#edubuntu 2006-08-07
<Burgundavia> pygi: pong
<pygi> Burgundavia, you have a sec?
<pygi> or shall we talk later today?
<Burgundavia> now works
<pygi> oki, so students have less then to weeks to finish their applications...
<pygi> do we hear from everyone? do we have status report and usable code from everyone?
<Burgundavia> I have not heard from anselmo or your student
<Burgundavia> amaranth and evan have stuff in the repo
<Burgundavia> ajmitch is apparently doing well
<pygi> anselmo, neither have I
<pygi> I hear from all my students
<Burgundavia> apparently dholbach has seen code
<pygi> kinda, one isnt responsive
<pygi> hm, right , other students?
<pygi> jbailey's student?
<Burgundavia> no idea, I have heard nothing
<pygi> will try to catch jbailey tommorow
<pygi> oki, next?
<pygi> Riddell's students?
<Burgundavia> not heard anything
<Burgundavia> henrik's sok is apparently proceding
<pygi> uh, mvo I'll poke him tommorow
<Burgundavia> oh, the edubuntu study thing is going
<pygi> so for now, needs poking: riddell, jbailey, mvo
<pygi> yup, I know that, Ryan is doing great work
<pygi> Henrik needs poking for his two students
<pygi> vuntz also
<pygi> ssflaw
<pygi> and rob holand
<pygi> oki, so I'll poke jbailey, mvo and riddell tommorow
<pygi> could you handle the rest?
<Burgundavia> could you do it? I am going to be insanely busy the next few days
<pygi> hm, so will I, but I can try,ok
<ajmitch> hi
<Signifer> hey
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: I may be doing ok, but I got called up for jury service this week
<ajmitch> which sucks somewhat
<pygi> Burgundavia, will do then ^_^
<pygi> night all :)
<Burgundavia> night
<bimberi> j #kubuntu
<bimberi> argh :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<cbx33> hey Yagisan_ 
<cbx33> hi RichEd 
<Yagisan> G'day cbx33 
<cbx33> hi Yagisan howz it going
<Yagisan> busy. Had some nice work yesterday
<Yagisan> :)
<cbx33> yeh?
<Yagisan> cbx33, yes. Had to fix a compromised Windows box
<cbx33> ooooh cool
<cbx33> I've done that before
<cbx33> someone had installed an smtp server on there
<Yagisan> client was very happy. I drop off an Ubuntu CD for him to try when I'm next there
<cbx33> was sending tonnes of spam
<cbx33> Yagisan, ahahahah
<cbx33> RichEd, any outcome yet?
<RichEd> hello
<RichEd> hi cbx33 ... 
<RichEd> yes, decision, but unfortunately not in support :(
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> Right I want to make an apology for not getting the meeting minutes done of late
<cbx33> I think I have missed two weeks
<RichEd> the policy at this stage is that Canonical will support groups who have a stand, and want to promote Edubuntu
<cbx33> I can see not why it was always so difficult for JaneW to keep up
<cbx33> s/not/now
<RichEd> but it is not commercially possible to pay for stands ... with one exception
<cbx33> RichEd, yeh, that's fine
<cbx33> I knew that would be the answer anyway so I'm not supprised
<RichEd> if there is an IT in education conference, where various Linux flavours are competing for prominence, Edubuntu should consider representation
<RichEd> re minutes, not significant if you can catch up
<Laser_away> roughly how much does a stand cost? I have no idea
<cbx33> Laser_away, a lot
<cbx33> $900 per square metre
<RichEd> On the conference note, following my discussions with Mark, I'll share later this week where we stand, and what the targets are for the next 12 months.
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<cbx33> ok RichEd 
<cbx33> what about the other stuff like edubuntu packs
<Laser_away> cbx33: wow!!
<cbx33> Laser_away, yup
<RichEd> In brief, at this stage, we are a "cost expense to canonical" and need to move towards self-sufficiency (cost vs income).
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> so basically a no go on pretty much everything
<RichEd> There are some set steps to acheiving this, and the order of execution & promotion is important.
<RichEd> No, that was in refefernce to my above thread !
<RichEd> Packs & support, yes. T-Shirts, disks, stickers. Case studies on the way.
<cbx33> ah right cool
<jsgotangco> yay
<jsgotangco> community booths would be hot with those
<RichEd> So we can assist other people already with a promotion vehicle. 
<cbx33> http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/06/another-powerbook-violently-explodes/
<Laser_away> RichEd: does Canonical sell commercial support for Edubuntu?
<RichEd> Any event, conference or promotion or school-open-day ... can all request support.
<jsgotangco> Laser_away: sure
<RichEd> Laser_away: not yet ... there has been no call (for desktop)
<jsgotangco> its still Ubuntu
<RichEd> But is is an area that can be explored ... where it makes sense.
<Laser_away> RichEd: you need to get Edubuntu into universities with lots of grant money ;-)
<jsgotangco> edubuntu classroom server support seems to have potential
<RichEd> e.g. If an Education department standardises on Edubuntu desktop ... they may want support
<RichEd> e.g. If an Education department standardises on Edubuntu servers  ... they may want support
<RichEd> but 1 server in one classroom is probably not a proposition from either side
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> RichEd: hey!
* RichEd will be busy for a while ... i'll be here ... but not too attentive
<jsgotangco> sure sure
<jsgotangco> i made a 30 page slide on Edubuntu
* Laser_away goes back away ;-)
<jsgotangco> its very very basic
<highvoltage> good mornign everyone
<RichEd> 'lo hi'
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> locate ogra
<pygi> *database non-existant*
<RichEd> hi ... anyone seen ogra or rodarvus around lately ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: saw today's wikipedia featured article?
<RichEd> not yet ... wossit about ?
<RichEd> highvoltage: you talkin' about chippy & shabby & zoomie ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: hehe, yes
<RichEd> a sorry state of affairs ... or to be accurate a sorry affair of the state ")
<RichEd> i see ubuntu was a featured article recently ... pity we caught a saturday when people weren't browsing at work
<RichEd> hi ogra :)
<highvoltage> hey ogra 
<ogra> hey
<highvoltage> ogra: can I specify another NFS root than /opt/ltsp/i386 in the tftpboot kernel line? do you know if I can use root=/opt/ltsp/other?
<RichEd> i'll chat to you a bit later ogra ... we may need to set up a short meeting tomorrow with rodarvus to go through some things.
<ogra> you can specify anything you like in your dhcpd.conf
<ogra> RichEd, fine with me :)
<RichEd> ogra:  when we see rodarvus popping his head in, we can discuss a time ... i'll need to send an agenda to you before hand
<ogra> highvoltage, i can specify different chroots for i386 and powerpc ... but there is no easy way to distinguish between amd64 and i386 on dhcp level
<RichEd> but on a personal note, hope all is well with your new accomodation, and that you are settled & comfortable (in all aspects)
<ogra> well, i'm painting the new office alongside my workday :) but its all fine
<ogra> did a lot of work on local device support over the weekend ...
<RichEd> watch out for those paint fumes in confinmed spaces ... can make your computer screen go a bit fuzzy & woozy after prolonged exposure
<RichEd> (unless you like that sort if thing ... then breathe deeply)
<RichEd> of <- if
<ogra> i'm a strong smoker, the tar will prevent the poison from entering my loungs ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: aah, i should've known. took a sinus pill this morning now my head is screwed up
<ogra> ouch
<highvoltage> RichEd: getting of and if confused can be dangerous with some commands ;)
<Chipzz> ogra: what you *could* do is look at the mac address (different mother boards -> probably different chipsets), but that would require a shitload of seperate work since dhcpd doesn't allow wildcards in the MAC's I think
<ogra> yep
<Chipzz> different chipsets -> different MAC chipset -> different prefix in MAC address
<ogra> but many people do that for their lts.conf already, so that would only be a lot of copy paste work :)
<Chipzz> oh and btw: ltsp-client sucks monkey balls
<ogra> you can also hack stuff into dhcp like verdor strings etc if you use a rom-o-matic image... but that will not work with plain PXE ...
<ogra> Chipzz, oh, why ? it does what it should ...
<Chipzz> I ended up just dpkg -P 'ing it, and brewing my own shit
<ogra> in fact its only a single initscript and a bunch of dependencys
<Chipzz> ogra: startx doesn't do what you think it should do; startx is supposed to run xinit, but instead launches X -query
<Chipzz> also, the arguments for the syntax is not what you'ld expect
<ogra> its the documented ltsp syntax ...
<Chipzz> second, I get no keyboard input in X using the startx method
<ogra> would be news to me that it differs
<Chipzz> ogra: startx on command-line -> .xinitrc ; startx in ltsp -> X -query
<ogra> i didnt do the startx implementation though ... debian is the only one who userd it so far
<Chipzz> that's just confusing and retarded
<ogra> then lets fi it in edgy ;) you are the first ubuntu user playing with it afaik :)
<ogra> s/fi/fix/
<Chipzz> startx -- -br on the commandline, "startx -br" in ltsp config
<ogra> well, thats trivial to fix ... :)
<ogra> only important thing is that we dont differ too much from the ltsp.org docs
<Chipzz> but worse... keyboard plainly does not work at all when using the startx methyod
<ogra> did you check xorg.conf ? 
<ogra> is the entry in there at all ? 
<Chipzz> I did, and running X from an init-script does give me keyboard input
<ogra> thats weird ... shounds like an X bug
<Chipzz> which is what I'm doing now
<ogra> it should just pick up xorg.conf settings
<Chipzz> ogra: I think it's related to the fact that we start X with start-stop-daemon or such
<Chipzz> doesn't start-stop-daemon close the input and output descriptors of that process in order to daemonize it?
<ogra> might be, i made a note on my TODO ... i'll look into it
<Chipzz> the startx scripts, is that ours or ltsps?
<ogra> for now i have some more elementary probs to solve to get ltsp working at all ;)
<ogra> i think thats ported from ltsp
<Chipzz> so changing the semantics to make it use startx and/or xinit would be a break from upstream and their docs? :/
<ogra> as i said, i didnt touch it ... i'll ask petter (pere from skolelinux) if he's around again 
<ogra> well, we plan to merge with upstream, so we should use their syntax where possible indeed
<highvoltage> lol. it would help if I changed the root-path in the right dhcpd.conf :)
<ogra> heh
<lucasvo> ogra: ltsp chroot didn't build :(
<ogra> how did it fail ?
<lucasvo> 11:26 < lucasvo> Unpacking xserver-xorg (from .../xserver-xorg_1%3a7.0.22ubuntu7_all.deb) ...
<ogra> (ltsp-update-sshkeys and ltsp-update-kernels isnt run yet)
<lucasvo> 11:26 < lucasvo> xserver-xorg config warning: failed to infer keyboard layout from layout/lang '10 debian-installer/keymap doesn't exist--10  debian-installer/language doesn't exist'
<lucasvo> 11:26 < lucasvo> Server symlink checksum doesn't exist. We need to make it
<ogra> thats fine
<lucasvo> 11:27 < lucasvo> I'll try again
<ogra> its only a warning, not an error
<lucasvo> and why does it abort afterwards
<lucasvo> oh, well in that case it doesn't give me a warining at all
<lucasvo> it just aborted
<lucasvo> I don't have the logs any more, I'll build again
<ogra> yep, redirect it to a logfile
<lucasvo> ogra: installing ltspfs on the server is enough? no configuration needed?
<ogra> no, you need a bunch of scripts i'm currently writing :)
<lucasvo> :P
<ogra> ltsp-client needs a way to start ltspfsd, udev needs two rules scripts for mount/umount
<ogra> and /tmp/drives needs to be created by the ltsp-client initscript
<ogra> then you are able to manually mount it to the user session ...
<ogra> the automatic part is done by a script thats currently in the works here
<lucasvo> here you go: http://pastebin.ca/120365
<ogra> does `/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list' exist ?
<ogra> looks like an apt problem
<ogra> re you sure you have enough diskspace ? 
<ogra> and did you delete the old chroot before starting over ?
<lucasvo> /dev/hda1              24G   16G  7.6G  67% /
<ogra> ok
<lucasvo> cat sources.list: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy main restricted
<ogra> can you run it again with the --debug flag ?
<ogra> it will only show module info so far, but that can probably give us a hint
<ogra> thats i386 ?
<lucasvo> yes
<RichEd> hello rodarvus ... how's things ?
<lucasvo> ogra: just failed once again
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.ca/120425
<ogra> lucasvo, log ?
<ogra> ah
<ogra> if i could reach pastebin.ca that would help ...
<rodarvus> hi RichEd!
<RichEd> rodarvus:  can we make a time for a 30 min meeting tomorrow ? ogra + rodarvus + RichEd
<lucasvo> ogra: these pastebins are crap
<rodarvus> all fine, wife & daughter just left to work/school - a new day (and week!) is coming :)
<lucasvo> but pastebin.com is even worse
<rodarvus> RichEd, sure, I'll be available all day long from 11:00 AM to 09:00 PM
<rodarvus> I can wake up early if needed be, too
<pygi> ogra, nobody can
<pygi> lucasvo, paste on ubuntu pastebin
<pygi> paste.ubuntu.nl or something :)
<ogra> pygi, i can after 10 mins or so ...
<RichEd> 11:00 AM to 09:00 PM <- UTC ?
<ogra> in 30 mins ? 
<ogra> voip or IRC ?
<rodarvus> RichEd, yes, UTC
<rodarvus> (thats 08:00 AM to 06:00 PM localtime)
<ogra> lucasvo, that looks really not like an ltsp problem ... either you cant access the packages from the archive or something weird with your apt is going on
<rodarvus> I usually start the day before that (at 07:30 AM) but it depends if my wife is late for work or not :P
<RichEd> great ... ogra ? pick a time between 11:00 and 15:00 UTC ? 30 mins ?
<lucasvo> ogra: so what am I supposed to do to get the chroot working?
<ogra> lucasvo, 
<ogra> Building dependency tree...
<ogra> laptop-detect is already the newest version.
<ogra> The following extra packages will be installed:
<ogra> how does laptop-detect end up there ? did you delete the old chroot before running the script `
<ogra> ?
<lucasvo> yes
<ogra> lucasvo, i have no idea whats wrong there, do you use a proxy or something ? 
<ogra> it builds fine here on all three aches
<ogra> *arches
<lucasvo> no
<pygi> ogra, how do you want me to call the Edubuntu presentation that I'll be holding at UUC?
<pygi> and most importantly, anything special you want me to tell? :)
<jsgotangco> "ALL YOUR SCHOOLS ARE BELONG TO US"
<lucasvo> Edubuntu w00t! :)
<ogra> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/xinit_1.0.2-0ubuntu1_i386.deb (--unpack):
<ogra>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/man/man5/Xsession.5.gz', which is also in package x11-common
<ogra> lucasvo, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<pygi> I mean,com'on, help is welcome :)
<ogra> lucasvo, poke rodarvus ;) 
<ogra> thats his bug :)
<lucasvo> rodarvus: I am supposed to poke you :)
<lucasvo> ogra: it has already been filed?
<ogra> no idea, i dont monitor X bugs that closely
* lucasvo doesn't like the LP search interface
<ogra> i suspect its a temporary thing ... likely one of the packages hasnt built yes
<ogra> *yet
<lucasvo> ok
<rodarvus> lucasvo, no, it hasn't been fixed
<lucasvo> how comes that your machines build fine and mine dont'?
<rodarvus> funny stuff is it didn't happened locally
<ogra> lucasvo, i use the german mirror ... thats not up to date ;)
<lucasvo> rodarvus: ok, when will it get into the archives?
<rodarvus> lucasvo, someday
<rodarvus> as I said, I haven't fixed this yet
<rodarvus> likely later today
<rodarvus> lucasvo, I seriously doubt this is the worse bug you'll find in edgy
<lucasvo> rodarvus: oh, I misread it, I thought you said it has been already fixed
<rodarvus> (really :) )
<lucasvo> ogra: well the ch mirror is uptodate
<lucasvo> germany is lame :P
<ogra> lucky me then ;)
<rodarvus> xinit was published early afternoon, last Friday
<ogra> and x11-common ? 
<rodarvus> so I seriously doubt any mirror is not updated WRT this package
<ogra> i built chroots the whole wekend just fine 
<rodarvus> x11-common is even older
<ogra> *weekend
<lucasvo> lol
<rodarvus> ogra, yeah, thats why this bug is really strange for me
<rodarvus> I don't have this file on package 'xinit' locally
<lucasvo> ogra: for the germans we will release edgy a week later :P
<ogra> and i dont have that problem here ...
<lucasvo> what's the difference of locally and not?
<lucasvo> btw, why do we install man packages in the chroot at all?
<ogra> because the manpage isnt in a separate package
<lucasvo> but man is
<ogra> debian policy requires a manpage for every executable in /usr/bin or /bin
<ogra> so if you ship a binary it needs to have a manpage in the package
<RichEd> ogra: pleae confirm if you can make a meeting in #canonical at 12:30 UTC tomorrow ?
<ogra> sure, confirmed :)
<Yagisan> nforce2 audio should work with (ed)ubuntu right ?
<ogra> crimsun would know ...
* Yagisan makes note to poke crimsun
<Yagisan> thanks ogra
<Yagisan> one of my converts is upset their sound doesn't work. As they are in Denmark, it's abit hard for me to visit and check it out myself
<ogra> pfft, excuses
<Yagisan> but, the whole reason they converted was to play a game - and they can't hear the hellish screams now
<RichEd> bimberi: just looking for a kicker this week ... not a whole team :)
<bimberi> RichEd: hehe, we were lucky Mortlock had his kicking boots on - for once!
<lucasvo> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1649619336892509014
<cbx33> afternoon people
<Petaris> Hi cbx33
<cbx33> Hey Petaris 
* cbx33 has finally got net connection on his phone
<cbx33> ahhh totally mobile computing
<cbx33> this is the life
<cbx33> sitting waiting whilst my wife has a manacure for free :p
<highvoltage> that looks cool
<Petaris> Hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi Petaris 
<juliux> hi highvoltage jsgotangco 
<highvoltage> hi juliux 
<jsgotangco> hello juliux!
<juliux> has anybody an idea what a user makes wrong if he has to use xdmcp ??
<juliux> with edubuntu
<cbx33> hey bddebian 
<cbx33> ping RichEd 
<bddebian> Howdy
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> howz it going, everything going accroding to plan
<bddebian> Never :-)
<bddebian> You?
<cbx33> bddebian: you got a sec in pm?
<cbx33> Yeh everything is great
<bddebian> Sure
<cbx33> ping Yagisan 
<RichEd> cbx33:  pong
<cbx33> RichEd: so, in terms of the edubuntu pack
<cbx33> is there anything else I can do to help out?
<cbx33> I think I must have enormous lag here
<cbx33> or maybe not
<cbx33> hmmmm
* RichEd is half busy
<RichEd> cbx33: will send you a mail !
<cbx33> RichEd: excellent
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> irssi has a problem
<cbx33> whoever said, "is half busy" I can't see your name?
<cbx33> it's white
<cbx33> any ideas?
<RichEd> RichEd is half busy (on the phone)
<cbx33> crikey just joining #ubuntu lost me 100K
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> anyone know how I can sort out irssi
<cbx33> right I'm off
<cbx33> almost used up my free 500K
<cbx33> heheh
<Yagisan> pong cbx33 
<Petaris> ajmitch: Did you get your authtool uploaded yet?
<Petaris> I'm not finding it through the package search
<lucasvo> brilliant: http://www.improveverywhere.com/mission_view.php?mission_id=54
<ogra> yay, RichEd just made my evolution explode :)
<ogra> seems the development version doesnt like appointment attachments :)
<RichEd> file a bug report :  block user richard from calendaring interchange
<RichEd> ogra & rodarvus : ignore first date ... wed = actually tue
<ogra> i doubt anyone in the company ever used or tested that feature :) so thats great, go on using it as you would expect, thats invaluable test data ;)
<RichEd> the desktop toolbar calendar is Sun - Sat view
<RichEd> evolution is Mon - Sun view
<RichEd> requires a mind shift whenever you check out a date, and then go to make an appointment
<RichEd> can't seem to see how i can change either one to look like the other 
<ogra> i think its somehow based on your language/locale selection 
<ogra> seb128 would know ...
<RichEd> he's inactive now in #canonical ... will drop him a mail ... is he Mr Evolution ?
<RichEd> or Mr Desktop Clock ? :)
<ogra> intrestingly the appointment was added to my calendar ... evo just died afterwards :)
<ogra> he's Mr. Desktop
<ogra> he's active in #ubuntu-devel
<RichEd> tx.
<ogra> and in -bugs
<rodarvus> ogra, strange, I was able to accept RichEd's invitation just fine
<rodarvus> maybe something architecture dependant?
<ogra> rodarvus, my evo might be outdated 
<ogra> i havnet upgraded since thursday
<rodarvus> oh
<juliux> hi ogra 
<ogra> hey juliux 
<juliux> ogra, any idea about why the users have to enable xdmcp ??
<juliux> -about
<rodarvus> ogra: I hope "X" is not on the regexp of the excuses for not upgrading since Thursday :)
<ogra> rodarvus, if i'm developing a feature i keep the last 100% working system snapshot ;)
<rodarvus> nice
<RichEd> ogra: selb128 is "last msg: unknown" in #ubuntu-devel as well ... will mail him. tx.
<ogra> juliux, i answered your mail
<juliux> ogra, oh 
<ogra> they break their systems by what reason ever ...
<juliux> they said they only installed edubuntu
<ogra> xdmcp isnt used nor supported in *buntu
<ogra> i dont belive that
<juliux> ogra, ok, i was ver confused about this 
<ogra> ldm wont gain anything if xdmcp is enabled ... it wont use it
<ogra> if they changed their IP post install, they should run ltsp-update-sshkeys ... thats the most common FAQ we have
<ogra> the symptom of it is that they cant log in through ldm ... running the command solves it
<juliux> that i told them
<ogra> do you have an url ? 
<juliux> ogra, only a few forums posts
<juliux> but not realy information
<juliux> i am on my way to find out what they have done
<juliux> they have the right ltps verison
<ogra> xdmcp would only work if you used gdm on the client, which we dont even install there 
<RichEd> ahhh rodarvus : a minor buglet ... or usage issue ... rod@ubuntu accepted an appointment maile to rod.no@canonical ... so it says you are an unonown person accepted your appointment
<rodarvus> ahn
<rodarvus> bummer
<RichEd> tried adding both email addresses to you in the contacts ... but it 'aint smart enough to work that one out
<RichEd> not significant ... just f.y.i.
<rodarvus> evolution is supposed to do this correctly - I wonder why it doesn't
<ogra> i suspect they have written a weird lts.conf or installed ltsp 4.2 or whatever
<RichEd> a quick multi-boot question if someone has a moment: i've got 3 *buntu boots, so my grub menu.lst is not where 2 of the installs expect
<RichEd> when i do an upgrade, and it changes menu.lst must i manually carry the change over ?
<pygi> RichEd, all should stay
<pygi> so no manual changes needed
<RichEd> thanks pygi, but not sure what you mean ... i'll expand:
<RichEd> my Edubuntu boot is on hda3
<RichEd> but my last install was Kubuntu on hda7
<RichEd> so all boots use the grub file /hda7/boot/grub/menu.lst
<RichEd> but my update says: testing for an existing GRUB menu.lst file ... found ... updating ...
<RichEd> so my question is ... is it smart enough to know which menyu.lst was used for booting, or does it just look for the expected file in the expected volume & folder ???
* RichEd goes off to hunt down time stamps and see which file actually got updated
<jsgotangco> goodnight
<Yagisan> cbx33, pong (again)
<cbx33> hi Yagisan 
<cbx33> just saying hey
<cbx33> howz ya day
<cbx33> that kinda thing
<cbx33> brb
<Yagisan> np cbx33 
<Yagisan> I'm fine. getting the CIA bot set up for my project for irc notification of commits
<cbx33> nice
<Yagisan> cbx33, it's good for people like me that see irc before their email arrives
<Yagisan> cbx33, so, how did your python packaging go for gisomount ?
<juliux> ogra, any idea? http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/42145/
<cbx33> still waiting for it i enter the universe :p
<ogra> juliux, no
<juliux> yes yes yes i am not the only perso who has no idea ;)
<pygi> ogra, you have a sec? :)
<pygi> I really need title for my edubuntu presentation ^_^
<Yagisan> cbx33, want more python software to package ?
<LaserJock> Yagisan: no, you can't have him, he's my python slave ;-)
<Yagisan> LaserJock, but, but - I need a python slave
<Yagisan> LaserJock, hmm, perhaps you'll do instead >:)
<LaserJock> hehe
<Yagisan> LaserJock, it's just a small app, but I know SFA about python, so I'm not keen on packaging it myself
<LaserJock> Yagisan: oh, you need packaging?
<Yagisan> LaserJock, it would be nice. I made an attempt a while ago and screwed up
<LaserJock> Yagisan: ah, I thought you needed an app written
<LaserJock> packaging is a bit easier
<LaserJock> but the new python policy is a bit confusing at times
<LaserJock> Yagisan: got a URL for the source tarball?
<Yagisan> nope. app is written, I just need it packages, but the packager needs to know python to help me make it policy complent, as it needs to work with my packages
<cbx33> LaserJock, indeed it is
<Yagisan> LaserJock, sure. http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/deng/snowberry.tar.gz?download
<Yagisan> LaserJock, perhaps we should go either to #doomsday (upstream) or pm to discuss this, rather then in #edubuntu ?
<cbx33> LaserJock, gisomount still isn;t it :p
<Yagisan> cbx33, don't worry, my deng package isn't in yet, and I first tried with hoary
<cbx33> Yagisan, *gah*
<Yagisan> cbx33, I doubt you have the same issues as me
<cbx33> what was your issue?
<cbx33> Yagisan, did you get my pm?
<Yagisan> cbx33, licenses
<cbx33> aaahhh
<LaserJock> Yagisan: I don't have much time to do it right now, but I think between you, cbx33, and myself it wouldn't take too long 
<Amaranth> arg the lag
<cbx33> Yagisan, I'm sure I can help out
<Yagisan> LaserJock, ok. It's not urgent, but it would be much appreciated
<Yagisan> thanks too cbx33 
<cbx33> np
<Yagisan> cbx33, have much free time at the moment ?
<cbx33> Yagisan, ship over what you have I'll take a look when I get a sec
<cbx33> (when I take my headphones off....still working o nsounds)
<crimsun> Yagisan: RE: intel8x0 (nf2) yes, audio is supported. What's the issue?
<Yagisan> crimsun, ah. A user I converted is claiming no sound.
<Yagisan> crimsun, what should I go through with them to check what's wrong ?
<crimsun> Yagisan: at all or in specific apps?
<Yagisan> crimsun, as far as I'm aware, it is all apps
<crimsun> Yagisan: in the former case (which reads like a mixer misconfiguration), check the following mixer elements: 'IEC958 Playback AC97-SPSA' (which will need to be set to either 0 or 3 most commonly, more rarely 1), 'Master'/'PCM' (should be unmuted and set to non-zero levels), and 'External Amplifier' (which either needs to be muted or unmuted depending on the codec revision)
<Yagisan> crimsun, any ideas ? (dapper box)
<Yagisan> ok
<crimsun> Yagisan: in the latter case, some dsps, despite their drivers' capabilities, provide no means for mmapping, so some apps (e.g., quake3) will refuse to run
<Yagisan> thanks crimsun. I'll relay this on to the end user. (whish I could see the box myself, but it's in another country)
<crimsun> right, barring online troubleshooting, these are the most specific elements I can name for intel8x0.
<EmxBA> hi folks
<EmxBA> you missed me a lot :(
<crimsun> welcome back
<EmxBA> hehe
<EmxBA> thanks
<Yagisan> wb cbx33 
<EmxBA> juliux:hi!
<Yagisan> crimsun, with 'IEC958 Playback AC97-SPSA' at 0,1 and 3, both with & without external mixer set
<Yagisan> there was no sound
<crimsun> Yagisan: ok, then I'll need a pastebin of ``amixer'' 
<Yagisan> crimsun, http://rafb.net/paste/results/331LKG72.html
<crimsun> Yagisan: is (s)he using analog speakers or output to a digital receiver?
<Yagisan> crimsun, he's using headphones. he tested the headphones on another box as he first suspected them
<crimsun> Yagisan: then (s)he needs to at least execute: amixer set 'IEC958' off && amixer set 'Duplicate Front' on && amixer set '3D Control - Switch' off
<Yagisan> crimsun, they reported back "no luck with sound"
<crimsun> ok, please reset 'IEC958 Playback AC97-SPSA' to 0
<Yagisan> crimsun, thank you for helping
<Yagisan> crimsun, they claim no sound
<crimsun> Yagisan: has sound never been audible for him?
<Yagisan> crimsun, yes, but not in ubuntu (he installed dapper 2-3 days ago) and discovered his new audigy didn't work, and that the nforce2 also does not work
<crimsun> err, is his audigy still installed?
<Yagisan> crimsun, yes, but no modules loaded
<juliux> hi EmxBA 
<Yagisan> crimsun, no alsa driver for it apparently
<EmxBA> hi
<crimsun> Yagisan: hmm, how new is it?
<crimsun> Yagisan: if it's still installed in the machine, ``lspci -v && lspci -nv'' would be useful
<Yagisan> crimsun, sorry - its a  Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi not audigy
<crimsun> ah, ok. Yeah, James only recently began committing support for that codec into hg.
<Yagisan> crimsun, still want thoses ids ?
<crimsun> Yagisan: nah, no need. Let's start with a pristine alsa state.
<crimsun> Yagisan: he'll need to close whatever apps are using the sound device (probably by logging out and switching to a console, then logging in there), then unload snd_intel8x0 snd_ac97_codec, then rm -f /var/lib/alsa/asound.state, then reload snd_intel8x0, then re-execute invoke-rc.d alsa-utils start
<Yagisan> crimsun, any further ideas ?
<crimsun> (sorry, I can only type so fast...)
<Yagisan> sorry crimsun 
<Yagisan> hmm. that will be beyond his skill at the moment
* Yagisan converts crimsun's request into "new user"
<Yagisan> crimsun, start in single user mode. rm -f /var/lib/alsa/asound.stat then run shutdown -r now ?
<crimsun> Yagisan: well, that would work, too
<Yagisan> crimsun, good. as I said, very new user
<crimsun> (away for a bit, phone conference)
<Yagisan> np, thanks for your help crimsun 
<Yagisan> crimsun, no joy
<Yagisan> crimsun, I'm off to bed now. If you have any other ideas please message me
<crimsun> Yagisan: I would have been amazed if it had worked after that
<crimsun> (the goal being to restore to a known-sane state)
<Yagisan> crimsun, anything else I should get him to try right now ?
<crimsun> Yagisan: just have him toggle 'External Amplifier' for now
<crimsun> if sound still isn't audible, I'll need the register dump from /proc/asound/card0/codec97#0/ac97#0-0+regs
<crimsun> (probably won't get around to inspecting the latter til tomorrow, though)
<Yagisan> crimsun, cat works to get that register dump ?
<crimsun> Yagisan: yes
<Yagisan> crimsun, I'll email it to you after I wake up (I expect it to be in my inbox by then)
<crimsun> Yagisan: ok, please tag the subject with [UBUNTU ALSA] 
<crimsun> otherwise I'll likely miss it due to spam filters
<mhz> hi yo'all
#edubuntu 2006-08-08
<mhz> Do we have any 'ideal' url to submit artwrok to?
<mhz> artwork ;)
<bddebian> Hello
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<cbx33> howz it going
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<highvoltage> great and you?
<highvoltage> you're up early!
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> sorint out my ubuntu studio for some recording this afternoon
<cbx33> hopefully got two new themes to record :D
<cbx33> and I may possibly conceive some new ones at work today
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> i think my colleague thinks I'm strange when I run back to my desk, pick up my pocket pc and start singing to it
<crimsun> that goes without saying.
<cbx33> heheh
<bimberi_> cbx33: how about the sound of fingernails on blackboard (to go with the background)? ;p
<crimsun> the good news, of course, is that everyone is bizarre. :)
<cbx33> thanks for the help crimsun 
<crimsun> np
<cbx33> bimberi_, I just don't think it would gel
<cbx33> imho
<bimberi_> awww
<bimberi_> cbx33: more seriously, when i ride to my sons' school there is this 'cacophony of the playground' to be heard.  Perhaps something like that (faded in/out)?
<cbx33> bimberi_, if you have a mic
<cbx33> please record it :p
<cbx33> seing as school is out for summer here, and you'd probably more likely to hear...you*%*&$ $**^* from this age of kids
<bimberi_> lol
<bimberi_> hm i don't have any good quality recording gear but i'll see what i can do
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> rihgt I'm off for breakie
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<RichEd> hello ... popping in for a sec :)
<jsgotangco> hey RichEd
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco :)
<nixternal> there was a link to a package, "school tools" or similar i had ran across in the past...anyone know what i am talking about?  it seems i have either confused myself, or i can't find it
<nixternal> i did a wiki page on some package a month or so ago, and i cannot remember the name
<nixternal> found it...CanDo
<Burgundavia> nixternal: and schooltool
<nixternal> not tools
<nixternal> that was my mistake ;)
<nixternal> Burgundavia: im chatting with jbrouhard and he has something similar but proprietary that he can't switch from that he uses in his taekwondo academy
<chris449> hi
<chris449> when installing edubuntu it gets up to building ltsp chroot
<chris449> then the screen goes black with 2 dots on it
<chris449> what's wrong?
<chris449> i thought it was the cd
<chris449> so i used a new cd the same problem
<RichEd> chris449: at around 50% 60% ?
<RichEd> i had the same thing ... also thought the install was broken ... but it was a graphics display issue
<chris449> 50% exactly
<RichEd> ah ... same symptoms
<chris449> 3 times i've tried
<chris449> u fix it?
<RichEd> my install is continued in the background, and after 20-30 mins, the CD drive popped open, requesting a reboot
<chris449> ah ok
<chris449> so just ignore it?
<RichEd> you need to be patient ... i hard booted twice :)
<chris449> lol
<RichEd> yep, looks like the graphics driver does not like the text mode install load, and cannot display properly
<chris449> out of interest can the workstation install still run server type programs eg http etc
<RichEd> when it rebots, it goes into graphics mode, and all is okay
<chris449> kool
<RichEd> chris449:  you'll need to check on the site for exact info, my understanding is still a bit limited. main difference is that the server has LTSP hosting
<RichEd> and the server has a non-graphical web server loaded
<chris449> do u know if edubuntu has all the same features as ubuntu - but more
<chris449> sorry
<RichEd> but there should be no reason why you cannot install something like say Apache on Edubntu "w/s"
<chris449> let me rephrase
<chris449> ah ok
<chris449> that was what i meant
<RichEd> open to correction :) my early opinion
<chris449> anything that works on ubuntu works on edubuntu?
<RichEd> ubuntu is the engine of edubuntu
<chris449> so yes?
<RichEd> edubuntu is ubuntu with educational applications packaged
<chris449> coz i used shipit to get the edubuntu cds and can't be stuffed waiting for my ubuntu cds
<chris449> ah ok
<chris449> thanks
<RichEd> edubuntu server has LTSP packaged
<chris449> actually, that probably suits my purposes more
<chris449> this could be interesting - playing with this distro
<RichEd> any native LINUX functionality is done at a Ubuntu level
<chris449> kool
<chris449> that's what i wanted to hear
<RichEd> edubuntu is the next layer above
<chris449> kk
<RichEd> not to be taken as 100% gospel ... but that's the high level view
<chris449> eh ok
<chris449> now i just gotta wait another 45 mins to let it install omg :(
<chris449> u wouldn't know anything about grub would u?
<RichEd> crack open a frostie and pop another shrimp etc .... while you wait
<RichEd> chris449: you looking to edit mutiple boots ?
<chris449> u aussie too?
<chris449> well
<chris449> the reason i'm installing edubuntu
<chris449> is coz i installed ubuntu dual boot with win xp
<chris449> it worked for a couple of days
<chris449> then i started it up one day
<RichEd> springbok supporter, still living in home country
<chris449> and it perpetually rebooted
<chris449> springbok?
<chris449> so i reinstall grub from my live cd
<chris449> then boot to windows
<RichEd> za - south africa
<chris449> ah ok
<chris449> i poke around in windows for a bit, and decide to make sure ubuntu is ok
<chris449> reboot
<chris449> it perpetually restarts the computer
<chris449> so idk what to do
<chris449> it keeps happening
<chris449> i went through all that twice
<chris449> gave up
<chris449> and thought i'll just install a new distro
<chris449> it always gets to grub loading stage 1.5
<RichEd> brb
<chris449> stage 1.5 is one after the MBR, when it's reading from the grub part on the rest of the harddrisk
<RichEd> pop into #ubuntu ... there are more people there ... regarding our thread above, your question is then an ubuntu question, not an edubuntu question
<RichEd> does that now make sense ?
<chris449> lol yeh
<chris449> i asked it there
* RichEd must get back to preparing for 4 back-to-back meetings
<pygi> cbx33, weee ^_^
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<cbx33> you sound....um....happy :p
<cbx33> anyone here every install phpmyadmin fro mthe repos?
<lucasvo> cbx33: yes
<cbx33> from what I've seen in tutorals it should just be accessible via localhost/phpmyadmin
<cbx33> but it doesnt work
<lucasvo> you have apache working?
<cbx33> yes
<lucasvo> is there a phpmyadmin vhost in sites-enabled/?
<cbx33> no
<pygi> cbx33, I ain't happy :) I was supposed to go fishing, rain ruined it :(
<cbx33> awww sorry pygi 
<pygi> cbx33, it's not your fault, lol :)
<cbx33> heheh
<lucasvo> cbx33: is there one in the other sites- folder?
<cbx33> hang on
<lucasvo> I don't remember the name
<cbx33> no
<lucasvo> where is the phpmyadmin directory?
<cbx33>  /usr/share I think
<cbx33> i normally install from source
<cbx33> thought I'd give the repos a try
<cbx33> :S
<lucasvo> just create a vhost to it
<cbx33> thanks lucasvo 
* cbx33 hands lucasvo a gold star
<highvoltage> what's the username/password for schooltool again?
<ogra> master/schooltool ?
<ogra> not sure 
<highvoltage> i thought it was administrator/schooltool, but that's not working on this machine (with default install :/ )
<ogra> hmm ...
<ogra> localdev is working so far ... but how do i work around the moment where a user unplugs all devices at the same time ...
<pygi> ogra, queue?
<ogra> meh, that makes my little script so bloated
<ogra> currently i have a 18 lines udev rule for mounting, 10 lines for unmounting and 40 lines in the user session ...
<ogra> thats all that was needed ...
<ogra> with a queue i think the lenght would at least double ... and make the code more complicated
<pygi> perhaps, but it will work ^_^
<ogra> hmm 
* ogra looks for a more elegant solution ... 
<pygi> semaphor ^_^
<ogra> but i guess i have to queue ... if the user removes an usb hub with 10 devices attached only one will be removed from the desktop
<ogra> abart from that it works wonderful :)
<ogra> *apart
<pygi> :)
<pygi> queue is not that "lots of lines" :)
<ogra> and wasnt hard to implement ... we could have had it in dapper already
<ogra> if i only had had that idea :)
<ogra> hmm, and my camera is detected as floppy ... to sad 
<ogra> but thats a kernel thing i cant fix :/ 
<ogra> so we'll have no nifty camera icon :(
<lucasvo> ogra: it's only with your model or in general?
<ogra> i guess its in general ...
<ogra> the ernel detects the SD card, nit the camera
<ogra> *not
<lucasvo> oh
<pygi> ogra, patch the kernel ^_^
<ogra> pygi, how ? the kernel can ony detect the device the cam provides
<ogra> all non PTP cameras will expose a floppy device (sd card)
<ogra> its an HW issue with the cam
<ogra> i could build a huge database and make udev check for the camera model and name ... but that would slow down everything significantly
<lucasvo> ogra: doesn't something like this already exist?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> you mean libgphoto ...
<ogra> thats only for PTP
<ogra> which we cant support at all
<ogra> (yet)
<pygi> ogra, or make the device give you it's manufacturer and model string ^_^
<ogra> i have that 
<ogra> thats not the prob
<RichEd> hi ogra
<ogra> pygi, that would still require a DB, to match against
<ogra> hey RichEd 
<RichEd> any sign of rodarvus today ?
<RichEd> and b.t.w. did the calendar meeting update work ? the move from wed to tue ?
<ogra> nope :)
<ogra> but you asked before if we'd be fine with a meeting today :)
<RichEd> okay ... we'll see if he turns up in tne next 15 mins.
<pygi> ogra, DB right. but we get much better performance as we don't search accross entire database
<RichEd> ogra: i'm just wrapping up with the background email for our discussion. will send in 5 mins. no need to read through, we'll all go through it together.
<pygi> ogra, especially if we use something light as sqlite
<ogra> RichEd, ok, fine with me :)
<ogra> pygi, sqlite ??? on a thin client ? 
<pygi> ogra, eh, thin client can auth devices against server
<ogra> what for ? 
<ogra> oh, you mean running the db on the server ... 
<ogra> nah
<pygi> ogra, what's the problem with it?
<ogra> i'm just getting rid of all the server client communication madness :)
<pygi> eh :)
<ogra> i want everything thats related to mounting to be run by udev scripts
<ogra> keep it as small and tiny as possible 
<ogra> then i do a fuse export of the dir i mount the devs to ...
<pygi> right :)
<RichEd> hi rodarvus :) was wondering if the calendar update move from wed to tue had confused arrangements
<ogra> in the session there runs a simple script  that monitors the mounted dir locally on the server
<rodarvus> RichEd: sorry, I'm having problems with my computer
<ogra> if a dev is added it links it to the desktop and puts an entry into the gtk-boomarks file
<rodarvus> actually, right now I'm only able to boot my wifes desktop
<ogra> as siple as it can be
<rodarvus> and  it is... yeah, a Windows machine
<rodarvus> *shame*
* RichEd puts on protection
<ogra> rodarvus, do you happen to know if Xorg has a --nolog option or something like that ? my clients eat up memory through constant writing to the log
<rodarvus> ogra: I'd have to research
<ogra> well, then leave it, i can research it myself
<rodarvus> but yeah, quite likely
<ogra> much worse is that my dmesg ringbuffer grows in ugly ways with every device i add/remove
<lucasvo> ogra: but missing eject buttons buggers me
<ogra> lucasvo, ??
<ogra> you just pull out the device
<lucasvo> ogra: about not being able to eject the device correctly
<ogra> no need for eject buttons
<ogra> its sync mounted
<lucasvo> ogra: but in this case, you can't know if someone was writing to it
<ogra> sure, you have a copy dialog from nautius or no command prompt on the console while copying
<lucasvo> ogra: well, if I copy a 100mb file to a flashcard and I remove it.
<RichEd> ogra & rodarvus : 5 mins. then i'll come across to ask you to join #canonical meeting
<ogra> if you pull it during that time it will indeed be corrupted
<rodarvus> 'k
<lucasvo> ogra: you can't count on every app showing that it's writing to disk
<lucasvo> for example openoffice autosave
<ogra> but there was a clear indicator that it was copying
<ogra> ooo indicates it
<lucasvo> ogra: well, and you think a normal user knows that it means do not remove device?
<ogra> yes
<lucasvo> ogra: what if you open the gnome photo application begin to copy photos from device to desktop forget about it and remove
<lucasvo> you will end up having only half of the data on the disk and with an already reformatted flash card
<ogra> as he knows it on windows 
<lucasvo> ogra: in windows there is an eject button
<ogra> not for my floppy
<lucasvo> ogra: I am talking about flashcards
<lucasvo> I don't even have a floppydrive
<ogra> i'm talking about block devices in general
<ogra> and all win users i have seen just ignored the eject button in the notification area
<lucasvo> yes, and windows has an eject button for block devices
<lucasvo> ogra: well, if you have critical data you normally don't
<ogra> which is totally fine
<ogra> as long as its sync mounted it will write through and not buffer anything ...
<ogra> nautilus has a copy bar that indicates its busy 
<lucasvo> ogra: but writing takes time.
<ogra> most other apps as well
<ogra> i dont see any issue here, neither did the people that discussed the spec
<lucasvo> why don't you do it?
<ogra> why dont i do what ?
<lucasvo> ogra: add an eject button
<lucasvo> I showed you several cases where this feauture might be critical
<lucasvo> ogra: even if there is one, noone has to use it
<ogra> because that would need communication, raise the mem requirements by some MB for the client, would need patches to nautilus and other gnome stuff etc
<lucasvo> but at least you can tell the people who lost their data that they should eject it.
<ogra> i didnt see any cases where i would see that as valid
<ogra> if the user unplugs while a copy dialog is in progress, its his own fault
<lucasvo> ogra: you not only have to protect the user from the machine but also from himself
<ogra> yes, thats why we have copy progressbars
<lucasvo> ogra: I don't know of any policy that a programm has to clearly indicate r/w operations in debian/ubuntu
<ogra> me neither ...
<lucasvo> to get included
<lucasvo> ogra: so you can't count on the progressbar.
<ogra> sure i can
<ogra> lucasvo, if you prefer the way you outlined here, feel free to implement it
<lucasvo> no, I'll file a bug. which you can't reject but mark as low priority...
<lucasvo> that's fine with me
<ogra> i will reject it anyway
<lucasvo> are there any guidelines on how to treat bugs?
<ogra> there surely are 
<Petaris> lucasvo: Only if they are on the endangered speices list ;)
<lucasvo> :P
<RichEd> ogra & rodarvus : move across to #canonical-meeting when you are ready please
<ogra> lucasvo, the way it gets implemented is the way ltsp.org uses it since half a year ... it didnt cause any probs there ... it will be implemented according to the spec we worked out in paris ... if you want something different, feel free to file a bug which i then mark whishlist and which will not get fixed until you send the 100s of patches for all the desktop apps
<ogra> (and implement a network transparent hal and udev)
<ogra> RichEd, 5mins please
<ogra> (phone)
<RichEd> ogra okay :)
<Petaris> Anyone familiar with sadms?
<bddebian> Hello
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<sunnzy13> Hi
<sunnzy13> I have compiled a hello world program.
<sunnzy13> But ./hello says: "bash: ./hello: Permission denied"
<ogra> make it executable ;)
<sunnzy13> Is the execution of programs disabled in edubuntu on terminals?
<sunnzy13> I did.
<ogra> chmod +x ./hello
<sunnzy13> -rwxr-xr-x 1 z z 17701 2006-08-08 23:59 hello
<sunnzy13> Compiled binaries are by default, executable anyway.
<ogra> right 
<sunnzy13> So, what's going on?
<sunnzy13> How do I fix this?
<rodarvus> sunnzy13: apparently you did something unusual to your system (or when you compiled this program)
<sunnzy13> It is a fresh install.
<rodarvus> sunnzy13: "or when you compiled this program"
<sunnzy13> Not really.
<rodarvus> sunnzy13: what 'ldd hello' returns/
<sunnzy13> I tried to execute other binaries before, that I downloaded from the web
<sunnzy13>         not a dynamic executable
<sunnzy13> What does this mean?
<sunnzy13> Umm
<sunnzy13> The other binaries that I downloaded has this too.
<rodarvus> sunnzy13: "file ./hello" returns what?
<sunnzy13> rodarvus, hello: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.2.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.2.0, not stripped
<rodarvus> sunnzy13: so, yeah, I told you there is something wrong with your file
<rodarvus> it is not static "dynamically linked (uses shared libs)"
<sunnzy13> So...
<sunnzy13> What do I do?
<rodarvus> though "ldd" says it is "not a dynamic executable"
<sunnzy13> Ok
<sunnzy13> So how do I fix it?
<rodarvus> well, please keep in mind that this is surely not related to Edubuntu, so it makes very little sense to discuss it further on this irc channel :)
<rodarvus> but I'd suggest you to redo the steps you followed to compile this problem
<rodarvus> quite carefully
<rodarvus> and see if the problem persists
<sunnzy13> I think this is indeed related to Edubuntu.
<sunnzy13> I have done this at school this morning.
<sunnzy13> And I had trouble running other binaries that I downloaded from the net.
<sunnzy13> It worked at school.
<Petaris> ogra: just got AD authentication working on LTSP  :D
<ogra> yay
<Petaris> I used sadms
<Petaris> http://sadms.sourceforge.net/
<Petaris> now I just need to get mapped home folders
<Petaris> and some how setup a default profile for the users the first time they login
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bddebian> Hello sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning bddebian!
<highvoltage> hi bddebian and sbalneav 
<bddebian> Heya highvoltage
<sunnzy13> Ok.
<sunnzy13> It is definately Edubuntu's problem.
<sunnzy13> I have just done the exactly the same thing to a different box
<sunnzy13> And it worked perfectly fine.
<sunnzy13> Maybe it has something to do with gcc on Edubuntu?
<d2k> Hiya, is edubuntu available with a LTSP setup?
<pygi> d2k, I mean what? :)
<d2k> ok.. so I just read the install notes on Edubuntu, so it by default creates an LTSP server
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<ogra> sbalneav, pong (in meeting ... bb asap)
<sbalneav> ping me 
<RichEd> Note: Women's Day public holiday in South Africa tomorrow
<ogra> sbalneav, ping :)
<sbalneav> ogra: pong, in /msg
<scribe63> greeting checking to see if anyone knows if moodle will be updated to version 1.6 any time soon
<ogra> is it updated in debian ? 
<ogra> then we can easily ask for it to be synced 
<scribe63> can it added to synaptics repositories
<ogra> if its in debian we can sync it to edgy 
<scribe63> there is a moodle 1.6-2 in debian testing
<scribe63> i'm using dapper which i upgraded from breezy
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ apt-cache madison moodle
<ogra>     moodle | 1.6-2ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Packages
<ogra> seems we already have it
<scribe63> i'm using dapper can i safely use the 1.6-2 version in debian testing
<ogra> no
<ogra> dont use debian packages in ubuntu
<ogra> you can ask the backports team for a backport ... file a bug that asks for it and subscribe (dont assign) the ubuntu-backports team
<scribe63> will try that, i'm interested in exploring the LAMS module, what getting the tarball from moodle .org, is that workable
<ogra> no idea, i never tried that 
<ogra> but LAMS is on our feature goal list ... so i'll likely have to at some point :)
<scribe63> thanks for your assistance
<kai__> Hello from liverpool, am I reaching anyone?
<rodarvus> kai__, yes
<rodarvus> hello, btw
<kai__> What have you been discussing?
<kai__> btw?
<kai__> I'm looking at edubuntu as a possible home/flexischooling tool.
<kai__> good luck to you all and thankyou for your hard work, I'm of to cook.
<Yagisan> !mhz
<ubotu> I know nothing about mhz - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
<Yagisan> !seen mhz
<ubotu> I last saw mhz (n=mhz@moinmoin/fan/mhz) 19h 30m 25s ago, quiting: "Leaving"
<jryer> When I try to save as docbook in Writer, it hangs. Anyone know how to fix this?
<Burgwork> jryer, use a better docbook editor?
<Burgwork> jryer, seriously, what are you working on>
<Burgwork> ?
<pygi> hey Burgwork :)
<jryer> burgwork, sorry went away for a while. I am working to create a manual or curriculum for our adolescent program at Save the Children here in La Paz
<Spec> Heya - how do I make ltsp clients (in edubuntu) boot text-mode only? Do I set RUNLEVEL in lts.conf or do I do something like SCREEN_01 = something?
<jryer> burgwork, what can you recommend?
<Burgwork> jryer, I recommend you write docbook with an actual editor, such as bluefish
<jryer> is it free?
<jryer> Burgwork, will check it out.
<Burgwork> bluefish is
<Burgwork> package: bluefish
<Ubuntugamer> Is there any education program to learn the musical notes for Ubuntu ???? 
<Ubuntugamer> Is there any education program to learn the musical notes for Ubuntu ???? 
<Burgwork> yes
<Ubuntugamer> where can i get it ?
<Burgwork> in the repos
<Burgwork> search add/remove for something, the same is escaping me right now
<Ubuntugamer> do u remember the program's name ?
<Burgwork> no, sorry
<Burgwork> Ubuntugamer, dig around here: http://gnomefiles.org/category.php?cat_id=1
<crimsun> score-reading-trainer is Qt-based, I think
<Amaranth> ogra: I got a Fedex notification from google today. :)
<Burgwork> Amaranth, you must be a happy man
<Amaranth> Indeed, although it's two days late. Cable guy came and took my modem yesterday.
<Burgwork> no money?
<Amaranth> Nope, I'm flat broke.
<ogra> Amaranth, ouch
<Burgwork> geez, you should have told us, some of us could have fronted you some to cover the gap
<Amaranth> I've been staying at my grandparents so it hasn't been that much of an issue.
<Amaranth> Now that I'm getting the money I can pay my credit card and cable, those are the only things I'm behind on.
<Amaranth> Going to have to put a lot on the credit card, my $2400 laptop has turned into a $3000 laptop already.
<crimsun> yeah, no kidding. Just yell already when such a situation arises.
<crimsun> (heck, we [some]  did the same for \sh)
<Burgwork> crimsun, you guys bailed him out?
<crimsun> at least several people contributed, yes.
<Burgwork> that is what the community is for
<crimsun> indeed.
<Burgwork> funny how we are willing to give money/stuff to people we have barely met
<Burgwork> there are literally hundreds of studies on the uniqueness of human altruism
<crimsun> I agree it's unique, but FLOSS is in and of itself a study in altruism.
<Burgwork> yes, it is
<Amaranth> yeah, i was planning on giving money when \sh was having problems then i ended up not getting my check from the school that month because i turned in my timesheet too late :P
<Amaranth> so i went from offering to having to borrow :/
<Amaranth> anyway, back later, have to charge my battery
<lucasvo> where can I find that link for bigger orders on shipit: https://shipit.ubuntu.com/myrequest?
<lucasvo> I'd like to order about 150 cds(ubuntu)
#edubuntu 2006-08-09
<mhz> hi all
<Burgwork> lucasvo, you should email shipit@ubuntu.com directly
<bddebian> Hellp
<bddebian> Err Hello
<sbalneav> Evening all
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: scotty!
<sbalneav> Hey there jsgotangco!!!
<jsgotangco> how are you doing?
<sbalneav> Not too bad.  Just fiddling with some edubuntu ltsp schtuff
<jsgotangco> wohoo
<Laser_away> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> hey hey LaserJock !
<LaserJock> sbalneav: how's life in Winnepeg (sp?) ?
<sbalneav> Not too bad.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: are you going to the Ubucon conference?
<sbalneav> Unfortunately not.  I can't make it to SF at that time.
<LaserJock> too bad
<LaserJock> I saw that the J Dog was going ;-)
<LaserJock> and I'm up for a couple presentations
<jsgotangco> youre going to present at ubucon?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> one on "Getting Invovled with Ubuntu" and one perhaps one on Launchpad and Ubuntu tools
<LaserJock> I kinda hope they find somebody for the Launchpad one because that's a pretty tough topic
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: he's becoming another superstar
<LaserJock> ajmitch: whatever
<LaserJock> I hope not
* ajmitch fades into the sunset :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: its time for us to pass the torch
<LaserJock> ajmitch will be a superstar when his SoC project is done
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> not enough bling
<ajmitch> I'd have to build a compositing manager into it for it to be popular
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> well, I think it's got plenty of usefullness, which really matters
<ajmitch> not enough
<ajmitch> it'll have more usefulness once I sort out the config backup stuff
<ajmitch> so that I don't accidentally destroy everyone's configuration
<LaserJock> all I do is hang out on IRC and write some. I don't do a whole lot on the really technical side
<ajmitch> there's that, fixing some issues in the CLI tool, and the python policy to go before I upload
<ajmitch> fixing the gtk ui will be later this week
<LaserJock> cool
<ajmitch> not as fast as I'd hoped
* ajmitch did too many other things these last couple of weeks
<bddebian> *cough*loser*cough*
<ajmitch> thanks bddebian 
<bddebian> ;-P
<bddebian> I'm just kidding you, you know I love you man..
<ajmitch> whatever
<bddebian> Bah
<jsgotangco> man im getting good at slacking lately
<jsgotangco> ive already passed 150 lines in tetris DS
<LaserJock> tetris? what's that? ;-)
<jsgotangco> heh
<Amaranth> ajmitch is our bling-loving superhero
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Sorry, afk for a bit.  Ogra said you were working on the gnome equivalent of Kalzium?  Where's that at?
<LaserJock> sbalneav:  Amaranth's got it
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> sbalneav: bzr branch http:/dev.realistanew.com/gallium--tw
<sbalneav> Cool
<Amaranth> donations make it go faster ;)
<Amaranth> just kidding, i just can't work on it right now
<Amaranth> probably be able to get back to it next week
<sbalneav> argh.  Still learning bzr.  what's the equivalent of a anonymous checkout.
<jsgotangco> if you have paypal i could consider a small amout on payday :D
<jsgotangco> bzr checkout
<jsgotangco> i think
<sbalneav> sbalneav@phobos:~/gallium$ bzr checkout http:/dev.realistanew.com/gallium--tw
<sbalneav> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: /home/sbalneav/gallium/http:/dev.realistanew.com/gallium--tw/
<sbalneav> ah, got it now.
<sbalneav> Awesome!!! It's in Python.
<Amaranth> indeed
<LaserJock> but of course ;-)
<sbalneav> Well, then I might be able to contribute a bit.
<LaserJock> that would be sweet
<Amaranth> right now it's all in flux
<Amaranth> i'm still doing tech demos, basically
<Amaranth> but i'm pretty happy with the PeriodicTable widget
<sbalneav> Looks schweet
<Amaranth> i'm thinking of moving the data.xml to sqlite
<Amaranth> since we're going to need to do a lot of random access
<Amaranth> and i really don't want to load the entire thing into memory
<LaserJock> Amaranth: is that what makes kalzium slow?
<Amaranth> i haven't done any profiling but i would guess yes
<Amaranth> that and just doing the drawing it does
<Amaranth> sbalneav: it's very bling for such a young project :)
<sbalneav> It's awesome.  I'm fairly new to Python, but I've already managed to pretty much write a FUSE filesystem to represent an LDAP directory.  So this looks like something I could help out with.
<sbalneav> And I've used SqlLite before, but not the Python bindings, but that should be easy to pick up.
<Amaranth> i think the main thing we need right now is someone to go through kalzium and pick out what the important features are and then right up a spec of somesort
<Amaranth> brb
<sbalneav> I could sit down for a bit tomorrow and do that.
<LaserJock> yeah, I can give a little chemical insight on that as well
<LaserJock> one thing that I'm keen on is making it more than just a periodic table
<LaserJock> it really should be a chemistry tool
<sbalneav> I'll fire up my edubuntu box tomorrow night and poke through kalzium.
<sbalneav> I know kalzium was a big PITA for ogra, because it meant he had to include KDE libs, which meant that he didn't have enough room for lang packs.
<sbalneav> And for the Brazillians, the lang packs are important, because a lot of places either don't have the internet connection at all, or don't have the bandwidth to download langpacks.
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> On the LTSP side of things, there's a LOT of thin client going on in schools in Brazil.  It'd be great to have Edubuntu there.  With langpacks.  So, as silly as it seems, this project's actually pretty important to getting Edubuntu going in Brazil. :)
<sbalneav> Anywho.  Getting late here.  I'm off to bed.  Night LaserJock.
<Amaranth> aww, he left
<bddebian> Who left?
<Amaranth> bddebian: sb<something>
<bddebian> Oh :-)
<Laser_away> Amaranth: sbalnev I think, he's an LTSP dev
<Amaranth> ah, cool
<bimberi> Amaranth: it's sbalneav
<Laser_away> oh yeah
<Amaranth> i just found my LTSP guinea pig :)
<cafuego> uh-oh
<cafuego> Speaking of, will there be a way of adding a powerpc chroot to an i386 ltsp server other than doing a powerpc install and copying /opt/ltsp/powerpc ?
<Amaranth> Chipzz: Ah, this explains much. :)
<Amaranth> cafuego: No idea, I just make things. :)
<cafuego> Coz having to install it on the imMac is a pain, takes hours (which is why I want them to be clients ;-)
<Chipzz> Amaranth: wrong chan? ;)
<Amaranth> Chipzz: No. :)
<Chipzz> or maybe not ;)
<ogra> cafuego, we'll have tarballs of /opt/ltsp/ in edgy ... i'm working on it, if you like to live on the risky side you can try last nights edgy build ;)
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-tarballs/
<ogra> but beware, its beta software :)
<cafuego> ogra: The ltsp server runs in vmware, I'm not bothered :-)
<Amaranth> So, I have to wake up in 4 1/2 hours but I'm too busy hitting refresh on the fedex tracking website...
<cafuego> snapshot, try, fail|pass, revert 
<ogra> cafuego, unpack it with sudo while being in /
<cafuego> ogra: cool, thanks
* cafuego needs to tweak anyway afterward; the clients have no bios battery anymore, so they lsoe time and whine about datestamps on bootup 
<ogra> that shouldnt matter (apart from the noisy boot)
<cafuego> ogra: X fails unless I sync with ntpdate
<ogra> ugh
<ogra> thats in dapper ?
<cafuego> So it gets into a start X; fail; start X loop
<cafuego> yup
<cafuego> dapper; ppc
<Amaranth> i thought the sync with ntp.ubuntu.com happened early in the boot
<ogra> we ad such probs (i have plenty of clients that have out of sync clocks here)
<Amaranth> or was that just something i installed?
<ogra> Amaranth, its disabled in ltsp clients, we dont want them to have a outbound net connection
<Amaranth> ah
<ogra> (by default at least)
* cafuego added a call back in ltsp-client-setup; that sorted it
<cafuego> ogra: the ntp server can be the ltsp server (would be ideal anyway)
<ogra> yes, i can :) but that would mean to install it everywhere ...
<ogra> most people wont need it 
<cafuego> Pull the IP out of /proc/cmdline; sync to that
<ogra> well, the IP is set in the SERVER env variable already :)
<cafuego> Aha!
* cafuego deletes $FOO lines of code ;-)
<ogra> rodarvus and i will take a deep look into zeroconf for edgy+1 
<ogra> that could make it possible to autodetect an ntpserver and other network services ...
<Amaranth> ok then, sleep time
* ogra goes back to adding CDRom support to local devices ...
<cbx33> what's the best way to record a screen session as a video
<bimberi> cbx33: there's istanbul.  best?  not sure
<cafuego> ogra: Looks like the included kernel doesn't like nfsroot
<ogra> did you run sudo ltsp-update-kernels afetr unpacking the chroot ?
<ogra> might be that yaboot and its tools arent copied right to /var/lib/tftpboot
<cafuego> booting i386...
<cafuego> Does the update-kernels scrupt regenerate the initrd?
<cafuego> Hmm, nope.
<cafuego> No, the i386 initrd is missing from the tarball, is the problem.
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<jsgotangco> RichEd: I got to speak with Gina this afternoon
<irvin> no meeting today?
<ogra> argh
<ogra> i totally forgot about the meeting
<ogra> indeed there should be one 
<cbx33> heh
<ogra> so 
* cbx33 will brb
<ogra> ********* reminder, belated meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now ***********
<Petaris> ogra: hehe, Once I set up a meeting and forgot about it and went home for the night
<ogra> i was convinced we'd have the 18:00 UTC one today
<Petaris> boy was I embarased when I realized it late that night
<tomveens> hi
<ogra> so do we want a meeting ? seems i'm alone there
<tomveens> the name ogra seems familiar, any other channels you visit?
<jsgotangco_> gahhh
<cbx33> grrr
<cbx33> am having troubles
<cbx33> I can't install libgtk2.0-dev
<ogra> tomveens, yes, a lot ... but currently #ubuntu-meeting :)
<cbx33> it says it has broken dependencies
<cbx33> but they are not goign to be installed?
<cbx33> when I try to install them, i get to the last one in the chain and it says it's already installed
<cbx33> :S:S:S
<tomveens> I think I know you're name from the motu channel
<tomveens> I've got a question, or are you busy in a meeting?
<tomveens> is there some kind of children internet protection program for edubuntu?
<Petaris> tomveens: How so?
<Petaris> you mean content filtering?
<cbx33> tomveens, I think that is what Amaranth is working on
<tomveens> For at least warning my two little brothers when there of in the sex webstream of pages
<tomveens> they like to play games on the internet. And are very jung. They play games with a lot of sex, without knowing that it is not meant for them. My parents can see the humor of that, but prefer a little protection when the surf over the internet
<tomveens> is there something to for example to apt-get?
<tomveens> how do you call such a thing?
<cbx33> ogra, if I installed a differnt package for libcairo2
<cbx33> now I want to revert back to the one in universe how do I do it
<cbx33> without removing every package that depends on libcairo
<tomveens> summer of code dude?
<tomveens> Amaranth
<tomveens> some one an idee?
<rodarvus> sorry again for being late for the meeting
<rodarvus> I'm having rather serious problems with my laptop
<ogra> we all were late :)
<rodarvus> Edgy is basically uninstallabe right now (both live and alternate installer)
* ogra was 38 minutes late
<ogra> well, my chroot builds last night worked :)
<ogra> any probs with d-i or is it a packae thats broken ? 
<rodarvus> Kamion was unable to do any edgy images in the last week, I think (due to dapper.0)
<ogra> ah, yes
<ogra> (.1 btw)
<rodarvus> yes, thanks
<ogra> why the haack does evo freak out now ...?
<bimberi> tomveens: willowng isn't available to apt-get in the current version of Edubuntu.  At this point in time you could have a look at dansguardian
<ogra> well, willowng is in edgy :)
<bimberi> ogra: great :)  i wonder if a backport might happen?
<tomveens> in #ubuntu channel, nexus6 was reffering to an firefox addon, and I found ProCon at https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/1803/ and this one works well
<ogra> bimberi, depends on the dependencys
<bimberi> ogra: k
<bimberi> nicely put btw ;)
<Petaris> ogra: Where is the edgy iso?
<bimberi> Petaris: daily builds here - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<Petaris> bimberi: thanks
<bimberi> Petaris: yw :)
<tomveens> where do you look when you want to know the current ideas and status of edgy?
<bimberi> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu uses a strict timetable for releases, which means that sometimes newly released programs miss the timetable. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases for more. Edgy schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
<bimberi> !edgy
<ubotu> edgy is the current development version of Ubuntu. Version 6.10, codename "Edgy Eft". For support head to #ubuntu+1. For its release schedule, see !schedule
<bimberi> tomveens: that EdgyReleaseSchedule should provide some info
<tomveens> I shall look, thank you bimberi and ofcource our lovely bot ubotu 
<bimberi> !botsnack
<ubotu> Yum!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-localdev-scripts.tar.bz2 :)
<ogra> in case anyone wants to play with WIP ;)
<sbalneav> woot
<ogra> its not done yet
<sbalneav> looking now
<ogra> the icon parts are missing and i dont mount the CDs with their label yet ...
<ogra> but we're getting there :)
<ogra> i'd also like to find a cleaner way to handle the fstab file from the udev scripts, but that would mean to make the whole of /etc writeable
<ogra> (sicne sed needs to create a tempfile in the dir the file it works with is)
<ogra> i'll also rewrite the ltspmounter script in python i think
<sbalneav> Cool.  I'll set it up tonight.
<ogra> the README should explain everything
<ogra> there is one bug in our ltsp chroots i have to fix
<sbalneav> Will it work on a dapper edubuntu install, or should I upgrade my edubuntu to edgy first?
<ogra> /etc/mtab must be a link to /proc7mounts
<ogra> */proc/mounts
<ogra> somehow debian removed that ... 
<ogra> i didnt test it on dapper
<ogra> but since the ltspfs packages are the same, it should i guess ...
<ogra> i'm not sure about udev
<ogra> Chipzz, 
<ogra> !usplash
<ubotu> usplash is the start-up splash (before GNOME/KDE appears) in Ubuntu. To customize it, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/USplashCustomizationHowto
<ogra> ;)
<jsgotangco> ciao
* Chipzz was just being retarded
<Chipzz> :P
<ogra> sbalneav, the cdpinger script is a gnome-volume-manager reimplementation btw :)
<sbalneav> Cool.  I'm reading through the scripts now.
<ogra> dont look to close ... its still early beta stadium :)
<sbalneav> heh, but if I'm to HELP you to improve it, then I'll need to look :)
<ogra> one thing i noticed is that X gets horribly hungry for memory if i copy some thousand files
<ogra> i.e. for my mp3 collection (~4Gig) the client just dies
<ogra> intrestingly its X that eats up the mem not ltspfs ...
<sbalneav> Wierd.  Wonder why X is consuming memory.  It shouldn't have anything to do with it.  All ltsp needs X for is the initial authentication, and I doubt you're even using that.
<ogra> sbalneav, what do you do about the dmesg kernel ringbuffer ? the kernel adss ~10 lines for every device i plug in ... that grows immensey over time
<ogra> *immensely
<ogra> if i plugged/unplugged 1000 times i run out of mem at some point
<ogra> (i have no NBD swap yet)
<sbalneav> errrm.  I don't think we're doing anything.  If we syslog, does that clean the buffer out?  We usually set up logging.
<ogra> hmm, then i might be forced to do that as well ...
<ogra> we dont have any logging by default
<ogra> so the buffer doesnt get flushed
<sbalneav> You could syslog to /dev/null, if you don't actually want the messages to go to the server.
<ogra> ah, right, tanks for the tip ! 
<sbalneav> I can't see where ltspfsd actually gets started on the client/
<sbalneav> ?
<ogra> *thanks as well even we germans are known to sell tanks :)
<ogra> look in the README file
<ogra> it doesnt yet
<sbalneav> ah, never mind.
<sbalneav> in the readme
<ogra> you need ot add the code snippet to ltsp-client-setup
<ogra> and call it :)
<tomveens> see http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=232884 and if you want credit for this article also this channel gave me. Please post it!
<sbalneav> Typical hacker: ignore the readme, and start looking at the code right away :)
<ogra> hehe
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<sbalneav> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/54180
<sbalneav> enabling cipher "none" might be the perfect way to maintain high usability levels for cash strapped schools with lower-end servers, but still maintain the "ltsp-over-ssh" model that Ubuntu's got.
<ogra> it will send the passwords in plain text ... sniffable etc
<ogra> i bet its worse than xdmcp
<sbalneav> Nope :)
<sbalneav> passwords are sniffable in xdmcp
<sbalneav> so, for the places that DONT care about security, but just want to use the stuff, they use = none.
<sbalneav> for places that DO care, then they have a choice.
<ogra> well, you can document it anywhere ... and people can use it
<sbalneav> Seems like a perfect solution.
<ogra> but i doubt we'll use it as default anywhere
<sbalneav> Sure, thats cool, but the issue is: ubuntu's sshd doesn't have = none as an option.  They have to recompile to get it.
<ogra> ah
<sbalneav> So, if it were included by default, then it's a simple case of documenting how to set it, or, alternatively, down the road, making it an UI settable thing. (i.e. "How secure do you want your LTSP clients low/med/high?) 
<sbalneav> I'll do some playing tonight.  Ooooh, hacking is fun :)
<ogra> well, i think Kamion will fight te idea to make it even possble to do it ... but we'll see
<ogra> but we can try :)
<sbalneav> Never hurts to ask :)
<sbalneav> Hey, when you come to detroit...
<sbalneav> come thirsty :)
<ogra> i will :D
<ogra> jammcq said something about the 14th
<ogra> and about leaving at the 19th
<sbalneav> yeah
<ogra> i havent got my ok from mdz yet ...
<ogra> so i havent contacted our travel agent yet 
<sbalneav> Need jammcq or me to ping mdz?
<sbalneav> I know he's a busy guy.  I saw his email he sent to sabdfl on planet.ubu.com.  Well thought out.
<ogra> no, i'm fine talking to him myself ...
<ogra> we just didnt have any opportunity yesterday
<ogra> (would be nice if he could come ... at least for the concert ;) )
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/ubuntu10.mp3
<mdz> sbalneav: I was CCed on a reply from Mark about it; the timing is not great but we'll see
<mdz> sbalneav: oh, you're asking about ogra, not me
<ogra> mdz, well, i'd bribe you with a free concert ticket if you want ;)
<ogra> sbalneav is asking about me, *i'm* asking about you :)
<sbalneav> mdz: we'd love to have YOU there as well, and if a free Roger Waters performs "Dark Side of the Moon" is what it'll take to get you to come as well, I'll pay for the ticket myself :)
<mdz> sbalneav: would love to, but can't commit just yet
<sbalneav> Let us know.  :)
* ogra would prefer syd barret though ... but thats very unlikely :)
<ogra> *to happen
<sbalneav> Yes, unfortunately.  However, Waters/Gilmour were talking about a one shot reunion concert to honour Syd.
<ogra> cool
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> gksu and gksudo seem to be broken all of the sudden
<LaserJock> morning Edubuntu people
<Petaris> Morning LaserJock 
<cbx33> mornin LaserJock 
<rodarvus> morning LaserJock 
<LaserJock> oh my goodness, Levi is now selling iPod enabled jeans
<cbx33> link me?
<LaserJock> cbx33: http://www.tuaw.com/2006/08/08/first-pictures-of-levi-ipod-enabled-jeans/
<cbx33> heheheh
<Petaris> ogra: edgy install doesn't ask for a proxy server
<lucasvo> LaserJock: burton has snowboard jackets with included ipodremote since there was ipod g2
<LaserJock> cbx33: does grasynco work?
<cbx33> LaserJock, as the one in REVU yes it should
<cbx33> but with a disclaimer to backup your isos
<cbx33> it's still beta
<LaserJock> ouch the .orig.tar.gz extracted in ./
<cbx33> yikes did it>
<cbx33> that's odd, I never tar things up that way
<cbx33> sorry LaserJock 
<cbx33> I'll fix and reupload later this evening
<prentice> I have a working Edubuntu deployment at a private elementary school, but need help tweaking one thing...
<prentice> The students all log in with one user, student.
<prentice> This works fine for all applications except OpenOffice, which always launches new windows on the display of the first student to use OpenOffice
<prentice> Anyone know how to force OpenOffice to open on the current display, like all other applications?
<bddebian> Hello
<darklord> i wanna contribute like hell
<darklord> tell me how
<darklord> :)
<LaserJock> heh
<sbalneav> Standard ways: file bugs, contribute to documentation, supply patches.
<sbalneav> Have you had much experience with packaging and/or development?  What languages are you proficient in?
<sbalneav> Translation teams always need love, do you speak any foreign toungues?
<sbalneav> All of those ways are good and useful ways to get started.
<darklord> sbalneav, am an indian
<darklord> yeah made some packages earlier
<bddebian> Cherokee, Souix, what? ;-)
<sbalneav> North American or East?
<darklord> India
<darklord> :P
<bddebian> :-)
<sbalneav> I know that there's a ton of dialects that need translation support in India, that'd be an awesome way to help out right from the word go.  As well, one could always become a Master of the Universe (MOTU), which means being responsible for packaging software that lives in the Universe repository.
<sbalneav> Go to System->Help->System Documentation, and read the section on the Ubuntu Packaging Guide.  That will get you started.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: geeze, can I get you to join #ubuntu-motu ;-)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: heh, I need to start motuing one of these days.  Problem is, I'm already upstream.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: that's no excuse ;-)
<sbalneav> Just popped in.  Actually, I've just written a piece of Python software for a fuse filesystem for ldap.  I should motu that.  Be a nice simple project to get my feet wet :)
<LaserJock> excellent
<sbalneav> brb, coffee
<sbalneav> back
<darklord> i cant decide
<darklord> kde gnome or xfce
<darklord> help me guys
<bddebian> Try all three, figure out what you like :-)
<sbalneav> I'm probably not the guy to ask.  I used twm for 10 years :)
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> twm?
<LaserJock> at least I started out with fvwm
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> but that was not 10 years ago
<LaserJock> more like 5
<sbalneav> Back in my day, that was "too big" :)
<sbalneav> I've been running Linux since '93, and Unix since '85
<sbalneav> I'm a methusela
<LaserJock> well, I installed Minix when I was pretty young
<LaserJock> but I didn't really start using linux until 2002
<LaserJock> when I started grad school :/
<sbalneav> Whoops, sorry, counted backwards.  '84  Got it in Grade 10 in High School.
<LaserJock> geeze, I was 3 ;-)
* bddebian was 14 :'-(
<LaserJock> age and maturity are a good thing, especially when found together ;-)
<sbalneav> Age maybe.  Maturity, never.
<LaserJock> yeah, you would say that
<bddebian> sbalneav: Amen :-)
<sbalneav> If I was mature, I'd get a "real" job supporting a "real" operating system.  'Course, then I wouldn't have been in Paris, met all my cool friends, had dinner with a rocket-faring billionaire, etc.  Mature's boring.  This is much more fun.
<LaserJock> but somebody had the experience to *not* go to Subway when a nice cafe would do ;-)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: And you won't MAKE that mistake again, WILL you? :)
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> especially when Scotty and the J-Dog are around
<sbalneav> Always a party.
<LaserJock> "follow the LTSP guys, they know where the good food is"
<sbalneav> "LTSP: where the only thing thin are the clients" :)
<LaserJock> hahahaha
<bddebian> lol
<LaserJock> hmm, that made me hungy, time for lunch
<sbalneav> Later all
#edubuntu 2006-08-10
<DaSkreech> Is edubuntu going to take out the KDE Applications?
<pygi> DaSkreech, not right now if you mean the KDEedu
<DaSkreech> ok
<pygi> future is ahead of us, who knows what is brings :)
<DaSkreech> not right means at some point?
<pygi> *cough* libburn *cough* :)
<pygi> if we get a decent replacement, perhaps ^_^
<DaSkreech> So there is a list of what need to be replaced?
<pygi> DaSkreech, current KDEedu apps? :)
<Burgwork> DaSkreech, it needs not a one for one
<pygi> hey plotter mhz :)
<DaSkreech> So you can dump say Kstars with no replacement?
<mhz> hi all
<mhz> pygi: heheh
* mhz is running otta battery (3 minutes)!
<lucasvo> DaSkreech: if it would be the only one, probably
<lucasvo> one couldn't drop Kalzium without replacement
<DaSkreech> That was next on my list :)
<pygi> lucasvo, that's why you are writing replacement, bleh :P
<lucasvo> DaSkreech: it's being replaced...
<DaSkreech> I haven't played with KPhysics yet so I don't know what it is like
<lucasvo> DaSkreech: https://launchpad.net/products/gallium
<DaSkreech> This is to be easier on the libs or the menu?
* mhz is reading meeting logs
<mhz> ogra: just in case it can be done... cibercafes near my area open only from 17:30 UTC :(
<mhz> and most meetings are held lot earlier than that :(
<mhz> can next edubuntu meeting be held after 17:30 UTC ?
<lucasvo> DaSkreech: why do you want to replace kdeedu?
<DaSkreech> I thought I just asked that question :)
<DaSkreech> I was under the impression that edubunut was going to be weeding out KDEedu
<DaSkreech> edubuntu
<lucasvo> DaSkreech: yes, it is a goal...
<DaSkreech> With what aim?
<lucasvo> DaSkreech: but the problem is, it includes writing several applications.
<lucasvo> DaSkreech: Gaim has aim
<Burgwork> DaSkreech, there is a gtk version of kstars, but more primitive
<Burgwork> DaSkreech, more space on the cd
<Burgwork> no kde lang packs
<DaSkreech> Ah. 
<lucasvo> Burgwork: not only on the cd
<DaSkreech> Edubuntu is hurting for space?
<lucasvo> not having to load kde on the workstation is also a plus
<lucasvo> DaSkreech: yes
<Burgwork> very badly so
<DaSkreech> Hmm wasn't aware of that
<DaSkreech> And you have more apps that you are looking to include I'd guess
<lucasvo> and langpacks
<DaSkreech> for gnome
<lucasvo> yes
<DaSkreech> Whats the usage of space for the KDE packages?
<lucasvo> between 20-100mb I think
<lucasvo> I don't know exactly
<lucasvo> plus kde libs which also take up space
<DaSkreech> how big are the lang packs that you are including?
<lucasvo> DaSkreech: I think the gnome langpacks are about 8mb
<DaSkreech> :-) And no space for them huh? :)
<lucasvo> the iso is about 597mb afaik
<DaSkreech> That's over 50 MB of free space
<DaSkreech> Over 100 for most distros
<lucasvo> I mean, 691
<DaSkreech> Ah. One digit off ;-)
<lucasvo> yes
<DaSkreech> Yeah that does get iffier
<lucasvo> I guess this pilot was a little bit too horny: http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1994-19.html
<trainpic> anyone here?
<trainpic> anyone?
<LaserJock> I'm here, I suppose
<trainpic> OK I just have one question.
<jsgotangco> :P
<trainpic> Is there any hack for Edubuntu 6.06 to enable local media support?
<LaserJock> not really that I know of
<trainpic> OK. I've just been looking around. 
<trainpic> btw this is my first time on IRC
<crimsun> that's a spec for 6.10
<LaserJock> have you asked #ltsp
<LaserJock> yeah, it is being worked on for 6.10
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure about 6.06
<trainpic> ok. I know it works in the latest version of LTSP, but I have tried all the hacks on their website and none of them work. Thanks anyway
<greg> hi
<greg> hello all!
<Burgundavia> hey greg
<greg> I have elementary-age child and do some sunday school projects with kids.   May I ask, WHY EDUbuntu, vs. kubuntu or ubuntu? 
<Burgundavia> becuase it is built for those people
<Burgundavia> it includes all the apps you need, plus a nice theme
<Burgundavia> for schools, it also includes LTSP
<greg> LTSP= Long Term SuPport?
<Burgundavia> no, Linux Terminal Server Project, thin clients
<greg> ah. k. thx
<greg> I'm fed up with SUSE and considering that I'm finally ready to join the cult of ubunutu :)
<greg> Just trying to decide on a distro.
<greg> ... flavor of ubuntu
<Burgundavia> I would use Edubuntu
<Burgundavia> it comes with all the same apps as Ubuntu, plus  the educational ones
<greg> k.  fair enough. thx
<Burgundavia> no worries
<Burgundavia> hey rodarvus
<rodarvus> hi Burgundavia 
<ajmitch> rodarvus!
<rodarvus> ajmitch: yes
<rodarvus> hehe
<ajmitch> hello :)
<rodarvus> hello :)
* ajmitch was going to talk to you about X after the meeting
<ajmitch> except I went to sleep instead
<lecaros> hi everybody!
<rodarvus> about time I go to sleep, by the way
<rodarvus> but lets talk before I go :)
<ajmitch> ok
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: meeting?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: hm?
<Burgundavia> distro meeting?
<ajmitch> that's in ~12 hours, I think
<Cornellius> !meeting
<ubotu> I know nothing about meeting - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
<Cornellius> bah
<bimberi> now that's an idea
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: right, I doubt I'll be awake when the distro meeting is on
<bimberi> !meeting-#edubuntu is <reply> Edubuntu meetings are (usually) held every week on Wednesdays at 12UTC in #ubuntu-meeting. Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda . All welcome!
<ubotu> I'll remember that
<LaserJock> bimberi: except they alternate times ;-)
<bimberi> LaserJock: gah :)
<bimberi> LaserJock: what's the other time - i went by http://www.edubuntu.org/Community
<bimberi> ?
<LaserJock> 20:00 I think
<bimberi> !meeting
<ubotu> Edubuntu meetings are (usually) held every week on Wednesdays in #ubuntu-meeting. Times alternate between 12UTC and 20UTC. Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda . All welcome!
<Cornellius> bimberi: :)
<bimberi> Cornellius: hey, i aim to please ;)
<Amaranth> dev team meeting is 11 hours away
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: can you pm me a one line summary of where your soc project is?
<Amaranth> hmm
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: for the UWN
<Burgundavia> you can go to two lines if you wish
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: Not really. :p
<Burgundavia> right, then tell me what you know
<Amaranth> For a desktop it's nearly done, just needs some fine-tuning and polish.
<Amaranth> I guess go with that
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<EmxBA> hi folks ;)
<RichEd> ogra: ping
<ogra> RichEd, pong
<RichEd> hi ... i popped in last night to join the meeting which i thought was in the evening ... ZA was off on a National Holiday
<ogra> dont worry, we all forgot about it ...
<RichEd> i saw the conversation thread :)
<ogra> we started it 40 mins late :)
<ogra> and it wnet less than 30 mins
<ogra> *went
<RichEd> i'll check out the logs to catch up
<RichEd> i'm going to send you a quick mail in the next 5 mins re Eric Harrison etc = needs 1 minute x 3 for a response for when you next have a smoke & cup of coffee please
<RichEd> ta :)
<ogra> i'll meet him in september btw
<ogra> we'll meet at a ltsp hack session in michigan
<ogra> (sept 14 to 19)
<RichEd> that's the sort of stuff i'm asking about ... gotta link to the above ?
<ogra> nope
<RichEd> it may be a good plan to join you & him and do a 3 way ;)
<ogra> its privately organized by sbalneav and jammcq from ltsp.org
<ogra> redhat and probably debian guys will also be there 
<ogra> s we can work on the new upstream code of ltsp
<ogra> *so
<RichEd> excellent ... ties up at least 4 ways then ... leave comments for the email ... will let you know when i have sent it
<ogra> yup
<RichEd> sent ogra ... tx.
<RichEd> hi cbx33 
<RichEd> owe you some responses soon :)
<cbx33> hi RichEd 
<RichEd> quickie cbx33 : if we aren't going to get a Canonical stand at BETT is there anyone else who might allow you to piggyback off their location ?
<RichEd> silbs mentioned the .org areas that exist in many large conferences
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> there are no such things at BETT
<cbx33> BETT are stingy
<cbx33> I asked if there were discounts for opensource projects
<RichEd> could you check with the organisers if there are any other FOSS stands ... there may be some general FOSS or left wing socialist type missionaries with stands who would be happy for support ?
<cbx33> I will ask
<RichEd> tx.
<cbx33> there was the FSF there last year
<cbx33> anyone anygood with screen casting?
<cbx33> I have an mpeg and an mp3
<cbx33> i need to combine together to form a video that will run on a windows system in windows media player
<ogra> cbx33, why not take byzanz and create a big gif ? thats 100% platform independent
<cbx33> this is an 800x600 screen cast
<cbx33> with an mp3 audio track
<ogra> byzanz does 800x600 without problem ... but the sound is indeed a prob 
<ogra> RichEd, answer on its way ...
<RichEd> thanks ogra
<ogra> i ope i wasnt to noisy :)
<ogra> *hope
<RichEd> opening now ... will let you know
<RichEd> :)
<ogra> argh .. i made a big mistake in the cd handling code ... now i know why my thin client dies after 20min ... *sigh* dont open 65000 files in a row with only 128M main memory , thats evil :)
<RichEd> thanks ogra ... good comments ... i'll send a short response with one more question / point of view in a little bit.
<ogra> hey willvdl, welcome aboard :)
<willvdl> Hi there, thanks.
<rodarvus> hey willvdl!
<RichEd> hi will ... greetings all the way from rondebosch
<willvdl> Hi folks. Greetings all the way from Durbanville (this time)
<RichEd> rodarvus & ogra & I had a chat around the email I forwarded to you yesterday ... all pretty much on the same page
<willvdl> Yip, went through that. Thanks
<RichEd> we're going to work on a schedule something like:
<RichEd> 1) combined status update by end of Monday
<RichEd> 2) tuesday to scan through
<RichEd> 3) meet on IRC in #canonical-meeting on Wednesday
<RichEd> this is for the core educational team = canonical employees
<RichEd> there is a general edubuntu meeting each wed ... community et al
<RichEd> we'll meet before that one
<willvdl> Yeah, I just noticed that. Was yesterday so I noticed it a bit too late
<RichEd> so i take it you've found the fridge events :)
<willvdl> Yes. It's also mentioned in the title above which should have tipped me off first :|
<RichEd> f.y.i. general edubuntu meeting each wed is in #ubuntu-meeting
<RichEd> there are logs available at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/
<cbx33> willvdl, there should also be minutes for each meeting
<cbx33> but I've been a little busy to write them the last two weeks
<cbx33> yesterdays meetin notes should be there by the end of the day
<willvdl> great. I'm scanning through old logs so that I don't revisit anything unnecessarily
<RichEd> and also general logs at: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<willvdl> The latter should make good bed-time reading
<ogra> heh
<RichEd> we got another lead from Africa yesterday via OEM & Support : Company has a government contract for 100 PCs for a youth project in Angola
<RichEd> They're going to phone him today, and get an email addresa across to me.
<RichEd> ogra: have we done anything in Portugese yet ?
<cbx33> RichEd, did you get my second dodgy email :p?
<ogra> RichEd, ubuntu/edubuntu supports 90 languages, so i'd assume yes :)
<cbx33> I wish I could get my LEA to consider edubuntu
<cbx33> they are so bloody minded
<cbx33> totally pro MS
<RichEd> cbx33: the one from Cameroon ?
<ogra> RichEd, to test the pt_BR stuff rodarvus is a better bet though :)
<cbx33> possibly :p
<cbx33> ok grasynco has had some much needed attention
<cbx33> it still won't do edubuntu yet
<cbx33> because we have diffenrent isos
<cbx33> that's a fix I'll release soon
<cbx33> but it should do ubuntu/kubuntu
<RichEd> ogar: pt_BR < does this mean portugese Brazilian ?
<rodarvus> RichEd, ogra, willvdl: feel free to redirect any pt_BR enquiries to me
<ogra> cbx33, heh, as opposed to the original script that only does edubuntu :)
<rodarvus> RichEd, yes
<ogra> RichEd, yep
<rodarvus> brazilian portuguese
<rodarvus> ugh
<cbx33> ogra, yes
<rodarvus> feel free to redirect any *pt* enquiries to me
<cbx33> hehehe
<rodarvus> (not only pt_BR)
<cbx33> everyone hear the latest sounds?
<ogra> the two first letters are always the language, the two big ones are the dialect ...
<cbx33> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
<cbx33> I'm going to try to get out new music teacher when they arrive to consider ubuntu/edubuntu for their music pcs
<ogra> i.e. there are de_DE or de_CH or de_AT .... all germany, but different countries
<ogra> *german
<cbx33> cos it's so bloody great doing Music and studio work on ubuntu :D
<ogra> (and dialects)
<RichEd> okay, we're dealing with Angolan Portugese which is in my guess closer to Mocambiquen Portugese ... but should have a pretty comon base set with Brazilian Portugese
<RichEd> cbx33: the language in the Cameroon mail may sound dodgy to you, but bear in mind that the guy thinks in a local African dialect, speaks in French and then needs to write in English three diffferent grammar constructions, never mind word translations !
<cbx33> RichEd, I didn't mean it that way
<cbx33> I'm not taking the mick, I mean dodgy in that, why do people keep sending these messages to me :p
<willvdl> and probably used Babelfish for his translation
<RichEd> not making any point ... just pointing out the unusual circumstances of the darkest continent :)
<RichEd> ogra: de_CH is short for swiss german ... now that's intuitive ;)
<willvdl> Silly question but how does one maintain the various <dialects> of Portugues and Spanish? Meaning, when it comes to Mozam or Angola etc.?
<rodarvus> RichEd, angolan portuguese is quite understandable for brazilians
<rodarvus> (its closer to us than portugal portuguese)
<RichEd> good to know rodarvus : i'll forward on this snippet of info to Hande & cc you in. there may be a need for local language conversation and you could assist.
<ogra> willvdl, we have language packs for most of them ... the translator teams in launchpad care more or less for the contents
<ogra> indeed there mya be dialects we dont cover in their own langpack 
<ogra> *may
<ogra> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=language-support&searchon=names&subword=1&version=dapper&release=all
<willvdl> ogra, so are there pretty strong translation teams for the various African countries?
<ogra> has a packagelist
<rodarvus> RichEd, nice
<ogra> willvdl, https://launchpad.net/rosetta has an overview (i never use it so i cant give you much hints)
<willvdl> I have. Did some Afrikaans translation for FreedomToaster. At least I stopped when it reached the Creative Commons license description.
<ogra> well, translating license text should be left to lawyers ;)
<willvdl> ah. Points for Brazil there. 
* willvdl wonder why there's no Argentinian pack
<RichEd> rodarvus: what's the mother tongue in Argentina ? Spanish ?
<rodarvus> yes
<willvdl> It can be quite different at the best of times though
<rodarvus> it has some small differences from the spanish spoken in Spain, but probably is even closer to it than brazilian portuguese to portugal portuguese
<RichEd> rodarvus: I'll send you the MoU for Thailand today. please keep confidential.
<rodarvus> RichEd, sure, thanks!
<willvdl> I think spelling wise is very similar but certainly sounds very different :)
<RichEd> rodarvus: please review & add comments ... add to your actions for Monday. we'll need to get a project plan up & going next week
<rodarvus> *nods*
<RichEd> ogra: sent a response to your response re US meet
<ogra> yep, i'll get to it .... busy preparing for the meeting
<RichEd> ogra: where do i find major events canonical calendar (not on the fridge) like sprint & allhands etc.
<RichEd> ( not rushing you :)
<ogra> hmm, it used to be somewhere on the canonical wiki
<ogra> but i suspect its all moved into that horrible new system 
<RichEd> okay will look ... btw do you attend kubuntu IRC meets ?
<ogra> rarely 
<ogra> only if i'm very very bored 
<ogra> :)
<ogra> apart from kdeedu i dont go near any KDE software ... 
<ogra> and you'd need several horses to drag me there :)
<ogra> hmm, no highvoltage today ?
<cbx33> ogra, i havn't seen him for a while
<ogra> he owns a spec that needs to be reassigned :/
<cbx33> oh
<ogra> i wanted to have that done before the meeting today 
<ogra> but well, then it has to wait
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> what spec is that?
<cbx33> just outta interest
<ogra> the xfce stuff
<rodarvus> maybe I'm able to reassign it?
<cbx33> ahhh
<rodarvus> let me try
<rodarvus> ogra, its yours :D
<ogra> yay, thanks :)
* ogra adds it to the dev report then :)
<ogra> RichEd, if you dont mind, come over to #ltsp, jammcq (jim mcquillian) would like to hear about ubuntu dinners ;)
<sbalneav> Monring all
<RichEd> ogra: ping for a yes / no answer
<ogra> pong, eve a longer one ... mdz seems not around yet in -meeting
<ogra> *even
<RichEd> did eric ever meet JaneW (i'm busy with an intro email) that's the Y : N
<ogra> i think so, she started in sydney iirc ...
<ogra> he was in sydney and in montreal
<RichEd> and if you have a sec more, what's Eric's IRC nic in #edubuntu etc.
<ogra> eHarrison iirc
<ogra> with the capital H
<ogra> but he's not in #edubuntu
<ogra> you'll see him from time to time in #ltsp
<RichEd> okay is it dan_young who pops into#edubuntu
<ogra> yep
<RichEd> and what does he nick by ?
<ogra> he also writes on the ML
<ogra> dan_young :)
<RichEd> ahhhh cyptic ;)
<RichEd> cryptic even
<ogra> heh
<RichEd> he also writes on the ML <- edubuntu-devel or edubuntu-users ?
<ogra> well, until recently we only had -devel
<ogra> i dont remember, but i suspect it wa -devel
<ogra> *was
<RichEd> okay ... will check out archives for some background
<ogra> he does tech support ...
<RichEd> i will also post to  k12osn volunteering to take on questions regarding edubuntu ... will ask eric first (for politeness) and will work out how to route these
<ogra> point them also to the edubuntu lists ...
<RichEd> at the moment, the questions/bugs are in the list, but no-one defiante to help ... it will be a good relationship point to start showing some responsibility
<ogra> they could bear some more traffic
<sbalneav> ogra: You know, one thing that Gnome needs is a way to select YOUR default printer, i.e., set $LPDEST somehow, as opposed to the printing panel which actually sets the CUPS default printer.
<RichEd> yes, i'll do the one-on-one to get a idea of what is happeing & to be friendly, and then start making some routing sugestions
<sbalneav> Where I work, we have several printers per server, and one thing Gnome could use is an easy way for people to set their individual printer preference.
<ogra> sbalneav, i'm not sure gnome-cups-manager doesnt do that already
<ogra> (i have no printers around atm)
<RichEd> if i build up a slow steady list conversation, then it may make others on the list curious enough to investigate & evaluate
<RichEd> and then aim for a edubuntu help page hosted in k12ltsp
<RichEd> (softly softly catch etc ...)
<ogra> yep
<RichEd> okay ... will leave you to meet or code ... as you see fit :)
<ogra> whats urgently needed is a forum ... many users dont lie mailing lists but go to forums
<ogra> *like
<ogra> the prob is that developers usually are the opposite way (me included)
<RichEd> yep ... have a plan for that ... need to make sure we HOST a PEER-to-PEER forum
<RichEd> and not get sucked into a WE'LL ANSWER your questions resource drain
<ogra> PEER-to-PEER ?
<ogra> you mean a forum gateway to the ML ?
<RichEd> as in teacher helping a teacher ...
<ogra> that gets very fast very ugly
<ogra> oh, ok
<RichEd> i.e. we help the proactive teacher who has a techie bent ...
<RichEd> but that proactive teacher gets kicks out of helping other teachers
<RichEd> (will need some moderation)
<cbx33> RichEd, I hope you find some teachers like that :p
<ogra> yeah :)
<ogra> these are very very *very* rare
* RichEd will find a way
<RichEd> i've seen it working with small business owners discussing & sharing problems
<cbx33> teachers time is VERY limitied
<RichEd> my assumptions:
<RichEd> 1) they need to feel comfortable within their own community
<RichEd> 2) they need to save as much time as they give
<RichEd> i.e. find solutions from others as well as give solutions to others
<cbx33> in my experience, teachers want everything done for them
<ogra> the big prob there is that they wont give solutions, but workarounds
<cbx33> they are very very difficult to work with
<willvdl> There are some interesting movement on peer models in the south african education arena
<ogra> you need a tech guy to monitor and tell good advice from bad one
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> that's my job :p
<willvdl> Telecentres.org is also centered round collaborative learning
<ogra> we have that problem with the ubuntuforums ... where you will find the worst workarounds ever 
<ogra> cbx33, fschoep is talking about sound themes in -meeting :)
<RichEd> here's a cut & paste from a respected FOSS advocate in Australia:
<RichEd> We need pedagogical arguments to increase FOSS take up, rather than a
<RichEd> focus on price or freedom. We need to make the case that FOSS gives
<RichEd> teachers more tools to enhance the educational opportunities of their
<RichEd> students.  We need to foster peer-to-peer collaboration, and support
<RichEd> teacher networks, encouraging them to harness the resources around them
<RichEd> to teach themselves about Free Software.  A local Moodle group is a good
<RichEd> example of this.
<RichEd> many of the same points we speak about
<RichEd> TSF is investing heavily in the same area peer-collaboration
<RichEd> one of us must come up with a winner we can all emulate soon
* RichEd has faith
<RichEd> faith can move mountains
<RichEd> (she's a big girl)
<ogra> RichEd, thats about conten stuff ... i meant the technical problems ... 
<ogra> *content
<ogra> for content a teacher driven support it perfectly fine
<ogra> *is
<RichEd> a small business person helping another small business person with say a tax question is not that different ?
<RichEd> tax is a specialised technical field
<ogra> my ltsp thin client doesnt boot ... what do i do ...
<RichEd> but the person who understands enough at his own level for it to make sense, can often make sense to another "lay person"
<ogra> "remove this and that line from this and that script, that worked for me"
<ogra> afetr the next security upgrade his server is totally borked because the lines were important
<ogra> the "this helped me" is the dangerous thing ... if nobody steps up and says "thats a bad idea"
<RichEd> boundaries are needed ... and hacking scripts with a blindfold on is probably over that edge
<ogra> in the ubuntuforums that happens daily and results in horrible things like automatix
<RichEd> but there is a lot on the safe side where help can be given by peers
<ogra> (a script wher someone aggregated 'all' bad advices )
<RichEd> leaving the serious issues to the experts (who should have more time to attend)
<RichEd> as i said, moderation will be required
<ogra> its not about time
<ogra> i answer about 20-30 support mails every day
<ogra> i havent answered one forum post in my whole ubuntu time
<willvdl> a techie can also be "embedded" into a forum to guide a conversation
<ogra> you will find the same if you ask most of the other ubuntu devs ...
<RichEd> ogra: differn't strokes for differn't folks ... techies prefer lists
<ogra> yep
<RichEd> ogra: what was Sydney gathering called (busy with that intro mail again)
<ogra> UDU
<ogra> ubuntu down under
<RichEd> :) tx
<willvdl> On tuxLabs the guys compiled a set of common or frequently occur issues/problems from the helpdesk data. This set was then either distributed onto the servers in the schools as part of the offering. It was linked from a start page and Jonathan was even working on a guided troubleshooter (xola) to walkthrough the problem.
<ogra> thats the advantage of a helpdesk :)
<ogra> on the ML questions are so rare that i even can implement the fix before it turns into a FAQ ;P
<ogra> it gets better though recently :)
<willvdl> thinking more in terms of how-to's
<ogra> yep
<ogra> the cookbook was awesome ...
<willvdl> My thin-client is broken: step one-plug in cable
<rjarett> which ltsp is edu 6.06 built around?
<ogra> ubuntu ltsp
<ogra> also caled muecow
<rjarett> so nothing standard like 4.2?
<willvdl> ogra: it was. we were working on a new version as I was leaving. The old one was still on K12
<ogra> it will be ltsp 5.0
<ogra> willvdl, we have a edubuntu handbook team thats doing the same ...
<rjarett> "will be" is not something i like seeing
<sbalneav> rjarett: The Ubuntu model is the one which LTSP will be moving to for future development.
<willvdl> hmmmm. should see about getting those resources to the handbook team
<ogra> willvdl, HedgeMage and pygi lead that team ... 
<rjarett> sbalneav  ok but short term when needing to patch or incorporate fixes for stuff like local flash media which works in 4.2, its a tad tricky to narrow down what code base to upgrade
<ogra> (both arent here yet)
<sbalneav> The LTSP, Ubuntu, Debian, and Fedora developers will be meeting soon to hammer out a common thin client implementation that will be fairly consistent between distros.
<RichEd> willvdl: you can ask cbx33 for cookbook -> handbook contacts ... i recall hedgemadge is involved
<willvdl> in fact, some templates are up on http://wiki.tsf.org.za/shuttleworthfoundationwiki/TuXlab/HowTo
<RichEd> it will be in the minutes of the meeting 2 weeks ago
<cbx33> HedgeMage and pygi
<sbalneav> rjarett: At the moment, Ubuntu's LTSP doesn't include localdevs, however, ogra is working on porting the LTSP localdevs stuff into Ubuntu
<rjarett> so before i load up a 6.06 environment, i am trying to determine if edu 6.06 would be best or just vanilla and 4.2
<RichEd> they will be keen for input ... especially if it has been test driven by users :)
<rjarett> im trying to do flash based authentication or smartcards, and local flash drives.  no users saving data on the thin client or server
<willvdl> cool
<ogra> rjarett, for an upgradeability and maintainability POV ubuntu is surely the better choice ... it will be a breeze to upgrade to 5.0
<ogra> and you can just use apt-get for maintenance of the client chroot
<ogra> if you rely on local devices *now* youre better off with ubuntu + ltsp 4.2
<rjarett> my environments typically are setup and not touched for a few years.  rasther than constant upgrading due to buggy codebases
<ogra> well, thats a bad security habit ;)
<RichEd> willvdl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HedgeMage ... works from BinaryRedneck :)
<rjarett> not too bad when it wipes itself out nightly and reinstalls a fresh vm
<ogra> heh
<rjarett> or from a clean dd image
<sbalneav> rjarett: Could you please point me at a non-buggy codebase?  I'd love to be running one of those :)
<ogra> lol
<rjarett> i have a few thinknic client installations running strong 5 years now without any issues.
<rjarett> and they supported local media
<willvdl> RichEd: interestingly, we left off our HowTo by including the soft stuff and referring to edubuntu for tech related stuff. tuxlabs was moving closer to edubuntu each release so it was a pre-emptive strike
<willvdl> I'll ask TSF if we can get hold of the outstanding info that's not on that wiki link
<ogra> sbalneav, you had local media in ltsp 5 years ago already ? 
<ogra> why the heck did we meet and spec out a sane implementatin at all ? 
<RichEd> so if we merge on the technical side and the documentation side, then we have a great pool of knowledge & solutions :)
<cbx33> ogra, tiny pm :p
<willvdl> Zigactly. Ferpectly right
<ogra> we should just have stayed with that code and not improve security and usability
<rjarett> ogra  your attitude towards useful features is lovely "wait till 5.0"  very microsoftish
<ogra> rjarett, i gave you two options .
<willvdl> RichEd, there is a wealth of knowledge out there. Just need to filter it. Wouldn't want to rewrite the wheel :P
<rjarett> larger security risk to store user files on the server or client.
<ogra> rjarett, the better integrated implementation for ubuntu is surely the included one
<ogra> but if you need localdev use ubuntu with 4.2
<sbalneav> ogra: He must have done something on his own, we didn't have localdevs then.
<rjarett> well id rather go centos and 4.2 than edubuntu and "wait for 5.0"
<ogra> rjarett, up to you ... centos will get 5.0 too :)
<RichEd> willvdl: can i suggest you start a mail link up to hedgemadge to let her know what is available in the rough 
<sbalneav> rjarett: I don't think anyone's saying to wait.  I think what people are saying is, "if you want localdevs NOW, go 4.2", if you want the newer way to do things WITHOUT localdevs, then wait for a bit.
<RichEd> not suggesting you get deeply involved, but perhaps build a few bridges
<ogra> rjarett, the advantage for you as sysadmin will be that you know how it works if you use it now ... apart from the localdevs and probably 10secs longer boot of the clients, its not worse than 4.2
<rjarett> when i say local devs.. i mean, user plugs in their flash card, and all work they do is saved there. 
<rjarett> browser cache/bookmarks, everything.
<rjarett> will that be in 5.0?
<rjarett> or will i need to make a hack for that
<ogra> no
<sbalneav> rjarett: 4.2 doesn't do that.  
<sbalneav> Nothing does that currently.
<ogra> thats not how it works
<rjarett> i wish people looked more into thinknics deb methods
<sbalneav> Localdevs will basically allow you to have plug in media be the same as plug in media on a regular stand alone box.  What you're looking for is a plugabble home directory.
<rjarett> ohh well
<rjarett> well, roaming home directories
<ogra> persistent home :)
<ogra> we could port that easily from the ubuntu liveCD
<rjarett> no flash card = no ability to save files, and any work you do will be wiped out (i.e. browser cache)
<sbalneav> Well, if thinknic does what you want already, why not simply use that?
<rjarett> since larry ellison killed the company
<willvdl> RichEd, will do. Wil make some round table intros. You still meeting JC tomorrow?
<RichEd> yes ... haven't seen him appear as highvoltage on IRC today ... we've set aside time but need to confirm appt.
<sbalneav> rjarett: Well, neither the current "stock" ltsp, nor ubuntu's LTSP does what you're looking for.  So either way, you're going to have to wait.  One way to shorten the wait would be to help get involved in the development.  If you're looking for this sort of thing, now would be the time to get your voice heard.
<ogra> as i said, the implementation already exists in our liveCD  ... wouls just need someone who dedicates time to it fro porting
<sbalneav> exactly
<sbalneav> ogra: Do we have a page on the wiki somewhere for "wanted features"?  We should add this, and bring it up in Detroit Rock City.
<ogra> sbalneav, usually we ask people to register a spec in LP 
<sbalneav> I could do that now.
<ogra> i wont have much time after the sprint ... we'll release in october ... so things we work out in detroit will have t wait on my side until edgy+1
<ogra> (i'll have to prepare the release between my return and release day)
<sbalneav> right.  Understood.
<sbalneav> but just for discussion.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> even for speccing it and writing a sample implementation :)
<ogra> but codewise i'll be frozen in ubuntu
<sbalneav> crud.  I can't figure out how to register a spec.  I'me hopeless :)
<sbalneav> brb, work ping.  
<ogra> sbalneav, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+addspec
<RichEd> i'm off to sort out supper for the kids ... end of my working day ... will be back in email later
<willvdl> Cheers RichEd. Marilize's pizza has made my stomach grumble too
<RichEd> willvdl: will confirm re: jonathan meet tomorrow
<RichEd> i'll also pass on the angola email response & a response to cameroon email ...
<RichEd> will chat in the morning. have agood evening.
<sbalneav> rjarett: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-persistent-home
<sbalneav> rjarett: If you'd like to go and add some notes to the specification wiki, that'd be great.
<rjarett> sbalneav  is that for feature requests or code?
<rjarett> whats in the 6.06 or ltsp 5.0 as far as physical authentication?   like smartcards or time accounting?   or do i need a custom pam mod and system for that
<Petaris> rjarett: Well, if you want smart cards you will need readers
<rjarett> are there supported readers with the module already in the release i guess is what im after... or a HCL list for the release
<Petaris> not sure
<Petaris> but I think smart cards are supported
* Petaris looks for the edubuntu dapper HCL
<rjarett> because with 2factor auth, or incorporating the physical layer into a student/member id it cuts down the rate of "well that wasnt me... so and so guessed my password"
<Petaris> right
<Petaris> we get some of that here
<Petaris> I'd like to do biometric
<Petaris> see them try to wiggle out of that
<rjarett> well the problem with those at schools or churches is adolescent changes :P    
<rjarett> like when i worked for the govt, our biometric readers would get thrown off by pregnancy
<Petaris> really?
<Petaris> even fingerprint readers?
<rjarett> yeah more than 10% change in weight mixed with other issues
<rjarett> fingerprint readers can be thrown off by size changes in hands
<rjarett> cheap ones anyway
<Petaris> retna scanners?
<rjarett> too expensive
<rjarett> but the govt used a mix of retnal and scales and pregnant women were messing up both systems.  not sure of the retnal reason
<Petaris> according to the forum you should be able to go by the 2.6.x kernel HCL
<rjarett> ok
<rjarett> so im guessing the ccid basics here http://pcsclite.alioth.debian.org/ccid.html
<Petaris> only way to know is to try
<rjarett> yep
<Petaris> drivers avaliable for debian so you could use those
<sbalneav> rjarett: Sorry, back from lunch.  That would be a feature request.
<sbalneav> If you'd like to add some thoughts to it, it'd help a lot.
<rjarett> ill load up 6.06 in a few vms and see what comes up
<mhz> hi all
<mhz> ogra: did you get my bugging about next meeting schedule?
<mhz> RichEd: are you there?
<Caraibes> it seems a bit silent down here  :o 
<mhz> Caraibes: yeah, indeed, sometimes it happens so
<mhz> "i see dead people"  :D
<crimsun> silence is golden.
<Caraibes> actually, I am downloading edubuntu right now, becauese of the new version 6.06.1, to see if it boots on my pc's
<Caraibes> I have 2 small kids
<Caraibes> and look for a good open source OS with stuff for them
<Caraibes> i AM ON bLAG 50K RIGHT NOW, ON MY OWN DESKTOP
<mhz> Caraibes: oh, i see.
<mhz> Edubuntu is a great choice for family solution, indeed
<Caraibes> THANK you for your advice  :D 
<mhz> neurogeek: ping
<neurogeek> mhz hello!.. how are you?
<mhz> neurogeek: alive and kicking but not internat at home
<mhz> :(
<Caraibes> see you !
<mhz> so, this cibercafe thing is driving me crazy... I was so not used to it
<mhz> :)
<neurogeek> sad to hear that
<neurogeek> i know what you mean
<mhz> yeah, too many kids playing on line, to noisy, too crowded and everyone reads emails along with me, hehehe
<mhz> neurogeek: last time I saw you you said "need to talk to you...important!"
<neurogeek> yes..
* mhz goes back home
<mhz> neurogeek: see ya soon
<Burgwork> ok, yum is slower than a dead cat embedded in molasses in the arctic
#edubuntu 2006-08-11
<maccam94> hi, are there utilities in edubuntu to perform large-scale deployments and do administration over the network?
<Burgwork> maccam94, in what sense? if you are using LTSP, you only need to install the software on the server
<maccam94> Burgwork: and then what? My school has 700 desktop computers, all the exact same hardware. Replacing XP with Ubuntu might help with the virus and security issues.
<maccam94> How would such a setup work?
<maccam94> Do you mean you install Edubuntu to a server and then all of the desktops become thin clients?
<Burgwork> yes
<Burgwork> you would need quite a few clients
<Burgwork> s/clients/servers
<maccam94> How much of a load is that on the network?
<Burgwork> a fair amount
<Burgwork> you could also install fat clients on your machines, using kickstart you can set up automated installations
<Burgwork> it is not that easy, but you can hook up Edubuntu to an LDAP server for authentication (by not that easy, I mean it is not turn key)
<maccam94> How does a fat client work?
<Burgwork> fat client is what you have now
<maccam94> I was thinking of possibly having Edubuntu installed on the machines but having the /home directory on a server.
<Burgwork> that is pretty easy
<Burgwork> then you need nfs mount home directories
<maccam94> But then updates must still be applied regularly
<Burgwork> yep, but tath you can set up a cron job for
<Burgwork> setup your machines to talk to a local package repo, and sync that repo to the ubuntu ones, to keep bandwidth down
<maccam94> is there an easy way to deploy edubuntu to a lot of machines at once?
<Burgwork> yes, via net install
<maccam94> is there a link you could give me that shows how that process works? screenshots or command lists or something?
<Burgwork> http://halisway.blogspot.com/2006/06/ubuntu-dapper-pxe-network-install.html
<Burgwork> sadly there is no really easy way
<Burgwork> this is something should be worked on
<Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkWideUpdates <-- this is the plan for network wide updates
<Burgwork> need a plan, however
<Burgwork> an implementation, rather
<maccam94> well, it's looking good to me
<bddebian> 2
<bddebian> Whoops
<bddebian> Heya folks
<maccam94> i was worried that this wasn't going to be the focus of edubuntu (i was wondering if it was kind of child's linux os)
<maccam94> the only other thing i'm thinking about is initial application configuration, such as preset OOo preferences and removing the little kid games (thinking about setting this up in a high school)
<Burgwork> I think you can do that with kickstart, but don't quote me on it
<maccam94> what's kickstart? link?
<Burgwork> edubuntu is very much aimed at what you are doing, maccam94 
<Burgwork> kickstart a RH technology to tell the installer what you want
<Burgwork> it allows you to preseed user accounts, etc.
<maccam94> ok, and is that on the edubuntu install cd?
<lucasvo> Burgwork: isn't it called OEM mode?
<Burgwork> lucasvo, that is different
<Burgwork> maccam94, yes
<maccam94> is there a wiki or guide that outlines ways to setup enterprise edubuntu?
<Burgwork> not really
<lucasvo> I would just create a user, edit the menu and copy the config into /etc/skel
<Burgwork> lucasvo, that has serious scalablity issues
<lucasvo> Burgwork: yes...
<maccam94> hmm, well maybe i'll see if i can get a lab of computers to test this out on...
<Burgwork> he is talking 700 clients
<Burgwork> I would do that
<lucasvo> maccam94: are they all identically?
<maccam94> they are all identical machines
<lucasvo> why not a disk image?
<maccam94> how are those deployed?
<lucasvo> I never did it before. Let me search for a doc in google
<maccam94> and would it be easier to deploy a disk image to 700 machines or do an pxe install?
<Burgwork> pxe install is more sane
<Burgwork> disk images suck
<lucasvo> maccam94: pxe would be much better
<maccam94> deployment, updates, and preseeding are the major concerns.
<maccam94> i know the machines support pxe
<Burgwork> if they support pxe, you are laughing
<maccam94> ?
<maccam94> sorry i'm not really familiar with what it is, i've merely seen it in the boot order options
<maccam94> (i may be an assistant to the IT admin this year, and i'm coming up with suggestions for improvements)
<Burgwork> pxe allows booting from teh network
<maccam94> right
<Burgwork> it also means, when you machines get old, you can turn them into thin clients
<maccam94> ok
<maccam94> hopefully the school's network will have more bandwidth by then
<maccam94> haha
<Burgwork> in other words, by switching to Edubuntu, you may have just saved your school thousands of dollars
<Burgwork> servers can be distributed throughout the school
<maccam94> yeah, i've just got to sell the idea
<maccam94> the guy's got XP on all the machines, and a windows server
<lucasvo> maccam94: with the thin client
<maccam94> of course there's all sorts of problems
<lucasvo> maccam94: well, one server isn't enough for 700 clients, but it's a start :)
<maccam94> viruses, annoying restrictions, network crashing
<lucasvo> maccam94: set up an edubuntu ltsp testlab and begin convincing the headmaster
<lucasvo> maccam94: thin clients is the way to go. much better load balancing throughout the network
<maccam94> if the /home directory could be on the central server (configured with FTP too) that would be a huge improvement
<Burgwork> maccam94, how new are the machines?
<maccam94> lucasvo: there's 700 computers
<maccam94> a year to two years old
<Burgwork> then go fat client with nfs homse
<maccam94> yeah
<Burgwork> it is insane to go thin client with such new hardware
<maccam94> yeah
<lucasvo> maccam94: what are the specs?
<lucasvo> Burgwork: without something like openmosix it is indeed
<maccam94> the network crashes in its current state, no sense putting unneccessary load on it
<lucasvo> maccam94: invest in new network hardware
<maccam94> 1.8GHz intels, 20gig hds, integrated graphics
<maccam94> all hp/compaq
<lucasvo> thats indeed much to much for thin clients
<lucasvo> maccam94: I wouldn't want my files be accessible over ftp
<lucasvo> it is *very* insecure
<lucasvo> SFTP or webdavs is much better
<maccam94> i just have to show how much easier it is to manage such a setup, demonstrate that there aren't compatibility issues, and show how it can save money and time. this guy has probably been a windows user for life, so i just have to show him how much better the alternative is
<maccam94> lucasvo: well i mean something of the sort, because right now every computer has a space on the hd for documents, and it's only accessible on that machine
<lucasvo> which guy? your IT guy?
<maccam94> yeah
<lucasvo> maccam94: yes, you want either samba or nfs
<lucasvo> maccam94: are you a student?
<maccam94> yes, but i'm also a teacher assistant and he said I could assist him next year
<maccam94> lucasvo: i meant (s)ftp for home access. an improvement ;-)
* lucasvo didn't succeed in making his school use edubuntu. they have g5 macs which work all the time. it would be not much improvement
<maccam94> on the internal network they'd be set up for nfs
<lucasvo> maccam94: yes, you want sftp :)
<maccam94> well they already have a decent setup
<lucasvo> ftp is like unencrypted email
<maccam94> my school has 700 XP Pro computers
<lucasvo> maccam94: exactly
<maccam94> and it must be living hell for the sys admin
<maccam94> well, dinner. thanks for the great info Burgwork and lucasvo
* maccam94 goes to eat
<lucasvo> maccam94: if you're at it, setup ldap :)
<lucasvo> maccam94: good luck!
<lucasvo> bye
<Burgwork> maccam94, good luck
* maccam94 is back
<maccam94> one other idea: is there any way to get in touch with (a) school(s) that have switched?
<Burgwork> maccam94, yes, sort of
<Burgwork> highvoltage, who hasn't been here much recently, was involved in the tuxlabs project
<Burgwork> he deployed huge numbers of tuxlabs, which are based on edubuntu
<maccam94> hmm
<ajmitch> hi rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hello ajmitch 
<ajmitch> I see we may have a new X maintainer soon anyway
<ajmitch> or at least it's advertised :)
<Amaranth> ?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: more jobs advertised
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> expanding :)
<ajmitch> again
<Amaranth> so, i, uh, need to have my debit card taken away
<ajmitch> what have you been buying?
<Amaranth> i spent $400 on clothes today :P
<ajmitch> ouch
<Amaranth> i mean, i needed them, so it's good
<ajmitch> hard to find clothes your size? :)
<Amaranth> all i had were blue jean pants and shorts
<Amaranth> yeah, i had to shop online
<Amaranth> http://www.casualmale.com/ <--great site
<Amaranth> shoes and pants are _really_ hard to find :P
* ajmitch is happy being a nice short 6'1"
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> i'm 6'6" or 6'7", depending on when you measure :P
<bimberi> Amaranth: can you dunk? :)
<Amaranth> nope
<Amaranth> :P
<Amaranth> i can't jump :P
<bimberi> :)
* bimberi is 6'4" and used to be able to dunk.  That was a few years ago.
<jsgotangco> wow
* jsgotangco is only 5'4 1/2"
<rodarvus> ajmitch: indeed, we are looking for a X maintainer (amongst other jobs, too)
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: can't do it anymore?
<rodarvus> actually, we have always been looking for a X maintainer, since daniels left Canonical
<rodarvus> the reason why I was hired is not to maintain X :)
<rodarvus> (but OLPC, Edubuntu, etc)
<rodarvus> jsgotangco: I'll have to dedicate less time to X in the next few weeks/ months, anyway
<rodarvus> I have other responsabilities
<rodarvus> and it is basically working, by now
<rodarvus> there are known bugs, but this is supposed to be team work (i.e., other people on the ubuntu community, and inside canonical need/will step up to help)
<rodarvus> such as ajmitch :)
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: understood after all you were supposed to focus on certain work
<jsgotangco> so ajmitch is a possible xorg overlord?
<rodarvus> we shouldn't have an overlord
<rodarvus> (imho)
<rodarvus> we should have many developers interested on X
<jsgotangco> we dont have a lot
<rodarvus> thats why I said "should" :)
<LaserJock> if people weren't so afraid of it you would probably get more
<rodarvus> jsgotangco: thats why we are looking for a person to be hired full time, just to work on X
<LaserJock> nobody wants the be the guy who broke X
<rodarvus> well, I don't really care
<rodarvus> (about breaking X)
<rodarvus> this is a development version
<jsgotangco> yeah well look at daniels 
<rodarvus> and I've done worse than that on other jobs :P
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I'm unlikely to be your new X overload
<ajmitch> not nearly enough experience breaking X
<rodarvus> maintaining X alone is a rather huge job, full time stuff
<ajmitch> s/load/lord/
<rodarvus> but we *really* can use work of developers such as ajmitch, interested in helping
<rodarvus> jsgotangco: or triaging bugs, as you
<LaserJock> yeah, it would be good to have an X team lead and then lots of people working on it
<rodarvus> LaserJock: exactly
<jsgotangco> i wish i could do a lot of it just not enough in-depth knowledge
* ajmitch was interested as being one of the helpers
<rodarvus> X is hard for just one person - one developer can not have two dozen video boards on his desk
* ajmitch has about 4 or 5
<jsgotangco> yeah
<rodarvus> 6-8 developers spending little time caring for their boards can
<ajmitch> I think maybe 3 different chipsets that might go
<ajmitch> even that is not enough
<ajmitch> it's not like anyone cares about i740 these days, for example :)
<rodarvus> I have one nvidia, one i810 and one ati
<rodarvus> but its far from a "complete" collection
<ajmitch> I don't think we could expect someone to be able to care for them all like that, even if they had the hardware
<jsgotangco> its very sensitive work really
<rodarvus> there are more than 10 different boards, with different bugs, just for i810
<rodarvus> probably more than 20 for nvidia
<rodarvus> likewise for ati
* ajmitch might apply anyway, to see what the reaction is :)
<rodarvus> ajmitch: apply to what, you mean?
<rodarvus> helping X, or to the X maintainership job?
<ajmitch> the X maintainership
<rodarvus> oh
<jsgotangco> hail!
<ajmitch> though I really doubt I could :)
<rodarvus> to be sincere to you, Canonical is looking for someone with plenty of experience on upstream development (someone able to fix & commit code to the X.Org git repository, etc)
<bddebian> Oh pshaw ajmitch
<rodarvus> ajmitch: but I don't want to discourage you, please go for it!
<ajmitch> rodarvus: that's what I expected
<jsgotangco> why does C need a kernel maintainer? help BenC?
<ajmitch> plus I'd have to drop other things I'm interested in
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: multiple maintainers
<rodarvus> exactly
<jsgotangco> right
<bddebian> ajmitch: Would you mind checking my upload to REVU?  I haven't done one in ages
<ajmitch> bddebian: -> -motu
<rodarvus> (well, we should be discussing this on -x too :) )
<ajmitch> sure :)
<ajmitch> I didn't want to drag it any further offtopic :)
<rodarvus> :)
<rodarvus> I need to go sleep, quite late here
<rodarvus> good night!
<ajmitch> night rodarvus 
<horrork> I can't find sl-modem-daemon in synaptic
<horrork> Where did it go?
<horrork> multiverse is enabled.
<bimberi> !info sl-modem-daemon
<ubotu> sl-modem-daemon: SmartLink software modem daemon. In repository multiverse, is optional. Version 2.9.10+2.9.9d+e-pre2-5build1 (dapper), package size 496 kB, installed size 1136 kB (Only available for i386)
<bimberi> horrork: i386?
<horrork> Umm
<horrork> x86 I guess?
<bimberi> horrork: 'uname -r' in a terminal will confirm
<horrork> 2.6.15-26-386
<horrork> So what's going on?
<bimberi> put your /etc/apt/sources.list file on a pastebin ...
<bimberi> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<horrork> I was following this tutorial on ubuntu it said to install sl-modem-daemon package
<horrork> Ok
<horrork> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20246
<horrork> I enabled them in synaptic, I think...
<ajmitch> right
<horrork> Do I have to update the tree or something?
<ajmitch> you have multiverse enabled just for dapper-backports
<horrork> ??
<ajmitch> it needs to be enabled for dapper
<horrork> Really?
<ajmitch> yes
<bimberi> ok, multiverse is only enabled for dapper-backports.  You also need to enable it for other repositories by adding it to any other line with "universe" on it
<horrork> That can't be done in synaptic!
<horrork> Ok
<bimberi> yes it can ... sec
<horrork> So which line do I change?
<horrork> bimberi, in synaptic, are you sure?
<horrork> I checked everything in synaptic... I think that's all one can do without manually editing source.lst
<bimberi> horrork: yes, if you click "Edit" on any repos with Universe do you have an option to choose "Multiverse"?  If not, click on "Custom" and put multiverse after universe
<horrork> :o
<horrork> So exactly which one do I need?
<bimberi> hehe, alternatively you can edit the sources.list file directly
<horrork> Yea but you can't expect a beginner to do that right?
<bimberi> sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
<horrork> No I want to do it in synaptic.
<bimberi> k :)
<horrork> Which one do I add multiverse to it?
<horrork> Its got like whole heap of them
<bimberi> Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Binary) - where the 2nd line has "Community Maintained (Universe)"
<bimberi> Ubuntu 6.06 LTS Security Updates (Binary) - where the 2nd line has "Community Maintained (Universe)"
<horrork> Both of them?
<horrork> Ok
<horrork> Thanks
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<horrork> Umm
<horrork> I think this is just not good enough.
<horrork> The official howTo just says multiverse
<horrork> A total beginner will get really lost.
<horrork> Like me... :(
<sbalneav> horrork: Having a problem?
<horrork> Yea, it is solved now. :D
<bimberi> horrork: i find it hard to disagree, i think there should be at least a commented-out multiverse line for the other repos in the default sources.list
<bimberi> ... so that it will appear in the list for us to just enable
<sbalneav> are you editing the file directly?
<horrork> I think it would be better if the tute can be more specify
<sbalneav> If so, why not use the gui-method.
<horrork> Or if there is really an option that just enables multiverse for everything just for onces.
<sbalneav> System->Administration->Software Properties
<horrork> Yea Ive done that
<horrork> If I uncheck multiverse now... will it automatically uninstall sl-modem next time the auto update thing runs?
<sbalneav> No, it shouldn't.
<sbalneav> !seen ogra
<ubotu> ogra is on IRC right now!
<sbalneav> !last ogra
<ubotu> I know nothing about last ogra - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
<bimberi> just to clarify, a commented out line in sources.list will mean that it will appear in the list in Synaptic and Software Properties and be enable-able
<bimberi> !seen ogra
<ubotu> ogra is on IRC right now!
<bimberi> :)
<sbalneav> Heh, the bot in my normal channel that I run, seen tells me the last thing the person said, and at what time.
<bimberi> if Seveas was online i'd do a "Seveas ^^^^^" under that (it's his bot)
<horrork> Ok...
<horrork> Does anyone know how to use dial up modem??
<horrork> I installed the driver but it doesn't dials??
<cafuego> pppconfig
<horrork> Is there a GUI thing that I can use?
<horrork> I already have setup the password and everything in network tools
<sbalneav> horrork: What kind of modem is it?
<horrork> sl-modem I think...
<horrork> linmodem/winmodem
<sbalneav> Don't know anything about winmodems.  I know they need some "special" stuff to make them work since they're not a "real" modem.
<horrork> The howto just says install the driver then dial
<horrork> BUt how???
<horrork> THe drive should be installed.
<sbalneav> Which howto are you looking at>
<sbalneav> ?
<horrork> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DialupModemHowto
<sbalneav> Is it a USB modem?
<horrork> No
<horrork> It is a built in modem.
<horrork> To my laptop.
<sbalneav> OK, what kind of laptop do you have?
<sbalneav> What make/model is it?
<sbalneav> horrork: What make/model is it?
<horrork> HP
<horrork> Pavilion
<horrork> dv4000
<horrork> dv4017AP to be exact
<horrork> Ok gotta reboot
<horrork> brb
<sbalneav> sigh, gone before I could reply.
<sbalneav> ogra: hey dude!  7:00!!! Get up already and answer my pings!!! :)
<sbalneav> Whelp, heading to bed.
<sbalneav> Night, all
<horrork> I got it dialing!!!
<horrork> So the driver works
<horrork> But still no internet...
<horrork> THe network monitor say that I have IP.
<horrork> But modem monitor say it is not connected
<horrork> And there is no internet access
<horror1> So...
<horror1> Can anyone help me with modem please?
<bimberi> horror1: i can't really help sorry. As this is not really an edubuntu specific issue you could try the #ubuntu channel, which has ~770 nicks in it atm.
<horror1> I am posting a thread on the fourms now
<horror1> Thanks for trying to help anyway!
<bimberi> horror1: yw :)
<RichEd> hello all
<RichEd> testing testing 1 2 3 ...
<Amaranth> mic check. 1, 2. 1, 2, 3.
<RichEd> strange behaviour from my Xchat - window stays blank until I move off and back on ... but I see the lines advance ... wierd
<RichEd> brb
* RichEd taps the mic
<RichEd> ah better :)
<Amaranth> RichEd: disabled renderaccel?
<RichEd> no it seems to be fine now ... must have been a funny ... wasn't happening in other channels ...
<Amaranth> weird
<RichEd> greetz cbx33 : busy with mail to Mr Cameroon 
* RichEd wonders if it is really this quiet in here today or if he is disconnected
<jsgotangco> nahh
* jsgotangco thinks we should re-evaluate the website
<RichEd> jsgotangco: that's on the list ... a very long list ... am hoping to get some help from The Shuttleworth Foundation on how to best present information to end users ... they are researcing that sort fo thing
<RichEd> researching that sort of thing <-
<RichEd> which reminds me ... i owe you some case study background re maths & science academic improvement results from IT enablement
<RichEd> TSF may also be a good place to look
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> i will look tonight at home
<RichEd> no i mean for me to look :) i'll be doing some digging for you ...
<toosa> Hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi toosa ... just diggin up your email now about the seminar ...
<RichEd> have you been to shippit ion the web site for CD requests ?
<toosa> :) thank you .. 
<RichEd> on <- ion
<toosa> about two months ago i have tried it, and have recieved < 20 CDs
<toosa> i forgot the exact number
<toosa> but ...
<RichEd> okay ... tell you what go to here to order: https://shipit.ubuntu.com/
<toosa> i plan to order more than 100 CDs ... what do i have to do ?
<cbx33> RichEd: my CD's came today :D
<cbx33> thank you
<RichEd> when you have filled in the order request, please send me the reference ... i'll need the email address you requested from
<toosa> ok, thx a lot
<RichEd> then i can push to marilize that the speed of delivery must be upgraded
<toosa> i will
<RichEd> she is based about 20 km from me ... and i can mail her or call her or chat in #canonical
<toosa> :)
<RichEd> please mail me a short description of the seminar to support your request ... and any web links you may have
<RichEd> https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ for UBUNTU
<RichEd> https://shipit.edubuntu.com/ for EDUBUNTU
<RichEd> if you are handing out EDUBUNTU I suggest you have some UBUNTU as well ... so if you ask for 200 Edubuntu, ask for 20 Ubuntu
<toosa> btw, you can see a little story about our 2nd InstallFest & Seminar at my blog
<toosa> ok
<cbx33> RichEd: do we have an ETA on the packs ?
<cbx33> i mean in a sense that are they goign to be actively developed?
<RichEd> toosa: tx please mail me the link ... i am multi-tasking and mail is sticky unlike IRC :)
<RichEd> cbx33: you mean the conference packs ?
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences <- toosa also look here
<toosa> ok
<RichEd> you may be able to get a t-shirt & stickers & leaflets ... if you do not fit the required profile exactly, please CC me in the mail request, and I will try to support you ... even if you get a smaller pack
<RichEd> cbx33: what packs ? personal intercontinental transporter rocket packs are still under development, but conference packs are a reality
<RichEd> back in 5 - fresh coffee in and processed coffee out
<jsgotangco> haha
<cbx33> RichEd: the leaflets we discussed
<jsgotangco> see you guys later
<RichEd> cbx33: case studies ? those are still being prepared by Marketing ... format is 90% complete ...
<RichEd> i'm still clarifying the process for submission & approval & printing
<RichEd> would you like an advance copy to check out ?
<RichEd> it will give you an idea of the format & verbosity required etc.
<cbx33> RichEd: I was talking about ESA too
<cbx33> we were going to get that printed
<RichEd> sorry cbx33 you'll have to refresh my memory on that one ... one too many inputs must have ejected that one: ESA stands for ? printing for distribution where ?
<cbx33> ESA, EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
<cbx33> on www.edubuntu.org
<cbx33> the UsingEdubuntu lin
<cbx33> k
<cbx33> my intention was to get it printed to send out to schools across the country
<RichEd> okay ... now it all comes back to me ... let me follow up with ChrisK & Malcom ... they're the marketing people with budget
<cbx33> :D thanks RichEd 
<cbx33> It was mentioned that if you guys couldn't afford it we could try and raise the funds ourselves
<cbx33> I just think it's a very valuable document and that has been echoed by a few people
<RichEd> cbx33: spent 10 mins looking for the d@mn link ... found this: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/index.html
<cbx33> that's the one
<cbx33> www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
<RichEd> but there was another one /SchoolAdvocacy somewhere ... dunno why I can't find the general page
<cbx33> SchoolAdvocacy name was dropped
<cbx33> for marketting reasons
<RichEd> in the past 3 weeks ? either that or I'm going (more) mental
<cbx33> no, was changed long before that
<cbx33> ther eis a very old version on the wiki - but the svn and drupal site versions are current
<RichEd> so where was i browsing that had /SchoolAdvocacy or /EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy or summat loik dat
<cbx33> the wiki
<RichEd> cbx33: w.r.t. the pages in doc ... how do you see the hypertext version working into a hardcopy format ?
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
<cbx33> look right down the very bottom
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacvy <- just found this now as you were typing and remember your mockups etc. neurons flashing all over and rebuilding old links
<cbx33> like a product brochure
<RichEd> tell you what cbx33 ... are you happy if we formalise this into a mini-project ?
<cbx33> RichEd: totally
<cbx33> that's what it was originally
<RichEd> yourself, myself, will and Marketing
<cbx33> definitely
<RichEd> i'll mail you the Case Study templates now .. they fit quite closely with your mockup ... gimme 10 mins, and then i'll tell you to check your mail
<RichEd> we can look at side by side
<cbx33> ok thank you RichEd 
<RichEd> Will has tuXlabs exp. We have EtienneG in Montreal Canonical Paid Support who has schools experience
<cbx33> and I'm an IT manager in a school
<RichEd> (yep) Add to that yourself, and myself ... and this will be a product that will fill many needs
<cbx33> indeed
<RichEd> If we aim 1st at schools, we can bend it to govts.
<cbx33> hence why I originally wrote the ESA :p
<cbx33> RichEd: totally
<cbx33> the ESA was written for schools, with "pack" i discussed with you inmind for govn
<RichEd> may add hedgemadge & pygi in for an opinion & review
<RichEd> will be back here by 12:15 ... will foward mail right now for you to open
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> mhz helped on the original esa with laserJock, jerome and Corey
* ogra wonders if the top command lies
<cbx33> ogra: yes it does
<cbx33> why
<ogra> according to it my thin client uses only 38mb ... while playing a 4gig music collection from a locally attached usbdisk ...
<ogra> so i have sound, localdev and X running ... that is theoretically not possible in 38M
<cbx33> maybe it's being nice to you:p
<ogra> especially not while reading a 4Gig dir 
<ogra> (it needs to cache parts while reading the dir)
<cbx33> hmmm
<ogra> but well :)
<cbx33> what's another way to check?
<ogra> i wont complain if top desnt lie ;)
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> *doesnt
<cbx33> it has lied to me before
<cbx33> but I can'te remember what about
<cbx33> RichEd: mhz was working on translating ESA too
<ogra> now if i couls get that command being run by a user ...
<ogra> sudo mount -t unionfs -o dirs=/tmp/.1002-ltspfs:/home/ogra2/Desktop unionfs /home/ogra2/Desktop
<ogra> then we'd not need *any* server side scripts and mounts would magically appear on ogra2's desktop 
<ogra> but sadly it needs root :(
<cbx33> pmount not an option?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> doesnt support unionfs
<ogra> and shouldnt ...
<cbx33> hehe as it wasn't in gisomounts case anyway
<ogra> rodarvus, !
<ogra> morning
<rodarvus> good morning ogra!
<cbx33> hi rodarvus 
<RichEd> cool cbx33 : gimme a few more minutes ... if we can wrap an approved short punchy hardcopy version ... we can translate that many times
<cbx33> RichEd: totally
<rodarvus> hi cbx33!
<cbx33> sorry, I'll be popping off home in a while
<RichEd> and then link to web site which can be updated & translated and more verbose
<ogra> rodarvus, probably you have an idea ....
<cbx33> rodarvus: Jane is coming up with some good work
<RichEd> hi rodarvus  & ogra 
<cbx33> RichEd: indeed
<RichEd> cbx33: how much time do you still have ? 10 mins ?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> probably 20
<cbx33> dpeends when i get kicked out
<ogra> rodarvus, on the thin client udev mounts new attached devices in /tmp/drives ... that dir is fuse mounted to /tmp/$UID-ltspfs on the server ...
<RichEd> okay ... c u in 5
<ogra> rodarvus, so the devices appear magically in /tmp/$UID-ltspfs if i plug them in
<ogra> rodarvus, if i do the following:
<ogra> sudo mount -t unionfs -o dirs=/tmp/.1002-ltspfs:/home/ogra2/Desktop unionfs /home/ogra2/Desktop
<rodarvus> hi RichEd
<ogra> the Desktop is merged with /tmp/$UID-ltspfs for ogra2
<rodarvus> (be back in two minutes)
<ogra> any idea how to do the unionfs mount from a users session script without suided mount ?
<RichEd> cbx33: opening docs now
<cbx33> ;)
<RichEd> aargh they don't display that nicely in OOffice - as per ChrisK's comments
<RichEd> i saw the hard copy ... looked much better ...
<RichEd> let me open on my commercial machine next to me
<RichEd> brb
<rodarvus> back
<rodarvus> let me read and undestand this talk
<RichEd> mmmm cbx33 to use the local ZA vernacular, looks kak in both OOffice & MSOffice
<RichEd> i'll ask ChrisK to request a PDF copy from his layout artist
<cbx33> ok
<RichEd> so we can see the full background image impact
<rodarvus> ogra, I don't think this can be done without root privileges
<rodarvus> my suggestion would be to add little privileges in /etc/sudoers (meaning: they can only run one *very specific* command as root)
<cbx33> RichEd: I'm gonna be off in like 5 mins
<cbx33> you'll be bale to catch me later on 
<RichEd> okay cbx33 - you disappeared for a bit - i will put Will ven der Leij onto this as a project task. we'll see it all the way through. resume on Monday.
<RichEd> i'll mail you & corey & will to kick off.
<cbx33> sounds good to me
<RichEd> busy chatting to head office re PDF now ... chris is on a paraffin budgie now to the US (which will hopefully not explode) ... plan B being discusses
<RichEd> discussed <- discusses
<RichEd> check email for progress. later. have a good one.
<ogra> rodarvus, uuuh ...
<ogra> i dont think tweaking sudoers will make pitti happy :)
<rodarvus> ogra, yeah, I share this opinion with you :)
<ogra> rodarvus, did you chaneg the postinst of xorg ? it seems setting the colordepth with a preseed value isnt possible anymore
<ogra> oh, no its a bug in the script ...
<rodarvus> :)
<ogra> grmmbl
<ogra> bashism and i cant solve it
<sbalneav> Morning!
<sbalneav> ogra: ping...
<JanisLee> hi
<sbalneav> hello JanisLee 
<ogra> sbalneav, pong
<ogra> morning 
<sbalneav> hey!
<sbalneav> check prov msg
<sbalneav> err, priv
<pygi> ogra, poke
<pygi> ogra, poke again :)
* ogra falls over
<pygi> ogra, i've got someone from debian interested;)
<ogra> in what ? 
<pygi> the future? libburn :)
<ogra> ah :)
<ogra> nice :)
<pygi> :)
<pygi> now if I could only fix this movie sending over Dbus, that would be great :)
<ogra> lol
<ogra>  movie sending over Dbus ?
<ogra> youre joking, right ? 
<ogra> or do you really try to abuse debus for such amounts of data ?
<ogra> *dbus
<ogra> meh, my localdevic implementation wont work :(((
<ogra> *device
<ogra> eporting the dir where i mount the devices on the client wil limit the disksize of the mount to the free mem of the client ... 
<ogra> *exporting
<ogra> so my 80Gig disk appears as 50M disk :/
* ogra kicks the kernel for such limitations
<pygi> ogra, hehe :)
<pygi> joking ofcourse ^_^
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<sbalneav> Morning!
<sbalneav> again :)
<ogra> heh
<bddebian> Heya
<RichEd> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi RichEd
<RichEd> seein as it is so quiet in here, can i ask a semi-off topic evolution PGP question ... just a quickie to clear up some ambiguity on an ubuntu forum post ?
<RichEd> the forum says post User ID details into evolution PGP security page ... surely I post Key ID details ??
<bddebian> You can ask but I won't be able to help you with evolution most likely :-(
<RichEd> did you see the question ? more PGP rather than evolution
<bddebian> What exactly is it asking for?
<RichEd> input prompt says KeyID ... would rather go with that than external advice page ... no ?
* Caraibes is very happy with his Edubuntu 6.06.1 (for his kids)  8-)
<cbx33> hi RichEd 
<ogra> Caraibes, yay, nice to hear :)
<Caraibes> kids = 2 & 4
<cbx33> Caraibes, :D
<RichEd> Caraibes: have you got a moment to send me an email expressing your delight ?
<Caraibes> so thanks to the comunity !
<RichEd> what you want it for and how good a job it is doing ?
<cbx33> RichEd, did we have anything else left to discuss?
<Caraibes> sure
<RichEd> cbx33: all done for now ... will catch up with you on monday ... creating task for will to manage.
<RichEd> Caraibes:  nothing formal ... just some off the top of your head text comments ?
<cbx33> RichEd, ok cool, just thought I'd check in
<Caraibes> ok, doing it right now...
<RichEd> Caraibes:  i'm just looking to find out *what audience the current feature set works for* and then push for more adoption there
<RichEd> home use is great, kids use is great ... lots of those sort of potential users ... also cost saving on licence for home user & old work equipment etc.
<RichEd> cbx33: can I send my first PGP encrypted email from evolution to you and get a reply to see if it all works ?
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> you have my key I take it
<RichEd> nope not yet will check for it at http://pgp.mit.edu
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> RichEd, what is your emai laddy
<cbx33> which you have your key for
<Caraibes> hey RichEd :
<RichEd> found your hotmail one ... presume that is you ?
<Caraibes> Well, here's the story :
<cbx33> I'll send you a message too encrypted 
<Caraibes> I am a GNU/linux aficionado, and I also happen to have 2 little boys, 2 & 4 years old. I just realised that the eldest seems to take interest in computers, so I downloaded and installed Edubuntu 6.06.1 (brand new from yesterday), and installed it on one of my little internet-caf's PC's (dual-boot, because of the customers, but I personally don't use windows).
<Caraibes> I made sure to add "Childsplay" to the games, since my kids enjoy it. There's "the potato guy", "Tux Paint", and the layout seems to be appealing for children. So I am very happy with it, and plan to install it on more PC's.
<Caraibes> I realised my install in spanish, since we are in Dominican Republic, and this is the language the kids use at Kindergarten.
<Caraibes> That's about it...
<Caraibes> I want to thank the folks behind that project, because it is much apreciated !
<cbx33> RichEd, use petesavage@ubuntu.com
<cbx33> that should have one
<RichEd> lovely Caraibes :) can you send it in an email to richard.edubuntu@gmail.com
<Caraibes> ok
<RichEd> okay cbx33 : i looked for peter
<Caraibes> if ou need more, ask me !
<cbx33> hehe ok
<RichEd> that's more than fine ... language feature as well ! ... all very nice
<RichEd> Caraibes: and if a 2 & 4 year old can use linux, why are so many 30 year old IT Technical people afraid ? :)
<Caraibes> if you know more material to learn how to read & write for small kids... let me know...
<Caraibes> that's me !
<Caraibes> but I am not afraid since 2 years  8-) 
<RichEd> cbx33: no pete savage @ ubuntu at http://pgp.mit.edu
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> ogra, what's the keyserver you use
<cbx33> mine.nl
<RichEd> is the hotmail one you ?
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> node50@hotmail.com - but I'm not gpg enabled there
<cbx33> petesavage@ubuntu.com is
<cbx33> sent one to you
<RichEd> okay ... ta
<cbx33> goto the command line and type    gpg -recv-keys A5B281DF 
<cbx33> that should get my key
<ogra> keyserver.mine.nu
<cbx33> that's the one
<RichEd> got the mail ... but please resend ... finger / memory trouble on passphrase
<cbx33> hehe ok
<cbx33> done
<RichEd> sorted ! thanks reply on its way
<cbx33> you're in business
<RichEd> thanks for help !
<cbx33> RichEd, np
<jomolina> alguien que hable espaol????
<jomolina> Hola buenos das Alguien que hable Espaol
<jomolina> necesito ayuda!
<cbx33> Is that, is there anyone who speaks spanish, I need help?
<jomolina> I need help, but my english is very bad, I speak Espaol, 
<cbx33> My spanish is non existant
<cbx33> but I can try to help
<jomolina> ok cbx33
<sbalneav> ogra: you there, o-dog?
<Caraibes> Aqui si hablamos espaol !
<Caraibes> pero los demas hablan ingls !
<ogra> sbalneav, yup
<sbalneav> ok.
<sbalneav> I've been doing some reading, and I think this is totally solvable
<ogra> how ?
<sbalneav> want to discuss it here, or in mesg?
<ogra> as you like :)
<sbalneav> up to you, just didn't want to flood channel with mumbo-jumbo.
<sbalneav> we'll do it here.
<ogra> well, its edubuntu development :)
<sbalneav> ok, here's the plan:
<sbalneav> on the add_fstab and remove_fstab:
<sbalneav> what we don't want to do is the mount there: because ltspfsd has the built in automounter, that will handle unmounting idle media.
<ogra> ok
<sbalneav> So, rather than mounting, and that point, we send a command back up to the server through the ssh tunnel
<sbalneav> to ltspfs mount the dir that's been added.
<ogra> since sync mounting seems to be quite stable in 2.6.16 i thought we could just use that
<ogra> but since we need the notification system anyway, it doesnt matter
<sbalneav> right.
<sbalneav> And since we've got that nice existing ssh tunnel to route commands over, this is a piece of cake
<ogra> so how do we send the command through the tunnel ? 
<ogra> we cant use a port
<sbalneav> see, in "stock" ltsp, we don't HAVE that, so thats why we have lbus.
<ogra> ldm wouldnt know which port is avalable on the server while it initiates the ssh connection
<sbalneav> right, but at this point, you've alread established the connection, and ssh has that fancy bit that allows you to send commands over an already established port, yes?
<ogra> how ? 
<sbalneav> What's the option for that....
<sbalneav> Man, I've seen it.  We talked about it 2 dev confs ago.
<ogra> i only know that you can establish multiple tunnels through one connection by giving multiple ports to the ssh command ...
<sbalneav> hmmm, gimme 2 shakes to look this up...
<ogra> but i have no idea how to connect to an established connection on a ssh level
<ogra> i know it should be possible through X
<sbalneav> http://www.revsys.com/writings/quicktips/ssh-faster-connections.html
<sbalneav> ControlMaster's the ticket.
<sbalneav> and http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/290
<sbalneav> We've got the ssh connection esatblished, we can just jam the ltspfs mount commands down it.
<sbalneav> Easy like pie.
<sbalneav> I'll hack it up when I get home.
<sbalneav> This will actually be EASIER than what stock ltsp has to do with lbus.
* sbalneav suspect's ogra's reading furiously.
<sbalneav> whoops
<sbalneav> s/ect's/ects/
<ogra> i am
<ogra> we'll likely need to store the username somewhere 
<sbalneav> Sure, but since YOU wrote LDM, that should be a cakewalk :)
<sbalneav> actually, we probably don't need to store the username
<sbalneav> you could set control master to just /tmp/%h:%p
<sbalneav> since there will only be one user on the terminal
<sbalneav> I think that's just to name the socket in an intelligent way.
<ogra> there is only root on the terminal indeed
<sbalneav> easy as pie.
* ogra tries to use -M and -S in ldm
<ogra> ok, works ...
<sbalneav> see?
<ogra> sbalneav, wow, thast really cool
<ogra> and doesnt need any username :)
<sbalneav> There are no problems, only solutions :)
<maccam94> is there a way to quickly create hundreds of users?
<sbalneav> maccam94: heh, sure.
<sbalneav> Do you have a list of them?
<maccam94> well probably in some form of database
<sbalneav> Can you shell script?
<maccam94> I can... to a degree.
<sbalneav> really, all you need to do is just call adduser command
<sbalneav> adduser --home DIR --shell SHELL etc.
<maccam94> Is there a way to feed a large list of users into it at once, and set them all with the same groups?
<sbalneav> no, but a simple shell for loop will do that.
<sbalneav> Have you already got the usernames decided, or do you just have firstname and lastname and need to generate the username?
<maccam94> Ok, well the other thing is that it's a list of Full Names, not user names
<maccam94> yeah
<maccam94> i havec to generate the username
<maccam94> and random passwords
<ogra> sbalneav, yay, works wonderful ... and we can even do it from the udev script i think ;)
<sbalneav> What standard do you use?
<sbalneav> Scott Balneaves = sbalneav?
<sbalneav> ogra: exactly.
<maccam94> well probably something like that yeah
<maccam94> something would have to be done to resolve dupes though...
<sbalneav> maccam94: gimme a couple of minutes, I'll code you up a quick example, you can go from there.
<maccam94> 400 users, there'll probably be at least a few people with the same first initial and last name
<maccam94> ok
<sbalneav> maccam94: What's yer email.
<jsgotangco> yo!
<maccam94> maccam94@gmail.com
<sbalneav> yo yo!
* maccam94 has a few yoyo's at his house
* maccam94 attacks jsgotangco with a duncan and an x-brain
<maccam94> :-P
<jsgotangco> lol
<sbalneav> k, sent it.
<sbalneav> It's not complete, but it's enough to get you started.
<cbx33> hey jsgotangco 
<sbalneav> It creates the userid from the firstname lastname pair, and generates the appropriate adduser commandline.
<maccam94> ok
<sbalneav> Do you administer a large Linux site?
<maccam94> well i'm designing a proposal to replace a school's windows setup with edubuntu
<cbx33> maccam94, good on you :p
<sbalneav> If you're a sysadmin, picking "Learning BASH" from O'Reilly books is a VERY worthwhile investment.  Spending an hour a day learning a bit of shell scripting will save 10x the amount of drudgework down the road :)
<maccam94> yeah i've been looking into shell scripting for a while, I really like it
<maccam94> i use gentoo on my desktop personally
<maccam94> but i think something like edubuntu is much more normal-people speed and would be much better at school
<maccam94> not to mention that it would fix many long standing problems
<sbalneav> Absolutely.
<maccam94> 700 windows xp machines with one sys admin is a recipe for disaster
<cbx33> maccam94, totally agree with you
<sbalneav> 700 machines with one admin?  Yikes.
<maccam94> yeah
<sbalneav> The standard metric is one MCSE per 30-40 machines.
<maccam94> sometimes he gets extra network people in to help set up new equipment
<sbalneav> so they should have like a staff of 15 at least.
<maccam94> but he's the only guy who manages things full time really
<maccam94> it's a public high school
<maccam94> there's no way that's in the budget ;-)
<maccam94> I bet that setting up edubuntu would make life much easier for the guy. he'd be able to automate almost everything, and security would no longer be a major issue
<maccam94> just set up all the student accounts without wheel priveliges
<maccam94> hmmm... actually maybe setting up /etc to be on the server wouldn't be a bad idea either...
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi guys
<cbx33> howz it going
<LaserJock> good, got another MOTU School session in 10 min.
<cbx33> eeek
<pygi> LaserJock, what are we learning today? :)
<LaserJock> packaging basics
<Amaranth> i should totally go to that one
<Amaranth> LaserJock: it's not going to be 3 hours long, is it?
<Amaranth> the last MOTU School session i attended was _long_
<LaserJock> it was 2 hr last night :/
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* jsgotangco yawns
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: hehe, coming to another session? ;-)
* ogra smiles
<ogra> sbalneav, got it running
<ogra> with a 15 line server sided shellscript ;)
<ogra> executed from the udev script :)
<Amaranth> ogra: what package should i steal from to figure out how to create an /etc/willowng/training.db file but not overwrite it on upgrade?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> make it a conffile ?
<Amaranth> won't it ask on every upgrade if you want to keep your version?
<ogra> it wont be touched by the package then, but you cant change the contents of it in the package, if both files changed, then the user gets a prompt on upgrades
<Amaranth> and show a worthless binary diff
<ogra> no, it will only ask if both chnaged
<Amaranth> ok
<ogra> (at least it should)
<Amaranth> so if i preload a training.db with good/bad domains and content, add /etc/willowng/training.db to debian/conffiles, and never change training.db in the package again, they won't be bothered about it on upgrade if they add more training on their own?
<Amaranth> after that i can use postinst scripts to add things to the DB without killing it
<ogra> yep
<Amaranth> awesome
<ogra> but you cant change it in the package anymore
<Amaranth> not even with a script that uses sqlite in postinst?
<ogra> postinst should be fine
<Amaranth> i think i'm going to have an "update-database" script that reads a file and does it's magic
<ogra> sounds good
<Amaranth> i'll just have to work a little extra magic to make sure i don't overtrain the classifier if someone does a bunch of reinstalls
<sbalneav> ogra: back from lunch
<sbalneav> tarball me your stuff, when you get a moment!
<ogra> will do
<sbalneav> That way I can play with it tonight
<ogra> its not perfect yet 
<ogra> but its basically working
<sbalneav> Well, all we need is a little spit-n-polish.
<sbalneav> we can iron that out this weekend.
<ogra> that we have ot have DISPLAY set for ltspfs is somewhat disturbing 
<ogra> and i cant convince ltspfsd to do the mounting 
<sbalneav> ogra: well, we can fix that.
<ogra> i still need the mount command 
<ogra> is there any special magic i'm missing ?
<ogra> (i'm not using /tmp/fstab btw)
<sbalneav> prolly.  You need an /sbin/ltspfs_[u] mount script
<ogra> oh, on the client ? 
<sbalneav> *_mount looks like:
<sbalneav> #!/bin/sh
<sbalneav> /bin/mount $1
<sbalneav> yep
<ogra> heh
<ogra> and umount is the same i guess
<sbalneav> I'll leave it to your imagination what the umount is :)
<ogra> do you need the -l flag ? 
<sbalneav> no, don't need it.
<ogra> ok
<sbalneav> because ltspfs detects when theres no activty, and does a clean unmount.
<sbalneav> it's a beautiful thing.
<ogra> i wonder how we shoud handle device labels with spaces
<ogra> hmm
<sbalneav> there's a DEVICE_LABEL_SAFE tag that udev creates... hold on... I'll tell you what it is
<ogra> i have that scripts
<ogra> hehe
<sbalneav> ID_FS_LABEL_SAFE
<ogra> i copied ltspfs_mount from the wiki ... indeed it uses /tmp/fstab :)
<sbalneav> see, we wuz so smart we thought this all out already :)
<sbalneav> we just FORGOT we solved this problem :)
<ogra> WOW
<ogra> IT WORKS !!
<sbalneav> we're good.
<ogra> youre good !
<sbalneav> pshaw
<sbalneav> See?  Didn't I say this was gonna be easy? :)
<sbalneav> ssh -S for the win!
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> See the whole lbus thing for us is there because other than the xdmcp connection, we've got no stateful connection between the terminal and the server.
<sbalneav> So, we'd either have had to come up with something that used properties and xatoms, (which would have been more "proper", but way grosser)...
<sbalneav> OR come up with our own little diddly bit, until network aware dbus comes along.
<sbalneav> lbus is our diddly bit.
<sbalneav> YOU don't need it because you've already GOT the stateful connection: the ssh tunnel.
<sbalneav> it's perfect.
<ogra> ha
<ogra> and it unmounts correctly now :)
<ogra> perfect
<ogra> now how to trick nautilus to have a bookmark and the right icon ...
<ogra> sadly ~/gtk-bookmars doesnt accept .desktop files 
<ogra> *bookmarks
<sbalneav> What was the bug we came up with in Nautilus that we needed to get fixed... I think we documented it on the localdev spec....
* sbalneav launchpads
<ogra> its not for us ...
<ogra> that wuld require that we have write access to /media and g-v-m recognizes it as a real device
<ogra> we'll have to mount it anywhere else :/
<ogra> or to rebuild pmount
<sbalneav> When's the next motu-school?  I should attend
<sbalneav> ogra: still there?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: did you catch any of that session?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: I sure did, thanks!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: cool
<sbalneav> ogra: Heading home for the day.  Please remember to email me toys!!!!
<sbalneav> bye all
<pygi> ogra, what would you say if all cdrecord-enabled applications would work without having cdrecord installed? :)
#edubuntu 2006-08-12
<bddebian> Hello
<mhz> hi all
<bddebian> Hello mhz
<mhz> bddebian: hi there
<sbalneav> Evening all
<bddebian> Heya sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey there bddebian!
<nixternal> i apologize for the earlier join/part floods
<nixternal> they were not me by any means
<EmxBA> pygi: hi! I haven't seen you for a lot! 
<pygi> EmxBA, eh
<EmxBA> what's up in CRO?
<pygi> rain :P
<EmxBA> heh :D
<EmxBA> and the sea? lots of tourists, I suppose ;)
<pygi> eh :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<EmxBA> Fujitsu: hi! 
<Fujitsu> Hi EmxBA.
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<bddebian> Hello
<sbalneav> mornning bddebian 
<bddebian> Morning sbalneav
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> ping Yagisan 
<Yagisan> pong cbx33 
<cbx33> can we pop over to pm?
<cbx33> you have a sore min?
<cbx33> spare
<Yagisan> sorta. pm anyway
<hlabs> any one know if there is an IE clone for edubuntu
<cbx33> IE as in internet explorer?
<hlabs> yeah
<cbx33> hlabs, firefox
<hlabs> well some sites say that you need to have ie only 
<cbx33> those sites are non-compliant
<cbx33> give me an example?
<hlabs> www.jang.com.pk
<hlabs> this site doesnt load up on my edubuntu
<hlabs> says need IE
<cbx33> loads fine here
<cbx33> infirefox
<cbx33> and epiphany
<hlabs> i need help in installing gnucash
<hlabs> please help
<lucasvo> hlabs: what's the matter?
<lucasvo> hlabs: it loads in my firefox
<hlabs> yeah i solved that issue
<hlabs> i need to install gnucash now
<lucasvo> hlabs: System -> Administration -> Synaptic package manager
<lucasvo> !repositories
<ubotu> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. See http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and !easysource
<lucasvo> hlabs: do this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu#head-5bbef89639d9a7d93fe38f6356dc17847d373096
<hlabs> i got gnucash installed via the repo
<hlabs> but its not being listed in the applications menu
<lucasvo> hlabs: press alt-f2
<lucasvo> hlabs: and then enter gnucash
<hlabs> thanks man it works now
<hlabs> but why isnt it listed in my apps menu
<lucasvo> hlabs: because it's a bad installer
<lucasvo> hlabs: to add it:
<lucasvo> !alacarte
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about alacarte - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<lucasvo> hlabs: right-click on Applications
<lucasvo> ->Edit Menus
<lucasvo> Choose a submenu
<lucasvo> and then click on New Item
<hlabs> then
<lucasvo> Enter Name: Gnucash, Comment: as you like and COmmand: Gnucash
<lucasvo> then if you want you can choose an icon
<lucasvo> and press ok and then close the programm
<lucasvo> it should be in the menu now
<lucasvo> hlabs: worked?
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> howz it going?
<LaserJock> good
<hlabs> yup worked well
<hlabs> thanks man
<LaserJock> cbx33: I went to a department BBQ yesterday, I was talking with one of the guys in another lab and he said they all use Ubuntu :-)
<cbx33> heheh Wow cool
<cbx33> that gives you more of an arguemnt 
<LaserJock> he wants me to make a custom CD for them
<cbx33> nice
<LaserJock> yeah, it is because they are all Windows people
<LaserJock> but they don't have money to do all the licensing for the whole lab
<LaserJock> so they want a Linux distro that "Just Works"
<LaserJock> and he said that Ubuntu is the first one that he thought could do that
<cbx33> excellent
<LaserJock> yeah, and they even use all those Science apps I work on ;-)
<LaserJock> I'm glad there is somebody on the planet that cares ;-)
<cbx33> coool
<cbx33> LaserJock, that;s great news
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
<cbx33> restructure and added more :S
<lucasvo> cbx33: why don't you export them to ogg?
<cbx33> lucasvo, ok then, just for you :p
<LaserJock> hehe, probably because I had him make some mp3s ;-)
<lucasvo> cbx33: well if you work wiht opensource software, why not use opensource formates?
<cbx33> that was it actaully
<LaserJock> lucasvo: cause he was showing me some stuff and I've got a mac and couldn't figure out how to get .ogg easily :/
<lucasvo> well, one's not supposed to hava a mac
<LaserJock> no?
<LaserJock> :-)
<lucasvo> at least not OSX
<LaserJock> I work on OS X like 12hrs a day
<LaserJock> oh well :-)
<LaserJock> cbx33: dude, Christmas login sound :-)
<LaserJock> I want Sample11 in a few months
<lucasvo> cbx33: I'd like to have some drums in it
<lucasvo> cbx33: like the current one
<cbx33> oi....
<cbx33> ok this makes no sense
<cbx33> LaserJock, does this make sense to you
<cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/128179
<LaserJock> I don't think I've seen that before
<cbx33> that my friend is a bug
#edubuntu 2006-08-13
<gregmon-pterando> hello
<LaserJock> hello
<gregmon-pterando> I am committing one of my boxes to an ubuntu project.   Trying to decide between edubuntu and kubuntu.  Have a child...
<gregmon-pterando> ... whom we sometimes let browse the internet using a nanny software system to keep him to a set of 6-8 sites.
<gregmon-pterando> So the Q is to what extent is edubuntu for kids themselves, per se, versus literal "educators" per se.
<Burgundavia> it is for both
<gregmon-pterando> and then is there any log-in process (as I know Knoppix's KDE has) that could let me restrict other things he does
<Burgundavia> it can function very well in both settings
<Burgundavia> you want a kiosk mode?
<cafuego> gregmon-pterando: You cna easily enough add/remove appropriate software though. If you need website access control, you might need to run a proxy with a filter on top...
<gregmon-pterando> (Not that computer literate) but perhaps.
<gregmon-pterando> k
<LaserJock> gregmon-pterando: is it mostly you using the computer or your child?
<gregmon-pterando> I've got one box that is 95% me alone, 5% the kid + me;    plus I'm considering putting on the laptop he uses the other ratio around.
<LaserJock> and are you partial to a particular desktop environment like gnome or kde?
<gregmon-pterando> KDE.
<LaserJock> I'd probably go Kubuntu + educational apps for yours
<gregmon-pterando> Also, I have a question about sudo passwd.  Does this always work-- meaning that anyone can make up a new root password every hour?  
<LaserJock> and Edubuntu for his
<gregmon-pterando> k
<gregmon-pterando> k
<LaserJock> you can create a user that doesn't have sudo access
<gregmon-pterando> cool.  That's what I want.  I'm also thinking bout as the kid gets older and dodgy friends come over to the house.
<LaserJock> yeah, KDE has a kiosk tool that would allow you to lock down you childs desktop
<gregmon-pterando> Still have 3:15:02 before my data backup is done, so just doing some last minute reading before committing.  
<gregmon-pterando> Can you say the name of it? (I'll look and see if it's on this other KDE knoppix box I'm running).
<LaserJock> kiosktool or kiosk-tool I think
<LaserJock> :-)
<Burgundavia> gnome has pessulus and sabayon
<Burgundavia> both are available in dapper
<Burgundavia> with sabayon you could create a profile with your child and then lock it down
<gregmon-pterando> Isn't sabayon an RR4 distro?  
<Burgundavia> it is also that
<LaserJock> sabayon seems really nice for Edubuntu
<gregmon-pterando> k.   I'm anticipating that as Vista rolls around, I may have to have a word with the wifey about moving son to (*)ubuntu insteaad of upgrading, 'less she wants to pay. :)
<pc22> is there anyone who's using microsft money on linux?
<LaserJock> pc22: ?
<pc22> finance software like gnucash
<LaserJock> yeah, I was just trying to figure out the relation to Edubuntu ;-)
<gregmon-pterando> I'm impressed it has blender.  Know of anyone teaching kids with it, per se?
<pc22> cos im using edubuntu
<pc22> i dont know how?
<EmxBA> juliux: can i get telnet access to your server?
<juliux> EmxBA, no
<EmxBA> why? 
<EmxBA> i need that for a wikibot
<juliux> EmxBA, because telnet is unsecur
<juliux> e
<EmxBA> thatis 
<EmxBA> maybe ssh?
<EmxBA> not telnet, ssh, juliux
<juliux> EmxBA, no
<juliux> EmxBA, no ssh no telnet
<juliux> EmxBA, nobody get an shell account on my server
<EmxBA> why? i am asking you nicely
<EmxBA> :(
<juliux> EmxBA, securit
<juliux> y
<juliux> EmxBA, the only ssh account is my account i know that i dont use any exploids
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> anyway, thanks :)
<bddebian> Morning
<sbalneav> morning all
<heu_mahn> hello
<heu_mahn> i'm seeing several users here but no messages
<cbx333> hi all
<juliux> hi cbx33 
<EmxBA> hi
<cliebow> hello
<EmxBA> :D
<cbx33> ping Yagisan
<Yagisan> pong cbx33 
<cbx33> how did it go?
<Yagisan> cbx33, I think the exam went well. Won't know the results for 3 week
<Yagisan> s
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> brb
<lecaros> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day lecaros 
<lecaros> how's everything?
<Yagisan> busy. did an exam this morning, 2 assignments due by friday
<Yagisan> need to got out and spruck my business a bit more to this week
<Yagisan> lecaros, yourself ?
<lecaros> humm, i'm very busy too
<lecaros> working with mhz, my classes at Univ., my other job... 
<lecaros> and your health? what about your red dots?
<Yagisan> lecaros, less red dots at the moment, but it is confirmed neurological (brain) problem
<Yagisan> woot. I'm defective ;)
<lecaros> oops 
<crimsun> Yagisan: sorry, I've not had a chance to look at the attachment yet
<lecaros> jaja, a lot of us are :)
<Yagisan> crimsun, np. I've been stalling the user with busy stories
#edubuntu 2007-08-06
<LaserJock> RichEd: you awake this late?
<nextse7en> I need some help configuring ltsp, anyone availibe?
<Burgundavia> nextse7en: what is your question?
<RichEd> hey corey
<RichEd> ogra: oing
<RichEd> ping rather
<Burgundavia> hey RichEd
<RichEd> Burgundavia: kak weather in cape town at the moment ... no rush to get here for your vac :)
<Burgundavia> heh
<RichEd> ogra: ping
<JonNoob> Hi. does anybody have experience with sadms? I am trying to integrate my Edubuntu feisty with my win2003 Active directory....
<menoz> hi all! I've just installed edubuntu 7.04 couse I wanted to experiment LTSP services
<JonNoob> Please help me. I really need to integrate my Edubuntu feisty server into my active directory. Does anybody here have a working setup???
<menoz> everything seems working (audio, client's cdrom, client's local HDD)
<menoz> but I've got problems with usb pens: If I attach them to a client, nothing happens! But if I attach a usb pen on the server, it behaves correctly and an icon appears on all the clients.
<menoz> Can somebody please help me? It is very very strange that on a fresh edubuntu installation everything seems working (floppies are untested) except from usb pens on clients!
<JonNoob> menoz you have to go into system-administration-Users and groups. Choose properties for your user. under the tab "User Privileges" chech "Allow use of fuse file..."
<cliebow_> menoz:those usb sticks are partitioned?
<JonNoob> You might need to logoff and logon again for thew change to work
<menoz>   JonNoob: already done it (cdroms works)
<menoz>  cliebow: yep, vfat
<JonNoob> ok.. Then I have no idea... Good luck
<menoz> cliebow_: and another one is ext3
<cliebow_> hang a sec
<menoz> yeah,sure
<cliebow_> i cant find the reference i want..but some usb sticks come unpartitioned..even if they are formatted.
<menoz> well ok, but if I attache the stick on the server, everything works
<menoz> and an icon appears on every client's desktop
<cliebow_> when sbalneav comes in..we'll check that his twelve step troubleshooting is still current for feisty..
<cliebow_> #
<cliebow_> # Partitioned USB memory sticks. Unpartitioned sticks are not supported.
<cliebow_> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev#Overview
<JonNoob> anybody have integrated edubuntu feisty server with win2003 active directory with success????
<cliebow_> JonNoob, i thoink there is a wiki page on this..i use winbind for a nimber of years in fedora..
<JonNoob> With winbind you administrate the users on the win server?
<cliebow_> no..but authentication on terminals was done thru winbind to ad
<JonNoob> No!! Hmm. does that mean i have to administrate the users on linux and windows???
<cliebow_> no..any user in ad could login to a linux terminal
<JonNoob> ok... what about home directorys? Does that work?
<cliebow_> i used pam_mount for that..my old notes are at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WinIntegration
<JonNoob> Thanks alot. I will look into that...
<cliebow_> i am sure there is a wikipage in ubuntu for this..i hosed a hard drive so dont have me old bookmarks..
<JonNoob> ok.. I am searching
<JonNoob> Is it this one you are thinking about? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ActiveDirectoryWinbindHowto?highlight=%28winbind%29
<cliebow_> JohanSalim, i am unsure..seems ok..you might holler in #ltsp  as well
<cliebow_> JonN00b, i am unsure..seems ok..you might holler in #ltsp  as well
<menoz>  cliebow_: the stick is partitioned (data is inside), and when I attach it to the server the client can read/write files in it.
<cliebow_> Gadi is in #ltsp ..he is wicked savvy
<JonNoob> ok
<cliebow_> menoz:best we can do is hope Scottie pops in..
<menoz> cliebow_: i've looked to the troubleshooting,but it's for 4.2 version of ltsp
<menoz> ok
<moquist> ogra: moodle package is progressing: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6347
<menoz> cliebow_:following the throubleshooting guide I saw that client has the same name of the server - this could be a problem
<menoz> is it possible to read fuse logs somewhere?
<LaserJock> RichEd: around?
<menoz> I mean, sorry, in the edubuntu filesystem.. I cannot find them anywhere, and maybe they have to be activated..
<LaserJock> menoz: in general, logs are in /var/log/ but I wouldn't imagine that fuse would log by default
<menoz> so I sould activate them through /etc/fuse.conf?
<RichEd> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> menoz: that I don't know
<menoz> ok thanks anyway!!
<LaserJock> menoz: you might try #ltsp too
<LaserJock> ogra should know though, if he's up
<moquist> LaserJock: moodle package is progressing: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6347
<LaserJock> moquist: hi!
<moquist> LaserJock: and hi. :)
<menoz> ogra: Hi, do you know how to turn on fuse logs?And/or where to find them in the edubuntu filesystem?
<LaserJock> moquist: you might have a look at the warning in the linda file. The lintian ones you can ignore (it doesn't know about Ubuntu)
<moquist> LaserJock: that's gotta be present for the moodle package that's already in universe; I haven't touched anything but the package scripts
<moquist> LaserJock: does that need to be fixed before this can go into main?
<LaserJock> moquist: no, it's just a warning, it's really something the Debian maintainer should look at
<LaserJock> moquist: it's complaining that it thinks default.ttf is a common font that already exists
<LaserJock> but it could be a false positive because I imagine there are many default.ttf fonts ;-)
<stgraber> LaserJock: not that much, apt-file says two others (in smc-data and fretsonfire-game)
<stgraber> btw, hi there
<moquist> LaserJock: right.
<LaserJock> hi stgraber
<stgraber> screen -x
<stgraber> oops
<stgraber> (forgot that this launcher do the screen -x as well :))
<LaserJock> RichEd, et al: The new Gutsy daily Server Addon CD has a new installer menu
<LaserJock> I'd appreciate feedback on it if possible
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<cliebow_> Scottie!!!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<sbalneav> Hey cliebow
<LaserJock> sbalneav: do you know if fuse logs to anywhere?
<RichEd> LaserJock: I need to sort out a machine to test ... any chance of screenshots in the meanwhile ?
<RichEd> hi sbalneav & cliebow
<cliebow_> HeyHey!
<sbalneav> hey
<LaserJock> RichEd: I can probably do some
<sbalneav> ogra: Aboot?
<cliebow_> sbalneav:id like to try out latest ldm..an ltsp-build-client will do it/
<RichEd> LaserJock: I've just rescued an old notebook ... hopefully can partition it soon for dual boot ... and testing
<ogra> sbalneav, not really
<sbalneav> :(
<LaserJock> ogra: did Edubuntu follow the human-theme changes from Ubuntu?
<sbalneav> I started glib-ing ldm on the weekend.
<LaserJock> for some reason when I dist-upgraded to gutsy edubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop won't co-exist peacefully
<ogra> LaserJock, i assume so
<LaserJock> edubuntu-artwork took out ubuntu-desktop
<ogra> the changes should have been merged by whoever made the change in ubuntu
<ogra> i'll check that
<LaserJock> ah, I found it
<LaserJock> ubuntu-artwork deps on human-theme
<LaserJock> edubuntu-artwork deps on human-cursor-theme
<cliebow_> ahh
<ogra> sbalneav, your ltsp-build-client bug: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-August/005866.html
<LaserJock> ogra: I can fix edubuntu-artwork if you don't mind
<sbalneav> Ah, yeah, saw something about a /dev/pts
<ogra> that'd be cool
<sbalneav> I'm building now.
<sbalneav> Are you in the process of getting a tribe cd together?
<ogra> sbalneav, not sure thats in the archive yet
<ogra> yes
<sbalneav> Did you merge my changes to jetpipe?
<ogra> i think they were in the last merge, yes
<LaserJock> ogra: human-theme conflicts/replaces human-cursors-theme, we just need to switch the deps
<ogra> LaserJock, ok, cool
<cliebow_> ldm 5.0.22 is latest isnt it..
<ogra> yep
<ogra> " * Touched up jetpipe a bit: don't keep remaking socket"
<sbalneav> Have you done a sync from my tree since a couple of days ago?
<ogra> sbalneav, ^^^
<sbalneav> Perfect.
<ogra> thats from 5.0.22 changelog
<cliebow_> i see it..
<menoz> sorry all: is scottie in? I've some open issues...
<ogra>  /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server-standalone/changelog.gz btw :P
<sbalneav> menoz: Me?
<cliebow_> sbalneav: the twelve step from 4.2 for usb is still ok to use?
<cliebow_> or no
<sbalneav> No, not at all.
<sbalneav> Completely different in ltsp5
<menoz> sbalneav: yeah! cliebow_ told me about you.. Because we were discussing about some strange problem I have on a fresh edubuntu installation, and he told me to ask you...
<moquist> isn't it just one step now? "Add users to fuse group"
<sbalneav> Well, I really should have a debugging document, just in case.
<sbalneav> But I haven't had time.
<sbalneav> menoz: Well, ask away.
<cliebow_> anyway..this gent has trouble with usb sticks..but cdroms work fine..his sticks are partitioned
<menoz> I've just installed edubuntu 7.04 couse I wanted to experiment LTSP services.
<menoz>  everything seems working (audio, client's cdrom, client's local HDD)
<menoz>  but I've got problems with usb pens: If I attach them to a client, nothing happens! But if I attach a usb pen on the server, it behaves correctly and an icon appears on all the clients.
<menoz> and this is a fresh edubuntu installation; I've only added users to fuse group.
<moquist> menoz: If you enable local logins on the TCs, you can switch to TTY1 and watch /etc/fstab and logs in /var/log (IIRC) to see what's going on.
<sbalneav> Yes, I'd start there first.
<sbalneav> chroot /optl/ltsp/i386
<ogra> smells like a broken partition table on the sticks ...
* moquist should just let menoz continue, but couldn't resist posting the above in case it's the Right Answer
<menoz> nothing gets logged when I attach the usb dongle on the client
<sbalneav> set a root password.
<sbalneav> then control-alt-f1
<sbalneav> log in as root
<cliebow_> mpquist:yessir Matt..Im a fishjing for the answer too 8~)
<sbalneav> then check with dmesg, see if the clien't seeing the plug event.
<menoz> ogra: if I attach the stick in the server, clients can read/write them. And I tried bot vfat and ext3 formatted sticks
<sbalneav> aaargh, the apt change hasn't made it to the archives yet :(
<ogra> sbalneav, its in since 1h, wait another one
<cliebow_> k
<moquist> ogra: exec summary is that the moodle package is working for mysql (I believe) and I need to add postgresql support.
<LaserJock> ogra: heh, is edubuntu-artwork ever going to get out of 0.1.0? :-)
<ogra> moquist, postgres is a bit special, you can simply su to postmaster, talk to pitti about that
<ogra> LaserJock, with gutsy i hope
<menoz> sbalneav:ok,just a few minutes..
<ogra> i want to fix that after UVF
<moquist> LaserJock, ogra: what's the relevant freeze date about which I need to be concerned for the moodle package?
<ogra> moquist, UVF would be nice
<LaserJock> which is the 16th
<ogra> right
<ogra> we'll need some time for testing and bugfixing
<moquist> acronym2english("UVF");
<ogra> upstream version freeze
<LaserJock> print "Upstream Version Freeze"
<ogra> see the release schedule
<moquist> Yeah, the way that package works is pretty limited by default. It only provides for localhost access to Moodle. Is that what we want?
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
* moquist sees the release schedule
<LaserJock> is it easy to change the access?
<moquist> mmmmmmm....
<LaserJock> I would think keeping to to localhost by default would be saner
<moquist> yes/no
<ogra> it should use whatever debconf provides it ...
<moquist> it would involve more substantial and controversial changes to the upstream package
<ogra> and the debconf default should be localhost
<LaserJock> moquist: ok, so if you install from the upstream tarball it's limited to localhost by default?
<moquist> I have high hopes that the Debian maintainer will take in the change away from wwwconfig, but a change that modifies security-relevant stuff would definitely not be as easy to sell.
<moquist> LaserJock: Yeah, and Moodle is configured to link to itself as http://localhost/moodle/
<ogra> isnt that set in config.php ?
<ogra> (which is generated by the postinst afaik)
<moquist> That's not bad, especially if we clearly document how to open it up.
<moquist> ogra: Exactly. not a big deal; I haven't carefully looked at the apache part of the configuration to see if config.php is all that would need to change.
<ogra> in any case the DB server should be configurable
<ogra> for round robin setups etc you will need that
<moquist> what does "configurable" mean? anything different than what the package already does?
<ogra> being able top specify a different server than localhost for the backend
<moquist> FWIW, it looks to me like you have to have mysql-server or posgresql already installed for the moodle package to install correctly.
<ogra> (which the current package offers i think)
<moquist> ogra: ah, yes. that is supported.
<ogra> yeah, thats bad as well ... but nothing i'm concerned about atm
<ogra> we can make that a recommends
<ogra> so you dont need to carry around the extra weight
* ogra has to go afk for a mom
<menoz> sbalneav: ok, if I attach the pen nothing happens, even on logs; nothing gets written. However, I tried to launch this command: mount -t vfat /dev/sdb /var/run/drives/mydir (mydir is a dir I created), and the pen gets mounted.
<menoz> sbalneav: but nothing happens automatically.
<sbalneav> Then something in the udev rules doesn't like that pern.
<sbalneav> Have you tried other pens?
<menoz> yep, 2 pens
<menoz> one VFAT and one EXT3
<yeipi> Hi sbalneav :)
<menoz> note that
<sbalneav> Well, nothing's changed in the udev rules lately.
<sbalneav> Hello yeipi
<menoz> the same I got the same behaviour with debian etch and ltsp 5
<yeipi> sbalneav: did you read my email? jpincheira
<menoz> sbalneav: so you say the problem is udev ?
<sbalneav> yeipi: Yes, I got your email, but I haven't had any time to look at a smaller kernel for you at all, as I've been desperately busy to finish ldm for the Upstream Version Freeze on Aug 16.
<sbalneav> menoz: yes.  The ltsp rules in /etc/udev/rules.d are what trigger things.
<yeipi> sbalneav: oh ok dude! no problem. hope you finish that in time. :) thanks, anyway.
<menoz> sbalneav: will be possible to solve this problem adding a specific line in the chroot's fstab ?
<sbalneav> yeipi: I'll get to it eventually, and send you a howto.
<sbalneav> menoz: no
<menoz> sbalneav: I mean, a static line like "/dev/sdb /mountpoint .... "
<sbalneav> That would be very bad.
<yeipi> sbalneav: that would be nice. Thanks for still consider it.
<sbalneav> You need to find out why your stick isn't being picked up by udev.
<ogra> sbalneav, see how he mounts it above ;)
<matte_> sbalneav, is it possibile create a /bin/bash script that write a /etc/fstab line?
<ogra> its not partitioned at all
<ogra> menoz, partition it properly
<cliebow_> good grief!!!
<menoz> ogra: ? there's data inside..
<ogra> copy it away, partition and for mat that thing and copy it back :)
<ogra> *format
<matte_> ogra, already do that so much time
<matte_> times*
<ogra> matte_, /dev/sdb is *no* partition
<menoz> (menoz and matte_ work together )
<ogra> i guessed so :)
<sbalneav> Well, try that and see.
<sbalneav> copy off you're data
<sbalneav> fdisk /dev/sdb
<sbalneav> create a partition table
<sbalneav> create a /dev/sdb1 vfat part
<sbalneav> format
<sbalneav> copy back on data
<sbalneav> see if that works
<matte_> create a new empty DOS partition table
<matte_> that?
<ogra> (do all that on the server ;) )
<sbalneav> yeah, on the server
<ogra> and use cfdisk, its a bit more userfriendly
<sbalneav> heh, never tried that one, I always use the old, unfriendly one.
<moquist> cfdisk is good.
<menoz> so is it possible to have working non-partitioned usb pens?
<moquist> I haven't used it for years, but it is more careful than fdisk in ways that I remember being good.
<ogra> menoz, obvoisly not ...
<ogra> lets call that a bug :)
<cliebow_> hmmm:ltsp-build-client is borking
<menoz> ok, one thing: this pen is mounted as SDA on th server, and sdb on the client
<ogra> menoz, that doesnt matter
<LaserJock> menoz: that's why you don't want a static line in fstab
<ogra> cliebow_, with an openpty() error ?
<sbalneav> cliebow_: Welcome to my weekend :)
<cliebow_> no..on unpacking libxdmcp..tried it twice
<cliebow_> heh!!
<LaserJock> ogra: human-theme is going to install the human gtk theme and icons as well, is that an issue?
<sbalneav> cliebow_: Look up about 10 lines:
<sbalneav> You'll see a:
<cliebow_> yeah openpty failed is above
<ogra> icons might become a size issue
<menoz> yeah, you wizards!
<sbalneav> Extracting templates from packages: 100%
<sbalneav> Preconfiguring packages ...
<sbalneav> FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.22-9-generic/modules.dep: No such file or directory
<sbalneav> openpty failed
<sbalneav> Error in select()
<menoz> it works
<cliebow_> yep..
<ogra> cliebow_, so wait until new apt is in
<cliebow_> k
<cliebow_> hour or two then..
<ogra> rigth
<cliebow_> 8~)
* sbalneav bounces up and down on his hands.  Anxiously awaiting new apt.
<cliebow_> careful there..
<sbalneav> brb
<menoz> cliebow_: ok, one other question: is it possible that someone, let's say a pupil, has a non-partitioned pen? I mean: what pens are non-partitioned?
<cliebow_> i am unsure which are..
<cliebow_> without doing an fdisk
<menoz> cliebow_: maybe only older one are non-partitioned?
<cliebow_> i am unsure which are..
<menoz> how many pens, let's say over 100, are non-partitioned? A few one? Most of them?
<LaserJock> I'm guessing they can "become" unpartitioned too
<LaserJock> if kids mess around with them
<menoz> is there any plan to support even non-partitioned pens?
<cliebow_> i assume there is a technical reason they are not
<cliebow_> if Scottie cant do it....
<LaserJock> I think it's kinda hard to support a disk that is not partitioned
<menoz> ok but the main ltsp server read that pen, even before it was partitioned...
<LaserJock> I guess the best thing that could be done is to offer to wipe it out and partition it for you, but I think it's a bit of a corner case
<menoz> yep..
<sbalneav> menoz: We don't have hal integrated into ltsp yet, so not all device handling is as nice as we'd like it.
<cliebow_> thanks
<menoz> ok!
<menoz> is its integration planned?
<sbalneav> Possibly.  We have to see what impact on performance it will have.
<sbalneav> We have to deal with a lot of low end clients, and we constantly have to straddle the line between performance and functionality.
<menoz> ok; anyway, I think usb sticks (nowadays) are fare more important than, say, cdroms or floppies... So happy coding! But remember that this work you already done is fantastic, especially here in edubuntu where everything is well-integrated!
<menoz> Thank you very much :)
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, edubuntu-artwork uploaded. I'm guessing it'll take up a bit more space as it adds in the human icons
<matte_> thank you! CU
<sbalneav> WHOOHOO NEW APT!!
* sbalneav updates
<LaserJock> heh
<sbalneav> WHOOHOO IT WORKS
* sbalneav gives ogra a big man hug
<cottima> hello
<sbalneav> Hello
<cottima> I am looking at a fix for cpqarray.o (raid for compaq), but I do not want to waste another disc if I do it wrong.  is there a way to test the disc without burning it?
<cottima> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=432175&highlight=cpqarray.o
<cottima> I have cd-rw but there are only 650MB.
<cottima> could I use a netinstall or boot disc?
<sbalneav> If they're rw, you're not wasting the disk, you can just erase it :)
<cottima> sbalneav, I would use them, but they are only 650MB.  Isn't the iso 700MB?
<sbalneav> yes.
<sbalneav> I think so.
<cottima> one sec
<cottima> sbalneav on the disc is the install folder.  I am going to check it out.
<cottima> sbalneav  I guess if I waste a disc not doing something right, I waste a disc.  I just wish ubuntu had a netinstall disc like debian.
<sbalneav> I beleive it does
<sbalneav> I've just never used it :)
<cottima> really where?
<cottima> on the disc?
<sbalneav> Dunno.
<sbalneav> Like I say, I haven't used it, but I've read of others doing it.
<LaserJock> cottima: you can download it, me get you the url
<cottima> Please
<LaserJock> cottima: well, I'm having a hard time finding it
<LaserJock> cottima: I know they were around somewhere
<moquist> cottima: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/LocalNet
<moquist> cottima: that page also mentions that if you look in install/netboot on an Ubuntu install CD you'll find the over-the-Internet installer
<moquist> er, if it doesn't mention that, it should. and it's a wiki. *hint, hint*
<sbalneav> yeipi: Well, even after hacking out the usplash art, and a bunch of kernel modules, I still can't get it to boot in 16 megs of ram.
<sbalneav> 32 works fine.
<yeipi> ok sbalneav !!
<yeipi> thank you dude :)
<LaserJock> cottima: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
<LaserJock> the mini.iso is what you want I think
<LaserJock> well, for gutsy that is
<yeipi> by ebye guys
<yeipi> bye sbalneav
<yeipi> :)
<cliebow_> WHOA!!
<LaserJock> cliebow_: what?
<cliebow_> well..I got xubuntu login screen on the client..i were expecting ldm..
<cliebow_> sbalneav: should be running ldm by default eh?
<cliebow_> brb
<oogabooga> v
<oogabooga>  /nick
<oogabooga>  ok..i give up...so how come i have an xubuntu splash on the term???
<LaserJock> so is it running gdm?
<oogabooga> i get gdm on the server....
<oogabooga> and standard gdm lok
<oogabooga> and standard gdm look
<oogabooga> xdmcp does not seem running (from netstat)
<JonNoob> hi guys. Need a little assistance... I have a Edubuntu Feisty Server AMD64. I am using thin client in a mixed 100Mbit/Gigabit environment. The problem is my client only will boot sometimes. It seems the problem is NFS which uses UDP protocol. I found a solution to change it to use TCP protocol, but they want me to chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 /bin/bash --login and then cd /etc/mkinitramfs/.... The problem is that there is no directory called thath(mkinitramfs)
<JonNoob> The solution is described here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/TroubleShooting
<thedman> hello everyone
<thedman> I just installed edubuntu in a small private school / 10 clients
<sbalneav> Nice to hear
<thedman> They still need to have the pc's to be able to boot into Windows occasionally, is there an easy way to setup the network so it can get it's dhcp address from the internet router without the edubuntu server trying to answer the dhcp request?
<thedman> Or even better can a Windows client use the dhcp server on the edubuntu server for Internet access?
<sbalneav> Sure
<sbalneav> The windows box will use an edubuntu supplied dhcp address just fine.
<thedman> Okay, I must have something configured wrong then.
<thedman> Just to be clear, the Windows client can get an address from the Edubunu server as well as have internet access through the Edubuntu server as well?
<sbalneav> Well, it depends on your network.
<sbalneav> How many network cards does the server have?
<sbalneav> 2?
<thedman> It has two nics
<thedman> I thought I had everything working at home before I installed, but now it seems even the clients running edubuntu don't have internet access either, some config must have changed.
<thedman> Is it safe to say that if internet access works for the edubuntu clients, it will work for Windows clients as well?  I just need to figure what changed.
<stgraber> thedman: you'll need to set a FORWARD rule in iptables so routing will work for windows clients
<stgraber> by default edubuntu doesn't route traffic from LAN to WAN
<thedman> I see.
<thedman> Is there an easy command for that?  I did not change any ip addresses from the default server install.
<stgraber> Ihave a quick script doing that, just let me paste it somewhere
<stgraber> http://paste.stgraber.org/2376
<stgraber> ^^ assuming that your LAN is 192.168.0.X (I don't recall what the default one is)
<thedman> Thank you, yeah that is the default config
#edubuntu 2007-08-07
<cottima> LaserJock I had to run out for a longer time than I thought.  Thank you for the url!
<LaserJock> cottima: np
<bddebian> Heya
<blazemonger> what kind of software does edubuntu come with? any geometry and trig tuturial software?
<LaserJock> it comes with a variety of educational software (in addition to the regular Ubuntu apps_
<blazemonger> if it has math tutorial software then i am downloading it
<LaserJock> blazemonger: kig is a geometry program, I don't know about tutorial
<blazemonger> i asked the person that runs the computers at the library and asked 'if there is any educational software you would want on the computer systems what would you want?" the lady said 'some phonix software"
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> there are some basics I think
<blazemonger> any programming tutorials?
<LaserJock> there is actually one being developed this summer
<LaserJock> but a Google Summer of Code student
<blazemonger> interesting
<LaserJock> a Python learning application
<blazemonger> you're into lasers?
<blazemonger> i want to learn assembly language on the x86
<LaserJock> blazemonger: yes, I use lasers every day in my research
<blazemonger> interesting..
<blazemonger> my friend that does lasershows at raves told me that there i could make some bank if i develop software that controls lasers
<blazemonger> LaserJock:i know this one persont hat has a handheld 450mw handheld laser
<blazemonger> it's the most alien thingi ve ever seen and it is neat
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> my laser puts out GigaWatt pulses
<blazemonger> holy #(^&^
<LaserJock> although it's not at the right wavelength to do anything "fun"
<blazemonger> LaserJock: i have respect for ANYONE who supports educational software
<blazemonger> it just doesn't seem like there's enough of it
<LaserJock> but it'll blow your eye out if look straight into it :(
<LaserJock> yes, very true
<LaserJock> it's difficult to get educational minded people to get apps written and polished up
<blazemonger> want to know my favorite internet resource? MIT's Open Courseware
<blazemonger> it's like going to college for free
<LaserJock> mhm
<blazemonger> what window manager does edubuntu use?
<LaserJock> Gnome
<blazemonger> one of my friends used to be a total windows freak but now that I've showed him ubuntu and edubuntu he totally despises microsoft
<blazemonger> i gave him a copy of ubuntu and he loves it.
<blazemonger> i have this old dell notebook and ubuntu works wonders ..
<LaserJock> blazemonger: cool
<jsgotangco> fire away the "L-A-Z-E-R"
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: back home?
<jsgotangco> yeah thank goodness
<jsgotangco> just dead tired with the trips
<jsgotangco> managed to write one blog entry of hanoi
<jsgotangco> will probably finish up bangkok entry by tonight
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> do you find it easy traveling to other countries in asia?
<shirish> guys is there a list somewhere, where one can see what educational/edu-gaming packages available other from the Live CD ?
<Burgundavia> shirish: you can check the seeds for a full list
<shirish> Burgundavia:  what is seed? and how do I check seeds?
<shirish> ubotu seeds
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seeds - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Burgundavia> a seed is a list that creates the cds
<shirish> seed = repository or something different?
<Burgundavia> no, seed is a list of packages that end up on the cd
<shirish> Burgundavia: I don't have the live CD of edubuntu atm, what I am doing now is installing edubuntu-desktop on top of my ubuntu-desktop, was wanting to see/know if there was some stuff I can subscribe to know of any new packages/educational-based which one can play around with/install?
<Burgundavia> edubuntu desktop will get you the same thing as is on a live cd
<LaserJock> shirish: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.feisty
<shirish> Burgundavia: right, that is what I was counting now
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> that's not true as of Feisty
<Burgundavia> hey LaserJock
<shirish> LaserJock: what about 7.10?
<LaserJock> shirish: are you on gutsy or feisty?
<shirish> LaserJock: actually on gutsy :)
<LaserJock> shirish: then you're in luck ;-)
<shirish> I wanted to do this long time back, but was held back due to a bug which I had reported, got fixed just yesterday
<shirish> the human-theme not being compatible with edubuntu
<LaserJock> if you get edubuntu-desktop and then look for edubuntu-addon packages you can get all the edu stuf
<LaserJock> shirish: yes, I fixed that today
<LaserJock> shirish: I didn't even see your bug, I just ran into it today
<LaserJock> so I'm glad I was actually able to fix it for somebody else :-)
<shirish> LaserJock: oh it was you, I saw your reply on the bug, it was outstanding for almost a month I guess, otherwise i would have been able to assist edubuntu perhaps a little earlier in the development cycle, as far as testing goes
<shirish> oh well
<LaserJock> yeah, it just got overlooked
<shirish> I didn't know whom to approach, but glad it got fixed, finally :)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Hey, dude!  How do I close bugs under the bugsquad stuff?
<shirish> LaserJock: I am looking at  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.gutsy and while it gives me for e.g. what Martin Pitt did last, it doesn't tell me anything about list of packages or do I need to look somewhere else also ?
<LaserJock> shirish: click on browse code
<nixternal> yo yo homies
<LaserJock> shirish: then click on files up top
<LaserJock> hi nixternal
<LaserJock> sbalneav: hmm, you can't do it yourself?
<sbalneav> Can't SEEM to.
<shirish> LaserJock: cool, btw can anybody tell what is ship-addon, are the guys thinking of having an add-on cd?
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> we already are
<LaserJock> Edubuntu Feisty is on 2 CDs
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what bug?
<shirish> LaserJock: didn't know about that, I saw an edubuntu live CD at a friend's place, I guess it was edubuntu live+server CD or is that a different product?
<LaserJock> it's different
<LaserJock> the Live CD is more for demo'ing
<shirish> LaserJock:  ok cool
<LaserJock> it shows of some of the edu apps, etc.
<sbalneav> #67383
<shirish> right, right
<LaserJock> but the Classroom Server and Classroom Server Addon are the main Edubuntu CDs
<sbalneav> It's been there for a dog's age, no activity, and just the one guy reported it, and never followed up.
<LaserJock> the Feisty Dekstop CD is even quite broken, if you install from it the edu apps don't get installed
<LaserJock> shirish: the Classroom Sever Addon CD will work on Ubuntu too
<shirish> LaserJock: ok cool
<shirish> LaserJock: ok so lemme understand it, the Edubuntu server CD is just a demoing thing
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> the Desktop CD
<LaserJock> which is a LiveCD
<shirish> LaserJock: ok and this is a single CD, right?
<LaserJock> yes
<shirish> ok cool
<LaserJock> as it is a LiveCD
<shirish> ok cool
<LaserJock> it doesn't have LTSP and all the edu apps we have
<shirish> and we have a seperate Edubuntu server and Edubuntu server add-on CD
<LaserJock> but it's good for showing it off and what it looks like
<shirish> understood that point
<LaserJock> the Edubuntu Classroom Server CD can be used to install a LTSP Server, Workstation (regular install), and command line (like Ubuntu Server)
<LaserJock> but since we don't have enough room
<LaserJock> the Edubuntu Classroom Server Addon CD has most of the educational apps
<LaserJock> plus additional lang packs
<LaserJock> and some other "goodies"
<shirish> aha, ok cool
* shirish eyes light up on mention of other goodies
<shirish> LaserJock: and does the repository follow the same notation  like main, restricted, universe, multiverse and commercial or no?
<LaserJock> shirish: they *are* the same repos
<LaserJock> Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Edubuntu *all* come from the same repos
<shirish> LaserJock: right, I was making sure
<LaserJock> sbalneav: so when you click on the little arrow to edit it it doesn't let you?
<shirish> LaserJock: to install or pull from the repos, what meta-package do I need to pull so all the stuff which is on edubuntu-server add-on cd comes?
<LaserJock> look for edubuntu-addon
<shirish> cool, thanx
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Under status, I don't have a "close" option.
<LaserJock> shirish: I just made those meta packages
<shirish> LaserJock: lol, cool cool :)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: there should be "Fixed Released"
<sbalneav> There is.
<sbalneav> Is that "closed"?
<shirish> LaserJock: so it actually means I did stuff on the right time :)
<sbalneav> I haven't released any fix tho' :)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yes, Fix Released and Invalid are closing statues
<LaserJock> shirish: I guess so ;-)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: did the bug just go away? or is there a fix coming?
<shirish> I'm using xfce as my desktop, so would it be a good idea to test them about how the packages behave under xfce, they both share the gtk heritage though so there shouldn't be any huge differences, what do you think?
<LaserJock> shirish: yes, especially since a fair amount of Edubuntu users use xfce
<sbalneav> The bug was never confirmed.  We tried to duplicate it, but it's never ever shown itself, and the original poster's never commented on it.
<LaserJock> shirish: you'll notice we have a edubuntu-addon-light metapackage
<LaserJock> shirish: that installs xfce4
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, so Invalid sounds good
<LaserJock> sbalneav: and you'll probably want to do that for both tasks if it's really gone
<shirish> LaserJock: thats cool to know :)
<LaserJock> we also have a new edubuntu-desktop-kde package for Kubuntu users
<shirish> LaserJock: I do have both WM's i nstalled though but use xfce more than GNOME, so it would be good to do edubuntu-adoon first perhaps & then edubuntu-addon-light
<shirish> just to make sure there aren't any packages/dependencies left to download perhaps?
<LaserJock> shirish: well, you won't need edubuntu-addon-light if you've already got xfce
<LaserJock> shirish: as all it does is install xfce4
<shirish> LaserJock: ah cool, then just need the edubuntu-addon, makes it easier for me :)
<LaserJock> just try the edu apps in both xfce and gnome
<LaserJock> that'd  be a big help
<shirish> LaserJock: will do :)
<shirish> LaserJock: although I do have a bug of things happening in GNOME, I get an xsession-errors file. if somebody can help me diagnose that and/or fix that would do testing in GNOME also
<shirish> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/129315
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129315 in gdm "GNOME-desktop does not lemme log in. " [Medium,Incomplete] 
<shirish> I thought it was due to me installing a font which uses xkb but talking to the developer, it isn't due to that
<LaserJock> sbalneav: did you close that bug?
<sbalneav> not yet.
<sbalneav> one sec
<sbalneav> 15 convos going on at once :)
<sbalneav> ah, yeah, closed
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> thx
<shirish> LaserJock: what is latex & why is it so big on edubuntu, I see it is spread quite wide in edubuntu in various packages
<shirish> ubotu latex
<ubotu> tex is a language for describing a document, commonly used especially for scientific publishing. Information and instructions for installing TeX and other related packages can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LaTeX
<shirish> LaserJock: latex is something like xml ?
<LaserJock> shirish: it's a typesetting language that is very common in academia and the sciences
<LaserJock> well, not exactly
<LaserJock> it's pretty complicated, and very powerful
<LaserJock> and also very huge
<shirish> cool, cool
<LaserJock> shirish: you can google around for it if you want to see some examples
<shirish> LaserJock: doing that actually :P
<LaserJock> it can be very nice for college students in math or science because it's very good at typesetting equations
<sbalneav> TeX and LaTeX are awesome.
<sbalneav> Still got my "Intro to LaTeX" manual by Leslie Lamport.
<sbalneav> Wrote ALL my University papers in it.
<encompass> morning sbalneav
<encompass> I have yet to learn latex
<encompass> Well python won't answer my question... I will try here... I am using restricted python and when running code with it, I get an expected error in the executing... I want to get that output into a variable and print that to a widget on the screen.  How do I best catch that error and not all the extra stuff that restricted python gives.  Take a look here for the error example. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32882/
<zsh> good morning
<zsh> how can I debug my LTSP-system, each client freezes 2 times, each day
<zsh> it is a feisty system
<zsh> could it be, that the nbd-server causes the freeze?
<zsh> how can I deaktivate it?
<zsh> hi
<zsh> a few days ago, I saw a howto to use LTSP without NFS in gutsy, but today I can not find it, can someone help me
<highvoltage> zsh: if I understand correctly, the latest gutsy LTSP will use NBD by default
<stgraber> zsh: Gutsy does by default no longer uses NFS
<stgraber> zsh: the thin client FS is now a squashfs image exported by nbdserver
<stgraber> so swap and FS are now using nbdserver and NFS isn't used anymore
<zsh> ok, I will try this
<stgraber> you may want to wait till Tribe-4 is release (Thursday) so you'll have a tested gutsy CD to play with
<zsh> ok, good idea
<zsh> I will wait
<zsh> with ltsp feisty I have quite a lot freezes on the thinclients, is this a known problem?
<stgraber> ogra, highvoltage: Can one of you two update the topic, URL has changed to iso.qa.stgraber.org and we are going to test Tribe-4 :)
<ogra> right
* mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by ChanServ
<stgraber> zsh: what kind of freeze, network related (only the X session) or the whole thin client
* highvoltage should read the topic more often
<stgraber> zsh: you can test by trying to switch to tty1
<zsh> complete freeze
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | feisty (7.04) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download | Help testing Tribe-4 candidates: https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/Edubuntu !
<ogra> zsh, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS
<zsh> thx
<zsh> oh, I only looked at wiki.ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> ogra: how has ltsp over nbd worked so far? any problems or known issues?
<ogra> zsh, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP has a bunch more
<ogra> highvoltage, round robin failover setups wont work with nbd
<ogra> (i.e. a DNS round robin for the app server)
<highvoltage> ah.
<ogra> and you need to rebuild the squashfs image with ltsp-update-image after you made changes to the chroot
<ogra> beyond that there are no drwabacks or known issues yet
<ogra> using it every day here and sbalneav as well afaik
<highvoltage> the ltsp-update-image is completely reasonable, imho
<ogra> well, it takes a while (about 10 min)
<ogra> so if you developp it gets annoying over time :)
<highvoltage> heh, I can imagine
<ogra> indeed, if sou dont developp anything and can adjust everything through lts.conf there is no need at all for it
<highvoltage> could you ever figure out why NFS was so slow?
<ogra> the big thing with the squashfs image is that you could also use it locally (like a modified liveCD)
<ogra> nope
<ogra> and i was tired of it
<ogra> thats what drove me to finally make the step i wanted to do eternally already :)
<highvoltage> that's what I like about the squashfs method too- it's nice for large deployments with automated ubiquity.
<highvoltage> there's been nfs bugs that gave me big pains in the past, that I couldn't get sorted out. I'm glad that the LTSP world doesn't need it anymore.
<zsh> and perhaps it solves my freeze-problems
<ogra> zsh, freezes are likely ram or video related
<ogra> how much ram do your clients have ?
<zsh> 128mb
<ogra> thats plenty
<zsh> vxl thinclients, if somebody knows them
<zsh> via systems
<zsh> how can I use the "switch host" feature
<zsh> I have installed gutsy ltsp now
<ogra> not at all yet :)
<zsh> it would be nice if I could redirect to my feisty setup
<zsh> ok :(
<ogra> the code was merged yesterday only and the archive is in freeeze for the tribe4 CD
<ogra> it will go in after the tribe release
<zsh> hmm, ok
<zsh> is a dirty hack available?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> the new ldm doesnt allow dirty hacks anymore ...
<ogra> thats the drawback C code has vs python
<zsh> ok
<ogra> beyond that the ssh key problem isnt solved aet afaik
<ogra> (you need avalid ssh key for every server in the list installed on the client)
<zsh> hmm, I cannot login with ldm
<ogra> any error
<ogra> ?
<zsh> after entering the password, the password file is still visible and following is displayed "verifying password, please wait..."
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> anything in /var/log/auth.log ?
<zsh> oh, now I have a black screen
<zsh> I will have a look at the logs
<ogra> also look in ~/.xsession-errors of that user
<zsh> nothing in auth.log
<zsh> no .xsession-errors file
<zsh> I never loged in with the user
<ogra> can that user log in on the server directly ?
<zsh> with ssh?
<ogra> in any way :)
<ogra> just check the user works so you can rule out any basic failure with the account
<zsh> ssh works
<ogra> add:
<ogra> SCREEN_02=shell
<ogra> and
<ogra> SCREEN_07=ldm
<ogra> to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<ogra> in a default section
<ogra> then you will have a console on the second terminal on the client and can check /var/log/ldm.log there
<zsh> ok
<zsh> should I configure something to use /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf ?
<zsh> ok, I have, I guess a dhcp option
<ogra> no
<ogra> its used by default in gutsy
<ogra> (if it exists and is in the right format indeed)
<zsh> ahh, I forgot "[default] "
<zsh> hmm, does not work
<ogra> but you are running gutsy all over ?
<zsh> yes
<zsh> I have a lts.conf in the chroot
<zsh> should I delete it and rebuild the image
<ogra> that gets overwroitten by initramfs if it can get one via tftp
<ogra> no, no need to
<zsh> or I will write the new options in this file
<ogra> indeed you could do that, but that then requires an image rebuild
<zsh> the dhcpd runnes not on this box
<zsh> ok
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i havent chefcked the lts.conf/tftp code against foreign servers yet, that might be it ...
<zsh> the dhcpd runs on debian etch
<ogra> well, that shouldnt break
<ogra> but i'm not sure my code respects the next-server variable yet
<zsh> oh, that could be
<zsh> I should enter the shell by typing: alt+ctrl+F2 or?
<zsh> I have rebuild the image and also no success
<zsh> I get only a black screen
<zsh> strl+alt+F9 brings me back to ldm
<ogra> weird
<zsh> does screen_02=shell work with feisty?
<zsh> the shell works on a real hardware client
<zsh> not with vmware
<zsh> ogra: I tried a few things, with the client, until I saw following in ldm.log "/usr/bin/ssh -X -t -S /var/run/ldm_socket -l <myuser> 192.168.0.254 ..."
<zsh> 192.168.0.254 is not my server
<zsh> but the other IPs are ok
<zsh> so "next-server" ist not implemented
<ogra> so your lts.conf works now ?
<ogra> or how did you get into the client
<zsh> I tried it on a real hardware client
<zsh> not in vmware
<zsh> in vmware I get no shell
<ogra> you can try setting LDM_SERVER or just SERVER to your servers ip in lts.conf ... ut indeed that only works where lts.conf is read
<zsh> ok
<zsh> can I try both?
<zsh> thx this
<zsh> works
<zsh> so perhaps I can also connect to my feisty system
<RichEd> ping ogra
<RichEd> hi ... just installed edubuntu 7.04 to my old mecer (acer) notebook ... it gives me only 640x480 screen resolution ... how do i add other resolutions ?
<RichEd> i've run 915 resolution ... but still only the 1 option available
<ogra> are you sure its an intel chipset ?
<RichEd> how would I check ?
<stgraber> RichEd: lspci
<ogra> lspci
* RichEd needs to dash out ... back in 30 mins and will then try that ... thanks both :)
<zsh> ogra: if I point LDM_SERVER and SERVER to my feisty server, I have a authorisation problem, I guess I have to add the ssh keys fprm the feisty server
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> the client needs to know the keys of the app server you log in to
<zsh> is there a quick way to do this?
<stgraber> I don't know if there is a quicker way than chroot the ltsp chroot + put the key in there + rebuild the squashfs
<zsh> ok
<zsh> what is the right way, to import the key
<stgraber> you should put them into /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
<stgraber> format is the same as your .ssh/known_hosts
<zsh> ok, seams easy, thx, I try this
<ogra> dont forget to rebuild the image :)
<zsh> no, I justed finished
<zsh> wow, it works, great great great
<zsh> thx thx thx
<zsh> has the thinclient now still a open network connection to my gutsy server?
<zsh> it I don't use the swaping-server
<zsh> ok, I have to go
<zsh> thx, for your great work
<zsh> gutsy ltsp will rock
<zsh> bye
<ogra> thanks, ciao :)
<afd> hi! I have an LTSP setup running with an Ubuntu server (this is not an Edubuntu installation though)
<afd> One of my terminals, where Gnome runs, was configured through the Keyboard applet to have an aditional layout (Romanian)
<afd> this has the immediate  effect of reseting the terminal and not allowing it to log in into that account anymore
<afd> any experience with this?
<RichEd> hi ogra ... i'm back ... yes lspci says Intel GJ/GE Chipset Integrated Graphicd Device
<ogra> hmm
<RichEd> do i need to restart the GUI once I have run 915resolution
<ogra> you should reboot after instalig it
<ogra> *installing
<RichEd> okie ... doing that now
<ogra> afaik it has a bootscript that gets executed
<cottima> ogra how art thou?
<sbalneav> Morning
<stgraber> morning sbalneav
<highvoltage> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> hey hey
<highvoltage> sbalneav: is there an online copy of the ltsp documentation you have worked on?
<ogra> cottima, fine fine ... bit busy preparing the tribe4 CD :)
<sbalneav> Well, it's on the handbook, so it's mirrored on the docs.edubuntu.com I think
<bddebian> Heya
<gduteil_> hello
<gduteil> hello i'm back
<JonNoob_> HELP- Got a install of edubuntu feisty server where the clients won't boot. It says rpc failed: 2 after running /scripts/nfs-premount
<JonNoob_> Could someone please tell me where i have to change the ip on my server if i want to use a different ip-range than the default? Is it only dhcpd.conf and system-administration-network?
<cliebow> cbx33:any tips on adding x11vnc..sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 and apt-get installx11vnc ..sees no package..
<cbx33> cliebow, i havn't had much exp with that....
<cliebow> k..
<cbx33> i tested a different way
<cbx33> I'm just writing a mail ti the ML
<cliebow> k..i see gutsy main restricted as only repo in sources.list
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> are you running gutsy?
<cliebow> yes
<cliebow> gutsy
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> i have no idea then
<cbx33> ;)
<cliebow> how can i tell what repo holds x11vnc/libvncserver?
<cliebow> ohh
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> what about a search
<cbx33> packages.ubuntu.com
<cliebow> heh yeah..just remembered
<cliebow> universe
<cliebow> ..wonder whether i should twek sources.list in chroot
<cliebow> too late to worry now 8~)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> bbl
<cliebow> here goes!
<cliebow> ohh..build-image
<cliebow> whooops..update-image
<cliebow> cbx33:how should i go about troubleshooting tcm? with one user i do not see him
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> does he have a b at the start or end of his name?
<cbx33> username
<cliebow> username is oogabooga (of course)
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> oh yeh it's a b anywhere
<cbx33> looks like no one applied my patch
<cliebow> heh..ill try oogaooga
<cbx33> I'll send one to you
<cbx33> yup
<LaserJock> cbx33: a "b" anywhere will make it not work? :-)
<cliebow> wierd..
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> there is a python command that's wrong
<cbx33> it strips chars instead of replacing a astring
<cbx33> i sent ogra a patch for this
<cbx33> months ago
<cbx33> ;)
<cliebow> cbx33:you'll have to sen the manual too 8~)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> bbl
<cliebow> cbx33:no joy..ooga     pts/1        2007-08-07 15:22 (192.168.0.242)
<tck> anyone here?
<LaserJock> tck: if you've got a question you can just ask
<tck> it's ok i don't need to now, thanks :)
<moquist> ogra: are you sure su-ing as "postmaster" is right? what about su-ing to "postgres"?
<moquist> (pitti's not around ATM)
* moquist guesses ogra isn't really around, either
<LaserJock> moquist: I think he's in the middle of trying to salvage Tribe 4 :-)
#edubuntu 2007-08-08
<netdog> highvoltage: :)
<highvoltage> hey netdog
<RichEd> hi highvoltage netdog Baby
<highvoltage> good morning RichEd
<JonNoob> Anybody have any thoughts on choosing i386 version or amd64 version for a edubuntu feisty server?
<highvoltage> JonNoob: I don't know whether the 64bit version really gives such a large performance boost, I think the i386 setup will be easier, especially if you'll be booting i386 clients
<highvoltage> JonNoob: also, things like flash and java doesn't work on 64bit, afaik
* JonNoob is now away - Reason : NEED FOOD.....
<pips1> ogra: RichEd meeting in four minutes?
<RichEd> hi pips ... yes ... hopefully a short one ...
<ogra> pips1, more or less ... tech will be pretty short, i'm in the middle of debiugging tribe4
<ogra> doesnt work :(
* ogra quickly makes some fresh coffee
* RichEd has a holiday tomorrow ... and a leave day friday ... need to wrap up for the weekend so i can spend some time with my kids
<RichEd> so short tech is good ... and more user / community next week when we have the US people awake
<highvoltage> RichEd: 2pm this afternoon?
<highvoltage> (ie now?)
<RichEd> highvoltage: yes indeed ... 2 mins
<RichEd> get your coffee now :)
<cliebow_> #ub-->?
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in 2 mins === in #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> ok :)
<RichEd> ogra ... i am pulling down the additional intel drivers ... found a help page on the wiki
<ogra> ah
<cliebow_> ogra:any input on thin-client-manager..i dont see squat when i start it..
<ogra> cliebow, sbalneav changed the commandline we look for in the proclist
<cliebow_> ahhh.
<ogra> i havent gotten to the gui pieces yet ... will fix that before freeze (16th)
<cliebow_> grewat..no pucker here..
<ogra> i hope i have the time to also get ltsp-manager going at least with default global settings
<cliebow_> lemme know if i can mock it up and try anything..
<cliebow_> locate invoke
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> hello sbalneav
<sbalneav> hey highvoltage
<cliebow_> Hey Scottie!
<JonNoob> Anybody know how to remove old raid in the install? it keeps saying that the MD unit is in use, when i try to delete it.
<LaserJock> RichEd: poke
<RichEd> hi LaserJock ...
<bddebian> Heya
<RichEd> highvoltage: ping
<JonNoob> Which kernel should I choose to install for my server? linux-generic, linux-image-386, linux-image-generic, linux-image-2.6.20-15-generic, linux-image-2.6.20-15-386?
<LaserJock> JonNoob: well, those are actually only 2 kernels
<LaserJock> generic and 386
<netdog> kbye
<LaserJock> and generic should generally work fine
<JonNoob> ok.. Thanks for clearing that up for me....
<LaserJock> JonNoob: installing linux-generic pulls in all the needed packages
* JonNoob is now away - Reason : Stretching my legs......
<cliebow_> anyone have a doc on reverting to xdmcp?
<LaserJock> ogra: is tribe 4 looking good?
<ogra> no
<ogra> very bad atm
<LaserJock> uh oh
<ogra> and i didnt even have time to look at the oversizedness of the liveCD yet
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> ogra: yikes, amd64 is 727MB and i386 is 712MB
<ogra> yep
<ogra> LaserJock, server not installing at all is worse
<LaserJock> hmm, I wish I knew how to take care of the oversized LiveCD more
<LaserJock> do you just drop stuff from the seeds to slim it down?
<LaserJock> or is there more work to it?
<ogra> no, dropp stuff is fine ing
<ogra> oops
<ogra> dropping stuff is fine
<ogra> even though that rather looks like something extra went in since tribe3
<ogra> like duplicated kernel or so
<LaserJock> I can take a look at the seeds if you want
<ogra> that would help a lot
<LaserJock> ogra: amd64 shipps with more langs
<LaserJock> es xh de fr
<ogra> yeah, we can drop all but -en worst case
<LaserJock> ogra: I don't see much of anything in live and ship-live that could really go but the amd64 langs
<LaserJock> ogra: perhaps desktop is just getting bigger?
<ogra> well, server didnt explode
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> ohhh
<LaserJock> hmm, I know gcompris added some new sound langs
<LaserJock> but those shouldn't be on there anyway
<ogra> no, they are seeded specifically
<LaserJock> geeze, and tux* aren't even on amd64
<LaserJock> that's weird
<LaserJock> hmm, the kde lang packs are twice the size of the gnome ones
<ogra> yeah :(
<LaserJock> well, looking at the diff with ubuntu's live seed
<LaserJock> it looks to me like langpacks might be it
<ogra> likely ... thats often also the easiest way to gain space
<LaserJock> they only put es xh on amd64
<LaserJock> and obviously no KDE ;-)
<ogra> pitti has a size list somewhere iirc
<LaserJock> and ship-live are identical between edubuntu and ubuntu
<ogra> -desktop arent ...
<LaserJock> ogra: actually, I just did a bzr pull, ubuntu took out *all* non en lang packs
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> that must be it
<ogra> feel free to fix the seeds :)
<LaserJock> ok, well, do you care about -desktop at this point?
<ogra> nope, as long as its fubctional
<ogra> err, well size wise i do
<LaserJock> well, I was wondering if you wanted desktop more in sync with ubuntu's
<ogra> but if lang dropping is sufficient ... *shrug*
<LaserJock> but I'm guessing it's a little late to be messing with it
<ogra> nah, not now
<ogra> apart from mono stuff in ubuntu and some edu apps in ours it should be pretty much in sync
<highvoltage> RichEd: pong
<highvoltage> kbye netdog
<ogra> NotAmaranth, we still see you ...
<NotAmaranth> ogra: I took off my cloak ;)
* ogra shades his eyes
<highvoltage> hehe
<frostyfrog> Is it possible to convert and/or run exe files?
<JonNoob> frostyfrog- only in wine
<frostyfrog> I want to run furcsetup023a.exe
<JonNoob> And what is that for???
<frostyfrog> a game.
<JonNoob> Well then you really do need Wine.
<frostyfrog> wine? what's that?
<frostyfrog> Emerald Flame: There's at least one other thread on this subject on this forums as well. I do worry that as we update more in the next year or so, we will go father away from beign supported by Wine. Perhaps it's time someone did make a Linux Furcadia client. I'm afraid we do not have time to do one and support it officially though.
<gduteil> hello
<frostyfrog> hi
<gduteil> wine is a emulator of windows
<frostyfrog> do you know where I could ge it?
<gduteil> wine.org
<frostyfrog> ok
<JonNoob> you could also try joining #wine
<gduteil> http://www.winehq.org/
<gduteil> sorry i'm a poor frenchie ;-)
<frostyfrog> ok
<frostyfrog> http://www.winehq.org/site/download-deb -- how can I know which version my ubuntu is?
<frostyfrog> brb
<anutile> having trouble with log out.  All user all of a sudden can not log out of desktop.  It just sits there at their desktop.  Need to ctrl-alt-backspace but of course this leaves alot of left over processes
<JonNoob> 7join #ubuntu
<JonNoob> Hi. Does anybody know how to completely remove a raid1 software raid? It is really slow, so i wan't to begin from scratch.
<anutile> look at dpkg-reconfigure it will ask to remove the markings on the drives that associate it with raid maybe dpkg-reconfigure mdadm
<LaserJock> ogra: I figure dropping the non-en lang packs will get us ~ 20MB
<ogra> only on amd64 though
<ogra> the non -en langs in live are all tagged with [amd64] 
<LaserJock> yes
<anutile> I figured out the LDM problem for me.  The servers gdm had crashed causing this hang.
<LaserJock> ogra: kstars is ~ 10MB and is only i386
<ogra> uuuh
<ogra> dropping kstars is quite hard
<LaserJock> yes :(
<LaserJock> the other one would be tuxpaint
<ogra> which partially breaks gcompris
<LaserJock> oh dang, right
<LaserJock> you know, if we turned it into a demo CD I think we could do this much better
<LaserJock> like taking off build-essential perhaps, and ubiquity-*
<LaserJock> either that or we make a special live desktop seed
<LaserJock> but i386 has already got all the lang packs removed
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> ogra: any suggestions? I can do the leg work I think, but I'm not sure where to hack :/
<ogra> well, for now lets take tuxpaint out
<ogra> that will gain more than 10M i guess
<ogra> quick but temporary "fix"
<LaserJock> what about gcompris?
<ogra> we'll live with the bug for now
<ogra> i really dont understand why it exploded that heavily, but digging the logs for all possible changes one by one over the last weeks takes to much time now
<LaserJock> will germinate complain if the gcompris deps aren't satisfied?
<ogra> lets go without tuxpaint for now and find the real cause for the breakage if we have tiome for that
<ogra> tuxpaint shouldnt be a dep
<ogra> its a recommends afaik
<LaserJock> well ... I changed that to fix the bug :(
<ogra> meh
<LaserJock> although I'm not convinced absolutely that the bug even exists anymore
<LaserJock> it seems difficult to reproduce
<LaserJock> ogra: sorry dude, I was trying to just fix the bug :(
<LaserJock> until upstream had it all figured out
<ogra> then its kstars ... even though i dont think that getw us as much
<ogra> *gets
<LaserJock> oh hmmm, I'm not sure if it'll be quite enough on it's own
<LaserJock> I got 10MB for the .deb size
<LaserJock> and we were 12MB over :(
<LaserJock> ogra: how long does it take for the .iso to build?
<ogra> 20 min or so
* LaserJock crosses fingers and toes
<ogra> but i suspect pitti will do all flavours so it depends when we're on
<LaserJock> ogra: well, I could whip up a gcompris without tuxpaint dep, if it's not too late to push that through
<ogra> well, we have to revert that later again
<ogra> lets keep it and look for other stuff
<ogra> any idea how much build-essential would give us ?
<LaserJock> hmmpf, I just tried gcompris on gutsy without the tuxpaint dep and it worked fine :/
<ogra> apart from the tuxpaint menu option
<ogra> in gcompris
<LaserJock> well, but it comes up and says "You need to install tuxpaint" and exits that activity nicely
<LaserJock> which is what it's supposed to do
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> ok
<LaserJock> as opposed to freezing or hanging like it used to
<ogra> lets revert that then and drop tuxpaint for now
<LaserJock> ok, so I guess fakesync with an ubuntu2 version should work?
<ogra> just asking pitti
<ogra> ok !
<LaserJock> freaky, I've already got a changelog entry for ubuntu2
<ogra> ok, you do the gcompris change, i'll fix the seeds
<LaserJock> at least we dont't have to upload the .orig.tar.gz ;-)
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> ogra: blah, I wonder if amd64 will still be too big, tuxpaint will only affect i386
<LaserJock> oh wait
<ogra> i dropped the langs on amd
<ogra> and tuxpaint on x86
<LaserJock> but I figure the langs only get us ~ 20MB
<LaserJock> hopefully something changes :-)
<ogra> well, then we dont have amd64 live ...
<ogra> *shrug*
<ogra> its a milestone ...
<ogra> i would be concerned if it were beta
<LaserJock> tuxpaint-stamps is an _all package of 21MB
<Zac1> hello?
<Zac1> anyone?
<LaserJock> I guess that still wouldn't affect amd64 though as it didn't need it in the first place
<Zac1> hello?
<Zac1> anyone there?
<ogra> but we could add some langs to i386 :P
<LaserJock> ogra: yeah
<LaserJock> Zac1: just ask your questions :-)
* ogra takes a looong break now .. working since 12h
<LaserJock> ogra: anything you need me to do while you're on your break?
<Zac1> hello?
<LaserJock> Zac1: hello
<Zac1> im trying to add a okidata printer to my system
<Zac1> can you help me?
<Zac1> RichEd?
<Zac1> can you help me with edubuntu printers?
<LaserJock> Zac1: I think you are probably better off asking #ubuntu as they have a lot more people
<Zac1> thanks
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<LaserJock> stgraber: still around?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> starting edubuntu testing
<LaserJock> stgraber: is there a way that I can know if I have an account on you iso testing thingy
<stgraber> LaserJock: let me check
<LaserJock> I can't remember if I've actually created an account or not
<stgraber> LaserJock: no LaserJock account and no account with mantha in the mail addi
<LaserJock> ok, good
<LaserJock> stgraber: and does your iso testing site link to the isos?
<stgraber> yes, click on the icon next to the iso name
<stgraber> you should have http, rsync and md5
<LaserJock> This ISO wasn't found on cdimage.ubuntu.com (may no longer exists)
<stgraber> with which one ?
<LaserJock> that's for the Edubuntu Server Addon i386
<LaserJock> same for amd64
<stgraber> ok, that's a tracker bug, will quickly fix it
<LaserJock> and what is "Edubuntu Upgrade" ?
<stgraber> Feisty -> Gutsy upgrade
<LaserJock> ok, so know when the Tribe4 Desktop CD gets built it'll show up on the Edubuntu list?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> LaserJock: serveraddon now working
<stgraber> btw, I'll need to rewrite this whole function as it's full of hack :)
<LaserJock> heh
<stgraber> well generating the cdimage.u.c path from the title shown on the tracker isn't that easy :)
<stgraber> I also have some bad "gutsy" hardcoded which could shortly be a problem :)
<LaserJock> well, that's what doing it in iterations is all about
<LaserJock> make it "workable" first, then polish it up
<stgraber> yes, and it'll need a lot of polish if we want it to be used by the mozilla team/kernel team and some hardware team as well
<stgraber> as it's currently full of ISO-specific hack
<LaserJock> stgraber: is it running on a Canonical machine? it's a bit slow, I'd imagine you'd get hit pretty hard during Tribe/Release times
<stgraber> it's on my dedicated server for now (256MB of ram and tons of other services running as well)
<stgraber> there is something like 20MB of free ram :)
<stgraber> Henrik told me Canonical is installing a server for us, so it'll get faster :)
<stgraber> (and SSL with 20MB of Ram on a 2Ghz Celeron CPU isn't that fast either ....)
<LaserJock> stgraber: no, not at all
<stgraber> Drupal caching already help a bit, only user-specific pages are slow now (the worst being when you actually submit results)
#edubuntu 2007-08-09
<LaserJock> stgraber: your welcome email has : "Than you for registering an Ubuntu ISO Testing account!" should be Thank
<stgraber> oh, both pochu and heno didn't notice this one :)
<stgraber> thanks
<LaserJock> stgraber: you testing amd64 or i386?
<stgraber> i386
<LaserJock> k, me too
<LaserJock> I'm doing one Server Addon check right now
<LaserJock> I'll have to wait until I get home in a couple hours to do the WinFOSS check
<nrayever> hi
<nrayever> i was wondering if anyone had ever tried to boot edubuntu in terminal using a small hd?
<nrayever> anybody??
<LaserJock> I haven't
<LaserJock> and I'm thinking most people are asleep right now
<LaserJock> nrayever: you could certainly try the edubuntu-users mailing list
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey!
<sbalneav> Ollie get a tribe out the door?
<sbalneav> I am sooo beat
<sbalneav> We got 8 yards of soil today.
<sbalneav> Me and the kids got it all spread around.
<sbalneav> My back hurts.
<sbalneav> I'm cold, and there are wolves after me.
<sbalneav> Now my youngest son's talking smack about my typing.
<sbalneav> It's a tough old life.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: no, tribe 4 had some issues
<LaserJock> the Desktop CDs were oversized
<LaserJock> so we ended up having to take out tuxpaint
<LaserJock> sbalneav: there was also some apt issue that messed up LTSP stuff I think
<melinate> anyone around who knows how to set up the DHCP server?
<ktama> Hello, I am a beginner edubuntu and English. I have a question.
<ktama> I made thin client environment to install ltsp-server and openssh-server.
<ktama> the client can not find USB flash memory, How do I solve this problem?
<ogra> ktama, did yu use that with the edubuntu server isntall or was that system istalled from a liveCD ?
<ktama> I install ubuntu-japanese-localize version, and I refer to edubuntu serever made by my teacher
<ktama> I am sorry, I am poor at English
<ktama> I use synaptic packege manager to install ltsp-server and openssh-server.
<dhq> which is the best typing tutor
<ogra> ktama, edubuntu server comes with ltsp set up and installed out of the box already
<ktama> OK, Mr.ogra. I install edubuntu server. thank you!
<edubuntugirl> man that was a long sleep
<ogra> edubuntugirl, morning dear bot :)
<edubuntugirl> ogra: *blink*
<encompass> if anyone wants to try my little GSoC program, give me a message and I can show you how to get it started. http://launchpad.net/pystart
<encompass> needs some testing and I have a few questions for the people that use it.
<encompass> ogra: edubuntugirl is a bot?
<edubuntugirl> encompass: yep.
<highvoltage> encompass: nice logo for pystart. what does pystart do?
* highvoltage reads the actual description
<highvoltage> (public holiday here, just woke up an hour ago :) )
<encompass> highvoltage: doesn't it say?  It is a program to help teachers teach python
<encompass> yeah
* encompass read's the line below the first one :P
<encompass> highvoltage: if you need help setting it up I can help you
* Yagisan waves hello
<Watersevenub> Is there any updated page similar to https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstalledApplications?action=show&redirect=ApplicationSelection? which shows the applications of Edubuntu?
<ogra> Watersevenub, i dont think so ... we worked on a spec for a voting mechanism etc but thats not there yet
<ogra> Watersevenub, http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.gutsy/files the union of desktop and live should give you a pretty detailed list though
<Watersevenub> ogra, thank you.
* mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by ChanServ
<sbalneav> Morning all
<juliux> morning sbalneav
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | feisty (7.04) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download | gutsy (7.10) Tribe-4 released ! test the development iso from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/gutsy/tribe-4/
<ogra> sbalneav, good timing ;)
* mode/#edubuntu [-o ogra]  by ogra
<sbalneav> For showing up?
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> Whats up?
<ogra> 2mins before a release is good timing i think ;)
<sbalneav> lol
<ogra> one bad ldm bug showed up bte
<sbalneav> \o/ for me
<ogra> *btw
<sbalneav> Yeah, that one's already fixed in my tree
<ogra> bug 131259 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131259 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LDM doesn't disconnect ssh on logout" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131259
<sbalneav> but other things are broken, so don't sync at the moment
<ogra> i wont
<ogra> i'll care for Q-Funk's LinuxBIOS stuff now
<sbalneav> yeah, squashed that 2 days ago.
<ogra> and want to try to get something basic out of the ltsp-manager code
<sbalneav> Oh, excellend.
<ogra> so we have *something* in gutsy as base for LTS
<sbalneav> I've got the lang menu populating now, I just need to get the session menu going.
<ogra> francis is already busy writing specs :)
<sbalneav> :)
<ogra> i'D like to substitute locale names with a table like gdm uses
<ogra> even thats ugly code, it will look a lot better for the user
<sbalneav> yeah, that'd be nice.  Since we're going to get all the basics in for this release, it'll WORK, we'll get the polish on for the lts release.
<sbalneav> I'm VERY excited about gutsy
<ogra> (gdm has a translation table so de_DE becomes "German")
<ogra> it totally limits the set of locales but is way way cleaner
<sbalneav> We can just steal^H^H^H^H^Huse that code.
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> ogra++
<sbalneav> I hurt.
<sbalneav> I moved 8 yards of soil ysterday.
<ogra> what i'D like in gutsy already is a hardcoded xterm session as fallback
<sbalneav> Oh, yeah, that'll be in there.
<ogra> ouch
<sbalneav> That's like an entire DUMPTRUCK full
<ogra> susie bougth a handmower for me ... to get rid of my belly
<sbalneav> one. Wheelbarrow. At. A. Time.
<ogra> now i have to mow 600sqm once a week with that thing
<sbalneav> Well, that'll make your legs an back strong.  Won't do much for your belly. :)
<ogra> well, feels rather like its "good" for my sholders
<sbalneav> Yeah, it'll be  an upper body workout.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> well
<ogra> at least i'm forced to move ...
<sbalneav> What did you have before? A push gas/electric, or a riding mower?
<ogra> electric
<sbalneav> Yeah, same here.
<sbalneav> I hate gas mowers
<sbalneav> too ruddy nosy, and bad for the environment.
<ogra> the ground isnt big enough for a gas one imho
<ogra> susie would like one
<juliux> ogra, have fu wiht your handmower
<juliux> fun
<ogra> juliux, i already had ... (can hardly lift my arms)
<sbalneav> I'll reassign the ldm bug to me, and mark it in progress.
<ogra> oki
<sbalneav> and post a comment.
<sbalneav> Could you mark bug #109270 as a wishlist?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109270 in ltsp "[FR]  user list in ldm" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109270
<sbalneav> I don't have that option.
<ogra> sbalneav, btw, it would be nice if the server option isnt shown in the preferences as long as (# of servers) == 1
<ogra> but that can be LTS as well indeed
<sbalneav> Actually, I'll get that going for this release.
<sbalneav> because that's the way I want it as well.
<sbalneav> I'm getting a real education in GTK programming, let me tell you :)
<ogra> sbalneav, and we should probably make it read something like LDM_THEME so its possible to override the default theme from lts.conf
<ogra> else you would have to run update-alternatives and ltsp-update-image all the time
<ogra> and it would make per cliet themeing possible ...
<sbalneav> Yeah, THAT can be for gutsy + 1 :)
<ogra> well its only a getenv call and a strcpy, no ?
<sbalneav> We should also do something next time for bug #67397
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 67397 in ltsp "LDM session information should be cleaner" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67397
<sbalneav> Along the same lines as the gdm lang code.
<ogra> same as the locale thing
<ogra> snap :)
<sbalneav> right.
<ogra> i wanted to do te locale thing in ldm1 already, but debian complained that i'D hide stuff
<ogra> same for the sessions
<ogra> if you have xfce installed in ldm1 it really gets messy ...
<ogra> you have xfce and xfce-session ...
<ogra> same for icewm
<ogra> debian insisted to have each window manager as well in there, not only the sessions
<ogra> i want only the sessions ... debian can send patches if tehy want to call WMs directly imho
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> Going up for breakfast.  Will be popping in and out all day.
* ogra goes afk until the devel meeting ... back in 20min
<highvoltage> ogra: not sure if you're back, could edubuntu make tribe 4?
<ogra>  /topic :P
<highvoltage> great! thanks ogra :)
<jsgotangco> sawasdee
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: rsync?
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: excuse me?
<highvoltage> hmm
<Spec> Heya...I'm about to do a presentation on ltsp/edubuntu....anyone know any rough figures of how much paid-for-support usually costs? (yearly)
<highvoltage> Spec: from whom?
<ogra> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid
<Spec> That's not really important. I'm just gonna briefly mention that paid for support exists, and it usually runs about xxx-xxx$
<highvoltage> Spec: I've done presentations on LTSP and Ubuntu before, if you'd like to steal some ideas
<Spec> highvoltage, yessir definitely!
<ogra> Thin client and cluster support 	$1200 (USD)* 	$4000 (USD)*
<Spec> 1200-4000$ / year?
<ogra> first is 9x5 second 24x7
<Spec> ah hah, excellent #rs
<Spec> anyone have support #rs for a 16-comp win lab?
<highvoltage> Spec: I've uploaded them to http://jonathancarter.co.za/files/presentations/
<Spec> nice
<highvoltage> wow, I didn't remember that my ubuntu talk had so many slides :)
<Spec> for the heading of a slide containing just webernet links
<Spec> what should it be?
<Spec> "hyperlinks"? "webernet links"? i'm talking to government peoples / low income housing
<LaserJock> ogra: wahoo, it made it! :-)
<ogra> LaserJock, yeah
* ogra gives LaserJock a really big thank you hug
<LaserJock> ogra: on the rebuild the amd64 LiveCD lost 55MB!
<ogra> addon looks sweet btw
<LaserJock> so I had pitti put es lang packs back on
<ogra> yeah, there is still some space
<LaserJock> ogra: thanks, still need to mess with icons and get some more apps on there :-)
<ogra> but additionally there must be something else that was added
<ogra> i'll investigate before tribe5
<LaserJock> the LiveCD installs fine :-)
<ogra> well, i'm not a fan of the new fusa applet
<ogra> seems so silly on the live dsktop
<LaserJock> ogra: yeah, I haven't tried it yet, but ...
<ogra> but seb urgently wants to keep it there
<ogra> it doesnt work on ltsp either
<LaserJock> ogra: well, seb128 said he needs to hack on something to get it to not die if it's not installed
<ogra> so i'm inclined to throw it out completely
<LaserJock> it was off, but then stgraber reported that the LiveCD gives an error when you load up
<ogra> else we need to hack up ldm to create ~/.Xauthority
<LaserJock> I guess because the applet is in the default panel profile
<ogra> it was added over night
<ogra> the error is gone
<ogra> but now we have the applet eating panel space "Live CD User"
<ogra> (and nothing to switch to)
<LaserJock> I totally agree though that it's not great on LTSP
<LaserJock> well, I *did* like that it shows you your still using the live CD
<ogra> the only use case i see for it is that you can access users and groups through a rigth click now
<LaserJock> I've seen several cases when people didn't know if they were on the livecd or not
<LaserJock> RichEd-1: ping
<ogra> he's got a day off today iirc
<LaserJock> ah, ok
<ogra> he said so at the meeting
<LaserJock> ogra: I was thinking of adding actual menu items (not in a submenu) to install the xfce and KDEedu stuff together
<ogra> sounds good
<LaserJock> ogra: I haven't looked at the logs of the meetings yet
<LaserJock> I think all I should need is to put the edubuntu-addon-  metapacks on the addon cd
<LaserJock> and then make a desktop to install edubuntu-addon-light and edubuntu-addon-kde
<ogra> thats a trivial seed change
<LaserJock> ogra: yeah, and I can even do that now
<ogra> yup :)
* LaserJock flexes his core-dev muscles 
<ogra> feel free all the time :)
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> and with Colins great idea of using the app-install-data-edubuntu package, I can upload changes anytime and they show up on the next daily
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> anyway, i'll take off for today ...
<LaserJock> ok, you deserve it :-)
<ogra> i'll probably drop by later though
<LaserJock> I've got a lot of real life work today
<LaserJock> but maybe later I'll upload a new edubuntu-addon-meta
<LaserJock> and tweak the seeds
* LaserJock congratulates ogra on Tribe4
<highvoltage> ogra++ :)
<highvoltage> I was busy rsyncing it but I reached my cap and had to start over :/
<LaserJock> ouch
<Cooldude37554745> Heya i need help
<Cooldude37554745> How to i get access so i can delete stuff?
<Cooldude37554745> I need help how do i make firefox start at google not at edubuntu.com
<Cooldude37554745> ??
<Cooldude37554745> ANYONE
<LaserJock> Cooldude37554745: Go into Edit -> Preferences
<LaserJock> phew
<highvoltage> phew?
<LaserJock> that Cooldude character seemed like trouble
<highvoltage> seemed a bit impatient.
<stgraber> ogra, sbalneav: I'll update the test classroom I'm managing tomorrow afternoon, I currently have Feisty server running ltsp from Gutsy and I'm going to rebuild the chroot with latest ltsp, do you have one with fixed ldm2 around ?
<stgraber> sbalneav: if you have some kind of patch for ldm2 fixing that issue, I can also rebuild the package myself, it's no problem (as I have to rebuild the package anyway for backport on Feisty)
<stgraber> oh, and while I am at it, what's the easiest way to fix the resolution to 1024x768 on all clients ? (it's causing some problem with vnc if they are running on different resolutions)
#edubuntu 2007-08-10
<monteslu> anyone here using smbldap-installer ?
<LaserJock> nope might ask moquist if he's around
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: did you know System76 was selling Edubuntu servers?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: nope
<LaserJock> I just saw it
<Burgundavia> oh very cool
<Burgundavia> you should blog that
<LaserJock> http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=29&products_id=63
<monteslu> LaserJock, fixed the ldap problem
<monteslu> got a new one :)
<LaserJock> I think I will, I was already going to blog about Tribe 4 Edubuntu
<monteslu> edubuntu/Muekow is alot different than fedora/ltsp4, which is the dhcpd.conf that is actually being used?
<monteslu> seems like there's more than one
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not exactly sure
<LaserJock> you might want to ask #ltsp
<monteslu> no one awake in there :)
<LaserJock> hmm, there should be somebody latter, sbalneav should know
<LaserJock> *later
<monteslu> sbalneav is the man
<monteslu> him and orgra and a couple others convinced me to ditch k12ltsp for edubuntu :)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> yes, they are a lot of fun to be around
<monteslu> I have a user in sudoers, but doing sudo synaptic wont work, and just launching synaptic runs without root privledges
<Burgundavia> monteslu: your user shoudl be in the admin group
<Burgundavia> don't directly edit sudoers unless you really know what you are doing
<monteslu> Burgundavia, guess I don't.... but I did use visudo :)
<Burgundavia> there is an admin group for a reason :)
<monteslu> guess I'll have to add that group to my smbldap server
<monteslu> synaptic runs fine from the server, just not a thin client
<Burgundavia> ahh, hmm
<monteslu> is flash with thin client sound support in an included repo?
<monteslu> is flashplugin-nonfree the current adobe flash plugin for edubuntu?
<monteslu> the ubuntu wiki says it is, but I cant find it in synaptic or apt-get command line
<monteslu> .... there's a thousand people in #ubuntu, how can anyone talk in there?
<poningru> monteslu: search for nonfree
<poningru> flashplugin-nonfree
<monteslu> i think the problem is that my apt-get update is failing
<monteslu> really strange because the packages its choking on I have no problem wget'ing
<monteslu> no idea how to fix it
<monteslu> poningru, do you have an edubuntu box you can apt-get update on?
<poningru> hmm
<poningru> what package is it chocking on?
<poningru> just remove it
<monteslu> http://security.ubuntu.com feisty-security/restricted
<monteslu> any idea why I can sudo a GUI app only on the server on edubuntu?
<monteslu> any idea if there really is a gzipped lts.conf example file, like the one specified in the real lts.conf file ?
<jamesstilwell3rd> exit
<jamesstilwell3rd> Sorry everyone.  I'm a fairly experienced sysadmin who has never used IRC (or any chat) so please forgive any random dumbness on my part.
<jamesstilwell3rd> How many are deployed with ltsp?
<Burgundavia> hmm?
<sbalneav> Well, got the language window and the session window sort of going in the greeter.
<sbalneav> As well, if there's only one possible host to log into, you don't get a host popup
<sbalneav> Gonna need some code cleanup, tomorrow I'll get the values passed back to ldm.
<LaserJock> sweet
<sbalneav> Rev's pushed.
<sbalneav> Tired.  Heading to bed.
<sbalneav> Night all
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<stgraber> ogra: ping
<ogra> stgraber, pong
<stgraber> ogra: do you have a working ltsp package or a patch so I can have a working ldm2 ?
<stgraber> ogra: I'll be updating my school test network (feisty server + gutsy ltsp) this afternoon and would like to have something more or less working :)
<ogra> stgraber, nope :/ sbalneav committed a fix in his branch but broke tons of other stuff that break login ...
<ogra> so i cant merge atm
<stgraber> ok, I'll have a quick look at the sources and see if I can simply add a system call so it kills the other ssh link :)
<ogra> that should work
<ogra> apart from that, i'd just wait and ask scott ;)
<ogra> he might be able to just give you a patch
<stgraber> I also have his bzr branch here, I can try to find the fix in it
<ogra> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/ltsp/scotts-gutsy/revision/sbalneav%40edubuntu-20070805044008-5jklqggt9rxfh2fq?start_revid=sbalneav%40edubuntu-20070810052713-0ji7xdr7e326q7vp
<ogra> i guess its that commit that fixes it
<ogra> he reworked all the pipes and forks
<stgraber> ogra: especially the end of the diff I think
<ogra> yep
<stgraber> ogra: I've just built a new set of ltsp packages from sbalneav's branch (he did some commit last night), I'll see if it works (I doubt but we can still try), if not I'll just try to manually patch the source
<stgraber> ogra: what's the way to force the resolution with ldm.conf ? I can't remember it and don't find it in the ldm.conf settings list
<stgraber> s/ldm.conf/lts.conf/ ofc
<stgraber> (I need to set 1024x768 on all thin clients, so I doubt I can use HORZ/VERT SYNC for that)
<ogra> stgraber, X_MODE_0=1024x768
<ogra> works in gutsy ;)
<stgraber> ogra: cool :)
<stgraber> ogra: oh, just a detail I came across, it'd be a good idea to copy /etc/apt/apt.conf before doing apt-get update in the chroot
<stgraber> ogra: otherwise the generation get stuck at the first apt-get update (020 IIRC)
<stgraber> ogra: any cluse on why pulseaudio isn't listening on port 4713 after running it with "pulseaudio --system" from tty1 ?
<stgraber> ogra: ergh, you also see the mouse cursor flickering when the screenshot is being made by xwd :(
<stgraber> ogra: sound fixed (I forgot to tweak the /etc/pulse/daemon.conf)
<bddebian> Heya
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> hi edubuntugirl
<edubuntugirl> hi, LaserJock!
<LaserJock> edubuntugirl: how are you doing?
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock: I already know stuff about what how are
<LaserJock> edubuntugirl: oh really?
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock: I'm not following you...
<LaserJock> edubuntugirl: nevermind then
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock: I'm not following you...
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: you are such a dumbass
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: I already know stuff about what you are
<highvoltage> pff.
<LaserJock> hahaha
* LaserJock hugs edubuntugirl 
<Amaranth> edubuntugirl: whee
<edubuntugirl> Amaranth: *blink*
<edubuntugirl> I'd like a Wii instead.
<Amaranth> No, I want to keep mine :)
* Amaranth goes to play bowling
<lns> Hey I'm building some brochure-type documentation for LTSP based networks, does anyone have any existing (completed) stuff like this? If not, I would be more than happy to submit what I complete
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: ping
<edubuntugirl> pong
#edubuntu 2007-08-11
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<helpjeff_> hello
<helpjeff_> i find driver for lexmark z735
<helpjeff_> penpriniting write z730 work properly with generic postscript
<helpjeff_> but not z735
<helpjeff_> thank you
<patxi> Hi all,
<patxi> which file should I configure to use LDM by clients?
<patxi> Right now, it shows GDM, but ldm is installed on /opt/ltsp/i286 chroot
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey, I added some options handling to ltsp-upate-kernels, ltsp-update-sshkeys and ltsp-update-image
<stgraber> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey stgraber
<stgraber> sbalneav: while you are at it, I noticed that ltsp-build-client does't copy /etc/apt/apt.conf to the chroot
<stgraber> sbalneav: and then doesn't work with http proxy
<stgraber> sbalneav: can you quickly fix that as well ?
<stgraber> sbalneav: I solved it by adding the cp before doing the apt-get update
<sbalneav> Well, that one I'd want to check out with ogra before making the change.
<sbalneav> I'm unsure he'd even like what I've done so far :)
<sbalneav> Let me have a look in my tree here.  You say if you pass a proxy in the command line it doesn't put that in the chroot?
* sbalneav pokes at code.
<stgraber> sbalneav: yep
<stgraber> sbalneav: I tried doing HTTP_PROXY="http://...." ltsp-build-client
<stgraber> but didn't work (as apt doesn't care of the HTTP_PROXY IIRC, it needs a /etc/apt/apt.conf file)
<sbalneav> Did you use the --mirror command line option?
<stgraber> no
<sbalneav> Try it with that, see if it copies that into the chroot.
<stgraber> It was : ltsp-build-client --prompt-rootpass --dist gutsy
<stgraber> (as I'm running a gutsy ltsp chroot on feisty edubuntu server)
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> heading up for breakfast
<EXP3> has anyone used edubuntu with LTSP?
<JonNoob> Please help.. My ltsp clients won't login. The loginscreen disapers for a few seconds and goes to black and the returns. Auth.log shows the user being authorized, and a session is being started.
#edubuntu 2007-08-12
<johnny> howdy
<johnny> now i'm where my terminals are
<JonNoob> OH NO.... I F..... up my hosts file, so now I can't use sudo anymore.... How will I be able to edit hosts without using sudo????
<johnny> should i be able to login from a console while logged in on a client?
<johnny> logged into a client via ldm that is
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<sbalneav> Wow
<sbalneav> Did a major split up of the greeter.
<sbalneav> Got a WHOLE lot of nice things going.
<sbalneav> Multi-host selecting's working nicely
<sbalneav> Session and language selection working.
<sbalneav> Now to tie it into the LDM.
<JonNoob> I need help... sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start, says fail. But my client still recieve a IP from the server. It seems like another dhcp server is running on the server, but it gives the wrong IP to the clients. I am running Edubuntu Feisty i38
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: seen pitti
<edubuntugirl> I haven't seen pitti, highvoltage
<JonNoob> Please can't anybody give me some advice. i am stuck here?
<highvoltage> JonNoob: where are you stuck?
<JonNoob> highvoltage: my dhcp3-server won't start
<JonNoob> Just says fail when i try to start it
<JonNoob> No info in syslog, daemon.log or messages
<highvoltage> JonNoob: sounds like an obvious question, but did you perhaps change anything in your dhcp setup recently?
<highvoltage> JonNoob: and is the network interface it's supposed to listen on available with the correct ip address?
<JonNoob> yes i have been fiddling, because it is a new install. Network interfaces is up, running and right ip
<JonNoob> But I was thinking if it can have anything to do with that i am only using one interface, while the default edubuntu setup wants me to use two
<highvoltage> ah, so it didn't work before?
<highvoltage> what does the last line of /etc/default/dhcp3-server say?
<rsalinas> hello
<rsalinas> ok, guys, anybody have a working setup of LTSP?
<highvoltage> rsalinas: hello.
<highvoltage> rsalinas: what do you need?
<rsalinas> LTSP
<highvoltage> on an edubuntu installation, or ubuntu installation?
<rsalinas> ok here is the deal, somehow I ended up being the it guy in a small company, and although we gave several linux servers working now, as well as a router and a Asterisk pbx, I really feel I want to implement a LTSP server
<rsalinas> actually I have a machine i could de dicate to this, so you tell me
<rsalinas> i already have a ubuntu server
<rsalinas> as well as a pfsense router (DHCP)
<JonNoob> It have worked. But very unstable
<rsalinas> what it works for a littlewhile, then crashes? how exactly is it unstable
<JonNoob> kauer: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33431
<JonNoob> highvoltage: INTERFACES="eth3"
<highvoltage> JonNoob: hmm, is that the interface that you currently you want dhcp3-server to listen on currently?
<JonNoob> yes. it is the only one with a link...
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell ogra ouch, here's another doc that contains bad info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LTSPHowTo
<edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
<JonNoob> rsalinas: Well for some time it worked.. sometimes it boots with no prob. other times it gets the ip 192.168.0.254 instead
<JonNoob> kauer: Thanks for all your help. You pushed a little farther
<JonNoob> got an error. No subnet declaration for eth3 (172.16.2.1)
* JonNoob is now away - Reason : Going away for 5 min. to hit server with sledge hammer....
<rsalinas> how big is that sledge hammer?
<stgraber> morning
<rsalinas> my main question is how do I integrate a LTSP server to coexist in a functional network, with out killing every other ubuntu, windows, and mac that get their network settings from the dhcp server
<rsalinas> morning
<rsalinas> o s#&t, my wife will just love me not sleeping again
<stgraber> rsalinas: you can add the LTSP boot info in your existing DHCP server
<stgraber> rsalinas: What kind of dhcp server is that ?
<rsalinas> pfsense
* JonNoob is no longer away : Gone for 6 minutes 9 seconds
<stgraber> rsalinas: You'll need to set the : next-server, filename and root-path options in the DHCP server config
<stgraber> rsalinas: next-server pointing to your LTSP server ip
<stgraber> rsalinas: and filename and root-path with the same values as your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<rsalinas> ok
<rsalinas> ok, in my DHCP configuration web page, i have a section labeled, "Enable Network booting" with 2 fieds, 1."Enter the ip address from the network boot server" 2."Enter the filename used for Networkbooting."
<rsalinas> 1 should be the ip addess of the LTSP server & 2 should be configuration files for the image i'll be booting?
<stgraber> yes, I just don't know if it'll work without the root-path set
<rsalinas> thanks guys, good nite
<JonNoob> Please help... My dhcp server won't start. I am running edubuntu feisty.
<JonNoob> Please help... My dhcp server won't start. I am running edubuntu feisty.
<zch> hi JonNoob
<sbalneav> ogra: If you're about, could you look at the updates I did to the ltsp-update- utils?
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: seen laserjock
<edubuntugirl> laserjock was last seen on #edubuntu 1 day, 12 hours, 12 minutes and 13 seconds ago, saying: sbalneav: I haven't seen him for a while [Sat Aug 11 06:46:20 2007] 
<edubuntugirl> ZAbot: hi.
<highvoltage> oops
<AndyGraybeal> hey guys, i'm wondering... how well does LTSP work?
<AndyGraybeal> and if i don't have a big beefy server.. is it out of the question? ... aswell, i don't have 100MB/s network
<melinate> hey folks.. anyone around that knows about PXE booting?
<melinate> or maybe how to use "rom-o-matic.net"
#edubuntu 2008-08-04
<LaserJock> hi all
<ace_suares> hi LaserJock !
<LaserJock> ace_suares: hi, what's new in Edubuntu land?
<ace_suares> I wish I knew
<ace_suares> I am still fighting with win98 under ltsp to get my education programs working.
<LaserJock> hi ogra
<jimjimovich> ï»¿does someone know of install and configure docs for ubuntu 8.04?  I installed from the alternative cd but have no idea where to go from here
<Feldegast> what state in the system in?
<jimjimovich> actually, got it working.  it would be nice if there were some docs ... maybe i'll have to make some :)
<ogra> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<jimjimovich> this seems to be very outdated
<ogra> its from gutsy
<ogra> one releae behind (the same handbook is installed on your system if you have edubuntu btw)
<jimjimovich> i'm actually upgrading (redoing from scratch) a system that we put in place 2 years ago.
<jimjimovich> oh, i thought it was from 6.06
<jimjimovich> i must say, i'm rather impressed with the 8.04 version
<jimjimovich> very very slick
<ogra> :)
<jimjimovich> i think the main confusion with the docs is the change with the edubuntu server install
<jimjimovich> now that you install it from the Ubuntu alt cd
<jimjimovich> are most of the docs i'll find for gutsy configuration pretty much the same?
<ogra> yeah http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyClassroomServer was supposed to explain that
<ogra> most of the options are, yes
<jimjimovich> that page is nice.  just very hard to find
<jimjimovich> ogra, you're one of the main developers, right?
<ogra> yep
<jimjimovich> i seem to remember talking to you 2 years ago when we first set up our lab
<jimjimovich> so, question for you
<ogra> heh, might be
<jimjimovich> i have one major problem with our lab.  we recently upgraded our internet gateway
<jimjimovich> and it authenticates based on network cards (plus username and password)
<jimjimovich> it's necessary for users to log into this gateway.  the problem is with LTSP, once one person logs in, everyone is sharing their access
<ogra> cant you do it by username ?
<jimjimovich> is there some way to make each user have a different virtual network interface or do some spoofing to make each user look like a different MAC address?
<jimjimovich> well, the gateway authenticates with username
<ogra> identd shoudl give you the ability to tranfer the usernames o the GW
<jimjimovich> but then uses the network device MAC address for keeping track of the session
<ogra> and you cant switch that to usernames a well ?
<ogra> *as
<jimjimovich> well, the problem isn't authentication
<jimjimovich> the problem is that this gateway counts user traffic
<jimjimovich> that's why it binds to the network card after authentication
<jimjimovich> but it's binding to the server network card
<ogra> indeed, because the user session runs on the server
<jimjimovich> exactly
<ogra> thats pretty hard to do ...
<jimjimovich> that's what i figured :(
<ogra> you could run LDM_DIRECTX=True
<jimjimovich> what would that do?
<ogra> that would give you the client ip in the DISPLAY variable
<ogra> it drops ssh encryption
<ogra> similar to what XDMCP did but keeps the ssh tunnel for communicaion of the other services in place and does the password handshake throuh ssh as well
<ogra> so its similar to XDMCP but adds some security
<ogra> the advantage is that you get DISPLAY pointing to the client ip
<ogra> oh, wait, you can get it easier
<jimjimovich> what exactly is DISPLAY?
<ogra> the LTSP_CLIENT variable holds the client ip
<ogra> the display variable is what X uses to output its display :)
<jimjimovich> ok.  i guess the problem then becomes forwarding that info to the gateway
<ogra> but use LTSP_CLIENT ... that way you can get the ip ....
<ogra> with the ip you can do an arp lookup to get the actual client MAC
<jimjimovich> though i think that info doesn't really help me, unfortunatly
<ogra> now how you can spoof that is beyond my knowledge though
<jimjimovich> mine too
<ogra> but that way you have the MAC in your session available
<jimjimovich> thought maybe you'd have heard of a similar situation.  the tips you've given me might lead me in the right direction
<ogra> no, i havent ...
<jimjimovich> you haven't heard of any traffic accounting software that works with ltsp have you?
<ogra> well, probably iptraf run locally on the server
<ogra> but no, not explicitly
<jimjimovich> ok, thanks
<jimjimovich> and thanks for working on all this! it's really saving us a lot of time and money!!!!
<ogra> i hope so :)
#edubuntu 2008-08-05
<josephnexus> hello everyone!
<josephnexus> i'm trying to set up ltsp and all that my thin clients get when trying to boot is File Not Found
<josephnexus> i can connect locally using a tftp client
<josephnexus> but for some reason none of my clients can connect
<josephnexus> they do get a dhcp address
<josephnexus> any ideas?
<josephnexus> brb
<josephnexus> back
<josephnexus> anyone get any ideas about my problem?
<josephnexus> gonna try chaning my interfaces
<wima> i'm noticing some problems with local devices lately
<wima> devices are not mounted anymore when i plug them in
<wima> on the old server everything worked fine
<wima> i used udev to change permissions on /dev/fuse so i didnt have to add all users to the fuse group
<wima> (users are in an ldap db)
<wima> it used to work fine
<wima> installed a new server, and it doesn't work anymore
<wima> does anyone have an idea?
<wima> id i add the user to the fuse group, it works
<ogra> the mounting tool is suid fuse iirc (was changed because users tended to change permissions of the devcie which introduced security holes :) )
<wima> ah
<wima> is there anything i can do about it?
<wima> i'm not really looking forward to putting all the ldap users in the fuse group
<ogra> have a look at /bin/fusermount
<wima> -rwsr-xr-- root fuse
<wima> what does this mean?
<wima> hat it will alwaus execute as root?
<ogra> no
<ogra> that it has a stick group bit set
<ogra> so it will always execute as group fuse
<wima> right
<wima> and why is this a problem?
<wima> i meqn
<wima> where is the permission problem
<ogra> you need to be in eh fuse group
<ogra> remove the sticky bit and change it to root.root
<wima> ok
<wima> thanks
<wima> btw: is anyone considering doing something about this?
<ogra> not me
 * ogra wont break security and doesnt really care about misconfigured ldap setups
<wima> you would put the ldap users in the fuse group?
<ogra> just have a script that adds users to the right group instead of ripping open security holes
<wima> wasn't there a pam module to do this?
<wima> ah. found it!
<wima> pam_group
<ogra> yeah, thats the one
<ogra> way cleaner :)
<wima> super
<wima> thanks
<LaserJock> ogra: hi
<LaserJock> ogra: how's it going over there?
<ogra> LaserJock, busy
<LaserJock> ogra: cmpc?
<ogra> but at least i have released a classmate RC yesterday
<LaserJock> oh, for intrepid?
<ogra> cmpc, my move into mobile ... my older duties i try to get rid of etc
<ogra> nope hardy
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> is it on p.u.c/~ogra/ ?
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> usual place
<LaserJock> I'll try it out today
<ogra> focusing on the newer celeron devices though
<LaserJock> oh, will it still work on mine?
<ogra> but will still work on the old ones
<LaserJock> k, cool
<ogra> yeah, it should
<LaserJock> anything happening much in Education Edition ?
<LaserJock> I was looking at some bugs the other day
<LaserJock> squeak problems that I don't want to get into ;-)
<LaserJock> with openjdk in Main I suppose some Java edu apps might be possible to add?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> even though i think openjdk doesnt ship the browser plugin yet
<ogra> i'll look inot the suqeak ftbfs if i find any time
<LaserJock> ogra: I found the problem, and it's apparently still the same code in squeak-vm SVN
<ogra> but trying to draw back from edu without anyone taking over isnt so easy
<ogra> so it sticks to me
<ogra> and i dont want to be evil
<LaserJock> ogra: they have write() without and error checking or return value checking
<ogra> eeek
<LaserJock> well, the actually do check later if the write worked
<LaserJock> but not via the return value
<ogra> i think the edubuntu CD doesnt look to good atm due to recommends not being sorted yet
<LaserJock> so with our new CFLAGS it FTBFS
<LaserJock> ogra: is it oversized?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> lol
<ogra> we have 400M free
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> cool
<ogra> no way to get that oversized quickly
<LaserJock> have you looked at all at whether Recommends will pull in non-Main packages?
<ogra> they do apparently
<ogra> stgraber looked at it more than i this cycle
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> ogra: get anywhere on the dynamic menu GUI? :-)
<ogra> no, i think i'll have to drop it
<ogra> as well as willow
<LaserJock> did you get a start?
<ogra> the only thing i'll have time for is compcache which is 80% implemented
<ogra> no, not really
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> i'm working 14h/day in the mobile team
<ogra> all i do in edu or ltsp is totally in spare time
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so what is compcache going to do?
<ogra> cut down the ram reqs for ltsp clients and the liveCD
<ogra> and for things like classmate
<LaserJock> oh, that'd be nice
<ogra> it cretes a compressed swapdevice in the systems ram
<ogra> so you can gain up to 1Â§ more ram
<ogra> 1/3
<LaserJock> huh
<LaserJock> what does that do to performance?
<ogra> impacts it slightly
<ogra> but not so much that it would disturb
<LaserJock> does the cost of compression get compensated for by having it in RAM?
<ogra> well, it adds CPU overhead
<ogra> but yes, its in ram so no disk IO involved
<LaserJock> right, that's what I meant by "CPU"
<LaserJock> arg
<LaserJock> meant by "cost"
<LaserJock> ogra: are Edubuntu meetings still being held?
<ogra> not actively recently, no
<ogra> stgraber pushes from time to time ... but  think he gave up ... and we ended being only RichEd, him and me
<ogra> but if there is no community interest what shall we do
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I know what you mean
<stgraber> yeah, I remember a time where edubuntu was a lot more active
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> well, projects have cycles of activity too
<LaserJock> I think edubuntu (or whatever it's being called) could get revived a bit :-)
<ogra> yeah
<stgraber> yeah, I think the main issue is that most of the community is still stuck at Edubuntu=Ubuntu+LTSP+edu softwares
<stgraber> the move to an addon and ltsp to alternate wasn't that much understood
<LaserJock> well
<stgraber> at least that was the result of the 2-3 talks I gave about Edubuntu/LTSP/ubuntu education
<LaserJock> I think a clear purpose, a clear mission, a clear Roadmap are helpful
<LaserJock> there was definitely a shift of emphasis with LTSP moving out, but I'm not sure we really figured out what we wanted to with Ubuntu Education Edition
<LaserJock> I'm gonna run home, bbiab
<pmfranco> Hola Edubunteros
<pmfranco> me pueden ayudar???
<pmfranco> necesito encontrar themes para mi edubuntu, por favor
#edubuntu 2008-08-06
<IntangibleLiquid> hello
<IntangibleLiquid> we are thinking about using Edubuntu to teach disadvantaged children about computing
<IntangibleLiquid> I wonder if anyone of you here has used/ know of people who used/ Edubuntu for such purpose
<IntangibleLiquid> something that the Ubuntu Education Fund has done
<coolio> anyone here that can assist with geode driver
<Matrikz> hmm
<Matrikz> how do you check to see how much ram you have installed in a edubuntu system?
<ogra> cat /proc/meminfo |grep -i total
<ogra> would be a commandline way
<ogra> or use the system monitor from the menu
<Matrikz> ahh yea forgot about that
<Matrikz> sorry just woke up
<Matrikz> can use gkrelm too
<Matrikz> if i installed it
<Matrikz> ty ogra
#edubuntu 2008-08-07
<LaserJock> ogra: I've got a zsync question for you
<LaserJock> I was trying to get the latest cmpc image
<LaserJock> but every time I run zsync it seems like it's downloading the entire image over again
#edubuntu 2008-08-10
<monteslu> did traffic on the edubuntu list slow down quite a bit in recent months?
<monteslu> I'm about to build 2 new servers today, and wondering if I should go back to fedora
<stgraber> monteslu: LTSP is no longer related to Edubuntu, it's now integrated in Ubuntu Alternate. That may explain why the edubuntu project is less active.
<stgraber> the integration of LTSP in Ubuntu is still one of the best and works perfectly
<mbrigdan> anyone know of a program designed to improve mental math? Preferably with a large range of difficulty?
#edubuntu 2009-08-03
<ball> hello nixternal
<ace_suares> anyone tonite?
<ace_suares> hi alkisg
<alkisg> Morning all
<ace_suares> night...
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<nubae> hi highvoltage
<nubae> any news on that ltsp bug?
<nubae> cluster ltsp even
<highvoltage> nubae: hi there, not yet, I talked to stgraber briefly last night and he said that he's been busy/away the last week or so, but that he'll be around again now
<nubae> cool...
<highvoltage> nubae: have you filed a bug against the lbagent package yet?
<nubae> nope :-)
<nubae> will do that now
<highvoltage> nubae: thanks
<nubae> ok done...
<highvoltage> nubae: and subscribe stgraber and myself pls :)
<nubae> done
<highvoltage> hi Michelle_Qimo1 and ace_suares1
<ace_suares> morning all
<highvoltage> morning ace_suares
<ace_suares> how r u ?
<alkisg> 'evening :)
<ace_suares> he he we are half a world away :-)
<highvoltage> ace_suares: doing good thanks and you?
<mhall119|work> morning
<ace_suares> hi michelle
<mhall119|work> hiya ace_suares
<DDOSKING> hi i have an urgent issue if someone coujld help
<mhall119|work> DDOSKING: what's the issue
<qimo> is there a spelling bee game for kids?
<Lns> hmmm, that's a good idea, a network-enabled spelling bee program!
<mhall119|work> fun
<mhall119|work> but you'd need a voice recording of every word, synthesis wouldn't work well in this scenario
<mhall119|work> unless there was a "teacher's console" that would display a word and pronunciation guide, and then the students would enter their spelling
<Lns> mhall119|work: tux4kids does a lot of voice stuff already
<Lns> i wouldn't see that as a big deal recording each word
<mhall119|work> Lns: it would just require a pretty significant number of recordings
<Lns> so?
<Lns> wouldn't take too long once you had a word list :)
<mhall119|work> and a good voice-actor
<mhall119|work> I wonder if we could get Billy West
<Lns> i think we're aiming too high here ;)
<Lns> voice actor is nice in the tux4kids apps already
<Lns> we should hound kendrick (#tux4kids) to make one ;)
<mhall119|work> hmmm, my brother knows George Lowe...
#edubuntu 2009-08-04
<dgroos> someone know where irc logs, kept? Found odds and end dates, but not the continuous archive.
<ace_suares> dgroos: hi
<ace_suares> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com <http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/>
<ace_suares> See https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting
<dgroos> ace_suares: howdy!  Thanks.
<ace_suares> it's so quiet here...
<ace_suares> good night...
<dgroos> And, a good night to you!
<mhall119|work> morning
#edubuntu 2009-08-05
<davew> Hi , I installed 9.04 Ubuntu but it appears to have bugs in Thin Client Manager and  the Profile Editor. Could someone confirm that these were non existent in the earlier version and should I go back to this version ?
<davew> Would add that I patched the Thin Client Manager, but I am not sure that there is a fix for Sabayon
<nubae> davew, thin client manager is deprecated
<nubae> and profile editor is known to have bugs (you may have more luck using the updates from the PPA)
<nubae> instead of thin client manager use iTalc
<davew> Thanks nubae - since I am new to all this who or what is the PPA and is iTalc "built in"
<nubae> sudo apt-get install italc for italc
<davew> Have to disappear for an hour or so but would like to chat with you later. Urgency is that I am setting up a system for 30 Thin clients. I have a working server but have to have the profile control and administration which is really what it is all about.
<nubae> and PPA = personal package archive, do a search for ppa and sabayon
<nubae> that should bring it up (sabayon = profile manager)
<davew> O.K. Will do just that when I come back and see how far I get. Many thanks !
<Lns> http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/08/05/1625257/Whats-In-an-Educational-Game
<qimo> sooo ... after using xubuntu for a week standalone on the same pc's that the ltsp server was serving too, it makes more sense for me to run xubuntu on these rather than ltsp and use LDAP with NFS
<Ahmuck-Jr> was i away too long?
<Ahmuck-Jr> either i have something mis-configured on ltsp or it's just a bad idea (tm)
<ace_suares1> hey... look at this: http://education.zdnet.com/?p=2905&tag=nl.e623 (the state of edubuntu)
<Ahmuck-Jr> ace_suares1: my experience has been mixed
<Ahmuck-Jr> but when the standalone works better than any client did, i'm seriously looking into something else
<Ahmuck-Jr> even a daily go around and type in update, safe-upgrade every day would have been less time spent then what i spent on ltsp
<Ahmuck-Jr> nn
#edubuntu 2009-08-06
<humboldt> I am having trouble installing binary nvidia drivers.
<humboldt> The trouble is, that my ltsp chroot has a different kernel version installed than the server, so the build process for nvidia-glx-180 does not go through successfully
<humboldt> any ideas?
#edubuntu 2009-08-07
<jjara> hello guys
<jjara> can u please help me in my problem in ubuntu 9.04 server
<davew> Any body about to talk about profile editor ?
<davew> Any body got experience of using ppa's ?
#edubuntu 2009-08-08
<Pupuser402-1> stuff
<ace_suares1> hey ogra
<ace_suares1> is everybody extermely busy with some karmic cycle or on vacation or what.... it's very veyr quiet...
<out-of-hand> good evening to everyone ... can someone please assist me .. im still new to Ubuntu. i have already got Edubuntu Gcompris 8.4.4 installed , i see there is a updated version or Gcompris 8.4.12 . i downloaded Gcompris 8.4.12.tar.gz .... but having difficulty trying to understand how to i install the new version ? can anyone assist me ?
<alkisg> !info gcompris
<ubottu> gcompris (source: gcompris): Educational games for small children. In component main, is optional. Version 8.4.4-1.1ubuntu4 (jaunty), package size 457 kB, installed size 1568 kB
<out-of-hand> huh ?
<alkisg> out-of-hand: you'd have to compile from source, or backport it to hardy... That would be hard for someone new to ubuntu
<alkisg> That version that you say is only present in the development version, 9.10, which will be out in October
<out-of-hand> yes agreed , im trying to google it .. and find a way to install it ... although from my understanding i see in the tar.gz file a file called "intltool-update" and gcompris-installer.nsi.in ... but i have no idea what im doing when i click them to open
<out-of-hand> oh ... ok
<alkisg> nsi is the windows nsis installer, it isn't used in ubuntu
<alkisg> So the best thing to do I think would be to stick to the packaged version :)
<out-of-hand> ok :) thanks ... i was un aware it was nsi ... windows installer
<out-of-hand> is there anywhere i can learn basics or shell commands ? i hate the idea that i get stuck ... used to stupid windows EXE  and self installers
<alkisg> The tar.gz is the whose source code, which can be compiled for linux distros or windows. But if you're new to linux, then compiling from source will only bring you trouble
<out-of-hand> alkisg thanks for that ... i was confused
<alkisg> I'm sure google will show a lot of tutorials for shell introduction...
<alkisg> ...I don't have something specific to propose to you, though
<out-of-hand> oh .. not a problem :) u have been helpful :) thanks alot
<alkisg> You're welcome
<out-of-hand> cant i get some code like all security updates on a CD ... basically what i need to do it install a fresh version of ubuntu and the pc has not internet, so i would like to download the all current updates on a cd and install it via the cd ? is there a way?
<out-of-hand> is it a off line repository ---  i think ?
#edubuntu 2009-08-09
<manakfula> Hello everyone, I have a couple quick questions about edubuntu
<manakfula> I'm familiar with ubuntu so it's nothing really technical
<manakfula> and I apologize if I get disconnected, my wireless sucks...I'll be back if that happens
<manakfula> does edubuntu come with a spanish distribution or spanish language option at the time of installation?
<manakfula> (im not sure if that whole message went through or not I only see part of it)
<manakfula> I'll retype it incase it didn't...does it come with a spanish disto or installation option?
<manakfula> or just the spanish learning/tutor program?
<Manakfula> sorry about that told you my wireless sucks
<Manakfula> so is anyone here or is the room just idle?
<davew> Am trying to use the profile editor in 9.04 but there is a bug in it. Actually this is one feature that I need as I am using LTSP with 30 clients. Anyone got any ideas
<alkisg> davew: sbalneav is trying to fix the bugs and hopes it'll be ready for 9.10. There's a new version at his PPA that works for some people.
<davew> Have tried the sbalneav fix and it didn't work for me - are you saying it doesn't work for everybody ?
<alkisg> Yup. I don't know the last ubuntu version that sabayon worked in, maybe it was back in gutsy or something...
<alkisg> davew: what exactly do you want to lock with sabayon? Maybe there are ways to do it with gconf...
<davew> Oh dear I'm in trouble. Without this I don't know what I can do !!!
<davew> Do you know when 9.10 which I presume is the next version is out ?
<alkisg> 9 = 2009, 10 = 10th month = october
<davew> Understood - I am in trouble ! I understand that Sabayon has not worked for about 12 months, is that true ?
<alkisg> Well, I bet it's working right now for people that have older ubuntu versions...
<alkisg> But yeah, I don't think it has worked in the recent ubuntu releases
<davew> O.K. Thanks for that I will have to strip out 9.04 and put in something older or another distro which has similar features. Thanks for your help I have been trying to get some information for several days. Cheers .
<alkisg> davew: but again, it may be possible to lock down your desktop for your clients with gconf-editor
<davew> Will this allow me to do it globally  for say a particular group ?
<alkisg> Hmmm kind of. Global locking is global, not per group. But you could copy the settings on all members of a group.
<davew> O.K.  I'll have a look - thanks again .
<alkisg> Bye
<mss> hello ... I have been facing the hardy release DHCP issue seen by others such as :
<mss> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2008-December/004911.html
<mss> above
<mss> Today I captured some logs from my system, turning on one client at a time ...and logs show how slow things get ..
<mss> where can I upload so experts can take a look ?
<mss> I have captured daemon and kern logs among others
<mss> hi alkisg
<alkisg> Hello mss, hi all
<mss> we spoke a few days ago about the hardy DHCP problem :
<mss> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2008-December/004911.html
<mss> I have daemon, kern and other logs showing the problem
<mss> I booted clients one at a time ....the first two boot fast .. the next few start slowing down ...
<alkisg> mss, it seems like your case is a dhcp server problem, but then again, I'm not sure, e.g. "slowing down"? Aquiring a dhcp lease should only take some msec...
<mss> yes .. I understand that ....but it has now been seen by several folks that this DHCP "slowing down" problem exists ...
<mss> in some cases ....
<alkisg> Any links for bug reports?
<alkisg> mss: an easy thing to try would be another dhcp server, e.g. dnsmasq
<alkisg> This way you would be sure if it is or not a dhcp3-server - related problem
<mss> I could try that ..but am not clear on exactly how to set up a different dhcp server ... other folks who have moved to a different dhcp server, fould it works fine .
<alkisg> mss: also, try to post in #ltsp-discuss, you may have additional chances for an answer there...
<mss> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2008-December/004914.html
<mss> looks like nobody has filed a bug yet ...
<alkisg> "We figured that as the box got busy serving up the tftp kernels the dhcp would start to fail/timeout." I haven't heard of anyone having this problem, though...
<alkisg> You may try dnsmasq like this:
<alkisg> sudo invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server stop
<alkisg> sudo apt-get install dnsmasq
<alkisg> create an /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp.conf file with:
<alkisg> port=0 # this makes dnsmasq *not* function as a dns server
<alkisg> dhcp-range=10.160.31.100,10.160.31.120,8h  # change with your specific range
<alkisg> sudo invoke-rc.d dnsmasq restart
<mss> The logs I captured show exactly htis problem .
<alkisg> ===> after that, try to boot the clients.
<mss> thanks .. I will try dnsmasq like you sugested ..
<alkisg> mss: do you have a small log part that shows that the server gets a dhcp_discover, and doesn't answer with a dhcp_offer?
<alkisg> If so, you should definately file a bug against dhcp3-server...
<mss> yes ...I have the logs ... it answers .. but very slowly .. let me pul it up for you ...
<mss> here's the first client .
<mss> Aug  9 12:48:54 coco dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:1e:0b:39:fa:d1 via eth1
<mss> Aug  9 12:48:55 coco dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.0.245 to 00:1e:0b:39:fa:d1 via eth1
<mss> Aug  9 12:48:57 coco dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.0.245 (192.168.0.254) from 00:1e:0b:39:fa:d1 via eth1
<mss> Aug  9 12:48:57 coco dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.0.245 to 00:1e:0b:39:fa:d1 via eth1
<alkisg> The client needed 2 seconds to process the offer and request it? !!!
<mss> here's the next client by which time things start to slow down
<mss> Aug  9 13:02:44 coco dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:1e:0b:39:fa:ef via eth1
<mss> Aug  9 13:03:09 coco dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.0.247 to 00:1e:0b:39:fa:ef via eth1
<mss> Aug  9 13:03:34 coco dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.0.247 (192.168.0.254) from 00:1e:0b:39:fa:ef via eth1
<mss> Aug  9 13:03:59 coco dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.0.247 to 00:1e:0b:39:fa:ef via eth1
<alkisg> Yeah that *doesn't* look like a dhcp problem to me, but a network problem
<alkisg> If it was a server problem, the client wouldn't need (34-09) seconds to process the offer and send a request
<mss> the strange thing is ....even before the DHCPDISCOVER shows up in the log ... I can see the client has already acquired the address and on its way ..
<mss> but the DHCPACK shows up much later in the log ..
<alkisg> There are 2 dhcp requests for each client, did you know that?
<alkisg> One during the pxe boot, and one later *after* the kernel boots
<mss> yes .... I showed only the first of each client
<alkisg> Ah... well then I still don't see this as a dhcp server problem
<alkisg> If a client is booted and you try to operate it when other clients boot, does it function correctly, or is it very very slow?
<alkisg> E.g. having both full duplex and half duplex clients on the same switch can bring down the network speed to a crawl...
<mss> well....the first three- four clients boot....
<mss> then the rest do not get any response  in time before the client times out ..
<mss> all clients are identical .. hp5135s
<alkisg> ok, but during this "clients do not get any response" phase, if you try to sit down on a client a work on it, does it work fine, or is it slow? If it were slow, this would suggest a network problem...
<mss> the clients that are up seem to work fine ....
<alkisg> Can you upload a full log file somewhere?
<mss> yes ..have all the logs
<mss> can I email ... only 400k
<alkisg> OK... my nickname at gmail dot com
<alkisg> also, what NICs do the clients have?
<mss> clients ? no idea, but I know other have been using these clients fine ....
<alkisg> With the same distro?
<alkisg> (and version)?
<mss> sent email - it is a zip file of all logs
<mss> yes ...
<mss> I believe Asmo Koskinen asmo.koskinen at arkki.info  is using them ..
<mss> saw him mention in one of his posts
<mss> 8.04.10 .. last updated 12 days ago with all current (at that time ) updates
<mss> client has 128 MB ram ... shoud that be an issue ?
<alkisg> No
<alkisg> ...but even with the first client, there are problems: http://alkisg.pastebin.com/d2b2bbb97
<alkisg> Even though the client gets a dhcp_ack, it requests the same IP again
<mss> I thought that was the kernel
<alkisg> There are 3 acks tehre
<alkisg> 1 = pxe, 2 = kernel, 3 = problem
<mss> every client does this twice ....
<mss> but there are only 2 DISC/OFFER s
<mss> you are saying the last pair of lines REQUEST/ACK is a problem ?
<alkisg> I'm saying that it seems to ignore the "12:49:16 coco dhcpd: DHCPACK"
<alkisg> So, if it doesn't get the first ack, it seems like a network problem exists even with 1 client
<mss> or if the dhcp server is slow and it gets two reqs one after the other ... is it possible it is responding to both ?
<alkisg> Hmmmm though I had send a patch last year for ipconfig that had to do with DHCPNAKs, maybe it didn't make it for 8.04 and that bug is still there
<alkisg> http://www.zytor.com/pipermail/klibc/2008-June/002311.html
<mss> it says your patch was applied :-)
<alkisg> Yeah I know, but I don't know if it make it for hardy
<alkisg> I think it's only fixed in 8.10 and 9.04...
<mss> thought it should have at least made it to 8.04.10
<alkisg> But anyway mss I don't think that ipconfig is your main problem here
<alkisg> I mean, in the second client dhcp takes dozens of seconds!!!
<mss> I will try the dnsmasq and see how it goes ... I have the ltsp setup at a remote location ( no internet) .. so I can take the dnsmasq.deb file and install .. correct ?
<mss> yes ... and then it gets wors ....
<alkisg> I think you'll need 2 debs, dnsmasq.deb and dnsmasq-base.deb
<alkisg> But do try this:
<alkisg> 1. Boot 4-5 clients (as many as they boot)
<alkisg> 2. Try to work on one of them. Does it work ok?
<mss> but when I left the system alone for a few hours and came back and booted a client .. the first one again came up fast and fine ... then the second one slowed .. and the process repeated ...
<alkisg> Ah
<mss> it is in the logs ...
<alkisg> 3. After a while, open another client and see if it boots fast <== you just answered that
<mss> after 14:xx . I came back at 17:xx
<alkisg> You don't even have dhcpd.conf in the logs, though...
<mss> in the logs
<alkisg> Nor /etc/network/interfaceds
<mss> dhcpd conf standard as edubuntu requires .. done during installation .. nothing special
<mss> attached ifconfig .. if it helps
<alkisg> I wonder if it's a tftp problem, i.e. the whole network slows down when the clients get the kernel via tftp
<mss> possible ... could you take a loo at kern logs ... it just keeps going on for a client log after the login screen is presented on the clinet ..is that a problem ?
<mss> but each client should take no more than 10 secs to get the image
<mss> on a FE LAN
<alkisg> Yeah, unless there's a problem :) (which is the only thing certain here :))
<alkisg> I've seen tftp needing half an hour to server a kernel in problematic cases...
<alkisg> *serve
<mss> :-)
<mss> if the PHY is messed up and retransmissions happen .. I guess it can happen
<alkisg> How difficult would it be to try out 9.04? E.g. in a different partition?
<alkisg> The installation takes < 30 mins...
<mss> I am trying to set up a different system in a couple of days .. I can try 9.04 on that
<mss> is it a LTS release ?
<alkisg> No, but it was released a year later than 8.04, so they'll be supported for about the same time (only 6 months difference)
<mss> so .. I will try both the dnsmasq and the 9.04 and let you know in a day or two ...
<mss> thanks for your help
<alkisg> mss, ps:
<alkisg>  /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/dhcpd-dnsmasq <== example file for dnsmasq config
 * alkisg gotta go... bye all
<mss> thanks
#edubuntu 2010-08-09
<coz_> hey guys...just noticed that the kde applications do not fully use the gtk theme of the system...is there a way to force the kde apps to conform to the gtk theme?
<Ahmuck> hi dgroos
<dgroos> Howdy Ahmuck
<dgroos> How's it going?
<Ahmuck> alright
<dgroos> your computers/server behaving?
<Ahmuck> i closed the labs
<dgroos> hmmm...  maybe I knew that.  When was that?  I know that it was a volunteer project for you and a big one.  Using edubuntu personally at the present or otherwise?  I'm using it on my home computer and hope that it'll work as LTSP in my classroom in 2 weeks!
#edubuntu 2010-08-10
<mhall119> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> mhall119: pongggggg
<mhall119> I have had absolutely zero time to work on qimo-session-gnome
<mhall119> would we be better of planning on inclusion in 11.04?
<mhall119> I don't want to hold up your installer work
<highvoltage> mhall119: ok, thanks for the heads-up, perhaps it might be better for 11.04 then, I'll poke you some other time about it, maybe we can still squeeze it in, but no pressure!
<mhall119> I'll let you know if I get a chance to work on it
<mhall119> but my schooling starts again on the 24th, so it's not looking likely
<highvoltage> well there's a *slight* chance that I might be able to do some of it, but it's also too much of a gamble :)
<mhall119> if, by some chance, I get a couple evenings to myself, I might be able to get something beta-worthy in time
<mhall119> in time for beta that is
<mhall119> it'd have to go through FFE though, right?
<mhall119> have we hit FF yet?
<highvoltage> mhall119: it's thursday
<mhall119> pretty much
<mhall119> we'll see what I can get done
<highvoltage> mhall119: I could potentially get a rough session in tomorrow that's calledsomething like qimo-session-gnome
<highvoltage> and then the rest could just be bugs that need to be fixed :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: yeah,  but I'd hate for something like that to end up in the Maverick repos if we don't get to finish it
<highvoltage> mhall119: very valid point!
<mhall119> I think if I can get something good done in the next couple weeks, I could get another FFE
<mhall119> otherwise it can wait until 11.04
<highvoltage> *nod*
<mhall119> do I need to repackage my lucid packages for maverick?  or do the existing ones automatically get rebuilt?
<highvoltage> existing ones have been rebuilt
<mhall119> cool
<mhall119> I'll have some bug fixes to those, but they can be done after FFE
<vmlintu_> evening everyone
<alkisg> Good evening
<vmlintu_> I've been following debian-edu's development efforts around ldap/kerberos/etc lately I'm wondering if anyone using Edubuntu is aware of those..
<highvoltage> vmlintu_: I follow it on the debian-edu channel and list
<highvoltage> (haven't tried it out yet)
<vmlintu_> highvoltage: I'm about to try it soon, but from the mailing list it looks like the same kind of setup as we've been using for some time
<vmlintu_> highvoltage: do you have any plans in this area for your deployments?
<highvoltage> vmlintu_: not quite
<highvoltage> vmlintu_: but it would be nice to have
<vmlintu_> hightvoltage: most people here have been on vacation, so not all the code is on github yet, but we should get ldap based management tools out quite soon
<vmlintu_> -t sorry, highvoltage.. I shouldn't type everything myself..
<highvoltage> vmlintu_: great :)
<highvoltage> ubuntu feature freeze is on thursday
<highvoltage> so I guess it might be a bit late for maveverick, but even a ppa would be a great start :)
<vmlintu_> We'll be running it on 10.04 for quite some time..
<vmlintu_> I'm just wondering if everyone using these is actually using Debian-Edu now..
<highvoltage> people use ldap on edubuntu/ubuntu, they just do their own thing currently
<highvoltage> not as nice as having something standard and easy though
<vmlintu_> I know
<vmlintu_> sorry
<vmlintu_> I know that some people are using Gosa, but I don't know how well it's working..
<highvoltage> we use gosa at revolutionlinux and at some clients, it works quite well
<vmlintu_> we didn't get it working that well back when we tested.. maybe we tried some broken version..
<vmlintu_> ...or probably I just didn't know what I was doing..
<vmlintu_> btw, what's happening with ltsp-cluster?
<stgraber> gosa is great though to have it usable by a human being, it's usually good to disable most modules and options
<stgraber> also, if you want to install it, take revolutionlinux's ppa. The stable upstream releases are very old and the latest upstream dev release is broken.
<stgraber> our package is a mix of the last working dev release + the changes of the latest + some more not-yet-upstream patches
 * stgraber is getting good at typing on a n900 :)
<vmlintu_> stgraber: what modules are you using?
<vmlintu_> based on debian-edu mailing list it looks like gosa is getting fixed
<stgraber> really not that many, mostly user management and sudo
<stgraber> and limiting user management to unix and windows accounts
<stgraber> I'm pretty sure most of the other modules work, though we don't really have a use for it (our package contains everything, we just strip it once configured by commenting them in gosa.conf)
<vmlintu_> ok.. I'll have a new look at it to get ideas for Puavo..
<stgraber> would be awesome if debian gets a 0.9.x gosa in the distro, they used to go with the older release because that's what upstream calls stable
<bencrisford> highvoltage, meeting tommorrow night?
<bencrisford> actually, I guess its not night for you anymore over in canada :D
<stgraber> bencrisford: it'll almost be the morning for me (currently in California) and it'll be the afternoon for highvoltage ;)
<bencrisford> stgraber, haha, awesome :D so its on?  I might be a little late, but I should be attending this one.  I've been absent for a few weeks
<stgraber> bencrisford: I don't think anyone canceled it ;) I'm currently at a customer, so I'm really not sure of my availabilities tomorrow afternoon, but if I can, I'll be there.
<bencrisford> stgraber, okey dokey :)
#edubuntu 2010-08-11
<lov255> Hello
 * lov255 is a ubuntu noob
<lov255> anyone here?
<highvoltage> stgraber: went for a long walk with mgariepy tonight
<stgraber> highvoltage: cool
<dgroos> Hey All -- meeting in 2.5 hours?
<highvoltage> dgroos: yep
 * bencrisford does the math...  So thats 19.00 UTC? :D
<bencrisford> highvoltage, ^
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yep!
<dgroos> highvoltage: still looking for agenda additions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda ?
<highvoltage> dgroos: not actively :) but feel free to add!
<dgroos> will do!
<dgroos> done!
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting time! (sorry I lost track of time!)
<bencrisford> highvoltage, meeting time? :)
<highvoltage> yep
<dgroos> see you in #ubuntu-meeting
<alkisg> highvoltage: do we have some ability to add factoids here? e.g. !learn setup-ltsp as https://wiki.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/installLTSPlucid ?
<alkisg> !pastebin
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<alkisg> !setup-ltsp is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/installLTSPlucid
<alkisg> "Your edit request has been forwarded to #ubuntu-ops.  Thank you for your attention to detail"
<dgroos> alkisg: that's a great idea.  Also, we ought to have an index page for a simple list of these factoids.
<dgroos> !index
<dgroos> see.  hmmph!
<alkisg> dgroos: http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi
<alkisg> But most facts are common to all ubuntu channels, not just edubuntu, we need to request in #ubuntu-ops which facts we want just for #edubuntu
<dgroos> got it and they work on all ubuntu-related sites?
<dgroos> yes :)
<dgroos> maybe a link to that page would be helpful to have on the intro note that appears when one enters this channel.  Maybe.
<dgroos> Yea, and anyway, how do you get that passive structure: "â¢ dgroos things that..."? :)
<dgroos> just doing the option-8 thing or is it a command?
<highvoltage> alkisg: we have a bot but she's asleep. I actually got some nice hosting again last week, so I'll put her revival on my todo list :)
<highvoltage> ah, ubottu is here. cool :)
<alkisg> Ah, that'd be much easier :)
<alkisg> But I think you have the rights to teach ubottu, right?
<alkisg> I.e. add edubuntu-specific facts to it...
#edubuntu 2010-08-12
<thulsi5> Helo
<alkisg> Hi
<mhall119> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> mhall119: pong
<mhall119> so I played around with some gconf stuff while waiting for my wife to have her tonsils removed
<mhall119> and I've got it keeping separate configs for default Gnome and Qimo sessions
<mhall119> I'm currently getting a gconf sanity check warning about my config files being in use by another process, but it doesn't seem to break anything
<highvoltage> well, that
<highvoltage> well, that's progress, at least :)
<mhall119> that is progress
<highvoltage> also, I remember when my tonsils were removed. I just had to hint that my throat was sore and my parents went out and bought me ice-cream
<mhall119> yeah, that's on my grocery list
<highvoltage> my throught was only sore for like, 3 days but I exploited it for another 6 months :)
<mhall119> they tell us it's worse doing it when you're an adult...
<highvoltage> *nod* I've heard so to
<highvoltage> *too
<highvoltage> (stupid keyboard)
<mhall119> anyway, I'll keep plugging along on this, not sure when it'll be packaged though
<highvoltage> mhall119: well, it would be nice if we could still make it in before all the final freezes. no particular pressure though :)
<mhall119> the final freeze today?
<highvoltage> nope, that's feature freeze
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> I'll do my bestest
<highvoltage> so it's really supposed to be in by today, but we can get a freeze exception still if it can be ready soon
<highvoltage> and ubuntu is currently kind of inbetween release managers, which might make it harder to get exceptions later on
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> when is the deadline today?
<highvoltage> yep, feature freeze happened a few hours ago
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> I'll still get a package made as quickly as possible
<highvoltage> it will be great if you can, just don't stretch yourself too thin!
<mhall119> too late, I've been stretched thin for years
<mhall119> woot! got rid of the gconf warning
<mhall119> I think I'm beginning to understand how this crazy system works
#edubuntu 2010-08-13
<g4tsu> Hi. I've got a problem with Italc+LTSP on edubuntu. I launch ica on port 58001 on a workstation. I can do a telnet ip_workstation 58001 but when I add a computer in italc with this informations, I have "Host not responding"
<g4tsu> Any Idea ?
<g4tsu> (Apologies for my bad english)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: ping-a-ling
<leveldoc> hi ppl
<leveldoc> can someone give me pointers on how to effectively demo edubuntu?
<mhall119> dinda: is there a way to get a few promotional CDs, stickers or shirts to use when presenting to a school?
<leveldoc> does anyone have a presentation for edubuntu?
<coz_> hey guys... I brought this up once let me say again.... I notice on some kde applications that knotify4 starts up... now I dont use digikam so I dont think I need this to actually run applications but  some games  like kreversi always start knotify4  so I went into /usr/bin and changed the executable to knotify4.old
<coz_> any issues this might cause?
<dinda> mhall119: you can contact maria randazzo, she's doing the shipit for locos and such
<highvoltage> bencrisford: pongalong-will-be-back-in-5-min
<mhall119> dinda: can you give leveldoc her email?
 * bencrisford will ping highvoltage again in 5 :)...
<dinda> mhall119: sure, tell them to email me:  dinda AT ubuntu.com
<mhall119> leveldoc: ^^^
<leveldoc> dinda, mhall119: done
<highvoltage> bencrisford: howdy :)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: yo :) I was pinging you to ask whether it would be a good idea to email a couple of ubuntu tutorial websites and suggest some edubuntu tutorials
<highvoltage> bencrisford: that would be nice!
<bencrisford> I was on this site http://ubuntuvideotutorials.wordpress.com/ after techunit commented on a couple of blog posts of mine, and he has an install guide for a ton of derrivatives, but no edubuntu
<bencrisford> highvoltage: so i'll email there and a couple of other sites?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yep, I guess it would probably be a good idea to start with one or two at a time, might be easier to keep track of, I'll leave it to your good judgement :)
<highvoltage> coz_: not that I can think of, someone on #kubuntu might be able to tell you for sure
<bencrisford> highvoltage: heh, well I'll email this guy techunit and see how he feels about making an install guide.  If he makes one we can use the teams blog/tweet/dent/MList/ing powers to spread it and then see what people think :)
<coz_> highvoltage,   sounds reasonable thanks :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: good idea
<dinda> highvoltage: are there any 'official' Edubuntu CDs/DVD being produced anymore?  the ones with the shiny covers?
<dinda> highvoltage: a group from Mozambique just contacted me to get them some Edubuntu CD/DVDs
<bencrisford> dinda: I'm not sure, but I think they were available some time ago, but were discontinued by canonical
<dinda> bencrisford: yeah, that's what I thought, thanks
<mhall119> dinda: I bet leveldoc would like some too
<dinda> mhall119: yeah i don't think they're being produced anymore by canonical
<mhall119> maybe ondisk.com?
<mhall119> on-disk.com that is
<dinda> mhall119: is that where you get the qimo CDs made?  or do you them yourself?
<mhall119> dinda: they sell Qimo CDs, the ones we had at SCaLE we had run ourselves
<mhall119> on-disk.com will print individual CDs and sells them at cost
<mhall119> we just need someone to upload the ISO and cover art
<dinda> mhall119: the request from this trainer in mozambique was for any educational linux CD, how much would 20 QIMO CD cost me?
<mhall119> dinda: I don't have any to send, unfortunately
<mhall119> $79.80 from on-disk.com though
<mhall119> not sure about extra shipping for Mozambique
<mhall119> http://on-disk.com/product_info.php/products_id/1054
<mhall119> dinda: hal from the NY team works at on-disk.com, he might be able to give you better rates or bulk pricing
<mhall119> their disks have a small on-disk.com watermark on them, but otherwise very nice
<dinda> mhall119: thanks, I've asked maria for info on getting leveldoc and me some CDs, will ask her about any potential issues with shipping to mozambique
<mhall119> cool
<dinda> sometimes our stuff gets stopped in customs and sometimes receivers are asked to pay extra costs
<mhall119> you're talking Ubuntu CDs, right?
<dinda> mhall119: yeah, that's all we have right now
<dinda> but in general curious about shipping to such countries
<mhall119> that's what I thought, last time I asked they said shipit wouldn't print other CDs
<isakill> hello
<isakill> My wife and I are attempting to homeshcool our children and a lesson planner solution for linux is needed..  is there an answer?  Preferably a local solution not web based.
#edubuntu 2010-08-14
<jbicha> I'm having problems with gconf & edubuntu-artwork in Maverick
<dinda> isakill:  there are some general lesson plans and resources that use free software
<dinda> isakill: let see if I can find some links for you
<mhall119> isakill: would you settle for a locally-hosted webapp?
<dinda> isakill: if you post your query to the ubuntu educators list, I'm sure others can help you find good sources
<isakill> dinda, ubuntu educators list?
<dinda> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-education
<dinda> gotta run, bbl
<coz_> hey guys do I need akonaditray  or akonadi at all on edubuntu?
<alkisg> !info virtualbox-ose maverick
<ubottu> virtualbox-ose (source: virtualbox-ose): x86 virtualization solution - base binaries. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.2.6-dfsg-2ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 8830 kB, installed size 31360 kB (Only available for amd64 i386 lpia all)
<kurt__> hi
<kurt__> Is anyone here able to help me with a Microphone problem I have on 64-Bit ubuntu 10.04 ?
<alkisg> Hi kurt__, you can ask here of course, but I don't know if you'll get any answers, this channel is for edubuntu-specific topics, for general ubuntu topics #ubuntu is preferred...
<kurt__> ahh I tried in there :/
<kurt__> it was impossible lol
<kurt__> couldnt get a straight answer and no one would stick with me, im completly new to this and had no idea what i was supposed to do :(
<alkisg> Heh, yeah, #ubuntu can be overwhealming.... maybe try some forum or mailing list instead?
<kurt__> but basically when i record with my microphone and play back or use my mic with skype the sound produced from my microphone seems to have some interference playing quite loud in the background and the actual sound of my voice is broke up and hard to hear i dunno why its like that :(
<kurt__> im trying a forumn only had one reply so far which was explaining what an alsa driver is and why its needed etc but didnt really say to install gnome pulse audio was just kinda saying it was needed so i installed it...now what lol >.< nothing ha changed apart from i hada  new volume control lol so i unstalled it since it didnt seem to do anything
<kurt__> so was hoping i could get some help in here
<kurt__> from the silence im guessing nobody here can help with my problem to lol ? :P
#edubuntu 2010-08-15
<Dug__> hi
<Dug__> Is there anyone available who can help with what i think is an Alsa Driver and PulseAudio problem please ? im new to linux and not sure what else i can do to sort my audio problem
#edubuntu 2011-08-08
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning and welcome back mgariepy
<vmlintu> good afternoon
<Hyperbyte> Hey :)
#edubuntu 2011-08-09
<smulcahy> hi - any suggestions on best software to teach an older person to use a mouse?
<smulcahy> I'm looking at things like gcompris but not sure if the kids approach will put off an older person
#edubuntu 2011-08-11
<drayagirl> Hello =)
<JakeR003> hello
<alkisg> Hi
<JakeR003> how are you ?
#edubuntu 2011-08-13
<petulko_> Requires a program to teach vocabulary. Which to use?
<Tracer_> Hello?
<Tracer_> Jello?
#edubuntu 2012-08-06
<mjaiteh> I am having trouble with the lts.conf file on my ltsp server, anyone care to help?
<alkisg> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<alkisg> Also try #ltsp, as we have factoids with some premade-answers there, so support is easier there
<mjaiteh> well my ltsp server is running but i can't login through my thinclient
<alkisg> Can you ssh to the server with the username/password you're trying to login with?
<alkisg> (from some other pc)
<mjaiteh> yes
<alkisg> Did you change your server IP address? If so, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys and ltsp-update-image
#edubuntu 2012-08-07
<jocarter> stgraber: mvo has an interest in weblive? or has canonical finally decided to use it? :)
<stgraber> jocarter: nope, but some code from that branch is included in the software-center
<stgraber> jocarter: so as they are moving to python3+pep8, they are sending me patches for the code they copy/paste
<jocarter> aah
<jocarter> bencer: hey there, how are you?
<bencer> jocarter: yup
<bencer> tell me
<jocarter> bencer: I was just trying to get my inbox in some better shape and wondered if my comments on IRC the other day gave you enough of an answer to your question
<jocarter> (regarding the upgrade scenarios)
<stgraber> jocarter: quite a few submissions had an address instead of gps coordinates... I found some random point around what they submitted and updated the DB
<jocarter> stgraber: oh thanks!
<jocarter> stgraber: yes I noticed it in the last one and wondered what it would do
<stgraber> it was putting it somewhere in the middle of an ocean I believe ;)
<stgraber> I probably should write some validation code for that field to force people to enter high precision long/lat coordinates
<jocarter> stgraber: so does the SRU team get a highlight on "SRU team" that they would pick that up?
<stgraber> jocarter: nope, but I nagged half of them in private
<jocarter> ah
#edubuntu 2012-08-08
<snowguy> I have a couple of basic questions abt edubuntu and ltsp (just set it up for the first time).
<snowguy> Here's what I don't understand...
<snowguy> From the documentation it seems like I would need to take a bunch of special steps to add software to the client. But in fact I setup ltsp on edubuntu and when I install something on the server, it automatically is loaded on a thin client.
<snowguy> That's great but I'm having trouble making sense of the documentation. Can anyone help me understand ?
<snowguy> Here's a quote from the LTSPManual.pdf that to me suggests I would need to chroot in order to install/update software on the clients: The reason why it is called a chroot environment is that to install it, the GNU/Linux command chroot is called to
<snowguy> actually set the installation root to /opt/ltsp/<arch>. From there, a scaled-down version of the distribution is
<snowguy> installed. What this means is that for you to manage the chroot, performing such things as updates, all you need to do
<snowguy> is use the chroot command to change the root of your installation. Then you can use all your tools like you normally
<snowguy> would.
<snowguy> I'll hang out for a bit hoping someone stumbles on my question that can help me out. thanks.
<snowguy> anyone there? Is my question just really lame?
<alkisg> What was the question?
<snowguy> I am confused after just installing edubuntu with ltsp.
<snowguy> I thought I would need to chroot to install new apps. but they just seem to work on the thin client if I install them
<snowguy> on the edubuntu server
<snowguy> I'm not sure what to make of the documentation that says I need to chroot.
<snowguy> Does that question make sense?
<alkisg> Yes, it makes sense, but no, you don't need them in the chroot
<alkisg> A chroot is a minimal OS with just enough programs to get the client to boot and connect to the server
<alkisg> After login, the clients work on the server, so any programs installed on the server are automatically available
<alkisg> You only need to install apps in the chroot if you're using "localapps" or "ltsp fat clients"
<alkisg> Which part of the documentation says you need to chroot, so that we change it?
<snowguy> well, I was specifically referring to the ltspmanual.pdf
<snowguy> but maybe it was written assuming I knew more than I did.
<snowguy> here was one quote I found confusing (but now with your explanation makes sense to me)
<snowguy> The reason why it is called a chroot environment is that to install it, the GNU/Linux command chroot is called to
<snowguy> actually set the installation root to /opt/ltsp/<arch>. From there, a scaled-down version of the distribution is
<snowguy> installed. What this means is that for you to manage the chroot, performing such things as updates, all you need to do
<snowguy> is use the chroot command to change the root of your installation. Then you can use all your tools like you normally
<snowguy> would.
<snowguy> So is there really a reason for me to bother updating the chroot if I am only using thin clients? Sounds like not, since it  is only a temporary environment.
<alkisg> That part is talking about the minimal OS needed to boot the clients, if you think it's not making it clear enough that this *isn't* related to the server OS that you see after login, you can file a bug report in the ltsp-docs package
<alkisg> One updates the chroot for the normal reasons that we do OS updates
<alkisg> I.e. bug fixes, security fixes etc
<snowguy> ok. thanks for all your help. I appreciate the response. and thanks for the work on the software.
<alkisg> Even the "boot the client and connect to the server" part can have normal or security bugs :)
<alkisg> You're welcome
<snowguy> got it.
<ajmitch> stgraber: how's the tablet work progressing? my laptop ac adapter has decided to finally die, so I'm out of that for a bit :)
<stgraber> ajmitch: haven't spend much time on it since the weekend, still can't get anything to boot from sd
<ajmitch> damn
 * ajmitch didn't spend any time on it over this last week, was hoping to get back to it this weekend & try & get X installed on the sd card to use the fb
#edubuntu 2012-08-11
<smartboyhw> Hi!
<smartboyhw> Anyone here?
<smartboyhw> God, anyone here?
#edubuntu 2012-08-12
<smartboyhw> Hi!
<smartboyhw> Anyone here?
#edubuntu 2013-08-08
<ni652336> is there anybody?
#edubuntu 2013-08-09
<NCommander> pleia2, ping, skaet recommended I get in touch with you; I've heard that you're the person to get involved with volunteering to help do Edubuntu installed in
<pleia2> NCommander: installed in where?
<alkisg> stgraber, highvoltage: me and Phantomas were looking at samba 4 for school user management (ltsp, windows clients etc), and we saw that you guys are doing something similar for edubuntu 14.04, do you have some time to chat to see if we can share some of the workload (either the same goals, or similar ones...)?
<stgraber> alkisg: I'm a bit busy for the next week or so (at Debconf) but after that, sure, we can talk. I haven't done much Edubuntu Server work lately but I have some scheduled for when I get back so I can get the first version in the archive.
<alkisg> stgraber: cool, we'll ping you after that to at least check if our plans overlap :)
<alkisg> We have some gtk app for user management, we can probably i18n it like epoptes and use your python backend to offer a good user management tool
<alkisg> ...it supports multiple user/group creation, user signups in ltsp environments etc etc
<alkisg> ...shared folders... it's currently only working with /etc/passwd, but we wanted to add samba 4 support for it
<alkisg> And of course we could implement LTSP 6 with samba 4 instead of libpam_sshauth
<stgraber> not interested in a web frontend?
<alkisg> Web front ends are nice but we already have a gtk frontend that does much much more
<alkisg> E.g. with a web front end it's very difficult to "drag" 20 users into a group, to make them member of it
<alkisg> We already have 3-4 different forms for mass user creation etc...
<alkisg> User editing forms, group editing forms...
<stgraber> ok, so I guess we won't be sharing much code then. Edubuntu Server is entirely web managed and I already have user/group management done though not the shiny javascript bits to make mass edit work yet.
<alkisg> You have mass user creation scripts?
<alkisg> Like, userXXclassYY with automatic groups=classYY creation?
<alkisg> Also, LTSP 6 with samba 4 will need a lot of joined effort to work correctly...
<alkisg> Months of work
<stgraber> nope, currently the web UI is fairly simple, though the LDAP code we have behind it makes that kind of stuff pretty easy for someone to implement (just dump an extra plugin)
<stgraber> I'm first trying to get the web UI to cover all the bits we need, so user, group, machine, DNS, sudo, SSH, ... then will work on making it more user friendly ;)
<alkisg> Right, we already have all the GUI + /etc/passwd code, we're just missing the i18n and the ldap backend
<alkisg> But the frontend doesn't matter much, it's just a tiny part of the code
<alkisg> I don't mind about that part much
<alkisg> LTSP 6 will need a lot more time to get right with samba 4...
<alkisg> stgraber: btw, do you have an ETA for samba 4? Currently the ubuntu packages for it are broken...
<alkisg> Will it be trouble-free for 14.04?
<stgraber> alkisg: ah? have they changed recently? they were working fine for me last month
<alkisg> Phantomas says the postinst scripts are broken, there are some bug reports for them
<Phantomas> It has some issues with the postinst
<stgraber> well, as long as you skip most of the postinst but that's fine as I don't like the debconf deploy stuff anyway and just call domain-tool domain ...
<alkisg> OK, next week when we talk I'd also like to ask you about the plans for windows clients, samba DNS (bind or embedded samba), LTSP 6 etc etc
<alkisg> Thanks :)
<stgraber> the goal for Edubuntu Server is to have a central web UI that can be used just as well against AD as against samba4, making migrating from one to the other pretty easy, with all the services in LXC containers and no user interaction with those (everything is scripted)
<alkisg> Nice, but the details there would matter for the tools we're developing, so that they can be used in an edubuntu server default installation too, instead of our customized ubuntu installations
 * alkisg would like to upstream as many of the tools as possible
<alkisg> (meaning, to i18n them instead of just using them here locally)
<alkisg> E.g. for 12.04 we resorted to shipping remastered CDs with gnome-fallback, fixes for greek keyboard, local PPAs, user management tool etc etc, but if we could directly use the edubuntu DVD as the installation media it'd be better for all, not only Greeks
#edubuntu 2013-08-10
<NCommander> pleia2, Sorry about missing your reply ping yesterday (been sick). skaet said I should talk to you if I was interested in getting involved in Edubuntu, and helping get it into devloping nations. I was reading on your blog about the trip to Ghana.
<pleia2> NCommander: so for those projects I was just a participant :) I don't really know a ton about logistics beyond the technical challenges in such environments (which I'm happy to talk about)
<pleia2> NCommander: I'm traveling right now, but if you want to drop me an email at lyz@ubuntu.com I can put you in touch with some actual organizations who are doing this (including the one I worked with) who would know more about the details of getting it in to developing nations
<NCommander> pleia2, that would be lovely. I'd also have some interest in helping get Edubuntu and ARM platforms agreeing with each other more (specifically the LTSP bits)
<pleia2> others in here may be able to help more with that (or probably better, on the mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
#edubuntu 2014-08-06
<highvoltage> stgraber: around?
#edubuntu 2015-08-04
<stgraber> highvoltage: will you have time to help testing 14.04.3 for Edubuntu?
<stgraber> I've got a bunch of colleagues over in Montreal this week so won't have very much time to look at it myself
<stgraber> not really expecting any problem with it though, 14.04.2 was pretty smooth IIRC
<highvoltage> stgraber: yes
<highvoltage> stgraber: will sync and smoketest tonight
<stgraber> thanks!
#edubuntu 2015-08-07
<yarom> hello. I work for a company that change many computers.  I would like to take them to a local school to donate.  They are currently Winxp but old and need reformatting.  I played around with Edubuntu and had my 8, 7, and 4 year olds try it out.  I think it would be great for there school.  If I take the dozen pcs and reformat with Edubuntu, how do we administer them so that students and staff can access?  Do we need to create users for each?
<yarom_> Hello, is anybody there?
<yarom_> exit
<yarom_> quit
#edubuntu 2017-08-08
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.15-0ubuntu6~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.16-0ubuntu2~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (zesty-backports/main) [2.15-0ubuntu6~ubuntu17.04.1 => 2.16-0ubuntu2~ubuntu17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-08-11
<Guest36318> hii
<Guest36318> anyone pls
<ubuntunew> hi
#edubuntu 2018-08-07
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (bionic-proposed/main) [2:10.2.0-3ubuntu3 => 2:10.3.0-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2020-08-05
<Guest_20> Hi All
<GetGNULinux> Hello. I am GLAT agent. Contact me to purchase a license for GNU/Linux ($99 single user, $49 volume).
#edubuntu 2020-08-07
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: bcache-tools (bionic-proposed/main) [1.0.8-2build1 => 1.0.8-2ubuntu0.1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu-server)
