rl100tx
<viator> gotta be it
<ogra> sven-tek, absolutely... 
<viator> whats the best fromat to choose for the floppy? .zdsk or .ispo  i thought floppy images where .img? lol
<ogra> i'm not really familiar with etherboot ... Yagisan could tell ...
<viator> your servers are pretty quick im downloading the edubuntu iso @ about 200 kb/s
<ogra> cool :)
<viator> i figured it out .zdsk
<viator> then cat eb-5.4.1-tulip.zdsk > /dev/fd0
* ogra would use dd ... but cat might work as well
<viator> dd if=bootfloppy.img of=/dev/fd0 bs=512 conv=sync ; sync    like that?
<ogra> yup
<viator> lol now all i need to do is find some floppies i only have one laying around that ive written to like a million times 
<ogra> heh, i know that prob
<viator> sound is a pin in the arse  right?
<viator> dont really need it on these anyway
<ogra> its not implemented yet...
<viator> yeah i remember when i messed with ltsp on debian
<ogra> so you'd have to set up something like nas or esd over network
<viator> can you boot from a wirless card?
<ogra> but all current solutions are ugly and not really the last in safety
<viator> using a cdrom or somthing
<ogra> if you find a bootrom for it, yes...i heard of wlan cards that can do that, but havent seen one myself yet
<viator> i guess theres a wireless_ltsp  boot floppy
<viator> i asked on #ltsp
<ogra> yes, i see it..
<ogra> but that means you boot the kernel fro the floppy... could get hairy, breezy ltsp needs 2.6.12 ...
<ogra> but try it, probably it works...
<viator> yeah the wirless  stuff is on here http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=17723..section
<mhz> pitux: read me_
<mhz> ?
<pitux> mhz_cooking i need talk with you
<mhz_cooking> pitux: ping
<mhz_cooking> http://www.decom-uv.cl/
<mhz> jsgotangco: welcome
<jsgotangco> hi
<mhz> jsgotangco: btw, I could finally use Edubuntu clients with KDE and WindowMaker
<mhz> it was just a matter of ltsp-update-sshkeys
<jsgotangco> wow
* jsgotangco haven't been doing edubuntu stuff lately
* jsgotangco has been busy with talks
* mhz has to and wants to
* mhz starts talks tomorrow :)
<mhz> hmmm, I wonder if running Edubuntu server, and on top of that I use PearPC, and on top, I run a licensed OSX, Will I be ilegally using OSX on many clients?
<dabaR> JaneW: Yes, thank you, I got logged in.(This message in reply to when you asked about whether I am sorted now(in reply to your previous enquiry, if you prefer to be formal:))
<dabaR> I think Edubuntu has a great set of icons.
<dabaR> I was thinking, at universities, they have usually intro to computers courses, and in Windows, plus the stuff they teach them is too easy even for that course. We need a intro to computers - Linux.
<crimsun> interestingly enough, they teach intro to computers courses at my university on Digital UNIX, heh
<crimsun> pretty much everything is UNIX- or Linux-based
<dabaR> Really?
<dabaR> Well, at my U they teach in windows.
<dabaR> Pretty much everything in teh CS program, or in that course?
<corvax> ive got edubuntu installed now how do i set it up as terminal server?
<mhz> corvax: just reboot your clients already set to boot via PXE in Bios
<mhz> corvax: and be sure you /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf is correct
<corvax> i ran the ltspconfig to see what was up and it showed dhcp wasnt running
<mhz> corvax: afaik, you should run nothing. it all should work out of the box if you followed InstallNotes on the wiki
<corvax> well i burned iso and just did  all the defaults
<mhz> corvax: good
<corvax> it asked for my ip i gave it to it
<mhz> did you also read Install Notes?
<mhz> corvax: what ip you provided?
<corvax> 192.168.1.102
<mhz> corvax: ok, now see /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and make sure your network settings correspond to the real one
<corvax> ok
<corvax> nope
<mhz> ?
<corvax> it looks like a default
<corvax> you have place for paste
<mhz> so, replace values to match real ones
<mhz> here
<mhz> shoot
<corvax> well it has 192.168.0.0 255.255.255.0  etc
<mhz> that is incorrect then
<corvax> so i need to replace all 0's with ones
<mhz> yes
<mhz> 192.168.1.xxx
<mhz> of course :)
<corvax> do i comment out the domain i dont really need it
<mhz> yes
<corvax> authoritative;
<corvax> subnet 192.168.1.1 netmask 255.255.255.1 {
<corvax>   range 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.250;
<corvax>  #option domain-name "example.com";
<corvax>   option domain-name-servers 192.168.1.1;
<corvax>   option broadcast-address 192.168.1.255;
<corvax>   option routers 192.168.1.1;
<corvax>   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.1;
<corvax>   filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<corvax>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<corvax> }
<corvax> thats what it looks like now
<mhz> subnet 192.168.1.0 instead
<mhz> range 192.168.1.x higher than option routers
<mhz> option subentmask 255.255.255.0
<mhz> for this try, please #out option router
<mhz> duh
<mhz> duh #out
<mhz> dont #out
<mhz> option routers Are you sure there's another router with that ip?
<corvax> my routers has the ip 192.168.1.1
<corvax> which is the default gateway
<mhz> ok, then
<corvax> that option is for extra router?
<mhz> if you have a server + router + clients
<mhz> it is most likely router will stop you dhcpd from server becaus emost routers have dhcp in them
<corvax> yes servers is connected to a router and the router one port is connected to a switch
<corvax> and clients connected to switch
<mhz> (at least that happened to me until i got a switch and all got well)
<corvax> well ill  just hook it to the switch
<corvax> no prob
<mhz> ok
<mhz> then /etc/init.d/dhcpd restart and let's see
<mhz> reboot a client :D
<dabaR> So the ltsp is enabled by default on all versions of Ubuntu, right?
<mhz> nop
<mhz> only in Edubuntu
<dabaR> Does it come with the desktop? no, right? The whole thing has to be an Edubuntu install.
<mhz> yep
<mhz> unless you wanna do it all manually :)
<dabaR> And, you just network a computer onto your Edubuntu, and make it boot from that PXE thing you said above, make a small config tweak, and it works?
<corvax> i have no dhcpd in /etc/init.d/
<mhz> dabaR: yes
<mhz> corvax: are you sure you installed Edubuntu and not just Ubuntu?
<corvax> YES
<corvax> lol
<corvax> im new  but not THAT new
<dabaR> nice, Ive wanted to try ltsp for a while now. I think ever since I learned about Unix in the first place, cause where I learned about it they had some setup like that.
<corvax> im looking at the desktop with the edubuntu logo and the  funny lookin kid
<mhz> corvax: hehe. I am not new but I had a I_still_dont_know_how_issue in which I swear I installed edubuntu but it turns out I did had not.
<corvax> well whats the best way to tell besides that
<corvax> i know
<mhz> apt-get install edubuntu-server
<mhz> :D
<corvax> lol
<corvax> no ill do apt-cache policy edubuntu-desktop ? right
<mhz> ok
<mhz> but you need server :)
<corvax> edubuntu-desktop:
<corvax>   Installed: 0.32
<corvax>   Candidate: 0.32
<corvax>   Version table:
<corvax>  *** 0.32 0
<corvax>         500 cdrom://Edubuntu 5.10 _Breezy Badger_ - Release i386 (20051012) breezy/main Packages
<corvax>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<corvax>      0.05 0
<corvax>         500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Packages
<mhz> but you need server :)
<corvax> its installed
<corvax> it says] 
<corvax> version 0.32 as well
<corvax> i ALWAYS have goofy shit like this happen to me
<corvax> NOTHING ever "just works" 
<mhz> corvax: I do have same output 
<mhz> BUT, believe me
<mhz> if i do apt-get install edubuntu-desktop, it willtry to install 18 MB
<mhz> however,
<mhz> apt-get install edubuntu-server is ALREADY installed :D
<mhz> and policy gives me 'installed' for both
<corvax> id have todo apt-get --purge remove
<mhz> why??
<corvax> cuase its there already
<mhz> nop
<corvax> so how can i install it
<corvax> when apt wont let me
<mhz> did you type apt-get install edubuntu-server?
<corvax> yeah
<mhz> and the putput?
<corvax> edubuntu-server is already the newest version.
<corvax> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<mhz> hmmmm weired
<mhz> dont' purge, please
<corvax> Service    Installed   Enabled   Running   Notes
<corvax> dhcpd      Yes         Yes       no        Version 3
<corvax> tftpd      Yes         Yes       Yes       Has '-s' flag
<corvax> portmapper Yes         Yes       Yes
<corvax> nfs        Yes         Yes       Yes
<corvax> xdmcp      no          no        no            Using: none!
<mhz> do you have /opt?
<mhz> do you have /etc/ltsp?
<corvax> yes
<mhz> can you paste your /etc/inetd.conf?
<mhz> the line for tftp
<corvax> tftp           dgram   udp     wait    root  /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
<mhz> that's ok
<mhz> finally, /etc/ltsp/ is empty?
<corvax> no
<mhz> so can you make sure there are no IP written on /etc/dhcp3/dchpd.conf? and if so, let's make a new dhcpd.conf under /etc/ltps/
<corvax> dhcpd.conf
<mhz> so the only missing file is under /etc/init.d/ ??
<corvax> yeah 
<corvax> and i havent touched it 
<corvax> honest
<mhz> hmmm
<mhz> let me give you mine
<mhz> if that's ok
<corvax> well i 
<corvax> have dhcp3-server
<corvax> but no single dhcpd
<corvax> under there
<mhz> duh!!!
* mhz slaps himself
<mhz> that file 
<mhz> is ok
<mhz> please restart it
<mhz> LOL
* mhz was very confused with file names
<corvax> hmmm
<corvax> how do i 
<corvax> it says command not found
<corvax> bare with me now
<corvax> lol
<dabaR> I knew it was that!
<mhz> dabaR: _
<mhz> ?
<dabaR> I was just quiet cause I was not sure.
<dabaR> the dhcpd folder.
<mhz> corvax: sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server stop
<mhz> corvax: sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start
<mhz> corvax: sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<mhz> 1st: start
<mhz> 2nd: restart
<mhz> corvax: that is not found_
<mhz> ?
<corvax> ok
<corvax> got it
<corvax> it says dhcp3 is running now
<mhz> please reboot now
<corvax> reboot?
<mhz> and cross your fingersa
<corvax> lol
<mhz> lol
<mhz> i mean, boot the clients
<corvax> thought you only had to reboot if you recompiled kernel
<mhz> and cross your fingers
<corvax> in linux
<corvax> hehe
<corvax> 1 sec
* mhz trhows lemon juice to corvax eyes
<mhz> D
<mhz> :D
<corvax> hey i never configured hosts aloow deny etc
<corvax> i knoew i had to do it before 
<mhz> who cares
<mhz> nop
<mhz> why_
<mhz> you installed edubuntu
<mhz> or ubuntu?
<corvax> none of those silly configs
<corvax> have to be done
<mhz> none
<corvax> only dhcp?
<mhz> long live to Ogra!!!
<mhz> yes
<corvax> sweet
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> dabaR: you too cross your fingers :D
<dabaR> ok
<mhz> hehe
* mhz is impressed by dabaR's enthusiasm
<mhz> corvax: so_
<mhz> ?
<mhz> success?
<mhz> corvax: i need to separate my fingers, can I?
<corvax> no that ugly ass windows boot screen
<corvax> now this is how i have it
<corvax> hooked up
<corvax> i have the server hooked to switch i have clients hooked to switch
<corvax> and i have the uplink from switch
<corvax> hooked to router for internet
<mhz> corvax: the 1st sentence does not let me understand the situation. success? fail?
<corvax> it didnt oxe boot 
<corvax> pxe
<corvax> it went to harddrive
<mhz> if fail, any chance you could try crossover cable or no router?
<corvax> i went into bios and set it to boot from lan
<corvax> well id loose internet i guess the only reason i have router is for wireless
<corvax> anyway
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> for the 'try' purpose, please?
<Yagisan> sorry  - could you quickly summarise the error
<corvax> ok ill unhook it now  ill be disconnected for a bit
<mhz> corvax: i dont wanna go to bed befor i get to know if server is ok
<mhz> educool!
<mhz> Yagisan: still no error
<mhz> Yagisan: corvax has a router in the middle
<mhz> remember I had exact same problem?
<Yagisan> yes, I remember that
<mhz> once I did not use the router, edubuntu worked perfectly
<mhz> so, we are trying to 1st see if edubuntu runs
<mhz> once we know that, he can move on with local net settings
<Yagisan> corvax: Most "routers" sold to the home and small business markets are a nat device, primarily designed to share an internet connection
<Yagisan> corvax: they are not true routers
<mhz> exactly
<Yagisan> corvax: hence, you will be unable to use them as a true router
* mhz learned that from Yagisan
<mhz> :=
<dabaR> Yagisan: nice sentence^
<Yagisan> dabaR: thanks
<Yagisan> dabaR: unfortunately it's all true, and really should be put on the wiki
<dabaR> off course, it is true, I like how you put it nicely, puts my thoughts about the whole issue nicely together...
<highvoltage> JaneW: wb
<JaneW> highvoltage: thanks
<JaneW> highvoltage: not sure why my line descides to drop randomly....
<highvoltage> JaneW: telkom--
<JaneW> highvoltage: say no more... ;)
<ball> Mine used to do that, but a different modem fixed the problem.
<JaneW> ball: this is a 'Hell'kom supplied ADSL modem/router goodie
<ball> I'm not familiar with Telkom, but I get the gist.
<ball> routers generally suck, and I'm not that keen on integrated modems.
<ball> If the modem breaks, you have to throw away a perfectly good router.  If the router breaks... I'd prefer a router with a PC-Card or Cardbus slot so that I could pop in whatever interface suited my needs that year.
<ball> POTS, ISDN, terrestrial wireless etc.
<ball> Commercial routers have a tendancy to be evil anyway.
<ball> I'll shut up now ;-)
<JaneW> ball: agreed
<ball> Which bit?  About me shutting up?  :-)
<JaneW> ball: LOL
<JaneW> ball: I was agreeing with your comments about routers and modems :)
<ball> Ah good, now I don't feel quite so bad ;-)
<ball> wb pere
<pere> thanks. :)
<jsgotangco> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> what's give me something to work on soonish....im almost done with the cookbook....
<JaneW> cool!
<jsgotangco> :P
<jsgotangco> cool won't cut it i need it to be reviewed soon
* jsgotangco cracks whip in front of JaneW 
<JaneW> :)
<ball> hello apokryphos
<apokryphos> hello
<ball> Bed time, I must go.  :-/
<apokryphos> 'night
<ball> Goodnight all
<ogra> morning
<jsgotangco> ogra, hi
<JaneW> er can we get in the 'free stationery' business please?
<jsgotangco> mmm?
* JaneW just got the list of stationery (and uniform) requirements for Grade 1 next year - I may need to ask the bank for a loan! ;)
<jsgotangco> im not getting you
<JaneW> it's EXPENSIVE
<jsgotangco> ohh  you mean ubuntu going into free stationaries
<JaneW> yes :)
* jsgotangco is dumb
<MenZa`> lol
<JaneW> maybe I wasn;t clear
<JaneW> or outlaw the pencil and paper
<JaneW> all work on wikis!
<ajmitch_> hah
<ajmitch_> educate the kids on wikis as early as possible
<jsgotangco> evil
<jsgotangco> id rather have my child learn to write :P
<ajmitch_> so would I, if I had children :)
<jsgotangco> its easy to have one if you desire such...
<ajmitch_> not right at the moment, thanks
<jsgotangco> i was teaching my kid last weekend to play scrabble
<jsgotangco> so she could learn simple words and spell them
<JaneW> good idea
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ajmitch_> except she kept beating you? ;)
<jsgotangco> a year ago i taught her to play dice so she could count
<JaneW> jsgotangco: poker next? ;)
<jsgotangco> yeah except when I added the words "Encyclopedia" and "Ziggurat" heh
<ajmitch_> JaneW: nah, mao :)
<JaneW> ajmitch_: indeed!
<JaneW> for deductive reasoning...
<JaneW> and pure insanity
<jsgotangco> more like intimidation...
<jsgotangco> we've been buying a lot of simple board games lately, trying my best to avoid using a computer or a videogame to teach as much as posible...
<Yagisan> oh ? I've been trying to teach my little girl to use a computer
<Yagisan> it's a lot harder to pull apart for her
<jsgotangco> oh its not a problem on our home, my girl prefers to use a real laptop rather than her toy one
* Yagisan feels sad she ripped up all the books I bought her
<jsgotangco> i've bought her a toy computer worth $100 and it just self-destruct after a few kiddie torture
<Yagisan> I need more robust toys - I think my little girl is an engineer
<jsgotangco> my problem at th e moment is her gameboy
<Yagisan> She always is giving me "spare" parts
<jsgotangco> she won't do her kumon lessons before playing at least an hour
<Yagisan> kumon ? isn't that cram school ?
<jsgotangco> no
<jsgotangco> its not supposed to replace math studies in school
<jsgotangco> (others use it for that though)
<Yagisan> ah - then I was thinking of juku, both are from Japan though
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> that reminded me when i was an exchange student in suzuka back then...
<jsgotangco> high school was literally useless
<Yagisan> like the trip ? I was impressed by how different - yet how same it was when I first went
<jsgotangco> well yeah
<jsgotangco> most of the highschool years they don't study at all except for the last year (college entrace preparation)
<Yagisan> I was in country for only a few hours before I broke an electronic toilet, trying to figure out how it worked
<jsgotangco> the city toilets are ok, already westernized
<jsgotangco> but most homes in far flung areas are still very traditional
<Yagisan> I tried both styles
<Yagisan> learn to balance or =-O
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<jsgotangco> i also got the chance to ride those transparent ferris wheel rides
<jsgotangco> scary
<Yagisan> I got the electronic toilet to "detect" a person when It was empty - blew water right across the hotel room :-[
<Yagisan> I went to the top of tokyo tower, and looked through the glass floor - that was freaky
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> and the officemen wearing porn manga on the way to work
<jsgotangco> i mean reading
<Yagisan> try to catch the train n peak hour ? that was an experience
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> hehehe
<jsgotangco> the train people have this paddles
<jsgotangco> i think they separate the women nowadays
<Yagisan> yes, there is a separate womens car in peak hour, because of the perverts on the train
<highvoltage> ogra: what's the default username/password for schooltool on edubuntu?
<ogra> erm...
<highvoltage> i'm probably missing something very obvious here :)
<ogra> manager and schooltool
<highvoltage> ah, thanks. do we have it on the wiki, or documented somewhere?
<ogra> not yet... thanks for reminding... wanted to add it some days ago
<highvoltage> i talked to JaneW previously about an edubuntu tour, showing all the futures of ubuntu on one page.
<highvoltage> ogra: here's a previe page, i'll add it up there too: http://www.edubuntu.org/proto/tour.html
<ogra> thanks
<highvoltage> ogra: have you looked at the crystal theme on OOo2? Do you think it's appropriate for edubuntu? I think it's more appropriate than the brown gtk theme.
<ogra> i looked at it... i dont like t... 
<ogra> but thats personal preference... 
<ogra> i never liked any of the crystal stuff... its cold and dead in its glassy look
<highvoltage> seems like lots of people don't like it for that reason.
<ogra> probably we could ask the gartoon author to produce matching icons for us ;)
<highvoltage> i quite like it, apposed to the gtk theme. perhaps we should put out a call for some OOo hackers to put gartoon into OOo
<highvoltage> ah, yes. that too :)
<ogra> its easy to put anothee theme in if you have icons for it ;)
<highvoltage> in OOo too? cool. I thought it needs a re-compile and/or some hard coding.
<ogra> sure...
<ogra> but its easy if you have access to the source ;)
<highvoltage> true :)
<highvoltage> it can be a nice excercise for me over the december holidays, just a pity i won't have big internet access.
<highvoltage> i think i'll download the entire ubuntu archive in the meantime.
<highvoltage> if i need something, i have it.
<ogra> note that it will change rapidly...
<highvoltage> the OOo releases?
<highvoltage> I suppose I could figure out how to do it with an older release,
<highvoltage> and once we have the final version before release it could just be copied and pasted into the newer one.
<ogra> if it didnt change by then :)
<ogra> but for learning its a good way to go i think
<highvoltage> if i'd like to wget all the ubuntu packages, could i just download everything from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/ and under?
<ogra> apt-cache show debmirror ;)
* highvoltage does apt-get install debmirror
<highvoltage> ogra: do you know how big the breezy archive is, including universe? I would guess about 14GB?
<ogra> for one arch, it think...
<highvoltage> what does this mean?
<highvoltage> Won't mirror without dists/breezy/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz signature in Release at /usr/bin/debmirror line 1187.
<ogra> hmm, no idea, i dont use debmirror myself... thats a question for -devel
<highvoltage> ok
<Topslakr> is there any edubuntu docs on how to setup the client or do i just refer to the LTSP project?
<Yagisan> Topslakr: what do you want to do ?
<ogra> Topslakr, see /topic :)
<ogra> Topslakr, there is only one step to do after installation...
<Yagisan> turn on :)
<Yagisan> .oO(Unless it doesn't support pxe, in which case we a a few more steps)
<ogra> nah... the autogeneration of /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf didnt make it... it requites to manually edit this file ... but EdubuntuInstallNotes should cover all common cases
<ogra> yes, non PXE is somewhat spethial
<Yagisan> ogra: but as I demonstrated, easy to fix
<ogra> Yagisan, did you have to do any changes to the tfptboot setup ? 
<Yagisan> ogra: and if your pxe has bugs, perhaps a better choice
<Yagisan> ogra: none at all - if you follow the wiki
<ogra> i was asked this today...
<ogra> oh, great, thanks :)
<Yagisan> ogra: My instructions specifically set up pxe emulation
<ogra> ah, cool
<Yagisan> many thanks to whoever formated my instructions nicely
* ogra guesses that was mhz
<Yagisan> ogra: it will also take advantage of multicast tftp too, if the tftp server supports it
<Yagisan> ogra: which can have some substantial bandwidth savings - esp when a whole classroom boots at once
<mhz> hi
<mhz> ogra, ping
<Yagisan> G'day mhz
<mhz> hi Yagisan 
<ogra> mhz, pong
<mhz> do you by any chaNCE KNOW WHICH DECODER OR APP. I SHOULD USE TO play .avi failes
* mhz sorry for caps
<ogra> mhz, you asked if it would make sense to come to UBZ ?
<mhz> yes
<ogra> mhz, there are some wiki and doc related BOFs...
<Yagisan> mhz: what type ? .avi is a container format, eg divx, xvid, indeo ?
<mhz> ogra, do you know which decoder and app to use to play avi files?
<ogra> mhz, enable uni and multiverse and install gstreamer-pligins-multiverse :)
<mhz> Yagisan, hhhhm
<mhz> no idea
<ogra> then use totem
<mhz> is file.avi
* Yagisan uses mplayer
<mhz> :)
<ogra> *plugins
* mhz is starting a talk in 20 mins
* mhz is far from home now
<mhz> Yagisan, yes, we tried that unsuccessfully
<mhz> is maplyer multiverse?
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> mhz: what was your error ? yes mplayer should be multiverse
<mhz> okidoki
<mhz> they had not edited sourcelist duh!
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> now il get it
<mhz> ogra, Yagisan thx u 2
<mhz> sourcelist is being updated now
* mhz 15 mins to talk
<mhz> ogra, I did read the docs you mention
<Yagisan> mhz: what is the talk on ?
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
<mhz> ogra, however i guess it is more devel oriente and so dont know if spending money on it
<ogra> there is a "better wiki" bof for example
<mhz> Yagisan, free tech
<mhz> and i'll do about communities
<mhz> ogra, wow, i missed it
<ogra> all the "Help and migration:" paragraph might be intresting
<mhz> ogra, ok, so I'll see if i can afford the trip
* mhz is gonna talk with the wife
<mhz> :)
<ogra> mhz, your decision... i just wanted to point out there is not only dev stuff going on ;)
<mhz> ok, educool
<mhz> thx
* mhz is on his wayt to the talk now
<mhz> hope we see tomorrow at 12 utc
<mhz> Yagisan, thx for such quick help, too
<Yagisan> ogra, just browsing the bofs, you have ThinClientAudio, and ThinClientDevices, any plans for ThinClientLocalApps ?
<Yagisan> oh, and any fresh new ltsp patches for me to try ?
<ogra> not yet, working on ldm merge so its in the first new package if dapper opens... than your multiarch patch
<ogra> *then
* Yagisan needs a break from trying to get my website to show in IE5
<ogra> nope, i have no plans for ThinclientLocal apps... and time for dapper feature developemnt will be *very* shourt since we'll have UVF earlier
<ogra> (a lot earlier) 
<Yagisan> ogra: you will most likely need to implement either traffic shaping or compression for the audio over the network
<Yagisan> to keep latency acceptable
<ogra> yes, i thought about gstreamer/theora/ssh tunnel
<ogra> so we have an ogg stream on the net....
<Yagisan> ogg does need a bit of cpu power to encode decode
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> adpcm gets 4:1 compression, and needs almost no cpu time (can be done realtime on a 386)
<ogra> other suggestions that are gstreamer supported and have such a high rate ? 
<Yagisan> but needs more bandwidth
* Yagisan can't attend bof, so if you think I have a good idea, log it :)
<ogra> is there a gstreamer implementation available ? 
<Yagisan> ogra: I don't know, adpcm is such an old codec, gstreamer0.8-audiofile should support it
<Yagisan> it's a basic modification of the pcm (wav) format
<ogra> sounds bandwith hungry
<Yagisan> to an extent yes, tradeoff cpu vs bandwidth
<ogra> depends if i need more CPU for de or encoding... i have plenty CPU power on the server...
<ogra> at least for plings and ploings of gnome it should be enough :)
<Yagisan> ogra: someone, somewhere, is going to try and play their mp3/ogg collection on that server
<Yagisan> in any rate, it should be low cpu decode
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> because clients can be anything from a 486 up
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> ograL flac may be better, fast decode, more bandwidth efficient then adpcm, and has a gstreamer plugin
<Yagisan> *ogra
<ogra> yup
<ogra> lets see how to implement it.. i think gstreamer is the right way... it covers desktop, totem and rhythmbox as well as all gnome apps... 
<ogra> the prob is to make the kdeedu apps tlak to gstreamer
<Yagisan> what about apps that talk directly to alsa or oss ?
<Yagisan> found a compression here http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossless_comparison for flac
<Yagisan> s/compression/comparison
<ogra> they are not in the desktop we ship and it would be a huge ugly hack to do networked alsa
<ogra> thanlks :)
<Yagisan> using me (a non-typical case I know), I'd want xmms to work, perhaps vmware (it grabs /dev/dsp and isn't shipped by you), timidity
<Yagisan> and most likely a few others to work (wesnoth :) )
<ogra> thats not my target yet for basic audio support...
* Yagisan sobs quietly
<ogra> we an extend what we have later...
<ogra> like we do now with the release
<ogra> one step at a time as long as i dont have more devs helping...
<Yagisan> I understand, I try to help where I can
<geoffTheFish> can i set up one user to use edubuntu, the rest ubuntu?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> except you have different hardware for them :)
<ogra> but note that edubuntu *is* ubuntu ;)
<ogra> just another app selection, some server stuff and another look added on top
<geoffTheFish> can i get the look, its for my son - i have installed gcompris etc
<ogra> edubuntu-artwork is a systemwide package, you would need to install its components separately...
<ogra> to not make the settings affect the whole system...
<geoffTheFish> sounds complicated - maybe i'll just get a screenshot to use as desktop!
<ogra> install gartoon-icon-theme and the Edubuntu-Girl wallpaper from art.ubuntu.com then you have basiacally the look ... select both for him :)
<ogra> (gartoon is in breezy)
<geoffTheFish> ok ta
<fernandokts> where can I get some help about Edubuntu?
<ogra> here ? 
<ogra> just ask away :)
<fernandokts> thanks
<fernandokts> so
<fernandokts> I installed Edubuntu in default in a computer to be the ltsp server...
<fernandokts> It's working great with PS2 mouse clients 
<fernandokts> but when I boot a Serial Mouse, the mouse doesn't work
<fernandokts> but when I boot a Serial Mouse Client, the mouse doesn't work
<ogra> oh, thats a genereal ubuntu problem...
<fernandokts> and when I run ltspadmin it says that Xdmcp isn't installed, 
<ogra> we cant detect serial mice
<fernandokts> hmm
<ogra> ltspadmin isnt used in edubuntus ltsp... the implementation is brandnew and developed in ubuntu, the main ltsp team is just adopting it
<fernandokts> that answers a lot
<ogra> we'll have gui tools to manage the ltsp setup in the next release
<fernandokts> is there any config tool for this version?
<fernandokts> or any config files
<ogra> currently only lts.conf
<ogra> place it in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ on the server, there is a example file in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client
<fernandokts> is that one different from that created by ltspadmin?
<ogra> tha majority of original ltsp options should work if you are familiar with the syntax
<ogra> i dont know what ltspadmin creates ...
<ogra> i guess there will be a lot of overhead
<ogra> since we can autodetect a lot in our implementation which doesnt work in legacy ltsp
<fernandokts> the funny thing is: when I use lts.conf in ../etc the clients(that weren't starting in GDM) start in GDM but the keyboard doesn't work
<fernandokts> if I specify a serial mouse in lts.conf should that work?
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes has some hints for keyboard settings...
<ogra> i think so...
<ogra> but i would remove all other entrys from the file... it moght confuse te autodetection, i dont know what ltspadmin adds there
<fernandokts> maybe that's why it stops the keyboard
<fernandokts> I work in a School in Brazil and the teatchers and Students loved Edubuntu
<ogra> great :)
<fernandokts> and soon we are thinking in helping the edubunt team some how
<ogra> the next release will be really slick, this one was mainly targeted in developing a base to build bigger stuff on in the future...
<ogra> any help is absolutely welcome... :)
<fernandokts> thanks, is there any date you are thinking for the release
<fernandokts> ?
<ogra> this release was a one man show wrt development, if we cant get a team together it wont go on :)
<ogra> april is the next release... edubuntu is bound to the release schedule of ubuntu
<fernandokts> ok then
<fernandokts> so, thank you very much
<ogra> youre welcome... 
<ogra> come back any time :)
<fernandokts> thanks
<fernandokts> bye
<fernandokts> exit
<fernandokts> sorry
<ogra> bye :)
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | NEXT MEETING:  Oct 19 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | http://www.stroven.org/blog/?postid=63
#edubuntu 2006-10-16
<keltorsori> ogra alive and up tonight?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello LaserJock
<nixternal> sbalneav: just who i wanted to talk to
<sbalneav> Hello!
<nixternal> i merged the ltsp-theory into its own xml file called p2-theory.xml
<nixternal> also, i added the ltsconf info to the p2-client.xml file for the ltsp client stuff
<sbalneav> ok, where's that, so I can download it?
<nixternal> it is all up on the binaryredneck server for you to look at as well...everything in the 'edubuntu/handbook/C' directory is where you can work from
<nixternal> it is all on the redneck server...work from it like always ;)
<sbalneav> ok
<nixternal> you will work out of the 'edubuntu/handbook/C' directory with all of the xml files there
<nixternal> all the original files are located in 'edubuntu/handbook/orig' directory
<sbalneav> ok
<nixternal> i have merged all of the work that was on the redneck server into the new files
<nixternal> they are p1-xxxx.xml for part 1 files, and p2, and p3, and p4 
<nixternal> to understand the layout, you can view https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuHandbook/Management
<nixternal> that has the current layout and structure that HedgeMage would like to use
<nixternal> have you done all of the LTSP stuff?
<sbalneav> Well, there were a few pages there, but I've added a ton.
<sbalneav> I'm still slogging through the conf section locally, bringing it in line with what's actually provided in Edubuntu.
<sbalneav> What's my deadline to have things uploaded?
<nixternal> yesterday ;)
<nixternal> that would be up to HedgeMage im guessing
<sbalneav> :)
<nixternal> it won't be to to difficult for me to merge the differences and what not, but for like new work, if you could just start with one of the pages in the C/ directory, that would rock
<nixternal> but, if it is to late, don't worry about it
<nixternal> i can always merge and tweak later this week
<sbalneav> Not at all, I'll adapt what I've got.  I'm mostly done, I'll have to finish it off tomorrow.
<kihai> Hi there! Anyone out there happen to already have tried out edubuntu 6.10 including ltsp? Any infos on how to set up ltsp 5.0?
<RichEd> hello kihai
<RichEd> kihai: Have you followed the manual ? And if so what problem are you having ?
<kihai> I didn't find a manual for ltsp 5.0. I'm using ltsp on edubuntu 6.6 so far, but just installed 6.10 beta on a second comp. Could find only manuals for ltsp 4.2 / 4.2 or muecow....
<kihai> So I'm not sure if the ltsp packets in the 6.10 repos are the right ones.
<RichEd> kihai ... it may be best to wait for ogra to come online to confirm, but I think that LTSP 5.0 is only for the new edgy release (beta for the next 2 weeks) ... if you are using LTS then you need to use the LTSP that comes on the default install.
<pygi> kihai: 5.0 = muecow :)
<pygi> Morning RichEd 
<RichEd> hi pygi
<RichEd> Am I correct about v 5.0 being for Edgy only ?
<pygi> yup
<kihai> I was just confused cause on the ltsp-server package on 6.10 it says it's version 0.122... Knowing that the ltsp packets in edubuntu 6.06 were not to be installed, I don't know if it's safe to use the packets now? I need to upgrade to 6.10 because of the local device access
<RichEd> pygi: can you mail me what you have for the presentation so far .. and then we must make a time to chat ... how is wednesday looking for you ?
<pygi> RichEd: but we used our own (muecow) implementation of LTSP anyway before edgy
<pygi> RichEd: any day is bad :P
<RichEd> when does it get better ?
<pygi> ahm, dunno...I'm sleeping less then 3 hours per day :-/
<RichEd> okay ... i'll wait for your mail ... in the meanwhile I will get the generic overview done from my side.
<pygi> kihai: edubuntu build ltsp chroot for you when you install edubuntu
<kihai> Ahem, can anyone point me to a howto or manual for ltsp 5.0?
<pygi> what's so different with 5.0?!
<pygi> besides enchantments you can see in this version, configuration is practicly the same
<pygi> as I said, muecow was/is used as base for 5.0
<kihai> So I can just use the ltsp-server-standalone packet from the repos?
<pygi> tell me, do you happen to ignore what I say on purpose? :P
<pygi> Will you be installing edgy from scratch?
<kihai> pygi: I've still not decided for the server. I installed it on a test machine now and want to setup ltsp 5 to see if the local device access is working. And I know that muecow is a base for 5.0, but I thought, there'd be some differences so I'd rather follow a manual for 5.0 than an old one...
<cbx33> mornin all
<RichEd> mr cbx33 : how are you doing ?
<cbx33> yeh good
<pygi> heh. lucky you :)
<cbx33> what's yp pygi 
<pygi> 2.5 hours sleep :P
<RichEd> ogra: ping -> msg window
<pygi> anyway, uni time
<pygi> ttyl
<kihai> How do I setup ltsp 5.0 including local device support on a freshly installed Edubuntu 6.10 Beta?
<ogra> you dont, its set up already :)
<ogra> (unless you coose the wrokstation install)
<Burgundavia> kihai: welcome to Edubuntu
<ogra> **workstation
<kihai> ogra: Damned, I knew it. Used the live-cd to install, because the install-cd did have errors, even after burning it with 8x speed. So next question would be where to get a working Edubuntu 6.10 Beta Install-CD....
<ogra> see the channel topic ;)
<kihai> Hmm, yeah, but the official sources obviously have a broken version of the install cd. 
<kihai> ...ahm, isn't there a way of installing the packages that would be in the server install cd from a live-cd install?
<cbx33> ogra: dude !!!1
<cbx33> howz it going
<jsgotangco> hey all
<highvolt1ge> hey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> highvolt1ge: hey jonathan hows it going?
<highvolt1ge> jsgotangco: peaceful
<highvolt1ge> (best word I can think to describe it)
<jsgotangco> that's good?
<highvolt1ge> generally, yes. although I feel very sad for one of the guys in my local lug.
<highvolt1ge> jsgotangco: http://iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20061016025145258C921374
<jsgotangco> ouhcccchhhh
<jsgotangco> i dunno what to say things like that aren't supposed to happen
<highvolt1ge> that's the general feeling around it, yes.
<highvolt1ge> I couldn't stop thinking about it all weekend, I mean, that is seriously, well, a term that I won't use on #edubuntu.
<highvolt1ge> jsgotangco: how are things your side?
<jsgotangco> pretty good, productive at work and getting the feel on balancing work and foss now
<jsgotangco> the first month was hard
<highvolt1ge> that's great.
<highvolt1ge> working with foss++
<highvolt1ge> I think I'd rather do a non-IT job if for some reason I couldn't get a job working with free software
<RichEd> hello highvolt1ge and jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: hey! how are you doing?
<RichEd> quick update jsgotangco : willvdl met with mindset two weeks ago ... and they are very positive about looking at moving to ubuntu from debian-edu
<jsgotangco> RichEd: well that's good news to hear, but to be honest, i still have no clue on how mindset does their stuff, all i did is a code mashup :(
<RichEd> so if we hold thumbs, it looks as if they will be making the move ahead of your needs to deploy ... and then we can get everyone on the same base from the outset of emedia's move into ICT as well as Video 
<RichEd> jsgotangco: no problem, willvdl will be holding their hand ... and he will be able to be a bridge for you ...
<willvdl> jsgotangco, they are quite good on the multimedia side
<highvolt1ge> hey RichEd 
<RichEd> bottom line is there is no need for you to do anything at all at the moment, other than stay in touch with willvdl to get updates in progress of the relationship.
<jsgotangco> RichEd: just to give you an idea, just made a code mashup of digitised video, some tests done on javascript, and pulled relevant info from wikipedia and they seem to be very happy about such a simple thing
<highvolt1ge> hey willvdl 
<RichEd> Every journey starts with a single step ...
<willvdl> hey!
<RichEd> Johnny Walker.
<jsgotangco> RichEd: to be honest, im not so happy with it, but it seems to fill a void
<RichEd> jsgotangco: crappy code can gets a lot of real life results ...
<RichEd> see M$ ;)
<jsgotangco> basically i have a simple testing script in javascript that says if you're right or wrong, if you're wrong, you're given an option to play back the relevant video explaining the concept
<RichEd> jsgotangco: if you have any questions about mindset, you can send to willvdl (and CC me) and willvdl whould be able to table most of your questions as thiough they came from us.
<willvdl> jsgotangco, I'm going to see them again real soon and have some good contacts on the technical side
<jsgotangco> thanks
<jsgotangco> much appreciated
<willvdl> highvolt1ge, habe you dealt with any specific developers at mindset?
<jsgotangco> is the daily stable enough?
<highvolt1ge> willvdl: in ancient times, yes. I don't know anyone there anymore.
<willvdl> thanks, will pass on any names to you that might help in future
<jsgotangco> so can anyone confirm if oct16 build is usable ;)
<jsgotangco> as we dont seem to have anything borked in the build
<highvolt1ge> thanks
<highvolt1ge> willvdl: thanks
<highvolt1ge> jsgotangco: I can't confirm, but I do know that the edgy sea has been calm the last few days (at least, it seems so) :)
<highvoltage> cool runnings... is that the place that thinks it's at the beach?
<highvoltage> totally wrong channel :)
<willvdl> it's when you eat ice-cream that been in the fridge for waaaay to long
<willvdl> cbx33, did you take a peek at those poster mockups?
<highvoltage> willvdl: heh! I ate ice cream yesterday that is about a week old, but that's not /too/ long?
<willvdl> just don't reheat and refreeze
<highvoltage> heh
<Jsgmob> Ohhh
<Jsgmob> It works heh
<Javier_Electrico> hello
<highvoltage> boo!
<willvdl> highvoltage! My 3G woes are a thing of the past :)
<highvoltage> yay
<highvoltage> what was wrong?
<willvdl> option card
<willvdl> using NOvatel now and it rocks
<highvoltage> great.
<pips1> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> pips1: pong
<pips1> did you see my email to RichEd regarding Drupal i18n?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> pips1: nope, when did you send it?
<pips1> 15/10/06 21:31
<cbx33> evenin all
<highvoltage> hey mistir cee bee ex
<cbx33> highvoltage....I'm hoping more for cbex :p
<highvoltage> LOL!
<cbx33> I'm trying to start a cool nickname thing :p
<highvoltage> oops, caps lock was on/
<cbx33> see-bex
* highvoltage hides
<cbx33> bbl
<highvoltage> hey pygi 
<highvoltage> howzit going?
<pygi> highvoltage: bad :P
<pygi> I have two exams at the same time!!! And I can't miss any :P
<pygi> go figure the organisation
<LaserJock> you'll just have to do each in 1/2 the time :-)
<pygi> lol
<nixternal> is it possible to make UDS Mountain View a "personal emergency"?
<nixternal> or a "family emergency"
<pygi> I am not capable of doing any exam properly
<nixternal> me either pygi, don't feel bad
<nixternal> i try to be the first one done, that way it makes me look smart, and then hide the test when it is returned with a grade, but act like i did good
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> doh, there is a winky
<LaserJock> noooo
<nixternal> heh, i posted a response on my blog just for jono
<LaserJock> nixternal: I say "family emergency" would count. We're family all right :-)
<nixternal> well, can you hurt yourself so i can prove it ;)
<nixternal> another one
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> it seems, my instructors, well all but 1 now are fine with me missing class..however it seems the Illinois Veterans Grant, which so kindly pays for my schooling, and the GI Bill say "You cannot miss a class unless it is due to a family emergency"
<pygi> there's just no way I can do those exams, and If I don't do just one, I fail entire year :P
<nixternal> now, if i could prove that I was employed with Ubuntu/Canonical, then I could get an acceptance, as it would be work related...but volunteer work does not count
<nixternal> annoying
<nixternal> well, i went and took my comp midterm this morning, im thinking i did at least a high B, if not a low A
<pygi> statistics and computer science (read: windows) here
<nixternal> i will get the high B only if the teacher dislikes the fact the only way I can write is like ->   AND JOHN WENT DOWN TO THE PARK WITH DOG, WHO IN TURN PEED ON THE FIRE HYDRANT.
<highvoltage> pygi: ouch
<LaserJock> I haven't had a "real" class in over a year
<highvoltage> I wish I could go to MV
<LaserJock> last one was "Molecular Spectroscopy", what a wonderful class
<nixternal> that was actually on the exam, but they didn't use "peed"...and they referred to the dog as "who", unless John "peed" on the hydrant...which is illegal if im not mistaken
<pygi> highvoltage: same here :-/
<nixternal> well, i have my plane ticket for mountain view already...i ordered itthe day i heard about uds in the states
<nixternal> refundable, so i am good
<nixternal> LaserJock: http://xkcd.com/
<LaserJock> nixternal: haha
<nixternal> that had your name written all over it
<nixternal> PhilRod from KDE Docs posted that
<nixternal> [13:31:08]  <PhilRod> ah, it's so nice to get back to doing KDE after spending all day staring at the horrible horrible particle physics software
<nixternal> seems you and him share something, somewhat in common
<LaserJock> yeah, it's weird
<LaserJock> all the scientists I meet online actually use their computers for science
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> LaserJock: don't you?
<nixternal> he just started his PhD as well
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hardly
<LaserJock> I'm an experimentalist
<nixternal> LaserJock uses his computer for Ubuntu and to ignore the wife
<LaserJock> more-or-less
<LaserJock> I don't play games any more
<nixternal> me either
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ah, I knew some guys who also experimented with some chemicals in high school
<nixternal> all my buds are like, come on, lan party dude, lets play some rocket arena...blah blah
<nixternal> im like, dude, i have work for Ubuntu that i have to get done
<LaserJock> I look at computers in the store and think "That'd be a nice pbuilder machine"
<highvoltage> lol!
<nixternal> then they are like..you are such a looser, you don't even get paid..and when i tell them that i do get paid for sitting here on irc all day long, they get mad
<highvoltage> nixternal: I've had that before too (people who think volunteering for something like ubuntu is dumb)
<nixternal> haha LaserJock...i do too..i used to look at them for gaming...now it is like...dude, i could so use that right there, $200, that is a perfect pbuilder machine
<highvoltage> although, my case is probable slightly different to many people, because if I do something for Ubuntu in my spare time, it directly affects my work during work time, since I work with ubuntu all day
<nixternal> lol, same here
<LaserJock> I use OS X most of the time :/
<nixternal> i goto school for about 12 hours or so a week, the rest is dedicated here to Ubuntu, Ichthux, and KDE
<LaserJock> bah
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> online courses rock
<nixternal> speaking of which, i have to work on one this week, so i can test out and finish the darn thing already
<LaserJock> oh man, I've spent like over 1 hr trying to organize my email
<highvoltage> sounds like some of my mornings :)
<nixternal> LaserJock: you need Kontact, and some filters...i don't have to organize anything...every email goes where it is supposed to go, gets a priority marking, and notifies me of high status/profile ones
<LaserJock> blah blah
<LaserJock> I use procmail+mutt at the moment
<LaserJock> again, considering that I spend most of my day in OS X ... 
<LaserJock> I really wish my boss would be ok with me dual booting Ubuntu on this thing
<nixternal> tell you boss to get you a PC instead
<nixternal> im hungry...i think it is time i got and eat...since i missed lunch again
<nixternal> s/got/go
<LaserJock> hi jbrefort 
<jbrefort> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> jbrefort: I emailed Jerome Pansanel about structures
<jbrefort> yes, he told me he had got your mail, I just didn't knwo what it was about
<juliux> hi all
<LaserJock> jbrefort: well, I just emailed him back. His email sounded like he thought I was wanting him to get more done. I was just wanting to ask how to contribute :-)
<LaserJock> jbrefort: is he on IRC much?
<juliux> i have a problem with egdy, i use a surftstation with isa 3com nic, but i an error during the boot progress, there is no eth0 device
<juliux> so i get a kernel panic
<jbrefort> LaserJock, yes, on #cdk, but may be not at the same hours than you
<jbrefort> LaserJock, seems he is there now
<LaserJock> ok, well I'll hang out there a bit more
<schoolinux> Hi i wanted to know some more about the edubuntu handbook, contribution and any help....
<HedgeMage> hi schoolinux :)
<HedgeMage> The Handbook project is a little behind schedule ATM, we'd welcome any help we can get :)
<schoolinux> Hi HedgeMage,
* pygi wawes to Hedgie :)
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<HedgeMage> schoolinux: Are you familiar with subversion and/or docbook?  
<HedgeMage> (Not required, just helpful)
<schoolinux> I don't have that much time, gotta study for an important exam, i read a post on ubuntu planet and now i'm here
<schoolinux> No, I'm not, but i can get familiar:)
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> check out http://svn.binaryredneck.net/handbook or the official ubuntu-doc repo... both have working copies of the handbook
<schoolinux> HedgeMage, Ok. 
<HedgeMage> Even if you just work in plain text and others docbook-ify it for you, that's cool.
* HedgeMage pokes nixternal 
<schoolinux> HedgeMage, can you give me a brief of what kind of help is needed?
<HedgeMage> schoolinux: as you look through the handbook you'll notice that some of the files just have lines saying "unfinished" instead of actual content.
<HedgeMage> most of it is just sitting down to do something, and writing (or updating) step-by-step instructions.
<pygi> HedgeMage: after the two-exams-era-at-the-same-time I'll write a few chapters
<HedgeMage> pygi: hehe cool
<schoolinux> HedgeMage, in that page, where should i go? For_Contributors?
<pygi> HedgeMage: don't laugh, dunno how will I pull this out
<pygi> even if I knew everything (and I know nothing) I can't be at two places at the same time :P
<schoolinux> here? http://svn.binaryredneck.net/handbook/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<HedgeMage> schoolinux: For_contributors has a file to add your name to so we know you helped (and can give you credit)... 
<HedgeMage> yep, that's the handbook content :)
<HedgeMage> schoolinux: sudo apt-get install svn       <--- that will install Subversion, which is how you can update the handbook from your computer.
<schoolinux> ok, these are XML files, how can i handle them as readable text?
<HedgeMage> schoolinux: I use bluefish, which still shows the code, but highlights it in a way that's easy to read.
<HedgeMage> schoolinux: not sure about a wysiwyg editor... but if you just want to plain text it we can convert to docbook later :)
<schoolinux> yeah, i've used bluefish before..it's ok
<schoolinux> So i can a file in bluefish, then what?
<schoolinux> So i can edit a file in bluefish, then what?
<Burgwork> schoolinux: after you edit the file, you need to create a patch
<Burgwork> schoolinux: there is a wiki page, just a sec
<Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<HedgeMage> :) thanks Burgwork 
<HedgeMage> schoolinux: if you are making patches, it's easier if you do so from the docteam repo than the binaryredneck one (which is temporary and going away soon)
<schoolinux> ok, i'll read this page.
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: what's the url of the ubuntu-doc repo?
<Burgwork> it will be on there
<HedgeMage> cool
<schoolinux> Thank you guys!
<schoolinux> HedgeMage:  I'll get back here next time, cya
<nixternal> HedgeMage: pongalonadingdong
<pygi> nixternal: !!!
<Burgwork> nixternal: you USians are mad
<nixternal> and?
<nixternal> Burgwork: given I know the amount of intelligence you hold, I am sure I am safe to make the assumption that you didn't just realize that :)
<nixternal> and if you are referring to the University of Miami vs. Florida game, don't include those houligans as USians, as they are just a bunch of idiots
<nixternal> and don't say nothing about the hawaiins, granted they are living on a ticking time bomb, but they just love it there
<LaserJock> man, that was quite the stomping at that game, saw it on the news over and over again :-)
<nixternal> [15:36:06]  <nixternal> you guys see the idiots from miami vs. florida game...retards right there...forget suspensions, their collegiate career would be over with if it was up to me
<nixternal> [15:36:44]  <nixternal> im sure glad kids watch them, and look up to them..im hoping one day that my nephews will grow up and follow in their footsteps, and stomp the shit out of someone who is down
<nixternal> oops, middle button floozy
<LaserJock> heh
<nixternal> i love the feature, but i tend to press it as i scroll up
<LaserJock> I thought it was a bit entertaining
<nixternal> although, it does go along with the flow though
<LaserJock> but that's pretty bad form
<nixternal> ya it is
<LaserJock> especially stomping on people with your cleats
<LaserJock> that's pretty low
<nixternal> well, the cleats really won't hurt, but it is the thought behind it
<nixternal> now, stepping on fingers with cleats is a totally different story
<nixternal> that is why my hands are so big...they got stepped on in high school football, and broke all but 2...my hands never healed right...
<nixternal> my fingers are as long as lawn darts, and as big as polish sausages ;)
<nixternal> winky smile^^
<Burgwork> !seen ogra
<ubotu> ogra is on IRC right now!
<nixternal> !seen johnlittle
<ubotu> I haven't seen johnlittle recently
<nixternal> either have we
<nixternal> do you know where he went?
<nixternal> have his phone number?
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> @lart Seveas 23
<Seveas> (lart is not enabled in here)
<nixternal> doesn't matter, the little bugger won't attack you anyways ;)
<Seveas> hell, ubugtu is not even in here :
<Seveas> no, you can't lart me, try in -doc or -offtopic
<nixternal> hey, take a look at Java.com
<nixternal> start the Book Worm game
<nixternal> check out their "loading bar"....seems like a neat idea
<Burgwork> nixternal: linky
<nixternal> http://www.java.com/en/games/desktop/letterdetective.jsp
#edubuntu 2006-10-17
<stelis> Hello?
<pygi> hi stelis 
<stelis> Hi
<stelis> I read Richard J.'s blog entry, and was interested in helping with docs
<stelis> Do you know who the best person to speak to is?
<pygi> yes, me or Hedgemage
<stelis> OK, cool.
<pygi> nixternal: you brought a lot of people here ;)
<nixternal> im hoping that is a good thing ;)
<nixternal> stelis: are you familiar with Docbook?  SVN?
<stelis> Yes to the first.
<nixternal> don't worry if you say no, as that is fine
<nixternal> oh wow, cool
<stelis> FWIE, I've worked on OSS docs before
<nixternal> that is a bonus then...great
<nixternal> oh wow, even better!
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<stelis> But that was CVS rather than SVN.. I've got a checkout and built it though
<nixternal> you can take a look there, as I have posted the docs on the doc svn repo...so it is easy to 'svn co dir/' to download them
<nixternal> we are working out of the trunk/edubuntu/handbook/C/ directory
<nixternal> if you grab the docs, and look in there, there are around 25 .xml files in there...you can view https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuHandbook/Management to get an idea of the layout
<stelis> OK, I've got that, and a test Edubuntu Edgy setup
<nixternal> p1-xxxx.xml would be Part 1, p2 part 2 and so on
<nixternal> you are ready to rock and roll..the LTSP stuff is pretty much taken care of...part 2 that is....part 1, part 3, and part 4 are pretty much empty yet
<nixternal> feel free to look around and see what you might be interested in helping out with
<nixternal> im preparing a "presentation", 1 of the about 20 i have to give in the next week or so
<pygi> nixternal: same here, lol :)
<pygi> but you know that already :P
<nixternal> ya..i have a cool one i did for a master slide layout
<nixternal> im making a Kubuntu one, Ubuntu one, and Edubuntu one...and they look like the desktops
<pygi> oh :P I forgot I could have given you OO.Impress templates
<stelis> FWIW, I've got screenshots of the installation process
<stelis> Vmware makes screendumps very easy
<nixternal> thats worth a lot actually stelis, as it prevents us from having to do it
<nixternal> i was going to do them with vmware as well, but you beat me to it ;)  thanks
<stelis> I've done this before :)
<stelis> I'll upload them to a server, and post a link in a sec
<stelis> OK, screenshots: http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/screenshots/
<stelis> The numbers in the filenames indicate the sequence 
<pygi> stelis: permissions pls :)
<pygi> hehe
<stelis> Gah, that bites me every time 
<stelis> Fixed.
<stelis> The screen resolutions are as Vmware grabs them...
<pygi> all fine :)
<stelis> So 640x480 for text-mode and 1024x768 for graphical screens, I think
<stelis> Cool.
<stelis> Windows has recursive permissions
<stelis> I've never adjusted to Linux not doing it
<stelis> OK... A really basic question: 
<stelis> Target audience
<stelis> I'm looking at the heading "Networks and Networking" and wondering how much knowledge can be assumed...
<pygi> stelis: it's best to assume very trivial knowledge
<stelis> Hmm...
<pygi> not really "move your move over here...then click here..."
<pygi> but for a regular Joe user
<stelis> OK, so we may need to start with a link to explain terms like "IP address"?
<pygi> lol, no :)
<pygi> no, no, don't go with explaining what IP address is :)
<pygi> let's assume they know the basic terms, ok? :)
<stelis> To explain where I'm coming from...
<stelis> I'm not sure whether the target is the professional IT technician
<stelis> Or IT teachers
<stelis> Whose knowledge is a bit more patchy
<pygi> right, but we don't want to explain trivial things like IP address & stuff
<stelis> Being *really* new to Edubuntu, I'm not sure who the adopters are 
<pygi> well, it all depends if a school has an IT professional who will install the complete Informatics system, or is the teacher the one doing it
<stelis> Is Edubuntu being used mostly on self-contained networks?
<pygi> ehm, you mean no access to internet?
<stelis> More WRT to how it interacts with the institutional network and the central management 
<stelis> We have labs where central IT just provides IP addresses and walks away
<stelis> and centrally managed ones
<pygi> "central IT" as a person or what?!
* pygi is confused as always :)
<stelis> I mean a central department and the management that they provide, like an LDAP directory and so on.
<pygi> oh, well Edubuntu is actually a server ^_^
<pygi> You run thin clients then --> pulling it from server's chroot
<stelis> Where I work we have three workgroups which are independently managed by departmental people, who don't work for the main IT teams that run the rest of the network, and aren't necessarily IT professionals. 
<stelis> Those workgroups have their own servers
<stelis> OS X and Netware
<stelis> But they rely on DNS managed centrally
<stelis> I'm wondered if Edubuntu is used in that way
<stelis> Or in smaller organizations where the Edubuntu system is pretty much the whole network
<stelis> So it may have to run the DNS as well (for example)
<stelis> I guess the question is: can you say "ask your network provider for <DNS/Proxy> settings", or whether you need to assume that the reader has to sort it out fro themselves.
<pygi> you can ask that for a reader I guess
<stelis> Sorry if this seemed like a dumb question - I think that what I'll do is try to write a draft on the assumption that the reader has an Internet connection of some kind already, and see where it goes from there.
<pygi> stelis: feel free to mail me at mario dot danic at gmail dot com if you want me to help you with anything, or review, or whateva :)
<pygi> there is no dumb questions...except the one not asked
<stelis> Thanks - you've just preempted my next question :)
<pygi> good :P
<stelis> Can you give me an idea of the deadlines?
<pygi> ASAP :P
<stelis> I guess what I'm asking is the freeze date :)
<pygi> hm....ASAP? :)
<pygi> preety soon actually
<stelis> My previous experience was that the docs had to be frozen at a point before the release to allow for translation etc. 
<pygi> stelis: right, but we are already past that point
<pygi> due to some circumstances
<stelis> Ah
<pygi> ah :)
<stelis> OK - I've a suggestion
<bddebian> Heya
<stelis> Why not create a screencast or slideshow to walk new users through the process
<pygi> hey bddebian :)
<pygi> stelis: uh, uh, not now :)
<bddebian> Hi pygi
<stelis> My thought was it might be faster to make than the written documentation, you see
<stelis> And then focus on the text after.
<pygi> stelis: nop, we want the book :)
<pygi> it is doable, trust me
<pygi> I wrote one for dapper with hedgemage :)
<stelis> I wrote for Fedora :)
<stelis> A much smaller work, though :)
<stelis> OK: if you like what I'll try to do is finish off part I (or at least a draft) in the next day or two
<pygi> oki :)
<stelis> I can probably also pick up part IV
<stelis> I probably don't have the experience with LTSP to fill out the other sections.
<stelis> Although I can probably write at least basic text for the update and security sections, if needs be.
<pygi> stelis: no worries, I'm here to instruct and guide if needs be
<stelis> Cheers. When I say that I'm new to LTSP...this is about day 4.
<pygi> :)
<stelis> It was great to realise that Edubuntu works out of the box, and that I'd didn't need to write my own dhcpd.conf just to get it started.  
<pygi> :)
<nixternal> sorry..getting ready to head to dinner...
<nixternal> anyways, don't worry about the LTSP section, as it is already being handled
<pygi> bon appetit nixternal :)
<nixternal> part 3 and 4 need the loving ;)
<nixternal> bon McDonalds ;)
<pygi> hehe :P
<stelis> :) 
<nixternal> i have no clue what i said, except for McDonalds
<pygi> good McDonalds :)
<nixternal> I shall return, thanks stelis for your help!
<nixternal> well, that is good ;)
<pygi> that's what you said :)
<nixternal> bbiab
<pygi> oki, 2:06 am
<stelis> Cheers
<pygi> time for me to sleep if nobody needs me...
<pygi> going once...
<nixternal> pygi: 
<pygi> going twice...
<nixternal> hey pygi
<pygi> sold!
<nixternal> before you go
<nixternal> are you still here?
<pygi> yes?
<nixternal> oh
<nixternal> just wanted to say good night and see if you would stick around ;)
<nixternal> hehe
* nixternal hides
<pygi> ergh! :)
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> g;nite
<pygi> night
<thompa> !xgl
<ubotu> Compiz (compositing window manager) and XGL (X server architecture layered on top of OpenGL)  -  Howto at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager  -  Help in #ubuntu-xgl  -  See http://tinyurl.com/pw5ez for Kubuntu systems
<thompa> anybody going to install edgy in school?
<RichEd> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey RichEd 
<RichEd> jonathan1 / highvoltage : you there ?
<cbx33> hey jono 
<jono> hey cbx33 
<RichEd> hey jono ...
<jono>  hey RichEd 
<RichEd> jono: We must chat soon about putting together a mini community agenda for UDS and AH ... been discussing with Matt Nazum
<RichEd> have you planned any formal Community Slots or BOF sessions ?
<jono> RichEd, yeah, I have been working on community slots over the last day or so - thinkabout what is needed
<jono> RichEd, I am hoping to register them in LP later this week
<RichEd> Great ... We would want at least one meeting with Matt Nazum and Philipp Schroder and yourself to explain our view of Education Community and the new space we are creating. Pop into here and give me a ping when you have 2 mins #ubuntu-education
* RichEd -> meetings 3 hours
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<pawman> Hi there can anyone help with networking
<jsgotangco> ogra: http://toosa.oo-linux.com/cms/index.php/home/my_book
<ogra> jsgotangco, WOW !
<jsgotangco> it was just shown to me
<jsgotangco> its from the indonesian team
<ogra> thats very cool
<luckyed> Cheerio! I'm having probs with the install cd of Edubuntu 6.10 Beta. Md5 checksum seems ok, but when I run a cd check or try to install a server, I get an error message about some files not found on the cd. Tried to download the iso twice and burned it with 8x speed the second time, but the error stays... Anyone else has experienced this or knows where to get a proper iso image???
<ogra> if the Cd check fails but md5 is fine, you likely burned the CD to fast
<ogra> try 4x
<ogra> apart from that see the /topic for the download URL
<luckyed> ogra: That's where I got the image, but it didn't work. Has anyone actually succeeded in installing from the install cd? Just wanna know...
* ogra did about 50 test installs ...
<ogra> (on all arches)
<ogra> so yes, its working for me ... 
<luckyed> OK, sounds convincing. I'll give it one more try! :)
<ogra> and for various other testers as well
<ogra> btw, the server install is whats on the ubuntu-server iso ... very likely not what you want 
<ogra> (there is a translation error in the first Cd screen)
<ogra> should be "commandline minimal install" instead 
<ogra> if you want the edubuntu classroom server, just use the default item (install to HD or so)
<luckyed> I'm actually writing from an installed version of edubuntu 6.10, but it's installed from the live cd and thus the ltsp stuff is not set up. And the ltsp packages in synaptic are the wrong ones, aren't they?
<ogra> no
<ogra> just dont use the ltsp-utils package (which should be gone from edgy anyway)
<luckyed> ahem, and you're right, I meant the classroom server install, not the "server install", as I need gnome, too...
<ogra> but the installer sets up a bunch of defaultsd you will miss if you install ltsp manually
<luckyed> hmm, I thought so. Install cd is just burning with 4x this time..... let's see
<luckyed> ah, and btw: Would it be possible to use the upgrade function from 6.10 to 6.10 without messing up the ltsp installation or anything else?
<luckyed> 6.06. to 6.10....
<luckyed> ...because I've got a running Edubuntu 6.06 server with ~500 active users and I'd like to have the transition to 6.10 as smooth as possible (understandingly:) 
<ogra> well, i'd suggest to wipe the ltsp chroot then and rebuild it ... its only three commands
<ogra> actually you could even try it with the ltsp-server/-standalone packages and build it manually
<ogra> afterwards run: sudo dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical edubuntu-artwork
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall (afterwards == after you follwed that wikipage to get the initial setup)
<luckyed> but then again, aren't a lot of packages still left from the old version that wouldn't be needed by 6.10? In this case I'd prefer a clean install
<ogra> well, update-manager should care 
<ogra> and edgy has a 2remove old cruft" feature in apt now
<luckyed> I already tried to install the ltsp-server-standalone package and run ltsp-manager afterwards, but it gives me: (ltsp-manager:7072): libglade-WARNING **: could not find glade file './ltsp-manager.glade'
<luckyed> Traceback (most recent call last):
<luckyed>   File "/usr/bin/ltsp-manager", line 409, in ?
<luckyed>     base = LTSPManager()
<luckyed>   File "/usr/bin/ltsp-manager", line 18, in __init__
<luckyed>     self.wTree=gtk.glade.XML ("./ltsp-manager.glade")
<luckyed> RuntimeError: could not create GladeXML object
<cbx33> ogra: is there a package for ltsp-manager?
<luckyed> yes
<ogra> cbx33, yes, but it still has no backend
<cbx33> hmm....ahhh
<ogra> so it wont do anything ... its only a gui
<cbx33> that's what I thought...
<cbx33> sorry coming in on the tail end of this conversation
<ogra> and i'm still working on gui parts here
<cbx33> right
<ogra> (havent pushed the changes for quite somne time)
<cbx33> ogra: did you want a hand on it?
<ogra> sure, but lets have a spec first 
<cbx33> well, the only reason I said it was....I have a week off next week, because it's half term I am allowed to take holiday, so I may have some spare time to work on things
<cbx33> pessulus/SCP seems fixed now
<ogra> i'll be busy as hello next week ... including no sleep for some days to test the final iso etc
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> did you want a hand with any of that
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> I can only test in vm's as I'll be without the hardware I have at work
<ogra> help testing :)
<ogra> thats why we have the qemu support built in, even vm's will be fine for install tests
<cbx33> ok sure
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> Morning all!
<RichEd> hi sbalneav :)
<sbalneav> Hello RichEd
<highvoltage> RichEd: here now
<RichEd> highvoltage: thanks -> msg window
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<Dheeraj> hi wat package is available on edubuntu?
<Dheeraj> does it has all dev package?
<Dheeraj> eg c++ ide, eclipse etc?
<ogra> it has *all* packages ubuntu has
<ogra> (available that is ... there is no compiler installed by default)
<Dheeraj> is it same as ubuntu?
<stgraber> all the ubuntu (ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu ...) use the same packages and the same repositories
<ogra> yes, but with a different set of default packages, different artwork and a ltsp setup out of the box for classrooms
<stgraber> that's just the package installed by default that are differents
<ogra> well and the installer 
<Dheeraj> i thought i'll get all dev tool with that
<ogra> sure you can ... but they wont be there directly after install ...
<Dheeraj> that means i'll have to download those packages?
<ogra> but there are more than 17000 packages ... including all the dev tools you can install directly afterwards
<ogra> you have to strt up your package manager and select what you want ...
<ogra> same as in ubuntu
<Dheeraj> but most of the package is going to be downloaded from net right?
<ogra> well, the compilert itself is on the CD ...
<ogra> *compiler
<stgraber> It depends of the one that are on the CD/DVD you use
<ogra> but if you want to do development, you surely need libraries etc
<ogra> these have to come froim the net
<ogra> we'd have to ship on several DVDs if we'd ship all the devel packages
<Dheeraj> why they don't ship all the package?
<Dheeraj> not every body have high speed net connection
<ogra> not everybody has a DVD reader either
<ogra> so we cant ship DVDs
<ogra> since we send out the CDs fro free, we cant afford to press more than one CD
<Dheeraj> than all in 4-5cd ?
<ogra> and you only get so much packages into 700MB
<Dheeraj> i recently odered 40 cd and distributed it among my friends :)
<ogra> we'll discuss having a second CD in mountain view at the conference in november ....
<ogra> so probably edgy+1 will be a 2 CD distro (for edubuntu at least)
<ogra> but its very unlikely that we'll fill up the space with development packages
<Dheeraj> and i know many ppl who use to order 10 cd but they don't even use a single 1
<Dheeraj> best idea is allowing user whether they want all package or limited 1
<stgraber> ogra: Is the possiblity to have the normal installer (not the graphical one) included on the CD also in the things you have to discuss ? (I had 10-15 people that had some problem to install with the Install/Live CD and only 128MB of ram)
<ogra> well, not if you have technical limitations 
<ogra> i.e. 1.4Gb of space on two CDs isnt much 
<Dheeraj> yeah thats a majour problem
<ogra> stgraber, the LiveCD pretty clear states that it needs *at least* 256M
<ogra> thats one reason why we still use the non live CD for our default install in edubuntu
<Dheeraj> even i faced the problem while installing it on my pc 
<Dheeraj> p4 with 256mb ram
<ogra> so we can support smaller footprints
<Dheeraj> than i installed it on safe graphic mode
<Dheeraj> there should be option whether user want to run live cd or dorect installation
<Dheeraj> without running live cd
<Dheeraj> another problem is with connecting gprs on it
<Jsgmob> We dont have enough space on cd
<Dheeraj> i tried almost all the dialer including wvdial and kpppd
<ogra> you cant have a live session and all the install packages on one CD
<ogra> the DVD has this option btw
<Dheeraj> but both disconnect net with in 2-3minute
<Dheeraj> than pls think about shipping dvd
<Jsgmob> Eekkkk
<Dheeraj> dvd writer and dvd rom price is now very cheap
<ogra> Dheeraj, as i said, *most* edubuntu users dont have a DVD reader
<Jsgmob> Not in mass production though
<ogra> most of our users are happy to have power
<ogra> or a single phone line
<Dheeraj> there should be some sollution
<Jsgmob> Grab the dvd and distribute it ;)
<ogra> yes, the next solution down the road is to ship on two CDs 
<ogra> which puts the double amopunt of costs on us
<^Ghost2U> anyone had probls with ltsp chroot build? (I have)
<ogra> ^Ghost2U, can you switch to console 4 (alt-F4) and have a look what exactly failed  ?
<ogra> or file a biug with /var/log/installer/syslog installed
<ogra> *bug
<^Ghost2U> ogra, I'm reinstalling from scratch right now... lets see what happens
* ^Ghost2U has fingers crossed
<ogra> which iso did you use ?
* ^Ghost2U changed cdrw drives and burned another copy of cd..
<Dheeraj> i am currently using fedora 4 only coz i am not able to connect gprs on ubuntu :(
<^Ghost2U> ogra: 6.06 edubuntu
<^Ghost2U> ogra: install version
<^Ghost2U> ogra: i386
<Dheeraj> is it a bug in wvdial or ubuntu?
<ogra> hmm, thats used b ymany many people
<ogra> so the install should just work
<Dheeraj> as wvdial is working fine on fedora
<ogra> at which speed did you write the CD ?
<^Ghost2U> ogra: i think it may be my cdrw might be flaky, i burned at 8x
<jsgotangco> Dheeraj: file a bug in the appropriate package unfortunately we dont have  a lot of testers on such methods
<ogra> 8x *should* be fine ... 
<Dheeraj> power failure i'll b back later.
<^Ghost2U> ogra: i read something in the older vers about burning at slower speeds, so i started there
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> that didnt change, the data on the iso is still compressed ... but 8x should really be ok
<jsgotangco> Jeez typing with thumbs will most likely accelerate carpal tunnel
<^Ghost2U> ogra: i had a similar problem installing under vmware 5.51 a few days ago.. got it to work, but shelved it, and using real h/w this time
<Dheeraj_k> here is the detail http://www.desi-tek.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=398
<Dheeraj_k> wvdial error on ubuntu
<ogra> right, but this is surely the wrong channel to discuss it :)
<Dheeraj_k> it is ocurring only on ubuntu and other distro of ubuntu
<Dheeraj_k> eg edubuntu, kubuntu
<ogra> right
<ogra> for support go to #ubuntu for this issue ... if you want it fixed, make sure to file a bug about it (unless there isnt one already)
<Dheeraj_k> ubuntu channel is full
<ogra> that doesnt make this channel valid for general ubuntu support :)
<Dheeraj_k> p81 member there and every 1 is just typing and typing no response
<Dheeraj_k> p81 = 981 :)
<cbx33> i didn't know there was a limit on #ubuntu
<cbx33> ogra, once the installer is confirmed ok...this is just a general question.....why do we need to test all variations of installing ubuntu?
#edubuntu 2006-10-18
<pygi> I'll cry :(
<lguerra> highvolt1ge: ping
<BonBonTheJon> how can I help edubuntu
<Burgundavia> BonBonTheJon: many ways
<Burgundavia> what do you like doing?
<BonBonTheJon> I tried looking at the web site, but I couldn't get much information
<BonBonTheJon> I am a computer science major, so I can do some programming or documentation
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> for documentation, there is a major push on right now
<Burgundavia> HedgeMage: you around?
<Burgundavia> currently they are wokring on the Edubuntu Handbook
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: FSVT
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: what's up?
<BonBonTheJon> i saw a post about that on one of the news feeds
<Burgundavia> HedgeMage: BonBonTheJon the interested in helping out on documentation
<HedgeMage> ooh!
<Burgundavia> BonBonTheJon: there is a programming stuff to do as well, just the current need is for documentation
<BonBonTheJon> I'd be glad to help
<HedgeMage> BonBonTheJon: The Edubuntu Handbook could use all the help we can get right now :)
<BonBonTheJon> what do I do
<HedgeMage> BonBonTheJon: know how to use Subversion?
<BonBonTheJon> I've heard about it, but I don't really know how to use it
<HedgeMage> BonBonTheJon: it's pretty easy... first make sure you have it installed (the package name is "subversion")
<HedgeMage> then, check out the instructions in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<HedgeMage> our stuff is, predictably, in Edubuntu/Handbook inside the ubuntu-doc repo
<HedgeMage> BonBonTheJon: if I can answer questions or point you in a right direction, just ask... I'll be more awake in 12 hours or so... right now I'm just catching up on some things before bed :)
<HedgeMage> feel free to poke me as long as I'm still around, though
<BonBonTheJon> HedgeMage: thanks, I need to be going to bed soon anyway
<HedgeMage> :)
<BonBonTheJon> Burgundavia: thanks agian
<Burgundavia> BonBonTheJon: no worries
<Burgundavia> feel free to ping me if you need help
<Burgundavia> I have been a member of the doc team for a very long time
<HedgeMage> BonBonTheJon: thanks for wanting to help out!
<BonBonTheJon> HedgeMage: I've been wanting to help out, and when I saw a post on one of the news feeds I thought this should be the place
<^Ghost2U> I installed dapper default options, and it isnt running dhcpd .. I cannot connect to it via thin client..weird
<^Ghost2U> where did i go wrong?
<^Ghost2U> more importantly, how do i fix it???
<^Ghost2U> wanted to run ltsp
<Burgundavia> ^Ghost2U: did you install edubuntu or the workstation?
<^Ghost2U> edubuntu
<Burgundavia> the purely default install?
<^Ghost2U> it supposedly built the chroot sucessfully, and proceeded to install packages
<Burgundavia> ah
<^Ghost2U> yep, except for the ip adresses
<Burgundavia> you need two nics
<Burgundavia> one to the outside world and one to the thin clients
<^Ghost2U> B: care to expand on that???
* ^Ghost2U is confuzzled
<Burgundavia> you need two network cards
<Burgundavia> one for the thin client network and the other for the internet
<^Ghost2U> ok ... S.A.Q: why???
* nixternal yells into the mic, "test 1, 2,  test 1, 2"...."is this thing on?"
<nixternal> ;)
<Burgundavia> 'cuase you don't want to have your dhcp server blasting out over the public interface
<Burgundavia> nixternal: hello and greetings
<Burgundavia> please don't knock over all the plants on the way in
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> to late
<Burgundavia> typical americans ;)
<nixternal> speaking of plants, ever figure out what those bugs were on your tator plants?
<Burgundavia> nope
<nixternal> outcome of the tators?
<Burgundavia> but they basically ruin my crop
<Burgundavia> some
<nixternal> ouch
<nixternal> that stinks
<Burgundavia> I need to dig the rest of them up this week
<^Ghost2U> B: I get that.. basically I have 2 pc's behind a router/access point, and i turned off dhcp for the router.. 
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> is your dhcpd running?
<^Ghost2U> no, and i don't know why not
<^Ghost2U> no errors during install
<Burgundavia> sudo /etc/init.d/dhcpd restart
<Burgundavia> try that
<^Ghost2U> didn't work
<Burgundavia> what did it say?
<^Ghost2U> for mine it's dhcp3-server, but it fails on stop & start
<nixternal> g'nite
<^Ghost2U> nite nix
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> likely a config issue
<Burgundavia> likely the server has a log
<Burgundavia> find out where it is and google the specific error
<Burgundavia> I have actually never setup LTSP
<BonBonTheJon> how to i use kdesvn and subversion
<^Ghost2U> I did under vmware, and connected to it from another v-m on another pc.. had it working but needed to shutdown dhcp on 2003 domain to do so, so i decided to create an isolated network to experiment
<^Ghost2U> the real pc's are a bigger pain than the virtual ones
<^Ghost2U> if you can believe that!
<RichEd> morning
<Burgundavia> morning RichEd
<RichEd> hey corey ... how's canada ?
<Burgundavia> good
<luckyed> Hi guys! I need to know how to configure local device access for ltsp clients in Ubuntu 6.10. Anyone knows where to activate this?
<cbx33> luckyed: it should be on by default
<luckyed> Tried but it didn't work. I logged in remotely, plugged in a usb stick, but nothing happened. Also couldn't find any entries in /media or /mnt. Isn't the lts.conf used anymore?
<cbx33> hmm.... ogra would know more
<luckyed> It's weird, cause I found two example lts.conf files, but none that is actually being used
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> I'm not really the best one to ask about it........but I know ogra would know for sure
<ogra> luckyed, hey ... on a fresh edubuntu 6.10 install the localdev access is enabled by default via /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
* cbx33 was right :D
<ogra> but you need to grant the access rights per user through the gnome user admin guoi or by adding the users to the fuse group
<highvolt1ge> lguera: pong
<cbx33> ahhh.....there ya go
<cbx33> thanks ogra I'll remember that one
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<cbx33> ogra: I can start testing today if you'd like
<ogra> i need to document it on the wiki or something, so ubuntu users know what to do
<cbx33> ogra: yes like on the Getting Started on the edubuntu homepage
<ogra> cbx33, any test any time counts ;)
<cbx33> ogra: ok dude....here I go
<cbx33> did you get my message yesterday
<cbx33> about testing the multiple install procedures?
<ogra> we need to test all procedures in all variations
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> *and the parts i outlined on the mailing list if you have thin client HW
<cbx33> ok I'll try
<ogra> dont forget about /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/qemu-ltsp ;)
<luckyed> OK, so I guess I'll just try to copy that sample lts.conf in there, cause there's none yet...
<ogra> luckyed, thats wrong
<ogra> are you sure you use 6.10 ?
<cbx33> ogra: ok
<ogra> luckyed, how did you install ? did you by chance use the liveCD which doesnt install ltsp ? 
<luckyed> Yes, I used the live cd, but then installed ltsp-server-standalone and openssh-server and then ran ltsp-client-setup. Ltsp is working great, but there's no lts.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ and when plugging in usb sticks they don't get mounted.
<ogra> run: sudo dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical edubuntu-artwork
<ogra> that will give you the edubuntu defaults in ltsp
<ogra> thats the part the normal installer usually does for you 
<pygi> hi ogra 
<ogra> (which is missing if you install ltsp-server-standalone afterwards)
<luckyed> I'm just doing it....
<ogra> it should tell you about setting ltsp defaults :)
<luckyed> But after that I still need to add users to the fuse group afterwards?
<ogra> yep
<pygi> 
<luckyed> OK, let's see...
<luckyed> Ahem, if the group fuse doesn't exist, I can just create it, right? :)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> ergh
<ogra> install ltspfs  :)
<ogra> it will do the necessary bits
* ogra makes a note to put that in the install instructions
<luckyed> hmm, installed ltspfs and added the user to group fuse, but it still doesn't work. What about ltspfsd? Do I have to install it, too?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> it should be installed in the client environment already, ltsp-build-client does that
<ogra> did you reboot the client after the edubuntu-artwork stuff ?
<luckyed> yes
<ogra> the lts.conf is only read on boot
<luckyed> Just had a look: ltspfsd isn't installed
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> it shouldnt be installed on the server ... but surely in the chroot ...
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l ltspfsd 
<ogra> does that return something ?
<luckyed> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
<luckyed> | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed
<luckyed> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
<luckyed> ||/ Name           Version        Description
<luckyed> +++-==============-==============-============================================
<luckyed> ii  ltspfsd        0.4.3-0ubuntu4 Fuse based remote filesystem daemon for LTSP
<ogra> right, its there
<ogra> is the fuse module loaded on the server ?
<ogra> (it should have been loaded by the fuse-utilspackage)
<luckyed> hmm, modprobe fuse on the server gives me back nothing. That means it's installed, right?
<ogra> lsmod|grep fuse
<ogra> :)
<luckyed> OK, it's installed
<ogra> then it should work ...
<ogra> you dont use the same user one the server and the client, do you ?
<luckyed> Nope, it's a different user just created for testing
<ogra> ok
<ogra> try: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<ogra> that will enable the root account on the thin client
<ogra> then switch to console on the booted client
<ogra> log inh as root with the password you created
<ogra> run: ps ax|grep ltspfsd
<ogra> and check if ltspfsd is running
<ogra> if thats the case, plug in a device and check if it appears in /var/run/drives
<luckyed> OK, just a sec...
<pips1> hi ogra, do you need anything testing in particular?
<pips1> *tested
<luckyed> OK, I can't login as root on the client. Always says authentication failure. And there's no directory drives in /var/run
<luckyed> ltspfsd is running on the client, though
<ogra> how do you know if you cant log in ?
<ogra> pips1, anything indeed :)
<luckyed> I did ps ax | grep ltspfsd as user and it showed me the process...
<ogra> as what user ?
<luckyed> I slightly remember sth about the root account not being activatable on the client, has that changed?
<ogra> there are no users on a thin client 
<ogra> the above enabled it
<luckyed> as the test user that's in the fuse group
<ogra> if you followed my step by step guide
<ogra> on the client ?
<ogra> there is no user on the client and there shouldnt be one  
<ogra> unless you added one (lock that please)
<luckyed> It's the user account I created on the server to have an account to log in on the client
<ogra> pips1, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current as always :)
<ogra> luckyed, ??
<ogra> there are no accounts on the clients
<ogra> the client just runs an X server you never log in *on the client* but on the server *via* the client
<cbx33> ogra: just getting iso
<luckyed> But I have to type a user name and password when I log in on the client, OK? So that's the user I'm talking about
<ogra> the underlying linux system on the client that runs the X server has no users
<ogra> (the one you should switch to with alt-f1)
<luckyed> OK OK, I know that, you know what I meant...
<ogra> ok
<ogra> the sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd should have asked you for a password (at least twice)
<highvoltage> ogra: it's best to test with a daily build, right?
<ogra> use "root" for log in and the password you gave for the above command
<ogra> highvoltage, best with the most recent, yes
<highvoltage> ok thanks
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/
<luckyed> Yes it has. I have typed a password twice, it was accepted, but when I try to log in as root via the client it's not accepted as viable password
<ogra> and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/
<pips1> highvoltage: good question, I was about to ask that :-)
<ogra> dont use the "current" link, iuf a rebuild is done it might get updated in teh middle of your download 
<ogra> luckyed, but you switched to console, right ?
<highvoltage> ooh, ok
* cbx33 never uses the current link
<ogra> well, if you test nightlies, the current link is fine
<ogra> just not 24h before a release :) since we rebuild them often then :)
<pips1> ogra: what happens if use rysnc and it gets rebuilt in the middle? is that a problem?
<luckyed> I guess the reason I can't log in as root via the console is that this should be disabled. I remember that was the case with ltsp4.2...
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> it is disabled through the locked password which you unlocked with the above command
<luckyed> On the 1st console I saw a message notifying me that a device sda has been plugged in. Not visible anywhere, though...
<ogra> thats a good sign, so the HW side should eb ok
<ogra> *be
<ogra> can you check that the right lts.conf is in place ?
<ogra> [default] 
<ogra>         X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
<ogra>         LOCALDEV=True
<ogra>         SOUND=True
<ogra>         NBD_SWAP=True
<ogra> that would be the default lts.conf edubuntu-artwork installs in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<ogra> (only if you didnt add one manually already)
<luckyed> I have that same lts.conf, but at the end there's another line SYSLOG_HOST=server
<ogra> oh, right
<ogra> copy paste error
<luckyed> Where would a usb-drive be mounted to anyways? /home/username/somewhere or /media/ or /tmp/ ?
<ogra>  /media/$USER/<devicename>
<luckyed> But it still doesn't get mounted... :(
<ogra> but it will also show up on your desktop and in the places menu ... as well as on the left side in nautilus
<luckyed> it doesn't :( 
<luckyed> OK, so again these are the steps I took, perhaps you can see sth essential missing: 1. Installed Edubuntu via the live cd 2. Installed ltsp-server-standalone and openssh-server 3. sudo ltsp-build-client 4. Adjusted IP settings in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf 5. ltsp-update-sshkeys 6. sudo dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical edubuntu-artwork 7. sudo aptitude install ltspfs 8. adduser test fuse Did I forget anything???
<ogra> not that i'm aware of
<ogra> if you run the command fusermount as test, what do you get ?
<ogra> s/as test/as the user test/
<luckyed> fusermount as test gives me: "missing mountpoint argument"
<ogra> ok, test is allowed to use fuse
<ogra> so the group addition is fine
<luckyed> But what could be missing, then?
<luckyed> OK, did a stupid mistake: ltsp is currently using english keyboard layout and that was the reason why I couldn't log in as root. My password's different on a German keyboard.... :( But now I looked in /var/run/drives as root and found a usbdisk-sda listed there! Yippieh! So now my only prob is: How do I get this stick mounted?
<ogra> well, it got mounted (literally) but the communication between desktop and client seems not to work
<ogra> add
<ogra>     XKBLAYOUT=de
<ogra>     XKBVARIANT=nodeadkeys
<ogra> to your lts.conf btw
<ogra> thats what i use here
<luckyed> done. 
<luckyed> Is it maybe possible to mount that stick manually after it's discovered. The file in /var/run/drives is sth like a device file in /dev or am I missing sth? Then I could maybe mount it with an ordinary mount?
<ogra> hmm, the only thing i can imagine would be to reboot the server, but that wuld likely only work around the preoblem if it works
<luckyed> Or, to say it more clearly. How does a drive get mounted once it appeared in /var/run/drives? With fusermount? Maybe I could try and find the missing part if I only knew where about to look...
<ogra> nope
<ogra> it gets mounted by udev which then triggers the mount in the users session on the server
<luckyed> Hmm, when I try to start the gnome user admin gui, it crashes and a bug report opens immediately. Maybe there's some connection here?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> thats weird
<ogra> works here
<ogra> you did only run "adduser test fuse" before ? and didnt fiddle with /etc/group or something ?
<luckyed> no, I just removed the self-created group fuse before I installed ltspfs, but after that I just used adduser test fuse
<ogra> oh
<ogra> how did you remove it ? with delgroup ?
<luckyed> yep
<ogra> hmm, but something there seems to have gone wrong if your gui doesnt start
<luckyed> Well, in /etc/group there's the group fuse with user test added and it has a guid 115
<ogra> and there is no other fuse entry ?
<ogra> if so, that sounds about right
<cbx33> ogra 17.1 instlal fine
<ogra> great
<cbx33> just gonna try a resize install
<ogra> did you test the ltsp bits ?
<cbx33> not yet....
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> do you want me to do those now or lateR?
<cbx33> what is more crucial
<cbx33> and do you have that link to the LTSP testing bits
<ogra> i'll do them anyway ... knowing that the basic install didnt fail is already worth a lot, just go on :)
<ogra> its on the Testing/Current wikipage
<cbx33> u sure I don;t mind testing the LTSP extras
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I can boot up a laptop and have some test back in about 30 mins
<cbx33> I'll do it now :p
<ogra> pips1, can you add the other mirrors to  http://www.edubuntu.com/Download ? it currently only shows the main archive 
<ogra> or highvoltage ^^^^
<jsgotangco> hello
<ogra> heya jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> ogra!
<highvoltage> pips1: can you check my permissions, I can't edit that page :/
<highvoltage> hello jsgotangco and ogra :)
* ogra takes a coffebreak 
<ogra> +e
<ogra> highvoltage, thanks for caring :)
<luckyed> I'll try and restart the server...brb
<pips1> highvoltage: I just noticed that authors in Drupal can only edit their own content. I'll log in as admin and do it....
<pips1> ogra: just to make sure, do you really want me to add that whole huge table of download mirrors from http://www.ubuntu.com/download to http://www.edubuntu.com/Download ?! I would need to replace anything to make it Edubuntu-specific, or can I duplicate those links?
<luckyed> ogra: Thanks a looooot for your help! Rebooted the server and now it works! Also the user-admin-gui works . Obviously messed sth up with the addgroup fuse...But now there's one more point: I tried to create a folder on the usbdisk and then logged out, took out the stick and checked if the folder is still there (by plugging it in the server), but it wasn't. I read about this problem and reckon it has sth to do with the stick actually being mounted in a tem
<pips1> ogra: I don't think it makes sense to duplicate content that is maintained in one place, if it can be avoided... in this case it might be better to just link to the ubuntu download page, no?
* pips1 checks one of those mirrrors, to see if edubuntu is available there
<pips1> oh...
<cbx33> ogra: hmmm....evolution alarm notify just caused bugbuddy to load.....
<cbx33> could be a memory problem.....the fact I dont have enough on the vm?
<cbx33> never happened before
<cbx33> i can;'t get my second user to login
<cbx33> kicks back to the ldm
<cbx33> just gonna check logs in a min
<cbx33> hmmm.he nac log into the server fine
<cbx33> after logging him into the server he can now log into the client
<cbx33> WOW Local devices works really nice
<pips1> I would need to change all the mirror links to the edubuntu directory...
<pips1> cbx33: I just installed from scratch, and during the initial startup (usplash?) the artwork is fubared, colours are all distorted... ?!
<pips1> did you get that too?
<pips1> gdm is fine
<pips1> strange... I can't login from a client.. hmm. 
* pips1 checks the cabeling
* pips1 goes to get food first
<cbx33> pips1: hmm....I couldn't loginto client with my second user
<cbx33> but first user was ok
<cbx33> the usplash was fine on mine
<cbx33> but there is a bug about garbage usplash somewhere
<cbx33> ogra: how do I eject a device?
<luckyed> cbx33: Having the same prob. Just did a few checks and created a folder on the usb-drive, then logged off and unplugged it. Sometimes the folder was still there, sometimes it wasn't written to the stick. Guess this is still a bug not yet fixed, but I also wonder if there's a "safe way" to unmount it...
<highvoltage> RichEd: hehe. sorry for that :)
<RichEd> no problem ... I though I was honoured to get a personal call ... and then it was just a wrong number :(
<RichEd> I was just a wrong number 
<highvoltage> RichEd: ok, I'll owe you a personal call then!
<RichEd> :)
<highvoltage> phones that auto-complete numbers can be a bit of a hassle :)
<jsgotangco> hey
<highvoltage> hey mistir gotangco
<jsgotangco> get one of those all-in-one phones
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> i think i'm already one of them crackberries
<jsgotangco> if i don't stop, my thumbs will be come deformed in a few years
<RichEd> hey jsgotangco :)
<pips1> jsgotangco: hehe
<jsgotangco> RichEd: very very high-level presentation coming your way
<RichEd> claire newman will mail you soon about a hotel suggestion for Mark when he is in Philippines ... I've let her know that you would be keen for a quiet chat if he is at a loose end in the middle of his schedule/
<jsgotangco> oh ok 
* jsgotangco wonders if claire is coming too
<jsgotangco> RichEd: speak of the devil she just emailed
<RichEd> ^^ claire newman will mail you soon : that's what I said dude !
<RichEd> ======== edubuntu meeting in 4 minutes ======= #ubuntu meeting =======
<jsgotangco> RichEd: is she online on irc?
<rodarvus> good morning
<RichEd> hi rodarvus 
<pips1> hullo rodarvus
<RichEd> jsgotangco: msg ... she's around in #canonical
<stgraber> hi
<rodarvus> still in time for the meeting :)
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<jsgotangco> RichEd: i dont think its a good idea for me to just barge in to that channel
* RichEd adjusts jsgotangco monitor settings
<RichEd> ^ jsgotangco: msg
<jsgotangco> doh
<RichEd> not join :)
<ogra> pips1, right, the same list of mirrors as on http://www.ubuntu.com/download
<cbx33> ogra: can we eject these local devices
<pips1> ogra: ok
<RichEd> ======== edubuntu meeting now ======= #ubuntu_meeting =======
<ogra> cbx33, no need to
<ogra> they get automatically unmopuinted on the client 
<ogra> if there was no data transfer for 2 seconds ....
<ogra> so you can just unplug 
<cbx33> ogra: COOL!
<cbx33> that rocks
<cbx33> now what about my logging in problem?
<cbx33> I couldn't log in with my new user
<cbx33> but once they had logged into the server directly they could login
<ogra> hrm
<cbx33> wnat me to try crweating another user?
<cbx33> oh and I still have that sound problem
<ogra> yes and please  check ~/.xsession-errors after the failed attempt 
<ogra> file a bug for the sound prob
<cbx33> ok
<pips1> cbx33: let me know the bug # for that sound prob you're talking about
<cbx33> ogra: cannot remove a gstreamer file, because it doesn't exist
<sbalneav> Morning
<cbx33> hey sbalneav 
<sbalneav> There a meeting this morning?
<cbx33> sbalneav: yup
<pips1> sbalneav: right now
<cbx33> ogra: what package shall I assign the sound bug to?
<ogra> cbx33, ltsp
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> i'll have to find a way to reproduce it ...
<cbx33> rm: cannot remove `/home/rich/.gstreamer-0.10/registry.*.xml': No such file or directory
<cbx33> rich was my user
<ogra> argh
<ogra> ok
<ogra> crap
<cbx33> sorry dude
<ogra> damned last minute fixes
<cbx33> pips1: just reporting bug now
<ogra> its missing an || true 
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> dude you rock
<ogra> in the new sound handling stuff
<ogra> please attach that to the bug 
<luckyed> ogra: Do the local devices usually get unmounted when the user signs off? Cause I tried that and yet sth I wrote on the stick previously wasn't saved there...
<ogra> luckyed, it unmounts two seconds after the4 last data was transferred 
<ogra> (automatically)
<ogra> so either you pulled it out while it was still writing or you dont have write permissions 
<luckyed> OK, sounds good, but you don't know when a data transfer is finished, so those 2 secs are probably a bit too short for plugging out. 
<luckyed> I'm just installing Ubuntu 6.10 on another pc and will go through all those steps again just for testing. Having 15 clients with unused harddrives improves possibilities.... :)
<luckyed> And once 6.10 Final is out, that means migrating the server...uh*oh*
<pips1> luckyed: if you can, try testing a dapper -> edgy dist-upgrade, that would be great
<ogra> right
<ogra> but it wont go flawless for the chroot i guess
<luckyed> I will! Just not today anymore, as I'm doing this during work and there's only 90mins left :) Will post the results tomorrow
<ogra> luckyed, schoenen feierabend dann :)
<luckyed> You mean an upgrade with a dapper with ltsp already working, do you?
<pips1> yes
<pips1> well, don't test it on a productive system, but on a fresh dapper install on a test machine..
<luckyed> Any preferences for which system I should use? I have an ubuntu +ltsp4.2 or an Edubuntu with integrated ltsp to try the update with...
<ogra> oh, ubuntu with 4.2 to edubuntu with ltsp 5 wont work ... 
<ogra> i need to find out how to properly uninstall 4.2 in such cases
<highvoltage> well, normally it's just a tarball that extracted, so rm -Rf /opt/ltsp-4.2 would probably suffice :)
<highvoltage> oh, and it installs an lts directory in /var/lib/tftpboot (or just /tftpboot), but that doesn't bother ubuntu ltsp.
<ogra> highvoltage, right, i mean the changes it does to dhcp tftp etc
<highvoltage> and the dhcpd settings wouldn't be a problem either since ltsp would use /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf :)
<ogra> but it needs testing :)
<highvoltage> ah, of course!
<luckyed> OK, so I'll use the Edubuntu then. About uninstalling 4.2: I installed it (as far as I remember) following the ltspguide.pfd. Wouldn't it be enough to just uninstall the packets used there? That is, dhcp3-server, dhcp3-common, dhcp3-dev, tftpd-hpa, nfs-kernel-server, xinetd and libwww-perl. If the dhcp3-server is installed again with the ltsp-server-standalone, this should be working, I guess...
<ogra> and proper documentation for people wanting to switch
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi ogra :)
<ogra> well, our ltsp uses dhcpd as well :)
* Kamping_Kaiser grovels before the almighty ogra 
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, hi
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<ogra> luckyed, xinetd is surely something you dont want in ubuntus ltsp
<ogra> libwww-perl isnt used anywhere ... you can leave it or drop it
<ogra> dhcp3-server and nfs-kernel-server are used ...
<ogra> and will override the old config
<cbx33> ogra: sorry to bug you, I can't scroll up here in cgi irc....I something flash by about attaching something tothe sound bug
<cbx33> pips1: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/66735
<pips1> ta
<ogra> tftpd-hpa is used as well ...
<ogra> and netkit-inetd instead of xinetd
<cbx33> ogra: there's the bug for the sound stuff
<ogra> got it in my inbox ;)
<luckyed> And if you just uninstalled ltsp-utils and delete the 4.2 folder in /opt/
<cbx33> ah yes...i forget LP does that
<cbx33> 000b6a5631f9 there's a mac if ever I saw one :p
<cbx33> hmmm: Asiarock Incorporatio
<ogra> luckyed, well, you need to replace xinetd with netkit-inetd as well, but that might suffice
<jsgotangco> Asiarock
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> nice name
<jsgotangco> actually Asia really rocks
<ogra> we should have a conf there :)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: you just opened up pandora's box for you call for suggestions, people will just put wishlists there ;) (it alredy started)
<RichEd> good.
<RichEd> that's what we want.
<jsgotangco> really, compiz on edubuntu?
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> eek
<bddebian> Howdy
<jsgotangco> RichEd: on a final note though, shouldn't us techies at least know some education related stuff that may help *us* in improving stuff
<cbx33> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-artwork/+bug/47336 - is that bug specialised to edubutnu
<cbx33> I thought it was a generic gtk issue?
<cbx33> ogra: comments on the above ?
<cbx33> did you want me to add those bugs to my testing results
<LaserJock> cbx33: dude, we're having a meeting :-)
<cbx33> yeh I know, this is a MIW - message in waiting
<LaserJock> cbx33: loading up the ogra queue :-)
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> he loves it really ;)
<cbx33> sorry to pile on the message ogra 
<RichEd> jsgotangco: explain your comment ?
* pips1 reads the replies to the ML to RichEd's questions posted earlier
<sbalneav> Heh, just realized I wasn't in here.
<LaserJock> bad bad boy
<RichEd> jsgotangco: yes, we will get a lot of silly wish list requests ... our attitutude must be "we are listening". We then list them on the wiki. We then organise into possible / impossible. We then prioritise by dev effort vs benefit. We then select 10. We deliver at least 5.
<RichEd> Actions:
<RichEd>     * Engage the Ubuntu Education community to identify 10 most desired desktop features
<RichEd>     * Prioritise the feature list against work effort vs benefit with the developer community
<RichEd>     * Deliver at least 5 features in Edubuntu Edgy+1
<jsgotangco> thats reasonable for 6 months work
<^Ghost2U> does dapper automatically continue the install when a chroot build fails
<pips1> RichEd: when you say Desktop, you should somehow also mention "connectivity" or something. E.g. I think it is important to get edubuntu work nicely within an existing network...
<RichEd> pips1: sure
<^Ghost2U> can anyone help with a problem install?
<LaserJock> not if we don't know what problem you are having :-)
<adrian_> !ask
<ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<BonBonTheJon> how do i checkout the svn of the handbook
<pips1> in a fresh server install, my second NIC doesn't seem to be configured (checking with ifconfig). What command can I use to see if the NIC is recognised by the system at all? (The cabling seems fine, router lights on..)
<BonBonTheJon> pips1: try lspci to see if it is on the bus
<lguerra> Hi
<lguerra> RichEd: ping
<RichEd> hello lguerra : we keep on missing each other
<pips1> BonBonTheJon: thanks, did that and it shows up indeed. hmm
<pips1> hi lguerra
<LaserJock> BonBonTheJon: there is the Ubuntu documentation team repo
<BonBonTheJon> LaserJock: I tried 'svn checkout http://svn.binaryredneck.net/handbook edubuntu-handbook' but it can't connect
<LaserJock> hmm
<RichEd> lguerra: can we make a time to chat ? I need to take care of some things and then move on to an appointment.
<LaserJock> BonBonTheJon: you can use svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-doc to get the doc team repo
<LaserJock> BonBonTheJon: the handbook is in the edubuntu directory
<RichEd> lguerra: can I mail you the outline of the presentation by this time tomorrow ?
<RichEd> and some questions for you to answer
<BonBonTheJon> LaserJock: i have the doc team repo
<BonBonTheJon> LaserJock: how do i look at a docbook
<RichEd> lguerra: do you have the information we spoke about from Mauricio Hernandez ?
<LaserJock> BonBonTheJon:  yelp <mainxmlfile>.xml
<lguerra> RichEd: we can speak already if you desire it
<lguerra> RichEd: no i dont have it , he told me that he sent it to you
<RichEd> lguerra: I have 15 minutes to finish off some items for my work day and then I have an appointment.
<RichEd> lguerra: can you give me an email address ? I will send you an email with a plan of events, and I will copy in mhz
<^Ghost2U> ive tried to install dapper 4 times and for some reason dhcp doesn't work, so i can't run ltsp
<lguerra> lguerra80@gmail.com
<RichEd> okay ... I will send you an email and can you try to find me the same time tomorrow here ? I will have more time then ?
<lguerra> RichEd: the girls ask me everyday bout you
<RichEd> I will mail you now to confirm
<RichEd> lguerra: I will send some information in the email you can share with them :)
<lguerra> RichEd: ok
<lguerra> RichEd: remember that my utc is -5
<RichEd> and also, I have a long email from pips1 and highvoltage about the spanish edubuntu.org so we are discussing this item as well.
<lguerra> alright, we talk about this tomorrow 
<lguerra> when are you gonna send me the email?
<lguerra> so then i can tell this girl who's helping me... to be there by the time it arrives
<lguerra> RichEd: when are you gonna send me the email?
<lguerra> RichEd: so then i can tell this girl who's helping me... to be there by the time it arrives
<RichEd> I
<RichEd> lguerra: I'll send you something in the next 10 minutes.
<lguerra> ok thanks!!
<cbx33> hi all
<lguerra> RichEd:  ok thanks
<cbx33> oh ogra isnt here
<cbx33> do we have any C coders here?
<juliux> cbx33, a little c coder ;)
<cbx33> hey juliux c an I pm you?
<BonBonTheJon> i do some c
<sbalneav> ^Ghost2U: What's not working with the dhcpd?  Does it not start?
<highvoltage> BonBonTheJon: are you affiliated with JobBonJovi? :)
<BonBonTheJon> highvoltage: no, lol
<^Ghost2U> nope, not starting
<BonBonTheJon> ^Ghost2U: does it give any errors when you try to start it
<pips1> sbalneav: I'm trying to debug this fresh server install... thin client fails at pxe dhcp discovery stage. I seems that my second NIC wasn't configured. which is strange, because I tested this with the exact same hardware with a daily 5 days ago and everything worked. 
<nixternal> oy, sorry i wasn't a the meeting. i had midterms this morning
<^Ghost2U> just says failed
<sbalneav> ^Ghost2U: Can you paste your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file to the pastebin?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<sbalneav> pips1: second nic on the thin client, or on the server?
<pips1> on the server
<sbalneav> If it's the server, you'll have to adjust your dhcpd.conf file in /etc/ltsp.
<pips1> but it's supposed to work out-of-the-box ?!
* pips1 checks /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf anyway
<sbalneav> What's the network config for eth0 and eth1?
<pips1> sbalneav: my dhcpd.conf is in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27230/
<cbx33> !seen ogra
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 47m 54s ago, quiting: "Verlassend"
<cbx33> is he gonna be back?
<cbx33> ping Seveas 
<RichEd> g'night guys ... meeting with the domestic government = (the wife)
<cbx33> nn RichEd 
<pips1> cu RichEd
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> its just 12:30am here
<pips1> sbalneav: my ifconfig output is in http://paste-ubuntu-nl.org/27234/
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<sbalneav> I'm timing out on the pastebins
<pips1> oh
<pips1> erm, sbalneav http://paste.linux-vserver.org/505 for ifconfig
<sbalneav> That's eth1, what's eth0?
<sbalneav> Not a 192.168.0.xx address, I hope :)
<pips1> that's the problem eth0 doesn't show up anywhere, although the NIC is recognised in lspci
<sbalneav> Did it recognize during install?
<pips1> , sbalneav http://paste.linux-vserver.org/506 for dhcpd.conf
<pips1> yes it did, I was shown the "choose primary network interface" question
<sbalneav> Sounds like an installer bug.
<pips1> yes.. I was just wondering.. since it all worked 5 days ago
<sbalneav> What's your primary interface?  i.e. your backbone address.
<pips1> jsgotangco: did you have a chance to test the latest daily?
<sbalneav> Maybe we're running into a "My backbone's 192.168.0.xx, and I want to configure the ltsp interface as 192.168.0.xx, so things get borked" issue.
<pips1> sbalneav: do you mean my router's ip range?
<pips1> my router's ip is 192.168.1.1
<sbalneav> Hmm, should be ok then.
<sbalneav> I'd say it's an installer bug.
<pips1> yeah, really strange
<pips1> right
<pips1> I just wish I could confirm this with someone who has just installed the latest daily...
<sbalneav> I could install it again tonight.  It worked ok for me a few days ago.
<pips1> cbx33: are you testing the latest daily?
<cbx33> pips1, what's up?
<cbx33> I can get it and test if you want
<pips1> highvoltage: and what about you ^^^ ?
<jsgotangco> pips1: i haven't its in my todo list for tomorrow pre-RC though
<pips1> cbx33: well, I just did a fresh server install and the second NIC isn't configured so I can't have thin clients at all 
<cbx33> hmmm....
<pips1> jsgotangco: oki
* cbx33 only ever has one nic
<cbx33> but I can setup a VM with two
<pips1> ah, ic
<cbx33> what are we on 18 now?
<pips1> hmm. maybe I did something wrong during the install. I'll reinstall it before I make a fuss about an installer bug
<sbalneav> cbx33: I'm fine, BTW :)
<sbalneav> You'll be at MV?
<cbx33> no :(
<cbx33> work won;t let me go
<pips1> well, I rsynced this moring, about 8 hours ago
<sbalneav> Suxxors
<cbx33> yup
<sbalneav> can we rsync images?
<cbx33> yes
<sbalneav> *really*?
<pips1> sbalneav: I'll be at MV. cbx33 was so friendly to let me have his seat :)
<cbx33> apparently
* pips1 hugs cbx33
<sbalneav> I've been downloading fresh everytime!
* cbx33 hugs pips1 
<sbalneav> How does one do this?
<cbx33> sbalneav, I always do anyway...as work don;t have an open port for rsync
<cbx33> grab ogras rsync script
<sbalneav> ok, where?
<cbx33> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/
<cbx33> rsyncer.sh
<cbx33> I did start a GUI for it
<cbx33> grasynco
<cbx33> but it's unfinished...
<sbalneav> oh frabjous day!
* cbx33 whispers to pips1 
<cbx33> (I think he's happy)
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> indeed
* highvoltage catches up with hilights
<highvoltage> pips1: I'm downloading the 17.1 daily
<pips1> ic
<sbalneav> Whew.
<highvoltage> 5 hours 34 minutes remaining
<highvoltage> *sigh*
<sbalneav> Finally managed to get most of the ltsp updates to the handbook done.
<pips1> sbalneav: check the --help options. you can specify to rsync by --arch etc
<highvoltage> I'll take it to work and install under vmware tomorrow
<sbalneav> committed to svn
<pips1> \o/
<sbalneav> I'll go through tonight for a quick re-read. 
<cbx33> hi nixternal 
<cbx33> can you tell me how to fix my images in the handbook?
* pips1 starts to re-install again, to verify if it's really a installer bug...
<sbalneav> Be back in a bit.  Need to move servers.
<nixternal> i haven't even looked at the images...what is the issue with them?
<pawman> hi there, Does anyone know a good program to run over a LAN to chat and use whiteboard that does not go over the internet or though this could be an external option
<cbx33> nixternal, they don't show 
<cbx33> the directories are changed I think
<cbx33> is that all I need tochange?
<nixternal> hmm
<cbx33> or is it fixed upon make?
<cbx33> do we even make..?
<nixternal> ya we make
<cbx33> thought so
<nixternal> it should be fixed in the make...i will take a look at it here in a second
<cbx33> check my student control panel page
<cbx33> thans
<cbx33> thanks#
<nixternal> no problem
<pips1> pawman: no sorry
<pawman> mmm
<cbx33> pawman, hmm...
<cbx33> does jabber do whiteboard?
<pawman> not sure
<pips1> highvoltage: ogra asked me to update the edubuntu.org/Download page with a table for all the mirrors by country... Now, I can copy paste the table from ubuntu.com, but I'll need to adjust all links to go to the edubuntu subdir... can you possibly help me out with a little bit of 'sed' magic or smth?
<pips1> any sed and awk experts around? :)
<cbx33> not an expert but what can i do to help
<cbx33> what's the input and desired output
<highvoltage> pips1: in cases like these I just copy and paste it into gedit and do a simple search and replace :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> good call highvoltage 
<highvoltage> pips1: sed is a bit overkill :)
<pips1> well, I need to figure it out exactly, but I think we'll need to add / change the path of all links
<cbx33> sed rawks
<pawman> can jabber run only in an internal network?
<cbx33> pips1, mind if I take a look?#
<highvoltage> pawman: if you want it to
<cbx33> pawman, I think you can setup your own internal servers
<pawman> Instant messaging will work
<highvoltage> pawman: yes
<cbx33> if you just want a central admin to message someone then Student Control Panel does that in edubutnu in edgy
<highvoltage> pawman: by default a jabber server doesn't talk to other jabber servers
<pawman> Wow cool!  Do I just download it and put it on the server
<pips1> cbx33: well, ogra basically wants this http://www.ubuntu.com/download but with links to the according edubuntu dirs...
<cbx33> ahhh
<pawman> or Does jabber just use SIP
<pips1> cbx33: however, I'm not familiar with the directory structure on the mirrors. Are they all standardised? they should be, right?
<cbx33> no that's what I was thinking
<cbx33> do they all have edubuntu
* pips1 checks a few random mirror examples
<highvoltage> pawman: you can apt-get install it on ubuntu :)
<cbx33> pips1, http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/ubuntu.iso/edubuntu/edgy/
<cbx33> seems to be the way to go
<cbx33> http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/ubuntu.iso/edubuntu/
<pawman> I've got gentoo on the server?  Is there a version for that
<cbx33> pawman, I've no idea
<cbx33> try #jabber
<pips1> cbx33: not sure if I got you there...
<cbx33> pips1, http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/ubuntu.iso/edubuntu/
<cbx33> replace the 6.06 with edubuntu
<pawman> thanks
<cbx33> pips1, make sense now?
<pips1> I'm not sure if this works for all mirrors, I just checked this one and it works rather differently? http://planetmirror.com/pub/ubuntu/releases/6.06/
<cbx33> pips1, no it's the same
<cbx33> goto http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/ubuntu/releases/
<cbx33> into the parent
<cbx33> and you'll see edubuntu
<pips1> ah, you need to add the /edbuntu/ in-between the /releases/ and /6.06.1/
<cbx33> try doing a find/replace on the code for 6.06/ to edubuntu/6.06/
<cbx33> yes
<pips1> right
<pips1> ok, will do
<^Ghost2U> got it!
<cbx33> or which ever version he's talking about
<pips1> and then I can use my cool new firefox plug-in to quickly open all links in tabs :)
<cbx33> ooooh
<cbx33> did you write it pips1 ?
<pips1> openselectedlinks
<pips1> no, I didn't!
<^Ghost2U> it was my /etc/ltsp3/dhcpd.conf
<pips1> I'm only recently getting into discovering firefox plugins... so handy
<pips1> https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/841/
* cbx33 hasn't got any firefox plugins installed
<pips1> a useful plugin for quickly visually comparing nice site designs is "Firefox Showcase" https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/1810/ 
* pips1 shuts up and gets back to work
<^Ghost2U> gotta go to work, laters
<cbx33> pips1, ooooh nice
<adrian_> Have you heard about the trouble Firefox is making? google iceweasel ! I was surprised
<pips1> adrian_: interesting
<cbx33> bbl
<adrian_> pipsl: It is perhaps a cautionary tale for any software that starts life on Linux and then gets Lured into the Windows world
<highvoltage> adrian_: it actually started life on Windows :)
<highvoltage> adrian_: and the trouble comes more from incompatible policies between Debian and Mozilla than anything else
<adrian_> Good point :) 
<sbalneav> Does anyone know a way to coerce firefox into changing the "close tab" button back to one on the right hand side, as opposed to a close tab button on each tab?
<sbalneav> Because re-training muscle memory is a pain.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I don't think there's an option for that yet :-/
<sbalneav> !
<sbalneav> Foo
<sbalneav> I know there was a spec for "tab unification", i.e. make tabs behave the same in all applications.  What would be REALLY nice would be if there was a setting in the control panel somewhere, where you could say: [ ]  individual close button [ ]  single close on left [X]  single close on right.
<sbalneav> Then all tab interfaces would conform to that.
<sbalneav> that would be saweet.
<sbalneav> Hey Hedgie
<sbalneav> svn update on the docs.  I'm proofreading my stuff now :)
<pips1> nice ideas about the tab unification 
<pips1> would be great to have it unified for gnome too, think gedit, etc
<cbx33> hehe
<Amaranth> ?
<cbx33> funny I prefer per window buttons :p
<cbx33> hey pips1 did it work?
<Amaranth> have what unified?
<sbalneav> pips1: That's what I was thinking: any gnome-aware app would treat tabs the same way.
<pips1> Amaranth: <sbalneav> Does anyone know a way to coerce firefox into changing the "close tab" button back to one on the right hand side, as opposed to a close tab button on each tab?
<Amaranth> ah
* Amaranth likes it on each tab
<Amaranth> there is an epiphany plugin that makes it have it like firefox used to
<Amaranth> it makes the tabs shrink instead of having a scrollbar too
<Amaranth> but it doesn't set a maximum size so unless you have a bunch of tabs open it looks weird
* pips1 is building the ltsp i386 clients on his amd64 server
* pips1 goes for dinner
<cbx33> Amaranth, ooh ooh really
<cbx33> I hate that stupid scrolling thing
<Amaranth> yeah
<cbx33> if you could link me .... petesavage@ubuntu.com
<cbx33> when you have a sec
<Amaranth> http://www.sstuhr.dk/epiphany-extensions/
<cbx33> that'd be GREAT !
<cbx33> you rock
<cbx33> thanks Amaranth 
<Amaranth> it almost works like firefox anyway
<Amaranth> the X button is in the toolbar instead of the tab bar
<sbalneav> HedgeMage: pingity
<sbalneav> nixternal: or pingity you
<sbalneav> !seen ogra
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 1h 11m 57s ago, quiting: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: I'm kinda here, what's up?
<sbalneav> hey, a goodly chunk of the docs have been adapted from ltsp.org doco.
<sbalneav> We should attribute Jim McQuillan somewhere, as he wrote some of the original doco.
<pygi> hello folks
<cbx33> hey pygi 
<sbalneav> Where would be the logical place to put copyrights/attributions in the doco?
<sbalneav> HedgeMage: any idears?
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: ask pygi 
* HedgeMage pokes pygi 
<HedgeMage> sbalneav had a good question, pygi 
<pygi> yes Hedgie? :)
<HedgeMage> pygi:  sbalneav> Where would be the logical place to put copyrights/attributions in the 
<HedgeMage>                   doco?
<pygi> well, since we have authors already, I'd say put it under that, with following notice:
<pygi> Special thanks to:
<pygi> Jim McQuillan
<pygi> bla bla
<pygi> bla bla :)
<sbalneav> Do we have an authors section in the handbook?
<pygi> sbalneav: I think we do
<pygi> if we don't feel free to add it
<sbalneav> ok
<pips1> highvoltage: ing
<pips1> ppp
<highvoltage> pips1: ong
<highvoltage> eth
<pips1> hehe
<nixternal> [13:39:22]  <sbalneav> Where would be the logical place to put copyrights/attributions in the doco?
<pips1> will you be testing the server install on a machine with two NICs?
<nixternal> there are files already that contain all that info for Ubuntu Documentation
<nixternal> sorry...preparing for more midterms
<highvoltage> pips1: I would normally test with one, but testing with two won't be any more effort, so I can do that
<pips1> because there seems to be a new bug in the installer that forgets to configure the second NIC... I would like someone to be able to confirm this..
<highvoltage> pips1: what's the second nic supposed to be configured as?
<pips1> note, when you have two NICs, the installer will ask you which one you want to use as "primary network interface" <-- this is the outbound (internet facing) NIC
<highvoltage> ah, I see
<pips1> it will then automatically configure the second one as LTSP network NIC
<highvoltage> pips1: ok then I'll definately check, because if it does that it will probably do it in Ubuntu too, which sounds like a bit of a serious bug
<pips1> ^^^^ but the bug I encounter actually doesn't configure the second NIC as it did in the daily build 5 days ago :-/ 
<pips1> ok, great
<pips1> I'll write ogra a short email about my finding, and I will also remark that you'll also test this..
<pips1> oh, and what is my @edubuntu.org email address? what is used as the name before the @? Is it the wiki name? or philipp or what?
<highvoltage> launchpad name
<highvoltage> so in your case, philipp-din15@edubuntu.org
<highvoltage> but I think you can ask on #launchpad that they change that for you
<pips1> but what is the launchpad name? ah. that's a bit bizarre
<pips1> oh, I can simply change my launchpad name?!
<highvoltage> I don't know.
<highvoltage> I think even if you change it now, it will take the lp name you had whn you were added to the tem
<pips1> I'll try to change the LP name and see what happens
<pips1> ah, my name is already taken
<cbx33> pips1, use www.dnsstuff.com at the bottom to check if your mailbox exists
<pips1> cbx33: oh, that's useful. thanks!
<pips1> hmm, my mail bounced
<BonBonTheJon> i found an error in the handbook, how do i fix it
<pips1> good question, how is that ^^^^ currently handled? HedgeMage? nixternal?
<nixternal> you can grab the svn checkout, locate the file with the error, fix it, and email me a patch if you would like, or you can point out the error, and i can fix it quickly is possible
<pips1> BonBonTheJon: they aren't currently here.. I think you need to join the documentation team to get access to the svn repository... not sure
<BonBonTheJon> thanks pips1
<pips1> ah
<nixternal> hehe
<pips1> thanks nixternal
<nixternal> no problem
<BonBonTheJon> nixternal: oh, sorry, i didnt see yours since you didnt say my name
<nixternal> my apologies on that one
<stelis> nixternal: Hi
<nixternal> hi stelis
<BonBonTheJon> nixternal: in Why Edubuntu?, in Compatible, halfway there is a ? in front of OpenOffice
<stelis> Can I ask a couple of question about DocBook entities?
<nixternal> sure
<pips1> ack, all my test emails are bouncing back..
<nixternal> bouncing back from lists?
<stelis> Cheers. I've poking around and the libs/edubuntu.ent file seems to have obsolete entities
<stelis> It specifies Breezy Badger
<nixternal> ooh, good eye
<nixternal> i will gix that asap
<BonBonTheJon> nixternal: did you get mine too
<stelis> It is the main place for custom entities, then?
<pips1> nixternal: no, I'm trying to figure out what my new @edubuntu.org mail address is :-)
<nixternal> i will fix that too ;)
<nixternal> pips1: did you just get membership today?
<pips1> yep
<nixternal> congrats!
<pips1> ta!
<pips1> :)
<nixternal> anywho, you need to give it a few days for it to kick in
<pips1> right
<nixternal> there is a script that will run and create the account for your automagically
<nixternal> you can test it later today, or again tomorrow, and just keep and eye out on it
<pips1> do you happen to know if changing my launchpad name will change my email address too?
<nixternal> that i don't know about
<pips1> I'll ask in #launchpad then..
<nixternal> need to check with one of the admins many...i don't know, but maybe newz2000 would be able to answer that one
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> or #launchpad
<stelis> nixternal: I was also going ask about a new entity for the title of the Hand Book itself (if there isn't one already)
<nixternal> well, the reason we wouldn't create an entity for the title, is because Handbook can be translated, and if we make it an entity, then it would skip translation
<stelis> Hmm
<stelis> So I'd probably be better saying "this document" 
<stelis> Rather than referring to the title
<nixternal> this document, or this handbook, yes..that will be fine
<stelis> OK, thanks 
<BonBonTheJon> is the dhcp client really called ipconfig
<stelis> That's just a utility
<nixternal> nope
<BonBonTheJon> not to be confused with ifconfig?
<nixternal> errr.
<nixternal> i just caught that
<sbalneav> It is called ipconfig.
<BonBonTheJon> ok
<nixternal> ya, i was thinking ifconfig
<nixternal> ;)
<sbalneav> I ripped apart the initramfs and checked.  
<BonBonTheJon> ok, thank sbalneav
<sbalneav> Anyone who's looking at the handbook, should svn update.  I've been committing changes all day.
<sbalneav> at 35 here at my end currently. 
<stelis> sbalneav: Thanks
<BonBonTheJon> sbalneav: if i find errors, how do i submit changes
<sbalneav> Well, you'd either have to email one of us, or ask HedgeMage to set you up an account on the svn archive.
<BonBonTheJon> sbalneav: who should I email
<sbalneav> HedgeMage
<BonBonTheJon> ok, whats the address
<sbalneav> Don't know.  She's on LP, so you could hunt for it there.
<nixternal> sbalneav: it is at 36 now ;)
<sbalneav> So it is.
<ogra> cbx33: hmm, you didnt file the bug about the failed logins on first attempt yet
<pygi> BonBonTheJon: how may I help you?
<ogra> cbx33: could you do so, so i can mark it critical enough to be fixed before release ?
<BonBonTheJon> pygi: what should I do about errors I find
<ogra> (with the error from .xsession-errors if possible)
<pygi> BonBonTheJon: submit a diff to me for example :P
<BonBonTheJon> pygi: and I could write a rough draft for the networking overview
<BonBonTheJon> pygi: how do i do that
<pygi> BonBonTheJon: just write it in pure text, and mail it to me
<BonBonTheJon> pygi: address
<pygi> mario dot danic at gmail dot com
<pips1> ogra: it looks as if there is a new bug.. my second NIC did get configured during install..
<pips1> *didn't
<BonBonTheJon> pygi: and how do I do a diff
<ogra> pips1: hmm
<pygi> BonBonTheJon: uh, just send me what needs changing :)
<BonBonTheJon> pygi: ok
<ogra> all my install testes were fine so far here, what kind of NIC ?
<pips1> it's an old 3com NIC, it worked fine with the daily build 5 days ago...
<ogra> well, nothing changed in the code
<ogra> not the last days 
<pips1> how strange.
<pips1> (oh, rather, the NIC is a netgear FA311.)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> should work as well
<ogra> but the other NIC is configured fine ?
<pips1> my first hunch was also that there's a problem with the hardware, cabling... or stm
<pips1> h
<pips1> hmm
<ogra> that doesnt matter
<ogra> the code only checks /proc/net/dev
<ogra> where every interface the kernel sees should be listed
<pips1> yes, the first interface is fine. I can surf the web ok
<ogra> and its really not configured or is it only not started ?
<ogra> (is there any trace of it in /etc/network/interfaces ?)
* pips1 checks
<pips1> no mention of eth0 there at all
<LaserJock> wahoo! I got Edubuntu on my intel iMac
<ogra> did you have both for selection at the start of the install ?
<pips1> I chose eth1 as the primary interface during install
<pips1> yes
<ogra> hmm
<pips1> the nic also shows up on lspci ok
<ogra> are you sure you did a default install ? 
<pips1> yes
<ogra> not a workstation or something ?
<pips1> I even redid the install a second time
<ogra> which arch ?
<pips1> amd64
<ogra> hmm, i just tested amd64 before 
<ogra> worked fine, i even tried out an i386 chroot with teh default ltsp setup that was installed
<pips1> I asked highvoltage to try to verify this when he tests later..
<ogra> but i test with an orinoco wlan card and a realtek gigE card ... 
<pips1> I'm using the onboard nForce3 gigabit nic and the said netgear FA311 pci NIC
<ogra> and the nforce works ?
<pips1> but as mentioned before, it worked like a charm with the daily build from a few days ago..
<ogra> the only thinng i can imagine here is the kernel has changed
<pips1> right
<ogra> could you try flipping teh interfaces and see if the 3com works at all ?
<pips1> worth a try
<pips1> erm, how do I flip the interfaces?
<stelis> BonBonTheJon: Were you talking about the "Networks and Networking" section?
<ogra> edit /etc/network/interfaces :)
<ogra> change eth1 to eth0 
<stelis> I've just started to write to it :)
<pips1> heh
<ogra> oh, and befgore ifdown eth1
<ogra> else you cant bring it down if it doesnt exist in the file 
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: yeah, "Basic Concepts: Networks and Networking"
<stelis> OK. Can you read DocBook at all?
<stelis> I can post the snippet I've got so far on a server
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: what do you mean? I am viewing the handbook in yelp
<stelis> See if you want to develop it
<stelis> Sorry - DocBook is the file format
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: it doesn't matter, I was just offering, trying to fill in some holes
<pips1> ogra: after changing eth1 to eth0, I tried ifup eth0 and I got "Ignoring unknown interface eth0=eth0""
<ogra> aha
<stelis> BonBonTheJon: Not at all - please do
<stelis> Hold on and I'll post something readable
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: I haven't tried Edubuntu yet, but I know some stuff about networks
<stelis> Cool.
<stelis> I've only being running Edubuntu for 4 days, so I'm not an expert by any stretch
<pips1> so what next?
* pips1 searches malone for nforce3 in the mean time
<BonBonTheJon> stelis just pastebin it
<BonBonTheJon> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<stelis> ubotu: Thanks - I didn't no about that
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about Thanks - I didn't no about that - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<stelis> or know about it
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: lol, ubotu is a bot
<nixternal> holy cow today is a busy day
<stelis> :)
<nixternal> im studying for midterms, and doing every bit of documentation for like 4 or 5 projects
<nixternal> and then i have to get release notes ready for teh RC release tomorrow
<BonBonTheJon> nixternal: where do you go to schooll
<nixternal> and I have to take midterms...hahaha
<pygi> nixternal: my exams in two days :)
<nixternal> i have had exams all week so far
<nixternal> im in chicago BonBonTheJon
<cbx33> ogra I did file it
<cbx33> I'm sure I did
<cbx33> also how am I supposed to make a 16 colour file when, the palette is 256?
<BonBonTheJon> where do you go pygi
<BonBonTheJon> I go to Thomas More, a small college near Cincinnati
<cbx33> ogra, I don;t have the gstreamer line here....I'll add that omorrow when I get work
<cbx33> is that ok?
<pygi> BonBonTheJon: I'm in a beautiful little country called Croatia :)
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: whats the address of your pastebin
<BonBonTheJon> pygi: one thing I love about linux is you get to talk to people all around the world
<stelis> nixternal: I've done Release Notes before, if you need a hand
<ogra> cbx33: i added the bug ...
<stelis> BonBon: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27259/
<pips1> ogra: what about my nic prob?
<stelis> DocBook is XML
<cbx33> oh ok
<ogra> cbx33: put your line to if you have it 66808 
<cbx33> sorry dude
<stelis> Which is why this lookms like HTML
<cbx33> i will have it tomrorow
<ogra> *to 66808
<ogra> gaim is weird for irc
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: is there a DocBook editor
<cbx33> ok ogra I've added that
<cbx33> will get that done first hing tomorrow
<ogra> pips1: do you know from teh top of your head what module usually is used for the netgear ?
<cbx33> now about his image
<stelis> BonBon: gedit sorts of understands it
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: how about Kate
<stelis> Hardcore folks uses Emacs
<pips1> ogra: no
<stelis> BonBon: Probably even better
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: I still havent figured out emacs
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: good
<cbx33> ogra, I'll also run another test tomorrow witha  fresh cd build
<cbx33> ogra, what do I do about the usplash image
<nixternal> well, these are the Kubuntu release notes, which thank god, haven't changed to much since beta
<cbx33> they cannot both share a 256 colour palette
<ogra> make one with black background and only the logo as is 
<ogra> and index that to 16 cols
<nixternal> which reminds me, anyone check out the latest KDE Edu updates, and the cool new Oxygen icons ;)
* nixternal hids
<stelis> BonBon: Emacs has a steep learning curve 
<cbx33> ok
<nixternal> a very steep learning curve
<cbx33> i thought you said that the palettes all had to 
<cbx33> match
<BonBonTheJon> I'll just use Kate
<ogra> i dont think they have to ... ask Seveas
<stelis> It'll be an operating system once it's finished :)
<BonBonTheJon> but I need to go
<BonBonTheJon> talk to you all later
<ogra> he knows such stuff :)
<nixternal> LaserJock got me hooked on Emacs and this diary/wiki/addressbook/do it all note taker a couple of months back...and it seems I forgot all about it and how to use Emacs at the same time
<LaserJock> hmm, me too :-)
<Seveas> what do I know?
<cbx33> ok ogra doing it now
<cbx33> the 16 colour usplash fallback image
<stelis> BonBon: I'll update the pastebin before I finish, so that you've got the latest
<cbx33> it can't have the same pallete as the 256 colour ones
<Seveas> cbx33, correct
<cbx33> ok
<Seveas> it needs a 16-color palette
<cbx33> only curious
<Seveas> cbx33, and for the sake of yourown sanity: son't use a .png progressbar on the 16-color theme
<cbx33> what should I use?
<cbx33> I'm just gonna supply ogra with the base image?
<Seveas> just specify 2 colors in the theme to draw a simple progress bar
<Seveas> ogra, btw: I finally received the usplash artwork in usable form 
<cbx33> ogra, 16 colour doesn't look bad as it is
<cbx33> are you sure want the black background?
<Seveas> if you need something done for the edubuntu splash, let me know and I'll do it first thing tomorrow
<cbx33> I'll send you both
<ogra> cbx33: i dont think it scaloes nicely
<ogra> *scales
<cbx33> oh....well I'll send you both...you pick
<ogra> the 640x400@16 one will be shown on all amd64's 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ogra they're on their way
* pips1 googles around for netgear F311 linux 2.6 kernel module and can't make heads or tails of it
<cbx33> ogra, they are flying to you now
<cbx33> got them?
<cbx33> going afk
<cbx33> bbl
<cbx33> ping me if it's not right
* pips1 gives up on trying to answer ogra's question regarding the FA311's module
<pygi> BonBonTheJon: in subject, write BIG FAT : "Edubuntu Handbook"
<pips1> I had a look to see if anyone else has filed a bug related to NICs... nothing. Only bug 31914 might be even remotely in the area of the problem, but not really. I'm out of my depth.
<pips1> I'm off for today, cu tomorrow
<sbalneav> ogra: From the posts on edubuntu-users, looks like LDAP's gonna be a biiiiig priority in MV.
<ogra> sbalneav: i hope so :)
<ogra> thats one of my targets 
<lucasvo> yeah, cool!
<sbalneav> Who else would be a driver on that one?
<sbalneav> Tollef?
<lucasvo> I managed to install phpldapadmin, setup pam ldap, but it somehow doesn't really work yet
<ogra> whiprish states it explicitly on the UDS wikipage
<lucasvo> I'd be glad if ubuntu could help out
<ogra> *whiprush
<sbalneav> Whuprish
<ogra> tollef will be the most knowledgeable for it i guess
<ogra> but we have the best people there for the task 
<ogra> thom may is coming, he's a great server guy
<ogra> moquist is a great ldap guy ...
<ogra> i'd say we have the creme de la creme :) how can we miss :)
<sbalneav> My thoughts exactly.
<sbalneav> It's a slamdunk
<stelis> ogra: Could you post a link for that UDS page? I was actually thinking about writing a spec for LDAP support...
<stelis> But it sounds like people are well ahead already
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView
<stelis> ogra: Thanks.
<ogra> we'll need two specs, a general one for an ldap/kerberos setup for ubuntu and a more specific one for a proper preconfiguration for edubuntu setups ...
<Burgwork> ogra: I am going to be writing an LDAP spec
<ogra> one for a network authentication client setup is already done since several releases, but was never implemented properly
<ogra> Burgwork: funny, me too :)
<Burgwork> given I just went through serious pain at work setting it up
<ogra> we'll drown in ldap specs i guess :)
<ogra> there are so many people intrested in it this time
<Burgwork> as long as we only write one
<Burgwork> whiprush and wasabi are expecting me to write the specs
<ogra> we'll need two as i said above
* LaserJock just thinks about more group driven stuff
<ogra> a general one and one for the specisfic setup changes ... 
<ogra> at least from an edubuntu POV
<Burgwork> stelis: can you create the framework and then I can edit as needed
<Burgwork> stelis: for the general LDAP one
* ogra goes for some relaxing before he starts teh next testing runs
<Burgwork> there is a bunch of work that Novell is doing as well
<Burgwork> in GNOME
<cbx33> ogra, 
<cbx33> damn missed him again
<pygi> cbx33: !!!
<cbx33> hey pygi 
<cbx33> I said hi earlier....you must have missed it
<pygi> hey once again cbx33 :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> going afk again
<cbx33> bbl
<pygi> lol
<pygi> wait :P
<sbalneav> Heading home for the day.  Be on later.
<stelis> Burgwork: Sorry for the delay in replying - I left my desk for a bit.
<stelis> If it's useful I'll try to draft something. How do I let you know when?
<Burgwork> stelis: ping me
<stelis> OK.
<stelis> It may be a couple of days.
<pygi> jono: hey
<jono> hey
<LaserJock> hey jono
<jono> hey LaserJock 
<LaserJock> wow, there sure are a lot of governance and community specs for UDSMV
<pygi> LaserJock: I'm still not sure mine specs will ever be accepted since I dont go to UDS :(
<pygi> and they are all kinda important
<LaserJock> well then I'm sure they'll be there :-)
<pygi> dunno really :) I was supposed to explain how libburn & stuff works
<pygi> LaserJock: basicly we lost a lot of specs :(
<LaserJock> why?
<pygi> well, 'cause they won't be discussed
<pygi> and some of them are not really trivial
<LaserJock> why are we losing specs though
<LaserJock> we discuss what we can
<LaserJock> and do the rest when we can :-)
#edubuntu 2006-10-19
<Burgwork> stelis: oh, I was looking for right now. I am going to be working on them tonight, I hope
<pygi> LaserJock: 'cause we won't be able to discuss them at person in UDS? :P
<LaserJock> pygi: that's ok, we can still do them :-)
<LaserJock> there were a lot of edgy specs that didn't get discussed at Paris
<pygi> LaserJock: highly unlikely, but possible, yes
<cbx33> I'm sure we'll get all that we need done
<pygi> lucky you cbx33 :)
<cbx33> eh?
<cbx33> I mean everybody "we" as in the comminuty
<pygi> for being so optimistic ;P
<pygi> I know, I understand :P
<LaserJock> we do what we can, same as always
<cbx33> pygi, it's be fine
<cbx33> trust me
<cbx33> ogra and LaserJock  and pips1 will be there for us
<cbx33> they'll get everything done that's needed
<LaserJock> heh
<pygi> cbx33: you don't get the point :P
<pygi> But nevermind
<LaserJock> pygi: what is your point? specs are specs
<cbx33> sorry for being thick - just the way I am I guess
<cbx33> naieve
<LaserJock> we get done what we can
<pygi> LaserJock: yes, but some require extensive discussion
<cbx33> true, but if people cannot be there, and other people want to discuss there are two options....
<LaserJock> sure, and that can be done outside of just the UDS
<cbx33> discuss outside of MV or the spec cannot be discussed well enough
<cbx33> and doesn't get in....
<cbx33> unfortunately sometimes the latter will happen
<cbx33> hopefully the former will happen
<pygi> ah, anyway, gotta try to sleep altought I can't
<pygi> uni in the morning again
<^Ghost2U> something happened to my dapper ltsp... client cannot locate dhcp server anymore
<Burgwork> ^Ghost2U: try restarting your dhcp server
<Burgwork> try connecting a fat client, set a static ip and then ping the server
<Burgwork> check all the cables
<^Ghost2U> config: 2pcs .. 1) dapper install, 2) 2x diskless pc
<^Ghost2U> Bugwork, I had this thing working b4 I left 4 work.... 
<^Ghost2U> :(
<^Ghost2U> i had some changes due to my ip addresses, but i had those fixed
<^Ghost2U> when i got back.. client searching for dhcp again
<Burgwork> fun
* ^Ghost2U is getting the updates from repository
<^Ghost2U> yep
<^Ghost2U> like an ice-pick in yer ear
<^Ghost2U> :P
<^Ghost2U> I dont get it
<Burgwork> I am having fun with dns
<^Ghost2U> good luck
<Burgwork> whiprush: massive paste of balk talk
<Magnum_opus> I found a small writing error in the documentation Cookbook
<ajmitch> Burgwork: paste for me too
<Magnum_opus> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters
<Magnum_opus> down at the second line from the bottom it says "Contribute to Ubuntu"  -  instead of Edubuntu
* ^Ghost2U weeps watching the slow as frozen snot downloads from edubuntu
<^Ghost2U> 15KB on a 512Kb connection :(
<nixternal> boo
<nixternal> who is up this late doing lp admin stuff ;)
<RichEd> hi all
<RichEd> Where can I find a simple list that I can pass on to a user, which lists applications installed by default, applications in main, universe and multiverse ... with an application name and description (and the differences (if any) between Edubuntu and Ubuntu and Kubuntu (and Xubuntu)).
* RichEd thought he would start off the day with simple easy requests ;)
<RichEd> hi pete
<cbx33> hey Rich
<juliux> ogra, http://www.linuxworldexpo.de/adetail.php?ID=123&Aussteller_ID=1194 ;)
<ogra> juliux, cool !
<cbx33> hey ogra were those images ok?
<juliux> ogra, we have two demopoints at the linuxworldexpo one for edubuntu and one for ubuntu
<ogra> cbx33, dunno, i'm busy with CD tests :)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> np
<ogra> cbx33, the images are post RC stuff, its just ugly currently but does no harm, i wont do a complete test run for a single usplash image
<ogra> (building a new iso means new testing)
<cbx33> yeh ok dude
<RichEd> Can we start with: Where can I find a list of what applications will be on my menu the moment I finish my Edubuntu install ?
<cbx33> RichEd: there were lots of lists put up on the wiki
<cbx33> but I fear they are all out of date now
<cbx33> ogra: is there a way to pull out which packages are applications and which are libraries
<ogra> i think so, but dont ask me for one :)
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> RichEd, the *buntu-desktop package depends on all installed desktop apps
<cbx33> grr.... add/remove applications doesn't use the proxy :(
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/SeedManagement has some examples of seed files through which we define whats in main or in one of the metapackages (i.e. -desktop)
<RichEd> I've jsut got this from #ubuntu: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components
<RichEd> *just ...
<RichEd> That's a good conceptual start to explain to a user.
<stgraber> apt-cache show edubuntu-desktop | grep Depends | sed "s/, /\n/g" | grep -v "lib"
<stgraber> should give all the non-lib package that are in edubuntu-desktop depends
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<RichEd> ogra: RichEd, the *buntu-desktop package depends on all installed desktop apps <- not sure what you mean by this in the context of my question ... let me rephrase it now:
<ogra> heh, there should be no library dependencies in -desktop :)
<RichEd> I'd like to be able to make a simple bullet list of: "When you have finished your Edyubuntu install and eject the CD, you will immediately have the following applications on your desktop menu ready for your kdis to use".
<RichEd> *Edubuntu *kids
<ogra> RichEd, exactly ... and on a tech level the edubuntu-desktop package defines whats installed on your desktop
<ogra> it always depends on all graphical apps you can access through the menu ...
<ogra> so if you look at its package dependencies, you have the list you want :)
<cbx33> RichEd: wnat me to get you that list?
<ogra> cbx33, bote that since edgy also the recommends count ...
<ogra> *note
<cbx33> argh! right ok
<RichEd> cbx33: give a man a fish ... teach a man to fish ... explain how to get the list, and I will be able to do it next time myself please.
<cbx33> I'll go get the list
<cbx33> np...
<cbx33> ogra: there doesn;t seem to be a recommends for it?
<RichEd> thanks for the advice ogra :) feeling and acting like a naieve end-user today
<cbx33> RichEd: to get the list I open up a terminal
* RichEd opens up a terminal
<cbx33> apt-cache show edubuntu-desktop
<cbx33> ogra: only problem is these are pacakge names
<ogra>  apt-cache depends edubuntu-desktop
<ogra> ;)
<cbx33> ahh
<ogra> cbx33, right ... 
<cbx33> hmmm...
<ogra> someone needs to translate the package names into apps i guess
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> unless...
<RichEd> and other problem is that the list includes other apps I have chosen to install from Add/Remove or Synaptic
<cbx33> argh we should have a field for application name
<cbx33> RichEd: no it shouldn't
<cbx33> it should just be the dependencies of the edubuntu-desktop pacakge
<RichEd> okay  ... I stand corrected and better informed
<cbx33> ogra: were those images meant to be 640x480 or 640x400?
<ogra> 640x400
<cbx33> *gah*
<ogra> scaled down 
<cbx33> I'll redo them tonight
<cbx33> mine are 640x480
<ogra> it must be edited and designed in 640x480
<cbx33> oh right
<cbx33> i see
<cbx33> and just wrongly scaled to 400
<ogra> and then be scaled to 640x400
<cbx33> np
<cbx33> ogra: just out of curiosity, why do the version numbers of the edubuntu-desktop packages change so drastically?
<ogra> they change with every upload
<cbx33> ahhh
<pips1> hi all
<pips1> highvoltage: how's testing going?
<highvoltage> pips1: busy installing one right now. It's not on a real machine, it's in a vmware session, but it has two network cards at least
<pips1> oki
<cbx33> ogra: I wrote a litte python prog that does it
<cbx33> pulls out every short description from apt-cache show for each pacakge listed in aptcache depends edubutnu-desktop
<ogra> heh great
<cbx33> I'll post it up somewhere later;)
<cbx33> ogra: do you always want test with the latest iso?
<cbx33> I'm guessing so
<ogra> with the one mentioned on the wiki
<pips1> i looks as if there hasn't been a new iso since yesterday (?)
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current
<ogra> no, there hasnt
<cbx33> ooh goody
<cbx33> I still have 17.1
<pips1> well, that's a slight problem with rsyncing, you never quite know what "version" you have, unless you burn it ...
<happyed_> Hi Ogra! Back at work again... As I said yesterday I'm just upgrading a Edubuntu 6.06 incl. Ltsp to 6.10. I just replaced all dapper occurences in sources.list with edgy and made a dist-upgrade. It'll still take some 90mins or so... I'll keep you informed
<cbx33> I don;t rsync
<cbx33> a) can'tport blocked
<pips1> of course, if you rsync and no data is transferred, you know that there wasn't a new version
<cbx33> b) prefer downlaoding full iso
<pips1> happyed_: great!
<happyed_> Couldn't find that manual to do the upgrade with upgrade-manager. Is there a big difference if I just use dist-upgrade?
<pips1> I don't think so, but I'm not sure. I don't know for sure what upgrade-manager does
<cbx33> happyed_: 
<cbx33> whoops
<cbx33> how did you run it?
<cbx33> update-manager -d -c 
<cbx33> ogra: I don;t suppose you can spare time to chat scp spec can you?
<ogra> not now
<ogra> after the RC 
<cbx33> will that be before sunday
<cbx33> ogra: does the option to resize a partiion only present itself if there is sufficient space
<ogra> either that or if it even *can'* resize something ...
<cbx33> ok....
<ogra> i.e. there needs to be a resizable partition
<cbx33> ext3 is resizeablt
<cbx33> ogra: just a query why don't we test LVM installs seperate to the normal install?
<ogra> dunno, ask sfllaw, he makes the testplans
<pips1> ogra: how are talks scheduled at UDS? are they schedule by "management" only (sabdfl, mhz, ..), based on the specs? or are there other non-specced things that can get scheduled too? 
<pips1> s/talks/working groups/
<ogra> there is a script in LP doing it
<pips1> ohhh
<ogra> based on proirity and status of a spec
<cbx33> ogra do we just edit the student control spec that is there
<cbx33> or create a new one
<pips1> so if it's not specced and approved, no slots will be available for talks on other subjects?
<pips1> RichEd: ping
<RichEd> pong pips1 
<pips1> hi RichEd
<pips1> see ^^
<pips1> I am wondering about MV...
<RichEd> pips1: there are general meetings and smaller sessions being planned ... they are called BOF birds of a feather ... Jono is setting up his for community in LP and I will check where we fit in there. We can craete some of our own if we need to, but I have already been lobbying with Matt Nuzum for web discussions with him and Jono.
<pips1> we need to schedule some talks, at least those that you mentioned in my application... it looks like the base scheduling of talks is done in an automated fashion, based on the specs that are in launchpad (those that are approved).
<pips1> right
<RichEd> So, by say Monday, we look to see what is missing from our needs, and we will create and invite our own sessions. You and I can spend some time chatting to Jono in IRC about this. Mostly, I expect we will be in the other meetings (like Jono and community) and we bring up our education Niche requirements or comments as part of those.
<RichEd> So just to be clear, that's for Philipp & Richard for Web Sites and Community ^^^
<RichEd> We'll then need to work with ogra for the edubuntu feature requirements, but I expect Oliver will drive that as he knows how it all works, and we'll be there to support him.
<ogra> pips1, right, only things with entries in LP will be scheduled by the scheduler
<cbx33> does the scheduler actually schedule meeting times?
<cbx33> to make sure people can attend them?
<RichEd> pips1: a lot of what you and I will discuss will be in smaller sessions, some sidebars, some over lunch & evening meals etc. were we grab the people we want and share a table.
<ogra> yes, but you might end up in several BOfs and need to set priorities
<pips1> RichEd: ok, it's a plan
<pips1> RichEd: on the application, you put four discussion blocks/topics. I think they are all valid.
<ogra> you will be scheduled for all discussions where you subscribed for on the spec manager ...
<pips1> ogra: good to know
<pips1> so RichEd: jono will have a 'Community' spec, and we simply subscribe to it, ok.
<pips1> ogra: will have several specific "Edubuntu" specs and attend some "ubuntu" specs which are relevant to Edubuntu...
<ogra> right
<pips1> RichEd: the 'Web sites' discussion is only a small group, so we can probably handle that next to the "big official" schedule
<pips1> RichEd: same for the 'Education sector' discussions, that is a small group and can be dealt with informally...
<RichEd> agreed on all pips1
<highvoltage> urgh. vmware doesn't want to work on edgy today :/
<cbx33> highvoltage: how so?
<cbx33> works ok here?
<highvoltage> cbx33: message I get is: /usr/lib/vmware/bin/vmware: /usr/lib/vmware/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2)
<cbx33> yikes
<cbx33> you fully updated?
<cbx33> that looks like an edgy problem :S
<cbx33> argh
<cbx33> try reinstalling 
<cbx33> always fixes problems I get
<highvoltage> nope, updated to a 17 October edubuntu daily build. I'll have to dist-upgrade this afternoon again
<highvoltage> our bandwidth bill is going to look shocking this month :)
<lucasvo> cbx33: you know apple remote desktop?
<lucasvo> just read through the scp spec
<lucasvo> they have I nice feature: it has a list of clients which shows the IP, the logged in user and the programm which is in focus
<lucasvo> that would be nice
<lucasvo> that allows the teacher to see if everyone is using for example openoffice and not epiphany whithout having to start vnc
<cbx33> lucasvo: well scp does most of that
<cbx33> you can see which apps are running
<cbx33> but not which is in focus unfortunately
<highvoltage> that would be quite nice. i wonder how you'd implement something like that...
<cbx33> funny yo ushould say that
<cbx33> :p
* highvoltage shuts up
* cbx33 is looking into applets right now
<cbx33> I thought there maybe some decent additions we could make to scp with applets...
<highvoltage> cool :)
<cbx33> and possibly for other stuff
<cbx33> like an answer bar...
<cbx33> kids are given a question....
<lucasvo> is there a blackout function?
<cbx33> then then drag and drop the answer onto the "Answer bar"
<lucasvo> that would be nice
<cbx33> lucasvo: it is planned
<lucasvo> but not in spec?
<cbx33> lucasvo: could you do me a favour...seeing as it looks like I'll be planning the spec for scp, can you mail me your ideas?
<lucasvo> it would be quite easy, just create an app that makes a blackout and then send it to all clients
<cbx33> then I can discuss them with ogra
<lucasvo> cbx33: I can also add them to the spec
<cbx33> hmm...well the spec was for scp completiong, and all bar one item it is complete
<cbx33> so I'll probaly start a spec from scratch
<lucasvo> oh, ok
<lucasvo> hi ogra 
<cbx33> ogra: I'm proposing a new spec for SCP...as opposed to editing the last one
<cbx33> is that ok with you?
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> as the last was for a completion
<cbx33> will you have any time to chat about SCP before sunday?
<lucasvo> cbx33: when will you create the spec?
<cbx33> well....it has to be done before sunday....but I wanted to have a word with ogra about it before I finish it
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<pips1> hey
<jsgotangco> for what its worth, i386 is pretty good now
* pips1 wonders if he is the only person where the second NIC failed to be configured
<ogra> pips1, seems like
<ogra> i'd blame the specific NIC or the kernel ... talk to BenC 
<ogra> you could try an install with the NICs in different order and see if it works then
<pips1> I can't be the nic since that worked before. so it seems to be the kernel.. hmm
<ogra> just select the netgear as primary 
<pips1> ok, I'll try that first, before to talking to BenC
<pips1> ogra: when do you expect another build?
<ogra> i dont
<pips1> ic
<jsgotangco> we haven't had a new build for 2 days
<cbx33> that's good
<jsgotangco> its actually pretty good now
<ogra> yep
<ogra> looks like that will be our release candidate
<cbx33> did the login bug get fixed?
<ogra>  /Testing/Current looks very good as well
<ogra> no, thats all post RC stuff
* pips1 starts another fresh server install
<ogra> mvo even tested amd64 with an amd64 thin client *g*
<jsgotangco> yeah i saw his bug
<pips1> is there a special installation variant I should go for ?
* pips1 checks the testing table
<ogra> pips1, just default ...
<ogra> oh, right
<cbx33> bbl
<pips1> I see 'freespace' and 'auto-resize' haven't been tested
* pips1 chooses the nVidia onboard nic as primary interface in a desparate attempt to find out more about the 2nd nic prob
<jsgotangco> seems to be kernel related?
<ogra> freespace has test results
<ogra> 'auto-resize' is missing
<jsgotangco> auto-resize i've done 2 hours ago
<jsgotangco> ;)
<jsgotangco> dinner brb
<ogra> jsgotangco, please note it in https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current
* pips1 plugs the internet uplink into the other switch
<pips1> ogra: erm, what is the auto-resize option?
<pips1> is that using LVM or smth?
* pips1 chooses 'resize ... and use freed space'
<pips1> jsgotangco: good work!
<pips1> ogra: I actually don't understand what is meant by 'auto-resize'... 
* jsgotangco is but a humble edubuntu servant
<pips1> pffft
<luckyed> OK, I finished the upgrade to 6.10, and everything went smoothly except four packets that are reported as being broken right now. It's libxdmcp6, xserver-xorg, xserver-xorg-core and xutils. I can start gnome w/o probs, but the update-manager keeps reporting I should fix the broken packets in synaptic (which doesn't work). I tried to purge them, then reinstall but it doesn't work. Anyone any ideas on how to solve this?
<highvoltage> pips1: pfft?
<jsgotangco> luckyed: try doing it from the console, there are updates for that
<^Ghost2U> morning all
* ^Ghost2U **yawns** and stretches
<pips1> highvoltage: pfft = exhaling air between half-closed lips. can mean anything really. :-) surprised, humoured, disbelief, ..
<luckyed> jsgotangco: I did it from the console. Even stopped gdm first, but ... no luck
<jsgotangco> luckyed: strange, i just updated mine a few minutes ago ;)
<highvoltage> pips1: ok, I thought so, I just wondered at what you were pfffting
<pips1> I was pfffting at jsgotangco slave comment
<jsgotangco> hi willvdl 
<willvdl> hey jsgot,
<willvdl> oops, comma didn't work :)
<pips1> luckyed: jsgotangco, why is it that always people with the least experience (like myself :-) run into most problems, while people who can easily fix problem, don't get problems in the first place? <-- I'm not really serious about this ;-)
<^Ghost2U> I installed dapper, fixed dhcp (non-default ip's), but i did it with 2 nics installed. I want to remove the 2nd nic, but that's the one accessing the 'net.. help?
<lucasvo> ^Ghost2U: how does it access the net? Is it directly conected to a modem or is there a NAT router?
<^Ghost2U> btw, 2nd nic is usb, already have a gateway, so this config ties up an additional port on my switch...
<luckyed> pips: It's not really a big problem because I used a test system anyway. Main purpose was to see if all works flawlessly, but now I'm thinking about doing a clean install instead of updating and running into the same probs on the productivity server :) 
<^Ghost2U> lucasvo: have a router, it's bypassing that router and going to my main router.. do not want that.
* ^Ghost2U has 1 main router and 2 'child' routers
<Jsgmob> A result from upgrade from dapper is always good
<lucasvo> ^Ghost2U: these two routers, what do they do?
<pips1> luckyed: well, I think the problems you encountered should be fixed and dist-upgrade should be an option that works. At least for a system that was a simple install without any heavy (manual re-)configuration!
<lucasvo> your ltsp server is behind the main router or is it a child router?
<^Ghost2U> lucasvo: the idea was to create a network solely for ltsp, which uses (call it router B) which in turn accesses main router (A)
<^Ghost2U> I was having probs with dapper install, and in desperation added a 2nd nic, which really wasn't the problem.. but now it is
<luckyed> pips1: Actually I'm positively surprised that 4 broken xserver packages don't cause more trouble. As I said, I still can logon to gnome and I think there's some way of repairing those broken packages, now it just depends if that's easier than a new install... :)
<^Ghost2U> because i now have this 2nd nic, my ltsp clients go thru it instead of router B for 'net access
<^Ghost2U> I want to remove the 2nd nic, thereby isolating all ltsp traffic to router B
<^Ghost2U> router B already passes info to router A for 'net access
<lucasvo> ^Ghost2U: ltsp clients dont access the internet, it's the server which does that
<lucasvo> ^Ghost2U: the server is connected to router A or B?
<^Ghost2U> thanks to the 2 nics... both
<^Ghost2U> 2nd nic on A
<^Ghost2U> 1st on B
<lucasvo> ^Ghost2U: B is running dhcp?
<lucasvo> and nat?
<^Ghost2U> nat.. no dhcp
<^Ghost2U> turned it off cause ltsp on edubuntu is running
<lucasvo> so, if you disconnect the 2 nic, internet doesn't wor anymore?
<^Ghost2U> correct
<^Ghost2U> but it only affects router B's network
<lucasvo> you have to add a default gateway on the ltsp server for the internet
<lucasvo> however I am not sure about it.
<lucasvo> You can try: sudo route add default gw _IP of Router A_
<pips1> ogra: I re-installed and chose nforce nic as primary interface. Internet access from server is working. However, the second nic *still* isn't configured for ltsp at all, even though the nic appears in lspci ?!
<^Ghost2U> hmmm
<pips1> thus, the problem can't lie with the nic not being supported by the kernel.. it really looks like some wierd new installer bug.. ?
* pips1 considers to install the daily build from 5 days ago, to reassure it all works just fine there..
<highvoltage> any licensing guru's in the channel?
<pips1> heh
<pips1> not me
<RichEd> hi willvdl  ... can you drive the handbook processes ad per the email this morning ? get it documented on one of your wiki pages ...
<RichEd> *as per
<jsgotangco> nice email btw
<RichEd> thanks ...
<RichEd> willvdl: I think nixternal and hedgemage are the brains to pick and document ... then we can fill in the gaps.
<willvdl> RichEd. Will do. Catching up on email now
<RichEd> thanks ... i need to make sure this one has a home and wil run on its own with you on the rudder ... or else it will fall off the back of the truck
* RichEd mixes metaphors and spelling freely
* willvdl noticed
<willvdl> Yeah, I'm very keen to get into the doc side
<willvdl> It compliments the other stuff I do
<pips1> \o/
<willvdl> highvoltage, just ran into Hilton and Bernie in JHB
<highvoltage> willvdl: oh cool, I just had a conference call with him :)
<willvdl> he looked tired
<highvoltage> he sounded tired.
<willvdl> then I conclude he must be tired
<highvoltage> good call.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: you still work with hilton right?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep
<willvdl> gotto go home quick brb
<rodarvus> ogra, what kind of testing you'd like me to do on Edubuntu Live CD?
<ogra> only the standard ... install it, open some apps and test them ... 
<ogra> create a document open a webpage etc
<rodarvus> no ltsp stuff, right?
<ogra> yep
<rodarvus> (I never used the live cd for edubuntu, to be sincere, so I don't know what it is capable of)
<cbx33> rodarvus: we don;t have ltsp on live
<cbx33> do we?
<ogra> not yet
<cbx33> we're going to?
<ogra> in feisty probably
<rodarvus> thats what I thought :)
<cbx33> you said we'd never have it
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> feisty?
<cbx33> is that the new name?
<rodarvus> yeah!
<ogra> not as long as nfs and unionfs dont like each other
<highvoltage> cbx33: don't you read planet anymore!?
* cbx33 goes to planet
<ogra> cbx33, you should read ubuntu-devel-announce ;)
<cbx33> I've been outta touch the last few days
<cbx33> I'm the only one here
<ogra> it has all the intresting bits
<cbx33> my colleague is out on a course...
<cbx33> SUX - he is allowed on a 3day union course
<highvoltage> cbx33: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/60
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> we're all feisty now eh?
<highvoltage> very :)
<cbx33> indeed
<jsgotangco> heh hopefully, sabdfl will have some time on this trip here for a beer
<cbx33> brb
<^Ghost2U> lucasvo: i got it!
<^Ghost2U> lucasvo: it was so simple, I could kick myself... simply by deactivating eth1 dapper sets the gateway to eth0 and the rest falls into place
<^Ghost2U> lucasvo: now my ltsp network is running properly, and the thin clients have no probs connecting (sweet!) :D
<sbalneav> Morning all
<^Ghost2U> morning
<highvoltage> morning mr balneav
<highvoltage> s
* ^Ghost2U does a happy dance (it works, it works) !
* highvoltage goes home, bbl
<sbalneav> Mr?!?!
<sbalneav> Dude, no one ever calls me Mr. :)
<sbalneav> Scott, or Scotty, or "Hey, you, fatso!" all work.
<sbalneav> (The last one's what my wife calls me :) )
<ogra> lol
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey!  Looks like you and I will be bunkies!
<ogra> where, when ? 
<sbalneav> At BTS, before the conf.
<ogra> ah :)
<ogra> cool
<bddebian> Howdy
<sbalneav> Hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello sbalneav
<sbalneav> ogra: You don't like to steal San Franscisco street signs at 3:00 AM, do you?  Or listen to Roy Orbison?
<sbalneav> There's a story to this.  I don't think you've ever heard it.
<ogra> heh, no, i didnt
<sbalneav> I'll tell you in SF.  You'll get a laugh.
* highvoltage wonders who jimdog is going to bunk up with then
<sbalneav> For BTS, His Buddy Jim Glutting will show up for a bit.  At the UDS, It'll be me.
<sbalneav> ogra: Did you happen to get a chance to look at the handbook?
<ogra> not yet ... i'm testing like mad
<sbalneav> OK, sorry, no rush.
<ogra> can i do it tomorrow ? 
<ogra> or do you need input today ?
<sbalneav> Dude, you do it when *YOU* get the time.  I don't think it's going to be released before go-live anyway.
<sbalneav> But it would be nice, around the release date, if we could docbook->html some of the sections, and at least point people to it for the LTSP bits.
<sbalneav> I'm going to convert some of my localdev docs, and get them into the handbook as well.  I'll do that today.
<ogra> the biggest problem i've seen until now is that users forget adding themselves to the fuse group (even the gui has an explicit explanation about ltsp devices)
<ogra> the docs should point that out several times
<ogra> sbalneav, btw, its a really bad ide to use etx2/3 disks with ltspfs i found ...
<ogra> *idea
<sbalneav> I should add that to the handbook.
<sbalneav> ogra: Oh?  Howcome?  
* sbalneav can't think of a reason why they wouldn't work.
<ogra> well, by default they want a fschk after 30 mounts
<ogra> they work
<sbalneav> Oh
<sbalneav> ouvh
<sbalneav> ouch
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> hmm
<ogra> i think you can switch that off somehow
<sbalneav> Yeah, with tune2fs or something.
<ogra> we should document how for users who want etx2/3
<^Ghost2U> hate to interrupt, but can you point me to the localdev docs?
<sbalneav> LOL
<sbalneav> Well, we're writing them :)
<ogra> there are none yet for ubuntu :) thats whyt we're talking about
<^Ghost2U> ok,
* ^Ghost2U is very interested
<sbalneav> Here's the quick and dirty synopsis
<sbalneav> 1) Add the user you want to be able to plug devices to the fuse group.
<sbalneav> 2) Plug stuff in.
<sbalneav> 3) It pops up on the desktop.
<sbalneav> 4) PROFIT!!!
<^Ghost2U> lol
<sbalneav> Man, that meme never gets old.
<ogra> sbalneav, not for upgraded dapper-edgy boxes ... you will need to install ltspfsd in the chroot and ltspfs on the server
<sbalneav> Oooh.
<sbalneav> I'm thinking it'd probably be best to tell people to mv /opt/ltsp to /opt/ltsp.old, and ltsp-build-client again.
<stelis> Burgwork: ping.
<sbalneav> Because, they'll want all the good udev + ldm + other magic.
<^Ghost2U> well until edgy completes it's shakedown, does any of this apply to dapper
<sbalneav> No, Dapper LTSP had no localdev.
<ogra> sbalneav, thats what i usually do, but you *can* upgrade the chroot, so i need to document that 
<ogra> upgrade testing is on my https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current plan anyway
<sbalneav> ogra: http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Edgy/HOWTO:_PulseAudio
<ogra> yep, got it in my bookmarks already
<sbalneav> Someone did all the heavy lifting for us!
<ogra> i'll point to it if i write the pulse spec for MV
<ogra> that was MrMoo
<ogra> (from #ltsp)
<sbalneav> Ah, cool.
* pips1 stares at his ifconfig output in disbelief.
* pips1 has just installed the 12-oct daily and the second nic isn't configured.
<pips1> What the...
<pips1> I had it all working?!
<pips1> argh
<stelis> whiprush: ping
<pips1> I'm glad the cd is working for you all, and thus, I must conclude that I'm surely doing something silly... 
<pips1> I'm sure I'll suddenly discover that..
<ogra> pips1, not you, but your HW
<pips1> well.. I had it all working at some point, so I don't get it.
<ogra> send me /var/log/installer/syslog ...
<pips1> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<pips1> ah
<ogra> no
<ogra> by mail
<pips1> no? ok
<ogra> its to big for pastebin
<pips1> which syslog do you want? the daily-12-oct or the lasted-daily-install one?
* pips1 assumes the latest one
<ogra> one where your NIC didnt work
<pips1> well, it doesn't work on any of these installs
<ogra> so any will do :)
<pips1> doh, yep
<pips1> ogra: syslog sent
<cbx33> so tomorrow at 8pm yeh?
<cbx33> whoops
<pips1> cbx33: hmm?
<cbx33> ogra, I'm gonna create the spec to work on now
<cbx33> what do yo uwant me to name it?
<cbx33> any preference?
<cbx33> so anyone with any thoughts about SCP please mail me, and I'll try to include as much as I can
<highvoltage> cbx33: is SCP included in Edgy?
<cbx33> yes
<highvoltage> i haven't gotten my vmware back yet, going to install now on real pc
<highvoltage> cbx33: rockin
<cbx33> yeh it's working well
<cbx33> just planning on the next version
<cbx33> got lots planned
<highvoltage> cbx33: from our schools that also has Windows labs, our #1 request so far has been for a tool for the teacher to control the remote desktops
<cbx33> so vnc controlling the desktop
<cbx33> that's planned for feisth
<highvoltage> cbx33: so if this works well in the schools, you're going to make lots of people here in .za ver, very happy
<cbx33> feisty
<Burgwork> cbx33: vnc via telepathy would rock
<cbx33> ooh....I have heard of telephay but don;t know really what it is
<cbx33> Burgwork, care to shed some light
<Burgwork> telepathy is to communication as gstreamer is to media
<Burgwork> a framework for doing cool things on, without having to worry about the messy implementation details
<Burgwork> part of what I want to work on in the fiesty timeframe is a remote assistance thing via telepathy
<cbx33> Burgwork, sounds cool
<cbx33> could be part of SCP
<cbx33> Burgwork, written in what language?
<cbx33> or does it have many bindings?
<Burgwork> telepathy is written in C I think
<Burgwork> but has python, etc. bindings
<cbx33> what would you write in?
<cbx33> ooh 
* cbx33 is liking already
<cbx33> python is my language of love ;)
<Burgwork> I wouldnm
<Burgwork> I wouldn't code this, I would have other people do it for me
<cbx33> ahhh
* cbx33 pokes Burgwork at the top of the pile
<Burgwork> anyway, vino can probably be taken and used
<Burgwork> I need to find a vnc expert
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> well ogra is goign to hack up x11vnc for SCP
<cbx33> what would be different about vnc over telephay
<cbx33> :S
<pips1> what does the ubuntu dvd contain?
<Burgwork> pips1: all of main
<willreed03> so i have a soundblaster live 5.1 card and creative 5.1 speaker system...when i first installed ubuntu i could only get 2.1 sound...im using the ALSA guimixer and amarok to play mp3's...i can turn up the surround controls and get sound out of all my speakers but then when i use my multimedia keyboard to turn down the sound or mute it only mutes the 2.1 speakers...and i am absolutely lost as how to get it fixed....i have been trying lots of stuff and
<willreed03> nothing seems to work...help anyone????
<BonBonTheJon> willreed03: maybe ask on #ubuntu
<willvdl> there are some sound specific channels too. #alsa I think
<willreed03> alright
<willreed03> thanks
<BonBonTheJon> any one know how to view DocBook in KDE
<cbx33> !seen mhz
<ubotu> I haven't seen mhz recently
<LaserJock> anybody seen this? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=280193
<cbx33> LaserJock, wow
<cbx33> that is cool
<highvoltage> OMG
<LaserJock> !seen RichEd 
<pygi> what is it highvoltage ?
<ubotu> RichEd is on IRC right now!
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that is seriously cool :)
<highvoltage> pygi: that OMG was for LaserJock's link... I have another one though...
<highvoltage> I got a link to what Skolelinux's new website will look like from their list:
<highvoltage> http://folk.uio.no/lrisan/SkoleLinux/test4.html
<pygi> I didnt saw, got off for a sec as you saw :P
<highvoltage> look familiar? :)
* highvoltage thinks that's quite a compliment to us
<LaserJock> maybe somebody should post a reply on the forum?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I wouldn't mind?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: we can feature it as a news item on the edubuntu website too :)
<LaserJock> go for it
<highvoltage> (perhaps that will cause a trend ;) )
<highvoltage> ok, I'm going to put the story up first and then reply and tell them
<cbx33> nice highvoltage 
<LaserJock> btw, thanks to _MMA_ for giving me the link :-)
<_MMA_> :) NP
<cbx33> hey _MMA_ 
<_MMA_> Hey.
<_MMA_> You were blocked for the ubuntustudio site right?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> that was pretty funny
<cbx33> _MMA_, you in UK?
<cbx33> brb
<_MMA_> Try now.
<_MMA_> Im in the states.
<_MMA_> I got the block fixed.
<highvoltage> http://edubuntu.org/news/7
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ^^^ that ok?
<LaserJock> excellent
<ogra> highvoltage, sweet
<highvoltage> and I've replied back on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1637086#post1637086 just now too
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted | edgy (6.10) release candidate: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edgy/
<_MMA_> Yes. Very nice.
<pips1> highvoltage: nice
<highvoltage> the kids somehow even manage to match the edubuntu colour scheme :)
<pips1> yeah!
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> that's funny
<pips1> ogra, I updated the Download page with the mirrors... I was wondering about the DVD download though.. will there be DVDs for edgy at some point?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: we're slowly invading their brains :-)
<ogra> pips1, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/ 
<ogra> its just not completely tested yet
<LaserJock> highvoltage: they'll grow up and start naming their kids gcompris and kalzium before you know it ;-)
<pips1> LOL
* pygi will pretend he didn't saw what LaserJock wrote
<highvoltage> LaserJock: or... Gallium, for the rebbelious ones :)
<LaserJock> another 10-15 years and Xaos will be what everybody will be naming their babies, you'll see
<cbx33> heheh
<pips1> ogra: did you ever get around checking the syslog I sent? I actually think it might be a waste of time for you... 
<pips1> I just got the RC announcement :)
<lguerra> Hi all
<pips1> hi lguerra
<pips1> did you talk to RichEd?
<pips1> need to go, cu tomorrow
<highvoltage> ogra, I'm probably wrong here, but did you say at one stage that the "Building LTSP chroot" in d-i will show real progress, instead of just jumping to 50% and then finishing? or is this a recurrence of a bug in the installer?
<highvoltage> oh, it seems like my pc has actually froze :(
<EmxBA> pygi: are you there?
<pygi> EmxBA: if you are gonna state lies again, then no
<pygi> otherwise yes, kindof ^_^
<EmxBA> not lies :)
<EmxBA> can you send me /var/lib/dpkg/lock to emx@info.ba ? don't ask me why i need it :)
<pygi> lol, why would you want a lock file?!
<highvoltage> EmxBA: you can just do a touch /var/lib/dpkg/lock if you really want a lock file :)
<EmxBA> oh 
<EmxBA> than
<EmxBA> i have it and it's blank
<highvoltage> EmxBA: I think it's usually blank
<highvoltage> EmxBA: what's the problem you're experiencing?
<EmxBA> and i updated list of packages (apt-get update) 3 weeks ago and upgraded system. today i done a apt-get update and there are no new packages :S is that usual? 
<highvoltage> that is strange
<highvoltage> that sounds more like you can possibly have the wrong sources in /etc/apt/sources.lst
<highvoltage> it's also possible that your local mirror hasn't been updated for some reason (it sometimes happens)
<EmxBA> sources are ok, at.archive.ubuntu.org, i've tried with bs and us and de, always the same problem
<EmxBA> maybe dpkg or something hacked in /var/lib/dpkg?
<pygi> at!!!
<pygi> why is it at?!
<stelis> at?
<EmxBA> at is austry :S
<pygi> well, why are you using austrian server?
<EmxBA> ok, that doesn't matter at all
<EmxBA> i have de now, pygi
<pygi> bleh! :P
<EmxBA> can you please help me with this?
<pygi> no, two exams tommorow :P
<EmxBA> :)
<pygi> and dunno what you messed up
<EmxBA> i have one too
<EmxBA> hm...go to /var/lib/dpkg/
<EmxBA> do you have folder named updates? what is in it?
<EmxBA> i have it but i contains no files in it
<pygi> so whats weird in that? :)
<EmxBA> do you have any files?
<LaserJock> I don't
<EmxBA> ok
<pygi> LaserJock: nobody does =)
<EmxBA> and file available in /var/lib/dpkg/?
<EmxBA> or status file?
<LaserJock> I have both
<LaserJock> I don't quite understand what your problem is?
<LaserJock> you did a apt-get update ?
<sbalneav> EmxBA: Can you paste the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list to the pastebbin?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<pygi> sbalneav: hey 
<EmxBA>  i updated list of packages (apt-get update) 3 weeks ago and upgraded system. today i done a apt-get update and there are no new packages :S is that usual? , LaserJock
<EmxBA> sbalneav: i know what pastebin is
<LaserJock> EmxBA: he just showed you
<EmxBA> here is it
<EmxBA> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27370/
<EmxBA> there should be some new packages, come on!
<sbalneav> k
<LaserJock> sorry, I thought you said you didn't know :-)
<LaserJock> I don't think it's a problem dude
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what you're expecting
<EmxBA> i'm expecting some updated packages LaserJock
<EmxBA> let me do it this way...
<LaserJock> so you haven't upgraded for 3 weeks?
<sbalneav> EmxBA: You've edited this one yourself?  It's not the standard one.
<sbalneav> Because you're missing the line that gives you updates.
<LaserJock> oh well it's dapper
<LaserJock> that's why
<EmxBA> yap i've edited it. the line above says "generated by ubuntu  http://www.ubuntulinux.nl/source-o-matic
<LaserJock> you *shouldn't* be getting updates
<EmxBA> LaserJock: why? 
<EmxBA> aha ...
<EmxBA> why that? :D
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Yes he should, get a few anyway.
<LaserJock> because dapper is already released
<EmxBA> and it should be updating regullary ? 
<LaserJock> with that sources.list you shouldn't get *any* updates
<sbalneav> There's the odd security update.
<pygi> sbalneav: hm, are packages in main archive really rebuilt?
<sbalneav> Right, with that one he won't.
<pygi> it should be in -updates, no?
<EmxBA> or i should put edgy instead of dapper? 
<LaserJock> arggg
<pygi> EmxBA: just use synaptic to edit sources :P
<EmxBA> can someone paste some /etc/apt/sources.list that works to pastebin?
<EmxBA> ok
<sbalneav> EmxBA: Restore your original sources.list that you backed up before you changed it, and everything will be fine.
<LaserJock> let's go through this one thing at a time
<BonBonTheJon> !easysource
<ubotu> source-o-matic is a webpage where you can (re)generate your sources.list - http://www.ubuntu-nl.org/source-o-matic
<BonBonTheJon> EmxBA: ^^^
<EmxBA> ok
<LaserJock> BonBonTheJon: that's what got him in this trouble to start with
<EmxBA> i knew that BonBonTheJon
<BonBonTheJon> hmm
<LaserJock> now, what you have is just the main Dapper repositories
<pygi> sbalneav: let's guess, he didn't backup
<LaserJock> that will never be updated
<EmxBA> what shoulld i have? edgy ? somethin third?
<LaserJock> it is what was released
<EmxBA> dapper won't be updated anymore? LaserJock?
<LaserJock> EmxBA: just hang on
<EmxBA> it got upgraded few weeks ago :P
<sbalneav> EmxBA: Yes, dapper will be updated for the next 5 years.
<LaserJock> updates to a stable release (Dapper) are handled in 2 ways
<LaserJock> security updates are handled via the dapper-security repository
<EmxBA> instead of this talk, can someone just copy me sources.list THAT WORK?
<sbalneav> Just replace this sources.list with the one before your changing it to the source-o-matic one.
<LaserJock> which you don't have
<LaserJock> other major updates are handled via the dapper-updates repository
<LaserJock> so what you are missing are 4 more lines
<EmxBA> sbalneav: i don't have it unfortunately
<LaserJock> like the top 2 deb lines
<EmxBA> LaserJock: can you copy them to pastebin please?
<LaserJock> but add in dapper-updates and dapper-security instead of just dapper, does that make sense?
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> source-o-matic helped me
<BonBonTheJon> why not redo source-o-matic and put in all the ubuntu repos
<LaserJock> BonBonTheJon: because he doesn't understand what the repos are
<EmxBA> i do, LaserJockq
<LaserJock> you should be screwing around with things unless you know what you are screwing around with
<EmxBA> LOL
<LaserJock> *shouldn't
<EmxBA> like "i'm stupid and i even don't know what repository is" LaserJock
<pygi> EmxBA: you should behave yourself
<pygi> this is not first time you are acting like that 
<LaserJock> EmxBA: you obviously don't because you should have known you needed dapper-update and dapper-security
<LaserJock> I'm not saying you don't know what a repo *is*
<EmxBA> i didn't edit my sources.list for 2 months because it worked.
<LaserJock> I'm saying that you don't understand what the different Ubuntu repos are for
<EmxBA> i didn't know that dapper-update exists, my sources.list worked. end of story. thank you now.
<LaserJock> you should read the comments in sources.list before you go blowing it away with some script
<BonBonTheJon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27371/, a basic source.list
<BonBonTheJon> oops, i think the comma got in the link
<EmxBA> no, it's OK
<stelis> EmxBA: We probably all learn to backup config files the hard way 
<stelis> Losing your sources.list is getting off lightly :)
<EmxBA> yeah, something like that
<BonBonTheJon> EmxBA: use that source.list, and put in the other few you had, like compiz (if you are using it)
<EmxBA> hmmmm
<EmxBA> why do i have these strange erros
<EmxBA> *errors
<EmxBA> dpkg: serious warning: files list file for package `something' missing, assuming package has no files currently installed.
<EmxBA> and tones of those
<sbalneav> Because you've got packages installed that you don't have the repos listed for anymore.
<EmxBA> and how can i get rid of that?
<sbalneav> Well, you'll have to figure out which package it is that's giving the error, then add back in the repo that that package resides in.
<EmxBA> ok
<BonBonTheJon> EmxBA: are you using compiz, that would be the only difference
<pygi> BonBonTheJon: please don't suggest using that script, thanks =)
<BonBonTheJon> pygi: sorry, i've never had any problem with it
<stelis> BonBonTheJon: Did you get DocBook working?
<stelis> I think that you posted a question earlier
<LaserJock> well, I don't think it's bad, you just need to be careful and have backups :-)
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: not really, i have to load yelp everytime to view it
<stelis> Amen
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: and is there a DocBook editor besides kate
<stelis> Second thing first: there are several, depending on your needs
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: for kde?
<sbalneav> There is only one need.  And vim fufills it. :)
<sbalneav> s/fufills/fulfills/
<pygi> sbalneav: :)))
<stelis> I'm currently using Emacs, but I hate vim and emacs equally
<sbalneav> Heathen!!!! :)
<stelis> But the nxml plugin for Emacs with DocBookj is useful
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: i was looking for more of a graphical editor,
<stelis> Nano is the one true way
<sbalneav> Nano!?
<pygi> o joy, let's hunt for Ed :)
<BonBonTheJon> I do like nano
<sbalneav> :)
<LaserJock> I like them all
<stelis> BonBonTheJon: text editor arguments are a tradition
<LaserJock> BonBonTheJon: well, you could build the docbook into HTML and view it that way :-)
<sbalneav> Yeah, you're not having fun in the Linux world unless you're arguing about your editor zealotry. :)
<BonBonTheJon> is there an easy way to view docbook, so i can refresh when i change something
<sbalneav> That's actually a good question.
<sbalneav> Yelp needs a reload button.
<LaserJock> Ctrl-R
<sbalneav> Which reminds me, I have to add a chapter about localdevs to the Edubuntu handbook tonight.
<sbalneav> Does that reload?
<LaserJock> yes
<sbalneav> Sexy!
<stelis> I have a script to rebuild after I've changed something, but I don't know of WYSIWYG editor
<stelis> The tools are kind of crusty
<LaserJock> conglomerate is a WYSIWYG editor
<pygi> sbalneav: indeed ;)
<stelis> Is that being developed again?
<LaserJock> but it doesn't really work for very big/complicated docs
<BonBonTheJon> i'm maybe about halfway on the concepts: networks and networking
<stelis> Dave Malcolm stopped work on it a while ago
<stelis> BonBonJon: Could you pastebin this?
<stelis> I've been working some more on this myself
<BonBonTheJon> !pastebin > bonbonthejon
<pygi> stelis: so the project is dead? :-/
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: i hope its ok http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27373/
<stelis> pygi: I don't know
<stelis> I just remember an email where DM said he hadn't had time for it 
<pygi> cvs sees old :(
<stelis> It'd be a shame
<stelis> BonBonTheJon: We can probably merge together - I've haven't done hardware  
<stelis> Hang on a sec...
<stelis> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27374/
<stelis> Thanks for being patient
<stelis> What I've done is tacked my waffle after yours 
<stelis> Since my bit picks up where your text ends
<stelis> Feel free to rewrite what I've written
<stelis> FWIW, one of the aims of my stuff is to explain the terms that the user will see during the installation process
<stelis> e.g. They are prompted to specify a proxy server for APT
<stelis> or "was", since I think that you'd probably do better on this section than me
<stelis> I keep wanting to oversimplify
<cbx33> hey people
<LaserJock> hi
<cbx33> dude
<cbx33> how are you
<LaserJock> fine
<BonBonTheJon> how do you comment in docbook
<stelis> <!-- Comment -->
<BonBonTheJon> thanks, stelis
#edubuntu 2006-10-20
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: how can the web proxy optimise network usage
<stelis> If you have multiple clients accessing the same page then the Web cache downloads the content once
<stelis> Which is a big deal if you have a classroom and a small Internet connection
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: ok, so it can cache, alright
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: i didnt know if edubuntu did cache
<stelis> It doesn't unless you install a cache package
<stelis> But many .edu networks have a prxoy already
<stelis> And Edubuntu will use it
<stelis> If you configure the applications
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: does edubuntu already do filtering
<stelis> That list was really of network services that users need to be aware of when they install Edubuntu
<BonBonTheJon> ok
<stelis> Many .edu networks *require* access via an existing proxy...so Edubuntu won't have Internet access unless they  configure proxy support
<stelis> Which is why I figured it was important
<stelis> BonBonTheJon: FWIW, I actually use VMware for testing Edubuntu
<stelis> You can simulate a thin client network with Workstation
<BonBonTheJon> oh, maybe i should try out edubuntu, lol
<stelis> It helps a lot :)
<stelis> Ubuntu ships QEMU
<stelis> Which a like Vmware but free and more fiddly
<BonBonTheJon> cant i just download vmware and an edubuntu virtual machine
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: see if it sounds ok so far http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27392/
<stelis> Edubuntu has two modes: the default and "stand-alone". The default mode enables the system as an LTSP thin client server.  
<stelis> So you need one VM to run Edubuntu and a second to be the thin client...
<stelis> OK.
<stelis> Reviewing is mostly ignoring the good stuff and picking up trivial errors...
<stelis> Two things, really:
<stelis> You've said "page", but this document may be either on-line or printed, so you probably need to say "section" or "document"
<BonBonTheJon> ok changed to section
<stelis> I did say trivial :)
<BonBonTheJon> i'm trying to leave the section more general network ideas, rather than specific to edubuntu
<stelis> That's probably what's wanted
<BonBonTheJon> i figured
<BonBonTheJon> what was the second thing
<stelis> The other is that you need to explain a new term when you introduce it, even though it may seem totally obvious
<stelis> e.g. wired and wireless
<BonBonTheJon> like...
<BonBonTheJon> yeah, i haven't done those yet
<stelis> OK, I'll shut then
<BonBonTheJon> thanks
<stelis> :)
<lguerra> RichEd: Ping
<sbalneav> Evening all
<ajmitch> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hello
<BonBonTheJon> hi
<nixternal> hi, i am new to linix, and me want to hack govornament campooters
<BonBonTheJon> ??
<nixternal> i have no clue
<nixternal> i just got done doing my marketing homework, so my brain is shot
<BonBonTheJon> lol, i'm trying to study for a c programming test
<nixternal> man..i can't wait to get to C programming...im doing all my pre-req courses now...looks like i will take my first in next summer
<nixternal> see...my bachelors in computer science, i emphasized on IS and Intranetworking instead of coding
<BonBonTheJon> nixternal: i do my homework in gcc and it confuses my classmates
<sbalneav> I've been programming in C for 20+ years.
<nixternal> but i had taken assembly, c, vb, and ladder logic years ago
<nixternal> jeesh sbalneav
<sbalneav> It, uhh, isn't quite so exciting after that long :)
<BonBonTheJon> nixternal: yeah, our program is mainly focused on database
<nixternal> i coded in C in the 90's
<nixternal> now im going back to get some more coding skills
<nixternal> there are 3 steps in this program im doing...there is C++, VB blah, and I cannot remember the 3rd, it might have been database stuff
<sbalneav> heh, my first C program was a terminal program I wrote for my 300 baud modem back in 1985. Wrote it in turbo C when I was 17. :)
<nixternal> so in this program, i will cover windows c, unix c, gui, c#, and some perl
<nixternal> i know the c isn't different, but there are a couple of seperate courses
<BonBonTheJon> nixternal: i do my programming in nano and compile with gcc, it confuses the windows kids
<nixternal> my problem is i can read the code just fine, but i couldn't create a program on my own anymore...i want to get back to coding on my own and creating my own stuff
<nixternal> gcc -ofun
<nixternal> BonBonTheJon: it is nice to know im not the only nano freak
<nixternal> although, for my text editing stuff, for instance docbook and what not, nothing beats kate for me
<BonBonTheJon> nixternal: nano if I'm in console, kate if i have my gui
<nixternal> gedit is nice though, but kate validates docbook and xml
<nixternal> ya BonBonTheJon, same here
<BonBonTheJon> nixternal: great minds think alike
<nixternal> indeed they do
<nixternal> ;)
<sbalneav> If you're a nano freak, that means you're 99.999999999% normal.
<nixternal> heh
<sbalneav> That's a, I say, that's a JOKE son.
<nixternal> people still ooh and ahh over vi, well vim
<nixternal> but vim is to much work
<sbalneav> So tell me, if you move a piece of code around, and need to move it back 2 indent levels, how does that work in nano?
<nixternal> thats where i use kate
<nixternal> nano is for my quick cli edit
<nixternal> s
<LaserJock> I still haven't been able to get into kate or gedit
<nixternal> then what are you using?
<nixternal> what are you into?
<LaserJock> vim usually
<LaserJock> emacs sometimes
<nixternal> cuz you are so elite
<LaserJock> not really
<LaserJock> I just can't figure out how to use the GUI editors very well
<nixternal> you can't figure out how to use the gui editors, but you have figured out emacs
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> yep
<nixternal> you are backwards
<LaserJock> the GUI editors always mess me up
<LaserJock> the line wrapping
<LaserJock> I can't do things like move columns
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> kate the line wrapping is smooth
<nixternal> gedit it is rather crude
<BonBonTheJon> in kate, I dont like the hashing it does for line wrapping
<nixternal> see, i kind of do like that...it lets you know it is line wrapped
<sbalneav> LaserJock: You're kinda a doco/yelp/xml sort of person, right?
<sbalneav> When you're not shooting lasers at things.
<LaserJock> well, I'm on the doc team
<sbalneav> Cool.
<LaserJock> so I suppose
<sbalneav> What's the best way to handle menu selections.  I'm working on the handbook...
<sbalneav> And I want to say something like...
<sbalneav> Open the System menu, and go to System -> Users and Groups
<sbalneav> Is there a tag for that?
<LaserJock> the doc team has a system for that
<sbalneav> Lay it on me bro!
<nixternal> <guimenu>System</guimenu><menuitem>Users and Groups</menuitem>
<sbalneav> Ooooh
<LaserJock> sbalneav: do you have the doc team repo by chance?
<sbalneav> sexxxy
<LaserJock> we set up files
<sbalneav> Um, no.  I'm working on the edubuntu handbook, and that's currently off in it's own little world.
<LaserJock> so you can do like &gedit; and it would insert the above for gedit
<nixternal> ooh, i seen my makefile booboos for the kubuntu pdf's yesterday...i refixed them, and still had booboos i overlooked..yesterday was not a good doc day for me
<nixternal> LaserJock: i think what i will do is when i have a lot of content, im going to go through and create a handbook.ent and move a lot of stuff over to it
<nixternal> like LTSP for one
<nixternal> otherwise people will be trying to translate it, and making it hard on users
<sbalneav> So, if it was a multilevel pick, you'd do <guimenu>Applications</guimenu><guimenu>Internet</guimenu><menuitem>Naughty Pictures Of Bugs</menuitem> ?
<LaserJock> so right now we have a gnome-menus.ent that has a line like <!ENTITY rhythmbox SYSTEM '../menus/C/rhythmbox.xml'>
<nixternal> hrmm...
<BonBonTheJon> can you guys look over my introduction to networks for the handbook, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27430/
<BonBonTheJon> its not done yet
<nixternal> <guimenu> is the top item
<nixternal> then there is
<nixternal> <guisubmenu>
<nixternal> man..im having a hell of time thinking about this one for some reason
<nixternal> <guimenuitem>
<nixternal> so it goes, if im correct
<nixternal> <guimenu>KMenu</guimenu><guisubmenu>Internet</guisubmenu><guimenuitem>Konqueror</guimenuitem>
<nixternal> ya, that looks correct
<sbalneav> ah, submenu
<nixternal> BonBonTheJon: you rock!
<BonBonTheJon> nixternal: since you focused on networks I thought you could look over it
<nixternal> very nice clean code
<BonBonTheJon> kate is good!
<nixternal> that it is
<nixternal> <important> tag, dont' think i have used that one much
<BonBonTheJon> nixternal: someone else sent me the little part they did as a start, and it was in there
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> good validation it seems as well
<LaserJock> !pastebin
<nixternal> pastebin.ubuntu-nl.com
<nixternal> i think
<nixternal> .org
<nixternal> http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org
<nixternal> there you go lazy
<BonBonTheJon> look up, i just posted one
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27432/
<nixternal> oh ya, i forgot about menuchoice
<nixternal> woudn't this be correct though ->  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27434/
<sbalneav> So, I'm thinking of moving from Firefox to Epiphany.  Can anyone give me a cogent reason not to?
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> hehe
<crimsun> memory requirement would be the only thing I could think of.
<^Ghost2U> anyone install opera on dapper?
* ^Ghost2U is an opera fan
<Burgundavia> ^Ghost2U: my brother has
<LaserJock> I installed it
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: do you use many ff extensions?
<sbalneav> Nope.
<Burgundavia> crimsun: memory usage is less with ephy
<Burgundavia> currently one of the main nice things about ephy is broken, due to mozilla's crap code
<Burgundavia> normally you can search for the main bar, but right now it is busted
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I don't like how it epi handles URL editing
<LaserJock> but other then that it seems cool
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: url editing?
<^Ghost2U> I'm trying to but it's saying sudo won't allow the install
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: you know. editing a previous URL
<nixternal> Burgundavia: is it possible to set the address bar to use tab to autocomplete instead of loosing focus on the address bar?
<LaserJock> I talked with you once
<crimsun> wrt editing URLs, I'm convinced that epiphany-browser has it correct, whereas opera/ff/etc. have it broken.
<Burgundavia> nixternal: no idea
<Burgundavia> losing focus is one of the most annoying bugs ephy has
<nixternal> i have jsut gotten so used to hitting tab to autocomplete, and i hate when i loose focus with epiphany doing so
<Burgundavia> the ephy devs have to do a lot of hacking around moz stupidness
<LaserJock> crimsun: I know you do but I just can't figure out how to do things efficiently otherwise
<nixternal> i wonder why, since it is in moz
<Burgundavia> because it is moz
<nixternal> but then again, i heard crazy stuff about getting tree view in konversation
<Burgundavia> moz as a platform generally sucks, unless you are using xul and all their secret sauce
<nixternal> heh, obviously you haven't messed with KHTML
<^Ghost2U> can someone tell me why i cannot install the opera deb pkg for ubuntu dapper?
<nixternal> it would make you love internet explorer
<Burgundavia> ^Ghost2U: out of the repos?
<crimsun> it works fine out of dapper-commercial
<LaserJock> ^Ghost2U: I'd use Canonical's dapper-commercial repo
<^Ghost2U> off of opera's mirror
<LaserJock> crimsun: why do think epi's got it right? it seems odd to me but I'm sure I can be convinced
<^Ghost2U> quote: The underlying authorization mechanism (sudo) does not allow you to run this program. Contact your syste, administrator
<crimsun> LaserJock: well, first it's just my opinion. second, I tend to use bookmarks far more often than editing URLs in-place.
<LaserJock> crimsun: that would make a difference. I don't use *any* bookmarks really
<^Ghost2U> ok.. assume I'm totally ignorant of retreiving from the repos (I am), what to do?
<LaserJock> I find bookmarks somewhat annoying
<nixternal> svn commit -m "The Feisty Fawn - 7.04 is in the repos - sorry, I was iching to do this one ;)"
<nixternal> Sending        libs/global.ent
<nixternal> woo0t
<nixternal> would have been nice if i was in the doc channel like i had planned
<nixternal> im glad i can spell itching as well
<crimsun> ^Ghost2U: echo "deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu main dapper-commercial" |sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install opera
<LaserJock> I have FF, epi, opera, and konqi and I don't particularly like any of them so I just bounce between them
<nixternal> ya, same here
<nixternal> i hate to say it, but i think ie6 takes the cake for browsers
<nixternal> except the fact that it doesn't tab, but there are hacks to fix that
<^Ghost2U> crimsun: permission problem with tee command to sources.list
<LaserJock> ie6? have you gone nuts?
<^Ghost2U> file attrib 644 owner root group root
<LaserJock> :-)
<crimsun> ^Ghost2U: did you copy and paste the entire command verbatim?
<^Ghost2U> nix: you wold be joking, right?
<^Ghost2U> would
<nixternal> i would hope so, as it has been years since i last used ie
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> my brain is shot right now, and im not quick on my feet with the sarcasm it seems
<LaserJock> nah, it was good
<crimsun> in other news, rich is a gnome convert.
<crimsun> swore off all kde apps two hours ago
<nixternal> oh crimsun do not spread those lies
<LaserJock> darn, I'm gullible today
<nixternal> i will be hung
<nixternal> although, i do like edubuntu ;)
<LaserJock> why?
<nixternal> why what?
<^Ghost2U> well, no errors, but not sure if it's doing anything either
<LaserJock> why would you be hung?
<nixternal> oh, could you imagine me using gnome, while writing the karbon 14 docs for kde
<nixternal> i would use windows before i would use gnome ;)
* nixternal hides
<^Ghost2U> crimsun: can't... ubuntu box is another pc
<LaserJock> nixternal: how odd, really
<nixternal> so odd, that...
<nixternal> i failed on that one
<crimsun> nixternal: (not really -- most of the patches I make are done in a putty session)
<nixternal> but crimsun, that is probably because you are working on ubuntu from "work" which is probably all ms
<nixternal> so you have a reason, or an excuse
<crimsun> it's because I'm working on the next Ubuntu killer!!
<crimsun> err, yeah.
<^Ghost2U> hmm
<^Ghost2U> opera doesn't appear in sources.list
<crimsun> it's not supposed to appear in sources.list
<^Ghost2U> ok
<crimsun> dapper-commercial is the "pocket"; opera appears in that "pocket"
<crimsun> you can see with ``apt-cache policy opera''
<^Ghost2U> unable to locate opera
<^Ghost2U> W: unable to locate package opera
<crimsun> did you add the dapper-commercial pocket and then update?
<^Ghost2U> i banged out the commands verbatim
<^Ghost2U> assume i'm new to edubuntu
<^Ghost2U> but not entirely new to linux
<Dheeraj_ku> hi is it possible to install all the package of fedora4 on ubuntu?
<crimsun> ^Ghost2U: sudo apt-get update
<^Ghost2U> no traffic / activity on my modem nor hdd
<crimsun> Dheeraj_ku: what do you mean?
* ^Ghost2U is lost
<crimsun> ^Ghost2U: pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list
<crimsun> http://pastebin.ca , please
<sbalneav> Well, I'm heading to bed.  Night all!
<^Ghost2U> crimsun: post is 211130
<LaserJock> ^Ghost2U: it doesn't look like the dapper-commercial repo was added
<LaserJock> ^Ghost2U: maybe try sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list in a terminal
<LaserJock> and add the following line:
<LaserJock> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu dapper-commercial main
<LaserJock> and then save it and run sudo apt-get update in the terminal
<^Ghost2U> ok
<LaserJock> once you've done that you should be able to run sudo apt-get install opera
<^Ghost2U> now we're getting somewhere
<^Ghost2U> :)
<^Ghost2U> was getting some weird stuff from thin client when trying the previous stuff
<^Ghost2U> I was actually on the client atempting to run install
<^Ghost2U> sweet!
<^Ghost2U> it's installed
<^Ghost2U> LaserJock: thanks a bunch! .. gotta crash, it's almost 2AM here, and i gotta be up in 4 hrs
<LaserJock> ok, glad it worked
<^Ghost2U> later laser :)
<RichEd> morning l
<RichEd> let's try that again : morning ladies & gents
<highvoltage> morning RichEd!
<RichEd> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> we should actually all chime together like a classroom... moor-ning-mis-ter-rich-ed
<RichEd> I meant me try that again ... I had to clear my keyboard ... the l stutter :)
<RichEd> speaking of kiddies greeting teacher ... here's a friday feelgood link from ogra last night:
<RichEd> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=280193
<freet15> greeting
<highvoltage> RichEd: I've put it on the Edubuntu website and submitted to fridge :)
<highvoltage> hi freet15 
<RichEd> great :)
<freet15> :) now , It`s 2:30 PM in  Beijing China
<highvoltage> freet15: it's only 08:21 in South Africa, we still have a long hard day ahead of us
<freet15> Highvoltage: so... morning for you  ;)
<freet15> highvoltage:Nice to meet you
<highvoltage> freet15: :)
<pips1> good morning/day/evening/night to everyone 
<freet15> pips1: :) so powerfull~~
<pips1> RichEd: did lguerra manage to speak to you yesterday?
<pips1> freet15: ni hao ma?
<freet15> :) ni hao, where are you?
<pips1> Switzerland
<highvoltage> mornign pips1 
<freet15> pips1: beautiful country ~ 
<pips1> freet15: ni shi xuesheng ma?
<RichEd> hi ... back after an adsl reset ... freet did you comment on this ? I may have missed your response.
<RichEd> pips1: so to add to your other skills ... do you speak mandarin as well ?
<freet15> pips1:not yet, your are chinese?!
<pips1> freet15: no, I'm just bluffing ;-)
<freet15> RichEd: no, we just  greet to each other. 
<freet15> ;)
<RichEd> I am glad he is making you feel welcome here.
<freet15> :)
<pips1> freet15: I spent 2 months in hangchow learning mandarin, but that was 18 years ago, and with no practise, I forgot everything :-/
<freet15> 18 years ago? *), I`m just a children that time! 
<pips1> erm hangzhou, rather
<pips1> yes, I was 15
<freet15> sorry, a litter busy....I was run off my feet today,
<freet15> see you later, guys
<pips1> so cool, found an english-mandarin (pinyin) online dictionary http://hua.umf.maine.edu/php/search.php
<pips1> oh, there are lots of them, ok ( http://hua.umf.maine.edu/php/search.php )
<pips1> ^^^ sorry, http://chinalinks.osu.edu/cdict.htm
* pips1 shuts up
<pips1> in xchat-gnome, is there a way to enable automatic local logging?
<pygi> morning
<pips1> hey
<willvdl> hi cbx33
<RichEd> cbx33 willvdl g'mornin'
<cbx33> hey RichEd 
<cbx33> I discovered a mad bug whilst looking for those menus
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> vmware had created nested directories up to about 128 levels
<cbx33> I knew there was something amiss
<lucasvo> anyone know how to edit shortcuts in FF
<willvdl> lucasvo, meaning?
<lucasvo> willvdl: I want to disable the alt+s shortcut
<willvdl> ah. the help files don't say anything
<pips1> lucasvo: did you have a look at the about:config yet?
<ogra> pips1, did you send me the syslog ?
<ogra> i see no mails here
<cbx33> mornin ogra 
<pips1> wow
<pips1> that went like really really well.. xchat on windows. :-/
<pips1> ack
<pips1> sorry for the noise, folks
<ogra> pips1, did you send me the syslog ?
<ogra> i see no mail here
<pips1> yes i did.. should i re-send?
<ogra> hmm, i didnt get it
<pips1> sent to ogra at ubuntu dot com, 19.10.2006 16:49
* pips1 re-sends
<pips1> the syslog attachment is about 0.6 MB... big, but shouldn't be a problem, really
<cbx33> did you tar it up pips1 ?
* pips1 blushes
<cbx33> heheh
* cbx33 pokes pips1 
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> pips1, did you have wires connected to both interfaces ?
<ogra> s/wires/swithces or hubs/
<pips1> yes
<ogra> Oct 19 12:42:46 kernel: [   99.532168]  eth0: no link during initialization.
<ogra> Oct 19 12:42:46 netcfg[12754] : WARNING **: couldn't determine MII ioctl to use for eth0  
<ogra> thats the only thing that doesnt look kosher
<cbx33> dodgy cable?
<cbx33> how are you today ogra 
<cbx33> got time for a little SCP chat later?
<ogra> yep, a bit later ... i'm still running DVD tests ...
<cbx33> ok sure np
* cbx33 is preparing a 3 course excel traning session *shudder*
<cbx33> i have till the end of the day :p
<pips1> I did try replacing one of the cables, but I didn't replace the cable from the server to the switch.. I was assuming there is a connection, because the lights on the switch are lit up
<ogra> ooooh, wait
<ogra> do you use 192.168.0.XXX for your internet access network ?
<pips1> i don't thinks so, my router is 192.168.1.1
<ogra> can you check that ?
* pips1 fires up the edubuntu server
<ogra> there is one case where the autconfiguration doesnt do anything, that is if the 192.168.0 range is already used for the other inbterface
<pips1> ic
<RichEd> hi ogra, quick question following up on my default application question yesterday ... what is the name of the files used to configure the menu [ Applications ]  [ Places ]  [ System ] 
<RichEd> ogra: and nice feelgood story about the pre-school :)
<ogra> RichEd, the .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/ define the menu entries
<RichEd> :) thanks
<pips1> in my router config, it says local network ip address 192.168.1.1
<pips1> can I double check from the server somehow?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> ifconfig -a 
<ogra> see if the interface has a  192.168.1 address
<pips1> eth0 doesn't have an ip set, eth1 is on 192.168.0.6 <-- ?!
<pips1> ^^^ why is eth1 on 192.168.0.6, I thought it would be 192.168.1.x, or not?
<pips1> ogra, doesn't the edubuntu server internet facing interface get an ip from my router's dhcp range (which is 192.168.1.33 to 63)?
<stelis> pips1: Mine does
<stelis> It's a development release...
<stelis> FWIW
* pips1 is obviously confused about the whole networking thing with gateway, dhcp, ...
<stelis> stelis: I was
<pips1> heh
<stelis> I discovered that solution was to leave it alone
<pips1> :)
<stelis> And Edubuntu do what it wanted
<stelis> My router uses 192.168.1.0 network
<stelis> And Edubuntu uses 192.168.0.0
<stelis> I screwed it up trying to customise it the first ime arounds
<stelis> I notice that settings a static address for the external connection
<stelis> Doesn't seem to set the default gateway
<pips1> hmm
<stelis> What's your current setup?
<pips1> hardware or software setup?
<stelis> network, I guess
<stelis> You should have a router with DHCP, and Edubuntu system with 2 interfaces, right?
<pips1> internet - adsl modem/router - hub - edubuntu server - switch - thin client
<stelis> Is that a separate hub?
<pips1> yes
<pips1> separate?
<stelis> Not built-in to the router itself
<pips1> yes, separate
<pips1> I connect to the hub with my laptop, so I can stay connected to IRC while testing
<stelis> So DHCP is probably OK on the router
<pips1> yes
<stelis> OK, so the issue is with the interface configuration on Edubuntu...
<pips1> ah, let me check the ip i currently have on my laptop
<pips1> my laptop, coming from the hub, has ip 192.168.0.3
<stelis> That may be the issue
<pips1> while I thought it would get an ip from my routers dhcp range...
<pips1> hmm
<stelis> You need two separate networks
<pips1> what the heck is my router doing?
<stelis> The router's network needs to be different from Edubuntu's
<stelis> In other words...
<stelis> Not 192.168.0.0
<pips1> yes
<stelis> Try resetting your router to use something different
<stelis> Like 192.168.5.0/255.255.255.0
* RichEd is out for 20 mins
<pips1> but i wonder why it's 192.168.0.x since my router configuration is telling me that its ip address is 192.168.1.1 and its dhcp range is 192.168.1.33 - 63 ?
<stelis> You've got two DHCP servers
<pips1> correct
<stelis> You're laptop is picking up from Edubuntu
<pips1> on on the router, the other one on the edubuntu server
<stelis> Rather than the router
<pips1> that's strange
<stelis> The question is which Edubuntu itself is using for configuring it's interfaces...
<stelis> You can only safely have one DHCP server on a given network segment
<pips1> right
<stelis> Which raise the question of why my setup works :)
<ogra> do you have bo0th cards plugged in the same switch/hub or something like that ?
<stelis> My setup is more funky...
<pips1> ogra, no
<stelis> I have a DSL router with DHCP, a laptop running Vmware
<ogra> the edubuntu dhcp shouldnt see the other one ...
<stelis> The Edubuntu network is virtual with VMware
<pips1> ogra, yes, but there seems something bizarre going on here
<ogra> yeah
<stelis> ogra: would it be possible for the Edubuntu default to be different?
<stelis> Since network routers default to 192.16.8.0
<ogra> ifr they are physically parted networks, you shouldnt see the 192.168.0 net from your laptop if its attached to the router
<stelis> I wonder about the hub that pip1 has
<ogra> stelis, yes, thats planned for later ... we had this default for quite some time, so i didnt want to force the switch yet
<pips1> it's a shitty old hub
<stelis> Could you remove it and see what happens?
<pips1> some no name crap
<ogra> whats the ip setup of your edubuntu server ?
<stelis> ogra: OK, great
<ogra> paste ifconfig -a somewhere
<ogra> and i assume you didnt change your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<pips1> ogra, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27459/
<pips1> no, I did change it
<ogra> eth1 is connected to the outside world ?
<ogra> and eth0 isnt connected at all ...
<pips1> I think so... how can I double check, to see if my pci card is eth0?
<ogra> i bet youre network cables are plugged in flipped
<pips1> ifconfig only has the mac address, rather than harware vendor info...
* pips1 looks at lspci
<ogra> flip tha cables and reboot th eedubuntu server 
<ogra> i bet it works then
<ogra> *the
<pips1> flip what cables?
<ogra> on the edubuntu server
<pips1> ok, i'll try
<pips1> ogra, now I don't have internet connection on the server
<ogra> intresting
<ogra> i wonder if you have a third dhcpd running somewhere
<pips1> and neither network interface has an ip
<pips1> ahhh!
<ogra> do you ?
<pips1> possibly
<pips1> I have a hardware firewall that might be running a dhcp on it's own!
<ogra> well, that would be it ... flip the cables back, find the other dhcpd and fix the edubuntu net setup :)
<pips1> so, in fact I got: internet - asdl modem/router w dhcp - hw firewall w dhcp - hub - edubuntu server
<pips1> ack!
<ogra> ok
<pips1> so I got a chain of dhcp servers
<ogra> for feisty i'll regenerate the ip config if 192.168.0 is found
<pips1> =8-O
<ogra> then it would work even in that setup
<pips1> aren't all those nifty home networking appliances cool ? ;-)
<pips1> each with it's very own dhcp server
<stelis> They Just Work :)
<pips1> well
<stelis> But not together :)
<pips1> hehe
<ogra> :)
* pips1 tries to find his hw firewall manual
<ogra> so your non working install was actually not a bug but a known missing feature in the design, thats calming :)
<pips1> so ogra, should i try to re-configure my hw firewall's dhcp, or should i re-configure my edubuntu server? what do you think?
<pips1> right...
<ogra> i'd kill the dhcpd on the firewall
<cbx33> yikes lots of activity here :0
<pips1> I hope it'l have that option
<ogra> well, you said it worked in former installs, just change back what you changed since then ;)
<stelis> cbx33: we defeated the problem for force of numbers
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> hi stelis not seen you aroung here?
<stelis> This is about day 6 as an Edubuntu user
<stelis> I've been around just since the beginning of the week
<stelis> It's very cool stuff
<stelis> I used to  run a diskless workstation network for a school
<cbx33> ahhh nice
<stelis> We had to "upgrade"
<stelis> Nt 4
<stelis> One giant step forward for MS
<stelis> One massive step back for us
* pips1 tries to remember if he even ever had a manual for the hw firewall
<stelis> It's great to see that LTSP seems to be bringing it back
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> edubuntu rocks
<stelis> I get the impression that Edubuntu is kind of new?
* pips1 can be heard cursing at this hw firewall in the background
<stelis> Fetch the hammer :)
<RichEd> stelis: April 2005 was its birth month
* pips1 tries to guess the password for his hw firewall
<stelis> RichEd: I'm just behind then :)
<stelis> RichEd: I hope that the mail to ubuntu-education was helpful
<RichEd> Ah ... did you send that mail ... it was great thanks !
<stelis> I looked at it this morning and thought
<stelis> "That's a touch ranty"
<RichEd> Those are exactly the sort of issue we share in comon across products and want to share and discuss !
<stelis> But yeah, the list price of software is not the real issue for Colleges
<RichEd> Here's the coment I added, before pasting a chunk into the #ubuntu-education channel:
<RichEd> <paste>
<RichEd> An excerpt from a post to the list this morning ... something which never occured to me, but an issue I understand well from my "commercial days" and my 3rd degree allergy to paperwork asset registers and audit trails:
<stelis> So "Open Source is cheaper" is not an effective pitch, IMHO
<RichEd> <paste>
<highvoltage> stelis: I'm with you on that last one. there are also much better reasons to go with OSS :)
<stelis> I had an anecdote about switching to an OSS product solely because the vendor's licencing strategy made it so difficult for us to do the right thing
<stelis> We wanted to give them their money :)
<RichEd> stelis: mail it to me directly if you still have it in mind.
<stelis> highvoltage: true
<stelis> RichEd: Will do
<RichEd> And in general ... its not just the school world that has admin nightmares looking after licences and renewals and papwerwork. I would guess that in some organisations the cost of the admin time (and systems) might even outweigh the licence fees.
<stelis> RichEd: for utility software definitely
<stelis> Trivial stuff like FTP clients and CD writing software
<stelis> The bundled Windows apps are not sufficient 
<stelis> So we have to pile more software on top
<stelis> Some of which only costs $20 on something a go
<stelis> But decision-makers don't understand why it's necessary
<RichEd> (and SQL client access licenses and such like)
<stelis> And it means more vendors to deal with 
<stelis> RichEd: Yes
<stelis> The nickle-and-dime stuff
<RichEd> And factor in the cost of work interruption when the piracy police come with the forensic microscope and rubber gloves.
<stelis> It rarely happens but there is a dedicated shop your boss telephone line
<stelis> An unhappy employee could score money and a bit of revenge just by ringing the BSA
<stelis> At any time
<stelis> So we have to be water-tight
* RichEd nods ... here in SA as well ... and sometimes the piracy police visit the Universities ... and any package that any student has installed for use once off, even against the policies of the uni, gets added to the invoice.
<stelis> I wondered about the dialling code on your phone number
<stelis> I'm in the UK
<pips1_> RichEd, really?! wow
<cbx33> stelis/......ooooh me too
<cbx33> whereare you based?
<stelis> Wales
<RichEd> I'm in Cape Town, South Africa
* cbx33 is in Southampton
<stelis> Beyond the borders of civilisation
<stelis> A southerner!
<stelis> (from Yorkshire originally)
<stelis> RichEd: Is Ubuntu doing well there?
<RichEd> stelis: short answer ... no better or wose than elsewhere ... we do not have a stong open source general mindset ... but we have strong pockets of motivated individuals
<stelis> That sounds a lot like the UK
<cbx33> stelis
<cbx33> yup
<stelis> It's disappointing
<cbx33> indeed
<RichEd> we have had a good wide scale deployment of ICT in schools over the last 3 years, but the first round of installs and training were MS based ... and now there is an embedded base to turn-around.
<cbx33> it's nice to find another uk person
<stelis> cbx33: This global thing is mind-blowing
<RichEd> As a whole, Ubuntu (and open source) is being embraced by developing nations where there is little invested capex and market forces are not yet mature. 
<cbx33> stelis....yeh it is
<stelis> cx33: You probably are the first UK OSS person I've met here
<pips1_> capex?
<RichEd> So if you look eastwards, we see numbers like 300,000 OEM installs.
<stelis> RichEd: That sounds brilliant
<stelis> Our problem is that government agencies specify Windows-only solutions
<stelis> And say that there is no demand for Linux support
<cbx33> stelis...heheh
<stelis> Circular arguments
<stelis> pip1: Capital expenditure
<pips1_> stelis, ta
<stelis> Money sunk in licences and Windows-only hardware...
<stelis> "We've spent the money so we'll keeping using what doesn't work"
<stelis> head, meet wall
<pips1_> yeah, there are huge amounts of money sunk into licencse alone. here in the municipalities in Switzerland..
<stelis> pips1_: The numbers are scary
<willvdl> stelis, civil societies in africa are genrally quite pro-OSS
<stelis> You could fund all of Ubuntu on what gets wasted
<pips1_> a recent study in switzerland showed that the licences alone account for 47% of the municipalities' IT expenses
<cbx33> stelis too true
<stelis> willvdl: I don't not much about non-profits here
<stelis> pips1: Do you have a link?
<stelis> I collect advocacy articles
<willvdl> additionally, the blossoming mobile comms market in Africa is looking critically at linux backends, db services, convergence etc
<willvdl> stelis, you may then just be my new best friend :)
<stelis> willvdl: I'm convinced that Linux will prbably win by killing desktop PCs 
<pips1_> stelis, the information available online about that study is meagre, and german only
<stelis> And replacing with OLPC andthin clients, and appliance type stuff
<willvdl> that is the question isn't it?
<willvdl> kiosk mode desktops for specific applications
<stelis> pips1_: OK. Thanks
<stelis> willvdl: Everything else is unmanageable IMO
<stelis> I see Windows-based ATMs
<stelis> Because that's what developers, know
<RichEd> stelis: cbx33 and I were looking at taking an approach in the UK as follows to counter the issues you raise ...
<RichEd> <paste warning>
<stelis> But they are horrific
<RichEd> > "If we look back from 5 years into the future, Open Source is
<RichEd> > a reality which will be used to some extent in UK Schools.
<RichEd> > 
<RichEd> > Arguments about whether Open Source or Microsoft will dominate
<RichEd> > are not relevant. Arguments about whether or not to throw out
<RichEd> > Microsoft in favour of Linux are also not on the table.
<RichEd> > 
<RichEd> > What is relevant is that there needs to be some investigation
<RichEd> > into the impact of some Open Source on an existing schools
<RichEd> > network:
<RichEd> > 
<RichEd> > 1. Open Source workstations first
<RichEd> > = interacting with the Windows network
<RichEd> > 2. then Open Source servers
<RichEd> > = allowing MS workstations to interact with them"
<RichEd> > 
<RichEd> > We hope then to get to demonstrate to the "MS flavour support
<RichEd> > people and the decision making powers" that Open Source:
<RichEd> > 1. has a place within UK Education right now
<RichEd> > 2. is not a future big bang issue or 100% change over issue
<RichEd> > 3. is not as scary or complex as it seems from the outside
<stelis> RichEd: I would take a different line of attack
<RichEd> even if we started a schools SIG for maths and science and open source programming with a few Edubuntu w/s in many schools, it may start a change in mindeset.
* RichEd is *always* prepared to listen
<stelis> Which may seem slightly out of scope, but IMO is vital
<stelis> OK: What absolutely locks us into Windows are a handful of key applications
<stelis> Like electronic exam systems and certified student tracking systems
<stelis> Funding boaides and exam boards say we *must* run these
<pips1_> student tracking system = ?
<stelis> Enrolments
<willvdl> like schooltool...emis, sams
<stelis> willvdl: not quite
<pips1_> right
<pips1_> stelis ?
<stelis> As a College we are paid by results
<stelis> We must deliver paperwork to funding bodies that who was enrolled, on what courses, and what the outcomes were
<stelis> There are only a small number of vendors selling applications to track and process this information
<willvdl> stelis, other lock-ins include existing skill-sets, 
<stelis> We pay them a lot and run what they tell us to 
<stelis> willvdL: Yes, but this is what shuts out even Linux desktops
<stelis> And Macs
<willvdl> and the cost of migration
<stelis> And anything that will not run the client portions
<pips1_> yep
<willvdl> agreed. the initial costs are qhat scare decision makers
<stelis> willvdl: You are slightly ahead of me
<willvdl> and not the long-term benefits
<stelis> Let me try to explain this
<stelis> I can potentially offer a desktop, Web browser, and office suite on any platform
<^Ghost2U> Mornin' all
* ^Ghost2U yawns and stretches
<stelis> We use MS Office because everybody is familiar with it, but there are ways to work on that
<willvdl> agreed
<stelis> What kills any alternative desktop is the hard requirement to run Windows for exam software, courseware, and data porcessing apps
<stelis> We have have to run exactly the application that we are told to
<ogra> well, in edgy+1 we'll have full rdesktop support in ltsp ... so you can use one edubuntu ltsp server, one windows terminal server and got thze best of both worlds
<ogra> and are still able to maintain everything centralized on the two servers
* pips1_ thinks that the new gui of forthcoming ms office might offer a window of opportunity for open office
<stelis> ogra: That's really important, but there's another piece to this...
<willvdl> stelis, ah, in the UK schooling context that is?
<stelis> I'm talking about both schools and colleges
<stelis> OK: the thing that I think is critical...
<stelis> The vendors themselves have been moving to Web-based server applications 
* pips1_ is not surprised to hear that the UK gov works with "authorised" applications only for their demographics reporting
<stelis> Typically: a Windows server with SQL Server or Oracle with IIS 
<stelis> And ActiveX controls that require IE on Windows on the desktop
<willvdl> In SA, our national dept of Ed has a SAMS/EMIS/Learner tracking requirement too. They provide a (DB) framework but can not enforce provincial decisions as to what tools to use.
<RichEd> stelis: while I agree with all of your arguments, the situation above describes a corner we get painted into ... make your software do exactly what our software does, and then we will consider changing to FOSS ... and this can lead to:
<RichEd> * the feared either or situation
<willvdl> But they do make one tool available free of charge to all schools nationally, a windows based app
<stelis> RichEd: Here's my suggestion
<stelis> The next generation of Open Source Web application frameworks are objectively better than .NET
<RichEd> * FOSS having to show that it can do *exactly* what is already being done (down to particualr app) instead of tackling the education need in a generic fashion
<stelis> And the vendors don't actually care
<stelis> They could migrate to say TurboGears  or Rails
<stelis> Their developers would benwfit
<pips1_> I read that on your post on the mailing list... and it got me thinking too... I agree that there is a big move towards webbased user interfaces and that we should make sure that open source offers usable solutions in that area... 
<stelis> And as a side-effect, the applications would be platform neutral
<stelis> Again the vendors are Windows only because portability takes effort
<willvdl> pips1_, the developing world is _not_ that well suited to centralised services though
<stelis> A TurboGears app can run on either Linux or Windows server
<pips1_> willvdl, right
<stelis> And the client could be any browser
<willvdl> if you look at african movements towards localisation and translation
<stelis> So OSS support would be a side-effect of better tools
<willvdl> the successful efforts are all distributed
<willvdl> stelis, food for thought
<stelis> If Canonical can support and promote a Web application framework
<stelis> You can encourage migration to both dedicated servers intially
<stelis> and break the locks that keep out OSS desktops
<stelis> Many of these apps run on a separate server
<stelis> Supplied by the vendor
<stelis> They run Windows for SQL Server and .NET, bu they could run Ubuntu
<stelis> Without impacting the rest of the network at all
<stelis> Again the vendors will go for the platform that is easiest for them
<stelis> And Linux also virtualizes better than Windows
<stelis> And you can run a Linux box without having to think about separate AV or backup software
<stelis> Which they have to ship on their dedicated app servers today
<stelis> And that's my idea really
<pips1_> stelis, maybe you are overrating the quality of current FOSS web frameworks... dunno.
<stelis> pips1_: True, but they suck less then Oracle and Java
<stelis> And Rails is fashionable
<willvdl> and have a lower barrier to entry
<stelis> Developers want these tools
<stelis> As they wanted .NET and SQL Server
<stelis> Because those were the most painless ways to build applications
<stelis> This point applies to internally-developed applications as well
<ogra> rails might be fashionable, but if you will see a canonical pushed framework it will rather be zope/python i guess
<stelis> ogra: True. But that's an example
<pips1_> I mean, the communities of Rails and TurboGears are so small compared to visual studio / .NET crowd..
<stelis> And Rails is making the idea of frameworks visible to developers
<stelis> Rails is growing insanely rapidly - with regional conferences springing up etc.
<stelis> And people that know Rails can grok TurboGears
<stelis> TurboGears + PostgreSQL on Ubuntu can do most or all of what the applications need 
<stelis> Without the headaches that Windows and MS bring
<stelis> I probably sound like a stuck record
* RichEd is in agreement with the general gist above, but still feels we can get some linux workstations into existing networks now, to be useful in education from angles other than existing entrenched applications and functions.
<pips1_> ogra, judging from the last Europython conference, unfortunately a lot of balkanisation has happened... with the Zope2 Zope3 split, and the new frameworks like TurboGears and Django...
<stelis> RichEd: I guess that you have to determine your target audience
<stelis> Active Directory management is a powerful disincentive to alternate platforms
<stelis> And again, ActiveX etc. kill the use of Linux
<RichEd> stelis: yes ... bear in mind I'm advocating both approaches, not an either or ... tackle from both ends.
<stelis> I'm not sure that this works
<stelis> I'm sorry to sound a bit stubborn, but this is my job :)
<stelis> Here's the scenario that kills Edubuntu use
<RichEd> I'll take it to be conviction, and not subbornness.
<RichEd> *stubborness
<stelis> I am a little passionate about this :) 
<RichEd> we all are ... or else we wouldn't be here :)
<stelis> Anyhow, my problem is that whilst you can use Edubuntu to enable advocates to push for change
<stelis> You can't maintain those beachheads
<stelis> Eventually an exam board or funding body will mandate applications or on-line services that are Windows-only
<stelis> And the Linux desktops will either have to be reverted
<jsgotangco> yo!
<pips1_> so stelis, to summarise your approach, you are thinking, leverage the individual strengths that linux and the exisiting FOSS communities have: web server + developer tools...
<stelis> Or there needs to be workaround like a separate Windows Terminal server
<stelis> pips1_: It doesn't address the desktop problem directly
<RichEd> Agreed. But what it will do, is help clear up the confusion surrounding Open Source that I think is being maintained by some people with vested interest or fears, by showing decision makers that it is able to exist side-by-side with other workstationsm, use existing authentication etc.
<RichEd> Much MS promoted messages against Open Source is about spreading fear and confusion around a "theroretical enemy".
<stelis> RichEd: I agree that beacon sites are critical to prove that it can be done
<jsgotangco> hmmm?
<RichEd> Much resistance to adoption comes from techies who know only MS and who do not want to tackle new areas where they may not be seen as a demi-god.
<stelis> But again /one/ of the prerequisites for sustaining even those is application support
<jsgotangco> RichEd: like me
<jsgotangco> heh
<stelis> RichEd: I very much agree
<stelis> Lack of application support is eagerly seized as an excuse to push OSS back 
<RichEd> Yep. But take a look at this blog post over a coffee ... from our Community Manager - Jono Bacon::
<RichEd> http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=687
<cbx33> man I hate MS
<cbx33> sorry just throw that in there
<cbx33> but just everything about it seems to stink
<jsgotangco> cbx33: sure but its part of life ;)
<stelis> My fear is that the pioneers pushing Linux desktops today will move on, and that the schools etc. that have been beacons which swtich back over time
<RichEd> Look at what he says Open Source can teach, wide of the syllabus & exam requirements. To me the skills he says Open Source breeds are key to survival in the Globally Connected Village & Economy.
<pips1_> cbx33, LOL
<cbx33> sorry I can do the whole....word argumentative side...but at the end of the day....I revert to childhood ism
<stelis> And that will be "proof" that OSS doesn't work
<jsgotangco> proof?
<jsgotangco> heck
* jsgotangco is not into platform arguments lately
* cbx33 is just so happy to be M$ free at home
<cbx33> and I can still play my games ;)
<stelis> cbx33: That's actually one of the reaons why I'm probably leaving .edu
<cbx33> stelis...I'd love to leave edu...but 
<stelis> Teaching to pass exams, rather than learning
* cbx33 has found it very difficult to find another job
<jsgotangco> hmm
<stelis> cbx33: That's my problem
* jsgotangco is not in edu but close to edu since he's doing software for edu
* cbx33 starts weeeping....nobody wants him
<jsgotangco> but we have a different edu situation here anyways
<stelis> jsgotangco: That's interesting
<cbx33> jsgotangco: that rocks
<cbx33> stelis, do you work in a school?
<pips1_> stelis, that's an interesting point, about the "teaching to pass exams"... I had discussions about this myself
<stelis> I work at a College
<stelis> Before that a school
<cbx33> do you get much vandalism there?
<stelis> cbx33: Opportunistic
* cbx33 is distraught about the vandalism
<cbx33> mice getting ripped out
<pips1_> cbx33, yeah, scary
<stelis> We fitted optical mice and case locks
<stelis> And that stopped it
<cbx33> stelis....think we havn't
<cbx33> they "rip" the mouse off the end of the lead
<stelis> We've had a couple of those
<stelis> The bottom line is that some of them are very, very bored and fed up
<cbx33> yeh
<pips1_> yep
<pips1_> consumer gen
<cbx33> but it's no excuse
<willvdl> cbx33, we had mouseballs stolen by the dozens
<willvdl> they make good marbles
<cbx33> willvdl, oh yeh...
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<cbx33> but have you had soldering irons on optical sensors?
<cbx33> ours is sometimes just blatent distruction
<lguerra> hi all
<stelis> cbx33: Soldering irons?
<lguerra> RichEd: ping
<willvdl> optical mice solve that problem but then the kids try and blind each other with the lasers
<stelis> Electronics lab?
<cbx33> tech yeh
<jsgotangco> hahahaha
<RichEd> hi lguerra ...
<lguerra> how are you?
* jsgotangco notes to use trackballs instead
<willvdl> cbx33, you keep soldering irons and mice in the same room?
<cbx33> wilvdl, it was a tech room
<stelis> Well the mice aren't staying :)
<cbx33> now insome rooms we take the mice back at the end of each lesson
<cbx33> keep them in a box
<cbx33> that's how bad it is
<stelis> I guess that what it comes down to is that they don't want to be there
<willvdl> ah. I do remember blowing up an old 286 at varisty. It was fun but I don't publically condone or advocate such actions
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> hehehe
<stelis> You can't run Linux on a 286 :)
<cbx33> :(
<stelis> So I think it's forgivab;e :)
<cbx33> oooh i dunno
<pips1_> cu l8r guys
<BonBonTheJon> willvdl: how did you make it blow up
<willvdl> BonBonTheJon, it involved high voltages, a large ceramic capacitor and possible some spilled tea. I'm not going to give out the exact recipe as children might be listening
<jsgotangco> yeah
<cbx33> willvdl.....oooh.....
<jsgotangco> might give me an idea for next week
<cbx33> I'd like to try that with a graphics card someday
<BonBonTheJon> willvdl: I''ve seen a video where someone removed a heatsink and made a processor explode, but 286 didnt need a heatsink
<willvdl> cbx33, edgerton's boomer ... it's way cool
<willvdl> let's jsut say the 286 needed prompting
<cbx33> willvdl....you gotta share that with me
<jsgotangco> when i was in school, we used to have comptuers that used casette tapes for storage
<BonBonTheJon> lol
<jsgotangco> man that was a long time ago
<willvdl> a fantastic visual display of Faraday's Law, Ampere's Law and a hole in the roof
<BonBonTheJon> i still love my commodore 64
<jsgotangco> well nothing beats the commodore 64 in educational content
<cbx33> hehehe
<stelis> Was the BBC Micro available outside the UK?
<willvdl> yip
<stelis> I loved the tutle robot
<willvdl> the zx spectrum was big here
<jsgotangco> i used to have a trs-80 portable before
<jsgotangco> it had and 8-liner LCD
<jsgotangco> and ran on dry cells
<cbx33> heheh
<jsgotangco> the poor unit was used to death
<willvdl> I remember building one from raw components. It could control a sprinkler system.
<stelis> Was that a clamshell?
* jsgotangco wonders if using a commodore64 emulator in edubuntu and load all those nice educational images would be a good idea
<stelis> Or an all-in-one unit?
<willvdl> jsgotangco, or just port them?
<jsgotangco> nahh..just a keypad and lcd in one rectangular box
<stelis> In all seriousness, DOS emulation would be a big deal
<cbx33> heheheh
<jsgotangco> port the actual games?
<willvdl> yip
<cbx33> jsgotangco: go go go
<willvdl> in SA we have loads of legacy DOS educational s/w
<jsgotangco> well some of them are not exactly free software to begin with
<willvdl> that is actually quite good apparently
<stelis> willvdl: That's true here
<willvdl> jsgotangco, the developers have probably all died of old age
<stelis> Machine control stuff only started to migrate recently-ish
<jsgotangco> that's true
<jsgotangco> willvdl: the idea just sprang up a few days ago at work for that
<willvdl> porting them?
<jsgotangco> nahh..just load up the images in an emulator
<cbx33> is there no emulator for linux?
<jsgotangco> oh there is
<willvdl> jsgotangco, btw I'm meeting with mindset next week so if there is anything you'd like to find out etc. drop me an email
<jsgotangco> willvdl: will do make a list thanks for the notic
<jsgotangco> e
<jsgotangco> cbx33: its called VICE
<cbx33> oooh
<jsgotangco> well the platform (c64) has tons of educational stuff, but also tons of time wasters (games)
<willvdl> not time-wasters...they build keyboard skills, response times and that killer instinct required for military services
<stelis> Making them wickedly accurate with laser mice :)
<cbx33> jsgotangco: could we shipo it?
<cbx33> or start porting stuff
<cbx33> how useful is useful?
<willvdl> shipo?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: well you can start looking at the 10,000+ catalog
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> paid for?
<cbx33> or OSS?
<jsgotangco> nahhh
<jsgotangco> some of them actually allow you to distribute the software
<jsgotangco> but they retain copyright (obviously)
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> do you think ti's worth looking into?
<cbx33> when you say use ful, how useful...
<jsgotangco> depends on the software
<jsgotangco> ive seen software for it that involved other stuff in education, say life scienes
<cbx33> we could include them for edgy + 1 and the best of the best could be ported for edgy + 2
<willvdl> and presumably the ontext of the educational environment it's applicable to
<willvdl> cbx33, or include them in an "education content marketplace"
<jsgotangco> as long as the kids don't discover that they can playe M.U.L.E. and Maniac Mansion
<cbx33> MANIAC MANSION
<willvdl> or that I discover I can play them :P
<cbx33> jsgotangco: http://www.progbox.co.uk/thesis/
<jsgotangco> defender of the crown and hardball
<jsgotangco> haha
<pips1> hey ogra do you have a tip.. I am still trying to get my network config to work... I tried to disable dhcp on the hw firewall, but then the edubuntu server complains that network autoconfiguration failed since it couldn't find a dhcp. I looks as if my firewall is blocking the dhcp from the router ?! ack. Should I try to disable dhcp on the router and enable it on the hw firewall instead? will that work?
<jsgotangco> wow
<ogra> sure, that would work, but can you set up a different ip range on the firewall ?
<cbx33> jsgotangco: ?
<ogra> the 192.168.0 net will make testing the final Cd difficult for you
<jsgotangco> i didnt know matlab can do that
<cbx33> heheh it can with me at the helm...
<cbx33> I had to write my open midi file importer
<cbx33> check out the pdf for complete code listings
<pips1> I think so, yes. I tried to set the hw firewall to 192.168.2.0, but then I couldn't connect to anything anymore
<pips1> ogra, can you suggest an ip for the hw firewall that might work?
<pips1> (my router is on 192.168.1.1)
<ogra> make it 192.168.1.5 or something and let it serve  192.168.1.XXX for dhcp
<pips1> ah
<jsgotangco> cbx33: i was looking into this tool to create interactive fiction
<jsgotangco> i thought its something that can be useful in an education sense, it might have been done before though, i wouldn't know
<cbx33> which tool?
<jsgotangco> i can't recall i have to look into my bookmarks
<jsgotangco> its relatively new
<jsgotangco> if youre familiar with the SCUMM engine, its like that
<cbx33> oooh...cool
<cbx33> ahh
<willvdl> cbx33, looking at the thesis, are you using cepstra? LPC?
<cbx33> willvdl ahhh an audio man...
<jsgotangco> hehhe
* jsgotangco uh-ph
<jsgotangco> uh-oh
<cbx33> it was a simple FFT, tbh cepstra is a term I remember from my Applied DSP lectures
<willvdl> did a lot of that stuff for my thesis: wavelets, AR synthesis, LPC: traditional tools used in voice recognition
<cbx33> but I confess I have forgotten much of it now
<cbx33> ahhh excellet
<jsgotangco> there are thingamajigs like that for sound????
<cbx33> willvdl I hacked up a quick speech recognition script...it was able to get the numbers from one to ten
<cbx33> I stored cheap spectrums
<cbx33> and it matched over frequency content, much like the rest of my thesis used...
<cbx33> if you find the section on MAGs it took successive snapshots of MAGs
<jsgotangco> brb switching to dapper
<cbx33> over the sound sample nd then matched those to a preset sample of MAGS
<cbx33> nothing spectacular like looking at the ....oh what are they called....the parts of speech
<cbx33> argh I've forgotten so much
<willvdl> cbx33, quick speech recog is surprisingly easy
<willvdl> phonemes?
<cbx33> willvdl, so you know all about the 3D wave equation then?
<cbx33> that's the one
<cbx33> we did a quick lecture on ti once, but nothing great
<cbx33> didn't get a bad mark for that old thesis ;)
<willvdl> awesome. good memories
<cbx33> most of the coding was done on the bus
<cbx33> yeh indeed
<willvdl> loved matlab too but found that LAPAC was 4 times faster
<cbx33> never used LAPAC
<cbx33> thought now Iwould have uysed python
<willvdl> did it originally in fortran 90: uber-fast
<cbx33> python is all gooey
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> willvdl...see I never knew you were into all that kinda thing
<cbx33> ;)
<willvdl> fortran=fastest numerical processing language on earth...still
<willvdl> I lectured in DSP for a while :)
<cbx33> WOW
<cbx33> so you can actually judge how bad my thesis is ;)
* cbx33 slips willvdl a $20 bill
<willvdl> nah :)
<cbx33> I went to the ISVR in the UK
<cbx33> supposedly a world renowned sound place
<willvdl> Univ Stellenbosch. Got a world reknowned voice guy
<willvdl> he invented ORED for reducing higher-order markov chains to first order...potential nobel prize in the waiting
<cbx33> wow
<willvdl> I gotto run, going to be late for a 3:30 meeting
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> bye willvdl 
<willvdl> ciao. must continue this convo sometime
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> we can make a realtime version of my code in python
<highvoltage> willvdl: 3:30 meetings in cape town on a friday afternoon!?
* highvoltage shakes head
<willvdl> joburg :)
<highvoltage> willvdl: well, hope you don't have to go through traffic, at least :)
<willvdl> it involves drinks fortunately but don't tell Richard
* highvoltage 's lips are sealed
<willvdl> eeek the logs!
<willvdl> ciao folks
<highvoltage> RichEd: /clear /clear!
<highvoltage> ciao willvdl 
* RichEd notes the indiscretion in his big black book
* RichEd is out for a bit - need a plumber to fix my geyser
<bddebian> Howdy
* pips1 is back from his adventures in network appliance configuration land
<stelis> Did you beat the DHCP servers into shape?
<pips1> nope
<stelis> Are they still fighting then?
<pips1> yep
<stelis> :(
<pips1> the main problem is that there seems to be some insane timeout in place that keeps disconnecting my access to the router / hw firewall, before I even finished configuring them...
<stelis> You could temporarily configure your laptop with a static address in the right range
<pips1> appart from struggling with things like "oh, I didn't realise that you need to hold the reset button for 10 secs for it to work" etc
<pips1> :)
<stelis> Yeah
<stelis> I usually hold the button in until my finger starts hurt a bit
<stelis> So that they get the message...
<stelis> Networking can be frustrating
<pips1> I now decided that I need to print out the different config screens.
<pips1> yeah
<stelis> Unfortunately all the vendors use different screens
<pips1> grumble
<stelis> So the chances of meeting someone else with the same is low
<stelis> I usually set my laptop with a static address in the right range to connect to a router for configuring it
<stelis> And then switch it over to DHCP
<pips1> I was aiming to disable dhcp on the router and have it enabled on the firewall and set its dhcp range to another range, from 192.168.0.x to 192.168.1.xxx or smth, like ogra suggested. However, if I disable dhcp on the router, I can't even access the firewall admin interface anymore?!
<pips1> ah
<pips1> well, i think your suggestion for setting a static ip on the laptop for a start is good :)
<stelis> It avoids the chicken-and-egg thing
<pips1> question is: what static ip should i choose?
<stelis> Any will work
<stelis> Provided that no other device is transmitting on it
<stelis> So 137 is as good as any
<stelis> The DHCP probably hasn't done enough assignments to get to that  number :)
<pips1> ok, I got two laptops here, one for irc, the other to test...
<pips1> I just did #ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.99
<pips1> and now I can't access my router on 192.168.1.1 anymore ?!
<pips1> huh?
<stelis> Different networks
<stelis> It'll need a default gateway to go from 192.168.0
<stelis> To 192.168.1
<stelis> Because they are separate subnets
<pips1> well, the router is on 192.168.1.1 network, and the firewall is on 192.168.0.1 network. the setup is internet - router - firewall - hub - laptops
<stelis> OK
<pips1> how do I enable access to my router in that case?
<pips1> should i simply choose the static address 192.169.1.99 instead?
<stelis> Hmm
<pips1> can i set a gateway on my laptop to go with my static 192.168.0.1 address?
<stelis> Does your router have a regular Ethernet socket?
<pips1> erm, i think the answer is yes
<stelis> Sorry, I'm confused by the router and the firewall being separate devices
<stelis> Is the firewall a computer rather than an appliance?
<stelis> The gateway is the device on a particular that forwards packets to other networks
<pips1> yes, it's confusing, did I mention that its actually Device A=[adsl modem+router]  and Device B=[hw firewall+8-port switch] 
<Burgundavia> stelis: please join #ubuntu-directory
<Burgundavia> and got a link to your spec?
<stelis> Burgundavia:  http://www.elsn.org/main/LdapServer
<stelis> This is my private MoinMoin
<stelis> I didn't want to dump it directly without checking with someone
<stelis> Things seem to be happening quickly
<Burgundavia> stelis: the -directory team is working on this spec https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easy-ldap-server
<Burgundavia> so can you copy your stuff to that wiki page?
<stelis> Will do - I'll move replies over to ubuntu-directory
<stelis> pips1: What I was thinking
<stelis> Was that you could plug your laptop directly into the firewall
<stelis> To do the configuration
<pips1> stelis, excellent spec write-up!!
<pips1> this is my no. 1 feature I have been hoping for ever since the inception of edubuntu.. :)
<pips1> ok, back to my network prob
<pips1> so.. stelis, you are saying you want to cut the hub out of the loop, to make things easier? 
<pips1> stelis, ping?
<stelis> Yes
<pips1> ^^^ ?
<stelis> You have four networks at play, I think 
<pips1> four?!
<stelis> My head...
<stelis> Internet/ISP
<stelis> The shared network between router and firewall, 
<stelis> The main private network
<stelis> And the dedicated Edubuntu network
<pips1> right
<pips1> well, the last one isn't up and running yet, but that the end goal..
<stelis> Each requires a gateway device that sits on that network, and another
<stelis> To pass packets
<pips1> got you
<stelis> I'm trying to think through this slowly
<stelis> Too many hours at the screen
<pips1> :-/
<stelis> The ideal thing would probably be reduce the number of networks
<stelis> You need a router to connect your own devices to the ISP
<pips1> well, the only network i can afford to take out is the router-firewall one
<stelis> It would make things simpler
<stelis> Remember that NAT protect your internal network from the Internet 
<pips1> yes, I agree. however, then I will loose out on the 8-port switch that is built-in with the firewall. I need the switch to distribute the internet traffic inside my house, for my wife's mac...
<stelis> Ah
<pips1> :-/
<pips1> I *could* swap the firewall/switch for a simple switch i have at my office. (but not right now)
<stelis> OK.
<stelis> I would kill for a whiteboard
<stelis> They make network stuff much easier to work out
<ubotu> Announcement from my owner (Seveas): TheFridge
<pips1> stelis, I think you should just copy your spec over to the ubuntu wiki, they will be happy to edit the use cases, if they think they are too long. I think its an excellent spec and hope that this can be done for the feisty release.. :-)
<stelis> pips1:
<stelis> I've copied it
<pips1> good stuff
<stelis> This is pretty big project
<pips1> yeah
<stelis> I'm hoping that Canonical will work on porting Fedora Directory Server
<stelis> Which solves a lot of this
<pips1> fingers crossed
<stelis> Yep
<cbx33> afternoon all
<stelis> We desperately need this
<stelis> Afternoon
* pips1 tries to beam a whiteboard to stelis
<pips1> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> a shared whiteboard would be great for edubuntu don;t you think?
<pips1> meet my personal hero stelis, author of the LDAP spec
<cbx33> stelis - dude you rock
<stelis> I haven't volunteered to implement any of this!
<pips1> sure
<cbx33> heheh
* cbx33 has to write the SCP spec later
<stelis> SCP ?
<pips1> but the info in the spec is already a good contribution
<cbx33> Student Control Panel
<stelis> Cool
<stelis> What's currently there is a nice start
<cbx33> If anyone has some ideas/suggestsions for SCP...I'll be putting the spec together over the weekend
<cbx33> hoping ogra will have some time for a chat about it
<pips1> do you think we can get my network setup figured out now, or should we aim to do it another time, when it's not friday night and your seeing everything at least double?
<stelis> pips1: :)
<stelis> PM me if you like
<cbx33> pips1, what's up with ti now?
<cbx33> I'll give it a crack
<stelis> I can be around Sunday evening
<pips1> cbx33, I have a rather complex setup with four networks... as stelis properly observed
<pips1> stelis Internet/ISP
<pips1> stelis The shared network between router and firewall, 
<pips1> stelis The main private network
<pips1> stelis And the dedicated Edubuntu network
<stelis> I'm trying to convince him to slim down a littel :)
<cbx33> crikey
<cbx33> slim down dude
<pips1> heh
<cbx33> and what is not working?
<cbx33> DHCP?
<stelis> Thinking about it, we have a similar arrangement at work
<cbx33> stelis, me too
<cbx33> just don;t tell pips1 
<pips1> the firewall is using the same ip range that edubuntu ltsp needs...
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> pips1, .... to aid in helping
<pips1> read: *the firewall's dhcp
<cbx33> do you have a diagram
<pips1> nope
<cbx33> I may have to pop out in a while.....but if you mail me a diagram...that could help...
<cbx33> just a quick one of ip ranges and dhcp/firewall/server locations
<cbx33> it's hard to visualise a network layout
<cbx33> well...I confess I find it hard to
<cbx33> and I'm a network manager
<cbx33> :0
<pips1> ha, yep
<pips1> I've never done a network diagram before, but I could try, i guess
<cbx33> just a simple one
<cbx33> it'll help you out I gaurantee it
<cbx33> I know exactly what my network is llike now
<cbx33> cos i memorised the drawing
<jsgotangco> you've never done a network diagram before?
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> dang
<pips1> heh
* cbx33 drew his out all nicely on the computer....heheh
<cbx33> then I chagned the whoole infrastructure
<cbx33> :p
<pips1> yeah, it's probably better to start scribbling it on paper and scanning that in
<pips1> and once everything is clear, you can always make an nice one
<stelis> Just writing an inventory of what you have is a good place to start
<stelis> i.e. devices and network ranges
<pips1> even better start, you're right
<pips1> in a plain text file
<stelis> cbx33: WRT to the SCP, perhaps post an email with your thoughts to one of the lists? I'll try to reply, and maybe some other people will chip in thoughts as well.
<pips1> good suggestion
<stelis> The place that I worked had a classroom thin client network
<stelis> The product is dead
<stelis> But I may be able to find some docs and things
<pips1> even if you might get lots of "this would be nice" that don't really relate to actual real *needs*. but you might get some input from people who have experience with commercial apps
<stelis> Which could be mined for ideas
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> pips1, yeh just a simple sketch like those...hackers challenge books have ;)
* cbx33 shutsup
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> right I'm off for a while
<cbx33> bbl
<pips1> cu
<stelis> Cheers
<pips1> stelis, have you used the collaborative real time text editor 'gobby' before?
<pips1> I'm dying to try it out
<pips1> my network problem would be an interesting use case to try it :-)
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> how are you
<LaserJock> I'm going to die :-)
<cbx33> oh
<LaserJock> phew, I just found somebody to do some chemistry demonstrations
<LaserJock> we are having a Chemistry Department open house today
<LaserJock> and I'm in charge of organizing some chemistry demos
<cbx33> coool
<LaserJock> but it turns out *I* have to be presenting a poster and giving tours of my lab
<cbx33> so why are you goin to die
<cbx33> planning to drink some H2SO4
<cbx33> ?
<LaserJock> so I need to find some people to actually do the demos
<LaserJock> no
<cbx33> heheh cool.......you'll love that
<LaserJock> we thought about blowing up some H2 and O2 :-)
<cbx33> nice idea
<cbx33> ooh oooh ooh
<cbx33> do sonoluninescence
<cbx33> sonoluminescence
<cbx33> sorry spelt it wrong first time round
<LaserJock> well, I've got a 2 hr meeting in 15 min
<cbx33> go on dude
<cbx33> do sonoluminescence
<cbx33> it's well cool
<LaserJock> which gives me 2 hrs after that to get the demos set up, and a poster printed out and the lab cleaned up
<cbx33> so it'#s today?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> :-)
<cbx33> oh...yeh youre' gonna die :p
<cbx33> ack...i gotta dash...getting ready for my brother-in-laws LAN party tomorrow
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> #see ya later
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<LaserJock> I have a LInux install fest tomorrow :(
* cbx33 is gonna showcase beryl
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> later dude, hope it goes well
<LaserJock> I need to burn some Edgy RC cds
<LaserJock> cya
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<tideline> I have a strange question regarding the handbook, I checked a copy out, but I would like to know how I can test it locally?
<tideline> oh, Hi all
<cbx33> evenin all
<juliux> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey juliux 
<juliux> cbx33, how are you?
<cbx33> yeh I'm good
<cbx33> how are you
<tideline> hi all, I asked a question earlier, but no one answered it, please forgive the repost
<tideline> how would I test the handbook locally?
<cbx33> hmm....
<cbx33> normally rhere is a script to run it
<tideline> or is there a way to test it locally
<cbx33> you can test individual pages
<cbx33> by running yelp page_name
<tideline> cbx33, ok tried that - Thanks
<cbx33> did it work
<tideline> well it would have if I didn't screw up the xml 
<tideline> yup its working now
<cbx33> heheh
<tideline> is the TODO list on the wiki up to date?
<tideline> I guess technically it's called the taks list
<highvoltage> cbx33: do you have a very up-to-date edubuntu? if so, can you please try running gcompris?
<cbx33> I don't here
<cbx33> hm....oh
<highvoltage> ok. anyone else here running Edgy?
<cbx33> wait I have a fairly up to date
<tideline> I am
<cbx33> you want a todays uptodate?
<highvoltage> cbx33: anything after 17 Oct
<cbx33> tideline, are you able to test?
<highvoltage> tideline: can you please check if you can run gcompris?
<cbx33> I can get that ./..
<cbx33> I have a 14 I think
<cbx33> I can upgrade
<highvoltage> ok cool :)
<pygi> highvoltage: I can try
<tideline> I am running it in a parallels machine, havent tried it in there
<highvoltage> gcompris is broken on the 17/10 build. it just auto-logs you out of gnome when you run it :(
<highvoltage> pygi: that would be great
<cbx33> highvoltage, shout if you need it
<cbx33> I'll not update till you say so
<cbx33> seeing as it'll prbaoly be arnoud 200Mb update
<highvoltage> cbx33: ok, I will
<pygi> highvoltage: all working fine
<pygi> I don't have todays newest update tho, so I'm doing it now
<highvoltage> pygi: when did you last update? after 17/10?
<pygi> highvoltage: yup
<highvoltage> ok cool.
* highvoltage runs it under a terminal and pipes output to a file (hopefully it will catch the error before my session is closed)
<pygi> highvoltage: k, let us see the error :)
<highvoltage> hmmm.. it just complains about en_ZA.UTF-8 locales, then it gives a warning about gnome.canvas being deprecated
<highvoltage> I'll include it in my testing report
<highvoltage> tideline: is yours working fine?
<tideline> highvoltage, this is a new install havent installed gcomoris yet
<highvoltage> tideline: ok, if you do install gcompris, please let me know if it works
<tideline> highvoltage, is there a gooc how to? I can do it right now - Im just at work 
<pygi> tideline: sudo apt-get install gcompris? :)
<highvoltage> tideline: ok, no worries, I thought you were in a position to test now
<tideline> highvoltage, I have a new install with an update
<tideline> pygi, I thought there might be a little more to it than that
<Dheeraj_ku> Does any body know any good java (j2ee) support irc channel?
<pygi> Dheeraj_ku: #java !
<Dheeraj_ku> i tried but it is giving this msg
<Dheeraj_ku>  #java ##java :Forwarding to another channel
<Dheeraj_ku> * ##java :You need to be identified to join that channel
<pygi> well, identify yourself ;)
<stgraber> then register on freenode, and join when identified
<Dheeraj_ku>  need to be identified? wat does it really mean?
<pygi> Dheeraj_ku: register on freenode ,then identify
<stgraber>  /msg nickserv help register
<pygi> Dheeraj_ku: this is not a java neither nick registration help channel btw :P
<Dheeraj_ku> u know if i will ask the same question on # nick registration they may give same reply. this is not a java channel :D
<pygi> I dont understand you :p
<Dheeraj_ku> I am already registered on free node with id Dheeraj_k but i forget how to log in :)
<cbx33>  /msg nickserv identify
<cbx33> the ya pass
<cbx33>  /msg nickserv identify pss
<Dheeraj_ku> # nick registration  = # nickRegistration  channel.lol
<Dheeraj_ku> thanx :)
<pygi> highvoltage: if you want, I can reboot with newest update?
<tideline> highvoltage, I installed gcompris, when I run it I get logged out - pretty much the same as you
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pygi> highvoltage: ping  ? :)
<highvoltage> pygi: pong
<pygi> highvoltage: in case you havent seen :P
<pygi> <pygi> highvoltage: if you want, I can reboot with newest update?
<pygi> <tideline> highvoltage, I installed gcompris, when I run it I get logged out - pretty much the same as you
<highvoltage> eesh
<highvoltage> pygi: in that case, I'd appreciate it very much if you could reboot and test
<pygi> highvoltage: oki, brb in sec
<tideline> highvoltage, is there a paste bin somewhere?  I will paste the error I get in messages
<highvoltage> !paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<pygi> highvoltage: confirming all works marvelous
<tideline> highvoltage, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27544
<highvoltage> tideline: and when did you say you last updated?
<tideline> highvoltage, I got the image this am and updated about 30 min ago
<highvoltage> tideline: ok
<highvoltage> pygi: and you?
<pygi> highvoltage: right now? :P
<highvoltage> ok, seems like it was a bug that's recently been fixed. I'll re-check tomorrow morning after an rsync.
<highvoltage> thanks pygi and tideline!
<tideline> k
<pygi> highvoltage: I don't think so =) I haven't seen such problem :P
<pygi> and I was updating & testing every day :P
<tideline> my problem may come from running inside parallels
<highvoltage> pygi: ok. strange that tideline is getting it too then :/
<highvoltage> tideline: aah, ok. so perhaps our problems are completely unrelated then.
<tideline> I can test on another computer when I get home
<tideline> is the handbook working out of the C or the orig or the working dir?
<lucasvo> http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/tux_case_01.jpg &  http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/tux_case_02.jpg :)
<lucasvo> my brother just did this for me :)
<stgraber> Woo, that's really good looking :)
* cbx33 just met sladen
<highvoltage> cool :)
<highvoltage> ah yes, he's a londonner too, isn't he?
<cbx33> hehe...he needed a soldering iron
* highvoltage likes the quiter grub
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> goodnight #edubuntu!
<cbx33> good night highvoltage 
<pygi> night highvoltage 
<juliux> good night highvoltage 
<tideline> night
<highvoltage> night cbx33 and pygi and juliux and tideline!
<cbx33> ogra, I should have my key signed soon
<whiprush> hey you guys check this out? http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=280193
* whiprush runs into the story on the edubuntu site.
<whiprush> of course you have. :D
<pygi> :P
<nixternal> i better not hear anyone laugh at the "Fawn" name anymore...it is ingenious
<nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27566/
<nixternal> that backs it up right there ;)
* nixternal hides
<vectra> I don't see a GUI tool to configure GDM. How do I set an automatic login for the 8 year old?
<Burgwork> vectra: it is there
<Burgwork> system>admin>login screen
<vectra> yup, I'm just blind today :-p
#edubuntu 2006-10-21
<sbalneav_> Evening all
<freet15> anybody ?
<highvoltage> morning all
<highvoltage> what is the latest image I should rsync to for testing this morning?
<freet15> highvoltage: hi
<highvoltage> hi freet15 
<freet15>  I want to add some hotkeycode for my notebook, so I use "showkey --keycode" to get the keycode...
<freet15> but it doesn`t work.... I had change the /etc/init.d/hotkey-setup to match, and add the keycode(Keycodes are shown by showkey --keycode.) in /usr/share/keycode-setup/.....hk
<freet15> highvoltage:Did you have done this before ?
<highvoltage> freet15: hmmm.. that might be a better question for #ubuntu
<highvoltage> freet15: I've done it a long time ago on slackware a few laptops back, I don't know what the correct way is to do it on Ubuntu though
<freet15> highvoltage:Thanks  anyway :) I have searched some mail-list or website to read, if I can`t get usefull infomation, I must ask somebody at#Ubuntu
<sky123> Hello. I am new "admin" of sorts to the edubuntu world.  I just became involved with the world of charter schools, and thought it would be a really cool idea to use Zope for CM. Anyone doing this with multiple sites?? 
<sky123> Alo Id like to discuss the addition of grading, attendance, calendar...etc...any ideas??
<sky123> How are you folks dealing with the whole grading...for teachers issue??
<freet15> cool ~
<lucasvo> sky123: there is a tool called Schooltool whihc afaik supports grading
<lucasvo> I'd also look at moodle
<lucasvo> sky123: I haven't used it though
<sky123> lucasvo: sorry for not responding sooner...will do 
<sky123> have you tried the thin client??
<lucasvo> sky123: yes
<lucasvo> I use one right now
<sky123> and what kind of server class do you need to support say 12 pcs??
<sky123> i know it recommends xeon....but that is like a p4 or higher right??
<sky123> ie...for pxe boot etc
<sky123> any recommendations?? 
<stgraber> ogra: ping
<highvoltage> sky123: a P4 should be fine for 12 PC's. if it has hyperthreading it's also a big +
<highvoltage> sky123: and you'd want abot 1.5GB RAM for 12 PC's. a bit less could also work if you use Xfce instead of Gnome.
<sky123> okay.. sounds like a good plan...but with respect to the actual pcs...being used by kids....the saving of docs etc...do you folks usually block that or use a repository of some sort... 
<highvoltage> a document repository?
<sky123> Also this grading thing....minus schooltool and Bessie the Annihlator...there is severe lack of a good grading, attendance,etc tool out ther.. 
* highvoltage hasn't seen Bessie before
<stgraber> I'm installing a daily build of Edubuntu for testing, is there anything else than : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuTesting I should try ?
<sky123> highvoltage: ie using the PXE boot server with NFS or something to store the students documents... 
<highvoltage> sky123: the problem with those kinds of tools is that it's 'unsexy', and very few people are willing to volunteer on tools like that, which is exactly why Mark Shuttleworth is sponsoring Schooltool development
<sky123> highvoltage: considering it is a thin client on the students end..once they type say a paper...where do they save??
<sky123> highvoltage:  your previous comment about the school tool... I fully agree. 
<highvoltage> sky123: oh I see what you mean, when you boot to the server, your entire session actually runs on the server, so all files are stored on the server without using NFS, since OpenOffice, etc is actually running on the server, not on the client
<highvoltage> sky123: it's a bit of a strange concept to grok if you haven't tried it yet, but as soon as you boot up a thin client and poke around a bit, it becomes very easy to understand.
<sky123> highvoltage: I used to be a former high school teacher in a "project based" school...and the need for those tools is immense.....the one that people use now is for apple...and its client server as well....while powerful its such a "closed" product...I am very very interested in making a contribution in this area...
<sky123> highvoltage: thnx for the clarification 
<sky123> :) 
<highvoltage> sky123: great! well, you seem to be well aware of schooltool, have you joined the schooltool mailing list yet? that would be a good way to get involved.
<highvoltage> sky123: I think they desperately need more people that understand education well that can make suggestions and give feedback on improvement, you sound like you could contribute well there.
<sky123> highvoltage: not yet...but I will be sure to do this....to be quite honest...I have now dedicated a significant portion of my life to this effort.. of integrating tools such as samba,wikis.v-bulletin,schooltool, to make a "package" of sorts for small schools.. I just think the social constructivist nature of these tools have tremendous power. Throw that in with tools like asterisk and you have a complete solution 
<highvoltage> sky123: absolutely :)
<highvoltage> sky123: if you just compare the current loose open source tools that's available now to all the tools that collectively existed 10-12 years ago, then the future certainly looks bright
<sky123> highvoltage: I will definitely be on that mailing list...in addition my wife is a teacher....and does the "this what our stuff does now" and this is what we need. 
<highvoltage> sky123: great. You might also want to speak to RichEd from Edubuntu, I think he'll appreciate your educational input too.
<sky123> highvoltage: 110% agree. As a teacher I struggled to understand this stuff...then I quit my job, and dwelved into linux for the past 12 years.. 
<sky123> now i want to give back.. 
<sky123> :) 
<highvoltage> sky123: there's also a channel called #ubuntu-education, you might be interested in that, there's also a mailing list for it at http://lists.ubuntu.com
<sky123> nice. 
<highvoltage> :)
<sky123> I have a bunch of concepts and ideas... 
<sky123> for example - The states in the US have standards... and what people are attempting to do is to use the standards across various subject areas to create lesson etc... 
<highvoltage> sky123: I also work on a project in South Africa where we install open source labs in schools, and create a whole management and support system around their computer labs
<highvoltage> sky123: perhaps your insight and experience will be helpful to us too
<sky123> so....one the concepts are tied to a search engine.. and returns concepts....and also will look against lessons created against an edubuntu server...etc..etc...
<sky123> :) 
<sky123> stuff like that 
<sky123> Absolutely....whatever this community needs...lemme know :) 
<sky123> it is by and far the most important project i have worked on 
<highvoltage> great :)
<highvoltage> sky123: where are you located?
<highvoltage> US?
<sky123> highvoltage: just read your comment...that is exactly along the lines for what I am attempting to do with a friend...I live in Los Angeles
<sky123> highvoltage: Just to give you an idea....many schools ie charters are opening here...they cater to students are not able to "function" in schools with 40 to 1 ratios 
<sky123> so they are opening charters with   social constructivist nature 
<sky123> and have their own governance structure.. 
<sky123> this stuff is absolutely perfect in those environments 
<highvoltage> interesting.
<highvoltage> there in LA specifically, or California, or US?
<sky123> the idea is to figure out how to directly support these type of orginizations which promote learning through projects, induction etc.. 
<sky123> highvoltage: specifically San Dimas California...near Pomona...about 40 mins east of Los Angeles.....lol 
<sky123> highvoltage: as for the schools they are now EVERYWHERE..in the us 
<highvoltage> heh :)
<sky123> see if this sounds like linux to you 
<highvoltage> sky123: are you going to visit us regularly in #edubuntu, I'd really like for you to speak to RichEd.
<sky123> there is an educational theory called the Zone of proximal development where a community of learners works together to advance their cognitive abilites...
<highvoltage> I'm not that clued up on education per se
<sky123> lol....that is Linux!....except they call it ZPD in education... lol
<highvoltage> but I have lots of ideas where it can be better.
<highvoltage> ZPD?
<highvoltage> oh I see.. (missed a line)
<sky123> the idea would be to inject directly into these founded educational theories and give real meat to why Linux should/would support such things.. 
<highvoltage> sky123: I'd be very interested in that theory for the tuxlab project
<sky123> communal learning which now huge in the states 
<sky123> yeah....hang on sec and Ill pull up the theorist's name...he's Russian... 
<sky123> actually one guy you need to look up is LeonTev
<sky123> the other is .. Vygotsky 
<sky123> read up on that...very very cool stuff 
<sky123> google search should be sufficient :) 
<highvoltage> ok
<sky123> Like you and I both re-iterated...the tools are all there....they just need to "packaged"
* highvoltage gets back to testing edubuntu pre-release testing
<highvoltage> sky123: yes, that's what my dayjob is largely about :)
<sky123> highvoltage: okay..wont keep you thanx 
<sky123> :) 
<sky123> nice 
<sky123> okay so I met the right person 
<sky123> This is very very cool...We definitely need to keep in touch. 
<highvoltage> sky123: we've got a package together that largely work here in South Africa, we'll adapt it to other countries and make it more generic after time
<highvoltage> yep. I'm nearly always in this channel, so it would be cool if you can hang around and meet the other people too.
<sky123> highvoltage: great....will do 
<highvoltage> there's a lot of the 'right' people that hang out here.
<sky123> the grading,attendance,calendering tool is HUGE...the best example of one that teachers like is by Apple though its called PowerSchool 
<sky123> if someone even makes a "clone" of it..that will more than suffice. 
<sky123> Just of curiosity the school tool "beta version" and source code...where can I get that??
<lucasvo> isn't it hosted at launchpad?
<lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/products/schooltool
<sky123> lucasvo: ill have to look there...the beta version seems to have some of the functionality that I asked on here for...but Id like to look at the source code and see what can be done... 
<sky123> :) 
<lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/people/vcs-imports/+branch/schooltool/main
<sky123> which i guess is NOT the stable release that just includes the calendering??
<sky123> ahhhh....nice...cool 
<sky123> lucasvo: nice 
<sky123> thnx
<sky123> okay...looks like i need at least a few hours of sleep....you guys have been awesome and will see you here a little later.. 
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm installing a daily build of Edubuntu for testing, is there anything else than : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuTesting I should try ?
<lucasvo> cya sky123 
<highvoltage> stgraber: well, anything you can think of. I suggest you try openening every program on the menu's and see if funny things happen
<highvoltage> especially gcompris, I've had some unconfirmed problems with that
<highvoltage> I'm also having some trouble with the installer. I have two network cards installed, and both are detected, but the installer tells me that it can't find a controller to configure dhcpd on
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> I will active my onboard network card to check if I have the same issue with two network cards
<highvoltage> great!
<stgraber> hmm, first problem, there is only one Switzerland keyboard
<stgraber> and it selects the swiss german one
<stgraber> but I have a swiss french one :)
<highvoltage> *sigh*
<highvoltage> I can't understand why the world needs *so many* keyboard layouts
<stgraber> dunno, but mine is missing :)
<highvoltage> :)
<stgraber> Usually I have swiss french and swiss german, but this time I only have Switzerland :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: did you try to manually choose a layout? perhaps there's one listed there?
<jsgotangco> yo!
<stgraber> hi
<stgraber> other strange, thing, I can't access the "Configure the keyboard" option in the installer
<stgraber> It send me back to my Configure networking page
<stgraber> ok, so two bugs : 1) Swiss french keyboard is missing (in the F3 option at least), 2) It's impossible to access the "Configure the keyboard" option of the installer
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco!
<stgraber> do you know where the keymaps are on the CD ? They aren't in /usr/share/keymaps/
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: hey dude! how's it going, i see you've added a news page in the cms!
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yes, finally!
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: now that I've got internet at home I can get the news flowing again
<jsgotangco> hmm my sched is getting sane nowadays as well
<highvoltage> going for 13 months without internet is a pain. I think I'll still be talking about those 13 dark months in old age home one day :)
<highvoltage> mine is also getting saner. and summer holidays are on their way. yippee!
<jsgotangco> hey you had GPRS
<jsgotangco> hehe
<highvoltage> then I'll have time + Internet
<highvoltage> yes, but the gprs was paaaainful
<jsgotangco> im cleaning up my LP membership heh
<highvoltage> I need to go through LP and wiki too at some point
<jsgotangco> yeah its full of cruft
<jsgotangco> i managed to finish translations as well today for jokosher
<highvoltage> oh cool. I like the way you're envolved *everywhere* in Ubuntu (or so it seems at least)
<stgraber> highvoltage: for these two bugs, should I report them for Ubuntu or Edubuntu ?
<highvoltage> I think this december I'll have a chance to play around in different areas too.
<highvoltage> stgraber: Ubuntu
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: translation is the easiest way to be in the loop actually
<stgraber> ok
<jsgotangco> even upstream
<highvoltage> stgraber: I don't think you can specify Edubuntu specifically, if you choose the package that is affected in Ubuntu, it will be the same package that's in Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> hey ulinskie
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: heh too bad we're not going to MV next month, but if things go well, i'll meet up with sabdfl before the month ends
<pygi> hey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> pygi: hi!
<pygi> long time no see ^_^
<jsgotangco> i've been busy and online time for ubuntu is limited to night and weekends
<jsgotangco> pygi: have you looked into the amenity packaging?
<pygi> jsgotangco: yes and no
<pygi> I think I packaged two components, and then stopped because of moving
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> hmm the FF fonts in edgy are awesome
<stgraber> highvoltage: I reported for debian-installer (for the "Configure the keyboard" stuff) and for syslinux (for the missing swiss french option), I hope that's the good package :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I just saw in Launchpad :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ah! I'm glad you say that. I noticed it looked awesome too, but I thought it was just my imagination.
<jsgotangco> i wonder if it now uses cairo rendering
<jsgotangco> it looks so cairo-ish
<jsgotangco> does FF use Pango?
* stgraber really likes the Firefox 2 look
<stgraber> if I'm not wrong cairo will be used for Firefox 3 (at least I read something like that somewhere)
<jsgotangco> launchpad looks alive in FF2
<ulinskie> hey jsgotangco
<stgraber> Maybe an info text should be added to the box that shows the "Generating LTSP chroot", like "This can take several minutes, please wait"
<stgraber> otherwise people will think the installer crashed at 50%
<highvoltage> stgraber: or worse... yesterday, I was intalling edubuntu on a machine that actually froze while building chroot (hardware failure), and I waited a long time for it to finish
<lucasvo> 14:05 < highvoltage> stgraber: or worse... yesterday, I was intalling edubuntu on a machine that actually froze while building chroot (hardware failure),  and I waited a long time for it to finish
<lucasvo> ups
<highvoltage> when I noticed how much time has gone by, I pressed caps lock and noticed that that doesn't even work.
<lucasvo> *oops
<stgraber> or, maybe some way to update the status bar with the status of the building
<stgraber> dhcpd works fine with two network cards here
<stgraber> I choosed the one that's connected to the net during the install and dhcpd is now running on the other one
<pygi> jsgotangco: I got just one SoC shirt btw :'(
<pygi> I wanted three =)
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<pygi> jsgotangco: well, I had three students :P
<pygi> next year I'll apply myself under different names and addresses :P
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> that's a good idea
<stgraber> highvoltage: I found another bug, the keymap isn't the same on the server and on the clients
<stgraber> I have my swiss german one on the server and an en_US one on the clients
<highvoltage> stgraber: iirc, that's already filed as a bug, you might want to search in launchpad and confirm the current bug
<stgraber> do you know for what package it has been filed ? I can't find it
<highvoltage> I don't know, it might be under the ltsp package
<stgraber> I searched in all ltsp bugs and in all Edgy bugs that contained en_US, en US, keymap or keyboard and I still can't find it :(
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, I suggest you create the new bug then. if the other one pops out somehow, you could always merge them again
<stgraber> done
<bddebian> Howdy
<highvoltage> geez, you know you need a break when you type 'apt-get install apt-get install icewm' and you're wondering what you're doing wrong
<highvoltage> howdy mr bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya highvoltage
<lguerra> hi all
<BonBonTheJon> hi lguerra
<highvoltage> hello!
<stgraber> hi
<cbx33> ping ogra
* highvoltage wonders how many ping ogra's ogra gets every day
<jsgotangco> heh
<lguerra> jeje
* lguerra did not it want to be in the ogras shoes
<jsgotangco> ahh its only midnight and im still bored
<lguerra> why jsgotangco?
* jsgotangco is thinking what to do
* lguerra it suggests to do a party :P
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: how does the area around you look after the weather accidents that happened?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: did your city mostly recover from it already?
* lguerra place the beers :D
<juliux> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: well a few hours after the typhoon, a lot of electric posts and billboards got trashed
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: so the government started dismantling the really huge billboards
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i lost power for 3 days and phone for more than a week
<jsgotangco> but we're pretty used to typhoons we're just not used to billboards getting trashed
<lguerra> jsgotangco: where are you?
<highvoltage> ah ok. I thought there was structural damage to buildings too.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: well the worse is that big trees got uprooted and billboards flying over
<jsgotangco> (we have really huge billboards here in the city)
<jsgotangco> (some of them like an imax screen)
<jsgotangco> lguerra: manila (philippines)
<highvoltage> wow, that's quite big.
* highvoltage wants to go to manilla one day
<highvoltage> (when the weather is good, of course :) )
<jsgotangco> its usually good here during the summer (April to June)
<jsgotangco> its the "beach" months
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> and usually after november 1, the christmas season starts
<jsgotangco> on tv you see artists starting to promote their christmas albums already heh
* lguerra it proposes that we do meeting of edubunturos in manila, and all for the house of highvoltage
<lguerra> jsgotangco*
<jsgotangco> lguerra: you never know, the next edubuntu conf might be here ;)
<highvoltage> +1 for that!
<lguerra> if you see, me not entire you're welcome, not wise that business about the tifon, and now not wise it of edubuntu conf
<highvoltage> lguerra: heh, no I'm afraid I'm having trouble understanding you
<lguerra> highvoltage:  if they see, I do not find out to me anything, nonwise the one of the typhoon, and now nonwise the one of edubuntu conf
<jsgotangco> huh?
<nixternal> what?
<nixternal> well hello there mr. jsgotangco!
<jsgotangco> nixternal: hey dude
<nixternal> i feel like mike tyson has whooped on me
<jsgotangco> wahahaha
<jsgotangco> jeezz it seems bt is a bit borked in edgy
<jsgotangco> anyways gotta crash
<jsgotangco> see ya
<pygi> hey bddebian 
<highvoltage> hey pygi 
<cbx33> duuuudes
<pygi> wb highvoltage :P
#edubuntu 2006-10-22
<tideline> anyone here working on the handbook?
<BonBonTheJon> tideline: I am, somewhat
<tideline> BonBonTheJon, is the work coming out of/being updated in C or working or orig dir?
<BonBonTheJon> tideline: I just started helping, but I look in the C directory
<chovynz34654> I'm setting up an 80G HD with some partitions for Edubuntu / win 98 :\. I need some help getting some of the setting right 
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: what do you need help with
<tideline> BonBonTheJon, ok thanks - also do you know if the task list on the wiki is up to date?
<BonBonTheJon> tideline: no idea, I am working on the Concepts: Networking page
<tideline> BonBonTheJon, ok thanks!
<chovynz34654> BonBonTheJon: I'd like to set up some partitions (how many specifically i dont really know yet. What i do know is this ...
<chovynz34654> ./boot partition = 2Gb, swap partition = (2xRAM) = 1.5gb, / partition = leftover, win98 partition 4gb. Sounds reasonable so far? 
<tideline> chovynz34654, you dont need that big of a boot partition
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: everything besides boot, only needs to be like 50 MB, maybe
<chovynz34654> tideline : how much (that was one of the things that confused me after looking at some docs)
<tideline> chovynz34654, like BonBonTheJon said 50 would be a lot I usually make mine about 120 ish
<chovynz34654> 120mb for a boot? 
<chovynz34654> for edubuntu
<BonBonTheJon> yeah
<tideline> yeah
<chovynz34654> k. done. boot needs to be first partition correct?
<BonBonTheJon> I don't think it NEEDS to be, but I always do
<tideline> it is best to have it the first section of addressable blocks
<tideline> or something like that
<chovynz34654> ok. Next Q. I have Edu6.06 already installed and upgraded on HDA1...(im installing EDU onto my primary slave so i can return my friends HD)
<chovynz34654> theres an option under installing...
<chovynz34654> copy data from another partition
<chovynz34654> If i use that will it copy the data already D/led and installed onto my .....argh
<tideline> thats is, your boot partition must be contained within the first 1024 cylinders
<tideline> I have never used that option
<tideline> there are many ways to get data from one disk to another
<tideline> let me see if I can find something I wrote a while ago
<chovynz34654> I have 2 HDs. the 8g is my friends which id like to return soon. The 80G is mine which id like to set up as the booter in Edubuntu
<chovynz34654> 80g will have a boot part, a root part, 2 data parts, 1 win98 part
<tideline> are you going to install onto the 80gb'er?
<tideline> a fresh install?
<chovynz34654> EDU is already installed o the 8g
<chovynz34654> fresh onto 80
<tideline> right but are you going to do a fresh install on the 80
<chovynz34654> yes fresh onto 80
<chovynz34654> I have a cd that im running trying to set this up
<chovynz34654> 8 is master, 80 is slave
<tideline> ok I would put the 80gb disk on the contoler as primary and the 8gb on as slave, install the OS's you want, then rsync or copy from the 80 to the 8
<chovynz34654> ok got that.
<chovynz34654> what im having trouble with is the boot root and win parts
<tideline> do you have apps that you have installed other than what comes with edu?
<tideline> ah
<tideline> are you going to use grub?
<chovynz34654> yeah
<chovynz34654> i've written down a plan, but im struggling to set my HD up like i want
<chovynz34654> (bearing in mind I wont have my friends HD soon)
<chovynz34654> wheres the info i need...
<chovynz34654> *Heres the info i need
<chovynz34654> Q. What sizes do i need the partitions to be
<chovynz34654> and how do i install win after into some freespace after linux
<tideline> I dont know what a normal Windows Install takes up space wise?
<chovynz34654> as far as i can tell i need 4 parts... "/" "/boot" "swap" "win98"
<tideline> I would imagine 25-30 gb of the 80 would be enough
<chovynz34654> onyl need 4g
<chovynz34654> itll be a stripped down version of win98
<chovynz34654> only esentials and graphic drivers
<tideline> ok
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: if the computer is fast enough, why not do windows in a virtual machine
<chovynz34654> tried virtual
<tideline> so i would add a little space for additional storage
<tideline> did you try parallels?
<chovynz34654> it wont run some of the progs im running under windows (maplestory)
<tideline> it has worked great for me, but it's not free
<tideline> I have some guys at work that use qemu
<chovynz34654> :\ cant afford atm
<tideline> I personally don't use any Windows anymore, even at work!
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: did you try vmware/qemu, or did you try wine
<chovynz34654> trid wine
<chovynz34654> *tried
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: ahh, see vmware runs windows from within linux, so it will work, just need to set it up
<chovynz34654> vmware costs
<chovynz34654> i cant pay any more money atm
<tideline> qemu is a very viable option
<tideline> its free
<chovynz34654> got a link?
<BonBonTheJon> !qemu
<ubotu> qemu is an emulator you can use to run another operating system - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsXPUnderQemuHowTo
<BonBonTheJon> !vmware
<ubotu> VMWare Player is in Ubuntu's !Multiverse repository. Instructions to install VMWare Server can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingVMWare
<chovynz34654> thnx for links
<chovynz34654> hmmm...these dont help me yet
<chovynz34654> they would if i were at a gui or shell...but atm im at formatting / partition setup from the CD
<chovynz34654> ok ill ask from a different angle
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: install EDU on the drive, then when that is up, you can install Windows in VMWare or Qemu
<chovynz34654> how much freespace should i leave on the 80.....ok bonbon
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: for...?
<chovynz34654> (so i can install win98 later / after EDU)
<chovynz34654> nvm i answered my own question
<chovynz34654> thnx for your help guys
<BonBonTheJon> for a clean install of edubuntu, I guess 50 or 100 or more for /boot, 2 times memory for swap, the rest can be /
<chovynz34654> oh thats why i was getting confused....the 80g (new as of 6 months ago) previously had win98 on it. 98 didnt handle it very well and now i have bad sectors on the disk. After formatting that shouldn't matter but i was wondering if i partitioned the HD into a few data drives, would it reduce the problems i get from bad sectors (if any ever appear again after installing linux)  
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: this is getting beyond my reach, but I think the disk can detect bad sectors and not use them
<chovynz34654> k :)
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: I am most likely wrong, but for what its work
<BonBonTheJon> worth*
<tideline> dont save any space on the drive
<tideline> quem and vmware use files on the local system for OS
<BonBonTheJon> yeah
<tideline> so here is a generic partition table
<chovynz34654> win98 does not however. if i install win98 later i will need a partition. I wanted to set that possibilty up now incase these two programs dont run MapleStory. MS is the ONLY reason I'm still using 98 on my othercomputer 
<tideline> crap I will use a paste bin its a little large
<chovynz34654> everything else i need is available on linux
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: just don't partition jsut enough space for win98
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: and if you get a virtual machine working you can expand the / partition
<tideline> chovynz34654, BonBonTheJon has a good point
<chovynz34654> good thought
<tideline> but if you were going to know you were going to use qemu I wouldn't bother just use the entire balance of the disk after you have boot and swap
<chovynz34654> so boot does need to be a partition?
<BonBonTheJon> tideline: but my way will work in either case
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: yeah, say 150MB
<chovynz34654> aiighty
<chovynz34654> :( my installation failed
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: what do you mean
<tideline> BonBonTheJon, right I agree nothing meant by my remarks
<BonBonTheJon> tideline: I was just pointing out :)
<tideline> chovynz34654, what happened?
<tideline> did you get any useful info?
<chovynz34654> "./pool/main/h/hplip/hplip-data_0.9.1-4ubuntu1_all.deb file failed the md5 checksum verification. Your CD-ROM or this file may have been corrupted."
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: is this a new cd?
<chovynz34654> yes :( CD image
<tideline> chovynz34654, did you check the MD5 after you downloaded it?
<chovynz34654> i didn't. My friends CD. it might be ROM. The CD worked before to install to his HD as well.
<chovynz34654> this is frustrating
<tideline> hang in there
<chovynz34654> :\
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: we are here to help
<chovynz34654> ok heres what im goon try....
<chovynz34654> *gonna
<chovynz34654> i have a working 8g HD. I have a clean 80G HD as slave
<chovynz34654> EDU is already installed on 8g
<BonBonTheJon> download, check, and burn on edu
<chovynz34654> ill direct copy over 8HD to 80HD 
<chovynz34654> swap cables (master & slave) and see if that works
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: its worth a try
<chovynz34654> meanwhile im ordering a couple of cds :D
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: good call
<chovynz34654> want to hear a linux horror story? (aka lessons ill never forget)
<tideline> chovynz34654, sure
<chovynz34654> when the 80g was still a W98 HD, i was trying to get EDU to recognise the HD so i could access the files and transfer to a backup machine. I didnt know how to do that so i read up and fiddling around. I used "Disks" under sys -> admin. 
<chovynz34654> i pointed the mount point for the 80g HD to /dev (made sense to me)
<BonBonTheJon> :(
<chovynz34654> after clicking ok....i couldnt do anything else
<BonBonTheJon> eeek
<chovynz34654> i panicked....and read up trying to fix that mistake for hours
<chovynz34654> most solutions involved doing something like go to shell and type ...
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: did you ever figure out how, I have no idea unless you chroot'ed into the drive and fixed it
<chovynz34654> i couldn't GET to shell or terminal or anything
<chovynz34654> so that was no go
<chovynz34654> i hard rebooted
<chovynz34654> it didnt save the session, so my mistake wasnt in the system
<chovynz34654> phew O.O
<chovynz34654> (try it out on a trash HD) lesson : NEVER direct your points to any of the systme folders...make one up first
<chovynz34654> ok another question for you....
<BonBonTheJon> yes...
<chovynz34654> how come i cant (using gui) copy and paste the boot folder on 8g to 80g
<BonBonTheJon> I don't quite understand, how are you going about copy and pasting
<chovynz34654> click on /boot folder under root (8g)    copy     focus on /mnt/hd1/boot (80g)      paste is greyed out
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: oh, you might not have write priveleges
<chovynz34654> im doing it as root
<chovynz34654> i think
<BonBonTheJon> did you just open the file manager
<chovynz34654> yeah. Thats under user name. I dont really get the users vs root bit yet
<chovynz34654> do i need to do what i want to under terminal?
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: I haven't used EDU yet, so does it use GNOME or KDE
<chovynz34654> Gnome
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: you will need to run the file manager (name?) under root
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: I use KDE, and I don't know how you do that, maybe I can look it up
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: I'm going to guess 'sudo nautilus'
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: then try it
<chovynz34654> yes nautils 2.14.3
<tideline> you are trying to copy your /boot partition to the /boot partition on the other disk?
<chovynz34654> yes tideline
<chovynz34654> ah no
<tideline> chovynz34654, I think the best way to do that is with somthing more low level like dd in the command line
<chovynz34654> ok..."dd"? what does that mean?
<tideline> that will copy block for block
<tideline> I dont think it means anything... it probably did ;-)
<chovynz34654> lol
<tideline> man dd gives dd - convert and copy file
<tideline> and its name
<chovynz34654> so go to command line...that is not terminal is it
<tideline> y
<tideline> its terminal
<chovynz34654> ah...lol too late
<tideline> I wrote a blog entry about something just like this you may want to check it out, it's about disk recovery with reiserfs and ext3 as boot so it may help
<tideline> let me get a link
<tideline> chovynz34654, try this: http://blog.internetinnovation.com/?p=2
<tideline> there is a section about copying with dd from one disk to another
<tideline> check the section about the /boot partition very similar to what you want to do I think
<tideline> it is actually dump not dd
<chovynz34654> yeah thats quite simialr to what im doing
<chovynz34654> thnx for link
<chovynz34654> what is reisurfs?
<chovynz34654> nvm found it
<tideline> reiserfs is just another journaling fs like ext3
<tideline> it's creator is actually in jail now
<chovynz34654> o.O
<chovynz34654> dd = disk dump
<tideline> that makes sense
<chovynz34654> i guess :)
<chovynz34654> http://linux.about.com/od/commands/l/blcmdl.htm
<tideline> night all
<nathan> night tide
<nathan> thnx for your help
<BonBonTheJon> night
<chovynz> bon bon...can you read this message?
<BonBonTheJon> yup
<chovynz> ok thnx
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: can you C&P the last lines of Tide for me? I closed the  window. :\
<BonBonTheJon> <tideline> night all
<BonBonTheJon> <tideline> that makes sense
<BonBonTheJon> that good?
<chovynz> lol the ones with the link and any HD copying info
<BonBonTheJon> [23:03]  <tideline> chovynz34654, try this: http://blog.internetinnovation.com/?p=2
<BonBonTheJon> that?
<chovynz> thnx
<chovynz> *scratches head* i dont understand most of that file. 
<chovynz> *link
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did you get the files copied
<chovynz> no. still trying things
<chovynz> looking at edubuntus docs
<chovynz> ....how do i login as root in terminal
<chovynz> geez....theres got to be a simpler way to copy a HD
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: are you using a terminal windows?
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: do 'sudo passwd root' to set the password
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: then 'su' to log in as root, it will ask you for the password you just entered
<chovynz> thank you.
<chovynz> most helpful
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did it work?
<chovynz> yep
<BonBonTheJon> ok good
<sbalneav> Evening all
<BonBonTheJon> evening sbalneav
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: where can i find info on the commands for linux
<chovynz> evening sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello hello
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: things like sudo su dd etc....
<chovynz> thats part of my problem i think...i dont know what to do or type or where to look
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: well, some info is installed, they are called man pages
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: if you know a command, run 'man command' and you will get info.
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: there are plenty of web sites that give info, like http://www.linux.org/lessons/beginner/toc.html
<chovynz> thnx...see i didnt know that :D
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: also you can check out the wiki at http://wiki.ubuntu.com
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: and of course here on irc
<chovynz> thnx both those links are helpful.
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: a lot of stuff is similar between other distros, so most tutorials will work
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: except when it deals with installing software, use synaptic
<chovynz> yeah got that one already
<chovynz> Im a windows user from way back....i've found learning linux is ....challenging
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: yeah, but I find working with linux, you come to understand how the computer works more
<sbalneav> For the most part, you shouldn't really ever need to use the command line.
<sbalneav> Most things you'd "normally" like to do, you should be able to do graphically in Ubuntu.
<chovynz> mostly
<chovynz> :D
<BonBonTheJon> sbalneav: and if there isnt, then I think we need to get someone writing some code :)
<chovynz> sbalneav: heres a challenge for you. Is there a way to (GUI) copy & paste system files (i.e. /boot)  from one HD to another clean one?
<sbalneav> chovynz: Are you trying to simply backup the files, or make a bootable hard drive?
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: lol now i gotta explain it all again
<chovynz> bootable HD
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: :)
<chovynz> sbalneav: i have 2 HD
<chovynz> 8g and 80g
<chovynz> 8g is a friends, has EDU on it
<chovynz> 80g is mine and i want to install linux on to it
<chovynz> im returning 8g soon
<sbalneav> So, why not simply install edubuntu on it, then just copy over the data?
<chovynz> cause my cd isn't working anymore
<chovynz> :D
<sbalneav> Which, the drive, or the Ubuntu cd?
<BonBonTheJon> sbalneav: we think it is the cd
<chovynz> *bangs head on desk*
<chovynz> :)
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: can you re-download edubuntu?
<sbalneav> That's easy: borrow another cd rom drive from a friend.  Try with that one.
<chovynz> i reallllllly dont want to lol....i want to get it up and running this arvo :D
<chovynz> been working on this issue for a number of days now
<chovynz> that and i have limited broadband
<sbalneav> Trying to do a hard drive to hard drive move isn't easy, but it's not impossible.
<chovynz> if i re dl edubuntu that'll take a big chunk out
<chovynz> sbalneav:  whats the least complicated way of doing hd to hd 
<sbalneav> Easy.  Trade your 80 for your friends 8.  He gets a bigger drive, you get an edubuntu install.  Everyone's happy :)
<sbalneav> I'll see if I can dig you up an article.
<sbalneav> This isn't an "easy" thing on any any os, including windows.
<chovynz> lol "Easy.  Trade your 80 for your friends 8.  He gets a bigger drive, you get an edubuntu install.  Everyone's happy :)"
<chovynz> if this were windows id use ghost or something
<sbalneav> That's something you have to buy.
<chovynz> argh....my times up.......thnx for help guys.......ill come back here later....better yet ill leave this window open
<sbalneav> Leave it open, I'm looking up an article, I'll paste it.
<chovynz> bbl in 2 ish hours
<sbalneav> Do you have both hard drives installed?
<chovynz> back...for a few
<chovynz> yes i have both hd installed
<chovynz> 8-g is clean and ready to take new OS
<chovynz> *80
<sbalneav> ok, I can probably step you through the process, if need be.  It'll take a bit of work, though.
<chovynz> sbalneav & BonBonTheJon: why does my 80g keep losing its access path? How can i make my 80g HD a permanant HD?
<sbalneav> What do you mean?
<chovynz> well every few hours i have to use "Disks" again and point the 80HD access path to teh folder i created (/mnt/hd2)
<chovynz> Disks Manager
<sky123> Hi guys....I just got the edubuntu server up and running and could use a little help on the config/ help with the thin client portion. 
<sbalneav> You're probably mounting it as a user, and when you log out, the automounter unmounts it.
<sbalneav> sky123: What seems to be the problem?
<BonBonTheJon> sky123: what is your question
<sky123> Do I need to set up dhcp on the box with two nics like the wiki says or is that unecessary 
<sky123> i already have a dhcp server on my network 
<sbalneav> If you've installed edubuntu, the dhcpd server should be there already.
<sky123> and configured the edubuntu box with a static ip... ( just read your comment ohhhh). 
<sbalneav> chovynz: OK, what hard drive is your root, and which one's your 80 gig?
<sky123> okay assuming the client machines PXE boot up... (pardon my newbness on this)...and I have one dhcp server serving up the rest of the workstations on my network....and edubuntu as the tftp/pxe dhcp installed...and I pxe boot...will the two dhcp contend with each other...??
<sbalneav> chovynz: Could you paste the results of the command "sudo fdisk -l" to the pastebin?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<chovynz> 8g is root - master- hda. 80g is /mnt/hd2 - slave - hdb
<chovynz> ok sbalneav
<sbalneav> sky123: Does the edubuntu server have 2 nics in it?
<sky123> sorry..long question..not necessarily a /var/log/messages post...i know about pastebin...my appologies.. 
<sky123> nope 
<sky123> just one
<sbalneav> Then yes, they will cause problems with each other.
<sbalneav> Best way to deploy any LTSP network is to have a separate nic for just the terminals, that way they don't interfere with other dhcpd servers.
<sbalneav> sky123: The pastebin comment was for chovynz
<chovynz> sbalneav: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27752/
<sky123> so in essence if there is already a network say...   DSL---firewall----network(192.168.0.1)---edubuntu----network(10.0.0.0) or something would have to be setup....sort of a double natted environment??
<sky123> does that sound right?...
<sbalneav> No, the edubuntu server won't need natting, remember, all the processes are going to be running on the edubuntu server, so they'll just see and talk over the 192.168.0.0 network.
<sbalneav> Setting up a 192.168.1.0 network for the terminals to live on, makes it so you only run the dhcpd server on that network, and it only serves the thin clients.
<sbalneav> All they do then is just move the X windows packets back and forth on that network.
<sbalneav> chovynz: OK, well, looks like you've got it partitoned already.
<sbalneav> OK, type this:
<sbalneav> sudo su -
<sbalneav> and a warning.
<sbalneav> I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE/MISTYPED COMMANDS.
<chovynz> heh. i dont hold you resposible sbalneav :D
<sbalneav> ok
<sky123> okay....say the dhcp server config file which the wiki talks about is adjusted to say... 192.168.1.0....with one nic on the machine...there is still contention by potential workstations that connect (ie not thin clients) which may choose 192.168.0.0 or 192.168.1.0...but with two nics IT IS sort of natterd no?? or am i seeing this all wrong....
<sbalneav> so, first thing you want to do is make a swap partition on hdb5.
<sbalneav> mkswap /dev/hdb5
<chovynz> it already is isnt it?
<sbalneav> If you install a second nic, and hang a switch off it, and hang the terminals off that, they will be separate, yes.
<sbalneav> chovynz: it's PARTITIONED as swap, but unless you've FORMATTED it as swap, it won't act as a swap drive.
<sky123> okay...but with the one nic setup....what is required??...(just trying to understand it ;) ) 
<sbalneav> sky123: You'd have to adjust one, or both of the dhcpd.conf files.
<sbalneav> Edubuntu by default hands out dynamic addresses.  If the other dhcpd server does the same, it will have a confilct.
<sky123> sbalneav: if say adjust the edubuntu server to say a 192.168.1.0 dhcp network...still the conetention or??
<sbalneav> chovynz: Tell me when the mkswap command is done.
<sbalneav> sky123: No, that won't work.  You can't have  a nic be both a .1.0 and a .0.0 network.
<sky123> sblaneav: so in essence only one dhcp server with the location of tftp,pxe info etc.. 
<chovynz> sbalneav: done
<sbalneav> That's usually easiest, yes.  Not necessary, you can do it other ways, but thats the simplest.
<sky123> sblaneav: also that basically means one of the dhcp servers turned off. 
<sbalneav> chovynz: OK, now we need to move the data across.
<sky123> right?
<sbalneav> sky123: Either that, or move both to using static assigned addresses.
<sky123> okay 
<sbalneav> Search on wiki.ltsp.org for the dhcp section
<sbalneav> It has all sorts of good info.
<sbalneav> chovynz: Give me a second to look up the exact set of command line options I need...
<sky123> maybe using the two nics isnt such a "bad" idea and in essence isolating requests to the edubuntu server via a physical switch... 
<sky123> that way any client machines can be easily identified.. 
<sky123> 2nd...uhmmmm..okay 40th question...lol...assuming the bios on the clients have no PXE boot capability...what are you using to get the ability for the clients to be able to have the PXE cabalities?? 
<sbalneav> sky123: etherboot.
<sbalneav> OK, chovynz, lets do this:
<sky123> is that a iso disc or something on the internet that can be dl'd ? 
<sbalneav> echo "mnt" > /excludes
<sbalneav> echo "proc" >> /excludes
<sbalneav> echo "media" >> /excludes
<sky123> !etherboot
<ubotu> etherboot: Bootstrapping for various network adapters. In component universe, is optional. Version 5.4.1-1 (dapper), package size 21206 kB, installed size 25052 kB
<sky123> asked and answered...lol 
<sbalneav> echo "dev" >> /excludes
<sbalneav> chovynz: So you should have a file in your root with 4 lines in it
<sbalneav> mnt
<sbalneav> proc
<sbalneav> media
<sbalneav> dev
<sbalneav> Yes?
<chovynz> sbalneav: not sure...i did those commands
<sbalneav> cat /excludes
<chovynz> true
<chovynz> what does cat do?
<sky123> hmm...okay showing more newbness....how to get a bootable iso or floppy to "etherboot"??
<sbalneav> cat "catenates" or appends files.  i.e. dumps them to the terminal
<chovynz> ah. thnx
<sbalneav> sky123: Read that on the wiki.ltsp.org as well
<sbalneav> Etherboot section.
<sbalneav> chovynz: OK, 
<sbalneav> Have you mounted the hdb1? i.e. type the command "mount | grep hdb1"
<sbalneav> is it mounted on your "/mnt/hdb1" you created?
<chovynz> im sorry sbalneav...i need to go....will you be on in 2 hours?
<chovynz> or can you point me to a link?
<sbalneav> Maybe yes, maybe no.
<sbalneav> There's an article on debian-administration.org, as well, I'm working from some notes of my own.
<chovynz> thnx for youe help here...hopefully ill see you in 2 hours :D
<sbalneav> Probably not.  It'll be 2 am for me here then :)
<sky123> okay...got a little further and have dhcp properly configured on edubuntu and used the rom-tool for etherboot to create an iso...rebooted client and I get a no BIOS32 detected message...can someone help out??
<sky123> is the driver wrong?
<sky123> hi...still having problems with a pci_init: no BIOS32 detected message...what does that mean?? and what do I need to do to have the client connect to the edubuntu server... 
<sky123> ??
<sky123> okay....i guess im having trouble creating the image for the etherboot via the rom-omatic..can someone help out?
<chovynz> im back
<achandra> anyone awake out  there that may  be able to help out with an etherboot issue??
* highvoltage might
<highvoltage> achandra: still kind of waking up here though :)
<pygi> hey ogra 
<cbx33> ping ogra
<highvoltage> pingz ograz!!!
<cbx33> highvoltage!!
<highvoltage> morning cbx33  :)
<cbx33> excellent testing my man
<highvoltage> thanks. if I could get my rsync working I'd test with the rc image too :-/
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> i see 66808 bit you too
<cbx33> did you manage to confirm or deny my sound bug
<highvoltage> cbx33: bug number?
<highvoltage> cbx33: I don't recall having any sound problems
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> on a thin client...login u get sound....
<cbx33> logout and login as a diff user.... do u get sound?
<cbx33> i dont here
<highvoltage> ah, I couldn't test that, since I couldn't log in as any other user than the first one
<highvoltage> lots of strange things happen after you've logged out and log in again.
<cbx33> ah
<highvoltage> I think LDM needs to clean up much more
<cbx33> yeh
<highvoltage> I'm going to make some heavy LDM hacks for tuxlabs. I think worse case sceneario is that we'll have to use GDM + XDMCP again this round, but I'd like to avoid that if at all possible.
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> think i'll update my lappie and do some testing later
<highvoltage> at least with feisty, I'll be able to get more frequent images and do more testing.
<cbx33> bbl
<highvoltage> cbx33: I've been thinking yesterday...
<highvoltage> cbx33: ok, talk to you when you're back
<cbx33> no no
<cbx33> now is cool
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> even though there's few Edubuntu bugs at the moment, I think we should have an Edubuntu hug/bug day too on Wednesdays, along with the Ubuntu one.
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> good idea
<highvoltage> it will be a nice space/forum/platform to co-ordinate testing and bug hunting
<cbx33> sounds great
<highvoltage> and it's convenient that wednesdays are on the same days as our weekly meeting
<cbx33> yes
* pygi has no time for hug days :'*
<pygi> :'(
<cbx33> we should draft a mailing list announcement 
<highvoltage> pygi: I'm sure you'll get there some day :)
<pygi> highvoltage: yes, when they kick me out of uni =)
<highvoltage> cbx33: good Idea. timing wise, this coming Wednesday is a bit bad time-wise, since it's the day before release
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> but in future 
* pygi is presenting edgy two days after it's out ;)
<highvoltage> cbx33: perhaps we should start as soon as feisty opens?
<cbx33> i agree
<highvoltage> that will give us good time to prepare wiki pages, which will help new people get involved, etc, etc
<cbx33> clean up as many old bugs be ore devel starts
<highvoltage> yep
<cbx33> brb
<highvoltage> ok
<cbx333> highvoltage, did you bugify on LP all your bugs?
<crimsun> cbx333: looking forward to some rockin' sounds for Feisty :)
<cbx333> oh indeed
<cbx333> crimsun, now got my Lexicon effects unit from the uni days all hoooked up to the Delta
<crimsun> nice
<cbx333> thanks for all the help bud
<crimsun> np
<highvoltage> cbx333: I buggified ~90% of them
<highvoltage> cbx333: some I have to check up on again
<cbx333> highvoltage, I'll try to confirm some of them on the RCC release
* highvoltage just found some fun forgotten photos on hard disk and uploaded
<highvoltage> like this one: http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/tuxlab-roadshow-2005/img_2757 :)
<highvoltage> cbx333: ok thanks, that will certainly be very helpful
<cbx333> heheh
<cbx333> highvoltage, gcompris is fine with ati driver
<cbx333> trying vesa
<cbx333> yup that's a confirm from me
<highvoltage> cbx333: great, can you confirm it in malone too please?
<cbx333> yes about to
<cbx333> but hit another really opdd bug
<cbx333> reall really odd
<cbx333> whilst trying to switch VTTs
<cbx333> all the keys just make funn characters
<cbx333> I can't switch
<cbx333> I guess I must be trying to switch during vesa loading 
<cbx333> :S
<cbx333> I'll take a pic on my mobile
<cbx333> highvoltage, have you experienced it where loading a nautilus window results in 4-5 windows being opened?
<cbx333> all at the home dir
<highvoltage> cbx333: yes
<cbx333> is it bugged?
<highvoltage> cbx333: on the thin client just after logging in to
<cbx333> I hate that
<cbx333> hmm....it does it on normal edgy too
<highvoltage> cbx333: no, not yet, I had trouble reproducing it
<cbx333> yeh me too
<cbx333> just had it whilst loading my memstick on ym phone
<highvoltage> but it *does* happen
<highvoltage> cbx333: I think you should bug it, I will confirm
<cbx333> yeh?
<cbx333> ok
<cbx333> I don;t know what to file against
<cbx333> confirmed your other one
<highvoltage> gnome-desktop... or nautilus
<highvoltage> I don't think it matters *too* much which one. someone can correct it when more info is available on the bug
<cbx333> ok
<cbx333> highvoltage, where are the menu entries stored?
<highvoltage> which menu entries? like the gnome menu entries?
<cbx333> yes
<cbx333> like gcompris
<highvoltage> just a sec, I can look it up
<highvoltage> /usr/share/menu
<cbx333> thans
<cbx333> just bugged the other one
<cbx333> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/67517
<highvoltage> cbx333: that's the debian style menus location, then there's also /usr/share/applications, which seem to be the gnome specific ones
<cbx333> yeh i got it
<highvoltage> bug confirmed.
<cbx333> thanks 
<cbx333> not a lot of info on the gcompris
<highvoltage> might even be a bug with the vesa driver or Xorg
<cbx333> yeh
<cbx333> gcompris displays very little
* highvoltage tries to think of other games that switch resolution
<cbx333> highvoltage, do you know how I can route all output to a file
<highvoltage> I have a feeling that it's not a gcompris problem per se
<cbx333> stdout and stderr
<highvoltage> cbx333: gcompris >& output
<cbx333> highvoltage, got some strace output on that bug
<cbx333> I'm gonna post to LP
<cbx333> just logged in clicked for home dir and got 5 windows
<cbx333> this is silly
<highvoltage> cbx333: I got the windows popping up without even clicking on anything
<cbx333> yikes
<cbx333> I have had that before too
<highvoltage> cbx333: it just opened when I logged in
<cbx333> did you see my attachemtn to the gcompris one
<cbx333> highvoltage, could it be a font issue?
<cbx333> check out thhe last 30 or so lines
<cbx333> where we see...Fatal Server error
<frandavid100> hello!
<highvoltage> cbx333: what's the bug number again?
<frandavid100> how can I get some info on the student control panel?
<cbx333> ahhhh.....I see a SEGFAULT
<highvoltage> cbx333: sorry, nm
<cbx333> frandavid100, I wrote a lot of it
<frandavid100> it doesn't have an "about" button
<cbx333> what can I do for you
<highvoltage> frandavid100: cbx333 is the current developer on it :)
<cbx333> hehe
<cbx333> frandavid100, no, there is some documentation about it....
<frandavid100> hi cbx333, does it have a webpage?
<cbx333> it probably will have this release, or something like it
<cbx333> let me fidn the docs
<cbx333> highvoltage, where is the doc repo?
<cbx333> nixternal, had a rendered of the handbook so far
<cbx333> any ideas?
<frandavid100> it's not like I can do anything with that info myself, but I want to create a Ubuntu spec to include some sort of internet cafe software
<highvoltage> cbx333: I don't know, I don't think I ever had access to it
<cbx333> ahhh good plan
<cbx333> frandavid100, hang on 2 ticks
<frandavid100> and someone who knew how to do it could modify SCP to create that kind of program
<frandavid100> that's what I think at least, I can't program a thing so I couldn't tell
<cbx333> heheh
<cbx333> frandavid100, well,,,, SCP is going to become more generic next release
<cbx333> so less of the emphasis on puil/teacher
<frandavid100> they're calling me for breakfast, I'll be back in a minute
<frandavid100> :)
<cbx333> infact frandavid100 I'm writing the next SCP spec today
<cbx333> so feel free to make some additions
<frandavid100> hi again, cbx333
<frandavid100> what's the address of the spec?
<cbx333> not written yet
<cbx333> hang on switching IRC
<cbx33> highvoltage: *gah* - I just had 4 windows load on log in
<frandavid100> hiya
<frandavid100> what's the content of the spec going to be?
<cbx33> um....
<frandavid100> I mean, it's a ubuntu/edubuntu spec right? what's the proposal going to be?
<cbx33> ogra, I'mworking on the spec now
<cbx33> preliminary
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelSpec
<lucasvo> cbx33: nice
<cbx33> it's getting there
<lucasvo> oh, it doesn't exist
<lucasvo> I'll add my thoughts later on today
<cbx33> luscavo it does now
<cbx33> check it
<frandavid100> yep it does
<pygi> cbx33: ping
<cbx33> pongity pong
<pygi> o frandavid100, you're the one with mathusalem stuff on -devel
<pygi> cbx33: pm
<frandavid100> yeah that's me
<frandavid100> that thing is just spectacular
<pygi> frandavid100: read what Ivan just told you :)
<frandavid100> let me check my mail
<cbx33> mathusalem?
<frandavid100> well yeah, he's right as well
<cbx33> please anyonewith ideas add them o the bottom,.....so I can include into the spec
<frandavid100> cbx33: you can see mathusalem here
<frandavid100> http://tw.apinc.org/weblog/2006/08/22#summer-of-code-ended-mathusalem-continued
<lucasvo> cbx33: isn't this a litle short sighted: Easy handling of student LTSP connections on a single LTSP server. ?
<pygi> frandavid100: let's see how good it gets for feisty+1
<pygi> lucasvo: let's not push it :P
<cbx33> lucasvo, that was from the intial spec
<frandavid100> think so.
<lucasvo> for example if a class uses high power apps, and needs two servers scp is not usable any more
<frandavid100> cbx33: have you seen controlaula?
<cbx33> frandavid100, no
<frandavid100> it mightgive you some good ideas
<frandavid100> let me check it
<cbx33> oooh ok
<cbx33> link me if you can
<pygi> frandavid100: no, no, not controlaula :P
<pygi> (gambas, vb, eeesshh)
<frandavid100> yep
<frandavid100> but some of its funcionality is quite cool
<pygi> and I think it's development stopped:P
<lucasvo> cbx33: I think a "send file" option would be nice
<lucasvo> cbx33: also if possible a media streamer
<lucasvo> to make a screencast
<frandavid100> you can see some features here http://www.itais.net/controlaula/
<pygi> lucasvo: let's focus on basic functionality for now :P
<pygi> frandavid100: I know, I had some talks with its author
<frandavid100> and some more here but in spanish http://www.educalibre.cl/?q=node/106
<lucasvo> pygi: well, the basic funtionality is already speced
<cbx33> we have basic funtionality
<frandavid100> oh right
<cbx33> it's not just spec'd it's competed
<ogra> cbx33, seen my mails to ubuntu-devel ? 
<lucasvo> cbx33: blocking internet access is also good
<ogra> the vnc stuff should be in this time 
* pygi nods 
<ogra> lucasvo, thats totally out of scope for SCP
<lucasvo> ogra: it is? why?
<lucasvo> a classroom needs that 
<pygi> not really, no
<frandavid100> I don't agree there
<ogra> because thats the job of a content filter, not of a tool to control ltsp connections
<lucasvo> ogra: no, not a content filter, a blocker
<frandavid100> students might be working on some program, but not allowed to surf the web
<ogra> lucasvo, thats something SCP can do already
<lucasvo> because pupils shouldn't be able to go to wiki pedia if they are supposed to write a text in openoffice
<cbx33> ogra, think we'll be able to get SCP to integrate with willow
<ogra> cbx33, yes, thats the plan
<cbx33> excellent
<cbx33> I have drafted an initial spec
<ogra> but stay able to use each one indepoendently
<cbx33> as you can see it's basic and a litle sketchy
<cbx33> ogra, of course
<frandavid100> cbx33: should any non-teching features be included in the same spec, or a different one?
<pygi> ogra: do we still want me to write a spec for burning on LTSP or is that out now that I'm not coming? :-/
<cbx33> frandavid100, the hope is they can be implemented in plugins
<ogra> pygi, can do no harm
<ogra> frandavid100, SCP should become a generic ltsp session control tool ...
<cbx33> ogra, would appreciate any help...I have created the spec on LP and registered it to UDS
<lucasvo> cbx33: but the plugins shouldn't just pop up in a submenu
<lucasvo> that is too inflexible
<cbx33> do you agree about a name change ogra ?
<ogra> things that are specific to schools should be in a SCP-school package and be extensions to it
<cbx33> lucasvo, ther eis the possibility we can make some have buttons...
<cbx33> something in the register command
<ogra> cbx33, suggestions ?
<cbx33> I know the code...it's possible
<frandavid100> cbx33: but should the spec include intended individual plugin goals?
<cbx33> frandavid100, yes
<lucasvo> cbx33: when I have a portion of the possible actions in a submenu and one in the window itself, that is confusing
<cbx33> lucasvo, yes.... I agree
<ogra> yup, that needs to become consistent
<cbx33> lucasvo, my problem was...as we didnt even have a menu
<cbx33> I decided to creat the context menu
<cbx33> you're lucky I figured out how to make it dynamic
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> iright, note the gui changes in the spec
<cbx33> I started
<ogra> dropping the banner, adding tool and menubars
<cbx33> I'll add more in now
<cbx33> yes
<frandavid100> well then, if that's so there should be a plugin to handle connection times, prepaid connections (with time-outs) and a tarification system
<lucasvo> cbx33: I like the controlaula gui
<ogra> make mpt (our UI designer at canonical) look over it
<ogra> frandavid100, yeah
<pygi> lucasvo: heh, controlaula UI sucks big time
<lucasvo> cbx33: I also have some good ideas concerning the gui
<pygi> usability wise
<frandavid100> maybe a user register for special tarifications
<ogra> in the SCP-cafe package ;)
<cbx33> frandavid100, that is a thought we have had
<lucasvo> pygi: I mean the buttons on the right
<cbx33> this would require the server/client framework
<pygi> lucasvo: usability wise it's still very bad!
<cbx33> for the plugins I proposed
<pygi> lucasvo: entire app
<ogra> cbx33, not at all
<lucasvo> cbx33: should I work on an UI suggestion
<cbx33> ogra, how are you proposing?
<lucasvo> pygi: I haven't used it, I can't comment on that
<pygi> lucasvo: that's why I can :P
<frandavid100> would it be possible to monitor downloaded or created files, and delete them after a set time?
<cbx33> frandavid100, yes
<ogra> cbx33, split SCP into a front and backend first before you think about server/client 
<cbx33> ogra, ok
<ogra> cbx33, also SCP should not gop beyond ltsp
<frandavid100> well a cafe owner specifically asked me for that feature
<ogra> *go
<cbx33> ogra, I agree
<ogra> if prople want to manage workstations they should use something else
<cbx33> yes
<jsgotangco> is that the internet cafe thingie thread
<lucasvo> ogra: maybe with the same frontend
<jsgotangco> :D
<ogra> lucasvo, probably
<lucasvo> ogra: I think one should make the backend ltsp only
<lucasvo> the frontend could still be adapted
<pygi> lucasvo: what??!?
<lucasvo> maybe one could make the frontend connect to multiple backends on different servers
<ogra> well, my request for the split is rather to make kubuntu happy :)
<lucasvo> ogra: of course
<cbx33> ogra, ahhh i see
<ogra> lucasvo, beyond scope
<cbx33> totally a great idea
<ogra> thats something it can have in feisty+1 or +2
<lucasvo> agree
<cbx33> ogra, what do yo uthink about a name change?
<cbx33> to aid the genericism
<lucasvo> cbx33: +1
<frandavid100> that would be needed
<ogra> lets see that we focus on achievable goals for feisty
<lucasvo> but I don't have a clue, what name one could use
<ogra> cbx33, as i asked above ... gimme suggestions :)
<frandavid100> student control panel would mislead cafe owners
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll think of some
<cbx33> can we have a cool name
<cbx33> like ubiquity
<cbx33> :p
<lucasvo> client control
<pygi> frandavid100: bleh, we're not targeting caffe owners anyway :P
<ogra> easiest would be LTSP Control Panel
<ogra> cbx33, please dont
<cbx33> ogra, hehehe
<jsgotangco> nyahaha
<ogra> make it descriptive
<frandavid100> the problem is no one does pygi
<cbx33> ok you win :p
<lucasvo> pygi: well, this is not fully true.
<cbx33> it will be my little code name for it hahaha
<jsgotangco> frandavid100: well that's why there's add-on software
<ogra> probably juat "ltsp session manager"
<lucasvo> pygi: plugins, could be also suitable for cafe owners
<cbx33> no....we are targetting any ltsp users
<jsgotangco> "LSM"
<cbx33> lucasvo, ++
<cbx33> no more acroyms
<pygi> lucasvo: right, but I don't think we'll write plugins for caffe owners
<lucasvo> ogra: do people have to know what LTSP means?
<cbx33> pygi, why not?
<lucasvo> pygi: but other will
<pygi> that's not even secondary target
<cbx33> If i have time I'll try...if not...others may want to
<ogra> lucasvo, people that run ltsp and installed it should ... yes
<jsgotangco> why would you even give yourself a problem of users not knowing what ltsp means
<lucasvo> pygi: I know several people thinking of using ltsp for webcafe
<cbx33> pygi, thinkin of LTSP as a whole
<ogra> but you are right, it could even be more generic
<cbx33> not just the edubuntu side
<cbx33> it is available in ubuntu 
<cbx33> ltsp that is
<pygi> lucasvo: dude, we're not "Internet Caffe distro" 
<cbx33> so SCP should reflect that
<ogra> pygi, we are used in a bunch of cafes
<cbx33> no.....but this particualr app is cross distro
<lucasvo> pygi: no, but ltsp is not only an educational software
<cbx33> it could be used in ubun kubun and edubun
<pygi> ogra: perhaps that is true, but isn't our main goal education audience
<cbx33> it's application is to manage ltsp
<cbx33> not for SCP
<ogra> and you probably might want timed logouts in a school environment
<lucasvo> pygi: yes, but they don't care if it says client or student, if it still does the same function
<frandavid100> gotta do some work dudes, will see you later
<lucasvo> cya frandavid100 
<frandavid100> thanks for the good news
<cbx33> bye frandavid100 
<frandavid100> ;)
<cbx33> any more ideas
<cbx33> mail me
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> hmm
<cbx33> or mail the list
<cbx33> even better
<pygi> ogra: since I have some plans of organizing a Linux Education Conference in Croatia next year, I want to make Edubuntu strong in eyes of academic & school circles, not in the eyes of caffe owners
<ogra> Client Connection Control Panel -> CCCP
<lucasvo> cbx33: I'll come up with a UI suggestion, or anyone else want to do this?
<frandavid100> which list? edubuntu?
<cbx33> pygi, but
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> you're missing the point
<cbx33> the application itselft
<cbx33> whilst having a good application in the education sector
<cbx33> is also applicable to the cafe sector
<jsgotangco> "as a plugin"
<pygi> jsgotangco: right, AS A PLUGIN
<pygi> nothing else
<frandavid100> well I'll be back later to ask, bye!
<cbx33> we shouldn't budge people out of the cafe sector just because we want to call it Student Control Panel
<ogra> pygi, and if soemone asks you at this conf "how do i make sure my students are logged out after 15mins so i get their attention back" you can answer "install SCP-cafe" ;)
<lucasvo> pygi: yes, but a cafe plugin for a student control panel is not very logical
<pygi> lucasvo: whatever you do, dont replicate any existing UI's
<lucasvo> pygi: no, I won't
<pygi> ogra: o no, you'll be answering questions like that ;)
<ogra> haha
<cbx33> I've got to dash off for a while guys
<cbx33> really sorry
<cbx33> want to continue this discussion
<lucasvo> cya cbx33 
<pygi> cbx33: ok, look pm btw.
<cbx33> I propose
<jsgotangco> well if you ask my opinion (like its really important)
<pygi> ogra: just you laugh ^_^
<cbx33> SCP, SCP-education, SCP-cafe
<jsgotangco> ah what the heck, forget it
<cbx33> that kinda thing
<pygi> jsgotangco: shoot pls ;)
<lucasvo> cbx33: but scp eduction should be a meta package
<jsgotangco> cbx33: why the split?
<pygi> jsgotangco: for KDE UI :)
<jsgotangco> eekk
<lucasvo> yeah.
<cbx33> if someone could mail me a log of this convo
<cbx33> that would be great
<cbx33> bbl
<jsgotangco> mail it to yourself?
<pygi> ogra: and I've already got some SCP hacks in use at school where I implemented Edubuntu ;)
<ogra> pygi, make them available in bzr :)
<pygi> perhaps, but they are really in state of flux :)
<ogra> feisty will also be in state of flux ;)
<pygi> but I still don't think our primary audience is caffe :) 
<pygi> lol :)
<ogra> no
<ogra> not our primary audience
<ogra> but SCP should provide such features
<pygi> throught plugins :)
<ogra> indeed
<pygi> saw something about chat idea ... telepathy could be used, or tapioca to be exact
<ogra> chat ? 
<pygi> that's out of scope tho, most probably
<pygi> yup, dunno where I saw it in context of SCP :P
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> you can send messages already
<lucasvo> pygi: let's say it like this: we build an application suitable for every LTSP environment, but we only code the general part and the parts that are needed for educational things.
<pygi> ogra: right
<ogra> lucasvo, why should we restrict ourselves ? 
<cbx33> just watching
<lucasvo> pygi: what others do with it, is not our problem. but we don't want to lock them out wiht our design
<ogra> if someone wants to write freaky plugins he should just go ahead :)
<pygi> ogra: ;p; "_
<lucasvo> ogra: we = "edubuntu developers" while working 
<lucasvo> not while working for net cafe :)
<ogra> lucasvo, yes, but what forbids an edubuntu dev to implement a feature he likes :)
* pygi isn't an edubuntu dev, so he just has no influence on anything :)
* pygi can only propose things
<highvoltage> geez, I had so many questions for ogra now I can't remember them :)
<pygi> highvoltage: I had questions for you ages ago, and still no answer =)
<ogra> highvoltage, can you comment on 67356 ?
* highvoltage looks
<highvoltage> pygi: I often forget things over IRC, best is to use my e-mail, I use my inbox as a request tracker :)
<highvoltage> ogra: I can comment on the bug report itself just now, but I'll ask you here instead and then we can update
<lucasvo> ogra: I mean while he is working *for edubuntu*
<ogra> 67360 is really odd, we wont solve it before release ... gcompris needs to detect if vesa is running and disable xrandr in that specific case ...
<highvoltage> ogra: I didn't give the second card an IP address, I assumed it would choose one for me
<highvoltage> ogra: so I should manually supply an IP address?
<ogra> highvoltage, did it get one from your dhcp server ?
<highvoltage> ogra: nope
<ogra> no, i just want to know which range is used for the internet facing interface
<highvoltage> ogra: I plugged out my dhcp server at that stage
<ogra> oh
<ogra> why ?
<highvoltage> because I didn't want it to interfere with the installation
<highvoltage> most servers will probably be installed without an existing dhcp server?
<ogra> it cant interfere with a two NIC install 
<ogra> right, then it should offer you to define IPs manually
<highvoltage> it needs to work that way, so I tested it that way.
<highvoltage> I can test it again with dhcp server enabled.
<ogra> which you should do
<ogra> just give it a valid interface that up during install 
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> no matter how you do it
<ogra> the second one will then be configured 
<highvoltage> ok, I will try again
<ogra> if you skip the networking in d-i ltsp wont get any interface data
<ogra> so that behavior is correct
<highvoltage> ah, I see
<ogra> (if you skip it in d-i the complete network stack isnt loaded, no route and no ifconfig will work)
<highvoltage> aaah, that explains it. with my one test I did skip it. that makes sense now.
<ogra> one small design flaw is that it wont work if you use 192.168.0.X in the inet facing network
<ogra> thats why i asked for your IP data in the bug
<highvoltage> interesting, since I would've probably tested with 192.168.0.254 :)
<ogra> highvoltage, i'll be in and out all the day today, if you can catch Keybuk in -devel try to point him to the udev thing please
<highvoltage> ogra: will do.
<ogra> i was too much of a sissy to rewrite the complete dhcpd.conf in case you use 192.168.0.X :) i think i'll do that in feisty ... and just make it generate a new one
<ogra> the problem here is that dhcpd.conf is a conffile, so the ltsp package would complain on upgrades
<ogra> highvoltage, i cant reproduce your ldm session bug btw
<ogra> well, in case of metacity its a bit odd, MC has no right click menu and nothing ... so it starts up the window manage but you cant do anything ... i'm pondering to drop support for windowmanagers for now and only keep sessions in
<highvoltage> ogra: I had trouble rsyncing to the release candidate. is it possible that it might have been fixed since the 17'th? I could easily reproduce it :/
<ogra> RC is the iso 17.1 
<ogra> so its unlikely it changed
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> and there were no daily builds yet
<ogra> RFc is the last iso we have
<ogra> *RC
<jsgotangco> yep
<jsgotangco> 17th is our RC
<ogra> highvoltage, can you please note on 67356 that you disabled networking completely in d-i ?
<ogra> so people looking for that symptom in LP have something :)
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, I noted it and closed the bug, I don't think it's really a bug
<ogra> thanks :)
<highvoltage> that's something we'll have to note in an edubuntu installer guide too
<ogra> no, its a feature that it warned you .. the bug is probably that i should explain it more detailed in the message you get 
<highvoltage> (which I doubt we'll have ready before release)
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> but thats also unlikely to change before release
<ogra> in fact anything that requires more than a few lines of change is unlikely to go in
<ogra> thats why we wont get the gcompris thing fixed
<highvoltage> is that a vesa driver bug?
<ogra> it needs to detect vesa and disable xrandr 
<highvoltage> ah
<ogra> i dont think vesa is supposed to have xrandr support
<ogra> rodarvus could probably tell
<highvoltage> gcompris used to work fullscreen on vesa displays before
<highvoltage> perhaps it dodn't use xrandr before.
<ogra> ah, k then it sounds like a vesa bug indeed
<ogra> no, it always used xrandr for switching the screen
<ogra> s/screen/screen size/
<highvoltage> it's not a massive problem for my labs, since we have to run it windowed anyway, otherwise the xfce panels overlap with the fullscreen gcompris.
<highvoltage> so I can live with that one :)
<highvoltage> we should have a tips and tricks and bug workaround section on the website
<highvoltage> most of the issues are very easy to work around.
<lucasvo> damn!
<lucasvo> my inkscape just crashed after a 1/4h of work unsaved
<ogra> highvoltage, well, they simply shouldnt exist :)
<ogra> could you note that the gcompris thing is a regression from dapper ?
<highvoltage> I think it's actually possible to have 0 edubuntu-specific bugs.
<highvoltage> perhaps next release :)
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<ogra> well, the problem is that we will develop new features that will introduce new bugs :)
<highvoltage> true. I spoke to cbx33 earlier, as soon as feisty opens, we're going to start edubuntu-specifig hug/bug days.
<highvoltage> it will also be on wednesdays and be part of ubuntu bug days. then we can report on it conveniently in the wednesday meetings.
<highvoltage> so testing and bug hunting/fixing will happen way more frequently.
<ogra> please coordinate with sfllaw and dholbach for that 
<ogra> even though i like the idea, they are the bugsquad and should be able to veto that if they think its bringing to much fragmentation
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> we'll do it properly and through the right channels.
<ogra> great :)
<ogra> mmm, that we have syslogging enabled now really pays off :)
<ogra> (in ltsp)
<highvoltage> yes, it's very convenient and useful :)
<highvoltage> will help a *lot* for troubleshooting.
<highvoltage> our helpdesk guys will be very happy with that.
<ogra> btw, helpdesk ... 
<ogra> ah, no forget it ...
<highvoltage> please tell me ogra :)
<ogra> i was just thinking about a ticket system plugin that shows you open support tickes in SCP :) but that would require to focus on a single ticketsystem
<highvoltage> I see, so that an administrator could keep track of what's happening inside the lab, and of requests of the users?
<ogra> right
<ogra> its not so much a school feature
<ogra> but imagine a big office that runs on ltsp and has a helpdesk 
<highvoltage> nope. it would be marginally useful. but schools with part-time administrators would find it useful.
* highvoltage nods
<ogra> right
<highvoltage> I think that once LTSP moves into the offices, the LTSP feature requests will start to roll again.
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> instant messaging between users
<highvoltage> if all goes well my company will do a big office ltsp rollout next year
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> (not exactly jabber-type)
<pygi> jsgotangco: using fama im ;)
* ogra is afk
<pygi> jsgotangco: right? :)
<jsgotangco> hmm
* jsgotangco looks at fama im
<pygi> jsgotangco: I doubt you'll find it anywhere :)
<jsgotangco> what's that?
<pygi> http://www.fama-im.org ^_^
<jsgotangco> telepathy?
* pygi nods
<jsgotangco> Mario ani - Founder & CTO & Core developer
<jsgotangco> lol
<pygi> ^_^
<jsgotangco> ah tapioca powered
<jsgotangco> ive used tapioca
<pygi> jsgotangco: so what do you have against me? :P
<jsgotangco> err nothing?
<pygi> the "lol" thingy :)
<jsgotangco> well i thought you were promoting something not related to you
<pygi> nah =)
<pygi> jsgotangco: it's nothing yet tho, so I can't really promote it :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> well have a good day all
<jsgotangco> im going to retire early
<jsgotangco> see ya
<pygi> oki, bye :)
<juliux> ogra, should i open a bug report for the problem with the isa nics?
* highvoltage thinks it's highly unlikely that isa nics will ever be supported in Ubuntu
* juliux needs isa support
<highvoltage> and your pc's have no pci slots?
<juliux> it is a surfstation with an cyrix cpu and it has only isa slots
<juliux> re
<juliux> ogra, did you test the rangee thinclients with edgy?
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> how is everyone?
<pygi> very bad
<cbx33> y?
<pygi> doesn't matter, but very very very very bad
<P3L|C4N0> 69 -+/+
<highvoltage> pygi: :(
<juliux> :( my thinclients are not working with edgy
<achandra> hi guys...okay....I had installed edubuntu with dhcp/tftp/pxe and all looks to be good...however, when creating the etherboot part, I used the rom-o-matic tool and created a simple ISO for an e100 card popped it in and it keeps complaining about a no I386 bios found error...any ideas..?
<achandra> It also says boot from net or quit...but booting from net just returns to the same screen over and over 
<achandra> can someone help out??
<stelis> I can try
<achandra> stelis: im not sure if it is the "driver" or the fact i am testing on a P4 with HT as the client..(just to test) its a sony vaio RB
<achandra> stelis: it uses a "version of the e100" that is EB/EZ/ "
<achandra> I popped in the iso but no go...
<achandra> not sure what im doing wrong 
<stelis> The default version of Edubuntu prefers two NICs
<stelis> 1 for main use and 1 to be dedicated for thin client
<stelis> What happens when you install
<achandra> okay... as I just had turned off my "main dhcp server" on the other box a that acts as my firewall...and just made to sure that the edubuntu  one was up... 
<achandra> so it is a one nic setup on the edubuntu 
<stelis> OK
<achandra> so the lan looks like this -    DSL----FW------Edubuntu(dhcp)------LAN(workstations)-----thinclient(for testing) 
<achandra> so in effect all I am doing is trying to "pull" an unused address from the dhcp server on the edubuntu server and PXE off it....but the client totally bitches at me by saying i386 boot rom not found...bott from (N)etwork or (Q)uit 
<achandra> that typing N does nothing but return to the same prompt over and over again. 
<achandra> incompatible driver??
<achandra> the actual card itself is (0x8086)(0x1064) which is NOT on the list...there are variants but not the list for rom-o-matic 
<stelis> OK, so the client will be the Sony?
<achandra> yes
<stelis> What OS does it normally run?
<achandra> ubuntu...of course...lol...dapper
<achandra>  2.6.15-27-386
<stelis> OK, that means that there are least some Linux drivers :)
<achandra> right 
<achandra> in fact im using it now ;) 
<achandra> i figured okay..i know this work with ubuntu lets give a shot by making it a thin client... 
<stelis> Next silly question: Did you set the machine to boot from the network in the BIOS? 
<achandra> the bios doesnt have that feature...on the box 
<stelis> I hate Sony
<achandra> lol 
<achandra> it was cheap at fry's 
<achandra> $350 bones for the "floor" model 
<stelis> :)
<achandra> except there were no pretty chicks that came along with it...
<stelis> I see the attraction
<achandra> :) 
<stelis> Basically, anything made in the last 4 years should support PXE
<achandra> right 
<achandra> the problem is the school ill be working with has pretty old stuff too. 
<achandra> hence etherboot 
<stelis> Although it's often just labelled "LAN" or "Network" in the BIOS
<achandra> right....
<achandra> there is an enable "ROM" for network but i cant really seem to find the right F key to boot from network... 
<stelis> In all seriousness, about 5 years we bought boxes of NICs and replaced every card on the network with an PXE complient one
<achandra> I see 
<stelis> We figured it was well worth the expense
<achandra> okay 
<achandra> so when you popped em in, and say used etherboot for a "well known" card...it just automagically worked...with little or no prompting??
<stelis> It meant that we didn't need anything
<achandra> ohh...so the pxe capable cards....didnt require you to even need etherboot???
<stelis> A standard NIC supports PXE
<stelis> Yes :)
<achandra> how does that work??? 
<achandra> ie doesnt bios need to know about it??
<achandra> or???
<stelis> Just set "Network" in the BIOS as the default boot option, and start the machine?
<achandra> ahh....
<achandra> okay 
<achandra> right...assuning that option exists...lol 
<stelis> That's really all there is to it.
<stelis> Yeah :(
<achandra> otherwise....plug an pray 
<achandra> ;) 
<stelis> :)
<achandra> okay...I think it is very likely that the deal is that the driver version is just plain off... 
<achandra> ill pop in a known nic like realtek or something and try again... 
<achandra> any recommendations??
<achandra> for the NIC 
<achandra> ??
<stelis> Intel :)
<stelis> The E100 *should* just work
<achandra> lol 
<achandra> right...
<achandra> but i have the "special" sony one...damn 
<stelis> I suspect that the NIC chip would support PXE 
<achandra> okay...will check it out...thnx for your help... 
<stelis> But Sony may not have implemented support for it in their BIOS
<frandavid100> hi guys
<stelis> Hi there
<stelis> Funny issue here
<stelis> Do you have the Edgy version of Edubuntu?
<frandavid100> any student control panel devs around?
<lucasvo> frandavid100: you want to discuss something?
<frandavid100> hi lucasvo, yeah I was here this morning discussing SCP's possible use in internet cafes
<lucasvo> frandavid100: we currently want to start with classrooms
<lucasvo> what I suggest to do:
<lucasvo> split the spec up into three parts:
<lucasvo> * Core SCP
<lucasvo> * Edu SCP
<lucasvo> * Net Cafe SCP
<lucasvo> frandavid100: but if you don't find a developer, #3 won't get implemented
<frandavid100> cbx33 seemed relatively interested this morning
<lucasvo> frandavid100: yes
<lucasvo> could be
<frandavid100> people even talked about changing the name to make it more generic
<lucasvo> well anyway, if you would like to push it a little, I suggest, you create a spec about the spc usage for net cafes
<stelis> FWIW, I know about .edu rather than cafes but there may be an overlap
<stelis> We run day courses
<stelis> As in one day events
<frandavid100> I'll do that lucasvo, thanks for the suggestion
<stelis> And schools also rent out
<frandavid100> gotta leave, good night!
<lucasvo> stelis: well, things that overlap, would go into either one of the spec and would be referenced
<lucasvo> stelis: write down your ideas beneath this spec, if you want to help us:
<lucasvo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelSpec
<stelis> Thanks - will do
<lucasvo> stelis: thanks for contributing!
<stelis> Thank *you*
<stelis> Edubuntu Edgy is already amazing
<lucasvo> yeah it really is
<stelis> One thing I was wondering was about updating the chroots
<stelis> Currently I've been updating the main system the normal way
<lucasvo> stelis: easiest is sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386 ; sudo ltsp-build-client
<stelis> It is easier to just remake them each time then?
<stelis> I've currently been using aptitude inside the chroot
<stelis> Which is the documented way
<nathan_> Q. how can i set a HD which has a previous installation and upgraded programs to be a repository, so that a new HD wiht a fresh install and NOT-upgraded programs can see what teh changes are and upgrade them using the old HD info?
<nathan_> [sorry for typos] 
<BonBonTheJon> nathan_: I am trying to look up and answer for you
<stelis> By changes do you just mean new packages?
<stelis> You can dump packages directly into /var/cache/apt/archives and they will be used rather than downloaded agian
<stelis> again
<nathan_> stelis:  ok.... how do i do that?
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: does that work, I was thinking something with apt-cache
<nathan_> do you two need more info?
<stelis> I think it does
<stelis> nathan_: I'm just a slow typer
<stelis> I think if you just copy *.deb from /var/cache/apt/archives from the updated system to the new system 
<nathan_> Q. (:D im full of them today) I'm using x-chat gnome. When someone's name appears in yellow does that mean they are private messaging me?
<stelis> The archives/ directory has a subdirectory called partial that you don't want 
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: oh, its you again!
<stelis> Not sure - I use Gaim
<chovynz> hi BonBonTheJon
<chovynz> O.o you can use Gaim for irc?
<stelis> Yes
<stelis> And Jabber/Google Talk
<stelis> It does all the IM protocols
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: I was thinking of apt-proxy, not apt-cache
<chovynz> lol. ok thnx for info. I DL x-chat just so i could talk here :D
<stelis> BonBonTheJon: OK. I'm fairly new to APT 
<stelis> Don't know all the tools yet
<BonBonTheJon> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptProxy
<BonBonTheJon> apt-proxy is like a little repository, I think
<BonBonTheJon> the client gets packages from apt-proxy
<chovynz> I dont really want to find all the apps that have been upgraded....I'd like linux to do that for me while i go eat lunch :D
<BonBonTheJon> I've never used it, but it sounds like it would work
<stelis> That looks really useful
<stelis> The problem with Edubuntu is you have run updates twice
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: not with this, it sounds like
<stelis> Once for the main system , and once for the thin client
<stelis> Yup
<stelis> I'll have to play with this
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon:  are you using x-chat or other?
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: I am using Konversation
<BonBonTheJon> I use KDE, I've never tried Edubuntu before
<stelis> chovynz: just dump all the .deb files into the cache
<stelis> APT should work it out
<chovynz> stelis:  how do i do that? (im a linux newbie)
<stelis> Have you got a pen drive?
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: are these computers on the same network
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: the HD are in the same computer
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: even better, mount the other HD and copy them over
<chovynz> um....ill explain my situation as it is now not as it was yesterday :)
<BonBonTheJon> ok
<chovynz> my 80g is now running EDU. it is the master. It has a fresh install of EDU onto it and "old" programs
<chovynz> 8g is the slave and runs EDU when i boot from it. It has the "upgraded" apps that i want on my new HD
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: mount the 8GB and copy the .deb files
<chovynz> ...without having to DL them all again
<chovynz> ok. 8g is mounted. how do i copy?
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: open the file manager as root
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: where did you mount the 8GB
<chovynz> /mnt/hdb1
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: I have DL apt-proxy
<BonBonTheJon> well, either go thru the tutorial I linked to for apt-proxy, or just copy all the .deb files from  /var/cache/apt/archives to /mnt/hdb1/var/cache/apt/archives
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: otherway around for the manual way? my 80g master is where i want all the upgraded apps to go...
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: yeah, the files from 8GB on /mnt/hdb1/var/cache/apt/archives to 80GB on  /var/cache/apt/archives
<chovynz> then what....do something in the synaptic package manager? how do i set that /var/cache/apt/archives as a repository
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: refresh synaptic and hopefully it will see the updated files
<stelis> chovynz: Every package that you download goes into that directory before it gets used 
<stelis> Like a browser cache
<stelis> If APT decides it needs a packages thats already in the cache it won't download it again
<stelis> So if you install a package, remove it and then reinstall
<stelis> It can also reuse the orginal package
<chovynz> o.O
<chovynz> does that mean i need to remember all the pacakges i've upgraded?
<chovynz> *typo
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: It means you DONT need to remember them, the computer will do it all for you
<stelis> I'm confused...
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: try it and see
<chovynz> If I have overwritten the local cache with the old upgraded cache, then there wont be a record of teh OTHER packages i've downloaded, which are separate from the old upgraded ones....correct?
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: it will look at the version numbers
<chovynz> AND the upgrade manager will incorrectly tell me that my progs are upgraded when they aren't. correct?
<stelis> APT just tracks the versions of the packages that are installed
<stelis> Plus those available from the network
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: no, there is a list of installed software, and there is a directory of packages
<stelis> The cache is just holding pen
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: it will look at your packages, compare it to the list of installed software, see you have a newer version, and install it
<chovynz> stelis & BonBonTheJon:  um ok....well i dont really know what to do now. I have copied the upgraded cache to my cache dir. How do i get those packages to be installed? When i went to SPM it told my that my app versions are the upgraded version, but i know thats not right cause i haven't installed anything yet.
<stelis> Run sudo aptitude update
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did you reload/refresh the sources
<chovynz> done that now
<chovynz> are you telling me its done?
<chovynz> or is there something else im missing?
<stelis> First you update/refresh the sources
<chovynz> updates. done
<stelis> Then upgrade
<chovynz> stelis: how do I upgrade?
<chovynz> it tells me my installed versions are the updated ones....but i know that cant be yet
<stelis> Either SPM, or at the command-line: sudo aptitude dist-upgrade
<chovynz> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavail able)
<chovynz> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another proc ess using it?
<stelis> You need the "sudo" bit
<chovynz> did that
<lucasvo> chovynz: is aptitude still running?
<chovynz> not sure....synaptic was...i've just closed that
<chovynz> ok it allowed me now. but it said 0 packages neede to be upgraded
<chovynz> I have over 100megs of upgraded packages.....it can't be done already....
<chovynz> can it?
<stelis> No
<chovynz> so.......im.....lost :D
<stelis> OK - this is easier to see and follow on the command-line
<chovynz> aiighty...ill follow command line
<stelis> The first command is "sudo aptitude update" 
<chovynz> done
<stelis> This downloads lists of the packages available from network repositories
<stelis> Then "sudo aptitude dist-upgrade"
<chovynz> done
<stelis> This checks the installed system against the list of repository packages
<chovynz> "Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 0B will be used."
<stelis> OK - it thinks that your installed system is current
<stelis> So it doen't nned to do anything
<chovynz> I know. Which i also know is incorrect.
<chovynz> :\
<chovynz> unless......
<stelis> Have you edited the software sources?
<chovynz> during installation would it have DL the newest version anyway?
<chovynz> from the Internet? 
<chovynz> yes i did try to edit the software sources "sources.list?"  But i didnt delete anything...i only added /mnt/hdb1 as a line. SPM threw a spasm so i deleted that line.
<stelis> The default installation doesn't upgrade the packages.
<chovynz> stelis: ok. that what i thought. Thnx for confirming
<stelis> sources.list is the list of repositories to get downloads from
<stelis> I wonder if it's broken
<chovynz> ok well thats the only file i've tampered with (knowingly)
<chovynz> and the only thing i put in i took out. so it should be ok now
<LaserJock> the easiest thing is to pastebin your sources.list file so people can see
<BonBonTheJon> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<chovynz> ok.
<chovynz> so i cat sources.list then pastebin?
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: that will work
<chovynz> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27887/
<stelis> That's the problem
<chovynz> (im thinking I need to be on here 24/7 till i get the hang of linux :D)
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: I see why you were on-line when it was 2 am. here, you are in New Zealand
<stelis> There's a lot of docs
<chovynz> true BonBonTheJon
<stelis> But the problem is definitely that file
<chovynz> stelis: how do you mean?
<stelis> See the # ?
<chovynz> yes?
<stelis> At the beginning of lines
<chovynz> those are comments. they dont affect the 
<stelis> Something has commented out the network repositories
<chovynz> those comments are set by SPM when you turn it on or off
<stelis> He's got no active repositories are part from deb-src
<stelis> For source code
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: how about this sources.list http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27889/
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: at seems like it would be a better list
<stelis> The original had universe enabled
<chovynz> strange. my sources list is what was default. is it not very good?
<stelis> It was until SPM edited it :)
<stelis> SPM disabled all the main network repositories
<chovynz> hmmm...that might've been me too :) i unchecked everything so i could try my HD mount as a repository
<stelis> PBKAC
<stelis> Problem Between Keyboard and Chair :)
<BonBonTheJon> stelis: my pastebin had universe enabled
<chovynz> so...c&p BonBonTheJon's sources list into my sources.list?
<chovynz> stelis: lol...yeah im that often
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: make a backup of the sources.list
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: save it as something like sources.list.102206 or something
<chovynz> done
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did you copy and paste my sources.list
<chovynz> doing so
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: ok, then opne synaptic and reload/refresh
<chovynz> E: Type '01.' is not known on line 1 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: lol, oops, instead of copying from the top on the webpage, copy from the bottom
<chovynz> heh
<chovynz> did that read some html there?
<chovynz> LOL it copied the line numbers
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: pastebin automatically numbers the line
<BonBonTheJon> s
<chovynz> ok done
#edubuntu 2007-10-15
<PaperbagOverFace> :D
<PaperbagOverFace> Welcome to Microsoft tech support. Please wait for the next available customer service agent. Please have your license key ready. You can find the license key on the certificate of authenticity. Depending on the number of prime factors of the number, the agent will tell you to reboot or reinstall.
* PaperbagOverFace likes Edubuntu.
<PaperbagOverFace> Best OS.
<kgoetz> hehe
* kgoetz giggles at your wikipedia problem
<sbalneav> Evening all
<kgoetz> allo
<sbalneav> Bug #106418
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 106418 in linux-source-2.6.20 "2.6.20-15 still won't boot" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/106418
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<bddebian> heya
<sonjag> Just wondering why.... last week I noticed that my server running edubuntu 7.04 was only recognizing 3G of its 6G of RAM. Of course the issue is that is has the generic kernel, not the server. I thought the edubuntu server install was built to, well, be a server. Why did it inlcude the generic kernel? Did I misunderstand the intent? Did I install incorrectly? Just curious to avoid the same mistake in the future. Thanks.
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
#edubuntu 2007-10-16
<highvoltage> morning RichEd
<RichEd> hi highvoltage
<juliux> morning
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage RichEd and juliux
<RichEd> hey LaserJock & juliux
<kgoetz> arvo
* RichEd is back from an epic trip to Georgia ... and does not recommend using eTickets for travel
<highvoltage> hey LaserJock, juliux and kgoetz
<LaserJock> RichEd: lots of fun eh?
<highvoltage> RichEd: why not?
<RichEd> when the border passport control cannot see proof of an onward flight (one of them red tickety things) they won't let you out of the country
<LaserJock> the US is going all electronic soon
<kgoetz> highvoltage: hey mate
<RichEd> they are still under the mindset that you travel by the grace of the government allowing you a privelage
* RichEd decided not to give them the capitalist "me customer, you give me happy friendly service because my money pays your job"
<stgraber> Gutsy candidates ISO are ready for testing
<Nuba1> hi there...
<Nuba1> So I've installed Gutsy RC and have problems trying to connect my thin clients... I've compiled the feisty distro in the /opt/ltsp/i386 chroot because only feisty will read my graphics cards
<Nuba1> the ATI X1450 is not supported in xorg 7.3, which is what comes natively in Gutsy
<Nuba1> hi ogra
<Nuba1> (12:23:11 PM) Nubae: So I've installed Gutsy RC and have problems trying to connect my thin clients... I've compiled the feisty distro in the /opt/ltsp/i386 chroot because only feisty will read my graphics cards
<Nuba1> (12:23:33 PM) Nubae: the ATI X1450 is not supported in xorg 7.3, which is what comes natively in Gutsy
<Nuba1> I get connection refused when they startup
<Nuba1> I'm assuming this is because feisty is expecting nfs and Gutsy only does nbd... is this assumption correct?
<Nuba1> can someone help me please :-(
<Nuba1> I've spent days trying to get this working, there was of course, no mention anywhere that from feisty to gutsy suddenly fglrx was not supported anymore...
<Nuba1> I understand its not used much in thin clients, but surely there must be more people than me trying to use fglrx, whether it be thin or fat clients
<sbalneav> Morning all
<RichEd> hey scotty :)
<ogra> sbalneav, something to play with: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/40804/
<ogra> (save as ltsp-chroot, make it executable and be able to run: sudo ./ltsp-chroot xterm)
<ogra> now we just need synapic in the chroot ;)
<ogra> and have full gui package management for ltsp clients ;)
<sbalneav> ogra: So, this isn't local apps, right?
<ogra> no, thats chroot maintenance
<sbalneav> right, got it.
<sbalneav> Cool
<sbalneav> How's the CMPC going?
<ogra> not at all yet, to much release stress atm
<ogra> i hope to have all isos fine tonight, then i can look into other stuff
<ogra> whithout release there is no CMPC :)
<ogra> btw, forst -desktop-i386 install done :)
<ogra> *first
<ogra> lets see if it boots :)
<bddebian> Heya
<stgraber> ogra: is there any known bug for Edubuntu LTSP that could cause a misdetection of my graphic card ?
<ogra> stgraber, intel ?
<stgraber> ogra: running at 1280x1024 instead of 1680x1050
<stgraber> ogra: yes
<ogra> might be it detects the i810 driver for it instead of the intel one
<stgraber> ok, will try to override it in lts.conf and see if that helps
<ogra> thats likely bug 149006 as well
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149006 in ltsp "ltsp does not configure xorg.conf correctly" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149006
<cberlo> Hi folks.  Got a quick question (I hope):  how can you figure out who's actually logged in to an Edubuntu LTSP session?  Clients are connected through LDM (the default) and thus do not show up in the "who" listing.
<ogra> thin client manager
<stgraber> ogra: using XSERVER=intel fixed it
<cberlo> ogra: Okay, and that' won't fly on a command line...  :)  Need a script to do some cleanup work at logout.  Can't figure out who's logged in, though.
<ogra> it has a commandline tool as well
<ogra>  scp-remote --help
<ogra> stgraber, yeah, thats what i thought, thanks :)
<stgraber> ogra: receiving "Connection refused" when trying to play a sound :(
<cberlo> ogra: Thanks.  Looks like that will work for me.  :)
<stgraber> ogra: pulseaudio isn't running on the client :(
<ogra> oh
<ogra> thats a fresh install ?
<stgraber> yes
<ogra> meh
<ogra> i havent managed finishing a server install yet
<ogra> vbox isnt nice to me today
<ogra> two desktop install were fine though
<stgraber> I logged as root on a thin client, soundcard is correctly detected but looking at ps aux there is no pulseaudio :(
<ogra> weird
<ogra> any errors on any of the consoles ?
<stgraber> do you know what's the exact command used to start pulseaudio ?
<ogra> pulse usually pops them up in red
<ogra> thats tricky since we use hardcoded options ... look in the ltsp-client-core initscript, its a whole bunch
<stgraber> ogra: pulse works well, it's just not launched ...
<ogra> hmm
<stgraber> ogra: I typed the exact same command as there is in the ltsp-client-core.install and it worked
<stgraber> .init I mean
<ogra> i assume you didnt create an lts.conf saying SOUND=False
<stgraber> indeed, I first thought that the problem could come from there so I tried without any SOUND (default), then with SOUND=yes and SOUND=true (current)
<stgraber> none of them worked
<ogra> thats pretty strange
<ogra> without any should work fine
<ogra> SOUND=True should do as well
<ogra> are ltspfsd and cdpinger runnng on the client ?
<stgraber> ltspfsd yes, cdpinger no
<ogra> you dont have a cdrom ?
<stgraber> I have one (serial-ata)
<ogra> (it should start if /dev/cdrom exists)
<stgraber> /dev/cdrom exists and points to scd0
<ogra> hmm, anyway, ltspfsd runs so the configure_localdev function was executed ...
<stgraber> ogra: running : cdpinger cdrom
<ogra> ok
<stgraber> worked fine, I just don't see why it doesn't automatically start
<stgraber> nah, it's not ok :)
<ogra> i think scott made it start from ldm scripts as well, so that does no harm
<ogra> ah, no, thats delayed mounter
<stgraber> I had to run the cdpinger by hand, but running it with the command there is in ltsp-client-core.init worked
<stgraber> that's what I don't understand
<stgraber> it's supposed to have executed the exact same command ...
<ogra> righ, me neither
<ogra> the thing is that absolutely nothing changed between RC and today
<stgraber> I'm pretty sure I had sound on that same computer with RC :(
<ogra> the last change i made to ltsp was 8 days ago ... RC is five days ago
<ogra> i suspec a race condition ...
<ogra> something is gotten slower or faster during boot ... that exposes it ...
<ogra> probably udev
<stgraber> rebooting without the lts.conf (just in case)
<ogra> you could try to add a "sleep 5" before the localdev and sound functions (after the screenscripts are run)
<ogra> (in the ltsp-client-core initscript)
<stgraber> hmm, got sound this time
<ogra> yeah, race condition ... :/
<stgraber> I hate that :)
<ogra> indicates a prob with udev
<ogra> i guess cdpinger wasnt up because there was no /dev/cdrom when it was started
<ogra> same for sound
<ogra> but dont quote me on that ...
<ogra> need to see it myself
<ogra> sounds like something to fix in an SRU#
<ogra> -#
<stgraber> yeah, got both sound and high res this time :)
<stgraber> and cdpinger running
<stgraber> will try to reproduce the no sound, no cdpinger thing
<stgraber> reproduced :)
<stgraber> just had to reboot once
<stgraber> but well, my client is a Core2Duo 2.0Ghz with tons of RAM (2GB), not really the usual thin client as of performance :)
<stgraber> ogra: I could add a : ls /dev > /var/log/debugltsp to the init script to check if your theory is right, no ?
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> but te ls will likely take longer than the race takes
<stgraber> I'll put it after the cdpinger so it won't slow down the boot, just have to hope that the device won't show up between the cdpinger and the ls
<stgraber> argh, too bad the server isn't as fast as the client :), mksquashfs takes some time
<stgraber> ogra: it worked !!! :)
<stgraber> ogra: I've put a : ls /dev/cdrom > /var/log/ltspdebug
<stgraber> ogra: after boot, still no sound and /var/log/ltspdebug exists but is empty
<ogra> reboot again until you have a cd
<stgraber> ogra: so the file didn't exist at this point
<ogra> and see if it corellates
<stgraber> confirmed
<stgraber> I just had a "slow" boot and have /dev/cdrom in the ltspdebug file
<stgraber> (boot is <10s on this computer)
<ogra> ah, well
<ogra> i never test on suc speedy stuff :)
<ogra> i have nothing here that boots faster than 30 secs
<stgraber> oh, just something I noticed while testing Edubuntu, is that normal that we have a "switch user" option ?
<stgraber> it doesn't work at all on LTSP and show two error messages, a first one that explain why it doesn't work and a second weird one
<ogra> oh
<ogra> it shouldnt offer any options
<ogra> just sit there and show your username
<ogra> at least on LTSP clients
<ogra> Bug 137980
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137980 in fast-user-switch-applet "fusa should respect thin clients and not offer user switching but show the logged in username" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137980
<ogra> that was supposed to be fixed
<stgraber> not talking about f-u-s-a
<stgraber> but the close session options
<stgraber> fusa works as expected
<stgraber> that's the close session options that still show a "Switch User" option (next to Log Out and Lock Screen)
<ogra> eek
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> i never thought about that
<stgraber> one more thing to fix for Hardy :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> for now a sleep in the init would do as workaround in case you really have such fast clients in day to day use
<stgraber> my clients are usually 200Mhz for the fastest so it won't really be a problem :)
<stgraber> Which source is affected by the second bug (Switch User) ? ltsp too ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> ah well
<ogra> yeah, make it ltsp as well, as we'll likely need to set the triggeres
<ogra> i'm not sure whats the logout dialog though ...
<ogra> either gnome-panel or gnome-session
<stgraber> ogra: bug 153355 and bug 153356
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153355 in ltsp "No sound and CD-Rom on fast thin client" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/153355
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153356 in ltsp ""Switch User" option available in the close session box" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/153356
<ogra> thanks :)
* ogra goes afk for a while while another -server vbox install runs
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<ogra> wonderful
* ogra has a working vbox -server-i386 install that drives a vbox thin client now :)
<LaserJock> nice
<stgraber> ogra: last time I tried edubuntu on VBox I had 1GB ram assigned to the VM and worked fine. But I remember having some problem under VBox (not real hardware) with "only" 512MB
<ogra> i use 320 atm
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<bkj> Where can i found more detailed review of edubuntu, whats included on the cd what programs what tools?
#edubuntu 2007-10-17
<RichEd> flint: pray explain or elucidate for lesser mortals ?
<RichEd> ogra: I presume that users would be advised to read the ubuntu 7.10 release notes as well as ours ?
<flint> RichEd, Versionitus is a disease where you are compelled to run the latest bleeding edge of whatever version of software takes your fancy.  Elkner practically invented this disease.
<LaserJock> RichEd: hmm, that seems like too much reading
<LaserJock> :-)
<RichEd> oh ... like donald trump and wives ?
<LaserJock> haha
<flint> RichEd, you mentioned that you were interested in early adopters of 7.10.  He is  a prime candidate...
<RichEd> he upgrades when the software becomes bloatware ;)
<flint> RichEd, we here in the colonies refer to him as "The Donald"...
<flint> RichEd, eh, it is worse than that.  It is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder applied to version control...
<RichEd> flint: or "him with *the* hair"
<flint> RichEd, Elkner has "version lack of control" or Versionitus1
<flint> Versionitus!
<flint> RichEd, that said he is a bright light for Edubuntu in DC.
<RichEd> flint good to hear ...
 * RichEd is slightly busy with release notes / announcements so forgive any tardy response to the banter
<RichEd> (i'd hate to get too distracted and mail cr@ppola to our faithful audience)
<Ziroday> Will new version of edubuntu be released same time as ubuntu?
<stgraber> Ziroday: yes
<Burgundavia> yes
<Ziroday> thanks
<JordanC> :-)
<yotux> I installed edubuntu 7.10 and get not ltsp boot
<stgraber> hmm, what build was that ? (the beta is known to have that kind of problem)
<yotux> I installed off a beta
<yotux> I am not a RC1 + I think
<yotux> I am running the fix found on the ubuntu page
<stgraber> yotux: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20071016/gutsy-server-i386.iso
<yotux> think I may still be in trouble I have two nics and only one is configured
<stgraber> yotux: this is the ISO that'll likely be that final Gutsy
<yotux> I am using a 64bit ISO
<stgraber> yotux: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20071016/gutsy-server-amd64.iso
<stgraber> then
<yotux> Is it ok to download form there?
<stgraber> sure, that's the current Gutsy candidate, as there is no critical bug it'll be renamed and published as the final one tomorrow
<yotux> ok
<yotux> So I can do everything in edubuntu that I can in ubuntu expect it already has ltsp installed in it
<yotux> plus education software :)
<yotux> is there a place that I can read to find out what is on the addon cd
#edubuntu 2007-10-18
<stgraber> yotux: the exact content is here : http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20071016/gutsy-serveraddon-amd64.list
<stgraber> yotux: it's mainly langpacks and eductional softwares
<yotux> I was reading the wiki for fiesty thankz I am downloading the daily image that you recommended then I will re-install
<yotux> edubuntu used two nics correct?
<LaserJock> yotux: the addon CD has KDE Edu, gcompris, tuxpaint, tuxmath, etc.
<LaserJock> as well as some accessories like epiphany, screem, tomboy, etc.
<yotux> I could get those from the repos also?
<LaserJock> of course
<stgraber> yotux: yes, the one you select during the install is the one connected to the internet
<LaserJock> everything in Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, and Xubuntu come from the same repos
<stgraber> yotux: the other will have a dhcp server running and will listen for your clients to boot
<yotux> that is what I thought LaserJock
<LaserJock> yotux: we are one big community
<LaserJock> the different CDs just allow for easier installation and setup
<yotux> I have an on board Giga nic and a standard nic in a pci
<yotux> so I wanted to server dhcp over giga ether rather than 100mb based network
<stgraber> right, so just select the standard NIC at the beginning of the install and the DHCP will be running on the giga one
<yotux> cool does the wiki cover how to configure grub if a system doesn't support net booting?
<yotux> and I am having a hard time finding giga ether card that support PXE booting
<stgraber> you can simply use a floppy disk to act as a PXE rom
<stgraber> (or put the floppy image on a HDD)
<yotux> ok where would I go to get the PXE ROM
<stgraber> rom-o-matic.net
<yotux> thankz
<DrX> anyone have any ideas on why none of my systems can see (ping, http, etc) each other even tho they're all on the same subnet & snm & tried two different working switches (everything can see one managed switch/router)?
<yotux> do I have to setup my second eth connection after a fresh install?
<Burgundavia> yotux: if it was physically in the system, all you really need to do is to setup a static ip on it (the one that goes to the clients)
<yotux> ok this is what I am doing,  I just wanted to check to see if the install missed something
<Burgundavia> do you see both cards?
<Burgundavia> if there is nothing plugged into the card, it may be brought up
<Burgundavia> may not be, rather
<yotux> yes  eth0 has no ip eth1 has a dhcp
<yotux> do I need to set broadcast, and network for the static
<Burgundavia> you need an ip, network and default gateway at a minimum
<yotux> I am getting the dhcp but I am not getting the tftp being passed
<yotux> Think that I will try the reboot and see if this fixes things.  be back in 5
<yotux> my PXE boot is not giving any files to the dhcp client
<yotux> is there a TFTP bug for guyst?
<kgoetz> yotux: so the client gets a dhcp address?
<yotux> yes
<yotux> get error PXE-T01 - file not found
<kgoetz> and tftpd is running?
<kgoetz> ok
<yotux> sorry to ask how can I check this
<kgoetz> just a tic
<kgoetz> yotux: check if you have '/etc/default/tftpd-hpa'
<kgoetz> if you do, check its OPTIONS= line
<yotux> I have it
<kgoetz> what does it have?
<yotux> run deamon * no
<yotux> RUN_DAEMON="no"
<yotux> OPTIONS="-l -s /var/lib/tftpboot"
<kgoetz> cool.
<yotux> look normal?
<kgoetz> so now run `ls -lh /var/lib/tftpboot/`
<kgoetz> yes
<kgoetz> do you have an 'ltsp' directory?
<yotux> yes
<kgoetz> so now run `ls -lh /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/`
<yotux> ok
<kgoetz> sorry,  `ls -lh /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg/`
<yotux> as sudo correct
<kgoetz> do you have a 'default' file in there?
<kgoetz> no, you dont need sudo
<yotux> last on no such file
<yotux> ls -lh /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg/
<yotux> the line above doesn't exist
<kgoetz> odd/problematic
<yotux> how can I get this file
<yotux> its a fresh install from cd 20071016
<kgoetz> yotux: do you have a 'pxelinux.0' in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp ?
<kgoetz> if you run 'dpkg -l |grep syslinux' do you get a hit
<yotux> /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.0 is there
<kgoetz> um. i havent got an architecture on mine :|
<yotux> dkpg command gets nothing
<kgoetz> i have ia32 clients, and they just use 'ltsp' as their root
<yotux> I am running the 64bit version
 * kgoetz wonders if this is somethin new from his dapper system
<yotux> so should I down grade to the 32bit edition
<kgoetz> not necesarily
<kgoetz> just i'm only goign to be of limited help
<yotux> should  make a bug report?
<kgoetz> hang around here, with luck someone familar with teh newer version will be able to help
<yotux> ok
<RichEd> hi ogra ... all looking good for go ?
<ogra> i didnt hear differently :)
<ogra> happy release day everybody :)
<kgoetz> congrats :)
<ogra> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/build/Edubuntu thats the best testing status we ever had :)
 * RichEd leads a long round of applause to ogra & his meny helpers
<RichEd> *many even :)
<ogra> all tests done (aprt from the one with amd64 thin clients :P )
<stgraber> indeed, I don't have 64bit server here :)
<ogra> well, who has 64bit clients is the question :)
<ogra> (amd64 only builds an amd64 client chroot ....)
<Burgundavia> rocking
<RichEd> hi corey
<RichEd> ogra ... do we want to list the feature highlights in the announcement email ?
<RichEd> it does make it a bit long
<RichEd> the alternative is to put them on the web news page, and refer to that in the mail ?
<ogra> should suffice to have it on the -710 page
<RichEd> okay ... will put them in the news page and the release notes page ... easier to read in a "pretty" web format than a text mail
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> RichEd, "the latest LTSP server modules " sounds a bit strange
<ogra> (modules specifically)
<RichEd> make a suggestion for text then ?
<ogra> "http://wiki.edubuntu.org/GutsyReleaseNotes" ??
<ogra>  Edubuntu release notes: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/GutsyReleaseNotes
<ogra> thats wrong
<ogra> (a) its the ubuntu release notes, b) it will get wiped as soon as it moved to www.ubuntu.com)
<ogra> that should point to our page on www.edubuntu.org
<RichEd> ogra: we spoke about our own release notes page for the few bug issues ?
<RichEd> we did this for 6.10
<RichEd> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdgyReleaseNotes
<ogra> which doesnt work :)
<ogra> that name is taken by ubuntu already
<RichEd> ahhhh ... so lets go with: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/GutsyReleaseNotes/Edubuntu ?
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/GutsyReleaseNotes/Edubuntu might work
<RichEd> snap
<ogra> :)
 * RichEd updates the task list page and announcement mail
<RichEd> ogra: "the latest LTSP server modules" <- whaddya want this to say ?
<ogra> s/modules/implementation/  ?
<ogra> not sure that cuts it though
<ogra> how about "the latest in LTSP thin client technology"
<RichEd> luvverly
<ogra> ok :)
<pips1> hi folks
<pips1> happy release day :-)
<ogra> happy release day pips1
<stormzoeker> same to you pips1
<pips1> RichEd: I read the release announcement, looks fine, nothing to add from my side, except what you have already discussed with ogra
<RichEd> thanks ... slight mods being done but the body remains as is
<RichEd> note also for the release news on the web site, I am preparing the content now
<ogra> RichEd, btw, you did forget to list ubuntu-announce
<RichEd> i'd just like you to format it as per: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/7.04-release
<RichEd> ogra: do Ubuntu and Edubuntu and Kubuntu all send their own mail ?
 * RichEd remembers last time waiting for someone to release it for me ... so I think we did
<ogra> i think for the mail announcement thats true, yes
 * pips1 is busy accessing all the URL mentioned in the announcement...
<pips1> question: do you want the edubuntu release notes on a wiki page, or on the e.org site?
<ogra> hmm, good question
<ogra> ubuntu has it on the website
<pips1> yes
<pips1> if it is a wiki page, we should perhaps lock that page dow
<pips1> down
<pips1> ?
<pips1> so perhaps the website is more appropriate?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> RichEd, ?
 * pips1 wonders how it was done last release
 * RichEd checks how the last one was done
<ogra> wiki
<ogra> or even merged with ubuntu
<RichEd> pips1: this was 6.04
<RichEd> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdgyReleaseNotes
<ogra> 6.10 :)
<RichEd> i mean 6.10
<RichEd> 7.04 we just referred to ubuntu's
<pips1> correct
<LaserJock> I ripped off the Handbook Addon CD page for http://www.edubuntu.org/node/41
<LaserJock> I'm gonna flesh it out here in a sec
<RichEd> we could use the web site, but then it means that edits would need to go via you pips1
<RichEd> if we use the wiki page, it means ogra and others who are involved can edit/update
<RichEd> those are comments, not a decision ... i'll go with a consensus ?
<RichEd> ogra, pips1, LaserJock ?
<ogra> i think it looks better to have it on the webpage
<LaserJock> surely the release notes shouldn't change much, if at all
<pips1> same here
<pips1> so let's go for web page
<LaserJock> I'm very much of the opinion that it's good to use edubuntu.org for "official" and/or static material
<RichEd> okay ...
 * RichEd goes to change the links and task page
<pips1> LaserJock: can you please quickly read the text of the current /Download page and tell me if you have any change suggestions? If not, I will only replace 7.04 with 7.10....
<pips1> ^^^ ogra RichEd please do the same, if you have the time
<RichEd> http://www.edubuntu.org/GutsyReleaseNotes/Edubuntu <- this now is quite a redundant web URL
<pips1> it's the most important page...
<RichEd> going with: http://www.edubuntu.org/ReleaseNotes/7.10 <- okay pips1 ogra
<ogra> yep
<pips1> yes
<LaserJock> pips1: yes, I do have a change
<pips1> LaserJock: shoot
<LaserJock> "If you install Edubuntu using the Desktop CD you will find the educational software by using the Classroom Server Add-on CD below."
<pips1> where shall i add that?
<LaserJock> that's what is now in the Desktop CD section
<pips1> oh
<pips1> so what is your suggested text?
<LaserJock> but since we fixed the bug where the edu package weren't being installed
<LaserJock> it should be like "... you will find additionall educationa software on the Classroom Server Add-on CD below."
<LaserJock> but spelled correctly ;-)
<pips1> so the difference is the word "additional"
<ogra> RichEd, here is the buglist for the page ... https://wiki.edubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/ReleaseNotes/Edubuntu
<RichEd> LaserJock: drop the additional entirely ... that sound supplemental ... when as per our chat last night the Add-on has the bulk of the edu apps
 * RichEd thinks of a better adjective
<LaserJock> RichEd: but that's not the case for the Desktop CD
<RichEd> okay
<LaserJock> Classroom Server has no edu apps
<ogra> (feel free to move whereve you want it ;) )
<LaserJock> Dekstop CD has some, but not all
 * pips1 waits for decision and carries on with other stuff in the mean time
<pips1> ogra: our current text says "Edubuntu 6.06.1 [...] is supported for 3 years". The ubuntu announcement uses a year to indicate the "cut-off" date for security support. Should I change "supported for 3 years" to "supported until 2009" ? which is perhaps more clear?
<pips1> RichEd: ^^^ what do you think?
<ogra> sounds reasonable
<RichEd> pips1: there was a comment on LTS in the ubuntu release ... let me check
<RichEd> pips1: this is the wording in the ubuntu release
<pips1> what is the "cut-off" date for edubuntu 7.10 support?
<RichEd> <quote>
<RichEd> Ubuntu 7.10 will be supported for 18 months on both desktops and servers.
<RichEd> Users requiring a longer support lifetime on servers may choose to continue
<RichEd> using Ubuntu 6.06 LTS, with security support until 2011, rather than upgrade
<RichEd> to or install 7.10.
<RichEd> <endquote>
<pips1> yes
<RichEd> so I suggest:
<RichEd> "Edubuntu 6.06.1 [...] is supported until 2009 on the desktop and security support until 2011
<RichEd> ??
<ogra> 2011 doesnt apply to edubuntu-server
<pips1> RichEd: nope
<pips1> edubuntu-server 6.06.1 is only supported until 2009.
<RichEd> pips1: okay ... the suggestion is from me, make it a date, and make it the right one :)
<ogra> right
<pips1> so now we are in a special situation, that edubuntu-server 7.10 is actually also supported until 2009. so the edubuntu LTS isn't supported longer than the latest edubuntu release...
<ogra> therre are some server bits we 'll go on to support past 2009 ... but the general edubuntu-server  falls under "desktop support" due to its need for desktop apps installed
<ogra> so 2009 is right
<pips1> but since "edubuntu-server" doesn't have the "full" long-term support... in our case, both LTS and latest now are supported until 2009!
<pips1> so I need to find a good way of describing just that...
<pips1> any suggestions?  :-)
<LaserJock> "Hardy will last forever!"
<pips1> should we drop "Dapper" from the download page entirely?!
<ogra> no
 * pips1 ducks
<pips1> :-)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> 7me goies for some coffee
<LaserJock> could we put it under some sort of "Previous releases" or something
<LaserJock> it seems slightly confusing to me as is
<pips1> but since they are both supported until 2009 only, why should we advocate the "LTS" of Dapper?
<LaserJock> pips1: supposedly it should be more stable
<pips1> yes, I read the mails on the mailing list claiming that...
<pips1> I wouldn't have any own experience as to be able to verify those claims..
<LaserJock> pips1: how do you make section headings in drupal?
<pips1> <h1> <h2> <h3> ...
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> my HTML is from the 90s
<pips1> hehe
<LaserJock> I thought maybe they'd done away with the <h*>s
<pips1> don't forget to close tags.
<pips1> <h1>Title</h1>
<RichEd> LaserJock: just please none of that 90's <BLINK>
<LaserJock> this newfangled CSS junk gets me confused ;-)
<pips1> we are using *X*HTML now, so closing tags isn't optional anymore!
<pips1> ;-)
<RichEd> pips1: are you working on the release page (your queries above) or is that for the download page ?
<pips1> I can tell you haven't been doing much website design.... XHTML and CSS is wonderful compared to the mess that HTML4 was
<pips1> RichEd: I'm working on the download page
<LaserJock> yes, well
<RichEd> thanks  ... I'm on the release page text ... will send to you soon
<LaserJock> I had a website design business when I was a teenager
<LaserJock> when HTML 3.2 was king
<pips1> :-)
<pips1> haha
<LaserJock> then moved on to Chemisty before HTML4 caught on
<pips1> erm, I kind of would like to know what we should do about the "Dapper LTS vs. Gutsy" text on the download page...
<pips1> The paragraph "Choose this to benefit from the long support life-cycle of the 6.06 LTS release. This version is supported until 2009. Users requiring a longer support lifetime may choose to continue using that version rather than upgrade to or install 7.10." doesn't make sense any longer in our case...
<pips1> since 7.10 is also supported until 2009.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I think there's a page on ubuntu.com that defines what an LTS is
<LaserJock> I wonder if you could just drop most of that text and say we have 6.06 LTS and Gutsy
<pips1> it would make the page easier I think. There is so many decisions you need to take before downloading...
<pips1> LaserJock: I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> perhaps we could distill it down
<LaserJock> into like a checklist or decision tree
<pips1> but that LTS wiki page doesn't include any info about the "special case" edubuntu
 * pips1 is starting to get nervous because release is near and he still needs to update various bits of content on the site...
<pips1> nah. nervous is silly
<LaserJock> pips1: well, honestly I don't think we have to worry a ton regarding timing
<ogra> pips1, "With the Long Term Support (LTS) version you get three years support on the desktop"
<ogra> thats enough
<LaserJock> if people can download gutsy they'll mostly be happy
<LaserJock> :-)
<pips1> I guess so... we aren't going to be bombared like ubuntu.com... where they can do any page edits, because the server is under such load...
<pips1> where they *can't* do any page edits
<pips1> !
<pips1> RichEd: we need to decide now about what to write regarding Edubuntu LTS
<pips1> because it means we need to decide on the text for both the /Download page and the release announcement text
<pips1> Should we simply mention Dapper as a "previous release" and drop all that text about "longer support"?
<RichEd> pips1: if they are both going to be supported effectively until the same date, then we need a technical opinion from ogra
<RichEd> ogra: is gutsy as stable as LTS ?
<RichEd> why would someone *want* to stay on LTS
<pips1> difficult question
<RichEd> is there is no good reason, drop the LTS confuzion entirely
<ogra> as i said there are pieces from the server side we support for 5 years ... but the edubuntu-server distro as a whole ends support in 2009 for dapper
<pips1> gutsy surely hasn't been tested as much as dapper...
<RichEd> pips1: that's a point
<ogra> i would disagree here :)
<LaserJock> dapper should be more stable in theory
<LaserJock> but I'd wager that LTSP is much better in Gutsy
<ogra> i think no edubuntu release had that much testing yet
<LaserJock> but the Ubuntu bits have
<ogra> gutsy is suely way better tested on the edubuntu isde than dapper was
<RichEd> perhaps say that they are both supported until 2009 ... but comment that LTS has been live in the field longer
<pips1> ogra: ok, but dapper has been out there much longer, so longer time to find bugs? on the downside, Dapper was less feature-rich, so less people might be using/testing it.. Ach, impossible to tell.
<RichEd> ogra: than dapper *was* as in before release
<ogra> just drop the date completely
<ogra> i'D say
<RichEd> ogra: are we bundling LTSP 5 ?
<pips1> ogra: I can drop the date, but what about the sentence saying that people might want to choose LTS over Gutsy, for "longer support"...?
<ogra> RichEd, we *are* ltsp5 :P
 * RichEd polishes the noddy badge ... just checking for accuracy 
<ogra> pips1, leave that in ...
<ogra> it actually doesnt matter ... at least from an upgrade/support POV
<pips1> ok, your mr. edubuntu :-)
<pips1> *you are
<ogra> both will be able to be upgraded to hardy :)
<ogra> so no matter what you choose now, next release youre in the LTS cycle automaically :)
<pips1> ok
<pips1> I just wanted to make the download page simpler, with less confusing options to puzzle the mind :-)
<pips1> In fact, why not just write what you just said?
<pips1> "no matter what you choose now, you will be able to upgrade to the next release Hardy 8.04, which is a long support life-cycle." ?
<pips1> Hary what?
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> Hardy what?
<pips1> Hardy Heron or smth?
<LaserJock> yes
<ogra> yup
<pips1> oh, it's a bird
<pips1> "wading bird"
<pips1> nice looking!
<pips1> anyway
<pips1> So what do you say? I leave the whole LTS text as is (Dapper "supported for 3 years") and add that sentence I just wrote?
<ogra> sounds ok
<pips1> RichEd: ok with this?
<RichEd> pips1: jono is the bird fetish man ... you have competition ;)
<RichEd> ogra / pips1 : why mention dapper
<RichEd> i still do not understand a reason if they are supported for the same duration
<pips1> RichEd: ogra wants it mentioned for some reason. I'm just going with his wish. :-)
<ogra> huh ?
<ogra> *you* wanted to have a date there
<pips1> LOL
<pips1> no
<ogra> <pips1> ogra: our current text says "Edubuntu 6.06.1 [...] is supported for 3 years". The ubuntu announcement uses a year to indicate the "cut-off" date for security support. Should I change "supported for 3 years" to "supported until 2009" ? which is perhaps more clear?
<pips1> I would prefer a simple text, without mentioning Dapper
<pips1> the date question just kicked us into a discussion about the support "cut-off date" and whether we need to mention dapper
<pips1> so...?
 * pips1 imagines a big pillow fight going on in some back channel
<LaserJock> ok, well, it's 3am here
<LaserJock> and I have to finish up a dissertation chapter tomorrow/today
<LaserJock> pips1: I think I'm finished with http://www.edubuntu.org/node/41
<LaserJock> I'm not sure where it would fit in best
<LaserJock> but it might be nice to link to it from somewhere
<RichEd> yay ... me notes NTFS writing is available ! I now have 15 more GB available in my notebook
<RichEd> \o/ my windows partition now has some use !
<ogra> you could just have wiped it and reformatted it for ubuntu :P
<ogra> who needs windows installed ...
<juliux> good morning
<stormzoeker> I need windows sometimes :S
 * pips1 reads LaserJock's page
<pips1> LaserJock: nice page
<pips1> LaserJock: small suggestion: replace "check off" with "select" ? I think non English-natives might not understand "check off"? not sure
<LaserJock> pips1: ah right, I think that was maybe a sbalneavism
<pips1> hehe
<RichEd> sometimes you need to drink water to realise how good beer tastes ;)
<RichEd> ogra ^ re windows
<LaserJock> ok, I'm done
<ogra> heh
<pips1> LaserJock: I'll add it to the nav menu
<LaserJock> happy release day everybody
<pips1> and create a path alias
<LaserJock> and good work
<RichEd> LaserJock: tanks
<pips1> LaserJock:  path alias "AddOnCd" ?
 * pips1 goes ahead and creates the alias
<pips1> http://edubuntu.org/AddOnCd
<pips1> or UsingAddOnCd?
<RichEd> pips1: where can I find your final text choice for the dapper LTS bit ?
<pips1> there already is UsingEdubuntu
<pips1> so UsingAddOnCD will work nicely
 * pips1 does the cange
<pips1> chage
<pips1> change
<pips1> http://edubuntu.org/UsingAddOnCd
<pips1> RichEd: we haven't made a decision re LTS bit... so no change
<RichEd> okay .... let me know when we do
<pips1> well, I guess it is up to you and ogra to decide what to do re LTS text
<ogra> drop it :)
<pips1> :-)
<pips1> fine with me
<pips1> RichEd: ?
 * RichEd does the snoop doggy dog ... "drop it while it's hot ..."
<pips1> hehe
 * RichEd looks around for his black beautch chorus girls
<pips1> LOL
<pips1> RichEd: hey, you got work to do! ;-)
<pips1> i.e. drop LTS from the announcement
<RichEd> pips1: for back up singing ... not fo ho duty
<RichEd> yes ... drop it
<pips1> RichEd: I just noticed that you don't have an account on edubuntu.org.
<RichEd> pips1: could be ... bit busy now to need it at the moment
<pips1> ok
<RichEd> ogra / pips .... please check the web announcement email ...
<ogra> "The Edubuntu classroom server install builds on the functionality from the previous release..." sounds a bit like you need feisty first
<ogra> RichEd, for features you can add as well: "* New and faster detection of the graphics hardware"
<RichEd> under ubuntu I presume ?
<ogra> as replacement for: "OLIVER ANY MORE ?"
<RichEd> ltsp features look a bit lite compared to the rave reports people have been giving ... anything to add
<ogra> and we shouldnt list all the ubuntu features
<RichEd> yes ... that was not a reference to Oliver Twist "please sir I want some more"
<ogra> link the ubuntu feature list rather
<RichEd> to where ? i got it from c@ninical wiki
<ogra> there shoudl be a tour page or so
<RichEd> okay ... will add that in
<ogra> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/gutsybeta
<ogra> that will change though
<RichEd> pips1: when could the release boys take a look at the announcement page ?
<RichEd> just to check if it loads ...
<RichEd> it would be : http://www.edubuntu.org/news/7.10-release
<RichEd> even if you pop up a shell ?
<RichEd> can edit later ?
<pips1> ok, I'll create an empty page at that url, hold on
<ogra> no need for that
<ogra> just put in place what you have now :)
<RichEd> ogra: ??
<ogra> no need for an extra placeholder
<RichEd> not extra ... at the moment http://www.edubuntu.org/news/7.10-release is not found
<ogra> i know
<RichEd> pips1 ... or else drop in the text doc i sent ...
<RichEd> and pretty it up later ... let the release guys see that the page exists
<RichEd> ogra: where does this go: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/7.10-release
<RichEd> ignore ... try again
<RichEd> ogra: where does this go: "* New and faster detection of the graphics hardware"
<ogra> as a replacement for "OLIVER ANY MORE ?" as i said
<RichEd> ahh :)
<pips1> RichEd: what text should I use for the release announcement just now? the one you sent by email earlier?
<RichEd> pips1: drop that in now yes ...
<pips1> or do you have something more finalised?
<RichEd> I will send a slight change in 5 mins
<pips1> ah, ok, will do
<RichEd> minor edits
<RichEd> ogra: I will leave the ubuntu features in that impress me as a user ... the non-tech stuff ... and send them on the tour for the rest
<ogra> mdz wont be happy with that, but your call
 * ogra had that discuassion about duplicated features in the announcement to often already with him ...
<pips1> RichEd: dummy page exists
<RichEd> ta ... 1 min to final
<RichEd> pips1: final sent
<RichEd> ogra: for a teacher to upgrade, they need a pull ... some of those features are a mighty big user level pull
<RichEd> NTFS write ... very significant for schools .... many with dual boot w/s or NTFS file storage
<ogra> RichEd, i dont mind or care i just dont want to paticipate in that discussion wit mdz later :)
<RichEd> tell him to take it up with me ... i'm bigger'n'heavier than him
<ogra> he might be faster :)
<RichEd> besides ... it's going on *our* web page ... not blatted out via email to the world
<ogra> (he's slimmer, even thats hard to achieve :) )
<RichEd> and in effect we are saying: "ubuntu, respek"
<ogra> you dont want to send it to -devel and -users ?
<RichEd> can he dig it ?
<RichEd> the mail shot was the first doc you read this morning
<ogra> not sure he finds the time to look at it :)
<RichEd> which refers to the second doc as a web page on our site
<ogra> ah, k
<RichEd> as agreed, feature list makes the mail tooooooo long
<RichEd> web forwatting allows features to be scannable with the naked eye ...
<RichEd> *formatting
 * ogra sees 722 ppl in #ubuntu-release-party ... i wonder if we hit 800 before release
<pips1> ogra: RichEd LaserJock please proof read http://edubuntu.org/node/43 if you have the time...
<ogra> access denied
<pips1> ah.
<pips1> try again
<pips1> the download links are still old, of course.
<pips1> but I removed the LTS stuff
<ogra> looks good
<ogra> go with it i'd say
<RichEd> pips1: checking now
<pips1> Matt Nuzum is working on updating the dynamic mirror links ....
<RichEd> highvoltage / LaserJock either of you around and able to move a page from the wiki to the web ?
<pips1> ogra: did you hear from LaserJock or sbalneav re online Handbook ? has it doc.u.c been updated to the latest version?
<pips1> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<pips1> ^^^ is that current now?
<ogra> no idea, LJ did something
<pips1> hmm
<ogra> credits are still the old version
<pips1> I will refer to that page from the deprecated /ThinClientConfig page, ok?
<ogra> yep
<pips1> ok
<ogra> fine for now, doesnt need to be the latest by release (should change the next days though)
<ogra> as long as we dont have to change the link everywhere all is fine :)
<pips1> done
<pips1> http://www.edubuntu.org/ThinClientConfig
<ogra> perfect :)
<RichEd> ogra: can you edit on www.edubuntu.org
<ogra> no
<RichEd> pips1: who else has edit rights ...
<ogra> at least i dont have any account data anymore if i ever could
<ogra> RichEd: highvoltage, jsgotangco, LaserJock and pips1 i think
<pips1> Jordan, Matt Nuzum, Jonathan, cbx33, CoreyBurger...
<pips1> why?
<pips1> do you need something updated? I can do it?
<RichEd> olivers release notes / bug list is on the wiki
<RichEd> needs to move onto the web
<pips1> I can do it
<pips1> what is the wiki URL?
<stormzoeker> ltsp.conf is not longer in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc directory .... handbook is wrong in that point :O
<ogra> stormzoeker, thats an old version, the installed one should have the right path
<ogra> we didnt have an export of the latest text to the web yet
<stormzoeker> kjee, it took me some time to figure that one out :D
<stormzoeker> I'll wait for the new version of the handbook ;)
<RichEd> pips1: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/ReleaseNotes/Edubuntu
<RichEd> goes to: http://www.edubuntu.org/ReleaseNotes/7.
<ogra> stormzoeker, well, you should have it installed if you use gutsy ... its in the edubuntu-docs package (which is there by default)
<highvoltage> hi, I got a highlight, but was flying home. ping me if I can do anything (I forgot to set /away)
<stormzoeker> thnx ogra :D lol, I always look on the website :$
<stormzoeker> and yes, I have gutsy :D it works great, now waiting for the final :D
<RichEd> http://www.edubuntu.org/ReleaseNotes/7.10 <- pips
<RichEd> correction
<RichEd> pips1: you carry on with the release page
<RichEd> highvoltage: yep ... please favour !
<RichEd> highvoltage: move https://wiki.edubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/ReleaseNotes/Edubuntu
<RichEd> to: http://www.edubuntu.org/ReleaseNotes/7.10
<RichEd> can you do that ?
<highvoltage> yes
<pips1> RichEd: http://www.edubuntu.org/ReleaseNotes/7.10
<pips1> it is already done
<highvoltage> pips1: cool
<highvoltage> pips1: strange, I could swear it wasn't there a minuteago :)
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> RichEd: got your web announcement, working on it now
* ogra changed the topic of #edubuntu to: Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | gutsy (7.10) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download grab it while its hot !!!
<ogra> wohooo
<RichEd> highvoltage: can you do some tweaking ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: fire away
<RichEd> on download page [http://edubuntu.org/node/43]
<RichEd> add this link [http://www.edubuntu.org/ReleaseNotes/7.10]
<highvoltage> ok
<RichEd> and this: [http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/710]
<RichEd> pips1: let me know when the release format looks okay and I can whack out the mail to our lists
<pips1> ok, busy
<pips1> RichEd: before you wack out the announcement we need to make sure that the download mirror links are up to date
<pips1> I just asked newz2000 abou it
<RichEd> k
<RichEd> highvoltage: and to this page ... http://www.edubuntu.org/ReleaseNotes/7.10 ... please add a link to the ubunu release notes
<RichEd> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/710
<highvoltage> RichEd: ok
<RichEd> ta
<pips1> blimey that is a looong annoucement to format ... 8-O
<highvoltage> RichEd: added to the bottom
<RichEd> highvoltage: thanks ... spellink errir on that page: workinbg
<highvoltage> RichEd: corrected
<RichEd> ta
 * highvoltage brb
<RichEd> ogra ... sending out the mail announcement now
<ogra> yay
<RichEd> highvoltage: you there ?
<RichEd> http://www.edubuntu.org/Download -> is still old ... needs to point to http://edubuntu.org/node/43
<RichEd> that's a link in the mail :(
<ogra> <Keybuk> random stat of the day
<ogra> <Keybuk> we maxed out our 7GB line two ours before the release ;)
<highvoltage> RichEd: back now (slightly eating)
 * RichEd steps back from the crumbs
<RichEd> hi bimberi ... just in time ... about to announce :)
<bimberi> RichEd: cool
<bimberi> RichEd: and go the Southern Hemisphere on Sunday! :)
<RichEd> indeed ... coloniast swine ... teach them right for stealing our ivory and gold and sending your ancestors to an island prison
<RichEd> ;)
<RichEd> download page is now right
<bimberi> ha!
 * bimberi wondered where that latent desire to rattle cups on iron bars came from :)
<RichEd> well at least the "prison" has sunshine and animals larger than a ferret
<bimberi> :)   too much sunshine though ... so dry :/
<RichEd> must be from the overconsumption of "dry bread and water"
<bimberi> :)
<RichEd> ogra: release page formatted nicely ... bimberi give me an opinion on the feature list on: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/7.10-release
<RichEd> the ones from ubuntu specifically .... do any of those excite you as someone involved in education enough to spur you into an upgrade
<ogra> looks good
 * bimberi looking
<bimberi> I reckon "Improved Sesson Management Apps" will be received very well - so good that it's mentioned early
<bimberi> s/improved/improves/  in  "Additionally the Edubuntu Addon CD installer improved usability"
<ogra> well, hardy will likely move its focus to it (a lot more than gutsy did)
<ogra> big theme for hardy is mass user/session management etc
<RichEd> bimberi: point taken : pips1 ^
<ogra> hardy: going for the superlative :)
<highvoltage> how do I dist-upgrade to hardy?
<highvoltage> :p
<ogra> :P
<RichEd> ogra: as opposed to vista the superlaxative
<ogra> highvoltage, you start with bootstrapping gcc
<RichEd> makes you sh*t yourself when you see the cost and h/w requirements
<highvoltage> ogra: heh
<ogra> heh, yes
<pips1> RichEd: huh?
<highvoltage> I have to admit, I haven't looked at the edubuntu gutsy release yet
 * highvoltage hangs head in shame
<highvoltage> but will download it over the weekend
<ogra> "Edubuntu also bundles selected Education desktop applications, as well
<ogra> as the latest the latest in LTSP thin client technology,"
<ogra> hmm ...
<ogra> doesnt get later than that i guess :)
<RichEd> "Additionally the Edubuntu Addon CD installer improved usability" s/improves/improved/
<RichEd> ogra: stressing a point :) sorry about that ...
<ogra> happens :)
<pips1> RichEd: ogra I just updated http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<pips1> to include links to 7.10 instead of 7.04
<pips1> it says at the top that this page is for Dapper, but I still wonder... in the Text further down, it suggests to download Dapper explicitely... Shouldn't we change that, now that Dapper isn't really promoted anymore?
<RichEd> pips ... make two clear sections on the page ...
<RichEd> pips1 rather ... make three clear sections on the page ...
<RichEd> general section 1st ... welcome paragraph
<RichEd> next section: edubuntu 7.10 the existing bit before welcome ... give it a grey heading
<RichEd>  Getting Started with Edubuntu 7.10 : The lastest release
<RichEd> next section: Getting Started with Edubuntu 6.06.1, Edubuntu with Long Term Support
<RichEd> grey heading again
<RichEd> then: These notes are for Edubuntu 6.06 LTS long term support release.
<RichEd> then everything after : Downloading Edubuntu
<RichEd> then everything including and after : Downloading Edubuntu
<RichEd> and finally ... add a download link to the 7.10 notes ...
<RichEd> so the theory is: if you want 7.10 is is easy enough to go without docs
<RichEd> so the theory is: if you want 6.01 here is the guide
<RichEd> pips ^ make sense ?
 * RichEd collection -> 20mins
<pips1> RichEd: ogra Who is in charge of the shipit page? It still mentions gutsy beta...
<ogra> i'll forward it
<ogra> pips1, thanks
<sbalneav> Morning all!
<sbalneav> Happy gutsy day!
<Kamping_Kaiser> welcome in :)
<ogra> happy release day sbalneav !
<sbalneav> \o/ for us
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> How come you're @ogra? :)
<ogra> i changed the topic :)
<sbalneav> Ah, wait, maybe that's irssi's way of telling me your opped?
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> durr
<ogra> better :)
<sbalneav> I'm easily confused by bright shiny objects :)
<ogra> heh
<pips1> sbalneav: hey, happy release day!
<sbalneav> Hey pips1!  Happy day indeed!
<RichEd> hi sbalneav
<RichEd> thanks to pips1 for his help with the web release stuff
<pips1> thanks
<pips1> more thanks to sbalneav for putting in the *real* work
<sbalneav> Phht
<sbalneav> We each do what is within our ken.  It's all work that needs to get done, and none of it is more "real" than any other :)
<pips1> sbalneav: ok ok, well said
<pips1> :-)
<sbalneav> I can't do any of the fancy web stuff.  I've got no head for graphical design.  My taste is all in my mouth :)
<pips1> re taste in your mouth: hehe
 * pips1 is busy updating bits on the wiki pages
 * pips1 craves to taste something in his mouth too, since he hasn't had lunch yet
<pips1> at 4 in the afternoon :-/
<pips1> I better go and grab smth to eat
<ogra> hmm, yeah, breakfast would be an idea :)
<sbalneav> ogra: Little late for breakfast for you :)
<ogra> only 4pm :)
<sbalneav> Well, here in Winnipeg, we have Salisbury House, which is a restaurant famous for a number of things, one being it's all-day breakfasts.
<ogra> nice
<sbalneav> If you feel like hopping a fast plane, I'll buy you some! :)
<cliebow_> sbalneav:we have the Riverside here in Ellsworth...
<cliebow_> it used to be on the riverside..moved up the street recently
<sbalneav> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_House_%28Canada%29
<sbalneav> In case anyone's interested in a fine Winnipeg dining establishment :)
<cliebow_> gutsy is out?
<sbalneav> Yeppers!
<sbalneav> Morning jsgotangco!
<RichEd> ogra: all looking okay ?
<ogra> indeed
<jsgotangco> hello!
<sbalneav> I'm scared to go into #ubuntu-release-party
<RichEd> sbalneav: it's so crowded there may not be room ;)
<RichEd> certainly not for you and jim at the same time
<sbalneav> Oh, snap!
<sbalneav> :)
 * pips1 wonders how the xubuntu release guys are doing
 * pips1 has added the release highlight box to edubuntu.org
<pips1> ok, that's me for now
<pips1> off to grab some food
 * pips1 marvels at the wonderful world wide web ... while browsing through the referrers linking to edubuntu and notices http://www.wintricks.it/news1/article?ID=5821
<pips1> the "wintricks" site sent us 23 site visitors
<pips1> cu folks
<juliux> ogra, could it be that the .template for the edubuntu-7.10-serveraddon-amd64 is broken? the size is 170m
<juliux> b
<ogra> let me ss if i get through to it first :P
<ogra> reaching releases.ubuntu.com isnt easy atm
<juliux> http://ubuntu.intergenia.de/releases/edubuntu/gutsy/
<juliux> that one is the fasted i found;)
<juliux> the .template for the serveraddon cds is aroun 170mb for the server only 5,5mb
<ogra> looks ok ...
<ogra> its the same on the fromer dailies
<juliux> but why is it so big?
<ogra> no idea, probably the amount of packages
<juliux> hmm
<ogra>  does it work ?
<juliux> i donÂ´t now i have to wait 11minutes from now;)
<juliux> i am creating an local mirror atm for the ubucon
<juliux> but i prefer to use jigdo;)
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> Hey there bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sbalneav
<juliux> ogra, do you want some more powered by edubuntu stickers?
<ogra> any i can get :)
<juliux> ogra, good, your address please;)
<ogra> Heinrich Zille sStr. 5, 34134 Kassel
<ogra> *Str
<juliux> ok
<juliux> i will send you 50
<ogra> thanks
<juliux> you are welcome
<ogra> i'll carry thm to UDS :)
<juliux> cool
<LaserJock> hmm, pips1 is gone
<RichEd> juliux: me too me too ! (please)
<ogra> RichEd, i'll bring them, dont worry :)
<LaserJock> seems like the first item of "Highlights of this release include:" is edubuntu-desktop-kde
<LaserJock> that's kinda odd when it's not shipped on a CD or anything
<LaserJock> and we have no documentation for it
<ogra> LaserJock, but its one of the new gutsy features
<juliux> RichEd, take some from ogra
<LaserJock> sure, it's one of the features
<LaserJock> but usuallly you put the "big ones" first ;-)
<juliux> RichEd, i have 175 left, will send 50 to ogra the rest goes to the german ubucon
<juliux> RichEd, but i ordered more by jenda;)
<lns> Congrats to GUTSY!!! Woooooooooooooooooooooooooot!!!
<RichEd> LaserJock: I copied off the list on the canonical wiki ... KDE just made it higher in the list by default ... but would be good to move on the web page to a lower ranking
<RichEd> LaserJock: that gives me a thought ... we should maybe send out a news-list poll to ask what new feature is the favourite of the users
<RichEd> the dialogue will spur people into thinking about an upgrade if they have not considered or done it yet
<Mad_bol> hi alll
<Mad_bol> anyone hlp plz
<sbalneav> Geez
<sbalneav> doesn't hang around long
<RichEd> cheers guys ... will pop back in later
<ogra> ciao RichEd
<sgonzalez> Yikes! Big issue (for me at least :)... please help!! With the help of a friend, I found out that I was running the generic kernel on edubuntu 7.04, thus only seeing 3GB of my 6GB of RAM. So we installed the server kernel, ran updates, etc. On a server that we really weren't crashing on at all, we started crashing like crazy (2-3 times/day). I put the generic kernel back in, and we're back to functioning fine. Any thoughts?! I could really use some
<sgonzalez> he lp here! Thanks.
<sbalneav> When you say "crashing", do you mean application crashing? Or the whole server goes down?
<sgonzalez> Users are frozen, I can't log in, even at the server console (no one can log in)
<sgonzalez> can't ssh either, so I end up hard rebooting
<sbalneav> Well, I'd say it's a problem between your motherboard, and how it's handling the bank switching for the ram.
<sbalneav> Something that the kernel doesn't like.
<sgonzalez> Can I do something about this? This is a 2 year old server that's functioned fine. I did add 4GB of RAM to make it an LTSP server, so the RAM is  new. Is ther a test I can run for this?
<sbalneav> memtest86 might reveal somthing.
<sbalneav> Most of the ubuntu boot disks allow you to boot in a memtest86 model.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: hi!
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock! Happy gutsy day!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: same to you. well done!
<sgonzalez> I will try that after school ends. Happy Gutsy Day :) BTW, why is the generic kernel loaded for edubuntu server? I would think that since it's server version it would have the server kernel by default.
<LaserJock> sgonzalez: I think there's probably some historical reasons
<sbalneav> Because generic is the most guarenteed to work :)
<LaserJock> and it might provide the most "generic" experience, so work for the most people out of the box
<sgonzalez> Well, I guess that's true for me :) Is memtest 86 a pass/fail sort of thing?
<ogra> it needs to u quite some time with that amount of ram
<ogra> s/u/run/
<ogra> like 24-48h or so
<ogra> you find it in the bootmenu of your server
<ogra> (hit esc during the grub message)
<sgonzalez> Ogra: Thanks. I guess I'll wait for the weekend to run it.
<sbalneav> ogra: So, I'm thinking we only need to have one or two LTSP specs.
<ogra> i'd assume the ram you added isnt 100% compatible with the 2Gig you already head
<ogra> sbalneav, we can have as many ltsp specs as we like (for ltsp-drivers ;) )
<ogra> for edubuntu we'll need to see
<ogra> which ones would you propose ?
<sgonzalez> Ogra: I bought Edge RAM. Not sure what the 2GB in there is. Edge seems to be fairly compatible with most stuff. If it fails, I'll pull the 2GB originally in there and see if the 4 pass. If so, I guess I'll run with 4 or find $$ for more.
<sgonzalez> Ogra: Separate problem: A while ago, you directed me to this site < https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/105709> because I couldn't log out of my server (freezes.) I followed the directions, but still have the issue. Any other ideas?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105709 in ltsp "sound config not reset after thin client usage" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<sgonzalez> ogra: I'm actually frozen at the console now, and ssh'd in. If there's something I can look for, please tell me! I'm kind of a noob (1 year old linux server admin) so even the obvious is welcome.
<sbalneav> ogra: Well, I'm thinking a "meta" one, where we discuss some technical stuff, i.e. c jetpipe, cdpinger, and localapps, and then one for "handoff"
<ogra> handoff will happen during FOSSCamp ... we dont need a spec
<ogra> i'm not really clear yet if and how much time i'm allowed to put in
<RichEd> sbalneav see /msg
<sbalneav> LaserJock: You around?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yep
<LaserJock> kinda
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what's up?
<sbalneav> You did a nice job of handling that guy in -devel
<sbalneav> congrats.
<LaserJock> heh
<sbalneav> He was basically there to stir up trouble, and you all kept your cool.  Well done.
<LaserJock> I spent from ~midnight to 3am last night in #ubuntu-release-party running herd on the chaos
<LaserJock> by this time I'm getting a bit used to it
<LaserJock> unfortunately, I should have been writing on my dissertation
<LaserJock> which I'm meeting my advisor about in 30 min
<sbalneav> Argh.
<LaserJock> so long day today
<sbalneav> don't talk to me then, get busy
<LaserJock> and my parents are here
<LaserJock> and we're driving to Sacramento this evening
<LaserJock> wahoo! ;-)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: btw, last night I also managed to write http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingAddOnCd, what do you think?
<RichEd> my parents are here ... LaserJock is pulling that "need my mummy" again ... and funny how he always says he *should* have been writing his dissertation
<RichEd> ;)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> heah, so when are we gonna get a BOF/spec list?
 * LaserJock likes to spout off ideas that nobody probably cares about
<LaserJock> I really really hope the daily schedules work out well for Boston so I can listen in
<jeffwheeler> Is it okay to simply install the edubuntu packages on a normal Ubuntu system?
#edubuntu 2007-10-19
<gnomefreak> jeffwheeler: yes
<gnomefreak> jeffwheeler: install edubuntu-desktop
<jeffwheeler> gnomefreak: okay; I'm not running Ubuntu at the moment, but I was considering edubuntu at school for the LTSP simplicity
<gnomefreak> jeffwheeler: edubuntu should be fine to install than it still uses gnome and has most of gnome apps
<gnomefreak> not sure if it installs all i havent installed from edubuntu cd in a while
<Ziroday> I can't seem to get LTSP to work, do i have to set some sort of default ip addresses or something?
<Ziroday> anyone?
<Burgundavia> Ziroday: how is it not working?
<Ziroday> when booting the client i get a "media check failed" error
<Ziroday> however i was using the same cable, and ports before and it was woeking fine
<Ziroday> s/woeking/working
<Burgundavia> you certain you are booting to the network and not a cd or harddrive?
<Ziroday> Yes
<Ziroday> network is first in boot list
<Ziroday> i mean order
<Ziroday> there is also no lights on the ethernet port?, is that normal
<Ziroday> Burgundavia: ?
<Burgundavia> Ziroday: no lights means no connect
<Burgundavia> connection, rather
<Burgundavia> try a different cable
<Ziroday> Need help with LTSP on my client keeps saying Media check failed
<Burgundavia> Ziroday: hey, did you try a different cable?
<Ziroday> trying that now
<Ziroday> well now it says no boot offers were recieved
<Ziroday> :(
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> is there a green light on the NIC on the client?
<Burgundavia> is there a green light on the NIC on the client?
<Ziroday> yea
<Burgundavia> what about the server?
<Ziroday> same
<Burgundavia> have you ever booted a client off this server befgore?\
<Ziroday> yes
<Burgundavia> do you have a booted client on it right now?
<Ziroday> should the ip static or dhcp?
<Ziroday> not booted but waiting
<Burgundavia> the NIC on the server connected to the clients should be static
<Ziroday> has PXE
<Burgundavia> the client should be dhcp
<Ziroday> What should the IP adresses of the server be?
<Burgundavia> whatever you want
<Ziroday> ok
<Burgundavia> you need the dhcp lease range in the same subnet as the server
<Burgundavia> but if you have successfully booted something off this server before
<Ziroday> ok
<Burgundavia> what has changed?
<Ziroday> It broke on a plane
<Burgundavia> is this a new client or a new network?
<Burgundavia> what broke?
<Ziroday> new client, new network and the Raid
<Ziroday> we fixed the raid already
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> do you have a crossover cable or a laptop
<Burgundavia> ?
<Ziroday> crossover cable?
<Ziroday> no its just a direct linik currently from the server to the client
<Burgundavia> ahh
<Burgundavia> for that you need a crossover cable
<Burgundavia> did you buy this cable?
<Ziroday> no but its working fine before with a ethernet cable and a switch
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> in order to connect two computers together, you need a special cable
<Burgundavia> where the in goes to the out and the out to the in, basically
<Burgundavia> if you don't have one of those, you are going to need a switch
<Ziroday> If I put it though a switch to i still need the cable?
<Ziroday> ah right soory
<Ziroday> *sorry
<Ziroday> okay I'll wire it through the switch now
<Burgundavia> rocking, that should get you up and running
<Ziroday> ok
<Ziroday> ill try it brb
<Ziroday> nope
<Ziroday> same error "No DHCP or BOOTP recieved"
<Ziroday> :(
<Ziroday> grr internet keeps dropping
<Ziroday> sorry Burgundivia
<Meshezabeel> any known problems with new 7.10?
<kgoetz> es, see the release note :)
<kgoetz> *notes
<Meshezabeel> tx kgoetz
<dawkirst> hi. if I would like to install some educational applications from the CD (i.e., without an active internet connection), how can I go about doing this?
<ogra> use the addon CD
<dawkirst> ogra, could you please explain that?
<ogra> the edu apps are on the addon CD ... http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/gutsy/
<ogra> if oyu pop that into an installed edubuntu system it will offer you to install edu apps
<dawkirst> thabks
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bddebian> Heya
<desertc> Hello -- How do I join the team efforts?
<sbalneav> Well!  You've come to the right place.
<sbalneav> What would you like to/can do?
<desertc> I am a bit of a meet and greet kind of guy, and I have been talking with a good number of educators lately.  I realized I was recreating a lot of efforts of the Edubuntu team.
<desertc> I was chatting with someone in #ubuntu-marketing the other day who was able to provide me with lots of success stories of Ubuntu in education, but I thought maybe I could work with your team directly.
<desertc> I joined the Edubuntu Advocacy team the other day.
<dtrask> RichEd...you in here?
<desertc> Any other recommendations?
<RichEd> dtrask: i am now :)
<RichEd> hi desertc ... we'd be glad for you to help
<RichEd> the best place to start getting involved is to attend one of our edubuntu meetings on wednesdays
<desertc> Are there email mailing lists or other signups that you would recommend?
<RichEd> we meet in #ubuntu-meeting : alternating between 12h00 UTC and 20h00 UTC
<desertc> Okay, I can try to fit in a Wednesday meeting, although I'm busy running a LUG one week a month on the last Wednesday each month.
<RichEd> mailing lists are at: lists.ubuntu.com
<RichEd> what time zone are you in ?
<desertc> Central/US
<RichEd> so the alternating time is to accomodate the global spread of people ... you can attend when you are awake and have free time
<desertc> Sounds good.   I've marked it on my calender.
<RichEd> unfortunately the fridge schedule is a bit out of sorts at the moment, but event times are usually found here:
<RichEd> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<desertc> So next week will be at 12h or 20h ?
<RichEd> this past week was the 12h00 UTC one ... next week is 20h00 UTC
<RichEd> mail lists:
<RichEd> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
<RichEd> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
<RichEd> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-education
<RichEd> you can find most of the info above at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
<RichEd> oops ....
<RichEd> you can find most of the info above at: http://www.edubuntu.org/Community
<dtrask> Hey RichEd!
<dtrask> u see my email?
<desertc> Thanks for your help, RichEd.
<RichEd> b.t.w I am the education programme manager for canonical
<RichEd> and ogra is the lead developer for education also a canonical employee
<RichEd> the rest of the people here are volunteers / users etc.
<RichEd> i'd suggest you also chat to dtrask ... he is also stateside
<dtrask> yep I am
<RichEd> he is an edubuntu legend for inspiration and enthusiasm
<RichEd> :)
<dtrask> desertc: where are you?
 * dtrask head swells and pops
<dtrask> ;-)
 * RichEd can hear the ping sound all the way from South Africa
<desertc> Nashville, Tennessee.  We just had a Technology and Education conference here.
<dtrask> I'm in class while my students are diligently typing away in KTouch
<dtrask> cool
<dtrask> I'm in Maine
<RichEd> desertc: pop me an email at richard@ubuntu.com
<dtrask> land of Linux
<RichEd> or join the lists and send out a hi and an intro
<desertc> I took the time to go there and talk with a number of educators and facilitators, but I did not have much material to bring with me.  Felt a bit unprepared.
 * dtrask seriously thinks we should change our state slogan
<RichEd> dtrask: what is the slogan at present /
<dtrask> RichEd: you get my email about details on visiting our school?
<dtrask> RichEd: "Vacationland"
<RichEd> dtrask: when was it sent ?
<dtrask> RichEd: right after your last one to me...and I resent this a.m.
<RichEd> dtrask: could be worse :) but does not give you due credit for any hard work does it ?
<RichEd> your response to my idea about roping in the kids ?
<dtrask> RichEd: LOL!
<dtrask> RichEd: yes
<RichEd> and was it a real mail or a facebook one ?
<RichEd> dtrask: got it and already read it the other day right after you responded
<dtrask> RichEd: real....and some details about travelling here and all
<dtrask> RichEd: oh...OK....thoughts?
<RichEd> we can set up an informal spec at UDS to toss around ideas and a formal management / mentor framework
<dtrask> RichEd: I'm trying to plan some things out here for a potential visit
<dtrask> RichEd: up to you of course
<RichEd> i'd suggest that the people who are keen to visit hire a car, and pop in for the day ?
<desertc> RichEd, Also - I have been working on a new project that I thought you might be relevant to have aligned with the Edubuntu teams.  Would you like to hear about it?
<dtrask> RichEd: Sure....anyone have an int'l drivers license?
<dtrask> RichEd: yes!  Tell me!
<RichEd> yep ... but i have to be out of here in 5 mins ... end of work day, end of week ... gotta function with my wife's work
 * dtrask waits on edge of seat
<RichEd> can you mail me ?
<desertc> Sure can.
<RichEd> you can even just chat to dtrask about it, and then just cut & paste the conversation
<RichEd> and mail that ?
<^Migs^> what's on the Server Classroom Add-On CD?
<^Migs^> is there a list anywhere?
<dtrask> Actually I'm in the same boat...class ends in 5 mins
<RichEd> ^Migs^: it's the bulk of the apps you to go onto the server
<dtrask> mail me at   dtrask@vcsvikings.org
<^Migs^> oh wait, never mind
<^Migs^> just found it.  Silly me.
<RichEd> dtrask: not sure about the international driver's licence ... but i am sure we'll have a local who can drive
<RichEd> desertc: note also re. meetings that we are about to go into UDS and then the company meeting
<RichEd> so next week there is an edubuntu meeting and then prolly a break for 2 weeks
<desertc> Oh, I see.
<RichEd> see here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Boston
<desertc> Well, catch up with you all when you get back.  I'll be interested in what you think of my team idea, that I'm sending by email.
<RichEd> most of the key folk will be there and tied up
<RichEd> will check it out ... try to make the meeting next week if you can
<RichEd> pop in here 15 mins before the time ... and then we announce the meeting and channel
<RichEd> dtrask: can you guess what earthshattering event happens tomorrow that has me very excited ?
<dtrask> World Cup?
<RichEd> the rugby world cup final ... South Africa (that's me) vs England ...
<RichEd> right i am wrapping up and will be off ...
<RichEd> have a good friday (not in the nail people to a tree way) and a great weekend
<^Migs^> is LTSP on regular Ubuntu, or is that just Edubuntu?
<RichEd> ^Migs^: bundled on the edubuntu CD and easy install
<RichEd> but in reality it's a package that can be pulled down and installed into any *buntu
<^Migs^> well, ok
<^Migs^> you're right, thanks
<^Migs^> I know Edubuntu at least has the GUI Thin Client Manager and all
<^Migs^> why LTSP and not K12LTSP?
<RichEd> 'cause k12ltsp is a fedor implementation
<RichEd> fedora
<^Migs^> ah, okay
<RichEd> LTSP is the generic
<^Migs^> didn't realize that
<RichEd> you can find the creators in #ltsp
<^Migs^> thx
<RichEd> *buntu is in sunc with the latest ltsp ... thanks to sbalneav and ogra
<RichEd> *sync
<RichEd> the other main man is jammyq .... but he does not lurk in this channel ... just the #ltsp one
 * RichEd disappears in a tear in the fabric of reality
<dtrask> RichEd:  Enjoy the game!  If Boston wins the next 2 games...we'll be in the grips of the World Series during UDS
<RichEd> great ... someting to watch while we quaff in the bar(s)
<dtrask> RichEd: Amen....world famous bar just outside the ballpark called the Cask 'n Flagon
<dtrask> RichEd: Ever see the TV show Cheers?
<dtrask> RichEd: set in Boston...there's a bar that it's modeled after
<dtrask> RichEd: Well...it's time for lunch here in the EDT time zone...so I'm off....catch you later.  have fun with the World Cup match!  :-)
<desertc> I could use some one page product slicks to give to people about Edubutu
<^Migs^> has anyone come across any FOSS anti plagiarism software?
<^Migs^> similar to TurnItIn?
<bluekuja> heya highvoltage
<LaserJock_> hi bluekuja
<bluekuja> heya LaserJock_ :)
<bluekuja> how are you jordan?
<LaserJock_> pretty good
<LaserJock_> I'm at my grandfather's house with my parents
<LaserJock_> and I got a new Ruby book
<bluekuja> oh :D
<highvoltage> hey bluekuja and Laserz
<bluekuja> are you a Ruby fanatic?
<bluekuja> highvoltage, heya jon :)
<bluekuja> highvoltage, I've just updated italian website gutsy links and I was wondering about the localised translation of edubuntu website...any news for it?
<LaserJock_> bluekuja: I've never done anything in ruby
<LaserJock_> I'm just looking into it
<bluekuja> great, so you gonna start a new language
<LaserJock_> I was at the book store yesterday and there were pretty much more Ruby books than any other language
<bluekuja> LaserJock_: I promised myself to get a python book, but I alwais forget to buy one :/
<LaserJock_> I bought the Python Cookbook
<LaserJock_> it's ok
<LaserJock_> I gotta get better at C++ too
<LaserJock_> but I can get lots of C++ books at the uni library
<bluekuja> LaserJock_: which language do you prefer?
<LaserJock_> bash ;-)
<bluekuja> :D
<LaserJock_> honestly at this point I'm most productive with Python
<bluekuja> but yeah, I like bash as well
<bluekuja> LaserJock_: some news from packaging-guide side?
<bluekuja> I see no more mails on the ML
<bluekuja> is it stoned?
<LaserJock_> there was a book I almost got that was a "Ruby for sysadmins" book
<LaserJock_> bluekuja: dholbach is working on it in the wiki
<LaserJock_> it's moving ahead
<LaserJock_> we're gonna get the existing wiki packaging docs merged in
<highvoltage> bluekuja: I'd actually want to look at that tonight / tomorrow morning
<LaserJock_> and then see how to best proceed
<highvoltage> bluekuja: where's the italian site again? haven't looked at it in a while, would like to see how it has progressed
<LaserJock_> highvoltage: is the new theme getting anywhere?
<bluekuja> LaserJock_: what about permissions?
<bluekuja> highvoltage, one second and I send you right lin
<bluekuja> *link
<bluekuja> :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock_: not sure if you were at the meeting the other day, but we discussed it at the last meeting, we had versioning conflicts and the theme looked quite broken
<LaserJock_> bluekuja: what about permissions?
<LaserJock_> highvoltage: versioning of what? drupal?
<highvoltage> LaserJock_: and it seems that news2000 is busy with a bunch of other stuff (or was at least)
<highvoltage> LaserJock_: the theme. we comined parts of his bzr theme, and images he cut out using photoshop, but they don't work together at the moment
<highvoltage> so he has to do a new cut with that specific theme
<LaserJock_> and what about upgrading drupal?
<highvoltage> I've thought of fixing it with gimp- it might not be exactly how he would want it, but at least it would work
<highvoltage> drupal can't be upgraded
<highvoltage> it's the latest version
<LaserJock_> really? it looked like 4.7 to me
<highvoltage> no ways
<highvoltage> it's been on 5 for ages
<LaserJock_> ah, I must not've looked close enough
<highvoltage> and it's 5.1 since recently
<LaserJock_> ok, well that's great
<highvoltage> I lie
<highvoltage> 5.3 is out
<LaserJock_> how easy is it to get new modules?
<highvoltage> so it can be upgraded
<highvoltage> very easy
<highvoltage> although, I've meant to install the localisation module, and haven't been able to do it in the last 3 weeks
<highvoltage> at least this week I'm home for a change
<highvoltage> been out of town the last month
<highvoltage> (have to go again monday... grrr)
<LaserJock_> I was trying to figure out how to import the Handbook into edubuntu.org
<highvoltage> not that I claim to know anything about docs, but shouldn't that go into help.ubuntu.com?
<LaserJock_> and I saw that there was a "import HTML" module
<LaserJock_> well, IMO, www.edubuntu.org is underutilized
<LaserJock_> and well, help.ubuntu.com tends to be Ubuntu-centered
<bluekuja_> sorry, wireless link went down
<bluekuja_> highvoltage, received the links I gave you?
<LaserJock_> I *could* have mdke put it on there, but I was trying to get creative
<bluekuja_> LaserJock_: what permissions will be set up on the wiki?
<LaserJock_> bluekuja_: none, just normal wiki
<bluekuja_> LaserJock_, I mean I hope not everyone will be able to modify it
<bluekuja_> LaserJock_, normal wiki?
<LaserJock_> setting up permissions is not trivial at all
<LaserJock_> bluekuja_: it's just on wiki.ubuntu.com
<bluekuja_> LaserJock_, and on help.u.c?
<LaserJock_> hmm?
<LaserJock_> bluekuja_: I'm just saying that the packaging guide has no special permissions
<bluekuja_> packaging guide will be deleted from the doc team trunk?
<LaserJock_> maybe eventually
<LaserJock_> I'm gonna keep it around for a while
<bluekuja_> LaserJock_, yeah, understood the point. I was just a little bit confused about everyone able to modify a document like that
<LaserJock_> why not?
<bluekuja_> highvoltage, disappeared?
<bluekuja_> LaserJock_, small example
<bluekuja_> a contributor decides to add something to the doc
<LaserJock_> *every* other doc is on the wiki. Our policies, which are more important than the packaging guide, are on the wiki
<bluekuja_> mess up the informations he adds there
<LaserJock_> it can't be any worse than what's already on the wiki
<LaserJock_> well, yes, probably some people will mess some things up along the way
<LaserJock_> but if we have lots of eyes watching it it'll be easy to revert
<highvoltage> sorry, friend just phoned me
<bluekuja_> ok, that was the point
<bluekuja_> and anyway yes, a lot of ppl will take care of it
<bluekuja_> so I guess there wont be errors
<highvoltage> LaserJock_: yes! edubuntu.org is underused.
<LaserJock_> I realize the concern
<bluekuja_> highvoltage, received my link?
<highvoltage> bluekuja_: just received it, thanks
<bluekuja_> grea
<LaserJock_> but we haven't had problems with our Policy docs, so I don't know why we should be any more concerned about the packaging guide
<bluekuja_> highvoltage, you can browse all sections from there
<bluekuja_> LaserJock_, yeah, you're right on this
<LaserJock_> highvoltage: I'm hoping we can freshen up edubuntu.org
<highvoltage> LaserJock_: we've had some bursts where people have joined and meant to do a lot... and then they just dissapeared
<LaserJock_> the ubuntu.com site just rocks
<highvoltage> LaserJock_: yeah, ubuntu.com is quite nice
<LaserJock_> yep
<LaserJock_> we need a realistic plan
<bluekuja_> LaserJock_, please keep me updated on that. e.g when a first draft will be up and running on the wiki
<LaserJock_> and just buckle down and start small and keep working
<highvoltage> LaserJock_: I'm just quite weary of long planning sessions and planning around the website, and then the people who wanted all the bells and whistles dissapearing
<highvoltage> LaserJock_: I'd rather do lots of incremental improvements
<highvoltage> well, yes, what you just said :)
<LaserJock_> bluekuja_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<highvoltage> these big fancy plans all flop, I don't like them
<LaserJock_> highvoltage: yes, that's exactly my point
<LaserJock_> highvoltage: we need *some* goal or plan in mind, but it *has* to be realistic and it needs to have small steps
<highvoltage> *nod*
<highvoltage> LaserJock_: *hug* :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock_: I think we should also just-do-things, without thinking of toes we might step on, if someone has a problem with something, we can fix it again afterwards
<bluekuja_> LaserJock, thanks, how far we are from ending it up?
<highvoltage> bluekuja_: the window that lit up that I thought was you, wasn't :)
<highvoltage> bluekuja_: where did you send those links? by email?
<bluekuja_> highvoltage, nope, here
<bluekuja_> but I lagged out too early
<bluekuja_> I guess
<highvoltage> bluekuja_: ah
<highvoltage> LaserJock_: if I'd have to prioritise web tasks, it would be (not in a specific order, but just things that are currently important)
<highvoltage> 1. Update/remove obsolete content
<highvoltage> 2. give the site a bit of a facelift
<highvoltage> 3. get some more useful information, and links to things like wiki pages and help.ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> 4. have a better frontpage, one that changes often
<LaserJock_> well, that's exactly what I was thinking
<highvoltage> the user and community ideas that pips1 have are nice, but I don't think we're big enough at this stage for that, and that can wait for now, imho
<LaserJock_> so maybe we can create just a simple "web site todo" page
<LaserJock_> and as we can we can work on things
<LaserJock_> I totally agree with you about the "just do it" thing
<LaserJock_> it's easy to fix stuff
<LaserJock_> as long as people are just deleting content
<LaserJock_> overall Edubuntu tends to suffer from over-engineering when it comes to documentation or community stuff
<highvoltage> heh, yes
<highvoltage> yes, a wiki page with bite-sized tasks would be good
<LaserJock_> ok, today I'll start that, if that's ok with you
<highvoltage> I'm more than ok with that!
<LaserJock_> just throw down some ideas
<LaserJock_> and we can all edit them, etc.
<LaserJock_> but I agree with your list above
<highvoltage> I've been a bit unhappy about the site for a while, and I've been feeling a bit driven under by the over-engineering stuff.
<highvoltage> but I'm quite happy that you agree with me, and it gives me some new motivation :)
<highvoltage> however, some friends are expecting me at a party- I need to run for now
<LaserJock_> ok, well I gotta go for a little bit
<LaserJock_> heh
<LaserJock_> it's lunch time here
<highvoltage> I'll look at some things tomorrow morning, can you post me a link to such a wiki page if you create it?
<highvoltage> I'll get it in my away log
<LaserJock_> yep, will do
<LaserJock_> I might email edubuntu-devel actually
<highvoltage> bluekuja_: don't forget to send me those links either
<highvoltage> ok, great
<LaserJock_> just to make sure pips1 and everybody else knows
<LaserJock_> and we can start some discussion there as well
<LaserJock_> highvoltage: alrighty, I'm pumped
<LaserJock_> let's make it happen ;-)
<highvoltage> yay! :)
<bluekuja> back again, something is going wrong on my nm
<bluekuja> highvoltage, looked at that website? how does it look?
<LaserJock_> bluekuja: he had to go
<bluekuja> ok then, I'll ping him tomorrow when he gets up :)
<bluekuja> LaserJock, thanks :)
<bluekuja> LaserJock, where does ubuntu splash image is stored?
<bluekuja> LaserJock_: cannot find it in /usr/share/pixmaps/splash
<LaserJock_> bluekuja: the boot splash?
<bluekuja> LaserJock_: splash image, when nautilus, np applet loads up
<bluekuja> before having your desktop
<LaserJock_> ah, gnome splash
<bluekuja> yup
<LaserJock_> I actually don't know/remember
<bluekuja> ok, I'm currently searching it for a friend
<yotux> any one offer some help with PXE booting?
<stgraber> bluekuja: /usr/share/pixmaps/ IIRC
<bluekuja> stgraber, seems it has been removed in gutsy
<stgraber> yes
<LaserJock_> could be
<bluekuja> stgraber, for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/137118
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137118 in gnome-session "Gnome splash screen and sound disabled in Gutsy (dup-of: 129029)" [Low,Invalid]
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129029 in libgnome "[Gutsy Tribe-5] No Sound on Login Screen or during Login" [High,Fix released]
<bluekuja> stgraber, that's why I cannot find it inside /usr/share/pixmaps/splash
<LaserJock_> I know the removed the boot splash, I didn't know they removed the pixmaps
<bluekuja> same here
<bluekuja> that's why I was searching it around
<LaserJock_> heh, I like it without it
<bluekuja> :D
<bluekuja> it's the same for me, but a friend was a little less disappointed about not having ubuntu splash image
<bluekuja> on gutsy
<bluekuja> I take a break for a while
#edubuntu 2007-10-20
<pvangundy> hello
<LaserJock_> hi
<pvangundy> can some one give me a name or email address of an individual I can contact in regards to issues with the current Edubuntu kernel?
<pvangundy> not so much issues, more limitations
<LaserJock_> hmm
<LaserJock_> you could email the ubuntu-kernel list maybe
<pvangundy> not a bad idea...i just didn't know if the project was forked in a way that each had it's own kernel development
<pvangundy> you see, the kernel doesn't have high mem built into the kernel
<pvangundy> because it uses the generic kernel it only recognizes up to roughly 3gigs of memory even if you have more installed
<LaserJock_> oh, right
<pvangundy> This is a very bad thing for individuals running Edubuntu that have servers with more than 3gigs due load/usage
<LaserJock_> the -server kernel has higher memory support
<pvangundy> correct
<pvangundy> i switched the individual to that and they have experienced crashes frequently
<pvangundy> we went back to the generic kernel and all is well....very weird
<LaserJock_> yeah, so that's just a question of whether Edubuntu should ship -generic or -sever by default
<LaserJock_> right, I've been following the thread on that
<pvangundy> cool, so it's been talked about
<pvangundy> i didn't know that. :)
<pvangundy> i was told by this individual that they talked to ogra or sbalneav (don't remember which) recently and they said that the generic kernel has a wider range of support for devices and such
<pvangundy> that's why it's in there
<pvangundy> if that's the case
<pvangundy> compile a kernel based off of the generic kernel (using the .config) and add  high mem support...just an idea
<LaserJock_> well
<LaserJock_> it's not exactly that easy
<pvangundy> why
<LaserJock_> well, kernel maintenance is very time consuming and difficult
<LaserJock_> if you could convince the Ubuntu kernel maintainers that high mem support should be in -generic then fine
<LaserJock_> but I'm thinking they probably don't have it in there for a reason
<pvangundy> i know, I compile maintain and compile the kernel where I work. That's why you use the old .config to have the majority of the work done for you then add the support you need. :)
<pvangundy> true, and you did answer my question
<pvangundy> i should pose this to the kernel developers/maintainers. I just didn't know if they might be in here as well
<pvangundy> and i would also think they don't have it in there for a reason and that's why it's not...maybe why we experienced crashes. :)
<LaserJock_> yeah, Edubuntu just uses Ubuntu kernels
<LaserJock_> what we *can* do, IMO, is have better documentation maybe so people aren't caught off-guard
<pvangundy> yup
<pvangundy> you can never have too much documentation
<pvangundy> well, what I am going to do is compile a vanilla kernel based off of the .config from the generic kernel and add high mem support and see how that goes (since we tried server version and it crashed frequently). I will come back and report at a later date and try to push high mem support through the mainstream kernel Ubuntu releases for Edubuntu
<pvangundy> nice chatting
<LaserJock_> pvangundy: no problem, and feel free to email edubuntu-devel or ubuntu-kernel
<pvangundy> thanks
<pvangundy> i'll stay in this channel just in case this spurs a talk later when people on here wake up ;)
<LaserJock_> heh, yeah, it's kind of a dead time of day
<pvangundy> i see that ;)
<LaserJock_> it's also the start of the weekend
<pvangundy> yeah, that should tell you something about me :p
<sbalneav> Evening all
<pvangundy> alright, i'm off
<pvangundy> talk to you all later
<bluekuja> ogra, around?
<high5> Hello, does anybody have any experience with setting the thin clients in the Gutsy release?
<Mil> Hola, hola
<Mil> alguien que hable espaÃ±ol?
<Mil> hello
<Mil> cant readme
<Mil> ?
<Mil> Bueno, la cosa es asi
<Mil> soy docente
<Mil> y quiero que mi live CD de Edubuntu incluya Gambas
<ctkroeker> have the ltsp5 packages been updated also for ubuntu and not just edubuntu?
<justi1> hello, I'm having trouble setting up dhcp on my edubuntu ltsp server.  I have two NIC's and I want one to listen to dhcp requests for the thin clients and the other to connect to the rest of the network.  I've read that that should be possible, but I can't find detailed instructions on how to do so.  Could any of you point me in the right direction?
<nrp> justi1, since 7.04 and possibly earlier, it should set it up automatically during install.  Like, during the install, if it detects two NICs, itll ask which one is the primary one, and use that to connect to the rest of the network.  And then it'll use the other NIC for the dhcp server
<justi1> well, I selected the correct primary one, as I am connected to the rest of the network, however, my clients won't boot from the other NIC.  Is there a command or configuration file that I can use to tell for sure that dhcp is or isn't working on the other NIC?
<nrp> hmm, well, not sure if dhcpd starts by default, try restarting dhcpd and see if there are any error messages in syslog
<justi1> I restarted dhcpd - no errors in syslog and the client won't boot.
#edubuntu 2007-10-21
<Infopirate> what is the difference between edubuntu and regular ubuntu??
<nrp> edubuntu desktop comes with additional education (k-12, mostly) related packages.  edubuntu server/workstation comes with LTSP preconfigured to set up a "classroom environment" with thin clients
<Infopirate> nice....
<bddebian> Heya
<attunix> ! #ubuntu-general
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ubuntu-general - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Rplata> Fresh install users can not switch users... They have to log off to switch users.
<Rplata> Also compiz says no whitelisted drivers found...
<sbalneav> Rplata: this on the console? Or for thin clients?
<Rplata> Thin clients both issues.
<Rplata> I installed nvidia drivers in chroot
<sbalneav> Switching users won't work on thin clients.
<sbalneav> And neither will compiz
<Rplata> No says user not logged in console or something... I had to leave though. I'm on the road.
<sbalneav> The fast switcher app won't work for thin clients
<sbalneav> Just remove it from the panel.
<Rplata> Compiz says no whitelisted drivers found.
<sbalneav> And compiz doesn't like to work remotely
<Rplata> Oh ok.
<sbalneav> Compiz wants to have the video card local.
<Rplata> The swith user button doesn't work when i clixk log out button.
<sbalneav> No, it won't
<sbalneav> It should be disabled.
<Rplata> Oh ok. Can i remove the button somehow?
<sbalneav> Both the fast user switcher, and the switch user button rely on the users being local, but they don't locally exist on the thin client.
<Rplata> Will it ever work?
<sbalneav> We don't currently have a way to remove it.
<sbalneav> No.
<Rplata> Ok
<sbalneav> Well, not unless they radically change the way it works.
<sbalneav> Locally, it relies on simply giving access to your X cookies to switch to another user
<Rplata> Another question what are some of the causes of client slowness?
<sbalneav> but that doesn't work across remote X connections.
<sbalneav> Have you enabled LDM_DIRECTX = True?
<Rplata> No
<sbalneav> By default, all traffic between the client and server is encrypted.
<sbalneav> Enabling LDM_DIRECTX = True eliminates the encryption, which, for slow clients, can be a major slow down.
<Rplata> Ok. My clients aren't slow two ghz system ...
<Rplata> Or is that slow?
<sbalneav> Well, even that fast will have a bit of latency with the added encryption.
<sbalneav> And, keep in mind, a thin client will never be as fast as a local login.
<sbalneav> Network speed is also a factor.
<Rplata> Ok. I'll try that. Btw lts.conf wasn't installed by default? Is that normal?
<sbalneav> Yep.
<sbalneav> Normally, it isn't needed anymore.  Defaults work fine out of the box.
<Rplata> Ok well i had to update ssh keys and rebuild image to grt mine working ootb. Think i have an install issue?
<Rplata> Or is it just finnicky?
<sbalneav> Was this a fresh install or an upgrade?
<Rplata> Fresh
<sbalneav> And, did you change the networking after you installed it
<sbalneav> If you change any networking (i.e. change IP addresses, or the like) you need to update the sshkeys and rebuild the image, that's perfectly normal.
<Rplata> Ok that was it then. Are future releases going to have initial setup for secondary subnet for alternate nic on install?
<sbalneav> Should be that by default.
<sbalneav> If you have an unconfigured nic, it should assign it 192.168.0.254, and enable it for ltsp use.
<Rplata> My network uses 192.168.0.x so i changed clients to worj on 10.0.0.x
<sbalneav> Ah, well, if you touch it manually, then it won't automagically happen.  You'll have to do some manual config.
<sbalneav> But it's rather minor, just the update-sshkeys, and the update image.
<sbalneav> I think for Hardy, we're planning a gui tool to manage the chroot.
<Rplata> Yeah ok. Thanks for all of the help! Anything major coming up for the next release? Ie. New cool stuff?
<Rplata> Nice!
<sbalneav> I think localapps will work. That's been years coming :)
<Rplata> What do you mean?
<sbalneav> For larger thin clients, running some apps locally, like Firefox, or VOIP phone software.
<Rplata> Awesome! Will that require hdd's?
<sbalneav> No, shouldn't.
<sbalneav> Otherwise, it wouldn't be a thin client, would it? :)
<Rplata> How will it work?
<sbalneav> The UDS is coming up soon.  Keep an eye on the specs, you'll see all the details there.
<Rplata> Uds?
<sbalneav> Ubuntu Developer's Summit
<Rplata> Oh ok cool. Think compiz will be one if those local things?
<sbalneav> I'll be blunt.  Personally, I have no interest in seeing compiz working on thin clients, as I have no use for compiz.  If someone else wants to do the work to make it work, then it'll happen.  But I won't be working on it :)  Most of the thin clients I deal with aren't capable of running compiz anyway.
<Rplata> Ok. Thanks for all the help. Keep up the good work!
<stgraber> sbalneav: any idea when will the Edubuntu specs be registered on LP (proposed for UDS scheduling) ?
<sbalneav> stgraber: No idea.  I was going to enter in a couple of specs later on today.  I don't know who's entering specs.
<sbalneav> I guess, just enter whatever one's your interested in :)
<attunix> What libraries are needed to develop in QT?
<sbalneav> attunix: You ran off last night
<sbalneav> I had worked out a command line you could use to compile.
<attunix> sbalneav: yeah, I know. :P
<attunix> oh
<attunix> sorry :(
<attunix> I got it working, anyway :P
<sbalneav> Wow
<sbalneav> just
<sbalneav> wow
<sbalneav> I was looking up the QT libs for him.
<sbalneav> He pulled the exact same stunt last night
<attunix> How do I get Edubuntu to mount my floppy drive? It says "mount: I could not determine the filesystem type, and none was specified."
<attunix> I'll try formatting it and see what happens....
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<attunix> It works! :)
<attunix> just needed a little formatting....:P
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> Amaranth, morning mate
<Skratz0r> Hey duders...
<Skratz0r> Whats the difference between Ubuntu and the rest? (Edu, k, go, etc)
<Skratz0r> BBL dudes
<Skratz0r> (Idling)
#edubuntu 2008-10-13
<rhce7320> has anybody used fai as well as ltsp to run a combo of thin & thick clients?
<pettter> Hello, the FAQ page could use a few minor updates, such as referring to the current releases, as opposed to 6.06 and 5.10
<nubae> which FAQ page?
<pettter> http://edubuntu.org/FAQ
<nubae> really the upto date stuff is here: help.ubuntu.com/LTSPUbuntu
<nubae> and: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
<ogra> 6.06 is still supported for a year
<nubae> really wow
<pettter> "The current version of Edubuntu (and Ubuntu and Kubuntu) has been released in June 2006, and is known as Edubuntu 6.06 LTS (Long term Support)."
<ogra> 5.10 can definately go
<ogra> and the above sentence indeed isnt accurate
<pettter> "This is the recommended release for use in large deployments. The first Enterprise release is Edubuntu 6.06, due for launch in June."
<nubae> hehe
<pettter> I just figured someone might want to look it over.
<pettter> ;)
<nubae> ogra: can anyone edit the edubuntu pages, or only u?
<ogra> i ?
<ogra> i cant, no
<ogra> highvoltage or pips1 can
<ogra> if you like to i think iving you an account would make sense
<ogra> though its all drupal and php ...
<nubae> well, sure... think I can probably put to use what I learnt during documentation on LTSP
<nubae> drupal and php isnt a problem
<ogra> highvoltage, ? can you get nubae an account ?
<nubae> have u seen http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP?
<nubae> Lns did a really good job cleaning up there
<highvoltage> ogra: yep
<highvoltage> nubae: do you have an account on the edubuntu site at the moment?
<highvoltage> nubae?
<ogra> highvoltage, i doubt that
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> nubae: just give me a ping when you're back, and we'll sorty it out.
<nubae> highvoltage: I have an account on launchpad
<nubae> if this is different than edubuntu I'll register
<highvoltage> nubae: ok, I'll pm you
<nubae> would be good if edubuntu page used openid like launchpad and the wikis
<highvoltage> nubae: *nod*
<highvoltage> nubae: launchpad is an openid provider these days, isn't it?
<nubae> yes
<stgraber> Drupal6 has OpenID support, the Launchpad developers are also maintaining a (non-free IIRC) modules for integration with OpenID+LP-teams in Drupal5
<nubae> #edubuntu-es has no users on it :D
<highvoltage> nubae: it's been basically dead since mhz haven't been on irc.
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah, that's quite cool.
<crimsun> ogra: when you have time, would you please apply the patch in bug 133043?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 133043 in screem "Cannot close "About" window" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133043
<ogra> crimsun, will do
<crimsun> ogra: thanks
<Lns> Anyone know how I can remove language/sessions options from LDM?
<ogra> patch the code
<Lns> ogra: ah
<ogra> there is no option or anything
<ogra> feel free to file a whishlist bug
<Lns> ogra: ok, i'll do that..thanks :)
<ogra> it should be easy to read an environment variable thats set in lts.conf to disable it
<Lns> ogra: that's what I was thinking - just didn't know if there was one already
<ogra> Lns, btw i would suggest taking a look at the edubuntu-menus package for custom menus ;)
<Lns> ogra: oh, ok
<Lns> oooo!!
<ogra> LaserJock did some awesome work on it, sadly i moved teams before i could write the menu editor integration we planned
<Lns> nice!
<ogra> it was supposed to be integrated wiht the menu editor and the users editor so you could do group based menus ... thats possible already but you have to resort to commandline
<Lns> wow, that's some really great functionality there
<Lns> it should be more "available"!! I bet a ton of people would love that
<Lns> ogra: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/282884 FYI - thx for the info :) bbl
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282884 in ldm "Need lts.conf variable to disable "Sessions", "Languages", etc. in LDM 'Options' menu" [Undecided,New]
 * ogra sets the status
#edubuntu 2008-10-14
<Lunks> I'm kinda lost with Edubuntu. Is it on a server/client architecture? Which CDs do I need in order to use it?
<nubae> Lunks: how would you like to use it, are you a school?
<Lunks> And also, can I use Edubuntu over wireless?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<stgraber> moin sbalneav
<sbalneav> Lunks: Are you talking using an edubuntu workstation with a wireless card in it, or using wireless thin clients?
<sbalneav> Morning stgraber
<sbalneav> So that patch worked for you?
<Lunks> sbalneav: wireless thin clients
<Lunks> I'm planning on deploying Edubuntu on a computer lab on my University
<Lunks> One of the main issues is: the new lab won't have wired ethernet, just wireless.
<sbalneav> Lunks: Well, wireless isn't a very good technology to try to deploy thin clients on.  Most wireless cards can't network boot.  Some people get around this by using a regular network card connected to a wireless bridge, but since thin clients require a fairly large amount of bandwidth, you'll really (practically) only be able to have 2 or 3 going
<Lunks> Even if I've have the server wired to the AP?
<Lunks> This should solve the issue on bandwidth, I believe. I can't find out how, by looking at the docs, on how to accomplish this using wi-fi. =<
<nubae> Lunks: it wont
<sbalneav> Wireless isn't like connecting to a switch.  There's no congestion mitigation like in a switch.  Wireless is like a hub: large numbers of workstations producing large amounts of data will result in a huge number of collisions.
<nubae> you can run maybe 10 stations max
<sbalneav> I'd say less than that, but yeah, either way, you're not going to get 20 or 30 workstations going wireless.
<nubae> you might be able to use APs for every computer though
<Lunks> That's not so good heh
<nubae> pxe to wireless AP bridged to server
<nubae> expensive and silly though
<sbalneav> But by the time you spend all the money to do that, you might as well have just pulled a cat5 line to the workstation.
<Lunks> Yeah, I'd rather hang on some cables around the room
<Lunks> Any other way to use a similar approach to thin clients using Wireless?
<nubae> yeah :-) and gigabit isnt coming to wireless any time soon
<nubae> well, u could run NX or VNC
<Lunks> One of our main goals is to use wireless to provide a similar experience, at least, to thin clients (centralized management, etc.)
<sbalneav> Installing a stripped down ubuntu to a livecd or usb key would probably be better.
<nubae> or u could use fat client
<nubae> if your terminals permit it
<nubae> something like xubuntu maybe
<nubae> sbalneav: can u resend the #ltsp archives... my mail server was acting up and rejecting mails... its ok now though...
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> email again? (didn't save it :()
<Lunks> nubae: I've got the hardware, but fat clients will be ok with wireless bandwidth?
<nubae> sure
<nubae> everything is run on the clients
<nubae> take a look here: http://nubae.com/ltsp-linux-terminal-server-project-netbooted-fat-client-for-ubuntu-hardy-and-intrepid
<Lunks> Thanks
<Lunks> I will.
<nubae> what hardware have u got Lunks?
<Lunks> Basically, I'll use this with an Edubuntu (LTSP) Server, right?
<Lunks> nubae: ~100 PCs with Athlons, P4s
<Lunks> They're pretty decent
<nubae> then definetly use fat client
<nubae> its a waste to use those as thin terminals
<nubae> fat client = all the benefits of centralised user and program management, with little strain on server and bandwidth
<Lunks> One of our goals would be to wipe the hard-drives and use them (or try to use as many as) on a RAID on our server (which I don't have the specs right now), and I can guess by the name 'fat' that it doesn't eliminate the need of a hard drive, right?
<Lunks> But oh what the hell. :P
<nubae> wrong... no hard drive
<nubae> images are sent from the server to each client
<Lunks> nubae: Great, I believe I'll be deploying fat clients on my free time =)
<Lunks> Thank you very much, nubae
<Lunks> I notice it's your blog. ;)
<nubae> the hard drive is activated by default though, so u can use it for storage or whatever
<nubae> heh, yeah
<Lunks> I'll try to sort the wireless stuff using fat clients, then
<nubae> with the clients u've got should be fine.. how much ram?
<Lunks> Definetly more than 512mb, they're running Ubuntu right now
<Lunks> I just dropped on my University
<Lunks> Right now, everyone who wants to access a computer just have to login with a: student student kinda login
<Lunks> So it's not very centralized nor easy to manage
<Lunks> One of the main goals of the IT guy is to deploy thin clients, even though he doesn't seem to know much about it, so the new student gets to do all the fun, probably
<nubae> then you are in for a surprise... LTSP is a centralisation miracle
<Lunks> The only setback is this wireless thing which I'll have to sort out someday, somehow
<nubae> its no problem with fat clients
<Lunks> Probably having a small kernel booting with wpasupplicant and stuff on an USB stick or CD-ROM
<nubae> wired is better of course
<nubae> right
 * nubae wonders if there is something like an AP with multiple ethernet slots that could bridge to server
<Lunks> Just 4, nubae
<Lunks> It'll not handle it, unfortunately
<nubae> yah... hmm... u'd need 25 APs then for 100 computers
<nubae> starts getting expensive I guess
<nubae> in a smaller lab u could do it
<Lunks> haha yeah, not really the best way
<Lunks> It's not the best using Wi-Fi, either... I know.
<nubae> well only way will be booting off cd, usb, or harddrive with connection to server (the no pxe on wireless is annoying)
<Lunks> nubae: This should be doable, just booting a small kernel first, right? I never did an network boot, so it's a good learning curve to me here, sorry if I sound stupid sometimes. ;)
<nubae> Lunks: something like that yeah.... there might be some stuff on the net about it, and diskless-workstation.com sells a usb key that does that
<Lunks> I'll google this. Making a kernel boot with a few commands and binaries beside it maybe a great learning experience as well. :D
<nubae> sure... do a write up somewhere
<Lunks> I will, for sure. Thanks for all the help, nubae. :)
#edubuntu 2008-10-15
<pips1> hi
<pips1> is there a meeting in 10 mins?
<pips1> or in the evening?
<pips1> ogra ?
<ogra> pips1, we did have meetings since about 5 months anymore
<pips1> ^^^
<ogra> *didnt
<pips1> wow
<pips1> so... what's the story?
<pips1> are you now fully working on ubuntu?
<pips1> what's the story with edubuntu? is it now mainly a "community" add-on? while comminity means mostly laserjock packaging edu apps?
<pips1> *community
<pips1> hi stgraber
<ogra> i'm working in the mobile team since some months
<pips1> ic
<pips1> is RichEd still around?
<pips1> stgraber: I heard you joined canonical? is that right?
<ogra> he is at my place and i'll beat him into joining the channel if he comes out of the kitchen, but he wasnt around for months
<pips1> heh
<pips1> ogra: is that RichEd in your kitchen, or stgraber?
<pips1> or both :-)
<pips1> ?
<ogra> Rich
<pips1> oki
<pips1> Has stgraber moved to Canada?! This is what a little birdy wistled into my ear...
<pips1> RichEd come on! Have a chat with me! :-)
<pips1> hey RichEd
<pips1> how is it going?
<RichEd-> hey pips1
<pips1> long time no see
<RichEd-> okay thanks ... & yourself ?
<pips1> I'm very good
<pips1> lots of changes
<RichEd-> :)
<RichEd-> work wise ?
<pips1> yes, too
<pips1> I start work for a web dev company in zurich on nov 1st
<pips1> I'll continue teaching at the uni
<RichEd> one of our canonical chaps has been having quite a lot of contact with switzerland & edu (and CERN as well)
<pips1> I got this auto reminder from launchpad that my edubuntu membership is about to expire (in 3 days). That finally kicked me into getting in touch with you guys. :-)
<pips1> so... what's the story with edubuntu?
<pips1> ogra working on the mobile team... what about you?
<pips1> ogra: you still working on the classmate pc?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> thats all in hands of the commercial team now
<pips1> 'commercial team', aha oho
 * ogra points pips1 to http://ograblog.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/announcing-the-first-ubuntu-mobile-image
 * pips1 reads
<pips1> MID mobile internet device, ah
<pips1> 'touchscreen centric gnome mobile desktop' sounds cool
<pips1> oops, I hear my son has woken up
 * pips1 checks on son
<stgraber> pips1: I'm in Canada working for Revolution Linux on LTSP, I worked for a month as a contractor for Canonical (QA website and certification website)
<pips1> hey stgraber
<pips1> so how is canada?
<pips1> RichEd ogra I need to look after my son, who has a bit of a cold... so I won't be able to talk much :-/
<pips1> I just want to know for short if you need any help with the edubuntu.org website for the Intrepid release...
<RichEd> stgraber: hi there ... your CMPC was hijacked by lexington :( ... but i'm going to ship you my "extra" when i get back home in 2 weeks
<RichEd> how is revolution linux ?
<pips1> Clearly, I not spending much time on #edubuntu anymore... so I don't know what to do about the edubuntu membership... perhaps it should just expire..
<RichEd> pips1: i'll be looking into that in the next week ... waiting for some pages to go live on ubuntu.com which explain the shift towards ubuntu education edition
<pips1> I'll try to check back here in a bit but now i need to look after my son
<pips1> cu!
<stgraber> RichEd: cool
<stgraber> RichEd: really great, working on LTSP is really cool
<RichEd> i've had some dealings with them ... seems like they have some large rollouts for LTSP edu
<stgraber> yes, and a lot more to come :)
<stgraber> I'm basically pushing everything upstream now
<stgraber> but we have some new mass deployments that'll likely happen in a close future
<RichEd> well keep us up to date with the news if you can ...
<RichEd> this is the chap I have chatted to over email:  	Benoit St-AndrÃ©
<stgraber> yeah, he's just in front of me now :)
<nubae> Aghanistan is doing a big deployment of 20,000 xos, and will be using ubuntu servers I believe
<nubae> they're looking for volunteers, but who will want to work there I wonder :D
<RichEd> nubae: you may be surprised ... but the US military has some inspired individuals who give up time and effort to assist with the local population whilst they are stationed in "conflict" territories ...
<RichEd> i guess it helps them (the individual people) feel more human against the backdrop of the "invasion force" day job :/
<nubae> well, I'd consider it myself, but I'm too involved in the Austrian take up of xos and ltsp
 * HedgeMage peeks in
<HedgeMage> hi, guys :)
<RichEd> hi HedgeMage ... see nubae comment above ... do you know any US military guys in Afghanistan looking to support ubuntu server and xos in their spare time ;)
<HedgeMage> RichEd: I know a few people stationed there, I can put out feelers.  Unless one of my barracks rats or someone I've trained is there, though, tough luck finding someone who's ever seen Linux.  Unlike the other branches of the US military, the Army has resisted implementing Linux, and when they do, they hire in consultants to work on it, and don't let the soldiers touch it (with few exceptions)
<nubae> really, they rely on windows?
 * nubae shudders
<HedgeMage> nubae: Yep, for the most part.
<HedgeMage> nubae: after a few embarassing security breaches, they moved some of the back end to Solaris, but under protest.
 * RichEd hope the big red button does not rely on Vista ... or else we are all doomed !
<nubae> jeez...
<nubae> the world's number 1 military uses windows 8-)
<RichEd> HedgeMage: ^ oooohhh .... free software with expensive consultants ... them peops sure knows how to make their taxpayers money go further
<nubae> lol
<RichEd> nubae: number 1 at what ;)
 * RichEd ducks
<HedgeMage> nubae: not all of our military, just the army
<nubae> ah... others use Linux?
<HedgeMage> nubae: the other branches are all migrating to linux under the recommendations of the DoD and NSA
<nubae> ah cool
<HedgeMage> they aren't all Linux yet, but they are crawling there at the usual beurocratic pace :)
<nubae> funny how the first to catch on was hollywood, who is now exclusively linux based
<RichEd> nubae: makes sense ... a movie is only 90-120 mins long ... not enuff time for vista to boot is it
<HedgeMage> nubae: what is sad is that the Army personnel being retasked from Win to Solaris admins get a whole 7 days of training
<HedgeMage> These people are in charge of secure systems
<nubae> gasp...
<HedgeMage> 7 freaking days
<nubae> thats kinda like dumping them in Afghanistan or Iraq without supplies
<nubae> oh wait...
<nubae> :D
<HedgeMage> you realize that the release of OpenSolaris is a direct result of US Army contracts, right?
<nubae> nope... I looked at OpenSolaris couple years ago... but its quite different to bsd and linux
<nubae> the learning curve is huge if you're moving from windows...
<nubae> hell its huge if u move from linux
<HedgeMage> The NSA got fed up with Windows security breaches (some of which were disastrous and easy)... they gave the DoD an ultimatum: switch to Linux or else.
<nubae> servers and desktops?
<HedgeMage> Everything.
<nubae> nice, and they got a date when this is happening?
<HedgeMage> Yes, though several years out, remember that these are HUGE organizations with no one who knows anything but windows.
<HedgeMage> And, many things they can't open to the community because of intel. issues, etc.
<nubae> so it will be like hollywood, a closed army of linux devs...
<nubae> finding and training them will be the challenge
<moquist> any particular recommendations for >3G RAM on an edubuntu server other than running the server kernel instead of the desktop kernel?
<HedgeMage> The Air Force seemed relieved (NASA, which was originally part of the Air Force, was already using Linux extensively) -- the Air Force and Navy are all about their tech toys anyway.  They couldn't do their jobs without computers, and they need reliability.  They value communications personnel (IT and programming fall under commo in the military) because they know what it's like trying to function without GPS, tracking and target acquisiti
<HedgeMage> The marines' attitude toward it is "we use what the navy tells us to"
<HedgeMage> The Coast Guard has a culture closer to civilians than the rest, so they took it in stride once they realized the benefits.
<nubae> well >3 gigs u can either run 64 bit or use server kernel
<nubae> cant think of any other ways
<HedgeMage> The Army culture is different.  First off, tech jobs don't get promoted very highly.  If you don't blow stuff up, you don't get rank.
<nubae> lol
<nubae> where do u work HedgeMage?
<HedgeMage> So, tank drivers and artillerymen are in charge of base-wide and army-wide IT decisions.  This is very, very bad.
<HedgeMage> nubae: I am a web developer, but I used to be married to a guy in the Army, and I worked for the Army as a civilian.
<RichEd> ^ ahhh .... HedgeMage does that explain McCain's eminent qualifications to run a country based on a knowledge of how to blow things up as opposed to knbowledge of how to send an email ?
<HedgeMage> The non-techy people in charge of the Army's technology *freaked out* when Linux was made mandatory.  They didn't want "hippy crap", they didn't want software with "no one to hold responsible" (i.e. no big company), they didn't want to have to retrain people for what they saw as no benefit.
<HedgeMage> RichEd: I am from where Obama is from... McCain is an idiot and an empty shirt, but Obama is worse.
 * nubae wonders when Microsoft has ever been held responsible
<HedgeMage> I know!
<HedgeMage> Anyway, the Army and the higher-ups came to a compromise... if Sun would open source Solaris, then the Army would beb allowed to use it as an interim solution to stall the adoption of Linux for another decade or so.
<HedgeMage> The NSA was satisfied because they could see the source and do what they needed with it, the Army was satisfied because Sun comes with a nice, friendly beurocracy and "no hippies"
<HedgeMage> There was some OSS community involvement, I think, but I'm not sure how much.
<RichEd> HedgeMage: but S(tanford) UN(inversity) was a definate hippie origin no ? "copying the functionality" of mainframe operating systems so that any university could run it in an affordable (i.,e. costs less than a house) basis ?
<HedgeMage> RichEd: I never said it made sense
<HedgeMage> RichEd: I said it was the army attitude :P
<HedgeMage> Again, we are talking about tankers and artillerymen, not anyone trained on computers.
<HedgeMage> You don't become a General by working in IT or military intelligence.  You become a General by blowing stuff up.
<HedgeMage> Generals are even rare among army doctors... with the exception of those running the major army hospitals and the surgeon general (if not from another branch) they are almost unheard of.
<RichEd> So would Divine Brown qualify for Colonel at least ?
<HedgeMage> lol, who?
<RichEd> Divine Brown ... she blew Hugh Grant up in a taxi a few years back
<HedgeMage> oh, yeah
 * HedgeMage chuckles
<wpgmb> I have a dual nic Ubuntu 8.04 ltsp running. Clients can log in and access Internet. I would like to be able to ssh into client's /home from my system which is not part of the same subnet. I CAN ssh into the "gateway" nic, and from there jump to the "DHCP" nic. I have enable IP forwarding in /etc/sysctr.conf but it does not seem to work. What else do I need to do?
<ogra> wpgmb, what would you want in the clients homes ? they are empty, theer are no user accounts on the clients
<wpgmb> hmm. right now, the kids' computers are monitored by me from my system. I want to convert them all to thin clients, but still want to be able to access their data.
<ogra> but the sessions and accounts are on the server in a thin client setup
<wpgmb> I understand that, but I can't access the data they have on the server
<wpgmb> I was given to understand that portforwarding would let me ssh into the second nic from where I could access the /home data. But forwarding is not working. I'm thinking that in addition to the regular /etc/sysctrl.conf file an additional file perhaps specific to an ltsp setup with dual nics?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<wpgmb> hi!
<wpgmb> I just posted a message this am further to our conversation yesterday  :)
<sbalneav> Where, in edubuntu-users?
<sbalneav> I don't see anything there yet.
<wpgmb> no here
<sbalneav> Well, I just re-joined, so I don't see it.  Did you get your forwarding going?
<wpgmb> yes and no. the config file is edited, but no luck yet
<sbalneav> so, just so I understand, here's your network layout:
<sbalneav> [pc & thin client] <---> [switch] <--> [ltspbox] <--> [router] <--> [internet]
<wpgmb> correct. the "router" (IPCop box) has two nics: one (green) for my system on 192.168.0.0/24 and another one (blue) going to to the ltsp server with 192.168.1.0/24.  The second (dhcp) nic in ltsp server has static 192.168.3.1.  This last nic is not plugged into the switch - I was going to use a separate switch, or maybe Vlan the (cisco 1900 series) switch to separate them.
<wpgmb> My system 192.168.0.2 can ping 192.168.1.2 and ssh into it. I can't ssh directly into x.x.3.1, only through x.x.1.2
<sbalneav> right, so why not simply move the pc to the same subnet that the ltsp server
<sbalneav> 's backbone is on
<sbalneav> in other words:
<sbalneav> [terminals] <--> [ltsp-server] <--> switch (connect pc here) <-> firewall ...
<sbalneav> why double route the pc through the ltsp server.  One of your cards on the ltsp server is your "backbone" (i.e. internet traffic, filesharing, etc) one is just for the terminals
<sbalneav> really, you don't WANT the pc on the terminal side, but on the backbone side.
<wpgmb> I could do that, but I don't think that would solve the problem of not being able to ssh into the second nic. I think that problem is strictly inside the ltsp. The fact that I can ssh into the backbone nic sorta proves that, or not?
<sbalneav> Well, thin clients ssh into the nic on that side, obviously, to log in.  And if you can ssh into the ltsp server from the backbone side, it's the same thing as sshing in from the thin client side.
<sbalneav> there isn't a "problem" with the ltsp server, you just need to set up forwarding, and do iptables rules to make it all work.
<sbalneav> If you really want to do that, it can be done,  but it really shouldn't be necissary, unless you're simply wanting to do it as an intellectual excercise
<sbalneav> If that's the case, then there's about 1x10^6 web pages on setting up firewalls/forwarding between two nics, any one of them should work.  As well, the ufw package within ubuntu should also help you.
<wpgmb> I'll have a look at all that, unless you can think of an easier way for me to NOT have my system as a LTSP client, but still can access the actual clients as if they were stand alones on the same subnet as my system.
<sbalneav> But are the thin clients standalones?  are they only "sometimes" thin clients?
<sbalneav> I guess I'm missing out on why the pc needs to be able to access the thin clients.
<wpgmb> no, i'm going to have them permanently as thins, b/c they will have more "power" that way, since they're kinda old
<wpgmb> I don't need to actually access the client boxes; I realize they will be "empty", but I want to be able to access their /home on the server and I want to be able to manipulate data on their /home's as well
<sbalneav> But the /home comes from the server, not the thin client
<sbalneav> you don't need access to the thin client to manipulate home, just the server
<sbalneav> that's why I'm saying, you could just have the pc on the backbone side, and it would do exactly what you want.
<sbalneav> no firewalling necessary
<wpgmb> <quote>I don't need to actually access the client boxes; I realize they will be "empty", but I want to be able to access their /home on the server</quote>  lol
<sbalneav> <quote>unless you can think of an easier way for me to NOT have my system as a LTSP client, but still can access the actual clients as if they were stand alones on the same subnet as my system
<sbalneav> That's my easier way: move the PC to the backbone side.
<wpgmb> I'll move some wires around tonight and see how that pans out. ttl - (we should do that over a beer sometime!)
<sbalneav> You know where to find me.  I'll be here at Legal Aid 'till I retire, or they fire me :)
<wpgmb> I don't think I could show up there with a six pack  :)
<sbalneav> heh, no, but you can find me here to TELL me where to show up for the beer :)  the sbalneav@ltsp.org just forwards here to my @legalaid.mb.ca account.
<wpgmb> ok, will do soon!
<nubae> sbalneav: did my mail server reject your mail again?
<sbalneav> I daenno, lemme have a quick shuftie
<sbalneav> nubae: see personal message
<pips1> RichEd: lemme know if the Intrepid Ibex edubuntu add-on cds will be downloaded from edubuntu.org or only from ubuntu.com... unfortunately, on release day itself, I have an appointment from 10am onwards, so if you need my help, we need to do it the day before... thanks
<pips1> ogra: ^^^
 * ogra has no clue how they will be handled, all i know is they wont be available through shipit
<pips1> ta
<pips1> cu folks!
<pips1> good night
#edubuntu 2008-10-16
 * HedgeMage peeks in
<wpgmb> grrrrr.... known bug in /etc/sysctl.conf seems to prevent me from forwarding.  Gonna try tonight with disabling onboard NIC and adding second pci nic. Perhaps a driver issue?
<highvoltage> hey nubae
<sbalneav> !seen laserjock
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<sbalneav> !last laserjock
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about last laserjock
<sbalneav> !help
<ubottu> Hi! I'm #edubuntu's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://tinyurl.com/5zfb6t - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<ogra> !boo
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about boo
<sbalneav> !don't know anything about
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<sbalneav> ARRRGH
<sbalneav> To tail recursion then
<sbalneav> /To/No/
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i think i have seen him two days ago in #ubuntu-bugs
<RichEd> HedgeMage: ping ??
#edubuntu 2008-10-17
<wpgmb> darn. Still having trouble with port forwarding between two nics. I disabled onboard nic, removed pci nic and installed a dual nic card I had lying around. Edited the necessary file, reboot, and both nics work fine. However - portforwarding is still not okay. I can ssh into eth1 (the "dhcp" side of the ubuntu ltsp server) and ping a system on the same subnet as eth0 (the backbone gateway of the ltsp server). However - that is only a
<wpgmb> edit: the backbone gateway is not eth1, but eth0
<chri1> hi all
<chri1> I have an Ubuntu prob was hoping someone could help with.
<chri1> I installed ubuntu 8.  now it keeps asking to reboot so i want to fresh reinstall. But i cant figure out how to boot from the cd again now that im in ubuntu
<sbalneav> Morning all
<nubae> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey nubae
<sbalneav> So, ready to "solve absolutely any problem that stops hundreds,
<sbalneav> thousands, hundred of thousands, or even millions of boys and girls around
<sbalneav> the world to completely finish a primary schooling because of the high
<sbalneav> costs
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> We've got our work cut out for us.
<nubae> we advance though... and rather fast... too
<LaserJock> anyone seen pips1 lately?
<highvoltage> not besides that email
<ogra> LaserJock, !
<ogra> yes, he was here on wed.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: still around?
<ogra> LaserJock, sbalneav was looking for you s well
<LaserJock> ogra: hi
<LaserJock> ogra: I'm getting us a ubuntu-style download page for edubuntu.org
<ogra> nice
<LaserJock> ogra: it looks like Ubuntu is further downplaying the Ubuntu Alternate .iso on the download page
<LaserJock> so I'm going to put it in  our download page
<LaserJock> so it will list both Ubuntu Alternate and Edubuntu Addon
<LaserJock> with some helpful wording :-)
<LaserJock> stgraber: around?
<stgraber> LaserJock: sort of, not for long. I'll likely be leaving the office in 30min or so
#edubuntu 2008-10-18
<budgy> hi
<LaserJock> anybody around this time of day?
<LaserJock> hi bdoin
<bdoin> hi
<stgraber> hey LaserJock
<stgraber> LaserJock: I wondered, are you coming to UDS this time ?
<LaserJock> most likely not
<stgraber> :(
<LaserJock> I'm trying to graduate around there
<LaserJock> and I have teaching duties
<LaserJock> UDS is during finals week
<stgraber> oh, that's bad (but a good reason not to come to UDS)
<LaserJock> however, if I can get off a day or two maybe I'll drive over
<stgraber> would be cool
#edubuntu 2008-10-19
<calimer> edward-p i need to know how to install karbon14 (koffice) on my edubuntu
<calimer> any takers?
<LaserJock> calimer: on 8.04?
<calimer> edward-p ?
<calimer> he picked a bad time to go afk :D
<edward-p> sorry there, me from indonesia. (sorry for the english also) what is the time there?
<calimer> 8:45pm in NY :D
<LaserJock> you should be able to run apt-get install karbon
<juliux> ogra: morgen;)
<juliux> ogra: what have you done with tablet pc support in intrepid?
<ogra> juliux, why ? anyhing wrong ?
<ogra> juliux, btw http://grabanddrag.mozdev.org/index.html
<Eeyore-Jr> hi.  what are the base requirements for ltsp?
<nubae> Eeyore-Jr: that depends on the amount of clients and the server, but check the documentation, there's a lot in there
<Eeyore-Jr> wehre is the docs located?
<nubae> there's a link to if from here: help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
#edubuntu 2009-10-12
<alkisg_work> Good morning
<digital_rouge> helllo
<digital_rouge> anyone here
<digital_rouge> or a bunch of bots
<alkisg_work> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<digital_rouge> ahh someoen sorry
<digital_rouge> well i was attempting to connect my tv thru s video
<digital_rouge> and i clicked reflect screen
<digital_rouge> logged off logged on now the resolution is correct but the screen dosent o all the way to the egde
<digital_rouge> edge
<alkisg_work> digital_rouge: this is a general ubuntu question, you'd get more responses if you asked this in #ubuntu. This channel (#edubuntu) is mostly for education-related topics...
<digital_rouge> yes i was there
<digital_rouge> how ever the room was being floaded
<digital_rouge> well
<alkisg_work> OK, you can hang around here and wait for an answer, but I don't think people here will answer generic questions...
<digital_rouge> im new to ubuntu and require an education in resolution adjustment
<digital_rouge> well thats ok guys thanks anyways
<digital_rouge> i think ima go back to vista
<alkisg_work> Bye
<alkisg> !info libqt4-dev
<ubottu> libqt4-dev (source: qt4-x11): Qt 4 development files. In component main, is optional. Version 4.5.0-0ubuntu4.2 (jaunty), package size 2371 kB, installed size 23024 kB
<dgroos> Anyone know why there is a 40-45 second pause between a remote control action done on iTALC and it actual implementation on the remote client?  Is this the way it's supposed to be?
<Lns> dgroos: don't have much experience w/italc, but is it using ssh for remote client cmds?
<dgroos> hmmm... not even sure if it is--I was using the graphical interface so might be via another route?  What are you using on TCM (did I get name right?)
<dgroos> TCM NG that's right.
<Lns> dgroos: well nothing yet, waiting for tcm development to turn around a bit. using some hacked together scripts in the meantime ;)
#edubuntu 2009-10-13
<dgroos> May the Force be with you (MTFBWY?)
<Lns> haha
<dgroos> Goin' home! See you Lns
<Lns> by dgroos
<Lns> bye*
<jbicha> when I tried to install from the latest Edubuntu DVD build, I get the following error: Debootstrap error Invalid release file:  no entry for multiverse/binary-i386/Packages.
<LaserJock> jbicha: yep, we're working on that
<jbicha> thanks
<jbicha> is there a workaround or will I just need to be patient?
<LaserJock> jbicha: are you trying to install LTSP?
<jbicha> no...I just was curious to see what it looked like, there's a free education seminar this weekend I thought I might share some DVDs if it was suitable
<LaserJock> jbicha: use the "Try before install" or "Install Edubuntu" menu items
<LaserJock> jbicha: it's just the text-based installer that's messed up right now
<jbicha> yeah, I was trying the text-based installer
<jbicha> I can't get the GUI working in VirtualBox
<jbicha> finally, I've had all sorts of trouble with GUI installs with Karmic
<jbicha> this part of the installer doesn't really make sense http://imagebin.org/67569
<jbicha> bug 449989
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449989 in ubiquity "[karmic] Edubuntu offers to install side-by-side but no other partitions are present" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449989
<jbicha> oops, that wasn't a bug...the text-mode installer created a partition for me before it died
<LaserJock> morning everybody
<alkisg> Hi LaserJock
<sbalneav> Morning all
<LaserJock> hi Scotty
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Told McQuillan you were thinking of coming, but for the pet issue.  He said to give him a call, he was sure something could be arranged.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I talked to him over the weekend
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I went ahead and signed up on the wiki
<LaserJock> sbalneav: my wife says she doesn't mind me going if it doesn't work out with the dog
 * sbalneav hugs LaserJock 
 * sbalneav lifts wallet
<sbalneav> BWAHAHA
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I'm a little more careful about that after Paris
<Ahmuck> morning
<LaserJock> ogra: ping
<ogra> sorry, on a call atm
<LaserJock> ogra: could you pong when you have a minute?
<ogra> will be a short minute, but yes
<LaserJock> thanks
<ogra> LaserJock, pong
<LaserJock> ogra: I'm looking to upload edubuntu-artwork
<ogra> but ?
<LaserJock> ogra: it looks like edubuntu's gdm.conf is a tweaked copy from an old old gdm
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> ogra: I wondered if you just copied Ubuntu's gdm.conf
<ogra> i did but ages ago
<ogra> throw it away, its not used anymore
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so should I do the same thing again
<ogra> and its very hard to change gdm config nowadays
<ogra> i'd wait for lucid with themeing gdm
<ogra> largely you need to theme xplash too for the wallpaper
<ogra> gdm only has options for the gtk theme used, you can put a file for it into /usr/share/gconf/defaults i guess
<ogra> LaserJock, thats all ?
 * ogra needs to go
<LaserJock> ogra: I guess so
<ogra> great :)
<LaserJock> I still don't know exactly what to do
<LaserJock> but I'm going to try to get some help from kwii
<ogra> look at the postinst of gdm it has the keys
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> just create a gconf override file for them
<ogra> like we do for other stuff in that package iirc
<LaserJock> k
 * alkisg finally got the ltsp bugs to fit in one launchpad page :P :D
<LaserJock> ogra: would it perhaps be better to just drop the gdm stuff for Karmic? I wonder how crazy it'll look if we have parts Edubuntu themed (gtk,icons) and parts Ubuntu (background)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> thats why i said keep it for lucid
<chomwitt> hi. does anyone know about italc setup?
#edubuntu 2009-10-14
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I just got an email from somebody wanting to get teacher training for Edubuntu
<greeneggsnospam> heh
<LaserJock> I've gotten quite a rash of people asking for help/info
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: same as well, i get emails complaining about the wiki and manuals
<LaserJock> oh?
<mhall119> you know, JBoss got started as a business because people wanted training on it, and the guy who wrote it just started holding training
<mhall119> just saying
<LaserJock> I don't get so many of those
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I just don't know what to do with it
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: i could update the manual though
<jsgotangco> but it would take a while
<LaserJock> I'd like to shove it Canonical's way and say "hey, people want some training"
<jsgotangco> and i probably won't touch anything i don't know (like ltsp)
<LaserJock> dinda might have some thoughts
<jsgotangco> i kind of average like 500 words a day in technical writing lately so it shouldn't take that much to update it for next release
<jsgotangco> i wouldn't commit to anything for this release though
<LaserJock> I do wish people would step up and work on docs in general
<LaserJock> it's got a fairly low barrier to entry
<jsgotangco> are you going to UDS?
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> have to work unfortunately
<jsgotangco> i have a question though
<LaserJock> but I am going to the LTSP hackfest at the end of the month
<jsgotangco> after this release
<jsgotangco> what's the roadmap?
<LaserJock> good question
<LaserJock> I think it's going to depend quite a bit on where people step up
<LaserJock> I know I'm a broken record, but I can't keep this up really
<jsgotangco> yeah
<LaserJock> for Karmic we succeeded in creating a DVD
<LaserJock> that's awesome
<LaserJock> sbalneav also fixed sabayon, big win there
<jsgotangco> let's be slackware then :)
<LaserJock> but beyond that I'm not sure where we've moved forward much
<LaserJock> so I have a decent Roadmap in my mind for Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> that's probably a  good start
<LaserJock> but it involves more people than just me implementing it
<jsgotangco> do you have it in a wiki?
<jsgotangco> or a brainstorming wiki for starters
<LaserJock> well, we've had bits here and there
<nixternal> LaserJock: aren't the LTSP hackfests right there in boston?
<LaserJock> Maine
<nixternal> whoa, you even got jerome in here talking
<nixternal> I will be in Maine next week to start my bike trip
<jsgotangco> nixternal: its just 10:20am here so I am active at this time
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: the problem seems to be not so much in the creating of plans but the implementation
<nixternal> I don't care what time it is, I am never active
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: i a gree
<LaserJock> once I start talking about plans then it seems like things derail a bit
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: although if we are successful in some ways for this release
<jsgotangco> maybe we could "freeze" that and fix the other stuff
<LaserJock> people all have a different idea of what Edubuntu is or should be, etc.
<jsgotangco> considering there isn't a lot of manpower
<LaserJock> well, there's just a heck of a lot that needs to be done
<jsgotangco> it never ends
<LaserJock> even just on the packaging/installer level, not counting things like docs, the website, etc.
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: but since the UI doesn't change much or is just dependent on Gnome doc updates won't take a big chunk of work which I am committing for next
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: honestly we need a pm
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I'm somewhat of a mind to just have everybody create their own roadmap
<pacifica> Hi there.... I'm having some difficulties with LTSP / USB sticks - anyone here who knows a bit about that?
<LaserJock> then put them all together and stick it on the wiki somewhere
<LaserJock> pacifica: you might want to try #ltsp
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: then let's do a virtual sprint just to identify though
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: as in project manager?
<jsgotangco> yes
<pacifica> (nobody home in #ltsp)
<jsgotangco> you can't promise 100 people their 100 requests
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: no
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I was really hoping Canonical could spring for a project manager
<jsgotangco> so let's list them down and prioritize
<LaserJock> I was hoping 1/2 time project manager 1/2 project engineer
<jsgotangco> well if in the extreme case
<jsgotangco> you can start forking the whole project and still use LP, etc.
<LaserJock> we don't need that
<LaserJock> we just need somebody with time
<LaserJock> I could do pm if I had ~4hrs/day to devote to it
<jsgotangco> like i said its in the extreme case that this is still gennting snubbed at
<jsgotangco> getting
<LaserJock> so far Canonical has just left us alone
<LaserJock> they don't seem anti-Edubuntu, the're just not putting any people towards it
<LaserJock> *they're
<jsgotangco> well i don't see the point of you putting so much effort into something they don't care enough
<LaserJock> well, whether Canonical cares or not shouldn't matter in the end should it?
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is for its users more than for Canonical I'd think
<jsgotangco> it does
<jsgotangco> they still ride on to your effort without doing anything
<LaserJock> I don't know that they are riding on it though
<jsgotangco> they still get word of mouth
<LaserJock> I believe they've stopped selling support for it
<LaserJock> I suppose, but probably less than other Ubuntu derivatives
<LaserJock> they're still giving us a fair amount of support
<LaserJock> just not people
<LaserJock> I still get to have cjwatson figure out the .iso building, that's a great help
<LaserJock> in any case
<jsgotangco> don't get me wrong its just my opinion like I said I would commit to the next release
<LaserJock> it is what it is
<jsgotangco> of we stick to DVD then let's stick to that for next
<LaserJock> Mark and the Canonical executives get to determine where they put their money
<LaserJock> and we just have to deal with it
<jsgotangco> oh im aware its a business (i run one myself)
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: so how do you run a successful project when nobody has full time (or really even part-time) effort?
<jsgotangco> it depends on how you measure your goals
<jsgotangco> if your issue is manpower then you shouldn't offer too much on the table
<jsgotangco> nobody complained about slackware being maintained by 1 person
<LaserJock> sure, but that 1 person did a whole lot
<jsgotangco> how do you think the ubuntustudio folks manage? is there an active community behind it?
<LaserJock> sorta
<LaserJock> I think they're sort of in a similar situation
<LaserJock> either you have 1 strong person that can keep everything together or things just seem to fall apart
<jsgotangco> are you comfortable with that position of a strong man?
<jsgotangco> strong man of the project rather
<LaserJock> I don't  have time for it no
<jsgotangco> ok let's change the topic towards this release
<jsgotangco> since we have a dvd in the works and we're confident of a release
<jsgotangco> does it make sense to stick to that release and not introduce anything spectacular for next and istead focus on community building again
<LaserJock> I think we have to do more
<LaserJock> we've got a DVD, but barely
<jsgotangco> do more feature wise?
<LaserJock> well, somewhat
<LaserJock> more fixing things so they are done properly
<LaserJock> right now I'm removing all gdm theming from our artwork package
<LaserJock> because GDM has changed and I don't have time to figure out how to make a proper theme for it
<jsgotangco> so its more of integrating bits and pieces already set in place to have coherence and consistency rather than introducing a different way
<LaserJock> yeah, I would say more so
<LaserJock> definitely that should be the priority, IMO
<LaserJock> there are things like Sugar, Qimo, and some cool telepathy stuff nubae has been working on that I'd love to see included
<LaserJock> but we need to get the basics down first, IMO
<jsgotangco> we should list them down then and set priorities
<jsgotangco> so we can tell the community what we can and what we can't and need help
<jsgotangco> can do / can't do
<LaserJock> yep
<jsgotangco> ok for this release (9.10), what do we need to do
<LaserJock> 1) make sure DVD works (especially text-based installer)
<LaserJock> 2) update edubuntu-artwork and edubuntu-docs to 9.10
<LaserJock> 3) write release notes and release announcement
<LaserJock> 4) update edubuntu.org with new info
<LaserJock> I'm working on 1) and 2) presently
<jsgotangco> okay i'll also do 1) point me to where to download
<jsgotangco> i can draft 3)
<jsgotangco> isn't 2) take some work though?
<LaserJock> 1) http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/ but wait until the 14th build is done
<LaserJock> 13th is known bad
<jsgotangco> okay
<LaserJock> 2) has taken my entire day almost, yes
<jsgotangco> shit its a dvd
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> ill wait for 14
<sbalneav> Eveing all
<LaserJock> hi
<sbalneav> Hey hey.
<sbalneav> So, we talking about "what's next"?
<LaserJock> kinda yeah
<LaserJock> and how to make the project work
<LaserJock> I've spent too much time again in the last 2 weeks
<LaserJock> chasing down problems and trying to get karmic out the door
<LaserJock> and in the mean time I'm getting quite a few emails about Edubuntu
<LaserJock> it seems like the user demand is out there
<sbalneav> Lets do this.  You're going to be at the hackfest, yes?
<sbalneav> teach me packaging.
<sbalneav> I'm so *very* limited in what I can do.  I understand the upstream stuff,     but the packaging I'm lost with.
<sbalneav> I feel I could make more of a difference if I knew what I was doing.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so 2 things I want to do during hackfest
<LaserJock> 1) write down everything I think needs to be done for Edubuntu 1.04 and what I'm willing to do
<LaserJock> 2) teach sbalneav how to package
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: so i was proposing that whatever gets released for this month, we don't apply radical changes for next and focus on cohesion and consistency
<LaserJock> I'm a tad concerned that people will lose interest if we don't have something new to give them
<LaserJock> we haven't done much radically new in a year or so
<jsgotangco> im more concred if what you give to them isn't stable for long term use
<LaserJock> this release we moved from add-on to DVD, but it's still the same apps
<LaserJock> gotta take dog for walk, bbiab
<jsgotangco> ok
<sbalneav> jsgotangco: I'd tend to agree.  I think if we give people a SOLID product, with most of the bugs beaten out of it, with a GOOD handbook, that'd be a winner.
<sbalneav> Obviously, we can't do much about base ubuntu: whatever bling gets put in there, is what we'll get by default.
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i tend to stick to the mindset that edubuntu users aren't that much interested on 6 month release cycle changes
<LaserJock> sbalneav: note that now that we're a DVD we don't necessarily have to stick to Ubuntu
<jsgotangco> yes! let's use enlightenment then! lol
<jsgotangco> kidding
<jsgotangco> :D
<sbalneav> Stick to Ubuntu's release cycle, you mean?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: no, I mean stick to Ubuntu's apps
<LaserJock> we're more stuck with Ubuntu's release cycle
<jsgotangco> does it make sense we won't stick to the next cycle and focus on improvements to 9.10?
<LaserJock> well, 10.04 is a LTS
<LaserJock> seems like a good time to me
<sbalneav> Well, I was hoping we'd get THIS one out the door as the "preview", and really hammer down for 10.04, which should be an LTS release.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but we more-or-less have to release every 6 months
<LaserJock> we can call it whatever we like
<sbalneav> Do we "have" to?
<LaserJock> basically
<jsgotangco> i agree with sbalneav though
<sbalneav> hm.
<LaserJock> our packages are going to get re-synced every 6 months
<LaserJock> things need to be maintained
<LaserJock> I would call the non-LTS releases maintenance releases
<sbalneav> ok, but we target any "big features" we want only for LTS releases.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> we're free to target however we want
<LaserJock> and like I said, we're free to call the releases whatever we need to
<LaserJock> but we do need to actually "release", IMO
<sbalneav> ok
<LaserJock> we could call them Development Previews or something
<jsgotangco> what if we stick to LTS
<LaserJock> but part of the problem is that the "big" features" often take more than 1 release
<LaserJock> 1 release to plan
<LaserJock> 1 release to implement first round
<LaserJock> 1 release to polish
<LaserJock> if I had my way the way we'd do releases would be the following (I think):
<LaserJock> LTS (our primary release)
<LaserJock> LTS+1 is maintenance, catch all the bugs we missed
<LaserJock> LTS+2 start the new features
<LaserJock> LTS+3 get things more-or-less in place
<LaserJock> LTS+4 = LTS
<sbalneav> LaserJock+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<jsgotangco> I agree
<sbalneav> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<sbalneav> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<jsgotangco> we stick to LTS
<sbalneav> How can you tell I like this idea.
<sbalneav> Document this NOW.
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> I think I could even get it down to a general TODO or checklist for each one of those
<jsgotangco> you get LTS updates along the way
<jsgotangco> and piggyback with a stable release
<LaserJock> ok, I need to get to bed
<sbalneav> k
<LaserJock> let me think about it some and write up a proposal of sorts
<LaserJock> outlining a bit more what each of those stages would entail
<LaserJock> I got edubuntu-artwork uploaded
<LaserJock> edubuntu-docs is tomorrow and I hope we're done for uploads
<LaserJock> g'night everybody
<jsgotangco> later
<jsgotangco> good chat
<jbicha> I think I'd like to learn packaging also if someone has the time and there's a need
<sbalneav> Morning all
<jbicha> good morning
<jbicha> I'd like to help with edubuntu; is there a list of things that needs done?
<sbalneav> Well, you can always start by fixing bugs.
<jbicha> I don't think I know enough programming for that yet
<sbalneav> Hold on, I'll get you the URL with the list of package bugs.
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> Well, what skills do you have?
<jbicha> packaging or documentation sound interesting
<sbalneav> Well, packaging requires programming.
<sbalneav> As for documentation, you could help with the wiki, or contribute to the handbook
<sbalneav> Do you know DocBook XML?
<jbicha> no, but it's not that difficult, is it?
<sbalneav> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<sbalneav> Probably the best bet would be to start in on the wiki, then.
<jbicha> I need a little more direction on the wiki; I know MediaWiki syntax but what needs done? and who else is working on the wiki?
<sbalneav> have a look at the edubuntu-users mailing list, I beleive we have a wiki-day coming up where interested people can kick in...
<sbalneav> one sec, I'll get you the link.
<sbalneav> At the moment, I believe no-one's working on the wiki.
<sbalneav> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2009-October/005698.html
<jbicha> is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ used or is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ the only wiki?
<sbalneav> Not sure, I don't have much to do with the wiki.  I tend to plug away on the handbook, and do bug fixing.
<sbalneav> Probably contact highvoltage.  He should be able to point you in the right direction.
<jbicha> thanks
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you realize that the fatal flaw with our plan is if Ubuntu LTS+1 is a total mess
<alkisg> Won't edubuntu be aligned only with lts releases from now on?
<LaserJock> alkisg: here was our plan from last night:
<LaserJock> LTS (our primary release)
<LaserJock> LTS+1 is maintenance, catch all the bugs we missed
<LaserJock> LTS+2 start the new features
<LaserJock> LTS+3 get things more-or-less in place
<LaserJock> LTS+4 = LTS
<LaserJock> now that seems like a good plan but Ubuntu is shifting underneath us every release
<LaserJock> so my concern would be if Ubuntu had a not-so-good release for LTS+1 due to heavy feature development
<LaserJock> while we're trying to do a maintenance type release
<alkisg> I think most "new features" were put in 9.10, weren't they?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure
<LaserJock> 8.10 would be a LTS+1
<LaserJock> I don't remember it being spectacular
<LaserJock> probably not bad
<alkisg> Doesn't that depend on upstream features?
<alkisg> E.g. new xorg features, new kernel features etc?
<LaserJock> a fair amount yes
<LaserJock> but then Ubuntu, to some degree, picks and chooses what versions to use
<LaserJock> for an LTS+1 they might be more adventurous :-)
 * alkisg thinks edubuntu lacks more features than stability right now... :)
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> we really haven't tested it thoroughly
<LaserJock> in the past it's been pretty bug-ridden
<alkisg> Sure, but we don't really have much to offer that ubuntu doesn't already offer... that's what I mean
<LaserJock> sabayon completely unusable, gcompris having issues
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> but now we have a DVD
<LaserJock> which means we have to consider all the installer issues
<sbalneav> alkisg: So, I guess the question becomes, what SHOULD we offer, that we dont.
<LaserJock> for better or worse we're now responsible for the *entire* OS stack
<alkisg> LaserJock: I understand, I'm not saying that stability isn't important, of course it is. But to attract more people, shouldn't we put down a plan for features? (yeah I know we've been thought that talk many times before...)
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I think we should
<alkisg> sbalneav: well, as a teacher, I'd like for edubuntu to offer me a simpler way to setup a lab.
<LaserJock> but maybe not too much until LTS+1
<alkisg> LTSP did that; that's why I started with Ubuntu in the first place
<alkisg> Edubuntu could maybe fill the same need but for standalone installations
<alkisg> (non-LTSP)
<sbalneav> Well, define "Simpler way to set up a lab"
<LaserJock> the other issue is that it takes many more hands to develop features than stabilize an existing set of features
<sbalneav> What bits do we need that we're missing
<alkisg> A way to setup packages in all the lab?
<alkisg> A way to maintain users?
<alkisg> Shared home folders?
<alkisg> Something along those lines
<sbalneav> All of those things are there right now.
<alkisg> sbalneav, not for the teacher :(
<sbalneav> Are you saying you want a CONTROL PANEL to do those things?
<alkisg> They're there only for the experienced admin
<sbalneav> We have to be specific about what we want.
<sbalneav> "a way to maintain users" is pretty vague. :)
<LaserJock> what I would simply *love* to see is 1) a list of the tasks and features that are needed for a school lab and 2) a list of the tasks and features that a home user (parent) needs
<sbalneav> LaserJock++
<sbalneav> right.
<LaserJock> then we can match up how we're doing against the list
<LaserJock> and try to fill in the gaps
<LaserJock> but it's really hard to go on "make it easier"
<LaserJock> partially because I'm not a teacher
<alkisg> sbalneav: sure, it's vague. As a teacher, I don't know what the best way is for me to keep a list of e.g. 200 student accounts.
<LaserJock> so I can only guess (thought I think I can make reasonable guesses)
<alkisg> I'd like edubuntu to give me 1 solution for that; I don't know if it would be ldap/nfs or some other formula
<LaserJock> right, see, I'd like to see the actual tasks
<LaserJock> then we can work on the technologies needed to do it
<sbalneav> alkisg: Sure, but you can probably give us an idea as to what it would look like.
<alkisg> sbalneav: ok, for this specific part, here are my tech-side thoughts:
<sbalneav> Or, what you'd LIKE it to look like.
<alkisg> First, I thought about ldap/nfs. Then I thought that this would be really really difficult for a teacher to maintain
<alkisg> Then, I thought about libpam-sshfs etc. This could easily work
<alkisg> Now I'm thinking that may a "virtual-users" solution would be even easier (that needs a lot of explaining)
<alkisg> (~= 1 user per PC, and the home folder mounted by sshfs)
<alkisg> Now, as a teacher I wouldn't even care which of those solutions would be offered to me by edubuntu
<alkisg> As long as it worked, and I could handle it, I wouldn't mind what it was called...
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so if we had a list of tasks
<LaserJock> which would could review current solutions for
<LaserJock> assigning some level of "usability"
<jbicha> a roadmap
<sbalneav> Of all of those, the LDAP/NFS would be the EASIEST to maintain, as they simply require some meta packages.
<LaserJock> we can then assess what areas need help or maybe there are some low-hanging-fruit
<alkisg> I think that can be arranged, couldn't it? E.g. ask people to fill in the tasks that they'd like to see implemented in a wiki
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Don't we have a "Desired Features" page somewhere?
<LaserJock> probably, I don't know where
<LaserJock> that's what I wanted to have the wiki cleanup for ....
<alkisg> sbalneav: e.g. for ldap/nfs the teacher is going to ask: how do I add new users?
<alkisg> If you tell him to create text files and run import commands, well, I think you lost him :)
<LaserJock> couldn't we just throw a GUI on that?
<sbalneav> alkisg: My first question is: are teachers allowed to/supposed to add users?
<alkisg> Well, if edubuntu came with nfs/ldap integration and a gui, then I know many many teachers that would prefer it !
<sbalneav> How do you maintain standards?  Don't school tech staff do this?
<alkisg> sbalneav: yes, in most small schools the computer teacher is also the admin
<alkisg> E.g. only a handful of schools here in greece are large enough to have tech staff
<sbalneav> Ok, so it's just ONE teacher who does this, not every teacher in the school adding users willy-nilly.
<alkisg> Yes
<alkisg> At least here it's the teacher that "owns" the lab - other teacher may teach in that lab, but they don't have administration rights
<sbalneav> As for a gui, I've already started work on a Python GUI for adding LDAP users.  And I have scripts for setting up standardized LDAP servers, and scripts for setting up NFS servers, etc.
<alkisg> sbalneav: well, if you managed to add those to edubuntu, I think teachers would have a great reason to prefer it to plain ubuntu
<sbalneav> The problem is, for me, as always, packaging.  However, LaserJock and I will be together in Maine next week, so I'm going to hopefully get all this answered.
<sbalneav> I got Sabayon going for this go-round, for next go round, I want to create a:
<sbalneav> edubuntu-ldap-server package, that creates a "standard" ldap server.
<sbalneav> edubuntu-ldap-client package that is installed on ldap client machines.
<sbalneav> edubuntu-nfs-server package, that creates a "standard" NFS server
<sbalneav> edubuntu-nfs-client package, self explanatory.
<sbalneav> and an edubuntu-ldap-guitools for the used/group program.
<sbalneav> THEN
<alkisg> That'd be perfect for the user administration problem :)
<sbalneav> in the installer part of the DVD we could have a question:
<sbalneav> "Do you want this to be a <whatever we call it> CLient, or server?
<sbalneav> If you pick "server" then you get the ldap and NFS server packages installed.
 * alkisg would also add a question for a standalone, home user pc
<sbalneav> if it's a client, then it asks the hostname/ip of a server, and boom, you get shared home dirs and LDAP.
<sbalneav> Well you need 3 choices.
<sbalneav> Server, Client or Standalone
<alkisg> sbalneav: that's exactly the choices I was describing for my "eduubuntu remix" :) Perfect match!
<sbalneav> Now, all the actual PROGRAMMING bits to make this work, I've got in the bag.
<sbalneav> how the heck we pull this off PACKAGING wise, I dunno.
<sbalneav> f'rinstance.
<sbalneav> Setting up an "edubuntu-ldap-server" package would require:
<sbalneav> installing open-ldap
<alkisg> Also, we could e.g. install italc-master in the server, and italc-client in the clients; or squid server on  the server, and automatically configure the clients with wap; etc
<sbalneav> then buggering about with files in /etc to create a pre-configured "out of the box" LDAP schema.
<sbalneav> but, according to what I've been able to glean, packaged are NOT supposed to bugger with stuff in /etc.
<alkisg> Right. I hope LaserJock can help with those, he's the most experienced with packaging amongst us
<sbalneav> so how we accomplish that, I dunno :)
<alkisg> sbalneav: I think you can create symlinks to /var, and dynamically create configuration files there
<alkisg> (at least I think what vagrantc once proposed to me)
<sbalneav> that's where I fall apart.
<sbalneav> that's the bits I don't know.
<jbicha> some type of edubuntu-default-settings could be packaged separately than the more vanilla package
 * alkisg last year got a set of scripts to automatically setup LTSP labs the way we want them. This year I'd like to automate the installation of an non-LTSP lab. From the next year I'd like to push as much of these methods/scripts as I can upstream.
<sbalneav> Help me Obi-Wan-LaserJock, you're my only hope :)
 * sbalneav straps cinnamon rolls to his head
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> how does LTSP fit in the scheme of things regarding Sever, Client, Standalone?
<LaserJock> is that a 4th option?
<alkisg> Well, it's completely different, sure
<alkisg> It doesn't need nfs, nor ldap
<alkisg> I'm not even sure if classrooms using LTSP should be a target group for edubuntu anymore, now that ltsp is part of plain ubuntu
<alkisg> I.e. they should be able to setup a lab with an ubuntu+ltsp installation, and an edubuntu-educational-packages installation on top of that
<alkisg> They only setup a single computer after all, it doesn't take as much time as an entire classroom, they can affort to install things after the initial installation
<sbalneav> Probably this is a tasksel thing we could pop up
<sbalneav> like ubuntu-server does.
<sbalneav> With tickoff's for:
<sbalneav> LTSP server
<sbalneav> Edubuntu LDAP server
<sbalneav> Edubuntu NFS server
<sbalneav> etc.
<alkisg> LaserJock: can a tasksel create arbitrary /etc/configuration files?
<alkisg> (I'm thinking that my set of scripts worked just fine for dozens of teachers... maybe scripts are also the way to go here, bundled in a nice gui)
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> it depends on the actual program more than the packaging
<LaserJock> for instance apache is set up so that other packages can just drop in config files
<LaserJock> the packaging rule is that no more than 1 package can "own" a file
<LaserJock> and a package is not supposed to mess around with files that are owned by another package
<LaserJock> as far as LTSP goes
<alkisg> E.g. if the Edubuntu NFS server package wanted to add some *entries* to /etc/exports, how would it do that?
<LaserJock> can a script be called to update it for you?
<alkisg> Yes, of course, a postinst script, but is that an acceptable method?
<LaserJock> no, I mean
<LaserJock> can you run some script with an argument that does the updating
<alkisg> I'm not sure I understand what you're saying... "you run" => me the user, or me the installation task?
<LaserJock> whoever
<LaserJock> ok, here's the way you get around the config file ownership
<LaserJock> the package that owns the file provides a script to update the file
<LaserJock> then other packages run that script in postinst with whatever values they want
<LaserJock> for instance
<LaserJock> /etc/passwd
<LaserJock> we don't directly edit it
<LaserJock> we run adduser and it does it for us
<LaserJock> so it's perfectly find to run adduser in a postinst
<LaserJock> *fine
<alkisg> Here's another example, to make it more clear: if the ltsp installation package modified /etc/dhcpd/dhcp.conf, then when the dhcp3-server package was upgraded, the user would be prompted "do you want to install the new package maintainer version..." etc...
<alkisg> So if we go ahead and modify files that belong to other packages, the user will be prompted for things he didn't manually edit himself
<LaserJock> right
<alkisg> Are we allowed to do that as part of a postinst script?
<jbicha> will ShipIt be sending out Edubunu DVDs after Karmic is released?
<LaserJock> jbicha: nope
<jbicha> so I can take that link off the wiki, right?
<LaserJock> alkisg: well, what we'd want to do is have some script in dhcp3-server that we could run to update /etc/dhcpd/dhcp.conf
<LaserJock> jbicha: yep
<LaserJock> all of this config file stuff can be handled, it's just a matter of how much work it would be "upstream"
<sbalneav> OK, NFS can be handled with the "exportfs" utility, which allows us to add exports withoud modifying the file.
<sbalneav> however, LDAP's a problem.
<sbalneav> there's no "update-ldap-config" program that allows us to make the mods to the ldap programs.
<LaserJock> right
<sbalneav> sorry, ldap conf files.
<LaserJock> so we'd want to coordinate with the Server team
<LaserJock> and see if one could be added or how they'd recommend we proceed
<LaserJock> the idea here is that the package that owns the file should know what's going on with it's file
<LaserJock> also note that it's been a while since I read Policy about the config file thing
<LaserJock> there could be some things I'm forgetting
<alkisg> Even if the same package modified its configuration file, wouldn't the user still be prompted on upgrade?
<LaserJock> depends
<LaserJock> we'd need to look at the details I think
<LaserJock> not all config files are Debian config files :-)
<alkisg> Right
<LaserJock> but it *is* possible for other packages to change the configuration
<LaserJock> apache for example
<LaserJock> and many others
<LaserJock> but often it requires modification to the original package, which is why coordination with the team that takes care of that package is needed
 * alkisg is sorry but he has to leave to get his kids to a cartoon lesson :-/ Thanks a lot guys, that seemed to be just in the right direction for me..
<jbicha> I hate this MoinMoin wiki thing, I think MediaWiki's easier
<sbalneav> Well, we've got what we've got.
<LaserJock> I go back and forth on the wikis
<LaserJock> I'm more used to Moin so I find it easier
<LaserJock> I think it's also more secure
<LaserJock> but MediaWiki seems faster and more people know it
<jbicha> for instance if I wanted to create a draftpage for feedback before changing a page, I'd have to upload all of the images all over again
<alkisg> Yeah mediawiki has a lot more devs behind it that support it...
<LaserJock> I think the only thing I like better is that you can edit particular sections
<jbicha> here's a reorganization of the main wikipage I was working on http://imagebin.org/67787
<jbicha> can I just make changes or do I need to get approval first?
<LaserJock> jbicha: I'm taking a look
<LaserJock> jbicha: under community what is the "Volunteer" link for?
<LaserJock> Volunteers rather
<jbicha> for people who aren't official Edubuntu Members yet
<jbicha> a place for people to show what they're working on
<LaserJock> I'd tend to favor ditching the "Volunteers" and putting that in "Teams" maybe
<jbicha> that could work if we have teams
<LaserJock> it just  makes it look like there are Volunteers and non-Volunteers (i.e. Members, Edubuntu Council, etc.)
<Lns> ugh..ubuntu wiki is dead slow
<LaserJock> and everybody is a volunteer
<jbicha> that would be less confusing with the other use of Volunteer on that page
<jbicha> ok
<LaserJock> so I think it's maybe a not great distinction
<LaserJock> if we wanted a page like that I think Contributors would maybe be a better wording
<LaserJock> but it seems like people would show off what they're working on on their individual wiki pages and on the relevant team pages
<jbicha> encourage teamwork
<LaserJock> I kind of like using Volunteer in in the 3rd column
<LaserJock> I would maybe change ReportBugs to just Bugs
<LaserJock> we could discuss both reporting and triaging
<LaserJock> Suggest is great, we can link that to brainstorm
<LaserJock> under Help I think the Cookbook is dead, we probably don't want to link to that
<jbicha> it's a little funny though, things you can do to help out, you can develop, document, or bug the developers
<LaserJock> About looks great too
<LaserJock> jbicha: what about Support under Volunteer?
<LaserJock> jbicha: we could have places that people can help give user support
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if that would sort of overlap with Campaign or not
<jbicha> campaigning and supporting are different
<LaserJock> maybe "Help" should be "Get Help"
<LaserJock> as Help could also mean "help out Edubuntu"
<LaserJock> so maybe be firm with "this is where you go to get help"
<jbicha> what would supporting by volunteering look like?
<sbalneav> Cookbook --> Handbook
<jbicha> is handbook the same thing as your DocBook work?
<LaserJock> jbicha: well, I think it would be good to have people who volunteer to help out with this channel and the edubuntu-users list giving help to people
<LaserJock> jbicha: and I want to recognize people who are already doing a stand-up job doing that
<jbicha> that's good
<LaserJock> I want to say that it is a legitimate and worthwhile form of contribution to Edubuntu
<LaserJock> so something like "Hey, volunteer in our support team by trying to answer email questions within 24hrs"
<LaserJock> or maybe we can have a list of volunteers who are willing to take questions on particular subjects
<LaserJock> who's a good person to talk to about internationalization, LTSP fat clients, LDAP, edu apps, etc.
<jbicha> updated version: http://imagebin.org/67797
<LaserJock> jbicha: hmm, I just noticed something
<LaserJock> jbicha: we have the column headers as links
<LaserJock> I wonder if we really want that
<LaserJock> it seems to me as if we're listing underneath the headings the actual entry points we want people to go to
<jbicha> that's how it used to be but it's probably not that useful
<LaserJock> jbicha: looks great though
<LaserJock> jbicha: you ready to make that "live"?
<jbicha> sure
<LaserJock> awesome
<jbicha> done, now I just have to fix all the new broken links https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> I'm working up the edubuntu-docs upload
<LaserJock> and then I guess I'll be working on the wiki mostly
<LaserJock> jbicha: are you planning on creating all new pages for all those links?
<LaserJock> it might be better to "repurpose" existing pages or as a first step link to them
<jbicha> I've already moved a couple pages
<jbicha> existing pages are a good headstart
<LaserJock> we need to be a bit careful about moving pages around
<LaserJock> especially if the existing pages have had external links to them
<LaserJock> jbicha: why are you using Document instead of Documentation?
<jbicha> because I liked verbs
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I understand where you're coming from on that
<LaserJock> but it's a bit of a gratuitous move
<alkisg> (it also points to a non-existing location, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%5CDocument)
<alkisg> (I mean the backslash there)
<jbicha> ok, Documentation is probably a better term, but what if I pipe it with Document so the Volunteer verbs match
<LaserJock> jbicha: sure
<Lns>  For anyone interested, I just created a howto on creating shared Gnome desktops for users: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/SharedDesktops - any input appreciated
<LaserJock> jbicha: we generally don't recommend just mass moving wiki pages, especially without much discussion
<LaserJock> jbicha: are you just moving things to be inline with the front page?
<jbicha> yes, but I could slow down
<LaserJock> jbicha: why don't we just link FAQ to the help.ubuntu.com page
<LaserJock> jbicha: we don't need to have a separate copy I don't think
<jbicha> I'm confused by the 2 wikis
<LaserJock> jbicha: ultimately I don't think anything under Get Help should be on wiki.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com is for development purposes
<LaserJock> to help developer and contributors organize themselves, etc.
<LaserJock> a place to put feature specifications, task lists, organize teams, etc.
<LaserJock> help.ubuntu.com/community is specifically  just about end-user documentation, help, and support
<LaserJock> so FAQ and Guides should maybe point to help.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> and Contact and Get Support should link to pages on edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> that way we don't have to maintain multiple copies of things
<jbicha> ok, I'll redirect those
<LaserJock> you don't need to redirect
<LaserJock> just link
<LaserJock> or maybe that's what you meant
<jbicha> the DownloadRedirect was a redirect so I thought that was how it was supposed to be done
<jbicha> but direct link makes more sense
<jbicha> a lot of the things under Volunteer are duplicated by the various Teams
<LaserJock> jbicha: well, that's a good thing
<LaserJock> but I think perhaps we should maybe do things a bit differently
<LaserJock> the Edubuntu/Teams page is done using includes
<LaserJock> so you have to create a wiki page for each team, and then it's all pulled in by the Teams page
<LaserJock> I think it would work better to have a single Teams page that talks about the relevant teams
<LaserJock> and then have the Volunteer pages as the concrete "this is how to get involved and contribute" pages
<LaserJock> or I suppose we could keep the includes (it seems a tad messy to me) but we shouldn't have that many pages
<LaserJock> it seems like it would be easier to just edit the one page than to mess with a whole sub-hierarchy of them
<jbicha> the Teams page could be a short description of the various teams on 1 page
<jbicha> & the Volunteer pages be the actual pages with what's being worked on now, what help is needed, and future goals ?
<LaserJock> basically
<jbicha> why were all the pages created with a Edubuntu/WikiSite/ prefix? isn't the WikiSite redundant?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> those come from your "predecessor"
<jbicha> is he gone for good?
<LaserJock> there was a guy who was working on a wiki cleanup the last couple months
<jbicha> I read through last month's mailing list earlier
<LaserJock> and what he was going to do I believe is move everything into Edubuntu/WikiSite/ , get everything arranged, and then go back and remove the /WikiSite/ part
<LaserJock> well, he said he's gone for good
<LaserJock> I hope he comes back at some point
<LaserJock> there are a few useful pages in /WikiSite/
<LaserJock> I was hoping we could use it to put stuff that can be used in other wiki pages
<LaserJock> like images and headers
<LaserJock> and you could put a SiteMap there too for instance
<jbicha> thanks for the help; I believe I'm done for today
<LaserJock> jbicha: thanks for the contribution
#edubuntu 2009-10-15
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> sbalneav: around still?
<sbalneav> I surely am
<sbalneav> Want me on pidgin?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: no, that's fine
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I need a script
<sbalneav> Whatcha need?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: just something that will s/foo/bar/ in all the files in a directory (that has several directories)
<sbalneav> Recursive find and replace?
<LaserJock> yep
<sbalneav> That should be a one-liner.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: also look what I did this evening: http://paste.ubuntu.com/293624/
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I know, but .... I'm a chemist
<sbalneav> Holy crap
<sbalneav> lemme just test, but it should be:
<sbalneav> find . -exec sed -i -e 's/foo/bar/g' {} \;
<sbalneav> but lemme test that.
<sbalneav> find . -type f -exec sed -i -e 's/bar/hhhhh/g' {} \;
<sbalneav> to explain:
<sbalneav> find, in the current directory (.) recursively, all regular files (-type f) and execute on them the command "sed -i (edit file in place) -e (expression) " on the file you found ({}) and \; terminates the find.
<sbalneav> howzzat?
<LaserJock> ahh
<LaserJock> I was close
<LaserJock> I missed the -i and -e on sed
<sbalneav> Just in case you MIGHT want to take a backup of all the files in the hierarchy.
<LaserJock> I pretty much had the find part ok
<sbalneav> 'cuz you can never have enough backups.
<sbalneav> So, that's all the wiki pages you've touched tonight?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: not hardly
<LaserJock> sbalneav: that's the list of wiki pages we have
<LaserJock> somewhat organized
<sbalneav> Ah
<sbalneav> Well, thats great.
<sbalneav> I could start poking about.
<sbalneav> Nah.
<sbalneav> My time's better spent packaging.
<sbalneav> and bug fixing
<sbalneav> and getting the ldap tools written.
<LaserJock> I did delete a bunch of pages tonight
<LaserJock> woot \o/
<LaserJock> the DVD works again
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: should i download the latest?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: yes!
<jsgotangco> okay
<daya> ogra, hi just a quick question, for ltsp shall I install alternate cd (9.04) only for both desktop ver and it
<daya> I mean do I need to install desktop ver and then alternate cd or only alternate cd
<alkisg_work> daya: only the alternate
<alkisg_work> Press F4 when it starts and select "install an ltsp server"
<daya> alkisg_work, ok thanks a lot
<alkisg_work> stgraber: Hello! I'm on a "free day" on the school lab, so I got much time to experiment. For the italc bug (didn't try gdb yet): on most clients I'm getting "<unknown>: Fatal IO error 14 (Bad address) on X server :0.0" which doesn't help much, but on one particular client I got a more specific "*** glibc detected *** ica: corrupted double-linked list: 0x0a3abe30 ***" bug: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/293711/
<alkisg_work> I tried running `gdb ica` on one client, and after 1 minute of demo mode it crashed with the same "Fatal IO" error, but gdb didn't report any additional info except for a [Thread xxx exited].
<alkisg_work> !italc-client
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about italc-client
<alkisg_work> !info italc-client
<ubottu> italc-client (source: italc): Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers. In component main, is optional. Version 1:1.0.9.1-0ubuntu9 (jaunty), package size 498 kB, installed size 1268 kB
 * alkisg_work downloads the italc .ddeb to try to get a usable backtrace...
 * alkisg_work sees that running the previous version of the program with gdb made the problem disappear! Arghhh :(
<sbalneav> Morning LaserJock
<LaserJock> morning sbalneav
<LaserJock> I managed to upload edubuntu-docs last night
<LaserJock> hopefully that is the last upload we need for Karmic
<sbalneav> ok
<LaserJock> but it looks like we're missing some essential pieces on the DVD
<LaserJock> no LTSP and no edubuntu-desktop tasks in tasksel :(
<alkisg> no LTSP is indeed a big loss
<jbicha> good morning
<jbicha> finally got the new DVD downloaded, I had trouble with zsync earlier and had to use rsync
<sbalneav> LaserJock: That just a bug we can patch, or a larger issue?
<LaserJock> it's just a seed issue
<LaserJock> I need to figure out what the magic incantation is to get it back on :-)
<LaserJock> for a task to show up all the packages needed for the task must be included
<LaserJock> so I must have cut out something they needed
<LaserJock> it shouldn't require an upload
<LaserJock> just a seed change and rebuild of the .iso
<sbalneav> I'm just chatting now with some folks in debian-edu about ldap stuff, and how they handle pre-conf of ldap.
<LaserJock> ah, excellent
<sbalneav> Here's what I'd like to accomplish: maybe someone (LaserJock) can tell me if this is possible.
<sbalneav> package called edubuntu-ldap-conf
<sbalneav> pre-depends on slapd
<sbalneav> somehow manages to pre-seed some of the debconf questions that the slapd package asks
<sbalneav> is that possible?
<alkisg> Wouldn't that be "post-depends"?
<alkisg> (I don't know if such a thing exists...)
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it'd have to be pre-depends
<LaserJock> but even then I don't know if you can pre-seed debconf like that
<sbalneav> eurgh
<sbalneav> slapd asks lots of nasty questions
<sbalneav> like
<LaserJock> well, we can preseed on install
<sbalneav> "What do you want to use for your back end database? HDB or DBD?"
<LaserJock> that's why I like having a DVD
<alkisg> How about this one: pre-depends "sbalneav's-slapd-helper", and depends "slapd" => this way wouldn't the helper run before the slapd, and get a chance to seed it?
<LaserJock> we lost a lot of flexibility
<sbalneav> Can task-sel's preseed?
<LaserJock> not sure, I don't think so though
<LaserJock> but I know you can preseed in the text-based installer
<LaserJock> stgraber: ping
<LaserJock> darn it, I think I'm going to have to make the DVD huge again
<sbalneav> Well, define huge? :) less than 4.7 gigs I hope :)
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> but maybe adding another GB
<LaserJock> right now you can't install edubuntu-desktop off of the text-based installer
<LaserJock> also, I've narrowed down the included languages to like the top 5 or so
<sbalneav> We don't have enough room for all of 'em?
<LaserJock> we could just not have edubuntu-desktop installable via d-i
<LaserJock> well, technically yeah
<LaserJock> but I'm afraid if we load up the DVD the first round 1) it doesn't leave a lot of room for future expansion and 2) might scare off a lot of people with a huge download just to try it out
<LaserJock> I just add on greek and finnish
<alkisg> :)
<alkisg> LaserJock: how much MB do the additional languages "cost"?
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure that out
<ogra> LaserJock, pitti has a table with that
<ogra> language by size
<LaserJock> ogra: is it on people.canonical.com you think?
<ogra> yes, but i dont know the exact url
<jbicha> LaserJock: it looks like ltsp-server-standalone is part of edubuntu-server because it's being installed right now on my text-based install
<LaserJock> jbicha: hmm, it should be
<jbicha> but I thought you said earlier it wasn't
<LaserJock> sorry
<LaserJock> *shouldn't be
 * LaserJock is doing a million things and his typing is suffering
<LaserJock> so it looks like the languages run something like 10-20MB/language
<LaserJock> there are a total of 135 language
<LaserJock> so yeah, including all of them will be ~ 1GB
<jbicha> well we don't need 135 languages by default
<LaserJock> jbicha: right, but the question is what ones do we need
<LaserJock> I have a list of like the top 10 most spoken languages
<alkisg> Well if you could get your hands on the previous edubuntu download stats...
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> ok, well, that's the lang pack issue
<LaserJock> edubuntu-desktop doesn't show up because the edubuntu-desktop.deb isn't on the DVD
<LaserJock> the question is if we want to have it possible for people to install Edubuntu standalone in the text-based installer
<alkisg> Is a text-based installer necessary?
<stgraber> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> stgraber: do you know if there is supposed to be a LTSP task?
<LaserJock> in tasksel?
<LaserJock> alkisg: it is for anything other than Edubuntu standalone
<jbicha> alkisg: if the graphics card is not out-of-the-box supported by Ubuntu, then yes; for instance I need to use the alternate Ubuntu Karmic CD for most of my home computers
<LaserJock> alkisg: but it could also be useful for people doing RAID/LVM or low memory, or yeah, graphics card problems
<alkisg> jbicha: doesn't the "safe graphics mode" work for you?
<LaserJock> it could be useful but I'm wondering if it's worth an extra ~500MB
<jbicha> no, it did in Jaunty but xforcevesa seems broken for me on Karmic
<jbicha> I've tried complaining about it but haven't got any feedback
<alkisg> LaserJock, "it is for anything other than Edubuntu standalone" ==> what do you mean by that?
<LaserJock> alkisg: I mean that an Edubuntu "workstation" (i.e. no server bits, just edu apps) can be installed via the live part of the DVD
<LaserJock> nothing else, like LTSP, Edubuntu Server, etc. can be installed that way, only via the text-based installer
<alkisg> LTSP is too big to be contained in the dvd - except if someone packages the chroot
<ogra> alkisg, the live installer only copies the squashfs to the target device
<alkisg> ogra, sure, but couldn't the CD also contain some packages outside of the squashfs image?
<ogra> if you would want different flavours you would need a full squashfs setup for each of them
<LaserJock> alkisg: LTSP fits fine on the DVD
<ogra> alkisg, for ltsp you could work out a way to hook the udeb scripts into the live installer and make it build the chroot/image at the end of the install from CD
<LaserJock> but not as a live installation currently
<alkisg> ogra, it would still need to download 200 Mb from the internet
<ogra> it simply requires someone to write the code :)
<ogra> no, it wouldnt
<ogra> since you have all packages on DVD already
<alkisg> What I'm saying is that do we need those packages?
<ogra> it will indeed only work in that setup
<LaserJock> ogra: we wouldn't have then on the squashfs though would we?
<ogra> LaserJock, nope, but ubiquity can use hook scripts
<alkisg> Do we really need a text installer? Even if it costs 500 mb?
<ogra> you can install additional stuff to the squashfs, but you need to explicitly code that
<LaserJock> well, wait
<ogra> alkisg, ??
<ogra> alkisg, i think you understand the design wrong :)
<alkisg> OK /me will stop talking, finish downloading the dvd, and talk again later :)
<ogra> what costs you extra 500MB is the live installer :)
<LaserJock> what's costing 500MB would be if we want to have edubuntu-desktop to be installable *both* from the Live part and the text-based part
<LaserJock> i.e. you can install it from either installer
<ogra> you need to
<ogra> else ltsp wont work
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> ltsp just works on ubuntu-desktop
<LaserJock> right?
<ogra> well, yes, but then you dont have an edubuntu ltsp server
<LaserJock> I'm saying if we don't put edubuntu-desktop on that we don't have to have the KDE stuff, gcompris, etc.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so I'm wondering how necessarily is it that it be an "Edubuntu" LTSP server
<jbicha> moodle doesn't work right if I select mysql-server
<LaserJock> darn it
<LaserJock> stupid moodle
<ogra> so you have no text based workstation install anymore (like it used to be) ?
<LaserJock> I hate that thing
<LaserJock> ogra: right now no
<ogra> yeah, moodle is a pain
<LaserJock> ogra: I sort of accidentally dropped edubuntu-desktop from the seed
<ogra> ah
<jbicha> I presume it works if I select the default postgresql
<LaserJock> so I'm wondering if I should put it back in
<ogra> if you have the space
<LaserJock> jbicha: I doubt it
<LaserJock> ogra: well, I have 4.2GB :-)
<ogra> i think it works better with pgsql
<LaserJock> ogra: I just don't like making everybody download that much
<ogra> i know moquist put some effort into getting the default work
<LaserJock> we're going from a 300 MB download (well, really 700+300MB)
<ogra> so pgsql might work where mysql doesnt
<jbicha> moodle allows me to pick mysql or postgre but doesn't check to see if mysql was installed first
<LaserJock> yeah, but something with pgsql got messed up
<ogra> ah
<LaserJock> at least people have reported that it no longer works
<ogra> well, my info is two years old :)
<LaserJock> I think the moodle part might be ok
<LaserJock> but something with pgsql has changed
<ogra> not completely
<ogra> it should have a pre-depends
<ogra> but then you have to select a DB server and hardcode it
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> "ok" as in, it was working if you selected pgsql
<ogra> which probably breaks existing setups with mysql
<ogra> damned choice in linux :P
<LaserJock> I really should make edubuntu-server dep on LTSP and edubuntu-desktop
<LaserJock> and drop moodle until we figure out how to make it work right
<ogra> ++
<ogra> better than to ship something broken
<LaserJock> especially since it comes up in the task list
<ogra> and kick alkisg's butt for lucid so he ports ltsp-client-builder.udeb to ubiquity ;)
<jbicha> it's too bad schooltool doesn't work Karmic's new zope yet either
<alkisg> Trying to understand, take #2: the dvd contains a live image *and* some .deb files. The live image contains approximately what's gonna be installed in a workstation. The *.deb files could contain only the added features for a server installation, i.e. apache, moodle etc. On the other hand, LTSP needs a full set of packages in order to be installed. Why would we put those as *.deb files?
<alkisg> ogra: right! :)
<ogra> alkisg, because the build system does only support that atm
<ogra> as well as the installers
<jbicha> and it's not possible for the text-installer to apply the live image if we want to install "edubuntu-desktop"?
<ogra> right
<ogra> they work completely differently
<alkisg> So we keep all those packages for the case that someone wants to use the text installer? Couldn't we just tell that guy to use plain ubuntu and install edubuntu-desktop later on? :D
<ogra> the text installer gives you biggest flexibility ... you surely have 100s of different install variants with it ... the live installer only supports a single way of installation
<alkisg> Sure, but that's what edubuntu is about: LESS options :D
<ogra> alkisg, no, you keep all these packages for any other install than live
<alkisg> (=to make it easier for teachers)
<ogra> the live install (from a tech POV) is the actual wart here ... not the text install
<alkisg> ogra: ok, try to see it from the teacher POV, who isn't really interested about the text installer...
<alkisg> I.e. if he sees xforcevesa problems, he'll call the tech
<alkisg> The tech may as well use the standard ubuntu cd/dvd, and install edubuntu-desktop later on
<ogra>  alkisg so teachers are not intrested in anything but edubuntu dekstops ?
<ogra> i doubt that
<alkisg> So why keep the text installer in the edubuntu dvd? (from the teacher POV)
<ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ grep -c ^Task /usr/share/tasksel/ubuntu-tasks.desc
<ogra> 46
<ogra> the text installer offers 46 preselected install variants plus any you can imagine if you intevene manually
<ogra> the live installer offers exactly one
<alkisg> Sure. As an sysadmin, I totally agree with you
<alkisg> As a teacher, I don't understand what are you saying
<sbalneav> Personally, I'd prefer to see us ditch the graphical installer, and go purely with an alternative install disk.
<alkisg> :)
<ogra> alkisg, *you* were the one pushing for LTSP installs from the edubuntu media
<alkisg> ogra: sure, from within ubuquity
<alkisg> Not from a text installer...
<sbalneav> that way, people can use the dvd for ltsp installs.
<ogra> if you think it's to compilcated for teahers, you should consider dropping it
<ogra> alkisg, so where is the port of ltsp-client-builder to ubiquity ? :P
<alkisg> Right! Now we're talking... :D
<ogra> why didnt you port it yet
<ogra> slacker  !!!
<ogra> :P
<alkisg> Because I'm stilll struggling with the ldap stuff, and waiting for sbalneav to give me his divine click-and-have-ldap-ready packages..
<ogra> i think it's a good target to support it in lucid ..., i'm happy to give a hand with it
<ogra> for karmic i think its simply over now
<ogra> we're in final freeze
<alkisg> ogra, well, whenever you got some time, I'd like your advice on how to do that
<ogra> nothing but bugs marked critical will be touched anymore
<ogra> alkisg, look at flash-kernel, it uses an udeb thats been originally written for the text installer ...
<alkisg> E.g. me, highvoltage and LaserJock exchanged some thoughts about it, but don't have enough experience to select one method over the other...
<ogra> this udeb (or it's postinst) is used by ubiquity
<ogra> you can use ltsp-client-builder the same way
<alkisg> OK, I'll have a look into that and try to see if we can have something for lucid
<sbalneav> alkisg: what, are you expecting me to do this NOW? I was expecting to hopefully have something for 10.04
<alkisg> sbalneav: nah, just joking man :)
<alkisg> Take your time
<sbalneav> Whew.
 * alkisg wants to look at the virtual-users thing first
<alkisg> I think it'll be even better than ldap/nfs
<sbalneav> Remind me.  What virtual users thing?
<alkisg> Hmmm I don't gonna spoil the conversation with my silly thoughts... ok, here it goes:
<alkisg> Usually more than one students sit on every PC. This makes it difficult to manage user accounts
<alkisg> E.g. I name an account 'name1name2' from the names of the 2 students sitting on 1 pc
<alkisg> Then, in the middle of the year, those 2 students take a fight, and don't want to sit together anymore
<alkisg> I have to change the username, the path etc
<alkisg> Then they always forget their passwords
<alkisg> So "normal" user accounts don't mean much to teachers with multiple students per pc
<alkisg> I thought this: what if only 1 user account existed per pc? named "user"?
<alkisg> ...and all the home folders were "under" the teacher's "Documents"?
<alkisg> ...and were mounted with sshfs on the clients?
<alkisg> This way I could even move exercises around not concerning myself with ACLs etc,
<alkisg> All the users would have /home/user as their home path making settings migration easier,
<sbalneav> 200 megs of child porn show up under the home dir "user" on one of the machines.  Which of the 6 kids who log in on that machine did it?
<alkisg> (that also helps with wine...)
<sbalneav> One person, one account.
<alkisg> All the student PCs have gdm set to autologon
<sbalneav> Bad idea.
<sbalneav> have them log in.
<alkisg> The teacher preselects which class he wants to have
<alkisg> So pc1/home/user maps to 'name1' with sshfs
<alkisg> pc2/home/user maps to 'name2'
<alkisg> When the class finishes, the teacher selects another set of users to autologon
<alkisg> so pc1/home/user now maps to 'name15'
<sbalneav> That's a HUGE change to how unix normally works.
<alkisg> Right
<sbalneav> you will run into MULTIPLE problems with many programs not liking that behaviour.
<alkisg> Why? All that program will see is ONE user, with his path at /home/usr
<alkisg> user
<sbalneav> If you'd like to implement yourself that personally on your site, be my guest.
<alkisg> If they can work with sshfs, they won't see any other users...
<alkisg> Remember some people that come up to #ltsp and were asking to logon all the clients with the same user account?
<sbalneav> But it's not going to be anything that I'm going to spend one iota of time on for edubuntu.
<alkisg> Right
<sbalneav> And we tell them: use multiple accounts.  The way you should.
<alkisg> I'm not saying that this should be something for #edubuntu
<alkisg> But I think it'll make things a lot easier for schools here in Greece, and maybe for those other people that asked the same thing in #ltsp
<alkisg> Sure, until it's tried and working for several years, I'm not going to suggest to put such a thing upstream...
<sbalneav> I say this with all respect and niceness, but it's a stupid idea.  drop it.  If you have ANY sort of trouble, there's NO way you're going to be able to PROVE who did what when.
<sbalneav> Trust me: I work in the legal field.
<alkisg> Why are you saying that? Each user still has his own home dir
<alkisg> It's just symlinked to /home/user before the user logs in
<sbalneav> but they *haven't authenticated themselves*
<sbalneav> Like I say, porn shows up.  Kid says "I didn't do it.  Prove I did"
<sbalneav> you cant.
<alkisg> Sure i can
<sbalneav> How?
<alkisg> It's in his home folder
<alkisg> in .mozilla
<sbalneav> Yeah?  Who selected the home folder for him?
<alkisg> You mean the act of entering a password?
<sbalneav> You said the teacher selects the class, right?
<alkisg> Yes, and has written down the names of the users and where they sit
<alkisg> So he knows that students 1, 2 and 3 sit on PC1
<sbalneav> And teachers *NEVER EVER EVER* make mistakes, and select the WRONG class, right?
<sbalneav> Won't stand up in a court of law.
<sbalneav> Won't even stand up to an angry parent.
<alkisg> But 2 or 3 students are sitting on the same PC, you can't prove which of them started the porn thing
<alkisg> You've already lost your case, even with normal user accounts
<sbalneav> Sure you can.
<sbalneav> If they log in AS THEMSELVES
<sbalneav> That's why you HAVE to have 1 login per student, and force them to log in.
<alkisg> They can't; the 2 or 3 of them need to have a shared account
<sbalneav> Why?
<alkisg> Because we only have 10 PCs for 20 students
<alkisg> (or for 30 students)
<alkisg> You can't tell them "you sit and logon, and the others just watch"
<sbalneav> So, what, one types, one moves the mouse, and one watches the screen?
<alkisg> Yes, and after 10 minutes they switch
<alkisg> They even get a common degree (more or less)
<sbalneav> Why can't one use it for 10 minutes, switch to another user, they use it for 10 minutes, etc?
<alkisg> Because you'd loose all the time with user switching
<alkisg> Imagine:
<alkisg> Guys we start an exercise with gimp
<alkisg> First student draws 1/3 of the image. Saves, logs off
<alkisg> Second student logs on. Copies the exercise from the first student. Draws another 3rd, saves, logs off
<alkisg> Third students logs on... etc
<sbalneav> Oh, please, logging out and in takes less than 30 seconds!
<sbalneav> and you put the image in a shared area.
<sbalneav> they don't HAVE to copy it around.
<alkisg> Tell a 10 y.o. student to copy a file from another home folder :)
<sbalneav> I've had shared folders for YEARS.
<alkisg> For kids < 10 y.o., the teacher put their password himself
<alkisg> Do that for 30 students...
 * sbalneav shrugs
<sbalneav> Like I say, you've got absolutely NO way to say who's done what.
<sbalneav> None.
<alkisg> Sure I have... one of those 3 guys :) That's the best I can do.
<alkisg> sbalneav: I've tried to have seperate accounts per students. It just isn't feasible in my situation...
<sbalneav> alkisg: "one of those 3 guys" don't stand up in court.
<sbalneav> and trust me
<sbalneav> sooner or later, you're going to HAVE to narrow it down to "one of those 3 guys"
<sbalneav> and since you CANT
<sbalneav> it means you've got nothing :)
<sbalneav> Just sayin' is all :)
<alkisg> sbalneav: I've been burned by the law before for silly beurocracy things, I totally share your concern. It's just isn't possible.
<LaserJock> can I interject some reality?
<sbalneav> OK, well, that's fine, so long as you go into it with eyes open
<LaserJock> we still haven't decided what to do for karmic
<alkisg> sbalneav: currently, about 90% of greek teachers have one user per pc. Just one user per pc, not one user per class per pc. :)
 * sbalneav scrolls back
 * alkisg stops talking :)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Which, the ltsp tasksel we talking here?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> 1) do we ship edubuntu-desktop in the text-based installer?
<sbalneav> I'd say yes, if possible.
<sbalneav> As I preferr the text based installer.
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> 2) should we ship edubuntu-server (currently a broken moodle installer)?
<stgraber> LaserJock: sorry for the delay
<stgraber> LaserJock: it's not a task, it's a d-i component that you use by passing a custom .seed file
<stgraber> going for some food, later all
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> this is confusing
<jbicha> there's something ironic about children downloading child porn though
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Hmm, if moodle's broken...
<LaserJock> I swear there was a tasksel item for it
<sbalneav> can we just dump moodle from edubuntu-server until we get it fixed?
<alkisg> jbicha: lol! :D
<LaserJock> sbalneav: well, all edubuntu-server is right now is a moodle installer
<jbicha> & an LTSP server installer, right?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> edubuntu-server shouldn't do anything with LTSP
<jbicha> then how'd it get on my computer?
<LaserJock> I don't know
<jbicha> text install: I only selected edubuntu-server openssh-server and Ubuntu Desktop
<ogra> jbicha, ise f4
<LaserJock> man I hate this seed stuff
<ogra> *use
<LaserJock> f4 doesn't have any LTSP option for us
<ogra> you select an edubuntu-server and use F4 to switch on the LTSP installation
<ogra> oh
<ogra> why is that ?
<LaserJock> I have no idea
<LaserJock> my guess is that maybe it's using an outdated file somewhere in the build script
<ogra> well, seems it wasnt properly switched to the DVD
<LaserJock> ok
<ogra> it needs some preseed values and an entry in gfxboot
<LaserJock> so what *should* happen
<ogra> it should show you "Install an LTSP Server" in the F4 menu
<LaserJock> is you hit F4 select LTSP, then go to the text-based installer
<ogra> and that applies to *all* text based installs
<LaserJock> and in there get the tasksel thing to fine-tune the non-LTSP components?
<ogra> well, you get dropped into tasksel anyway in the text installer
<ogra> the F4 option just triggers that the ltep env gets build at some point during install
<ogra> *ltsp
<LaserJock> so maybe it's just automatic on our DVD?
<LaserJock> we already have it preseeded
<alkisg> ogra, so if we press "Esc" on the installer to see the installer menu, we'd see the ltsp option on the edubuntu dvd?>:o=-Ohhsut47htrtfg
<alkisg> g66yyt
<alkisg> uu
<alkisg> yhyty
<alkisg> tytggyhuhugyydssazrefgrefgh;'p;kll'lk
<alkisg> 4dasrdgdf4t4r
<alkisg> awfd54tg
<alkisg> er64t5gyhm
<alkisg> (sorry my kid got the keyboard and I was away :))
 * ogra tries severeal decipher mechanisms ...
<ogra> ah, kid-cypher works :)
<ogra> i dont know abour esc
<ogra> *about
<ogra> doesnt the gfxboot screen come up by default ?
<alkisg> No no I mean after that, in the d-i
<ogra> oh, esc wont do anything there
<ogra> i think you need "go back"
<alkisg> Right
<alkisg> So ltsp will be there in the list of tasks?
<ogra> and yes, there you should have an LTSP option to manually select
<ogra> which is very uncomfortable :)
<ogra> and the reason why i added the F4 option that autoselects the LTSP udeb
<LaserJock> grrr
<LaserJock> so perhaps it's the preseeds we're using
<LaserJock> ubuntu has an ltsp.preseed
<LaserJock> ubuntu has a cli, ltsp, and ubuntu preseed file
<LaserJock> edubuntu has cli, cloud, edubuntu, ubuntu server, ubuntu-server-minimal, ubuntu-server-minimalvm, and workstation
<ogra> yeah, you need the ltsp one too
<LaserJock> so should I modify the edubuntu seed to take out the ltsp bits?
<LaserJock> edubuntu preseed rather
<ogra> no, you should just add the ltsp one
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> but wouldn't that still mean that no matter what you choose you'll get LTSP?
<jbicha> so I tried moodle with postgre and I get the lovely PGSQL.5342 error which completely stops the installation
<jbicha> which is prob worse than the failed mysql attempt which doesn't tell you it is broken
<LaserJock> yeah, something's messed up
<LaserJock> ogra: so you think just dropping the ltsp.preseed in there should work?
<ogra> i think so, but it's years ago i touched that area of d-i so better confirm with someone from the installer team
<Ahmuck> http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=11197
<Ahmuck> it's a good read
<Ahmuck> Like my CEO example, these people may generate âsoftâ work products (word processing documents, spreadsheets, presentations, PDFs) that are going to be printed hardcopy, are usually not of a complex nature and/or do not need to be exchanged or originate from Windows/MS Office environments. The majority of home users fit into this category, as do high school and college students.
<jbicha> I don't think mysql is even available on the edubuntu dvd
<LaserJock> jbicha: that's entirely possible
<LaserJock> jbicha: edubuntu-server is meant to use pgsql
<jbicha> I've never used pgsql; are you supposed to setup a root password first like you do for mysql?
<Ahmuck> edubuntu-server ?
<Ahmuck> i've been here a while, but never heard of edubuntu-server
<LaserJock> jbicha: I can't remember, I think it asks fewer questions though
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: yeah, well ... you ain't missing much right now ;-)
<Ahmuck> what is it?
<Ahmuck> there are advantages/disadvantages either way.
<LaserJock> the idea was to pull together useful server software for educational institutions
<Ahmuck> any way of making it database neutral?
<ogra> thats the prob
<LaserJock> moodle, mediawiki maybe, schooltool perhaps
<ogra> it *is* database neutral
<Ahmuck> so pgsql is not used for writing?
<ogra> which causes tons of failures
<Ahmuck> as in hard writing, but simply as a storage mechanism?
<LaserJock> the only thing we actually got into Main was moodle
<Ahmuck> my understanding is that for reading, mysql is very good, and very easy to use/configure
<LaserJock> you mean for reading the database?
<Ahmuck> yes
<LaserJock> well moodle will be doing both
<LaserJock> mysql is pretty large
<LaserJock> some people consider it sort of "bloat" for the purposes of an educational server
<ogra> less bloat than oracle though :P
<Ahmuck> i think you need to consider your user base
<ogra> Ahmuck, hmm ?
<Ahmuck> i've found pgsql more complex for new users
<ogra> what has the user base to do with technical  packaging probs ?
<Ahmuck> and unless your doing a large percentage of writes, i've found mysql to be very usable
<ogra> a user will never touch any database directly
<Ahmuck> never have to configure, setup, etc.?
<LaserJock> hopefully not
<Ahmuck> ur user is not the final end user, but the instructor that is setting the @#$%# up
<ogra> the point is that moodle as it is in debian (and as we get it from them) runs on single standalone servers as wellas on 100 server clusters
<ogra> so it is highly configurable and has a ton of options
<ogra> what we attempted to do years ago when i created edubuntu-server was to have an out of the box setup that you can manage directly after install through the moodle admin interface
<ogra> no user or admin should ever touch a database
<ogra> the prob is the high configurability of the debian package here
<ogra> and to find a proper setup for edubuntu without breaking that high configurability
<ogra> so far all attempts failed
<Ahmuck> k, makes sense.
<Ahmuck> i'm back to lurking now
<ogra> an enduser/admin should just select edubuntu-server at install time and get a properly working setup
<ogra> that's been the ubuntu philosophy since the beginning ... its just not easy to achieve if you want to retain the debian flexibility
<jbicha> is "No Interface for LTSP dhcpd configuration found" a normal error because I get it every time on the text-based installer
<alkisg> That's because you don't have 2 ethernet cards... /me wishes the ltsp installer would install dnsmasq in that case ;)
<jbicha> does dnsmasq work so it doesn't require 2 ethernet cards? I've never used ltsp
<alkisg> Well there are 2 main cases with 1 card: either the ltsp server is also the dhcp server, or it isn't. dnsmasq can work in both of those cases, but mainly helps in the second case.
<highvoltage> hi
<LaserJock> hi
<jbicha> ah, I think I finally figured out how to get moodle working
<jbicha> I chose to "deny all except localhost" during installation, well it looks like apache2 was registering me as ::1 instead of 127.0.0.1
<jbicha> I created a page with the issues I've found, I don't know if you want bug reports for any of them https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/KarmicKnownIssues
<jbicha> highvoltage: you were in Bahrain once, right?
<highvoltage> jbicha: yep
<jbicha> highvoltage: I believe you're famous in our Linux group
<highvoltage> jbicha: heh! I *almost* went to a meeting of yours once, but otherwise I can't imaging why :)
<jbicha> yeah, we were expecting you
<highvoltage> well, tonight a random guy sitting next to me on a plane recognised me from planet ubuntu, so that was a bit weird.
<jbicha> next time you're in Bahrain, be sure to stop by
<highvoltage> jbicha: will do. I have some good friends there, perhaps next year
<sbalneav> Hmmm, looks like debian-edu's using cipux for handling admin tasks.
<sbalneav> http://wiki.debian.org/CipUX?action=show&redirect=DebianEdu%2FCipUX
<jbicha> looks like Bahrain gets to open next Formula 1 season, look forward to meeting you if it works out
<jbicha> what does the "unattended operation" checkbox do when setting up Moodle?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: does CipUX look useful?
<jbicha> at least part of cipux is in the Karmic repos
<chang-li> hi , can ltsp-server & edubuntu work with the xfce install?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> you might end up having to install a lot of packages, but it should work fine
<chang-li> I am install via pxe & tftpboot  xubuntu.
<chang-li> Then I guess, will install ltsp-server.
<dgroos> Good afternoon.
<chang-li> hi
<dgroos> chang-li: howdy
<dgroos> my ltsp clients can't boot :(
<chang-li> i'm not there yet. just doing a net install via tftboot of xubuntu.
<dgroos> not sure how to address this.  They seem to load an image, but then give an error just as the loading splash screen starts to show.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Looks... interesting anyway.
<sbalneav> I'll have to start playing with it.
<chang-li> dgroos: could be default video setting
<sbalneav> The debian-edu people are stoked that someone from edubuntu's in there talking to them.
<dgroos> chang-li: thanks.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: well, we've always been here :-)
<dgroos> is that something that would just change?
<dgroos> I'm thinking it might be a network setting.  After it doesn't boot successfully, it says a few things about address and gateway etc.. then:
<dgroos> Error: Connect: Connection refused
<dgroos> I don't get why it says (just a little before the previous message I just posted): rootserver: 192.168.0.77
<GJ> Look in your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file
<dgroos> GJ: thanks, I'll check it out!  what am I looking for?
<GJ> The option routers xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx should point at the server.
<GJ> I got in on this conversation late, so I'm assuming your LTSP server is not at the ip address you gave above.
<dgroos> hmmm... it points to 192.168.0.1, not the building nic, 10.51.0.199  is that right?
<GJ> Is 192.168.0.1 the address of the server on which the ltsp chroot is located?
<dgroos> well, 192.168.0.1 has always been the ip I would get on the nic pointing toward the switch which goes to my thin client lan, if that's what you mean?
<dgroos> I'd see this when I did an ifconfig, for example.
<GJ> Well, that's configured correctly then.
<GJ> I had that same message and finally got past that yesterday. Let me try to remember what I did.
<GJ> I tried so many different things to resolve the issue that I cant remember what finally fixed it.
<dgroos> :)  I've been there many times...
<dgroos> On the TC screen where the failure is occurring, it says:
<dgroos> dns0 : 192.168.0.1 (seems fine) dns1 :     0.0.0.0   domain : example.com  rootserver: 192.168.0.77   rootpath: /opt/ltsp/i386  filename :  /ltsp/i386/nbi.img   Error:  Connect:  Connection refused (this all, from the 0.0.0.0 seems strange)
<GJ> I know I removed the /opt directory and the /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp directory and then ran "sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386.
<LaserJock> phew
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I think I fixed the DVD
<LaserJock> it turns out the DVD was 1) using the old preseed file from the "good ole days" of the 2 CD installer and 2) we weren't in the list of projects to include the LTSP option
<LaserJock> I also added several more of the top used languages and greek and finnish for our friends ;-)
<sbalneav> \o/
<GJ> dgroos, is your server 32 or 64 bit?
<dgroos> 32 AFAIK
<GJ> So your chroot environment is i386 then, right? and /opt/ltsp/i386 exists?
<GJ> rather than /opt/ltsp/amd64?
<dgroos> hmmm... I just tried to reboot again (done this a few times) on the client and it got further this time, almost seemed to make it all the way but went back to the same screen :(
<dgroos> yes it does...
<GJ> what OS are you using?
<dgroos> Another part of the error message that shows up is, "target filesystem doesn't have /sbin/init.  No init found.  Try passing init-bootarg.  Does this mean anything?
<dgroos> I'm using Jaunty...
<GJ> No doubt because the volumes aren't mounting properly.
<dgroos> I see, that's what it means, yes, it says that...
<GJ> You are experiencing exactly the same situation I struggled with for 3 days.
<dgroos> seems like the strange thing is the rootserver: 192.168.0.77...
<dgroos> Had you been doing anything with iTALC?
<dgroos> Had your system been working fine for a good while?
<GJ> I just installed Jaunty on a server with a new hard drive Sunday and finally resolved the last of the LTSP issues this morning.
<GJ> No iTALC
<dgroos> Congratulations :D  It sure is great when it works!
<dgroos> I've been running successfully for almost a month in my class.
<GJ> Are there any other DHCP servers on your network? I just can't figure out why your rootserver address is wrong
<dgroos> And then this just popped up as I'm now expanding: adding another teacher and his classes.  And, his hardware.
<dgroos> When you say network, do you mean the thin client side or the building side?
<GJ> Can you ping this 192.168.0.77 address?
<dgroos> it says, ping: icmp open socket: Operation not permitted
<dgroos> not sure what that means.
<GJ> Did you ping from the server?
<dgroos> I'm ssh'ed into the server and ran it from there... but I can use NXclient and get onto the server and run from that desktop... I'll try that!
<GJ> I always kick myself for not recording every step I take to resolve issues, but I'm always in such a hurry that I dont want to "waste time" writing things down.
<dgroos> :)
<dgroos> so what does: ping: icmp open socket: Operation not permitted, mean?
<GJ> Your guess is as good as mine!
<Ahmuck> it means icmp is closed
<dgroos> Hi Ahmuck
<GJ> Did you try removing /opt and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp and rebuilding your chroot?
<GJ> Or is that working for existing clients and only the ones you just added are having problems?
<dgroos> Well, true.  for the client that had been signed on, things were working just fine.  The problem occured for a client trying to log on.
<dgroos> I haven't done this yet, I've got a lot of customization in the chroot...
<GJ> So let me get this straight. Existing client machines can connect and students can log on, but the recently added client machines have the Connection Refused error?
<dgroos> No.  what I meant is that, I was logged in to a thin client and was using it all afternoon, but found out that if one tried to sit at another TC and reboot, it wouldn't work.
<GJ> So you have no idea where a machine with an ip address of 192.168.0.77 is located?
<dgroos> ... it couldn't boot, but if it had already loaded in image it could continue to work.
<GJ> Clearly.
<dgroos> No...
<dgroos> right.
<GJ> And clearly that rootserver ip address is the culprit. Find the rogue DHCP server on your network!
<dgroos> Right.  Now would that be inside the internal LAN, my thin client LAN or would it be outside of it on the building?
<dgroos> *building side of the LAN?
<dgroos> Think I might have found it!
<GJ> Did you "sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys" to make sure the server and clients machines are on the same page, so to speak?
<jbicha> does anyone know what the "unattended operation" checkbox does when setting up Moodle?
<dgroos> :D  You were right!  "Find the rogue DHCP server on your network" The teacher next door had plugged in an old windows computer to our ltsp LAN and it was doing just that--conflicting.
<dgroos> We unplugged that computer and things worked again :)
<GJ> Great!
<dgroos> Thanks for your help in tracking this down!!!
<GJ> You're welcome!
<GJ> Now here's a question that should be easy for someone to answer for me...
<dgroos> Now I can return to my many hours of trying to debug my plone installation...  you never know when you will hit upon a solution... just gotta keep trudging on...
<GJ> I just used the Edubuntu 9.04 addon cd to install some classroom software. When I tried to add the software it went to Internet for the software rather than the cd. Now that's a problem when you're operating over a satellite connection with a limit on the amount of downstream total in a 24 hour period. Why didn't add/remove just use the cd?
<dgroos> I'll try--not sure why it did it, but I think you could go to sources and make sure that CD is checked, and maybe that the other ones are unchecked.  Should limit choices of updating to the CD.
<GJ> I'll check that. But you would think that would be the default behavior when you pop a cd into the server and select "start addon installer"
<dgroos> I'd think so.  Where are you working out of?
<GJ> especially when they call the cd the Edubuntu addon cd!
<dgroos> There's some interesting history there, though not sure of the details.
<GJ> ?
<dgroos> Where are you that you have a satellite connection?
<GJ> Apache Indian reservation in Arizona
<dgroos> cool.
<GJ> DSL is too slow here and no cable at all
<dgroos> I find it quite interesting to see where people are working/where they are at.
<GJ> satellite and t1 are the only choices
<GJ> t1 is way too expensive.
<dgroos> Indeed.
<GJ> This satellite connection is costing us more than $200 a month as it is.
<GJ> But we have to have the bandwidth
<dgroos> ouch!
<dgroos> I see the need for the CD approach.  I just checked: System/Administration/Software Sources
<dgroos> and under the first pane it shows the first 4 boxes checked (downloadable from the internet) and then the 2 boxes in the section, "Installable from CD-ROM/DVD" are unchecked.  Reversing that checking might work.
<GJ> And under the Third-Party Software tab only the Edubuntu cd is checked but it doesn't mention "addon" there at all
<dgroos> I think Edubuntu CD and addon are one and the same for Jaunty.
<GJ> Apparently. Right now I'm trying to sort through the stuff on the CD to see what might be usable here at our K-8 school.
<GJ> I'll just have to make sure any more installs do NOT access the internet.
<dgroos> I think you'll get some good opinions if you ask that question on the edubuntu-users list server though it has been asked in various ways a few times so you may want to access the archives.  Best of luck!
<dgroos> heading home, have a good evening GJ
<GJ> G'bye
#edubuntu 2009-10-16
<jbicha> anyone able to confirm bug 452622 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452622 in moodle "Moodle uses wrong config to restrict access to localhost" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452622
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: just the man I want to see
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: would you be able to make a Tues. 01:00 UTC meeting?
<jbicha> I contributed a patch for my bug, is anyone able to sponsor?
<LaserJock> jbicha: bug #?
<jbicha> bug 452622
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452622 in moodle "Moodle uses wrong config to restrict access to localhost" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452622
<LaserJock> jbicha: so if that works does moodle install ok with mysql?
<jbicha> yes, install mysql-server and php-mysql before installing moodle
<LaserJock> jbicha: but postgresql is still not working?
<jbicha> I've never used postgresql so I'm not sure why it produces the PGSL.5342 error
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if it's a similar problem
<LaserJock> did you try it after your apache fix?
<LaserJock> 5342 is apparently the port that postgresql works on
<jbicha> not yet, I could hunt around and see if I could get it to work
<jbicha> grep: /etc/postgresql///pg_hba.conf: No such file or directory
<jbicha> Your settings in /etc/postgresql///pg_hba.conf do not allow me to continue.
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: hi
<LaserJock> ah, I've seen that one before
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: let me check what time is that
<jbicha> etc/postgresql/$VERSION/$CLUSTER/pg_hba.conf
<LaserJock> jbicha: but you don't get the PGSL.5342 error?
<jbicha> I thought the errors were the same, looking...
<LaserJock> oh
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: 1UTC is just 9am here
<jsgotangco> so its workable
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: ok, I'm looking over the results from our poll
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: and that seems to be one that you'd have a chance of making
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: what time is 13:00-19:00 UTC in your TZ?
<jsgotangco> 13 is 9pm
<jsgotangco> so that's workable
<jsgotangco> 19 is 3am
<jsgotangco> i should be ok form 13 to 16
<LaserJock> ok, excellent
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: there were 4 times that looked good from the poll
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: 2 of then look to be OK for you/asia
<jsgotangco> generally if its morning in eu, its afternoon here so the difference isn't that big for us
<jsgotangco> are you in the east coast or west?
<LaserJock> east now
<jsgotangco> that's better that means our difference is just 10 hours or less
<LaserJock> jbicha: it looks like a big part of the problem is that it looks like moodle is being installed before postgresql
<jsgotangco> so its probably just a quarter before 9pm there
<LaserJock> jbicha: running dpkg --configure -a after install seems to clear some things up
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: yep
<jbicha> LaserJock: yes, installing postgresql first works for me
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> the dpkg --configure -a cleared up everything
<LaserJock> I got a seemingly fully working moodle
<jbicha> but during the text-based install, the install completely stops at that point
<LaserJock> well, it could be because the task failed
<jbicha> on the other hand, if you choose mysql, the installation won't stop even though mysql is not available in the installer
<LaserJock> jbicha: btw, you're debdiff for the localhost issue looks good
<LaserJock> jbicha: we're under Final Freeze right now which mean *every* upload has to be approved by the release team but I'll upload it if they approve it
<jbicha> that's my first patch, good thing the fix was simple
<LaserJock> jbicha: can you reupload a patch that just adds the localhost but keeps the 127.0.0.1 too
<jbicha> I believe localhost works without the explicit 127.0.0.1
<LaserJock> I know
<jbicha> I just confirmed on Jaunty which didn't have the localhost issue
<LaserJock> here's what the release manager said:
<LaserJock> I think you probably want to list both values, then?  Otherwise, you'll also be denying connections to <hostname> on systems that have dynamic IPs, which is arguably a regression?
<jbicha> do you still want me to keep the 127.0.0.1?
<LaserJock> yeah, just add the localhost
<jbicha> ok, I'm not that great at networking
<LaserJock> that way we're not removing anything, just adding
<LaserJock> neither am I
<jbicha> ok
<LaserJock> but it seems like the least possible way of having a regression
<jbicha> I uploaded the new patch
<LaserJock> jbicha: awesome, thanks
<LaserJock> sweet, new daily out
<LaserJock> and we only added 0.5GB
<sbalneav> Evening all
<jbicha> good morning
<alkisg> Good morning
<sbalneav> So, looking into CiBux, which is what Skolelinux uses for ldap user management.
<alkisg> I think the german .pdf has all the info for it... we need ogra for translation :)
<sbalneav> I was happy to see that debian-edu was glad to see an edubuntu-er (?) in there.
<alkisg> Ah, you got in contact with them?
<sbalneav> Yup, did some chatting today,
<sbalneav> LaserJock's going to answer all my packaging questions next week
<sbalneav> So, hopefully, I'll be able to start being more useful in fixing bugs.
<sbalneav> Well, I've actally fixed LOTS of bugs, but I've never known how to actually DO anything with the fixes :)
<alkisg> I couldn't understand from the docs, do they offer a "prepackaged" ldap schema?
<sbalneav> Also, I want to spend some time next week cleaning out the bug list for LTSP
<sbalneav> alkisg: yeah, they do.  But it's.... kinda non-standard :(
<alkisg> Ugh... :(
<sbalneav> I'm sure if someone explained to me all the wonderful advantages of it, I'd see the light, but for right now, it's "just one more thing to learn"
<alkisg> I can help you with the bug cleaning if you want - I've been through them and I answered the ones that didn't involve code changes, but I could propose patches for the ones that you think are worth it.
<sbalneav> Stephane will be there, so what I'd like to do is sit down with him for an hour and just bomb through them all.
<alkisg> Sure that'd be the best
<sbalneav> Figure out what's valid, and what's not.
<sbalneav> What I'd really like to do is get all the LTSP stuff put to bed early in the 10.04 cycle, so I can concentrate on handbook, ldap, and fixing bugs in edu apps.
<alkisg> Sounds like a nice plan.
<alkisg> What I'd like to do is put LTSP in ubiquity
<alkisg> ...a "[v] Install an LTSP server" somewhere in the graphical installer
 * alkisg has to leave for school, bye all
<alkisg> Hmmm there's a "Qt3 assistant" in the "Applications > Programming" menu in the karmic edubuntu dvd, which should be removed...
<alkisg> The same for Xscreensaver
<alkisg> Ah qcad depends on qt3-assistant... grrrr... The xscreensaver can be safely removed, though
<alkisg> (or just ship qcad without the docs)
<alkisg> I see 18 languages installed, but I've never heard some of them... maybe LaserJock should recheck the list...
<alkisg> Next, the text installer... I don't see the installer text in Greek (all installer translations should be there; it's there in the Ubuntu CD)
 * alkisg scratches the previous statement and blames launchpad for using old translations...
<alkisg> Yup, I see a "Build LTSP chroot" task in the d-i
<jbicha> good morning
<jbicha> is there any way that the installer can make sure postgresql or mysql are completely installed before trying to install moodle?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I think pre-depends might work
<LaserJock> but is not favorably looked upon
 * alkisg also reports that "xscreensaver" and "qt3-assistant" should probably be removed...
<ogra> not sure you can use "or" in pre-depends
<LaserJock> ogra: no, I would use a pre-depends in the edubuntu-server metapackage
<LaserJock> leaving moodle as is
<ogra> ah, yeah, that might work
<LaserJock> alkisg: currently Ubiquity doesn't seem to be removing the extra packages after install, I'm not sure if those are some that should be gone
<alkisg> LaserJock: I think qt3-assistant is a dependency of qcad-doc
<alkisg> But it really looks ugly to be in the menus
<alkisg> About xscreensaver, I don't think the ubuntu dvd has it...
<LaserJock> well, there's not a lot I can do about that
<LaserJock> hmm
<alkisg> ...and it can be safely removed, no dependencies there
<LaserJock> sure, I just don't know how it's getting on there
<LaserJock> I can see from the DVD manifest that we have xscreensaver but Ubuntu doesn't
<alkisg> About qcad-doc, I just mentioned it to give it a thought that maybe we could ship qcad without qcad-docs for now... qt3-assistant is in the "programming" menu, we don't have anything else there, and of course if someone runs it it complains about qt3-docs missing. So it seems useless
<jbicha> what about "the language support is not installed completely" that pops up after installation is complete
<alkisg> jbicha: which language?
<jbicha> almost all of them, here let me post the packages it wants to install
<jbicha> http://paste.ubuntu.com/294736
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I can't figure out how xscreensaver is getting on there
<LaserJock> ok, I figured out the screensaver thing, kinda
<LaserJock> xscreensaver-gl has a Recommends on xscreensaver|gnome-screensaver
<LaserJock> we're installing gnome-screensaver as a part of ubuntu-desktop so I don't know why it's picking it up
<LaserJock> but I think I can tell the seed to not let it on
<LaserJock> as far as qcad-doc
<LaserJock> we can also tell the seed to not include that
<alkisg> Nice
<LaserJock> the language thing I might have to dig a tad deeper
<jbicha> I believe today's DVD is still pulling in LTSP
<jbicha> LaserJock: I don't know much about how these DVDs work, but my edubuntu preseed seems to still be http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~laserjock/debian-cd/edubuntu/annotate/1503/data/karmic/preseed/edubuntu/i386/edubuntu.seed
<LaserJock> jbicha: I know, my changes haven't been pulled in yet
<LaserJock> jbicha: hopefully by the next daily they will be
<LaserJock> jbicha: did you see Edubuntu Desktop as an option in the text-based installer?
<jbicha> LaserJock: yes, it is checked by default
<LaserJock> excellent
<LaserJock> jbicha: was edubuntu-server there?
<jbicha> no
<LaserJock> great
<jbicha> if we can get it to work, I'd like to see edubuntu-server back in there
<LaserJock> perhaps rather we should hold off until Lucid
<LaserJock> even if moodle was working, all edubuntu-server does is install moodle
<LaserJock> it seems like it should install more than 1 thing to have such prominence
<jbicha> what about openssh server? that only installs 1 thing
<jbicha> LaserJock:  and everyone who tries to install moodle without first installing pgsql/mysql will have difficulties
<LaserJock> jbicha: yes, but we're at Final Freeze
<LaserJock> and you only expect that openssh server will install an openssh server
<LaserJock> edubuntu-server sounds like a lot more than 1 package
<LaserJock> rather 1 app
<LaserJock> if it ends up that edubuntu-server is "fixed" and is well tested then I wouldn't have too much of an issue putting it back in
<LaserJock> I think it's a little silly, but I wouldn't object solely on those grounds
<LaserJock> jbicha: heh, I had to get back to that part of the installer to get what you mean about OpenSSH server
<LaserJock> jbicha: I wish I could get rid of those items in the installer, but I think that'd take some real digging into the code
<LaserJock> jbicha: but you're right, there is some other pretty useless stuff in there
<jbicha> LaserJock: that's part of the alt ubuntu CD aso, I think it's pretty useful
<jbicha> *also
<LaserJock> well, I think it's maybe a bit confusing for our users
<LaserJock> "hmm, what does Mail server mean? do I want that?"
<LaserJock> "Samba, what the heck is that?"
<jbicha> LaserJock: yeah, good point
<LaserJock> of course one might argue that if you're using the text-based installer you should maybe already know or have a good guess what they mean
<jbicha> well, Ubuntu's sorta African, and Samba's the Lion King, so it sounds pretty useful to me
<jbicha> :-)
<cprofitt> LaserJock, are you here?
<LaserJock> cprofitt: yep
<cprofitt> Cool...
<cprofitt> I am being interviewed by an on-line educations magazine about open source
<cprofitt> and they want me to discuss edubuntu a bit
<LaserJock> nifty
<cprofitt> wondering if I could get some information about the project and its future plans for you...
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> cprofitt: got any particular questions in mind?
<cprofitt> will the project have a release with 9.10?
<LaserJock> cprofitt: or should I just ramble ;-)
<LaserJock> cprofitt: yes
<cprofitt> how can k-12 educators get involved with the project?
<cprofitt> is there a list of the add-on software that will be included with 9.10?
<LaserJock> cprofitt: we will be releasing a full DVD for 9.10 (a dramatic shift from previous releases)
 * cprofitt smiles
<cprofitt> nice... that will be fantastic
<LaserJock> this will be somewhat of a rough release
<jbicha> LaserJock: I created a moodle patch for bug 440098 that pre-depends on either pqsql or mysql, but how can I test-install it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440098 in moodle "Edubuntu d-i fails when using postgresql as backend" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440098
<LaserJock> cprofitt: I would call it more of a preview release
 * cprofitt nods
<LaserJock> cprofitt: what we did was take the Ubuntu base + the Edubuntu addon and start making our own DVD
<LaserJock> so there aren't a lot of new features
<cprofitt> I like the idea of doing that...
<cprofitt> I think it is a step in the right direction....
<LaserJock> but of course the existing packages have been updated
<cprofitt> about teachers getting involved... is there a way for them to do so?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> 1) test, test, test
<LaserJock> we're always in need of feedback from teachers who are actually using the software on the ground
<LaserJock> we want to know how they're using it
<LaserJock> what would make their life easier
<cprofitt> is there an LP team to join, or should they just send email to ?
<LaserJock> email is probably best
<cprofitt> k
<cprofitt> to you?
<LaserJock> either edubuntu-users or edubuntu-devel
<cprofitt> mail list...
<cprofitt> k
<LaserJock> edubuntu-devel is a friendly place
<cprofitt> as an FYI to introduce myself -- I am a Systems Administrator in a K-12
<LaserJock> I've found that teachers think you have to be an uber-coder to join a -devel list
<LaserJock> but edubuntu-devel is a great place to just throw stuff out, see what's going on, etc.
<cprofitt> and will be giving a presentation on equity in schools which will feature F/OSS and ubuntu/edubuntu
<LaserJock> excellent
<cprofitt> I will make sure teachers do not think that
<LaserJock> I've seen you around here or there
<LaserJock> we have a big need for documentation
<LaserJock> even things like "this is how you use <edu app>"
<cprofitt> the magazine might have me do a monthly Q&A on F/OSS
<cprofitt> sounds like I can help round some people up for documentation
<cprofitt> if you have the time LaserJock - http://www.classroom20.com/
<LaserJock> or more interesting "this is how you can use <edu app> in your classroom to teach <subject>"
<cprofitt> is a good place for some very forward thinking educators and administrators in K-12
<cprofitt> brb -- kids fighting
<LaserJock> we also need artwork
<LaserJock> if there are artistically-inclined folks out there we'd love to have user contributions to our artwork package
<LaserJock> also sys admin scripts
<LaserJock> if there's something you're constantly having to do an you've scripted a way to do it that you think might be helpful for others we're likely to start putting those in a central "repository" so other people can use/modify/contribute
<jbicha> LaserJock: is there a way I can test-install my package to see if it correctly pulls in mysql or pgsql ?
<cprofitt> back LaserJock
<LaserJock> jbicha: you need to do the predepends in edubuntu-server, not moodle
<LaserJock> jbicha: you can't use the | in Pre-depends
<LaserJock> cprofitt: in terms of roadmap, we're trying to align ourselves more with a focus on LTS releases
<cprofitt> I would think that best LaserJock
<cprofitt> every six months is too much
<LaserJock> cprofitt: essentially making LTS releases the "this is what you should install"
<LaserJock> we'll still have 6 month releases, but we'll be doing more of a cycle as follows
<LaserJock> LTS (primary release)
<cprofitt> for schools and teachers to handle....
<LaserJock> LTS+1 maintenance (SRU, etc.)
<jbicha> LaserJock: but moodle already pre-depends using a | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/karmic/moodle/karmic/annotate/head%3A/debian/control
<LaserJock> LTS+2 new features, rapid development
<LaserJock> LTS+3 features basically complete
<LaserJock> LTS+4 == LTS
<cprofitt> nice LaserJock
<LaserJock> jbicha: ok, give it a try then
<cprofitt> is there an LP team I should join or just join the mailing lists?
<LaserJock> cprofitt: we're still trying to get things in shape, transitioning to a DVD is not easy
 * cprofitt nods
<LaserJock> cprofitt: the DVD for 9.10 should be capable of: 1) installing a standalone (no LTSP) Edubuntu desktop from a Live system 2) install a standalone Edubuntu desktop (with or without LTSP) from the text-based installer
<LaserJock> and you can install just plain Ubuntu if you want ;-)
<LaserJock> the Live part also allows you to demo the educational apps
<LaserJock> which has been a common request
<cprofitt> nice
<LaserJock> cprofitt: for now the mailing lists are good
<LaserJock> cprofitt: we're currently undergoing a LP team overhaul
<cprofitt> ok... let me know when/if I should join an LP team.
<LaserJock> we'll be sending out emails I think as things progress
<cprofitt> I give two presentations a year in my state to the EDU crowd and want to ensure that I try and contribute what I can to the project
<cprofitt> LaserJock, have you heard of the UCLP project?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I would like to say that the *best* way teachers and IT admins can ensure that Edubuntu works for them is to get involved
<cprofitt> I want to have some courses in the UCLP which will help districts train their teachers to use edubuntu.
<cprofitt> I agree on the getting involved...
<LaserJock> even just testing out the Betas is a big help, we for sure can't fix bugs we don't know about
<LaserJock> cprofitt: what's UCLP stand for?
<jbicha> LaserJock: I don't think the patch should be in edubuntu-server, because we'll still have people that may try to install moodle w/o installing the database first
<cprofitt> Ubuntu Community Learning Project
<LaserJock> oh, right
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<LaserJock> yeah
<jbicha> LaserJock: unless we move all of the pre-setup-the-database stuff to edubuntu-server, and let people configure moodle the old-fashioned way
<LaserJock> cprofitt: dinda hangs out here a bit
 * cprofitt nods
<LaserJock> cprofitt: I'm getting a number of requests for training resources
<LaserJock> just private emails from people
<LaserJock> I don't have time, resources for it
<cprofitt> I hope we can develop them... if you want pass the requests to me
<cprofitt> I really think the time is 'ripe' for Ubuntu and F/OSS in K-12
<LaserJock> yep
<cprofitt> restrained budgets, low cost computers, etc
<cprofitt> I do not want to miss this window
<LaserJock> training courses would be a really big way for people to contribute
<LaserJock> jbicha: well, try it in moodle first and see
<LaserJock> jbicha: I'd like to not mess with moodle if we can help it
<cprofitt> will the DVD release be ready for later October or ?
<jbicha> LaserJock: it's not messing with moodle any more than the pre-setup questions already do
<jbicha> LaserJock: I'd like to test-install the package but I can't get Synaptic to install the file or dpkg to install the dependencies
<cprofitt> LaserJock, the Moodle courses we make will be CC so schools should be able to download them to an Edubuntu server install w/ Moodle and use the courses
<cprofitt> LaserJock, do you have a tentative release date for the 9.10 Edubutnu DVD?
<LaserJock> cprofitt: Edubuntu releases same time as Ubuntu and Kubuntu
<LaserJock> they're all built via the same scripts
<jbicha> !karmic
<ubottu> Karmic Koala is the codename for Ubuntu 9.10, due October 29th, 2009 - Karmic is BETA and MAY break - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
<LaserJock> jbicha: well, I mean we're adding a change that's not in Debian
<LaserJock> jbicha: go ahead and test and see if it works
<cprofitt> thanks LaserJock
<jbicha> LaserJock: but I can't figure out how to test it
<cprofitt> LaserJock, can you email me the list of training requests you have...
<LaserJock> jbicha: apply your debdiff, build the .deb, and install it
<cprofitt> that way I can try to get those courses built.
<LaserJock> cprofitt: right now they're very generic along the lines of 1) "how do I build a school lab using Edubuntu?" 2) "how do I install Edubuntu?" 3) "how do I use the edu apps?"
<LaserJock> often it's geared towards "is there any training materials that I can point teachers to?"
<LaserJock> jbicha: do you know how to build a .deb from your source package?
<jbicha> LaserJock: I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/294825/ but I can't fully tell if that fixes the bug or not
<LaserJock> jbicha: you're using dpkg -i to install it?
<jbicha> yes
<LaserJock> run apt-get -f install and see if that helps
<cprofitt> LaserJock, basic or generic is fine with me. Anything will help. If I can get the email of the requester I would be happy to interface with them
<cprofitt> As a sysadmin for a K-12 I have to figure out what teachers are saying very often
<cprofitt> :-)
<jbicha> E: Couldn't find package moodle_1.9.4.dfsg-0ubuntu4_all.deb
<LaserJock> jbicha: hmmpf
<jbicha> it seems like dpkg & the apt database are two separate things
<LaserJock> cprofitt: ok, I'll dig through my email and forward what I find
<LaserJock> jbicha: kinda
<cprofitt> thanks LaserJock
<LaserJock> jbicha: try grabbing the .debs for the postgresql dependencies
<jbicha> LaserJock: what if I put in my PPA ?
<LaserJock> jbicha: yeah, that'd work
<LaserJock> I think the Air Force might expect me to get some work done today
<LaserJock> so I think I better take off for a while
<cprofitt> LaserJock, this is the rough on what I will add to the questions they asked about F/OSS and Ubuntu
<cprofitt> http://pastebin.com/d5f4de57b
<LaserJock> cprofitt: coolio
<cprofitt> this would be the complete version -- http://pastebin.com/d6979cf2f
<cprofitt> with their questions...
<cprofitt> I will let you know if this does turn in to a monthly column.
<LaserJock> cprofitt: btw, it might be worth mentioning that ZaReason sells computers with Edubuntu preinstalled
<cprofitt> ZaReason... let me check them out
<LaserJock> they're roughly like System76
<cprofitt> do they take POs from schools?
<LaserJock> I have no idea
<LaserJock> they're just the only people I know that offer Edubuntu as an option
<cprofitt> k... will do some research on them...
<cprofitt> and I will try to give them a mention as well.
 * LaserJock is out but will read backlog later
<alkisg> sbalneav: (Hi!) You said yesterday that you've been using shared desktops for years... how do you handle the case where one user changes seats, and needs to share his desktop with another user? How do you migrate his documents?
<jbicha> grr... I have to wait 5 hours for this PPA to build
<LaserJock> I hate you Internet Explorer!!!!!!!!
 * mhall119|work feels LaserJock's pain
<LaserJock> it's also annoying to work for a company that's 3000 miles away :/
<LaserJock> I try to do all my financial stuff via IE and Outlook
<LaserJock> and bamm the whole thing crashes
<cprofitt> LaserJock, I feel you pain... I have to work with MS and Apple products at work
<LaserJock> I was successfully MS free for 3 years (except for Tax time) before this job
<LaserJock> now I've got Vista :(
<LaserJock> and a crashing IE
<jbicha> wow, bleeding edge for the US govt
<LaserJock> we're all converting over
<LaserJock> I got a new computer so I got to be an early user/victim
<mhall119|work> lucky you
<sbalneav> alkisg: We've used shared folders for years.
<LaserJock> yeah, they take you computer for 1.5-2 days when they upgrade them
<cprofitt> gah
<cprofitt> 1.5 days for a conversion?
<alkisg> Heya sbalneav. How do you handle the case where a user switches "teams"?
<sbalneav> $HOME is for personal documents, and we set up a /home/share
<cprofitt> We can do one in 1 hour
<sbalneav> Teams we usually handle with groups
<sbalneav> so, we have /home/team1share
<sbalneav> /home/team2share
<LaserJock> cprofitt: yeah, well, government
<sbalneav> eetc.
<LaserJock> cprofitt: they have to reinstall everything
<sbalneav> group owned, sticky bit and/or acls
<alkisg> sbalneav: what I mean is: Students s1, s2 and s3 sit in PC1. Two of them fight, so s3 needs to go to sit in PC2. What do you do with the shared folder in that case?
<cprofitt> LaserJock, we use images...
<sbalneav> So, you'd have /home/pc1share
<sbalneav> /home/pc2share
<cprofitt> and reinstall everything...
<sbalneav> and /home/globalshare
<sbalneav> copy documents from /home/pc1share -> globalshare
<sbalneav> change students group
<sbalneav> move document from global -> pc2share
<sbalneav> mv's and/or cp's as applicable.
<sbalneav> Or, if easier, use mail.
<alkisg> Won't that overwrite the existing files in pc2share? (from exersices with the same name...)
<sbalneav> A name change might be required, yes.
<cprofitt> sbalneav, are the files on a server?
<sbalneav> LTSP servers, yes.  We also have NFS shared home dirs.
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: why all teh share stuff?
<alkisg> Is NFS encrypted?
<alkisg> I.e. if someone listens on the network, will he be able to pick up the data from ~/.* configuration files?
<cprofitt> I am not familiar with your setup...
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: Well, we work in a work environment.  Just because one secretary creates a document, doesn't mean during the life of the document, he/sh will be the only one WORKING on it.
<cprofitt> is the student moving from one computer/terminal to another?
<sbalneav> alkisg: NFS is not normally encrypted, no.
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: right, but wouldn't symlinks or something work better?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> Who's going to create and/or maintain all those symlinks?
<mhall119|work> just symlink folders
<sbalneav> Setting up a shared folder's a ONE TIME thing.
<alkisg> sbalneav: what do you think about the idea to, instead of using groups, have a script "rsync" the shared folder (between teams) each time the users log off?
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: or use something like unionfs
<cprofitt> sbalneav, shared folders and home directories should not need to be moved if they are on a server
<sbalneav> I think it's a bad idea.
<sbalneav> too much can go wrong.
<alkisg> I.e. /home/user1/Documents/shared <rsync-with> /home/user2/Documents/shared
<sbalneav> cprofitt: correct, and they don't need to be.
<cprofitt> ok...
<cprofitt> I misunderstood your question then
<cprofitt> my apologies.
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: How's unionfs going to work over a network?
<sbalneav> you need a network filesystem to unionfs with
<mhall119|work> I think you can unionfs two NFS mounts
<sbalneav> Hmmmmmm I wonder what a good Network File System is.....?
<sbalneav> Network File System
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: Why?
<sbalneav> What's that going to do that having shared directories ISN'T going to do
<alkisg> sbalneav: what exactly do you export with nfs? The whole /home?
<sbalneav> yes
<alkisg> And, do you have any local accounts in e.g. /localhome ?
<alkisg> (for emergencies)
<sbalneav> I can.
<sbalneav> Usually, I just use root for that :)
<sbalneav> (I'm bad and set a root password DON'T TELL ROCKETMAN!!!)
<alkisg> I'd like 1 user to be able to teach when the server is down... :)
<alkisg> :D
<sbalneav> So, set up one "local" ony user per machine
<LaserJock> is it ok that I'm totally confused by the conversation?
<sbalneav> everyone else just nfs mounts /home from the server.
<sbalneav> it's like 1 line in /etc/fstab :)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: We're talking about shared home directories.
<alkisg> And, all the user home dirs *have* to be on the server, right? I mean, I can't have /home/user1 on pc1, and /home/user2 on pc2, and share /home with nfs, right?
<sbalneav> alkisg: Well, not without a lot of difficulty.  For the cost of one extra machine, just set up an NFS server.
<alkisg> OK, thanks a lot sbalneav.... when will you be so kind to put up a wiki page to tell us dumb teachers how to setup that with full details? :D
<LaserJock> you know
<LaserJock> the thing that I find the hardest about LTSP is that there's like an infinite number of combinations to putting the pieces together
<sbalneav> alkisg: sure.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: And a desktop, and a network, and a database, etc etc etc.
<sbalneav> I set up our original network here at Legal Aid in 1992
<LaserJock> right, but like Ubuntu you can basically just plop it out of the box
<LaserJock> but with all the different network and server configurations you can do
<LaserJock> I don't know how you ever get all that great of documentation for LTSP
<sbalneav> So I've had 17 years of beating the bugs out of the system.  Like a lot of system administrators, I'm secretly lazy, so I want things to work with the minimum amount of fuss down the road.
<sbalneav> Well, it's tough.
<LaserJock> unless you go to concrete "profiles"
<sbalneav> Yeah, but you can't go with anything concrete
<sbalneav> because then some guy like alkisg comes along with his completely whacky "3 people sitting in front of a machine" scheme.  I'm sure it works for him, and I'm sure he has good reasons for it, but it's kind of hard to account for EVERY possible way to use a tool.
<sbalneav> What a "professional sysadmin" <bwahahaha> like me tries to do is try to get people to be AS BOG STANDARD as I can cajole/wheedle/browbeat/insult them into being, knowing that DOWN THE ROAD, it's what's going to cost them the least amount of grief.
<sbalneav> After that, we try to accommodate oddities "as best we can"
<alkisg> In Greece I think that the majority of teachers only use one user account per PC, always logged on, and have different folders for each class in the desktop
<alkisg> A few ones have 1 account per class/per pc, and I think I'm the only one that tried to have 1 account per user and failed... :(
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: sorry, had to step out for a minute
<LaserJock> sbalneav: sometimes I think it is better to settle on a few "typical" or "supported" use cases and document them very well than being so vague in order to cover many possible use cases
<LaserJock> at least that's how I felt when trying to write the packaging guide
<alkisg> That's what I'd like to have in edubuntu... "prepackaged solutions" for such problems :)
<alkisg> (for the typical solutions, I mean...)
<LaserJock> I just don't know what "typical solutions" are when it comes to LTSP
<LaserJock> I can figure it out for the edu apps and maybe an edubuntu server
<alkisg> LaserJock: there is a very well defined typical solution for LTSP
<alkisg> You need 2 NICs on the server, 1 is connected to the internet, the other one to a switch with the ltsp clients
<alkisg> It works out of the box in that case - no configuration file editing needed
<alkisg> Ah, here's another one struggling with shared desktops... Hi Lns! :)
<Lns> struggling? =)
<Lns> hey alkisg
<alkisg> (we were talking about what happens when 3 people are sitting in a PC and have different accounts but a common shared folder, and one of them needs to move to another pc... )
<Lns> sitting in a pc? that's gotta be hard! =p
<Lns> I think shared folders would be your last line of concern with that kind of a setup
<alkisg> Heh!!!
<Lns> you mean 3 people on a single pc?
<alkisg> Yup
<Lns> how do you even do that?
<alkisg> Well, if you have 30 students, and 10 pcs, what are you gonna do?
<Lns> so there's 3 people sitting simultaneously at a pc
<alkisg> Yup. 2 or 3 usually.
<Lns> common shared folder between all 30 users? or just the 3?
<alkisg> Just the 3. And maybe one global folder for the teacher to put the assignments
<Lns> k
<Lns> how is it 'shared' ?
<mhall119|work> alkisg: are all 3 logged in with different user accounts at the same time?
<alkisg> mhall119|work: I'm still trying to find out the best way to organize this... Usually, teachers here only have 1 account per pc!!!
<Lns> alkisg: are these ltsp clients or standalone pcs?
<alkisg> mhall119|work: but, like sbalneav said, it's probably better to let only one of them logon
<alkisg> Lns: it doesn't really matter, does it?
<Lns> maybe not, but it'd help to clarify
<Lns> common fileserver is the question i guess?
<alkisg> Lns, I'd like a common solution for both cases, as I'd like to propose the solution to all schools in greece that use linux
<alkisg> Yes, a common fileserver, either ltsp or nfs
<Lns> k
<Lns> well i mean, a fileserver is going to be your answer...shared folders that work across user accounts..ldap+nfs?
<Lns> not sure what the issue is exactly
<alkisg> The problem is that handling the shared folders takes a lot of time...
<Lns> what do you mean?
<mhall119|work> alkisg: explain to me why the shared folders are necessary
<alkisg> OK let's start with that
<alkisg> 3 people sitting on the same PC. One of them logs on.
<alkisg> When the lesson ends, shouldn't the other people have the files from the exercises?
<alkisg> If only one of them logs on, only he gets to have the files
<alkisg> (I mean e.g. a drawing that they did, or a document that they wrote)
<mhall119|work> okay, so 3 students taking the lesson together, but only using a single account?
<alkisg> Can you think of a better way?
<mhall119|work> hmm....
<alkisg> ...and maybe the next week the other student gets to logon... taking turns
<mhall119|work> are these persistant groupings?
<alkisg> Usually yes, except for when they fight and they need to change groups
<alkisg> Maybe once per year...
<mhall119|work> and they need to take their old work to the new grouping?
<alkisg> It'd be nice if they could, yes
<alkisg> That's the worst part :(
<Lns> imho the most flexible approach is going to be "shared folders"...whatever method you choose to do that is really up to you though. I'm not sure what you mean by it being hard to manage them.
<alkisg> Lns, I need to create a group for each of those groups.
<Lns> ok
<Lns> or you could use ACLs
<alkisg> E.g. if I have 300 students, I'll need 300 accounts, and 100 groups
<Lns> k
<Lns> and? =)
<alkisg> And I'll need 100 shared folders, with the correct groups and symlinks etc
<Lns> or you could just use one user account for the 3 people and have 100 users and no groups
<alkisg> And if one user needs to change seat (group) I'll need to change his group, create a new symlink etc
<alkisg> Right
<alkisg> That's what I proposed yesterday, but sbalneav said it's a bad idea legally
<Lns> i dunno about legal stuff, but it seems kind of restrictive technically to me
<Lns> what's up with symlinks? are you doing this all on desktops?
<Lns> why not have a /home/share tree with all the shared folders?
<alkisg> That's what I thought, too. So now I don't know for which method I should start creating scripts for...
<Lns> or /srv might be better as far as standardization goes
<alkisg> Well, isn't it better if they see the shared folder inside their documents?
<Lns> sure
<Lns> with what you showed me with user-dirs.dirs would be easy :)
<Lns> /home/user/Documents
<mhall119|work> alkisg: how about if your shared folders are a unionfs of the individual user's folders
<Lns> if user is in group xyz, sed -s user-dirs.dirs blah blah (upon login)
<mhall119|work> I think you can set it up such that writing to the union-ed shared folder writes to all the individual user's folders
<alkisg> Lns, sure, but again there's all the group (=seat) overhead...
<mhall119|work> but then when you move a user, you have differing copies being union-ed together, I'm not sure how that gets handled
<alkisg> mhall119|work: but how would that work if a user changed seat (=group)?
<Lns> right...you sacrifice ease of use for flexibility in many situations like this
<mhall119|work> alkisg: you change the union for the group, removing his/her folder from the old group share, and adding it to the new group share
 * Lns needs to read up on unionfs
<mhall119|work> yeah, i'm no expert in unionfs
<mhall119|work> but I think that's possible
<alkisg> mhall119|work: I think the "writes" only go to one of the directories, don't they?
<mhall119|work> I don't know, I thought you could write to all
<alkisg> I think you can read from many, but only write to one....
<Lns> alkisg: the group membership overhead is a one-shot deal, after that the only time you'd need to touch it is if someone changes groups.
<mhall119|work> you can write a FUSE filesystem do to this
<alkisg> mhall119|work: ugh, I'm looking to make things easier :)
<mhall119|work> lol
<Lns> lol
<alkisg> heh
<mhall119|work> http://search.cpan.org/~dpavlin/Fuse-0.09/Fuse.pm
<mhall119|work> Perl + Fuse, what could possibly go wrong?
<alkisg> ;)
<alkisg> Anyway... thanks a lot for you thoughts guys... argh I hate not having 1 PC per student :(
<Lns> alkisg: that's like that in a lot of schools unfortunately :(
<mhall119|work> alkisg: you could always just periodically rsync shared folders to user folders,and make them always save to the shared folder
<alkisg> Well if they're gonna change seats, it's still going to be problematic (different contents)
<Lns> yikes.
<Lns> alkisg: so you need the stuff they're working on in the shared folder AS WELL as their home dir?
<mhall119|work> alkisg: true, so maybe a separate folder for each assignment?
<alkisg> Lns, their Documents dir could be their shared folder, no problem there.
<Lns> k
<Lns> so just adjust their user-dirs.dirs file whenever they log in
<Lns> you have a lot of manual work to do no matter what, you have 3 people to a group. if you write a script you can only bunch up 3 at a time..100 runs of the script
<alkisg> My goal is to make everything automatic :)
<Lns> you have to do SOME work no matter what, man ;)
<alkisg> ...the UI I'm thinking for the teacher is a classroom plan (?) where he drags'n'drops the students to the PCs where they're sitting..
<Lns> you're going to design this?
<alkisg> I hope so :)
<LaserJock> alkisg: how do the students log in?
<alkisg> I'm between 2 solutions: one, the classical one, each of them with his own username/password
<alkisg> The second solution is the one you said, with 1 user per pc / per class (=100 accounts in total)
<alkisg> In this case the teacher may select to logon the class A1 automatically from the UI...
<alkisg> So the users wouldn't even need to know their usernames/passwords
<LaserJock> so if we take solution 2
<LaserJock> and the student moves to a different pc
<alkisg> (and if sshfs was used instead of nfs, even ACLs/groupping wouldn't be neccessary)
<LaserJock> you want them to get at their files from the original pc?
<alkisg> The document mergingis still the same problem.. :(
<alkisg> *merging
<LaserJock> ok, well, so what if you had group-driven shares
<LaserJock> ?
<Lns> he doesn't want to take the time to make groups ;)
<alkisg> Meaning?
<LaserJock> so say each PC get's a group
<LaserJock> you have 100 groups
<alkisg> ...and 300 user accounts? or 100 user accounts?
<LaserJock> either
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> either works
<LaserJock> but when a student move then everybody in his group will have access to the "merged" share
<LaserJock> you can't have 1 account/computer and then expect the computer to distinguish between who's looking at it :-)
<LaserJock> but say you have a 1 shared folder / group
<LaserJock> if student X moves from PC 1 to PC 2 you then put in in both group1 and group2
<LaserJock> *put him in
<alkisg> If they fight, I don't want to give him write access to PC1 documents :)
<LaserJock> then drop him from PC2
<alkisg> I think I'll settle with putting the documents of the moving user to /home/PC2/Documents/<moving-user-docs> and let him manually settle them over time... :-/
<LaserJock> so you want him to have read-only access to PC1 documents?
 * LaserJock is trying to figure out the actual problem
<alkisg> I'm sitting on PC1. I write a document named "hi.doc". I argue with them, so I move to PC2. The student already sitting there also has a "hi.doc"
<alkisg> I can't just "mv" the document, as it'll overwrite the other student's "hi.doc"
<alkisg> So I'll have to make the moving user a copy and let him rename it to hi-george.doc or something...
<alkisg> Bah it's a mess :(
<LaserJock> well, 2 thoughts
<Lns> sounds like there should be a much easier way
<LaserJock> 1) just like file conflicts in a VCS, sometimes there is nothing a computer can do to solve the problem
<LaserJock> 2) it's certainly possible to give him access to shares on both PC1 and PC2, I'm not sure about giving him access to PC2 and only read-access to PC1
<LaserJock> unless you want to make all groups have read-only access and then only right permission to groups that the student is specifically a member of
<Lns> alkisg: are you set on using an already established dir for shared stuff (eg. ~/Documents) ?
<alkisg> LaserJock: No no some teachers don't want that, because some students copy the work of others
<alkisg> Lns, I'm not even set on using a shared folder yet :(
<Lns> haha
<Lns> well
<alkisg> E.g. rsync on logout may as well be an option... or just let *them* copy whatever files they need (=read access to group accounts)
<LaserJock> hmm
<Lns> what *I* would do personally is set up a shared dir hierarchy for each PC and groups for users that map permissions to those shares. To me that sounds the most flexible and easiest to deal with future "issues".
<LaserJock> alkisg: you know, you could tell the student "hey, this is what happens when you fight, you get to start over again"
<Lns> if a student has to move, they can copy the files to their own homedir and bring them to the new share.
<alkisg> LaserJock: I've seriously considered this as the best solution!!! :D
<LaserJock> what you could do is have a UI that would allow the teacher to temporarily set permissions
<LaserJock> it would be easiest to do that on a per/session basis
<LaserJock> but maybe something more temporary could be done
<alkisg> LaserJock: if I used sshfs to mount the user homedirs instead of nfs, then the users would only see their own home folders. And it would be even possible for all their files on the server to be owned by the teacher, moving them around without worrying about permissions... :)
<alkisg> (something like "virtual" home dirs, all under the teacher's documents...)
<LaserJock> you can't do that with nfs?
<alkisg> I don't think so
<alkisg> sshfs provides for mapping to a specific uid/gid, I don't think nfs can do that...
<alkisg> Plus the traffic would be encrypted = safer
<jbicha> well, in the "fighting" scenario ... shouldn't the kids have to work together whether they like it or not?
<jbicha> and if a kid can't play nice, then why does he need to take the group's work with him to the next group?
<LaserJock> or for that matter, you could give him a USB stick to transfer his docs
<Lns> alkisg: how would a student "merge" his previous group's work with the new group anyway?
<alkisg> Lns: well, I guess he'd rename what files he wanted
<alkisg> I.e. I could put his files to <newteam>/Documents/moved-user-files/*, and he could rename them and put them in the "correct" place, in <newteam>/Documents/*
<Lns> yikes
<alkisg> (and delete the ones he didn't want to keep, e.g. the ones the other students made)
<alkisg> Yeah in the moving scenario it sounds better if each students has his own files, and no shared folder whatsoever :D
<Lns> sounds to me like if a kid misbehaves he has the consequence of having to inherit the new group's work instead of feeling good about having contributed up until that point
<Lns> but if it's being graded, that presents an issue too
<alkisg> Yes, and also sometimes you don't really know who's to blame
<alkisg> You just know that they need to be seperated
<jbicha> if he has good ideas, he can share them with the next group, he's just as likely to share the work of the other students in the previous group anyway
<Lns> this is a real interesting scenario
<alkisg> If I could see which files they created or modified *today* I could only copy those files to each of the group members
<alkisg> ...but I don't think that would work correctly in all cases (e.g. teacher copying some exercises in their home folders or downloading some old files from the internet etc)
<LaserJock> what you need is to put all of their files in bzr or git
 * alkisg imagines "bzr branch the-movie-I-downloaded-from-youtube" :P :D
<Lns> lol
<alkisg> I think the best way would be to show the 2 other students a synchronization dialog on logout, i.e. "I automatically synched whatever files I could, but there are conflicts on the following files, please specify what to do:"
<alkisg> ...so they could check the files they needed to overwrite... or if they didn't care, they could just close this dialog
<Lns> sounds like it'd be real confusing to the students
<lfaraone> I'm experiencing really shoddy performance when using iTalc (installed on the server) via LTSP. The management console freezes often, and control of the student desktops is amazingly slow. Am I doing something wrong, or is there some way to speed this  up?
<cprofitt> lfaraone, have you ensured the issue is not network related?
<lfaraone> cprofitt: Yes, this is with two clients on a 100mbps switch. Other apps work fine, as does VNC.
<cprofitt> hmm...
<lfaraone> cprofitt: see bug 418150, apparently I'm not the only one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 418150 in italc "Option to disable graphical effects in iTalc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/418150
<cprofitt> looking now
<cprofitt> hmm... they are saying it is graphics driver releated
<cprofitt> I will have to play with that...
<cprofitt> I have not noticed issues wit iTalc like that
<lfaraone> Well, I don't remember what graphics cards we are using at the lab, but I think it's not Intel at least.
<lfaraone> I'm wondering if the older iTalc interface would have the same issues... when I tried compiling it from source, however, there were a bunch of errors; not something I'm inclined to shift through.
#edubuntu 2009-10-17
<cprofitt> FYI -- the article I wrote is up -- http://www.thesmartbean.com/magazine/home-schooling/introducing-your-child-to-linux/
<LaserJock> home schooling, eh?
<LaserJock> I've wondered how much Edubuntu could contribute outside of say the US
<cprofitt> LaserJock, yes... they focus on home schooling but are read by others as well.
<cprofitt> I got zareason included
<LaserJock> ah, cool
<LaserJock> I don't really know them much but we had a few emails regarding installation of Edubuntu
<LaserJock> they wanted a DVD too
<LaserJock> cprofitt: is Linux popular for home schoolers?
<cprofitt> LaserJock, not sure... but they approached me to do the article
<cprofitt> so maybe
<cprofitt> it is definitely a good fit at home
<LaserJock> it would
<LaserJock> although often times you're also using online coursework apps
<LaserJock> which might be tough to use on a Linux machine
 * LaserJock thinks back
<LaserJock> waaaaay back in the day I did some online math courses
<LaserJock> that's actually where I first learned about IRC
<LaserJock> that'd be getting close to 15 years ago
 * cprofitt nods
<cprofitt> online course offerings are getting more Linux friendly
<cprofitt> many schools use Moodle or Sakai
<LaserJock> later we had this cool app with a whiteboard, chat, and voice
<LaserJock> I remember it was the coolest ever on a dial-up modem
<jbicha> LaserJock: almost 6 hours later, my PPA build completed, and the PPA worked fine, it pulled in postgreqsl and set it up before setting up moodle
<LaserJock> but we had to squeeze everything we could out of our 28.8 to get it to work
<LaserJock> jbicha: what about mysql?
<LaserJock> jbicha: can you select mysql instead of postgresql?
<cprofitt> I remember pre -28.8 dial-up
<cprofitt> actually played one of the first MMOGs over a modem
<jbicha> LaserJock: let me check to make sure
 * LaserJock suddenly feels very old
<cprofitt> LaserJock, older than 42?
<LaserJock> I feel it anyway ;-)
<cprofitt> this is the MMO I played -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow_of_Yserbius
<cprofitt> it was back in 1993
<LaserJock> I guess it's part of being done with school
<cprofitt> I got it right before they released Fates of Twinion
<cprofitt> it is...
<LaserJock> I was sort of in "school" mode for 11 years
<cprofitt> one of the markers
<cprofitt> then you hit another when you have children
<LaserJock> and now that I'm doing "real life" I feel like I lost a decade :-)
<cprofitt> did you get a Masters or ?
<LaserJock> PhD
<cprofitt> sounded like it when you said 11 years... what in?
<LaserJock> Chemistry
<cprofitt> I am debating going back for a Masters... working in a K-12 tends to increase the value of holding a Masters degree or higher
<LaserJock> Physical Chemistry to be a bit more exact
<cprofitt> its just hard to go back...
<cprofitt> Nice...
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> that's some of why I just pushed through
<cprofitt> Chemistry was interesting for me in HS
<LaserJock> never even had a summer off in 11 years
<cprofitt> Our teacher had a heart attack and the long term sub was a social studies teacher
<LaserJock> uhhhh
<LaserJock> poor sub
<cprofitt> yeah...
<cprofitt> it was amazing any of us passed our regents exams
<jbicha> LaserJock: yes, if you use the command "sudo aptitude install moodle mysql-server php5-mysql" then it will automatically pull-in & setup mysql & not pgsql
<jbicha> my patch is at bug 440098
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440098 in postgresql "Edubuntu d-i fails when using postgresql as backend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440098
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I'm still uneasy about doing this in moodle
<cprofitt> doing what in Moodle?
<LaserJock> we're trying to make it easy to install
<LaserJock> but the problem has always been the choice of database
<LaserJock> Debian would like to keep flexibility, so they won't lock into either postgresql or mysql
<jbicha> LaserJock: I don't have the pre-depends superstition, but the program won't run without a database
<cprofitt> LaserJock, I can see the quandary
<LaserJock> but it's been a couple year battle to get moodle to have a decent install
<jbicha> LaserJock: if they don't want to be locked in, then they shouldn't preconfigure the database like the package is right now
<LaserJock> they want to give the user an easy choice :-)
<LaserJock> but yeah, it's not easy
<LaserJock> jbicha: we need to check how this will effect upgrades
<LaserJock> so for instance, what happens when a Jaunty user with mysql upgrades
<LaserJock> if it was just Edubuntu's package I wouldn't have any problem
<LaserJock> but I hate messing around with packages that are widely used
<jbicha> LaserJock: if someone has an alternate database they can file a bug and we can add that to the pre-recommends pipe, as it was mysql or pgsql were recommended & thus 1 was installed by default anyway
<jbicha> LaserJock: my mysql/moodle update was successful (there is a message not a warning that "There is already a database named moodle. Error - You must create your PostgreSQL database manually." but that message shows up on every upgrade)
<LaserJock> jbicha: it didn't install postgresql?
<jbicha> no
<jbicha> LaserJock: yeah, there are a few things I don't like about the current moodle setup (like that message) that maybe I'll get to when Lucid devel starts up
<LaserJock> dang, Valencia has a edu distro based on Ubuntu
<LaserJock> those crazy Spaniards
<jbicha> join #lliurex
<jbicha> oops, that channel doesn't exist
<sbalneav> Evening all
<alkisg> Hi sbalneav
<jbicha> LaserJock: are you still pondering the pre-depends issue?
<zzzzac1> Hey, I'm curios. Do the earlier versions have applications 9.04 does not?
<kunnu531> Hi, I am new to this channel and I need some help
<kunnu531> I have hardy 8.04 version
<kunnu531> and when ever I log into KDE session I get an error client-error-bad-request CUPS server error
<kunnu531>  And this doesn't happen in Gnome
<kunnu531> any ideas or suggestions please
<kunnu531> And this doesn't happen in Gnome
<LaserJock> jbicha: yeah
<LaserJock> kunnu531: you might try #kubuntu
<LaserJock> kunnu531: or maybe #ltsp if you're using an LTSP server
 * LaserJock is walking the dog and will be back in a bit
<Dreamwalker> hi
<Dreamwalker> I'm an ubuntu user ... but also a student
<Dreamwalker> what is de difrence between ubuntu and edubuntu?
<Dreamwalker> ??
<Dreamwalker> anyone on?
<sbalneav> Dreamwalker: Edubuntu = Ubuntu + Edu apps + LTSP
<ties> can someone help me i cannot open exe files and idk how to conver them
<ties> connert*
<ties> convert* sorry
<sbalneav> Run windows programs, you mean?
<ties> yes
<sbalneav> There's no "conversion" from exe to Linux.  You can try installing the program called "Wine" which is the windows emulator.
<sbalneav> But many programs don't work correctly, or at all, under wine.
<ties> were do i install wine
<sbalneav> You can find it in the Synaptic Package Manager.
<sbalneav> Under the System -> Administration menu.
<ties> thank you very much... if this does not work is there a way to download windows xp for free?
<sbalneav> As far as I know, it's a commercial program you have to buy to legally use.
<sbalneav> I don't use it, and don't have it.
<sbalneav> The last Microsoft operating system I used was Windows 98, so I'm a little out of touch on that subject.
<ties> ok thank you my computer that had Xp got a virus and thanks to ubuntu i fixed it but all of my files are for xp
<ties> were can i get ubuntu programs
<sbalneav> The Synaptic Package Manager has thousands of programs available that you can legally download for free.
<sbalneav> It's your first, best bet.
<ties> ok i will use that then do u know if there is a Nintendo 64 emulator?
<sbalneav> Search in Synaptic for "nintendo".  There's a bunch of hits for emulators.
<ties_> ok thank you
#edubuntu 2009-10-18
<LaserJock> jbicha: did you verify that our pre-depends issue is a problem in Debian?
<jbicha> LaserJock: um, not entirely since I don't have Debian installed but the source code looked the same
<LaserJock> jbicha: it's good to actually test it
<LaserJock> jbicha: even if it's in a chroot
<LaserJock> historically Debian hasn't had the same issues with moodle that Ubuntu has had
<LaserJock> so I wouldn't necessarily assume that it will behave the same
<Rondom> sbalneav: try mupen64 plus
<Rondom> sbalneav: it is not available as a package but pretty easy to install
<jbicha> LaserJock: gdebi also works for that issue we had yesterday where I wanted to see if installing my package would pull in the appropriate dependencies, and it doesn't take 6 hours :-)
<LaserJock> jbicha: yes! I totally forgot about gdebi
<jbicha> LaserJock: I didn't remember that either until I was trying to go to sleep
<Rondom> ah sorry
<LaserJock> good grief, I found 28 Edubuntu support requests in my inbox :(
<jsgotangco> yikes
<jbicha> LaserJock: I verified both my bugs on Debian sid, I had to dpkg-reconfigure moodle to get moodle's database working
<nubae> hi folkd
<LaserJock> jbicha: k, good
<nubae> or folks even
<nubae> hmmm.... I just complained in the #telepathy channel that there is no #empathy channel which really really confuses new users
<nubae> cause telepathy they dont actually interact with, yet its the channel name... and empathy which they do interact with, well... they go to #telepathy
<nubae> they should all be redirected to #smoke-signals....
<LaserJock> werid
<LaserJock> *weird
<nubae> I tell u, this smells a little like the edubuntu naming debacle
<nubae> and look how hard that was to get out of
<nubae> jeez... I can forsee people using Pidgin just cause of that...
<nubae> why must devs be so marketing unconscious
<LaserJock> usually they have their reasons
<LaserJock> but sometimes their reasons are a bit focused
<jbicha> I can't bring myself to use empathy yet
<nubae> focused?
<nubae> jbicha, well, the problem is that its a marketing/naming mess
<nubae> what in fact empathy is, no one really knows yet.... cause there are many parts to it...
<jbicha> but at least empathy makes more sense than KDE's universal instant messenger Kopete
<jbicha> Kopete hasn't supported IRC since KDE4, but the official development chat channel is on IRC
<nubae> well, at least they both use telepathy as the comms framework
<LaserJock> I like Kopete OK
<LaserJock> I liked Konversation a lot for IRC
<nubae> should support it just fine now... if it uses telepathy, just install telepathy-idle
<LaserJock> but that's gone the way of the dinosaurs it seems
<nubae> actually, that is one thing that empathy is quite nice at... guifying IRC
<LaserJock> nubae: by focused I mean that quite often devs have reasons based on particular, focused, objectives
<nubae> I mean... telepathy
<nubae> :-/
<nubae> y seeeee....
<LaserJock> nubae: i.e. perhaps they don't want to split the community into telepathy and empathy
<jbicha> nubae: I'm annoyed that empathy doesn't support the IRC / commands yet
<LaserJock> yeah, that's a huge problem for me
<nubae> jbicha, sure it does
<nubae> apt-get install telepathy-haze
<nubae> supports full set of irc commands
<LaserJock> you sure?
<nubae> yes
<LaserJock> from within empathy?
<nubae> yes
<LaserJock> because I've never had the /join command work
<sbalneav> Evening all
<nubae> h,mm, /join is an official irc command?=
<jbicha> nubae: doesn't work for me
<nubae> I've never heard of it
<nubae> oh wait... never mind, just slap me with a fish
 * LaserJock needs to run, night all
<sbalneav> I haven't looked at empathy at all.
<jbicha> nubae: Kopete still doesn't work with IRC, I'm using KDE 4.3.2
<nubae> oh this is new: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Protocols%20Support
<nubae> jbicha, have you installed telepathy-idle?
<jbicha> yes
<nubae> sbalneav, unfortunately I've had to memorize the dbus api for work....
<nubae> but now that I know it... I'm pretty psyched
<nubae> for example... I never quite understood the tubes concept
<jbicha> nubae: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167884
<nubae> and really its like this.... imagine y gave a program on computer A running...
<ubottu> KDE bug 167884 in IRC Plugin "Please provide an IRC plugin in KDE 4" [Wishlist,Reopened]
<nubae> and it has a nice bunch of dbus bindings (lots of cute methods and signals)
<nubae> maybe something like tomboy remote control dbus bindings....
<nubae> and now say I have another computer B... running in Spain, for this scenario....
<nubae> this too has a program open with lots of dbus bindings (methods and signals) that make using it a blast
<nubae> now... telepathy, creates a link between the 2 dbuses
<nubae> and makes them 1
<nubae> so program A can use dbus bindings of program 2
<nubae> and vice versa
<nubae> now imagine the possibilitities
<nubae> its like p2p dbus
<nubae> jbicha, might not be too hard to port
<nubae> Im not really a kde user myself
<nubae> but its probably something quite simple like linking to using the telepathy-idle library ofr irc support
<jbicha> nubae: maybe, but the regression has existed for years
<nubae> that just means no one has cared for years :-)
<nubae> whats kopete written in?
<nubae> c=
<nubae> ?
<jbicha> it's just weird that the developers have to use a different program to chat about the chat program they're working on
<jbicha> C++ & QT
<nubae> oh tab autocompletion in xchat would be nice..., not just for nicks
<jbicha> bye for now
<nubae> hmmm yeah
<LaserJock> jbicha: you're original email was fine to Debian
<LaserJock> moodle-packaging@catalyst.net.nz is an older address that's being transitioned
<jbicha> LaserJock: thanks, all this stuff is new to me
<LaserJock> jbicha: np, I just happen to be on the list
<LaserJock> sometimes I stick my nose where it doesn't belong and end up getting listed as Maintainer ;-)
<jbicha> LaserJock: at least this work is more interesting than my real job for me, I just need to wait out my Navy contract and find a way to get paid to do this
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I know the feeling
<jbicha> I have 3 more years
<jbicha> LaserJock: for your quickly question, did you see the videos at http://www.youtube.com/ubuntudevelopers ?
<LaserJock> I was just hoping to get info without watching the video
<LaserJock> I wish people didn't rely on videos so much sometimes :-)
<LaserJock> jbicha: what's the URL for your PPA?
<jbicha> LaserJock: https://launchpad.net/~jbicha/+archive/ppa
<LaserJock> k thanks
<LaserJock> I'm going to try a few Jaunty->karmic upgrades with your moodle package
<jbicha> I guess I was supposed to use this fancy ~ppa1 naming convention, maybe next time
<LaserJock> jbicha: are you an Ubuntu Member?
<jbicha> jbicha: well I don't have a @ubuntu.com email if that's what you mean
<jbicha> LaserJock: I haven't contributed enough yet
#edubuntu 2010-10-18
<end1234> t
<alkisg> u
<robehend1> Was wondering if anyone could help me with a LTSP/Likewise-Open/Pam-Mount issue
<robehend1> !likewise
#edubuntu 2010-10-19
<TheProf> Good day. I hope everyone is well. I am looking for some help with my current FreeNX/No Machine client setup please. I have two servers: An LTSP Fedora 10 box and an Edubuntu 10.10 box. Both sitting in the same server rack, plugged into the same Internet connection. When I use the NX client to connect from my home-based Windows machine, the Fedora server is *much* faster than the Ubuntu one...
<TheProf> ...even though the Ubuntu server has much more superior hardware. Is there a way to resolve this please?
<TheProf> Both servers had FreeNX installed using the regular repository route (yum and apt-get) so nothing customized.  The Fedora session runs beautifully -- it's like I'm sitting at the computer. It's amazing really. The Ubuntu one is more like I'm on a slow modem, watching window edges being drawn.
<TheProf> Thank you
<mhall119> TheProf: do you have desktop effects enabled in Ubuntu
<mhall119> ?
<TheProf> hello mhall119  - no I turned them off
<mhall119> same screen resolutions used by both
<mhall119> ?
<TheProf> yes - I set it in the NX client configuration to 1024x768
<mhall119> hmm...
<mhall119> were desktop effects enabled by default on the Fedora setup?
<TheProf> I don't believe so. I think with Fedora 10 they would have had to have been installed intentionally
<mhall119> okay, maybe you need to install/enable the xdamage extension on the Ubuntu box
<mhall119> that usually caused problems when remote-viewing if you have 3d effects enabled, so it might have been left off by default on Ubuntu
<TheProf> I just checked the fedora installation and there are no desktop effects installed.
<TheProf> For the xdamage extension - this is something that is suppose to help the remote-viewing or is needed for it?
<TheProf> It's strange because on edubuntu all the window's title bars are messed up.  ANd only the title bars.  They are, for lack of a better term, blurry.
<mhall119> because the default visual effects on ubuntu use semi-transparent title bars probably
<TheProf> OK I understand.
<TheProf> OK found an instruction step for the xdamage extension: "A gconf option (/desktop/gnome/remote_session/disable_xdamage) has been added to disable the xdamage extension which is a temporary workaround although it requires more bandwidth. Enable the option through gconf-editor."
<mhall119> it's remote_access, not remote_session, in my 10.10 setup
<TheProf> OK I don't think I have the gconf-editor - just looking for it now
<mhall119> you have it, it's part of Gnome
<mhall119> just alt+F2, and run it
<mhall119> but I think that key might be only for the built-in VNC server, does FreeNX use that?
<TheProf> Not sure - I will try it now
<TheProf> mhall119: I've changed that option, logged out and back in via FreeNX and I believe it has shown some marginal improvement.  The titlebar is still a problem and it isn't yet remotely the same as the Fedora instance, but it is better thank you.
<TheProf> I wonder why it's so different.
<mhall119> TheProf: go to System->Preferences->Appearance and make sure visual effects are disabled
<TheProf> System -> Preferences -> Appearances -> Visual Effects set to None.
<mhall119> hmmm
<mhall119> in that case, I don't know what wouold be causing the titlebar issues
<mhall119> or the slowness in general
<TheProf> It is strange for sure.
<TheProf> I already asked in the NX channel but it seems to be unresponsive.  Should I risk going into the ubuntu channel and asking? :)
<mhall119> it couldn't hurt
<mhall119> ...much
<masai47> Hello everyone,  I am looking for some advice.  I am a Peace Corps Volunteer in Botswana.  I am downloading edubuntu right now.  I hope to be installing it on six different computers at a small school in another village next week.  What advice do you have for installing and setting it up?
<masai47> I unfortunately dont have access to the computers right now, and none of them will be connected to the internet (at least for the near future)
<TheProf> masai47: I just installed Edubuntu last week and it was a flawless installation.  Not sure if you're looking for any specific advice?
<masai47> I have no ideas yet on how I should set up different user accounts
<masai47> I was also thinking about installing some additional programs
<TheProf> You may find that without internet it will be difficult to install additional software but you should find the stock installation already has a bunch of educational software on it.
<TheProf> Will you be using it as an LTSP server or just a bunch of standalone computers?
<masai47> a bunch of standalone
<masai47> well just 6
<TheProf> OK - if they are standalone machines you'll find it's a bit more effort to set it up - as you'll either have to 1) assign a specific computer to specific uses  2) have another machine act as a fileserver if you want their files to follow them around 3) set them up as auto-login kiosks .  I guess it depends on how you plan on using them.
<masai47> I dont think they will even be connected
<masai47> if I was there for a longer period of time and had more resources maybe
<masai47> the problem is that there will not be an experienced user managing these computers
<masai47> me offering them free software meant they could get 6 machines instead of 5
<TheProf> Perhaps the best solution is just to install them separately, then create the users on each machine using the System ->Administration -> users and groups menu option.  Once you've got the accounts created it's very easy -- you won't need an experienced user managing things
<masai47> ok
<masai47> I think I have the wrong word, some one suggested maybe refactoring?? the ISO after I have created a setup I like on one machine (with possibly additional programs installed)
<masai47> that way if there are serious problems they can simply reinstall from scratch from a DVD or USB I give them
<TheProf> I think you might be talking about re-imaging?
<TheProf> IE: someone messes something up so they can restore it back to a new installation /  prior setup?
<masai47> re imaging is the word
<masai47> but that would also allow me to set it up on a different computer over the next few days with access to internet
<TheProf> I don't have much experience with reimaging.  In order to do it effectively I'd imagine you'd need a network of some sort to back up the operating system and all files to another machine in order to re-image it later.
<masai47> I was looking into programs like remastersys
<TheProf> masai47: looks interesting. never heard of it but it may do what you need.  You could try contacting the author directly to see if it fits your need.
<masai47> From what I have read it looks like it does.  just wondered if anybody had experience with it.
<masai47> I have been using Ubuntu for a few years but just as a basic user.  I dont know if any educators have any advice that I can pass on about using edubuntu with school kids of various ages.  As well as any advice on simple user setups (i.e. Primary, Middle school, High school, or one for each grade?  An account for each student?)  Setups for teachers?
<TheProf> I've always used it focusing on the LTSP functionality so there was no real issue with re-imaging the different student machines, etc.  I personally use webmin to manage the accounts because it lets me bulk-create hundreds of students in one step.
<masai47> ok
<masai47> I dont think there will be that many users in this situation
<TheProf> Webmin lets you manage nearly every aspect of the server in a pretty straightforward easy manner so you may want to look into it
<masai47> sadly no way to network these few machine or connect them to the web
<TheProf> you can run webmin locally without internet access after it's been installed
<masai47> computers wont be networked
<masai47> and there will be no serious admin user
<masai47> I was thinking of just having a few generic accounts
<TheProf> That would work perfectly well
<masai47> this is a random question but you have been very helpful.  Are you online most days? and what hours?
<TheProf> masai47: actually this is the first time I am in this channel :)  I came in looking for some help with a specific problem I am dealing with.
<TheProf> I would recommend that you still try this channel as there are others who can help I'm sure.
<masai47>  ok
<masai47> thanks though
<masai47> hope you found help as well
<TheProf> still working on my problem :) thanks
<masai47> new question that may be better suited for the general Ubuntu channel.  After dual booting a windows machine (I have done this) what is the process for removing that Ubuntu install?  or how difficult is it set it up so that most people using the computer are unaffected by the Linux partition
<TheProf> Try this link for how to do that http://forums.techarena.in/operating-systems/1113117.htm
<masai47> thanks
<masai47> sorry for making you do a google search that I could have probably done myself
<TheProf> No I had done it a long time ago and remembered that it was online someplace
<robehend1> Anyone care to help with getting Home Folders shared and writeable by windows users in 10.04 LTSP?
<mgariepy> you want to export /home/$USER/ with a samba share from a windows server ?
<mgariepy> ha
<mgariepy> oops
<masai47> I am installing edubuntu on a computer with a pre-existing Windows XP installation and am having to use the advanced partitioning tool.  The partition for edubuntu should be Ext4, or 3 or 2?  which is best?  Thank you
<mhall119> use ext4
<masai47> thanks
<masai47> when choosing the Device for boot loader installation.  Is it is ok to just select /dev/sda? or should I choose the specific partition for edubuntu?  e.g. /dev/sda3
<masai47> and something that may affect the answer is that I may be forced to delete the Ubuntu partition yet will still need to have it boot into Windows (sadly)  and will not have an XP disk to do a repair
<masai47> hope I did not miss a response (my connection in Africa is not always stable)
<mhall119> masai47: /dev/sda is fine
<masai47> thanks a lot
<mhall119> if you delete uBuntu and still need windows
<mhall119> you'll need to boot from the windows CD and restore it's bootloader
<masai47> (this is a government computer and I cant mess with the XP partition much)
<masai47> ok, is there away of reducing that partition to being very small and have grub loader load windows automatically with out a pause?
<alkisg> masai47: you can also use wubi for installation within the windows partition. That also uses the windows bootloader so it's easier to remote ubuntu.
<alkisg> *remove
<masai47> would that be easier?
<mhall119> masai47: you might want to try WUBI then, instead of creating a partition for Ubuntu
<mhall119> like alkisg said, before I finished typing
<masai47> opps, might be too late
<masai47> any easy way to stop the install once it has started
<masai47> I think it started the partitioning process and there is no cancel choice.  Not sure if the first task is to write the grub loader
<masai47> I am now wondering if this has gotten stuck.  I have gone forward through to the "Who are you?" page.  I cant go forward yet there are green checks next to every entry
<alkisg> How big is your windows C:\Documents and settings?
<alkisg> At some point it tries to import windows accounts... don't check that, it'll copy all of your data too
<masai47> never mind.  If I use Wubi and install it inside the windows partition
<masai47> can it still use a linux swap partition?
<masai47> can someone confirm that wubi can install Edubuntu
<masai47> It says it does not support DVD or alternate install disk and I find no mention of edubuntu
<masai47> It says to run wubi in the same folder as the ISO but that does not seem to be working, it just tries to download (not possible as I am behind a proxie) and there are no options for selecting a previously downloaded ISO
#edubuntu 2010-10-20
<highvoltage> â edubuntu Meeting in a bit more than 10 minutes on #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> ~/win 29
#edubuntu 2010-10-21
<bucky_> hey need some ideas anyone here to talk
<alkisg> Good morning
<mhall119> you guys familiar with http://en.community.dell.com/dell-groups/edu4u/default.aspx ?
<stgraber> nope, not much about ubuntu on that apparently though
<stgraber> boarding time, should be back online from Orlando in 4-5 hours.
<mhall119> see you in a few days
<docente> Hi, when you works with tuxmath on client side with Edubuntu LTSP, how is working game performance?
<shazzr> Has anyone ever tried to get a SMARTboard 680 to work on Edubuntu 10.10?
#edubuntu 2010-10-22
<alkisg> Good morning
<mhall119> highvoltage: you need a visa to visit the USA from Canada?
<mhall119> or is this because you're in Canada on a visa from South Africa?
<dinda> mhall119: the QIMO project should participate in the new Google project to get kids ages 13 - 18 into open source projects
<dinda> mhall119: http://code.google.com/opensource/gci/2010-11/index.html
<mhall119> dinda: I was reading about that earlier
<mhall119> but we don't really have any "students"
<dinda> mhall119: if Ubuntu as a project doesn't participate, the I might do it under the Edubuntu umbrella
<mhall119> the goal is to get teens writing code, correct?
<dinda> mhall119: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleCodeIn2010/Ideas
<highvoltage> mhall119: yep :-/
<dinda> mhall119: no, the tasks are much broader than just code
<mhall119> you know there is an ubuntu-youth team, right dinda ?
<mhall119> with specifically that age range
<dinda> didn't think it was very active
<highvoltage> mhall119: it's because I travel on a South African passport and their afraid I'm going to steel minimum wage labour work from Americans
<highvoltage> s/their/they're/
<mhall119> highvoltage: no no, only hispanics do that
<highvoltage> mhall119: tell your government that ;)
<mhall119> no wonder they won't let you into the country, you've got your stereo-types all wrong
<mhall119> highvoltage: just tell them they're oppressing you because you're African
<highvoltage> mhall119: oh, they're very aware of that!
<mhall119> I'll send Al Sharpton to the rescue
<mhall119> highvoltage: so are you going to miss all of UDS?
<highvoltage> mhall119: I don't know. I'm going to miss at least Monday and Tuesday currently
<mhall119> ah, you'll miss the pizza party
<highvoltage> yup.
<mhall119> I'd save you a slice, but my thursday it might be a bit funky
<dinda> It doesn't look like I'll be making it to UDS either
<highvoltage> It's not that I'm a very hateful person, but it's stuff like this that makes me understand why so many people are so anti-American
<mhall119> dinda: oh no! who's going to run your server-in-a-box session then?
<highvoltage> mhall119: heh, I'll get some local pizza and be there in spirit :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: there you go
<highvoltage> mhall119: would you have time fo fill in something like this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityReview/Sep2010/Advocacy
<highvoltage> I guess it's better to have someone newer in our community fill it out than someone old
<stgraber> mhall119: are you staying at the UDS hotel or driving everyday ?
<mhall119> you calling me old?
<mhall119> stgraber: i'll be driving
<highvoltage> mhall119: no, I'm saying that stgraber and I are ;)
<mhall119> highvoltage: I'd be happy to fill it out for packaging and submitting to universe of my qimo packages
<highvoltage> mhall119: great!
<stgraber> mhall119: feels weird being outside by the swimming pool working on my laptop at the end of October ;)
<mhall119> stgraber: it's nice isn't it?
<mhall119> you'd never even know there was a tropical storm in the gurl
<mhall119> gulf
<stgraber> mhall119: saw that on TV last night
<mhall119> welcome to Florida!
<TheProf> I have a question: I've been running Fedora 10+LTSP in our school and just installed a second server with Edubuntu (Ubuntu 10.10+ltsp). Both servers in same rack, same internet connectivity, etc.  Installed FreeNX on both for remote access. For some reason the Ubuntu box's session is *much* slower than the Fedora box, even though it's on superior hardware. Desktop effects are off.  Any...
<TheProf> ...recommendations please?
<alkisg> Different freenx versions? Try neatx?
<stgraber> where did you take you freenx for Edubuntu ?
<stgraber> the one in freenx-team is broken
<TheProf> alkisg: I know the client version is the same one because I'm using it on an XP machine to connect to both Linux servers at the same time.
<alkisg> The client ok, but the server?
<TheProf> stgraber: I followed the instructions online to obtain it through an apt-get repository
<TheProf> Let me just check the exact details now on it
<stgraber> ok, so you probably use the broken version.
<stgraber> does it take 40s to connect (give or take) ?
<TheProf> I'm trying it now - yes it does seem to take about half a minute.
<stgraber> you may want to remove the freenx-team PPA, remove the freenx packages you currently have installed, add https://launchpad.net/~revolution-linux/+archive/ppa and reinstall the same packages (we have a different version in that ppa)
<stgraber> in my tests the one in freenx-team takes 40s to connect and feels sluggish, the one in revolution-linux is an older version we ported to maverick and connects in 4-5s
<alkisg> stgraber: got any neatx version there? :)
<alkisg> The neatx from freenx-ppa also takes 40 secs to connect, but is fast when it does
<stgraber> alkisg: nope, we use freenx for RDP quite a lot and neatx doesn't support RDP
<TheProf> OK so I just went through the shell commands I used to install it. I actually installed it by downloading and installing: https://bugs.launchpad.net/freenx-server/+bug/576359/+attachment/1378450/+files/nxsetup.tar.gz
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576359 in FreeNX Server "How to install in Lucid" [Undecided,New]
<stgraber> alkisg: the issue in our tests was the agent, maybe they share the same code for that part
<alkisg> One can connect with an rdp client to freenx?!
<TheProf> alkisg: I am not familiar with neatx - is it the same thing as FreeNX?
<stgraber> alkisg: nope, the other way around. We use it for a few customers who have a ltsp-cluster setup but with Windows server
<alkisg> TheProf: yes, it's smaller and easier to setup, but apparently it lacks features...
<stgraber> alkisg: NX is a lot faster and takes a lot less bandwidth than RDP
<stgraber> alkisg: so they connect over NX, we load-balance them then connect over RDP from the NX load balancer to their RDP application server
<alkisg> Ah, got it, ty
<alkisg> TheProf: neatx is on the same freenx-team ppa
<TheProf> so basically what i did was download, untar, and run /usr/lib/nx/setup --install
<alkisg> Maybe they use some common broken library that dns-timeouts before connecting, I heard something like that
<TheProf> stgraber: can I uninstall that version I put in and install the one you recommended?
<stgraber> ouch, you really should have installed it from the package
<stgraber> removing it when installed by hand will be quite tricky
<TheProf> Argh.  It was the only guide I could find at the time.
<stgraber> what you would want is a clean Edubuntu install, then do:
<stgraber> 1) sudo apt-add-repository ppa:revolution-linux/ppa
<stgraber> 2) sudo apt-get install freenx-server
<stgraber> 3) you're done
<TheProf> I just took a look at the setup script and it accepts an --uninstall option
<TheProf> stgraber: ok that's great instructions thank you
<stgraber> TheProf: you can test it at: http://www.edubuntu.org/vmmanager
<stgraber> TheProf: that's what we use for our web demo
<TheProf> I understand. this machine is a clean installation so hopefully I can get it removed
<alkisg> stgraber: cool!!!
<highvoltage> alkisg: you didn't know about that yet? :p
<alkisg> Nope, you guys didn't give it enough publicity!
<TheProf> I had no idea either.
<highvoltage> alkisg: suggestions welcome on where it should be publicized ;)
<alkisg> I'll do my part :)
<TheProf> stgraber: argh x 2 - I successfully was able to uninstall the nxserver I downloaded and got "Ok, NX server is uninstalled" message but after I followed your instructions I got "freenx-server already the newest version"
<TheProf> what are the chances this can be resolved by rebooting the server? :D
<stgraber> apparently their uninstall script doesn't work so well
<stgraber> very very slim
<TheProf> OK.
<TheProf> interestingly apt-get remove freenx-server seems to work
<stgraber> oh, maybe removing it will cleanup the previous install, then reinstall might work
<TheProf> During the removal apt also mentioned a bunch of packages that were installed and no longer required: mbfs libxcompshad3 esound-common nx-common libxcompext3 nxagent libxcomp3 libesd0 expect freenx-smb libaudiofile0 nxlibs cifs-utils esound-clients
<TheProf> Seems like a lot of stuff for just freenx
<stgraber> apt-get autoremove --purge
<TheProf> highvoltage: I'd recommend that NX info be available perhaps on the Wiki/community pages?  I know I checked there first for anything like it but couldn't find anything
<stgraber> will get rid of these
<TheProf> stgraber: thank you - I am trying it now
<stgraber> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX might need an update, it's still recommending the freenx-team ppa
<stgraber> highvoltage: ^
<highvoltage> I see.
<highvoltage> (for lack of better response :p)
<highvoltage> stgraber: you mean, get rid of these as in replacing with x2go?
<TheProf> X2go from what I understand doesn't work in Windows right?
<stgraber> it does, though the packaging really sucks on the server side
<stgraber> highvoltage: at least update it to refer to revolution-linux's ppa which gives you a working nx
<stgraber> highvoltage: because freenx-team currently uses a newer upstream NX that works only half of the time, takes a long time to connect and feels slower
<TheProf> OK - just asking as our teachers, etc would access the server generally through Windows.
<highvoltage> *sigh* we need a bigger docs team :)
<TheProf> the autoremove purge command worked except that user nx seems to still be logged in and therefore can't be deleted.
<TheProf> is the correction solution to switch to single-user mode?
<TheProf> or am I just making stuff up? :)
<stgraber> sudo pkill -u nx
<stgraber> that should fix your nx user issue
<stgraber> sudo deluser nx
<stgraber> to actually remove it after that
<TheProf> OK great. Deleted the user, and then apt-get autoremove -- purge worked fine.  Then ran apt-get install freenx-server and it installed. however, I think it installed it from the wrong source (IE: freenx-team PPA rather than the other one). Is there a way to determine where a package came from?
<stgraber> dpkg -l | grep freenx-server
<stgraber> what's the version number you see there ?
<TheProf> 0.7.3.git100327.e224628-0~ppa7~lucid
<stgraber> 0.7.3.git100327.e224628-0~ppa6~maverick is the one in revolution-linux
<stgraber> ah, you are running lucid
<TheProf> you mean the OS or the version of freenx?
<stgraber> os
<TheProf> I just installed Edubuntu 10.10 on Monday
<TheProf> it was a clean install
<TheProf> I may have screwed up and mixed repositories? :(
<TheProf> Didn't think that was possible.
<stgraber> I guess you did ;)
<stgraber> grep -ri lucid /etc/apt/
<TheProf> Is there a pastebin or should I paste it in here?
<stgraber> is it giving you that many lines ?
<TheProf> 4 plus 2 permission denied errors
<stgraber> paste.ubuntu.com
<TheProf> http://paste.ubuntu.com/518278/
<stgraber> ok, so:
<stgraber> 1) sudo apt-get remove --purge freenx-server
<stgraber> 2) sudo apt-get autoremove --purge
<stgraber> 3) rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/freenx-team-ppa-maverick.list
<stgraber> 4) sudo apt-get update
<stgraber> 5) sudo apt-get install freenx-server
<stgraber> assuming you already did the apt-add-repository, it "should" work
<TheProf> It's just processing now
<TheProf> OK, running dpkg -l | grep freenx-server gives
<TheProf> 0.7.3.git100327.e224628-0~ppa6~maverick
<TheProf> Wohoo! same one you had :)
<stgraber> that's better ;)
<TheProf> stgraber: Indeed! thank you.
<TheProf> I just have to now generate a new key and try it out on the client
<TheProf> unless it inherited the old key? :)
<stgraber> key should be fine
<stgraber> oops, 5 minutes of battery life, apparently I should head back to my room ... will be back a bit later
<TheProf> stgraber: just got it to work
<TheProf> It's faster than the other version of FreeNX that was installed for sure.
<TheProf> There still seems to be some rendering issues -- for example it doesn't render the titlebar of the windows - it's just missing. If you click where it should be, it is there, but invisible.
<stgraber> oh, weird, never saw that before
<stgraber> do you also see that issue on www.edubuntu.org/vmmanager ?
<TheProf> trying it there now
<TheProf> the previous version of freeNX we just uninstalled had a similar problem -- instead of the bar being invisible, it was all fuzzy like an out-of-tune analog TV
<stgraber> weird, I never saw that before ... could it be a client configuration issue ?
<TheProf> stgraber: could be.  The vmmanager doesn't allow me to connect. It always fails after the connection is established with a 'authentifcation failed for user' note. I tried two different usernames and passwords
<TheProf> stgraber: trying a different browser now
<stgraber> oh, something is indeed a bit off with that VM ... I'm checking
<TheProf> No problem
<TheProf> Yup - it is faster but I think I was spoiled by the previous FreeNX sessions under Fedora. For some reason it REALLY flew under K12Linux
<shazzr> Anyone who use SMARTboard+Edubuntu?
<TheProf> stgraber: Unfortunately I have to leave now.  Thank you very much for your help -- hopefully I will try the vmmanager link and see if it also shows the same NX issues. Thanks
#edubuntu 2010-10-23
<shazzr> Hi guys. If I issue the command 'tasksel', I get to choose "Edubuntu server". Where can I get som info about what that is?
#edubuntu 2010-10-24
<TheProf> Good day. I hope everyone is well. I had just finished setting up the new Edubuntu 10.10 server and was going to be conducting some testing when our old Fedora LTSP server just crashed! Fortuitous timing I suppose :)
<TheProf> My question is how do I move everyone's home files from the old to the new without messing up permissions?
<alkisg> Lots of ways, none of them #edubuntu-specific... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem
<alkisg> There are subpages of that wiki page, e.g. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem/TAR
<TheProf> alkisg, I know what you mean about it not being Edubuntu specific.  However asking in #ubuntu is sorta daunting :)
<alkisg> There's also #ubuntu-beginners which might be more friendly
<TheProf> alkisg, ah - didn't know that.  My confusion about backing up and restoring are due in part because many of the online instructions are how to backup/restore only a single user.  Will these systems work for multiple home accounts?  IE: backup A/B/C and restore them so when they log into the new accounts A gets access to A, etc, etc?
<alkisg> Those instructions are for complete systems, not for single users, so they apply.
<TheProf> alkisg, Great.  I was just worried since due to the crash I'm being forced to make this server a production one without the normal testing to make me comfortable with it, etc
<TheProf> OK one more question please -- my plan was to export and then import the users/passwords using the Webmin interface. Is there another way that allows me to bulk create accounts while maintaining their old password?  Thank you
#edubuntu 2011-10-17
<dgroos> hi alkisg getting a vinagre:5928 Warning Resolving failed: timeout reached message.  How can I resolve this?
<dgroos> I quit epoptes, restart it, but still get this error coming from a client.  Or that's what I infer -- I'm accessing the server remotely (NX).
<dgroos> By quitting the terminal window, reopening it and reopening epoptes I was able to view a computer screen again that I had been unable, so that's great.  I still get the warning, though with a different #.
<alkisg> Hi dgroos, /me reads...
<alkisg> So, you're logging in with NX, and want to broadcast your screen to the classroom?
<dgroos> I logged in to the server via NX, opened terminal and opened epoptes.  I double-clicked on a screen, saw it, chose to execute/send message, did so.
<dgroos> Then I closed epoptes, noticing that there were quite a few of those messages.  Then I reopened epoptes via terminal again...
<dgroos> and tried to open the screen to which I had sent the message but it only opened up gray.
<dgroos> closing down epoptes again I saw a lot of those messages, again tried to access the screen by re-opening epoptes and double clicking on the icon but still gray screen.
<dgroos> I closed terminal window, reopened a window, reopened epoptes and then was able to view the screen by double clicking on the icon.  So, that was good.
<dgroos> there were still those Vinagre warnings though with a different number.
<alkisg> (10:56:41 Î¼Î¼) dgroos: and tried to open the screen ==> when you say "open a screen", do you mean a VNC connection with vinagre?
<alkisg> (i.e. double click on the client thumbnail)?
<dgroos_> yes. yes.
<alkisg> dgroos_: read this please, I reported it 2 weeks ago, maybe it's the vinagre bug you're mentioning? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=661289
<ubottu> Gnome bug 661289 in VNC "Closing vinagre leaves 5500 port in TIME_WAIT state" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<alkisg> In short, vinagre has a bug in that it leaves the port open for 1 minute and can't reuse it.
<alkisg> It can be avoided if one uses the toolbar [x close] button instead of the title bar [x] button
<dgroos> I'll experiment and see if that seems to apply (with the x out factor).
<alkisg> netstat -nap | grep TIME_WAIT might also be of use
<alkisg> Hmmm we'll need a faq or troubleshooting page in the site for such known bugs of other programs...
<dgroos> I made a new connection to the server via NX as I had disconnected.
<dgroos> I opened epoptes via terminal.  School is over and only 1 computer was still logged in, though it had a black screen...
<dgroos> I double clicked on the screen's icon, it opened showing a black screen (NOT gray).  The warnings on the terminal window about the VINAGRE warning appeared...
<alkisg> Warning Resolving failed: timeout reached message => that probably means that your server is not aware about your thin/fat client DNS name, I don't think it's anything to worry about
<alkisg> So, now try closing the connection with the toolbar [x close] button
<dgroos> I disconnected from the vinagre window cy clicking on the x icon, not by the x button in the title bar.
<alkisg> Don't close the vinagre window
<alkisg> Ah ok
<alkisg> Go with that test first, ok
<alkisg> So vinagre now is still open?
<dgroos> when reopening the window it was gray...
<alkisg> (the window, not the connectino)
<dgroos> then I closed that with the x in the title bar.  waited a couple of minutes, reopened and it opened just fine.
<dgroos> I repeated these tests and got similar results.
<alkisg> (11:13:34 Î¼Î¼) dgroos: I disconnected from the vinagre window cy clicking on the x icon, not by the x button in the title bar. ==> did you close the vinagre window then?
<alkisg> Try keeping the vinagre window open
<alkisg> Close the connection with the [x close] toolbar button, and minimize the window
<alkisg> And try double-clicking on the client thumbnail again
<dgroos> to conclude, the waiting of re-opening the connection made a difference but which button I used to end the session, didn't.
<dgroos> ok I'll read your stuff now :)
<alkisg> You should be able to do that as many times as you want without vinagre having the bug
<alkisg> If you want, I can also check with vnc
<dgroos> OK, I'll check about closing the connection but not the window and re-clicking on the icon...
<dgroos> But right now the teacher just logged out so there aren't any logged in users at that school :)
<alkisg> Heh, you can use ldm_autologin if you want,and reboot a client
<dgroos> Check this page for the netstat results from the test I did a while back...
<dgroos> pastie.org/2713615
<dgroos> http://pastie.org/2713615
<dgroos> no way!  how does one do that?
<dgroos> oh! the teacher just logged back in :)  I'll message him to say logged in...
<alkisg> For the TIME_WAIT problem, the affected port is 5500
<dgroos> OK, just tested and sure enough, I just need to leave the window open, just disconnected from client...
<alkisg> If you want, comment on that bug report so that it gets on "triaged" state...
<dgroos> sure enough, when I close the vinagre window, that's when it becomes unconnectable for a while.  Right now testing the 60 second thing... sure enough, it is a 60 sec wait required after closing the window.
<dgroos> I'll comment on the bug report... :) 'the squeaky wheel' and all...
<dgroos> alkisg, my results are a bit different than how I understand your report...
<alkisg> Shoot - it's been a long time since I looked at the problem, over a year, I just now took the time to report it, so I might have remembered something wrong...
<dgroos> When I close with the toolbar and then close the window, I still can't get back to the window...
<alkisg> What if you (1) close with the toolbar (2) wait 1 minute (3) close the window?
<dgroos> in otherwords, x toolbar first doesn't prevent the issue of the the window needing to wait 60 seconds to be able to reestablish the functionality.
<dgroos> I'll try...
<dgroos> it works to do what you described above (wait minute after x-toolbar to x-window), how does this test jive with being able to x-toolbar and re-open with epoptes--this is confusing.
<alkisg> No it makes sense. The vinagre maintainers just need a REUSEADDR flag (don't remember the exact name) when they try to listen on 5500 the second time they launch
<dgroos> hmmm... closing x-toolbar, wait 30 seconds, close x-window, wait 30 seconds, then try to restart and it works... :) hmmmm...
<alkisg> SO_REUSEADDR
<dgroos> Not sure of all the details to include in the bug report comment.
<alkisg> If they don't, for 12.04 I'll upload a fixed vinagre package to the greek schools ppa
<alkisg> I think a confirmation, along with the fact that "if the window is closed, the user needs to wait for 1 min" should suffice
<dgroos> 'k, thanks.
<dgroos> OK, will finish it up.
<alkisg> np :)
<dgroos> So, any idea of the timeline about having a beta to try that has the grouping of clients possible?  Both teachers are now using epoptes and there are about 40 clients showing up on the screen, and only about half are theirs.  I told them it might show up in a couple of weeks.
<dgroos> Sound about right?
<alkisg> Hmm it should be either sooner, or later :D
<alkisg> I've uploaded a new version to the -proposed repository, which has the basis for launching epoptes in a fat client
<alkisg> Now I'd also like to have an lts.conf setting to tell epoptes-client which server to prefer
<dgroos> Not already part of the /etc/default/epoptes settings?
<alkisg> That doesn't suffice for thin clients
<alkisg> They all have the same file, but you want a different setting for half of them
<dgroos> Sure.
<alkisg> dgroos: is your whole network gigabit, including the fat client where you work?
<dgroos> No, only between the server and the switches.
<alkisg> Then it would go slower if your fat clients were used
<dgroos> Not sure what you mean?
<alkisg> You broadcast to e..g 10 clients
<alkisg> Your fat clients NIC is 100mbps
<alkisg> That makes for about 10mbps per client
<alkisg> Same for your fellow teacher
<alkisg> Now, if both of you were using the server for broadcasting (e.g. with remoteapps), you'd get
<alkisg> (the server is gigabit) 1000 / 20 clients = 50 mbps per client
<alkisg> 5 times better performance if you use remoteapps
<alkisg> dgroos: btw, the filter is already working now, you just need to pass it as a command line parameter
<dgroos> hmmm... that math seemed to be buried somewhere in my intuition--this analysis confirms this...
<alkisg> epoptes --filter = xxx
<dgroos> really!?
<alkisg> Yes, we're just planning to remove that when the classroom editing dialogs get in place
<alkisg> We won't remove it before the UI is there
 * alkisg checks the code, it's: epoptes --filter-host=xxx           ,....
<dgroos> I'll try this, then we'll update the lts.conf file, then I'll make a launcher for these 2 teachers for their desktops w/the correct filter.  Thanks again....
<dgroos> right.
<alkisg> Right
<dgroos> ! ldm_autologin
<dgroos> thought I'd try...
<alkisg> Not here - only in #ltsp
#edubuntu 2011-10-18
<highvoltage> just added all the edubuntu links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Social
<highvoltage> if I missed something, please add :)
<Barco_> I have a problem with Italc - after connecting clients it sometimes fails to display a fullscreen or window demo.
<Barco_> Anyone who has experience with the unexpected issues on Italc?
<alkisg> Yes, it's sadly known that italc crashes too often
<Barco_> Any good alternatives? It currently drives me up the wall...
<alkisg> We've developed www.epoptes.org for this
<alkisg> It's a bit early-released as a project, but it should be more stable that italc
<alkisg> *than
<Barco_> Looks good, I will certainly try it out. Italc has a good concept but it's a beta release at best based on stabillity.
<Barco_> I guess this was developed after the frustration of struggling with Italc? It's really unpredictable. Seems the auth keys become inacessable sometimes. Makes demo connection impossible. Might be very buggy code.
<alkisg> Something like that, yes
<alkisg> We had some scripts to manage clients, and at the same time were using italc
<alkisg> When we saw it was impossible to make it work on some labs, we decided to extend our scripts to offer vnc, screen locking etc
<alkisg> Then some international users were also frustrated with italc so we decided to extract the classroom management code to a separate project...
<alkisg> It'll grow up in a few months, the first i18n release was just a week ago
<alkisg> But we've been using it locally for about a year
<alkisg> Barco_: is your language English? Or you need a translation too?
<Barco_> Thank you for the recomendation and all the work you guys put into this. It wil definitely reduce my frustration in the class.
#edubuntu 2011-10-20
<Atharva> hi... Does edubuntu has kde as default desktop user interface ?
<stgraber> no
<Atharva> so which is it ?
<Atharva> and what is the speciality of wdubuntu ?
<philip__> Hello everyone
<alkisg> Hi
#edubuntu 2011-10-21
<Kung-Fu-SAffa> hi guys
<Kung-Fu-SAffa> I am setting up an edubuntu 11.10 lab
<Kung-Fu-SAffa> but I can't seem to find the correct place to change the dns names for dhcp
<Kung-Fu-SAffa> all my clients keep on being pointed to 192.168.0.1 and not to 192.168.0.250
<Kung-Fu-SAffa> i have made the changes in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<Kung-Fu-SAffa> but they don't seem to be having any effect
<Kung-Fu-SAffa> help would really really be appreciated
<Kung-Fu-SAffa> anyone?
<Kung-Fu-SAffa> guys I'm stuck out in the stix and really need a hand
#edubuntu 2011-10-22
<Moe__> hello everyone
<Moe__> need a little help pxe booting an edubuntu cd
<Moe__> I have the contents published to my web server
<Moe__> I pulled the initrd and the vmlinuz file off of the dvd
<Moe__> but I keep dropping to initramfs during pxe
<Moe__> anyone?
<alkisg> Hi
<alkisg> Moe__: are you using ltsp? Or just the live cd contents?
<alkisg> If you want to netboot the live CD, here's a link to a script I've made for this: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LiveCDNetboot
<Moe__> not ltsp
<Moe__> using the contens of a full dvd to pxe install
<Moe__> I can pull it off with Fedora, im trying with edubuntu now
<alkisg> Moe__: see the link I posted, it has information on how to do it manually, and it even has an automated script that does it for you
<Moe__> ok looking at it now
<Moe__> hello all
<Moe__> I have a little issue with login on an ldap client
<Moe__> I put in the user name and password
<Moe__> but nothing happens
<Moe__> I tested getent passwd <username>
<Moe__> it returns the ldap values
#edubuntu 2012-10-16
<tsol> Hello
<tsol> I'll just throw this out there, hopefully someone sees it before I go to bed.  ;)
<tsol> I'm trying to use the weblive thing, but it never launches and just says:  'Environment field is required'.    I have the Fullscreen option checked, and am using a Mac.  I have tried both Firefox & Safari, but get the same result.
#edubuntu 2012-10-17
<jbicha> hey, is https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/quantal-changes/2012-October/011790.html something that needs to land in Edubuntu before release
<jbicha> I'm a bit confused by the description but it sounds like it won't migrate quantal users who have already logged in to GNOME Classic
<stgraber> jbicha: it sounds like it needs to be in the archive before release, yes
<stgraber> jbicha: it doesn't need to be on a media though, so as long as it's a 0-day SRU and is published in -updates by the time we release, we'll be good
<jbicha> what if somebody installs from the CD and logs in to GNOME Classic before applying updates?
<stgraber> jbicha: I'm not sure and I don't have time to look into this (nor time to respin anyway), but my understanding is that it's only touching the migration code, is that incorrect?
<jbicha> I haven't tested yet
<jbicha> GNOME Classic with effects has been broken in quantal since the gsettings switch and it just sounded from the changelog like the fix doesn't work right for existing quantal users
<stgraber> livecd/ubiquity/target-config/60edubuntu-default-session:        chroot /target /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --session gnome-fallback || true
<stgraber> so not a problem, we don't use classic, we use fallback
<stgraber> as classic was indeed busted for beta2 and I got bored and hardcoded fallback everywhere
<stgraber> (according to the chngelog ;))
<jbicha> ok, maybe less of an issue, but with effects is still on your image
<stgraber> yeah, at least users won't be getting it by default, so 0-day SRU is fine
<jbicha> ok, so Edubuntu 12.04 uses Unity by default but 12.10 uses Fallback?
<stgraber> default for desktop is Unity, default for LTSP is fallback
<stgraber> and we have an installer option to use fallback
<jbicha> ok
<stgraber> only way you get classic is by choosing it at login time
<highvoltage> edubuntu 12.04 uses unity 2d by default for ltsp and 12.10 uses fallback by default for ltsp. both use 3d by default
<stgraber> ideally I'd want to switch to classic for 13.04 assuming it's all fixed once the new compiz lands
<jbicha> and are you aware that GNOME plans to kill Fallback, probably for GNOME 3.8?
<stgraber> (but keep unity as the default for desktop, just replace fallback by classic)
<stgraber> yeah, I heard of the plans and they suck but we can't do much about it...
<jbicha> and by killing, they mean removing support in gnome-settings-daemon and other places
<jbicha> I'm thinking Ubuntu will still with gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-control-center 3.6 next cycle so Classic may still be ok for 13.04
<jbicha> here's the meta bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682858
<ubottu> Gnome bug 682858 in general "[meta] Remove fallback support code" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<stgraber> yeah, at this point I'm trying to ignore what's going on with the desktop stuff and focus on the server side of things where things at least go on the right direction...
<stgraber> it looks like to me that gnome upstream is extremely successful at getting rid of their users, the problem is, I don't feel like shipping a second full desktop environment either, so I'm not sure what we'll end up shipping for 14.04...
<highvoltage> stgraber: is it normal behaviour that a language other than english prompts for folder name changes on first login?
<highvoltage> (seems a bit odd)
<highvoltage> (and I only got it on i386 (so far))
<stgraber> highvoltage: that part of nautilus/xdg-dirs is racy, we've seen a few reports where you get duplicate entries or badly translated ones, ...
<highvoltage> hmm, and it seems to be telling me that my langpack downloads are incomplete. perhaps that's part of it.
<highvoltage> oh and it popped up 3 more times, eish
<stgraber> oh, showing up multiple times is a first though :)
<highvoltage> is simplified chinese last one or second last item on the isolinux menu?
<stgraber> the one with the least strokes
<highvoltage> ok
<stgraber> I never remember the order, I just look for the "simple" one :)
<highvoltage> (it's the second-last one, ftr)
<highvoltage> stgraber: do those test cases get parsed by anything (I notice you added my name and date, I'll continue to do the same)
<stgraber> highvoltage: they get parsed by me when I'm tired, so properly aligned and following the format defined in the header is a good way of reducing my reading time ;)
<stgraber> 19:40 < stgraber> highvoltage: they get parsed by me when I'm tired, so properly aligned and following the format defined in the header is a good way of reducing my
<stgraber>                   reading time ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I got your message before my container died, at least :)
<stgraber> ok :)
<highvoltage> (I keep running into this strange bug where if my lxc package updates, half of my containers die, and then around 2 minutes later, the other half)
<highvoltage> (so I kind of knew it was coming as my irc session was in the second batch :p)
<alkisg> highvoltage: when creating the greek live CDs I noticed I had to run `locale-gen --purge` somewhere at the bottom of the process so that the chinese locales were removed and didn't cause the "langpack incomplete" prompts later on
<alkisg> Removing the pt or es locales works fine, but there's a bug somewhere in removing the chinese ones
<alkisg> And it's not cleanly removed, and locale-gen --purge is required etc etgc
<alkisg> `locale -a` after a non-chinese installation should demonstrate the problem....
<highvoltage> alkisg: maybe that has something to do with there being an ubuntu chinese edition where there's some specific stuff for that
<alkisg> Yeah it's special-cased in some areas of the installation process
<stgraber> highvoltage: doing greek amd64 in oem with encrypted home now
<highvoltage> I'm doing simplified chinese but just a straight install since I don't want to risk clicking on something and not knowing what it means
<highvoltage> (although chinese isn't as well translated as french)
 * alkisg won't even ask if the greek keyboard is working in 12.10, he's certain that it's still broken... :-/
<stgraber> highvoltage: can you borrow a machine for dvd testing on your side?
<stgraber> highvoltage: I can do usb testing but I don't have any drive or blank media here
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> I'll write it to DVD here and then install at home on mac mini / lg laptop
<stgraber> highvoltage: are you testing 20121017.1 at the moment? if so, can you also post results to iso.qa.ubuntu.com (no need for details, I just want to get the count roughly right)
<highvoltage> stgraber: yes, I synced right before testing
<highvoltage> will do
<stgraber> wow, it's always so weird to install in arabic...
<highvoltage> iso tracker seems a bit slow atm.
<stgraber> yeah, that usually happens around release... some results took over 30s to post here
<stgraber> I'll need to look at better indexing for a few fields
<highvoltage> what happens? does the db get hit real hard?
<highvoltage> or is it on a host with other stuff?
<stgraber> it's running on its own server (quadcore xeon). Seems like mostly IO bound and postgres not being properly tweaked
<stgraber> I have 5GB of free memory so it's a bit weird seeing the DB being so slow
<stgraber> I'd need to do some tweaks to postgres/apache but I first need to replicate the load issues on staging and then ask IS to update the config, so it takes time... :(
<stgraber> my current guess is that the query looking for bug history is taking quite long to parse the LP bug table and that I need some better indexes on that stuff
<stgraber> doh, yeah, found the problem, the LP bug table isn't indexed by bugnumber...
<stgraber> highvoltage: added the index, you should see a huge speed difference
<highvoltage> stgraber: cool
<stgraber> just testing wubi on i386 then will mark that one as ready too
<stgraber> and then will go to bed :)
#edubuntu 2012-10-18
* stgraber changed the topic of #edubuntu to: Edubuntu 12.10 is out! - http://www.edubuntu.org | When asking questions, hang around for a bit, we're not always at our computers :) | Try WebLive! http://edubuntu.org/weblive | Help out with bugs: http://tinyurl.com/EduBugs | LTSP questions? also try #ltsp | Welcome to the playground, have lots of fun and behave yourself!
<skaet> stgraber, highvoltage, and rest of edubuntu team,  congrats on getting Edubuntu 12.10 released!  :)
<highvoltage> thanks skaet
<highvoltage> skaet: and congrats on getting all of ubuntu out :)
<skaet> :)
#edubuntu 2012-10-19
<bkerensa> need moar Edubuntu seeders
<bkerensa> :D
#edubuntu 2012-10-20
<josuemg> Boa noite
<josuemg> Preciso sanar uma dÃºvida sobre uso de Thin clients num servidor instalado o Edubuntu 12.04
<dplord> hello
<dplord> is anyone here?
#edubuntu 2012-10-21
<xrs1> the website is terrible guys! If i didn't know any better; I'd run!
#edubuntu 2013-10-14
<stgraber> highvoltage: got any edubuntu time this week for release?
<stgraber> highvoltage: I've just tested the live session on amd64, translations are now fine, ltsp-live works as expected, the installer looks fine and I don't see any remote content in unity
<stgraber> so all of our final beta bugs appear to have been solved
<stgraber> now doing a standard install, then doing the same thing with Chinese on i386 and will try and run standard update tests too
<stgraber> I'm doing all that today since it's a public holiday here, then will mostly do Ubuntu stuff the rest of the week
<stgraber> highvoltage: btw, I really like the new Edubuntu wallpaper!
<stgraber> and install works fine including LTSP
<stgraber> we still have that problem where the system doesn't reboot properly post-install though but I think I've got an idea as to what's going on there, will see if I'm right and if I am, I'll update edubuntu-live to fix that one for good
<highvoltage> stgraber: yep, will have some time. bandwidth is a greate issue since I moved and waiting for my dsl to come along. but I guess rsync on 3g won't be /too/ heavy
<highvoltage> stgraber: and... nice :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: oops, looks like we've got an issue with edubuntu_default (the wallpaper)
<stgraber> we're currently shipping a 0 byte .png and a .jpg that's the symlink
<stgraber> ubiquity loads the .png and so do some older installs
<stgraber> so those result in either crash or black screen
<stgraber> I'll see if just making the .jpg a symlink is enough
<stgraber> fix uploaded
#edubuntu 2013-10-15
<samurai2> hi there,
<samurai2> Is there a command in ubuntu so that I can add a line to a .conf file if it's not existed yet?
<samurai2> echo "hello" >> my_file.conf
<samurai2> but it will keep adding hello to the new line
<samurai2> thanks :)
<stgraber> [ ! -e "$my_file.conf" ] && echo "hello" > my_file.conf
<samurai2> stgraber : thanks for the answer, but it's replacing the whole file not adding a new line.
<stgraber> just >> then
<stgraber> well, I guess you actually want:
<stgraber> grep "^hello$" my_file.conf -q && echo "hello" >> my_file.conf
<stgraber> hmm, that's wrong, I meant: grep "^hello$" my_file.conf -q || echo "hello" >> my_file.conf
<stgraber> which will only append hello to the file if it's not already in there
<samurai2> stgraber : thanks, it's worked now. :D
<samurai2> Hi how to find a line with a word such as #*.*   localhost
<samurai2> where we don't care about how many space between #*.*   localhost
<samurai2> thanks
<stgraber> highvoltage: new Edubuntu image available for testing
<stgraber> highvoltage: FWIW I tested 14.1 yesterday and it looked reasonably good
<stgraber> highvoltage: we still have the weird issue where Unity starts when using flashback with compiz but I doubt we'll get that resolved by release
<undead_rat> I'm trying to install edubuntu with wubi, but it kept failing out at distro checks; first it was unable to locate the vmlinuz (because it had a .efi extention, rebuilt the iso to fix that) and now it's failing because 12.04.03 != 12.04.02; where should I change the 03 to 02 at?
#edubuntu 2013-10-16
<computerwizjared> is there an edubuntu server?
<stgraber> highvoltage: almost done testing what will hopefully be final images, can I let you deal with the website?
<computerwizjared> oh yes sorry i was working on something else
<computerwizjared> stgraber?
#edubuntu 2013-10-17
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm done with all the tests on my side. Did a dozen installs in VMs and two installs on hardware. Did all the upgrade testing too. 13.10 seems surprisingly good (considering how little work we put in it ;))
<stgraber> highvoltage: I pushed all my results to the tracker but didn't mark anything as ready yet, feel free to do so if you think we're good, otherwise I'll sign-off tomorrow when I'm back online
<stgraber> highvoltage: would be great if you could take care of the release announcement on the website and update the various pages. I'll try and pick up anything left tomorrow hoping we won't have any last minute issue on the Ubuntu side.
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, will do
<highvoltage> eek, I just realised that I read the schedule wrong and release is today and not on the 25th
<highvoltage> (have a big day today but will still fit it ine)
<samurai2> hi there, I tried following command but it always said unknown option to 's'
<samurai2> sed -e "$LINE_NUM s/.*/'"$REPLACE_WORDS"'/" "$FILE_NAME"
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
* stgraber changed the topic of #edubuntu to: Edubuntu 13.10 is out! - http://www.edubuntu.org | When asking questions, hang around for a bit, we're not always at our computers :) | Help out with bugs: http://tinyurl.com/EduBugs | LTSP questions? also try #ltsp | Welcome to the playground, have lots of fun and behave yourself!
<stgraber> highvoltage: updated the website and pushed an announcement out on the frontpage, it's not great but at least we have something...
<highvoltage> stgraber: thanks so much. we had a teambuilding today and I thought I was going to have a chance to break away for that but only got home a few minutes ago
#edubuntu 2013-10-18
<samurai2> hi there, can I configure rsyslog to forward the log message using both UDP and TCP protocol such as
<samurai2> on rsyslog.conf I put as following :
<samurai2> *.*    @localhost:514
<samurai2> *.*        @@localhost:5140
<samurai2> thanks :)
<dwreck> So I just installed Ubuntu after having issues with Fedora and the I am having the same problem.  I can't access certain secure websites.  Gmail, facebook. Amazon, etc... Has anyone ever experienced this before?
#edubuntu 2013-10-19
<MellySquire_> hi guys
<MellySquire_> any idea how to register an edubuntu pc to a debian ldap?
<MellySquire_> so each computer will have to log into the debian domain?
<highvoltage> Me<tab>
#edubuntu 2013-10-20
<stgraber> highvoltage: almost done implementing an unpack/repacker for the dnsRecord field in edubuntu-server, after that adding DNS management support should be quite easy
<stgraber> (that dnsRecord struct is ridiculously complex and finding the MS documentation for it was a real pain...)
#edubuntu 2014-10-17
<eerste> Trying to install edub 14.04.1 from dvd in Dutch. Installation stalled several times almost at the end with a CRON CMD ( cd / && run-parts --report)  /etc/cron.hourly ) Any idea to get it to finish?
#edubuntu 2015-10-13
<Burps> Hello : I'd like to install edubuntu on a box, but during the install, I'd like to change the mirror to a local repo : is that possible ?
#edubuntu 2016-10-20
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (zesty-proposed/main) [2.4.1-0ubuntu1 => 2.4.1-0ubuntu2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-10-16
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: edubuntu-docs (artful-proposed/universe) [11.03.2 => 11.03.3] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: accepted edubuntu-docs [source] (artful-proposed) [11.03.3]
#edubuntu 2017-10-19
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [17.1-18-gd4f70470-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 17.1-18-gd4f70470-0ubuntu1~16.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [17.1-18-gd4f70470-0ubuntu1~17.04.1 => 17.1-18-gd4f70470-0ubuntu1~17.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-10-22
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: indicator-printers (artful-proposed/universe) [0.1.7+17.04.20170227-0ubuntu3 => 0.1.7+17.10.20171021-0ubuntu1] (edubuntu) (sync)
#edubuntu 2018-10-16
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-applets (cosmic-proposed/universe) [3.30.0-1 => 3.30.0-1build1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: indicator-applet (cosmic-proposed/universe) [12.10.2+17.10.20170425-0ubuntu1 => 12.10.2+17.10.20170425-0ubuntu2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
#edubuntu 2018-10-17
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [18.4-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 18.4-0ubuntu1~16.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2019-10-14
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: golang-gopkg-lxc-go-lxc.v2 (eoan-proposed/universe) [0.0~git20190625.f4822c6-0ubuntu1 => 0.0+git20190625.f4822c6-1ubuntu1] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2019-10-15
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (bionic-proposed/main) [2:10.3.10-1~ubuntu0.18.04.1 => 2:10.3.10-1~ubuntu0.18.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (disco-proposed/main) [2:10.3.10-1 => 2:10.3.10-1ubuntu0.19.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2019-10-18
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: python-regex (focal-proposed/universe) [0.1.20190207-1 => 0.1.20190207-1build1] (edubuntu, ubuntustudio)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lightdm (focal-proposed/universe) [1.30.0-0ubuntu1 => 1.30.0-0ubuntu2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie, ubuntu-mate, ubuntukylin, ubuntustudio, xubuntu)
#edubuntu 2019-10-19
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: python-apsw (focal-proposed/universe) [3.28.0-r1-1build1 => 3.28.0-r1-1ubuntu1] (edubuntu, ubuntustudio)
#edubuntu 2019-10-20
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: python-gevent (focal-proposed/universe) [1.3.7-1build1 => 1.3.7-1build2] (edubuntu)
