#ubuntu-leadership 2011-10-03
<YoBoY> good morning
<philipballew> good evening
<NRWlion> hey there
<NRWlion> hey there
<akgraner> hey
<akgraner> YoBoy - can you give me the link to the French translation of UWN
<akgraner> I'd like to look at the previous/next text you all use on your pages
 * akgraner goes back to UWN summaries :-)
<YoBoY> it's not on the french translation of uwn we use that
<akgraner> ahh I misunderstood then...oops
<YoBoY> we actualy are not translating uwn since... better not look at it ^^"
<akgraner> hehe no worries
<akgraner> do you have previous and next on any of your wiki pages?
<YoBoY> we use it on our frnech documentation http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/oneiric <<
<akgraner> ahhh ok
<akgraner> great
<akgraner> just adding looking into it on my todo list and needed a place to start :-)
<akgraner> YoBoY, thank you!
<YoBoY> but be carreful, it's not a moinmoin wiki, it's a dokuwiki, not the same syntax
<YoBoY> (and I have a css bug to fix xD )
<NRWlion> anything to do here?
<NRWlion> :D
<YoBoY> NRWlion: hugs to everyone :)
 * philipballew wonders the same
 * NRWlion hugs every1 in the room
<NRWlion> akgraner: did you see my comment on the leadership doc on google docs?
<akgraner> yep - just haven't gotten there yet today :-)
<akgraner> philipballew, I haven't started the spread sheet yet if you want to set that up...
<akgraner> or would you rather I did - I'm a little behind...heck one second  - I'll snag you the link
<akgraner> or rather a link
<philipballew> akgraner, alright. i can look at it today.
<akgraner> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtKZelXU8Y2LdHluVk1BSXlPMDdfT3lVUEZhS211QUE&hl=en_US
<akgraner> feel free to change it  :-)  that's just the basic start
<NRWlion> akgraner: if approved i'd like to give some comments on that spreadsheet too
<akgraner> no need to be approved :-)  just jump in :-)
<akgraner> all feedback is welcome and encourage
<akgraner> just wanted to work on finding resources we can point people to and use ourselves when adapting a skill set to the Ubuntu Community etc
 * akgraner heads back to summaries :-)
<philipballew> well off to my day! ill be bacl on around 5
<philipballew> *back
<NRWlion> akgraner: may i steal a minute of your time pls?
<NRWlion> have some points i'd like to discuss on the leadership skills spreadsheet you linked!
<akgraner> I can't right this second trying to get UWN wrapped up before this afternoon.  Can we go over it tomorrow - or later once UWN is out if you are still online and available?
<NRWlion> how long will you need to wrap the UWN?
<akgraner> at least another hour...pulling the stats now and it will still need to be reviewed by the team
<NRWlion> copy that
<NRWlion> i will place myself in front of TV now
<NRWlion> but i can take my ipad with me to be available
<NRWlion> ;)
<akgraner> great - thank you
<akgraner> will ping you on IRC once I am finished
<NRWlion> reporting back
<akgraner> NRWlion, ok :-)
<akgraner> waiting on a review of UWN now we've got all the information in there
<akgraner> so what's up - I saw your comments on the spreadsheet - all of them good points
<akgraner> that list is in no particular order
<NRWlion> just wanted to give you the opportunity to ask questions
<akgraner> and while we would like to prevent burnout we have to acknowledge that right now we have an undercurrent of frustration and burnout in the community
<NRWlion> akgraner: as my english isnt the best one i would guarantee to be clear ;)
<akgraner> ahh I understood - your English is awesome!
<NRWlion> do my comments fit ? i mean are they helpful for you guys to work on?
<akgraner> We need to move things around some and put them in a better order - you have a lot of amazing insight on this..
<akgraner> NRWlion, they are great!
<akgraner> feel free to add any comments you think of - between now and UDS we are trying to get as much information gathered and some put somewhere so we can emerge from UDS with a solid plan for the -P (Ubuntu 12.04 LTS) cycle
<NRWlion> akgraner: my problem is, i need to be pointed to things you guys need my "expertise" on ;)
<NRWlion> akgraner: anything else you want my opinion on?
<akgraner> NRWlion, well other than the spreadsheet the other resources are listed in my blog post and I think on the wiki - but I have to double check that though.
<NRWlion> akgraner: feel free to drop me a line on jens.leineweber@googlemail.com if you need me
<akgraner> will do
 * akgraner is thinking
<akgraner> NRWlion, do you feel comfortable re-arranging the skill set list to some logical order
<NRWlion> akgraner: which one?
<akgraner> how about the spread sheet
<akgraner> and we'll leave the document as is - a place to add brainstorming thoughts to the list
<Cheesehead> What's the link to that spreadsheet? I don't see it among my notes...
<akgraner> Cheesehead, that's b/c I just added it :)
<akgraner> one second
<akgraner> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtKZelXU8Y2LdHluVk1BSXlPMDdfT3lVUEZhS211QUE&hl=en_US#gid=0
<Cheesehead> akgraner: Thank you!
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: i felt free to put some input of my own into it as my studies are containing a major subject in leadership
<akgraner> Cheesehead, you're welcome
<NRWlion> ;)
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: Thank you for adding!
<akgraner> I wanted a place where people could add resource links to the various skill sets listed on the document
<akgraner> NRWlion, has some great feedback and I believe is going to put the list via the spreadsheet into a logical order of sorts
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: dont thank me before reading my comments ;)
<NRWlion> maybe you disagree with me ;)
<akgraner> and we'll keep the document for ad hoc brainstorming  - as people think of more skills etc
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: My preferred conflict-resolution method involves beverages, pizza, and karaoke. If I disagree, is that method of resoultion okay?
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: sorry i dont get you atm?
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: what do you mean ?
 * Cheesehead is looking over the spreadsheet comments
 * NRWlion is a little confused about the beverages thing
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: Sorry I said it poorly. I meant to say that disagreements are not a problem
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: so what is it then?
<akgraner> Cheesehead, I think what NRWlion means is they can be...if not handled correctly
<Cheesehead> akgraner: A great summation. Agreed.
 * Cheesehead is still catching back up from the weekend activities.
<NRWlion> sorry folks but i am still not able to get the point ... and that annoyes me
<NRWlion> :D
 * Cheesehead is crafting a clearer version...one moment please
<akgraner> NRWlion, don't be annoyed...I am sorry if I put an incorrect summation of your point here...
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: In the past I have been in lots of groups and on lots of teams. There were people I disagreed with. Usually, we would sit down and have a pizza and beer (beverage) and figure out the problem. We *always* get the problem resolved...
<NRWlion> akgraner: dont be ... it simply "annoyes" me not to know with point of my comments your guys are talking about ;)
<Cheesehead> ...So I do not forsee any disagreement we cannot work out pretty quickly.
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: the point is, that a good leader needs to prevent and incude possible disagreements of his / her co-workers
<Cheesehead> An excellent point. Agreed.
<akgraner> NRWlion totally agree with you there
<NRWlion> and to prevent those disagreements he needs to establish a plan of action
<NRWlion> this plan of action needs to fit into the specialities of the team members
<akgraner> I think you can't possible plan for everything but being able to look at any given situation from as many points as possible helps
<NRWlion> and because you can not know everyones speciality i recommend to have a kind of assessment centre to filter the ones who fit and those who dont
<akgraner> NRWlion, sometimes you won't know what those specialties are in the beginning...and the community and community teams are very fluid and undulating in the way people's contributions work...
<Cheesehead> Part of recruiting (or orientation) is to figure out what skills and resources people want to contribute.
<NRWlion> akgraner: agreed on your point BUT, if you try to establish a transparent plan of action (in this term: establish a transparent way to have the possible teammembers a look on what is needed
<akgraner> NRWlion, I think we have to operate in the community as there *is* a place for everyone  - we just have to try to find all those places (or as many as possible) - I think that's called setting the expectations
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: that is why i sort a recommend this assessment centre which gives you a proper way on the qualifications
<akgraner> we can't tell people what they should think but we can set expectations etc
<NRWlion> akgraner: now you got my point *happy*
<NRWlion> have you guys ever heard about assessment centres?
<Cheesehead> Perhaps not by that name.
<Cheesehead> Many concepts have multiple names.
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: hang on, maybe i have some online literature about it
<akgraner> nope  - but maybe like Cheesehead said there might be another name for it
<NRWlion> http://www.psychometric-success.com/assessment-centers/acfaq-what-is.htm
<NRWlion> have a read on this link i posted
<NRWlion> maybe this clears some of your questions
 * Cheesehead is reading...
<akgraner> ditto
<Cheesehead> I've seem them variously called intake assessments, orientation questionaires, and a few other names.
<Cheesehead> I do informal interviewing to get that information.
<akgraner> yep- I don't think we would get far in the community with people being assets formally
<Cheesehead> One key to new team-members is gaining trust before asking them a bunch of questions. That's why use informal interviweing. The give-and-take and personal relationship builds the trust.
<akgraner> I know I would probably not like the idea of that
<Cheesehead> akgraner: It could be sold in much frendlier terms...
<akgraner> Cheesehead, nods - NRWlion however I think that leaders should know about how to do this informally
<akgraner> we all do it...
<NRWlion> akgraner: agreed
<akgraner> some just better than others
<akgraner> I like the resource/reference though
 * NRWlion likes the productive environment between akgraner and Cheesehead and himself
 * Cheesehead too
<akgraner> thanks me too - but everyone in here works like this - just not everyone is in front of IRC at the same times...
<NRWlion> akgraner: i am simply happy to have found a team to contribute as an expert after my past here in this community wasnt the best one ... you remember my story, dont you?
<NRWlion> that is why i wrote this
<Cheesehead> Some kind of intake (including orientation, skill assessment, etc) to new members is definitely part of successful recruiting. Else the new member just walks away bored.
<akgraner> I do :-) and thank you for your feedback
<akgraner> we'll just have to work it out together...and I think this group should be able to demonstrate that
<NRWlion> akgraner: as i am quite busy at the moment could you fill in Cheesehead?
 * Cheesehead sees his name and is puzzled. Fill in?
 * Cheesehead scrolls back to see what he missed...
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: it isnt mentioned in here
<NRWlion> the story akgraner and I talked about is back in 2010
<NRWlion> and early 2011
 * Cheesehead realizes he has been fooled by a wrapped line.
<NRWlion> ???
<Cheesehead> It was "Fill in X", not "Fill in, X". I'm the recipient, not the participant.
<akgraner> he guys brb - need to be afk for a few
<Cheesehead> Goodness. What I wrote confused *me*
<akgraner> thanks NRWlion and I am glad this team is working out better for you...
 * Cheesehead uses a time machine to go back 5 minutes in time and do it all over properly.
<akgraner> Cheesehead, share the time machine I'm also in need of one :-)  bbiab...
<NRWlion> akgraner: i will change my identity to get rid of the bad memories
<Cheesehead> SilverLion is a great name.
<SilverLion> :D
<SilverLion> starting to write my profiles etc new
<SilverLion> Cheesehead: to get to know me better: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nrwlion-testimonials
<Cheesehead> My wiki page is incomplete...I plan to apply in perhaps the spring. But some other stuff is at https://plus.google.com/116428448573403038184
<Cheesehead> Oh, something came up. Must go...
 * Cheesehead departs for a couple hours
<SilverLion> Cheesehead: look for Jens Leineweber on G+ and you will find me ;)
<NRWlion> re
<NRWlion> aloha i am back after my internet connection crashed ;)
<NRWlion> anybody there?
<YoBoY> nop
<YoBoY> :D
<NRWlion> hey yoboy how is everything?
<YoBoY> 42
<YoBoY> well, fine I think
<NRWlion> ;)
<akgraner> Thought I'd share with you all - this just ended up in my twitter feed - 12 Most Effective Habits of âSocial Peopleâ - http://12most.com/2011/08/17/12-effective-habits-social-people-2/
<NRWlion> akgraner: while i am working to update my main desktop to the "new" stable lubuntu I will write down some thoughts about leadership ... but attention these are my personal opinion and not founded with resources to depend on
<NRWlion> :D
<akgraner> no worries :-) we all have thoughts on Leadership :-)
<akgraner> Thank you!
<NRWlion> akgraner: here is one more link for you to read (went through my university stuff and found it)
<NRWlion> http://ezinearticles.com/?Whats-It-Takes-To-Be-A-Leader&id=709149
<NRWlion> akgraner: need your help
<NRWlion> ;)
<akgraner> what's up...just published UWN and I have to get one email out....it will be an hour or so before I have some free time
<akgraner> but happy to ping you when I am finished - it's a good article...
<NRWlion> akgraner: just a simple question: I am asked to apply for ubuntu beginners team and would like to hear your opinion ... you know me a bit now and as we are working together that productively I would love to have a testimonial from you
<akgraner> I think you have a lot to offer...I can give a testimonial if you'd like - which area of the BT are you applying for?  Or just overall membership - not sure how it's organized these days
<akgraner> NRWlion, where do I need to send the testimonial too?
<NRWlion> hang on a sec
<NRWlion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nrwlion-testimonials << there would be lovely
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: ping!
<bkerensa> akgraner: <c_smith> +and that we're in the weekly newsletter is awesome! :D
<bkerensa> :D
<NRWlion> who is "we" bkerensa
<bkerensa> Ubuntu Oregon LoCo
<NRWlion> bkerensa: kk
<NRWlion> yeah ^^ my mentor at ubt just approved my application for Ubuntu Beginners Team
<NRWlion> :D
<akgraner> sweet - congratulations
<NRWlion> akgraner: that is why i need your support for ;)
<NRWlion> akgraner: if you have the time (i know you are busy as hell ;) ) i would appreciate it if you could give me a testimonial and talk to the s-fox (my mentor) about our co-op
<akgraner> sure - I'll add it to my list - if you don't see anything on your wiki (by 7am EST - my time) then I'll get it after noon my time tomorrow :-)
<NRWlion> hey mentor s-fox ;)
<NRWlion> akgraner: pls meet the s-fox (my mentor at UBT)
<s-fox> Hello.
<akgraner> hi s-fox!
<akgraner> I read your blog often - thanks for all the interviews btw -)
<akgraner> :-)
<s-fox> I suppose I should also come in here to find out what this channel is for, though NRWlion  is the main reason I am currently here :)
 * NRWlion is flattered ^^
<akgraner> great
<NRWlion> akgraner: i talk to s-fox about my contribution and mentioned that you would be the perfect person to ask about my work here at the leadership team
<s-fox> The forum council got DarkwingDuck's email, I would like to hear more
<akgraner> great  - let me get you the link to the wiki where posts about the group have been added
<akgraner> s-fox, will you be online and in IRC for a while longer I have to finish an email right quick
<akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership/Links
<s-fox> Okay,until 23:00 UTC I shall be online
 * NRWlion stays online that long if needed
<s-fox> NRWlion: I said I would add my support ;) I know the time is bad for you
<NRWlion> s-fox i am re-installing my main desktop
<akgraner> s-fox - NRWlion I'll add a testimonial  - s-fox feel free to join in on the efforts of the leadership team....
<akgraner> we need to update the forums thread and add more information it it
<akgraner> to it even...
<NRWlion> akgraner: which side did you add the testimonial on? i dont see it in my wiki
<akgraner> I haven't yet
<NRWlion> ah ^^ ok
<akgraner> I am in the middle of something
<NRWlion> i misinterpreted the I'll into a I've
<NRWlion> :D
<akgraner> no worries
<s-fox> akgraner: we created the sub forum at DarkwingDuck 's request, no threads have been created in it.  http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=411
<akgraner> s-fox yep I just realized that today :-(
<akgraner> I'll add that to my to do list and get it updated...
<akgraner> then find someone to help keep it updated...:-)  Just a busy time for everyone right now with 11.10 about to be released...
<s-fox> akgraner:  Do you have a forums account?
<NRWlion> s-fox need help with the ubuntu forums as well :(
<NRWlion> my passwort and email isnt recognized
<s-fox> I will have a look NRWlion
<NRWlion> thx man
<akgraner> s-fox yep I post UWN :-)
<s-fox> NRWlion:  Taken care of.
<s-fox> akgraner:  So, what can the forum council help the ubuntu leadership project with?
<NRWlion> kk thx
<akgraner> DarkwingDuck, or Cheesehead can you assist s-fox please it's going to be a few minutes before I can answer...
 * Cheesehead returns
<Cheesehead> Scrolling back...
<Cheesehead> Hello, s-fox. Thanks for coming by.
<Cheesehead> Seems like my forum account works properly.
<Cheesehead> s-fox: The forum council can help us in a few ways. First, by providing feedback.
<s-fox> On what exactly do you want feedback on?
<Cheesehead> Great question - trying to say it just right...one moment please...
<Cheesehead> Ack. So much to say, and a few distractions here...
<NRWlion> am i needed here ?
<NRWlion> otherwise i would love to see my pillow ;)
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: Your input is always welcome, but I undersand the call of the night very well. You're busy - get some rest.
<NRWlion> s-fox you need my for now? or are we clear about my application?
<NRWlion> @ Cheesehead: s-fox is my mentor for ubuntu-beginners-team and working on my application for membership
<s-fox> Cheesehead:  I am here for 2 reasons.
<s-fox> First to hear from akgraner about how NRWlion  has been helping this project and second, to find out how the forum council can assist.
<Cheesehead> I can talk the second reason.
<Cheesehead> The forum community, from my outsider persective, seems cohesive and consistent.
<Cheesehead> Good moderation.
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: you can talk the first reason too ^^ you have seen my comments and stuff didnt you?
<NRWlion> :D
 * Cheesehead laughs
<Cheesehead> I certainly can.
<Cheesehead> I have about 10 minutes before I must leave this location, so to business!
<Cheesehead> Does the forum council, or leaders in the forums community, talk much about good leaders or leadership?
<NRWlion> well then go for it ^^
<s-fox> To an extent, yes Cheesehead .
<s-fox> The forum moderators and administrators often talk about how to best handle some situations that occur.
<s-fox> Good leadership falls under good advice
<Cheesehead> It shows. Whenever I see moderation (rarely), it's consistent and effective, no matter who the mod is.
 * Cheesehead is suddenly deluged by a couple unexpected events
<Cheesehead> My apologies, I must step out for a couple hours again.
<Cheesehead> Happy to pick this up again at your convenience.
<s-fox> Some moderators wait for input from others before acting
<s-fox> I am likely to be gone by the time you return. I will continue to wait for akgraner
<Cheesehead> We hope to share the best practices and lessons learned from across the community. I suspect the forums have a lot of both to share.
<akgraner> s-fox - I am tied up for a while longer can we just chat tomorrow?  Rather you have to wait for me - I'll add to NRWlion wiki page as well
 * Cheesehead departs
<s-fox> When do you propose?
<akgraner> I'll be gone from 1100 UTC until 1600 UTC
<akgraner> so anytime between 1600 UTC  - 1900 UTC then 2100  UTC- forward
<NRWlion> folks i will be online from 2000 UTC till 22 UTC because i have two 24 hr shifts coming up this week
<s-fox> 2200 UTC is when I expect to be available akgraner .
<akgraner> great  - then let's shoot for that then
<akgraner> I'll add it to my calendar - thanks s-fox...
<s-fox> Goodbye.
#ubuntu-leadership 2011-10-04
<NRWlion> good morning
<NRWlion> hi there
<NRWlion> pleia2: ping
<NRWlion> akgraner are you there?
<akgraner> about to walk out the door ...have to return a rental car
<NRWlion> sorry didnt know ^^ dont let me interrupt you ^^ cu later
<s-fox> Hello.
<Cheesehead> s-fox: Hello
<s-fox> Hello Cheesehead
 * Cheesehead scrolls back to see if discussion went anywhere after he left
<Cheesehead> Let's see...blah...blah. Ah, yes: Best practices, lessons learned, share among Ubuntu communities. I think that's where we left off?
<s-fox> It did not.
<s-fox> Correct.
<Cheesehead> So I suppose what we're looking for from the Forums Council is: What's your secret to success? and What do you discuss to improve?
<Cheesehead> I know that's quite vague.
<Cheesehead> We don;t know enough to be specific yet.
<s-fox> Our success? I think it the team of moderators that support the council.
<NRWlion> evening!
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: evening!
<NRWlion> hey cheese how is / was your day ;)?
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: Well, it's just past noon, so much is yet to come. So far, quite well.
<Cheesehead> Glad you came in. Just talking to s-fox
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: sorry?
<s-fox> We are also not tolerant of users violating our rules, we are happy to remove any user who is disruptive.  The community should not suffer because of a single individual.
<Cheesehead> s-fox: I do appreciate that when I cruise the forums.
<NRWlion> hey s-fox my mentor ^^ just fill me in pls
<Cheesehead> My question to s-fox :So I suppose what we're looking for from the Forums Council is: What's your secret to success? and  What do you discuss to improve?
<s-fox> I would like to see the relationship between canonical and the forum council improved.
<NRWlion> s-fox need some minutes of your time if possible
<NRWlion> but not important
<Cheesehead> s-fox: How about skills or abilities or attitudes in moderators? Or non-moderator frequent participants? What does the council look for in a good moderator, and are there improvements you wish for?
<Cheesehead> (Wow, *that* question confused me, and I wrote it)
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: ping me if needed ... i switch to background mode and "re-invent" myself here
<s-fox> The selection process is quite involved. I will explain...
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: Certainly. Thanks for letting me know.
<Cheesehead> s-fox: I have read the wiki pages on forims governance and getting involved (so you need not repeat)
<s-fox> The forum council request that the forum moderators nominate others for moderator status. The staff then discuss the pro's and con's of the user.  This is usually focussed on technical merit, but also the softer human aspects.  Previous interactions are quite important, posting style and of course a clean record on the forum.  After a week or so of discussion the forum council then decide which users to approach, based on recommendati
<s-fox> from the existing moderators.  Sometimes we will focus on users located in a particular timezone more favourably than others.
<s-fox> The council vote on the recommendations, needing a majority for someone to be asked.
<s-fox> The council also occasionally request that the moderators nominate users who are active in certain areas of the forum.  For example the last set of moderators we added, we were particularly interested in users who frequent the community cafe.
<s-fox> We added 2 to monitor that section in particular.
 * NRWlion will be monitoring the leadership section of the forum ;)
<Cheesehead> Thanks, NRWlion
<s-fox> Do you have additional question Cheesehead ?
<Cheesehead> s-fox: Is there any recognition or action if a moderator loses interest and drifts away, or burns out, or otherwise significantly decreases particiaption?
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: how should a moderator recognize this? if not speicially trained?
<s-fox> We annually ask all the moderators and administrators to express if they still have an interest in continuing to serve the community
<Cheesehead> s-fox: That's a neat solution. Any idea how it came to be?
<s-fox> It has always been so.
<Cheesehead> You mentioned communication with Canonical. Are you willing to elaborate in this forum?
<s-fox> We also encourage people to say when they are away for periods of time. For example I was away in Asia for quite a period and my internet access was intermittent at best.
 * Cheesehead apologises for stepping on s-fox's toes
<s-fox> I do not understand your question Cheesehead
<Cheesehead> You mentioned that the relatonship between forums and C. can be improved. Can we discuss the problem for a moment?
<s-fox> Canonical are aware of the problem, I am not at liberty to say more. I apologise.
<Cheesehead> s-fox: I understand.
<s-fox> Do you have additional questions Cheesehead ?
<Cheesehead> A couple. Typing now. (Thank you for your time!)
<Cheesehead> When new moderators or admins enter their role, is their any training (skills, systems, etc) you ask them to do? Or wish you had the resources to provide?
<s-fox> We have several resources at hand that we instruct them to go over and if needed ask further questions.
<Cheesehead> What kind of support (if any) do older moderators offer to new moderators?
<s-fox> The new moderator is free to ask any question and the team respond in reasonable time.
<Cheesehead> s-fox: Thanks for answering my questions. You have exhausted my list.
<s-fox> Now I have a question for you Cheesehead
<s-fox> Why are you asking me these questions? To what purpose? Where are the answers going? What do you wish to learn?
<Cheesehead> Great question (stretching fingers for the reply)
 * NRWlion laughs ^^
<NRWlion> i do know ;)
<Cheesehead> The forums seems to be a very successful community
<Cheesehead> What lessons can we learn from it's success?
<Cheesehead> What practices or lessons can we share with other UBuntu communities?
<NRWlion> hey there!
<Cheesehead> What expertise to Forums gurus have that they don't even know others want to learn?
<Cheesehead> We don't learn those answers unless we ask.
<Cheesehead> s-fox: does that answer some of the question?
<s-fox> And where is this information going?
<Cheesehead> Specific responses? Just into the IRC log.
<Cheesehead> Aggregate responses and lessons learned? Into the IRC training sessions, the leadership handbooks, UDS sessions, and perhaps a few other products.
<s-fox> Okay.
<Cheesehead> s-fox: Did I answer the question?
<s-fox> Yes.
 * Cheesehead breathes a sigh of relief.
 * s-fox goes back to administrating over 1.4 million users.
<NRWlion> then i have one ;) what purposes does the forum section have?
<Cheesehead> Early in this process, that is yet to be seen.
<Cheesehead> s-fox: THANK YOU for your time and help.
<s-fox> Your group requested we create it, we went out of our way to do it. It is still unused.
<NRWlion> s-fox: i will take controll of the forumssection ;)
<Cheesehead> s-fox: We are still developing the threads that will go into it. It will fill soon.
<s-fox> Okay Cheesehead .
<Cheesehead> Indeed, if time, I have about three threads to put in there today...
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: mail it to me ... i have some freetime
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: Sure
<NRWlion> adress comes with pm
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: You asked a question about 20 minutes ago: how should a moderator recognize this? if not speicially trained?
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: You asked a question about 20 minutes ago: how should a moderator recognize this? if not speicially trained?
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: ;) that was a question for s-fox
<Cheesehead> Ah.
<Cheesehead> First forum thread: Discussion about the skills list https://docs.google.com/document/d/13VOmTgEqCzIW8oITV2d5fIRD3xsiKRVMd39OUlpx6xQ/edit?hl=en_US
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: on it
<Cheesehead> Since discussion has slowed on the document, that will generate another burst of discussion from others.
<Cheesehead> I'm thinking copy-and-paste the text instead of linking to the document. That will prevent erroneous editing.
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: Thank you!
<NRWlion> simply copy/paste?
<NRWlion> copy that
<NRWlion> done in 2'
<NRWlion> ;)
<Cheesehead> Second forum thread will be a request for trainers and participants in the IRC workshops. I'll write that one.
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: ;)
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: just an info: having some difficulties in formating the thread, but i am on it
<Cheesehead> Problem copying from GoogleDocs?
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: nope problems with my internet connections
<pleia2> NRWlion: pong (I was sleeping earlier :))
<s-fox> Hello pleia2 , did I congratulate you on your engagement?
<pleia2> s-fox: probably :) but thanks again!
<NRWlion> sorry pleia2 my connection is bad as hell
<NRWlion> still working on it ...
<NRWlion> did you reply on my last message?
<pleia2> NRWlion: didn't see anything from you
<NRWlion> pleia2: i am preparing to run for Ubuntu Beginners Team Membership and looking for supporters ... as we worked several issues of the UWN (not much but some ;) ) i thought you could ad a word about me and my work for uwn?
<pleia2> NRWlion: I don't really give testimonials these days because of my positions on boards and councils
<pleia2> nothing personal
<NRWlion> no offense taken ;) just asking ;)
<NRWlion> hey there
<NRWlion> am back after a hackers attack on my router :(
<NRWlion> DarkwingDuck: ping!
<NRWlion> DarkwingDuck: pls approve my application for the launchpad team
<DarkwingDuck> NRWlion: Give me a moment :D
<DarkwingDuck> NRWlion: added. :)
<NRWlion> DarkwingDuck: ;)
<NRWlion> thx
<NRWlion> now i am trying to create a pgp key to sign the code (again) :(
#ubuntu-leadership 2011-10-05
<Cheesehead> valorie: Thank you for that quite unexpected +1 on my rant
<valorie> you are most welcome -- honest speech is always welcome
<NRWlion> morningo
<akgraner> Hey all - hope your morning is going well...I am going to re-send invitations to all the leadership councils in the community the invitation to join this team...I think it's important that we are all working together in this effort
<head_victim> akgraner: there were some interesting things brought up in the CC meeting earlier about leadership as well you might want to read
<akgraner> head_victim, I know
<akgraner> I read it all and have already send emails to some folks and working on a blog post now :-)
<head_victim> akgraner: cool, just checking, figured it might be useful/relevant :)
<akgraner> completely :-)
 * head_victim has a habit of reading scrollbacks a bit too much
<akgraner> sorry didn't mean to be short - need to find my coffee cup...
<head_victim> Coffee is always high on my priority list as well so don't stress, as long as it's found
<akgraner> totally :-)
 * bkerensa works on Ubuntu Oregon's Ocelot T-shirt designs
<akgraner> :-)
<bkerensa> indeed fun :(
<bkerensa> so much backlog of stuff to do
<akgraner> always :-)
<YoBoY> bkerensa: doing a tshirt for each release ?
<bkerensa> Yeah thats the plan
<bkerensa> and every global jam
<bkerensa> :)
<bkerensa> expensive
<bkerensa> :D
 * bkerensa also will try and have catering provided for every release party and global jam
<bkerensa> :D
<YoBoY> yes, it's expense to make one time tshirts :]
<YoBoY> expensive
<YoBoY> c'est cher quoi :D
<bkerensa> YoBoY: $200-$300 each time
<bkerensa> :D
<YoBoY> paid by the team or the participants ?
<bkerensa> neither
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> Sponsors
<YoBoY> cool :)
<YoBoY> we don't have sponsors in France :] perhaps we are doing something wrong ^^"
<Cheesehead> bkerensa: Sponsors pay for the shirts directly, or donate funds to the group?
<Cheesehead> bkerensa: (Where in Oregon? I grew up in Portland)
<YoBoY> bkerensa: how many tshirts do you make each time ?
<bkerensa> 10 to 15 depends on the design (because cost varies by design)
<bkerensa> Cheesehead: They pay directly.... We do not accept any funds :)
<bkerensa> Cheesehead: Our release party will be in Portland at Backspace or Ground Kontrol
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> Cheesehead: However I'm encouraging various other users in rural areas to kickstart Ubuntu Hours
<Cheesehead> bkerensa: We're trying to grow Ubuntu Hours across Wisconsin, too.
<YoBoY> ok easier to sponsor a small quantity I suppose :)
<Cheesehead> YoBoY: Direct payment from sponsor to vendor has a tax advantage in the US, especially if the sponsored group is not regiesteered with those tax authorities!
<Cheesehead> For example, my store sponsored 40 T-shirts for a school class. Direct payment to vendor makes it an "Advertising & Promotion" expense on the tax form. Donation to the school would make it a "Charitable Contribution", for which the audit requirements are quite strict.
<Cheesehead> (US only)
<YoBoY> clearly, but I need to find sponsors to make around 150 tshirts, it's a just more difficult :D
<Cheesehead> Depends on the advertising budget of the sponsor.
<YoBoY> yes
<Cheesehead> Most places I'm familiar with have setup-cost + cost-per-shirt. 150 is doable in my budget every two years or so, and my store is *tiny*.
<charlie-tca> Instead of asking one sponsor for 150, ask 15 for 10 tshirts each
<Cheesehead> I'm usually more concerned about the shirt quality - lousy thin shirt reflects poorly on us.
<YoBoY> charlie-tca: and my time machine? where is this awesome time machine to let me do that ? :D
<Cheesehead> What does the sponsor get? Logo on the back?
<YoBoY> (fear)
<charlie-tca> I have them put their logo on the backs, myself. It gives them free advertising for a long time.
<Cheesehead> Problem with backside is then you pay double the setup cost. That adds up fast on small orders.
<YoBoY> 150 tshirts, every 6 month, for the volunteers (and with a model for women ;) ) with no other logo than Ubuntu  (and just a small ubuntu-fr.org, new team guidelines, the product first)
<charlie-tca> this is true, too
<charlie-tca> YoBoY: that seems like a lot to ask for
<Cheesehead> YoBoY: What about blank shirts, and a button or badge instead of silkscreening?
<bkerensa> Cheesehead: American Apparel Shirts for the win
<YoBoY> Cheesehead: blank shirts ? no fun :]
<Cheesehead> Just thinking options.
<Cheesehead> American Apparel shirts can be good. My preferred embroiderer/silkscreener uses them.
<YoBoY> our last tshirt http://www.flickr.com/photos/rock-n-pol/5916332733/in/photostream/lightbox/ B&C 150g
<bkerensa> YoBoY: It is surprisingly cheaper to have shirts made ourself then buy from Canonical
<Cheesehead> YoBoY: I totally agree that your group is big enough and organized enough to need printed shirts.
<Cheesehead> If you want a sponsor to mass-buy all 150, what should they get out of it?
<YoBoY> bkerensa: yes
<Cheesehead> I like the photo. Great shirt design!
<YoBoY> Cheesehead: don't know...
<YoBoY> the design is really simple, if you want it, i can give you ^^
<YoBoY> we have also this black model http://enventelibre.org/t-shirt-ubuntu-noir-special-1010
<Cheesehead> Drat.
 * Cheesehead ducks out for a couple hours
<YoBoY> bkerensa: I asked a discount to buy 150 official lanyard in May, and they responded me they don't do that, it's the store price or nothing ^^
<bkerensa> yeah
<bkerensa> YoBoY: Did you have to ask Canonical to sell shirts?
<YoBoY> we have an old agreement yes
<charlie-tca> and now... I present the Precise Pangolin, destined to become Xubuntu 12.04 LTS
<charlie-tca> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784
<charlie-tca> s/Xubuntu/Ubuntu
<ashams> akgraner: Hi, is it planned to add further information to Chapter 6, ex. giving more info on each on communication means at it's end?
<akgraner> ashams, there is more information needed for all the chapters
<akgraner> I was hoping to get chapters 1 and 2 done before UDS so I  that there are completed chapters to use to teach me to add stuff to NZR
<akgraner> bzr even
<ashams> will take a look on both
<akgraner> then I can create a how to based on that - and then everyone will know how to do it
<akgraner> ashams, please free to add information
<akgraner> or point to resources you think would be good to use for a chapter
<ashams> can I add a new chapter too? I'm thinking of something like case studies describing some problems a team leader may run through and suggested solutions, what you think?
<akgraner> ashams, proofing and feedback of course is needed too
<Cheesehead> I suggest adding case studies to the existing chapters.
<akgraner> ashams, yep  I was think those would be good for appendix information
<Cheesehead> (Since that's what I already did)
<ashams> gr8 :)
<akgraner> so make it an appendix  - I think one or two in a chapter is fine - others should be in an appendix and in an online resource
<ashams> akgraner: yeah, I second this
<akgraner> but that's just the editor in me - :-)
<ashams> case studies on each chapter will take a lot of time, Cheesehead , what you think?
<akgraner> yes  - a lot...
<akgraner> but that can be added over time
<akgraner> remember this isn't something that needs to be done all at once
<ashams> yes but also keeping in mind that a lot of ppl in a need for this :)
<akgraner> getting the core information in is important then we just add to it as people can...this way we don't add to much pressure onto those helping - feel free to create Appendix Foo Chapter Bar
<akgraner> ashams, totally
<Cheesehead> ashams: I think akgraner has put together an excellent skeleton for us to flesh out. Whether examples go in a chapter or an appendix is really the editor's preference.
<Cheesehead> Since the editor is akgraner, I defer.
<akgraner> Cheesehead, people can add stuff wherever and in the final stages we can flesh it out
<ashams> Hey, I think there's some kind of misunderstanding
<ashams> I wasn't talking about examples
<akgraner> I'm not picky - (yet) :-)  I am just excited and encouraged by everyones enthusiasm and willingness to help out
<ashams> but, about a a problems that existed locos ran through and possible solutions
<ashams> some problems*
<akgraner> ashams, nods - but the problem is some haven't voiced these problems
 * Cheesehead is confused by the difference
<ashams> I mean when things go bad and leaders can't deal with it
<akgraner> so I am going to ask the loco contacts/ loco council to help document those  - I'll cc you on the email if you'd like to help sorting that out
<akgraner> Cheesehead, some things are this has occurred
<ashams> akgraner: sure
<akgraner> others are this might happen here's how to prepare
<Cheesehead> So...examples of things that have gone wrong?
<ashams> Cheesehead: yeah
<ashams> and how to fix it
<akgraner> yep
 * Cheesehead seems to understand better now
<ashams> :)
<akgraner> slight difference
<ashams> yes, but should we add it to each chapter on somewhere else?
<akgraner> ashams, I'll work on that over the next day or two
<ashams> or*
<akgraner> let's just add them separately then we can work them into the chapters
<Cheesehead> Case studies of that sort are precisely what I hope to bring to the IRC workshops as well
<akgraner> (as needed)
<ashams> aha
<akgraner> Cheesehead, I love the online workshop ideas
<Cheesehead> Always nice to be able to re-use good material
<DarkwingDuck> akgraner: Quick publishing question for you.
<Cheesehead> akgraner: When I have time later this week, I plan to get more aggressive about recruiting some trainers.
<akgraner> Cheesehead, nice!  Let me know how I can help :-)  I am working on open getting through open week right now
<akgraner> DarkwingDuck, shoot
<DarkwingDuck> akgraner: when submitting an ad. Does Ubuntu User require the color and percision markers on the edges and corners?
<akgraner> depends on what it's for...but generally not
<akgraner> what ad are you submitting  - print or online?
<DarkwingDuck> Okay. It's a full page ad for SCALE. :) Want a sneek peek?
<DarkwingDuck> Print I believe.
<akgraner> ahhh - and of course...
<DarkwingDuck> It's still SVG but, I'm getting it ready for print once it's 100% approved. http://people.ubuntu.com/~david.wonderly/SCaLE10/Ads/UbuntuUser.svg
<ashams> DarkwingDuck: it's nice :)
<DarkwingDuck> Thanks.
<akgraner> NIce
<DarkwingDuck> I have not done any graphic design for almost 10 years. Feels good to get back into it.
<akgraner> Nice
<akgraner> I love SCALE
<DarkwingDuck> :D
<DarkwingDuck> Me too.
<akgraner> it's one of my favorite events to 1) speak at 2) attend 3) interview the planners
<akgraner> which reminds me I need to submit my talk
<DarkwingDuck> :) I'm doing most of the graphic planning this year.
<akgraner> that's great
<akgraner> those folks are an awesome group
<DarkwingDuck> Yes they are.
<DarkwingDuck> You coming in January Amber?
<akgraner> ashams, back to your question - just create either an appendix or New Chapter
<akgraner> it's a quick fix no matter how we decide to incorporate and use them. :-)  thank you for being willing to work on this part
<akgraner> DarkwingDuck, yep
<akgraner> Hoping my talk will get picked up
<DarkwingDuck> akgraner: woot!
<akgraner> I am submitting a few....
<ashams> akgraner: thanks, I'll create a list of cases on 2-3 next days then start working on them
<akgraner> too many ideas :-) I want to talk about
<akgraner> ashams, great!  thank you and I'll CC you on the email and tell people you are the POC but that they an drop in here or the mailing list etc  - but sometimes just having a POC makes people feel easier with submissions etc
<akgraner> some people will want to talk about things but may not want their name associated with the problem
<akgraner> so they will have to know if they ask for confidentially that it will be respected
<akgraner> (not saying you wouldn't - just mentioning you may get/see some of that)
<ashams> np at all, it will be fully respected and handled with care, would you please hint for this in the email?
<ashams> just mention that they can reply privately whenever needed
<akgraner> will do :-)
<ashams> thanks
<NRWlion> hey there
<NRWlion> akgraner: ping
<Darkwing> Disney has formally requested that I stop using the trademarked name DarkwingDuck.
<akgraner> ha your first cease and desist go you!
<Darkwing> :D
<valorie> did they write you a letter or something?
<valorie> geez
<Darkwing> They called me.
<Cheesehead> The standard used to be consumer confusion (see Apple Records v. Apple Computer)
<Cheesehead> If you're simply using the name as an online alias, they are just bullying and have no real standing.
<Cheesehead> (I am not licensed to practice law in Califonria)
<valorie> indeed -- how are you making money from it?
<valorie> you aren't
<valorie> that said, you have a family and probably don't want to risk legal action
<valorie> ugh
<Darkwing> Darkwing isn't trademarked and so I'm using it.
<Darkwing> :D
<Cheesehead> Have them mail you a letter, then forward it to your favorite TV stations.
<Darkwing> LOL
<Cheesehead> ...purely for the entertainment value, of course.
<Darkwing> Nope.. I dont' want to be a pain.
<Cheesehead> Drat. I was going to make you into *real* trademark-defying logo.
 * Cheesehead hits the delete key
<akgraner> rebels!
<akgraner> :-P
<valorie> against the unholy corporate DRM alliance?
<valorie> YEAH
 * Darkwing sighs
<Darkwing> This nick is everywhere.
<Darkwing> GPG, SSH, Wow...
 * Cheesehead debates changing his nick to ScroogeMcDuck
<Cheesehead> Or perhaps ScroogeMcDuck{$obscenity}
 * Cheesehead decides to stick to TheHamburglar
<Cheesehead> What about DarkwingDuckNotTheDisneyOne ?
<Cheesehead> Okay, I'm dropping it.
<Darkwing> LOL!!!
<knome> DarkwingGoose?
<Darkwing> I wonder if I need to do something with darkwingduck.org....
<Cheesehead> Yes, offer to sell it.
<knome> for $10 billion.
<Darkwing> XD
<Cheesehead> Honestly, you need change nothing. From your (limited) description, the trademark holders must prove they attempted to enforce it. But they are very unlikely to sue - you are making no money from the trademarked phrase, and there is no consumer confusion
<Cheesehead> So they did what they must.
<Cheesehead> But that doesn;t mean you must do what they want.
<Cheesehead> Sleep tonight unworried by this. It will make a great party story someday, and very likely no more.
<Cheesehead> Conversely, they have much to lose.
<Darkwing> Or, I can just change and be a the nice guy :)
<Darkwing> I've actually changed 99% of everything already.
<Cheesehead> If they hire you, it would be cheaper than suing you...
 * Cheesehead admits it's easy to be aggressive if your'e not the one staring at an open-ended lawsuit from a multi-billion-dollar corporation 
 * Cheesehead would probably do exactly what Darkwing is doing
<Darkwing> hehehe. They didn't threaten me. They actually kinda requested that I change.
<Darkwing> Hopy crud!
<Darkwing> Steve Jobs is dead.
 * Cheesehead offers a respectful moment of silence
<akgraner> Steve Jobs Dies: Apple Chief Created Personal Computer, iPad, iPod - http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/steve-jobs-apple-ceo-dies/story?id=14383813
<Darkwing> Say waht you want about methodoligy... He was a true visionary.
<akgraner> that he was!
<knome> huh
<akgraner> http://www.apple.com/
#ubuntu-leadership 2011-10-06
<NRWlion> good morning from rainy germany
<NRWlion> anybody out there?
<YoBoY> hi NRWlion
<YoBoY> feeling alone ? ^^
<YoBoY> hi everyone :)
<NRWlion> YoBoY: indeed i do
<NRWlion> :-(
<YoBoY> what ?
 * valorie passes out beverages and a cheery hello to all
 * YoBoY hugs valorie
<valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}} back
<NRWlion> hey valorie
<valorie> hi
<valorie> I feel like I'm so behind.....
<valorie> haven't helped out on the doc for like a week.....
<NRWlion> valorie: we do have a section on the ubuntu-forums now ;)
<valorie> cool -- when I looked it was empty
<valorie> I tend to use forums when the bots tell me there is a question which needs a response
<valorie> I wish *buntu had such bots
<NRWlion> valorie: Cheesehead and I have put up two threads
<NRWlion> and i am working on a blog post about leadership
<valorie> that's awesome
<valorie> I've been thinking about one as well
<NRWlion> ok, the post is ready ... but still in german ^^ now comes the difficult part in translating :D
<NRWlion> valorie: are you there?
<NRWlion> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pGgeqjSloKN2hTlH4bq__yWHP8kCmNrxY_3kxDk6lho/edit?hl=de << for those of you who do need a little literature for the moment ;)
<NRWlion> gotta go
<NRWlion> cu laters!
<NRWlion> evening
<NRWlion> akgraner & Cheesehead ping
<NRWlion> Darkwing: ping ;)
<Darkwing> NRWlion: pong
<NRWlion> could you spare some minutes for me?
<NRWlion> i wrote a comment on leadership basing on my experience
<Darkwing> Sure, I have a couple before I have to run.
<NRWlion> Darkwing: i will send you a link to a google doc
<Darkwing> NRWlion: Thanks
<NRWlion> Darkwing: look pm pls ... would love to hear your opinion
<valorie> NRWlion: did you want editing, or just reading?
<NRWlion> valorie: reading is enough
<valorie> ok
<NRWlion> it is not going to be published
<valorie> why?
<NRWlion> Darkwing: canceled it
<valorie> hmmm, I see
 * Cheesehead reads
<valorie> sometimes I do rant a bit and then not publish
<valorie> it helps to get the thoughts expressed
<valorie> later you can make something positive out of it
<Cheesehead> valorie: +1
<Darkwing> One thing as a note when writing documents. I'm thinking it would be a good idea to stay away from point out other teams as we are trying to be a generic leadership help, training and molding. Naming or pointing out other teams can become a very slippery slope.
<NRWlion> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pGgeqjSloKN2hTlH4bq__yWHP8kCmNrxY_3kxDk6lho/edit?hl=de <<< cheesehead this is the topic
<NRWlion> feel like i am misunderstood but who cares?
<Cheesehead> I care
<Cheesehead> We care
<Cheesehead> Or we wouldn't take the time
<NRWlion> your suggestions Cheesehead?
<Cheesehead> I'll PM my feedback to you in a moment
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: i am in bed already
<Cheesehead> Then perhaps later. Sleep well.
<NRWlion> howlong does it take for ur feedback?
<Darkwing> GARG! Setting up my new laptop for a Android Devel platform takes longer then I remember.
#ubuntu-leadership 2011-10-07
<NRWlion> morning
<YoBoY> bonjour
<akgraner> hi all - sorry I haven't been around much these last few days
<akgraner> kids schedules are nuts at the moment
<knome> schedules made of nuts? tasty!
<Cheesehead> kome: +1
<akgraner> :-)
<akgraner> CC elections are under way - Just updated my WIki page :-)
<akgraner> this is kinda exciting
<YoBoY> I already voted :)
<akgraner> YoBoY, yay!  Thanks for taking the time to do so :-)
<akgraner> I forgot to update my wiki so I just did that then voted :-)
<Cheesehead> charlie-tca: When you have time, are you now able to log into Brainstorm?
<Cheesehead> I have that checked off my list as done, but not confirmed
<charlie-tca> I haven't tried. I got a message from Nicolas asking if I am using brainstorm to login, which seemed ridiculous, since your message said I could not even log in to brainstorm.
<charlie-tca> I haven't answered him yet
<Cheesehead> I defer to nand on technical issues. If there was a discrepancy, he was probably correct.
<Cheesehead> During the final days before release, I certainly understand why this would be a quite low-priority issue for you!
<akgraner> Cheesehead, it's nice to see the TB is still reviewing the top Brainstorm ideas for each month
<akgraner> and that developers are looking at those ideas :-)
<akgraner> cprofitt, good luck!
<cprofitt> thanks
<cprofitt> you as well
<akgraner> thanks :-)
<Cheesehead> akgraner: Well, I did need to poke them...and only five of the ten got responded to...and they missed one whole cycle back in June. But (laughs) I doubt I could do any bettere, so *yes, I am happy about it*
<akgraner> we pull the top 1-5 each week just to highlight those ideas
<akgraner> we=UWN
<Cheesehead> I was so happy the week there were none to pull. We changed the moderation to weed out a bunch of stuff specifically to make the TBs job easier and get better-quality ideas through to them.
<Cheesehead> (Success)
<Cheesehead> That's why I'm still happy with 5/10. They are *good* ideas for the most part
<Cheesehead> Instead of bugs
<NRWlion> hey there
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: ping
<akgraner> Cheesehead, yay!
<NRWlion> akgraner: afternoon from rainy germany
<NRWlion> :D
<NRWlion> had any chance working my article (which isnt acceptable i know already ;) )
<akgraner> NRWlion, I'm sorry I should have gotten back to you  sooner
<akgraner> I like your article
<akgraner> Are you submitting it in German or English?
<akgraner> I think you have some great points
<akgraner> I'll add some comments for you...
<akgraner> working on an Ada Lovelace post right this second though
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: pong. One moment, let me PM you here...
<akgraner> today is Ada Lovelace Day   - http://findingada.com/
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: feel free
<NRWlion> a see ^^
<NRWlion> akgraner: i just wrote down my thoughts as my "experience" reaches back for 2 - 4 years now
<NRWlion> have had a read about many academic literatures and thought it might be a good way to point it out =(
<akgraner> NRWlion, your thoughts are really good
<NRWlion> akgraner: tell it to cheese and Darkwing ;)
<NRWlion> cprofitt: hey there
<NRWlion> cprofitt: could you spare a moment for pm?
<cprofitt> sure
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: I agree with akgraner. Your thoughts are really good. I normally question assumptions and pick around the edges...from me, that's the sign of a sound idea. I kick it a little to se how it wobbles.
 * Cheesehead steps out a moment to help eldest daughter paint a halloween costume
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: see you in a bit. going for a championship game tonight
<NRWlion> akgraner: btw i have no place where to submit it ... =(
<NRWlion> akgraner: you ensured me a testimonial the day before yesterday ... havent seen it yet on my list
<ashams> Guys, would you please help me to settle a date for Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day!: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UCADay
<ashams> ?
<ashams> what you think should it be once or twice a year or free at any time?
<akgraner> once a year...
<akgraner> there are so many other ubuntu days weeks etc
<ashams> yeah, i prefer this too
<charlie-tca> We have more than enough things that happen every 6 months, tied to the release cycles
<ashams> but what about the date?
<ashams> 17 sept, 20 oct ?
<akgraner> one sec
<charlie-tca> November is pretty open after the first week
<ashams> charlie-tca: that's a new nomination then :)
<charlie-tca> October is full of Ubuntu User Week, Ubuntu DeveloperWeek, Ubuntu apps developer week, etc
<charlie-tca> also getting ready for UDS, and planning stuff for the next release
<ashams> when will be the uds?
<charlie-tca> What do we do in November besides a week for UDS?
<ashams> aha
<charlie-tca> First week of November
<ashams> we need to set a date just to avoid that ppl will get confused
<ashams> we want them to wait for it every year
<ashams> like a feast
<Cheesehead> ...or tax filings.
 * Cheesehead is embarrassed he said that out loud. He meant to stay quiet. Apologies
<ashams> :D oh i forgot about that
<ashams> Cheesehead: is welcome anytime anywhere :)
<charlie-tca> I would hope we look at the busiest months and avoid them for anything else we can. We have two or three months a year right now that are super busy.
<ashams> you mean, sept, oct & nov, right?
<YoBoY> avoid september, october, november, march, april and may
<charlie-tca> Thank you, YoBoY
<charlie-tca> ashams: releases cycles happen two times a year, thus so does almost everything else.
<akgraner> august is our b/c of vacations etc
<akgraner> out
<charlie-tca> two months of setting up the new release, two months of final release, two times for each week of sessions in classroom
<akgraner> I like November - 3rd or 4th week
<charlie-tca> Me too
<ashams> but shouldn't be somehow related to something in Ubuntu history?
<charlie-tca> We need a week after UDS to rest, and then everyone is around again hitting the new release.
<akgraner> I help moderate all these weeks in as part of backstage - so does pleia2 and nigelb and cjohnston etc
<akgraner> and Pendulum and others
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> and the more that gets piled into those few weeks/months of activity, the less response you get
<akgraner> charlie-tca, +1 a week to deal with UDS "hangovers" and get some rest
<charlie-tca> ashams: the very first release was 4.10, which released in October, so the next release started in November. That is a tie in
<YoBoY> i exclude november beacause of the after uds break and the thanlsgiving preparation and the release parties in progress everywhere
<charlie-tca> 5.04 was considered the first "everyone can use this" release, wasn't it?
<ashams> charlie-tca: nice, warty was released on oct 20th, can we just take a month after?
<charlie-tca> If I have this all screwed up, feel free to say so, but I think the more that gets piled into the same times, the less response you will see.
<charlie-tca> ashams: sounds like a good plan to me
<akgraner> +1 from me
<charlie-tca> and, yes, it might catch some flak because of the American Thanksgiving holiday that will fall close to that some years.
<ashams> great, i love that
<ashams> so, can someone help me by entering it into the fridge
<akgraner> sure...I can do that
<ashams> akgraner: what does it need to be announced on UWN
<ashams> thanks
<akgraner> Just blog about it and point me to the link
<ashams> great, will do it very soon, thanks
<akgraner> Once you blog about the details  - I'll add it to the fridge and link your post and wiki page in the event details sections
<charlie-tca> Would have been nice if they planned everything from the start, but it really happened kind of by guessing a lot until now
<ashams> charlie-tca: there's not much to plan again, in fact the date was the most important point
<charlie-tca> Great! Glad you got one, then
<akgraner> charlie-tca, which "they" and what "everything"  You confused me?  (which is easy to do - heck I confuse me some days)
<ashams> haha :)
<charlie-tca> "they" who started way back in 2004 who never actually planned much until they got together at a date determined a month prior to plan the next release
<ashams> Now clear
<charlie-tca> All of us who started after that first release knew UDS would be two times a year, but never knew when until about a month before it happened
<charlie-tca> We used to plan things as "between 4 and 7 months after the last one"
<ashams> Thank you all, akgraner charlie-tca YoBoY Cheesehead and ashams, that's the UCADay soul :)
<charlie-tca> You're welcome
<YoBoY> yw :)
<charlie-tca> I really thank akgraner for the much more definite scheduling now. You can pretty much plan things these days.
<akgraner> charlie-tca, I just become a pain about the calendar :-)
<akgraner> speaking of events
<akgraner> does anyone here want to give a session for open week?
<YoBoY> not me, sorry
<Cheesehead> I never know what session to do, I always waver between "They won't want to know that" and "Everybody already knows that".
<Cheesehead> So I stick to small-group discussions, mostinly in the LoCo.
 * Cheesehead has decided to create the word "mostinly" and adds a dictionary entry
<akgraner> hahaha
<philipballew> hey akgraner when is a good time to go over the spreadsheet with you?
<akgraner> um good question
<akgraner> Can we shoot for Tuesday
<akgraner> I'll be at a Band Competition most of the day tomorrow, Sunday I'll be out and Monday my kids are out of school so it will be limited time on my computer
<philipballew> alright. I need to find a good day off school. I get off work Tuesday at 5. Band. Nice. I remember when I was a few years younger my parents would spend all day or some Saturdays going to school events to watch me and my brother.
<akgraner> I was a band geek myself - so now I am a crazy band parent
<akgraner> who is of course in charge of our band boosters
 * Cheesehead gets out his clipboard
<philipballew> nice! i play the drums. thats about it. what interments do they play?
<akgraner> My daughter is in colorguard - but plays guitar and sings
<akgraner> my son plays trombone..
<Darkwing> Hmmz, This isn't good.
<philipballew> whats wrong Darkwing
<Darkwing> I changed my primary email two days ago and it finally stopped sending to old email address this morning... But it totally stopped. It's not sending to the new email address.
<akgraner> Darkwing, what's wrong
<akgraner> oh
<akgraner> rut roh
 * Cheesehead gets out his clipboard again
<Cheesehead> Time for me to get serious about recriting trainers and assistants for the IRC workshops.
<Cheesehead> If anyone has a suggestion for a skill not on the list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership/Projects#Skill_and_Trainer_List, please let me know. This is just the beginning (one hopes).
<Cheesehead> Skill: Understanding the three languages people use to communicate: Feeling/Power/Meaning
<Cheesehead> Valorie: Interested perhaps in facilitating ^ ?
<Cheesehead> Or can anyone recommend a good facilitator for the topic?
<Cheesehead> If you're generally interested in the topic and willing to help (a good shill is a treasure!), sign up as a Volunteer.
<Cheesehead> Er, Assistant
<Darkwing> If my email isn't turned back on in a couple hours... I'm not goign to be happy.
<Cheesehead> Darkwing: let the Duck loose to cause mayhem again!
 * Cheesehead plans to ask DarwinSurvivor to facilitate the Project Management tools session
<Cheesehead> There we go. I'll work a couple today, a couple tomorrow. See if I can get a plan and scheule in place well ahead of target.
 * Cheesehead puts the clipboard away
<akgraner> remember openweek starts in less than 10 days...can you talk to some folks about giving sessions there too  - just have them ping me or jcastro
<akgraner> I'll be back in about an hour - kid time...
<akgraner> I'm a taxi for  few
<philipballew> have fun! :)
 * YoBoY have volunteers to recruit for November 
<Cheesehead> Huh. The Open Week schedule does still seem a bit sprse. I will happily fill some of the void if needed. A topic, however, eludes me at the moment.
<Cheesehead> And that's kind of important!
<Cheesehead> Everybody Loves Simutrans? No, that's silly. Not everybody does.
<NRWlion> re
<akgraner> Cheesehead, what about brainstorm
<akgraner> we haven't had a brainstorm session on the agenda in a while
<akgraner> I am sure some new users have never even been to the site and don't know how it can benefit them
<NRWlion> a) what agenda , b) what time and c) am i needed for that?
<akgraner> NRWlion, I think they discussing Cheesehead leaderhip training stuff - but I'm trying to talk Cheesehead into giving a Brainstorm session for Open Week
<NRWlion> kk
<NRWlion> akgraner: maybe you and Cheesehead should have a talk about what Cheesehead and i developed earlier
<akgraner> well you and Cheesehead could - NRWlion since it was what you all worked on..:-)
<akgraner> I usually don't give sessions during those weeks b/c I help behind the scenes
<valorie> I'll look at the dates and my calendar
<valorie> right now, plate is full
<akgraner> valorie, thank you - I am sure you have a dozen things you could talk about
<akgraner> check out openweek - time slipped away from so we'll be scrambling last minute to get some session leaders in
<akgraner> valorie, I understand that - you are a busy lady!
<valorie> indeed, but I'm headed to the Googleplex for Doc Camp and the Mentor Summit
<akgraner> Yeah - I joked with a couple google people about teaching a trolling session
<akgraner> how to spot nice trolls
<valorie> won't be at UDS, so not quite so busy that week -- although staying current via IRC and streaming is rather ....
<akgraner> and how to troll a troll etc
<valorie> my favorite topic so far is the session I did on the Zen of Conflict
<akgraner> you know stuff from my "Country fried trolling" talk
<valorie> everyone is so afraid of it
<akgraner> conflict handled correctly brings about amazing things
<akgraner> but yeah I know - "conflict" is not generally thought of as something postitive
<NRWlion> akgraner: do you have a mail adress for me? then i could send you the stuff if Cheesehead agrees?
<akgraner> sure...akgraner@ubuntu.com
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: are you fine with that?
<valorie> once people realize that it's energy, I think it gets a bit less scary
 * Cheesehead sees his name and scrolls back...
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: i just asked if you give permission for me to send akgraner a mail with our conversation
<Cheesehead> akgraner: I can do Brainstorm for Open Week....As long as it's known in advance that the old expectaions of Brainstorm bringing world peace through community voting are a daydream...and I'm the wake-up call.
<akgraner> :-)
<akgraner> I just wanted you to let people know the ends and outs and encourage them to use it :-)
<Cheesehead> Certainly.
<akgraner> I've seen people putting in ideas that should be bugs and bugs that should be brainstorm ideas recently
<akgraner> and a little of both on Ask Ubuntu
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: Feel free to share our conversation. Nothing private there.
<akgraner> so I thought it might be a good opportunity to go over brainstorm and set some expectations etc
<akgraner> and encourage more people to get involved
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: copy that ... akgraner will let you have a read on the logs of the brainstorm session between cheese and me
<Cheesehead> akgraner: It always rains bugs in Brainstorm. We have lots of new-user input, we need more old hands to point out that foo was already tried.
<akgraner> NRWlion, great - thank you...
<akgraner> gotcha...
<akgraner> I suck at being an idea reviewer for technical ideas
<akgraner> but I can look up duplicate and stuff
<akgraner> duplicates and stuff or get developer input on something etc
 * akgraner can hunt some people down now when I need too
<Cheesehead> We have some great dupe hunters already. Vahan and Darwin are fabulous.
<Cheesehead> More are welcome, but it may not be the most effective use of akgraner's time.
<akgraner> They are awesome
<akgraner> you have a great crew there...just let me know if there is something besides promote it's use and report stats each week
<akgraner> its even
<akgraner> dang it  - apostrophe abuse :-)
<knome> another myth busted - i thought girls never typoed
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> knome: you just hang around me too much, and I'm perfect
<knome> ah, that must be it
<pleia2> haha
<akgraner> pleia2, is like Mary Poppins - "practically perfect in every way"
<pleia2> ah, if only :)
<Cheesehead> What Brainstorm *really* needs are liasons from the other projects and teams. Somebody from, say, Unity. Not neccesarily a developer, just somebody who keeps up with the meetings and can say 'That's already roadmapped' or 'We rejected that already' or 'Cool, send us a patch'
<pleia2> Cheesehead: teams certainly look at brainstorm, but I think they fail at that feedback portion
<pleia2> and yeah, without feedback it just feels ignored
<Cheesehead> I don't know if it's fail. I want to get the word out on how they can do feedback more effectively.
<NRWlion> akgraner: how would you describe me?
<Cheesehead> Brainstorm has some cool tools for ffeedback, and the moderators will happily use them...if there's someone to use them with.
<Cheesehead> The existing Brainstorm mods can handle 90% of the submissions already. It's that last 10% that are tough.
<akgraner> NRWlion, I dunno yet - gotta be around you some more before I give you a disney character name :-)
 * akgraner looks at Darkwing and runs
<knome> NRWlion, hmm, "his nick starts and ends with an N"
 * knome runs
<Cheesehead> valorie: Is there a link to the Zen of Conflict session? I am intrigued.
<Cheesehead> pleia2: Feeling ignored is the main reason we began referring submitters directly to the appropriate team of project, and encouraging them to become more involved.
<Cheesehead> That's the other thing Brainstorm prodices - a stream of new users who want to be involved, but don't know where else to go.
 * pleia2 nods
 * Cheesehead just invented yet another new word: prodices
<Cheesehead> One of my goals here is to find beter ways of getting them involved...instead of turning them into complainers.
<NRWlion> akgraner: mail is out. have fun to read ;) its much ;) but Cheesehead and I had a very very productive session last night and earlier today
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: thx again for your thoughts! really like developing things with you because in my opinion we share the same thoughts about the topic
<valorie> hmmm, there should be, on the cls blog
<valorie> however, I never got MY notes in there
<valorie> it ended up with too many people, too many ideas, too little time
<valorie> but LOTS of energy
<valorie> and really, I only wanted people to start thinking of conflict in a new way, as a positive
<valorie> so it felt very successful
 * Darkwing snickers
<valorie> I can still feel the bubbles
<valorie> :-)
<NRWlion1> re sorry internet probs :(
<Darkwing> Still no email... This is not good to happen on a friday.
<Darkwing> Any bets on how long RT@ubuntu.com will take to respond?
<valorie> :(
<valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}} to the Darkwing
<Darkwing> :D
<NRWlion1> akgraner: did my mail come through with the attachments?
<topyli> i miss the duck
<valorie> Darkwing: may I pm?
<Darkwing> Yeah... But, Darkwing is more versitile
<Darkwing> valorie: Sure
<topyli> Darkwing: if you say so :)
<Cheesehead> NRWlion: Happy to help anytime.
<Cheesehead> I think 'Darkwing' is a much better name for effective crimefighting.
<NRWlion1> Cheesehead: if you think i could be up service. pls do not hesitate to let me know, ok?
<Cheesehead> NRWlion1: Of course.
<NRWlion1> akgraner: are you alife?
<NRWlion1> Cheesehead: ping, akgraner: ping
 * Cheesehead looks up groggily
<NRWlion1> Cheesehead: http://pastebin.com/mNmA8LRh
<Cheesehead> Point 1 should not count against a candidate. Lack of experience of the specific position should be irrelevant; else we could never elect anybody unless they already held the position...
<Cheesehead> Overall, it's a political manifesto. Interesting, but mostly opinion.
<Cheesehead> (some I agree with, some not)
<NRWlion1> that was from phillw (a mentor of mine)
<Cheesehead> This was clearly a draft, not the final product.
 * NRWlion1 nods
<NRWlion1> but i gotta go sleeping now ... having a double shift 2morrow
<NRWlion1> cu after shift 2morrow
<Cheesehead> Have a good sleep.
#ubuntu-leadership 2011-10-08
<valorie> OMG this is amazing: http://www.blogher.com/what%E2%80%99s-1-leadership-attribute
 * Cheesehead sends a monumental e-mail to close out the Brainstorm Top 10 to the appropriate mods and developers
<Cheesehead> Er, closeout this cycle only. We *want* future reviews!
<NRWlion> hey there
<NRWlion> Cheesehead: are you there?
<Cheesehead> I was...
<NRWlion> re
#ubuntu-leadership 2011-10-09
<NRWlion> hi there
<YoBoY> hi
<akgraner> Cheesehead,which of the moderators are Ubuntu Members and can post to Planet Ubuntu
<akgraner> If you want another blog on the planet to get some ideas and stuff out there - we can come up with a template - and I'll help you get the information in front on more people - (I should have offered before)
<Cheesehead> akgraner: I will need to check. komputes, probably.
<Cheesehead> I really should be come an Ubuntu member myself. It has been five years.
<akgraner> yep you should :-P
<akgraner> Cheesehead, let me know and if you want to write up stuff from me to post I can give you credit and get it on the planet for you
<Cheesehead> akgraner: Thank you. I will do that!
<YoBoY> Cheesehead: not yet member? why?
<akgraner> Wanna shoot for Wednesday's
<akgraner> Monday's I have for UWN and Leadership stuff
<akgraner> Tuesday's are for Interviews
<Cheesehead> akgraner: Wednesday it will be. Double thank you!
<akgraner> Wednesdays can be for Brainstorm articles
<akgraner> :-)
<akgraner> Cheesehead, and if you need a testimonial for you wiki let me know
<Cheesehead> YoBoY: Nobody tells me what clubs I should/shouldn't be in.
<Cheesehead> (Er, I meant that in a nice way?)
<akgraner> jeez you should be an Ubuntu member...(I just told you :-p)
<Cheesehead> akgraner: Thanks. I will also put together a wiki page...
 * Cheesehead ducks out for a few minutes
<akgraner> :-)  YAY \o/
<akgraner> (about the wiki not about you ducking out)
<YoBoY> Cheesehead: member is not a club, is just a way to motivate you write a wiki page and show us what you had done, and you can have a beautiful cloak on irc too and an email alias and vote for akgraner to be a CC member  ^^"
<akgraner> YoBoY :-)  I like how you explain that...
<YoBoY> ;)
<Cheesehead> YoBoY: No offense meant. Agreed, the resources available to members are worth the effort to obtain membership. That
<Cheesehead> YoBoY: No offense meant. Agreed, the resources available to members are worth the effort to obtain membership. That's why I plan to apply. I suspect d'accord.
<Cheesehead> Whew. Interval sprints hurt at 20. They hurt just as bad at 40.
<ashams> akgraner: I blogged about UCADay :) http://ashams.iblogger.org/archives/84
<akgraner> thanks we'll get it added
<akgraner> I'll work on UWN later tonight
<ashams> akgraner: thanks :)
<akgraner> I just have company this weekend  - so once everyone settles down for the evening I'll start work on it
<NRWlion1> akgraner: if you want to have my article for the uwn ... Mohi aka IAmNotThatGuy offered a place in his blog to publish my article about the leadership
<ashams> Ø¸Ø©Ø« ÙØ³ ÙØ§Ø´Ø¤Ù
 * ashams is back
<NRWlion1> wb and bye ;)
<NRWlion1> gotta go and get some sleep before tomorrows 12 hrs shift for the week ;)
<Cheesehead> YoBoY, akgraner: You guys talkem te into applying for Ubuntu Membership. Wiki Page created. E-mail and G+ sent. Target Membership Board meeting 1 November, 2000 UTC
<valorie> weeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!
<valorie> I asked for Kubuntu membership after less than a year (or so)
<valorie> got it, too
<valorie> :-)
<Cheesehead> Whats 3-4 years between friends?
<Cheesehead> valorie: I'm still hoping to convince you sign up as a trainer on Item #1 at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership/Projects#Skill_and_Trainer_List
<charlie-tca> Good luck, Cheesehead
<Cheesehead> charlie-tca: Thank you.
