#kubuntu-devel 2009-12-28
<Quintasan> Riddell: added my report of state of webkitkde but it will need more testing
<Quintasan> I checked most "web 2.0" sites
<Quintasan> as well as regular sites like blogs etc.
<shtylman> ScottK: in not finding that on the website...
<Riddell> Quintasan: what do you need my guidance on?
<shtylman> life
<shtylman> we are lost without you.. fearless leader :)
<Quintasan> lol
<Riddell> oh that's easy. get into free software, Quakerism and canoeing.  you can't go wrong.
<shtylman> hahha
<shtylman> step 4: profit
<Quintasan> Riddell: oh that was just and example :P
<Quintasan> well if it's not Riddell who get's asked about many things everyday the who would it be ? :P
<Riddell> Quintasan: did calibri get uploaded?
<Quintasan> Beats me.
<Quintasan> Lex79: ^^
<Lex79> Quintasan: thanks :)
<Lex79> Riddell: can you upload? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=7224
<Lex79> thanks
<Riddell> can do
<Riddell> s/KDE4/KDE 4/
<Lex79> ooops
 * Riddell removes redudant name in description
<Lex79> thx
<Riddell> the kcm is missing Messages.sh
<JontheEchidna> pgquiles: Haven't seen any of that yet, personally. Would you happen to know of something that broke?
<Lex79> we should poke agateau for that
<pgquiles> JontheEchidna: I've backported 4:4.6.0-1ubuntu5 to Karmic and the Phonon-Xine backend no longer works due to unresolved symbols
<Riddell> Lex79: I can e-mail him
<pgquiles> it used to work with the backport of 4:4.6.0-1ubuntu1
<Lex79> Riddell: ok
<JontheEchidna> pgquiles: have a log that shows which symbol is failing to be resolved?
<pgquiles> JontheEchidna: give me a minute to boot that computer again
<Lex79> Riddell: for that: " debian/copyright misses Canonical Ltd  ", copyright holder is not Canonical
<Lex79> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Colibri?content=117147
<Lex79> " Colibri contains code I wrote for Canonical, but it is not a Canonical product. "
<Riddell> "code I wrote for Canonical" means it's copyright Canonical for aurelian, the file headers confirm this
<Lex79> ok
<pgquiles> JontheEchidna: kcmshell4: symbol lookup error: usr/lib/qt4/plugins/phonon_backend/phonon_xine.so: undefined symbol: _ZN9QHashData13detach_helperEPFvPNS_4NodeEPvEPFvS1_Ei
<JontheEchidna> Looks like something was built against Qt 4.6 beta
<JontheEchidna> there was a binary incompatible change between 4.6 beta and 4.6 RC1 in QHashData
<JontheEchidna> QMap too, I think.
<pgquiles> JontheEchidna: yes, thiago blogged about that
<pgquiles> JontheEchidna: I think the problem is phonon-backends 4:4.3.1-5ubuntu3~karmic1~ppa1
<pgquiles> I'm getting it from some kubuntu PPA, I think
<pgquiles> let me check
<JontheEchidna> ah, probably kubuntu-ppa/experimental
<JontheEchidna> which I think had 4.6 beta
<pgquiles> yes
<pgquiles> that's the problem
<pgquiles> 4.6.0 rc1
<pgquiles> but looking at the publishing dates, that phonon-backends package was built against tp1
<JontheEchidna> I think there's a newer version in kubuntu-ppa/beta for the KDE SC 4.4
<JontheEchidna> I'll just delete that one in experimental
<pgquiles> JontheEchidna: there's phonon backends 4.3.80 for KDE 4.4 but that's too big of a change for now for production :-)
<pgquiles> I'm going to rebuild phonon backends 4.3.1-5ubuntu3~karmic1~ppa1 in my PPA against 4.6.0 final
<shtylman> what do you guys do when you need to make a patch against an image file? does that patch still go in the debian patches folder?
<JontheEchidna> you could repack the tarball with the new image included
<shtylman> heh
<shtylman> so no patch solution for images :)
<JontheEchidna> right, there's not really a way for binary file patching
<shtylman> woa... I just tried to do debuild in something that I am tracking with git... I don't think it liked it...
<shtylman> dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to kdebase-workspace-4.3.2/.git/objects/7c/b7134bd1dd97c682279cbae987f1cf114b03a5: binary file contents changed
<pgquiles> shtylman: debuild -S -sa -I.git -i.git and forget about the .orig.tar.gz, it makes no sense for a moving target
<shtylman> thanks
<shtylman> dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to kdebase-workspace-4.3.2/plasma/applets/battery/battery-oxygen.svgz: binary file contents changed
<shtylman> and I don't want a source only build
<shtylman> :)
<pgquiles> steveire: rm kdebase-workspace_4.3.2.orig.tar.gz
<pgquiles> err
<pgquiles> shtylman:
<shtylman> will do
<shtylman> hehe
<shtylman> pgquiles: thanks... that seems to have done it :)
<pgquiles> that way you'll get a single kdebase-workspace_4.3.2.tar.gz which includes the .orig.tar.gz and the .diff.gz
<shtylman> just trying to make a new version of workspace with my battery icon patch
<shtylman> so do we know if we keep the kde source (wth debian folder) somewhere in version control?
<pgquiles> shtylman: AFAIK the KDE source is not under revision control but the debian folder is
<shtylman> yea...I found the debian folder
<shtylman> would be nice to have the kde stuff under version control then I can just commit on top and keep rebasing
<shtylman> without making patches
<pgquiles> shtylman: svn.kde.org is your friend
<shtylman> indeed it is... I already have the trunk checked out
<shtylman> but I also like to make packages for cleaner install
<pgquiles> shtylman: take the would-be KDE 4.4 packages from kubuntu-ppa
<pgquiles> it's 4.3.85 IIRC
<ScottK> shtylman: It may not have been imported yet.
<shtylman> k
<dhillon-v10> bddebian, hi :D
<bddebian> Hello dhillon-v10
<dhillon-v10> bddebian, how are you, and how was Christmas
<bddebian> OK thanks.  Christmas was good thanks.  You?
<dhillon-v10> bddebian, pretty good slept a lot
<dhillon-v10> bddebian, i am making a ppa and the .deb files are like 2.4 kbs, while the orig is like 43 mgs. why would that be, here's my directory structure:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/347784/
<bddebian> The debs are empty?
<dhillon-v10> yah, why is that happening, could it be because of debian/rules file
<dhillon-v10> bddebian, are you there ?
<ScottK> dhillon-v10: That's really off topic for this channel.  Please take the conversation elsewhere.
<dhillon-v10> ScottK, okay
<shtylman> so I patched the battery icon a bit
<shtylman> http://apt.shtylman.com/stuff/battery.png
<shtylman> changed the color for ciritical battery level
<shtylman> and turned it sideways
<shtylman> I think the sideways looks a bit better
<ScottK> Is it only sideways when it's critical?
<shtylman> haha no
<shtylman> that would be funny
<shtylman> its always sideways
<shtylman> I just took a screencap of the critical level :)
<shtylman> I think it works better in a bar orientation like that... but im still playing with it
<shtylman> I also changed how it displays the various power levels
<shtylman> so it gives you more granularity
<shtylman> versus the segmented bar thing it has now
<shtylman> with just 4 power bars
<shtylman> mine has 10 levels
<shtylman> and they arn't broken up
<shtylman> so it looks more continuous
<shtylman> anyone know how to clear the plasma icon cache?
<ScottK> shtylman: Maybe rm -f ~/.kde/cache-*/kpc/plasma* (untested, so beware)
<shtylman> yea
<shtylman> I did that
<shtylman> I need to refresh my desktop somehow
<shtylman> that works for new plasmoids I start
<shtylman> but not for ones I have
 * shtylman is very pleased with his new battery :)
<shtylman> icon looks much prettier now
<shtylman> http://apt.shtylman.com/stuff/battery2.png
<shtylman> nixternal: kubuntu slideshow has been merged into trunk
<shtylman> now to wait for packages to be approved
<ghostcube> ehlo :)
<ghostcube> anyone using TB 3.0 and is missing xpunge ?
<ghostcube> the dev from project gave me the info 0.40 for TB 3.0 is online
<ghostcube> on his webpage
<freeflying> ghostcube: TB? thunderbird?
<ghostcube> yeah
<freeflying> ghostcube: then suppose most of us here are using kmail
<freeflying> ghostcube: wrong channel for you :)
<ulysses__> ;)
<ghostcube> nah :) just an suggestion
<ghostcube> heh
<hunger> When will nepomuk finally work in kubuntu? The virtuozzo backend thing should solve the java issues, doesn't it?
<Riddell> we need an FAQ about this
<maco> hehehe
<Riddell> hunger: we're waiting on a new virtuoso release, the current one doesn't work with nepomuk
<hunger> Oh, great:-(
<hunger> Is it easy to move the existing nepomuk db to virtuozzo?
 * hunger is using some sesame backend right now or something.
<Riddell> I don't know
<hunger> Too bad.
<Riddell> I expect it's done magically, it was with the move to soprano
<hunger> That would be great. Well, I'll just wait and see.
<hunger> Sorry for repeating a question.
<jtechidna> our sesame backend doesn't work at the moment. might be too old since it's in a separate package
<hunger> JontheEchidna: I have that on one of my boxes only and use that one rarely. Haven't even noticed it to be broken yet.
<JontheEchidna> with kde 4.4?
<JontheEchidna> oh, I probably haven't set up that java symlink business
<JontheEchidna> no luck, can't get it to work here
<hunger> JontheEchidna: I am not sure whether it (still) works for me. It did a while back, but I hardly ever use nepomuk, so it might be broken for me too.
<hunger> JontheEchidna: Can't get to the machine right now... christmas vacation ... so I can not check.
<DaskrEEch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=508048#104
<ubottu> Debian bug 508048 in wnpp "ITP: virtuoso-opensource -- OpenLink Virtuoso Open-Source Edition" [Wishlist,Open]
<JontheEchidna> hmm.. I wonder what/where that tiny KDE patch is
<nixternal> ScottK: setting up the server now
<DaskrEEch> JontheEchidna: That would be on trueg's part I suspect
<DaskrEEch> Very unfond of Notifications on Kubuntu currently
<jussi01> DaskrEEch: +1 (and that might just annoy you some more :P)
 * DaskrEEch expected that from eviljussi01 
<jussi01> DaskrEEch: naah, eviljussi01 is only evil cause he uses irssi
<nixternal> this mac will not boot off of any ppc iso I throw at it...trying USB stick now, but I doubt that will work...usb-creator !work
<ScottK> nixternal: I doubt Lucid will work for install/boot, but I think Jaunty or Karmic should be OKish.
<ghostcube> on G4 with rage 128 none of all boots so far on ppc ... i need to get another radeon mac edition somewhere
<ghostcube> *G3
<nixternal> trying jaunty, as the karmic image is to big
<nixternal> and this thing only has a cdrom
<nixternal> booyah!
<Tm_T> nixternal: you can overburn it
<nixternal> I had to burn with windows 7
<nixternal> Tm_T: to big for overburn
<Tm_T> nixternal: oh? karmic ppc image?
<nixternal> yup
<Tm_T> hmh, what did I burn then...
<Tm_T> can't remember, cannot check, sorry
<nixternal> ppc d-i has a red background...I thought something was broke
<Quintasan> DAMN
<Riddell> uh oh
<Tm_T> Quintasan: no, it's seele
<Quintasan> wait, what?
 * Quintasan is pissed at Ubuntu for failing to find his external HDD
<Quintasan> [85176.234451] hub 2-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 8
<Quintasan> :/
<Tm_T> that's not nice
<DaskrEEch> Probably shouldn't keep /home on an external device
<jjesse> thats a bad thing
<Quintasan> DaskrEEch: you do that?
 * jussi01 is annoyed at ubuntu for breaking his TV card driver... had to go back to the previous kernel iteration
<DaskrEEch> Other than having your groove session for work missing I'm trying to figure out why not finding a device would raise ire levels to pissed
<DaskrEEch> JontheEchidna: no one seems to know I"mma mail the dude and find out
<JontheEchidna> !find /usr/lib/kde4/plasma_applet_container.so
<ubottu> Package/file /usr/lib/kde4/plasma_applet_container.so does not exist in karmic
<JontheEchidna> !find /usr/lib/kde4/plasma_applet_container.so lucid
<ubottu> Package/file /usr/lib/kde4/plasma_applet_container.so does not exist in lucid
<DaskrEEch> Kopete seems to slowly eat a lot of memory
<Quintasan> JontheEchidna: are you using two screen setup?
<JontheEchidna> nope
<Quintasan> LOL
<JontheEchidna> ?
<Quintasan> MichaÅ ZajÄc (Quintasan), MichaÅ ZajÄc (lrzgranados) is now following you on Twitter
<Quintasan> 8D
<JontheEchidna> heh
<Quintasan> I was like "Lol how can I follow myself on Twitter?"
<DaskrEEch> Quintasan: what you should do is get a script that reposts things that you are said to you on twitter then post one that says @quintasan Go!
<Quintasan> That would grant me an insta-perma-ban on Twitter probably :P
 * Quintasan is struck by banhammer
#kubuntu-devel 2009-12-29
<EagleScreen> hi
<EagleScreen> you could consider an amarok 2.2.2 package for Kubuntu karmic + KDE 4.3.4, i have built it sucessfully
<Riddell> EagleScreen: isn't the latest 2.2.1.90 ?
<EagleScreen> it depends in kde 4.3.85
<EagleScreen> most people do not want to install kde 4.3.85
<EagleScreen> it is as it had be built for lucid
<EagleScreen> i have just rebuilt the same package agains a karmic chroot and it works
<Riddell> the trouble is we don't have a suitable PPA, and people get confused by the number of PPAs we have already
<EagleScreen> i think it should go in beta-backports
<Riddell> beta backports has KDE 4.4 beta in it
<EagleScreen> ups
<EagleScreen> then in kubuntu backports ppa
<EagleScreen> when it reaches final 2.2.2 may be
<Riddell> yes that would be ok
<Riddell> or even real backports
<EagleScreen> but i do not understand why it depends on kde 4.3.85 if it is suposed to be built for karmic
<Riddell> it's built against the packages in the PPA
<EagleScreen> yes, i see
<EagleScreen> how do you do it?
<EagleScreen> does pbuild or soyuz support ppa "distro releases"?
<Riddell> EagleScreen: how do you mean?
<EagleScreen> how do you build a package against a PPA distro? as I know, pbuilder or soyuz only build for official releases (karmic, squeeze, hardy, unstable...)
<Riddell> you can change your sources.list in the pbuilder to include the PPA
<Riddell> and when uploading to the PPA it'll build against the packages in the PPA
<nixternal> EagleScreen: you don't build against the ppa, the package can leverage other packages in the ppa for build depends...
<EagleScreen> okay, then, you add your ppa to pbuilder config for karmic
<EagleScreen> then if you run a sudo pbuilder update, is karmic updated with ppa packages or what?
<EagleScreen> if I had kde packages 4.5.85 in my ppa, will soyuz build amarok for kdelibs 4.3.85 in place of 4.3.2 for karmic?
<Riddell> EagleScreen: yes
<Riddell> to both
<EagleScreen> to both?
<Riddell> both questions
<EagleScreen> oh okay
<EagleScreen> need to sleep now
<EagleScreen> thanks, see you tomorrow
<crimsun> psst, it's ScottK's birthday today
* Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Merry ScottK day | Lucid Alpha 1 Released! | Kubuntu has the Doctor on the brain | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | Oustanding merges: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lucas/merges.html |Congratulations to Quintasan for becoming a MOTU
<dhillon-v10> Riddell, hi :D I am currently looking into bugzilla <-> launchpad integration task for kubuntu, would you like to give me any advice on what should I be doing? Do i need a dev account to do so
<shtylman> I wants my kubuntu menu icon back :(
<shtylman> I don't think upgrading karmic to kde4 betas was a good idea
<shtylman> something is now using 100% cpu :)
<shtylman> konversation uses 100% cpu :)
<shtylman> maybe a qt bug?
<JontheEchidna> yeah
<JontheEchidna> using monospaced font for the chatview is a workaround, iirc
<shtylman> yea that worked
<shtylman> weird
<DaskrEEch> Kopete uses 100% CPU if I mouse over it
<shtylman> JontheEchidna: has that bug been reported? or is it no longer a problem with latest kde trunk?
<JontheEchidna> It's been reported at the Qt bugtracker
<shtylman> so it is a qt thing?
<shtylman> man..I really hate the new notification crap
<JontheEchidna> yea
<shtylman> its very annoying to clear them now
<shtylman> and when many apps add notifications that little slider overflows
<shtylman> kubuntu qa widget doesn't work :(
<Quintasan> hmm anyone of you can help me a little bit with perl script for irssi?
<shtylman> don't know perl :/
<Quintasan> urgh, at least I think the problem is a regexp inside the script
<Quintasan> http://pastebin.ca/1730146
<Quintasan> :S
<shtylman> whats the problem?
<Quintasan> it says that amarok is not working while I' listening music now
<Quintasan> oh wait, actually dbus fails to get called
<Quintasan> :/
<Quintasan> Could not connect to D-Bus server: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ExecFailed: /bin/dbus-launch terminated abnormally with the following error: Autolaunch error: X11 initialization failed
<shtylman> could be a problem
<Quintasan> I wonder why, localhost works fine, when called over ssh it fails
<shtylman> do you need the -X flag to ssh?
<shtylman> for x11...
<shtylman> I dunno if your qdbus command is trying to do some gui stuff
<Quintasan> shtylman: on my local box this command just displays a string in cli
<Quintasan> shtylman: -X flag doesn't help
<shtylman> gotcha
<Quintasan> damn
<shtylman> does autologin work for anyone else in 4.4 b2?
<DaskrEEch> Isn't it -x ?
<shtylman> on another note... I like the new quadros wallpaper ...
<shtylman> digikam dies :(
<shtylman> ScottK:
<shtylman> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<shtylman>   digikam: Depends: libkdcraw8 but it is not going to be installed
<shtylman>            Depends: libkipi7 but it is not going to be installed
<shtylman> im using the beta ppa
<DaskrEEch> What's your policy for kipiplugins ?
<shtylman> ?
<DaskrEEch> apt-cache policy kipiplugins ?
<shtylman> unable to locate package
<shtylman> I just forced a few upadates...I think it just failed to upgrade some stuff
<shtylman> I still don't have kipiplugins
<ScottK> shtylman: Something didn't get rebuilt with the new kdegraphics libs.
<shtylman> ScottK: :(
<ScottK> shtylman: Force install libkdcraw8 and see what it wants to uninstall.
<shtylman> yea
<shtylman> I installed that
<ScottK> What got kicked out?
<shtylman> don't remember ... :/ that was a while back... but im installing showfoto now
<shtylman> I noticed in aptitude that a few things didn't install
<shtylman> and im installing the dbg packages just in case
<ScottK> Back later.
<shtylman> kipi-plugins isn't available... that seems to be the problem...
<DaskrEEch> Uh huh
<DaskrEEch> I have somewhat the same issue
<ScottK> That'd need to be uploaded to the PPA to build against 4.4
<shtylman> is someone on that?
<ScottK> Not as far as I know.
<shtylman> k
<shtylman> can we pull the ones from lucid? cause those seem to work fine
<ScottK> I haven't been keeping track of the changes that need to be made to go from lucid to karmic.
<shtylman> ahh
<shtylman> I guess its not a big focus anyhow
<ScottK> Not for me anyway
<ScottK> nixternal: Getting louder over there?
<nixternal> don't hear anything
<nixternal> it is warmer in here though
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> Stuff is compiling.
<nixternal> System load: 1.72
<nixternal> hrmm, it is actually fairly quiet
<nixternal> kdevelop(7396)/kio (KDirListerCache) KDirListerCache::slotFileDirty: forgetting about individual update to "/home/nixternal/.zhistory"
<nixternal> kdevelop(7396)/kio (KDirListerCache) KDirListerCache::updateDirectory: KUrl("file:///home/nixternal")
<nixternal> that sounds a bit unnecessary to me
<nixternal> why does kdevelop care that I did 'ls' in a terminal?
<ScottK> Seems OK speed wise too.
<nixternal> 667MHz G4, quite ancient
<nixternal> it has 1.25GB of ram, which I think I pieced together from spare parts I found around here
<nixternal> I got it free a few years back..I tried OS X, realized it was not my cup of soup....used it for Debian for a few months, then finally decomissioned it until today
<DaskrEEch> When you decide that yo uwant to kill it?
<nixternal> would be nice if this thing had wake on lan, then you could shut it off when you were done with it, and start it up when you were ready to play again :)
<nixternal> never noticed how noisy this thing was before
<nixternal> anywho, to bed I go...g'nite
<jussi01> Just a quick question, is kpackagekit's non handling of sun licenses going to be fixed for lucid? ie. is it planned?
<Nightrose> happy birthday ScottK :)
<ghostcube> ScottK: happy birthday o.o
<ghostcube> we need a birthday calender in here
<ghostcube> someone codes a birthday bot ?
<ghostcube> :D
<jussi01> ghostcube: please no more bots....
<jussi01> if anything a plugin for kubotu...
<ghostcube> jussi01: i was just joking :) but if someone can manage this
<jussi01> ghostcube: I dont think its that useful, but meh
<ghostcube> its like a weather bot funny for 3 weeks and then ...
<ghostcube> :)
 * jussi01 downloads lucid alternate for installing in virtualbox...
<ghostcube> :O
<ghostcube> hmmm i known i forgot something to install yesterday damn
<ghostcube> virtualbox is missing on a friends pc heh i think he doesnt like this
<ghostcube> :D
<apparle> Who develops Kdelirc
<apparle> I would like to write an extension for it
<DaSKreeCH> apparle seems to do that a heck of a lot?
<DaSKreeCH> that's the third time I've seen him (assuming him) login and ask something then insta logout
<jussi01> DaSKreeCH: yeah, theres a few regular flyby'ers
<DaSKreeCH> apparle: hi.
<apparle> DaSKreeCH: hi
<DaSKreeCH> apparle: Did you check the Authours file in SVN ?
<apparle> DaSKreeCH: Nope...I don't know much abt this
<DaSKreeCH> apparle: ok well head to http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE and find klirc
<DaSKreeCH> You can see who has been commiting recently and get the e-mail addresses
<ScottK> Thanks everyone for the birthday wishes.  I think it's safely over everywhere now.
* ScottK changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Lucid Alpha 1 Released! | Kubuntu has the Doctor on the brain | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | Oustanding merges: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lucas/merges.html |Congratulations to Quintasan for becoming a MOTU
<RiotingPacifist> what is the ETA for nepomuk working in karmic?
<DaSKreeCH> RiotingPacifist: Ask openlinks
<jussi01> RiotingPacifist: when virtuoso release...
<ejat> did someone working for kmymoney beta ?
<ejat> i got issues while compiling it .. since it need to port to qt4
<ejat> will glad if someone package it for kubuntu :)
<nixternal> heh, how do I get pictures off my camera w/o digikam? I feel like a freakin' newb right now
<ejat> nixternal: mount it manually ?
<nixternal> guess so, I thought it would have popped up and told me I plugged it in
<nixternal> thought it did that before...guess not
<ejat> nixternal: should be if u choose the storage mode from the camera
<_Groo_> hi/2 all
<_Groo_> i found another broken kde package in lucid, this time a kopete one
<_Groo_> kopete-cryptography: Depends: libkleo4 (= 4:4.3.2-0ubuntu6) but 4:4.3.85-0ubuntu1 is installed.
<ejat> i think .. same goes to da hphone .. it will notify ...
<_Groo_> also koffice-kde4 krita is still version 2.0.2 :(
<_Groo_> i mean the entire koffice package in lucid is still old
<ejat> anyone working to update the kopete-facebook package for kde sc 4.4 beta2 ?
<jussi01> _Groo_: I think thats because of the main inclusion
<_Groo_> jussi01: are you refering to koffice?
<jussi01> yes
<jussi01> its waiting on a mir iirc
<_Groo_> also vlc needs to be updated to 1.0.4 in order to fix the kde over fullscreen bug
<_Groo_> jussi01: waiting on a what? lol
<jussi01> Main Inclusion Report
<_Groo_> jussi01: ah ok
<_Groo_> can someone take a look at kopete-cryptography then?
<shtylman> what is all this with this steve guy?
<shtylman> vorian I think
<shtylman> what the hell happened?
<Nightrose> a few things that weren't CoC compatible - nothing to loose sleep over now though as it is dealt with
<shtylman> interesting
<DaSKreeCH> nixternal: Gwenview can pull pics off
<nixternal> I can't figure it out
<ejat> DaSKreeCH: did it need to install the plugin ?
<nixternal> oh, maybe I can now
<nixternal> all of my kipi this and kipi that were busted
<shtylman> yea
<shtylman> my kipi stuff is borked as well
<DaSKreeCH> Mine too
<nixternal> hrmm...guess I will install f-spot then
<shtylman> nooooooo
<RiotingPacifist> jussi01: huh? isn't 5.0.12 already out?
<nixternal> shtylman: what else can I use then?
<shtylman> what are you trying to do?
<nixternal> haha, I just installed the new kipi-plugins from lucid in karmic :)
<nixternal> booyahzers
<shtylman> nice
<shtylman> I might have to do that :)
<shtylman> you just got that deb file?
<ScottK> _Groo_: We need to wait for a new kopete-cryptography release that works with 4.4 before we can fix it.
<_Groo_> ScottK: ah ok
<_Groo_> ScottK: the thing is, if lucid is kde 4.4 based, shouldnt the old packages be purged until they are upgraded?
<ScottK> _Groo_: There isn't a really great way to do that.  Fundamentally the development release is only for testing and development, so if some stuff doesn't work, I think it's oK.
<ScottK> nixternal: I fixed libsdl1.2 on powerpc.  I'll upload it shortly.  Thanks.
<_Groo_> ScottK: ok :) ill keep bugging you guys :D how about vlc 1.0.4? from launchpad it should have been included in lucid already
<ScottK> _Groo_: There should be a new kopete-cryptography release with 4.4 final.
<nixternal> shit, digikam breaks
<nixternal> DaSKreeCH: gwenview does not dl pics from a camera...if it does, it is a well hidden feature
<_Groo_> ScottK: ok
<ScottK> _Groo_: Both Ubuntu and Debian still have 1.0.3 vlc, why do you say it should be included already?
<_Groo_> ScottK: cause 1.0.4 fixes the kde over vlc fullscreen bug
<ScottK> Ah.  I guess it just needs someone to package it.
<_Groo_> ScottK: i can do it and send to revu if you want
<ScottK> _Groo_: For a new upstream release, just attach the .diff.gz to a bug and subsribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<ScottK> _Groo_: Even better, ping someone on pkg-multimedia and help them update it in Debian (perhaps siretart)
<_Groo_> ScottK: ok
<_Groo_> ScottK: i cant subscribe to ubuntu-universe-sponsors, i need to be added by an admin
<ScottK> _Groo_: You can subscribe uus to the bug that has the diff.gz.
 * ScottK is off for a while.
<_Groo_> ScottK: ahhh ok
<_Groo_> ScottK: cant i be added to ubuntu-universe-contributors?
<_Groo_> ScottK: or revu-uploaders since i already upload to revu :P
<txwikinger> _Groo_: I think ScottK meant to add ubuntu-universe-contributors to the bug report not to add yourself to ubuntu-universe-contributors
<_Groo_> txwikinger: yeah i got it now...
<_Groo_> debian = ubuntu = lots of bureacracy
<txwikinger> well.. you need some checks and balances.. if you don't want that, I fear you need to do your own distro
<jjesse> txwikinger: totally agree, no checks and balances and things go to chaos really quickly
<ejat> my alt+f2 wont popup the run command .. where should i check ?
<shtylman> ejat: rerun krunner
<shtylman> (probly in a konsole)
<ejat> shtylman: thanks ..
<shtylman> np
<ejat> wondering why it suddenly died
<ejat> even i already restart the machine it wont run ..
<shtylman> who knows... some bug most likely
<shtylman> if it happens alot you could try running it in a debugger
<_Groo_> txwikinger: i agree, but ubuntu could create a more loose revu/uploaders for the ocasional packager, like myself
<ejat> ok .. my plasmoid also disappear .. then i need to add it back .. yeah .. maybe its a bug in kde sc 4.4 beta2
<txwikinger> _Groo_: we have that... it is called a ppa
<_Groo_> txwikinger: Â¬Â¬
<ghostcube> :)
<_Groo_> is anyone looking at kdebindings for kde 4.4 beta 2? (lucid)
<nixternal> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixternal/4226262754/sizes/l/  <- 1 to 3 inches of snow
<ghostcube> woha
<Tm_T> only ~30 cm snow here ):
<Tm_T> perhaps more but still not much
<ghostcube> null here cause to warm
<Quintasan> _Groo_: the debian dir for virtuoso you sent me is corrupted, at least it fails to extract
<Quintasan> also, nice drama with Steve
<_Groo_> Quintasan: it is? whats your email again, gonna resend
<Quintasan> quintasan@kubuntu.org
<_Groo_> Quintasan: very strange i checked it here before i sent it
<_Groo_> Quintasan: im trying to make kdebidings for 4.3.85
<Quintasan> don't waste your time now
<Quintasan> if they don't build they wont :P
<Quintasan> Lex79: did you try building kdebindings?
<_Groo_> Quintasan: ok, sent.. try now.. but it IS working... its a tar.bz2 file
<Quintasan> _Groo_: okay, thanks
<_Groo_> i need to hangup see ya guys later
<DaSKreeCH> nixternal: http://gwenview.sourceforge.net/
<nixternal> yeah, I know about that...but it seems it is either a) not in our current release of gwenview, b) cannot be triggered manually, or c) not popping up teh notification when I attach my camera
<ulysses__> the Time Lords returned \o/
<DaSKreeCH> It's about time! Lord!
<Quintasan> wut?
<ulysses__> "For Gallifrey! For victory! For the end of time itself!"
<nixternal> ScottK: are we doing that bzr merging/building crap now? want to make sure I am doing things right before committing anything...shit changes so frequently around here, I don't have time to keep up
<ScottK> nixternal: For Kubuntu packages we are still just keeping debian dir in bzr (like the last couple of releases), but for merging in general, you need to use the bzr stuff since MoM is dead.
<ScottK> You can build the package using it, but you still have to upload the source yourself.
<nixternal> ahhh, ok that explains your email I read the other day then
<nixternal> haha, I got a chuckle out of it, as I could tell you were a bit pissed
<Lex79> Quintasan: yes, it was ftbs
<Quintasan> Lex79: Groo wanted to do it very badly but I told him to stop wasting time :P
<Lex79> Quintasan: it makes sense :D
<Quintasan> grr when that damned virtuoso is going to get released
<Lex79> dunno
<Quintasan> FCKIN FLASH
<Quintasan> damn it and I had sooo damn good tiles
<Quintasan> how can this be, clicking stops working when I'm one tile awayfrom winning
<DaSKreeCH> Quintasan: Ping overlinks and ask for a timeline once they have finished drinking
<Quintasan> wait, what?
<DaSKreeCH> Quintasan: the fine folks who have the final say on the release of virtuoso ?
<DaSKreeCH> Would be a good set of people to ask for a timeline :)
<Quintasan> oh
<Quintasan> now that you mention it
<Quintasan> I wonder who's responisble
<DaSKreeCH> openlinkssw ?
<shtylman> is quadros going to be the default wallpaper?
<shtylman> for lucid?
<shtylman> Riddell: is quadros wallpaper gonna be default in lucid?
<Riddell> shtylman: nobody seems to like it, it's not a small job replacing it though, chosing artwork is tricky (everyone has an opinion) and stuff like the konqueror about page need updated too
<shtylman> Riddell: really... noone likes it?
<shtylman> I kinda like it :)
<shtylman> so is that a yes or a no on default?
<shtylman> I was just wondering if I should change the installer background to use it
<Riddell> shtylman: it's too distracting.  I havn't seen anyone in here or in KDE channels who likes it
<shtylman> gotcha
<Riddell> I'd be tempted to use the circle one from 4.3 since it was never set to default for that
<shtylman> yea...I like that one too
<shtylman> so is pinheiro gonna make something else since no one likes it?
<Riddell> I've not heard form upstream.  but no decision here yet, I think we should make a decision shortly after 4.4 is released since upstream could change it until then
<shtylman> makes sense
#kubuntu-devel 2009-12-30
<nixternal> oh, I am so damn mean!
<nixternal> I ssh'd into my brothers computer to update it for him, and while it was updating, I whipped up a quick script, stuck it in his $HOME/.kde/Autostart, and rebooted
<nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/files/bsod.png  <- that is what he got when he logged in
<nixternal> he called me about 10 minutes ago yelling, "I THOUGHT KOOONUTBOOOTOOO DIDN"T GET VIRUSES!!!!"
<nixternal> just goes to show you, even windows lusers don't even read bsod's
<maco> haha
<maco> you're mean
<nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/files/bsod.txt  <- if anyone feels like playing a joke :)
<jussi01> nixternal: you are nasty!
<Tm_T> nixternal: that asscreensaver?
<Tm_T> s/ass/as\ s/
<genii>  For useful debug output of Akonadi crash, need akonadi-dbg ? Opening KDE Services gives me 2-3 loops of it crashing with messages about DBus and nepomuk. I can't see anything like nepomuk-dbg or so though. ( 10.04 64bit,  4.4b2 )
<jjesse> ok here's an interesting one, runing kde 4.4 beta 2 and when i go to add a printer i get an error message about an orphaned kcm module for system-config-printer
<Riddell> kdebindings needs sorted I expect
<Riddell> I'll do it next week
<jjesse> ok
<jjesse> in the meantime no printing?
<Riddell> it should autoconfigure for most people
<yuriy> Riddell: my membership is about to expire, what to do?
<Riddell> yuriy: renew it?
<yuriy> ... nevermind .. should have actually read the thing. usually they say contact admin etc
 * yuriy is way too on vacation
<_Groo_> Riddell: kdebindings 4.3.85 doesnt compile in lucid unfortunatelly, we need to use svn or a patched one
<_Groo_> Riddell: i tried to sort the damn thing yesterday, gonna try again this week, if im sucessfull im gonna put it in my ppa
<_Groo_> are the neon packages for kde night build working again by any chance?
<Riddell> good luck _Groo_
<Riddell> _Groo_: I don't think quintasian has done neon yet
<_Groo_> Riddell: thanks :D
<_Groo_> Riddell: im compiling kdebindings svn on my machine, lets see if it goes now :)
<stalcup1> Sorry for being an ass
<stalcup1> You all has every right to cick me out
<stalcup1> What I did was not acceptable, and I hope you can forgive me
<stalcup1> (this is vorian)
<stalcup1> I love you guys, and if I were gay I'd be on a plane to Austria
<stalcup1> Love lots, bot
 * Riddell hugs stalcup1 
<stalcup1> Russell, I was comming back you know
<stalcup1> Riddell, rather
<stalcup1> We've had the awefullest time moving, finding a house
<stalcup1> It's not easy w 5 kid
<stalcup1> So, we are finnly settled and I get kicked ;(
<nixternal> Tm_T: thati s a python script, not a screensaver :)
<_Groo_> soprano isnt compiling with kdebindings svn and beta 2.. i disabled it for now, lets see if the package compiles cleanly now
<Tm_T> nixternal: won't stop using it as one though, if really wants, I guess
<amichair> what's the story with the guy being bashed in public in the mailing list? what did he do? as a bystander and newbie in this community, it's pretty off-putting... not sure that's the word for it. maybe disturbing. although there are no facts anywhere - but then why take it public like this?
<ScottK> amichair: I don't have all the facts.  This is very unusual.
<ScottK> So I would encourage you not to be too offput by it as this sort of thing is very much the exception.
<amichair> hope I don't accidentally do anything wrong here :-)
<ScottK> I wouldn't worry about it too much.
<amichair> ScottK: I'm not really worried :-)
<ScottK> OK. Good.
<amichair> it's just... strange.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<EagleScreen> I obtain this warning at pushing in bazaar: http://pastebin.com/d5055968d what happens? is it safe continue?
<Riddell> amichair: he wasn't bashed in public, he was written a private e-mail from someone saying he was upset with him and he chose to forward it to the mailing list
<amichair> oh.
<nixternal> hola hola hola
<nixternal> da plain da plain da plain!
<Riddell> si
<nixternal> amichair: I agree with you 110%, and it is somewhat bashing a friend of mine :(
<nixternal> actually, there really isn't any bashing, I take that back
<nixternal> just some overheated people :)
<nixternal> and rightfully so, but it shouldn't have ever gone public in the first place
<jjesse> are you all talking about the silly stuff that vorian posted?
<Riddell> yes
<amichair> there's a proverb in these parts, badly translated as "if you put someone to shame in public, it's as if you spilled his blood". It's pretty effective when you're a kid ;-)
<nixternal> and it is still the same when you aren't a kid
<nixternal> oh, who am I fooling, I am still a kid :p
<amichair> does that work in other languages as well?
<nixternal> yes
<amichair> cool :-)
<nixternal> I have always been a believer of it, you never shame anyone in public...if you have a problem with that person, make it private
<amichair> then there's one for the advanced proverb ninja, similarly badly translated as "righteous is he who is insulted and does not insult back, hears his shame spoken, and does not respond". the original sounds less preachy, more elegant...
<ScottK> It's understandable.
<amichair> wise words, but sometimes hard to do...
<Riddell> nobody insulted him, he insulted other people and various people got upset and told him so
<amichair> in that case, it goes both ways!
<amichair> anyway, I've had enough proverbs, buddhism and neuroscience for one day :-)
 * amichair goes back into lurk mode
<nixternal> hahah
<amichair> oh what the heck, I found a proper translation (this time read it with Yoda's voice!):
<amichair> âThose who are humiliated yet do not humiliate in turn, who hear their insult and do not retort, who perform out of love and are happy in affliction."
<jjesse> wow that's deep
<amichair> (note that's three steps in order of difficulty. Hard it is happy in affliction to be!)
<genii> Best from Konsole to use kdesudo when starting something like gparted, or use gksu/gksudo instead?
<genii> (or does it matter? )
<pinheiro> Riddell: so you gusy dont like quadros :D
<pinheiro> guys
<pinheiro> its works better than it looks
<pinheiro> and its extremly bradable
<pinheiro> brandable
<pinheiro> and im aware its a risk
<pinheiro> but....
<pinheiro> its the most artsy wallpaer we haver had, and think its time to try to push the estectical bowndries od our user base
<pinheiro> od= of
<ScottK> away
<ScottK> oops
<ScottK> pinheiro: Our problem is we have approximately zero artists to brand it.  Can we get help with that?
<pinheiro> ScottK: obviusly
<pinheiro> that what im here for most of the time
<Tm_T> genii: shouldn't matter
<genii> Tm_T: Thanks
 * ScottK stares really hard at shtylman and hopes he volunteers to work with pinheiro on this since he did such a great job on the installer stuff.
<pinheiro> oo yeah
<pinheiro> he did
<ScottK> The reward for good work being, of course, more work.
<pinheiro> the revamp of that should be super easy as soon as i do the new efect for air plasma theme
<pinheiro> ScottK:  :D
<pinheiro> i get way to may rewords
<pinheiro> many
<pinheiro> ScottK:  been reding some reviews and a comon complaint about kubuntu is the lack of cutomization
<pinheiro> thre area a couple of things that area realy easy to chage to give a more branding atitude to kubuntu
<ScottK> pinheiro: That's true.  OTOH, part of why I like Kubuntu is that I'm running pretty much KDE.
<ScottK> So it's a balance.
<pinheiro> i agrea
<ScottK> Agreed we should probably do a bit more.
<pinheiro> would just be enough to shut thos guys up
<ScottK> Yeah.
<pinheiro> that waht i like any way
<pinheiro> I hate mandriva themeing and craping everything
<ScottK> Personally I've got negative time for this, but hope someone (shtylman <--) volunteers to work on it.
<pinheiro> dead line?
 * pinheiro will have more free time in a couple of days finaly :D
<ScottK> Feb sometime.
<pinheiro> cool
<pinheiro> 4.4?
<ScottK> Uploaded before Feb 18.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
<ScottK> Yes, 4.4.whatever is ready
<pinheiro> that will be extremly fresh 4.4
<pinheiro> cool
<ScottK> We will continue to update with the point releases as they come out up to release time.
<pinheiro> any way  im sure we can make somthing "kubuntu" style
<pinheiro> wuth a very strong kde feeling to it
<pinheiro> with
<ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ Thoughts?
<Riddell> pinheiro: the issue with Quadros is that it's way too distracting
<Riddell> the folder plasmoid becomes hard to use
<Riddell> the pattern is full of borders which distracts from the borders of everything else
<shtylman> pinheiro ScottK: yea... I can deff work with people on it for the Kubuntu branding side of things. Im sure Riddell will have input on the matter as well :)
<shtylman> for the most part I am quite happy with upstream kde ... but I have started applying my own little tweaks to things
<shtylman> for my own tastes
<pinheiro> Riddell: naaaaa :)
<pinheiro> and the borders of the folfer plasmoid dont actualy provide any usefull content
<pinheiro> i meen you dont interabt with them
<pinheiro> interact
<shtylman> pinheiro: what if the plasma containers (like for folder view) were a little less transparent?
<pinheiro> its not like you can scale the actual borders
<pinheiro> people seam to like it trasparent
<shtylman> I don't want to say blurred (cause we know how notmart feels about that :)
<pinheiro> and realy what do you lose ?
<shtylman> if its blurred or if its less transparent?
<pinheiro> its a contaiment for icons
<shtylman> yea
<pinheiro> the thing you inteact with is the icons
<pinheiro> interact
<pinheiro> not the contenment
<shtylman> and I think the biggest problem people have with it (from what I have heard) is that the containment doesn't do enough to isolate the icons
<shtylman> I personally like the square wallpaper and don't think it classes too much with things... but that could be a taste thing
<shtylman> I like "modern" styles
<shtylman> which tend to be boxy
<shtylman> and have straight lines
<shtylman> other might not like that
<shtylman> maybe just have the wallaper not as pervasive through the containment?
<pinheiro> the wallpaper is espected to be contrevensic
<pinheiro> its not what people espect
<shtylman> :)
<pinheiro> I did this on propose
<pinheiro> i culd do a couple of blue swirls
<pinheiro> its waht espected of us
<shtylman> heh
<pinheiro> this is difrent in blue
<pinheiro> :)
<shtylman> don't get me wrong... im probly your biggest supporter for this wallpaper :)
<ScottK> Unfortunately for Kubuntu, this release is a long term support release (3 years), so not the best time for excitement.
<pinheiro> had i gone crazy and i would not use blue :D
<shtylman> I just want to meet a middle ground for users that are complaining about how crowded it is
<pinheiro> shtylman: sure
<pinheiro> i did its under the kde POV
<pinheiro> 3 years is way to much for that one
<pinheiro> the kde POV is 1 yaer witha restyle in 6 months
<pinheiro> year
<shtylman> what about fading the wallpaper back a bit?
<shtylman> maybe so it is less harsh on the eyes? cause it is alot of blue :)
<pinheiro> becomes boring
<shtylman> hmm
<Riddell> I think it's the borders to the boxes that would be faded
<pinheiro> but desturating the colors sure
<shtylman> yea..maybe desaturate
<pinheiro> might be a good idea
<shtylman> causes with a large monitor (I have 2 of them) ... it looks a bit overwhelming
<pinheiro> wow
<shtylman> like... it jumps at you a bit much
<pinheiro> size?
<shtylman> 1680x1400 on both of them
<shtylman> I think they are 21" or 20.1"
<shtylman> something like that
<pinheiro> 1600x1400 you meen
<shtylman> op... 1680x1050
<shtylman> my bad
<shtylman> forgot my own resolution
<pinheiro> haaaa
<pinheiro> then you are using the 1920x1200 right?
<shtylman> yea
<pinheiro> the squares should be a bit to small then :(
<pinheiro> it becomes clutered
<pinheiro> this wallpeper is realy special
<pinheiro> the squares must have a certain size
<shtylman> yea... I think I would like it more if it didn't jump out at me
<shtylman> as much
<pinheiro> or it becomes clutered
<pinheiro> yeah but in your case its should be realy all over the place
<shtylman> cause I like to think of the wallpaper as more docile... then again... before this wallpaper I used solid black
<pinheiro> like squares invasion
<shtylman> so maybe I am not be best judge in how docile a wallpaper should be :)
<pinheiro> shtylman:  i know exactly what you meen
<Quintasan> hmm, guys, anyone is using byobu from PPA?
<ScottK> nixternal is the byobu fan.
<shtylman> pinheiro: http://apt.shtylman.com/stuff/1920x1200.jpg
<Quintasan> well I wanted to have few ssh sessions but I somewhat can't type the password in, I wonder what's wrong
<shtylman> I just played with the curves a bit there
<shtylman> but thats sorta along the idea maybe?
<shtylman> a bit more "washed out"
<Quintasan> uhh, this wallpaper @_@
<shtylman> its not as bright as the one you made... but maybe it works better for various screen brightnesses and contrasts?
<shtylman> it could also be room lighting... etc... lots of stuff could come into play here
<pinheiro> shtylman: i can send you the source
<pinheiro> and you can play with it
<JontheEchidna> I found Quadros to be less overwhelming on my LCD screen than on my CRT monitor for some reason. Maybe it's becaused things look slightly washed out on the LCD
<pinheiro> its just 3 gradients
<JontheEchidna> well, the LCD isn't horrible contrast-wise, but the ol' beast monitors are better in general, unless you have a really good LCD
<shtylman> pinheiro: indeed... it might even be possible to post process the images by modifying the curves/colors after the fact
<shtylman> JontheEchidna: did you find it too light on any of the monitors?
<JontheEchidna> I think it might be slightly too light on my laptop
<shtylman> cause I find it too light on my laptop
<shtylman> but then again...could be a taste thing
<JontheEchidna> maybe
<pinheiro> defnetly taste and acustumed
<pinheiro> its difrent
<JontheEchidna> anyway, going off to eat dinner, just thought I'd pop in my opinion and run ;D
<shtylman> that it is
<shtylman> :)
<shtylman> I am gonna leave it on my desktop for a bit.. (my modified color one) and see how that goes
<pinheiro> shtylman: probaly you need to desaturate it
<pinheiro> but the original not post guimp work
<pinheiro> gimp
<shtylman> k
<shtylman> I also tried burring it ... that was a no no
<pinheiro> nononon
<pinheiro> :)
<pinheiro> you can do that as a mask
<shtylman> yea
<pinheiro> 30% alpha
<pinheiro> makes ita  bit dreamy
<shtylman> hehe
<pinheiro> but you play it globaly it just becomes messy
<pinheiro> aply
<shtylman> yea
<shtylman> it becomes too much globally
<pinheiro> as i said its interesting
<shtylman> Riddell: how many wallpaper choices do we ship by default?
<shtylman> do we ship only the main one or a few others from previous cycles?
<maco> not many?
<Riddell> shtylman: 1
<shtylman> hehe
<Riddell> no space for any more
<maco> ooh i was gonna guess right
<shtylman> ahh
<shtylman> our poor cd
<shtylman> out of space
<Riddell> I think kdebase should do the same, any other wallpapers should be in kdeartwork
<Riddell> pinheiro: have you had feedback from KDE folks on this wallpaper?  because the comments I've seen are much the same as from Kubuntu folks, that it's too harsh on the eyes
<pinheiro> no none at all
<pinheiro> and i noteced your by loking up on google for thwallpaers in websvn
<pinheiro> that laed me to a log of a irc talk here
<pinheiro> any way i have alot of rust in it heven if its very difrent for the usual thing
<pinheiro> trust
<pinheiro> but for distros i will probably dessturate it
<pinheiro> dessaturate
<shtylman> :)
<pinheiro> more than anything else the wallpaer is about marketing
<pinheiro> and it has huge marketing value this one
<pinheiro> very easy to recognise across a room
<shtylman> yea...but the problem is ... you don't want to kill the person in front of the monitor so that someone on the other side of the room can regocnize the wallpaper :)
<pinheiro> dont i?
<shtylman> hahaha
<pinheiro> its a risk we are taking
<shtylman> right
<shtylman> ill reserve final judgement for the dessaturated one :)
<pinheiro> i will reavaliate it in 4.5
<pinheiro> hopefuly it will go the distance
<pinheiro> but i will cry no tear if it dosent
<shtylman> heh
<pinheiro> i ealy want to try to push our typical bondries
<pinheiro> so we can get difernt users
<ScottK> The trick being to get the new ones, but not lose the old ones.
<pinheiro> wont lose couse of an wallpaper
<shtylman> yea...I don't think we will loose people cause of a wallpaper
<shtylman> it may just upset some people..but those will change it
<shtylman> but you do want to make the users happy :)
<pinheiro> the ones we have thar realy hate it can change it
<Riddell> shtylman: users can't easily change the about konqueror page
<pinheiro> haaa do what ever and you will leave users un hapy
<pinheiro> its a fact wen you have millions of users
<pinheiro> nothing makes every one happy
<shtylman> Riddell: what does that look like?
<shtylman> does that use the default wallpaper?
<pinheiro> Riddell: that as been chaged i think
<pinheiro> chaged
<pinheiro> and was kinda davide bettio doing his thing
<pinheiro> i haked him to replace it with just a gradient
<Riddell> shtylman: http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/konq.png
<Riddell> pinheiro: oh, ok
<pinheiro> its not completly orrible
<pinheiro> horrobel
<pinheiro> horribel
<pinheiro> or how that is speled
<shtylman> heh
<Riddell> it's far too distracting, the background should be in the background but there it grabs your attention and doesn't let you go
 * claydoh_ *loves* that wallpaper btw, and using a transparent plasma theme makes it even cooler :)
<shtylman> haha
<shtylman> I like that plasma container in the konqueror screenshot
<shtylman> I think I like that over the current folder containment
<shtylman> cause its a bit darker
<pinheiro> shtylman:  actualy that one is prety porly made
<pinheiro> me wanted mofux to do it but ...
<shtylman> it might be poorly made... but I think it makes the containment stand out a bit better
<shtylman> which may or may not be the goal
<pinheiro> mofux had way better concepts for it ..... more like your kubunto instaler
<pinheiro>  kubuntu instaler
<shtylman> ahh
<shtylman> I will have to ask him about that
<pinheiro> yeah maybe you gusy could do it ;)
<pinheiro> guys
<pinheiro> not all that happy with the current form
<shtylman> of the containment?
<pinheiro> of the intire page
<pinheiro> but the continement as one huge flaw .... shadow under it
<pinheiro> making its bg look more dark and not more white
<shtylman> I see
<pinheiro> wich doesnt make sence
<shtylman> should the containments make it look more white?
<pinheiro> yeap
<shtylman> how come?
<pinheiro> its faded glass
<shtylman> ahh
<pinheiro> to project a shadow under it it would need to be opaque
<pinheiro> on the sides it does projct a shadow couse the sides reflect all light
<pinheiro> but not in the midle
<shtylman> I see
<shtylman> makes sense
<pinheiro> he should have cliped the shadow
<pinheiro> there are also a couple f other errors there
<pinheiro> on the sie you can see a 1 pixel error
<pinheiro> in teh sahdow part
<pinheiro> the
<pinheiro> the actula shadow is cliped
<shtylman> do you know if the kdm theme is staying the same for 4.4? I imagine it would...
<pinheiro> shtylman: i wish some one woud take care of that
<shtylman> what do you hope someone does to it?
<pinheiro> kdm
<shtylman> yea... what specifically?
<shtylman> do you have something in mind?
<shtylman> or just an overhaul?
<crimsun> there are not enough hours in one day :(
<crimsun> -ETIME
#kubuntu-devel 2009-12-31
<nixternal> and here comes even more snow!
<claydoh> yay!
<claydoh> we may even get a doozie this weekend, but the weather people are often wayyy waaaay off
<nixternal> yeah, they told us 1 to 3 inches on saturday, but we got between 14 and 16
<nixternal> so now, we have 2 feet of snow in our yard with more falling on it right now
<nixternal> i dug out a maze for the dogs :)
<Riddell> we didn't get more than 10cm of snow but we did get some seriously impressive stalegtites http://www.forthcc.com/photos/image/434#image-load
<nixternal> oh that is cool looking
<nixternal> I want some of those hanging from my house, like an ice house
<nixternal> I am looking forward to trying to kayak again next year...my one try out this year ended up with more water inside of than there was around me
<nixternal> flipping over I have yet to master...well I can flip over, I just can flip back over
<nixternal> ..I just can't flip back over
<Riddell> you need to learn that in a pool first
<nixternal> Riddell: i was trying to be cool for the ladies man, I didn't have time for the pool
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> I think it would have been more fun though if it were a bit more dangerous than where I did it
<nixternal> the water surface was like a sheet of glass it was so smooth
 * claydoh likes kayaking on lakes and ponds, doesn't fit into sea or sport kayaks 
<JontheEchidna> I tried a roll a few years back. Ended up having to remove the spray skirt and pop up with the kayak still face-down, heh.
<nixternal> that's exactly what I did, but my upper legs are quite large and were wedged pretty good inside the kayak
<nixternal> I need to do some coding, but I don't know where the hell to go and what to work on...I just keep looking at stuff
<Riddell> it does take most adults several sessions to learn how to roll
<nixternal> it took me a bit to grasp the rowing part...I would either try to go to fast, and miss scooping the water most of the time, or I would scoop to deep, slowing my recovery down and not being able to switch to the other side for a row quick enough to the point I would start turning
<nixternal> at one point, I had a good rhythm down for about a mile, and was actually going pretty fast
<JontheEchidna> I can row OK, but I still tend to wiggle a bit
<nixternal> yeah, I did that
<nixternal> one of my workouts that I do is rowing, but I have a regular row boat in which I have loaded 500 pounds of bricks in...I can row the hell out of that thing, but that kayak, which seemed simple, kind of kicked my ass
<nixternal> once our little lake unfreezes, I will go back out...it would have been a great workout for today instead of going to the gym and ripping my shorts
<Riddell> note that it's called paddling in a canoe, rowing means you're facing the wrong way
<nixternal> ahh, good pointer...now I won't get made fun of as much next time out :)
<Riddell> :)
<EagleScreen> hi
<EagleScreen> i am uploading a recent Amarok 2.2.2 snapshot to my PPA, it is failing to build only for i386, anyone would take a look to the log for helping?
<EagleScreen> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/37295637/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.amarok_2%3A2.2.2-0ubuntu0~git20091229~karmic1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<EagleScreen> The idea of my upload is allow people to install Amarok 2.2.2 in karmic with KDE 4.3.X
<ScottK> I guess I should have checked if he was still here before I figured out the answer to his question.
<nixternal> wooo, I am freakin' bored
 * txwikinger wonders if everybody is on vacation
<Meponuk-nk> J
<Meponuk-nk> Oops, sorry
<JontheEchidna> ScottK: any news on libssh?
<ScottK> Nope.  I think Canonical is mostly on vacation this week.
<JontheEchidna> Makes sense
<ScottK> Looks like it's waiting on kees for a security review.
<dhillon-v10> ScottK: hi any updates on merge-o-matic, or can I start on it and later may be submit a patch that fixes the v3 packages problem
<ScottK> I don't know of anyone working on it.
<dhillon-v10> ScottK: alright so I guess I'll push an initial branch containing the code and then work on it, thanks :D
<neversfelde> Happy new year everyone
<txwikinger> Happy New Year!
<ScottK> Happy New Year neversfelde
<ScottK> (everyone else too)
<ghostcube> amichair: did you build colibri ?
<ghostcube> ah no ...
<txwikinger> shtylman: Well still a little while ;0
<txwikinger> shtylman: Well still a little while ;)
<Lex79> Happy New Year everyone :)
#kubuntu-devel 2010-01-01
<shtylman> txwikinger: indeed...same here
<txwikinger> Well NY is in the same timezone as we are ;)
 * ScottK-desktop waves from the live session (what may be the last Kubuntu Dapper desktop is being replaced).
<Daskreech> nixternal: Saw the new job opening for linux expertise?
<Daskreech> ScottK-desktop: I have a dapper Desktop installation
<ScottK-desktop> Rats.
<ScottK-desktop> Daskreech: It's about time to upgrade.
<Daskreech> The computer can't run anything more advanced
<ScottK-desktop> Wow.
<Daskreech> Tried. Eventually went back to dapper
 * ScottK-desktop has a server box that can't run past Hardy, but never heard of can't run past Dapper.
<Daskreech> This is where you repeat >	Daskreech: It's about time to upgrade.
<ScottK-desktop> Nah, I believe you.
<ScottK-desktop> BTW, there are unfixed security vulnerabilities in the Dapper KDE.
<Daskreech> ScottK-desktop: I meant in terms of Hardware not software now :)
<ScottK-desktop> ;-)
<ScottK-desktop> What's the issue that keeps it from running anything newer?
<Daskreech> nixternal: http://www.itrunsonlinux.com/news/150-microsoft-wants-to-hire-an-anti-linux-guru
<ScottK-desktop> IIRC he used to work for them, so perfect.
<ScottK-desktop> Time to reboot.  BBL.
<ScottK> Sort of works ....
<ScottK> Better with the downgraded Intel drivers ....
<ScottK> Happy New Year.
<crimsun> ditto
<JontheEchidna> \o/
<jussi01> anyone awake?
<Tm_T> sure
<Tm_T> been since, err, 0720 or so
<jussi01> Tm_T: hai!
<Tm_T> o kala!
<jussi01> Tm_T: but you are mad, so you dont count :D
<Tm_T> indeed
 * jussi01 has had an idea for a cool application installer - similar to software center, but mainly for kde apps. sort of a kdecentric, recommended apps type thing.
<Tm_T> "Kubuntu crew recommends for: Music -> latest Amarok"
<Tm_T> ?
<jussi01> ?
<Tm_T> jussi01: you mean something taskcentric selection tool for preselected "best for purpose" app
<jussi01> Tm_T: not really
<Tm_T> oh, roger
<jussi01> Im more thinking of something like the osftware store center thingy on ubuntu
<Tm_T> aah, haven't seen it, have to try
<jussi01> Tm_T: I dunno about the new softwore store, but they used to have some sort of Add/remove programs thing, which is what Im talking about
<jussi01> Tm_T: this has a quick detail of the idea: http://jussi01.com/upload/uploads/20100101-124431-installeridea.odp and this explains the pic: http://jussi01.com/upload/uploads/20100101-125837-installeridea
<jussi01> Tm_T: this could also be applied to the kmenu, with a shortcut like super + k or something to bring it up.
<jussi01> Tm_T: view it as a slide show, cause its got on click appearances to give an idea
<jussi01> but please note, its _very_ quickly done
 * jussi01 prods at Tm_T
<Tm_T> interesting
<Tm_T> instead of "traditional list" we would have something more visual, hmmmm, I wonder if there's been usability studies regarding to this kind of things
 * jussi01 wonders if seele is around :D
<Tm_T> lists are indeed often not that good for inexpierenced users
<jussi01> Tm_T: the other idea I had that would be cool, is to make it an option to be a 3d plugin for kwin, kind of similar to one of the alt tab animations we have at the moment. but thats kind of secondary
<slacker_nl> hi, you guys know if any issues have been reported about losing your keyboard after you login to KDE?
<jussi01> slacker_nl: I had that happen once, but not again so i didnt report it
<slacker_nl> jussi01: i have it both on debian unstable and lucid
<slacker_nl> I can login and then only nothingness from my kb
<jussi01> slacker_nl: curious
<slacker_nl> indeed..
<slacker_nl> jussi01: i just started fvwm on my debian box
<slacker_nl> and there i have a keyboard
<slacker_nl> think it is related to kde
<slacker_nl> i do have this in my .xsession-error log: http://pb.opperschaap.net/138
<seele> jussi01: i am now
<jussi01> seele: could you give some feedback on my idea?
<seele> repost?
<jussi01> <jussi01> Tm_T: this has a quick detail of the idea: http://jussi01.com/upload/uploads/20100101-124431-installeridea.odp and this explains the pic: http://jussi01.com/upload/uploads/20100101-125837-installeridea
<jussi01> seele: it could also be used for a kmenu style thing
<seele> hmm
<seele> the problem is you rely on the icons too much
<seele> there are no labels, and browsing on hover isn't a very good method
<jussi01> seele: ok, apart from that? (can be fixed)
<seele> since you are using space, it is limited in size/number
<seele> the layout is also hard to browse because it doesnt folow a grid, your eyes have to track all over the place. if there is some order to the elements, ti would be hard to figure out
<seele> e.g. if you were looking for something particular, you'd have to look at pretty much everything, instead of going directly to the correct place in an organized list
<jussi01> Ok, hrm...
<seele> i know it looks cool but it's hard to use ;)
<jussi01> What if they wer a-z around the circle?
<seele> how does that effect the second layer in the middle?
<jussi01> it doesnt
<seele> oh those are categories, right
<jussi01> yeah
<seele> yeah, you could label them, but i dont think it helps the problem much
<seele> the problem with a-z labeling is that you dont have all letters so you either skip letters or have spaces
<seele> or you might have  a lot of one letter which skews the list
<seele> e.g. 25% are all M's or something
<jussi01> seele: after having the idea i did also come across somehting similar: http://code.google.com/p/circular-application-menu/
<seele> well that's a little different
<jussi01> seele: no, I dont mean label, but just have them ordered in a-z, say clockwise, so when you go to look, if you know the name, then you can easily find, cause its a-z
<jussi01> Maybe a search option is a good dea laso...
<seele> with your menu, the items are unknown, the list can be large, and possibly change depending on available software
<seele> with those menus they are known/learned, very small lists, and never change
<seele> so you can learn the position, which people are pretty good at doing
<seele> but the key is that it is learned and small and never changes
<seele> jussi01: i guess, but would you order it clockwise or counterclockwise? start from the top, right, bottom, etc? i dont know what the answer would be. that's not something common in literature :)
<jussi01> clockwise from top.
<jussi01> norma righthanded behavior
<seele> will that have any internationalization issues? not everyone has the same cultural biases
<amichair> jussi01: just popped in an saw ur link... I really like the idea! it's not often that we see something really new, and cool, and (to me) it makes sense...
<jussi01> seele: think about it in the installer idea. you will be looking for something that suits your needs, so say, you want to install firefox, you click web, which is at the "end" of the category circle, hen look through to f, for firefox.
<jussi01> amichair: feel like coding a mock up?
<jussi01> :D
 * jussi01 doesnt have coding skills
<amichair> jussi01: I dunno about installing software, but for the k-menu this seems like a good alternative - it's a fixed number of itmes, and having them in a row is no better (and less visually appealing) than having them in a circle!
<amichair> and in k-menu context, as seelse mentioned, it's the case that ppl get used to it, do the hover-around once to discover things (just as they would going over categories of a menu), and learn the icons pretty quick for stuff they need
<seele> jussi01: and what if you were looking for dvd buring software and didnt know the name of the application?
<jussi01> amichair: if it was for the kmenu, then it would be cool to just have it appear on a shortcut key, and go away after selection,
<seele> that is a pretty common case especially with new kde users because no one knows the names of software
<jussi01> seele: then you would browse the multimedia section
<seele> and have to scan the descriptions of each appliaction in a shape?
<jussi01> seele: because this is selected software only (as with add/remove) in gnome, there isnt toom uch
<jussi01> seele: how is it done now?
<amichair> seele: good point, but I don't find it much different than having to look through menus for a piece of software which I don't already know... usually icons, if they are good, help
<seele> you can do what you want and it is refreshing to see new ideas.. but circular menus havent taken off for the same reason 3-d interfaces havent. they just dont work on the desktop
<seele> there *are* successful applications of circular menus, but not in this environment
<amichair> jussi01: I have coding skills, but limited time... but I find this interesting - if this goes through, I might be able to give a hand
<seele> amichair: physically, doing that on a straight list is much easier than having to navigation with your mouse. there is a lot more attention paid to ergonomics lately because of problems with RSI etc. that's one of the arguments for kde being a single click environment
<seele> scanning in a grid is easier as well
<jussi01> Ive got to go clean, GF's brother is coming. thanks for taking the time to talk it through
<seele> no problem, sorry for the feedback, i know it wasnt what you wanted to hear :)
<jussi01> seele: no, I wanted to hear the opinion of a usability expert, regardless of good or bad.
<jussi01> so thank you.
<amichair> seele: interesting... is there a good source with a compilation of all them usability-researched guidelines?
<slacker_nl> which config file is responsible for my keyboard settings?
<slacker_nl> in my .kde dir?
<seele> amichair: there are lots of papers on the topic, i have no idea if anyone has done a literature review on the topic
<slacker_nl> ssh papia.opperschaap.net
<amichair> seele: that's what I was afraied of :-)
<slacker_nl> oops
<amichair> jussi01, seele: sorry, gotta run - will be happy to discuss this sometime - I've given thought to all sorts of GUI/usability issues, I find it an interesting and important topic.
<amichair> I actually tried to catch seele for a chat on the netbook interface a few times when it came out... though I think most of the points I made were indeed fixed by then. some other time then :-)
<yuriy> happy new year everyone!
<hunger> yuriy: Thanks! Same to you.
<xerxes> Me waves
<xerxes> Is apachelogger about?
<ScottK> xerxes: IIRC he's taking a little break to avoid incipient burnout.  What's up?
<xerxes> Nope
<xerxes> Just wanted to pass a message along from voroan
<xerxes> Youight
<xerxes> You
<ScottK> xerxes: Yes, please.
<shtylman> contributors be dropping like flies
<crimsun> there is little incentive to contribute
<crimsun> even when one is employed to work on FOSS, many people choose non-FOSS things during off-the-clock hours
<shtylman> I choose FOSS things during off the clock hours :)
<shtylman> the incentives to contribute are self driven
<crimsun> I'd say those aren't really incentives, which classically are external
<crimsun> self-worth, pride, etc., not so much
<crimsun> people who tend to tie FOSS into their lifestyles of course find it easier to contribute
<shtylman> right
<crimsun> git cherry-pick 0b587fc4d35afb1bc0fc3d890084bb14c78372dc
<crimsun> bah
<shtylman> is the sftp protocol no longer valid in dolphin 4.4?
<JontheEchidna> shtylman: waiting on a security review for libssh, which is a new requirement in 4.4
<JontheEchidna> so it's only a temporary outage
<shtylman> ahhh
<shtylman> any workaround until then?
<JontheEchidna> you can compile kdebase-runtime with libssh installed locally
<shtylman> noted
<shtylman> JontheEchidna: do you happen to know where in the kde source the app is that does the desktop/wallpaper settings?
<JontheEchidna> plasma-desktop lives in kdebase-workspace
<shtylman> I got that far
<shtylman> is the app that handles its settings also there?
<JontheEchidna> plasma-desktop handles it itself
<shtylman> gotcha
<shtylman> k...lemme see if I can find the .ui files and the code :)
<JontheEchidna> do you want to edit the wallpaper config interface itself?
<JontheEchidna> each wallpaper plugin provides their own configuration interface for the dialog
<shtylman> wallpaper plugin?
<shtylman> yea...I wanna take a look at the interface itself
<shtylman> there is a small bug I wanna try to fix
<JontheEchidna> ok, so there are different wallpaper plugins. The default one is "image"
<JontheEchidna> in kdeplasma-addons lives some extra ones like marble, virus, weather, etc
<JontheEchidna> you'll find the plain image plugin in workspace/plasma/generic/wallpapers/image
<shtylman> ooo
<shtylman> thank you
<JontheEchidna> I'd be interested to hear about the bug too, as I maintain the weather wallpaper plugin which shares a bit of code with the image plugin ;-)
<shtylman> k
<shtylman> its not a major bug or anything
<shtylman> but for some reason the same wallpaper appears twice in the list
<shtylman> it happens after I add the wallpaper
<JontheEchidna> hrmhrm
<shtylman> and then modify the wallpaper
<shtylman> and add it again... I think
<shtylman> but basically... I think the list could be smart enough to detect same paths
<shtylman> for the underlying wallpaper
<shtylman> and not add it again.. inho
<shtylman> *imho
<JontheEchidna> yeah, you'd want to check the createConfigurationInterface(); in image.cpp, as well as backgroundlistmodel.cpp
<shtylman> so I wanna see what code does that
<shtylman> k
<shtylman> is there a good way to test those changes?
<shtylman> obviously I compile it
<shtylman> but do I have to restart my whole kde session?
<JontheEchidna> plasmawallpaperviewer -p image
<shtylman> :)
<shtylman> so I think I know what happens
<shtylman> when you add a new wallpaper by drag and drop
<shtylman> I think it is copied to the .kde/share/wallpapers directory
<shtylman> but when you open it using the "open" button of the dialog it is not
<shtylman> so it is basicall possible to have the same wallpaper twice or at least make it look that way
<shtylman> or the other way around.... but at some point... a wallpaper got copied to that directory
<shtylman> also... once an image has been dragged and dropped
<shtylman> it is not possible to do so again
<shtylman> even if the image has changed
<shtylman> it makes a cache of it?
<shtylman> nvm... maybe it didn't pick up my update time ... cause it worked the second time
<shtylman> ok...so here is the interesting part
<shtylman> what happens is this:
<shtylman> from a folder view... I drag and drop the wallpaper image
<shtylman> this causes it to be copied into .kde/share/wallpaper
<shtylman> but if I drag and drop from dolphin... it does not
<shtylman> that copy causes it to appear multiple times in the list
#kubuntu-devel 2010-01-02
<prefrontal>  how do I downgrade from KDE SC 4.4 Beta 2 to 4.3.4, using the Kubuntu PPA?
<prefrontal> it's extremely buggy for me. i can't get any work done
<shtylman> ScottK: ^
<jjesse> evening
<JontheEchidna> shtylman: any opinions on http://imagebin.ca/view/MP_RTspx.html and http://imagebin.ca/view/YxE2rcyo.html ? (I tweaked the colors a bit to match the multicolor logo)
<JontheEchidna> eww, jpeg
 * JontheEchidna bops ksnapshot
<shtylman> yea... that quality failed :)
<shtylman> I thought about multicolor.. and tried it
<shtylman> I couldn't get it to be right with the lighter color
<shtylman> that bottom circle always dissapears on me
<shtylman> I want to do multi color as well
<shtylman> if we can do something about that lighter color
 * shtylman is almost done hacking to make plasoids snap to one another for easier alignment
<JontheEchidna> I must admit it is a bit hard to see
<shtylman> yea
<shtylman> thats the only downside
<JontheEchidna> less so with my white christmas background... but... ;P
<shtylman> heh
<nixternal> hola
<nixternal> JontheEchidna: I don't like the multicolor logo, I like the one shtylman linked to in his email -> http://apt.shtylman.com/stuff/kubuntu.png
<nixternal> or, maybe a whitish/ghost version of that one
 * nixternal crawls back into the hangover hold
<nixternal> hol
<nixternal> hole
<nixternal> jeesh
<JontheEchidna> lol
<jjesse> that bad eh nixternal?
<nixternal> yeah, way to much useless celebrating last night
<nixternal> back to chilling...peace out homeskillets
<jjesse> peace out bro nixternal
<shtylman> JontheEchidna: see the new email the that thread?
<shtylman> he does have a point about the small gears
<shtylman> but I don't like the logo he presents either
<shtylman> also...I tried a shadow... and it didn't look as good as the white glow with air plasma
<nixternal> shtylman: link me to that icon...I want to see how it looks with different plasma themes
<nixternal> as I am not a fan of air
<shtylman> which icon?
<nixternal> the one you linked in your screenshot
<nixternal> jeesh, the other kubuntu logo is just awful
<nixternal> if the logo doesn't look good small, fix the gears so it does....that logo is like the village people's version doing the
<nixternal> Y
<nixternal> A
<nixternal> M
<nixternal> C
<shtylman> hahahaha
<shtylman> http://apt.shtylman.com/stuff/kubuntu-menu.tar.gz
<shtylman> that has various sizes
<shtylman> I should also post the source
<shtylman> dunno why I never packaged that up
<nixternal> I don't need the sources..I suck at artwork anyways
<shtylman> kk
<nixternal> looks good with aya, slim-glow, and another one...stupid workspace must have crashed because now my theme isn't changing, and I have a god awful theme going
<shtylman> hahaha
<nixternal> man, slim-glow with a smoked icon would look gorgeous
<shtylman> smoked?
<shtylman> I thought about slim glow with insides removed
<shtylman> is that what you mean?
<nixternal> kind of
<nixternal> actually, yeah, that would be exactly what I am thinking now that I think about
<nixternal> that would be whicked hot
<nixternal> just a white glow outline
<nixternal> umf
 * nixternal heads out for real this time
<nixternal> later
 * shtylman has finished snap feature for plasma :)
<wilder> hiall, I'm trying to understand what could go wrong with https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206890
<ubottu> KDE bug 206890 in general "krunner doesn't reliably show newly installed applications" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<wilder> can it be the case that kbuildsyscoca4 is (or was) not run after installing arora?
<KOPRajs> hi there... I'm trying to diasable UnredirectFullscreen option in kwinrc in Kubuntu 9.10... there was a bug for this (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-default-settings/+bug/327199) and it was fixed in Jaunty but in Karmic there is the same bug again... what more even when I change the settings as suggested it doesn't work... what can I do? Where can I find patches applied to kwin in Kubuntu?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 327199 in kubuntu-default-settings "(KDE) Fullscreen applications flickering with effects ON" [Undecided,Fix released]
<mgraesslin> KOPRajs: have you restared kwin after changing the option?
<KOPRajs> mgraesslin: yes, of course... I've tried even rebooting
<KOPRajs> still fullscreen windows are not redirected
<KOPRajs> one more question... I needed to use my swap partition as transfer file system for Mac OS X so I changed it's ID and made hfs fs on it... Kubuntu of course started to claim it cannot mount all mounts from fstab upon boot... so far expected
<KOPRajs> everything worked but system had no swap
<KOPRajs> then I changed partition's ID back and made a swap on it again
<KOPRajs> Kubuntu still didn't mount it because of different UUID
<KOPRajs> so I edit /etc/fstab and wrote new UUID for swap there
<KOPRajs> now Kubuntu automatically mounts swap upon boot and everything works but while booting the Usplash falls to verbose mode every boot
<KOPRajs> why?
<KOPRajs> there is no error or warning (at least I didn't notice any)
<KOPRajs> but in the moment where kernel initialize is complete and Usplash should show booting progress bar with 0% it falls to console
<freeflying> KOPRajs: this channel is not for supporting
<DaskREEch> Cool
<DaskREEch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/FeatureStatus
 * DaskREEch winces at online services
<jussi01> DaskREEch: youll probably find theres a super big project there that when they have finished it will eat a huge chunk
<DaskREEch> Which project?
<DaskREEch>  Hooray kernel team though
<Mamarok> is there a mesa 7.7 available for Karmic?
<DaskREEch> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1368214
<Zorael> I'm looking at Karmic's Xsetup and it seems backwards. If kdmrc is set up to not auto login, it displays ksplashx. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
<Zorael> The line goes: if grep -q ^AutoLoginEnable=true /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc; then ksplashx Default & fi
<Zorael> er, missing a ! there.
<Zorael> if ! grep -q ^AutoLoginEnable=true /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc; then ksplashx Default & fi
<Zorael> If not enabled, then display
<jussi01> DaskREEch: I suspect its the music store, no? ;)
<DaskREEch> jussi01: FOSS Music Release Early Release out of tune!
<jussi01> lol
<ScottK> Lure: Would you please have a look at Bug 497562
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 497562 in kubuntu-ppa "[PPA] On newest PPA beta (KDE 4.4beta1) digikam crashes every time at startup" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497562
<ScottK> Riddell: I said I'd put 4.3.4 in karmic-backports if no one objected.  It wasn't clear to me if you were objecting or not?
<Riddell> ScottK: just pondering. I think that's fine, go ahead
<Riddell> there may wel be a 4.3.5 at some point too
<ScottK> If it every gets to the no regressions point we can upload to updates
<ScottK> updates/proposed
<amichair> ScottK: where would I find a list of known regressions to decide if I should get the backport?
<ScottK> amichair: There is a kubuntu-ppa project that gets some bug reports, some bug reports get in under Ubuntu in LP, and sometimes it comes up on IRC and mail lists.  No single place.
<amichair> :-/
<amichair> ScottK: in that case, is there anything in particular in kde 4.3.4 backport to be afraid of?
<ScottK> The one I remember is people complaining spell checking no longer worked.
<amichair> ScottK: ok, no biggie :-)
<amichair> I'm mostly hopeful that the huge memory leak in plasma-desktop is fixed. The bug report comment says it might be in 4.3.4.
<jussi01>     
<DaskREEch>  
<Quintasan> \o
<Lure> ScottK: I would suspect digikam needs to be rebuild with 4.4beta2 again :-(
 * Lure is not sure why is digikam so linked with kde releases
<ScottK> Lure: Can you take care of that?
 * ScottK guesses unstable kdegraphics abi.
<Lure> ScottK: I can - I planned to work on digikam 1.0 backport anyhow, will then do it for beta ppa first
<Lure> ScottK: you are probably right
<Lure> ScottK: btw, I did look into debian-science merge before xmas, but got confused with how to apply my changes
<Lure> ScottK: will probably ask you for some guidance in next days
<ScottK> OK
<Lure> ScottK: quick question: if I need to change the package to backport, do I just propose debdiff to backports bug?
<ScottK> Lure: Yes.
 * jussi01 wonders just how long the virtuoso guys will be with the release
<Lure> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> Lure: If it's a package you can upload, you should be able to upload it to *-backports (it will then have to be reivewed/accepted by a backporter - ping me for that).
 * Lure thinks we need better naming for ppa packages - current -karmic in beta clashes with backports
<Lure> ScottK: I suspect that I can upload then (if my per-package/kubuntu-devel rights are also valid for karmic)
<ScottK> Should be.  Worth a try.
<DaskREEch> JontheEchidna: Heh you are in the top 3 on bko
<Riddell> wow, ubuntu-users has a lengthy thread subject of people just abusing each other, reminds me how lucky we are to have claydoh and Mamarok to keep things sane on k-u
<DaskREEch> Didn't know that bko had private bugs
<DaskREEch> Riddell: Isn't it the yearly get the abuse out thread?
<Riddell> DaskREEch: I think b.k.o got private bugs so that sysadmin could use a bug tracker
<DaskREEch> Ah ok. Fastest bug fixed is unviewable so that takes some of the fun out of it
 * Sput wonders why kubuntu doesn't package Virtuoso 5.12
<DaskREEch> Sput: Because we are waiting on 6.0.1
<Sput> yeah, but why? :)
<Sput> I mean, better package a slightly older version than having a half-broken KDE around...
<ScottK> IIRC we thought it'd be sooner than this.
<DaskREEch> Sput: You are welcome to do so if you like. I think someone already started.
<DaskREEch> Might be _Groo_
<Sput> DaskREEch: not a kubuntu packager :)
<Sput> or user even
<Riddell> "SymonHate (symonhate) wants to be a member of Package Archives for Kubuntu (kubuntu-ppa)" hmm, maybe not with a name like that
<Sput> I was just wondering, because I'm reading this in here a lot of time
<DaskREEch> Yeah but there was a full list of things to do and no one wanted to package and test Virtuoso and then have to redo it two days later
<Sput> I see
 * Sput isn't sure if there's a lot of difference between 5.x and 6.x so packaging a newer version will be a lot of work again
<Lure> ScottK: is https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/+archive/ppa still used for source-changes backports?
<ScottK> Lure: It was only ever used for testing.
<DaskREEch> Made a more more sense to package other things. And Debian has a 6.0.1 "package"  but there is no offcial release as yet
<DaskREEch>  I don't think anyone even knows why not
<ScottK> For actual backports, just upload to Ubuntu with karmic-backports as your target release.
<Lure> ScottK: ok, as I anyway test with my ppa
<Sput> DaskREEch: Gentoo packaged 6.0.0 first, then we figured out that it supposedly caused problems and packaged 5.0.12 too... but no idea as of why upstream is slacking either :/
<DaskREEch> 6.0.0 broke nepomuk. That's been fixed in code now supposedly and there is just people waiting around for a announcement
<DaskREEch> Of course until then no one is packaging incase they have some last minute crazy bug and change things again
<DaskREEch> I'd actually prefer that the prerelease 6.0.1 is packaged and tested privately at least
<Riddell> it wouldn't be a bad idea to have 5.x in, I looked at the suse packaging and there's some patches but nothing unusual.  of course unlike gentoo we have releases, there's no expectation that it'll work before april
<DaskREEch> Sput: you were talking about Koala specifically?
<Sput> Riddell: well, I suppose lucid users would be glad to have a working KDE 4.4 :)
<Sput> DaskREEch: nah, not really... I don't think KDE 4.3 really needs nepomuk (plus the sesame backend still works there)
<Sput> but 4.4 doesn't work without virtuoso
<DaskREEch> and virtuoso doesn't work :)
<DaskREEch> Touchy eh?
<Sput> well, 5.0.12 does :)
<Sput> quite fine actually, here
 * Sput needs to figure out why akonadi randomly complains about nepomuk not running, suspecting a race condition on startup
 * ScottK has nepomuk classified in "Stuff that makes his system annoyingly slow".
<Sput> ScottK: with sesame, certainly
 * Sput was able to finally remove all traces of java the other day
<Sput> from my system
<DaskREEch> Hmm actually I remember someone was talking about a Save/ Open with  /Open with other dialog for KDE 4.4
<DaskREEch> Did It missit? I just realised the dialog only offers me a single application
 * Lure will first test nepomuk/virtuoso speed before enabling digikam's nepomuk support
<DaskREEch> I'm testing bangarang and it's near useless without Nepomuk :(
<ryanakca> DaskREEch: Yeah. I'm stuck between virtuoso not being installable and not wanting to install sesame2/java on my netbook.
<DaskREEch> Which is why I think that the pre release debian package should be tested
<shtylman> ryanakca: do you still have the new kubuntu site mockup?
<DaskREEch> It's something and in my mind at least is some semblence of progress
<DaskREEch>  and the best thing that can happen is the final release is exactly the same and we can unveil hours after the announcement
<ryanakca> shtylman: Aye
<DaskREEch> Worst is that stuff needs to be changed and it has to be repackaged but with some known expectations of bugs/performance expectations
<Riddell> Lex79 has virtuoso here, I wonder if that works https://edge.launchpad.net/~alessandro-ghersi/+archive/staging
<ryanakca> shtylman: just a sec
<ryanakca> shtylman: http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/ofir-website.png
 * shtylman can't wait to see that go live :)
<ryanakca> shtylman: Nor can I :)
<Sput> ryanakca: if you're already running KDE 4.4, sesame wouldn't help you much, as Nepomuk refuses to use it (except for importing old data)
<Sput> that said, it seems to suck slightly (in particular for binary distros) that Nepomuk requires both sesame and Virtuoso to be able to import old data, hence one needs to drag the java stuff into the package to allow migration...
 * Sput likes the idea behind Akonadi/Nepomuk, but the implementation is wrecking havoc everywhere
<DaskREEch> Well I've never got Strigi working since KDE 4.0 so I have no data which I guess is a good thing now
 * ScottK likes android phone, gmail, akonadi-googledata, and automagically contacts move between his phone and his KAddressbook.
<DaskREEch> Does android auto add numbers that you call to the phone book?
<ScottK> No, but you can click on the number in the call log and add them very easily.
<Lure> ScottK: can you look at bug 502444 and give me ACK?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 502444 in karmic-backports "backport digikam 1.0.0-1ubuntu1 to Karmic " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/502444
<ScottK> Lure: Did you upload it already?
<Lure> ScottK: not, I would like you to at least review debdiff
<ScottK> OK
<Lure> otherwise I am ready to upload
<ScottK> Lure: main/universe doesn't matter for backports, so that change is unneeded.
<Lure> ScottK: oh, I didn't know that
<ScottK> No problem.  Fix that bit and then go ahead an upload.
<Lure> ScottK: it does not make a big change, as lqr is also in digikam source if not found on system
<ScottK> Lure: OK, but best to minimize the diff.
<Lure> ScottK: right, will do
<ScottK> Go ahead and ping me when you've uploaded.
<shtylman> ryanakca: what will happen first ... new site .. or lucid release?
<Riddell> new site please!
<shtylman> :)
<Riddell> ryanakca: can we convert to the new layout without the screenshot module?
<Riddell> or have you spoken to kees about the screenshot module at all?
<Lure> ScottK: [ubuntu/karmic-backports] digikam 2:1.0.0-1ubuntu1~karmic1 (Waiting for approval)
<ScottK> Looking
<ryanakca> Riddell, shtylman: To be honest, I've been somewhat neglecting my webmaster duties for the past month, school has been hectic. I'll get the theme fixed up tonight / tomorrow, show it to you and get back to prodding the sysadmins.
<Riddell> ryanakca: which theme?
<ryanakca> Riddell: The drupal one? Remove the screenshot module.
<Riddell> thanks
<shtylman> ryanakca: its all good... no worries .. we want you to pass your classes :)
<ScottK> Lure: Accepted.
<Lure> ScottK: thanks
<Lure> ScottK: I am testing kipi-plugins backport now, so it will be ready to upload soon
<ScottK> shtylman: You may want him to pass his classes.  I want a new web site.
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> OK
<shtylman> hahaha
 * DaskREEch looks jealously at Lynx users
<DaskREEch> Sput: Well there you go you have 6.0.1 ppa :)
 * DaskREEch votes for a new site in timeline with Lynx beta release
<shtylman> Riddell: how are we on touchpad config?
<Sput> DaskREEch: I don't really care, but I'm happy for your users :)
<Sput> DaskREEch: I assume it's a snapshot?
<DaskREEch> Sput: Yeah termed RC by the packager
<Sput> ok, good to know
<DaskREEch> and as mentioned. With a note that they are jsut waiting on a official release announcement (which I check for twice a day now) to bless it
<Sput> very well
<Riddell> shtylman: not sure, it's packaged I think but it probably needs a UI review and it could do with getting put into upstream
<Lure> ScottK: bug 502460 - uploading now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 502460 in karmic-backports "backport kipi-plugins 1.0.0-1ubuntu1 to Karmic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/502460
<Sput> sounds like Quassel, which sometimes waits weeks for an official release announcements because packages still need to be done :)
<shtylman> Riddell: what would it take to get it put upstream?
<Riddell> shtylman: the author needs to put it into kdereview and propose it on kde-core-devel
<shtylman> have we talked to the author about doing that?
<Quintasan> Hey guys can someone shorten the whole drama with Steve? I can't really make any sense from it
 * Lure does not understand it also...
<Riddell> shtylman: I think we did yes and he seemd to think it was a good idea but wasn't sure how to go about it
<ScottK> Quintasan: Steve is having some issues in his life and as a consequence upset some people.  He's taking a break to deal with said issues, but in the mean time is still pretty upset about the way he got treated.
<ScottK> (treated being in most people's assessment a not unreasonable reaction to his behavior)
 * Nightrose is sad about having sent him an extremely friendly email and getting a reply (at least without fullquote to the devel list
<Nightrose> i'll give up at this point tbh
<ScottK> Hopefully he will deal with his problems and come back and be productive.
<shtylman> Riddell: do we have to have someone follow up with him? was someone on our end assigned to it?
 * ScottK hopes everyone else will be able to let the current mess be in the past if he does.
<shtylman> ScottK: never knew there could be this much drama :)
<Riddell> shtylman: nobody assigned on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
<Lure> ScottK: [ubuntu/karmic-backports] kipi-plugins 1.0.0-1ubuntu1~karmic1 (Waiting for approval)
<Nightrose> ScottK: yes hopefully - one of the reasons i emailed him was to let him know that he can come back any time he feels he has taken care of his current problems
<ScottK> Lure: Accepted.
<Lure> ScottK: thanks again
<shtylman> Riddell: does taco want to look at it?
<shtylman> since he did packaging?
<ScottK> We got some nice weekend backlog going on the buildd's ....
<neversfelde> ScottK: +1, Steve helped me a lot to get in touch with KDE packaging
<Riddell> shtylman: probably best to check in with him on the status before doing anything
<shtylman> check in with taco? or the author
<shtylman> Riddell: also... how do you want right to left support to work in the installer? what is broken about it?
<shtylman> do you just want the tabs on the right side?
<shtylman> basically ... flip everything?
<shtylman> nixternal: the feedback applet doesn't work for me ... :(
<Riddell> shtylman: I think the forwards/backwards buttons are the wrong way around
<shtylman> k
<Riddell> forwards should be on the left pointing left, backwards on the right pointing right
<Sput> o_O
<Sput> isn't forward always pointing right?
<Sput> ah, rtl... hm
<Riddell> not if you read right to left
<Sput> what does KDE do?
<Riddell> loads the correct icon for the locale
<Riddell> and runs apps in --reverse
<Riddell> but I seem to remember ubiquity doesn't do this
<Riddell> goodness knows what way the Mongolians think is forwards :)
#kubuntu-devel 2010-01-03
<amichair> fwiw, I recall annoying experiences with MSIE in RTL, where the back/forward buttons were indeed reversed. That is to say, that's how it is expected to be. And it's very annoying.
<Riddell> ah, someone who actually knows about it :)
<Riddell> amichair: you don't use KDE in Hebrew then?
<amichair> hell no :-)
 * ScottK was going to 'christen' amichair as the Kubuntu RTL expert but then realized that would be wrong on several levels.
<shtylman> hahahaha
<amichair> hehehe
<amichair> ScottK: u usually seem very serious around here... you should make more funnies! :-D
<seele_> ScottK make more funnies? that wouldnt be very ScottK-like hehe
<seele_> ScottK: i think the next linux chix meeting is a spa world so unfortunately i dont think i can invite you ;P
 * seele_ doesnt think she will go either
<ScottK> I think I'm funnier in person than I am on IRC.
<seele_> irc is all business, and you usually only see people you know/like in person so it's easier
<Riddell> but preferably not in the area of comparing Abrahamic religions, that way social disaster awaits!
<Riddell> seele_: ooh, any hot tub? :)
<shtylman> I think ScottK is a comedian :)
<seele_> Riddell: well it is a giant asian bath house so there is a giant hole filled with hot water
<Riddell> hmm, maybe I should come to DC
<seele_> Riddell: it's separated, not coed
<shtylman> haha
<seele_> and i thought you were already coming to DC
<Riddell> depends if you'll have me :)
<seele_> oh? since when am i putting you up? i thought you already made arrangements :P
<DaskREEch> seele_: They have a single seperated hole?
<DaskREEch> Sounds enlightened
<amichair> ScottK: smileys to the rescue... if u say something with a smile, write it with a smile! it's as close as it gets to communicating attitude and not just words...
 * ScottK thinks he's a couple of decades too old for lots of smileys.
<amichair> 'lots' is relative :-)
<shtylman> ScottK: never to old :) :) :) :) :) :D
<al> putting smileys behind your jokes means you're either not confident about the joke or the audience :-)
<al> (choose one)
<amichair> in person, that's true. in e-communication, it's sometimes just hard to express tiny nuances of voice and gesture... so you're stuck with crude smileys
<shtylman> al: what if your arn't confident about both?
<shtylman> am I limited to just choose one?
<al> then you're limited to this smiley :P
<shtylman> noted :P
<amichair> shtylman: was that supposed to be funny? can't tell!
<shtylman> hahaha
<shtylman> everything I say is supposed to be funny ... if it isn't I failed :(
<shtylman> al: oooo what about the use of frowny faces?
<al> i don't think i know frowny smileys
 * DaskREEch laughs outargeously at shtylman's sad face
<ScottK> :-(
<amichair> al: you must be enlightened!
<shtylman> thank you.. thank you.. im here all week
 * Sput wonders if there is a "linux dude meeting" too
<Sput> you know, at some bar where we can run around in underwear and drink beer and fart loudly
<Sput> :)
<ScottK> That's pretty much all of them
<Sput> nah, there usually is the token girl preventing the men from forgetting all manners :(
<Quintasan> Sput: why don't you start a one? :D
<Quintasan> "Geek's Hideout" or something like this?
<seele_> Sput: our "linux chix" group in DC is pretty progressive. men often show up to the meetings
 * Quintasan still a minor though
<nixternal> Sput: our LUG had that so-called "Token", but she ended up surprising us all, especially me, and I am a sailor
<seele_> if it wasnt i wouldnt go.. i dont like uber feminism stuff
<nixternal> I am with you seele_ on that...my cousin is an uber-feminist, but she is uber-everything she is involved with... vegan, and some other thing she is in to...I try to stay away as like my somewhat open mind
<nixternal> as I like my somewhat open mind
<seele_> nixternal: feminist AND vegan? i'm sorry.
 * Sput has had too much exposure to feminism (the bad kind) lately
<nixternal> she is hardcore feminist though, like I swear, she is one of their extermist
<seele_> veganism is like vegetarianism + religion
<nixternal> vegans don't bother me, most of my friends are vegans here in chicago
<Sput> thank $deity there are a lot of open-minded, smart women in my vicinity.
<seele_> ah, i have a few vegan friends and they are vegan nazis
<ScottK> Sput: I've been to a DC linuxchix meeting.
<nixternal> I will be nice and eat whatever they eat, but if any of them start shit, I will order a raw ass hamburger
<seele_> ScottK: youve been to a few
<Sput> hm, I didn't know vegans could survive in open air
<ScottK> seele_: No, just one.  The others were KDE events.
<ScottK> That and your birthday party.
<seele_> ScottK: ah, they all blend together
<seele_> maybe because most of them are at the pirate bar for one reason or another
<Sput> nixternal: I have those nice pictures on my cell, showing my plate at a recent slaughter festival
<nixternal> hehe
<Riddell> I'd turn vegan just to wind up nixternal, but I'd miss honey too much
<Sput> or whatever you call that in English where you get basically all parts of a pig in edible form
<seele_> ScottK: although, i found a much better bar across the street from piratz and they have tater tots
<nixternal> Riddell: haha, vegans don't bother me, it is as seele_ put it, vegan nazis
<nixternal> I do the vegetarian thing from time-to-time
 * ScottK was really bummed he had to drive home from the birthday party.
<nixternal> as a matter of fact, at UDS Jaunty I was in my vegetarian mode
 * Sput had a discussion with a militant veg* in some other channel recently, he tried talking me into ethics and morales
<Sput> he refused to answer why plants should be worth less than animals though :(
<ScottK> seele_: Really?  Maybe it won't be too scary for Elizabeth ....
<Riddell> environmental arguments would work better I'd think
<nixternal> any bar with tator tots is the win!
<seele_> ScottK: yeah, it's just a typical pub. much better beer too
 * ScottK used to know a guy who was a vegetarian.  It wasn't because he loved animals.  It was because he hated plants.
<Riddell> what are tator tots?
<ScottK> <rimshot>
<seele_> Riddell: erm.. trying to remember the euro name for it
<seele_> Riddell: kindof like fried mashed potato balls, whatever those are called
<nixternal> Riddell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tater_Tots
<Sput> ScottK: never having to drive home is one of the advantages of our public transportation here :)
<seele_> Riddell: except the potatoes are dices instead of mashed and formed into blocks and then fried
<Riddell> hash browns
<nixternal> Riddell: right
<nixternal> but all mushed together
<ScottK> Riddell: Similar.  Mostly a different shape.
 * Sput loves 24/7 train service in all areas of town
<nixternal> Sput: you would love chicago then :)
<seele_> Riddell: croquettes
<Sput> nixternal: nah, I'm fine here :)
<Riddell> seele_: naw those are all posh with little breadcrumbs and stuff
<nixternal> seele_: croquettes are similar but different :)
<Sput> seele_: not quite, at least not if I'm translating the word to German :)
<nixternal> those are like potatoes and sometimes meat
<seele_> nixternal: yeah, theyre like mashed potatoes instead of diced
<nixternal> they are damn good nonetheless
<seele_> nixternal: huh, never had meat ones.. i've only seen them listed as potatoes
<seele_> oh, wp says crabcakes are considered croquettes
<seele_> well then
<Sput> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KrokettenalsBeilage.jpg  <-- German-style Kroketten
<nixternal> oh my, crabcakes \o/
<nixternal> that is about the only thing I miss from living out there
<nixternal> or going to the gas station and getting a grocery bag full of steamed crabs
<seele_> nixternal: almost all the crabs in the chesapeake are dead or growing 3rd claws so it wont be a maryland thing for much longer
<nixternal> lol
<ScottK> 3rd claw just means more to eat.
<nixternal> hahahaha
<Sput> ScottK: so does a cow.
<seele_> lol
<nixternal> seele_: BG&E killing the bay?
<seele_> what's bg&e?
<nixternal> baltimore gas & electric
<ScottK> Baltimore Gas and Electric
<seele_> ah, no
<nixternal> at least that's what it was when I lived out there
<nixternal> or the power plant in pg county
<seele_> actually, i think theyve determined it is the farms that is the primary problem
<ScottK> Pesky farmers insist on fertilzing their crops
<seele_> fertilizer runoff is ruining the watch and changing the bio an ph levels so things that should grow wont grow and things that shouldnt grow are growing
<nixternal> calvert cliffs
<nixternal> ahh yeah, that was a big thing in southern md when i lived there
<Sput> they should just all use Monsanto crops. Problem solved.
<ScottK> nixternal: No, that warms the water in winter so marine life can flourish year round.
<seele_> *water
<amichair> smileys, funnies, tubs, parties, (vegans), yummies... what a great year! and it's only been 3 days!
<nixternal> ScottK: haha, we used to swim in the outflow of calvert cliffs
<nixternal> a) no jelly fish, and b) it was always warm
<Sput> guh. jelly fish are the winners of our current water poisoning... and they'll probably come out on top of all the changes we cause in sea life :/
<Sput> ah well, they have been around for 500 million years, so they're doing something right
<nixternal> man, I just looked at Patuxent River NAS, my last duty station...seems it has changed quite a bit on google maps
<nixternal> the burm to the firing range is still there though, but the range itself is gone
<amichair> is there anyone here from outside us/uk/de?
 * ScottK isn't sure how Riddell would answer that one.
<ScottK> Not sure if he's willing to give that much acknowledgement to the English overlords.
<shtylman> haha
<ScottK> jussi01 is from .au, but lives in .fi
<ScottK> txwikinger is from .de, but lives in .ca.
<ScottK> rgreening is an actual .ca person
<ScottK> Tm_T is in .fi
<ScottK> Mamarok is from Switzerlan.
<ScottK> d
<ScottK> There are a number that are.
<amichair> interesting
<Riddell> we'll get our referendum this year, maybe, possibly
<amichair> wonder why it's mostly the same countries. is it a social norm of giving? high enough pay to afford free-time contribution? too many cs students?
<nixternal> heh, all I have is free-time, but with 0 pay :(
<ScottK> A certain proficiency in English is also a requirement.
<amichair> ScottK: good point. although most computer-literates have decent English, I'd guess...
<dhillon-v10> nixternal, hi :) happy new year
<nixternal> happy new year to you as well
<dhillon-v10> nixternal, so how's it going
<nixternal> amichair: you would be surprised...most of the people in our LUG here is very computer-literate, but horrid with english :)
<shtylman> amichair: I would say it is more related to the technology of the environment around the person than any particular social norms
<nixternal> a lot of Russians here in Chicago for CS I have noticed
<shtylman> ScottK: do you think of people by their tld names ? :)
<nixternal> dhillon-v10: it's going :)
<amichair> shtylman: technology of the environment?
<ScottK> shtylman: Depends.  Sometimes.  Sometimes I just hate typing more than I have to.
<nixternal> and the Spaniards are starting to take over CS here, especially at UIC...they get a killer job out of school and then retreat back to Spain after making a couple million, like my good friend Roberto
<shtylman> amichair: yea... places with high prevalence of technology are more likely to see people doing open source
<shtylman> you have to be exposed to it first
<ScottK> shtylman: I do read IRC in the voice of the person who's typing if I've met them in person.
<nixternal> he was one of the head developers behind Motorola's Droid...once they released the product, he quit Motorola and moved back to Spain
<shtylman> and that is likely to happen with places that are more developed
<shtylman> and where you don't have to worry about just getting food and water
<shtylman> I would say that free time figures a bit less into it... but obviously does play a major role overall
<ScottK> nixternal: Clearly Motorola isn't exploiting their workers enough if he could do that.
<Nightrose> amichair: not too long ago i read about exactly this and they came to the conclusion that people in those countriesare more likely to do volunteer work in a broad sense and therefor also a lot of them go into open source
<amichair> shtylman: well I'm not talking about 3rd world countries...
<nixternal> ScottK: oh he made a few mil then just took off
<Nightrose> whereas it is rather uncommon in for example japan
<amichair> Nightrose: did they cite a reason?
<Nightrose> i don't remember tbh
<amichair> I get the feeling it's a social/cultural thing to a large degree
<Nightrose> yes
<Nightrose> anyway - time to go to bed for me - nini :)
<Riddell> night Nightrose
<Nightrose> o/
<amichair> night rose :-)
<ScottK> Oh, right.  Nightrose is from .at.
<ScottK> No, that was apachelogger. Sorry
<amichair>  I tend to mix up at and au. took me a while to get used to ch/cn as well
<nixternal> everyone here is from earth
<nixternal> half the time I can't remember which country I am from, so don't expect me to remember what country you are from :)
<amichair> nixternal: doesn't always seem like it :-)
<ScottK> nixternal: Except sebas.  He's too beautiful to be a native.
<nixternal> oh yeah, I am from Chicago, it is so great that it should be a country
<nixternal> now that we got barack out of it...we just need to 'sudo apt-get --purge' a couple more politicians and we will be the win :)
<ScottK> The list of ones to keep would be shorter.
<Riddell> some people also confuse gb/uk, tsk
<nixternal> ScottK: good point
<amichair> holy begeezes! .gb is a real tld - I did not know that.
<Riddell> blame ISO
<Riddell> well I'm down to 75 unread e-mails, which isn't bad considering I started this evening with > 1500, time to snooze
<amichair> night Riddell
<Sput> amichair: so is .us, a little known fact :)
<amichair> Sput: nah, that's pretty well known
<Sput> I actually know very few .us sites I visit
<Sput> most are still .com/.net/.org/.biz etc
<ScottK> .us is not new at all.
<amichair> Sput: sure, but then that is true worldwide
<Sput> not new, but not very common L)
<Sput> :)
<amichair> welp, it's way past my bedtime
 * amichair bids a wonderful night to people of all tlds
<DaskREEch> nixternal: Isn't Chicago BECAUSE of politicians?
<Quintasan> hmmm
<Quintasan> anyone has problems with kvm?
<Quintasan> bug #500218
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 500218 in qemu-kvm "*** glibc detected *** qemu: free(): invalid pointer: 0x0000000000e44b10 ***" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/500218
<Quintasan> can anyone reproduce this? So far nixternal and I experience this bug
<DaskREEch> Ahmmm
<DaskREEch> Does Konqueror use Nepomuk for history now or something?
<ScottK> Quintasan: Karmic or Lucid?
<Quintasan> ScottK: Karmic, running lucid guest, dhillon-v10 already told me what's going on and I'm going to learn running debugger etc. to provide him with stacktrace
<ScottK> What did he tell you?
<Quintasan> <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, I did see a conversation in the upstream kernel about glibc creating invalid pointers at the first available slot in the memory (0x0000000000e44b10) which is basically 0001 and its deleting the memory which causes it to crash, possible to run it from gdb
<dhillon-v10> ScottK, it may be possible to find more info using gdb
<Quintasan> oh well, that's me for realising he's here @_@
<Quintasan> not realising even
<ScottK> Quintasan: Is this it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eglibc/+bug/425723
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 425723 in eglibc "kdevelop assert failure: *** glibc detected *** kdevelop: free(): invalid pointer: 0xbfc22c44 ***" [High,In progress]
<Quintasan> ScottK: might be related but I can't say for sure
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, alright let's try this out first: gdb -p 12456 where 12456 is the pid of qemu
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, you have to start qemu first and then this command in a new tab maybe, then pass in the command that crashes qemu
<Quintasan> dhillon-v10: the problem is that running qemu does nothing and running the command is killing the qemu the next moment so I quiet don't know how to get the pid :/
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, give me another moment, let me install qemu and try to see what I can do there :)
<ScottK> Quintasan: If you are feeling adventurous, dgetlp http://launchpadlibrarian.net/37155676/eglibc_2.10.1-0ubuntu16.dsc will get you the source for the proposed eglibc fix for the bug I showed you.
<ScottK> Don't blame me if it eats your computer though.
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, alright so this is what I did, there are no debugging symbols (sorry) but we might be able to get something: in the first tab of terminal: qemu then in the second tab run ps -A and find the pid of qemu, then in the same tab run gdb -p <pid> then go back to qemu and pass your crashing command
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, wait there are symbols, just a sec.
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, sudo apt-get install libvirt0-dbg that's the symbols
<Quintasan> dhillon-v10: hmm, can I pass parameters only?
<Quintasan> dhillon-v10: you see, I'm running it like this -> kvm -m 512 -hda /home/quintasan/Sauce/kvm/lucid.img -usb -usbdevice tablet
<Quintasan> dhillon-v10: nvm, used set args
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, alright so first install the symbols and I am guessing when you give that command qemu crashes ?
<Quintasan> dhillon-v10: http://pastebin.com/m53bc1878
<Quintasan> yeah, I set the parameters then runned it again with "start"
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, :) nicely done, give me another moment and then we can figure out what's causing the issue
<ScottK> nixternal: Is the powerpc box turned on?
<Zorael> What package should bugs affecting Solid be filed against? kdebase-workspace?
<Zorael> (Thought I'd tag LP #362182 with it, since the Amarok crew says it just obeys Solid, and Solid doesn't do fuse mounts.)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 362182 in amarok "Support for iPhone-like devices in Amarok 2" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/362182
<ScottK> Zorael: You're much better off filing bugs like that at bugs.kde.org.
<Quintasan1> hmm
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, SIGABRT is signal number 6 which tells the program to abort and release the memory it occupied before, and as you can see the dbg thread (0x7ffff0a90910) was only a few blocks away from the one that crashed. Did kvm/qemu release a patch anytime soon
<dhillon-v10> * s/any time soon/recently
<Quintasan> I wonder
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, let me check upstream :) it could be like a bug-fix or an optimization patch that causes this issue
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, it says that parts of kvm are already present in the kernel, I don't think we had any kernel updates recently, did we?
<Quintasan> In the past month I would say no
<Quintasan> but I might have forgotten
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, and that's when you started experiencing the crash right
<Quintasan> last update is 07 December
<Quintasan> hmm, that would be somewhere around
 * Quintasan got himself together after xmas and new years parties and did some work
<Quintasan> :P
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, alright thanks for that info. I'll need a little more time to check what's going on
<Quintasan> dhillon-v10: sooo it would be good idea to look around and then backport or update the kernel?
<Quintasan> dhillon-v10: no problem, if you need more testing/breaking feel free to poke me
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, don't know it could be another library/program installed on your computer that is doing it, sorry I am still looking for the source of this problem
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, alright will do :)
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, I cleaned the coffee :D
<Quintasan> took you a while :P
 * Quintasan hands cookies with some coffee to dhillon-v10
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, I spilled it on the carpet so :)
<Quintasan> I'm looking forward to breaking debian on KVM ;)
<nixternal> ScottK: no it isn't, want me to turn it on for you?
<nixternal> oh well, turned it on anyways, should be up in less than a minute
<ScottK> nixternal: Yes please.  I love it when things get turned on by you
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> Thanks
<nixternal> haha, pervert!
<nixternal> I was watching ricky gervais yet again
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, mind if we continue tomorrow, I have to go eat dinner
<Quintasan> dhillon-v10: I'm afraid to be busy, it's sunday 04:30 here :D
<dhillon-v10> Quintasan, alright I'll email you then when I find a solution/fix for this problem
<Quintasan> dhillon-v10: Thanks.
 * ScottK is always tempted to as, "Do your parent know you are up so late?", but then realizes he knows the answer.
<ScottK> as/ask
<Quintasan> ScottK: Hmm, That's fairly interesting. What's the answer? :D
<ScottK> I'm figuring the chances they know are low.
<dhillon-v10> later guys, bye
<Quintasan> dhillon-v10: \o
<ScottK> Or at least they pretend not to know.
<ScottK> Because if the officially noticed, then they'd have to put a stop to it.
<ScottK> That's my guess anyway.
<Quintasan> ScottK: Oh well, my father know and I suppose if he knows then my mother knows as well. It's not like I'm sitting to this hour everyday
<Quintasan> knows*
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> So maybe I don't know.
<Quintasan> I just go and tell him that I will be staying up late cause I have to do $(something) and he doesn't mind
<Quintasan> I also guess that up to this time $(something) was not trivial
<Quintasan> Saying that I might go to bed as well.
<ScottK> Sounds like you have a good relationship with your parents.
<ScottK> Good night.
 * ScottK notes Kubuntu Netbook made asiego's end of year KDE summary ....
<seele_> AARRGGHH
<DaskREEch> seele_: indeed
<DaskREEch> seele_: what's up?
<shtylman> our oxygen index.theme file is borked
<shtylman> it is missing the 64/actions and 128/actions entries
<shtylman> this is for lucid btw
<shtylman> its fixed in kde svn trunk
<shtylman> but just be on the lookout for any bug reports related to icon scaling
<seele_> wtf how do i edit the TODO wiki page?
<seele_> i click on edit and it gives me the TOC file
<shtylman> did you go to the right todo page?
<seele_> whatever is in the topic
<shtylman> tisk tisk... someone didn't read? :)
<shtylman> "Editing: Make edits at Kubuntu/Todo/Lucid"
<shtylman> at the top of the todo page from the topic
<seele_> oh. duh :)
<shtylman> ;)
<ScottK> shtylman: Usability bug.
<shtylman> hahahhaha
<seele_> DaskREEch: not much, about to go to bed
<DaskREEch> seele_: That's a very impassioned to bed rally cry :)
<DaskREEch> Well I shall follow suit
<DaskREEch> AARRGGHH!
<ScottK> Bed missing?
 * ScottK how now read mail and knows what the argh was.
<ScottK> how/has
<amichair> JontheEchidna: howdy ho
<amichair> JontheEchidna: any feedback/issues with kubuntu-notification-helper?
<jussi01> amichair: any further thoughts on my menu system?
<amichair> jussi01: only that u can use the mouse wheel to spin a circle around if u want to :-)
<amichair> did u have any progress?
<jussi01> amichair: no, havent had a chance to get back to it. However, while I can make mockups and gimp stuff, I still dont have coding skills
<amichair> it's never too late to acquire them :-)
<amichair> maybe u can post them here again (or in the dev list?), get some more feedback from others
<jussi01> amichair: Ill be honest with you, i have a million things on my plate at the moments, so thats not going to happen (ie. the ircc, work, annoying people about bugs etc)
<jussi01> amichair: yeah, I think I will tomorrow, might try to get a better mockup done first
<amichair> and again, kudos for the innovation :-)
<amichair> jussi01: I think for a search interface it may be problematic (seele had some good points), but for a fixed or small menu, it can be pretty neat
<KOPRajs> where can I find what patches are being applied to sources before compiling packages in the repository?
<ScottK> KOPRajs: For a core Kubuntu (KDE) package or in general?
<JontheEchidna> amichair: I've not seen any so far. I think that I just need to get a second beta out there and get it on the alpha 2 CD
<amichair> JontheEchidna: cool :-)
<amichair> JontheEchidna: and how have you been?
<JontheEchidna> pretty good. slept in this morningt
<JontheEchidna> stayed up too late watching the last part of the Doctor Who special :x
<Quintasan> @_@
 * Quintasan yawn
<Quintasan> +s
<Quintasan> Hi by the way :P
<KOPRajs> ScottK: right now I want to know what patches are applied to kwin in my stable Kubuntu 9.10
<ScottK> KOPRajs: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdebase-workspace/ubuntu/files/head:/debian/patches/
<mgraesslin> AFAIK there are no patches to kwin
<ScottK> That's current Lucid.  You'll be able to see from the history what was there for Karmic.
<KOPRajs> ScottK: ok, thank you very much
<KOPRajs> mgraesslin: I just wanted to be sure since I cannot find any other reaseon why my kwin ignores UnredirectFullscreen option in kwinrc...
<seele> i'm sick of feeding the troll.. where are the rest of the council members
<shadeslayer> hi anyone here?
<shadeslayer> oh well i just wanted to say that amarok lacks one of the build deps, libssl-dev,its not installed when one does : sudo apt-get build-dep amarok. ive reported a bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/502627
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 502627 in amarok "amarok source lacks a build dependency " [Undecided,New]
<shadeslayer> thanks :)
<Lure> ScottK: around? have time to discuss debian-science merge?
<shtylman> seele: but if you don't feed them... they starve :)
<shtylman> then PETA might get involved
 * jussi01 hugs seele. 
<ScottK> Lure: I'll be around off and on most of the day.
<Lure> ScottK: ok: quick question - did you run make dist when doing merge (as it messes the things for me) or did you just manual edit also autogenerated files (like debian/control)
<ScottK> Lure: IIRC I just edited debian/control.
<Lure> ScottK: problem is that make dist on lucid messes the control file, making large diff
<Lure> ScottK: ok, I thought it might be that - I will then do the same, just to leave the delta to debian to minimum
<ScottK> If it's automatic, size isn't necessarily a problem.
<ScottK> The trick is if it has to be maintained somehow
<Lure> it might be that debian also did not run make dist for some time ;-)
<Lure> ScottK: the diff is huge and some changes would make it very different than debian package
<ScottK> Then perhaps not.
<Lure> ScottK: this is why I even suspect that Debian did not run make dist recently (but just edited control)
<ScottK> Right.  I can see that.
<Lure> I will test build and install my merged package now and if I do not get any showstoppers dueitn test installs, will upload
<ScottK> Nightrose and Mamarok: The eglibc update for your favorite bug is in karmic-proposed and needs testers to try it and say it works in the bug.  See Bug 425723
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 425723 in eglibc "kdevelop assert failure: *** glibc detected *** kdevelop: free(): invalid pointer: 0xbfc22c44 ***" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/425723
<Nightrose> thx ScottK
<Nightrose> you rock
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<Lure> ScottK: this might be also the cause of bug 497562
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 497562 in kubuntu-ppa "[PPA] On newest PPA beta (KDE 4.4beta1) digikam crashes every time at startup" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497562
<ScottK> Interesting.
<Lure> ScottK: digikam is failing with same "free(): invalid pointer" and it is again with kde 4.4 beta packages
<Lure> ScottK: have asked reporter to test with karmic-proposed packages
<ScottK> Lure: That's what I was about to suggest.
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Is quassel on the list of packages you can upload?
<JontheEchidna> probably. let me check
<JontheEchidna> yeah
<ScottK> There's a patch to do a double build and produce both -qt and -kde packages.  If I sponsor it, I can't New it.  Would you mind having a look (I did not review this version of the change, so it needs an actual review)?
<JontheEchidna> I'll take a look once I get this amarok merge squared away
<ScottK> Thanks.
<shtylman> ScottK: I made a deb package for my ubuntu assistant :)
<shtylman> I feel accomplished
<ScottK> Nice
<shtylman> so how best do you think it would be for users to discover the ubuntu assistant?
<shtylman> the help menu?
<shtylman> or someplace else?
<shtylman> maybe as a default desktop icon?
<ScottK> I'd think in the help menu
<shtylman> is the help menu something we can patch kde to add an item to?
<shtylman> I guess it should also go into the kmenu somewhere as well
<shtylman> for non-kde apps
<jussi01> shtylman: just what is this "ubuntu-assistant"
<shtylman> jussi01: http://www.shtylman.com/archives/154
<shtylman> basically... the idea is to give new users a central go-to point for help
<shtylman> and from there, they can look for the help they need
<jussi01> shtylman: Im a little concerned. what does the bot do? does it have any out put in the said channel? how are you deciding which channel the user goes to?
<shtylman> the bot is the one that posts the question to the channel
<shtylman> most likely the bot will post to the main channels (ubuntu, kubuntu)
<shtylman> the bot also does the logging of the session
<jussi01> shtylman: so, potentially, when we have a 100 people on at once, we will have the bot posting 100 different questions?
<shtylman> jussi01: yes, but it only post the question once
<jussi01> What happens when the user becomes abusive? (which some do), do we ban the bot? how do we stop abuse?
<shtylman> abusive?
<shtylman> oh.. no the bot doesn't post in the main channel all the time
<shtylman> it only post the question in the main channel
<jussi01> shtylman: as you no doubt have noticed, some peole like to attempt to disrupt.
<shtylman> it then makes a temp channel
<shtylman> where that user can be helped independently of all others
<jussi01> shtylman: well that breaks half the benefit of #ubuntu
<shtylman> jussi01: the point is that IRC can be hard for new users
<shtylman> and #ubuntu can be hard to follow
<jussi01> yes
<jussi01> shtylman: Have you read the #ubuntu is too noisy to be useful bug?
<shtylman> a user with a problem isn't gonna want to sit through that..
<shtylman> jussi01: nope
<jussi01> bug #392799
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392799 in ubuntu-community "#ubuntu too noisy to be useful" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392799
<shtylman> the main point is that a new user doesn't want to deal with IRC and it is overkill to solve their problem
<jussi01> shtylman: So let me probe a little further
<jussi01> shtylman: What happens once this independant channel is created?
<shtylman> from the user's perspective its a peer to peer chat they are unaware it is IRC underneath
<shtylman> in the main channel.. the question is posted
<shtylman> with a link to the new channel
<shtylman> anyone who wants to help can join that channel
<jussi01> shtylman: so we then have potentially hundreds of totally unregulated channels.
<shtylman> jussi01: yes...
<jussi01> shtylman: with users giving out advice that coud be totally suspect
<shtylman> um... yes...
<shtylman> as opposed to what happens now?
<shtylman> there will be a "report abuse" option
<shtylman> but yea...
<shtylman> the transcripts can be reviewed
<jussi01> shtylman: do you realise the amount of people we have giving sudo rm... out?
<jussi01> shtylman: thats little help when the hdd is dead
<jussi01> erased
<shtylman> jussi01: while I realize that may be an issue.... it really isn't different than a user going onto the forums
<shtylman> or googling for random stuff and trying that
<jussi01> shtylman: we put a lot of time and effort into making our irc channels safe for users.
<jussi01> I really odnt want to see that undoe
<jussi01> undone
<shtylman> well... these temp channels arn't meant to stay around...
<shtylman> also... its the same users that are in your main channels
<jussi01> However, if you want to create the one to one chat "feel", why not just have a irc client that ignores _evverything_ except highlights of the users name?
<jussi01> shtylman: I understand what you are trying to create, and beleive me, we have been trying to create a better #ubuntu experience for a long time. However, I would be very opposed to creating a load of unregistered, unregulated temporary channels.
<shtylman> but just dumping stuff in one main channel like that
<jussi01> shtylman: I highly recomend a good read of the bug
<shtylman> still makes it annoying for others to help that one user
<shtylman> also... how does that users post go to the right people in that massive channel?
<jussi01> shtylman: well slightly, but most of the helpers are able to cope with #ubuntu.
<jussi01> shtylman: have you looked at #ubuntu-meta before?
<jussi01> its very useful if you want to help ;)
<shtylman> jussi01: ubuntu meta might be nice for the helpers
<shtylman> jussi01: but all of this still ignores the end user
<shtylman> who doesn't care at all about IRC
<jussi01> shtylman: yes, it is
<shtylman> the helpers can still use meta
<shtylman> it doesn't do away with that
<jussi01> shtylman: so, as I said, create an irc client that only shows highlights
<shtylman> yea.. and there are problems with that
<shtylman> going from the main chat to the user isn't as bad
<shtylman> but going from the user to all the people helping him is
<shtylman> likewise...it becomes more annoying to log the individual "threads"
<jussi01> shtylman: But please! make sure you work with us ops and IRC Council. we are the ones responsible for making ubuntu's irc sphere a safe, hospitable place.
<jussi01> shtylman: if you move the conversation to PM, or another channel, you lose a lot of the learning many of the helpers take
<shtylman> jussi01: I agree... I don't want to circumvent anyone... but do see it from the point of view of a new user... who has no idea what to do
<shtylman> IRC sucks for them
<shtylman> the helpers can all join the channel to watch
<shtylman> they can also read the transcripts
<shtylman> and the conversations are then searchable
<shtylman> for users that might come back with similar problems
<shtylman> right now... anything that is sent to the tome of #ubuntu is basically lost
<jussi01> shtylman: I disagree
<shtylman> its much harder to search for problem A and see the solution
<shtylman> and this doesn't even cover discoverability
<jussi01> shtylman: discoverability isnt the issue here.
<jussi01> there are a million and one things we can do re: discoverability
<jussi01> shtylman: so, lets be constructive here.
<shtylman> I do agree the oversight is something to consider
<JontheEchidna> ScottK: quassell all checks out; uploading it now
<shtylman> the main point I have is that IRC is hard for new users... and not just hard from a technology sense... hard from a keeping track of it.. and using it
<shtylman> it provides much more than what a user needs/wants when they have a problem
<JontheEchidna> ScottK: if you feel like NEW'ing things, k3b and webkitkde could use a push through NEW queue too. It would be much appreciated
<JontheEchidna> bbl
<shtylman> they want a person to address their need... withouth shifting through tons of other stuff... and just give them some quick guidance
<jussi01> if we forget about the helpers for a moment, and think of new user A. A needs help with $problem. he opens $chat-client which you created, sees a little welcome message that tells him how to ask, and some links. He then types his question: How do I fix $problem? someone replies with A: go do, this, this and this. A does so, it works and he logs out.
<shtylman> I don't deny there are issues to work out
<jussi01> thats what you are after, correct?
<shtylman> indeed... I have a working implementation if you care to try it at some point
<shtylman> it does basically just that
<jussi01> shtylman: what I want to ask, is why does this not work with a highlights only client?
<shtylman> jussi01: it can work with highlights going _to_ the user... but the bigger issue I see is highlights coming _from_ the user
<shtylman> I have nothing against highlight chats
<shtylman> I just think even the helpers will enjoy having the chat topic easier to follow
<shtylman> consider how crazy it will become if one helper starts helping multiple people
<jussi01> shtylman: which is where #ubuntu-meta comes in, to ensure the helpers see the issues
<shtylman> (that there is a technocal challenge for the log bot)
<shtylman> right... but once they see the issues ... then what?
<shtylman> we still want to communicate effectively to the user
<shtylman> and also log the individual topics
<shtylman> ^ this is important for what I am trying to do
 * jussi01 wishes he had been approached with this at UDS...
<shtylman> so if I can reliably solve those problems with highlight only chat...I would... but I didn't see a reason to initially... it was much simpler without it... but nothing is set in stone
<shtylman> jussi01: I had a sessiono on it
<shtylman> *session
<jussi01> o.O
<shtylman> and we discussed things about the idea and whatnot
 * jussi01 is not happy he missed it
<shtylman> :(
<shtylman> I tried to spread the word
<shtylman> but you know how UDS is
<shtylman> jussi01: do you want to try the sample implementation?
<shtylman> I don't deny there is much work to be done
<jussi01> shtylman: you currently have a bot in #ubuntu?
<shtylman> no
<jussi01> ok, great
<shtylman> never without permission first
<shtylman> I always run the bot in a test channel
<jussi01> sure
<jussi01> shtylman: so how do I try this then?
<shtylman> jussi01: lp:ubuntu-assistant
<shtylman> grab the code from there
<jussi01> are there .debs there?
<shtylman> and I can walk you through it
<shtylman> nope
<shtylman> its all python
<shtylman> you can just run it locally
<jussi01> shtylman: ok, remind me the simple way to get code from there?
<shtylman> bzr branch lp:ubuntu-assistant
<shtylman> that command should do it
<shtylman> once you have the source
<jussi01> Ive got it
<jussi01> then?
<shtylman> go into the clients directory in the source tree
<shtylman> and run "./ubuntu-assistant qt"
<jussi01> shtylman: could you PM me the test channel names so I can join with this client?
<shtylman> you don't join with that client
<shtylman> the test channel is #live_assistant_channel
<jussi01> shtylman: I want to see from the helper side
<shtylman> ahh right :)
<shtylman> also... you will need python-irclib as a dependency for the client... iirc
<shtylman> it should complain about that if you try to run it without it...
<jussi01> nah, its running
<shtylman> k
<shtylman> and no errors?
<shtylman> maybe you already had it...
<shtylman> anyhow... yea..
 * jussi01 has a lot of strange things ;)
<shtylman> haha
<shtylman> did it crash for you?
<jussi01> no, I exited
<shtylman> ahh ok
<shtylman> anyhow... you get the general idea
<shtylman> I also plan to have bots that search answers and forums and return relevant results
<shtylman> I figure that is useful while the user waits
<shtylman> basically... I want it... in the end... to be the one stop help area
<shtylman> evne if a user doesn't want live assistance they can know where to go to get more info and branch out from there...
<shtylman> *even
<jussi01> shtylman: Really, I would hate to see that implementation put out there. nothing against you, but you really need to read that bug, and have a chat to us who deal with ubuntu irc
<shtylman> but there are still many kinks to work out
<shtylman> jussi01: no offense taken... :)
<shtylman> I will gladly have a chat with people who deal with it
<shtylman> but I also keep an open mind about it
<shtylman> and not ness caring about always sticking to the norm
<shtylman> sometimes you gotta just try new things
<jussi01> shtylman: if you want to have a chat to the IRC council, feel free to drop in and have a word in #ubuntu-irc-council
<shtylman> k
<shtylman> any particular time is good?
<shtylman> also...part of this isn't that it is meant to be IRC only
<shtylman> the backend can be torn out and moved off irc
<jussi01> shtylman: I agree, but sometimes, its like trying new things with a traffic management system, if you get it wrong, its gonna break a lot moe things...
<shtylman> the reason I picked IRC was that there are lots of "helpers" who have already opted in
<shtylman> and I didn't want them to learn something new
<shtylman> but for new users... learning IRC can be overkill
<shtylman> jussi01: yea... I don't frown upon talking about it...
<shtylman> but I also don't want to talk it to death :) ... sometimes simple prototypes in the wild do much more than any single conversation ever can
<jussi01> shtylman: irc council members reside in EU (UK 1, FI 2) and america (not sure, Nhandler and pici), pick a TZ...
<shtylman> heh
<jussi01> shtylman: also, onething while you are testing, you may want to use ## channels as freenodemay get grumbly as #channels are for registered projects.
<jussi01> shtylman: this session, was it under the community track? or?
<shtylman> um...
<shtylman> desktop maybe? or qa?
<shtylman> not community iirc
<shtylman> ahh... I didn't know about ## channels
<jussi01> thats probably why I missed it. probably should have been community
<shtylman> maybe... it was desktop oriented... and all I really know is desktop :)
<jussi01> argh, looks like gobbby.ubuntu.com is down... do you have the gobby doc by anychance?
<shtylman> but yea... it touches on lots of things
<shtylman> jussi01: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopLiveAssistant
<shtylman> gobby notes at the bottom
<jussi01> shtylman: do you remeber who was there? were there many?
<shtylman> yea
<shtylman> there were quite a few people
<shtylman> some of them subscribed to the blueprint
<shtylman> so you could look at those names
<jussi01> got a link for that?
<shtylman> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-liveassistant
<emma> unquery
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Let me see what I have time to look at ....
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: All done.  Thanks.
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Up for something else I need help on ....
<ScottK> Riddell: If you could use your handy dandy kde l10n upload script to reupload 4.3.4 translations to karmic-backports, that would be lovely.
<Lure> Riddell, ScottK: can somebody review/ack my proposed exiv2 sync+transition: bug 502565
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 502565 in pyexiv2 "sync exiv2 0.19-1 from debian/unstable" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/502565
<Lure> I would need ack from core-dev, before subscribing ubuntu-archive for sync request
<ScottK> Lure: Yes.  I'm in the middle of something, so I can't look.  You can also subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors ...
<Lure> ScottK: ok, thanks
<Lure> ScottK: I have to hit bed anyhow and I am in no big hurry ;-)
#kubuntu-devel 2015-12-28
<soee> valorie: i think more the news, updates of Plasma are desired
<soee> a lot of distros have already 5.5 and we don't
<valorie> yes, it shows that we are not together yet
<soee> same goes for frameworks and apps
<valorie> right
<valorie> but if there are no docs, there is no help for new packagers when they show up here
<soee> that is true
<valorie> there have been quite a few recently
<valorie> it can be a series of links 
<valorie> if nothing else
<valorie> but we need *something*
<soee> so maybe now wen workng on the stuff i have mentiones, we could also start the docs
<valorie> right, if everyone contributed their notes that they already have
<valorie> somebody with a bit of experience could pull that into shape
<valorie> I wish aaron would show up again
<valorie> anyway, the new year is a chance to start well
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ovidiu-florin> valorie: I've talked with yofel and ahoneybun_ to have a sprint these 3 days to set up the docs
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: in hwat time frame are you available?
<ovidiu-florin> sgclark: are you also available for this sprint?
<valorie> nice!
<valorie> thanks for that, ovidiu-florin
<ovidiu-florin> I'll walk the dog now, and then get started on some diagrams that I can put in place from the docs I have
<valorie> super!
<ovidiu-florin> valorie: we've talked about this for a week now, no one told you about this?
<valorie> always best to have a starting place
<valorie> I've seen some talk
<valorie> but during the holidays I was very busy, and not at the keyboard often
<ovidiu-florin> I've tried to help with moving thinga along, but there are many things I don't know yet, and I don't have debian git commit access
<valorie> also my idea of writing to the list, was to spread the word beyond the channel
<ovidiu-florin> which seems like a very bad thing for us
<ovidiu-florin> (that we need debian git commit to set up pur packages)
<valorie> yeah
<valorie> our original idea was much closer cooperation with Debian
<valorie> I'm not sure how well that's worked
<valorie> I guess yofel will have an opinion
<ovidiu-florin> I don't have all the details
<ovidiu-florin> I think it's a good idea to have a closer cooperation
<valorie> of course
<ovidiu-florin> but what we have now is a dependency
<valorie> but we thought they would use our packaging, or part of it
<valorie> not sure that's happening at all
<ovidiu-florin> and they don't?
<valorie> I'm on the kde-packager list
<valorie> and see little to no mention of it
<ovidiu-florin> then I think an urgent meeting is in order, with the KC and some developers
<valorie> well, I don't know
<valorie> I would like to know yofel's opinion
<valorie> i'm not a packager
<ovidiu-florin> I agree
<ovidiu-florin> I wanted the meeting to sort this out
<ovidiu-florin> see what's the current status
<ovidiu-florin> and what should we do
<ovidiu-florin> further
<valorie> yeah
<valorie> I'm about to head to bed though
<valorie> it's 2am here
<ovidiu-florin> I just woke up :D
<ovidiu-florin> valorie: didn't expect you are awake now
<valorie> I shouldn't be
<valorie> lol
<valorie> and don't need to be at a meeting like that
<valorie> I started watching doctor who and time went away
<valorie> amazing how that happens
<valorie> but now I need to sleep
<clivejo> hi ovidiu-florin
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: hello
<clivejo> how was your Xmas?
<ovidiu-florin> it was good
<ovidiu-florin> there?
<clivejo> ate far too much and family for 3 days is too much!
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SoO83PepBkU_kkbLL2eIeVDYYDzv6OEA1npVoCp7wHo
<ovidiu-florin> just started
<clivejo> eakkk
<clivejo> morning BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<BluesKaj> ;Morning clivejo
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: eakkk?
<clivejo> you have your job cut out drawing that diagram
<ovidiu-florin> I want an overview so to better understand how things are moving
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: can you help?
<clivejo> what you need help with?
<ovidiu-florin> what happens in between those two
<ovidiu-florin> I'm currently reading the wiki on packaging 
<clivejo> sorry, between what two?
<ovidiu-florin> to see what's currently there
<ovidiu-florin> KDE tarball and Kubuntu PPAs
<ovidiu-florin> in the diagram
<clivejo> Disclaimer: I have limited knowledge!
<clivejo> but from my understanding there are two sources for KDE tarballs
<clivejo> depot = a prerelease platform for devs to package them before release
<clivejo> and then the main download site on kde website
<clivejo> when a release is announced we use the staging KA tools to package them up and upload them to the staging PPAs
<clivejo> there is a seperate PPA for each of the releases (frameworks, plasma and apps)
<clivejo> once uploaded to LaunchPad staging PPA we use the QA tools to monitor how the builds are going
<clivejo> anything with problems shows up as red or orange and means we need to fix them
<clivejo> http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/plasma/build_status_5.5.1_xenial.html
<clivejo> when they are all green and devs are happy with them we call for testers to install and test the packages
<clivejo> The idea behind Kubuntu CI is to continiously package the upstream projects from KDE
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: package continuously what's on master?
<clivejo> and we keep on top of the packaging by fixing it as chnages happen upstream
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: I dont understand the question?
<ovidiu-florin> package continously what's on the master branch of KDE projects? or every release?
<clivejo> yes the git master
<ovidiu-florin> ok, and where does the debian git come in?
<clivejo> it grabs the source code from KDE git and the packaging from debian git
<clivejo> debuild -S and uploads that to LaunchPad
<ovidiu-florin> and the kA scripts do this when they are amnually called?
<clivejo> well debian git has a hook
<clivejo> so when we make a change to the packaging, debian notifies KCI and triggers a rebuild
<clivejo> but we can override that by adding NO CI to our commit comment
<clivejo> usually its a good feature to have, but if we are changing lots of packaging (ie a new release) we have to pause KCI
<clivejo> they are also triggered automatically every night at 00:00 UTC
<clivejo> basically if KCI was working, releases should be simple and quick
<clivejo> you basically run the staging-upload script and it does it all automatically
<clivejo> the kubuntu-ci bot announces a package is broken, a dev who is free goes off and fixes the issue and the KCI goes green again
<clivejo> nice even work load
<clivejo> but we have problems
<clivejo> take kwin for example
<clivejo> there was a bug in it, and a ubuntu dev cherry picked the fix and applied a patch to the packaging and uploaded that to the archive
<clivejo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kwin/+changelog
<clivejo> but they didnt update our packaging on git
<clivejo> debian git
<clivejo> in the mean time sgclark has been fixing the packaging on debian git for the next release and has made a few changes
<clivejo> the branch kubuntu_xenial_archive is supposed to match the main archive, but it doesnt
<clivejo> thats why when you run the staging script you are getting errors
<clivejo> and I dont know how to fix it :/
<clivejo> and this is holding back the whole plasma 5.5.3 release
<clivejo> anyways, its lunch time and I feel like Im talking to myself again!
 * clivejo wanders off
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: I'll be there today after 10PM UTC, tomorrow potentially after 8PM UTC and I should be a bit more flexible on wednesday
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: clive did a good explenation above, but note that KA works with the KDE release tarballs, only CI works from KDE Git
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: you have a job besides Kubuntu, right? you're not working at Blue Systems?
<clivejo> yofel: will you help me with kwin?
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo:  please give me some feedback on the diagam
<yofel> clivejo: not today, sorry
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: check if there is a KDE commit hook
<clivejo> and that master should feed into KCI
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: I might not be around today after all, my ISP broke something so I still have very unstable internet. Someone's coming tomorrow to check it.
<clivejo> not the automation tools
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: and yes, I work as a web dev for my dayjob. Kubuntu is freetime stuff
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: can you also take a look at https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1SoO83PepBkU_kkbLL2eIeVDYYDzv6OEA1npVoCp7wHo/edit?usp=sharing
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: what do you mean feed in KCI? doesn't it need to be packaged first?
<clivejo> KCI is the process of packaging the KDE git master
<yofel> the commit hook arrow is wrong, that's only used for the CI
<clivejo> but I dont think its triggered by KDE commits
<yofel> kubuntu automation is all about archive packages. The only interface it has to the CI are the _stable and _unstable CI branches that it uses to save you some work
<clivejo> only debian git commits
<ovidiu-florin> then how are builds from KDE master started? by whom, when?
<clivejo> KCI does it
<ovidiu-florin> what is KCI?
<clivejo> Kubuntu Continious Ingration
<clivejo> or how ever you spell it
<ovidiu-florin> yes, that's nice, but what is it?
<clivejo> it is triggered at 00:00 UTC or by a debian git commit via a hook
<yofel> I think the kde wise build is only done during the daily package builds
<ovidiu-florin> a script?
<clivejo> KCI = http://kci.pangea.pub/
<yofel> KCI is a jenkins instance that somehow uses kde git and debian git packaging to build a "current state" package
<clivejo> bunch of scripts 
<ovidiu-florin> thank you yofel
<yofel> it's controlled by a bunch of ruby scripts that build the packages in docker containers I believe, upload them to the CI PPAs, wait for them to build and then run check scripts over the artifacts
<clivejo> 349 broken out of 381, that makes me :(
<yofel> for the packaging branches a lot of auto-merging is done before the builds. e.g. kubuntu_xenail_archive -> kubuntu_unstable, to pick up fixes in the archive stuff so that we only fix things in one place
<yofel> and the idea is, that for new upstream releases you then just merge _unstable -> _stable -> _xenial_archive and you don't have much to fix left
<yofel> as _unstable was already tracking that release for a while
<yofel> as for KA, that last merge step is the only interaction with the CI it has, as it's the only relevant one for the archive
<clivejo> yofel: are you working today?
<yofel> no
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: can you change package to Packaging (Debian Git)
<ovidiu-florin> yofel clivejo ckeck the diagram now
<clivejo> Im watching you
<clivejo> maybe even put the URL
<clivejo> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/
<ovidiu-florin> I still don't understand the branch thing on the debian git
<clivejo> Its compliated
<yofel> QA Tools is also completely seperate for CI and KA
<ovidiu-florin> what do you mean it's separated?
<yofel> I consider the CI ones better than the old KA code, but as CI is ruby, and KA python, you can't easily migrate that
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: completely different scripts
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: also while we are working on Kubuntu+1, the staging packages often get copied straight into the archive
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: can I make edits on this document?
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: sure
<clivejo> Can you put a link to the QA tool - http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/
<clivejo> Id put the link to the launchpad git for the tools there
<clivejo> yofel: regarding KCI, we have unstable, stable daily etc dont we?
<yofel> yes
<clivejo> yofel: re: qa.kubuntu.co.uk QA tools
<clivejo> they are part of kubuntu automation tools?
<clivejo> thats why we have to log into weegie and update them to get it to show?
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: KCI Jenkins is currently hosted by Blue Systems I believe
<ovidiu-florin> it's still Kubuntu Hosting
<clivejo> can we label those arrows?
<clivejo> ie red (uploading to LP)
<clivejo> blue (monitoring buildlogs)
<ovidiu-florin> for monitoring I used a circle instead of an arrow
<clivejo> just to indicate whats happening
<clivejo> KCI parses the logs and makes them easier to figure out the problems
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: also the Kubuntu Automation Scripts use depot I believe
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: I can't enter the info that fast
<ovidiu-florin> let me finish with the legend
<ovidiu-florin> I'm adding the arrows now
<clivejo> I guess it depends on how accurate you want the chart to be :)
<ovidiu-florin> and I have to update all the arrows accordingly
<clivejo> No problem, you are doing a great job
<clivejo> nice to see it in picture form!
<clivejo> I have to go for a bit, but Ill be around later if you want to carry on then
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: we have 2 KCI PPAs
<ovidiu-florin> one should go
<ovidiu-florin> one of the boxes I mean
<clivejo> yup
<yofel> Clivejo: only the ppa status pages on QA come from KA. There's other things on there too
<clivejo> yup
<yofel> And you don't need to login to weegie to update it
<clivejo> yofel: on the diagram I think the QA Tools should be coming from the automation tools
<yofel> The config files are in git
<clivejo> not LP PPA as it is now?
<yofel> Qa tools for ka are in ka. Yes
<clivejo> oh, I thought I had to log into weegie and do a git refresh to start a new relkeadse
<clivejo> good lord the sky is falling
<yofel> No. There's a cronjob for that
<clivejo> oh
<clivejo> I was being impatient then
<clivejo> thats not like me !
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: to recap- the QA tools are part of KA, but they monitor the PPA and traffic light the packages for us
<ovidiu-florin> Staging and CI PPAs, right?
<clivejo> KCI PPA dont usually end up in the archives
<yofel> Ci qa monitors ci ppas. Ka qa monitors staging ppas
<ovidiu-florin> but the CI monitor is kenkins, right?
<ovidiu-florin> jenkins*
<yofel> Right
<clivejo> sorry ovidiu-florin
<clivejo> I dont know how to make the pretty boxes!
<ovidiu-florin> :))
<ovidiu-florin> it's ok
<ovidiu-florin> I'll make it pretty
<ovidiu-florin> I've added the upload to LP and monitor connectors
<ovidiu-florin> what's next?
<ovidiu-florin> I got distracted
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: ?
<clivejo> sorry was away getting food
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: loooking good
<clivejo> does it make sense to you?
<soee> soo the work on docs is started ?
<ovidiu-florin> soee: kind of
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: it does, but I feel that more info can be added
<ovidiu-florin> we can make other diagrams that explain different parts in more details
<clivejo> I think if we broke it down into sections now
<clivejo> document the KA Tools etc
<clivejo> use that as the main overview
<ovidiu-florin> I agree
<clivejo> that shows the main processes and points people to the resources they need to explore it
<ovidiu-florin> ok
<ovidiu-florin> let me clean-up my desk
<ovidiu-florin> and then I'll dive in more deeply
<clivejo> does kubuntu still have a wikimedia docs?
<ovidiu-florin> mediawiki*
<ovidiu-florin> yes, on KDE hosting
<clivejo> is it used?
<ovidiu-florin> kind of
<ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun_: ping
 * clivejo has used it before and would be more comfortable
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: but as you know the main obstacle for a packager is obtaining debian git access
<ovidiu-florin> so we need to ease the way patches can be submitted
<clivejo> would there be a group or something on LP patches could be submitted?
<soee> ovidiu-florin: one suggestion- lets say we have tabel of content maybe it would ba a good idea to highlighed parts of it with some color (and add legend) for those that require different access levels
<clivejo> a glossary page would be great too!
<clivejo> all these acronyms are confusing
<clivejo> BTW debian git is AKA Alioth!
<clivejo> Id love to learn more about how LP works
<clivejo> I feel like im not using it to its potential
<clivejo> we also need docs on how to setup your environment
 * ovidiu-florin doesn't like LP
<ovidiu-florin> it's ugly
<ovidiu-florin> it could use a prettyer theme
 * ovidiu-florin is eating nachos with hot salsa
<clivejo> nom
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: when you say Kubuntu Latest PPA, what do you mean?
<ovidiu-florin> currenlty that's wily
<clivejo> you mean the main archive?
<clivejo> should we define those?
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: do you know how to setup a bouncer?
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: I use quassel server and quassel client
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: ^^^ why not?
<clivejo> I applied for and got an account on KDE
<clivejo> but my username is clivej on KDE :/
<clivejo> Im not sure how to set it up
<clivejo> my internet connection can be very bad at times
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: ^^ it's simpler and faster to set up, but it keeps the logs in a DB not in text files
<clivejo> but Id need a stable internet and a machine always on?
<clivejo> shadeslayer: are you around?
<shadeslayer> not exactly
<shadeslayer> but whats up
<clivejo> I need help :(
<clivejo> kwin is really messed up
<clivejo> and I cant seem to fix it
<shadeslayer> build logs
<shadeslayer> plz
<kfunk> clivejo: talked to mgraesslin, would that help?
<kfunk> talked to mgraesslin?*
<clivejo> basically some ubuntu devs have made changes to the packages in the ubuntu archives
<marco-parillo> clivejo: I use the kde bouncer, and I set it up following these directions: https://community.kde.org/Sysadmin/BNC 
<clivejo> and kubuntu_xenial_archive is out of sync
<shadeslayer> then copy over those changes to git
<clivejo> but in the mean time sgclark has been working away and made some changes to the debian git
<clivejo> archive changelog is here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kwin/+changelog
<shadeslayer> just merge things manually then
<shadeslayer> copy over archive, git diff
<shadeslayer> see what's useful
<shadeslayer> whats not
<shadeslayer> you have to do it manually
<clivejo> shadeslayer: thats my problem, never done this before
<clivejo> need hand held first time
<shadeslayer> see git log -p, see diff, see what needs to be kept and what needs to be thrown away
<shadeslayer> sorry, I'm on holiday :P
<shadeslayer> not really in the mood to work honestly
<clivejo> arent we all :P
<clivejo> kfunk: its a packaging issue
<soee> Plasma 5.6 wallaper https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=breeze.git&a=blob&h=c8bead7c046f038b0f9a5a3cb5e6087073e28594&f=wallpapers%2FNext%2Fcontents%2Fimages%2F1920x1080.png&o=plain :)
<soee> prettu nice i must say, better than the one in 5.5 imo
<clivejo> can the bouncer be used for non KDE stuff?
<ovidiu-florin> ok, I've went through the docs we have now for packaging and my conclusion is: we don't have any documentation for packaging
<ovidiu-florin> nada
<clivejo> oh dear
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo a VPS is 5$/month from DO
<ovidiu-florin> or any other provider t
<ovidiu-florin> they'r cheap
<ovidiu-florin> you can use one of those for a bouncer
<ovidiu-florin> that's what I do
<clivejo> Ive configured KDE's
<clivejo> I think
<ovidiu-florin> soee: I thought the new walpapers were photos, no more digital stuff
<ovidiu-florin> valorie: [22:30:22] <ovidiu-florin> ok, I've went through the docs we have now for packaging and my conclusion is: we don't have any documentation for packaging
<soee> oh i doubt taht there will be only photos any soon
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: are you going to work on them?
<ovidiu-florin> on what?
<clivejo> packaging docs?
<ovidiu-florin> https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu#Packaging
<ovidiu-florin> I'm hoping
<ovidiu-florin> I'm replying to valorie 's email now
<clivejo> there are different types of packaging
<ovidiu-florin> done
<ovidiu-florin> replied
<ovidiu-florin> now, I'm waiting for people to start screaming at me
<clivejo> why would they scream?
<ovidiu-florin> I was a bit harsh in the email
<claydoh> ovidiu-florin: I don't think so.
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: are you free to help me with something?
<ovidiu-florin> I can try
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: ^
<clivejo> PM
<ovidiu-florin> aaah
<ovidiu-florin> so that's where the notification came from
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: are you getting my messages?
<ovidiu-florin> yes
<ovidiu-florin> my zsh history broke
<ovidiu-florin> I'm trying to figure out if I can get it back
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: I dont' see why those messages need to be private
<ovidiu-florin> [19:54:33] <clivejo> ./staging-upload -d xenial -v 5.5.2 -m "new upstream release" -r plasma -t ~/workspace/plasma/
<ovidiu-florin> [19:27:07] <ovidiu-florin> ./staging-upload -d xenial -y 16.04 -v 5.5.2 -r plasma      
<ovidiu-florin> this is what I used
<clivejo> can you pause KCI?
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: ^
<ovidiu-florin> which job is that?
<clivejo> http://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_pause_integration/
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: can you please confirm? can/should I do this?
<ovidiu-florin> or sgclark
<ovidiu-florin> or sitter
<ovidiu-florin> valorie: are you around?
<valorie> yes, here
<valorie> just replying to your email, ovidiu-florin
<ovidiu-florin> I saw the reply
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/+git/kubuntu-automation/tree/README
<ovidiu-florin> I also saw scarletr's
<clivejo> line 22
<valorie> yeah.
<clivejo> Im not a kubuntu member, so I dont have the permission to pause
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: paused
<ovidiu-florin> let me know when I can restart it
<ovidiu-florin> valorie: I'm writing a reply, to hopefully calme he
<ovidiu-florin> her*
<valorie> we do want this to be fun, not a drag, not a burden
<valorie> good docs can help with that
<ovidiu-florin> I know
<ovidiu-florin> but asking everything from one person is not the way to go
<soee_> we all undrstand Scarlett right? If she can't or don't want to do something it is all fine :) I hope she undersatnd that Ovidu wants to have the packaging docs done and thats why he is sending mail on ML. It is also fine if she won't respond to such email now - she find time she will do it :D
<ovidiu-florin> and I feel that lately sgclark feels this way
<soee_> I think Scarlett feels liek there is some pressue on her but there is not imo :)
<ovidiu-florin> I've replied to her
<ovidiu-florin> I hope I've said the right things
 * ovidiu-florin has a feeling we might skip to package plasma 5.6 direclty and jump over 5.5
<soee_> i think the topis shoudl starts with: Have FUN :)
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: can you unpause KCI
<ovidiu-florin> unpaused
<clivejo> gpg-agent wont work for me
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: ^
<clivejo> thanks
<ovidiu-florin> I didn't have the patience to set it up (gpg-agent)
<soee_> ovidiu-florin: when 5.6 is scheduled ?
<ovidiu-florin> there's a calendar for kde releases
 * ovidiu-florin looks
<clivejo> I dont have the patiences to type my passphase twice per package
<soee_> 3 months
<soee_> i thinkif w ecan we shoudl go with 5.5.x
<ovidiu-florin> https://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Plasma_5
<ovidiu-florin> march
<soee_> and backport it to Wily
<ovidiu-florin> for xenial?
<ovidiu-florin> oh
<ovidiu-florin> I take that back
<ovidiu-florin> I think we'll make it with 5.5.*
<soee_> clivejo: you are working on uploading it right (5.5.2) ?
<ovidiu-florin> but I'm not reffering to getting it in cenial
<ovidiu-florin> xenial*
<clivejo> I was trying to
<ovidiu-florin> soee_: we're all working on that
<ovidiu-florin> somehow
<ovidiu-florin> but there are many things that need to be done for that to hapen
<clivejo> but my stupid gpg-agent wont work
<soee_> ovidiu-florin: where are some good reasons to have it in xenial i think like if we pt t there when alphas or betas of 16.04 are released, more people will test Xenial
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: copy paste magic :P
<clivejo> when I run the daemon it kept saying the passphase was bad
<clivejo> I hate it!
<ovidiu-florin> soee_: I was talking about getting 5.5.x packaged at all. but I thought that 5.6 will be sooner
<ovidiu-florin> like january
<soee_> ah, ok
<mamarley> clivejo: I actually have that problem too.  My gpg-agent hasn't been working ever since the first KF5/Plasma5 release.
<clivejo> mamarley: any idea why not?
<mamarley> Nope, I tried to figure out but could not.  If you ever get yours figured out, could you let me know?
<clivejo> gpg: cancelled by user
<clivejo> gpg: no default secret key: bad passphrase
<clivejo> gpg: signing failed: bad passphrase
<mamarley> Hmm, that's not the same thing I get.  For me, it just acts like gpg-agent isn't there at all.
<clivejo> gpg --list-keys shows my key
<mamarley> gpg-agent is running, yet it asks for my password each time anyway.
<clivejo> as soon as I enable the agent is starts saying bad passphase
<mamarley> How are you enabling it?
<clivejo> in .bashrc
<clivejo> but it wont work any more
<clivejo> I give up
<clivejo> time for bed
<clivejo> valorie: can I use my KDE bouncer for OSM channels?
<valorie> you can use it for anything on freenode, for sure
<valorie> if you need more servers, just file a ticket with the sysadmins and they'll give you more
<valorie> I keep meaning to do that
<clivejo> OSM channels are on OFTC
<clivejo> mamarley: think I got it
<clivejo> mamarley: created a file ~/.gnupg/gpg-agent.conf
<clivejo> added the following
<clivejo> pinentry-program /usr/bin/pinentry-qt
<clivejo> no-grab
<clivejo> default-cache-ttl 1800
<clivejo> I now get a popup prompt for my passphase which is remembered
<clivejo> have to install pinentry-qt as well
<clivejo> there we go, all working again
<soee_> :-)
#kubuntu-devel 2015-12-29
<mamarley> clivejo: Looks like it worked for me too, thanks!
<valorie> clivejo: if you don't already have a bouncer account, just mention you'll need OFTC as well as freenode and it will be set up that way
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: please make a blog post on how you configured gpg-agent
<ovidiu-florin> and post it here
<ovidiu-florin> and on Kubuntu wire
 * ovidiu-florin is of to bed
<ovidiu-florin> night all
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ovidiu-florin> morning lordievader
<clivejo> hummmm
<ovidiu-florin> mornin' clivejo
<clivejo> Ive missed 11hours of history
<clivejo> hi ovidiu-florin
<ovidiu-florin> what history?
<clivejo> KDE Bouncer
<lordievader> Hey ovidiu-florin, clivejo. How are you two doing?
<clivejo> must be a limit on it
<clivejo> hi lordievader
<ovidiu-florin> valorie: are you still here?
<clivejo> very tired here
<lordievader> clivejo: Too little sleep?
<clivejo> yeah
<ovidiu-florin> I just got out of bed and.. my dog is sick again... :(
<clivejo> I have period of bad sleep
<lordievader> ovidiu-florin: That ain't good :(
<lordievader> clivejo: :(
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: did what you worked on last night work?
<clivejo> but got up normal time and walked/played with the pup
<ovidiu-florin> I have to go to the vet again... he hates the vet
<lordievader> All dogs do...
<ovidiu-florin> not my dad's
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: I got gpg-agent working
<clivejo> but was too tired to retry staging
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: how is he sick?
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: can you blog about the gpg-agent?
<ovidiu-florin> please :D
<ovidiu-florin> he puked this morning
<clivejo> I dont know about it, I just read and read until I find the answer!
<ovidiu-florin> but the vet is for anti-fleas formula
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: then please be a master and share the answer with the rest of us :D
<clivejo> it was the pinentry-qt was the problem
<clivejo> gpg-agent captures the passphase via a graphical prompt
<clivejo> it wasnt doing that
<clivejo> <clivejo> mamarley: created a file ~/.gnupg/gpg-agent.conf
<clivejo> <clivejo> added the following
<clivejo> <clivejo> pinentry-program /usr/bin/pinentry-qt
<clivejo> <clivejo> no-grab
<clivejo> <clivejo> default-cache-ttl 1800
<clivejo> now it pops up the prompt and remembers it
<ovidiu-florin> great blog post
<clivejo> should I try running staging again?
<clivejo> :P
<ovidiu-florin> go ahead (what do I know)
<clivejo> is yofel about today?
<ovidiu-florin> usually in the late evening, perhaps night
<ovidiu-florin> if his ISP fixes his network connection
<ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun_: ping
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: would you pause KCI pleasE?
<clivejo> hi lisandro
 * clivejo pokes ovidiu-florin with the fire poker
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: ^
<clivejo> thanks :)
<clivejo> I swear these scripts hate me
<clivejo> subprocess.CalledProcessError: Command '['git', 'clone', 'git+ssh://git.debian.org/git/pkg-kde/plasma/bluedevil', 'git']' returned non-zero exit status 128
<yofel> moin
<clivejo> hi yofel
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: you have git commit access?
<yofel> hm, does that commnad work for you by hand? moszumanska has a tendency to time out occasionally
<ovidiu-florin> hello yofel
<clivejo> it worked last night
<clivejo> just gpg-agent was being a &Â£"&*Â£7
<clivejo> ssh: connect to host git.debian.org port 22: Connection timed out
<clivejo> strange
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: yes I do
<clivejo> is there a status page for debian git?
<ovidiu-florin> ping the server
<clivejo> no reply from moszumanska.debian.org
<clivejo> can you ping it ovidiu-florin?
<ovidiu-florin> nope, it's dead
<ovidiu-florin> I pinged git.debian.org
<clivejo> I cant even get on http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/
<ovidiu-florin> it's dead
<ovidiu-florin> ping debian sysadmins
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: can you un-pause KCI, dont think these are going to be done today!
<mitya57> clivejo, ovidiu-florin, https://lists.debian.org/debian-infrastructure-announce/2015/12/msg00000.html
<clivejo> thanks mitya57
<ovidiu-florin> thanks mitya57
<clivejo> we should add that to our topic :P
<clivejo> anyone know how to make my KDE bouncer buffer bigger?
<clivejo> grrr
<clivejo> today is not a computer day
<clivejo> is http://bnc.kde.org:7778/ broken too?
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: do anything more on the dos?
<clivejo> docs?
<ovidiu-florin> wrote this then got distractted https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-packaging
<ovidiu-florin> thanks for hitting me
<clivejo> you can always rely on me to hit you ;)
<ovidiu-florin> add your name in the top right
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: which one is needed for commit to KA?
<clivejo> ninjas I think
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: be right back
<clivejo> no prob
<mparillo> clivejo: Try https://bnc.kde.org:7778/ instead
<clivejo> thanks mparillo I opened a link I used last night in my history
<clivejo> mparillo: any idea what a sane buffer limit would be for kubuntu-devel?
<mparillo> clivejo: I have 2000, because I have not figured out how to supress the CI messages.
<clivejo> LOL 
<clivejo> I just put 200
<ovidiu-florin> now really brb
<clivejo> do you ever reach that limit?
 * ovidiu-florin has no limits :P
<mparillo> clivejo: No, but I try to get on twice a day (before and after $work). At $work, the IRC port is blocked. If your limit gets really big, you might need to change your Konversation Configuration Behavior Chat Window Scrollback Limit.
<clivejo> mparillo: is there any way to get Quaseel to set a marker, to mark the buffer replay position?
<mparillo> Not sure. I kinda miss Quassel, but Kubuntu moved to Konversation and I along with it.
<clivejo> I though it was the other way around :/
<mparillo> Kubuntu had been on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quassel_IRC since 2009.04, but IIRC went to Konversation along with the Plasma 5 / Qt 5 migration.
<ovidiu-florin> back
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: are you crazy?
<ovidiu-florin> you wrote so much!!
<ovidiu-florin> great job
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<soee> hiho BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi soee 
<ovidiu-florin> mparillo clivejo you're both wrong
<ovidiu-florin> Konversation had some issues, so the Kubuntu team at the time was kind of forced to switch to Quassel
<ovidiu-florin> which is not a KDE project BTW
<ovidiu-florin> when Konversation got fixed, they switched back
<ovidiu-florin> that's the story
<lisandro> clivejo: hi!
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: does it make sense?
<BluesKaj> so what changes can we expect in the alpha release on thursday?
<clivejo> for kubuntu, dont expect too much :P
<BluesKaj> yeah, thought so...plasma 5.5 still sitting on the shelf...wisj I could halp, but my skills are lacking.
<BluesKaj> help even
<clivejo> just a busy time of year for most people
<clivejo> anyone know if I can change my connection line via KDE Bouncer
<BluesKaj> clivejo:  there's a bouncer on frenode that I used for a while 
<BluesKaj> Server: orion.trekweb.org
<BluesKaj> Port: 5709, use SSL
<clivejo> I have KDE one setup and working
<BluesKaj> clivejo: didn't know kde had one
<clivejo> BluesKaj: https://community.kde.org/Sysadmin/BNC
<BluesKaj> I dropped the bouncer after i setup the vpn ...there wasn't much I found so interesting in the scrollbacks after logging in after a few months of using the boncer so I stopped using it 
<clivejo> BluesKaj: being in different time zone, I though it would be handy to have
<clivejo> sometimes feel like Ive missed information or part of a conversation
<BluesKaj> seems we're all in different time zones, and i found searching thru the text became too time consuming to be useful, but I'm easily bored, your experience may be diffewrent :-)
<clivejo> I wonder can I get quassel to mark the start of buffer line 
<BluesKaj> konversation user here, sorry i can't help 
<clivejo> might switch to konversation actuall
<BluesKaj> ok , gotta check my bootup ...it's suddenly really slow agian this morning
<BluesKaj> yeah, the swap uuid was wrong after I dumped debian on the same hdd as swap
<BluesKaj> much better now
<clivejo> BluesKaj: any good at prove reading?
<BluesKaj> proof reading ... my spelling is quite good, just my KB skills are a bit lacking :-)
<BluesKaj> clivejo:  what do you have in mind?
<clivejo> Im dyslexic!
<clivejo> just check over https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-packaging
<clivejo> see if it makes sense
<BluesKaj> unfortunately I don't have credentials to login to that site
<clivejo> oh, you arent registered KDE ?
<BluesKaj> i think so, let me check my login/pw files
<BluesKaj> nope, just kubuntu , not kde
<clivejo> no prob
<BluesKaj> clivejo:  maybe you post it on pastebin or some such and I can check it over there
<BluesKaj> could post 
<clivejo> its ok, it will probably be copied to the wiki
<BluesKaj> ok 
<yofel> ovidiu-florin, clivejo: KA is ~kubuntu-packagers, I fixed that in the notes
<clivejo> thanks
<clivejo> is there a script for uploading?
<yofel> and my internet is fixed, hurray. (Loose wire in one of the telephone sockets)
<yofel> uploading what to where?
<clivejo> staging to PPA
<yofel> no
<clivejo> Ill remove that then
<yofel> that's one command, no point in scripting that
<yofel> there is ubuntu-archive-upload, which is similiar to staging-upload as it does git stuff and package creation for the archive
<ScottK> Well, there is a script.  It's name is dput.
<yofel> well. yes. true that
<clivejo> yofel: does that make sense and are we missing anything/wrong in the instructions?
<yofel> clivejo: fixing a couple things, also note that changelog entries usually start with a capital letter (as do git commit messages)
<yofel> also, -m is optional for staging-upload
<clivejo> and dont usually put the wrong version number *face palms*
<yofel> ^^
 * clivejo remembers the time he put the wrong version number in the changelog
<clivejo> that was fun!
<clivejo> is -m not good practice?
<lordievader> git -m? No, Git wants you to give commit messages a title and a body.
<yofel> lordievader: different script
<clivejo> yofel: looks like debian git is back up
<lordievader> Never mind then, haven't said a thing ;)
<yofel> -m is useful when you need something OTHER than "New upstream release", as that's the default value
<yofel> it was added to be used together with --sru
<clivejo> I see, should I take that out then?
<yofel> I already did
<yofel> I also added a message saying that --help is useable for all scripts
<yofel> we should verfiy that and also review the help messages
<clivejo> we should also keep the working directory consistent 
<clivejo> step 6 has it ~/workspace/plasma
<yofel> right, at least inside one workflow
<clivejo> 9 as /src/plasma
<yofel> well, different people wrote the README :P
<clivejo> what would you prefer?
<yofel> lets go with workspace
<yofel> I use neither of that, as that's personal preference
<clivejo> what do you use?
<yofel> depending on the situation, /tmp/something or ~/dump/kubuntu/tmp/something
<yofel> workspace is fine
<clivejo> is dump a self cleaning folder?
<yofel> it was at some point, not anymore
<yofel> hence /tmp
<clivejo> clever
<clivejo> should consider that
<clivejo> auto delete after a certain amount of time
<clivejo> yofel: could you pause KCI, I want to try running staging-upload again
<clivejo> debian appears to be back online
<yofel> staging-upload doesn't require ci pause
<yofel> git-push-all does
<yofel> ping me again when you need to push, I'll be around for most of the evening
<clivejo> glad to have your internet fixed I bet!
<yofel> YES
<clivejo> Im hoping ovidiu-florin will be online later, so we can work on some more guides
<clivejo> its kinda fun
<yofel> I actually dug stuff up in the trash bin: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/ReleasePackaging?action=recall&rev=9 https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment?action=recall&rev=14
<yofel> most of that is obsolete, but there are a couple still useful notes in there
<clivejo> yofel: how come we dont use that wiki on kubuntu.org?
<yofel> because initial login to the wiki can take you hours (never log out, seriously), and I think we wanted to build wiki-based docs, which was only possible with mediawiki.
<yofel> so in the end everyone was fed up with moinmoin and we switched to community which is mediawiki
<clivejo> I like the way its branded kubuntu
<clivejo> could we not host our own wikimedia install and have it nicely branded?
<yofel> well, we can move BACK if we want to... 
<yofel> find a maintainer for it and we can
<yofel> wiki spam protection is quite a bit of work
<clivejo> I find the KDE one hard to read and boring :/
<yofel> well, the *content* is our fault :P
<clivejo> would you not lock it down to a handful of registered users?
<yofel> the point of a wiki is kind of to have everyone contribute to it...
<yofel> we can just write RCS pages like our current docs otherwise
<clivejo> well to a certain degree
<clivejo> not every Tom Dick or Harry
<clivejo> but having to apply for membership here wouldnt be a big deal?
<clivejo> or maybe link it with LP?
<clivejo> the way KCI works?
<yofel> seriously, all of that would be more work than just using moinmoin again..
<yofel> and we already don't do a good job with server maintenance, so lets not add even more stuff to maintain
<clivejo> Id help out, I have a few mediawiki installs
<clivejo> who does the server maintenance anyways?
<clivejo> yofel: has there been changes to the KA scripts?  I am noticing that it is bumping the extra-cmake-modules in control file to (>= 5.17.0~)
<clivejo> the last one to go by was at (>= 0.0.9) now been bumped up
<yofel> no idea
<yofel> not from me at least
<yofel> the debian merges might have brought that in
<clivejo> yes, thats what happened
<clivejo> ok two are in manual
<clivejo> discover and kwin
<clivejo> ah, the patch needs taking out of kwin
<clivejo> Add_workaround_for_broken_no-XRandr_in_screen_edge_test.patch as it was cherry picked from upstream
<clivejo> which branch do I need to change?
<yofel> kwin was the complicated thing
<clivejo> yup
<clivejo> I manually merged in the two archive changes
<clivejo> one was that patch, but that now needs removed
<yofel> I would apply the changes to a new branch coming from the old archive state (there should be a git tag for the upload)
<yofel> then merge said branch into kubuntu_xenial_archive, fix things up and remove the patch
<yofel> OR you just apply the relevant change by hand
<yofel> which is what rohan suggested yesterday
<clivejo> yofel: thats what I did, but the patch is still in the xenial branch
<yofel> then drop it
<clivejo> Im unsure how
<yofel> git rm ?
<clivejo> Im in the manual/kwin/git
<clivejo> and have rm -r patches
<clivejo> and added a changelog entry
<clivejo> can I push the changes from here?
<yofel> then do git add -u or so
<clivejo> should I just upload what I have done so far?
<clivejo> need to go for an hour or so
<clivejo> I could leave it uploading to the PPA
<clivejo> fix kwin later
<clivejo> yofel: ^
<yofel> sure
<clivejo> ok, uploading
<clivejo> Ill be back later :)
<soee_> yofel: can you update 5.5.1labels to 5.5.2 in status page http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/plasma/  ?
<yofel> oh, he didn't do that, sec
<yofel> done
<soee_> i see old ones :D
<soee_> also kwin and discover are 5.5.1 while others are 5.5.2  on the status list ?
<yofel> page generation is cronned, come back in ~4min
<yofel> they're missing, need fixing
<soee_> aaah :)
<soee_> ovidiu-florin: hows teh work on packaging docs going ?
<soee_> yofel: i tihnk 5.5.2 can be removed now fromthe status list?
<soee_> sorry 5.5.1
<yofel> too lazy for that
<soee_> i would do that i i would know how :D
<yofel> you could send in a patch for the script to auto-remove old stuff
<yofel> need shell access to the server right now
<yofel> *needs
<ovidiu-florin> soee_: https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-packaging
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: I'm back
<ovidiu-florin> kind of...
<ovidiu-florin> I'll read through the docs
<ovidiu-florin> I've skimmed through the IRC backlog, do I need to look more in depth?
<ovidiu-florin> depot.kde.org does not work, it that the right link?
<tsimonq2> is Kubuntu affected by bug 1527353, or not?
<ubottu> bug 1527353 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity shows for a second goes to tty then starts live session. " [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527353
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: ssh/sftp only
<yofel> I think
<soee_> yofel: Frameworks 5.17 are they any hard to fix to build ?
<ahoneybunn> o/
<yofel> soee_: there's one package that's utterly broken
<ahoneybunn> so apps 15.12 is the latest?
<soee_> latest release yes
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: can you please help in the docs with line 21 and 61?
<ahoneybunn> mm
 * ahoneybunn is having server issues
 * clivejo is having power issues
<clivejo> Storm Fred took out the power for a few hours
<clivejo> and I have no history of how many packages I got uploaded before the power went out
<clivejo> yofel: you about?
 * ovidiu-florin is having beer issues
<yofel> clivejo: just re-upload everything (if you can)
<yofel> otherwise just look at the PPA
<yofel> or your acceptance emails
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: can you give some feedback on lines 21 and 61 please?
<ahoneybun> yay my znc server is working again
<clivejo> looks like they all made it
<clivejo> user-manager_5.5.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa1_source.ppa.upload
<clivejo> well thats good
<clivejo> yofel: ok regarding kwin
<clivejo> I have made the changes to the git folder
<clivejo> but when I try to push the commit it wants to push to the master branch as well
<clivejo> I use git gui
<ahoneybun> wow a new mediacenter
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: why magic? All it does it run git push --follow-tags on all the git repositories
<yofel> after a CI paused check
<ovidiu-florin> ok,let me put it this way
<ovidiu-florin> "I dont' know anything about packaging" Why should I run that command?
<ahoneybun> I have to go 
<ahoneybun> now that my ZNC is up I'll see all the messages over IRC now
<yofel> well, this is about git basics, if you clone and change stuff, you will eventually have to push
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: do you also have changes on the master branch ?
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: I dont want the changes to master
<clivejo> master is debian stuff
<clivejo> dont want to be messing with that
<ovidiu-florin> then push only the changes on the branch you want
<ovidiu-florin> or revert the changes to master you've made
<clivejo> but how do I do that using git gui?
<clivejo> but when I do a git status I get
<clivejo> On branch kubuntu_xenial_archive
<clivejo> Your branch is ahead of 'origin/kubuntu_xenial_archive' by 2 commits.
<clivejo>   (use "git push" to publish your local commits)
<clivejo> nothing to commit, working directory clean
<clivejo> I dont understand why git gui wants to push to master#
<yofel> I have no idea how git gui works, I never use that
<clivejo> yofel you think its safe enough to do a git push?
<yofel> just do a git push origin kubuntu_xenial_archive to be on the safe side
<clivejo> done
<clivejo> yofel: how to I retry packaging kwin?
<clivejo> git-buildpackage-ppa ?
<yofel> yep
<clivejo> what folder?
<clivejo> git?
<yofel> yes
<clivejo> sorry, just checking
<clivejo> I need practice at this
<clivejo> ok that seems to have built
<clivejo> I have a changes file
<clivejo> cp this folder back into the workspace root?
<yofel> doesn't matter
<clivejo> its ok to leave it in manual?
<yofel> yes
<clivejo> will git-all script see it there?
<yofel> you already pushed, so it doesn't have to
<clivejo> oh, yeah was just about to say
<clivejo> duh
<yofel> git-push-all will only push the non-failures
<yofel> if you want it to push the manual stuff too, then yes, you need to move them out of manual
<clivejo> got ya
<clivejo> uploaded kwin to staging PPA
<clivejo> discover doesnt seem to exist
<clivejo> was it renamed?
<clivejo> oh its looking for 5.5.1
<yofel> formerly muon(-discover)
<clivejo> yofel: it hasnt staged the packaging for discover
<yofel> branch or repo missing maybe
<clivejo> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/plasma/discover.git/log/?h=kubuntu_xenial_archive
<clivejo> xenial branch is there
<yofel> no idea what happened then
<clivejo> and sgclark updated it to 5.5.1
<clivejo> can it be staged manually?
<clivejo> oh rerun the script with just that one package?
<clivejo> discover has never been released and had a 4: epoch :/
<clivejo> yofel: can I set the version back to discover (4:5.5.2-0ubuntu1)
<clivejo> ok, Ive bumped the version and uploaded the package to LP
<clivejo> would you pause KCI so I can do some magic "git-push-all -t  ~/workspace/plasma/ -r plasma"
<yofel> if it has and need an epoch you'll likely have to add it to the epoch lists
<yofel> wherever needed
<clivejo> invalid option: -r
<clivejo> I guess thats not needed!
<clivejo> need to update the readme and packaging docs
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: regarding line 64, the script is called staging-upload.  The process of staging is preparing the packages for an upload to LP.  Basically the step before
<clivejo> yofel: Ive bumped the version in build-status-config/plasma.conf to 5.5.2
<yofel> clivejo: you'll get a push/pull conflict, as I already did that
<clivejo> so I see
<ovidiu-florin> that doc. is still not noob friendly enough
 * ovidiu-florin thinks on how we can improve it
<clivejo> yofel: I was looking for a commit message!
<ScottK> Those of you who are new are the only ones who can improve such docs.
<ScottK> For people that really know the stuff already, they can't tell if it's clear/complete or not.
<clivejo> do you leave is blank?
<clivejo> oh I see it now - Build plasma 5.5.2
<clivejo> cool
<ovidiu-florin> ScottK: anyone can do it
<ovidiu-florin> just think of what you have to do in order to set up a machine for you to work on from scratch
<valorie> ScottK is right -- new people have the magic of ignorance
<valorie> new people are the best ones for testing out how good docs are
 * clivejo nods knowingly
<valorie> that's why I started my blog -- to write instructions for people who know as little as me
<valorie> :-)
<clivejo> and having a yofel on hand is the best way!
<valorie> for sure
<valorie> but if the new people can fix the docs to put in all those steps that the experts know, and therefore don't put in the docs 
<valorie> we'll have docs that can lead the beginner into Being Productive
<valorie> that will make everybody's job easier
<valorie> I'm so happy to see this starting
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: have you experience using mediawiki?
<ovidiu-florin> yes
<clivejo> how do you feel about moving  wiki.kubuntu.org back to mediawiki? 
 * genii makes more coffee
<ovidiu-florin> wiki.kubuntu.org never was on mediawiki
<ovidiu-florin> https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu is mediawiki
<clivejo> well remove the words back to
<yofel> clivejo: are you done pushing?
<clivejo> yes
<clivejo> can you unpause please
<clivejo> thanking you kindly
<clivejo> yofel: reckon its safe to override these lintian complaints - https://paste.kde.org/pcbnxdxyt
<yofel> no, no, no, and the last one is probably a follow up error from the previous ones
<clivejo> dratts
<yofel> well, depends on what those things do
<yofel> if they're plugins, then they should at least not be in the main lib dir, or if they're libs then the soversion is missing
<clivejo> kwin has some missing local files
<clivejo> -./usr/share/locale/fi/LC_MESSAGES/kwin_scripts.mo
<clivejo> can I put them in kwin-data.install?
<yofel> yes, and wildcard it for the lang, i.e. locale/*/LC_..
<clivejo> yofel: what does W: libkf5screen6: symbols-declares-dependency-on-other-package libkf5screen7 #MINVER# mean?
<clivejo> should the version be 7?
#kubuntu-devel 2015-12-30
<clivejo> ah sgclark decremented to libkf5screen6, but the symbols file is refering tp libkf5screen7
<valorie> clivejo: sitter and I went through all the old kubuntu pages on the ubuntu wiki, and copied what was good
<valorie> if you see something we missed, please flag it somehow so we can pick it up
<valorie> we didn't remove much, since that is 8 or so years of kubuntu history
 * clivejo is off to bed
<clivejo> night all
<valorie> niters clivejo
<valorie> sweet dreams
<soee_> bye
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: does this mean that this had a warning? 01:03:26 W, [2015-12-30T01:03:26.684863 #1]  WARN -- : APT run (apt-get, ["-y", "-o", "APT::Get::force-yes=true", "-o", "Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true", "update"])
<ovidiu-florin> Yeee, I fixed one
<ovidiu-florin> kind of...
<valorie> cool!
<ovidiu-florin> I don't understand why this one fails
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ovidiu-florin> morning lordievader
<lordievader> Hey ovidiu-florin, how are you doing?
<ovidiu-florin> I'm looking into http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_akonadi-calendar to see why it fails
<ovidiu-florin> so, akonadi-calendar v15.12 should build just fine
<ovidiu-florin> Im' looking into kcalcore
<lordievader> Lots of 'cannot access'...
<lordievader> Is it supposed to be <path>:<repeat-path>?
<ovidiu-florin> I don't know
<lordievader> I can imagine that cannot be found if it is given like that to cd ;)
<ovidiu-florin> ^ faild because of KWallet failing
<ovidiu-florin> dh_install: libpam-kwallet5 missing files (lib/*/security/pam_kwallet5.so), aborting
<ovidiu-florin> debian/rules:27: recipe for target 'override_dh_install' failed
<ovidiu-florin> I'd like to test this localy
<ovidiu-florin> how can I do that?
<ovidiu-florin> yofel? clivejo?
<ovidiu-florin> I've started another build to see if the build logs are still validhttp://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_kwallet-pam
<ovidiu-florin> valid* http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_kwallet-pam
<lordievader> ovidiu-florin: I suppose you can do that in a pbuilder environment using the sources.
<ovidiu-florin> lordievader: I don't know how to do that, or how to set one up
<lordievader> Setting it up ain't to difficult [1], but it could be that the Kubuntu team has better ways ;) [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: got a buildlog for kwallet?
<ovidiu-florin> kwallet-pam
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: ^
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo:  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/232295000/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.kwallet-pam_4%3A5.5.1%2Bgit20151230.0942%2B16.04-0_BUILDING.txt.gz
<ovidiu-florin> the dh_install fails
<ovidiu-florin> what's that?
<clivejo> where is this from?
<clivejo> kci?
<ovidiu-florin> yes
<clivejo> might be better to fix it in xenial archive
<clivejo> http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/plasma/build_status_5.5.2_xenial.html
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: have you a xenial installation?
<clivejo> or a pbuilder?
<ovidiu-florin> same error 
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: no
<ovidiu-florin> how do I set one up?
<clivejo> ok, you need one really
<clivejo> first install the necessary packages
<clivejo> sudo apt-get install pbuilder debootstrap devscripts
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: maybe start a notepad so we can add this to the docs
<lordievader> clivejo: The Ubuntu/Debian docs on pbuilder are quite nice.
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: add it in the setup section
<ovidiu-florin> what we need is any different?
<clivejo> lordievader: yeah, but bit flakey on setting up different arch and distributions
<lordievader> Is it?
<clivejo> ok, ovidiu-florin is new to this, we'll use him a guinea pig!
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: your task is to setup a xenial pbuild environment :)
<ovidiu-florin> yeeey
<ovidiu-florin> can I do this in a wily systme?
 * clivejo has to go walk the pup
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: how much do you walk it?
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: yup, the whole idea of this is to create a building environment separate to your host
<ovidiu-florin> I have to do the same
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: I was thinking of building a docker image for this
<clivejo> never done that
<clivejo> I believe LP uses pbuild
<ovidiu-florin> No problem
<clivejo> so we can create a nice clean LP like environment
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: when do you go, and how ong do you walk your dog?
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: hard to say, depends on weather and what else hes been doing
<ovidiu-florin> I asked because I thought we should go at the same time
<clivejo> if hes been "helping" me on the farm I dont tend to walk him on the lead as much
<clivejo> Storm Fred has left me with a few issues to clean up
<clivejo> Thanks Fred!
<clivejo> I better go before he eats my wellies
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo yofel https://hub.docker.com/r/ovidiub13/kubuntu-packaging-devel/
<ovidiu-florin> you can check the github repo for more info
<ovidiu-florin> and you can see the Dockerfile to see what it does
<ovidiu-florin> so far I've done only what clivejo told me
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: thanks, I'll look at it in ~3h or so
<yofel> do you know a good docker guide? I'm not very familiar with it yet. Even if I'll probably manage to get the image running at least
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: to get the image you have the command on the image page
<ovidiu-florin> just like github shows you the git clone command
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: to run the image, depends on the image and what it does
<yofel> the image is the output from the Dockerfile or did you modify it later? (if that's possible)
<yofel> good start at least, but we'll need a way to configure it, or add a simple setup script (for stuff like DEBEMAIL etc.)
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: of course
<ovidiu-florin> I have that in plan, but I don't know yet what to add
<ovidiu-florin> yes, it's the output of the Dockerfile
<ovidiu-florin> it's an automated build from the Github repo
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ovidiu-florin> hi BluesKaj
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: the best docker tutorial is the official Docker documentation
<yofel> hm ok. Last time I read it I didn't get very far. But I didn't really have something to work on either back then.
<BluesKaj> hi ovidiu-florin, yp
<BluesKaj> yofel
<yofel> hey
<yofel> bbl
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: should I add build-essential and cmake to the image?
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: are you back?
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: are you back?
<soee_> hiho
<soee_> tomorrow Alpha 1 of Xenial :)
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: RE
<ovidiu-florin> so that's a yes?
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: offhand I would add: ubuntu-dev-tools, pkg-kde-tools, dpkg-dev
<ovidiu-florin> added
<yofel> for KA we'll need some python and ruby stuff, but python-launchpadlib, python3-launchpadlib are the only ones I know offhand
<ovidiu-florin> anything else?
<yofel> let me look through things a bit
<ovidiu-florin> awesome
<yofel> git, git-buildpackage
<yofel> bzr-builddeb
<yofel> python-debian, python3-debian
<yofel> python-distro-info python3-distro-info
<yofel> python-apt, python3-apt
<yofel> ruby
<yofel> python-future
<yofel> those are the deps for KA that I can see right now
<yofel> we should probably also build and install kubuntu-dev-tools
<yofel> (bzr repo at lp:kubuntu-dev-tools)
<yofel> mostly obsolete, but I'm still using at least 2 scripts from there
<ovidiu-florin> so we also need bazaar
<yofel> bzr-builddeb should pull that in
<ovidiu-florin> yup
<yofel> we'll also need a small pbuilder guide. Question is whether we should just recommend pbuilder-dist (which is simple to use but has limited flexibility) or use a custom pbuilderrc which would allow flexible usage like explained on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment?action=recall&rev=14
<yofel> I haven't read the ubuntu pbuilder guide in a long time
<yofel> the pbuilder-hooks are a requirement really, you want to use those
 * yofel off to make dinner, bbiab
<ovidiu-florin> image is built with the dependencies
<ovidiu-florin> working on adding a workspace now
<ovidiu-florin> what's apt-utils?
<yofel> nothing I particulary use
<yofel> oh, also add apt-transport-https to the dep list
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: did you get yourself a pbuild environment
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: I'm builting a Docker image for that
<clivejo> oh
<clivejo> can you make a pbuild one too
<clivejo> if we get you up and running in pbuild, then look into docker
<yofel> the point would be to have pbuilder running inside docker
<soee_> someone is working on 5.5.2 ? :)
<clivejo> http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/plasma/build_status_5.5.2_xenial.html
<clivejo> I wanted to show ovidiu-florin how to add in missing files for kwallet-pam
<ovidiu-florin> can I do something while the Docker image is beiing built?
<soee_> http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: I dont know anything about docker, so cant help you with that
<ovidiu-florin> you missunderstood my question
<clivejo> I did?
<ovidiu-florin> yes
<ovidiu-florin> I asked what can I do, regardles of what's happening with docker
<clivejo> oh create a pbuild
<clivejo> for xenial
<clivejo> and add the staging ppa's
<clivejo> and install the kubuntu pbuilder hooks
<clivejo> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/pbuilder/pbuilder-hooks
<ovidiu-florin> how do I create a pbuild?
<clivejo> yofel: could that be moved to git too?
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: your challenge this morning was to see if you could create one using the ubuntu howto page
<clivejo> and if you had problems to rewrite the docs
<clivejo> I hit a few problems following those instructions
<yofel> could be, I didn't bother with that so far
<ovidiu-florin> [12:01:05] <clivejo> lordievader: yeah, but bit flakey on setting up different arch and distributions
<yofel> until there's some concrete advantage, I don't move stuff
<ovidiu-florin> I took from here that it's different what we need from the Ubuntu docs
<yofel> that's a clone-once-and-forget thing anyway usually
 * clivejo dislikes bzr
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: advantage is git > bzr
<clivejo> ovidiu-florin: the guide yofel pointed out is better IMO 
<yofel> and the downside is that all current users need to remember to switch their checkouts and that people need to know that the location changed
<clivejo> shame its in CategoryKubuntuRubbish
<clivejo> does anyone know who maintains the wiki.kubuntu.org server?
<yofel> canonical
<clivejo> oh
<yofel> wiki.kubuntu.org is an alias for wiki.ubuntu.com
<yofel> with a different default theme
<clivejo> is the theme on git or somewhere?
<yofel> in bzr somewhere I believe, but I don't remember where
<yofel> Riddell: do you remember? ^
<clivejo> yofel: https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-website/kubuntu-website/kubuntu-wikitheme
<clivejo> ?
<yofel> that looks right actually
<clivejo> no updates in a while
<yofel> we once tried to update the theme a bit, but nobody ever actually implemented the design that sheytan came up with
<clivejo> its moinmoin?
<yofel> yep
 * clivejo cowers
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: the https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment?action=recall&rev=14 guide gives a .pbuilderrc that only covers up to trusty
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: well, it was never updated since the page ended up in the trash bin
<ovidiu-florin> the debian suites are also old
<yofel> although we could just remove the safety check for the suites
<ovidiu-florin> so....
<yofel> less maintenance
<ovidiu-florin> I shouldn't add that rc anywhay?
<clivejo> just use the default one?
<ovidiu-florin> what default one?
<yofel> aaah, the suites are used for the mirror detection to keep ubuntu and debian apart
<yofel> default == empty
<clivejo> one in /usr/share/pbuilder/pbuilderrc
<yofel> I believed that's always used
<yofel> your own one just overrides the default values
<yofel> in the end, those rc files are just shell scripts
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: add it anyway, I'll send you a patch which removes the suite handling later
<ovidiu-florin> I'll add it when I'll get the patch, till then I'll use the default
<yofel> ack, that's enough to build plain xenial chroots anyway
<clivejo> I think Jon or yofel pastebin mine
<yofel> ?
<clivejo> Im trying to remember when I setup mine
<yofel> That rc file in the wiki is derived from mine, yes. And mine is derived from the one harald wrote years ago
<clivejo> mind sharing it yofel?
<yofel> it's on the wiki page? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ninjas-pbuilderrc.txt
<yofel> that's the "clean" version of mine
<clivejo> I mean your current one
<yofel> that's a mess :P
<clivejo> LOL
<clivejo> it must work though!
<yofel> lots of commented stuff, to make that useful for other people I would need to clean things up and document it
<yofel> well, it does, but it supports chroots for ubuntu, debian and tanglu at the same time and stuff
<yofel> there are useful things in there like eatmydata, pigz and parallel support
<yofel> but lots of stuff newcomers will definitely not need
<ovidiu-florin> is there any problem if I run pbuilder as root?
<ovidiu-florin> on a VM?
<yofel> in a VM not, in docker, no idea
<clivejo> yofel: is it possible to make a rc file to create pbuilder environments with PPAs auto enabled?
<yofel> yes, by listing them in OTHERMIRROR
<clivejo> do you have to edit that for each session?
<yofel> you need to be careful though as LP doesn't initialize the package lists for a release until you upload something
<clivejo> I made one wily-kci and wily-staging
<yofel> so until that happens, apt will fail on that PPA
<clivejo> but I forget how I did it
<yofel> the -suffix is added with pro=kci with my rc
<soee_> can we have 5.5.2 finished today ?
<yofel> no
<clivejo> LOL
<yofel> meh, now that I'm talking about it, let me write a clean rc
<yofel> well, no == very very unlikely, until someone does a fixing marathon starting now
<clivejo> soee_: forward your patches to me and Ill push them and upload to LP
<soee_> clivejo: i'm waiting for docs to get started with packaging :)
<clivejo> LOL
<clivejo> well ovidiu-florin has started those
<clivejo> follow along now if you are interested
<ovidiu-florin> I: Extracting zlib1g...
<ovidiu-florin> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/21/. mount -t proc proc /proc
<ovidiu-florin> W: See /var/cache/pbuilder/build/21/./debootstrap/debootstrap.log for details
<ovidiu-florin> E: debootstrap failed
<ovidiu-florin> W: Aborting with an error
<ovidiu-florin> I: cleaning the build env 
<ovidiu-florin> I: removing directory /var/cache/pbuilder/build//21 and its subdirectories
<clivejo> setup a pbuilder environment is first step in building and testing packages yourself
<ovidiu-florin> I ran this: dist=trusty ARCH=i386 pbuilder create
<clivejo> why trusty?
<yofel> sounds like sudo is missing?
<ovidiu-florin> how am I supposed to check those logs?
<clivejo> and why i386
<ovidiu-florin> because https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment?action=recall&rev=14 says so
<clivejo> LOL
<clivejo> dont take it so literally!
<yofel> well, that's supposed to work
<ovidiu-florin> I executed that as root
<ovidiu-florin> in docker (same as a VM, stop being scared of docker)
<clivejo> try sudo dist=xenial pbuilder create
<ovidiu-florin> I am ROOT! I don't neet sudo
<clivejo> just do it in a regular konsole?
<ovidiu-florin> I'm doing it in Konsole
<clivejo> I dont undertstand why you want a container inside a container, inside a container
<ovidiu-florin> but I don't think the TERM wrapper has anything to do woth this
<yofel> hm, then the mount might be failing
<ovidiu-florin> hmmm....
<clivejo> anyways, diner time and I could eat a horse!
<clivejo> chat later
 * tsimonq2 hands clivejo a horse
<tsimonq2> :D
<ovidiu-florin> :))
<ovidiu-florin> LOL
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: it seems the chroot fails again
<ovidiu-florin> or mount
<ovidiu-florin> dang
<yofel> try a plain debootstrap run, that should leave the log
<yofel> pbuilder deletes the tmpdir on failure
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: can you give me a command please?
<yofel> debootstrap xenial /tmp/chroot
<soee_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9m8O-7J5NM
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: mount: proc is write-protected, mounting read-only
<ovidiu-florin> mount: cannot mount proc read-only
<ovidiu-florin> this is what I get in Docker
<ovidiu-florin> anyhow
<yofel> yeah, well, that won't work
<ovidiu-florin> in the host, directly on my system it finished ok
<ovidiu-florin> what now
<ovidiu-florin> ?
<ovidiu-florin> pbuilder hooks
<yofel> no idea, I'm not familiar with docker, in LXC I know that I have to run unconfined containers. Maybe I can look into that later
<yofel> here's the pbuilderrc btw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14286057/
<ovidiu-florin> forget docker
<ovidiu-florin> tell me what needs to be done regularly
<ovidiu-florin> and I'll figure out the docker part
<yofel> for the hooks see the rc I pasted. You need to check out the hooks, then point HOOKDIR to the location
<yofel> pbuilder will execute any hooks that are +x
<ovidiu-florin> now run pbuilder create again?
<yofel> yes
<ovidiu-florin> ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libeatmydata.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded (cannot open shared object file): ignored.
<yofel> add eatmydata and pigz to the deps though
<yofel> as the rc says in line 1
<ovidiu-florin> are those packages that need installing?
<yofel> yes
<ovidiu-florin> interesting names
<yofel> well, eatmydata makes sync() and fsync() noops, hence eatmydata if your system crashes. pigz is a parallel version of gzip
<ovidiu-florin> ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libeatmydata.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded (cannot open shared object file): ignored.
<ovidiu-florin> I still get this
<ovidiu-florin> but only when "I: Obtaining the cached apt archive contents"
<yofel> it will stop once eatmydata gets installed in the chroot, which happens close to the end
<ovidiu-florin> ...
<yofel> I'm open for suggestions how to improve that
<yofel> we can ofc. disable eatmydata
<yofel> hm... maybe one could create symlinks for the relevant commands instead of using LD_PRELOAD
<yofel> no, that'll fail completely until eatmydata is installed :/
<ovidiu-florin> I don't know what pbuilder does exactly yet
<yofel> it's a script set that creates temporary chroots, installs the build-deps of a package, then builds it
<yofel> it's for  building packages in clean environments
<yofel> similiar how the buildds on Launchpad do the package builds
<ovidiu-florin> ok
<yofel> that way you can test whether your package will build on LP, or not
<ovidiu-florin> it's finished
<ovidiu-florin> what now?
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: ?
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: ?
<clivejo> where have you got to?
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: $ sudo -E dist=xenial pbuilder create finished
<clivejo> ok
<clivejo> use "pbuilder-dist xenial login --save-after-login" to test it
<clivejo> it will extract the file and setup a nice clean xenial environment
<clivejo> do an apt-get update while you are in there
<clivejo> control and D exits it and saves the changes back to the tarball
<yofel> you don't usually want to pass --save-after-login unless you intentionally want to edit something in the chroot
<yofel> and s/pbuilder-dist/pbuilder/
<clivejo> yeah, this is just a one off to test it and check its package list is updated
<clivejo> oups
<clivejo> yofel would you do a apt-get upgrade too?
<yofel> no, pbuilder update does that
<clivejo> would it speed it up a bit?
<yofel> that does update + dist-upgrade + clean + autoremove I believe
<clivejo> from having to update every time?
<yofel> well, we have a pbuilder hook for updating every time
<yofel> but that doesn't persist the update, so pbuilder update is something you want to run every now and then
<clivejo> how does pbuilder update work?
<clivejo> can that be done from outside?
<yofel> as I just said, I believe it runs apt-get update + dist-upgrade + clean + autoremove. But I didn't actually check that
<yofel> that has to be done from the outside
<yofel> update is just another command like build or login
<clivejo> do you pass the environment name too?
<clivejo> pbuilder update xenial-amd64?
<clivejo> and it saves it all back to the tarball?
<yofel> well, if you're on xenial amd64 then just "pbuilder update" will do the job with my rc file, otherwise it would be "dist=xenial ARCH=i386 pbuilder update"
<yofel> and yes, it saves the changes after a successful upgrade
<yofel> read the manual ^^
<clivejo> I been doing it manually :P
<ovidiu-florin> the archive is in /var/cache/pbuilder/xenial-amd64.tgz 
<ovidiu-florin> so pbuilder-dist xenial login --save-after-login failed
<yofel> just run: pbuilder login
<clivejo> I had a mistake
<clivejo> its just pbuilder
<ovidiu-florin> $ sudo dist=xenial pbuilder login
<ovidiu-florin> ok, I'm in now
<ovidiu-florin> do I exit and do $ sudo dist=xenial pbuilder update ?
<yofel> yes
<clivejo> well its brand new, it shouldnt need updating
<clivejo> but its good info to know
 * clivejo is learning new stuff too
<yofel> then, if you want to try it out, you can fetch some source package and pass the path to the .dsc file to pbuilder build. Just apt-get source pkg-kde-tools or so, that's small
<ovidiu-florin> where does apt-get source download?
<clivejo> yofel: I prefer to use nano and installed it manually in the environment, how would you do that?
<yofel> current directory
<ovidiu-florin> tried it and saw
<ovidiu-florin> thanks
<yofel> clivejo: set EDITOR to nano in the rc and add nano to the EXTRAPACKAGES
<yofel> those are the 2 places that the rc has "vim" set
<clivejo> it only installs it when a hook is triggered?
<yofel> no, by default
<yofel> although you can add it to the shell hook instead if you want
<yofel> I prefer to have it usable when I login too though
<yofel> and depending on the actions different hooks get executed
<clivejo> I had it installed into the tarball in wily
<yofel> again, see hook section in the manual
<clivejo> wasnt sure if that was a good or bad thing
<yofel> as long as you're aware of the change, it's ok. Just don't install anything that has heavy deps
<ovidiu-florin> where does it build it?
<yofel> as otherwise that'll defy the point of a "clean" environment
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: /var/cache/pbuilder/build/<pbuilder process ID>/
<ovidiu-florin> /var/cache/pbuilder/build/15184 is the only folder and it's empty
<yofel> what did pbuilder do?
<clivejo> yofel: also can pbuilder be configured to use local apt cache?
<yofel> it will wipe the directory once the build finishes
<yofel> the build artifacts should be in /var/cache/pbuilder/xenial-amd64/result/
<ovidiu-florin> install dependencies, run lintian and some hooks
<yofel> clivejo: that's what my rc does
<yofel> there's lots of settings, see pbuilderrc manpage
<clivejo> Im running xenial locally, but it always downloads new copies for pbuilder
<ovidiu-florin> yup
<ovidiu-florin> they are there
<yofel> then things worked fine
<yofel> there is a hook by default to drop you to a shell inside the chroot on build failure
<ovidiu-florin> clivejo: now how do I get the sources for kwallet-pam?
<clivejo> yippeee
<yofel> you can add one to do the same on success if you want
<clivejo> you will need to configure pbuilder to use some Launchpad PPA's
<clivejo> if its plasma 5.5.2 you want, you would need to add the staging PPA's
<yofel> when you add PPA's to the chroot, beware of what you add. If the PPAs you add don't match the dependencies of the PPA on LP, then you will waste your time debugging weird failures
<yofel> always make sure you know what environment you're building in
<yofel> currently the PPAs don't have any deps, so I would recommend making one chroot per staging ppa
<BluesKaj> a sad day for debian http://venturebeat.com/2015/12/30/debian-founder-and-docker-employee-ian-murdock-has-died-at-42/
<yofel> a sad day indeed
<ovidiu-florin> yofel: a PPA has dependencies?
<yofel> you can add other PPAs as dependencies
<yofel> if you go to the main overview page of a ppa, there's an "Edit Dependencies" button at the top right
<clivejo> how do you make a chroot per staging ppa?
<yofel> that'll list what primary archive repositories it uses, as well as all ppa deps
<yofel> pro=plasma pbuilder create
<yofel> pro=frameworks pbuilder create
<yofel> etc.
<yofel> with my rc at least
<yofel> pro is short for "project" because I'm lazy
 * clivejo wishes he could watch yofel in action
<clivejo> you have so many time saving hints and tips
<ovidiu-florin> I have to go
<yofel> not that easy to do that. Sure, I could work in a container that you could watch, but I won't be keeping my ssh and gpg keys there, so that's of limited value
<ovidiu-florin> I think my grandpa just died
<ovidiu-florin> see you .... sometime....
<clivejo> :o
<yofel> my.. condolences, see you
<clivejo> thats terrible news
<yofel> this year is not ending well
<clivejo> yofel: is  apt 1.1.10 the new faster one? 
<yofel> faster one?
<yofel> ah, looks like it
<clivejo> read something in the news
<clivejo> let me look
<clivejo> ah here - https://juliank.wordpress.com/2015/12/30/apt-1-1-8-to-1-1-10-going-faster/
<yofel> from the changelog, .6 and .7 sped up rred mangling, and .9 sped up  cache generation
<clivejo> I see 1.1.10 in the xenial archive
<clivejo> yofel: did _groo... ever get back in touch regarding sddm?
<yofel> no, but I never looked at it either
<clivejo> seems to work, just wrong version numbers
 * clivejo is making a plasma ppa pbuilder using yofel magic script
<yofel> clivejo: I'm just making chroots in my container, feel free to use that if you need a server or need a shared shell: ssh -p 2223 ubuntu@176.9.34.198
<clivejo> I like to do it locally, but my internet is soooo slow
<yofel> yeah, I prefer local as well, just telling you in case you need it
<clivejo> do you run xenial locally?
<yofel> on my laptop, yes. Haven't updated in a while though
<clivejo> yofel: kwallet-pam is saying there is a missing file debian/libpam-kwallet4//lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/security/libpam_kwallet.so
<clivejo> has that package been removed?
<clivejo> oh
<clivejo> no, the files have been renamed
<yofel> wait, wasn't that fixed in the CI branch?
<clivejo> one of them is
<clivejo> kwallet5 doesnt seems to be
<clivejo> yofel: ping#
<clivejo> !kde-gtk-config
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about kde-gtk-config
<clivejo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-gtk-config/4:5.4.3-0ubuntu1
<clivejo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-gtk-config
<clivejo> this is giving me a headache!
<clivejo> !kde-config-gtk-style
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about kde-config-gtk-style
<clivejo> %&*$
<valorie> clivejo: I think you have to use info
<valorie> the !term is for factoids
<valorie> !info kde-gtk-config
<ubottu> Package kde-gtk-config does not exist in wily
<valorie> pfff, helpful
<clivejo> !info kde-config-gtk-style
<ubottu> kde-config-gtk-style (source: kde-gtk-config): KDE configuration module for GTK+ 2.x and GTK+ 3.x styles selection. In component universe, is optional. Version 4:5.4.2-0ubuntu1 (wily), package size 169 kB, installed size 726 kB
<valorie> ovidiu-florin: so sorry to hear about your grandpa
<clivejo> breeze-gtk is really annoying me now!
<valorie> gtk annoys me, full-stop
<valorie> why is gramps gtk!
<valorie> me hates it
<valorie> clivejo: finally saw your PM
#kubuntu-devel 2015-12-31
<valorie> <clivejo> if you see yofel would you ask him to look at kscreen - 4:5.5.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa1
<valorie> [16:44] <clivejo> I cant figure out what is wrong :(
<valorie> when you return, yofel
<valorie> I'll be leaving early tomorrow and will be offline until Friday afternoon at the earliest
<valorie> now, dinner+dad
<soee> hiho
<soee> i must say win10 performance, animations and design ar epretty nice
<lordievader> Good morning
<clivejo> morning lordievader
<soee> hiho
<clivejo> hi soee
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<clivejo> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi clivejo
<clivejo> !info libkf5screen-dev
<ubottu> libkf5screen-dev (source: libkscreen): library for screen management - development files. In component universe, is extra. Version 4:5.4.2-0ubuntu1 (wily), package size 11 kB, installed size 88 kB
<yofel> moin
<clivejo> yofel !!!
<clivejo> just the man!
<clivejo> Im having problems with libkscreen
<clivejo> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/232253174/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.libkscreen_4%3A5.5.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<ghostcube> http://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/ccc/congress/2015/h264-hd-web/32c3-7146-de-Hardware-Trojaner_in_Security-Chips.mp4   nice one if anyone is interested  btw https://media.ccc.de/c/32c3?sort=date
<yofel> yeah, valorie told me that yesterday..
 * clivejo notices you didnt answer :P
 * clivejo has a bouncer now
<yofel> oooh, they have videos from the ccc, sweet
<yofel> ghostcube: thanks
<ghostcube> np
<yofel> clivejo: I just read my backlog :P
<yofel> but nvm, the log is useless :(
<ghostcube> yofel: the media server has the 5 last congress vids on listing
<ghostcube> from 27 to 32
<yofel> hm...
<clivejo> I mentioned the wrong package
<clivejo> its libkscreen Im having issues with
<yofel> you know, it would be REALLY handy if the status page would provide a link to the DSC
<clivejo> and I _think_ the symbols are the problem
<yofel> libkscreen is frameworks, that should be done
<yofel> the amd64 kscreen log says "doesn't install"
<clivejo> yofel: also breeze-gtk runs some autotests which fail because of no X server
<clivejo> I disabled the tests for now as thats what okular seems to do
<yofel> you could try to run those tests with xvfb-run inside a framebuffer, but that doesn't work always
<clivejo> but Id like to learn about XVFB
<yofel> IIRC it's just somthing like:
<yofel> override_dh_auto_test:
<yofel>     xvfb-run dh_auto_test
<clivejo> is that it?!?
<yofel> some of the packages should use it, just grep over a couple repositories
<clivejo> LOL I asked in #kde-devel and it sounded like it was going to be a huge operation!
<clivejo> anyone talked with ovidiu-florin?
<yofel> haven't seen him since he left
<clivejo> :(
<clivejo> I was hoping the news wasnt true
<soee> yofel: 5.4.3 wan't released in updates for Wily ?
<acher88> sbuild-build-depends-kscreen-dummy : Depends: libkf5screen-dev (>= 4:5.5.1~) but it is not going to be installed
<yofel> soee: yes, because I don't like that release at all, and making sure the SRU doesn't cause UI regressions would be a bit of work
<acher88> From plasma repo package here? https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-plasma/+packages?field.name_filter=libkscreen&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=
<yofel> the "fixed" artwork might be acceptable from a KDE side, not from an ubuntu one
<soee> yofel: ok, thanks
<yofel> acher88: yes, we're looking into it
 * yofel hits pinenty
<yofel> *pinentry
<clivejo> yofel: mind talk,ing me through what is wrong?
<acher88> yofel: great. was trying the staging repos earlier and got http://i.imgur.com/yeOKtp8.png
<yofel> well, we're not done
<acher88> yes, was just seeing how far done they were before it broke
<yofel> acher88: http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/plasma/build_status_5.5.2_xenial.html
<yofel> you probably don't want to try again while there's still red and blue on that page
<mparillo> soee: I thought 5.4.3 was released (at least in the backports) for Wily. http://wire.kubuntu.org/?p=424 
<yofel> 5.4.3 is in the updates ppa, but not in wily-updates
<acher88> yofel: yes I saw. will be easier to build 5.5 myself for now I think
<yofel> clivejo: I'm just building kscreen on ssh -p 2223 ubuntu@176.9.34.198
<yofel> wait what?
<yofel>  libkf5screen6 : Depends: libkf5screen7 (>= 4:5.4.2+git20151012.1045) which is a virtual package and is not provided by any available package.
<yofel> that's complete rubbish
<acher88> looked bizarre to me as well
<yofel> urgh, scarlett broke the symbols file
<BluesKaj> yofel:  so we shouldn't try the staging-plasma ppa yet 
<yofel> please stop using staging altogether, we'll move stuff to landing when it's consumable
<yofel> clivejo: libkscreen fixed I hope
<soee> +1
<BluesKaj> got it
<yofel> Dependency wait: kdelibs5-dev (>= 4:4.14.15~)
<yofel> great, plasma has deps on applications -.-
<acher88> I would not use staging on a real box anyway. Was just seeing how far things got before they broke.
<yofel> well, that's fine, as long as you know what you're doing ^^
<BluesKaj> actually Xenial with plasma 5.4.3 seems quite stable altho there are some missiing functions
<yofel> yeah, same here
<yofel> maxyz_: did you have time to look at the kscreenlocker packaging yet? I'm not sure where to put the translations. I'm thinking about making a -data package and also moving the service data files from the kcm package there
<yofel> now what to do with kdelibs..
<yofel> might as well just update that for now
<BluesKaj> my ethernet connection which used to be eth0 in ifconfig is now enp0s7 ... I didn't change it , what gives?
<yofel> that's the new systemd network interface naming scheme
<yofel> it's supposed to give more predictable names, especially in VM's and stuff
<yofel> BluesKaj: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
<BluesKaj> yofel:  ok thanks 
<BluesKaj> suspected it might be a systemd change 
<BluesKaj> bbl, got other stuff to check
<ahoneybun> and someone just filled a bug against the website
<ahoneybun> I replied
<BluesKaj> Hey ahoneybun
<ahoneybun> hola BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> almost upgraded withe staging-plasma ppa , but yofel advised against it and I'm glad he did ...would have ahd anoher broken Xenial OS on my hands ...I get too adventurous sometimes :-)
<mamarley> I accidentally did that on one of my PCs.  Most everything worked fine after ppa-purging it, but for some reason the screen lock still doesn't work. :/
<BluesKaj> mamarley:  I tried the ppa purge and it kept failing , guess i had the ppa syntax wrong. I researched for the correct command but I couldn't seem to get it right
<acher88> I'll try it in vitualbox, but that is as far as it goes
<clivejo> it was the broken symbols file?
<clivejo> yofel: 
<BluesKaj> and examples of the ppa purge command are poor ones
<clivejo> ah, that was what I was going to do, but wasnt sure if that would fix it
<clivejo> yofel: BTW I tried to build breeze-gtk in one of your pro=plasma chroots, but it wouldnt work
<clivejo> any idea why?
<clivejo> oh xvfb needs a build dependancy
 * clivejo takes note
<yofel> clivejo: wrt kscreen, yes
<clivejo> yofel: what are you working on?
<yofel> nothing right now, I just had lunch
<yofel> lets see how kde4libs did
<clivejo> can I lookat plasma-workspace?
<yofel> ah, stuff built, great
<yofel> sure, go ahead, missing files
<clivejo> yofel: when I use pro=plasma are the frameworks and apps staging ppa's added too?
<yofel> no
<clivejo> I keep getting dependency errors
<soee> so only 2 package left to have 5.52 ? :)
<yofel> the ppa has no deps either
<yofel> did you add the ppa to the chroot?
<clivejo> nope
<yofel> well
<clivejo> I thought that it would be automatic
<yofel> nope
<yofel> well, feel free to implement it if you want
<clivejo> I guess if things where working correctly frameworks would be up to date in the archive already
<BluesKaj> I have a pet peeve about toolbar etc fonts on kate and other apps when used for eding with root permissions. Systemsettings5 with kdesudo will not change any of said fonts. It appears to accept the changes, but upon relaunch nothing changes. I use a large monitor and these default fonts are too small to read 
 * clivejo doesnt keep peeves as pets any more
<clivejo> too much stress
<clivejo> does the KDE Bouncer not store the time and data stamp?
<BluesKaj> for example http://imgur.com/JVxbtQc
<BluesKaj> that's why i like plasma4, no problems like this, whereas this thing has been a problen with 5 from the begining, and looks like it's not getting any attention
<BluesKaj> I despise the overuse of the word functionality , but the lack of it sure fits this case
<clivejo> yofel the file /usr/share/wayland-sessions/plasmawayland.desktop should it go in plasma-workspace-wayland.install?
<marco-parillo> clivejo: I asked that question, and the response is that the bouncer should support it, but client support is iffy. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356917
<ubottu> KDE bug 356917 in general "Can Konversation support server-time" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]
<marco-parillo> https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=130124
<marco-parillo> http://ircv3.net/software/clients.html
<clivejo> does quassel?
<marco-parillo> On the last link, look for the server-time column 
<marco-parillo> No
<marco-parillo> At least not in the table.
<clivejo> well that sucks!
<marco-parillo> So your entire backlog in quassel is timestamped the same, correct?
<clivejo> i moved to konversation
<clivejo> but yes, all the backlog is timestamped when I reconnected my local client
<clivejo> yofel: where do all these locale files for kscreenlocker belong?
<clivejo> usr/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/kscreenlocker_greet.mo
<yofel> clivejo: wayland, yeah, should be fine
<yofel> clivejo: I personally don't agree to the whole kscreenlocker packaging, so not sure right now
<yofel> wanted to wait until maxy replies
<clivejo> others distros are putting them in weird places
<clivejo> kde-l10n-sv and plasma-workspace
<yofel> no, we do NOT ship the wayland config by default
<yofel> hence the speration
<yofel> and we don't patch the l10n files around either
<yofel> a common please would be a -data package
<clivejo> so might need to make a -data package ?
<yofel> but I would like a second opinion on the placement of the service config files, as I don't believe those belong into the kcm package
<yofel> once we've cleared up what files are responsible for what we can decide on the package names
<clivejo> I think thats the last issue in plasma 5.5.2?
<yofel> if the current scheme is fine, and the translation files are fully arch-indep, then we could also just put the translations into the lib package
<yofel> no
<clivejo> those pesky orange ones?
<yofel> there's the lib stuff in discover, a missing dep in kwin, the missing ksnapshot 15.12 package and the moved kconf install directory
<yofel> the kconf stuff is mostly checking whether we actually need to fix something
<yofel> as I don't remember if we have any custom kconf scripts
<clivejo> who would remember?
<clivejo> Jon?>
<yofel> maybe, but probably only the ones he added
<clivejo> yofel: every night KCI messages me saying Ive broken mergers
<yofel> don't ask me about that, I have no idea how that's set up
<clivejo> would you help me fix what I broke?
<yofel> if you point me to a broken merge I can take a look
<clivejo> hummm konservation doesnt seem to have a history
<clivejo> http://kci.pangea.pub/job/merger_kamoso/238/console
<yofel> just run quassel on some scaleway server or so, those are cheap
<clivejo> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/kde-extras/kamoso.git/
<clivejo> do I need a xenial branch?
<yofel> o.O
<yofel> looking at the branches, at least this should've worked:
<yofel>                            unstable -> variant (wily)                           
<yofel> [E] merger: There is no unstable branch!
<BluesKaj> clivejo:  konversation sets up a log in your /home/user 
<clivejo> yes, but quassel I just scrolled back
<yofel> only quassel does that
<BluesKaj> you can setup a scrollback in settings>configure konversation>chat window
<clivejo> Updates were rejected because a pushed branch tip is behind its remote
<clivejo> hint: counterpart.
<yofel> oh, interesting
<BluesKaj> default is only 10 lines, but 99 are available
<BluesKaj> bbbl
<clivejo> I mean all my history
<clivejo> in quassel I could just keep scrolling back
<yofel> clivejo: sorry, I give up. I would need to read merger.rb to figure out what it's actually doing
<yofel> no time for that
<clivejo> and it would keep going
<acher88> dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/plasma-desktop-data_4%3a5.5.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa1_all.deb (--unpack):
<acher88> trying to overwrite '/usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/kcm_device_automounter.mo', which is also in package kde-l10n-engb 4:15.08.2-0ubuntu1
<yofel> would it help if I deny reality right now...
<clivejo> where should mo/po files go?
<yofel> remember me saying that we don't patch out translation stuff just now?
<yofel> I wonder if upstream would kill us if we do it here.................
<clivejo> yeah, but still dont understand what that means exactly
<yofel> well, if they seriously did what above says they did
<clivejo> are we supposed to package them separately?
<yofel> then we have to add breaks/replaces for plasma-desktop-data against *ALL* translation packages
<yofel> no idea, we simply did what upstream did so far after we moved away from rosetta
<yofel> another thing that above error tells me is: we cannot ship plasma 5.5 without apps 15.12
<yofel> we could ship the new translations I guess, but then translations in 15.08 apps are broken
<clivejo> chicken before the egg :P
<ScottK> clivejo: (From #debian-qt-kde): Your kscreen problem is Depends: libkf5screen-dev (>= 4:5.5.1~) while the version in the archive is libkf5screen-dev | 4:5.4.3-0ubuntu1 | xenial/universe 
<clivejo> ScottK: thanks, but I was talking rubbish earlier
<ScottK> OK.
<yofel> ScottK: no, it was a broken symbols file in libscreen, which had 7 as soversion for some reason
<clivejo> it was libscreen package
<yofel> but thanks 
<clivejo> I wanted help with, but I got myself all confused
<ScottK> OK, but the build log did whine about the insufficient version.
<clivejo> yup
<clivejo> there was an issue in the symbols file
<clivejo> but for libscreen
<clivejo> I copied/pasted the wrong buildlog URL
<ScottK> OK.
<clivejo> wandered off and forgot about it for awhile
<clivejo> I have to go now, have a party to go to
<yofel> have fun
<clivejo> Happy New Year to everybody
<soee> http://imgur.com/QqRKlyb
<soee> i did an upgrade to 5.5.2 and frameworks 5.17 ... :)
<soee> there are some glitches but desktop works fine
<BluesKaj> soee:  from the staging-plasma ppa?
<BluesKaj> or did you build it from git?
<soee> BluesKaj: from staging, there were small problems but -f install and forxe overwrite for plasma-dekstop-data helped
 * BluesKaj thinks he'll wait for yofel's recommendation :-)
<soee> +1
<BluesKaj> tried 5.5 on fedora 23, not an impressive OS media -wise but it works ok
<BluesKaj> nothing about fedora made me want to keep it tho
<marco-parillo> Agreed about Fedora. If you HAVE to be on 5.5, I recommend Manjaro
<marco-parillo> Today is supposed to be Alpha 1 (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule), and not that we have anything earth-shattering to report, but it looks as if no other flavor does either (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/).
<ahoneybun> aaron/ irc.snoonet.org
<ahoneybun> opps
<valorie> happy new year, everybody
 * valorie goes off to the cabin
<yofel> Happy new year everyone :)
<mparillo> Happy New Year (in six hours for me), and thanks to everybody.
#kubuntu-devel 2016-01-01
<soee_> happy new year with lots of fun :D
<BluesKaj> Happy New Year folks
<clivejo> yofel: any word back from maxy regarding the problems in plasma5.5.2?
<clivejo> !kamoso
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about kamoso
<clivejo> !info kamoso
<ubottu> kamoso (source: kamoso): tool to take pictures and videos from your webcam. In component universe, is extra. Version 3.0.0-0ubuntu1 (wily), package size 141 kB, installed size 516 kB
<soee_> clivejo: hiho, do we have to wait for 5.5.2 to be finished ?
<clivejo> soee_: yup
<clivejo> Ive took it as far as I can
<clivejo> need upstream to confirm a few things
<clivejo> well upstreams (KDE and Debian)
<soee_> clivejo: so maybe you can upload latest apps ?
<soee_> 15.12.0
<clivejo> what version have we?
<soee_> xenial has 15.08.3
<clivejo> nothing actually specific to xenial
<clivejo> that was just copied over when xenial dev was opened I think
<clivejo> Ill certainly try, but Id need a nod or a wink from yofel or sgclark7
<soee_> well as topic says 15.12.0 are todo, so i think it is ok to strt with them
<soee_> hmm but there is no Xenial on the list: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-kdeapplications
<soee_> it is added automatically or needs to be done manually ?
<clivejo> they will appear when someone stages and uploads them
<clivejo> so a semi-automatic
<soee_> yofel: what do you think ?
<clivejo> I need a Kubuntu member to pause KCI
<soee_> clivejo: why you are no kubuntu member yet ?
<clivejo> nope
<soee_> but why ? :)
<clivejo> you dont want to know!
<soee_> :D
<soee_> clivejo: how do you think, how long it will take to learn packaging for a user who never did it before ?
<clivejo> no idea, depends on your interests and skill sets
<clivejo> the problem is fixing the major stuff and that takes years of experience
<clivejo> I came here to learn how to package Kolab and got interested in packaging KDE stuff
<clivejo> soee_: are you interested in learning?
<clivejo> :( looks like apps have a few problems
<soee_> brb
<soee_> clivejo: what problems apps have ?
<soee_> clivejo: ye i plan to start with packaging for a long time already, never had enough free time to do it
<clivejo> just watching the output and quite a few being moved to manual
<clivejo> Ive messaged yofel on Telegram, no answer there either
<clivejo> I think Ill go to bed early
<clivejo> bad need to sleep
<soee_> hava a good night clivejo
<clivejo> soee_: not gone yet!
<clivejo> 15 in manual so far
<soee_> ah i thought you are off :D
<soee_> just thoughts, i think 2016 will be cool year. Plasma 5 should be finally polished and work just as it should (maybe it will reach KDE4 stability). QT 5.6 LTS should be released. We will have Kubuntu 16.04 LTS :)
<soee_> all i'm missing is probably some good Nvidia drivers that could fix the tearing problem and allow quick gpu switch
<clivejo> oh dear, staging-upload went off the rails
<clivejo> ktnef
<clivejo> New version specified (15.12.0-0ubuntu1) is less than
<clivejo> the current version number (4:15.08.2-0ubuntu1)!  Use -b to force.
<soee_> the leading 4: is autmaticaly added ?
<clivejo> its an epoch
<soee_> clivejo: what is epoch ?
<clivejo> its used to reset a mistake in version numbers
<clivejo> say someone uploaded plasma 15.5.3 as a typo
<clivejo> that package would be installed instead of 5.5.4
<clivejo> up to the point that plasma reached 15.5.4
<clivejo> so we add an epoch
<clivejo> !info ktnef
<ubottu> ktnef (source: kdepim): Viewer for mail attachments using TNEF format. In component universe, is optional. Version 4:15.08.2-0ubuntu1 (wily), package size 75 kB, installed size 301 kB
<clivejo> its got an epoch of 4
<clivejo> needs to be added to the epoch list in packaging-exceptions.json
<clivejo> but Im confused as to why its not there already
<clivejo> must be a new epoch
<soee_> hmm a bit confusing
 * clivejo nods
<clivejo> I find version numbers the hardest to understand
<clivejo> plasma is at 5, apps are at 15
<soee_> also frameworks are @ 5.x
<soee_> i think it would me much better to have apps also @ 5.x
<clivejo> or have year month day
<soee_> it could match frameworks version it uses also, something like 5.17.1 (5 - main version, 17 - frameworks version. 5.17, and 1 - bugfix release)
<clivejo> anyways, I need someone to say yes or no to adding this package to exceptions
<clivejo> so Ill give up for tonight
<clivejo> night night
<soee_> good night
#kubuntu-devel 2016-01-02
<soee> are those valid also for kubuntu: http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/ ?
<lordievader> Good morning.
<clivejo> yofel: ping me when you get a chance
<soee_> hiho
<bshah> hiho
<Graf_Westerholt> Hi bshah
<bshah> clivejo: you know what is branching policy for frameworks repo/
<bshah> I've fix for kdelibs4support (git) not building.. which branch I should put its ffix?
<bshah> [I am talking about packaging]
<clivejo> hi bshah
<clivejo> what is the fix for?  KCI, archive version?
<bshah> kci/mobile CI
<bshah> new build dep to kded5
<clivejo> kubuntu_unstable I think
<bshah> and master branch is for?
<clivejo> debian
<clivejo> its debian's git 
<bshah> so its fine to just make change in kubuntu_unstable?
<clivejo> if the adjustables are to fix a KCI build
<clivejo> adjustments
<bshah> cool
<bshah> I will go ahead with it then
<clivejo> go you have debian git access?
<clivejo> is this the packaging you are talking about?
<clivejo> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/frameworks/kdelibs4support.git/
<clivejo> bshah: I mean debian commit access
<bshah> yeah, I have it
<clivejo> what build-dep are we missing?
<bshah> kded5-dev
<clivejo> !info kded5-dev
<ubottu> kded5-dev (source: kded): Extensible daemon for providing session services. In component universe, is optional. Version 5.15.0-0ubuntu1 (wily), package size 4 kB, installed size 25 kB
<clivejo> does it build in pbuilder with that added?
<bshah> I haven't tested it but that will be fix for sure..
<bshah> mobile.kci.pangea.pub:8080/job/vivid_unstable_frameworks_kdelibs4support_bin_amd64/
<yofel> clivejo: pong, regarding apps: go ahead, but note that I already uploaded kdelibs to plasma as it was needed there (just recheck that the script doesn't mess up)
<yofel> you'll probably need the new frameworks for the apps as well
<yofel> so copy over whatever you need
<clivejo> hi yofel
<bshah> actually, if someone with packaging experience can add build dep it will be very cool.. I am not sure of correct way
<clivejo> BTW are the KCI debian commit hooks turned off?
<yofel> dunno
<clivejo> Changes to packaging dont seem to be triggering rebuilds
<yofel> the neon sync hook crashes, maybe that's the reason
<clivejo> something about fi
<clivejo> I see it popping up a lot
<clivejo> so grab a refresh kubuntu_automation?
<bshah> do I need to update changelog for new build dep in kubuntu_unstable?
<yofel> I don't think anything changed in KA
<yofel> if someone needs to be updated for apps, you have to do it
<yofel> *something
<yofel> actually, I'm certain there are updates needed
<yofel> there's some special casing for kdepim and kdelibs
<yofel> (the kdepim stuff is obsolete I think)
<clivejo> there are a lot moved to manual
<yofel> (but still active)
<clivejo> so far until the script crashed -> https://paste.kde.org/po2hf3yzu
<yofel> crashed?
<yofel> stacktrace please
<yofel> that should never happen
<clivejo> ok Ive added ktnef to packaging-exceptions
<clivejo> yeah, it crashed last night on ktnef
<yofel> still should never happen
<clivejo> I run a upload-staging
<clivejo> got as far as ktnef and it crashed
<yofel> if it cannot do something on a package, said package should always be moved to manual with an appropriate message
<clivejo> I dont have the trace
<yofel> please keep that the next time
<clivejo> will do
<yofel> now that the script doesn't do push the changes anymore, this isn't as important as before
<yofel> but it still should not crash
<clivejo> is it best to clear out my working directory?
<yofel> yes
<clivejo> before starting another upload-staging
<yofel> the script has no concept of continuing
<bshah> yofel: clivejo: is it correct way to do this? http://ix.io/n6P
<yofel> bshah: do not change the version
<yofel> otherwise yes
<clivejo> is that definitely the kubuntu_unstable branch?
<clivejo> yofel: those in manual it was complaining about merge issues
<clivejo> should we try fixing those before I rerun staging?
<yofel> I don't think before or after makes a difference, so do what you prefer
<yofel> did you update the app list?
<clivejo> no
<yofel> please do that, or at least check that there's no change
<clivejo> so far I just added ktnef to list of packages with epochs
<clivejo> I use package-name-list script to update it?
<yofel> yes, see readme
<clivejo> which readme? :P
<clivejo> this one https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/+git/kubuntu-automation/tree/README
<yofel> yes, that's the one I mean when I say readme
<yofel> we don't have any other readme
<clivejo> doesnt say much about updating package lists
<yofel> it doesn't need to say more
<yofel> really, that file is meant to show the workflow, not explain much about it
<yofel> if you think that it's too short, then maybe move that to a README.workflow and add a new README that actually explains things
<clivejo> :p Im messing
<clivejo> https://paste.kde.org/p98eyrdun
<clivejo> thats the diff
<clivejo> should it be removing dolphin?
<yofel> that's not what I get
<bshah> done : http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/frameworks/kdelibs4support.git/commit/?h=kubuntu_unstable
<yofel> what did you run?
<bshah> if I messed up something, let me know
<clivejo> yofel: package-name-list -d xenial -r applications -v 15.12.0
<yofel> that looks right, but my diff is different o.O
<clivejo> :/
<yofel> this is what you should get: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14368658/
<yofel> does git diff say the same for you?
<clivejo> oh that command didnt finsh
<clivejo> its hung
<yofel> the script does weird stuff at the end actually...
<clivejo> the konsole window has hung!
<clivejo> ctl -c and not cant type anything
<yofel> and running git diff on a file that you just wrote to without closing to will probably give random results
<yofel> does something happen if you press enter?
<clivejo> nothing
<clivejo> had to kill konsole
<yofel> weird, here it just hid the keyboard import
<yofel> *input
<yofel> but yeah, that script is buggy
<clivejo> ok git diff is showing what you posted
<clivejo> will I commit and push that?
<clivejo> or did you do it?
<yofel> you do it
<clivejo> ok pushed
<clivejo> has that been done for plasma and frameworks?
<clivejo> Im re-running the staging-upload script
<yofel> I'm pretty sure I told you guys multiple times to do that for both
<yofel> so I believe yes
<clivejo> akonadi - 
<clivejo> git does not match archive
<clivejo> missing lines: akonadi (4:15.08.2-0ubuntu3) xenial; urgency=medium
<clivejo> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/a/akonadi/akonadi_15.08.2-0ubuntu3/changelog
<clivejo> Rebuild against Qt 5.5.1.
<clivejo> is this something we just have to fix ourselves?
<yofel> yes
<clivejo> can I work on that whilst staging script is doing its magic?
<yofel> yep
<yofel> oh, launchpad actually has some basic git push hook support
<yofel> so we might actually be able to keep the CI running if we moved to launchpad
<clivejo> could we use that to sync back to debian git?
<yofel> dunno, I would stop using debian git 
<clivejo> really?
<yofel> seeing how ovidiu was completely unable to get any work done, we need to cut down our service dependencies a lot
<yofel> that includes not requiring pkg-kde membership to do work
<yofel> as well as not requiring kubuntu membership for the CI
<clivejo> but dont we get a lot of support from the debian guys and vice versa?
<yofel> not really, debian only cares about debian. maxy was nice enough in the past to use some of our work and add some compatibility stuff to make merging easier
<yofel> but now with the CI branches, they really only care about kubuntu_unstable
<yofel> the release branches are specific to us
<yofel> and as long as both of us use git, accessing our branches would just require adding another remote
<yofel> and considering how much discussion has been going on in the debian team about how people create kubuntu branches in repositories that they shouldn't touch
<yofel> I think they would be rather glad that we move away
<yofel> for the CI branches I'm not sure what we should do, that should probably be discussed with the neon folks. Maybe they can just take over the branch maintenance for those
<yofel> or not, if we keep our own CI system running
 * yofel wonders if we'll get git merge requests on LP this year
<clivejo> for me, I dont like the idea of working away from debian team
<yofel> let me ask you something: how many commits have you made on debian branches last year? How many commits on our branches do you know were done by debian people?
<clivejo> none that I know of, because I dont want to mess up their work
<bshah> okay so kdelibs4support fixed
<clivejo> but I have refered to maxy's work to figure out a few problems
<yofel> so again: How useful is it to have our branches on alioth?
<yofel> you can still do that
<yofel> just add a remote for the debian repo in your local clone
<yofel> that's the great thing about git
<yofel> I certainly don't want to go back to bzr, which was one of the main reasons why we moved to debian
<clivejo> and if I ever get good at packaging I can maybe start to help in debian 
<yofel> sure, you're welcome to do that and you can learn a lot from them.
<yofel> I'm not saying to cut the team ties
<yofel> but the git repositories are a technical thing, and I think that's better to have back in our own namespace
<clivejo> but I do agree in ovidiu-florin case a LP git would be a lot easy to get up and going for new packagers
<yofel> I actually forgot something there
<yofel> he could've done his work just fine with git. He would've just had to push his branches under his private namespace on LP, and someone would've had to merge all the branches and push the changes
<yofel> that's what all new people would still have to do in the very beginning
<yofel> but we typically grant packagers membership pretty quickly, and debian is rather reluctant to add people to their team
<yofel> which is the problem
<clivejo> I can see their reluctance! Its a bit scarey for newbie
<yofel> it's better these days. Back when pino was around a lot, every interaction with him made me not want to talk in the channel for a while (he's a great guy in person, just very harsh on IRC)
<yofel> probably still the reason why I don't care about debian much
<clivejo> you are quite scary yourself!
<yofel> possibly
<clivejo> unless I watched you on a hangout
<clivejo> and realised your german :P
<yofel> I try not to be, but I'm not that great with words either, so I try to keep things short without much... 
<yofel> softening? I guess?
<clivejo> my typing is bad today
<clivejo> Ive hit a snag with these manual packages
<clivejo> I have a folder manual/kde4libs
<clivejo> but nothing in it
<yofel> that I haven't enjoyed working on kubuntu for a while now doesn't help either. If anything I still enjoy talking to you on IRC and answering questions.
<clivejo> awwww it should be fun yofel
<clivejo> I guess its stressful at the top :)
<yofel> yes it should, considering that I'm spending my free time on it. Fact is, most of the time it's not.
<clivejo> being release manager and all
<yofel> if the folder is completely empty, then something went totally wrong (e.g. the tarball download from depot failed)
<yofel> at least I think that's the first step
<clivejo> yeah, usually it has a git folder
<yofel> when I started here, things were a lot easier. We had maybe 30 sources that we packaged completely by hand, but we got things done. Then things started getting splitted up, but after Felix wrote the first edition of KA, we managed.
<clivejo> there is a commit made 48hours ago
<clivejo> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/applications/kde4libs.git/
<yofel> Today we have a mentally compley process spanning 3 different releases, several PPAs to work on those and a very complex git workflow where touching one thing usually means breaking 3 other places
<yofel> that's not my definition of "fun"
<clivejo> what drives you?
<yofel> aah, right. kdelibs. Just copy the package from the plasma PPA
<yofel> I already did that 2 days ago (plasma needed it)
<clivejo> I dont understand#
<yofel> well, you don't need to do anything for kdelibs
<clivejo> when why is it there?!?
<clivejo> then
<yofel> because it belongs to applications
<yofel> it's just that I already updated it
<clivejo> then why is it in plasma?
<clivejo> oh
<yofel> because plasma depends on kdelibs
<clivejo> got ya
<clivejo> how do I copy it?
<clivejo> LP web interface?
<yofel> for one package just use that, yes
<yofel> otherwise, ubuntu-archive-tools has a script to do single package copies, and kubuntu-dev-tools has one for mass copies
<clivejo> rebuild or just copy existing bins?
<yofel> if I have to answer the driving question: I still enjoy hanging around with you guys, and I do still enjoy working on the scripts and occasional fixes. But I have 0 motivation to work on the packaging lately
<yofel> copy existing should be fine
<yofel> it really just depends on archive packages, nothing from the PPAs
<clivejo> ok request is processing
<clivejo> kde-baseapps is empty too
<yofel> if I work on packaging, it's usually a "damnit, I'm the only one around that knows how to do this" situation
<clivejo> shouldnt be so clever then :P
<yofel> you'll have to wait for the script to tell you what went wrong then
<yofel> doesn't change the fact that you'll have to do everything by hand though
<clivejo> the script is way past that point
<clivejo> does the script keep a log?
<yofel> it does tell you in the summary at the end again
<yofel> no
<clivejo> its currently on kopete
<yofel> actually, do you want to implement that? that would be rather useful ^^
<clivejo> it would indeed be useful
<yofel> people tend to just close the shell once the script finishes...
<clivejo> could it be put in each folder?
<yofel> ofc. you would just write the log file in the execption handling block
<yofel> but I would still add a main log file with a copy of the summary at the end
<clivejo> maybe a trollo item?
<yofel> feel free to add one
<clivejo> trello
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<clivejo> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey clivejo
<clivejo> at kstars so about 3/4 way through I think
<clivejo> and the following manual ones that need fixed
<clivejo> kde-baseapps  kde-l10n  kdenetwork-filesharing  kdepim  kdepimlibs  kdepim-runtime
 * clivejo doesnt like the pim packages
<clivejo> g2g for a bit
<BluesKaj> I don't use the main pim packages like kmail and kontact
<clivejo> they still part of KDE Apps!
<BluesKaj> clivejo:  yes but I can remove them without losing the whole desktop like removing akonadi does
<ari-tczew> hello all
<ari-tczew> I've noticed there are 2 binary packages duplicated in the archive
<ari-tczew> source: kwallet => binary kwalletmanager
<ari-tczew> source: kwalletmanager => binary kwalletmanager
<ari-tczew> however, binary in the source kwalletmanager doesn't break the old kwalletmanager (>> 4:4.12.2-0ubuntu1) in debian/control
<ari-tczew> does someone from you consider fix that one?
<bshah> breeze kf5 depends on kdelibs5-dev? :O
<bshah> hmm, right
<clivejo> yofel: script crashed again
<clivejo> but looks like a timeout for git#
<clivejo> https://paste.kde.org/psswac09f
<clivejo> Ill upload what its done and do the rest by hand
<clivejo> yofel: would you pause KCI please?
<clivejo> Ill git-push-all while Im uploading the staging PPA
<clivejo> I have to go for a few hours
<clivejo> should be back about 22:00UTC
<clivejo> yofel: I forgot to bump the release to xenial while doing the apps15.12.0 push.  Ive just done it, will weegie update itself?  http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/applications/
<clivejo> right, Im gone, bye for now
<soee> there is some typo on status page http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/applications/ - it says 15.12 for Wily but it contains 15.08.3 :)
<soee> is it any useful for us: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-New-Tool-CME ?
<valorie> wow, lovely to see so much green now
<valorie> happy 2016 everyone!
<clivejo> hi valorie
<clivejo> did you have a good one?
<clivejo> yofel: ping
<valorie> so fun! most fun party for years
<valorie> also, I didn't drink at all (except water) last night, which probably accounts for my good mood today!
<valorie> those who indulged last night had fun, but were a bit quiet this morning
<valorie> :-)
<clivejo> valorie: are you a kubuntu member on LP?
<valorie> yes
<clivejo> ever used kci before?
<valorie> no
<valorie> it's sort of wasted on non-techy me
<clivejo> would you try it for me?
<valorie> although if we get our packaging docs all spiffy I might learn!
<clivejo> if you go here - http://kci.pangea.pub/
<valorie> sure, if you tell me exactly what to do
<valorie> done
<clivejo> log in, top right with your launchpad details
<clivejo> will take you to ubuntu one
<valorie> logged in
<clivejo> the go here
<clivejo> http://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_pause_integration/
<clivejo> and click on the build now button
<valorie> "Cannot create build. Maybe you need to log in or have the 'build' permission.
<valorie> "
<clivejo> are you logged in?
<valorie> yes
<clivejo> you mustnt have permssions
<valorie> so that must need packager status
<clivejo> thats what mine says
<valorie> which I do not have
<clivejo> no problem, worth a try!
<clivejo> anyone else here a member could pause it for a bit for me?
 * valorie wishes clivejo would just become a Kubuntu Member in spite of the problems
<clivejo> how?
<valorie> make your wiki page, call a meeting, and have us vote on your acceptance
<valorie> https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu/Membership
<clivejo> dont you have weird and painful Initiation Rites?
<valorie> yes, making a wiki page like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ValorieZimmerman
<valorie> wow, so old
<valorie> hahaha, myspace profile
<valorie> clivejo: the painful one is Kubuntu Developer
<clivejo> you have a 5 years history!
<valorie> where you are asked the most obscure crap possible
<clivejo> oh no
<valorie> clivejo: I did add new stuff when running for KC
<clivejo> by scarey yofel?
<valorie> yofel is indeed scary
<valorie> so much tucked into that brain!
<clivejo> you have just got two new testimonials!
<valorie> NICE
<clivejo> LOL
<clivejo> Im rubbish at writing about myself
<soee> clivejo: [20:20] <soee> is it any useful for us: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-New-Tool-CME ?
<valorie> clivejo: just start a list of stuff, and add to it as you remember things
<valorie> launchpad has a list somewhere of contributions
<clivejo> soee: never seen it or used it
<clivejo> soee: I made a boo boo
<clivejo> I forgot to update the distribution to xenial while bumping the release to 15.12.0
<clivejo> they should apear here - http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/applications/build_status_15.12.0_xenial.html
 * clivejo pokes valorie
<clivejo> check your messages :P
<yofel> hm?
<clivejo> yofel !!!
<clivejo> pls pls pls paws KCI
 * yofel puts up a "Beware of scary person" sign and goes back into hiding
 * clivejo pushes
<clivejo> yofel: push done
<valorie> weeee
<clivejo> I have six to do manually due to the script crashing at spectacle
<yofel> please note all stack traces down
<yofel> the script should never crash
<clivejo> it was a git timeout
<clivejo> could there be code added to recover nicely from that?
<clivejo> certain number of retries and then gracefully display a nice error message?
<clivejo> yofel: can you restart KCI please
#kubuntu-devel 2016-01-03
<clivejo> yofel: ah, thats why the script falled down the hole
<clivejo> spectacle-15.12.0.tar.xz must be new?
<yofel> it is new
<clivejo> git threw an error that it didnt exist and the script took a hissy fit and feel over!
<clivejo> are you about tomorrow?
<yofel> probably sometime
<clivejo> would you teach me how to make a new git archive for it?
<yofel> if I remember, sure..
<yofel> what is spectacle?
 * clivejo shrugs
<clivejo> a pair of glasses?
<yofel> might be relevant in case it's split off from something existing
<yofel> hehe
<yofel> xeyes for wayland? :P
<clivejo> spooky
<clivejo> have you started a wayland session yet?
<yofel> not a native one
<clivejo> kdepim is having trouble being stuffed into the packaging due to fuzz in kubuntu_debianize_akregator_default.diff
<valorie> spectacle is replacing kscreenshot or whatever it was called
<yofel> aaaaah, ksnapshot
 * clivejo looks puzzled
<valorie> exactly
<clivejo> who thinks of these names!
 * yofel will agree here
<valorie> the devel was trying to get it ready for wayland, and said screw it, I'm starting over (mostly)
<yofel> ksnapshot was self-explenatory, spectacle not really..
<valorie> there was a huge bikeshed over the name
<valorie> snapshot was taken, nobody wanted a "k" name
<valorie> etc etc.
<yofel> why rename at all..
<valorie> because the old one had to remain in the repos for those still using KDE4 I guess
<valorie> I lost track when it got complicated
<valorie> nice, it's 4:30pm and not dark yet
<valorie> ok, more laundry to take care of, then dinner, than my dad....
<valorie> see y'all laterz
<clivejo> all the best valorie
<clivejo> good night all
<valorie> weeeee!
<bshah> hmmm c69dc885 in kwin packaging breaks armhf build..
<lordievader> Good morning.
<clivejo> kci is doing well :)
<bshah> btw, bshah | hmmm c69dc885 in kwin packaging breaks armhf build.. 
<bshah> 07:25:54 dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libkwinglutils.so.7 needed by debian/kwin-common/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libkwin.so.5.5.90 (ELF format: 'elf32-littlearm-hfabi'; RPATH: '')
<bshah> (kubuntu_unstable branch)
<bshah> clivejo: since it is your commit.. ^ any idea?
<bshah> clivejo: can I add armhf in the architectures to build libkwinglutils? is there any reason armhf was removed from there?
<soee> hiho
<soee> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBPGjlP6Wd8
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<soee> hiho BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey soee
* soee changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Friendly computing | Plasma 5.5.2: W/TODO X/WIP, Apps 15.08.3: W/TEST, Apps 15.12.0: X/WIP, FW 5.17: W/TODO X/WIP | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | No, plasma 5.5 isn't packaged yet
<bshah> okay I assume that change to kwin packaging was bad merge
<bshah> changing it to Architecture: any fixes it
<soee> bshah: could you please take a screenshot of task manager and upload somewhere ? i would like to compare iy what i have in 5.2.2 here on Kubuntu
<soee> *whole panel would be nice
<bshah> soee: note: I am not on plasma 5.5 but 5.4
<bshah> it is kind of very old git revision
<soee> ah, ok :-)
<bshah> so you want screenshot still?
<bshah> ;)
<soee> nah, i just wonder if this highlights and and stroke on each task manger element was introduced in 5.5 or it is some bug for me here as we have not yet fully packaged Plasma 5.5.2
<mparillo> Is task manager the same as System Activity?
<soee> mparillo: ?
<soee> Task Manager is the one that shows icons for running apps
<soee> the one you have by default on your panel
<mparillo> Regarding the screen shot request. When I do a ctrl esc I get a list of running tasks. Ahh the panel showing open windows?
<BluesKaj> mparillo:  the task manager shows the applications in use in the panel
<mparillo> And System Activity (Ctrl Esc) is more like a graphical top?
<mparillo> This is what it looks like on Plasma 5.5.2 for me. http://imgur.com/Um7d7bS
<BluesKaj> mparillo:  did you use the staging plasma-ppa to install 5.5.2?
<mparillo> No, I simply dual-booted to Manjaro
<BluesKaj> ok mparillo I wondeed about the strange looking K launcher :-)
<soee_> mparillo: i tested last days Manjaro and KaOS and Kubuntu is much better :D
<BluesKaj> I tried plasma 5.5.2 from the staging plasma-ppa, but it crashed the fesktop several times even after a broken dependency workaround, so I just ppa-purged it 
<BluesKaj> desktop
<soee_> BluesKaj: true, Plasma crashes and restarts also when checking updates
<BluesKaj> definitely not ready yet
<mparillo> I never tried KaOS, and I agree. I distrohop, and I have tried the Fedora, OpenSUSE, and Debian spins, and Kubuntu is much better. Netrunner is kinda wierd, and if I wanted to stay on Plasma 4, I prefer 14.04 to Linux Mint. Still, I wanted to try Plasma 5.5.2
<soee_> BluesKaj: but the problems are because of our packaging isn't finishes yet
<soee_> there are some problems with effects, task manager highlights etc. 
<soee_> also systray icons get some changes - some have a bit different style than other
<BluesKaj> yes i tried fedora 23 with plasma 5.5.2 , it wasn't anything special and the fedora 23 media capapbilities is very limited 
<soee_> but ..
<mparillo> For me, Fedora is easily the slowest of the KDE spins.
<soee_> each of those distros have some nice features like some extended system settings, others updates manager etc.
<soee_> if we could make a mix of all them into one product, it could be cool :D
<BluesKaj> fedora's dnf package management system seems very solid tho, almost professional in it;s detail about what's happening during updates, upgrades, and installs etc
<BluesKaj> no vlc in it's repos was disappointing 
<soee_> ;o
<BluesKaj> what distro leaves out one of best most comprehensive media players available . I don't get it
<mparillo> My guess: Patent fears.
<BluesKaj> for an open source player ?
<BluesKaj> perhaps a dispute with redhat's entrerprise activities
<mparillo> I believe the player supports patent-encumbered codecs.
<soee_> btw. this tusday Plasma 5.5.3 should be released
<BluesKaj> well , whatever the problem is I won't be usin a distro without the kind of media settings I need for my HTPC which also happens to be my testing pc.
<BluesKaj> soee_:  yeah, but for which distros ?
<soee_> for all :) 
<BluesKaj> I miss my old compaq/HP pc, but the mobo died. I tried resurrecting it without much luck, but it'll be 10yrs old in a couple of months
<BluesKaj> it used to be my test platform, so to speak
<clivejo> bshah: Are you sure it was my commit?
<bshah> commit c69dc885329b0cd2b1434d7416e9130da3880d6e
<bshah> Author: Clive Johnston <clivejo@aol.com>
<clivejo> whats the package name please?
<bshah> kwin
<bshah> but it seems that was older commit, git history did some crazy thing
<clivejo> oh that package
<clivejo> this package was a problem one
<bshah> I've corrected it to Architecture: any currently and builds fine on armhf currently
<clivejo> bshah: is that one of your versions in the archive?
<bshah> hmm?
<clivejo> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/k/kwin/kwin_5.4.3-0ubuntu4/changelog
<bshah> didn't get what you mean?
<clivejo> basically two ubuntu devs uploaded two versions to the archive, and sgclark made some changes in the debian git
<clivejo> I had trouble merging the two
<bshah> yep.. and then reverting merge commit went horribly wrong
<bshah> (it seems)
<clivejo> well firstly I just took what was in the archive as that is the important bit
<clivejo> but that overwrote the work sgclark had done
<clivejo> so I had to try and merge them as best as I could
<clivejo> fancy helping me fix it?
<bshah> so I guess my last change to kubuntu_unstable is fine now?
<bshah> it fixed build for me
<clivejo> I dont think I touched unstable
<bshah> see : http://mobile.kci.pangea.pub:8080/job/vivid_unstable_plasma_kwin_bin_armhf/ build #8 vs #9
<clivejo> I was trying to get the kubuntu_xenial_archive synced 
<clivejo> maybe KCI merged the two and fell over?
<bshah> seems so..
<bshah> (I've no idea how kci functions)
<clivejo> then we need to fix unstable
<bshah> I guess in currently unstable is working and in good state
<bshah> versions and/or packaging seems to be good
<clivejo> Im a bit confused as to what sgclark was doing
<clivejo> is it libkwinglutils6 or libkwinglutils7?
<clivejo> she seems to have decremented it back to 6 after the debian merge
<bshah> it is libkwinglutils7
<clivejo> bshah: do you know where the .mo files are supported to go?
<bshah> clivejo: they are translations, so I -i10n package?
<clivejo> thats what I thought
<clivejo> I guess they should go into not-installed for now?
<bshah> no clue, sorry
<clivejo> !info spectacle
<ubottu> spectacle (source: spectacle): RPM Spec file generator and management tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.25-1 (wily), package size 64 kB, installed size 496 kB
<clivejo> we have a name clash with http://download.kde.org/stable/applications/15.12.0/src/spectacle-15.12.0.tar.xz
<bshah> oo ops
<clivejo> speKtaKle?
<mparillo> clivejo: I like it.
<saigkill> Hello team. I asked on the list, if you need a new helper for packagig or testing. Valerie proposed me to access that channel and ask there. Maybe anyone like to introduce me, if help is needed?
<BluesKaj> saigkill:  looks like you already introduced yourself, but today seems like a slow day here so perhaps when more devs are here and active would be another good time to as well
<saigkill> Sounds good :-)
<valorie> saigkill: good to see you here
 * clivejo waves at valorie
<valorie> o/
<valorie> it was snowing here earlier
<valorie> lovely while it lasted
<clivejo> cold?
<valorie> not cold enough to stick around
<valorie> i talked to ovidiu-florin via telegram as I was going to bed
<clivejo> how is he?
<valorie> the funeral is over and he's getting lots of hugs, so recovering
<valorie> he said he'll be back soon
<clivejo> he in a different place?
<valorie> I don't think so
<valorie> maybe was at his family home?
<valorie> not sure
<yofel> good to hear from him at least.
<valorie> yes
<clivejo> cd klickety
 * clivejo growls
<yofel> ^^
<valorie> lol
<clivejo> dont laugh at me!
<clivejo> yofel: autotest is failing in step, build log extract is here --> https://paste.kde.org/pye4map2r
<clivejo> how do we fix that?
<yofel> urgh, that looks like something Mirv_ was fixing somewhere a while ago I think?
<clivejo> is there a patch, or do upstream have to sort it?
<yofel> we probably have a patch, once we remember where it is..
<yofel> I remember seeing that in the build failures for landing qt5.5
<yofel> should eventually be fixed upstream though
<clivejo> should we just disable autotests for the time being?
<clivejo> or is it fine to leave as it is?
<valorie> or better, who do we ask about the patch?
<yofel> looks like marble has the patch I remembered
<yofel> looks like there they simply changed the double comparison to int
<clivejo> is it a floating point number?
<yofel> well yes, your test failure is a rounding error in a float comparison
<yofel> I wonder what changed in qt5.5 that's causing these though
<yofel> FWIW, the patch is part of 4:15.08.2-0ubuntu3 in xenial, but not in git
<yofel> (marble)
<clivejo> !info spectacle
<ubottu> spectacle (source: spectacle): RPM Spec file generator and management tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.25-1 (wily), package size 64 kB, installed size 496 kB
<clivejo> yofel: we have a naming conflict
<yofel> I read it yesterday
<yofel> can't really decide what to rename it to though :/
<yofel> maybe kspectacle just to be evil
<clivejo> debian guys are talking about renaming the current one
<clivejo> to spectacle-rpm
<yofel> that would certainly be better
<yofel> but I thought they really hated to do that because it messes up the dak and debian BTS history?
<clivejo> or we could call it speKtaKle ?
<clivejo> just to really confuse people
<yofel> that's a good one as well
<clivejo> or get upstream to stay with ksnapshot
<clivejo> which is a good name
<valorie> ksnapshot is unmaintained
<valorie> oddly enough, the name collision was pointed out in the massive bikeshedding over the name
<valorie> perhaps missed in the thunderous noise
<yofel> thinking about it, I wonder what fedora did
<clivejo> yofel: Im looking at the patches in marble
<clivejo> there is one kubuntu_disable-MarbleRunnerManagerTest.diff
<clivejo> is that how to do it?
<yofel> I mean Fix_a_failed_test_in_TestGeoDataWriter.patch
<clivejo> I dont see that one
<yofel> also check if upstream git already has a fix
<yofel> [00:41:44] <yofel> FWIW, the patch is part of 4:15.08.2-0ubuntu3 in xenial, but not in git
<clivejo> Im looking in the archive version
<yofel> what exact version?
<clivejo> oh wait, thats wily
<yofel> ^^
