#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-14
<hazrpg> Hmm... I appear to be having some weird troubles that I never use to have with this install :/
<hazrpg> My main enter key on my keyboard just doesn't do anything, I'm having to press enter with my secondary enter (numpad) key
<hazrpg> and for some reason, I can't get the menu and bars to stay on my left screen with TwinView - it keeps placing it on the right screen. Whenever I manage to get it to display on the left screen, I have to move my mouse all the way to the left to appear on the right screen. Which is odd behaviour (dispite looking right on the NVIDIA X Server Settings)
<hazrpg> Its really driving me insane >_<
<hazrpg> Whoop! Fixed my first issue, getting the screens right - can't seem to fix my keyboard issue. Anyone able to help shed some light? Also media buttons aren't working either (mute, volume, etc). I'm using a zboard, I'm guessing its a driver issue.
<hazrpg> hmm, still having trouble getting my keyboard to work properly - any ideas?
<Myrtti> hm
<Myrtti> my kitchen thermometer says it's -26 outside
<shauno> what's your kitchen thermometer doing outside?
<Myrtti> well, the kitchen window outside thermometer
<Myrtti> the assumption is that people go prepare breakfast in the kitchen
<Myrtti> so they check the outdoor temperature while at it
<shauno> ah
<shauno> only time I had to pay attention to temperatures, we had a little station setup, so we'd check from the pc each morning, not the kitchen :)
<Myrtti> http://en.ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/weather/Tampere
<Myrtti> I guess I'll put my woolly tights on top of my leggings
<shauno> ahh.  didn't realise you were nordic
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> morning MooDoo
 * AlanBell likes MooDoo's attitude today
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell how are you?
<MooDoo> :)
<MartijnVdS> https://market.android.com/details?id=com.google.android.apps.androidify
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<hoover> mornin
<DJones> Morning all, happy valentines day to all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just got 2 presents from Mrs TheOpenSourcerer: A Funny Book and a Bottle of Fleurie :-D
<DJones> Heh, my present was my wife stayed in bed as I got up for work
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<diplo> morning
<screen-x> morning :)
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: that is a very nice drop of plonk
<danfish> morning
<danfish> my wife's given me the flu for valentine's day :(
<DJones> danfish: At least she's a sharing & caring type of person
<AlanBell> go to a doctors and demand antibiotics just for kicks :)
<danfish> DJones: she can keep this present!
<DJones> Is it a cold, flu, or man flu though, that'll be decision maker for how much sympathy she gives you
<danfish> AlanBell: I'm there already and I've said no to myself. Lodging an official complaint against myself ;)
<danfish> DJones: man flu, so little sympathy.
<DJones> I thought if you had flu & worked in a medical practise (hospital/doctors etc) they sent you home so you didn't pass it on to patients
<DJones> Or has my wife just been skiving
<danfish> DJones: we're short staffed this week, so alcohol gel, mask and get on with it :(
<DJones> :)
<pr0ph3t> morning all
<AlanBell> czajkowski: need any Ubuntu CDs for the plugfest?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: na, she's seen the future: a red fedora
<MooDoo> :)
<AlanBell> I will ask Jon then, he seems set on Ubuntu as the way forward
<czajkowski> don't ye start
<czajkowski> I got him back on his fb ac
<czajkowski> little cheeky fecker
<jpds> czajkowski: You should enable the Facebook HTTPS option.
<czajkowski> jpds: or just sign out of my ac on his machine
<czajkowski> I've my own login
<czajkowski> as he doesnt trust me :(
<czajkowski> to be fait I've gotten near his phone and done some tweeting
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> who has root?
<AlanBell> is there sudo on a mac?
<czajkowski> it's his mac
<czajkowski> :)
<cbx333> anyone know about IME in ubuntu?
<gyre007> \join #httpd
<MooDoo> gyre007: oops :)
<gyre007> Woops :)
<gyre007> typo :)
<andylockran> howdy all
<andylockran> any ideas how to change the resolution of the console before you boot into X?
<mungojerry> andylockran, u mean settings the resolution for the framebuffer?
<mungojerry> u can pass a kernel option https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions#Kernel%20Options
<andylockran> ta
<czajkowski> AlanBell: re cds not sure I suspect not tbh
<doubi> Morning all. I've been searching around for details on the Super+<blah> keyboard shortcuts, but they seem to be separate to the normal ones. E.g., Super+S for the shutdown menu isn't listed in System > Preferences > Keyboard Shortcuts. Why is that?
<Neoti|work> morning all
<AlanBell> doubi: they might be compiz keybindings
<doubi> AlanBell: I saw compiz bandied about in the search results, but assumed I'm not using it if I'm using out-of-the-box Gnome that comes with 10.4?
<doubi> Is compiz an alternative to Gnome or a layer on top?
<bigcalm> It's extra wizzy-bang stuff
<bigcalm> "wobbly windows" and the like
<doubi> Ah, I see. Will Google further in that direction.
<doubi> It would be nice if Prefs > Keyboard Shortcuts could centralise all extant shortcuts. Bit unintuitive to have two separate sets.
 * mungojerry is having to fix a laptop running vista this morning due to team member on holiday. what have i done to deserve this?
<gord> doubi, the problem is that prefs -> keyboard shortcuts is gnome specific and compiz is multi-desktop compatible. i agree, its just not as simple as you might like to do
<bigcalm> ~ Since you went away I've been hanging around ~
 * bigcalm slaps some Pet Shop Boys into Spotify
<danfish> Admitting defeat. Going home to curl up and die.
<screen-x> danfish: s/die/sleep/
<bigcalm> Prechance to dream
<bigcalm> danfish: regerate soon
<danfish> screen-x: I'll let you know which tomorrow ;)
<danfish> bigcalm: tx
<DJones> danfish: make sure your wife treats you well, she should be waiting on you hand & foot after giving you the flu
<DJones> too slow
<doubi> Thanks for the help all. Time for venturing out~
<MooDoo> DJones: if she's like my wife, he'll get naff all sympathy
<PeteB> Hi. How do I install the VirtualBox extension pack for USB support in Ubuntu 10.10? The GUI has no 'Extensions' section and vboxmanage doesn't understand the 'extpack' option.
<exobuzz> add the virtualbox ppa  (listed on virtualbox site), get the latest version from there  and follow instructions from there to install usb
<bigcalm> PeteB: there should be a seperate package that will install the extensions
<PeteB> bigcalm: you need to use the methods I justdescribed to be able to install it though
<exobuzz> in /etc/apt/sources.list.d add a file with deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian maverick contrib
<bigcalm> PeteB: ignore me and follow exobuzz's suggestion then ;)
<exobuzz> its all on here http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads
<PeteB> exobuzz, are you saying that Canonical pull support for extensions from their version?
<bigcalm> The package maintainer might be a little lax
<exobuzz> PeteB,  i cant remember what version is in maverick and it might be different
<exobuzz> it might be ose edition,
<exobuzz> the usb stuff was changed in virtualbox 4
<DJones> MooDoo: My wife is the opposite, if I sneeze, she keeps asking "Am I sure I should be going into work"
<bigcalm> DJones: it's a bugger to keep my GF home if she's ill
<exobuzz> on older virtualbox there were two editions, one with usb and one without..
<bigcalm> Council PAs are all over worked
<PeteB> Yeah it is the OSE edition, which is why we have to get the extension sperately. Anyway thanks for the info I'll look into it from that link.
<exobuzz> now its a single one with usb extensions.. so your version probably is an older one that doesnt have usb support
<exobuzz> (and doesnt understand the extension)
<exobuzz> </spam>
<exobuzz> the ose edition didnt have separate extensions afair
<exobuzz> you are probably on virtualbox 3
<PeteB> Oh yeah, it'sversion 3. I'd thought 10.10 came with 4.0, I must have misread packages.ubuntu.com. ThanksI've just installed it, it's 4.0.2 in Ubuntu 10.10
 * exobuzz watches demos on his amiga 500
 * MooDoo runs around to exobuzz and reminises
<exobuzz> PeteB, i always install from vbox repositories anyway. to get the newest stuff
<exobuzz> MooDoo, brings a tear to my eye it does.. *sniff*
<MooDoo> exobuzz: i bet, and i gave my a1200 away a few months ago
<exobuzz> NOoOooooooO
<MooDoo> exobuzz: yeah fraid so....
<exobuzz> well.. you can load up uae or something
<MooDoo> exobuzz: yeah i do :)
<MooDoo> can't beat a bit of chaos engine in the morning :)
<exobuzz> last time i tried i found winuae on wine was better than any native linux versions
<exobuzz> hehe
<exobuzz> i like chaos engine.
<exobuzz> 2nd one was sh*t though
<MooDoo> yeah, alien breed was another :)
<screen-x> while were on virtualbox... try KVM, it really is getting rather good :)
<exobuzz> MooDoo, nice music on that
<exobuzz> actually i might have to put it on - http://modstream.exotica.org.uk/modstream/?md5=fc3f35f48bf6089ad142f7c9f7708b1c
<MooDoo> exobuzz: yup, i kinda miss my a1200 now lol, would of loved a accelerator card in it :)
<MooDoo> exobuzz: awesome :)
<DeathSling> Hi all, anyone familiar with drbd?    I'm wondering if I should be mounting the partition in /etc/fstab prior to drbd attaching itself to it
<exobuzz> i bought a keyboard off allister brimble recently (who made the music for alien breed)
<exobuzz> </name dropping>
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> exobuzz: ooo this sounds familiar
<exobuzz> this is an extended long version .. i cant remember if this was in the game or released separately on a diskmag or something. there is another long remix too he did at the time. almost 17 mins long this.
<exobuzz> http://www.exotica.org.uk/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AModland&ss=1&title=Special%3AModland&md=qsearch&qs=alien+breed+soundmon
<MooDoo> oooo alien breed on the xbox :)
 * czajkowski hugs Daviey 
<Daviey> czajkowski, o/
<Pendulum> morning
<PeteB> Upgraded to Virtualbox 4 and everything's fine. Thanks again for the help.
<exobuzz> MooDoo, emulator on the xbox ?
 * exobuzz also uses winuaex occasionally
<MooDoo> exobuzz: no a new version of alienbreed by team 17
<exobuzz> aah.. the xbox 360 thing ?
<MooDoo> yeah alienbreed evolution
<exobuzz> quite pretty that.. it looks a little better than it plays perhaps but nice all the same
<exobuzz> there is some brimble music on that too. on the credits screen. remix of the amiga tune
<exobuzz> btw i downloaded some terrahawks to watch - you talked about it the other week and reminded me of that show. credits sequence all came back to me when i watched it
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: http://news.enterprise-ireland.com/read/messages?id=19992#19992
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> morning all!
 * czajkowski pokes davmor2 
 * davmor2 checks for bruising
<davmor2> morning czajkowski
<davmor2> morning popey
<exobuzz> mornin
<czajkowski> if anyone has any comments or know of info out there looking for some replies http://news.enterprise-ireland.com/read/messages?id=19992#19992
<bigcalm> popey: did you give your wife the book today?
<popey> heheh bigcalm gave it to her days ago :)
<bigcalm> Aha, you're not completely bonkers then :P
<mungojerry> czajkowski, i have a comment on that story which can help compatibiltiy but i don't wanna crete a login to the forum
 * MooDoo wonders where his hug from czajkowski is or is davmor2 just special :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: I got poked not hugged honest
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski.......................................well it's valentines day if you can't be nice today we are in a sorry state :D
<MooDoo> pah! to v day
<bigcalm> My GF left me a card nearly as big as my keyboard on my desk this morning
<bigcalm> I forgot to get her a card
 * bigcalm feels silly
<MooDoo> i got nowt
 * DJones senses grovelling will happen later in the mr & mrs bigcalm household
 * czajkowski just got flowers and chocolate to work
<czajkowski> I am RED
<bigcalm> I am taking her out for a meal tonight, hope that makes up for it
<MooDoo> my misses hates it and so do i :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: Retired Extreamly Dangerous?
<DJones> MooDoo: I hate it, but I hate earache even more
<bigcalm> At least we agreed not to get gifts for each other
<Oli``> bigcalm: Mine has been telling me not to get her a card all week, citing that Valentine's Day is just an event to sell cards, it's silly and we should just show our affection every day instead of setting some unruly precedent on one day of the year....
<Oli``> ... And then leaves me a card on my desk this morning. *sigh*
<bigcalm> Oli``: women, eh?
 * bigcalm grins at czajkowski
<DJones> Oli``: Its just an excuse to make you feel guilty
<MooDoo> bigcalm: my wife said she would break my fingers if i got her a card.....i'm happy with that :)
<Oli``> DJones: more than likely =)
<bigcalm> Haha
 * bigcalm ponders proposing over dinner tonight
<MooDoo> bigcalm: really?#
<bigcalm> MooDoo: not to you :P
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i know that lol.......although how rude, am i not worth it ;)
<bigcalm> I've never understood how one gets an engagement ring without them knowing to propose with
<bigcalm> For that matter, I would need to find out what her ring size is
<bigcalm> Married peeps: how did you do it?
<mungojerry> i proposed with a jelly ring made of haribo
<exobuzz> haribo rings ftw
<dwatkins> rings can be adjusted, also: women tend to have other rings which can be measured in secret
<bigcalm> Class!
<mungojerry> and a massive gran prix rose
<Oli``> bigcalm: steal some other jewellery?
<MooDoo> which is what i did dwatkins :)
<DJones> bigcalm: We just decided & went to the jewellers together so she could pick what she wanted
<dwatkins> MooDoo: :D
<bigcalm> Oli``: this is the advantage of working from home
<mungojerry> djones yeah - she hass to wear it for life so i wanted her/us to pick
<bigcalm> "has to"?
<bigcalm> If I wait until next year, she might propose to me
<Oli``> bigcalm: or take a plaster cast of her hand while she's asleep (you'll need to put a glove on her first because plaster is an irritant, if you're doing a full cast)
<bigcalm> Oli``: bit late for that
<mungojerry> actually going ring shopping together post-engagement is fun
<mungojerry> we decided on 2 rings, and she chose the *smaller* diamond :)
<bigcalm> From wikipedia: "Conventionally, the woman's ring is presented as a betrothal gift by a man to his prospective spouse while he proposes marriage or directly after she accepts his marriage proposal. It represents a formal agreement to future marriage. Rings can be bought by the man, the couple together, or by each partner for the other."
<bigcalm> I like that thought
<Oli``> bigcalm: take a recent photo and CSI-style build a 3D model based around known dimensions in the picture
<bigcalm> Oli``: or take one of her existing rings to a jewllers to size
<Oli``> bigcalm: where's the fun in that?
<Oli``> Apply some science to the problem.
<bigcalm> ;)
<mungojerry> http://www.everythingusb.com/swarovski-usb-engagement-rings-14440.html
<bigcalm> LOL
<bigcalm> If she were a geek like me, that would be amusing
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: the trick is to _make_ her one :)
<Oli``> You can't force it on her... You need to make her think that becoming a geek was her idea. Inception style
<mungojerry> Mrs Mungojerry was the one who asked me to install ubuntu on her laptop
<mungojerry> no cajoling..it sells itself
<Oli``> mungojerry: impressive
<bigcalm> I loved that film and had no problem following it in the cinema. GF was confused :S
<Oli``> Not the most bulletproof of plots though
<bigcalm> Sure
<bigcalm> Really enjoyable though
<Ng> they were robbed at the baftas!
<bigcalm> I got the blu-ray for xmas. Looking forward to watching it again
<Oli``> I'm giving it a good 6 months to let the "why aren't they waking up"-fury from watching in the cinema to pass
<Oli``> Anybody here have a Samsung Q330?
<bigcalm> Oli``: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBAuMpOpSnA
<czajkowski> MooDoo: davmor2 http://pix.ie/czajkowski/2165190
<MooDoo> czajkowski: awww lovely
<davmor2> czajkowski: Don't worry inconveniences like that go away when you get married ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: +1  :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<czajkowski> davmor2: booo
<Baikonur> i can't find that link either on irc or twitter
<Baikonur> oops, wrong channel
<Myrtti> meh, getting depressed at the lecture... boo
<czajkowski> Myrtti: *hugs*
<Myrtti> atleast coffee and pastry was nice
<Myrtti> what a sucky way to spend valentines
<czajkowski> :(
<gord> hope mega-drives don't take up much power, may have played some of disney's aladdin during my lunch break and just paused so i can finish this evening
<andylockran> that subway was lovely :)
<andylockran> hey guys, I've got three DNS servers setup for a domain
<andylockran> one is master, two are slaves off it.
<jpds> Sounds standard.
<andylockran> if the master goes down, I'd expect the slaves to continue to serve the DNS, but when the master goes down both slaves stop serving for the domain too
<mungojerry> sounds like the slaves are misconfigured just to forward requests  to the master
<mungojerry> either that or they don't have a copy of the zone files? can you specify a slave server in nslookup/dig  and query hosts?
<andylockran> http://dpaste.com/415638/
<andylockran> they have the zone files, and they look right - even when the master is taken down
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nokia shares are down 20 percent  since the middle of last week when news of the deal leaked, hitting a  six-month low: http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Nokia-Microsoft-tie-gets-reuters_molt-410195743.html?x=0&.v=1
<Myrtti> meh
<mungojerry> andylockran, dunno - worth turning logging up high - also check that transfers are allowed in master config, and DNS ports tcp and udp are allowed in iptables
<andylockran> ah
<andylockran> I think it's the expiry parameter
<andylockran> need to set that high, then if the master is down the slaves can continue being authoritative for longer than the TTL
<andylockran> that makes sense right?
<mungojerry> what's your current ttl
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - a 3D Android smartphone from LG... http://mashable.com/2011/02/14/lg-optimus-3d-hands-on/
<TheOpenSourcerer> shiny.
<BigRedS> my samsung's 3d...
<rtyuio> hello
<rtyuio> there
<rtyuio> this is the error what i got :  http://paste.ubuntu.com/566966/
<czajkowski> why is there no alanbell
<rtyuio> what i have to do ?
<BigRedS> rtyuio: is this on real-life hardware, or a virtual machine?
<BigRedS> if it's real hardware (a mac?), running  sudo grub-mkdevicemap    *might* fix that
<BigRedS> Happens especially after a kernel upgrade where /dev/hd** become /dev/sd**. Grub checks its map (/boot/grub/device.map) and doesn't find an sda, since the last time it was run sda was hda
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: AlanBell has fallen off the Internet.
<czajkowski> :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> His ISP is not working.
<BigRedS> Damn ip4 exhaustion
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ahh ok
<screen-x> BigRedS: I've decided its not ipv4 exhaustion thats the problem, its lack of ipv6 uptake..
<DJones> chickens pecked through the phone line :)
<BigRedS> screen-x: well, yeah. I suppose it's that the wrong one came first
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: No. His broadband circuit is up, training and authenticating OK. No traffic will pass though. Upstream from the DSLAM/RADIUS servers me thinks.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, sounds like IPv4 exhaustion. THE WEBPOCALYPSE HAS COME! REPENT ALL YOUR SUBNETS!
<rtyuio> virtual  machine BigRedS
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just ordered a new bigboy server from our hosting provider that comes with IPv6 addresses :-) 24G RAM, Hex Core i7-980x, 2x 1.5TB...
 * popey waves his /8 IP around
<BigRedS> rtyuio: it'd still be worth trying that and then a grub-update. If not, check with whoever provides the vm that they're not doing something that doesn't require grub - I know slicehost don't
 * TheOpenSourcerer is liking the look of the Samsung Galaxy S II when his free upgrade comes in June.
<screen-x> popey: v4 or v6 :p
<popey> v4
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://news.techworld.com/mobile-wireless/3260855/samsung-launches-galaxy-s-ii/
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: what no more brick ?
<popey> slab
<bigcalm> popey: 192.168. ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'll probably keep it too.
<jpds> popey: Go go 10./8.
<screen-x> bigcalm: that would be /16
<BigRedS> there's never anything interesting at 127/8
<TheOpenSourcerer> I do like the Streak - a lot.
<bigcalm> screen-x: I don't know about the /# thing
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: odd odd
<TheOpenSourcerer> But we get a free h/w upgrade every 12months so it's a shame to not use it.
<czajkowski> aye
<popey> jpds: 13.
<screen-x> !info ipcalc |bigcalm
<lubotu3> None: ipcalc (source: ipcalc): parameter calculator for IPv4 addresses. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.41-2 (maverick), package size 25 kB, installed size 128 kB
<popey> heheh, the samsung S II _still_ has a lower screen res than an iPhone :D
<screen-x> bigcalm: that explains it really well
<rtyuio> what i have to do technically ? BigRedS
<BigRedS> I'm still amused by the difference between the high-res iphone4 and really low-res ipad
<BigRedS> rtyuio: sudo grub-mkdevicemap
<BigRedS> rtyuio: sudo update-grub
<TheOpenSourcerer> But it isn't a fruit popey (Unless there is some bizarre fruit called a Samsung).
 * TheOpenSourcerer Thinks about a phone called a Durian
<popey> Durian Durian!
<popey> The Reflex!
<popey> flex flex flex flex flex!
<popey> etc
<czajkowski> relax don't do it
<davmor2> popey: is that like Duran Duran?
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: gets the boiley award for today.
<rtyuio> this is what i got : /proc/devices: No entry for device-mapper found
<rtyuio> /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot find a GRUB drive for /dev/sda1.  Check your device.map.
<popey> i refuse to explain my joke lest it no longer be "funny"
<TheOpenSourcerer> "funny" is definitely in the eye of the beholder in this instance.
<popey> ah well
<BigRedS> rtyuio: which version of ubuntu are you running? Is this bug 526045 ?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 526045 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "no entry for device-mapper found" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526045
<danfish> hah, just been offered a job on the Falkland Islands
 * BigRedS wants to go to the falkland islands
<danfish> internet a tad pricy http://www.cwfi.co.fk/
<DJones> danfish: One way trip?
 * BigRedS changes his mind a bit
<danfish> DJones: it will be if I don't cook a romantic meal 2nite :D
<DJones> danfish: Shouldn't you be tucked up in bed being waited on hand & foot, after all, it wasn't your fault somebody gave you the flu
<danfish> DJones: that's a point. There is one fatal flaw - my wife cannot cook at all, zip, nada, nothing
<DJones> Takeaway?
<kazade> danfish, she can learn ;)
<danfish> DJones: bingo
<danfish> kazade: it has been attempted but always end in a burnt mess or food poisoning
<danfish> sometimes even both
<kazade> lol
 * TheOpenSourcerer is reminded of the the theme tune to "Butterflies"... 
 * TheOpenSourcerer is sometimes heard summing this to his wife after a kitchen calamity.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/summing/humming
<czajkowski> http://i.imgur.com/dMX1f.png  <-- grin :)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: what have you done now...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Me? Nothing much. I was reading danfish 's tales of mrs danfish 's cooking skills.
<screen-x> Mrs danfish& I must be at about the same level...
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterflies_%28TV_series%29
<bigcalm> I love it when iTunes freezes after finishing a video podcast
<screen-x> bigcalm: whatever floats your boat...
<bigcalm> I lie
<bigcalm> popey: do you know how much mates rates is going up to with the VM price increase?
<mungojerry> danfish , did you know this before you got married?
<popey> bigcalm: no idea
<bigcalm> If we lose mates rates, I think Heyley wants us to move to Sky
<bigcalm> :S
<popey> ewww
<danfish> mungojerry: ay
<directhex> i want Sky 3D, but cannot justify the massive cost of the 1TB box, nor paying hundreds per year on sports channels i will never watch
<mungojerry> my PVR wiped itself the other day :(
<mungojerry> lost 250gb of recordings
<DJones> mungojerry: Ouch
<mungojerry> lost all the battle of britain 70th anniversary programmes too :( have to wait another 5 years for that
<kazade> my gf just started working at Sky, we get free Sky+ HD :D
<kazade> ... and phone and broadband
<mungojerry> i find it funny how everyone is supposed to hate murdoch but love steve jobs
<popey> "everyone" ?
<popey> you can choose an apple product, for sports fans there is little choice
<mungojerry> yeah thats what we're told ... you must all hate murdoch and love jobs
<mungojerry> popey i choose to go to the games instead :P
<mungojerry> also i think norwegian satellite is now legal..as per judge ruling last month
<mungojerry> jobs and murdoch are both tyrants thoguh
<mungojerry> murdoch should start a cult
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, as much as I dislike Apple's strategy and (IMHO) abuse of Free Software, I don't recall being told to hate or love SJ. And I would presonally think a dinner or few beers with either of them would be fun and enlightening.
<mungojerry> except they would buy you cider and tell you you're holding it wrong if you say yo wanted beer
<mungojerry> :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/14/watch-steve-jobs-gets-kicked-in-the-face-by-the-lg-optimus-pad/
<mungojerry> inicdentally on another topic i just compiled the board on natty, have been playing with it: https://live.gnome.org/TheBoardProject
<mungojerry> that's shome shexy shoftware
<mungojerry> uupc should interview this guy :P
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, i want to see WebOS succeed. I'm still not happy with android on a technical or user level
<andylockran> hey guys - anyone setup multi-master IMAP and has any tips/
<screen-x> haha, user just asked me to look through the backups for an email he'd deleted, searched for a while till he remembered it was a letter he'd been sent..
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: Well, you know what to do... Buy WebOS phones and show them off to people.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, i plan to get a pre3
<AlanBell> yay
<czajkowski> AlanBell: welcome back
<AlanBell> did you miss me?
<DJones> Miss who?
<andylockran> screen-x: that made me laugh
<AlanBell> reconfigured my network, all going out through a mobile broadband dongle now
 * AlanBell grumbles at ADSL fail
<popey>   ____          _   _       _
<popey>  / ___|___  ___| |_| |_   _| |
<popey> | |   / _ \/ __| __| | | | | |
<popey> | |__| (_) \__ \ |_| | |_| |_|
<popey>  \____\___/|___/\__|_|\__, (_)
<popey>                       |___/
<bigcalm> Ug
 * popey consumes more bandwidth than is strictly necessary to say that word, knowing AlanBell is on 3g :)
<popey> <- spoiler
<AlanBell> popey Daviey http://ubuntu-uk.org/ Error establishing a database connection
<popey> ooo, what happened there
<AlanBell> good job it is TheOpenSourcerer's 3G
<popey> box looks hosed
<popey> i reckon it's apache OOMing again
<Pendulum> AlanBell: yay, you're back!
<AlanBell> wasn't me
<popey> or rather the kernel OOMing and killing mysql
<DJones> For anybody not on the mailing list for ubuntu-uk (Why not) This is worth reading https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-February/028779.html
<popey> (because php / apache and/or wordpress is eating too much ram)
<AlanBell> Pendulum I knew someone would miss me :)
<popey> [525507.235254] Out of memory: kill process 7767 (apache2) score 15715 or a child
<popey> [525507.235272] Killed process 7767 (apache2)
<popey> yup!
<popey> Daviey / X3N mind if I switch from apache to lighty on ubuntu uk box?
<TheOpenSourcerer> moar RAM popey
<popey> I believe it's a memory leak in php 5.3 or apache
<popey> not been able to nail it down
<X3N> popey: could be mysql
<popey> it isnt
<X3N> imo though for future flexibility sticking with apache might be better
 * BigRedS blames PHP
<BigRedS> but I always do
<popey> i had the exact same issue on my vps
<popey> fought it for months
<popey> switched from apache to lighty, issue gone
<popey> its some combination of apache / php / wordpress 3.x
<andylockran> hey ho guys.
<andylockran> and gals
<X3N> are we using the distro wordpress?
<andylockran> wondering what the best setup is for multi-server imap store.
<popey> upstream
<andylockran> :p
<BigRedS> popey: you don't have any more details do you? Assuming some of our wordpress users upgrade we'll have hundreds of that sort of setup soon
<popey> I dont
<popey> I did some testing and was able to reliably cause apache to eat _all_ ram using specific wordpres URLs
<BigRedS> eeek. Time for some VMs methinks.
<X3N> there are no packages installed for wordpress
<popey> X3N: observe my answer to your question above
<popey> 15:55:20 < X3N> are we using the distro wordpress?
<popey> 15:55:25 < popey> upstream
<X3N> ah, then we should use the distro version
<popey> no
<X3N> why not?
<BigRedS> 'cause it'll be ancient
<popey> old mc old
<BigRedS> wordpress *really* wants to be kept up to date, much more so than you can do with distro packages
<X3N> but stable and supported with security updates
<popey> we update it regularly
<popey> as and when security updates occur
<X3N> better to get them through the distro imo
<popey> well, we disagree on that
<popey> and this has been in place for over 3 years
<BigRedS> Themes etc. prefer wordpress-from-wordpress
<popey> the time to suggest that we used a different version of wordpress was probably around 1000 days ago.
<BigRedS> haha
<X3N> well if the only thing we can change is the server, if a bit drastic, so it's really a non-choice
<popey> well, having mentioned previously that I have seen this issue on another 10.04 VPS with the same software stack..
<popey> and replacing the webserver made the issue go away
<popey> the problem is diagnosing memory issues on a php app is _hard_
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jamie Bennett] Tracking open source projects in Linaro - http://www.linuxuk.org/2011/02/tracking-open-source-projects-in-linaro/
<X3N> The app shouldn't be able to run the system out of ram anyway
<X3N> php is supposed to handle memory managment in a sane way
<popey> correct
<popey> welcome to my world about a year ago.
<BigRedS> It's mostly immaterial. If you ulimit it or whatever it still hits the limit and the php stops
<X3N> changing the websever shouldn't fix this really
<popey> and reverting to wordpress 2.old will?
<X3N> maybe, there might be some kind of obscure bug that is only triggered in new versions
<directhex> old wordpress == almost hacked wordpress
<popey> well I agree on that point, the issue only arose when I upgraded to wordpress 3.x
<popey> however it is entirely possible that the issue is triggerd _in_ php or apache as a result of a code change in wp 3.x
<popey> so the upshot is, either someone invests a significant amount of time debugging the issue.. or something else yet to be suggested
<popey> or we switch to lighty which has been proven not to have this issue
<popey> (but may have other issues as yet not identified)
<X3N> just looking at the config i have on my vps
 * AlanBell has servers running current wordpress on apache with no apparent issues
<Azelphur> is google still doing the thing where they pay you to switch people to firefox?
<mgdm> Anyone who's having WP issues - I'd be interested in trying to work out what's going on there
<Myrtti> I find it annoying that I can't tell if the wp vulnerability checkup plugin is safe to use on a shell provider hosted wp
<mgdm> I've never seen anyone complain about similar who wasn't runnning Ubuntu packages, so i wonder if it's one of the distro specific patches that does it
<Myrtti> I don't want it to trawl through all the files on the webhost
<X3N> popey: can we put php into debug mode and log it and then have a look?
<mgdm> actually
<mgdm> can someone who has php5-dev installed, pastebin the output of 'php-config' from the shell?
<popey> X3N: I don't know, can we?
<X3N> well it's up to you as you're the user of wordpress
<popey> I am?
<popey> the whole site is wordpress
<X3N> oh right, we've moved over
<bigcalm> mgdm: php-config
<mgdm> bigcalm: eh?
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> mgdm: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/567042/
<bigcalm> Paste fail :(
<mgdm> hehe
 * DJones realises that with 30 minutes of the working day left, he hasn't opened his email client...Oops
<bigcalm> Nice
<bigcalm> I used to fail like that (for maybe half a day). But now I have gmail widgets on my desk top and can't escape newemail
<DJones> bigcalm: There was  agrand total of 2 new emails, one of which was a marketing/spam email & the other was just a forwarded mail from one of my assistants to keep me informed :)
<BigRedS> I do wish dpkg would say *which* script failed...
<jacobw> Evening
<andylockran> howdy
<hazrpg> afternoon
<hazrpg> evening rather
<dutchie> loadavg plz2be going down kthxbai
<lazarus_> skype is now in the partner repo but how would I enable it from terminal
<AlanBell> edit /etc/apt/sources.list
<AlanBell> and uncomment the lines relating to the partner repo, then sudo apt-get update, sudo apt-get install skype
 * AlanBell should turn on parts as well as joins
<hazrpg> Hmm, I just removed OpenJDK, icedtea, web start, and replaced with sun-java6-jre, jdk, plugin... but yeah "java -version" still reports its using OpenJDK?
<directhex> dpkg-reconfigure --config java
<hazrpg> are you sure that's not: update-alternative --config java ?
<hazrpg> because the one you gave me said config was incorrect?
<hazrpg> (just found above command in google, but was just about to ask just in case)
<hazrpg> Ah that sorted it :)
<hazrpg> woot :)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<Pendulum> hiya czajkowski
 * hazrpg 's prolificness with terminal has increased by 1!
<hazrpg> Right, can someone please help me with my keyboard issue - can't seem to find an answer to it anywhere :(, yet I've been using the keyboard for years and ubuntu 10.10 just seems to hate me pressing the main enter key. The main enter key just won't response at all :(
<hazrpg> nor any of my media keys
<hazrpg> respond*
<hazrpg> lsusb shows me my keyboard: Bus 008 Device 004: ID 1038:0100 Ideazon, Inc. Zboard
<hazrpg> but if I'm not mistaken, Bus 008 Device 003: ID 03eb:3301 Atmel Corp. at43301 4-Port Hub, is also part of my keyboard (it has 2 USB ports on the front of it)
<hazrpg> xev response to most keys, the only one's that don't seem to do anything is: Main big enter key, vol-up, vol-down, vol-mute, previous, stop, play/pause, calc, etc
<hazrpg> its really frustrating
<hazrpg> mainly just the enter key
<penguin42> oh never heard of an enter key that doesn't work
<moreati> hazrpg: Have you positively confirmed that the enter key still works outside Ubuntu? i.e. are you certain that the physical key still works?
<hazrpg> penguin42: I think the issue with this keyboard is it can have the keyset taken off and changed at will
<hazrpg> moreati: works fine in Window 7
<penguin42> hazrpg: wireshark can sniff usb - see what happens
<moreati> hazrpg: what do you mean that the keyset can be changed?
<hazrpg> moreati: its a Zboard, by the now owned SteelSeries company
<hazrpg> however I've never had an issue in ubuntu until yesterday when I put ubuntu 10.10
<hazrpg> problem is also in ubuntu 10.04 too
<hazrpg> moreati: the keyset is interchangeable - since its a gaming keyboard
<hazrpg> penguin42: just installing now to see what happens, been a while since I used wireshark for anything
<moreati> hazrpg: you mean the physical keys can be moved around the keyboard, or the mapping from keys to keycodes?
<DJones> hazrpg: programmable keyboard?
<penguin42> hazrpg: The 'evtest' pacakge also looks promising
<hazrpg> DJones: not quite, its predefined - each keyset has a chip that just tells the main keyboard controller what the button placement is, which then gets sent out to the O/S
<hazrpg> moreati: no, the whole keyset just unclips off
<hazrpg> penguin42: hmm, wireshark doesn't seem to see any interfaces to capture
<penguin42> hazrpg: do it as root
<moreati> hazrpg: sounds like it does something non-standard as a USB device, and hence needs a custom driver or driver configuration. File a bug, but I wouldn't hold too much hope
<DJones> hazrpg: Azelphur Might be able to help, I seem to remember him having a programmable keyboard, maybe he's come across something that might help
<shauno> only thing I could offer is to try booting with atkbd.softraw=0.  that should at least get the unknown scancodes shown up on xev,
<hazrpg> shauno: how would i do that?
<shauno> I'd hit e to edit the command line in grub .. you can set it on the GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT line in /etc/default/grub, but that'll make it a bit more permenant, which I don't like to do until I know it works
<shauno> actually, I'd be tempted to try thru the steps in https://wiki.kubuntu.org/LaptopTesting/Keycodes   first
<shauno> (yes I know it's not a laptop keyboard, but it is a weird usb keyboard, which tends to be the problem with laptop keyboards)
<hazrpg> penguin42: hmm, i don't know what i'm looking for in wireshark for usb devices dude
<DJones> Isn't wireshark for network interfaces
<hazrpg> DJones: you can capture stuff in usb interfaces too
<hazrpg> some guy has managed to make a plugin for wireshark to capture bluetooth too now :)
<hazrpg> same guy even made his own usb bluetooth dongle which allows it to go into "monitor mode" so that he can just grab random packets that are flying around in the area
<DJones> Interesting, I'd only heard of it in regard to network interfaces
<hazrpg> yeah, because most only want it for sniffing packets ^^
<hazrpg> DJones: You might be interested in this, http://www.hak5.org/episodes/episode-824 <== its the custom "hack" hardware for sniffing bluetooth devices
<hazrpg> it can be made at home too, since he's open-sourced how the hardware is put together
<DJones> hazrpg: That might be interesting if I had a machine with bluetooth :)
<hazrpg> or rather the chips, circuits, etc
<hazrpg> still worth a watch ;)
<hazrpg> guy explains everything about it, and how bluetooth hasn't been checked for vulnerabilities for years since no one has ever made a piece of hardware to go into monitor mode - much like wifi has (except putting something in monitor mode on wifi has been around on most hardware)
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: lots of cool bluetooth sniffing hardware out there :)
 * MartijnVdS works with several h4x0rs like that :)
<Azelphur> woa that was weird, my LAN just randomly went down
<Azelphur> and then randomly came back up again
<Azelphur> my router has 10 days uptime what is this madness
<Azelphur> anyway hazrpg ewww, zboard
<hazrpg> penguin42: dude, here's my captures from wireshark: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/wireshark/enter-key http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/wireshark/num-enter-key http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/wireshark/s-key
<hazrpg> Azelphur: what? whats up with that?
<AlanBell> woot broadband is back on \o/
 * AlanBell reconfigures
<Azelphur> hazrpg: nowhere near as good as the logitech hardware for the same price
<hazrpg> AlanBell: \o/ hurray!
<hazrpg> Azelphur: why do you assume I paid full price for it?
<Azelphur> fair enough :p
<hazrpg> :P
<Azelphur> but yea, no idea on getting that running sorry :(
<hazrpg> its weird though, because I've been using this for years... and I don't understand why it doesn't like it now
<hazrpg> think it could be the BIOS that's causing it?
<hazrpg> since the enter key doesn't work in CMOS either, and it use to on my old machine
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<shauno> hazrpg: what does showkey -k  return for each of those 3 keys  (return, enter & 's')
<penguin42> hazrpg: Sorry, I don't know enough about USB to decode it
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> ping-pong, a fun game for all the family
<MartijnVdS> !pong
<AlanBell> yay
<lubotu3> pong is an old atari game. It's fun!
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you have int0rwebs!
<shauno> hazrpg: and showkey -s if you could too, altho that's likely to be an ugly lump you'll want to paste somewhere
<hazrpg> shauno: s = 31 (pressed/released), num-enter-key = 96, main enter = nothing
<hazrpg> shauno: http://paste.ubuntu.com/567110/
<hazrpg> the enter key just isn't reporting anything at all
<hazrpg> hmm, have I missed any other suggestions...
<hazrpg> *scrolls up for a bit*
<MartijnVdS> Great
<MartijnVdS> I reported 2 bugs
<MartijnVdS> and now the apport retracing service has marked them as duplicates
<MartijnVdS> of "secret" bugs that I can't access
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<shauno> I do think that softraw option is going to help to show scancodes that aren't recognised, but I don't know where you edit the kernel's boot parameters anymore
<shauno> (since 2.6.x lies about scancodes it doesn't recognise)
<penguin42> hazrpg: Ther eis an event layer debug option in the kernel you could try
<hazrpg> cool, how would I do that?
<penguin42> hazrpg: I think it's CONFIG_HID_DEBUG in the kernel if you're building one
<penguin42> hazrpg: Did you try the evtest package
<penguin42> DJones: It seems to have gained USB capture
<czajkowski> Pendulum: PING!!!!!!!!!!!
<czajkowski> Bigcalm popped the questions, his gf said yes!
<czajkowski> re this mornings conversation in here
<DJones> \o/
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> wonder did he use the haribo
<DJones> Heh
<Pendulum> didn't he say he went out and bought it?
<czajkowski> no I remember he was going for a walk...
<Pendulum> oh, I thought I saw him mention having bought haribou somehwere
<czajkowski> ohh
<DJones> Interesting new add on for google chrome http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/new-chrome-extension-block-sites-from.html
<BigRedS> oooh
<DJones> searching for "windows xp" gives me the option to "block microsoft.com" :)
<ali1234> cool, i've wanted that for ages
<ali1234> i hope someone makes a firefox version though because i hate chrome
<ali1234> or even better just allow any logged in user to do this
<ali1234> first i would block all those stupid datasheet sites where it is just a list of filenames and no download links
<hazrpg> right, sod this for a game of soldiers, I have a feeling its the BIOS - so I'm going to update to the latest firmware - if I don't reappear in about half hr... I've probably broken my system lol.
<hazrpg> ooo apparently 0802 fixes the "Logitech G1 Keyboard may not be detected" issue... so hopefully that might fix mine too
<ali1234> what keyboard do you have?
<hazrpg> its a zboard
<hazrpg> (but not the zboard merc, its the regular - original zboard)
<ali1234> bios update will only add keyboard detection in the bios
<ali1234> legacy mode
<hazrpg> yeah but the enter key is non-responsive in applications booted up after bios (i haven't a clue what you'd call these, but e.g. ubuntu alt-install, memtest, etc)
<hazrpg> even in the CMOS it doesn't pick it up it would seem
<hazrpg> but i never had problems with my keyboard in the past, and i'm wondering if the new hardware is the cause
<ali1234> could be
<ali1234> memtest for sure uses legacy mode
<hazrpg> won't hurt to do a bios update anyways, will it?
<hazrpg> the one I have is 0505 and the current one is 0802
<hazrpg> thats alot of updates
<hazrpg> It has an application in the BIOS to flash it by holding ALT+F2 at the start, which is meant to stop it from being bricked if problems happen if I recall
<hazrpg> brb
<KrimZon> ali1234: firefox has an extension called OptimizeGoogle which can do that
<KrimZon> among other thigns
<ali1234> cool
<ali1234> i will check it out, thanks
<hazrpg> well it now makes a "clicky" noise from the motherboard speaker when I hit the hit in legacy applications
<hazrpg> however ubuntu still isn't happy with using my enter key :(
<hazrpg> *sigh*
<moreati> hazrpg: file a bug if you haven't already, even if just for completeness
<hazrpg> I will after I do one more check, going to test out a liveCD of some older ubuntu's since I'm sure it use to work under one of them - if it doesn't then I don't know whats up lol
<hazrpg> then file a bug regardless :P
<moreati> hazrpg: good plan, also worth testing 10.10 live cd and latest natty ISO if you have the motivation/time
<hazrpg> I'm currently in 10.10
<hazrpg> but i'll defo test under natty tho :)
<moreati> hazrpg: it's possible the live cd behaves differently to an installed/update system
<hazrpg> good point...
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-15
<dutchie> night
<BigRedS> g'night!
<Azelphur> Is there a way I can do some kind of text overlay thing? (In python)
<Azelphur> I'm sure I saw a command line tool that could draw text
<moreati> Azelphur: what do you want the text to overlay?
<Azelphur> I mean like just display big information text on the screen
<moreati> Azelphur: probably gnome-osd or python-osd packages
<BigRedS> zenity?
<Azelphur> zenity doesn't seem to do it
<Azelphur> and gnome-osd errors for me
<Azelphur> gonna try python-osd
<moreati> Azelphur: there's also the notification API/it's dbus interface
<Azelphur> pyosd works :D
<hazrpg> hmm, has anyone made their own domain as an OpenID?
<hazrpg> i know you can by adding in rel="openid2.provider", etc in the header... but is there a way to do it using .htaccess or similar?
<Azelphur> moreati: only problem is that it triggers compiz fire :(
<Azelphur> and I can't seem to get a wintitle or class or anything
<moreati> hazrpg: I did it with a wordpress plugin
<moreati> Azelphur: that went straight over my head i'm afraid
<Azelphur> haha
<iclebyte-work> i have an ubuntu system which will not listen to shutdown -r now or init 6 - anything else we can try?
<moreati> iclebyte-work: What happens when you run those commands?
<iclebyte-work> we get the normal message "system is shutting down" etc
<iclebyte-work> then the system doesnt go down
<iclebyte-work> it's just running as normal
<moreati> iclebyte-work: is it remote, or have a remote KVM? can you press the power button?
<iclebyte-work> we'll just drive there
<moreati> right
<shauno> if you're ready to hit the power switch, I'd just use sysrq
<moreati> iclebyte-work: all I can suggest is look in dmesg/syslog/messages for signs of something suppressing the shutdown
<shauno> s is sync, u is unmount (everything), b is reboot.  echo them into /proc/sysrq-trigger  one at a time (a few seconds apart, so it actually has time to sync disks before you kill it) and it should reboot on B.
<shauno> it's brutal, but less so than hitting the power
<shauno> (you'd usually want r, e, i, sub but e & I will kill ssh)
<shauno> (should probably point out he's asking the same question in more than one channel; I'm not just skipping the troubleshooting and going straight for the hammer ;)
<hazrpg> AlanBell: I just thought, the ubuntu-uk.org doesn't have the OpenID plugin installed on WordPress
<hazrpg> might be worth doing
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam: Call For Events! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/15/ubuntu-global-jam-call-for-events/
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/February%202011/2011-02-15-020419_1920x1200_scrot.png
<Azelphur> sound boarding like a pro with wine, python, xlib and pyosd :D
<Azelphur> (the text in the middle is overlayed)
<ali1234> but why?
<Azelphur> ali1234: so I can sound board easier? :D
<ali1234> why don't you reprogram the G19 to play sounds on the g keys?
<ali1234> that would be easier than scrolling through a list
<Azelphur> got more than 12 sounds, still stuck with the macros thing (even jgeboski seems a little stumped) and I wanted to make it work so my friends could use it too :)
<ali1234> or for that matter why even use a sound board? why not just get a mic and scream at people?
<Azelphur> why go to the effort of screaming when you can press a button and have it scream for you :D
<ali1234> because you can be more creative
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<ali1234> GET ON THE BALL
<Azelphur> ARE YOU ON THE BALL?
<hazrpg> I feel very sad for ubuntu right now :(, first time everything seems to be going wrong for me... its weird!
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://splicd.com/2YEfXE2tzyg/46/49 :D
 * hazrpg determined to figure out solutions to all his problems
<hazrpg> is it just me, or is the nvidia driver for linux a bit... odd...
<hazrpg> I mean applications seem to think my resolution is - specially when working with OpenGL
<hazrpg> I mean a few games seem to think my screen is 2560x1024 xD
<ali1234> it is sometimes a bit odd with twinview
<ali1234> there are ways around it
<ali1234> for wine use virtual desktop mode
<ali1234> it works well
<hazrpg> nah, this is for naive ubuntu games
<ali1234> but yeah, it always messes up fullscreen
<ali1234> especially youtube
<hazrpg> I mean for example Tux Type - seems to take up the full screen, which is awesome... if it was for the fact that I have like 2-3 inches in the middle where the two screens meet!
<hazrpg> if it wasn't*
<hazrpg> so tempted to see if I can just rip out those plastic sections of the monitor and see if I can get them as close together as possible!
<ali1234> it's annoying that you have to buy a high end monitor just to get one without a stupid huge bezel
<hazrpg> ...oh wait! I could buy like lots of polymorph type stuff and mold my own screen plastic!
<ali1234> yeah or you could just design it and have it built by one of those online shops
<hazrpg> won't it be cheaper just buying a monitor that already has it set like that though :P?
<ali1234> either way it is probably cheaper to just buy a new monitor
<hazrpg> polymorph is pretty cheap from maplins
<hazrpg> and I'm sure it wouldn't take too much to mold a screen... I mean it just has to hold the screen in place, I couldn't care less if the board at the back wasn't covered or not
<hazrpg> I barely see that anyways
<hazrpg> holy crap!111222341``1A!][#
<hazrpg> grr#
<hazrpg> ignore that
<shauno> the trick is hoping that your monitor just has slack space inside the bezel :)
<hazrpg> was just seeing if i cover the contacts on the keyset if it would let me use the enter key and it does, however shift key doesn't work :/#
<hazrpg> also, enter key is both enter and hash key#
<hazrpg> must be something to do with the layout thats causing these issues ;/
<shauno> I think I'd have to suggest buying a real keyboard :p
<hazrpg> i would if i could afford one lol
<shauno> reminds me, I need to find a ps2 keyboard sometime soon.  that's going to be fun
<hazrpg> i have lots of those if you want one dude :/
<hazrpg> my motherboard only takes ps/2 mice, not keyboards :/ its odd
<shauno> we discovered we can 'repurpose' some embedded equipment that's being EOL'd at work
<hazrpg> hi, testing, testing, one two three.... using alt keyboard i had lying around...
<hazrpg> grr, some key dont work right :/
<shauno> turns out they're only a soldering iron & a bios flash away from being perfectly boring ECX form-factor x86's
<hazrpg> must be something to do with the keyset
<hazrpg> wow heh
<shauno> only 800MHz /w 256 meg, but 2 ethernet ports & 2 serial ports  (only one is rs232 tho).  going to try to bag one (or two) & make a firewall :)
<shauno> mostly because I've got a crazy plan to see if I can use it as a SLIP gateway for my amiga
<ali1234> last time i used it my amiga supported PPP
<ali1234> and that's very easy to set up
<shauno> slattach & add a route always seemed easy enough
<ali1234> ppp + proxyarp is easier
<hazrpg> how do i find out what drivers are being used for a device, and where the file is?
<ali1234> look in /sys
<shauno> I'll have to have a poke.  should be getting the first one wednesday, but it's kinda moot until I can move my laptop off my monitor
<hazrpg> ali1234: hmm, no luck with that one... want to see if I can change a file somewhere so that I can insert my own values in - like a tweak/hack per say
<ali1234> rebuild the kernel?
<hazrpg> how will that help?
<ali1234> if you want to change drivers...
<hazrpg> do elaborate some more please
<hazrpg> <== only knowledge of a kernel is that it is the big brains of the whole operation, and without it we wouldn't even have an o/s, that it stores drivers, and other various functions, but thats as far as my knowledge goes
<shauno> you're using a different keyboard now ?
<ali1234> do you know what a kernel module is?
<hazrpg> erm, I'm going to guess its like a programming module, and has a set of functions in it for various things (like a plugin?)
<hazrpg> shauno: yeah, I just ripped out my dell server keyboard out and i'm using that right now
<hazrpg> feels so un-natural though, I've been using my zboard for about 4-5 years now
<ali1234> did you make a bug report about this?
<hazrpg> yeah
<hazrpg> I think so at least...
<ali1234> what's the bumber?
<ali1234> i mean bug number
 * hazrpg logs into launchpad
 * hazrpg internet has decided to be slow...
<hazrpg> heh, typical it didn't send :/
<hazrpg> all my other bugs are there but that one :/
 * hazrpg screams @ pc
<hazrpg> ali1234: that would be a no on the bnumber then :/
<hazrpg> bug number*
<ali1234> did you determine that it is a regression?
<hazrpg> yeah, the keyboard was working under 9.10
<ali1234> ok, you should test vanilla kernels between 9.10 and current
<ali1234> not vanilla
<ali1234> use the unnoficial packages
<hazrpg> hmm, how would I do that?
<ali1234> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<ali1234> !info linux karmic
<lubotu3> linux (source: linux-meta): Generic complete Linux kernel.. In component main, is optional. Version 2.6.31.22.35 (karmic), package size 3 kB, installed size 32 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 lpia all)
<ali1234> so start with 2.6.32 kernel
<ali1234> no, start with 2.6.34
<ali1234> basically try to find the latest version where it works
<hazrpg> hmm, I've never had to install a kernel before (minus the whole auto-update process)
 * hazrpg is still a geek in linux training
<ali1234> you need headers_*_all and image_* for your architecture
<ali1234> with is probably amd64
<ali1234> then install them like "sudo dpkg -i *.deb"
<hazrpg> oh wait, hang on... (looks at disc carefully...)
<hazrpg> apparently I tested it on a 32-bit version
<hazrpg> that could potentially wield different results on a 64-bit version... could it not?
 * hazrpg he says as he now burns off a amd64 version
<hazrpg> I just used the disc I got from shipit years ago
<ali1234> just use the kernel package
<shauno> that does make regression-testing fun, if it works in a 32bit 9.10 but not in a 64bit 10.10.  gives you a second dimension of permutations
<ali1234> right, so test the 64 bit 2.6.31 kernel first, and if it works you know it is a kernel regression
<ali1234> i highly doubt arch affects usb devices or keymaps
<hazrpg> indeed :)
<hazrpg> you'd be surprised dude... I hate to use windows as an example, but I refused to use 64-bit versions of them for years (until Win7) because of driver issues
<ali1234> windows is completely different
<hazrpg> thats why i said i hate to use windows as an example :P
<shauno> I'm not sure it's a keymap issue if showkey is pretending the button doesn't exist
<hazrpg> agreed
<ali1234> 64 bit problems were not caused specifically by 64 bit but by them all being closed source and the vendors do not want to pay developers to recompile them
<hazrpg> ah
<hazrpg> right, brb... gonna test this out...
<shauno> kinda messy that removing nginx leaves entries in logrotate.d
<hazrpg> using my netbook for now - man, whoever thought tiny kid sized keys was a cool idea was an idiot lol
<hazrpg> I have a feeling that this disc didn't burn right :/
<hazrpg> taking forever to load
<hazrpg> shauno: ?
<ali1234> just use the kernel package lol
<hazrpg> i would if I knew how :p
<ali1234> like i said
<ali1234> hazrpg: http://pastebin.com/NuaM98Dw
<ali1234> oops ignore that
<ali1234> http://pastebin.com/z3SvGXx6
<hazrpg> okay, this is weird, enter key is non responsive in 64-bit
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> what keyboard is it again?
<hazrpg> zboard
<hazrpg> not zboard merc (as all the ppl on the forum seem to be using)
<ali1234> what are the usb ids?
<ali1234> Bus 002 Device 003: ID 1038:0100 Ideazon, Inc. Zboard
<hazrpg> Bus 008 Device 004: ID 1038:0100 Ideazon, Inc. Zboard
<hazrpg> Bus 008 Device 003: ID 03eb:3301 Atmel Corp. at43301 4-port Hub
<hazrpg> that last one is the USB Hub that's build in
<hazrpg> although its 2 port not 4 :/
<hazrpg> man if I knew how to program drivers... I would try to create one myself :/
<ali1234> pastebin lsmod please
<hazrpg> shall I boot back into 10.10 first?
<ali1234> doesn't matter
<hazrpg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/567208/
<hazrpg> took me a moment to remember that > saves to file lol
<ali1234> generic hid
<ali1234> let's see dmesg
<hazrpg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/567209/
<hazrpg> heh, I just realise - ubuntu is only seeing 2 out of 4 HDDs too :/
<hazrpg> I have a feeling its to do with my motherboard all these issues :/
<ali1234> i think i know the problem
<ali1234> in your bios, is usb legacy support on or off?
 * hazrpg wish i could decipher all these messages
<hazrpg> legacy is set to auto
<ali1234> [    8.410264] generic-usb: probe of 0003:1038:0100.0004 failed with error -22
<ali1234> this is the problem
<hazrpg> so I would assume it's turning it on
<ali1234> the keyboard is not operating on usb
<ali1234> can you show dmesg from 32 bit where it works?
<ali1234> i suspect that even with the new bios your motherboard does not support this keyboard properly in legacy mode
<hazrpg> that was 32-bit
<ali1234> wait what?
<hazrpg> yeah ikr
<ali1234> so it works now?
<ali1234> in 32 bit?
<hazrpg> nope, not a clue why its so on & off like this
<ali1234> so it randomly works?
<hazrpg> out of 5 tries now, on 32-bit it worked twice
<ali1234> is it because of the other keyboard you have plugged in?
<hazrpg> ah crap, could be
<ali1234> bios legacy mode probably only uses the first keyboard it sees
<hazrpg> unplug, reboot?
<ali1234> yeah
<hazrpg> baring in mind the difference between these boots now and the first time I tried - the BIOS was updated
<hazrpg> 0505 was the previous one, and 0802 is the one currently in use as of say 5-6hrs ago
<hazrpg> noticed ubuntu is ignoring my 2 HDD's too
<hazrpg> only showing 2 out of 4
<ali1234> i think you should find a ps2 keyboard and turn off usb legacy support
<hazrpg> but that might just be because of the controllers on the motherboard - 2 of them are showing up in CMOS as primary and the other 2 as secondary
<hazrpg> only have one ps/2 port and i have a feeling its for mice only
<hazrpg> nope, no response from enter key still
<hazrpg> that'll be 2 out of 6 tries now
<ali1234> i would expect it to be for keyboard or autodetecting
<hazrpg> could give it a shot if you like, got a ps/2 keyboard behind me
 * hazrpg so glad he never throws out old working hardware
<hazrpg> still wanting those pastebins?
<ali1234> you might not even need ps2, it's just incase you can't get into the bios with usb if it is turned off
<ali1234> which i doubt actually
<ali1234> especially if it doesn't have ps2 keyboard port
<hazrpg> wish my old motherboard still worked, would test 10.10 on that if i could
<hazrpg> actually wait....!
<hazrpg> i have an older system my sister uses in here that i could put the keyboard into
<hazrpg> also running 10.10
<hazrpg> well ive found my hdd issue
<hazrpg> there 2 white sata ports and 4 black ones
<hazrpg> dvd/2hdd's on in the black and one 2 in the white
<hazrpg> guessing the white ones are why they keep showing up as IDE in BIOS
<ali1234> sounds like you have all the legacy stuff turned on in the bios
<ali1234> turn it off, you don't need it
<hazrpg> heh grub doesn't like my keyboard right now :P
<hazrpg> but that'll be because legacy is off
<ali1234> yes
<hazrpg> however, as far as the hard drives go - i can set it to either "use as IDE" or use as "ACPI" or whatever the AC** is
<hazrpg> nope, no enter key on keyboard still
<ali1234> AHCI
<MartijnVdS> morning everyone
<hazrpg> that would be the one :)
<ali1234> use that one
<MartijnVdS> Always use ACHI :)
<ali1234> dunno about your keyboard though :/
<hazrpg> AHCI doesn't show up anything though ubuntu
<hazrpg> nor in bios
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: it should show up in the bios
<hazrpg> however windows can see those drives tho
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: ah maybe it's "software raid"
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: that it would :)
<hazrpg> which is why i'm planning on moving them over to the other set of SATA ports with the rest of them
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: hazrpg dmraid!
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: dmraid should be able to cope with "assisted raid" from most chipsets
<hazrpg> but the hard drives aren't actually RAID'd as far as I'm aware - they each have their own set of partitions, etc
<MartijnVdS> sure, but if the controller is/was set to RAID mode, it'll set them up differently
<MartijnVdS> it'll add a "header" to the beginning or end of the disk
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: by default it was set to IDE
<hazrpg> and those drives were created on an older system
<hazrpg> moment, going to rip out the keyboard and place into other machine
<hazrpg> nope, not working in that either
<hazrpg> i wonder if the stupid drivers in windows flashed the internal chips of the keyboard too??
<ali1234> ... no
<hazrpg> it was an install package, and the drivers couldn't be loaded any other way
<hazrpg> because I've been using this keyboard for years, and was fine when I used it in my old core 2 duo machine
<hazrpg> problems only started since I started using this i7 one
<hazrpg> old motherboard fried, so had to get a new one, and it was still under warranty so I got a refund :) and got this one
<hazrpg> the old motherboard was really expensive so I was able to get both a half a CPU and a new motherboard
<hazrpg> (other half of the CPU I added on top)
<hazrpg> only decided to load ubuntu on again the other night
<hazrpg> :(
 * hazrpg is a sad bunny
<hazrpg> i'll have to invest in a new keyboard
<Myrtti> moin
<hazrpg> mornin
<hazrpg> hmm, should i have ACPI 2.0 enabled or disabled...
<MartijnVdS> enabled
<MartijnVdS> PnP OS as well
<hazrpg> yeah PnP OS is always the first thing I enabled
<hazrpg> ACPI 2.0 is under power tho...
<MartijnVdS> yeah  but Linux supports it, so turn it on :)
<hazrpg> how bout win7?
<hazrpg> since I dual-boot between thos
<hazrpg> those*
<MartijnVdS> it's good as well
 * hazrpg thumbs up
<MartijnVdS> XP doesn't I think
<hazrpg> its fine, don't use that anymore (think its on one of the HDD's - but that was because it was an old HDD and i've slowly deleted most of the windows related files off it so that I can move them away and format it to ext3/4 at some point
<hazrpg> found out the two white SATA ports are 6Gb/s ports
<hazrpg> guessing ubuntu doesn't support that too well then?
<hazrpg> ali1234: do you still want me to lsmod and dmesg with legacy off?
<hazrpg> before I save and exit
<hazrpg> any keyboard recommendations?
<hazrpg> considering I haven't had to buy one for like 5 years now lol
<AlanBell> hazrpg: good suggestion re openID plugin
<hazrpg> AlanBell: :)
<hazrpg> AlanBell: just thought it would be useful
 * hazrpg really wish the caps lock key would be removed from modern keyboards :/
<hazrpg> or at least re-purposed#
<AlanBell> it is on the google laptop
<AlanBell> and on the OLPC
<MooDoo> hello all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning.
<danfish> hello
<danfish> it seems the only way to update the bios on this samsung laptop is via windows 7 :(
<MooDoo> danfish: always the case mate :S
<danfish> MooDoo: :( as I spent the weekend do a full disk encrypt reinstall of 10.10, I ain't installing w7
<MooDoo> danfish: wine?
<danfish> MooDoo: bit early thanks ;)
<MooDoo> lol
 * AlanBell checks out the lunch menu http://www.hiltonlondonmet.com/hotel/minako
<danfish> I'm not sure wine can be used for this. I'm goning to try and extract the files from the update on a W7 vm, then made a freedos startup usb stick
<MooDoo> danfish: install w7, you know you want to :)
<danfish> AlanBell: looks swanky - pleasure or business?
<danfish> ah, just seen TheOpenSourcerer's tweet.
<AlanBell> mysterious business of some kind
<MooDoo> ooooooo mysterious :)
<popey> morning all
<popey> danfish: annoying isnt it?
<popey> i have a laptop that requires windows for some OS updates but not others
<popey> sometimes you can unpack it all and find a floppy disk image inside or a dos executable
<danfish> popey: very irritating. There does seem to be dos executable, so maybe freedos will work
<popey> yeah, that may work
<TheOpenSourcerer> I used to have a script that would build a small Freedos ISO with the files I needed for BIOS updates. But hopefully in a few short years all PCs will have Linux built-in anyway :-)
<daubers> orning
<DJones> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Awning daubers
<daubers> So the age of Daviey is coming to a close then
<DJones> daubers: Yep, certainly is
 * daubers awaits for the mass protests in Gwibber Square, near Shotwell Corner
<MooDoo> lol
<DJones> daubers: Protests on stepping down to early, or to late :)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<daubers> o/
<DJones> Any sign of BigCalm yet, or is still celebrating
<MooDoo> DJones: celebrating?  did he do it?
<AlanBell> MooDoo: http://twitter.com/#!/bigcalm/status/37257391665975296
<DJones> MooDoo: 21:10 < czajkowski> Bigcalm popped the questions, his gf said yes!
<czajkowski> MooDoo: he confirmed it on twitter last night
<czajkowski> :d
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yes he said he was going to do it :) woohoo, crazy fool ;)
<MooDoo> DJones: he's a crazy fool :) pmsl ;)
<DJones> MooDoo: Heh
<MooDoo> DJones: he says being married for 4 years lol
<DJones> MooDoo: 7 years for me, 8 years in June
<daubers> At least it'll cut down his car insurance
<MooDoo> lol
<czajkowski> such a romantic bunch you lot are
 * czajkowski wallops MooDoo DJones daubers 
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oi behave.....
<MooDoo> czajkowski: we're not romantic because we've not met you yet...isn't it obvious :)
<daubers> czajkowski: Well, it is a major benefit! Saved me ~Â£300 a year on mine!
<DJones> Must admit, getting married has been the best thing to happen in my life :)
<daubers> MooDoo: That doesn't necesserily work
<MooDoo> daubers: shhhhh i'm creeping :)
<daubers> DJones: It certainly ranks up there with being born in the first place
<DJones> daubers: Good point
<czajkowski> daubers: she wasnt on your insurance till you married her ?
<daubers> czajkowski: She was, but being married reduced the premium
<czajkowski> hah
<daubers> czajkowski: Apparently married couples are statistically less likely to have an accident
<daubers> load of rubbish IMHO, but saved me some dosh :)
<daubers> Till I went and got a car with a bigger engine anyway
<danfish> I got married 11 years ago and my wife still won't change her surname
<AlanBell> danfish: keeping her options open
<danfish> mind you, her first name is Tina, and my surname is Fish, so "Tina Fish"
<czajkowski> daubers::)
<daubers> Hah! If we'd have waited till the end ofthis year my missus wouldn't have been able to change her surname without major issues 'cause of the soliceters regulatory body or somesuch (so she said)
<czajkowski> danfish: is she still unsure :p
<danfish> her middle name is Michelle, so effectively her name would be "tin of shell fish"
<AlanBell> sudo make me a tina fish sandwich
<danfish> AlanBell: czajkowski :P
<MooDoo> my gran was called cox and my surname is mellors, so she double barreled her surname.....doh!
<czajkowski> MooDoo: onoly in your family!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i was just making a point of the funny name when you say them together lol
<czajkowski> MooDoo: sure...
 * czajkowski likes her surname 
<czajkowski> it's very unique and very me :)
<czajkowski> literlaly, irc, twitter identi.ca etc
<czajkowski> *literally
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you do realize when we meet you're going to be called laura and if i ever try to say your surname it's going to be cz<tab>
<MooDoo> ;)
 * czajkowski frowns 
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm kiddingh
<czajkowski> danfish: still on std conference duty ?
<DJones> czajkowski: He gave up & went home ill yesterday
<czajkowski> DJones: eh ?
<DJones> czajkowski: He blamed his wife for giving him flu, went to work & then said he was going home ill
<czajkowski> DJones: ahhhh...
<czajkowski> DJones: he's also going to a conference the day we all meet up for rugby
<DJones> czajkowski: Ah, I was thinking you meant he was at a conference this week
<DJones> yesterday/today
<czajkowski> nope :)
<czajkowski> he does attend a lot of conferences
<revo> hello
<danfish> reports of my demise can be ignored - have upgraded my health status from 'At Death's door" to "Should pull through"
<MooDoo> revo: hello
<MooDoo> BIGCALM!!!!
<revo> i have screen-saver off and power management set to never but it keeps turning off the monitor after 5 minutes, help!
<revo> lucid 10.04
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> o/ bigcalm
<danfish> czajkowski: I will still be attending the STD conference during the rugby meetup :(
<AlanBell> danfish: you don't want to go and look at odd shaped balls then?
<DJones> AlanBell: Thats a quick thinking comment
<danfish> AlanBell: hah. Also I might not get the attendees goodie bag for this conference ;)
 * DJones plays the wedding march for bigcalm ... Congratulations
<czajkowski> bigcalm: CONGRATS
<bigcalm> Hehe, cheers :)
<bigcalm> I love how my twitter and facebook feeds are a mixture of knowing and confused :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: you crazy fool :)
<DJones> bigcalm: The question of the day... Was it a Haribo ring that won your _fiance_ over
<bigcalm> MooDoo: not far off
<bigcalm> DJones: it must have been. She ate it
<MooDoo> bigcalm: don't worry you'll realise it goes downhill from now on ;)
<bigcalm> Oi :P
<czajkowski> MooDoo: shrup you pup
<czajkowski> bigcalm: congrats and well done!
<bigcalm> czajkowski: thank you :)
 * bigcalm hugs czajkowski tight
<czajkowski> bigcalm: so what part of the meal did you do it at
<MooDoo> bigcalm: +1 :) you'll love it :)
<bigcalm> After I asked, the 1st thing she said was "you crazy bugger"
<DJones> bigcalm: A cousin got engaged on christmas day, she posted on twitter yesterday that she'd got her first ever "fiance valentines day card"
<bigcalm> After wat seemed an age, she said yes :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: bended knee?
<czajkowski> bigcalm: did you tell her you sounded the question on irc , she may think you're even more crazier!
<bigcalm> czajkowski: no, I didn't actually
<bigcalm> MooDoo: yep
<MooDoo> bigcalm: rock on :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: smart
<czajkowski> bigcalm: so when did you ask her
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> After we'd stuffed ourselves silly with curry
<czajkowski> :D
<bigcalm> She didn't want a desert or coffee, so thought "now or never"
<MooDoo> awesome
<bigcalm> Well, not quite "never", but...
<bigcalm> Nice quiet local balti house
<czajkowski> bigcalm: awwww
<czajkowski> bigcalm: did you go down on one knee
<czajkowski> :p
<bigcalm> czajkowski: of course :)
<czajkowski> :o
<bigcalm> Hehe, just got an email from Hayley: "You should have heard the shrieks in this office, when I told the girls that you asked me to marry you!  They think itâs wonderful news."
<MooDoo> bless :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: awww
<czajkowski> bigcalm: we did wondered last night, and the tweet confirmed it
<MooDoo> rats, no wonder i didn't see it, /me follows bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hayley wants to tell her parents before saying anything on twitter or facebook. Which makes me feel a bit silly for saying anything.
<bigcalm> Ah well, the responces on Facebook are mostly confused as they weren't privvy to the pre-conversation
<MooDoo> bigcalm: s/silly/excited :)
<bigcalm> Yes, I was/am. I wanted to shout it out
<czajkowski> bigcalm: :)
<czajkowski> http://yfrog.com/gysm6vnj:iphone  <------ sooo cute
 * TheOpenSourcerer asked Mrs TheOpenSourcerer at the Savoy on News Years Eve in 1996/7
<TheOpenSourcerer> Married since '98
<bigcalm> czajkowski: awwwwwwww
<czajkowski> aye :D
 * AlanBell popped the question at the Hen and Chickens
<AlanBell> funnily enough
 * MooDoo popped it while packing for a family holiday :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you really do worry me sometimes!
<AlanBell> that was about 10 years before I developed Obsessive Chicken Disorder though
<AlanBell> http://www.henandchicken.co.uk/
<TheOpenSourcerer> That evening was rather pash. We had a stretched Limo from my Flat in Fulham - with Champagne on ice in the car. The Dinner was something like 12 courses and they had the Grenadier Guards playing at Midnight! Cost me a packet but hey - she's worth it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/pash/posh
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: you old softie
<bigcalm> Just the 2 of you in a streched limmo?
<TheOpenSourcerer> No, there was another couple too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> PaRa77server41
<TheOpenSourcerer> blast. Wrong Window.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ignore that everyone.
 * AlanBell slaps TheOpenSourcerer 
<bigcalm> root a toot toot?
 * AlanBell waits for the password file to update
<screen-x> morning :)
<bigcalm> Hi screen-x
<screen-x> just read the scroll back, congratulations bigcalm :)
<screen-x> \o/ marriage
<bigcalm> Thank you :)
<bigcalm> screen-x: I just read that as Peter Cook
<MooDoo> bigcalm: so whens the ubuntu-uk stag do ;)
<bigcalm> Oh crikey
 * DJones also wonders if bigcalm has set a date yet?
<bigcalm> I can't think beyond Wednesday yet
<Joseph__> \join #liux-ha
<Joseph__> \join #linux-ha
<bigcalm> Joseph__: you need to use /
<DJones> Joseph__: its /join
<JamesTait> Happy Day-After-Valentine's-Day!
<Joseph__> doh!
<bigcalm> Aww
<hazrpg> AlanBell: wow I did not know that (the OLPC keyboard)
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://opensource.cbronline.com/news/uk-government-department-to-use-open-source-data-integration-150211
<Myrtti> meh
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: did you see http://siriusit.co.uk/blogs/12-feb-2011/open-business-smes-take-place-public-sector-table
<TheOpenSourcerer> I did indeed czajkowski http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/news/government-opens-contracts-small-business
<mungojerry> theopensourcerer i found the article impossible to read!
<mungojerry> the cbronline article
<AlanBell> yeah, helps if you have seen Talend to understand that one
<hazrpg> heh, liking the soppy msgs above ^^
<hazrpg> grats btw bigcalm :)
<mungojerry> it's written like an el reg article
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: aye another summit next week as well
 * hazrpg has a feeling that most of the people here have known each other for a while
<MooDoo> hazrpg: too long ;)
<hazrpg> lol
<hazrpg> see I've been jumping in and out of here since 7.10/8.04, but well I was never really that talkative
<bigcalm> hazrpg: thank you :)
<MooDoo> hazrpg: you lurker you :)
<hazrpg> MooDoo: well I meant until recently :P
<MooDoo> lol :)
<hazrpg> heh, I'm a wimp sometimes... everyone already seemed to know each other, soooo feeling like the new kid just felt wrong somehow lol
<MooDoo> hazrpg: well don't let that ever stop you, we're a friendly bunch as you've worked out
<hazrpg> oh wow, brobostigon has a blog post dating 2009 about me :o!
<bigcalm> Bloody connection. What is VM playing at today?
<hazrpg> MooDoo: yeah I worked that out from day one :P, I was just more fearful because I didn't want to seem like a complete newbie
<hazrpg> still bites how cumbria seems to have a lack of decent LUG
<hazrpg> bigcalm: what's up?
<dwatkins> bigcalm: ironically, this page doesn't appear to load correctly: https://national.virginmedia.com/service-announcements/status
<MooDoo> hazrpg: make one
<bigcalm> My connection is up and down today
<hazrpg> MooDoo: there is one, but as far as I can tell... its not active :/
<bigcalm> dwatkins: heh
<MooDoo> hazrpg: well there you go then, email the list and see if anyone wants to meet up for a friendly discussing ;) maybe at a pub :)
<hazrpg> heh personally I think we should get like a big ol' ubuntu gathering of sorts somewhere
<czajkowski> hazrpg: can do, but people then say wher X place is too far from them
<hazrpg> czajkowski: tell me about it :/
<czajkowski> nothing to stop anyone just syaing I'm here lets meet up and do something even if it is go for a beer or have a talk
<TheOpenSourcerer> did someone say beer?
<selinuxium> I think someone did...
<MooDoo> yay beer.....
<dwatkins> Is anyone else living in or near Edinburgh who frequents this channel? Just curious in case we could meet.
<czajkowski> March 19th :D
<hazrpg> dwatkins: near... ish... lol I have a car!
<hazrpg> its 2 hrs away from edinburgh... but have car will travel :)
<MooDoo> nottingham for me
<popey> congrats bigcalm !
<bigcalm> popey: thank you :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: babies next :p
<bigcalm> MooDoo: nope :)
<selinuxium> bigcalm, What did I miss?>
<bigcalm> MooDoo: cats & dogs
<dwatkins> hazrpg: cool, what general area?
<MooDoo> hehe
<bigcalm> selinuxium: I asked my GF to marry me last night
<selinuxium> Yay!!!
<czajkowski> and she said yes :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<dwatkins> bigcalm: woohoo! what kind of ring did you go for?
 * dwatkins was looking into a Portal companion cube box recently for such things in the future
<hazrpg> czajkowski: I once helped organise some ska music here in our local rock giggery type place (usually they have unknowns), since everyone complained there wasn't any decent ska bands coming here... and well I pitched in some money along with a few others, I did the DJing and so did a few others... and well it wasn't for profit, we just wanted to at least break even so we could arrange more... and for the first few it was fine... but then it just went dow
<AlanBell> czajkowski: speaking of beer, how many tickets am I getting?
<selinuxium> Congrats
<selinuxium> AlanBell, all this talk of beer...
<selinuxium> what is happening I don't know about??? :)
<hazrpg> dwatkins: Carlisle
<dwatkins> My girlfriend has seen this, and pointed out if I want her to ever say yes to The Question, I need to do something similarly awesome: http://risu-san.deviantart.com/art/Companion-Cube-Ring-Box-113116455
<czajkowski> AlanBell: hah I mentioned it to him and he looked at me as if I had 2 heads
 * AlanBell can confirm that czajkowski looks very dissimilar to Zapod Beeblebrox
<bigcalm> Hehe
<czajkowski> ;p
<bigcalm> dwatkins: It was a Harribo ring
<hazrpg> dwatkins: see that could mean either she'd want it to be a companion cube, or be something else she's into though... but I might be wrong, also that is pretty awesome
<dwatkins> bigcalm: nice :)
<dwatkins> hazrpg: the companion cube is a recurring theme with us - I made her one for her birthday last year
<hazrpg> dwatkins: aww, what'd ya make it out of?
<dwatkins> hazrpg: 2mm thick card, mostly, just getting pictures to show off :D
 * AlanBell throws hat into the ring https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/2011Election
<hazrpg> :P
<czajkowski> selinuxium: march 19th isn't long away!!
<andylockran> howdy all
<mungojerry> bigcalm , u did the haribo ring thing too?
<andylockran> czajkowski: March 19th should be brilliant
<andylockran> can't see the greens getting a result though
<bigcalm> mungojerry: we'll go ring shopping at the weekend maybe :)
<mungojerry> i wonder if u can get paperweights made which contain items of your choice
<andylockran> mungojerry: just use the items direct
<mungojerry> i wanted to embed a haribo ring in one
<bigcalm> mungojerry: it would melt
<andylockran> mungojerry: on second thoughts, that wouldn't make a good paperweight on it's own.
<mungojerry> :(
<czajkowski> andylockran: I know :(
<czajkowski> I;m going to have to drink a lot
<andylockran> czajkowski: who else do you have at home?
<czajkowski> andylockran: eh ?
<andylockran> at the aviva this tournament - who else do Ireland host?
<andylockran> France, England + Wales?
<dwatkins> hazrpg: http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i272/dominic_watkins/companion_cube1.jpg and http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i272/dominic_watkins/companion_cube2.jpg :D
<czajkowski> andylockran: oh we got france last week, england next month.   not sure
<andylockran> aye - thinking it about it I've just realised we only play 5 games, hence might have only 2 there.
<hazrpg> dwatkins: that's awesome dude :)
<dwatkins> thanks hazrpg :) took me quite a while to make, you'll never guess what she made me at the same time, though
<DJones> mungojerry: bigcalm I wonder whether the craft resin mentioned in this http://www.helium.com/items/1425920-how-to-make-paperweights would work for the haribo ring paperweight idea?
 * MooDoo is waiting for someone to propose by showing the other half a minecraft created ring ;)
<BigRedS> I'm pretty sure proposal-on-minecraft has bindun already...
<bigcalm> popey wanted me to do so
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> My GF isn't a geek though :P
<AlanBell> bigcalm: hope you let him down gently
<popey> haha
<mungojerry> djones, i notice that it's an exothermic reaction, although this might be sufficient http://shpangle.blogspot.com/2010/10/haribo-jelly-sweet-engagement-ring.html
<bigcalm> AlanBell: haha
<dwatkins> http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i272/dominic_watkins/stargate.jpg - my girlfriend is a geek *proud grin*
<MooDoo> my wife hates sci-fi :(
<mungojerry> moodoo, my wife watches it, and i don;t :P
<mungojerry> they seem like soap operas in space to me
<MooDoo> lol
<dwatkins> most of them are...
<hazrpg> dwatkins: what'd she make you :P?
<dwatkins> hazrpg: see my previous line :D
 * mungojerry is noticing that google results are getting worse. they are are fake SEO links
 * BigRedS implores everyone to use a terminal font that makes ,s look obviously different to .s
<SuperMatt> heh
<czajkowski> .s ,s
<SuperMatt> I use droid sans mono right now
<BigRedS> yeah. ,com isn't the same as .com apparently
<dwatkins> bigcalm: someone sent me a link on twitter yesterday with a comma instead of a dot, it was a tinified one, too
<SuperMatt> though it's not very good at differentiating 0O 1l
<dwatkins> oops, sorry, BigRedS
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<dwatkins> tab-complete fail
<andylockran> is it possible to change the framebuffer resolution without rebooting?
<BigRedS> haha
<dwatkins> andylockran: I think xrandr can do that
<hazrpg> dwatkins: yeah, sorry was reading what I missed as I was typing that :P
<dwatkins> hazrpg: no worries :)
<andylockran> dwatkins: I'm in text-based console, ttys with no X
<hazrpg> dwatkins: haha, that is mega win :D
 * MooDoo is using irssi
<SuperMatt> irssi wins
<andylockran> any change you could provide a command?
<Baikonur> irssi is nice
<ali1234> i converted the ets-teletext pcf font into a ttf, it makes a nice terminal font: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/teletext2.ttf
<ali1234> no unicode support though
<hazrpg> ali1234: wow... that font looks like... minecraft!
<SuperMatt> why don't most people put a dot in the middle of, or a line through the zero?
<SuperMatt> it makes life so much easier
<dwatkins> andylockran: oh right
<ali1234> well theres only so many ways you can make a font in 6x10 pixels
<hazrpg> AlanBell: when's the election and how does it get processed exactly?
<dwatkins> ali1234: awesome, teletext was a really nice display mode
<hazrpg> ali1234: very true
<dwatkins> I do wonder if fonts that small can be copyrighted
<s-fox> Hello.
<ali1234> i dunno, but if they can, that one is probably copyright phillips semiconductor
<MooDoo> s-fox: hello there
<ali1234> because it is lifted from the saa5243 teletext character generator chip
<s-fox> Hell MooDoo :) How are you ?
<ali1234> however the pcf version is packaged on ubuntu, that's where i got it from
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm very well thank you :)  and what about your good self
<s-fox> Well I don't know much about good self but I am okay. Just updated my ubuntu wiki. Looked a little out of date :)
<s-fox> MooDoo,   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Silver_Fox
<s-fox> :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: i was already there, but thanks ;)
<s-fox> lol, okay :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: looks good :D
<mungojerry> who's running natty on real hardware?
 * MooDoo shakes head
<DJones> s-fox: Is your pin on the "Where are we" on the ubuntu-uk site a bit misplaced?
<s-fox> DJones,  Possibly - I am not sure it was even pinned correctly in the first place ;)
<s-fox> Got the link so I can have a look? I don't have it to hand :(
<DJones> s-fox: Its shows you as being in New Jersey USA :)
<DJones> http://ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/
<s-fox> Well, I had to be different ;)
<bigcalm> It's live now?
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> bigcalm: Yep
<s-fox> But yes,  it is a little off ;)
<s-fox> Also the description is huge, needs a <br/>
<s-fox> :)
<s-fox> DJones, Anyway to move it ?
<DJones> s-fox: I'm not sure, best person to ask will be AlanBell
<mungojerry> running natty on a 5yr old pentium D 2.80ghz machine with intel graphics...feels faster than previous releases
<hazrpg> s-fox: might have to poke an admin/mod to do that
 * hazrpg pokes AlanBell
<s-fox> Thanks MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: no worries....makes me want to fix mine now lol
<MooDoo> s-fox: mine is VERY bare
<s-fox> Link?
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulMellors    it's not even worth a look to be honest lol
<s-fox> Too late
<MooDoo> s-fox: see what i mean :)
<s-fox> Loaded nice and fast though
<MooDoo> coz there isn't anything on it :) lol
<s-fox> lol
<MooDoo> s-fox: might actually start doing stuff with ubuntu one day ;)
 * hazrpg thinks he should maybe make a wiki...
<MooDoo> hazrpg: go for it, it's easy enough :)
<hazrpg> anyone know when the next series of the podcast starts?
<popey> yes
<s-fox> MooDoo,  I have a special relationship with Ubuntu. Basically if it packs up it knows I will distro hop
<MooDoo> s-fox: so you'll be using ubuntu for a while then?
<MooDoo> ;)
<MooDoo> ah you mean your install on your machine :)
<hazrpg> popey: when is it, or is it a secret?
<MooDoo> hazrpg: perhaps it's the ID way of doing it, it's done when it's done :D
<hazrpg> :P
<s-fox> Well I have done the circuit, but I keepp coming back to it. Rather odd. That said I am running Debian Squeeze on my laptop ;)
<s-fox> @ MooDoo
<popey> hazrpg: "soon"
<hazrpg> ^^
<hazrpg> guessing no one has made a logo for it yet?
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm running squeeze on my debian ssh vm :)
<MooDoo> hazrpg: yes they have
<hazrpg> shoot
<MooDoo> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/
<hazrpg> MooDoo: wait, isn't that the same logo but a different colour?
<MooDoo> hazrpg: maybe but it's still a logo
<hazrpg> I recall AlanBell saying they wanted a new one?
<hazrpg> been playing the idea of making one since I read him talking about it
<MooDoo> ah
<MooDoo> s-fox: do you like squeeze?
 * screen-x squeezes MooDoo 
<MooDoo> screen-x: squeeze, not a squeeze, but thanks it was nice :)
<popey> we are in the process of making a new logo
<s-fox> Sure, though to be honest I haven't noticed much in the way of change MooDoo . Still stable as anything :)
<hazrpg> popey: ah, ok fair enough
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to get that out of the way
<s-fox> MooDoo,  I am however looking forward to gimp 2.7
<MooDoo> s-fox: yup, was thinking of trying it on my laptop, but apps are just too far behind for my liking
 * DJones expects that the new logo will be built in minecraft
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 oi less of it 
<dwatkins> Voxels for teh win!
<hazrpg> DJones: I was tempted xD
<MooDoo> s-fox: isn't that the one with the one screen ala photoshop
<s-fox> MooDoo, Yes :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: you started it yesterday :P
<AlanBell> Choo choo
<s-fox> Here comes the train ;)
<MooDoo> s-fox: yeah i'm looking forward to that
<hazrpg> AlanBell: ^^
<MooDoo> davmor2: alright mentor :)
<AlanBell> I am looking forward to lunch
<davmor2> MooDoo: I wouldn't stand for s-fox calling you 2.7 of a gimp  you either are or aren't ;)
<s-fox> MooDoo,  My laptop usually only runs 3 applications: gedit, gFTP and iceweasel
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm sure i can cope, i'm big enough
<s-fox> I have no need of latest and greatest ;)
<MooDoo> s-fox: result then :)
<s-fox> Pretty much, that is probably why I am happy with it :)
<andylockran> ewww - our xml+xsl transforms with IE9 are not good
<andylockran> works with IE9 in compat mode, but fails first time in native mode.. on refresh works fine
<bigcalm> Why does IE insist on being different like this?
<andylockran> anyone any tips on howto debug this?
<hazrpg> andylockran: isn't ie9 still in beta?
<diplo> RC now
<MooDoo> hazrpg: rc was released
<hazrpg> bigcalm: personally I don't see why microsoft just give up on the browser market - they fail so bad
<andylockran> I'm testing against the RC
<hazrpg> diplo, MooDoo: no way! :o
<bigcalm> They still have a large market share
<diplo> Got lot's of dev myself for IE9 :/
 * hazrpg wonders how IE9 fairs with acid test
<andylockran> 95/100
<andylockran> on  acid3
<hazrpg> bigcalm: large doesn't mean good though, its only large because it comes pre-packaged with the O/S
<hazrpg> andylockran: ooo, they're finally getting there!
<diplo> I was looking at stats to some of our customer sites yesterday, it's kinda scary how old browsers people use.
<hazrpg> andylockran: however, I wouldn't be surprised if they're just aiming to pass the test and nothing else
<diplo> Refusing to support IE6 now and anything older than FF3
<diplo> IE7 is giving me enough of a headache
<hazrpg> diplo: I do the same, I always place this on my website: http://www.ie6nomore.com/
<hazrpg> on websites I make*
<diplo> I'm thinking of doing wat Facebook does, and a little JS dropdown that fades away, saying your browser is now % years old and really needs updating to make your OS secure.
<diplo> Windows update or use one of these alternative browsers.
<hazrpg> wow didn't know fb did that
<hazrpg> but then again I haven't used an old browser in years
<diplo> yer, just installed a vm on this box with a clean XP install and upgraded IE6 to IE7
<diplo> thought i'd see how FB displayed in ie7 and that came up first of all
<hazrpg> diplo: I just use, http://browsershots.org/ most of the time
<diplo> Doesn't help me, ours is a shop that integrates with our ERP system, so need to see more in depth
<diplo> It breaks on the more complex parts
<hazrpg> diplo: ah
<hazrpg> so not so much on the visuals, more on the javascript, etc
<diplo> yeah and partly visuals
<hazrpg> I hate having to code in exceptions to my finely tuned code just so it works on old browsers :/
<diplo> yep same here, frustrating the hell out of me
<hazrpg> trust me, know the feeling
<diplo> Also displays differently on same version of FF on windows and linux
<diplo> We both develop under ubuntu, but I've found I'm having to test in it all now
<hazrpg> yeah, its something to do with how things are parsed on different platforms
<hazrpg> e.g. as I noticed when I was coding Java for uni a few years back
<hazrpg> something I worked on work perfectly well in linux, but in windows it popped up with millions of different errors
<hazrpg> which dropped my mark by about 10% :(
<hazrpg> found out, it was something to do with how windows and linux processes "return carriage"
<hazrpg> I had to go through all the code in windows and replace all the returns by deleting them and then adding them back in again :/
<diplo> heh
 * dwatkins tears up his visa debit card which has been cloned by fraudsters
<hazrpg> can imagine how long that took for over 300 lines of code :/
<diplo> :(
<andylockran> don't suppose that MS devs have an IRC channel on freenode for IE issues?
<hazrpg> dwatkins: :o!
<screen-x> dwatkins:  >:(
<andylockran> dwatkins: sorry to hear that!
<hazrpg> dwatkins: what happened!?
<dwatkins> cheers folks, it appears the fraudsters took the really dumb move of trying to register on netflix with my card about half an hour before I woke up this morning, which was particularly stupid, and my bank [HSBC] noted this and called me :)
<hazrpg> dwatkins: yeah I do like that about HSBC
 * dwatkins has two halves of a credit card on his desk
<mungojerry> vista hilarity of the day: logged on as admin, i'm told that i need admin rights to install windows updates and should log on as admin
<dwatkins> ironically, I was just thinking the other day that I need a new card as this one had a crack in it, and I was saying yesterday how I need to make sure I don't spend any more money over the next couple months
<hazrpg> first day I was in the Philippines, and tried to take money out I got a call on my mobile from HSBC making sure it was me that was doing the transaction
<Myrtti> I dislike how their internet banking can be so sucky
<dwatkins> hazrpg: that's pretty good - I had my previous card cloned when I travelled to Malta - turns out it was used in Athens the same day I got cash out in Reading
<mungojerry> hazrpg, unfortunately tesco block my CC for buying breakfast in sainsbury's or shopping with tesco internet delivery
<dwatkins> Myrtti: yeah, although it generally works very well
<dwatkins> mungojerry: why do they block it?
<andylockran> evidently some guy emails my flatmates work y'day with his entire credit card details as he failed to process the payment using their online form
<screen-x> Myrtti: online banking does have a massive capacity to be sucky..
<mungojerry> dwatkins, i dunno. it should be consistent with my behaviour, and the internet food delivery is sents to my house
<screen-x> Myrtti: my personal fav is that I can only download 3 months or N transactions at a time, very annoying.
<hazrpg> mungojerry: really?
<mungojerry> i now avoid using my card in the self service tills
<mungojerry> i've been blocked 2 or 3 times now
<Myrtti> screen-x: my personal favourite is that making transactions to europe is possible only during opening hours
<hazrpg> mungojerry: saying that, I find each time I use my DC on a site that I wouldn't normally I end up with a phone call or a message in my Internet Banking
<mungojerry> thats more civilised
<mungojerry> i just get blocked and have to call a 0845 number (not part of my mobile minutes)
<hazrpg> dwatkins: wow, that's just odd... clearly the guy can really move!
<mungojerry> a friend of mine had her card nicked and 900 quid was spent in 30 minutes - how?
<screen-x> Myrtti: really? that  really does suck, lets take real world constraints and apply them to the internets..
<mungojerry> is chip and pin that broken?
<popey> i get phone calls from my bank whenever i buy something from someone I haven't bought from before
<popey> like paying my VAT bill yesterday
<dwatkins> popey: every time? wow
<Myrtti> screen-x: they must have a button somewhere that turns that on and off, literally, as we tried to send money to Germany on 1st of Jan but couldn't because of New Years AND banking holiday on the 3rd
<screen-x> so when copying popeys credit cards... buy from apple :D
<mungojerry> lol
<popey> 51
<Myrtti> which sucked, because the money needed to be in Germany by the 7th, and the banks say it may take up to four days
<screen-x> Myrtti: annoyances :(
<Myrtti> so we ended up emptying my bank account for the transaction, because Finnish banks don't have such limitations
 * dwatkins wonders how many companies he needs to update with his new details
<hazrpg> Myrtti: yeah sending money to anywhere via bank transfers outside of your local branch does take a minimum of 3-5 work days, sometimes more depending on where your sending it and when
<screen-x> dwatkins: n+3, where n is the ones you can remember
<dwatkins> screen-x: most likely, yeah
<hazrpg> dwatkins: heh, see that's one reason why I never updated my address on mine!
<hazrpg> dwatkins: my address is still registered to my dad's house
 * mungojerry wonders why he lives in a LUG blackspot :(
<hazrpg> mungojerry: join the club :(
<MooDoo> mungojerry: start your own :)
<BigRedS> 'cause you haven't started one yet :)
<hazrpg> mungojerry: also... been meaning to say this since I saw the name... "In the summer time, when the weather is hot..."
<mungojerry> i should change my name, but it's too late now
 * screen-x whistles
<hazrpg> too late why?
<mungojerry> that song is catchy but don't read the lyrics - it's not v nice
<mungojerry> generally about womanising and drink driving
<popey> mungojerry: where do you live?
<mungojerry> n london
<mungojerry> work in e london
<screen-x> surely london cant be a lug blackspot..
<popey> GLLUG
<hazrpg> mungojerry: dude, there must be lots of people in london part of a LUG surely!
<mungojerry> the centre of gravity seems to be weighted towards SW - surrey
<screen-x> SLUG \o/
<hazrpg> <== I live in Cumbria, that's much worse
 * screen-x enjoyed surrey lug
<mungojerry> the lonix lug seems basically to be a beer drinking fest and w london based
<mungojerry> surrey lug looks civilised and nice
<BigRedS> gllug is quite beer-based, it's mostly also london.pm
<mungojerry> hertfordshire lug is stevenage- too far
<BigRedS> I'm pretty sure there are other linuxish user groups around there, too, though. Perl, php, python etc
<hazrpg> #cumbria_lug
<hazrpg> might help to add /join right?
<screen-x> uh oh, a4 page dividied in two, strenghts on one side weakneses on the other..
<DJones> hazrpg: /join needs to be on the left, not the right :)
<hazrpg> see... ever time I go in there, there's either me and chanserv... although seems to have another guy in there for once!
<screen-x> "gets distracted by irc"
<hazrpg> wow, the main wiki for CLUG was updated in 2008!
<hazrpg> *sigh*
<hazrpg> DJones: wise-guy :P
<MooDoo> hazrpg: now it the time for haz-lug :)
<MooDoo> do it do it
<hazrpg> haha
<hazrpg> who would join haz-lug though :P
<MooDoo> there is a channel already ready for you #hazlug :)
<hazrpg> xD
<MooDoo> lol
<hazrpg> can't believe the CLUG is just a glorified wiki :P
 * hazrpg wonders how hard it would be to conduct a survey to see how many users in Carlisle use linux of some sort
 * hazrpg feels a project coming on
<MooDoo> fliers :)
<hazrpg> I'm sure enough people are sick of fliers in cumbria lol
<hazrpg> or even carlisle
<hazrpg> I get like a minimum of 10 a day
<hazrpg> I might make an app for my android and go round town asking people :p
<hazrpg> might have to check with the council to make sure I can do that though...
<screen-x> the council have to approve new android apps? ;-)
<hazrpg> haha, no
<hazrpg> I meant for asking people in town if they used linux
<hazrpg> heh, I could even burn off a good couple of dozen ubuntu cd's too ^^
<hazrpg> I mean I have 500+ blank discs at the moment
<MooDoo> hazrpg: or speak to ship-it nicely :)
<hazrpg> that too :)
<hazrpg> would be a good way to unload some of my business cards too ^^
<screen-x> what do you do, hazrpg?
<hazrpg> at the moment, final year of my degree @ uni (or rather my only year at uni) - did a HND before this
<hazrpg> and currently doing a freelance project for a hotel booking system
<hazrpg> mainly specialise in html/css/php that sort of thing
<hazrpg> I'm in no way a designer though, I like doing it - but I just don't have the patience for it half the time
<hazrpg> for me a design could take months before I'm fully happy with it
<screen-x> hazrpg: I can understand that..
<hazrpg> and even then, clients just want something simple
<hazrpg> I'm a jack of all trades when it comes to programming
<hazrpg> I know many languages, just not great at all
<hazrpg> php I enjoy the most, mainly because you don't need to worry about how its going to look - html/css/js will sort that later on
<hazrpg> with C++ I still can't get out of the habit of thinking "man its going to be impossible to make a GUI"
<hazrpg> I can make an OpenGL window pop up, with whatever dimensions I want... but after that... I sort of just give up and toss it aside lol
<screen-x> I've never tried using programming with opengl.
<screen-x> should try it one day
<screen-x> talking of which, hows the zoomify thing coming on, AlanBell?
<screen-x> ah overview
<hazrpg> I keep meaning to mess with OpenGL more...
<hazrpg> I have an SVN loaded up on my server for two projects, that have so far gone nowhere
<hazrpg> https://hazrpg.co.uk:8443/svn/lgp-project/ and https://hazrpg.co.uk:8443/svn/lgp-catchem/
<hazrpg> lgp-project - will be the base game engine (hopefully multi-platform, linux/windows/psp/dc/ds)
<hazrpg> and lgp-catchem will be sort of the test project for the engine
<hazrpg> if you want to see what I have so far I have a read-only account... test:pass
<screen-x> sounds ambitious
<hazrpg> lgp-project has mainly resources and test files so far
<hazrpg> lgp btw stands for "Lizards: Game Programming"
<hazrpg> catchem isn't really a proper codename, I just thought at the time there aren't any real open-sourced "gotta catch 'em all" type games out there, so I wanted to make my own
<hazrpg> screen-x: a lot of my plans usually are lol
<hazrpg> but they always get done before I even begin by someone else :/
<hazrpg> already noticed google and someone else is working on a browser plugin (or possibly native support) for 3D in the browser
<hazrpg> I have an SVN called lgp-browser, which I wanted to start up too - but quickly gave up when I found it was already being done
<hazrpg> btw, the group can be found @ http://groups.google.com/group/lizards-game-programming
<directhex> there are gui toolkits for opengl, btw
<gord> there are about a billion of them ;) they all mostly suck
<directhex> solution: gui in gtk, 3d in gtkglarea gtk widget!
<X3N> Clutter FTW
<hazrpg> directhex: yeah I know ;)
<hazrpg> in the google group I made, I made massive lists of one's we could use
<hazrpg> and other projects with similar goals
<gord> X3N, clutter is pretty cool, but its not a gui toolkit
<hazrpg> right hang on, seems google is pulling support for files and pages from google groups
<hazrpg> just going to download all the stuff I have before they're wiped
<hazrpg> google seems to be pulling a lot of projects recently :/
<hazrpg> wave is another example of a projecting being pulled
<hazrpg> well not so much pulled, but the site is though
<hazrpg> I thought wave was fantastic... but clearly they haven't met their targets or expectations towards it
<X3N> gord: clutter + mx
<X3N> or you can use gtk widgets inside clutter too
<czajkowski> *grin* http://nokiaplane.com/
<hazrpg> for anyone interested, here's the list I made back in 2009 when I came up with this project
<hazrpg> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/myprojects/lgp/references.html
<gord> X3N, using gtk widgets inside of clutter does not an opengl gui toolkit make ;) i wouldn't call wx "good" either, like i said, clutter is pretty cool, but as a gui toolkit its not great
<X3N> mx
<hazrpg> I've heard of wx, don't think I know of clutter though
<hazrpg> btw, that wasn't the only list I made... I also had this: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/myprojects/lgp/programming-tutorials-forums.html
<hazrpg> and this: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/myprojects/lgp/development-tools-utilities-applications.html
<hazrpg> and this was the browser idea that both me and roge were going to work towards: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/myprojects/lgp/a-starting-point-perhaps.html
<X3N> I was saying mx not wx anyway
<hazrpg> oh heh lol
<hazrpg> czajkowski: hehe ^^
<screen-x> czajkowski: that joke took me so long to get!
<hazrpg> screen-x: hehe
<hazrpg> "When you see it, you'll ... bricks!"
 * czajkowski pats screen-x on the noggin 
<screen-x> http://nokiaplanf.com/
<screen-x> unfotunately g is search spam
<mungojerry> i just saw that
<mungojerry> boo
<screen-x> ooh dont go to that link
<directhex> don't mouseover f's image
<screen-x> it looks like a reasonable image, then changes when your not suspecting
<mungojerry> lol
<mungojerry> i'll trust ur judgement
<dwatkins> is it actually fraudulent or just dirty?
<screen-x> nfsw
<popey> ffs
<dwatkins> ok thanks screen-x
<MooDoo> dwatkins: dirty as i've just found out at work
<popey> please be more careful screen-x
 * dwatkins considers using an ssh tunnel
<hazrpg> lol
<screen-x> sorry all, I didnt notice till after posting :(
<MooDoo> gave my boss a start :) lol
<popey> moving on
<hazrpg> http://www.penisland.net/ <== this looks dirtier than it actually is, my tutor showed me this one years ago (sfw)
<mungojerry> i visited the page b4 u and didn't notice
<dwatkins> pen is land?
<mungojerry> island
<dwatkins> ah yes, so I see now :)
<mungojerry> i still wouldn't want it on a carrier bag
<dwatkins> haha: "Pen Island is the magical land of glorious writing utensils" - uncyclopedia
<popey> seriously
<popey> what is wrong with you people
<hazrpg> she showed it to us as an example for HCI - but she showed us the URL first before mentioning anything about it to see what the first thing would come to mind - and was showing how words chosen for a domain should be picked carefully
<jpds> popey: All that Minecraft has mined away at their brains.
<popey> clearly
<hazrpg> popey: I did say it was harmless, its just Pen Island
 * mungojerry has never played minecraft
<mungojerry> probably for the best.
<jpds> mungojerry: Likewise.
<hazrpg> minecraft is harmless ^^
 * mungojerry has a wife child and doggy to feed, and wants to stay that way
<mungojerry> i remember installing sim city 3000 and losing a week of my life
<mungojerry> wolfenstein enemy territory was more like a month , while single and unemployed
<popey> hazrpg: it's not the site content, it's the purile nature of the conversations in here at the moment, "Oh look! *snigger* it says penis!".
<dwatkins> I used to play Homeworld lot.
<dwatkins> *a lot
<mungojerry> sounds like a shop
<popey> i used to play wolfenstein every wednesday and sunday with the lugradio posse :)
<mungojerry> i liked the rail gun level
<popey> FIRE THE RAILGUN!
<mungojerry> what a fantastic game
<popey> s/THE/ZE/
<mungojerry> fire in ze hole
<dwatkins> oh my, Homeworld 2 is available for the Mac
<hazrpg> popey: ah, apologies
<dwatkins> It's been nice knowing you all... ;)
<gord> oops, forgot to go to lunch and kept working, silly me
<mungojerry> hmm 12:51
<dwatkins> silly gordface
<hazrpg> ah crap I forgot to go to sleep...
<mungojerry> looking forward to going to arsenal vs barcelona tomorrow
<hazrpg> should really do that at some point before my body decides to crash n burn
<MooDoo> pah to football.
 * mungojerry notices the price of ARM shares :-|
<hazrpg> mungojerry: that was random, you listening to the podcast?
<mungojerry> nah i noticed they are v high, i sold a bunch last week to fund my root canal. and now they've increased 25% since then
<mungojerry> sold my ARM for a tooth
<screen-x> mungojerry: going down today though
<hazrpg> ba-dum-dum-tish :P
<mungojerry> i originally purchased during the dotcom boom, believing them to be a great company. (orignally wanted to purchase when shares were 6p in acorn but didn't know how)
<davmor2> mungojerry: you still got a leg though right
<mungojerry> yeah,
<mungojerry> got a foot in the door still
<mungojerry> prices have only now returned to dotcom levels
<hazrpg> mungojerry: just out of interest how do you get your shares? Been meaning to buy shares for a while, but doesn't know how (other than the fact that you need to go through a broker)
<mungojerry> u in UK?
<directhex> stand in the city and shout "buy! buy!" a lot
<directhex> someone will hand you shares eventually
<hazrpg> mungojerry: yeah ;)
<mungojerry> my bank has an online dealing facility
<mungojerry> i just login to the website and click buy.
<hazrpg> hsbc?
<mungojerry> hfx
<mungojerry> but many are the same
<mungojerry> i got a bit addicted/greedy 10 yrs ago and learned the error of my ways
<mungojerry> i only own 2 shares now
<mungojerry> ARM and hornby :P
 * mungojerry is a bit of an airfix fan
<hazrpg> :P
<mungojerry> best way of unwinding that i know of
<hazrpg> hehe, they are fun
<hazrpg> one of my friend does warhammer painting
<penguin42> mungojerry: So now you run an ARM controlled rail road?
<mungojerry> penguin42, good idea..
 * dwatkins laughs at the macrumours forum and a message combining the indication the user has no idea what they are doing yet have jailbroken their iphone
<dwatkins> These sorts of people scare me, I bet they didn't change the default password either.
<mungojerry> at one point, wasn't there an app that allowed jailbreak by visiting a web page?
<dwatkins> mungojerry: yes
<mungojerry> maybe his mate showed him the page :P
<mungojerry> do this, it's cool. huh? ok
<dwatkins> Yes, I imagine that's quite likely.
<mungojerry> why do u need to jailbreak iphones?
<dwatkins> mungojerry: You don't need to jailbreak the iphone, but there is certain functionality that is inaccessible without doing so, such as setting a custom SMS message tone.
<mungojerry> wow
<mungojerry> i've spent my life invalidating warranties, but my android phone seems to provide all the required functionality
<mungojerry> without the need to root
<dwatkins> Yeah, as did mine when I last looked.
<BigRedS> I'm still having fun getting an unbroken android onto my Galaxy...
<dwatkins> how so, BigRedS?
<mungojerry> i find stock android a bit ugly, but HTC do a really good job with sense
<BigRedS> Samsung do a horrific one with whatever it is they've got
<dwatkins> mungojerry: I agree, I'm not too concerned with reinstalling my Desire HD with cyanogenmod since the stock install is fine
<dwatkins> oh my, BigRedS
<screen-x> bug 385632
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 385632 in fuse (Ubuntu) "Cannont umount FUSE filesystems when mounted on a NFS mounted directory in some cases" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385632
<mungojerry> the only thing is retrieving apk files that i've installed on the machine. i have an old beebplayer app installed which works over 3g
<mungojerry> but i wanted to keep it safe in case it accidentally got updated
<screen-x> permanent mounts..
 * mungojerry wonders if gwibber will get the update it needs for natty
<gord> what update?
<mungojerry> apparently v3 of gwibber
<mungojerry> to fix a lot of ugs making it unusable
<gord> gwibber 3.0 doesn't even exist yet
<mungojerry> i thought it was scheduled for 11.04 release
<davmor2> mungojerry: the version in Natty is already much better than mavericks and is 2.91.2 it will become 3.0 eventually
 * davmor2 can't help but hear the intro to summertime everytime he reads mungojerry 
<mungojerry> unfortunately it still doesn't really work - i was using the daily builds.  i hope 2.91.3 to 3 is a big step
<mungojerry> i've now switched to hotot which is blindingly quick in terms of resources
<davmor2> mungojerry: what are you expecting it to do that it doesn't?
<davmor2> mungojerry: and have you written a bug report for it
<X3N> nokiaplans.com
<mungojerry> bug 306497
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 306497 in Gwibber "gwibber uses a lot of memory" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/306497
<mungojerry> it kills resources
<mungojerry> amongst others
 * popey sighs
<gord> just attempted to use my phone as a mouse, its not my day today
<mungojerry> takes 100% on a good machine. makes mungojerry sad that new users will have their machine sucked dry by one app
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> my phone works pretty good as a mouse
<davmor2> mungojerry: that's a really old bug, not a new one.  gwibber for me is using less that Firefox or compiz
<mungojerry> really?
<mungojerry> wow
<dogmatic69> http://www.remotedroid.net/
<mungojerry> i only ditched in 2 months ago
<DJones> mungojerry: I've found gwibber in maverick to very stable & not have any problens, I've certainly not noticed any memory problems
 * mungojerry goes to try it on his natty box
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: have you tested flash video in fullscreen on that same laptop recently, just curious as the player has been updated to version 10.2
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: its pants :/
<dogmatic69> will update tonight and try
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: bah - what model was the laptop again? I have the outputs you provvided but not the CPU speed etc.
<dwatkins> thanks dogmatic69 - /msg me if you don't get a reply, please
<dogmatic69> its a packardbell something..
<dogmatic69> cant remember now
<dogmatic69> easynote
<dwatkins> haha, I like the instructions for Windows/Mac being identical: http://pastebin.com/yRFTUa2v :)
<dogmatic69> possibly easynote 8, but there is virtually no info on it (physically) and searching serial numbers etc brings nothing.
<dogmatic69> lol
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: no worries, if you can pastebin the output of the command "cat /proc/cpuinfo" that should suffice
<dogmatic69> ill be home around 8ish
<dwatkins> not sure I'll be in front of this window, but I remain online even when I'm not
<dogmatic69> damn work stuff interferes with my time.
<mungojerry> djones, davmor2 do you shut your machines down at night?
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: if you like remotedroid, you should try androidVNC
<mungojerry> or leave gwibber running
<DJones> mungojerry: Yes I do
<davmor2> I shut down
<mungojerry> my main problem was the 500mb process usage would build in 24 hrs
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: nice :)
<mungojerry> i'm running a few tests.
<dogmatic69> ive used it, bit painfull viewing 2x 23" monitors on a phone :D
<davmor2> mungojerry: if you don't then you need to report the memory leak as an issue, which is not the case with the bug you showed
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<MooDoo> afternoon
<brobostigon> afternoonings MooDoo
<DJones> mungojerry: Up until 2 weeks ago, I was running it on a machine with only 512Mb ram & didn't notice any memory problems, the machine would be running for about 12 hours max
<mungojerry> do u have facebook too, djones
<DJones> yes
<DJones> facebook/twitter/identi.ca
<mungojerry> i notice the facebook bug is marked fixed now, which may have conitrbuted to the memory leak
<mungojerry> certainly hotot is 10x faster to navigate and change views, not sure what gwibber is up to there
<DJones> mungojerry: Does hotot work with facebook/twitter & identi.ca
<mungojerry> not facebook, but neither was gwibber at the time (for the whole of 2010) due to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/614742
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 614742 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "[meta] cannot add facebook account, facebook does not update and more" [High,Fix released]
<mungojerry> here's hoping anyway. i like the UI design and would prefer to use the gwib if it doesn't hog resources
<DJones> That must have been a bit of an odd bug, I never noticed that problem
<mungojerry> gonna run overnight on a clean install then report a bug if i suffer from the memory leak again
<mungojerry> djones, it was really bad, not all facebook updates came in, then stopped for 3 days or so regularly
<mungojerry> due to fb throttling on their side. kevin vandine did a write up on it somewhere
<DJones> Very wierd, I had problems with gwibber pre-Maverick, but only with twitter accounts, fb didn't seem to have a problem
<mungojerry> does it still greyout and become unresponsive when you click refresh though? does for me
<DJones> No, its worked perfectly, i think once since maverick came out i've had a twitter problem
<hamitron> back at last! no phone line for 43 hours
<hamitron> :/
<DJones> Welcome back then
<hamitron> :)
<gord> how on earth did you survive?
<hamitron> I hardly did :/
<DJones> hamitron: Was it no phone line, or no broadband
<hamitron> both
<hamitron> :(
<DJones> Nasty
<hamitron> I had to walk 6 miles to a phone box
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> on the plus side, the sound on my phone is actually really good now
<DJones> Just like ye olden days, one phone per village, normally at the "big manor house"
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> I walked to 1 village, and that phone box had no phone in it
<hamitron> so had to go onto the nex
<hamitron> next
<hamitron> :/
<gord> ha, bzr has bzr vislualize and visualise - it doesn't even matter because everyone just uses bzr vis<tab> anyway (which now, stops on bzr visluali)
<hamitron> didn't realise they had removed some
<hamitron> kinda missed the phone ringing with sales people :))
<DJones> hamitron: At least you knew where to find a phone box, in this day & age of almost every house having a fixed line, so many people having a mobile phone, I don't even know where the nearest public phone box is to me
<hamitron> yes DJones :(
<hamitron> I couldn't get a signal at the time
<hamitron> but guess it is the "no signal" that makes me note where phones are
<hamitron> once I had got to the village 6 miles away, I do get a signal there
<hamitron> but no way i was paying to phone a 0800 number by that stage
 * dwatkins wonders if there will one day be a 'free from a mobile' number like 0800 but for mobiles
<hamitron> it would be useful, considering how many only have mobiles now
<hamitron> but there again, I know a few people who refuse to pay for a landline, then expect to have DSL internet, so steal others wifi... no respect for them
<dwatkins> that's just insane
<hamitron> yeh
<dwatkins> do they expect the world on a plate?
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> lazy bums
<dwatkins> I don't mind laziness so much, so long as the same people don't expect to be just given stuff they're not entitled to
<mungojerry> i had a windows user colleague who boasted that he didn't need antivirus on his win machine because has was careful. then i reminded him that last week he was boasting of leeching his neighbours wifi, and as such he was on an unsecure network
<dwatkins> haha, oops
<hamitron> :))
<dwatkins> Next time I get a server on my wifi I'm going to implement the upside-down-ternet :D
<hamitron> my sister complains I put her on a different network to the business comps here, as she "knows" how to protect herself
<hamitron> :/
<dwatkins> a different network?
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> router with 3 network interfaces
<dwatkins> can she not switch to the same network as the others if necessary?
<hamitron> erm, I could I suppose
<mungojerry> hamitron, does that make u big brother then :P
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> :)
<dwatkins> Just wondering what possible solutions there are.
<gord> popey, <Sarvatt> new natty nvidia drivers in ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-updates
<mungojerry> just tell her you are protecting her from the business types
 * dwatkins is little brother, but still the sysadmin of the family
<mungojerry> i've seen some real grot on those machines
<hamitron> well, I've found a lot of security solutions don't work well with some of the accounting software
<hamitron> also, the security I have on the secure network blocks facebook and stuff
<DJones> hamitron: Thats nothing to do with accounting software, they just don't work well
<dwatkins> I sold a PC for someone once that I got a call back about with 2 hours, they'd riddled it with malware and it had slowed to a crawl.
<hamitron> it was blocking the software that pays peoples wages!
<mungojerry> dwatkins, PC world sell malware too
<dwatkins> mungojerry: they do?
<mungojerry> they used to
<hamitron> I reckon putting idiots on a seperate network and ensuring people get paid on time is better than waiting for problems
<mungojerry> vista i think it was called
<mungojerry> :P
 * dwatkins notes the example on Google Reader shows a document from the Official Google Blog entitles: Pirates vs Ninjas - who would win?
<hamitron> ninjas!
<dwatkins> mungojerry: Vista is useable when it has the servicepack installed
<mungojerry> which SP
<mungojerry> the win7 sp?
<dwatkins> mungojerry: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bb738089
<hamitron> I don't consider win7 that much better tbh :/
<dwatkins> I use windows 7 at work, it's fine.
<hamitron> "fine"
<hamitron> ;/
<dwatkins> I'd prefer a UNIX, but I don't have a lot of choice yet.
<mungojerry> dwatkins, on a clean vista sp1, this laptop in front of me is shocking (and others i've seen)
<hamitron> not exactly brilliant... fine
<davmor2> dwatkins: you seem to of added too many words to that sentence,  - when it has the servicepack installed, and it becomes far more honest ;)
<dwatkins> My only main gripe with Win7 is that when the machine is sleeped it doesn't automatically hibernate when the battery gets low like my Mac does. Most Linuxes I've used can barely cope with hibernation, let alone the rest :-/
<mungojerry> windows indexer kills machine, and thrashes disk constantly. above that i routinely experience sporadic bugs requiring reboot
<dwatkins> mungojerry: you can turn that off
<mungojerry> i got handed the machine because wireless, ethernet and usb had stopped working. (worked on livecd though)
<dwatkins> I think they disabled it with a servicepack, in fact
<hamitron> is there a Win7 (for legacy PC)?
<directhex> not really
<dwatkins> Win7 works fine on older hardware.
<mungojerry> i only have to use windows very occasionally and i always end up tearing my hair out because of the stress
<hamitron> older hardware?
<hamitron> ;/
<directhex> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/get/system-requirements.aspx
 * mungojerry also discovered the free win7 upgrade for the poor vista suckers expired
<mungojerry> by "free" they mean Â£30
<hamitron> 1Gb ram is not really old is it? :/
<dwatkins> you can't really expect them to support running the OS on a 486 with 32 MB of RAM, though.
<hamitron> 256Mb would be nice
<hamitron> 128Mb would be nicer
<hamitron> tbh, I wouldn't mind if I felt I got something worthwhile for the memory use
<mungojerry> we're talking debian here :P
 * MooDoo uses technet so has a couple of free licenses....which means nothing really
 * mungojerry runs debian ARM on his linksys slug
 * hamitron wants a slug
<hamitron> or a fat one
<hamitron> :)
<popey> heh, I just bought 8GB for my laptop and 8GB for the kitchen iMac :D
<hamitron> I'm starting to find 2Gb in my main rig, not really enough
<dwatkins> I need 8 GB in my laptop due to running virtual machines.
<hamitron> can get by with 2Gb only just, but organising stuff properly
<hamitron> I've actually removed vmware
<hamitron> :)
 * mungojerry uses slug for backups
<mungojerry> after right-clocking it
<andylockran> I've been using ubuntu with no X all week
<andylockran> it's quite enjoyable.
<hamitron> I've actually found a NAS device fine as a server
<hamitron> saving power
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> then old server just turn on for backups
<andylockran> all I'd like to do is resize the resolution on the framebuffer - reckon it'll just be vga= option in the boot config
<mungojerry> what's the best indexing app on ubuntu? tracker didnt' used to work v nicely a yaer or so ago.
<andylockran> mungojerry: what you intending on using it for ?
<dwatkins> andylockran: yeah, that's the one, I've played with it in the past, purely with trial-and-error
<mungojerry> i ended up giving up..but i really need one. pref with docky/zeitgeist support
<mungojerry> andylockran, search all files in home dir containing the word mathematica
<andylockran> cat * | grep mathematica
<andylockran> yeah, not a nice solution
<mungojerry> yeah..on a oneoff basis thats what i do...but i have large home dir
<jpds> andylockran: Certainly, you should of just done: grep mathematica *
<mungojerry> actually grep -R mathematica *
<mungojerry> then if u think it might have been a tomboy note or email instead, you are screwed
<mungojerry> still can't find the doc :P
<mungojerry> that's because grep X in ods file doesn't give u anything :(
<BigRedS> your mail isn't plain text? what do you do with your mail?
<mungojerry> the actual spreadsheet in a .ods file...try grepping for terms found in a sheet - u won't find them
<mungojerry> gonna try tracker since the options don't seem to be great (beagle is dead)
<popey> thanks gord!
<s-fox> Afternoon all
<MooDoo> s-fox: welcome back :) we missed you ;)
<s-fox> Haha thanks MooDoo ,  I was still here... just went quiet ;)
<MooDoo> s-fox: :)
 * s-fox hands MooDoo some tea
<MooDoo> s-fox: lovely thanks :)  english breakfast?
<s-fox> Sorry no, I do not drink english tea MooDoo
<MooDoo> s-fox: what kind out of interest?
<s-fox> MooDoo,  Mariage FrÃ¨res
<MooDoo> s-fox: bless you ;)
<s-fox> Laugh out loud. MooDoo  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariage_Fr%C3%A8res
<MooDoo> s-fox: are you into tea?
<s-fox> I like tea, if that is the same thing?
<MooDoo> s-fox: yes that's what i meant :P
 * mungojerry just received an important email but it was for someone else :S feel bad when that happens. the intended recipient will never get it
<s-fox> MooDoo,  I like tea
<screen-x> mungojerry: could reply indicating the error
<s-fox> +1 screen-x
<andylockran> gord/popey will a dist-upgrade pull in the nvidia drivers if that repo is added, or do they need to be specified as a package name?
<mungojerry> screen-x true but i receive quite a lot..i think google labs has a special gmail plugin to click a canned response easily
 * mungojerry shoul dhave considered the implications of choosing his gmail address
<MooDoo> tea ftw!
<popey> andylockran: no, you need to install nvidia-current
<MooDoo> join #debian-uk
<MooDoo> oops :)
<jpds> MooDoo: Wrong IRC server.
<MooDoo> jpds: just being nosey to be honest :D
<davmor2> jpds: No just needs to put a / in front
 * jpds watches MooDoo hone in on czajkowski's channels.
<andylockran> popey: ta
 * czajkowski peers at MooDoo 
<MooDoo> jpds: no i'm keeping well away from czajkowski thank you very much :)
<gord> andylockran, don't upgrade from that ppa, you get new x stuff there, just pick the package you want
<gord> popey, andylockran horses need to be held on the nvidia xserver - some people saying it doesn't work (haven't tested myself yet because i actually like getting things done)
<popey> what are you using then?
<popey> at the moment i cant use unity at all
<gord> i never upgraded my xorg :) learnt about them upgrading the xserver at the platform sprint so i stopped accepting xserver updates pretty much all together
<gord> i got burnt by this stuff last cycle, didn't want it again
<mungojerry> popey did you put natty on your main desktop?
<popey> yes
<mungojerry> wow
<popey> i have more than one computer though
<popey> so its not a disaster, just annoying that I've not been able to test unity at all for 2 weeks or so
<gord> yeah it *really* sucks, we have lost a lot  of testers
<mungojerry> ubuntu servers must be filling up with crash reports, i don't know whether i should file them all
<popey> seems it might have been wise to publicise that this was going to happen
<popey> i know people said that x was going to update
<popey> but i dont recall a single mail/announcement saying nvidia wouldn't work with it
<daubers> Still seems to work on my nvidia laptop..... should it not?
<mungojerry> i'm on intel but am receiving weird screen corruption
<mungojerry> when using gnome-terminal
<mungojerry> it's strange
<gord> yup, honestly as long as the nvidia driver wasn't working they should of not allowed xorg to upgrade for those that have nvidia-current installed or something
<daubers> if xorgDriver == "nv": do_Burn_In_Hell(); ?
<popey> daubers: it wont if you have updated xorg
<daubers> I've been upgrading using aptitude, does that stop that specific bit of breakage?
<popey> what version of xorg do you have installed
<daubers> 1:7.6~3ubuntu4
<daubers> according to aptitude anyway
 * mungojerry longs for the day of smooth rollbacks
<popey> daubers: what version of nvidia-current do you have installed?
<daubers> 260.19.29-0ubuntu1
<daubers> There is a copy of xorg in the update queue, but aptitude safe-upgrade doesn't seem to bother installing it. It just sits there
<popey> heh
<mungojerry> daubers, you must have sentient-apt installed :P
<Azelphur> haha, giffgaffs voicemail service :D
<Azelphur> you enter your pin code and the guy says "Champion!"
<hamitron> I still not got mine activated
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'm fully switched to them
<daubers> Been burned by running partial updates before, always fallen back on aptitude while on an alpha
<hamitron> Azelphur: no contract?
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'm just doing the Â£10 goodybag every month
<hamitron> cool
<Azelphur> I switched my mum to them too
<hamitron> i just assumed you had a contract to get a cheaper phone
<AlanBell> o/
<Azelphur> nah, I buy all my phones outright, it usually works out cheaper in the long run and gives me the freedom to choose which provider I want
<hamitron> yeh
<mungojerry> azelphur, my contract is Â£15pm
<hamitron> it works out cheaper for me, but that is only because I never use it
<Azelphur> hamitron: to get a DZ on contract is like Â£30/mo for 24 months, or Â£720. My DZ cost me Â£315, + 24 x Â£10 for the mobile service comes to Â£555, so way cheaper :)
<hamitron> if I actually used "free" mins, wouldn't be so bad
<gord> when buying a phone, the "phone" part comes secondary to what i want ;)
<mungojerry> over the span of the 24 months, it will cost me the same as buying outright
<Azelphur> hehe
<gord> its like if i got a computer that was tied to an isp, would be insane
<Azelphur> gord: exactly
<penguin42> gord: I put in bug 636418 saying jockey and updates should interlock for exactly that
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 636418 in jockey (Ubuntu) "update should clean up/warn about jockey" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636418
<hamitron> I was tempted with a free ps3 + phone
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> but resisted so far
<AlanBell> s-fox: I will remove your pin
<mungojerry> hamitron, you don't use 3g data then?
<gord> i think i want that playstation phone... we shall see
<s-fox> AlanBell,  Can we just move it?
<hamitron> mungojerry: I've only topped up Â£35 in 13 years
<s-fox> If I give you correct lat and long ?
<mungojerry> i don't use my 300 mins and texts but i use 3g a lot..
<hamitron> I use internet on my phone, but use my DSL over bluetooth
<daubers> Current annyoying Unity niggle - I can't actually scroll to the bottom of the "Applications" window majigger
<Azelphur> me too
<hamitron> if I got a new phone, would use wifi
<popey> daubers: grab hold of it and drag it up?
<popey> or are we not talking about the docky thing on the left?
<hamitron> I don't even get a good enough signal to make a voice call on my phone at home, so doubt the internet would be worth it
<daubers> Not the docky thing, the window that pops up with all the applications in that's no longer nautilus
<popey> ah, not seen that yet :(
<mungojerry> daubers, the overlay thing ? works VERY slowly
<daubers> I'd be really pleased with it, if a little window didn't pop up every few minutes telling me "something" had crashed but doesn't tell me what.
<mungojerry> but i could scroll
<hamitron> is this 11.04?
<mungojerry> yep
<daubers> The dock running away when I push a window near it still amuses me greatly though :)
<mungojerry> took me a while to discover that u have to move the mouse to the top left to get the dock back...thats horrible
<hamitron> "come get me on the screen 2 screens to your left?" ;/
<mungojerry> intuitively you expect moving mouse to the left side would bring it
<gord> daubers, there is a bug in nux that makes scrolling hugely expensive, don't worry, it'll get fixed as soon as i get round to looking at a few merge requests (should be this week)
<mungojerry> they have an unbelievable amount of functionality and bugs to fix
<daubers> gord: \o/
<ball> What's a nux?
<gord> and yeah i hate apport now "Something has crashed, wanna report it?! it might of been days ago but hey, i'm just gonna tell you now"
<gord> nux is the opengl toolkit we use in unity
<ball> gord: Thanks
<daubers> I'm going to have to bake masses of cake for oggcamp this year
<screen-x> cake :)
 * BigRedS is more determined to get to oggcamp this year
<popey> mmm oggcamp
<daubers> Hopefully it'll be within commuting distance this year
<bigcalm> popey: what month are we possibly looking at?
 * BigRedS suggests London. Again.
<screen-x> bigcalm: are you going to block out the whole month?
<bigcalm> screen-x: possibly, until a date is confirmed
 * daubers bets it'll be during the week he's on a boat in norfolk
<popey> heh
<popey> dunno yet
 * popey pokes czajkowski 
<screen-x> daubers: messing about in boats is awesome, could even involve cake :)
<daubers> screen-x: That it could!
<bigcalm> Damn it
<bigcalm> I want cake now
<bigcalm> Damn this diet
 * czajkowski prods popey 
<bigcalm> Maybe a cuppa tea will cheer me up
<gord> oh i'm sure i can find out what day its on, just need to get my calendar to find the next time i'm away with work, its normally then ;)
<daubers> bigcalm: Milk and 2 please
<DJones> bigcalm: Thats not the pre-wedding diet already is it?
<daubers> bigcalm: As a suggestion, Thorpe Park is good fun as a tag do destination
<bigcalm> DJones: I've been losing weight for a couple of months now
<daubers> s/tag/stag
 * bigcalm shakes his head in amusement
<daubers> bigcalm: "WFM :)
<daubers> Grr
<daubers> !wfm
<lubotu3> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
 * screen-x passes bigcalm a walnut
<bigcalm> ?
 * bigcalm breaks it with a sledgehammer
<screen-x> only food I had accessible
<bigcalm> Ah, most kind :)
<bigcalm> There's a banana infront of me, but I've already had one today
<directhex> http://gburt.blogspot.com/2011/02/banshee-supporting-gnome-on-ubuntu.html
<czajkowski> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vWm47yPLGc
<bigcalm> czajkowski: that's silly :)
<hamitron> directhex: doesn't that reflect badly on Canonical?
<directhex> hamitron, less badly than if they patched the affiliate code
<hamitron> suppose, so the amazon store will be disabled?
<AlanBell> hazrpg: the election details are in Daviey's email to the list, it uses CIVS which is a very clever online vote system
<AlanBell> s-fox: no, the coordinates are not exposed and if they were I would have to edit the lat and long as numbers
<AlanBell> I can edit descriptions, but not positions easily
<s-fox> Okay, no worries. :)
<s-fox> Thanks anyway
 * Laney tried to raise the Amazon issue at UDS
<jpds> Laney: Deforestation?
<Laney> only Canonical trees allowed here
<hamitron> sounds like selling tickets to a gig for charity, and the venue claiming most of the money ;)
<directhex> hamitron, i guess the extension is shipping but off by default
<hamitron> time for tea, o/
 * DJones wonders whether he should have said to the person kneeling down in front of the file server changing backup tapes that a dog had just wandered into the office and was stood staring at them
<DJones> ...Before they turned round to see the dogs face about 12inches from their own & screamed
<jpds> DJones: In the server room, noone can here you scream.
<jpds> hear*
<DJones> Our server is in the kitchen
<DJones> You probably don't let dogs into the server room either
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<BigRedS> g'morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> helo BigRedS
<daubers> jpds: In the server room, no-one can hear _anything_
<jpds> daubers: Actually, you can hear the fans.
<daubers> UNLESS YOU SHOUT REALLY LOUDLY TO GET OVER THE GENERAL WHITE NOISE FRMO THE SERVERS AND THE BEEPING OF THE FAILING RAIDS
<SuperMatt> ah, the beeping of the failing raids
<SuperMatt> possibly one of the most common noises here...
<daubers> SuperMatt: Most common noise in any server room I'm working in
<hamitron> !version
<lubotu3> To find out what version of Ubuntu you have, type Â« lsb_release -a Â» in a !shell - To know the available version of a package, Â« apt-cache policy <package> Â»
<ujjain> can somebody make this a proper english sentence?
<ujjain> Â¨she has an aunt who can house her inÂ¨
<AlanBell> ujjain: she has an aunt who can put her up
<AlanBell> which doesn't make much sense, but it means what you want it to
<ujjain> she has an aunt who can provide her housing < wrong too? :p
<ujjain> provide her space
<OmNomSequitur> AlanBell, my old friend.
<Azelphur> The Software Centre's "What's New" section confuses me. Doesn't Ubuntu only add new packages once every 6 months?
<ujjain> new release of Ubuntu is once a 6 months.
 * brobostigon is thinking about getting rid of debian sid and using ubuntu natty, but doesnt have the space to dual boot both, :(
<ujjain> packages are updated and added frequently.
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> I thought it was only security updates n stuff that gets in the repositories :s
<Azelphur> what's the deal with the package deadlines then?
<brobostigon> Azelphur: wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyRealeaseScehdule
<brobostigon> Schedule*
<brobostigon> Release*
<brobostigon> wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<ujjain> there seem to be new updates every week?
<brobostigon> i dont think there are any major package updates between releases, expect for security updates, and only major package updates,when they have security fixes, but i maybe wrong.ot thats only for LTS's.
<brobostigon> and packages are stabilised during the development cycle.
<david-uwe> can someone please tell me a good social networking feed program for ubuntu
<david-uwe> so i can view feeds from twitter, facebook etc. in one news screen
<brobostigon> david-uwe: gwibbr works fairly well here.
<brobostigon> gwibber*
<david-uwe> oh i ignored it thinking it was just an xamp chat client
<brobostigon> howeevr, iwould use the gwibber ppa, as its newer.
<david-uwe> ok, thank you
<brobostigon> gwibber doesnt do xmpp/jabber.
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<david-uwe> also in the latest ubuntu, 64bit the autheticate box doesnt disappear after entering correct password
<david-uwe> have to close it via the button, not sure if its a flaw, worth pointing out though
<brobostigon> david-uwe: i do believe that has been corrected in the gwibber ppa, the version in the main ubuntu repos, is somewhat behind.
<brobostigon> !info gwibber
<david-uwe> cool, thanks
<lubotu3> gwibber (source: gwibber): Open source social networking client for GNOME. In component main, is optional. Version 2.32.2-0ubuntu2 (maverick), package size 317 kB, installed size 1980 kB
<brobostigon> its is behind, i have 2.91.2 here.
<brobostigon> david-uwe: however you do have to keep in mind, there are some ubuntu specific changes to the ubuntu repo version, specificlly  for ubuntu. which the ppa version, might break.
<david-uwe> i see
<brobostigon> david-uwe: you can try it out, and always roll back easily if needed.
<david-uwe> yep :)
<david-uwe> whens the next big version update for ubuntu?
<brobostigon> 11.04
<brobostigon> wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<david-uwe> thanks again
<brobostigon> you're welcome.
 * brobostigon tried latest natty daily-live from live usb earlier, and was curiously impressed.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] HowTo: Gtk.Scrollbars and Floating Widgets - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/howto-gtk-scrollbars-and-floating-widgets/
<ndf> ello
<ndf> for some reason my media keys aren't working now =/
<ndf> i have an acer and i hear the acpi is a bit iffy
<ndf> oh its ok
<ndf> i got dis =D
<AlanBell> loadsa pins \o/ http://ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/
 * MartijnV1S adds a pin
 * AlanBell zooms out
<shauno> aw, the pins aren't clickable .. I was really curious who's out in orkney
<MartijnV1S> shauno: they are here
<DJones> shauno you can right click on them to find the name
<MartijnV1S> Right? Left-click for me
<DJones> could be left, can't remember which
<hazrpg> AlanBell: you mean the mailing list?
<hazrpg> AlanBell: should have thought we had a mailing list
<hazrpg> how many people actually use the mailing list?
<DJones> +1
<AlanBell> hazrpg: lots more than IRC
<hazrpg> AlanBell: wow
<AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-February/028779.html
<penguin42> hmph
<popey> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-MfrT0wvMg
<AlanBell> popey: how many mailing list subscribers are there for the -uk list?
<neuro> seven
<czajkowski> Ubuntu UK mailing list is rather active compared to many others
<dwatkins> is it also visible online, czajkowski?
<czajkowski> archives yes
 * dwatkins is a curious monkey
<AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/
<czajkowski> odd odd ball
<dwatkins> o.O
<AlanChicken> clucking netsplits
<AlanBell> thats better
<brobostigon> :)
<UndiFineD> tomorrow taco's ?
<popey> tempted to hold an Ubuntu Global Jam session at my house
<AlanBell> will there be cake?
<ging> maybe people will find out if popey towers is actually a tower
<popey> AlanBell: if you bring it
<popey> thing is it's 3rd April
<popey> my birthday is 4th April
<popey> :D
<dogmatic69> beats the 1st :)
<ging> AlanBell: take cake flour and a few other things and in 3 minutes you can have cake
 * AlanBell wonders if there are enough candles in the drawer
<AlanBell> it is also mothers day
<AlanBell> 39 candles is it?
<popey> indeed
<AlanBell> again
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> popey: so can we invaed yours instead of my office so :)
<AlanBell> I have 41 candles in the tin
<czajkowski> wait popey is going to be 41
<czajkowski> :o
<bigcalm> Poor bugger
<ging> seriously?
<popey> wut
<popey> no
<popey> I was born in 1972
<czajkowski> I was wondering you don't look a day over 21 !
 * czajkowski is hoping for cake so is being extra nice 
<penguin42> popey: It was a popular year
<brobostigon> wow, popey is tenyears older than me,
<dutchie> 20 older than me :)
<czajkowski> dutchie: that may result in you not getting cake!
<popey> :)
<popey> dutchie always gets cake
<dutchie> \o/
<penguin42> popey: If you want to feel young, go to a computer conservation society meeting like I did this evening; someone came up to me and congratulated me as being someone under 50
<bigcalm> popey: as old as Hayley then
<dutchie> speaking of old computer people, i saw knuth talk today
<AlanBell> czajkowski: 41 is the number of candles I have available
<AlanBell> so popey can have 2 more birthdays if he wants, then I stop bringing cake
<penguin42> dutchie: I saw him last week - was he any more coherent at your talk?
<popey> :)
<dutchie> penguin42: well, he was a bit coherent
<dutchie> it was pretty interesting and made more sense than the talk i just got back from
<mgdm> AlanBell: surely you'll only have 2 after this one?
<daubers> AlanBell: OR! We could do what my uncle did to my cousin
<daubers> i.e. a ballon covered in whipped cream as a cake
<daubers> makes a fantastic mess when it's "cut"
 * daubers slaps the stupid keyboard layout issue in natty
<Baikonur> natty dread <3
<penguin42> dutchie: It was kind of interesting, although he managed to answer everyones question with an answer to a different question
<dutchie> penguin42: well for us he waffled on for too long for there to be time for questions
<dutchie> was he doing knight's tours at yours too?
<penguin42> no
<penguin42> dutchie: He didn't waffle long to us, he actually had more questions
<Myrtti> wohey, preordered the new Radiohead album
<oly> anyone know any programs that can sniff serial communication
<czajkowski> Myrtti: yay
<oly> got an application i want to write to control a device, but need to figure out how to communicate with it
<oly> so need something that can show me whats being sent and recieved over usb serial cable
<mgdm> Myrtti: \o/
<bigcalm> Anybody here use MS Dynamics and send data to it from a MySQL db and PHP?
<penguin42> oly: Do you mean USB or do you mean USB-serial adapter?
<mgdm> oly: there are things I know of in Windows that do that
<penguin42> sorry, pidgin crashed
<mgdm> I've not needed to use them myself because I worked out the device in question :)
<penguin42> oly: Wireshark on Linux can watch USB
<mgdm> penguin42: ooh, didn' tknow that
<alexh>  /part
<oly> i think its rs232 cable, it shows up on /dev/ttyusb0
<oly> i looked in wireshark it confused me
<oly> showed two usb devices could not find a way to tell which device was mine
<oly> as it did not say where they where connected
<penguin42> oh, if it's just usb-serial then minicom is a serial terminal that can work with that; spying on i9t while something else runs is trickier
<oly> but that could be my lack of knowledge of wireshark
<oly> does minicom actually monitor though as some of the apps i have tried seem to block off the port so the app can not use it
<penguin42> no, it doesn't monitor - it acts as a serial terminal
<oly> i need something that montiors i think, so i can see whatr the program sends and what the device sends back in responce
<penguin42> you might be able to do that with wireshark watching the messages going to the usb-serial adapter, not sure if it'll pick it apart for you
<oly> yeah it seems like wireshark may do what i want, its just it does not seem to let you select it by device
<DeathSling> Hi all   :)       I got a queston....
<penguin42> ask the question
<DeathSling> two identical ubuntu 10.10 servers only one doesn't ask for confirmation during apt-get / aptitude       what have I done?
<penguin42> command line?
<penguin42> which confirmation?
<DeathSling> I've gone all out nerdy and only using command line so I know I havn't clicked somthing by accident
<DeathSling> ~$ sudo apt-get install *****       or as just now     ~$ sudo aptitude remove *****
<popey> uh
<brobostigon> and it asks you for you password.
<popey> if all you're installing is one single package with no deps, there will be no prompt
<DeathSling> yes, done the password bit, but as it starts it then asks for confimation   [y/n]
<popey> e.g. sudo apt-get install cowsay
<ali1234> there is the certificate check too
<popey> that doesn't prompt
<penguin42> yeh I get it sometimes asking for a confirmation
<ali1234> although i haven't seen that for a while
<DeathSling> I'm doing the same install (virtual hosts) so I should be getting the same
<penguin42> DeathSling: I get the feeling there is some sort of threshold if it has to download a lot or do something it feels you mgiht not want that it does it
<popey> penguin42: threshold is one package
<AlanBell> it is all about dependencies
<popey> yup
<maco2> AlanBell++
<AlanBell> if there is one it asks
<maco2> if its > 1 package but they're all ones you listed, it shouldnt prompt then either
<AlanBell> yup
<popey> welcome to 22:54:19
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> ?
<DeathSling> yup it for dependacy and I'm used to that but one of them isn't doing it which is what i don't nderstand
<AlanBell> you asked me to install foo, but that won't work unless I install bar, are you cool about me going ahead and installing bar as well?
<ali1234> pastebin the output
<AlanBell> DeathSling: one server already has bar
<DeathSling> bar?
<AlanBell> the dependency
<AlanBell> of foo
<DeathSling> server and liquids.... are you mad man    ;)
<AlanBell> you have to ask?
<DeathSling> i've kept them the same all the way through, well obviously not
<DeathSling> ahh... foo bar  .... i'm slow tonight....
<popey> foo, bar, baz
<DeathSling> all i heard was a plane going over my head
<DeathSling> ;)
<DeathSling> thinking about it i did use aptitude briefly on the second machine but wouldn't cause it would it?
<AlanBell> so if you do "sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop" you are saying it would just go ahead and do it without additional prompts on one server?
<DeathSling> yep
<virusuy> Oli``: congratz dude for winning the askubuntu.com' elecction
<virusuy> greetins from Uruguay
<Oli``> virusuy: thanks
<brobostigon> nos da everyone.
<virusuy> Oli``: actually, you was my firts choice.. i like the way that you wrote your posts
<virusuy> s/firts/first/
<Laney> i quite like answering askubuntu questions
<david-uwe> how do i exit a man page in terminal in ubuntu? ctrl c, ctrl q and esc dont work
<Laney> q
<moreati> david-uwe: just q works here
<david-uwe> ctrl z eorked
<david-uwe> oh cool, thanks :)
<Laney> c-z will background it, use 'fg' to get it back
<david-uwe> oh nice, thanks
<Laney> (I bet it said 'â¦suspendedâ¦')
<david-uwe> nothing came up
<david-uwe> i assumed it was closed
<david-uwe> so how come in newer versions pidgin has been replaced with evolution
<BigRedS> empathy, surely?
<david-uwe> empathy even
<david-uwe> sorry
<david-uwe> :)
<BigRedS> empathy uses telepathy, which is a gnomish component. It's way more extensible than pidgin
<BigRedS> but, as yet, seriously lacking in features comparitively
<nucc1> erm, anyone know how i can move the gnome-panel in ubuntu 10.10?
<Laney> it was judged to have a better future I guess
<david-uwe> indeedy
<Laney> nucc1: alt+drag
<nucc1> Laney, thank you for that :)
<Laney> pleasure
<nucc1> quite an embarassing thing not to know how to do :p
<david-uwe> best notepad IDE availablef or ubuntu?
<Laney> it's a bit of an obscure one
<david-uwe> im talking more than gedit :P
<BigRedS> david-uwe: notepad IDE?
<Laney> geany?
<david-uwe> notepad with line colouring
<david-uwe> thanks
<nucc1> i'd hand it to gedit.
<nucc1> especially with the plugins enabled
<david-uwe> gotcha
<moreati> david-uwe: kate gets a lot of love from KDE users
<nucc1> it's one of the few gnome apps that ships with in-sane defaults.
<BigRedS> oh. Gvim? Gedit seems reasonable enough to me
<david-uwe> alrighty :)
<Laney> http://www.geany.org/Documentation/Screenshots
<BigRedS> I keep trying to get into an IDE
<nucc1> BigRedS, IDE in what sense?
<BigRedS> eclipse, netbeans etc. Not HDD interfaces :)
<nucc1> lol
<david-uwe> you can even do php in netbeans now :)
<BigRedS> I just get bored of ':w' related syntax errors and go back to vim...
<nucc1> i don't know why, but i can't get my head around netbeans.
<david-uwe> its pretty good, i use it for java
<nucc1> or eclipse. i find myself always going right back to gedit, even for java
<david-uwe> :P
<directhex> eclipse is diabolical though
<nucc1> the program is too big, slow, and crowded. it confuses me
<moreati> BigRedS: they really work best if you start a project from scratch within their infrastructure. I find much of an IDE becomese clunky if you try to use it on a project with an existing build infrastructure
<directhex> i've only really enjoyed two IDEs: Delphi, and MonoDevelop
<BigRedS> moreati: yeah. I've heard that. Problem is that I rarely program anything that could be described as a 'project'
<david-uwe> i still compile java from terminal, but netbeans is good at picking up silly errors
<nucc1> monodevelop looks nice, except i don't do C#
<BigRedS> occasionally scripts become, er, scripts and modules, but it's quite rare there's more than a couple of files, especially from the start
<moreati> The VB Visual Studio was a joy to use, back in the day
<BigRedS> I did get into Netbeans when I did my Java dabbling
<directhex> nucc1, it can do java, but i don't remember if that's real java or ikvm only
<nucc1> hmmm, i have to check it out. i think anjuta started java support as well
<nucc1> seems not to have an option of doing it without autotools
<david-uwe> right how on earth can i shrink xchat-gnome to the start bar
<nucc1> directhex, i can only see C++ and VB in monodevelop
<directhex> nucc1, install the java addin then
<nucc1> david-uwe, i've no idea how to interpret your question
<moreati> david-uwe: Since Start Bar is an MS Windows thing it would be tricky. Do you mean the notification area, i.e. the icons next to the clock?
<david-uwe> its still, technically, a start bar?
<david-uwe> that'll be my argument in court
<david-uwe> but ya i sure do mean the notification area :)
<david-uwe> should prolly just install standard xchat
<BigRedS> surely the Windows analogue to the notification area is the system tray?
<directhex> BigRedS, correct
<david-uwe> thats the one, i love you
<david-uwe> however im assuming now that xchat gnome cant shrink to there, so thats annoying
<david-uwe> for some reason i enjoy how plain and ugly it is
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-16
<hazrpg> popey: ooo, its your birthday soon?
<hazrpg> still can't believe #cumbria_lug is dead
<_SPT_> Any one know of any Ubuntu groups/meetings in the staffordshire area?
<hazrpg> _SPT_: http://www.staffslug.org.uk/ <==
<hazrpg> _SPT_: just google around for the, type in "Staffordshire LUG" and see what you get
<hazrpg> LUG = Linux User Group
<_SPT_> thanks
<hazrpg> _SPT_: they got a channel here on freenode too #staffslug
<hazrpg> _SPT_: seems active too, currently 60 people in there
<_SPT_> just going to popin now
<hazrpg> ah wait, 19 sorry
<hazrpg> but still :)
<hazrpg> would it be mean to make my own Cumbria LUG?
<hazrpg> or just more beneficial to just get people to join Cumbria LUG?
<penguin42> hazrpg: We have someone from Barrow who comes to ManLUG
<hazrpg> penguin42: yeah I think its because the Cumbrian LUG is pretty much dead
<hazrpg> they've ditched their website for a wiki, and the last proper email on the mailing list archive is months/years ago, there have been one last month and one in november... but mainly job adverts
<hazrpg> kinds sucks
<popey> hazrpg: yeah, april
<penguin42> heck, you do look forward to them don't you
<hazrpg> ?
<hazrpg> popey: awesome :)
<penguin42> April is ages away
<shauno> hazrpg: when I was there, it was completely fragmented.  there was a furness lug, and a westmorland lug ..
<shauno> it was all pretty much 3 guys in a pub unless you got on the train
<penguin42> how big is westmorland exactly?
<penguin42> (says he never having heard of it)
<shauno> I'm really not sure.  I think it's just kendal & associated villages
<shauno> kinda like furness, it's just enough tiny towns / villages pooled together enough to have their own newspaper
<hazrpg> heh
 * penguin42 knows of kendal, just not the westmorland bigger chunk
<hazrpg>  /pool \o/
<shauno> cumbria's strange because it's got a huge gap with nil population in the middle
<shauno> so you've got barrow, whitehaven/workingston, carlisle and kendal in each corner
<shauno> and they act like completely separate places because they've got this wall between them
<shauno> so a 'cumbria lug' just doesn't end up working
<shauno> (unless everyone wants to drive an hour to meet at a farm in the middle)
<shauno> from barrow it is easier (and probably quicker) to get on a train to manchester than carlisle.  01228 & 9 are split by a national park
<shauno> I just remember that when I was in barrow, the local lug were in a pub in the middle of nowhere.  decidedly not public-transport friendly
<penguin42> I seem to remember getting a train to somewhere up in the lakes and realising that the place I actually fancied going was on the opposite side of it, of which there was a bus every one or two hours - in the summer only, if you're lucky
<dutchie> oops
<dutchie> just accidentally middle clicked in mutt, resulting in pasting of colossal amount of text
<dutchie> which marked all of my emails as read
<shauno> heh, yeah a lot of the lakes is like that
<shauno> either tourist-season services, or services that are timed to get people to sellafield & back, so your transportation plans revolve around their shift patterns
<hazrpg> indeed
<shauno> it's kinda cute when you make it work.  there's a nice pub that brew their own, a short walk from the end of the eskdale railway
<shauno> but for anything you'd want to do on a regular basis; either a car, or just get on the train to a real populace
<hazrpg> is there an easy way to backup my PGP/GPG keys I'm about to use for launchpad?
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: have you ever used pgp/gnupg before?
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: (any questions about gpg, ask me :))
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: Nope!
<hazrpg> First time
<hazrpg> managed to get myself linked up on launchpad (considering I've been registered with launchpad since 2006)
<hazrpg> just want to back those GPG/PGP files up just in-case (I do re-installs regularly when I mess something up)
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: backing up ~/.gnupg should be sufficient then
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: make sure you back it up to a secure location (USB stick in a safe?)
<hazrpg> wait, you saying if I back that folder up and restore it... it'll just popup?
<MartijnVdS> it should, yes
<MartijnVdS> don't forget the passphrase though :)
<hazrpg> surely that can't be safe - thought the whole point was that you had to enter your passphrase in to export/import
<hazrpg> ah
<hazrpg> heh :P
<hazrpg> was going to say :P
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: the secret key in ~/.gnupg/secring.gpg is encrypted with a symmetrical cypther
<MartijnVdS> cypher
<MartijnVdS> and the key for that cypher is (derived from) your passphrase
<hazrpg> winner :)
<hazrpg> so say I backed that up, and then restored that folder back
<hazrpg> now what?
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: gpg --list-keys
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: gpg --list-secret-keys
<hazrpg> would those ask for all the keys?
<hazrpg> er
<hazrpg> I mean passphrases?
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: no, those should list all collected public keys, and all private keys you have
<hazrpg> but say I wanted to use one, it would ask then right?
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: doing modifications on the key (gpg --edit-key yourkeyid + save) should ask for a passphrase
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: you can check by encrypting a small file to yourself
<hazrpg> woah, I can use the GPG/PGP to encrypt files :O
 * hazrpg liking this even more already
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: (gpg -a -se -r your_keyid testfile)
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: I have a vim plugin that allows me to say: vim file.gpg, and it'll transparently decrypt on open, and re-encrypt on save
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: I use that for my password list :)
<hazrpg> nice
<hazrpg> I use KeyPass for that
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: install vim-addon-manager and vim-scripts, then: vim-addons install gnupg
<hazrpg> with mono
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: gnupg works everywhere.. mono not always :)
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: you can also store your key on a chip card
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: http://www.g10code.com/p-card.html
<hazrpg> heh that's awesome
<hazrpg> although I don't have a reader on me
 * hazrpg pats self
<MartijnVdS> I have a Dell keyboard with cardreader :)
<hazrpg> awesome :P
<MartijnVdS> it can also read other chip cards (credit card manufacturer, phone cards, SIMs etc.)
<hazrpg> wow no way :o
<MartijnVdS> electronic cash cards :)
<hazrpg> all of which are encrypted, however I'm sure people have worked their way around it
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: not easily
<hazrpg> true
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: but cards have an id code, and there's a mapping of id code range <-> card manufacturer
<MartijnVdS> so you can tell what kind of card is in the slot
<MartijnVdS> The dutch "chipknip" (electronic cash) system is also secure: read-only commands work fine, but "write" transactions are impossible if you don't have the secret key of a bank
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Live Ubuntu Video Q+A: Every Wednesday - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/16/live-ubuntu-video-qa-every-wednesday/
<hazrpg> makes sense really
<MartijnVdS> so I can stick in my chipcard, and see the balance + last few transactions :)
<shauno> surely they could just make them usb & save the silly hardware requirement :/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: chip cards were invented way before USB
<shauno> says that p-card has been supported in gnupg since 2004.  we've had usb since then too :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: sure, but smart cards are a "known" -- they're easy to take with you (definition of "credit card size" :))
<shauno> aye.  I just don't have anything that'll read them
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they're also more secure than random USB devices from China
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you can buy a reader from the same people as you buy the card from (kernel-concepts.de) :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they have lots of types
<MartijnVdS> shauno: also, some laptops come with a smart card slot
<shauno> and the readers are just usb devices from china ;)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: sure, the readers are.. but the readers are just simple "bridges" between PC and card
<MartijnVdS> they don't know more than the PC (maybe the PIN, if it's a reader that can pin-unlock a card without host intervention)
<MartijnVdS> (those exist)
<shauno> someone should make one in the form-factor of my lacie key, that takes a sim-sized chip
<MartijnVdS> shauno: now there's an idea :)
<shauno> http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=11585
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://shop.kernelconcepts.de/index.php?cPath=1_26
<shauno> I have a couple of these on my keyring.  silly price for a usb stick, but I love the form-factor
<MartijnVdS> http://shop.kernelconcepts.de/product_info.php?cPath=1_26&products_id=133 http://shop.kernelconcepts.de/product_info.php?cPath=1_26&products_id=119
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ^ you want those
<shauno> yeah.  but in a sexier package :)
<MartijnVdS> they have openstreetmap reflective vests 8-|
<MartijnVdS> http://shop.kernelconcepts.de/product_info.php?products_id=134
<shauno> my 'key' is about 2/3rds the thickness of a normal usb plug.  and key-shaped.  makes it very convenient on a keyring
<shauno> instead of having huge chunks of plastic hanging off
<MartijnVdS> shauno: well.. be the first to market :)
<shauno> heh
<shauno> I think my work laptop has a card reader.  but nothing I have at home
<MartijnVdS> you could probably cut out a key shape from a normal smart card
<shauno> you'd still lack the reader tho.  being able to punch out a sim card is easy enough as far as the card goes
<shauno> the card's the easy bit.  a reader that's thought-free to take with me is the bridge
<MartijnVdS> shauno: get laptop with card reader built in :)
<shauno> give up my macs for some bulky dell?  nevar!
<MartijnVdS> shauno: put ~/.gnupg on your usb stick
<MartijnVdS> only problem will be possible key stealing by systems you stick your key into :)
<shauno> my .ssh lives on it already
<shauno> I don't go sticking my key in random machines tho.  too young for children.
<shauno> it just makes sure a stolen laptop isn't the end of the world :)
<hazrpg> man I hate organising emails... and sorting through them - always a time consuming process :/
<shauno> that's what procmail is for :)
<phonex01> hello guys
<phonex01> i need help
<phonex01> how can i configure proxy over a proxy
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Meauning.
<AlanBell> phonex01: you might want to add a bit more detail, I have no idea what you are trying to do
<phonex01> ok o
<phonex01> ok ok
<phonex01> listen
<phonex01> i'm forced to use a proxy in my university and i want to use outside proxy , so when i configure the proxy settings i put the setting for the universtiy proxy , but where i have to put the outside proxy settings
<phonex01> i think its called tunnling
<phonex01> do you unerstand me AlanBell ?
<phonex01> plz help !
<AlanBell> and you are using Ubuntu?
<phonex01> yes
<phonex01> ubuntu 10.10
<phonex01> can i use some package that can help in Tunneling ?
<phonex01> like httptunnling ?
<AlanBell> dunno, quite a reasonable question, it should be possible
<AlanBell> if the internal proxy is a socks proxy you could use tsocks and then in firefox the regular proxy settings for the external proxy
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> there might be a firefox extension somewhere that will do it
<AlanBell> morning MooDoo
<phonex01> what is tsocks ?
<AlanBell> !info tsocks
<lubotu3`> tsocks (source: tsocks): transparent network access through a SOCKS 4 or 5 proxy. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.8beta5-9.1 (maverick), package size 269 kB, installed size 660 kB
<AlanBell> you tell it where your internal proxy is, then run "tsocks firefox" and it will tunnel firefox through the first proxy without firefox knowing about it
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: firefox is a bad example, because it knows how to speak socks4/5 itself :)
<hoover> good morning folks
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: the point is to get through two proxies
<MartijnVdS> ah
 * MartijnVdS is too used to ssh -D :)
<smittix> o/
<MooDoo> smittix: hello :)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski hugs
<diplo> Morning
<czajkowski> MooDoo: boo
<MooDoo> czajkowski: aaaaaaaaaaarrrrggghhhhh
<dwatkins> hiya
<AlanBell> Eben Moglen at fosdem http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNaIji_3xBE
<DJones> Arrrgghh. Why when using Excel does my brain still keep trying to tell my fingers to use /fs to save files, anyone would think I was back in the early 1980's using Lotus 123
<shauno> excel does strange things to most people.  you're lucky your affliction is almost logical :)
<DJones> shauno: Yeah, surprisingly it still works though
<smittix> MooDoo: Hi :)
<MooDoo> smittix: how are you?
<screen-x> morning :)
<hazrpg> shauno: if you don't mind you might have to teach me how to use that at some point dude :)
<hazrpg> AlanBell: Woot! I made myself a PGP/GPG (whatever its called!) key and hooked up to launchpad/ubuntu keyserver finally :D! And even clicked to join the ubuntu-uk group, thing... lol
<hazrpg> Still need to make me a wiki at some point ^^
<AlanBell> yay
<hazrpg> I thought, since I've been registered on launchpad for years nows... might as well make it official :P
<popey> morning all
<BigRedS> good morning!
<Neoti|work> hey popey
<Neoti|work> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<JamesTait> Hello, hello!
<Neoti|work> hey MooDoo, i added u on msn last night ...
<MooDoo> Neoti|work: did you?
<daubers> Morning
<Neoti|work> yeah ... was just looking for fellow ubuntu'ers in my area etc ....
<screen-x> morning daubers
<MooDoo> Neoti|work: not had any requests.....:S strange....
<Neoti|work> humm .... i use empathy ... of cuase ... lol ... and sent it through there ...
<MooDoo> Neoti|work: well i'm using empathy at the moment, can you try again?
 * daubers finishes coffee #1
<MooDoo> daubers: 1?? it's nearly 10....sureley you mean 15?
<daubers> MooDoo: Nope, been so busy this morning forgot to make it till about 20 minutes ago
 * screen-x finishes last night's pizza
<MooDoo> daubers: lol
<MooDoo> screen-x: yum
<daubers> OOooh... processors might be being delivered!
 * DJones processes daubers 
<DJones> Syntax error
<bigcalm> Good morning peoples :)
<DJones> Morning bigcalm
<MooDoo> bigcalm: morning
<Neoti|work> MooDoo sent again
<MooDoo> Neoti|work: hmmm strange, i've not had any requests
 * screen-x wonders who Neoti|work is sending requests to..
<MooDoo> screen-x: me :)
<screen-x> yah, but if you arent getting them..
<Neoti|work> screen-x good point ...
<Neoti|work> some random stranger lol.....
<DJones> screen-x: It'll be easy to find out, just wait and see who reports Neoti|work as a stalker
<Neoti|work> LOL DJones
<MooDoo> stupid empathy
<Neoti|work> well i sent a message... i hope its gone to Moodoo.... lol
<Neoti|work> else i am defo being a stalker today ...
<MooDoo> i got it :)
<Neoti|work> in fact stuff it i might just pick some random strange and stalk them for the hell of it ... lol ... JOKE!!!!
<MooDoo> Neoti|work: that's how i roll with facebook, just add everyone and stalk them :)
 * DJones unfriends MooDoo 
<Neoti|work> LOL
<MooDoo> DJones: haven't started stalking ubuntu people yet, i had an issue with facebook last week and it's lost me about 35 friends
<Neoti|work> was it the virus thing moodoo ...
<DJones> MooDoo: Ouch, thats not good
<Neoti|work> as i did not click it even though loads of people kept sending it me ...
<MooDoo> DJones: it happens every so often, i've left facebook i don't know how many times
<Neoti|work> i must be the only one out of my frineds who did not click the link he he
<hazrpg> heh, facebook should be added as a bug ^^
<dwatkins> MooDoo: it lost you real friends, or facebook people you added?
<MooDoo> dwatkins: facebook people i added, i don't have any real friends ;)
<dwatkins> MooDoo: yeah you do, as evidenced by this channel's logs :)
<hazrpg> you, can't say I've added any ubuntu people on my facebook...
<MooDoo> dwatkins: over the years i've come to regard you lot as people i met :)
<dwatkins> MooDoo: indeed, my friend
<MooDoo> :D
 * MooDoo hugs you all, apart from czajkowski she gets a prod
<hazrpg> think the word is "acquaintances" then :P
<mungojerry> moodoo: red dwarf quote :P
<MooDoo> mungojerry: ssshhhhh people think i'm clever and witty
<bigcalm> As people I've met
<hazrpg> MooDoo: nah, see even I knew that ;)
<bigcalm> Ah, helps if I look up
 * bigcalm goes back to work
 * mungojerry does too :P
<MooDoo> anyway, lets not talk about me all day ;)
 * hazrpg changes topic to "Lets talk about MooDoo all day :)"
<daubers> Ooooh, processors, motherboards and SAS expansion kits
<dwatkins> daubers: and arduinos?
<MooDoo> let's talk about NAS baby :)   hmmm looks like my second drive is failing :(
<daubers> No I just need the other 112 HDD's and and I can finish this build
<Neoti|work> i might play some mine craft but dont want to lose a who day ....
<dwatkins> daubers: no small array, then
<daubers> dwatkins: Oh dear
<dwatkins> daubers: I'm not following you
<daubers> dwatkins: It's 4 seperate arrays in reality, each being 2 chassis with 16 spindles per chassis
<dwatkins> Fun with partition boundaries and RAID definitions
<mungojerry> http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/16/dell-employees-arrested-for-poor-decision-making-skills/
<mungojerry> ^^ numpties
<Neoti|work> though i was caught playing space invaders the other day by the boss and brushed it off as hackers attacking the firewall and being killed LOL ... was funny ....
<daubers> dwatkins: I'm still waiting for the other 16 tape drives as well for the cluster of tape servers
<dwatkins> daubers: reminds me of some of the customers I used to support in my previous role
<mungojerry> tape drives worry me
<mungojerry> we don't restore from tape enough...too much faith in them
<daubers> dwatkins: This is all for the Beeb
<BigRedS> mungojerry: where I used to work we didn't do practice restores frequently because they were hard and complex....
<mungojerry> exactamondo
<mungojerry> defeats the point...more of a box ticking exercise, but when there is a disaster u r screwed
<dwatkins> daubers: it's not related to an application currently being rolled-out/tested, by any chance is it?
<daubers> dwatkins: Probably not...
<mungojerry> better to rsync offsite
<daubers> dwatkins: It's destined for the archives, for their QC stuff as they digitise the old footage
<daubers> mungojerry: That's quite hard when you're talking xxTB of data
<DJones> Did anybody hear the report on BBC radio yesterday that 450 episodes of the Dick Barton radio show had been found in the Australian radio archives & the beeb were going to release some of the series/stories on CD later in the year
<dwatkins> daubers: ah I see, I used to work with them occasionally, they have quite a large video editing suite also, as you are no-doubt aware
<hazrpg> Question, do I need to put my PGP onto my e-mails to the mailing list?
<daubers> dwatkins: Yup :)
<AlanBell> hazrpg: no
 * mungojerry is pleased to report that gwibber memory leak issues seem to have improved
<hazrpg> gdgd
 * hazrpg has just realised this might not work since my e-mail is just a forward to another e-mail address
<bigcalm> Improved? It now leaks more memory than ever before?
<dwatkins> just in case you wanted to test your RAM...
 * daubers goes and finds the electric screwdriver to finish putting disks in caddies
<mungojerry> gwibber used to swallow 1gb in 24 hrs
<mungojerry> now after 20hrs or so , virt 229m  res 80m
<mungojerry> UI is still sluggish though :(
<Neoti|work> does anyone have any jobs going ... my skills are VoIP, centos, Windows networks, etc ...
<dwatkins> reminds me of Platform Computing's cluster manager - it would spit out a couple hundred megabytes of useless log errors a day due to java errors
<dwatkins> Neoti|work: any programming?
<Neoti|work> PHP, MySQL
<MooDoo> Neoti|work: this is on our jobs page - http://jobs.heartinternet.co.uk/
<mungojerry> nice job moodoo, where are u based
<MooDoo> nottingham
<Neoti|work> Humm seems good ...
<mungojerry> it's often a struggle to hire good linux guys, not sure why
<s-fox> Hello.
<Neoti|work> ok im sold "Your choice of OS for your desktop." if i can have my choice of computer and 2 x 22" monitors im yours .... lol moodoo
<MooDoo> s-fox: hello :)
<MooDoo> Neoti|work: lol
<MooDoo> i just posted the link, that's about as much as i'm involved in that side lol
<MooDoo> can't believe he's listening to alien breed intro music lol
<Neoti|work> moodoo, so you work for them, whats your role ?
<MooDoo> Neoti|work: tea boy
<Neoti|work> lol.....
<AlanBell> in bash how can I find the number of seconds between a timestamp like 01:20:43 and 01:21:32
<AlanBell> which is the output of something like "ps -C soffice.bin -o time h" showing the amount of processor time used
<AlanBell> high level problem is a process that sometimes spins at %100 CPU forever and needs killing and respawning when it does that
<smittix> MooDoo: Not bad thank's and you?
<smittix>  /delay heh
<dwatkins> AlanBell: time <command>
<dwatkins> AlanBell: oh wait, you mean process the text and throw it at the date command with a calculation?
<mungojerry> alanbell, with a little perl script
<MooDoo> smittix: yeah i'm ok thanks /straightaway ;)
<AlanBell> dwatkins: yes, I want a cron job to run every minute and see if that process has used more than say 55 seconds of processor time in the last minute
<AlanBell> so it needs to compare cumulative time with the last time it ran
<dwatkins> AlanBell: can you not change the output of ps to show it in seconds anyway?
<AlanBell> dwatkins: I failed to see that in the man page, but that would make things easier if it can
<mungojerry> alanbell, pidstat might also be your friend
<mungojerry> e.g pidstat -p <pid> 60
<mungojerry> OT: wikipedia is down :(
<AlanBell> works here
<mungojerry> :(
<Ng> it's not down :)
<MooDoo> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/wikipedia.org
<mungojerry> is on a 1gb connection :S
<AlanBell> don't think pidstat is going to do it for me :(
<mungojerry> boo
<dwatkins> silly samba got restarted now my virtual machine has stalled...
 * dwatkins tries to forget about it and let it work itself out of its state
<andylockran> guys, when did I get kicked from irc ?
<andylockran> or disconnected?
<dutchie> 16:20:00 -!- andylockran [~andylockr@genesis.zrmt.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
<dutchie> i assume yesterday
<andylockran> hmm.. very strange
<andylockran> thanks
<dwatkins> I've noticed my server sometimes kicks me off over night, not been told about any network problems with it, though.
<danfish> moarning ubuntu crew :)
<MooDoo> morning
<danfish> I am venturing into a dark, dark place this afternoon - installing windows 7 on my laptop to do a bios update :(
<bigcalm> You have to use windows to do a bios update?
<bigcalm> Can't you do it via a usb flash drive?
<andylockran> I've got an internal site with horrible css. what's the best script to use in firefox to use my local css against a particular site?
<mungojerry> or a livecd?
<andylockran> is greasemonkey the right oen?
<danfish> bigcalm: have tried and failed. I've not seen a bios updater like it.
<bigcalm> :(
<mungojerry> danfish sent u a link :P
<mungojerry> haven't done it myself but it migt save u wiping data
<danfish> thanx - i'll have a look
<danfish> clonezilla is at work copying everything right now
<mungojerry> i assume u don't have a spare hard drive then
<hazrpg> okay, hopefully that message sent successfully :)
<DJones> hazrpg: Good first email to the list :)
<daubers> mungojerry: I've been quite surprised at the quality of CS graduate candidates we've had here for a couple of job roles. Bit of a damning inditement of the current University system tbh
<mungojerry> daubers, i was trying to hire last summer and had to repeat the advertising process due to lack of response!
<mungojerry> most applications were illiterate or chancers or no work permit
<daubers> mungojerry: We had 3 candidates who couldn't tell me the difference between an interpreted language and a compiled one even though they had CS degree's and I didn't!
<MisterSlippery> lol
<MisterSlippery> I guess university isn't what it used to be
<dwatkins> I'd be more tempted to go back to uni if I thought I'd benefit from it, but I'd just end up being back at the same point I was at about 10 years ago if I did.
<dwatkins> i.e. in a new job with little relevant experience
<DJones> daubers: I work in accountancy & I've seen similar things in that industry, applicants who had a bit of knowledge after doing a degree, but didn't have the basic understanding & common sense.  Worst case was a guy who didn't understand that a balance sheet should actually balance, but was still given the job because his dad was part owner in the business
<daubers> DJones: urgh
<MisterSlippery> the old boy network
<DJones> daubers: Even worse, he wore Rupert the Bear trousers to work
<mungojerry> makes me happier when i see RHCE on their cv tbh
<daubers>  /o\
 * TheOpenSourcerer just realised that the Ubuntu Rugby Fest, organised by czajkowski is also "Super Saturday". All 3 games on the same afternoon. Could be a long session :-D
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> I know
<daubers> mungojerry: CCNA or CCIE don't mean anything as an FYI :) Met lots of Cisco certified chaps who can't tell the difference between a switch and a router or the difference between a normal switch and a layer 3 one
<hazrpg> DJones: guessing it got there ok then :P - was worried since it hadn't bounced my way yet
<czajkowski> last match is the one we;re going in for
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: I intend to be in for most of the day :D
<mungojerry> daubers, also RHCE can be fudged to some extent if you take it twice or get the info off someone
<daubers> heh
<mungojerry> but i also have a rigorous interview process :)
<mungojerry> for sysadmin roles
<DJones> hazrpg: Whereabouts in Cumbria are you, I'm down in Cheshire, but occasionally go up to Cumbria in the caravan
<hazrpg> DJones: Carlisle
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: I'll probably get there before the first kick off. Maybe even eat something too.
<mungojerry> i start them off gentle by some quick fire questions ..it's amazing how many people couldn't tell you the latest kernel version...or even get the 2.6.x bit right
<DJones> hazrpg: I've not been up round there yet
<hazrpg> MisterSlippery: Hmm, was that uni comment because you read the email?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: that's my plan
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: making use of your free pass day :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
<hazrpg> DJones: Not surprised, there are some better places in Cumbria than Carlisle :P
<MisterSlippery> no, I didn't read the email
<screen-x> mungojerry: any tips on interviewing sysadmins? I may have to design an interview process for my replacement..
<danfish> bah - you're rubbing it in now TheOpenSourcerer and czajkowski
<czajkowski> danfish: :D
<hazrpg> MisterSlippery: heh, just wondered noticed the comment about uni - but I'm guessing it was a topic I must have missed somewhere
<daubers> screen-x: Still planning on moving this way?
<mungojerry> screen-x let me check my list
<czajkowski> danfish: we may even tweet it if you're lucky
<screen-x> daubers: yep
<screen-x> daubers: had estate agents round to take pics yesterday..
<DJones> hazrpg: It depends what you're looking for, when I'm away in the van, I've got a dog with me, so all I want are wide open spaces/moors/hills/beaches I can take him for long walks on
<daubers> screen-x: \o/
 * danfish pokes czajkowski with a jealousy stick ;)
<hazrpg> DJones: exactly, doubt you'd get that in Carlisle :P
<hazrpg> some nice places around here though
<DJones> Heh
<czajkowski> danfish: we'll clearly have to do more of these at world cup time
<czajkowski> danfish: try and not go to any more conferneces please :)
<MisterSlippery> what is screen-x ?
<danfish> czajkowski: I know - the world cup should be a cracker and we get to start really early in the morning :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/statuses/37830915719827456
<czajkowski> danfish: ohhhhhhhhhhhh
<czajkowski> danfish: smashing idea, no std events then :p
<TheOpenSourcerer> Need a pub with a "friendly" landlord.
<danfish> czajkowski: that should be an std's for a lifetime
<TheOpenSourcerer> My local opened about 07:30 for the Aussie cup when we won it.
<czajkowski> danfish: I hope this confenece is worth it mister!
<mungojerry> screen-x not sure how that direct message came through to u
<danfish> czajkowski: nah, it won't be, but having to go through a tick-box exercise for a qualification
<czajkowski> danfish: qualification?
<screen-x> mungojerry: ahh missed, that will have a look now :)
<MisterSlippery> there seems to be a lot of screen-xing going on
<danfish> "Diploma in Sexual Health"
<screen-x> MisterSlippery: very useful gnu screen command :)
<hazrpg> I should really get some shut eye *eye-twitches*
<MisterSlippery> I'll have to add it to my speechbot
<czajkowski> danfish: ;)
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: round to your local during the world cup then ;) AlanBell can provide the eggy breakfasts
<AlanBell> yup
<TheOpenSourcerer> They did Bacon/Sausage/Egg sarnies
<TheOpenSourcerer> Washed down with lots of Guiness.
<Myrtti> yay! mum got out of the hospital \o/
<jussi> \o/
<Myrtti> sitting by the bedside was getting a bit tiresome
<bigcalm> She tunneled her way out?
<Myrtti> no, they let her finally out because the infection seems to be gone. I need to get some antibiotics for her after work
<Myrtti> bigcalm: belated congrats, btw.
<bigcalm> Myrtti: yay for her :)
<bigcalm> Myrtti: and thank you :)
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: the breakfast of champions (though not Ireland of course coz they've no chance)
<danfish> bigcalm: ditto congrats to you :)
<MooDoo> danfish: +1 :) now wait for the pounding from czajkowski
<bigcalm> danfish: thank you :)
<dwatkins> ...and now I'm really hungry ;)
<screen-x> dwatkins: 31 mins to go..
<dwatkins> screen-x: exactly what I was thinking :)
<czajkowski> Myrtti: glad to hear she's on the mend
<czajkowski> MooDoo: shrup
<czajkowski> danfish: I may have to agree
<MooDoo> czajkowski: love you too x
<andylockran> anyone uses the android emulator?
<popey> i have done
<popey> not recently tho
<directhex> i used the webos emulator recently, does that count?
<andylockran> popey: not sure if it's my hardware, but was it quite sluggish for you?
<andylockran> *could be my hardware, running a Pentium D...
<popey> yes
<andylockran> Pentium(R) D CPU 2.80GHz
<danfish> andylockran: it also likes a *lot* of RAM
<andylockran> danfish: I've got lots of that for it.
<Myrtti> czajkowski: well, the basic situation hasn't changed, but atleast the acute worries are gone for now
<czajkowski> Myrtti: some good news at least..
<bigcalm> Hayley just sent me an email starting "Dear Mr Cuthbertson". So I replied back with "Dear Mrs Cuthbertson". I wonder how she'll react
<bigcalm> Add a "(future)" after Dear
<popey> add "(current)"
<popey> for maximum lols
<bigcalm> LOL
<bigcalm> Evil
<davmor2> popey: I see todays xkcd is just for you :D
<czajkowski> popey: evil
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski 
<andylockran> feel the love
<mungojerry> the open parenthesis xkcd comic indeed annoyed me
<mungojerry> (
<Laney> )
<mungojerry> phew
 * Laney can breathe again
 * mungojerry too
<andylockran> does anyone have a tip for a firefox plugin to alter css
<andylockran> is greasemonkey the one to use?
<popey> hehe
<mungojerry> i'm not autistic or superstitious but i find myself avoiding cracks and patterns on flooring
<popey> (
<mungojerry> )
<popey> this is fun
<popey> [
<bigcalm> Wild About You]
<Myrtti> I don't open umbrellas indoors
<bigcalm> Where the hell did that text come from?
<mungojerry> myrtti thats not mathematical though :P
<gord> i don't open umbrellas indoors because i don't know how i would leave the house with an opened one...
<MooDoo> i step on cracks, break mirrors, allow black cats to walk in front of me, and eat cheese before bed time :)
<Myrtti> mungojerry: no, but neither is avoiding cracks and patterns on flooring
<popey> \o/ cheese
 * popey checks the topic
<mungojerry> http://xkcd.com/245/
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 3rd 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | \o/ Chickens, cheese, minecraft, trains, cake & roundabouts
 * Laney curses +t
<Myrtti> roundabouts â¥
<Myrtti> you people really love em
<davmor2> popey: http://xkcd.com/861/ :D
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 3rd 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | \o/ Chickens, cheese, minecraft, trains, cake & roundabouts (
<popey> fail
<Laney> yeah that was what i was going to do
<popey> hehe
<popey> sorry, i thought it truncated something
<AlanBell> nah
 * mungojerry cries
<mungojerry> )
<mungojerry> doesn't have channel ops
 * popey tests people's OCD by saying "(" in various channels
<hazrpg> wow popey do you have like 2 sets of hands!?
<davmor2> popey: the topic is of course missing biscuits which as we know are staple diet of the geek
<mungojerry> popey i notice ur not on omg channel any more
 * hazrpg needs to use TuxType more xD
<popey> mungojerry: indeed
<mungojerry> that channel kind of died..99% lurkage
<popey> got sick of people poking the bot all day long
<mungojerry> lol
<popey> also, here's a potentially controversial question
<mungojerry> ...
<popey> \o/ dots
<popey> s/question/statement
<mungojerry> ellipsis mmm
<popey> "The Ubuntu project would not be affected at all if OMG! Ubuntu! shutdown"
<mungojerry> hey it's good at creating hype
 * Myrtti sees tumbleweeds
 * MooDoo agrees with that popey :)
<mungojerry> i think omg can be a force for good
<Laney> i just like reading the comments every now and again
<mungojerry> jorge + jono recently posting on there,
<Laney> same reason for reading newspaper websites
<MooDoo> yeah but at the end of the day it's just a news website.....there are hundreds more
<Myrtti> Laney: for masochistic enjoyment?
<mungojerry> i don't think the plan is to muck-rake, maybe the banshee article etc shouldn't have comments enabled
<Myrtti> Laney: atleast the Finnish newspaper websites and Daily Fail have extraordinarily suitable readers comments for masochistic personalities to read
<hazrpg> I thought omg is doing a good job at promoting ubuntu, however if it ever did disappear - I doubt the community would die as a result of it though - it was there before omg, and I'm sure it'll be there after
<Laney> I suggest you try the comments on your local newspaper's website if you enjoy xenophobia
 * Laney â lunch
<mungojerry> with a few tweaks they could have a great site with less controversy and extreme comments...
<Myrtti> NIMBY attitude FTL
<MooDoo> hazrpg: it's just a news website nothing more :)
<mungojerry> even if a lot of kids read it
<hazrpg> MooDoo: agreed
<popey> 11:53:16 <@popey> (
<popey> 11:54:15 <+alexjs> )
<popey> 11:54:30 <@popey> alexjs wins/loses the OCD challenge
<popey> 11:54:42 <+alexjs> I waited for as long as I could.
<davmor2> popey: Shockingly the ubuntu project managed to survive and grow pre-OMG!Ubuntu so I'd have to agree
<mungojerry> however i look at omg before ubuntu planet
<mungojerry> and before bbc news
<popey> i never visit omg, but have it in my feed reader
<mungojerry> i like hearing about apps i never knew existed and am too busy to search for
 * mungojerry needs an omgandroid too
<hazrpg> mungojerry: pick one, there's many out there dude
<hazrpg> mungojerry: http://www.androidtapp.com/ for example
<hazrpg> or http://www.androidapps.org/
<davmor2> popey: I couldn't live without phoronix though I like that it has info I'm not likely to know about
<mungojerry> cheers hazrpg
<hazrpg> however I prefer engadget for most things
<mungojerry> i am following them on twitter but its a bit spammy
<hazrpg> since its more general
<mungojerry> so many articles all the time
<hazrpg> www.engadget.com
<popey> i have engadget in my feed reader
<popey> i rarely read phoronix
<hazrpg> I use the engadget widget on my android :)
<popey> added to google reader now
<Myrtti> I've given up reading news from newssites apart from Finnish and local news, and on the rest I trust my network of friends filter the news to me via Twitter/Facebook/Google Reader
<Myrtti> has worked pretty well so far
<mungojerry> what's the point of knowing that Arnold bloggs in scotland hit his thumb with a hammer anyway?
<mungojerry> most non-tech news is depressing
<AlanBell> if you are Arnold Bloggs then quite important
<mungojerry> then he can facebook it to his friends
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just got an extra 250M on dropbox ;-)
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone,
<mungojerry> i aim not to read too much news , and it generally has a positive effect on me the less i read
<mungojerry> you still get to hear stuff anyway
<hazrpg> popey: added which?
<mungojerry> a brief scan of bbc and google news gives you the outline of important stuff
<Myrtti> I heard from an indoor painter once about a fire in my apartment building three days after it happened. The fire had consumed the whole apartment, I didn't know because I didn't read local news
<hazrpg> brobostigon: \o hey dude
<brobostigon> hazrpg: hey, :)
<mungojerry> myrtti i'd argue that local news is more important the national news. at least you can make a difference if you need to
<andylockran> can make a difference to national news too
<Myrtti> yeah well, I was asked to run for the parliament
<Myrtti> so yeah, in theory...
<gord> i stopped paying attention to local or national news a long time ago, depressing - tech news only for me
<mungojerry> gord i am towards that, but often it's the sports news that sucks me in
<gord> sports is the thing where people run around a lot and ultimately, accomplish nothing right?
<mungojerry> making some people happy in the process, others sad, but ultimately everyone sad
<hazrpg> gord: my thoughts exactly xD
<mungojerry> with fleeting happy bits
 * mungojerry is gonna be very happy or sad tonight
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any handset hackers. This is interesting: http://eetimes.eu/en/st-ericsson-launches-the-igloo-open-source-community.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222905920&vID=209#
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a cool board. Dual Core ARM9, HDMI Out.
<AlanBell> $200
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice.
<gord> nice, someone slap a display on it and put it in a cardboard box with a keyboard, you got yourself a netbook
<AlanBell> I see an ubuntu logo on the datasheet
<TheOpenSourcerer> There is.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.calao-systems.com/articles.php?lng=en&pg=5940 last item.
<MisterSlippery> Nice
<MisterSlippery> Can you install ubuntu on any of those?
<MisterSlippery> I know ARM5 support is lacking, but not sure about ARM9
<AlanBell> MisterSlippery: not easily
<AlanBell> and on most of the little boards there isn't enough memory
<mungojerry> http://www.calao-systems.com/articles.php?lng=en&pg=6186 seems beefy though
<brobostigon> a very slimmed down debian, or android might work.
<MisterSlippery> Probably Debian would install
<brobostigon> there probebly is a debian arm port, aswell.
<mungojerry> the ZT systems server runs on A9
<hazrpg> right, off for a nap... catch ya all later
<brobostigon> bye hazrpg
<hazrpg> brobostigon: toodles o/
 * brobostigon gets hazrpg a bear to cuddle with while sleeping.
<hazrpg> brobostigon: \o/
<brobostigon> hazrpg: :)
 * hazrpg stares at his collection of penguins
 * davmor2 wonders if the penguins are staring back at hazrpg just as intently 
<brobostigon> :)
<hazrpg> ^^
<hazrpg> they followed me...
<hazrpg> people always seem to get me penguins for my birthday/xmas presents
<hazrpg> ...not that I'm complaining
<hazrpg> right anyways, laterz
<brobostigon> bye hazrpg
<hazrpg> why do I get the feeling my ubuntu-uk folder is going to be full when I wake up xD
<hazrpg> o/
<DJones> daubers: After the comments on degree's earlier, this is quite funny http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/16/graduate_sues_university/
<daubers> DJones: Is that the OXILP thing?
<daubers> Oh, no a different one :)
<DJones> university of bradford
<daubers> DJones: I hear about this one http://www.thelawyer.com/student-sues-oxilp-for-%C2%A3100000/1006833.article every day, as my Mrs is studying there at the moment
<mungojerry> djones, i was just reading that
<daubers> Generally it's the "I screwed up by not doing any work and now want to try and blame someone else and get my money back" tack taken in those cases
<TheOpenSourcerer> Chequebooks out guys: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/announce/msg00029.html
<mungojerry> had a little LOL to my self at that.
<mungojerry> which is a bit of an oxymoron
 * daubers screwed up at Uni and knows it
<mungojerry> uni was a long time ago now, but i still dream about it. weird
<DJones> There seems to be a lot of that going around, so many people blaming somebody else for their own failings
<mungojerry> i work at a uni and the threat of litigation is growing exponentially
<MisterSlippery> it's what happens when money gets involved
<mungojerry> i call it the x-factor disease
<MisterSlippery> if students are consumers paying a high price for a service, they want value for money
<mungojerry> in this generation kids have been brought up by their parents who have told them they are the best thing in the world, and they can achieve anything if they put their mind to it. then you see them auditioning for shows and clearly cannot sing but all their mates have said that they are brilliant
<MisterSlippery> they expect the university to "do what it says on the tin"
<mungojerry> exams are designed to make you fail. i wish i learned that earlier in life
<mungojerry> you have to deal with failure at some point
<MisterSlippery> but you don't expect a service provider to reject you if you're bankrolling them
<mungojerry> yeah
<mungojerry> and 9k/year is almost what they spend on fags too
 * mungojerry gets down from soapbox
<DJones> Turning that around though, would you expect a service provider to supply you with a product if you don't do what you need to to/comply with with the requirements to getthe product
<MisterSlippery> well if you pay for a product you expect it to be delivered
<BigRedS> Is this still uni we're talking about?
<DJones> With an exam though, aren't you paying for the tuition & the opportunity to sit the exam, whether you get the grade you want isn't something the university has any control of, not necessarily to be given the qualification just because you've sat through the lectures & turned up for the exam
<BigRedS> I've always thought you pay for access to the resources at uni, including lectures. It's up to you to make use of them
 * popey donates to the libre office thing
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i would agree, with that.
<MooDoo> popey: thing? project?
<popey> MooDoo: the link TheOpenSourcerer posted earlier
<popey> 13:19:32 < TheOpenSourcerer> Chequebooks out guys: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/announce/msg00029.html
<gord> interesting, not something i personally would donate to, but interesting
<screen-x> is there a standard way of finding the expiry date for a domain?
<daubers> whois?
<popey> whois <domain>
<screen-x> daubers: yah, but the output format is non standard
<popey> i have a script somewhere that parses the various ways in which the expiry can be shown
<daubers> screen-x: Waiting for the domain renewal spam tends to work too
<screen-x> daubers: heh, wanted to automate some checking..
<screen-x> popey: if you could find a copy, that would be useful :)
<BigRedS> https://github.com/BigRedS/avi-utils/blob/master/whos
<BigRedS> is what I use to do it
<screen-x> thanks BigRedS
<BigRedS> It's a really easy way to get blocked by a whois server, though :)
<BigRedS> I keep meaning to add an optional sleep thing. I wrote it when I had ~200 domains to go through
 * mungojerry just swapped a 6u beast of a server for a 0u vm :)
<screen-x> mungojerry: :)
<mungojerry> that had the carbon footprint of a yeti
<screen-x> probably worse..
<screen-x> unless you mean a skoda yeti..
<mungojerry> and the trees of the field shall clap their hands
 * screen-x tries to kick the double period habbit.
<MattJ> What's a double period?
<screen-x> 14:36 < screen-x> probably worse..
<screen-x>                                      ^^
<screen-x> missed
<davmor2> haha!
<MattJ> screen-x: it's a full-stop, and a double-full-stop is an "aspiring ellipsis"
<screen-x> ok then :)
<screen-x> and \o/ Jabber
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<BigRedS> MattJ: is that the actual term for it?
<mungojerry> in my last company, an ellipsis on a line all by itself would truncate email below that point
<MattJ> BigRedS: It is now
<BigRedS> MattJ: haha
<BigRedS> It's a better term than my 'two-thirds of an ellipsis'
<mungojerry> also known as parent directory
<MattJ> mungojerry: broken SMTP servers == yay :)
<mungojerry> i can't remember the cause now...maybe the mail disclaimer fudge in postfix
 * mungojerry has a problem where he binges on irc for 2 days and then decides to stop for a month
<screen-x> heh, I have that problem, without the stopping for a month
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> http://dpaste.com/422966/
<andylockran> that's my current method of connection to MySQL with python.. but it's borked
<andylockran> anyone point out how. (obvious prolly)
 * brobostigon returns
<BigRedS> q
<BigRedS> oop. wrong window :)
<mungojerry> andylockran, can you connect on localhost using mysql -u root -h 127.0.0.1 -u root -p test
<andylockran> YESA
<andylockran> yes
<andylockran> db = MySQLdb.connect(host='127.0.0.1', user='root', passwd='test', db='theclubshop')
<andylockran> that works
<andylockran> but what I want to do is generate the settings outside the connect string.. so create a connectstirmgh
<BigRedS> andylockran: if you just print out the connectstr, is it formed as expected?
<andylockran> yeah
<mungojerry> i only use php for that kind of stuffs
<andylockran> _mysql_exceptions.OperationalError: (2005, "Unknown MySQL server host 'host=127.0.0.1, user=root, passwd=axiom123, db=theclubshop_wolves' (1)")
<mungojerry> tried localhost instead of iP?
<mungojerry> andylockran, i see a difference between your connstr and the test string
<andylockran> sorted ta
<andylockran> I had to pass 4 values to connect()
<mungojerry> was it the ' '
<mungojerry> yep
<andylockran> passing connstr meant that it was only getting 1
<andylockran> instead did host=host,user=dbuser,pass=dbpass,db=database
<andylockran> which looks silly, but works.
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> ruddy input checking
<andylockran> indeed
<brobostigon> if i install the arduino IDE via the debian package,where is it picking up its liberies from?
<penguin42> which libraries?
<brobostigon> ie, where do i put new liberies, which i want sketches to be able to use.
<brobostigon> penguin42: i have found a lib i need to add to a sketch, to change the pwm output freq, but i cant work out where to stick it.
<penguin42> brobostigon: I don't know arduino stuff, o I don't know it's lib stuff
<brobostigon> ok.
<siriusly> hi
<AlanBell> o/
<MooDoo> hi
 * brobostigon ask's over in #arduino
<dwatkins> I have a hello world to make with my Arduino... maybe I'll make the LED flash with Morse code...
<davmor2> dwatkins: you could make a finger pulser that sends the info direct to the brain through nerve induction?
<dwatkins> davmor2: that sounds scary
<dwatkins> I was thinking more I'll start by having the LED flash with "HELLO WORLD" in Morse as my first sketch, and work my way up from there.
<davmor2> dwatkins: I was Joking :D
<dwatkins> davmor2: ah good ;)
<directhex> i don't know what i'd *do* with something like an arduino
<Azelphur> what can I use to check that my microSD card is faulty? I have it plugged in with a usb card reader atm
<gord> Azelphur, badblocks
<Azelphur> will that wipe it?
<Azelphur> My android phone keeps saying things like "Damaged SD card" "SD card damaged. You may have to reformat it." and "Removed SD card" "SD card removed, Insert a new one", dmesg from the phone says http://pastebin.com/xq1TwLK2
<Azelphur> so I'm pretty sure it's dead anyway lol
<daubers> directhex: I've got a half built arduino thing that will make a siren noise when a file is delete from a given folder on my NAS at home
<Azelphur> gord: ^
<penguin42> doesn't look a happy card does it
<Azelphur> indeed it doesn't :(
<Azelphur> it's only 11 months old too, although I did sorta abuse it and use it for...swap
 * Azelphur takes cover for the impending slap coming his way :p
<directhex> daubers, you've build a pron protection bot! :o
<daubers> directhex: Yup \o/
<Azelphur> penguin42: I got a dd: reading `/dev/sde': Input/output error while taking a dd image of the entire thing too, and that was via a microsd card reader rather than the phone
<mungojerry> can you use an arduino for sensing when people are in a large house via their mobile devices? it could show an LED on or off depending on who's smartphone/laptop is pingable or not
<Azelphur> so I suppose I have enough evidence to go for a replacement anyway
<popey> Azelphur: sounds broken HTH HAND
<Azelphur> HTH HAND?
<popey> Hope That Helps
<popey> Have A Nice Day
<penguin42> do sd's having anything like smart?
<Azelphur> haha :D
<popey> :)
<popey> tbh I doubt the swap killed it
<directhex> daubers, i think i'd get a netduino, for easier programmings
<popey> probably just a cheap / crap sdhc
 * popey is looking forward to going home time
 * popey has a 1TB drive for his laptop \o/
 * mungojerry is staying late toinght
<daubers> directhex: I've considered getting one of those to play with
<Myrtti> blaa
<mungojerry> popey, how much $Â£Â£
<maco2> popey:  wowzers
<mungojerry> i just bought a 500gb and nearly filled it already
<popey> 74 quid
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/192247
<popey> just bumped ram up to 8GB so it's "fully loaded" now :)
<mungojerry> you still go back to ebuyer?
<maco2> and its a 2.5" drive?
<maco2> or do you mean an external enclosure thing?
<Azelphur> popey: cheap crap? :O I paid Â£60 for it lol
<daubers> directhex: Also considered the other one... an mbed
<Azelphur> it's a 16GB Class 6, came recommended by #android when I bought it
<mungojerry> i've come to the conclusion that all ebuyer stock is shonky
<penguin42> Azelphur: youch - what brand?
<gord> i won't buy drives less than 1tb these days, i'll only go and use up anything thats smaller
<Azelphur> penguin42: Transcend, http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001PLIG5Y/ref=wms_ohs_product_
<popey> maco2: internal disk
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> when I bought it last year it was Â£59.73
<penguin42> popey: I've got 8GB in this - very nice; very rarely get it to swap; only way I've really managed it is playing with fractal 3d models
<popey> hehe
<daubers> popey: What brand 1TB ooi?
<gord> i really love grabbing a maximised window from the panel on my left monitor and dragging it in to the panel on my right :) such a nice natural feeling
<daubers> Oh, missed the ebuyer link
<Azelphur> gord: indeed, are you using compiz?
<gord> Azelphur, unity
<Azelphur> ah :)
<daubers> the WD 1TB 2.5" drives are the ones we use in our portable raids
<Azelphur> compiz can do that, it's just buggy
<mungojerry> azelphur: http://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/Transcend-microSDHC-Memory-adapter-TS16GUSDHC6/product/B001PLIG5Y
<gord> right no, thats not what i mean, i mean the window title bar thing, it goes inside the panel, so its sort of like the panel is the title bar
<popey> daubers: see link
<daubers> popey: I saw :)
<gord> so you grab the "panel" pull it down, gets unmaximised, drag it in to the panel on the right hand screen and it gets maximised there
<daubers> 16:26 < daubers> Oh, missed the ebuyer link
<popey> so you did
<daubers> :
<daubers> stupd keyboard
<daubers> :)
<Azelphur> mungojerry: I already got a class 10 16GB to replace it for Â£30 :)
<mungojerry> wowzer
<Azelphur> if I can get the warranty, I'll give my class 6 to my brother
<Azelphur> so I'm back to fastest/largest again now
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/fr92wVNB gonna send this to the seller, sound good?
<Azelphur> lol oops, wrong url :P
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/HDrqE1UE there we go
<diplo> Will the retailer understand linux commands ?
<diplo> Might be worth explaining ?
<Azelphur> no idea, but reading the output from dmesg is fairly straight forward
<Azelphur> Anyone with a reasonable amount of sense can understand 300 lines of "I/O error" spam
<maco2> only if they know what I/O means
<Azelphur> even if they don't there's still the "Damaged SD card" errors from android that should make sense :P
<Azelphur> there's a simple and advanced explanation, they can take their pick xD
<Myrtti> boo boo headache go away boo boo headache go away
 * dwatkins heads off wishing Myrtti well on the way
<Pendulum> Myrtti: *hugs* I'll 2nd that
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Im not a Mac fan. But& - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/02/16/im-not-a-mac-fan-but/
<directhex> tony considering a mac, yet *i'm* the one who hates freedom? tsk
<gord> spent the past half hour writing an addon for xbmc, it now works but i can say with full confidence that i never want to write an xbmc addon ever again
<directhex> gord, joyous C?
<BigRedS> I'm sure there's a way to ask Apt why it particularly wants to install a package, but I can't remember what it is
<BigRedS> anyone know?
<BigRedS> sort-of apt-cache policy, but only displaying installed packages
<dutchie> aptitude why?
<BigRedS> aha!
<BigRedS> yes, cheers dutchie !
<dutchie> np
<gord> directhex, no its in python, but its a really old version compiled in (2.4) so i had to port the json porter from 2.6 to 2.4, and then instead of having an actual plugin system it basically just executes your python file sending information as arguments...
<gord> and then debugging is a matter of tailing a log file because nothing gets printed to stdout
<directhex> sounds Enterprise(tm)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ctrl+shift+u 2122<space> -> â¢
<dutchie> or <compose> t m
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: you have a compose key?
<dutchie> i have it mapped to left alt+shift
<dutchie> â¢
<jpds> MartijnVdS: â please.
<MartijnVdS> jpds: â¥
<daubers> Evening
<dutchie> lo daubers
<Azelphur> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/02/16/1655209/Dual-core-Smartphone-Runs-Android-and-Ubuntu
<Azelphur> :O
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu? On a phone?
<MartijnVdS> talk about useless ;)
<dogmatic69> lol
 * BigRedS nearly had Debian on his G1
 * jacobw wonders whether he can have Debian on his shiny new Nexus One
<jacobw> s/One/S
<UbuntuBhoy> yeah, I had it on the Hero
<jacobw> it wouldn't work without a physical keyboard would it?
<UbuntuBhoy> yeah it does
 * jacobw disappears in puff of smoke
<Azelphur> I was trying to get Ubuntu on my DZ
<Azelphur> but my MicroSD failed :(
<UbuntuBhoy> no luck
<Azelphur> got a new MicroSD card arriving tomorrow in theory ready for round 2 :)
<UbuntuBhoy> how much you pay, and what size
<Azelphur> Â£30 16GB Class 10
<UbuntuBhoy> there was a shop on ebay doing a 16G class 10 for Â£19.99
<Azelphur> yea but that's unbranded crap
<penguin42> Azelphur: As opposed to your branded one that just fell to bits?
<Azelphur> penguin42: haha, it's got warranty
<Azelphur> and I managed to dd it, so I should be ok
<daubers> c++ makes my brain go mushy :(
 * penguin42 is kind of OK until hairy templating comes out
<daubers> I also have to control my rage for wanting to murder people who use do..while. Does my head in with the logic at the end of the statement
<penguin42> daubers: shrug, that's perfectly normal
<Azelphur> Daviey: haha, I felt the need to retweet your hate of skype :p
<daubers> penguin42: Makes code look like it was written by Yoda
<Azelphur> got my mum an android phone so she could use skype, Skype for android is broken on certain phones (Aka the one I got for her) \o/
<Azelphur> telling her to use SIP instead though, so not all is ba
<Azelphur> d
<penguin42> daubers: do { } while loops can make perfect sense for a lot of stuff
<daubers> penguin42: But when I'm trying to read and understand I have to scroll down the code all the way to the end of the loop to find out the conditions
<penguin42> daubers: Yeh but it makes sense if the condition only gets evaluated after the filling of the loop
<daubers> Hmmmm
<penguin42> daubers: There's no point in checking to see if you've got there before you've set off
<penguin42> daubers: And anyway, it's easy enough as long as your editor can go to matching }
<daubers> Hmmmmm
<daubers> not convinced is /me
<penguin42> daubers: concentrate hard and the power of the source will reveal itself
<daubers> struggling to cope with compiled languages again as it is
<ali1234> Azelphur: n900 is the best phone for skype
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I'm finally free of the evils of skype, I got my last couple contacts on it a couple days before the android problems started
<Azelphur> so I was like /point /laugh
<ali1234> well it is probably the best phone for sip too but i don't know a single person who uses it
<Neoti> hi all...
<Neoti> im pissed off wit the Centos room now ...
<Neoti> i asked a simple Q and i just got stupid comments back ...
<Neoti> this is so why open source and linux gets a bad rep!!!
<ali1234> hahaha
<popey> :)
<popey> evening all
<penguin42> so ask in the RHEL room instead :-)
 * AlanBell tries to think of a silly comment and fails
<ali1234> penguin42: AHHAHAHAHAHA
<AlanBell> evening popey
 * popey notes Ubuntu needs a restore option like time machine
<Neoti> i simply asked :Thanks... "zip -r zipfile /folder/*" worked... now i need to use the date as the file name ? anyideas ?
<Neoti> <Bahhumbug> Neoti: ##Linux for linux-101 questions, please.
<penguin42> it is pretty much 101
<ali1234> Neoti: backquotes
<Neoti> and i get stupid comments and unhelpful advice like this
<penguin42> Neoti: zip -r myzipfile`date`
<penguin42> but that's a bit raw
<popey> i just put a brand new disk in the mac, booted off the dvd and it let me restore from my most recent (or any) backup
<Neoti> see this is why i prefer this room.... !!! Thanks guys
<penguin42> popey: If you remember the phrase 'it should just work' it wouldn't be a bad one to code by
<popey> well
<popey> we dont even have a tool that doesnt work :)
<Neoti> penguin42 : that command just gives filename2Wed.zip
<ali1234> because date by default outputs a date with spaces in it
<Neoti> i would like if possible Day month year etc
<ali1234> you want dates like 20100216
<ali1234> because then they sort properly
<penguin42> oh I forgot zip is shit with names
<penguin42> it would work for tar or any sane command
<popey> zip -r myfile`date +%Y%m%d`
<popey> gives 20110216
<ali1234> heh, i forgot it is 2011
 * penguin42 reminds ali1234 which year it is
<Neoti> thank popey i will give it a try ...
<DJones> Neoti: I think if I'd gotten an answer like that from a channel, I'd have just said ok, if you don't know the answer don't worry about it :)
<Neoti> yep thats why i wanted ...
<ali1234> DJones: sarcastic politeness always a winner :)
<Neoti> yes i did not know the answer, but, the person should not have come out with go reed linux 101,,, should have at least helped like popey just did, which i am greatful for Thanks popey...
<popey> to be fair he just directed you to a channel where you may have got the right answer
<popey> *shrug*
<ali1234> ##linux isn't exactly friendly either
<popey> oh?
<ali1234> well, not last time i was there
<ali1234> it's pretty much full of people who built their own distro (hence why theyare not in a distro specific channel)
<DJones> I'd agree with ali1234 there, the only times I've gone in #linux, it was something of a trollpit
<popey> :(
<DJones> maybe trollpit is a bit harsh, but they weren't happy with basic questions, they pretty much wanted people to be experts before joining
<Neoti> its like saying they expect you to be born with the knowledge!!!!
<ali1234> not really
<Neoti> what happend to learning !!!
<popey> a fine question
<BigRedS> Especially with the missing e and extraneous !s :)
<Neoti> lol
<BigRedS> gotta say, though, I'd never thought to look for a #linux channel
<ali1234> doesn't ubuntu have a specific bash tutorial somewhere?
<BigRedS> there's an intro to using the shell on the wiki
<ali1234> yeah that's very basic though, doesn't cover this sort of stuff
<BigRedS> I missed the question :)
<BigRedS> tldp does have a bunch on bash, but I think it starts a fair bit less basic than the ubuntu one finishes
<ali1234> BigRedS: the answer was "use backquote", neither of the guides on ubuntu wiki cover that
<BigRedS> Ahh, IBM used to have a series on that sort of thing, neat little bashisms
<ali1234> the funny thing about ##linux is even though it's full of "experts", whenever i go there, they don't know the answer to my questions :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is there anything on telly? I'm brain dead now - OpenERP and Enterprise Processes & Workflows... Hmmm.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh, Masterchef.
<TheOpenSourcerer> TTFN
<PaulGit> Does anybody know how to change the Ubuntu remote desktop name that is broadcast, i.e. the name 'fred's remote desktop on conputer-name'?
<bigcalm> PaulGit: edit /etc/hostname
<Azelphur> sudo hostname newname
<Azelphur> iirc
<PaulGit> Azelphur: that contains the hostname i.e. computer-name in my example, I want to change the rest of the message that seems to be broadcast
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam: First Update - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/16/ubuntu-global-jam-first-update/
<brobostigon-g1> Evening everyone
<Azelphur> brobostigon-g1: what client you using? :D
<brobostigon-g1> Andchat
<Azelphur> brobostigon-g1: try out yaaic it's open source :D
<brobostigon-g1> Azelphur: I will try that. Thank you.
<Azelphur> :)
<brobostigon-g1> :)
<Azelphur> the developer is nice too, talked to him a couple times on IRC and sent him a 10 euro donation :P
<brobostigon-g1> Cool
<brobostigon-g1> That's good
 * brobostigon-g1 gets everyone a welsh whisky
<brobostigon-g1> Azelphur: what is the gui like?
<Azelphur> brobostigon-g1: quite nice
<brobostigon-g1> Damn, it just spontaniously disconnected. :(
<JamesTait> brobostigon-g1: netsplit I think.
<JamesTait> Or not.
<JamesTait> I should check the timestamps on my backlog.
<brobostigon-g1> JamesTait: it might have been my client here, I am not sure.
<popey> 23:48:27 -!- brobostigon-g1 [~pmt@92.14.169.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<brobostigon-g1> There.
<brobostigon-g1> :(
<brobostigon-g1> Andchat fail.
<brobostigon-g1> I will try what Azelphur suggests.
<Azelphur> :D
<brobostigon-g1> Bbl
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-17
 * brobostigon-g1 retuens on yaaic
<brobostigon-g1> hmm
<brobostigon-g1> as soon as i go to an email from notification it seems to disconect me.
<brobostigon-g1> weird.
 * dwatkins takes pictures of Eeyore
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] End of an era - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/02/17/end-of-an-era
<penguin42> erm that's possibly the most random thing to end up being posted by that
<hcfd> Hi guys. Can anyone tell me the best/fastest way to get Sun/Oracle Java RE 6 Update 3?
<hazrpg> \o hey all
<shauno> morning hazrpg
<hazrpg> morning
<hazrpg> holy cow just realised it was 5am xD
<shauno> heh, yup.   up at the crack of stupid for work
<shauno> btw, scroll up in -minecraft and see if you've got any input :)
<hazrpg> how far am I scrolling up?
<hazrpg> :P
<shauno> just the last hour or so
 * ball sighs
<hazrpg> Ø
<MartijnVdS> Â¿
<hazrpg> whoops... that was the wrong keyset
<hazrpg> <== has arabic installed too
<MartijnVdS> but.. you have to type that backwards!
<shauno> !esnesnon
<hazrpg> ÙØ§ÙØ§ :)
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: are you my mummy?
<hazrpg> my arabic writing/typing is really poor though :(
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: google translate :P?
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: + doctor who reference, yes
<hazrpg> ?
 * ball thinks about Daleks
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empty_Child
<hazrpg> ball: missing england already dude?
<MartijnVdS> it's the scary "kids with gas mask" episode
<ball> hazrpg: Every day.
<MartijnVdS> ball: just sing a couple of verses of "God save the Queen" each morning before you go to work. Should help.
<hazrpg> ball: always welcome to come back, and sure we'll all have open arms out for ya :)
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: or he could set up a cron job to automatically play it in the morning for him ^^
<shauno> it's not meant to play in the morning.  it's meant to be the last thing you hear before the telly shuts off for the night :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ah, and then The Star-Spangled Banner in the morning, to remind you where you are
<shauno> haha, I'm not going there ;)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: but ball is there
<ball> hazrpg: Not an option for a variety of reasons. Two of the primary ones are that a) I can't afford it and b) my daughter can't fly.
<shauno> bbc used to play the national anthem before they signed off for the night.  back in the scary days when stations actually turned off at night
<hazrpg> ball: can't fly why?
<hazrpg> ball: no passport?
<hazrpg> shauno: ikr!
<shauno> ?
<hazrpg> "I Know Right!"
<shauno> ah
<MartijnVdS> no passport? that exists? :P
 * hazrpg the creepy girl with the random green man early in the morning before station on...
<hazrpg> back before teletext was cool
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: you're a GIRL?!
<shauno> reminds me, I need to figure out how to renew my passport
<maco2> this requires caps?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.ips.gov.uk/
<maco2> and two forms of punctuation?
<shauno> MartijnVdS: last time I looked it required me to know someone in certain job functions (police, etc).  which I don't :(
<MartijnVdS> maco2: well, I was assuming "Hassan" wasn't a girl's name
<shauno> well, I do, but not in this country
<MartijnVdS> shauno: which country is that? North Korea?
<shauno> almost; Ireland (the non-british bit)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: 3 seconds of google tell me: http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=254
<ball> hazrpg: medical reasons.
<shauno> MartijnVdS: lol, I don't need an irish passport; I'm not irish :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ah, you're a Complex Case :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: talk to your consulate/embassy :)
<ball> New passport's going to cost me US$ 240
<ball> ...perhaps more now, it's a while since I checked.
<shauno> I'm british but living in ireland.  the general plot is exactly the same as renewing in the UK, except the co-signer has to be in the republic too.  which is where I run into a wall.  I don't know many people here
<shauno> let alone nurses / policemen / teachers / and what-not
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://britishembassyinireland.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/passports/
<hazrpg> ball: ah
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: rofl, no... just realised I had /me typed up before I sent that
<shauno> anyhow, back in 30 minutes or so, need to shuffle off to work (5 minutes ago)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: nope, I'm definitely a boy... I checked
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: heh, just realised how you knew my name xD
<hazrpg> are most of you signed up to the mailing list?
 * MartijnVdS gets enough mail already :P
<hazrpg> shauno: you might appreciate this :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyCIpKAIFyo
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: so no?
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: indeed
<hazrpg> that's what filters are for :P
<MartijnVdS> whiskey tango foxtrot @ video
<ball> hazrpg: There's a mailing list?
<hazrpg> ball: yeah...
<hazrpg> ball: hit up http://www.ubuntu-uk.org/
<hazrpg> or directly to the signup for the mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
<MartijnVdS> popey: did the Windows-Ancient in virtualbox with USB-serial trick/hack work?
<hazrpg> on my gmail I have it set to filter "ubuntu-uk.lists.ubuntu.com" to go to a label called "ubuntu-uk"
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: Have you seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-MfrT0wvMg
<hazrpg> nope
<hazrpg> there must be a way to make pidgin have a darker colour scheme :/
<hazrpg> really bugs me that its white :/
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1340828
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: aww
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: don't thinkt that will work on my windows install though
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: see, there's your problem
<hazrpg> I switch between ubuntu and windows often, so I have .purple set to a directory both can access
 * MartijnVdS just has 2 PCs to switch between Win7 and Ubuntu :)
<hazrpg> heh, if I had the money I would
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: job > minecraft :P
<hazrpg> don't really have a job lol
<ball> I have one, but it's suboptimal
<ball> I suppose technincally I have two.
<hazrpg> I do at the moment, but after this project I don't know where the next client will come from
<hazrpg> joys of working for yourself
<ball> Neither works.
<Apacheuk> morning, geez you guys are up early today
<hazrpg> or haven't slept yet...
<Apacheuk> true :)
<Apacheuk> supposed to be getting BT Infinity enabled today
<Myrtti> boo
<shauno> 30 minutes was optimistic.  windows decided it didn't want to wake up :/
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<nigelb> Morning \o/
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<TheOpenSourcerer> interesting tale of two kernels... http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/kernel-any-other-name Anyone running Ubuntu Server (32bit) *needs* to read this.
<DJones> Morning
<chalcedony> hi DJones
<screen-x> morning :)
<DJones> hi chalcedony screen-x
<chalcedony> hello
<AlanBell> http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmpubadm/writev/goodgovit/contents.htm
<diplo> Morning
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: wow - interesting article.
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: Do debian do server kernels?
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> good morning!
<bigcalm> Today's SMBC is a hoot :)
<andylockran> SMBC ?
<andylockran> to me that's Solihull Metropolitan Borough Council.
<andylockran> and they're never a hoot :p
<bigcalm> http://www.smbc-comics.com/
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> It's fun how the BBC weather site changes its background depending upon the type of weather. But it does make using the site depressing this time of year
<DJones> Anybody using tweetdeck on windows? Just wondering whether you'd recommend the Desktop app, or the google chrome app
<gord> its just flash either way isn't it?
<bigcalm> Only place I use that is on my Nexus One
<DJones> the desktop app is adobe air, not sure about the chrome version
<bigcalm> gord: air not flash on the desktop
<bigcalm> http://www.tweetdeck.com/desktop/ # that's using my monitor. How generic
<bigcalm> By the looks of it, all 3 objects are Dell
<gord> bigcalm, right, but air is basically just flash
<JamesTait> Aloha!
<screen-x> \o JamesTait
<bigcalm> I guess, but doesn't require flash player. 6 of one half a dozzen of the other
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> JamesTait: oi thats my greeting in here!
<czajkowski> dont confuse me
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i was going to mention that
<screen-x> but JamesTait is so creative with his 'good mornings'
<screen-x> he wont hog yours for long czajkowski
<JamesTait> czajkowski: Can't we share? :)
<popey> morning all
<screen-x> morning popey
<JamesTait> screen-x: I'm running out of languages. :-P
<dwatkins> Guten morgen!
<popey> Ja!
<czajkowski> Maidin mhaith
<andylockran> Suku Manu
<bigcalm> Nannoo nannoo
<MooDoo> mork calling orson
<dwatkins> nanu! nanu!
<czajkowski> http://www.networkworld.com/community/banshee-amazon-store-disabled-by-canonical-in-ubuntu  hmmm
<andylockran> ooh
<bigcalm> Interesting
<shauno> I think I'd just have to echo 'hmmm' on that one.  interesting read
<daubers> I'm not sure why they're complaining tbh
<bigcalm> I buy physical CDs and use Spotify, so I'm not going to make a difference anyway :)
<andylockran> It's an interesting precedent.
<daubers> At least they asked
<andylockran> i.e. if banshee's relationship with the amazon store was supporting the development of banshee
 * gord is going through a branch that makes unity respect the gtk theme, wonderful stuff :) 
<HazRPG> hmm...
<daubers> I do find it amusing that open source peeps seem to want to promote Amazon getting money than a company that works on a distro getting money
<mungojerry> 7digital never has any music i am looking to buy
<mungojerry> amazon does
<mungojerry> maybe they could have compromised on 50% :S
<BigRedS> daubers: I don't think the issue people are taking to heart is whether amazon get money or not
 * Myrtti found what she was looking for in 7digital and bought it from the Ubuntu One store
<daubers> I have no idea if any discussion on the %age was actually raised
<shauno> daubers: I believe U1 is essentially the same setup, but they get to rebrand their portal?
<daubers> BigRedS: Ultimatley though, a large portion of that money will go back into OSS software anyway, as canonical pays devs to work on OSS stuff
<daubers> shauno: No idea
<Myrtti> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/pda/2010/oct/01/oliver-blank-finland-album-app and Oliver Blank did have his first one on the store so I got it from there
<dutchie> daubers: Open Source Software software?
<daubers> dutchie: BOX!
<BigRedS> daubers: I think the issue is it affecting the competetiveness, more than the final destination of that money
<shauno> I think that's pretty much it.  7digital's offering kinda pales in comparison to amazon's.
<shauno> so canonical 'pull an apple' to either protect, or substitute that revenue
<mungojerry> i guess those that enable amazon store will then be giving 100% to banshee?
<bigcalm> Nothing goes to Banshee
<dutchie> bigcalm: they get money off amazon
<directhex> banshee has no amazon affiliate code
<bigcalm> I thought that was GNOME
<directhex> banshee uses the gnome code. nothing ever goes to a banshee dev
<dutchie> oh, fair enough
<shauno> it is, s/banshee/gnome foundation
<bigcalm> I read the artical ;)
<bigcalm> Well, half of it before getting bored
<daubers> shauno: Not quite a complete apple though is it, they've not banned it, just disabled the default
<shauno> I think it fails the 'do unto others' test tho.  If someone changed that affiliate code to their own in non-cannonical *buntu derrivate, people would cry foul
<daubers> Surely thats why they asked rather than just did?
<mungojerry> the amazon store within banshee is great, really handy since it avoids the separate downloader deb. shame that many won't realise it is there.
<directhex> clearly banshee > amazon's downloader thingy
<directhex> there's also a tool called clamz, dunno how well it works
<mungojerry> oh well, it's all politics, i hope it blows over in a few days
<directhex> "Hah, I see what Bansee screamers are up too. They want a place on GNOME advisory board to push their Mono and Anti-GNU agenda and they have no money. So they decided to tax Ubuntu and mask it as support for GNOME. Canonical should just dump banshee and use Rythmbox."
<mungojerry> i  thought mono extremists would have siwtched to hating java by now.
<mungojerry> actually i'd be wary of using virtualbox though
<dwatkins> why the concern with virtualbox, mungojerry
<mungojerry> because the new owners are not OSS friendly
 * dwatkins adds a question mark to the above line... ?
<directhex> mungojerry, they still herald Java as completely Free and safe.
<directhex> mungojerry, it's GPL, and it's not Microsoft. those are how things are defined as Free
<BigRedS> I think Java's probably percieved as too stagnant to be viewed in a threatening way
<BigRedS> MS are actively pussing .NET, nobody's doing that with Java
<BigRedS> *pushing
<UndiFineD> I use virtualbox, they actually loosened the license for 4.0
<mungojerry> how so undifined?
<popey> 10:24:48 < shauno> I think it fails the 'do unto others' test tho.  If someone changed that affiliate code to their own in non-cannonical *buntu derrivate, people would cry foul
<popey> people already do
<UndiFineD> it was stricter, and not all goodies were available for free
<popey> crunchbang has changed their affiliate code for firefox so they get revenue and ubuntu doesnt
<popey> AIUI
<popey> I don't believe Ubuntu has ever complained about this fact
<popey> I suspect mint probably change thiers too
<mungojerry> canonical already contribute financially to the gnome foundation too
<mungojerry> popey i noticed an xserver update to natty today
<mungojerry> or is it the nvidia update you're waiting for?
<gord> mungojerry, no
<mungojerry> didn't see the changelog tho
<AlanBell> gord: when resizing a VM window that runs unity it gets a bit confused, is that a bug?
<AlanBell> end up with the top toolbar where the top of the old screen size was
<gord> AlanBell, sorry i don't follow
<gord> oh wait you mean unity running in a vm :)
<AlanBell> yes
<gord> yeah, so resolution changes aren't hooked up yet, i don't know why. i need to ping the nux guy about that again honestly, there are a bunch of bugs about it
<AlanBell> ok, thought there might be
<morleypotter> Morning all - Does anyone know anything about multiple network protocols in peer to peer technologies (i'm not up to anything by the way :) )
<AlanBell> bug 684539 seems to be the main one for the resolution change issue
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 684539 in Unity "Unity does not update when screen resolution changes" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/684539
<morleypotter> I'm wondering, if I create a torrent file (legal, for uni work) will it work on all the protocols and applications?
<morleypotter> gord: I'm using VM's at the minute for my uni project, you get very different results with different VM packages. (have only walked in half way through the conversation though)
<bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmoDLyiQYKw # safe for work, requires sound
<morleypotter> bigcalm: nice one :)
<czajkowski> http://design.canonical.com/brand/10.%20Photography%20treatments.pdf  <----- very useful document
<AlanBell> I spy Matt Barker
<mungojerry> firefox 4 beta + adobe reader plugin takes 10 attempts to open pdfs :( got there eventually
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I spy most of the design team
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> sorry wrong to pull a sad face
<gord> mungojerry, don't like evince?
<gord> gord <3 evince
<mungojerry> i like viewing the pdf in the browser window
<gord> its like adobe reader but doesn't take an hour to start up and doesn't eat up a billion ghz of processing power
 * mungojerry has cpu to burn
<gord> i have a quad core i7, adobe reader is still slow and eats up more cpu than i can provide it with
<mungojerry> it's funny, when i run a kickstart for our user machines, half of the 15 min kickstart time is taken by installing adobe reader (90mb)
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 tickles czajkowski 
<czajkowski> davmor2: oi there will be less of tha mister!
<davmor2> czajkowski: it was that, proding or hugs, I fancied a change :P
 * AlanBell tickles davmor2's fancy
 * AlanBell didn't really think that one though properly
 * czajkowski pus AlanBell and davmor2 in a room on their own 
<czajkowski> *puts
<davmor2> AlanBell: No you didn't
<mungojerry> lol
<gord> do we need an #u-uk naughty step?
<davmor2> gord: haha
<davmor2> He czajkowski you off on Holiday again?  do you every work in the UK?
<czajkowski> gord: yes MooDoo and davmor2 to sit on it every day
<czajkowski> davmor2: I am in the uk....
<czajkowski> saturday week off to spain :d
<davmor2> czajkowski: My point exactly you seem to be out of the country more than you're in it :D
 * screen-x would have been on it yesterday
<Ng> /1/3
<gord> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=613083 hehe
<gord> libreoffice off to a flying start ;)
<Ng> gord: epic facepalm :O
<bigcalm> gord: WOW!
<mungojerry> i usually use .rpmsave when trashing files with a package :P
<gord> in other news, i just tried to close a window on my desktop, then i realised that "window" was a screenshot of an osx application a friend had sent me
 * mungojerry thinks of a good april fool joke involving desktop wallpaper :P
<shauno> hah, that bug is tasty.  if only for the "oh, didn't think of that.  sorry" bit
<dwatkins> oh my, that could be rather catastrophic
<dwatkins> why don't installers just do something like: TEMPDIR=/tmp/`date +%s`     ?
<dwatkins> granted, there's a miniscule chance of a conflict, so it could also include the PID and some other pseudo-random reference/number
<screen-x> dwatkins: a dir version for $(tempfile) would cool
<dwatkins> screen-x: dir version in which sense?
 * dwatkins checks for a manpage for tempfile
<andylockran> I thought /usr/share/appname/* was a sensible place to store app stuff.. why's it even looking at  / ?
<andylockran> surely that goes against FHS anyway
<dwatkins> I think it's just during installation, but even so andylockran - you have a point
<andylockran> /usr/share/app/temp :p
<andylockran> merging both our suggestions
<andylockran> using opera at the moment.. you can 'stack' tabs ontop of each other.
<smittix> anyone any good with MS SQL
<Laney> dwatkins: mktemp -d
 * daubers upgrades his USB stick
<diplo> smittix, I've used it in the past, not overly heavily.. I'd just asked and see if any of us can answer :)
<andylockran> smittix: hit us with the question :)
<MooDoo> :)
<Laney> laptop â natty
<popey> s/hit/tickle
 * Laney is scared
<popey> i want to go home
<popey> to put my new ssd in laptop :(
<popey> this is the downside of getting new toys delivered to work
<Laney> yesterday I had a new toy arrive at work
<smittix> andylockran: Came in this morning with our ERP down, Looks as if someone has deleted a field from within a table. Im no SQL expert but i need to know whats happened.
<Laney> so I may have worked from home in the afternoon ;)
<Laney> â¥ squeezebox radio â¥
<andylockran> smittix: guess the best thing is to find out what the logging logs.
<popey> heh
<popey> smittix: what ERP system is it?
<smittix> It's called Defacto
<andylockran> smittix: check the transaction log ?
<popey> oooh, not heard of that one
<andylockran> do you know hte field?
<waveform> smittix: have a look at the system catalog (wherever that it in MS SQL - I'm not sure off the top of my head) to see what the last modified timestamp of the table's meta-data is?
<smittix> Where is the transaction log?
<waveform> smittix: you might want to try #sql as well - there's a few people in there that know MS-SQL pretty well
<andylockran> smittix: yeah, I'm afraid I can't help with MS SQL specifics (not knowing it at all)
<dwatkins> Laney: thanks
<dwatkins> daubers: a magical stick of diagnostic tools?
<waveform> smittix: just had a quick trawl thru the t-sql ref - have a look at modify_date in sys.objects (filter on the name column for the table you're interested in)
<daubers> dwatkins: Indeed!
<smittix> waveform: thanks I will try it
<screen-x> presumably if I renew an ssl cert, I have to download and install new version of cert from CA?
<BigRedS> screen-x: yup
<BigRedS> new cert, new ca-cert if you're using one, generally same key
<screen-x> BigRedS: ok, just waiting for a new version to appear on the certificate management page
<czajkowski> nnn/away
<screen-x> s/nnn/mmm/ its lunchtime!
<czajkowski> :)
<HazRPG> \o Lunchie
<Lunchie> heya haz
<davmor2> czajkowski: was humming the theme to batman as she typed that I'm sure
 * czajkowski sends davmor2 to the naughty step 
<HazRPG> czajkowski: ^^
<screen-x> is that #ubuntu-uk-naughtystep?
<davmor2> czajkowski: Has been sat on the naughtystep the whole time :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: only place for you and MooDoo
<HazRPG> that and minecraft xD
<davmor2> czajkowski: it has our names on :)
<czajkowski> more like a dent in the seat
<AlanBell> it does :)
<Welshy-Rob> Hello, my ubuntu (10.10)  seems to be running really slowly on my system, i can only run about two programs at once and it still manages to crash now this could be because i have a pretty poor pc but the previous version of ubuntu used to run so much faster! is there anything you can suggest i do?
<czajkowski> Welshy-Rob: have you U1 running and updating files anywhere?
<screen-x> Hi Welshy-Rob, have you investigated system > administration > system monitor?
<HazRPG> beaten to the punch
<HazRPG> was about to ask both those questions
<Welshy-Rob> czajkowski, whats UI?
<HazRPG> U1 = Ubuntu One
<HazRPG> file syncing and music store
<Welshy-Rob> then no i dont
<Welshy-Rob> screen-x, there's nothing really odd there to be fair
<HazRPG> open up system monitor and as screen-x mentioned, and try and see what's eating up your resources - might help narrow down what's killing your system
<HazRPG> try and organise by CPU %, that way you can see what's doing the most activity
<screen-x> Welshy-Rob: is it anything in particular thats crashing?
<Welshy-Rob> firefox, chrome, Banshee
<screen-x> do you get prompted to report a bug when the crash?
<HazRPG> Welshy-Rob: what would you say was the general routine you do before it just crashes out?
<Welshy-Rob> nah i have to reboot, its completly dead cant even move the mouse, well usually its when i go on facebook  or music changes song
<screen-x> sounds X ish, have you tried reading /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old?
<mungojerry> welshy-rob when looking at system monitor , go to the resources tab and check how much RAM you have too
<mungojerry> by RAM i mean memory
<Welshy-Rob> mungojerry, 266.3Mib (53.7%) of 495.8 Mib
<Welshy-Rob> screen-x,  what am i looking for ?
<screen-x> Welshy-Rob: a crash, normally reported at the end of the log
<screen-x> Welshy-Rob: also, that isnt much ram..
<Welshy-Rob> screen-x, yeah its only single core 512 ram so its not the greatest pc in the world but before ubuntu 10 it used to run fine ?
<screen-x> Welshy-Rob: anything interesting in the xorg log?
<Welshy-Rob> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Welshy-Rob> screen-x,  ill show you
<screen-x> ok
<mungojerry> welshy-rob, do you have system monitor graphs open when performing the operations that cause it to go slow? it could be useful in identifying what is happening (whether memory or CPU grpahs flatline at 100%)
<Welshy-Rob> http://pastebin.com/ceb4z76w
<Welshy-Rob> mungojerry,
<Welshy-Rob> yeah
<Welshy-Rob> mungojerry, well right now, my CPU history is sky high and im only running xchat, system monitor and file browser
<mungojerry> ok, now switch to processes tab and order by CPU column
<screen-x> Welshy-Rob: xorg log looks ok.
<Welshy-Rob> screen-x, could it be compiz? cause i have medium effects enabled?
<screen-x> Welshy-Rob: dont know, mungojerry sounds like he has a plan though.
<mungojerry> what's at the top of the list? and what are the CPU values
<Welshy-Rob> atm, gnome system monitor cpu 22-9
<Welshy-Rob> then xchat at 2 and metacity at 0
<Lunchie> laters people, time for systems analysis class
<HazRPG> yeah system monitor does tend to kill the CPU sometimes, might be worth changing the intervals up from every 3seconds to say 5-10 seconds
<Welshy-Rob> HazRPG, done
<mungojerry> variable CPU is OK, it's when your CPU usage is pinned at 100% that you have a bottleneck
<mungojerry> now it's time to try and break the system again while watching system monitor
<Welshy-Rob> sweet
<Welshy-Rob> right, lets crash my pc then, wll the Xorg log everything right?
<screen-x> Welshy-Rob: it will only be noted there if you manage to crash X
<Welshy-Rob> ok
<Welshy-Rob> well ill be right back then....
<screen-x> hmmm successs?
 * mungojerry only just discovered that skype for linux has a share-your-desktop facility - does it work ok with ubuntu?
<mungojerry> firewall-traversing desktop support for parents would be cool
<screen-x> mungojerry: I use openvpn for that, but I guess skype would be easier..
<mungojerry> yeah, bigtime
<HazRPG> I've used it on skype for a while in ubuntu :P
<Bassetts> Does anyone have experience with Logitech HD webcams on linux?
<screen-x> Bassetts: iirc http://popey.com/webcam/ uses a logitech.
<screen-x> though it appears to have fallen over slightly
<Bassetts> ping popey do you use a logitech webcam with linux?
<Bassetts> thanks screen-x
 * BigRedS uses a logitech webcam with linux
<BigRedS> I don't know which one off-hand, though, and I don't have it with me
<Bassetts> BigRedS: is it a HD one?
<Bassetts> ahh ok
<BigRedS> ah, no
<BigRedS> I should've read up *before* responding :)
<Bassetts> that is the ones I am worried about working, specifically a C310
<BigRedS> ah, it doesn't claim any sort of standards compliancy :(
<mungojerry> hazrpg, u can send and receive desktop sharing requests throught NAT routers between win/linux machines?
<HazRPG> I use a Microsoft LifeCam HD one
<Bassetts> HazRPG: does that work?
<HazRPG> works fine in cheese - and on skype, so one would assume so :P
<BigRedS> I'm always amused at how well MS hardware tends to work under Linux. Mostly through just adhering to standards...
<HazRPG> mungojerry: if you mean by sharing requests, that I can control the remote machine - then no, however you can share the desktop and see what the other person is doing, or they can see what your doing... works quite well
<davmor2> BigRedS: It's the one thing MS do right hardware
<HazRPG> I wouldn't recommend playing a game over it though - as I found out xD
<mungojerry> hazrpg, great, thats all i need
<mungojerry> my dad is > 1hr drive away and often asks me vista questions
<HazRPG> BigRedS: is is shocking how microsoft hardware is reasonably good, its just the O/S that reeks
<mungojerry> i used to know what screens to expect on XP but i haven't really gone near windows for a few years now
<HazRPG> it is*
<HazRPG> heh, yeah people ask me vista questions all the time and I haven't a clue how to respond - XP I know, slowly getting to grips with 7
<HazRPG> ubuntu I sort of know (always seem to find something new to learn all the time!)
<HazRPG> just really don't know what's going on with vista though, and its shocking how many still actually use it (sadly) T_T
<mungojerry> my dad refused to pay for the upgrade
<popey> Bassetts: i do
<gord> the other weekend i spent about half an hour desperately trying to figure out how to uninstall an application on windows 7...
<Bassetts> popey: is it a hd one?
<popey> define HD
<popey> it's a logitech pro 9000
<popey> 960x720 is max resolution
<daubers> ascii 70 and ascii 68
<popey> AIUI the logitech pro 9000 'for business' does 1280x720
<Bassetts> one that Logitech market as their HD range
<Bassetts> e.g. c270, c310 etc
<popey> it is neither of those
<Bassetts> fair enough, they seem fairly new and I wanted to check compatibility
 * daubers realises ascii 70 is F and goes to sit in the fail corner
 * mungojerry bought 20 packs of monster munch today mmmmm
<popey> (
<Bassetts> shame my HD camcorder doesnt function as a webcam too :-(
<mungojerry> ) is still irked by the topic name
<popey> heh
<popey> Bassetts: which camcorder?
 * popey hugs his kodak zi8
<Bassetts> Samsung H200
<popey> co-worker has kodak zx3 which is lovely
<popey> and waterproof to 3M
<dwatkins> I tend to buy cheese & onion crisps in packs of 26
<dwatkins> although I like Monster Munch also :)
<popey> i end up with a layer of monster on the inside of my mouth
<popey> (that sounds wrong)
<mungojerry> 20 bags for Â£2.55 ..months supply sitting in my office drawer
<popey> when I eat monster munch
<Bassetts> popey, that is one of those handheld mobile phone like ones right?
<popey> ya
<popey> like the flip
<popey> its great, i carry it with me everywhere in my coat pocket
<Bassetts> aye, I went for a traditional style one
<popey> also, SD cards FTW
<Bassetts> mine does SD :-)
<Bassetts> didnt see the point in an ssd model when 16GB of 1080 lasts as long as the battery
 * mungojerry used a webcam to find out who was snaffling our cakes and biccies once
<Bassetts> mungojerry: that is a similar reason to me wanting one
<Bassetts> webcam + motion + revo = spying :-)
<mungojerry> turned out to be a cleaner at 5am having a right old feast..and helping themselves to Â£20 from my drawer. althouh i shouldn't have hidden it under a bar of chocolate
 * Bassetts wanders off to actually eat something and finish off coursework
 * mungojerry ponders cracking open another bag of crisps
<Myrtti> I don't understand the attachment to crisps, I don't understand the multipack idea, I don't understand it in packed lunches, I don't get it
<Myrtti> maek no sense
<mungojerry> myrtti, you're finnish, right?
<Myrtti> it's a treat in my books, not something that you could have every day
<mungojerry> my sister's partner is danish. he says the same thing. it's very british though. you never find delicacies like monster munch or walkers sensations chicken &thyme flavour in other countries :P
<Myrtti> goes to the same category with candy, chocolate and soda
<mungojerry> crisps are an essential part of my daily lunch
<Myrtti> ew
 * andylockran tucks into some prawn cocktail...
<popey> MARMITE!
<popey> OM NOM NOM MSG
<soneill> our work canteen has started offering marmite as an alternative to jam
<soneill> that is all
<popey> we have marmite in our canteen too, with toast
<mungojerry> in fact, if i've gone a day without eating crisps or meat, i feel that i've missed out
<popey> it wins
<moreati> Myrtti: What's in a Finnish packed lunch?
<popey> fish and vodka
<gord> moreati, disappointment
<lunchie> Ewww Marmite
<popey> hah
<soneill> lol gord
<popey> darkness
<popey> and quietness
<mungojerry> they do have better haribo flavours in other countries though
<mungojerry> i often go to lidl to check out their offerings
<lunchie> like what?
 * moreati ignores the national stereotyping and hopes for a chance to learn something
 * HazRPG runs behind mungojerry and bites one
<Myrtti> moreati: usually there are no packed lunches, our cafeterias are fairly good, but (rye) bread or salad or microwaveable leftovers, milk or juice and a muesli bar?
<HazRPG> (monster munch that is)
<gord> pretty much what kind of packed lunch i had as a kid
<mungojerry> sounds like crisps would go nicely with that lunch
<JamesTait> Bacon and poached egg on toasted seeded batch. Not one for the vegans, obviously.
<moreati> Myrtti: Thank you, I'll have to try rye bread some time
 * mungojerry had chocolate spread sandwiches as a kid. that is why he has high dental bills but is strangely underwieght
<Myrtti> I don't usually ever buy soda, candy or salty snacks at a store, I have been without crisps for years. Sometimes I have plain Doritos with salsa or guacamole when watching a movie, but...
<popey> I used to like working in finland
<lunchie> monster munch flavored haribos, and vodka to wash it down
<popey> except that the canteen did healthy food, which was no good after we went out on the beer on thursday night
 * mungojerry gave up beer a few years ago
<mungojerry> wsn't hard considering the quality in london pubs
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<Bassetts> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey Bassetts
<BigRedS> g'morning brobostigon!
<shauno> I've sworn off drinking anything I didn't make myself.  ends up being more scarcity than moderation
<Bassetts> long time to chat
<brobostigon> hey BigRedS
<mungojerry> hey i have an ubuntu question *shock*
<popey> ooo me too :)
<popey> you first
 * mungojerry steps up...
<dwatkins> shauno: how do you make water? ;)
<mungojerry> i have ubuntu desktop connected to ldap. my /etc/nsswitch.conf contains "passwd files ldap", but when i do ps -ef i see entries such as this: 108      32510     1  0 Feb16 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/hald
<shauno> dwatkins: who on earth drinks water?
<mungojerry> uid = 108 rather than haldaemon
<dwatkins> shauno: good point, I rarely do
<mungojerry> but getent passwd | grep 108 shows haldaemon
<mungojerry> weird huh?
<mungojerry> my own uid and root show correctly
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hey dude \o
<brobostigon> HazRPG: hey, :)
<mungojerry> popey , your turn
<popey> 68        5630     1  0  2010 ?        00:00:32 hald
<popey> I see same :)
<popey> on RHEL5
<mungojerry> popey, u on ldap, or any other auth?
<dwatkins> I also see the UID for haldaemon in the ps output on CentOS 5.5
 * mungojerry notices it on SL5/RHEL5 too
<dwatkins> i.e. the number not 'haldaemon'
<popey> passwd:     files ldap
<mungojerry> yet i see avahi in RHEL, which only exists in ldap
<popey> file a bug :)
<popey> wonder if haldaemon is missing in ldap?
<mungojerry> doesn't need to exist
<mungojerry> sorry, avahi only exists in passwd
<dwatkins> I'm using winbind as well as local files for user info (i.e. what nsswitch.conf describes as passwd)
<popey> i have no avahi on this box
<mungojerry> bug 131306
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 131306 in hal (Ubuntu) "ps -ef shows lists hald and dbus-daemon runs with numerical uid " [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131306
<mungojerry> That's because 'haldaemon' and 'messagebus' are to long to fit into the  field. Instead ps shows the numerical ID for those users.
<popey> oooo
<mungojerry> google to the resuce
<popey> how crap
<dwatkins> mungojerry: tada
<dwatkins> I guess all command line outputs with tables are a bit restricted in terms of how they can output, one way or another
<mungojerry> checked a colleagues machine who has a long name, same thing
 * dwatkins is reminded of someone he was at school with by the name of Konstantin Konstantinovic
 * mungojerry is reminded of hassan hassan hassan in my brothers year
<penguin42> your name? And your surname? And finally any middle names?
<popey> There's a bloke at Dell called "Demis Dememis"
<dwatkins> Some parents are just cruel.
<popey> (say it aloud)
<mungojerry> i had a visit from a dell person called del lunn
<popey> anywa, mungojerry can I do my question now?
<dwatkins> popey: in French or English pronounciation?
<mungojerry> and he came to give SAN training
<popey> phonetically
<mungojerry> popey go ahead
<dwatkins> I guess I need to reformat parts of my brain, but I'll let you get on ;)
<popey> whats the best way to migrate from 320GB hard disk to 120GB SSD
<popey> clonezilla wont work, because the disk is shrinking
<penguin42> delete 200GB
<popey> its running ubuntu
<dwatkins> popey: OS partition or just data? is there space?
<mungojerry> lvm or partitions
<mungojerry> if the /home partition is < 120gb i'd copy only that over to a suitably sized partition on the SSD
<screen-x> popey: tar via ssh
<dwatkins> I'd be considering booting from USB with external storage attached if I had to copy the OS partition, and couldn't just reinstall and copy /home across (assuming same OS version)
<mungojerry> partimage GUI run from livecd allowed me to reduce my partition
<mungojerry> screen-x i wonder what happened to welshy-rob :P
<screen-x> mungojerry: yeah, I thought he quit because he was trying to cause a crash, but then didnt return..
<shauno> tar's a surprisingly sensible way to clone systems.  (cd / && tar cf - $(ls -1 |egrep -v "mnt|proc|sys|dev") ) | (cd /mnt/target && tar xvfp -)
<dwatkins> I like that tar preserves permissions and ownership, assuming equivalent UIDs
<shauno> you'd need to recreate whatever hides beneath devfs's mountpoint tho
<shauno> (or run it from a livecd and not have to exclude folders)
<bigcalm> In the fridge there is some couscous made on Sunday. Think it'll still be ok?
 * brobostigon shakes his head.
<bigcalm> That bad?
<brobostigon> maybe.
<bigcalm> Pot noodle it is then
 * mungojerry just watched the elementary OS video in HD full screen to get a feel of what it's like : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFwHTcSZjAk
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i would say, with starches, a day, is probebly the limit.
<dwatkins> I wouldn't touch rice or couscous that's over a day old
<dwatkins> see: wikipedia://e-coli
<brobostigon> agreed.
<brobostigon> yes.
<Myrtti> cold rice and couscous is one of the most common sources of foodborne illnesses in western countries
<shauno> this I didn't know.  last night's rice tends to feature heavily in my curries
<dwatkins> mungojerry: looks a lot like someone copied Mac OS X to me :-/
<brobostigon> thats why, when i reheat my curry, i reheat it properly, to kill off all that.
<mungojerry> even borrowed the wallpaper
<Myrtti> shauno: Cooking with Geeks has a good chapter about cold rice
<dwatkins> mungojerry: indeed, I don't get why people insist on making their desktops look like some other OS, I'd prefer to be unique
<shauno> dwatkins: I was thinking that, but as a self-confessed mac 'fanboy', I refrained
<mungojerry> i have a special way of dealing with cold rice: open bin, throw away.
<dwatkins> shauno: my main machine at home is a MacBook Pro
<mungojerry> dwatkins running which OS?
<dwatkins> mungojerry: currently just Mac OS X 10.6.6, although I've been consiering triple-booting it with Ubuntu and that other OS some people use
<dwatkins> thing is, Mac OS X is good enough
<brobostigon> mungojerry: less than 24 hours, reheat, really well, to kill off bugs. more than 24 hrs, bin.
<penguin42> anyone got a msi u135 netbook? Argos seem to be doing them for Â£149
<mungojerry> never been tempted by mac os since i generally prefer to buy cheaper hardware, self-upgrade and "make do" with what i find
<shauno> I got lazy when that's what my day job turned into.  ruined a perfectly good hobby.
<mungojerry> i'm no RMS but community and ideology in software feature quite highly for me.
<mungojerry> if it needs specialist software to run/administer, then often i avoid it (e.g. mp3player, printer, scanner, smartphone)
 * brobostigon uses diskspace analiser toworkout,where toclear out stuff from the microsd inhis phone.
<shauno> my ideology tends more towards my data than software.  software's effectively transient. my data is mine.
<brobostigon> bigger microsd i think.
<shauno> a fantastic number of the loudest free software advocates are happy to let google own their emails
<mungojerry> shauno, although google offer ways to extract the data, so you aren't locked in
<shauno> so you have a nice free, prinstine system, while all your data is wrapped up in proprietary products
<mungojerry> my zimbra server now offers a button allowing users to download an archive of all their mail,etc. previously only possible to admins - nice touch
<andylockran> that's kewl mungojerry is that the new 7 version?
<dogmatic69> any way to get mysql 5.5 on 10.10
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: I think you'd need to build it
<dogmatic69> :/
<BigRedS> I had a brief look for someone packaging it for debian and didn't come across anything
<dogmatic69> no worries
<dogmatic69> ill wait for a ppa
<BigRedS> though by brief it was about long enough for the customer to point out that he didn't *need* it
<dogmatic69> :)
<bigcalm> Made fresh mushroom couscous and added some bacon
<bigcalm> Bacon makes anything better
<lunchie> Hooray for bacon
<dwatkins> bigcalm: does that include bacon toothpaste? ;)
<bigcalm> dwatkins: for dogs I'm sure it does
<brobostigon> http://www.slapometer.com/ :)
 * popey returns from work after asking his question ages ago
<dwatkins> welcome home, popey - time to put your feet up and start doing tech support for your family instead of your colleagues, I assume...
<popey> er
<popey> still at work
<popey> i mean "return to irc from work" :D
<popey> the laptop has a desktop ubuntu install on it, with one big partition
<popey> i need to migrate to ssd
<danfish> popey: migrate to 120gb ssd from 300gb disk?
<dwatkins> aha, thought you might have some nice cushy number where you finish early so you can collect younglings from school
<danfish> how full's the 300gb disk with actual data?
<popey> danfish: yes
<popey> guess easiest is do a clean install then rsync /home over
<bigcalm> I would
<shauno> I still vote for tar|tar
<danfish> popey: probably yes - I did that when I migrated from 32 -> 64 bit
<popey> shauno: needs a second machine
<dwatkins> I'd back it up to an external disk, try the resize, and if it fails, restore or reinstall then restore the data
<shauno> popey: or a livecd
<danfish> but I forgot about the VM's in a a dir under /var :(
<dwatkins> popey: if you were closer, I'd lend you my 1TB spare hdd
<popey> i have plenty of space
<shauno> oh, laptop .. two disks at once may be awkward
<popey> indeed
<danfish> nice SSD tho
<popey> could put the ssd in a usb enclosure
<bigcalm> external harddrive enclosure
<popey> seems perverse
<bigcalm> Jinx
<popey> then what? boot to cd, do the install then rsync over, swap drives, job done?
<popey> in fact!
<popey> how about, shutdown machine, swap disks, so I'm on SSD
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> boot from CD, install, attach _old_ disk via USB
<popey> rsync data
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> job done
<popey> that makes more sense
<bigcalm> That's what was in my mind from the start
<popey> haha
<popey> you say that now!
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<andylockran> anyone use mailman?
<bigcalm> As a subscriber, yes
<andylockran>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
<andylockran> 25556 mailman   16   0  364m 289m 2572 S  0.0 14.9   0:16.09 python2.5
<andylockran> One of our servers is running it - two lists, one with 10 people, the other with 20
<andylockran> neither is high traffic (as you would imagine)
<andylockran> is it normal for it to be eating so much memory ?
<dogmatic69> andylockran: is that not including cache?
<popey> andylockran: http://paste.ubuntu.com/568260/
<popey> thats lug.org.uk
<popey> which has 100+ lists
<andylockran> yeah, Houston, I have a problem :)
<andylockran> mailman  25556  0.0 14.8 373684 296316 ?       S    04:01   0:16 /usr/bin/python2.5 /usr/lib64/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
<andylockran> that seems to be the culprit for the high memory usage
<dwatkins> So the mailman is eating your memory? Makes a change from the dog eating the mailman...
<andylockran> :P
<mungojerry> andylockran, using zimbra 6.0.10
<ikonia> anyone done any motherboard/cpu shopping latley, I need to swap out a legacy board/cpu combo on a Linux box and I'm out of touch
<mungojerry> but zimbra 7 is looking nice
<popey> ikonia: not I, Azelphur has I think
<popey> he keeps up to date on hardware
<directhex> don't get one made from wood. wood is bad at conducting electricity. #protip
<ikonia> well, I'm scouring the second hand stuff too
<ikonia> the board I've got on this box could take a quad core 775 chip, but it won't support more than 2GB ram
<popey> i have no idea what a 775 chip is :D
<dwatkins> 2 GB of RAM is enough for anyone.... oh wait, it's not 1999 anymore.
<ikonia> need something that will support a quad core and more ram, with as much Linux happy kit on, eg: intel chipsets :)
<popey> I just maxed out every PC I own to 8GB
<directhex> popey, older intel socket, as used for desktop chips from high-end Pentium 4 up to Core 2 Quad
<popey> ahh, probably same as my desktop then
<popey> Asus thing with C2D which could go as high as Q6600
 * popey points ikonia at directhex :)
<ikonia> popey: that's the same problem I've got, all my desktops are rammed up to the nines, gone to ram this one up and it won't take more than 2GB...
<Azelphur> ikonia: haha good timing just woke up
<ikonia> I know directhex is normally on the cutting edge
<ikonia> Azelphur: ahhh perfect
<popey> novatech bundle?
<ikonia> I can go away and do a ton of research or I can ask experence
<Azelphur> I'm not that amazing on hardware, when I built mine I went to my hardware person and said "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
<ikonia> experience
<Azelphur> but I'm a bit better having completed the build :)
<Azelphur> what's your budget?
<ikonia> what's my options for a solid board that will take a good chunk of ram and a quad core cpu
<ikonia> budget isn't set, more interested in what I can get
<gord> novatech don't do good build quality in my experience of buying one thing from them
<gord> which makes me an expert
<directhex> that's p45 territory isn't it?
<directhex> wife's is g33
<Azelphur> ikonia: you can get i7 boards reasonably cheap now
<ikonia> this isn't a performance whore, so doesn't have to be leading edge
<ikonia> just solid,
<ikonia> I'm lookin on scan at the moment
<ikonia> looking
<Azelphur> you want a second hand one? :D
<ikonia> new or second hand
<directhex> yeah, p45 is the only living chipset for s755
<ikonia> not really bothered
<popey>  /join #ubuntu-swapshop
<brobostigon> see you all later, have fun.bye-
<ikonia> popey: that can't exist !
 * Azelphur has an Asus Striker 2 Formula with 8GB of DDR2 800Mhz RAM and a Q6600 @ 2.4ghz on the table next to him
<popey> 01 811 8055
<popey> iirc
<directhex> wait, nope, p45 is gone
<directhex> it's into "only embedded gpu etc" ranges like g33
<ikonia> Azelphur: that may tick the box, is it for sale ?
<Azelphur> yea, that's my old PC :D
<popey> \o/ win
<ikonia> q6600 used to be very cool
<Azelphur> it also has an 8800GT graphics card, and a 250GB hard drive
<ikonia> Azelphur: how many nics on it
<Azelphur> no case, though
<Azelphur> it has 2 onboard network devices
<ikonia> don't want graphics cards or disks or anything like that
<ikonia> hang on, let me check it out on line
<mungojerry> popey, wikipedia tells me thats the seconds series phone number
<directhex> wife has an e6850 iirc, made more sense for her than the q6600
<ikonia> annoying, nforce chipset
<ikonia> not sure if I want that
<mungojerry> "The telephone number for the first series of the show was 01 288 8055.  This number was also used for many other BBC phone-in events, with the  result that on one occasion a young caller trying to reach Swap Shop instead got through to a phone-in with the then Prime Minister James Callaghan."
<directhex> ikonia, market's flooded with intel chipsetted gigabytes in that market.
<Azelphur> ikonia: *shrug* I ran Ubuntu on it for years flawlessly
<ikonia> looks solid though, ticking all the boxes
<Azelphur> wine gaming and stuff
<ikonia> Azelphur: I won't be running ubuntu and the support of the chipset is quite important
<Azelphur> ah
<ikonia> Azelphur: just researching
<ikonia> directhex: are they much cop ?
<directhex> ikonia, intel boards for your cpu: http://www.scan.co.uk/Shop/Computer-Hardware/All/Motherboards-Intel/357/130/574/611
<Azelphur> I've got a couple of people interested in buying the whole lot, so if they fall through I'll send it in your direction :p
 * mungojerry wonders if intel will buy the trolltech guys
<ikonia> Â£34 !!!! my word
<mungojerry> "intel said its partner Nokia dropped the MeeGo operating system after Microsoft offered "incredible" amounts of money for the phonemaker to switch to Windows but it would find new partners for MeeGo."
<ikonia> I can get an ok asus board for Â£38 !!! that's mental
<Azelphur> ikonia: if it's your first built it's a good idea to buy your stuff from scan, that's what I did
<Azelphur> they do insurance against accidental damage during install
<Azelphur> so if you drop it while installing it they'll replace it for free basically
<ikonia> Azelphur: not first build, just being lazy doing research
<Azelphur> :)
<directhex> Azelphur, ikonia knows his stuff
<directhex> well
<directhex> knew, maybe? :p
<popey> hehe mungojerry
<Azelphur> :)
<mungojerry> does anyone know if it's possible to create clickable TOC in an openoffice doc as resulting pdf?
<mungojerry> s/as/and
<dwatkins> it should be, since PDF supports this, mungojerry
<ikonia> ha ha
<ikonia> just a bit rusty on the current hardware wizard stuff
<ikonia> is it worth going to the I7 platform ?
<daubers> Blasted poxy SCSI cables
<popey> my boss has an core i thing laptop
<popey> he seems happy with it
<popey> 8 cores, 12GB RAM
<popey> insane laptop
<directhex> ikonia, is it a hardcore box?
<ikonia> but it won't be hammered hard
<ikonia> nah
<ikonia> it will host a few kvm vm's though
<directhex> encrypted?
<ikonia> nah
<dwatkins> popey: I have a core i7 with 8GB RAM
<ikonia> at home so no risk
<dwatkins> popey: a laptop, that is
<popey> hehe
<popey> can't see myself buying another laptop anytime soon
<popey> cant justify it
<dwatkins> I can run several virtual machines without noticing a slowdown, which is really handy
<ikonia> to run a couple of vm's do I really need to move to the I7 platform, I don't think so (but I don't know)
<ikonia> rats, just found the perfect board but it only supports 4GB ram
<ikonia> cool, the lesser model supports both ddr3 and ddr2, and in ddr2 mode it supports 8GB
<directhex> there's no i7 no laptops!
<directhex> just rebadged i5!
<directhex> argh!
<dwatkins> directhex: oh?
<danfish> ikonia: i've a laptop with a mere i3 4gb of RAM, and encryption, and two VM's - W7 and natty, running just fine
<dwatkins> ikonia: I also run VMs on a core2duo with 4 GB RAM
<directhex> dwatkins, if you're using memory in multiples of 2 not 3, it's i5!
<directhex> danfish, the key with encryption is aesni, which brand new chips (rather than fast ones) have
<popey> directhex: what does my bosses laptop have then with 12GB RAM?
<dwatkins> directhex: I'm just going by the computer's own description of its own CPU
<directhex> dwatkins, you trust *intel* to know about intel models? foolish boy!
<directhex> popey, a desktop cpu, probably
<directhex> nope, judging by dell's pages it's common enough with an i7 8xx (i5)
<popey> ah
<danfish> directhex: didn't know that - is aesni 'listed' in /proc/cpuinfo?
<ikonia> wolfdale or yorkfield cpu's ? I assume wolfdate
<ikonia> dale
<ikonia> o, they are only duo, yorkfield it is
<directhex> danfish, "aes" in /proc/cpuinfo
<directhex> danfish, may need enabling in the bios. if you have pclmulqdq you likely have access to aesni
 * gord approved a merge into unity today that lets you have a fully transparent panel, its sooo pretty
<popey> :(
<ikonia> the ammount of stuff scan has on Pre order awaiting ETA is realling annoying
 * popey hands ikonia an ebuyer link
<gord> popey, no chance of you grabbing alpha one and upgrading that, skipping xserver updates?
<ikonia> ahhh got it covered, it's ok
<ikonia> not in a massive urgency as still waiting for centos 6
<shauno> a bit late, but i7 is happy with 12.  it is a multiple of 3.
<Azelphur> I use 12GB with my I7, 3x4 :)
<popey> gord: thats quite a ballsache
<mungojerry> national express have emailed me to say that today there will be a full compliment of carriages on the service today
<mungojerry> grammar nazi wonders if i need to pay them
<dogmatic69> i want to get a ssd but dont feel like reinstalling everything, is there a way to copy everything from one drive to the other
<gord> popey, i agree, but its an option
<danfish> directhex: tx :)
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: scroll up ;) it's been discussed plenty today
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: dd
<dwatkins> o.O Azelphur
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: :O
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: :?
<Azelphur> what?
<dwatkins> Are you seriously suggesting dd as a means to migrate data, Azelphur?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: sure, I've done it before when want to clone a hard drive
 * mgdm seconds dd
<dwatkins> I agree it could be used if you happen to have two identical disks, but that's unlikely when switching from platters to SSD
<shauno> it's almost sane when the drives are identical
<popey> gord iirc i had issues with alpha 1, so i actually had to install 10.10 and upgrade
<mgdm> I've done it from an 80GB disk to a 500GB disk
<mungojerry> OT: has anyone ever been to a school reunion?
<popey> yes
<mgdm> I then used parted to resize the partitions
<mgdm> job done
<dwatkins> I guess you ended up with a single 80 GB partition, mgdm
<Azelphur> mgdm: indeed, that's what I do
<mungojerry> how did it go? is it mainly bragging?
<ikonia> popey: Azelphur directhex big thanks for the input
<popey> np
<Azelphur> :)
<dwatkins> I wouldn't want to rely on resizing, and would prefer to have a second copy of the data
<directhex> pretty sure i still owe ikonia a beer
<dogmatic69> i was thinking livedisk + sudo cp /* ... but the permissions would be borked im sure
<mgdm> dwatkins: No - 4 partitions (1 recovery, 1 Windows, 2 ext3)
<mgdm> Oh, and a swap
<popey> if only my toshiba supported more than 3.x GB RAM :(
<popey> stupid intel chipset
<ikonia> directhex: I think I owe you a few, we are more than even
<Azelphur> yay, got my HTC Desire Z working again after flashing a ROM from a broken SD card
<mungojerry> azelphur is that one with the keyboard
<mgdm> dwatkins: grub moved across too, so when the DD was finished I swapped the drive in and the laptop booted straight away
<Azelphur> :D
<mgdm> zero complications whatsoeever
 * mungojerry has an htc desire (no Z or S), but still likes it
<directhex> waiting for PreÂ³
<ikonia> directhex: the android / blackberry style phone you linked to the other day looks interesting
<ikonia> looks a good combo of solid OS and handset
<directhex> ikonia, still pissed with your fruitphone?
<ikonia> I accept it as the best of a bed bunch
<ikonia> not pleased, but not displeased,
<ikonia> I find some of the lock down offensive
<ikonia> but best of a bad bunch sum it up reasonably well
<ikonia> I regret swapping from the blackberry physical hand set, but blackberry OS 6 is a disgrace
<ikonia> I regret swapping from the nokia hand set, but symbian....is comical
<directhex> i think android is unstoppable... i don't think it's good, but it's unstoppable.
<mungojerry> i'm amazed that so many people use blackbery
<directhex> symbian was a corpse 5 years ago
<ikonia> didn't leave me much option
<directhex> WP7 is more locked down than iphone
<ikonia> directhex: and you'll remember me ranting at it for about 5 years
<directhex> blackberry... i need to be convinced it has a future, and isn't just pretty symbian
<ikonia> the handset I had was amazing, the best there is, the OS.....well, a disgrace
<directhex> webos... i don't know how rosy its future is, but HP are going all-out with it
<ikonia> directhex: didn't care if blackberry had a long term future needed something "now" the apps on it are much better than they where, but blackberry OS is a bug fest that you can't trust
<directhex> and webos is my favourite of the bunch
<ikonia> it's too infant for me at this moment
<directhex> fair enough
<ikonia> I am interested in the android+blackberry handset you posted though, that looks like it could kill the fruit device for me
<directhex> ikonia, which device?
<ikonia> the white blackberry looking prototype device you posted from HTC with android on
<directhex> wait, the salsa?
<directhex> um, chacha
<directhex> http://www.htc.com/uk/product/chacha/overview.html
<ikonia> that's it
<mungojerry> android needs a bigger screen really
<directhex> preÂ³ for me. unless it's o2-only, in which case screw o2 in the ear. http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre3/
<mungojerry> ikonia, you would prefer chacha to http://www.htc.com/uk/product/desirez/overview.html ?
<popey> phones with facebook buttons
<popey> eww
<directhex> popey, i know :|
<daubers> directhex: I made a spinny ball in the palm pdk the other day
<popey> i made a bouncy cube on the iphone sdk the other day :D
<directhex> popey, not even the facebookiest device! INQ are making android even facebookier
<ikonia> mungojerry: nah, sliding bricks are not my think
<directhex> daubers, no PDK for linux yet :(
<ikonia> pre looks like blackberry tourch
<ikonia> torch
<daubers> directhex: no :( But I need socket access for what I'm trying to achieve, so used it on the aluminium evil box
<directhex> ikonia, or vice versa. e.g. the blackberry playbook is a total ripoff of webos
<mungojerry> htc are the new nokia :P
<ikonia> yes, true
<ikonia> @directhex
<daubers> WebOS strikes me as a very good tablet OS tbh
<daubers> Be quite interested in the touchbook
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> how do I check which packages have recently been updated?
<directhex> ikonia, ultimately, android feels a bit... glued together. kinda like the typical linux desktop, to an extent. webos experience is smoother and fruitier, but comes out of the box with root access running a real GNU userland
<popey> pr0ph3t: look in software centre
<popey> there is a history option
<ikonia> directhex: sounds promising, I've stayed away from android for the reason you've just said
<popey> directhex: how is that practically useful?
<popey> in a "real world, its useful to have GNU userland on a phone" type way?
<pr0ph3t> popey, thanks
<directhex> popey, it makes porting apps to the device much much easier
<directhex> popey, it has "real" linux with linux libs you can develop against or supplement
<popey> right
<popey> what practically would someone port to a phone?
<ikonia> I guess it depends how active development is
<ikonia> and maintained
<directhex> popey, libs more than apps.
<popey> I mean people tell me its ace to have highly portable devices
<popey> but evolution / firefox etc are just not cut out for that size/spec device
<ikonia> if it falls to the total unmaintained or conflicting state of a lot of the current Linux packages, there will be trouble
<mungojerry> in a tablet context , it could mean a lot
<daubers> popey: Means it would be relativley easy to take something like shotwell and have a mobile version of it (depending on how well shotwell is built)
<directhex> popey, consider every lib you might use for development.
<shauno> evo still wouldn't like tablets.  it barely tolerates netbooks.
<directhex> popey, for perspective, webos uses libpurple (pidgin core) for its IM client
<popey> i dont envisage many desktop apps making that transition
<mungojerry> a lightweight one like postler though ?
<popey> that makes sense directhex
<directhex> ships with Qt4
<directhex> ffmpeg for media
<directhex> also gstreamer
<mungojerry> gpodder would be useful for managing podcasts across devices
<gord> http://i.imgur.com/QK6hM.png - how are we supposed to market ubuntu in new zealand?
<directhex> libjpeg, libexif, libflac
<mungojerry> gord, that's OK purple =/= aubergine ;)
<daubers> gord: Quick! Trademark the colour black! No-one can have a black out without a licence
<directhex> hell, webos uses ubuntu's Upstart init system
<directhex> vpnc for Cisco VPN support
<davmor2> gord: haha!
<mungojerry> webos is a dodgy name. i never tried out pclinuxOS on the basis of it's lame name
<jpds> gord: aubergine.
<davmor2> gord: you gonna point that out to legal :D
<directhex> alog mungojerry's lines, it has libgpod
<ikonia> directhex: I'll be watching with interest how it progresses
<mungojerry> directhez, how does it compare with meego
<ikonia> directhex: be interesting of comercial businesses, eg: tomtom pickup development for it
<directhex> mungojerry, it's shipping, meego isn't?
<mungojerry> intel have other ideas apparently
<directhex> i can't really risk talking about meego btw, other than in broad terms
<ikonia> ?
<ikonia> risk talking about it ?
<mungojerry> in case u get upset?
<popey> he works for collabora
<popey> iirc?
<popey> he knows secret stuff :D
<mungojerry> heh
<shauno> or isn't sure what is and isn't secret, and terrified of lawyers.  that's when NDAs get annoying
<ikonia> he knows it sucks ?
<popey> he knows there will only ever be about 2 devices that run it
<directhex> aha, shauno has it
<popey> (badly)
<directhex> i don't know what's public and what isn't. i know our website says we are familiar with meego
<mungojerry> i would like a good real linux tablet OS..but while i wait, i'm getting to like android a lot
<ikonia> he's not taking the bait
<popey> gord: when are you going to port unity to the ipad?
<popey> hmm hmm!?
<mungojerry> he's waiting till ipad2 :P
<directhex> ipad2 is old hat, everyone's excited about ipad3
<davmor2> popey: your asuming he hasn't
<directhex> (no i'm not kidding, i don't know why)
<gord> hrm, someone got ubuntu running on the ipad didn't they?
<gord> i think linaro are porting compiz to opengles, so its not out of the realm of possibility
<andylockran> bye
<directhex> done for the day \o/
<ikonia> me too
<directhex> 3 hour day tomorrow \o/
<shauno> 3 hours would be perfect.  that's perfectly timed for breakfast, nap, lunch, then home again
<bigcalm> What's the last date you can have in 2038 with 32bit?
<shauno> 03:14:07 UTC on Tuesday, 19 January 2038
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> 1/1/2038 will do
<popey> "two digits for the year will do"
<bigcalm> Haha
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't worry though the world ends next year the Aztec's said so
<shauno> two digits will be fine; I'll be dead before it's a problem all over again :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: sorry, I'm not a Daily Mail reader
<popey> s/Aztech/Mayan/
<davmor2> popey: meh I was close
<popey> s/h//
<popey> :)
<popey> you were
<Azelphur> Is there any tool that allows you to easily browse the contents of a dd image? like the archive manager or something
<popey> mount it
<popey> if by "dd image" you mean, it's an image of a disk
<davmor2> damn you popey :D
<Azelphur> yea it's the image of a disk, mounting is long though :(
<popey> long?
<Azelphur> have to go into terminal, create a folder, look up the long command to mount it again >.>
<Azelphur> I just want to click it.
<popey> meh
<bigcalm> Long?
<jpds> The time you spent complaining, you could of done it by now.
 * popey walks away
<popey> +12
<bigcalm> jpds: ++
<Azelphur> jpds: except I find myself doing this regularly :)
<popey> I have already looked this up
<jpds> Azelphur: Script it.
<popey> before you finished typing
<popey> slacker
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=mount+a+dd+image
<Azelphur> so basically there isn't or you don't know :p
<Azelphur> telling me how to do something I already know which isn't the answer to my question is pointless :D
<popey> pack it in
<popey> seriously
<davmor2> Azelphur: save with .img at the end and then right click open with archive mounter iirc :)  done
<popey> also depends how the dd image was made
<Azelphur> davmor2: doesn't seem to work, I'll try running nautilus from a terminal to see if it says anything
<popey> whether it's an image of the disk or partition
<Azelphur> it's of the disk
<popey> the disk which was exhibiting brokenness?
<Azelphur> yea, the microsd
<Azelphur> I got most of the data I reckon, only like 6 bad sector errors
<davmor2> Azelphur: you know you dd the breakage in right :)
<Azelphur> indeed I do
<Azelphur> I know there may be data loss, but getting some of it back is better than none :)
<davmor2> Azelphur: that might be why there is issues mounting it
<popey> you tried ddrescue?
<Azelphur> popey: nope, there's not an amazing amount of stuff on there I need to keep
<popey> well, ddrescue (linked from the google search results above) may help
<Azelphur> cool
<popey> feel free to ignore me because I know nothing right.
<davmor2> popey:  can you fsck a .img file?
<Azelphur> I'll try that if I have issues with the image I have
<popey> davmor2: if you mount it rw, yeah
<popey> not sure you'd want to fsck it
<popey> Azelphur: make a copy of the image :)
<popey> then you can try lots of times
<popey> the beauty of images
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> if you double click a filesystem image the automounter should take care of it
<ali1234> it works for cd and dvd isos anyway
<Azelphur> yea, I use it with iso's all the time, doesn't seem to work with disk images though :(
<ali1234> it wont work with whole disk images
<ali1234> you need to use the partmapper for those
<popey> do you /91
<popey> bah
<ali1234> instead of the terrible instructions on ubuntu forums linked by popey, you can do this, which is much easier: http://tinyapps.org/docs/mount_partitions_from_disk_images.html
<popey> haha, I didnt link to any forums
<andylockran> guys, am I being dense?  http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/gutsy/man1/psimage.1gmt.html
<andylockran> where can I find that program?
<andylockran> *for lucid*
<andylockran> sorted
<andylockran> was hiding outside my path
<andylockran> anyhoo..
<andylockran> what's a good ps reader on ubuntu
 * daubers ponders heading home
<davmor2> andylockran: ps as in postscript,  if so evince should read it
<MartijnVdS> evening everyone
<jacobw> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jacobw> hows goes it?
<MartijnVdS> good, just ran 3.6 miles in 30 minutes :)
<MartijnVdS> (that means I'm faster than tonywhitmore :))
<jacobw> Oh wow
<jacobw> Solid ground or treadmill?
<jacobw> Ha, #ubuntu-uk race off
<MartijnVdS> solid ground
<MartijnVdS> I'm running 20km in 2 weeks
<MartijnVdS> as in.. in 2 weeks time, there is a 20km race
<MartijnVdS> (and I'm running it)
<jacobw> cool :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: last year, around this time, I couldn't run 5 minutes
<jacobw> :(
<penguin42> is it 'legal' to pass more parameters to a variadic function than it actually consumes?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: C?
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> I think it probably is
<MartijnVdS> likely, yes
<MartijnVdS> you might leak some memory
<penguin42> why?
<MartijnVdS> because those variables are pushed onto some kind of stack (I'd guess), space reclaimed when you va_end
<MartijnVdS> you know, reading those docs again
<MartijnVdS> va_end should do the Right Thing
<penguin42> I think it's the normal stack, so I think it should clean up
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: write a tiny program that does this 1000 times, check with valgrind :)
<daubers> Evening
<MartijnVdS> daubster
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Ah, if valgrind passes it must be right :-)
<MartijnVdS> ha http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg7ysmbynd1qz5vuso1_500.jpg
<daubers> blimey, it's a lot later than I thought it was
<MartijnVdS> daubers: it's 21:17 here :)
<penguin42> dah, I can see why oxygen-gtk has such a grim hack now
<MartijnVdS> oxygen-gtk?
<penguin42> yeh - oxygen theme for gtk apps
<penguin42> it's crashing amide for me, and I can see why, they've got a grim hack, but I can't see a less grim hack
<MartijnVdS> rm -rf, it's the only solution :)
<penguin42> yeh well I did disable it, and I thought I might be able to fix it - but the problem is gtk doesn't provide the useful interface it needs and is too fussy about the parameters to the routine it's using
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: rand(42) doesn't cut it? :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Not enough of the time
 * daubers drags out the wii fit
<andylockran> howdy all
<DJones> Nasty MS, blocking apps with open source licenses from their app store for winmo http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/17/microsoft_bans_opensource_windows_phone/
<andylockran> hmm, interesting
<andylockran> can kinf of understand avoiding gplv3 though
<Azelphur> DJones: don't worry, they'll come along and announce it's just a miscommunication
<Azelphur> and we're really nice
<DJones> Azelphur: Heh
<Azelphur> it's part of their "Do something evil, then say woa woa, you've got it all wrong, we're not evil honest"
<Azelphur> strategy.
<DJones> Azelphur: And they'll say the Windows 7 is actually released under the same license :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid14_gci1527534,00.html
<ali1234> this is much worse
<ali1234> do we have a backup plan for when you can't go on any major ISP unless your operating system has been certified as "healthy" by microsoft?
<ali1234> does ubuntu have any BBS software? fidonet etc?
<andylockran> BBS?
<DJones> andylockran: Bullitin Board Software
<DJones> I guess anyway
<DJones> !info papercut
<lubotu3> papercut (source: papercut): simple and extensible NNTP server. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.13-7ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 42 kB, installed size 480 kB
<DJones> Maybe not that then
<andylockran> phpBB ?
<DJones> ali1234: Not sure whether any of these are available but may help http://www.linuxlinks.com/Software/Internet/Communications/BBS/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BBS_software#Unix_and_compatible
<andylockran> is there an etherpad equivalent of a spreadsheet?
<tomfromdelmonte> anyone feel like givinng advice to a noob about running ubuntu server?
<andylockran> yeah sure
<andylockran> whats up tomfromdelmonte
<tomfromdelmonte> well, firstly im new to linux, is there a way i can put a gui on it?
<tomfromdelmonte> i have ubuntu deskto on another laptop
 * brobostigon-g1 is ircing from the pub.pub quiz. yay
<andylockran> haha
<andylockran> at the Fleur de Lis?
 * brobostigon-g1 scp's everyone real ale
<brobostigon-g1> reindeer
<andylockran> tomfromdelmonte: you're probably don't really want to put X on it - that's not generally done for servers.
<andylockran> tomfromdelmonte: what did you want to run?
<tomfromdelmonte> no idea...
<tomfromdelmonte> i just bought an old-ish hp proliant server
<tomfromdelmonte> just to learn about administering a server
<tomfromdelmonte> and add it to my cisco lab
<brobostigon-g1> boo. battery dying. :(
<tomfromdelmonte> thought i would try hosting some web stuff, maybe ftp
<popey> tomfromdelmonte: you could put a gui on it
<popey> tomfromdelmonte: or you could add a web based admin tool like webmin or ebox
<tomfromdelmonte> what is that?
<popey> web based admin tools :)
<tomfromdelmonte> is it a bit like remote desktop?
<popey> no
<tomfromdelmonte> will windows remote desktop work with ubuntu?
<popey> remote desktop controls the actual desktop gui
<tomfromdelmonte> and vice-versa?
<popey> depends what you mean by "work with"
<popey> you can remotely control windows servers/desktops from ubuntu, yes
<tomfromdelmonte> really?!!!
<popey> yes
<tomfromdelmonte> how does one do that
<popey> there's a client in applications -> internet
<popey> just put in the ip/host of the windows box and you can see its desktop
<popey> like... well, exactly like remote desktop :)
 * brobostigon-g1 scp's evryone a beer before his battery dies.
<andylockran> ta
<tomfromdelmonte> assuming u have redp enabled and an account on window?s machine, right
<popey> indeed
<brobostigon-g1> rdp
<tomfromdelmonte> ok so that works ubuntu>windows
<brobostigon-g1> rdp. yes
<tomfromdelmonte> but windows rdp wont let u ineract with an ubuntu desktop, right?
<popey> well
<popey> you can with vnc
<brobostigon-g1> ubuntu can do rdp aswll/
<brobostigon-g1> yes.
<popey> ubuntu has vnc server installed out of the box
<popey> and you can get vnc clients for windows
<tomfromdelmonte> vnc...
<popey> so you can remotely control ubuntu from windows
<tomfromdelmonte> is that open source?
<popey> yes, google it, its quite well known
<popey> yeah
<popey> free and easy to use too
<tomfromdelmonte> is it secure?
<popey> it can be :)
<tomfromdelmonte> lol it can be
<popey> you can tunnel vnc over ssh, but you dont have to
<tomfromdelmonte> but its not by default, right?
<popey> yeah
<brobostigon-g1> vnc was originally designed over in cambridge.
<tomfromdelmonte> so security is opt-in not opt-out
<popey> indeed
<tomfromdelmonte> sounds like facebook
<popey> but its very easy to implement :)
<brobostigon-g1> agreed
<popey> unlike facebook ;)
<brobostigon-g1> facebook can and is very open by default.
<popey> tomfromdelmonte: if you get any more questions, we tend to hang out here most days, so feel free to drop by any time :D
<popey> we're generally happy to try to answer any ubuntu related questions
<popey> and often answer questinos about cake, chickens, cheese, minecraft, trains and roundabouts too.
<tomfromdelmonte> well, i do like cheese
<tomfromdelmonte> in moderation of course
<tomfromdelmonte> im chatting to you from a backtrack 4 virtual machine right now
<penguin42> a what?
<tomfromdelmonte> im on a windows machine
<tomfromdelmonte> runing a linux distro is a vm
<tomfromdelmonte> i think its based on ubuntu
<popey> thats how a lot of people start out
<popey> yes, backtrack is ubuntu based
<tomfromdelmonte> lol i have to on this cuz its a work laptop
<tomfromdelmonte> they would go mad if i took windows off it and put linux on
<popey> :)
<tomfromdelmonte> i thought downloading backtrack would make me the worlds no.1 hacker
<popey> a common misconception
<tomfromdelmonte> lol yeah
<tomfromdelmonte> but at least it got me interested in linux
<popey> i thought playing minecraft would make me the best miner
<popey> look how that turned out
<tomfromdelmonte> what is minecraft?
<popey> a silly game
<tomfromdelmonte> lol, what games arent silly?
<tomfromdelmonte> i used to play runescape
<popey> this is somewhat more silly than most :)
<Baikonur> minecraft is a non-silly non-game
<tomfromdelmonte> how so ?
<Baikonur> it's a game asmuch as a pile of legos is a game
<tomfromdelmonte> i try to stay away from games unless they r educational
<Baikonur> i try to stay away from games, if they're educational
<tomfromdelmonte> the cisco subnetting game is pretty cool, for about 5 minutes
<andylockran> haha
<HazRPG> poke
<cbx33> hey peeps
<cbx33> wondering if you guys can help me with something
<cbx33> http://en.newinstance.it/2010/05/23/git-autocompletion-and-enhanced-bash-prompt/ - just added that PS1 prompt line to me bashrc
<cbx33> then i took it out again...well commented it
<cbx33> but now when i go down into subdirs they are all shown in the prompt line
<cbx33> I'm sure it didn't do that previously
<cbx33> or am I wrong
<cbx33> maybe I'm wrong
<HazRPG> \o
<dwatkins> cbx33: changes to the file may not be seen until you log out completely from the GUI
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> doh
<cbx33> bbiab then i guess
<dwatkins> I'm not certain, but it's worth checking
<andylockran> :)
<martin__> what the heck
<andylockran> whassup?
<bigcalm> Moon
<dwatkins> That's no moon.
<andylockran> ?
<HazRPG> a friend of mine from the other side of the globe just sent me this on facebook: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8d6JhOmcRE
<bigcalm> It's a spacestation
<bigcalm> HazRPG: this is why I have decent cans
 * bigcalm has a one man rave in his office
<HazRPG> decent cans?
<HazRPG> oh speakers :P?
<HazRPG> STOP!! Mobile disco time!
<bigcalm> No, cans are headphones
<HazRPG> ah ^^ new it was something speaker related
<bigcalm> +k
<HazRPG> knew*
<HazRPG> heh yeah
<bigcalm> HazRPG: http://cuth.eu/oonst
 * HazRPG looks for more crooooooooooooookerrrrrrs music
<HazRPG> bigcalm: xD
<andylockran> I have a log of the last 200000+ lines said in this IRC chatroom
<andylockran> that's a lot of useless data sitting there :)
<andylockran> and it takes up 14MB
<bigcalm> Text compresses well
<HazRPG> hamitron!!! \o/
 * HazRPG runs up and hugs him
<hamitron> :)
<andylockran> aww
 * andylockran group hungs
<hamitron> \o/
<HazRPG> -n*
<hamitron> much happening?
<HazRPG> I wonder how hard it would be to make a story using people's irc names...
<HazRPG> hamitron: you missed this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8d6JhOmcRE&fmt=18
<hamitron> ah, seems my internet filter blocks youtube
<hamitron> :/
<penguin42> HazRPG: We're a bit low on words
<HazRPG> penguin42: obviously it doesn't /just/ have to be irc names
<penguin42> oh
<HazRPG> HazRPG picks up a bag, and puts it into the hoover; wearing a funkyHat. He goes to grab choffee, for his MonsterKiller mug. He puts on his stereo, and plays a little Pendulum. Suddenly a SWAT team come out and requesting a bigcalm - because of the loud music!
<bigcalm> What the?
<HazRPG> well I tried...
<bigcalm> :)
<dutchie> you will really upset all these people you have highlighted for no reason now :)
<HazRPG> nah
<bigcalm> You distracted them (myself includded)
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> heh, just realised the riceball smileys I put on pidgin worked
<HazRPG> ã½(ï½`ç¿â²ï½)ï¾ <== creeper!
<HazRPG> did I scare him?
<popey> evening all!
<andylockran> howdy popey
 * andylockran is looking into self-repairing network-raid filesystems
<andylockran> am I ahead of the curve, or way behind?
<penguin42> self repairing?
<AlanBell> HazRPG: you could have worked a chicken into that somehow
<HazRPG> AlanBell: really how
<HazRPG> ?*
<andylockran> penguin42: i.e. if one half disappears, and you bring it back up - it doesn't set itself to primary
<penguin42> andylockran: I think dbd is supposed to do that these days
<andylockran> drbd looks like a candidate
<HazRPG> popey: evening popey :)
<penguin42> andylockran: Yeh, I used that years ago and at the time it really required you to figure out who was primary when you started stuff back up; I think it's got smarter now
<andylockran> penguin42: is that what you meant?
<penguin42> yeh
<andylockran> in the kernel from 2.6.33
<andylockran> I'm running 2.6.27
<penguin42> there are modules/source packages I think
<penguin42> andylockran: It's excellent - I ran a Xen pair on top of it for ages
<andylockran> penguin42: it does look neat
<andylockran> just wish I had a load of test servers to run it on
<penguin42> VMs :-)
<andylockran> yeah, I'm running openVZ
<penguin42> andylockran: Something else to look at is 'sheepdog' - not sure how far that got, it's supposed to be  a distributed thingamy
<andylockran> the problem I have is that I'm not particularly CS minded
<penguin42> probably best to stick with things that already work then
<andylockran> i.e. - I want a) syncronous writes - and am not sure the effect that'd have on performance (though I imagine quite a lot)
<penguin42> yeh synchronous writes will suck
<andylockran> for low-traffic email they might be ok though
<andylockran> it's for storing IMAP folders, so if one server crashes the other can still serve.. or am I thinking of this wrong?
<penguin42> Ah, distributed imap stuff; I don't know how to do that - I think it's pretty magic
<penguin42> andylockran: I've not done it, but I think some of the imap servers will store stuff in databases, and you can get databases to run in backed up pairs and .... yeh I'm not quite sure
<andylockran> In all honesty, most of the stuff I'm setting up to run doesn't need to be fault tolerant, but other things I do will need to be
<andylockran> so this is an exercise in using technology that I expect to use in the near future, and using it for our internal systems so that we'll be familiar with it.
<penguin42> yeh, I think that might be one of the hardest cases
<andylockran> yeah - I think so :(
<andylockran> I can work out how to setup a redundant SAN easily enough
<andylockran> I say 'easily enough' - I mean there's software and howtos on it.
<andylockran> Just wondering whether that may be the best option, and simply NFS it out to servers that would require shared storage
<andylockran> Can't quite work out the pros and cons
<penguin42> redundant NFS isn't trivial
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-18
<HazRPG> is launchpad only for ubuntu code?
<dutchie> no
<dutchie> there are lots of upstream projects on there too
<HazRPG> cool
<Azelphur> ali1234 / exobuzz you guys seem knowledgable on microSD, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Patriot-Signature-microSDHC-memory-adapter/dp/B004H8FTCU/ref=sr_1_55?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1297986211&sr=1-55
<Azelphur> any opinions on that? it seems to be a class 10 32GB, but no reviews I can see to judge it by
<ali1234> all i know about microsd is that the speed is usually limited by the controller not the card, and in linux they often use PIO due to crap drivers, and you shouldn't use it unless there is absolutely no other alternative
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> USB will beat it in almost every situation
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, this is for my phone though
<ali1234> well what are you going to use it for?
<Azelphur> Ubuntu on the phone
<ali1234> don't waste Â£75 to find out it's crap
<HazRPG> hmm, why isn't my picture showing up on launchpad?
<ali1234> get a 8GB class 4 and try it
<Azelphur> i have a class 10 8gb
<Azelphur> so i should try with that
<ali1234> there's not much point using a 32gb for a ubuntu install on some android phone, because you'll install it and find out it's half finished and nothing works, and then give up on it :)
<ali1234> and it really is half finished - htc are releasing phones faster than the htc-linux can keep up
<Azelphur> ali1234: apparently it runs the stock Ubuntu ARM now
<Azelphur> in a chroot
<ali1234> on a custom kernel, yes
<ali1234> and there are only about 4 people working on that kernel
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I'm interested in running mythtv on it
<ali1234> and there's about 20 different htc phones, and they just released 5 more last week
<Azelphur> although I doubt I'll get far :P
<ali1234> mythtv won't work, there is no video acceleration under X11
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> and no hardware decoding support
<ali1234> you won't be able to run the new unity either
<ali1234> maybe if it has a software mode, but then it will be super slow
<ali1234> meego has the same problem - it requires accelerated graphics too
<Azelphur> :p
<andylockran> some stuff is so clever
<HazRPG> o/ Lunchie
<HazRPG> he'll be back though ^^
<HazRPG> restarting into ubuntu if I recall
<HazRPG> btw, Lunchie is a good friend of mine from college days... managed to get him to hit up irc :)
<HazRPG> you should all say hi when he comes back :)
<ali1234> Azelphur: the chroot that runs along side android requires you to run everything in vnc too
<ali1234> you can imagine how much stuff that breaks
<HazRPG> really?
<Azelphur> ali1234: why would that break things?
<ali1234> well VNC doesn't support 3d acceleration either
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<ali1234> so even if there was a driver, you wouldn't be able to use it
<ali1234> plus lots of apps don't redraw the scree properly in vnc
<Azelphur> I'm trying it for shits n giggles on my 8GB card now anyway
<Azelphur> so I'll know how well it runs soon enough :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: feel like helping me mess about with this? :D http://pastebin.com/cNe3ZZ2H
<Azelphur> I get problems on line 10, I've remarked the error in
<Azelphur> it's weird because /sdcard/ubuntu/ubuntu.img exists, and /data/local/mnt exists
<ball> brb, time to stick the kettle on.
<ali1234> Azelphur: modprobe loop
<Azelphur> ali1234: modprobe: chdir(2.6.32.28-cyanogenmod-g58d929e): No such file or directory
<shauno> I'm curious why you're only mknod loop2? does loop0 & 1 already exist?
<Azelphur> I didn't write the script
<Azelphur> I'm just trying to make it work :D
<shauno> be worth checking they're there then, because I don't see anything in the mount line that'd force it to use /dev/loop2
<ali1234> i suggest you write your own script :)
 * Azelphur cries
<ali1234> btw, where you get this script?
<Azelphur> http://androidclone.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=23&page=1
<shauno> hm, infact, loop2 *is* loop0.  that's fun
<shauno> (loop0 is blockspecial 7,0)
<niknak_> anybody else had trouble syncing tomboy notes recently? not used it in a while but both my machines not refuse to sync?
<Azelphur> ali1234: what good is writing my own script if I can't get loopback mounting to work :P
<ali1234> androidclone.com?
<ali1234> never heard of it
<Azelphur> ali1234: hehe, so any ideas on how I'd get loop working?
<ali1234> well modprobe failed because you don't have the modules directory for thekernel you are running
<ali1234> so you have to get them and install them
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> you're pretty much going to have to learn about how modprobe works, how the kernel works, how chroot works, and how to bootstrap ubuntu. at this point you'll be capable of doing this without someone else's script
<nucc1> possibly dumb question here :p is it possible for me to swap out the core 2 duo in my laptop for a core i5?
<ali1234> no, they use different slots
<nucc1> :(
<nucc1> wonder if its possible to get a newer board. lemme check manufacturer
<Azelphur> ali1234: I see :P
<ali1234> maybe you don't need to modprobe loop
<ali1234> maybe $kit/ubuntu.img doesn't exist?
<ali1234> script uses variables like $kit and $mnt but does not define them
<Azelphur> ali1234: it does define them?
<ali1234> what you pastebinned doesn't
<Azelphur> export kit=/sdcard/ubuntu
<Azelphur> line 3
<ali1234> oh yeah
<ali1234> so does it exist?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> and /data/local/mnt exists too
<Azelphur> hense my confusion at the no such file or directory error
<Azelphur> but I suppose that's from it trying to modprobe loop but I don't have it
<ali1234> you commented modprobe ext2?
<Azelphur> so modprobe is throwing no such directory
<Azelphur> ali1234: nope, it came like that
<ali1234> it is probably failing because it can't modprobe it
<Azelphur> yea,
<shauno> well that's curious.  real curious.  wordpress just sent me a "someone requested a password reset" for localhost
<ali1234> uh oh
<ali1234> time to check all the logs very carefully
<shauno> probably easier just to nuke it.  forgot that was still installed there for something
<shauno> a bit of a slap on the wrist that I forgot to firewall ipv6 tho; that's not reachable otherwise
<shauno> hah, no, nm.  apparently that was me, back in december.  messing with postfix on my laptop has just emptied out a queue of mail that it's been waiting to send since the beginning of time
<shauno> /facepalm
<nucc1> i've got a Natty
<nucc1> sorry
<nucc1> i've got a Natty VM that says '/' is not ready yet or not present, but i can drop to a recovery console and ls fine in '/'
<nucc1> what could be the problem?
<szymon_g> hi
<HazRPG> hey
<szymon_g> \o
<szymon_g>  |
<szymon_g>  /\
<szymon_g> almost :~
<shauno> morning
<szymon_g> evening for some :)
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> shauno: morning dude
<HazRPG> hmm, seem to be having trouble changing any settings on wiki.ubuntu.com (my account settings)
<HazRPG> keeps saying that the email already belongs to somebody else
<shauno> ooh, 10.04.2 is out.  doesn't look like my mirror's noticed yet tho
<shauno> nice timing tho, I have a reboot scheduled later this month :)
<Myrtti> *sighÃ
<HazRPG> Myrtti: sup?
<HazRPG> shauno: how often do you schedule reboots?
<exobuzz> Azelphur, you got a reply regarding the microsd right ? i dont actually know much about them anyway, so can't advise. :)
<Myrtti> HazRPG: my life just sucks the normal amount for the situation
<HazRPG> Myrtti: Hmm, I can relate...
<HazRPG> Myrtti: anything I can do to make you feel better/help/advise/etc?
<Myrtti> HazRPG: I doubt it really
<HazRPG> wanna talk about it?
<MooDoo> hello all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> MooDoo, MartijnVdS: \o
 * HazRPG hugs Myrtti
<MooDoo> :)
<DJones> Morning all
<HazRPG> morning DJones
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> you meant to be online twice Lunchie, Lunchie1?
<HazRPG> also, hey dude :)
<HazRPG> heh, just thought he might have left it running last night
<DJones> Hi HazRPG
<dwatkins> hiya
 * DJones debates buying a new laptop, 1600x900 resolution, 4gb ram, ubuntu compatible (preferably OTB)
<DJones> Any suggestions
<dwatkins> one touch backup?
<DJones> Grr, to quick on the enter key, any suggestions on make & model
<DJones> With a reasonable price
<dwatkins> I like the ASUS Eee series, but they're mainly very small.
<DJones> I'm looking for something as a main pc, so the eee series would be too small (assuming you mean the Eeepc's)
<popey> ThinkPad or MacBook Pro.
<popey> End of story :D
<DJones> popey: Just looking at Thinkpads
<danfish> DJones: budgie?
<danfish> sorry, budget
<popey> Tweet!
<DJones> Looking at about Â£500 ish, but could change
<danfish> <-- twit ;)
<DJones> Thinkpads seem to be limited to 1366x768 looking at the lenovo website
<AlanBell> is 1600x900 a real resolution?
<DJones> AlanBell: Widescreen 16:9
<AlanBell> sure, I just never saw one with that before
<DJones> AlanBell: This sort of thing http://www.acerdirect.co.uk/Aspire_7551_Windows_7_laptop__LX.PXE02.055/version.asp
<AlanBell> 1920x1080 is quite common as it is HD
<HazRPG> DJones: correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it almost impossible to find any any true 16:9 devices?
<AlanBell> I used to have a laptop with 1600x1200 which was awesome
<DJones> AlanBell: yeah, I'd like 1920x1080 but prices seem to be out the budget
<AlanBell> before they all started coming out with Shortscreen aspect ratio
<AlanBell> Widescreen is a misnomer
<DJones> AlanBell: I'm still using a 1600x900 laptop dell inspiron 8100
<HazRPG> hmm, see there's widescreen and then there's widerscreen... its very confusing at times
<popey> yeah, i loved my dell 1600x1200
<HazRPG> half the movies I own still have a strip at the top and bottom because they use a different widescreen to the widescreen I have on my tv :/
<popey> shame it died :(
<AlanBell> I had to give mine back when I was made redundant :(
 * HazRPG doesn't see the point in widescreen
<DJones> I can get an idea looking at pricerunner to filter based on various criteria
<HazRPG> the eye can only focus on a certain amount in front of it, the rest is a blur... regular screen was so much better imho
<HazRPG> (currently using 2 full-screen's right now :D)
<HazRPG> and before you say that's technically wide-screen - it is and isn't, because I can only see one screen properly at a time, the other just gets used for entertainment or dragging stuff out of the way
 * popey spies MooDoo resubscribing to the list
<HazRPG> MooDoo: you mean he actually unsubbed!?
<HazRPG> popey* even
<MooDoo> BLUSH
<bigcalm> Good morning kiddies :)
<AlanBell> popey: how many subscribers are there?
<popey> 695
 * HazRPG runs up and hugs bigcalm
<HazRPG> popey: :o
<bigcalm> Heh
<AlanBell> five more for the big 700
<bigcalm> uupc subs?
<popey> no, mailing list
<bigcalm> Ah
<HazRPG> it should go up to 696 soon, I think another one of my friends is thinking about it :P
<bigcalm> Listening to Swede Mason isn't doing my hangover any good :)
<HazRPG> brb, going to the corner shop for some goodies ^^
<bigcalm> Is it possible to have css only for webkit browsers without agent sniffing?
<dutchie> why would you want to do that? :)
<dutchie> graceful degradation etc
<bigcalm> Because I can't get rid of some space in chrome & safari without messing up all other browsers
<dutchie> you can do stuff like -webkit-foo i think
 * bigcalm digs
<Oli``> Anybody know if there's a PPA for the beta nvidia drivers? Like a beta version of the X-Swat PPA
<dutchie> Oli``: there's xorg-edgers
<bigcalm> Does Opera use webkit?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> it uses its own renderer
<bigcalm> It's rendering correctly, so I think not
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta :)
<diplo-> popey, who was that mobile company you we're on about the other week
<diplo-> just sim cards and no support
<diplo-> please
<popey> diplo-: http://popey.me/g4cv64
<popey> giffgaff :)
<diplo-> That's it! Been trying to remember it
<diplo-> thanks!
<popey> np
<diplo-> There you go, you have a referral :)
<popey> :D
<popey> ta
<dutchie> hmm, i wonder if giffgaff would be worth it for me
<MartijnVdS> hm, it looks nice.. we need something like this in the Netherlands :)
<HazRPG> back
<HazRPG> I has duff beer :P
<HazRPG> postman has just been :)
<HazRPG> http://i51.tinypic.com/16gbadw.jpg
<JamesTait> Joyeux Vendredi, mes amis!
<daubers> Morning
<HazRPG> JamesTait: BonneÂ Vendredi,Â Ã  vous aussi!
<JamesTait> HazRPG: Merci. :)
<JamesTait> I really should learn French again. And Spanish and German. And finally learn Afrikaans. Most of what I used to know of any of those languages has leaked out of my head over the years.
<dogmatic69> JamesTait: why would you want to learn Afrikaans?
<HazRPG> JamesTait: Votre bienvenue.
<HazRPG> took me a while to remember that O.o
<JamesTait> dogmatic69: My wife is South African and we still have family over there. It comes in handy when we visit.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Afrikaans is cool :)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Especially if you're Dutch :)
<HazRPG> JamesTait: I know english and arabic, and only reason I know some french words is because they use it in arabic too for some things ^^
<dogmatic69> JamesTait: tell them to learn a bit of english
 * dogmatic69 is from sa
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: I'm not surprised to hear you say that. ;)
<JamesTait> dogmatic69: Well, Afrikaans is one of SA's 12 officially recognised languages, right? Then again, I don't think I'll be learning Zulu, Sotho, Xhosa....
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: I'm guessing you mean South Africa and not Saudi Arabia :P
<dogmatic69> JamesTait: 11 last time i checked
<JamesTait> Oh well, close. :)
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: something like that ;)
 * HazRPG use to live in saudi arabia
<HazRPG> most of them type it as SA even though technically speaking it should be KSA
<dogmatic69> JamesTait: just learn some Funigalore, not sure on the spelling
<dogmatic69> that will get you around the whole of southern africa
<JamesTait> Languages interest me. I like to compare and contrast them.
<dogmatic69> Funigalore is a merge of all the languages from sa, zimbabwe, mozambique etc
<dwatkins> The 2-letter designation for South Africa is ZA
<dogmatic69> was due to the mining back in the day
<dogmatic69> yes
<dwatkins> I'm guessing that's because of the Afrikaans word for South
<JamesTait> ZuidAfrika, IIRC?
<dogmatic69> zuit afrika
<dogmatic69> soemthing like that
<dogmatic69> its the dutch work for south
<dogmatic69> Afrikaans would be Suid-Afrika
<dogmatic69> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuid-Afrika
<MartijnVdS> Afrikaans rappers have been becoming more popular in the Netherlands since the world championship
<hoover> mornin all
<HazRPG> morning
<HazRPG> wow, this amp drink really has a nice kick to it!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if you want an amp, put your finger in a wall socket ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: now that's cruel :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it'll have a nice kick to it
<HazRPG> hehe, wouldn't say nice :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ok, but a kick anyway
<screen-x> morning :)
<MartijnVdS> \o screen-x
<HazRPG> morning screen-x
<screen-x> hello MartijnVdS and HazRPG, whats happening this morning?
<MartijnVdS> (human) language discussion
<HazRPG> currently watching a video about the history of dreamcast xD
<HazRPG> and drinking amp, duff will be my next drink after that - so not a lot here :P
<HazRPG> http://i51.tinypic.com/16gbadw.jpg
<screen-x> HazRPG: low sugar diet ;-)
<HazRPG> ;p
<Myrtti> imagine a gallstone patient on low carb diet
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: my language question: why isn't postjudice a valid word, as the opposite of prejudice?
<Myrtti> I can, and it's funny
<daubers> screen-x: Surely thats just judging?
<screen-x> daubers: yeah, but with emphasis on having sufficient information to make a good judgement
<HazRPG> wow, I can't believe that was the main reason the dreamcast flopped
<HazRPG> apparently it was because it didn't have a dvd drive
<mungojerry> hazrpg i thought the reason was the PS1 was great
<HazRPG> mungojerry: nope, you've gotta remember the japanese are the biggest drive for gaming - they're obsessed with it
<HazRPG> mungojerry: the dreamcast did well in the first 2 years, more so then the PSX
<mungojerry> i still want to play shenmue
<mungojerry> i remember my friend telling me about it and it sounded cool
<gord> its the best fork lift truck driving simulator i ever played
<HazRPG> the dreamcast sold 300 thousand units in the 2 years, and psx had only sold 100 thousand
<HazRPG> gord: xD
<HazRPG> gord: come on, it had an amazing story
<HazRPG> mungojerry: the ps2 was apparently the cheapest (and one of few) dvd players in japan
<HazRPG> so the majority of people bought it in japan for the fact that they could watch dvd's with it
<gord> no, it doesn't have an amazing story, i actually really like the game but i can't say it has an amazing story ;)
<directhex> where can i find some sailors?
<HazRPG> directhex: harbour ;)
<HazRPG> gord: I was disappointed that shenmue 3 wasn't going to be made :(
<directhex> the thing about shenmue is it's a 2-hour scrolling beat 'em up about revenge, fleshed out with 14 hours of wandering around buying virtual capsule toys
<directhex> ending very excitingly in getting on a boat
<HazRPG> directhex: heh, and getting lost and not actually knowing where to go!
<gord> i liked wandering around talking to people :) thats what makes it fun
<directhex> which leads to a 2-hour scrolling beat 'em up about revenge, fleshed out with 14 hours of playing Lucky Hit
<gord> the fighting sure was not fun
<gord> or the quick time events
<directhex> shenmue *invented* the QTE!
<HazRPG> gord: really? I loved it
<gord> shenmue did invent it yes, those fools, they did not know what they would bring upon us
<directhex> remember, shenmue came from a beat 'em up developer.
<gord> no longer can i take a sip of a drink when a video game enters a cutscene, because it'll throw some qte event at me that ends up with orange juice everywhere
<HazRPG> I could have sworn qte was used in other things before shenmue :/
<gord> it had, but it wasn't called qte and wasn't used in the way that shenmue did it
<directhex> HazRPG, the *name* comes from shenmue's manual. they were pioneering!
<HazRPG> gord: I can visualise that xD
 * HazRPG burst out into laughter
<HazRPG> directhex: this is true...
<HazRPG> gord: agreed
<directhex> ultimately, shenmue was *very* slow, and most punters don't want something like that
<gord> beautiful game too
<HazRPG> directhex: was still a great hit though shockingly
<directhex> HazRPG, not really, it cost way more to make than they recouped
<directhex> HazRPG, one of the most expensive games in history
<HazRPG> gord: heh yeah, first thing my best friend told me when it released... and I quote, "Woah!!! The jeans look so realistic! I can't believe it!!!"
<directhex> shenmue would only have broken even if every dreamcast owner in the world bought 2 copies
<mungojerry> who has time to play slow games nowadays? after 10 hours of ff X (i think) i got bored cos nothing had happened yet, and i certainly hadn't eachieved much
<directhex> HazRPG, lol, i remember walking past GAME once. there was a crowd drooling at the big screen tv there, talking about the amazing new PS2 they were watching... then the sega logo appeared next to the title "shenmue"
<HazRPG> mungojerry: I love my RPG's so I have to disagree with that one
<directhex> mungojerry, FF13 is worse. people say it gets much better after 25 hours
 * mungojerry ponders what his favourite games ever are
<gord> directhex, it doesn't
<directhex> HazRPG, an rpg doesn't need to be slow to be compelling. baldur's gate 2 had *perfect* timing.
<gord> yes, i played it for 25 hours and i hated every moment, got to the point where people said it gets better, it got worse, quit forever
<directhex> absolutely unsurpassed to this day
<HazRPG> directhex: I liked FF13 - minus the linear first 10 chapters
<directhex> gord, square made one good rpg in the 90's. the rest is varying grades of "meh"
<mungojerry> probably elite , exile, sensible soccer, SSX3, gta3
<gord> directhex, .. what? no. go away.
<gord> they made about 10 awesome rpgs
<HazRPG> directhex: heh, yeah I remember something similar to that too :P
<directhex> really? really really? take ff6(3) as an example - the mechanics are *completely* broken
 * mungojerry wonders what he has started...runs away to hide
<gord> chrono trigger, final fantasy 4, final fantasy 6, final fantasy 7 i guess, suikoden, suikoden II, entire secret of mana series super mario rpg
<directhex> your party splits into three sub-parties, but one character's special attack is to throw inventory items at enemies - and he can throw the other sub-team's weapons away, when they're on another continent? no.
<HazRPG> directhex: guessing your not including parasite eve in that then? That was an awesome shooter/rpg!
<directhex> HazRPG, parasite eve was capcom wasn't it?
<directhex> gord, okay, i'll give you mario rpg, had forgotten that one.
 * screen-x runs fingers over an old heat sink and is ammused by the notes it produces
<HazRPG> directhex: nope! Defo a square game!
<HazRPG> <== use to be a mega fan of square + sega
<directhex> hm, what am i confusing it with then?
<directhex> anyway, square's best games never even released in yurp.
<HazRPG> directhex: sadly :(
<HazRPG> parasite eve 1 was way better than 2 and we never got that (we had 2 though!?)
<directhex> chrono trigger debuted in europe in 2008. 2008!
<directhex> two thousand and bloody 8!
<HazRPG> and chrono cross was an amazing game following on with the trend of chrono trigger, another game that never hit our shores (japs and US did though :/)
<directhex> chrono cross didn't need 30 unlikeable characters
<davmor2> morning all
<screen-x> morning davmor2 :)
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski before the violence erupts
<HazRPG> davmor2: morning
<gord> directhex, i have figured it out, you are unbelievably picky is all ;)
<HazRPG> directhex: heh, was more than that surely?
<directhex> ultimately i just don't think i like jrpgs unless they're *incredible*
<directhex> gord, hah, jinx!
<HazRPG> directhex: I really liked the elements system they had going on
<HazRPG> one advantage of living in saudi back then, was that I could buy games for any region
<directhex> weirdly, even though my standards are ridiculous, i spent money on all four .hack games
<HazRPG> hard playing japanese games when you can't read/write it, but still fun though
<directhex> and the box set of the .hack series
<HazRPG> directhex: heh same :P
<HazRPG> some people seem to forget the origins of where WoW came from
<directhex> i liked the premise of a game about playing a phantasy star online rip-off
<HazRPG> WoW is pretty much just .hack and phantasy star online - but on a larger scale
<directhex> although it's frustrating in game 3 when your main healing character leaves the server in order to give birth
<directhex> HazRPG, i'm not sure i'd credit WoW with having much in common with PSO, as an industry observer
<directhex> HazRPG, guild wars is closer
<HazRPG> directhex: oh, I forgot about that - but remember aeris died in Final Fantasy 7
<Laney> SPOILERS
<directhex> aerith.
<directhex> Laney, KING KONG DIES
<Laney> /part
<HazRPG> Laney: yeah but a game that old, if you haven't played it by now - then they aren't /going/ to play it unless someone forces them to
<gord> bleh, software centre is currently recommending to me "emacs, qt creator, bluefish editor, stani's python editor and scribes text editor", i'm such a nerd
<HazRPG> gord: xD
<gord> although honestly, those recommendations suck
<HazRPG> I need to get me some wood cutting tools and wood, so that I can finally make my console centre
<directhex> HazRPG, EXPEDIT.
<directhex> http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/70103090#
<HazRPG> see I just have an urge to put minecraft blocks in that xD
<HazRPG> directhex: that would be cool n all - but it really annoys my sister that I always "steal" the tv every so often :/
<HazRPG> despite her hogging it all the time :/
<directhex> "More TV solutions for flatscreen TVs up to 37" - lies, i have a 40" in there :p
<directhex> with rather little clearance
<directhex> (1 inch gap at the top, and on both sides)
<HazRPG> directhex: its probably just a recommendation so that its easy to get in and out and reach plugs, etc
<MartijnVdS> 40"? tiny tiny TV :)
<HazRPG> also depends on the stand it comes with, etc
<DJones> 40" Tv, is that a portable :)
<HazRPG> :(
 * MartijnVdS has a 42", but I want a 58" with sat tuner
<directhex> MartijnVdS, biggest that'll fit my unit though, and as you can see, my unit is awesome for gaming
<HazRPG> mines only 30"
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I have a modular system.. I can move shelves around to fit the 58" :)
<DJones> I've got a 42" in the living room and thats plenty big enough, I woudln't think there was much difference between a 40" & 42"
<directhex> DJones, indeed. but i couldn't fit 42" here
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Expedit is for storing (vinyl) records ;)
<directhex> now, 40" is just right given the sofa is only 2m away. perfect distance for 3d.
 * MartijnVdS has two of these: http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/50103086
<MartijnVdS> in black/brown
<DJones> directhex: Thats true, ours has about 2.5"-3" of border/surround as well which makes it look bigger
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: true... but well if you have many consoles, it's a handy shelf-ing system
<directhex> MartijnVdS, we have eight http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/80104094 for storing games
<HazRPG> my wii, ps3, x360, n64, md2, ps2, psx, and dc would fit nicely in that
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I have a 80cm Billy half-full of CDs and a 40cm Billy with DVDs and games
 * MartijnVdS has ~10 games
<DJones> HazRPG: Looking at that list,I guess you're a "bit" of a gamer
<HazRPG> DJones: use to be, when I had the time for it
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: when you were young :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I'm 23!
<bigcalm> directhex: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/2314799822/in/set-72157603398218096/
<DJones> HazRPG: I used to be the same and then I got married (Don't tell bigcalm about problems like that)
<HazRPG> DJones: it got to the point where, if I hadn't played the game - it wasn't worth playing
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I have 3 billys full of dvd and blu-ray and 4 shelves, and then there are the games
<bigcalm> Taken at my old house, they travel well thankfully :)
 * bigcalm eyes DJones
<HazRPG> bigcalm: envious
<bigcalm> HazRPG: cost a pretty penny
<MartijnVdS> http://twitpic.com/3lkuyu
<HazRPG> bigcalm: the collection that fits inside, or the actual unit :P
<bigcalm> HazRPG: both
 * HazRPG sadly still owns a crt widescreen 30" tv
<bigcalm> All 8 units are now completely full of DVDs
<bigcalm> The CDs are hiding in boxes now :(
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ^ check out that photo :)
<bigcalm> s/DVDs/DVDS+Blu-ray
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "movies"
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I did, was just about to comment - not fair :(
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not fair? it's only almost 400 CDs :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: that's a better way, aye
<directhex> http://plixi.com/p/78343984
<directhex> sorry, celphone pic
<directhex> you can just about see the nes, snes & n64 shelves
<bigcalm> directhex: I like the alternating colours :)
<HazRPG> :(
 * HazRPG must be in the wrong business
<directhex> bigcalm, ikea never have enough of the same colour in stock :)
<bigcalm> directhex: buy the glass doors and don't worry about dusting
<bigcalm> Haha
<HazRPG> directhex: going for the chessboard look?
<directhex> HazRPG, more or less
<bigcalm> Got mine from Wednesbury in 2 lots of 4
<directhex> wow, what a crap pic. http://plixi.com/p/78344217
<HazRPG> directhex: I like how the last one doesn't have shelves and just stacked with books instead xD
<directhex> still, you can almost see, dreamcast & wii in top left, 360 in top middle
<directhex> n64 in leftmost, snes in rightmost
<directhex> megadrive below n64, ps3 and ps3 below snes
<HazRPG> directhex: wish I had a snes :/
<directhex> and nes on bottom row, offset right
<MartijnVdS> This is the other side of my room: http://twitpic.com/410ttt
<DJones> This is my game storage area http://goo.gl/xbWvl
<MartijnVdS> directhex: *facepalm*
<HazRPG> directhex: see that tv rack/shelf/whatever, would be awesome - but I want to make an actual arcade machine myself
<HazRPG> wouldn't be too hard to make if I had the tools to do it, I mean I've got stacks of switches and other electric stuff to be able to make it turn on the right console if a controller was picked up, etc
<HazRPG> I'm sure I could jimmy together a switching system for the video output too
<HazRPG> or use an existing one and solder some wires to it
<czajkowski> Aloha
<directhex> eek! no cat talk, anyone!
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski
<HazRPG> DJones: emu's huh?
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello
<czajkowski> how are we al this friday morning
<mungojerry> has only just noticed that cron hasn't been starting since installing lucid about 1 year ago
<MooDoo> czajkowski: not looking forward to my "i got caught speeding and now i have to do a driver awareness course" course tonight :)
<popey> haha
<HazRPG> mungojerry: what /did/ it do? Or rather what jobs was it serving before the update(s)?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: eh ? yer kidding me ?
<mungojerry> updating stuff on our office display screens
<HazRPG> czajkowski: hey \o
<MooDoo> czajkowski: nah it's an option now, points or a course, it's for low speeding incidents...37 in a 30
<HazRPG> mungojerry: wait, so its been keeping the same imagine for a year?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: hah priceless
 * HazRPG can only imagine the screen burn damage that might cause
<mungojerry> hazrpg,  we display stuff like http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
<MooDoo> czajkowski: pah! Â£90 and 4 hours this evening.
<HazRPG> MooDoo: really?
<MooDoo> HazRPG: yup :)
<mungojerry> but a lot of it is only out of hours, so i never noticed that the display didn't change
<mungojerry> the in-day stuff worked
<czajkowski> MooDoo: sily boy for speeding
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yup i know.....:( only day i picked to drive the car and not be on my bike lol
<mungojerry> bug 592114
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 592114 in upstart (Ubuntu) "upstart doesn't start cron automatically on boot in lucid for server on amd64" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592114
<mungojerry> bad description though
 * HazRPG has an urge to buy a snes now
<selinuxium> Hi all  o/
<HazRPG> selinuxium: hey \o
<selinuxium> Hy HazRPG, how's tricks?
<HazRPG> selinuxium: not bad yourself?
<czajkowski> why is i baby sucking soothers are sooo cute
<MooDoo> czajkowski: :)
<selinuxium> HazRPG, Not too bad, back from Leeds.. Much better now.. :)
<czajkowski> like maggie from simpsons
<selinuxium> czajkowski, Depends how old they are... :)
<HazRPG> selinuxium: cool, did you have fun?
<czajkowski> selinuxium: 4 months old
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi all.
<selinuxium> HazRPG, Not really, had to shout at our DC provider for being 3 month behind provisioning our systems..
<selinuxium> czajkowski, Cool..
<HazRPG> ouch
<selinuxium> I remebr when mine was cute and didn't have a better way of doing everythig...
 * popey tickles TheOpenSourcerer 
 * mungojerry has a 1yr old
<MartijnVdS> popey: alancest? :)
<popey> heh
 * TheOpenSourcerer giggles excitedly
<popey> and eww
<selinuxium> My 'little;' girl is 15
<selinuxium> Ewww +1
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wazzup popey ?
<popey> nowt
<popey> \o/ friday
<selinuxium> \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh :-(
<Neoti> hey people
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thought you wanted to talk secret squirrel like ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's FRIDAY :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Will be getting up around 4:00am in Sunday.
<Neoti> i might have a crunchy then
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/in/on
<Neoti> \0/
<popey> \o/ wifey out this evening
<popey> I get a night in with toys
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mine is way for 4 days next week.
<Neoti> LOL at toys
<TheOpenSourcerer> With the kids !
<davmor2> popey: you make it sound like it's a minecraft night or something
<Neoti> what kind ... lol .....!!!!!
<popey> haha davmor2
<popey> maaaaybe
<DJones>  /o\ wifey supposed to be out tonight, but saying she's not going because of a cold
<DJones> No toys for me
 * mungojerry marks the upgrading of the last rhel4 desktop on his network \o/
<davmor2> DJones: it's your own fault for not keeping a large supply of lemsip in the cupboard for just such an emergency ;)
<mungojerry> home made lemsip is nicer :)
<X3N> just went passed the 800 mark on lp ~ubuntu-uk
<X3N> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk
<DJones> davmor2: Wouldn't mind, I said I had a sore throat on Tuesday evening, Wednesday morning she said she had one as well, by Wednesday evening, mine had gone and she's got full blown flu (or more probably a cold)
<davmor2> DJones: So I saw your words then and all I heard was "Yeap my fault entirely" :D
<DJones> davmor2: :)
<DJones> I blame my mum, she had at the weekend
<czajkowski> X3N: is there an expirary on members in the team ?
<HazRPG> woot! I got accepted :D
<HazRPG> X3N: yay!
<MooDoo> HazRPG: for waht
<HazRPG> MooDoo: the launchpad thing xD
<X3N> no
<MooDoo> HazRPG: eeeee and you can see my ugly mug on the members photos page....
<MooDoo> forgot about that
<czajkowski> X3N: possibly not as high as that, many join teams and never take part or are active. still interesting mind you
<HazRPG> heh I put my picture up... but still hasn't shown up on my main profile I don't think :/
<Mez_> does anyone know an easy way to write a copy of a directory to DVD sized isos? (The directory is about 6Gb - so I want to split it nicely)
<HazRPG> X3N: do images have to get verified before they show up? Or am I missing a trick here?
<HazRPG> MooDoo: which one's you?
<MooDoo> HazRPG: paul Mellors
<HazRPG> MooDoo: nice big grin there :)
<X3N> HazRPG: I don't think there is a vetting process for images
<MooDoo> HazRPG: at a christening
<HazRPG> MooDoo: cool
<MooDoo> HazRPG: my laddos :)
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> why are a lot of people scared to have their photo up
<HazRPG> argh! holy cow, my photo is on there >_<
<MooDoo> HazRPG: not scare, probably not interested
<HazRPG> MooDoo: I guess so
<HazRPG> some still use aliases for their names too, so I guess they like their privacy
<HazRPG> heh, just realised that photo I put up was well before I grew my beard
<MooDoo> beard ftw!
 * mungojerry wonders what the ratio of beards:non-beards is among the linux community
<HazRPG> but the photo has meaning in my eyes though, it was when me and a few friends tried to get bands that would not normally come to our area in - we did it on a not-for-profit basis, was fun, thus the reason you see me as the DJ in that photo... since we did all the work ourselves
<HazRPG> mungojerry: make a survey!
 * MartijnVdS is beardless
<mungojerry> beards:pony tails:linux tattoo:none of the above
<mungojerry> unbeared but regularly unshaven
<mungojerry> ugh its typo friday
<HazRPG> tails:linux?
 * HazRPG just noticed czajkowski hiding behind a koala
<czajkowski> c
<czajkowski> yes
<HazRPG> heh my pc is called koala xD
<HazRPG> was given the name well before karmic too
<HazRPG> for a while I kept telling people "meet my karmic koala"
<HazRPG> from an operating stand point, is English (UK) very different from English (US)? I mean I can understand the obvious spelling mistakes... and probably a few words that just don't translate between the two (context-wise)... but is there really much difference? (looking at danfish since I noticed he's part of the UK translating team)
<DJones> HazRPG: Did it take a while for your photo to come up on the mugshots page, just added one for me & its not shown up yet, although appears on my profile page now
<HazRPG> DJones: well since I only just got accepted to the team, I'm not sure - since I uploaded it like 2-3 days ago
<HazRPG> on my main page it doesn't show up, but it does on the mugshots
<DJones> HazRPG: ok, no worries, mine shows up if I go to edit my profile, but not on mugshots.  I guess most likely to be filtering through yet
<HazRPG> heh, yeah mine showed up in edit too - but still hasn't been added to the main page (which is weird, since it is exactly the same photo - I just cropped/shrunk it)
<HazRPG> it was also added the same day too
<DJones> HazRPG: Mine shows up on the mugshots for another team I'd joined, but not the -uk team
<HazRPG> DJones: that could just be a cache thing
<HazRPG> either local cache, or website-based cache
<DJones> Probably, I've tried refresh, but no success yet
<DJones> So I'm assuming its not local cache
<HazRPG> I use to use Smarty for some sites I built, and I found some pages would update faster than others - depending on how often those pages were viewed - but it entirely depends on how it does it
<HazRPG> DJones: what's the name if you don't mind me asking?
<DJones> HazRPG: Dave Jones
<DJones> I look a bit hairy on the picture though :)
<HazRPG> DJones: I'll take a look
<HazRPG> urgh, I hate it when chrome decides to update itself :/
<HazRPG> makes browsing sluggish until you actually restart the silly thing
<HazRPG> DJones: nope, got nothing on either pages on my side
<DJones> HazRPG: Its wierd, I'm in 4 groups and 3 of them show the picture, just -uk doesn't, maybe theres an approval needed
<DJones> HazRPG: Does the picture show up on
<DJones> 12:37 < HazRPG> makes browsing sluggish until you actually restart the silly thing
<DJones> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk-marketing/+mugshots
<DJones> That link
<HazRPG> DJones: xD
<HazRPG> yeah
<DJones> I least I know it works then
<DJones> Thanks
<HazRPG> might just be an internal caching system that's slowly catching up?
<HazRPG> no problem
<HazRPG> DJones: does it show up on your main page?
<DJones> No, I don't think they're meant to until you login and go to edit your profile
<HazRPG> DJones: it should though, e.g. https://launchpad.net/~alanbell <==
<HazRPG> mine doesn't show on mine https://launchpad.net/~hazrpg
<HazRPG> or at least not for me
<MartijnVdS> not here either
 * HazRPG wonders if its hard to develop apps for ubuntu
<DJones> HazRPG: Did you use the Change branding option
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> it shows up on there... but not on the main profile page for some reason
<DJones> I haven't done that with mine, I'll try it now
<HazRPG> oh... wait... the logo is gone from my branding section now :S
<DJones> Thats worked for me
<HazRPG> Woot! Shows up now...
<HazRPG> https://launchpad.net/~hazrpg
<szymon_g> hi
<HazRPG> don't know why it didn't the first time I did it ~2 days ago
<DJones> Hi szymon_g
<HazRPG> szymon_g: hey
<HazRPG> DJones: so what do you do for the marketing team
<HazRPG> ?*
<DJones> At the moment, nothing, although try & keep interested
<HazRPG> DJones: when did you signup?
<DJones> According to the date, it says Sept 2007, I think I joined when there was something specific happening & probably forgotten about it since
<HazRPG> DJones: the marketing team you mean?
<DJones> HazRPG: yes
<HazRPG> apparently I've been a member with launchpad since 2006, I think it was because I sent a bug report once :P
<DJones> :)
<HazRPG> can't say I've ever had any bugs since the few that I did submit in back then
<HazRPG> most of the issues I had since were mainly because I was being an r-tard and didn't know what I was doing :P
<czajkowski> anyone use Sky and know what station I'd find Cbbeebbies on
<czajkowski> cannot work this remote
<popey> 71
<popey> iirc
<czajkowski> thanks
<popey> no, thats freeview
<popey> 701?
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_channels_on_Sky
<popey> 614 apparently :)
<popey> I quit sky years ago :)
<HazRPG> shoot, was just about to say that
<HazRPG> 71 is freeview
<czajkowski> popey: you rock
<czajkowski> thanks
<popey> np
<davmor2> czajkowski: is that cause the squiggles on the button are too confusing ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: no I couldnt get it up on the menu
<czajkowski> and 2 kids are not happy
<czajkowski> so if I cna make one happy I can sort the other one
<mungojerry>  /me notices that his /etc/issue file now says 10.04.2
<HazRPG> mungojerry: ^^
<HazRPG> think it was shauno earlier that mentioned that
<HazRPG> there was an update for ubuntu 10.04
<mungojerry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ReleaseNotes/ChangeSummary/10.04.2
 * mungojerry runs 10.04 with a ridiculous number of PPAs
<nucc1> is there a way to view a file in from the bottom up, using 'less'?
<mungojerry> i usually just hit shift-G to jump to botton
<nucc1> mungojerry, nice. thanks.
<nucc1> got a PDF that fails to print consistently at a certain page, trying to find out why
<mungojerry> ctrl-b ctrl-f to skip pages
<ali1234> i just press end and then page up
<nucc1> :p i didn't realise that worked in less
<nucc1> seems to be a ghostscript error
<nucc1> i wonder why all bugzilla instances worldwide don't use a single authentication database :p
<mungojerry> has anyone tried embedding evince in firefox like this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/26796/how-to-embed-evince-in-firefox-4
<czajkowski> seriously 2 dirty nappies in an hour
<czajkowski> I forgot about this
<HazRPG> gord: money magic!
<gord> <3 monkey
<HazRPG> gord: just noticed your xbmc video
<HazRPG> man I love that show!
<HazRPG> people always think I made it up when I describe it
<HazRPG> some people were just never cool enough to watch channel 4 when it was on
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<HazRPG> hey brobostigon \o
<brobostigon> hey HazRPG :)
<Myrtti> mmmm salmiakki
<danfish> afternoon
<brobostigon> afternoonings danfish and Myrtti
<screen-x> hmm one of my cpu cores was getting rather hot (85 deg c) turns out gnome-panel was spinning.
<danfish> czajkowski: don't cha just love that nappy smell with a freshly brewed deposit :D
<czajkowski> danfish: two very stinky ones
<czajkowski>  I suspect a 3d on the way
<popey> czajkowski: congratulations
<screen-x> wut? /me assumed cz had borrowed a baby from somewhere
<davmor2> czajkowski: wow 3d stinky nappies  /me wonders what will be 3d next
<danfish> davmor2: heh - from the sounds of it, not just 3D but smell-o-vision
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> is there a secure way to keep an open port on my router? (NAT forwarding)
<popey> pr0ph3t: open port to what?
<mungojerry> pr0ph3t you want to access a machine inside your network from the internet via the NAT router
<mungojerry> .?
<pr0ph3t> erhm, I will access my computer remotely from my phone, streaming media files
<popey> sounds insecure :)
<pr0ph3t> so using the mobile network, i.e. a different network
<pr0ph3t> it is, I basically open two ports and anyone can connect to them pretty much
<popey> what client?
<pr0ph3t> popey, gmote
<popey> why do you need to be outside the network?
<popey> does your phone not have wifi?
<pr0ph3t> yes but I can browse the server media files and play them on my phone, so it becomes a media centre accessible remotely, of course running ubuntu
<mungojerry> gmote allows password protection, right?
<pr0ph3t> mungojerry, no
<popey> what process runs on the server?
<popey> maybe you could do something with port knocking
<popey> you attempt to connect on some random high port number, which opens up a lower port number just for your IP
<pr0ph3t> popey, Gmote Server,  but it's a standard ubuntu installation
<popey> does gmote server support passwords?
<pr0ph3t> yes
<popey> so do that?
<pr0ph3t> is that gonna be enough to be secure?
<mungojerry> pr0ph3t you can additionally restrict incoming connections on 8889 (or whatever gmote port) to the mobile phone network netblock
<pr0ph3t> not 100% but at least 75%?
<mungojerry> have ou also seen this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/MusicStreaming
<mungojerry> spotify premium also works
<mungojerry> both of these require Â£Â£
<popey> \o/ spotify
<pr0ph3t> mungojerry, restricting access to mobile network sounds good, and I know about those programs, with gmote you can stream movies as well
<s-fox> Hello.
<pr0ph3t> although 3's gonna get annoyed
<mungojerry> yeah i bet
<Myrtti> spotify â¥
<mungojerry> unlimited data suddenly gets restrcited for fair use
<pr0ph3t> but they are giving "all you can eat data"
<pr0ph3t> which is not restricted by fair usage but to personal use
<mungojerry> i just use an mp3 player with massive battery life instead of smartphone for listening to stuff
<mungojerry> my htc battery is too precious
<ali1234> pr0ph3t: open 1 port, run openvpn on it, use certificates... that should be pretty secure
<ali1234> plus it will prevent 3 from doing packet inspection
<Myrtti> boo, kitty likes alpaca yarn too much
<pr0ph3t> openvpn, I'll look it up, thank ali1234, thanks all
<Myrtti> it's all in kitty drool now :-(
<brobostigon> :(
<mungojerry> "Oracle this week pushed an updated version of its Java runtime  environment that fixes 21 security vulnerabilities, 19 of which allow  attackers to remotely install malicious software on end-user machines."
<ali1234> for that matter, you could just use ssh with certs and tunneling/proxyarp
<andylockran> hey guys
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<andylockran> I have a dd img file, (200GB disk) and I want to write that to a brand new 1TB physical disk
<andylockran> how do I go about that.. so i partition the 1TB first
<ali1234> whole disk?
<andylockran> dd is an image of a whole disk
<ali1234> easier to mount it and copy the files
<andylockran> can I do a dd if=/home/andy/disk.img of=/dev/sdc
<mungojerry> a whole disk e.g. /dev/sda will also include partition info
<ali1234> you can do, but then you'll have a 200GB partition and nothing else
<ali1234> you'll have to resize it
<mungojerry> andylockran, i did that last week
<mungojerry> then u use partimage to resize
<andylockran> yeah, that'll work for me.
<andylockran> awesome
<andylockran> is there a flag to show % complete when running the dd ?
<mungojerry> i even needed to resize my logical partition, which was scary but worked
<mungojerry> yes
<ali1234> i would much rather format the new drive, loopmount the image, and cp -a the files
<ali1234> that way you get a free defrag :)
<andylockran> dmesg
<mungojerry> andylockran, there's a kill command..
<andylockran> ali1234: that also makes sense
<mungojerry> hold on i'll find it
 * mungojerry is from solaris background, dd just feels "right" to him
<mungojerry> http://linuxcommando.blogspot.com/2008/06/show-progress-during-dd-copy.html
<mungojerry> haven't tried it, because the progress was v quick
<mungojerry> 200gb writing to  a local 7200rpm disk should only take 20-30 mins
<mungojerry> actually i did at 80gb dd img that took ~15mins..200gb maybe longer
<mungojerry> even discovered that the win xp partition still worked after the dd 8-)
<danfish> !info dcfldd | andylockran
<lubotu3> andylockran: dcfldd (source: dcfldd): enhanced version of dd for forensics and security. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.4.1-2 (maverick), package size 35 kB, installed size 124 kB
<danfish> andylockran: dcfldd has a nice progress bar and is a drop-in dd replacement
<mungojerry> danfish, nice
<andylockran> thanks
<andylockran> 711705088 bytes (712 MB) copied, 40.5911 s, 17.5 MB/s
<andylockran> 8237560320 bytes (8.2 GB) copied, 473.931 s, 17.4 MB/s
<andylockran> 1GB/Minute ?
<mungojerry> where are you copying from/to?
<andylockran> two SATA disks in the same amchine.
<andylockran> 1 on a SATA card, the other on onboard controller
<andylockran> is that slow?
<HazRPG> Hey guys, finally decided to test out ubuntu server in a virtual machine. Getting ready to migrate my old server over to ubuntu.
<HazRPG> Question; Do you have to pay for landscape? And what is it exactly?
<danfish> andylockran: not sure - depends on a number of factors including sata card make, type etc I suppose
<mungojerry> andylockran, seems slow. i had slowness issues when originally creating the dd file from local sata to usb external drive (couple of hours at least), but the other way round was fast for me
<mungojerry> i wonder if performance is linear :|
<andylockran> sata was meant to be 150mb/s
<danfish> andylockran: daubers would know, but he's not around afaik
<andylockran> SATA disk can write approx 35-40MB/s and read 17MB/s
<danfish> andylockran: ahh, but you're forgetting there's a solar flare happening ;)
<andylockran> ah yea
<andylockran> that'll be it
<andylockran> thanks
<HazRPG> ok, found out what it is... sounds pretty cool, but from the site it seems that it's a paid service... would I be wrong in thinking that? Tempted to try it out regardless though, is it expensive?
<popey> landscape is a pay-service, yes
<brobostigon> freetrial though.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah I noticed :)
<HazRPG> popey: thanks for the up :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<AlanBell> our free 60 day trial has been going since 09/06/09
<HazRPG> AlanBell: really? Is that even possible?
<HazRPG> surely that's a bug...
<AlanBell> probably, or could be because we are a partner and someone pressed a magic button
<HazRPG> :P
<AlanBell> one of those things were it isn't really in my interest to find out
<HazRPG> indeed
<andylockran> this is a little too slow..
<brobostigon> ok,i need some advice, i need to track the revisions i am making between versions of the car controller software i am making better, any ideas ?
<popey> git
<daubers> bzr
<popey> bzr
<daubers> cvs
 * popey points and laughs
<popey> you said it!
 * daubers had to use cvs the other day, it made me sad :(
<brobostigon> hmm, :)
<dutchie> popey said git before bzr, loses 5 canonical points
<popey> yeah, I did
<brobostigon> i could use launchpad?
<popey> thought it might win me favour with the cool kids
<popey> you could
<popey> !bzr
<lubotu3> bzr is Bazaar-NG, a decentralized revision control system designed to be easy for developers and end users alike. Decentralized revision control systems give people the ability to work over the internet using the bazaar development model.  See http://bazaar-vcs.org/QuickHackingWithBzr for a quickstart guide.
<daubers> brobostigon: launchpad uses bzr :)
<daubers> brobostigon: Nicer front end though
<popey> you could use launchpad + bzr
<popey> or git + github
<brobostigon> ok, let me have a look at github and launchpad then. :)
<popey> are you doing this coding on ubuntu?
<brobostigon> debian and ubuntu, yes.
<ali1234> you don't need to use launchpad or github on any of that stuff
<ali1234> if it is private, you just use git locally
<dutchie> bzr has a flatter learning curve but is less powerful imo
<gord> brobostigon, pretty simple tutorial for bzr, "bzr init" in your directory. "bzr add *" add all the files. "bzr commit -m "This is my first commit" " does your commit, just commit all the revisions you want
<gord> you don't have to use launchpad at all
<ali1234> the instructions for git are exactly the same except it is git commit -a (a for all) instead of bzr commit -m (m for who knows what?)
<dutchie> message
<dutchie> git has exactly the same option for the same thing :)
<ali1234> i see
<ali1234> i just use the editor
<ali1234> then i can actually write a reasonable description of the commit
<dutchie> yeah
<jpds> dutchie: 'less powerful'?
<ali1234> i really hate to see mega-commits labelled "commiting a bunch of stuff"
<HazRPG> I use svn at home, is that bad compared to git/bzr?
<ali1234> yes
<HazRPG> :(
<brobostigon> so what do i do then.
<ali1234> what gord said
<dutchie> jpds: dunno, that's just my (probably wrong) impression
<HazRPG> I mean I've used git for grabbing and compiling code online, but never used it commits, etc
<ali1234> svn sucks
<brobostigon> gord: however it would be good to make it easy, for other people to read said code aswell.
<gord> brobostigon, it honestly doesn't matter if you use bzr or git, but if you use bzr i can at least help you out with that, i use it all day long :)
<brobostigon> gord: bzr it is then.
<ali1234> you can upload the repo later
<gord> brobostigon, well in that case when you want to "push" your code up to launchpad you just do "bzr push lp:~yourusername/+junk/<projectname>"
<ali1234> it's distributed so you don't need to make it all in one place like you do with svn
<gord> and after the first time you do that, bzr will remember so you just do "bzr push" every time you upload
<ali1234> does bzr have rebase --interactive like git?
<brobostigon> gord: thank you, ok.
<dutchie> git add -p is one of the best git features imo
<dutchie> and the all the branches in one dir is nice too
<HazRPG> is it a bad idea to have a server (ubuntu) auto-update?
<gord> brobostigon, also, a little further ahead than you need but when you have a few revisions under your belt, "bzr visualise" will provide you with a nice pretty gui to look at what you did between revisions
<gord> HazRPG, i set my server to auto-update security fixes, not auto-updating those would be insane
<brobostigon> gord: sounds good, :)
<HazRPG> gord: heh, I meant the security updates... it's the option in the installer
<HazRPG> gord: thanks :)
<penguin42> how often does it run the autoupdates?
<HazRPG> penguin42: erm... I haven't even picked "no automatic updates, install security updates automatically, manage system with landscape" options yet
<HazRPG> first time installing ubuntu server
<HazRPG> or any linux server for that matter ...
 * penguin42 is just wondering if it's a daily thing on a cron then I'd pick the time to be one that I was around; if it was every few hours well, then you can't really change that
<HazRPG> *shrug*
<HazRPG> soon find out...
<HazRPG> wow why doesn't ubuntu-alternative (desktop) have an application picker like this :o
<brobostigon> gord: ok, bzr installed, do i start with bzr init, and then the bzr push lp:* ?
<ali1234> because then it would be the server install
<gord> brobostigon, no follow the steps i outlined above, after a commit, you can then bzr push
<HazRPG> ali1234: no, I mean why doesn't it have an application picker for picking things like Open(Libre)Office; Games; etc
<ali1234> i know...
<HazRPG> would be useful
<HazRPG> I'm sure there's a reasoning as to why they don't somewhere
<ali1234> actually i'm pretty sure it does have that
<HazRPG> ubuntu-alt install?
<HazRPG> I just used it the other day, don't think I noticed one
<HazRPG> I guess one could always use the oem-tools
<czajkowski> folks may be interested http://j.mp/eOHQhR
<ali1234> or oyu could just use the server install disc
<daubers> andylockran: A single SATA HDD is rubbish in linear performance (after catching up with the above). The bus can hand a lot more than the drive can deliver
<brobostigon> gord: ok, let me bring them up again.
<gord> brobostigon, bring them up, but them in tomboy, write them down :P
<HazRPG> ali1234: lol, wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose though? Since that would just be more work having to install the desktop environment, etc
<HazRPG> czajkowski: hmm... interesting
<ali1234> well which is it? you want to select packages, or not?
<brobostigon> gord: good idea, :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: well to select packages, but only to reduce time; not extend it.
<andylockran> daubers: that makes sense, thanks.
<brobostigon> gord: i am getting errors when i try bzr push, "error, connection closed"
<gord> brobostigon, full error please
<brobostigon> Warning: Permanently added 'bazaar.launchpad.net,91.189.90.11' (RSA) to the list of known hosts.
<brobostigon> Permission denied (publickey).
<brobostigon> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
<gord> brobostigon, have you registered your ssh key in launchpad? https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+editsshkeys
<brobostigon> gord: i thought i did/have, let mecheck.
<gord> you might also need to tell bzr who you are, but i'm not convinced you have to bzr whoami "John Doe <john.doe@gmail.com>"
<gord> bzr launchpad-login should try and log you in at least
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> gord: thank you, :)
<brobostigon> https://code.launchpad.net/~scraliontis/+junk/saab-hybrid
<gord> :)
<brobostigon> gord: so for every revision, i bzr commit -m ? and then bzr push.
<gord> brobostigon, yup, or if you want to do a more detailed commit message you can just do "bzr commit", it'll open a text editor for you, once you save and quit it'll set your message that you saved as the message
<brobostigon> gord: ah,thats useful.
<brobostigon> i just have a funny thought, wouldnt it be weird to monitor car controller bugs on launchpad.
<brobostigon> had*
<gord> why would that be weird?
<brobostigon> it was just my thought, what such a bug might entail, "brake failiure" "potentiometer not pickinh up properly, to regulate speed"
<gord> sounds like the kind of thing that is perfect for launchpad if you ask me :)
<brobostigon> maybe, yes. but still in mymind, alittle weird.
<penguin42> anyone happen to know what /lib/udev/watershed does?
<jpds> penguin42: apt-cache show watershed
<penguin42> oh right, hadn't even thought it would be a separate package
<penguin42> hmm ok - thanks
 * penguin42 is trying to debug a ~90 second pause in his boot involving some hideous mix of lvm and udev
<jpds> penguin42: Looked at bootchart ?
<penguin42> jpds: Yeh, it shows udev and lvm doing 'something' for that time
<penguin42> jpds: Bug 625395
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 625395 in linux (Ubuntu) "~30s boot pause" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625395
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> ping-pong, a fun game for all the family
 * DJones is slightly disturbed to see the names of a couple booking a honeymoon for after their wedding, a Mr Allcock and a Miss Cox
<danfish> !friday
<danfish> bah - the bot should know about Friday
<MartijnVdS> !weekend
<lubotu3> It's a weekend. Often on weekends the paid developers and a lot of the community may not be around to answer your question. Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would or try again during the working week.
<MartijnVdS> it knows about weekend :)
<brobostigon> :)
<danfish> close, but not close enough. Mr/Ms Bot, Friday = beer to be drunk, fun to be had.
<MartijnVdS> beer! but it's only 18:30
<MartijnVdS> ish
<danfish> MartijnVdS: ...and your point being ;)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: I see yours now :)
<danfish> :D
<AlanBell> !gender
<lubotu3> yes, I can confirm I am a female bot :)
<Pendulum> so if lubotu3 is female, does that mean bots are like boats?
<danfish> Pendulum: please to be explaining
<Pendulum> boats are always female
<Pendulum> so are bots always female?
<davmor2> Pendulum: The Terminator was a bot he was male :D
<Pendulum> davmor2: but he wasn't an IRC bot
<davmor2> Pendulum: But then I can't be pedantic about your comment of "so are bots always female" :D
<Pendulum> haha
<gord> if all boats are female and all bots are female, then all females are boat bots? my logic is sound i am sure.
<MartijnVdS> If all bots are female, why was the word "fembot" invented
<brobostigon> :)
<lunchie3> pureley to be used in austin powers lol, refers to the actual fembot design rather than fembot meaning femal bot
<lunchie3> lo
<davmor2> lunchie3: Tell bender that
<davmor2> Pendulum: Irc bot are female as most ladies name things in a female fashion and most men call anything they work on her
<davmor2> Pendulum: poor bot doesn't stand a chance really being worked on by both sexs
<AlanBell> and your disturbing mental image of the day was brought to you by davmor2
<lunchie2> lo
<jacobw> :)
 * MartijnVdS is so happy with $new_kitchen
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: so much shelf space, bigger fridge, bigger freezer, better microwave/oven combination
<jacobw> but does it run linux?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: it's all Ikea
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: I don't know really
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: how have you christened it?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I've made pasta :)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Beer fridge?
<MartijnVdS> DJones: among other things :)
<dutchie> DJones: is there any other sort?
<dutchie> actually, proper beer does not require a fridge
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yummy, nice.:)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: so.. want to buy a fridge? :) (my old one)
<DJones> dutchie: Sometimes there's a Vodka firdge, although that is more of a beer freezer
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Can it make pie  ?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: yes
<DJones> s/beer freezer/vodka freezer
<penguin42> then it's a good kitchen
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i think it might be impractical to ship it,and we have  beer fridge already,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: also, my sister is interested (beer fridge/emergency freezer)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: this is the microwave/oven: http://www.ikea.com/nl/nl/catalog/products/70123026
<MartijnVdS> also, a small (45cm wide) dishwasher.. it's so cute â¥
<penguin42> ooh a combimagnetron
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: nice.
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it's a microwave.. and it's an oven! :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yeh. I think our (free standing) microwave also has a conventional element, I've never used it - we've got a separate electric oven
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I didn't want to "waste" space, it's only 4m wide
<dutchie> MartijnVdS: that's a very large oven
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: it's a bit larger than my old microwave
<popey> \o/ minecraft o clock
<MartijnVdS> popey: isn't it always Minecraft o'clock at Popey Mansion?
<popey> there is that
<brobostigon> android google reader widget, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it has a widget? I saw an update..
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it does now, it came with most recent update,
 * MartijnVdS enabled two-factor auth on his google account last week
<brobostigon> ?
<brobostigon> what is that?
<brobostigon> so you can be logged into more than one account atonce?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: How does it work with them?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Google asks for a code (generated by an app on your phone) after logging in with your password
<MartijnVdS> and it works great
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: what is its purpose?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if h4x0rs figure out your password, they won't have access to your account, unless they can also guess that code
<MartijnVdS> the code changes every 30 seconds
<Myrtti> like the RSA keyfobs some people need to log in to workplace networks - it's a onetime password that needs to be given to log in
<MartijnVdS> and it's based on a shared secret between Google and my phone
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: a bit like that, yes
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: except Google _also_ wants my password
<brobostigon> sounds interesting,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/10/gmail_2_factor_authentication/
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Except your phone is also logged onto google so has your password as well?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you have to generate "single-use" passwords for your phone (and google talk) etc.
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: well, so does these corporate networks
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I've never used them really, I assumed they required only the code
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: bf works for a big international company and they need the keyfob + password for logging into vpn
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I hope we'll switch to something sane like that
 * MartijnVdS has to use ssh -D now :(
<mgdm> jpds: May I bother you for your window switching setup thing for irssi again? I've lost the text file I pasted it into.
<mgdm> (I am also using a bare irssi config)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: /win <x>
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: alt+<x>?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: ESC <x> ?
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: jpds has a trick to set up /1 all the way to /200 in one shot
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: nice.. dunno about that :)
 * MartijnVdS has 20ish windows, so I can cope :)
 * mgdm had about 70 until he restarted it the other day
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<jacobw> hi
<pr0ph3t> is there anything on linux to stream audio wirelessly on the network? A bit like the airport express for mac to which you can connect usb devices and also has an audio jack in port
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: pulse has a server mode like that
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, but I would need something like an audio streaming server right?
<pr0ph3t> just like you would have a little printer server
<pr0ph3t> i.e. and old computer that does just that
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: you can enable it if you have paprefs installed
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: and then have other pulseaudio devices discover/connect to it
<jpds> mgdm / MartijnVdS: /script exec for (1 .. 200) { Irssi::command("/alias $_ window goto $_") }
<popey> hehe
<popey> i used that ages ago
 * popey hugs jpds 
<DJones> If anybody is wondering why their mobile twitter app has stopped working http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/38676/twitter-suspends-ubertwitter-twidroyd-echofon?
<Azelphur> DJones: fun, also seems interestingly timed to coincide with twitters new android client
<lunchie666> HazRPG,
 * jpds hugs popey.
<AlanBell> ooh, thanks jpds, that is awesome
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, would I be able to stream to a bluetooth audio receiver with puleaudio server?
<jpds> AlanBell: Welcome.
<jpds> pr0ph3t: If you mean play music to your headset, yes; I'm doing that right now.
<pr0ph3t> jpds, more like to my hi-fi system through a bluetooth receiver
<pr0ph3t> same concept I guess though, right?
<jpds> pr0ph3t: If you can link the hi-fi to an application like blueman, I don't see why not.
<jpds> Once you've registed the device to your machine, you just need to connect to it's "Audio Sink" service.
<jpds> its*
 * popey cuddles MartijnVdS 
<popey> you told me about Alphawezen I think?
<popey> more of that please?
<pr0ph3t> I haven't got the bluetooth receiver yet, I need to buy one and was wondering whether it was possible
<Azelphur> pr0ph3t: you can get dirt cheap bluetooth receivers for like Â£1 from various asian places
<Azelphur> they seem to work with Ubuntu too
<pr0ph3t> lol really? anywhere in London?
<Azelphur> lol probably not in London, but online sure
<Azelphur> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/super-mini-bluetooth-2-0-adapter-dongle-vista-compatible-11866
<popey> pound shop
<Azelphur> I've had 3 of these (Lost first one, using second one, just bought one for my mum it's in the post)
<popey> i found one on the window sill in the lounge the other day
<Azelphur> signal quality isn't superb at a distance, but it can get anywhere in the room no problem
<popey> and another in my sons sock drawer
<Azelphur> they are like ninjas.
<popey> they are so easy to lose!
<pr0ph3t> popey, you got them from the pound shop?
<popey> I think I have seen them in there
<pr0ph3t> I think I need something like this rather: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-MI-Q-BT139-BLUETOOTH-MUSIC-RECEIVER-EURO-2PIN_W0QQitemZ200573458574QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=211492690407&rvr_id=211492690407&cguid=b868f37612d0a47a44759845fefd4a82
<pr0ph3t> that I can connect to the hi fi system, which is not wifi enabled
<pr0ph3t> bluetooth enabled I meant
<ali1234> i got a bunch of those pound shop bluetooth dongles
<ali1234> they are exactly the same as all my other bluetooth dongles
<pr0ph3t> but my hi-fi has not got a usb port unfortunately
<pr0ph3t> DLNA is key right?
<ali1234> i don't use bluetooth for audio
<ali1234> but if i wanted to do that i would get a small embedded linux box with audio out and add a usb bluetooth
<grogoreo> hi
<grogoreo> Does anyone know with the new Gnome 3, can you have applets at the top - specifically the global menu applet?
<popey> no idea :)
<popey> never used GNOME 3
<brobostigon> its gnome-shell, gnome3 doesnt really exist yet,
<brobostigon> which bit in gnome2 is the global menu applet anyways?
<ali1234> isn't global menu the detached menus that are always at the top of the screen?
<brobostigon> grogoreo: i doubt it though, you will have to start things either via activities/search or activities/ and the apps list.
<brobostigon> i am preumsing its the apps menu, and those bits.
<pr0ph3t> re all
<pr0ph3t> I made a big mistake
<pr0ph3t> I did apt-get install libindicator2 and it removed a lot of stuff
<pr0ph3t> now I reinstalled version 3 but all the stuff it removed was not installed back :S
<jpds> pr0ph3t: /var/log/apt/history.log - reinstall everything referenced there?
<brobostigon> nos da, everyone. sleep well.
<vgx> hi
<vgx> is there a converted in ubuntu or for linux that converts youtube songs to mp3 on the fly?
<vgx> rather than having to download and then convert
<vgx> converter*
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-19
<HazRPG> \o morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * ball thinks aboutpie
<ball> brb, installing Ubuntu
<HazRPG> probably a weird question... but can you install a version of dropbox onto ubuntu serveR?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: dropbox-client I guess you mean?
<HazRPG> yeah
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://wiki.dropbox.com/TipsAndTricks/TextBasedLinuxInstall :)
<HazRPG> because I really really want to remove win2003 from my home server
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (google: dropbox client command line)
<HazRPG> heh thanks
 * MartijnVdS is preparing an IKEA shopping list
<HazRPG> I was trying "dropbox ubuntu server" and was getting nothing
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :( my nearest idea is 2hr drive away :(
<HazRPG> ikea*
<HazRPG> when I was in Saudi, all my stuff pretty much came from ikea
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I live ~30 minutes from 4 ikeas :)
<HazRPG> wow not fair
<HazRPG> see, because I live too far away, they won't deliver to my house :(
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: living in the middle of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstad ++
<HazRPG> I've been to Utrecht :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I live in the middle between Utrecht and Leiden
<HazRPG> nice
<HazRPG> is it easy to install via LAN?
<HazRPG> I know most computers and servers these days have an option at boot that says "click ... to install/boot from LAN"
<HazRPG> never tried to do it before, don't even know where to begin
<HazRPG> other than google lol
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I've done it :)
<MartijnVdS> years ago, so it should be easier now :P
<MartijnVdS> You need to set up a DHCP + PXE server in your LAN
<MartijnVdS> then have the boot-rom of your to-be-installed machine boot from LAN (PXE)
<MartijnVdS> and that's it really
<HazRPG> wonder if I can do that via a vm
<MartijnVdS> if you put all VMs on a vlan, and don't have a dhcp server on that vlan yet, you can do it
<MartijnVdS> (by making another vm the dhcp/pxe server)
<MartijnVdS> if there is already a dhcp server, you can have it forward unknown clients to the PXE server
<HazRPG> I don't have a dhcp server other than my router really
<HazRPG> never saw the need to have an acutal dhcp server
<MartijnVdS> that might confuse things
<MartijnVdS> unless you put the VMs on a completely separate vlan
<MartijnVdS> so you get:
<MartijnVdS> (router) -- (vmhost (vlan1 vm1 vm2 vm3))
<MartijnVdS> or even
<MartijnVdS> (router) -- (vmhost (vlan1 vm1 vm2 vm3) (vlan2 vm3 vm4))
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<MartijnVdS> vmhost will have to route its internal (vlan) IPs properly in that case
<MartijnVdS> it'll teach you a lot about networking (but it's easy to set up)
<MartijnVdS> As long as you don't use overlapping network ranges
<MartijnVdS> (say your home net is 192.168.0.0/24, use 10.0.0.0/24 (or something) for the vm vlan
<MartijnVdS> </ramble>
<HazRPG> hehe interesting
 * MartijnVdS sucked up all this knowledge once.. but now I just write Perl for a living ;)
<MartijnVdS> stop making me feel old :P
<HazRPG> I'm not :P
<HazRPG> I learned networking years ago too, but well we never used VM's
<HazRPG> see I'm probably making more work for myself then needed....
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: keep doing that.. it's the basis of knowledge and experience :)
<HazRPG> I just installed ubuntu server into a vm on my win2003 machine via rdp, and now have ubuntu server setup on it
<MartijnVdS> it's why people at work tell me "How and WHY do you know all this?"
<HazRPG> haha same :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I used to be a Debian developer, ~8 years ago :)
<HazRPG> see I want to get out of the habit of relying on a mouse and point-click applications for a server
<HazRPG> I want to get into the habit that not all servers actually have screens or even rdp (or vnc)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: nice
<HazRPG> using ssh, tty, etc
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: knowing Debian packaging has helped a lot with the upgrade from FleaBSD -> Debian @ work ;)
<HazRPG> I want to get into the habit of using such tools
<HazRPG> I can imagine :P
<HazRPG> I want to feel like I am actually in control of my server, and not my server controlling me
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the only programs I have running on my desktop are a web browser, banshee and 6 terminals :)
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> what you got going on in the terminals? I have a feeling iirsi is one of them
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: irssi on my vps (ssh)
<MartijnVdS> I've been moving music around, so directory listings in two of them
<MartijnVdS> one "idle"
<MartijnVdS> oh one isn't a terminal, it's gvim (gvim > vim, because it detects "paste" automatically and has more colours/font options :)
<HazRPG> wow, see this is the feeling I hate right now, looking at the ubuntu server terminal... and I feel like it should be doing stuff, but I haven't got a mouse to control
 * HazRPG does a ifconfig since its one of few commands I know
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you don't have to do stuff :)
<MartijnVdS> The server does stuff.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hehe
<HazRPG> hmm, I know wget
<HazRPG> and ftp#
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: aptitude
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: do you know vim?
<HazRPG> I know nano...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: time to learn vim then :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: install the "vim" package (the basic/mini vim package in the basic install is poo)
<MartijnVdS> vimtutor should then give you an overview of the editor :)
<HazRPG> hmm, apparently it couldn't lock /var/lib/dpkg
<MartijnVdS> (but ignore the "thou shalt use hjkl")
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: are you root?
<HazRPG> I logged in as my user...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: sudo aptitude install foobarbaz
<HazRPG> oh, I did sudo apt-get install vim
<MartijnVdS> apt-get, aptitude.. same thing mostly
<HazRPG> still couldn't lock it apparently
<HazRPG> hold on
<MartijnVdS> is another apt/dpkg running?
<HazRPG> it shouldn't be... I only just installed it
<HazRPG> is there a way to find out?
<MartijnVdS> ps faux | less
<MartijnVdS> !pipes
<HazRPG> heh I know pipes :P
<HazRPG> doesn't appear to be running...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: pastebin the prompt + command + output (of apt) and I'll have a look
<HazRPG> I just restarted it
<HazRPG> ctrl+alt+del style
<HazRPG> woot, its working now :)
<HazRPG> okay, so vim is installed now :)
<MartijnVdS> vimtutor
<HazRPG> wow, text file teacher ^^
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: so is this actually better than nano?
 * ball uses joe
<shauno> nano's nice because it's easy to explain to people who have only ever used notepad.  vim wins in every other respect possible
<HazRPG> feels weird using hjkl
<HazRPG> wasd or arrow keys would have been more natural ^^
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: like I said, just use arrows :)
<MartijnVdS> vim doesn't care
<HazRPG> holy cow!
<HazRPG> woo!
<HazRPG> :P
<MartijnVdS> old vims cared
<MartijnVdS> sometimes if your terminal is set wrong vim cares
<MartijnVdS> but that only happens when I ssh to old freebsd boxes (and it might be a misconfigured vim in that case)
<HazRPG> yeah I figured there would be a reason
<shauno> hjkl are kinda nice once you get used to them; and start discovering they work in other places :)
<HazRPG> I should really brush up on my apache too after this...
<HazRPG> I set the win2003 one up years ago and never touched it since
<HazRPG> well I add more domains and subdomains to it every now and then, but that's all
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what shall I do after I've finished this tutorial?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: set it as your default editor, and use it a lot :)
<HazRPG> how do I do that?
<MartijnVdS> update-alternatives --config editor
<HazRPG> vim.tiny or vim.basic?
<MartijnVdS> basic
<MartijnVdS> tiny is the mini-vim that's installed in the base system (with most optional features turned off)
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> I still think nano looks better, but I'm sure I'll begin to love vim more once I go through this tutorial :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you can customize vim using ~/.vimrc and the ~/.vim directory
<MartijnVdS> don't know if the tutorial covers that
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://paste.ubuntu.com/569052/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: my .vimrc :)
<HazRPG> according to ls -a
<HazRPG> I don't have .vimrc or .vim
<MartijnVdS> you can create one
<HazRPG> I have a .viminfo
<MartijnVdS> that's the "session" file, where it stores command history etc.
<HazRPG> ah
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check out my vimrc, then inside vim try (for each option):
<HazRPG> heh, so can I wget that paste you sent ^^
<MartijnVdS> ESC :help optionname
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you could, yes :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Also install the vim-addon-manager and vim-scripts packages
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: then you can enable some plugins with vim-addons (lists), vim-addons install foo (guess) and vim-addons remove foo (guess again)
<MartijnVdS> (the plugin info is stored in ~/.vim/ so you can run vim-addons as your-user instead of root
<HazRPG> cool
<MartijnVdS> the gnupg extension is cool, it allows you to edit encrypted files (without the unencrypted version hitting disk)
<ball> It's 01:32. I should really go to bed instead of potching with Ubuntu One.
<MartijnVdS> ball: your mind still thinks it's 7:35
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://imgur.com/TVmDF.png
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: thanks
<HazRPG> btw, vim now comes with errors >_<
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what does it say?
<HazRPG> what doesn't it say >_<
<HazRPG> downloaded the .vimrc file
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: pastebin the error output :)
<HazRPG> all 98 lines of it?
<MartijnVdS> sure
<HazRPG> >_<
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the last few lines is ok too
<HazRPG> hmm, seems you can't type vim > argh.log
<HazRPG> must be a way to save the output right?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you can but it gets messy :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: copy/paste from the terminal window!
<HazRPG> bit hard to do when I'm using the actual server
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ok, retype the last line then
<MartijnVdS> maybe 2
 * HazRPG should really remote access this thing...
<MartijnVdS> install sshd, done
<ball> I'm configuring Ubuntu One for the first time. Should I tick 'Files' in the Services tab of the preferences tool if I want to try sharing a file between two machines?
<ball> ...I thought I might get a magical folder appear on the desktop
<MartijnVdS> ball: you get a magical folder in ~/Ubuntu\ One
<MartijnVdS> ball: as long as "Files" is enabled, I guess
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I'm going afk.. sorry
<HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/569060/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: try removing the vimrc and then re-adding each line (one at a time) to find the bug
<MartijnVdS> ah
<HazRPG> also, sshd not found
<MartijnVdS> ^M -> Windows line-endings :)
<ball> MartijnVdS: Thanks
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: apt-get install ssh
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: it pops up with an error for all lines, so I'm guessing wget not possible ^^
<ball> I'm off to bed for an hour or two
<HazRPG> oh see I thought it was just ssh - thought sshd was a new one or something xD
<ball> thanks again
<HazRPG> ball: night dude :)
<HazRPG> snap
<AlanBell> morning peeps
<shauno> just found a post showing how to get ssh/pam to work with google's "2-part auth" tokens.  Can't quite decide whether this is a good thing or not
<AlanBell> shauno: what does that mean?
<AlanBell> log on to ubuntu using your google credentials?
<shauno> regular user/pass, but with the pin from their software token also
<shauno> (specifically adding it to /etc/pam.d/sshd; not suggesting it'd be remotely sensible for local auth)
<shauno> http://www.mnxsolutions.com/security/two-factor-ssh-with-google-authenticator.html
<HazRPG> AlanBell: morning my good man
<HazRPG> shauno: top of the morning to ya
<HazRPG> shauno: hmmm... ssh... pam... *gust of wind rushes over my head*
<HazRPG> I've currently got a putty window to my vm ubuntu server open... and all I see is "hazrpg@hedgehog:~$" and I'm thinking... "is it doing anything??"
 * HazRPG really wishes his knowledge in linux server was much better than knowing nothing
<HazRPG> I blame microsoft for this and college
<HazRPG> all the college ever taught us was how to setup and manage a windows server :/
<HazRPG> ironically, in the last year they said "oh... guess what linux server is much better than windows server" and we all went "then why did we bother getting taught windows server!?" ... seems the reason is because most corps/colleges/uni's use windows server more than linux servers
<AlanBell> HazRPG: top
<shauno> at that point it's doing exactly the same thing Terminal does in gnome.  It's waiting for you :)
<AlanBell> or for more pretties
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install htop
<AlanBell> htop
<AlanBell> press q to get back to the command prompt
 * AlanBell waves at czajkowski 
<czajkowski> AlanBell: morning
<AlanBell> morning
<czajkowski> AlanBell: how did you know I was awake
<shauno> natty in a vm, I appear to get gnome with a global menubar going.  Is that the fallback if I'm missing accel?
<AlanBell> it is farnham beerex ticket day tomorrow
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I felt a disturbance in the force
<czajkowski> indeed
<HazRPG> AlanBell: ooooooo, I really like that!
 * HazRPG gives AlanBell >9000 points of awesome
<AlanBell> nom http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12505344
<HazRPG> AlanBell: heh you use the pidgin plugin too?
<AlanBell> no, I use irssi
<HazRPG> AlanBell: hmm...
<AlanBell> what pidgin plugin did you mean?
<HazRPG> "Psychic Mode"
<HazRPG> C&P from the plugin info: "Causes conversation windows to appear as other users begin to message you."
<HazRPG> and it always shows something similar to "I fell a disturbance in the force"
<HazRPG> feel*
<HazRPG> AlanBell: htop is sexy :)
<HazRPG> wow, apparently there's 10 /usr/sbin/mysqld running, is that normal?
<AlanBell> threads
<HazRPG> ah, so these aren't individual processes, its just all the threads running
<AlanBell> no, I just watched star wars the other day
<HazRPG> wow, 74MB used... I think my win2003 server uses a minimum of 300MB... and that's with most services turned off
<HazRPG> AlanBell: you know what, I've still not ever watched star wars (yes I know that's bad...)
<AlanBell> it is!
<HazRPG> I'll get round to it one day :/
<HazRPG> it just isn't on the top of my massive to-do list
 * HazRPG should really learn where stuff gets stored in linux
<AlanBell> there is a factoid for that, which I will now get wrong . . .
<AlanBell> !fsh
<HazRPG> or rather debian/ubuntu in this case (because if I recall it uses a few different ones)
<AlanBell> yup, thought I would get it wrong
<HazRPG> :P
<AlanBell> !filesystem
<lubotu3> An explanation of how files and directories are organized on Ubuntu, and how they can be manipulated, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview  see also: man hier
<daubers> Morning
<HazRPG> wow, shocked at how many I actually already knew
<AlanBell> fhs is the abbreviation I never get right
<HazRPG> FHile System lol
<HazRPG> someone clearly extended the F sound in fhs
<daubers> Thought it was hfs
<HazRPG> see hfs would make more sense
<daubers> hierarchical file system
<HazRPG> exactly
<AlanBell> I was going for file system hierachy
<HazRPG> so is it hfs?
<AlanBell> files, dirs, file, fhs, filesystem are aliases for that factoid
<daubers> No, it is FHS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
<HazRPG> random
<AlanBell> http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi?search=filesystem
<AlanBell> the brain of the bot ^^
 * HazRPG is so glad he knows the man command
<daubers> hfs is the osx filesyste
<daubers> m
 * daubers goes to work
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<HazRPG> is there a big difference from cron and crond?
<shauno> that's an odd one.  sort of, but no. (cron doesn't really exist ;)
<HazRPG> oh
<shauno> think of it as 'cron' is a task; and 'crond' is the actual daemon that sits in the background fulfilling that task
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> like when apache calls itself a httpd.  it's not a http.  apache isn't the protocol.  it's the bit of software responsible for answering that protocol
<HazRPG> which would be why it has a d at the end (maybe? d = daemon?)
<shauno> bingo
<HazRPG> see I remember when apache use to actually be shown as a process in windows as "apache.exe" it really confused me when I saw "httpd" at first
<HazRPG> see I've used cronjobs before, but never via from a terminal
<HazRPG> always used cpanel or similar
<HazRPG> I know what sort of things to type into a cronjob, but where would I store it?
<HazRPG> seems like there's a few places from what I can see
<HazRPG> /etc/crontab for example
<HazRPG> although that's system-wide and probably wouldn't be the best place unless it was doing backups
<HazRPG> cd /etc/cron.d
<HazRPG> oops, wrong window
<shauno> if it's a job that's going to belong to 'you', crontab -e
<AlanBell> I would always do crontab -e
<AlanBell> or sudo crontab -e if you want root's crontab
<shauno> it creates the appropriate file if it doesn't exist, and does some sanity checking
<HazRPG> does that just store it in /home/<user>/
<AlanBell> in /var/spool/cron/crontabs according to man crontab
<HazRPG> heh, yeah I was just looking through that after I typed my question
<HazRPG> okay, so by my estimation... /var/spool/cron/crontabs/hazrpg would be created if I made a cronjob
<AlanBell> incidentally, if you are looking at man pages, the command line luurve tip on this episode is rather handy :) http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2009/09/17/s02e13-the-tribe-of-gum/
<HazRPG> AlanBell: noted
 * HazRPG clicks play
<HazRPG> been going through the latest season of the podcast recently
<HazRPG> really liking it
<HazRPG> although people who come into the room when I have it playing go "what the ..."#
<HazRPG> man I hope to be as good as you guys one day
<HazRPG> hmm, this is interesting... just trying out this "fiery cola" from tescos
<HazRPG> "with a hint of chilli"
<HazRPG> how odd
<HazRPG> AlanBell: ooo apparently there's a bit of PXE in this, interesting was talking MartijnVdS about this earlier :)
<HazRPG> interesting; I was*
<HazRPG> I need a 3rd monitor for desktop widgets lol
<HazRPG> this seems too good to be true: http://webhostingfirm.co.uk/
<DJones> Who is it thats growing chilli's http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12505344
<HazRPG> DJones: secretly its me
<HazRPG> buahahaha
<HazRPG> nah, isn't it Nick Woods?
<HazRPG> I'm sure it said his name on the site and in the audio interview
<DJones> HazRPG: Pretty sure its either AlanBell or theopensourcerer
<HazRPG> oh...
<HazRPG> heh I thought you meant the guy that the interview was about
<DJones> No, not this time, someone here likes growing chilli's
<HazRPG> DJones: could be AlanBell since he linked it
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer is the chilli fiend, I have grown them a few times but I don't have any on the go at the moment
 * daubers needs to set off some chillis soon
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] Cape Town; Talks - http://philbull.livejournal.com/58159.html
<Neoti> hi people.... im back on the media center question .... sorry.... i have been using XBMC and love it however would this work with ubuntu 64bit and XBMC IE would it be smooth etc ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkuV6RCPIuM&NR=1
<gord_> Neoti, ion chips work fine with ubuntu and xbmc
<gord_> i run one myself
<gord_> ... tail? again?!
<Neoti> cool
<Neoti> is it smooth on a ion box tho
<Neoti> i dont want video stuttering etc
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7snWiHvpwc
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone,
<nucc1> does rsync automatically follow symlinks?
<Neoti> ok im going to buy ZOTAC ZBOX Blu-ray HD-ID34 and have ubuntu 10.10 and xbmc on there, but in the video it shows using cyberlink, will ubuntu handdle the blueray stuff ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24jEyaGYNzw&feature=related
<BigRedS> nucc1: by default, yeah. There's a few options to control how it handles htem
<nucc1> cool, thanks, i was just a little confused about what it does with symlinks by default
<gord> Neoti, no, blu-ray is heavily drm'ed, only official blu-ray players can play back blu-ray's
<brobostigon> weird, i just got lagged off.
<dutchie> so did lots of people
<brobostigon> ah, i see.
<brobostigon> :(
<Neoti> gord, so ubuntu can not play bluray etc ?
<brobostigon> there might be something inside vlc to do it,
<gord> Neoti, not without an official player, you can decrypt some old blu-ray stuff but i wouldn't recommend it, the same is true of any platform though
<gord> if you want something to play blu-rays, honestly you need a blu-ray player, a ps3 or something
<denny> oog
<denny> got a guy in ##linux who has installed activestate perl over his ubuntu perl and made a mess
<denny> http://paste.ubuntu.com/569161/
<denny> that's the output from trying to apt-get install perl
<denny> any idea how to get him back to ubuntu-packaged perl?
<raheel> need help to set max pages per JOB while printing to avoid accidental printing of huge amount of pages is it even possible
<raheel> hasnt anyone setup a print server before???
<ball> AlanBell: Fork liked your chicken video.
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> I should do more chick flicks I think
<popey> :D
<nigelb> lol
<nigelb> and AlanBell joins the long list of directors who've done chick flicks :p
<AlanBell> popey has held a chicken, I just failed to take a photo at the time
<popey> :)
<popey> next time
<popey> I'll bring my HD camcorder :)
<AlanBell> beerfest
<popey> oooo
 * ball <- running Ubuntu 10.10 for a change.
<ging> was it a live chickedn or 1 ready to be cooked/eaten?
<nigelb> it was with 3 live chicken
<AlanBell> quite lively
<nigelb> AlanBell: what happened to Hermione?
<ball> Hello other alan_
<AlanBell> nigelb: a sad ending :(
<nigelb> AlanBell: :(
<nigelb> oh, Google Doodle for cricket
<AlanBell> ging: http://twitpic.com/1qdq0f
<ging> AlanBell: basicly you have covered all 3 in that single picture
<nigelb> 3?
<ging> well there are lives ones and 1 that looks cooked on 1 side and raw on the other side
<AlanBell> heh, don't eat that!
<AlanBell> it is raw, but marinated on one side with a spicy marinade, the other side is for the kids
<ging> the kids do not like flavour?
<AlanBell> not if it includes nandos hot sauce
<nigelb> heh
<brobostigon> i think it might be worth my while to run natty, as debian, does not have an uptodate gnome-shell version, whereas natty has a gnome-shell daily ppa.
<brobostigon> that will mean doing the bzr ssh key setup, that i did yesterday, alover again.
<domjohnson> Wow.
<domjohnson> The new Chrome for Linux ad is really pretty clear
<domjohnson> Targets Linux users well
<domjohnson> Then again, it probably won't work - it targets the real 'hard core' linux users - developer-ey people, who I would imagine are also the ones more into OSS
<domjohnson> *FOSS
<MartijnVdS> FLOSS 8-)
<gord> i thought chrome was just the google branded version of chromium?
<MartijnVdS> it is
<Azelphur> hahaha, got my Desire Z to 1.8ghz
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: then it exploded?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: quite possibly, I am noticing that wifi won't work
<Azelphur> but I got my 2.7k+ quadrant score :D
<gord> does it have to power down after you get past the boot animation because of low battery now?
<Azelphur> gord: nope, that's what the 3000mAh extended battery is for
<nigelb> domjohnson: linky?
<nigelb> gord: lol
<gord> sigh, i wish i could get a bigger battery for my netbook, they only make 3 cell ones :(
<Azelphur> gord: my phone has a higher clock than my netbook now lol
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/February%202011/screenshot.png
<gord> my netbook is honestly, just a phone with a keyboard/big display
<Azelphur> hehe
<gord> i think 1.6 ghz? dual core arm
<nigelb> gord: so your netbook can make cals?
<nigelb> *calls
<gord> nigelb, maybe, does have a 3g bit, but the stock android didn't have call support
<gord> the insides are honestly just a cellphone and empty space
<nigelb> oh, didn't know that.
<gord> http://www.netbooknews.com/wp-content/2010/09/inside-ac100-550x412.jpg the insides
<gord> tis arm, they don't even know how to make things not small ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<domjohnson> nigelb - I can't find a link to the advert - you'll probably come across it at some time soon, though, if you're ofteno n Google AdSense sites
<gord> if they were smart they would of just filled all that empty space with battery, shame really
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> gord: I'm guessing most of your work involving ssh-ing to servers, etc?
<gord> when you work on a window manager, yes, ssh'ing in is rather useful as if you try and gdb compiz from inside a compiz controlled display, things get messy ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: also, screen :)
<nigelb> heh
<duncan_> duncan
<duncan_> hello all
<BigRedS> hello
<duncan_> Hi I seem to have stumbled in here   Whilst trying to configure my  Web cam :(
<BigRedS> duncan_: I might not be much use, but on the offchance I am (or someone else reads this :) ), what're you trying, what happens, and what do you expect to happen?
<duncan_> Not sure realy   bought the thing to skype with on the windoze  but it seems to have a conflic with the Monitor...  Thought I might try it on the linux but cant seem to find a suitable driver  for it ..
<AlanBell> what model is it?
<duncan_> SPC230NC  it did work but then the monitor stopped displaying.  The monitor is fine as iá¸¿ using it now
<duncan_> Sorry thats a Philips
<AlanBell> duncan_: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1009490
 * AlanBell pops out to the shops o/
<duncan_> Thanks Alan
<TheOpenSourcerer> RMS is on tour in the UK in March: http://www.theiet.org/local/emea/europe/richard-stallman.cfm
<MartijnVdS> Close all doors & windows
<MartijnVdS> stay inside
<MartijnVdS> etc.?
<gord> when you say it like that, it just sounds like he is in a band ;)
<gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJJzqSFfXs this band comes to mind, i would imagine him as grandpa dizzy there
<popey> we requested an interview with RMS
<MartijnVdS> gord: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ
<popey> he said yes under certain conditions
<popey> 1) We refer to GNU/Linux, not Linux.
<popey> 2) We refer to Free Software, not Open Source
<popey> 3) He be allowed to criticise Ubuntu
<popey> 4) We release the show in Ogg format only.
<MartijnVdS> ...
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - At least he sticks to his principles I guess.
 * AlanBell suggested a solution to #4
<grogoreo> hi
<popey> :)
<gord> AlanBell, out of interest, what was the solution?
<AlanBell> come round and pose the same interview questions to my chickens for the MP3 version
<grogoreo> I'm trying to rip a CD with Sound Juicer/Rhythmbox. MP3 isn't working (the bitrate doesn't keep to what I set) so am using AAC which works fine but is missing tags for the artist and track though they come up in the file and folder names. Any ideas how I can change this?
<MartijnVdS> grogoreo: the bitrate is variable, with the set value as an average
<MartijnVdS> grogoreo: this means it can take a few more bits for "hard" parts, and can skip a few on "easy" parts
<MartijnVdS> giving better quality for the same file size
<Myrtti> fortunately I have a brilliant excuse not to go listen RMS in Cambridge
<Myrtti> I was getting worried I'd be forced to go
<grogoreo> MartijnVdS, but I've set the quality to a high number and even on a long song much alot going on the file size seems low. Also here said there is a problem with gstreamer and lame https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CDRipping
<MartijnVdS> grogoreo: rip to flac, rhythmbox understands it, and will auto-convert to a format your mp3 player understands :)
<MartijnVdS> also, it's lossless
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: I thought we were moving away from Rhythmbox as the default? :-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: banshee does the same thing
<grogoreo> hmm, that's going to take awhile. I've got a lot of CDs to rip.
<MartijnVdS> also banshee is buggy
<MartijnVdS> grogoreo: I have 400, did it in a weekend :)
<grogoreo> you're just showing off!
<MartijnVdS> no really
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: is it? I've been using it for quite some months with less issues than with rhythmbox now :-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: it doesn't stop at the end of an album for me
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: it keeps looping
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: hmm. I don't use it that way, but have you tried turning off repeat? :-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: repeat is off :)
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: how sure are you about that? ;-)
<MartijnVdS> very
<Nafallo> checked the source code and verified the button is actually supposed to do something? ;-)
 * brobostigon returns
 * BigRedS linefeeds
 * brobostigon struggles with natty.
<BigRedS> I gave up on natty a couple of weeks a go. I just can't get used to unity
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you can get the old desktop by choosing it from the login screen
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: ah, the whole point of trying natty was to see if I liked unity :) It's only a VM
<brobostigon> BigRedS: the whole ofgnome, including unity, seems to be taking every opportunity to freeze, die and or more, atevery evailable opportunity.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: yeah, it's stories like that which are putting me off sticking it on real hardware
<brobostigon> BigRedS: so i am on unity-free, and most of the indicators and that stuff wont even loads and or crashes.
<AlanBell> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/
<popey> blimey, you're quick!
<Nafallo> hmmm. where did the rest of the site go? :-)
<popey> into git :)
<liminal> hi
<liminal> I need to view a website as if it was rendered in IE but from within ubuntu
<liminal> I dont want to use WINE
<liminal> are there any other options?
<BigRedS> There's that site that shows screengrabs of what it'd look like in other browsers
<BigRedS> but I can't remember what it's called. Or a virtual machine, but that requires a Windows license
<popey> browsershots.org
<liminal> great perfect
<liminal> thanks guys
 * jacobw bookmarks browsershots.org
<popey> i used to run a server for browsershots
<popey> before it got sold
<lunchie> theres also a plufin for firefox called ie tab
<lunchie> plugin even oops spelling
<penguin42> hmm browsershots is having problems resolving the IP of my webserver
<BigRedS> lunchie: that does require an IE install, though, doesnt it?
<jacobw> does changing your hostname break ubuntu one sync'ing?
<lunchie> not entirely sure havnt used it in a while, just remebered it when i saw what people were talking about
<jacobw> it does require an ie installation
<gord> BigRedS, yeah
<gord> i never saw the point in it, why not just load up ie
<Azelphur> ali1234: if you play emulators or games on your N900, have you seen this? http://www.game-gripper.com/product_p/401.htm
<Azelphur> I just bought one for my DZ :D
<ali1234> nice, but the N900 isn't really any good for emulators
<ali1234> the combination of X11 and pulseaudio makes it significantly slower than the pandora which uses the same CPU
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> even the snes emulator does not run at full speed
<Azelphur> ouch, I could run SNES on my G1 easy
<Azelphur> My G2 can do PSX
<gord> doesn't the n900 have acceleration drivers for X11?
<ali1234> yes, it does
<ali1234> graphics acceleration does not help emulators very much
<gord> it does when it comes to scaling, which i'm assuming is what your saying is making it slow
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> what is making it slow is no direct pixel access, and no direct sound access
<gord> yeah, no, X11 isn't that slow, for real
<ali1234> it is on the N900
<gord> i can see pulse slowing it down though
<gord> does the N900 have more than a 200mhz cpu?
<ali1234> because the N900 uses compositing
<ali1234> so if you emulate a framebuffer, like any emulator does, you have to write pixels into sys memory, then copy that to graphics memory, which renders it, then copy it back into system memory so it goes out the video controller
<ali1234> the result is that any application that needs pixel access can never get more than about 20-25 FPS
<gord> yeah i work on a window manager, i know how they work, it still shouldn't be that slow
<ali1234> maybe you could fix maemo. oh wait, it's all closed source. never mind then
<Azelphur> ali1234: btw, I've got my G2 running at 1.8ghz now :D
<DJones> Evening all
<tatie> got a small porblme here. my digital camera. it used to automount ok but now it doesn't recognise it and it doesn't mount.
<tatie> hello. anyone knows the solution?
<tatie> nevermind...
<Azelphur> tatie: could try running tail -f /var/log/messages
<Azelphur> or just leaving while waiting a total of 2 minutes
<Azelphur> :P
<raluxgaza> Hey guys what's your favourite music player, I am looking for something like winamp on windws with excellent sound quality
<directhex> most players use the same underlying playback libraries
<Azelphur> raluxgaza: if you like winamp, check out audacious
<Azelphur> it's very winamp like
<raluxgaza> Azelphur, thanks just installed it thanks to other recommendations elsewhere and it's sweet
<Azelphur> :)
<nucc1> is there a handy way to remove old, no longer needed kernels?
<nucc1> i seem to have amassed quite a number of them over the years :p
<Azelphur> Is there anything I can use to capture mic in and speaker out for call recording?
<Azelphur> anyone? where are all the pulseaudio fanatics :p
<Azelphur> as to why it needs to be so difficult to record speaker output I have no idea, tried various screencasting tools that are supposed to do it to no avail
<popey> Azelphur: "call recording"?
<Azelphur> popey: yea, I want to make a call with google voice and record it :P
<Azelphur> I want to play "Phone the DoS kiddies parents"
<popey> never done that
<Azelphur> could be hilarious, if not no harm no foul :p
<popey> I believe jack is good at routing speaker output to be recorded
<Azelphur> sounds like a nightmare :(
<Azelphur> might start up a windows VM to do it
<popey> I'd do it in hardware
<Azelphur> popey: how so?
<popey> i.e. use a real phone and speaker phone
<Azelphur> calling USA on a landline >:(
<AlanBell> is cheaper than you think
<Azelphur> AlanBell: not when you consider that my parents are bad about calling local mobiles let alone USA :P
<Azelphur> I could do it from my mobile
<Azelphur> but I have a feeling mobile to usa landline would be very expensive
<popey> \o/ speculation
<Azelphur> indeed
<popey> you could y'know, look this stuff up
 * AlanBell speculates usa rates are lower than landline -> mobile rates
<popey> +1
<popey> its cheaper to phone the USA from my mobile than it is from my home phone
<Azelphur> weird :p
<popey> I also wouldn't advocate phoning people who you believe may be DDoSing you
<popey> dodgy ground legally
<Azelphur> just a DoS kiddie I iptabled it in seconds
<Azelphur> it'll be some kid with a generic server downing tool
<Azelphur> not distributed, all from one host
<ubuntuuk-planet> [admin] Ubuntu UK Podcast Series 4 Episode 1 - http://ubuntu-uk.org/2011/02/19/ubuntu-uk-podcast-series-4-episode-1/
<ali1234> calling USA costs 70p per minute on t-mobile
<ali1234> on payg it's 90p per minute
<Azelphur> ouch :P
<Azelphur> Â£10+ for a phone call doesn't seem like my cup of tea
<Nafallo> hmm. so when is that podcast hitting the mirrors? ;-)
<Azelphur> time to break out the 7 vm I guess
<popey> you're breaking out a windows 7 VM to make a phone call?
<popey> *boggle*
<Azelphur> popey: no other way to record it :/
<ali1234> you could always just read the pulseaudio docs
<popey> no other way _you know of_ to record it
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'd like to get this done today as opposed to tomorrow :P
<Azelphur> popey: or anyone else apparently :D
<ali1234> for maximum amusement call them at like midday here when it is 5am there
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> i know for a fact it is possible
<Azelphur> ali1234: first I just want to have a sensible conversation with $parent to see if I can't get $child repremanded
<Azelphur> if it turns out that $child is actually $adult I'll just give all the information to the /b/ wolves they can have fun with it
<ali1234> how did you get the number anyway? it could be fake or any number of things
<ali1234> inb4 not your personal army
<Azelphur> ali1234: DoS attack came from one IP which is a comcast address hosting a small business website
<Azelphur> ali1234: and the same IP was the one playing on the game server giving the threats
<Azelphur> so it's probably not a proxy (playing FPS games through a proxy would suck), but it may well be
<Azelphur> small business website has contact info on it.
<ali1234> what type of business is it? web design?
<Azelphur> http://RTR-Online.Com
<ali1234> hmm
<Azelphur> so I figure give it a call ask a few questions it's either an innocent business that's got a security vuln to be aware of, or it's daddies business, or it's the attackers business
<Azelphur> which ever one it is it should end up bad for the attacker so *shrug*
<ali1234> seems more like it could be an employee of that business
<Azelphur> maybe
<ali1234> if you get them fired you'll be making a proper enemy
<Azelphur> I like proper enemies they are fun
 * popey cuddles marxjohnson 
<marxjohnson> The page is alright, then? ;)
<popey> it's great!
<marxjohnson> what's the :)
<marxjohnson> damn
<marxjohnson> switching channels while typing
<marxjohnson> Who's the person who sent us the new design?
<popey> I should dig that name out!
<popey> its the guy behind kazam
<marxjohnson> popey?
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~and471
<popey> him
<marxjohnson> cool cheers
<popey> feel free to mail him flowers or something :D
<marxjohnson> Just want to make sure we give him lots of credit :-)
<popey> yes, completely!
<popey> glad you mentioned it
<popey> gonna drop him a quick mail to say we're using bits of it
<marxjohnson> cool, can you ask him what name/URL he wants us to put? I'll stick it in the footer and the theme's metadata
<popey> wilco
<n1md4> evening.  has anyone here used gfs2 with pacemaker?  (yes, I know I've posted in the 'wrong' channel, but the guys over 'there' aren't as chatty)
<popey> n1md4: never heard of either, sorry
<n1md4> popey: thanks anyway :)  Turns out kicking with a quick reboot was enough
<n1md4> It's to do with cluster failover stuffs
<popey> sounds fun :D
 * popey goes to bed
<popey> ;)
<dogmatic69> lol, installing xp on virtualbox, 'time remaining 25min' but going down 1min ever 10ish seconds :D
<n1md4> night
<HazRPG> n1md4: night dude
<n1md4> heh!  was saying night to popey, but thanks :)
<n1md4> How you doing?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-20
<HazRPG> I've got an interesting question for you guys; about encryption.
<HazRPG> I've been looking at this: http://shop.kernelconcepts.de/product_info.php?products_id=119
<HazRPG> which is essentially a SIM card type reader
<HazRPG> supposedly for encryption
<HazRPG> and I recall MartijnVdS linking me to this: http://www.g10code.com/p-card.html
<HazRPG> I was wondering, how would these two together work to store and retrieve PGP keys
<HazRPG> would I have to write my own set of applications, or can I use existing ones... and if so which existing ones would word
<hazrpg-irssi> thought i'd see what the fuss with irssi was about :P
<ali1234> you can run it in screen
<ali1234> that's the only reason to use it
<hazrpg-irssi> hmm
<hazrpg-irssi> I have installed screen too, but unsure how to use it
<ali1234> "screen"
<ali1234> (run some program)
<ali1234> ctrl-a d
<ali1234> screen -r
<hazrpg-irssi> so for example screen irssi
<ali1234> you don't need to supply arguments, it gives you a shell
<hazrpg-irssi> ah
<hazrpg-test> hmm this is rather cool
<HazRPG> hi hazrpg-test
<hazrpg-test> wow, session is kept in tack, that is pretty wicked :D
<hazrpg-test> I'm guessing there's a way to name screens
<HazRPG> Lunchie: oh hey dude :D
<HazRPG> Lunchie: your up late dude
<Lunchie> HazRpg heya dude
<Lunchie> was working tilll 11
<HazRPG> ah
<Lunchie> and was on the phone to rach till 3 lol
<HazRPG> ah lol :P
<HazRPG> been looking into OpenPGP and storing the keys onto either a SIM or chip-embedded card
<HazRPG> these are the cards http://www.g10code.com/p-card.html
<HazRPG> and if your pc/laptop doesn't have a reader you can use this for the SIM version: http://shop.kernelconcepts.de/product_info.php?cPath=1_26&products_id=119
<HazRPG> apparently it works with the GnuPG tools (which is what the keyring in ubuntu uses if I recall)
<HazRPG> Lunchie: I just cracked open my Duff beer ;)
<HazRPG> Lunchie: what you up to anyways?
<HazRPG> man I love hak5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vaac19G2p8A&t=1m18s
<lazarus_>  i set up a virtual network ok
<lazarus_> <lazarus_> now to implement it tomorrow
<phonex01> how can i open .vce file used by " Visual Certexam" in ubuntu without using wine to install the Visual certexam ?
<AlanBell> morning all o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * AlanBell has beerex tickets
<AlanBell> for popey and czajkowski and TheOpenSourcerer and others
<popey> yay AlanBell
<AlanBell> the alarm didn't go off at 3:30 as it was supposed to (set to weekdays only)
<AlanBell> woke up at 06:00, got down there at 06:05
<AlanBell> the only thing they were sold out of by the time I got in was saturday lunchtime
<popey> wow, lucky!
<AlanBell> so Friday evening for Beer + Curry \o/
<hcfd> AlanBell, you get up at 3.30am on weekdays?
<HazRPG> is this for next year?
<AlanBell> hcfd: nope! I just changed the time of the alarm, but forgot the day scope thing
<AlanBell> HazRPG: this year, April 15th
<hcfd> AlanBell, ohh! I thought for a moment that you'd cottoned onto an optimal sleep routine the rest of us were missing out on :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: thought beerex was an annual thing, hasn't this years already been on the 4/6th ?
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farnham_Beer_Exhibition
<HazRPG> AlanBell: ah, I thought you meant this: http://www.beerex.co.uk/
<popey> Looking forward to it!
<alexcockell> Do you guys try to turn up for the CAMRA beer fest in Reading?
<popey> I havent ever
<HazRPG> wow, this is immense (if your interesting in time & space): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OFThORmR-s&feature=channel
<AlanBell> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> I see you got the tickets.
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> a successful recovery from an alarm clock fail
<TheOpenSourcerer> Big queue?
<AlanBell> over the bridge and halfway to the road
<TheOpenSourcerer> What time did you get there?
<AlanBell> 06:05 ish
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey.
<AlanBell> from waking up at 06:00 ish
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> that was quite late.
<AlanBell> yes!
<AlanBell> they had only sold out of saturday lunch by the time I got to the desk
<alexcockell> People ACTUALLY wake up or more.. get up at 6 on SUNDAYS?
<AlanBell> I was intending to be up at 04:00
<TheOpenSourcerer> alexcockell: I didn't.
<TheOpenSourcerer> In fact I have been up for about 15mins
<alexcockell> I may have come round and whipped the APAP mask off around that time..
<AlanBell> I was going to take a frying pan, burner and sausages to cook in the queue
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12505344
<TheOpenSourcerer> "It was all a bit worrying. The burn on my tongue lasted half an hour  and the effects went on and on. At one point I was doubled over in pain  and thinking about ringing the hospital."
<daubers> Morning
<dve> If I create a file in a symlink'ed folder, does that file get created in the target folder only?
<daubers> \o/ New bluetooth kit in car means I can listen to the new UUPC while driving
<daubers> Is there anyway to edit an icon for an app in the Unity task bar thing?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: awwww you rock, thought it was boys only :p
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yeah, I think I may have missunderstood the "boys night out" concept slightly
<AlanBell> there is a whole room of cider and perry barrels
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> shall lock myself away!
<czajkowski> and it's on a Friday ?
<AlanBell> yes
<iulian> Morning.
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<bigcalm> Anybody with experience of editing PDFs in linux?
<bigcalm> Editing existing PDFs that is
<directhex> bigcalm, editing how far?
<bigcalm> directhex: deleting and editing existing text
<HazRPG> wow, found this link on my blog that someone posted... Stephen Fry saying happy birthday to GNU (unsure of date): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dcxtEKShXA
<dutchie> oh no, not that again
<directhex> bigcalm, that's nontrivial
<HazRPG> dutchie: heh, I've not see it before
<bigcalm> If I can find Acrobat Writer at home, I'll use that
<bigcalm> Currently visiting my parents and my dad needs to edit things
<czajkowski> bigcalm: the ide of a pdf is to stop folks editing things:)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: one of, not completely though :)
<czajkowski> it's the reson why in my 2nd last job docs were sent in pdf to stop people adding stuff to them
<czajkowski> as they found when .docs were sent if they checked the history in them , small minor edits were made.
<HazRPG> czajkowski: actually the whole point of pdf originally was so that documents would look the same on all platforms it was viewed on - that way it can be printed & viewed in its entirety as the designed/writer intended.
<czajkowski> HazRPG: one reason yes
<HazRPG> it might have changed over the years... but that was the main reason for its creation
<HazRPG> czajkowski: heh .doc is the worst file format on the planet
<HazRPG> some of you may already know this, but .doc can sometimes store other things hidden in the document - however this might have been fixed since then, but it was a long standing bug for a while
 * HazRPG doesn't really keep up to date with microsoft based formats/software very often
<HazRPG> sorry for pointing out the obvious, I'm sure some of you already knew that
<HazRPG> can pdf's actually be locked out completely? As far as I can tell you can convert the pdf to something else and then save it back as a pdf
<dogmatic69> what is a good way to setup wifi to manage all computers connecting to it
<dogmatic69> i was thinking of running my ubuntu box as a dhcp server or something
<HazRPG> there are thousands of ways of doing it, but it just depends on why your doing it, and how many will be connecting to it.
<HazRPG> If its just for internet access, and only a few are going to be connected at any one time, then a regular router configured correctly should suffice.
<HazRPG> However if your concerned with privacy and security, then setting up a server with dhcp, proxy, etc might be a better solution.
<directhex> HazRPG, storig extra innfo in a .doc is a feature, not a bug - but one many don't expect
<Pendulum> hiya
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: id like to set it up like airport wifi maybe
<HazRPG> directhex: Hmm, if you mean extra descriptions about the .doc, who created it etc, then yes that's a feature. However I was talking about what I read a few years back about .doc files storing previously opened documents into newly created ones - which may, or may not, contain sensitive information
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: how'd ya mean?
<dogmatic69> mostly for fun, some for pissing off the person sponging of my internet
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: like when you connect it only will load a custom page
<dogmatic69> and then you would normally pay / enter a pw to access anything else
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: if I recall that's what the use of a proxy server is for
<HazRPG> but I might be wrong
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: sounds about right
<HazRPG> for it to work like that, then yes you will have to setup a dhcp server
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: don't forget, if you are going to setup a dhcp, that you'll need to turn off the dhcp feature on your router
<jacobw> Am I right in thinking that with Apache vHosts I can run two websites from the same VPS ?
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: would it work if my pc is connected on wifi?
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: ye i will
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: what do you mean?
<dogmatic69> would it be ok setting up a dhcp server that is only connected via wifi
<HazRPG> oh you mean setting up the dhcp and stuff like that?
<HazRPG> oh, is it a machine that's going to act as the dhcp server?
<HazRPG> a machine connected via wifi*
<HazRPG> its usually best to have a dhcp server as wired
<HazRPG> I'm unsure how it'd work if you had it over wifi
<jacobw> So you want to restrict access to all hosts except your PC, and you want your PC to act as a DHCP server?
<HazRPG> sounds like he wants to setup a gateway of sorts to the internet
<HazRPG> more than anything else
<HazRPG> so that when browsers try to use the internet, it forces them to login first
<jacobw> You'd have to assign a pool of addresses to your PC, it'd be complicated
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: ye that is it, dont have wired for my pc :/ (which would be the dhcp server)
<jacobw> Is there a reason why the obvious solution of encrypting the wireless traffic wouldn't work in this scenario?
<dogmatic69> jacobw: loads of reasons, mostly no good ones.. but they should not be on my wifi :D
<jacobw> That's my point, if you encrypted your wifi traffic then they can't establish a connection with the AP without the encryption key in the first place
<jacobw> can't->couldn't
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: ah, best solution for you would be to block all except MAC addresses you explicitly set - if you want it to be really secure
<MadLeomon> I think the real question is why someone wouldn't encrypt their wifi
<HazRPG> I have my wireless setup in this manner :)
<directhex> so they can run an upside-down-ternet
<dogmatic69> but if they can establish a connection and i piped it though a packet sniffer...
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: dude, if you limit the wifi connects to only a set number of MAC addresses in your house, you shouldn't have any problems
<HazRPG> MAC is a unique code imprinted inside the chips of each network device (network cards, wifi, routers, etc)
<dogmatic69> ye, limiting the connections is easy
<directhex> mac spoofing is trivial
<jacobw> MAC address spoofing isn't particulary difficult, but they would have to know your MAC address, which is easy to learn if your wifi traffic is unencrypted
<dogmatic69> directhex: that is not the point
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: also, using WPA2 or better is a pretty decent security-wise
<HazRPG> specially if you use a nice long access key for it
<dogmatic69> i would like to have more control than just disabling it... like maybe limiting the connection to 10kb/s and other painfull things
<dogmatic69> making 4000 ads show on every webpage
<jacobw> Encrypt your wifi traffic AND set up MAC address filtering AND limit the pool of addresses available to DHCP IF you need to support a variable number of hosts
<dogmatic69> also the other problem is that they are in the house, so its easy for them to reset the router
<jacobw> Why would you want to go to that effort when is easy to prevent unauthorised access
<jacobw> Well, relatively easy compared to other things
<MadLeomon> that's what I've been wondering
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: what he means by set a pool of addresses, he means limit the router to only allow say 3 wifi connections max (e.g. PC, laptop, phone)
<jacobw> This sounds like a social problem rather than a technical problem
<dogmatic69> jacobw: because its more fun
<dogmatic69> jacobw: exactly
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: you do realise if they're able to reset the router, then all settings would die with it too...
<HazRPG> meaning the internet connection settings would die with it also (assuming its not hard coded into the device)
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: even if dhcp is running of a server?
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: yes
<dogmatic69> hmm
<dogmatic69> well that is assuming they know how
<dogmatic69> talking your average windows user that has problems accessing facebook
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: if they can reset it manually, the dhcp would re-enable on the router and since it is the first point of connection for the wifi devices would adopt the IP's from that. Worse case would be that both DHCP's would conflict with each other and would make each computer connected constantly get a different IP address (or even assigned the same IP address)
<dogmatic69> ok
<HazRPG> so it would cause havoc on the network
<dogmatic69> ill just hide the network and change the logins for now
<HazRPG> setting up encryption would be a good start too
<HazRPG> by having it the way you wanted the first time round, you'd be allowing ANYONE to sniff your data
<HazRPG> regardless of whether they could use the internet or not
<jacobw> What router+switch+ap device have you got?
<HazRPG> its scary to think someone would want to have no encryption on their network
<jacobw> How long does it take to break WEP now?
<HazRPG> jacobw: I've done it in less than a minute before using my house router and laptop
<HazRPG> further away you go it takes longer then
<HazRPG> though*
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: WPA2 or WPA-PSK is probably the best encryption you can put on it at the moment (depending on your router though, there might be better)
 * jacobw wonders if there's an Android application for cracking WEP yet
<jacobw> WPA2-PSK is the standard as far as I'm aware
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> also, turn off SSID broadcasting if your really paranoid (however this means when your trying to set up the wireless on other devices, you need to put the name of the SSID manually instead of selecting from a list)
<jacobw> Remembering your SSID is easy though
<HazRPG> set wireless isolation on too (might be called MAC address white list, or wireless station access list, etc)
<jacobw> I haven't thought about disabling SSID broadcasting
<HazRPG> jacobw: really, I always do :)
<jacobw> haven't->hadn't
<jacobw> :p
<HazRPG> just out of pure paranoia
<HazRPG> ... I know way too many people who experiment with rainbow tables
<jacobw> Is there a router+switch+ap avaible that can spoof the MAC addresses of the packets it forwards to the outside world
<jacobw> ?
<HazRPG> jacobw: hmm interesting... not sure if you can do that router side, but I'm pretty sure that the mac address in the packets are usually the thing sending out the information - which in this case would be the router
<jacobw> Oh yeah, of course they would be :s
<HazRPG> my router has mac spoofing, in the sense that you can assign the router to use any mac address you want - I had to do that for my current ISP because I was given a static IP address and was limited to the MAC address of the router they gave me.
<jacobw> I was trying to think of a way to circumvent port security limiting the number of hosts per port
<HazRPG> but I wanted to use my own router
<HazRPG> thankfully when you set it to static, it asks if you want to use the computer's MAC address, the default MAC address, or type in your own.
<HazRPG> jacobw: how so?
<jacobw> http://packetlife.net/blog/2010/may/3/port-security/
<jacobw> bbiab
<HazRPG> what does that stand for?
<HazRPG> jacobw: hmm, I'm not sure about that one
<HazRPG> I'm really liking the dkpg-reconfigure command
<HazRPG> just been using it to configure murmur
<HazRPG> or mumble-server rather
<HazRPG> wow configuring apache on linux is so different!
<HazRPG> or maybe I've just been using an old version of it
<jacobw> I need to learn to configure Apache
<jacobw> wrt vHosts mainly
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<jacobw> afternoon brobostigon
<brobostigon> afternoonings jacobw
<HazRPG> hey brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> hey HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> jacobw: apache is easy when your using a gui and a gui text-editor as I'm use to
 * jacobw uses vim over ssh :p
<jacobw> vim for the win
<HazRPG> I use to setup a shared folder on win2003 which was where the site was hosted and mount it on my machines so that I could drag and drop files and the site would get updated
<HazRPG> but I'm trying to get into the habit of terminal
<jacobw> i think yuo can do that with gnome-vfs
 * HazRPG learned so many commands recently my brain might exploded xD
<jacobw> hehe
<HazRPG> gnome-vfs?
<HazRPG> oh to mount network drives?
<jacobw> yeah
<HazRPG> see that's what I'm looking into at the moment
<HazRPG> im not sure whether it would be best to install samba/samba-server and do it that way, or to install ftp server of some sort and do it that way
<brobostigon> or maybe sshfs?
<HazRPG> because I'm sure ubuntu doesn't mind where drive is that its mounting if I recall
<HazRPG> brobostigon: sshfs?
<jacobw> yeah, i was going to say, samba seems superfluous and ftp seems insecure, so sshfs seems like the best opinion
<brobostigon> HazRPG: filesystem mounting over ssh.
<brobostigon> !info sshfs
<lubotu3> sshfs (source: sshfs-fuse): filesystem client based on SSH File Transfer Protocol. In component main, is optional. Version 2.2-1build1 (maverick), package size 39 kB, installed size 140 kB
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, but would it would in windows?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: not a clue.
<jacobw> i feel your pain, i have to use Windows at work :(
<HazRPG> jacobw: heh, at the moment I'm trying to transition myself completely away from windows - but man I can't help the gamer side of me
<HazRPG> also, this darned keyboard hates anything that isn't windows :/
<HazRPG> stupid proprietary drivers and non-standard hardware!
 * brobostigon has been window free, on his machines, for just around a decade.
<brobostigon> windows*
<brobostigon> ms windows*
<HazRPG> brobostigon: guessing you don't game though?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i certainly do, yes, no as  much as iused to though,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh, shoot... not fair :( I can barely get anything to work properly under wine
<brobostigon> HazRPG: native games dowork better.
<HazRPG> depends on your setup :/
<brobostigon> true.
<HazRPG> I hate two monitors and it plays wild with twinview
<HazRPG> have*
<brobostigon> i see, not tried multi-monitor yet.
<HazRPG> I was playing an ultimate game of tux typing the other day because of it
<HazRPG> words kept flashing up on both screens!
<brobostigon> lol :(
<jacobw> get a console
<HazRPG> first few levels I could cope... but after that it was insane!
<HazRPG> jacobw: can't play most strat games on a console sadly :(
<HazRPG> specially not starcraft
<HazRPG> (despite it being ported over to a few things before)
<HazRPG> SC2 is PC/OSX only :(
<brobostigon> however, my biggest frustration here, is trying to get an uptodate gnome3/gnome-shell on 10.10 without having to run natty. :(
<brobostigon> and natty pretty much died as soon as i installed it, yesterday, despite running fine from liveusb.
<jacobw> ah, i'm more in to the GT/MGS/COD type of games
<HazRPG> I originally went and got a x360 second-hand from someone who was moving away (Â£50 for 2 controllers, console boxed, cables, the works + 4 games) and then a wii and ps3 new... just so I could stay away from gaming on the PC - but sadly I'm not a massive war-shooter kind of guy which seems to be the trend at the moment :/
<jacobw> i just can't be bothered with strategy games, except Fallout, but i wouldn't say thats a strategy game
<jacobw> Â£50 is a cool price for all that
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm, that's odd can you not run into a terminal and remove unity because that might be the issue
<HazRPG> jacobw: fallout is more of an RPG/Shooter - which I like, great mix of shooter and RPG rolled in one
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i ran it without unity, as it still majorly broke, most of gnome, and a few otherthings were seriously broke.
<HazRPG> jacobw: I was hooked over xmas on borderlands which I got gifted via steam - sadly would have been better for it to have it on my ps3 though - because it means another thing that's tying me to windows :/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: latest version of natty?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yesterday mornings daily,
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> jacobw: Â£50 was just for the 360 though, I still bought the wii and ps3 out-right
<HazRPG> I got the 360 before either of those existed though, so it wasn't all bought at the same time
<brobostigon> HazRPG: so i might just use the alternate install, put onto usb, and install cli only, andbuild from there.
<HazRPG> mainly got the ps3 for linux support and media stuff
<HazRPG> which saddens me that they removed the linux support :(
<HazRPG> brobostigon: might be worth just grabbing that last stable version, do your config from there, remove unity, etc then upgrade all your packages
<brobostigon> i did see a ps3 natty build yesterday.
<HazRPG> I say stable, I mean last /working/ version
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah kind of useless unless I put the geohotz cfm though
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i would be happier starting with cli only, as its so basic, i have more control.
<HazRPG> and since he's still in the process of being sued, he hasn't updated it in a while
<brobostigon> yes.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: true...
<HazRPG> I mean grab that last /working/ alternative version and work your way from there
<HazRPG> that way at least you know it won't be heavily broken
<HazRPG> if that makes sense at all
<brobostigon> the alternate i tried yesterday, just plain didnt work.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: heh was doing a bit of googling one night for a discussion I had with someone once and your blog popped up... you put me in your blog :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah but the alt you tried was the daily wasn't it?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: let me check?
<brobostigon> cool, yes i did, :)
<HazRPG> it might be more work, but if you go to the last working copy, and then install gnome-shell, then just update packages one by one until you find one that's broken then just roll it back
<brobostigon> true, yes.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: how did i mention you, and i what context?
<brobostigon> in*
<HazRPG> it was when we were doing the audrino thing :P
<HazRPG> trying to get it to sync the time properly
<brobostigon> ah, thats a while ago now.
<HazRPG> it was!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: and i figured out how to do it, :)
<HazRPG> the annoying thing was, after reading it I thought... one thing we hadn't tried was sending a timestamp and storing it into a variable and having it increment as you'd expect time to, however that would be more processing for the board and I don't know how much resources that would eat up
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh did you?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: the solution, was eventually, getting a gps module, and pulling the time each processing cycle.
<HazRPG> heh, nice little hack :)
<brobostigon> after all, gps has a very accurate time signal, i though well, we cantake avantege of that, and then maybe also use gps for other things later.
<HazRPG> I suppose the other way round would be to see if there was a chip that could be placed onto the board for processing time
<HazRPG> brobostigon: this is very true
<brobostigon> that would still require said chip,toget the time from somewhere to work from.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: well I have a feeling that the include files we were working on should have done the trick, I think the main problem was that the board wasn't processing the time at all
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i still have that code backed up, somewhere,
<HazRPG> hehe
<brobostigon> i willgo find it, inabit.
<HazRPG> I don't think the code was the problem, I mean we both looked at it and it /should/ have worked, I think the problem was that the board isn't/wasn't configured to operate time (I might be wrong)
<brobostigon> i think you might be right, let me find the code again,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: heh, it might have been our execution though ...
<HazRPG> brobostigon: just found this: http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/Time
<brobostigon> ithink we looked atthat lasttime.
<HazRPG> seems someone has made a library for doing time without the need for an external timekeeping hardware
<HazRPG> did we?
<brobostigon> i think so,yes, iremember something like it.
<HazRPG> I don't recall us doing this though: "this sketch by sending T1262347200 using the serial monitor (this sets the time to noon on Jan 1 2010"
<brobostigon> iwould agree, however it needs to work independently  from any device,only itself.
<HazRPG> does the arduino have an internal battery?
<brobostigon> no.
<HazRPG> ah, that might be the problem
<Baikonur> infernal battery, charges from the fires of hell
<brobostigon> it gets power from the main car battery, atthe moment,
<HazRPG> Baikonur: ^^<
<HazRPG> brobostigon: what did we keep doing originally?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: in which aspect?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: were you sending the code off, and then unplugging it and testing it? or was it always kept plugged into the PC?
<HazRPG> because that might be why it was always showing up as if there was no time
<brobostigon> HazRPG: it was kept plugged into pc, now its seperatly powered, in alittle box in the car,and only has a pc connected todebug and upload newcode.
<suprengr> hi u-uk peeps o/
<HazRPG> suprengr: hey dude
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ok the code on that site doesn't show how the time is uploaded to the device, is that were we were going wrong maybe?
<suprengr> just downloaded from Banshee [from 10.04 standard reo] to see what all the fuss is about... first impression... hmm, not that different from Rhythmbox...
<suprengr> *repo
<brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe, yes.
<suprengr> ... but then I thought: "wot, no  'visualisations', & went back to RB?" Am I missing a trick here or is there a use other people are finding which I am not?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: would make sense, the code does process the time, however if we weren't sending it any time information then it would be constantly waiting for time
<HazRPG> suprengr: heh, I haven't tried banshee so I wouldn't know
<HazRPG> I always just use Rhythmbox
<brobostigon> HazRPG: this is why i think the gps idea, was asolution, for it to get the time,from.
 * HazRPG opens up his vm
 * HazRPG installs banshee
<HazRPG> ooo banshee does look nicer
<HazRPG> suprengr: huh, you might be right
<HazRPG> suprengr: there is an extension made by the community to add visualisation support btw :)
<HazRPG> suprengr: try this out: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/enable-visualisations-in-banshee-ubuntu/
<HazRPG> it adds in support for Jamendo and a few other things that Rhythmbox use to be able to do too :)
<HazRPG> they're all extensions so you can tick/untick whichever one you want
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<brobostigon> the net, e4. fairly  good film.
<pr0ph3t> can I limit the bandwidth usage for each user from my ubuntu machine?
<Azelphur> pr0ph3t: each Linux user, or each user on your network?
<pr0ph3t> well the other one is a mac user
<pr0ph3t> so each user on the network Azelphur
<Azelphur> pr0ph3t: not unless your Ubuntu machine is the router :P
<pr0ph3t> so I should distribute the internet through my ubuntu box?
<Azelphur> not unless you want to play most complicated setup ever :p
<brobostigon> couldnt you do the bandwidth  limiting directly on the router, dpeneding on if its capable or not.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: never seen one that is
<brobostigon> Azelphur: i am sure  my router here with openwrt could. forexample.
<pr0ph3t> brobostigon, that would be great if it was possible
<Azelphur> brobostigon: yea, openwrt or dd-wrt was about to be my suggestion
<brobostigon> Azelphur: :)
<Azelphur> pr0ph3t: what router do you have?
<pr0ph3t> netgear with incorporated modem, latest virgin one
<brobostigon> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start
<Azelphur> pr0ph3t: model number :P
<brobostigon> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start#netgear
<brobostigon> or a cheap wrt54* ,and connect that to existing router,?
<pr0ph3t> I'll have a look, thanks guys
<HazRPG> brobostigon: cool, might have to watch that - is it on now?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes.
 * HazRPG wishes he had a tv in here
<brobostigon> HazRPG: you could see if ch4 do a live stream,online thingie,like the bbc and itv.
<daubers> evening
<brobostigon> afternoonings daubers
<brobostigon> more coffee needed.
<Azelphur> http://www.imgzzz.com/i/image_1287658212.jpg haha :D
<Thingymebob> Anyone ever used synfig?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: amgoing to try todays daily, but no install, and see if i can make it persistant.
<brobostigon> bbl.
<jacobw> does anybody do 'the cycle' from 'time management for system administrators' using an android phone as the PDA?
<Paul2> I would like to install wireshark >1.4 on lucid. It's in natty repos. Whats the best way to do this?
<alexcockell> Umm- request backport?
<alexcockell> File a request... wait until devs tell you it's in -backports?
<popey> 10:10:18 < daubers> Is there anyway to edit an icon for an app in the Unity task bar thing?
<popey> edit the .desktop file apparently
<Paul2> oh you need a ubuntu account/login file a bug
<Paul2> sounds like a lot of effort.
<ali1234> backport it yourself
 * mgdm can never be bothered rebuilding packages so compiles them an installs them in /opt
<mgdm> I don't recommend that course of action, I just find it *much* easier
<ali1234> i find it easier to build from the source deb these days
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: xstow - An extended replacement of GNU Stow
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: and/or stow - Organizer for /usr/local software packages
<mgdm> I'm aware of those
<mgdm> wasn't a fan as I recall :)
<ali1234> Paul2: https://launchpad.net/~dreibh/+archive/ppa
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: http://www.gentoo.org/ then :P
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: err - I'm talking abou tthe odd package, not the entire distro :)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: j/k :)
<daubers> What if it doesn't have a .desktop file?
 * czajkowski yawns and waves hi 
<MartijnVdS> daubers: what if what doesn't have a .desktop file?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: A thing in the unity dock
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> Don't use unity, can't stand it
<MartijnVdS> (global menus and left-hand unconfigurable dock)
<popey> daubers: what doesnt have one?
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: i think unity will turn out to be the new wubi, where nobody uses it because you can't get support because nobody uses it...
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWoobie
<daubers> popey: Eclipse
<MartijnVdS> daubers: eclipse is in the menu, so it has a desktop file
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Mine isn't. I installed it from source to fix a few annoying cocmpatibility issues
<daubers> Probably end up making it a .Desktop file
<mgdm> I can send you the one for the built-in Eclipse if you like :)
<mgdm> http://pastebin.com/1tAAgsET
<daubers> mgdm: Ooooh, ta
<mgdm> I have a very difficult decision to make right now
<mgdm> Coffee, or Earl Grey...
<gord> rather bemused as to why amazon is suddenly recommending to me dressese and baby stuff...
<MartijnVdS> gord: it knows :)
<daubers> gord: Best person to ask about that is your missus....
<MartijnVdS> daubers: she'll have to tell him eventually, I guess
<brobostigon> noswaith dda everyone.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: evening
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good evening, :)
 * brobostigon has been kicked out of the living room to watch top gear, my dad has his friends from banbury operatic round, :(
<MartijnVdS> sounds like... time to get your own place ;)
<brobostigon> so flash here we come, :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very, inthe process of that, i am on the housing list,
 * brobostigon doesnt like installing flash.
<brobostigon> atleast i have a beer supply up here.
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
 * MartijnVdS has some home-brewed "Belgian-style" beer his brothers made
<brobostigon> sounds yummy.
<brobostigon> a pilsner or a weizen ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbel ish
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: sounds like an style weizen, to be truthful.
<brobostigon> an old*
<MartijnVdS> it's very yeasty
<MartijnVdS> 8%ish
<brobostigon> :)
 * MartijnVdS moves to the TV
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> ooh, Doctor
<MartijnVdS> ^WAmy
<suprengr> watch out, watch out - there's a Top Gear about [to start]
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: hence my move to the couch :)
<brobostigon> no spolilers,
<popey> ooo
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Top Gear is full of spoilers 8-)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good point, :)
<ali1234> jeremy clarkson is going to blow something up and offend foreigners
 * popey hugs tvcatchup.com
<Paul2> ali1234: cheers, I'm building from source now. meh.
 * brobostigon hugs get_iplayer
<popey> Paul2: its the linux way, you know that
<popey> ugh, flash on nouveau is awful
<ali1234> Paul2: why not just use the PPA i linked?
 * brobostigon keeps his fingers crossed, flash doesnt play up.
<daftykins> hey all :) long time no visit
<MartijnVdS> hey daftyman
<daftykins> what's the situation with flash 10.2 on Linux then? can it with with Lucid?
<daftykins> sorry, i mean can GPU offload work with Lucid?
<ali1234> sure, if you install nvidia driver
<daftykins> this is for on my XBMC nettop, with Ion
<daftykins> hmm, must be an issue then
<ali1234> the issue is that flash developers have a whitelist of drivers that work, just like firefox
<daftykins> because it couldn't handle scaling a video to fullscreen :D
<brobostigon> flash i hammering my cpu here, in 10.10 on my eeepc.
<ali1234> and that whitelist currently contains nvidia driver and nothing else
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> that's quite bias isn't it
<ali1234> it's not bias - the other drivers actually don't work
<ali1234> especially nouveau
<daftykins> i suppose i need to look for that info when right clicking on say, youtube videos to see if it's accelerating or not
<daftykins> anywho, i was trying to watch the engadget show last on my nettop and it couldn't handle the scaling :D
<Paul2> ali1234: saw it after I stared it
<Paul2> but thanks anyway :)
<brobostigon> wow, my eeepc is heating up under flash strain,
<MartijnVdS> *melt*
<brobostigon> i hope not.
<daftykins> brobostigon \o/
<daftykins> is that flash gordon's brother?
<brobostigon> some floyd might chill it out inabit.
<daftykins> my parents are debating throwing away one of my earliest computers
<daftykins> the dan 120MHz Pentium 1 :O
<MartijnVdS> awww
<daftykins> i fired it up, it still works but i'm lacking the location of a DIN keyboard and serial mouse :)
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: the old big plug?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> pre-PS/2
<MartijnVdS> wow
 * brobostigon hugs his bebox, 
<daftykins> 9-pin serial Microsoft ball-mouse :D
 * brobostigon will look after top gear.
 * brobostigon is preferring ubuntu's notifications to debian sid's.
<popey> hi bobobex !
<popey> just the person!
<popey> bobobex: don't suppose you know the name of the script that gets run when you first login to a new crunchbang install?
<bobobex> Hi popey, hang on, I'll check
<bigcalm> Evening popey, power back on then?
<popey> yeah :)
<popey> spent the whole day out
<czajkowski> popey: not having much luck with natty are yiu
<czajkowski> *you
<popey> nope
 * brobostigon neither.
<brobostigon> it hasnt liked me eeepc the lastfew days,
<brobostigon> :'(
<brobostigon> sudo apt-get remove adobe-flash
 * czajkowski goes back to writing her blog post 
<popey> [sudo] password for ptaylor:
<czajkowski> annoying having an idea to write one and then trying to work out what to say so it doesnt offend or piss folks off
<brobostigon> popey: you might be interested to know, its popey, :)
<popey> hah
 * popey hopes bobobex is okay :()
<popey> I always think :() (which was a typo) looks like a monkey face
<bobobex> popey, Got there in the end - it's called cb-welcome
 * popey hugs bobobex 
<popey> please pass that on to his nibs :)
<bobobex> popey, you're welcome & will do (when I see him next)
<gord> i am still bemused and have no idea what to do when i start doing a smiley whilst inside of ( )
<brobostigon> (:'))
<brobostigon> weird
<mgdm> http://xkcd.com/859/
<mgdm> somewhat related :)
<brobostigon> i see,
<brobostigon> i missed that, :(
<popey> love the alt tag
 * brobostigon notices popey's eeepc 900 natty dent,
<gord> not being able to find your screw drivers when you need to screw driver something is llike torture =\
<brobostigon> agreed.
<popey> crunchbang working verynicelyindeed on the eee 900
<brobostigon> ok, crunchbang is based on debian testing isnt it.
<gord> hrm, hard to find space for laptop and two monitors on this desk, i may need to invest in multiple desks
<gord> and maybe hire an engineer to figure out a system where i can spin the desks around me to choose my workstation
<penguin42> gord: You know those things in is it Korean restaurants ....
<mgdm> a "lazy Susan"
<penguin42> well, there's the obscure fact of the day
<mgdm> \o/
<penguin42> cool, didn't know that
<popey> brobostigon: based on debian 6
<popey> according to /etc/debian_version on this eee
<brobostigon> popey: oh, stable, ok.
<brobostigon> wheesy*
<popey> no
<popey> squeeze
<popey> thats what lsb_release reports anyway
<brobostigon> isnt that stable now, ?
<popey> i have no idea
<brobostigon> yes, squeese is stable now,
<popey> this seems to work quite nicely
<mgdm> it was released over the FOSDEM weekend, IIRC
<popey> and has a neat script that runs when you first login
<brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Release_history
<popey> to install lots of extra stuff you might want/need
<d3ngar> hey there
<brobostigon> i think i need to try it,
<brobostigon> noswaith dda d3ngar
<mgdm> Crunchbang was tremendous back when I first got my Aspire One
<d3ngar> I have a problem playing DVDs with pretty much any programme
<mgdm> as it has a dead HD and I need to reinstall anyway, I might try it again
<d3ngar> Tried MPLayer, Totem, VLC
<popey> i do like the feature to install dropbox from a menu item
<popey> thats quite neat
<popey> d3ngar: what problem? do you get an error message of some kind?
<d3ngar> Totem tells me that there is an error reading from the disc
<d3ngar> But the disc is fine, I tried others
<d3ngar> The menu loads okay
<brobostigon> its going to be either debian sid/experimental here, and or natty, to run gnome3/gnome-shell,
<popey> d3ngar: have you done all the silly bits to do with decss?
<d3ngar> dvdcss?
<d3ngar> decss has got no meaning to me
<brobostigon> !info libdvdcss2
<lubotu3> Package libdvdcss2 does not exist in maverick
<popey> !dvd
<lubotu3> Ubuntu's default installation and repositories do not include packages needed to play commercial DVDs for legal reasons. For information on adding them, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs | For information on the legalities involved, see the "DVD" section of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs specifically
<popey> there is a little script you need to run which does the stuff to make DVDs play
<d3ngar> popey: Yeah done that
<popey> no idea then, sorry
<d3ngar> any idea where I could ask?
<popey> tried running vlc in a terminal and see what it says?
<popey> get the specific error message
<d3ngar> know the command?
<brobostigon> vlc, and then do as normal, and look for errors.
<brobostigon> enter*
<d3ngar> yeah, will try
<d3ngar> -v gives verbose output
<brobostigon> yes.
<d3ngar> Interesting
<d3ngar> It says libdvdcss is not available
<d3ngar> I installed this package
<ikonia> ok ubuntu uk'ers lets talk SSD's I need a minimum of 12GB, MLC to keep the cost down, SLC is over kill, what's my best band for buck options,
<brobostigon> d3ngar: do you have libdvdcss from medibuntu ?
<ikonia> I can see an OCZ 120GB  drive that seems to be the best option, but I'm out of the loop
<d3ngar> no
<brobostigon> libdvdcss is the part of vlc that does dvd decoding.
<d3ngar> should be fine to install it from the script?
<d3ngar> brobostigon: there is a script that gets it for you: /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh
<brobostigon> d3ngar: i always justadded medibuntu repo manually, and that installed manually, but i am sure there is a better way now.
<brobostigon> then*
<brobostigon> d3ngar: oh,  i see. i didnt know about that. sorry.
<popey> ikonia: how much do you want to spend?
<popey> ikonia: I just got an Intel X25-M 120GB and love it
<bigcalm> Gah, I hate webkit right now
<popey> 150 quid
<ikonia> popey: that's pretty reasonable
<popey> yeah
<popey> ebuyer
<ikonia> popey: the OCZ I was looking at was 167 including VAT
<ikonia> http://www.scan.co.uk/products/120gb-ocz-technology-vertex-2e-25-sandforce-ssd-mlc-flash-read-285mb-s-write-275mb-s
<ikonia> I'd like a little bigger if possible but the price jumps massive over 120
<d3ngar> brobostigon: do you know where libdvdcss should be located?
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/239663
<brobostigon> d3ngar: in medibuntu.
<popey> 173.34 inc vat, sorry, I dont pay vat
<d3ngar> erm?
<ikonia> and my SLC drive was something stupid like Â£400 for a 600GB drive
<ikonia> popey: well, I don't as it goes through the business
<brobostigon> !medibuntu
<d3ngar> /home/mediabuntu?
<lubotu3> medibuntu is a repository of packages that cannot be included into the Ubuntu distribution for legal reasons - See http://www.medibuntu.org
<popey> ouch
<ikonia> but it's still "there"
<popey> ikonia: exactly
<popey> well, yes
<d3ngar> That's not a location
<popey> d3ngar: just follow the instructions at the link provided
<brobostigon> thanks popey
<d3ngar> but it's already installed, no?
<d3ngar> So where would the file normally be located?
<popey> what file?
<d3ngar> libdvdcss.so?
<popey> have you run /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh ?
<d3ngar> yup
<ikonia> popey: our of interest what device is the SSD in ?
<popey> ikonia: a toshiba laptop
 * d3ngar reads: "Rebooting may be necessary."
 * d3ngar curses
<d3ngar> I'll try to reboot
<d3ngar> I'll let you guys know if that did anything
<d3ngar> ttfn
<popey> hang on
<d3ngar> hanging
<d3ngar> ?
<popey> do you have /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.* ?
<exobuzz> popey, great to see the podcast is coming back. nice one!
<popey> :)
<d3ngar> popey: how can I search for a file?
<popey> just open a terminal and type:-
<popey> ls -l /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.*
<d3ngar> yep, I have it
<popey> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root    18 2011-02-20 22:10 /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.2 -> libdvdcss.so.2.1.0
<popey> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 34808 2008-09-15 16:19 /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.2.1.0
<popey> like that?
<d3ngar> yes
<d3ngar> these two
<exobuzz> i prefer ls -l /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.* | cowsay ;-)
<popey> heh
<popey> d3ngar: no idea why it doesnt work then, you have the libs
<d3ngar> I certainly do
<popey> i would do as previously suggested, run vlc on the command line and see what it does
<d3ngar> Maybe restart is necessary
<popey> unlikely
<d3ngar> VLC told me that I don't have the files to read sestricted
<d3ngar> but I do???
<popey> how odd
<d3ngar> Well
<d3ngar> I shall reboot
<popey> ok
<d3ngar> And return!
<d3ngar> Maybe it has problems with 64-bit?
<brobostigon> weird.
<brobostigon> should be needed,
 * popey shrugs
<popey> I'd get the log
<brobostigon> ?
<brobostigon> vlc's, yes.
<d3ngar> brb
<brobostigon> be careful with /exec boys and girls.
<popey> hmm?
<brobostigon> popey: as it allows output from normal terminal into irssi.
<popey> it does
<popey> if you call it right
<popey>  /exec -o figlet MOO
<popey> vs
<brobostigon> agreed.
<popey>  /exec figlet MOO
<ikonia> ok, SSD purchased
<d3ngar> Well, good new
<d3ngar> s
<d3ngar> news even:
<d3ngar> It works once I restarted
<brobostigon> hmm.
<d3ngar> How retarted
<d3ngar> I feel like it's 1995 again :D
<brobostigon> popey: i agree.
<ikonia> popey: appreciate the input
<ikonia> now I need a "cool" desk positioned powered USB hub
<popey> np ikonia
<popey> ikonia: seen the ones that clamp on the side of the desk?
<ikonia> nope
<popey> so cables drop to the floor rather than go all over the desk
<ikonia> popey: got a link, that looks different
 * brobostigon goes all old fashioned and puts jethro tull on.
<popey> googlin
<ikonia> scan.co.uk are silly they have some offers on SSD drives, you click to buy them and they are on "pre-order"
<ikonia> but it's a today only offer
<popey> http://cableorganizer.com/reviews/read_review.php?page_id=BE-F5U201-KIT
<popey> not what i was thinking but equally neat
<popey> i have 3 such holes in my machine
<popey> s/machine/desk/
<ikonia> that's quite cool, I could use just one more port though as a buffer, 5 - 6 ports would be perfect
<ikonia> actually, 4 will be fine
<ikonia> popey: you are genius today
<popey> haha
<popey> just today
<popey> One day only! Special offer!
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> hey popey, hope you're well
<popey> 1.5 hours left, make the most of it!
<popey> daftykins: hey ho daftykins !
<daftykins> ^_^
<Azelphur> anyone know how much it costs / how to get a second telephone line?
<brobostigon> depends of the telephone operator, i suspect.
<bigcalm> Cost me 50 quid when I got a 2nd line in 2002
<Azelphur> ah I see, so you need to talk to your TSP about it?
<Azelphur> cool
<bigcalm> Or was it 1999?
<popey> http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=bt+cost+of+second+line+installation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
<popey> http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25497
<popey> most houses have two lines already
<popey> gord: if i repeatedly ALT_Tab between two apps in unity, the windows creep cross the screen to the right
<popey> is this known bug?
<popey> Installation is only Â£30 (subject to survey) and will appear on your next bill. No paper-free discount is available on an additional line and a minimum term of 12 month applies.
<popey> Azelphur: from the faq on that site
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> popey: but that's clamped to BT
<popey> well, thats bt prices, sure
<Azelphur> I'm interested in not being clamped to BT
<popey> "Other providers may vary"
<Azelphur> ah I see
<Azelphur> so yea it's as I said gotta ask my provider
 * brobostigon gets everyone a panderyn, :)
<brobostigon> welsh whisky*
<Azelphur> also, since I'm getting a second line
<Azelphur> what's the deal with line bonding? ;)
<popey> "the deal"?
<popey> not all ISPs do line bonding do they?
<popey> AAISP do iirc
<Azelphur> ah, so it has to be supported on the ISPs side
<popey> i think so
<popey> AAISP provide a special box at your end too
<Azelphur> popey: haha, only problem is their data prices are ridiculous
<popey> yup
<brobostigon> native ipv6.
<Azelphur> popey: based on my current usage, Â£235.40/mo :D
<popey> cheaper to get a leased line I'd imagine :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<popey> unless you're in the middle of nowhere
<Azelphur> I was just thinking, Sky do 24mbit for Â£10/mo, and as I'm getting a second line anyway
<popey> symmetric too
<Azelphur> I'm probably in the middle of nowhere
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> to install virtualbox on natty, is the contrib version on the repositories?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-13
<pangolin> kick me you fools
<popey> hmm?
<Gary> fail
<AlanBell> silly pangolin fail
<pangolin> sheesh, one network wode fail and I get all this flack :(
<popey> ah, /amsg
<pangolin> wide
<popey> you plum
<exobuzz> popey, i recently discovered, you can iron scrambled egg, directly on a plate.. i was just thinking next time you are on your trampoline..
<exobuzz> my new non stick iron - i had to test it etc
<exobuzz> not tried steaming veg on the plate yet.. worth a go
<popey> sorry, what?
<popey> eggs between baking paper or something?
<exobuzz> good flat plate.. egg. iron.. mess. fun etc
<popey> hah
<exobuzz> not as much "fun" as when my other half set fire to my microwave though
<exobuzz> naan bread bag. metal got hot. paper caught wire. door of microwave caught fire.. and its the 2nd! time she put metal in it.. heh..
<Gary> ban her!
<exobuzz> she is banned for sure
<exobuzz> i got a new microwave now.. i love it.. anyone who destroys it, gets all meals cooked by iron for the rest of the year as punishment
<exobuzz> s/wire/fire just noticed that
<popey> i removed the door from the oven today
<popey> which was a minor diy achievement
<popey> (I hate diy)
<exobuzz> just for fun ? :)
<popey> no, handle broke
<popey> well, came loose, then undone
<exobuzz> handles are overrated
<popey> screw head is on the inside
<exobuzz> aah
<exobuzz> make sure your dog doesnt climb in!
<popey> hah
<popey> and so.. bed
<exobuzz> in the oven ?
<exobuzz> i dont think removing the door is sufficient to make it acceptable as a bed
<popey> its a big oven, but it aint that big
<exobuzz> but then.. it is you ;-)
<popey> nice and warm though
<exobuzz> hehe
<exobuzz> popey wins on the big factorness ?
<exobuzz> im in your club
<popey> heh
<exobuzz> sleep well
<exobuzz> dont go over 100c
<exobuzz> :)
<Gary> night night popey, i'll be thinking of you
<popey> mwah
<exobuzz> is that "mwahha" laugh or "mwah" juicy kiss
<exobuzz> must be a juicy kiss..
<exobuzz> new ubuntu uk podcast soon. hurray!
<exobuzz> <3 xfce recently..
<exobuzz> productivity as it should be without wondering why my window manager has done something weird
<exobuzz> (not trying to bring up the whole unity debate. just saying)
<exobuzz> 2 machines on xfce now.. one left on an old mint which is going to xubuntu also
<DJones> Morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> Morning
<BigRedS> good morning!
<popey> Morning
 * popey taps his watch and looks at czajkowski 
<czajkowski> popey: morning
<daubers> So I've decided that the internet is a scam to raise the price of tomatoes
<BigRedS> I don't think I've ever done anything tomato related on the internet
<daubers> Exactley! And that's how they get you
<BigRedS> Oh, I see
<daubers> It's a huge distraction so you don't notice the massive price hikes
 * daubers may not have had any coffee this morning and may be suffering
<AlanBell> morning
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ello
<diplo> Morning all
<czajkowski> popey: ping
<JamesTait> Morning all!
<popey> czajkowski: pong
<czajkowski> see pm
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all, Anyone postgres savvy?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I inadvertantly dropped the "postgres" database. How can I restore it from a backup?
<AlanBell> erk
<gord> oop
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Delorian?
<DJones> Backups?
<TheOpenSourcerer>  Yes, I have thouse.
<TheOpenSourcerer> those
<AlanBell> filesystem level backups or database dumps?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting problem that. sudo purge postgres*, delete /var/lib/postgres /usr/share/postgres then re-install. There is a pg_createcluster which is supposed to do it but it was quicker to do the above.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Better modify my script before it does that again ;-)
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I keep meaning to use postgres again. I've not used it since Perl type bullied me into it. But that only lasted a couple of months before laziness turned me back to mysql
<DJones> Is ppa:unity-team/hud the recommended way of installing & testing HUD? A couple fo comments I've just read suggest that the ppa is dead
<gord> DJones, no, its not, hud's in trunk so the daily unity ppa
<DJones> gord: Thanks, I'll give that a go when I get home tonight
<cliftonts> morning all
<cliftonts> does anyone here know much about diagnosing laptop hardware faults?
<daubers> cliftonts: Depends on the fault :)
<daubers> cliftonts: what are the symptoms?
<cliftonts> daubers: as soon as you plug it in it turns on, no need to touch the power switch
<cliftonts> the hard drive accesses briefly then nothing, no picture, no response to key presses
<cliftonts> try to turn it off and it ignores you, you have to pull the plug
<directhex> short circuit. possibly a power supply fault.
<cliftonts> scrambled bios maybe?
<directhex> not convinced.
<cliftonts> that's a shame, it's a damn expensive laptop and I don't rate my chances at being able to fault find at component level on the board
<daubers> cliftonts: Can always bring it up to a Hackspace and ask nicely :)
<directhex> i reckon it's a short.
<cliftonts> daubers: I'm in business selling these things, would they have any issue with someone exploiting them for profit?
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: power supply failure? possibly stuck power button?
<daubers> cliftonts: If you go up there and ask for help identifying these kind of problems and maybe offered a small donation (even of old kit) they'd probably be ok with it
<cliftonts> gordonjcp: the power button is on a removable board so I've eliminated that
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: fucked, basically
<cliftonts> daubers: Although I'm in business I'm pretty new to it and in extreme poverty lol. I do however have shed loads of old kit!
<bigcalm> !ohmy | gordonjcp
<lubotu3> gordonjcp: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<cliftonts> gordonjcp: Please refrain from using technical terms in here. hehe
<cliftonts> daubers: I know nothing about hackspace except that it has been mentioned by a few people at the local LUG, I'm having a browse now
<cliftonts> I have found a local one with the most user un-friendly page in the universe. Now all I need to do is knock on every single door in reading until I find them because they don't seem to have any addresses, meeting dates or contact details.
<daubers> cliftonts: Who is your local one?
<daubers> Oh! Reading! Hang on
<cliftonts> Reading
<daubers> http://readingmakerspace.co.uk/wiki/Main_Page <- Is it that page?
<daubers> (or readinghackspace.co.uk)
<cliftonts> I'd got this
<cliftonts> brilliant! The how to find us page on that address shows which bus to catch but doesn't tell you the address
<daubers> cliftonts: Give me 10 minutes and I'll give you some better directions (I'm building those pages)
<daubers> cliftonts: It's here http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=214476086285871945372.0004b5b4aca8db41322dd&msa=0&ll=51.454455,-0.895804&spn=0.002079,0.003605
<cliftonts> fair enough
<daubers> headley park 9
<daubers> in woodley
<cliftonts> do you have a postcode for it?
<daubers> Umm.. somewhere
<daubers> Unit 5, Headley Park NINE, Headley Road, Woodley, RG5 4SQ
<cliftonts> I'm just trying to think logically here, the power enters the board at one spot, the switch is in another, at some point along the path something will react to the switch by shorting out and that has obviously gone dud
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<cliftonts> but what is that something?
<cliftonts> daubers: Thanks
<cliftonts> daubers: Wednesday evenings, right?
<cliftonts> I'll stop by and see if anyone has any ideas then.
<daubers> Cool :) Usually people there around 7ish
<daubers> (I should be there, but depends on getting out of london on time(
<cliftonts> It strikes me though that it must be a component with more than 3 pins though, because it's essentially brain dead. Fans leds etc come on but nothing more. So it's only powering up part of the board
<cliftonts> trouble is some of these things are so small I can't even identify them!
 * AlanBell has tickets to London Irish
<bigcalm> Sounds like a pub
<cliftonts> daubers: Are you still there?
<KrisDouglas> Hey Gareth, how are the computer fairs coming along?
 * BigRedS realises where he recognises the name "cliftonts" from
<cliftonts> go on BigRedS...
<cliftonts> KrisDouglas: It's going quite nicely, profits are a bit low but I'm half way through transferring to laptops rather than desktops so I don't have much in the way of highly profitable items right now
<BigRedS> oh, ubuntu-uk list
<KrisDouglas> cliftonts, yeah, too many people can build desktops too-easily.
<KrisDouglas> They're like Lego nowadays.
<BigRedS> Plugging in's easy, it's the speccing that's hard
<BigRedS> well, substantially more tedious than I can ever bring myself to do
<KrisDouglas> BigRedS, yeah, but it's not nearly as hard as it used to be.
<KrisDouglas> The only difficulty I find is brands, etc.
<BigRedS> No, that's one benefit of competition mostly disappearing :/
<cliftonts> KrisDouglas: I understand that but you try finding laptops for sale at a good enough price to turn a profit on. I'm having to invent my own solutions
<BigRedS> but even so, I always need to say "I have Â£X. What should I buy?" to knowledgable people
<KrisDouglas> cliftonts, you could start buying OEM shells and installing the parts yourself
<KrisDouglas> if you find the right supplier it could be viable.
 * AlanBell might be in the market for some bits of desktop kit
<cliftonts> KrisDouglas: OEM shells?
<davmor2> morning all
<KrisDouglas> cliftonts, yes, a laptop with just a board, no LCD (usually) or hard drive or anything
<KrisDouglas> You then fill it with bits, much like a PC.
<KrisDouglas> www.pcspecialist.co.uk do it.
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<cliftonts> Never heard of that before
<cliftonts> I've chosen to focus on broken laptops, that way I can get them for as little as Â£10 a piece
<cliftonts> my latest is an Acer Aspire with a HD 18.4" screen but it's got a very stubborn power fault
<cliftonts> Anyway, I suppose I really should get on and do some work!
<oimon_> does anyone have experience of capacitive stylus for tablets?
<oimon_> would like to do handwriting on android tablet with a stylus
<bigcalm> o/
<bigcalm> Adoit Jot Pro
<oimon_> bigcalm: how long you had it?
<oimon_> i was looking at the jot
<bigcalm> Since Wednesday last week
<bigcalm> I did research and asked around
<oimon_> do they seem durable? (btw what did you pay?)
<bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005GSPN6M
<bigcalm> I wanted the blue, but I'm a cheap skate
<oimon_> bigcalm: which note taking app are you using?
<bigcalm> I'm not yet
<oimon_> i'm more cheap skate as the jot classic will suffice for moi
<bigcalm> I bought it for drawing with
<oimon_> but handwriting is ok?
<bigcalm> Yes, it's pleasing on my Xoom
<oimon_> i want it for freenote (ideally i'd love asus supernote that is on the transformer prime)
<oimon_> does it do anything magic (bluetooth etc), or just pick up and write?
<bigcalm> It's just a stylus, nothing clever going on
<oimon_> no lag?
<bigcalm> That'll be down to the app/hardware
<oimon_> ok last question, thanks for humouring me :D
<oimon_> what do you think of the people on the amazon reviews who are saying it scratches your screen?
<bigcalm> I haven't experienced this. If you push too hard with anything you might break something and start scratching
<bigcalm> The point of the clear pad is to prevent this
<oimon_> it's always hard to judge the amazonian reviewers. they could be a trained chimp and you wouldn't know it
<davmor2> popey: PS3 remotes rock ask bigcalm and gord I did a demo
<bigcalm> popey: davmor2 likes things that vibrate lots
<oimon_> i'm amazed that gorilla glass would scratch if this stylus is used without a protector
<directhex> i wrote a ps3 remote driver once
<directhex> in my yoof
<bigcalm> directhex: how old are you now?
<directhex> twentysomething
<directhex> hang on...
<directhex> carry the three...
<directhex> twenty... seven?
<bigcalm> The ps3 hasn't been around that long surely?
<bigcalm> Youth is relative :)
<oimon_> bigcalm: do you use a screen protector?
<bigcalm> No
<bigcalm> Nor is there one on my phone
<oimon_> you risk taker you ...
<bigcalm> I've had my Nexus One since they were available from Google
<directhex> cookies! http://apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/miscellaneous-junk/IMG_0551.JPG
<oimon_> bought a nice valentines card for the missis and the postie bent it ..big crease :(
<bigcalm> Bacon cookies?
<directhex> bigcalm, yeah. haven't made any for a few years
<directhex> http://apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/miscellaneous-junk/IMG_0550.JPG
<bigcalm> I'm not sure what to think!
<directhex> "mmm, bacon!" ?
<bigcalm> There is that thought
<directhex> my sister ate most of them, but insisted on closing her eyes so she could pretend they weren't some kind of twisted combination of meat and sweet
 * bigcalm longs for his bed
<bigcalm> Really shouldn't be this tired on a Monday morning
 * directhex longs for delicious cake
<daubers> I could do with some cake
<daubers> stupid trade shows, stupid mondays
<oimon_> just noticed that hotot responds to vim-like directional commands..
 * BigRedS just ate too many biscuits
 * brobostigon gets bigcalm a sickbag.
<brobostigon> BigRedS*
<brobostigon> sorry bigcalm
<BigRedS> haha
<Myrtti> hello
<brobostigon> morning Myrtti
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> Oh
 * bigcalm lunches
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Did you ever find an open source door thing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: No - I was only looking briefly as a mate at HP had asked, but from what I found it doesn't look like anything is really available
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Interesting....
<palnj> Hey guys!
<palnj> It's been a while :D
<palnj> AlanBell: you'll be getting that letter about the free CD + RAM soon...my PostOffice for some reason don't sell 2nd class large stampsâ¦hmph
<AlanBell> how odd!
<palnj> Yup, ikr
<AlanBell> they are really strict on postage now, I got one last week where someone thought that a first class stamp would do, they sent an A4 envelope with a 1st class stamp on it and because the envelope was too big I had to go to the post office and spend Â£1.12 to collect essentially an empty envelope
<AlanBell> folding the thing over and taping it up would have been fine
<palnj> Haha god that's dumb
<palnj> I think I'll put in a little picture of me with the jewel case...just 'cause i can
<directhex> i wish the post office charged more.
<palnj> directhex: why? You work at one?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: danfish tickets arrived
<directhex> palnj, i'm sick of the post office constantly being in financial straights, when they charge a fraction of what all other comparable post offices globally charge
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yes, got them :)
<palnj> directhex: true, I guess
<AlanBell> directhex: yes, with you on that, I would be fine with them putting the price of a stamp up and ditching second class
<directhex> palnj, it ends up with a broken business model where their main skill - taking an item from A to B for pennies overnight - makes little to no money, so they need to supplement it with every unrelated service ever, and bulk-rate carriage for spammers
<palnj> Lol
<directhex> you think La Poste needs to sell DSL?
<BigRedS> I s
<BigRedS> till don't understand 2nd class
<palnj> AlanBell: true, seeing as no-one really sends post that much anymore now anyways
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I forgot who else got them
<palnj> What with the miracle of email
<directhex> Correos doesn't issue credit cards
<palnj> (and IRC, of course)
<directhex> PalaPad, yeah! they haven't touched their business model to handle the realities of modern delivery
<directhex> in 2012, the post is used for bills, birthday cards, spam, and play.com shipments
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I can probably pick you and jon up from Reading station if you like
<popey> comics
<BigRedS> yeah, and they've basically been forced into competition only in all the possibly profitable bits of their service
<BigRedS> so they're a bit stumped when it comes to covering the costs of delviering a letter to anywhere in the uk for 30p or however much a stamp costs
<popey> gord: with a guest account I have added some files to Documents but they dont show up in the files lens.. is there some way to trigger a search?
<palnj> directhex: and for sending me my Rubik's cubes from China
<palnj> popey: isn't the guest account "guest" temporary? i.e. on logout the users home folder and user account are deleted?
<gord> popey, its Zeitgeist, until you open them with something, it doesn't know about them
<palnj> gord: then does that mean if I download a document from somewhere
<palnj> Online, it won't index it until I open it?
<gord> it should do, we have special code for that
<palnj> Ah alright
<gord> popey, you might want to bug mh3r in #u-unity about it
<popey> thanks
<palnj> And it's gone quiet again here
<palnj> :|
<Myrtti> it happens
 * KrisDouglas achoo
<Myrtti> lunch hour or whatever in UK I believe
<palnj> Yeah I know but I'm
<KrisDouglas> Nobody in my office eats till about 1pm
<palnj> Not hugely hungry
<directhex> second breakfast.
 * popey just had chilli made in the slow cooker
<popey> nom
<palnj> KrisDouglas: exactly and at school we eat at like 1.15
<palnj> And yay, it's half-term
<Myrtti> in Finland the lunch is usually between 10.30 and 12.30
<palnj> Anyone despising valentines day tomorrow?
 * brobostigon is sad, he just marked a tv prog called charmed on the tv,
<palnj> â¢ brobostigon: I'm here for you, man
<brobostigon> :)
<palnj> Anyways, I guess I am hungry
<brobostigon> palnj: and i didnt mean unhappy kind of sad.
 * palnj ditches everyone for sausages and toast
<Myrtti> aw, BF just got tomorrow off (he has to use the few remaining days off of last years annual leaves before March) - we don't have any idea what to do.
<palnj> brobostigon: lol, I see what you mean
<brobostigon> palnj: :)
<palnj> I'm still here for you though :)
<palnj> Charmed
<palnj> Is pretty funny though
<palnj> At times
<palnj> My sister used to be an addict
<christel> brobostigon: sok, i used to watch charmed, im a saddo too!
<brobostigon> christel: loads of good looking men in it, from what i have been told.
<christel> mmm it has julian mcmahon in it, he's pretty fit -- and should you swing the other way there's also alyssa milano.. she is mightily hot! :D
<brobostigon> christel: and as you said, good looking women also.
<brobostigon> christel: i am a man, i will point out here.
<brobostigon> christel: i prefer rose mcgowan, who comes in in season 4.
 * brobostigon shuts up now.
<tugrik> charmed?
<tugrik> *sigh*
 * tugrik wanders off into his special place for a bit
<popey> gord: do you know what the HDMI ish port is called on the x220? I think I need an adapter
<christel> ah yes, the ginger girl, she's pretty good looking :)
 * popey googles
<jpds> popey: DisplayPort?
<popey> jpds: dunno, its not the same as the displayport on my mac
<popey> which I guess is mini displayport?
<davmor2> popey: is it like a hdmi mini or something?
<davmor2> ps popey you could always look in the manual that came with the laptop ;)
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVeNdSN41Tg says its displayport
<brobostigon> christel: :)
<gord> popey, yeah its display port, does the little display port logo over the top not give that away? ;)
<popey> aha!
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort
 * popey looks for converters
<gord> its the good kind that does passive conversion to hdmi, so a converter should be cheep
<popey> they all seem to be a tenner or more
<oimon_> why do people rush out and buy albums when singers die? do you think they say "hmm i used to own this on tape..time to buy it again", or "who is this singer i've never heard of, maybe i'll buy the best of..."?
<davmor2> oimon_: no it's cause they'll never make music again so you must race out and buy all their music all over again
<oimon_> davmor2: i'm not sure WH was in danger of making another record
<davmor2> oimon_: I didn't say she was, it's just that people suddenly think about it where as they didn't till she dies
<popey> hmm, rhythmbox u1 music store broken in 12.04?
<popey> I can't play/preview any tracks
<oimon_> popey is trying to buy amy winehouse, MJ and whitney records
<gord> oh the u1 store is in rb now?
<gord> bye bye banshee!
<gord> you won't be missed
<popey> well, i activateed the plugin
<oimon_> i keep banshee for the amazon purchases
<gord> yeah preview doesn't seem to work right now
<davmor2> popey: annoy aquarius and it will magically work fairly soonish after :)
<czajkowski> oh no more banshee!
<czajkowski> thats made my day
<davmor2> czajkowski: you're on precise right?
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> only used banshee as I buy music from U1
<popey> bah!
<popey> ubuntu-bug rhythmbox
<popey> click the button that says it's a u1ms issue
<popey> "Package rhythmbox does not exist"
<popey> ii  rhythmbox      2.95-0ubuntu2  music player and organizer for GNOME
<popey> lies
 * popey pokes aquarius with a stick
<popey> un  rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-stor <none>                         (no description available)
<popey> yet the plugin exists in rb
<davmor2> popey: the webkit breakage may of knocked off all the plugings
<davmor2> -g
 * aquarius is poked
<aquarius> popey, person to talk to about that is dobey, who isn't awake yet
<aquarius> popey, he will be soon, though
<czajkowski> he does tend to just fix things
<czajkowski> very easily
<aquarius> is upgrading safe today?
<czajkowski> I've not broken anything yet
<czajkowski> aquarius: could you pick a less flame bait topic on G+ I tried to follow it and it was a bit long winded !
<aquarius> czajkowski, I was looking for advice; that means casting the net wide!
 * gord 100+ comments this morning, decided it was too early for google plus
<czajkowski> that was a wide discussion so
<gord> *saw
<popey> i didnt see many flames on that one
<popey> was pretty normal discussion
<aquarius> *nod* agreed that it was unflamey :)
<czajkowski> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/video-angry-dad-who-read-daughters-facebook-is-viral-hit-after-shooting-her-laptop-3017945.html  impressive.
<diplo> heh watched that the other day czajkowski
<diplo> People I chatted to about it all think he missed hdd bay :)
<oimon_> fallback mode in precise is borken atm :(
<Myrtti> did anyone mention N9?
<aquarius> no, but I looked at it.
<andylockran> hwody
<Myrtti> not that I care anymore, but just out of interest
<aquarius> hardware seems pretty (which is why it got reused for the lumia :)) Little concerned about platform abandonment.
<Myrtti> for all I care Nokia can go die in a fire
<gord> that seems a little harsh ;)
<gord> if the nokia HQ goes up in flames, i'll know where to look
<aquarius> I'm not worried about lack of apps; I am worried that the n9 OS looks suspiciously like an iOS ripoff, that it may not have a very good browser at all, that the primary audience is techie people who think that being able to compile a kernel for a phone is a good thing,and that there's no ongoing development which means that if I have problems I'll be SOL.
<popey> the n9 outsold nokias identical windows phone the lumia
<popey> despite the n9 not being very easy to get hold of
<Myrtti> aquarius: that's why I've not even considered it myself
<gordonjcp> gord: are you now picturing Myrtti wearing thick glasses and going "and - i could - i could - i could burn this building down, you know - and i - i ..."
<Myrtti> I have a passionate point of view at things that have made my life miserable
<aquarius> Myrtti, but at the moment it's roughly equivalent in terms of "I could use it but there are the following problems" with all the other competitors.
<gord> i find it suspicious that when the new android revision comes out, suddenly my android phone starts sucking big time
<aquarius> every phone on the market seems to have some sort of issue I really don't like about it. I hate being a community of one.
<gord> last night it couldn't even do wifi properly
<czajkowski> aquarius: what about a bolt on battery on an android phone ? like an external battery or seomthing
<czajkowski> I know I've seen something like it for an iphone
<aquarius> czajkowski, then I'd have a phone which is an inch thick, which'd piss me off, and that still wouldn't fix how I find Android annoying ;)
<Myrtti> I just installed JuiceDefender on my Nexus One and it has made a significant difference
<aquarius> oops, sorry.
<aquarius> Myrtti, I had JD; either it didn't help, or it did help and it would have been *even worse* without it.
<czajkowski> aquarius: perhaps you over use your phone!
<aquarius> Last night, however, I broke the rule of a lifetime and installed a custom ROM on my phone, so we'll see if that helps.
<hamitron> :)
<aquarius> czajkowski, no such thing. That's how I want to use it; therefore I want a phone which can manage it :)
<daubers> aquarius: Nah, all smart phones suck in some manner :)
<hamitron> not as smart as they like to "think" they are :/
<Myrtti> our little household is pondering between Galaxy Note and Galaxy Nexus, it seems
<daubers> It's more a case of finding one which sucks least for you
<aquarius> daubers, hence me asking the question and the 100 messages on google+ :)
<diplo> aquarius, I just moved to Cyagenmod on my phone, Improved battery life no end
<aquarius> diplo, which is exactly what I've done, so maybe it'll help :P
<daubers> I find battery life ok on my GS II
<daubers> until I sit playing games all day
<diplo> Did it last weekend, this weekend I left wireless/mobile on from Friday lunch till the 10% warning came up on Sunday early evening!
<diplo> that's with twitter/g+/fb usage + calls and texts
<diplo> So overall a huge improvement
<AlanBell> anyone come across cas before for single sign on http://www.jasig.org/cas
<diplo> It seems to bit the wireless/mobilenet in a type of standby
<aquarius> biggest problem with the N9 is that I don't even know who to ask questions like "does it support offline web apps" of
 * hamitron wants a smart phone without facebook, twitter and email plastered all over it.... cheap
<diplo> AlanBell, Nope sorry
<Myrtti> aquarius: #harmattan apparently
<diplo> I don't tweet/g+ much myself tbh hamitron
<aquarius> Myrtti, that's abotu creating native n9 apps, isn't it?
<diplo> But it's good for loo reading :)
<Myrtti> yeah, but they know a bit or two about the device itself too... or ask twitterverse
<hamitron> diplo, I use real paper stuff at the loo ;/
<aquarius> AlanBell, you know about jsgf and pocketsphinx?
<Myrtti> #N9club/#N950club tags seem to catch some of the people
<AlanBell> aquarius: an incy wincy bit
<aquarius> AlanBell, you and I need to have a conversation, then, so I can get quentin working :)
<AlanBell> aquarius: what is that then?
<aquarius> AlanBell, voice control for my machine
<aquarius> AlanBell, primarily for media playing, not desktop control
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> simon-listens is quite effective
<AlanBell> the HUD stuff looks almost made for it
 * directhex has an n9 on his desk
<directhex> also a pre 3
<aquarius> AlanBell, my biggest problem is that I don't know how to influence it so that words stay together. So, if I tell it: here is some grammar, "Top Gear", "The IT Crowd", I never want it to consider "Top Crowd" to be a legitimate utterance. And I don't know how :)
<aquarius> directhex, pre's no good for me, purely 'cos I don't like hardware keyboards, which is a shame
<aquarius> directhex, do you know things about the n9?
<directhex> aquarius, i know it's blue
 * aquarius laughs
<AlanBell> aquarius: http://cmusphinx.sourceforge.net/sphinx4/javadoc/edu/cmu/sphinx/jsgf/JSGFGrammar.html
<AlanBell> <sil> means silence, which I find amusing
<directhex> aquarius, it's not the device for me, tbh. it's now my mp3 player and sip phone, but not my all-purpose mobile
<aquarius> directhex, I'd be interested in hearing your reasons for that
<aquarius> AlanBell, yeah, I read some docs; part of what made me stop playing with it is that the speech stuff wasn't packaged ;(
<AlanBell> which part?
<directhex> aquarius, a few major major problems with the default apps, combined with a lack of third party apps (compared even to webos)
<AlanBell> !info python-pocketsphinx
<lubotu3> python-pocketsphinx (source: pocketsphinx): lightweight speech recognition - Python module. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.1+dfsg1-0ubuntu2 (oneiric), package size 32 kB, installed size 172 kB
<aquarius> AlanBell, last time I played with this stuff (which was probably 18 months ago, I admit), the packaged versions were broken and old
<directhex> aquarius, the main ones are the stress of using it in the car for music & calls, and the twitter app being junk
<aquarius> directhex, interesting. I'm not too worried about third-party apps; I have learned that I use about ten apps and that's it. What's stressful about the car?
<aquarius> how much does an N9 cost these days? I'll port U1 to it if I get one, so that'll cover most of my needs ;)
<AlanBell> aquarius: the julius engine isn't packaged (some doubt about licensing from the japanese university behind it) which is keeping simon-listens out of debian last time I checked, but the cmusphinx and pocketsphinx engines are there (might be old)
<directhex> aquarius, let me describe the scene. i play music via the headphone socket on my phone, and when a call comes in, the car switches into bluetooth headset mode & takes the call via the integrated microphone under the dashboard. make sense? this is how i did things with the pre and the htc hero in my android youth
<directhex> aquarius, the car absolutely cannot do music via bluetooth, it does not advertise support for the "stereo headphone" profile, only the "headset", "car kit" and "address book" profiles
<directhex> aquarius, so the hero was okay with this setup, except after a call i had to unpause the music. the pre3 did everything right.
<aquarius> directhex, interesting. That specific point doesn't worry me right at this moment, because I play music in the car by plugging a wire into the headphone socket, but I take your point!
<directhex> aquarius, the n9 will only output audio via the most recently connected audio device, full stop. so if i start playback, hit the ignition, then i get about three seconds of audio through the car - until the bluetooth connects, and the phone declares "bluetooth! output all music via bluetooth!"
 * aquarius laughs
<aquarius> that seems unideal.
<AlanBell> hack the car
<directhex> aquarius, the fix is to unplug and replug the headphone cable. howEVER, now, if i receive a call, i get silence, because the n9 has declared "headphone! all headset audio via headphone!" instead of bluetooth
<directhex> android and webos could handle the mixed scenario. harmattan can not
<aquarius> right. That seems a bit broken, indeed; that's what worries me about the N9, not that there are these problems, but that these problems will never ever ever be fixed
<Neoti> hi all been a while...
<andylockran> it has
<andylockran> welcome bck
<Neoti> im on the look out for a new job, i know windows stuff, linux stuff, voip stuff/asterisk..... based in nottingham... lolz.
<andylockran> Neoti: send your CV to www.medoc.co.uk
<andylockran> :p
<Neoti> andylockran - www.phillipcooper.co.uk
<Neoti> andylockran - http://phillipcooper.co.uk/about-me/my-cv/
<Neoti> but i will also email them
<Neoti> thanks andylockran
<directhex> aquarius, the 1.2 update is due soon. it may fix some retardation
<directhex> aquarius, the other painful one is that the design specs say your app should prompt for internet access if needed - but the twitter app takes it to extremes, and spams "connect to internet" popups if you're offline (e.g. on a eurostar)
<aquarius> ouch
<aquarius> ooh, http://www.developer.nokia.com/Resources/Library/Web/nokia-browsers/nokia-browser-85-for-meego-12-harmattan/html5-support/offline-storage/application-cache.html implies that the n9 supports offline web apps.
<aquarius> suddenly I am leaning towards an n9.
<Neoti> andylockran email sent thanks!
<Myrtti> oh no
<Myrtti> I should have kept quiet about N9
<aquarius> Myrtti, this seems... promising.
<Myrtti> you're giving money to the devil :-|
 * Myrtti goes to sacrifice her old 3310 on the altar
<Myrtti> fortunately I can't keep angry for long
<aquarius> Myrtti, buying a competent smartphone is merely deciding which devil to give money to.
<Myrtti> indeed
<Myrtti> well atleast if you get one assembled in Finland you know that labourwise you've given your money to the marginally lesser evils
<Myrtti> ie. not Foxconn
<directhex> didn't nokia close their salo factory?#
<directhex> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/09/technology/nokia-to-cut-4000-jobs-at-3-factories.html
<Myrtti> not yet
<Myrtti> it was just announced last week, it's not an instant process
<Myrtti> and the whole factory isn't going to go apparently
<directhex> yet
<Myrtti> yet.
<jonsaint> hi all, need some help! all my pcs are now running ubuntu but thing is, how can i block websites?? im asking this because of my kids.
<s-fox> Hello.
<directhex> jonsaint, OS-agnostic solution is http://www.opendns.com/
<hamitron> jonsaint, I like opendns
<hamitron> ^ beat me to it :/
<dogmatic69> jonsaint: easy way is hosts file
<jonsaint> how does it actually work?
<dogmatic69> just add 127.0.0.1 site.com
<dogmatic69> redirects site.com to 127.0.0.1
<jpds> dogmatic69: Sounds like a large hosts file is coming up.
<aquarius> jonsaint, is your plan to (a) prevent access to certain named sites, or (b) allow access only to certain named sites and block all the others, or (c) have someone else decide on a list of all sites that should be blocked and use that list?
<directhex> jonsaint, a DNS server is like an internet phonebook which turns an address (like www.ubuntu.com) into an actual network address (like 91.189.94.156) - if you replace your ISP's DNS server with opendns, then you can use their service to filter out certain classes of site from their name resolution
<jonsaint> aquarius,  its to stop my kids going on sites i dont want them on, i want to choose what sites to block
<hamitron> opendns is certainly easiest
<gordonjcp> jonsaint: you could look at the site filtering options in something like OpenWRT
<dogmatic69> opendns sounds like a good one, you can just block sites like ...
<directhex> the advantage to using opendns for this is you admin it from one place - i.e. you set your router to use opendns, then all computers on your network get opendns-filtered results
<aquarius> jonsaint, then the hosts file approach is the low-budget super-techie way to do it, but it doesn't require any additional software; as mentioned, edit the file /etc/hosts with superuser privileges, and then add "siteiwanttoblock.com 127.0.0.1" on a new line.
<gordonjcp> jonsaint: the best method is parental oversight ;-)
<hamitron> but that wouldn't block gb.siteiwanttoblock.com
<hamitron> ;)
<jonsaint> so all in all, whats the best, free way of blocking sites i want to block??
<directhex> http://www.opendns.com/home-solutions/parental-controls/
<dogmatic69> hamitron: or ninjaproxy.com/siteiwantotblock.com etc
<directhex> oh, free. i guess hosts hacking.
<jonsaint> aint opendns free?
<ikonia> ha ha
<hamitron> opendns free package is all i need
<gordonjcp> directhex: or OpenWRT
<gordonjcp> jonsaint: how old are your children?
<directhex> jonsaint, $20 per year for the configurable option
<jonsaint> 10 plus one bit older
<gordonjcp> jonsaint: this has a bearing on whether or not you want to whitelist or blacklist
<hamitron> but then you need to also set a firewall and other stuff on your router, if you think users will try work their way around :/
<gordonjcp> jonsaint: okay, you do realise that anything you do to filter their Internet connection will last about ten minutes?
<directhex> gordonjcp, yeah, as soon as he gets an advanced degree in wrtology
<jonsaint> i got a bt hub which is a router and modem all in one
<directhex> heh, yeah. i started surfing for porn at, i dunno, eleven?
<directhex> bloody dialup
<gordonjcp> kids these days with your high speed internet pr0n
<hamitron> directhex, trained you to "wait longer"? ;/
<gordonjcp> jonsaint: I'm not sure if the BT Homehub has filtering
<gordonjcp> jonsaint: it might do
<ikonia> directhex: as in 11.am today ?
<jonsaint> no it dont, you have to download their net protect software but its only for crappy windows
<gordonjcp> hm, okay
<directhex> ikonia, yes, but also when i was 11 years old
<jonsaint> anyway folks il give it a go. many thanks for the help and info :-)
<hamitron> I'd use opendns, with a firewall to stop outgoing connections, and then run a local proxy
<gordonjcp> hamitron: not sure if that'll work
<gordonjcp> hamitron: the BT Homehub is pretty locked down
<ikonia> directhex: late starter then huh
<hamitron> oh, you'd need another device probably
<gordonjcp> hamitron: yea
<gordonjcp> tbh the best bet would be to just stick a cacheing proxy in
<hamitron> sure it can handle opendns and firewall?
<gordonjcp> or, you know, watch what your children are doing on the Internet
<gordonjcp> and, radical as this idea might sound
<hamitron> it is the best
<hamitron> ;)
<gordonjcp> try actually doing parent-y things
<gordonjcp> instead of expecting a magic box to fix it all for you and bring up your children
<hamitron> as with many things, tech can't fully replace human input
 * gordonjcp <- cynical, has no children
<gordonjcp> I was at one point a child though, and I do still have one parent
<ikonia> gordonjcp: it's true, bring them up so they are not idiot/scum/liars and can be trusted to surf and take in stuff properly
<hamitron> but all kids break rules
<hamitron> ;)
<gordonjcp> ikonia: what we did for a mate of mine about ten years ago was set up a cacheing proxy
<hamitron> if given the chance
<gordonjcp> caching? cacheing?
<gordonjcp> anyway
<gordonjcp> the house rules were, don't go poking about in stuff your parents wouldn't want you looking at
<gordonjcp> if you click on something by accident, well these things happen
<gordonjcp> but it's all logged and porn popups look very different to a concerted effort to find boobies
<gordonjcp> so, play fair
<ikonia> gordonjcp: to be honest, my parents trusted me to do what I wanted with most things (interenet wasn't really a big deal at that time) but no matter what I saw, I was sane enough to not send naked picturs of myself on chat rooms etc
<gordonjcp> of course if they rooted the proxy and wiped the logs, destroying all the evidence of their deviant pr0n habits, then that just shows initiative, doesn't it?
<gordonjcp> ikonia: exactly
<hamitron> so does robbing a bank and not getting caught
<hamitron> doesn't make it right ;/
<directhex> looks like homehub 3 dns cannot be changed, full stop
<gordonjcp> directhex: yup
<directhex> gotta change dns server on every client pc
<ikonia> this stuff about "we need a panic button on facebook" - no your kids need to not send naked photos of themselves to strangers, and you need a slap for bringing them up bad
<gordonjcp> ikonia: bingo
<directhex> ikonia, can i send naked photos of myself to people i know?
<gordonjcp> ikonia: someone I follow on Facebook posted about some rape trial in Ireland
<ikonia> directhex: if I'm on the list, sure, I'd hate to miss out
<hamitron> I still think it is easy for a child to be misled
<AlanBell> ikonia: that panic button thing is a big fat PR scam
<hamitron> not all the parents fault
<gordonjcp> ikonia: where the outrage is that the judge has said that the rape victim may have, by wandering around town late at night wearing not much, may just have some responsibility herself for what happened
<ikonia> AlanBell: thank you for lifting the wool from my eyes, ;)
<ikonia> gordonjcp: insanity
<AlanBell> ikonia: I actually am registered as an official somethingorother to do with that
<ikonia> AlanBell: I look forward to chatting to you when I hit the panic button as directhex has sent me his naked pictures
<AlanBell> I filled out the form and said I would like to implement a panic button for Ubuntu, so I wanted access to their sekrit resources
<directhex> you prefer the shots in leather or latex?
<gordonjcp> to which I'm tempted to reply saying that if you wander around with a fat roll of 20s in your pocket and you get robbed walking around drunk in a bad area at midnight, who is really to blame?
<hamitron> poor ikonia? o.O
<AlanBell> which turned out to be one .gif file
<ikonia> directhex: surprise me.
<directhex> steel it is!
<hamitron> gordonjcp, you, for not kicking their butt ;)
<ikonia> directhex: cold steel ?
<gordonjcp> ikonia: or the girl who came into the noodle bar on Saturday with an equally pissed-up group of her friends
<ikonia> gordonjcp: I bet 20+ morons hit "like" on that link
<directhex> ikonia, how else?
<ikonia> directhex: just checking
<gordonjcp> ikonia: wearing what looked like half an Ann Summers-style outfit
<ikonia> clearly I need to frequent noodle bars
<gordonjcp> ikonia: and then started giving some random guy a lapdance while her friends cheered her on
<gordonjcp> stay classy
<ikonia> can't wait to take her home to meet the family
<AlanBell> I am delighted to tell you that your registration to access our Digital Asset Library for an Ubuntu Linux desktop application has been accepted and you have now joined literally thousands of professionals from across the UK working with us to make the internet a safer place for young users.
<ikonia> AlanBell: I'm sleeping easy tonight
<gordonjcp> ikonia: indeed
<AlanBell> ceop is a marketing scam
<oimon_> hamitron: opendns went crazy on me the other day and haven't changed back yet - did you have the same probs?
<oimon_> started blocking search engines as a disallowed site
<BigRedS> Hm. Finding packages for Etch is rather harder than I'd imagined
<aquarius> BigRedS, that's because it's been out of support for about a hundred years :P
<BigRedS> aquarius: pffft. details! :)
<hamitron> oimon_, didn't notice
<oimon_> hamitron: hmm. could access most sites, almost missed my train changing the dns on the router before leaving for work so mrs could do stuff
<hamitron> sorry for delay, disadvantage of using loads of machines at once
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon_> s/could/could not
<hamitron> :/
<zleap> hello
<hamitron> it let me open a site it should have had blocked a while ago
<hamitron> but was a one off
<oimon_> which one ? ilovesheep.com?
<zleap> wha command shows processes running
<oimon_> top
<zleap> what is the otherone
<oimon_> ps -ef
<zleap> thats it
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> ok according to that i have openssh server running
<zleap> which is good
<hamitron> oimon_, some facebook page
<oimon_> mmm after-eight sweets..best things out there
<oimon_> AKA mintoes?
<christel> after eights <3
<oimon_> sending off 4 delay repay forms to my train company :(
<BigRedS> you have a train company?
<oimon_> i pay so much i feel that i'm a part owner.
<oimon_> conveniently they changed franchise last week so the previous delays probably won't be honoured (even though the addresses of the offices are all the same etc)
<dwatkins> after eights are minty choclatey things, I don't think they're the same as mintoes
<KrisDouglas> Does anyone here follow the elementary project, and if so, what are your thoughts on the user interface guidelines?
<oimon_> dwatkins: mint munchies?
<oimon_> ah, mintola!
<oimon_> In 1995, the confectionery formerly known as Mintola (near-identical in appearance to Munchies, but consisting of plain chocolate with a mint fondant centre) was renamed Mint Munchies.[2] In 2006, Mint Munchies were again renamed, this time as After Eight Bitesize.[3]
<oimon_> so sooooo good
<dwatkins> 'After Eight Thin Mints (After Eights) are a confectionery product described as "mint enrobed in dark chocolate"'
<bigcalm> I miss the pirimint (that nobody else remembers)
<oimon_> i also have love hearts, but they make my tummy bloty
<oimon_> bloaty
<KrimZon_2> what were pirimint?
<davmor2> dwatkins: Come on sir one wafffffffer thin mint
<oimon_> just had 2 manic hours where i shaved 4 tedious items off the to-do list..one more to do before hometime :D
 * dwatkins ponders clcling in tomorrow
<dwatkins> also, cycling, perhaps
<oimon_> what todo list management can you guys recommend? i use google stuff a lot if it helps
<dwatkins> I tend to keep a list of stuff on springpad, oimon_ - not quite a todo list, but it syncs nicely between devices most of the time
<oimon_> dwatkins: sounds similar to my existing arrangement of a TODO note on tomboy
<daubers> oimon_: Post it notes, a pen and a bin :)
<oimon_> i am also looking forward to getting a stylus for my touchpad though...
<oimon_> post it notes don't sync very well
<oimon_> found a brilliant app for my 2yr old..called drumkit
<dwatkins> post-it notes are difficult to transport.
<oimon_> also good for the 2yr old in me...
<oimon_> finally remembered to download the free copy of linux journal for the train journey
<oimon_> if i use disk utility to encrpy a drive, what method is it using? cryptoluks? something else?
<oimon_> s/encrpy/encrypt
<oimon_> looks like luks
<daubers> Probably is luks using cryptsetup
<DJones> Hmmh, just been asked by one of the directors at work, if they get rid of our IT support contract, would I be happy taking over the admin of a couple of server.....Let's think.... Windows server (very old version), Obsolete hardware held together with glue & rubber bands, hard drives stuffed full & nothing can be deleted, no backups.......Er No thanks
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: did you want to come to the rugby meet up?
<popey> hah DJones
<DJones> popey: They were the up-sides to it :)
<gord> cool, nabbed bug 670000 in gnome
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 670000 in IUS Community Project "MySQL 5.1.52 Source Update" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670000
<gord> round numbers \o/
<gord> shut up ubutu
<popey> gnome bug 670000
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 670000 in libgnome-desktop "gnome_bg SIGSEGV if g_settings_get_string (settings, BG_KEY_PICTURE_URI) returns NULL" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670000
<popey> âº
<gord> clever
<zleap> will gwibber have support for google+
<davmor2> zleap: from the twitter-sphere I see that there is a provisional branch which for now just authenticates and not much else so WIP
<MartijnVdS> g+ has an api now?
<zleap> ok
<zleap> ok thanks
<zleap> just got gwibber face book and facebook chat working
<gord> few months ago i heard that google would api up the hangouts stuff, would be awesome
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: afaik it has had a read-only API for some time now
<zleap> sounds good
<AlanBell> https://developers.google.com/+/hangouts/
 * popey pokes marxjohnson 
 * marxjohnson knows, and will sort it out in a minute
<popey> hah
<marxjohnson> it should be good to go, if you copy podpress.css and podpress_theme.css and put them back in after the update that should work
<marxjohnson> If not, I'll make sure I fix it before Ep0 is out
<marxjohnson> sorry, podpress_theme.php
<popey> k
<popey> will have a go later, ta
<jaustin> join /ubuntu-release
<jaustin> gah
<MartijnVdS> it's not April yet ;)
<solakola> hi
<zleap> hi
<daubers> o/
 * zleap is reading linux magazine
<zleap> got it for Â£1  as I had a Â£5 mail rewards voucher
<zleap> acutally no 99p
<zleap> as its Â£5.99
<siamese> hi
<siamese> fail
<zleap> hi
<zleap> why fail ?
<Azelphur> zleap: because you failed :o
<zleap> why have i failed
<Azelphur> I havn't decided a reason yet, but I can assure you that you failed
 * zleap looks at windows PC and can confirm its off
<Azelphur> lol
 * zleap looks at ubuntu box and can confirm its working
 * zleap looks at printer error and confirms its not fixed yet
<Azelphur> hehe
<zleap> 3 computers running 11.10
<zleap> 1 of which is dual boot with Windows
<zleap> i seem to have 3 stuffed toy tux penguins,  and 1 tux stress shape
<MartijnVdS> Aww: http://i.imgur.com/MAtr9.jpg
<zleap> cool
<zleap> lego dog tags
<zleap> now stand 2 people back to back,  and clip em together using lego :D
<MartijnVdS> zleap: Well the two parts form a heart.. like the ones people wear shared with their boy/girlfriend
<zleap> ah sorry
<zleap> i see that shape now :D
<MartijnVdS> zleap: you still have time before Valentine's day l;)
 * zleap has lego in the attic
<zleap> :(
<MartijnVdS> zleap: Run up there, find pieces, find 2 chains, give to gf?
<zleap> ok will need to find a gf too
<zleap> no I don't keep any in the attic
<MartijnVdS> Basement?
<zleap> nope
 * popey has lego in the lounge
<zleap> yay
 * MartijnVdS has some lego as well
<MartijnVdS> but I don't know if I have that piece
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> nor me
<zleap> i have lots of lego castle parts
<zleap> http://www.leocad.org/trac
<zleap> that pic looks cool
<zleap> is there a ubuntu package for that in the repos
<zleap> well to asnwer that no, not in software center anyway
<brunogirin> popey: what sort of lego?
<brunogirin> does anybody know what package I should report a defect against if I have a problem in system settings?
<popey> gnome-control-center
<brunogirin> thanks popey!
<popey> np
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<czajkowski> am pooped
<AlanBell> hard day at work?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-14
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Canonical Community Team Weekly Meetings - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/14/canonical-community-team-weekly-meetings/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Music Of Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/14/music-of-ubuntu/
<DJones> Morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: did you want to come to the london irish game?
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: When is it old bean?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: 26th feb
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, what time czajkowski? I will need to ask permission from the trouser wearer.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: dont have tickets near me, poke danfish or AlanBell they're going also
<christel> hehe
<AlanBell> mornign
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think it will be rather tight if I'm honest... If it the typical 2pm ish.
<AlanBell> 13:15
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I think that will cause more grief than I am prepared to take. Especially seeing as we have a Saracens/Quins game to go to at Wembley in March.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks all the sa,e.
<TheOpenSourcerer> \same
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> christel: wana come ?
<christel> i would love to, but it's david's second birthday
<christel> so i had better do the mummy thing!
<AlanBell> and bring David
<christel> hehe he'd run off and join in!
<christel> he starts rugby tots on the 25th \o/
<mrevell> Hallo!
<christel> hello matthew :)
<czajkowski> christel: how do I ignore nick changes on a channel /ignore #channel whatdoidotostopseeingnickchanges
<DJones> czajkowski: I think for irssi its "/ignore #channel NICKS" (if that helps)
<jpds> Poor Nick
<DJones> Heh, shame
<DJones> With you saying "Nick", it got me wondering what happened to Nick Butler who used to be in the channel a lot when I originally joined
<JamesTait> Good morning and happy Valentine's Day, everyone! :D
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 2nd February 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | â¥ â¥ â¥
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<BigRedS> good morning!
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<brobostigon> ok, suggestions, eeepc wont start when power pressed, reset bios, power light lit.
<daubers> django's test suite takes an age to run :(
 * daubers needs a better disk in his desktop
<popey> brobostigon: unplug battery, unplug mains, leave it 30 seconds, put mains in and try again
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!!!
<brobostigon> popey: ok, let try,
<czajkowski> davmor2: HELLO!
<czajkowski> popey: whats the name of the remote access stuff you did at orlando ?
<popey> trublr
<popey> not finished âº
<davmor2> czajkowski: now come on play nice you're in my town tomorrow
<czajkowski> popey: ah ok was being asked elsewhere
<czajkowski> davmor2: I am always nice
<popey> âº
<danfish> czajkowski: my tickets haven't arrived yet :(
<davmor2> czajkowski: by the way food wise at the lighthouse, burger, curry special, or the pasta special are good bets apparently :)
<czajkowski> danfish: oh noes
<czajkowski> danfish: drop em an email ?
<gord> davmor2, whens the next lighthouse thingy?
 * brobostigon orders popey beer for his lunch at his local, and thanks him
<davmor2> gord: thursday the 23rdish
<gord> cool, we should do a shared calender or something
<davmor2> gord: there is now a twitter feed that mrevell setup
<DJones> If anybody is looking for _Cheap_ broadband, maybe this is of interest http://www.reghardware.com/2012/02/14/tesco_offers_low_cost_broadband_to_clubcard_holders/ Looks like its up to 20Mb
<brobostigon> popey: any idea why it did that?
<dwatkins> DJones: doesn't sound too bad, although I imagine I'll need a higher download limit now Netflix does HD streaming.
<sagaci> ~AU$22/mo is a great deal for 100gb
<popey> brobostigon: no
<popey> brobostigon: mine does it now and then
<brobostigon> popey: ok, thank you. :)
<DJones> dwatkins: Its tempting, although I think I'll stick with Sky broadband now I've got Anytime plus set up, my wife is downloading & watching everything under the sun
<dwatkins> DJones: interesting, I'm stuck with BT another couple months, but will then be in the market for a provider
 * popey hugs virgin
<davmor2> popey: oh why now
<popey> er
<popey> that could have been taken wrongly â¨
<popey> I mean Virgin Media of course
<popey> âº
<DJones> Especially on valentines days
 * brobostigon also wants the stability of cable again, but cant, no cable round here.
<dwatkins> I used to have Virgin Media as my ISP, was very happy with the connection - when it worked, it was fine (which was 99.9% of the time)
<dwatkins> brobostigon: Virgin do internet over telephone lines too, I gather, in areas they don't reach
<brobostigon> i used to be with telewest while i was at college.
<DJones> Cables not an option for us, Sky worked out cheaper as an existing customer, works well with Anytime plus and no download/fair use policy keeps the Mrs happy
<dwatkins> didn't VM buy Telewest?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: yes, i have read that, presumably still dsl of some kind?
<davmor2> dwatkins: yeap
<dwatkins> brobostigon: yes, but I gather you're still using their network from the exchange outwards
<davmor2> dwatkins: virgin is basically ntl and telewest
<brobostigon> dwatkins: ah, i see, interesting.
<dwatkins> yeah, my brother used to work for them when they were NTL
<daubers> Bah, some customers need a slap
<bigcalm> So say we all
<popey> ^5
<s-fox> Hello.
<DJones> ok, this is odd...A hotel we deal with is offering a "Romantic dinner for people on honeymoon for three people".....
<AlanBell> takes all sorts
<bigcalm> Polyamory?
<AlanBell> a tryst :)
<popey> child unit
<DJones> AlanBell: I've now got a wierd image of http://bit.ly/AmO6wz as the 3rd "allsort"
<czajkowski> anyone want to help a 12.04 upgrade questions and asnwers person https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/187642
<DJones> czajkowski: I've no idea on the question, but is  "sudo apt-get install upgrade" a real command, to my mind, wouldn't that just try to install a package called "upgrade"
<popey> czajkowski: done
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<popey> boggling why they're using launchpad answers
<gord> didn't launchpad answers get decommissioned?
<gord> i mean obviously not, but i thought i read that
<czajkowski> popey: well they filed it against LP so changed that to ubuntu
<davmor2> popey: I can tell you. It'll be the same reason that SSO gets Hundreds of questions like, why won't the pc game I bought work.  Because there is a button that say "any questions click here" so they do and they ask their question and it has nothing to do with that project
<gord> hrm, getting mafia wars spam from people on g+ =\ least you can mute all game notifications
<davmor2> gord: I must remember to look at g+ at some point :D
<MooDoo> hello all
<DJones> !ping
<andylockran> AlanBell: thanks for the headsup on #hetzner - some of the tweets relating to their outage seem quite cryptic - do they host some dodgy stuff?
<AlanBell> well they host lots of stuff
<AlanBell> our stuff isn't particularly dodgy :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: you host LOLCatz?  that isn't very doggy
<AlanBell> no, just lolchickens. Still not doggy
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski on behalf of MooDoo who seems to be failing too
 * MooDoo is smitten by czajkowski so will not prod no matter what davmor2 says/does :p
<oimon_> yep
<oimon_> woops wrong channel
<davmor2> hey MooDoo  'ow am ya mukka
<MooDoo> davmor2: not bad thanks
<davmor2> MooDoo: good good :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: what about you?  long time no speak
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm good ta busy as hell at the minute
<MooDoo> davmor2: you work? are you sure?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Haha
<MooDoo> ;)
 * dwatkins is surprised to discover the stats show linux desktops as being at under 2% of the OS market
<ali1234> why?
<oimon_> a lot of linux people are forced to use windows at work
<oimon_> the stats are usually gleaned from web site hits
<ali1234> then it would still only be 4%
<hamitron> the desktop is kinda dead anyway
<hamitron> time to prepare for the next battle ;)
<ali1234> no no no
<ali1234> if that's your plan you already lost
<ali1234> see: windows phone 7
<ali1234> blackberry, and the other one
<popey> Palm? âº
<ali1234> weebos
<ali1234> the "next" battle has already been won by linux and BSD
<ali1234> everyone else got destroyed
<hamitron> I think it has only just started
<hamitron> :/
<gord> python applications really do crash a lot, wish people wouldn't write apps in python =\
<hamitron> Android 4, iOS, Windows 8, and maybe small ones
<popey> Ubuntu âº
<hamitron> I am hoping Ubuntu with unity can be there
<hamitron> :)
 * popey imagines apport on a phone
<directhex> gord, you think c apps don't crash?
 * hamitron sends gord some of his early attempts, for education
<ali1234> popey: i'm sure i've seen a crash reported or android
<ali1234> popey: or ONE of these phone
<ali1234> maybe i imagined it
<gord> directhex, course they do, but pythons exception structure leads to un-necessary crashes more often - if python didn't exit on an uncaught exception it would make for a much more stable experience
<ali1234> lots of python software doesn't exit on uncaught exceptions. like openshot
<ali1234> it just fills your entire memory with garbage instead :)
<gord> yeah, well made python apps wil catch all the exceptions, but all it takes even then is a library upgrade that creates a new exception
<oimon_> ali1234: the next battle is the same as the old battle. after MS got bashed for the anti competitive activity, it all seems forgotten as we move to mobile devices with secure boot and app tie-in
<ali1234> at least an exception is relatively easy to debug, compared with a segfault
<hamitron> oimon_, I don't feel MS are the front runner atm.... they are kinda arriving late :/
<ali1234> yep, wp7 is pretty far behind
<ali1234> android in the new windows
<hamitron> wp7 doesn't matter
<hamitron> windows 8 matters more
<ali1234> when microsoft took over the desktop market they did it by being open (in comparison with the competition)
<ali1234> now google does the same
<ali1234> but they will turn, they always do
<ali1234> when the founders start to take a back seat
<BigRedS> well, yeah, when they make as much as they can being open, they notice they can make more by also stopping people leaving
<hamitron> I actually trust MS more than Google tbh
<oimon_> hamitron: true, apple are the lock-in kings. but mobile space is proving a bit locked down , and windows on ARM just as much so
<BigRedS> inevitably, every business gets to the point where money is more important than anything else, sometimes they wait long enough for the founders to leave or die, other times it's a founding principle. Normally it's somwhere in-between
<hamitron> tbh, lock in is a good thing in some ways
<BigRedS> it can be
<BigRedS> as long is you like what you're locked into
<hamitron> yeh, it also avoids confusion for newbs
<BigRedS> and the walled garden that accompanies it these days (like iPhones) similarly has advantages
<BigRedS> I've long since stopped arguing that it's bad, just that it's what i don't want
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I think it would be kinda cool to have the OS on a read only chip
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> s40!
<hamitron> locked, but then have it so you can buy kits to flash your own
<ali1234> thats basically every windows mobile device up to abut 2005
<hamitron> then hdd are purely for user settings and data
<hamitron> well, I'm thinking beyond phones and desktop PC
<hamitron> :)
<BigRedS> ali1234: yeah, but I think he means with a reasonable OS
<hamitron> yeh, with some choice
<hamitron> :)
<popey> splashtop âº
<ali1234> splashtop is rarely in a dedicated memory device
<ali1234> usually it's in a hidden partition on the first drive
<popey> ah
<ali1234> sometimes it's in a usb flash drive soldered directly on the motherboard
<ali1234> but only on premium motherboards
<hamitron> take the r-pi, make the SD card read only and swap-able, and add some form of storage for user data
<hamitron> and make that into a proper device
<popey> i like the idea of an overlay OS like the ASUS EEE 701/900 had
<ali1234> that's extremely easy
<gord> can i buy raspberry-pi's yet?
<popey> so you can reset to factory defaults with one press
<ali1234> no
<popey> 20th feb apparently gord
<hamitron> no, they complete on the 20th
<popey> bet it will be near impossible to get one
<gord> but i want like five of them :(
<popey> they're limited to one each iirc
<hamitron> so 18 months?
<popey> for the first round
<gord> bah!
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> if there is demand, I'll cut mine into slices and sell for charity :)
 * BigRedS isn't plannign to even try before about august
<popey> i do like the idea of an xbmc on one
<hamitron> but it isn't really a proper device
<BigRedS> I like the idea of it as a home server
<gord> yeah i basically just want to replace my revos
<hamitron> what I said above, I'd love to be a "standard"
<BigRedS> and something to have ssh sat on tcp/443 on
<hamitron> I'm torn between getting some fpga or the r-pi
<hamitron> :/
<gord> if they are small enough, could attach a small webcam to it, attach entire device to cat.
<popey> catcam!
<gord> attach cat sized glasses with small transparent display in it, to cat, give cat minority report vision
<gord> robocat!
<ali1234> trombone cat?
<popey> *parp*
<hamitron> nokia n900 is tempting too
<hamitron> :/
 * daubers has an n900 on his desk
<daubers> It's crap :)
<hamitron> why is it? :|
<ali1234> resistive touchscreen mainly
<daubers> Just doing simple things on it is such a pain
<ali1234> makes everything horrible to use
<ali1234> and the OS is  nightmare
<daubers> the email client is a mess
<ali1234> the package manager takes longer and longer to start up
<daubers> doesn't do MMS OtB
<hamitron> well, I only want one to change the OS and play with
<ali1234> last time i tried to use it, it took about 15 minutes to load
<daubers> doesn't talk to my car kit properly
<daubers> the notifications are terrible
<hamitron> if you hate it so much, donate it to me? ;)
<hamitron> or curse me with it!
<hamitron> :D
<daubers> hamitron: Not mine, company phone
<ali1234> mine is technically property of nokia
<ali1234> doubt they want it back though
<hamitron> last phone I used was nokia ngage
<hamitron> so it should be slightly better than that I hope
<hamitron> :)
<popey> friend of mine has an n900 - proper geek - he loves it
<mgdm> I've played with one, I want one
<mgdm> don't need one
<davmor2> popey: is that the meego one?
<hamitron> hardest thing, is finding one I know is in good condition
<hamitron> and not a fake
<hamitron> :/
<BigRedS> I'm clearling sharing an office with a masohist
<BigRedS> he's just installed suse on btrfs with an encrypted /home on his old eeepc. And set the keymap to dvorak
<BigRedS> I can't think of anything that's right about that computer now.
<hamitron> :D
<gord> still gonna be easier to type on than davmor2's computer
<czajkowski> gord: how bad could it be ?
<davmor2> gord: there is nothing wrong with my laptop keyboard layout
<davmor2> gord: you just have to get used to it
<gord> czajkowski, *every* *key* is shifted one key to the right
<czajkowski> why ?
<gord> my guess, so no one will steal it
<BigRedS> cd where do the keys at the right hand end go? pac-man physics?
<davmor2> czajkowski: all the multimedia keys are down the sides, calculator, print, www, dvd, email are all under esc, other side has right arrow, end, pg down, pg up, home etc
<daubers> hamitron: If I can convince work to get me a galaxy nexus, I'll try and get you the n900
<hamitron> daubers, wicked :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: http://img1.lesnumeriques.com/produits/23/9545/HP_G62_Keyboard.jpg
<czajkowski> thats's confusing
<hamitron> I struggle to hit the right keys on a "normal" keyboard :/
<hamitron> it is slides slightly to the side, I'm off balance and everything breaks :)
<BigRedS> oh, so it's not a keymapping thing, just an idiot designed the hardware?
<gord> is tomboy the only thing we use in ubuntu that uses mono now?
<BigRedS> did banshee stop being default?
<gord> yuup
<czajkowski> whooooo
<davmor2> gord: tom boy is removed here
<gord> cool, can remove mono then
<gord> making my upgrades take longer than i would like
<DJones> I think I read something the other day about mono being removed in 12.04 after all mono based app's had been replaced
<oimon_> when they gonna switch to apt-get using deltas instead of full files?
<gord> iruno, seems like a lot of work for not much pay off
<gord> installing takes way longer than downloading here
<DJones> gord: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/banshee-tomboy-and-mono-dropped-from-ubuntu-12-04-cd/
<DJones> From default install anyway
<BigRedS> yeah, first I'd like the ability to install while downloading
<oimon_> Unknown perpetrators infiltrated a backdoor into several installation packages during an attack on groupware provider Horde's FTP server. HordeÂ 3.3.12, GroupwareÂ 1.2.10 and the webmail edition of the groupware product are all affected
<oimon_> nasty
<oimon_> undetected for several months
<AlanBell> ooh that isn't good
<popey> gord: you have ssd in your x220?
<mgdm> So. If someone's machien has had ALSA stuff overwritten, and we want to reinstall it all from packages, is it something like apt-get install --reinstall linux-sound-base^ ?
<popey> thinking about switching my 320GB rust for 115 GB SSD
<gord> popey, not yet, but yeah thinking the same thing
<popey> i have a spare one on my desk
<gord> don't need windows on the laptop anymore, might as well get a 100gb or so ssd for it
<popey> having to clear stuff to make space
 * mgdm has vague memories of the ^ from something popey said before
<popey> mgdm: the ^ is only used for tasks
<popey> e.g. ubuntu-desktop is a task
<mgdm> ah
<popey> whats the biggest no-stupid price ssd you can get these days? âº
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/278645-ocz-240gb-agility-3-2-5-sata-iii-ssd-read-525mb-s-write-500mb-s-agt3-25sat3-240g
<popey> golly
<bigcalm> popey: this is what I bought to put in my laptop for when 12.04 is useable (for me) http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004Z0S6SO
<popey> oh golly, x220 has sataIII 6Gb/s
<bigcalm> I have a 60gb OCZ 2 in my workstation and very happy with it
<popey> with 120GB I'd keep running out of space which would annoy me
<MooDoo> that's the problem i have now :(
<popey> my desktop has small ssd for / and bug rust for /home
<bigcalm> <popey> thinking about switching my 320GB rust for 115 GB SSD
<bigcalm> That's why I pointed at the 120gb
 * bigcalm shrugs
<popey> heh
<directhex> my nxt pc will have rust
<directhex> except with a baby to pay for, new pc will be in 2167
<popey> when is directhex 2.0 due?
<directhex> julyish
<popey> oh thats good
<popey> wont have to be preggers during the "hot" august summer
<popey> wifey was great with child with both of ours during hot summers and didnt enjoy that bit
<directhex> we have a large portable air conditioner
<directhex> technically for the chinchillas, but...
<directhex> 12000btu counts for something
<popey> oh golly http://www.ebuyer.com/260707-ocz-240gb-vertex-3-ssd-2-5-sata-iii-6gb-s-read-550mb-s-write-520mb-s-vtx3-25sat3-240g
<popey> yeah, i bought a portable air con when wifey was pregnant
<directhex> i wish i had an ssd :(
<directhex> and a pony :(
<gordonjcp> I can do you a pony
<oimon_> i'm trying to install a new baby at the moment...well not RIGHT now...
<oimon_> what's wrong with this pic? http://ubuntuone.com/1YQBVTdJOh04MXamp4uzks
<bigcalm> Your choice of OS
<bigcalm> It's slightly under exposed
<popey> what is the > arrow on the far right?
<bigcalm> I assume it's a way of scrolling though the system tray icons as there are too many
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> Sorry, notification area
<daubers> oimon_: I think it's trying to tell you that yuor wireless is disconnected :)
<oimon_> daubers: however, it's connected :D
<oimon_> it occasionally makes "doink" noises too
<davmor2> oimon_: your using windows?
<oimon_> it's the shared laptop we use to try and open docs sent by HR that never open in openoffice
<oimon_> it's the rule in HR that all documents must have been initially created in 2001 and then revised 100 times, even simple forms.
<popey> hmm, i have a server i upgraded from 10.04 to 12.04 and have installed ubuntu-desktop to do some testing (it has an ATI card)
<popey> I can logon from logon screen as guest but not as me
<popey> it just throws me back to the logon screen
<popey> logs I could look at?
<DJones> popey: That sounds like czajkowski's launchpad bug you were helping with this morning (wasn't that a similar problem about not being able to logon)
<popey> she was missing bits iirc
<popey> I have everything installed
<oimon_> .xsession-errors?
<oimon_> my unity desktop is taking >30 seconds to login atm :-\
<oimon_> on a core2duo
<popey> there is no .xsession-errors
<oimon_> sorry for dumb question ...do you have full write access to your home dir?
<oimon_> or disk full?
<oimon_> quotas?
<popey> yup, nope
<oimon_> my gnome classic session is showing unity launcher..thats not supposed to happen...
<popey> oooo
<popey> fun things in /var/log/auth.log
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/841887/
<oimon_> lightdm got updated today...
<oimon_> sudo usermod -a -G nopasswdlogin alan
<oimon_> popey: ^^
<popey> not sure I want to do that
<oimon_> popey: i also noticed https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+question/175468
<popey> good call oimon_ !
<popey> that did it
<popey> booooo unity2d
 * popey activates evil drivers
<oimon_> popey: which answer did it?
 * oimon_ sends wifey an email asking for the adonit jot stylus for his birthday
<gord> \o/ evil drivers
<gord> everyone can complain about non free software all they like, i wub my nvidia binary drivers
<oimon_> gord: remember in the early ubuntu days when a kernel update would break your box?
<gord> that still happens, libc change broken nvidia last week
<gord> broke*
<oimon_> eww
<gord> oh, google has started to spam me with popups telling me to install chrome when i go to google.com
<gord> makes me not want to use chrome
<popey> oimon_: removing Xauthority
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Warning! Shameless plug enclosed. - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=88
<czajkowski> gord_: popey what do you use for voip on ubuntu?
<davmor2> czajkowski: empathy with sofia-sip
<czajkowski> empathy :/
<czajkowski> noo
<czajkowski> hmm I thught if you searched for something and it wasn't installed it still showed up
<popey> czajkowski: I don't. i have a proper phone
<popey> cisco 7940 on my desk
<gord_> czajkowski, proper voip? i don't, can't get it to work
<davmor2> czajkowski: empathy with sofia-sip honest it just works, by the way for things to show up you need to type it in, in the applications screen not any ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: ahh
<czajkowski> that's a bit naff
<czajkowski> prefered it the other way
<czajkowski> but thanks
<czajkowski> popey: cheers
<davmor2> czajkowski: only annoying thing is you need to click a few buttons to get things like the dial pad to show
<pancro> czajkowski: also if you have android 2.3 or newer, there's a built-in SIP client in your phone
<pancro> right, time for FOOD
<czajkowski> wait when did pancro join here
<popey> hmm
<gord> popey, joystick calibration?
<popey> I have no joystick
<gord> anything analogue?
<popey> a mouse
<gord> very strange...
<gord> also, no joystick and yet mame? :P
<popey> âº
<popey> well, i do have a ps2->USB adapter, and a Gamecube->USB adapter
<popey> if i can find them
<davmor2> popey: just get a ps3 controller dude
<popey> no
<gord> i use a ps2 controller on my desktop, its nice
<davmor2> popey: why?
<popey> the controller I want has microswitches
<popey> for shootemups
<gord> always wanted a nice mame setup, but not a cabinet.. maybe the dual core revo with bluetooth controller hidden under the coffee table
<popey> i recently discovered...
<popey> !find gnome-video-arcade
<popey> really simple frontend to mame
<popey> i can has gc controller
<popey> now to find adapter
<mgdm> there's a BrewDog pub here with one of those arcadish machines built into a table
<gord> advance mame is a faaaaaantastic frontend, but they stopped updating it a few years back
<mgdm> wouldn't be hard to replicate with an Ikea glass-topped table, I'm sure :)
<OmNomDePlume> Goool!
<OmNomDePlume> Leverkusen score.
<mgdm> Leverkusen sounds like a beer.
<OmNomDePlume> Stella Keverkusen.
<OmNomDePlume> Leverkusen Export?
<OmNomDePlume> Beers suck, anyway.
<mgdm> As does football.
 * mgdm sips his beer :)
<popey> \o/ found it
<popey> aha!
<popey> i see why it's happening now
<popey> 20:38:02 <@popey> t
<popey> bah
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/7djsg68No8h39yhTmQuZMb
<popey> mame thinks my mouse is a joystick
<directhe`> the playstation d-pad is okay. not great, but okay. better than the xbox one
<directhe`> nintendo's design is patented
<popey> directhe`: does the palm browser use gstreamer? can it do html5?
<popey> http://developer.palm.com/blog/2012/02/sams-blog-february-releases-for-open-webos/ just saw that
<ali1234> if it's based on QtWebKit then i suspect the answers are no, yes
<popey> what would it do for media playback instead of gst?
<ali1234> good question
<ali1234> what does webkit use on windows? mac os?
<popey> good question
<ali1234> i assume you're talking specifically about html5 video
<ali1234> and not just any random mozilla plugin
<popey> yeah, but interested in the whole thing
<ali1234> which webkit also supports
<gord> pretty sure mozilla and webkit both compile in video decoder support for html5, the other things you need html5 to also do make farming decoding out to an api less easy
<ali1234> yep. it may very well be done through QMultimedia or phonon and very platform dependent
<ali1234> or it might be right within webkit itself
<ali1234> http://trac.webkit.org/wiki/QtWebKitMediaElementSupport
<Lcawte> *grumble* I'm not having a good time with Ubuntu Server... first I can't print through cups, and now I can't connect to webmin :/
<ali1234> webmin
<ali1234> >:|
<Azelphur_> printers
<Azelphur_> >:|
<directhe`> popey: it's webkit, it does some <video>, but like most of webos, lacks gpu acceleration
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-15
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] 12.04 Feature Freeze This Week - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4536
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Lens - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/15/ubuntu-accomplishments-lens/
<ali1234> supposing I had a zillion png files and I wanted to convert them to jpg
<ali1234> if i put them all on a NFS share and then write a converter program that silent skips png files when a jpg already exists (or rather, if creating it fails due to it already existing), could I run that across multiple machines - ie a cluster?
<ali1234> it seems like someone would have tried this before. does this type of system have a specific name i can google for more information?
<directhe`> ali1234: sounds like a trivially parallel task, but you need to manually parallelize your problem set
<ali1234> it is trivially parallel yes
<ali1234> i'm not actually doing png to jpg
<directhe`> even if this means "for i in a*.png" on machine 1, "for i in b*.png" on machine 2, etc
<ali1234> but the idea is the same: each input file creates exactly one output
<ali1234> it's a lot slower task as well so bandwidth isn't an issue
<ali1234> do i really need to split the work like that? can't i just let the NFS handle it for me?
<ali1234> ie try: for i in *.png... except OSError: pass
<ali1234> or whatever exception you get when you try to create a file that already exists
<ali1234> th ereason i ask is because i'll be writing that code anyway so that the whole job can be continued if it is stopped
<ali1234> i'd like to be able to add and remove machines fromt he cluster at will too :)
<ali1234> well i'm just going to implement it and see what happens
<directhe`> ali1234: your problem if you do it in order is obvious, no?
<ali1234> the obvious problem is that every node will attempt to process every file
<directhe`> machine 1 sees no foo.jpg, so starts converting foo.png. machine 2 sees no food.jpg, so starts converting foo.jpg. machine 1 finishes conversion, writes foo.jpg
<ali1234> that supposes that my program doesn't attempt to open the file *first* and then lock it
<ali1234> that needs to be an atomic operation of course
<ali1234> the output file i mean
<ali1234> if that fails, it silently goes to the next file
<ali1234> the the first instance opens foo.jpg, opens foo.png, converts, writes to foo.jpg
<ali1234> the second instance attempts to open foo.jpg, fails, then goes to foo1.jpg
<ali1234> this seems like an obvious idea. it might mean a lot of collisions if all instances were converting several files per second, but they are not
<ali1234> the actual conversion does about 1 file per minute per CPU core
<ali1234> actually it would do this:
<ali1234> if output file exists and is exactly 42 * 32 bytes, skip input file
<directhe`> what you really want is a parallel job scheduler.
<ali1234> else attempt to open output file for exclusive writing
<ali1234> if that fails, skip input file
<ali1234> else, process the input file
<directhe`> let's say you have a million images, and 10 machines. you don't split it into ten 100,000 lots, you split it into a whole lot of 60 image lots.
<directhe`> submit this whole bunch of 60-image jobs to the scheduler
<ali1234> i specifically don't want to write a job scheduler
<directhe`> so use one of the shelf? believe ir or not, other humans have done this stuff before
<ali1234> i've looked at every available system for doing this
<directhe`> yeah, shoulda stayed in my game rather than trying to help
<ali1234> they all either don't work like this, are so low level you have to write most of it yourself, or would require me to rewrite the whole thing in java
<ali1234> this is about the time that people tell me just to use hadoop
<hamitron> why not just have 1 comp do it over a longer period of time?
<ali1234> because computers get rebooted in the real world
<ali1234> therefore the software must be able to skip already processed files
<ali1234> the easiest way to do that is just to check if the output file already exists
<ali1234> so, as i said, i have to implement that check anyway
<ali1234> now, i can either:
<ali1234> 1) implement the check in a slightly nuanced way that makes it possible to cluster the software with zero extra work
<ali1234> or 2) go and spend a month learning hadoop and then rewrite the entire software for a feature that will save me perhaps 1 week of processing time
<hamitron> or index the files in a separate text file, numbered, then process them in that order..... but logging to a file the ones done
<ali1234> that's basically 3) implement my own half-assed job control server
<hamitron> so you know which file to start on next time
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> the worst of all possible options :)
<hamitron> half-assed is better than been fully assed, if you can't be assed
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> if it is a one off, I wouldn't go to the trouble of setting something great up
<hamitron> just do something to get it done
<Azelphur> anyone know how I view POSTDATA in firefoxes web console?
<Azelphur> It was always turned off by default, but now I can't see the on button for it anywhere
<Azelphur> aha, right click on the net button :P
<directhe`> this is absolutely a job for condor. but i'm sure ali1234 already rejected that one.
<Azelphur> Anyone know a little about RSA and mind me poking them with a couple questions?
<ali1234> condor eh?
<ali1234> well let's see. it works by wrapping system calls so my software will run in it
<ali1234> what it doesn;t do is any kind of job control
<ali1234> i would need to implement that myself
<ali1234> so let's say i implement that using the scheme i've outlined above
<ali1234> then i could run my software on NFS
<ali1234> *or* i could run it inside condor
<ali1234> so, condor doesn't actually help me at all
<directhe`> nobody in the history of computing has ever thrown a bunch of shell scripts at a job scheduler before, clearly
<ali1234> i'm sure they have
<directhe`> i think i'm going to go to bed. you have fun with your unique little computing problem
<ali1234> see here's the problem
<ali1234> you have totally failed to answer my very simple original question
<ali1234> all you;ve done is say "that's easy, use this", and then suggested a solution that doesn't actually help at all
<ali1234> and made lots of sarcastic remarks
<directhe`> "<ali1234> if i put them all on a NFS share and then write a converter program that silent skips png files when a jpg already exists (or rather, if creating it fails due to it already existing), could I run that across multiple machines - ie a cluster?"
<directhe`> yes.
<directhe`> there. question answered.
<ali1234> was that really so hard?
<directhe`> however, the scheme you keep outlining for doing it is retarded. but you're really not interested in hearing it.
<directhe`> but since anything anyone ever in the history of creation has ever said which goes against your preferred technical solutions is clearly wrong, i'll leave it as an exercise to the reader as to why
<directhe`> nothing says "it's bedtime!" like six years running a parallel computing facility, eh?
<ali1234> on the contrary, i'm very interested in hearing it, assuming it is a logical, fact-based reason, rather than an argument from authority
<ali1234> which is so far all you have presented
<hamitron> isn't there a command to run a command on another machine?
<directhe`> hamitron: "ssh"
<hamitron> hmmm, it was something else I recall
<hamitron> or maybe to run a command on lots of machines
 * hamitron shrugs
<directhe`> ali1234: fine. in my experience, this is a task which is suited to a batch job scheduler. there are two main classes of batch job schedulers - cycle scavangers like xgrid or condor, and dedicated managers like torque and gridengine
<directhe`> ali1234: if i were to try and accomplish your task, i would write a bash script which could translate an array job name (e.g. 1098[4].hostname) into some unique set of images to process (an hour is a good measure), submit a big freaking array job, and let the scheduler keep throwing out chunks of work to needy nodes as & when free nodes become available
<directhe`> ali1234: e.g. if you have a million images numbered 0000001 to 1000000, then do some basic division of $PBS_ARRAYID in your submission script so a single job works on, like, 60 images
<directhe`> ali1234: batch job scheduling, and shell scripting, are solved problems. "for i in foo do myapp $i" isn't rocket science either.
<ali1234> how will that system handle a restart of every machine in the entire cluster?
<directhe`> the job gets marked failed by the scheduler, and is subsequently rescheduled.
<directhe`> by "the job" i mean "the specific jobid of the job running on a failed device", i.e. one piece of an array juob
<directhe`> or more than one piece
<directhe`> worst case the failed jobs get marked as held, and need to be released by the scheduler admin
<ali1234> so this system requires a database of jobs which are either currently running or failed?
<ali1234> and presumably the completed ones too
<directhe`> ali1234: batch submission systems use a daemon on a "master" node, which handles submission of jobs to nodes, and accounting of status. you can read historic information such as job run time, queued jobs, etc
<directhe`> e.g. http://www.clusterresources.com/torquedocs/commands/qstat.shtml
<directhe`> i'm totally going to bed now, i have to drive to cambridge tomorrow
<ali1234> ok. goodnight
<AlanBell> morning all
<DJones> Morning folks
<MooDoo> morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<mattt> morning
<popey> Morning
<BigRedS> Morning!
 * BigRedS is surprised each morning to find that 'morning' doesn't tab-complete
<bigcalm> Good morning :)
<bigcalm> From apticron this morning
<bigcalm> * /etc/lsb-release, /etc/issue, /etc/issue.net: Bump version number to
<bigcalm>     10.04.4 in preparation for the point release.
<bigcalm> Surely it should wait until April is here before that change is made?
 * czajkowski waves
<bigcalm> Ello czajkowski :)
<bigcalm> Do I want this as my wedding ring or will people think it's tacky? http://www.kinektdesign.com/product-gear-ring.php
<czajkowski> bigcalm: I think you'll spend forever cleaning it and getting fluff and dirt out of the groves
<bigcalm> czajkowski: that seems likely :(
<popey> gord: new ssd may not fit in x220. bay is 7mm, drive is 9.3mm â¨
<bigcalm> Goodness
<gord> popey, yeah you have to be careful, intel ones you can make fit
<popey> too late, ordered the ocz one
<bigcalm> I didn't consider that when I bought one for my laptop. It does fit though thankfully
<popey> http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?89168-Vertex-3-X220-compability&p=645699&viewfull=1#post645699
<popey> might fit, others have managed
<BigRedS> I thought there was a standard for laptop drives?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<czajkowski> hmm on the latest update  I swich to a different application
<czajkowski> I click on terminal on the left hand side menu and instead of showing me this irc window as before it launches a new terminal
<czajkowski> oh but I do seem to have hud
 * czajkowski peers at gord you broke my laptop didn't you :p
<bigcalm> popey: found it http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2012/02/03/white-trash-repairs-when-in-doubt-close-your-eyes-and-shove/
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> Thought you'd like that
<popey> bigcalm: there are numerous standards â¹
<bigcalm> popey: I think you mean BigRedS ;)
<popey> bah
<popey> just managed to slide another 9mm drive in
<popey> missus
<bigcalm> No worries :)
<bigcalm> Oh my
<popey> such a tight squeeze, the "VOID if removed" stickers came off
<bigcalm> Whoops
<popey> if this goes in, it's never coming out!
<popey> (again, missus)
<bigcalm> Take an angle grinder to it
<popey> some people take the shell off the device
<BigRedS> Ah, that's the lovely thing about standards :(
<czajkowski> and compiz crashes
<czajkowski> bugger
<bigcalm> Why do my chair arms keep sinking?
<bigcalm> Silly Aeron
 * popey wants aeron
 * bigcalm gives popey an Aero
<bigcalm> Sorry, the n fell off
<gord> ah id love an aero
<gord> nice mint one
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> Hayley's laptop has a bad case of the malwares. Tempted to wipe and put Ubuntu on it. Think she might notice the difference though
<MooDoo> bigcalm: not if you theme it to look like windows lol
<sagaci> or temporarily dualboot
<MooDoo> wubi?
<bigcalm> If MS Office could run 100% perfectly without any faffing on Linux, then I think she would give it a go
<DJones> bigcalm: http://www.ylmf.org/en/
<mattt> bigcalm: just tell her it's office 2013
<mattt> "complete redesign"
<directhe`> reformat. "forget" to back up something important like sims saves. that's always educational for windows users.
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
<MooDoo> davmor2: how are you br'a :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: tired,  but not as tired as czajkowski I wager
<MooDoo> davmor2: why what's she been doing?
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: she staying just up the road shhhhhhh
<davmor2> bigcalm: hey dude how's life
<MooDoo> davmor2: huh?
<bigcalm> DJones: I don't think that she cares that much about the look of the OS, more that MS Office won't work 100%
<bigcalm> davmor2: still full of curry from last night
<bigcalm> You?
<davmor2> MooDoo: She has a mini sprint/training with mrevell for her new job so got the 06:23 train to wolves this morning and her hotel is in stone throwing distance
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice
<popey> \o/ ssd installed
<MooDoo> o/
 * jpds watches davmor2 throw some stones.
<davmor2> jpds: no czajkowski needs to be in the hotel for me to hit her with them :P
<davmor2> jpds: the worrying things is would throw them back :D
<jpds> davmor2: Mean.
 * czajkowski waves
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski an empathy hug early trains and working all day == no fun
<Myrtti> I can haz XKCD progress bar in Ubuntu plox?
<Myrtti> I wants XKCD progress bar.
<czajkowski> it's not the worst
<czajkowski> and I get to learn stuff
<czajkowski> so win win  tbh
<bigcalm> And you're in Wolverhampton, the centre of the Linux world!
<bigcalm> (I might be embellishing the truth a little)
<czajkowski> just a tiny bit
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: man, yeah
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: pull random facts from wikipedia based on the displayed time
<BigRedS> Oh man that needs to be implemented
<Myrtti> IKR?!?!
<popey> âº
<popey> had to decipher IKR. I like.
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: also the centre of Wolverhampton has pork roll shops
 * popey uses gparted to copy/paste his partition from rust to ssd
<Laney> Are any of the Thomas train engines black?
<Laney> (from the "on topic questions" file)
<jaustin> Does anyone know the etiquette about finding sponsors for uploads? Is it considered ok to prod someone on IRC?
<popey> i think one is
<Laney> happen to know its name?
<Laney> the story is that I was waving at it while canoeing on Sunday and then didn't notice the approaching rapid and ended up mashing my face down some rocks
 * Myrtti throws money at the computer screen
<jaustin> Donald and douglass are black :)
<popey> Mavis
<Myrtti> please someone implement XKCD progress bar
<popey> and Neville
<popey> http://www.myfavoritetoys.com/character-guide/thomas-friends-character-guide.html?limit=all
<popey> "Neville is a black steam engine who looks more like a diesel engine. "
<Laney> yeah i think it was neville
<Laney> the passengers were waving back :(
<Laney> aside: the Llangollen railway is cool beans
<davmor2> popey, gord: I looked into the code for lenses but it was over my head for now any chance you could throw together an xkcd lens :D
<davmor2> you know it's what lenses were designed for :D
<gord> i actually don't like xkcd :P so no :P
<davmor2> gord: okay how about a general COMICS LENS then :D
<Laney> RSS lens would be good actually
<popey> heretic gord
<popey> i would like a 'comic' lens which has scopes for multiple online comics like xkcd, dilbert etc
<popey> search for "wedding" and it finds comics for that topic
<popey> or type "today" and get all of todays comics
<BigRedS> I bet there'll be a meme and a lolcats one before too long
 * brunogirin got irc running on phone so no excuse to miss meetings anymore
<popey> uau
<popey> yay even
<davmor2> popey: as I say I looked at it but the code was way over my head currently for a novice python guy
<gord> even the python lens examples?
<davmor2> gord: yeah I had a look I'm just not there yet
<davmor2> gord: don't forget unlike you, I used to drive a Lorry for a living,  I've only been learning python for the last few month in any sort of serious fashion and only to make automation easier :)  I really am a newbie at programming
<davmor2> gord: I'll get there just not this release :D
<gordonjcp> davmor2: really?
<gordonjcp> have you tried programming python *while* driving a lorry?
<gordonjcp> it's possible with care and some custom input devices
<davmor2> gordonjcp: you need all your wits about you with the prats on the road nowadays, especially in a gas tanker :D
<gordonjcp> that's true
<gordonjcp> text-to-speech works well even in a noisy cab
<gordonjcp> and then I used a gearstick-mounted PTT button from a radio to enter stuff in Morse Code
<gordonjcp> mostly for controlling an MP3 player, but one day I realised it would work with vim too...
<Myrtti> programming python while you float weightlessly in space is possible, as proven by XKCD
<davmor2> Myrtti: and back to needing a comics lens again ;)
<Myrtti> I think you all need help with your unity lenses, but I'm just using my computer here thank you very much
<davmor2> czajkowski: how was you journey up?
<BigRedS> aptitude really needs a --dontbestupid switch
<popey> removed linux-image ?
<BigRedS> haha, not quite
<BigRedS> every time I use it it seems to want to uninstall half my system
<BigRedS> and sometimes it proposes a solution that involves removing two packages, and then when it goes on to say what it's actually going to do, the REMOVED list is about nine screenfuls long...
<bigcalm> Maybe it doesn't need those things
<BigRedS> well, it doesn't *need* them, but I normally want them :)
<bigcalm> Is it a list of suggested removals or a list of what will be removed?
<popey> anyone fancy confirming bug 932718 on 12.04 ?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 932718 in unity "Keyboard overlay gets in the way when zooming" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932718
<BigRedS> bigcalm: nah, it's whats to be removed
<BigRedS> stuff like libapache2-mod-php5
<BigRedS> my impression's probably not helped by only normally turning to aptitude when apt-get is a bit confused
<bigcalm> I sometimes have to use aptitude to force a full upgrade (usually linux images being held back)
<popey> i never use aptitude
<BigRedS> nah, nor i generally. Mostly because of it's fondness for breaking things
<bigcalm> I only seem to need to use it on my parents' viglen mpc-l running 10.04
<ikonia> NIS - you lose, I win !
<directhe`> ypbind && yplol
<ikonia> I have defeated it
<ikonia> hail me, worship me
<ikonia> ypwin
<ikonia> Amazon UK - you fail
<BigRedS> AWS has mostly put me off buying things from Amazon
<ikonia> AWS ?
<BigRedS> I get a feeling of impending doom at abot the second 'a' of the URL
<ikonia> could you explain, I don't know what you are talking about
<ikonia> and it sounds curious
<BigRedS> Amazon's cloudy service
<czajkowski> herrro
<MooDoo> er czajkowski go out and come back in, you don't greet us like that now do you
<czajkowski> I do
<czajkowski> herrro
<MooDoo> pah!  you're not the czajkowski we know an love, who are you?  get her davmor2
<czajkowski> byebye
<MooDoo> hugs czajkowski :)
<ikonia> BigRedS: so you don't use amazon shopping due to your concerns on their aws
<ikonia> (didn't realise you meant aws as their cloud service rather than a shopping function)
<BigRedS> ikonia: haha, well, every time I type the URL I get flashbacks
<BigRedS> Nah, really I've nothing much against it, but I definitely don't have any particular fondness for the company any more
<ikonia> a little dissapointing, thought you may have had a juicy story of whiy it was bad
<BigRedS> Er, poor I/O, poor networking, poor scalability of their infrastrucutre, poor support
<BigRedS> basically it's pretty bad at all of its selling points
<ikonia> ooh, I know the cloud service....you're bad mouthing that to the wrong person :)
<BigRedS> ahhhh
<BigRedS> oh, you wanted shop horror stories? Nah, none of those
<ikonia> I just thought you may have had a juicy story on why AWS->Shopping was linked
<BigRedS> oh, no
<BigRedS> well isn't the shopping hosted on aws?
<BigRedS> I thought that's what aws grew out of. But, yeah, no bad times with the shoppping thing
<ikonia> it's hosted on "a" aws platfom, not the public one
<BigRedS> oh, yeah
<ikonia> it's a bold statment to not host it on the public platform ;)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<BigRedS> though I like the allegation that aws basically grew out of amazon having built a pretty good foundaton for the shop and then renting it out
<ikonia> it might well be true, I'm just being a bit cheeky as Amazon have annoyed me today
<BigRedS> haha, I've left the amazony stuff now. Amazon don't get to annoy me daily any more
<bigcalm> mrevell: czajkowski knocking your connection about? :P
<czajkowski> no I'm being good !
<bigcalm> Where's the fun in being good? :)
<czajkowski> bah I keep setting off hdd by hitting alt with irc
<czajkowski> >:(
<czajkowski> pancro: herrrrro fancy seeing you here
<pancro> czajkowski: hola!
<pancro> czajkowski: I tend to hang out here but I'm usually quiet
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> pancro: what did you have for todays lunch ?
<pancro> czajkowski: oops, I haven't posted it yet, have I? kidney bean soup with onions and red wine :) a labour of love, I started soaking the beans last night!
<czajkowski> I had yummy sandwiches and fresh fruit
<czajkowski> so there :p
<czajkowski> gord: popey in irssi when you alt 1 is hud jumping out for ye and being annoyingly in the way ?
<gord> don't use irssi
<czajkowski> clearly :)
<gord> but yeah until a fix in compiz lands, hud will launch on other key combinations if you are too quick with them
<popey> i dont have hud installed it seems
<popey> ii  unity          5.2.0-0ubuntu4 Interface designed for efficiency of space a
<popey> should that have it?
<popey> or do I need to install it separately?
<gord> that won't have it
<czajkowski> it landed last night but I alt key for all channels on irc and alt 1 keeps launching hud
<gord> it didn't land ;) you are running the staging ppa or something
 * czajkowski knew gord would do it 
<czajkowski> fecker;)
<popey> gord: get the vertex 3 ssd.. oh my golly
<gord> popey, how much did it set you back?
<popey> too much
<gord> think i might wait till a US trip and pick one up for half the price ;)
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/260707-ocz-240gb-vertex-3-ssd-2-5-sata-iii-6gb-s-read-550mb-s-write-520mb-s-vtx3-25sat3-240g
<popey> hah
<gord> geez, you don't need to read 550MB/s :P
<BigRedS> AlanBell: what's that CRM software yoyu keep pimping to people?
<diplo> BigRedS, http://www.vtiger.com/ i believe
<ikonia> AlanBell: do you have a cms recommendation ?
<bigcalm> CMSMS or WordPress or Drupal
<bigcalm> Depends what you need to do with it
<czajkowski> anyone in here running 12.04 and use a terminal for irc?  alt tabbing through my applications will not display my irc terminal? have to keep restarting it
<BigRedS> diplo: aha, ta!
<BigRedS> czajkowski: I do at home, if you nag me this eve I'll see if I can replicate.
<BigRedS> I normally do it in guake
<czajkowski> so if I alt tab through applications I can see it
<czajkowski> but it wont launch
<czajkowski> if I click on terminal on the side bar a new terminal pops out
<czajkowski> if I minimise every single last applcation
<czajkowski> there is my irc window
<czajkowski> :/
<BigRedS> odd
<BigRedS> I'll not go into my normal diatribe about working in unity right now, given your new employer :)
<czajkowski> BigRedS: good of you
 * czajkowski huggles davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: you tired yet
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> had tea and bickies so am sorted
<christel> mmmbickies
 * hamitron is trying to cut down
<davmor2> christel, czajkowski: see when I read that I saw tea and brickies which had a whole different connotation
<Azelphur> how do I find out what package provides a binary in /usr/bin?
<ikonia> apt-file ?
<christel> davmor2: haha
<ikonia> davmor2 reads "Dave Amour" to me
<Azelphur> ikonia: hmm, apt-file -f search /usr/bin/java shows nothing
<ikonia> java is a symlink check out /etc/alternatives
<Azelphur> nothing for /etc/alternatives/java either
<ikonia> Azelphur: if you do ls -la /usr/bin/java is it a file or a link ?
<Azelphur> it's a link to /etc/alternatives/java
<ikonia> Azelphur: and then ls -la /etc/alternatives/java
<Azelphur> ikonia: the magical trail ends at /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/bin/java which apt-file also doesn't know about
<ikonia> now that is surprising
<ikonia> I'm assuming /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/bin/java is actually a file
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> but still, I'm mainly trying to get it to use java-7 so if anyone knows what the arg is for update-alternatives that'd be just as handy
<ikonia> Azelphur: sudo apt-file update first ?
<ikonia> AlanBell: then sudo apt-file search /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/bin/java
<ikonia> oops
<ikonia> sorry Azelphur ^
<ikonia> or /usr/bin/java
<Azelphur> yep that's got it, ty :P
<ikonia> there you go
<ikonia> there is no escape
<Azelphur> and there we go, update alternatives fired off using java 7, much better \o/
<zleap> hello
<zleap> hi
<popey> hello zleap
<zleap> hi
<zleap> sorry was akf
<zleap> afk
<bigcalm> Quiet afternoon
<zleap> yeah
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Liam Proven] Still using Ubuntu 10.04? You may find this info about backports of newer kernels very useful. - http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/28391.html
<daubers> o/
<daubers> choo choo
<danfish> afternoon
<danfish> I'm now running 12.04 on my laptop and cyanogenmod ice cream sandwich - guess that makes me a cutting edge cool kid :P
<zleap> nice
<bigcalm> Where's mrevil when you need him?
<MartijnVdS> mrivvle?
<bigcalm> mrevel, but that's boring
<bigcalm> mrevell even
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> battery no longer shows that its being drained
<czajkowski> and doesnt show when it's not charging either
<czajkowski> that's rather flipping annoying
<AlanBell> evening all
 * AlanBell has no desktop :(
<czajkowski> :(
<AlanBell> I have desktop wallpaper but nothing on it, network manager does appear to have connected to the wireless which is nice
 * bigcalm thinks there be gremlins
<AlanBell> dist-upgrade and a reboot for starters I think
 * bigcalm shakes his fist at symfony
<bigcalm> Respect my view damn it
<Azelphur> popey: you have a disco ball? I want one :o
<popey> âº
<popey> my brother had one in his kitchen, was always a hit at parties
<popey> I said I liked it so he bought me one
<Azelphur> haha :D
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mirror-Motor-Battery-Powered-Plastic/dp/B000BN6LE0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1329333137&sr=8-5
<popey> thats the motor
<davmor2> czajkowski: go into power manager and change the settings if that is available now
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silver-200-Lightweight-Mirror-Ball/dp/B000KFZ4U6/ref=pd_bxgy_ce_img_b
<popey> the ball
<MartijnVdS> popey: do you also play 70s disco music?
<popey> i do
<popey> spotify :D
<MartijnVdS> Looks like something to attach to an arduino .. :)
<jutnux> Evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o jutnux
<CTtechguy> anyone here work with Amazon Cloud Services?
<CTtechguy> I am looking for the best solution to move an ami to a different region
<davmor2> gord: why o why o why does unity crash when I run ldtp scripts on software center?
<davmor2> popey: Ha hippy join us in the 80's best of all music ;)
<czajkowski> bah update gives me tons of erros
<czajkowski> tonightis not going well
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I hope you're not working
<czajkowski> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/843459/
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> watching tv on laptop
<bigcalm> Ah :)
<czajkowski> but trying to get the icon to show my battery is charging when plugged in which it currently is not showing
<czajkowski> davmor2: need I point out to you A) I am very close by B) I shall see you tomorrow eveing and inflict wrath
<davmor2> czajkowski: What?
<davmor2> czajkowski: I said a nice thing and that made you rise to the bait faster than their nasty ones ;)
<AlanBell> poor davmor2
 * AlanBell gets out a very very small violin
<davmor2> AlanBell: Yeah she's only threatening me cause she feels safe all that way up there in her hotel :D
<gordonjcp> the czajkowski in the silver mountain
<bigcalm> czajkowski: davmor2: Hayley can't make it, so it'll just be me tomorrow night
<davmor2> AlanBell: http://g.co/maps/ch6rp
<AlanBell> I don't need your help to stalk czajkowski, I have latitude for that :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: no point A is me point B is czajkowski  nothing to be scared of at all
<bigcalm> That is a little close for comfort
<bigcalm> I wonder if mrevil would like a lift tomorrow
<davmor2> bigcalm: he'll be across the road
<bigcalm> Ah, not going home after work is sensible
<bigcalm> Do we have a time?
<davmor2> bigcalm: from what I understand they will finish at 6 -ish and meal is a 8-ish not a lot of time ask him tomorrow though
<bigcalm> Okie dokie
<bigcalm> His lack of online presence in the evening is quite unlike most users in here
<AlanBell> czajkowski: did you find a home for that other ticket?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: nope
<AlanBell> might be able to relieve you of it, my nephew needs to come or my brother-in-law won't be allowed out
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> sure
<AlanBell> great, Tomas will love it :)
<czajkowski> np
<bigcalm> mgdm: considering using blowfish to encrypt data sent in API calls. Is it considered to be a safe method?
<mgdm> bigcalm: I've done it before, though why not just use HTTPS?
<bigcalm> mgdm: this will be on an internal network, still worth the time to set up https?
<mgdm> I would, with cacert or self-signed
<bigcalm> It'll be self-signed I think
<bigcalm> Ok, saves me messing with mcrypt
<bigcalm> You can't have https vhosts iirc?
<AlanBell> you can have one
<bigcalm> One per IP
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you can have several
<AlanBell> one per port, unless you do clever stuff
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> it's called SNI
<bigcalm> Apache has changed then?
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication
<AlanBell> ^^ clever stuff
<MartijnVdS> well Apache has changed, a little, to support SNI
<MartijnVdS> but IE on XP doesn't do SNI
<MartijnVdS> so if any of your clients is on XP, don't do SNI
<bigcalm> Ah, sod it :)
 * bigcalm goes to play Rayman Originals on the Wii
<bigcalm> A better use of my evening
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it just means he isn't working right now
<bigcalm> davmor2: that would indicate that his social life does not revolve around this channel
<davmor2> I know I'm normal off line this time of night too though so I can't say too much
<CTtechguy> hello
<davmor2> CTtechguy: hello
<popey> yo
<CTtechguy> whats going on?
<Azelphur> People are in IRC, talking about Ubuntu.
<Azelphur> And elephants.
<ali1234> we never talk about ubuntu :(
<Azelphur> Indeed :(
<CTtechguy> white elephants?
<Azelphur> Yes, white elephants, everywhere.
<ali1234> except when i;m trolling unity again
<brobostigon> we also talk about food and beer,
<CTtechguy> NICE
<CTtechguy> I like food and beer
<brobostigon> also. chilli ala popey, is good.
 * CTtechguy is across the pond so not sure what that is
<brobostigon> CTtechguy: popey is a user here, and a major contributer to the community, and he made his own chilli recipe.
<popey> nah, I'm just some guy, you know
<gord> http://i.imgur.com/wnXpF.jpg might be the greatest keyboard in the world... i don't even care that its pink
<brobostigon> zaphod beeblebrox, hhgttg.
<popey> haha
<mgdm> blimey
<CTtechguy> I read that your group has a lot of get togethers
<Azelphur> haha
<CTtechguy> I cant seem to find a local Ubuntu LUG near me
<popey> where are you based?
<CTtechguy> US
<Azelphur> CTtechguy: probably because your looking for a Ubuntu LUG, you'd have better luck finding a LUG or Linux user group :p
<CTtechguy> Connecticut
<popey> can you be more specific ?
<Azelphur> (Are there even any Ubuntu LUGS?)
<popey> heh
<zleap> Azelphur, well there are loco teams
<Azelphur> that's us *serious face*
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConnecticutTeam
<CTtechguy> we are a small state and only a few user groups
<popey> seems quiet
<zleap> CTtechguy, Where abouts, or can i guess conneticut
<zleap> sorry if there is a spelling error there
<popey> CTtechguy: start one!
<CTtechguy> yeah not much movement in that group in awhile
<Myrtti> pink mentioned
<CTtechguy> guess Ill start with ConnecticutTeam mailing list
<popey> excellent idea
<popey> also see #ubuntu-locoteams for the loco council who can give you hints and tips âº
<CTtechguy> popey:  thanks for the info!
<popey> np
<popey> good luck!
<popey> you're welcome to hang out here too btw
<CTtechguy> I just might do that...got a real good first impression from you all
 * brobostigon is watching an interesting prog, on more4 about a OCD hoarder.
<popey> i know one of them
<brobostigon> ok.
<popey> drat, there isnt a more4+1
<mgdm> that'd be more5, surely
<popey> haha
<mgdm> Like ITV3 is ITV2+1
<mgdm> or something :)
<popey> it'll be repeated no doubt
<mgdm> Or on 4OD, which is actually not bad
<popey> the guy I know ripped his kitchen out 15 years ago and never installed a new one
<popey> and collects all kind of stuff
<brobostigon> i have more+1 here.
<brobostigon> more4+1.
<popey> virgin doesnt
<brobostigon> :(
<popey> removed years ago
<brobostigon> ohwell.
<popey> wow
<popey> poor guy
<brobostigon> agreed.
<popey> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2076822/Richard-Wallace-hoarded-rubbish-seen-space.html
<ali1234> considering that google maps has a resolution slightly better than 1 pixel per meter, that claim is somewhat disingenuous
<mgdm> it's also somewhat disingenuous to say that Google Maps photos are 'from space'
<ali1234> so basically the whole thing is nonsense
<popey> dailymail, say no more
<gord> technically inaccurate! the best kind of inaccurate.
<mgdm> "a mountain of newspapers included 34 years' worth of the Daily Mail
<mgdm> that explains a lot
<gord> that is a lot of trash
<mgdm> also, the DM's site does a ridiculous override thing which means what ends up on your clipboard is not what you selected
<mgdm> or rather it is, but it has this 'Read more' crap at the bottom
<AlanBell> what is the collective noun for a lot of copies of the Daily Mail?
<ali1234> mgdm: wow, how the hell doe sit do that??
<mgdm> ali1234: I'm not quite sure, though I've seen it done before
<Azelphur> How do I up the OS thread limit?
<ali1234> Azelphur: probably with ulimit
<mgdm> ali1234: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6344588/how-does-financial-times-add-a-disclaimer-when-pasting-text/6347927#6347927
<ali1234> now i will make a site like commandlinefu except it also adds rm -rf to the end of everything you copy :)
<mgdm> hah
<popey> haha
<popey> brilliant
<mgdm> I better keep quiet about that at work
<mgdm> they'll want it too
<ali1234> is there any legitimate use for "oncopy"
<mgdm> I can't think of one, however I think there might well be
<mgdm> I fail to see it right now
<czajkowski> popey: whats the magical command line to fix a desktop on ubuntu in case things are a bit messed up
<czajkowski> the one with the ^ ?
<mgdm> sudo apt magic-fixy-fairies --sort-it-out^
<mgdm> (sorry)
<popey> depends how its messed up
<popey> that only fixes the 'some bits arent installed' issue
<popey> sudo apt-get update
<popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<czajkowski> s/w center is now gone from side bar and battery issue is pita
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> you should use update-manager, it won't remove things like software center and ubuntu-desktop
<czajkowski> I'm not laughing :/
<ali1234> in particlar, when update-manager says there is a problem, you should read what it says, not just go and do it with apt-get :)
<popey> heh
<ali1234> which happily *will* remove software center
<popey> i like the warning you get from apt-get when you try to remove everything
<popey> makes you type a sentence like 'i really want to do this'
<czajkowski> cannot seem to get past http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/843639/ this issue on updates
<popey> those are warnings not errors
<czajkowski> popey: aye but I've no idea why :/ and they weren't there yesterday
<czajkowski> maybe I should just sleep
<jacobw> easy to fix
<bigcalm> Sleep and dream of curry
<popey> someone wrote a script once to get all the keys you're missing iirc
<popey> http://popey.com/blog/2009/06/05/Easy_Script_To_Get_And_Install_PPA_GPG_Keys/ hehe
<jacobw> gpg --recv-keys 40976EAF437D05B5 --key-server keyserver.ubuntu.com
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<czajkowski> jacobw: what does that do ?
<jacobw> receives the key id from the keyserver
<popey> yay, just run the script here to fix all mine
 * jacobw is enjoying tea
 * brobostigon is enjoying a guin and tonic.
<brobostigon> gin*
<jacobw> have you ever tried guiness and ribena?
<jacobw> it sounds awful, but its good :)
<brobostigon> no, and it doesnt sound very good,
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<czajkowski> nn folks
<brobostigon> jacobw: what ratio?
<jacobw> goodnight
<brobostigon> good night czajkowski o/
<AlanBell> Myrtti: popey: the onboard model-m theme is arriving in bug #932855
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 932855 in onboard (Ubuntu) "New release available: version 0.97.0 - debian source attached" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932855
<Myrtti> wohey!
<AlanBell> I think it is the default too
<jacobw> brobostigon: something like 9 parts guiness
<popey> AlanBell: know of any other OSK's ?
<popey> other than onboard and maliit?
<jacobw> brobostigon: very little ribena is needed
<brobostigon> jacobw: guiness 9 / 1 ribena ?
<jacobw> OSKs?
<popey> On Screen Keyboard
<jacobw> brobostigon: yeah, it justs takes the edge of the guiness
<popey> edge?
<popey> wuss!
<AlanBell> popey: the gnome one is caribou
 * jacobw googles maliit
 * popey googles caribou
<brobostigon> jacobw: i will try a tiny amount,so i dont wreck a whole pint,
<AlanBell> https://live.gnome.org/Caribou
<popey> oh, not ready
<AlanBell> yeah, nowhere near onboard standards
<AlanBell> NIH
<popey> â¹
<jacobw> http://labs.teague.com/?p=1451
<ali1234> i can't really blame them for not using onboard, it is absolutely awful
<AlanBell> onboard could be the GNOME on screen keyboard, if it wasn't started as an Ubuntu summer of code project
<Myrtti> so if I upgrade my tablet on to precise I should be getting that onboard exactly when or already?
<ali1234> onboard is roughly as good as the oscreen keyboard app on the amiga
<popey> there are too few decent OSKs
<AlanBell> Myrtti: it should go in with the feature freeze rush, before friday
<Myrtti> ALRIGHT
<Myrtti> finally a good enough reason to upgrade some device into precise
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, but by friday it sould be slightly better
<ali1234> some of the problems of onboard include: does not automatically appear when needed, does not follow the look and feel of the desktop, has too many keys
<AlanBell> it will pop up when you are in an editable field
<AlanBell> it has multiple layouts
<ali1234> multiple layouts are not what is required
<ali1234> please look at the onscreen keyboard of any recent mobile phone and make a copy of that
<AlanBell> "does not automatically appear when needed" fixed now
<ali1234> that is what we actually need
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> can be done in onboard
<popey> also text prediction
<popey> an OSK will need to be _really_ _really_ good to get on any kind of Ubuntu tablet in the future IMHO
<AlanBell> people use that?
<popey> yes
<popey> normal people do
<AlanBell> ok
<ali1234> please do it then, instead of making layouts to duplicate the IBM model M or whatever
<AlanBell> I should observe some normal people one day
<ali1234> a reak OSK is more than just a picture of a keyboard on a screen
<AlanBell> go on
<ali1234> notice that caribou does not have a button for every single key on a real keyboard, for example
<AlanBell> yeah, that annoys me!
<ali1234> also notice that it doesn't try to duplicate the way a keyboard is layed out because it serves no purpose on an OSK
<AlanBell> I went through loads of android keyboards before I found one that could actually type all the keys I wanted to use
<popey> normal people dont switch keyboard
<popey> they use the one supplied
<AlanBell> yeah, that was swype
<popey> and if the one supplied is crap, they buy a different device
<mgdm> I liked SwiftKey until it broke :(
<ali1234> normal people use the one supplied because the one supplied is designed for normal people
<AlanBell> couldn't type @
<AlanBell> others can't do \ or / or ` or |
<ali1234> please, android puts @ on the top level of keys
<AlanBell> swype didn't
<popey> iOS can't do `
<ali1234> i've never used swype, it seems highly counterproductive to use only 1 finger to "type" (or swype)
<AlanBell> I use the android hackers keyboard, it is just a querty layout and you can switch to other layouts and get to anything you want
<AlanBell> it makes sense to me (as does onboard) but I do accept I don't know what normal people are like
<AlanBell> I had no idea that text prediction was anything other than annoyingly useless
<AlanBell> oh that thing that some keyboards do when they pop up a key above the place you are pressing so you can see it when your finger is in the way, that would be good I suppose
<mgdm> text prediction in SwiftKey is reallyg ood, actually
<mgdm> it learns
<AlanBell> I tend to think of onboard as being big enough for that not to be important
<AlanBell> and I don't have a touchscreen
<ali1234> all OSKs do that
<ali1234> (except for onboard)
<ali1234> and caribou which is really more like an IME
<ali1234> oh and windows mobile can't do ~
<AlanBell> I am sure that I could do that finger dodging overlay thing, I will put in a feature request for that
 * jacobw looks for the Â¬ key on his android phone
<AlanBell> I don't know how predictive text could work, but that might be an interesting feature
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/02jWrcfhC83MHfU76V1fRS
<jacobw> see 'dasher'
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/2ymdtuFpgTo7QQgg7sf2jb
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/2K0QBZzIp4ocOG6ZKHuZ5l
<popey> *hugs* :D
<AlanBell> jacobw: yes, I know about dasher, it has some crashes and race conditions in it
<AlanBell> always wanted to fix them but I lack the skills
<jacobw> channel dennis ritchie
<AlanBell> onboard can do odd layouts like that, the default ones pull from the keyboard layout files but buttons can be remapped to other things
<AlanBell> so if you have an azerty keyboard layout then onboard will map the keycaps to what should be on those keys
 * directhe` moos. moo
<ali1234> btw, caribou isn't the gnome default on screen keyboard
<mgdm> directhe`: your ` is showing
<directhe`> mgdm: not nice to draw attention to a guy's shortcomings
<mgdm> sorry :(
<bigcalm> It is rather short
<mgdm> D:
<AlanBell> ali1234: is it GOK? http://www.gok.ca/shots.html
<ali1234> might be, it doesn't look anything like that though
<ali1234> it looks like this: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell-design/plain/mockups/static/onscreen-keyboard.png
<directhe`> http://cv5.coventrytelegraph.net/gokwan.jpg ?
<AlanBell> ali1234: is that real or just a gimped image?
<ali1234> that's a mockup
<ali1234> the real thing looks basically the same though
<ali1234> http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2011/11/16/maliit-the-only-real-on-screen-keyboard/
<ali1234> looks like a serious contender
<AlanBell> yeah, caribou is apparently the new hotness from the gnome side of things (or was last time I asked)
<ali1234> https://wiki.maliit.org/Others
<AlanBell> maliit is interesting certainly
<popey> indeed it is
<AlanBell> onboard is actually shipping
<popey> as it maliit
<popey> *is
<AlanBell> yeah, but not on the precise CD
<ali1234> maliit is actually shipping on real hardware that has no keyboard :)
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<ali1234> can't say the same for ubuntu
<bigcalm> nn
<brobostigon> night bigcalm
<AlanBell> !info maliit
<lubotu3> Package maliit does not exist in oneiric
<ali1234> you wish
<AlanBell> not there
<popey> it doesnt exist then, lets not think about it
<ali1234> lol
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~maliit-team/+archive/daily
<AlanBell> well for people saying why are we bothering with onboard when maliit is so much better, the reason is maliit isn't in the repos
<ali1234> oh look, a PPA!
<popey> thats not a good enough reason
<ali1234> absolutely
<ali1234> especially when it's about 10 years more advanced than anything that actually is in the repos
<AlanBell> so lets get it in the repos and if it is better than onboard we put it on the CD
<ali1234> ok. well, i have no idea how to do that.....
<popey> I do.
<bigcalm> Insider knowledge!
<popey> we ask daviey
<bigcalm> Heh
<jacobw> mkdir maliit, vi maliit/DEBIAN/control .. etc etc
<ali1234> it's already packaged
<jacobw> hmm, then i guess ubuntu just need to accept it ;)
<AlanBell> should go in debian first
<AlanBell> not that onboard is in Debian, but it is nice to have stuff arrive that way
<bigcalm> Aren't there things in Ubuntu that aren't in Debian?
<AlanBell> maliit is c++ :(
<ali1234> oh noes
<bigcalm> mono?
<bigcalm> Erm, ignore me :)
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~maliit-team/maliit/maliit-framework/files/head:/src/
<ali1234> why is this a problem?
<AlanBell> because I am rubbish and scared of languages that let me do stuff that crashes
<mgdm> So you're scared of all programming languages?
<ali1234> but... you like gtk?
<mgdm> Including Logo?
<AlanBell> terrified
<mgdm> ('cos you can crash the turtle into the wall...)
<AlanBell> those turtles with pens!
<mgdm> yes!
<bigcalm> I miss Logo
<AlanBell> I like python
<ali1234> python can crash
<ali1234> happens all the time
<bigcalm> Shhhh, you'll spook him
<AlanBell> yeah, but it doesn't segfault it stops with a nice trace of what happened
<ali1234> except when it deadlocks
<ali1234> or produces a never ending stack trace
<mgdm> and except when it segfaults
<ali1234> or just plain segfaults, yes
<AlanBell> yeah, but you shouldn't be able to do that
<AlanBell> with C that is the normal mode of operation
<ali1234> why not?
<AlanBell> pointer arithmetic is just not something I want to think about
<ali1234> so use C++?
<bigcalm> AlanBell++
<bigcalm> ;)
<ali1234> only crufty old Gtk actually requires you to deal with pointers
<bigcalm> AlanBell: did you not have an 8bit machine in the 80s and code on it?
<AlanBell> yeah, speccy and amiga
<AlanBell> well amiga was 16 bit obviously
<ali1234> maliit is actually written in Qt
<ali1234> it contains absolutely no pointer arithmetic at all
<bigcalm> alt+click+drag should move windows in all OSes
<bigcalm> Oh dear, what will I do when the hud gets here?
<ali1234> threaten to stop using ubuntu forever
<popey> still use alt+click+drag?
<bigcalm> ali1234: too obvious :P
<bigcalm> popey: I know little of the hud other than alt is a problem
<popey> its not finished
<popey> âº
<AlanBell> I am sure it will be sorted out
<bigcalm> :)
<ali1234> maybe we could have two keyboards
<AlanBell> alt+prtscr is going to have to work really, so everything else will
<ali1234> one for unity keyboard shortcuts, and the other for actually doing things
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> openoffice mouse?
<Myrtti> I couldn't even figure out how I'm supposed to use maliit
<bigcalm> I've just told my windows 2008 server to apply updates. I really shouldn't be so worried every time I do this :(
<ali1234> i think everyone is wrong. clearly a piano keyboard is the most efficient way to control a computer
<Myrtti> I had it installed on the tablet but I just never understood how it was supposed to work
<mgdm> popey: haha
<mgdm> popey: I'd forgotten about that
<davmor2> popey: that's not any mouse, that's a might mouse
<AlanBell> ali1234: onboard could do a piano layout
 * mgdm strokes his trackpad
<bigcalm> mgdm: been playing angry birds then?
<AlanBell> oh, also what I want an onscreen keyboard to do is multitouch chording layouts
<mgdm> bigcalm: once or twice :)
<AlanBell> http://plover.stenoknight.com/
<bigcalm> mgdm: it appears to be the most used app on my Xoom
<mgdm> I'm tempted to get a Morse key and hook it up to USB
<mgdm> :-)
<AlanBell> so you could type stenographic chords on it
<mgdm> gordonjcp: you've probably done that, right? :)
<AlanBell> but I think this may be another area where me and normal people have a different idea of what is useful
<AlanBell> I am guessing predictive text is more useful than multitouch chording right?
<ali1234> yes significantly
<ali1234> and not really predictive but some kind of autocorrect
<popey> yes
<ali1234> if it learns then all the better
<AlanBell> maliit doesn't use the system keyboard mappings it seems
<ali1234> of course it doesn't
<popey> the virtual keyboard shouldn't try to look like a physical keyboard
<ali1234> the layout of a full  hardware qwerty keyboard is completely nonsensical for an OSK
<davmor2> AlanBell: I'm pretty sure I saw a piano keyboard for gnome touch being demoed somewhere
<popey> a physical keyboard is designed for 10 fingers always sat on it (optimally)
<popey> most OSKs should work optimally for one or at most two digits
<ali1234> one or two thumbs usually
<AlanBell> yeah, I figured on a tablet you could touch type
<ali1234> depending if it is being held landscape or portrait
<AlanBell> does maliit use at-spi to find out if you are in an editable field do you know?
<ali1234> no idea
<popey> dunno how it does it
<ali1234> i was looking for pointer arithmetic
<AlanBell> and how do you drag it around or does it stay anchored to the screen I wonder
<AlanBell> actually I could install it rather than reading about it couldn't I
<popey> there's 3 ppas
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~maliit-team
<popey> also there is #maliit âº
<popey> and they're very friendly and active
<ali1234> there is code for prediction and autocorrect in here
<popey> it is after all a framework upon which other keyboards are built
<ali1234> given that it is designed for a real commercial product that received favourable reviews i expect it works fairly well
<popey> it was used on the Nokia N9 and N950 AIUI
<ali1234> exactly
<popey> its also the base of Swiftkey
<popey> http://www.swiftkey.net/
<mgdm> interesting
<mgdm> it's nice
<ali1234> "social AI keyboard"
<ali1234> does that mean it will turn everything i type into "lol wat u sayin"
<popey> nah, it automatically puts everything you type into twitter
<mgdm> you can hook it up to your FB and your Twitter and it can learn from your typing style
<popey> i see they put a release out a week ago
<AlanBell> as it is qt it could in theory be stuffed into the unity2d frame thing that is like the nux layer on unity3d
<popey> nice and active
<mgdm> there's a mode where you can set it so that space will always insert a word, which can type reasonably coherent sentences, actually
<ali1234>      
<popey> sausages
<popey> that works then
<mgdm> though if all you say is 'lol wtf bbq wat u up 2' then that's what it will type
<ali1234> i like _ -> i like swiftkey
<ali1234> this is like the google bubble except a million times worse
<AlanBell> yay, I crashed maliit
<jacobw> it lowers the quality of all your typing to your hastily written facebook updates
<ali1234> because it is a filter on the output instead of a filter on the input
<popey> file a bug :p
<AlanBell> oh, no I didn't, just got it in a funny popup mode to select some alternate keys
<AlanBell> doesn't appear to work as an independent on-screen keyboard though
<ali1234> of course it doesn't
<ali1234> nobody actually wants that
<popey> it can work as a transparent overlay on top of the desktop
<popey> which is nice
<AlanBell> maliit-keyboard-viewer is an application with a text field and keyboard under it, so you type stuff into that text field then what, copy and paste to somewhere else?
<ali1234> s/nice/what it should actually do/
<popey> well, yes âº
<AlanBell> how do I put it into direct input mode?
<ali1234> AlanBell: you write a plugin that causes it to appear whenever the user clicks in a text field and then automatically send the input back to the text field
<AlanBell> whut
<ali1234> you know, like every OSK ever
<popey> or you re-use an existing one
<ali1234> yes
<AlanBell> ok, so is there one of those?
<ali1234> for meego? yes
<AlanBell> so it doesn't work
<ali1234> i don't know
 * popey checks his other machine that has maliit on
<ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~maliit-team/maliit/maliit-framework/view/head:/src/minputmethodhost.h
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/maliit.png
<ali1234> keyboard viewer is a demo tool
<ali1234> maliit is only the keyboard part
<popey> maliit-server -unconditional-show -bypass-wm-hint
<popey> try that
<AlanBell> nothing
<gord> removed the last vga cable still in use in my house, end of an era really
<jacobw> ok, i've sent emails to 20 advertisers on gumtree, one has to respond :|
<popey> jacobw: what you buying?
<jacobw> looking for a new room
<jacobw> flatshare even
<daftykins> i'm getting on the property selling bandwagon soon
<daftykins> fixing up my place down here in Portsmouth ahead of getting rid :)
<popey> daftykins: moving back to jersey?
<daftykins> i'd been living with my oldies back on Guernsey since i graduated in '08, but getting kicked out now so i'm kind of a free agent :D
<daftykins> used to rent this place out but it's a lot more hassle than i want now
<AlanBell> popey: ok, it works now, kind of
<popey> screenshot?
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/glitchymaliit.png
<ali1234> gnome-control-center = segfault land, lol
<gord> is segfault land like disney land?
<ali1234> yes except less abhorrent
<AlanBell> it doesn't clean up the massive orange fingerdodge squares
<AlanBell> when they fall outside the maliit window
<popey> pretty
 * popey points AlanBell at #maliit
<AlanBell> I can kind of see the point about an on-screen keyboard like that, simplified until it hurts
<popey> you're thinking of different use case tho aren't you?
<ali1234> the point?
<popey> you're thinking of 'replace the keyboard' use case
<popey> not the 'type text messages into a device' use case
<ali1234> it's not about use cases
<AlanBell> I thought the keys not being all square and not offset like a proper keyboard in caribou was it being hopelessly primitive
<AlanBell> well it is kind of about use-cases
<AlanBell> it is *desireable* to have a primitive keyboard
<popey> from an a11y pov you want ` and @ and stuff
<AlanBell> orca isn't
<popey> but from a tablet use case you often don't
<ali1234> the use case you are trying to solve is artificial
<ali1234> if people wanted a full keyboard they would plug one in
<ali1234> the only time i ever use ` is when writing shell scripts
<AlanBell> also orca does a load of mouse stuff
<ali1234> i thought orca wasa screen reader?
<AlanBell> sorry
<AlanBell> onboard
<AlanBell> onboard now has hover mouse stuff built in, which is granted a bit of an odd place for it, but there it is
<gord> if oyu are following an internet guide, ` can be quite useful
<ali1234> onboard solves the problem "i have a full desktop PC running a traditional desktop OS and for some reason I have unplugged the keyboard but i still want to use the computer fully"
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> which is a problem that almost nobody ever has
<AlanBell> I can see the point of this other type of keyboard
<bigcalm> o2 Joggler. Plug in a USB kb to get things running, on screen keyboard after that
<AlanBell> on my phone I am annoyed that the keyboards are not as good as onboard, I would *love* onboard for android
<ali1234> onboard wouldn't even fit on the screen
<ali1234> it would have scrollbars
<AlanBell> it would fit, the buttons would be small
<ali1234> then it would be unusable
<AlanBell> maliit doesn't seem to rescale at all
<AlanBell> https://market.android.com/details?id=org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard&hl=en that is what I use
<AlanBell> I don't like primitive keyboards, but I do accept that most people would do
<ali1234> that might work on a tablet
<ali1234> no way you could press those button in portrait mode on a galaxy s
<ali1234> not without a capacitive stylus anyway
<AlanBell> yes I can
<AlanBell> using it now on a galaxy S2
<AlanBell> irssi in byobu and a full 5 row keyboard
<popey> and AlanBell has surprisingly fat thumbs
<AlanBell> and back to the laptop
<popey> there's so many android OSKs
<popey> shame we cant easliy use/port them
<AlanBell> I do normally use the 4 row layout in portrait mode but that was with the full 5 row one
<AlanBell> I guess they are java things compiled the dalvik way
<AlanBell> could they run under openjdk?
<popey> eww
<ali1234> hell no
<popey> not sure I'd want jdk on a tablet under arm
<ali1234> they should work in this though: http://openmobile.co/products.php
<popey> interesting product
<AlanBell> so what is that? a dalvik runtime?
<AlanBell> why not have openjdk on arm? or at least the JRE part of it?
<popey> is it dead?
<popey> no blog updates for ages
<ali1234> dead? it's a commercial product
<AlanBell> which is no insulation against deadness
<ali1234> it's not dead.
<ali1234> try the news page instead of the blog
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-16
<popey> "Develop Android Apps, Deploy on Meego, Tizen, WebOS, Ubuntu and More"
<AlanBell> somehow that doesn't look very appealing to me
<AlanBell> a proprietary layer of stuff that mostly behaves like android probably
<ali1234> github is down :C
<ali1234> come on github, you can do it
<AlanBell> but it has a nice error 500 page
<AlanBell> right, I am off to bed, it has been a fascinating evening, in which I discovered I was slightly odder than I thought I was
<popey> lol
<Azelphur> derp, I left the door open on my bedroom
<Azelphur> 37C in here (My rooms next to the bitcoin room)
<hamitron> damn mna
<hamitron> man
<hamitron> hah
<hamitron> 19 C in here
<Azelphur> xD
<hamitron> with my bitcoin rig
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> getting stuffy now
<ali1234> 27 C with the window open
<hamitron> you guys still got the heating on or something?
<hamitron> I suppose your comp uses about the same power as 2 of mine Azelphur
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> not including the 16 monitors
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I am actually starting to get frustrated with a single 17" LCD screen
<hamitron> 5:4 ratio is the only good thing about it
<n1md4_> BigRedS: Are you about?
<directhe`> yay, Double Fine Adventure will be getting a Linux port.
<daftykins> :D
<directhe`> i guess with $1.8m pledged so far, it'd be rude not to
<directhe`> clearly the backing rate has slowed down a lot. i wonder if it'll hit $3m before funding ends
<directhe`> "Pledge $15 or more
<directhe`> 28829 Backers
<directhe`> The finished game in all of its awesome glory DRM free on PC, Mac, and Linux, or via Steam for PC and Mac, exclusive access to the Beta on Steam, access to the video series, and access the private discussion community."
<Azelphur> I dunno why steam don't get on with Linux, they must be aware that they are loosing money, with all these bundles going on
<ali1234> because steam is mostly old games that don't have linux ports?
<Azelphur> that didn't stop them from a mac port
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Chris Oattes] Ambilight clone  Software - http://www.cjo20.net/blog/?p=73
<Seeker`> \o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Update - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/16/ubuntu-accomplishments-update/
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> apt-get morning all
<christel> morning :)
<daubers> Morning
<dwatkins> apt-get coffee
<daubers> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
<czajkowski> herrro
 * daubers reflashes a stupid thing to make it less stupid
<daubers> also o/ czajkowski
<daubers> How's the new job?
<czajkowski> it's good
<czajkowski> in wolverhampton  this week
<daubers> Cool
 * bigcalm makes an entrance
<bigcalm> I'd better make an exit as well otherwise I'll be stuck here all day
 * BigRedS groans
<bigcalm> BigRedS: tummy ache?
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<funkyHat> Morning
<BigRedS> bigcalm: coincidentally, slightly. But more your, uh, 'humour' :)
<bigcalm> :P
<DGJones> Grr, stupid router rebooting & giving out a new ip address to the server, can't connect to irssi
<oimon> is archive.canonical.com incredibly slow for everyone? try to wget http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/adobe-flashplugin_11.1.102.62.orig.tar.gz
<BigRedS> oimon: yeah, it's not moving for me
<oimon> BigRedS: trying to do updates and it's killing me
<oimon> spend 15 mins trying to download it
<AlanBell> I am spending the day making an application I wrote some years ago worse
<BigRedS> I love it when I get to do that
<AlanBell> had a meeting yesterday when they listed all the stuff that they wanted to rip out
<BigRedS> Oh, normally mine is very hurried feature-creep
<AlanBell> and the percentage scale that they want to re-map so that it goes up to 125% because the numbers they were getting didn't look high enough
<AlanBell> I feel like dilbert
<BigRedS> haha!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: fun days!
<andyloughran> heya
<andyloughran> howdy
<andyloughran> the connection here is terrible... spitfire internets
<andyloughran> anyone got any recommendations for wireless internet (microwave/radio) in Fitzrovia?
<funkyHat> DGJones: server without a static addess? :(
<DGJones> funkyHat, Yeah, something I need to get sorted
<czajkowski> went to go use skype
<czajkowski> and it was uninstalled
<czajkowski> hate when that happens
<bigcalm> Skype is packaged for 12.04 now then?
<czajkowski> well it was there yesterday till my macgic upgrade which cuased some disaperances
<bigcalm> :(
<DGJones> funkyHat, It runs a desktop because it sometimes gets used for a quick bit of web browsing & that won't set a fixed ip for some reason, I may change it & put a server install on with no gui, that'll be easier
<funkyHat> DGJones: or see if your router allows you to define permanent leases?
<DGJones> funkyHat, Never been able to get that to work
<popey> you can do it in network manager
<popey> or edit /etc/network/interfaces
<andyloughran> czajkowski: where you working at these days?
<popey> \o/
<czajkowski> andyloughran: Canonical :)
<andyloughran> :D
<andyloughran> and how's the lovely Wolverhampton treating you?
<czajkowski> yeah not bad
<czajkowski> if I could understand the accents would be great :)
 * bigcalm chuckles
<bigcalm> Your tweet this morning made me smile
<andyloughran> I could do a decent attempt at translating
<andyloughran> oright duk, ows yam doin
<andyloughran> that means, hello dear, how are you?
<DJones> \o/ Sorted, was nothing to do with my server, *%$^*(()& dyndns dropping the forwarding
<DJones> popey: Who did you switch to when dyndns did that to you?
<popey> mooo.com
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<popey> hmm?
<popey> (that was an answer for DJones btw)
<DJones> I guessed :)
 * Myrtti has found Settlers Online. Doom impending. Productivity plummeting to even lower
<AlanBell> how are the wolves people getting on with the czajkowski accent?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: not bad, ordered my food last night and went to sleep
<czajkowski> and got to and from places without getting too lost
<AlanBell> perhaps they have been preparing for your arrival with this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc0u7peZbIk
<AlanBell> we should do one of those for stuff Ubuntu people say
<czajkowski> spring cleaning lp Q&A
<czajkowski> found another one for Ubuntu and not LP if folks want to help https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/187785
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
 * bigcalm steams up his glasses with a pot noodle
<bigcalm> Mmmmm
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/187778
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
 * bigcalm glares at his windows server
<bigcalm> It's been 'applying updates' to office for some time now
<bigcalm> Silly thing
<brobostigon> running office on a server, why ?
<popey> archive.canonical.com is having an issue bigcalm
<bigcalm> popey: ms office
<popey> oh âº
<bigcalm> I doubt that the two are linked ;)
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> It's feature freeze today, yes?
<christel> i dunno, i could see how it was having issues if you went and installed office on it
<popey> czajkowski: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/187785 google for the laptop model, well known problem
<popey> i linked that question to a bug report
<czajkowski> popey: cheers
 * czajkowski tickles christel hows you darling 
<christel> not too bad!
<bigcalm> How's the table?
<christel> i LOVE the table :D
<bigcalm> :D
<ikonia> the table loves you
<bigcalm> I think it's a bit of a wooden relationship
<christel> i don't think i've ever spent as much time stroking hard wood as i have since it arrived
<christel> :)
<ikonia> bravo
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<davmor2> mrevell, czajkowski: I should be on for tonight and coming to the hotel for a bit tomorrow fingers crossed got the bulk of the release done
<bigcalm> davmor2: case the joint for pens you can half-inch
<davmor2> bigcalm: it might be worth thinking about for a co-working space if we can get the price right
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's what I was thinking. Price is everything though
<bigcalm> It'll be coming out of my own pocket, not work's
<davmor2> czajkowski: you heading back to the hotel once you have knocked off tonight, if so I can probably give you a lift back
<czajkowski> cool thanks
<christel> bigcalm: are you buying a table?
<bigcalm> christel: no, we already have one
<christel> aw what are you buying
<bigcalm> <davmor2> bigcalm: it might be worth thinking about for a co-working space if we can get the price right
<czajkowski> bigcalm: davmor2 this place is very nice
<czajkowski> and not cold
<christel> ooh the place
<christel> i see
<bigcalm> I am always trying to buy my soul back off of the devil
<bigcalm> czajkowski: not cold is a goooooood thing
<bigcalm> Though I think mrevell complained the most :P
<oimon> can anyone help with unity? a showstopper is the buttons appearing in top left hand corner when windows are maximised. can i move them to the application instead? (i have already moved global menu to the application, but can't move the buttons)
<AlanBell> you are not supposed to want to do that oimon
<bigcalm> Haha
<AlanBell> anyhow, that isn't a terrible place for them, at least they do follow the applications when not maximised
<oimon> my buttons are on the right, so it's kind of essential
<bigcalm> Stop doing what you want with your OS OS
<oimon> if i can't do it, it's a deal breaker :(
<AlanBell> welcome to the phrase "broken by design"
<oimon> there must be an ugly fudge around it ?
<AlanBell> although in this specific instance I don't quite see the problem
<AlanBell> you want them shifted right 48px so they line up with the application rather than the launcher?
<oimon> AlanBell: i want them shifted onto the app window . my buttons are on the right
<oimon> so it's about a 1900 pixel shift
<AlanBell> oh, buttons on the right, I see
<AlanBell> you are not supposed to want to do that oimon
<davmor2> bigcalm: well Matt is smaller so maybe he gets colder quicker :)
 * bigcalm rolls his eyes
<bigcalm> Heh
<oimon> but there must be a hack or app to uninstall that would fix it?
<oimon> maybe gord knows
<gord> wut
<gord> no way that i know of
 * oimon cries
<AlanBell> oimon: I think it is a "patches welcome" thing
<AlanBell> which does actually mean that a patch would be welcome
<oimon> my current workaround is 10.04
<AlanBell> but I doubt anyone tasked with working on unity would do that patch because it isn't on john lea's magic design sheets
<AlanBell> anyone seen onboard today?
<mrevell> bigcalm, davmor2: I grew up in the north east. I can handle cold when doing north eastern things: going to night clubs in a t-shirt in December, drinking broon ale in a t-shirt in December, and other activities in a t-shirt in December. Sitting at a laptop, though, in a cold room doesn't work for me.
<AlanBell> oimon: https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg07858.html not specifically about button positions, but an interesting read
<gordonjcp> mrevell: that's because you're less physically active sitting at a laptop, and therefore not burning off energy which keeps you warm
 * bigcalm hugs mrevell 
<oimon> AlanBell: thanks, i'll read it. this guy wants the same thing http://askubuntu.com/questions/94105/can-i-remove-the-buttons-min-max-close-from-the-unity-panel-and-put-them-bac
<AlanBell> sit at a laptop drinking broon ale
<gordonjcp> mrevell: if you were sitting at a laptop in a cold room drinking newkie broon and dancing it would be a different story
<mrevell> heh
 * gordonjcp is currently sitting in a fairly cold loading bay, taking a break from working in a ridiculously overheated workshop
<gordonjcp> I'm also calibrating stuff that's going to live in an unheated high site so there's no point checking it at 25C when it's going to be sitting at 5C most of the time
<bigcalm> Another web dev company has the same phone number as us except for the last digit. This is confusing for people who dial the wrong number
<bigcalm> I wonder if we've lost any business to the other company
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: heh
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: my sister used to have a telephone number one digit different from a local cinema
<gordonjcp> quite often getting folk phoning up, "Oh hi, what have you got on tonight?"
<bigcalm> Cute
<gordonjcp> "Well my brother's just come round so we're going off to the pub for a couple of pints, then we're going to get a curry, then head home and watch the West Wing and play on the playstation.  How about you?"
<andyloughran> I'm loving 'management'
<bigcalm> Is that where everybody else works so you don't have to?
<daubers> bigcalm: thats "deligation"
<gord> i see managers as the people who sit in meetings so i can actually get some coding done
<popey> \o/
 * popey chuckles at "deal breaker" and "showstopper"
<daubers> gord: That's what I see as my job these days :(
<BigRedS> ls
<bigcalm> Permission Denied
<popey> .
<popey> ..
<BigRedS> sudo ls
<popey> goat_porn
<daubers> blackmail_footage
<bigcalm> My goodness I'm tired
<bigcalm> mrevell: davmor2: czajkowski: is tonight a bring your own booze place and does anybody intend to have a drink anyway?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't know and don't drink so I won't
<czajkowski> bigcalm: no idea
<bigcalm> czajkowski: would you like some cider?
<bigcalm> I'm about to go to Waitrose for a birthday card
<popey> get him with his expensive taste in birthday cards
<davmor2> bigcalm: look on the website to see if they are licensed
<czajkowski> bigcalm: I'm prolly ok tb
<czajkowski> *tbh
<bigcalm> czajkowski: fair do
<bigcalm> davmor2: looking at it now
<bigcalm> popey: local town has a Waitrose and a Co-op... Not a lot of choice there
<popey> co-op ftw
<popey> you in wolves?
<bigcalm> They are licenced
<davmor2> popey: no he is out in the sticks of telford but not too far away
<bigcalm> popey: I'm near Newport, Shropshire
<bigcalm> From their wine list: Dom Perignon Brut, 1998
<bigcalm>  
<bigcalm>  
<bigcalm>  
<bigcalm>             Bottle Â£139.95
<bigcalm> Oops
<davmor2> bigcalm: at that price you'll be ordering a couple of bottles then right?
<bigcalm> At least!
 * bigcalm waddles off for lunch
<diplo> Any of you guys use Nagios ?
<BigRedS> yeah
<diplo> use check_by_ssh at all ?
<BigRedS> not knowingly, does that ssh in and ask questions?
<diplo> ssh in and run commands
<diplo> so check_by_ssh -H IP -p port -C uptime
<BigRedS> ah yeah, no
<BigRedS> we use mon for that sort of thing
<diplo>  12:43:07 up 91 days,  5:14,  2 users,  load average: 1.44, 1.13, 1.04
<diplo> Works from my home box
<diplo> Remote command execution failed: reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo for 78-33-75-73.static.enta.net failed - POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT!
<diplo> From my work box
<diplo> :(
<BigRedS> where are you going to?
<diplo> Running same v of check_by_ssh
<diplo> A customer site running centos
<BigRedS> that looks like you're behund nat and trying to ssh to what is your public, natted, ip address
<diplo> So i think it's  a ssh related config issue on my work box
<BigRedS> I think you can turn that off in ssh
<diplo> yeah, been trying stuff and failing
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Hopeing someone else has seen it and goes 'Oh yeah' :)
<BigRedS> I presume you can't just ssh in either?
<diplo> I can just ssh
<diplo> Still get that alert up though
<diplo> So key pairs set up
<diplo> I'm thinking it's the warning that's causing me the issues
<diplo> ( I hope it is )
<BigRedS> hm, odd. Ah, so when you ssh you still get the warning
<BigRedS> yeah, that would because it'd break key auth
<daubers> AlanBell: I found out an accessibility thing I didn't know about the other day
<daubers> didn't realise some people reverse the mouse buttons for RSI reasons
<diplo> daubers, we had to do that for left handers as well
<diplo> Was a horrible work around in terminal services :)
<daubers> I knew about left handers, just didn't realise there was other reasons for it :)
<diplo> lol fixed it BigRedS
<diplo> -q = Quiet, suppresses errors :(
<diplo> Why didn't i try that an hour ago!
<AlanBell> daubers: you can use a mouse without clicking at all
<BigRedS> diplo: aha!
<daubers> AlanBell: By shouting at it?
 * daubers has images of an office full of people shouting "MIDDLE CLICK" "SCROLL" "LEFT CLICK"
<popey> "Computer!"
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5e1vfaST2I
<popey> bah, german
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hShY6xZWVGE&feature=related
<daubers> \o/ Scotty
<AlanBell> daubers: dwell click
<AlanBell> onboard kind of includes it, might do a screencast of the new onboard at some point soon
<daubers> \o/
<AlanBell> onboard in the host lets me type  into a virtualbox guest which is nice
<dogmatic69> how can i delete files in a dir with thousands of files? rm ./* says list to long
<popey> delete the directory instead?
<dogmatic69> ah, obviously
<diplo> Or a perl script
<diplo> I had to do that for a CCTV server which had thousands of images a day
<diplo> rm/ls etc couldn't handle it
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> ls was working, rm not
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: find /dir -exec rm {} \;
<davmor2> popey: I think you'll find that is spelt "Compuuutar!"
<BigRedS> actually, I think find as a -delete
<diplo> It does, but i used to have issues with find as well with that many files
<BigRedS> well, it runs away with all your I/O and sits there chewing it, but it gets there in the end
<BigRedS> I regularly do that to stupid web developers who put session files in wrong places
<diplo> yeah, wasn't great for me.. think find took minutes and perl was in seconds
<BigRedS> Ah, I'd not even considered writing anything else
<BigRedS> just an unlink in a readdir loop?
<diplo> Yep
<diplo> :)
<BigRedS> Hm. If I'm feeling particularly nice i'll do that next time
<BigRedS> else they can bloody well lose all I/O for half an hour as punishment :)
<diplo> heh
<diplo> I must chuck all these scripts into my github or something
<BigRedS> I keep meaning to do that
<BigRedS> and then I tidy them up
<BigRedS> and then they stop working
<diplo> May be useful to someone at some point.. probably not great scripts but they work for me
<BigRedS> and so I give up for a bit
<diplo> lol
<BigRedS> yeah, last commit was 7 months ago
<BigRedS> https://github.com/BigRedS/avi-utils
<diplo> Probably when i set mine up, never commited to it yet
<BigRedS> Anyone got a handy grub1 to grub2 dictionary?
<bigcalm> davmor2: Chinese!
<davmor2> bigcalm: What?
 * bigcalm taps his nose
<davmor2> bigcalm: Your nose is Chinese......are you taking your tablet's?
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Imp
<shauno> ugh.  don't get me started on grub2
<AlanBell> anyone know how to generate a signed PDF file from libreoffice or something?
<gord> davmor2, whats that funkyness to get oneiric paid apps in the precice software centre?
<gord> davmor2, also hello ;)
<davmor2> gord: don't do it payments is broken in USC on precise currently should be fixed by the end of the day-ish-maybe-if-we-are-lucky
<gord> davmor2, right, not for buying stuff, dev stuff
<davmor2> gord: export SOFTWARE_CENTER_DISTRO_CODENAME='oneiric'
<gord> davmor2, ta very much :)
<davmor2> gord: no worries and hello
<bigcalm> Bit warm in here
<bigcalm> And the heating isn't on
<bigcalm> Is Spring approaching us?
 * popey wonders if AlanBell will set this up in his garden.. http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/02/headless-chicken-solution/
<bigcalm> Creepy
<bigcalm> More ethical than battery hens
<AlanBell> gosh
<shauno> "the removal of suffering" is an interesting line.  buddhist chickens?
 * bigcalm wonders if he'll have chicken tonight or not
<bigcalm> Is it worth making my Xoom think it's running the US image so that it'll update to ICS
<bigcalm> What will I lose from the UK version?
<simondbull> that article has scared me enough to put me off going to KFC tonight.....
<diplo> bigcalm, not just custom mod it ?
<bigcalm> diplo: I'm trying to be good with this device
<diplo> :p
<bigcalm> diplo: it actually works ok for me so far. But I do want ICS
<bigcalm> Is ICS out for the SGS2 as an OTA update yet?
<diplo> Not afaik
<popey> http://makeplaylive.com/
<popey> pre-orders for kde spark thing
<diplo> heh, just saw that myself
<diplo> Follow Bryan as well ?
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> popey: that looks nice
<bigcalm> mrevell: did you manage to put CM on your phone?
<mrevell> bigcalm, erm
<mrevell> no
<mrevell> Didn't get a sufficiently round tuit.
<bigcalm> All tablets appear to have HDMI outputs. Anybody here hook their tablet up to a monitor or TV?
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<popey> bigcalm: i have
<popey> transformer can run an external screen at 1080p
<bigcalm> I should run out and get a small hdmi connector cable to play with
<bigcalm> Not sure when I would ever use it though
<bigcalm> Maybe if I were presenting
<directhex> i have a mini hdmi cable. for hooking my camera up to the tv!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: now you can watch your home-made uhm.. "nature documentaries" on a big screen!
<directhex> MartijnVdS, in 3d!
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<popey> bigcalm: i bought a couple of hdmi cables and the converters for cheap from amazon
<bigcalm> I like my HDMI to DVI cables
<gord> amazon basic do some nice hdmi cables
 * bigcalm hungry
<bigcalm> Can I hold out for another 3 hours?
<czajkowski> and home
<bigcalm> czajkowski: hope you're hungry :)
<bigcalm> I've just cooked tea for Hayley
 * bigcalm can smell it and it's making my tummy grumble
<czajkowski> heh
<bigcalm> Will be setting off in 25 mins to find me a Mr Revell
<czajkowski> cool
<czajkowski> only in the door myself about 10 mins
<agk0> ..
<CTtechguy>  ...
 * GnomeVersionOfXc hatNoUseNickSettings
<GnomeVersionOfXc> pos
<dwatkins> o.O
<daftykins> O_O
<dwatkins> quite
<Azelphur> O.o
<daftykins> Sir Patrick Moore O_.
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<Azelphur> I'm so mad right now I could flip a table, (â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»)Â 
<MartijnVdS> (â¯Â°â¡Â°)â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
 * MartijnVdS has aliases for both
<MartijnVdS> also, coloured version of
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> *\o/* *\o/* *\o/* *\o/*
<MartijnVdS> but that doesn't work in this channel
<popey> evening
<jacobw> evening
<jacobw> Azelphur: tables are people too, don't flip them :(
<Azelphur> Oh god, I had no idea tables where sentient beings, I've been so mean :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: they only hunt at night
<Azelphur> hehe
<dwatkins> It's times like this that I wish I had xchat...
<CTtechguy> dwatkins: what do you use for a chat client?
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/February/2012-02-08-030714_3840x1200_scrot.png
<Azelphur> IRC I'm doing it right? :D
<dwatkins> CTtechguy: irssi
<AlanBell> all about the Unity design process http://design.canonical.com/2012/02/the-unity-design-process-and-how-you-can-play-a-part-in-it/
<jacobw> wrong
<ubuntubhoy> it has 'design' ??
<AlanBell> curiously substance abuse does not appear to be a major part of it
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: it has lots of design
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: employment by Canonical?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: does it require that?
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: like we have lots of weather
<jacobw> The third sentence should be in bold
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell, more accident than design I think
<AlanBell> nope, it is all carefully designed
<ubuntubhoy> even bad design would not come up with some of it
<jacobw> 'design' is a magic word
<CTtechguy> dwatkins: I tried that and weechatt for abit but went back to xchat
<ali1234> the main problem with unity design as i see it is that lots of small parts are being designed with no consideration for how they interact with each other
<AlanBell> yeah, there is this "every pixel matters" thing
<ali1234> so you've got lots of small things that are individually defensible for the people who designed them
<AlanBell> and sometimes the problems are bigger than pixels
<MartijnVdS> â« Every pixel's sacred
<ali1234> but when you try to use them all together they just make no sense
<AlanBell> if a pixel is wasted, sabdfl gets most irate
<AlanBell> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/design/ is interesting
<ali1234> it doesn't help that any time someone makes an argument for why something is bad they get inundated with "you hate change", "you are not a normal user" and "use something else if you don't like it"
<ali1234> you basically have to be extremely stubborn to take any part in such discussions
<AlanBell> there are some wacky priorities on things
<ali1234> man, priorities
<AlanBell> there are bugs like this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/863240 where a font is the wrong weight, but it is no issue that font resizing just plain doesn't work
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 863240 in Ayatana Design "Dash - the "Filter results" text is the wrong size, wrong font weight, and aligned incorrectly in both the vertical and horizontal axis" [Critical,Fix committed]
<daftykins> 0o
<ali1234> what do you mean by "font resizing doesn't work"?
<ali1234> it seems to work for me, as long as i'm not using xfce or kde
<AlanBell> ooh, it has started to work a bit
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: font size is in Ãngstrom :p
<ali1234> a much better example of priorities is that the sound control applet has been totally redesigned four times since the introduction of pulse audio, but pulse audio itself still doesn't work properly
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: PA works fine
<popey> does it work properly in other distros?
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> does that make it ok?
<popey> there's lots broken in the linux desktop, pa is just one bit
<ali1234> there sure is
<ali1234> that is just one example
<popey> It's not our remit to fix every upstream package. Never has been.
<AlanBell> well thats cool, only a bit of oddness remains with the font resizing
<gord> there should be a kickstarter type thing, but for fixing bugs
<MartijnVdS> gord: they tried bug bounties, didn't help
<hcfd> Hey guys, I want to move my current Ubuntu installation to a new drive and boot from it instead. Currently on mdadm software RAID1 and moving to a single SSD - both filesystems ext4. If I mount the new partition, can I just use cp -R -p /* to move things over, do the fstab and GRUB thing and then I'm good? Or.. do I need to boot a liveCD so that / is unmounted first?
<daftykins> why exactly does ubuntu hold onto pulse audio? i only ever hear it in conversations where it's causing trouble
<gord> MartijnVdS, one failed attempt != flawed premise
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: because it works for most people
<daftykins> mmm true
<popey> it generally works
<gord> alsa isn't that great, its missing a bunch of features of pusle that i would very much miss
<daftykins> hcfd: it would probably be quicker from an outside environment
<ali1234> the stated reason for using pulseaudio is that it is the only system that supports bluetooth/usb headsets
<ali1234> but this is also the area that has the most problems
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: so fix the bugs or write a better system
<MartijnVdS> Also, pulse can mix my audio streams and give my per-stream volume control
<MartijnVdS> which WORKS
<hcfd> daftykins, true, but will this work? I mean if I boot a CD I'm not certain that my RAID array for / will come up properly (though likely it will)
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: you've just committed the logical fallacy i was talking about before
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: being?
<ali1234> that i should "fix it myself"
<hcfd> daftykins, I'd rather avoid the downtime, even if this method I'm using takes longer.
<daftykins> hcfd: fair point, well give it a go? all you'll lose is time :)
<daftykins> oic
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Anything more constructive than whining would do really
<hcfd> daftykins, well, CPU and I/O time.. not *my* time -- which is what I'm trying to save ;)
<daftykins> =]
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: whining is exactly what you are doing
<MartijnVdS> "It's bad", sure. But what part is bad? How could it be fixed?
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: go search launchpad for pulse audio bugs, there are plenty
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: so are X bugs and Firefox bugs
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: do you propose to drop those?
<hcfd> daftykins, sure I'll do it and find out. If it flops, I can use the LiveCD method instead :)
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: i don't propose dropping pulse audio
<daftykins> hcfd: sounds good :) let me know how you get on
<hcfd> daftykins, will do. :)
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: i propose fixing the base system before rewriting the control panel applet for the fourth time
<ali1234> it's never going to work properly no matter how much you redisng the applet, because the core is broken
<hcfd> Lots of permissions are failing re: preserving them, but I don't think that's a big deal.. mostly stuff in /dev so far
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I don't experience brokenness at all. Maybe it's a subset of people experiencing with exotic hard/software that has problems?
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: is a usb microphone exotic hardware? it can't be all that exotic if the existence of such devices was a major factor in choosing pulse audio in the first place
<popey> my usb mic works
<MartijnVdS> so does mine
<ali1234> mine works
<daubers> as does mine...
<ali1234> until i reboot
<popey> all 3 in fact
<ali1234> then it stops working
<MartijnVdS> hardware problem
<ali1234> it isnt a hardware problem, it is a design flaw in pulse audio
<ali1234> it cannot remember devices
<popey> pulse audio is upstream
<popey> tell lennart
<jacobw> lennart /o\
<ali1234> the best part is even if you disable all sound devices it still won't automatically select the microphone when you plug it in
<ali1234> you just get nothing
<hcfd> I have issues with Ubuntu 10.04LTS and Pulse... it doesn't detect the correct channels for my Envy24 / ICE1712 chip, but there's a manual fix. A pain in the ass, but, well, it works.
<ali1234> this isn't even a bug, it is a design flaw
<ali1234> all the bugs in pa have been fixed by now
<hcfd> All the bugs, or just the reported ones?
<hcfd> :p
<ali1234> well there is always new hardware coming out
<ali1234> 10.04 is really old, back then PA was buggy as hell
<ali1234> LTS doesn't get fixes except for security bugs and serious crashes
<hcfd> Aye
<ali1234> i don't have a problem with that
<hcfd> I'll probably move to 12.04LTS at the right time
<hcfd> Thing is, *my* hardware is old, and extremely common and popular amongst audiophiles.
<daftykins> that'll be why i have so much trouble with PA on my HTPC then :D
<ali1234> most of these problems are actually problems in the ALSA drivers and not PA itself
<daftykins> like, an unclean shutdown caused it to stop stereo analog audio working in XBMC until i fiddled with it
<hcfd> Basically, the digital audio works perfectly on it, out of the box, but the analogue audio is totally broken until one manually fixes it
<MartijnVdS> hcfd: audiophiles? you mean those people who buy golden cables on special risers, at Â£100/meter, for the "better acoustic quality"?
<hcfd> MartijnVdS, no, not those muppets.
<daftykins> just those that care about quality :)
<MartijnVdS> ;)
 * daftykins rubs FLAC
<hcfd> Snakeoil consumers aplenty, that's for sure!
<popey> denonlink âº
<ali1234> it's no coincidence that network manager suffers from similar design flaws with plaggable hardware
<ali1234> and btw, the reason i single out ubuntu for this criticism is because ubuntu developers constantly criticise upstream projects for telling users to "fix it themselves" citing the "ubuntu is for everyone" ideal
<ali1234> but then they use the same excuses
<ali1234> i find this to be extremely hypocritical
<hcfd> Superuser cannot access ~/.gvfs folder when mounted ... damnit! daftykins, looks like I need to do this via LiveCD!
<hcfd> Bad bad bad .gvfs not conforming to spec! Root should be able to stat every inode ffs
<ali1234> .gvfs is a different filesystem
<ali1234> oh yeah, root can't look in to user's gvfs at all
<daftykins> hcfd: doh!
<daftykins> silly thing
<hcfd> ali1234, oh okay, that explains. I see many people are having trouble doing backups and the like because of this
<hcfd> It is down as a bug though
<ali1234> what are you trying to do anyway?
<popey> You want to copy from one disk to another?
<popey> I'd use a live usb...
<popey> well, I did this week
<hcfd> Move my installation on / to another disk (new SSD - OCZ Agility 3.. wooo!)
<popey> gparted, copy/paste
<ali1234> just reinstall
<daftykins> :D
<hcfd> Can't reinstall... / contains my /home and everything else
<hcfd> Lots of system settings customised, etc
<ali1234> of course you can
<hcfd> s/can't/can... but don't want to :D
<hcfd> I've patched my kernel and a bunch of crap I've forgotten how to do
<daftykins> i suppose you could clean install on the SSD, fully update, then move the files across in the same way
<daftykins> ooh-err
<ali1234> that's what i do every 6 months
<ali1234> stops my home directory getting filled with rubbish
<hcfd> Yeah.. tis Ubuntu 10.04LTS with tweaks and patches for bits of hardware that took a while to get working
<ali1234> old home directory goes to long term storage/backup
<ali1234> then i cherry pick stuff when i need it
 * hcfd nods
<ali1234> which is usually never
<jacobw> the ubuntu installer won't touch /home anyway
<popey> _if_ you choose manual install jacobw
<hcfd> I need my current patched kernel.. I'll try the gparted way
<ali1234> my "upgrade" procedure goes like this:
<jacobw> ok, that makes sense.
<hcfd> Can gparted copy MBR?
<popey> no
<hcfd> Do this before I reboot into gparted live then?
<ali1234> boot install CD, move /home/al /etc /opt to backup drive, format disk, reinstall
<jacobw> why would you want to copy the mbr?
<popey> thats not a problem you can chroot to the new disk and grub-install
<jacobw> just grub-install /dev/?
<popey> jacobw: you wont have grub
<popey> you need to chroot to the install to do that properly
<hcfd> jacobw, popey, yeah fair point. Just trying to make less work for myself! hah
<popey> i did this on tuesday when my ssd arrived
<hcfd> gparted and chroot it is then
<popey> moved from 320GB spinning rust to 240GB SSD
<daftykins> i do wub SSDs
<hcfd> Nice one popey
<daftykins> popey: which did you get? :)
<jacobw> ssds are a little bit too expensive :(
<daftykins> i've a 256GB crucial m4 in this asus laptop \o/
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/260707-ocz-240gb-vertex-3-ssd-2-5-sata-iii-6gb-s-read-550mb-s-write-520mb-s-vtx3-25sat3-240g
<popey> ^ that one
<daftykins> ah-har
<hcfd> I'm moving from 2x80GB mdadm RAID1... so crap.. to 120GB SSD. Moving to 2.5X the read speed, even with the RAID1. Pity I don't have native SATAIII else I'd have 5X speed
<daftykins> hehe
<dwatkins> I just bought a hybrid disk for my laptop, seems to work very well.
<hcfd> popey, I got a wee OCZ Agility 3.. 120GB, Â£110. Bargain.
<daftykins> i almost wish i had 10Gig ethernet at home to see what my SSDs could push to and from my hefty RAID array
<popey> sweet!
<daftykins> seagate momentus XT?
<daubers> daftykins: Array size?
<hcfd> :D
<daftykins> i've seen one of the first gen in use
<daubers> daftykins: 24 SSDs across 3 raid cards will do 6GB/s+
<daftykins> daubers: still my old 6 x 1TB RAID 5, so not so much potential to test the above :D only ~600GB free on that one now :O
<daftykins> nice :D
<daubers> daftykins: Ick, that'll be slowing down nicely now :)
<hcfd> Pity I've got a bunch of slow Seagate crap RAID1... 3TB worth. Still, that stuff reads at 125MB/sec which isn't too shoddy.
<hcfd> Anyway, I'd better power down and do this thing.  Looking forward to insane VM boot times amongst other benefits :D
<hcfd> Thanks for all your assistance guys.
<hcfd> bbl
<daftykins> :)
<popey> fun
<daftykins> ah when i moved my desktop to an SSD i had my VMs on a 300GB WD velociraptor
<daftykins> guest OSs are like bare metal installs for boot speed etc
<daftykins> :>
<KrimZon> is it possible to customize the ubuntu main menu thing?
<KrimZon> the only thing I ever need to click on there is "More Apps"
<dogmatic69> could anyone help me with renaming files and folders? what is an easy way to do this in batch?
<daftykins> dogmatic69: what are you working on?
<dogmatic69> daftykins: I use CakePHP and the new version changed from floders_like_this/and_files.php to FoldersLikeThis/AndFiles.php
<dogmatic69> want to do that, but have thousands of files
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> so you probably need someone that knows regular expressions to sort out a renaming plan that removes underscores
<dogmatic69> I can prob just write a little php shell script
<dogmatic69> the Cake framework has a underscore_text -> UnderscoreText method, Ill just read the paths, loop through and use `mv $old $new`
<jacobw> match ?_? and toupper ?&?
<jacobw> hmm, not quite
<jacobw> hi hamitron
<hamitron> evening
<hamitron> :)
<Memran> hello uk ubuntu-ers :)
<popey> oh look, i have hud now
<popey> hello Memran
<zleap> hello Memran, popey
<popey> my firefox keeps locking up
 * popey reboots
<Memran> hm just over 1 year left of LTS on my 10.04
<jacobw> 'bones' is so implausible
<jacobw> 10.04 is old now :)
<Memran> I think I need to plan my upgrade]
<Memran> I only updated to 10.04 yesterday because my 9.10 repos were all 404-ing
<Memran> lol
<KrimZon> I'm on 10.04 here
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> yeah i run my HTPCs on LTS
<daftykins> shall have to move up from Lucid
<daftykins> if XBMC loves another version long time, that is
<jacobw> i'm watching 'bones'
<Memran> this is my proxy server and ssh tunnel for bypassing the corporate proxy at work ;)
<jacobw> its so implausible :@
<Memran> but now I want to host some webapps
<jacobw> ok
<popey> hmm, thunderbird and firefox both locking up
<Memran> and my app server of of choice is tomcat7, but there's no package in the 10.04 repos
 * Memran sighs
<jacobw> popey: versions?
<popey> 11
<popey> on 12.04
<jacobw> Memran: what exactly do you want to host?
<Memran> My web app portfolio for work references etc
<Memran> Basically a bunch of demo sites I've made
<Memran> Its just that I use tomcat7 on my development machine, and would prefer my server to be the same
<Memran> it doesn't have to be, but its just that little bit more config, that I don't want to have to do :)
<Memran> I think my upgrade from karmic to lucid was not 100% clean :|
<Memran> the more i investigate, the more issues i find
<jacobw> what issues are you finding?
<jacobw> you should be able to replicate your tomcat environment
<Memran> eg: "java -version" causing the jvm to fall over
<jacobw> which jvm are you using?
<Memran> well i just tried to install openjdk-6
<Memran> but synaptic spewed out lots of errors
<Memran> so i don't think any jvm is correctly installed right now
<jacobw> how did you upgrade? using do-release-upgrade?
<Memran> synaptic did it via the gui
<Memran> i'm not particularly linux-savvy :(
<jacobw> `cat /etc/issue`
<Memran> Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS \n \l
<jacobw> ok, what does `apt-get -f install` say?
<jacobw> there's a useful tool called pastebinit, `apt-get install pastebinit` and then you can pipe any command to pastebinit and get back a pastebin url
<Memran> k i'll get that
<Memran> apt is spewing out *lots* of errors
<Memran> installing pastebinit now :)
<Memran> or possibly not, since apt is going nuts again
<AlanBell> what is the screencast thing that is is the new hotness?
<jacobw> ok, if it can't install pastebinit just copy its output from the terminal and pastebin manually
<popey> kazam
<AlanBell> thanks
<Memran> i think pastebinit installed
<Memran> I am re-running what you said before
<popey> I'd ran "sudo apt-get update" first tbh
<popey> *run
<Memran> http://pastebin.com/raaRe3j6
<Memran> it appears to be compaining about repo site certicicates
<popey> Memran: sudo apt-get update
<popey> and please pastebin the result
<AlanBell> no, they are not repo certs
<AlanBell> they are root certs
<Memran> http://pastebin.com/3i06zQ2i
<popey> sudo apt-get install --reinstall ca-certificates-java
<Memran> same errors as first pastebin
<Memran> i can re pastebinit if you need?
<popey> hmmm
<popey> how much ram does your pc have Memran ?
<jacobw> uh?
<Memran> 265M iirc
<popey> that may be why
<Memran> let apt finish and I'll check :)
<Memran> o
<popey> bug 556044
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 556044 in ca-certificates-java (Debian) "package ca-certificates-java 20091021 failed to install/upgrade: Unterprozess installiertes post-installation-Skript gab den Fehlerwert 1 zurÃ¼ck" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556044
<popey> see comment 11
<Memran> apparently i have 512m
<Memran> http://pastebin.com/9JSsTUGT
<Memran> if i am reading that correctly "free -m"
<popey> wonder if java has a small heap or something
<AlanBell> 10.04.4 just got released
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've been seeing /etc/issue updates since last night ;-)
<dogmatic69> Memran: thats loads, Mem:          8000       7900        100 <- 100MB
<Memran> er you lost me, sorry
<AlanBell> lost me too
<AlanBell> anyhow, yes you have 512MB
<dogmatic69> Memran: free -m
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: that was the previous pastebin
<Memran> thats what I did, here: http://pastebin.com/9JSsTUGT
<dogmatic69> nv
<AlanBell> do you need ca-certificates-java?
<Memran> i don't know whether i need it or not
<AlanBell> is there something you are trying to install that depends on it?
<AlanBell> what they are is the public keys of a heap of companies like verisign etc, certificate authorities
<Memran> i guess openjdk6
<AlanBell> they are there for creating certificate signing requests and for serving up as part of a chain of certificates for SSL
<Memran> i dont need to use it in my apps
<AlanBell> if you are not doing SSL and you don't need your server to connect to ssl resources then you might not need that package at all
<Memran> ok, so i'll try to remove it
<Memran> oh, it will remove all of openjdk too
<Memran> :|
<AlanBell> ok, well that won't work then :(
<Memran> i guess i'll install sun's jdk instead
<Memran> apt failed me!
<Memran> ;)
<AlanBell> I wouldn't install the sun thing
<AlanBell> maybe the new upstream oracle jdk
<AlanBell> which is openjdk7 anyway really
<jacobw> remember the java update of last month
<Memran> ah
<Memran> well with openjdk6 removed, apt-get update looks clean
<jacobw> update should give you any problems
<jacobw> *shouldn't
<jacobw> upgrade will try to configure the package and trigger the postinst scripts that causes those errors
<Memran> doing that now
<Memran> i guess it will take a while
<popey> I'd remove all of java and reinstall
<Memran> its removed :)
 * CTtechguy is away: 
 * bigcalm flops
 * popey flips
<bigcalm> I used to make flip flops with capacitors and leds for fun
<jacobw> ooh
<bigcalm> A good night was had by all
<bigcalm> And now, time for snoozy land
<jacobw> goodnight
<bigcalm> Toodle pip
<hcfd_> Hey, so I've got my SSD booting now
<hcfd_> But.. when I try to login to Ubuntu 'Unable to cd to '/home/$user'
<hcfd_> Any ideas?
<hcfd_> '/home' isn't in fstab, and never has been
<hcfd_> Is this just a permissions issue? I would fix it if I could but ofc I use sudo or sudo su *after* logging in
<hcfd_> ie: I can't login as root on Ubuntu 10.04.4LTS
<popey> did you copy your /home directory over o the new ssd?
<popey> you can login as root âº  boot to single user mode
<hcfd_> I did copy it over.. I think perhaps there is a permissions issue
<hcfd_> I have not set a password for root
<popey> you dont nede to
<popey> hold shift at boot to get boot menu and choose recovery mode
<hcfd_> Remind me how to boot to single user mode? It usually boots to CLI asking for login.
<popey> or edit the kernel boot line and make it have 'single' in it
<hcfd_> Ah recovery mode, sure
<hcfd_> argh,corrupt graphics
<hcfd_> okay, login prompt
<hcfd_> Looks like it's not in single user mode?
<hcfd_> Ahh, okay, got a root shell but the graphics are a tad messed up.. unreadable actually.
<hcfd_> Root login now enabled..this will work, hopefully :)
<Memran> so... there's no 11.xx LTS?
<hcfd_> 10.04 and 12.04 -- even numbers Memran
<hcfd_> popey, so I'm in as root, permissions look fine.. no idea why I can't login as $user
<Memran> ok, i'll investigate that upgrade path :)
<hcfd_> :)
<Memran> hmm is there a 12.04 availble? lol
<Memran> i see 10.04 lts (my current) and 11.10
<hcfd_> 12.04 is out soon
<hcfd_> April in fact (hence the 04)
<Memran> its a date!
<Memran> lol i never realised :)
<hamitron> just make sure you bring cake ;)
<Memran> hehe :)
<hcfd_> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-17
<hcfd_> Ahh.. got it. / was set to 700, needed to be 755 permissions
<hcfd_> :D
<hcfd_> Silly me
<popey> how did that happen?
<popey> did you not copy permissions over?
<Memran> i need sleep
<Memran> good night, and thanks for help :)
<hcfd_> popey, I did.. but I copied to /media/SSDbuntu
<hcfd_> Where SSDbuntu is where I mounted the new drive
<hcfd_> I'm guessing the permissions issue arose there?
<popey> how did you copy?
<hcfd_> sudo cp -afv /path/to/src/*  /path/to/dst
<hcfd_> Did I do bad?
<hcfd_> Path to dst was SSDbuntu in /media, created by root
<hcfd_> then mounted
<hcfd_> If I let Ubuntu mount it itself maybe there wouldn't be this issue.. I dunno.
<hcfd_> She's all-singing, all-dancing... time to benchmark this SSD
<hcfd_> Now that / is on it
<hcfd_> Whoa, okay, things are marginally slower than when the drive was raw
<hcfd_> 0.2ms access, 215MB/sec average read - not bad! If only I had SATAIII 6.0Gbps..
 * hamitron looks at his empty sataIII ports
<hamitron> using IDE
<hamitron> :/
<hcfd_> Oh dear, how come hamitron?
<hamitron> too tight to buy another drive till that one breaks
<hamitron> ;)
<hcfd> haha
<hcfd> I was too, but then I decided it was time to start upgrading a little... treat myself, you know?
<directhex> i want a new pc
<directhex> but child on the way, and still paying off the wife's pc... :/
<hcfd> Christ... what did you buy her?
<hamitron> I'm starting to just not care about hardware specs, so long as it works
 * hcfd pats his humble Q6600/8GB/3TB machine and wishes he had an i5 with 16GB
<hamitron> I still not got quad core
<hamitron> :/
<hcfd> hamitron, ah me too.. for the most part. Gear lust never goes away though. However, this SSD was a good purchase considering my HDDs are the slowest part of the system, and always in use. Widening the bottlenecks is always a good idea.
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I don't do much on the hdd in this PC
<hcfd> I have way more CPU than I need and just about enough RAM
<directhex> hcfd er... i5 2500, radeon 6970, 120G SSD, 8G RAM, blu-ray burner. other odds & sods
<hamitron> I'm still a huge fan of less cores, but higher clock speeds
<hamitron> :)
<hcfd> Also got 43Meg FTTC service.. so.. yeah, 3TB isn't enough storage.. but I'm trying to get used to being able to stream stuff vs download to disk
 * hamitron dribbles
<hcfd> hamitron, best of both! I almost bought a C2D rather than a C2Q.. but this thing was, at one point, clocked to 3.4GHz and ran fine.
<hcfd> 3.4GHz x 4 cores is kinda nice
<hamitron> yeh
<directhex> i only get 27M from my FTTC
<hamitron> "only"
<hamitron> :|
<hcfd> hah
<directhex> 8M up though
<hcfd> Me too
<hcfd> And trust me, 'only' 27M is awesome
<hamitron> infinity?
<hcfd> Yeah
<directhex> yeah
<hamitron> if that is available to homes, is it available for businesses too?
<hcfd> hamitron, yes
<directhex> bt sucks though. e.g. they automatically opt you in to using your homehub as a public openzone hotspot
<hcfd> I work at a place with 2xInfinity... ie: 90Meg down, 16Meg up... and another place had 45Meg down, 8Meg up.. like myself :)
<hamitron> I shall wrap tin foil around it >:|
<hcfd> directhex, you can turn that shit off can you not?
<hcfd> Or.. don't use the hub
<hcfd> Infinity means you have a modem and separate 'hub'
<directhex> you can't disable it on the hub anymore
<hcfd> Just put the hub in the bin and replace with Crisco!
<hamitron> you have to use their homehub?
<hcfd> Don't have to
<hamitron> guess not
<hamitron> :)
<hcfd> I am, in fact
<directhex> you can only disable it via the bt fon account page
<directhex> hamitron: any high-end cable router
<directhex> hamitron: or replace both devices with a vdsl router
<hcfd> \o/
<hamitron> reckon a WRT54GL will handle it?
<hcfd> No
<hcfd> I doubt
<directhex> hamitron: hm, doubt it
<hamitron> no? :|
<directhex> hamitron: old kit. designed for the 8M down days
<hcfd> Broadcom 200MHz
<hcfd> pfah
<hamitron> well, will have to give it a go
<hamitron> ;)
<hcfd> I use ddwrt on one for WAP but that's about it
<hamitron> again, too tight to upgrade if "it works"
<hamitron> ;)
<hcfd> Would replace the BT hub except I'm moving soon
<hcfd> hah, my thoughts exactly hamitron
<hcfd> I *will* replace it the port forwarding turns out to be a pile of crap
<hamitron> the load is always 0.00 I find
<hcfd> Going to utilise my upstream soon with a couple of services... My flippin VPS host is crap
<hamitron> even on 5mbit with 3500 connections
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> sometimes get 0.05
<hcfd> Hmm
<hcfd> My WRT is a piece of crap then
<hamitron> I had to disable UPnP to get it working right
<hamitron> disabled QoS too
<hamitron> but who uses them? ;)
<hcfd> Hmm
<hcfd> Load avg: 0.13, 0.05, 0.01
<hcfd> 0.9MB RAM free
<hcfd> I only have *2* wireless clients.
<hamitron> oh, I disabled wireless too
<hamitron> haha
<hcfd> 110 active connections
<hcfd> Uptime 40 days
<hcfd> hmm
<hcfd> Linksys WRT54G/GL/GS
<hamitron> Time: 00:21:08 up 1 day, 51 min, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
<hcfd> It's a GS
<hcfd> Is that crap?
<hamitron> dunno
<hcfd> Seems like a pile of crap :D
<hamitron> not the worst if it runs dd-wrt
<hcfd> Oh.. yeah.. actually, my main workstation is cabled to it too. Forget I took my Gigabit switch elsewhere for the timebeing
<hcfd> s/Forget/Forgot
<hcfd> Now to move some data around on this SSD
<hamitron> 3514 connections
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> I like to try keep that below 2000
<hamitron> hcfd, do you use QoS?
<hcfd> No
<hcfd> I've got 43M down baby!
<hamitron> ;0
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> just that adds a lot to the load on the cpu
<hamitron> hcfd, so your wrt54g handles 43M down fine?
<hcfd> aye, I know what you're saying
<hcfd> No no.. I have line == modem == BTHomeHub3 == eth to WRT ---> devices
<hcfd> It can handle 43M fine on the 100Meg switch inside
<hcfd> Wifi is still 802.11b/g.. and a bit 'meh
<hcfd> No modem in the model I have
<hcfd> BTHomeHub3 is in another building, serving a bunch of wireless devices.. about 4-6 or so
<hcfd> The WRT is usually just for wireless in this building for a couple of devices, but as my Gigabit switch is elsewhere... I'm using the WRT switch for other things atm
<hamitron> ah
<hcfd> :)
<hcfd> It's kind of funny that my LAN setup is so crappy
<hcfd> I have a bunch of 2950s and 3550s here for messing with
<hamitron> tbh, I find my P120 comp faster as a router, compared to the wrt54gl
<hcfd> But I don't use them on my LAN
<hcfd> I imagine it would be.. What are you running on it, some flavour of BSD?
<hamitron> it was slackware
<hcfd> Yay for Slackware!
<hcfd> I used it as my desktop distro for many years before I realised I was being silly and that Ubuntu is about a million times more sane (on the desktop)
<hamitron> I'm just starting to give up on ubuntu tbh
<hamitron> it is good, just not what I need atm
<hamitron> my newer machines may run 12.04 when it comes out
<hamitron> will see
<hamitron> :)
 * hcfd nods
<hcfd> What kind of work do you need your distro to do?
<hamitron> I need it to work
<hcfd> Stop updating it!
<hamitron> on a wide range of hardware
<hcfd> heh
<hamitron> hehe
<hcfd> I'm running 2.6.32-28-generic-pae since.. ages ago
<hamitron> 8.04 was the last version I found worked well on everything I got
<hcfd> True that
<hcfd> 10.10 was a mess
<hcfd> I stopped trying after that
<hamitron> but it isn't a distro targeting what I got
<hcfd> 10.04.4 LTS is in good shape for me
<hamitron> I use 10.04 on a few of my machines
<hcfd> Looking forward to 12.04 but again I won't be hurrying to switch.. not until I have a few days free to iron stuff out
<directhex> hamitron: really concerned about 12.04 :/
<hamitron> but trying slackware 13.37 now, and loving it
<hamitron> directhex, why?
<directhex> migrating a dozen non-technical users, many of whom don't even work in the office, onto a totally alien experience from 10.04
<hcfd> hamitron, I haven't tried slack since... what was the version with the Tazmanian devil instead of Tux? 13.0?
<hamitron> heck, I don't even know what to be worried about..... not even tried unity ;)
<hcfd> Unity is for the bin.
<hamitron> didn't realise slackware had changed the logo? something to do with a smoking ban? :D
<daftykins> directhex: are you putting it in at work?
<hamitron> is unity THAT different?
<directhex> hamitron: nontechnical users throw a shit fit if an icon changes colour.
<hamitron> guess it means staff training :/
<directhex> daftykins: well people are on 10.04 now, so 12.04 is the upgrade path
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I'm guessing not so much will change for me.... I use LXDE
<hamitron> and most people I've trialed LXDE on, prefer it to Gnome
<hcfd> :)
<hcfd> brb, rebooting to test new home partition
<hamitron> gl
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> it's so totally time for bed
<hamitron> that or coffee
<hcfd> Yay!
<hcfd> /dev/sdb1              46G  7.4G   37G  17% /
<hcfd> /dev/sdb1              46G  7.4G   37G  17% /
<hcfd> er
<hcfd> /dev/sdb2              63G   28G   33G  47% /home
<hamitron> sdb is the SSD?
<hcfd> Yes
<hamitron> cool :)
<hcfd> Now to clear out some cruft in /home
<hcfd> And take my VMs off of /dev/md1 and move to SSD
<hcfd> +150MB/sec speed boost
<hcfd> Okay XP SP3 Performance Edition, show me what you got!
<hcfd> Uhm..
<hcfd> Okay, so that was 6 seconds
<hcfd> hahaha :D
<hamitron> can hardly expect windows to be "high performance"
<hamitron> ;/
 * hcfd needs a tissue
<hcfd> True that
<hcfd> But.. 6 seconds.. fuck me
<hamitron> unless you are female and sexy, no ty
<hamitron> ;/
<hcfd> Time to see what MacOSX's boot time is
<daftykins> hamitron: don't be picky :P
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> you should know I like things to be perfect, by how much I complain
<hcfd> hamitron, this is the internet, you can pretend I'm either one of these two: http://tinyurl.com/89kygsa :p
<daftykins> hamitron: that or the OS bugs you put up with ;)
<hamitron> daftykins can be the other then
<hamitron> ;D
 * daftykins pouts
<hamitron> at least I'm sick of KDE now
<hcfd> hah
<hcfd> hamitron, it took you more than a minute to hate it? :D
<daftykins> hcfd: it's time we went shopping, grab the trolley?
<hamitron> 2 weeks
<hamitron> I like to give things a fair test
<hamitron> still torn between LXDE and fluxbox
<hamitron> probably LXDE is best, as newbs can work it better
<daftykins> g'night all
<hamitron> nn daftykins
<daftykins> don't sty up too late now
<daftykins> :>
<hamitron> late?
<hamitron> the night is young ;/
<daftykins> it's mah birthday and i'll sleep if i want to ;D
<hcfd> night daftykins
<hamitron> grats
<hamitron> :)
<hcfd> Happy birthday :)
<daftykins> cheers :)
 * daftykins disappears
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: hows you?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good thanks czajkowski :-D - You are being especially nice. What's up?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh yes, how are you too?
<czajkowski> good thanks
<diplo> Morning all
<czajkowski> ahh good other people have the same bug as me https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-power/+bug/933466
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 933466 in indicator-power "Power icon doesn't show charging or draining" [Critical,In progress]
<DJones> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> I see apple have decided to drop the subtlety
<popey> hmm, thunderbird is broken for me today
<popey> i just get an empty window
<imexil> popey: I thought you are on gmail anyway
<popey> personal mail is, work mail is thunderbird
<buzz_> popey, thunderbird --safe-mode then disable addons and it will work. then enable all cept the erm messaging menu
<buzz_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/+bug/933951
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 933951 in thunderbird (Ubuntu Precise) "Messaging menu extension interacts badly with lightning in precise making thunderbird unusable" [High,Fix released]
<AlanBell> morning all
<buzz_> mornin
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :)
<buzz_> friday yay..
<buzz_> is it too early for a beer ?
 * buzz_ has been working all night..
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did someone say beer?
<buzz_> yeh sorry
<TheOpenSourcerer> IT'S FRIDAY :-D:-D:-D
<christel> mmmbeer
<buzz_> \o/
<popey> haha, fixed 12 mins ago
<gord> if anyone wanted to write a greasemonkey script that moves the close button in the google plus image viewer thing to the left, i would be very happy ;)
<popey> thanks buzz_
<buzz_> np honey
<buzz_> if you see the bug, i was there just earlier saying "help" :)
 * popey marks a dupe
<TheOpenSourcerer> That is uber cool: http://gizmodo.com/5885610/night-snowboarding-in-an-led-suit-is-mesmerizing-to-watch
<buzz_> TheOpenSourcerer, that is awesome
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: told you I'd live through a night in a restaurant with czajkowski
 * bigcalm groans and rolls out of bed
<bigcalm> davmor2: you were very well behaved ;)
<bigcalm> That was a top notch evening. Glad to have been invited
<daubers> Does anyone know of a way to hardware accelerate md5 or sha?
<gord> daubers, write an opencl md5/sha hasher?
<gord> it wouldn't be that hard
<daubers> gord: Might come to that I think
<gord> though depending on your situation, you might not get the speed boost you want
<daubers> disk access speed isn't a problem
<daubers> I need to find a way to hash a file (create a recomputable unique ID for a file not based on it's name) in no more than a minute
<daubers> File can be upto ~50GB
<gord> can you read 50gb in a minute?
<daubers> Yes
<gord> then i don't see why you can't do it on the cpu
<daubers> It's not quick enough
<gord> md5 really isn't an intensive algorithm
<daubers> Dunno why, but it takes forever
<gord> probably just the implementation you are using
<AlanBell> does it have to be based on every single bit of the file?
<daubers> It has to be unique enough to differntiate files
<AlanBell> how different are the files?
<AlanBell> would it be two big videos, identical except for a couple of frames?
<daubers> More than likely video files, might be relativley similar
<DJones> AlanBell: Any interest in this comment http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/news/government-anticipates-5-billion-cash-savings-year "Â£140 million saved by demanding â for the first time â a rigorous business case for any significant ICT spend and only allowing it where it is absolutely necessary to bring government in line with standard business practices."
<AlanBell> yeah, it is interesting
<AlanBell> I don't think the government is a good customer though
<AlanBell> they are going to remain dependent on the SIs
<ali1234> daubers: sha256 is the core of bitcoin, there are a LOT of very fast GPU implementations of it now. you do need an AMD GPU though
 * oimon has turned his back on unity due to irreconcilable differences :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: You going to one of these BCS Awareness events? http://www.flax.co.uk/blog/2012/02/17/searching-and-finding-open-source-in-uk-government/
<ali1234> you will probably have difficulty streaming the 50GB to the GPU fast enough to hash it tbh
<bigcalm> popey: You know how VM are upgrading everybody for free? Had a letter this morning saying they were putting an extra 4.70 per month onto our bundle :(
<AlanBell> oh dunno, might do
<popey> bigcalm: yeah, i got that too
<gord> you got upgraded to the newer price bracket for free!
<bigcalm> The fudgers
<bigcalm> Heh
<daubers> ali1234: Hmm.. might have a bit of a dig around
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<ali1234> daubers: is this just a simple "are these files the same" test? ie it's not required to be secure?
<popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/efb76e490d7a775ece7eaaef205a927866a16594?authuser=0&hl=en&source=1#
<popey> fun âº
<ali1234> daubers: what i mean is you are not worried about people intentionally generating collisions
<bigcalm> popey: you're inviting us to the hangout?
<popey> yeah, why not
<popey> âº
<popey> we're testing
<gord> latest ubuntu has broken my pseye webcam :( can't play
<daubers> ali1234: Yes, pretty much
 * bigcalm spies a pirate
<oimon> any gnome shell users know how to get the tomboy icon to appear in the icon tray ?
<davmor2> oimon: I thought their icon tray was more locked down than Unity's so you probably can't
<oimon> davmor2, hmm. not a show stopper but rather annoying. maybe there's some gconf thing i can do
<brobostigon> oimon: i have tomboy automaticlly starting, here, just use the startup config app, to get it to start,
<oimon> brobostigon, what about the icon in the tray?
<brobostigon> oimon: it is there.
<oimon> oh
<oimon> i start it by hand, and it isn't there
<brobostigon> weird. no idea then.
<oimon> it's in the notifications "backup tray" at the bottom instead
<oimon> otherwise i think i might be happy with gnome shell going forward
<oimon> using docky instead of the gnome window chooser
<oimon> out of the box shell is a fail, but after tweaking it can be made useful
<brobostigon> first thing i changed, was to have the full date and 24hr clock, in the calendar thingie, in the top center.
<oimon> i got the google calendar appearing in the planner, which is nice
<brobostigon> oimon: it takes that info via evolution if i remember.
<ant0xa> hiya. i have problem with bbc iplayer. its stops playing after few minutes. any other flash player working fine.
<oimon> brobostigon, i don't have evo installed, i use a script to do the checks
<brobostigon> oimon: ah, interesting, i didnt know that was possible.
<oimon> brobostigon, http://maketecheasier.com/integrate-google-calendar-into-gnome-shell/2011/10/04
<oimon> although "open calendar fails"
<oimon> i don't need that bit
<brobostigon> thank you oimon
<oimon> i also use the gmail checker extension
<oimon> which is great
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - BBC Micro 2 is coming: http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/news/raspberry-pi-to-run-bbc-micro-2/ :-D
<oimon> brobostigon, how many screens you have?
<brobostigon> oimon: screens ?
<ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: "cross platform IDE based on eclipse"
<ali1234> i can't imagine anything more different from the original
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I know. But it is about learning.
<ali1234> java, eclipse, 256mb ram...
<ali1234> and an arm CPU
<ali1234> that's going to work well
<brobostigon> oimon: my eeepc has one screen, yes.
<oimon> brobostigon,, i wask asking because switching desktops only works on my left screen. didn't know if that was design
<brobostigon> oimon: ah, i see, no idea, good question.
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/feb/17/lego-launch-minecraft-sets
<czajkowski> popey: eh......... did you get thunderbird back working this morning
<davmor2> czajkowski: tis easy, in terminal type thunderbird -safe-mode
<oimon> brobostigon, http://gregcor.com/2011/05/07/fix-dual-monitors-in-gnome-3-aka-my-workspaces-are-broken/ however i may keep the current setting to keep thunderbird always on the right workspace
<brobostigon> oimon: ok, interesting,
<daubers> urgh, academics :(
<CaMason> Need some help. I'm trying to connect to a ubuntu server (via teamviewer, office network) which is responding to ping, but not SSH or samba. It's 300 miles away and there are noobs at the other end
<ali1234> CaMason: poke popey until he finishes making trublr
<CaMason> They had a power cut and the machine isn't coming up properly
<ali1234> so what state is it in?
<ali1234> it's probably doing an extremely long disk check?
<CaMason> how can I tell?
<ali1234> you can't
<ali1234> you have to ask the people who can actually see it
<CaMason> it's apparently been powered on all morning
<ali1234> "what's on the screen"
<CaMason> There's no screen on it. Asking them to hook one up now
<CaMason> which leads me to another topic... why are IP KVMs so damn expensive??
<daubers> CaMason: IPMI in motherboards is your friend
<CaMason> I'm amazed that there isn't a common low-level basic KVM system on motherboards
<daubers> CaMason: That's what IPMI is supposed to be
<ali1234> hmm the sum of the square of a normalised signal always = the number of samples
<ali1234> i didn't expect that
<ali1234> i suppose it makes sense, when you think about it
<mattt> afternoon
<oimon> i've discovered that i never visit a browser bookmark after bookmarking a site
<czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/187985
<jpds> oimon: Clearly wasn't a very good book.
<ali1234> czajkowski: yeah, unity sucks, we know :)
<jpds> ali1234: No, it does not.
<czajkowski> ali1234: it doesnt and mind your language
<mrevell> davmor2, bigcalm: I asked at the hotel about co-working. I said Â£75 per day was a bit too much and asked if they could do us a deal. They said they could do it for Â£30 per person, which includes lunch and coffees/teas throughout the day. I'm not sure that's going to work for me, particularly when Light House is around a tenner including lunch and drinks.
<davmor2> mrevell: no that's still a bit steep
<mrevell> davmor2, It's also more than Â£75, if there's more than two of us, so it seemed a bit back to front.
<gordonjcp> kind of defeats the purpose, eh
<mrevell> yeah, weird
<gordonjcp> the thought occurs that they're going to be doing naff all trade during a midweek day *anyway*
<davmor2> mrevell: indeed, I think it was more of a...Â£30 is as cheap as we could go per person,  oh well that's cheaper than 75 bargain
<gordonjcp> that they've got a couple of people sitting fairly visibly in their cafe at all will help trade
<mrevell> :)
<gordonjcp> never mind that you're actually going to be buying stuff
<popey> tell them you'll blog about it on planet ubuntu âº
<mrevell> heh
<davmor2> http://mhall119.com/2012/02/the-many-sides-of-jono-bacon/ ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
<bigcalm> mrevell: thanks for looking into it. The Lighthouse will continue to get our coffee money for a while yet
<davmor2> mrevell, bigcalm: +1
<bigcalm> Depending upon the weather, will wear thermals next week ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: Thermals are the way forward for cold days at the lighthouse I fear
 * popey wonders if anything is happening with office space in Farnham
 * popey tickles AlanBell and TheOpenSourcerer 
<AlanBell> ooh that tickles
<AlanBell> popey: the one that we were half considering is under offer, someone moving in soon, but there are others out there
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are lots of offices in Farnham
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was just looking at the For Let signs.
<Myrtti> hire me, I can make coffee and fetch sandwiches
<Myrtti> I can actually make sandwiches too
<davmor2> Myrtti: but only in sudo mode right?
<Myrtti> sudo mode is reserved for making donuts
<Myrtti> sandwiches are easier, all you need for that is a nice smile
<davmor2> Myrtti: Hmmmm donuts
<Myrtti> I got chocolate and a card from my Valentine, I returned the gesture with donuts
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6878005605/
<AlanBell> oh wow
<davmor2> nice
 * AlanBell adds "make donuts" to job specification
<gord> i think that picture has given me diabetes.
<popey> lol
<Myrtti> oi!
<Myrtti> it's not that bad, if eaten in moderation
<Myrtti> we still have plenty left
<popey> how did the steak and ale pie turn out?
<Myrtti> lovely :-)
<Myrtti> still have some of the ale left as there obviously aren't any 400ml bottles in the state monopoly store and neither of us are too keen on drinking it as is
<daubers> "state monopoly store"? Is it run by this man http://buycashflowproperties.escapeartist.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/monopoly_man.jpg ?
<gord> note to self, must photoshop mr monopoly moustache and top hat on to jason smith.
<daubers> heh
<gord> he won the real money monopoly game we played in budapest because he's some sort of monopoly savant
<Myrtti> daubers: http://alko.fi/frontpage
<gordonjcp> gord: lol
<daubers> Myrtti: I see....
<jacobw> lol @ 'monopoly savant'
<Myrtti> ie. all ales are over 4.7%, so to get ale we had to go to Alko.
<daubers> right
<daubers> How strange
<Myrtti> I personally find it strager to have vodka and stuff in a supermarket
<Myrtti> but things just work different
<daubers> Yup
<daubers> and different is good, unless you're an old grouchy so and so
<Seeker`> Myrtti: can i have a sandwich?
<Myrtti> sure
<Seeker`> \o/
<Seeker`> nomnomnom
<DJones> Ooh, free chocolates from a supplier :)
 * DJones hides the http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LsPO8pkSqmE/TbPmYv2p_QI/AAAAAAAAB1g/0tfx03exTgk/s1600/twisted.jpg from christel 
<davmor2> Myrtti: moderation is 50 a day instead of a 100 right?
<christel> oh my!
<Myrtti> davmor2: I made only 20 edible ones
<Myrtti> my first ever attempt to make donuts without any help
<davmor2> Myrtti: when you say help do you actually mean adult supervision :D
<davmor2> Myrtti: to be fair they do look yummy
<Myrtti> davmor2: well I usually do... um. Did try out new things with in mums supervision even as an adult, so I suppose yeah.
<Myrtti> davmor2: thanks.
<gord> huh, the game double fine are producing (big game studio) based on kickstarter donations is getting mac and linux releases, neat
<directhex> when someone hands you $1.9m, it's hard to say no to their little pleas
<popey> i thought it was planned to be cross platform from the start?
<gord> right, but this isn't an indie company, this is a biiig company, they very rarely go near linux
<gord> these guys make proper games
<directhex> gord, thing is, decision on target platforms is down to the publisher, not the developer. if the publisher says "don't spend any time on linux" they won't. if they say "fine, linux, but we're not paying for it" then generally they won't unless they're nerds or it's an easy port. in this case, the publisher (i.e. the people giving the advance to pay for development) is *us*.
<directhex> so when the comments page and tim's twitter mentions list is filled with cross-platform requests, and the game is massively overfunded, then they have the resources to do stuff(tm)
<directhex> popey, the $400k target was for osx and win32. now it's osx, win32, linux, ios, and android
<popey> blimey
<gord> hum, next osx is going to sign applications, non verified ones get blocked
<directhex> gord, blocked, with a big warning to drop the app in the trash!
<daubers> gord: I noticed they where unsubtle about the app name controlling all that
<gordonjcp> aargh
<gordonjcp> anyone here particularly enthusiastic about mapping software?
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: someone in -ie is
<gordonjcp> so we've sold this mapping solution to a university for their security guys, that plots where they are based on GPS data
<gordonjcp> from their radios
<AlanBell> http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/866510-ulysses-riddle-solved-how-to-cross-dublin-without-passing-a-pub
<gordonjcp> two grand's worth of software, list of bugs that reads like the health inspector's report on a pub toilet, very little response to reports of even the worst bugs, and now it appears that the company supplying it no longer support it
<gordonjcp> it can't be *that* hard
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: nice
<AlanBell> coordinate transforms from GPS to whatever the map wants is probably not very hard for a limited area
<ali1234> bespoke mapping software is awful
<ali1234> it's pretty much the perfect example of how to lock customers into an endless upgrade cycle
<directhex> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Getting_The_Source
<directhex> coordinate transform is basically all openstreetmap does.
<ali1234> yeah that part is trivially easy
<ali1234> the hard part is cracking custom protocols used between the GPS units and the proprietary database software that they run everything off
<ali1234> if you are ucky you will only need to brute for a MSSQL password to access the data... and then figure out how their schema works
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: osmgpsmap - solved problem
<AlanBell> indeed, what is the unsolved part?
<gordonjcp> ali1234: this expensive software we have is written in a mixture of C#, Access and Crystal Reports
<ali1234> sounds familiar
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: getting the data off the radios taking into account Motorola's proprietary communications protocols (which might have been cracked by someone - as an employee of a Motorola dealer I certainly couldn't say I've looked at them)
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: and making a UI that doesn't suck elephants through incredibly fine gauze
<ali1234> crack that database
<AlanBell> yeah, so the protocol is just undocumented and odd rather than encrytped right?
 * daubers wonders how many companies have these radios and whether such a system would be worth some pennies to certain undesirable market sectors
<ali1234> they all have different radios
<ali1234> the software is always awful thugh
<ali1234> because there is no way to replace it
<CTtechguy> anyone here use GoDaddy for web hosting?
<ali1234> to give an example, when i finally got into the database there was over 300 different tables in the schema
<ali1234> to get the current position of a unit only involved two of them
<gordonjcp> ali1234: done, trivially easy
<ali1234> but there was so much duplication that you could get it from any of about five tables
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: it's undocumented without signing a hefty NDA and forking over seven grand
<ali1234> that also sounds familiar
<gordonjcp> ali1234: this uses an .mdb for each table
<gordonjcp> no unique IDs, no constraints, no concept of keys at all actually
<ali1234> we were also offer access to an API for Â£2000 per year per seat
<ali1234> without documentation though
<ali1234> if you wanted to use the API, you had to pay the developer to write the code that accessed the API
<gordonjcp> it's just a case of firing bytes over a network scoket
<ali1234> and then pay for access to the API on top of that
<gordonjcp> *socket
<gordonjcp> the code for handling text messages over the radios might, uh
<ali1234> is it SMS based?
<gordonjcp> might be already known outside the NDA if not exactly public knowledge
<gordonjcp> no
<gordonjcp> it's DMR kit
<ali1234> Ok
<gordonjcp> but when you plug a radio into a computer via the USB cable it just shows up as an RNDIS device
<gordonjcp> ironically it's only since they went to the propietary Microsoft-driven RNDIS support that Linux can talk to the radios
<gordonjcp> 'cos ACM didn't work at all
<ali1234> well it will be sending some binary protocol over UDP i expect
<mrevell> Hey popey, czajkowski's desktop is broken. She cannot log in. She is in a terminal (ctrl-alt-f1). She wants me to ask you how she gets from there back to her desktop. Please don't ask me to send her to "letmegooglethatforyou.com" :)
<gordonjcp> ctrl-alt-f7 doesn't do it?
<gordonjcp> ali1234: yeah exactly
<AlanBell> mrevell: does "sudo service lightdm restart" do it?
<mrevell> gordonjcp, Sadly not.
<mrevell> AlanBell, Trying now!
<mrevell> nope
<mrevell> :(
<AlanBell> so no login screen at all, no chance to pick unity2d?
<ali1234> reboot the computer?
<mrevell> ali1234, She's tried a few times but no luck.
<ali1234> consolt the Xorg.0.log
<TheOpenSourcerer> Try Ubuntu 10.10?
<ali1234> yeah basically, don't use +1 if you don't know what you are doing
<davmor2> mrevell: what does dpkg -l libnux say?
<ali1234> does the greeter rely on libnux?
<mrevell> davmor2, no package
<ali1234> !info libnux
<lubotu3> Package libnux does not exist in oneiric
<mrevell> czajkowski is running precise
<davmor2> mrevell: how about dpkg -l libnux*
<ali1234> !info libnux-2.0
<lubotu3> Package libnux-2.0 does not exist in oneiric
<ali1234> !info libnux-2.0-dev
<lubotu3> Package libnux-2.0-dev does not exist in oneiric
<ali1234> oh come on
<ali1234> !info libnux-2.0-dev precise
<lubotu3> libnux-2.0-dev (source: nux): Visual rendering toolkit for real-time applications - dev files. In component main, is optional. Version 2.2.0-0ubuntu1 (precise), package size 232 kB, installed size 1322 kB (Only available for any all)
<ali1234> !info libnux-2.0-0 precise
<lubotu3> libnux-2.0-0 (source: nux): Visual rendering toolkit for real-time applications - shared lib. In component main, is optional. Version 2.2.0-0ubuntu1 (precise), package size 793 kB, installed size 2213 kB (Only available for any all)
<ali1234> i doubt that is the problem though
<ali1234> if you don't even get a greeter it means X is broken
<davmor2> ali1234: stop please it is one of the many missing packages currently
<ali1234> again, does the greeter rely on libnux?
<mrevell> czajkowski gets the greeter but the cog doesn't given her unity3d any more, only 2d and that comes up with a "failed to load" error.
<davmor2> mrevell: so she has upgraded very recently then yes?
<mrevell> czajkowski, two hours ago
<davmor2> mrevell: she is missing sesions for gnome/unity  she'll need to wait till they get fixed and dist-upgrade again
<Cameron_> hi, AlanBell?
<Cameron_> are you online
<mrevell> davmor2, Ah, thanks. Is there no way to get from where she is now to the desktop without waiting for that fix? She has a train journey coming up in an hour :)
<ali1234> mrevell: install gnome or xfce or kde
<davmor2> mrevell: no unity or unity-core till the update comes through,  gord  maybe able to offer an solution
<mrevell> Thanks all for your suggestions and help :)
<davmor2> ali1234: sorry I was trying to figure out if she had dist-upgraded in which case that package which was the easiest to type was one of the missing ones so it had nothing to do with the issue as such it just answered if she had done the dist-upgrade or not
<davmor2> ali1234: it then explained the issue
<davmor2> gord: help czajkowski go on you know you want to :)
<gord> amd64 isn't built yet
<davmor2> gord: so shouldn't be long then
<gord> oh wait no, it is
<mrevell> gord, any idea when she'll be able to do an update?
<gord> mrevell, now?
<davmor2> mrevell: I'm just checking locally now
<gord> unity 5.4 is in main
<mrevell> Ah, thanks :) I'll let her know.
<gord> she should be using archive.ubuntu.com however, other mirrors will be slow
<jpds> gord: gb.archive updates just fine.
<davmor2> jpds: I still have hold out here
<gord> jpds, what i'm saying is that lol.mylocaluniversity.omgthefastest is generally a bad mirror to be on ;)
<gord> for dev releases anyway
<czajkowski> no updates for me
<davmor2> czajkowski: what do you get if you type sudo apt-get install unity-services
<AlanBell> Cameron_: sure, I am always online, ask and I will get back to you
<Cameron_> ok thank you
<Cameron_> i'll brb
<czajkowski> nothing to update
<davmor2> czajkowski: what do you get if you type sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop (always a favourite)
<Adriannom> hi.  on xubuntu 11.10 i've installed compiz, but even though i've updated /etc/xdg/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-session.xml to use compiz it just doesn't.  any ideas where i can go from here?
<czajkowski> error
<czajkowski> following packages have dependencies
<czajkowski> unity 2-d
<czajkowski> but it is not going to be installed
<czajkowski> you have held broken packages
<gord> czajkowski, you don't have any more dodgy ppa's enabled do you?
<czajkowski> bope
<czajkowski> right just got the power indicator fix in
<gord> apt-get -f install should at least try and fix things
<czajkowski> nothing to upgrade
<Adriannom> anyone?
<davmor2> czajkowski: try sudo apt-get -f install ubuntu-desktop
<czajkowski> gona be a long train back
<czajkowski> same eror as before
<Adriannom> i would just do compiz --replace but it says it can't do that cause the window manager is already loaded
<davmor2> czajkowski: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -f install ubuntu-desktop
<Adriannom> then crashes
<davmor2> Adriannom: you might want to ask on the #xubuntu channel if no one here can help
<Adriannom> i'm in like, every channel ;)
<Adriannom> but thanks
<davmor2> czajkowski: ps in future use update manager and if you see unchecked boxes don't upgrade yet till the boxes get checked :)
<czajkowski> :s
<czajkowski> qsame errors
<czajkowski> have to go now
<davmor2> czajkowski: just keep trying it till it works
<czajkowski> train now
<davmor2> czajkowski: when you get back home then :(
<czajkowski>  /away train
<czajkowski> p
<ali1234> when was windows 7 released?
<ali1234> october 2009
<ali1234> hmm
<MartijnVdS> Maybe it was supposed to be Windows '07 ;)
<Adriannom> hehe
<ali1234> just looking at the OS stats on browser watch
<ali1234> browser watch? what is that? i just made it up totally
<ali1234> i meant w3 of course
<Cameron_> alanbell, hi, i need to reinstall the driver for ubuntu from the terminal again -.- lol, any chance you have like a conversation log of when we went through it before?
<czajkowski> yay for tethering and IRCÂ¬
<bigcalm> Yay for the Pendolino trains. Have you got yourself a table?
<czajkowski> yup
<bigcalm> Facing forwards or backwards?
<bigcalm> We're going this way, that way, forwards and backwards
<czajkowski> forwards
 * CTtechguy has been on a train :/
 * czajkowski strangles gord
<davmor2> czajkowski: Don't make me come down there and tickle you, you put gord down now!
<czajkowski> on the train
<czajkowski> vanished from there
<davmor2> czajkowski: I meant the t'interweb connection
<davmor2> hey gord still no unity-services, unity-common, unity, libunity-core, libnux-2.0-common, libnux-2.0, gnome-session-common or gnome session :(
<popey> Good evening all
<Pendulum> CTtechguy: what is someone at UNH doing in Ubuntu UK?
<CTtechguy> Pendulum: hanging out with you crazy UK people
 * Pendulum is at the other end of CT
<czajkowski> lol
<Pendulum> I just so rarely find anyone else in this state in Ubuntu channels that to find you in the channel for another country was a bit surprising
<gord> davmor2, i don't know what you expect me to do ;) its published on i386, not nintendo 64
<gord> i mean amd 64
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: maybe there are only 4 people in the state? ;)
<davmor2> gord: ah cool that'll be why I'm on 64bit
<davmor2> czajkowski: what arch you on?
<bigcalm> davmor2: Hayley and I are going to the Imperial tonight. I get my chinese in the end!
 * CTtechguy thought he could hide in the channel...lol guess noot
<czajkowski> davmor2: 64 bit
<Pendulum> bigcalm: recovered from last night, then? ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: packages haven't finished building yet, so gord gets to blame LP that'll be you then mrs :P
<Pendulum> CTtechguy: tough luck ;)
<bigcalm> Table booked, so easy, yay
<CTtechguy> lol time for a tor
<bigcalm> Pendulum: just about. I was surprised that I ate everything I ordered, and half of czajkowski's nan bread
<Pendulum> haha
<bigcalm> That garlic bread was good, will order it if I find myself there again
<Pendulum> CTtechguy: you might want to take your state out of your name, too. I'd already guessed that part, just happened to notice the newhaven.edu when looking at something in scrollback. Then I had to comment as I've got 2 cousins currently students there and several friends who are graduates.
<CTtechguy> Pendulum: it's not a big deal trust me
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think you are an anti-vampire in that you love garlic the same way they hate it :D
<christel> :o
<christel> mmmgarlic
<bigcalm> Oh yeah, shame about the Lighthouse...
<bigcalm> davmor2: I also love steak ;)
<davmor2> I'm guessing not through the heart though :D
<czajkowski> ok so latest updates means I get to login
<czajkowski> but then kinda hanfgs
<czajkowski> see a black screen and a mouse pointer
<czajkowski> but looks like am making progress
<davmor2> czajkowski: is that installing ubuntu-desktop again?
<czajkowski> will try
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> mega latency issues ssh'ing home >_<
<dwatkins> yeah, my internets are very slow too daftykins (BT)
<daftykins> i'm on my neighbours connection, they kindly offered - not sure who they're with
<daftykins> lets see
<dwatkins> http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/service_status shows 2 issues, no idea if they're related
<daftykins> ah yes i am on BT
<czajkowski> whoo all back to normall
<hamitron> "back"? ;/
<daftykins> she had a surprise i think
<MartijnVdS> a friday evening surprise?
<daftykins> i guess so!
<davmor2> czajkowski: you'll never be normal my dear you'll always be "Special" :)
<davmor2> gord: what is with the BRIGHT!!!!!!! blue notification bubbles?
 * davmor2 wonders if it got it's colour from the epiphany logo and just keep it for the others
<Cameron_> AlanBell, can you tell me when you're here please
 * AlanBell returns
<AlanBell> full of food
<Cameron_> oh hello
<Cameron_> i need to reinstall the driver for ubuntu from the terminal again -.- lol, any chance you have like a conversation log of when we went through it before?
<AlanBell> driver for what?
<AlanBell> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/01/22/%23ubuntu.txt appears to be when I last spoke to you the most
<AlanBell> [15:00] <AlanBell> Cameron|iPad: I think "sudo apt-get install fglrx" might do it
<AlanBell> yay, new unity is out
<AlanBell> new apps lens, wonder if it is any good now
<davmor2> AlanBell: get preped for this though http://ubuntuone.com/7LFbNGGiQD0taHsHv7TOPT
<AlanBell> woah
<AlanBell> is that intentional?
<davmor2> possibly not
<davmor2> I didn't do it lets put it that way :)
<AlanBell> still haven't ditched the badly implemented shadow that looks like it is related to the top panel :(
<AlanBell> ok, upgrade installed, lets see if I can get unity3d to start now
<AlanBell> I broke it a couple of days ago and couldn't be bothered to fix it
<davmor2> AlanBell: in the hud type Ubuntu Help, which is available via the desktop menu and what do you get?
<AlanBell> well not sure I have got a desktop yet
<AlanBell> not looking good :/ black screen with a mouse cursor
<davmor2> AlanBell: give it a second
<davmor2> I got that too
<AlanBell> hdd activity still
<AlanBell> bother, nothing
<davmor2> gord: I got to say the hud is a lot faster than it was but is still as comical with it's fuzzy matching
<AlanBell> does it still take options away if you get them right?
<davmor2> AlanBell: check you have the magic package of ubuntu-desktop
<AlanBell> I just did, already the latest version
<davmor2> AlanBell: nope I just typed in enable wireless and it's there which is exactly as it is
<davmor2> AlanBell: it also gave me connect to hidden network and create a new network
<zleap> wow http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/index.html
<zleap> advert for unity 3.5 :)
<AlanBell> guest login doesn't work, just gives me the wallpaper with a mouse cursor
<AlanBell> top tip, when logged into a broken laptop using ssh -X from another computer, don't run untity --replace and expect it to use :0 on the remote end
<zleap> or is that a different unity
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: or set DISPLAY before trying
<AlanBell> yeah, well I know that *now*
<AlanBell> unity, y u no start?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: gord's fault
<AlanBell> o hai there most of a desktop, nice to see you again
<MartijnVdS> windowmaker  --replace&
<jacobw> evening
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/846369
<AlanBell> any opinions on what that might be?
<AlanBell> that is the output of unity --verbose --log unity.log
<jacobw> the libraries are in your home dir?
<AlanBell> I really don't know
<AlanBell> well, no they are not
<jacobw> i guess you try running a find for the basenames to see if they exist at some other place in the filesystem
<AlanBell> but why is it looking there, I deleted /home/alan/.compiz-1
<AlanBell> I don't know what the glib build stuff is relating to either
<AlanBell> the plugins are in /usr/lib/compiz
<jacobw> make a symlink .compiz-1 â /usr/lib/compiz
<jacobw> i don't know how compiz knows where its libraries are
<jacobw> but perhaps if you can start it, it'll be easier to find out
<AlanBell> I just made a new user called testuser and did the same thing http://paste.ubuntu.com/846381
<AlanBell> I guess it looks for overrides in ~/.compiz-1
<AlanBell> I have tried removing compiz-core and reinstalling from there, I think the glib stuff is the problem but I have no idea what that means or where to start with it
<davmor2> Moo
<zleap> moo
<davmor2> czajkowski: how was your journey home
<czajkowski> davmor2: no bad
<davmor2> czajkowski: good good
<czajkowski> am pooped
<davmor2> czajkowski: go to sleep
<CTtechguy> sleep?  it's Friday night!!
<davmor2> CTtechguy: it's her first week at canonical trust me she needs it
<CTtechguy> ohh Congrats czajkowski I did not know
<AlanBell> okies I have a broken glib in /usr/local/share/glib-2.0
<AlanBell> can I just delete stuff in /usr/local/share?
<jacobw> you can move it somewhere else
<djbenny> evening
<AlanBell> good plan
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye gonna watch some tv in bed
<czajkowski> too tired for dinner
<czajkowski>  nn
<davmor2> nn czajkowski
<gord> AlanBell, deleting/moving anything in /usr is a really really bad idea
<gord> especially glib
<AlanBell> gord: in /usr/local?
<Cameron_> ah thank you AlanBell
<Cameron_> sorry for such a slow reply lol
<gord> AlanBell, depends why you have things in /usr/local
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> gord: well I may have been compiling some unity stuff
<AlanBell> but now I want the new stuff from the repos to work
 * popey tickles cking 
<cking> hiya popey
<djbenny> hey
<jacobw> hi benny
<AlanBell> oh bother :(
<AlanBell> I think I do have the right version of glib running, 2.31.16
<popey> wassup?
<AlanBell> broke unity3d quite hard :(
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/846369
<AlanBell> doesn't start for a guest user or a fresh user I set up
<ali1234> i don't see anything unusual in that paste
<ali1234> GLib errors are very common and don't usually stop a program from running
<ali1234> for example, i get about 100 of them whenever i run any gtk program from the terminal
<ali1234> and the debugging stuf is just... debugging stuff
<AlanBell> oh ok
<AlanBell> any suggestions on what to do?
<ali1234> report a bug
<ali1234> then wait for fixes on monday
<ali1234> and in future, never run updates on friday afternoon
<AlanBell> this has been broken for a few days, I was hoping the update today would fix it, but it didn't
<ali1234> it's probably something you've done then
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> so what have you done?
<ali1234> have you tried deleting /usr/local yet?
<AlanBell> some of it
<ali1234> not good enough. move the whole thing
<AlanBell> anything that looked like it might be something related to unity or glib
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> still no joy. when I run a guest user session it seems compiz starts and I can use compiz enhanced zoom with super+mousewheel which isn't a default setting
<AlanBell> the unity plugin doesn't load though, it is as if there is a set of compiz defaults somewhere that is wrong
<ali1234> i don't really see how that is possible... but maybe
<popey> zoom is a default setting
<ali1234> yeah i thought it was too
<ali1234> it's only disabled if you use unity because it clashes horribly
<popey> (I have it enabled on both of my computers and never manually addit it)
<ali1234> wait hang on
<ali1234> it works here
<AlanBell> oh, I always have to set the bindings for it because unity nicks super
<ali1234> so it doesn't clash any more
<ali1234> good stuff
<ali1234> of course holding down super blocks your view with the silly keyboard help thing
<ali1234> but other than that it works
<AlanBell> yeah, I turn that off
<ali1234> it seems to even work correctly with multiple monitors now
<ali1234> how do i prevent super from revealing the launcher?
<AlanBell> it is one of the settings for the unity plugin
<ali1234> great
 * AlanBell grabs a daily live cd
<popey> bug 932718
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 932718 in unity (Ubuntu) "Keyboard overlay gets in the way when zooming" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932718
<popey> bug 925215
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 925215 in unity "keyboard shortcuts overlay and alt-tab show wrong background in the expo view." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925215
<ali1234> shouldn't that be a design bug?
<ali1234> well i'm glad to see ezoom back anyway
<ali1234> it's the only reason to use a composited desktop
<ali1234> without it, you're just making my computer slower for no reason
<AlanBell> top tip, go to the mouse position polling plugin and set it to 1
<ali1234> what does that do?
<popey> i dont touch compiz settings
<AlanBell> makes ezoom panning update every frame and look smooth
<ali1234> i just set "key to show launcher" to none
<AlanBell> rather than pointlessly waiting 40ms to update
<ali1234> ezoom is already smooth enough
<AlanBell> there is no performance impact on making it smoother
<ali1234> ok then
<AlanBell> give it a go, I have submitted a patch to set it to be the default
<ali1234> doesn't make much difference here
<ali1234> i assume 40 = 40 msec
<AlanBell> anything under 15ms would be an update every frame, but apparently because canonical made some changes to compiz and the gtk mainloop there is no performance difference now
<popey> "canonical made some changes" to?
<ali1234> compiz can't go higher than 30 FPS on nvidia
<AlanBell> try setting it to something big to make the difference obvious
<popey> oh, to compiz
<popey> you do know the compiz maintainer works for us?
<AlanBell> popey: to compiz
<AlanBell> so why do the people in #compiz hate canonical?
<ali1234> because canonical pays to get their bugs fixed with priority?
<AlanBell> well the impression I got was that they were very disappointed that canonical broke a load of stuff, the mainloop changes were a bad thing, unity is buggy, the dependency problems in unity between cube and wall are because unity broke it etc. etc.
<ali1234> yeah sounds about right
<ali1234> compiz was pretty good until it became "the thing that makes unity work"
<AlanBell> and canonical have made no visible contribution or fixes to compiz, other than unity which is just for ubuntu
<ali1234> in particular, the version of compiz that accompanied the unity release in natty had several serious regressions
<AlanBell> by the sound of it they have basically given up on the compiz that ubuntu is using and they are going to go play with wayland instead
<gord> pretty much all the fixes and work on compiz these days is canonical sponsored, atm we have three guys working on compiz alone, not unity
<AlanBell> yeah, I may have come across some pretty grumpy compiz people
<gord> most people stopped working on compiz a long time ago, with gnome using mutter, kde using kwin4 and unity using (at the time) mutter, compiz was all set to die
<AlanBell> soreau, is that a canonical person?
<gord> no idea, i know real names not internet made up names
<AlanBell> Scott Moreau
<gord> don't think so
<AlanBell> compiz is great
<ali1234> meh, it's ok
<ali1234> has some real problems with window focussing
<AlanBell> ok, the concept of using openGL to do an accellerated desktop with bling and fastness is great
<ali1234> and it doesn't really work with the most commonly used and most advanced 3d driver
<ali1234> do we have stats on what % of people are using nvidia driver?
<ali1234> i bet it is the biggest share
<ali1234> maybe even over 50%
<gord> works fine with the nvidia driver here
<ali1234> uh hu.
<AlanBell> most laptops will be intel I would have thought
<ali1234> except for bug 877778
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 877778 in unity (Ubuntu) "Minimized window contents blank or invisible in window spread" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877778
<ali1234> supposedly this only affects nvidia driver
<ali1234> and then there's all the reports that you can't go above 30 fps with compiz and nvidia
<ali1234> even though anything 2d is blazingly fast
<ali1234> i'm now getting the actual windows as white rectangles and not just the previews
<ali1234> dunno if it is related
<ali1234> probably is. happens when i unminimize things
 * AlanBell contemplates a reinstall
<AlanBell> I have an encrypted home directory, is that going to break if I do a reinstall preserving home?
<popey> not if you have a copy of the key
<popey> the one it tells you to write down
<popey> cryptfs-unwrap-passphrase   if you dont have it noted
<popey> er eecryptfs-unwrap-passphrase
<AlanBell> I did print it out somewhere
<popey> oh jeez
<popey> ecryptfs-unwrap-passphrase
<popey> i hope not to have to go back to nvidia video cards
 * AlanBell boots back into the hdd
<AlanBell> I do like that lightdm now understands dual monitors
<popey> what happens?
<AlanBell> you get password prompt on one of them, ubuntu logo on the other, and both monitors filled at full resoltuion
<AlanBell> before it did mirrored screens with vertical letterboxing
<ali1234> not on nvidia driver it didn't
<ali1234> on nvidia driver you get a totally normal login screen on the first monitor, and a black screen on the others
<ali1234> you can move the mouse onto the other screens though, so there's no reason it couldn't draw something on them, in principle
<AlanBell> ok, I have my ecryptfs password
<AlanBell> right, reinstall time
<AlanBell> backups are for wimps right?
<AlanBell> looking good so far, found the magic nuke everything but /home option
<AlanBell> oh sweet, I like the "take photo" thing in the installer
<ali1234> i think my 20Q is broken
<ali1234> i was thinking of toothpaste and it came up with "poop"
<ali1234> apparently poop has writing on it
<davmor2> So who'd of thunk that empathy would get better at dealing with irc
<brobostigon> is it possible, to do an ubuntu install, to an sd card, from debian, and have that sd card install, behave and be like a normal hdd install, ?
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: yes
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: how ?
<gordonjcp> assuming your SD card reader behaves like a normal disk
<gordonjcp> and isn't for example like mine, which behaves as an MMC device
<popey> debootstrap
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: it does, yes.
<ali1234> sd cards are quite unbelievably slow
<ali1234> and also they wear out fast as well
<ali1234> and get surprisingly hot too
<AlanBell> brobostigon: I have a computer that boots from SD card
 * brobostigon looks up popey's idea.
<AlanBell> I just installed ubuntu server on it, works great
<ali1234> but apart from those things it will behave no different than any other usb disk, if it is connected on usb
<brobostigon> AlanBell: how did you do it? as popey suggested?
<AlanBell> the computer boots from that and also has 3TB of spinning rust, which is mostly not spinning
<ali1234> if it isn't connected on usb you will need to put the bootloader on a different device
<brobostigon> ali1234: i intend to put grub onto the sd card, so solves that issue.
<AlanBell> brobostigon: I think I basically just booted off a CD and installed to the USB
<AlanBell> all that computer does is run irssi in screen, and accept backups from other places
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, i will have to try that, i have done that for a haiku install.
<AlanBell> when a backup comes in the hdd spins up
<brobostigon> i see.
<popey> why do you want to do it from debian?
<popey> why not just put ubuntu iso on a usb stick, boot off that and install onto the sd from that?
<brobostigon> popey: as that is the running system, i have here, and was my immediate thought. yes, that is mayb a better idea.
<AlanBell> you can also do it with virtualbox or other virtualisation, boot off a .iso file and install to the sd if you can map that into something virtualbox thinks is a drive
<popey> "if"
<AlanBell> yeah, I have done that to a physical hdd before
<AlanBell> pass through device or something i think it is called
<popey> ahh
<popey> usb stick seems easiest to me
<brobostigon> i have done something similer, , ran a haiku .iso, in qemu, and opened parition access, and then let the live system, in qemu, to install to another partition.
<AlanBell> agreed
<brobostigon> agreed.
<AlanBell> my reinstall is now restoring previously installed packages which sounds nice
<brobostigon> i have 12.04 on live usb here, so that would work.
<AlanBell> I might be wrong but I think my SD card writes a lot faster than it reads
<brobostigon> and a class 10, should be even better,
<AlanBell> yeah mine is a class 10
<AlanBell> the class rating only applies to write speed
<brobostigon> ah.
<AlanBell> it is about how fast the camera/camcorder can fling data at it
<gord> i had a class 6 sd card at one point, couldn't handle 720p mjpeg writing to it
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, i thought it applied to both write and read,
<AlanBell> I am open to being proved wrong about this
<AlanBell> the class 10 card I am using has a "gosh has it written that whole ISO already or gone wrong" kind of speed to it
<ali1234> class ratings on SD cards are pretty much worthless
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<siamese> night
<brobostigon> night siamese
<jacobw> \o/ bones
<AlanBell> yay, reinstall just finished
<AlanBell> erk
<AlanBell> error invalid arch independent elf magic
<AlanBell> grub rescue>
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-18
<AlanBell> !chroot
<lubotu3> A chroot is used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit applications in a 64bit environment - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
<AlanBell> !grub2
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<popey> did you install i386 over the top of amd64 or vice versa AlanBell ?
<AlanBell> nope
<AlanBell> 64 over 64
<AlanBell> doesn't like me installing grub :/
<daftykins> D:
<AlanBell> I booted to live USB, and did sudo apt-get install grub-efi-amd64
<AlanBell> then sudo mount /dev/sda1/ /mnt
<AlanBell> then sudo grub-install --recheck --root-directory=/mnt /dev/sda
<AlanBell> and I get told
<AlanBell> error: cannot find a device for /mnt (is /dev mounted)
<AlanBell> and /mnt doesn't look like an EFI partition
<daftykins> how does EFI relate to partitions? i'd expect MBR/GPT in that context
<AlanBell> dunno
<AlanBell> back to a grub rescue prompt
<hamitron> tried chrooting to /mnt?
<AlanBell> then what?
<hamitron> dunno
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> installing grub like ya do
<hamitron> to mbr
 * hamitron uses lilo
<hamitron> just a brain fart that is of little use :/
<popey> AlanBell: why are you installing grub-efi-amd64?
<AlanBell> I have no idea
<popey> ok, this is what I do to install grub...
<popey> (did it this week on my thinkpad)
<popey> lets note this...
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/GrubChrootThink
<popey> bah
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/GrubChrootThing
<popey> stupid etherpad
<popey> that works then AlanBell âº
<AlanBell> lets see, I think I already did that
 * AlanBell boots up
 * AlanBell looks at a grub rescue prompt
<popey> delightful
<popey> do you have the usb stick still in?
<AlanBell> nope
<popey> can you do ls (hd0,0)/
<AlanBell> error: no such partition
<AlanBell> ah, interesting
<popey> ok, so do you have mutliple disks in this thing?
<popey> its sdb or something?
<AlanBell> ls tells me there is (hd0,msdos1)
<popey> sorry, my bad
<popey> ls (hd0,1)
<popey> ls (hd0,1)/
<AlanBell> that is my files
<popey> interesting
<AlanBell> boot is in there
<popey> can you boot to the grub menu by holding shift?
<popey> any kernel boot lines look odd?
<AlanBell> ok, did set prefix=(hd0,1)/boot/grub, then insmod(hd0,0)/boot/grub/linux.mod and got that elf error
<AlanBell> holding shift makes no difference, straight to the rescue prompt
<directhex> so which partitions do you have, exactly?
<AlanBell> (hd0,1) and swap
<AlanBell> oh sorry, mistype
<AlanBell> insmod(hd0,1)/boot/grub/linux.mod
<popey> i still think you have a mixed 32-bit/64-bit setup
<AlanBell> this has always been 64
<popey> ok
<directhex> it is also caused when the version of grub in the mbr is not the version of grub in /boot
<AlanBell> had some :i386 packages for skype or something, but I uninstalled those earlier
<popey> but we just reinstalled grub from a chroot of the install
<popey> so they should be the same
<directhex> <AlanBell> error: cannot find a device for /mnt (is /dev mounted) ?
<AlanBell> directhex: yeah, that was me not doing the chroot properly
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/GrubChrootThing
<popey> root@ubuntu:/# grub-install /dev/sda
<popey> Installation finished. No error reported
<directhex> AlanBell: so this disk, sda, only has one partition, sda1 ?
<popey> worked later..
<AlanBell> it has sda1 which is all the data, sda2 which is an extended container and sda5 which is swap
<directhex> so sda1 is the only relevant partition
<AlanBell> yes
<directhex> how large is the disk?
<AlanBell> 320GB
<directhex> hm
<AlanBell> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-grub/2011-08/msg00008.html
<AlanBell> that seems relevant but I am not sure how to do it
<popey> thats what we did
<popey> grub-install /dev/sda
<popey> file a bug in ubiquity for a start
<popey> the fact that an install over the top has rendered it useless is worrying
<AlanBell> Bug #934614
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 934614 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "reinstall of precise breaks grub with invalid arch independent ELF magic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/934614
 * AlanBell goes to bed :(
<popey> â¹
<DJones> \o/ Precise VM updated
<popey> brave âº
<DJones> Not so brave, its only in virtualbox
<DJones> Not as if its a "real" install
<DJones> Although after seeing the mailing list today & comments in here, I didn't expect it to work
<hamitron> this is 12.04?
<DJones> Yes
<hamitron> !precise
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) will be the sixteenth release of Ubuntu. Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784 - Blueprints at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
<hamitron> ah yeh
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> 16th already
<shauno> MartijnVdS: stuff like that makes me feel old and boring.  it used to be "wow, I can't believe we're half way thru the month already.  where did it go?"
<shauno> now I just do the math and figure out how many days until payday
<shauno> wait, it's not the 16th, you're talking about something else.  nm :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: 16th Ubuntu release
<MartijnVdS> shauno: still.. 8 years
 * MartijnVdS would never have guessed, in that NH Hotel in Mataro ;)
<MartijnVdS> (One of the?) first "UDS" (it wasn't called that) ever: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/4028038769/in/set-72157622499451161/
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> so, unbricking my laptop today
<MooDoo> morning alan
<MooDoo> AlanBell: how you brick it in the first place?
<AlanBell> did a precise re-install over the top of my precise install
<AlanBell> now boots to a grub rescue prompt
<MooDoo> ooops
<AlanBell> and grub-reinstall from a chroot looks like it works but doesn't
<AlanBell> bug 934614
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 934614 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "reinstall of precise breaks grub with invalid arch independent ELF magic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/934614
<AlanBell> linux.mod: ELF 64-bit LSB relocatable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped
<AlanBell> is that the ELF magic I wonder?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ELF magic is a recognisable part of the header of the ELF file, I guess
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: objdump \o/
<AlanBell> how do I do that?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: objdump -x file.elf
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: could it be a 32/64-bit mismatch?
<AlanBell> well I don't think so, this laptop has never been near 32 bit
<MartijnVdS> linux.mod:                   ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped
<MartijnVdS> ^ that's /boot/grub/linux.mod on my 64-bit 12.04 machine
<AlanBell> O.o
<MartijnVdS> $ sha1sum linux.mod
<MartijnVdS> d52bc34db1ea4756a757a96dfd22ae890cc3fff0  linux.mod
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/847023/
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I have version 1.99-14ubuntu2 of grub-common, grub2-common, grub-pc and grub-pc-bin
<AlanBell> 904f500fa3683d6469b836aa2df114c072d97a59  linux.mod
<AlanBell> grub-install (GRUB) 1.99-14ubuntu2
<MartijnVdS> hmmmm
<MartijnVdS> sounds like you have some corruption
<AlanBell> not sure about that
<AlanBell> you have Intel 80386
<AlanBell> I have x86-64
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: $ dpkg --print-architecture
<MartijnVdS> amd64
<MartijnVdS> This is a 64-bit install. But grub is 32-bit :)
<AlanBell> amd64 on the live USB I have booted from (the one I reinstalled)
<AlanBell> I have 64bit grub :/
<MartijnVdS> StrÃ¤nge
<AlanBell> well I have 64bit grub modules
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: can you pastebin: $ dpkg -l \*grub\*
<AlanBell> I suspect the boot sector is looking for 32bit modules or something, does that make sense?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: (on the target system)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that's what's happening, I guess -- 64-bit mode is harder to initialize than 32-bit
<AlanBell> in a chroot?
<MartijnVdS> in the chroot
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you might have an EFI version of Grub installed.. that has to be 64-bit because EFI tends to run in 64-bit mode
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: the other option is grub-pc which is the "old-style" PC booting (boot sector, etc.)
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/847027/
<MartijnVdS> that's exactly what I have
<AlanBell> so how do I do grub-pc?
<MartijnVdS> Bind-mount /proc /sys and /dev into the chroot
<AlanBell> yup, done that
<MartijnVdS> then in the chroot, do "grub-install /dev/sda"
<MartijnVdS> or whatever drive
<AlanBell> Installation finished. No error reported.
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> then the boot-sector bit's bits should match with the /boot bits
<AlanBell> but we did that before
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: hmm..
<AlanBell> what is the grub-pc bit??
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's "PC booting" support for Grub
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: (as opposed to EFI booting, or some kind of exotic ARM booting)
<AlanBell> so what package provides /boot/grub/linux.mod? there is a dpkg command to find that I think
<MartijnVdS> dpkg -S
<MartijnVdS> ah, grub copies it I think
<AlanBell> dpkg -S /boot/grub/linux.mod
<AlanBell> dpkg-query: no path found matching pattern /boot/grub/linux.mod.
<MartijnVdS> from /usr/lib/grub/
<AlanBell> root@ubuntu:/usr/lib/grub# ls
<AlanBell> grub-mkconfig_lib  i386-pc  update-grub_lib  x86_64-efi
<MartijnVdS> which only contains an i386-pc subdir on my machine
<MartijnVdS> dpkg -S the EFI dir?
<AlanBell> grub-efi-amd64-bin
<MartijnVdS> remove that :)
<MartijnVdS> then do the grub-install again
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/847030/
<AlanBell> lost my grub-install
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: do you still have the 'grub-pc' package?
<MartijnVdS> because /usr/sbin/grub-install is in that package
<AlanBell> installing it now
<AlanBell> ooh, this looks interesting, aubergine screen
<MartijnVdS> ah wait.. I only saw the top bit of the pastebin
<AlanBell> will install to all of them
<MartijnVdS> you need:
<MartijnVdS> grub-common, grub2-common, grub-pc and grub-pc-bin
<MartijnVdS> grub-efi* you probably don't need
<MartijnVdS> unless on a mac or a VERY new PC
 * MartijnVdS has to go, good luck fixing it :)
<AlanBell>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/847033/
<MartijnVdS> partitionless disk?
<AlanBell> no, it has partitions
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: popey knows a lot about booting :)
<AlanBell> yeah, popey was helping last night
<AlanBell> I think this may have done something
<AlanBell> I now have 80386 module in /boot/grub
<AlanBell> reboot time, see you on the other side o/
 * AlanBell adds 1 to the number of beers owed to MartijnVdS \o/
<popey> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<brobostigon> morning popey
<popey> ahhhh, good spot MartijnVdS
<AlanBell> yay, I now have unity3d working again
<AlanBell> that was *epic*
<brobostigon> :) \o/
<AlanBell> with unity 5.4 and the still slightly nuts HUD
<Myrtti> ho hum
<Myrtti> trying desperately to wake up enough to pay attention to what I'm writing and what others are doing
<popey> AlanBell: so the only screw up was you installing grub-efi âº
<AlanBell> not convinced, it broke itself and I started badly trying to fix it
<AlanBell> I had no intention whatsoever of going anywhere near grub
<AlanBell> and anyhow, why couldn't that be safe anyway?
<popey> because you dont have an efi machine
<popey> and for efi you need another partition which is usually fat for the boot stuff to live in
<popey> which is probably why you got dropped to grub rescue, because it couldn't find the next stage on a fat part
<popey> s/efi machine/efi install/
<AlanBell> it didn't like the look of /boot/grub/linux.mod
<AlanBell> because the ELF format was 64bit
 * popey pokes gord  with mame
<popey> bug 934921
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 934921 in unity (Ubuntu) "HUD should ignore ALT keypress when in (full screen) games" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/934921
<popey> its like on windows when you accidentially hit the windows key and the start menu pops up
<czajkowski> me has no hud
<czajkowski> and no unity 3d just unity 2d
<czajkowski> morning all
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<Myrtti> WHEE, 3 3D printers!
<anonymousinuk> anyone in?
<brobostigon> o/
<anonymousinuk> whats the purpose of this room?
<Myrtti> Ubuntu discussion, Ubuntu UK discussion, UK discussion and discussion, in various different percentages and timespans
<anonymousinuk> i guessed the topic where is all the chat ?
<anonymousinuk> am i missing something?
<popey> we chat when there is something to chat about âº
<anonymousinuk> lol
<popey> if someone comes in and asks a support question for example
<popey> or if people already here want to discuss something
<popey> !logs
<lubotu3> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<popey> you can see from the logs how much discussion happens
<Myrtti> I want a 3D printer :-<
<Myrtti> why are they so expensive?
<anonymousinuk> soz im ubunto newbie
<popey> Myrtti: yeah, they do look fun
<Myrtti> I have no idea what I'd do with one but I still want one
<popey> seen the one based on the DLP?
<anonymousinuk> im a builder id love to print a house!
<popey> http://3dlprint.com/
<popey> hah
<anonymousinuk> so u guys r in multiple chat rooms im huessing?
<Myrtti> popey: I just heard about it
<Myrtti> one of the 3D printer operators mentioned it
<Myrtti> there's one Ultimaker or whatever, one reprep and one bigger one here
<brobostigon> anonymousinuk: i am in 16, on 4 different irc networks.
<popey> yes anonymousinuk
<anonymousinuk> lol ok brobos gis a few decent ones (no offense meant!)
 * popey shrugs
<popey> I'm only in about 90, but a lot are related to work
<brobostigon> that sentence makes no sense, please rephrase.
<brobostigon> anonymousinuk: that sentence makes no sense, please rephrase.
<popey> sure it does âº
<popey> anonymousinuk: is asking for more irc channels to chat in
<Myrtti> oh, it's a bigger reprep machine
<brobostigon> i didnt mean you popey
<popey> brobostigon: i know
<anonymousinuk> ok what i want is lots of txt chat to read cos im a toatal newbie
<popey> anonymousinuk: #ubuntu-offtopic is sometimes chatty
<popey> anonymousinuk: #ubuntu is for technical support, not chat, but it can be busy
<anonymousinuk> only jus managed to get this xchat running using terminal (took me days)
<anonymousinuk> u guys get paid for this?
<brobostigon> no
<popey> not on a saturday âº
<MooDoo> it's all about community :D
<popey> anonymousinuk: a few of us work for Canonical on Ubuntu.
<MooDoo> a few of us want to work for Canonical on Ubuntu :)
<popey> anonymousinuk: how did you come to be using ubuntu?
<anonymousinuk> was sik to death of locked up windows machines
<popey> understandable
<anonymousinuk> my son has a laptop with netintelligence ubunto helped me with that i had no support from misco or netintelligence and everytime i wanted help it was gonna cost me arm n a leg jus for the phonecall
<anonymousinuk> this ubunto looks good and so FREE!!
<anonymousinuk> y do we have windows thrust in our faces
<popey> heh
<anonymousinuk> its so not user ''friendly''
<MooDoo> people grow up with it in schools, offices etc...until you get fed up and go looking for alternatives it's all you'll know
<anonymousinuk> can u guys help with aircrack-ng tool?
<MooDoo> do you need to crack a key?
<popey> help in what way?
<gordonjcp> anonymousinuk: you'd be better asking in a channel more specific to aircrack
<popey> I agree with gordonjcp âº
<gordonjcp> there's a lot involved
<anonymousinuk> ok is there a chat room for everything?!
<gordonjcp> possibly
<gordonjcp> but these are IRC channels
<gordonjcp> "chat rooms" are something quite different
<anonymousinuk> ok gordon explain pls
<gordonjcp> wasn't there a patch for network manager years ago that give the option to enter a WEP key, or just crack it
<popey> no idea
<anonymousinuk> yes ive read lots about that
<gordonjcp> back when people still used WEP keys
<popey> anonymousinuk: whats the specific issue you have with aircrack?
<anonymousinuk> in my search
<anonymousinuk> damn y my keyboard barking at me
<anonymousinuk> k
<gordonjcp> that said a certain large supermarket in the UK that shall remain nameless still uses 64-bit WEP keys for its mobile tills
 * popey wanders off to make lunch
<gordonjcp> with the same key across all stores
<brobostigon> ouch. wow
 * gordonjcp used to do tech support for IBM, who supported the kit in Nameless Supermarket
<gordonjcp> horrifying
<gordonjcp> they could at least use 128-bit WEP
<brobostigon> agreed.
<gordonjcp> Every Little Helps, after all
<brobostigon> agreed.
 * AlanBell figures out a great libnotify bug
<AlanBell> Bug #935131
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 935131 in libnotify (Ubuntu) "if the rightmost screen is not as high as the aggregate rectangle notifications are off screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/935131
<AlanBell> I have been wondering for about 6 months why my notifications were broken
<AlanBell> nom http://akafrancie.posterous.com/taekwon-cookie-or-two
<mattt> wewt
<directhex> i keep finding myself surprised when it turns out cross-platform indie games are doin' it with mono
<directhex> http://blendogames.com/atomzombiesmasher/
<bigcalm> Is there a list of packages ready for 12.04?
<directhex> ?
<bigcalm> Or rather, packages available
<bigcalm> When I 1st tried 12.04, things like skype weren't ready
<directhex> http://mirror.ox.ac.uk/sites/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz ?
<bigcalm> Not a human readable list then
<ali1234> isn't skype in the partner repo? : http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/partner/binary-amd64/Packages.gz
<directhex> it's hard to make 36000 entries human-readable
<penguin42> bigcalm: You can search on packages.ubuntu.com
<bigcalm> penguin42: thank you
<ali1234> packages.ubuntu.com doesn't include the partner repo
<ali1234> therefore you won't find skype searching there
<penguin42>  <sigh> that would be too easy
<bigcalm> Skype was an example. This is good enough for me at the moment :)
<penguin42> bigcalm: Partner stuff tends to bubble along nearer the end for new releases
<ali1234> the partner repo is the only place you will really find missing packages in +1
<ali1234> the other repos are just clones of debian
<ali1234> packages don't go missing from them during the cycle and then later return. well, not unless there is a bug
<AlanBell> ali1234: I think it might be in the 32bit partner repo
<ali1234> yes, probably
<bigcalm> I have an invisible skype window, cool!
<AlanBell> all the business desktop remix stuff is 32bit only
<bigcalm> I can move it around the workspaces, but it's not visible otherwise
<bigcalm> (xfce)
<popey> bigcalm: we generally dont populate the partner repo till after the release
<popey> we may try and pre-fill it a bit this time
<penguin42> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/02/malicious-backdoor-in-open-source-messaging-apps-not-spotted-for-4-months.ars   - ouch
<ali1234> old skype still works fine on 12.04 btw
<ali1234> penguin42: i stopped reading when i saw "PHP"
<ali1234> is it a bug if i upgrade and all the third party packages from the previous version are still around?
<frodo_> any ubuntu users group in London?
<czajkowski> yes
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Its not what it looks like& - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/02/18/its-not-what-it-looks-like/
<frodo_> could i pls get some contact info  webpage or meeting places and times.
<czajkowski> frodo_: nothing has been organised
<gord> hrmm... can't get gnome to stop locking my screen after suspend
<czajkowski> if it does we post to the ubuntu uk mailing list
<czajkowski> frodo_: or we addd ti to the loco team portal on loco.ubuntu.com
<czajkowski> frodo_: where are you based?
<frodo_> czy  jestes z polski ? czajkowski
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> irish
<frodo_> so why the nik ?
<frodo_> thanks for the info
<czajkowski> frodo_: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk
<czajkowski> becasue it's my surname
<czajkowski> *because
<bigcalm> Because she's awesome
<bigcalm> Time for bacon sandwiches!
<frodo_> redhat or LPI Lunix certification , which are better ?
<zleap> Daviey, ho
<zleap> hi
<zleap> Daviey, hi
<zleap> sorry keyboard issues again
<popey> evening all
<popey> welcome back CTtechguy
<jacobw> frodo_: doing is better
<mattt> someone say bacon?
<jacobw> yes
<jacobw> about 12 hours out of phase
<frodo_> jacobw  yes  but to do Professionally , without certs nobody will let you touch their pro equipment
<jacobw> frodo_: i'm not so sure about that
<frodo_> Pls give me ideas cuz i need help , i  need to get some pro exprience,not just stuff at home ,for friends or at school .
<jacobw> frodo_: there's no difference between experience with linux at home or at work
<jacobw> frodo_: it's possible to learn networking and server applications using just virtual machines
<mattt> frodo_: what are you trying to accomplish?
<mattt> to learn good skills, or get a job?
<frodo_> get a job in the field .
<frodo_> recruiters want to know how many users you managed , what kind of gear you used
<frodo_> at home there are no deadlines ,no real cash on the line  etc .
<popey> zleap: just saw your mail to the list
<mattt> frodo_: well, everyone has to start somewhere
<popey> zleap: would love to come down but it's 4.5 hours on the train for me
<mattt> frodo_: get an entry-level position in support
<frodo_> even entry -level in support are hard to come by in  this economy ,anybody  volunteered to get experience?
<mattt> lots of open source projects have volunteer infrastructure teams
<popey> yup
<mattt> frodo_: may i direct you at my site?  :P  http://officespaced.co.uk/
<frodo_> thanks all
 * MartijnVdS will unbrick an old router using JTAG + Arduino tomorrow
 * MartijnVdS is scared :)
<jacobw> ah
<jacobw> interesting, let us know how it goes :)
<MartijnVdS> I will :)
<MartijnVdS> Someone wrote some hardcore bit-banging code, apparently :)
<MartijnVdS> it'll re-flash your firmware, one bit at a time 8-)
<jacobw> sounds slow
<diplo> Evening all
<jacobw> hey diplo :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: it is, but all I have to do is issue a 'clear this part of firmware' command
<MartijnVdS> then the bootloader will let me re-flash with proper firmware
<zleap> popey, thanks,
<zleap> yeah we are kinda out of the way,  i just thought I would ask
<zleap> p> Raspberry PI images available
<zleap> <zleap> http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads
<zleap> <zleap> if I try and extract I get an error message,  details here http://pastebin.com/tc6Egbtq
<zleap> posted original comments to another channel is anyone else having issues extracting raspberry PI images
<Daviey> zleap: you have one?
<zleap> no these are the images on the website
<zleap> release date 20th,  but the images are up
<Daviey> ahh
<zleap> Daviey, on a 2nd point as you're local are you able to help with my mailing list post about promoting Ubuntu / OSS
<popey> zleap: download unzips fine for me, check the md5sums
<zleap> ok
<popey> b06eedb928b33cd515f7b8edf77b7a64  debian6-17-02-2012.zip
<zleap> i do that in the same way as I check cd rom isos right
<zleap> now that as a right click option would be useful
<popey> gisomount - A utility for mounting and managing .iso images
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i meant more like right click, proerties and a button to calculate the md5sum
<zleap> popey, it only has a sh1 hash thing on the page
<zleap> with md5sum i get 32fcd4463f1cbc33a36ad462bcd40c95  debian6-17-02-2012.zip
<zleap> so assuming we are both doing the same thing looks like i have a bad download
<zleap> ah right click on it,  and i downloadedm, if I click on it i get taken to a page saying file is unavailble
<bigcalm_> Thought I'd give 12.04 on the SSD/laptop another go
<zleap> nite all
<dogmatic69> lately my pc is eating 8gigs of ram with no problems and its now using swap :/
<dogmatic69> anything I can do about this?
<gord> dogmatic69, run top, press m, you can see what is eating the memory
<dogmatic69> htop, most is java
<dogmatic69> so netbeans
<gord> thar she blows
<dogmatic69> it shows as 9% but like 20 processes
<gord> do you have say, twenty different windows open for it?
<dogmatic69> 2 files open
<gord> or have you launched it twenty times in one session?
<bigcalm[lappy]> Did you get the PHP only version of NetBeans, or one of the other versions with more language support?
<dogmatic69> just the empty shell and added what I needed
<dogmatic69> chrome about://memory == 5,072,588
<dogmatic69> :/
<directhex> java uses ridiculous amounts of RAM
<directhex> but let's all hate on mono and say it's a cheap java clone, oh yes Â¬_Â¬
<gord> wut
<roachy> dogmatic69: Any particular reason you're using netbeans....?  There are lots of lighter IDE's out there...
<dogmatic69> because it is the best one imo
<roachy> fair enough...I've fallen in love with Geany recently - but I'm not a heavy coder
<dogmatic69> I use geany for editing text files :P
<dogmatic69> netbeans has nice autocomplete and projects etc.
<dogmatic69> and does code formatting
<dogmatic69> I should maybe update it, that might help
<gord> i should convince bigcalm[lappy] to see the light and use vim someday
<bigcalm[lappy]> I use vim now and then
<bigcalm[lappy]> Other things work well enough for me, such as NetBeans
<bigcalm[lappy]> Though I would like whitespace chars to be displayed as dots, arrows and new line chars
<bigcalm[lappy]> USC crashes when I try to load a .deb
 * bigcalm[lappy] heads to the CLI
<bigcalm[lappy]> Arse. MySQL Workbench 64bit .deb for 11.10 doesn't install in 12.04 :)
<directhex> libmysqlclient is pretty abi unstabl;e
<madpup> hi all
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-19
<Azelphur> http://i.imgur.com/WVWxZ.png :D
<MartijnVdS> Woo
 * MartijnVdS soldered a serial console onto a router
<MartijnVdS> (and I'm now poking it usuing the Arduino USB<->serial board, aka FTDI Breakout)
<MartijnVdS> .. aaaand debricked \o/
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you?
<MartijnVdS> fine, just fixed an old WRT54GS router by soldering a serial port to it :)
<MartijnVdS> + poking at its serial console
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: good fun for a sunday
<MartijnVdS> yeah, apparently this is one of the most hackable routers
<MartijnVdS> http://www.allaboutjake.com/network/linksys/wrt54g/hack/
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
<MooDoo> hi AlanBell
<popey_> morning
<popey> thats better
<MooDoo> morning popey
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> mroning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
 * brobostigon notices vlc 2.0 in updates.
<MooDoo> *shock* ;)
<brobostigon> last version i noticed, was 1.1.*, so a pretty big version jump.
<MooDoo> oo yeah
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tottenham Court Road  18th February 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=93
<bigcalm[lappy]> Hi peeps :)
<bigcalm[lappy]> This is at least 20 quid cheaper than other sellers, do I trust this and buy? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Battery-Dell-Studio-1535-1536-1537-1555-1557-1558-PP33L-PP39L-7200mAh-9-Cell-/280754646502#vi-content
<popey> http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/power_biz/
<popey> i have bought from them, trustworthy
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9-Cell-Battery-Dell-Studio-1535-1536-1537-WU946-NEW-/400237906541?pt=UK_Computing_LaptopsAccessories_LaptopBatteries&hash=item5d3009ca6d
<popey> lolprice
<bigcalm[lappy]> Yeah
<bigcalm[lappy]> And that's 6600mAh. My link is for 7200mAh
<bigcalm[lappy]> It's a little confusing
 * bigcalm[lappy] plunges the take
<SuperEngineer> yum... bacon & egg sandwich for [late] brekkie - with just the right amonts of toomy sauce & mustard mixed
 * SuperEngineer noms
 * bigcalm[lappy] scoffs his superbly prepared pot noodle
<SuperEngineer> mmmm... that's better -belly now silenced, so - hi y'all o/
<Ruby> Good Afternoon UK!
<MooDoo> hullo
<Ruby> It's been awhile since I've listened to the podcast but I've got to say I like it a lot.
<Ruby> The tutorial on ardour was great too.
<AlanBell> hi Ruby
<Ruby> I'm a big ubuntu fan. :)
<Ruby> I hope I can get even better in the future. Ubuntu UK community is really good.
<MooDoo> yes it is :D
<Ruby> I've started my own podcast using Ubuntu thanks to all the helpful people.
<Ruby> So, what's new?
<AlanBell> 12.04 is new \o/
<Ruby> lol Great!
<Ruby> :)
<MooDoo> that's not released yet :p
<directhex> moo
<Ruby> I hope the search feature is fixed
<Pendulum> feature freeze was this past week, that's new :)
<Pendulum> Ruby: do you have any idea what your hook is going to be about why people should listen to your podcast rather than or along with the others that are out there?
<directhex> ooh, make it 50% ubuntu 50% something else
<directhex> like... cooking! or rock climbing tips!
<Ruby> haha great idea
<directhex> i get all my cooking advice from pc hardware forums.
<Ruby> I think it's hard to do a podcast just on Ubuntu
<Ruby> :)
<Ruby> I've got a podcast to help people learn English.
<Ruby> help Russians to be specific.
<Ruby> Pendulum, do you listen to the Ubuntu UK podcast?
<Pendulum> yes
<matti> I need help.
<matti> ;s
<Ruby> what's the problem matti?
<matti> With English :)
<Ruby> LOL
<Ruby> what's the problem?
<Ruby> I guess you aren't from the UK then eh?
<matti> No.
<matti> I mean, I do live here
<Ruby> oh ok
<Ruby> where are you from?
<matti> Ruby: From a country in central Europe that English people blame for everything nowadays :) </sarcasm>
<matti> Ruby: I guess, I am OK with the language.
<Ruby> hmmmmm
<MooDoo> matti: what scotland?
<Ruby> I'm sure you're great!
<MooDoo> ;) lol
<matti> MooDoo: HAHHAHA
<Ruby> LOL HAHAH
<matti> MooDoo: +1
<matti> MooDoo: Made my day ;]
<Ruby> You are from Greece maybe? That's not exactly central but hey lol
<matti> Ruby: No, form Poland.
<Ruby> ah ok.
<Ruby> I live in Russia now.
<matti> from*
<matti> Ruby: :)
 * matti is learning Japanese right now.
<matti> A lot of fun.
<Ruby> Yeah, sounds like it. Learning it because of the girls, right? :)
<MooDoo> ich ne san she etc yadda yadda yadda
<Pendulum> matti: my brother moved to Poland (from Scotland) in September :)
<matti> Pendulum: Did he? Impressive.
<matti> Pendulum: Whereabouts
<matti> ?
 * penguin42 tries to imagine Polish spoken in a deep scottish accent
<Pendulum> Warsaw. His UK visa was up and he couldn't find a job that would help him get a new one and his girlfriend is Polish so that's where they went.
<Ruby> Polish girls are cute for sure.
<Pendulum> He's now teaching English there as it's much easier to get a visa or work permit in Poland than the UK
<Ruby> I can't stand girls from back home (BIG and UGLY) :) lol
<Pendulum> (I'm American)
<brobostigon> afternoonings matti :)
<matti> MooDoo: ichi, ni, san, yon (shi is an equivalent, but used in different ways).
<MooDoo> matti: i know :) i can count to 10 :p
<Ruby> prevyet ribyata. Who said westerners don't speak foreign languages, see?
<Pendulum> Americans don't particularly have the prejudice against Poles so it wasn't a huge deal for him. That said, I think it was a definite sign of love that _she_ was willing to move back to Poland for him ;-)
<matti> MooDoo: 11 is simple. jyuuichi.
<MooDoo> matti: you only need up to 10 in karate ;) lol
<matti> MooDoo: 20 - nijyuu.
<matti> MooDoo: LOL
<matti> MooDoo: Haha
<matti> MooDoo: Actually, there are special shouts and phrases that Dojo can have in Japanese ;]
<matti> MooDoo: As your sensei about it ;]
 * AlanBell just found an Ubuntu 6.06 CD
<matti> AlanBell: Wooo...
<MooDoo> matti: i was the sensei about 8 years ago ;) lol
<Pendulum> AlanBell: retro :P
<matti> MooDoo: Oh ;p
<penguin42> AlanBell: Do the chickens like it?
<matti> Hi brobostigon
<MooDoo> matti: it's a hard language but i'd love to learn it, just so i can watch anime properly lol
<matti> Pendulum: Really? Need for visa for English?
<matti> MooDoo: Kanji tends to be a pain.
<Pendulum> matti: if you're an American who wants to stay more than 6 months, yes.
<matti> MooDoo: I can read Kana without a problem.
<matti> Pendulum: An.
<matti> Ah*
<matti> I've missed: "I'm American"
<Pendulum> :)
<matti> Pendulum: I do think, that American girls are nice. Very friendly. And some of them have cute accents.
<Ruby> No Pendulum American girls are fat and ugly
<Pendulum> tbh, with what the US requires Poles to do to get into the US, I'm surprised that Poland doesn't require the same for Americans.
<Ruby> they look like men, dress like men, and want to work the same jobs as men.
<directhex> generally they do
<directhex> most companies have reciprocal arrangements for abusive immigration policies
<Pendulum> Ruby: I'm not sure I'm the person you want to say that to.
<Ruby> When I talk to American girls I feel like I'm talking to men.
<Ruby> Not all girls* Pendulum.
<Ruby> I'm American too btw.
<Ruby> ;-)
<MooDoo> Ruby: i'm sorry ;) lol
<Pendulum> Why should girls talk any different from guys.
<Ruby> Exactly
<matti> Pendulum: No idea ;]
<Ruby> Feminism has destroyed women.
<matti> Pendulum: I have B1/B2 business visa for 10 years ;d
<Ruby> No difference between men and women and thus....
<Pendulum> Ruby: I'm female.
<Ruby> I don't mean the way they talk but act, dress, etc. :)
<matti> Pendulum: I am in love BTW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpuHSA_C43s
<Ruby> Pendulum. Not all women. I'm sure you're lovely!!!
<matti> Pendulum: And she has cute accent ;]
<matti> But, I only melt on the inside when an English girl has cute posh English accent.
<matti> So sexy... ;]
<Pendulum> Ruby: you can't have it either way. Either American girls are horrid or we're a mix of horrid and good, just like guys.
<Pendulum> bah, can't have it both ways
<matti> Go Europe ;p
<matti> \o/
<Pendulum> anyway, I'm going to go away before I say or do something that I will regret later.
<Ruby> Pendulum. Come to Russia. I'll take you on a tour
<matti> MooDoo: Start lessons ;]
<Ruby> :)
<matti> Ruby: Moscow is nice :)
<Ruby> Yeah. Nice and cold.
<Ruby> lol
<Ruby> Slavic women are great!
<Ruby> God save the queen and slavic women. haha
<AlanBell> can we dispense with the gender discussions please
<matti> ;p
<Ruby> Yes.
<Ruby> Sorry
<Ruby> Back to my podcast.
<AlanBell> lets talk about ubuntu or something :)
<Ruby> I believe Alan did that tutorial on ardour thank you very much
<MooDoo> Ruby: you never told us the url?
<Ruby> I am an English teacher in need of help
<Ruby> Over here in Russia, they make students learn very strict grammar rules which I often think native speakers don't really carefully follow. I'm conducting an experiment and would be very happy if someone could take part in it. I'm looking for native British speakers. I've already asked a bunch of Americans.
<AlanBell> Ruby: that would be popey
<Ruby> oh ok
<Ruby> If he has a paypal account, I'd send him 15 dollars.
<matti> AlanBell: I imagine that talking about Ubuntu whole day is rather tad boring.
<matti> AlanBell: And "community" is about people.
<matti> AlanBell: Other than that I do see your point.
<Ruby> I love Ubuntu and can almost talk about it all day. As long as unity doesn't come up
<AlanBell> indeed, but we don't need to throw around great big generalisations that are bound to make someone uncomfortable
<Ruby> If you want to look at generalizations and stereotypes which can be true. Check out my podcast
<Ruby> Go to youtube and type Rad Radio Western vs Russian women.
<AlanBell> so where is your podcast?
<AlanBell> you have a podcast on that??
<Ruby> i was like you guys until I came to Russia
<Ruby> I love America and I love the UK
<Ruby> but I needed work and moved.
<AlanBell> !ru
<lubotu3> ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð½Ð°Ð±ÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ /join #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ. | Pozhalujsta naberite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke.
<AlanBell> seen that channel too?
<Ruby> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-PK3wPhA2A
<Ruby> I need help
<matti> Oh nice .ru channel ;]
<Ruby> Yes.
<Ruby> Ð¯ Ð½Ðµ Ð·Ð´ÐµÑÑ ÑÐ°Ð´Ð¸ ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð¾
<Ruby> I'm not here for Russian.
<Ruby> I'm here because there is no linguist UK IRC channel and so I thought to ask people who share some common interests with me and might help out.
<AlanBell> good stuff, there is also #ubuntu-uk-podcast which is the channel of the podcast
 * SuperEngineer checks AlanBell 's grammar  bending ;)
<Ruby> Ok, well if anyone could help I'd be appreciative.
<Ruby> http://www.filedropper.com/exercises
<AlanBell> flexible grammer betters language
<Ruby> Tell that to Russians that love correctness.
<AlanBell> s/that/who/
<Safiyyah> sorry guys I updated my system this morning, and now flash doesn't work. googled workarounds and nothing is working
<Ruby> what exactly is your flash problem?
<Safiyyah> has anyone else got the same issue, or solved it. I even tried the latest flash 11
<Ruby> Yes, I've had a similar problem before.
<Ruby> Are you 64bit or 32?
<Safiyyah> Ruby once installed, you tube works partially, everything else with flash complains that there is no flash installed.. 32 bit
<Ruby> what version of ubuntu
<Ruby> I've had a problem with flash before on firefox. Let me see if I can find the site that helped me.
<Safiyyah> it's not even working on chrome!
<Ruby> Yes, not surprising.
<Ruby> I believe what had happened to me is that somehow a free linux opensource version of flash was installed.
<Ruby> let me see if I can find that site.
<Ruby> What version of Ubuntu do you have?
<Safiyyah> oneiric
<Safiyyah> interestic to note that despite the s/w centre saying it's installed the files are not in /user/lib or /lib
<Safiyyah> it's like a fake installation!
<Safiyyah> okay is there a way to undo the last system update?
<Ruby> I don't remember what exactly I did. I remember that for some reason there was a plugin installed in firefox for a free version of flash (NOT ADOBE). I removed that and made sure that gnash and swfdec-mozilla was uninstalled.
<Ruby> I'm not sure how to help you but I don't have any problems with flash right now.
<Ruby> Well this channel has fallen silent. I guess no one is going to help me either. :)
<Safiyyah> okay, I will be back on this later
<Safiyyah> gotta get to the opticians
<Safiyyah> I have already spent 90 minutes on this, if all else fails, time to back up ad upgrade (again)
<Ruby> try looking at what I told you
<Ruby> soemthing is causing a conflict most likely
<Ruby> for some reason once I had firefox trying to use an open source version of flash
<Ruby> The reason why youtube is working is probably because youtube might have a html5 code in case flash fails or it's possible that open source flash works on youtube.
<Ruby> it won't run anything else though like the BBC
<Ruby> Can anyone recommend me an IRC channel where I can ask some British people a language question?
<Ruby> I need native British speakers.
<Safiyyah> Ruby there is no firefox conflict
<Safiyyah> I checked
<Safiyyah> thanx be back later
<SuperEngineer> I've been having to use the workaround for bug #868034 in 11.10 -  I want to put http://paste.ubuntu.com/848575/ into a laucher [assuming no fix in time for for 12.04] . Safe? If so, how?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 868034 in modemmanager (Ubuntu) "Huawei E220 and E1550 can't connect on Ubuntu 11.10" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868034
<AlanBell> why would you assume no fix in time for 12.04?
<AlanBell> ah, ok, not as simple as it sounds
<AlanBell> still, might get in
<exaem> Hello
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: ok, so to get an icon on the launcher you need to create a .desktop file for it
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: not an assumption but a lack of real ability to test - as in it worked on 11.10 beta, it worked on 11.10  run as live cd - it even worked after  11.10 installed [but just the once].  Then complete fail eversince
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: cool...  I assume it would pop a terminal and ask for pwd first?
<SuperEngineer> [assume/hope]
<AlanBell> use gksudo
<SuperEngineer> - wooo - you brilliant man, you!
 * SuperEngineer slaps wrist for forgetting gk!
<AlanBell> why don't we have a GUI for creating .desktop files I wonder
<SuperEngineer> +1
<SuperEngineer> [coz noone else has suggested / asked for?]
<AlanBell> you can put them in ~/.local/share/applications
<AlanBell> if you want them for one user only
<AlanBell> http://developer.gnome.org/integration-guide/stable/desktop-files.html.en
<SuperEngineer> good idea - I'm the only one on *this* pooter, seems like a ["normalised"] place to do so
<AlanBell> it is one of those things I could probably do, but can't be bothered to do because it really should be done in unity with a right click on an empty part of the launcher
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: *most definitely* +1
<AlanBell> so we wait for the design team to come up with the idea I guess
<AlanBell> well could mail the unity-design list I guess, no harm in that
<SuperEngineer> hmmmmmmmm
 * SuperEngineer tasks/begs  AlanBell  as he has far superior "clout"
<SuperEngineer> [not detracting from my own super powers, of course ;)
<daubers> lo
<cocoa117> anyone know how to use busybox version 1.13.3, it's tar program to exclude files?
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg07920.html I have no clout
<cocoa117> i can see in the manual exclude is available but i can't use it as tar -xvf abc.tar -exclude 'home/abc/*' -C /target
<cocoa117> it kept give error message saying it don't support it
<TheOpenSourcerer> cocoa117: long options are normally --long_option="\mypath\tofile"
<SuperEngineer> bbl - switching to 11.04 to try the above
<cocoa117> TheOpenSourcerer: i have also tried --exclude, it shows the same error message
<TheOpenSourcerer> without any spaces and with a "=" too?
<AlanBell> busybox tar might be a bit limited
<cocoa117> AlanBell, so tar in busybox won't do any exclude at all?
<moreati> cocoa117: in case it wasn't apparent, not that TheOpenSourcerer wrote that with 2 dashes. --exclude, not -exclude
<TheOpenSourcerer> To exclude a dir in tar in Ubuntu the switch would be --exclude='/my/path/to/exclude"
<ahayzen> AlanBell: Nice idea for the unity launcher .... could be nice to right click and 'Enable/Disable Auto-Hide" aswell?
<cocoa117> moreati, TheOpenSourcerer: i have tried both, --exclude, and -exclude none of them worked
<cocoa117> by the way, the Ubuntu version of tar is different from busybox tar
<TheOpenSourcerer> The lack of spaces and the "=" are important. This is the "standard" for long options. For short options it would typically be something like -x path, but of cousr -x is used elsewhere in tar ;-)
<moreati> cocoa117: that's true of most desktop distributions vs most embedded distributions/Android
<cocoa117> moreati, so how do you do tar exclude files in busybox?
<moreati> cocoa117: most desktop distros use GNU coreutils and Bash. Busybox is an independent project that combines a shell and some commands
<cocoa117> or it can't be done with the version i have
<moreati> cocoa117: I don't, never had the need
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2003-December/044410.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> cocoa117: Google? Try -X and a file with the exclude options listed in it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Although note that is from 2003 so treat it with a pinch of salt. But worth a try.
<cocoa117> TheOpenSourcerer: oh well, i guess 1.13.3 has bug then
<cocoa117> i have tried -X and didn't do anything
<popey> afternoon all
<cocoa117> i guess i just have to use Ubuntu liveCD for restore purpose
<moreati> cocoa117: what is the exact command line you're trying?
<ali1234> busybox commands are extremely cut down
<ahayzen> popey: Afternoon :)
<ali1234> it probably can't do what you want
<cocoa117> ali1234, i guess you are right, liveCD is my next stop
<moreati> http://busybox.net/downloads/BusyBox.html says the tar command has -X and --exclude
<moreati> but strangley it lists the options for tar without a - or -- prefix, whereas the others are listed with a prefix
<cocoa117> moreati, yes i have read that too, and i even checked with manual that match my busybox version number, 1.13.3, but when actually trying it, it doesn't work
<ali1234> check the source
<cocoa117> both -X and --exclude don't work
<cocoa117> never mind, guys, i just use liveCD
<ali1234> -X wants a file containing the list of files to exclude
<moreati> cocoa117: did you note that the argument to 'exclude' is a file to be excluded, whereas the argument to 'X' is a file _containing_ files to be excluded
<ali1234> just obtain a static tar and use that
<ali1234> that's what i do when encountering busybox fail
<cocoa117> moreati, ennnn, good point, and no i didn't
<moreati> cocoa117: Also I note early that you used -exclude 'home/abc/*'
<cocoa117> "X       File with names to exclude", ok so i have to give a file with content of folder to be excluded
<moreati> cocoa117: single quotes prevent wildcard expansion, at least in bash
<cocoa117> moreati, so what should i use in the busybox environment
<cocoa117> obvioursly it's not bash
<ali1234> you don't want the wildcard to be expanded there
<cocoa117> tar -xvf /mnt/abc.tar -exclude home/abc/* -C /target
<ali1234> how about this
<ali1234> mv home/abc home/foobarbackup
<ali1234> (untar)
<ali1234> rm -rf home/abc
<ali1234> mv home/foobarbackup home/abc
 * popey points AlanBell at bug 705007
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 705007 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity has no method to maintain properties of launchers" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705007
<penguin42> nice; 1st for the year - can't see my screen due to sunlight
<AlanBell> popey: ah, knew there was one somewhere, but nice to discuss on the list too
<AlanBell> !info alacarte
<lubotu3> alacarte (source: alacarte): easy GNOME menu editing tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.13.2-2ubuntu3 (oneiric), package size 52 kB, installed size 348 kB
<bigcalm[lappy]> Afternoon peeps :)
<popey> lo
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: how is the borked router?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: it works now
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: soldered serial pins to it, it had a serial console
<jacobw> ah, great ;)
<jacobw> i keep getting a ; when i want a :
<thomas__> hi
 * daubers smells like burnt plywood
<AlanBell> laser cut?
<daubers> yup
<Safiyyah> flash complains that there is no flash installed.. 32 bit, the software centre clearly has it ticked as working. there is nothing about a flash player Or gnash on the about plugins page....  anyone?
<Safiyyah> I was desperate enough to try and convert the rpm version, which came back with an error at installation. am blue!
<ahayzen> safiyyah: Which browser are you using?
<Safiyyah> i have both firefox and chrome
<ahayzen> does flash appear on the about:plugins in firefox?
<Safiyyah> they both issue the same message upon trying flash playback, and no flash is listed in the about:plugins on either of them
<Safiyyah> it is clearly installed thought
<Safiyyah> though*
<ahayzen> which flash plugin have you got installed?
<Safiyyah> it was working perfectly until the system update this morning
<Safiyyah> flash version is 11.1.102 or atleast that is what it says on the adobe page and the downloaded driver
<Safiyyah> On the s/w centre it says flash plugin 10 and then below that it says version 11
<ahayzen> i have 'Adobe Flash plug-in' installed rather than 'Adobe Flash Plugin 10'
<ahayzen> but i came as part of the ubuntu-restricted-extras
<Safiyyah> okay
<Safiyyah> let me purge then
<jacobw> does anyone know of a cd ripper that doesn't suck with multidisk albums?
<jacobw> i.e. not sound-juicer
<Safiyyah> ahayzen, thank you... got it going
<Safiyyah> yeiiiiiii
<Safiyyah> have a good evening all
<ahayzen> safiyyah: Yey ... what was the issue in the end?
<Safiyyah> I think the update I installed today conflicted with flash 10 and flash 11
<ahayzen> ok
<Safiyyah> going to finish these canerows on little princess' hair and add beads, waiting for dinner in the oven
<Safiyyah> have a good evening all thank you
<DJones> How do you access the cups server on a remote machine? 18:38 < Safiyyah> yeiiiiiii
<DJones> 18:38 < Safiyyah> have a good evening all
<DJones> 18:38 < ahayzen> safiyyah: Yey ... what was the issue in the end?
 * bigcalm[lappy] kippers DJones 
<DJones> rrs
<DJones> Grr even
<bigcalm[lappy]> DJones: have a look at port 9100 (iirc)
<bigcalm[lappy]> Possibly not though :)
<bigcalm[lappy]> Is cups running a web service?
<bigcalm[lappy]> Is it set to allow access outside of localhost?
<Safiyyah> DJones, I muddle through all cups issues thank god for the detailed brother linux website, I would be done for
<DJones> bigcalm[lappy]: I've tried http://x.x.x.x:631 with no sucess, told cupsd.conf to add listen x.x.x.x:631"
<bigcalm[lappy]> 631 seems to be the default port
<bigcalm[lappy]> Restart cupsd after the change?
<DJones> Added my username to the lpadmin group, but just get a Forbidden message via the web
<bigcalm[lappy]> Can you access it from localhost?
<DJones> yep, restarted
<DJones> Not tried from localhost
<bigcalm[lappy]> w3m, links2, lynx, etc
<bigcalm[lappy]> 9100 is the port for JetDirect on HP printers. This is what had me confused :)
<DJones> Hmmh, can access it via localhost:631 but not by ip address
<bigcalm[lappy]> Progress :)
<bigcalm[lappy]> Who needs whipping to fix bug 804662?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 804662 in jockey (Ubuntu) "jockey-gtk crashed with TypeError in _execute_child(): execv() arg 2 must contain only strings" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804662
<bigcalm[lappy]> Because it's not fixed for me :)
<DJones> bigcalm[lappy]: Fixed, Had to tick the allow remote administration box on the machine itself before I could connect via ip address from another machine
<bigcalm[lappy]> Ah
<bigcalm[lappy]> Well done that man :)
<bigcalm[lappy]> brb restart
<bigcalm[lappy]> Install an SSD so that you can reboot quickly ;)
<DJones> Or just never reboot
<bigcalm[lappy]> That's not really an option when playing with 12.04 :)
<bigcalm[lappy]> I wish minecraft worked
<DJones> I've only got 12.04 in a vm, so not the best place to try minecraft
<jacobw> desktop systems need rebooting
<zleap> hi is http://www.raspberrypi.org/ up or do people get a database error ?
<hamitron> zleap, up
<zleap> ok
<zleap> ah it is now,  thanks
<zleap> it was giving me a database error,
<zleap> geany looks good
<zleap> programming environment
<diplo> Evening all
<AlanBell> evening diplo
<diplo> So advice guys, going to order my vps at pay day, what version of ubuntu to install ?
<brobostigon> it is a server, so, lts, as i was recommended.
<diplo> Play with it for a month with 10.04 and then upgrade a few weeks into april once vps people have updated ?
<diplo> Just thinking 10.04 is stopping in 2013 April isn't it
<dwatkins> tmux is confusing in the way it splits its panes, but I like it.
<brobostigon> diplo: i will updating lts to lts, after 12.04 release, as it becomes new lts.
<dwatkins> I've been running 10.04 for a couple years now, it's been solid as a rock.
<diplo> Also debating about installing 12.04 on my D820 Lappy, any major gfx issues with 12 ?
<diplo> yeah i run 10.04 on a few servers already
<dwatkins> I'd be concerned about upgrading in case this caused issues with hardware drivers on my slightly old machine, but I imagine this is baseless paranoia.
<diplo> Can't decide whether to stick with 10 or to wait a month and upgrade to 12 before going live
<AlanBell> diplo: or dive straight in with 12.04
<dwatkins> Personally I'd prefer to stick with a well-established OS.
<AlanBell> what is the worst that could happen?
<brobostigon> diplo: depends on when the stuff it will provide will be needed.
<dwatkins> Each to their own, though - are there features of 12.04 you want?
<diplo> Image not supplied yet with Bitfolk ?
 * dwatkins high-fives brobostigon 
<daubers> diplo: If you go with bitfolk, andy tends to test installs of Ubuntu LTS versions a short while after release
<daubers> diplo: And he's quite nice about imagine peoples VPS's before upgrade if you ask nicely
 * brobostigon caustiously highfives dwatkins in return, somewjhat cluelessly.
<daubers> s/imagine/imaging
<diplo> dwatkins, 11.10 sucks on my laptop and heard lot's more polish in 12, don't use lappy that often so thought i could help post some bugs
<dwatkins> brobostigon: just that we wrote essentially the same thing
<brobostigon> dwatkins: ah, i see.
<diplo> daubers, cool sounds good
<diplo> I guess I may just tinker with 10 or chat to andy about 12 and do some testing for him if he wants :)
<diplo> Not set up an mta properly in years now
<diplo> going to be fun :)
 * daubers wonders if atmel does a textbook type thing
<dwatkins> diplo: how about setting up 10, saving an image of the disk in case you need to switch back fast, and they trying 12?
<diplo> Not used a VPS before, do they give you option to clone your image ?
<dwatkins> Not sure, probably not.
<diplo> :)
<dwatkins> Depends on what level of management you've selected, I imagine diplo.
<brobostigon> diplo: you send bitfolk, a support ticket, to make a temporery image of your vps.
<diplo> tbh, not fussed.. i think the first month it's going to be setting up and playing to make sure im safe before i move everything over
<diplo> no rush
<popey> Evening all!
<diplo> Evening
<brobostigon> evening popey
<dwatkins> diplo: I assume I don't need to mention backups ;)
<diplo> What was up with OMG popey  ?
<diplo> heh nah, I'm actually fairly good now adays, pushed new company i work for to actually start doing them :P
<diplo> I've never been that fussed about losing stuff
<brobostigon> dwatkins: bitfolk are unmanaged, so you do all the work yourself.
<diplo> Accept photos
<dwatkins> Is it possible to copy the entire root disk whilst it's running, so you could restore it later, or are there files open etc. which won't allow that?
<diplo> Well Mondo allows backup whilst running, never used it myself but my work place does
<dwatkins> I guess you just rsync and constrain yourself to one filesystem
<diplo> I think I'm going to use rsync, want to use it as offsite backup as well
<dwatkins> yeah, rsync makes sense, saves bandwidth once you've done a full image
 * bigcalm[lappy] eyes Unity
<bigcalm[lappy]> Additional Drivers says that the proprietary ATI driver is installed, but how do I check that it's in use?
<diplo> gkxinfo ?
<diplo> glx*
<diplo> something like that
<brobostigon> xorg's log in .var/log ?
<brobostigon> xorg's log in /var/log ?
<bigcalm[lappy]> Log says that it was loaded
<bigcalm[lappy]> Trying to find out if it's in use
<brobostigon> question answered.
<brobostigon> oh, ok,
<bigcalm[lappy]> No, question pointing at answer :P
<bigcalm[lappy]> Is there a test for performance?
<brobostigon> i was refferring to your first answer, not the question.
<popey> diplo: not enough ponies
 * czajkowski wishes skype was package miss it 
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/s/skype/
<czajkowski> need it for preicse
<czajkowski> it was there till thursday and got removed :/
<czajkowski> my own fault
<czajkowski> gah have just stayed in all afternoon for a meeting that nobody showed up :/
<czajkowski> am woefully peed off
<smittix> Anyone know what this could be? I bought a new samsung laptop yesterday and stuck ubuntu 11.10 on it. Everything works perfectly except the track pad. I have to press quite hard on it to make the cursor move.
<zleap> is anyone running firefox 10l  it seems to put a white border around all menus causing what is behind to be obscured as wellas putting one around the list of websites that comes up when you start typing a url,  again making the actual adress box 1/2 visible
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yeah, I had it for precise too, and reinstalled and lost it, about to reinstall now somehow
<AlanBell> I guess the Natty AMD64 package is the one to go for
<AlanBell> populating the partner repo post-release really isn't very helpful :(
<AlanBell> skype is *horrible*
<AlanBell> pulls in tons of 32bit stuff
<czajkowski> nn folks
<diplo> I stopped using Skype on linux
<ali1234> AlanBell: well yeah, that's why we have multiarch. problem?
<AlanBell> not a major problem, just a bit messy
<ali1234> i've started using skype quite a lot recently, it seems to work really well these days
<ali1234> multiarch isn't too bad
<czajkowski> diplo: well forsome, not everyone can do that
<czajkowski> ali1234: aye it works very well
<czajkowski> I do prefer the quality of G+ hangouts but again not everyone uses G+
<AlanBell> I am tempted every time it goes away to not put it back, there really are not many people I talk to on skype
<ali1234> hangouts doesn't work for me
<diplo> heh, was about to say we've moved to G+ for most of our stuff now
<AlanBell> one customer that likes it
<diplo> works on all os's we use and have had 0 issues so far
<czajkowski> I use it for ringing landlines or mobbiles as it's rather cheap once you just load it with credit
<AlanBell> I used to use skype loads
<zleap> spacewar is 50 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2100509/Worlds-game-Spacewar-celebrates-fiftieth-birthday.html
<AlanBell> yay, installed it
<AlanBell> and the indicator whitelist is even working so I can get back to it when it has been minimised
<diplo> We used to use skype all the time for meetings
<popey> we use G+ a lot for meetings
<AlanBell> we use it for our openerp partner calls
<diplo> heh I guess the hat image was a "meeting" ?
 * popey spies ali1234 hanging out
<popey> missus
<ali1234> yeah turns out it works \o/
<popey> etc
<popey> :D
 * AlanBell reinstalls the hangout .deb
<czajkowski> I think my desktop is a bit messed up
<czajkowski> cant shrink my launcher images
<czajkowski> only seem to have unity 2d
<czajkowski> is that right?
<czajkowski> :/
<popey> czajkowski: if you do "ps aux | grep compiz" do you see it listed?
<czajkowski> czajkowski@sheldon:~$ ps aux | grep compiz
<czajkowski> 1000      5547  0.0  0.0   9372   920 pts/2    S+   21:53   0:00 grep --color=auto compiz
<zleap> ok that white border seems to be a 11.10 thing not just firefox, i get it if I right  c lick on desktop
<daubers> bluetooth is slow
<zleap> ok that happens in ambiance theme not radiance, so switched to that for now
<diplo> daubers, yeah used it for the first time in a year recently and reminded me why I had stopped :D
<daubers> diplo: Should have used airdroid really :(
 * daubers goes to bed
<bigcalm[lappy]> Has anybody here got iDisplay working with Linux?
<popey> no idea what an idisplay is
<bigcalm[lappy]> popey: use your iOS or Android device as a 2nd monitor
<bigcalm[lappy]> Requires Windows or Mac though
<popey> oh
<bigcalm[lappy]> Would be nice while I'm on the train or on a work place day
<bigcalm[lappy]> www.shapeservices.com/idisplay
<jacobw> bigcalm[lappy]: what would you use the ios/android second monitor for?
<bigcalm[lappy]> jacobw: I use 4 monitors in my office, using a single laptop screen is very painful for me
<jacobw> i see
 * jacobw groups bigcalm with Azelphur as a multi monitor fetishist
<Azelphur> :D
<jacobw> painful because it clashes with your workflow or because of posture?
<Azelphur> bigcalm[lappy]: I know exactly how you feel, quad screen user here too
<Azelphur> it feels like your working on a postage stamp
<jacobw> virtual desktops!
<bigcalm[lappy]> jacobw: workflow I guess
<bigcalm[lappy]> jacobw: I have 6 virtual desktops on my 4 monitor setup. Most are in use as well
<bigcalm[lappy]> Maybe I ask too much of my system
<jacobw> imo, a feature of virtual desktops is that you can't be distracted by them
<bigcalm[lappy]> I need so many windows open yet rather not have them all clutting the one desktop
<jacobw> i like to minimise multitasking so i keep one 'process' on each virtual desktop
<jacobw> sometimes i need to look at an api or something and code at the same time, i'd like metacity/compiz to tile better in that case
<popey> Azelphur: did you go to the game fest in margate this week?
<Azelphur> popey: nah, missed it
<Azelphur> was you there? XD
<popey> no
<Azelphur> it's mostly retro stuff anyway, I'm not too into retro
<popey> not old enough
<popey> âº
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> i only heard about it by youtube/twiter this weekend
 * bigcalm[lappy] slithers away for the evening
<bigcalm[lappy]> Toodles
<popey> nn
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-11
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> those are quite impressive
<AlanBell> oh, I posted that googlewhack here :)
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell is quite aware.
<AlanBell> the point of the link was that it is a one word single result from google
<AlanBell> not a real word so it doesn't fit the definition of a googlewhack
<redtape-renegade> I usu. use Bing , but enlighten me , WTH is a googlwhack ?
<AlanBell> two real words that if you search for them give exactly one result in google
<redtape-renegade> .. and how can I get one myself .. ??
<AlanBell> they are very hard to find
<kanturk> Sends a slap over the internet ...goo.gl gangum style.
 * redtape-renegade facepalms . to PSY.
<aaron> hello
<Guest72540> can some one help me :S
<webpigeon> Apprently not
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: What about a Hong Kong OEM.. would that do [??].. or would there be too many beaucratic resistance (from Mao China) ?
<AlanBell> dunno
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: Doesnt' seem to be too hard to get stuff made; see things like the cubieboard (although I think the guy who does it is based out there) - but there are loads of little ARM boxes, most supplied with android images, the challenge is to get one that has hardware which is well supported from a legal kernel
<aaron__> Does anyone have an idea why it says my java run time eviroment isnt installed?
<penguin42> because it isn't?
<aaron__> but it is >.<
<AlanBell> aaron__: tell us the rest of the story
<aaron__> i tried downloading and installing something called Pokemmo
<aaron__> and got installed, however it tells me i need java run time eviroment 1.6.0
<aaron__> even though i use java 7 runtime
<redtape-renegade> ThingIs, the reasion I say that is because the local TV repair shop steward told me they do software dev. for MONEUAL tv's as they need the funds to keeop going ./. I think if they followed the scent, they'd convince the Manufacturer to use the U|TV model .. but what do you think ?
<AlanBell> aaron__: what does java -version do?
<AlanBell> in a terminal window, just type java -version
<aaron__> java 1.7.0
<aaron__> ^ thats what it says
<AlanBell> openjdk?
<aaron__> OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea7 2.3.4) (7u9-2.3.4-0ubuntu1.12.10.1)
<webpigeon> aaron__: what says it isn't installed?
<aaron__> an client called Pokemmo.exe
<AlanBell> huh?
<AlanBell> thought it was java? not a windows executable
 * AlanBell downloads the thing
<aaron__> i open the client and it tells me that java run time enviroment 1.6.0 isn't installed
<webpigeon> aaron__: how do you open it?
<webpigeon> if it's via wine, that'd be why
<AlanBell> aaron__: run the PokeMMO.sh file instead
<aaron__> i have :L but ill try again
<AlanBell> don't run PokeMMO.exe, that is the thing for running it on windows
<webpigeon> why people write odd wrappers for java I will never know
<AlanBell> so go into that directory and run "bash PokeMMO.sh"
<AlanBell> it will then start a little dialog box and complain about a lack of a valid rom
<AlanBell> which presumably is the bit they can't legally distribute, so hopefully you have one of those already or something
<webpigeon> a rom wrapped up in a java executable wrapped up in a windows executable :P
<aaron__> apperently is command not found the whats the run thing >.<
<aaron__> nevermind done it lol
<redtape-renegade> What.exe ?
<aaron__> had to allow the executeable to work xD
<AlanBell> yes, you can chmod +x the script or run it with a shell, anyhow does it work?
<aaron__> yeah thanks greatly for your help
<AlanBell> yay \o/
<aaron__> im only just getting used to running ubuntu lol
<webpigeon> AlanBell++
<AlanBell> night all o/
<webpigeon> gnight
<redtape-renegade> \o
<webpigeon> welcome back
<aaron__> hey :P
<webpigeon> :)
<aaron__> what tends to happen here? :P
<webpigeon> people say things,things get things fixed, i've not been around for quite some time now :P
<aaron__> ahh fair does, so theres random people pop in like me? :P
<webpigeon> pretty much, quite a few regular users as well
<aaron__> ahh cool
<redtape-renegade> hi G4MBY, Aloha !!
<evilgeniuz2010> hallo
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> morning all
<Darael> Marnin'.
<toaster> https://37.110.251.231/nfsen.php
<AlanBell> toaster: I am not clicking that
<AlanBell> what is it?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<toaster> sorry pls ignore, wrong window
<mungbean> :-\
<mungbean> can someone check my maths:
<mungbean> 13 character password, upper and lowercase alphabetical characters only: number of poosible permutations: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=52+choose+13&x=0&y=0
<mungbean> 650 billion
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> popey: ref oppo on g+ I couldn't resist :)
<mungbean> i hear the pope is resigning
<brobostigon> in another channel, someone else said that, so i said"is the pope catholic?" the response was,"apparently so." the joke was clearly misunderstood.
<davmor2> brobostigon: no he's German
<brobostigon> davmor2: yes, i knew. but that wasnt the joke.
<mungbean> :-\
<davmor2> brobostigon: no that is the other joke :)
<brobostigon> davmor2: the pope being german, well, i dont quite see it,
<mungbean> does the pope poo in the woods?
<brobostigon> lol
 * popey is gutted he didn't register @pontifex on twitter
<einonm> popey: there's always diaspora
<einonm> or identica
<popey> loldentica
<brobostigon> dentypope
<andylockran> what's the keyboard shortcut on ubuntu for switching between different windows of the same applications?
<mungbean> diaspora, long time since i heard that
<BigRedS> andylockran: alt+backtick
<BigRedS> I think
<andylockran> hmm, no worky
<andylockran> (on a macbook)
<BigRedS> Hm. I've just tested it in Gnome shell on debian and it worked :)
<popey> no
<popey> its alt+<the key above tab>
<popey> not backtick
<andylockran> ok, other issue is how to improve screen resolution on external display - stuck at 1024x768
<andylockran> thanks popey! that worked :)
<popey> nvidia driver installed?
<popey> assuming its a mbp?
<andylockran> mbp. intel integrated
<andylockran> 13"
<andylockran> MacBookPro8,1
<andylockran> found the doc on how to fix it
<einonm> does anyone know if OSX runs on ubuntu KVM out of the box yet, or does it still need patches to work ?
<einonm> obviously running on apple hardware :)
<BigRedS> popey: that's where I get my backticks from
<BigRedS> but, yeah, I guess it doesn't follow backticks around on different maps
<popey> it's configured internally as "the key above tab" so it doesn't matter what key that is
<popey> in theory âº
<bigcalm> Jello :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: hello muppet boy
<andylockran> aww
<FelixTheCat> I am trying to install Ubuntu but get "marking tsc unstable due to tsc halts in idle" followed by "clocksource tsc unstable (delta = -1761805988 ns) and now it just sits at a busybox prompt
<FelixTheCat> please help me install ubuntu
<directhex> what system?
<FelixTheCat> directhex: sony vaio pcg-n5055sn
<directhex> old vaio? lots of thoise are really broken with non-windows
<FelixTheCat> directhex: yeah, about 15 years old
<FelixTheCat> directhex: currently runs puppy but i want ubuntu on it
<davmor2> FelixTheCat: go intt the bios an check the time on it
<FelixTheCat> davmor2: time now is correct
<davmor2> try again
<davmor2> FelixTheCat: ^
<davmor2> FelixTheCat: it might be that you're bios battery died losing the settings and mean that the Time Code Stamp was way out ie 10 years before the dates on the cd and thus confusing it
<FelixTheCat> davmor2: same error
<FelixTheCat> davmor2: are bios batteries replaceable on laptops
<davmor2> FelixTheCat: Yeap just harder to get too
<FelixTheCat> davmor2: i don't thing its a standard battery though (sealed i think)
<davmor2> FelixTheCat: pass then
<andylockran> fdfdfddfdf
<andylockran> sdsd
<davmor2> andylockran: stop cleaning your keyboard on irc ;)
<andylockran> sorry
<andylockran> network connection problem
<davmor2> andylockran: any excuse :)
<andylockran> sure
<kanturk> Hi Simon_Nuttall . Aloha
<kanturk> Boy, did that /go down/ well !!
<kanturk>                                                         [sic]
<BigRedS> Anyone know how to get Dovecot to log *all* commands sent to it?
<mgdm> tcpdump? :-)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah that's where I started
<BigRedS> and then I wondered if there was a more imap-aware way of doing it, several minutes later it ocurred to me that Dovecot probably knows what it's being sent :)
<BigRedS> Oh, and I think this is SSL also :(
<davmor2> BigRedS: have a look in dovecots settings I think by default the logging is either off or set really low and it will tell you where it logs
<BigRedS> yeah, I've turned on everything but auth_debug_passwords out of TFM, but that doesn't get commands
<BigRedS> (where TFM is here: http://wiki1.dovecot.org/Logging)
<BigRedS> I think I'll just get him to turn off SSL and tcpdump it
<davmor2> BigRedS: I don't know if this is of any use http://www.njae.me.uk/Dovecot_server_setup
<davmor2> BigRedS: It might just cover what you have already done
<BigRedS> davmor2: hm, not a lot looks new aside from dovecot-lda having its own log, but that shouldn't be what I'm interested in...
<davmor2> BigRedS: daft question but you did restart dovecot
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah
<davmor2> BigRedS: I figured you would of but it's always worth covering the basics :)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, I've definitely made that mistake in the past! :)
<davmor2> BigRedS: and you can telnet the service?
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, it's all working
<BigRedS> there's just one client they're using that craps out with no real error. But it's authing okay so I'm wondering if it's trying to select a folder that doesn't exist or something
<davmor2> BigRedS: tell them to use a different client and see if they have the same issue :)
<BigRedS> haha, if only :)
<davmor2> BigRedS: the only other thing you can do is use that client and see if you can connect, if you can then the likelihood is they have something setup wrong their end, if you can't then it could be an implementation issue in the client maybe other than that I think you are on your own
<BigRedS> yeah, I think it's tcpdump/tcpflow to the rescue
<skybinary> hiyaz:)
<skybinary> i was trying to get minicom to run on startup, i am ssh to the server but it never seems to start, is there a way i can find out why?
<BigRedS> Isn't minicom a gui app?
<skybinary> yes
<skybinary> well ncurses
<BigRedS> Hah, yeah, that's what I meant. I've never used it, but when you want it to start on startup, is that something it's "supposed" to do? How are you trying to get it to start?
<skybinary> i have tried rc.local as well as a crontab @reboot in crontab
<BigRedS> And what version of Ubuntu? I've just remembered that I don't understand Upstart
<skybinary> yeah i intend it to pick-up the phone , send me a file and hang up
<skybinary>  2.6.38-8-generic #42-Ubuntu SMP
<BigRedS> ah, cool. If you run exactly what's in rc.local I guess it works?  I don't think I'm going to be any use here, really, I'm afraid :(
<skybinary> no worries, thanks BigRedS
<BigRedS> My guess is that it's trying to fire up a curses interface and failing 'cause of cron's environment, but that's based on almost nothing :)
<skybinary> ahh, so screen maybe handy here
<skybinary> i need to find out how to launch screen minicom now oh boi
<skybinary> the script works fine in the terminal, i even exported the path my user activated script was using
<kanturk> david says his to davidmarais .
<kanturk> **hi
<davidmarais> kanturk:hi
<kanturk> davidmarais, Just nice to meet another David , tis'all.
<davidmarais> kanturk;likewise there are actually a few of us in Canonical
<kanturk> davidmarais,  Canonical is full of Character's .. http://goo.gl/8Gi2W
<kanturk> How many would you say are on the Lubuntu team that work at Canonical itself, would you judge ?
<popey> kanturk: thats the 3rd or 4th time I've seen you post that image... what are you trying to say with it?
<popey> you seem to be alluding to something, but I may be to thick to figure it out
<dwatkins> Full of character's what?
<kanturk> "Post" ? Is this a G+comm. thingy?? sorry I got it off my boy on Saturday night.. Sorry if it offends you I'll tel him to de-dropbox it.
<popey> it doesn't offend
<popey> I flat out don't know what you're saying
<popey> but you keep posting uit
<popey> *it
<kvarley> I don't understand why you would post a short url instead of the actual url either
<skybinary> what is that piccy about?
<kanturk> redtape, Can you get back to me when you check the logs for this chanel tonite after work ? Someone want the File Comment you showed me of your Screenshot from saturday
<bigcalm> From the /topic: This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<BigRedS> I R clogs!
<kanturk> popey, .. *I'll tweet him* to come back to you here. Prob. tonight or tomorrow.. morn.
<popey> eh? you and he are not the same person?
<skybinary> yay, i got it working, i had to use ... su - username -c "/usr/bin/screen -dmS /home/scripts/telnet" &
<skybinary> in rc.local
<kanturk> No, but we use the same office. It's a shared Vaio notebook that I use after doing the petty cajh for 10 mins on my smoking-break . I have to go now .. as my Radio 4 prog. has started. I'll stave off till his present arrives this week ..apparently his got a good deal on stationary. Bye.
<BigRedS> skybinary: aha!
<skybinary> i was trying /home/scripts/telnet & and then i tried screen /home/scripts/telnet, but with the -dmS option it runs as a deamon
<jacobw> evening
<MartijnVdS> woo, new Epic Rap Battle of History
<bigcalm> Hazar! It is me!
<penguin42> hey me
<MartijnVdS> mii?
<bigcalm> No, me!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: hi me
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: hi me too
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUCcObwIsOs
<MartijnVdS> "A Defense of Comic Sans"
<dwatkins> It cannot be defended.
<popey> i saw an app recently which, if you didn't pay for a license beyond 30 days, would revert to only displaying in comic sans
<popey> novel
<MartijnVdS> popey: Last year, some radio DJs celebrated "Comic Sans Day", and $work participated (and klm.com as well!)
<MartijnVdS> popey: The CRM still has a "Use different font" user preference setting :)
<jacobw> sometimes people act as if hatred of comic sans is irrational
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: interesting video
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBibXwwLBts
<BigRedS> I was sent that the other day
<BigRedS> I nearly changed my terminal font to comic sans in response but it's not free enough
<davmor2> BigRedS: did you solve your issue with dovecot in the end?
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, tcpdump
<davmor2> BigRedS: what was it the way that client was interacting?
<BigRedS> yeah, it could bring up an imap/ssl connection but didn't then know what to do with it
<BigRedS> given a cleartext connection it was fine
<BigRedS> so, actually, tcpdump itself didn't help, 'cause it started working as soon as it was clear enough to bother listening
<davmor2> BigRedS: hahahaha
<BigRedS> yeah, I was a bit baffled
<DJones> Anybody rushing out to buy a 3D tv in anticipation of this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21413511
<BigRedS> I thought we all decided we didn't want 3D TV?
<czajkowski> other half has one
<czajkowski> it's rather cool watching stuff in 3D
<shauno> they weren't issued ahead of the queen's speech last christmas?
<BigRedS> haha, forgot about that
<dwatkins> I know someone who bought a 3D TV because the particularly good panel he wanted was only available in a 3D model. He barely uses it in 3D mode.
<directhex> i have a 3d tv
<directhex> for some games, it's super awesome
<directhex> basically games with a camera with mostly fixed focus on your protagonist, e.g. assassin's creed or wipeout
<directhex> it's bad for games where the camera moves away from your character a lot
<penguin42> directhex: I wouldn't mind trying Fold.it on a 3d set
<zleap> wat is the remote login manager thing called from the login screen
<zleap> xrmbc
<zleap> or something
<zleap> don't know what to google for
<ali1234> xdmcp
<zleap> xryeah
<zleap> how do i add that option to the login screen for lubuntu
<zleap> or ubuntu
<ali1234> no idea
<zleap> kl
<penguin42> zleap: Try enabling xdmcpserver in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
<zleap> er ok
<zleap> ok
<penguin42> that is if you want to be able to login to the machine remotely
<zleap> will do that later
<zleap> yeah so its an option on the login menu
<penguin42> oh, then that's different
<penguin42> how about saying exactly what it is you want to be able to do?
<zleap> ok
<zleap> at one time there was a remote login option on the login screen
<zleap> i want this back as an option
<penguin42> and what exactly did that do?
<zleap> dunno
<penguin42> what did it let you log into?
<popey> wat
<zleap> i guess allowed remote login
<popey> the remote login option in the logon screen is different from xdmcp
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i give up
<popey> remote login is designed for corporate customers who want to allow users to access remote systems
<zleap> ok
<popey> e.g. to access a remote windows session on citrix
<popey> you can also use it to remotely control ubuntu machines
<zleap> tis used to he an option on linux gui display mangers
<popey> yes, there did
<popey> but that is long gone
<zleap> ok
<penguin42> zleap: How long ago - is this Ubuntu or long ago?
<popey> it was in early releases of ubuntu
<zleap> a few years but I am sure ubuntu ad it
<zleap> had it
<popey> certainly went when we went to lightdm
<zleap> ok i will use vnc then as that is set up on the pi
<zleap> i just figured if there was a way to remotely login graphically without having to login first it would be handy
<zleap> so njow its login to Desktop and vnc to pi
<penguin42> ah, so you want to vnc, now you say what you want to connect to!
<zleap> i have vnc working
<zleap> but if there is a way to just choose remote desktop from a login screen it would be handy as an option
<popey> yeah, you can't do that anymore
<zleap> so what package does that
<zleap> given my netbook runs lubuntu
<zleap> should be a case of installing something to get the option back
<popey> I'm kinda lost
<zleap> ok
<popey> no
<penguin42> zleap: The thing that gives you the login option is called a 'greeter'
<popey> it was never implemented in lightdm
<penguin42> zleap: So display manager runs greeter
<penguin42> zleap: Whether there is a version of that still in the gtk-greeter package I don't know
<xtian> zleap: if you ssh -X it will export your display setting to remte ssh session so on the pi (for example) you could run xclock and it will display on your local xdisplay
<zleap> ok will look lter or just use vnc
<penguin42> zleap: However, there is another way; create yourself a new user and in that users xsession get it to just start a vncclient
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i will look in to that tomorrow
<zleap> i guess i need to figure out what to add the vncviewer to to make it autostart
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-12
<penguin42> popey: Straight quantal install includes a Remote Login   login on the desktop by default (as per zleap's query)
<ali1234> MC68000P8 sells for $16 "sold as seen - collectors item"
<ali1234> waaaaaat
<penguin42> there must be zillions out there
<ali1234> probably not in PDIP
<penguin42> isn't that what was in every ST and early Amiga?
<ali1234> yes
<penguin42> anyway, bed!
<AlanBell> morning
<newbie23> hello
<newbie23> can i expect some help here?
<AlanBell> hi newbie23
<AlanBell> newbie23: you will have to ask a question before it can be answered
<AlanBell> Ubuntu Phone dev platform announced http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21387371
<newbie324> ??
<AlanBell> newbie23: do you need some help with something?
<newbie324> i am 324 now and yes i still need some help
<newbie324> i looked for solutions in askubuntu
<newbie324> but they didn't work
<AlanBell> link?
<newbie324> i am really new to ubuntu so i have been trying to install it from usb
<newbie324> but it wouldn't boot
<newbie324> :|
<newbie324> i tried Lili and all other similar programs
<newbie324> i am running it now on virtual box
<newbie324> but i want to install a fresh copy of ubuntu
<newbie324> downloaded 12.04 lts iso
<AlanBell> how did you install it to USB?
<AlanBell> with startup disk creator or something else?
<newbie324> using this http://www.linuxliveusb.com/
<newbie324> and running on virtual box using this too
<newbie324> my current os is windows 7
<AlanBell> is the computer set up to boot from USB?
<AlanBell> bios settings boot order or something like that
<newbie324> yes i am on hp pavilion g6 notebook. so when i start the laptop i hit f9 to select boot device option.
<newbie324> there i get an option to boot EFI
<AlanBell> oh, EFI
<AlanBell> right, that is going to need the 64 bit version of Ubuntu I think
<newbie324> but my OS is 32-bit
<AlanBell> http://releases.ubuntu.com/quantal/ubuntu-12.10-desktop-amd64.iso
<AlanBell> your computer is 64 bit capable
<newbie324> yes it is
<newbie324> so you recommend i download a 64-bit version from ubuntu website?
<AlanBell> yes, from the link I just pasted
<newbie324> i already downloaded 12.10 32-bit and then someone told me to get 12.04 LTS so downloaded that and now download again T_T
<AlanBell> if your computer will boot in not-efi mode then 32 bit should work
<AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1025555
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1025555 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu32bits is incompatible with recent (UEFI) computers" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<popey> morning all
<jacobw> morning popey + all
<bigcalm> Hullo peeps :)
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Shipment has left Poland
<bigcalm> Why isn't it at my door step yet?
<bigcalm> Hi popey
<popey> outrage
<czajkowski> lol
<bigcalm> UPS from Poland to UK. I wonder if it'll be by air or road
<bigcalm> I could just wait until the expected delivery date of Thursday
<Myrtti> ooo
<bigcalm> Hi Myrtti :)
<Myrtti> I forgot I've got stuff coming from Amazon today
<Myrtti> Thanks for reminding
<bigcalm> Erm, you're welcome :)
<bigcalm> I'm still waiting for Tesco to send me vouchers for Cafe Rouge
 * bigcalm rubs his tummy
<newbie324> thanks for the help hopefully it will work
<newbie324> o/
<kvarley> Is there an app that will let me run an ARM binary on my regular PC?
<dwatkins> kvarley: an Android phone emulator, perhaps?
<popey> qemu
<dwatkins> What kind of ARM binary are we talking?
<popey> why would you want to though?
<kvarley> The Minecraft-Pi edition
<bigcalm> kvarley: buy the game, it's worth the price
<kvarley> bigcalm: I already own it :)
<bigcalm> kvarley: good :)
<kvarley> It was purely to open up a LAN game to more people without Pis
<bigcalm> Can the RPi version connect to normal servers?
<kvarley> bigcalm: I suspect not since it is forked from the pocket edition
<kvarley> bigcalm: Will be interesting to see if it can connect to pocket edition servers tho
<bigcalm> I see
<popey> MartijnVdS: interesting you get 4.2.2, I'm on 4.2.1 on nexus 4
<popey> what's new?
<dwatkins> I might give it a go on my Pi when I get home. It's currently a temperature sensor thanks to munin.
<kvarley> bigcalm: Running the demo of Pocket Edition on my tablet and Pi Edition on my Pi both can see the server when the other is in a game but it fails to connect.
<popey> does pi edition use the same auth stuff?
<kvarley> popey: No user accounts are needed for pocket edition
<MartijnVdS> popey: I haven't seen anything different yet
<MartijnVdS> popey: apparently it fixes bluetooth streaming
<MartijnVdS> popey: (I upgraded before I got the notification using adb + http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1337)
<MartijnVdS> popey: the update is almost 50M though, and from the size of the patch files, it's mostly updates to the pre-installed apps
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/12/android-4-2-2-update-reportedly-arriving-on-galaxy-nexus-phones/
<MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/android-4-2-2-brings-bluetooth-audio-fixes-to-nexus-phones-and-tablets/
<MartijnVdS> </spam>
<DJones> Morning all
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<MartijnVdS> \o
<BigRedS> I've decided that we need an internal pastebin at work. What should I apt-get install and then see Just Work? :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: we use https://github.com/claudehohl/Stikked
<AlanBell> pnopaste is in the repos
<dwatkins> there's also hastebin: http://hastebin.com/about.md
<BigRedS> Oooh, ta!"
<AlanBell> pnopaste works, you need to  sudo ln -s /etc/pnopaste/apache2.conf /etc/apache2/conf.d/pnopaste.conf
<AlanBell> then it is at host/pnopaste
<BigRedS> Yeah, pnopaste looks about right since it's all Perl and that's all I've got on the system I plan to use
<BigRedS> Just need to translate the apache config into lighty
<BigRedS> ta!
<bigcalm> Can you specify a pastebin for use with pastebinit?
<bigcalm> That would then be a good combination
<BigRedS> blimey, it's really short on why I need to do some of these things - seems to reckon I'll want a utility for pasting to this pastebin from the server it's running on...
<BigRedS> ah yeah, apt-get. that was the plan...
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yes, you can
<bigcalm> AlanBell: which big was that meant for?
<AlanBell> conf files are in /usr/share/pastebin.d
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Morning kids
<davmor2> bigcalm: you know some of us are older than you don't you :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: only by age ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
 * Laney calls the council tax office to voluntarily pay more
<Laney> :S :S :S
<Laney> well, not exactly voluntarily
<bigcalm> Laney: I know another good home for unwanted money
 * davmor2 ups Laney 's air tax
 * Laney steals a compulsory piggy back on davmor2 
<Laney> TO THE COOKIE STATION
<Laney> I just need to tell them that my girlfriend has moved in
<Laney> so no more 25% discount
<bigcalm> Laney: is she paying her way?
<Laney> hope so :P
<bigcalm> o.O
<Laney> it is done
<Laney> (95 / 75) * 100 = 126.66666666666667
 * Laney weeps
<davmor2> Laney: oh but come one what a way to have to pay more money
<Laney> haha
<Laney> it is for a good reason
<davmor2> Laney: ouch where the hell do you live so I know to never move there
<Laney> http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1178
<Laney> is that higher than average?
<davmor2> Laney: http://www.wolverhampton.gov.uk/council/council_tax/council+tax+bands+and+charges.htm
<davmor2> and I thought ours was high
<Laney> actually I think I'm only band B so I probably got my calculation wrong
<Laney> yeah average band D is 1444
<bigcalm> http://www.telford.gov.uk/site/scripts/download_info.aspx?fileID=1257&categoryID=200028
<bigcalm> I have no idea which band we're in
<bigcalm> D for me would be 1,413.56
<popey> i have no idea either
<Laney> so yeah nottingham is quite high
<AlanBell> 192/month for us, but I think it is over 10 or 11 months for some reason
<davmor2> popey: yours will be higher you are too close to ye olde ye London towne
<kvarley1> Any way for me to change the Skype icon to a higher resolution one? Looks ugly in the beautiful Alt + Tab interface Ubuntu has
<Laney> we got a flyer from the council complaining that they are being affected by cuts more then southern councils
<Laney> don't know how true that is
<davmor2> kvarley1: goto /usr/share/icons and I think it is in there just swap it out for a higher res one ensuring it has the same permissions
<kvarley1> davmor2: Ok, thanks
<bigcalm> I would be happy for our council tax to go up if it meant that services continued to get funded (hurts more when my Hayley works in the council and feels the pressure of cuts and no support)
<davmor2> Laney: yeah it is cause the big girlie southerns can't do 2 peoples jobs like they can up T'north
<popey> whippets, flat caps, coal etc
<Laney> I was happy when they responded to my fixmystreet request to fix some potholes saying that they would do it :P
<czajkowski> Laney: did they actually do it ?
<Laney> not yet ...
<czajkowski> or jsut respond to you?
<czajkowski> :)
<Laney> 28 working days from jan 22nd
<davmor2> Laney: we've only been waiting 3 years for them to fix our carpark and we still aren't even on the list for alterations yet
<Laney> heh
<Laney> get your councillors involved
<davmor2> Laney: that was with the Councillors involved
<czajkowski> back home home I lived ina  small village councillors would often knock on your doors to see how things were going even before elections so you could bend their ears
<Laney> cute
<davmor2> Laney: they have to get the budget for it as 15 parking spaces for 132 flats is a bit low
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's your fault for having a car
<AlanBell> any cheap home printer recommendations?
<AlanBell> not an inkjet
<davmor2> AlanBell: Samsung
<davmor2> AlanBell: HP
<popey> I would ask tkamppeter__ âº
<AlanBell> who?
<popey> the guy who maintains printers for basically all linux distros
<popey> (and works for us)
<popey> he runs linuxprinting.org
<AlanBell> ok, thanks
<AlanBell> http://www.ebuyer.com/397339-dell-1160w-mono-laser-printer-210-40394 given that this one is wireless it should be standard postscript or something right?
<davmor2> AlanBell: I have the Samsung clp-300 sits here quite happily, you have to add the splix and foo2zjs but then cups handles it fine I think the newer version is the 310  you can get non-branded toner from amazon and ebay for about Â£20 for the set
<davmor2> AlanBell: I had a dell you had to goto their website and grab a driver but only the print part work the scanner never did :(  However the hp I got next did :)
<Azelphur> looks like bitcoin is booming again
 * Azelphur called this ~8 months ago xD
 * AlanBell ordered the Dell
<popey> AlanBell: be interested to know how it goes, I'm after a laser
<AlanBell> I was tempted to get one of these http://www.ebuyer.com/386208-ricoh-sp100-laser-printer-ricohsp100?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products and make it work somehow
<AlanBell> but as it is for the kids I figured that the instant gratification of a printer that is likely to work was better than the fun of beating sense into one that won't
<DJones> In byobu, what does a red "1#" stand for on the bottom line, I thought it was to do with updates, but I've just run update & upgrade with no change to "1#"
<AlanBell> Â£20 for a printer including cartridge, and when that runs out a refil cartridge is Â£59.99
<AlanBell> DJones: I have 2#
<amayer_> AlanBell: thats how the market for printers is
<DJones> I wondered whether it could be the number of users logged in
<AlanBell> users
<AlanBell> alan alan alan alan alan alan alan
<DJones> Yeah, just found it on the man page
<DJones> Thanks anyway
<AlanBell> wonder why mine says 2# and not 1 or 7
<popey> its the window number
<popey> if you open some and close 0 then you'll still have 1
<popey> they don't re-number as you close windows
<DJones> Grr, why don't hospitals have video camera's in the theatre's so you know were abouts surgery is up to
<popey> maybe the machines should tweet
<popey> *beep*
<popey> *beep*
<popey> *beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep*
<popey> j/k - *beep*
<popey> etc
<mgdm> "@ECGMachine: OMG! @CrashTeam get here now!"
<DJones> That could be interesting
<popey> AlanBell: http://www.ebuyer.com/321919-samsung-ml-2160-mono-laser-printer-ml-2160-xeu
<popey> looks suspiciously like your dell
<BigRedS> Dells always used to be lexmarks
<AlanBell> the dell has wifi
<popey> so does the samsung
<popey> well, the 2165W variant does âº
<popey> so does the 2160 allegedly
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spt3c6TYtxo this Korean video explains it clearly âº
<knightwise> hey everyone
<popey> hello
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B006LFQU9S/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
<popey> not good reviews
<AlanBell> well as long as it means I don't get woken up early to drive a small person to the office to print out their homework that they should have done the day before then I am cool
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> "Samsung customer service is to customer satisfaction what King Herod is to playgroups." yeah, that isn't a great review is it
<popey> http://www.amazon.com/Dell-1160w-Wireless-Monochrome-Printer/product-reviews/B008HZFB3G
<popey> this guy seems to think it's not wireless, how odd
<popey> maybe he bought a diff one and reviewed that one instead
<knightwise> any idea when the first developement releases will be out of the ubuntu phone os ?
<penguin42> my ml1640 isn't as reliable as my previous sammy printer; it tends to take a couple of goes to get it to pick up paper
<popey> "soon"
<knightwise> thanx popey :)
<popey> sorry I can't be more specific
<bigcalm> Before the October date that Mark said we would have Ubuntu phones? ;)
<bigcalm> (I think it was October?)
<popey> yes
<popey> we will release the source and some sample developer images for a couple of popular devices
<AlanBell> what was the October quote in relation to?
<amayer_> knightwise: im just as eager as you to play with one
<AlanBell> "two large geographical markets" in October
<AlanBell> antarctica, and one other
<amayer_> AlanBell: haha
<penguin42> AlanBell: Mars
<popey> âº
<popey> Mars and Venus
<penguin42> popey: It's good of you to volunteer to be the onsite support
<popey> I can't say. But there's a lot of wild speculation, and most of it is wrong.
<popey> I wish!
<mungbean_> india
<mungbean_> china
<penguin42> popey: I'm sure Mark knows someone with a rocket to get you there....
<mungbean_> south africa
<popey> Yes, keep all these expectations in mind. They can only either be met or exceeded.
<AlanBell> mungbean_: I don't know if they can translate and design applications for RTL and so on to go to those markets in that timescale
<AlanBell> I think it has to be an English language market
<penguin42> AlanBell: Ubuntu has pretty good translations for a vast range of languages and there are devs working everywhere, so I doubt it would be too hard
<AlanBell> penguin42: RTL isn't just a translation issue
<penguin42> AlanBell: Yeh but it's already handled in most libraries isn't it?
<AlanBell> I am sure QML has reasonable support for it, yes
<AlanBell> but that isn't the same as saying all the core applications are going to be written by the community https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/grid where they are all in english so far
<AlanBell> and they are going to just look awesome when you just translate the strings to chinese?
<AlanBell> we don't have ubuntu font coverage for chinese or korean
<AlanBell> we do have the new rupee sign though
<penguin42> yeh font coverage I guess takes a lot of work
<mungbean_> ubuntu should release a phone in countries shackled by carrier contracts
<mungbean_> australians and USians have that trouble don't they?
<AlanBell> they should do something disruptive and unique
<AlanBell> competing directly with iPhone and Android on level terms would be a brave strategy
<AlanBell> possibly even courageous
<penguin42> I guess in some ways it's not that hard to do; you can ask one of the hardware OEMs to install this image rather than that presumably fairly simply
<penguin42> getting people to buy it, or carriers to support it may be somewhat harder
<popey> not necessarily
<popey> we've been talking to handset manufacturers and carriers
<popey> not just handset manufacturers
<penguin42> what's the attraction to the carriers?
<popey> well, look at android
 * penguin42 looks at his android
<popey> odm designs hardware with a platform in mind
<popey> oem takes hardware, puts that software on it, sells it
<popey> carrier takes that handset and sells to consumers in stores
<popey> customer takes the device home, buys stuff from google play..
<popey> neither the carrier nor oem nor odm see any of that revenue
<popey> Go to Google, do not collect Â£200.
<penguin42> hmm true; the carriers do tend to add their own apps, but yeh that's true
<popey> also, in order to put GoogleOS on your handset you have to agree to somewhat onerous contracts.
<popey> "Don't be evil" though, so that's all okay.
<penguin42> popey: Working with carriers must be interesting, you get into all the stuff of how to push updates over their network etc
<popey> indeed. that'll be fun
<kvarley> Does anybody know if there is a plugin for pidgin which will add the game I'm currently playing on steam to my status?
<mungbean_> carrier software on phones is the worst kind of bloatware
<BigRedS> yeah, it's like buying a Windows PC
<BigRedS> You need to decide whether to reinstall just the OS you want and risk not being able to reinstall any handy bundled utils, or to just leave it be and tolerate it
<penguin42> which reminds me, I must upgrade my cyanogen install
<BigRedS> haha, I think I'm still on an RC
<penguin42> yeh me to, I'm on a 7RC I think, I think there's a 10 out for it now
<BigRedS> I've no idea what number I'm on :) I think it's the current stable for everything else but the S2 took ages to stabilise
<BigRedS> and it's old now
<penguin42> mines a couple of years old
<penguin42> hmm the 10.x isn't an official cyanogen build
<mungbean_> they never are
<mungbean_> 10.x on my touchpad doing fine
<mungbean_> my htc desire never got higher than cm7x
<penguin42> yeh this is a zte blade, someone seems to have done the 10.x stuff separtely
<mungbean_> no major gains on the phone OS for me, but tablet form factor is improved in cm10
<andylockran> hi
<davmor2> hmmmmmmm I wonder whats for tea....... Oh Yeah PANCAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<kvarley1> I suspect that my router is causing me to disconnect from games on Wii U. I want to setup my laptop as a wireless access point that defers DHCP to my router, is that possible? How would I go about this?
<dwatkins> ah it's *that* Tuesday
<davmor2> dwatkins: Oh yeah baby!
<DJones> Hmmh, does this count as "extreme camping"? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BC7Xvo0CAAAO7iz.jpg:large
<dwatkins> DJones: super duper extreme camping, most definitely
<penguin42> I guess that's for climbers who can't complete a face in ne day?
<DJones> Never having climbed anything like that, I won't call them wimps for giving up half way :)
<penguin42> me neither
<dwatkins> I imagine it's a matter of the time to climb, yeah.
<amayer_> that would be awesome!!!
 * penguin42 guesses it gets even more 'interesting' if it gets windy
<dwatkins> Don't forget Extreme Ironing... http://i.imgur.com/bFT1y.jpg
<amayer_> o.O
<dwatkins> haha, there's even a calendar: http://imgur.com/a/YC9Od
<DJones> Maybe popey could do the ironing while in that campsite :)
<ali1234> (15:36:25) popey: neither the carrier nor oem nor odm see any of that revenue
<ali1234> not strictly true since samsung devices have a samsung branded app store
<ali1234> and then you have operator billing too
<ali1234> ODM and carrier see plenty of post sale revenue from android devices
<penguin42> ali1234: Your roundtrip time is incredible :-)
<popey> ali1234: I specifically said google play store âº
<ali1234> google play store supports operator billing
<popey> that was in refernce to your samsung store comment
<Myrtti> popey: are you getting the N4 fixed then? I suppose it's cheaper than buying a new one
<popey> Myrtti: will phone LG tomorrow and find out, their website claims 130 quid for all repairs
<popey> Azelphur: what was the bug you had where the cursor disappeared? I have had it in gedit
<Azelphur> popey: minimise gedit -> cursor disappears
<Azelphur> seems to have gone away now that I stopped using Ubuntu's compiz, though.
 * directhex moos
<popey> Azelphur: did you file or find a bug?
<Azelphur> I think I found a bug, it was on the debian list iirc
 * penguin42 has seen a bunch of disappearing cursor problems for a couple of years
<penguin42> hmm can't find the bug number
<popey> I'll have a look in the morning
<Azelphur> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=662099
<lubotu3> Debian bug 662099 in gedit "Blinking text cursor sometimes disappear" [Important,Open]
<ali1234> xorg:fglrx - ATI/AMD proprietary FGLRX graphics driver (Proprietary, Disabled, In use)
<ali1234> wat
<penguin42> interesting combination
<penguin42> ali1234: Does that mean was installed, you've disabled it but haven't quite X since asking for that?
<ali1234> no, it means i had a working setup and then did sudo apt-get install fglrx-updates
<ali1234> which removes fglrx, and makes fglrx-updates "in use" and "disabled" at the same time, so it does not work
<ali1234> then i did sudo apt-get install fglrx
<ali1234> which does the same thing but with fglrx
<penguin42> curious
<ali1234> then i punched jockey until it worked
<penguin42> yes, you do have to remind it whose side it's supposed to be on every so often
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-13
<ali1234> if git format-patch added the mailing list i want to post to as a CC: should i also add it as To:?
<ali1234> never mind, damn thing doesn't work anyway
<knightwise> eeehlo
<knightwise> how are you doing today ?
<jacobw> morning campers
<popey> Morning
<Laney> meow
<czajkowski> herrrrro
<JamesTait> Happy World Radio Day, folks! :-D
<kvarley> Ubuntu 12.10 64-bit - My laptop always boots up with the wireless turned off. How can I fix this?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> kvarley: how do you switch it on?
<kvarley> popey: I go to the wireless indicator which makes me think software rather than hardware switch?
<kvarley> I wasn't happy that I didn't have Steam on Ubuntu for years and now it's here I'm not happy that Steam is on Ubuntu - My wallet is thinning out rapidly!
<mungbean_> i stil get plagued by the debconf window appearing when installing things from software centre
<mungbean_> experienced it on loads of different isntalls
<kvarley> What license is the ambiance theme under?
<Laney> kvarley: /usr/share/doc/light-themes/copyright
<kvarley> Laney: Thanks, I was looking in /usr/share/themes/Ambiance but couldn't see anything
<Laney> apt-cache search ambiance reveals the package name
<kvarley> Laney: Ah ok, thank you :)
<Laney> then /usr/share/doc/<package>/copyright shows you the license info for every package
<kvarley> Nice to know
<kvarley> Looking at repackaging ambiance for another environment, when I'm forced to use a different environment other than unity I just miss ambiance too much!
<davmor2> Morning All
<davmor2> popey: :( on the phone dude
<popey> yeah
<DJones> Is it lazy to have a coffee machine in a home office? To me it makes perfect sense, makes sure I have enough to drink while working, I don't have to interupt what I'm doing to go downstairs to make a drink etc, my wife said its being lazy
<davmor2> DJones: I have a Dolce Gusto beside me right now :)
<DJones> davmor2: Good, I'm glad its not just me
<davmor2> DJones: I don't you it constantly but it is there when I want a drink
<DJones> This is an  8 cup percolator, fill it up and drink through the day as needed
<dwatkins> DJones: I tend to take breaks to go to the kitchen and make a cup of tea whether I'm working at home or in the office, just to get away from my desk etc. in-between tasks.
<dwatkins> so having a coffee machine isn't lazy, but it might mean I don't get regular breaks away from the machine to chill out
<ubuntubhoy> Anyone able to help me get an old laptop with BCM4318 wifi working on 12.04 ?
<dogmatic69> ubuntubhoy: just state the problem and someone might help.
<ubuntubhoy> basically networking is enabled, but shows nothing
<ubuntubhoy> iwlist sc an says the network is down
<ubuntubhoy> I have checked a ton of stuff on Ask Ubuntu, but nothing has worked
<dogmatic69> did you just install?
<ubuntubhoy> yip
<dogmatic69> did it work on the live disk?
<ubuntubhoy> other than updating nothing has been added
<ubuntubhoy> nope
<ubuntubhoy> same on the live disk
<dogmatic69> ok
<dogmatic69> sometimes it works on live and not once installed
<ubuntubhoy> but it did work on a previous version
<ubuntubhoy> mother-in-laws laptop
<ubuntubhoy> was doing a re-install
<dogmatic69> what laptop is it?
<ubuntubhoy> an old Acer Aspire 3630
<dogmatic69> what does lshw show?
<ubuntubhoy> basically says *-network disabled
<ubuntubhoy> also has a *-remoteaccess UNCLAIMED above it
<dogmatic69> there is a askabuntu that says its starts up disabled.
<dogmatic69> did you try
<dogmatic69> sudo rmmod -f ath5k
<dogmatic69> sudo rfkill unblock all
<dogmatic69> sudo modprobe ath5k
<ubuntubhoy> yeah, saw that
<ubuntubhoy> I have a BCM chip though
<ubuntubhoy> not ath
<dogmatic69> change the ath5k part maybe?
<ubuntubhoy> BCM4318 [Airforce One 54g]
<kvarley> Random question, my headset picks up a lot of noise. Is there any way to strip that out on-the-fly?
<kvarley> Another q, how to I listen to my mic live? I remember on XP ages ago you could tick a box to "Listen to this device" or something similar
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: where is it plugged in?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: unmute it
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Plugged into the 3.5mm port on the side of my laptop that does both headphones and mic in one socket
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: some of those are just noisy.. can't do anything about that
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Hehe ok :)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: It's a Wii U headset so I suspect it is just bad quality mic
<kvarley> Might stick some foam on it
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: I switched to an USB sound card/stick on my desktop because the default outputs were VERY noisy (I could hear almost every bit passing on the PCI-E bus)
<kvarley> lol
<kvarley> Lovely
<kvarley> I was just seeing how much pain I'm inflicting upon other gamers when using the mic for online play
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: did you install the broadcom wifi drivers?
<ubuntubhoy> Dave2: think my issue is the firmware
<ubuntubhoy> just going through something
<ubuntubhoy> might be the answer
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: what version of Ubuntu?
<ubuntubhoy> 12.04
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: open the dash type in jockey and see if it displays additional drivers
<ubuntubhoy> just rebooting
<ubuntubhoy> 2 secs
<bigcalm> davmor2: you're slightly closer to Tamworth than I am. Go and fetch my new workstation from UPS would you? ;)
<ubuntubhoy> Dave2: also, it hung trying to install additional drivers twice. Had to re-install
 * czajkowski pokes davmor2 HOWDY
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: check your tab completes
<davmor2> czajkowski: how do
<ubuntubhoy> Dave2: tab completes ?
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's probably easier for you, 1. the A5 is close to you than it is me, 2. you'd need id if they let you collect :P
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: I'm davmor2 not Dave2
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ubuntubhoy> gotcha
<ubuntubhoy> bad eyesight is bad
<bigcalm> davmor2: it's due for delivery tomorrow. I'm just impatient
<davmor2> bigcalm: if it has UEFI burn a cd/dvd rather than a pendrive, also use 64bit 12.10 + if you want to keep secureboot in place :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: good to know, ta
<bigcalm> davmor2: though until I have a new ssd for Ubuntu, I'll have to make do with Windows on the hdd. Work comes before play, sadly
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: so the fact that the drivers weren't installed will mean that the wifi was permanently down
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap just a heads up, ie if you intend keeping windows 8 on it then it has to have secure boot in place, but the new UEFI menu will mean that it will happily allow you to boot both which is cool :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I ordered the machine with Windows 7
<bigcalm> davmor2: if I go crazy, I'll be able get Windows 8 from our company. But I hope not to use Windows much at all
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'd still double check if the UEFI is secureboot enabled for windows 7 I think MS backported
<bigcalm> davmor2: oh, I expect the machine to be locked down like that. But 13.04 should 'Just Work', right? :)
<AlanBell> I don't know if 32 bit will work
<davmor2> bigcalm: 64bit 12.10 or 64bit 13.04 should just work yes
<bigcalm> Ug, the snow is starting to settle again
<bigcalm> davmor2: I have no reason, that I know of, to bother with 32bit any more
<AlanBell> I have *no* idea why bug 585940 is still not fixed
<lubotu3> bug 585940 in ubuntu-website-content "Misinformation when intending to download the 64-bit edition" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585940
<bigcalm> Is there a reason for anybody to use 32bit on a modern machine?
<AlanBell> it isn't fixed
<davmor2> bigcalm: AlanBell: I think 64bit will be the default for 13.04 possibly
<AlanBell> well that might be what the last comment means
<Dave2> I was wondering why my pocket kept vibrating when I was at lunch
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+bug/585940/comments/139 why don't the web team like bugs? Why is this a web team only problem? (it would affect the pressed disks)
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 585940 in ubuntu-website-content "Misinformation when intending to download the 64-bit edition" [Undecided,Fix released]
<AlanBell> I guess we will find out in April
<davmor2> AlanBell: also I see from the steam client info that 32bit is still used quite a lot, but 64bit is definitely edging ahead :)
<BigRedS> Nah, that last comment just means nobody's going to look at it
<AlanBell> well yeah, it will be used quite a lot because we press 32 bit and recommend the 32 bit download
<AlanBell> I would be astonished if anyone is running steam games on a processor that can't do 64 bit
<davmor2> AlanBell: agreed
<davmor2> AlanBell: and 64bit is the only secureboot enabled image too
<BigRedS> I'm a bit bemused at the steam package being x86
<ali1234> popey asking everyone to "cut them some slack" - ok, but that was 2.5 years ago :)
<directhex> for steam, 64 bit is more popular than 32-bit by a 2:1 ratio
<AlanBell> and now we have people downloading the 32 bit image, putting it on USB, finding it doesn't work on EFI and having to download 64 bit after figuring out why it doesn't work
<directhex> davmor2, windows 7 and older don't support secure boot at all
<directhex> davmor2, they don't support pure uefi boot either, you need CSM video bios support enabled to do a UEFI install of windows 7
<directhex> vista sp1 x64 is needed for uefi
<davmor2> directhex: I thought there was a back port for it I'm more than happy to be wrong about that though
<davmor2> I hates the UEFI anyway
<bigcalm> davmor2: why?
<directhex> davmor2, you're mistaken. windows 8 is the only microsoft OS to support uefi secure boot.
<davmor2> directhex: cool I hate windows 8 and secureboot so I can just bundle them together :)
<ali1234> what about windows RT?
<directhex> sigh
<directhex> on x86-64
<directhex> better?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> i asked because i don't know
<directhex> windows rt and windows phone 8 also use uefi secure boot (on arm)
<davmor2> bigcalm: It's a pain, because it is optimised for windows the minute that it detects a windows secureboot drive it starts booting from it but sometimes before the USB power is up meaning the pendrive isn't detected, when it is re-detected the pendrive is place below the HDD in boot order and so on
<directhex> davmor2, that's uefi fast boot. turn that off.
<BigRedS> that's an implementation issue rather than a uefi or secure boot issue per se, isn't it?
<directhex> fast boot on my thinkpad boots ubuntu by default
<davmor2> directhex: there is no option for it on this machine
<BigRedS> I don't really mind jumping through one hoop when I want to install an OS in order that the other billion boots are quicker
<directhex> on the thinkpad, under the "startup" menu, "boot mode" is set to "quick"
<davmor2> directhex: but this was testing the UEFI on it's default setting to report the issues to the Ubuntu devs
<directhex> it's nothing to do with usb receiving power, btw
<davmor2> directhex: the only thing I have on the ideapad is OS Optimized Defaults [Win8 64bit]
<davmor2> directhex: it was it was booting before the usbpendrive had start
<davmor2> ed
<directhex> of course. it's doing fast boot. that's intentional.
<davmor2> directhex: but on this machine you can't turn off fastboot
<davmor2> directhex: also if the pendrive powered up before the machine booted windows it did the right thing it was just trying to get it to power up twice on the trot in order to select it as primary boot the first time and then boot from it the second
<davmor2> directhex: it's wasn't the best experience :(
<davmor2> directhex: from DVD though it worked flawlessly
<directhex> http://sdrv.ms/YcOrCN
<directhex> davmor2, so when pressing the "select boot device" button with a usb drive plugged in, it won't let you pick the usb device?
<ali1234> heh, remember when you had to solder a bigger capacitor on your amiga so that it would wait longer for hd to spin up? nothing ever changes
<davmor2> directhex: there isn't a select boot device button I hit ever option I could fine F2 goes into the UEFI/Bios screen and that is it
<ali1234> well except that you can't just solder on a bigger capacitor these days
<davmor2> s/fine/find
<directhex> davmor2, and the windows 8 boot manager? should let you do all kinds of things, e.g. boot arbitrary uefi apps from usb
<directhex> http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-43-metablogapi/0407.1_2D002D00_Boot_2D00_Options_2D00_menu_5F00_0F869C74.jpg
<davmor2> directhex: possibly but it's default is to boot windows 8 which it starts doing before you get chance to tell it to do anything else.  Never seen that page at all
<directhex> davmor2, Settings, Change PC Settings, General, Advanced Start Up
<davmor2> directhex: nice, I'll keep that in mind.  However that doesn't take away from the fact that UEFI is going to be a pain for a lot of novice users trying to install Ubuntu for the first time which is the issue we were trying to resolve by gaining data on it
<directhex> davmor2, and i'm giving you data. every uefi implementation is different and badly behaved - the only thing which is the same for every single person is windows boot manager.
<davmor2> directhex: indeed, and it is far easier then running the gauntlet with UEFI,  which then takes you back to UEFI sucks ;)
<directhex> well, how about simply announcing "ubuntu doesn't support computers made after 2012" - that'd be the simplest way to avoid UEFI support issues
<directhex> 2006 if you include (uefi-based) intel macs
<directhex> around 2006ish if you include MSI's "clickbios" uefi, which they shipped for years before any os would boot on it
<davmor2> directhex: hahaha, to be honest if all UEFI systems included a press F11 to change boot device no of this would be an issue
<directhex> sadly, "boot device list" is a toggle which is off by default on here. and not available on most.
<BigRedS> I really wish that UEFI secureboot talk at fosdem was actually about UEFI and not Monsanto...
<directhex> BigRedS got it in one though - this stuff involves hoops to speed up boot. every second the system is waiting for user input rather than booting is a wasted second any time you *don't* want to change things
<davmor2> directhex: indeed, it appears to me that the manufactures + MS are trying hard to make it stick to the OS version they install to make the user/support/ms's lives easier.  Which to be fair I think is a good idea, but then those users are never likely to be playing with the bios/uefi anyway.  Catch 22 I guess
<directhex> davmor2, my thinkpad boots the first uefi application alphabetically. "ubuntu" is earlier than "Windows Boot Manager" :D
<BigRedS> nah, it should be easy to break my own things, it should just be obvious that once I've done that it's my fault.
<BigRedS> Didn't macs solve the waiting issue about a billion years ago by having you hold down the 'c' key or something if you didn't want it to just get into OSX as soon as possible?
<davmor2> directhex: I'm assuming mine would if I had dual booted
<Laney> oh come on snow
<Laney> I have to cycle to town
<directhex> BigRedS, apple's firmware engineers are less moronic than the average taiwanese odm
<davmor2> bigcalm: ^ does all that answer your Why by the way :)
<ali1234> it's funny because i had exactly this conversation with the meego devs
<ali1234> them: "we can't have a boot menu because it would slow down the boot"
<ali1234> me: "just check for a held key like grub does"
<directhex> some keyboard controllers are a bit broken, and interpret "held key" at boot as "broken keyboard, disable keyboard support"
<MartijnVdS> "But someone could be holding it accidentally"
<BigRedS> directhex: yeah. I'm astonished at how much of a not-standard uefi has turned out to be
<directhex> BigRedS, it doesn't matter if it's a standard. the people doing the implementation are the cheapest pay-per-hour coders in india, subcontracted by already cheap people in taiwan
<davmor2> BigRedS: I'm not MS had something to do with it, they force ooxml on us and then don't follow their own standard ;)
<davmor2> directhex: no to mention the fact that if one bios/UEFI is a cent cheaper they will switch
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, but so far I've managed to avoid ooxml. Bioses are things I interact with daily and I'm really not looking forward to 'u'efi arriving...
<directhex> am i the only person here who's been using efi fine for years?
<directhex> as in since 2006?
<BigRedS> nah, there's several macbooks in here aren't there/
<davmor2> directhex: I have no issues with the system once the OS I want to use is on, it's just the getting on that is the issue :)
<davmor2> directhex: to be fair I think it has some nice features over the bios especially if you get a asus mb with the pretty gfx UEFI
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I had pretty GFX in my bios
<MartijnVdS> but the bios was really showing its age, from an API-side
<MartijnVdS> so _something_ had to be done.. I don't know if UEFI is the best :)
<directhex> it's simple, guys
<directhex> bios only works in 16-bit
<directhex> we won't have 16-bit-capable processors for ever
<directhex> efi began because itanium isn't 16-bit-capable
<davmor2> directhex: :D
<directhex> that's not me being a smartarse, that's the potted history. bios is 16 bit. bios boot is 16 bit.
<directhex> amd64 processors can act as 64/32-bit, ot 16/32-bit
<directhex> so they can do the 80186 boot
<davmor2> directhex: Oh I agree,  I think it's just missing some minor things that would make it and Ideal replacement.
<ali1234> UEFI missing things?
<ali1234> people usually complain it is too complicated
<Dave2> the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive
<cliftonts> Hi all
<cliftonts> Save me! I'm setting up machines for a company and it's driving me crazy!
<cliftonts> I think a monkey designed their software suite
<cliftonts> Well, you are a chatty lot!
<BigRedS> you didn't really offer a means for us to save you
<cliftonts> I'm not sure there is an easy way
<cliftonts> win 7 with some dodgy custom package management system bolted on
<cliftonts> I've been trying to install anti-virus for an hour now and it keeps failing
<shauno> custom package management makes me cringe.  my work machine has been trying (and failing) to install some .net updates on the hour, every hour, for 3 weeks now
<cliftonts> get this one, the download of anti virus kept failing and the pc needed a reboot anyway so I thought why not
<ixxvil> hi
<cliftonts> I now can't download the anti virus because I'm not logged in, logging in tells me not having anti virus is a violation of the terms of service and kicks me out!
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<cliftonts> I do sometimes wonder if Linux is a curse. It makes working with windows such a headache when you know there is a better way.
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: I don't mind Windows 7, as long as I get to install and manage it myself
<MartijnVdS> oh and it should run on SSD so it's actually quick
<MartijnVdS> (and for some things linux is way superior, like debugging network problems etc.)
<cliftonts> This time it's not Linux as such, but the methodology behind it. I mean this would be much easier to have a ready made custom install cd
<cliftonts> or perhaps all the software in a repository, I'll take tick, tick, tick apply!
<cliftonts> And everything is locked down. The email system is so custom you'd never be able to use it on linux because it has been designed to lock the company in to it's supplier
<madfish> exit
<cliftonts> eh?
<OliveiraBorges> anybody help me how to configure streaming live
<ubuntubhoy> davmor2: if you are about are you able to offer any more advice mate ?
<cliftonts> It's not really my speciality but perhaps it might help to give a little more info. What software you are trying to use, is this within your own network or over the net? etc
<ubuntubhoy> got to a point where it is stuck on 'wireless is disabled by hardware switch'
<ubuntubhoy> after installing the firmware and blacklisting what I think I have to
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: rfkill list all
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: then try sudo rfkill unblock all
<cliftonts> Aah, so it's not the streaming that's the problem, but the network connection
<ubuntubhoy> K
<ubuntubhoy> davmor2: no change, but list states that it is hard block
<ixxvil> totally stuck on this one
<ixxvil> any ideas anyone
<ixxvil> how do you password protect a dir with forced ssl
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: have you tried hitting the button to enable wifi?
<ixxvil> ive got ssl installed, ssl is running just fine
<ixxvil> the certs are in place
<ixxvil> but the dir just wont give me a login page
<ixxvil> if i remove the ssl, it seems to work
<ubuntubhoy> Dave2: yeah, it works fine in Win
<ubuntubhoy> grr
<jpds> ixxvil: I think you're confusing SSL with password auth.
<ubuntubhoy> davmor2: ^^
<ixxvil> jpds:  no im not
<ixxvil> jpds: ive got a password auth htaccess file in place for the dir i want protected
<ixxvil> it works without ssl
<ixxvil> moment i turn ssl on it just doesnt,
<BigRedS> apart from the SSL* directives what's different in your SSL vhost from your cleartext one?
<ubuntubhoy> davmor2: Thanks for the help mate - gonna re-install and see if I get better from clean incase anything I have previously done has caused it
<BigRedS> what do you get instead of the login page?
<ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39122
<ixxvil> this is what i have in my htaccess file
<BigRedS> and are you expecting a login page (i.e. some code you wrote that makes a webpage) or a login box (the browser's built-in pop-up box asking for a password)?
<ixxvil> just the browser's popup
<BigRedS> what do you have in your vhost config?
<ixxvil> you mean default-ssl?
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: when you do select install 3rd party drivers and connect it to the internet via a cable if you can
<BigRedS> only if you're hitting the default ssl vhost
<ixxvil> where is this vhost config file?
<BigRedS> when you use SSL do you get the page that's behind the auth, just without the auth, or do you go somewhere completely different?
<ixxvil> i ve been googling and some people mention a vhost.conf
<ixxvil> there isnt one here, but i do have in etc/apache2/sites-available/default-ssl
<BigRedS> normally you'll have a file in /etc/apache2/sites-available that defines your vhost and you will have enabled it with a2ensite
<BigRedS> you might have just edited the defaults
<ixxvil> yes sites-available
<BigRedS> but exactly how you did it isn't that important. What is important is that the SSL vhost is the same as the non-SSL one
<BigRedS> it sounds like you've got different DocumentRoots, depending on what it is that you *do* see on the SSL  connection
<BigRedS> (obviously the SSL vhost will have the SSL* directives (SSLCertificateFile, SSLCertificateKeyFile etc.) different, but the rest should be the same
<ixxvil> if im using ssl
<ixxvil> the big lock and the cert is up there
<ixxvil> ssl works
<ixxvil> the popup page doesnt come up
<BigRedS> what does come up?
<BigRedS> the page you're trying to protect?
<BigRedS> some other page?
<ixxvil> the directory is wide open, it doesnt ask for a usernmae or pass
<ixxvil> no
<ixxvil> it opens the directory... its not paswd protected
<BigRedS> but the directory you want to hide, or a different one?
<ixxvil> the one i want to hide
<BigRedS> okay, so they're serving from the same place. Have you any AllowOverride directives in either vhost?
<ixxvil> i dont know what this vhost
<ixxvil> do you mean default-ssl?
<BigRedS> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/vhosts/
<BigRedS> vhost is a feature of apache, which that page sort-of explains at the top
<BigRedS> default-ssl is a file. It by default contains a single vhost definition
<ixxvil> thats all good to know
<ixxvil> what should i be look at and where?
<ixxvil> looking at
<ixxvil> default-ssl has a directive
<ixxvil> for var/www
<BigRedS> are you looking to just get this working, or use this to learn about apache?
<ixxvil> to get it working
<BigRedS> cool, post your default-ssl config on pastebin and I'll see if I can see what's broken :)
<ixxvil> ok cool
<ixxvil> thanks
<BigRedS> ah, also the normal 'default' one, unless you created another file for the cleartext vhost
<ixxvil> the default one or the default-ssl
<BigRedS> both
<ixxvil> default-ssl has the modified stuff
<ixxvil> about the ca and the key etc
<BigRedS> yeah, those're just paths to the files, though, aren't they?
<BigRedS> If you want to edit those lines out or something go for it ; I don't need to know what they've got
<ixxvil> its been edited and it's been working
<ixxvil> i didnt change anything else
<BigRedS> Right. Basically, when you hit your server on port 443 Apache serves up pages according to what's in default-ssl, and so does it over SSL. When you hit it on port 80 it follows whats in default.
<BigRedS> Some difference between the two is causing it to not honour your auth
<BigRedS> likely, -ssl is missing an AllowOverride (though that should raise an error), pointing at the wrong dir (though you've already said it isn't) or something that I've not yet thought of
<BigRedS> it's hard to guess what else without looking at your actual config
<ubuntubhoy> davmor2: working a treat now - cheers for the help.
<ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39123
<ixxvil> thats default-ssl
<ixxvil> well
<ixxvil> i switched it from 80 to 443
<ixxvil> and it didnt work either
<ixxvil> besides i should've been using 443 there, cause i want it to go through ssl first and then to the login page
<BigRedS> default-ssl should never have been :80
<BigRedS> go though ssl first?
<jpds> BigRedS: Make sure the auth is behind SSL.
<ixxvil> not sure where it says 80 except in my htaccess file
<ixxvil> jpds: yeah thats what ive been reading
<ixxvil> the ssl should kick in first or something
<BigRedS> the browser opens an SSL tunnel and then sends http down it
<BigRedS> when using https
<BigRedS> the directory you wish to protect, is that in /var/www?
<ixxvil> yes
<ixxvil> var/www/dir
<BigRedS> The "AllowOverride None" in "<Directory /var/www/>" probably isn't helping
<BigRedS> I think you want AllowOverride AuthConfig
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, I spoke to your hr person at uds :)
<BigRedS> jpds ^
<BigRedS> we asked for you back :)
<ixxvil> o changed it
<ixxvil> restarted apache
<ixxvil> yeah still nothing
<BigRedS> ixxvil: did it help?>
<ixxvil> no login page
<Azelphur> https://twitter.com/Azelphur/status/301704335052660737 ah, templating.
<jpds> BigRedS: Heh. :)
<ixxvil> double checked
<ixxvil> not getting it
<BigRedS> jpds: she said no :(
<BigRedS> ixxvil: so it's just serving the index of that /var/www/dir?
<jpds> BigRedS: In another circumstance "I spoke to your HR person" would set a different tone.
<jpds> BigRedS: I can't imagine why.
<BigRedS> hahaha
<BigRedS> I was a tad drunk on canonical-funded wine :)
<ixxvil> yeah
<czajkowski> BigRedS: such a lush :p
<ixxvil> its just showing the same dir with 1 file in it
<czajkowski> anyone coming to http://hackntalk.eventbrite.com/  we could have  a bug jam there during some of the day if we had interested people
<BigRedS> ixxvil: does the dir you're after have only one file in it? It might be best to see the default config (the cleartext vhost) since that one is doing what you want it to
<BigRedS> isn't it?
<BigRedS> czajkowski: I should be there
<czajkowski> yay
<ixxvil> the default config?
<czajkowski> now we just need a laney to keep us entertained and it'll be like the last one
<ixxvil> what do you mean
<Laney> WOT
<ixxvil> the dir im after has only 1 file in it because i put only 1 file there
<BigRedS> it's the first weekend after I move to London, and I can't think what would've gone wrong enough for me to not be able to get there
<BigRedS> ixxvil: cool. Just checking you're seeing all the files in the dir
<Laney> interesting
<ixxvil> ye
<Laney> i will probably be in london the day after that
<ixxvil> so did a few others
<BigRedS> ixxvil: yeah, the config for the non-ssl vhost. /etc/apache2/sites-available/default
<ixxvil> default looks like default, it barely has anything but a few directives but i can paste it
<BigRedS> czajkowski: Nah, I'm looking forward to spending the day laughing at you getting frustrated by computers
<czajkowski> BigRedS: shall be on my best behaviour
<jpds> BigRedS: So, everyday?
<czajkowski> there are 38 people signed up for this
<czajkowski> I've room for 70
<BigRedS> ixxvil: yeah, please. I don't have a ubuntu server handy and it's probably different from Debian by enough to be annoying :)
<BigRedS> czajkowski: pft. I bet that'll change
<czajkowski> BigRedS: I dont want numbers to drop so no :)
<BigRedS> hahaha
<BigRedS> czajkowski: bill it as a feature!
<ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39124
<czajkowski> bah
<BigRedS> ixxvil: ta! hang on a mo!
<Azelphur> I just realised, I broke every single aspect of TalkTalk, at every single step of the way
<Azelphur> dam me and my continual breaking of things :(
<czajkowski> Azelphur: tis ok I break things too
<czajkowski> badly usually
<czajkowski> :/
<Azelphur> lol
<czajkowski> davmor2: mocks me when I do
<czajkowski> I'll get him on your larting case
<Azelphur> czajkowski: but I broke their signup system, line allocation, phone system, and newsletter system
<Azelphur> I don't think there's anything else to break
<Azelphur> xD
<czajkowski> you say this
<czajkowski> that's surely a challenge
<davmor2> czajkowski: No I mock you because all you do is use it, everyone else tries to break it and can't :P
<BigRedS> ixxvil: apart from "AllowOverride All" vs "AllowOverride None" I can't see anything
<BigRedS> which is annoying. I get this far too frequently with apache :(
<czajkowski> davmor2: I'm a good test case
<BigRedS> and, if you're now at least allowing AuthConfig to be overridden that shouldn't be an issue
<davmor2> czajkowski: No you're not because nobody else can reproduce it :P
<BigRedS> jpds: every day?
<ixxvil> well from google
<ixxvil> some of them say to modify the vhosts conf
<jpds> BigRedS: "getting frustrated by computers".
<ixxvil> and adding a directive entry
<BigRedS> ixxvil: that sounds centosy
<BigRedS> this sites-enabled thing is a debianism
<BigRedS> well, or just old. Apache 1.x was all about /etc/apache/vhosts.conf
<ixxvil> wait
<BigRedS> really, I'd get the chapter on webservers out of a "how to do ubuntu servers" book
<ixxvil> you want me to change default-ssl Allow to Auth
<BigRedS> yeah
<ixxvil> and then in default what?
<BigRedS> jpds: ah! Yeah, so I hear. I only get to see it infrequently
<BigRedS> but it's among my favourite spectacles
<ixxvil> with authconfig nothing happened
<ixxvil> is there anything i need to change in /default?
<BigRedS> come on now, *something* happened :)
<OliveiraBorges> how to i make a streaming server live with webcam using linux server like that (my pc-windows-   ->  linux server  -> customers)
<BigRedS> nah, default's working :)
<ixxvil> what about the haccess file?
<ixxvil> that looks right?
<ixxvil> i suspect it's that htaccess file
<ixxvil> maybe it needs to go into the web root dir? var/www?
<BigRedS> where is it now?
<ixxvil> in the dir i want to protect
<BigRedS> yeah, .htaccess looked right I think. What was the url to that again?
<BigRedS> no, that's fine
<ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39123
<BigRedS> it affects the directory it's in and any subdirs, so that's the right place for it
<ixxvil> ye but the ssl part might have to go into var/www?
<ixxvil> most of google thats what they're doing, adding the ssl part as a directive
<BigRedS> oh yeah, I've never seen that SSL directive before
<BigRedS> I remember now
<BigRedS> what happens if you take that out, but visit the site via SSL?
<ixxvil> let me try
<ixxvil> nothing
<BigRedS> I bet what's happening isn't "nothing"
<ixxvil> well there isnt a auth page
<ixxvil> after removing the ssl part
<BigRedS> ah, so quite a lot happens. It lets you view the contents of the directory
<BigRedS> hm, and this is with https:// at teh beginning of the url?
<ixxvil> of course
<BigRedS> cool. Just checking :)
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm stumped
<ixxvil> Apache/2.2.22 (Ubuntu) Server at yadayada.com Port 443
<ixxvil> thats from the bototm of that dir
<ixxvil> so ssl is working
<BigRedS> yeah
<ixxvil> oh after removing the ssl
<ixxvil> i might need to restart apache i guess?
<BigRedS> not in the .htaccess file
<BigRedS> well, sometimes you do, but you shouldn't need to
<ixxvil> yeah no difference
 * popey pokes xnox 
 * xnox pokes popey
<popey> getting core installer popup when I plug my iphone in! :D
<popey> optimistic
<xnox> popey: awesome. and the upgrade that fixes that got superseeded.
<popey> \o/
 * xnox should re-upload a fix.
 * popey unpokes
<xnox> popey: in the mean time replace /etc/init/usb-creator-gtk.conf with http://paste.ubuntu.com/1644310/
<xnox> popey: and let me know if that fixes it for you.
 * xnox will do an upload of that shortly
 * xnox unpokes
<popey> thanks!
 * mungbean_ finds his mod has improved since putting slothstranaut on his picture frame on his desk
<ixxvil> BigRedS: apache folks say to use a directory block
<ixxvil> its preffered
<ixxvil> etc etc
<BigRedS> ixxvil: for what?
<BigRedS> auth?
<ixxvil> BigRedS: yeah
<BigRedS> Ah. It shouldn't make any difference functionally, but I guess it's worth a pop. That'll at least get around any AllowOverride funny business
<ixxvil> yeha buti dunno how
<ixxvil> and last time i messed with it it broke my vhost file
<ixxvil> 19:28 < thumbs> ixxvil: you don't have HTTP auth directives in your :443 vhost.
<ixxvil> you need to place the auth directives in the appropriate <Directory> block in your vhost.
<ixxvil> any idea how?
<ixxvil>  http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/PasswordBasicAuth basicall this
<BigRedS> copy what's in the vhost file into a <directory> block
<BigRedS> you can give apache directives that only apply to files and directories in a directory
<BigRedS> you've already got a set there for /var/www
<BigRedS> you could make another <Directory /var/www/whatever> block, and put the content of your htaccess into it
<ixxvil> but they say i dont need htaccess
<ixxvil> if i have a directory block
<BigRedS> well, not if you do it this way
<ixxvil> and it seems htaccess slows performance
<ixxvil> ok
<BigRedS> hah, yeah arguably it does
<BigRedS> functionally, though, the two should be identical
<BigRedS> a .htaccess file is basically a <directory> block for the dir its in
<BigRedS> but it needs to be allowed to override stuff
<BigRedS> that's what the AllowOverride directive does - sets what .htaccess files are allowed to change
<ixxvil> so under directory var wwwi make another one?
<BigRedS> yeah
 * popey wonders if AlanBell's printer has arrived
<ixxvil> andhttp://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39125
<ixxvil> so like that
<ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39125
<ixxvil> ?
<ixxvil> is that right?
<ali1234> why does the topic say: â â â â â â â¿
<BigRedS> ixxvil: looks right
<ali1234> it looks like two snowmen pelting a disabled person with snowballs
<BigRedS> ixxvil: though weren't you going to put teh content of the .htaccess in that directory block?
<ixxvil> like what
<BigRedS> Oh. My terminal can now do unicode
<ixxvil> based in the link
<BigRedS> authtype basic; authname whatever; authuserfile /etc/apache2/passwd etc.
<ixxvil> it says the htaccess file goes in the dir i want to protect
<BigRedS> okay, cool
<BigRedS> yeah, that's fine, too :)
<ixxvil> oh
<ixxvil> it says i have to make a directory block for the htaccess too?
<BigRedS> huh?
<BigRedS> what's 'it' here?
<ixxvil> ohn it's two recipes
<ixxvil> one using the htacccess stuff as a directory block
<ixxvil> or
<ixxvil> using the htaccess file in the dir i want protected + a separate directory block in the vhost
<BigRedS> yeah. which one are you doing?
<ixxvil> errored
<ixxvil> pache2: Syntax error on line 237 of /etc/apache2/apache2.conf: Syntax error on line 16 of /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/000-default-ssl: Expected </VirtualHost> but saw </Directory>
<ixxvil> o fixed
<ixxvil> i had an extra </Directory>
<ixxvil> im getting the auth page!
<ixxvil> but its not accepting the password
<BigRedS> oh, cool
<BigRedS> Is it saying the right thing? Your browser will say something like "The page at whatever says: XXXX" where XXXX is what comes after AuthName
<BigRedS> in your config
<ixxvil> Please contact the server administrator, webmaster@localhost and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
<ixxvil> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
<ixxvil> [Wed Feb 13 08:22:25 2013] [error] [client 108.44.29.77] (2)No such file or directory: Could not open password file: /etc/ap$
<ixxvil> thats /etc/apache/passwords?
<ixxvil> should it be .htpasswd?
<ixxvil> IT WORKS
<ixxvil> i mispelt etc/apache2/password
<ixxvil> whene it was passwords
<ixxvil> <- GENIUSSSSS
<BigRedS> aha, cool
<BigRedS> I've no idea why that worked
<BigRedS> but it did, and sometimes apache is like that
<ixxvil> they say it has to go in the directory block for 443 to pick up or some shit
<ixxvil> alright thanks BigRedS
<ixxvil> :D
<ixxvil> later
<BigRedS> haha, I don't think I did anything, but I'll take the credit :)
<Azelphur> wtf
<Azelphur> talktalk are putting me on hold for 45 minutes
<Azelphur> "May I please put you on hold for 45 minutes while I check the line"
<Azelphur> I'm not even joking right now
<penguin42> impressive
<Azelphur> yea, I'm pretty pissed at them, they made me wait 3 months for an engineer to come out and connect me, only to not send the engineer
<Azelphur> then they registered it as a fault on the line and sent an engineer to repair it
<Azelphur> and the engineer says there's nothing for me to repair because they didn't send an engineer out to fit it, and that it's a common problem with talktalk (And only talktalk) that they do to avoid paying for a line to be fitted.
<shauno> that 45 minutes is usually because callcenters are run by accountants
<Azelphur> fun
<shauno> they can't spend 45 minutes on market as not ready to take a call, because some beancounter will be measuring it.  so if they need to spend 45 minutes on an issue, it's easier to keep you on the phone.  else they take a beancounter hit, or the phone rings again
<shauno> it's not because they actually need you on the phone :/
<shauno> er, marked, not market.  love when typos make real words.
<BigRedS> ah, that makes more sense with that correction :)
<Myrtti> they wanted to move us to residential plan and to pay 15pounds a month instead of 7. "but you get 6 months for free" doh
<shauno> I swear I don't speak english anymore.  it started out as "marked not ready" in my head, and gained some spare words in the translation
<Azelphur> fun, think I might have made some progress after getting put through to a manager
<Azelphur> basically they were supposed to send someone out to fit my line, didn't, and then they sent an engineer out to repair it to try and avoid costs, engineer specifically told me it's a common thing and only happens with talktalk
<MartijnVdS> Weird
<shauno> I wonder if repairs get billed to someone else (eg BT)
<Azelphur> that's what the openreach guy said
<Azelphur> repairs are BT, new lines are TalkTalk
<Azelphur> so they try and send them out on repairs when people have no lines to get them to fit lines
<shauno> right.  the connection is their business, but if BT own the lines, maintaining them is theirs.  so they're playing a game to have someone else pick up the tab.  awkward
<Azelphur> yep, not happy.
<penguin42> the intention of splitting Openreach off from BT was to stop BT having the advantage in being able to get lines done/fixed quickly; the downside is it's now just as bad for everyone
<shauno> it's quite clever, but what was the point of waiting months for the install if they had no intention of showing?
<shauno> surely they could schedule imaginary appointments any time they liked
<Azelphur> shauno: indeed, annoying as fuck xD
<shauno> I'm surprised to say I'm quite happy with UPC (nee NTL).  ordered a new install, got a text message by the end of the day telling me they'd be between 10-11am the next day.  they showed up when they send they would, and I have 100meg by lunch
<MartijnVdS> â¥ Reggefiber ;)
<MartijnVdS> precioussss 100/100
<shauno> 100/10, but it does me fine
<MartijnVdS> I need to start producing videos now I have the bandwidth to upload them :)
<shauno> self-install is fantastic though.  they've finally admitted that it's not that difficult, and DPD have better service than a truck roll
<MartijnVdS> Officially, I had to wait for someone to come around and install it
<MartijnVdS> but I work for my ISP, and my colleagues told me it's easy to do.. so I did it myself :)
<penguin42> does anyone know on T-mobile PAYG hth you figure out the day on which your internet topup ends?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: BA or AL to 150?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/help-and-support/index?page=html&cat=CONTACTUS
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: It just tells me I've got it, not the last day of it
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: so call them, ask for a human
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I doubt I'll get any further to be honest
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: ask their twitter team, they'll be able to tell you where to look :)
<MartijnVdS> angry tweets = public = fix nao
<penguin42> haha possibly
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: The best way to get a real problem fixed (besides contacting one of the "consumer watchdog" TV programs) is tweeting about it, and mentioning their "Web care" account
 * penguin42 really should sign up for a twitter account I guess
<jacobw> hi, can i use an external node classifer only for a particular environment?
<jacobw> wrong channel
<Azelphur> giving TalkTalk a tongue lashing on their forums, http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=955739#post955739 xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: Ask for references for Openreach job numbers/booking numbers (not sure what their exact terms are)
<penguin42> Azelphur: The problem with all this stuff is that since both sides are equally hopeless it's almost impossible to figure out who is screwing it up
<Azelphur> indeed \o/
<Azelphur> at least I can publicly humiliate them.
<penguin42> Azelphur: There are companies like Andrews & Arnold who make it their business to sort out Openreach screwups - but they do cost a bit
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> the openreach engineer also said I might not even be able to get a connection because the pole is full
<penguin42> Azelphur: they normally have ways, but it'll take a bit of bitching
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I shall continue to bitch at increasing levels until they do something about it
<penguin42> Azelphur: I'd get the line provisioned via BT rather than talktalk
<Azelphur> I'm in contract with talktalk unfortunately
<penguin42> but they've failed to fulfil?
 * Azelphur shrugs
<penguin42> Azelphur: I'd also ask Ofcom about it
<Azelphur> if it goes on much longer I may cancel and switch ISP
<Azelphur> will see what they get back to me with in 48 hours about getting me connected
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you seem to have _a_ connection to the interwebs
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, my brother lives next door, chucked 30m of outdoor grade ethernet out the window.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ð
<Azelphur> xD
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: nah xD =~ ð
<MartijnVdS> or ð£
<Azelphur> hehe, I need to get an addon for that
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: get the "symbola" font from here: http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or install the "Droid" font family
<Azelphur> I have the font :p
<MartijnVdS> gucharmap -> "Emoticons" blcok
<MartijnVdS> block*
<Azelphur> I assume you have something that does xD -> ð
<MartijnVdS> I do not.
<Azelphur> or are you just doing lots of clicking?
<Azelphur> oh
<MartijnVdS> I look at the gucharmap thing, then copy/paste single characters
<Azelphur> :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: popey has the scripts
<Azelphur> probably not for pidgin though, pidgin needs a python API :(
<bigcalm> Boo!
<ali1234> Azelphur: you cannot publicly humiliate talktalk any worse than they already have been. they are total rubbish
<Azelphur> xD
<penguin42> not unless they started delivering you horse burgers
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: hors d'oeuvres?
<shauno> I found an article today, sweden asking questions about 9,000 missing horses .. per year.  made me chuckle
<penguin42> haha
<shauno> "Sweden's 9,000 missing horses baffle experts"  http://www.thelocal.se/46170/20130213/
<ali1234> looooool really?
<shauno> just seemed like a very awkward moment to be the guy in the corner going "erm, has anyone seen my horse?"
<shauno> (although they are hypothetical horses, it's just comparing the expected life span / death rate vs the number of licenses issued to bury them)
<ali1234> does it really take an expert here to put 2 and 2 together?
<ali1234> DAE search google news for "over 9000" periodically?
<MartijnVdS> .. noooo?
<shauno> the whole thing's pretty barmy though.  the issue isn't really that they're horses.  it's that if they'd actually been reared for human consumption (free of various medications that don't sit well with humans), they'd be worth more than the meat they're filling
<ali1234> yeah it does seem a bit suspicious that an animal which is bred for working is going cheaper than an animal bred specicially to efficiently produce meat
<shauno> it's only cheaper than beef if it's "mystery meat".  if it's actually fit for consumption, it wouldn't be economical to pad beef with it
<ali1234> i bought some really cheap steaks in lidl once and i'm sure they were not beef. even at the time they seemed a bit weird.
<ali1234> still ate them though.
<MartijnVdS> everything I've ever eaten from lidl was "a bit weird"
<MartijnVdS> it never tastes as it should
<shauno> this is a valid point
<ali1234> some of their stuff is great
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: their wine, after a few bottles?
<ali1234> the steaks were ok, they just didn't taste like beef.
<ali1234> they didn't kill me or anything :)
<MartijnVdS> but they made you into the man you are today!
<ali1234> partially
<shauno> I guess it does mean they've flat-out proven that all the tracability steps they put in after the whole mad cow mess, only work on paper
<ali1234> best lidl food item is their frozen pizzas which are like the high end super market luxury ones, but at the "value range" price
<shauno> they can't claim they can prove where the cow came from, if they can't prove it's a cow
<ali1234> yeah, totally
<ali1234> it's extra ironic that french factories are involved after they made all that stink over british meat
<shauno> we still get side effects of that here.  most the meat in my fridge contains at least 3 different claims that it's entirely sourced, handled and tracable within ireland
<shauno> I'm sure it won't be long until they add "we promise it's beef" logos to the mess
<AlanBell> popey: nope, not arrived yet
<AlanBell> ali1234: um, interesting point about the topic
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 16/02/2013 20:00 | ubuntuî¿
<bigcalm> Cor
<bigcalm> A weekend no less!
<AlanBell> well yeah, lets try that
 * bigcalm adds it to his calendar
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: at work we came up with "HAL 9001: It's Over 9000!"
<AlanBell> it goes to 9001 \o/ that is one better than 9000
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: except it takes 3 episodes to get there
<Myrtti> popey: http://offbeathome.com/2013/02/bringing-home-baby-reptile-edition-a-guide-to-owning-your-first-reptile
<directhex> dead monitor /o\
<popey> oh golly
<popey> czajkowski: decided to have butter + lemon + sugar
<popey> nom
<popey> directhex: didnt you just buy one?
<directhex> popey, for the wife
<popey> ah
<czajkowski> popey: tis good stuff :)
<popey> was!
<czajkowski> now if we could just get you liking the bacon and syrup it'd be all good
<Daviey> bacon and syrup ?!
<Daviey> get a grip.
<czajkowski> maple syrup
<Daviey> czajkowski: take a long hard look at what you just said.
<bigcalm> Maple syrup is wonderful. Not sure about having it with bacon though
<popey> bacon and syrup is just flat out wrong
<bigcalm> I'm glad that there is some sanity in here
<Azelphur> I've tried fish fingers and custard
<Azelphur> xD
<bigcalm> Azelphur: and?
<Azelphur> it was good.
<shauno> bacon and maple syrup actually works.  sausages, less so.
<Azelphur> 10/10 would eat again.
<Azelphur> xD
<bigcalm> Hehe
<czajkowski> custard and fig rolls in a microwave for 1 min = yummyness
<ali1234> Azelphur: you mean breaded fish fillets in white sauce with vanilla essence
<Azelphur> aka fish fingers and custard, yea
<ali1234> only the vanilla is really "wrong" but vanilla goes with everything
<Elysium> Any mods in here?
<popey> Elysium: wassup?
<madfish> bah...work have enabled a draconian firewall policy. No direct ssh or tunneling. Now using gateone on my vps but remarkably useable
<popey> madfish: ssh on port 443?
<Elysium> I need to reset my nickserv password mate, ive installed ubuntu alongside windows, my password works fine on Windows mIRC, come on XChat on Linux and apparently it's invalid.
<popey> ah, that sounds like a job for #freenode
<madfish> popey: tried and getting errors. I've tried corkscrew and even ip over dns as a last resort. No dice. I only need to admin a couple of VPS's
<Elysium> whos #freenode?
<Elysium> lol
<popey> its a channel
<popey>  /join #freenode
<popey> madfish: is it an NTLM windows authenticating proxy?
<Elysium>  /join #freenode
<Azelphur> Elysium: without the space at the beginning ;)
<popey> without the space in front
<Elysium> get there in the end ;)
<Azelphur> took a screenshot of my desktop at the moment for showing off purposes, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2013/Jan/2013-02-13-220306_10240x1440_scrot.png
<Azelphur> those of you without widescreen monitors, I pity you. :p
<shauno> good lord.  someone really needs to teach you alt+tab.  I see what you're trying to do, and it's been solved years ago
<dwatkins> I used to have terminals arranged like that, then I discovered Screen ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> don't hate my non-tabbing ways.
<directhex> i can't taste a goddamn thing
<dwatkins> eat an onion
<madfish> popey: I think so. I've tracked down the proxy IP and port but get an ISA proxy error in putty for windows
<popey> madfish: there's a python based local proxy you can run which can do ntlm
<popey> http://ntlmaps.sourceforge.net/
<madfish> popey: ooh. Looks promising. Using gateone (not affiliated to it!) has been rather good as an emergency. html5/websockets goodness :) Might do a nodejs implementation
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-14
<knightwise> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o knightwise
<knightwise> hey MartijnVdS :) how are you dude
<MartijnVdS> waiting for the snow
<jacobw> morning
 * dwatkins looks out across the Pentlands at the blue sky
<dwatkins> no snow here, methinks
<kvarley> I get 403 forbidden on my new virtual host, I've chowned the directory recursively to kevin:www-data and have run chmod. Any ideas on why it is still complaining
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://buienradar.nl/
<neuro> ahhh the evil pentlands
<dwatkins> in fact it must be that rare day when the cloud cover is practically non-existant in Edinburgh
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: DirectoryIndex not allowed?
<dwatkins> neuro: they're evil? do they eat babies?
<neuro> um, yes?
<jacobw> kvarley: it's probably the virtual host, as MartijnVdS says
<neuro> they also creep around at night
<neuro> also, they're east of me, and anything east of me is Bad
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: I've found that (temporarily) enabling debug-level logging in Apache helps debugging things like this
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: DIrectoryIndex flag is not in my virtual host file at all heh
<neuro> anything west of me is Awesome
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: are we gonna need snowtroopers by the end of the day over herre ,
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: it's _verbose_
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: ah I see, http://uk.weather.com/weather/today-Edinburgh-UKXX0052 - scroll down for radar and how far I am from the storm ;)
<neuro> dwatkins: WHY ARE YOU WARMER THAN ME?
<neuro> http://uk.weather.com/weather/today/UKXX0820:1:UK
<MartijnVdS> warmer .. or HOTTER
<dwatkins> neuro: the Gulf Stream
<neuro> bah
<dwatkins> given the choice, I'd rather be too cold than too hot - if it's too cold, I can put extra layers on.
<neuro> true dat
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: if it's too hot you can take off clothes!
<jacobw> i always say that too, but still wish i was too hot when it's -10
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I tend to walk around in a t-shirt all year round
<dwatkins> I didn't even bother bringing my coat to work today
<neuro> nutter
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: How do I enable debug mode? :)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: look for "loglevel" in the docs/config .. I think you can set it per vhost.. but I'm not sure
<jacobw> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#loglevel
<kvarley> jacobw: Thanks I got it :)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Just says permission denied to /
<neuro> kvarley: do you have an index.html file in there?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: yes. but the error log should have a lot of info
<kvarley> neuro: No but Indexes is on
<kvarley> I needed to 775 my home dir
<kvarley> I had the correct permissions on the root folder itself
<kvarley> But it couldn't get down to the web root folder heh
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: 711 on ~ should be enough
<MartijnVdS> (rwx--x--x, or even 701 rwx-----x)
<neuro> kvarley: so you're sorted now?
 * jacobw procrastinates starting work proper
 * neuro has no work to start :(
<MartijnVdS> neuro: time to flood stackoverflow!
<neuro> pff
<jacobw> why flood stackoverflow?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: with good answers
<jacobw> oh
<kvarley> neuro: Yeah, ty & MartijnVds
<neuro> MartijnVdS: serverfault, maybe
<neuro> <- != developer
<jacobw> !self.developer
<jacobw> FTFY
<neuro> err, pfff :)
<neuro> i presume that's some sort of python
<jacobw> ha
<jacobw> 08:40:15 lubotu3 | Sorry, I don't know anything about 'self.developer'
<popey> Morning
<knightwise> hey popey  !
<Laney> thee's this glowing orb thing in the sky
<Laney> what's going on? i thought it was supposed to be grey!
<MartijnVdS> Laney: Lies!
 * popey has closed the blind so as not to be affected by the skyball
<MartijnVdS> â« Skyballlll
<jonsaint> hello all. can anyone recommend a programme for converting films ready to put onto a dvd? i used to use devede but it keeps crashing
<jonsaint> i cant get devede to work no more, keeps crashing, can anyone recommend an alternitive
<jonsaint> anyone??
<popey> jonsaint: be good to get devede fixed..
<mungbean_> handbrake?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: that's the other way around
<mungbean_> :S
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: what you're looking for is called "dvd authoring"
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: there are several tools for it available in the software centre
<mungbean_> i have 10 apps installed on my pc trying to do something simliar but never remember which one worked OK for me
<jacobw> mozilla autoconfig is ridiculously complicated
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: proxy autoconfig?
<jacobw> http://mit.edu/~thunderbird/www/maintainers/autoconfig.html
<jacobw> it's layers upons layers of half implemented mostly undocumented mechanisms for setting configuration values
<jacobw> http://www.coinheist.com/rubik/a_regular_crossword/grid.pdf
<jacobw> nice
<jonsaint> anyone recommend an alternitive to devede? mine keeps crashing!
<popey> jonsaint: what's wrong with devede?
<popey> i.e. at what point does it crash?
<jonsaint> popey, it just keeps crashing. sometimes it will go so far into it and lock up the pc, but most times it will let me add the film and when i click next it hangs a few seconds, turns grey and then closes
<popey> if it completely locks up the PC then that's a worry
<popey> does it not offer to send a crash report?
<jonsaint> not sure, when it comes up it just asks if i want it left close or relaunch. i think there was a crash report but not sure
<jonsaint> popey, so far its 26% done and all is well
<popey> ah, good
<popey> what version of ubuntu?
<jonsaint> latest one
<popey> which? 12.10?
<jonsaint> yes
<popey> when it crashes, do you get an option to see more details?
<popey> it might not be devede crashing but something underneath
<popey> be good to see what
<popey> are there any crash files in /var/crash ?
<jonsaint> i got terminal running as its doing it so i can see where it crashes
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<cliftonts> Morning all. I've got a bit of a problem I could do with some help with. I need to automate downloading of a file from a website but I need to log in first.
<cliftonts> I'm guessing there must be a wget type solution but how do I provide login credentials that way?
<SuperMatt> depends how the credentials are dealt with, I guess
<cliftonts> Ahh, I figured it out
<SuperMatt> well done
<cliftonts> I was leafing through the wget man page while waiting.
<cliftonts> But knowing the company that runs that website I really didn't expect it to be that simple!
<cliftonts> oh... it's not lol. I'm trying to download a csv but the link goes to nameoffile.asp. I've got to figure out the exact link to the csv now.
<SuperMatt> tbh, if the website is doing things like that, chances are they *really* don't want you downloading stuff automatically
<cliftonts> But this is a CSV provided for the purpose of automatically syncronising your website with theirs
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<mungbean_> has nayone else got really small tab/sheet names in libreoffice?
<MartijnVdS> I have a very crashy LO
<ali1234> !info overlay-scrollbar raring
<lubotu3> overlay-scrollbar (source: overlay-scrollbar): Scrollbar overlay. In component main, is optional. Version 0.2.16+r359daily13.02.06-0ubuntu1 (raring), package size 2 kB, installed size 51 kB
<cliftonts> AlanBell are you about?
<penguin42> haha - T-mobile managed to charge me 32p for 43kb of data in the couple of 2nds it took me to turn data off as my phone booted so I could figure out if my internet booster had run out
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: just because they bill per MB, right?
<MartijnVdS> and this is just the "1MB" price?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Not sure; it's a pain - they don't tell you when the booster finishes, so the only way to know for sure is to text AL to 150; so I switched on, turned off data, sent the text
<kvarley> Any ideas why I can only select a maximum resolution of 1600x900 on my laptop? I've disabled my laptop screen and have enabled an external monitor that is capable of 1080p resolution. I'm running proprietary AMD drivers
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they don't tell you? is that even allowed?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I doubt it
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: It's '6 months' so it does seem to be 6 calendar months
<MartijnVdS> to the day?
<MartijnVdS> I have odafone
<penguin42> looks like it - 2nd time I've done it, so wasn't sure when exactly the 1st one would finish
<MartijnVdS> Vodafone(NL)
<MartijnVdS> and I can see when every bit of my plan ends in their "My Vodafone" pages
<penguin42> yeh the T-mobile one is crap
<penguin42> but for Â£20 for 6 months of OKish data on my phone it's cheap
<MartijnVdS> agreed
 * MartijnVdS has to not-yet-activated pay-as-you-go SIMs, though I doubt there's much 3G near Land's End
<MartijnVdS> to? two!
<Laney> twit twoo
<MartijnVdS> only 12 weeks before I go :)
<penguin42> just to lang's end?
<penguin42> d
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: no, that's just the middle bit
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I'll be driving around for a week :)
<MartijnVdS> First day will be from the ferry (Harwich) to somewhere around Exmoor
<penguin42> ooh the Moors.....
<penguin42> best to make sure you're up on all appropriate moor horror films; start with Hound of the Baskervilles and American Werefolf in London
<penguin42> w
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: If you see a pub called the Slaughtered Lamb RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<AlanBell> davmor2: the Slaughtered Lamb (may contain 40% horse)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: +up to
<mungbean_> "you made me miss"
<davmor2> MartijnVdS, penguin42: you want basil rathbones and jeremy brett hound of the baskervilles
<penguin42> davmor2: Hell yes; personally I prefer Jeremy Brett of the two
 * penguin42 has the full set of Jeremy Brett's Holmes DVDs
<davmor2> penguin42: Jeremy Brett is by far the best Holmes in older years, but I'm liking RDjnr for the young holmes
 * penguin42 hasn't watched that
<penguin42> davmor2: I must admit to liking the 1st few Cumberbach Holmes episodes; he got the character right
<diplo_> Anyone know a way of checking out with python with something like chkconfig
<diplo_> Basically writing a script that checks all our stuff is setup correctly if not either fixing it in the script or pointing to a how to if not
<mgdm> Puppet? Chef? One of those
<diplo_> So basically I want to check chkconfig to make sure the programs are listed there that i need
<diplo_> Hmm, checking lot's of other stuff, but that could be an idea, rather than re-writing everything
<diplo_> Not used either yet, so guess it would be a good experiment :)
<mgdm> it's probably overkill for just checking services are running, but it's good for other things too
<diplo_> Lot's of other checks tbh, I've just wrote a nice little script that checks yum repos etc
<diplo_> Puppet would probably be better, but maybe a learning curve
<mgdm> it's a learning curve I've gone through recently
<mgdm> moving all my dev stuff to Vagrant VMs built by Puppet
<MartijnVdS> Vagrant VMs?
<MartijnVdS> A person without a settled home or regular work who wanders from place to place and lives by begging.
<MartijnVdS> ??
<penguin42>   'Anyone got a spare CPU cycle and a stale few GB of ram?'
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: you've not heard of Vagrant before? http://www.vagrantup.com/
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: "only a few kbit/second will do sir!"
<Laney> 5pm and still light :D
 * Laney hasn't even had to turn his lamp on yet
<diplo_> Will look at those tomorrow, thanks mgdm
<diplo_> Looks worthwhile trying though
<Laney> also
<Laney> TEA RULES OK
<MartijnVdS> Laney: real proper tea?
<Laney> ceylon ceylon ceylon celyon
<MartijnVdS> cylon tea?
<ali1234> ok this is bad
<MartijnVdS> ?
<ali1234> ubuntu mobile qt5 messes with the $PATH and so qt5 qmake comes before the distro qt4 qmake
<ali1234> this breaks compiling just about any qt app in ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> But it's a FEATURE
<ali1234> or maybe i did that
<luisms> Does anybody know if Ubuntu runs slower if  it's on the "try Ubuntu" mode booted from a USB pendrive?
<luisms> I refer to the 12.04 LTS version of it.
<MartijnVdS> Well, USB drives are slower than hard disks
<MartijnVdS> so that might slow it down
<Azelphur> It'll be slower opening programs in general, but once things are up and running it should be about the same.
<luisms> They fade black very often (the programs)
<luisms> I believe it's Compiz way of telling that the program is not responding, right?
<Azelphur> correct
<Azelphur> luisms: are they trying to read/write from the disk?
<luisms> I only open Firefox and Software Center
<luisms> and they take a long time to load and stop responding frequently
<luisms> I'm not sure what that means
<penguin42> luisms: Firefox has a nasty habit of doing slow writes
<penguin42> luisms: It especially affects slow USB sticks
<luisms> Will that vanish once I install it on my HDD and install drivers, etc.?
<penguin42> yes
<penguin42> (We really should turn off the fsync's in the 'try')
<luisms> Sorry, fsync?
<penguin42> luisms: Ignore me - it's just what's making firefox slow
<luisms> Oh, ok...
<luisms> I think I'm going to install it on the HDD, if all that issues are likely to disappear
<penguin42> yeh shoul do
<luisms> Unity's effects and all that fancy graphics work ok... I believe is just the slow data transfer from the USB port, right?
<penguin42> luisms: Probably - what's the spec of the machine; RAM, CPU, case colour...
<luisms> It has 3592MB od RAM
<penguin42> yeh that's fine
<luisms> The CPU is a  4x AMD A8-3870 APU with Radeon Hd GRaphics
<luisms> And I'm currently running Linux Mint 14 Nadia on it
<penguin42> oh yeh that should be fine
<luisms> Ok, thanks, I'll install it then.
<luisms> And thanks again. (:
<davmor2> popey: you got these yet https://twitter.com/GadgetPolly/status/302108199031554048/photo/1
<popey> davmor2: no, bet son would love one
<directhex> WHOA NELLY
<directhex> front page steam sale right now is 50-75% off all linux games
<MartijnVdS> *fires up steam*
<MartijnVdS> or would that be "fires up boilers"
<Klettbar> woul dyou buy a rugged lapto
<Klettbar> which one
<Klettbar> i mena from a point of view install linux on it etc
<Klettbar> would you buy a rugged laptop
<popey> Klettbar: the only rugged laptop I know of is the panasonic toughbooks
<directhex> generally speaking i wouldn't buy a rugged laptop as i don't like the form factor
<directhex> i know dell do a ruggedized model, but the toughbook is the standard bearer
<popey> directhex: OMG! buying lots of games!
<directhex> popey, i just bought 8!
<MartijnVdS> The only time I've seen a "rugged" laptop, was the guy who came to fix the microwave (he did inventory stuff on it)
<MartijnVdS> and it had a cute little printer in the same flight case as well :)
<popey> i have 7 in my basket!
 * MartijnVdS bought uplink+darwinia
<MartijnVdS> for.. â¬2,49
<popey> nice to see companies like chillingo porting their stuff over
<popey> directhex: bought 9 âº
<popey> My Thursday night is now set. Chinese food. Wine. Games. Win!
<directhex> THE SALE IS A LIE!
<directhex> "save 50-75%" they say
<directhex> serious sam 3, 80% off!
<popey> Bastards!
<davmor2> popey: Language
<MartijnVdS> Illegitimate children!
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: better?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: much
<Azelphur> bitcoin tried to give me a heat attack yesterday http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxGBP#rg2ztgTzm1g10zm2g25 xD
<davmor2> one must not forget ones diction on this channel
<davmor2> Azelphur: a heat attack it tried burning you?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: massive coin dumpage?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: dunno, something caused it haha, just after I stocked up too
<Azelphur> davmor2: lol, heart attack* :P
<penguin42> Azelphur: That'll have been the vast number of people converting them to pizzas
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: not roses? or chocolate?
<Azelphur> penguin42: indeed, that's one theory
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: No, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21427505
<davmor2> Azelphur: starts to gain weight as his millions of bitcoins are spent on pizza
<Azelphur> funny enough, I have a pizza on the way ;)
<davmor2> Azelphur: the first lorry load is that :D
<Azelphur> yea :P
<directhex> there's a bitcoin store selling... ahem... adult novelties
<Azelphur> there's a bitcoin store for everything now days ;)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: hitmen?
<Azelphur> in all honesty, yes.
 * penguin42 gulps
<penguin42> Azelphur: Oh that's where those bungling ones that got the wrong guy were booked....
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: just don't forget to buy him milk.
<Azelphur> penguin42: probably ;)
<John______> Hi, I just noticed that 12.04.2 is available now to upgrade. Is there anyway I can upgrade from 12.04 using the terminal or the software updater, dont want to upgrade to 12.10 though
<John______> I dont have enough confidence to upgrade using by using the dvd
<MartijnVdS> if you have 12.04 and install all the updates, you should get 12.04.2 automatically
<MartijnVdS> The upgrade to 12.10 should not be showing up in your update manager screen, unless you explicitly enabled it
<John______> how do I find out if I have updated
<penguin42> Although the new hardware enablement gets a bit different; a fresh 12.04.2 install gets different kernel/x than an install from 12.04.1 and upgrade
<popey> as MartijnVdS says, if you installed 12.04 and updated it, congratulations, you're on 12.04.2
<John______> ok thanks
<penguin42> it'll be interesting to see how the hardware enablement stuff works out
<Azelphur> popey: don't suppose you happen to have any Valve employees you can poke regarding steam for Linux bugs?
<Azelphur> I have a pretty bad one here
<popey> have you filed the bug on github?
<Azelphur> someone else already did, 2 months old doesn't seem to getting much luck
<Azelphur> it basically surmounts to "voice chat doesn't work on a large percentage of TF2 servers"
<Azelphur> (any of them that opt out of steam voice = no mic input for Linux users at all)
<Azelphur> which is quite a lot of servers, because steam voice breaks a lot of things xD
<Azelphur> https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/261
<Azelphur> thought perhaps you might be able to prod someone on it, being unable to use mic on TF2 for Linux seems like a bad bug :(
<popey> not really, they internally manage that list
<Azelphur> aww :p
<penguin42> Does 12.04.2 have the llvm gl set, or only the rest of the quantal X stack?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-15
<xnox> penguin42: 12.04.2 still ships unity-2d (for non-accel) and unity-3d
<xnox> penguin42: unless you are not asking about llvm-pipe, then ignore me.
<penguin42> xnox: Well what I was curious about was whether it included llvm-pipe and if it did whether unity-3d would try and work
<xnox> penguin42: no. unity was not part of the backport.
<penguin42> xnox: Well it wasn't unity I asked about; it was llvm-pipe - and I'm not sure where that sits, but it ain't unity
<xnox> penguin42: llvmpipe backend for unity is not part of the backport and that does need new unity.
<penguin42> ok
<dwatkins> morning all
 * dwatkins saw the sun rise on the way to work today, which made it feel less like it's winter
<knightwise> whaw
<knightwise> looks like the real deal with that meterorite in russia
<kvarley> I've already installed steam manually via a deb, will it mess anything up if I just install it from the software centre too?
<popey> nah
<popey> YMMV âº
<popey> I wouldn't bother
<popey> Steam self-updates
<kvarley> popey: I was more thinking for Canonical's stats :) but I guess Valve has stats on linux users anyway
<popey> heh
<popey> i dont think it will make much difference
<kvarley> This year has got off to an amazing start
<popey> yes, yes it has
<popey> we've gone from 25 games in steam back in november to 100
<kvarley> The publicity surrounding Valve's Piston project is great for Linux too
<kvarley> I'm still amazed by the selection of games available in such a short amount of time
<knightwise> Counter strike source ! :)
<knightwise> Heeehee !
<kvarley> knightwise: Yeah, that is an awesome game. If/When CS:GO comes I'll finally be able to convince a few more of my friends to switch
<knightwise> got a laptop from work this week
<knightwise> 15 inch clunker with an ATI card
<knightwise> dualbooted it into linux :)
<knightwise> will be using it as my game machine for the occasional alien arena and steam :)
<jacobw> morning
<jacobw> knightwise: steam \o/
<andylockran> morning all
<knightwise> Steam in russia is featuring a new game  http://www.classicgamesarcade.com/game/21650/missile-strike.html
<kvarley> lol
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :-D
<Laney> it IS happy
 * Laney plays a guitar riff in celebration
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<JamesTait> Woke up this morning (duh-duh-duh-duh-duh), thought it was Saturday.
<czajkowski> aloha
<JamesTait> brobostigon, czajkowski: o/
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<knightwise> Its not only the end of the week .. in russia its like the end of the world !
<andylockran> is there a tool for adding custom resolutions to monitors?
 * dwatkins is reminded of the days of manually editing the XFree86 config file
<zleap> hi ,   how do i switch to vga output,  tried google and nothing seems helpful
<zleap> using del 1ov,  vga connected up
<AlanBell> morning all
<andylockran> I've just had to use xrandr to set resolution on an external monitor :s
<andylockran> morning AlanBell
<AlanBell> I have an idea for an email service thing, not sure if it exists
<popey> zleap: what are you running on it?
<popey> andylockran: yeah, I've used xrandr for adding resolutions before, never found a tool for it
<AlanBell> what I want is a website where I can get an inbound email address that I can send assorted automated emails
<zleap> lubuntu 12.04
<popey> no idea, ask in #lubuntu ?
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> I tell it what emails to expect, and what words to look out for in them, like "at 2 AM every day you should expect an email from this address with the subject containing 'Success'"
<popey> nice idea AlanBell
<popey> it could report for you when it doesn't get them too
<zleap> what would i use in standard ubuntu?
<AlanBell> and then if it doesn't get them it sends me a mail
<popey> zleap: there is a displays option in system settings
<AlanBell> then I don't have to care about backup emails not happening, or failing or cronjobs or whatever
<AlanBell> I only need to care if they don't turn up or fail
<AlanBell> does such a thing exist? Could I make squillions by building it?
<popey> it could be a valuable service, yes
<popey> subscription based, people would subscribe and then forget it
<popey> but continue paying
<andylockran> #storyofmybankaccount
<AlanBell> yeah, I would pay for it I think
<AlanBell> and I would want it as SaaS rather than in house probably
<AlanBell> so it isn't dependent on the infrastructure it is monitoring
<popey> yes
<diplo_> Morning all
<diplo> AlanBell: Isn't that the sort of thing that Monitoring services like Nagios do though, check backups or you could use to check an email was sent etc
<AlanBell> diplo: dunno, I want to check that an email *wasn't* sent
<AlanBell> or the expected email was received but the last word in the body isn't "Done"
<DJones> Has anybody here installed LibreOffice 4 on 12.04 yet, if so, did you use a ppas or manually install it
<diplo> Could check the logs to see if an email was sent to a particular host at a certain timee
<AlanBell> diplo: I don't want to, I want to do less work not more!
<AlanBell> so I have from various systems emails that I expect to get every day, I can send them to different mailboxes and check 30 or so emails a day to see if any failed, or if any didn't arrive
<AlanBell> but I am horrifically lazy, and don't want to do that
<AlanBell> I want a computer to tell me if I didn't get one of 30 emails
<AlanBell> and not to bother me about the 29 successfull things I don't have to care about
<daubers> AlanBell: Sounds like you need nagios or something really. Quick flick in the morning to see if you have any red lights then ignore
<AlanBell> daubers: can that get emails from systems it can't see other ways?
<jpds> "If you're not monitoring it, you're not managing it".
<daubers> AlanBell: I think it's all scrpt based, so probably
<popey> for czajkowski http://imgur.com/gallery/Fz7h1Ni
<popey> AlanBell: you can write scripts to do pretty much anything
<popey> i wrote a nagios script to poll SAP systems and give me lights if stuff was on/off
<AlanBell> I guess one could write a nagios script to log in to an imap account and search for emails
<czajkowski> popey: awwww
<diplo> AlanBell: More than likely there is a script already there, if not there ( from my experience ) will be something very similar that you can slightly change to your needs
<diplo> I don't think I've not found something that can do something I want and needing to start from scratch
<diplo> Even a script to check Fibre cards and whether they have an errors / problems
<davmor2> Morning all
<AlanBell> diplo: yeah, I think it is something I could set up, and I do have nagios running, however I suspect it could be a useful service to simplify
<AlanBell> normal people get regular emails too, from various things
<AlanBell> people who are not going to run nagios
<davmor2> bigcalm: we'll wont a full report on your unity experience
<popey> +1
<andylockran> normal people DO run nagios
<andylockran> it's innormal people that don't
<BigRedS> I thought normal people ran icinga these days?
<mungbean_> is tomboy/u1 still deleting all notes?
<mungbean_> aararghghgh uploaded 210 notes to server
<mungbean_> sounds like notes were not on server then
<davmor2> andylockran: is innormal even a word?
<popey> mungbean_: https://one.ubuntu.com/help/contact/ ?
<mungbean_> popey: i just held off from syncing for a week after initial epic fail of note deletion
<mungbean_> wondered if there was a consensus on what had happened and it was fixed
<mungbean_> my understanding was every user suffered
<Laney> #ubuntuone is likely better
<popey> i had it happen once, restored my notes from backup, synced again
<popey> then decided to drop tomboy completely
<popey> so exported my notes as plain text, deleted them and removed tomboy
<bitnumus> Hi, im trying to install ubuntu-server, the installation failed at loading the CD-ROM stage, any way to find out why?
<popey> bitnumus: probably best asking in #ubuntu-server
<bitnumus> ok.
<davmor2> popey: have a look at nitro it's a task manager really but makes just as good a note keeper :)
<rindolf> Hi all.
<davmor2> rindolf: hello
<rindolf> davmor2: what's up?
<davmor2> rindolf: the Ceiling, the tree tops, the Sky :)
<rindolf> davmor2: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=shlomif-fact-chuck-35
<AlanBell> andylockran: normal sysadmins run nagios
<rindolf> davmor2: I am a stand-in Chuck Norris on IRC, so beware my IRC wrath.
 * rindolf unleashes his inner Chuck Norris.
 * AlanBell sets up http://exceptionalemails.com/ and ponders how to build it
<rindolf> AlanBell: ah, Nagios. Had a gig regarding it recently, but it was unsuccesful
<rindolf> Our client was in denial of Brooks' Law and common sense.
<rindolf> Brooks's maybe.
<AlanBell> a common problem
<AlanBell> however I am fairly sure that I don't want nagios for this
<davmor2> rindolf: I don't know which was funnier the quote or you thinking you are to irc what chuck norris is to the world.  We know who the real IRC ninjas are :D
<rindolf> davmor2: I was kidding.
<rindolf> davmor2: I am just being silly.
<rindolf> davmor2: anyway what's new with you?
<davmor2> rindolf: hence the :D at the end :)
<rindolf> davmor2: and/or what are you doing now?
<rindolf> davmor2: actually I am an IRC master ninja.
<rindolf> A ninja god.
<dwatkins> a ginger nod.
<davmor2> rindolf: Work, and boring admin stuff currently :)
<rindolf> davmor2: ah, OK.
<neuro> AlanBell: sorry, just read back
<neuro> basing a monitoring solution around emails, and specifically email delivery, is a dangerous thing
<neuro> too many PoFs
<AlanBell> sure
<AlanBell> but this isn't a sophisticated monitoring system
<neuro> well, no
<neuro> you're just building mail filters
<AlanBell> no
<neuro> you are
<AlanBell> the opposite of mail filters
<neuro> if this, and that, then discard
<neuro> if not this and that by then, then alert
<AlanBell> how do you do a mail filter on a mail that doesn't arrive?
<neuro> i know, i know
<BigRedS> you check the mailbox for it at a time by which it should have arrived
<neuro> it's still a filter, it's just an anti-mail filter
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yeah, what does that though?
<BigRedS> no, you need a non-filter component for when nothing arrives to be filtered
<BigRedS> Perl
<neuro> lol
<neuro> it's true
<neuro> unless you are using a myriad of incompatible monitoring and alerting systems though, i'm not sure what you are trying to achieve
<neuro> it would be easier to simply tie all your monitors into one system, and alert on fail
<BigRedS> no, this does sound like a lot of effort to not monitor something 'properly'
<rindolf> AlanBell: maybe try Jabber/XMPP too.
<rindolf> This is more reliable than E-mail.
<BigRedS> most things are more reliable than email
<neuro> rindolf: but at the end of the day, you're still (according to this requirement) checking for mail
<neuro> or checking for the non-delivery of mail
<rindolf> neuro: yes.
<rindolf> I'm not going to completely do away with my use of E-mail.
<AlanBell> you only get alerted if you need to care
<neuro> AlanBell: hence why i think you need to be thinking further up the chain
<BigRedS> yeah, so I'd say you want something that checks whether you need to care and alerts you if you don't
<neuro> what if your mailbox runs out of disk or quota?
<neuro> then all your alert criterion will fail
<BigRedS> not something that checks whether something didn't send you an email to say that you don't need to care and alert you if it did
<neuro> what if an upstream smtpd fails
<AlanBell> neuro: then you get an email about it
<neuro> well no, you wouldn't
<AlanBell> or an SMS or something
<neuro> that's my point
<neuro> sorry
<neuro> fail
<neuro> you'd get MANY mails
<neuro> was my point
<AlanBell> fine, get many emails, it still only happens when I need to do something about it
<BigRedS> neuro: I think we're two people who don't need the service trying think about how we'd want it implemented :)
<neuro> and if you don't properly figure out that it's the anti-mail filter that's failed rather than the upstream thing you want to keep an eye on, you waste time running about like a headless chicken trying to work out what's happened
<AlanBell> so this service sits out in "the cloud" and gives you an email address to send all that stuff to, sync jobs, backups, other junk that happens daily or weekly
<AlanBell> including stuff for non-sysadmins
<neuro> BigRedS: true, but i'm trying to work out the rationale for pushing the alerting criterion further downstream, and into a region that can be prone to false positives
<AlanBell> like "daily invoice run completed", "month end process successful" or whatever
<AlanBell> you direct them all at this service, and tell it what you expect, and it emails you only if something goes wrong including mails failing to arrive by the correct time
<neuro> if you're doing batch jobs, you should have watchdogs that can measure that success/failure metric and report accordingly
<neuro> the failure to report should not be the only metric for alerting
<AlanBell> sure you should, but lots of people don't
<BigRedS> neuro: exactly. should versus would, though.
<neuro> then what you're proposing - and please don't think i'm trying to put you off, rather figure out your rationale - is creating a more brittle alerting system which can be used to make people lazier in their systems implementation
<BigRedS> "you should do this properly, but you could do it this way"
<neuro> exactly :)
<AlanBell> yes
<neuro> ok then :)
<BigRedS> because 'this way' is still better than not at all
<neuro> well
<neuro> hehe
 * neuro bites tongue :)
<BigRedS> I have two mails I get every morning from a cronjob. I probably wouldn't particularly notice if I didn't get them one day.
<AlanBell> exactly
<BigRedS> I don't know why there's two of them. That's why I've not made it stop mailing me. I clearly don't care about the process enough to put a better monitor in
<BigRedS> It's been about eight months since I first thought I should sort out the duplication, but thought that the best way to not forget was to simply leave it sending me mail
<AlanBell> it is trivial to get a cron job or backup system, or virus file update system to send an email when it is done, most things do that
<BigRedS> it's _much_ harder to get it to only mail you every time there's a problem
<neuro> and *only* when there's a problem
<BigRedS> its best to have something else that does all your tests and tells you if any of them fail. but nobody, really, does that.
<AlanBell> yes, because many failure modes will stop the email happening
<neuro> AlanBell: and what will you do with the success emails which don't trigger an alert?
<AlanBell> just keep them or purge them after a retention period
<BigRedS> 'file' them
<neuro> ew
<AlanBell> why ew?
<neuro> privacy concerns for one
<BigRedS> At least draw a pretty graph with them
<neuro> would be better to bin the mail if it matches a metric for success
<BigRedS> neuro: privacy concerns? it's an email you've punted at The Cloud, you clearly don't care who sees what's in it
<neuro> treat it as a Cc bin
<AlanBell> I was thinking that the user could set their own retention period
<AlanBell> so if you want a retention period of 1 day then fine
<neuro> why would you need to retain them at all?
<BigRedS> maybe you want to check periodically that all the mail being marked as 'succes' really does mean success?
<AlanBell> to check
<neuro> so then you're an alerting *and* message storage service
<AlanBell> but you could set it to discard as soon as it arrives and sets the flag on the trigger
<neuro> could
<AlanBell> possibly have a free as in beer service with a short retention period and not many monitors and a paid subscription for any retention period and storage
<neuro> see, when you retain things like email, you then need to think about legal ramifications
<AlanBell> yeah, I was thinking also to get it to set up filters by example
<neuro> at least if you're binning every success mail after the trigger has been fired, you're not storing anything
<BigRedS> neuro: surely if you're retaining email sent directly to you you've fewer problems? you're not a relay, you're a recipient
<AlanBell> no more than for any other email service, and that is fine, I can think about legal ramifications
<neuro> then when someone comes along with a court order, you can say "ah, but we don't do retention"
<AlanBell> I have done email before you know :)
<neuro> i'm not saying you haven't :)
<neuro> i'm just playing devil's advocate here
<neuro> i can see uses for such a service
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> one thing that crosses my mind is you could direct a regular email at it, then log on to the website and say "I want an email like that one every day" rather than typing in your criteria
<neuro> that would certainly get around criteria creation hassles
<neuro> just cherry pick the bits you want
<neuro> "this bit of the subject", "this bit of the body", "this sending IP"
<AlanBell> yeah, so it would suggest a rough time window, from address, subject etc
<neuro> you could just have a common tag at the end of the input address
<neuro> electricboogaloo+config@foo
<neuro> and it would disregard any filters/criteria for that message, and hold it in a config bin waiting to be dealt with
<AlanBell> interesting point, yeah
<neuro> or perhaps more real world jacn8afn2ynks+config@foo :)
<AlanBell> so myaccount+server1backup@exceptionalemails.com
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> another suggestion: allow each filter to have a timezone set
<AlanBell> ok, good point
<neuro> you don't want a misfire in case an email by 2am arrives at 2am but is tagged 1am (or arrives at 3am) on a DST cutover
<neuro> just allow UTC, PST/PDT, etc and make sure you match that timezone when doing the time criterion calcs
<AlanBell> hmm, DST is *hard* to get perfect, it happens at different times in different places
<AlanBell> but yeah, that can be done
<neuro> yeah, but timezones are known entities :)
<AlanBell> and it is easier to design it in now than fix it later :)
<neuro> exactly
<neuro> i'm pretty sure someone somewhere has written a library to deal with it ;)
<BigRedS> force everyone into UK time
<neuro> no
<AlanBell> tempting
<neuro> UTC or death
<BigRedS> or, as we call it internally at work, One True Time
<BigRedS> makes it way easier to schedule things
<popey> you could surely do this with one giant procmail? âº
<BigRedS> no, nobody thinks in UTC. At least Britain thinks in UK time :)
<neuro> well it's the logic of whatever procmail fires the email at that matters
<AlanBell> popey: how does procmail send an email when it *doesn't* get one?
<neuro> BigRedS: but UTC is a worldwide thing, unless you enjoy building parochial products that have a limited scope of use
<neuro> zing
<neuro> burn
<neuro> Schrodinger's Mail Filter
<neuro> the mail is both sent and unsent simultaneously
<neuro> until the mailbox is opened
<neuro> i'd say that's a better brand than exceptional emails :)
<neuro> DIBS!!!!!
<AlanBell> the wave function collapses
<neuro> maybe i should build schrodinger's mail filter, you can build exceptional emails, and we'll see who gets there first :)
<neuro> CAPITALISM!!!!!!
<BigRedS> neuro: the fewer people who use my code the less time I need to spend fixing it :)
<neuro> hehe
<BigRedS> In some seriousness, I'd always use UTC for code. I just hate having to then make it human-friendly, precisely because nobody wants to work in UTC and it's really hard to guess and then work out what they do want to work in
<neuro> the thing about UTC, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight about chaos ... it's fair
<neuro> no worrying about when DST changes occur
<BigRedS> it's like EU standardisation. It's mutually inconvenient for everybody
<neuro> or if they change from year to year
<neuro> also, you know, if it's good enough for the military ...
<neuro> and NASA ...
<neuro> all you need to track are leap seconds
<BigRedS> seconds? Nah, I have the same resolution as cron.
<neuro> cron's time resolution is only as good as your upstream ntp server
<neuro> and your RTC
<AlanBell> I wouldn't think that this needs to be accurate at all
<neuro> you think?
<AlanBell> you set the timeout for maybe an hour after the email normally turns up
<neuro> as soon as you introduce time criterion, you need it to be accurate to the second
<neuro> what if your failure timeout criterion needs to be more accurate than an hour?
<neuro> well then i guess you need your own monitoring solution :)
<AlanBell> just in case the job takes a bit longer, or the mail doesn't arrive so fast
<neuro> ah, so now you're introducing fuzziness
<AlanBell> yeah, if you need to care that urgently you wouldn't use this
<neuro> which i guess could be a configurable option of each filter
<neuro> or of each paid-for filter, if you want to be a freemium git about it
<AlanBell> something like a "backup completed" email would not come at a predictable time every day
<neuro> i have had backups that take a day :)
<neuro> stupid rsnapshot
<AlanBell> say the backup kicks off at 02:00 and normally finishes by 02:45 you might trigger the email to let you know if it isn't done by 04:00 because you still get the mail by breakfast time and you really don't care if it finished a bit late
<neuro> see the complexity you're having to generate that could be dealt with by a well kept nagios install? :)
<AlanBell> and yeah, I think a freemium model is probably what I will do unless a better idea presents itself
<AlanBell> that isn't complexity!
<neuro> you're uncovering additional criterion to meet a flexibility requirement due to operational fluctuations of the tasks being monitored (or the success/failure modes of the tasks)
<neuro> you'll realise you need more as more situations get presented to you
<AlanBell> that isn't an uncovered criterion, it is the first thing on my notepad of scribbles!
<neuro> you know what i mean :)
<AlanBell> and with the "by example" stuff I was going to suggest to the user adding an hour of leeway to the received time
<neuro> i'm using flowery language to say that your notepad of scribbles will get filled with more stuff as more people think of stuff to check for
<BigRedS> neuro: cron's time resolution is to the minute
<neuro> but if your clock is off, then the execution time is not to the minute
<neuro> it could be to ten past the minute
<neuro> or the minute + 6
<BigRedS> no, but that's not resolution, that's accuracy
<BigRedS> or correctness
<neuro> HANDBAGS AT DAWN
<BigRedS> dawn in which timezone according to which ntp server?
<BigRedS> in fact, which dawn?
<AlanBell> the whole point of this is to grab emails that turn up at the *end* of jobs, which will have a variable length of time
<neuro> red dawn
<neuro> yeah but if you're wanting to know if a mail was or was not received by X
<neuro> and the execution time is X-Y
<neuro> but the time on the execution host is off by Z
<neuro> and if the third train leaves King's Cross station at quarter past three, travelling at 40mph ...
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> you just set X to be the time at which you would be worried if the mail hasn't arrived
<AlanBell> not the time you are expecting it
<neuro> i'm just saying, having time checking is useful
<neuro> you could check the header Received: trail
<AlanBell> timezones and DST is something to get right, but leap seconds are not worth worrying about
<neuro> i'm not talking about leap seconds with regard to this discussion
<BigRedS> yeah, I'd have though o'clock was resolution enough
<neuro> oof
<BigRedS> "if I've not received notification that this backup finished by midday let me know" etc.
<neuro> sometimes, waiting 59 minutes to know if something bad has happened can be too long
<AlanBell> BigRedS: exactly
<BigRedS> neuro: then you need to monitor it properly
<neuro> \o/
<BigRedS> sometimes it takes 59 minutes for the mail to get to my mailbox
<BigRedS> or to me. I might be having lunch
<neuro> this is why man invented devices with wireless radios
<neuro> also for easier access to pictures of cats
<neuro> well, less so pagers and devices with SMS, but definitely smartphones
<BigRedS> yes, but instead of ubiquitous 3G we're now aiming for patchy 3g and even more patchy 4g
<neuro> there's no such thing as ubiquitous 3G
<neuro> and there's no such thing as 4G in this country
<BigRedS> I can't wait until there's two different generations of wireless data that I can't receive
 * AlanBell wonders what technology to use to build this
<popey> Go!
<BigRedS> Fortan
<popey> Brainfsck!
<neuro> BigRedS: there aren't two different generations of wireless data, unless you mean 2G and 3.xG
<neuro> popey: haha
<BigRedS> neuro: I don't know what I mean, but I keep getting told that there's a new one soon while I can't get the old one
<neuro> 3G = UMTS
<neuro> 3.5G = HSPA
<neuro> 3.9G = LTE
<BigRedS> generations have point releases?
<neuro> well, actually they have ITU standards definitions
<BigRedS> Oh
<BigRedS> so this new thing EE are going on about is three-and-a-half-gee?
<neuro> "3G" is a bunch of ITU IMT-2000 standards
<neuro> 3.9G
<neuro> LTE
<neuro> what AT&T call "4G" in the states is just 3.5G HSPA+
<neuro> it's all branding
<BigRedS> I need to stop trying to be interested, and get back to just complaining that none of it works :)
<neuro> when it all works, it all works very well
<neuro> what you need to keep an eye out for is LTE Advanced
<neuro> which *is* 4G
<BigRedS> but is that going to have better coverage than whatever I mean when I say 3G?
<neuro> well
<BigRedS> because I don't want faster internet on my phone, I want *useful* internet on my phone
<BigRedS> I've still not been able to properly recreate that scene from Mission Impossible, and it's not because I can't find a helicopter to tie to the train
<neuro> then you should try to stick to 900MHz HSPA for now (or in layman's terms, Voda or O2)
 * AlanBell wonders whether to use exim or write the whole thing from scratch (ish)
<neuro> postfix+procmail+python
<BigRedS> whole thing from scratch
<AlanBell> http://docs.python.org/2/library/smtpd.html#smtpd.SMTPServer and implement process_message
<BigRedS> Oh, not the smtpd bit.
<BigRedS> but get whatever smtpd you want to use, make it not accept spam and forward everything else to a heap of whatever you like writing text processing code in
<AlanBell> inbound only
<BigRedS> awk?
<neuro> ooh, LTE Advanced does MIMO as part of the spec, didn't know that
<BigRedS> If you try to pass too much of the logic over to the smtpd you're likely to end up wanting to do something that it can't do
<neuro> woah yeah don't write your own smtpd
<AlanBell> yeah, which is why I am thinking of getting the messages directly
<neuro> getting them from where?
<BigRedS> listening on port 25?
<BigRedS> that's a solved problem and a reasonably hard one. Use someone else's solution.
<neuro> ^ this
<AlanBell> well, using lib/smtpd.py
<neuro> why make life hard for yourself?
<neuro> you're going to need an smtpd to throw out alerts anyway
<AlanBell> well I have to get at the messages somehow
<neuro> postfix and exim are mature and well-known entities
<BigRedS> and, if it all goes well, you're going to want to scale. You're almost certainly going to want to do anti-spam stuff
<neuro> procmail the inbounds and process them with $TOOL
<neuro> jeez, even just dump them in a maildir and work with them in there
<BigRedS> I'd just get $smtpd to pipe it into $tool
<BigRedS> or, yeah, write an imap robot
<BigRedS> actually, I'd *exactly* write an imap robot
<neuro> yeah
<AlanBell> one possible way is to set up exim with mysql back end for user management and dovecot for imap then python talks to imap
<neuro> postfix+dovecot, then talk to the imapd or the maildirs direct
<AlanBell> then in theory it could talk to another imap, including one off site
<neuro> or clustered
<AlanBell> but then I have to poke user information into dovecot/exim
<neuro> you probably want to think about clustering up front, even if you only onebox the thing to start with
<BigRedS> AlanBell: if it's SQL backed it's very easy code
<AlanBell> so they need to be set up with database back ends rather than system users, which means not using the debian packages
<neuro> errrrrr
<neuro> wut?
<BigRedS> huh?
<BigRedS> we use postfix/dovecot/mysql on Debian with Debian packages
<AlanBell> oh, I thought they were built without it
<BigRedS> at-get install postfix-mysql dovecot-mysql
<BigRedS> I think
<BigRedS> something like that
<neuro> yarp
<BigRedS> I scripted the whole thing: https://github.com/BigRedS/postfixadmin-installer all that's not packaged is a perl lib (that is in non-free) and the vacation plugin
<neuro> neuro@saratoga:~$ apt-cache search postfix-mysql
<neuro> postfix-mysql - MySQL map support for Postfix
<neuro> neuro@saratoga:~$ apt-cache search dovecot-mysql
<neuro> dovecot-mysql - MySQL support for Dovecot
<neuro> Well. Known. Entities.
<neuro> don't reinvent the wheel
<BigRedS> we've a few hundred of those
<BigRedS> hm. many tens. lots of things are still qmail...
<neuro> BigRedS: that's a cute script
<BigRedS> it's horrific
<BigRedS> did you read the code?
<neuro> :)
<neuro> yeah
<AlanBell> why won't it work on oniric?
<neuro> i mean yeah, it's evil :)
<AlanBell> oh, it works on precise, that is OK
<BigRedS> dovecot changes its config file layout
<BigRedS> there's a 'wheezy' branch that probably does
<neuro> DOVECOT! *shakes fist*
<neuro> actually ...
<neuro> UPSTREAM!!!! *shakes fist*
<BigRedS> But, yeah, that script evolved from a bash script that had a bunch of Perl one liners into a Perl script
<neuro> :)
<BigRedS> the SVN history before I put it into a github repo is, er, harrowing
<BigRedS> but it works, so I don't want to rework it :)
<neuro> i still haven't evolved from bash, i'm ashamed to say
<BigRedS> I generally stop using bash as soon as I need an if statement
<BigRedS> I can never get those right
<neuro> echo " * executing post-update processese"
<neuro> if [ "$1" == "" ]
<neuro> then
<neuro>         SERVICE="ssl deny dns dhcp ntp squid noc"
<neuro> else
<neuro>         SERVICE="$*"
<BigRedS> the spaces and square brackets and when I need quote marks and argh
<neuro> fi
<neuro> :)
<neuro> part of my stupid config mgmt thingy
<neuro> this one is my favourite (part of *cough* something else)
<neuro> while test $# -gt 0; do
<neuro>         case "$1" in
<neuro>                 -*=*)
<neuro>                         optarg=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[-_a-zA-Z0-9]*=//')
<neuro>                         optarg=
<neuro>                         ;;
<neuro>                 *)
<neuro>                         ;;
<neuro>         esac
<neuro>         case "$1" in
<neuro> ...
<neuro> case statements!!! crazy!
<neuro> (not sure if that made it through, stupid flood protection)
<BigRedS> at least some of it did. I dislike all of it because it's bash, though
<BigRedS> :)
<neuro> :)
<dwatkins> optarg=
<dwatkins> doesn't that make it null?
<AlanBell> so, with exim/mysql and dovecot mysql I create a user by writing a username/password to a database table or is there a library to wrap that?
<BigRedS> I've written a Perl library for the postfixadmin system that script installs
<BigRedS> it's also badly written, but it does work :)
 * neuro harrumphs
<neuro> design your system first, then engineer it
<neuro> :)
<BigRedS> It's really basic SQL, though. If you're just interested in adding simple transports you could write your code in a couple of hours
<neuro> dwatkins: it's matching for --fish=bar, setting $optarg to bar; if there is no = in the flag, then there's no option argument
<neuro> i don't actually use it later in the script, it's all a big incomplete mess
<neuro> ergo, bash :)
<BigRedS> but whatever the first line does, the second will null $optarg, wont it?
<BigRedS> so you may as well not have the "optarg=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[-_a-zA-Z0-9]*=//')" line
<dwatkins> neuro: ah ok, thanks
<jacobw> why wouldn't use you use getopts?
<jacobw> sorry, that's not a sentence
<jacobw> why wouldn't you use getopts?
<neuro> because i'm a sadist
<neuro> and i probably forgot about that when i wrote that
<neuro> i don't actually remember writing it
<neuro> i just know it's in some code i have for some stuff i use
<DJones> Interesting Valve news story, announce Linux video game store as it announces the lay off of some staff http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21471974
<dwatkins> perhaps they were people who were trying to get half-life 3 finished before the end of the decade ;)
<neuro> um wow
<neuro> valve prided themselves on having zero turnover
<mgdm> how is zero turnover possible?
<jacobw> everyone dies before they move on
<jacobw> i think that would satisfy some definition of zero turnover
<BigRedS> mgdm: enthusiastic rounding
 * AlanBell decides to use python smtpd library for version 1
<neuro> or maybe it was github that has had zero turnover
<neuro> this is an awesome read though: http://media.steampowered.com/apps/valve/Valve_NewEmployeeHandbook.pdf
<einonm> I can only imagine that the valve layoffs are to do with the changing skill set that the company needs...things like graphics drivers are probably very different between Linux and Windows
<einonm> but also, maybe I'm being cynical - trust the BBC to put a negative spin on something Linux related
<Guest11358> I have two books, one is called Practical UNIX & internet security (third edition ), and the other is the o'reilly Linux in a nutshell (4th edition), could anyone tell me if they're still of any relevance, or if such systems have moved on to make all the technologies in the book obsolete, as they're relatively old books
<rindolf> Guest11358: I think they should be fine.
<rindolf> Guest11358: if you're fond of learning such stuff from books.
<rindolf> Guest11358: have not really read them, but O'Reilly books tend to be very good.
<DJones> !manual | Guest11358 This could well be of use as well,
<lubotu3> Guest11358 This could well be of use as well,: The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<Guest11358> ah cool, find printed copies much easier to read generally, i have tons of ebooks but reading from a monitor after a while is awkward, plus I picked these books up from college for about 30p each haha, thanks for the reply
<BigRedS> the principles are likely to be about right for either, but the detail might be a bit off by now. Does the Linux in a nutshell book say which kernel version it expects?
<BigRedS> er, covers. It's a book, not software
<Guest11358> not sure, was printed in June 2003 if that says anything
<Guest11358> obviously not about the kernel, could have a good guess at the kernel from the time stamp though
<BigRedS> nah, that's going to be not so old that it's useless
<BigRedS> depends what you're interested in, really
<Guest11358> and ubuntu manual seems okay, a lot of the stuff im perfectly capable of doing, been using ubuntu for a few years, becoming my main OS now and im just trying to understand some of the deeper aspects, been playing with the terminal a lot more
<popey> Azelphur: https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/FDxuNJXSdfw
<popey> \o/ TF2
<Azelphur> I'm up for bat beatings.
<Azelphur> annnnd everybody left :p
<Azelphur> also, 300fps flat out with compiz enabled, w00t
<Azelphur> lemme know when your playing and I'll join ya
<Azelphur> for now, back to work https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2013/Jan/2013-02-13-215546_5120x1440_scrot.png xD
<Laney> bah
<Laney> the initial tf2 download is massive
<Azelphur> yep lol
<Laney> not getting stellar speeds either
<Azelphur> takes a lot of space for the worlds most advanced hat simulator
<popey> http://www.canonical.com/content/touch-developer-preview-ubuntu-be-published-21-february-2013
<popey> \o/
<Laney> good use for a broken nexus 4?
<Laney> :P
<popey> :D
 * AlanBell puts an include in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TouchInstallProces pointing to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TouchInstallProcess because of sloppy sloppy press release
<AlanBell> or maybe a redirect
<Laney> har har
<Paladine> popey, what bitrate do you recommend for a podcast?
<davmor2> ghoti == fish  you take the gh from tough, the o from women and the ti from station :)  the English Language rocks
<rindolf> davmor2: what?
<rindolf> davmor2: my last name is Fish.
<rindolf> But I'm not English - I'm an Israeli Jew.
<davmor2> rindolf: it's a play on the different ways you can say a combination of letter in English
<davmor2> rindolf: it's things like tough and plough, how is 1 ending uff and the other ow and why is stuff not spelt stough etc
<rindolf> davmor2: yes.
<rindolf> davmor2: and through.
 * AlanBell observed fixed press release
<redtape-renegade> Ominous package arrived today ... https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Merchandise%20Mania%20%28Kubuntu%20Pens%29%20takes%20Royal%20Mail%204%20days%20to%20arrive%20usually%20by%20.png
<penguin42> took me a few seconds to parse that as 4 days not 204
<directhex> mmm, monitors
<directhex> i wish i had a monitor
<penguin42> buy one?
<directhex> they cost money!
<directhex> real money!
<penguin42> this is true
<davmor2> directhex: poach Azelphur 's bitcoins and by one :)
<directhex> i said real money, not crazy cyberlibertarian pretend money!
 * directhex flees
<brobostigon> lol, on the one show, tuffers dressed up like arthur dent.
<davmor2> directhex: yeah but poaching fake money that can buy real stuff can't be a crime right it was only numbers on a machine :D
<redtape-renegade> !anyone want a pen ?
<lubotu3> redtape-renegade: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<jacobw> redtape-renegade: yes
<redtape-renegade> jacobw: I've PM'd you 2 mins ago ...
<popey> Azelphur: on it now âº
<popey> http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/54.243.8.249:27015/top_players/#search
<ali1234> so does juju have a charm for tf2 server?
<popey> ya
<ali1234> cool
<ali1234> but why isn't my steam working?
<ali1234> bash: /usr/bin/steam: No such file or directory
<ali1234> oh wait i know
<ali1234> it's because i accidentally /usr/bin/ and then repaired it from packages
<ali1234> but steam is not on the repos
<ali1234> or wasn't when i installed it
<directhex> davmor2, if Azelphur truly loved me, he'd donate Â£626 of bitcoins so i can buy a new screen!
<ali1234> argh 142 mb steam update
<MartijnVdS> yeah steam updates aren't tiny
<penguin42> directhex: 626 ?! You're not after a cheap screen are you?
<directhex> penguin42, well i wouldn't want to *downgrade*.
<directhex> that'd be silly!
<penguin42> wth do you get for 626?
<penguin42> I mean you can get a 2560x1440 27" for around 450
<MartijnVdS> yay ebay
 * penguin42 means new, not ebay
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you can get new ones from ebay
<MartijnVdS> for that price
<MartijnVdS> or even cheaper
<popey> bah, shopping has arrived
<directhex> penguin42, a *good* 1440p 27" with displayport and an actual usable stand
<popey> how do you go AFK in tf2?
<MartijnVdS> popey: Alt+F3
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> F4
<directhex> popey, hit the team change button, join "spectate"
<Azelphur> popey: what's the address again?
<penguin42> directhex: Oh you're a picky one aren't you....
<directhex> penguin42, i have business raisins for displayport.
<popey> http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/54.243.8.249:27015/top_players/#search
<penguin42> directhex: I prefer chocolate raisins
<MartijnVdS> chocolate raaaai
<MartijnVdS> n
<amayer_> is it better to use steams repo or the default ubuntu repo for steam.
<amayer_> i got steam from the steam repo a while back and now i see it is in the ubuntu repo
<popey> doesnt matter
<penguin42> directhex: ebuyer list a 27" sammy with displayport for 572
<popey> it self-updates
<amayer_> so they will be identical
<Laney> handy for raring users
<amayer_> how come when i type:
<amayer_> sudo apt-get update && apt-cache search steam
<amayer_> steam doesnt show on 12.04LTS? but it shows up in the software center
<Laney> it adds a new repository
<directhex> software center shows a lot of things in custom repositories
<ali1234> i just ran TF2 and it just says "Steam Beta must be running to use Find Servers"
<Laney> can i get steam to not pause a download when i'm playing a game?
<ali1234> but steam clearly is running
<directhex> ali1234, sounds like you have an extremely old steam.deb installed
<directhex> ali1234, i.e. older than 1.0.0.25
<directhex> Laney, sadly, it's down to a game's publisher to mark whether a game needs full bandwidth interwebs or not, and the default is "yes"
<ali1234> directhex: i just installed the one from the software center, and then it did an update
<ali1234> about steam: Build: 14 Feb 2013
<directhex> the steam client, and the steam updater, are distinct entities. steam.deb contains the steam updater, and is responsible for things like enforcing folder structure
<ali1234> how do i check steam updater version?
<directhex> issues with games not detecting steam are usually caused by an out of date updater (i.e. .deb), NOT an out of date client... they sorta need to be kept in tandem
<directhex> ali1234, dpkg -l steam ?
<ali1234> ii  steam                                                 1.0.0.27ubuntu1                 i386                            Installer for the Steam software distribution service
<directhex> ii  steam          1.0.0.27     i386         Installer for the Steam software
<directhex> hm, that should be current then
<ali1234> exactly :/
<ali1234> so, what should i do? delete ~/.steam and start over?
<directhex> mmmmmmm, not sure. worth a shot if you have spare bandwidth
<Azelphur> Anyone happen to have any ideas about TF2 on AMD 7950? on fglrx-updates it won't start ( this bug https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/688 ) on latest it starts, but with poor frame rate
<penguin42> in the end it's a seg so toss up between graphics driver and game code I guess - both of which are closed
<Azelphur> \o/
<penguin42> is anyone else having problems with text corruption in large text entries in firefox - e.g. lp forms where a line won't get redrawn for a while?
<redtape-renegade> âº Authome ! \o/ |
<ali1234> directhex: deleting .steam worked, although it s a symlink and steam just recreated it. but then everything started working.
 * Azelphur buys hacker duality off steam
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-16
<popey> Morning
<MartijnVdS> hi
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> czajkowski: did you know you can get white pudding in Morrisons Aldershot?
<popey> ooh!
<popey> i feel a trip to Morrisons Aldershot is on the cards
<redtape-renegade> âº Authome ! Another Saturday VOID to fill ... Morrisons hey ??!?
<AlanBell> white pudding is nom
<AlanBell> I have my smtpd working great now
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Could I send you another sterling note .. So that when the next distro DVD become available .. you could perchance post it to the ofice , on North Quay ?
<AlanBell> turned out to be much easier to use python smtpd library and listen for the emails directly than mess about with exim
 * popey starts filling the saturday void with chocolate croissants
<AlanBell> redtape-renegade: sure, I just want the return postage really, as long as I am not out of pocket that is fine
<AlanBell> just mark it clearly that you are wanting 13.04 and I won't post it straight back with 12.10 in it :)
<redtape-renegade> .. it's just that I've got the sterling note/s now ( which is not common) ... Oh Ok .. I'll post some Moulin Rouge now then .. Good luck with 13.04 !!
 * redtape-renegade posts the sterling notes & marks down the 13.04 DVD as a fixed asset.. I'll reconcile that, later !
<jacobw> people still buys CDs :|
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: Yes! I do! Lots of them! :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: ones with music on mostly though :)
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: that's OK
<popey> ACTIVITY: APPROVED!
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> i haven't burnt an ISO for so long
<popey> I burned one last weekend for a machine which can't boot off usb
<MartijnVdS> popey: what kind of stone-age machine is that? :)
<jacobw> an archimedes
 * jacobw feels nostalgia for acorns
<popey> HP xe4100
 * dwatkins didn't know Archimedes came with CD drives
<dwatkins> I had a BBC Micro, still got one in fact.
<dwatkins> I'm waiting for this to be back in stock so I can add a USB storage device to it: http://www.retroclinic.com/acorn/datacentre/datacentre.htm
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<jacobw> morning
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<mfraz74> how long should it take to dd a 1TB hard drive?
<MartijnVdS> depends on its transfer rate :)
<mfraz74> both drives are on internal SATA interface, been going for about 2 hours so far
<MartijnVdS> mfraz74: check the pid of the "dd" process ("pidof dd" should do the trick)
<MartijnVdS> mfraz74: then send it SIGUSR1:
<MartijnVdS> kill -USR1 pid_you_found_here
<MartijnVdS> there's a bit about it in the manpage
<popey> I'd expect it to take quite a while
<MartijnVdS> I guess it would.. but the SIGUSR1 thing will give you a progress report
<MartijnVdS> + an average speed
<mfraz74> 721GB copied 99.7 MB/s
<mfraz74> Thanks MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> almost there :)
<mfraz74> Yep
<mfraz74> Just hope the drive works afterwards.
<mfraz74> Been getting drive errors on booting for the past couple of days and have had to run fsck each day to get it working. Hoping that cloing the drive to a fresh one will work
<MartijnVdS> I'd fsck the new drive before booting off it
<mfraz74> will do
<jacobw> dumb question, how does purchasing from the software centre work?
<MartijnVdS> using money?
<jacobw> yes, i'd gotten that far
<MartijnVdS> :)
<MartijnVdS> probably using Ubuntu One.. maybe similar to the music store?
<MartijnVdS> or probaby more like buying extra GBs on U1
<jacobw> Does it give me a token that I use in my HTTP request to get the DEB of what I'm buying?
<MartijnVdS> popey will know
<popey> private PPAs
<popey> is how it works
<jacobw> that's interesting
<popey> when you buy something you get granted access to a private ppa
<jacobw> how?
<gary> hi
<gary> everyone
<MartijnVdS> launchpad credentials?
<popey> how what?
<MartijnVdS> popey: How do you authenticate yourself to the PPA('s web server bits)
<Guest41101> hello
<jacobw> Yes, what MartijnVdS said
<popey> creds are stored in apt config
<Guest41101> i am new to this live chat
<jacobw> Hi Guest41101
<Guest41101> please i need soem help
<Guest41101> some*
<popey> look in /etc/apt/auth.conf
<popey> you'll see creds for everything you have bought
<jacobw> are the private PPAs shared between buyers?
<popey> yes
<Guest41101> i am trying to install the mars jar simulator on ubuntu but it would not run. i click on the folder it just opens with many files inside
<MartijnVdS> it's probably a single PPA with some kind of authentication backend
<popey> well, multiple people have access to the same ppa, yes
 * AlanBell wonders what to use for managing user subscriptions, don't fancy writing that part
<Guest41101> can someone help me
<Guest41101> pls
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: user subscriptions to what?
<MartijnVdS> Guest41101: what's a mars jar simulator?
<AlanBell> exceptionalemails.com
<jacobw> it sounds like a JAR file
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: mailman? :)
<Guest41101> mars V4.2
<Guest41101> is for assembly language
<AlanBell> Guest41101: where did it come from?
<jacobw> Or even plus addressing and smart filtering
<Guest41101> i downloaded from moussori state university website
<AlanBell> http://courses.missouristate.edu/kenvollmar/mars/download.htm then
<jacobw> Guest41101: please run `file /path/to/file` and paste the output at paste.ubuntu.com then paste the URL here for us
<AlanBell> so yeah, that is a java jar file
<jacobw> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<AlanBell> Guest41101: I would assume from a terminal java -jar Mars.jar
<popey> (assuming you have java installed)
<Guest41101> i don't have a java installed
<AlanBell> java -jar Mars4_3.jar
<Guest41101> i thought java run time is already in the linux distribution
<popey> not by default, no
<Guest41101> oh ok
<MartijnVdS> it's available for install through the software centre though
<Guest41101> how do i install the sdk or j2se 1.5
<AlanBell> or sudo apt-get install openjdk-7-jdk
<Guest41101> i am new to using linux
<Guest41101> ok
<popey> i think you mean openjdk-7-jre ?
<MartijnVdS> 1.5 is not supported anymore
<MartijnVdS> Only Java 6 and 7
<Guest41101> let me try to install the java
<jacobw> Can it be installed with the Software Centre?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: yes
<popey> apt://openjdk-7-jre
<popey> if that's a link it should work
<Guest41101> should i use this command in the terminal
<Guest41101> sudo apt-get install openjdk-7-jdk
<AlanBell> yeah, that will work
<popey> ttps://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/openjdk-7-jre/
<jacobw> Yes
<Guest41101> Alnbell?
<popey> or click the link there
 * MartijnVdS hands popey an extra h
<jacobw> s/^/h/
<AlanBell> then java -jar Mars4_3.jar
<popey> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/openjdk-7-jdk/ or there even
 * AlanBell has a look round mars
 * popey gives up and makes lunch âº
 * AlanBell wants lunch
<Guest41101> @Alanbell, i am done with the installation
<Guest41101> so how do i install the Mars jar now
<Guest41101> ?
<AlanBell> you don't need to install it, just run it
<AlanBell> cd Downloads
<AlanBell> java -jar Mars4_3.jar
<AlanBell> and it runs
<Guest41101> ok
<jacobw> If you install openjdk-7-jre do you a file associate in Nautilus for JAR files?
<jacobw> I don't know
<AlanBell> I don't think you do jacobw
<AlanBell> it still opens as a zip file
<AlanBell> it would be nice if jar files automatically ran themselves with java -jar $filename
<AlanBell> but there is probably some purist reason why that is a bad idea, I don't know enough about java really
<jacobw> It's a much more common use case than decompressing the JAR
<AlanBell> it is for someone who has a minecraft.jar file
<AlanBell> but I think there are lots of jar files that are components or libraries of big applications that you wouldn't want to run, but I don't know if that is harmful
<AlanBell> certainly the common use-case for someone who doesn't know what they are doing (me) would be to run the thing
 * AlanBell thinks exceptionalemails.com might end up with a joomla! front end
<jacobw> I like the idea
<Guest41101> @Alan i tried the command on terminal it came out with the message try sudo apt-get install <selected package>
<Guest41101> still not working
<AlanBell> which command?
<Guest41101> java -jar Mars4_3.jar
<AlanBell> and what happens if you type "java -version"
<Guest41101> how you mean
<Guest41101> ?
<popey> install openjdk-7-jre-headless
<AlanBell> just type "java -version" in the terminal, it should tell you what version of java you are running
<AlanBell> popey: it is a gui application
<Guest41101> ok
<popey> so is minecraft
<popey>  dpkg -S /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/jre/bin/java
<popey> openjdk-7-jre-headless:amd64: /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/jre/bin/java
<AlanBell> it should return three lines including OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea7 2.3.6) (7u13-2.3.6-1ubuntu1)
<AlanBell> or close to that
<AlanBell> Guest41101: you are running this on an Ubuntu desktop installation, right?
<Guest41101> It says no command found@Alan
<Guest41101> ubuntu on my laptop
<Guest41101> yeah
<AlanBell> ok, so you didn't install java yet
<popey> did the "sudo apt-get install openjdk-7-jdk" line finish okay?
<Guest41101> k
<popey> aquarius: someone here may be able to help though...
<aquarius> popey, ah, good thought. Anyone feeling knowledgeable about apt and why I'm getting file collides when I try and install the qt5 proper PPA packages to do Ubuntu mobile development?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: i did in fact :) then I can nip over to tesco and get my red lemonade :)
<Guest41101> i hi Alan
<Guest41101> i have just installed java
<Guest41101> ran the coman  java -jar Mars4_3.jar
<Guest41101> it says unable to access jarfile Mars4_3
<Guest41101> hello
<bizup> hi
<bizup> @Alan is me guest
<bizup> is anyone here pls
<bizup> hello
<bizup> hello
<AlanBell> Bizup needs to cd to the right directory
<self> how do u mean
<self> Alanbel
<self> i ran the command and it says
<AlanBell> cd Downloads
<AlanBell> use ls to see if you are in the directory with the jar file
<AlanBell> the browser probably put it in the Downloads directory
<self> pls guide me through
<self> what do i do
<AlanBell> where did you download the file to?
<self> the Mars Jar?
<AlanBell> yes
<self> is on the download
<self> i extracted it there
<AlanBell> don't
<AlanBell> you don't need to extract it, you need to run it
<self> ok
<self> let me delete the extracted copy
<self> still saying unable to access the file
<self> i justdont know what happening
<self> with all the guidance you have given me
<self> it should work
<self> should i redownload it again
<self> ?
<AlanBell> self: have you got the jar file in a directory somewhere?
<self> i just downloaded it and is in the download folder
<AlanBell> right, so in a terminal if you are in the Downloads directory your terminal prompt should look like
<AlanBell> self@selflaptop:~/Downloads$
<AlanBell> or similar
<AlanBell> then if you type "ls" to list the files in that directory you should see Mars4_3.jar
<self> no my terminal is on the user directory
<AlanBell> ok
<self> my computer name
<AlanBell> so "cd Downloads"
<self> i should type the command on terminal?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> cd changes directory
<self> ok
<self> ok
<self> i am there now
<AlanBell> java -jar Mars4_3.jar
<self> the letter D has to be in capital right?
<self> i tried small letters and it did not find it
<AlanBell> it does, things are case sensitive
<AlanBell> !tab
<lubotu3> You can use your <tab> key for autocompletion of nicknames in IRC, as well as for completion of filenames and programs on the command line.
<self> ok
<redtape-renegade> Anyone got an Android here ? http://bit.ly/XfR0CT
<self> you are just one in  a million@Alan
<self> you the best
<self> it works for me now
<self> :)
<self> Thanks so much
<self> are you always here Alan
<AlanBell> \o/
<AlanBell> anyone know how to use wps to set up a printer?
<StevenR> AlanBell: does the printer support WPS?
<AlanBell> StevenR: yeah, as does the router
<AlanBell> pressed the button on each of them, nothing obvious happened
<redtape-renegade> Here's the Wallpaper bundle :: http://bitly.com/bundles/o_4hmeb0pdlm/1
<StevenR> is WPS *enabled* on the router?
<StevenR> (I turn it off, for example, and some routers ship with it disabled)
<self> @Alan is working now
<AlanBell> StevenR: ok, found a wps thing in the router config
<AlanBell> not sure the button on the printer that I think is a WPS button is in fact a WPS button
 * AlanBell has to pop out
 * popey puts AlanBell back in again
 * AlanBell has a printer working
<AlanBell> that was harder than it needed to be
<kvarley> Who is responsible for the TF2 server that Canonical is sponsoring this weekend, anybody know? The server is out of date!
<BigRedS> I _really_ wish there was a small download I could do to find out if TF2 will work on my laptop
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: what kind of graphics card do you have?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and CPU?
<MartijnVdS> apparently it's flaky on Intel CPUs (it only works Sandy/Ivy bridge or newer, and even then I've heard it's crashy)
<MartijnVdS> but AMD/NVidia should work as long as they support GLSL 1.3
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: pre-sandy Intel
<MartijnVdS> you'll get a black screen
<MartijnVdS> if you force GLSL 1.3 mode, you'll get a tiny window in the top right with everything inverted and mirrored
<MartijnVdS> and then it crashes
<BigRedS> Ah. That *was* a small download to find out
<BigRedS> :)
<BigRedS> about 200 chars
 * MartijnVdS tried that 8-)
<BigRedS> whoah, CS works really well, though
<BigRedS> I think this is still an anally-free Debian
<BigRedS> Oh. No it isn't. But, still, games on debian? Whodathunkit
<SuperEngineer> art'noon all
<brobostigon> afternoonings SuperEngineer
<directhex> dxssssssssssssssssssss\zz\zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzaop'#################kmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,
<SuperEngineer> hi brobostigon
<jacobw> directhex: as you say
<SuperEngineer> had great "fun" last night installing steam - then "updating" nvidia driver...
<SuperEngineer> "a newer driver" blah blah... so went for earliest of experimentals [304]
<SuperEngineer> then steam told me a newer was [310] was available
<SuperEngineer> ...reallly *should* have ignoored that message ;)
<SuperEngineer> *ignored
<SuperEngineer> ...anybody here using steam - nvidia - 12.04.2 ?
<directhex> i wish
<SuperEngineer> I'm not knocking steam - it was a driver fail - with a lot of tiredness at 1am, and a lot of perseverence via obtuse methods - got driver back down to 304 - phew
 * SuperEngineer is now proud owner of Half Life and of World of Goo - for extortionate price of Â£3.23 - good on ya steam, thanks for the go-live special sale
<dwatkins> I'm surprised this stuff isn't easy, SuperEngineer.
<dwatkins> downgrading a driver, that is
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: the reason I think it was a cottupt download was that I ended up booting to previous kernel, trying to back down 1 by 1..
<dwatkins> kaputt? corrupt?
<SuperEngineer> ...I eventually found the only one that would take was the opiginal nvidia [version current]
<SuperEngineer> ...sys would boot but x total fail - text login then xsstart gave me the clue
<SuperEngineer> ...mixed [failed] versions
<dwatkins> how do you uninstall a gfx driver form the command line? with apt?
<SuperEngineer> ...but I'm tempted to give it another go - just to stop the annoying "an updated driver...] message every time I start steam!
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: if that last was meant for me... I didn't
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: how did you downgrade the driver in the end?
<SuperEngineer> I found "alternative method - out of sheer tiredness and being a bit cheesed off
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: booted to earlier kernel, found that although it wasn't perfect it gave me x
<SuperEngineer> ..then fired upo Additional Drivers from there
<dwatkins> cool
<SuperEngineer> ...I'm sure that method is not recommended [& have not found in any Googling] - but - when tired but determined, *it worked*
<SuperEngineer> ;D
<SuperEngineer> [btw - my only disappointment with Steam is that they haven't got Tiny Inferno on Linux yet, just windoze
<SuperEngineer> ...and that it's not in the sale ;)
 * SuperEngineer is a cheapskate
<livingdaylight> I'm looking at ubuntu tv and ubuntu for android. Are these realities now or plans for the future. I saw no 'how-to' link
<popey> ubuntu for android exists, but it's not avaliable to buy _yet_
<livingdaylight> but one can download and install it presumably?
<popey> not yet
<livingdaylight> and ubuntu tv?
<BigRedS> Anyone know what that PHP extension is/was that'll produce a picture showing which functions are used and how much?
<livingdaylight> ok, so they are still plans
<BigRedS> I think an Alan used it; AlanBell?
<livingdaylight> any idea when they should become available?
<mgdm> BigRedS: xhprof
<mgdm> BigRedS: or xdebug can do it too, with the right options
<BigRedS> mgdm: aha! Ta! xdebug's installed already, I'll go rtfm better :)
<mgdm> BigRedS: http://www.xdebug.org/docs/profiler
<mgdm> BigRedS: http://code.google.com/p/webgrind/ might be interesting too
<BigRedS> oh, cool, cheers!
<mgdm> if you have loadsamoney you can use New Relic, which is awesome, but quite pricey
<bigcalm_xoom> Afternoon peeps :-)
<mgdm> o/
<bigcalm_xoom> Finally have windows 7 and ubuntu 12.10 running on this box. Though I had to buy a 2nd drive to do so.
<bigcalm_xoom> Fresh install of ubuntu 12.10 worked OK. Let it install the 272 updates and now unity isn't starting correctly
<bigcalm_xoom> Login screen works OK. Login and the default background is there, but nothing else
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: try going to VT1 (Ctrl+Alt+F1) and restarting lightdm
<MartijnVdS> that worked for me
<bigcalm_xoom> MartijnVdS: that will put me back at the login and then I get the same result
<bigcalm_xoom> Ctrl alt f1 gives me a flashing cursor and nothing else.
 * bigcalm_xoom installs xubutu-desktop hope this works
 * penguin42 wonders how to stop firefox using it's unbuilt pdf viewer - it's pants
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it has one now?
<MartijnVdS> the one in chrome is OK
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: It's slow at high zooms and I just like either evince or okular
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... got a big whoopsie here - none of last night's magic working... tried updating to nvidia latest experimental again... *fail* - this time unable to revert
<SuperEngineer> ..any ideas
<SuperEngineer> [cureently on previous 12.04 kernel [.36] - nothing takes in .37
<SuperEngineer> *currently
<SuperEngineer> ...and only able to revert to nvidia current - in one word... *heeeeelp!*
<popey> bigcalm_xoom: what video driver is installed?
<popey> bigcalm_xoom: pastebin your /var/log/Xorg.0.log when it boots to blank desktop
<SuperEngineer> popey: only just come back online - was that for me or bigcalm_xoom
<SuperEngineer> ...and there goes my penultimae option! i wonder if removing the 3,2,0,27 kernel itself and reinstalling would work
<SuperEngineer> *penultimate
<SuperEngineer> ...and whoopsie again - just realised, .37 kernel
<SuperEngineer> sigh... despite the lack of response I myself remain helpful... anyone using 12.04.2, nVidia Geforce 21n series, and kernel 3.2.0.37  - *do not* try the 310 version of the driver as it = borked xsystem, stay with 304, despite Steam's annoying reminders
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Have you got a bug filed on that - so that's an install from 12.04.1 upgraded ?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: no - not yet, only just got a working system back [using 3.3.36 kernel] - givvus a chance mate ;)
<penguin42> hehe
<SuperEngineer> been busy posting warning on twitter & mail list
<SuperEngineer> ...& if anyone replies "why don't you just get a newer pooter?" ... moider is to be expected!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Don't worry, you can hide the body in some beefburgers
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: :D
<SuperEngineer> file bug or watch Dr. Who? hmmm - no choice!
<penguin42> that's what PVRs are for - get your priorities right!
<SuperEngineer> personal viewing rights - Dr. Who still wins ;)
 * AlanBell starts a team meeting thingummy over in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<SuperEngineer> darn - another Dr Who disturbance ;)
<DJones> Question from my Dad "My laptop keeps shutting down, any idea why?"
<DJones> Any suggestions welcome, you have the same diagnostic info as me
<penguin42> fluf in the fan
<SuperEngineer> loose battery
<DJones> They're about as good as you can get without more info
<DJones> Apart from the '72 year old user error, clicking shutdown and forgetting"
<penguin42> how old is the laptop and what surface is it on?
<DJones> 2-3 years old and sat on the armrest of the sofa
<DJones> And its running W7, so could be anything, a b utterfly farted in central america, so Win 7 decides to shut down :)
<popey> hah
<SuperEngineer> Is it safe to completely remove a linux image newer than one in current session via synaptic?
<SuperEngineer> ...worries me as it also wants to remove linux-image & linux-image-generic
<bigcalm_xoom> Found a bug while resizing a partition during the installer. Accedently tried to resize larger than the disk. Now I'm getting an error box of "can't have a partition outside of the disk!" That keeps coming back as soon as I clear it
<popey> bigcalm_xoom: take screenshots / photos to file a bug?
<popey> I'm sure xnox would be interested âº
<xnox> bigcalm_xoom: manual partitioning or the automatic resize widget?
<bigcalm_xoom> Manual
<xnox> and not kubuntu?!
<bigcalm_xoom> No
<xnox> bigcalm_xoom: ubuntu-bug ubiquity and please describe what you did. I can look at it next time i'll be poking manual partitioning.
<bigcalm_xoom> I will try
<brobostigon> question, do those tablet bottle, that have that push-screw top, seal tablets properly?
<bigcalm_xoom> Oh dear, ubuntu-bug says that ubiquity is not an official ubuntu package and can't be reported
 * bigcalm_xoom restarts and tries to be more careful
<SuperEngineer> ah well... taking the chance anyway
 * SuperEngineer crrosses fingies
<xnox> =/
<xnox> bigcalm_xoom: it may take a while for us to catch on that the bug-reporting tool has a bug
<bigcalm_xoom> Hehe
<xnox> bigcalm_xoom: are you launching that from the cd?
<SuperEngineer> & promises to do update-grub before restart!
<bigcalm_xoom> Xbox: fresh 12.10 image from a USB stick. Selected up
<bigcalm_xoom> Gah
<bigcalm_xoom> Selected download updates while installing and install 3rd party software
 * bigcalm_xoom returns to watching MIB2 on bluray with his lovely lady
<mgdm> bigcalm_xoom: enjoy
<bigcalm_xoom> Ta :)
<rindolf> Hi all.
<bigcalm_xoom> Hayley hasn't seen it. Should be fun
<bigcalm_xoom> Oh, might be what you called the resize widget. I wasn't in disk
 * bigcalm_xoom runs away
<SuperEngineer> ok, fully removed 3.2.0.37, updated grub... before I reboot, did i miss anything obvious?
<BigRedS> nah, you'll have missed something hidden
<SuperEngineer> thanks for the confidence BigRedS
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> no worries!
<SuperEngineer> ..and that's another added to "ignore"
<popey> ?
<SuperEngineer> popey: another racist named user
<popey> oh missed that
<czajkowski> popey: oh I share the same bug as you
<czajkowski> bug #1041790
<lubotu3> bug 1041790 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[sandybridge-m-gt2] GPU lockup IPEHR: 0x0b160001 IPEHR: 0x0b140001" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041790
<popey> annoying isnt it?
<czajkowski> VERY
<czajkowski> between that and my wifi bug little bit frustrated
<czajkowski> logged a new bug for the wifi as the kernel folks think it's different
<czajkowski> but have also confirmed it
<SuperEngineer> wish me luck folks - here goes the reboot after removing a newer kernel. If I'm not back soon, you'll know why ;;)
<SuperEngineer> ...Iiiii'mmmm baa-aaaack!
<SuperEngineer> ...kernel remove / reinstal worked
 * SuperEngineer wonders if he dare try his luck and go for an nvidia driver update as well? 
<SuperEngineer> to paraphrase a certain writer... I'm a braver man than you, Gungadin!
<SuperEngineer> darn! where are those nvidia drivers hiding.. I go for a download, no network activity followed by
<SuperEngineer> 2failed
<SuperEngineer> 2
<SuperEngineer> I'm sure I need to remove old downloads... somehow
<SuperEngineer> [sub 2/"]
<SuperEngineer> if it wasn't for getting steam back I'd be happy using nvidia current
<SuperEngineer> 'ang on - just tried the games downloaded this morning, they still work!  It's just Steam that wants updated drivers
<SuperEngineer> ...so call it quits and kill Steam?  ...but will that also remove the games?
<SuperEngineer> any ideas?
<SuperEngineer> aww come on! there must be someone out there with a brain still working
<SuperEngineer> hmm... apparently not.
<SuperEngineer> Oh well, here I go, on my own, down that same ol' road again.
<SuperEngineer> [hope nobody else uses that lyric]  ;)
<phillw> SuperEngineer: maybe worth asking on #ubuntu-steam ? Yes, it does exist :)
<SuperEngineer> thanks phillw - didn't know!
<phillw> SuperEngineer: it was a lucky guess! Didn't have to google for it :D
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> & it's got 101 users!
<SuperEngineer> looking at clock,,, think I'll call it quits with achievements so far...
<SuperEngineer> [back to useable 3.3.0-37 kernel, nvidia [verion current], ganes downloaded this morning working fully again]
<SuperEngineer> ...will ask on ubuntu-steam tomorrow - when brain less tired
<SuperEngineer> & thanks again for the heads-up phillw
<SuperEngineer> ttfn
<phillw> SuperEngineer: take care!
<SuperEngineer> will do
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-17
<ali1234> bug 1048556
<lubotu3> bug 1048556 in Ubuntu Translations "Language pack translations export needs to add universe packages to domain map" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048556
<ali1234> https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-runtime <- is this what it looks like?
<ali1234> "valve linux"
<ali1234> i see crosstool and buildroot
<ali1234> sure, it's meant to be a chroot... but how hard would it be to throw on a kernel and make it the main system?
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> i wrote a program to stress gnome-panel and find leaks
<ali1234> found a leak in metacity instead
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1669331/
<ali1234> makes metacity memory usage increase about about 500kb/sec
<MartijnVdS> just normal window actions?
<ali1234> minimize, maximize, show, hide
<ali1234> trying to narrow down the cause now
<ali1234> ok, it's show/hide
<ali1234> minimizing also does it... looks like any state change on the window
<ali1234> as usual, valgrind does not consider it a real memory leak. because gnome developers are doing their usual trick of putting stuff in a hash table and then never using it again.
<MartijnVdS> "It's still reachable!"
<ali1234> hmm... it's actually weirder than that
<ali1234> so because certain XEvents do not have a time stamp (apparently) metacity sends dummy property changes and then waits for the event to return (with a timestamp)
<ali1234> it does this a lot
<ali1234> and when it does it, it doesn't properly free the XEvent
<MartijnVdS> yay non-timestamped events
<MartijnVdS> I've heard more people complain about those
<ali1234> if this code is in mutter i will scream
<ali1234> this might actually be an X11 bug
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://xkcd.com/349/
<ali1234> when an XEvent happens it mallocs some memory
<ali1234> when the event is handled it doesn't free the event, it puts it into a list to be reused
<ali1234> but then it never reuses it
<ali1234> it just mallocs more and more forever
<ali1234> this is in libX11
<ali1234> that's why it is still reachable
<ali1234> ah, i see what's happening
<ali1234> i'm filling the event queue faster than metacity can handle it
<ali1234> so it keep generating more and more events because the old ones aren't free yet
<ali1234> the unused events then build up and never get freed
<ali1234> apparently metacity can only handle 4 events/ms
<ali1234> wait, no, i mean it takes 4ms to handle 1 event
<SuperEngineer> morninks all
<jacobw> morning SuperEngineer
<dwatkins> hi di hi
<SuperEngineer> o?
<SuperEngineer> [that's a very tired version of "o/"]
<SuperEngineer> ...up again till wee hours this a.m.
<SuperEngineer> my prize... I got my .37 kernel back, I got my nvidia 304 experimental back... I've got my system back!
<dwatkins> hooray, SuperEngineer - now run a backup ;)
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: done already! ;)
<dwatkins> excellent - what do you use to backup, SuperEngineer?
<SuperEngineer> a separate drive in same pooter - and rsync'd whole of /home
 * SuperEngineer makes mental note to buy external drive and backup whole damn system! âº
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: yeah, that's what I'm just about to do
<dwatkins> I wonder what the best mechanism is - turn off the machine and boot from an external USB stick so no files are in use, perhaps
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: you could save me some Â£Â£Â£ here - send me your external drive [pretty please] ;)
<dwatkins> lol
<dwatkins> I need my drives for my own backups, I have several PCs.
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: protip: get 100/100 fibre, everyone's drive will be your external drive with sshfs ;)
 * MartijnVdS mounts $VPS that way
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: you're lucky in that you can get that
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: You're free to move to the Netherlands ;)
<dwatkins> I am, yes.
<dwatkins> I may need to learn Dutch first.
<MartijnVdS> The only people who don't speak English are <10 years old
<dwatkins> ah ok, I imagine it might be useful to speak Dutch in a technical support job, though.
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS:  ;)
<SuperEngineer> Anyone else using Steam here... and have Puddle - I'm getting tempted
<MartijnVdS> I've only played half-life through steam
<dwatkins> I played TF2 a couple weeks ago, not seen Puddle.... *starts Steam*
<AlanBell> just read that TF2 is a 12GB download, that can't be right can it?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it is..
<dwatkins> wouldn't entirely surprise me, AlanBell
<MartijnVdS> 1GB of game engine, basic models etc
<MartijnVdS> 11GB of hats.
 * AlanBell has a hat
<AlanBell> why does a game have hats?
<dwatkins> monetisation
<jacobw> DLC
 * SuperEngineer found great joy in deleting Half-Life from windoze partition & having it here instead
<jacobw> HL/CS is old :(
<SuperEngineer> ...but fun
<jacobw> I'm quite exciting by the prospect of running CS:S on my Ubuntu laptop
<SuperEngineer> Just a thought - I hope all this Steam commotion doesn't make people forget things like DOSbox
<AlanBell> my dns is a bit screwy this morning
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: some steam games ARE dosbox + the old DOS game :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but those haven't been ported to Linux yet (should be easy for the devs though)
<dwatkins> My Ubuntu PC is now my newest gaming console, I have an xbox controller which seems to work fine with it and am downloading TF2 :)
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: that makes me wonder if gog.com supports Linux...
<directhex> AlanBell, 12GB isn't too big by modern standards, really
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: wow!
<directhex> an MMORPG is much bigger
<SuperEngineer> Barry Drake on mail list has just confirmed same problem as I had with newest driver requested by Steam...
<directhex> but look at it this way - if a game is meant to be played at 1080p, then how many high resolution texture files need to ship? how much space to high res pictures take? see also sounds, 3d models, maps, badgers
<SuperEngineer> ...and has a much easier way out than it took me to resolve last night!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: 3d models are actually one of the smaller things, even with 6 billion polys
<directhex> MartijnVdS, true
<MartijnVdS> yay vectors
<AlanBell> yeah, I figured they would be comparable to console games bug I guess they are going to be bigger than lego harry potter on the wii
<AlanBell> s/bug/but
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: console games come on blu-ray discs, which can store up to 50GB
<directhex> point is, taking tf2 as the example, the game's full set of executables and libraries is under 90 meg. of which 51 meg is libcef.so (Chromium Embedded Framework, i.e. the in-game hat store's web browser engine)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<directhex> -rwxrwxr-x  1 directhex directhex 5.3G Feb 16 09:45 Team Fortress 2 Content.gcf
<directhex> -rwxrwxr-x  1 directhex directhex 4.5G Feb 16 09:45 Team Fortress 2 Materials.gcf
<directhex> AlanBell, you're correct that games targetting the xbox 360 first tends to weigh in at ~5 gig, due to DVD limitations
<directhex> AlanBell, if they target PC first, then just a decent set of textures compared to what the 360 can manage will bump that up a lot
<AlanBell> I will try and see one of these games one day
<directhex> well, let's use GTA4 as an example
<jacobw> dwatkins: an Xbox controll w/ Ubuntu
<directhex> it's a single-disc xbox 360 game, right?
<AlanBell> I guess. I am sure they are fun, I was just a bit surprised at it being bigger than a film
<AlanBell> we only have a playstation 2 and a wii
<AlanBell> I guess I haven't seen any modern games of the generation after those
<AlanBell> apart from angry birds
<directhex> the ps2 is 13 years old
<dwatkins> jacobw: yes
<directhex> let's use some concrete examples. here's GTA on PS2: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/04/gtasa.jpg
<directhex> and here's GTA on a PC, with a graphics enhancement mod: http://metalarcade.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/gta_4_icenhancer_6.jpg
<dwatkins> The cobblestones have no undulation, I feel cheated.
<jacobw> dwatkins: how?
<AlanBell> that is quite a difference
<directhex> here's The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim, on 2006's Xbox 360: http://gamingbolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/oi5iq.jpg
<directhex> the same game, on pc, with a few mods scattered about: http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/deadalive.jpg
<directhex> oh here we go, a better comparable shot: http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/aircav.jpg
<directhex> er, http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/arboretum.jpg
<directhex> or http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/dawnofwar.jpg if you prefer
<directhex> either way, that's the technology gap applied to the same game
<jacobw> wow
<directhex> or http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/1920/greenzone.jpg is another nice one. generally, deadendthrills.com shows what a few mods can do with a pc game
<jacobw> that's a remarkable difference
<jacobw> how do the mods work?
<directhex> jacobw, http://deadendthrills.com/index.php?cat=1643 explains the purpose of every mod used for deadendthrills screenshots
<directhex> installing all the mods is *hard work*. i mostly just install the apchaii hair
<jacobw> is that a texture?
<directhex> there are some limited texture mods... most of skyrim's worst texture crimes were taken care of by the free 7 gig "high res texture pack"  dlc.
<directhex> http://store.steampowered.com/app/202485/
<MartijnVdS> I like how Half-Life (1) has a "high-res texture and model pack"
<directhex> lots of inferior shaders though, which many mods try to address
<MartijnVdS> but it's from 2000 or something so it's still not large (or very high-res) :)
<directhex> those are the higher resolution models made for the dreamcast version of half-life
<directhex> which was cancelled at the last minute
<MartijnVdS> directhex: they're also used in Blue Shift
<directhex> so all the dreamcast content - the high res models, and the mini campaign starring a guard, ended up in a standalone retail release for PC - blue shift
<directhex> the main visible difference is scientists' ties are textures originally & separate polygons with the new models
<MartijnVdS> the guns look a lot more detailed as well
<MartijnVdS> and the berets of the military "captains" are black, not red
<jacobw> Does Microsoft provide ISOs for installing Windows 7 now?
<directhex> er, somewhere. hang on.
<directhex> 32 or 64 bit?
<directhex> and which version (home premium, professional, etc)
<jacobw> 32bit professional
<MartijnVdS> Yes
<MartijnVdS> official ISOs are available
<MartijnVdS> they work as a 30-day trial, unless you have a valid registration code (then they work as a full install)
<directhex> http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24280.iso
<directhex> i think that's English Professional x86
<jacobw> Thanks
<MartijnVdS> I re-installed Win7 on my Vaio using that to get rid of Sony crapware
<jacobw> VAIO is not Linux friendly IIRC
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: mine is all-intel, and the 3G chip is even supported if you get the firmware from your Windows partition
<MartijnVdS> even the fingerprint sensor works with a bit of hacking
<jacobw> Huh, that's good
<popey> morning
<kvarley> Annoying...I just made a USB installer of ubuntu and it works on my laptop but will not boot on my desktop
<kvarley> It accesses it then just says boot failure
<kvarley> Hmmm apparently formatting the media in windows is supposed to work
<kvarley> BIOS systems are so annoying because they're non-standard
<kvarley> Some are amazing and some are utterly hopeless
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: you haven't booted enough UEFI systems
<penguin42> kvarley: When did you last see an amazing one?
<kvarley> penguin42: I have an Asus board with a GUI BIOS which is amazing
<kvarley> Every feature is easy to find and it works really well
<kvarley> My laptop one can do all the things I need but it's hard to find stuff
<kvarley> My desktop one is just awful unless you're messing with power settings or clock speeds then it's average
<kvarley> Is there such thing as an open source bios?
<penguin42> there is
<kvarley> Any good?
<penguin42> lookup coreboot
<penguin42> kvarley: The problem is it has to be ported to each type of hardware
<kvarley> penguin42: Do any hardware manufacturers ship an open source bios?
<kvarley> Weirdly, making my usb installer in windows worked
<penguin42> kvarley: not that I'm aware of; EFI itself I think is under an open license (or some part of it?)
<kvarley> computer just hot rebooted
<MartijnVdS> sounds fun
<kvarley> Managed to get gparted loaded up
<kvarley> So I'm one step closer
<MartijnVdS> with random reboots, I'd be afraid to run that
<kvarley> It's fine, everything is backed up
<kvarley> Worst case I'll just wipe it all and start again
<kvarley> Moving a 100 GB partition, only gonna take 5 mins. SSD win :)
<MartijnVdS> took half an hour on my SSD
<MartijnVdS> but that was NTFS, maybe that matters
<directhex> er, moving how?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: sda: | Dead space | sda1: Windows Partition | Free space |
<MartijnVdS> directhex: after move:" sda: | sda1: Windows Partition | Free space |
<directhex> so not LVM then
<MartijnVdS> no, gparted
<directhex> ok. there's a data loss bug when moving LVM partitions on an SSD
<MartijnVdS> there is?
<directhex> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/+bug/1082325
<MartijnVdS> how would that work? over-eager TRIM?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1082325 in lvm2 (Ubuntu Quantal) "pvmove wipes data when issue_discards=1 on SSD" [Medium,Triaged]
<directhex> yes, over-eager TRIM!
<penguin42> hmm why's that only a medium on quantal
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: because 3 people use LVM on SSD
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I doubt that!
<MartijnVdS> okay, 5
<penguin42> I guess it's an optional feature and only affects a pvmove which is relatively rare
<celesteh> hello, i have a m-audio fast track ultra, which is a usb soundcard. It works fine with jack, but when i open the sound preferences pane to try to route normal system audio through it, it does not show up anywhere there.  can i use it with pulse audio, or is it jack only?
<penguin42> does it show up in /proc/asound/cards ?
<bigcalm_xoom> Goodness, am I still here?
<jacobw> yes
<bigcalm_xoom> Whoops :)
<bigcalm_xoom> The tweet from this morning is the most popular thing I've ever done. 11 replies, 60 retweets and 17 favorites
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: what did you say now? ;)
<bigcalm_xoom> Each time I unlock my phone there are more notifications waiting
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: what kind of graphics card do you have?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: because I've been able to use multi-monitor since forever on intel
<bigcalm_xoom> MartijnVdS: nvidia geforce gtx 660
<MartijnVdS> hope it works after the next dist-upgrade then ;)
<bigcalm_xoom> MartijnVdS: 2 DVI and 1 HDMI on the same card
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: I won't re-tell the story of re-installing the nvidia driver on coworkers' machines
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<bigcalm_xoom> MartijnVdS: I upgraded compiz and the system is already dead. I need to work out how to fix it
<bigcalm_xoom> MartijnVdS: this setup was out of the box 12.10. I haven't installed binary drivers yet
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: wow, nouveau is getting better then :)
<bigcalm_xoom> MartijnVdS: it is dog slow though. I want to install the nvidia binary, but I don't know if it will able able to still keep the setup I have
<MartijnVdS> the nvidia tools should allow you to set it up similarly
<bigcalm_xoom> Coffee be drank. Time to go shopping
<MartijnVdS> but I don't think you can use the "normal" Ubuntu way
<bigcalm_xoom> No, I think you are right there
<bigcalm_xoom> I. Going to have to write a blog post to answer all of the questions
 * bigcalm_xoom zooms away
<bigcalm_xoom> Aww, I wrote xooms but it got auto corrected
<mine> How can I save VLC Player downloaded from terminal as setup for future installations?
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> sound seems to have gone
<czajkowski> and no idea why
<czajkowski> I can hear the drums on start up
<czajkowski> then no sound on any other application
<czajkowski> not even on the test sound
<czajkowski> :/
 * penguin42 wonders who gave me a bytemark rec - whoever it was thanks
<czajkowski> I had sound
<czajkowski> I was playing rhytmbox
<czajkowski> and now nothing
<czajkowski> this is very confusing
<penguin42> czajkowski: There are a few things can happen; are you using pulse?
<czajkowski> penguin42: if it's the default then yes
<czajkowski> as I've never changed a setting
<penguin42> ok
<penguin42> czajkowski: so the most likely thing is you've muted it somehow
<penguin42> czajkowski: but it's also possible something other than pulse grabbed the sound card, or that pulse is now sending it somewhere else - like up your HDMI connection if you have one
<penguin42> czajkowski: what does the command   pactl info    say as the 'default sink'
<czajkowski> when I go into the sound setting it can see an input
<czajkowski> and an output looks to be not muted
<czajkowski> but when I test left/right
<czajkowski> nothing
<czajkowski> most odd
<czajkowski> Default Sink: alsa_output.pci-0000_00_1b.0.analog-stereo
<penguin42> ok, that's good - sounds like an internal Intel audio
<czajkowski> penguin42: I've rebooted twice and still not working though
<penguin42> czajkowski: How about   lsof /dev/snd/*   is it all pulseaudi as the command?
<czajkowski> penguin42: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1671627/
<penguin42> czajkowski: Nope, lsof   it's a command
<czajkowski> penguin42: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1671637/
 * bigcalm sneaks in
<penguin42> czajkowski: Yeh that's ok
<penguin42> czajkowski: ok, can you pastebin the output of    amixer
<czajkowski> penguin42: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1671652/
<penguin42> hmm I think that's OK as well.  Hmm
<penguin42> czajkowski: You on speaker or phones?
<czajkowski> tis a bit odd
<czajkowski> speaker
<penguin42> ok
<penguin42> czajkowski: Try installing paman and look at the properties on the sink
<czajkowski> penguin42: ok will do
<czajkowski> thanks
<penguin42> czajkowski: You could also try  pasuspender  cat /bin/ls > /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p     which should sound truly awful
<czajkowski> nothing
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> you've remembered to turn your amp on haven't you? :-)
<czajkowski> just my laptop
<czajkowski> this is really begining to confuse me
<penguin42> czajkowski: Only thing I've got left is to run  alsamixer   and check all the options; any binary selectors just try flipping them and see if it springs into life
<czajkowski> penguin42: thanks for the help
<czajkowski> much appreciated
<penguin42> let me know if you find out what did it
<czajkowski> penguin42: went to other user and foud sound working
<czajkowski> rebooted twice more
<czajkowski> and now have sound
<czajkowski> boggles
<czajkowski> plan vlc and it stops
<czajkowski> now back to square one
<penguin42> hmm odd
<penguin42> anything in dmesg?
<czajkowski> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1671866/
<penguin42> nothing interesting
<bigcalm> Updated compiz and it doesn't like my system :(
<penguin42> what did it do to you?
<bigcalm> Pendulum: https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/JMnvLfhYiDN
<bigcalm> oops :)
<bigcalm> penguin42:  https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/JMnvLfhYiDN
<bigcalm> Pendulum: sorry :)
 * penguin42 swings
<penguin42> bigcalm: Looks like graphics driver to me - text console+mouse pointer is quaint
<bigcalm> penguin42: that's what I thought :)
<bigcalm> penguin42: except that it's the default graphics driver that comes with Ubuntu 12.10
<penguin42> which hardware?
<bigcalm> nVidia GeForce GTX 660
<bigcalm> But using the free driver that comes with xorg
<penguin42> any crash info in /var/log/Xorg.0.log or /var/log/lightdm ?
<penguin42> bigcalm: You're dual head with one on its side?
<penguin42> bigcalm: The nouveau driver on 12.10 is a bit touchy for me; I run with KDE, have to disable the OpenGL effects for it to work, and also it's a bit touchy when switching monitors on my work laptop; some monitors if I boot with it plugged in it's unhappy but if I add the monitor later it's OK; some are fine either way
<bigcalm> penguin42: http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/
<penguin42> bigcalm: Nice - Yeh I think you found _the_ working combination of unity/graphics driver that worked :-(
<bigcalm> Worked once
<penguin42> nod
<bigcalm> I'm on my laptop atm. Might go and pastebinit on the xorg log
<penguin42> nod
<BigRedS> myrant.net? There's a domain I'll be forever envious of
<penguin42> you wouldn't think myrant would go well with bigcalm would you?
<BigRedS> haha!
<jacobw> lol
<BigRedS> Yeah, I'd not noticed that
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I also own and use idophp.co.uk :)
<penguin42> I guess someone has to!
<bigcalm> :P
<BigRedS>  yeah, I'd be less proud of that one :)
<bigcalm> Pfft
<bigcalm> I don't use smutsmith.com as much as I'd like to ;)
<penguin42> bigcalm: While nouveau is a heck of a lot better than it was, it's still touchy with multiple monitors is my experience
<penguin42> but at least it seems stable when you get it in a mood it likes
<bigcalm> penguin42: I don't think that my problem right now is to do with multiple monitors.
<penguin42> bigcalm: OK
<bigcalm> penguin42: I've updated compiz, not the gfx driver
 * bigcalm nips off to do the pastebin thing
<bigcalm> Humm. Just booted and it's all working just fine
<bigcalm> Grr at computers
<penguin42> haha
<bigcalm> Now to ever so slowly pick my way though each of the 236 remaining updates
<penguin42> not just going for it?
<bigcalm> penguin42: no. Because that video is the result of 'just going for it'
<bigcalm> The video also depicted my view once upgrading compiz on its own, hence posting it
<bigcalm> Humm. Spotify likes to freeze the whole desktop now and then. That's a new feature
<Azelphur> is Skype for Linux still terrible, I abandoned ship a couple of years ago
<bigcalm> Azelphur: I prefer it over the Windows version
<bigcalm> Azelphur: and use it daily
<Azelphur> that sounds promising o.O
<Azelphur> I've been anti-skype ever since their android/linux bullshit
<bigcalm> !ohmy | Azelphur
<lubotu3> Azelphur: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> it's hard to use a nice word ;)
<BigRedS> what's their android/linux, er, stuff?
<BigRedS> I've only ever used it on those two platforms
<BigRedS> I dislike it for the UI being atrocious more than anything else, but I don't imagine it's any better on Windows
<bigcalm> It's more irritating on Windows
<penguin42> Azelphur: I guess you'll have to stick to turlingdrome, swut, joojooflop or ...Belgium
<Azelphur> BigRedS: in the early android days, there was no Skype client, people made gateway apps which Skype actively blocked.
<Azelphur> as for Linux, lack of support/updates
<Azelphur> penguin42: Belgium sounds fun
<penguin42>  <shock>
<Azelphur> back when I used skype 2.x, it'd continually crash (silently) and leak memory \o/
<Azelphur> so I'm sort of hesitant to give it another go, might do though
<Azelphur> what with MSN disappearing and all.
<penguin42> Google talk?
<Azelphur> yea, google talk and IRC are always my best ports of call.
<MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/alyankovic/status/303196218807439360
<jacobw> Skype 4 is good
<Azelphur> fun
<BigRedS> Azelphur: Skype's always worked for me. I use it incredibly infrequently, though
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> as I say I was never disputing it working, just it being terrible
<BigRedS> I'd use something else, but there isn't really a free replacement
<Azelphur> indeed, there needs to be a decent replacement
<Azelphur> although, ekiga 4 looks pretty awesome
<AlanBell> free -m
<AlanBell> gah
<AlanBell> too many keyboards on this desk
<zleap> lol
<BigRedS> Synergy!
<BigRedS> (also, it's 2013. update your muscle memory to free -g)
<czajkowski> penguin42: killall pulseaudio gives me back sound
<penguin42> czajkowski: Hmm
<AlanBell> not more pulseaudio /o\
 * bigcalm slithers in and hugs Ubuntu
<AlanBell> it is fixed now surely
<bigcalm> System seems to be playing ball this evening so far.
<bigcalm> When loading an app in unity, is is possible to tell it which of my 3 screens it should start on?
<Azelphur> Anyone here who's good at VOIP, is it somehow possible to map my own domain to call me, without running my own VOIP server?
<Azelphur> maybe SRV records or something?
<BigRedS> yeah, voip uses srv records
<BigRedS> so you'd set up voip srv records pointing at whoever provides your voip
<BigRedS> they should tell you what they should be
<Azelphur> that's sweet :o
<Azelphur> I'm with sipgate.co.uk
<AlanBell> just updated offspring computers running 12.10, wondering if 13.04 will be a performance boost for them
<BigRedS> the record is something like _sip._tcp.domain , but I can never remember.
<BigRedS> 13.04 was just a massive pile of crashes for me
<penguin42> AlanBell: My boot time on 13.04 is much better than 12.10 was
<penguin42> AlanBell: It also looks like 13.04 has just switched to low latency kernels that should be intersting
<AlanBell> I am running 13.04 with no drama on my laptop, but that is a core i3 with 8GB ram and SSD. The kids have atom class computers with 1 or 2GB and spinning rust disks
<penguin42> AlanBell: Nod, I do worry that sometimes devs only test for SSD speed these days; but the ARM stuff has got to help for running in reduced RAM/speed CPUs
<AlanBell> I might have to get my eldest a new computer running windows and office and publisher :(
<penguin42> :-(
<penguin42> why publisher?
<AlanBell> apparently she is about to get her school report which will ask her to use the same software at home as at school
<penguin42> yeuch
 * AlanBell will be blogging that bit of the report if it turns out to be the case
<DJones> AlanBell: Do they provide the Windows & Office suite for free?
<dwatkins> my concern with this is that not knowing Windows applications might be a disadvantage, even though understanding the principles behind word processing etc. is obviously more useful
<AlanBell> nope, and it seems student version of windows 8 and office is Â£170 on top of the laptop price
<dwatkins> there was a scheme in Berkshire a couple years ago where a child could get a laptop and a year's worth of 3G internet for free.
<AlanBell> so Â£499 for a random laptop with office home & student and windows 8 then on top of that it will need virus junk because it is a windows computer
<AlanBell> oh and publisher
<DJones> Thats pretty poor from the school
<AlanBell> which is another Â£100
<dwatkins> is there an online version?
<dwatkins> kinda like google docs
<penguin42> office365?
<AlanBell> dunno, that is the other sucky thing, I know nothing about this stuff
<AlanBell> anyhow, I will wait for the report
<penguin42> AlanBell: It would be an interesting task to make sure that capability/compatibility issues are filed against Libreoffice/etc - it's sometimes interesting to see what's still missing
<AlanBell> most homework these days consists of downloading pictures from the internet (with no attribution or consideration for content licensing, they don't teach that) and adding captions and text around them
<dwatkins> the kids will get a shock when they get to uni and all their work is checked for copying
<dwatkins> automatically
<AlanBell> yeah, it is totally bogus
<AlanBell> they are not allowed to use wikipedia (which I consider a perfectly valid starting point) but they can copy crap from any other random website without peer review
<dwatkins> lolwut
<dwatkins> that's completely topsy-turvy
<AlanBell> yeah, education has a bit of a problem with wikipedia, it is considered a bad source because they don't understand how it works
<dwatkins> I admit I'm not sure how articles are checked or what happens in terms of people defacing them.
<bigcalm> AlanBell: have you considered home schooling? ;)
<MartijnVdS> you use wikipedia to find proper sources, right? :)
<dwatkins> I do know that it tends to be fairly accurate, however.
<AlanBell> they get fixed within seconds
<MartijnVdS> they're at the bottom
<AlanBell> yeah, I know how to use wikipedia :)
<dwatkins> and as MartijnVdS says, sources are cited, as they should be in any homework/paper/thesis
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: time to educate some educators
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I am looking forward to blogging about the situation
<popey> Evening!
<AlanBell> but then I will probably have to just spend the Â£600
<AlanBell> and then spend it again for the other two \o/
<dwatkins> AlanBell: presumably they think that experience with MS Publisher would be to the kids' advantage.
<dwatkins> never used it myself, and I can use most word processors easily enough without spending an hour reading the documentation (apart from LaTeX perhaps)
<bigcalm> Good evening popey
<AlanBell> they might well do. I have never ever ever seen anyone use it since about publisher for windows 95
<popey> Nobody uses publisher outside education and church newsletters
<czajkowski> I know some people who home school, but honestly I think it's gonna do kids a disadvantage of not learning how to socialise at an early start
<dwatkins> indeed - I used some GEM-based publishing package in the early 1990s, havn't touched a similar application since. I suspect publishing houses either have their own, or use normal word processing apps.
<AlanBell> yeah, I am not home schooling
<popey> i dont think the kids at our school get told what to use at home
<popey> i know at least one kid uses a chromebook, so google docs
<popey> clare gets sent email from it
<dwatkins> much more sensible approach
<czajkowski> anyone on 13.04 can you please go to the login screen and click on shut down - does it actually shut down
<AlanBell> I was going to get my younger daughter a chromebook when they do the next ARM one
<dwatkins> use whatever software you have, so long as the end result is appropriate
<AlanBell> indeed
<popey> it would be like mandating the make and model of pen and paper they are told to use
<AlanBell> exactly
<ahayzen> popey, they have tried tht in some schools aswell ;)
<czajkowski> popey: ah see we had the pen and paper in primary school, especially for joined up writing to teach us
<dwatkins> the class below me complained they were told to get a specific graphical calculator, as they were quite expensive
<czajkowski> had to write within the blue lines and then go to the top and bottom red lines for some letters
<dwatkins> not sure what the end result was, mind
<Azelphur> hmm, Ekiga 4.0 doesn't seem to work too well, no matter what I do with it I get a "Transport error"
<popey> well, for my kids age, yes pencil/paper
<AlanBell> we did have to get a specific scientific calculator, but it was Â£7.95
<popey> but clare teaches 15 year olds
<czajkowski> hows the arm doing?
<popey> 1 week left!
<AlanBell> and they do specify a uniform supplier
<czajkowski> popey: \o/
<AlanBell> so schools can and do endorse specific businesses and require parents to spend money there
<popey> yeah, we have to get uniforms from a shop in reading
<czajkowski> hmmm wonder if i cant shut down as I've signed into guest ac
<czajkowski> this is baffling me today
<popey> "cant shut down" has been a bug for years on and off
<AlanBell> but it just irritates me a bit that my kids each have their own computers running lots of software and can do everything that I do in my daily job, but the school apparently wants me to throw that away and spend Â£1800 (when all three get there) on computers that do less.
<AlanBell> or have them all share one computer or something
<AlanBell> and fight over who gets to do homework on it at specific times, so that doesn't really work
<czajkowski> popey: ahh
<AlanBell> "doesn't suspend" is another irritating bug
<AlanBell> I really really really want there to be a non-negotiable suspend
<popey> windows "doesn't suspend" for me
<diplo> Evening all
<bigcalm> popey: I think it was when you retweeted me that my popularity exploded :) Amusing that even omgubuntu retweeted me as well
<bigcalm> Morning diplo
<dwatkins> suspend can be stopped by an application? wow
<popey> sweet!
<popey> sophie was doing ballet today, so I had a few hours afk which was nice
<bigcalm> Once I gave in and bought an ssd just for Ubuntu, 12.10 has been the best 'out of box' experience for me so far. Well done team :)
<popey> oh excellent
<popey> showed sophie how to add things to hers (and mine and mummys) calendar today
<popey> I expect lots of things to get added soon
<dwatkins> same here, my netbook flies along with an SSD in it, nice one :)
<ali1234> i have never seen any computer suspend reliably except for macs
<popey> wifeys mbp refused to suspend recently
<popey> known issue apparently
<popey> i think it's steam stopping windows suspending for me
<ali1234> phones seem to be able to do it
<popey> \o/ Ubuntu Phone can!
<ali1234> i find it funny that all the companies jumping on the "mobile" bandwagon put lots of effort into redesigning the UI but don't fix things like making suspend work
<popey> battery life on ubuntu phone is (surprisingly - hah) good!
<ali1234> yeeeaaaah i'll believe that when i see it
<popey> meh, I don't care
<diplo> popey: Running one, or just from info ?
<popey> I've seen it, that's good enough for my eyeballs
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> it's an android kernel, so hardly surprising âº
<bigcalm> Who has run off with my ps2 to usb adapter? I want to use my unicomp keyboard!
<popey> i dont think we've got application suspending nailed yet, that's "to do"
<BigRedS> ali1234: it's like the desktop. All the hard problems get ignored while the solutions to the easy ones are rewritten
<ali1234> BigRedS: yes, exactly
<BigRedS> And, just as New Thing is ready enough that the hard problems can be worked on, we need a New New Thing
<popey> oh I dunno, sound seems not to have been re-written for a while, since pulse came along
<popey> x badly needs replacing
<BigRedS> yeah, that's why we keep getting new DEs isn't it?
<BigRedS> gnome 2 didn't *need* replacing. It just needed finishing
<BigRedS> And now gnome 3 and Unity need finishing
<popey> gnome 2 didnt need replacing for some users
<BigRedS> which doesn't sound hugely like progress
<popey> not sure how well gnome 2 works on phones / tablets
<popey> and TVs
<ali1234> please stop calling it gnome 2
<ali1234> it's actually called gnome-panel
<ali1234> and it works on gnome 3
<BigRedS> yeah, so now we've new DEs that are as bad there as they are on the desktops? There's still a load of daft problems either in Unity or Gnome or in whatever underlying thing they share
<BigRedS> like NetworkManager, as I keep ranting about :)
<popey> you know what people mean when they say "gnome 2"
<ali1234> what's wrong with NM? i love it
<popey> "the two panel interface which people know when someone says gnome 2"
<popey> +1 on NM
<ali1234> it does everything and it just works
<popey> not perfect but good
<ali1234> VPNs, connection sharing...
<popey> not good for phones
 * AlanBell hugs gnome shell
<ali1234> all that stuff was a right pain before
<BigRedS> I think if I could tell it that I only wanted it to ever do anything with my WiFi interface it'd be okay
<BigRedS> but it keeps breaking other things
<ali1234> you can tell it that
<BigRedS> no you can't
<ali1234> you can specify to ignore interfaces
<ali1234> and it will
<BigRedS> you can tell it which devices to not interfere with, but not which ones to interfere with
<AlanBell> Unity might work kind of well on a phone where you don't want lots of applications running
<AlanBell> or lot of windows of one application
<ali1234> why is that a prblem though? just tell it about all of your devices
<BigRedS> my last problem was with virt-manager which didn't seem to have a predictable mac for its bridge
<AlanBell> dunno if gnome-shell is supposed to work on mobile devices
<ali1234> ah yes, if you have randomly changing macs NM does not work well at all
<popey> moving from WWAN to LAN and back seamlessly doesn't work either
<ali1234> how could it?
<BigRedS> I've also never worked out how to make it stop overwriting resolvconf changes. I want the same search domains whatever network I'm on, but it always switces back
<popey> which i think is one reason why connman exists, and the personality causes flimflam to exist
<BigRedS> how could it work with randomly changing macs? I want to give it a list of macs that it should care about and have it ignore the rest
<ali1234> no i mean how could it seamlessly switch from WWAN to LAN?
<BigRedS> I only ever use it to connect to a wifi network, I don't want it pissing around with anything else, especially since when I do have anything else it's not something I've done in nm
<BigRedS> oh, good
<ali1234> that's going to cause all your connections to drop no matter what
<diplo> Only issue I have with NM is when I'm using a vpn, the routing vpn gateway switch doesn't work
<popey> \o/ hot baguettes & pate for tea
<bigcalm> Nom
 * AlanBell has irish brown bread with marmalade on it for tea
 * AlanBell is thinking about not using a CMS for exceptionalemails.com
<AlanBell> writing the UI in python and html
<AlanBell> and writing my own paypal subscription integration later
<BigRedS> you're all about reinventing the wheel :)
<BigRedS> but, yeah, a CMS does seem like massive overkill just to get user auth
<popey> i wouldn't do paypal if I were you
<AlanBell> well yeah but it is so much easier!
<popey> I'd use stripe, ribbon or gumroad
<AlanBell> doing the smtpd in python was much easier than using exim
<daubers> AlanBell: Just use django? it has inbuilt user auth stuffs too
<AlanBell> django is a possibility
<AlanBell> popey: thanks for those suggestions, stripe looks good
<AlanBell> never heard of any of them before
<ali1234> use bitcoins
<AlanBell> yeah, happy to accept bitcoin
<ali1234> use django if you don't want to use a cms
<ali1234> definitely don't use drupal since it gives you all the hassles of a cms with none of the features
<AlanBell> initially it is going to be a free service for a beta period, but I want to design in chargable subscriptions for later
<bigcalm> AlanBell: what about security of emails being stored on the server?
<AlanBell> they are pretty secure
<AlanBell> and I have various purging options
<AlanBell> so I can drop the body from the database as soon as it arrives for example, just search it for the regex the user wants to search for, like must not contain "failed" and if it is OK, drop the body
<AlanBell> if it is a failure, notify and keep the body
<BigRedS> mail_location = /dev/null/%d/%u
<AlanBell> or people can choose to keep all the emails in full if they want
<AlanBell> I will be advising people not to send emails with their IP address and passwords and file names and to generally think about what they are sending
<AlanBell> !info python-django
<lubotu3> python-django (source: python-django): High-level Python web development framework. In component main, is optional. Version 1.4.1-2ubuntu0.2 (quantal), package size 5202 kB, installed size 41258 kB
 * AlanBell ponders versions of things
<AlanBell> 1.6 is the new hotness, we have 1.3 in precise, 1.4.1 in quantal and 1.4.3 in raring
<BigRedS> Do you need anything in 1.6 that's not in 1.3?
<AlanBell> well 1.3 is the flat layout and 1.4+ isn't
<AlanBell> it creates a subdirectory under manage.py
 * AlanBell decides to develop on raring
<zleap> ah 13.04
<zleap> the one we wanted to call rampent rabbit
<AlanBell> yeah, that one
<AlanBell> django seems about right, I haven't done a django project from scratch before, just patched existing ones
<AlanBell> it is fairly raw to the database which is what I need
<ali1234> django isn't much more than an ORM and MVC templates framework
<AlanBell> yeah, I disliked it a lot when working on summit and loco directory but I like it for this
<AlanBell> for those things I really didn't want to give a toss about schema changes, it made me too aware of the database for a CMS application
<AlanBell> django is nice because I can write directly to the database from other applications without being too scared about doing so
<ali1234> you dont need to though: there's no reason not to use django orm from a command line app
<ali1234> and it makes writing command line admin scripts really easy
<bigcalm> Is it possible to specify which workspace and monitor an app should appear on when loaded?
<bigcalm> popey or AlanBell ^^ ?
<redtape-renegade> Apparently Ubuntu doesn't update it's tweet button [0] on the Ubuntu for Android homepage | http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android | with a simple search .. you can see many have tweeted the message :  https://twitter.com/search?q=%23U4A&src=typd
<redtape-renegade> #U4A -1
<redtape-renegade> How do I file a bug for that ?
<Laney> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website
<redtape-renegade> opening....
<AlanBell> ali1234: ooh, interesting point, I probably should do that
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I have no idea
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ta
<bigcalm> Multimedia keyboard, can I tie the music controls to Spotify? :)
<ali1234> bigcalm: you can with unity webapps and experimental spotify web interface, if that's still a thing
<ali1234> you might have to program it all yourself though
<mgdm> bigcalm: spotify speaks dbus, so I'm sure it's possible
<mgdm> I've thought about it but not had enough round tuits yet
<redtape-renegade> Bug #1128460
<lubotu3> bug 1128460 in Ubuntu Website "Tweet Button Notifier not showing correct number of Tweets for http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1128460
<ali1234> hmm regarding the aaron seigo post, do we know that ubuntu phone actually uses QML for the unity parts?
<ali1234> it could be just the developer API, with unity using something else
<ali1234> where smething else == libnux on libhybris/surface flinger
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-10
<mapps> hey
<daftykins> \o
<popey> pip pip
<daftykins> good flight sir?
<popey> yeah. need to sleep now
<daftykins> :>
<MooDoo> morning all
<jussi> cup of tea someone?
<jussi> please?
<MooDoo> yes please
<jussi> MooDoo: I wasnt offering, I was begging! :P
<MooDoo> pah!
<jussi> toast with cheese and vegemite, breakfaast of champions :D
<MartijnVdS> morning all
<MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> my GPS + NTP raspberry pi thingy works \o/
<MooDoo> yay, i didn't even play with my Pi at the weekend, it's still in it's box :S
<MartijnVdS> o127.127.20.0    .GPS.            0 l    2    8  377    0.000    0.001   0.001
<MartijnVdS> now I have to order a second Pi to run collectd all over my network (printer, router, NTP server, ...)
<DJones> jussi: Vegemite? Have you moved to Australia
<jussi> DJones: I AM an aussie...
<jussi> a lucky one to have vegemite here in finland :D
<DJones> Heh, I've two jars in the cupboard, trouble is there's only me that eats it at home, jars last forever
<popey> clearly not putting enough on your toast â»
<jussi> DJones: i have similar issues... :D
<DJones> :)
<popey> I made some bread rolls last night.. yeast was off so they're somewhat rock-like
<jussi> mind you, it does last forever..
<jussi> DJones: one thing though - learn to use it as a salt replacement in soups...
<jussi> and other savoury dishes
<jussi> works really well
<DJones> Thats an interesting idea
<DJones> I can understand it though
<popey> also, put on roast potatoes
<DJones> popey: Before or after cooking
<jussi> or in mashed pumpkin :D
<DJones> eww, don't like pumpkin
<popey> I'm sure these marmite recipes will work with vegemite too -> http://tinyurl.com/ppwfwkn
<popey> (I have that book)
<jussi> popey: looks good
<popey> there is also a little book linked on that page which is neat
<DJones> INteresting idea, might try that
<popey> got it as a stocking filler
<TheOpenSourcerer> Vegemite is no where near as strong as Marmite.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We had some mates who went back to Aus and left us a jar. Wasn't imporessed at all. You need to put *LOADS* on a bit of toast.
<SuperMatt> have we discussed debian going systemd yet?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: yes, last night :)
<SuperMatt> what did everyone think?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh - Who won?
<popey> not exactly clear yet â»
<popey> AlanBell: did you mention something about your keyboard going US layout ?
<SuperMatt> I'm still against binary logs!
<popey> mine has done it
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: That was me I think.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did it a few weeks ago.
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: I still haven't seen convincing arguments to switch, other than the "IT'S BETTAR!!!!111" fanboy brigade
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> popey: Mine did it a few weeks ago as well
<popey> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164010
<popey> *boggle*
<popey> pc with built in projector
<MartijnVdS> won't that become very hot very fast?
<popey> probably a little LED jobbie, so not so much
<MartijnVdS> or have there been improvements in projector land? :)
<popey> nice if you want a single box integrated media pc and display
<MartijnVdS> it does look cool
<czajkowski> aloha
<jussi> popey: looks nice for a meeting room solution
<ali1234> the epson projectors i used to work with had built in PCs
<AlanBell> popey: yeah, it did flip to US layout a bit, but an update/reboot fixed it, I also lost chromium theme for a bit at the same time
<AlanBell> and yeah, that is an interesting little PC/projector, not sure I want one, but I can see that it is potentially useful
<ali1234> http://img.publish.it168.com/2004/0115/images/116583.jpg
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's  *huge* beast compared to that new one though
<ali1234> yes it is
<ali1234> they were damn heavy
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Clean Out Your Computer Day! :-D
 * MartijnVdS runs some rm -rf commands for JamesTait 
<ali1234> they were incredibly bright though
<JamesTait> Thanks, MartijnVdS. :)
<ali1234> also they cost like Â£20000
<JamesTait> Wait, where did all my code go?
<ali1234> just a replacement lamp cost more than the new thing
 * JamesTait hugs launchpad
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> morning bashrc
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: BOFH style -- "Well, let's see, you have 4 Meg available."
<JamesTait> :D
<MartijnVdS> Question from someone I know in the UK: "Anyone with car insurance in the UK... What's an average price? I think in getting hosed because of my US drivers license."
<shauno> I don't have insurance in the UK, but .. I expect they are.  and probably should be.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: still, there's "a bit more" and "twice as much"
<shauno> maybe, maybe not.  worth noting that inexperienced american drivers are dangerous.  every single guest I've had from the states who's rented a car has been side-swiped because they looked the wrong way before pulling forward
<shauno> so they genuinely are a high-risk for insurers
<MartijnVdS> shauno: she's lived there for several years now
<shauno> then they shouldn't be on a US licence, that's only kosher for the first year
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea then
<shauno> that's going to be the big catch - if they're on a US licence, they'll be treated as a visitor because they shouldn't be using it if they're resident
<shauno> of course, I'll defer to anyone who can actually answer your question, just .. things I learnt from marrying a yank ;)
<directhex> yeah, you need a local license
<shauno> http://gov.uk/driving-nongb-licence is fairly straight-forward
<MartijnVdS> thanks :) I'll pass the knowledge on
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I've paid Â£450 for car insurance, but now I'm older it seems to be about Â£250 a year.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: wow.. I'm on â¬220-ish
 * MartijnVdS must be very old :(
<dwatkins> nah, you don't live in an expensive country ;)
<dwatkins> I'm also in a city, I park my car at the side of the road as I have no garage etc.
<jussi> I paid ~1500â¬ when I was in ireland... even with full 70% discount
<jussi> crazy expensive there
<dwatkins> What did you drive, jussi - a Ferrari? ;)
<jussi> dwatkins: a polo!
 * dwatkins has a 1998 Peugeot 306 (diesel)
<dwatkins> wow, jussi - that's insane
<jussi> yep
 * MartijnVdS has a '02 Smart
<directhex> a polo is a high risk car
<shauno> just asked the chap next to me, e540/yr including his wife who's a new driver
<dwatkins> how come a Polo is more high risk than a Peugeot 306?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: the type of drivers it attracts
<directhex> dwatkins, polo is popular amongst bad drivers
<shauno> and no-one wants to steal a french car ;)
<directhex> it's not about your car, it's about the driver - but some cars are driven by different types of driver than others
<dwatkins> I thought that was BMWs ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Audis
<directhex> dwatkins, polo is a new learner car
<dwatkins> Don't get me started on insanely tall/large cars being used by people who could just as effectively have a mini to take the kids to school in ;)
<directhex> stats show polos have more accidents than other comparable cars, as a result
<directhex> see also corsa @ 500
<directhex> &
<dwatkins> I was also thinking of rht Ford Fiesta...
<dwatkins> *the
<directhex> bsm use fiat 500 now
<popey> dwatkins: i take my kids to school in a V70, should I have a smaller car?
<dwatkins> popey: Volvos are large for a reason, that's fine.
<popey> missed point I think â»
<dwatkins> also, a different kind of large
<popey> i use my volvo because it's my only car
<popey> I'm not about to replace my large car with a small car
<directhex> is the v70 the SUV they advertised on the basis of product placement in twilight?
<popey> because then I can't fit suitcases in it when we go on holiday
<popey> or I can't fit xmas tree in it, or other crap I take to the dump
<dwatkins> I'm thinking of the SUV-style cars which seem to be big just so people can look over the traffic, and are normally spotless.
<brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
<popey> same deal
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<popey> I'd love an SUV if I had the money for fuel
<popey> because it's comfy, nice ride height for safe driving.. fit luggage in.. etc
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<directhex> i have a personal rule - "new car gets better mileage than old car"
<dwatkins> yeah, that's part of my problem with them, popey - also, that I can't see over/through them when I'm driving behind, and that as a cyclist, I suspect they can't see me so easily.
<dwatkins> as in I have issues with the amount of fuel they use, being so large.
<shauno> I still <3 minis.  I don't worry so much about not being able to fit suitcases in them, they can't fly far enough
<popey> right
<brobostigon> even if the new car is a mclaren p1, a hybrid, and a supercar. lol.
<popey> but your argument was "that person should have a different car because of the one use case I've seen them use it for"
<popey> which is misguided, people use cars for different things (non shocker)
<dwatkins> fair enough, I'm thinking of the kinds of people who have a "Chelsea tractor" (i.e. 4x4) and only use it to take the kids to school, not as an actual 4x4.
<popey> right, but again you're assuming
<popey> people do that a lot.
<dwatkins> true, it's also annoying not being able to see through them, much like with vans.
<dwatkins> I just can't see a reason for having an SUV, I guess.
<popey> kids asked for a pocket minecraft server
<shauno> you haven't seen irish roads, then
<popey> didnt realise such a thing existed
<dwatkins> When I was little, we had a Volvo 140, it was plenty big enough to take the 5 of us on holiday (tents and all) and I suspect it has less room than an SUV.
<brobostigon> yes, PE can run in server mode.
<popey> when I was little we had a hoop and stick
<popey> etc
<popey> (is what you sound like)
<dwatkins> shauno: I've driven from Dublin to Limerick, if someone lived out on the West coast, I'm sure an SUV would be warranted.
<dwatkins> well, a 4x4
<brobostigon> i had maccano popey
<dwatkins> popey: haha
<shauno> dwatkins: I can see the west coast from my window ;)
<popey> I can see grey sky from mine
<dwatkins> lovely, shauno - I stayed in a place with a huge window, you could see a fantastic valley
<dwatkins> I can see the Edinburgh bypass.
<brobostigon> i saw a snow storm on my MC server the other day, didnt know it could do that.
<popey> pocket minecraft server seems to build its own php
<dwatkins> brobostigon: have you seen the game "Banished" which is due out on the 18th? That looks ace.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i havent, no.
<brobostigon> popey: i do know pocketmine, a Mc pe server built in php.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: whats the webpage?
<brobostigon> windows only, oh well,
<dwatkins> brobostigon: http://www.shiningrocksoftware.com/
<dwatkins> I think there will be a Linux version eventually
<TheOpenSourcerer> I had those two plastic balls on strings that you clacked together and broke your wrists with. They were great!
<dwatkins> So, what do people use such big cars for generally?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a V70
<dwatkins> That doesn't look so big, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/1st_Volvo_V70.jpg
<TheOpenSourcerer> I use it to drive myself places (like the office). My wife uses it once or twice a year to take the kids camping.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's one of the biggest estates you can get.
<dwatkins> I'm referring to very tall cars like this: http://www.newcarwallpaper.com/BMW_SUV_X5_3423.html
<dwatkins> I'm pretty sure I can see through a V70 if I'm behind it in traffic, but I can't see through a BMW SUV.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Personally I have no need for a 4x4 and I don't really like them much. Pig ugly, drink fuel, and tend to kill pedestrians more then normal cars.
<dwatkins> I don't know about the accident figures, but the rest of your comment sums-up how I feel about SUVs in general.
<TheOpenSourcerer> If I lived where I needed one then I'd have one, but I don't.
<dwatkins> yeah, if I lived up in the Pentlands, I'd probably have a RAV4 or something, as I'd need it. Most of the SUVs which I see around Edinburgh don't have a speck of dirt on them. Granted, as popey points-out, I'm making assumptions here.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have loads in Farnham. Mostly driven by wives doing the school run it seems to me.
<dwatkins> I suspect that's where the name 'Chelsea Tractor' comes from, that scenario.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes it is.
<popey> friend of mine drops kids off in one, but thats their only car
<popey> he works in london
<popey> so goes on the train
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> popey: you happy to be back in the real timezone?
<popey> ya!
<dwatkins> I cycle when I can, but I know I'm lucky that it's even an option for me.
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: a V70 would be my car of choice when I have slightly more money. As it is, we drive a little BMW 116
<popey> i walk â»
<popey> down ths stairs
<TheOpenSourcerer> The V70 is a decent car but mine does drink petrol... 2.4l Turbo Petrol. :-(
<MooDoo> hello again all
<jussi> popey: Liar! you fall, like the emergency caller in "The IT crowd" emergency number episode :D
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: the 2.4 diesel is an excellent engine
<MooDoo> jussi: "but i'm disabled" ;)
 * jussi offers MooDoo a cup of tea
 * MooDoo takes it with thanks
<TheOpenSourcerer> jussi: I'm sure it is. But we actually don't do that many miles - most journeys are local and short. I heard that diesels don't like that kind of use profile very much.
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: true that - most of our journeys are >40km so I would really like to own a diesel...
<dwatkins> I assume diesel is still cheaper per mile, despite being slightly more expensive per litre than petrol now.
<dwatkins> [for a given size of car, say a Peugeot 306 petrol vs diesel]
<jussi> dwatkins: its actually about 10 -15 euro cents cheaper per litre here
<jussi> dwatkins: but yes, you are correct
<dwatkins> as it was when I bought this car, which runs on diesel.
<dwatkins> I get about 550 miles out of a tank, 15p a mile, iirc.
<davmor2> dwatkins: it's more expensive because it is used most
<foobarry> i just lost my 50+ open chrome tabs. is there a way to recover them?
<foobarry>  except going through my history
<davmor2> dwatkins: Lorries 250litres per tank normally 2 tanks, Vans 80-120 litres, Landrover/jaguar 50+ litres and then a lot of normal cars moved over to diesel when people realised it was cheaper at which point the price went rocketing
<MooDoo> foobarry: don't think there is to be honest, someone said on a site I have found (on one occasion) that on opening a new tab, at the bottom, there's the option to reopen recently closed tabs and in this list has been something like "17 tabs" i.e. all those that were open previously. However, this wasn't in the list the last time.
<foobarry> almost feels like i lost data
<MooDoo> :(
<MooDoo> cry for 10 mins then move on lol
<foobarry> i only really reboot when i have to move desks
<jussi> foobarry: you dont have the thing MooDoo mentions ?
<foobarry> no
<foobarry> said there was a problem siginng into my profile
<foobarry> so i restarted and the tabs went away
<foobarry> so i cired
<foobarry> cried
<foobarry> i'm moving on
<MooDoo> :)
<jussi> sigh... I went to the shop this morning ad forgot to buy yeast... no bread for me :(
<dwatkins> davmor2: makes sense, I guess
<popey> the rolls i made last night are like rocks
<popey> my yeast was out of date
<jussi> popey: doh.
<popey> yeah
<popey> will make some more later
<jussi> (PUN INTENDED)
<popey> oh
<jussi> hehe
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I have an episode of Fully Charged to watch (Robert Llewellyn's trip in an electric car from London to Edinburgh)
<jussi> I so dont feel like going out - its drizzly, about +2 and generally slushy. not fun
<MooDoo> popey: jussi you guys kneed to give up the jokes.
<jussi> MooDoo: you knead to learn to spell :P
<jussi> bwahahahah
<MooDoo> jussi: rats thought I'd cracked that one lol
<foobarry> huzzah, there was a bad chrome running silently
<MooDoo> the yolks on me
<popey> I'm not going to rise to these jokes.
<foobarry> killed it and my tabs came back
<jussi> foobarry: so much for moving on...
<jussi> popey: your jokes are putting a damper on my system...
<jussi> (have to know somehting about aussie bread for that one...)
<MooDoo> jussi: at least they aren't fish jokes, they cod go on for hours and you'd end up battering me ;)
<jussi> MooDoo: oh crumbs...
<jussi> :D
<MooDoo> you mullet over
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I think I'm going to tuna out for a bit..
<foobarry> you guys still carping on?
<MooDoo> foobarry: we are smiling, breaming from ear to ear
<foobarry> i keep herring fish jokes
<foobarry> i've haddock up to here
 * foobarry goes to lunch
<diddledan> are you going to perch all my jokes?
<diddledan> :-p
<MooDoo> cripes i'm going to become a monk[fish] to get away from all this
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: get trout of here!
<MooDoo> on a serious note can someone code fishsay instead of cowsay :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: pollocks! ;)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS:!
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: family friendly
<jussi> Now you are all starting to annoy me, Im getting all puffed up about this!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yes, it's a very good fish for a family meal :)
<diddledan> lol
<MooDoo> i'm allergic to fish lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: cowsay has templates, you should be able to code one or more fish into it
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: as long as you know how to ascii-art
<MooDoo> lol awesome
<jussi> MooDoo: is that what they call it now? :P :P
<MooDoo> http://www.geocities.com/spunk1111/aquatic.htm
<MooDoo> o/
<diddledan> why hasn't that geocity been deleted yet?
<diddledan> I thought geocities disappeared into the bitbucket in the sky years ago
<davmor2> man now I want to watch Beverley hills cop damn you Absolute 80's for puting AxelF on
<jussi> diddledan: geocities wil never die............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<brobostigon> any ideas, about where to start concerning writing the javascript for my pebble, to pull xml data from bleb.org, please.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: that was angelfire
<hazrpg> \o
<MooDoo> do we ever have ubuntu uk meetings any more?
<popey> nope
<MooDoo> fair enough :)
<hazrpg> how come?
<foobarry> shamne on me for thinking the salami and mozzarrella foccacia from sainsburys would taste of salami, mozzarrella, or foccaccia
<jussi> MooDoo: I thought you guys had that once a year train thing? :P
<MooDoo> hazrpg: they must not be needed any more as we're a well oiled loco
<MooDoo> jussi: real ale train :) I've never been on that one.
<MooDoo> jussi: that's a popey et al thing
<jussi> MooDoo: but I thought "popey et al" == uk loco ? :D
<popey> well, anyone can setup a meeting
<MooDoo> agreed, just curious as to why they weren't done any more, but if they aren't needed that would explain it :D
<popey> ask AlanBell â»
<popey> he is our fearless leader
<MooDoo> in the grand scheme of things, I really do't think it's that important ;) lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: what? Fearlessness or leadership? :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: asking AlanBell about meetings lol
<popey> Well, you asked, I wanted to make sure you got an accurate answer.
<jussi> AlanBell: is taking over the world... :P
<MooDoo> popey: thank you sir ;)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: did you see this from yesterday? https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/432613519381762048/photo/1
<davmor2> bigcalm: I did I was trying to figure out if that was the big version or not?
<bigcalm> davmor2: it cost a little under 150 quid
<bigcalm> I didn't see a bigger version in the LEGO shop in Liverpool
<bigcalm> Cheaper to buy in the LEGO shop than from Amazon. Most strange
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.lego.com/en-gb/starwars/products/exclusives/10225r2-d2 this one then
<AlanBell> MooDoo: meetings kind of fizzled out a while back, there were several where I was about the only person there, with an absence of much to discuss :)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: thanks, sounds like they are not needed then :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think that is the next model I'll be getting as I have the 2 ships I love :)  Although if I find the big millennium Falcon I might have to buy that :)
<AlanBell> well if there is something to discuss, and that is a useful way to do it then yay
<davmor2> bigcalm: the super star destroyer is tempting but it is huge as is the deathstar
<MooDoo> AlanBell: I don't think there ever is unless we're going to do something for the big jam :d
<hazrpg> MooDoo: fair enough
<bigcalm> davmor2: I could have bought the SSD, but it isn't much to look at
<MooDoo> hazrpg: we'll have secret meetings, shhhh don't tell AlanBell  ;)
<ali1234> i can't see a smaller version of the r2d2 kit... unless you're thinking of the original mindstorms from 1999
<davmor2> bigcalm: more important where the hell would you put it
<bigcalm> davmor2: I still intend to put up shelves in my office
<davmor2> bigcalm: look at the dimensions of the SSD and you'll understand :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: Measures nearly 50 inches (124.5 cm) long and weighs nearly 8 pounds (3.5kg)!
<ali1234> 3152 pieces and every single one is grey
<davmor2> bigcalm: that is a huge shelf
<davmor2> ali1234: you'll be surprised
<ali1234> i won't, cos i can't afford that thing
<davmor2> ali1234: haha
<ali1234> and if i had Â£350 to spend on lego i'd get the technic mobile crane mk2
<bigcalm> Why can't I see the SSD on that site?
<bigcalm> Ah, that's my wish list repopulated on Amazon
<AlanBell> MooDoo: well actually, we might do something for the global jam
<ali1234> directhex: why is sdrsharp so slow in mono?
<directhex> no idea. what's sdrsharp?
<ali1234> a software defined radio written in c#
<ali1234> http://sdrsharp.com/
<shauno> aka ronseal ;)
<ali1234> anyway it's unusably slow with mono no matter how fast your computer is
<ali1234> works fine on windows, apparently
<jussi> youtube adds have to be some of the biggest moodkillers ever :/
<MartijnVdS> youtube has ads?
<jussi> yes...
<jussi> evil ones that play before the video
<MartijnVdS> not with my adblocker  ;)
<jussi> do shre more info?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: THe "Adblock" extension (not "Adblock plus", just"Adblock") in Chrome
<MartijnVdS> jussi: no more ads :)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: AdBlock ?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/adblock/gighmmpiobklfepjocnamgkkbiglidom
<MartijnVdS> love that URL 8-)
<jussi> I think I have to have this, simply because of the video used in the youtube illustration... :D
<Neptunia> Hi Jussi and everyone, you can see your installed extension list on :
<Neptunia> chrome://extensions/
<directhex> bam.
<directhex> BAM.
<directhex> BAM!
<directhex> not enough people read ubuntu-devel-announce
<jussi> directhex: ?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ?
<ali1234> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2014-February/001079.html
<AlanBell> nice one directhex
 * hazrpg test
<hazrpg> test2
<hazrpg> hmmz :/
<MooDoo> directhex: give me a steam key ;)
<MooDoo> directhex: my key is I AMDI RECT HEX ;)
<directhex> NO >8\/
<MooDoo> directhex: I loved the gall of some people after reading your post lol
 * popey expecs directhex will get way more now, as people think they're developers when they aren't
<MartijnVdS> "But I'm a member1"
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I should get one as I'm a potential member when I get my butt in gear
<Laney> no
<Laney> you have to be a developer, not a member
<MooDoo> Laney: we're teasing
<Laney> ha
<MooDoo> sheesh ;)
<MooDoo> 10 print "I love ubuntu"  20 goto 10   does this count Laney ?
<Laney> get back to your free lwn subscription
<MooDoo> snigger :D
<hazrpg> ping
<popey> hazrpg: pong
<MartijnVdS> *boing*
<hazrpg> thanks :)
<hazrpg> seems colours does work afterall (irssi scripts)
<MartijnVdS> of course they do :)
<hazrpg> which do you use?
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: uhh
<MartijnVdS> "nickcolor.pl"
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: does that also right-align nicks?
<hazrpg> cos that's the one I'm using
<MartijnVdS> no, that's just a theme setting isn't it?
 * popey uses nickcolor too
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: Ah! *strambles theme file*
<hazrpg> fixed :D
<hazrpg> (I think)
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<hazrpg> *\o/*
<foobarry> everyone is red today in this chan
<foobarry> using nickcolour
<shauno> well that seems counterproductive
<dwatkins> I have red, green and cyan with nick_color.pl
<dwatkins> Not sure I specifically saved anyone with certain colours, but I've been using it a while.
<daftykins> dwatkins: what's annoying is when it colours two people the same though due to their nick length
<shauno> annoying is having a meeting right behind you for 6 hours running when you've had a fun idea to build in minecraft :(
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Damn work getting in the way
<shauno> someone else's work getting in the way!
<daftykins> XD
<knightwise> hey everyone
<daftykins> knightwise: heyup
<gebbione> hi all, my home connectivity does not seem so great with ssh connections
<gebbione> is there anything i can do to avoid getting disconnected?
<gebbione> some sort of keep alive under the hood stuff?
<daftykins> gebbione: yes, i know PuTTY has a keep alive option, perhaps there's a switch for it if you're going Linux to Linux
<gebbione> i am using mac and ubuntu
<gebbione> on the mac at work connections dont drop so fast
<gebbione> maybe it is a better connectivity
<daftykins> no :P
<daftykins> what are you connecting between where you're seeing issues?
<gebbione> also not using putty
<daftykins> so you're SSH'ing home?
<daftykins> yeah i know, that was an example
<gebbione> i just ssh to a server
<gebbione> something in germany in this casa
<gebbione> case
<daftykins> ok so over the internet to a VPS/dedi server somewhere?
<gebbione> yes, dedicated
<daftykins> ok here we go, so from the man pages of SSH
<daftykins> http://www.linuxmanpages.com/man1/ssh.1.php
<daftykins> -o TCPKeepAlive
<daftykins> which is explained more here: http://www.manpagez.com/man/5/ssh_config/
<daftykins> so add that option to your SSH command and see how you get on
<gebbione> thanks i ll try
<gebbione> actually that options is set to yes by default
<daftykins> it did seem to suggest that, but the wording wasn't very good
<daftykins> there are some variables to change as well though
<daftykins> are you sure it isn't more down to your home internet connection being unreliable?
<foobarry> whats the easiesy way to find a file on my machine made on 7 may 2012 ?
<gebbione> well i m always connected on irc :)
<gebbione> if i start uploading or downloading a lot then it becomes unstabler
<daftykins> gebbione: that doesn't mean a thing, my connection drops briefly, i see skype reconnect but my IRC sessions stay alive
<ali1234> irony ^
<ali1234> gebbione: ssh can be quite annoying on a flaky connection and even if you enable the keepalive it won't always notice the connection went down
<ali1234> i use ServerAliveCountMax 3 ServerAliveInterval 30 in ~/.ssh/config
<ali1234> and autossh -M 0
<ali1234> then when the ssh connection dies it gets restarted after at most 90 seconds
<gebbione> thanks ali1234 for the details
<gebbione> is ~/.ssh/config
<gebbione> autoloaded by ssh?
<ali1234> yes
<DJones> Woooot...I've won the Yahoo Mail Lottery....All I have to do is open the attachment in .doc format to find out more details
<diddledan> DJones: open it in google drive
<DJones> I might have considered opening it if it'd been sent from a yahoo account, rather than a gmail account
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> fail!
<DJones> I wonder whether libreoffice would be affected if there was a virus in it
<diddledan> most probably not if you opened it in loonicks
<diddledan> thems 1337 h4xx0r5 don't know about the secret backdoor reading of .docx files from windows in "not windows"
<DJones> Its not even a virus
<diddledan> \o/
<DJones> http://www.privatepaste.com/9bd5a8686e
 * daftykins claims DJones' winnings
 * DJones watches as a scammer empties daftykins bank account
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> any luck with currys/dixons btw?
<DJones> Dad decided not to bother doing anything
<daftykins> fair enough
<diddledan> ooh, it's Microsoft Yahoo Anniversary award
<diddledan> oh that's reassuring: "THIS IS PART OF OUR PRECAUTIONARY MEASURE TO AVOID DOUBLE CLAIMING AND UNWARRANTED ABUSE OF THIS PROGRAM BY SOME UNSCRUPULOUS ELEMENTS."
<diddledan> I'm glad they don't put up with unscrupulous elements
<daftykins> me too
<daftykins> where would we be if they did?
<diddledan> lol " YAHOO and MICRO SOFT collects all the email addresses of the people that are active online" <-- all teh peopled
<diddledan> peoples*
<DJones> Ah well, I've done the decent thing and reported the scammer to Google
<DJones> On the basis that it was using their email service, may as well let them take the account down
<diddledan> you mean you don't want the meelion pounds?
<DJones> :)
<diddledan> my work laptop's battery must be knackered
<diddledan> it holds it's charge for a full 3 minutes before the OS forces a shutdown (Windows)
<ali1234> DJones: i can't help wondering why they put that address on there
<ali1234> wait, i know why... it's because it's the post office
<ali1234> and that's why i recognise the address
<diddledan> ali1234: 124 stockport road?
<ali1234> yes
<diddledan> lol, top 10 results for the address are all about scams
<DJones> I wonder how many people actually fall for a scam like that in this day and age
<ali1234> is there a OS X cross compiler like mingw?
<diddledan> WHEEEE
<diddledan> ali1234: compile for osx on linux?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> without having to have a mac
<diddledan> I'm not sure that there is
<ali1234> well, that sucks
<diddledan> you might get some joy with the gnustep stuff
<ali1234> i only need to build SDL + OpenGL apps
<diddledan> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2786240/how-to-compile-intel-mac-binaries-on-linux
<diddledan> donno how useful that is
<diddledan> this looks like it might be helpful, ali1234 https://github.com/tatsh/xchain
<ali1234> that looks massively painful
<diddledan> very
<diddledan> completely hands-on
<ali1234> does iOS though
<diddledan> ooh, I didn't notice that
<diddledan> I did read years ago what the state of play was regarding getting apple patches submitted to gcc - are they still trying or have apple just decided to go their own way and ignore the gcc project?
<ali1234> they wrote llvm
<diddledan> oh that's apple?
<diddledan> I knew they were moving across to llvm
<diddledan> I didn't know they wrote it
<diddledan> I guess they want llvm to allow  a single binary across all platforms with a JIT that does platform-specifics?
<ali1234> maybe
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-11
<diddledan> mornign
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS prepares for another day of writing tests
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: enjoy
<MartijnVdS> (of the unit kind)
<MooDoo> close encounters of the test kind
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQzI3sz83FY
<MooDoo> do do do do do :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: 4d3, 4e3, 4c3, 4c2, 4g2?
<diddledan> that's weird notation
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it's tvtropes notation :)
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> I was gonna suggest modplug
<MartijnVdS> welcome to the timesink ;)
<diddledan> I like that it didn't take you long to figure out the notes involved
<diddledan> I like the bit where they go "do do do HONK HONK"
<MooDoo> lol you guys :D
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mWKgaZQLSw
<diddledan> I wasn't aware they'd made a series of monsters vs aliens
<diddledan> this is a better copy of the same vid - bit longer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1eGHeuyeQQ
<diddledan> funny movie that
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo how's tricks?
<diplo> Not bad ta
<diplo> Sorry, had phones and 4 msn messages pop up as I logged in
<diplo> Power failure at headoffice, taken down everything
<diplo> Yourself MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> diplo: powers fine ;) :p
<diplo> heh
<MooDoo> but I know what that's like...booo
<diplo> Got a VM saying unknown ( in accessible )
<diplo> :/ - this is going to be fun
<MooDoo> diplo: oh they are the best
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning DJones
<DJones> Hey MooDoo
<MooDoo> hows it going DJones ?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Get Out Your Guitar Day! \m/
<DJones> Not bad, had to dodge round a major car crash on the way to  work, 4 police cars, a couple of ambulances & 3 fire engines arriving as I went past
<MooDoo> JamesTait: Does my guitar hero one count?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, definitely!
<DJones> Yay its supposed to snow today & overnight
<JamesTait> It's absolutely tipping it down here now.
<DJones> Dry at the minute, but supposed to get wetter & colder, turning to snow with 5-10 cm predicted
<dogmatic69_> snow \o/
<DJones> With that in mind, it'll probably be a heatwave
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dogmatic69_> sup bigcalm
<bigcalm> Snow, but then it's down
<DJones> I like this website http://uk.hardware.info/productgroup/18/laptopstablets Looks good for chosing laptops based on detailed spec's
<bigcalm> Outside temp is 1.8C. Nothing is sticking, it's just horribly wet
<bigcalm> Tell a lie, it's starting to stick to my rather frozen car
<bigcalm> Are you surviving in TF4?
<MartijnVdS> Team Fortress?
<bigcalm> Ah, it's sticking to everything now :)
<MooDoo> just rain where I am.
<MartijnVdS> clear skies & sun here
<DJones> bigcalm: Slowly narrowing down the choices for a laptop, currently looking at the Lenovo & an MSI, only trouble is the MSI keyboard looks to be US format, can't quite tell on the Lenovo
<MooDoo> DJones: aren't the lenovo screens a bit small, can you get 15' ones?
<bigcalm> MSI? I didn't know they did anything but mobos
<DJones> MSI http://uk.hardware.info/productinfo/196050/msi-gp60-2od-037nl#tab:specifications
<DJones> Lenovo http://uk.hardware.info/productinfo/195744/lenovo-ideapad-y510p#tab:photos Its a specific version, I can only find one of them though
<MooDoo> DJones: ubuntu as the os?
<DJones> It will have, but will need Windows for work
<DJones> Both look to be the same spec
<DJones> apart from a Nvidia 740/745
<MartijnVdS> don't do nvidia!
<MartijnVdS> ask bigcalm :)
<DJones> Sorry, 755
<bigcalm> Heh
<DJones> I thought that was pretty much working now
<bigcalm> Pretty much
<bigcalm> Time for me to do a site deployment and ignore IRC for a bit
<MartijnVdS> hope it doesn't break on kernel bugfix though
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: good luck :)
<bigcalm> Ta :)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I copied you and ordered a gps unit for one of my pis
<diddledan> supreme accuracy ntp ftw
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yay :)
<diddledan> I'm thinking of building a wallclock run off it too
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I have a custom kernel (with a "pps-gpio" driver), because the user-space solution doesn't work
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: and you need to rebuild the ntp package with pps-tools (or utils?) installed, so it has some PPS .h file, and actually builds PPS support
<popey> bigcalm: you have snow!?
<popey> we just have rain and wind â¹
<MooDoo> popey: what's the flooding like where you are?  are you affected?
<MooDoo> is anyone here affected?
<diddledan> wet and widdly here, too
<diddledan> but I'm not far from popey so that makes sense
<popey> my house is apparently 500m from flood risk
<MooDoo> oh crap
<diddledan> eep
<popey> but it's not rising
<MooDoo> small mercies then
<popey> my back garden floods a bit, but only an inch or so
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/
<popey> rain and wind
<MooDoo> and grey very grey
<brobostigon> good morning, boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<directhex> yucky weather
<directhex> at least the trains are running better than yesterday
<MooDoo> directhex: everywhere :(
<popey> haha, bbc news reporters standing in rain
<MooDoo> oh the working at home life ;)
<foobarry> getting my back fence ripped out today
<foobarry> must be muddy business
<ali1234> we've got rain gardens
<JamesTait> Oh yuck, it's snowing heavily here now. :(
<MooDoo> where are you JamesTait ?
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9fhxa8yFb0 ?
<JamesTait> Only just down the road from you, MooDoo - Derby.
<diddledan> I need milk but it's raining :-(
<MooDoo> JamesTait: thought so which is why i was confused as it's bloomin raining here
<MartijnVdS> directhex: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0844471/
<JamesTait> MooDoo, it was here 15 minutes ago.
<MooDoo> stupi weather
<popey> Interesting, since when did wikipedia have "pending review" for page edits? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shirley_Temple&action=history
<MartijnVdS> they've had it for a while I think, especially on often-vandalized pages
<bashrc> pending review by who?
<diddledan> bashrc: teh reviewers :-p
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: the Great Wikipedia Censorship Board
<bashrc> I didn't think wikipedia had any official censors
<diddledan> bashrc: I want to know who reviews the reviewers
<bashrc> make a bad change, someone else reverts it
<diddledan> make a good change, someone else reverts it
<diddledan> democracy in action
<bashrc> :)
<bashrc> I had that happen plenty of times.  That's why I gave up making wikipedia edits
<diddledan> I hate the [citation required] crud they insist on plastering everywhere but not as everywhere as it could be
 * popey bookmarks "Ain't no party like a Pyongyang party cuz a Pyongyang party is ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY!"
<bashrc> does mandatory parties mean mandatory beer and cake?
<diddledan> I sometimes feel like being an ass and plastering [citation required] on every statement everywhere
<diddledan> just to get them to realise how pointless the damned thing is
<bashrc> mandate all the things!
<shauno> diddledan: this is my favourite one of those; http://cl.ly/image/2v2V0t2g3U1w
<shauno> I love the way it's just floating in the middle of nowhere
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> see even on that screencap you've got at least three other citation needed spots that haven't been highlighted
<diddledan> each of those equations should be required to be cited
<diddledan> who decides what needs to be cited and what doesn't? if there is noone to decide on that then _everything_ must be cited!
<ali1234> i don't see how anyone who isn't an editor can complain about wikipedia
<shauno> I edited ww2 once.  does that count?
<ali1234> it is unarguably more useful than print encyclopedias and you are getting it for nothing
<diddledan> excuse me, but I like sitting on this tall horse
<ali1234> if they make it easy for anyone to edit it then people moan about it being full of unsourced information
<ali1234> and if they make it hard to edit people complain about the bureaucracy
<diddledan> citation required there methinks
<shauno> looking at my edits on wp, most of them are either 'repair formatting' or 'minor grammar'.  I guess I don't have much to contribute
<ali1234> i wasn't specifically talking about anyone in particular
<ali1234> i just see a lot of whinging from people and they can't all be editors
<ali1234> same goes for all the people who complain about the debian init thing
<ali1234> they don't like it when someone like shuttleworth just decides for everyone, and they don't like the slow democratic method either
<ali1234> so you can't win
<popey> fair
<popey> I wasn't complaining btw, about the wikipedia review thing â»
<popey> just surprised to see it, figured it was new
<ali1234> i've not heard of it either
<ali1234> it seems reasonable
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> should prevent edit wars where the page is in constant flux, at least
<ali1234> or at least cut it down
<shauno> it should say on the page, a padlock near the top that tells you which policy its under
<popey> that would attract people to pages without padlocks
<popey> awww, snow is just north of m4, none here
<ali1234> trolls have bots anyway
<shauno> I dont' mean hypothetically, I mean that's the currency policy
<shauno> eg, your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Temple - there's a silver padlock on the top-right, below the search field.  that means that edits from new or unregistered users will go through review
<MooDoo> It's snowing
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> big flakes
<brobostigon> it just rain here, no snow yet.
<Laney> nice
<Laney> won't settle though
<MooDoo> I think I'll announce it on facebook, no one has windows who's on there :D
<MooDoo> Laney: yup far too wet
<diddledan> MooDoo: I'm on OS X, does that count?
<MooDoo> diddledan: you should be shot sir ;)
<shauno> several times a day
<bigcalm> Is there an easy way to watch hdd activity on a server?
<directhex> iotop?
<bigcalm> directhex: that's a start, thanks :)
<shauno> what's one thing I wish linux had from osx, fsevents
<MartijnVdS> shauno: like inotify?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: check incron, and/or inotify-{tools,hookable}
<shauno> is there an easy way to get inotify to just dump everything?
<bigcalm> I really wish I could install gkrellm2 on a client's server. So much useful information in one place
<popey> why can't you?
<bigcalm> Oh, maybe munin is an option
<bigcalm> Anybody here used munin?
<popey> can you not just run gkrellm as your user?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: everything?
<bigcalm> popey: could do. I have to justify installing stuff on their servers. I think they might prefer something like munin
<MartijnVdS> an SNMP daemon! They can't object to that
<MartijnVdS> Write a simple "Pass" script to get out the variables you need (part of snmpd's configuration) -> done!
<shauno> MartijnVdS: on osx, if I run fs_usage with no arguements, it'll just start listing every single open/close/read/stat/etc system-wide
<shauno> obviously you can narrow it down a bit from there, but this is oddly handy when you want to know why your disk is still awake
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I assume those tools can do that too
<dwatkins> bigcalm: yep - http://i.imgur.com/aB2nbxA.jpg
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: is that the bitcoin price? 8-)
<dwatkins> I quite like munin for the monitoring you can do of memory usage, disk space etc. but it doesn't do alerts afaik, nagios does, iirc
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: haha no, temperature from a USB sensor
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: cool :)
<dwatkins> lower image is from here: http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Edinburgh/hour_by_hour.html
<dwatkins> it's really useful, I have two monitors connected to that RPi now, so I renamed it to raspberrytau.corp.whereiwork.com
<shauno> 26Âº is cool?
<dwatkins> shauno: I think it's about 2 degress out, but at least it's useful for comparing with its own results
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Â°, not Âº ;)
<bigcalm> dwatkins: great. I shall play with it on my own server at some point
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: what's the difference? Is one for navigation, the other for temperature?
<shauno> I may need a magnifying glass, I can't see the difference  lol
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: no, one is
<MartijnVdS> U+00BA Âº masculine ordinal indicator
<MartijnVdS> mine is
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I have one on here too that does the other stuff, in case you're curious... http://edinburgh.piku.org.uk/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/index.html
<dwatkins> (yes, I know, I never set the domain properly)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: gesundheit
<MartijnVdS> Mine is U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN
<dwatkins> I'm puzzled as to how I get exactly 1 eth0 error each day, though.
<dwatkins> writing plugins for munin is fairly easy, which is handy
<shauno> MartijnVdS: interesting.  I haven't rewrote my keymap on this one, so I'm not sure why that'd be there
<bigcalm> dwatkins: my goodness, that's a lot of wonderful information :)
<dwatkins> bigcalm: yeah, it needs tidying up a little, but it's really useful to see it all
<MartijnVdS> shauno: to quote wikipedia:
<MartijnVdS> shauno: The masculine ordinal indicator U+00BA (Âº) is often confused with the degree sign U+00B0 (Â°), which looks very similar in many fonts and is available on Italian and Spanish keyboard layout. The degree sign is a uniform circle and is never underlined, while the letter o may be oval or elliptical and have a varying stroke width. The letter o may also be underlined.
<dwatkins> "In written languages, an ordinal indicator is a letter, or group of letters, following a numeral denoting that it is an ordinal number, rather than a cardinal number."
<MartijnVdS> like "st" in "1st"
<dwatkins> I had to switch to simple.wikipedia.org to get a good description... "Ordinal numbers (or ordinals) are numbers that show something's order, for example: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th."
<shauno> okay, silly question, which one is Ë?
<dwatkins> I prefer the German way of just adding a dot, although it might be confused with the end of a sentence.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that's another one!
<shauno> (it's a deadkey that I can slap on top of letters, ala oÌ)
<shauno> fun
<MartijnVdS> shauno: U+02DA RING ABOVE
<shauno> aha, I see another one, Â°
<MartijnVdS> shauno: or U+030A COMBINING RING ABOVE
<MartijnVdS> shauno: paste in the "find" box of gucharmap
<shauno> sorry, I shouldn't be asking you, but I can't tell the difference between them  lol
<dwatkins> So much character.
<MartijnVdS> very codepoint
<shauno> hm, that'll be fun.  so on my mac, altfr-shift-8 is degrees and altgr-0 is this ordinal.  on work machine, altgr-0 is degrees and altgr-shift-8 does nothing
<shauno> MartijnVdS, almost unrelated, how come it's you that notices this every single time?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Good eyes ;)
<dwatkins> shauno: how is your work machine different? Different region keyboard?
<shauno> the keymap I use on the mac (us-international) doesn't exist on XP.  I've been writing my own, which gets refined over time as I find things I've missed
<dwatkins> ah yes, I use an Apple keyboard on my PC at home, and keep confusing the @ and " keys
<shauno> oh that's barely the start of it.  I like to have all my deadkeys where I'm used to them too
<shauno> (which is why I use us-international instead of the GB layout - it has a whole lot more diacritics on deadkeys)
<diddledan> random: bsd network interfaces have a "PERFORMNUD" flag - I'm left wondering why my interfaces would want to perform nude
<shauno> I remember looking into that, it's something todo with neighbour discovery
<shauno> if you disable it, ipv6 breaks in more ways than you can keep track of
<dwatkins> those keys aren't dead, they're very much alive....
<shauno> :)  well, silly things like the GB layout has Ã§ on altgr-C.  I use Å£ more than Ã§, and us-int has Â¸as a deadkey
<shauno> it seems really nit-picky, but being able to spell people's names correctly scores brownie points. Åukasz might be used to Lukasz, but he'll appreciate the difference
<popey> given  Å is pronounced W, it kinda matters â»
<ali1234> there are people named woo-kas?
<shauno> turned out he can't type it properly either, because he's in our australian office, so doesn't have those keys either.  but it won't stop me trying
<shauno> the sz is a 'sh'
<popey> yeah, Wukash
<popey> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%81ukasz has a handy audio clip
<shauno> I can't pronounce it without sounding like I'm aping Connery.  which is why I <3 email
<ali1234> how does stuff get transliterated in such weird ways?
<popey> w and l sound a lot alike
<foobarry> or wookiee
<ali1234> ok, how did "wing" get transliterated into "nguyen"?
<foobarry> is that how you pronounce nguyen?
<ali1234> alledgedly
<popey> it sounds like it
<popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nguyen_(northern_dialect).ogg
<popey> take the g away and it sounds much more like win(g)
<ali1234> it's madness
<ali1234> we should just teach kids unicode in nursery
<popey> haha
<ali1234> imagine how long the poster would have to be
<popey> sophie uses unicode pile of poo a lot â»
<shauno> sz makes sense to me.  it'd be Å¡ in slovak, and putting Å¡ into sz seems as logical as the germans putting Ã¼ into ue
<MartijnVdS> popey: in Cryptonomicon, there's a character named "John Nguyen" who wants to be called "John Wayne"
<ali1234> n'wayne is actually pretty close to the ogg ^
<shauno> always fun finding letters you simply can't pronounce
<ali1234> pretty much all the sounds exist in english somewhere
<andylockran> hey guys
<ali1234> sometimes only when you combine two words though
<andylockran> anyone know the software that powered ubuntu brainstorm when it was runing?
<andylockran> *running
<ali1234> wasn't it basically a stack exchange clone?
<shauno> one I'm constantly hung up on is Å¥, which doesn't appear to be in english - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palatal_stop
<shauno> andylockran: it appears to be a module called qa-poll on drupal.  apparently it used to be at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa-website-devel/ubuntu-qa-website/trunk
<shauno> I don't see it anymore, but you might be able to go dumpster-diving through old revisions, or figure out who better to ask from there?
<mapps> hey does anyone ever / has anyon ever had any success trying to recover data off damaged hdds? ive read plenty and tried from time to time but get nowhere:)
<diplo> mapps I've been doing it recently
<diplo> All depends on how bad it is, dding the drive is the best thing to try fierst and work from a image
<mapps> i guess quite damaged
<mapps> they make the ticking sound
<MartijnVdS> consider the data lost
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i thought so
<mapps> unless i could replace the ctual electronics from a simlar drive
<mapps> so no:)
<dwatkins> My brother shorted-out a drive once (250 GB IDE HDD), we took the board from an identical drive and fitted it onto his broken one, but something internal must have been shorted as well, as it wasn't recognised by the PC.
<dwatkins> He had used the wrong 3-pin power connector for the enclosure (he has a camera with a very similar plug, but where the +5 volts is on a different pin)
<dwatkins> I suspect ticking is more likely an issue with the read head, though.
<mapps> ah that sucks
<mapps> i have an old laptop hdd where the pins are bent
<mapps> basically ended up bending them when i had to remove it..couldnt get it out..been tryng to straighten them out heh
<dwatkins> at least if it's just the pins, you could (in theory) replace the entire connectgor.
<mapps> hm yea
<shauno> they're usually quite easy to straighten if you can find a 2mm header that's much shorter (a lot less pins wide).  it's easier to tease them row-by-row like that
<mapps> 2mm header?
<shauno> I mean like the plug that's meant to go in there, but nowhere near the full width
<shauno> it's difficult to straighten them using the right plug because you've messed up the spacing.  if you can find (*hint*hacksaw*hint*) one with a lot less pins, you can go at it peicemeal
<diplo> mapps: The one I did recently ticked, I used to copy stuff from it after letting it get freezing cold
<mapps> hm
<diplo> At the time it was -2 outside, I'd take it out of the caddy it was in, lean it against the window and then put it back in for a while copy more files
<mapps> yea
<mapps> ive heard people say putting a damaged hdd in the freezer can help
<foobarry> never worked for me
<foobarry> also the hit with hammer trick
<shauno> presuming you tried the freezer before the hammer
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> :P
<foobarry> hammer made me feel better though
<diddledan> hitting it with a hammer surely can't be a good idea?!
<diddledan> unless your aim is for data destruction
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: sometimes it helps to hit it on the side, to get the platters spinning again
<shauno> it sounds like it's intended for when you're out of good ideas, and you're moving on to simply .. ideas
<foobarry> my friend who's disk it was asked his prayer group to pray for it. he didn't tell them that we had already tried the hammer thing
<diddledan> I'm not sure divine intervention works on hard discs
<MartijnVdS> try dousing it in spaghetti sauce. His Noodly Appendage might touch it
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ^
<foobarry> i've prayed for servers many times
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: yeah pastafarian may help
<shauno> there's also quite a divide between a tap to unstick stuck stuff, and venting your frustration with a ballpeen
<diddledan> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fin-wearable-ring-make-your-palm-as-numeric-keypad-and-gesture-interface
<diddledan> the problem with that is it's limited to the sort of things you can gesture by being attached at the base of your thumb
<diddledan> I want a full-hand-based gesture control that works anywhere
<shauno> tried that leap motion?
<diddledan> I want to get one just to play with
<diddledan> maplin were doing them fairly well-priced at about 50-60 a while ago
<ali1234> they're not very good
<ali1234> it can recognise when your hand is open or closed but only if it is at the exact right orientation
<ali1234> if it's not, it can only track the position
<dutchie> repost from my twitter: Good manufacturer/place to buy disks? Probably will end up buying both SSD and spinny for OS/apps vs media archive.
<dutchie> advice welcome :)
<ali1234> i just bought a SSD, supposedly the delivery driver is 15 minutes away
<diddledan> dutchie: I also have that query for a zfs nas - I'm thinking of building a beast of a nas with both spinny for long-term storage and 1xssd for cache (read) and another ssd for high-speed log (write)
<dutchie> you have clearly put more thought into this than i have :)
<diddledan> I'm thinking 3 or 4 HDDs at about 3TB
<dutchie> i got as far as "oh dear i think my current ones are poorly" and "btrfs sounds like fun"
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I don't think btrfs is as far along the lifecycle as zfs, so I'm thinking it doesn't do the cache and log that zfs gives you out-of-the-box
<diddledan> (if you have enough discs, that is)
<dutchie> diddledan: yeah, i'm not so fussed about hardcore log/cache etc, something more linux native is better for me i think
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> didn't mean to do that
<diddledan> dutchie: I'm only doing the hardcore for geek cred :-p
<dutchie> haha
<dwatkins> I used to have multiple USB hard drives attached to a netbook for storage, I kept having to buy more so I ended up buying a Synology NAS which manages all sorts of things for me.
<dutchie> maybe i should just get a nas or something like that
<dutchie> but it seems like a waste when i have a case with room for 6 disks
<awilkins> Pop quiz hotshot : Your house is on fire. Do you i) die horribly trying to tote out your huge tower case or ii) Conveniently save all your data with your nice NAS-with-a-suitcase-handle-on-top
<bigcalm> awilkins: iii) you already have off-site backups
<awilkins> Well, there is that
<bigcalm> :D
<awilkins> I don't
<bigcalm> You should?
<awilkins> Except for things I shove into Git repos
<awilkins> And Dropbox
<awilkins> Which is pretty much most of my work
<bigcalm> I use rdiff-backup to sync my parent's stuff to here. And visa-versa
<awilkins> I have one external drive that receives duplicity backups
<bigcalm> Not off-site though?
<awilkins> No
<awilkins> Should probably address that. Damn.
<bigcalm> In the case of a fire, I still doubt you would stop to take anything. Just get out of the building
<awilkins> The fire would probably be in my office anyway :-)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: please check if the firmware on that nAS is up to date, there have been reports of pwned Synology NASes
<MartijnVdS> (that then mine bitcoins..)
<awilkins> How disgustingly inefficient
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: sure, but if you have a million pwned devices, 20khash/device starts to become useful
<diddledan> a meelion?!
<diddledan> any fans of weebl n bob? their creator has a kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/weebl/the-savlonic-album
<MartijnVdS> heh @ toiletcam of weebl
<mapps> still a lot of places flooded in the UK hey
<mapps> 800people in Berkshire are out of their houses
<awilkins> Sinkholes forming in the middle of motorways : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-26143100
<awilkins> #floodageddon
<mapps> must be awful
<brobostigon> good drum lesson, :)
<mapps> having to leave your house..everything ruined
<mapps> then fighting with the insurance co for payouts
<awilkins> I remember it just flooding our foundations when I was younger, it was pretty weird
<awilkins> The house smelt a bit for a while
<awilkins> But nothing like this
<mapps> yea
<mapps> this is quite bad hey
<mapps> Berkshire / Somerset / Chertsey
<mapps> and i think reading has issues too?
<awilkins> Of course, no wonder Darling Dave says "Money no object" for flood relief - all Tory heartlands
<mapps> lol
<mapps> talks cheap though
<mapps> have they actually done much..
<mapps> seemed like photo ops was all it was about
<awilkins> All that talk of dredging
<awilkins> Doesn't really address problem which is run-off
<mapps> well
<awilkins> Dredging guarantees that you have to do more dredging
<mapps> maybe if they werent building houses EVERYWHERE
<awilkins> So it's a nice pork barrel
<awilkins> Planting trees - that fixes the problem
<mapps> so they wouldnt be building houses on these areas likely to flood
<mapps> but instead ..build everywhere nw eh
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: talk to some of our (Dutch) civil engineers about that :)
<shauno> that's why the dutch scare me.  the only thing standing between them, and this, is that they're too nice; http://blog.modernmechanix.com/north-sea-drainage-project-to-increase-area-of-europe/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: also price
<MartijnVdS> shauno: we do have these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works
<MartijnVdS> shauno: and these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board
<mapps> i dont get it..somehow cgiirc wont work anymore just says error mkdir permission denied..ive checked the permissions on the files or cgiiirc which are in a folder in the apache htdocs
<mapps> i even made them all 777 just to test and still wont work
<MartijnVdS> mapps: 777 is never a good idea
<mapps> agree
<MartijnVdS> mapps: which directory is it trying to create? Can it get there? (are all its parents at least +x for the user it's running as)
<mapps> but this was just to test - as i couldnt think why it doesnt work
<mapps> and with 777 surely it should work?
<mapps> still doesnt work now
<mapps> im not sure tbh MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> mapps: some apps are smart and check for 777 and fail :)
<MartijnVdS> mapps: you should check that then :)
<mapps> how lol
<mapps> i cant see any log or anythng
<MartijnVdS> No apache errorlog?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2204469&page=2
<mapps> [Sat Feb 8 21:46:24 2014] CGI:IRC Error: Mkdir error: Permission denied (main::load_socket 1252)
<mapps> [Sat Feb 08 21:53:56.012874 2014] [access_compat:error] [pid 10231:tid 2954840896]
<mapps> [client 81.94.213.24:50862] AH01797: client denied by server configuration: /usr/local/apache/htdocs/testing/modules/
<mapps> and another 2 about client denied 1 saying .htaccess which i dont think is related ..and 1 about cgiirc.config  but i couldnt see anything in there
<mapps> and it worked before then sudden;ly stopped working
<shauno> MartijnVdS: interesting reading.  especially that they already have long-term plans into 2100/2200
<MartijnVdS> shauno: best way to stay prepared
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I pay tax to this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoogheemraadschap_van_Rijnland
<shauno> does it worry you that your zombie plan has to include lowland evacuation?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollandic_Water_Line
<MartijnVdS> shauno: we're prepared
<mapps> =[
 * MartijnVdS Ubuntufies his old phone (Galaxy Nexus)
<daftykins> :o
<MartijnVdS> I'm not using it anyway,so why not ;)
<daftykins> i have a friend in the US who has a telco branded one that's suffering from age
<daftykins> had yours begun to flake out at all?
<MartijnVdS> display has dark lines in it
<MartijnVdS> but it's fine otherwise
<MartijnVdS> and with "dark lines" I mean some horizontal lines are darker (not black) than they're supposed to be
<daftykins> hrmm
<MartijnVdS> it now has a green android on a purple (sorry, "aubergine") background
<MartijnVdS> and a spinny thing
<MartijnVdS> popey: how long does that usually take? Minutes? Hours?
<MartijnVdS> ooh it looks more done now
<popey> â»
<popey> 10 mins?
<MartijnVdS> popey: yeah, took about 10 minutes, but now it's stuck again
<MartijnVdS> popey: "Disable recovery flash?"
<popey> no idea
<popey> ask in #ubuntu-touch â»
<popey> i dont have a maguro
<MartijnVdS> I will, thanks :)
<popey> davmor2 may know
<MartijnVdS> I think I only have 6 apps installed?
<MartijnVdS> oh .. 9
<MartijnVdS> but graphics are *laggy*
<MartijnVdS> I like how sometimes, scrolling from the bottom brings up a back button, while other times it doesn't
<popey> inside apps?
<popey> thats going away, so no worries â»
<popey> the whole bottom toolbar will be merged with the top bar
<MartijnVdS> uh.. how do you get somewhere else then?
<MartijnVdS> Once I open an app, I can't get back to something else without that or turning the phone off and back on
<MartijnVdS> which takes a lot of time
<MartijnVdS> (note that I'm left-handed, which might impact usability of a right-handed interface for me)
<popey> swipe in from the right
<popey> or swipe in from the left
<popey> right is like alt-tab, left brings out the launcher
<popey> there should have been a welcome demo when you first started?
<MartijnVdS> there was, but I think I clicked in the wrong place and it skipped after 2 slides
<popey> there's only 4 slides
<popey> right, left, top, bottom
<MartijnVdS> swiping in from the right doesn't do a lot
<MartijnVdS> app gets smaller, then goes back to original size
<MartijnVdS> ah, I see how it works like alt-tab now
<MartijnVdS> but my thumb isn't big enough to reach the right side :(
<daftykins> hehe
<MartijnVdS> let's say there's room for improvement ;)
<daftykins> those don't even particularly sound like pleasant methods
<MartijnVdS> I don't really use the big Ubuntu button on the desktop either.. I just use the 4 icons in the sidebar
<MartijnVdS> (that I've put there ;))
<daftykins> the times i've run liveCDs to get stuff done, typically running the disk utility program, i've found varying success from clicking dash -> then typing "disk"
<daftykins> sometimes it wouldn't give the program at all
<MartijnVdS> I use alt+F2 to run programs
<daftykins> yeah, i always did do
<MartijnVdS> what do you do now?
<daftykins> but i'm not sure i know the name now
<daftykins> well i don't actually run ubuntu desktop
<daftykins> i think palimpset used to be the name
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<MartijnVdS> now it's just gnome-disks
<daftykins> oh right
<daftykins> but from what i understood, doesn't alt+f2 in unity run the dash bar anyway?
<MartijnVdS> no, the windows key does that
<MartijnVdS> alt+f2 is special
<MartijnVdS> so special it's not even in the hotkey menu when you hold the windows key
<daftykins> super :(
<diddledan> is download.microsoft.com being ddosed?
<diddledan> I'm getting pitiful speed downloading from there
<diddledan> 25KB/s
<diddledan> that's on a good second
<diddledan> down to 10 now
<brobostigon> it a microsoft service, so no doubt it has a will be ddos's at some point,
<diddledan> chrome's telling me it's going to take over an hour to get 70MB downloaded
<brobostigon> try something from a fast server like mirror.ox.ac.uk and compare
<mapps> ugh
<mapps> what would make cgiirc say mkdir error permissio denied? besides surely the files/folders not got right perms
<mapps> hmm why does apache look to be running 4-5x when i do ps aux | grep http 0 4 as user apache 1 as root
<daftykins> because that's how apache works :)
<daftykins> multiple workers
<mapps> yea
<mapps> starts as root then forks
<mapps> daftykins, can you look at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2204469&page=2
<mapps> im just stuck ...
<mapps> =]
<daftykins> mapps: which user is apache running as? www-data?
<mapps> apache is running as user apache
<daftykins> wat
<mapps> but im a bit confused - if you se my post daftykins  i changed the files and everything to 777 just for testing
<daftykins> is this a manual apache install on non-ubuntu?
<mapps> manual apache install on ubuntu
<daftykins> ouch
<mapps> apache 10229 0.0 0.8 18724 9036 ? S 19:40 0:00 /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd -k start
<mapps> apache 10230 0.0 1.2 249384 12960 ? Sl 19:40 0:01 /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd -k start
<mapps> apache 10231 0.0 1.5 255012 15376 ? Sl 19:40 0:01 /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd -k start
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> why not via packages?
<mapps> but it did work before
<mapps> just because i wanted to learn and be able to compile stuff manuallyu etc
<daftykins> ah
<mapps> cgiirc was working a few days back i restarted and now its not..and i cant figure out what exactly to do
<daftykins> what i would guess is the user apache doesn't have writes to create whatever folder it's trying to create
<daftykins> s/writes/rights/
<mapps> i chownd the cgiirc dir (/usr/local/apache/htdocs/testing) yto apache
<mapps> yea any ideas how to fix?
<daftykins> can you confirm with ls -l in that path?
<daftykins> use paste.ubuntu.com
<mapps> error on there
<mapps> il use pastebin
<mapps> http://pastebin.com/p5FgixHb
<mapps> and included the log down bottom
<mapps> all i can find
<daftykins> 'nogroup' doesn't seem right, isn't that a samba thing 0o
<daftykins> i've got zero experience with CGI
<mapps> hm
<mapps> root@dimension:/usr/local/apache/htdocs/testing# groups apache
<mapps> apache : nogroup
<mapps> root@dimension:/usr/local/apache/htdocs/testing#
<mapps> im out of ideas really..dunno how i screwed it up..it did work and id used it before
<mapps> know of any alternatives to cgiirc?
<daftykins> why aren't you just SSH'ing home?
<mapps> i cant
<mapps> id get in treouble using an ssh app at work
<daftykins> but not IRC in general? :D
<mapps> well
<mapps> its less noticable if its threough the browser
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: thanks for the heads-up, I don't have it directly accessible from the outside (except via apache on a server which has the synology mounted via NFS, and is only accessible from specific IP addresses), but will check.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: this looks interesting: http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/528543
<ali1234> nouveau doesn't work with my new video card any better than it did with my old one
<ali1234> in fact it's somewhat worse, since it now doesn't support multihead or even changing the resolution to something other than whatever mode it boots up in
<bigcalm> ali1234: is that because you're using an ATI gfx card? ;)
<ali1234> no, it's because i'm using a recent nvidia card
<ali1234> i wish there was a proper devel metapackage or task
<dogmatic69> My laptop screen hinge broke, any recommendations on a place that will sell replacements (acer aspire E1)
<dogmatic69> found one on ebay for Â£9 so should do the trick
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-12
<MartijnVdS> I'd try ebay first too, dogmatic69
<mapps> given up on squidguard trying ufdbguard
<mapps> ;]
<MartijnVdS> mapps: what are you trying to do with it?
<mapps> just have some knd of blocklist system for use with squid proxy
<MartijnVdS> mapps: just ask your ISP to give you pre-filtered internet ;)
<MartijnVdS> isn't that a law now?
<mapps> yea but i think it only applies to new connections andisnt rolled out for all yet
<MooDoo> morning all
<jussi> I dont understand... what value is thereto making mobile phones with glass screens and not plastic :/
<jussi> (yep, broke my screen last night)
<MooDoo> ouch, mine broke a few months ago, just a hair line crack, nothing to worry about just a pain in the neck
<jussi> MooDoo: mine looks more like a car windscreen after an accident...
<MooDoo> oh bugger
<jussi> MooDoo: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2usG9rmoZzcVnlMRTNndm52aDg/edit?usp=sharing
<MooDoo> jussi: oh that's not good :(
<jussi> MooDoo: yeah, its nasty
<jussi> I think Im going to try do the change myself, with a hairdryer etc...
<MooDoo> good luck with that one :D
<jussi> lol
<MooDoo> about the most technical thing I did last night was install 13.10 on my laptop lol
<MooDoo> and watch all the debian users kick off about systemd lol
<jussi> MooDoo: its not much to lose to be honest - If I screw it up then I just have to buy the more complicated part, which is the other alternative anyway... and the glass itself only costs about a tenner...
<MooDoo> that's not too bad then, I'd just end up buying a new phone lol
<MooDoo> bloomin ICANN
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon how goes it?
<brobostigon> not bad, still half asleep, busy day. and you MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah finally got my ubuntu working how I like it :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<brobostigon> i would say the same about my pebble, finally got the right watchapp with the right information i want.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: still tempted to upgrade to LTS lol
<brobostigon> which lts is the important question, :)
<MooDoo> well upgrade was the clue :p
<MooDoo> not downgrade ;)
<brobostigon> lts to lts ?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: ok my fault :) i'm on 13.10 to 14.04 :)
<brobostigon> ah,. :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: apparently it's stable enough so I might give it a try
<brobostigon> isnt that the point of lts, that it is stable, ?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yes, but normally I don't install stuff until release, and as that's a couple of months away...
<brobostigon> good point, maybe try a daily build and see how stable it is, or a persistant usb, ?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah good plan :D
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: don't think i'll touch my server though until it's done, my minecraft playing friends would go nuts if I broke it :D
<brobostigon> i run my MC server on debian testing,
<MooDoo> brobostigon: I just happen to have a vps through work so I use that :D  mines not vanilla though it's Feed the beast :D
<brobostigon> ah.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: got bored with vanilla, there is only so much you can do :(
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i have yet to test other versions.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: try feed the beast, you'll love it, there is so much more you can do :)
<brobostigon> i will look it up, :)
<MooDoo> yay
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<diplo> Got any VMWare ESX users in here ?
<MooDoo> diplo: I've only played with 3.5 on a 32bit platform so it's a bit old
<diplo> ok ta
<diplo> We had a power cut at headoffice yesterday, one of the VM's lost most of it's config files in the vm dir, seeing if anyone else has ever seen that.. found some KB's on VM's site so going to try that
<MooDoo> ouch :(
<diplo> It's out main SVN server :/
<MooDoo> bugger
<diplo> ( this isn't my role ) but I can't find backups either, the hardware guys don't seem to know if it has or not :/
<neuro> diplo: what vm platform?
<dwatkins> If the VM's virtual disk is ok, can the rest be recreated?
<neuro> i was going to suggest simply mounting the virtual disk onto another vm
<diplo> neuro: 4.1 esxi
<neuro> yikes, old :)
<diplo> Basically you normally have two or more vmdk files, a vmx file and some others
<neuro> i know
<diplo> I have flat_vmdk and another one and that's it
<diplo> It seems I can re-create
<diplo> At a push
<czajkowski> aloha
<neuro> mahalo
 * czajkowski hugs neuro 
<Laney> meow
<czajkowski> Laney: enjoy fosdem ?
<czajkowski> the drinking in darkness was a tad odd :)
<bigcalm> You should try blind dining
<foobarry> whats the new compression format they use for the kernel now? didn't bzip get replaced
<Laney> czajkowski: big and scary and dark!
<Laney> but there were a lorra people there & also free mongo cupcakes
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Darwin Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<SuperMatt> dudes
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: and dudettes :p
<neuro> gawd
<MooDoo> lol
<neuro> i'm working with a guy who types soooo slowly
<MooDoo> neuro: using one finger on each hand?
<neuro> which means in our chat app, all i see is "<bloke's user name> is typing" for AAAAGES
<MartijnVdS> neuro: "Give me that keyboard" feelings?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: did you want something matey?
<neuro> MartijnVdS: sometimes i think it would be quicker on a conference call
<neuro> and i hate conference calls
<neuro> MooDoo: not so much slow typing per se
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: no, nothing
<neuro> i've seen the guy type and he's not a slow 'un
<SuperMatt> just saying hi
<neuro> but he tends to type multiple paragraphs at a time
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: HI  o/ :)
<SuperMatt> HI
<neuro> rather than mashing return every so often
<neuro> so it takes ages to get a reply
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I know a guy like that.. typing is excruciatinly slow, but every morning he comes in with another gigabyte of new code to review
<neuro> and because we're using a lovely ajaxy awesome web chat app thing, it does the skype thang and shows when someone is typing
<MartijnVdS> Sometimes I wonder if he employs people who type code for him ;)
<diplo> neuro: Guy I work with is like that, I end up calling him most of the time
<neuro> :)
<neuro> MartijnVdS: he's a contractor ... possibly!!
<czajkowski> Laney: the cupcakes were a lot of fun
<czajkowski> at oint point I thought we'd ordered too much and then I hda a queue of over 200 people outside the nosql room waiting to go in so gave a way a lot of them
<Laney> nice
<neuro> I MISSED CUPCAKES?!?!??!?
<neuro> [insert swear words here]
<czajkowski> neuro: 1000 of them to be exact
<MooDoo> I knew I should of gone
<neuro> [insert more swear words]
<czajkowski> neuro: https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/429916739758211072/photo/1
<neuro> we really should be able to temporarily suspend logging and code of conduct so that i can go on a swear bender
<neuro> czajkowski: [SWEAR WORDS]!!!!!
<MooDoo> neuro join #swearbender to vent ;)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: #ubuntu-scotland
<czajkowski> lol
<neuro> haha
<neuro> ok i swear this guy has been typing for 3 mnutes
<neuro> oh there we go
<neuro> war and peace
<czajkowski> neuro: feel better now
<neuro> czajkowski: yes!
<shauno> neuro: I know that pain.  we have a manager who appears to type with one finger. ".. is typing" for ages, you're starting to get optimistic that there's actually a decent, fleshed out answer coming.  and then it arrives.  "strange."
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I have a few friends like that too. "How are you?" [.. is typing, for 5 minutes] "Fine"
<jussi> laptop manufacturers that put fn+$key for volume keys should be shot
<jussi> I shouldnt have to use 2 hands to change the volume...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: mine has a bios (efi system setup?) setting for that :)
<jussi> especially fn in bottom left + F11/F12...
<jussi> MartijnVdS: hrm?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: I can switch my keyboard between "F-key = F-key" and "F-key is multimedia key" modes from the bios
<jussi> ahh
<MartijnVdS> jussi: in both cases, the Fn-key makes them do the other action (so if it's set to F-key = F-key, Fn+F-key = Multimedia key)
<jussi> I dont think this HP has that... should check
<MartijnVdS> otherwise fn+F-key = F-key, and F-key without modifier = multimedia key
<jussi> sounds nice...
<MartijnVdS> dell ;)
<MartijnVdS> xps12
<shauno> that's how mine works too.  eg, f10 is mute or f10.  you choose whether you'd rather the default be f-keys or useful-keys
<popey> Morning
<MooDoo> Morning Alan
<jussi> woohoo... my raft of options includes.... wait for it... "Numlock on at boot" - not much else...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: which is evil tool
<MartijnVdS> too*
<jussi> I have some other stuff I can change, but nothing relevant :/
<jussi> what is Data Execution Prevention ?
<popey> supposed to prevent certain exploits
<popey> so you can only execute code from an execution block or something
<MartijnVdS> jussi: it marks memory pages as "contains executable code" or "doesn't contain executable code", and the CPU knows about that
 * popey remembers x86 assembler very vaguely
<jussi> so I should probably still leave it enabled :P
<MartijnVdS> jussi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NX_bit
<shauno> you shouldn't have to mess with that unless you're running an ancient kernel
<MartijnVdS> where ancient = >10 years old
<MartijnVdS> shauno: but he was talking about bios settings
<MartijnVdS> All CPU features, except "CPUID limit": enable ;)
<MooDoo> I haven't used a mail client on ubuntu for ages, normally use webmail, whats eveolution or thunderbird like nowadays?
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: did you get sorted in the end yesterday?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: with the phone? I just picked the "Yes" option manually
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: now it's just me not being able to figure out how to work Ubuntu Phone
<MooDoo> wish I could install it on my samsung gs3 :(
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: so phablet-flash ubuntu-system --channel devel-proposed -d (phone type maguro/mako) -b should do you in future if it is needed :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: :(
<popey> you shouldn't need to though, now you've flashed it
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you get used to it very quickly if it is the only device you use and then you struggle with android
<MartijnVdS> Should graphics be smooth? Or is the device just too old for that?
<MartijnVdS> (Galaxy Nexus)
<diplo> MooDoo: I use Thunderbird still on occasion, still sucks really
<diplo> End up using roundcube more
<popey> MartijnVdS: it needs some work, there's some performance issues we know about
<popey> qt5.2 fixes some of them
<popey> but some are app specific, and the devs need to improve them.
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah I'm already using webmail, just want to move to a desktop client so I can pop them all down....just playing really
<davmor2> MooDoo: thunderbird is definitely getting more sucky
<popey> we are adding a nice profiling popup in the phone UI so you can see how much time is spent in cpu/gpu while rendering
<MooDoo> davmor2: boooo
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: the galaxy nexus hardware is also kinda sucky so you can't take screenshots it will lock up the device, every now and then you'll close an app and the phone will just lock up ;(
<diplo> Mpt tried evolution in a long time ,keep meaning to try the new one but haven't had much chance recently
<MooDoo> I've just join #naughtystep
 * MooDoo slaps davmor2 with a wet fish
<davmor2> MooDoo: evo worked better for me than thunderbird but I like to try as stay as vanilla as I can on my system
<MooDoo> evo?  not heard of that, I'll take a look
<davmor2> evolution
<davmor2> MooDoo: ^
<MooDoo> doh!
<ali1234> why do the linked library names change when i strip an executable?
<davmor2> MooDoo: is that me left now?
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's fine i'm ops now
<MooDoo> yay for #naughtystep :D
<codecowboy> Hi. I'm seeing this memory usage on ubuntu - Mem:    604336k total,   564784k used,    39552k free,    34468k buffers. Its an AWS micro instance. Is there a way to see how much the OS is using?
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: what do you mean "the OS"?
<MartijnVdS> Which part of it?
<codecowboy> MartijnVdS well, I suppose I mean all processes which are necessary to operating system. I am trying to see how much memory there really is to play with over and above what the operating system - kernel, etc require
<MartijnVdS> why though? The kernel manages that for you.. once you run out of buffers and start using swap regularly, you start to worry
<MartijnVdS> but not before :)
<codecowboy> MartijnVdS I'm running this micro instance for a client and it seems to fall over after a couple of days and not let me ssh in. I'm trying to figure out why. I thought an obvious thing might be the memory filling up
<diplo> Doesn't Amazons web interface have great stats for stuff like that ? A friend uses it and gets alerts about mem usage and can diagnose from there quite often
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: it does seem a bit high on "used" vs "total", you could check what is using up all that memory using something like "top" (and sort by memory use)
<popey> codecowboy: is it running wordpress by any chance? â»
<codecowboy> popey nope, nodejs
<popey> ah
<codecowboy> MartijnVdS yeah, when I run top and hit m, everything apart from node, occasionally mysql and phantomjs are at 0.0.
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: you need capital M, and look at the memory columns, not the CPU columns
<codecowboy> MartijnVdS. yep, so the top % usage is node 10.1, phantomjs 8.6, mysqld 7.7 and another node 2.8 (guessing that one is my cron job). Is there a way to see actual memory usage in top, not percentage?
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: look in the "RES" or "VIRT" columns instead?
<MartijnVdS> there is no "actual" memory usage, with overcommitting etc. going on
<codecowboy> MartijnVdS cool, need to read up more on what all the top stuff is. thanks for your help!
<dwatkins> There's always system monitor, the graphical version.
<dwatkins> or on the flipside, 'sar' for fun with all sorts of kernel stats
<foobarry> somebody smashed the locks on my shed last night :S
<dwatkins> bah, foobarry
<foobarry> knocked them clean off.
<foobarry> looks like if someone wants to get in, then padlocks are a piffle
<dwatkins> I was just about to get this for a friend, perhaps it'll help: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0002558033/ (SAS urban survival handbook)
<dwatkins> Hopefully it doesn't suggest illegal things like concreting shards of glass to the top of your wall, much as I'd like to do that.
 * popey returns from a cold garden, making a ditch
<foobarry> not sure i'll be able to get new locks before the weekend
<foobarry> and if there's any point anyway
<awilkins> My co-worker is being upgraded to Windows 7. The tool doing the upgrade is based on Linux. This is some kind of filthy abomination.
<popey> they came into your garden?
<foobarry> popey: yes
<popey> golly
<foobarry> scoundrels
<diplo> bigcalm: Just saw you were trying munin on twitter
<diplo> What're you using it for specifically ?
<diplo> Just looking at sorting out our Nagios setup and trying some different things
<diplo> What do others use instead of Nagios?? Opsview/Icinga ?
<jussi> can someone make me a cup of tea... :/
<diplo> I'll have one at the same time!
<awilkins> Anyone know JAXB intimately
<awilkins> ?
<diplo> Nope, hadn't heard ofit till you asked :/
<foobarry> zabbix, graphite
<foobarry> ganglia
<diplo> Is that what you use foobarry ?
<jussi> anyone here got a good recipe for shepherds pie? I have found a bunch on the net, but a recommendation is always nice...
<foobarry> lamb or beef(cottage)
<jussi> foobarry: beef (although my mince is beef/pork mixx, but who cares)
<foobarry> didn't think there was much to it.
<DJones> jussi: Mince (Beef or Turkey) onions, carrots, peas & gravy for the base, mashed potato on top, maybe with some grated cheese for a crust
<foobarry> cook mince with finely chopped onions. slap on the mash. make a little plughed field motif on the top, heat in oven
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's pretty easy really. Fry the meat so it's brown. Add an onion, garlic, chopped carrot or two, peas, some chopped tomatoes - cook it down so it's a really thick gravy.
<Seeker`> jussi: put leek and cheese on top of the mashed potato
<TheOpenSourcerer> Boil some spuds.
<jussi> Seeker`: ooh, I wish I had leek!  nom
<TheOpenSourcerer> Smash them up, add butter, loads of cheese, some milk or cream and leeks on top
<TheOpenSourcerer> Grated nutmeg in the mash helps too. And always season (salt/pepper)
<jussi> recommended spices?
<DJones> salt & pepper
<TheOpenSourcerer> In the stew nothing much - I use herb de provence mostly
<jussi> nutmeg in the meat, I know.
<DJones> Don't go for overkill
<foobarry> crumble a bovril cube onto the mince to make it super beefy
<TheOpenSourcerer> nutmeg in the mash - not the meat
<jussi> foobarry: could be interesting
<TheOpenSourcerer> A teaspoon of Marmite instead of bovril :-D
<foobarry> or pour on some strong gravy
 * jussi wanders off to put on the spuds
<jussi> we dont have "gravy" here - got to make it myself
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just cook the meat with a tin of chopped toms
 * DJones wonders were jussi was last night http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/eu-justice-commissioner-viviane-reding-has-luggage-and-pie-stolen-from-official-car-parked-in-mayfair-outside-debate-on-europe-9120407.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> Trick is to make sure it's really thick and fairly cold before you put the mash on top. Else the mash will kind of sink in to the meat...
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Master-Lock-723EURD-140mm-Security/dp/B001MTERE8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392214256&sr=8-1&keywords=iron+hasp+staple
<foobarry> iron hasp stronger than hardened steel?
<foobarry> does a strong hasp mean they will kimmy the door next time?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'd doub't it foobarry - Iron tends to be more brittle than steel
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hardened steel is pretty tough.
<MooDoo> it's well 'ard ;)
<foobarry> reviews lok happy
<foobarry> why aren't there any brick and mortar shops anymore
<daftykins> nobody supported them
<foobarry> i tried
<foobarry> b&q and wickes dont hold stock
<daftykins> how did they make enough noise to get by some padlocks without being noticed?
<daftykins> i guess some proper cutters are pretty quiet
<foobarry> they twatted the locks off
<daftykins> brb
<foobarry> padlocks were still locked on the floor
<daftykins> O_O
<popey> screws fall out of the door?
<popey> well "fall"
<foobarry> no
<foobarry> imagine this kind of hasp http://www.amazon.co.uk/Master-Lock-7804704EURD-Weatherproof-Padlock/dp/B001MTERFW/ref=sr_1_13?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1392213159&sr=1-13&keywords=hasp+staple
<shauno> locks won't stop them if they're determined.  they basically just deter idle hands
<popey> .. but in bits on the floor?
<foobarry> the loop bit where the padlock goes on
<foobarry> got clobbered and fell off
<foobarry> padlocks intact on floor
<foobarry> with a broken loop bit
<foobarry> haven't asked neighbour yet if he got done over
<foobarry> looks like it will be easy access for them until the weekend anyway
<foobarry> bikes in the house time
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: get better quality padlocks next time ;)
<foobarry> no the padlocks are fine
<MartijnVdS> apparently they're not, if they've been destroyed
<MartijnVdS> ah wait, the loop you put it through
<foobarry> nope the hasp and staple they were attached to got destroyed
<MartijnVdS> I thought you meant the loop on top of the padlock
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> i wonder when amazon will start letting you play whole songs instead of 20 seconds
<MartijnVdS> when you pay the Â£0,99
<shauno> when you pay for them :)
<MartijnVdS> ^5 shauno
<foobarry> meh
<foobarry> TIL pixies released new stuff
<shauno> you must have missed their torrent giveaway a while back.  they mail me constantly now
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> bossanova was my first CD purchase. week it came out
<foobarry> surfer rosa purcahsed on cassette from woolworths
<foobarry> new stuff is too foo fighter type music
<foobarry> if you extraploate from their last stuff it make sense
<foobarry> recuitment agency phoned me. hello i'm from austin fraser.... "don't have time to talk to agencies ...bye"
<popey> foobarry: tried poor mans spotify?
<foobarry> ring ring...same number?
<foobarry> popey: that the russian one?
<foobarry> never haz my musics on it
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6920263/
<popey> python script, run it, type in artist name, choose track to play
<foobarry> pleer never has my stuff :(
<foobarry> enter to download :-0
<foobarry> mostly i only listen to classical at work
<foobarry> the only thing that helps me work rather than distracts
<foobarry> bit like inspector morse
<Guest57880> hmm
<Guest57880> absoutely bucketing down
<daftykins> http://www.raintoday.co.uk/
<daftykins> yeah quite the stripe across England atm
<mapps> ya
<mapps> u at work?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://buienradar.nl/
<daftykins> i work from home
<daftykins> nipped out to lunch with friends and got soaked though
<mapps> nice
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: nice & dry day here :)
<mapps> nice about home
<mapps> not getting soaked
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> i'm debating calling my ISP about my service
<daftykins> i'm getting dropouts =/
<daftykins> across two routers as well
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: ADSL?
<mapps> two routers why
<daftykins> VDSL2+
<daftykins> mapps: as in i tried a second to confirm it wasn't a fault with the hardware
<mapps> ahh
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> best way to get them to actually care
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: soggy phone wires somewhere in the street?
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: possible - the terminal my ~6m phone line connects to at the top of the underground pipe is war time \o/
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: When I worked a DSL provider, we got more calls when it had rained a lot
<daftykins> but my line stats showed sync rate of 50/20 originally
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: most about lost/worse sync speeds
<daftykins> now i'm seeing them fluctuate in real time and they're a lot down
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: would they just have to deal with it, or would they do anything?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Often it would go away when water levels dropped
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: if it didn't, we called KPN to replace the wires :)
<daftykins> thing is it coincided with them changing us from ATM to PPPoE too
<MartijnVdS> that could be it too then
<neuro> daftykins: my folks got infinity installed
<neuro> 40/10
<neuro> worked fine for weeks
<neuro> then suddenly dropped to 2/0.5 and constant drops
<daftykins> ouch
<MartijnVdS> Rats ate the wire?
<daftykins> culrpit?
<neuro> turned out the linebox that replaced the NTE5 had been badly wired (Kelly Comms *grrr*)
<neuro> openreach engineer was raging
<daftykins> ;/
<neuro> so you may want to check the linebox just in case :)
<daftykins> it won't have changed though 0o
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: something might have fallen off, or come loose
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: especially if it was badly wired
<neuro> could be a profile snafu on the dslam
<daftykins> well the service is 40/5 you see
<daftykins> i still get that
<daftykins> but the line sees 45/11 now whereas it had the capability of 50/20 prior
<neuro> huh
<daftykins> a friend suggests that if someone else got the service too near me since, crosstalk could've affected that
<neuro> you were getting faster rates than you were contracted for?
<daftykins> yes
<neuro> wtf
<daftykins> that's how all VDSL works
<daftykins> there's what your line can do, and what you're provisioned for
<MartijnVdS> neuro: ISPs do that, sync at max. speed possible, then limit on the other end (in the data centre)
<neuro> um no
<MartijnVdS> because why not
<neuro> no they don't
<MartijnVdS> neuro: they do here
<neuro> not here
<daftykins> they honestly do :)
<daftykins> most routers won't necessarily show it
<neuro> it sounds like you're misconfigured
<daftykins> lol no
<neuro> my lines can do 85
<daftykins> hmm dropbox folder is having a spaz
<daftykins> there we go
<neuro> i'm contracted for 79
<neuro> i get 70-75
<neuro> my folks are closer to their cab than me
 * MartijnVdS gets 100/100
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/z19rxzrcg9va6mq/vdsl.jpg
<daftykins> there y'go
<neuro> i don't know what their max sync speed can be, but they are contracted for 40/10 and they get 40/10
<neuro> but they're closer to their cab than i am to mine, so i'd assume they can sync faster
<daftykins> right but their line sync stats will likely be higher
<MartijnVdS> [   34.360000] eth0: link up (1000Mbps/Full duplex)
<neuro> MartijnVdS: yeah yeah whatever
<MartijnVdS> ^ Router connects to media converter (fibre to gig-E)
<MartijnVdS> *zoom*
<jussi> om nom nom, its in the oven :)
<neuro> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/139221898876609125979-mini.png
<mapps> well
<mapps> this isnt good
<mapps> FATAL ERROR: cannot bind daemon socket: Permission denied (protocol=UNIX)  *****
<mapps> cannot bind daemon socket: Permission denied (protocol=UNIX) *****
<mapps> check for and kill old daemon processes
<mapps> and remove UNIX socket file "/tmp/ufdbguardd-03977"
<MartijnVdS> unix sockets are easy -- permission denied = same as for files in that location :)
<mapps> hm?
<mapps> so what should i do..there's no old unix socket file in /tmp and the dameon isnt running
<mapps> every weekend whole groups of (often British) drunk and stoned guys walk in and out those premises with blue lights oblivious of the fact that those lights indicate the presence of (more or less) sexually transformed hookers.
<mapps> i heard this too
<mapps> but didn't see a single blue light (note..I was not seeking them out)
<daftykins> what are you reading O_O
<mapps> reddit
<daftykins> oh dear
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> did you know what MartijnVdS  meant daftykins  ? permission denied for what;/
<daftykins> if a process has no permission to bind a socket, it's either not running as root, or the socket is in use
<mapps> ah
<MartijnVdS> or the socket is owned by another user
<MartijnVdS> or group
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<mapps> how can i check if the socket is in use/owned by someone? I'm running ufdbguard as user ufdb
<daftykins> 0o
<MartijnVdS> mapps: netstat ?
<daftykins> well netstat -tuln would show if it's already actively being listened on
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/l3ccv2mflaptps9/IMG_20140212_154104.jpg
<daftykins> there's the phone lines to my immediate area coming out of the ground :>
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: the white balance is off on the left part :P
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/c3gmsn742yysy5g/IMG_20140212_154112.jpg
<daftykins> and there's the war-time box itself \o/
<daftykins> hah
<mapps> root@dimension:/tmp# netstat -tuln | grep 03977
<mapps> root@dimension:/tmp#
<daftykins> nope that's just the colour of my house
<mapps> nothingreturned
<mapps> what speed do you connect at daftykins ?
<daftykins> why leading zero? don't grep it
<mapps> oh
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/z19rxzrcg9va6mq/vdsl.jpg <--
<daftykins> line sync used to be 50/20
<mapps> didnt know what im looking for tbh thats why i grepped
<mapps> better than mine
<mapps> :(
<daftykins> well, the port you're trying to use :D
<daftykins> my service is only 40/5 though
<mapps> grmph il have to read up on unix sockets..not entirely sure it didnt mention a port in the config..it mentions using tcp and setting a port
<MartijnVdS> mapps: unix sockets don't have a "port"
<daftykins> a socket = ip:port
<MartijnVdS> mapps: unix sockets have a path
<daftykins> oh unix sockets. different thing then? :>
<MartijnVdS> AF_UNIX socket
<mapps> yea
<mapps> thats what i meant daftykins
<mapps> so i dont know what im looking for:D
<daftykins> *shrug*
<daftykins> reading time then yes :D
<mapps> :D
<MartijnVdS> http://matt.scharley.me/2012/03/19/debugging-application-interactions-with-socat.html
<daftykins> sorry, didn't mean to mislead
<MartijnVdS> strace
<MartijnVdS> could also help you determine what it's doing
<mapps> aha
<MartijnVdS> also, a solid grounding in C programming (or sockets in general) ;)
<mapps> it sounds like permissions though
<MartijnVdS> mapps: yes, it does. Check the path, check the file, check the uid of the running process(es)
<mapps> check for and kill old daemon processes
<mapps> and remove UNIX socket file "/tmp/ufdbguardd-03977"
<mapps>  - i assume /tmp? the process doesnt properly start because of this unix socket error
<mapps> it runs under ufdb though - so it must be to do with perms for /tmp
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: do you think it would be futile to talk to an ISP given the rain potential then? i'm seeing dropouts with and without rain really
<daftykins> but i bet they're swamped (excuse the pun) with jobs given the weather of late
<mapps> noise on the line?
<mapps> increase noise profile|?
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> noooo shauno!
<daftykins> :D
<selinuxium> Hi all  o/
<mapps> hi
<selinuxium> I have been in hiding for several weeks... Any news? :)
<daftykins> brown cow, the milk is in the farmhouse, over!
<foobarry> monitor envy in the office
<foobarry> Dell U2713HM looking nice
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> once you get more pixels you can never go back!
<foobarry> someone got a massive apple screen
<foobarry> then it all kicked off
<foobarry> need to check this isn't a glass screen
<daftykins> why-so?
<directhex> we have some u2713hm's
<directhex> i buy them when they're on sale
<foobarry> matt or gloss directhex ?
<directhex> it's a matt display
<foobarry> ta
<foobarry> +1
<foobarry> glossy display is like a mirror in office with fluoro lighting
<daftykins> yeah :(
<daftykins> or by windows
<daftykins> or even just seeing your own face/outline in them
<directhex> i don't understand when glossy is ever desirable
<mapps> well that didnt work
<shauno_> I can't stand matte :p
<mapps> tried jb'in my iphone 5.seemed to crash around 75%
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> i think they tend to be coatings that improve colour vividness
<foobarry> glossy looks nice in coffee shops and wtching video in the dark
<foobarry> i.e. on other people's machines
<shauno_> matte always seems to soften the picture.  it's like looking at a proper monitor through a thin sheet of vaseline
<foobarry> less eye strain after a 10hr day
<foobarry> 27 inch will give me considerable real esate improvement over the 23 incher
<neuro> f'nar
<dwatkins> I have a 27 inch display, it's great.
<foobarry> slight problem of wobbly monitor when i type though
<daftykins> wobbly? 0o
<shauno_> we've got a dell one that's a complete disaster.  it seems to be two panels side-by-side, and one of them goes wonky if it's left on too long
<codecowboy> I'm adding a couple of users to an ubuntu 12.04 server. I want them to be able to access a folder in another user's home directory and for that to be in their default path when they log in via ftp. Best / standard way to do this?
<neuro> give them their own home directory and put a symbolic link to the one you want them both to see in their own home directory
<foobarry> i'm sure some people get all the b grade dell kit
<foobarry> i have great experience of them for last 15 years or so
<codecowboy> neuro thanks
<shauno_> I like most of mine too.  just this one that appears to be two panels in one screen.  no sir I don't like it
<foobarry> which model
<shauno_> 3008wfp
<shauno_> hm, 'WFPt' apparently.  just had to hang my phone around the back to find it
<shauno_> it's big, pretty and expensive.  but doesn't like running all day
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * dwatkins checks the clock
 * daftykins sneakers under dwatkins's chair and ties his laces together
<dwatkins> sneaks?
<daftykins> oh dear
<daftykins> my fingers seem to be doing things i'm not intending a lot of late
<dwatkins> I never sit still, so you'll have difficulty ;)
<bigcalm> I think he's putting chocolate bars under your chair
<daftykins> or referring to US footwear D:
<daftykins> quick - give me more British channels to idle in!
<dwatkins> I got a tricycle once with chocolate bars on the handlebars, I rode it happily around the room and then realised the chocolate had all melted under my hands
<foobarry> ##marmite
<dwatkins> are you already on the #naughtystep, daftykins?
<daftykins> nope!
<daftykins> dwatkins: d'aww
<dwatkins> there's also #raspberrypi (you get kicked if you're idle, though) and #raspbian
<shauno_> seems like an odd policy?
<neuro> man, if i got kicked for being idle, i'd never be in any channels
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> agreed
<daftykins> it's pretty much what IRC is
<dwatkins> indeed, I was surprised
<neuro> well, all channels except #idlerpg
<neuro> where idling is kind of the point
<dwatkins> perhaps they just purge users every so often, not sure how it works
<neuro> the curling is pretty good this afternoon
<shauno_> I sit in a few channels where I can learn a lot without ever opening my mouthe.  idle doesn't mean I'm not here
<neuro> indeed
<daftykins> shauno_: just that you'll starve them of your charm
<shauno_> that's often for the best :)
<foobarry> idle can be a form of old school IM
<foobarry> someone pings you if they need
<daftykins> i find this use of 'ping' quite odd
<dwatkins> me too, people use it for 'send an e-mail'
<mapps> gah gotta go outside in 10mins
<foobarry> if you want to contact devs
<mapps> its raining :(
<daftykins> they do? D:
<daftykins> mmm i need more pasta from a shop a fair way away
<mapps> not fun
<daftykins> though raintoday.co.uk shows me it's patchy now
<daftykins> i'm in a brief window right now
<mapps> ya gotta be careful dont wanna get stuck out there
<mapps> its cold wet/windy
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> i'd be cycling too
<daftykins> high potential for wet-bum syndrome
<mapps> hm
<mapps> gonna try qwebirc
<mapps> wanna be able to irc at work else time goes SLOW
<directhex> qwebirc is good!
<directhex> i have it deployed
<mapps> cool
<mapps> im just lookng at it now
<mapps> seems simply cp config.py.example to config.py edit then run compile.py or somethng
<mapps> and job done
<directhex> hardcodes quakenet in a few places, e.g. assumes Q for services
<mapps> im gonna use a reverse proxy though so i can access http://94.193.78.219/qweb/ rather than having to forward the port it uses
<mapps> er proxypass in apache even not a reverse one
<directhex> i am also using reverse proxy
<directhex> let me find my settings
<mapps> :D
<mapps> i tried kiwiirc yesterday
<mapps> but couldnt get it to work..no errors..just didnt seem to do anything..wjhich makes it hard to debug
<directhex>   ProxyPass / http://localhost:9090/
<directhex>   ProxyPassReverse / http://localhost:9090/
<directhex>   ProxyRequests Off
<directhex> that's about it
<mapps> yea need reequests off so people cant use it as a proxy iirc
<mapps> but i dunno if proxypass reverse is deff needed? isnt that so the returned headers are localhost:9090 or something
<directhex> dunno. if stuff works, you don't poke it too hard in case it stops working
<mapps> yea:)
<mapps> hmm wonder if yahoo will say wind speed
<mapps> i can hear it banging against my doors heh
<mapps> Precipitation: 60%
<mapps> Humidity: 71%
<mapps> Wind: 41 mph
<mapps> TemperaturePrecipitationWind
<mapps> i tought it would be faster winds
<directhex> wind is slow, but carrying hammers
<shauno_> depends how they're measuring it I guess; running average? peak gust?
<mapps> certainly sounds loud
<directhex> *slam*
<mapps> yea
<mapps> heh
<mapps> hate it when its like this..might get blown in the canal
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> XD
<mapps> that wouldnt be so fun
<daftykins> * mapps is now known as wetmapps
<mapps> :(
<bigcalm> UPS is clicking every few seconds
<bigcalm> Not a fun day for anybody really
<mapps> hm looks like qwebirc is done
<mapps> ooh
<mapps> and its working
<mapps> :)
<mapps> back in 10mins
<shauno_> 3g is not being nice today.  ~1500ms to google
<daftykins> D:
<shauno_> and 5000ms to my ssh host.  I wonder what it takes for ssh to give up on the network and try yodelling instead
<MartijnVdS> shauno_: about 924.6 seconds - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15484906/change-the-tcp-timeout-for-a-linux-network-device
<MooDoo> evening all, any one had keyboard layout issues with 13.10 ubuntu layout is uk, but " and @ are still us format?
<MooDoo> how bizarre add english US to the text entry section and it's all ok :S
<shauno_> are there multiple choices for which UK?
<shauno_> 'variant' tab I think
<MooDoo> shauno_: it's ok fixed it, had english uk installed english us and it started working oh well :D
<Azelphur> hey folks, trying to mount a SMB share but mount -a says "Unable to find suitable address."
<Azelphur>  //azelphur-server/share  /media/azelphur-share  cifs  guest,uid=1000,iocharset=utf8  0  0
<Azelphur> is what I have in fstab
<MartijnVdS> does it work if you mount by hand?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haven't tried, but amusingly I think I found the problem, it's not mounts fault
<Azelphur> this is weird, I have a KVM virtual machine with address 192.168.1.12, and the host has IP 192.168.1.11, and the KVM can't ping the host
<Azelphur> that's why the share isn't working
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: are the IPs on the same network?
<MartijnVdS> i.e. is the virtual device bridged with the ethernet device?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yup, my PC can talk to the KVM no problem
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: sure, you can talk to *kvm*, but can you talk to the *guest*
<Azelphur> and yea, it's bridged with its own IP in the networking (even has functional port forwards and such)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: talking to kvm is easy (virsh/vnc)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yes I can talk to the guest, that's what I meant
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: then how can't you ping it?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: because I can only ssh from a machine that isn't the host.
<Azelphur> and in this case, I'm trying to get the guest and the host to talk to each other
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: can you pastebin the output of "ip addr" and "brctl show" on the host?
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/hkUYQMu6
<MartijnVdS> em1?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, it's just an ethernet port
<Azelphur> I have no idea why it gets called em1.
<MartijnVdS> shouldn't that be "eth0"?
<MartijnVdS> anyway
<MartijnVdS> the bridge seems emtpy
<MartijnVdS> I don't know macvtap
<MartijnVdS> my kvm vm's have "vnet0" interfaces that get attached to a bridge
<Azelphur> well the guest has full internet access, I can access it from both inside and outside my LAN without issues
<MartijnVdS> ah.. http://virt.kernelnewbies.org/MacVTap
<MartijnVdS> I have *no* idea how that works
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: oh hey, my Source Mode is apparently VEPA
<Azelphur> and bridge is an option
<Azelphur> I guess I should try changing that?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: VEPA? What's that? How did you set it?
<Azelphur> I'm using Virtual Machine Manager, gui frontend to libvirt
<Azelphur> it's an option in the dropdown
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I use that too
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I've just found it in mine
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: what works for me:
<Azelphur> is yours set to VEPA or bridge?
<MartijnVdS> bridge :)
<Azelphur> aha
<Azelphur> maybe that's why
<MartijnVdS> anyway, for me this works:
<MartijnVdS> /etc/network/interfaces: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6921546/
<MartijnVdS> then I get the option "Host device vnet0 (Bridge br0)" in the menu (VM turned off, NIC page)
<Azelphur> hmm
<Azelphur> I made that change to my /etc/network/interfaces, and now my only option for virtual network interface is Direct em1
<MartijnVdS> yes! that one!
<Azelphur> but that's not a bridge?
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> you may need to ifup -a
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/WBih8xPb
<MartijnVdS> and restart network-manager and/or libvirt-bin
<Azelphur> don't have network-manager since it's a server
<MartijnVdS> ok, that helps :)
<MartijnVdS> but I have "Source device: " and then several options
<MartijnVdS> one is "Virtual network 'default' (virbr0), then 2 "Host device" options, eth0 and lo
<Azelphur> hmm, I restarted libvirt and now I can't connect to libvirt any more at all
<MartijnVdS> weird!
<Azelphur> looks like it's not starting properly
<MartijnVdS> works fine here.. did you put "em1" in the bridge config in /etc/network/interfaces?
<Azelphur> yup, see above
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: are you in the right group to be able to connect to virt-manager?
<MartijnVdS> anything in the log why it's not starting?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/cjz2DxZv
<Azelphur> it doesn't sound like a happy bunny
<MartijnVdS> dbus isn't started
<Azelphur> oh hey I just started dbus and it worked...I guess dbus crashed or something
<Azelphur> still only have source device: direct em1 as an option though
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: but that doesn't say "macvlan" anymore does it?
<Azelphur> it doesn't, it's not even a dropdown any more
<Azelphur> just Source device: Direct 'im1'
<Azelphur> em1*
<MartijnVdS> try it :)
<Azelphur> Error starting domain: error creating macvtap type of interface attach to em1: Device or resource busy
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: did you ifup -a ?
<MartijnVdS> after editing /etc/network/interfaces?
<MartijnVdS> is there still an IP on em0?
<Azelphur> I did, yup
<MartijnVdS> there shuold not be an IP on em1
<Azelphur> no ip on em1
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6921634/
 * MartijnVdS is confused now
<MartijnVdS> probably should ask an expert ;)
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> hopefully one will show up
<MartijnVdS> maybe it;s because I'm running trusty?
<MartijnVdS> that it's different?
 * Azelphur shrugs
<maps|work> heylo
<maps|work> blowing a gale outside still..and the stupid window jdoesnt shut fully so get a draft :(
<shauno_> hah, I'm not the only one.  I have a kitchen towel jammed in one of mine
<maps|work> ugh mozzila going to sell ads in ffox
<maps|work> you played flappy bird? read yesterday the author was getting 50k usd/day in ad revenue!!
<GingerDog> and that he'd pulled the app(s) and the ones in the play store are knockoffs with spam/crap in them
<GingerDog> (unless he's re-enabled them).
<maps|work> ya
<maps|work> thats true
<maps|work> heard he pulled em..dunno why
<GingerDog> i suspect because the support load was too high.
<maps|work> he was raking it in..and yea thats the thing with he droid store..loadsa fakes eh
<GingerDog> and he's still raking it in
<shauno_> I Think the ff ads are overblown, to be honest
<GingerDog> existing users will still be able to use htem etc.
<GingerDog> i saw something earlier (perhaps lwn.net) about it
<GingerDog> i'm not fussed as i'm not a FF user
<GingerDog> but I'd guess it's to give them some protection against google being their only source of revenue?
<shauno_> right
<shauno_> and it's pretty low-key; they're selling spots on thumbnail page of recent sites
<maps|work> i like ffox but i also like opera..seem to be alone in both of those;p
<shauno_> so instead of starting blank, it starts prepopulated.  and ask you use it they're going to disappear quickly
<GingerDog> similar to the EverythingMe android launcher (who Mozilla are doing a deal with too)
<maps|work> http://gizmodo.com/watch-two-crazy-people-climb-the-worlds-second-tallest-1521382204
<maps|work> ;p;
<maps|work> think il pass
<GingerDog> (EverythingMe has 'sponsored' suggestions when you go into folders)
<GingerDog> it's an interesting idea
<shauno_> this is just pre-populating the recents though.  so if you use ff for more than 5 minutes they'll be replaced with real data
<maps|work> standing on the edge looking over lol i dont think id wanna do that with safety gear
<maps|work> feel sick watching it LOL
<shauno_> I guess they trust their equipment by now :)
<maps|work> it looks like they have no supports or anything
<maps|work> when you see them stabding and lean over ...ugh god id be sick lol
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wxnfxxijv8ywp5f/IMG-20140212-WA0000.jpg
<daftykins> oooh yes.
<diddledan> I need chocolate
<diddledan> daftykins: that had better be entirely consumed in 30 minutes time
<diddledan> :-p
 * diddledan is a chocolate whore
<diddledan> I'm not even sure what the phrase means but I'm it
<diddledan> I can consume a large toblerone in about an hour
<daftykins> 30 minutes?
<daftykins> i'm down to under half since i posted
<daftykins> I HAVE A PROBLEM :'(
<diddledan> well done! :-p
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-13
<diddledan> joy in IT departments the world over yesterday: http://www.welivesecurity.com/2014/02/12/critical-internet-explorer-flaws-microsoft/
<daftykins> mm-hmm
<daftykins> was trying to plead with one client yesterday, once again, to please stop running IE occasionally for other sites
<daftykins> yeeeeeeeeeears ago they'd learnt that their online banking didn't work with FF 3 or whatever we were on back then and they maintained the approach of not even trying it since
<daftykins> so occasionally i see IE open with stuff in there and cringe
<daftykins> i've been debating disallowing access
<MooDoo> morning all
<jussi> morning MooDoo
 * jussi hands MooDoo the (now) regular cup of tea
<MooDoo> jussi: I'm ok thanks, got a costa on the way to work this morning :D
<MooDoo> but thank you
<jussi> "he's a lumberjack and he's ok..."
<MooDoo> I don't hang around in bars until Friday ;)
<jussi> hehe
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> yay I'm not alone :d
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you're never alone!
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYg_lbXYiwU)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: that better not be a rick roll...  :P
<MartijnVdS> jussi: it's not. It's newer than that!
<jussi> :D
<jussi> MooDoo: what have you done!!!!!!!!! now I felt the need to watch this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg
<MartijnVdS> jussi: If you're ever hunting bugs, try this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ
<jussi> ahh, its just for laughs music!!! :P
<MooDoo> Don't you think I'm stupid, I'm not clicking on any youtube links so there :p
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: but we're never going to give you up!
<MooDoo> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: or let you down
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: make me turn around?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: or desert you
<MooDoo> grrrrrr ;)
<jussi> hahaha
<jussi> MooDoo: to add insult to injury, you just lost the game... :P
<MooDoo> darn it
<MartijnVdS> jussi: you're a bad person ;)
<diddledan> oh ffs, jussi
<diddledan> what did you have to go and do that for?!
 * diddledan resets his score chart
<diplo> Morning all
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> morning diplo
<diplo> How are we all this morning?
<MooDoo> morning morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Totally bloody mad: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/12/nhs_microsoft_win_xp_extended_support/ 1million WinXP pcs in the NHS
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: stupid, silly. they should have actually thought about this earlier...
<MooDoo> off to buy a new wireless router today
<jussi> MooDoo: which one do you have your eye on?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: buy an OpenWRT-capable one! :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: they're so much more usefuls!
<jussi> MartijnVdS: ++
<MooDoo> was looking at a dual band asus
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I'd go for a TP-Link -- I've had bad experiences with the Broadcom chips used by Asus
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: (TP-Link uses Atheros)
<jussi> I still have an oldf dd-wrt capable buffalo... it still works :D
<MartijnVdS> they just merged TL-WDR4900 support this week (in trunk)
<MartijnVdS> I have a 4300 at home, it's great
<jussi> MooDoo: curiousity, what is your budget?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: dd-wrt is shady, with its maybe-not-gpl-compliant bits and "READ THE DOCS" forum attitudes
<jussi> MartijnVdS: it works for me. :)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: instead of helping, it's "Search the docs", "Read the peacock thread", etc.
<jussi> (but you are correct of course)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: sure, but it could work better ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/tl-wdr4900
<JamesTai1> Good morning all; happy Get a Different Name Day! :-D
<popey> awww
<popey> hoped you'd keep that nickname
<JamesTait> See what I did there? ;)
<Mootail> everone should be first part of nick tail ;)
<popey> just ate juiciest orange at my desk
<popey> laptop smells nice now
<popey> bit sticky tho
<jussi> popey: I want an orange!
<popey> come to canonical hq
<popey> we have lots
<popey> well, one less now.
<jussi> bit far...
<popey> sucks to be you
<jussi> popey: it still exists... for now :P
 * jussi giggles at http://twitpic.com/dvb1e0
<MartijnVdS> that's is how the Hoth delegation got disqualified
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> What's happening kids?
<MartijnVdS> KateShortForBob: wait.. you're "Kate", short for "Bob"?
<KateShortForBob> Yes, that's right.
<MartijnVdS> ...
<KateShortForBob> http://youtu.be/BLTR8qYWJbQ
<jussi> "Bob the builder...."
<dwatkins> not Kate the builder...
<daubers> Morning
<dwatkins> ello daubers
 * daubers gave in and bought photoshop
<dwatkins> boxed or subscription, daubers?
<daubers> subscription
<daubers> wanted to see what all the fuss was about
<dwatkins> it's certainly an interesting business model
<daubers> I have lots of end userswhinging about everything moving to the cloud, so wanted to see
 * awilkins knew a girl who was Bob short for Helena.
 * daubers knows a guy who is Time, short for Richard
<daubers> Tim even
<daubers> stupid apple keyboards
<MartijnVdS>  you'd think Apple keyboard would be able to type "Tim" :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: It autocorrects to Steve
<dvrr> good morning all
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<MartijnVdS> so it's Steve, short for Tim?
<selinuxium> popey, now I want an orange...
<jussi> "popey, Orange King..."
<jussi> :P
<jussi> King Popey of Orange!
<jussi> :D
<selinuxium> popey == 'Man from Delmonte'
<BigRedS> I *knew* I recognised him from somewhere!
<jussi> haha
<MartijnVdS> jussi: look up William III ;)
<selinuxium> Hey BigRedS :)
<BigRedS> goood morning selinuxium !
<BigRedS> how's things?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: Im quite aware of King billy
<awilkins> I've never heard him say "Yes" though
<BigRedS> he does have _very_ high standards
<awilkins> Although  I suppose you don't in the advert either
<jussi> MartijnVdS: you keep forgetting my dutch heritage
<BigRedS> maybe your oranges just aren't good enough
<selinuxium> BigRedS, All good thank you. Your good self?
<BigRedS> yeah, not bad at all. today's a work-from-home day so I'm starting slowly :)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: Ah yes, it's probably because of your name :)
<awilkins> Don't think that ad would play very well these days... white guy visits plantation and deigns to approve of the produce of honest hardworking latinos.
<BigRedS> haha
<selinuxium> BigRedS, nice... Dressing gown day...
<jussi> MartijnVdS: hehe, my last name is Schultink ;)
<BigRedS> selinuxium yeah, exactly :)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: and yes, its true, I cannot pronounce it correctly...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: That looks Dutch enough :)
<selinuxium> Liek dress down day with added Xbox (insert game station of choice)
<awilkins> "The man from Del Monte - he's a pawn of the oppressor! Make an effigy of his silly white suit and burn it on the steps of Corporate HQ!!"
<awilkins> "His bones fertilize our orange grove! How'd you like them grapefruit!"
<brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<jussi> dammit, forgot about my tea water on the stove, boiled ht ekettle dry :/
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<MartijnVdS> jussi: and this is why we invented the electric kettle
<popey> \o/ 240V
<diddledan> yawn
<kakemo> sup guys, wich os ? trololo
<MooDoo> well that was brief lol
<jussi> MooDoo: drive by trolling ? :P
<jussi> MartijnVdS: technically, this is an electric kettle... (We have an electric stove... therefore... :P)
<MooDoo> jussi: cool, love that :S
<dwatkins> I bet the hob doesn't have a cut-off, though ;)
<dwatkins> I've left my hob on over night before with nothing on it.
<MooDoo> my wife forgets the gas oven is on occasionally lol
<dwatkins> I always check the [gas] hob & oven, tap, fridge and pet cage when I leave home now - I've managed to leave each of them on or open in the past.
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> JamesTait: needs to step away from the blackadder boxset
<foobarry> "I don?t think I?m asking for allot after all you cant loose! " - quote from email from a recruitment agency
<foobarry> go back to school kiddo.
<MartijnVdS> wow
<diddledan> foobarry: makes you wonder about their competence at finding suitable work for you when they can't even proof-read their own email
<foobarry> also this is after i emailed their data protection people to take me off their db
<foobarry> for spamming me 3x a day with calls and emails
<foobarry> i don't even hire contractors
<diddledan> >.<
<foobarry> austin fraser if anyone wants to know.
<foobarry> avoid.
<dwatkins> foobarry: that reads like some of the spam I get.
<foobarry> "Can you please tell me what? Do I have to do to land a shot at working with you!"
<foobarry> so much fail in one sentence
<MartijnVdS> "Write proper English sentences."
<MooDoo> I wish people would talk proper like what I does
<dwatkins> I'd send back a mail with this image in it (if this were sent to me personally): http://ckrickett.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/alot01.png
<foobarry> recruiters and estate agents are low forms of life
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: The Original: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.nl/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
<foobarry> and other jobs where they wear too much aftershave
<dwatkins> thanks MartijnVdS - I wasn't sure where it originated from
<foobarry> good blog it is too
<foobarry> i liked the dinosaur cape one
<MartijnVdS> I have her book :)
<dwatkins> reminds me of The Oatmeal and 27B/6
<jussi> damn, and all this time I thought an Alot had the first name of gord! :D
<foobarry> it does
<foobarry> how do you define groups in sudoers file that are not /etc/group or ldap group, but local to the file?
<popey> join #ubuntu-touch-meeting
<popey> BAH!
<foobarry> moo
<jussi> Tea anyone?
<diddledan> please
 * jussi puts a brew on
<dwatkins> yes, tea
 * bigcalm returns with instant coffee due to being too lazy to make a brew
<bigcalm> I can't bring myself to use instant tea at home
<foobarry> what is instant tea?
<foobarry> teabags?
<diddledan> teabag in the cup is instant enough
<diddledan> don't need dehydrated granules
<bigcalm> I'll have some loose leafed tea after lunch maybe
<jussi> Enable passive gathering of performance-related metrics and events and provide the option to view this data in a graphical fashion. To view data, visit chrome://performance. #performance-monitor-gathering
<jussi> that is cool, I didnt know you could do that :)
<MooDoo> http://sietch-tabr.tumblr.com/post/76220460770/pgp-key-signing-party-in-london-march-25th-2014
<MooDoo> if anyone is interested
<jussi> stupid company/sysadmin/web people....
<jussi> seriously, how hard is it to enable the little thing to not *require* the www ?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: depends on how you wrote it
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hmmm :)
<MooDoo> jussi: that's dns
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: that's a tuesday :(
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: if it was a Friday I'd do it
<bigcalm> I recall that there was an android app that allowed one to enable/disable various things at different times of the day. Does anybody remember such an app?
<brobostigon> my pebble is predicting snow, has it gone mad,
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: tasker?
<bigcalm> I really need to disable Skype outside of office hours
<brobostigon> tasker? :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta, I'll have a look
<bigcalm> I'm guessing that it's worth the Â£2.99
 * bigcalm giggles at Boris Johnson
<SuperMatt> at or with?
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: at, always at
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/433947604976553984
<SuperMatt> oh god
<SuperMatt> why did this happen to us?
<SuperMatt> WHY?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Â£2,99? it's â¬2,99 here :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: democracy/voters?
<SuperMatt> democray is only a good idea if the voters are actually intelligent
<SuperMatt> I'm going to become a dictator and resolve that problem
<foobarry> SuperMatt: people want politicians who make them laugh
<MartijnVdS> democray-cray
<SuperMatt> very apt
<dwatkins> It's demo-sgi now.
<foobarry> i prefer someone who plays the buffoon but it obv intelligent vs an unwitting buffoon
<SuperMatt> foobarry: so not borris then?
<foobarry> which bit don't you think describes him?
<SuperMatt> unwitting buffoon
<foobarry> unwitting buffoon is nigel farage climbing out of the plane, or that milliband with his schoolboy whiney voice
<foobarry> and his wallace and gromit face
<foobarry> its all an act with BJ
<jussi> foobarry: politicians that make people laugh... like the mayor of the place that mum and dad live... http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/entrepreneur-darryn-lyons-declared-geelong-mayor-20131125-2y5c1.html
<MartijnVdS> jussi: he even looks a bit like boris?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: heheh
<foobarry> gary glitter?
<jussi> btw, does anyone know, or feel like writing an extension that automatically disables autoplay videos? ANNOYING!
<MartijnVdS> jussi: http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57536917-285/enable-click-to-play-for-chrome-plug-ins/
<jussi> MartijnVdS: hrm, Im aware of that, it goes a little too far. then I need to click 2x on everything I want to see...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: nah just the flash bits (which is almost nothing these days)
<shauno> gotta love sites that make it too easy.  "hm, that seems too good to be true.  what's the contact address?  buckingham palace!"
<MartijnVdS> shauno: hey, that's my TV's address for FreeSet ;)
<MartijnVdS> Sat*
<shauno> just makes it a little easier when you're trying to figure out if something's a scam :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: sure but my TV doesn't care, it just wants a postcode to figure out which version of BBC1/2/ITV to show me
<brobostigon> is it different to no10 postcode?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: likely
<brobostigon> ok,
<MartijnVdS> SW1A 2AA (10ds) vs SW1A 1AA (Palace)
<shauno> the postcode on their site seems to be wrong, it's a lincoln one
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, :)
<foobarry> i prefer the virgin media postcode
<dwatkins> 0181 811 8181
<bigcalm> Going Live?
<bigcalm> It was from a children's Saturday morning programme in the 90s. Can't remember which one though
<bigcalm> 80s even
<bigcalm> Live and Kicking
<bigcalm> Gah
<bigcalm> You made me google it with your silence
<foobarry> 0800 11 11
<awilkins> If you called the wrong number you got Gordon the Gopher heavy breathing at you
<awilkins> How he's not been targetted by operation Yewtree I've no idea
<dwatkins> sorry bigcalm, yes, Saturday morning TV, probably Going Live (as I don't quite remember Swap Shop)
<dwatkins> oh, Live and Kicking, yeah - the one with Phillip Schofield.
<czajkowski> AlanBell: care to give a talk/demo http://www.meetup.com/London-MongoDB-User-Group/events/165517062/
<Guest57934> uh
<Guest57934> shees
<mapps> watching jude judy..love the show
<davmor2> mapps: is that like the Beatles version of judge judy?
<brobostigon> ok, question, is it strange, on FB when people in ther photo section of their profile, have no photos but filles albums?
<brobostigon> filled*
<mapps> er jiudge judy i meant;p
<mapps> damnit
<mapps> Judge
<mapps> she earns an absolute fortune for it too
<mapps> not sure what you mean brobostigon ?
<mapps> why woud that be strange
<brobostigon> mapps: ok, open one of your friends profiles in android using the app, then go to photos, then you will get two subsections, photos and albums, photos is empty however albums has several albums with photos inside them.
<mapps> that is odd
<mapps> i cant test it i dont use facebook
<brobostigon> ok,
<bigcalm> I can't test it as I don't trust the app
<bigcalm> brobostigon: are you seeing this for all of your friends' profiles?
<brobostigon> bigcalm: no.
<brobostigon> bigcalm: presumably the same applies when you use the website.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: maybe 'photos' is for images with the person tagged in them
<brobostigon> let me try that.
<AlanBell> czajkowski: ooh that would be fun :)
<NET||abuse> hi folks
<NET||abuse> I'm having a little trouble with my new lappy, got the insane xps15 9530.. big ass 3200 resoltion
<NET||abuse> so thought i'd go for freedom hating binary driver, since the dell community article says he got it working ok
<NET||abuse> anyway, has anyone gotten the 331 drivers working on a M nvidia chip?
<NET||abuse> i tried on my soon to be given back to old job laptop, and had similar issue as I'm having with new xps now
<daftykins> is it an nvidia optimus setup then?
<NET||abuse> when i boot, the lightdm comes up but in really really low res. when i login, i get a usual apport or system there was a bug dialog, but unity doesn't come up, just a black screen with a mouse pointer
<NET||abuse> daftykins: yeh, but I was hoping to avoid primus/bumblebee
<daftykins> you can't use the nvidia chip directly
<daftykins> you have to unfortunately
<NET||abuse> on  my present machine i turn off optimus in the bios and just run on the nvidia card
<daftykins> does that one have the same settings?
<daftykins> i've never seen one that offers that
<NET||abuse> but when i tried 331 driver got the same effect, so i'm stuck on 319,
<NET||abuse> the dell 6430 that is my old work laptop had the option
<NET||abuse> just turn off optimus and it's on by default, just used the nvidia binary drvier and ti was all good
<daftykins> but the XPS, no option?
<NET||abuse> i guess i have to use the edgers/ppa stuff..
<NET||abuse> yeh, on XPS I can't find an optino in the bios. was the first thing i went looking for :(
<daftykins> i really don't think that's going to help you
<daftykins> http://askubuntu.com/questions/389297/bumblebee-setup-on-dell-xps-15-9530-for-dual-monitors-in-ubuntu-13-10
<daftykins> at least someone's done all the hard work already ;)
<NET||abuse> daftykins: thank, i think i'll just have to walk through that and do it.
<NET||abuse> cheers
<daftykins> np :)
<mapps> brrr
<mapps> i can just tell it's gong to be cold outside
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> i just received my laser pointer for the cat today!
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/li4hghobjk94zj3/VID_20140213_172119.mp4
<mapps> ;]
<dwatkins> daftykins: hexcellent. A friend of mine informed me that laser pointers can be bad for cats (possibly when they're just kittens) - something to do with eye damage, I'm not sure I believe it, though.
<daftykins> dwatkins: yarr - i'm avoiding getting it near her eyes indeed. this'uns 6-8 years or so though :)
<dwatkins> I *think* I was told my friend believes it's a problem even if the light is reflected, that's the part I had trouble believing.
<daftykins> i definitely see reflections bouncing off surfaces of the laser, it looks pretty dull by then though
<dwatkins> yeah, I can't see that doing any damage to anything's eyes
<dwatkins> not with a laser pointer, unless you replaced the light source with the one from a CD burner etc.
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> lets see what this thing reads
<daftykins> < 1 mW, 650nm +/- 10
<daftykins> Class II :>
<dwatkins> I want a laser from these guys: https://twitter.com/wickedlasers/status/433638042943754240/photo/1
<dwatkins> obviously I would only use it for good
<dwatkins> honest
<daftykins> did you read about how many pilots are getting messed up by people with laser gadgets?
<daftykins> seemed weird to me why anyone would be so reckless
<MartijnVdS> you'd think they'd have fixed cockpit windows by now
<daftykins> yeah
<dwatkins> I imagine they can't, since it would result in visibility issues.
<daftykins> a mate is studying to be an aeronautical engineer actually, may be worth asking
<dwatkins> There used to be a nightclub in Guildford which had huge lights on the roof, they got told off by the authorities because they were visible from the air very well.
<daftykins> hehe
<BigRedS> I thought the laser issues were specifically helicopters with glass floors?
<shauno> they're pretty terrible for most aircraft
<BigRedS> ah right, refracting off the cockpit glass?
<BigRedS> or through, rather
<daftykins> people are shining them at planes coming into land
<diddledan> I think people specifically shine them at aircraft because they've been told it's bad
<diddledan> catch 22
<shauno> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtKSdy2KAW4 gets boring quickly, but gives you a good idea
<NET||abuse> ok, got 331 and bumblebee runing, optirun glxspheres64 runs 260fps,, primus glxshperes64 runs at 59/60 fps, is that normal?
<daftykins> latter sounds vsync bound
<NET||abuse> is primus running intel or something?
<daftykins> who knows - contact that guy with the guide to ask what performance he got
<mapps> i was reading about that just yesterday people shining lasers at aircrafts
<mapps> pretty stupid really
<daftykins> *nod*
<shauno> I think stupid's a bit of an understatement.  that gives people the impression they're being a nuisance, rather than putting lives at risk
<daftykins> agreed
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> they say it could get worse
<mapps> the wind and rain etc
<shauno> it'd be nice if can stay like this for tomorrow
<mapps> where are you
<shauno> west coast of ireland
<shauno> I just don't fancy flying ryanair in yesterday's winds.  but today's been relatively mild
<diddledan> shauno: friday is supposed to be worse than yesterday
<shauno> :/  yesterday was bad enough that I'm sat here sewing buttons back on
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> it ripped buttons off?
<shauno> my jacket wasn't up to it  heh
<diddledan> oh dear
<diddledan> are you sure it's wise to use the same jacket again?
<diddledan> I mean if it failed once, the chances are it'll fail again
<diddledan> it's like winning the lotto - you're more likely to do it once you've won once already
<shauno> not entirely sure that last part's true
<diddledan> I don't remember where I heard it. maybe I invented it :-p
<diddledan> I'm good at thinking random things and then remembering about them later and believing they're bona fide facts
<shauno> well I figure the lottery is stateless.  nothing in one draw should impact another.  the only difference would be if winning once meant you bought a lot more tickets in the future
<daftykins> in which case you'd deserve a trout slap for greed!
<shauno> or stupidity ;)  I'd imagine in that position you should be thinking about real investments
<diddledan> shauno: I think it's statistically rather than probability-wise
<shauno> well, for tonight's amusement .. the first time I've used a clothes iron since I was 12
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0bgswcuxaah8y2p/IMG_20130909_173557.jpg
<daftykins> there's a neighbour cat at my window
<daftykins> http://guernseypress.com/news/2014/02/11/town-cat-dillon-dies-after-being-washed-into-harbour/
<daftykins> they're the same right?
<popey> looks very similar!
<popey> hard to tell, but very
<shauno> the one in the news appears to own a lot more bling
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> my cat's been fighting with a neighbour cat out the back of my place
<daftykins> on that very roof
<daftykins> but i've not seen it
<daftykins> apparently the owner tried to keep him indoors, but he was a free spirit
<daftykins> "these walls can't hold meeeeee!"
<popey> colin looks cold
<popey> he's shivvering
<daftykins> is that your feline?
<popey> no
<Monotoko> don't suppose anyone here is any good with DoS attacks?
<Monotoko> over an NTP daemon that doesn't exist...
<daftykins> that's a pretty bold claim
<jpds> Monotoko: You mean https://blog.cloudflare.com/technical-details-behind-a-400gbps-ntp-amplification-ddos-attack ?
<daftykins> why not provide some more detail
<Monotoko> tcpdump is showing the NTP traffic coming in
<Monotoko> hang
<Monotoko> on
<jpds> hanging
<jpds> on
<jpds> sir
<jpds> standing
<jpds> by
<jpds> STOP.
<Monotoko> sorry :P
<Monotoko> http://pastebin.com/8tJeEXEB
<jpds> Monotoko: Check the link.
<jpds> Welcome to 2014.
<Monotoko> jpds, so how do I stop them? Why is my server even saying hello to them?
<Monotoko> I've dropped everything from port 123 in UDP...
<Monotoko> http://pastebin.com/shTP0gni
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/AccessRestrictions
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: it has a "wizard" structure to help you decide
<MartijnVdS> http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Main/SecurityNotice#DRDoS_Amplification_Attack_using also has some mitigations
<MartijnVdS> (for the big reflection attacks)
<Monotoko> NTP isn't running, that's what's confusing me
<MartijnVdS> ah! is your firewall set to REJECT unwanted UDP, instead of DROPping it?
<MartijnVdS> (iptables) -- REJECT sends an ICMP packet back, DROP does not
<Monotoko> it's dropping... should it be rejecting?
<MartijnVdS> no, drop is good
<MartijnVdS> also, if it's dropping, it should not be sending packets back
<MartijnVdS> If they're using NTP to DDOS you, your best bet is to ask your ISP to block inbound NTP packets
<MartijnVdS> i.e. what's the exact problem? Are you the target of a DDOS, or part of the source?
<Monotoko> the exact problem is that the server is slowing to a crawl when all this traffic is coming in...
<MartijnVdS> but if you're dropping the traffic, it's an "inbound" problem, and you should filter at the router
<Monotoko> how do you mean, inbound problem?
<shauno> you're receiving a lot more packets than you're able to deal with.  obvious answer is to stop receiving them.  best method at your disposal is to implement this upstream
<shauno> blocking them on your machine just defines what you do once you've received them, not *whether* you receive them
<shauno> (I'd also talk to your provider, because its in their best interest to stop this as far upstream as possible too)
<diddledan> I got accused of DDoSing someone the other day
<diddledan> they didn't consider that perchance the source IPs might be spoofed
<jpds> diddledan: Shouldn't have blocked all the queues at the post office.
<diddledan> shock horror, UDP doesn't create a connection?!
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> amazeballs
<diddledan> I think the guy who reported it was a mormon
<jpds> To be fair, it is a universal dogging of a pigeon.
<MartijnVdS> but these NTP reflection attacks wouldn't be possible if people just turned on proper reverse path filtering on their networks
<MartijnVdS> s/people/ISPs
<MartijnVdS> because then you couldn't spoof UDP source addresses
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: yeah but then the internet would work
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: sounds like a plan then :)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: we can't fix things, now, can we?!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I don't know, is it allowed by the porn filter people?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: probably not. other government departments (read: gchq) require the ability to remain
<diddledan> gchq = general communications hijacking and quiescence
<MartijnVdS> Sssh!
<diddledan> am I on a watchlist now?
<diddledan> dammit, I don't want to be a political dissident
<diddledan> damn you government!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: you were never off it
<diddledan> oh dear
<MartijnVdS> And people who talk about the porn filter aren't "political" dissidents, if you know what I mean
<jpds> http://newsthump.com/2011/02/23/jacqui-smith-still-pretending-she-knows-nothing-about-pornography/
<diddledan> lol @ "losing" the debauched stuff - I'm betting she hid it under the bed for "playtime" with the cleaner
<jpds> diddledan: No, the key here is the husband.
<diddledan> haha @ the radio 5 spokes person
<diddledan> âWeâve got some exciting programmes coming up with more MPs pretending not to know about stuff, definitely.â
<mapps> heylo
<neuro> i need to find interesting things to do with my new roku
<chamb> Anyone here regularly use ubuntu on a netbook?
<neuro> chamb: i did
<neuro> it was awful
<chamb> fair enough that was my next question
<neuro> then again, i find netbooks awful under most conditions
<neuro> ubuntu = awful
<neuro> OS X = awful
<neuro> windows = especially awful
 * jpds pictures neuro as grumpy cat.
<chamb> I only use it for coding and reading docs, but it frequently grinds to a halt
<neuro> jpds: i just don't like netbooks
<chamb> I was going to ask whether anyone had put an SSD in one and had a better experience
<neuro> show me a really nice tablet or notebook, i'll get interested
<chamb> Meh I can't afford a tablet or notebook
<jpds> Tried a Nexus 7?
<neuro> mine did have an SSD
<neuro> 8GB
<neuro> rubbish
<chamb> I mean a proper ssd
<neuro> :)
<neuro> jpds: you asking me if i've tried a nexus 7?
<jpds> neuro: Yes.
<neuro> yes, i have
<neuro> plasticky bleh
<chamb> If I had enough money for a tablet I'd spend it on a refurbed laptop
<neuro> reasonable screen
<neuro> i use my ipad more than my nexus 7 tho
<neuro> given the option of spending or not spending 200 quid on a nexus 7, in retrospect, i'd not spend
<neuro> and save up for an ipad mini instead
<neuro> or buy something completely different
<neuro> like a replacement alternator *grrr*
<diplo> Replacement engine for me neuro :(
<neuro> eeshk
<diplo> Yup, just found out a couple of hours ago :/
<diplo> Well, it's either an injector or issue in one of the cylinders, the mechanic said as my motor is so packed it'll be cheaper for me to buy second hand than to trace the exact issue as labour will go through the roof
<neuro> jings
<neuro> yeah that's always the danger
<neuro> by the time they figure out what's wrong, the engine has been ripped to pieces and you've racked up many many hours of labour
<neuro> and then they still have to fix it
<diplo> Well a new injector is Â£2-300
<diplo> A replacement second hand engine is Â£150-300 ish
<neuro> lol really
<diplo> And it's quicker to change the engine right out and swap than to strip down to test and change the injector on my car the bloke reckons
<neuro> absolutely
<neuro> ramp it, drop out the old one, drop in the new one, mount it, done
<diplo> Only issue is trusting who you buy the engine from :(
<neuro> obviously not a 5 minute job but straight forward
<diplo> 10 years ago i'd have done it myself, now not so much
<neuro> quite right
<neuro> in theory i could have done my alternator myself
<neuro> but as it turns out, the air con is in the way
<directhex> hm, there might have been too much bourbon in that glass
<neuro> so it's easier to get at it from underneath, which means ramping it
<neuro> and the blokes who i went to to get the alt done ended up snapping two bolts off
<neuro> which wasn't their fault, it was just so badly seized
<diplo> yeah, gone are the days that I mind lying on a cold wet floor :)
<diplo> oh that sucks
<neuro> so they kept it on tues night
<neuro> got it back yesterday morning
<diplo> I've just spent Â£500 having other stuff fixed and serviced, up till now this car has been rock solid :(
<neuro> i know the feeling
<neuro> (sump, exhaust, drivers door latch, spark plugs, alternator ...)
<neuro> all in the last 12 months
<neuro> and i still have do to the front brakes, back suspension, and figure out what's wrong with the d-pad for the wing mirror adjustment
<neuro> bloomin' motors!!!
<shauno> that sounds like it's gotta be getting close to "how much do I want to keep this car"?
<neuro> i love it though
<neuro> i'm a sucker for fiats
<neuro> which really means i shouldn't be allowed to moan
<bigcalm> iain-laptop ~ $ cat a.php | pastebinit -a bigcalm -f php
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<bigcalm> What am I doing wrong here?
<diplo> Pasting it to IRC?
<diplo> :D
<neuro> :)
<neuro> zing
<bigcalm> You guys...
<shauno> I feel like an idiot, I clicked the link to find out what was pasted :/
<neuro> hehe
<bigcalm> Am I using it incorrectly?
<diddledan> bigcalm: paste.ubuntu.com doesn't allow php
<bigcalm> Ah, ta
<diddledan> it's annoying
<diddledan> really annoying!
<neuro> right
<bigcalm> diddledan: Ta. Removing <?php fixed it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6928110/
<neuro> bad things have happened
<neuro> i've run out of smokes
<bigcalm> neuro: quit?
<diddledan> neuro: I'm out of chocolate
<bigcalm> Smoking, not irc
<neuro> technically, i have quit
<neuro> since i don't have any to consume
<diddledan> and out of monies to buy chocolate
<neuro> diddledan: aaargh
<bigcalm> neuro: victory!
<neuro> bigcalm: that'll change when i buy more though
<neuro> the question is, do i go out now and buy some
<neuro> or wait until morning
<bigcalm> Wait, you might not want one by then
<neuro> ha
<bigcalm> Heh, sorry
<bigcalm> Took me 3 weeks of giving people hell for me to quit
<bigcalm> That was 26th August 2002
<neuro> good effort sir
<shauno> personally, I'd wait till morning.  walking 45 minutes to the nearest gas station that's open 24x7 doesn't make you feel great about yourself
 * neuro applauds
<bigcalm> I quit cold turkey, no aids
<bigcalm> Thanks :)
<neuro> shauno: bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<neuro> walking?
<neuro> for 45 minutes?
<bigcalm> That said, I ate a lot of Tunnuc's tea cakes
<diplo> Same here bigcalm
<neuro> mate, i'll be there in the car in about 3 minutes
<bigcalm> And snow balls
<diplo> 60 a day to nothing, 15 years ago
<neuro> 60, cripes
<neuro> makes me look like an amateur
<diplo> yep :( JPS as well
<neuro> oof
<neuro> lungbuster
<neuro> s
<diplo> I still want one everyday though if that makes you feel any better
<neuro> nope :)
<neuro> keep it up though
<bigcalm> I occasionally dream that I am smoking or want to smoke
<neuro> i may be slightly gasping for one myself right now, i'll support a quitter tooth and nail
<bigcalm> Wake up feeling ever so guilty
<diplo> Ive got friends/colleagues that have never wanted one since they gave up, no cravings nothing.. it never stopped for me but the need isn't strong enough
<diddledan> quitting cold turkey from some things is not fun - I often end up with that situation when I forget evening medication - one dose missed means cold and hot sweats, shaking and all sorts of other nastyness. I really need to set something up that reminds me to take them
<neuro> diplo: yeah, i know someone like that
<diddledan> but, it's all good :-p
<neuro> diddledan: just stick an alarm on your phone
<neuro> s'what my dad does for his insulin
<diplo> diddledan: I put on 9st 10 if that counts as not good :P
<diddledan> diplo: ditto (similarly)
<diplo> Lost 5 stone in the last couple of years though, benefits of splitting up with your wife :)
<neuro> ha
<bigcalm> Ouch. I'm about 4st heavier than when I smoked. But I also had a very active job back then as well
<diddledan> I'm not sure whether to applaud or commiserate
<diplo> bigcalm: same here, I gave up smoking and went into an office job and then onto IT
<diplo> Long hours on my bum
<diddledan> I like long hours on my bum
<neuro> ooer
<diddledan> neuro:!
<directhex> i'm tubbier than i used to be
<directhex> normal for married men, apparentrly
<diplo> I *hate* it, if i could find better paid job doing something else i would
<diddledan> diplo: become a labourer?
<diddledan> not sure it's better paid
<diddledan> surgeon?
<diplo> Signed up to a job site today to start this process off, within a minute of me uploading my CV I had a recruitment call!
<diddledan> wow
<diplo> I'd love to do surgery, but too much training needed and I still need to pay bills
<diddledan> bills suck
<neuro> yup
<diddledan> I think bills should be outlawed
<diplo> Pity he didn't read it properly, he was phoning about web dev.. I said I wanted out of web dev on my page :)
<gebbione> i just increased my canvas, but cannot select the empty space
<directhex> gebbione, increase the layer!
<neuro> so how would you pay for stuff if bills were outlawed?
<gebbione> how can i, so that i can fill it with a colour
<neuro> INCREASE THE LAWYER!
<directhex> layer to canvas size!
<neuro> (sorry
<diddledan> o_O
<neuro> i keep misreading stuff tonight
<diddledan> neuro: paying for stuff - gold-pressed latinum
<neuro> oomax!
<diddledan> I wanna watch babylon 5 in remastered HD. annoying that there's practically zero chance of that ever happening
<neuro> i thought all the vfx were done in 480p video?
<diddledan> I believe the whole thing was video
<neuro> really? cripes
<neuro> no chance then
<diddledan> indeed
<neuro> short of going back in time and bolting a go pro on top of the video camera
<diddledan> and even if the live-action was on film the vfx wasn't and the 3d models have all been lost
<neuro> oof
<neuro> apparently one of the guys who used to work at Foundation Imaging (or POP, can't remember) kept loads of Voyager models
<neuro> so there's some HD broadcast-quality voyager vfx possible
<diddledan> nice
<neuro> and apparently some or most of the DS9 stuff is "straight forward" to re-render once they've tidied up the models a bit
<neuro> so maybe in 5-10 yrs, we'll have all of star trek in 2K HD
<diddledan> all the startreks were filmed if I recall?
<neuro> yeah
<diddledan> yey for paramount
<neuro> 35mm for the bulk of shots
<neuro> cinemascope for the panning liveaction+vfx shots
<diddledan> even with 35mm you can clean them up loads judging by the quality of the TNG remaster
<neuro> and i think 65mm for the older model vfx work
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> and it's a real labour of love for CBS
<neuro> they farmed out season 2 with the idea that they'd do S1 in house, S2 outsourced, S3 in house, etc
<neuro> but they weren't pleased with the results
<neuro> so they're keeping it in house for S3-7
<diddledan> "if you want something done..."
<neuro> totally
<neuro> awwww
<neuro> just reading about S5
<neuro> apparently 2m and 20s of original camera negatives couldn't be found
<neuro> so they had to upscale from SD :(
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> which scene?
<diddledan> anything important?
<neuro> 37s at the start of The First Duty
<neuro> and 1m 41s of "Ten-Forward scenes" from Power Play
<neuro> but sounds like they've done a good job
<neuro> "If anything, the shots in question look as if the camera just pulled a soft focus (TOS female guest star-style)"
<neuro> :)
<neuro> http://trekcore.com/blog/2013/11/review-star-trek-the-next-generation-season-5-blu-ray/
<diddledan> looks like they've really improved colour reproduction too
<diddledan> the side-by-side video near the bottom shows much nicer tones
<neuro> apparently the film->video conversion muddied a lot of colours, so it's more about restoring the original than enhancing
<neuro> one thing you notice about the blu rays is that the uniforms really pop
<shauno> I'm not sure skin-tight uniforms are meant to pop
<daftykins> oooh TNG is what thee speak of
<daftykins> that in HD could be interesting
<daftykins> though i already watched the lot
<shauno> I don't mind so much about HD, but widescreen would be reeeaally nice
<neuro> shauno: won't happen
<neuro> although shot in 35mm, it was framed for 4:3
<shauno> right.  doesn't stop me wishing though :)
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> you can stretch it and cringe :P
<neuro> owwwwwwwww
<neuro> noooooo
<shauno> lol, nah
<daftykins> ikr
<shauno> more often I'll crop.  which is bad but not as bad
<daftykins> i'm the friend that demands TV's be aspect-corrected when at others houses
<neuro> that's worse!
<daftykins> can't believe they can stand it :'(
<neuro> at least with stretchyvision you don't lose picture information
 * neuro always goes pillarbox
<shauno> I find cropping less annoying than watching 4:3 :/  but I can't do blobbyhead mode
<neuro> yeuch :)
<shauno> well pants.  netflix won't open because the silverlight plugin fails.  trying to update it fails, and tells me to contact the software mffr.  sure, I'll just phone microsoft in the morning
<shauno> (or wait until next time they call me!)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-14
<mappps> hey
<mappps> i guess its too late for uk folk and too early by an hour for MartijnVdS
<mappps> ;]
<datanaut_> Some of us UK folk are up.
<mappps> oh
<mappps> not slept?:)
<MartijnVdS> morning
<mappps> morning MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> mappps: can't I even take a shower without you needing me? :P
<mappps> lol
<mappps> i was just thinking youd be around in an hour
<mappps> :)
<mappps> gonna watch true detective in a minute sounds ok
<shauno> too early?  really?
<mappps> heh guess not
<mappps> what time do you uk folks sleep then
<shauno> saturday, basically
<shauno> being a 'night owl' and having 6am shifts combine in the worst way possible
<mappps> ugh yea that sounds it
<MartijnVdS> and being a morning person and leaving for work at 6:45 (NL time) is my excuse ;)
<mappps> i think id struggle to sleep before say 11/12 if i worked days..some people i see at the gym at 4am sometimes (after work) theyre going before work
<mappps> and go to sleep at like 8/9pm!!
<shauno> I can't go to sleep at 9pm :/
<shauno> my internets are fastest 2-5am, and the evening's just warming up as the yanks socialize
<mappps> yea id find it really hard like i say
<mappps> 9pm..the 10 o clock news hasnt even been on yet!
<shauno> I gotta say I'm loving my new nets.  I'm paying for 120mbit, but it's not unusual to see 150-170 overnight
<MartijnVdS> and upstream speed?
<shauno> pathetic :(
<shauno> well, I'm not sure 10meg is so bad compared to what I've had in the past.  but yes your 100/100 sounds lovely :p
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they'll be upgrading to 500/500 soon
<shauno> :(
<shauno> I got a letter telling me that if I kept downloading so much, they'd be forced to upgrade me to the next plan.
<shauno> I was all excited and gave them a call.  there is no next plan.  they were teasing me :(
<MartijnVdS> I already have a gigabit link, it's just throttled at 100/100 because there isn't enough capacity at the other end yet
<MartijnVdS> shauno: awww
<shauno> I'm not sure "oh please mistress, punish me!" was the response they expected from their letters
<MartijnVdS> maybe they could get you a second line and do some kind of bundling/bonding?
<shauno> you'd think isps would understand geeks a little better.  a letter telling you you're in the 1% of their users, and the response is ... I know
<shauno> I'm not sure it'd take a second line.  just offer me a plan that doesn't have an asterix next to 'unlimited' in the description
<jussi> o/
<shauno> \o
<jussi> people are so lazy...
<jussi> I mean seriously, you live ~500 m from the school, but you feel the need to drive your kids there every morning?
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> jussi: oh that pee's me off as well
<jussi> MooDoo: there are a number of people in this little village who do it, all under 1 km from the school
<MooDoo> yeah lazy
<MooDoo> understandable if it's totally raining etc, but if it's fine, they should walk lol
<popey> morning
<popey> maybe they're dropping off on the way to something else?
<popey> like work
<MooDoo> popey: not the people in my village, but yes that could be the case as well.
<jussi> popey: nope, I watch them leave, then 10 mins later back
<popey> our kids school is 3.3 miles away
<popey> so no real option but to drive
<jussi> popey: make them walk! then they can tell their kids "when I was a child, I had to walk 3.3 miles through snow...!"
<jussi> :P
<popey> heh
<popey> playing this at full tilt in the office to test the phone volume https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHPkgIPDfcE#t=1m45
<MooDoo> if this is a rick roll popey I'll not be happy ;)
<MooDoo> phew
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: what's your obsession with 80s music? ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you were concerned about being rick rolled earlier this week too ;)
<popey> its very jolly for a friday
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: 80's music rocks :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I suspect I'm older than you :p
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: likely
 * MartijnVdS was born in 1980
<jussi> MooDoo: I was watching some vanilla ice for old times sake this morning :P
<MartijnVdS> jussi: vanilla ice ice baby?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: yes :P
<MartijnVdS> jussi: under pressure ;)
<jussi> which then led me to "Mr T - Treat her right" :P :P
 * MartijnVdS fears jussi's music collection
<MartijnVdS> jussi: though I have this: http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/4sXUFBP520n3SC2o8bg0TF
<MartijnVdS> jussi: and this: http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/1g55QqilucQ0qr1x4Sv5fw
<jussi> MartijnVdS: I dont beleive in music collections
<jussi> except a few old vinyls that I have
<popey> nice being first in the office. i can play music as loud as I like
<popey> even the crap stuff
<MartijnVdS> popey: I know the feeling ;)
<popey> dammit, just as I said that someone walked in :D
<MooDoo> popey: give them an hour off ;)
<dwatkins> moin moin
<MooDoo> morning
<SuperMatt> morning guys
<MooDoo> morning chap
<SuperMatt> Happy "oh crap, it's that day again" day
<MooDoo> :S
 * dwatkins wondered for a moment why SuperMatt doesn't like Fridays, then saw the date
<dwatkins> My plans this evening consist of playing Kerbal Space Program with a friend and drinking wine with my boss.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: it's friday that is all
<dwatkins> indeed, when she texted me yesterday, it didn't even occur to me that it was valentine's day when I replied saying "yes, I'll be glad to pop round, I have no plans"
<dwatkins> (and for those who are curious, being male, I'm not her type ;) )
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Donor Day! :-D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> JamesTait: Kebab?
<JamesTait> bigcalm, ooh, you know how to spoil me. :-P
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: You should add a little more sincerity when you are being that sarcastic
<dwatkins> it's kebab day?
<MartijnVdS> it is.
<JamesTait> I'm hoping it Green & Black's Chocolate Day.
<JamesTait> davmor2, where's my card?
 * popey notes davmor2 looks like a cylon with his headphones on
<davmor2> popey: I was going for cyberman
<popey> \o/
<popey> thats it
<popey> used wrong word
 * davmor2 deletes popey
 * awilkins also has quite cybermanish headphones
<bashrc> is there going to be some command line lurve?
<dwatkins> always
<MooDoo> davmor2: you taking over the world again?
<davmor2> awilkins: http://ubuntuone.com/0d86T5PnJ3LPhsf3mH5j4l  like this?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Always
<awilkins> davmor2, Well, not quite as silver : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/IMG_20140214_095152.jpg
<awilkins> And with more microfibre cloth for padding purposes
<MooDoo> dwatkins: OMG I can never ever unsee that :p
<dwatkins> What did I do?
<MooDoo> dwatkins: well I assume that was you ;) lol
 * dwatkins is confused
<MooDoo> dwatkins: no I'm an arse, it wasn't you I was supposed to reply to it was awilkins  ;) lol
<MooDoo> sorry *blush*
<dwatkins> no worries, our names are similar
<awilkins> It's a bad camera
<awilkins> Obviously this is the ONLY reason for your revulsion. Terrible grainy pixels.
<MartijnVdS> I think it was shopped
<MartijnVdS> because of those pixels
<kvarley> "RewriteRule ^([^/]*)$ /?view=$1 [L]" throws apache into error 500, why?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: it'll probably tell you in error.log
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: either mod_rewrite isn't enabled, or the thing that processes the /?view= URL doesn't like it
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Just a bad rule I think
<davmor2> JamesTait: is it your BUFFDAY?
<JamesTait> davmor2, I was expecting a mushy, luvvy-duvvy card from you, that I could post on Facebook for MooDoo to see.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I only send those to czajkowski so she doesn't stab me so often you note how it doesn't work must be the poem I put inside
<JamesTait> davmor2, well, yeah - just because 'poo' rhymes with 'blue' doesn't mean it's a good idea to use it. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'm more classy than that, Roses are Red, Violets are blue, the smell of the bogs, reminds me of you :)
<JamesTait> How could anyone resist?
<davmor2> JamesTait: exactly I've no idea why I was never swamped with cards
<MooDoo> valentime schamlentine
 * czajkowski peers at davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: What?
<davmor2> bigcalm: what did you do to those birds to make then hate your car so much
<bashrc> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgbY8-4CIAAJmh6.png:large
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm pleased (sort of) to say that mine wasn't the only car struck. It's quite a messy street now
<bigcalm> I might find out if I can use a car wash this weekend
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh so your neighbours hate you too now for annoying the birds ;)
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: did you watch the video I posted?
<davmor2> JamesTait: U+1F339 or u"\U0001F339" just for you
<awilkins> *sigh* Empathy works perfectly for our Cisco Jabber service but Eclipse Communications Framework hates it
<davmor2> bigcalm: I did
<JamesTait> davmor2, how sweet. Thank you. xx ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, @;------ there's yours.
<davmor2> JamesTait: ah the ascii equivalent :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: ---'--,--<@ mine has thorns ;)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hello
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<davmor2> MooDoo: I always thought you were a little  thorny badumtish
<JamesTait> MooDoo, careful with that thing! You'll have someone's eye out! :-P
<MooDoo> JamesTait: said the actress to the bishop ;)
<awilkins> Hah, glad I'm not the only one who still makes actress/bishop innuendos
<MartijnVdS> InYOURendo
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: <frankie howerd> OOOOOOoooooo </frankie howerd>
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhtFKNNd04A
<jussi> MartijnVdS: that guy was so funny in Scrubs :D
<MooDoo> yay new router works fine :d
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: which one did you get?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: http://www.asus.com/Networking/RTAC56U/
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Eww, Asus :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: but it looks nice
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: works fine as well :D
<MooDoo> connected to 5ghz seems zippy
<MartijnVdS> it should be! 802.11ac is great (especially if nobody else in the area is using it, and you can use a full 160MHz wide channel)
<MartijnVdS> but I guess you're "only" on n?
<MartijnVdS> (unless you have a very recent laptop?)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yeah n I thnk, but it seems fine :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: yeah, AC radios shuold be good at speaking N :)
<dvrr> MooDoo: Hi..........
<jussi> davmor2: are you an enigeer? :D
<davmor2> jussi: No I just break everything
<MartijnVdS> reverse engineer then?
 * jussi giggles
<bashrc> the accidental engineer
<jussi> "demolitions expert"
<jussi> :P
<diddledan> morning
<jussi> afternoon diddledan
<diddledan> my friend and colleague just sent me this: https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8057923840/h5277D4BB/
<awilkins> That's a depressing notion, that people who don't remember floppy disks are too young for me...
<diddledan> indeed
<MartijnVdS> In 3 years, 18-year-olds will be half my age.
<awilkins> Already there bro
<diddledan> I've still got 5 years till that time
 * MooDoo is 42 next
 * awilkins points and laughs at the old guy
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: great number
<awilkins> Indeed
<MooDoo> :D i'll know everything in april
<awilkins> Except what the question was
<awilkins> If you work that one out, we'll all disappear and have to start again
<MooDoo> awilkins: I'll bear that in mind.
<SuperMatt> oh. systemd
<diddledan> I like upstart because I've used it - haven't tried anything with systemd yet
<SuperMatt> My biggest objections to systemd are purely cosmetic
<SuperMatt> systemctl is a long command which is too similar to sysctl
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: if it make you feel better in 3 year 22 year olds will be half my age
<SuperMatt> and the ordering of the syntax is a ballach
<SuperMatt> systemctl stop service
<SuperMatt> up arrow. left arrow a few times. delete delete. art
<jussi> systemd is way too big and complicated for mobile IMHO. (sadly others dont feel this way)
<SuperMatt> you might be right
<SuperMatt> but I don't know enough about how it really fits in to the system to know if it will be good enough or not
<SuperMatt> though I have a feeling that because it's monolithic, incorporating so much more stuff, that it may use more resources, which isn't good for mobile
<Burakunin> i need help for install and configure Wacom Bamboo Pad CTH-301K
<Burakunin> i open tread, but is in Italian language
<jussi> Burakunin: have you looked on the wacom page  on the wiki ?
<jussi> !wacom
<Burakunin> yeah, sure, and i have installed all package, but...
<jussi> bah, factoid doesnt exist anymore
<Burakunin> in the temrinal dont find the package, and the wacom dont work on the app
<jussi> Ive no idea on unity, in KDE we have a nice config thing in system settings
<Burakunin> i dont like KDE
<Burakunin> but ty for info
<jussi> Burakunin: you can also ask in #ubuntu
<Burakunin> in inglese mi consigliano di provare col KDE anziche Unity
<Burakunin> avrei necessitÃ  d'aiuto: http://forum.ubuntu-it.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=574264
<jussi> Burakunin: this is the UK channel - have you joined the italian channel yet? #ubuntu-it ?
<Burakunin> ah sorry
<Burakunin> im wrong
<TwistedLucidity> Ah - I was just about to reply with Wacom stuff. Oh well
<MartijnVdS> wiggity wiggity Wac.. om
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=010KyIQjkTk !
<jussi> so, looks like ubuntu will move to systemd... http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 (guess that is what the earlier discussion was)
<Laney> quite a nice post imo
<Laney> cuts off any fighting, sets out on a path
<MartijnVdS> it is. /r/linux is flaming it again of course
<MartijnVdS> "Only after the fact" "I wonder when he'll post the same about mir" etc.
<Laney> zzz
<awilkins> Ick - diversity is required for evolution
<awilkins> You need "mutant" projects like Upstart / Mir / Wayland to find the paths of best fitness
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: but I don't use desktop email clients!
<MartijnVdS> apt-get purge evolution
<awilkins> But then the trolls could all be regarded as selective pressures, so I guess their input is useful too
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, I thought Thunderbird was the default now?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yeah but people like to hate on sabdfl/Canonical/Canonical employees/people perceived to be Canonical shills
<jussi> thunderbird is discontinued, no?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: You started about evolution! ;)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: it's not.
<jussi> huh?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, I confess I don't like Thunderbird much either these days - I'm usually content to use the web interface of GMail
<jussi> didnt mozilla drop it ?
<dwatkins> like a hot potato
<Laney> https://plus.google.com/115547683951727699051/posts/XAdRaosWyjQ
<MartijnVdS> Now that one *is* unexpected to me
<jussi> but nice to see!
<diddledan> yeah that's a good message
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Isn't Thunderbird a dead project these days?
 * TwistedLucidity is sorry, catching up
<dwatkins> it seems pretty alive to me, but perhaps it is
<TwistedLucidity> I am pretty sure Mozilla said all dev was stopped and that we'd only get security fixes or something.
<awilkins> Last release was 10 days ago
<dwatkins> ah ok, that must have been quite recently
<awilkins> Someone not got the memo
<dwatkins> perhaps it was just a security fix
<awilkins> But yes, that was last year that was announced
<awilkins> But even so
<awilkins> I don't much like it for accessing GMail
<awilkins> Which I suspect is what kills it for many people
<jussi> I use kmail to be honest :D
<bashrc> Yes I read something about Thunderbird like that a while ago
<awilkins> It's not grokked the "labels" model, it's still stuck on Folders
<awilkins> Hence when you search you get multiple copies of everything
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I know there's new releases for secuirty etc; but I didn't think there was active development. Maybe I'm worng, of course
<bashrc> but Thunderbird is still great.  I use it often
<TwistedLucidity> I'm on KDE, I use Thunderbird.
<bashrc> I only use Gmail now as a fallback, in case my main email account is unavailable
<MartijnVdS> I use gmail for everything
<MartijnVdS> Work also has gmail, so there's that :)
<TwistedLucidity> The NSA loves you. :-D
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: we write open source software for local governments
<bashrc> I liked the gmail UI in the early days, but they really wrecked it
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: nah, as long as you keep those "special" inbox features (tabs, priority inbox) disabled it's fine
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Open source in local government? IT'S A MIRACLE!
<TwistedLucidity> Good job!
<awilkins> Cabinet office just stated their policy on government documents for the UK - ODF, baby
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: case management :)
<bashrc> what about all that nonsense with the animated labels, and the incomprehensible icons
<davmor2> As I understand it. Mozilla didn't drop thunderbird they just said they were stopping developing it to concentrate efforts on for firefox os now that is done they have picked up thunderbird again I could be wrong though
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: animated labels? which icons? (my buttons have text)
<jussi> when you say "its a miracle" next thing that always pops into my mind is "a man doesnt just vanish like a fart into the wind" (double points if you know which movie...)
<bashrc> in the early days gmail was simple, like the web search, very minimalist
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Which ODF though? I thought MS's variant wasn't fully compatible with LibreOffice.
<TwistedLucidity> jussi: I get no points
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: probably the ISO variant, if they're sane
<awilkins> http://standards.data.gov.uk/proposal/sharing-collaborating-government-documents
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: also, PDF/A for archival :)
<awilkins> "Users are not required to buy new software to submit or work with government information" - therefore, LibreOffice
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: I thought the problem stemmed from the standard being a bit wooly about some things. So MS implemented in a way that was incompatible with everyone else.
<jussi> TwistedLucidity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX6FmJAbdAg - about 20 seconds in...
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: they've fixed most bugs I think
<TwistedLucidity> I didn't think is was a bug - I thought it was a deliberate tactic
<dwatkins> sounds like IE6
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: As MS Word will export to MS's ODF variant; no new software is required. It would surpise me (in a good way) if the civil service/government switch to LibreOffice. But as they will no doubt have various integrations that are MS-only. That'll take time.
<TwistedLucidity> Still, going with some ODF variant is a good start
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Yeah - we need an Office of Office Software
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Just a fraction of what we spend yearly on MS Office licenses would make the OpenDocument Foundation ecstatically happy if we spent it on development
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: The Office of the Minister of Office; chair of the Office Committe on Office.
<TwistedLucidity> This is what I was thinking of https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/odf-office (No real detail, sorry). Maybe the situation has been improved now.
<TwistedLucidity> There we go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument_software#Microsoft_Office_2007_SP2_support_controversy
<awilkins> Yeah, opening ODS sheets in Excel pretty much breaks them horribly
<awilkins> And the formatting is crap
<awilkins> Of course, part of that is the stupid focus on formatting and not document structure
<diddledan> formatting in wordprocessing docs - the first thing they teach you in school is actually not anything to do with proper document construction but "WHEEE BOLD"
<awilkins> I want to make all my users start writing their docs in Markdown
<jussi> latex!!!  :P
<awilkins> Only I discovered that Markdown has no tables except HTML
<bashrc> isn't org-mode a better option?
<bashrc> i.e. brain-dead simple
<awilkins> Anything that Pandoc understands
<awilkins> But has to be a good academic book format
<awilkins> Has to support references, footnotes, etc
<bashrc> I think org-mode does support those
<diddledan> for some reason people* don't understand that headings aren't a formatting feature (especially so when it comes to webpages) [* including colleagues]
<diddledan> I hate having to trawl through html that someone else created when asked to fix accessibility - practically every error is related to headings
<dwatkins> ---=== under construction ===---
<diddledan> e.g. the page begins with an h3 >.<
<diddledan> the reason it was an h3 was because "it had the style I wanted"
<TwistedLucidity> Thing is, trying to get people to not fuss over the looks is hard. Just get the info down, make it clear, tag it correctly (with whatever mark-up/down is being used) and let the appearance take care of itself
<diddledan> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/02/10/how-google-used-motorola-to-smack-down-samsung-twice/
<diddledan> funny
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Yeah, one of my primary gripes with helping my wife with her academic writings was that she'd contantly stress over the formatting, the page breaks, everthing, right the way through
<awilkins> Must add so much time to the document construction
<TwistedLucidity> It's easy to get sucked into though, give one the illusion of control
<foobarry> bitcoins are "cheap" nowadays
<foobarry> $300 instead of $900
<ali12341> good luck actually buying those ones
<foobarry> is mgt gox shut then?
<ali12341> you can't withdraw bitcoins and it takes several weeks to withdraw fiat, so yes effectively
<ali12341> that's why the price there is the way it is
<ali12341> seems like gox lost all their customer's bitcoins to a noob mistake
<diddledan> binary horse staple?
<ali12341> no, *that* noob mistake hit months ago
<diddledan> or similar
<ali12341> someone paid a few million dust transactions into that wallet and then everyone tried to import it into their gox account
<ali12341> result: gox massively ddos'ed the network
<ali12341> gox is just one disaster after another
<neuro> you know what the MtG bit of MtGox stands for, don't you?
<ali12341> of course i do
<neuro> Magic the Gathering
<ali12341> someone reminds me nearly every day
<neuro> a currency exchange formed from a site supporting a card game
<neuro> yikes
<ali12341> the thing is though, the guy who originally set up a MtG exchange no longer owns it
<ali12341> he wisely sold it to someone else
<ali12341> it was originally founded by one of the developers of edonkey
<ali12341> he's now making a new exchange
<ali12341> meanwhile the people who bought gox have run it into the ground
<neuro> regardless, makes me feel glad i have steered clear of bitcoin
<popey> edonkey
<popey> that brings back memories
<popey> edonkey and overnet...
<foobarry> napster
 * neuro was more of an emule guy
<foobarry> limewire
<neuro> suprnova
<neuro> i've forgotten what app i used to download music back in 2000/2001
<ali12341> ftp probably
<neuro> nope
<neuro> was p2p
<ali12341> well 2000 would have been napster
<neuro> i ran it over dialup
<neuro> that was painful
<neuro> nope, it wasn't napster
<ali12341> before that it was ftp sites and clicking on adverts to get the login
<ali12341> and before that there was no music on the internet except midi
<neuro> before 2000?
<neuro> hahahahahaha
<neuro> you're funny
<ali12341> no, before about 1997
<neuro> you're forgetting about ay, sid, mod ...
<ali12341> yeah, mod files
<neuro> aaaaah audiogalaxy, that was it
<awilkins> I used to buy things from that dodgy Russian thing that sold audio files priced by the MB
<neuro> jings, that's even worse than just copying/infringing :)
<awilkins> Despite the dodginess, they had the right business model
<awilkins> * Whatever format the customer wants, the customer gets
<foobarry> mp3free or something
<awilkins> * Charge a sensible price
<awilkins> I was downloading things in OGG6
<foobarry> awilkins: i don't think the musicians got many pennys from it
<neuro> if any
<awilkins> foobarry, They allegedly offered to pay the royalties owed but the MPAA refused in case it looked like it was a legitimate business model
<neuro> awilkins: allofmp3?
<awilkins> That was the one
<neuro> wow
<neuro> the RIAA filed a lawsuit against them in 2006
<neuro> claiming infringement awards equal to $150,000 for each song downloaded between June and October 2006
<neuro> 11 million of them
<neuro> the lawsuit was seeking $1.65tn damages, more than Russia's GDP
<foobarry> back from a day at the RAF museum with my boy
<neuro> foobarry: nice, which one?
<neuro> *the* one?
<neuro> cosford?
<foobarry> hendon
<neuro> right
<neuro> there's two, i keep forgetting
<awilkins> "On May 20, 2008, the RIAA dropped all copyright infringement charges against AllOfMP3.com"
<foobarry> north circ was very wet
<neuro> anything nice on static?
<awilkins> I wonder if they just gave up to cut their losses... all $1.65T of them..
<foobarry> huh
<foobarry> everything!
<neuro> :)
<neuro> ooh XL318
<foobarry> vulcan?
<neuro> ya
<foobarry> its in a dark corner
<foobarry> deserves its own hall
<foobarry> like the lanc has a big presence
<neuro> ooh a lightning f.6
<foobarry> hard to get nice pics
<neuro> that thing is a beast
<foobarry> i'm more a WWII and WWI guy
<foobarry> but i appreciate the vuilcan and lightning
<neuro> i was a jet kid
<neuro> plus my late uncle worked in the RAF servicing lightnings
<neuro> so bit of an affinity
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/xEEWwuc.jpg
<foobarry> blurry due to lack of light or tripod
<neuro> nice
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/zPEocXS.jpg
<neuro> lovely
<foobarry> the light and tight space are not conducive to good photog
<foobarry> nose of the vulcan is 2 inches from the corner of the hanger
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/UNIelqq.jpg
<foobarry> enigma 1
<daftykins> CHF. TECH GRIFF JONES
<daftykins> didn't know Griff Rhys Jones flew
<neuro> the reheat on this sucker is ridiculous
<neuro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oHUyr0B48
<neuro> also, car alarms fail - who puts the car alarm on when parking at an airshow?
<mappps> tihs true detective series is quite good
<neuro> i keep meaning to start watching it
<neuro> however, house of cards season 2 dropped today
<neuro> i have a long weekend ahead of me
<mappps> i watched the first ep..double ep this morning just watching e3 now..decent imo
<davmor2> foobarry: Chf Tech is Griff Jones but he's a comedian that worked with mel smith :D
<mappps> hmm not seen any of house of cards..thats another i need to see someday
<mappps> and Hemlock grove..anyone seen that?
<neuro> nope
<foobarry> #reasonsmysoniscrying ..he didn't notice the slope as he ran up to the "lamborghini" http://i.imgur.com/hPewhjd.jpg
<neuro> awww
<foobarry> he's angrily shouting his lungs
<foobarry> blamed me for not telling him about the slope
<awilkins> mappps, The old UK House of Cards is also very good
<awilkins> mappps, The new one is great, and has those polished modern production values
<diddledan> foobarry: to be fair the slope is pretty invisible :-p
<awilkins> But Iain Richardson is The Man
<foobarry> diddledan: yeah, to a 4yr old
<foobarry> who is running
<mappps> hey awilkins there was a uk one?!
<mappps> never knew
<diddledan> gotta love blackadder quotes on valentines day: "Thanks to a great mate for finding this. It's not a turnip, it's a sweet potato, but it's shaped like a great big thingie!"
<diddledan> I think the link attached to that quote might offend some so I shall refrain from posting it
<daftykins> holy moly a restraint diddledan!
<diddledan> daftykins: I know, crazy, huh?!
<mappps> hm
<mappps> still raining..got soaked walking back from sainsburys;/ wasnt raining when i left..which was why i went
<mappps> was thinking of going gym in a bit..but cba when weathers like this..il wait till we get a break in it:D
 * SuperEngineer thinks mappps will not be going to gym for a while yet... try rowing - keeps you fit & gets you around atm ;)
<MooDoo> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> going to break my laptop and upgrade to trusty :D
<MartijnVdS> good luck!
<MooDoo> It's upgrading now, If i'm back after a reboot it's ok lol
<MartijnVdS> :)
<diddledan> yey, I just got informed that I caught a spamm0r: http://www.projecthoneypot.org/ip_218.82.218.106
<daftykins> 0o
<foobarry> quick and dirty panorama from my day out today
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/BTq0kEb.jpg
<MartijnVdS> cool :)
<MartijnVdS> where's that?
<MooDoo> well done diddledan
<mappps> heh SuperEngineer wanted to go before 11/12 tonight really
<mappps> cool
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: raf museum, hendon
<foobarry> its in the hall that shuts at 12pm
<MartijnVdS> Cool!
<foobarry> a great day out
<foobarry> except low light
<mappps> valentines day out?
<mappps> :D
<mappps> heh
<foobarry> took my boy out, so in effect, gave the wife some free time
<foobarry> which is a great gift to a housewife
<foobarry> she went to knitting club at the cafe
<diddledan> shauno: you use os x - have you ever tried getting it to time machine onto a freenas box?
<mappps> heh
<foobarry> hugin does a good job of stitching IMO
<MooDoo> what's freenas like?  thinking about building a box
<MartijnVdS> it's like FreeBSD
<MartijnVdS> I'd just install Ubuntu instead ;)
<MooDoo> thought it moved to debian?
<foobarry> tried openfiler?
<mappps> openfiler?
<MooDoo> not tried any nas apart from the netgear i use
<foobarry> openfilter does iscsi etc if you're into that sort of stuff
<foobarry> *filer
<MartijnVdS> so does an ubutnu install
<MartijnVdS> so does a SYnology NAS, or a QNAP
<MooDoo> I like the sound of a synology box
<MartijnVdS> (it's just a package/set of packages)
<foobarry> synology are nice
<MartijnVdS> you need to watch updates though
<MartijnVdS> there'sa a remote exploit going around that turns them in to bitcoin miners
<MartijnVdS> unless you have the latest firmware
<MooDoo> freenas or the synology?
<diddledan> speaky of freenas - just got an email from them
<MooDoo> what you broke? ;)
<diddledan> they're promoting a new all-in-one unit called the "freenas mini"
<foobarry> adblock crashes and first ad contains skimpy lady in lingerie
<foobarry> thanks internet, not necessary
<daftykins> how is that ever not necessary 0o
<diddledan> surely it's a "lady in skimpy lingerie" rather than "skimpy lady in lingerie"? the former refers to the underwear revealing alot, the latter refers to the woman being miserly with her money
<daftykins> does it 0o
<sdfsdfsgfsdfs> hi, does someone know how to call in English the electric motor which does not spin, but moves back and forth instead?
<MooDoo> Electric Linear actuator?
<diddledan> linear motor
<MooDoo> knew it was something like that lol
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_motor
<mappps> hm
<sdfsdfsgfsdfs> thanks people!!
<diddledan> ooh, just had a brownout
<MooDoo> diddledan: they suck, power cut for us the other day :(
<diddledan> bout 150ms?
<diddledan> just enough to cause the light to flicker and my audio system to pop but all the puters stayed on
<diddledan> anod another
<diddledan> and*
<diddledan> but to be fair to my puters I do have a lot of my stuff wired into a UPS
<diddledan> I'm not sure whether it's an active or passive though
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-15
<mappps> #ARGH
<mappps> GOT SOAKED
<mappps> 2nd time
<mappps> wasnt raining when i got to gym..leave starts bucketing down and ive got shorts on
<mappps> thought id be ok-5min walk
<mappps> :(
<daftykins> D:
<mappps> poor old maps
<mappps> shouldve known
<mappps> wear my jogging bottoms anyway just incase
<mappps> coats soaked through too..really really raining;/
<daftykins> not waterproof!?
<mappps> i think it is its just u know when things get wet and it gets heavy and hot and sticky
<mappps> its one of them barbour jackets
<diddledan> anyone still around?
<diddledan> I'm trying to flash my galaxy nexus.. got to the point of actual flash, but there isn't any program by the name "ubuntu-device-flash" anywhere on my system
<diddledan> I've added the ppa the instructions say to add and installed the relevant packages from there, but I only have phablet-flash
<diddledan> which takes different options as far as I can work out
<diddledan> hmm, seems the wiki was updated very recently to change the references to phablet-flash replacing them with ubuntu-device-flash - also removed a lot of other information on the channels
<daftykins> tried the touch chan?
<diddledan> nope :-p
<diddledan> it appears to be doing "something" now based on an archive copy of the install wiki page
<diddledan> the page I'm now reading was edited 4 days ago and is archive
<diddledan> luckily I still had it open in a longlost browser window - there doesn't actually appear to be any way of retrieving this page directly from the wiki itself
<diddledan> aah yes there is
<diddledan> looks like the changer was sergiusens
<diddledan> isn't he important?
<diddledan> he should know what he's on about surely?!
<diddledan> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install?action=info
<diddledan> wow, first impressions of ubutouch are pretty positive - the graphical elements are purdy
<mappps> hey
<knightwise> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dvrr> Hiiiiiiii
<dvrr> good morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning hrh popey
<foobarry> k3b, clementine and rhythmbox fail to rip cds :(
<foobarry> rhythmbox just hangs :(
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: sound-juicer?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: what's the error message?
<MartijnVdS> I've found that first inserting the CD, then starting sound-juicer works best for me
<foobarry> no error. just waiting
<foobarry> red circle on track1
<foobarry> estimated time unknown
<foobarry> notghing happens
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: what does "cdparanoia -Bvs" do? (do this in an empty/spare directory, it'll make .wavs)
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: that + flac -8 *wav + Musicbrainz picard ("picard ." -> search for CD -> click "tagger" link in browser)
<foobarry> scsi_read error: sector=0 length=1 retry=2
<foobarry>                  Sense key: 3 ASC: 11 ASCQ: 5
<foobarry>                  Transport error: Medium reading data from medium
<foobarry>                  System error: Input/output error
<foobarry> dodgy cd?
<MartijnVdS> I'd clean it, yes
<foobarry> doesnt even play. no wonder
<foobarry_> MartijnVdS: how do you change the mp3 quality settings on s-juicer?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it uses the gstreamer versions
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: profiles they're called, I think
<MartijnVdS> anyway.. just rip to flac then run whatever conversion tool yourself ;)
<foobarry> not very wife friendly
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: no I mean.. rip to FLAC and have rhythmbox/banshee convert it to MP3 when you drag them onto an MP3 player/phone
<MartijnVdS> but if you really want to rip to mp3, you can change the gstreamer profiles.. there is a tool but I forgot the name.
<foobarry> think i raised a bug, it didnt work some time ago
<MartijnVdS> http://askubuntu.com/questions/149153/how-do-you-edit-the-preferred-format-settings-in-rhythmbox
<foobarry> i think rhythmbox stopped reading the config files
<foobarry> will try sound0j
<foobarry> i hate linux sometimes
<foobarry> 20 apps and all failsome
<foobarry> have to quit s-j to insert new cd
<MartijnVdS> yeah that's a big bug
<MartijnVdS> but it's "not important" enough.. so it's been unfixed for 4 releases
<foobarry> :'(
<Laney> blame blame blame
<Laney> research the problem(s) and help develop the fix
<foobarry> does nobody rip stuff anymore?
<foobarry> easier said than done
<foobarry> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=602855
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 602855 in general "gvfsd trying to poke old mounts" [Normal,New]
<foobarry> This fixes the issue sound-juicer is hitting (sync cdda IO from a thread,
<foobarry> thread dies, new CD, sync cdda IO from a new thread).
<foobarry> This does not fix the secondary issue described in
<foobarry> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=602855#c10 which does not impact
<foobarry> sound-juicer but could happen to others (sync cdda IO from a thread, thread
<foobarry> stays alive, new CD, sync cdda IO from a new thread).
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 602855 in general "gvfsd trying to poke old mounts" [Normal,New]
<Seeker`> argh, why won't my screen stick to 1920x1080
<Seeker`> every time the montior goes to sleep / wakes up ,it resets to 720x576
<popey> ew
<popey> how are you setting it to 1080p?
<Seeker`> popey: xrandr
<Seeker`> popey: I've tried in xorg.conf, adding a new modline, setting a virtual resolution, usaing the nvidia application
<popey> why not use the display thing?
<popey> it will remember then
<ali12341> because it doesn't work with nvidia
<popey> pretty sure it does
<ali12341> it gives the appearence of working, but actually doesnot
<NET||abuse> having a fun steam problem today, enjoying the fun of optimus bumblebee stuff. If i run steam normally then add primusrun %command% to all the game startup options the games work, but the steam gui freezes and has to be killed.
<NET||abuse> weird behaviour, but if i optirun -b primus steam  and take away the startup options from the games, it seems ok,
<NET||abuse> odd one.
<Seeker`> popey: it will change the resolution, then if you reboot, it goes back to 720x576
<popey> nasty
<Seeker`> really frustrating, as its my mythtv frontend
<Seeker`> ali12341: you have experience of this problem?
<ali12341> no
<ali12341> have you saved the settings to xorg.conf?
<Seeker`> ali12341:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/6937552/
<ali12341> set ignoreedid and manually limit the frequencies to the ones for 1080
<ali12341> just ignoreedid might be enough
<ali12341> i'm guessing that's a TV, TVs always lie on the supported refresh rates for some reason
<Seeker`> ali12341: Option "IgnoreEDID" "TRUE" in the monitor section?
<ali12341> i can't remember what section it goes in but yes
<ali12341> apparently you have to use the "useedid" option now
<Seeker`> ali12341: where is that information form?
<ali12341> the nvidia driver readme
<Seeker`> ali12341: turning off EDID just makes it set to 800x600, with nothing on the screen
<ali12341> you have to specify horizontal and vertical refresh rates that will only allow it to select the mode you want
<Seeker`> any hints on how to do that?
<ali12341> set the mode you want
<ali12341> look at the refresh rates with xrandr
<ali12341> put them in xorg.conf +/- 0.1
<Seeker`> ali12341: not sure how to get the horizontal rate from xrandr
<ali12341> nvidia control panel might also tell you
<foobarry> Seeker`: run the display thing as sudo
<foobarry> save to xorg.conf
<mappps> strange sometimes when using chan4 live it says not enough bw
<MartijnVdS> 4chan live?
<daftykins> XD
<mappps> chan4:D
<daftykins> i don't think their setup is too great
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: now you can't think of anything else while watching C4 ;)
<mappps> 4od works fine
<daftykins> it's ok MartijnVdS - i do neither :D
<foobarry> how do u watch 4od?
<mappps> channel4.cm
<foobarry> which os?
<mappps> win
<foobarry> oh ok
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> does anybody around here know about a bug with the mac keyboard settings on 13.10 ?
<MartijnVdS> what's the bug?
<knightwise> i have french macintosh as the keyboard layout
<knightwise> it gives me an indicator up top
<MartijnVdS> nah, you only get the indicator if you have > 1 keyboard layout configured
<knightwise> but when I type something the keyboard layout is standard french
<MartijnVdS> remove the other layout and you should be fine
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: And yet i've thrown away all the other ones
<daftykins> sacre bleu!
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: don't use French keyboards :P
<knightwise> yes , very helpfull
<knightwise> belgians = Azerty
<knightwise> belgian macs have french azerty layouts
<knightwise> is there a config file where I can check this ?
 * MartijnVdS only knows US-International-AltGrDeadkeys
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: open the keyboard preferences screen
<knightwise> got it
<mappps> hm
<mappps> so its not a normal keyboard?
<knightwise> layout settings
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: can you upload a screenshot (Alt+Prtinscreen) somewhere?
<MartijnVdS> mappps: it's an Apple-brand one
<mappps> oh
<MartijnVdS> they're weird
<mappps> those looks fancy
<knightwise> i'm gonna try something , be back later,
<MartijnVdS> good luck!
 * knightwise hates apple keyboards
<mappps> judge judys on all the time on cbs reality
<mappps> and its so good
<mappps> :D
<mappps> my name is jack bauer
<mappps> cant wait for new 24
<Mad-Professor> hey all
<Mad-Professor> i would like some assistence please
<Mad-Professor> i am new to this
<Mad-Professor> i would like some1 to see my logs for start up and shut down
<Mad-Professor> I have ubuntu on my laptop with KDE desktop
<penguin42> Mad-Professor: #ubuntu for questions generally, and the best way to get someone to look at the logs is to describe your problem and use a pastebin to upload them
<Mad-Professor> kool thankx sir
<penguin42> Mad-Professor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/  also you can use the pastebinit program to upload them
<Mad-Professor> i have uploaded - any other logs to upload?
<DJones> Don't you just love people who think they own the roads https://twitter.com/TVP_Windsor/status/434743268719755264/photo/1
<foobarry> what if there's no other way?
<foobarry> been in cornwall/devon before when the only road out of there is flooded
<foobarry> hence all the 4x4s
<foobarry> fell on the stairs while holding baby :(
<foobarry> think i hurt her :(
<SuperEngineer> errrmmm... why are you discussing it here rather than phoning a doctor foobarry
 * penguin42 has heard it said he was dropped down the stairs as a baby
<SuperEngineer> :)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: said as if that explains *everything*?
<foobarry> cos wife took her to walk-in this evening
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Indeed
<foobarry> isn't this #nhs-uk chan?
<penguin42> yeh, it's too responsive
<foobarry> curling looks like a fun sport
<foobarry> "hot. cool. yours" sounds like a coffee shop
<maps|work> hello
<MartijnVdS> \o mapster
<maps|work> whats up?
<maps|work> im watching this rubbish Splash
<maps|work> ;]
 * MartijnVdS is playing with chef and vms
<MartijnVdS> VMs, not VMS ;)
<maps|work> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2560239/What-earth-thinking-Mystery-buyer-snaps-clifftop-home-destined-crumble-North-Sea.html
<maps|work> House in Easton Bavents near Southwold, Suffolk, was a mile inland in 17th century but is now just 26ft from edge
<maps|work> thats crazy!"
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: erosion at work
<MartijnVdS> should have built a dam -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works ;)
<MartijnVdS> though we have similar erosion issues here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rottumerplaat
<maps|work> but a mile to 26ft is quite something?
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: in 400 years!
<maps|work> bla bla bla Hollands the best yes MartijnVdS ?
<maps|work> :P
<maps|work> :)
<MartijnVdS> that's only 4 meters/year
<maps|work> yea thats true
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: at managing water things? Sure ;)
<maps|work> still a mile to 26ft sounds a lot..lets not get into technical details..ie time frame;p
<penguin42> we should get some more Dutch sea walls built
<maps|work> not many dutch people in the uk
<maps|work> every other nation..but i dont think ive ever come across any dutch folk
<penguin42> they're not that far away
<maps|work> yea
<maps|work> but i mean ive come across plenty of french/german well not plenty but some
<penguin42> maps|work: There is a canal near Cambridge where they got the dutch to build it - dead straight for many miles - easy to find on google maps
<MartijnVdS> I know a guy who moved to Leeds from .nl
<MartijnVdS> and a few ex-coworkers who moved to London
<maps|work> how does he find it? Leeds is a dump i thought?
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: I think he likes it.
<maps|work> I dont think id be able to live in another country permanently too settled in .uk
<maps|work> i dont mind going abroad..but it''s so different, im comfortable here in my routine
<MartijnVdS> same for me, s/uk/nl/
<maps|work> change is bad:)
<MartijnVdS> Though I love visiting .uk ;)
<maps|work> Didn't you come here to see some band?
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/11477796716/
<maps|work> hm cant flickr is blocked at work..stupid policy blocks webmail/photo sites bla bla bla
<foobarry> did anyone see the quad bike => jet ski in top gear?
<maps|work> :)
<maps|work> did you take eurostar?
<maps|work> ive got top gear on atm
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: I took Eurostar once, it's great :)
<foobarry> i took it business class, rather pleassant
<maps|work> but expensive when i looked?
<maps|work> compared to flying i think
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: but for that concert, I went to Gatwick :)
<maps|work> how much diff is business class to normal?
<foobarry> haven't seen normal
<foobarry> but its probably wider seats and nicer food
<maps|work> on virgin trains first class is nice...i always pay for first class when travelling to euston
<maps|work> yea
<foobarry> i think they offered me prem class food once
<foobarry> because they had spare dishes
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: I've also taken the boat from Rotterdam to Harwich (and drove to Land's End)
<foobarry> our CEO was on train and shared a table with thierry henry
<maps|work> free food/drink and 2seats a side rather than 3 :) and a table..used to hate haing to try and find a table in normal class..because never can
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: That was a great summer holiday :)
<maps|work> nice
<maps|work> on your own?
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: who me?
<maps|work> and drive?!?! pah ..im shocked you even have a license ..thought it's all about bikes:D
<maps|work> yea
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: Yeah, solo trip :)
<maps|work> ah i dont like solo trips
<maps|work> i wouldnt feel comfortable
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: https://plus.google.com/photos/100189567362844794281/albums/5877491002319853233/5877491010391899122?pid=5877491010391899122&oid=100189567362844794281
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: speaking the language fluently helps with the comfort ;)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Excellently penguin coloured
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: (note the front left tire -- had to get that fixed while popey drowned me in tea :P)
<maps|work> yea thats true -- i guess Holland solo would be way better than say Czech Republic solo
<maps|work> everyone in Holland understands me..whereas czech rep id feel totally alone lol
<maps|work> although america alone? still english but not sure id want to
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: sue everyone!
<foobarry> who's sue?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Bright yellow!
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: Some American, I guess? ;)
<foobarry> sosumi
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: sounds Japanese
<maps|work> so you went to Somerset
<maps|work> with all the farmers?:D
<MartijnVdS> I thought "tiramisu" was Japanese until I learned it's Italian 8-)
<maps|work> must've stuck out a mile heh
<maps|work> anyone does without the farmer accent
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: I went all the way to the tip of Cornwall :)
<foobarry> the best bits
<foobarry> the tip of cornwall is in dorset atm
<foobarry> due to the rest being underwater
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: so I heard.
<penguin42> and is probably underwater
<penguin42> foobarry: Hehe yes
<foobarry> there's nothing more enjoyable than a boy pretending to fly a plane/drive a train/car
<foobarry> in a stationary real one
<MartijnVdS> *prrrrrrrrr!*
<foobarry> he seems at his happiest in those places
<maps|work> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2560093/Schoolboy-16-wrote-chilling-letter-Moors-murderer-Ian-Brady-detailing-murder-plot-creeping-boys-bedroom-attacking-hammer.html how strange some people are
<MartijnVdS> daily fail
<maps|work> pfft
<foobarry> at least the url summarieses the story
<foobarry> annoyed when the 3-car-owning family in the cul de sac parks outside our house so we have to carry 2 children 50 yds to next parking space
<foobarry> there's an unwritten rule in cul de sacs. one car outside your house. extra cars get out of the road
<MartijnVdS> unless they all fit in your own drive
<maps|work> i have a space which is enough for 2 cars
<maps|work> but i have 0
<maps|work> yea
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: get a bunch of Smart cars, you'll fit 3 easily ;)
<maps|work> lol
<maps|work> just get 3 for the sake of it..to make the space filled? or claim its some kind of odd modern art:D
<MartijnVdS> yes. ;)
<penguin42> foobarry: Get a big heavy estate and just push theirs out of the way
<maps|work> Mammoth runaway SNOWBALL weighing 800lbs knocks through U.S. college dorm wall after students lose control of it as they are egged on by crowds LOL 800lb snowball
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: "My other car is a Caterpillar"
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: My dads was a volvo estate, it used to be able to nudge the neighbours car out of the way
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: oh I'm sure it could :) I've seen those things.. they're battleships
<MartijnVdS> or built like them anyway
<maps|work> just reading of someone who had been drinking and taking cocaine so decides to climb up a house and in through the window and slips..i wouldnt do it SOBER!
<maps|work> didnt volvo drivers used to have a bad rep?
<MartijnVdS> they did, until Audi drivers arrived ;)
<maps|work> heh
<MartijnVdS> at least, that's how it went here
<foobarry> penguin42: i have a big heavy estate :D
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: http://imgur.com/Zt8ai3h
<maps|work> ive got this qwebirc workiing well-just need to figure out how to smake it not display the channel name in title bar of the page
<MartijnVdS> ROFL :)
<maps|work> downloades all of hemlock grove..will gibve me something to do tomorrow:)
 * MartijnVdS listens to the Cryptonomicon ebook
<maps|work> whats that?:D
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/816.Cryptonomicon
<maps|work> sfw?
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: it's a book
<MartijnVdS> maps|work: it contains some NSFW words, but that goodreads page should be safe :)
<MartijnVdS> (it's just a collection of reviews etc.)
<maps|work> :)
<MartijnVdS> the book is one of my favourites :)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: It's World Pangolin Day! How could we have missed this?
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: :)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: http://thebrainscoop.tumblr.com/post/76766600941/happy-world-pangolin-day-this-is-the-endangered
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you're jet-lagged.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: or I don't know any other greeting ;P
<MartijnVdS> "g'day mates"
<penguin42> is anyone else on virgin media cable, running their cable modem in 'modem mode' and understand wth VM do to their dhcp?
<popey> eh?
<popey> i have a vm superhub in modem only mode
<popey> and a ddwrt box in front of it which sees the WAN IP
<penguin42> popey: What have you got it connected to?
<popey> Netgear WNDR3700
<penguin42> popey: I have it connected to an Ubuntu-server box running Shorewall and the kernel is rejecting the modems dhcp packets as martians
<popey> hm, odd
<popey> ooh, just telnetted into my router
<popey> not done that in a long while, like over 2 years
<ali12341> penguin42: did you register the mac?
<popey> do you still have to do that?
<ali12341> probably
<penguin42> popey: It's only at startup, once it's got a connection (i.e. I manually configure the network interface onto 192.168.100.x to match the modems diag ip and then login - it hten gets it ok)
<ali12341> why would they change it?
<penguin42> ali12341: But it's in modem mode - you can't register anything
<ali12341> sure you can
<penguin42> ali12341: And in this case it's the Linux box that's rejecting the DHCP from the modem not the other way around
<ali12341> how can you tell?
<penguin42> ali12341: How - everything is greyed out in modem mode except a button to take it back to router mode and a status button
<ali12341> yes
<penguin42> ali12341: 1) It doesn't actually get an IP   2) IPv4: martian source 255.255.255.255 from 10.34.180.1, on dev brinternet
<ali12341> in modem mode DHCP does not come from the modem
<ali12341> it comes from virgin's network
<ali12341> you have to register the mac of your router with virgin or else you won't get a valid DHCP response
<penguin42> but given that VMs DHCP server is serving from 10.34.180.1 an IP address on 82.27.172.x, giving a gateway IP of 86.7.101.1 and then embedded a rfc1048 extension of a default gatway of 82.27.172.1 I'm not surprised it's upset
<penguin42> ali12341: Register it where?
<penguin42> ali12341: The only registration I've seen is on the router in router mode
<popey> no, on vm website
 * penguin42 has never done that
<popey> although I don't recall doing that when I switched to modem mode
<penguin42> (brb)
<ali12341> you either use the special installed CD that does it all for you (windows only of course) or you go to a special URL a bit like a captive portal
<ali12341> this information is several years out of date
<ali12341> apparently virgin got rid of all that stuff
<penguin42> ah ok, yeh didn't need to do any of that
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-16
<mappps> hey
<daftykins> hi sir
<mappps> what you doing up at this time:D
<daftykins> mmm slept all day yesterday then went to a stag do tonight
<daftykins> nursing a very sore head right now
<mappps> ah
<mappps> hehe
<daftykins> plus i hang out in too many channels with US'ians, so there's always someone active :)
<mappps> sore head already and u were out last night..wouldve thought itd be later tonight u feel bad:D
<daftykins> heh
<mappps> back
<mappps> went to the gym
<mappps> :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * brobostigon just found a very funny picture containing popey on G+
<popey> that would probably be one made by ali12341
<popey> some time ago
<brobostigon> the one where you seem to be in the matrix.
<jussi> the horror film one is better
<brobostigon> :)
<penguin42> http://www.tnmoc.org/news/notes-museum/ian-mcnaught-davis-1929-2014
<foobarry> https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/497.The_Most_Begun_Read_but_Unfinished_Initiated_book_ever#816
<foobarry> read quite a few of these
<foobarry> unfinished a few too
<foobarry> did anyone see the waste processor kids on click :S
<foobarry> rakuten bought a messaging app for $900m ?
<SuperEngineer> wow! beautiful day outside... annoying thing is I really could do with a day "doing nothing/going nowhere"
<SuperEngineer> [perhaps I'll just stick my head out of the window, takes a deep breathe, have a good look and inwardly smile ;)
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> been fighting bootdisks all day
 * penguin42 hands knightwise a hammer
<knightwise> can't seem to get the amd-mac 64 bit version to boot on my imac
<penguin42> knightwise: What's the problem and what are you trying to boot?
<penguin42> knightwise: Which gen imac?
<knightwise> erm .. a silver 24 inch
<knightwise> i've installed osx, left room on the drive
<knightwise> installed REFIND
<penguin42> ok, so a fairly modern imac, not an ancient one
<knightwise> yep core 2 duo
<penguin42> knightwise: which version of ubuntu, how are you writing it to the disk (or thumb?)
<knightwise> 12.04 amd-Mac
<knightwise> when I use the standard 64bit version , REFIND detects the Grub , and the Grub fallback partition (and it boots from that)
<penguin42> great! So use it?
<knightwise> but when I use the amd64-MAC editions , Refind sees the USB drive but won't boot from it (i just get a blinking blakc cursor)
<knightwise> i'm afraid to use the "standard" 12.04 64 bit version instead of the 64bit MAC version
 * penguin42 would stick to the one that works
<knightwise> so i won't damadage my machine ?
<penguin42> knightwise: I can never promise that, but I've not heard of anyone ever damaging a mac with an install, you might have to reinstall macos is the worst I can think of
<knightwise> true , but a friend of mine installed the standard 64 bit version and his mac got quite hot
<knightwise> i've always installed the 64bit-MAC versions
<penguin42> hmm
<knightwise> so i'm a bit puzzled as to why it doesnt work today
<penguin42> knightwise: I'd thought the -mac versions were just different in boot setup, so any cooling/overheating problems are probably separate
<knightwise> ah. k
<penguin42> knightwise: I suspect why it doesn't work is probably that particular version of iMac verses that version of ubuntu at a guess
<knightwise> then perhaps i don"t need a bootloader like REFIND when i install the -mac versions ?
<penguin42> not sure, never used it
<penguin42> (I haven't touched macs for ages)
<penguin42> knightwise: The other things you can try, if you're using 12.04 you're probably using 12.04.4 if you just downloaded it, you might look for the older 12.04.3 or 2
<knightwise> aha.
<knightwise> perhaps that is the issue
<knightwise> but where do I find those ?
<knightwise> the only one I've found so far are the 12.04.4
<knightwise> I found a 12.04.2
<knightwise> gonna try that
<knightwise> the only difference there is that i"m gonna have to do more updates post install right ?
<penguin42> ish
<penguin42> knightwise: When you install 12.04.2 you'll use a different X/kernel set even after updates unless you specifically switch to the newer stream
<knightwise> ok , i'll probably only update to a newer version when 14.04 comes out
<penguin42> you could always try the 14.04 dailys
<knightwise> its for my wifes mac
<knightwise> i'm not gonna push beta software on her
<knightwise> i'm trying to convince her to switch to linux so ...
<knightwise> it kinda has to "just work"
<penguin42> ubuntu makes no warranty for your marital success
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> but running beta"s on your spouce = not a good idea
<knightwise> just tried the 12.04.2 .. same issue
<penguin42> I'd go with the plain unmac version
<knightwise> gonna try that
<knightwise> That one won't boot into the live cd
<penguin42> I thought you had one that you said was OK?
<knightwise> it boots up to the grub bootloader
<knightwise> just gave elementary a try
<knightwise> and what do you know
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... cheesed off - all I asked the search engine was "will be quiet! PURE POWER L8 400W fit in mATX case" - appears my goole/ddg foo has gone away today :(
<SuperEngineer> anyone here know the answer... pretty, pretty please
<penguin42> what are you after - just a 400W quiet psu?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: yup but needs SATA & molex
<knightwise> elementary OS boots perfectly
<SuperEngineer> & this is in budget, recommended & "best in breed" [apparently]
<penguin42> I'd have to check which one I got
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: But just look with the ones with a large fan in the ~#35 price range
<knightwise> ok ... and i'm back to square one.
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: It's one of these that I got in my router http://www.scan.co.uk/search.aspx?q=coolermaster+rs500
<knightwise> the single reason I danced around the distro's is because refuses to recognise my USB keyboard layout
 * SuperEngineer checks that out
<knightwise> So even with Elementary OS , the FRENCH MACINTOSH keyboard variant is not detected properly
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: I will admit ignorance on case types [I work in commercial world where that is meaningless].  Those are all ATX.  what's the difference between ATX & mATX when fitting & locating of PSU?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: But basically the choice is manufacturer you've heard of, big slow temperature controlled fan and not surprisingly cheap
<SuperEngineer> " and not surprisingly cheap" worries me - you mean don't buy "surprisinly cheap" I hop-e!
<penguin42> knightwise: I'm sure it's possible to remap the keyboard to the weird french layout, there are a bunch of tools for that, I wouldn't hang off a distro just because of that
<penguin42> knightwise: Although you could just get a keyboard with the keys in the right place :-)
<knightwise> true , but if you need to dual boot the machine ... mac is not that friendly about that
<knightwise> besides , I also have mac laptops around the house
<knightwise> Ok ...
<knightwise> and elementary just wiped my mbr
<knightwise> So now i can't roll back to os
<knightwise> x
 * knightwise is buying a pc next time
<penguin42> so now got nothing to lose :-)
<knightwise> ok , i could use a nice keyboard layout help tool right now :)
<knightwise> ok
<knightwise> found the bug
<knightwise> its the friggin apple keyboard sending out the WRONG keyboard layout
<knightwise> can you believe that ?
<knightwise> just just connected a logitech keyboard (with an apple keyboard layout) and that one DOES work fine
<knightwise> 2 days of work down the friggin drain :(
<penguin42> knightwise: If you do use ubuntu then please file a bug for that, it's something that I guess it's possible to work around if it's possible to detect that particular keyboard
<dwatkins> I managed to get Ubuntu installed on my MacBook Pro on an SD Card adapter (Nifty Minidrive). It took a while, though.
<penguin42> it would on an SD card
<dwatkins> Surprisingly, it boots and runs without any major delays.
<dwatkins> The difficulty was in finding a way to boot from the ISO and install to the MicroSD card.
<NET||abuse> hi guys. any rsync guru's about? I'm trying to backup my old laptop, about 40Gb worth of stuff i need to just shift but I thought i'd reduce the duplicates with a --max-size=2G option to cut out large arhives, but i'd like to capture what it actually excludes?
<NET||abuse> does the normal log actually list what is excluded? So if I pipe output to a log file I should be able to review it's excludes?
<NET||abuse> also added exclude=backup.tar.* as I know i've a bunch of backup archives dotted around that will again add to the bloat
<popey> http://prostheticknowledge.tumblr.com/post/76777529810/quack-flappy-bird-clone-created-for-one-of-the
<foobarry> NET||abuse: you could always do a find command
<foobarry> find / -size +20000000c -ls or something like that
<daftykins> i'd never heard of that game until the articles of its' demise XD
<foobarry> best PR ever
<foobarry> something you never thought you needed is going away
<foobarry> QUICK!! getit!!
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i bet the ads still give him revenue if people sideload it
<foobarry> popey: seen those revell micro quad copters they showed on click last week?
<foobarry> how much will powerups cost in shops?
<penguin42> heck, scan now taking bitcoins
<moreati> penguin42: and Aria https://twitter.com/Aria_Technology/statuses/431730863274217472
 * penguin42 wonders what they're doing with them  - converting or are they managing to pay suppliers
<penguin42> I wonder whether they run mining when soaking systems in
<awilkins> penguin42, Whut? Scan in Horwich?
<awilkins> www.scan.co.uk ?
<moreati> awilkins: yes
 * awilkins muses that it's a strange old world
<penguin42> awilkins: Nod
<penguin42> for some odd reason there does seem to be a cluster of the larger PC component suppliers around Manchester
<penguin42> which is quite convenient
 * awilkins used to work for Scan
<awilkins> It's very convenient to have a place within driving distance where I know the owner
 * penguin42 has been buying stuff from them since the mid 90's - when they had the old site with the settee in the entrance area
<awilkins> Apparently Scan are just directly exchanging bitcoin because they don't hold any - they refund you at the current exchange rate
<moreati> For anyone in birmingham http://box.co.uk is handy
<penguin42> awilkins: They have a singapore operation as well don't they?
<awilkins> Not sure - the Raja brothers have their fingers in multiple pies
<penguin42> nod
<awilkins> They own an Asian supermarket and other stuff
<penguin42> haha didn't know that
<awilkins> http://www.visitmanchester.com/what-to-do/indoor/MAN-12001_houseofrajas
<penguin42> nice
<penguin42> awilkins: When did you work for them?
<awilkins> Looong time ago
<awilkins> I was about 25
<awilkins> So 14-15 years
<penguin42> hmm not long after they moved to the current site next to the stadium?
<awilkins> I didn't see the old site, so probably
<penguin42> nod
<awilkins> They didn't have the posh downstairs display area back then
<penguin42> the old site was much more of a dive
<penguin42> much smaller
 * penguin42 bought a P90 system in ~94 (first Linux box)
<awilkins> My first system was a P166 MMX as I recall
<awilkins> Well, first Intel PC
<penguin42> awilkins: At the time Scan were small enough that buying a top end machine like that I ended up I think I ended up speaking to Shelley
<daftykins> who's Shelley 0o
<penguin42> one of the family who owns it
<moreati> tempted by this http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/shutit-the-ultimate-android-switch always missed the slide-to-silent switch that iPhones/Blackberrys have
<daftykins> penguin42: ah right
<daftykins> i wasn't very fond of Scan a few years back, they penalised us channel islanders attempting to order from them
<daftykins> they'd refuse to deduct VAT, or if they did, they'd just put the exact value on as shipping instead
<daftykins> hrmm i bought some loose Earl Grey tea
<ali1234> penguin42: scan use bitpay - it means they get instant conversion at the spot rate
<daftykins> do you really just drink it with it all left floating around... 0o
<daftykins> seems odd :>
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah ok
<DJones> Hmmh, spam email to a one off email account only given to Asus during product registration, I wonder whether Asus have been hacked or whether they;ve sold my email address
<penguin42> DJones: Other possibilities are spammers trying every combination of address on your domain, your ISP or any connectivity in the way getting monitored
<DJones> penguin42: Possibly, but asus@domain.co.uk when its a private domain and not even a commonly used gmail/outlook/yahoo would seem one hell of a waste of time, plus all @domain.co.uk emails would go into this one catchall account and there's none except for a specific asus@domain.co.uk
<awilkins> Yeah, I try that email+suffix trick sometimes for my gmail account but there are so many places that block it either because they think it's invalid or they *pretend* to think it's invalid because they know what it's used for
<DJones> I always use it with my own domain name so it doesn't get blocked
<penguin42> DJones: True but I get maybe a dozen or more non-existent addresses to my private domain a day
<penguin42> DJones: I think they use dictionary attacks on domains
<penguin42> DJones: I think you also get where fake from addresses on spam using your domain have landed in peoples mailboxes and those addresses are then gathered as targets for spam
<DJones> penguin42: Yeah quite possibly, but in that case, I should have more than one spam email unless they got lucky and picked asus@ as the first dictionary word
<penguin42> DJones: Yeh asus is a bit odd
<neuro> wheee, stackexchange is broken
<neuro> which is fun when i'm trying to figure out how to spit 50 gig of mysql backups over a 4 meg connection in one night ... ;)
<SuperEngineer> Kickstarter says itâs been hacked and urges users to change passwords http://feeds.arstechnica.com/~r/arstechnica/index/~3/0n_GUG4QY8Y/story01.htm
<neuro> yup
<neuro> got the email yesterday
<neuro> also tells you when you login: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x9m726hwzrv5rxy/Screenshot%202014-02-16%2019.30.35.png
<neuro> and jeez they have a crappy change password interface
<neuro> instead of:
<neuro> [current pwd]
<neuro> [new pwd]
<neuro> [confirm new]
<neuro> they have:
<neuro> [new pwd]
<neuro> [confirm new]
<neuro> [current pwd]
<SuperEngineer> yuk!
<neuro> took me three tries to get it changed due to muscle memory
<SuperEngineer> :)
 * SuperEngineer has a quandary... meal is ready but so is bath.  Gravy filled bath - hmmm
<neuro> eww
<neuro> i mean mmm
<neuro> i mean eww
<neuro> however, that is a logistics fail, so ha ha
<SuperEngineer> +1
<penguin42> odd, you would have thought your bath would have warned you
<popey> foobarry: I yeah, i did look at those mini quad copters
<neuro> POPEY DRONE ARMY
<popey> added to my wishlist of course
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Hubsan-H107L-Improved-Version/dp/B00D8CRR12/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA&coliid=IWQ6DRJXMYYJX
<zleap> how did you fill a bath with gravy
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hubsan-Worlds-Smallest-Copter-H111/dp/B00GZV99U0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA&coliid=I1SVUVWXR6AF5M
 * neuro waits for the inevitable drone.popey.com
<SuperEngineer> zleap - I haven't [yet] it's just an option should I combine my 2 choices...
<neuro> that controller looks like the worlds crappiest third-party PlayStation controller
<zleap> k
<neuro> i'd say filling a bath with gravy would be either expensive or too diluted to be tasty
<SuperEngineer> ..I have chosen to go with Sunday nosebag - then, well, then there's only water in the bath - DOH! simples
<SuperEngineer> [besides, the rubber duck has already been fed!
<Azelphur> AlanBell: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Feb/2014-02-16-200559_664x543_scrot.png hehe
<Azelphur> seems google doesn't have flash player ;)
<neuro> tsk :)
<AlanBell> yeah, they don't render flash thumbnails (unsurprisingly)
<Azelphur> I found the title amusing ;)
<AlanBell> http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/embed/18035291/?autostart=true for anyone wanting to play
<neuro> hehe, i just did a verified by visa thingy, and I had to type in BSG
<neuro> and i like Battlestar Galactica
<neuro> ... well, i found it funny at least ;)
<bigcalm> That might be the only reason to like Verified by Visa
<ali1234> AlanBell: i just looked at the code... now i wish i hadn't
<ali1234> "when i start as a clone"
<ali1234> this deign pattern is ... just wow
<ali1234> the first instance of the class becomes a factory
<ali1234> also, won't the clones all receive the start message, thus leading to an out of control breeding of pillars?
<ali1234> i also love how the two parts of the pillars aren't connected in any way
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, it is funny stuff
<ali1234> is it actually possible to write not-braindead code with this?
<AlanBell> someone did a 2d minecraft clone
<AlanBell> it really isn't for big things
<ali1234> can you make it show the code as text?
<ali1234> all the colours are really distracting
<AlanBell> but for teaching small kids the concept of a variable and a loop it is great
<ali1234> also, event handling and deadlocks
<AlanBell> if you download the project as a .sb2 file the code is in there as json, but it isn't much better than the screen
<ali1234> it would be good if the parrot didn't fall to the bottom as soon as the applet starts, before you've even understood what you are looking at
<ali1234> also you shouldn't score until you have successfully flown past the pillars
<ali1234> also the bananas don't disappear when you collect them
<AlanBell> they do now
<AlanBell> and with some horrible code, I have the score starting after the first column
<AlanBell> ali1234: here is someone elses more sophisticated effort http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/embed/16743509/
<dwatkins> http://t3hz0r.com/post/analysis-flapmmo-attempts
<maps|work> ;]
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-09
<mapps> hi all
<zmoylan-pi> \o
<mapps> sup zmoylan-pi!
<mapps> good result Saturday ..shame i slept through it
<mapps> Spurs beat arsenal 2-1:D
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> raspi2.0 has a photosensitive crash
<diddledan> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=99042&sid=cbfe5d362c6923b9d22a1d601b1a5506&start=25
<diddledan> oh that's page 2 of the thread - click back to page 1 to read it all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Clean Out Your Computer Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<diddledan> quiet in here today
<diddledan> is popey awol again? :-p
<popey> wat
<popey> not awol, busy
<diddledan> is that not the same thing? :-p
<sebsebseb> hi
<sebsebseb> popey: ping
<popey> hello sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> seems like a intresting week Ubuntu Phone week?
<sebsebseb> however  it says something about how some networks will sell the phone with a deal such as Giffgaff if I read that right?
<sebsebseb> and I hadn't switched just yet
<popey> no
<sebsebseb> what's the no to?
<popey> they won't sell the phone with a deal.
<sebsebseb> or not sell the phone
<sebsebseb> ,but provide a deal for it
<popey> hang on
<SuperMatt> it's just the only one that has confirmed support, right?
<popey> you go to bq website and buy the phone, then after purchase their site detects your location and offers you local sim deals
<popey> for the uk the local sim deal is a bundle from giffgaff
<popey> so it's not that the "networks will sell the phone", it's that you buy the phone from bq, and then get the option of a local sim deal
<sebsebseb> so in other words just activate the sims I got anyway really or?  I had to pay Orange/EE a bit more, hence not activing them yet.  since uh
<sebsebseb> ,but I should switch away before 13th Feb
<popey> You can put whatever sim you want in it
<popey> it's just an offer to a) make it easy for people to buy a sim-only deal, and b) a nod from the networks that they're looking at this.
<awilkins> 'tis unlocked. Suspect that GiffGaff came out in support because that's their modus operandi
<sebsebseb> ok so it probaby will just be a standard Giffgaff sim deal then, nothing reall special since it's for an Ubuntu Phone?
<sebsebseb> awilkins: yes makes sens for Giffgaff to support it
<popey> That's not what I heard, but I haven't seen it.
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah the bit about networks was a little confusisng in the stuff I read,  but yeah I guess it's what your saying
<sebsebseb> buy from BQ
<sebsebseb> then get recommended Giffgaff as the network
<sebsebseb> however it should work with any network anyway
<popey> yup
<popey> exactly
<SuperMatt> I think I might buy one
<awilkins> High featured phones that are priced at a point where people consider a no-contract provider are just what the likes of GiffGaff want to see
<SuperMatt> I'll see what people say when it's actually out
<sebsebseb> SuperMatt: I'll buy one 167 euros is currently 125  pounds it seems
<SuperMatt> I'm sure we can do a better exchange rate
<sebsebseb> SuperMatt: it may be a hold head set, but you still expect to pay about Â£100 for it right?
<awilkins> Yeah, the Euro took a nosedive when Syrizia got in in Greece
<sebsebseb> SuperMatt: a old above
<sebsebseb> handset :d  seen my typo
<sebsebseb> SuperMatt: according to another site that came up it seems to say Â£125 to whenI looked earlier
<sebsebseb> a result that came up
<sebsebseb> and  yes the pound is I think still worth more than the euro, so should save a little like that to then :d
<awilkins> Is the BQBuntu phone better hardware than an N4?
<sebsebseb> awilkins: Nexus 4?  I think the hardwaer is a bit old and limting really, depending on how you look at the specs, but popey is the expert
<awilkins> Brief look  ; no
<awilkins> Nexus 4 is a 1.5Ghz quadcore ARM 7 with 2GB RAM
<awilkins> Aquaris is a quadcore 1.3 Ghz ARM 7 with 1GB RAM
<sebsebseb> awilkins: yes low end phone, but that's ok for a firstone
<sebsebseb> maybe should be a bit cheaper than Â£125 though, but oh well
<sebsebseb> popey: yay it's got a euro plug like my Jolla :d
<SuperMatt> if it was say Â£100 I would jump on it immediately
<sebsebseb> popey: well I actsaully bught a converter whilst over in Belgium,  so it's not compelty useless in UK now, if I decide to plug it in.  yes can connect with another charger or charge via USB
<SuperMatt> but it's just that little more expensive and I'm thinking of getting a new laptop
<sebsebseb> SuperMatt: well it nearly is, but yes there's that extra Â£25 or so
<sebsebseb> SuperMatt: yeah I don't quite have that Â£125 to spend right now, but soon I will :d
<awilkins> Would prefer it it if was a no-charger
<sebsebseb> euro plug is ok
<awilkins> You can get a 2A charger for a fiver these days
<awilkins> Not sure how "scopes" are not "apps", apparenlty
<sebsebseb> looked a bit lik the JOlla phone to some extent, going by the video I saw
<sebsebseb> SuperMatt: reallly Â£25 makes such a big differnece?
<sebsebseb> heh it does mean something to me at the moment, but I got more money soon anyway :d
<awilkins> Gah, XChat did that thing where the notifier counter doesn't disappear from the icon
 * awilkins wonders if this has changed in 14.10 because it's changed visually
<SuperMatt> *phew* running vivid hasn't broken everything \o/
<diddledan> SuperMatt, do you mean "hasn't broken everything" or "hasn't broken anything"?
<SuperMatt> anything
<SuperMatt> although one could argue "hasn't broken everything" is also true because nothing is broken
<diddledan> aye but hasn't broken everything could mean that _almost_ everthing is broken, but one thing does still work
<awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSF4rmFLpsY
<shauno> mmmm, pi
<diddledan> shauno, yes please
<zmoylan-pi> be ready in a flash... :-P
 * awilkins has a Theta
<shauno> or less so.  I've never tried this 'noobs' thing before, but I can't seem to find a tinky-SD adaptor
<awilkins> I have a USB one and the usual big-SD-with-a-tinky-slot ones
<diddledan> stinky?
<shauno> yeah, I have one of the russian-doll adaptors somewhere
<shauno> but I have no idea where.  and knowing my luck, it'll be missing a bit
<diddledan> I don't like russian dolls - they're full of themselves
<shauno> well, s/luck/atrocious organizational skills/
<awilkins> Most of the new ones I buy have a big-to-tinky adapter (by design, mostly)
<awilkins> The adapters are at least perceptible by mortal eyes
<awilkins> Although I do prefer to keep them in a case
<shauno> I used to, but the sd-card cases are really useful for keeping tiny tiny screws
<awilkins> Storage media that's both expensive AND small enough to be sucked up the hoover trivially must have seemed a grand idea
<shauno> well see, they didn't have hoovers on star trek
<awilkins> Maybe it's just sensible to have N cards where N is the number of devices you have with a card slot
<awilkins> They must have had some cleaning solution on Star Trek
<awilkins> 90% of household dust is human skin flakes
<awilkins> You cannae break the laws of dirt
<diddledan> they should cover themselves in glue
<awilkins> Imagine being the cleaner for Riker's quarters
<diddledan> wasn't that deana's job?
<awilkins> "I don't know _what_ you do to these sheets, Mr Riker, I shall have to get out the Rigellian Swamp Beetle enzymes again..."
<shauno> !ohmyyyy
<awilkins> On NX-01 they probably just let a swarm of something gross from Flox's lab loose in your quarters for an hour
<awilkins> Then tempt them back into their box with a single Oreo
<awilkins> NCC 1701-D probably has a blue lasery thing that sweeps across the room living it in a pristine condition
<shauno> well now, this is a downside of ipv6.  I feel like I need to hire a small child to read the ip address off the TV
<awilkins> Convert them to GPG words?
<awilkins> Hmm
<awilkins> Maybe IPv6 needs something similar
<awilkins> Only with a longer word list, obvs
<diddledan> awilkins, wasn't there an episode to that effect where picard got caught on the ship with the beam getting closer because he wanted his own saddle when he went riding?
<awilkins> diddledan, Yeah, that was a Baryon sweep
<diddledan> gotta hate those baryons
<awilkins> Of course, many fans have pointed out that if you remove all the baryons from the Enterprise it would cease to exist
<shauno> from anyone else, that'd sound incredibly trekkie.  from dan, it sounds like it's probably illegal in 37 states
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins> Baryons includes protons and neutrons
<awilkins> Maybe they mean "weird exotic baryons that we're not going to bother defining well"
<awilkins> He also managed to prevent a terrorist group getting hold of nasty trilithioum though
<diddledan> \o/
<awilkins> ... by callously removing the device stabilising the storage container so their shuttle goes "foop" in a big shower of hot matter
<diddledan> shauno, no, they made it legal in arkansas
<diddledan> so 36
<diddledan> awilkins, karma is a bit mean
<diddledan> really? htf did he find little ol' me? the ceo of dyn.com (formally dyndns.com) just followed me on the twit
<shauno> you're quite difficult to hide
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ping
<bashrc> tzag
<bigcalm> What's people's choice of wiki these days for hosting API documentation?
<bigcalm> NB: private and self-hosted
<diddledan> bigcalm, mediawiki seems to be defacto these days
<jpds> bigcalm: MoinMoin works fine for me.
<jpds> Only real advantage over mediawiki is that it uses flat-files as opposed to a DB.
<bigcalm> Gollum has been suggested. Most tempting
<mapps> hello
<jpds> Looks like you can port from MoinMoin to Gollum really easily.
<diddledan> teehee: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11400246/BandQ-sends-Fifty-Shades-of-Grey-memo-warning-staff-to-expect-soar-in-demand-for-cable-ties-and-rope.html
<mapps> ;
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> http://englishcheesecake.com/cheesecake/valentines-red-velvet-cheesecake
<daftykins> aww yeah
<popey> nom
<daftykins> it's a good thing they don't deliver to the Channel Islands, i'd be broke
<DJones> 1.75Kgs of cake, you'll get the blame if the waistband/hips expand, expect the "does my bum look big in this question" and woe betide you if you get the answer wrong
<zmoylan-pi> there is no right answer to that question
<DJones> +1 to that
<DJones> No matteer what you say, you'll get beaten round the head
<zmoylan-pi> and if you pause to think about it is even worse...
<DJones> Been there, made that mistake, have the bruises to show for it
<zmoylan-pi> answer instantly is also unacceptable for some reason as it implies you've always thought the answer you give
<DJones> After 10 years of marriage, I'm a bit safer, I just refer to the answer I gave earlier and point out that my other half has lost weight since then
<daftykins> ah well you see, i was cunning
<daftykins> i selected pre-portioning, included a set of plates and forks/spoons... *AND* it's going to the workplace
<daftykins> so sharing is basically forced
<DJones> You're buying valentines cake for work colleagues?
<DJones> Ooh, er....
<daftykins> no :P
<DJones> Or do you work from home
<daftykins> this is to be sent to someone :)
<DJones> Heh
<daftykins> i don't live in England so i can't try their fine looking cakes :(
<DJones> Don't worry about that, just looking at it, it'll taste sickly sweet
<DJones> Plus its got "E" numbers in it, so there's a fair chance the eater will end up becoming hyperactive
<daftykins> ;]
<ali1234> how can i cat a file forever on a loop with shell script?
<ali1234> or rather, within a pipeline
<ujjain> Can somebody fix this phrase? I speak English very poorly after a year in the UK.
<ujjain> After a great year at blabla, I decided to continue my career as an IT contractor. I've signed a contract as a Senior DevOps Engineer at blabla.
<popey> looks fine to me
<popey> Good luck! :)
<ujjain> so itÅ not
<ujjain> IÂ´ve decidede?
<ujjain> it seems like both possible in my head, but I just use them at random
<ujjain> IÂ´ve decided, I signed, etc.
<popey> both are fine
<ujjain> thanks btw! :)
<popey> you used "I've" later
<popey> sounds better if you don't "I've I've I've"
<ujjain> ahhh right
<ujjain> at my new company 80% is foreign too
<ujjain> at my old company 100% of my team
<ujjain> I might learn some proper Englishski
 * ujjain hopes
<popey> :)
<ujjain> btw, do you know how AWS normally works?
<ujjain> I have to manage AWS things...
<ujjain> but uh, I havenÂ´tb een given a username/pass
<ujjain> and I get a little confused, with this new Â¨cloudyÂ¨ thing
<ujjain> people still have a seperate user/pass
<daftykins> not exactly relevant in here
<ujjain> with seperate permissions, right?
<ujjain> ahhh ok
<ujjain> IÄºl ask in ##aws
<popey> ujjain: you get a web account, and keys, probably after you start
<MooDoo> evening all
<popey> yo
<ujjain> ahh,
<ujjain> I already had my first day, but uh, IÂ´ll just ask tomorrow
<ujjain> donÂ´t want to look foolish, but havenÂ´t worked much with AWS
<ujjain> cheers MooDoo
<MooDoo> you're welcome, but i think you meant that for popey ;)
<ujjain> uh, I use cheers for anything
<ujjain> I meant good evening MooDoo
<ujjain> by saying cheers MooDoo
<MooDoo> ah lol good evening :D
<popey> We'll have to stamp that out!
<ujjain> cheerios
<ujjain> I finally have a native source of English as my main source of English, although the Scottish accent is hard to understand sometimes.
<popey> +1
<popey> same with strong irish, welsh, liverpudlian, scouse, manc, brum...
<popey> :)
<ujjain> hehe, yeah true
<ujjain> and jamaican man
<zmoylan-pi> rally driving with an irish accent is epic!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2b0bzUYq8Y&feature=youtu.be
<ujjain> haha
<shauno> letting youtube try to subtitle it is even better :)
<daftykins> popey: don't forget Guern
<daftykins> :D
<popey> dont think I've ever heard that one
<daftykins> hmm i think i found some old radio clips a bit ago
<daftykins> a friends dad when growing up, could not follow :D
<shauno> hm, I can't figure out how to get sound out of the pi
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi to the rescue! ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i just ssh into mine... i could add maybe a bt adapter and use a bt speaker...
<zmoylan-pi> and isn't one of the poles on the av socket audio
<shauno> found it .. have to change the hdmi mode in the boot config?
<daftykins> ouch
<shauno> I Dunno, I think that's an easy one :)
<shauno> if it's a pi issue it's documented.  audio on linux is ... heh
<popey> http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-10
<mapps> urgh
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning MooDoo
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> phew thought i was all alone then ;)
<MooDoo> or my irc server was broke lol
<SuperMatt> don't woryr, everything is fine
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: it is no i've fixed my kvm server lol
 * MooDoo makes a mental note not to just assume everything will work on it's default settings.
<SuperMatt> idneed >.<
<SuperMatt> *indeed
<SuperMatt> well, things will work on default settings, just not the way you want them to
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: had a problem with my vms not being accessible from outside my lan, turns out hyperviser default network cards, don't work :)
<SuperMatt> for instance, if you install openstack keystone, which is the auth module, it'll by default use an sqlite db. It *works* it's just not scalable
<MooDoo> ah well all is good, it's fixed now as you can tell i'm here
<MooDoo> I'm liking the look of this ubuntu phone :D
<popey> MooDoo: Me too! :)
<MooDoo> popey: you have one?  early access?
<popey> I have a bq phone.
<popey> a bunch of us have
<popey> think I got mine in August
<MooDoo> nice.....
<MooDoo> ah but is it an iphone replacer?
<popey> depends what you use an iphone for
<zmoylan-pi> the ability of my nokia dumbphone to hammer nails is unsurpassed :-)
<MooDoo> at Â£119 it's a bit of a steal :D
<MooDoo> make that Â£125
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Extraterrestrial Culture Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait you earthling you
<zmoylan-pi> are you sure, have you tested a dna sample? :-)
<JamesTait> Shhh, zmoylan-pi, I've kept it under wraps since 1947!
<MooDoo> lol
<zmoylan-pi> all those earthlings who belong here raise a tentacle
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: what is today dude save me digging through the logs?
<JamesTait> Morning, davmor2. Happy Extraterrestrial Culture Day. :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: Ah Nanoo Nanoo
<JamesTait> Second person to respond that way. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: Live long and prosper
<JamesTait> Why, thank you. :)
<zmoylan-pi> today is a good day to die
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: great film
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: you getting the idea behind juju a bit more now dude?
<MooDoo> yeah just need to think about it a little more, seems like i'll need 3 servers, one as the master, and two as the ones that get provisioned, unless i've miss read stuff...it's a mega subject
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah but those can be virtual so that isn't a huge issue :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you can use juju in conjunction with lxc and I believe kvm
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's ok i've got 2 dell 1950s which i'm using as kvm hosts
<MooDoo> glustering between the two
<davmor2> there were dell servers in the 1950's I find that hard to believe have you been read that there T'interwebz again?
<MooDoo> davmor2: idiot :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: :D
<MooDoo> just trying to get my head around this, seems easy using juju deploy wordpress etc
<davmor2> MooDoo: should I mention you can use landscape too and really fry your head :D
<MooDoo> shush i'm just trying to figure out how it all works, and it's hurting....
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> https://twitter.com/ubuntu/status/565103224265637889 http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
 * davmor2 pictures bigcalm huddled over his F5 button tomorrow from 08:55 :)
<zmoylan-pi> bigcalm doesn't have a squirrel army to automate the purchase and which he can command from big chair with white cat in volcano lair?
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> I'm not as desperate as you guys make out
<zmoylan-pi> it's only a squirrel division? :-)
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahahaha
<Wobbo> Evolutions 3.12.7 refuses mail. Hangs after a couple mails. Example: there are three emails waiting, after the it received the first one it just keeps waiting for the next one. Any tips problem Any tips to solve this problem?
<davmor2> Wobbo: I moved over to claws mail because Thunderbird kept breaking on gpg signing and evolution kept doing that there is a bug upstream it is just waiting for a fix,  but in the meantime I can recommend claws as a replacement :)
 * zmoylan-pi seconds the use of claws which i use on 1gb netbook with slow processor and it's surprisingly nippy
<Wobbo> Oh...
<zmoylan-pi> thinking of replacing that netbook with a pi2...
<Wobbo> I've been using evolution for about 8 years now so it's hard to switch another clients...
<Wobbo> Thanks for the info.. I'll just wait until it's fixed... I hope this year. :P
<Wobbo> But, is there a fix?
<Wobbo> Or, how to get the latest version? Using a .deb?
<bashrc> mutt ftw
<Laney> Wobbo: are you on utopic?
<Wobbo> no
<Laney> where did you get evolution 3.12.7 from?
<Wobbo> My evolution says: 3.12.7
<Wobbo> But gnome.org says there is stable 3.12.11
<Laney> I mean did you use a ppa or something?
<zmoylan-pi> evolution on my ubuntu is 3.10.4
<Wobbo> No, simple the Ubuntu itself.
<Wobbo> Mmm...
<diddledan> yeah, 3.12.7 is from utopic
<Wobbo> I am using 14.10 64b
<diddledan> morning, btw
<Wobbo> Morning
<Wobbo> I didn't now 14.10 == Utopic Unicorn
<Wobbo> I have the same problem with Apple stuff. I like numbers...
<Wobbo> :P
<MooDoo> :)
<cocoa117> anyone know any cli program that generate ubuntu system information, such as hardware and kernel version, disk partition, ip address etc...
<MooDoo> uname, ifconfig, cat /proc/cpuinfo to name but a few
<diddledan> cocoa117, respectively: lshw, lspci and/or lsusb. uname -r. df. ip addr show.
<MooDoo> what he said
<diddledan> /proc/cpuinfo is good too, like MooDoo suggests
<diddledan> if you want physical layout of the disk partitions then you'll want parted or gparted or the ubuntu "disks"
<diddledan> or is that "disk partitions"?
<diddledan> I'm not on ubuntu right now so can't check
<popey> directhex: you tweeted about updated mono packages for armhf.. are they being pushed to the archives (debian/ubuntu) and if so will they hit 15.04?
<directhex> popey: i'm not actively tracking releases inside ubuntu until the debian jessie release freeze ends
<popey> when's that?
<directhex> god knows. 15.04 i'd say isn't happening
<directhex> see http://richardhartmann.de/blog/posts/2015/02/07-Debian_Release_Critical_Bug_report_for_Week_06/
<davmor2> JamesTait: if you have to get the phones while they are hot....is that not a bad thing, you don't really want a hot phone surely :D
<directhex> popey: someone may opt to pull something into ubuntu (bypassing debian) based on my xamarin packages. but my recommendation given comparative QA periods would be to use the known-good packages in ubuntu already, and people who really want it can try the xamarin repo
<popey> ok
<JamesTait> davmor2, I suppose it depends why it's hot. :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: well I reckon it'll be your code looping repetitively and causing 100% cpu usage obviously ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, that's why they don't let me anywhere near the client.  I'm bad for battery life. :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: hahahahahaha
<directhex> popey: QA for debian/ubuntu package releases is months in unstable/testing. QA for mono-project packages is "yay, it builds! SHIP IT!" with lots of iterative rebuilds as needed
<diddledan> andrews and arnolds' boss is a trouble maker (in a good way IMO): http://www.revk.uk/2015/02/ofcom-think-they-are-above-law.html
<Laney> http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-31297700 <- can see this out of my window
<Laney> ruh roh
<zmoylan-pi> so dig a deeper scorpion pit surrounding your house
<Laney> roof mounted cannons
<zmoylan-pi> you'll never get planning permission for altering the skyline
<zmoylan-pi> technically the scorpion pit is a goldfish pond
<davmor2> Laney: laser shooting sharks in the moot
<zmoylan-pi> if we moot the sharks we can't use pew pew pew? :-)
<davmor2> moat moot mot there all the same to me except the government remind me about the mot ;)
<zmoylan-pi> *they're :-P
<mapps> god damn
<Azelphur> popey: you might know something about this, is there any way to do rsnapshot backups but have them encrypted BEFORE they are transmitted?
<Azelphur> eg for storing backups on an untrusted server
<popey> I don't know how you'd do that other than have the disk encrypted at both ends
<Azelphur> popey: I'd imagine the machine to be backed up (We'll call it my PC) would need to encrypt the file and then send the stuff to the server
<Azelphur> thus the server has no access to my PC, and only ever gets a bunch of encrypted data
<exobuzz> Azelphur, you will need a different backup solution for that
<Azelphur> I see :<
<exobuzz> if you have access to the remote machine in regards to running software on it, I can recommend a good replacement - https://attic-backup.org/
<exobuzz> just need the software installed at both ends, like rsync - uses ssh. supports encryption
<Azelphur> exobuzz: yea, basically thinking of just renting a VPS and dropping my backups on it
<Azelphur> as my required "off-site backup" solution
<exobuzz> attic is excellent
<Azelphur> looks swish
<exobuzz> I switched most of my old rdiff-backups over to it now
<Azelphur> exobuzz: will that do the encryption I require?
<exobuzz> yeh
<Azelphur> nice
<exobuzz> it uses a custom repository, so you have to use attic to access/restore files unlike rsnapshot, but has a lot of benefits over mirror + hardlinks like rsnapshot
<exobuzz> encryption, compression, etc. and will be more efficient than rsnapshot, as it will handle "moved" files. since its de-duplicating
<Azelphur> very swish
<diddledan> is 9am CET 8am or 10am GMT?
<diddledan> just wondering whether I can be bothered waking up
<daftykins> use the googles!
<Azelphur> My headset is starting to become a meme in my gaming community, the amount of times I've repaired it xD http://game.azelphur.com/forum/topic/121/
<popey> ~/22
<popey> bah
<shauno> hm, the spacex launch doesn't look too promising .. again
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-11
<daftykins> Azelphur: oh my tux, glue failed on V-Day 2014!?
<Azelphur> hehe yup
<daftykins> that's a heartbreaker :)
<Azelphur> this valentines day it's getting some freshening up though, I ordered a replacement internal battery, new cable for the one that failed on the 9th, and a second external battery so I can hot swap them
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> sounds like geek bliss
<daftykins> surgery *and* upgrading things
<Azelphur> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> geek bliss would be ordering 10 dead headphones off ebay and creating 1 functional frankenstein pair shouting 'they're alive, they're alive' :-D
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> and this is why we can't meet you, zmoylan-pi ;)
<zmoylan-pi> a lightening rod powering the device is optional but not mandatory...
<Azelphur> daftykins: I still think my friend holds the torch with the G930s, he bought one and did my battery hack to it
<Azelphur> and then he decided that his external battery didn't have enough power to last him, so he external battery modded his external battery
<Azelphur> (obligatory yo dawg)
<zmoylan-pi> the first was too small, the second was too small, the third was jussssssst right...
<daftykins> Azelphur: :D
<daftykins> that reminds me actually, maybe i'll send off my Shure IEMs for repair for my birthday
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapp> hi nall
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: wait till I tell you too that you can juju setup a local instance on Laptop/PC and then just deploy it anywhere too, so cloud, servers, more pc's, bare metal...../me dashes off to facebook to see if his head is still exploding
<MooDoo> davmor2: was watching alot on you tube last night, setting up mass, then juju and deplying wordpress etc....looks facinating,
<mapp> hi MooDoo
<davmor2> MooDoo: it is pretty awesome right :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah, not sure how I would make use of it yet, but certainly fab
<MooDoo> howdy mapp
<awilkins> So does juju work on Snappy?
 * awilkins wonders if you need to use the Force
<awilkins> Was thinking about mucking about with Snappy and you can now get it on Pi2
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Get Out Your Guitar Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning bashrc and JamesTait
<diplo> bigcalm, if you haven't seen.. more phones at 14:00 utc :)
<JamesTait> \o/
<davmor2> JamesTait: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8
<diddledan> my brian feels like it's too big for my skull
<diddledan> ello btw :-)
<JamesTait> davmor2++
<diddledan> so, davmor3?
<davmor2> diddledan: davmor3?
<diddledan> davmor2, that'll be davmor2++
<davmor2> diddledan: so diddledan
<davmor2> diddledan: was there something you wanted to say about something or were you just randomly highlighting a non-existant nick for the hell of it ;)
<diddledan> davmor2, it's a response to JamesTait
<JamesTait> It's all right, diddledan, davmor2 hasn't had his coffee yet. ;)
<diddledan> :-)
<Seeker`> ali1234: whatcha using teletext for?
<diddledan> Seeker`, I recall he broke some TVs with it
<MooDoo> teletext?  is that still around?
<Seeker`> yeah, the readme says that apparently the demo mode no longer crashes TVs :P
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> MooDoo, not transmitted, no
<diddledan> unless some backwater still uses analogue tv?
<diddledan> in britain however, all analogue-tv+teletext is dead
<diddledan> instead we have the MHEG thing that bundles interactive into the digital transmission
<MooDoo> I heard you speak, but all I head was gobbledegook ;) lol
<diddledan> it is similar in operation I think, but includes things likethe ability to change channels and rudimentary programmatic capability (probably java-embedded?) and embedded video streams that aren't the main video stream
<diddledan> here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHEG-5
<MooDoo> diddledan: no thanks, davmor2 is killing my brain cells with maas and juju
<MooDoo> :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: not to mention landscape thrown into the mix to manage it all right ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: git
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeap you can pull in from git and launchpad too yes
<MooDoo> davmor2: slap!
<MooDoo> just sussed gluusterfs, let me get that out my head first lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: http://blog.gluster.org/category/ubuntu/
<davmor2> MooDoo: was it not as simply as juju deploy glusterfs for you?  /me jumps in the bunker to dodge the missiles :D
<davmor2> http://manage.jujucharms.com/~negronjl/oneiric/glusterfs-server
<MooDoo> davmor2: see that's the find of thing i'm struggling to get my head around, how do you then set it up to sync data between servers, or do you even have to?
<MooDoo> i'll play and figure it ou
<MooDoo> out
<davmor2> MooDoo: Magic you assign links between them and the charm sets up the rest
<diddledan> live-patching the kernel? yes please. https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/2/9/534
<MooDoo> davmor2: that sounds like haven
<popey> diddledan: yeah, be nice not to rely on oracle and ksplice
<davmor2> MooDoo: it is that simple literally there is a demo server too so you can play with the gui :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: https://demo.jujucharms.com/
<diddledan> popey, it would be a killer addition to snappy-core and the ubuntu-touch update mechanisms
<popey> yeah
<diddledan> uptime-junkies rejoice
<diddledan> it'ld be interesting to see it extended to userland processes too - e.g. updating glibc and live-patching all running tasks to point to the new one
<diddledan> out of stock already?!
<zmoylan-pi> chicken stock?
<diddledan> ubuntu phone
<awilkins> After 3 minutes?!
<zmoylan-pi> blink and you'll miss it.  i'm sure a few will be on ebay for silly money later
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
<bigcalm> Hi intrbiz
<Azelphur> Anyone happen to know things about home automation type curtains/blinds?
<sebsebseb> hmm
<sebsebseb> I guess buying an Ubuntu Phone today, wasn't meant to be
<daftykins> oh?
<bashrc> why so?
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yes out of stock it says now
<sebsebseb> or maybe can buy anyway? hmm
<daftykins> where is this? :)
<awilkins> They sold out in about 3 minutes
<bigcalm> Both times
<zmoylan-pi> i thought you weren't going to be at keyboard tapping f5? :-)
<sebsebseb> awilkins: what it sold out in about 3 minutes really?
<sebsebseb> ?
<awilkins> Well, I inferred this from there being a tranche put up at 1430 (apparently)
<awilkins> And there being none at 1433
<diddledan> awilkins, the second batch was 14:00 and sold out by 14:06
<popey> sebsebseb: worked for me :)
<diddledan> popey, gimme :-p
<sebsebseb> popey: you had one already dind't you??
<popey> yes and no
<popey> I have an android bq phone which is flashed with ubuntu
<popey> these ones ship with ubuntu
<popey> and dont have the capacitive android buttons
<diddledan> \o/
<sebsebseb> popey: I wanted to check my money situtaion before buying it, wel if it han't been sold out
<bigcalm> popey: are the android buttons used by ubuntu if they are there?
<sebsebseb> popey: I am  down on money after Brussels, and also buying well  two other expensive tech devices in the last, ok make that three actsaully,  in the last  three months or so
<popey> bigcalm: no
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<bigcalm> Remind me how I go about changing that?
<sebsebseb> popey: no good being over drawn  when getting charged for it
<sebsebseb> pft  Â£15  for borrowing 7p really? uh
<popey> bigcalm: is a date set?
<sebsebseb> to many Ubuntu fan boys wanting the Ubuntu Phone today I guess :D
<diddledan> bq aparently just stated they recived over 12,000 orders per min
<diddledan> yey twitter
<sebsebseb> diddledan: oh wel that sounds about right, eseically  going by my comment just now heh
<zmoylan-pi> bodes well
<popey> we'll see
<daftykins> bigcalm: the factoid? isn't it !rat is <reply>blah blah
<popey> Looking forward to getting one.
<Azelphur> I've had a pretty interesting idea for off-site backups, seems like the majority of people go to buyvm for like $30/TB
<sebsebseb> so BQ doing another batch in the next few weeks?
<sebsebseb> or is it abobut waiting for the other maker now hmm
<popey> next week apparently
<Azelphur> and I've noticed the Hetzner bargain bin have some servers with ridicuolus amount of HDD space, they have a 7 x 1.5TB server up right now for â¬43.70, which comes out at like $6/TB...don't think it gets any cheaper than that xD
<popey> they (bq) mentioned that on G+ i think
<sebsebseb> popey: oh, but  don't get that case on the next lot?
<Azelphur> been trying to arrange a group buy with my friends, and we'll just RAID5 it, and use KVM to split it up
<bigcalm> daftykins: can't it appears to be protected
<daftykins> ah
<bigcalm> popey: thought I'd wait a week before closing the poll
<sebsebseb> ah lst my curousrr...
<sebsebseb> had  that bbefore
<sebsebseb> no I don't want to be completly stuck in IRC :d
<sebsebseb> in this channel to, if I can't change otherwise
<sebsebseb> ok back in a bit
<bigcalm> AlanBell: are you joining us on the RAT this year? http://doodle.com/4sdaaswwngu4n2bm
<bigcalm> AlanBell: Hayley wants to wear your hat
<Azelphur> god damnit, there's a clear hole in my plan
<Azelphur> 1 of my friend works at a data centre and gets colocation for free, another works at M$ and gets a free VPS with boatloads of storage...
<Azelphur> :<
<daftykins> Azelphur: :(
<daftykins> Azelphur: so where's *your* free setup!? :D
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> my company does not own data centers :<
<sebsebseb> ok back
<daftykins> every time i see a $ used to name microsoft, i remember directhex pasting a link to a comic about doing so :(
<sebsebseb> popey: well hopefully can order one next week then
<sebsebseb> ,but yeah I guess means get it a bit later then, the ones who got today the real fan boys etc
<directhex> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/07/22/m
<Laney> sonÂ¥
<daftykins> directhex: :D
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah bq would be silly really not to come out with another batch
<sebsebseb> since the amount of profit they can make
<sebsebseb> even if it's a half  proit share with Canonical or something like that,  any idea how much Canonical actsaully get from this?
<popey> no idea
<popey> that kind of information is above my paygrade
<diddledan> I had to look-up palladium
<diddledan> what happened to that?
<davmor2> popey: no it isn't....it's way above your pay grade ;)
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah they just use you to work on the OS for Ubuntu Phone and such,  and keep all the secrets, sectret from you heh heh :d
<sebsebseb> anyway yeah  there will be another flash sale next week according to  the tweets on the bq site
<sebsebseb> ,but when is the thing hmm
<sebsebseb> not so sure I like the flash sale idea for these phones really,  on the other hand if it was a general sale I guess they could all be sold out just like that and yeah
<sebsebseb> I guess flash sale ideas' help build up the hype in them to,  which Canonical will want of course really
<zmoylan-pi> a lot less logistics with just doing a web sale of batches instead of trying to find a few 1000 shops to stock them
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: yeah noting shitps untill March it seems to
<sebsebseb> so a lot of these phones haven't actsually been made yet possibly I guess
<sebsebseb> the psyical object
<sebsebseb> or they got loads of old ones that used to be Android waiting to go? :d
<Azelphur> daftykins: https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=11147b0824a0f337272d7eb12f2cb621 lol
<daftykins> aww come on the xbox one is alright ;)
<daftykins> Seattle i hear is rainy :D
<daftykins> so it's basically like the Pacific's England? ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<zmoylan-pi> rainy.... pft... this is IRELAND :-)
<daftykins> Azelphur: how come that screenie is so high-DPI 0o
<daftykins> seems like what i'd see from a mates retina macbook or some such
<Azelphur> daftykins: I'm on 2k
<Azelphur> it's even more fun, my laptop is 3k
<popey> http://www.pcgamesn.com/train-simulator-2015/prime-minister-david-cameron-spent-the-day-playing-train-simulator
<diddledan> Azelphur, 2k? you mean 1920x1080?
<Azelphur> diddledan: no, 2560x1440
<sebsebseb> popey: so what did you do at FOSDEM/Brussels anway?
<daftykins> 2.5k :D
<diddledan> indeed, that's 2.5
<diddledan> 4k is 3840x2160 I think
<diddledan> i.e. 2*1920x1080
<diddledan> as it's twice in both directions it makes a total of 4times the number of pixies
<daftykins> i thought it was more that it's almost 4 thousand wide
<diddledan> daftykins, the term "4k" refers to that, yes
<diddledan> k being shorthand for "thousand"
<diddledan> I saw someone a while ago thinking 4k meant 4million pixies
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> a time when i've been extremely confused about units, was popping into Boots whilst after some Vitamin B12 to speed up recovery from shingles - and seeing packets say they had 10 ug in them (micrograms)
<zmoylan-pi> give me 1kg of vitamin c so they pelted you with oranges... :-P
<diddledan> yeah the u is supposed to be the greek letter "mu"
<diddledan> u is often used because marketing types can't work out how to use the character palette
<daftykins> oh i definitely knew it was mu, i was just looking to get closer to 500mg so i was like - milli? micro? wat?
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> milli is smaller than micro
<Seeker`> diddledan: wut?
<Seeker`> you might want to rethink that statement
<diddledan> ?
<Seeker`> "milli is smaller than micro"
<Seeker`> where exactly between meters and millimeters does micrometers fit? :P
<diddledan> okok
 * diddledan goes and sits with daftykins 
<diddledan> we be confoosed together
<shauno> milli is bigger than micro :|
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> diddledan: join me at Boots on the Guernsey high-street, down staring at the vitamin section
<Seeker`> apparently the most you can absorb in a single dose is 1.5 micrograms
<diddledan> I don't work in such small numbers - I use integer multpiles of thousand
<Seeker`> and your body stores a total of about 2-5mg
<Seeker`> that's a long time to stock up again if you're deficient!
<shauno> meh, it's exactly the same, except they're signed ints.  10^-3, 10^-6, etc
<daftykins> well, thankfully i'm finally past the pain stage and have very faint spots left now :D
<daftykins> so it won't be long before i'm totally free of it
<daftykins> got this user over in #ubuntu who is booted into a precise live session, they want to make up a second flash drive as one too
<daftykins> i figure there won't be enough space for an ISO download, but what about dd'ing the already booted drive to another? :D
<shauno> hm.  I can't see any reason it shouldn't work, but I'd still file it under "have fun with that"
<daftykins> totally :D
<zmoylan-pi> fire up dosbox and do it from there :-P
<shauno> lady at the book shop asked me I have a student card.  bless her.  maybe 15 years ago :/
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> i have been asked that in last year as well.  i'm 45 this year, i blame my tux baseball cap :-)
<Azelphur> Don't suppose anyone here is interested in clubbing in for some cheap offsite backup space?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that teletext stuff looks awesome :)
<daftykins> lovely teardown of that latest Dell XPS 13 - https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Dell+XPS+13+Teardown/36157
<popey> phwoar!
<daftykins> soldered RAM :(
<daftykins> Azelphur: bit weird to be offered bitcoins for helping out in #ubuntu - heh
<Azelphur> daftykins: take em, moneys money :)
<daftykins> well, i tried to point to donating to Kodi instead since it's all about the free help. i don't know the first thing about coin storage or what not
<Azelphur> Step 1) Get Electrum, Step 2) You can now accept coins
<daftykins> o rly
<sebsebseb> Azelphur: Elecrum is that the Bitcoin wallet  you recommend?
<sebsebseb> link?
<daftykins> .org i see
<Azelphur> https://electrum.org/
<sebsebseb> yeah not sure which one to go fo really
<sebsebseb> did use a site the other day that pays a little bitcoin for chatting
<daftykins> pay for chat 0o
<sebsebseb> got to be on it a lot to get a proper bitcoin though
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yeah, but not much
<sebsebseb> more about being a chat community than actsaully paying people bitcoins
<sebsebseb> daftykins: bitcoin be split up into lots of milli bitcoins before even having one
<sebsebseb> minilli mini whaterver it's called
<sebsebseb> milli mini whatever it's called
 * sebsebseb with enough bitcoin could buy the Humble Bundle at least, which would be nicer probably really than paying real cash for that
<sebsebseb> kind of used /me wrongly there, but oh well
<daftykins> ;D
<sebsebseb> seems the best way to earn bitcoins is from bitcoin gambling  sites though,  or well that's my understanding anyway, so hmm at that
<daftykins> i was just watching some Sopranos episodes last night where some people make some big gambling losses, such mugs!
<daftykins> i just cringe at that
<sebsebseb> oh
<sebsebseb> daftykins: heh you reminded me I got a mug on the floor at the moment,  that  should go back in the bag or something for the time being, untill it's actsauly going to get used, a postressql mug in fact
<daftykins> :D
<sebsebseb> heh was meant to buy two last year, but got them this year instead
<sebsebseb> and  the last two as well  at FOSDEM :d
<sebsebseb> daftykins: walking on a mug proabbly woudn't be so nice :d ,but I know it's there
<daftykins> beats a UK mains plug :)
<sebsebseb> a UK mains mug oh?
<daftykins> nah plug, for the standing on
<sebsebseb> oh?
<daftykins> yeah, wouldn't recommend it :) that's one of those childhood lessons you learn once
<sebsebseb> what to not walk on a mug?
<daftykins> on a mains plug! :)
<sebsebseb> ah right
<sebsebseb> well  when it's connected sure
<sebsebseb> not the best idea
<sebsebseb> or depending on...
<sebsebseb> who bought an Ubuntu Phone from here today anyway?  other than popey
<daftykins> nor when they're on the floor upturned
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yeah I guess
<sebsebseb> daftykins: how many years have you done #ubuntu support for now by the way 10?
<sebsebseb> 8?
<sebsebseb> 6?
<daftykins> i guess i've been lurking on freenode off and on for at least 8-9 years yeah
<sebsebseb> yes  pretty sure your name was there, when I used to help out often in there (or try to)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> helping or hindering as i like to say
<sebsebseb> hindering how so?
<daftykins> just in jest
<sebsebseb> oh ok I guess
<daftykins> obviously i don't mislead people
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yeah you do to pay you thousands worth of btcoins :d  that's why that person earlier was like, I'll pay you bitcon :D
<sebsebseb> daftykins: nah I am joking :d
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> yep it's all a secret funding venture
<sebsebseb> yeah you bad boy daftykins  and you said it was all volunteer and your profiting big time off it in  bitcoins :d heh heh
<daftykins> ;_;
<davmor2> daftykins: not often you don't ;)
<daftykins> lol
<Azelphur> daftykins: plan is succeeding, 6 out of 8TB is gone now :P
<daftykins> \o/
<Azelphur> daftykins: and now only 1TB remains >:)
<Azelphur> daftykins: aww yis, order placed, 7 x 1.5TB drives, muhahaha.
<daftykins> a friends 8 x 2TB RAID6 is a bit old now, need to consider 8 new disks to build a newer one to have some in-warranty disks
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> if he's selling 2TB drives cheap...
<Azelphur> :)
<daftykins> buying disks that've been spinning solidly for many years *might* not be too wise :)
 * Azelphur shrugs
<daftykins> and nah, ideally i want to throw them into another setup as backup
<daftykins> but even an 8-bay unpopulated NAS is Â£Â£Â£
<daftykins> it is on a 16-port controller as-is but it'd be nice to put it at the end of his garden as 'off-site'
<Azelphur> daftykins: I dislike NAS devices
<Azelphur> I bought a HP Microserver, it's about the same price, and it's a full PC that can do so much more.
<Azelphur> takes 4 drives as standard, 6 and an SSD with a small hack.
<daftykins> yeah, but the server as-is is already a full PC
<daftykins> so don't need another one
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> so far I only have a 2 and a 5 in it, which is working fine for me, plenty of room for expansion
<daftykins> already got 2 consumery two bay NASs up in the off-site building
<daftykins> ah, this is the one where we paid a kid to rip all his DVDs and have 4 x XBMC HTPCs around the house to play them
<daftykins> so the 12TB is near full
<Azelphur> damn
<Azelphur> if I was given that job, I'd buy a lego mindstorms kit and automate it.
<daftykins> i've never come up with a happy way to rip his blurays though, just not easy enough to make it a task his secretary can do - which is what he wants
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> we had the little nettop HTPCs already so i did one basic XP install, years ago, then cloned it to the other 3 - with RDP enabled
<daftykins> all 4 stacked together with a switch 8D
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> but yeah, even makemkv isn't really ideal to get his secretary ripping his BDs
<daftykins> so the collection isn't really growing atm
<Azelphur> :p
<shauno> oooh, t-10mins, and they don't have any excuses so far
<daftykins> what's this you're watching? :)
<shauno> the spacex falcon9 launch
<shauno> I think/hope this is the one where they try to land the launch-stage
<shauno> if it's not, I'm going to feel kinda pooped that I've watched them cancel it so many times :|
<daftykins> shauno: when i googled spacex i got "SpaceX is still tracking towards a 6:03pm ET liftoff of DSCOVR, but unfortunately we will not be able to attempt to recover the first stage of the..."
<shauno> well pants
<daftykins> http://www.spacex.com/press/2015/02/11/dscovr-launch-update
<shauno> I did watch the ESA one this afternon though.  that was kinda fun
<daftykins> sorry to be the bearer of bad news :(
<shauno> except they were all talking in french
<daftykins> sacre bleu
<shauno> oh well.  they can try to do it in the water then.  as long as there's explosions I'm a happy kerbal :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i shall watch along too since it's so close
<daftykins> go go gadget fullscreen
<shauno> rockets just never get boring
<shauno> (and it's secretly fun when they get exciting  heh)
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> 599m/sec, aww yis
<daftykins> 1468m/sec :O
<daftykins> 2350 \o/
<daftykins> pretty neat mission, just read
<daftykins> someone seemed to have just put a stargate up on the screen for a second then
<shauno> heh
<shauno> the esa one this afternoon was pretty neat too
<shauno> testing a re-entry vehicle.  so they launched a shuttle the size of a large car, from one side of south america to the other.  the long way 'round
<shauno> kinda sent it up to about the same altitude as the ISS, then fired it back to the floor at 20x speed of sound
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> but it was purdy.  very fast ascent.  and the mini-shuttle looks like .. well, audi designed a shuttle  lol
<daftykins> heh, go back to my TV ep and there was 5 seconds left
<shauno> aww
<daftykins> it's really odd how some series don't have any editions better than DVD
<daftykins> case in point, "24"
<daftykins> first 6 seasons can't be had in better than SD
<shauno> > Rocket soft landed in the ocean within 10m of target & nicely vertical! High probability of good droneship landing in non-stormy weather.
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-12
<daftykins> :D :D
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> international oh flip it's thursday day :-)
<MooDoo> yay thursday
<mapp> yay
<mapp> hi MooDoo
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: hows the brain this morning?
<MooDoo> davmor2: just ordered a couple of hard drives to put in a spare server, so I can install MAAS on it
<MooDoo> take it from there
<davmor2> MooDoo: nice :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: not that it's hard to do, looks a standard install, but you just tell it that it's a first MAAS setup and it does the rest for you [I watched a vid on it]
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Lost Penny Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<MooDoo> and JamesTait
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<JamesTait> brobostigon, popey, MooDoo: o/
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<davmor2> JamesTait: Find a penny pick it up all day long you'll have a penny
<zmoylan-pi> and a sore back if you're not careful as you get older
<ThomasRedstone> davmor2, and if you're Bill Gates you'll have wasted around Â£300 of time...
<zmoylan-pi> and have thrown off the crazed linux snipers... :-P
<awilkins> Arrgh, chosing a NAS
<awilkins> WAnt ; 2 bay NAS that does RAID 1
<awilkins> Candidates so far : Asus AS5002T ; newer shinier hardware with moah powah (100Mbyte/s transfer speeds)
<awilkins> Netgear ReadyNAS 102 : less new less shiny hardware (50Mbyte/s) but uses btrfs for it's file system
<awilkins> (Asus one uses boring old ext4)
<awilkins> Sod it, will go with the Asus
<awilkins> Has an x86_64 processor, Netgear one is Marvell/ARM
<diddledan> I think I'm gonna go get some chocolate to soothe my aches and pains and cough
<diddledan> there's nothing more thereputic than binge-eating :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: oh come on hitting F5 to get an ubuntu phone yesterday can't of worn you out that much ;)
<diddledan> davmor2, I got some kind of flu (don't say manflu! :-p)
<davmor2> diddledan: oh a slight sniffle ;)
<diddledan> aye, it's knocked me sideways for over a week now
<popey> haha
<diddledan> popey, how very callous to laugh at the afflicted :-p
<MooDoo> davmor2: fedup will work if i link it to apt-get ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahaha
<diddledan> o_O
<brobostigon> apt-get install coffee-input-plugin
<MooDoo> diddledan: i said I was fedup, and davmor2 said that won't work on Ubuntu ;
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> ash
<diddledan> aah**
<davmor2> diddledan: you're missing the context on facebook :)
<MooDoo> it was quite funny
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
<bigcalm> Any more for any more at http://doodle.com/4sdaaswwngu4n2bm ?
<bigcalm> I'm closing the poll later today
 * diddledan feels his calm embiggened
<bigcalm> o.O
<diddledan> poor attempt at nick-related humour :-p
<bigcalm> I get it a lot
<bigcalm> Though I'm usually mistaken for a big clam
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> a nick I used to go by alot was "Fremen" pronounced like the tribal group on arrakis' name but despite my constant prodding people would insist on calling me "Free man"
<diddledan> and of course on less geeky places it would evoke comments about "Gordon Freeman" from the half-life games
<awilkins> They backported the Unity notification numeric indicators from Utopic to Trusty I think
<diddledan> nowai?
<diddledan> what are those? :-p
<Azelphur> well uhh, that server I was talking about yesterday, Hetzner appear to have just given it to us and not billed us
<zmoylan-pi> shhhhhhhh
<zmoylan-pi> you'll jinx it
<Azelphur> lol
<sebalicious> Hey guys, I did just ask over at #ubuntu but I don't think anyone there knows: Has anyone had any success building fglrx 14.12 on the 14.9 kernel?
<popey> probably nobody there did it
 * popey doesn't use amd video cards
<sebalicious> Radeon are a bit of good and bad with linux at times
<sebalicious> I can get it to build with 3.18.6 no worries, but on 3.19 it fails with no glaringly obvious error
<sebalicious> http://pastebin.com/juB7wkiP
<bigcalm>  I've been tasked with finding myself a machine from Dell for the office. Some of the machines are coming with AMD/ATI cards with 4 HDMI ports on them. No idea if they work with linux though
<zmoylan-pi> don't they sell systems with ubuntu these days?
<intrbiz> sebalicious: according to the release notes it's not supported against 3.19
<intrbiz> sebalicious: I suspect there are changes in the kernel which the fglrx code hasn't been updated to support
<intrbiz> sebalicious: eg, __get_cpu_var of include/linux/percpu-defs.h has been moved around etc
<intrbiz> bigcalm: I used to use AMD card with dual head no worries at last job
<intrbiz> bigcalm: IRRC for dual head + glx you need the fglrx driver and use the catalyst control centre to configure the monitors
<Laney> aaaaaaaahhhhh
<bigcalm>  intrbiz I think that having all of the heads on one card will be fairly usable
<Laney> why do I still have that helpful virgin DNS thing turned on?
<DJones> Laney: PEBKAC
<intrbiz> bigcalm: yeh, one card many heads is the most reliable solution usually
<Laney> NO
<Laney> PEBVAC
<Laney> 'virus safe' was turned on
<Laney> seems to have fixed it
<intrbiz> bigcalm: how many displays are you after?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: 3
<bigcalm> intrbiz: it's what I have at home
<intrbiz> bigcalm: used to use Dell Optiplex 9020 SFF, with AMD gfx cards and all dual head, mostly running Ubuntu
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> I think it's time to leave Shrewsbury
<bigcalm> So I shall look at finding a machine once I get home
<sebsebseb> yay I am on Giffgaff now
<sebsebseb> :)
<popey> That's good, right?
<diddledan> lol: http://www.geek.com/apps/police-respond-to-twitter-bot-sending-death-threat-to-another-twitter-bot-1615550/
<sebsebseb> popey: yes
<sebsebseb> popey: I thin I won't bother porting over my old number to,  so I guess I should just ring htem up again to make really cler I want to still leave
<sebsebseb> bye Orange//EE
<daftykins> sebsebseb: just don't dump them on Saturday
<sebsebseb> daftykins: heh
<sebsebseb> yeah
<sebsebseb> daftykins: ,but it was never a love hate relationship,  it was more of a dislike relationship,  since  I got a rather bad contract really with the subsided phone I gogt
<daftykins> ah :(
<sebsebseb> plus they been making a bit more money out of me recnetly in recent mnths as a result to
<daftykins> we have less competition down here on Guernsey, so picking a telco was never too tough
<sebsebseb> yes going over the minutes which were hardly any as well
<sebsebseb> 100 minutes is a joke when you actsauly start phoning  someone enough
<sebsebseb> I'll save money like this to
<sebsebseb> :)
<sebsebseb> altough that wuld probably just get spent on other things instead that amount, but anyway :d
<daftykins> ;)
<sebsebseb> daftykins:  I was paying like well I thought itw as Â£10
<daftykins> i could afford 2 beers a month if i cut my contract down
<sebsebseb> or maybe it was for a while
<sebsebseb> then
<sebsebseb> yah Â£15 or whatever, but for sucky contrac,t ok phone got subside or whatever, but hmm
<daftykins> i go SIM only, phone subsidy is a waste :D
<sebsebseb> anything more htan Â£10 is a bit much in my case really,  since  not phoneing lots of people etc
<sebsebseb> or texting lots
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yes I won't do a sub sided phone again
<sebsebseb> got  this Samsung Galaxy S3 Mini via phones 4 u  about two years agothough,  but that was then and yeah
<sebsebseb> now I got a Jolla phone :)
<sebsebseb> soon I will hopefully be able to get an Ubuntu Phone to
<sebsebseb> daftykins: would have got hte Nexus 4 like two years ago, but was sold out then so
 * sebsebseb waits for Wednesday,  since will play a little joke on somoene with the new number heh
<daftykins> i'm hoping to wean myself off the new phone habits, i buy retail down here to get unlocked handsets that can be used in England etc
<sebsebseb> daftykins: maybe it's god to change number in my case now really I mean I even in the autummm had some kind of app  subscribed to my number
<sebsebseb> ,but I never subscried to that
<sebsebseb> and got charged Â£4 a week for like two months, when wasnt' really using my phone to since something,  and then I find out hmm
<sebsebseb> daftykins: so you get a bill for like Â£30  andyeah
<daftykins> ouch
<daftykins> never had that thankfully
<sebsebseb> so rang  the thing up the contact number
<sebsebseb> and they stopped the app
<sebsebseb> ,but the guy was like you shoudl email.... for a refund, however never really got  round to it...
<sebsebseb> could try now, but I guess it's Â£30 down the drain either way
<sebsebseb> daftykins: then  occassionly you get these unknown odd calls to,  or voices messages left etc
<sebsebseb> daftykins: uknown call whilst at the cinema watching a film even, but my phone was quite silient :d,  but could feel it in the pocket
<sebsebseb> daftykins: Gurensey I wa wondering  like last ight where you were from since  you were in #ubuntu stil l active ike an American and it was like 3am or something :d
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> yeah i'm on pretty messed up time you could say.
<shauno> "one of us" :)
<sebsebseb> Gurensey  is  kind of interesitng I guess,but not been there, and it's small
<sebsebseb> shauno: your an American?
<shauno> nah, another one with my own personal timezone
<daftykins> sebsebseb: i have some snaps if you'd like to see - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/em6gqyhhbc4e01p/AABQs8TfctEw71KQk337hhTFa?dl=0
<diddledan> I've been unable to keep to odd hours the past week
<diddledan> I suck at being abnormal
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> wanna trade?
<diddledan> yeah, you can have my fluey thing
<shauno> pic 17/28 - a customs mailbox?  and what's the second language on it?
<diddledan> shauno, that's a chav name
<diddledan> "douane, get shantelle and take her to mcdonalds"
<daftykins> nooooo no more illness thanks, only just 'normal' again after the shingles thing :>
<diddledan> I feel ya
<daftykins> shauno: French probably :) yeah foreigners can moor up in the harbour so... they must have to do some paperwork
<diddledan> so if you brought something to guernsey illegally, you pop it in the postbox?
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> i've never looked closely at those, i'll have a glance sometime maybe
<diddledan> I wonder how the paperwork is enforced when someone turns up and doesn't file papers and then leaves again?
<shauno> there's probably an old lady feeding duck, who glares sternly and tuts
<diddledan> is that the correct collective noun?
<shauno> nope, I can't type well when I'm sideways
<diddledan> or should I read it as "an old-lady-feeding duck"?
<shauno> I'm supposed to be packing, but I just started watching 'house of cards'
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> oops?
<shauno> 4 or 5 episodes in and I'm not even sure where my suitcase is.  this won't end well
<diddledan> daftykins, there's some serious green in this one: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/em6gqyhhbc4e01p/AACR3ARWlM8NiG3jVbdCB2o_a/IMG_20130812_182944.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> diddledan: that's the British Isles closest Church to a Pub, i believe
<daftykins> at least they used to tout that claim
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> the separation of Church and Booze
<shauno> I was gonna say dublin has a pub in a church, but it seems it's not a church anymore
 * popey returns
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of churches aren't churches anymore
<shauno> seems like a fair trade to me, ireland needs more pubs ;)
<zmoylan-pi> a lot fewer pubs too. prices are too high and drink driving limit lowered to levels where sniffing a wine gum puts you at risk
<mapp> hi all
<shauno> I finally sold my car. that was a whole lot more effort than it was worth
<diddledan> teehee: http://geekxgirls.com/article.php?ID=1878
<mapp> whats up
<diddledan> allo mapp
<diddledan> byebye mapp - I'm off to bed
<ali1234> oh, i see the problem here
<ali1234> raspbian uses rpi-update to download the foundation kernel
<ali1234> oops wrong channel
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> ;]
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-13
<mapp> hmm
<mapp> think i should start using a password manager
<mapp> reusing passwords too often!
<mapp> daftykins you use pgp? i always start using it then endup not bothering
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> all a bit overly paranoid computer use if you ask me
<shauno> there's maybe 2 sites I'm actually paranoid for.  for most disposable stuff, I use one of .. three? passwords.  and then just modify each one with the first letter of the site's name
<mapp> tey always say reusing passwords is super insecure
<mapp> when retailers get data breaches haxers try the details at loadsa places
<shauno> sure.  and they're right.
<shauno> my issue is, I simply don't care about the huge majority of sites I have to login to
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> i do the same, same password but salted for a lot of sites
<shauno> most sites probably shouldn't have passwords.  that'd make it much easier.  nothing to steal.
<shauno> I mean, I have no idea what my steam password is, because I so rarely have to use it
<shauno> once in a while it gets bored and asks, and I get to send me an email.  then I set a new one, a promptly forget it
<shauno> there'd really be nothing to lose if they gave up pretending I have a password, and just got me to answer my email whenever I stayed logged out for long enough
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i try to keep people away from letting browsers or programs saving passwords as much as possible
<daftykins> main guy i look after has taken to allowing firefox to store passwords, without a master password on his travelling laptop
<daftykins> he has a slight habit of leaving phones and laptops on planes
<daftykins> he refuses SIM passwords or smartphone key/pattern locks
<shauno> my browser has a few creditcard numbers stored.  it's hilarious
<shauno> because they were numbers we were given for testing some ecommerce stuff at work.  they're not, and never have been remotely real
<daftykins> wat o0
<mapp> sounds insecure
<mapp> ah
<daftykins> XD
<mapps> jmm
<mapps> my nets so slow tonight
<daftykins> you stopped paying the full rate by now i hope? ;)
<mapps> nah
<shauno> anyway.  back in a few days, off to bratislava again :/
<mapps> why the ;/ ?
<shauno> because I'd rather not be waiting for a taxi at 3am
<shauno> but since ryanair fly at the crack of dawn, I have to be out of here at dawn-3
<mapps> oh
<daftykins> =/
<daftykins> shauno: i don't even know where that is o0
<mapps> workaholics is soo funny
<mapps> :D
<mapps> prob my favourite comedy
<daftykins> i'm watching old "24" Season 2
<daftykins> shauno: keep safe anyway :)
<mapps> nice
<mapps> seen it before yea?
<daftykins> yep :) long long ago though
<daftykins> plus now it's in HD \o/
<daftykins> albeit you can't even get seasons 1-6 on bluray =|
<mapps> hm
<mapps> i started watching s1 again a while back
<daftykins> i can't repeat that one :) know it too well
<daftykins> i originally watched that sucker back in ~2003 when it was on BBC2 for the first time :D
<daftykins> routine was get home from school, gf come over, kick her out before it started, enjoy \o/
<mapps> sunny in philly is so so so funny
<mapps> lol
<mapps> hm new pacino film
<mapps> what ep u on daftykins
<daftykins> errr ~8 already i think
<daftykins> i'm so hooked O_O
<daftykins> i just shared this in another chan...
<daftykins> girl and bf are trying to escape town with her babysitting job kid, in the fathers car, when they're pulled over for speeding. they're taking the kid because they're rescuing her from her abusive father. cop is just about to let them go when he spots blood dripping from the trunk, turns out the father killed the mother and she's in the trunk \o/
<daftykins> oops that's spoilerific, probably shouldn't have told you :S
<mapps> :D
<mapps> whats that from
<daftykins> 24 season 2
<mapps> h
<mapps> mm
<mapps> dont remember;) its so long since i saw it
<daftykins> i forgot just how many things per episode happen
<mapps> :D
<mapps> loved 24
<mapps> so much
<daftykins> so funny them using nokia 3310s in this series
<daftykins> :>
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> i remember my mates having those in school
<daftykins> y'know one of my mates dads died last Friday :/
<daftykins> he flew back from Australia, he'd only been gone a couple of weeks
<mapps> that sucks
<mapps> what from
<daftykins> well he's lived in pretty much perpetual pain, bad road accident whilst young
<daftykins> lived without a few organs i think
<mapps> =[[
<daftykins> quite the surprise hearing that
<daftykins> one mate was off to England for one of our others 30ths this weekend, he's coming here instead now
<mapps> how many ppl live where you are
<daftykins> they always state 65,000 island population, but i reckon there's more
<daftykins> illegals
<daftykins> hehe actor from Sopranos showing up in 24
<mapps> who?
<daftykins> not sure on the guy, he's just in both
<mapps> hmm americans and arrow left to watch
<daftykins> mapps: this guy btw - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002326/
<mapps> sec
<daftykins> http://sopranos.wikia.com/wiki/Mikey_Palmice
<daftykins> played this guy in Sopranos
<mapps> just reading artiles on ISIS..crazy how that part of the world is
<mapps> beheadings in public squares on a daily basis..kids watching..
<mapps> sopranos was good
<daftykins> loved it \o/ i'm near the end on my bluray say rewatch
<daftykins> shouldn't have picked up 24 really
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> but it's my 30th on Tuesday - an old lady friend was meant to come over, but she bailed 'caus she's a miserable... *beep*
<daftykins> we intended to watch it together :P
<mapps> =[
<mapps> hm cant sleep
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Radio Day! :-D
<knightwise> morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: me flicks on Absolute 80's
<sebsebseb> grr Orange
<zmoylan-pi> colours that make us angry? :-)
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: no mobile phone networks that do
<zmoylan-pi> ah well, is there a mobile phone network that does not make it's users angry?
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: might be stuck with another 30 days with them now ah
<sebsebseb> so two sims then two networks uh
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: I have to try and use the pac code I was given, but might be to late now
<sebsebseb> 30 day notice rubbish, or I can request to canel account, but that would be 30 days ago
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: not as simpel as just  ringing up an getting disconnected
<sebsebseb> probably a way to get more money out of people realy
<JamesTait> davmor2, I prefer Classic Rock. ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: here's one for you - https://play.spotify.com/user/slicingeyeballs/playlist/1oAsmOxhFDuobwQDEYxFt0
<zmoylan-pi> i dunno, classic rock is only 1 k-tel cd away from cliff richard :-)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon how ar you
<brobostigon> hi knightwise , not so bad, and you?
<davmor2> MooDoo: No lots of track missing there....nothing from NWA, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Prince, Guns'n'roses, Bon jovi, Def Leopard, Iron Maiden, Queen, run dmc, Marc Morrison, Ottowan the list goes on and on and on
<davmor2> MooDoo: this is better https://play.spotify.com/user/1232712326/playlist/4Mj28XAnKNoeTMGdLzcLte and then there is https://play.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/4sXUFBP520n3SC2o8bg0TF too
<davmor2> JamesTait: I have to ask do you have a morning script or do you actually just copy and paste to every channel?
<JamesTait> davmor2, neither - I use the up arrow to repeat the same message in each channel. ;)
 * JamesTait does the walk of shame.
<JamesTait> In my defence, I don't always post the greeting in the same channels, and I don't always post the same greeting in each channel.
<diddledan> JamesTait, you mean different channels are on different celebrations?!
<diddledan> JamesTait, how very divisive!
<davmor2> diddledan: but you win 1000 nothings if you manage to spot the difference
<diddledan> davmor2, a whole thousand?!
<diddledan> davmor2, I could get rich selling all those
<davmor2> diddledan: it's a nice round number
<davmor2> for x in range(999): print "Nothing" > diddledan
<davmor2> diddledan: have 1000 on the house
<diddledan> you need the ii irc client to do that
<diddledan> ref: http://tools.suckless.org/ii/
<diddledan> although I think they could improve it by not having separate "in" and "out"
<diddledan> just have a fifo socket
<diddledan> that you also send stuff to
<diddledan> the daemon can probably work out whether it is incoming or outgoing methinks?
<Azelphur> You know you're a sysadmin when you're doing 3 OS installs simultaneously over KVM... https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=bc9bb9a8f514c09a0d12152f6cca0b3b
<zmoylan-pi> or a pirate :-)
<Azelphur> why would pirates install lots of OS's? o.O
<zmoylan-pi> shhh, you're too young to remember :-)
<Azelphur> lol
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, my copy of xp was legit. honest.
<diddledan> that were the days when you had to buy everything
<diddledan> I got loads of stuff free back then because I had to buy it
<zmoylan-pi> back in the days of windows for workgroups my boss bought 1 copy of the upgrade from windows 3.1 to windows for workgroups 3.11 WITH disks. and a few dozen licences WITHOUT disks.  so i spent months using that one set of disks upgrading customers.  really felt dodgy even if i sellotaped the licences to the cases
<zmoylan-pi> i think he saved about irÂ£50 by only getting one set of disks :-/
 * bashrc watches video of popey doing extreme ironing
<diddledan> extreme, ironing!
<bashrc> extreme ironing on a trampoline
<popey> uhoh
<diddledan> sounds dangrous
<diddledan> dangerous*
<diddledan> I'm assuming dan grous is someone important?
<dogmatic69_> http://www.iflscience.com/technology/alan-turing-s-code-breaking-papers-discovered-stuffed-roof-holes-bletchley-park
<awilkins_> Hooray for make-do and mend
<sebsebseb> popey: yay two networks for aboutt 30 since  Orange and ther sily 30 day notice thing and...
<sebsebseb> 30 days above
<sebsebseb> yes I was being sarcastic, altoug at least i got two phones I can use :D
<sebsebseb> apparantly transferng number over wasn't so optional,  needed to do it to cancel as well.  since hadn't just said to cancel, so now got to pay them again ah
<knightwise> Oh boy
<knightwise> i went ahead and did it
<knightwise> Ubuntu = Now running on my surface pro
<zmoylan-pi> so things can run on a surface pro \o/
<knightwise> allmost everying worked out of the box. still having some issues with teh wifi and the keyboard , but it looks pretty ok
<diddledan> it's friday: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0
<diddledan> knightwise, what about the pen?
<diddledan> knightwise, awesome, btw
<diddledan> the surface pro is a pretty decent piece of kit
<knightwise> The display is gorgeous and its pretty fast
<knightwise> pen works , but no right click
<zmoylan-pi> hard to right click with a pen :-)
<knightwise> touchpad, surface pro type cover ... wifi , audio , all works
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: it has an extra button to right click
<zmoylan-pi> i did once tell a person new to a palm pda to right click with stylus.  he looked at stylus with such a look.  i meant to click context menu option on silk screen :-)
<knightwise> Lol :) Fair point
<knightwise> man .. screen is awesome on this thing.
<zmoylan-pi> microsoft for a software compnay produces some of the best hardware.  apple the hardware company produces some of the best software.  there's a lesson there somewhere...
<awilkins> Some styluses have a button on them for right-click
<zmoylan-pi> which means they usually need batteries which is not a good thing to my mind
<awilkins> Nuh, I have two drawing tablets with no batteries in the pen
<awilkins> They support clicks other than left
<awilkins> I think they might even support two kinds of clicks
<zmoylan-pi> how does the button work then?
<awilkins> I'm guessing they have different capacitances wired up to the buttons
<awilkins> Touch panels are all capacitive
<zmoylan-pi> better than batteries but also sounds like not a cheap replacement for when the styluses go walkabout
<awilkins> Probably not, but these are dedicated drawing tablets with variable pressure stylus nibs, etc
<zmoylan-pi> i've never lost a stylus (touches wood) but some people seem to go through them like nobodies business
<awilkins> The Mother In Law is the chief menace to things with multiple components that aren't wired together around here
<zmoylan-pi> when i got my 3rd psion organiser i used the stylus from my first psion 5 as i thought it looked nicer
<awilkins> Palm had a slot for the stylus
<zmoylan-pi> i did once lose a lose palm pen/stylus combo when sprinting for the bus but i found it the next day so i don't count that as a proper loss
<awilkins> I wish these tablets had clips, rather than just a recess to stop them rolling around
<zmoylan-pi> the original palm had 2 identical slots on either side so you could move the flip cover and stylus to opposite sides for lefties which was great idea
<awilkins> I had a PalmIII ; the flipcover went up, not left or right
<awilkins> Still have it somewhere I think
<zmoylan-pi> on the iii it did i think the dual one was the original palm 1000
<zmoylan-pi> i had the iiix
<awilkins> I was very fond of it
<zmoylan-pi> iiic, 125, e and a visor neo.
<zmoylan-pi> great device
<awilkins> And the original Graffiti
<awilkins> Not the stupid Intellectual Property crippled one
<zmoylan-pi> original graffitti yes, graffitti 2 was icky
<awilkins> Another fine example of bloody patents being a PITA
<zmoylan-pi> sim city on the palm was excellent
<awilkins> Like Nintendo Virtual Console games not supporting rumblepak
<zmoylan-pi> reptoids, minesweeper
<zmoylan-pi> run for a week off 2 aaa batteries
<awilkins> If you play the emulated versions of N64 games that you got for Gamecube, they support Rumble just fine on Wii
<zmoylan-pi> great little ereader
<zmoylan-pi> avantgo
<awilkins> Yeah.
<awilkins> I wanted to port PalmOS to the DS
<zmoylan-pi> it sync before i left for bus and i had avantgo with 20-30 newsfeeds to keep me reading for hours
<zmoylan-pi> kodaks palmpix was a great little add on camera.  got some great photos with it
<zmoylan-pi> or the stowaway keyboard for when you needed a full size fold up keyboard
<zmoylan-pi> beaming info between devices was so elegant
<awilkins> You can still kinda sorta do that with NFC
<awilkins> But only if both phones support it, obvs.
<zmoylan-pi> haven't any devices with nfc.
<zmoylan-pi> and bt can be a right pain
<awilkins> Yup
<awilkins> QR code : not everyone has an app for it ; NFC : not everything has the hardware  ; BT : stupid pairing / security issues
<zmoylan-pi> in meetings with a mate and we could beam stuff between us as we 'took notes'
<zmoylan-pi> i do use qr codes for a lot of what i used to beam between palms
<awilkins> My N900 has an IRDA port
<awilkins> Mum's Galaxy Tab has an emitter for TV control
<zmoylan-pi> and the app that turned your palm in to a tv remote where you could draw the buttons and copy remotes to the drawn buttons
<awilkins> Yup, used to use that
<diplo> My LG G2 has that feature on it as well, universal remote with ir
<davmor2> man no wonder the internet died the other day https://twitter.com/virginmedia/status/566260872092610560
<AppUbuntu> Afternoon.
<AppUbuntu> Anyone want a free $100 bounty ? http://bit.ly/UTV_MailList
<popey> FREE MONEY!?
<AppUbuntu> well popey, not to frieghten you, but there is a small amount of setting up involved for UTV.
<popey> that makes no sense.
<AppUbuntu> what part ?
<popey> Well. Ubuntu TV is not currently actively being developed.
<AppUbuntu> still needs a mailing list.
<AppUbuntu> for future.
<popey> well, that's the other part that makes no sense
<popey> there already is a list
<AppUbuntu> where ?
<popey> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-tv/
<popey> (I made the list I think)
<bashrc> Ubuntu TV, hell yeah!
<popey> can I have the $100?
<popey> :)
<AppUbuntu> yep.
<Myrtti> easy money!
 * popey marks the bug fix-released
<AppUbuntu> be nice if you put tge mailing list address in the bug solution.
<mapps> hi all
<popey> i did
<popey> amusingly the bug was filed against the very project the list is attached to!
<AppUbuntu> k, well done. have a happy valentines.
<popey> you too!
<popey> \o/
<popey> <3
<popey> etc
<AppUbuntu> where is a list of all the mailing lists ? just so I know ?
<AppUbuntu> popey, Last question: What are the chances of getting Openshot in 16.04 as a native application ?
<Myrtti> what does "as a native application" mean
<AppUbuntu> in the DVD.
<AppUbuntu> or, I mean, first class citizen.
<popey> unlikely
<popey> it needs non-free nonsense doesn't it?
<popey> also, we put a video editor on the cd years ago
<popey> and it wasn't a popular move
<davmor2> popey: and the rate the unity8 team are going it would need mir support too ;)
<AppUbuntu> shame, I really like it, / Not sure about non-free stuff thou. anyway I'd better go before I get annoying. bye all.
<bashrc> mind you, years ago video editors on linux were not very good and not as many people did video editing
<popey> o/
<popey> true
<popey> I'd rather have kdenlive than openshot on the cd
<popey> because kdenlive actually works without crashing every time you blink
<davmor2> popey: hey that's not fair you don't always have time to blink
<popey> get back to qa, you!
<davmor2> popey: :P
<davmor2> popey: you're not my dad, you can't tell me what to do :P
<popey> :D
<diddledan> googley helpouts is no more
<diddledan> I don't think I ever did receive the invite and yet they're emailing me now to tell me it's dead
<zmoylan-pi> quick before it's shutdown they should offer goodle a help with not killing off stuff before it catches on
<zmoylan-pi> *google
<diddledan> how bad will this be? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSI:_Cyber
<diddledan> the fact that one of the cast's characters is defined as "cyber-hacker" kinda helps to lowball it
<mapps> hi all
<bashrc> hi
<mapps> ;
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> running win10 in vbox on my win8 laptop is so so slow
<mapps> unusable almost
<mapps> youtube banned at work now
<mapps> bah
<awilkins_> Wish they'd banned it at mine
<awilkins_> THe network speed was atrocious, but they had to allow it because upper management wanted it on
<dogmatic69> awilkins_: how about when upper management needs ports unblocked for torrents...
<awilkins_> Not so far
<awilkins_> I work at home now anyway
<dogmatic69> All the staff slacking there ;)
<awilkins_> My home network just got large enough that I needed to convert an old wireless router into a switch
<dogmatic69> I think I have about 20 ip's on my lan
<awilkins_> I have a large number of IPs but most of them are for wireless devices
<awilkins_> Now I have 8 wired ports available for things instead of 4
<dogmatic69> I got a gig 8 port switch for all the printers etc
<awilkins_> Heh
<dogmatic69> couple rPi
<awilkins_> Hah
<awilkins_> THat was what pushed me over
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> and now I need a new one...
<dogmatic69> only just bought the b+
<awilkins_> Upstairs ; main desktop, new NAS
<awilkins_> port for the powerline ehternet
<awilkins_> And a 100m cable for various things
<awilkins_> Which is usually the laptop these days for rsyncing VM images
<awilkins_> So much faster on a Gbit hhardline
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> I had that Eth over power
<dogmatic69> nice to not have cables, but slow
<dogmatic69> especially when you got 152Mb/s virgin
<awilkins_> I'm going to keep all the 100Mbit/s devices on that one
<awilkins_> That's on the other end of the powerline ; the old router only has 100Mbit ports
<awilkins_> 100Mbit/s virgin
<awilkins_> Had to get a new router, old one wouldn't route more than 20Mbit/s
<awilkins_> Hmm
<awilkins_> Going to put the Pis and things on the one downstairs
<awilkins_> Powerline is fast enough for Pi and Printer and media server
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-14
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> any of the night owls around;p
<zmoylan-pi> *bark*
<mapps> hi:D
<mapps> this show allegiance is cool
<mapps> hm dafty left so he was awake
<knightwise> good  morning everyone
<knightwise> morning everyone
 * zmoylan-pi guesses knightwise will try a greeting of 'everyone' around 11:30 based on current 2 datapoints :-) 
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MrIndeed> hey guys, i have no swap on ubuntu 14.04. It making my pc slow
<popey> not having swap doesn't make your pc slow.
<MrIndeed> no, before when i had swap my computer was working fine. Now, without it i have open 10 tabs on chrome and my pc tend to freeze
<MrIndeed> *i cant open 10 tabs
<popey> Typically when you have no swap and you run low on ram, things will start to get killed
<MrIndeed> by any chance, how can i add swap
<popey> how did you remove it?
<MrIndeed> i dont remember...
<popey> did you have some, which you disabled, or did you install without it?
<MrIndeed> i remember having swap when i installed ubuntu
<popey> in a terminal, type this command and paste the output
<popey> sudo fdisk -l
<popey> it will list all partitions on all disks
<MrIndeed> Disk /dev/sda: 80.0 GB, 80000000000 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9726 cylinders, total 156250000 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk identifier: 0x00000b63     Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System /dev/sda1   *        2048     3905535     1951744   82  Linux swap / Solaris /dev/sda2 
<popey> so you still have some swap configured
<popey> MrIndeed: can you paste the contents of /etc/fstab to http://paste.ubuntu.com please
<MrIndeed> do i click on paste?
<popey> yeah, put a nickname in and paste
<popey> it will give you a url
<popey> let me have that url
<MrIndeed> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10220251/
<popey> you have lots of linux installs?
<popey> can you :-
<popey> cat /etc/fstab
<popey> and put that on pastebin?
<MrIndeed> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10220349/
<popey> ok, so see line 19?
<popey> the # in front of it means it's commented out
<popey> you could edit the file, remove that single # from that line and save it, then reboot and you're done.
<popey> So, to edit the file:-
<popey> sudo nano /etc/fstab
<popey> (this will ask for your password)
<MrIndeed> okay
<MrIndeed> what should i edit
<popey> go down to line 19 (the one that has #UUID=6bf84c3d-00ce-4e5e-9f01-b191c1125b2d none            swap    sw              0       0
<popey> its the only line with # in front of UUID
<popey> just use cursor arrows to move to that line, and get rid of the hash only
<popey> then when done, press CTRL+X to save and exit
<MrIndeed> so i make #UUID=6bf84c3d-00ce-4e5e-9f01-b191c1125b2d to UUID=6bf84c3d-00ce-4e5e-9f01-b191c1125b2d
<popey> yes
<MrIndeed> it says "There is still a process running in this terminal. Closing the terminal will kill it."
<popey> did you ctrl+x to close nano?
<popey> and say "yes" when it asks to save?
<MrIndeed> when it says save modified buffer do i type yes or do i press y
<popey> yes, then enter
<MrIndeed> it still says swap not available
<popey> what says that?
<MrIndeed> system monitor
<popey> ok. editing the file is one part
<popey> there's two other things.
<popey> 1) reboot for the change to take effect
<popey> or
<popey> and/or
<popey> 2) type this command to activate swap immediately:-
<popey> sudo swapon -a
<MrIndeed> which one is the best option
<popey> well, do "sudo swapon -a" now, to test
<popey> and then run system monitor
<popey> if it says you have swap then you're done.
<popey> the reboot isn't _required_ it's just the quick-and-dirty way to make the change you made take effect
<MrIndeed> swapon: cannot find the device for UUID=6bf84c3d-00ce-4e5e-9f01-b191c1125b2d swapon: /dev/mapper/cryptswap1: stat failed: No such file or directory
<popey> oh dear
<popey> do you have lots of linux installs on that machine?
<popey> oh, no, just one, with lots of partitions?
<MrIndeed> one with lots of partitions
<popey> what if you "sudo swapon /dev/sda1" ?
<MrIndeed> swapon: /dev/sda1: read swap header failed: Invalid argument
<popey> ok, lets undo the change we made
<popey> sudo nano /etc/fstab
<popey> put the # back on line 19
<MrIndeed> how do i save
<popey> ctrl+x
<MrIndeed>  it wont close
<MrIndeed> the nano
<popey> what does it say when you do ctrl+x?
<MrIndeed> save modified file
<popey> so, say "yes" then enter
<MrIndeed> oh
<MrIndeed> okay
<popey> MrIndeed: what happens if you run "sudo swapon -s" ?
<MrIndeed> Filename				Type		Size	Used	Priority
<popey> thats it?
<popey> what about when you run "dmesg | grep swap" ?
<MrIndeed> nothing
<popey> hmm
<popey> we can reformat your swap partition, which should fix it.
<popey> sudo mkfs.swap /dev/sda1
<popey> ^ that will format the swap partition
<DJones> Just a thought, is the uud correct for the swap partion
<DJones> s/uud/uuid/
<popey> well it can't even manually mount it
<popey> 12:05 < MrIndeed> swapon: /dev/sda1: read swap header failed: Invalid argument
<DJones> Right
<MrIndeed> eh
<MrIndeed> sudo mkfs.swap /dev/sda1 sudo: mkfs.swap: command not found
<popey> oops
<popey> my bad
<popey> sudo mkswap /dev/sda1
<popey> so, run that, and it will format your swap partition
<popey> then you should be able to run:-
<popey> sudo swapon /dev/sda1
<popey> and it should be active?
<MrIndeed> Setting up swapspace version 1, size = 1951740 KiB no label, UUID=5b796113-7280-4ac7-9080-1c115a727b90
<MrIndeed> oh yes
<MrIndeed> it worked
<popey> ok, thats okay for this session
<popey> but we need to edit /etc/fstab again to make it permanent
<popey> so:-
<popey> sudo nano /etc/fstab
<popey> add a new line:-
<MrIndeed> make a new line?
<popey> UUID=5b796113-7280-4ac7-9080-1c115a727b90 none swap sw 0 0
<popey> ya
<MrIndeed> where do i put this new line
<popey> anywhere
<popey> it doesn't matter
<MrIndeed> at the buttom
<popey> thats fine
<popey> once you have added that line, we need to remove another line
<MrIndeed> okay
<popey> add a # to the /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 line
<popey> to the start
<MrIndeed> to this "/dev/mapper/cryptswap1 none swap sw 0 0"
<popey> ya
<MrIndeed> #/dev/mapper/cryptswap1 none swap sw 0 0
<popey> looks good.
<MrIndeed> and than save it?
<popey> yes
<MrIndeed> done
<popey> you should be good now. we can test it though
<popey> first, we can temporarily disable swap in this session:-
<MrIndeed> lets do that
<popey> sudo swapoff /dev/sda1
<MrIndeed> okay
<popey> then we can test the config you edited:-
<popey> sudo swapon -a
<MrIndeed> swapon: cannot find the device for UUID=5b796113-7280-4ac7-9080-1c115a727b90
<popey> wat
<MrIndeed> i know
<popey> this uuid stuf is nonsense :)
<popey> ok, edit the file again
<popey> sudo nano /etc/fstab
<popey> we can do it the old school way
<popey> change the line from UUID=5b796113-7280-4ac7-9080-1c115a727b90 none swap sw 0 0   to...
<popey> /dev/sda1 none swap sw 0 0
<MrIndeed> wait, did you tell me to put a '# on the new line
<MrIndeed> to this
<MrIndeed> sudo nano /etc/fstab
<MrIndeed> UUID=5b796113-7280-4ac7-9080-1c115a727b90 none swap sw 0 0
<popey> no, that line should look as you have it
<popey> just to confirm
<popey> do you want to paste the current state of it to http://paste.ubuntu.com ?
<popey> so we can see where we are?
<MrIndeed> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10220964/
<popey> i see nothing wrong there
<popey> but screw it, lets change it (or comment that line out and make a new one)
<popey> dev/sda1 none swap sw 0 0
<popey> er
<popey>  /dev/sda1 none swap sw 0 0
<MrIndeed> make a new line
<popey> ya
<MrIndeed> okay did that
<popey> ok, save
<popey> then try "sudo swapon -a" again?
<MrIndeed> no luck
<MrIndeed> swapon: cannot find the device for UUID=5b796113-7280-4ac7-9080-1c115a727b90
<popey> uh
<MrIndeed> wait
<popey> did you comment that line out?:)
<popey> (you need to # out that line)
<MrIndeed> swap showed up on system moniter
<popey> ok, so the last line worked, but it barfed on the UUID line
<popey> so you still need to comment that
<popey> by "comment" I mean put # in front of it
<MrIndeed> on what line
<popey> UUID=5b796113-7280-4ac7-9080-1c115a727b90 none swap sw 0 0
<popey> that one should have # in front
<MrIndeed> okay
<popey> I think we're done?
<MrIndeed> do we test?
<popey> sure
<popey> sudo swapoff /dev/sda1
<popey> sudo swapon -a
<MrIndeed> it works!!!
<popey> \o/
<popey> Great success.
<MrIndeed> one more thing, should swap remain at 0%?
<popey> it gets used as needed
<MrIndeed> you are awesome mate
<popey> heh
<popey> thanks
<MrIndeed> break a leg
<popey> \o/
<brobostigon> ubuntu on click, :)
<popey> the phone?
<brobostigon> on a normal pc.
<brobostigon> on dev pc's, in an american prison.
<brobostigon> or teaching pc's.
<brobostigon> teaching prisoners programming,.
<popey> ah okay, yeah. i saw a report about that
<brobostigon> ah
<mickybadia> #python
<diddledan> morning
<Myrtti> time of day
<diddledan> Universal Gretting Time
<bashrc> tzag
<knightwise> heyhey
<knightwise> hmmm wifi is dodgy on my Surface pro linux install
<knightwise> lots of dropped packets
<knightwise> ive seen this before
<knightwise> looks like ill have to setup a different NON-N wifi router
<penguin42> knightwise: Which chipset is the wireless? There's a set of intel chipsets I've seen people moan about
<diddledan> it's valentines day which means it's time to settle down and watch some bloody violence in a mancave
<zmoylan-pi> fifth element, love story with action comedy and sci fi :-)
<diddledan> heh, that's a good movie
<zmoylan-pi> it meets all your requirements
<knightwise> penguin42: How can i see that ?
<knightwise> Ive had some issues with wifi chipsets and my brand of router before (when I installed ubuntu on my macbook pro)
<knightwise> to be sure i've setup a second wifi access point with a different chipset and set to BG only.
<knightwise> so far it looks like the wifi performance is improving
<knightwise> now all I need to get working is the suspend or even hibernate functionality
<penguin42> knightwise: lspci
<knightwise> http://pastebin.com/y9Tqi7FL
<penguin42> knightwise: Fun, I don't see any wifi - so hmm maybe it's not pci
<penguin42> knightwise: maybe lsusb?
<knightwise> http://pastebin.com/i0qye7dy
<penguin42> knightwise: ah there you go
<penguin42> knightwise: It's the Marvell chip
<knightwise> Stupid spiderman :)
<knightwise> Marvel :)
<penguin42> knightwise: Yeh, it uses telepathy rather than wifi
<knightwise> LOL
<knightwise> ive hooked it up to the BG router and now it seems to be goin g ok
<knightwise> battery life is awesome here
<SuperEngineer> knightwise, just returned to pooter & read your "battery life is awesome" comment... you need a psychiatrist - you are not a battery ;)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> !info hpodder
<lubotu3> Package hpodder does not exist in utopic
<penguin42> good evening
<bigcalm> Seems to have been left behind in 12.04. What to do?
<penguin42> what was it?
<bigcalm> A podcatcher
<bigcalm> Looks to have been abandoned :(
<bigcalm> I need a headless podcast downloader
<popey> hpodder
<popey> oh
 * popey scrolls up
<bigcalm> Mopping up after upgrading my micro server from 12.04 to 14.04
<bigcalm> Good to see people still downloading ubuntu-mate-14.10-desktop-i386.iso from me
<bigcalm> Radio of 58 now
<popey> why not just grab hpodder from 12.04?
<bigcalm> If it works, fair enough
<bigcalm> Who controls the factoids on lubotu3 and how do I go about changing one of them?
<bigcalm> I recall going into a channel last year, but I don't recall which one
<popey> #ubuntu-irc
<bigcalm> Yeah, tracked down the info via lengthy googling
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<bigcalm> Nope, that's not updated yet
<popey> it wont if you dont update it :)
<bigcalm> I have. It's waiting on #ubuntu-ops to confirm the update
<bigcalm> I got an automated support ticket response to my mailing list post from powerpro+tidQVWSOBK39I@rhinosupport.com
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<davmor2> MooDoo: you about
<popey> bigcalm: bought my ticket
<popey> bigcalm: wat
<bigcalm> popey: yay
<bigcalm> popey: wat wat?
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<bigcalm> Might get changed at some point :)
 * bigcalm heads to bed
<zmoylan-pi> so instead of a booze cruise it's an ale rail :-)
<popey> hah
<popey> its really jolly good fun
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-15
<mapps> hi all
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> When one sees this in one's twitter feed:
<SuperEngineer> You have been chosen as todays *Prize*Patrol London pick  Claim at this page ...
<brobostigon> lol.
<SuperEngineer> [one does tend to lol at the entrapment effort!
<brobostigon> the idea has been implemented to con people, on various differnt mediums.
<SuperEngineer> aw! & I was so looking forward to taken as idiot ;)
<brobostigon> lol.
<SuperEngineer> If they had claimed "You have been chosen to receive a free Ubuntu phone", that might have been a *bit* more tempting!  :)
<popey> morning all
<MartijnVdS> hey popey
<SuperEngineer> o/ Mr. popey
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> In case peeps missed it last night, the date for this year's RAT has been decided. Come book your tickets :) http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3040-real-ale-train-2015/
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 19th September 2015 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3040-real-ale-train-2015/
<bigcalm> Yay, it got updated
<penguin42> hmm, just got a Toutube ad in chinese(?)
<penguin42> y
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> popey: fancy changing the topic?
<czajkowski> popey: AlanBell http://hampshireattractions.co.uk/offers/
<bigcalm> czajkowski: you and Jon should buy some RAT tickets ;)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: we will I'm recovering from dog walking and he's at the EXCEL doing SERV work today
<bigcalm> Ah, okay
<bigcalm> czajkowski: cute bash photos today btw
<czajkowski> http://www.serv.org.uk/site/
<czajkowski> heh thanks
<czajkowski> he's still passed out snoring after running with the ex police dogs
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | IRC stats: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | next meeting TBA | Beer Train! http://tinyurl.com/choochoo2015
<bigcalm> popey: thanks lad
<czajkowski> Chooo Choooo
<czajkowski> and CAH
<czajkowski> pre dinner before hand also :D
<bigcalm> And exploding kittens
<bigcalm> Yep, that's the hope
<bigcalm> I should book a hotel room now
<bigcalm> Well the swinger's hotel isn't available
<bigcalm> Might have to do the same as last year and get a place in Farnbrough
<czajkowski> will be someone going back in that direction so a good bet
<czajkowski> Hopefuly will be in new house by then
<bigcalm> Oooo, what's that you're up to?
<bigcalm> amazon.co.uk working for anybody here?
<bigcalm> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/amazon.co.uk says no for me
<czajkowski> bigcalm: we bought a house in Godalming :)
<czajkowski> waiting on a completion date
<czajkowski> so_slow
<bigcalm> czajkowski: congratulations :D
<bigcalm> czajkowski: our house purchase was so slow. We completed the day before our mortgage offer ran out
<bigcalm> It's a stressful time, I hope it goes quickly for you both :)
<MrIndeed> i have this google bell icon on my panel icon which i like to remove however i cant. How can i remove it
<czajkowski> MrIndeed: it's the icon needed to notify you of any messages or G+ notifications don't think yo can
<czajkowski> bigcalm: we bought it in December :) we're due to close in March... just no date.  Fork in our chain from the people we're buying from
<MrIndeed> i remember removing it before
<popey> for when mrindeed comes back.. http://askubuntu.com/questions/460069/how-do-i-remove-disable-the-chrome-chromium-notification-center-system-indicator
<czajkowski> ahh that bed
<czajkowski> not the bell in the actual browser
<czajkowski> *headdesk*
<mapps> ugh got the flu;[
<penguin42> mapps: I'd prescribe my normal advice of pain killers, rest, and cake
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-15
<mapps> hi;D
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> Rather fresh morning today :)
<diplo> Heaters at work are failing to warm it up here!
<MooDoo> they are taking their time here :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> Happy Monday and happy singles awareness day as james is off still https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtBHfxU2wmc
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka how am you
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah good thanks :) well as good as monday is  :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: just listen to the awesome song for singles awareness day it'll put a smile on your face
<MooDoo> roger will do :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> diddledan: you'll appreciate this mornings song choice to I believe :)
<davmor2> brobostigon: morning dude, how's life?
<bittin> Morning chaps
<davmor2> bittin: morning
<brobostigon> davmor2: not so bad really, and youo?
<davmor2> brobostigon: busy as hell but good thanks :)
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> hello. using jquery to get contents of a file and print on screen, but newlines are not printed...any ideas?
<awilkins> Replace them with "<br/>"  ?
<foobarry> ah fxied it
<foobarry> used .html
<foobarry> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18071164/how-do-i-display-new-line-in-text-in-jquery
<ertyu> hi there
<ertyu> need explanaition ?
<ertyu> when you got a service is down on a server suddenly how to identify why ? from where to start ?
<MooDoo> check the logs is probably a good start
<ertyu> on /var/log/dmesg ?
<popey> depends on the application
<ertyu> the application called assp
<popey> you'd have to check the logs of that application then
<popey> maybe check the documentation for it
<ertyu> there is no log generate by that application
<ertyu> itself
<zmoylan-pi> !weather oymyakon
<lubotu3`> zmoylan-pi: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<zmoylan-pi> whoops wrong channel :-)
<popey> ertyu: well that is a shame.
<mapps> ;]
<m0nkey_> Imagine an office full of these: http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/15/nissan-intelligent-parking-chair-stunt/
<m0nkey_> Now imaging somebody clapping during office hours.
<awilkins> Imagine the uses in The Apprentice
<zmoylan-pi> with one chair been a random ejector seat chair...
<awilkins> "Yer fired." <clap>     [candidate is tossed out of a window]
<awilkins> [into the swimming pool]
<pwaring> The person I'd most like to see ejected is the presenter though
<awilkins> [swimming pool turns out to contain piranha'
<pwaring> Maybe if enough voters press the red button, Sugar/Trump gets ejected
<zmoylan-pi> piranha, crocodiles, electric eels, in the interests of diversity...
<pwaring> Sharks with laser beams
<zmoylan-pi> if someone nicks your chair and you clap, does it come back?
<diddledan> davmor2: perfect tune!
<davmor2> diddledan: it seemed to fit :)
<diddledan> m0nkey_: haha
<foobarry> does anyone have a problem with mouse wheel juice?
<diddledan> mouse wheel juice?
<diddledan> that sounds icky
<foobarry> find an old mouse and use the scroll wheel...seems covered in greasy juice
<diddledan> aah, probably oil from the bearing
<zmoylan-pi> are you the only one using the mouse?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: pervert
<zmoylan-pi> no no, i used to take care of a pc for a few friends. one of the women there used a lot of hand lotion that left the keyboard unreadable and the mouse a little greasy...
<diddledan> "hand lotion" eh? I stand by my previous exclamation :-p
<mapps> yay
<mapps> 13/15 for how to get away with murder
<mapps> such a good show
<popey> Have you got Netflix?
<mapps> nope
<mapps> not avaliable in gib
<mapps> could use a vpn of course
<popey> ah
<zmoylan-pi> or a really patient pigeon
<popey> You reminded me of Making of a Murderer. Thing on Netflix at the moment
<popey> very good
<mapps> get my Gibraltar EU ID card soon;D applied 2 weeks ago, they said will take 4
<mapps> yea ive got that on my list too, everyone says it's great
<mapps> :)
<mapps> going gym then later zen in spain..chinese alll you can eat and drink 20euros:)
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGLzm-Gy0dQ
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mapps> morning?:
<mapps> :P
<diddledan> yes. morning!
<mapps> its afternoon
<mapps> :D
<bigcalm> Universal Greeting Time
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> il have finishd s1 how to get away with murder soon, 3 days to do 15 eps;
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> A documentary series that explores the furthest reaches of the internet and the people who frequent it, "Dark Net" provides a revealing and cautionary look inside a vast cyber netherworld rarely witnessed by most of us. Provocative, thought-provoking and frequently profound, each episode illuminates an exciting, ever-expanding frontier where people can do anything and see anything, whether
<mapps> they should or not.
<mapps> sonds interesting
<popey> bigcalm: yo
<bigcalm> popey: ahoy hoy
<bigcalm> popey: I have a calendar entry for the 1st March for me to start organising this year's RAT. Jumping the gun, but are you interested this year?
<popey> :)
<popey> sure
<bigcalm> Grand. I'll now try not to think about this for a week or so
<davmor2> bigcalm: I bet you fail miserably
<bigcalm> Beer
<bigcalm> Mmmm
<diddledan> Trains!
<diddledan> Mmmm
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> im taking a train from Bratislava to Prague next month..I wanna use the trans siberian railway oneday
<zmoylan-pi> see the salt mines...
<mapps> must be more than that
<zmoylan-pi> the weather?... [Oymyakon, Russia] Condition: Smoke | Temp: -47C/-55F/226K/404R | Humidity: 68% | Wind Speed 0mph/0kmph
<mapps> -47c
<mapps> what the
<mapps> thats crazy
<zmoylan-pi> it's warming up, was -50 in winter
<m0nkey_> Heh
<zmoylan-pi> thy got to -70odd in 1920s i think
<m0nkey_> In Montreal it got down to -46C
<mapps> wows
<m0nkey_> Tomorrow, we're going to see 6C
<mapps> 14c here
<mapps> i think
<m0nkey_> 50C difference in 24 hrs
<mapps> see
<mapps> A journey on the legendary Trans-Siberian Railway is one of the greatest travel adventures of our age. Set this dream of a lifetime on the tracks with our Private Train: Experience Russia, Mongolia and China in the safest, most comfortable and most fascinating manner.
<mapps> sounds fun
<mapps> oh no 13c here
<m0nkey_> The weather is screwed up this year
<m0nkey_> We're currently at -14C
<zmoylan-pi> but there was a documentary on bbc were they explained that when it hits -50c they close the schools so they have that going for them... :-)
<mapps> here abouts
<m0nkey_> :)
<mapps> heh ya i saw a docu on rt and they build indoor laces for kids to ride bikes etc as its so cold they cant leave
<mapps> which part of canada m0nkey_
<m0nkey_> -50C, buses still run, schools are open
<mapps> -14 seems cold
<m0nkey_> City of Montreal
<m0nkey_> When it's -46C in the city, it's much colder outside
<zmoylan-pi> right time to walk to tescos... i may be some time... :-P
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: In Mother Russia Tesco's Walks on You!
<zmoylan-pi> never a good sign when you see the salt been spread on roads...
<m0nkey_> ha!
<zmoylan-pi> ...in febuary...
<m0nkey_> I dropped to -40C here over the weekend. It was a bit slippery on the roads.
<zmoylan-pi> in ireland the temp will be 5c but people from far colder countries will swear blue that it feels like -10c humidty of 100% usually does the trick...
<zmoylan-pi> and public transport dublin bus puts it's bus stops in odd places. the top of hills and on bridge in middle of a river with no shelter or wind break to crush the spirit of users :-)
<m0nkey_> I know. I'm from the south (Sussex), with humidity it feels colder than it actually is.
<m0nkey_> But you know when it's cold when you open a metal gate to access your car and your fingers actually hurt because of the cold.
<zmoylan-pi> well it feels like that now outside _without_ touching anything and wearing light gloves
<popey> -40!?
<popey> where are you m0nkey_ ?
<m0nkey_> Canada
<popey> ooh
<m0nkey_> Selfie time! https://www.dropbox.com/s/c3ewsqaqz7ckyuc/2016-02-13%2012.34.27.jpg?dl=0
<popey> pfff
<popey> show us the SNOW!  ð
<popey> how come you're in canadia?
<m0nkey_> We haven't had much snow. Just frickin cold temperatures
<popey> awww
<m0nkey_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bgazumyw06kuzi0/2016-02-13%2012.33.58.jpg?dl=0
<m0nkey_> That was after digging the snow around the car
<m0nkey_> The most we've had is 20cm
<m0nkey_> Then we had one week of warm temps and it melted, since then we've only had a couple of falls of about 1-2inches
<zmoylan-pi> good old el nino and global warming...
<m0nkey_> From my yard
<m0nkey_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lehyrj0wu57qjuy/2015-12-29%2010.38.09.jpg?dl=0
<m0nkey_> That was taken half way though the snow
<m0nkey_> We should get another 20cm in the next day or two
<popey> i love snow
<m0nkey_> You wouldn't after 8 weeks of it
<zmoylan-pi> when you're a kid or have kids you might love snow, if not then not so much...
<m0nkey_> I have kids
<m0nkey_> I don't like snow
<m0nkey_> lol
<zmoylan-pi> hence _might_ :-)
<popey> I also work from home :)
<popey> So, not having to do any kind of commute in snow is fine :)
 * zmoylan-pi remembers at my first computer job when it started snowing and we dashed for the company sled... and then spent rest of day sliding down road outside...
<popey> heh
<zmoylan-pi> now i have artifical hip and snow is /fun/ to walk in...
<diddledan> the martian .. finally got around to watching it :-p
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I'm not sure "fun" is enough superlative :-p
 * diddledan says something else to have a third :-p
<diddledan> colon dash pee all up in yo bum
<diddledan> bum/face
<diddledan> either/or
 * zmoylan-pi sniffs the contents of diddledan's coffee mug...
<diddledan> hint, it's not coffee..
<diddledan> or maybe it is coffee, but not as we know it, Jim
 * zmoylan-pi suspects it's original container warns about open flames...
<diddledan> speaking of which, what exactly is a non-naked flame?
<zmoylan-pi> one in a davy's lamp
<diddledan> I mean, do they wear clothing?
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_lamp
<diddledan> did maybe one flame sample the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and decide to start wearing a fig-leaf?
<diddledan> and then said flame makes her boyfriend do the same.. and hence began the age-old scenario of women manking men realise they're inadequate
<diddledan> obv I'm trolling O:-D
<m0nkey_> diddledan, did you rip that movie from my sftp?
<diddledan> sshh
<diddledan> wow. bridge of spies is awesome
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-16
<diddledan> https://sourceforge.net/blog/sourceforge-acquisition-and-future-plans/
<diddledan> quote: "As of last week, the DevShare program was completely eliminated."
<diddledan> lol @ the subheadline on this article: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/05/who_would_code_a_selfdestruct_feature_into_their_own_web_browser_oh_hello_apple/
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> howd are you diplo ?
<diplo> All good thanks, cold! How about yourself MooDoo ?
<foobarry> woke up this morning and my whole /var/www/html/nagios is gone
<foobarry> its a mystery
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Innovation Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> ð MooDoo
<diplo> foobarry: symlink'd to /usr/share/nagios or did you install it there ?
<foobarry> turns out my ldap server is shagged and we're doing preauth
<foobarry> :(
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi popey
<MooDoo> darn you ssh session
<zmoylan-pi> darn you to heck?
<davmor2> JamesTait:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orvkXC_KSAk the very essence of innovation I think :)  also friday was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cad2JYi4F0I for darwin day and Monday was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_cVCtw7iLA Singles Awareness day :D  I hope you enjoy them :)
<zmoylan-pi> darwin day? lets all celebrate by sticking forks in power sockets :-P
<JamesTait> Motorhead vs Olivia Newton John.  Wow.
<davmor2> JamesTait: Hey there is only some punk, really heavy metal, new boy bands, modern rap and justin bibble that I don't like :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: at least 10cc is slap bang there in the middle though :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: and you have to admit apt songs for the days right :D  And god bless Lemmy for his music but he doesn't look as good as Olivia Newton John :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: Monday was a toss up over https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouIss1cBghk or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaNt9-QkiHI but in the end went with 10cc :D
<davmor2> oooooh that popey he's such a smooth operator
<directhex> you've been hit by
<directhex> you've been struck by
<directhex> a smoooooth popey
<davmor2> directhex: missed a trick there,  You've been kicked by, You've been banned by, A Smoooooth popey :)
<popey>  ð
<popey> weirdos
<awilkins> a smooth poperator.....
<davmor2> popey: Don't know what you mean, tic, <hushed_tones> it's the other voices that make you do it isn't it </hushed_tones>
<diddledan> popey: you do realise that we all idolise you, right?
<popey> In my dreams
 * diddledan bows before the popey and kisses the pontif's ring
<popey> .oO( PARP! )
<diddledan> not that ring!
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> popey: well you exclaim we are weirdos, we need a leader and no one is more weird than you :P Well except maybe jono but we don't talk about him anymore :D
<diddledan> :-o you mentioned the deserter!
 * diddledan grabs a pitchfork
<diddledan> ooh, thankyou twits! /me fires-up ubuntuonair.com
<davmor2> diddledan: relax I said we don't talk about him anymore, calm down it's only an advert
<diddledan> phew
<foobarry> he still uses ubuntu probably
<diddledan> I wonder how much xamarin's trajectory has been altered with the release of .net core and bits as variously MIT and Apache licensed. it'll be a fun day when xamarin is able to focus on value-add rather than reimplementation
<diddledan> o_O someone from egypt just tried to call me?
<davmor2> Just reply with are you my mummy and if you can wear a gasmask as you do that and obviously video or it didn't happen ;)
<diddledan> they're either leaving a really long voicemail or they hung up
<zmoylan-pi> it was your mummy? :-P
<diddledan> she's not in egype
<diddledan> egypy
<diddledan> egypt
<zmoylan-pi> someone trying to interest you in a pyramid scheme?
<mapps> hi:D
<mapps> i always get calls from 'you can claim x for ppi ' or car accident
<mapps> ugh
<zmoylan-pi> i get 1-2 calls a month tops... it's good to be anti social :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-17
<m0nkey_> I got a spare PC, trying to decide what to do with it. Maybe some project
<diddledan> GIMME!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I got too many anywho
<m0nkey_> diddledan, no.. you dont need another computer
<m0nkey_> It's not that powerful.. Celeron 1.5GHz, 8GB RAM.
<m0nkey_> It has 8GB because I had it spare from my PC upgrade
<m0nkey_> It's a mini-itx board, so I could use it in some weird project
<diddledan> mediacentre to front your plex onto your TV?
<m0nkey_> thats what the chromecast is for.. plus there's already a PC attached to the TV
<diddledan> fair enough
<m0nkey_> Although
<m0nkey_> I could swap out the boxes
<m0nkey_> That is a power AMD chip in that one
<m0nkey_> Maybe a vmware b0x3n
<diddledan> I'd expect the celeron to use less watts
<m0nkey_> yeah, doesn't use much
<m0nkey_> ok, so i'm supposed to have the 6.0.1 update for my moto360, yet it's not been offered to me .. I'm a sad m0nkey_
<m0nkey_> ya know what, i've not screwed around with netbsd yet
<diddledan> I think netbsd is to the other bsds as freebsd is to linux :-p
<diddledan> or am I thinking of openbsd
<mapps> hi all:D
<mapps> diddledan what does that mean? O_o
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<diplo> 444
<SuperMatt> 443 is the correct port for ssl, sorry diplo
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry_> no name yet for the new glibc thing
<foobarry_> ?
<davmor2> foobarry: Fubar
<diplo> hah, loss of internet, amazed it is still connected
<foobarry> patch got pushed at 4am
<Myrtti> I'm being a nice wife and upgrading even the husbands vms
<foobarry> heh
<MooDoo> foobarry: thanks for that, servers patched :)
<zmoylan-pi> the family that upgrades together... :-P
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy World Human Spirit Day! ð
 * awilkins reveals the level of Human Spirit he feels today : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_95XScHkvtg
<davmor2> JamesTait: instantly I'm thinking tubthumping no idea why.....oh I know it's a human full of spirits :D I'll have a think for something better after the meeting though
 * zmoylan-pi pours JamesTait a mug of human spirit... about 40% proof
<awilkins> Oh, is anyone hiring?
 * awilkins has won the Special Prize on the Corporate Wheel of Fortune this week
<JamesTait> I got a cask of Hobgoblin from my wife for Valentine's Day, I've already drunk consumed more alcohol in the last three days than I probably did in the whole of last year.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think you meant to say, I already drinks more drunk than I did last year
<JamesTait> Hic!
<awilkins> Hrrm
<awilkins> The Libreoffice 5.1.x PPA : yay new LibreOffice. Boo no global menu integration
<awilkins> The toolbar finally obeys the the OS themes!
<awilkins> And I'm given to understand it's lots more compatible with MOO-XML now
<foobarry> didn't unity ditch global menu yet?
<popey> no, why would we? it's awesome
<foobarry> even on a 4k screen?
<foobarry> its a long way to travel
 * zmoylan-pi checks bus ticket prices for tipperary...
<popey> foobarry: so enable integrated menus in the application?
<popey> foobarry: or press a key to open the menu rather than move the mouse
<awilkins> BIG NETSPLITS
<diplo> awilkins: I believe Freenode are doing hardware/software upgrades
<awilkins> Presumably as everyone reboots their services to patch DNSuck (the fun new name for CVE-2015-7547)
<awilkins> I wonder how much of Freenode you could power with just Raspi2s
<Myrtti> can confirm dnsuck renoots
<Myrtti> reboots
<MooDoo> I got the announceent from global this morning, they are updating stuff.... Myrtti can confirm
<MooDoo> oh beat me to it
<zmoylan-pi> probably none of it as the rasp pi has terrible networking subsystem.  it could do it but would require 3x4 times the number of pis if the pis had had good networking
<mapps> sunny but cold
<mapps> freaking wind;[
<foobarry> for anyone having a bad day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AskBfuH__io
<mapps> i just wish my glasses were ready
<mapps> grmpf
<Myrtti> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/bbc/12158689/Keeping-Up-Appearances-is-BBCs-most-popular-overseas-export.html
<diddledan> ooh, I'm back online!
<diddledan> popey: you gonna get the new meizu? :-p
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> donno what happened there
<diddledan> K-line? was that just for me or everyone on IRCCloud?
<diplo> diddledan: freenode doing upgrades etc
<diddledan> diplo: no I got K-lined
<diddledan> â diddledan quit (sid34680@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-evzxlgrzbnysvgcy) K-Lined
<diplo> Oooer, maybe everyone
<diplo> you're not a naughty boy are you ?
<diplo> :P
<diddledan> I don't think I am
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> it said I was "Banned due to too many failed login attempts"
<diddledan> so I'm guessing it's an issue with IRCCloud where they were reconnecting en masse and a load of people have incorrect passwords
<diplo> :/ - haven't used a web based irc client in years, just stick with irssi
<Myrtti> diddledan: something like that, yes
<Myrtti> (not really, but close enough approximation)
<Myrtti> or rather, a bit more to it but that was good enough rationalisation
<diddledan> Myrtti: IRCCloud also tweeted just before that they were having issues with their server in general so combined with FreeNode's upgrades it's a bouncy day :-D
<Myrtti> yeah, it's not been a great week to be honest
<diddledan> this DNSuck issue is a nasty one
<diddledan> pretty much everything in the last 8 years is affected IIRC
<diddledan> oh maybe I'm over egging - looks like maybe 6 years? glibc2.9 was from 2009
<MooDoo> glad i'm running rhel5 in production then ;)
<awilkins> Hahahaha
<awilkins> My router isn't affecte
<awilkins> d
<awilkins> Because it uses ulibc apparently
<awilkins> Or eglibc
<diplo> Can't see anything on it about my router :)
 * diplo about to change isp anyhoo so cba anyhoo :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X2fdGEWOhA  Forgot all about this this morning with all the excitement :)
<JamesTait> Very good, davmor2 ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: although I still like the thought of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTjC6rxHz8g as a human full of spirits :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: plus the I get knocked down and I get up again seems apt :)
<diddledan> davmor2: totally lipsyncing in the spirit in the sky video - his tongue is far too mobile to be making real words
<mapps> dnssuck?
<davmor2> diddledan: no really
<mapps> the film the forest isnt bad
<mapps> 1hr in
<zmoylan-pi> is the acting wooden? /obvious question...
<TwistedLucidity> Nah, I hear the lead turned over a new leaf.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-18
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> thursday, when friday is so close you can smell it...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Battery Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> hmmmmm, battered sausage...
<MooDoo> hmmm battered marsbar
<zmoylan-pi> or i haven't had a battered burger in yonks...
<JamesTait> I was thinking https://youtu.be/md3B3I7Nmvw
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRv9wGf5pk
<mapps> hi;]
<brobostigon> hi mapps
<mapps> sup:D i started watching izombie on e4 atm
<mapps> gonna start how to get away with murder s2 soon..s1 was good:)
<brobostigon> just updated the fw on my pebble, no breakage.
<davmor2> brobostigon: watch out tough making a pebble bigger turns it into a stone and then a boulder and then a rock and so on ;)
<brobostigon> davmor2: :)
<diddledan> and we all love hard rock
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGe8qID9gSs
<diddledan> wow that was from 2006's eurovision - I can't believe it was that long ago
<DJones> diddledan: Why do they remind me of the WWE tag team Legion of Doom
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yey for a nice twitter url truncation: blogs.windows.com/windowsecx
<diddledan> bad type
<diddledan> blogs.windows.com/windowsex
<tinyhippo> i am a heron. i have a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other channels i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans
<Seeker`> of coueaw.
<Seeker`> *course
<Myrtti> dweaver: this is getting a bit tiresome
<Seeker`> he'a due to go again
 * diddledan makes a very crude badge with "+o" scrawled on it in pencil and pins it on himself
<Seeker`> Myrtti: does that look about right?
<Myrtti> @*$## would have been enough, but that works too
<Myrtti> no hold on
<Myrtti> yes.
<Myrtti> yes that's right
<Myrtti> I can't read -.-
 * Seeker` hasn't done irc ops stuffs in years
<Myrtti> awwwww *pinches cheek*
 * Seeker` managed not to ban the whole channel \o/
<Myrtti> I'll bake a freenode staffer out of you!
<Myrtti> just you watch
<Myrtti> (run)
<Seeker`> heh
 * diddledan draws "+b" on a load of post-its and runs around sticking them onto everyone's foreheads
<Seeker`> diddledan: I could be wrong, but I'm not entirely sure that's how it works
<diddledan> oh?
<diddledan> I've got +o on my badge!
<mapps> ;]
<Myrtti> Ocado is great.
<Seeker`> Myrtti: pfft, sainsburys is better :P
<Myrtti> Seeker`: in some things... but Ocado has a lot of Scandinavian foods and some more exotic stuff too
<Seeker`> what sort of exotic stuff?
 * Myrtti says, sipping her fizzy lemon-lime and mint drink
<Myrtti> altho, now that I look at the labeling better, this has sugar in it. Boo. Need to read labels better next time
<Seeker`> eww, sugar :P
<Seeker`> I think my body pretty much associates sugary drinks with low blood sugar now
<Myrtti> ooh, lots of South African foods
<Myrtti> meh, most of it is wines
<davmor2> Myrtti: if it does do curried goat rice and peas it's not worth going to ;)
<Myrtti> ooh, a lot of Scandi bread is on sale... damnit
<ging> does anyone know how much this new ubuntu phone they announced will cost in UK?
<ging> the ubuntu meizu pro 5
<davmor2> ging: roughly .... more than a Â£1 Less than a Â£1000000  the only people who know are Meizu
<zmoylan-pi> i dunno, the amazon firephone ended up selling for less than a $ when it mega flopped... i don't think the ubuntu phone will but phones have gone for less than $1 before
 * zmoylan-pi hopes the ubuntu phone drags the phone market into a better space than ios v android space we have now
<ging> is there any chance the ubuntu version will be cheaper than the android version?
<ging> or atleast the same price
<zmoylan-pi> doubtful...
<davmor2> ging: doubtful but again the only people that know are Meizu
<zmoylan-pi> smaller market... and i suspect the demand for the ubuntu one will be a lot higher than android version
<ging> surely people know some stuff, like if the previous models were more or less than the androi versions
<ging> loads of review sites list having specs and price, then when you click they have no price
<mapps> i shop at morrisons.no choice heh
<diddledan> I go sainsburys
<zmoylan-1i> diddledan fail english? that's unpossible... :-P
<diddledan> I good English speak
<diddledan> see, I even used a capital E
<zmoylan-1i> i know capitals. the capital of france is f...
<diddledan> bingo
<zmoylan-1i> the capital of ireland is cork...
<diddledan> the capital of the United Kingdom is Brussels? :-p
<zmoylan-1i> only if you read the daily mail...
<diddledan> lol
<mapps> =]
<mapps> who watches arrow?
<mapps> i find gets a bit repetitive
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/taviso/status/700422594550325248
<zmoylan-pi> well if the government wants backdoors then why should anyone else bother with security...
<diddledan> buy apple
<diddledan> apple has enough money that they can buy-out any government that challenges them :-p
<zmoylan-pi> pft, i don't think they're any more secure than google
<diddledan> https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
<zmoylan-pi> now every jihadi wanna be is buying apple and if there already is a backdoor there they have them by the short and curlies
<zmoylan-pi> would you believe it if microsoft had security that stopped nsa/fbi/gchq?
<davmor2> Man I don't know what the hoohar is all the fbi needs is a 10 year old, they know all the hacks to work around a locked Iphone and done :)
<diddledan> hurrah! I found which cable was causing interference with my speakers
<diddledan> in other news: I have way too many cables
<davmor2> diddledan: the speaker cable
<diddledan> nah, it was a mains-power cable going from my UPS
<diddledan> I'm wondering whether that might also have been affecting my broadbent speed without my knowledge
<zmoylan-pi> you need to move to wireless everything... then you can leave a chicken on your desk and it'll be cooked in 30 mins...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: or my nads
<zmoylan-pi> you'll code better without distractions...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-19
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> hi all
<MooDoo> howy
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello diplo
<diplo> How are we this fine fresh Friday morning
<MooDoo> doing ok thanks
<MooDoo> getting my kids used to ubuntu gnome :)
<diplo> hah good work, not used Gnome3 still yet, my kids use my ubuntu machines and soon what ever runs on raspbian ( lxfce? )
<sebsebseb> popey: ping
<MooDoo> diplo: yes might reinstall ubuntu standard as I believe in the next LTS release, you can move the unity bar to the bottom
<popey> sebsebseb: pong
<popey> Good morning
<sebsebseb> popey: morning
<sebsebseb> popey: I hope there won't be any rushy you must pre order now for the Meizu Pro 5 if you want one, or they may all go out of stock for ages soon, since the fan boys got them.  I mean I might get one, but the MX 4 is good :) etc.  Tablet  will be more interesting :)
 * sebsebseb will not have money to buy any expensive devices next week that's for sure
<sebsebseb> apparnatly pre orders for Meizu whilst Mobile World
<sebsebseb> popey: how's the progress of running classic Desktop LInux apps going?  I know ideally want people using native apps actaully made for Ubuntu Touch.
<sebsebseb> Classic software I meant above even not apps
<davmor2> Morning all TFI Friday
<sebsebseb> davmor2: TFI  ???
<davmor2> if you don't know, you are too young to know and don't need to know ;)
<sebsebseb> davmor2: I think I have seen that before some where
<sebsebseb> but forgot what it was
<sebsebseb> if so
<davmor2> sebsebseb: the goal is not to run classic software the goal is to run software and that is going amazingly well thanks, oh unless you need a keyboard on the move
<sebsebseb> what's going amazingly well
<sebsebseb> davmor2: as I put above I know the goal isn't to run lots of classic software really,  but instead native apps ,  but one of the cool interesting things will be how can run most Desktop LInux software on there :) the classic stuff
<sebsebseb> or I well hope so assume so :)
<sebsebseb> if it works well enough or not that's something else
<sebsebseb> corenominal: oh your an Ubuntu member since when?
<corenominal> sebsebseb a good few years ago, not a member any more
<sebsebseb> stll got the cloack though :d
<corenominal> yup
<sebsebseb> I had FSF one for a while after, but then lost it when I lost my nick since hadn't logged in properly for months
<davmor2> sebsebseb: you miss understand, The goal for unity8 is to run software fullstop there is no native versus classic it is all just software, the only difference will be how well it converges and how well it works with touch but that is not unity8 goal, unity8 goal is to just make it work
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 :)
<sebsebseb> davmor2: yeah I guess, it's software regardless, but it's about having it working in the diffenret modes well enough ideally
<davmor2> sebsebseb: again nothing to do with us we don't control it
<sebsebseb> davmor2: who is us?
<davmor2> sebsebseb: canonical, ubuntu community
<sebsebseb> I know that some programs like FIrefox got changed slihglty to work better with convergence or work properly enough with it
<sebsebseb> ,but in general most programs like that won't get changed it seems
<sebsebseb> davmor2: Do you think Ubuntu devices, might actsaully get out there, and go sort of main stremae, or be more known about at least in general like that?
<davmor2> sebsebseb: not yet, there is the whole transition to snappy to happen once that happens and there is one code base that everyone can get behind then it might
<sebsebseb> davmor2: well indeed not yet, convrgence, snappy stuff like that, but after those things.  you think it might?
<davmor2> sebsebseb: then it will.
<sebsebseb> yeah hopefuolly I guess, need a proper good Linux player
<sebsebseb> and  Tizen isn't really it I guess, but here's the thing.  I found out yesterday when someone showed me.  that PC World  actually sold a Tizen  smart watch hmm
<sebsebseb> but well I supouse it's samsung and just an expensive watch so
<sebsebseb> so PC World decided to
<sebsebseb> Samsung  is a big brand though.  Uuntu  will need branded comapnies to get it out there when it's time, but apparnatly there already are some with interest
<sebsebseb> davmor2: which branded manufactures, do you think might sell Ubuntu devices, when it's time?
<popey> all of them :)
<sebsebseb> popey: heh you wish :d
<sebsebseb> popey: heh you probably have more of an idea who it will actully be, but can't just tell us that, or may get in trouble with your bosses heh
<sebsebseb> popey: so I found this nice photo of the Ubuntu Touch team earlier, in it, withy ou in it, michal etc heh
<popey> indeed
<popey> http://www.cio.com/article/3034393/linux/ubuntu-on-mobile-how-shuttleworth-and-team-are-forging-ahead.html that one?
<sebsebseb> popey: yep
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Caregivers Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'm tempted by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAi3VTSdTxU but I think I'll go with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x8zBzxCwsM and this to all those who give care https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkq7WZTzkLQ
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
 * zmoylan-pi tries out my new microwave egg boiler...
 * JamesTait nominates davmor2 for random music trivia quizzes.
<davmor2> JamesTait: awwwww shucks you shouldn't of.....no really you shouldn't of I haven't got time for quizzes ;)
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of quiz app for the long boring commutes...
<brobostigon> quizup style?
<MooDoo> oh restoring from backup [usb2] sucks :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yes because the commute from the breakfast table down stair to my office upstairs take sooooo loooooooong
<davmor2> oh wait no it doesn't
<MooDoo> davmor2: so you work from home, stop showing off ;)
<zmoylan-pi> the christmas office party is legendary... :-)
<popey> I worked from my bed yesterday morning. Had the forethought to take my laptop to bed. Got up in the morning, open laptop :)
<MooDoo> oh the joys of working for canonical :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: what christmas party, look I had one drink and then the next thing people were wishing me happy new year
<zmoylan-pi> then were did the traffic cone come from...
<davmor2> popey: I'm glad you had no hangouts then :)
<popey> yea!
<MooDoo> oooo support manager job @ canonical
<popey> oooh
<MooDoo> yeah just what I though
<davmor2> popey: you already got a job, let someone else apply ;)
<MooDoo> yeah b****** off ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: no no the series is Breaking Bad not off
<popey> hah
<MooDoo> lol well it's certainly one job I could do :)
<MooDoo> ps davmor2 ow am ya?
<davmor2> tired but good thanks, 'ow am ya too?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah good thanks, get to leave work early today...nice start to the weekend :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: and you thought we were showing off because of the commute pffff
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol I started at 6 this morning and have 30 mins in the bank so finish at 1:15 :)
<MooDoo> going home to look at building a new storage server
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh get you and all your fancy smancy la-di-da ways next you'll be drinking tea with your little finger sticking out, I'm not jealous honest much git
<MooDoo> davmor2: well I have a WD mycloud, which does it's job, but it's not sexy is it....when I can build a much bigger and better box
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm, are you well?
<bigcalm> Hungry
<bigcalm> Tucking into lunch far too early
 * zmoylan-pi sorts nice chicken burgers for lunch... well chicken burgers... well tesco chicken burgers... so burgers...
<mapps> hi;]
<MooDoo> hi mapps
<mapps> watced 10mins tv this morning and fell right asleep
<mapps> wanted to watch workaholics heh, sup MooDoo
<MooDoo> mapps: finished for the day now, just chilling at home, playing about with my laptop
<MooDoo> I like the canonucal jobs page, nice n simple
<davmor2> mapps: well that's never going to be an issue for you if you can't stay awake through 10 minutes of tv is it ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah yeah, keep rubbing it in and I'll drive over there and slap you with this feather I just found
<davmor2> MooDoo: have you had a play with lxd yet?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no, and don't think I'll be able to at the moment, all three of my servers failed and I don't have anything else I can use at the mmoment, laptop isn't good enough I don't think
<davmor2> MooDoo: Laptop should be fine
<MooDoo> then it's something I may get to look at later!
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh dear i've just done sudo apt-get install lxd ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: \o/  it will blow you away dude seriously you won't see vm's the same way anymore :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: uh hoh sudo lxc-create -t download -n ul
<MooDoo> davmor2: lots of different os's you can install this for :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: lots of linux os's you can't install something that requires a different kernel so no bsd or windows but an linux images should work
<MooDoo> davmor2: just trying it with ubuntu wily amd64 see what happens after that
<MooDoo> davmor2: getting lost already, this might take me a few mins :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: think of it as a fun weekend :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: wouldn't want you to get bored :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: so i've got a succesfull container, but i don't know how to access it, lxc-attach doesn't know about it lol
<MooDoo> damn you
<MooDoo> damn ah hah ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: getting it :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: \o/
<diddledan> america has nutters in important positions: https://boingboing.net/2016/02/19/texas-mayor-claims-obama-worke.html
<diddledan> and then of course there's john mcaffee: http://arstechnica.com/staff/2016/02/mcafee-will-break-iphone-crypto-for-fbi-in-3-weeks-or-eat-shoe-on-live-tv/?utm_content=buffer935c9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
<zmoylan-1i> the fbi will find a get smart phone shoe for him to eat... :-)
<MooDoo> davmor2: holy crap mate, this is brilliant!!!!
<davmor2> MooDoo: I told you, ages ago you would like it
<MooDoo> well i've just created a container, booted it, attached to it, installed a new user and openssh-server and bloody hell it's like two mins to setup another server
<diplo> Whats the difference between lxd and vagrant ?
<davmor2> diplo: look at linuxcontainers.org iirc it has a bunch of comparisons
<MooDoo> i need a new server :(
<diplo> Will do ta, I had issues with vagrant so thought id take a look
<davmor2> diddledan, MooDoo, popey: I'm trying to figure out if this is a better version of Layla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HE123MAhls you need to listen to it a couple of time because the first is like wth
<diddledan> davmor2: wow, that's different
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-20
<diddledan> oops: http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-says-government-changed-apple-id-password-on-shooters-iphone-losing-access-to-data.1957246/
<zmoylan-pi> have they tried turning it off and on again? :-P
 * zmoylan-pi makes not to put the name of the rose on media player... http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35620368
<mapps> wow
<mapps> rather windy here
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon how are you this fine day?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: not bad, my eczema could be better, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yes ok thanks, playing with LXC and listening to the kids argue over lego dimensions
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<mapps> afternoon
<mapps> 2 eps left yay
<MooDoo> mapps: what off?
<zmoylan-pi> the butler did it /random spoiler :-)
<mapps> how to get away with murder
<mapps> serie 2 11 eps out on 11 now
<mapps> really good series imo
<mapps> seen any? next up after is self/less the film
<MooDoo> selfless is great
<SuperEngineer> is that the singular of "selfies are gaff"?
<mapps> hah no]
<mapps> with ryan reynolds ya MooDoo?
<mapps> il watch it in my breaks, on my phone 20mins a time:
<mapps> :P
<penguin42> oh god, Google has just shown me an advert for Poundstretcher, now they have figured out just how tight I am
<SuperEngineer> quick... stretch all your pounds... make them happy
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Talking of stretching pounds; the local Morisons has thrown out the weird self-service terminals with the coins on belts
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, and about time too!
<SuperEngineer> let's hope the others follow their lead
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: It's strange, that Morisons has only been there (central Manc) for a couple of years, but they've completely revamped it
<SuperEngineer> agreed
<penguin42> (Mind you, last week they were selling chocolate muffins for 31p, so if they keep that up, they might gain more of my custom)
<zmoylan-pi> for the short time left to you... :-P
<foobarry> can anyone else get_iplayer cuckoo s03e01?
<foobarry> ah, needed a new xml::simple perl package
<foobarry> weird
<MooDoo> howdy all
<zmoylan-pi> saturday night and we're all here in irc living exciting lives... :-)
 * penguin42 yaaaaaawwwwnnnns
 * penguin42 decides he'd better download a fresh iso for doing single-boot banking stuff off and wonders hth the mate iso is so large
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't everyone have gigabit broadband by now? :-P
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Not quite, it took me just under 5mins for the 1.5GB
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Still, 5.59MB/s isn't too bad really
<penguin42> mate is pretty responsive in a VM
 * brobostigon is marshmellowed on his lg g watch.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-21
<mapps> hi all
<zmoylan-pi> spring is here, the daily mail hacker is no longer wearing a hoodie... :-) http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/18/12/0236EF8900000578-3452774-image-m-93_1455800012124.jpg
<directhex> Oh no, that website's horrible. Have some
<directhex> Tea and Kittens
<directhex> Instead, they're much nicer.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> 'owdo
<penguin42> does
<penguin42> popey: You need to borrow one of these; http://gizmodo.com/this-lg-robot-ball-thing-is-insane-1760187806
<popey> thats cool!
<penguin42> it's probably great for chasing cats
<popey> heh, yeah!
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> evening all
<penguin42> it is indeed
<popey> yup
<popey> i should pack
<popey> and book a cab
<popey> etc
<popey> I hate travelling
<penguin42> popey: For some reason there is no service that anaesthetises you at home, and delivers you to your destination and then awakens you
<popey> Derren Brown did that!
<penguin42> so did the CIA
<popey> hypnotised someone and next thing he woke up in Morocco
<popey> haha
<popey> touche :)
<MooDoo> safe travels popey :)
<popey> ta
<diddledan> popey: MWC?#
<diddledan> is that this week?
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh lots of news stuff coming out from it
<MooDoo> Hall 3 Stand 3J30 that's where canonical is :)
<penguin42> based on the pictures on G+ I dont think you'd miss it from space
<diddledan> \o/
 * diddledan wonders if there are going to be any juicy bombshells
<diddledan> moar announcements! :-p
<diddledan> popey is probably itching to tell us but isn't allowed
<diddledan> I'd imagine it's really difficult to be both secretive yet also very public
<zmoylan-pi> the ubuntu toaster, shuttleworths face on every slice...
<diddledan> number of times the community Q&A has had questions along the lines of "when is x and y going to make a new z" and I'm sure I can see a glint in popey's eyes when he tells the audience he doesn't have anything to share about that
<diddledan> ooh, a boontoo toaster will be awesome
<diddledan> I still want to get popey sainted
<diddledan> popey, popey, he's our man, if he can't do it, call superman
<penguin42> diddledan: I'm not sure that's generally a good idea to get someone sainted
<diddledan> no?
<penguin42> diddledan: Well, not for them
<diddledan> I think you have to perform a miracle or two, don't you?
<MooDoo> It's obvious what it is, it's a paper thin ubuntu phone that's transparent made out of aluminu...computer oh computer
<diddledan> MooDoo: and bendy!
<MooDoo> lots of stages to becoming a saint
<MooDoo> diddledan: oooh yes forgot bendy
<diddledan> hmm, a keyboard. how quaint.
<diddledan> forget popey, let's saint Scotty
<MooDoo> diddledan: ah someone got the reference ;)
<diddledan> teeehee
<diddledan> so.. completely random question.. can ubuntu snappy core for the raspi drive the LCD display?
<diddledan> as in the official 7 inch display from the foundation
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-13
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you forget that the islands are not part of the EU (or won't be much longer, I forget whether they're not part ever or are part via Britain who are now leaving)
<daftykins> never been in, newp
<diddledan> yummy late night pot noodle brewing
<daftykins> i just ate some very green chicke dish from M&S
<daftykins> *chicken
<daftykins> lotsa spinach and something else
<diddledan> probably that something else was chicken judging by the title?
<daftykins> nah there was other green stuff but i don't even know...
<diddledan> snot?
<m0nkey_> sniz
<diddledan> snizn't
<daftykins> i'd love to find out but the packet is downstairs in the kitchen
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> why would an oven need an nVidia Tegra K1 CPU?! (it's an IoT oven - watching "This Week In Google" where Leo LaPorte complains about his oven being stuck in a bootloop and needing to reset it using the Android Bootloader)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> perhaps it can't take the heat...
<diddledan> I get that an IoT oven would need a cpu, but why a graphics powerhouse?!
<diddledan> of course I'm ignoring the question of why you'd want an IoT oven in the first place
<daftykins> are you trying to say you don't game on your oven? madness, sir
<zmoylan-pi> to speed up the cooking process?
<daftykins> http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-k1-processor.html
<daftykins> not really all that
<diddledan> california has been having wack weather: https://twitter.com/ProComKelly/status/830946060579328001
<daftykins> daym
<daftykins> i find it funny how media places are just there asking for them
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> good morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<andylockran> heya brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi andylockran
<andylockran> Guys - I'm looking to get some training booked in for colleagues; specifically around open source licensing.  I want it to cover commercial aspects, rather than be too legal-specific.  Any recommendations?
<SuperMatt> I've never heard of any such training
<SuperMatt> https://choosealicense.com/
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Clean Out Your Computer Day! ð
<SuperMatt> I hoovered my computer a couple of weekends ago
<JamesTait> Oh, an eager beaver!
<SuperMatt> I'm no beaver! I lack the tail :(
<JamesTait> Did your vacuum cleaner also rid your computer of unswanted files?
<SuperMatt> no, it didn't
<JamesTait> *unwanted
<JamesTait> Then embrace the day, and de-lint with reckless abandon (or care, if you prefer)!
 * zmoylan-pi remebers the time my boss at the time took an ancient very very dusty cpm computer to garage to use their hoover to clean the motherboard... never worked again
<zmoylan-pi> or the time i was given a pc that lived it's life in a taxi drivers cubby (waiting room, for calls to come in before mobile phones or radio). they all chain smoked and the pc was brown and tacky to the touch from tar in the air.  the fan on cpu had jammed... for some reason...
<zmoylan-pi> or the dust bunny that when i turned the pc upside down fell onto the desk in exact shape of the empty space of the pc not taken up by pc components..
<SuperMatt> yeeesh
<zmoylan-pi> or the pc in a metal engineering workshop that kept blowing power supplies from metal dust in the air till we put pi in a pair of tights to keep it out.
<SuperMatt> christ
<zmoylan-pi> or the pc delivered after been in a shop beside river that flooded that was a mass of slime and rust when it got to me
<zmoylan-pi> ...and people wonder why my tool box has a barge pole... :-P
<andylockran> SuperMatt: yeah, it's a bit wishful thinking. To most of the guys in the engineering team it's old new.
<andylockran> new*
<andylockran> but the balance of how IP is donated to the OSS community versus IP back in is interesting when trying to align commercial models.
<popey> I used to work for BMW, and had to install updates to the IBM PS/2 in the service centre. On more than one occasion we took the floppy dirves out, put them on the floor of the service centre and blew the crap out with a tyre air line. Was fun chasing it round the garage :)
<andylockran> That does sound fun.
<zmoylan-pi> could be a sport almost... :-)
<popey> it did almost fly off under a toolchest on one occasion.
<popey> we learned to put a foot on the drive
<popey> then you get a shoe covered in dust :)
<popey> Those IBM PS/2s were great pieces of kit.
<zmoylan-pi> pricey... ugly... indestructible... :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: like your nokia?
<zmoylan-pi> not quite nokia indestructible but close...
<Laney> just found out that the train back from our wee march break in north wales is going to be a 2 hour rail replacement bus
<Laney> :(
<foobarry> whaa
<Laney> http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/gbp-50m-north-wales-railway-upgrade-project-underway#
<Laney> normally the train from conwy to chester would be 46 minutes
<foobarry> 2hrs for 50metres, sounds legit
<Laney> bah I say!
<diddledan> what happens when an 18 year-old buys a mainframe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45X4VP8CGtk
<diplo_> that the one in the basement ?
<davmor2> diddledan: does he become a sysadmin?
<popey> its quite funny
<popey> when he's trying to crowbar it into his house
<popey> *parents house
<diplo_> Think I read about that on reddit a while ago, he did a AMA
<diddledan> he's a good speaker
<diplo_> Anyone use Ansible? I know I've asked before with little response :)
<Azelphur> Don't suppose anyone is interested in some offsite backup space, me and my friends club together and rent a server at hetzner with lots of drives and share out the space, costs me â¬53.45/mo and we have 8TB usable space, so the tl;dr is â¬6.69/TB + 1GB RAM KVM VPS.
<ali1234> Azelphur: already got one :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: hehe, you doing the same as me? hetzner serverbidding?
<ali1234> no, we just have a fixed package
<ali1234> not sure which one
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> I didn't do bad, spend a little while watching serverbidding, nabbed a server with 7 x 1.5TB drives, i7 950 and 12GB RAM, drives are RAID5 which leaves us with 8.1TB usable space, reserve 100GB and 4GB RAM for the host, leaves us with 8TB and 8GB RAM to share out
<ali1234> i dont think what we have corresponds to any existing package
<Azelphur> oh, and it costs me â¬53.45
<ali1234> that's basically what all their dedicated servers cost
<ali1234> its not really worth trying to resell it imo
<Azelphur> well it is for me, I wanted 2TB backup space, which costs like â¬50/mo from other providers anyway
<Azelphur> seems well worth it to share it out
<diddledan> they're dead cheap when you compare them with an equivalent "cloud" vm-ish
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> you have to ask what your time is worth
<ali1234> if you have to spend an hour per month making sure that your customers VPS are working correctly, then you are losing money
<Azelphur> ali1234: good point I suppose, but for the most part once people are setup it tends to just go smoothly
<Azelphur> if someone requires too much time I wouldn't put up with it, they aren't my customers, just people clubbing in with me
<diddledan> daftykins:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/83oTcmCK/
<daftykins> wow i just this second connected
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> good timing :-)
<daftykins> this a confirmed victim or a diagnosis?
<diddledan> diagnosis.
<diddledan> specifically because:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/6KFvEkdI/
<daftykins> that is one insaaaaaaane load/unload count
<diddledan> it's a WD greenie
<daftykins> figures :D
<daftykins> second one is an extended/long SMART test?
<diddledan> those things cycle a lot because they think that HDD failure is cheaper than the power to keep em running
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> I got an alert from freenas
<daftykins> XD yeah silly power management etc
<diddledan> I need to replace that particular disk anyway
<diddledan> being greenie means it's sucky for NAS use
<diddledan> I'm gonna eventually plop a nice red in instead
<daftykins> *nod* what's the other?
<diddledan> got three other reds in there
<diddledan> 4 total
<daftykins> ah right, RAID5 or?
<diddledan> the greenie was a relic
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> raid 10
<daftykins> nice
<daftykins> so is the FreeNAS factor stopping you using most tools etc, hence the quirky screenies?
<daftykins> (vs. pastebin)
<diddledan> I did pairs of mirrors because it's easier to expand a freenas zfs pool with that layout
<diddledan> I could prolly pastebin
<diddledan> pasted https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/vsM2DAFw/
<daftykins> ah well, from there i'd slap that drive in a normal desktop and do some more prodding ideally - not sure if you cba though
<diddledan> not sure it'ld be worth it
<daftykins> i think i'd treat it to a customary zero fill to see what she'll do
<diddledan> I guess. might give it a shot
<daftykins> it is mostly just wasting time but at least you can see how dead it is then
<daftykins> very last 3 lines of the paste are an eyebrow raiser...
<daftykins> 2 COM resets and 683,000 'vendor specific' :D
<diddledan> no idea what that is
<daftykins> nah, lot of them though
<daftykins> it's in the SATA error table anyway
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-14
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Extraterrestrial Culture Day! ð ð½
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d27gTrPPAyk
<diplo_> Any one recommend a low profile graphics card to out to 3 devices
<davmor2> diplo: I think you are basically needing to look to nvidia for that kinda spec, although in theory intel should do it, but meh. You might also have to chain hdmi too
<diplo> Found a radeon card for Â£45 that someone runs 14.04 nicely on
<diplo> no gaming involved, just work
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: hello
<davmor2> diplo: fair enough
<diplo> Sure someone else used to run one here maybe bigcalm or moodoo ?
<diplo> Don't see either very often anymore
<diplo> You still tinkering in python davmor2 ?
<davmor2> diplo: when I can pretty much too busy nowadays to do much of anything :)
<diplo> I've written a script that runs as a user, but occasionally needs to be ran as root ( email program that creates an email file in a proprietary format to send using the systems email )
<diplo> But I need to load some variables for site directories from tthat user that's stored in a config file that we load on login, we don't want to load these under root
<diplo> Just wondering best practice of loading them if anyone has suggestions
<diplo> File is in /etc/site.conf and has our software variables in it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, hi
<diplo> I've hardcoded it using os.environ atm
<davmor2> diplo: easiest way would be to load the config as a script would be my best bet, if user=root do xyx if user != root do abc.  Can't think of a more sensible way around it without  having ~/configs for each user added to Skel with a more advanced one for root which would be more secure
<diplo> yeah we load /etc/site.conf for all normal users just not root, but changes paths on different customer sites. My current think is to read /etc/site.conf for the two variables I need and populate with os.environ
<popey> diplo: mark has a MSI GTX 1050Ti LP
 * diplo looks it up, thanks
<diplo> Not sure they'll spend that much on me but looks good! :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<zmoylan-pi> my faith has been rewarded... nokia releasing a new 3310... \o/ https://www.yahoo.com/tech/nokia-3310-appear-mwc-2017-014313803.html
<SebthreeBQM10HD> zmoylan-pi, what's the 3310 ?
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I bet you can't use it as a hammer though
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: a phone from the good ye olde days
<zmoylan-pi> all phones can be used as a hammer... once... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> the nokia just increased the number a smidge
<SebthreeBQM10HD> back had a crash
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: the 3310 could always be used as a hammer that's the difference
<Seeker`> You could use a 3310 in the construction of a nuclear device, and it'd still work after detonation
<zmoylan-pi> i used my nokia n70 to bang in nails to annoy my boss
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<zmoylan-pi> i did last year see a nokia with a broken screen.  the person had run into a skip and the nokia took the full impact on his hip.  still worked though
<Seeker`> SebthreeBQM10HD: Are you too young to remember 3310s?
<zmoylan-pi> it is 17 years old...
<davmor2> Seeker`: you know the whole Starwars defence plan was to just drop them on nukes to take them out right ;)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> probably a bit to young to reember them then
<Seeker`> what? no! you must be lying
<SebthreeBQM10HD> if a phone is about 17 years old
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I won't remember it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but I am not that young
<Seeker`> zmoylan-pi: I got mine, like, a few years ago, I'm sure of it
<foobarry> light blue
<zmoylan-pi> i still see them for sale in phone shops around dublin
<SebthreeBQM10HD> maybe one of the old ones that can buy on amazon
<Seeker`> I think I preferred my 3210, but the 3310 did last longer
<diplo> My kids powered my 3310 up that has been in a draw for years powered off, still had power :D
<zmoylan-pi> down to half a charge...
<diplo> haha about that!
<zmoylan-pi> 3 years ago i brought my nokia e61 to hospital with me as a backup phone.  ended up using it for 3 days when i got seperated from my chargers.  it hadn't been charged for over a year...
<diddledan> Queenie opened the National Cybersex Centre today : https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/news/britain-enter-new-era-online-opportunity
<diddledan> oh, Cyber-Security, not Cyber Sexc
<popey> haha
<diddledan> ello popey
<popey> yo
<diddledan> thinking about WSL (Bash on Ubuntu on Windows) - I'm thinking that enterprises would love that to be available for their users who need some form of Linux tooling so that they can use their Windows-based endpoint security products to protect the Linux environments and ensure compliance by running the tools via WSL rather than an unprotected real-linux
<diddledan> of course those endpoint security products don't currently protect the WSL environment - it's effectively whitelisted atm afaict
<diddledan> also Group Policy via Active Directory can be used to enforce firewall rules on the Windows systems where they can't touch a real-linux
<lopta> Is there an Isle of Wight channel somewhere?
<m0nkey_> Hey Myrtti
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> recommendations on a reasonable developer workstation for home?
<andylockran> best ubuntu vendor in the uk to buy from?
<andylockran> ~
<popey> Entroware are popular I hear
<gabriele> can i set a timer to suspend my pc?
<popey> gabriele: http://askubuntu.com/questions/113379/suspend-and-wake-pc-at-certain-time maybe?
<gabriele> popey, there isn't a program?
<charged> is it with the command "at" still, popey?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-15
<charged> ahh gnome-schedule :D
<ali1234> andylockran: build it yourself: i7-6700 with a MSI ECO motherboard, as much RAM and SSD as you can afford
<init_1990> Hey guys, I would like to know if anyone over here studies/studied at De MontFort University. I will be enrolling for BS Software Engineering at DMU this fall and would like to get soe feedback as I really don't have anyone in the uk to ask ?
<zerous> hi :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<zerous> hey
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Susan B Anthony Day! ð
<brobosti1on> morning boys and girls.
<zerous> guys, I would like to know if anyone studies/studied at De MontFort University. I am planning to join for BS Software Engineering this fall but have none to ask for suggestions/recommendations ?
<zerous> If anyone has had any prior experiences with DMU, please let me know, I am in the dark atm.
<davmor2> JamesTait:  does this work I think it is the message she was trying to convey right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBmMU_iwe6U
<popey> 200 quid for an x230 - not bad http://www.tier1online.com/728-2324a39-b-screen/lenovo-thinkpad-x230-intel-core-i5-3320m-2-60ghz-grade-b-screen
<popey> i mean, it's a 4 year old laptop...
<TwistedLucidity> I wonder what's available brand new for the same price and how it would compare
<popey> x260 is latest i guess
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, and it costs a wee bitty more than Â£200!
<diddledan> interesting discussion on Snappy, Flatpak, et al on the Lunduke Hour; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PTtlOP09hY
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Is the "Lunduke Hour" any good?
<diddledan> I've been enjoying it
<TwistedLucidity> Has is presentation style improved? (Or is it just me that it grates with?)
<diddledan> just you :-p
<TwistedLucidity> Thought so
<ali1234> i can't stand him either
<SuperMatt> What's the takeaway from the lunduke hour? Does he think containerised apps are any good?
<ali1234> i'd guess that he listed a load of problems with snap which are also common to flatpak, and then decided arbitrarily that snap sucks and flatpak is the greatest thing ever
<ali1234> because that is what he always does
<ali1234> yeah i was right
<SuperMatt> surely he as a reason for saying flatpak is better
<ali1234> doesn't really matter because they're just spreading misconceptions anyway
<ali1234> SuperMatt: his reasoning: "snap sucks because canonical dont support their software"
<ali1234> then they conflate portable application bundles with snap/flatpak
<ali1234> (basically they're listing all the problems with appimage as if they apply to snap and flatpak)
<ali1234> now they acknowledged that both snap and flatpak have a runtime, but they dont like that either
<ali1234> "why not just standardize on opensuse?"
<ali1234> now they're waffling about how everyone should just use OBS
<ali1234> "you can get packages out in a couple of weeks!"
<ali1234> apparently the answer to all these problems is everyone should just use a rolling distro
<ali1234> they seem to have completely gone off the topic of app bundles without reaching any conclusion on it
<ali1234> basically they're just reciting opensuse advertising materials now
<ali1234> okay that's enough of that
<SuperMatt> OBS?
<ali1234> opensuse build service
<ali1234> think launchpad PPAs, but without the project management, issue tracking, and merge requests
<ali1234> and with an utterly incomprehensible interface
<ali1234> and no documentation
<ali1234> oh but it can build debs *and* rpms
<SuperMatt> I just can't get on with OpenSuse. Whenever I want to install packages from a non-standard repo, I feel like it's always fighting against me
<ali1234> by writing an arcane configuration script
<ali1234> which is also largely undocumented
<SuperMatt> Frankly, since I switched to Fedora (from about version 21, I think), I've never wanted to change distro
<ali1234> last time i installed fedora the package manager didn't even work
<SuperMatt> It's pretty close to upstream, a great representation of what the next centos will be like, and is extremely stable these days
<ali1234> it feels like never ending ubuntu+1
<SuperMatt> what do you mean by that?
<ali1234> and if you have a problem they just wait 6 months and then yell at you for using an out of date version
<ali1234> what i mean by that is every time i have tried it, it has been broken beyond usability out of the box
<ali1234> eg you can't install anything because RPM is broken in the stable release ISOs
<SuperMatt> Really? I haven't had any such issue in the last 3 years
<ali1234> i gave up on fedora completely at around 17
<SuperMatt> Ah, that was a pretty dark time for fedora. 16 and 17 were terrible
<ali1234> i only use ubuntu LTS releases now
<ali1234> its kind of unfortunate for fedora if they were going through a bad patch at exactly the time everyone was trying to get away from ubuntu
<ali1234> but after evaluating all the competitors in ~2012 i had to conclude that ubuntu was still miles better than any of them
<SuperMatt> Without trying to have a go at you personally, I get quite frustrated at people who enjoy the freedom of FOSS, but pointblank refuse to re-evaluate software when new versions are released. There are so many unity and gnome haters who tried it once in their respective infancies and refuse to ever try them again.
<ali1234> i used unity for two years
<ali1234> my dad still uses it
<ali1234> it hasn't changed at all since i stopped using it
<ali1234> i tried out unity7 on a phone a couple of months ago - it's awful
<SuperMatt> Oh I'm not saying you dislike unity, but there are too many people who go "I tried X during beta 0.1, didn't like it, and now I will use my experience to trash it online"
<SuperMatt> That's unity 8, iirc
<ali1234> and yes it was an extended test. i had it on there for a few days
<ali1234> oh yeah sorry
<ali1234> i do dislike unity though
<ali1234> i did however spend 2 years trying to like it
<SuperMatt> What do you use?
<ali1234> and i do like some of it
<ali1234> i use xubuntu
<SuperMatt> fair, it's light, and usable
<SuperMatt> I use gnome shell simply because it stays out of my way
<ali1234> all the things i don't like about unity are the same in gnome shell
<ali1234> and ultimately they are copied from OS X
<SuperMatt> Like what?
<SuperMatt> because I love Gnome, but hate OSX with a passion
<ali1234> like if i have 20 terminal windows open and nothing else, then precisely what use is a dock where they are all represented by one icon?
<ali1234> that's basically what it boils down to. i dont like docks and i never will
<ali1234> there are similar problems with the app switcher
<SuperMatt> ah, well I don't like docks because I use exposÃ©
<SuperMatt> s/like/use
<ali1234> expose is useless if you have 20 terminals!
<ali1234> they all look identical
<davmor2> ali1234: super+w is much nicer anyway :)
<ali1234> and what does that do?
<SuperMatt> ali1234: you might want to use something like terminator
<ali1234> i do use terminator
<ali1234> i love it
<SuperMatt> all right
<ali1234> i still have loads and load of terminal windows open
<ali1234> i have 22 across 2 monitors just on the current virtual desktop
<davmor2> ali1234: why?
<SuperMatt> Maybe it's a workflow thing. I only ever have windows open for the things that I'm working on right that minute, meaning that I will have a browser with about 3 or 4 tabs, and maybe 3 or 4 terminals *tops*
<SuperMatt> yes, I agree with davmor2
<ali1234> ssh connections to various servers
<SuperMatt> but why 22 at the same time?
<ali1234> five of them are for a webpage i was doing some work on
<ali1234> if i'm working on some wordpress plugin or something then i'm going to have five nanos and a couple of tail -f
<ali1234> plus a shell prompt to move around and poke stuff
<ali1234> then i usually have three or four projects like that in progress at any time
<davmor2> ali1234: right so why not one terminal per ssh session or server that I can kinda go with. With the various tabs in play for each command on that server
<ali1234> because people call me up and say "can you just quickly do this..."
<ali1234> because i have two monitors
<ali1234> but i generally prefer things to be full screen
<ali1234> so i might have two panels in one window, and the third one up on the second monitor
<ali1234> then switch to the shell
<ali1234> i dont really see any need to have tabs in my terminal windows
<ali1234> i have a perfectly good taskbar for that
<ali1234> if i used tabs i wouldn't be able to freely move windows around between monitors and desktops
<ali1234> id have to split them out first
<ali1234> i should probably look into how you configure terminator
<ali1234> would be good to just click an icon and get it launched with all the specific panels and tabs in the right directories
<diddledan> had an awesome idea for the new ipwn. replace the "case" with polymer which isn't pre-formed before manufacture, so that you "pour" the polymer into a mould which has all the components in-place for a functioning phone. absolutely zero air left in the device replaced instead with the polymer - waterproof much?!
<diddledan> also, zero servicing ability means more expensive "repairs" :-p
 * diddledan dings the cast register to stash the extra monies
<zmoylan-pi> i'm waiting till someone works out how to make a case from artifical diamond... maximum bling... difficult for repairs mind... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i will settle for a new nokia 3310 if if can handle java apps
<zmoylan-pi> i have broken 1 nokia 3310, the odds of breaking 2 are so close to 0 it's not worth even trying to calculate
<diddledan> I heard on the radio that the 3310 is coming back. I am unsure whether it was "fake news" or not (I hate that term)
<diddledan> in other news, I listened to the radio today!
<diddledan> the radio still exists!!!!?!
<zmoylan-pi> though to be honest the 3310 never went away. i saw one in use last year at protest march. i've seen them in shop windows for sale...
<zmoylan-pi> well they are looking to shut down fm radio in norway and other countries are thinking of following.  i have dab radio and i like it but it's nowhere near as useable when out and about as fm
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-16
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Tim Tam Day! ð
 * zmoylan-pi celebrates tim tam day by breaking out the generic penguin bars...
<SuperMatt> what's a tim tam?
<zmoylan-pi> very like a penguin bar, from australia
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Tam
<SuperMatt> I see
<SuperMatt> I'm not to fond of penguins really, so I'll avoid the tim tams
<zmoylan-pi> ...and you say that in a linux channel.... :-P
<SuperMatt> uh-oh!
<TwistedLucidity> Hmmm....Tim Tams/Penguins/Whatever-those-things-in-Lidl-are-called
<zmoylan-pi> seal bars
<TwistedLucidity> Can be used as a straw too.
<TwistedLucidity> Nibble 2 diagonal corners. Suck up tea/coffee. Consume in one bite before it all falls apart.
 * zmoylan-pi is purely traditionalist and is a dunker
<TwistedLucidity> But then all the crumb end up as sludge at the bottom of yer tea/coffee. Yuck.
<zmoylan-pi> no, if you hone your dunking skills you'll almost never have to fish the soft gooey biccie out of the bottom of the cup.  only if you try and dunk a cracked biscuit would that happen
<foobarry> anyoen know how to set fixed axis length in google charts?
<SuperMatt> no clue
<foobarry> ah, got it almost
<foobarry> had mixed versions of API
 * diddledan dings his ding-a-ling
<diddledan> well ding dong!
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0awJf7OWMmo
<Gboss89> hi can you use && to supply your password in an alias? thanks
<Gboss89> sorry i mean a server password for an sshfs command
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-17
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> yo
<davmor2> popey: I love you pew pew pew announcements because I can hear you saying it in your I'm a big kids voice ;)
<popey> hah
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<diddledan> Â£500 for a mobo?! http://www.ebuyer.com/769274-gigabyte-intel-aorus-ga-z270x-gaming-9-lga-1151-e-atx-motherboard-ga-z270x-gaming-9
<zmoylan-pi> aimed at gamers... they'll pay silly money for things... bless them... :-)
<popey> haha, all those LEDs
<diddledan> yeah I was laffin at the LEDs
<zmoylan-pi> and also only Â£499.94... so 6p short of 500 quid... so a bargain... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> that's probably enough for a pack of noodles to last you till you can afford real food again...
<awilkins> But light up RAM sockets!
<awilkins> Who wouldn't want those!
<awilkins> I constantly stare at my RAM sockets when playing games thinking "I could headshot that guy much better if only my RAM was better illuminated."
<SuperMatt> yeah, I've never understood gaming cases either
<zmoylan-pi> all the moth wings flapping after been attracted by the light adds to cooling
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm, i think google is going full evil trying to make us train their terminators... https://imgur.com/gallery/VgxcD
<foobarry> can anyone recommend a car dash cam?
<foobarry> reasonably priced...
<zmoylan-pi> isn't there an app to make your phone do that?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: wtf @ terminator school
<zmoylan-pi> it's just a cool new a.i. called skynet... :-P
<m0nkey_> foobarry, I have the DOD LS360W
<m0nkey_> I bought mine using Canadian monopoly money, so it's not that expensive
<m0nkey_> cost me $150 CAD, so in GBP, probably be picked up for around 100.
<m0nkey_> or maybe less
<foobarry> oof, still quite a lot though :(
<m0nkey_> It's a good dashcam. The recording quality is pretty good.
<m0nkey_> I looked at cheaper ones, but could never properly read license plates when playing back, or sometimes it picks up a lot of vibration. this one is clear, barely any vibration..
<SuperEngineer> Is tere a diddledan on this flight?  If so, can you please make yourself known to the cabin staff.
<SuperEngineer> Reaso0n:  corebird-diddledan has a problem
<SuperEngineer> https://paste.ubuntu.com/24015321/
<SuperEngineer> https://paste.ubuntu.com/24015321/
<SuperEngineer> Corebird ["normal"] was uninstalled  - system restarted [yawn].
<diddledan> no idea why you're getting that
<SuperEngineer> snap install seemed ok, but gave above message upon request pin
<SuperEngineer> so snap remove'd it, restarted, tried the snap via Ubuntu software, restarted [yawn].... same result
<diddledan> try installing with sudo - if that works then there's a snapd bug
<SuperEngineer> upon next restart [yawn] "Ubuntu has encountered an internal error... etc
<SuperEngineer> It was installed with sudo
<diddledan> which version of ubuntu?
<SuperEngineer> [the "internal" error was given the go ahead to report itself btw]
<diddledan> I'll dupe your setup
<SuperEngineer> 16.04.2 [ also happened when tried when it was still 16.04.1]
<diddledan> did you login to the snap store or leave it logged-out?
<SuperEngineer> dunno [first attempt was via "sudo snap install corebird-diddledan]
<SuperEngineer> after fail, sudo snapo remove same
<SuperEngineer> restarted, then tried via Ubuntu Software
<SuperEngineer> same result
<diddledan> ok
<diddledan> just waiting till the iso downloads before I spin-up a vm
<SuperEngineer> ..and this is not a complaint... this is, hopefully of help to you
<diddledan> yeah, I'm not sure where the problem is, but I'm hoping it can be isolated. I think it is a bug in snapd
<SuperEngineer> oooo
<SuperEngineer> [if it is of help - other snaps installed and all fully ok are:
<SuperEngineer> Dekko, hMyGirraffe, LibreOffice, PlanetLander
<SuperEngineer> ^OhMyGirrafe....    highly recommended for a llaugh btw
<diddledan> I wonder if I can automate creating test environments with powershell...?
<diddledan> (I'm on 'dows right now :-p)
<diddledan> nearly installed
<SuperEngineer> well, if nothing else, this is teaching patience :D
<diddledan> when it works corebird is great :-)
<diddledan> what's really confusing is I've installed personally on multiple setups (mostly VM) and had it work ootb
<SuperEngineer> yeah, I had it already installed before trying the snap, like it a lot.  [but it was fully removed prior to the snap install and a restart [yawn] done to ensure clean memory etc
<diddledan> I'm gonna try that scenario specifically I think
<SuperEngineer> could it be that snap is finding something to do with the previous apt version, I wonder
<diddledan> oh one thought, try running a sudo snap refresh core
<SuperEngineer> yeak, thanks. I think if the snap was a total snafu, you'd have heard by now.  It may be something to do with a sys that has previousdly had an apt vewrsion on it.
<SuperEngineer> now running the above suggeation
<SuperEngineer> "snap "core" has no updates available"
<diddledan> ok. from a clean install (sparkly!) the steps to get a working install are : sudo apt install snapd-xdg-open; sudo snap install corebird-diddledan; /snap/bin/corebird-diddledan.corebird
<diddledan> now let me try another clean install with corebird installed via apt first
<SuperEngineer> https://paste.ubuntu.com/24015505/ may be of interest
<diddledan> it's not an issue with corebird having been installed and active (logged-into twitter) beforehand
<SuperEngineer> hmmmmmmmmmmm....
<diddledan> I just cannot get it to not work unless I don't install snapd-xdg-open (but you've got that already so that's not an issue)
<diddledan> triple negative!
<SuperEngineer> it must be something to do with this here system of mine... "something"  :-(
<diddledan> I have no idea what tho
<diddledan> can you paste the output of `snap version` ?
<diddledan> mine is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/24015557
<SuperEngineer> mine is at https://paste.ubuntu.com/24015564/
<diddledan> so you're running the same tooling as me then, not an issue there >.<
<SuperEngineer> agreed
 * SuperEngineer thinks best thing is for me to "sleep on this" and see if brain has any ideas in the morning
<diddledan> try popping along to #snappy in the morrow to see if the gurus can be any more help than my flailing :-D
<diddledan> I think we can say _something_ specific to the evolution of your system has conflicted with snappy, but finding out what that something is I think is gonna be a guessing game and prodding bits n pieces until something skewiff turns-up
<SuperEngineer> well, the way that was put, at least I've now now got a smile/grin on my face ;-)
<SuperEngineer> and thanks for all the effort
<diddledan> anytime :-)
<diddledan> I really wanna know what the problem is - I hate when things are odd for a really small population
<diddledan> "works on my machine" doesn't really help
<SuperEngineer> I will keep you updated with thoughts/efforts/attempts and hopefully, with what made it work.../me does precautionary restart [yawn]
<diddledan> you'll get cooties from all this rebooting :-p
<SuperEngineer> yikes!
<SuperEngineer> run.... COOTIES
<diddledan> I prefer cuties!
<SuperEngineer> ditto
<diddledan> twitter.com/emergencykittens ftw
<zmoylan-pi> no no, cooties only come from windows reboots... linux doesn't reboot often enough for an organism to live off reboots... :-P
<diddledan> oh capitalisaion: https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens
<diddledan> oh they mispelled emergency
<SuperEngineer> EK on twitter is highly recommended by me... so that means absolutely not recommended for all
<diddledan> here's a cutie for the brain: https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/832465897503600640
<SuperEngineer> [e.g. not for dog owners]
<diddledan> for dog owners, there's https://twitter.com/CuteEmergency/status/832054405620830208
<diddledan> wow, this cat is pretty af https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/830865315185696770
<SuperEngineer> beware if doing a search for eith the kittens or non-kittens feeds... there are several spoof accounts on twitter and they may not be "friendly"
<SuperEngineer> ^either
<SuperEngineer> cooties time!
<diddledan> \o/
<SuperEngineer> sorry, meant "restart time"
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-18
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> popey: does this kind of thing pee you off as much as it does me? (the repeated unsubstantiated claims that "our phones are abandoned") https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg23540.html
<diddledan> good read: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/style/2017/02/16/how-weird-al-eclipsed-almost-every-star-he-ever-parodied/
<zmoylan-pi> how much of that is down to just outlasting them all?
<popey> diddledan: they have a point
<ali1234> i was thinking the other day
<ali1234> what if ubuntu edge got funded, and 2.5 years after delivery the OS was in the state it is now
<ali1234> how much do you think people would be complaining then?
<ali1234> at least the ubuntu phones that did get released were relatively inexpensive
<SuperMatt> an interesting thought
<SuperMatt> I think that maybe the boost of income from the edge may have pushed the development a little harder
<popey> Maybe.
<popey> Maybe that would have spurred us to hire more people
<popey> Maybe not. No way to tell.
<foobarry> i read that 99.6%of phones are androidios
<SuperMatt> they're android or ios, indeed
<SuperMatt> gonna be quite difficult breaking in to that market now
<directhex> if microsoft can't crack the smartphone market, i don't see canonical doing it
<ali1234> to be fair microsoft are notoriously bad at entering new markets
<ali1234> they'll try and fail for years, then apple does it first try
<ali1234> or sometimes the second try
<zmoylan-pi> you have to hand it to microsoft though, if you don't they'll send someone around to sue you for it... :-P
<SuperEngineer>  https://www.humblebundle.com/gift?key=hm4wk76Nv5bc62sN  [Steam link for gifted The Stanley Parable if wanted].  If used, please donate to Humble Bundle recipipients.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-19
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperEngineer> afternoon -39
<SuperMatt> clever
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<SuperEngineer> Random recommendation:  News Roast podcast Ep 3 [John Lloyd]... you'll be pleasantly surprised by the high intelligence and humour of the man
<SuperEngineer> [ignore the ad at the beginning and skip to the chat]
<SuperEngineer> Random thought:  last night I managed to burn some rice.  No probs due to the non-stick saucepan.... but what was it like in the days when saucepans were not non-stick and were therefore made of sticks?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<penguin42> hey
<SebthreeBQM10HD> penguin42, hi
<SuperMatt> morning
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-12
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<NET||abuse> hey guys, how do I view a web embeded video stream on chrome 64 or firefox(whatever ubuntu packages) when the ui is prompting me to install vlc plugin, which as far as I remember doesn't work anymore
<NET||abuse> i have an old tenvis webcam at home i'm trying to connect to .
<brobostigon> in chrome, i think you need to enable things like flash etc to run in settings then advanced and content settings and enable by website so things like that can run.
<NET||abuse> i think i can stream using vlc app directly, but it's awkward, is there a way to use firefox or something to view it directly using something more sane than the vlc plugin?
<NET||abuse> brobostigon: i'll have a look at that settting now.
<brobostigon> if memory serves chrome anyone now is by default doesnt run things like that automaticlly but asks you also if you want to run potentially harmful embedded website objects manually as well.
<brobostigon> anyway*
<NET||abuse> found that, added 192.168.7.26(my camera's ip) to allow flash, but no effect.
<NET||abuse> i dont think the web portal for the camera is using flash, it's trying to point me to use vlc-plugin
<brobostigon> add the website you want to play from also specific to the type of content it is.
<NET||abuse> i think it's a direct rtmp stream url or something .
<brobostigon> i havent tried knowingly anyway a stream like that recently in chrome, so good question, :)
<brobostigon> rtmp? didnt realplayer use that format?
<brobostigon> explains why its trying to use vlc.
<NET||abuse> hmm, config views have RTSP port and ONVIF port.
<NET||abuse> not sure what they are.
<NET||abuse> real time streaming protocol.
<brobostigon> ah.
<NET||abuse> trying to point the browser directly at that port ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> need some bday present ideas...
<foobarry> checks popey's wishlist for ideas
<brobostigon> suited and booted ready for interview, :)
<foobarry> i'm interviewing someone today. i don't think its brobostigon though
<zmoylan-pi> good luck at the interview
<brobostigon> lol, who nows foobarry. :)
<brobostigon> knows*
<brobostigon> thanks zmoylan-pi
<diddledan> boo
<foobarry> https://shirt.woot.com/offers/strange-tourism?ref=w_cnt_top20_6_img
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-13
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning all
<SuperMatt> how are we all today?
<SuperMatt> Just tried installing corebird from a snap, and it tells me I also need to install a snap called gnome-3-26-1604 and connect it to the corebird snap. This I don't mind doing right now, and I understand why it technically needs to be done, but I don't know why it's not just automatic
<brobostigon> morning, could be better, and you?
<SuperMatt> I'm slightly ill, so I could be better too
<brobostigon> hope better soon.
<foobarry> did someone tell me that lets encypt can manage certs for sites with internal IP too?
<SuperMatt> apparently so
<SuperMatt> though I don't know how to get that working
<SuperMatt> I'm certainly looking forward to wildcard certs landing
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> ahoy
<diplo> How's the new job going SuperMatt ?
<SuperMatt> going well thank you. I've been there a month right now and I haven't wanted to murder anyone
<SuperMatt> The tech stack is brilliant
<SuperMatt> there's lots of free food
<SuperMatt> and fridays are a write off, which is mavellous
<diplo> I do sometimes think I should look at something like that
<diplo> But not sure I want to much pressure atm
<diplo> And I guess that can be there
<SuperMatt> Well at the moment there's no pressure because I am too new
<SuperMatt> b
<SuperMatt> oops
<SuperMatt> But from what I've seen of the veterans is that there's no too much pressure either, at least not until the site goes down
<SuperMatt> but the stack is such that the customer is rarely affected when a node or two go down
<diplo> I'd like to run stuff like that, we probably couldn't ( very old software )
<SuperMatt> you gotta convice the bosses that stacks with service discovery and self healing are awesome
<diplo> I could say it's awesome, just not enough staff to do anything about it
<diplo> Most have been here 20ish years
<SuperMatt> eek!
<SuperMatt> An aging staff in tech is not a good idea. It increases the chance of knowledge residing solely in brains, rather than in documents
<diplo> There were literally 3 documents when I joined, I've written 1000's of pages now in sphinx (rst ) and also in a seperate git repo too
<diplo> And you're right, some things are only known by 1 or 2 people, I'm trying to change that
<SuperMatt> You need to do a bus test
<SuperMatt> Pretend that someone has been hit by a bus and send them home for a week, fully paid
<SuperMatt> Then see if you can get through the whole week and a DR recovery test without contacting them
<diplo> Yeah, we can with the knowledge but it would be slow, they don't listen tbh but happy for me to start fixing the problems myself with not a lot of help
<diplo> Gone from taking 1 1/2 days to deploy / set up our software to 20 mins with Ansible :)
<diplo> 4-5 hours to install / setup new hardware to 5-6 mins
<SuperMatt> good man
<diplo> They love it now, deploy ssh keys out to clients and remove them all when someone leaves, it's just a god damn slow process and hard work
<SuperMatt> puppet is good for ssh keys
<diplo> I use ansible for that too
<diplo> Just hard to keep on top of this plus doing everything else :)
<diplo> Can't get my new Cent7 image to PXE boot either :/
<Nafallo> why would you need ssh keys, and accounts, on the servers when you have ansible though? ;-)
<diplo> For out staff to logon to fix application specific issues at our clients
<diplo> Oh noticed the smiley at the end :P
 * diplo is tired
<Nafallo> ansible -m command -a ? :-D
<diplo> That would take users understanding anything apart from what they've learnt over 20 years
<Nafallo> aye :-)
<diplo> They still use some ps commands that don't really return what they really need, but it's what they've always used
<Nafallo> not as easy to implement as it sounds always :-)
<diplo> We only moved to SVN about 5-6 years ago, that was HELL!
<Nafallo> thank god my home lab is different from $WORK ;-)
<diplo> Trying to move to git now :)
<Nafallo> I'm considering allowing ansible to ssh to the hosts and use the lxd connection plugin to actually manage the containers... and then stop having ssh :-P
<Nafallo> could be a fun exercise ;-)
<Nafallo> s/stop having ssh/& in the containers/
<SuperMatt> yeah, removing ssh is a double plus good idea
<Nafallo> hmm. ansible automates in netherlands 14/3 :-)
<Nafallo> tempting
<SuperMatt> going abroad on the company dime ftw
<czajkowski> aloha
<Nafallo> hola czajkowski
<czajkowski> Nafallo: howdy
<diplo> So disabling sshd on the lxd's Nafallo ? sounds good.. may have to think about that, I use lxc currently and haven't had chance to setup/check out lxd and the slight changes
<diplo> But I guess I ought to at some point
<Nafallo> now I just need time to play with it ;-)
<diplo> That's my problem too :)
<Nafallo> ansible -m command -a "netstat -ltn" lxd <- working fine :-)
<Nafallo> using the dynamic inventory on my laptop ;-)
<Nafallo> did ansible -m service -a "name=ssh state=stopped" lxd before
<diplo> I never use the single liners, how do you know what host that is being deployed against?
<diplo> I take it that it reads /etc/ansible/hosts by default
<Nafallo> I've specified inventory in ansible.cfg, and created a folder that contains lxd.ini lxd.py and localhost.
<diplo> Ah right, I've never thought of playing in there, will take a look later, I've pretty much solely used playbooks so far as they suit my needs, but want to tinker some more at some point soon
<Nafallo> localhost being a static inventory config with ansible_connection=local set, and the other files being slightly modified versions of the dynamic inventory scripts at ansible github contrib/inventory files.
<Nafallo> the script is just set to put all the local lxd hosts in an lxd group, and tell it to use ansible_connection: lxd ;-)
<diplo> ah OK, that sounds easy enough
<diplo> Going to install it on my solus box as it is in the repos
<Nafallo> obviously, running ansible binary instead of ansible-playbook above as well. just need to do one task on the lxd group quickly ;-)
<diplo> yeah, I keep meaning to play
<diplo> So going to try it right now
<diplo> Also haven't tinkered with sudo yet, I have a playbook ready to do it and tinker
<Nafallo> what are you planning for sudo? :-)
<Nafallo> lxd connection always uses root, since that was lxc exec <machine> <command> does ;-)
<diplo> Running commands on all our customer sites as our one user so our staff don't need root - can run same commands on all sites out of hours
<Nafallo> other than that, I tend to work around requiring to remember setting -B for playbooks by setting them to use become: false global and use a pre-task that runs sudo -v :-)
<diplo> As I said earlier, we had lots of issues with the way our staff did things, like can't get something working, lets 777 the home directory
<Nafallo> obviously for that sort of deployment your best options is probably public key + sudoers.d/ file with nopasswd locally for the deploy user :-)
<diplo> Yeah, that's my intention, just got to get all the tasks they require root for :)
<Nafallo> ah right. I see where you're going now... you want to modularise root a bit rather than allow all for these people that prefer logging in? :-P
<diddledan> SuperMatt: the installation of gnome-3-26-1604 is not automoatic because currently there's no way of defining that dependency, but if it is already installed then the "connect" part is done automatically - so other snaps depending on it will pick it up now you've got it installed
<Nafallo> hrmpf. writing a module. I've spent half the day documenting it :-P
<Nafallo> diplo, SuperMatt: if you Ansible guys use Ubuntu, I'm currently attempting to re-write https://code.launchpad.net/~tribaal/ubuntu-repository-cache/trunk in Ansible ;-)
<Nafallo> might be helpful.
<Nafallo> started writing and realised I need roles for apache2, squid and squid-deb-proxy as dependencies ;-)
<diplo> Use it against CentOS boxes mainly for work, but will take a look on one of my ubuntu machines tomorrow
<diplo> Afternoon has been manic :(
<diddledan> gog.com freebie: https://www.gog.com/#giveaway
<daftykins> hrmm got forward a few of the Google G Suite GDPR emails, so have to find out what the deal with that is...
<daftykins> my instinct is that being outside of the EU, there isn't much for us rock dwellers to do
<zmoylan-pi> you're not outside of the eu yet... and the final deal might mean it applies to you rock dwellers too?
<daftykins> yes we are :) never been in the EU
<zmoylan-pi> ...please send me a crate of happy sleepy sleep snoozy snooze... :-)
<daftykins> o0
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-14
 * diddledan blames the rocks for pulling us out
<diddledan> still a terrible contraception technique
<daftykins> works for me (:
<daftykins> ah, the band London Grammar are ace
<diddledan> not heard them
<daftykins> only just recently been trying out their new album :)
 * diddledan got boobtube red while in the colonies
<diddledan> no more adverts!
<daftykins> allow me to fix that - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQkkIbZNi-c
<diddledan> mmm, nice
<LernerClip> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DARtGHyWAAE2vsB.jpg
 * daftykins nudges diddledan 
<daftykins> you click it!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<SaberStolly> Hello I am on me hols.
<diplo> Anyone here dealing with GDPR ?
<foobarry> good luck
<SuperMatt> gdpr?
<SuperMatt> global dog poo resurgence?
<diplo> General data protection regulation
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's the new eu data rules and regs
<SuperMatt> ah right
<SuperMatt> I'm not having to deal with it, but it doesn't mean that I won't
<diplo> Thanks foobarry - getting asked by customers a lot, my bosses are as ever sitting on the fence
<SuperMatt> chances are my company is already compliant by dint of being paranoid
<zmoylan-pi> ie. for the love of turing, encrypt your data...
<diplo> ENISA guidelines are what we need to follow apparently
<diddledan> for the devs, a valentines joke: https://twitter.com/invalidname/status/963798968437280768
<foobarry> its about the power to remove your data which is tricky
<foobarry> e.g. a student asked for records deleted. how is that achieved?
<foobarry> if they are in module lists, exam results, databases, everywhere
<foobarry> 0% [Connecting to security.ubuntu.com (2001:67c:1360:8001::17)]
<foobarry> sigh
<diplo> Only where relevant foobarry - if it's needed to be kept for 'reasons' so for us, invoices need to be kept for 7 years or 6 or whatever, we don't have to delete those invoices because by law we need to keep them
<diplo> so if you have similar things to keep students records for a period of timeBut from my hour of studying this so far, a lot of it is bloody hazy!
<foobarry> good thing its not my job to fix
<diplo> Yeah, not sure who's it is in our office
<diplo> :/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-15
<diddledan> interesting WSL developments: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2018/02/07/windowswsl-interop-with-af_unix/
<diddledan> why do folk love to point out when they're the "first" to comment, message, etc. in a forum or chat?
<zmoylan-pi> it's now an online comment trope... as much as a hello mum sign behind a tv commentator
<daftykins> diddledan: idiots on the internets!
<diddledan> INORITE
<daftykins> what's funny is when someone does that and gets second ;D
<ali1234> unix sockets eh? that should make running a desktop environment a lot easier
<diddledan>  "How To Make Package Managers Cry" (https://youtu.be/NSemlYagjIU)
<diddledan> Desktop environments is one thing, but what about sharing ssh-agent between dows and wsl?!
<daftykins> Comic Sans >_<
<diddledan> ><
<diddledan> Irccloud!!!!!!!
<diddledan> Y U show comic sans in comic sans?!
<daftykins> seriously?
<diddledan> Aye
<daftykins> that's a pretty amusing trick :D
<daftykins> so does it change the entire line if i refer to Comic Sans mid sentence?
<diddledan> No, just the words comic sans. The rest is untouched
<daftykins> ah, that's acceptable
<diddledan> cimic sans https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/yPThGuGu/Capture%2B_2018-02-15-02-07-38.png
<daftykins> how's this for a quirky one, an optical drive of mine is giving loads of errors on certain audio tracks of multiple CDs, but they go away if i cancel and restart...
<daftykins> must be the drive flaking out :S
<diddledan> Might be having trouble focusing
<daftykins> if i eject and reload then rip a same track again, it comes back fine though
<daftykins> this is using EAC with accuraterip together with the test and copy method, so the CRCs are compared between then also against a database of known values online
<ali1234> probably the drive belt is getting worn out
<ali1234> stopping it will allow it to cool and grip again
<ali1234> do CD drives even have drive belts? ;)
<ali1234> sometimes apparently http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/cec51/cec-26.jpg
<daftykins> it's a pretty annoying drive as i have to hit eject about 20 times typically to open it up, something sits and spins most of the time
<daftykins> only when it's been idle for a while, though
<daftykins> real shame as it's been ace and fast for accurate rips
<ali1234> that is also caused by a worn out belt, but a different one
<ali1234> not so much worn out as just perished
<daftykins> yip, but i think i've already had it open - or maybe i'm thinking of another drive
<daftykins> anywho onto the next disc i suppose
<daftykins> more concerningly, ever have half your face suddenly begin peeling for no good reason - and nothing helps? not even moisturising...
<daftykins> life and its' little surprises
<foobarry> got me some nvidia volta GPUs..these things are fast
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> \o
<diddledan> foobarry: how much were those voltas?
<diddledan> the Dual EC DRBG problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nybVFJVXbww
<diddledan> any non IANALs? looking at my philips hue copyright blurb they offer source code for the gpl stuff "up to three years from purchase". Just wondering if they're allowed to limit the availability term there
<zmoylan-pi> they might just have the code on a floppy disc... good luck reading that after a few years sitting on a shelf... :-)
<diddledan> *hug* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxNdQJSlg54
<ali1234> popey: does anyone ever look at the moderation queue on ubuntu-devel mailing list? cos will replied to my mail but i still didn't get a moderation response either way. "Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive notification of the moderator's decision."
<popey> I think so
<ali1234> i assume he picked it up from the CC
<popey> looks like cjwatson is the only person
<ali1234> i can understand if the queue is a bit larger than normal after that post :)
<popey> heh
<popey> I think everyone is posting their carefully considered thoughts elsewhere tbh
<ali1234> actually this happened the last time i tried to post there
<ali1234> that was 6 years ago though
<diddledan> something fun going on?
 * diddledan will check the ml in a bit
<popey> define $fun
<diddledan> popcorn throwing at the moaning idiots?
<diddledan> I saw Xen posted his retirement from "helping"
<diddledan> curiously it was almost immediately after Zeljan stopped talking on the Ubuntu Podcast telegram
<diddledan> my mind correlated those events
<diddledan> dear god spammers will try anything: "Get your WikiPedia Page at 85% off"
<zmoylan-pi> as george carlin said, think of the average intelligence and remember that 50% are dumber than that and they'll get loads of clicks...
<brobostigon> if like myself and my father you have an average IQ 154, thats a standaard.
<brobostigon> betweem us, i mean.
<zmoylan-pi> yes but as you age your gullibility goes up...
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: if your my father, his enginerring creativity ideas goes up, but the logic goes downhill.
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: or when he has studied nuclear physics and worked at sellafield, and you wonder why he doesnt understand the basics of quantum mechanics.
<diddledan> there's a reason they call quantum things such names as "spooky action at a distance" - specifically because NOBODY understands it
<diddledan> see with that particular one, it kinda breaks the rule that information cannot travel faster than light, because if you move the entangled pair apart far enough you can use it for instantaneous data transfer faster than light can travel
<zmoylan-pi> wormholes... :-)
<brobostigon> thats exactly the point, they are entangled, time and space is irrelivant.
<diddledan> it will be interesting when we actually start using such methods for communication - imagine being on mars with a data link to earth with zero latency beyond the normal internetty style latencies
<brobostigon> one could be one side of the universe and the other totally the opposite side, space and time doesnt matter for thst entanglement.
<diddledan> I love the ideas that such properties can enable
<brobostigon> diddledan: i dont think we can manipulate quantum particles on those fine scales with that accuracy yet.
<diddledan> I don't suppose we can, but imagine it when we develop those skills!
<diddledan> we'll probably be close to large scale fusion at that point, too :-p
<brobostigon> i read about quantum mechanics when i was a teenager and i couldnt help but be consume by the idea, it seemed perfectly right for my teenage autie mind,
<diddledan> :-)
<brobostigon> now that would be good, :)
<brobostigon> diddledan: i was one of those people, when i had physics lessons, i corrected my physics teacher during lessons.
<diddledan> I did that, too
<zmoylan-pi> it might have it's downsides... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days
<daftykins> Mass Effect had entangled communication devices :> that was fun
<brobostigon> diddledan: and i still do it now, when people get it wildly wrong.
<diddledan> he wouldn't agree with me when I told him that mains voltage in the uk is specced to operate closer to 230 than 240 for interoperability with the European providers (although these days we seem to be hovering at around 246 where I am in Amazingstoke)
<daftykins> how's that vary throughout the day?
<zmoylan-pi> i once argued with a teacher who insisted that sunday was the start of the week for over an hour... was super popular with rest of the class as no one had the homework done for that day :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> it doesn't tend to drop below 240, but it'll vary a few V either way depending on load. I've seen it pop over 254 before at which point my UPS goes into AVR mode
<daftykins> i have a client who sets their Outlook calendar like that, insanity
<zmoylan-pi> i couldn't let it pass when he tried to pass off that nonsense as the truth...
<diddledan> "my arbitrary decision has no more or less relevance than yours" :-p
<diddledan> I vote Wednesday as the start!
<daftykins> my UPS currently states over 77 million volts
<daftykins> ace software
<diddledan> hmm, what have you got it plugged into?!
<zmoylan-pi> except that in uk and ireland monday is the legal definition. in astronomy too for record keeping
<diddledan> did you pull the undersea cable and shove it directly into your UPS??!
<daftykins> a big cable snaking across to Cape de la Hague power station ;D
<daftykins> ah there we go, 246 - 248
<diddledan> one to snap? https://www.myabandonware.com/game/blade-runner-a43
<diddledan> I should probably get a graphing thing plugged into my ups and see the overall trends
<daftykins> i wonder if it has all the original video sequences
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-16
<SuperMatt> morning all
<Nafallo> morning SuperMatt
<zleap> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> I'm so done with being ill
<SuperMatt> can someone just extract teh luirgy from me?
<brobostigon> same here, feeling very ill.
<foobarry> what sort of ill?
<SuperMatt> all of the ill
<brobostigon> exactly, every kind of ill.
<foobarry> right, i've asked a few times but a bit unsure
<foobarry> how do i use LetsEncrypt certificates on a machine on internal network?
<diddledan> foobarry: I think you need to use DNS record-based verification of the domain, rather than http-based verification (which would require direct access). I'm not sure how that's achieved, though.
<m6lpi> you mean internal to internal?
<foobarry> usually LE need to see your server on the web every X days to revalidate
<foobarry> but i don't wanna put the server on the web
<foobarry> i thought SuperMatt or someone mentioned a way to do it with certbot
<diddledan> "do we need a new internet" (tomorrow's world podcast): http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05y10x8
<zmoylan-pi> but only for the blackjack and hookers? :-P
<SuperMatt> I've never done it before, so I don't know how it works
<SuperMatt> I only use LE for my public domains
<foobarry> https://ins.jku.at/news/how-use-certbot-setting-letsencrypt-certificates-behind-reverse-proxy
<foobarry> although reading this on friday is hurting my brain
 * zmoylan-pi breaks the glass and passes out the emergency crunchies...
<SuperMatt> can I have a curly wurly instead?
<Nafallo> SuperMatt: {
 * zmoylan-pi looks through the leftover selection boxes and looks for a lurking curlywurly...
<Nafallo> hrm. I seem to have eaten all my chocolate.
<Nafallo> that's unfortunate.
<SuperMatt> zmoylan-pi: if not that, I'll go for a creme egg
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't bought a creme egg since kraft bought the company and changed the recipie
<SuperMatt> I've not noticed any difference in taste
<diddledan> damn, google is failing me - I wanted the clip of Janet in Two Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps where she is walking funny because she misses Jonny
<diddledan> specifically because she tried replicating him with a Curly Wurly and it went very wrong
<SuperMatt> eeewwwww
<diddledan> love that show
<diplo> Great show diddledan
<diplo> And famous boy, he's in print now :)
<diddledan> I'm internet famous
 * zmoylan-pi dials 0118 999 881 999 119 7253 and reports diddledan to the cyber police...
<SuperMatt> I own http://01189998819991197253.org
<Laney> 0181 811 81 81
<SuperMatt> I can't remember which satuday morning tv show that was, but I do remember it was a saturday morning tv show
<zmoylan-pi> not the multicoloured swap shop but close... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Coloured_Swap_Shop#Telephone_number
<Laney> too old for me
 * Laney nicks zmoylan-pi's walking stick
 * zmoylan-pi reaches over and picks up folded up spare walking stick and clicks it into position...
<Laney> the click sounded very satisfying in my head
<Laney> carry on
<zmoylan-pi> a proper cool metalic *snick* that is quite satisfying
<SuperMatt> ah, it was live and kicking
<diddledan> live and kicking
<diplo> See if any of you guys have an idea
<diddledan> I have many ideas
<diplo> We use an application call SecureCRT which is a terminal emulater
<diplo> We use ssh tunnels to port forward to connect to some internal web apps on customer istes
<diplo> sites*
<diplo> fine on windows to do 443 -> 443 to IP
<diplo> Linux I have to set a higher range
<diplo> So using 1001 to 443 is fine
<diddledan> <1024 is restricted to root-only
<diplo> I thought that too
<diplo> Can we get around that ?
<diddledan> there might be a sysctl
<diddledan> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/413807/is-there-a-way-for-non-root-processes-to-bind-to-privileged-ports-on-linux
<diplo> Top man, my google fu has been failing me for the last 10 mins
<diplo> thought I'd poke you lot
<diddledan> :-)
<ensuring> https://imgur.com/a/gUkZ5 sweating to send a cheque for this.
<diplo> Can't work out if it is persitent though
<diddledan> I believe it is
<diddledan> it's a metadata adjustment like suid
<diplo> Yeah just found a page explaining that :P thanks again
<diplo> May do my first snap this weekend
 * daftykins unveils a stack of twigs
<daftykins> have at it!
<diddledan> snap all the things!
<diddledan> oh gawd. this is going to be interesting: http://www.eweek.com/security/u.s.-formally-accuses-russia-of-launching-notpetya-ransomware-attack
<curiousBean> congrats on president zamaposa.SA (I sent him an Alexa)   https://i.imgur.com/AENWREi.jpg
<daftykins> i don't think that's particularly on topic for here
<zmoylan-pi> meanwhile in reality the editor wars continue... vim forever :-)
<diddledan> vim ftw
<foobarry> vim
<foobarry> the war is over
<foobarry> although somebody incorrectly answered notepad++ in an interview the other day
<diddledan> what a moron
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully your cattle prod was nearby and fully charged...
<diddledan> I hope you pointed out their error
<diddledan> lol @ title: Lobbing cats into the walled garden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AB76vlfVqY
<zmoylan-pi> ahahahaha... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/apple-s-new-spaceship-campus-has-one-flaw-and-it-hurts
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-17
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> now time to get up and check to see if my lottery ticket turned into a pumpkin overnight... :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> confirmed.... enough winnings to buy a nokia 3310 3g :-)
<brobostigon> thats about 50quid then.
<zmoylan-pi> â¬80 here in the republic
<brobostigon> ah.
<zmoylan-pi> 2g version is 50 quid in uk and 3g is abit pricier
<zmoylan-pi> a 4g version is coming out in china to make your sms even faster :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> and nokia have become #3 phone seller in uk in last few months... so not bad for a company killed by ms...
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> nokia/hmd
<zmoylan-pi> yes well there are a few /nokias/ now... nokia-nokia the original, ms nokia *spit*, hmd nokia... and i think foxconn have a nokia brand they can use in china...
<brobostigon> and it definitly helps that they seem to be keeping their phones well up to date, unlike most phone manifacturers.
<zmoylan-pi> not a lot of nokia in that... :-P
<brobostigon> good point.
<zmoylan-pi> nice to see a company i really like bounce back post elop
<brobostigon> definitly.
<zmoylan-pi> and having made a few billion off ms... not many companies do that and survive
<brobostigon> quite.
<zmoylan-pi> only apple springs to mind when ms invested in them when jobs went back in the 90s... apple did rather well out of that i hear... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> ...right off to collect winnings and phone... o/
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> :12
<brobostigon> woops
 * zmoylan-pi watches nokia 3310 charge... and waits... and waits...
<daftykins> it's akin to a kettle, right?
<zmoylan-pi> not really, if i dropped a kettle it might get dented.... :-)
<daftykins> a friend had that crazy CAT smartphone with the built in FLIR last night
<daftykins> we had fun over the restaurant table looking at how warm each others faces were
<Nafallo> daftykins: you went for indian? :-)
<daftykins> nah, www.slaughterhouse.gg
<zmoylan-pi> oh yeah, i saw pics from one on imgur... guy took a pic and was terrified when a glass door reflected his heat back and made it look like an intruder...
<Nafallo> lol
<zmoylan-pi> see if they had a nokia in their hand, they'd have +2 bludgeon weapon rating... :-P
<daftykins> some fine pork ribs, om nom nom
<penguin42> daftykins: I wish I had one of those FLIR things after my encounter with a scalding 13A plug last week
<zmoylan-pi> you'd have to wear it strapped to your face to pick up on that though...
<penguin42> well, I was looking for what was causing the hot smell
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh, good point...
<zmoylan-pi> flush out a predator maybe... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> the cold drives them inside... we know they like heat... :-D
<Nokaji> how do I configure an additional internal drive so I can write to it? - long time since I had to do this
<Nokaji> ext3/ext4, currently partitioned but no data
<brobostigon> look up the rw flag for mount. :)
<Nokaji> okie ... I rememeber something about setting 1000 or maybe 1001 but I can go form there, ty
<brobostigon> yw.
<brobostigon> but yes also your user needs rw permissions to it as well, as well as telling mount you can read and write to and from it.
<Nokaji> Ah ... it's all coming back to me :) ... user and group or something
<brobostigon> but nominally if you mounted said internal drive with something like nautilus, which will use fuse, it will do all that for you.
<Nokaji> time for a break ... and a drink to er ... celebrate
<brobostigon> :)
<Nokaji> Oh
<Nokaji> I seem to remember it worked for a coupla reboots then no access ... was a while back so could be mistaken
<ali1234> penguin42: adafruit has an 8x8 FLIR camera
<ali1234> it's really cheap. like Â£20 i think
<ali1234> i've been trying to get the webcam gadget driver working so i can make a FLIR webcam, but it seems to be broken, or the documentation is out of date, i dunno
<penguin42> ali1234: Interesting, is it much more use than the IR thermometers?
<ali1234> i don't know, i haven't seen it work yet
<ali1234> https://www.adafruit.com/product/3538
<penguin42> hmm the component by itself without the regultor and shifting is about Â£15-20
<penguin42> (from a normal UK supplier, or Â£78 on ebay!)
<ali1234> it just about fits in the official pi zero case https://photos.app.goo.gl/z5uDCvCFhoByJ5bi1
<penguin42> ali1234: Probably not high enough res for cat  recognition
<ali1234> probably not but it would work for finding burning plugs :)
<penguin42> true :-)
<ali1234> i plan to overlay the thermal image on the regular camera image with gstreamer, and then re-expose the result through a USB gadget device
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> (Panasonics data sheet points out it's under export regs, I believe that's part of what limits the resolution/update rate available)
<ali1234> figures
<ali1234> i bought it from pimoroni anyway
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-18
<CaptWho> I have a Buffalo NAS that I'm trying to connect to from a 16.04 desktop. Does anyone have a good link with setup instructions. I'm not having much luck with the places I've found.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Nafallo> morning
<brobostigon> morning
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-10
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<BigRedS> hello!
<Chunkyz> Sup
<brobostigon> \o/
 * zxmoypi downloads a distro or three to try on new cheap desktop to see if any of them will see the wifi and bluetooth. 
<Chunkyz> Do it.
<brobostigon> dont forget openbsd and haiku, :)
<brobostigon> especially haiku, :D
<Chunkyz> Haiku?
 * Chunkyz goes to Google
 * zxmoypi adds haiku to list...
<Chunkyz> Wait..... What
<brobostigon> https://www.haiku-os.org/
<Chunkyz> brobostigon: what base is it running?
<brobostigon> Chunkyz: base as in kernel?
<Chunkyz> No, like arch, Debian, Ubuntu etc
<Chunkyz> What is it based off?
<brobostigon> none, it doesnt use a linux kernel.
<Chunkyz> What
<Chunkyz> Lol
<brobostigon> nor any linux distro.
 * Chunkyz must try it
<brobostigon> it uses a fork of the NewOS kernel.
<Chunkyz> Tbh, never heard of it.
<Chunkyz> But then again, I use Windows atm.
<brobostigon> except for at work, i have used windows since last century.
<brobostigon> havent*
<brobostigon> http://newos.org/
<Chunkyz> Gaming isn't great on Linux, tbf
<brobostigon> its runs doom, so i am happy.
<Chunkyz> Doom sucks. XD
<Chunkyz> Play a real game.
<brobostigon> blasphamy, :)
 * brobostigon puts on a dalek voice.
<Chunkyz> ð
<brobostigon> zxmoypi: dont forget https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/wireless-firmware/2046
<zxmoypi> ta for that
<brobostigon> :)
 * daftykins chuckles
<Chunkyz> daftykins: hey.
<Chunkyz> Oh, he put me on ignore.
 * Chunkyz sad
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-11
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<Chunkyz> Sup
<Chunkyz> daftykins: don't ignore me lol
<Chunkyz> Quiet here.........
<zxmoypi> i'm hunting wabbit....
 * brobostigon just got back from work.
<Chunkyz> Wabbit? Share..... Please.
<zxmoypi> just an elmer fudd reference for it's quiet...
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i failed to add 2+2 after the storm, saw cleaned out shelves at the supermarket today
<zxmoypi> was snowing when i set out for daily walk today. but not sticking so no looting
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-12
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-13
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-14
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-15
<brobostigon> morning
<MattJ> Good morning
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-16
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o/
