#ubuntu-doc 2005-02-28
<falco> hi
<falco> any of you can tell-me who is the author of rosetta?
<falco> tell me
<falco> enrico: ?
<falco> sivang: ?
<sivang> falco: yes
<sivang> what's up falco ?
<falco> I would like to know who is the creator of rosetta portal
<falco> there's people who would like to deploy it for other projects
<sivang> they would be able to do that when launchpad is ready, I don't think this can be done now.
<falco> ok
<falco> thanks
<falco> :)
<sivang> no prob :)
<enrico> falco: hello!
<enrico> falco: the Rosetta guy is Dafydd Harries
<enrico> just in case you want to ask him anyway
<falco> thanks
<falco> :)
<sivang> falco: ah right, his nickname is "daf"
<falco> thanks again
<falco> :)
<sivang> hey enrico , what' sup??
<enrico> hi
<enrico> working working working...
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-01
<sivang> enrico: about what?
<enrico> at the moment I'm building a multimedia repository for an alternative news agency
<enrico> how're you doing?
<sivang> enrico: do you know where is plovs ?
<sivang> I havn't seen him in here for ages
* falco http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/children/kidtalk.mspx
<falco> try not to laught to loud
<sivang> hehe
<enrico> sivang: no idea: he disappeared
<enrico> I sent him some mail, he never answered
<enrico> OMG, that M$ page was bad
<sivang> yeah :)
<sivang> just disappeared like this?
<sivang> man
<enrico> no idea: maybe he's busy somewhere
<enrico> On this topic: he was taking care of the FAQGuide, but now the FAQGuide, docteam-wise has no maintainer
<enrico> Now, I don't even know if the FAQGuide applies to Warty or Hoary, let alone if it's updated or not :(
<sivang> bah
<sivang> seems like we're going nowhere good with docteam latelt, what about froud?
<enrico> froud he's alive and kicking!
<enrico> the docs have been packaged and 3 new people showed up recently
<enrico> things are not too bad, after all
<enrico> although I wouldn't say we're stable
<enrico> BTW, since you run hoary, how about doing some proofreading of the QuickGuide or the FAQGuide?
<sivang> should it be installed here already?
<enrico> You svn up the repository and fakeroot debian/rules binary to get the packages
<enrico> sivang: got it?
<sivang> enrico: yep, I may give it a read today or tommorow :)
<enrico> sivang: that'd be great!  It's particularly important to test it against the distro itself, to make sure we don't have perfectly written documents that explain something wrong :)
<sivang> enrico: btw, which one of them is the quickest? the quickguide?
<sivang> so froud is still with us?
<sivang> btw, did you talk to chrish by any chance?
<enrico> chrish yes, I talked with him and he told me he's busy these days
<enrico> froud's still with us: we did the .deb packaging together
<enrico> quickest seems to be the quickguide
<enrico> it should also be more fun.  If the quickguide is not fun, report it as a bug! 
<sivang> ok cool
* enrico goes having dinner
<enrico> sivang: thanks!
<sivang> me too, ttl :)
<abelli> ciao a tuttti
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-02
<froud> African greetings
<maskie> morning froud how you
<froud> morning maskie, fine thanks and yourself
<maskie> i am fine ... weather is just not that nice down here today ... 
<froud> Great morining here in JHB, not much Sun, but not cold
<froud> BTW, I will be in Cape Town next week, from 23  - 26
<froud> hoping for good weather
<froud> first time in Cape Town
<maskie> we had great weather the last week and think it will be the same again the coming week 
<maskie> were will you be
<froud> I will be staying in Bishops Court
<froud> I have meetings in Mowbray and Stellenbosh
<maskie> not a bad place to stay at all 
<froud> Some B&B in the countryside
<maskie> on the other side of the city from me
<froud> where are you?
<maskie> do not think there is much countryside there
<maskie> northern suburbs ... durbanville/bellville area
<froud> countryside, a large estate, perhaps?
<maskie> all the property in bishops court is massive ... all are large estates .. it is the most upmarket area in cape town
<froud> Dunno exact details as I did not make the booking, but the pictures look green :-)
<froud> Ah, Ha
<froud> that explains it then
* froud is clueless about Cape Town
<maskie> know mark thatcher ... well he just sold his house there for 20 million
<froud> Yes he must pay mommy back :-)
<froud> Poor Margret
<maskie> true ... but then i suppose he can affort it
<froud> 20 million, my home in JHB Northclif is worth 1.5 Million and I thought that was allot
<maskie> i stay in sabdfl country ... were in northcliff do you stay .. high up on the ridge
<froud> I wonder if he will ever be aloud to come back
<froud> I mean his wife and kids left in a hurry
<maskie> i am sure he will ... he is here often ...
<maskie> he say that he is busy looking for another house here
<froud> feel sorry for the kids having to leave school and stuff
<froud> but will the gov let him  back
<maskie> i am sure ... he was in court yesterday again and answered all their questions and then said he is staying
<froud> I dunno, but the whole mercenary story is a bit fishy if you ask me
<froud> za and zim gov know more than they let on
<maskie> i also think so ... but i think he made a deal with the gov when he pleaded guilty and paid the 3 mill
<froud> yes, what I would do to be a fly on the wall
<froud> did you see that telkom is taking Helkom to crt
<froud> Should be an interesting case
<froud> an Pres. Mbeki has also been criticising them
<froud> Maybe the pressure is starting
<froud> any clug stuff on in CT or will everyone be up in JHB for the LPI exams?
<maskie> yes .. the helkom thing is coming a long time already ... i think telkom though that helkom is going to cave in which they did not
<maskie> have no idea ... the clug scene down here is not that lifely
<froud> Yep. just the same up here
<froud> but I think many from CT are comming to JHB to do LPI exams over the period I will be down there
<froud> See Alan from AfriBiz is on Front Page of Computing SA
<froud> Good for him, he has worked so hard
<maskie> yes he has done a lot .. partular when the ICANN meeting was held down here in december
<froud> Good bloke, we will be partnering this year
<froud> working on using Ubuntu from training GNU/Linux
<froud> from = for
<maskie> good .... you have your own company right
<froud> always self employed. 
<froud> :-) Don't get rich working for somebody else
<maskie> same here ... not always the same thing
<maskie> same = easy
<froud> No, it's not easy. But it was, everyone would be doing it
<maskie> agree ....
<froud> I have a few companies now
<froud> 2 in the tech sector and 3 in real-estate
<maskie> what do you do in real-estate
<froud> Investment, sometimes buy-to-let, sometimes buy and sell, sometimes developments
<maskie> ok ...
<froud> but interest rate is to low for buy-to-let now
<froud> so buying comercial prop
<maskie> yes agree ... our next donald trump ... lol
<froud> he, he, just bought and old kresh near cresta for 200K
<froud> what a bragain
<froud> now I am opening a child care business
<froud> :-)
<maskie> that sound cheap
<maskie> all your own children :)
<froud> It is, it should be worth 400
<froud> yes I do have three, but no not for my children
<froud> should be interesting I never owned a kindergarten before
<maskie> child care is not the easiest thing to run .. probably a lot of regulations
<froud> fortunately I dont run them, I get management, they get staff I just give the investment
<maskie> just make sure the management is good
<froud> two business secrets: 1. process, 2. management
<froud> get the process right and get the management who will keep to it
<maskie> yes agree
<froud> Luckily I    don't spend much time in that side. My side is the technology companies
<maskie> but it is good to be diversified
<froud> After 2000 I was gonna giveup tech, but it's in my blood, I just can't do it
<maskie> once a techie always a techie :)
<froud> yes, diversified is always good
<froud> adict :-)
<maskie> currently most of my working day is spend managing but i always come back and get my hands dirty with development stuff
<froud> Neo always goes back to the src
<froud> aaaargh! we're stuck in the matrix
<maskie> yes ... 
<froud> we're kept in check by the program smith
<froud> was looking for smith
<froud> pin smith: 
<froud> pin smith: grepping /var/lib/pin/ARCHIVES.gz ... please wait
<froud> pin smith: 
<froud> pin smith: pin 0.30 - package info for smith
<froud> pin smith: 
<froud> pin smith: ------------------------------------------------------------------
<froud> pin smith: *** no rpm named smith installed
<froud> pin smith: ------------------------------------------------------------------
<froud> pin smith: 
<froud> pin smith: 
<froud> pin smith: ------------------------------------------------------------------
<froud> pin smith: *** zgrep smith /var/lib/pin/ARCHIVES.gz
<froud> pin smith: ------------------------------------------------------------------
<froud> pin smith: 
<froud> pin smith: 
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-fonts-cyrillic-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/make-3.80-186.i586.rpm:        Paul Smith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-server-glx-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-Xvnc-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/cpp-3.3.4-11.i586.rpm:        Danny Smith <dannysmith@users.sourceforge.net>
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/coreutils-5.2.1-32.i586.rpm:        Randy Smith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-fonts-scalable-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-fonts-75dpi-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-libs-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-Mesa-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/vim-6.3-7.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root             1195 Oct  5 02:44 /usr/share/vim/vim63/syntax/smith.vim
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-server-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD2/suse/i586/avifile-0.7.38-212.i586.rpm:        Eugene Smith <divx@euro.ru>
<froud> pin smith: ./CD2/suse/i586/vorbis-tools-1.0.1-88.i586.rpm:        Michael Smith <msmith@labyrinth.net.au>
<froud> pin smith: ./CD2/suse/i586/gnome-themes-2.6.1-34.i586.rpm:        Suzanna Smith <suzanna.smith@sun.com>
<froud> pin smith: ./CD2/suse/i586/gabber-0.8.7-745.i586.rpm:        Dave "DizzyD" Smith <dave@jabber.org>
<froud> pin smith: ./CD3/suse/i586/gcc-3.3.4-11.i586.rpm:        Danny Smith <dannysmith@users.sourceforge.net>
<froud> pin smith: ./CD3/suse/i586/xorg-x11-devel-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
<froud> pin smith: ./CD4/suse/i586/lincity-1.12.0-67.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root              881 Oct  5 01:56 /usr/share/lincity/help/blacksmith.hlp
<froud> pin smith: ./CD4/suse/i586/lincity-1.12.0-67.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root              256 Oct  5 01:56 /usr/share/lincity/icons/blacksmith-button.csi
<froud> pin smith: ./CD4/suse/i586/lincity-1.12.0-67.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root             1024 Oct  5 01:56 /usr/share/lincity/icons/blacksmith0.csi
<froud> pin smith: ./CD4/suse/i586/lincity-1.12.0-67.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root             1024 Oct  5 01:56 /usr/share/lincity/icons/blacksmith1.csi
<froud> pin smith: ./CD4/suse/i586/lincity-1.12.0-67.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root             1024 Oct  5 01:56 /usr/share/lincity/icons/blacksmith2.csi
<froud> Hmm, interesting. each time I use that feature in Konversation, I get " Connection to Server irc.freenode.net lost."
<froud> Well I guess it is a flood
<froud> It does the same thing in private channels
<froud> I wonder why they developed it
<maskie> it was .. see it was all suse stuff ... you not running ubuntu
<froud> I have Ubuntu Hoary running on seperate box
<froud> :-) But SuSE is my darling
<froud> I want KDE
<maskie> i see novell is busy with a road show here in sa
<froud> so I installed a KDE on Ubuntu
<froud> yes, 2nd of March
<froud> her ein JHB
<maskie> 1st of march here in cape town
<froud> He he they will be busy
<maskie> how is kde on ubuntu .. imagine lots of rough edges
<maskie> it is at a hotel here i have never heard off ... must still go find the place
<froud> It was a mind bender getting it to work and I just cant get it stable
<maskie> hopefully they will give out some suse 9.2 cd's
<froud> So I have a disk for kubuntu and a disk for GNOME
<froud> I the CDs early ;-)
<froud> I get
<maskie> nice
<maskie> with my connection speed it is not worthwhile download the stuff
<froud> yeah, it helps to do work for them. But I wish they had better budgets here in ZA :-)
<froud> If you want I will get you a copy and post it to you.
<froud> Or better, I can make a copy and meet you between 23 -26
<froud> Any other distro's you want
<maskie> not to worry ... have  not got that many spare space to install it anyway at the moment
<froud> I solved that problem by using removable HDD
<froud> Now I have eight HDD's
<froud> All for one machine
<maskie> with the cheap cost of hard drives it is a good idea
<froud> pull it out and zip a new one in, press the button and I have a new machine, yes very cheap and if you shop around you will find many reasonably sized disks going for duch food
<maskie> yes ... is suse your primary os
<froud> Sure, since 8.0
<froud> stable and reliable
<froud> However, Ubuntu is growing on me :-)
<maskie> unfortunately i have to run windows a lot of the time since the companies i work with is mostly windows based
<froud> I am working on a Hoary via VNC, perhaps you can work on Windows the same way :-)
<maskie> yes suppose that will work ...
<froud> I have the same problem. Companies use Windows for many of the projects I do. So I just use those removable HDDs and VNC
<froud> But geeze, I am starting to forget how to use Windows :-)
<froud> Went to a GLUG meeting and asked how many people are actually using a GNU/Linux Desktop. 3 out of 10 people said they use Linux. All the rest used Windows :-)
<maskie> i try to use product on widows which is also available on linux like openoffice, thunderbird, firefox ect so it makes things a bit easier
<froud> Hey, I must goo. Nice chatting with you again. B c'ing ya. Let me know ifyou want distro's I still have a few warty CD's if you are interested.
<maskie> i have also have some still so it is ok ...
<froud> I plan on taking them to CT to give them away
<froud> ok bye
<maskie> cheers
<unifi> Just for everyone's information... warty does not install with the shuttle G4 case
<froud> unifi: which system? 8500G
<unifi> ST61G4B
<unifi> I tried to install it for 2 days 
<unifi> and it would hang at the x86 free
<froud> where does it fail? NVidia
<unifi> no setting up xserver
<froud> Have you tried it with Hoary?
<unifi> yes that is what worked
<froud> the x.org is good
<unifi> oh ok
<unifi> well now I am having usb detection problems
<unifi> any suggestions on that side?
<froud> The kernel modules installed?
<unifi> sorry a bit of a newbie... kernel modules?
<froud> the new grepmap stuff has worked on oall my test boxes
<froud> which kernel did you use, the default one or a custom
<froud> the default one has what you need
<froud> otherwise check your BIOS settings
<unifi> hmmm I just downloaded the latest hoary
<unifi> and that seemed to work
<froud> then you used the default
<froud> everything cool user the BIOS?
<unifi> one other problem now is that tat when restarting the computer freezes up at starting hotplug system
<unifi> I think so..
<unifi> seems like it
<froud> go into BIOS and switch off ACPI. It's the source of many problems
<froud> you can also try boot with option linux acpi=off
<unifi> sorry for my newbieness... what is acpi?
<unifi> waht does that do?
<froud> acpi is the power control system
<froud> I had to tun it off to get hoary to work
<froud> well not hoary, but warty
<froud> however, I noticed similar problems on hoary when I re enabled it
<froud> acpi is a problem on most distros
<froud> unifi: r u gonna contribute to the docs. we could use some help?
<froud> :-)
<unifi> ha I would love to
<froud> cool, where would you like to start?
<unifi> where can I start?
* froud must go. being called to eat dinner.
<unifi> well if I can figure out my usb problem
<unifi> ok
<froud> We are currently working on the Quick Guide
<froud> When you are ready checkout http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeam
<abelli> does someone of you ppl know, if libdvdcss is illegal in europe?
<enrico> abelli: depends on which state
<abelli> italy, uk, france, spain, germany
<abelli> i thought we were one
<abelli> i mean im not paying an icecream, 2 euros while before were about 1500 lire, for nothing
<abelli> s/were/was
<enrico> abelli: you pay that more so that the police is more efficient to check you
<abelli> ahh..
<abelli> but what if you read on the newspaper, as i did today,
<abelli> that tim has run out of slots in Amanda 
<abelli> [the new interception thing] 
<abelli> because the police tried to intercept calls coming from more than the 5000 allowed
<enrico> then it means that the price of icecreams is going to go up again
<abelli> but i really think that price(amanda)<price(totalslots)-price(5000slots)
<abelli> so someone is tricking me: i want my money back, or just more icecream next time im going to have one
<abelli> enrico: so is it illegal in italy?
<enrico> abelli: yes
<abelli> why?
<enrico> abelli: any circumventing of any protection device is
<enrico> abelli: you can't open a door even if it's unlocked, because that's intended to be a protection device
<abelli> mmm... my xbox is not illegal?!
<abelli> well... lets make it clear I DIDNT PAY IT...
<abelli> they were broken and we just recovered the situation
<abelli> enrico: are you sure?
<enrico> abelli: italian reception of EUCD.  It's also illegal to explain how to circumvent things, so crypto course are kind of controversial now
<abelli> they teach reverse engineering at the university..
<abelli> oohhhh..
<abelli> my...
<enrico> crypto teaches how to make codes and how to break them
<enrico> if you can't break them, you can't make them
<abelli> so if my girlfriend writes "protection devices" on her panties...mmm..
<enrico> eh
<enrico> But if they are jeans, you can rape her
<abelli> yeah.. i remember it..
<abelli> but what if it, as she normally do, wear them underneath jeans
<abelli> *s
<abelli> s/it /she/
<abelli> ...lots of mistakes
<froud> enrico: I have finished for today. I think I updated the status of all nodes. I managed to add some new texts and review the texts from Jeff.
<enrico> froud: oh, cool!
<enrico> I'm building a new tarball for Mako
<froud> cool, still not automated hey;-)
<enrico> eh
<froud> OK bye
<froud>  c ya tomorrow
<enrico> EHI
<enrico> why is that blue on orange??
<froud> I want to close this thing best we can before freeze. I will be away 23 -26
<froud> just testing toys
<enrico> cute :)
<abelli> froud: sup yo?
<froud>  will be in Capte Town from 23 - 26 a bit of business and a break :-)
<froud> abelli: you stil alive
<abelli> froud: not sure
<froud> how's mamma and pappa :-)
<abelli> well mamma is ok
<abelli> and i had steak and vegetables tonite
<froud> ah and papa is also happy
<abelli> yeah, or so it seems
* froud had pork chops
* froud loves pork chops cause of the crackling (skin)
* froud starts salivating and dribbles down the front of his shirt and into the keyboard
<froud> abelli try something for me
<froud> add '' to the start of a line
<froud> oops
<froud> how to escape in irc
<froud> \
<abelli> ''sup
<abelli> \'' sup
<enrico> \cippolippo abc
<froud>  ok do % then C2 then comma the 13
<froud> then write some text
<abelli> %c2,13
<froud> C not c
<abelli> %c2,13 cippo lippo
<abelli> %C2,13 cippo lippo
<enrico> \e asfd
<froud> Hmm I dont see colors
<enrico> [c2,13m
<froud> You run irssi v0.8.10-rc5 - running on Linux i686
<froud> does it enable IRC colors
<abelli> no idea
<abelli> but yes
<abelli> i can see your broken-pink writings
<froud>  cool I am just playing with all the new stuff in Konversat
<abelli> KDE is not allowed in here 
<froud>  wicked IRC colors
<froud> KDE rules
<abelli> roooarrrrr
<froud> woof
<abelli> everybuddy jumping
<froud> somebody needs to invent Paper, Rock, Scissors for IRC
<abelli> is just the sound a particular kind of animal
<abelli> wow... so you have it?
<froud> that way we will have a way to settle our differences
<froud> :-)
<abelli> who's the cheeky unemployed who translated it
<froud> Oh is there such a thing
<abelli> yes
<froud> where can I get it
<abelli> we can also "bim bum bam" if you want
<froud> we need to install it here
<froud> bim = ?
<abelli> do you mean a script..
<abelli> ok... we can do it...
<froud> yes
<abelli> in Ruby [<=Kinnison  obviously] 
<froud> great fun in deciding who is the winner
<froud> KDE or GNOME
<abelli> if only our master and only lord enrico allows it
<abelli> no no..
<abelli> at most gnome or Ion 
<abelli> or gnome or blackbox
<froud> he who must be obeyed
<froud> he he konversation has a url catcher
<froud> it catches URLs in the channel in a new window
<froud> cool
<froud> and it now has a remember line
<froud> it inserts a colored line in the channel so you can remember a spot
<abelli> Konversation is B0rk3d... 
<abelli> does it remind you about this
<abelli> ?
<froud> what is B0rk3d.
<abelli> Konversation
<abelli> ..
<abelli> borked
<froud> borked
* froud looks confused
<froud> he he auto spell check too
<abelli> its normal when you use kde
<froud> cool
<froud> yep kde rocks so configurable 
<abelli> mmm.. yeah with all those useless utilities:)
<froud> and XIM input method
<abelli> obviously the great invention after the lighter
<froud> I love my computer I like to make her look beautiful
<froud> KDE got the look
<abelli> even enlightment..
<abelli> xfce..
<abelli> and gnome obviously
<froud> Oneday ubuntu will ascend to the point where it has KDE :-)
<froud> KDM is fine thanks
<abelli> oneday, berlusconi will be italian prime minister...
<abelli> ooops he already is
<abelli> something must be really wrong
<froud> gimme a K (K), gimme a D (D), gimme a E (E). What do ya got? K D E
<froud> b c'ing ya
<abelli> this is so so so so wrong
<froud> jealously gets you nowhere, coming to KDE does :-)
<abelli> back in the 90s?
<froud> I must go, nice chatting non-sense with you again. keep well
<abelli> with windows 95
<abelli> ?
<abelli> froud: all the best to you
<abelli> ciao
<froud> welcome to the future, with KDE
<abelli> ehehe..
<abelli> welcome back to the future, with KDE
<abelli> date: january 21th, 1887
<enrico> children... be good... this channel has a public log... :)
<abelli> sorry Lord
<abelli> have a good life until we catch up again
<abelli> im off ciao
<abelli> And the only sound thats left
<abelli> After the ambulances go
<abelli> Is cinderella sweeping up
<abelli> On desolation row
<sivang> enrico: Hi!
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-03
<froud> African greeting. Wet, wet, wet in Johannesburg
<maskie> dry dry dry in cape town and on my way to the beach
<abelli> so unfair..
<froud> lucky bugger :-)
<abelli> its snowy here
* froud hates the snow
<maskie> ah well ... the wind is not even blowing ... and that say something for cpt
<froud> hope the weather holds for me. only a few days till I get to Cape town
<abelli> cpt=cape town?!
<maskie> abelli, yes
<froud> They say this time of year is the best time to visit Cape town
<maskie> froud, it should .. just bring us some of that rain ... 
<maskie> yes it is .... 
<abelli> are you both in Cpt Lug?
<maskie> only i am so lucky ... froud is in jhb
<froud> abelli: if you mean am I subscribed, yes I am. Have I been to a CLUG meet, no
<froud> maskie: why?
<maskie> lucky about the cpt part ... 
<froud> So which beach you off too, the nudist beach, what's its name?
<maskie> sandy bay and no .... of to melkbosstrand on the west coast
<abelli> maskie, why dont we make a cultural exchange between btlug and clug?
<abelli> i take the sun, you take the snow
<abelli> if you do like skying it's the best place in the world
<abelli> ...actually i dont
<froud> abelli: no way dude, za would not be za
<maskie> i like my sun ... snow is fine for a week a year when i want to go skiing
<abelli> in fact
<abelli> you come here for i week..
<froud> Afrikaans is such an expressive language milkbushbeach :-)
<abelli> wooza
<froud> woza lapa
<abelli> i cant go further
<abelli> sorry
<abelli> ..mm.. ok woza, not wooza
<maskie> froud ... yes it is ... i am out of here ... beach is waiting ....
<abelli> maskie: ciao
<froud> chow
<maskie> bye
<abelli> ..i come there for a month
<abelli> froud: chow? is it a new kind of us missile?
* froud pull the chair closer to the keyboard and stretches for the fresh cup of hot coffee.
<abelli> froud: za coffee?!
<froud> Yeap :-)    Hey, I am going back to hacking the prose
<froud> the quick guide needs love
<froud> abelli: svn up and do some work on Quick Guide
<froud> it's getting close to the 21
<abelli> mmm... good luck..
<abelli> im going back to capacitors to
<abelli> o
<froud> cummon dude lend a hand here, capacitors are boring
<abelli> yeah.. but if i do not pass exams..
<abelli> i won't make my way through winter safe n sound
* froud remembers learning stuff like Ohms and Kerchoffs Laws a long time ago
<abelli> kirchoff
<abelli> KCL, KVL, Thevenin, 
<abelli> Norton..
<froud> Ah yes, those dudes too.
<froud> Engineering school seems so far away in the past. I must be getting old
<abelli> are you an engineer=
<abelli> =
<abelli> ?
<froud> yes
<abelli> what kind?
<froud> that's my background
<froud> but I gave up on pulling wire long time ago
<abelli> electrical?
<froud> now I just explain how things work :-)
<froud> yes electrical
<abelli> my "electrotechnics" [<= is this inglisch]  teacher, uses to say
<abelli> "electronic engineers use voltages like 0.6 V..
<froud> It helps to be technical when you are a writer, especially when you write on technical subjects
<froud> electronics
<abelli> we electrican ones deal with 10.000V... and that kills
<abelli> ".
<abelli> she's a poet
<abelli> mmm.. no ... i meant
<froud> Yes, I did electronics basics, but chose Heavy Current
<froud> I liked the shhhhhock of it
<abelli> electrotechnics
<froud> I guess it can be a term
<abelli> ive got an exam [electrotechnics]  on thursday
<abelli> and something about economy on friday..
<abelli> : i need to study
<froud> enjoy, boy am I glad I dont have to do exams anymore
<froud> doesn't mean I dont study
<froud> c ya
<abelli> icoa
<abelli> oaic
<abelli> ciao
* froud has to go for a few minutes. If Liz appears keep her here and try help her to get going. I will return soon.
<Liz> froud?
* Liz nudges froud
* Liz sits patiently to wait
<froud> Liz: 
<froud> hi
<froud> sorry I had to go out unexpectedly 
<froud> Liz: so what's got you stuck?
<enrico> hi Liz!
* froud waves to enrico 
* enrico waves at froud
<froud> Liz: we're here to help so let's get started
<froud> oh dear, I guess Liz is preoccupied with something else
<Liz> hehe
<Liz> im here..i wandered off to play nethack
<Liz> for a change i havent died yet
<enrico> Liz: you need to teach me about that!
<Liz> hehe
<froud> Me 2
<enrico> (maybe this is not documentation related)
<Liz> its pretty good..but if you stop playing it..or die..you gotta start again
<Liz> its not..but anyway
<Liz> its 12.39am here
<froud> so Liz what's got you stuck on the docs
<enrico> but I tried some variant of it, and I thought that was not just really a rpg
<Liz> how do i get them?
<Liz> the docs that is
<Liz> i tried that sv thing..i get an error
<froud> what error
<froud> let's start by typing svn [enter] 
<Liz> command not found
<enrico> sudo apt-get install subversion
<froud> ok you need to install subversion
<Liz> ok..installing 
<froud> cool let us know when it is finished. In the interim where do you want to have your working copy of the source
<froud> should be somewhere in /home/liz/
<froud> in a new terminal do cd   ~
<Liz> yep..thats cool with me..ill just make a folder for it first..so i can link it to my desktop
<froud> no
<froud> dont do that
<froud> is your present working directory your home folder
<Liz> yes
<froud> ok once subversion is installed
<froud> type svn
<froud> you should get 
<Liz> says svn help
<froud> cool
<froud> do svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos [ubuntu-docs] 
<froud> where [ubuntu-docs]     is the name of the folder you want
<Liz> what folder do i want?..
<Liz> what folder do i need?
<froud> just call it ubuntu-docs
<froud> do like this
<froud> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-docs
<froud> This will create a folder /ubuntu-docs/trunk inside which you will see it adding all the sources
<Liz> its asking about the certificate information...reject, accept, temporarily or accept permanently
<Liz> ill accept
<froud> accept
<Liz> ok..i got a list of things going here
<Liz> right now its up to images
<froud> cool it's adding (A) the files to the directory ubuntu-doc/trunk/ in your home folder
<froud> This is known as your Working Copy or WC for short
<Liz> so this is what i work with?..all these?
<froud> Yes, your working copy
<froud> don't worry if you break something it is ok
<Liz> but im assuming im not doing all of them...correct?
<Liz> i just work on little bits that i can..right?
<froud> you cant break the server repos
<froud> patience
<froud> has it finished
<Liz> nope..still on images
<froud> ok let's wait for it to finish, we will help you though the basics you need to know
<froud> when it is finished please do cd ubuntu-doc/trunk/
<Liz> ok..its just done takescreenshop.png
<Liz> still doing images
<froud> it will take a few minutes, the first time is the worst
<froud> it needs to get a mirror copy of everything in the repos
<Liz> yes..the pictures would be
<froud> after that it will only send and receive changes
<froud> so it becomes much easier
<froud> Liz: are you running Warty or Hoary
<Liz> warty..initially..but i upgraded my dist earlier this week.
<Liz> but it kinda screwed up a little
<Liz> so i had to go back to using some of the warty stuff
<froud> so you are now on Hoary
<Liz> actually..im not sure now
<Liz> wait..let me check
<Liz> warty..the amd kernel
<Liz> ok its done
<froud> ok now you cd into ubuntu-doc/trunk/
<Liz> i have revision 538
<Liz> i dont have a trunk directory in there
<froud> ok what do you have
<froud> just lots of files and folders right
<Liz> directories?..i have userguide
<Liz> quickguide
<Liz> libs
<froud> ok 
<Liz> images, housekeep, faqguide, debian, common, adminguide, abutbuntu
<Liz> sorry..thats abtubuntu
<Liz> and .svn
<froud> so your present working directory (pwd) is ubuntu-doc/
<Liz> yep
<froud> do svn up
<froud> I have commited a change
<Liz> 539
<froud> you will see it patch the quickguide
<froud> that's right
<froud> this is how you get the changes residing in the repos into your wc from now on
<Liz> cool...i see it
<froud> OK
<froud> now what text editor are you happy using
<froud> VIM
<Liz> gedit..
<Liz> or abiword
<Liz> i dont have alot of experience with vim
<Liz> but i can use it if need be
<froud> Ok
<froud> do gedit quickguide/quickguide.xml
<froud> this will open the quick guide xml src
<Liz> yep..looking at it now
<Liz> and the tages
<froud> OK that is Docbook XML you are looking at
<froud> Do you see the top bit colored pink
<Liz> you mean the <?xml version="1.0." encoding "UTF-8"?>
<froud> ok that is called the xml-declaration
<Liz> or the bit that says doctype book public ...blah
<froud> now this bit
<froud> <!DOCTYPE book PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN" 
<froud> 	"http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd" [
<froud> <!ENTITY % xinclude SYSTEM "../libs/xinclude.mod">
<Liz> ok..mines purple...but yeah, i de it
<froud> %xinclude;
<Liz> see it that is
<froud> <!ENTITY % globalent SYSTEM "../libs/global.ent">
<froud> %globalent;
<froud> ] >
<froud> this is called the Document Type Declaration
<froud> Basically it says that this xml file must conform to the rules of the Docbook DTD version 4.3
<froud> The document is a book
<froud> hence the root element is <book>
<froud> Scroll down slowly, reading the names of the xml elements
<Liz> what does it mean by this --->  <emphasis>FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT</emphasis>
<Liz> ok i get that it says fixme..but whats an XINCLUDE comment?
<froud> the elements are a semantic nomenclature that defines the role of the text
<froud> OK we have used a   standard called XInclude
<froud> <xi:include href="../userguide/about/chap-ubuntu.xml#xpointer(//para[@id='about1'] )"
<froud>                 xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">
<froud>                 <xi:fallback>
<froud>                     <para>
<froud>                         <emphasis>FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT</emphasis>
<Liz> yes..i see that bit just before the bit i pasted
<froud>                     </para>
<froud>                 </xi:fallback>
<froud>             </xi:include>
<froud> Basically this piece of code fetches a specific piece of text from another xml doc
<froud> if it does not find it the it outputs the message FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT
<froud> this way we know if all our XIncludes are working
<froud> if they are then this code will be replaced by the xml instance to which it is pointing
<froud> if not we see FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT
<Liz> ahhh..okie
<froud> OK I want you to edit some text. Find a para and type something
<Liz> anything?
<froud> anything
<froud> the big brown fox
<froud> just write it inside an existing  <para></para>
<froud> dont write a novell, just a few words :-)
<enrico> brb
<Liz> done
<froud> When you are done, save
<Liz> ok
<froud> now let's go back to that wicked terminal session
<Liz> i also corrected a typo..heh
<froud> you should still be in ubuntu-doc/
<Liz> ok..terminal window
<Liz> yep
<froud> cd quickguide/
<Liz> ok
<froud> svn diff quickguide.xml > quickguide.xml.diff
<froud> then do less quickguide.xml.diff
<froud> This is called a patch
<froud> it contains the changes you made
<Liz> yes..im seeing that
<froud> when you're finished looking at that press 'q' to exit
<froud> Ok you now know how to add text and create a patch
<froud> if you send me or enrico the patch we will apply it
<froud> after we have applied it you see it next time you do svn up
<Liz> so i send the whole file to you?
<Liz> or does it just make a little patch for that bit..and that sends to you ?
<froud> you would send just the file named quickguide.xml.diff
<Liz> i email the file?
<froud> yes, for now
<Liz> rightio
<Liz> one tick while i do that
<froud> we can then check the patch and add it to the repos
<froud> no not now
<froud> Do it in future when you are doing actual work
<Liz> ahh..ok..
<froud> OK let's say you did something wrong and you want to get back the version in the repos
<froud> just do svn revert quickguide.xml
<froud> This will eliminate all your changes in quickguide.xml and role the file back to the last known copy in the repos
<froud> Clear so far :-)
<Liz> yep..im taking notes as we speak
<froud> OK you can also log the conversation
<froud> Where to start work?
<Liz> yes i know..but i never do, cause im normally in too many irc channels 
<froud> I suggest that you do editing of current text
<Liz> hence..i take notes
<froud> ok
<froud> we use US Spelling
<froud> and punctuation
<enrico> Liz: if you want to make a wiki page with the notes, that could be very useful to others
<enrico> (or you can send the notes to me and I do the wiki page)
<Liz> ahh..im from new zealand..we normally use UK english
<froud> so a period go inside inverted comma's when the last work is like "this."
<Liz> last work??
<froud> If you are not sure use the dictionary installed on ubuntu
<froud> point it ast Websters
<froud> it at
<froud> what last work
<enrico> froud: you wrote 'when the last work is like "this."'
<Liz> <froud> so a period go inside inverted comma's when the last work is like "this."   <--last work..or do you mean last word?
<froud> oh my bad
<froud> last word
<Liz> ahh..ok
<froud> chicago manual of style will help you with this tuff
<Liz> ill try and follow the previous lot of writing anyway..or find something that shows me what i need to do
<froud> stuff
<froud> great
<Liz> whats a chicago manual of style?
<Liz> its not a known university style..
<Liz> that i know of
<sivang> hey froud ! what's up?
<Liz> we normally follow the harvard style
<froud> Chicago/Turabian style. The best reference resource is therefore The Chicago Manual of Style
<froud> http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/cmosfaq.html
<froud> sivang: beseder gaver
<froud> mieyanim
<froud> Liz: the best way to work is in small pieces and commit often
<Liz> rightio
<Liz> i have it written down
<froud> so take a section make edits and submit the patch
<Liz> and ill get onto it tomorrow..if thats ok
<Liz> its like 1.30am here
<froud> no worries
<sivang> froud: ah everything's fine thank you, been doing some stuff here and there I wan to check out the new doc repository do you have the current URI ?
<froud> So for example you can take a sect1 do your edit then create a patch and send it to us by email
<Liz> yes..i can do that froud
<Liz> thank you 
<sivang> hey Liz, what sections are you going to work on of what book?
<froud> sivang:  https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/
<Liz> right now sivang..no idea ..i only just got it..heh
<froud> Liz: we are focused on Quick Guide
<Liz> thats what ill be looking at 
<Liz> the quickquide
<froud> Liz: if you can focus on that it would be a great help :-)
<froud> yep
<Liz> ill update in the morning..to make sure i have the latest stuff
<froud> Yes
<Liz> and then ill come to chat and work on it
<sivang> froud: wow nice 
<froud> Liz: it is good practice to update before you start work and before you create a patch
<sivang> Liz: ah cool, don't worry, if you get too much docbook in your way, frod will upload your changes ;-)
<froud> Liz: next time I will teach you more about validation
<froud> but here's the basics
<sivang> Liz: are you also a seasoned writer?
<sivang> Liz: (like froud is)
<froud> we have a script in the root of your ubuntu-doc/ folder
<Liz> sivang, no, this is my first time doing this
<Liz> tho i have done instruction manuals while i was studying
<Liz> enrico, please tell froud that ill be back later today..its getting close to 2am monday morning here..and i really need to go to bed 
<Liz> wb froud
<Liz> and goodnight
<Liz> its getting up to 2am here..i really need to go to bed
<enrico> froud: Liz told me she'll be back later today..its ting close to 2am monday morning there... and she really needs to go to bed
<Liz> i will be back later today tho
<enrico> Liz :)
<froud> as sivang said, dont worry too much about getting the markup right I will fix it
<froud> Liz: good night
<Liz> goodnight guys
<enrico> Liz: goodnight!
<enrico> too slow
<froud> whewwwwww, that was heavy
<froud> sivang: can we expectsome patches from you soon?
<enrico> sivang: yes, I want to see a mail with your name on ubuntu-commits!
* froud thinks sivang is now ignoring us
<froud> anybody else lurking on the side. We are so close and the Quick Guide is going strong a bit of help from everyone and I am sure we can bring this in for the freeze.
<froud> enrico: I think the current quick guide is a good base to improve on
<froud> enrico: jeff is concerned about the tips though
<froud> enrico: he feels that it will be tough going to add tips everywhere before the freeze
<froud> I suggest we comment them and then uncomment them back again after we have tagged
<froud> when do you actually want to create the tag, by what date?
<froud> 21?
<froud> if we tag you will have to write the deb packaging so that it creates the packages from the tag
<froud> not the trunk
<enrico> uhm... no need to: you just checkout the tagged version and build the packages from it
<froud> Oh yes, the paths are relative right? :_)
<enrico> WRT the tips, we can leave them there: then some will have some tips and some won't but that's not too bad
<enrico> everything is relative
<froud> ok
<froud> well I am off, b c'ing ya all later
<enrico> froud: see you!
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-04
<Kotiro> good morning all
<Liz> Is listening to : Diana Ross & The Supremes - Touch Me In The Morning, playing track 2/83
<Liz> oops
<Liz> anyone awake?
* Liz nudges froud
<froud> African greetings
<froud> morning Liz
<Liz> afternoon !
<froud> 07H00 this in Johannesburg :-)
<froud> morning coffee, get kids dressed, take them to school. the dril begins
<Liz> heh..
<Liz> im gonna go get something to eat
<Liz> its 4.13pm here
<froud> Cool cause my finders are still to stiff to use the keyboard
* froud is off to take kids to school
<Liz> hello all
<enrico> Liz!
<enrico> damn, too late, I just came back
<plovs_work> hi all, just wanted to let you know i'm alive again
<abelli> ciao
<enrico> plovs!!!
<plovs_work> hi!
<plovs_work> i'm reading up on docteam mail
<plovs_work> 59 to go
<enrico> How are you doing?  We were all quite worried, and I was putting a "Where is Plovs" special on the ubuntu report :)
<plovs_work> vacation (with no internet) work,work and some family emergencies, but now all is ok :-)
<enrico> Hope nothing was too bad
<enrico> Welcome back!
<plovs_work> just updated my  svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-doc
<plovs_work> good to be back
<plovs_work> my fingers are itching to do something again
<enrico> plovs_work: do you have an account in the new repo?
<plovs_work> no, not yet, you wrote me a mail to which I did not reply
<plovs_work> sorry
<enrico> no problem: we can solve it now
<plovs_work> wow a lot has been done
<enrico> yes!
<enrico> plovs_work: one question about the FAQ Guide: is it up to date with hoary and the latest contents of www.ubuntuguide.org?
<enrico> Astharot: !
<enrico> wow!
<Astharot> hi
<Astharot> enrico: ? :P
<enrico> Astharot: do you read Vernacoliere?
<enrico> Astharot: like Maicol and Luana?
<Astharot> no :)
<enrico> The Devil Astharot was often invoked there :O)
<abelli> enrico: retake yourself he's from piacenza, taiwan
<plovs_work> enrico, i just installed a clean hoary system, so i can go over it now, my other hoary box was an update so it was difficult to see
<abelli> i dont know why but the new kernel. -2, broke my system...
<enrico> plovs_work: that's great.  I was wondering about that just today
* enrico needs to remove 2 items from today's ubuntu report: "where is plovs?" and "status of the FAQGuide"
<enrico> plovs_work: that was perfect timing! :)
<plovs_work> enrico, :-)
<abelli> s/-2/-3
<abelli> sge veg ciao
<plovs_work> enrico, how do i get a commit password?
<enrico> plovs_work: we ask Elmo to create one.  He wants your GPG ID and preferred username, or your password encoded with his GPG key and your preferred username
<enrico> So far I've been proxying all requests, so that he doesn't get requests from too many people
<plovs_work> i think you have my gpg id, right? plovs as username is fine
<enrico> ok, I'll mail Elmo
<plovs_work> thanks!
<enrico> I have 7 different IDs... let me see which one I trust :)
<plovs_work> the one with gmail
<plovs_work> if my life depended on understanding gpg i would be long dead, sigh
<enrico> plovs_work: uhm, you don't have my signature on your key.  Did you import the signatures I sent you via e-mail?
<plovs_work> enrico, obviously not, i thought we did that in makaro, what should i do?
<enrico> You should have received a mail from me, gpg encrypted, with a signature inside.  You should have saved the mail, decrypted it and imported the signature
<enrico> jello jiyuu0 !
<enrico> hello jiyuu0 !
<enrico> plovs_work: if you can't find that mail, I'll try to send you another one
<plovs_work> enrico, i seemed to have misplaced it and i have several hundred of your mails so it might be anywhere
<plovs_work> jiyuu0, hi!
<jiyuu0> hi all
<plovs_work> jiyuu0, i am looking at updating the quickguide to hoary, have you done any updating?
<enrico> plovs_work: argh... don't tell me I have to find your fingerprint amont the mess in my room...
<jiyuu0> just recovered from long sick
<jiyuu0> 2 1/2 in bed
<jiyuu0> and no work
<jiyuu0> dengue symtom
<enrico> dengue???
<enrico> have you recovered fine?
<enrico> that's not an easy one
<plovs_work> jiyuu0, man?! that's no fun
<jiyuu0> got so high fever
<jiyuu0> and shiver at same time
<jiyuu0> can't eat/drink too cause got ulser in throat too
<jiyuu0> man suffer
<jiyuu0> but thank god... now back to normal
<jiyuu0> and catching up with work load
<jiyuu0> :(
<plovs_work> jiyuu0, good your back on your feet
<plovs_work> enrico, i have your key in my keyring
<enrico> plovs_work: look for mail containing "caff"
<plovs_work> enrico,  ok
<plovs_work> enrico, ok, can you check again?
<enrico> plovs_work: you couildn't find the mail?
<enrico> or you found it?
<plovs_work> enrico, i had your key already, we signed it on my laptop in spain, i just had not send it to the server i suppose
<enrico> plovs_work: In your laptop you signed my key; however I didn't sign your key on your laptop
<enrico> To have your key signed by me, you should have received those two emails
<plovs_work> enrico, right, in that case i will have to do some more searching later, i can't find it atm
<enrico> ok, I'll look as well
<enrico> In the meantime, it doesn't matter: I'll send the thing to Elmo
<enrico> plovs_work: while the account gets created (Elmo's very busy this week), you can always send me the output of svn diff and I'll take care of applying it
<enrico> for you
<plovs_work> enrico, ok, thanks
<enrico> plovs_work: can I create a new bugzilla entry about a review of the FAQ Guide for Hoary and assign it to you?
<plovs_work> enrico, yes, no problem
<enrico> plovs_work: reported!
<froud> plovs_work: :-) 
<enrico> froud: seen who's around? :)
<froud> yep yep :-)
<froud> enrico: how's your xslt ?
<froud> <xsl:when
<froud>                                 test="contains($glosstermValue, '&#32;&#35;&#36;')">
<froud>                                 <xsl:attribute name="id">
<froud>                                     <xsl:value-of
<froud>                                         select="concat($glossdivTitle, '-', $idValue, '-',
<froud>                                         substring(translate($glosstermValue, X) 1, 3))"/>
<froud>                                 </xsl:attribute>
<froud>                                 <xsl:apply-templates/>
<froud>                             </xsl:when>
<froud> won't validate
<froud> eeror message: F Expected ,, but found: 1
<enrico> froud: my xslt?
<froud> back in 10min
<froud> enrico: back
<froud> enrico: what the situation with the freeze? Do we stil have time or what is happening?
<enrico> I still haven't asked.  mdz is in vacation, I should get to Kamion
<enrico> let me see...
<froud> he he with mdz on hols nobody will freeze :-)
<enrico> froud: appearently, since our packages are not likely to break much, we are not strongly affected by the package freeze
<enrico> I still haven't understood how's the situation for reviews and translations, though
<froud> enrico: OK, thanks. let us know via the list
<enrico> ok
<enrico> OTOH, have a look at the new DocteamStepByStepRepository
<enrico> I think it came out very cute!
<sivang> guys ff is active since the date stated on the release schedule :)
<froud> sivang: what is ff?
<froud> enrico: very cute :-)
<froud> you took my conversation with Liz from the logs and cleaned it up :-)
<sivang> froud: feature freeze
<froud> sivang: ah
<froud> hah
<froud> but since we wont break anything, we still have time. how much I dunno?
<sivang> but I am not sure about docs though, may be that as they are no problem at all.
<sivang> froud: right
<froud> Hmm, guess translation is not an issue for Hoary?
<sivang> not a clue. you should talk to the rosetta guys, we already have translations through rosetta and language packs installed and updated.
<froud> Can Rosetta handle prose?
<sivang> prose?
<froud> free text like in the docs
<sivang> ah, I think the support either is already there yet not exposed to the web, or being worked on.
<sivang> I heared talks about adding/working on it.
<froud> abelli knows these things
<froud> what's th eurl for rosetta?
<sivang> http://launchpad.ubuntu.com/rosetta
<enrico> at the Ubuntuconf, I remember that prose would work, but the interface would become unuseable with long pieces of text
<enrico> Maybe something changed: lots of time has passwd
<enrico> froud: like it, the cleaned up conversation?
<froud> enrico: very cool dude
<enrico> sivang: I remember you said you wanted to commit, as you had some fixes here and there in the repository?
<froud> enrico: how can we make the round robin between svn and mako faster?
<enrico> froud: but mako a secretary, I guess :(
<enrico> s/but/mako/
<enrico> s/but/buy/  # Damnit
<froud> :-)
<froud> he would love that
<enrico> Hello ChrisH_ !
<enrico> froud: I haven't been hearing from Mako for a while
<ChrisH_> enrico: Hi. :)
<enrico> ChrisH_: have a read of the QuickGuide: it ROCKS!
<froud> good gracious, look who the cat dragged in :-)
<froud> hello ChrisH_ 
<ChrisH_> enrico: I have "already" received my knew account and now need to look into it.
<ChrisH_> froud: Hey, docbook god! :)
<ChrisH_> God... what a day. Started with a mabushi meeting and now I'm fixing mentors.debian.net which decided to burn the power supply.
<froud> hala, that's the way it goes. it never rains, but pooooours
<enrico> ChrisH must have been that collapsed neutron star in the Milky Way 
<ChrisH> Definitely... I liked the userfriendly.org interpretation of that event. :)
<enrico> gotta check it out
<ChrisH> from yesterday
<enrico> LOL :)
<ChrisH> deja vu :)
<enrico> Oh no, not again! :)
<ChrisH> Hard to imagine that the even has happened 50,000 years in the past. The whole universe could have blown away and we still don't know it.
<enrico> and we could disappear the next second without seeing it coming
<enrico> (and reappear 5 minutes later, for what matters :)
* froud shakes his head. this stuff is too heavy
<ChrisH> Like a math costudent once sat at the breakfast table being hardly awake. Someone else told him that the sausage wouldn't get onto his bread on its own. He just replied... "but the propability for such an event is greater than zero". That's practical thinking.
<ChrisH> And mentors.debian.net is up again, too. :)
<ChrisH> Who had imagined that a faulty power supply can cause APCI errors
* enrico points at http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/02/msg00495.html once again
<enrico> I'm so happy of etc-in-svk
<ChrisH> svk? depot? repository handling of /etc config files?
<ChrisH> Is svk much different than rcs?
<enrico> svk is like subversion
<enrico> rcs only does one file at a time
<enrico> svk is more like arch than subversion, though
<enrico> and svk can hook into various version control systems
<enrico> does smerges and other cool stuff
<ChrisH> Wouldn't it be equally easy (and less error-prone) to just use a local SVN repository?
<enrico> however, that's not interesting wrt handling /etc.  What's interesting for that, is that svk won't clutter the working copies with .svn directories
<enrico> which answers this last question :)
<ChrisH> right...
<enrico> and the syntax of svk is the syntax of svn
<enrico> and svk uses the subversion filesystem for storing things
* enrico disconnects from the net
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-05
<Liz> anyone know if abiword is installed by default?..i only ask cause i know mine was..
<Liz> brb
<plovs_work> morning all
<froud> morning plovs. African greetings
<Kotiro> greetings
<Kotiro> oops
<froud> Hello Liz
<Liz> hello froud
<Liz> i did have a question earlier..
<froud> r u normally known as Kotiro?
<Liz> no..as Liz
<froud> yes I saw th equestion, not sure I understand
<Liz> kotiro means girl in maori
<Liz> when i set this system up..abiword was installed by default
<Liz> but i asked a friend..it wasnt installed by default on his
<Liz> so i was just wondering, since i didnt see anything on it in the quickguide
<Liz> if it was installed by default or not?
<froud> No Abiword is not installed by default
<froud> It will only install on Upgrade if you have already got it installed
<Liz> it was already installed
<froud> on new install you need to select it for install
<Liz> then again..i did install ubuntu when it was first released
<Liz> im wondering if it could be because i have a pre-release installation as well
<froud> So it was an upgrade
<Liz> i never got around to doing the full install when the shipit discs arrived
<Liz> tho i have done all the upgrades etc
<froud> most of us are running hoary development branches now
<Liz> ditto..tho i had to go backwards at one part cause of some conflicts i had with other software
<Liz> to get them to work
<froud> strange, I did not have those problems. Have not heard any of the other team talking about it either
<Liz> i have seen in on the mailing list
<Liz> and a friend who i sent my discs too..did have problems with his
<froud> perhaps, I meant to doc team 
<Liz> but its to do with monitors and sound cards etc
<Liz> and network cards
<Liz> and video cards
<froud> Yes there are problems in those areas
<froud> most of them are resolved now
<Liz> i just had a problem with mplayer 
<froud> why with mplayer
<Liz> not quite sure
<froud> ok
<Liz> when i upgraded, some files just wouldnt install
<Liz> alsa headers, xorg..and some other lib files
<froud> I see dependancy problems
<Liz> yeah
<plovs_work> Liz, abiword is not installed by default
<Liz> which was a little annoying
<froud> normally    synaptic will take care of all that for you
<Liz> thansk plovs_work..
<Liz> normally..but i updated a few programs ..ie ..mozilla..and gaim
<Liz> which doesnt show up on the synaptic lists yet
<froud> gaim is part of hoary
<froud> dunno about mozilla cause I just user firefox
<Liz> yes.its part of warty too
<Liz> after the hassle i had with java..mozilla is staying
<Liz> tho i have both running now
<froud> so I don''t understand the problem
<froud> java
<Liz> what version of gaim do you run?
<froud> whew girl what ar eyou running
<Liz> what versions in hoary?
<froud> I dont run it it's just there, 
<Liz> ahh..well ..i do use it
<froud> My hoary boxes are for devel
<Liz> ahhh.
<froud> so hows your patch comming
<Liz> good..i sent it to enrico yesterday
<froud> remember work small patch often
<froud> yes I saw that
<froud> nice one
<Liz> thanks
<froud> no thank you
<froud> you should try some original writing on some of the sections marked help
* froud reminds himself to add Liz and Jeff as authors
* Liz is going through quickguide to find help sections
<froud> /*[@status="help"] 
<Liz> yes..found it
<Liz> im using gedit
<froud> this should help then 
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[1] /sect1[4]  - id="qg-additional-resources" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[3] /sect1[5]  - id="qg-office" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[1] /sect2[5]  - id="qg-shared-folders" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[1] /sect2[7]  - id="qg-time-and-date" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[1] /sect2[9]  - id="qg-users-and-groups" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[1]  - id="qg-assistive-technology" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[2]  - id="qg-cd-database-server" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[3]  - id="qg-desktop-background" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[4]  - id="qg-file-management" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[5]  - id="qg-font" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[6]  - id="qg-keyboard" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[7]  - id="qg-keyboard-shortcuts" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[8]  - id="qg-login-photo" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[9]  - id="qg-menus-toolbars" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[10]  - id="qg-mouse" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[11]  - id="qg-multimedia-system-selector" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[12]  - id="qg-network-proxy" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[13]  - id="qg-preferred-applications" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[14]  - id="qg-remote-desktop" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[15]  - id="qg-removable-storage" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[16]  - id="qg-screensaver" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[17]  - id="qg-sessions" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[18]  - id="qg-sound" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[19]  - id="qg-theme" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[2] /sect2[20]  - id="qg-windows" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[5]  - id="qg-about-gnome" status="help"
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[5] /sect1[6]  - id="qg-about" status="help"
<froud> These are all the sections that are marked help as of r546
<froud> BTW. If  you see sections marked review and you think they are as good as finished. Please do mark them complete
<Liz> oh..ok
<Liz> im decided to start from the bottom actually...
<froud> well that is a good way to start
<Liz> yeah..
<Liz> tho..some things i might have to actually enable, to see what they do..hehe
<froud> If you mark a status as complete and it contains an authorblurb then please <!-- comment the authorblurb -->
<froud> Keep text simple and quick. My thinking is that we need to get at least all texts into the document
<froud> then we can add to it later
<froud> if we have all intro para texts then at least users wont see just the word 'Text' under the screenshot
<froud> from this point we can build more.
<froud> although we must take care not to get to carried away, this is the Quick Guide afterall
<froud> We will have plenty more to write in the User Guide
* froud is off to do the school run.
<Liz> rightio
<Liz> hello jeffsch
<Liz> and brb
<jeffsch> greetings. this is my first irc experience. wow.
<Liz> well then welcome
<froud> hello jeffsch 
<froud> welcome to irc
<jeffsch> thanks. I still figuring out how to use x-chat
<Liz> froud..any idea exactly what movement key actually does?
<froud> movement key?
<Liz> under computer, desktop preferences, windows
<Liz> its the last option..ive tried it..but i cant see what it actually does
<plovs_work> Liz, it is to move windows around, usually you grab them with the top-bar
<plovs_work> but you can also press alt and then anywhere in the window press the mousebutton and move around
<plovs_work> good when your window is too big or something
<jeffsch> the help for the movement key is not very clear, is it?
<Liz> ahh..ok
<Liz> no, its not
<jeffsch> i never would have guessed that...
<Liz> i actually asked in teh ubuntu channel..hehe
<Liz> but then screwed up my taskbar and had to restart it
<Liz> froud, if i do an authorburb..im right in putting in my own name yes?
<froud> Yes
<froud> the authorblurbs are used for notes to each other during devel. We comment them out in the release.
<froud> jeffsch: your patch has been applied. Thanks. svn up everyone there are a few sections touched in that patch. :-)
<Liz> sending you my patch froud
<froud> send them on, I'm in the mood for hunking :-)
<froud> feeel like hunking, oh come on and hunk with me
* froud had a good sleep last night and is full of beans this morning
<Liz> hehe
<Liz> sent
<jeffsch> what app are you all using for changes? I started with gedit, but now trying jedit
<Liz> gedit
<Liz> im used to using that
<froud> jedit is better
<Liz> funny enough, i installed all the files to allow abiword to open it, but it just crashed
<froud> I use Oxygen XML Editor. 
<froud> many here use VIM
<froud> some use emacs
<Liz> ive used emacs
<Liz> but i need all my notes on hand..i never remember the commands
<Liz> and i always screw up
<froud> Liz: your patch has been applied. Thanks. everyone can svn up again
<jeffsch> I used emacs a few years ago, but i forgot everything
<jeffsch> i also tried vim, but like emacs, it's a lot of work to get good at
<Liz> ill stick to using gedit i think
<Liz> i use that to edit html pages as well
<Liz> i did use qanta for a while..cause it does php highlighting as well
<froud> any text editor will do
<froud> well I am off to do some other work. yes, I do have other things to do. Thanks for the patches this morning jeffsch and Liz . Made a great start to my day.
<Liz> have a great day
<Liz> i gotta go deal with dinner 
<jeffsch> my day is just ending - almost midnight
<Liz> mines still got 6 hours to go
<froud> 09H38 in Johannesburg South Africa and what a sunny morn after two wet days. 
<froud> now all I gotta do is get rid of this cold before I travell to Cape Town
<jeffsch> in Vancouver we have just had a week without a cloud in the sky
<jeffsch> after 2 weeks of continuous rain
<Liz> we've had 4 days of afternoon thunderstorms and rain
<Liz> neway..im off 
<Liz> see ya later all
<jeffsch> bye. me go too. sleep.
<Liz> hello abelli
<abelli> Liz: hello
<Liz> how are you tonight?
<Liz> well, its night here
<abelli> well thank you..
<abelli> im about having lunch.
<Liz> whats for lunch?
<abelli> dunno..
<abelli> give me 10 minutes
<Liz> hehe
<abelli> "read" you later..
<abelli> ciao
<abelli> After the ambulances go
<abelli> Is cinderella sweeping up
<abelli> On desolation row
<Liz> hehe
<Liz> later
<Liz> enjoy your lunch
<sivang> hey Liz what's up?
<sivang> how's docing go?
<Liz> its going ok..
<Liz> i decided to start from the bottom and work my way up
<Liz> how are you sivang?
<Kinnison>  
<abelli> back
<abelli> Liz: spagetti && artichoke salad
<abelli> Kinnison: au iz u?
<abelli> doing?
* Kinnison blinks
<Kinnison> pardon?
<Liz> never had artichoke
<abelli> Liz: do you want some
<abelli> ?
<abelli> Kinnison: how are you doing?
<Kinnison> abelli: I'm doing fine thanks. How are you?
<abelli> Kinnison: ill be living again on friday
<abelli> Kinnison: thursday: electrotechnics examination...
<Kinnison> good luck
<abelli> Kinnison: thank you
<Liz> sure abelli..might take a while to get here tho..can you have it here in time for breakfast? :P
<abelli> do you believe in _dhl_?
<abelli> :))
<abelli> how is life there?
<Liz> not to bad..
<Liz> hows it up there?
<abelli> fine, thx, but can you define your "here"?
<Liz> new south wales, australia
<abelli> wow
<abelli> ...
<Liz> :)
<Liz> i can see you in italy somewhere..yes?
<abelli> yes
<sivang> Kinnison:  !
<Liz> i could tell from ip
<abelli> Liz: so geek :)
<sivang> Liz: hey liz, it's summer of .au right ? ;-)
<Liz> shhh
<Liz> yes, its still summer here
<sivang> Liz: how did you find out about the docteam? what made you want getting invloved in that?
<Liz> we had a linuxchix meeting here in sydney..and i asked about the documentation projects 
<sivang> Liz: is there a website for linuxchix in aussie?
<Liz> ive always been interested in doing some kind of documentation..only cause there is alot of it missing
<Liz> yes..one moment while i find it
<sivang> Liz: who told you about the ubuntu documentation project?
<sivang> Liz: or, who was you referral ;-)
<Liz> http://sydney.linuxchix.org/
<Liz> sivang, ive been running ubuntu since release..it came up on the mailing list, and also its in the wiki
<Liz> which is where i found it
<sivang> Liz: very nice :)
<Liz> :)
<Liz> its going to be linked with SLUG eventually
<Liz> tho most of our members, are also SLUG members
<sivang> Liz: I started to contribute to ubuntu since before preview was out, and started with the docteam, now I do manily development.
<Liz> id never heard of it till it showed up on the slug mailing list
<Liz> then jeff did a presentation of it just before release at a slug meeting
<Liz> and it appeared again at a install fest that was held at my local university
<Liz> ive been using it ever sine
<Liz> since
<Liz> still trying to get games to work in it..i mean cdrom games
<Liz> im a diablo addict..as well as a neverwinter nights one
<abelli> Liz: i think that cedega can handle them
<abelli> or not?
<sivang> Liz: http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/kernel_hacking/ <== wow cool
<abelli> Liz: are you going to have a  linux-chix-calendar? :)=
<sivang> abelli: hey hey :_
<sivang> ;-)
<Liz> abelli, i did do the website..
<Liz> didnt that is
<Liz> http://www.linuxchix.org/
<Liz> and abelli, i have heard that cedega will work..but i need to get an external video card first
<abelli> which one?
<Liz> my onboard one isnt supported in linux yet
<abelli> Liz: what is it?
<Liz> my motherboard?
<Liz> its an asus..
<Liz> i think
<abelli> eheh
<Liz> nite all
<pro> _froud_ you here?
<pro> i have to go all, im busting for a pee. all the toilets are locked and its a 10 min drive home.....
* froud looks around and thinks, "The room is getting crowded."
* enrico likes crowds
* enrico waves
<froud> Quick Guide status report: 10 items left for review, 9 items need help, 166 items complete.
* froud looks around the room for people to volunteer
* enrico is impressed by the stats
* froud sees a sheepsih look on sivangs face and smiles
* froud also notices that ChrisH is really itching to do something
* enrico tickles sivang
<froud> I think he's playing dead :-)
<enrico> must be, must be :)
<froud> kick him
<Kinnison> nasty people
* Kinnison tsks you
* froud wacks Kinnison with a wet fish
* enrico is not violent anyway
* enrico cooks the wet fish
* froud hears the battle cry, "FREE FOR ALL!!!!"
* froud brings out the KDE arsenal
<froud>  OK now I'm ready
* enrico passes some Valium to froud
<froud> enrico: I want some tabsco with that fish
<froud> not valium
<enrico> (it's very cheap now with these phantastic pharmacy stores online!)
<enrico> :->
<froud> Viagra
<froud> anyone know who pro is?
<enrico> pro?
<froud> @ 17:52 pro asked _froud_ you here?
<enrico> I wasn't there
<froud> then says "i have to go all, im busting for a pee. all the toilets are locked and its a 10 min drive home....."
<froud> strange stuff
<enrico> and he doesn't give many details on his /whois
<froud> enrico: any idea why we have 'evolution' twice in the menu system?
<enrico> shouldn't be...
<froud> Once under Internet and once under Office
<enrico> is it two icons next to each other, or in two different menus?
<enrico> Ah, ok.  Could be ebcause evo is also an organizer and planner
<froud> Hmm good point
* froud goes to vnc to test it
<froud> Bingo but /me thinks it's a bit pointless
* froud back in 10 min
<enrico> not too pointless: if you put it in Internet, you don't find it if you think at the organizer, and vice vera
<enrico> versa
<froud> Hmm maybe
<froud> enrico: Ok tonight I will commit my last for a few days. I will be away for a few days. Next time I will be abl eto do anyting is on Monday next week. Is there anything that needs doing now, or that will happen while I am away like tagging
<enrico> Needs doing now?  Uhm, nothing comes to my mind.  I'll have a review of everything in the next days.
<enrico> But I can do tagging, don't worry
<froud> Ok so people can still contribute for the next week or so?
<enrico> Yesterday Kamion told me we can happily wait for mdz to come back (should be in a couple of days)
<enrico> So I take it we're not too strict
<froud> Good if it is one more week, that's what I think we need to put this version on ice
<abelli> bonne soir
<abelli> froud: woza
<froud> sawubona, gunjani wena
<abelli> vot bever?
<froud> hello, how are you?
<froud> enrico: I see trickie is ticking away on those release notes
<abelli> froud: are you talking with me
<enrico> froud: ticking away?
<froud> enrico: yes, chipping at it bit by bit 'till it is finished.
<enrico> yes, that's very cool!
<froud> trickie just sits in silence and does his thing without anyone noticing :-)
<enrico> I wish Debian had more and more people like that
<froud> he he, wishful thinking
<froud> well I am at 21 commits and 2 patches today. Now were should I work next?
<froud> Im on a roll
<froud> when the end gets near it's a good idea to push harder
<enrico> froud: wow1
<enrico> froud: wow!
<froud> Jeff and Lizz gave some good stuff in this morning. Quite large patches
<enrico> froud: what you could do?  Uhm... we're short of goals for Hoary, it seems :)
<enrico> There's also upstream documentation needing some review, if you have nothing to do :)
<froud> which upstream :-)
<enrico> any? :
<enrico> :)
<froud> Debian is a no go for me. The Karma there is not good for my health.
<enrico> all manpages linking to undocumented should be written; sometimes per-app documentation is awful, stuff like that
<froud> GNOME, I think Shaumn has it under control
<froud> Not today, may be next week
<froud> once I get started I will not want to go to Cape town in the morning
<enrico> but I think you should do that only if, when using hoary, you stumble on some documentation which is particularly bad
<froud> enrico: are your xrefs showing ok in yelp
<froud> mine are all wacked
<enrico> wacked?  You mean, xrefs to other doucuments?
<enrico> after installing the package?
<froud> no I am running the development branch, pretty much on the head
<froud> yelp is 2.9.3
<froud> I have the same problem under SuSE using Yelp 2.6.1
<froud> Isn't there a newer version of yelp
<enrico> froud: whacked you mean "don't show up?"
<froud> no they are not formatted correctly
<froud> they are in heading style and form a block
<enrico> I'm looking at the one in quickguide.xml:192, and it just doesn't show
<froud> revision of quick guide is 569
<enrico> yes, they just disappear here
<froud> oh line 192
<froud> what version of yelp are you using
<enrico> and the next one in 202: disappeared
<enrico> I'd ask Shaun
<froud> mine dont disappear they are just large as if they are headings
* froud goes of to irc.gnome.org #docs to ask
<froud> enrico: where can we checkout the ubuntu copy of Yelp
<froud> Perhaps I can patch the XSL and we can move it upstream
<froud> enrico: Shaunm thinks he has messed up the endterm stuff in the XSL's. Where can I get the Ubuntu src of Yelp so I can patch the XSL. This way it can be fixed in Hoary and we can move it upstream to GNOME
<froud> email me if you have an answer. I am off to bed go to be up at 04H30
<froud> cya
#ubuntu-doc 2006-02-27
<Kyral> LaserJock: do you know of any good general purpose chem programs (for like quickly calculating the molecular weight of something)
<LaserJock> easychem?
<Kyral> ..EasyChem doesn't do that
<LaserJock> bummer, I thought I'd make you do a "Kyral falls down" ;-)
<Kyral> I'll just calc it manually
<LaserJock> umm, I think perhaps xdrawchem or chemtool
<LaserJock> I don't have my dapper box on me so I can't remember which one exactly. Both might do it.
<Kyral> I wonder if anyone finds it ironic that I was kicked out of the place I was studying Chem by my Chem TA
<LaserJock> I'd kick you out too ;-)
<Kyral> ....
<Kyral> baka
<LaserJock> any body who wrote the Makefiles or scripts for the docteam repo around?
<LaserJock> hi KingBahamut
<KingBahamut> LaserJock, 
<KingBahamut> how goes it?
<LaserJock> KingBahamut: it's going. way too much to do and not enough time to do it in :-) How bout yourself? I suppose the forums keep you busy.
<LaserJock> hi robotgeek jsgotangco and mhz
<mhz> hi LaserJock 
<jsgotangco> morning
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi you ppls
<robotgeek> hey LaserJock 
<robotgeek> i should probably document this in breezy, so later all. 
<Madpilot> hi all
<Burglaptop> hello Madpilot jsgotangco
<LaserJock> hi Burglaptop
<LaserJock> hi Madpilot
<jsgotangco> hi all
<Burglaptop> geez our new logout dialog looks out of place
<Burglaptop> http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/JPEG/Logout_dialog.png
<Burglaptop> compare the lockscreen one with everything else
<jsgotangco> yes
<Burglaptop> however, they don't look out of place with tango, which is to green/blue for me
<Burglaptop> tango's icon for their locale is a US and German flag
<mpt> You know the problem with that dialog?
<mpt> It's not big enough
<mpt> It should be full-screen
<mpt> and if you use a dual-headed setup, it should use both screens
<Madpilot> mpt: gah, I was just thinking that it sprawls a bit too much as it is...
* mpt prods Madpilot's sense of sarcasm
<Madpilot> heh... <rude noise> :P
<LaserJock> mpt: no, I think you should have to scroll to see all the buttons ;-p
<mpt> oooh yeah
<mpt> a scrolling list!
<mpt> Or even better, a menu that you have to open to see the options!
<mpt> Windows 2000 did that, so it must be right!
<HrdwrBoB> also, insist on having ashutdown reason
<HrdwrBoB> but don't expose that information anywhere logical
<mpt> (what WERE Microsoft thinking)
<LaserJock> I think that each time it is opened that the buttons should be randomly placed without text
<Madpilot> LaserJock: best suggestion yet!
<Madpilot> we could randomly switch icon themes too, so the icons are randomized as well
<mpt> ooh, randomized buttons, like WinZip
<Burglaptop> mpt: the problem with full screen is the amount of mouse movement needed
<Burglaptop> but corners could be interesting
<LaserJock> man, if only the docteam was in charge. Dapper would be AWESOME!
<HrdwrBoB> Burglaptop: you could hook it to the mouse properties
<Burglaptop> HrdwrBoB: huh?
<HrdwrBoB> and increas sensitivity when the shutdown dialog was acticated
<Burglaptop> ugh
<HrdwrBoB> *activated
<Burglaptop> the amount of mouse movement needed in gnome has really come to head recently, as my touchpad is borked
<Madpilot> <slightly more seriously> Is Tango going to be default icon theme for dapper, or is it still Human?
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: human, afaik
<LaserJock> or just have each button mapped to a mouse button. left click restarts, right click shutsdown :-)
<Burglaptop> however, apparently mark is paying somebody to do professional art for this release
<HrdwrBoB> the cure for that is to never use a touchpad
<Burglaptop> sadly a mouse doesn't work when you sitting on a couch
* Burglaptop enjoys the wonders of wireless
<HrdwrBoB> Burglaptop: yeah, trackpoint :)
<Madpilot> cool - I switched this Breezy install over to Tango a few days ago, and it's... odd... plus, being incomplete, a lot of the icons are still Human's anyway...
<LaserJock> have you guys tried Flight4 yet?
<Burglaptop> not yet
<Madpilot> I'm burning a LiveCD as we speak, actually
<Madpilot> ...and peering the LiveCD torrent, too
<LaserJock> hmmm, I'm impatiently waiting for the install iso to download. Does the LIveCD have espresso on it?
<Burglaptop> yes
<LaserJock> I think I just figured out how to get Ubuntu on my iMac. There is a program called Q which a cocoa port of qemu and it has a universal binary!
<LaserJock> Burglaptop: but the install cd is still the same? I thought they were going to just have 1 cd.
<Burglaptop> LaserJock: the install cd is still teh same
<Burglaptop> they are only going to ship and promote the live cd
<LaserJock> I see so will dapper+1 not have the install cd at all?
<Madpilot> hmm, LiveCD finished burning - I'll eat, then mess with Dapper
<Burglaptop> no, the install cd will always be there
<LaserJock> ok
<Burglaptop> there are lots of use cases for it, but it won't be promoted
<LaserJock> I wonder if this qemu on OSX is worth a place somewhere on the wiki, if it isn't there already?
<Burglaptop> if you got to download and install Ubuntu, by default you will get the live cd
<Burglaptop> go for it
<Madpilot> There isn't a lot of Ubuntu-on-PPC stuff anywhere, on the wiki or in our docs
<LaserJock> Madpilot: well it's actually Ubuntu-on-macintel which is more important at the moment since you can't install Ubuntu on them
<Burglaptop> LaserJock: you have a macintel?
<LaserJock> yes
<Burglaptop> bastard
<Burglaptop> ;)
<LaserJock> my boss just bought 2 17" iMacs
<LaserJock> I told him I wanted an AMD64 box but he insisted
<LaserJock> he used to be hard core linux (emacs +fvwm were his main apps) but OSX has won him over. Now we have 4 iMacs in the lab.
<crimsun> it's very easy to slip and fall prey to the dark side
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm more productive on the mac I think, unfortunately.
<LaserJock> I'm very irritated at how much software for OSX can cost
<LaserJock> but if darwin ports gets working for the intels then I can get most of my linuxy apps that I'm used to
<LaserJock> I find OSX to be a lot more linux friendly than Windows though, which is nice. I can still do most of my work in a terminal.
<crimsun> ah, they're both friendly from my perspective. Just gimme a fullscreen terminal and ssh client, and I'm off.
<LaserJock> but OSX has an X server, python, lots of *nix commands, etc already in it. PuTTY is pretty cool though.
<crimsun> yep, which is why it's a short slide down to the dark side
<LaserJock> crimsun: well, as long as I have to pay for it I'll probably not get a Mac. It still seems overpriced for the hardware.
<Burglaptop> mpt: can said you would help us with the BetterWikiDocs spec?
<mpt> Burglaptop, yes
<mpt> not during work hours, though :-)
<Burglaptop> mpt: when is non-work hours for you?
<Burglaptop> that you are awake and available, that is
<mpt> in about four hours
<Burglaptop> what time is it there?
<Burglaptop> mpt: ^
<mpt> 18:17
<jsgotangco> he at least OSX has emacs built in
<mpt> and Aquamacs is pretty nifty
<EricNeon> hi
<mpt> ho
<Burglaptop> mpt: what about tomorrow morning? That is during work for me
<mpt> What is during work, and is that good or bad?
<Burglaptop> mpt: during work is 9-5 and I can take a few moments off during lunch
<Burglaptop> 6-3pm, your time
<mpt> Tomorrow morning I'm out rock climbing or something, sorry
* mdke hugs mpt
* mpt hugs mdke 
<jsgotangco> what's the hugging about?
<mpt> jsgotangco, if #ubuntu-desktop can be fill of hugs, #ubuntu-doc can too :-)
* mpt hugs jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> good idea
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
* jsgotangco hugs mpt 
* jsgotangco hugs Kamping_Kaiser 
<Kamping_Kaiser> o_0
* Kamping_Kaiser hugs jsgotangco and mpt
<mpt> yay, group hugs
<Kamping_Kaiser> woot
<jsgotangco> as long as its not grope hug
<jsgotangco> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol :) depends whos involved ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. probablyu not CoC that comment, sorry :/
* Kamping_Kaiser tries to learn C++, as an excuse to not learn docbook... i shoudl probalby just bite that bulet
<mpt> That is so backwards
<mpt> Docbook is just XML
<Kamping_Kaiser> <grin> just xml?
<mpt> XML is easy
<mpt> <foo bar="hum"><smeg/></foo>
<mpt> That's all you need to know
<Kamping_Kaiser> um. that's easy. none of the docbook i looked at looks that easy o_0
<jsgotangco> its just descripting tags
<jsgotangco> its meant to be readable
<Kamping_Kaiser> so ... hm. *thinks about that for a bit*
<jsgotangco> <article></article>
<jsgotangco> <book></book>
<jsgotangco> <procedure><step><para>foo</para></step></procedure>
<bhuvan> Kamping_Kaiser: visit http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/ for details
<Kamping_Kaiser> looking
<mdke> just copy the existing stuff in the docs
<mdke> that's what I always do :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol mdke :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> wonder where i can get that docbook stuff in printed form.
<jsgotangco> Docbook the Definitive Guide (O'Reiley)
<mdke> that's online and on paper, good stuff
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh o_0 yelp opens stuff. didnt do that last time i tried
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. *goes to have a hack*
<Madpilot> hi all - just spent several hours poking around the Flight4 LiveCD - very cool stuff!
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> :) 
<jsgotangco> did espresso work?
<Madpilot> didn't try the installer, actually.
<jsgotangco> bah that's not testing
<jsgotangco> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Madpilot> just messed with xchat-gnome - which didn't impress me all that much - and a few other things
<jsgotangco> well actually
<Madpilot> Alacarte allows editing of all the menus, not just the Applications one
<jsgotangco> xchat-gnoe is an acquired taste so it seems
<jsgotangco> Madpilot, i didnt even notice that
* jsgotangco has an edubuntu workstation flight4 in front
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: that's pretty much the reason I tried Flight4 - so someone can write a "How to edit menus" section for UDG
<jsgotangco> oohhhh
<Madpilot> but some of the other new shininess is pretty cool
<Madpilot> I'm still surprised at how FAST the Dapper LiveCD is - but the last LiveCD I tried on this machine was a Hoary one...
* mdke gets stuck into BetterWikiDocs
<jsgotangco> whoa
<jsgotangco> google news is now out of beta
<jsgotangco> i just added an ubuntu filter and it showed me all ubuntu news
<jsgotangco> even feature freeze got in desktoplinux
<Madpilot> one interesting bug in Alacarte - there is no "New Entry" button right on the main panel like Breezy's Edit Menu app
<Madpilot> menu editing diff sent to the list
<mdke> you are a god
<Madpilot> nah, I just fake it :P
<Kamping_Kaiser> <grin>
<Madpilot> we still need *something* on printers in UDG, even if it's just a link to a wiki page or linuxprinting.org or something...
<Kamping_Kaiser> a link to lp.o would be  a good start :/
<Kamping_Kaiser> and on sharing printers... wonder if i can do something on that.
<Madpilot> please do - all I know about printers is "I bought an HP, plugged it in, and it worked."  :P
<jsgotangco> Madpilot, im sure you can afford a cheap HP printer :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol Madpilot
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: I've got one, that's what I meant
<Kamping_Kaiser> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/566465 i think i missed something - can someone have a look at this doesnt validate?
<Madpilot> how often do the HTML versions of our SVN docs get built? After every new commit?
<jsgotangco> once a day
<jsgotangco> you can request mdke for a manual trigger though
<jsgotangco> mdke, can we make this like twice a day at least?
<Madpilot> twice or even more times per day would be good, editing will probably pick up even more as our deadline gets closer
<mdke> we could do twice a day
<mdke> don't forget tho that the server is pretty busy with trying to support all the users reading help.u.c
<Madpilot> true - doc.u.c & help.u.c share a machine, then?
<mdke> yes
<jsgotangco> mdke, how big is the load?
<mdke> i don't know
<jsgotangco> install a stats package :P
<mdke> i've set it to twice a day
<mpt> okie dokie
<mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ is a giant workaround for the poor quality of http://www.ubuntu.com/ ...
<Madpilot> that's fairly blunt :P
<mpt> Oh, I'm not putting that in the spec :-)
<mpt> "Our next release, sometime early 2005, will be roughly 5.04."
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Madpilot> mpt: does it actually say that somewhere on u.c? gah...
<ompaul> mpt, can I have your time machine I want to undo a mistake I made early last year
<mpt> Madpilot, yes, and the weird thing is the surrounding questions are more or less up-to-date
<mpt> except for "Soon after the Warty release, updated packages will be available in our development branch on an ongoing basis ..."
<Madpilot> I know that parts of the FAQ are horribly irrelevant now - we were picking it apart here a while ago...
<mpt> ok, that's kind of gutwrenching procrastination
* mpt returns to BetterWikiDocs
<mpt> mdke, I don't see that moving pages from one wiki to another solves the "Documentation is not in one place" problem -- it solves other problems, but not that one
<mpt> It doesn't stop the DSF from existing, it doesn't stop ubuntuguide.org from existing, etc
<ompaul> Madpilot, I still have it on webpage/FAQ  and I was looking for guidence on it
<ompaul> on the wiki
<Madpilot> ompaul: I'll have a look tomorrow - thanks for the reminder
<mdke> mpt, the docs I'm talking about which are in different places are the ones we have control over
<mdke> i.e. 1. our stuff on help.ubuntu.com, and 2. the wiki docs
<mdke> i'm not referring to ubuntuguide, or anything else
<ompaul> mdke, random idea, why not have the CSS changed in the wiki so it points out at the top of the page that help.ubuntu.com exists?
<mdke> like a further tab you mean?
<ompaul> no
<ompaul> who reads tabs?
<ompaul> no like inline in the page 
<ompaul> an invariable piece of text at the top of page - for further information maybe explore help. ...
<ompaul> something that says this is not definitive
<ompaul> but allows respect to the author 
<mdke> that just perpetuates the division between "official" and "unofficial" docs
<ompaul> kind of like did not find what you wanted why not visit "ResouceCentral"
<mdke> which I really don't like
<ompaul> okay question, can anyone tell me how many pages are on the wiki?
<ompaul> it is not a dividing line is it a community validation
<mdke> it's in the spec
<mdke> 5000 or so
<ompaul> one person working alone never made stone soup, and so I see no difference between wiki and help that is all
<ompaul> there is an end product difference but they are "ubuntu"
<mdke> i'm not sure if you're agreeing with the spec or not
* ompaul is not sure either :)
<ompaul> My take on it is this: If I look for a parallel idea, I am thinking of the wiki as lots of individual packages on sourceforge, and the contents of kernel.org.  The help.ubuntu.com is a Ubuntu/Debian/$version. Just cos it does not make it to help does not make it better or worse, it might just be undiscovered. So I think when someone is on sourceforge a disservice is done to them as they may be missing the fact that a patched and p
<ompaul> olished version is sitting in their distro, lets not talk about dependency hell. That is how I see it.
<ompaul> for that purpose I think it is valid to point from sourceforge to distros if you can - and it is all Ubuntu
* mdke blinks
<ompaul> mdke, is it just mud, or did I manage to make myself clear?
<mdke> not clear, but it's not your fault
<mdke> i'm distracted by work
<mdke> i dont have time to concentrate :)
<mpt> sourceforge is not a good model for anything :-P
<mdke> mpt, did you get my explanation of the "documents are not in one place" thing?
<ompaul> mpt,  then the point was well and truely lost
<mpt> mdke, yes, I understood
<mpt> mdke, I've knocked up the first half of the spec
<mpt> Feel free to scream at me
<mpt> ompaul, I *think* you're inadvertently explaining why Launchpad is a good thing :-)
<mdke> mpt, read it. looks good. I may add a couple of small changes
<mdke> I dont like as much as [possible in the design section
<mpt> well, that excludes the DSF, for example
<mpt> hmm, maybe it should just say "all help documents currently on the Ubuntu wiki".
<mdke> ok
<mpt> done
<mpt> Has anyone thought about how i18n should be handled on help.ubuntu.com?
* mpt falls asleep
<mdke> mpt, not really, often the translations end up on individual loco websites
<mdke> help.ubuntu-it.org for example
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders why a docbook document is saying xml has to be declared first thing  - when it is. anyone know?
<mpt> erk, a lot of the CC meeting was discussing specs
<mpt> mdke, in the long term I'd like specs stored and edited on Launchpad itself
<mdke> me too
<mdke> mpt, i might ask Mark to have a look at the spec and act as approver, any objections?
<mpt> whoa, that's raising the bar :-)
<mdke> i don't think it's a CC thing
<mpt> ok
<mdke> is it raising the bar?
<mdke> mpt, can I take out the bit about FrontPage? there is no reason that point couldn't be fixed simply by renaming the home page of the existing wiki
<mdke> i think it detracts from the point that documentation should have better visibility
<mpt> mdke, done
<mdke> thanks
* mdke hugs again
<mdke> mpt, i'm not sure I follow the lack of Structure point
<mdke> that seems to me that it could be solved without a move
<mdke> categories, namespaces etc
<mpt> It's a social thing, not a technical thing
<mpt> remove it if you think it detracts from the point
<mdke> mpt, I've reworded it slightly, tell me what you think
<mpt> good
<mpt> though, repetitious
<LaserJock> mdke: ping?
<mdke> LaserJock, yes
<LaserJock> mdke: i just wanted to discuss the copyright of scripts/Makefiles
<mdke> ok, shoot
<LaserJock> just a sec.
<LaserJock> ok, so according to the docteam license all scripts and Makefiles should be GPL'd
<LaserJock> but none of the scripts or Makefiles I saw were GPL'd
<mdke> how does one gpl a script?
<LaserJock> but a GPL preamble at the top. Just a sec, I'll give you an example
<mdke> LaserJock, that's fine, as per the mailing list, you can go ahead and commit it
<mdke> -> dinner
<LaserJock> mdke: I think the problem is that the original authors have to GPL it. We can't just arbitrarily relicense it.
<LaserJock> mdke: for example for validate.sh has "author: Sean Wheller (froud) sean@inwords.co.za"
<mdke> LaserJock, good point. Ok, let's contact him and ask, and if he is not happy, then we'll have to get another validate script
<LaserJock> mdke; ok, you going to do that? or should I? ubuntu/Makefile is better because it just says "# Ubuntu Documentation Project <ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com>"
<mdke> yeah, that's fine
<mdke> i'll mail sean
<LaserJock> great, I'll try to go through the repo more and find files we need to change, etc.
<mdke> feel free to change translate.sh
<LaserJock> k
<mdke> although I suppose it only needs to be GPL if it is in the source package, is that right?
<mdke> we don't need the validate or translation scripts in the source package
<LaserJock> I'm not sure but it probably wouldn't hurt to make it a policy to have proper copyrights when we make these scipts
<mdke> well what is the reason that it needs to be GPL?
<mdke> because it's in ubuntu main right?
<LaserJock> no
<mdke> why?
<LaserJock> because we state on DocumentationTeam/License that all non-docs such as scripts, Makefiles, etc. are GPL and for the packaging I have to at least account for the copyright of all the files in the source.
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what all goes into the source package but I got to looking at scripts,etc. and noticed that the didn't have any licensing really
<mdke> right, so anything not in the source package doesn't matter
* mdke emails sean anyway
<LaserJock> not strictly but if we say on the wiki that they are GPL but then the files don't say that ... I just think it might be wise to clear up the licenses for non-docs in the repo
<mdke> ok
<mdke> go ahead with translate.sh then
<mdke> i'll ask jbailey sometime
<LaserJock> I'm going to build the source package and just see what gets included
<LaserJock> and address those first
<mdke> LaserJock, read the README
<mdke> the README.debian rather
<LaserJock> ah yes. I knew I had seen that before
<mdke> we can amend that list obviously
<LaserJock> I'm going to unpack the source package and take a look because it isn't obvious to me what exactly gets included
<mdke> right now validate and translate will be there
<LaserJock> mdke: ok so here is something. ubuntu/default.css is GPL. shouldn't it be FDL/CC-SA?
<Burgwork> LaserJock, where is the source of the css? If it is a derived work, it might be gpl
<mdke> *head swims*
<mdke> it's derived from some docbook related thing yeah
<LaserJock> mdke: me too.
<LaserJock> this is quickly becoming a headache. Debian policy says that I have to account for the licenses of *every* file in the source package, I believe.
<LaserJock> so I either have to list them individually or be able to make blanket "this directory is FDL/CC-SA" statements
<mdke> say that all scripts and css are gpl?
<LaserJock> are they?
<mdke> then make them gpl :)
<LaserJock> if I can ;-)
<mdke> we'll ask where necessary
<mdke> hey Burgwork 
<mdke> you wanna do a usability review of the current desktop guide?
<LaserJock> ok, so maybe to start we can weed out scripts that don't need to be in the source package like validate.sh
<mdke> LaserJock, ok, but as you say, we can make them gpl anyway, just for consistency
<LaserJock> sure
<Burgwork> mdke, in my copious free time, sure
<mdke> heh
<Burgwork> I can commit to doing it next week, no earlier
<mdke> any tips appreciated
<mdke> no need to commit :)
<mdke> just whatever you can do, is great
<LaserJock> just a diff will do ;-)
* Burgwork avoids responsiblity
<Burgwork> LaserJock, actually, I even have commit rights, even though I don't exercise them very often
<Burgwork> I did join the doc team in Dec 2004, after all
<LaserJock> I know, I was just being trying to liven my mood after this licensing thing. :-)
<LaserJock> I'm now installing Flight4 in a OSX qemu so I think that might help as well, hopefully.
<mdke> who can translate this to English:
<mdke> Kino is an advanced video editor. It features excellent integration with IEEE-1394 for capture, VTR control, and recording back to the camera. It captures video to disk in Raw DV and AVI format, in both type-1 DV and type-2 DV (separate audio stream) encodings.
<mdke> i'm tempted to dump that into the kino section of the desktop guide on the assumption that people who want a program like that will understand it
#ubuntu-doc 2006-02-28
<Burglaptop> salut Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi Burglaptop
<Madpilot> Burgwork: the http://gcompris.net/ website does work in Opera, at least here
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: hmm
<Burglaptop> you tested all of it?
<Madpilot> not all, but I've followed most of the links on the lefthand menu
<Burglaptop> ok
<Burglaptop> I will report that
<Madpilot> this is the latest Opera, 8.52 - I just updated a day or so ago
<Madpilot> "we will bikeshed all day" - what does "bikeshed" mean in this context, Burglaptop?
<Burglaptop> talk about useless things and never get anywhere
<Madpilot> heh, OK. Why "to bikeshed"?
<jsgotangco> gcompris?
<Burglaptop> http://bikeshed.com/
<Madpilot> "Some people have commented that the amount of noise generated by a change is inversely proportional to the complexity of the change."
<Madpilot> and what an awful, awful background colour! :P
<Burglaptop> ok, grumble
<jsgotangco> what's this talk of Guide XML
<Burglaptop> no idea, more random tangents and bikeshedding
<Burglaptop> did you see my plea?
<jsgotangco> reading now
<jsgotangco> guide xml doesn't suit us at the moment since we use yelp anyway
<jsgotangco> talk of infrastructure doesn't go anywhere
<Burglaptop> I also think docbook is suboptimal, but talking about changing right now is foolish
<jsgotangco> i just ignore it lately
<Burglaptop> jsgotangco: do you have any thoughts on the whole wiki split thing?
<jsgotangco> honestly, none at the moment, i was busy with g-a-i, u-m and now with edubuntu
<Burglaptop> what are you doing with g-a-i and u-m?
<jsgotangco> just a some string updates and the doco
<Burglaptop> \ah
<Burglaptop> cool, usplash down just landed
<jsgotangco> tuxmath crack me up jeez
<jsgotangco> wonder why tuxtype is only fullscreen
<Burglaptop> gcompris only does 800x600
<jsgotangco> Burglaptop: i sometimes wonder how fixated people are with regards to tagging their work as official/unofficial
* jsgotangco hugs mpt_ and mpt__
<Burglaptop> I understand some of it
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: it's either "it's better to be official" or "It's cooler to be unofficial", it seems like...
* mpt__ and mpt_ hug jsgotangco simultaneously
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: ping, cheap one liner again 
<jsgotangco> :D
<Burglaptop> as long it isn't one nighter...
<robotgeek> i was worried about why my document was not validating, lol
<robotgeek> i know a bit  more about docbook, lol
* robotgeek sees heated scrollback
* Burglaptop sees on discussions, not heat
<Burglaptop> interesting little bit I read a while back
<Burglaptop> 80% think they understand the tone of what they read, while actually only 50% understood the tone
<robotgeek> i think it was on slashdot
<Madpilot> ...and on slashdot, it instantly degenerated into the sort of discussion where *nobody* got the tone... :P
<robotgeek> yeah, if you have made that comment on slashdot, you probably would have been modded +5 funny
<Burglaptop> wow, the web is so much more pleasant without flash
<robotgeek> being on linux ppc does have it's advantages :)
<robotgeek> Madpilot: nice link "bikeshed"
<robotgeek> anyways, back to work. i need to bring DG to a reviewable state, lol
<Burglaptop> where are xubuntu-docs being developed?
<LaserJock> Burglaptop: no clue. Are there xubuntu docs? other than xfce docs
<jsgotangco> none that i know
<jsgotangco> rob spearheaded one but he disappeared
<mdke> Burgwork, upstream
<mdke> i heard that a few people were interested in doing some for ubuntu, but never heard anything concrete
<mdke> bloody hell @ mailing list
<jsgotangco> what about?
<mdke> the changes to infrastructure etc
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> there is a strange fixation to such
* mdke would like to see those people contributing
<jsgotangco> mdke: i've already commited the last batch of updates for g-a-i it's already merged in the bzr of mvo, i'll clean up that part after freeze
<jsgotangco> u-m on its way
<Madpilot> u-m?
<jsgotangco> update manager
<Madpilot> ah
<mdke> jsgotangco, oh cool, nice work
<mdke> hiya Madpilot 
<jsgotangco> mdke: as for the png we have on svn, i was thinking of optimizing them using pngcrush or something similar
<jsgotangco> it'll reduce the size by at least 50%
<Madpilot> hi mdke
<LaserJock> mdke: which ML was the "bloody hell" about? I'm losing track :(
<mdke> jsgotangco, for all of them?
<mdke> jsgotangco, if it works well... sounds good
<mdke> LaserJock, ours
<LaserJock> mdke: really? I thought it was pretty tame. I'll have to read some more ;-)
<jsgotangco> mdke: yeah after distro release i guess or have those working on screenshots optimzize it themselves :)
<mdke> ok
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: that is a good idea, the repo is pretty large and I think a lot of size is due to images.
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i learned about pngcrush when i saw a bug report on synaptic
<jsgotangco> regarding the manual
<mdke> can you just crush all the files in one go?
<jsgotangco> i haven't tried it but i'm sure its possible
<jsgotangco> if only it works in dapper now
<HrdwrBoB> er
<jsgotangco> it seemed to have been broken after a libpng update
<HrdwrBoB> find -name \*.png -exec pngcrush '{}' \;
<jsgotangco> there ya go regex love
<HrdwrBoB> well, not really
<mdke> -> work
<mdke> Madpilot, feel free to mark sections complete as you check them for typos
<Madpilot> will do - I moved a few status tags just now, but ignored most of them
* mdke nods
<mdke> and you can do a patch for the whole dg directory, rather than individual files, if you like
<Madpilot> with the same "svn diff", or does the syntax change when you're diff'ing entire directories?
<mdke> same
<Madpilot> thanks - I'll keep that in mind
<mdke> ok applied
<mdke> i made one tiny change so svn up
<Madpilot> will do, but I'm not doing any more editing tonight
<mdke> cool, thanks for those
<Madpilot> np
* bhuvan expects someone like Madpilot for sg :)
<Madpilot> bhuvan: I can do basic proofreading for serverguide if you like
<mdke> bhuvan, we'll get there, don't worry
<mdke> the DG needed some major love tho
<bhuvan> Madpilot: you provide your love to dg. we'll get your help, if need be in the end
<Madpilot> OK, I lied, one last diff off to the list
<mdke> ooh printers
<mdke> what do you envisage going in that section? specific printer hardware?
<Madpilot> at a minimum, a pointer to whereever Dapper keeps it's Printer config thing - it's System-Admin-Printers in Breezy
<Madpilot> links to the wiki's printer stuff, maybe to linuxprinting.org
<mdke> is this a common task though?
<Madpilot> printers are more common than handhelds, and we've got a section on handhelds & Ubuntu
<mdke> i mean, should it be in common-tasks.xml
<Madpilot> maybe - right now most of the hardware stuff is in config-system.xml, though
<mdke> sure, so if that is going to be hardware directed, it's definitely in the right place
<mdke> if it's just a guide to printing, i dunno
<Madpilot> anyway, I need to get some sleep - email the list about the printer thing, perhaps?
<mdke> okay!
<Madpilot> talk to you later
<mdke> night
<jsgotangco> mdke: new documentation wiki???
<mdke> sorry?
<jsgotangco> new wiki gets merged with help?
<mdke> just miss out the word "new"
<jsgotangco> wiki gets to be under help.ubuntu.com?
<mdke> yes...
<mdke> we've been talking about that for 6 months or so
<jsgotangco> ah i'm so zoned out of all this infrastructure talk im not having fun anymore
<mdke> me neither
<mdke> let's just make some good docs
<jsgotangco> that's what i'm doing
<mdke> i didn't mean to suggest you weren't :)
<mdke> i know you are
<jsgotangco> :D
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> nm killed my network
<jsgotangco> lol
<LaserJock> mdke: Kamion mdke: it's the d-i installation manual
<LaserJock> mdke: I looked it up myself
<LaserJock> it is the documentation for the debian installer
<LaserJock> so I don't think it is of any use to Ubuntu
<LaserJock> hmm, guess I was wrong :(
<LaserJock> mdke: I think Kamion has a good point. We perhaps should collect some of the Debian docs (at least links) and put them somewhere on help.u.c
<jsgotangco> its basically d-i with some string changes
<jsgotangco> but its no different to the breezy manual
<jsgotangco> the request is reasonable though
* jsgotangco is about to reply to the email
<LaserJock> I think we should make a place on doc.ubuntu.com where we just set up catagorized links to the debian docs.
<jsgotangco> mdke: so are we going to put this?
<jsgotangco> its pretty trivial imo
<jsgotangco> but horribly out of place in our current setup
<jsgotangco> doh
<jsgotangco> i'll just reply to this email
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I think he'll be back, he was having connection problems
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I just sent a RE: to your RE: ;-) hope it makes sense
<jsgotangco> heh its 1am nothing makes sense to me now
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> well it's only 0900 here so I have no excuse
<LaserJock> now I feel dumb. :(
<theCore> hello LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi theCore 
<theCore> I'm so lucky, or actually unlucky
<theCore> I had hard drive failure, this week
<theCore> I lost many files, but none from PackagingGuide
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> another one?
<theCore> ya, this one is due to aggressive shutdown technics
<LaserJock> jeeze, you need to be more careful about your hard drives ;-)
<theCore> do you remember my little stupid brother ? (the one spamed #ubuntu and -offtopic). Now, because I lock my screen every time I quit my computer. He decide to shutdown to computer by removing the power cord. 
<LaserJock> ouch
<theCore> yea
<theCore> ouch
<LaserJock> how old is he?
<theCore> 16, I think
<LaserJock> hmm, I would probably thoroughly thrash him. 
<theCore> I did ;)
<LaserJock> Is he going to pay for a new hard drive?
<theCore> the hard drive is okay
<theCore> actually, it's my inode table that is scraped
<LaserJock> ahh, what FS?
<theCore> ext2 
<theCore> ext3
<theCore> I'm trying to find a way to repair it manually, right now
<LaserJock> hmm, seems odd. I've had ok luck with ext3 and power outages etc.
<theCore> He did that, at least 5 times, this week. I had to left my computer open because I was compiling Seamonkey
<LaserJock> ohhh, I would have been soooo upset.
<theCore> I will get over it, at least my personals files haven't been too damaged
<theCore> I lost one or two trival files
<theCore> anyways, now I need to find a way to recover my files from my hd
<theCore> I only got one cdrw, and its already used for the LiveCD, 
<theCore> I going to make a tarball and upload it to my gmail account 
<theCore> viva the 2GB storage
<LaserJock> how big will the tarball be?
<theCore> 200 MB
<theCore> more or least
<theCore> less*
<theCore> It suck like backup technic, but at least its get to work done
<LaserJock> oh, that's not too bad. My ~/ is about 1GB tarballed 
<theCore> mine too
<theCore> but I stripping, all my "downloadables"
<theCore> I'm*
<robotgeek> hey theCore LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi robotgeek  
<theCore> boujour rebotgeek
<robotgeek> salut theCore 
<theCore> robotgeek, oh
<robotgeek> theCore: i don't know french, but picked this up :)
<theCore> yea, I thought so
<LaserJock> yeah, I've picked up a little French and German from those crazy MOTUs :-)
<theCore> lol
<robotgeek> :)
<robotgeek> damn, i really need to put this box out of it's "windows" misery. problem is, it's not my box :)
<theCore> Cette phrase n'est pas faite pour tre comprise. :)
<LaserJock> lol, I had to use babelfish on it ;-)
<robotgeek> theCore: google translate of this sucks :)
<LaserJock> robotgeek: babelfish.altavista.com is what I usually use.
<theCore> I expected that
<LaserJock> robotgeek: what did you get?
<robotgeek> This sentence is not made to be included/understood :) 
<robotgeek> it's probably "meant"
<LaserJock> same as babelfish
<theCore> ( This sentence isn't meant to be understood )
<theCore> I need a latin translator
<robotgeek> theCore: that ways you could have "security by obsucrity" :)
* robotgeek gets back to work
<robotgeek> learned ones, ping :)
<Burgwork> robotgeek, hmm?
<robotgeek> Burgwork: hmm, i was wondering what is better a) adept guide as a separate chapter in KDG b) or just link to it
<robotgeek> with a) it would resemble the structure of Ubuntu DG
<Burgwork> adept should be in a section called "Installation", not "Adept"
<Burgwork> along with discussions of apt-get, etc.
<robotgeek> true
<robotgeek> i'll just put it in there for now, and talk with jjesse later
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-01
<LaserJock> ohh, sweet. I just got yelp installed in OSX!
<robotgeek> LaserJock: wow!
<robotgeek> fink?
<LaserJock> hmm, false alarm. I've got yelp installed using darwin ports but it won't open any files
<robotgeek> LaserJock: is that the same as fink? it's been long since i've used OS X
<LaserJock> its a bit different. fink uses dpkg and apt and has binary packages (which means I can't use it right now) but darwin ports uses the BSD ports system with source.
<robotgeek> LaserJock: ah, okay. 
<LaserJock> but I just saw on the fink website they have a preliminary build for macintels so I'll have to try that out.
<robotgeek> LaserJock: ah, a mac book pro?
<LaserJock> no intel iMac
<robotgeek> hmm, nice
<LaserJock> so far it is pretty cool
<LaserJock> but it would be nice if I could dual-boot with Ubuntu
<robotgeek> i need to get linux installed on the nicer computer, writing anything on 12" screens suck
<robotgeek> it sucks more when you actually have the bigger screen right in front of the 12", lol
<LaserJock> yeah, i've got 17' widescreen. I wish I could've got the 20"
* Madpilot hugs his 19" CRT :)
<Madpilot> lovely thing, but a !#$% to move around - weighs a tonne
<robotgeek> true, i had once of those back in the univ
<LaserJock> yeah, we've got about 6 19" CRTs sitting around in the lab
<Madpilot> in a year or so I'll replace it with a flatscreen of some sort - I don't like most LCDs, though. They're fuzzy compared to a good CRT
<robotgeek> unless i have to do some graphic art, i';; take a LCD
<LaserJock> I'd switch to flatpanel just for the space.
<Madpilot> The way my desk is contructed, I'd have room for dual 19" LCDs, which would/will be a lot of fun
<Madpilot> *constructed, even... :P
<LaserJock> nice
<LaserJock> new profs here are getting dual flatpanels with there start up money.
<Burgwork> s/there/their
<LaserJock> Burgwork: thanks ;-)
<robotgeek> heh
* robotgeek googles for ibook external monitor hack
<LaserJock> IRC sure makes my spelling go to heck
<robotgeek> howto even
<Madpilot> Burgwork: aren't you supposed to be working?
<Burgwork> nah
<LaserJock> I can hook up another flatpanel to my iMac. That would be fun.
<LaserJock> Madpilot: did you attach any meat with that last email?
<LaserJock> or were we supposed to just imagine the diff?
<Madpilot> LaserJock: just resent w/ file... :|
* Burgwork might actually start thinking about thinking about commiting to the archive soon
<LaserJock> anybody around to commit Brian's patch?
<LaserJock> Madpilot: any word on your svn access?
<Madpilot> nope
<LaserJock> I thought Mark had elmo fix that. :-|
<LaserJock> Madpilot: done
<Burgwork> LaserJock, remember to email as well
<Madpilot> LaserJock: you're waiting for commit as well, right?
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I did, before I said  done ;-)
<Burgwork> ah, hadn't hit yet
<Madpilot> LaserJock: nevermind, I see you've got commit rights :P
<LaserJock> yeah, it took forever but I got 'em
<LaserJock> anybody know how to adjust tables in docbook?
<LaserJock> what do you guys use for spell checking .xml files?
<Burglaptop> my eyes
<Madpilot> I spellcheck by eye in Yelp
<LaserJock> you Burger's must have had great english teachers ;-)
<LaserJock> s/Burger's/Burgers/
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: how many teachers is our family again?
<Madpilot> in? umm... most of the family? :P
<LaserJock> hmm, I see
<Madpilot> one grandfather was a teacher & principal, Mom was a teacher, one aunt & one grandmother both taught nursing, Dad teaches university... there's more I'm forgetting about, I think :D
<LaserJock> hmm, not in my family. 
<LaserJock> I'm pretty much the first to go to college other than one of my grandfathers
<Burglaptop> ironically, neither my brother nor I have finished university
<LaserJock> black sheep of the family, eh?
<Madpilot> we're compensating for the weight of all those degrees in the older generations
<Burglaptop> hmm, I just realized that Userfuls logo fails one of a key tests of logos
<Burglaptop> http://www.desktoplinuxsummit.com/sponsors.php
<Burglaptop> scroll down
<Madpilot> Burglaptop: not sure what you mean...
<Burglaptop> see that it needs to be one a white background?
<Madpilot> yeah, you and Trolltech
<Burglaptop> yep
<Burglaptop> logos should look good regardless of background
<Madpilot> http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9075-2051196,00.html <-- amusing
<Burglaptop> robitaille: bon soir
<robitaille> Hi Burglaptop 
<Burglaptop> does aptitude deal with .debs?
<Burglaptop> ie, can it replace it dpkg?
<robitaille> I thought aptitude was like synaptic.  
<Burglaptop> yes, it was
<robitaille> I tried it once 3 years ago, so memory is a a foggy
<crimsun> afaict it's still another front end to apt, which is a frontend to dpkg
<Burglaptop> hmm
* Burglaptop waits for smart
<Kamping_Kaiser> is anyone else having config-system.xml not validating? (brb though)
* Burglaptop spanks Kamping_Kaiser for even daring to discuss docs in this channel ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :S
<Kamping_Kaiser> brb again 
<Burglaptop> Kamping_Kaiser: in all seriousness, if you are not getting it to validate, I would try deleting the file and re-downloading it, then try again. If it still doesn't validate, look for the bug
<Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: UDG's config-system.xml validates here - latest SVN
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot: ok. I'll try getting the file again.
<Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: you are talking about the Ubuntu Desktop's one, and not the Kubuntu DG's file?
<Madpilot> they've got identical filenames...
<LaserJock> do you validate the individual .xml files? or the doc as a whole?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot: yes. i validated again and it worked. must be related to wokring dir :/
<Kamping_Kaiser> i just did the 1
<Madpilot> LaserJock: I always just validate desktopguide.xml, that pulls everything else in
<LaserJock> Madpilot: that's what I do too but I wondered if there would be a difference. I wouldn't think so.
<Kamping_Kaiser> (ubuntu) desktop-guide.xml validates, but config-system.xml wont - does that mean it's not supposed to be validated on it's own?
<Burglaptop> possibly
<Madpilot> quite likely; DocBook like this seems all interconnected in ways I haven't yet figured out
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. I'll try and remember to validate stuff like d-g.xml, not individual files :/
<Madpilot> just run the same path/to/file.xml thru both Yelp and the validator
* Kamping_Kaiser seems to have a special skill for breaking docbook. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> does docbook have comments?
<Madpilot> same as HTML comments <!-- comment -->
<jsgotangco> ordinary HTML comments work
<Kamping_Kaiser> ta
<LaserJock> do you guys use a lot of comments when you're writing?
<Madpilot> not really
<Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: what're you working on?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot: i decided to have a play with config-system.xml. and i broke it quite nicely
<Kamping_Kaiser> and i think i just unbroke it.
<Madpilot> hey, I've submitted patches that I *knew* didn't validate, because it was late and someone else could solve the damn thing... :P
<LaserJock> can someone take a look at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ch05.html#id2566611 . Is there a way to adjust the column widths?
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol Madpilot
<Kamping_Kaiser> docbook is so cool :O it does stuff
<Madpilot> LaserJock: in HTML there is, not sure what works in DocBook
<LaserJock> hmm, it just looks ugly and I'm not sure what to do with it
<robotgeek> LaserJock: where's the css?
<LaserJock> robotgeek: umm, I don't know exactly.
<LaserJock> it's the common css
<robotgeek> LaserJock: how does it actually get to the server? 
<LaserJock> robotgeek: it gets built by a cron job
<Madpilot> voodoo
<Burglaptop> goat and virgin sacrifice
<LaserJock> libs/ubuntu-book.css is my guess, looking at ubuntu/Makefile
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: you'd think we have similar taste in humour or something :P
<robotgeek> LaserJock: so, basically that css would need to be modified
<LaserJock> robotgeek: why not the .xml
<Madpilot> Burglaptop: or something :)
<robotgeek> LaserJock: why would it be in xml? 
<Burglaptop> LaserJock: docbook is designed not to have any presentation/layout stuff in it
<robotgeek> LaserJock: same as with latex, and style files
<Burglaptop> or xhtml and css
<robotgeek> to each his own :)
<LaserJock> ok fine, I just was looking at the Definitive Guide
<Kamping_Kaiser>  /etc/cups/cupsd.conf in Breezy and dapper are very different. does anyone know if there's a major difference in how it works? not much point trying to write about cups (from my Breezy experiance) if it's changed for dapper
<robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: get dapper :)
<LaserJock> and it has stuff like colspec colwidth='0.5in'/>
<Kamping_Kaiser> robotgeek: i have dapper, but no printer for it ;)
<robotgeek> LaserJock: link to chapter?
<robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: ah, okay
<LaserJock> robotgeek: http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/informaltable.html
<LaserJock> and what about in yelp, it looks equally as bad in yelp.
<robotgeek> LaserJock: hmm, weird. i always assumed that it was evil to do that in xml
<LaserJock> robotgeek: well, that might be. It always seems like they open up the oppritunity for those of use that like to tweak the layout, and tempt us to write bad code :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> how would i make docbook treat this <Location /> as part of the text, not a docbook tag?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: http://www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook/markup.html#d369e653
<Kamping_Kaiser> do i escape it some how?
<robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: i'm looking it up, one sec
<LaserJock> I just use &lt; and &gt;
<Kamping_Kaiser> LaserJock: what do they do? (apart from validate)
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: less than (<) and greater than (>)
<robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: < is a reserved character, &lt; 
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. thanks all. it validates now :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i started knocking up something on printer sharing (which I'll try out now). should i make it a wiki page? or post it to the list, or some other method of geting feedback?
<Burglaptop> Kamping_Kaiser: wiki is a good place
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. 
* Kamping_Kaiser goes to learn wiki syntax
<LaserJock> there's syntax?
<Kamping_Kaiser> well it's not strait html
<LaserJock> I didn't think it was anything
<HrdwrBoB> it's pretty simple
<HrdwrBoB> take you all of about 10 minutes to learn
<Madpilot> tables are odd syntax in moinmoin; everything else is fairly straightforward
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. I'm about to try out the insturctions i wrote then I'll try and ifnd a logical name for it in the wiki :)
<Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: there are already wiki pages for XP->Ubuntu and Ubuntu->XP printer sharing, not sure there's anthing for Ubuntu->Ubuntu sharing though
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot: I'm about to try it. i havent seen any ubuntu - linux one (ubuntu/Debian is what i can help with)
<Madpilot> cool
<Burglaptop> sadly, not as easy as it should be
<Burglaptop> dapper
<Burglaptop> +1 should have zeroconf love
<Kamping_Kaiser> mmm. sweet
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. *takes it on trust that gksudo gedit works, as it wont work over x11 forwarding
<Burglaptop> it does
<Kamping_Kaiser> it didnt work here :/
<Madpilot> it works on a regular desktop, anyway
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. anyway.
* Kamping_Kaiser hits 'test page' and walks up to the house to see if it did print
<dsas> just to check: if a program is in main, then I don't need to say "get blah from the main repository" do I?
<crimsun> "install blah" should suffice.
<crimsun> it makes more sense to omit main and only mention universe and multiverse, since they're not explicitly enabled in net-aware installs
<dsas> thanks, just checking
<crimsun> (make sure that assumption is noted clearly, though)
<dsas> hmm, from what I can see it's used in the rest of the document.
<crimsun> then be consistent w/ the rest of the document
<mdke_> Madpilot, any thoughts on what dsas and crimsun were just talking about?
<mdke_> afaik, we're doing a bit of both right now, there is no consistency
<Madpilot> mdke_: we should probably go thru UDG and edit it to one style
<Madpilot> I like crimsun's point about leaving main/restricted out, because they're available by default
<mdke_> so do I
<mdke_> let's do that
* mdke_ plays with the idea of updating his work system to dapper
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> i wouldnt do that yet
<mdke> dapper is dodgy still?
<mdke> looks alright
<mdke> maybe i'll give it a bit longer
<jsgotangco> oh its pretty stable
<jsgotangco> especially flight4
<mdke> well i can't update to a milestone
<jsgotangco> there are just a few stuff that are still dodgy for me
<mdke> i can only update to the latest dapper
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> my FF for instance seems to have this xul interface error
<mdke> yes that's quite common i believe
<mdke> i wonder if we should use the yelp stylesheets for building html, things like <note> and stuff look really nice
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> cool mvo uploaded latest g-a-i
* mdke sighs
<mdke> i suppose we're going to have to get round documenting backports
<jsgotangco> why?
<mdke> well, people use them don't they?
<jsgotangco> are ubuntu backports safe already?
<mdke> they are as safe as the unstable version
<jsgotangco> ahh well
<mdke> although, we don't document that either right now in the DesktopGuide
<jsgotangco> good night
<theCore> mdke, what is the deadline for the documentation ?
<mdke> theCore, March 23
<mdke> a whole month
<mdke> :)
<theCore> that quite soon
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
<theCore> thanks
<mdke> the docs are looking rather good
<mdke> they'll be in time
<mdke> hey there LaserJock 
<mdke> get my email about validate.sh?
<theCore> I understand know why they say the release cycles are short and furious :)
<LaserJock> umm, yes I did.
<mdke> cool
<mdke> why umm?
<LaserJock> I will try to finish the copyright stuff today.
<LaserJock> because I had to think about it
<mdke> he3h
<LaserJock> I've got so much to do
<mdke> :)
<mdke> just do one script, and I'll copy and paste it to the others, if you like
<LaserJock> I was talking about other things I need to do. MOTU stuff, etc.
<mdke> sure, but if you can save time on this, you can spend more on those
<LaserJock> but I like this :-)
<mdke> ah, np then
<LaserJock> I would like to "fix" something. I've been helping out but it would be nice to see something through to completion. You know what I mean?
<mdke> yep
<LaserJock> mdke: ok, question. Is the Sean Wheller the copyright holder for validate.sh ? It just has him a author?
<mdke> i guess so then
<mdke> Burgwork, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation?action=diff <-- is the book going to be published online?
<mdke> actually scratch that
* mdke reverts
<LaserJock> mdke: how does http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9254 look?
<mdke> LaserJock, looks great, if you're happy
<LaserJock> I am
<LaserJock> I'll just apply that to the translate.sh scripts. The .css files I think should already have proper copyright headers but I'll double check just to make sure
<mdke> cool, thanks for your work on this
<Burgwork> mdke, the book will be under our licenses, from what I understand
<theCore> Burgwork, the book ? a printed one?
<LaserJock> mdke: np, I know how fickle devs can be about copyright. I wouldn't want elmo to take issue with ubuntu-docs ;-)
<mdke> Burgwork, yeah, but i was trying to understand the link added to UserDocumentation. I've removed it for now, because there is no material on the page that was linked
<mdke> LaserJock, yay
<mdke> does one spell apt-get with capital letters in a section title?
<mdke> answers on a postcard
<LaserJock> theCore: do you have any patches to send me? or are you still trying to recover from your little brother?
<theCore> I'm still trying to recover, I'm going to install dapper, so it may take a little bit of time, before I can continue working on the PG
<LaserJock> theCore: could you just tar up the packagingguide directory and send it to me? I can at least take a look at it while your recovering ;-)
<theCore> okay
<theCore> but I warn you, it still clumsy
<LaserJock> np
<Burgwork> mdke, I didn't add any link
<Burgwork> theCore, yes, a printed one. Working title "The Official Ubuntu book"
<theCore> ooh, cool
<mdke> Burgwork, no, I know.
<mdke> that's a terrible title :/
* mdke puts the word "official" in a bag and jumps on it
<theCore> So, what will be the content of it?
<Burgwork> mdke, we (the authors) are being paid by canonical
<Burgwork> theCore, words ;)
<theCore> lol
<Burgwork> maybe even English words, but I cannot say
<mdke> Burgwork, i'm afraid that is not going to stop me hating the use of the word "official"
<theCore> so, it won't be a community driven effort ?
<mdke> it is totally meaningless
<Burgwork> we are planning on getting fairly wide reviewing effort, announced shortly
<theCore> just "The Ubuntu Book" would be nicier 
<Burgwork> I said working title, not final title
<theCore> oh, ok
<mdke> if you hadn't, I wouldn't have bothered voicing an objection :)
<Burgwork> you would have just quietly stewed?
<mdke> sure
<mdke> ok i'm off home
<mdke> later all
<LaserJock> cya mdke 
<LaserJock> I should commit the copyright changes soon
<theCore> I really starting to regret that I didn't went to UBZ ... :/
<theCore> It was at 30 min of my home
<LaserJock> theCore: really? I would have gone if it had been that close.
<LaserJock> mostly because I needed to get my gpg key signed
<theCore> lol
<theCore> I hope, they make another one at Montreal (but I don't expect they will)
<LaserJock> I'm hoping for one in Las Vegas
<Burgwork> almost never going to happen in the US
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I know :(
<Burgwork> too many canonical employees would probably refuse to go
<theCore> why so ?
<theCore> oh
<theCore> political reasons?
<LaserJock> it's a pity though because it might be helpful.
<LaserJock> theCore: I think software patent reasons.
<theCore> I see
<Burgwork> no, political reasons
<Burgwork> all that fingerprinting and other crap
<theCore> LaserJock, see I was right ;-)
<theCore> fingerprinting?
<Burgwork> also, I understand Mark is a greylisted because he flew out of the US once without getting permission
<Burgwork> theCore, we are Canadian, we never see any of the nasty side of US Homeland Insecurity
<LaserJock> hmm, I just don't see the problem, but then I'm an American so I'm already on the inside ;-)
<Burgwork> for instance, canonical will pay extra for plane tickets to not fly through the US
<LaserJock> is it really that bad? that just seems stupid IMO. but to each his own I guess
<Burgwork> LaserJock, Canadians and US citizens are usually rather insulated as to the realities of what DHS does at the border
<LaserJock> Burgwork: yes, but people come and go all the time. I don't think Canonical list somehow special in that regard.
<LaserJock> s/list/is/
<Burgwork> LaserJock, yes, but business travellers are slightly different and you don;t think that business travels who are non-white don't still get searched/given the 9th degree?
<LaserJock> but they get in, they get out. sure it's a pain but they are going to exclude the US from hosting a dev conference over it?
<Burgwork> yes, they are and it is a sound decision
<Burgwork> in addition, in pratical matters, there are for more hackers in Europe and thus it is cheaper to hold a conference there
<LaserJock> Burgwork: well, it is up to them. I can just choose to disagree ;-)
<LaserJock> I just usually bite my tongue as I know that most people will probably disagree with me. I don't want to make a big stink over it. I just find it personally highly frustrating and not in the Ubuntu spirit. But I'll be done with it now and let you get  back to work.
<Burgwork> ompaul, are you working on the website FAQ still?
<ompaul> Burgwork, I want to - can we talk in about an hour
<Burgwork> ompaul, just tell me when you are done working onit
<ompaul> k
<theCore> LaserJock, I sent my tarball
<LaserJock> theCore: got it, thanks.
<theCore> nice, LaserJock check `Screenshot 15: Yelp' in this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight4
<theCore> Dapper is rocking like hell
<LaserJock> theCore: cool 
<LaserJock> it's been a fun ride with Dapper, Breezy was a little rough.
<LaserJock> theCore: did you work on anything but getting_started.xml?
<theCore> nope
* robotgeek gets back to more documenting, lol
<ompaul> Burgwork, I had a question about the faq, is it reasonable for the FAQ to point to pages on the wiki?
<theCore> LaserJock, so is it good or bad? (don't be gentle)
<LaserJock> theCore: still looking, I'll tell you in a minute :-)
<robotgeek_work> Burgwork: do you know if someone is working on the apt section in the Ubuntu Desktop Guide?
<Burgwork> yes and no idea
* robotgeek_work doesn't want to duplicate work :)
<theCore> here we go, I nuke my Ubuntu partition *boom*
<LaserJock> theCore: I like it, I'm going to do some work on it and get it committed.
<theCore> nice
<theCore> I need to work on the diff and patch
<theCore> section
<theCore> LaserJock, you might find this article interesting: http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110008002
<theCore> it's about thing we talked earlier (US security politics)
<theCore> the thing*
<LaserJock> theCore: yeah, I haven't had to fly much but I've been through Denver, Kansas City, Dallas, and Washington D.C. in the last year. I've had the "extra attention" most of the time. I don't mind too much. I've never even been close to missing a flight because of security. It's a pain but security measures, wherever they are (banks, police stations, etc.), are rarely convenient.
<theCore> I find Linux security measures are convenient :)
<LaserJock> I don't
<theCore> really?
<theCore> I find them transparent
<theCore> one password and that is
<theCore> the rest is handled by the system
<LaserJock> well, I guess it depends. At my uni I can't run chats, .torrents, and a lot of other things on standard ports because they are blocked
<LaserJock> that is a case where it is inconvenient
<LaserJock> also our department policy is that we have to log into the department server before we can ssh to our comps from the outside
<Burgwork> I find airport security annoying and degrading
<LaserJock> that is inconvenient as well
<Burgwork> the assumption that I am a terrorist before I prove that i am not
<theCore> well, that's company security mesures, not linux one
<LaserJock> theCore: true, but it affects linux comps :(
<theCore> not just linux computer, also windows
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I think the idea is that the only way you can prove that you are is to blow something up and so it is more "safe" to prove you aren't. but that is just how I understand it
<Burgwork> but 99.9% of the people flying are not terrorists
<Burgwork> and the amount of money to stop a few deaths are not worth it, in my view
<Burgwork> plus, reactive is the wrong way to end "terrorism"
<theCore> that a problem in our societies, we don't accept dead
<theCore> s/dead/deaths/
<LaserJock> theCore: not from terrorists, no. I don't anyway
<theCore> it would be a good idea to find the acceptable number of deaths for our lifestyle
<LaserJock> theCore: from terrorists, 0
<theCore> LaserJock, get used to it, as poor peoples will be crushed by the giant, the anger will grow
<LaserJock> anyway, it probably isn't great to talk politics here, it is quite OT
<theCore> yep
<theCore> a
<theCore> it's a pain in the ass
<LaserJock> security sucks, but sometimes it's worth it. society just have to figure out the balance it is comfortable with.
<theCore> the problem is that there always will be flaw in it, and those will be used by terrorists
<theCore> so, for who the security is good for?
<dsas> "them"
<LaserJock> theCore: well, you gotta be realistic. Often you can do simple things to make it difficult for terrorists. You don't have to make it easy for them. Sure there are flaws, but that doesn't mean you abandon the whole thing.
<theCore> LaserJock, I'm saying it they should abandon the whole thing. They should just try to make security transparent for the normal peoples. Perfect security doesn't exist, useless you close the airport
<dm> hi guys, this place was advised as the best to offer help on the ubuntu project. what would you guys suggest is the best way to get involved
<LaserJock> theCore: yeah, I'm sure things could go better. Most of the airports in the US are fine. It isn't a problem. I think they just have scaling issues. It is much harder to do they the things they are doing at the major aiports.
<Burgwork> dm, wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingUbuntu
* Burgwork points theCore and LaserJock at dm (ie, stop discussing off topic matters)
<LaserJock> Burgwork: right
<theCore> :)
<theCore> dm, what are your skills?
<dm> real noob to be honest, but i;m interested in getting involved. i have some experience in wireless networking, 
<theCore> dm, are willing to learn a lot? ;)
<dm> but not IRC etiquete, etc, 
<dm> of course, always willing to learn, Linux has been my home every since problems with win
<dm> tried almost every distribution, ubuntu seems to be the most user friendly. what was the idea behind the project? a easy to use debian?
<theCore> dm, well we need help with the packaging guide, but if you never packaged before it will be hard for you ...
<theCore> a linux distro that just works
<dm> as in APT packaging? have done a little RPM unpacking, but i don;t expect that counts..
<theCore> check file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html for the rest
<LaserJock> dm: I think there is quite a bit of work on wireless networking in Ubuntu so I'm sure they need testers/bug reporters 
<theCore> unpacking?
<theCore> you mean installing, right?
<dm> mmm ok, well i will to offer my help there,
<theCore> the writing tips in the wiki is good place to start
<dm> it this file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html, not the idea behind every *free* distro
<theCore> officials docs are a bit harder 
<dm> cool, ok, i will read the tips before i bother you guys any more with this,,, was just an idea on a friday night in with a beer. although i expect quite a bit of work/time is required on my part. i was just will to offer my help when avalible, i will read the docs and if i have an questions i know where to find you guys
<theCore> dm, for example, because you tried *every* distro, you could write a wiki tell how ubuntu is different
<theCore> dm, I'm glad to see you involved
<dm> thats an interesting, idea, now i certainly did not try every distro, but i thought the idea *behind* every distro was similar to ubuntu's ethos... out of all the distro i personally tried ubuntu seemed the best from a noob point of view
<dm> i would be more than happy to discuss my findings, and share my results. now the thing is ubuntu worked great for me where other distros let me down but...... other distros seem to work great for different sets of people. obvously hardware is issue.
<nedschnittt> would anyone mind if I asked a quick question about a problem I'm having with the ubuntu installation or should I direct my question elsewhere?
<nedschnittt> I was in the #ubuntu chat and I couldn't get a real answer...I'm still a bit of a noob when it comes to linux
<robotgeek> mdke: ping
<ompaul> is there a minimum hardware wiki page anyone can point me at?
<ompaul> requirements that is
<robotgeek> hey ompaul , one sec
<ompaul> robotgeek, okay
<Burgwork> ompaul, we should have a getting ubuntu page
<robotgeek> ompaul: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes
<ompaul> thanks guys
<ompaul> Burgwork, I have done what I can at the moment if anyone wants to have a look at -- the only thing I am concerned about is I took out the removal of xfree and made it sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<Burgwork> ompaul, sorry, don't follow
<ompaul> Burgwork, I have done what I can with the faq - there was a sudo apt-get remove --purge xserver-xfree I replaced it with the xorg line
<ompaul> it may not be needed any more
<Burgwork> ompaul, I would yank it entirely
<Burgwork> replace it with something about xgl and aiglx
* ompaul runs away screaming dapper in the faq noooooo
<Burgwork> it is an faq
<ompaul> okay 
<robotgeek> heh, no one wants to commit my patches :)
<LaserJock> well, if they weren't so huge ;-)
<robotgeek> this time, they arent that big :)
<robotgeek> konversation is nice
<robotgeek> bigger screens are even nicer :)
<LaserJock> yeah, konversation is ok. I still like irssi and xchat the best.
<robotgeek> i prefer irssi too, just giving this a whirl
<LaserJock> I like how in xchat you can see the away status of people
<robotgeek> you can see in konversation too?
<robotgeek> the ones away are lightened out?
<crimsun> this firewall is wrecking my attempts to easily use svn.
* crimsun sighs and ssh -Ls
<LaserJock> crimsun: that stinks
<robotgeek> hey crimsun, howdy
<crimsun> 'lo robotgeek 
<LaserJock> robotgeek: so far I haven't found a irc client for OSX as good as xchat/konversation
<robotgeek> LaserJock: that colloqouy or whatever isn't good?
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-02
<LaserJock> robotgeek: it's ok and it uses an irssi engine supposedly, but it doesn't show the away status :(
<robotgeek> LaserJock: as in the away "message" or just plain away?
<LaserJock> robotgeek: as in, in the users list I can't tell if people are away or not. 
<robotgeek> LaserJock: hmm, okay. konversation (dapper) seems to be working fine
<LaserJock> yeah,  I loved having a konsole tab
<LaserJock> but now I have to find OSX alternatives, or at least find OSX ports :(
<robotgeek> i suppose you are using irssi in OS X
<crimsun> as in http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/xchat ?
<crimsun> (or http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/konversation )
<LaserJock> crimsun: fink doesn't really work for me yet. but I just found an xchat-aqua
<LaserJock> hmm, brb
<LaserJock> oh, very nice.
<robotgeek> howdy Madpilot
<LaserJock> hi Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi
<Burgwork> salut Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi Burgwork - I'm home with a bug, lucky me... :P
<dsas> I'm sure there's a malone joke to be made there somewhere.
<LaserJock> lol
<Burgwork> oh joy
<LaserJock> I had sistpoty sponsor an upload of bugsx for me, but he said that he sure hated uploading bugs ;-)
<Burgwork> remind me not to talk to you for at few days, I need to finish this bloody book
<Madpilot> Burgwork: your response is very generous :P
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I'm sure it will be really cool once it's done though. I look forward to it
<mdke> robotgeek, pong
<mdke> LaserJock, nice work on that copyright stuff
<Madpilot> LaserJock: have we changed all the docs over to GPL, then? I thought  most of them were still dual CC-By-SA/GFDL?
<LaserJock> Madpilot: no
<Burgwork> Madpilot, no
<LaserJock> Madpilot: the Packaging Guide is the only GPL'd doc
<Madpilot> so why do we need the GPL stuff in the UDG?
<mdke> Madpilot, it's just the scripts that are gpl
<LaserJock> I GPL'd the shell scripts
<LaserJock> and the Makefiles
<LaserJock> mdke: the only thing I am still concerned about is the .css files
<Madpilot> OK, I misunderstood the commit emails, then
<Madpilot> never mind
<LaserJock> mdke: some of them are GPL'd but others seem to be sort of PD and some don't have anything
<LaserJock> Madpilot: might have just been my commit logs confusing you :(
<mdke> LaserJock, right. they are possibly based on the ubuntu css...
<mdke> i'll have a closer look tomorrow
<LaserJock> mdke: so I really don't know what to do with them. Technically I think we should have something. But it really doesn't seem like a big deal
<LaserJock> mdke: other than that I think we are set as far as the ubuntu-docs package. Kubuntu has similar issues but I didn't know if I should mess around there
<mdke> it might be worth pointing it out to jjesse or Riddell
<LaserJock> mdke: I was thinking about that. I wonder if they are up?
<mdke> riddell is always up
<LaserJock> true :-)
<mdke> but emailing the list will work too
<mdke> -> bed
<LaserJock> yeah, for some reason I just haven't gotten used to emailing. I read them a lot but I just tend to not send any.
<LaserJock> cya mdke
* rob drops in 
<LaserJock> hi rob
<rob> hi LaserJock 
<Burgwork> hey rob, long time, no see
<rob> yeah, I float around
<rob> work has been smashing me lately
<Madpilot> could someone commit manicka's UDG diff, please?
<crimsun> LaserJock: I should be working with generic/packagingguide/C, correct?
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah
<LaserJock> crimsun: sorry, the universities Laser Safety Officer came by :(
<Madpilot> LaserJock: and told you to take the lasers off the shark's heads? :P
<crimsun> LaserJock: thanks
<LaserJock> Madpilot: actually yeah, we had to replace our cool "shark with laser" warning sign with a boring one
<crimsun> now is just reads "jordan with laser" :-P
<crimsun> s/is/it/
<LaserJock> crimsun: I think it should have my Hackergotchi on LP :-)
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/mantha
<crimsun> haha
<LaserJock> crimsun: are you looking at a specific part of the packaging guide or just reviewing it?
<crimsun> right now I'm fighting termcap, but I'll be reviewing it
<LaserJock> brb, gotta so some quick wavelength separation ;-)
<crimsun> is there specific portion(s) you want me to prioritise?
<crimsun> is(are)
<LaserJock> crimsun: no, just the parts that are written ;-) also I'd like you opinion on the overall outline
<crimsun> k.
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't suppose any of you guys know how to use a Pellin Broca prism?
<LaserJock> ah, wikipedia know ;-)
* Burgwork watches Madpilot go to town on people in #ubuntu
<rob> nasty
<Madpilot> hey, I only kicked one person - kicking people for rank stupidity isn't actually allowed :P
<LaserJock> Madpilot: flexing those newly CC approved muscles? ;-)
<Madpilot> well, for stupidity of the "I'm a noob and can't read docs" variety
<Madpilot> LaserJock: just a bit - someone spammed four away messages in about two minutes, so they had to leave...
<Burgwork> #ubuntu is hopping right now
<LaserJock> Madpilot: man, they need you over in #bzr, there was somebody disconnecting and reconnecting every few minutes for days
<manicka> in some sections of the desktop guide it says in a note - You must use Synaptic Package Manager to install this package
<manicka> should those be in or out?
<Madpilot> manicka: in - those should be on things that aren't in Add Applications
<manicka> ah, ok
<LaserJock> Madpilot: but you don't have to use Synaptic for them, maybe it is better to say that you can't use Add Applications?
<Madpilot> it's a desktop guide, we're sticking with the GUI stuff for simplicity
<Burgwork> we advocate a gui solution over any other
<Burgwork> if you know about apt-get, you likely already know that you can install those packages via that
<Madpilot> I think there's a short apt-get section in the Adding Applications chapter, though
<manicka> wouldn't a link to Adding, Removing and Updating Applications be better
<Burgwork> manicka, that involves a lot of extra clicking by the user
<Burgwork> sometimes you just have to provide a good default and stick with it
<manicka> there's nothing in the apt-get section
<Burgwork> Madpilot, so restore pretty much blew me off today. Most annoyed
<Madpilot> Burgwork: not interested in getting into computers?
<LaserJock> I was more thinking along the lines of what if we have another GUI package manager. I guess we could cross that bridge when we get there.
<Burgwork> "they would have to talk about it"
<robotgeek> mdke: nothing actually, i forgot to compress my patch file, however the situation corrected itself
<robotgeek> mdke: who do i have to speak to about commit access?
<LaserJock> robotgeek: I think currently you need to have mdke or a doc team member send a request to elmo, I think. and then you wait
<robotgeek> LaserJock: ah, okay
<Madpilot> ...and wait, and wait... :P
<Burgwork> robotgeek, are you already a member of Ubuntu-doc on LP?
<robotgeek> Burgwork: only the wiki team, i think. i applied to join, never heard of what happened
<LaserJock> Burgwork: he is a fresh Ubuntu member though
<robotgeek> You are a proposed member of this team. To become an active member your subscription has to bo approved by one of the team's administrators. You can't join this team.
<Madpilot> Burgwork: you're an LP admin for -doc, aren't you?
<Burgwork> for both doc and wiki
<Burgwork> mdke, any objections to making robotgeek a member of ubunut-doc?
<Burgwork> robotgeek, what is your LP name?
<LaserJock> Madpilot: who needed something committed?
<robotgeek> https://launchpad.net/people/robotgeek
<Madpilot> LaserJock: manicka sent a diff to the list
<Burgwork> robotgeek, you are a member of the wiki team
<robotgeek> Burgwork: yes, but not the -doc team, if that makes any diffference
<LaserJock> Madpilot: argg, who's manicka?
<Burgwork> robotgeek, for the doc team I generally ask mdke and jerome if they also approve
<Madpilot> LaserJock: Grant
<manicka> wait on that diff
<LaserJock> Madpilot: oh
<robotgeek> Burgwork: sure, no issues. I just need to get my patches in :)
<manicka> I'm sending an update
<Madpilot> LaserJock: GrAnT GaLbRaiTh 	
<manicka> that's me
<LaserJock> Madpilot: ok
<Madpilot> manicka: I know; LaserJock's got commit rights, though, so he's useful :P
<Burgwork> I do to, but I am almost never at a machine that I can actually commit from
<Burgwork> anyway, it is the weekend and I am heading home
<robotgeek> brb
<ompaul> right I am off to sleep - I'll do more over the weekend
<ompaul> cheers
<LaserJock> manicka: so it's ok to apply this diff?
<LaserJock> manicka: done ;-)
<manicka> robotgeek, what areas of the kubuntu guide need some love at the moment?
<robotgeek> manicka: hmm, uno momento
<robotgeek> manicka: if we maintain the structure of Ubuntu Desktop Guide, 4. Configuring Your System needs lots of love
<robotgeek> no one is working on it atm, i'm trying to wrap up chapter 3. Common Tasks tommorow
<Madpilot> don't forget that mdke and I have drastically changed some of the structure of the UDG in the past two weeks, as well... :P
<manicka> k, I'll have a look
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i copied the structure today, i need to make common tasks to be similiar
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i was tempted to write the apt-get section :)
<Madpilot> robotgeek: go ahead, we can copy it back into UDG as well
<robotgeek> Madpilot: yeah, i just got lazy, and did not write it, lol
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i'm going over to a friends place, so i doubt i'll get any work done this weekend
<manicka> how much detail would w e want in an apt-get guide
<manicka> just the basics?
<Madpilot> we're concentrating on the GUI methods - Add App/Synaptic - so just a basic couple of paragraphs on apt-get should be enough
<manicka> ok
<robotgeek> manicka: you can take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesCliHowto
<theCore> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi theCore 
<LaserJock> theCore: did you see my commit?
<theCore> not yet
<LaserJock> I really rearranged stuff
<theCore> I didn't received the -commit yet
<theCore> wait, I got it
<theCore> yep, it is better
<crimsun> crap, do I need to check out again?
<LaserJock> crimsun: you could just do a "svn up" if you want. we just messed around with the introduction and getting started sections
<LaserJock> crimsun: but you don't have to if you don't want to ;-)
<theCore> LaserJock: where I could get a html built ? I doesn't have SVN on my other machine (I'm installing DapperFlight4 right now, on mine ) 
<crimsun> ah, in desktopguide
<crimsun> orthogonal to my revisions, so it's golden
<LaserJock> crimsun: what about desktopguide?
<LaserJock> crimsun: no, it was in the packaging guide
<LaserJock> crimsun: sorry :(
<crimsun> hmm
<crimsun> must not have propagated yet
<crimsun> U    ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks.xml
<crimsun> Updated to revision 2488.
<LaserJock> crimsun: you might have already gotten my changes
<crimsun> ah
<LaserJock> 2487 was the changes
<LaserJock> so your good
<theCore> LaserJock: hey you wiped my comments :?
<LaserJock> theCore: well, I was having problems with my copy-n-paste so I didn't redo them? do you want them?
<LaserJock> theCore: I don't know that we need them, do we?
<theCore> not really, I liked the idea of commenting for the other peoples that could help on the writing, though
<LaserJock> theCore: if you want, the next diff you sennd I'll include them, ok?
<theCore> alright, but I don't know if will redo them
<LaserJock> mhz: done with your css?
<mhz> almost
<mhz> my headache is killing me
<LaserJock> bummer
<mhz> it has been like this for the last 48 hours or so
<mhz> I can hardly sleep
<LaserJock> ugghh
<LaserJock> and your on a computer?
<mhz> and I can hardly stay up or sit
<mhz> the last couple of hours.. yes
<mhz> because i had a lapsus of recovery
<mhz> bye all
<manicka> just submitted diff for add-applications.xml to list
<manicka> overview of apt-get
<mdke> morning
<rob> hi mdke 
<mdke> yo
<mdke> how's it going rob?
<rob> not bad, yourself?
<mdke> very well thanks
<Madpilot> mdke: thanks for asking for my commit access again... we'll see what happens
<mdke> Madpilot, np
<mdke> manicka's patch is pretty good
<mdke> i'm just making a few changes and then I'll commit it
<Madpilot> the apt-get one? haven't looked at the diff, but it'll be nice to have something there
<mdke> yeah, it's good stuff
<Madpilot> good
<mdke> what Laserjock said about the "You must use synaptic to install this package" notes, he has a point...
<mdke> maybe we should say "Use synaptic or apt to install this", or "This is not available in Add/Remove Applications"
<mdke> dunno
<Madpilot> I don't like the idea of "This is not available in Add/Remove Applications" - we should always point out where it *is* available
<mdke> yeah i agree
<mdke> mvo suggested that we could make a list of all the packages we cite which aren't available, and he would make them available.
<mdke> i don't know whether that is workable though
<Madpilot> in Add App?
<mdke> yes
<Madpilot> including stuff like codecs that're never going to have .desktop files?
<mdke> yes, he would make dummy desktop files
<Madpilot> interesting - I don't think it's needed, though - people should be introduced to Synaptic eventually, after all
<mdke> i tend to agree
<mdke> and I can't be bothered to make such a list
<Madpilot> there's that, too :P
<mdke> I've opened a bug on the codecs though, because they are so popular
<Madpilot> desktop files for them?
<mdke> yeah
<Madpilot> makes sense - they've got to be the single most-installed set of packages
<mdke> yeah
<rob> mdke, when will the docs be frozen?
<mdke> ok, we now have an APT section
<mdke> rob, 23 March
<mdke> iirc
<rob> ah
<mdke> check the ReleaseSchedule
<rob> maybe I can do some proof reading or something, time has been getting away from me lately
<mdke> hopefully we can start translating earlier though, they are in pretty good shape
<mdke> rob, that would be cool. The server guide especially needs a bit of reviewing love
<mdke> rob, we've started updating the status tags so it should be pretty obvious from http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status
<rob> ok, I'll check it out
<rob> I'll have to send patches though if I need to
<mdke> oh?
<mdke> lost your password?
<mdke> we can ask elmo to resend it
<rob> yeah, mostly because I did the job on my PC and forgot to back up my gpg key
<mdke> ouch
<mdke> what's now known as "doing a Madpilot"
<rob> hehe
<Madpilot> no, I still had my GPG key, but I'd forgotten my password :P
<mdke> oh yeah
<rob> yeah I dont't have both
<Madpilot> I think Corey nuked one of his GPG keys reformatting, though
<mdke> "doing a corey" then
<mdke> Madpilot, see the APT section?
<Madpilot> just updating now
<rob> I did a CoreyMadpilot
<mdke> Madpilot, by the way, I've introduced a few <warning> things for the DVD section and codecs and such, lemme know what you think about those
<mdke> oh and in the "extra repositories" section
<Madpilot> looks good - esp. the Apt section
<Madpilot> I might re-write the Synaptic section there sometime this weekend - it's suffering from a bit of excess verbiage...
<mdke> alright
<mdke> the paras are a bit long yeah
<mdke> i'm just adding some sudo notes to each of those sections
<mdke> i LOVE the way yelp displays notes and warnings and stuff
<mdke> makes the page look a lot better
<Madpilot> the styling is pretty cool - I'm still getting my head around how much more powerful XML/DocBook is compared to regular HTML/CSS
<mdke> ok committed
<mdke> I've marked everything as complete except for the synaptic section :D
* mdke doesn't believe in hanging around
<Madpilot> cool. that bash alias I posted to the list is so useful - saves a lot of typing during svn updates :P
<mdke> yeah I need to apply that
<dsas> mdke: ping
<mdke> dsas, pong
<dsas> mdke: reading the "windows partition" bit, it tells people to read "list devices" but doesn't really tell people what they should be looking for inside it. Should I write an explanation on the "list devices" bit and explain what they're looking at, or should I explain in the "mount windows partitions bit"?
<dsas> mdke: rather it doesn't tell people what they're looking for in the "mount" output.
<mdke> yes, that could be clearer, I guess
<mdke> if you'd like to expand on the "list devices" section, that would be cool
<dsas> oh, hang on, I just realised that the "mount windows partitions" refers to disks manager and not 'list devices' 
<mdke> oh yeah
<mdke> well, any more material there would probably be good
<dsas> ok, I'll have a look at it.
<LaserJock> hi Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi manicka 
<manicka> morning :)
<robotgeek> hey manicka LaserJock
<manicka> hey
<LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
<robotgeek> hopefully i will finish "common-tasks.xml" today, and someone will commit it :)
<mdke> i think we can start committing your stuff straight off
<mdke> making jjesse do it all is unrealistic, and you are in charge of that doc, so we can just commit no questions asked, IMO
<robotgeek> mdke: yes, that would be nice. 
<LaserJock> if it is ok, I can do a lot of it.
<robotgeek> i have about 3 different sets of patches yet to be applied, 2 are one liners, and 1 is major
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> mail me a single patch?
<mdke> with your working copy
<robotgeek> hmm, or you could just apply the big patch now, (one i mailed yesterday) and i will send in the onliners in my next set?
<mdke> ok, I'll see if it applies without the others
<mdke> gah
<mdke> there are four of em
<robotgeek> mdke: yes, it does. the first one is for adept, so not to worry about that. 
<robotgeek> pretty self explanatory, i guess :)
<mdke> robotgeek, i'm lazy, send me one patch for your whole kubuntu/ directory
<mdke> or will that step on peoples' toes?
<robotgeek> mdke: hmm, not really. one moment
<robotgeek> mdke: i am not done with common-tasks.xml yet, so i'll send you a big diff when i am done?
<mdke> sure, I'll apply it tomorrow morning
<robotgeek> cool, hopefully i'll be done with that. doing the whole lists -> procedures conversion right now
<mdke> find/replace :)
<robotgeek> mdke: yes, also cleaning up the info. merging stuff from UDG too :)
<mdke> cool, yeah that's not an easy job
<robotgeek> well, basically editing the UDG file and pasting where relevant in KDG
<robotgeek> i suddenly also had the urge to clean out my vimrc :)
<LaserJock> robotgeek: really? I'd be interested in a pastebin of that
<mdke> Madpilot, i changed the css for the web guides today, any thoughts?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: sure
<mdke> manicka, thanks for your patch by the way, that was really helpful
<Madpilot> mdke: haven't looked, will now
<manicka> np
<mdke> Madpilot, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html
<manicka> why is there 4 versions of add-applications now
<LaserJock> mdke: the css for doc.ubuntu.com?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9330
<LaserJock> robotgeek: thanks
<Madpilot> mdke: looks good
<LaserJock> mdke: I noticed that packaging guide looked different, I like it.
<mdke> good
* robotgeek will steal manicka's section for KDG
<mdke> the lines are a bit closer, and the margins larger, that's about it
<mdke> manicka, 4 versions?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: not much there, i guess :)
<manicka> mdke: in the desktop guide there are 4 versions of add-applications.xml sitting there
<mdke> manicka, maybe your editor saves old versions? do "svn status" to see which files are under version control
<mdke> files which are local to your system are marked with "?"
<manicka> no locals, these appeared when I did an update this morning
<robotgeek> manicka: do you have something file.xml.mine, file.xml.rxyz
<manicka> robotgeek: yes
<mdke> manicka, https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/
<mdke> it's definitely local stuff
<manicka> ok, just deleted them then updated, all is well
<mdke> i wonder why they didn't show up with svn status
<mdke> weird
<manicka> nice changes to APT, btw
<mdke> thanks to you for starting it off :)
<manicka> it's a pleasure, I can see myself enjoying docbook as i get used to it more
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-03
<mdke> yeah, it's fun :)
<Burglaptop> for certain values of "fun"
<robotgeek> LaserJock: the keymap to change buffers doesn't work, you might have to change it to "nnoremap <C-l> :bn<CR>"
<Madpilot> in Dapper, has the menu entry for "Add Applications" actually been changed to "Add/Remove Applications"?
<Burglaptop> actually Add/Remove ....
<mdke> yes
<Madpilot> OK, was wondering - we're a bit inconsistent in UDG
<mdke> yeah, I've been changing to Add/Remove
* manicka switching to dapper
<mdke> but actually, surely they will change back
<mdke> it's idiotic to have .....
<Burglaptop> mdke: post something to the -desktop list to that affect
<mdke> Burglaptop, we can just ping mvo, it's probably just an accidental merge or something
<Burglaptop> it would be nice to have an official policy statement either way, however
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> Madpilot, things like that will have to be quite thoroughly checked after string freeze, I guess
<Madpilot> patch for UDG add-application inbound to the list...
<mdke> Madpilot, excellent idea about the note
<Madpilot> yeah - it's one thing I see a fair bit on #ubuntu
<mdke> doesn't validate tho
<Madpilot> exact wording might need changing a bit for clarity, I'm not sure
<mdke> i'll sort it
<Madpilot> gah - forgot to validate that - sorry :P
<Madpilot> there's an extra set of <para> tags around the new note
<Madpilot> and no <para> tags inside the <note> tags
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> committed
<Madpilot> thnx
<mdke> -> bed
<Madpilot> later
<LaserJock> cya mdke
<robotgeek> LaserJock: i found a nice page on xml + vim, i think you know it too. 
<robotgeek> http://www.pinkjuice.com/howto/vimxml/setup.xml
<robotgeek> manicka: i've added your apt-get section to kdg too, thanks
<manicka> k
<LaserJock> robotgeek: actually I don't think I've seen it before. Thanks for the tip ;-)
<Burglaptop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Dublin_Love_Ulster_Demonstration <-- instant news. This happened todayu
<robotgeek> LaserJock: cool, that a nice page :)
<LaserJock> Burglaptop: man, that is fast for a wiki
<manicka> hi bustacap :)
<bustacap> hey grant, what's happening?
<Burglaptop> anybody got any brilliant ideas about what I should cook tonight?
<Madpilot> food?
* Burglaptop smacks Madpilot
<LaserJock> chinese?
<robotgeek> noodles, the 2 minute vareity :P
<robotgeek> okay, for audio editing, should i go ahead and put in audacity, even though it is a gtk app? 
<LaserJock> why? aren't there KDE audio editing apps?
<robotgeek> apparently not, let me google
<LaserJock> kwave?
<crimsun> I don't think you should have to distinguish between Gtk and Qt apps
<Madpilot> audacity isn't actually a gtk app, it's some odd widget set that's cross-platform (so it looks funny in every OS...)
<robotgeek> wxgtk, i think
<crimsun> wxwidgets uses Gtk by default
<robotgeek> cool, i can just copy from UDG then, lol
<crimsun> (much to my chagrin for Breezy...)
<LaserJock> well, I just thought Kubuntu would have a KDE audio editor
<Madpilot> Kaudacity? :P
* robotgeek finishes another section, lol
<robotgeek> Madpilot: even if you write one, we are paste the FF :)
<robotgeek> past, even
<LaserJock> hmm, that seems weird though that KDE wouldn't have one? are you sure it doesn't?
<robotgeek> there are others, but i am not sure what they do/if they are as good as audacity (not that i know how it works)
* robotgeek hates the "works like itunes" "works like Windows Media Player" references
<Madpilot> they're what people are used to...
<robotgeek> yeah, i understand :)
<Burglaptop> they might not be needed
<Burglaptop> what is the wmp reference to?
<robotgeek> since we target switchers, it's probably a good thing
<robotgeek> totem
<Burglaptop> not really needed there
<Burglaptop> a media player is a media player
<Burglaptop> and rb is *NOT* like itunes
<Burglaptop> assuming that the refernce
<Burglaptop> better to talk about what the user is trying to do, rather than link the two in the peoples mind
<robotgeek> To play movies, Ubuntu comes with <application>Totem Movie Player</ application> which looks and functions similar to Windows Media Player
<robotgeek> etc etc, which is okay, i think
<Burglaptop> bah, what a horrible sentence, kill the whole thing
<Burglaptop> users don't care what plays their movies, they just want to play it
<Burglaptop> plus, totem is not even in the menus anymore
<robotgeek> really, what is?
<robotgeek> i don't use ubuntu, so i dunno
<Burglaptop> oh wait, it is
<crimsun> I would drop the whole "which looks...Media Player" portion
<crimsun> frankly it neither looks like nor functions like WMP
<robotgeek> or itunes for amarok
<Burglaptop> anyway, why are we talking about what it *is*? users don't care
<robotgeek> true
<robotgeek> hi, can someone tell me what to use inplace of gstreamer, since kubuntu doesn't use it anymore? http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/ch03s03.html
<Burglaptop> The sentence could easily be written "Ubuntu comes with the Frabblenork Movia Player"
<Burglaptop> robotgeek: what does it us?
<Burglaptop> s/us/use
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: excatly :)
<Burglaptop> if it uses xine, you need to talk about the w32codecs, which are evil but work
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: not for mp3's
<Madpilot> Frabblenork - I predict there is already an OSS project with a name at least this silly... :P
<Burglaptop> sadly, no
* Burglaptop goes to start Frabblenork
<Madpilot> frabblenork.sf.net?
<Burglaptop> ok, so I got some pork chops. Any suggestions?
* robotgeek might steal that cool name for something
<Madpilot> robotgeek: it's even got a K in it, so it could be a KDE projekt
<robotgeek> frabblenorK
<Madpilot> now all we need is a function to go with the cool app name
<Burglaptop> oK now Kiddies, time to enjoyK your desKtop!
* robotgeek smacKs Burglaptop
* Madpilot wonders how many OSS projects start with a cool name, and aquire an actual function later... :D
<robotgeek> Madpilot: frabblenorK did, lol
<Burglaptop> what about this idea? Can we create a project that does nothing, but looks like it does?
<Burglaptop> without descending into manager speak, that is
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: sounds neat, vaporware!
<crimsun> aka Duke Nukem Forever?
<robotgeek> crimsun: DNF is actually being developed now
<robotgeek> you can't really use that reference now :)
<crimsun> yeah, I've read as much, but it has been the better part of a decade, so I'm not holding my breath...
<Madpilot> Burglaptop: if it's got enough eyecandy and lives on the desktop, someone will probably run it, even if it does squat...
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: http://www.bernardbelanger.com/computing/NaDa/
<Burglaptop> how about Frabblesnork - The Manager(TM)
<Burglaptop> note, we are not mentioning *what* it manages
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: note that NaDa is not Free Software :)
<Burglaptop> dammit, .er is a not a valid tld
<Burglaptop> I wanted to register man.ag.er
<Burglaptop> oh, wait it is
<Burglaptop> damn, you must live in eritrea
<Burglaptop> man.ag.es is available
<Madpilot> need to do a grocery run - back later. Have fun frabblesnorking.
<Burglaptop> "Eritrea does not yet have a direct internet connection."
<Burglaptop> bloody hell, gpm just did something wierd
* robotgeek gives up on codecs for now
<Burglaptop> robitaille: salut
<robitaille> Hi Burglaptop 
<Burglaptop> robitaille: so the ReStore basically blew me off. I am annoyed
<robitaille> that's annoyning.  Any particular reason?
<Burglaptop> they said "they would think about it"
<robitaille> ah, sounds like a "we'll call you back"...
<robitaille> anyone knows the story behind: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Official_Ubuntu_Book_Contributions
<Burglaptop> robitaille: Jono put something up. No idea. He didn't mention anything to Mako or I
<robitaille> edited by the famous Jono Bacon
<Burglaptop> robitaille: Jono, myself and Mako are writing the official Ubuntu book
<robitaille> ah.  I didn't know that
<Burglaptop> Jonathon Jesse is writing a Kubuntu chapter and Bhuvan is writing the server chapter
<Madpilot> Burglaptop: is that Jono of Lugradio?
<robitaille> Madpilot:  yes
<robitaille> is there another Jono Bacon around Ubuntu? :)
<Madpilot> is he as... scatalogical.. in his writing as he is on LugRadio? :P
<Burglaptop> no
<Madpilot> pity
<Madpilot> robitaille: I didn't realize he was actually involved in Ubuntu (beyond plugging it on Lugradio)
<robitaille> Jono has done some writing before:  http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/linuxdeskhks/
<Madpilot> yeah, saw some of his stuff on the LG site
<Madpilot> so Burglaptop why are you loitering on IRC if you've got a book deadline to meet?
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> good question
<Burglaptop> because pot and book writing do not go together
<Madpilot> you've got stoner roommates again? :)
<robitaille> sp IRC and pot goes together?  :)
<Burglaptop> yep
<jsgotangco> im pretty much swamped with writing too at the moment
<Burglaptop> the pot comes from the relative of one roommate
<robitaille> after writting a couple of thesis at the university, and a couple of science papers, I have reached the conclusion that I'll never write a book. 
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> there's an old chinese saying about writing a book to become immortal...
<robitaille> I'm not patient enough to write a book.
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: dad was first published at 25. Beat him by two years!
<jsgotangco> robitaille: it really eats up a lot of time
<Madpilot> Burglaptop: ha
<jsgotangco> apparently the europeans are much better writers since a lot of Ubuntu books have come out there
<jsgotangco> already
<Burglaptop> I think it is down to more linux users there
<robitaille> the wiki world map of ubuntu users seems to show that most Ubuntu users are European
<jsgotangco> not surprising
<Madpilot> there's an ebook from France, I saw, and the Spanish one (Guadalinux?) - are there more?
<jsgotangco> there are also at least 2 in germany
<Burglaptop> the upcoming Ubuntu hacks book is from a US author
<jsgotangco> ploum's book
<jsgotangco> the publishers are having a field day
<Burglaptop> Prentince Hall is seriously looking at an Edubuntu book, provided the Ubuntu book does well
<Madpilot> yeah, but with 6 month release cycles, the selling season for these books isn't going to be that long...
<jsgotangco> oh cool
<jsgotangco> Madpilot: dapper is different
<jsgotangco> Madpilot: most publishers tend to side with a "generic" reference
<jsgotangco> rather than a specific release
<jsgotangco> an official book will have lots of revisions though
<Burglaptop> but Ubuntu books tend to concentrate on the desktop, which is the most variable part
<jsgotangco> just to have good shelf visibility
<Madpilot> hmm, Dapper is going to be the '5 year' release - so yeah, they'll last a bit longer
<jsgotangco> a server book is more viable with a long shelf life i guess
<Burglaptop> regardless of the short shelf life, Ubuntu books are going to fly off the shelf
<jsgotangco> has anyone seen the g-a-i manual i wrote?
<jsgotangco> comments? suggestions?
<Burglaptop> jsgotangco: sorry, haven't seen it
<jsgotangco> its already in the distro
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: is it in our svn?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> we just had it uploaded a few days ago with the package
<Burglaptop> jsgotangco: I wonder about the installation section
<jsgotangco> i just patterned it from u-m
<Burglaptop> jsgotangco: you might want to make the note about it being installed by default a bit bolder and stronger
<jsgotangco> feel free to comment on it on the list so i can make changes to it later
<Burglaptop> the section "Main Window" might need a stronger title
<Madpilot> g-a-i is dependent on Firefox?
<jsgotangco> i will have to do some paid work first
<jsgotangco> brb
<jsgotangco> Madpilot: strange isn't it
<Burglaptop> does it use gecko?
<Madpilot> I used to complain about how dependant Windows was on IE; seems like we're just as dependent on Firefox... browsers are infectious or something :P
<jsgotangco> app-install-data seems to rely on it
<Burglaptop> jsgotangco: overall well written
<Madpilot> is g-a-i called "Install and Remove Applications" or "Add & Remove..."?
<jsgotangco> Install and Remove Applications is what we agreed upon
<jsgotangco> (me, mvo and glatzor)
<Madpilot> We've been using "Add.." in the UDG, it's "Add.." in the menus, but "Install.." in this guide?
<Madpilot> is the menu entry going to change in Dapper?
<jsgotangco> i dunno
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: ask the -desktop list
<Madpilot> When is freeze for that sort of thing, anyway? (UI/desktop details?)
<Burglaptop> March 9th is UI freeze
<Madpilot> and our doc freeze isn't until the 23rd or so - good.
<Madpilot> Burglaptop: I'm not on -desktop - want to drop them a note and CC -doc?
<Burglaptop> can do
* jsgotangco seems to like epiphany more lately
<Burglaptop> epiphany is nice, no?
<jsgotangco> and fast
<jsgotangco> i wonder how extensible it is though
<jsgotangco> the way it renders fonts is different but not noticeable
<Burglaptop> the fonts are smaller
<jsgotangco> yes a wee bit
<jsgotangco> text size zoom is just a click
<Burglaptop> yes, but the default size is more importatnt
<jsgotangco> it seems to render wikipedia in the correct font size though
<jsgotangco> but gmail is slightly smaller
<Burglaptop> bbc news is smaller
<jsgotangco> wonder what determines it
<jsgotangco> oh cool BBC as a11y info for linux users
<Burglaptop> they even talk about GNOME and KDE
<Burglaptop> there are people at the beeb get it
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> so cool
<Burglaptop> I wish CBC were as good
<jsgotangco> a few instructions to be posted on the web isn't hard
<Burglaptop> but it shows that someone cares
<jsgotangco> does anyone notice the the rhythmbox notification is cut when a different application is open
<Burglaptop> don't use rb
<jsgotangco> bah
<jsgotangco> don't tell me i have to use a movie player to play audio :P
<Burglaptop> Madpilot uses muine
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: I was using Rb while I was running the Dapper LiveCD a few nights ago, didn't notice the popup "Now Playing" thing cutting out, and I ran a bunch of different apps
<jsgotangco> hmm
<Madpilot> RB in dapper is dramatically better than the RB in Breezy...
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> you can now do podcasts
<Madpilot> I still like Muine's simple UI, though
* robitaille use google reader for podcasts and blogs
<crimsun> I prefer quod libet; too bad 0.18 probably won't make it into Dapper
<jsgotangco> robitaille: heh
<Madpilot> anyone used Cowbell before?
<robitaille> I continously switch between computers at home and at work.  The remote server for blogs, podcasts, email is essential
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: a little
<Madpilot> Burglaptop: can you actually import whole folders into it, or just individual song files?
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: whole folders
<Burglaptop> I think
<Madpilot> I've used EasyTag so far, it's more complex but handles whole directories easily
<Madpilot> but we've got Cowbell in UDG... :P
<jsgotangco> robitaille: its amazing on what they churn out with ajax though
<Madpilot> 3360 songs in my Music directory...
<robitaille> only 1291 songs in mine...but probably 200 CDs still to rip in my collection.  Obviously I'll never complete that project...
<Madpilot> I've got CDs that I've never "really" heard, because I just ripped them straight to .ogg :P
<Madpilot> a couple of DRM'd ones that wouldn't play, but would rip - go figure
<Burglaptop> I didn't know we had an EmbeddedUbuntu project until about 4 days ago: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6954215579.html
<jsgotangco> was it discussed during UBZ?
<robitaille> sometimes I feel like writing a fake spec on the wiki, and see how long before a web site pick it up.  Maybe something to do for April 1st
<Burglaptop> I don't remember it being dicussed, but I may have missed it
<Madpilot> some of the stuff feels like it should have been added on April 1st - like this gem: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubunty_daily_tips
<Madpilot> not a bad idea, but notice the spelling... :P
<Burglaptop> I think for April 1st we shoudl rename the distro to "Hakuna Matata"
<robitaille> I wonder if the Ubuntu devs will change the gdm image this April 1st like last year
<Madpilot> April 1st release: Mutant Marsupial
<mdke> hello jpatrick 
<jpatrick> hello mdke 
<mdke> I noticed you applied to join the ubuntu-doc launchpad team
<jpatrick> yes, I did
<mdke> we generally keep that team for people who work on the docs in our repository. are you interested in that?
<jpatrick> yes, I'm working on PackagingGuide and KubuntuDesktopGuide
<mdke> right, I saw that on your wiki page
<mdke> but I haven't seen any patches yet on the mailing list, do you need any help with doing that?
<jpatrick> I sent a patch to LaserJock today
<jpatrick> he's yet to come online
<mdke> ah right
<mdke> jpatrick, if you send them to the mailing list too, then it helps us get to know you :)
<mdke> thanks for getting involved
<jpatrick> ok
<mdke> after you've been sending patches for a while, you are likely to be given commit access
<mdke> then we'll add you to the launchpad team :)
<jpatrick> ok, thanks :)
<jsgotangco> hi
<mdke> feel free to hang out here too and ask any questions
<mdke> hiya jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> its pretty crazy here at the moment
<jpatrick> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> tanks came out from the base of the marines
<mdke> mm?
<jsgotangco> i guess you don't read world news :D
<mdke> i'm looking now
<jsgotangco> there was a botched coup here last friday
<mdke> ah i see 
<mdke> gosh
<mdke> stay indoors!
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> we actually watched WWE that night
<jpatrick> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4745716.stm
<jsgotangco> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4752118.stm
<jpatrick> I'm having trouble with Kubuntu Desktop Guide
<jpatrick> I run 'make desktop-web' then 'make desktop-web' but no output is made
<jpatrick> make desktop-html that is
<jpatrick> solved it
<gusaweb> hello
<gusaweb> I am here to submit an idea
<gusaweb> or ask if it has already been done
<robotgeek> sure gusaweb
<gusaweb> Is there a launchpad documentation?
<gusaweb> I am new in Ubuntu
<robotgeek> gusaweb: do you mean documentation for launchpad?
<gusaweb> yes robotgeek
* robotgeek looks
<gusaweb> yesterday I wanted to report bugs
<gusaweb> and I realized launchpad has lots of functionnalities
<gusaweb> it is a very great tool
<gusaweb> but it would be nice if there was a documentation
<robotgeek> gusaweb: i don't think there was anything there, as such. 
<robotgeek> https://wiki.launchpad.net/ might be a start, gusaweb
<gusaweb> robotgeek ok
<jpatrick> I've sent a diff to the list
<dooglus> hi.
<dooglus> where should I report problems with ubuntu docs?
<dooglus> is malone the place?
<jpatrick> yes
<dooglus> ok.
<dooglus> and...
<dooglus> if I have a bunch of corrections,
<dooglus> would you prefer one per report?  or all lumped together?
<jpatrick> a diff file?
<jpatrick> svn diff > patch.diff
<dooglus> I'm not a writer.
<dooglus> but I recognise when things don't read right.
<jpatrick> one report
<dooglus> I see a funny box between "1" and "about ubuntu" here: http://fsphost.com/dooglus/snaps/2006-02-26--22-14-14.png ; is that worth reporting?  Or is that the fault of a different team?
<jpatrick> I don't see an "about ubuntu"
<dooglus> no
<dooglus> I mean between "1" and "participate".  in line 2.
<dooglus> it's a box with:
<dooglus> 2 0
<dooglus> 0 2
<dooglus> written in it
<dooglus> is that a "best before" date?
<jpatrick> I think it's fixed in svn
<dooglus> any chance svn could be packaged and uploaded to the mirrors?
<jpatrick> it's updated once in a while
<dooglus> is there some documentation or FAQ about how I might get the svn version?
<dooglus> there's no point me reporting bugs which have already been fixed in a version I haven't seen
<jpatrick> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/index.html
<jpatrick> ^^built daily
<dooglus> I mean is there some way I can see the svn version?
<jpatrick> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<dooglus> thanks
<dooglus> that page says "It will ask for certificate informations".  "information" is a collective noun, and doesn't have a plural.
<jpatrick> good point
<dooglus> that was a test :)
<dooglus> what should I do with such observations?
<dooglus> 1) keep them to myself - it's only an 's' after all
<dooglus> 2) fix them - it's a wiki
<dooglus> 3) complain about it here (I did!)
<dooglus> 4) report a bug in malone
<dooglus> 5) none of the above
<jpatrick> 2, if it was me
<dooglus> ok.
<dooglus> I did #2
<dooglus> so I've checkout out the svn repository.  can I view the svn version of "about ubuntu" that's now in my home directory using yelp?
<jpatrick> yes
<dooglus> I tried: "yelp ubuntu-doc/ubuntu/aboutubuntu/C/about-ubuntu.xml" but it showed the
<dooglus> 2 0
<dooglus> box, just as before
<dooglus> 0 2
<mdke_> dooglus, perhaps I can help, what's the problem
<mdke_> ah
<mdke_> those 2002 boxes are a bug in yelp, it is reported, and fixed.
<mdke_> dooglus, also, don't bother over About Ubuntu just now, it will hopefully be replaced by a program mpt_ is working on
<mdke_> mpt_, actually, is your About Ubuntu still an option, after feature freeze?
<mdke_> if not, we should get cracking and tidy up the old thing
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-04
<Burglaptop> ok, it is cold in my house. We ran out of oil last week and have been too cheap to buy more, so I can see my breath inside
<LaserJock> ughh
<LaserJock> not fun
<Burglaptop> oh, I saw a funny poster downtown the other day
<Burglaptop> it was the bsd daemon, the OO.o bird and the Tux, with hammers in their hand
<Burglaptop> it was advertising some djs
<LaserJock> hi Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi LaserJock 
<Burglaptop> HULK SMASH!!!
<Burglaptop> bloody OO.o
<Madpilot> having fun, Burglaptop ?
<crimsun> Burglaptop: (I don't mean to step on your toes in #edubuntu)
<Burglaptop> it won't import the bloody template
<Burglaptop> crimsun: np
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi!
<Burglaptop> jsgotangco: salut
<Madpilot> hi all
<jsgotangco> hey hey
<Madpilot> hi bhuvan
<bhuvan> hello Madpilot
<Burglaptop> bhuvan: who is the writing coming?
<bhuvan> Burglaptop: ?
<Burglaptop> bhuvan: are you not writing a server chapter?
<bhuvan> Burglaptop: did you mean for ubuntu book ?
<Burglaptop> yep
<bhuvan> nope, i didnt receive any intimation to do so
<jsgotangco> hmm
<Burglaptop> bhuvan: hmm, I had thought you had
<bhuvan> Burglaptop: ok. check and confirm if i should prepare the document
<Burglaptop> bhuvan: hmm, deadline is tomorrow. I will chat with the publisher tomorrow
<bhuvan> oh :)
<Madpilot> hi robitaille 
<robitaille> hi Madpilot 
<Burglaptop> salut robitaille
<robitaille> hello Burglaptop 
<Madpilot> Burglaptop, how's the book going?
<Burglaptop> Madpilot: grinding along
* bhuvan feels there is no dapper update for ubuntu-doc for past 25 days
<Madpilot> hmm?
<bhuvan> Madpilot, last ubuntu-doc dapper update was on feb 03 2006
<Madpilot> last package build or whatever? I think mdke_ is in charge of bothering the packaging folks, isn't he?
<bhuvan> may be
<Madpilot> mail the list, I guess
<bhuvan> i'll check with mdke_ before sending an email
<bhuvan> whats the kde version used in dapper kubuntu ?
<LaserJock> jjesse_lunch: I'm going to apply jpatrick's diff after I tweak a couple of items, ok
<jjesse> LaserJock: that's cool w/ me
<LaserJock> jjesse: thanks
<LaserJock> hi theCore 
<jpatrick> LaserJock: svn up does nothing
<LaserJock> jpatrick: hmm?
<jpatrick> it's not updated
<LaserJock> yeah, I know
<theCore> oh, hello LaserJock
<theCore> I'm still trying to recover (my crash was really due to a hard drive failure), but I should be up tomorrow, because I will get two 40 gb hard drives today.
<LaserJock> man that stinks, is your brother going to pay for it?
<theCore> no, the hard drive would have failed anyway, and it was only 10 years old 10gb hard drive, so it isn't a big lost
<LaserJock> jpatrick: ok, it's in. For future reference you need to have a <para> inside <note> ;-)
<theCore> LaserJock: Plus, I will the both 40gb hard drive for free
<LaserJock> theCore: oh, that's nice
<Burgwork> talk people!
<theCore> blah
<LaserJock> hi Burgwork, how's it going?
<Burgwork> good
<LaserJock> got the book done?
<Burgwork> hah
<LaserJock> I take it that means "no" ;-)
<Burgwork> I fought with oo.o to take a template last night, that was the major sticking point
<LaserJock> So your writing it in OO?
<Burgwork> actually, I am writing in gedit
<Burgwork> then I import that raw text to OO and theme it
<Burgwork> as I don't trust OO.o to be stable enough
<LaserJock> ahh, interesting. I would have thought it would be done in latex
<Burgwork> latex is way to geeky
<Burgwork> this is not being published by oreilly
<LaserJock> oh, us scientists use latex for everything
<jjesse> how many chapters are you doing burgwork?
<Burgwork> jjesse, three plus one appendix
<jjesse> Burgwork: ouch
<LaserJock> what is the intended audience? Windows user wanting to switch?
<Burgwork> LaserJock, anybody who wants to learn more about Ubuntu
<Burgwork> jjesse, been a lot more work than I imagined
<jjesse> or kubuntu :)
<jjesse> Burgwork: yeah it was the same for my one chapter
<Burgwork> are you done?
<jjesse> i gave chris my second draft
<LaserJock> Burgwork: hmm, I'm looking forward to seeing it. will it have to be redone for each release or is it general enough that it will only be written once?
<Burgwork> LaserJock, if it sells, it could be redone for each release
<Burgwork> it is very much up in the air right now
<LaserJock> so who is going to publish/distribute it?
<jjesse> it was pretty much all i did for two weeks each night
<Burgwork> LaserJock, Prentice Hall
<LaserJock> Burgwork: nice, it would be cool to have a PayPal button or something on the Ubuntu website.
<Burgwork> LaserJock, to do what, donate?
<LaserJock> well, I guess buy the book, but maybe something like "For a donation of $ or more you get the Ubuntu Book"
<jjesse> instead of buying it through amazon?
<LaserJock> jjesse: well, I would think both but it would be nice to play it up well on ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> I'm sure it is all planned, I just wonder how it is going to be done
<Burgwork> there are plans to get good community feedback
<LaserJock> hi Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi
<Burgwork> salut Madpilot 
<Burgwork> Madpilot, I had a good conversation with John at ReStore today
<Burgwork> he was much better to chat to in person than on on the phone
<Madpilot> it's always easier to blow someone off over the phone...
<Burgwork> plus I spoke with Project Literacy Victoria
<Madpilot> get them onside for training?
<Burgwork> going to chat with their computer person tomorrow, but yes, that is the plan
<Madpilot> cool
<ompaul> Burgwork, Me = finished, there is more that could be done, poke me with suggestions in a mail I am going to listen to music for a while - wiki.ubuntu.com/website/FAQ
<Burgwork> ompaul, ok
<Burgwork> Madpilot, you want to have a go at the above?
<ompaul> Burgwork, I would need advice on aim here or poke there
<Burgwork> ompaul, sorry, don't follow?
<ompaul> Burgwork, if anyone wants anything in particular there they can add it, or if they are busy say it to me and I'll do it 
<Burgwork> ok
<ompaul> I hope it ain't too butchered :)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-05
<Madpilot> I just did a quick proofreading run thru that, ompaul - looks OK
<ompaul> Madpilot, thanks
<ompaul> robotgeek was suggesting he was going to do something about an install - was it install an application or install the o/s?
<Madpilot> the install guide is for the OS, I think
<Madpilot> not sure what the status of that is
<ompaul> I'll get him tomorrow and see if I can do something he may be able to use or are our aims so different :) I want installing an applicaiton and a quick overview of where files go and why kind of filesystem and install I suppose
<Madpilot> ompaul, check the current Ubuntu Desktop Guide for Dapper at doc.ubuntu.com - some of that is already in there - there's a good Add Applications section
<ompaul> okay
<ompaul> might save me a job of work that would be cool
<ompaul> hmm tasty 
<ompaul> I will bookmark that for tomorrow
<Madpilot> those docs get rebuilt twice a day from our SVN repository
<ompaul> k
<Madpilot> ompaul, you can also get the SVN onto your own computer - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<ompaul> Madpilot, hmm that could be dangerous :)(
<ompaul> :)
<Madpilot> it's just a local copy - you'd submit changes thru the -doc mailing list until you get commit rights
* Madpilot is still waiting for his commit rights... :P
<ompaul> such is life
<LaserJock> still? uggh
<Madpilot> yeah, I think mdke_ has sent about three emails to various people on my behalf - robotgeek's still waiting too
<LaserJock> mgalvin: is it ok with you if I GPL kubuntu/Makefile?
<mgalvin> LaserJock: ok by me, go for it
<LaserJock> mgalvin: thanks
<mgalvin> np
<Burgwork> jdong, you need to ask hno73
<jdong> who isn't here now,  correct?
<Burgwork> yes, let me get his eamil
<Burgwork> henrik@ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> jdong: what are the licenses? or is that what your trying to find?
<jdong> correct, LaserJock, I'm interested in using some shades of Ubuntu-ish brown on one of my MoinMoin wikis
<jdong> our school colors are gold and brown :)
<LaserJock> convenient ;-)
<jdong> so it'd be really easy for me to work off the Ubuntu MoinMoin stylesheet
<jdong> it's copyrighted though, so I'd rather not stir up any trouble
<LaserJock> sure
<Floid> What's the easiest way to request a small improvement to a package desc., or can I just drop it in someone's lap here?
<Madpilot> file a bug against the package on launchpad
<Madpilot> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<Floid> Just what I need, one more login/password. ;)
<Floid> But yeah, if I must..
<LaserJock> Floid: launchpad is used for lots of things in Ubuntu so it might be worthwhile 
<Madpilot> docteam doesn't actually handle the package descriptions, the packagers do
<Floid> I was really just trying to weasel a one-off filing on my behalf, but since I got the RTFM answer I'm already registering. ^^
<Floid> For what it's worth, and you might find a personal reason to care at some point, the acroread-plugins package is required to handle certain (or possibly all) fillable forms.
<Madpilot> bugs are best filed by the people who actually experienced them - that way you can be contacted for further details if needed...
<Floid> That is the entirety of the bug, all you get is some 'these plugins are evil and report back to the mothership' libre handwaving in the current desc. ;)
<Floid> Anyhow, remember this if you need to do your Connecticut taxes. :P
<Madpilot> I live on the far side of the continent from Connecticut, and in another country :P
<LaserJock> well, I'm at least in the same country, but we don't have state income taxes :)
<Floid> This is a certificate of no tax for an estate, actually, but that's getting into extraneous detail.
<Floid> I'm also looking for legal templates for OpenOffice, if anyone knows where they're hiding.  (Found reference to them, but not the actual last time I Googled.)
<Madpilot> Floid, for those, try the main #ubuntu channel - I think there's an openoffice channel too
<Madpilot> #openoffice.org
<Floid> That, in turn, was just the sound of me making small talk. ;)
<theCore> does anyone has tested the Yelp in Dapper ?
<robotgeek> theCore: yes
<robotgeek> it gives some nasty decorations :P
<theCore> robotgeek: do you get the wierds characters ?
<robotgeek> yup
<theCore> do you know what the problem is?
* robotgeek looks at malone
<robotgeek> theCore: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+bug/33110
<LaserJock> yeah, it is a bug that has been around for a while
<theCore> robotgeek: thanks
<robotgeek> maybe we should add information to it?
<robotgeek> confirm it, even?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: can we actually do that, change status from unconfirmed to confirmed?
<LaserJock> robotgeek: you certainly can, it won't do anything terribly important but you might as well since it is "confirmed" ;-)
<robotgeek> LaserJock: i did not know if iit was "bug-ettiquette"
<theCore> done
<LaserJock> robotgeek: if you can confirm it I think it is fine
<theCore> I'm a little bit disappointed by Dapper Flight 4 ...
<robotgeek> theCore: why?
<theCore> But, I won't critic it too much, until I see under the hood
<robotgeek> kubuntu/ubuntu?
<theCore> ubuntu
<robotgeek> theCore: ah, okay. i installed it for a friend of mine yesterday, he was happy with it :)
<theCore> robotgeek: I saw a couples of rough edges in the installer, gedit seem to have lost some feature, the mouse pointer is ugly, etc... 
<robotgeek> theCore: ah, okay. and the yelp bug is  nasty :)
<theCore> it funny how the mouse pointer is exactly the same as the one on the old Mac
<theCore> robotgeek: did you tried the kubuntu version?
<robotgeek> theCore: yes, i am on kubuntu
<LaserJock> theCore: basically, I think gnome has to fix yelp
<theCore> gnome ? what do you mean ?
<LaserJock> gnome needs to fix yelp
<theCore> LaserJock: you mean gnome developpers, right?
<LaserJock> theCore: right
<Madpilot> Yelp in Dapper is significantly fixed, isn't it?
<LaserJock> Madpilot: the weird character bug
<Madpilot> the square things? is that still happening in Dapper?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Madpilot> not cool
<LaserJock> yeah, basically there is supposed to be a "half" space where the 2003 box is
<theCore> I wonder why they put the Packaging Guide in Dapper too
<LaserJock> theCore: because I told them to :-)
<theCore> LaserJock: why ? the guide is not even half finished
<LaserJock> but it will be ;-)
<LaserJock> theCore: it is up to you to finish it. j/k
<theCore> *sigh*
<theCore> I need more packaging experience
<theCore> I need packages to package
<LaserJock> theCore: did you see jpatrick's addition?
<theCore> yeah
<LaserJock> I'm enlisting some other help as well from a couple of the guys from -motu
<theCore> he done a lot of work on the Kubuntu section
<LaserJock> I'm up for MOTU tommorw, if that goes well then I think I can concentrate on the packaging guide more
<Madpilot> If anyone needs basic proofreading done, drop me a note - the Ubuntu Desktop Guide seems to be mostly done
<theCore> there's something I can't find explaination: why the Wiki has a SSL connection ?
<Madpilot> because Mark used to run an encryption company?
<LaserJock> isn't that for authentication?
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> Madpilot's explanation is better
<theCore> Madpilot: lol, but that still doesn't explain me why 
<Madpilot> I don't know either
<Madpilot> but there's the "encrypt absolutely everything, so the important stuff doesn't stand out" take on encryption...
<LaserJock> I thought it was because it used LP for authentication, of course I could be wrong
<theCore> IMHO, it's just a waste of money
<mpt> It's so we can enjoy the picturesque landscape of the "The certificate for this site is inccorrect" alerts
<Madpilot> all the certs got renewed (finally) in Jan. this year
<theCore> does the Ubuntu slogan is still "Linux for human beings" ?
<Madpilot> far as I know
<FreakinNuts> Do we have a need/could you use documentation on the OEM install?
<Madpilot> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> Madpilot, hi!
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey
<Kyral> LJ I may be sending some patches to the Packaging Guide soon
<LaserJock> Kyral: great, I need some. Just make sure to keep your svn repo updated ;-)
<Kyral> LaserJock: I have like 10 SVNs I Up everyday
<LaserJock> Kyral: really? I've only got the doc team's really
<Kyral> XFCE LO
<Kyral> and the various Goodies :P
<robotgeek> LaserJock: the bug seems to be fixed in yelp :) 
<LaserJock> robotgeek: really? cool, I'm dist-upgrading right now
<robotgeek> LaserJock: yup, just updated
<jsgotangco> gentoo 2006 is really NICE
<LaserJock> cool? did they add an installer?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> they beat us
<jsgotangco> the x86 image is now a livecd installer
<robotgeek> binaries?
<robotgeek> head *swirls*
<jsgotangco> it uses a gtk installer too
<jsgotangco> but its good bling
<jsgotangco> im trying it now
<robotgeek> i've always wondered why we did not filch Fedora's Installer?
<LaserJock> so do they do binaries after the install? or is it still source?
<jsgotangco> LaserJock, i dunno i'm going to try it now
<LaserJock> Gentoo was my first real Linux distro
<LaserJock> I loved it
<jsgotangco> but the livecd bootsplash is really nice too
<LaserJock> I just can't believe Gentoo would have a livecd
<robotgeek> Gentoo was my first distro too, i managed to screw yaboot up! lol
<jsgotangco> it looks like its using gparted too
<FreakinNuts> yeah....gentoo really has kinda stepped out there.
<FreakinNuts> I was mucking around with it on vmware....it's been forever since I did a stage 1 install.
<jsgotangco> hmm it defaults to ext2
<LaserJock> I don't think I ever had the patience to do a stage 1 :)
<jsgotangco> oh my
<jsgotangco> i can choose stage 1, 2, 3 GRP and Dynamic
<jsgotangco> and even indicate a stage tarball url
<LaserJock> oh man, I think I might have to try this in Q on OSX
<jsgotangco> "The stage 3 tarball is the recommended tarball for Gentoo installations. It contains a complete base system and is already optimized for whatever architecture/processor you download the stage 3 for."
<jsgotangco> this is nice but rather scary for most users
<robotgeek> gentoo 2006?
<jsgotangco> you still define USE flags and CFLAGS
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i guess the default settings will work
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> this is really maxing it
<jsgotangco> even kernel source packages can be chosen
<jsgotangco> lol super config settings
<jsgotangco> fun
<FreakinNuts> Gentoo is one of those "power toys"  It's great for someone who wants total control over their system, however, it's not the type of user that I'm looking to steer with ubuntu.
<jsgotangco> yeah
<FreakinNuts> is the new ubuntu OEM installer going to be graphical, or still going to be text?
<LaserJock> FreakinNuts: what do you mean by OEM?
<jsgotangco> i haven't tried its probably the same
<jsgotangco> a lot of people would try running the livecd then install from it though using espresso
<FreakinNuts> LaserJock: I volunteer for a Freegeek and we're using the OEM install of ubuntu to prep the computers before they get adopted.
<FreakinNuts> LaserJock: from the ubuntu installer disk, just type oem...really great for prepping a computer for the end user....
<LaserJock> hmm, never seen that before, cool
<FreakinNuts> LaserJock: Howerver, there needs to be more documentation as to what the OEM installer really does, and maybe even some functionality to install customized programs specific to the OEM install.  (for example, we'd like to have the freegeekcolumbus.org link in the help for our users to try to ask us for help first, instead of bogging you folks down with end-user requests)
<FreakinNuts> LaserJock: my write up of the OEM install : http://freegeekcolumbus.org/wiki/OEM_Install
<robotgeek> FreakinNuts: i think you would need to hack the installer cd for links and stuff
<robotgeek> FreakinNuts: okay, sorry. i dunno what i am talking about!
<jsgotangco> yeah, i wrote a 10-line oem howto before breezy came out
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> 1. insert cd
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> the new oem install is now a menu on boot though
<FreakinNuts> jsgotangco: remember, computer literate people aren't the person that my guides are really intended for.
<FreakinNuts> robotgeek: I'd like to get everything put together in a package that way that during the adoption class we can 'apt-get' the customization package.
<robotgeek> FreakinNuts: hmm, okay. not sure how to do that, sorry
<FreakinNuts> robotgeek: I've made .deb's before.
<FreakinNuts> my big offer for help is if that you have documentation that is lacking or needs some help, I'd be willing to help/write/as needed.
<FreakinNuts> Some examples of what I've done already: http://freegeekcolumbus.org/wiki/New_Freekbox_Manual
<jsgotangco> the OEM is a good start
<Burglaptop> any  thoughts on this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto?action=diff
<Burglaptop> FreakinNuts: hey, welcome
<Burglaptop> FreakinNuts: we spoke on the phone
<Burglaptop> jsgotangco: I think I am going to revert that last edit to pbuilder
<FreakinNuts> Burglaptop: Yup :)
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: the sudo cat "APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated 1;" >> will not work
<LaserJock> what about PbuilderHowto?
<Burglaptop> robotgeek: can you revert it to using sudo, not sudo -s and fix the howto
<robotgeek> cat "APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated 1;" | sudo tee -a  /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/apt.conf.d/allow-unauthenticated
<Burglaptop> LaserJock: the conversion to sudo -s
* robotgeek looks at page again
<LaserJock> hmm, I guess I didn't get emailed about that :/
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: sorry, my mistake. it will work 
<Burglaptop> LaserJock: subscribe
<LaserJock> I thought I had, I generally subscibe to all MOTU related pages as I kind try to clean up/ structure the MOTU wiki
<mdke> robotgeek, that yelp bug should be fixed since yesterday
<Madpilot> hi mdke 
* mdke reads scrollback
<mdke> hiya Madpilot 
<robotgeek> mdke: yup, i know. very nice
<jsgotangco> yeah it works now
<mdke> it's really a bug in our fonts, I think
<robotgeek> hmm, i dunno. i calls them as i sees them :)
<jsgotangco> mdke, its actually upstream, if you mean character 2002 and 2003
<mdke> jsgotangco, yes, but that bug isn't present if you use (e.g.) fedora, it's due to a missing character in our fonts
<jsgotangco> interesting
<Madpilot> no half-space glyph in Sans? (I think someone said it was the half-space causing the error
<Madpilot> )
<mdke> yes
* mdke joggles mpt
* robotgeek fools around with vim some more
<Madpilot> if anyone's actually using that bit of bash aliasing I sent to the list a while ago, try this version instead: alias usvn='cd ~/ubuntu-doc && svn up && zenity --text="Ubuntu DocTeam SVN Updated" --info'
<jsgotangco> nice zenity
<Madpilot> note that AFAIK this version is Gnome-specific
<jsgotangco> notification bling
<robotgeek> Madpilot: yup, i have a nice patcher script, if you are interested :)
<Madpilot> yeah, the zenity bit is pure bling :P
* Burglaptop watches his brother turn into a gentoo user
<Madpilot> Burglaptop, bite me
<Madpilot> at least it's Gnome-based bling and I haven't been seduced over to KDE :)
<Burglaptop> right
<robotgeek> Madpilot: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9509
<robotgeek> also for anyone who emails mass patches :)
<Madpilot> robotgeek, nice -  might have to put that to use if my commit access takes much longer
<robotgeek> Madpilot: yeah, i am waiting too :)
<mdke>  [08:08:57]  < stub> Launchpad is going down in 15 minutes time, which will also put the wikis into read only mode. Estimated down time is 10 minutes.
<Madpilot> robotgeek, got that saved in Tomboy, along with a bunch of other notes on Bash & such
<robotgeek> Madpilot: replace the M with a ?, and the svn diff with a rm, and lo..you have a cleaner script :)
<Madpilot> useful
<bhuvan> mdke: why havnt we providing dapper ubuntu-docs update for quite sometime ?
<bhuvan> s/havnt we/we are not/
<Burglaptop> night all
<robotgeek> can someone clarify the DNS setting in (k)Ubuntu
<robotgeek> i thought it was handled automagically?
<bhuvan> robotgeek: yes ?
<robotgeek> then why do we have the dns server setting in Network Settings?
<robotgeek> or dns, at all
* bhuvan looks network settings
<robotgeek> it looks like a copy of /etc/hosts
<bhuvan> nope, if you meant dns
<bhuvan> robotgeek: dns configuration is not necessary if your network is configured via dhcp
<bhuvan> the dns server details are automagically (as you said) configured. refer /etc/resolv.conf for details
<robotgeek> hmm, okay. only in case of static ip?
<bhuvan> yep, you are correct, in case of static, we can configure dns server details in that screen
<robotgeek> bhuvan: thanks, i'll add that bit in the KDG
<bhuvan> should it be in kdg or serverguide ?
* bhuvan is not sure!
<robotgeek> bhuvan: the gui tool is there, just one line on "connect to internet"
<bhuvan> oh ok
<bhuvan> sometimes isp provide dns server details and it will be configured automatically, you can specify this
<bhuvan> sometimes they would do it automatically, so we should configure them manually
<bhuvan> s/would/wont
<robotgeek> ah, okay. thanks for information
<bhuvan> mdke: ping
<mdke> bhuvan, pong
<mdke> bhuvan, there was an ubuntu-docs upload 7 days ago
<bhuvan> but, debian/control is dated feb 03 ?
<jsgotangco> did your stylesheets get accepted?
<mdke> jsgotangco, not yet, I don't think
<jsgotangco> nnn
<mdke> bhuvan, look at /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/changelog.gz
<bhuvan> mdke, ok
<bhuvan> mdke, thanks. it is as on feb 13
<mdke> it should be feb 21
<robotgeek> should i retain the stuff about mozilla-firefox in KDG
<Madpilot> is FF in Kubuntu by default?
<robotgeek> nope
<jpatrick> Konqueror
<jsgotangco> we need no stinkeen''' memory hog
<robotgeek> amen
<jsgotangco> :D
<mdke> heh
<robotgeek> so i'll leave all the firefox tips out, and see if i can add any neat konquror tips
<Madpilot> yeah, that's why I use Opera :p
<mdke> <- epiphany
<jpatrick> I have a svn diff
<jsgotangco> yeah but epi still uses moz
<Madpilot> Epiph has some cool features - it might even tempt me away from Opera in a few versions
<bhuvan> mdke, i did update! now it shows feb 21, i guess we should update the file in our svn repo accordingly anyhow 
<mdke> bhuvan, yes, I'll ask dholbach to merge in his changes
<bhuvan> ok
<jsgotangco> Madpilot, i like my web 2.0 stuff though, i wish epiphany was a bit extensible compared to firefox
<Madpilot> meh. Extensions are an excuse for laziness on the part of browser devs.
<Madpilot> (only half joking...) :p
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> mdke, if you have time, can you make a review of the g-a-i manual so i could make final changes to it
<mdke> jsgotangco, ok, i won't be likely to get to it before this weekend though, I'm afraid
<jsgotangco> mdke, no worries
<mdke> got a sort of exam thing at work
<jsgotangco> exam at work?
<jsgotangco> what sick employer does that
<jsgotangco> heh
<mdke> :)
<robotgeek> any idea why the open office suite isn't mentioned at all in the common-tasks section of the udg?
<mdke> robotgeek, we haven't got round to it
<mdke> patches welcome on the office section, it's incredibly short
<robotgeek> mdke: hmm, feel free to copy from KDG. i think the section here is decent
<mdke> ok i'll have a look
* robotgeek will send in the patches after he is thru with this section
<robotgeek> mdke: still working on common tasks, verifying,merging, deleteing etc 
<mdke> oh yeah, you never sent me that mega patch
<robotgeek> mdke: yeah, i spent the weekend at a friends. got drunk!
<mdke> tut tut :)
<jpatrick> robotgeek: at last you can drink
<robotgeek> jpatrick: yup. met my friend after 3 years
<jpatrick> cool :)
<robotgeek> off to bed
<jpatrick> hey Kamping_Kaiser 
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi jpatrick, what's up 
<jpatrick> packaging work and writing docs...
<Kamping_Kaiser> I'm about to write docs, just not for us :/ lifes a strange beast like that
<jpatrick> I'm doing Packaging Guide
<Kamping_Kaiser> getting there (i seem to recall something from the list, but i'm a bit tired)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm about to try and write a few paras on "I know that some programs are free to be copied and distributed where as others have copyright that limits distribution" and "i know that some standards are agreed by many interested parties whereas others are determined and controlled by individual interests" for some ingots training
<robotgeek> mdke: ping
<robotgeek> rob: ping
<jpatrick> robotgeek: you slept for two hours
<robotgeek> jpatrick: i havent slept at all
<robotgeek> i wanted to finish the common tasks chapter today before sleeping
<jpatrick> ah, right
<robotgeek> i tried to, but couldn't :)
<robotgeek> the sooner I finish this, i can work on other stuff
<jpatrick> kfocus will be ready in a few moments
<robotgeek> jpatrick: heh, i only need the menu entry location :)
<jpatrick> it's in Utilites now
<robotgeek> works for me :)
<jpatrick> I have a ~20kb diff for PackGuide
<nao23> Hi, is this the place one can come for answers?
<robotgeek> nao23: for support questions, please go to #ubuntu
<nao23> ok, thx
<mdke> robotgeek, hi
<robotgeek> mdke: just wanted to mention references to "sudo gedit" need to be corrected
<robotgeek> to gksudo gedit
<mdke> robotgeek, yes, ideally, although sudo gedit works I think
<robotgeek> mdke: NEVER use sudo to start graphical programs. You should always use gksudo or kdesu to run such programs, otherwise new login attempts may fail. If this happens and at login an error message reports: "Unable to read ICE authority file", log in using the failsafe terminal and execute the command below subsituting user for your username.
<robotgeek> has happened to me on gnome, and can be quite painful
<mdke> that only happens on a kde/gnome split system, right?
<robotgeek> mdke: nope, even on a pure gnome system
<mdke> it doesn't happen if you run gnome apps with sudo in gnome
<robotgeek> mdke: that's what the wiki says 
<mdke> I've never seen that on my system, although I do it regularly
<mdke> anyway, no reason not to use gksudo, of course
<robotgeek> s/sudo/gksudo :)
<mdke> ??
<robotgeek> mdke: sorry, vim search and replace :)
<mdke> ah
<mdke> that would be bad
<robotgeek> %s/sudo gedit/gksudo gedit/g
<robotgeek> that would work :)
<robotgeek> jpatrick: is there any other way to manage startup session programs other than "Save Session on Logout"
<jpatrick> robotgeek: ~/.kde/Autostart
<jpatrick> put a .desktop file there
<robotgeek> jpatrick: and that can be copied from /usr/share /applications?
<jpatrick> Yes
<robotgeek> nice and easy, thanks
<jpatrick> global: /usr/share/autostart
<mdke> if there's a graphical way, best to document that first though
<jpatrick> kcontrol-autostart
<mdke> robotgeek, ^^
<robotgeek> thanks! i prefer to document the gui way
<Kaiser_Away> robotgeek: in all honesty i have only seen the ice issue when KDE apps are run sudo under Gnome (k3b springs to mind), but i still recomiend people against using sudo for the gui *shrug*. 
<robotgeek> Kaiser_Away: might be it, but people will definetly mix and match. it might be better to prefer to gksudo way
<Kaiser_Away> sure. just trying to add a bit of confustion :)
<robotgeek> jpatrick: done with the changes for today. diff worth 292 K :)
<jpatrick> :o
* jpatrick svn's up
<robotgeek> jpatrick: no, someone has to commit it first
<jpatrick> right :)
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: ping :)
<mdke> and even before that, someone has to send it
<robotgeek> mdke: sent it
<jsgotangco> robotgeek, hi
<mdke> well, it has to arrive then
<robotgeek> crap, just overshot the limit i think
<robotgeek> is it 40 kb/50 kb?
<jsgotangco> doh
<jsgotangco> hold on
<robotgeek> and that was after compressing, lol
<jpatrick> robotgeek: just overshot?
<robotgeek> jpatrick: it said 49.1 kb after compression
<mdke> don't push the file through if it's 282k
<mdke> oh phew
<jsgotangco> done
<robotgeek> thanks jsgotangco
<mdke> committed
<jpatrick> If I have <bddebian@comcast.net> <- how doI stop that from being a tag?
<robotgeek> thanks mdke
<robotgeek> might not validate with one omission in libs/kde.ent
<mdke> jpatrick, &lt;bddebian@comcast.net&gt;
<mdke> robotgeek, best have a patch for that too, we need things to build for the preview server
<robotgeek> mdke: yes, i can also patch the Makefile if you wish
<mdke> robotgeek, is it necessary? or are you using desktopguide/C/mk?
<jpatrick> thanks
<robotgeek> mdke: hmm, i am actually just using yelp. the mk file works as such, but it doesn't build status and such
<robotgeek> mdke: it's just 2 lines, actually
<jpatrick> mdke: sent a patch
<jsgotangco> rob, it doesn't validate
<jsgotangco> robotgeek, it doesnt validate
<jsgotangco> oh
<jsgotangco> nvm
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: patch sent
<jsgotangco> i still don't see it
<jsgotangco> anyway someone will patch it
<jsgotangco> i gotta sleep
<robotgeek> same here :)
<jsgotangco> cheers
<mdke> jpatrick, thanks. I won't apply it though, laserjock takes care of the packaging guide
<jpatrick> I'll wait for him
<mdke> thanks
<jpatrick> hey LaserJock !
<jpatrick> one whooping patch @ ubuntu-doc waiting for you
<LaserJock> jpatrick: saw, that. thanks
<LaserJock> I should get it applied this morning before the TB meeting ;-)
<jpatrick> when is it?
<LaserJock> 20:00UTC, but I'm going to try to be last because I have a meeting at 20:00
<LaserJock> jpatrick: lol, did you get the merging material from the wiki?
<jpatrick> err :)
<LaserJock> I wrote that wiki page. it looked a little familiar
<LaserJock> :)
<jjesse> did that .diff for the packaging guide get applied/
<jjesse> if it hasn't by the time i get back from lunch i'll apply it
<jpatrick> soon
<jpatrick> lunch eh? with anyone?
<jjesse_lunch> nope, just lunch break @ work :)
<jpatrick> ah well
<LaserJock> jjesse_lunch: I'm working on it presently
<mdke_> jjesse_lunch, best to leave packaging guide stuff to Laserjock
<mdke_> he's best equipped to check it all
<jjesse_lunch> mdke_: didn't know he had svn access
<LaserJock> jpatrick: so we need this kdepot patch, correct?
<jpatrick> yes
<mdke_> jjesse_lunch, ah right, he does :)
<LaserJock> jjesse_lunch: I do, thank goodness
<jpatrick> Riddell took it of the site
<jpatrick> so I made a files dir
<jpatrick> just didn't come out in the diff
<LaserJock> jpatrick:is there a place I can download it from? or can I get you to email the patch to me
<mdke_> "svn add filename" if you've added a new file and want it in the diff
<jpatrick> mdke_: ok I'll remember that
<jpatrick> LaserJock: sent
<LaserJock> jpatrick: thanks
<jpatrick> I'm going to do upgrade notes tonight
<LaserJock> jpatrick: ok, I'm applying your stuff. Just remember to put <para> inside of <note>, etc. ;-)
<LaserJock> jpatrick: you can validate what your doing by running validate.sh on the packagingguide.xml file
<jpatrick> LaserJock: didn't I?
<jpatrick> :/ hmm
<LaserJock> I had to add a few, np though
<robotgeek> mdke: Can you apply my minor patch? or are you still reviewing?
<LaserJock> robotgeek: good news, I made MOTU!
<robotgeek> LaserJock: congrats!!
<robotgeek> LaserJock: awesome!
<LaserJock> thanks
<robotgeek> very nice...science team has 2 MOTU's now :)
<LaserJock> yes, that is very important
<LaserJock> I haven't seen tritium for a while
<jpatrick> and there are 6 kde ones
<robotgeek> jpatrick: :)
<robotgeek> jpatrick: maybe i'll get involved in packaging stuff for dapper+1
<LaserJock> I'm pretty DE neutral, I'm an equal opportunity MOTU ;-)
<robotgeek> :)
<jpatrick> robotgeek: great :)
<robotgeek> jpatrick: who knows what which DE will have my fancy then, lol
<LaserJock> ratpoison ;-)
<robotgeek> i love my control keys, ty very much 
<LaserJock> FVWM perhaps?
<LaserJock> I think in my gentoo days I might have possibly installed every WM known
<robotgeek> maybe, i'll just stick to KDE. it is very nice
<robotgeek> LaserJock: you had time to kill, did you not :)
<robotgeek> i compiled Fluxbox and left it at that
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> I was definitely a merge-aholic
<robotgeek> heh
<LaserJock> hmm, that reminds me, I downloaded the new Gentoo .iso last night
<LaserJock> arghh, so many distros, so little time :(
* jpatrick just uses Kubuntu
<LaserJock> I'm using Windows, OSX, Ubuntu/Kubuntu, and a few qemu images on the side ;-)
<jpatrick> I threw Windows ages ago
<jpatrick> and I don't have a Maz
<jpatrick> mac*
<robotgeek> jjesse: ping
<mdke> robotgeek, i applied it already
<mdke> LaserJock, congratulations
<robotgeek> mdke: ah, thanks
<LaserJock> mdke: thanks, it is a big relief to have that over
<mdke> :)
<mdke> pleased for ya
<jjesse> robotgeek: pong
<LaserJock> now I can get some doc team work done ;-)
<robotgeek> jjesse: nvm, mdke applied it already :)
<jjesse> ah
#ubuntu-doc 2007-02-26
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3866 kubuntu/ (5 files in 4 dirs): added hardware section, added content
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3867 ubuntu/games/C/games.xml: Transferred a lot of material from games.xml in kubuntu
<nixternal> man, I think I have created, or have enclosed myself in DocHell
<LaserJock> yeah?
<nixternal> ya, I am trying to finish Kubuntu docs right, but everytime I get into something, I am like this doesn't fit, and I break it out
<nixternal> then I am like, damn there is this on the wiki that would be good in here as well
<nixternal> and then I look at my network.xml, it is simply beautiful, EXCEPT, I don't have the dial-up stuff in there yet
<nixternal> I am so close to completing the Kubuntu docs
<nixternal> just over a week to go, so we should be good
<LaserJock> nixternal:  goodness, you guys trying to get people excited about LoCo documentation or something?
<j1mc> LaserJock, we are pumped about docs.  :)
<LaserJock> what are the docs for?
<LaserJock> how to run a LoCo?
<j1mc> oh, sorry, i misunderstood your question . . .
<j1mc> i'm in nixternal's loco, but haven't talked to him about loco docs
<LaserJock> I just see 3 planet posts today about it
<nixternal> LaserJock: hahahaha, yes we are trying to attract people to help document all of the LoCo stuff
<LaserJock> is there a lot of stuff to document?
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3868 kubuntu/system-settings/C/system-settings.xml: added content to system-settings
<Madpilot> bug #1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ichthux "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Ubugtu> New bug: #87969 in ubuntu-docs (main) "undefined entities in packagingguide -- cron errors" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87969
<Markon> hi
<LaserJock> is bug# 87969 my fault?
<LaserJock> bug #87969
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 87969 in ubuntu-docs "undefined entities in packagingguide -- cron errors" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87969
<nixternal> of course it is
<nixternal> :)
<h4writer_> hi, got a question. I'm trying to update the yelp layout so it fits feisty. Now I'm have no knowledge about .c and a couple of things need to be changed. Is here someone that has the knowledge?
<LaserJock> what are you trying to do exactly?
<LaserJock> what are you updating?
<h4writer_> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=367825&page=2
<h4writer_> so I want to change the layout of search to to this
<h4writer_> but I can't get the list of the left-bar
<h4writer_> so it need to be written in .c (probably copied from the already existing toc)
<LaserJock> well, it's getting a little late in the release for this stuff
<LaserJock> but the person you'd want to talk to is Matthew East
<h4writer_> okey, so he would be able to adjust that
<h4writer_> (I know it is a bit late, but it's the first time I do this, so I didn't now)
<LaserJock> h4writer_:  the best thing would be to email the ubuntu-doc list
<h4writer_> and do you have the email by hand?
<LaserJock> ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
<h4writer_> thanks
<LaserJock> h4writer_:  I like the look of what you've done, btw
<h4writer_> thanks
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3869 ubuntu/browser-startpage/ (27 files): updating version number as per bug 80390
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 80390 in ubuntu-docs "Feisty's default Firefox homepage still reports Edgy" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80390
#ubuntu-doc 2007-02-27
<Ubugtu> New bug: #87472 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Using chmod 400 ~/.recently-used does not work for the .xbel file" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87472
<nixternal> shush Ubugtu
<nixternal> what happened to the scanmodem utility?
<nixternal> err, this is going to require some research unfortunately
<nixternal> there is no way for us to document setting up a Linmodem, it would be the largest document ever
<nixternal> I am looking at the linmodem.org website and it is nuts
<tonyyarusso> nixternal: I have dialup and home and a linmodem in my machine.  Prior to using Linux I didn't know what a winmodem even was.  Imagine how much fun my first week after my Hoary disks came was.  ;)
<tonyyarusso> You're best shot at documenting it is "Use scanModem and send it to the linmodems.org mailing list.  Let them handle you."
<tonyyarusso> *Your
<nixternal> ya, this is for the system docs though
<nixternal> I think what I will do is kind of hold their hand and point them to linmodems.org truthfully
<nixternal> there are up to 500+ win/lin modem installations
<tonyyarusso> Yeah
<nixternal> I am chatting with a linmodem guy now. he said it would take us over a year to document each type, and by the time we finished, most of the docs would be outdated
<nixternal> haha, lovely
<nixternal> he just said the same thing as you, point them to their site
<Admiral_Chicago> lolz
<nixternal> I have a winmodem, I wonder if it even works
<Admiral_Chicago> thats what i would do.
<nixternal> dude, there is an old bug concerning getting this documented, no reason reinventing the wheel, plus we couldn't use their docs since they are gfdl anyways
<Admiral_Chicago> whats the problem with GFDL?
<nixternal> we are silly CC-by-SA
<Admiral_Chicago> oh really...hmm
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: how busy are you?
<nixternal> I need someone to briefly document Kubuntu System Settings, shorthand would work so I can do a quick write up of each subtopic
<Admiral_Chicago> just doing a bit of code. i can work
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm on it
<nixternal> are you familiar with XML at all?
<nixternal> let me meinproc this code really quick and get you a copy so you can understand my layout
<Admiral_Chicago> i *know* XMl so far as I know the accronym / its applications.
<Admiral_Chicago> okay.
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> xml is pretty easy tagging wise
<nixternal> DocBook makes it easier as well
<Admiral_Chicago> well I have system settings open and I'm looking working on it.
<Admiral_Chicago> we can worry about formatting when we have content. :)
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: http://nixternal.com/docs/kubuntu/sysset-tmp/
<nixternal> everything under the bold headers (i.e., Personal, Look & Feel, etc.) like About Me, Accessibility and what not
<nixternal> just take KWord or whatever you use and write a brief description of what you can do with it, i.e., 1 or 2 lines
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: on it
<nixternal> I should have Mike do this since this is his baby, but oh well
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: make it good so it makes my job easier and of course makes me look a little better than what I do now :)
<nixternal> and I will get you some pimpage in the contribs file for system documentation
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: truthfully, you have a couple of days if you would like to work on it
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: nah truthfully I do have time and this is something I can do
<Admiral_Chicago> so tonight I can look at something
<nixternal> rock on
<nixternal> just email it to me when you are done, and I can check it over and let you know
<nixternal> thanks!
<nixternal> oooh, I am hiring RJ right nwo
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: documentation away...
<nixternal> go go go
<Admiral_Chicago> just making sure its good so far
* Admiral_Chicago waits for feedback.
<nixternal> did you email me?
<Admiral_Chicago> yup
<nixternal> making a phone call, bbiaf
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3870 kubuntu/ (network/C/network.xml system-settings/C/system-settings.xml): work work work
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3871 kubuntu/firefox-startpage/kubuntu.css: good eye Jucato, changed the header background color
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: I replied to your email, but that is exactly what I am interested in
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: sweetness
* Admiral_Chicago continues
<Admiral_Chicago> btw, i haven't ran this through a spell checker, i run it through nano and kate.
<nixternal> that's fine
<tonyyarusso> I think nano has spell-check, actually.  I remember doing that once.
<Admiral_Chicago> f 10 i think
<Admiral_Chicago> f 12 but it failed for some reason
<Admiral_Chicago> there is another one..
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: does it work?
<Admiral_Chicago> err better question, is that good so far?
<Admiral_Chicago> i think I'll tackle one more section before the night is out
<nixternal> can't tell you
<nixternal> Feisty users,don't upgrade, otherwise you will have a wasted system for the time being
<j1mc> no sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade tonight?  what'll it do?
<Admiral_Chicago> i upgraded today...just finished..i'll just not shut down
<nixternal> j1mc: it will leave you with tty1-6
<Admiral_Chicago> is it the kernel?
<j1mc> ah
<Admiral_Chicago> it's on -9 now
<nixternal> nah it isn't the kernel
<nixternal> this lappy is hosed with the -8 and the -9 kernel
<Admiral_Chicago> no problems here. i'm looking at a bug report...i'll let you know in the other channel
<LaserJock> nixternal: what's hosed?
<nixternal> x-windows
<nixternal> I am guessing
<nixternal> it is saying my last line in my xorg.conf is booged, but it is fine
<nixternal> I have been using the same xorg.conf for a month now
<nixternal> man I need this lappy for the morning too for school. I have to present my program
<nixternal> what updates were there tonight?
<LaserJock> nixternal: get rid of xorg.conf
<nixternal> did that
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> and it still complains?
<nixternal> ya, trying something really quick
<nixternal> brb
<LaserJock> I moved xorg.conf aside and restarted X and it worked fine
<nixternal> yay
<nixternal> LaserJock: what was that all about?
<nixternal> I did dpkg-reconfigure
<nixternal> 2nd time was a charm
<LaserJock> we no long have xorg.confs
<Admiral_Chicago> good
<nixternal> wth?
<nixternal> for real
<LaserJock> xorg 7.2 has automagical stuff
<LaserJock> it configs each time
<LaserJock> no more config files
<nixternal> lordy lordy that is nice?
<nixternal> so I can remove my xorg.conf totally/
<LaserJock> we'll see how well it works
<LaserJock> yeah
<nixternal> how do I enable composite for Beryl?
<Admiral_Chicago> awesome
<LaserJock> not sure
<nixternal> heh
<LaserJock> maybe it enables it if it's ok
<nixternal> well I am going to try
<LaserJock> it seems to work fine on my lappy
<LaserJock> but I don't use anything fancy
<nixternal> I found a downfall to no xorg.conf
<nixternal> I have 2 mice once again
<nixternal> I can't make changes to the xorg.conf to turn on the silly synaptics option to shut off the mouse when an external is plugged in
* nixternal goes back to Edgy
<highvoltage> nixternal: quitter! :)
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> this new xorg sucks
* highvoltage just upgraded yesterday
<nixternal> I am sorry, I can't have this silly synaptics touchpad enabled the entire time
<nixternal> I always hit it when I type
<highvoltage> you can fine tune synaptics settings
<LaserJock> you just need to find out how that's being handled nowadays
<highvoltage> what you can do is, make it so insensitive, that you have to hammer it to get a response
<highvoltage> nixternal: http://web.telia.com/~u89404340/touchpad/xorg.conf
<highvoltage> look under the section "InputDevice"
<highvoltage> you can copy and paste that into your Xorg.conf and make your touchpad less sensative, that way you can still use it, when you really want to
<nixternal> ya, I need that SHMConfig enabled, which I had in my old xorg.conf
<nixternal> which wouldn't boot
<nixternal> my xorg.conf is gone, not here no more. 7.2 doesn't have it/use it
<nixternal> I am wondering if 7.2 doesn't like the composite stuff
<nixternal> omg the pissed off masses are coming!
<nixternal> they can't use beryl!!!
<nixternal> hahahaha
<nixternal> ooh, they can
<Admiral_Chicago> too bad :(
<nixternal> composite works
<nixternal> quite crappy, but it works
<nixternal> hiya jjesse
<nixternal> a little late for you isn't it?
<jjesse> just got into the hotel in provo utah
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> where did you fly out of?
<jjesse> grand rapids
<jjesse> grand rapids -> denver -> salt lake cirty
<nixternal> fun
<nixternal> I am hoping to have the Kubuntu docs complete here within the next few days so they can be proofed
* Admiral_Chicago helps :)
<jjesse> yeah i need to fiish the chpt for deb
<nixternal> hopefully get about a week of proofing in, then submit for translations
<LaserJock> nixternal: is your edubuntu-docs package ready to upload?
<nixternal> ummm, no
<nixternal> the handbook is garbag
<nixternal> e
<nixternal> it isn't complete, never been proofed
<LaserJock> well, is it going to be ready before March 8th?
<LaserJock> at least pretty much there
<nixternal> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<nixternal> there is its current state
<nixternal> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/intro-installtype.html
<nixternal> for instance, there are a lot of those pages that people said they would work on, however they disappeared
<nixternal> I don't know how I got stuck with the whole thing, my job was to guide them, get them in our repos, and help them when needed (them being hedgemage, pygi, and such), but they all split
<LaserJock> basic concepts is missing too :/
<nixternal> I want to get it done, but seeing as I am the only one on Kubuntu docs, it is kind of tough
<nixternal> LaserJock: maybe we can theive a little bit from ubuntu-docs?
<LaserJock> well sure, I'm not saying you have to write the whole dar thing
<Admiral_Chicago> i'll proof a bit if you need me to
<LaserJock> *darn
<LaserJock> we can basically remove sections we don't get done
<LaserJock> I'm just wondering if we'll have anything worth putting edubuntu-docs in Main for
<nixternal> LaserJock: OK, I will go through them in the next couple of days and see exactly where we are
<LaserJock> do you have a working edubuntu-docs package I could upload?
<nixternal> about-edubuntu, releasenotes?, school advocacy
<nixternal> I had that old one which needed the license stuff fixed and what not
<LaserJock> I just saw pitti was up and was going to get him to do a MIR if we are set
<nixternal> LaserJock: http://nixternal.com/docs/edubuntu/feisty-package/
<nixternal> that is the same as before though
<LaserJock> which need the proper licensing, right?
<nixternal> correct
<nixternal> I swore you fixed that already, or did you fix some other licensing issues?
<nixternal> next cycle will be a little bit better, as there won't be as much Kubuntu work, unless by the grace of God KDE 4 evolves
<nixternal> but after freeze and importing translations, I am going to be hoofing it in the KDE camp for a bit working on some KDE 4 pieces
<LaserJock> I fixed some other licensing stuff
<nixternal> ahh, OK
<LaserJock> but you need to make sure it's ok to relicense Edubuntu docs
<nixternal> Will said it was, but I would confer with him again on it
<nixternal> Will said do whatever so book implmentations could make their way in
<LaserJock> then make sure to update the bookinfo files to the same as Ubuntu's
<nixternal> ahh, I was lost for a sec. Gotcha, with the single &legalnotice; or whatever it is?
<LaserJock> that might be all
<LaserJock> the .omf needs updating
<LaserJock> make sure it's CC 2.5
<nixternal> roger dodger
* nixternal needs to bed, early day tomorrow
<nixternal> I can work on it from class
<nixternal> LaserJock: would you mind popping an email to me letting me know what all needs to be done?
<nixternal> and tomorrow in between classes I will work on it, get into the lab and get a pre-release upload
<LaserJock> k
<nixternal> and I will work on the Handbook this week along side the kubuntu stuff trying to fill it up
<nixternal> I would love to have a week of proofing though
<nixternal> at least
<nixternal> crim$un will burn his eyeballs out proofing :)
* Admiral_Chicago waves frantically. I can do proofing
<nixternal> oh you will do proofing
<nixternal> you are under my reigns here in Chicago homey!
<Admiral_Chicago> gah...I have break the 9th of March, so throw any work you want at me
<nixternal> I am the mob boss around here. I am Tony Soprano, you are, I don't know Pauly? Christopher?
<nixternal> doesn't matter who you are really, you are about to get whacked
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm like...the bartender at your speakeasy
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> or a dancer at the bada bing
<nixternal> gahahahahha
<Admiral_Chicago> lol. that's RJ
<nixternal> alright, bed time
<nixternal> LaserJock: thanks! I hope to have some more work for you this week on it, I apologize for a little ball droppage on this one as well
<nixternal> g'nite
<LaserJock> hmm, where has mdke gone?
<Madpilot> !now london
<Madpilot> @now london
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/London: February 27 2007, 08:38:56
<Madpilot> enroute to work?
<LaserJock> hmm, perhaps
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r3872 edubuntu/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * edubuntu license fix
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation:  - SchoolAdvocacy moved to CC-BY-SA 2.5
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation:  - Edubuntu Release Notes moved to CC-BY-SA 2.5
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation:  - About Edubuntu moved to CC-BY-SA 2.5
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * removed about-edubuntu legal.xml as it wasn't used anywhere
<mooey> howdy. i'm triaging a bug about documentation in the desktop guide. i have filed it against the package 'ubuntu-docs', should i ask the reporter to refile it under the 'ubuntu-doc' product in launchpad?
<nixternal> LaserJock_: I am here now :)
<nixternal> sitting in the uni library, going to work on that package now
<LaserJock_> nixternal: so you got my email?
<nixternal> last night, yes
<nixternal> I will make them install to edubuntu/ and change the omf files
<nixternal> LaserJock_: Will has a patch for Edubuntu docs, yay! it adds a little more meat
<LaserJock_> yeah, saw that
<nixternal> I will apply that before doing this package
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3873 edubuntu/handbook/C/introduction.xml: Will's introduction patch for the Edubuntu Handbook
<nixternal> LaserJock_: gnome/help/edubuntu?
<LaserJock_> yeah, you'll need to test it to make sure it still works
<LaserJock_> but it seems logical that it would
<nixternal> it will work, I can't test until tonight though, KDE only currently (and forever)
<LaserJock_> nixternal: if you get the source package all ready I can test
<nixternal> OK. Doing them now
<nixternal> LaserJock_: I see what you mean about the lib files going everything
<nixternal> err, everywhere
<nixternal> I just noticed that the Ubuntu debian/copyright has GFDL and CC-by-SA 2.5
<nixternal> ahh, nevermind, misread, got it
<nixternal> LaserJock_: v0.4-1ubuntu1 for the release?
<nixternal> shoot
<LaserJock_> what is it now?
<nixternal> haha, what version should I use for this package?
<nixternal> the last changelog v was 19-May-2006 and was 0.4-1
<nixternal> 0.5-1 for this one?
<nixternal> LaserJock_: I have to head to class now, so this will have to wait a few hours
<LaserJock_> k, I have to head to work, it's almost noon
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3874 edubuntu/debian/ (changelog copyright install rules): edubuntu-docs ready for packaging
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3875 edubuntu/ (4 files in 4 dirs): now its ready for packaging
<h4writer> is it normal it takes a time before I mail something and it get on the archives of https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/ ?
<h4writer> *before => after
<tonyyarusso> I think so, yes.
<h4writer> okey, I wasn't sure, thanks
<LaserJock> h4writer: I got your email
<h4writer> (y)
<h4writer> LaserJock: now hoping someone fix those things quickly, so I can work further. (I'm a bit workless now:p)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-02-28
<LaserJock> h4writer: well, I honestly wouldn't count on it all being done for Feisty
<LaserJock> depending on how things go
<h4writer> And the first two?
<tonyyarusso> the help center stuff?
<h4writer> the other I don't care it is done after fiesty
<h4writer> tonyyarusso: yes
<tonyyarusso> ah
<LaserJock> we've carefully gone over the yelp frontpage and have a yelp developer that is helping us
<LaserJock> it'll probably take some discussion
<h4writer> do you mean mkde? Or somebody else?
<LaserJock> no, somebody else
<dsas> h4writer: Don Scorgie I think.
<h4writer> okey
<LaserJock> mdke and Don do the yelp front page mostly
<h4writer> uhu
<h4writer> yesterday mdke was online at about this hour. That's why I'm waiting a bit to go to sleep. Hoping to catch him.
<tonyyarusso>  /whois mdke
<tonyyarusso> nvm me - was trying to check
<h4writer> yes, I tried it a time ago to
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3876 edubuntu/Makefile: fixed Edubuntu makefile
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3877 edubuntu/Makefile: fixed type on makefile
<nixternal> hiya jjesse
<jjesse> hiya
<jjesse> i'm so far behind
<jjesse> was !internet in training class
<nixternal> LaserJock: the package so build this time, forgot the silly common/
<nixternal> eww, no intarweb stinks
<jjesse> in training class all day
<LaserJock> nixternal: what?
<nixternal> silly typos by me in rules
<nixternal> like this one
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3878 edubuntu/debian/rules: silly typo
<nixternal> LaserJock: http://nixternal.com/docs/edubuntu/feisty-package/
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: i owe you some work, i have been busy all day. I'll get it to you soon
<Admiral_Chicago> btw, i fixed my "orphaned module" error, so I'll get the User Management stuff to you as well
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: check mail
<LaserJock> nixternal: we need to have eubuntu-docs depends on ubuntu-docs right?
<LaserJock_> nixternal: did you get my message
<LaserJock_> nixternal: alive?
<nixternal> I am alive now
<nixternal> watched the Bob Woodward special and made sure my mayor won re-election
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: he won?
<nixternal> of course
<nixternal> landslide like always
<nixternal> 70%+
<Admiral_Chicago> haha, well not with my vote
<Admiral_Chicago> the other 30% was dead people in DuPage country
<nixternal> LaserJock: are we going to make edubuntu-docs depend on ubuntu-docs then? if so I can fix that really quick
<LaserJock> nixternal: I assume so
<LaserJock> nixternal: I think the desription might also need to be updated to reflect that we aren't shipping HTML
<nixternal> roger
<nixternal> anything else b4 I rebuild?
<nixternal> should I put this on revu or keep doing it the way I have and put it on my server
<LaserJock> on the server is just fine
<nixternal> roger
<LaserJock> I don't like using REVU for non-NEW stuf
<nixternal> let me rebuild really quick
<LaserJock> *stuff
<nixternal> hehe, k
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3879 edubuntu/debian/control: fixing control to depend on ubuntu-docs and remove the html info from the description
<nixternal> test building it now
<nixternal> LaserJock: http://nixternal.com/docs/edubuntu/feisty-package/
<LaserJock> nixternal: I'me getting lots of errors
<nixternal> ey?
<nixternal> what kind of errors?
<LaserJock> handbook/C/contribute.xml:9: warning: failed to load external entity "../ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent"
<LaserJock> %gnome-menus-C;
<nixternal> shoot
<nixternal> one sec
<LaserJock> has putting them in edubuntu/ messed up the Ubuntu ents ?
<nixternal> no
<nixternal> err
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: i haven't got feedback to you yet. is the doc work good so far?
<nixternal> no it hasn't LaserJock, I just didn't have ubuntu/libs in the package
<Admiral_Chicago> s/yet/since the first time
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> well, you shouldn't have them in there
<nixternal> LaserJock: I somehow blew away the libs/ dir earlier for some reason
<nixternal> well ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent needs to be in there as a minimum
<nixternal> and that is what I did this time around
<nixternal> LaserJock: check my directory now
<LaserJock> nixternal: ok, hang on though
<LaserJock> those are installed by ubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> we can't install files that are going to be install by ubuntu-docs
<nixternal> LaserJock: that ent is just used to build the package
<nixternal> it isn't installed locally to the machine
<nixternal> oh wait, it is
<LaserJock> it shouldn' t if you made the install file changes
<nixternal> I did make the changes
<nixternal> they go to edubuntu/libs/ now
<nixternal> but for gnome-menu-C that is in ubuntu/libs and not trunk/libs
<nixternal> but you know what, I don't have it copying over the ubuntu/libs or the libs/ though
* nixternal checks something
<nixternal> the us.archives are garbage
<nixternal> LaserJock: this is goofy
<nixternal> KDE FTW! :)
<nixternal> LaserJock: the ubuntu-docs package slings the ent files everywhere as well
<nixternal> LaserJock: it will work!!!!
<nixternal> actually, the ubuntu-docs package is retarded
<LaserJock> nixternal: yes, I'm just saying we can't be slinging the same files
<LaserJock> what I had should work
<nixternal> LaserJock: in the package I just created, the only /libs slung were the edubuntu ones and they went into gnome/help/edubuntu/libs
<nixternal> why on earth am I using the Makefile then in Edubuntu docs if I am not building the HTML?
<LaserJock> why are you?
<LaserJock> I don't think you are
<nixternal> all that needs to be done is cp edubuntu/$$doc/C/*.xml to the proper
<nixternal> location
<nixternal> the Makefile builds HTML
<nixternal> so this stupid package I did, builds HTML into the build/ and does nothing with it
<nixternal> this is e.tarded
<LaserJock> hehe
<nixternal> I am glad you are laughing :)
<nixternal> man, take a look at the ubuntu-docs.install in the ubuntu-docs package
<nixternal> there is no way that is correct
<nixternal> *ent is put everywhere but /etc I think
<LaserJock> I know
<nixternal> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7894/
<nixternal> that is horsepoop
<LaserJock> I said that's leftovers form when we were building HTML
<LaserJock> that's why I gave you 1 line
<nixternal> heh, and that is great
<nixternal> but guess what, once you install the package, the docs aren't going to work
<LaserJock> why?
<nixternal> because the headers in each .xml file points to ../../../libs/blah and ../../../ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent
<LaserJock> I believe they are there though
<LaserJock> in ubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> hence all the flinging
<nixternal> dude, I don't want to hear it :)
<LaserJock> we might be off by one becuase of the edubuntu/ thing
<nixternal> after I stepped back and did the ../ and then ../ and then ../ I realized it will :)
<LaserJock> but if you count the ../'s I think it might come out ok
<nixternal> we won't be off because the the third ../ takes us out of edubuntu
<nixternal> that is where I was getting confused
<nixternal> the only problem though is still with the ../../../ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent
<nixternal> there is no ../../../ubuntu
<LaserJock> you sure?
<nixternal> it is ../../../ubuntu-docs
<nixternal> LaserJock: is it plausable to change the gnome-menus in the each xml just for the package to ubuntu-docs instead?
<nixternal> but that is going to cause build issue
<LaserJock> there's nothing to build!
<nixternal> the package will have the entity error though
<nixternal> building the package that is
<LaserJock> maybe that's ok
<nixternal> should we give that a try?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> seems like it's going to have issues regardless
<LaserJock> because we are relying on ubuntu-docs
<nixternal> that is rather hackish, and I would definitely put a README in debian/ explaining that
<nixternal> we have already created the depends on ubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> what in the build is complaining? scrollkeeper?
<nixternal> I didn't see any scrollkeeper complaints. remember you just seen the entity errors during pbuilder
<LaserJock> but nothing should be built
<nixternal> you are right, I need to kill that Makefile
<nixternal> that Makefile is giving us our errors
<nixternal> man, I am used to building Kubuntu docs man
<nixternal> and that is fixing as well next release
<nixternal> I am changing all Kubuntu docs from .xml to .docbook and creating the cache.tar.gz and doing it like KDE
<mpt> Has the simplified Help menu access been implemented yet in Feisty?
<LaserJock> how simplified?
<LaserJock> I can't remember what it's supposed to be
<mpt> As in, not a submenu any more
<mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpAndSupportAccess
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3880 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: clarification
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3881 edubuntu/Makefile: no building html for edubuntu-docs package
<poningru> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/video.html
<poningru> To activate DVD decryption, type the following line into a terminal prompt:
<poningru> -- sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/examples/install-css.sh
<poningru> ++ sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh
<LaserJock> mpt: yes, it has been implemented
<mpt> LaserJock, awesome
* mdke stretches
<LaserJock> hi mdke
<mdke> hiya
<mdke> how is everything going?
<LaserJock> oh, decently well
<LaserJock> and you?
<LaserJock> mdke: you see the email from the forums guy wanting to redo the front page look?
<mdke> yes, he mailed me privately first and I told him to mail the list
<LaserJock> he was in here again today waiting for you
<mdke> right
<mdke> seems enthusiastic, any thoughts on his email?
<LaserJock> well, I sort of think he needs to look at what we've got in Feisty already
<LaserJock> I kinda like the little search bar in the sidbar
<LaserJock> but it's kinda redundant with the search bar at the top
<mdke> well, he removes the one at the top: http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=26035&d=1172327793
<mdke> but yeah, he needs to work with the feisty code
<LaserJock> it's more control-centerish
<LaserJock> but like I told him today, we are quite far in the Feisty schedule to be starting this now
<mdke> yeah
<mpt> Control Center is not a good example to be starting from :-(
<mdke> mpt: will you have a look at his mockups and give him some feedback? I wouldn't like him to get discouraged, even if he is working at the wrong time in the release cylce
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> I think we could use his enthusiasm for sure
<mpt> mdke, sure
<LaserJock> he's gotten in there and tweaked stuff
<mdke> LaserJock: quite - the layout is not great atm
<mdke> mpt: thanks
<mdke> not long before string freeze now, we need to go over the docs and try and make sure there are no hideous gaps
<LaserJock> well, I just loaded up yelp
<LaserJock> and I can't access the man and info pages
<LaserJock> when I click on them in the Advanced Topics it's a blank page
<mpt> ok, docs-hacking time
<mdke> LaserJock: confirmed.
<LaserJock> k, it's always nice to know it's not just me
<mdke> I think I know the reason
<mdke> ok, off to work
<mpt> mdke, why would he have said "I'm now using feisty, but the .xslt file isn't change"
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<mpt> ah, it was because I'd not only svn rm-ed something, I'd also rm-ed it
<mpt> so svn silently sulked
* mpt wonders why "svn revert" doesn't
<Ubugtu> New bug: #88615 in xubuntu-meta (main) "Default Firefox homepage in Xubuntu 6.10 says 'Xubuntu 6.06' (dup-of: 67966)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88615
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3882 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: modem info (adsl, usb, and dialup) information added - ready for review
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3883 kubuntu/ (hardware/C/hardware.xml libs/kde-menus-C.ent): added keycombo for ctrl-alt-backspace and added hardware content - ati and nvidia driver installation info still needed
<h4writer> hi everybody, I'm getting some problems when I try to build yelp. When I run fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage, it stops with the error:
<h4writer> dpkg-source -b yelp-2.16.2
<h4writer> dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<tonyyarusso> h4writer: You need an @ubuntu.com address in the Maintainer field of debian/control
<h4writer> but I've got no @ubuntu.com address
<tonyyarusso> You'll need a team one or something then - I'm not quite sure how those work
<h4writer> I don't know it either:p
<tonyyarusso> ^^ he might
<h4writer> I'm now trying with autogen.sh
<h4writer> that will probably work;-)
<h4writer> tonyyarusso: I went to the #ubuntuforums channel a time ago and they said something of
<h4writer> (11:20:42 PM) tsmithe: h4writer, you need "Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com" as Maintainer
<h4writer> (11:20:50 PM) tsmithe: and yourself as XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<h4writer> and I didn't know what it means so I stopped searching. If I need to know I will know in the future:p
<tonyyarusso> h4writer: That's along the write lines at least.  However, yelp is in main, so ubuntu-motu would seem a bit out of place.
<h4writer> autogen.sh definitly worked, but I don't got the newest yelp. So I think you need to put in a certain way the .diff file in the source. Am I correct?
<tonyyarusso> I'm not sure about applying changes yet - I'm still working on making the initial package myself.
<h4writer> I think I've applied the .diff correctly
<h4writer> it's now building again
<LaserJock> h4writer: you could just make up an @ubuntu.com address if you're just testing
<h4writer> and where do I need to specify?
<LaserJock> h4writer: the Maintainer: field
<LaserJock> in debian/control
<LaserJock> mdke: around?
<LaserJock> mdke: the server guide and packaging guide are built as html. but there's currently no provision in the packages to make it easy to read them
<LaserJock> mdke: i.e. you have to open up /usr/share/ubuntu-serverguide/html/C/index.html in a browser
<h4writer> mpt_, I can make your request. I know python and gtk, so here it is c and gtk. So I can read a half;-)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-01
<nixternal> LaserJock: thanks for asking for help in the Edubuntu meeting :)
<LaserJock> np
<mpt_> h4writer, you are Hannes?
<nixternal> hey, we also need to look at implementing the Microsoft trademark rules and possibly the Mac trademark rules into our licensing stuff (&legalnotice;)
<nixternal> according to MS's website we are breaking the law by not labeling MS with the proper trademarks
<nixternal> and instead of <tradmark>Microsoft</trademark> and so on, they explicitly state we can just include it in the licensing file
<mpt_> nixternal, if you're not going to fix that yourself right now :-), I suggest reporting a bug
<h4writer> mpt_, yep I'm Hannes
<mpt_> h4writer, welcome!
<nixternal> mpt_: I am afraid to report that as a bug :)
<h4writer> thanks
<mpt_> It's great to have more people helping with the help
<nixternal> it is great to have people with helping with help to help others :)
<nixternal> my buddy is a copyright and trademark infringement attorney and I asked him about it, he said either fix it now or just wait for Microsoft to send us a "fix it or else" letter
<nixternal> heh, like everything else I do, I will wait for the letter
<mgalvin> hi everyone
<mgalvin> hey, anyone know whats been going on with the UWN
<nixternal> howdy Mr. Galvin
<mgalvin> hey nixternal
<nixternal> mgalvin: that is the Marketing team there, what is happening I really don't know
<nixternal> I heard that Cody has been in the hospital
<mgalvin> yea, its been quite over there, though someone here might know
<nixternal> heh, I see you already mailed the list
<mgalvin> oh, that sucks, hope he is ok
<mgalvin> yea
<nixternal> I don't know if it was major or not, I think Cory knows better though
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3884 kubuntu/index.xml: updating doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu index
<LaserJock> nixternal: so do you have an edubuntu-docs package that you're comfortable with?
<nixternal> close, all but the the gnome-menus-C.ent issue
<nixternal> <!ENTITY % gnome-menus-C SYSTEM "../../../ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent">
<nixternal> that won't work with Edubuntu if we place them in gnome/help/edubuntu
<nixternal> the easy package fix is 1) create gnome/help/ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent or 2) change the package documents to point to ../../../ubuntu-docs/ligs/gnome-menus-C.ent
<nixternal> s/ligs/libs/
<nixternal> LaserJock: are you using Ubuntu Feisty right now?
<nixternal> if so, double check ../../../ubuntu/libs just to make sure I am 100% correct
<nixternal> ls: /usr/share/gnome/help/ubuntu: No such file or directory
<nixternal> so the current edubuntu package will break if using gnome-menus-C.ent
<nixternal> alright, back to class
<Admiral_Chicago> ls: /usr/share/gnome/help/ubuntu: No such file or director
<LaserJock> nixternal: still around?
<bdmurray> I was checking out the ubuntu-serverguide package and noticed the contributors page link is broekn / didn't get converted cleanly
<LaserJock> ohh
<LaserJock> bdmurray: did you file a bug?
<bdmurray> LaserJock: I probably should.  I was trying to take a break from bug work though. ;)
<LaserJock> if you could just file it it'd be great
<LaserJock> I think I'll be on a big doc package fixing mission tonight
<bdmurray> LaserJock: done
<bdmurray> Will there be an ubuntu-serverguide package in Malone for bug reports?
<LaserJock> it should be there already
<LaserJock> I guess you should file bug reports on that for packaging issues and stuff like that
<bdmurray> It doesn't seem to be there
<LaserJock> oh right
* LaserJock is an idiot
<LaserJock> ubuntu-serverguide is just a .deb build from ubuntu-docs source package
<LaserJock> LP uses the source package not the .deb
<LaserJock> bbl
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: brian * r3885 common/preface.pot: Spacing issues
<bdmurray> that's neat
<Ubugtu> New bug: #88814 in ubuntu-doc "Server Guide link to contributor's page is broken" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88814
<nixternal> LaserJock: I am back
<LaserJock> sweet
<nixternal> is it?
<nixternal> ;p
<LaserJock> I was just building whatever you had
<nixternal> well just so you know, the gnome-menus-C isn't going to work with what I had
<LaserJock> right, but everything else?
<nixternal> everything else will be fine
<LaserJock> hmm, it's still building
<nixternal> hey, can you create a symlink for gnome/help/ubuntu-docs/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent to gnome/help/ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent?
<LaserJock> I was actually thinking of installing it into an ubuntu/
<LaserJock> there is no ubuntu/ currently
<LaserJock> ah, you are calling the deb rule
<LaserJock> deb: clean style about rn esa hb
<LaserJock> that rule should be empty
<nixternal> hrmm, I did empty it
<nixternal> check the svn
<nixternal> # deb: used for creating package for Edubuntu documentation
<nixternal> deb:
<LaserJock> I'm just looking at your package
<LaserJock> k, cool
<nixternal> maybe I didn't put a more recent one up there where I nixed that portion
<LaserJock> now lets see about this ent issue
<nixternal> heck, that entire part can be removed from debian/rules as well
<nixternal> we don't even need the Makefile for the package
<LaserJock> well, we might want to make minimal changes in case we want to do soemthing elese ;-)
<LaserJock> well, make is called
<nixternal> right
<LaserJock> so it's nice to have a fake rule
<nixternal> ok
<LaserJock> ok, now the ubuntu docs find the ent where?
<nixternal> hrmm, good question
<nixternal> ../../libs
<LaserJock>  /usr/share/gnome/ubuntu I think
<nixternal> no such dir
<LaserJock> oh /usr/share/gnome/help/libs/
<nixternal> that is one place
<nixternal> but those are the general libs, not the gnome-menu-C side
<nixternal> gnome-menu-C is in svn as trunk/ubuntu/libs
<LaserJock> ok, well here's one thing we could do
<LaserJock> we could put it in edubuntu/libs/
<LaserJock> and change the xml files
<LaserJock> hmm
<nixternal> I thought about that as well
<LaserJock> you know
<LaserJock> we really might want our own copy anyway
<LaserJock> becuase of all the Edu apps
<LaserJock> what do you think?
<nixternal> +1
<nixternal> haha, makes it a hell of a lot easier
<nixternal> I am on it batman
* LaserJock heads to the bat cave
<nixternal> OK, rebuilding right now
<nixternal> man, dreamhost is the garbage tonight
<nixternal> how long does it take to rm -rf blah/ which is empty?
<LaserJock> umm, not very long
<nixternal> heh, so one would think. My Dreamhost server is a tank tonight
<nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/docs/edubuntu/feisty
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3886 edubuntu/ (8 files in 2 dirs): cp gnome-menus-C.ent into edubuntu/libs in order to bypass a packaging issue, fixed handbook xml headers to match correct libs directory
<LaserJock> nixternal: hmm, that's looking good
<LaserJock> hmm, but I get a lot of errors when I install it and load yelp
<nixternal> really, what errors?
<LaserJock> /usr/share/gnome/help/edubuntu/handbook/C/bookinfo.xml:72: parser error : Entity 'educopy' not defined
<LaserJock> &educopy;
<LaserJock> ah heck
<LaserJock> it's from common/ not being in /usr/share/gnome/help/
<nixternal> argh
<LaserJock> stupid ents
<nixternal> ln -s?
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> that is one great thing about KDE and Kubuntu, our docs go to the same place, we follow suit/standard
<LaserJock> well, it really would be fine if we didn't install to edubuntu/
<LaserJock> we *could* install to edubuntu-$$doc
<nixternal> haha, so that means...reverting the last changes, which is nothing major
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but we are breaking everything right now
<nixternal> wow, so you would have edubuntu-about-edubuntu, edubuntu-releasenotes, edubuntu-handbook, edubuntu-SchoolAdvocacy
<LaserJock> not about edubuntu
<LaserJock> but the others
<LaserJock> I'm really only concerend about release notes and handbook
<LaserJock> they have such generic names
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> cp edubuntu/$$doc/C/*.xml debian/edubuntu-docs/usr/share/gnome/help/edubuntu/$$doc/C/
<nixternal> just replace the edubuntu/$$doc with edubuntu-$$doc
<nixternal> that is easy enough, and revert my changes
<LaserJock> I'd rather not do  ESA and About Edubuntu that way though
<LaserJock> can we just split it into 2 cp lines
<nixternal> well, I would break them out
<nixternal> exactly
<nixternal> let me do that really quick
<LaserJock> I think that's the way to go
<nixternal> actually, I don't have to revert my changes to the gnome-menus-C
<nixternal> it is just changing that out
<nixternal> argh
<LaserJock> now what?
<nixternal> typo :)
<LaserJock> gotta "get'r done"
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> she is done this time, getting ready to upload to the server again
<nixternal> argh this server is stupid
<nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/docs/edubuntu/feisty
<nixternal> that should be the one LaserJock :)  I will brb, takin' the puppy out
<LaserJock> are the omf files updated?
<nixternal> fdjklafjdlasjfdsja
* nixternal jumps off his chair
<LaserJock> libs are still installed to /usr/share/gnome/help/edubuntu/
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> that brings up a new can of worms
<LaserJock> if they are installed to /usr/share/gnome/help/libs/ that should work, right?
<nixternal> there is already gnome/help/libs/
<LaserJock> don't install ones that are already installed by ubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> but the edubuntu ones should be ok
<nixternal> roger
<nixternal> we can't
<nixternal> differen't css files
<nixternal> the silly ubuntu-docs dir is killing us. if it was just ubuntu, then it wouldn't be a problem
<nixternal> rather, if the package was installed the way the svn was setup
<LaserJock> wait a sec
<LaserJock> the ubuntu package works
<LaserJock> ours should be the same
<LaserJock> nixternal: still alive?
<LaserJock> nixternal: pingy pingy
<mdke_> LaserJock: the server installation includes an html viewer
<LaserJock> yeah, but there's not necessarily a link between the two
<LaserJock> you know what I mean?
<LaserJock> for the packaging guide I think I might add in a .desktop file or something
<mdke_> bdmurray: pot files are generated automatically, it's probably a bad idea to edit them directly
<LaserJock> for the server guide maybe a script that runs the html viewer with the right URL would help?
<mdke_> LaserJock: a script that runs it when?
<LaserJock> mdke_: just make like /usr/bin/serverguide
<LaserJock> so you could just run serverguide and it'd load it up
<mdke_> oh I see
<mdke_> nice idea, did you discuss it with fabbione?
<LaserJock> no, I poked him when he first came in but he said he needed to wake up and think about it ;-)
<mdke_> ask him about that
<mdke_> LaserJock: see mpt's patch? looks like he wants to move about-ubuntu into "new to ubuntu 7.04"
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<LaserJock> mdke_: nixternal and I are having a heck of a time with edubuntu-docs
<mdke_> really?
<LaserJock> the ents seem to not work out well when we install
<mdke_> do they work with ubuntu-docs?
<LaserJock> yeah, I think ubuntu-docs works out ok
<mdke_> so just install the ents in the same place :)
<LaserJock> but for some reason it seems like we either break svn or installed paths
<mdke_> so /usr/share/gnome/common and /usr/share/gnome/ubuntu are symbolic links to /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common|ubuntu
<mdke_> did you try that?
<mdke_> we should probably do the same with /usr/share/gnome/libs I guess
<LaserJock> hmm, let me have a look
<mdke_> morning mpt
<Madpilot> mdke_, noticed the vandalism on wuc/Home?
<mdke_> no, well spotted
<Madpilot> someone else fixed the damage, I just haunt RecentChanges
<Madpilot> actually, I've got wuc & huc/c's RecentChanges open in Opera, set to auto-refresh every 20min
<mdke_> Madpilot: :)
<Madpilot> the autorefresh means I don't have to subscribe to the whole of both wikis like some insane ppl do, but I can keep an eye on the whole thing while I'm surfing
<mpt> hi mdke_
<LaserJock> mdke_: do you know how to revert in svn?
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r3887 edubuntu/ (9 files in 6 dirs):
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Finished edubuntu-docs package:
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation:  * reverted 3886 and 3875
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation:  * updated changelog and copyright
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation:  * don't install to gnome/help/edubuntu
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation:  * made handbook and releasenotes install path non-generic
<LaserJock> badaboom!
<LaserJock> nixternal: edubuntu-docs uploaded
<Ubugtu> New bug: #88964 in ubuntu-doc "Typo in the Packaging Guide" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88964
<LaserJock> nixternal: you awake/around/available?
<mdke_> LaserJock: svn revert (--recursive) filename
<LaserJock> mdke_: yeah, it wasn't what I wanted
<mdke_> oh, merge?
<LaserJock> I wanted to "go back in time"
<LaserJock> bad terminology
<mdke_> yeah, merge
<mdke_> get it sorted?
<LaserJock> yeah
<mdke_> cool
<LaserJock> I actually manually did it since it wasn't much
<LaserJock> the merge  command I found in the SVN manual didn't work for some reason
<LaserJock> I think I might have been using it wrong, not sure
<mdke_> ah, I've only ever used it on quite simple changes
<LaserJock>  anyway, I got the edubuntu-docs package figure out, I hope
<LaserJock> I uploaded it to Universe and got the MIR in the queue
<mdke_> cool
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3888 generic/packagingguide/C/bugs.xml: typo, bug 88964
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 88964 in ubuntu-doc "Typo in the Packaging Guide" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88964
<LaserJock> oh thanks
<LaserJock> I was going to get to that
<mdke_> :)
<LaserJock> did fabbione ever decide what to do about the serverguide?
<nixternal> LaserJock: rock on!
<LaserJock> nixternal: :-)
<LaserJock> I uploaded it at 2:30 am
<nixternal> so you got it working ey?
<nixternal> ya, I seen that
<LaserJock> not exactly on the same day
<nixternal> I passed out on the couch
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> but close enough
<nixternal> good, so that means you will get all of the bug reports for it now :)
<LaserJock> nope
<nixternal> you packaged it :)
<LaserJock> it's in your name dude ;-)
<nixternal> no no no
* nixternal checks email
<nixternal> haha
<LaserJock> I just tweaked it a tad
<LaserJock> but you worked hard so I gave you the changelog entry
<nixternal> lovely :)
* nixternal repackages smb4k with Jordan Mantha in the changelog
<LaserJock> hmm
<nixternal> hehe, smb4k is so bad
<mdke> LaserJock: no, he didn't reply to me
<LaserJock> k
<h4writer> hi
<h4writer> I got a suggestion of mpt to make the navigation bar (back, forward, help topics) need to be icon only
<h4writer> But should it be better to make it possible to change it in gconf-editor?
<h4writer> and default ICON only?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #85724 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Absence of GUI Command-line Code Reference on Terminal Emulators" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85724
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3889 ubuntu/basic-commands/ (. C/ C/basic-commands.xml): importing from the wiki, with some tweaks and manual fixes, needs review
<mdke> if you can do a patch just to make it icon only, we'd definitely consider it I think
<h4writer> I just made it;-)
<mdke> cool
<mdke> got a screenshot?
<h4writer> will make one
<h4writer> it is on edgy, but that wont change the behaviour
<h4writer> (with gconf-editor changer;-))
<h4writer> http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/7946/screenshot2ue8.png
<h4writer> I've submitted the change of source to lists, so you can apply it yourself. It isn't working by me:-(
<mdke> how do you mean, it isn't working?
<h4writer> (I mean I can't build the newest package)
<h4writer> just thought I is dubious
<h4writer> The program is running;-)
<LaserJock> h4writer: where did you get the source from?
<h4writer> Now it is from bzr
<h4writer> but I can take it from apt-get source to
<mdke> you'll need to ensure that the patch works for feisty yelp for us to be able to consider it, I think
<h4writer> It won't change my code I've changed;-)
<h4writer> I mean, it will definitly work on feisty
<mdke> you should also try and produce a screenshot with that specific change only, rather than with your other customisations
<mdke> then we can run it past the yelp maintainer
<h4writer> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2007-March/008198.html
<h4writer> that's what I have changed
<h4writer> is it an option to give that to the yelp maintainer?
<h4writer> that's the customisation of the toolbar only;-)
<LaserJock> h4writer: you really need to get the Feisty yelp source going
<LaserJock> h4writer: what release are you using?
<mdke> yes, I think we can try that, but a patch on the feisty would be better
<h4writer> can you give https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2007-March/008196.html tot?
<h4writer> it is a patch for the arrows
<h4writer> in the find bar
<h4writer> and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2007-March/008195.html
<mdke> I don't really understand what is wrong with the arrows
<h4writer> will show my version
<h4writer> just had a firefox crash
<h4writer> so wait a minute
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3890 ubuntu/ (libs/gnome-menus-C.ent office/C/office.xml): gnucash menu entry as per #71632
<h4writer> http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/2305/screenshot3mt4.png
<h4writer> @mdke, here you see
<h4writer> I think it is logicaler
<h4writer> I'm going to sleep
<h4writer> so bye
<mdke> it looks the same as in feisty already
<mdke> (the arrows)
<h4writer> okey
<h4writer> np
<h4writer> :p
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3891 ubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml: bug 61714
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61714 in ubuntu-docs "BitTorrent sidebar entry is too large " [Low,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/61714
<mdke> gnight all
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-02
<AndrewB> Hey guys any1 about?
<Admiral_Chicago> i am, how can I help you
<AndrewB> hey Admiral_Chicago I added a wiki article about ajaxterm. I then sent it to a friend to try who is an ubuntu member. he has said it don't work cause it was written for 6.10. he was on 6.06. What would you guys think is my correct action? Add a guide for 6.06 or just leave as is...
<Admiral_Chicago> AndrewB: got a link
<AndrewB> a sec..
<AndrewB> Admiral_Chicago: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AjaxTerm
<Admiral_Chicago> AndrewB: readnig now
<AndrewB> It is just basically cause the package ajaxterm is not in the 6.06 repo Admiral_Chicago.
<Admiral_Chicago> AndrewB: its written well (from my skimming) and it will work. make sure to include that information in the introduction though
<AndrewB> Admiral_Chicago: so th right way IS to write for 6.10?
<Admiral_Chicago> AndrewB: I would say any amount of information / guides that in comprehensive and useful is "the right way"
<LaserJock> if AjaxTerm only can be found in 6.10 then I think it's fine
<LaserJock> i'd personally probably make a note at the top
<Admiral_Chicago> some technology (like upstart) works out of the box edgy. its good
<AndrewB> Ok thanks guys. I shall now go document more :)
<Admiral_Chicago> AndrewB: good luck
<AndrewB> I wrote one on qingy too. yet to try that on 6.06..
<AndrewB> Thanks for clearing that up LaserJock and Admiral_Chicago :)
<Admiral_Chicago> AndrewB: you're welcome
<Admiral_Chicago> thank you for writting documentation
<AndrewB> Do you mind if I add this channel to my auto-join list?
<LaserJock> heh, certainly not
<nixternal> boo
<Admiral_Chicago> hehe. is that your new way of saying hello nixternal ?
<nixternal> LaserJock: tell Admiral_Chicago where the "boo" comes from :)
<LaserJock> heh, that's quite old
<Admiral_Chicago> boo..radely?
<nixternal> ya, well over a year now with him
<nixternal> boo is bddebian's way of saying hello, and he always boo's me, and so I have somehow picked it up as my entrance annoucement here lately
<Admiral_Chicago> ahh I see
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3892 kubuntu/Makefile: updated kubuntu makefile
<mdke_> morning
<Madpilot> morning mdke_
<LaserJock> hi mdke_
<mdke_> Madpilot: did you see I imported the BasicCommands wiki page? Do you fancy proof reading it to check that everything applies equally to system docs?
<Madpilot> mdke_, I can - I'll have some time tomorrow, probably
<mdke_> cool :)
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3893 ubuntu/ (fix-urls.sh get-pot.sh translate.sh):
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: updating with basic-commands doc, removing fix-urls.sh, no longer needed
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: I hope
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3894 ubuntu/newtoubuntu/C/newtoubuntu.xml: reordering and rewording some links
<Ubugtu> New bug: #89156 in ubuntu-docs (main) "There is no mac-os-x.xml " [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89156
<AndrewB> How do I attach a screen shot?
<AndrewB> eg.. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/poedit   the screenie looks slightly amess comaired to other articles..
<AndrewB> got it..
<Laser_away> nixternal and mdke_ : edubuntu-docs MIR has been approved
<nixternal> woohoo!
<nixternal> good job Laser_away
<Laser_away> good job nixternal
<Laser_away> wouldn't have a package to MIR if you hadn't of worked so hard on getting the Handbook ready
<nixternal> now we just need to improve it :)
<gabe> aha! I made it to ubuntu-doc at last!!
<mdke_> welcome
<gabe> hi all
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-03
<gabe> :) thanks :)
<mdke_> long journey?
<gabe> mmm convoluted, I'd say
<gabe> had a little trouble with the old daily builds of feisty
<gabe> now, I was hoping that you would be able to give me a little direction. Actually, I wanted to get my mother involved in the documentation effort because she is great at proof reading things. Problem is: do I have to teach here how to use subversion?
<gabe> *teach her how to use*
<mdke_> no, certainly not
<gabe> that's a relief
<mdke_> our work in progress documentation is hosted at http://doc.ubuntu.com
<gabe> yes...
<mdke_> she can just read through and you can point her to the bug filing page, or she can email us
<gabe> I was just going to say that I'd followed all kinds of links from there
<gabe> thing is, I really think should could make some useful contribution, but getting her to use subversion would be something of a nightmare
<gabe> OK, I see
<gabe> just to make it crystal clear: I get her to read the documentation at doc.ubuntu.com, particularly  the stuff on the right-hand side
<gabe> and when she finds things she thinks need correcting she should...?
<mdke_> file a bug or email our mailing list
<mdke_> preferably the former, but the latter if the former is too difficult
<gabe> ok, and could you give me the address for bug reporting, please
<mdke_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc/+bugs
<gabe> aha, thank you
<gabe> just one last thing
<gabe> what kind of things do you want reported exactly?   I did get my mum to read some pages of this and she pointed out several punction errors. Such as improper use of ":" and ";" etc. Do you care about these, or should she ignore them?
<LaserJock> I think those are nice, I personally want stuff to be as polished as possible
<LaserJock> but it's nice to sort of so more than one at a time
<LaserJock> *do
<mdke_> yes, any errors
<gabe> LaserJock: you mean report multiple errors in a single bug report?
<mdke_> however, be aware that there are lots of different rules for punctuation
<mdke_> what is wrong in British English is not necessarily wrong in American English, and vice versa
<gabe> mmmm
<gabe> mdke_: and which does Ubuntu Doc favour?
<mdke_> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/styleguide/en/styleguide-grammar.html
<gabe> :)
<mdke_> american
<LaserJock> \o/
<mdke_> there are probably lots of failures to comply with our guide though, so pointing those out will be helpful
<LaserJock> mdke_: ok, so I believe with the current setup, no docs from edubuntu-docs show up in the Yelp frontpage
<LaserJock> mdke_: if you do a search they show up pretty well
<mdke_> yes, that's right
<LaserJock> now, how is that frontpage determined? is there code involved?
<mdke_> yes, it's currently hardcoded
<LaserJock> I was wondering if you could do some sort of "if edubuntu-docs; then ...."
<mdke_> my idea would be to determine the list according to what is installed in scrollkeeper
<mdke_> but Don has not yet got back to me
<LaserJock> hardcoded in the yelp source?
<mdke_> yes, in Yelp
<LaserJock> well, it looks pretty decent as is though
<LaserJock> before they were all jumbled together
<mdke_> I have the following plan
<mdke_> (a) wait for Don to get back, chase him more
<mdke_> (b) try and do it myself, see how it goes
<mdke_> (c) resign to defeat but think, "hey, it's still better than Edgy"
<mdke_> worst case scenario isn't that bad, but hopefully we can do (a) or (b)
<LaserJock> well, I think (c) isn't tragic, so that's cool
<mdke_> we'll see. (c) would mean doing it without fail in the next release
<LaserJock> is it toc.xml?
<gabe> could I just ask, what is the easiest way to write docbook? Is there a WSYIWYG editor, or do most ppl just use something like gedit?
<mdke_> toc.xml.in, among other files
<mdke_> gabe: there isn't a very good wysiwyg editor
<mdke_> I use gedit myself
<mdke_> I'm off to bed
<LaserJock> cya mdke_
<gabe> g'night
<gabe> LaserJock: do you know if it's hard to get going with subversion?
<LaserJock> gabe: I found it pretty easy myself
<LaserJock> gabe: our usage is very basic
<LaserJock> for subversion
<gabe> ah did you follow some instructions for it?
<LaserJock> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh
<LaserJock> doh, that's wrong
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<LaserJock> gabe: that one ^^
<gabe> ok, thanks, I'm looking at it now
<gabe> ahh yes, very informative
<gabe> I was wondering, I would like to contribute to Ubuntu myself. I am useless at programming, but good with writing. Do you know if there is some documentation I could help to write?
<LaserJock> there's always lots of things
<LaserJock> the help wiki is a good place to get started
<LaserJock> help.ubuntu.com/community/
<gabe> mmmm
<gabe> I don't quite understand something
<gabe> if I can use svn to get the documentation then I can alter it. How does that then get processed in to the proper documentation?
<LaserJock> well, you send a patch (you get that from svn diff) and we'll apply it to the repo
<gabe> ahh this sounds good
<LaserJock> then it gets periodically built into the ubuntu-docs package
<gabe> does one submit a patch using svn?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> you create the patch via svn then send it to the mailing list
<gabe> and the patch would be an entire xml document?
<LaserJock> once you've shown you know what you're doing and want to continue working with the team you can get svn write access
<gabe> LaserJock: sounds good
<LaserJock> gabe: it looks something like https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc-commits/2007-March/003409.html
<gabe> LaserJock: does the project need any help in translating to Chinese, as I may be able to assist with that also?
<LaserJock> there is always a need for translation
<LaserJock> translation in Ubuntu is done via Rosetta on Launchpad
<gabe> ok
<gabe> something else for me to look in to
<gabe> but I'm beginning to see the bigger picture with this svn stuff etc
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3895 kubuntu/hardware/C/hardware.xml: kubuntu hardware section complete - ready for review
<LaserJock> the svn is just for docs shipped on the CD
<LaserJock> the doc team also has the help wiki with loads more stuff
<gabe> i see
<gabe> and how is the wiki updated and changed? Does that need special write permission also?
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> in fact, anybody with a Launchpad account can edit it
<gabe> ahhh
<gabe> this might be a perfect way to start my mum off
<gabe> it means she can read an entire document and make necessary improvements herself
<LaserJock> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+translations
<gabe> and it has a kind of built-in WSIWYG
<gabe> i don't quite understand...
<gabe> the translations on rosetta are translations of just one or two words, perhaps just one sentence - is that right?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> it's broken up into thousands of chuncks
<gabe> yes
<LaserJock> *chunks
<gabe> but surely that would give poor translations
<gabe> it loses context
<LaserJock> gabe: that can be a problem yes
<gabe> mmm
<LaserJock> I honestly don't know anything about the translations
<LaserJock> I'm just a poor unilingual American
<gabe> LaserJock: that's ok :)
<gabe> but do you know how I find a translation that needs doing? All that I look at already have translations
<LaserJock> I think you have to look at the status bars
<gabe> ahh umm
<gabe> purple means...
<gabe> green means...
<LaserJock> I think there is a #ubuntu-translators channel
<LaserJock> they would probably know
<LaserJock> I'm just clueless
<gabe> aha thanks a lot anyway
<gabe> you've helped me so much
<LaserJock> no problem
<LaserJock> thanks for dropping by
<LaserJock> and tell your mum we look forward to seeing her work ;-)
<gabe> hehe I will!
<gabe> do you also think it's best if she starts with the wiki?
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> the only thing is the wiki is more dynamic
<LaserJock> so she might make some minor changes and then have the blown away when somebody changes it around
<LaserJock> so for proofreading, in general I think it's better to go with the svn docs
<gabe> oh i see
<gabe> LaserJock: is there some instructions on how to send patches to the mail list?
<LaserJock> gabe: it should be on that wiki page I gave you  DocumentationTeam/Repository
<gabe> right
<gabe> ok
<gabe> thanks a lot
<gabe> looking forward to getting started
<gabe> only thing is I must learn it all myself first so I can teach ol' ma :)
<LaserJock> :-)
<nixternal> big transfer
<nixternal> I hope CIA doesn't list everyone
<LaserJock> muwahahaha
<Admiral_Chicago> richard, got time for a question?
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> ;p
<nixternal> what is it
<Admiral_Chicago> okay, so I want to get emails about the changes to any MozillaTeam pages. How can I subscribe that way on the wiki page
<nixternal> Transmitting file data .......................................................................
<nixternal> you know it is a biggen if it is doing that :)
<Admiral_Chicago> I tried MozillaTeam* but that doesn't do it.
<nixternal> I think you go to your personal settings on the wiki
<nixternal> and then do MozillaTeam/.*
<Admiral_Chicago> ah /.*
<Admiral_Chicago> okay
<nixternal> learn your regex
<Admiral_Chicago> regex?
<nixternal> #@)*#@
<LaserJock> works for shells, should work for wiki pages
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: regular expression
<Admiral_Chicago> yea, thats why I tried the *
<nixternal> sed -e 's/.*: //'
<nixternal> oh man, I don't think this is going to be good
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3896 kubuntu/ (259 files in 3 dirs): cleaning up images (old) and adding k3b.png
<nixternal> whew
<nixternal> just a lil line, thank goodness
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: i know what regular expressions are, not the portmanteau
<nixternal> regex == regular expressions
<Admiral_Chicago> to be fair, I have been working on getting my *nix skills up (why do RPGs come to mind...)
<Admiral_Chicago> i've been trying to level up my *nix ability.
<nixternal> I have been trying for years
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3897 kubuntu/ (libs/kde-menus-C.ent musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml): multimedia doc complete - ready for review - added new menu entries
<nixternal> getting close now
<LaserJock> wahoo
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3898 kubuntu/about-kubuntu/C/about-kubuntu.xml: fixed for validation
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3899 kubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: added sect ids
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3900 kubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: added caption to image
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3901 kubuntu/ (libs/kde-menus-C.ent office/C/office.xml): office section complete - ready for review - added new menu items
<nixternal> and another one bites the dust
<nixternal> LaserJock: it is starting to look like I may have some Handbook time left in me before the week is through :)
<Admiral_Chicago> system settings should be done for Kubuntu (mostly)
<Admiral_Chicago> i just emailed what I had to ^^
<Admiral_Chicago> rock. see ya all later
<nixternal> rock on
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: where is the general settings section?
* nixternal spots the rooms for proofreaders
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: i sent that to you a while ago
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: i sent it all in small bits. i'll send a batch again
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: sent againt
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3902 kubuntu/hardware/C/hardware.xml: removed nvidia and ati binary info - replaced with links - to dangerous to document in system docs
<mdke_> Admiral_Chicago: if you are doing some doc patches, feel free to send them to the list - that way we can see your work and get to know what you are doing
<mdke_> anyone know anything about compiz?
<mdke_> nixternal: how about just deleting the unused images? we have them in the branches for previous releases if you want to find them again
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3903 /trunk/ (8 files in 6 dirs): adding a document about compiz, needs material
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3904 /trunk/ (21 files in 21 dirs): refreshing pot templates
<Admiral_Chicago> mdke: what do you need about compiz
<Admiral_Chicago> and my doc work isn't anything major, but i'll keep that in mind
<mdke> Admiral_Chicago: see the mailing list
<mdke> gtg now
<nixternal> mdke: lol, I was thinking about that last night laying in bed. the unused dir that is. I am going to do it today
<nixternal> hiya jjesse
<jjesse> hiya
<jjesse> finally got a temp replacement computer from work
<jjesse> need to do some serious doc work this weekend :(
<nixternal> you are still working on the bood ey?
<nixternal> I am doing serious doc work as well today and tomorrow as well
<jjesse> yeah still working on teh book due to the fact my laptop was down all week while i was in utah
<jjesse> i was working on reading some of the current docs
<Admiral_Chicago> why are you thinking about doc work while lying in bed?
* Admiral_Chicago think richard needs a new hobby :)
<nixternal> yes I think I might
<nixternal> my new hobby will be a help system for KDE4
<jjesse> maybe you need a hobby that is !ubuntu :)
<jjesse> like a life
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> see, it goes Life (fam, friends, and school), Linux, KDE, Kubuntu......
<nixternal> it all ties in perfectly
<nixternal> heh, mdke I am going to borrow your basic-commands
<Laser_away> jjesse: nixternal have a life?!? surely you are joking ;-)
<somerville32> mdke: Did you get my e-mail? :)
<LaserJock> hi somerville32
<somerville32> Hi LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> somerville32: how are you?
<somerville32> I'm doing alright.
<somerville32> Still in the hospital, I'm afraid
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> how long have you been there?
<somerville32> A month
<LaserJock> yikes!
<LaserJock> sounds serious :(
<somerville32> hopefully they'll let me out soon :)
<nixternal> LaserJock: watch it now ;p
<LaserJock> :-)
<nixternal> hiya somerville32!
<somerville32> Hiya nixternal
<nixternal> a month in the hospital!! jeesh, everything OK?
<nixternal> heh, and you are on IRC
<nixternal> dude, when my mom was just in the hospital, we couldn't even have our cell phones on
<somerville32> nixternal: They gave me a little office to work in, haha
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> that is sad
<somerville32> : )
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3905 kubuntu/ (6 files in 6 dirs): spring cleaning
<somerville32> :)
<LaserJock> argg, the always looming String Freeze
<LaserJock> somehow I always think of String Theory
<LaserJock> maybe Ubuntu documentation is some singularity that's cause a black hole
<LaserJock> *causing
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> 5 days until freeze
<somerville32> Wee :)
<somerville32> lo mdke_
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3906 kubuntu/printing/C/printing.xml: link fixing - thanks Phil
<jjesse> nixternal: awesome job on all of the updates that i'm seeing on kubuntu docs
<nixternal> why thank you
<nixternal> they haven't been easy
<jjesse> i now have 62 screenshots for the book to take today :(
<nixternal> some have been, but some haven't
<jjesse> downloading herd5 as we speak
<nixternal> fun
<jjesse> your work has been a great help for working on the book
<nixternal> it took me 3+ hours yesterday to download herd5
<jjesse> d'oh
<nixternal> 50+k the entire time
<jjesse> yeah i'm at 65k/sec
<jjesse> time to go get wife up from her nap :)
<jjesse> brb
<nixternal> hehe, I need to start a load of laundry
<jjesse> i'm doing the laundry that i took to salt lake so i can pack it all back up for 3 weeks in columbus ohio
<nixternal> sounds like fun
<jjesse> what's not ffun is the drive home and back i'll be making every weekend
<nixternal> oh ya, it is a good 6 hour drive for me I think
<jjesse> little under 5 for me
<jjesse> i'm doing it so i can see my wife isntead of missing her for 3 weeks
<nixternal> awwww
* nixternal hears the crack of the oh so familiar sounding whip
<Admiral_Chicago> lol
<jjesse> no whip cracking
<nixternal> jjesse: that's what we always say, but we know the truth
<jjesse> comming home cause i want to
<jjesse> no seriously try living in a hotel for 3 weeks straight
<nixternal> there was a guy in #kubuntu last night from GR
<jjesse> yeah?
<nixternal> jjesse: I did, for just over a month, I hated it
<jjesse> that's why i'm comming home
<jjesse> in march and april i have 40 days of hotel book
<nixternal> oh wow, that is something I do not miss
<jjesse> puts me up to gold in marriot point status
<nixternal> lol
<jjesse> oooo michigan is still beating ohio state
<nixternal> my points are pretty much gone now
<jjesse> i'm pushing 75k
<jjesse> in under a year
<nixternal> I bought a snow blower, cobra golf clubs, 3 iPods, and a digital camera with mine
<jjesse> nice
<nixternal> holy smokes that is a lot for 1 year
<nixternal> someone stole the snowblower
<nixternal> lol
* Admiral_Chicago hides
<jjesse> bummer on that
<nixternal> dude, I blew snow, came in for a warm up, went out and it was gone
<Admiral_Chicago> hahaha
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: prolly was your people ;)
<nixternal> hahahahaha
<Admiral_Chicago> thats why I hide
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> your brother would be screaming racist
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> laundry is calling
<nixternal> back in a few
<Admiral_Chicago> speaking of which, I'm going to find him
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-04
<cypherbios> Hi folks. Someone here knows how is extracted the strings from xml/docbook files of the documentation to an .pot file for translation, using gettext?
<LaserJock> we use xmltopo
<LaserJock> or xml2pot I think actually
<cypherbios> LaserJock: humm, thank you. I'll take a look at both
<LaserJock> xml2po -e -p
<cypherbios> LaserJock: it worked. I've extracted some .pot files from xml using xml2pot original.xml > messages.pot. Thank you
#ubuntu-doc 2008-02-25
<eddieftw> hey jjesse
<jjesse> hello eddieftw
<eddieftw> jjesse: i made membership :P
<jjesse> eddieftw: congrats :)
<eddieftw> thanks.
<eddieftw> now i need to do some work with docs...
<eddieftw> now that the freeze is over
<jjesse> good luck
<ubotu> New bug: #195590 in ubuntu-docs (main) "home page has blurry font" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195590
<visualdeception> ok so I am looking through some of the current bugs to do some triaging. and I see bug #185962 {https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/185962}
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 185962 in ubuntu-docs ""The partition" is unspecified" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185962
<visualdeception> but I'm not really sure where to go from here, just add a comment that more information is needed?? or just assign it to the documentation team??
<visualdeception> or maybe the bugs i'm just over my head *shrugs*
#ubuntu-doc 2008-02-26
<a8514> ubuntu-doc-es
<dencrypt> Can I get some pointers here on my first wiki-edit?
<sommer> sure
<sommer> dencrypt: do you have a specific question?
<dencrypt> no not really
<dencrypt> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firefox3AMD64Java
<dencrypt> just wanna make sure I have done everything right. First time evour I even touch a wiki.
<dencrypt> Pointers are welcome to :)
<sommer> dencrypt: looks okay to me
<sommer> very straight and to the point... heh
<sommer> you might take a look at this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AMD64/FirefoxAndPlugins
<sommer> for other layout ideas
<sommer> the cool thing is that it's a wiki so it's easy to change :-)
<dencrypt> Yeah, I wanted to make it more informative but I am fresh out of ideas. I will check that out,
<dencrypt> Sat 1Â½ day with solving that problem and compiling so I'm a little tired too :)
<dencrypt> Should I make it as wide as I can? Like getting stuff likeh installing firefox3 etc too?
<sommer> apalogies was afk for a while.
<sommer> installation may not be a bad idea, you should probably check for another firefox3 page and see if your instructions could fit within it
<sommer> if so you can always edit that page
<dencrypt> no worries. This is iRC :)
<dencrypt> well I thought of that but this is very experimental and done on alpha hardy and on beta firefox. Might not be representative in a big article.
<sommer> ah, still may make for a good beginning firefox3 page that can then be updated whenever hardy is released... but either way works
<dencrypt> there isnÃ¤t a firefox3 page. maybe I should write one then. That could actually be interesting.
<dencrypt> isn't
<dencrypt> Can I post the results here? Might take a day or two?
<dencrypt> for evaluation :)
<dencrypt> or something. Allways good with a second oppinion.
<sommer> dencrypt: sure, a firefox3 page sounds really good to me
<dencrypt> Don't expekt too much though. ;)
<ubotu> New bug: #195882 in ubuntu-docs (main) "/usr/share/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu/sample/sources.list" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195882
<dencrypt> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firefox3#preview
<dencrypt> it's a start isn't it :)
<sommer> dencrypt: looks good
<ubotu> New bug: #195879 in ubuntu-docs (main) "/usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195879
#ubuntu-doc 2008-02-27
<jjesse> to push changes to the branch, is that bzr push? or bzr commit?
<kgoetz> push
<jjesse> thanks kgoetz
<jjesse> my first commit in a long time
<jjesse> hrm won't let me commit the changes that i made
<jjesse> bzr status still shows the file is modiefied
<jjesse> but bzr push shows now newrevisions
<jjesse> oh well heading to bed
<kgoetz> jjesse: you need to commit the change into your branch, then push it
<kgoetz> (soryr for lag)
<achandrashekar> hello. I have some suggestions and issues with the edubuntu guides wiki for ltsp setup in infrastructure mode. Some of which caused a system hangup. Is someone around to listen to the core issue and perhaps make the according changes to the guides?
<achandrashekar> the issue lies with the use of a recommended scripted setup for smb-ldap that no longer pertains to 7.10 installs
<achandrashekar> anyone there to field my concern?
<dencrypt> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firefox3#preview
<dencrypt> If anyone wanna write the 32bit part your welcome. I don't have 32bit system.
<mdke> jjesse: if you use "bzr bind" to bind your branch to the one on Launchpad, then all you will need to do is to use bzr commit and it will commit directly to Launchpad
<mdke> dencrypt: looks like a helpful page, thanks. Feel free to post to the mailing list to encourage someone else to contribute the 32 bit section
<dencrypt> Any specific rules regarding the mailinglist?
<mdke> dencrypt: not really. Have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact
<dencrypt> hehe. Too late ;)
<dencrypt> made a post.
<dencrypt> :)
<mdke> that's fine, there aren't any rules there anyway
#ubuntu-doc 2008-02-28
<robotgeek> nixternal: is there a task list for kubuntu tasks?
<jjesse> robotgeek: working on verifying all the docs are accurate for kde4
<robotgeek> jjesse: i'm downloading alpha5 as we speak, should be in a vm shortly.
<jjesse> robotgeek: cool i'm slowly working through the docs right now but wouldn't mind an extra eye on things
<kgoetz> Kamping_Kaiser:
<robotgeek> jjesse: just tell me which ones you are working on, and i will look elsewhere
<robotgeek> kgoetz: hello :)
<jjesse> robotgeek: the entities kde-menus-c.ent needs to be verified for application launcher settings
<kgoetz> robotgeek: hey mate :)
<robotgeek> jjesse: okay, i will ping you or email the list when i run through those
<jjesse> cool thanks
<jjesse> robotgeek: thats under kubuntu-hardy/kubuntu-kde4/libs/kde-menu-C.ent
<robotgeek> jjesse: thanks, pulling in from bzr
<jjesse> robotgeek: no problem thanks for helping out :)
<robotgeek> my pleasure
<robotgeek> nixternal: why does bzr diff kde-menu-C.ent not show only my changes?
<nixternal> there are other changes somewhere...probably because jjesse upload a change recently?
<robotgeek> nixternal: bzr status shows pending merges (including jjesse's stuff)
<robotgeek> damn bzr noobs!
<nixternal> pull in his changes and give it a shot...I am actually a bzr dummy
<nixternal> hahahaha
<robotgeek> i did a checkout from mde's initial upload, the did a bzr merge with the kubuntu-hardy url
<nixternal> hrmm, I just checked out the Kubuntu stuff
<nixternal> didn't feel like having a ton of docs all over my machine
<robotgeek> I followed what was mentioned in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository under advanced
<robotgeek> lemme retry the steps
<nixternal> ya, when it comes to merging and what not, I am definitely lost with bzr
<robotgeek> when all else fails, scratch and redo
 * kgoetz should update his docs checkout
<nixternal> hehe
<kgoetz> is it far to string freeze?
<kgoetz> afk. heading home
<kgoetz> via the hut :\
<kgoetz> probably pick up there too
<nixternal> kgoetz: 1 month
<robotgeek> finally got everything checked out, lol
<robotgeek> now, i can begin working. i will correct the Repository page tomorrow
<robotgeek> night
<dencrypt> morning
#ubuntu-doc 2008-02-29
<ubotu> New bug: #196835 in ubuntu-doc "broken links" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196835
<robotgeek> updated this page with information about ssh keys, and the "correct" way to update to a working bzr install in Advanced Methods
<robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<robotgeek> nixternal: updated kde-menus-C.ent file
<nixternal> groovy, were there a lot of updates for it?
<robotgeek> just 2
<nixternal> wow, then jjesse did a good job with that, because he changed everyone of them
<nixternal> and I know there were a lot of them
<robotgeek> yup, he got to them before i did. he did a good job
<j1mc> go jjesse
<nixternal> finally, vbox on hardy amd64
<robotgeek> nixternal: how else can i help?
<nixternal> umm, I really don't know yet..I haven't had a chance to really look at the docs...you could go through and see if there needs to be anything added or removed...maybe pick one document and then get it all setup for kde4
<nixternal> that's what I was thinking of doing..just grab one of the documents and see what pertains to KDE 4, change stuff, add stuff, remove stuff and so on
<robotgeek> nixternal: okay. will do, as soon as i get the live cd downloaded
<nixternal> good deal
<j1mc> nixternal: all my docs validate now.  now i need to make them less crappy.
<j1mc> s/my/our
<nixternal> hehe, that is the easy part
<j1mc> the less crappy, or the validate?
<nixternal> the less crappy
<j1mc> heh.
<nixternal> you did the hard part
<j1mc> :)
<mdke> morning all
<dencrypt> morning
<nixternal> morning mdke, long time no see :)
<mdke> nixternal: hi, how's it going?
<nixternal> not to shabby, how about yourself?
<mdke> very well thanks
<dencrypt> give me something to do.
<dencrypt> :)
<sommer> run around the block
<sommer> :-)
<sommer> dencrypt: any interest in server?
<dencrypt> I run a 7.10 server
<dencrypt> in my clauset :)
<sommer> cool, one thing that needs doing before String Freeze is to read through the Server Guide and make sure all the commands work
<sommer> basically double check that the package names and path names are correct
<sommer> for instance I believe the current PostgreSQL section lists version 8.2 and 8.3 is released with hardy
<sommer> small things like that are a great way to get started
<mdke> there are a few bugs open on the server guide still which can be fixed too
<sommer> mdke: what's happenin
<mdke> hmm?
<sommer> just saying hi
<mdke> ah, hi
<dencrypt> I will take a look and see if it's something I can manage. :)
<dencrypt> Any links to those bugs? launchpad?
<mdke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs
<mdke> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc
<mdke> whoops, remove "edge" from that last one, if you don't use it
<mdke> have a sift through the two lists on those pages and see if you find something you like
<dencrypt> confirmed. :) Perfect. A project without time-pressure. wooo :D
<dencrypt> Gotta get to sleep now. cya.
<mdke> night
<mdke> on the time pressures, our string freeze is on 20 March, so there are some :)
<dencrypt> well, I only work 80% sÃ¥ I have plenty time.
<dencrypt> :)
<sommer> mdke: on the generic/server question, that I totally messed up, I'm all for maintaining the one directory
<sommer> until you brought it up I thought they were the same :-)
<mdke> sommer: ok, thanks
<mdke> sommer: one more question for you since you're here
<sommer> sure
<mdke> there appears to be a stray directory in generic/server/c (as opposed to "C")
<mdke> i didn't want to delete it since there is some content in there (mail.xml)
<mdke> any ideas what that is?
<sommer> ya, I believe that was a mistake by jjesse... made because I asked him to review the new section
<sommer> it was right after I was given commit access
<sommer> I can clean that up if you want
<mdke> can it be safely deleted or is there material there which isn't also in C/mail.xml?
<sommer> yep, it can be removed... the content should actually be older than C/
<mdke> i'll do that
<sommer> cool, thanks
<mdke> sommer: is the question of how/whether the serverguide will be included in the server edition going to be resolved soon?
<sommer> mdke: heh... I'm not entirely sure
<sommer> I'd say not at this point
<sommer> I asked at the last server meeting about the motd bug, and since FF is past that one probably won't be solved
<sommer> at least for Hardy
<sommer> and the serverguide install question, I think has been postponed as well
<mdke> sommer: geez
<sommer> my take is that the amount of work at this point out weighs the importance of installing it by default
<sommer> since it's already on the CD, just not installed
<mdke> no one will install it if it isn't brought to their attention
<mdke> it should clearly be installed by default... I find it astonishing that it isn't
<mdke> oh well
<sommer> for me as long as the content is availabe some how, I'm satisfied
<sommer> but I look at the net first ;-)
<mdke> that's only half the battle though; you need people to be aware of the existence of the content in order to be able to look at it
<mdke> the net is all well and good, but people might not realise there is a comprehensive guide to their server system there either
<mdke> I would have thought it's trivial to add something to a default server motd
<sommer> sure, but I think the google page rank bug will help that
<sommer> heh... me too, but I think if we should have added it a while back
<mdke> not completely; people will still need to know that the guide exists in order to google it
<mdke> otherwise they will just google what they need (like "apache Ubuntu"
<sommer> that's exaclty how I do it, usually "ubuntu apache" though
<sommer> if the first link when they do that is the official docs we'll be home free
<mdke> I have some doubt about that
<sommer> if it's possible?
<sommer> that's my question anyway
<mdke> well yes, because searches like that don't necessarily only turn up documentation
<sommer> ya, I'm hoping for the first link though
<sommer> or the first link for "hardy apache"
<sommer> but I see where you're coming from... I'll bring up the motd bug again at the next meeting
<mdke> hrm. It would be so easy just to install the package by default
<mdke> and the motd, as you say
<sommer> I think that's the issue though, it's not easy?
<mdke> bah
<mdke> people can do anything with technology
<sommer> hehheheh
<sommer> true
<mdke> installing a package by default on the server edition just seems so trivial
<sommer> I don't think I know enought about how the ISOs are created
<mdke> well,you said before that it's already on the cd, so that isn't the issue
<mdke> it just needs to be installed
<mdke> not that there is any point to having it on the cd if it doesn't get installed
<sommer> I think it's more the seed thing... from what I understand server uses the same seed as desktop and tasksel to install additional packages
<sommer> if you don't have a network connection you'd need to rely on the CD for additional packages :-)
<mdke> a server without a network connection?
<mdke> pretty rare I would have thought
<sommer> or aren't allowed a network connection...
<sommer> internet connection rather, heh
<mdke> even that must be immensely rare
<mdke> anyway, past my bedtime
<mdke> goodnight
<sommer> later on, have a good one
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-01
<kgoetz> how can i find out if i'm using a shared repository for my bzr checkouts?
<j1mc> kgoetz: i'm not sure i understand your question.
<kgoetz> j1mc: j1mc https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository#head-7349bc14cd12ae1087537a239427a70a4d73295d talks about setting up a shared repository for checkout histories. i'm wondering if theres a way i can check my 3 docs checkouts (edu/kubuntu/ubuntu) are shared or not
<j1mc> ah, ok.  good question.
<j1mc> i'm not sure i can answer it... maybe ask in #bzr?
<kgoetz> might do that. thanks anyhow :)
<j1mc> ok.  :)  sorry i can't be of more help.  i'm kind of new to this stuff myself.
<kgoetz> no worries.
<kgoetz> j1mc: and other docers who are interested: http://pastebin.ca/924202
<j1mc> kgoetz: interesting
<j1mc> i wonder how we'd change to the new default pack format.
<kgoetz> j1mc: theres usually a conversion command. i'm more wondering about all the different versions of bzr being used by different docteam peoples
<kgoetz> is there an explaination of the docs checkout structures anyware? i havent managed to find anything on the wiki.
<j1mc> checkout structures?
<kgoetz> yeah. eg i check out edubuntu-hardy docs, and theres a dozen files/directories in that checkout (with extra stuff in the directories).
<kgoetz> what do i need to edit? whats relevent to editing?
<kgoetz> if its only the 'edubuntu' directory, why are all the others in the checkout? :|
<j1mc> kgoetz: some of them are library folders.  the libs folder is worth checking out.
<j1mc> (looking at...)  :)
 * kgoetz thinks there should really be a README in the docroot explaining what the dirs are, and how their relevent :|
 * kgoetz wonders if its worth a bug report
<j1mc> yeah, it has taken me a while to figure out.
<j1mc> i think it would be helpful.  :)
<j1mc> particularly for new users.
<kgoetz> j1mc: i've got a job for you ;)
<j1mc> heh
 * kgoetz hasnt done ubuntu doco for ages. things seem to have changed
<j1mc> i really only work on xubuntu docs
<j1mc> or "primarily" anyway
 * kgoetz is interested in helping with the pre-freeze cleanup
<j1mc> cool.  :)
<kgoetz> :)
<j1mc> in that case, i would only look at the folders under the ubuntu-hardy/ubuntu folders
<j1mc> i wouldn't worry so much about the other folders within the root of the ubuntu-doc folder
<kgoetz> j1mc: fyi from our converation before: 15:16 < beuno> kgoetz, http://beuno.com.ar/archives/48  (instructions to upgrade your branches)
 * kgoetz sees lots of stuff in the /ubuntu/ dir
<j1mc> good idea about the bzr stuff, kgoetz.  you should write the ubuntu-doc list about that suggested upgrade to bzr.
<j1mc> given that our string freeze is only three weeks away, it might be better to upgrade after this release cycle, though.
<kgoetz> sure :)
<j1mc> kgoetz: maybe there are some bugs listed for ubuntu docs on launchpad?
 * kgoetz afk for lunch
<j1mc> lunch?  hehe.  it's 11pm here.
<kgoetz> j1mc: good to chat with you, hope your still here when i get back :)
<kgoetz> its 3pm here
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> ok.  have a good snack.
<kgoetz> catch you then
<kgoetz> hm. j1mc's headed off
<kgoetz> whats an 'omf' file? is it something i need to worry about?
<kgoetz> robotgeek: ping? can you tell me how your vim spellchecking worked? the one that understood xml :)
<mdke> kgoetz: no need to worry about omf files
<kgoetz> mdke: ok, i'll ignore them
<l3on> Hi all... someone know how I can contact some web admins of http://ubuntu.com ?
<l3on> mdke: are you there?
<mdke> l3on: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<jpatrick> l3on: #canonical-sysadmin
<l3on> jpatrick: I would info about ubuntu.com template... ;)
<jpatrick> l3on: ah, you want the drupal theme?
<l3on> I want know if for Hardy release is there some changes in programm to apply on web template...
<jpatrick> l3on: this was discussed on a mailing list
<l3on> Try to explain better: I would like to have information for the issue of resistance there will be changes to the style of ubuntu.com
<l3on> jpatrick: can you link me ?
<jpatrick> l3on: I'm searching for it
<l3on> tnx :)
<jpatrick> l3on: found it! https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2008-February/002030.html
<l3on> Reading it :)
<l3on> Thanks.. it's what I'm searching :)
<zero-9376> i have just installed python-imaging-doc, how can i get the docs into devhelp?
<zero-9376> i also installed the html package
<Okef> sup
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-02
<AtomicSpark> hey i found a mistake in the ubuntu server guide. should i report it here or where?
<ubotu> New bug: #197557 in ubuntu-doc "Wrong Package for Server Guide: NTP" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197557
<ubotu> New bug: #49435 in ubuntu-doc "Server Guide, Firewall: Where to put firewall script?" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49435
<visualdeception> nixternal, are you still interested in helping ubuntu-classroom?it is being revived
<nixternal> visualdeception: maybe once it is up and running...for the past 2 years it was being revived and when I got involved, nothing happened further
<visualdeception> ok, just wondered as we are having a meeting right now
<nixternal> I will hop in..where is the meeting?
<visualdeception> gobby
<visualdeception> #ubuntu-classroom
<AtomicSpark> hey how come you guys didn't have pdf versions for the 7.10 documentation?
<AtomicSpark> or 7.04.
<jjesse> cause no one made them?
<jjesse> not quiete sure, contact the mailing list ot ask i'm sure somoen will know
<robotgeek> hmm, i am not sure, i think they had difficulties with stuff breaking which prevented pdf's, me thinks
<AtomicSpark> yeah. hard to keep pdf's up-to-date.
<jjesse> in regards to the pdfs i think its because of the switch to topic based help that doesn't allow for printing of pdfs
<kgoetz> iirc their done manually
<posingaspopular> hey there jenda :P
<posingaspopular> and jjesse
<posingaspopular> long time no hi
<jjesse> dang missed im
<kgoetz> not by far eitehr
<jjesse> yup not by much
#ubuntu-doc 2009-02-25
<toxygen> hi
<toxygen> on page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ you are referring to image which is missing
<toxygen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/htdocs/ubuntu/img/attach.png
<toxygen> third picture from the left in the middle of page (between globe and book)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-02-26
<dsas> Is there a good way to refer someone to the server guide?
<dsas> I want to tell people how to install and start subversion in programming.xml but tell them to look in the server guide for instructions on how to setup a server.
<dsas> actually I'm not 100% sure thats useful.
<dsas> if someone doesn't know they need a server for subversion then it may be better that they just use bzr
#ubuntu-doc 2009-02-27
<Riddell> anyone know about adding images to the wiki?  #kubuntu-devel count do with some help
<cumulus007> Since Ubuntu attempts to get in touch with as much people as possible, I think there should be a possibility to translate release announcements of Ubuntu releases to a local language
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-01
<myrtlebeachbums> Hey folks. I'm a fairly recent Ubuntu member from my work on Ubuntu Weekly News, and one of the things that came up in my membership review was possibly joining Ubuntu Docs.
<myrtlebeachbums> From what I just read, it looks like there's no formal application to join - just jump in and start helping. Is that accurate?
<mdke> myrtlebeachbums: yes, that's about right. We have quite a lot of info on the wiki page and there are plenty of tasks to help with
<mdke> myrtlebeachbums: if you have any questions, go ahead and post to the list, we'll try to help out
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-01
<mistrynitesh> How can I write a wiki page and preview it offline before uploading it to the site?
<nigelb> click on preview
<Flannel> You can't do that offline though, but yes.  Preview will let you preview it before actually submitting
<mistrynitesh> nigelb: Flannel: i was thinking of writing it locally as a text file and later upload it... somewhat similar to writing an html page?
<nigelb> then write in gedit I would suggest.
<mistrynitesh> and where do i preview it?
<nigelb> you cant
<nigelb> you have to paste in wiki and preview
<mistrynitesh> so if I am somehow offline and want to test my page, i can't?
<nigelb> I doubt if you can
<mistrynitesh> nigelb: !!
<mistrynitesh> ok
<narcisgarcia_> Hello. Anybody here?
<narcisgarcia_> I've opened a thread in the forum (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8894007) about the massive loss of wiki pages.
<jpds> narcisgarcia_: Talking to someone about it.
<jpds> narcisgarcia_: Someone's just moved them.
<jpds> narcisgarcia_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Old/acerAspire5535?action=info
<narcisgarcia_> With the search box on the top of the wiki I cannot find for example the "AcerAspire1363WLMi" title. Thanks
<narcisgarcia_> I don't know how to find the destination URLs
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-02
<Kangarooo> hello. this team is ubuntu editors? who make wikis corect?
<jpds> Kangarooo: Anyone can edit the wikis.
<Kangarooo> how can i comment a line in wiki?
<Kangarooo> so its seen while editing but not when lookin wiki
<Kangarooo> how to make that text in wiki shows but not shown when looking at wiki? how to make comment that doesnt shows up?
<Kangarooo> in some languages // works as coment and also <!-- (begin comment tag) -->  (end comment tag) whats the same for wiki?
<jpds> Kangarooo: You should be able to add comments; adding # before your line.
<Kangarooo> yes ## is working # sometimes doesnt
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-03
<umang> Hi! I want to fork/make major changes to a page on the Team Wiki. Can I re-license it under CC-By-SA without getting permission from the original author. The original page does not have a license, the Team Wiki License page indicates that a license similar to CC-By-SA will be implemented. I've tried to contact the original author. Haven't heard back. It's this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python The person who conducted the IRC session tha
<umang> t the guide was based on has said he doesn't mind me using the CC-By-SA, but cannot relicense the guide since that is only derived from his work and not his work.
<umang> * and is not his
<umang> ?
<fagan> anyone around who can help with docbook translations
<fagan> I ran po2xml but got some of the text as the output and I didnt get an xml file
<fagan> It says cant find and a para of the doc
<fagan> but I just generated the po so its there
<fagan> hmmmmm
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-04
<umang> Hi! I want to fork/make major changes to a page on the Team Wiki. Can I re-license it under CC-By-SA without getting permission from the original author. The original page does not have a license, the Team Wiki License page indicates that a license similar to CC-By-SA will be implemented. I've tried to contact the original author. Haven't heard back. It's this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python The person who conducted the IRC session that
<umang>  the guide was based on has said he doesn't mind me using the CC-By-SA, but cannot relicense the guide since that is only derived from his work and is not his work.
<umang> (Sorry, I had asked yesterday, but didn't get a response, so asking again).
<umang> Is this really the best place to ask?
<umang> cody-somerville, Sorry to highlight you like this. I have a question about the Wiki, and noticed that you're a contributor to the documentation project. Do you think you could clear a doubt of mine about the Team Wiki's License?
<cody-somerville> umang, I can certainly try.
<umang> cody-somerville, I want to fork/make major changes to a page on the Team Wiki. Can I re-license it under CC-By-SA without getting permission from the original author. The original page does not have a license, the Team Wiki License page indicates that a license similar to CC-By-SA will be implemented. I've tried to contact the original author. Haven't heard back. It's this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python The person who conducted the IRC
<umang>  session that the guide was based on has said he doesn't mind me using the CC-By-SA, but cannot relicense the guide since that is only derived from his work and is not his work.
<umang> cody-somerville, Any ideas as to what I can do?
<cody-somerville> Sorry. I'm not aware of the definitive answer on this one. Ask mdke.
<umang> cody-somerville, He's away now. I'll try at a different time of day later. Thanks for your time, anyway. :)
<umang> (or I'll write an email to him)
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-05
<Jamal-LT> Good afternoon
<Jamal-LT> is there anybody online that I can speak to ?
<Jamal-LT> anybody knows which channel should I go to to report legal issues ?
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-06
<bullgard> Synaptic: "package linux-doc: Linux kernel specific documentation for version 2.6.31. --  package linux-source-2.6.31: Linux kernel source for version 2.6.31 with Ubuntu patches." So does linux-source-2.6.31 contain a superset of linux-doc? Can I delete linux-doc if I have linux-source-2.6.31 installed?
<Dano> Can someone tell me how to setup a shared repo using bzr?
<Dano> If I want to download several branches to edit, where should I postion the branches in relation to the shared repo?
<toobaz_> Is there some page where http://www.pietrobattiston.it/wiki/doku.php?id=karmic_fprint could be more useful than it is now?
<toobaz_> I mean: would https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FingerprintReader make sense?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-03-01
<DarkwingDuck> Is the Ubuntu Docs CC-BY-SA 3.0?
<rww> DarkwingDuck: CC-BY-SA 2.5, according to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/natty/view/head:/debian/copyright
<DarkwingDuck> Ah, okay. Thanks rww
<DarkwingDuck> mdke: any plans to update the docs from 2.5?
<mdke> DarkwingDuck: 2.5?
<DarkwingDuck> cc-by-sa
<DarkwingDuck> sorry
<DarkwingDuck> :)
<mdke> ah. I thought we use 3.0
<DarkwingDuck> mdke: ill do some more digging and let you know... in ou rdocs (kubuntu) its still listed as 2.5
<mdke> DarkwingDuck: If I get a moment I will try and track back to the last discussion we had
#ubuntu-doc 2011-03-04
<camelinahat> Is it me, or is it kind of ironic that in the WikiGuide, Basics, the PageCreation and WritingGuide pages don't exist?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-03-05
<Guest97323> I, please one question about official documentation. windows (and switching) folder are deleted definitely? windows documentation it seemed interesting ...
<Guest97323> thanks in advance for clarification
<issyl0> I've just been reading the Documentation Style guide.  Disappointingly, it says nothing about the number of spaces after a full stop (period) - can anyone advise, please?  Just out of interest, you know.  :-)
#ubuntu-doc 2011-03-06
<mdke> issyl0: our processing tools deal with this automatically - I think that one space is introduced regardless of how many spaces are actually used in the document
<issyl0> mdke: ah, right, that makes sense.  Thanks!
#ubuntu-doc 2012-02-27
<dhillon-v10> mdke: sorry about the reviews, i thought feature freeze meant stop for documentation, but now I realize that after documentation string freeze you can't add any new stuff
<dhillon-v10> will keep that in mind.
#ubuntu-doc 2012-02-28
<jono> would anyone be interested in helping to flesh out the documentation for accomplishments at - http://pad.ubuntu.com/accomplishments - it is as simple as editing the pad
#ubuntu-doc 2012-02-29
<phillw> hi, any editors about?
<dhillon-v10> phillw: what's up?
<phillw> hi dhillon-v10 I was trying a new way to quickly link logs from meetingology and used a #divert 0 [new page]  It failed and I cannot now get access to the page to reverse it (motto of the story, get myself registered for all changes, so I get the link back for an edit!).
<phillw> ,sorry, not #divert... #refresh
<kjs> hello
<kjs> I wish to create wiki pages, what is the score? Can I just use my openid ?
<dhillon-v10> phillw: i went afk to eat and stuff but anyways, i think the ubuntu-meeting bot automatically creates a link for the meeting logs right?
<dhillon-v10> 22:28 < phillw> hi dhillon-v10 I was trying a new way to quickly link logs from meetingology and used a #divert 0 [new page]  It failed and
<dhillon-v10> * pardon that last line, something wrong with my screenrc
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-01
<Riddell> ping
<Riddell> how can I copy https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OneiricUpgrades/Kubuntu
<Riddell> to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PreciseUpgrades/Kubuntu ?
<jbicha> Riddell: can't you just click the Edit button and copy all the wikicode, then paste it into the new one?
<Riddell> jbicha: no, that doesn't copy attachments
<phillw> ahh, no copy in extra items. I think you will have to manually re-add the attatchments :/
<Riddell> that's something which must have broken since the last time I did this
<jbicha> I just tried Package Pages, then Load but that didn't work at all
<Riddell> jbicha: you seem to have broken that page
<Riddell> can you fix it?
<Riddell> oh I fixed it
<Riddell> cache issue
<Riddell> never mind jbicha
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-02
<duanedesign> awat
<duanedesign> wat
<duanedesign> sigh
<swoody> We have any wiki gurus on here atm? :)
<head_victim> swoody: depends on the issue as to how guru you need :) I can try if you like
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-03
<m4n1sh> dpm: ping
<dpm> hi m4n1sh
<m4n1sh> dpm: you have access to the list ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-translators?
<m4n1sh> I have sent a mail (not subscribed)
<m4n1sh> as per the UIFE guidelines
<m4n1sh> can you approve it so that I can add it in the UIFE request
<dpm> sure, let me do it now
<dpm> m4n1sh, approved
<m4n1sh> thanks
<dpm> but only for ubuntu-translators
<dpm> m4n1sh, for ubuntu-doc you'll probably have to talk to mdke
<m4n1sh> dpm: thank you. Will talk to him once he is here
<dpm> ok, cool
#ubuntu-doc 2013-02-26
<GridCube> :) hi
<GridCube> if someone wanted to help translating and creating documentation in spanish, how should they proceed?
#ubuntu-doc 2013-02-28
<jbicha> Community Council meeting with the Docs Team starting now in #ubuntu-meeting
#ubuntu-doc 2014-02-24
<belkinsa> Afterthought, maybe this whole thing that you wrote, knome, should be somewhere on the wiki and in a visible place.
<knome> belkinsa, it is on the wikiguide already
<knome> the wikiguide is more solution-headed one though
<knome> the blog article just explains it a bit deeper
<belkinsa> Oh.  But that page is not that viewed, right>
<knome> not really, but IMO how it's written is better than the article for general use
<belkinsa> I guess I never read that wikiguide page...
<knome> (i'd guess most people just want it fixed, not hear the background)
 * belkinsa facepalms
<slickymaster-job> knome: you're around?
<knome> yep
#ubuntu-doc 2014-03-02
<belkinsa> Is anyone having a hard time connecting to the Ubuntu wiki?
<dsmythies> Note just now, but over the last few days somtimes it seems to take forever.
<belkinsa> Thanks.  I need those bot commands.
<dsmythies> Ya, I'm hoping for help with that, which is why I was looking for jose over on that other IRC
<belkinsa> Same, it's the first time that I'm teaching a class.
<dsmythies> me too.
<dsmythies> godbyk: Are you around? After all of our IRC yesterday, I had an idea.
<belkinsa> Well, this sucks.  If users can not connect to the wiki then how will they play around while I teach the class?
<dsmythies> belkinsa: I have no problem with wiki access at the moment. (and I printed the class bot stuff, after you remined me.)
<knome> oh, doc day
<belkinsa> Smart move.
<knome> i can access the wiki
<belkinsa> No luck here still.
<knome> seems to be pretty snappy for me
<knome> belkinsa, did you have a sandbox-page set up for people to edit, or did you have something else in mind?
<belkinsa> Didn't think of that.
 * belkinsa facepalms
<knome> also remember that only one people can actually *edit* a page at the same time
<knome> so you might want a sandbox page with users creating subpages into it
<knome> though if you want some example content...
<belkinsa> Okay, if the wiki connects for me.
<belkinsa> ...
<belkinsa> This is not my day.
<belkinsa> Are you going around when I teach my class, knome?
<knome> umm, tbh, i don't know
<knome> possibly
<belkinsa> Because I'm having issues connecting.
<belkinsa> stupid ice storm
<knome> surely there are other people around who can help
<belkinsa> Good point.
<knome> i can help as well if i'm around.
<godbyk> dsmythies: What was your idea?
<godbyk> Sorry I'm late, everyone.
<dsmythies> godbyk: Upon further reflection, it wasn't such a gret idea after all.
<godbyk> dsmythies: Ah, rats!
<dsmythies> godbyk: It was just a way of moving my package install command way up in the schedule, but making it seem as though you and I planned it rather than the "Oh my goodenss" that it was. I have asked Lyz, to ask people to execurte the command in the background at the end of her session.
<godbyk> dsmythies: Ah, gotcha.
<godbyk> dsmythies: I'm planning on starting out by talking about how people can get started with docs in kind of a general way. But if I have time toward the end, I'll try to walk them through the ssh-keygen and bzr stuff. We'll see how it goes.
<dsmythies> godbyk: I have notes on the bzr and ssh key stuff, just in case I need them. You are welcome to them: http://www.smythies.com/~doug/linux/ubuntu-docs/temp-classroom/class_script_alt.txt
<godbyk> dsmythies: Thanks!
<godbyk> Cookies for breakfast are okay when you're an adult, right?
<pleia2> yep
 * knome just had semlor... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semla
<pleia2> last night I had alfajores that jose brought me from peru
<pleia2> they were tastey :d
<knome> hehe
<godbyk> I have to go shovel a bunch of snow, but I'll be back in a bit.
<godbyk> Back now. There's slightly less snow on my sidewalks now.
<GunnarHj> Good evening!
<belkinsa> Hey there, GunnarHj.
<GunnarHj> Hi belkinsa
<GunnarHj> Just reviewed the irc-log from today's event.
<belkinsa> I just going to ask if you were there.
<GunnarHj> Noticed two persons who probably should be contacted.
<GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/~jose
<GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/~jsjgruber
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: No, had not the opportunity to be there at the time.
<belkinsa> But you were lurking
<belkinsa> And why those two need to be contacted?
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Only the last part. ;-)
<belkinsa> Ah, I have join/part messages off.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Because they showed an interest in the docs... Prospective contributors.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Maybe something for pleia2?
<belkinsa> Ah, I see.
<belkinsa> Jose was helping us in the classroom backstage if we needed it.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Aha, didn't know that.
<belkinsa> And I didn't not know that he wanted to help the Doc Team.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: I don't know either. But he asked a few good questions.
<belkinsa> I bet he knew the answers but I think it was for the rest.
<GunnarHj> Maybe..
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Are you basically saying that we didn't succeed in getting more people in?
<belkinsa> No, I'm not saying that.
<belkinsa> I think most people are just quiet/shy to ask questions during the sessions and Jose was doing that for them.
<belkinsa> ...
<belkinsa> Never mind.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Ok, so we'll have to wait and see, is that what you mean?
<belkinsa> Maybe.
<knome> so how many people talked in -chat during the day, apart from people who were organizing it?
<belkinsa> Two or three, I believe.
<belkinsa> It was benonsoftware and two others.
<belkinsa> No, it was benonsoftware and three others.  Two of them only said one line.
<belkinsa> Three, if you include benonsoftware.
<pleia2> jsjgruber is the guy who maintains lernid these days, so he often lurks during sessions to tests his new things ;)
<belkinsa> I have looked at Lernid.  It looks useful and more than just using IRC for classrooms.  dsmythies's session is a good example.
<pleia2> it has a terminal built in for things like dsmythies' session
<belkinsa> Yup, I had an afterthought about that.
#ubuntu-doc 2015-02-23
<imnichol> dsmythies, for what it's worth, I get a huge kick every time I see that [Merge] tag pop up in my inbox
<dsmythies> imnichol: Great. and thanks for your contributions.
#ubuntu-doc 2015-02-24
<dsmythies> imnichol: I saw your branch link, but never saw a MP. How about if I just change that link without an MP (which will actually be faster)?
<imnichol> dsmythies, fine by me
<imnichol> Yeah looks like I forgot to submit the MP
<imnichol> Sorry about that
<dsmythies> imnichol: It is such a trivial change, I'll just do it and credit you. Thanks for finding it.
<imnichol> Can we mark that section completed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide#Contribution_table ?
<imnichol> Or, I guess: can *I* mark it as completed?
<imnichol> I see that it's high priority, and I'm not sure what else needs to be checked
<dsmythies> imnichol: If you are happy with the section you can set the table entry to done.
#ubuntu-doc 2015-02-26
<pmatulis> dsmythies: hi
<dsmythies> pmatulis: I didn't see your "hi" until now.
<pmatulis> dsmythies: was going to comment on the language "bug".  it did seem a little unbelievable
<dsmythies> pmatulis: Yes, but it seems to have been sorted out, and more importantly, set to invalid.
<dsmythies> pmatulis: I am setup and can do the .POT files if you like.
<dsmythies> pmatulis: Just as a sanity check, I make a note of the number of untranslated srtings for a few languages before and after the .POT file update.
#ubuntu-doc 2015-02-27
<dsmythies> pmatulis: I am proceeding with .POT files.
<dsmythies> pmatulis: Oh! I forgot that step is so trivial.
#ubuntu-doc 2016-02-29
<pmatulis_> doesn't look like it to me
<feo> Hi all
<pmatulis> hello
<feo> Wanted to do some good thing and contribute to the wiki and change one of the pages I used and wanted correct it a bit
<feo> But looks like not allowed to do it
<feo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PostfixCompleteVirtualMailSystemHowto
<pmatulis> feo: the wiki is lock-down due to vandalism. it's taking a while to resolve
<pmatulis> send info to ubuntu-doc mailing list and someone can make the change
<pmatulis> (see topic above)
#ubuntu-doc 2016-03-01
<belkinsa> Who has OP powers in this channel?  I think t he topic needs to be changed.
#ubuntu-doc 2016-03-03
<belkinsa> Reminder, your Checkin-in with the CC is in less than 10 minutes!
<belkinsa> Reminder, your Checkin-in with the CC is in less than 10 minutes!
<pmatulis> what?
<pmatulis> where do i check in?
<belkinsa> In #ubuntu-meeting
<belkinsa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<belkinsa> pmatulis, I sent an e-mail a few days ago about: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2016-March/019751.html
<pmatulis> going there now
<dsmythies> belkinsa: Thnaks very much for the two reminder e-mails you sent in the last few days.
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<pmatulis> belkinsa: fyi, when i go to that wiki page i get 'Internal Server Error'
<pmatulis> hi dsmythies
<belkinsa> I know.
<dsmythies> I get a server error also, but tried again and it worked.
<dsmythies> pmatulis: are you here?
<pmatulis> dsmythies: yep
<dsmythies> pmatulis: Continuing from the CC meeting. I don't have a problem installing sever edition. I have a problem getting it working. Samba was a few weeks saga, the problem was a change since earlier 16.04 ISO's. You might have seen server team e-mails.
<dsmythies> this last weekend dhclient, dhcpd, named, all broke.
<pmatulis> dsmythies: no, i didn't see the emails
<dsmythies> some apparomor profiles have to be disabled, then things work.
<pmatulis> dsmythies: interesting
<knome> since a lot of people seem to be around now, and in a cooperative mood, do those people want to try to solve some of the issues/questions we have open?
<pleia2> I need to get back to $day_job
<knome> hurr durr.
<dsmythies> pmatulis: My point is that it gets to be very late in the cycle before I even have a system stable enough to use to review the serverguide with. Then things continue to change anyhow. for exmaple the chnage to /var/www/html was extremely late in the 14.04 cycle, after we had reviewed that area of the serverguide.
<dsmythies> pmatulis: A couple of those issues from thr weekend have now been fixed.
<dsmythies> pmatulis: my point with the change to systemd, is that myself I am just dicovering the issues now, and I was only ever on 14.04 before. I'm hardly the person to write about it on the serverguide.
<knome> dsmythies, would it be impossible to run a system in a virtual machine?
<GunnarHj> knome: I'm all in for solving open issues. The problem is that I was aware of the existence of such open issues that would prevent people from doing things. In my simple world the problem is a lack of volunteers willing to do things. Can you *please* be a little more specific than you were over at #ubuntu-meeting?
<dsmythies> knome: I do run some virtual machines also. I admot to have fallen behind with them, as I need this main server working.
<dsmythies> admot => admit
<knome> GunnarHj, one of the problematic issues is the community wiki
<knome> there doesn't seem to be a consensus on how to proceed with that
<GunnarHj> knome: Right, acknowledged.
<GunnarHj> knome: But besides that?
<knome> i don't remember the details of all similar discussions which have ended up in a stalled situation, since tbh, i try to forget...
<dsmythies> pmatulis: I have a couple of server team threads: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2016-February/thread.html
<GunnarHj> knome: Then how about a meeting to talk about the future of the wiki and *only* focus on that?
<GunnarHj> knome: Suppose we are now talking about the community help wiki only.
<knome> for now, yeah
<knome> i've been open for that before, but now i'm really not sure
<GunnarHj> knome: Aren't you sure you'd like a meeting to talk about the wiki? What do you propose instead to resolve the issues you mentioned above?
<knome> i'm saying that i'm not sure if the meeting can solve any problems we haven't been able to solve before
<knome> it is not like we're in a new situation, or something new has turned up
<knome> well, except that that the situation is even more unbearable, but that clearly won't change the opinions people have on the future of the wiki
<pmatulis> my honest opinion of the help wiki is to get rid of it and concentrate on actual documentation
<pmatulis> but i guess that's too radical for most
<GunnarHj> Isn't the real problem that we previously never took the time needed to finalize the discussions?
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: +1
<dsmythies> we tend to not drive things to conclusion.
<knome> pmatulis, i'm open for that too (as most of the options), but that would then need to mean that the useful bits from the wiki were moved to the official documentation and that there was a promise they would be maintained in the official documentation
<knome> pmatulis, the downside to that is that there would be no drive-by edits at that point, and that we wouldn't be gathering new bits in the same way (even if it might be slow now as well)
<pmatulis> knome: i don't think we can promise anything but i understand what you mean. still, a wiki page is for the community, it should not be a personal item
<pmatulis> knome: well, i'm not convinced of the value of drive-by edits
<knome> pmatulis, yeah, that's another issue we seem to have with the wiki, but it's mostly not related to the docs team
<pmatulis> in my mind, useful docs must be maintained consistently, in order for readers to have confidence
<knome> true
<knome> otoh, if there is no other information available except the two year old one... that's the starting point you can have
<knome> and if you have that in the wiki, and user X needs to get it working, he will get it working, and can then do a drive-by edit to make sure the page is up-to-date
<pmatulis> knome: i maintain the inverse position
<pmatulis> out of date docs is worse than no docs
<pmatulis> of course out-of-date is a spectrum
<pmatulis> occasional inaccuracies are ok but not systematic ones
 * dsmythies afk. will catch up in about 20 minutes.
<knome> pmatulis, i'm fine with running the docs/wiki like that as well... but good luck getting a decision done on taking the wiki down.
<pmatulis> knome: 'xactly
<GunnarHj> pmatulis: That's true, and in an ideal world we would have enough volunteers to maintain an extensive documentation, which would make the wiki redundant. But in the real world I think the wiki is useful, despite of all its deficiencies. But one thing I'd like to see is that it's more clearly shown the nature of the community help wiki, as opposed to the official maintained docs.
<knome> pmatulis, which is again my point; people X and Y have opinions, but since they disagree, nothing is done
<pmatulis> knome: it looks like it's killing itself anyway. maybe we should just let it die
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i don't know
<knome> got to go, bbiab
<GunnarHj> I don't have time to participate in this discussion tonight. But I'd really like to attend to a well prepared meeting, where the various options could be discussed in a systematic manner.
#ubuntu-doc 2016-03-04
<mhall119> pleia2: knome: the wiki permissions change should now be in effect for help.ubuntu.com/community/ as well
<pleia2> cool :)
<pleia2> someone who is not pleia2 or knome want to see if they can edit now? you do need to be in the launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad team
<mhall119> ok, unfortunately it seems that everybody is getting only Immutable pages on help.u.c/community, so they're reverting the changes there until they can figure it out
<mhall119> alright, sorry about that guys, hopefully we'll have better luck next week
<pleia2> doh
<pleia2> thanks for updating the thread
<tsimonq2> pleia2: yeah, immutable: http://i.imgur.com/8geloL3.png
<pleia2> we know
<pleia2> see mhall119's comment :)
<tsimonq2> :)
<tsimonq2> pleia2: http://i.imgur.com/GxQY1It.png is a thing, I am going to see what happens when I uncheck and recheck ubuntu-etherpad, to see if it works properly (sorry if this is bothering or has already been done but I want to see for myself :P)
<pleia2> good luck, hopefully it won't mess up your account x_x
<tsimonq2> heh
<pleia2> tsimonq2: you're a member through ~ubuntumembers, but approved your etherpad team request
#ubuntu-doc 2018-02-27
<sj> Hello, I'd like to create a new documentation page. I've read the wiki on how to contribute and there's a relevant issue open (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/+bug/1667894). Do you think just having a page for Remmina would be okay? The rest of the sharing docs are from Gnome.
