#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-08
<mpt> hmm
<mpt> Do we have any docs at all on how to connect to the Internet?
<mpt> there's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WiFiHowto
<mpt> which is scarily, scarily complicated
<mpt> I assume that will get much better with NetworkManager
<mpt> but I can't find any docs on connecting over dialup or DSL or LAN
<WaterSevenUb> Hi... When will the import of PO files to Rosetta be finished?
<WaterSevenUb> I mean... to the Breezy release templates....
<jsgotangco> hey all
<jsgotangco> hey hornbeck nice seeing you here again
<Madpilot> ah, some actual life on this channel
<jsgotangco> *grin*
<jsgotangco> Madpilot: hi, just got my dsl back
<Madpilot> aside from the "<foo> has joined/disconnected" messages, that is
<Madpilot> getting internet back is good
<jsgotangco> lol the place has been quiet lately yes..
<jsgotangco> i usually arrive at this time (after lunch on my side)
<Madpilot> ah well. there are now two less entries on CategoryCleanup
<Madpilot> it's 2200 here
<jsgotangco> wiki!
<jsgotangco> (i hateses are wiki ever since)
<Madpilot> wikis seem to have become a nessesary evil or something
<Madpilot> at least we can do something about getting Ubuntu's wiki semi-coherent and possibly useful
<Madpilot> ;)
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: hi
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
<rob^> what was the problems with the server?
<Burgundavia> problems with the server?
<Burgundavia> thoughts? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IHate640x480
<rob^> mdke anyone figure out why there are weird characters on the docteam server hosted docs? or is it just me... http://65.19.178.132/gnome/faqi386/C/
<robitaille> IHate640x480:  I hate the name.  But the content is useful for a very small audience.
<Burgundavia> better name?
<robitaille> ToshibaTecraConsole
<robitaille> a bit long...
<Burgundavia> this also happens on other machines, like my fathers sony laptop
<HrdwrBoB> it's of almost no consequence to the ubuntu target audience
<Burgundavia> LaptopSmallConsole
<HrdwrBoB> in general
<HrdwrBoB> because they won't be using the console
<Burgundavia> this is bootup stuff HrdwrBoB 
<HrdwrBoB> yes
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EthiopianTeam <-- funky lettering
<robitaille> with the same logic, you should propose to get rid of the shell and xterms :)
<Burgundavia> maybe breezy+1 can deal with making the graphical bootup nice
<robitaille> Burgundavia: I like LaptopSmallConsole
<Burgundavia> ok, moving
<Burgundavia> finally got a ping back from someone I emailled about a job
<robitaille> rob^:  can't access http://65.19.178.132   you must be hitting the cache in your browser.  That must be the IP of the server that mdke rebooted a few hours ago and then "lost"
<robitaille> Burgundavia:  was it a positive ping?
<Burgundavia> however, the following things are wrong the company: use a hotmail addy, wanted a .doc and couldn't deal with my .pdf (said they couldn't open it)
<Burgundavia> but I will see where they go
<robitaille> is it  a very small shop?  it is as if they REALLY need a good sysadmin
<Burgundavia> this is not a tech job, I don't think
<Burgundavia> I honestly don't remember what this job is about
<Burgundavia> what do you think we should do with all these created talk pages
<Burgundavia> the ones that list the old subpages?
<robitaille> I personally never use the talk pages.
<Burgundavia> shall I delete them all as harmful?
<robitaille> I would strongly suggest that you propose the idea to the ML before you start deleting them :)
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> I just wanted to gauge the general reaction before I did so
<robitaille> I would zap them all.
<rob^> http://www.linuxhd.com/ubuntufaq/faqi386/C/index.html
<rob^> I think he had the directory wrong
<rob^> he had gnome/faqi386/C/
<rob^> its just a preview..
<Madpilot> ?
<jsgotangco> hi
<Madpilot> hi - just had our 2nd power outage in four nights...
<Madpilot> plays hell with my attempts to set personal uptime records!
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> i had a power outage at home last night too but it got fixed by the power company after an hour
<jsgotangco> me and my neighbor had no electricity for at least an hour
<Madpilot> yeah, these have all been short - just a couple of minutes tonight
<Madpilot> but it's still unusual for this city...
<jsgotangco> where is that?
<Madpilot> Victoria, BC, Canada
<jsgotangco> ahh right
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> shouldn't you be sleeping by now heh
<Madpilot> it's only 0150 here. I'll go to bed in a bit
<HrdwrBoB> heh
<HrdwrBoB> it's 1909 here
<HrdwrBoB> .. dinner time!
<Madpilot> 1909 in Oz - and that's on Wednesday evening right?
* Madpilot is still confused by the whole Date Line thing...
<HrdwrBoB> yes
<HrdwrBoB> wednesday everning
<HrdwrBoB> evening
<Madpilot> cool. is 0212 Weds. morning here.
<Madpilot> got to be at work by 0900. sleep might be a good idea...
<HrdwrBoB> heh
<HrdwrBoB> yes, sleep is well worth it
<mdke> docteam server back up
<mdke> (sigh of relief)
<jsgotangco> bye bye (seems no one is around anyway)
<mgalvin> hi all
<mdke> hi mgalvin 
<mgalvin> hey mdke
<jjesse> morning :)
<mgalvin> morning jjesse
<mpt> https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-doc
<mdke> cool
<mdke> we still have that problem with weird characters on our server btw
<mgalvin> mdke, even with a rebuild?
<mdke> I changed the locale to en_us.utf8 and rebuilt, same problem
<mgalvin> hmm
<mgalvin> are you building it on the linnode or on your machine?
<mdke> on the linode
<mgalvin> what versions of our tools are on the linode, possible issue there maybe?
<mgalvin> just a thought
<mdke> possibly all the tools are not installed
<mdke> the machine is standard hoary
<mgalvin> hmm, docbook-xslt is not on hoary by default iirc
<mdke> well I installed some stuff
<mdke> but maybe I missed some things out
<mdke> lemme try
<mgalvin> ok, just a thought, it worth checking at least
<mdke> E: Couldn't find package docbook-xslt
<mgalvin> er, docbook-xsl rather
<mdke> that is installed
<mdke> docbook-xml wasn't tho, installing now, just in case
<mdke> odd that they appear fine in konq
<mgalvin> hmm, maybe try building them on your machine the move those files over to linode to try and verify that is not the build itself... b/c those wierd chars are in the html
<mgalvin> maybe khtml can just deal with them better then gecko can
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> i couldn't see the characters in the html when I looked on the machine
<mdke> e.g.
<mdke> <div><p class="copyright">Copyright  2004, 2005 Canonical Ltd. and members of the Ubuntu Documentation Project</p></div>
<mgalvin> i could see them here via ff
<mgalvin> hmm
<mdke> perhaps it is apache after all
<mdke> and perhaps apache on my machine has the same problem
<mgalvin> i was just going to ask if you tried your orig idea of checking apache
<mgalvin> i guess its possible it could be munging stuff up somehow
<jjesse> silly question but in what channel does the ubuntu communiity council meetings meet?
<mdke> ubuntu-meeting
<mdke> jjesse, you missed the meeting :(
<jjesse> i know i did :( 
<jjesse> got my time zone conversion messed up and couldn't find the channel to join
<mdke> mgalvin, same problem if I copy the files to http://www.mdke.org/Documents/faqi386/C/
<jjesse> so the next meeting if i do my conversion right 12 utc is 8am eastern
<mdke> jjesse, you can get the current utc time by typing "date -u" in a terminal
<jjesse> cool got the conversion done right
<mgalvin> mdke, hmm
<mgalvin> i am going to try doing a fresh build here
<mgalvin> it built fine here and looks fine
<mgalvin> check it here
<mgalvin> http://www.simplifiedcomplexity.com/ubuntu/faqi386/C/
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> gtg
<mgalvin> mdke: could you set me up with a login to linode, i should be able to take a peak at it in a little while... if someone else hasn't already
<mdke> mgalvin, doing it now
<venda> mgalvin: I dont see any problem
<venda> mgalvin: infact I am nowing seeing the pages just fine
<mdke> in ff?
<venda> yeah
<mdke> i see the symbols still
<venda> can somebody with a sudoer account install lynx pls
<mgalvin> hmm, i still see them in ff
<venda> mgalvin: looks good under lynx too
<mgalvin> i see #'s in lynx and *'s in elinks
<venda> any page in particular
<mgalvin> index.html
<mgalvin> seems to show up on all of them here
<venda> nada
<venda> looks clean here
<mgalvin> the ones i looked at anyway(random pages)
<mgalvin> hmm, odd
<venda> the pages there are a 1:1 match with my loacl build
<venda> bit4 bit
<venda> but yesterday I had problems
<venda> mdke: what changed since yesteray
<mdke> i changed the locale of the user to utf8
<mdke> also i installed docbook-xml
<mdke> that's about it
<venda> well I no longer see th eproblems
<mdke> i d
<mdke> o
<venda> huh
<venda> o ki do ki
<mdke> but the pages are clean if you look at them on the server (cat index.html)
<mdke> which makes me think it's apache
<venda> mdke: bit4bit they match my local build
<mdke> ok can't be the build then i guess
<venda> no and I no longer see the problems I had yesterday
<venda> but mgalvin says he does see problems
<mdke> me too
<mdke> on both my computers
<venda> so just me sees all OK, that's all that counts. It's OK then :-)
<venda> Ah Kubuntu
<venda> no you on Gentoo, no?
<venda> Hmm lemme see from SuSE
<mdke> on gentoo and hoary
<froud> looks good on SuSE ff
<mdke> kde?
<froud> Both KDE
<froud> Something in GNOME you think, nah, can it be
<mgalvin> i would doubt it but anything is possible i guess
<mdke> doubt it
<froud> anyone else have a kde box
<froud> mdke: you said it was only that doc?
<jjesse> i have a kde box
<jjesse> sorry was afk
<jjesse> whats up?
<jjesse> <--- kubuntu
<froud> http://www.simplifiedcomplexity.com/ubuntu/faqi386/C/index.html
<froud> jjesse: do you see any problems in the page
<mgalvin> froud: thats my build of it, as yes that one looks fine
<jjesse> that looks fine for me
<mgalvin> froud: the issue only shows up on the linode server and mdke's server
<froud> arh
<mgalvin> froud: jjesse: try hitting the faq on linode
<jjesse> linode address?
<mgalvin> http://65.19.178.132/gnome/faqi386/C/
<jjesse> no problems on the first page, looks clean to me in konqueror
<jjesse> chedked other pages no issues
<mgalvin> how about in ff
<venda> hmmm only happens in ff
<mgalvin> maybe a gecko problem with the locale
<mgalvin> khtml seems to handle it just fine
* mgalvin is starting to guess wildly
<froud> What is Opera asking for cert
<froud> wiki.ubuntu.com
<froud> Canonical Ltd
<froud> IM
<froud> emailAddress: webmaster@ubuntu.com
<froud> Issuer
<froud> wiki.ubuntu.com
<froud> Canonical Ltd
<venda> arh
<venda> dumb thing
<venda> opera has the same problems as ff
<froud> Mozilla has same problem
<mgalvin> just strange that it is only happening when viewing the docs from linode
<mgalvin> mine build is just fine
<froud> when I switch encoding in the browser it is fixed
<froud> iso-8859-1 works well
<froud> when I switch to utf-8 I get the problems
<mgalvin> hah, it utf8 then
<mgalvin> confirmed, same here
<mgalvin> mdke: you chaged the locale right? can you try changing it back?
<venda> my users env is set LANG=en_US.UTF-8
<venda> mdke: what is the ubuntu-docs user LANG
<mdke> mgalvin, what to?
<venda> do env
<venda> see LANG=en_US.UTF-8
<mdke> yes, but what do you want me to change it to
<venda> no leave it
<mdke> mgalvin, you asked if I can change it?
<venda> just need to kow what it is
<venda> sean@none:/etc/apache2/conf.d$ cat charset
<venda> AddDefaultCharset UTF-8
<venda> sean@none:/etc/apache2/conf.d$  
<venda> in apache2.conf
<venda> is #AddDefaultCharset      ISO-8859-1
<venda> meant to be commented out?
<mdke> you can only have one defaultcharset i reckon
<mdke> but I think ISO-8859-1 is the recognised charset for the web
<venda> and the default has been set in conf.d/charset
<venda> change the charset
<venda> edit /etc/apache2/conf.d$ cat charset
<venda> change to ISO-8859-1
<venda> apache2.conf adds AddCharset UTF-8       .utf8
<venda> and ISO-8859-1
<venda> but AddDefaultCharset   ISO-8859-1
<mdke> will try
<mdke> the server is real slow to respond
<venda> see k my side
<venda> seems fine
<mdke> ok i think that has fixed it :D
<mdke> check?
<venda> na da
<venda> Hmm
<venda> did you restart
<venda> apache
<mdke> i did
<mdke> i don't get the problems now here
<venda> you dont
<venda> Hmm maybe proxy my side
<mdke> did you shift reload
<venda> bingo it works
<mgalvin> fixed here :)
<venda> cool
* venda gives hikmself a noddy badge
<venda> gone in search of coffee
<mdke> thanks venda
<venda> np was beginning to doubt our sanity for a min
* venda goes to bo bo land
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-09
<Burgundavia> rwabel, please do a search of the wiki before creating a page
<Burgundavia> rwabel, OperaBrowser already existed
<Burgundavia> any idea what this UbuntuMagazine is?
<rwabel> Burgundavia: ok, sorry
<Burgundavia> rwabel, np
<Burgundavia> I just made your page redir to the old one
<rwabel> there are some troubleshooting on mine. I gonna add them in the others page
<Burgundavia> ok
<rwabel> how can I retrieve my old page?
<Burgundavia> look at the diff
<Burgundavia> click get info
<Burgundavia> then view the diff
<rwabel> ok, thanks...mhh I don't like that Nicholas completely removed vegastrike...even if you can get it through hoary bp now
<Burgundavia> huh?
<rwabel> when I diff I only get tha latest entry of OperaBrowser and not Opera (my old page)
<Burgundavia> you need to go back to Opera
<Burgundavia> just a sec
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Opera?action=recall&rev=2
<Burgundavia> there is your old versin
<rwabel> thanks
<Madpilot> hi all
<Madpilot> what's the wiki page that lists recent edits & changes? wiki search hasn't helped
<Madpilot> nvr mind, I lie. wiki search did find it, on the third choice of keywords...
<judax> greets
<robitaille> it seems a new version of IPodder is out (2.1); which means I should probably update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IPodder.  What do you think Aunt Tilley prefers:  instruction on how to install a tar.gz package, or instruction on how to use alien to install a rpm file in Ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> any debian packages out there?
<robitaille> not that I can see.  the rpm thing is very recent.  before it was only the tar file
<Burgundavia> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/03/msg02582.html
<Burgundavia> itp
<Burgundavia> http://applications.linux.com/print.pl?sid=05/03/01/155208
<Burgundavia> talks about aliening it
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ParagraphStyleSimpleFrontPage
<Burgundavia> kill it?
<Madpilot> "This page was a testing area for ideas about a different Style of frontpage. It is probably now out of date."
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> another thought
<Burgundavia> should I create a CategoryDevelopment, for the active development stuff>
<Burgundavia> ?
<robitaille> maybe I will go the alien route for Ipodder.  If it works, it will be simpler than the current instructions on the Wiki.
<Madpilot> Is there going to be a CategoryCategory, to categorize all the categories? :p
<Burgundavia> should already be one
<Madpilot> um, I was kidding... is there really one?
<Burgundavia> should be
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryCategory  <-- Dog, there really is one...
<Madpilot> does this wiki have a "what links here" like the MediaWiki does?
<Burgundavia> you want to remove all the pages from categorycategory?
<Burgundavia> yes, click on the page title
<Burgundavia> totally obtuse
<Madpilot> OK, thats' why the page titles are active URLs. I'd wondered.
<Madpilot> what's totally obtuse?
<Burgundavia> the clicking thing
<Burgundavia> there is also no link when editing the page to just view the page
<Madpilot> isn't that Preview?
<Burgundavia> what if I don't want to edit anymore
<Madpilot> then Save? I'm not sure what you're talking about, TBH.
<Burgundavia> no
<jsgotangco> hi
<WaterSevenUb> hi
<mgalvin> hi all
<Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=54303
<mgalvin> neat idea
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> the person doing it said he would come in here
<Burgundavia> and he did, but I guess nobody was about
<mgalvin> hmm, we'll have to have him come back we everyone is around
<Burgundavia> yes
<mgalvin> i'll comment on the forum and ask him to come back and hang around and talk to everyone
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> you know, if I do nothing but help people find the doc team, that would be good
<Burgundavia> in other boring news, I am working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
<mgalvin> we need you to help us write too :)
<mgalvin> cool
<Burgundavia> bloody hell
<Burgundavia> loosing connectins
<mgalvin> wireless?
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> wired
<Burgundavia> very odd, never seen something like this before
<Burgundavia> think it might be network-manager
<mgalvin> ah
<zAo^> lo all
<Burgundavia> hello
<Burgundavia> zAo^, you the UbuntuMagazine person?
<zAo^> nope. What is it anyway? :)
<Burgundavia> a magazine for tutorials, promoting ubuntu, etc.
<zAo^> no, but I'd like to :)
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-10
<squinn> hey everybody
<Burgundavia> salut
<poningru> evening guys
<Madpilot> hi everyone
<Burgundavia> salut Madpilot mon frere
<Madpilot> hi weasel
<jsgotangco> hey all
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
<Burgundavia> notice you checked in some edubuntu stuff
<jsgotangco> what was rob's email all about?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<jsgotangco> well its just a draft of the proposed cookbook fork
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> cool
<jsgotangco> the cookbook after all is a tuxlabs project
<Burgundavia> I about half finished the main inclusion stuff
<Burgundavia> boy is that tedious
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> did you have a good time with gcompris?
<Burgundavia> I left that to ogra
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: so that wasn't you evangelizing the KDE crowd? ;)
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> he's not a KDE guy
<jsgotangco> heh
<HrdwrBoB> ugh KDE
<jsgotangco> i used to be a KDE guy
<Burgundavia> though I had thought about evanglizing kde again
<Burgundavia> the indiana thing
<Madpilot> the what thing?
<jsgotangco> ahh
<Burgundavia> 300,000 linspire desktops for indiana shcools
<jsgotangco> w00t
<jsgotangco> thats a lot of money for linspire
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> oh well
<jsgotangco> in other news, today is my last day of my contract with my current employer
<Madpilot> nice that Linux is trying to do the Apple/Ms get-them-young thing
<jsgotangco> tommorow i officially join the ranks of the unemployed again
<jsgotangco> :)
<Madpilot> except that it's Linspire...
<Burgundavia> linspire is better that ms
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, that sucks
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you should ask canonical for a job
<jsgotangco> i don't think that's a nice idea even if its tempting
<robitaille> jsgotangco: write a Ubuntu book :)
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, why not?
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> its just not my personality to ask
<Burgundavia> be bold dammit
<jsgotangco> i'll give it some thought though
* Burgundavia thinks to himself, beer makes this task easier
<robitaille> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/work.html
<jsgotangco> the cookbook should make JaneW happy and stop playing with her whip
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> god debbugs sucks
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, do you want help with the new quickguide?
<jsgotangco> sure i'd love to we should rename it first though
<Burgundavia> ok
<jsgotangco> its basically a what's new page no?
<Burgundavia> Quick Tour?
<Burgundavia> Breezy Tour?
<jsgotangco> hmm
<Burgundavia> Whats New?
<jsgotangco> I like Quick Tour
<Burgundavia> just throwing out ideas
<jsgotangco> remember Breezy is our code
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> its not the mainstream version name
<Burgundavia> ya
<jsgotangco> brb i should be working at the moment
<jsgotangco> besides its my last day heh
<jsgotangco> i'll be back later
<Madpilot> just a thought before I head off to the gym: should we think about merging https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LinuxIntro  and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHowComeDraft
<Madpilot> they're very similar pages, at least in intent
<Burgundavia> sure
<jsgotangco> but different authors?
<Burgundavia> how about merging them into UbuntuIntro ?
<Burgundavia> better title
<Madpilot> yeah, different authors
<Burgundavia> one had been moved to obselete pages on the old wiki
<jsgotangco> hmmm if we could get the original authors on the frontmatter of the merged wiki, then i guess its ok
<jsgotangco> we still dont know if they still hold interest in the wiki pages that they made
<Madpilot> no page called UbuntuIntro yet. 
<jsgotangco> that's my opinion though
<jsgotangco> i'll brb
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, create one
<Burgundavia> we are Ubuntu not Linux
<Madpilot> rob^ has done most of the work on the HowComeDraft page - is the author of the LinuxIntro page still active?
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> it had been moved to obselete pages
<Madpilot> OK, I might start on this later tonight - but I'd like to talk to Rob first, because he's done most of the work on getting the HowComeDraft page going
<Madpilot> anyway, need food then off to the gym. 
<Madpilot> bbl
<Madpilot> ?
<Burgundavia> what
<Burgundavia> we had a netsplit
<Madpilot> OK, thought so. left the connection running while I was gone, came back to find everything down. just wondered
<Burgundavia> freenode has them frequently
<Madpilot> I've noticed - I've usually just been lucky enough to be on the non-splitting side of them so far...
<Burgundavia> you may have also been booted for being on 24 hours
<Burgundavia> freenode does that, regardless of activity
<Madpilot> ah, OK. didn't know about that policy.
<Madpilot> have you seen Rob - rob^ - around tonight?
<Burgundavia> nope
<Madpilot> too bad - wanted to talk to him about merging UbuntuHowComeDraft 
<Madpilot> ah well, it'll wait.
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto
<Burgundavia> I did some editing to it
<Burgundavia> can you make comments?
<Madpilot> sure, just a minute
<Madpilot> it looks good - but isn't Backports now offical?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> might as well add that under the hoary extras
<Madpilot> shouldn't that very last section - the one with Extras in it - be above the "totally non-Ubuntu repos" section?
<Burgundavia> the non-ubuntus section tells you how to add them
<Madpilot> hmm? sorry, I meant shouldn't Specific Non Ubuntu Repositories be above Adding outside repositories?
<Burgundavia> then the lower section tells you which ones to add
<Madpilot> oh, and fix the Capitalization on Adding outside repositories!
<Burgundavia> but you need to know how to add them before
<Burgundavia> fix it
<Burgundavia> you can login to the wiki
<Madpilot> ah, OK, I understand how you've organized it. nvr mind
<Madpilot> I am logged in. wasn't sure if you were also editing as we speak
<Burgundavia> change the wording, as it sounds confusing
<Burgundavia> nop
<Burgundavia> it would warn you
<Madpilot> change the wording of which lines?
<Burgundavia> the confusing stuff
<Burgundavia> night mon frere Madpilot 
<jsgotangco> mdke, ping?
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, once again, i am a free man
* rob^ looks
<jsgotangco> hey rob^ 
<jsgotangco> nice email :)
<zAo^> wb
<rob^> hey jsgotangco 
<rob^> yea
<rob^> its a shame I had to send it
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> oh well...
<jsgotangco> its funny how volunteer work can have a lot of polictics
<rob^> yep
<rob^> my prize/gift from the KDE docteam turned up yesterday
<rob^> an intresting book about Richard Stallman
<rob^> you can get it free under the GFDL too
<rob^> I went to thank them, as soon as I mentioned Ubuntu it was on for young and old
<rob^> lucky for me they like me :)
<jsgotangco> whoa
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> i agree with you in all parts
<rob^> you have been doing some great work lately
<rob^> so have a few others
<rob^> but some are doing nothing but causing problems and its these people that need to pull their heads in
<Burgundavia> rob^, Madpilot was looking for you, on finalzing the UbuntuHowComeDraft
<rob^> well, I had better go and help my wife finish setting up for my sons birthday party tomorrow, I'm dressing up as Mr Incredible :)
<rob^> Burgundavia, tell him I'll check it out tomorrow sometime and get back to him
<rob^> ok, night all 
<Burgundavia> night
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> Mr. Incredible with the beer beelly?
<rob^> yep thats me :)
<jsgotangco> get a very tight belt
<jsgotangco> later all
<jsgotangco> hi all
<mgalvin> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> mgalvin hey hows it going
<mgalvin> good, lurking in -meeting
<mgalvin> want to see where we are so we know what to write about
<jsgotangco> there's not much to listen to about in this scheduled meeting because its just about quick updates
<mgalvin> yea, i know, but they are at least saying what is and is not done and what things will be deferred
<mpt> oh, there's a meeting today?
<mpt> ah, not a docs meeting
<jsgotangco> hi mpt still awake i see
<mpt> It's only 1.14pm :-)
<jsgotangco> eh where are you i thought you were based in NZ
<mpt> Normally yes, but I'm in Brazil for the next few months
<mpt> until the next Ubuntu conference, probably
<jsgotangco> ahh by any chance, would you be able to review Style Guide when you have time?
<mpt> sure
<mpt> How malleable is it?
<jsgotangco> its a very open doc in terms of contribution i'll check if there's an updated preview
<jsgotangco> bu the style guide should be the foundation of future work in terms of consistency of material
<mpt> I mean, are the current docs based on points in the style guide that therefore can't be changed?
<jsgotangco> nope
<jsgotangco> it was supposed to be finished a few months ago, but no one seemed interested in contributing except me and jeff schering who started it all
<mpt> ok
<jsgotangco> http://mypage.uniserve.ca/~jeffsch/writing/styleguide/index.html
<jsgotangco> its not updated but majority of work is covered
<mpt> I won't have time to read it today, and tomorrow I'm moving from the hotel to an apartment, so maybe on Sunday
<jsgotangco> sure no rush, just give inputs on the list
<jsgotangco> i appreciate it
<mgalvin> rob^: ping
<jsgotangco> i doubt if he's awake as its 3am on australia
<jsgotangco> or depending on his location
<jsgotangco> man im so drunk im surprised i still got to go through that meeting
<jjesse> afternoon :)
<jsgotangco> morning :)
<jjesse> grin how are you jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> drunk heh
<jsgotangco> i still can't sleep but its only 1:30 am
<jjesse> are you 12 hours ahead of me?
<jjesse> its 1:30pm here
<jsgotangco> seems so :)
<jjesse> so its saturday morning for you then
<jsgotangco> yep pretty much...i just had a few drinks with friends
<jjesse> sounds like my plan for this evning
<jsgotangco> heh nice..i'll see you later
<mgalvin> does anyone remeber is fakeroot it part of the default install (i don't think it is but can
<mgalvin> 't recall
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-11
<rob^> dam
<rob^> missed him
<rob^> where are the HTML versions of man pages stored on the system?
<Nafallo> wiki-guru wanted. anyone? :-)
<rob^> umm shoot
<squinn> i'll see what i can do, Nafallo ?
<Nafallo> what do I type to get <br />? :-)
<squinn> lemme look
<Nafallo> squinn: sure :-)
<rob^> hmm how does one do eg. man:/usr/share/man/man1/xine.1.gz  in xml?
<squinn> Would it be [[BR] ] ?
<Nafallo> squinn: yay! thanx! :-)
<rob^> I want to link to man pages
<rob^> html ones so yelp displays it
<rob^> but stuffed if I can work it out
<squinn> hey jeffsch
<squinn> i'm just working on some stuff, then i'll be off to patching style guide
<jeffsch> cool
<Madpilot> hi all
<Madpilot> rob^:  you around?
<rob^> yes
<rob^> mgalvin, did you get my email?
<Madpilot> rob^: question - you've done a bunch of work on UbutuHowComeDraft - what's your opinion on merging it with LinuxIntro, which covers most of the same territory?
<Madpilot> perhaps merge into a new page called UbuntuIntro?
<mgalvin> rob^: which, about yelp?
<rob^> yeah
<Madpilot> rob^: question - you've done a bunch of work on UbutuHowComeDraft - what's your opinion on merging it with LinuxIntro, which covers most of the same territory?
<Madpilot> perhaps merge into a new page called UbuntuIntro?
<Madpilot> (sorry for the repeat, everyone else. hadn't noticed that Rob had disconnected...)
<mgalvin> yeah I got it
<rob^> Madpilot, I haven't really looked at it, but do what you think is approprate
<rob^> mgalvin, I'm thinking we could release as XML in breezy now due to that
<Madpilot> rob^: ok, I'll run with it later tonight. I should post something to the mailing list about it too
<rob^> ok, sounds good I check it out then
<mgalvin> i think froud went to great lenghts to prove that releasing the docs as html would be best(at the time yelp was not working properly)...
<mgalvin> he would be the one to convince... if it works as xml I am fine with it but a lot has been done to get the docs building as html...
<rob^> ok
<mgalvin> and the html version of kubuntu-docs is already in breezy and being uploaded weekly
<rob^> I'll bring it up with him, I just thought it looks much nicer in xml and you also get that side bar
<mgalvin> so, it is great that yelp isn't broken anymore, but i don't think we should completly toss the idea of using html docs
<mgalvin> it does look nicer...
<mgalvin> maybe we can ship the xml if it works everywhere and use the html in some other way
<rob^> no, I'm not tossing it, I'm just suggesting xml
<mgalvin> i know i understand
<rob^> maybe needs to be a mailing list discussion
<mgalvin> i am not religiously for or against using one or the other
<mgalvin> yup
<rob^> I'll send off an email later about it
<mgalvin> how does khelpcenter deal with it
<rob^> yeah, see I haven't checked that
<rob^> ok, cool, thought I'd let everyone know that it works
<rob^> I'll suggest it on the list
<mgalvin> yeah, i am glad to know it is working now, i would not have even looked at it again until after breezy
<mgalvin> sounds good
<mgalvin> brb
<rob^> neither, it was only because I was looking for a way to link man pages into the FAQ did I try yelp
<rob^> I gtg cya
<mgalvin> later rob^
<mgalvin> rob^: do you have any pending faqguide commits
<mgalvin> i want to run xmlindent on it to clean it up, some of the indentation is getting pretty messy
<mgalvin> i know it mirror but it bothers me ;p
<mgalvin> er, s/mirror/minor/
<Burgundavia> is that svn commit I just saw?
<mgalvin> hehe, yea finially have a little time to review and write a little bit
<jeffsch> Burgundavia, mgalvin: can you open faqguide in yelp? I am seeing problems. I want to make sure it's not just me.
<jeffsch> problems with the way yelp displays qandasets
<mgalvin> jeffsch: i still see this issue where the Q:
<mgalvin> are all the way to the right
<mgalvin> and the &ubuntu;&kubuntu;
<mgalvin> 's
<jeffsch> yes. and also xrefs to qandaentry's
<mgalvin> show up as UbuntuKubuntu
<mgalvin> yea
<jeffsch> rats :(
<mgalvin> might that just be an issue with the css possibly?
<mgalvin> does yelp even work with profiled docs? it doesn't seem to :-/
<jeffsch> iirc, yelp doesn't do profiling
<mgalvin> in which case we simply can't use it for the faqguide
<mgalvin> direcly anyway
<jeffsch> at least not yet... maybe qandasets are still a work in progress, and could be ready for breezy
<jeffsch> but then there's the profiling thing...
<Burgundavia> given we are almost at breezy feature freeze and have passed gnome 2.12 feature freeze I doubt it
<jeffsch> hmmm.... life would be easier if yelp didn't suck... then we wouldn't need to consider html releases
<jeffsch> oh well, live with the hand you're dealt :)
<Burgundavia> anybody else think that category UDU means absolutely nothing?
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: agreed, to late now to try a change especially since there are still very clear issues with it
<mgalvin> jeffsch, it would be nice if things didn't suck :)
<jeffsch> hehe
<mgalvin> later all
<Burgundavia> rob^, can I make a request of you? Not to respond to ubuntu-doc stuff from your work addy. It totally breaks threads
<jsgotangco> hi all
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
<Burgundavia> night
<rob^> hey whats the target to make the Kubuntu faq again?
<jsgotangco> heh i dont remember at all
<jsgotangco> jeez
<rob^> ah stuff it, I'll just do make faq
<rob^> build the whole lot
<jsgotangco> hows the Mr. Incredible show
<jsgotangco> heh
<rob^> I was making ballon animals
<rob^> fun fun
<jsgotangco> heh i should buy those ballon animal kits
<jsgotangco> im so tired of making pingu clay figures for my daughter
<rob^> heh
<rob^> It starts getting annoying when you pop a few :)
<jsgotangco> i was just reading emails
<jsgotangco> i noticed that you work for the defence dept?
<rob^> yeah
<jsgotangco> so you're in canberra?
<rob^> dam email address
<jsgotangco> heh
<rob^> no, up north
<jsgotangco> heh but you started using gmail lately
<jsgotangco> smart
<rob^> yeah at home, we are not allowed to use gmail
<rob^> whist theres nothing stopping me, its policy really
<jsgotangco> ahh yeah well you work in a sensitive area anyways
<rob^> and yeah, gmail pop3 is all good
<rob^> yep
<rob^> I still haven't worked out a way to ssh from their network
<rob^> so I can work on the faq at work :)
<jsgotangco> lol are you even allowed to do that at work (ssh)
<rob^> only into the solaris servers I administer
<rob^> even then its supposed to be plain telnet
<rob^> I refuse to use it
<jsgotangco> ahh
* rob^ has a copy of putty on his h:\ drive
<rob^> admin rights on the windows network helps too :)
<rob^> its the routers that are screwing me getting out
<rob^> I'm sure of it
<highvoltage> rob^: you're *supposed* to use telnet instead of ssh!?
<rob^> sadly, yes
<jsgotangco> lovely isnt it
<rob^> ever tried writing a long shell script using vi with windows telnet
<rob^> the scrollback on it sucks
<jsgotangco> its been raining all day here it sucks
<rob^> its cold here.. 18C
<rob^> wtf
<rob^> why is the GPL in the kubuntu faq?
<rob^> hmm
<jsgotangco> eh?
* rob^ looks at faqguide.xml
<jsgotangco> KUDOS?
<jsgotangco> ah
<rob^> no
<rob^> I cant see how that is getting in there
<rob^> and when you build the gnome version its not
<rob^> shit
<jsgotangco> are you looking at faqguide.xml in generic
<rob^> yes
<jsgotangco> let me check
<rob^> is the make file doing it?
<jsgotangco> most likely if your gnome version doesnt have it
<jsgotangco> the source only has our usual 2 licenses
<rob^> yeah thats what I'm seeing too
<rob^> ah
<rob^> I can see whats happening
<rob^> make faq isn't building the Kubuntu faq anymore for some reason
<rob^> thats why I couldn't find it before
<rob^> that is an old version incorrectly licensed
<rob^> thats weard, it was making the kubuntu faq before
<jsgotangco> i'll bbl first and settle things with dinner and family
<jsgotangco> :)
<rob^> cya
<jsgotangco> hi all
<jsgotangco> night
<highvoltage> hi, where can i find documentation regarding the ubuntu kickstarter?
<highvoltage> i searched the wiki, but the kickstart links don't work.
<highvoltage> did you guys see, that the FAQ refers to ubuntuguide? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-12
<segfault> hi
<segfault> does anyone here understand how rosetta works? :)
<Nafallo> segfault: sure, you fill in the translation in the textbox under the english sentence. and you should probably be on #launchpad instead of #ubuntu-doc :-).
<segfault> oh yes, i know how to translate.. hehe
<segfault> i'm asking just to know if i translate something related to quickguide (e.g.), does it get automatically in the next package build?
<Nafallo> the next build of language-package-CC yes.
<Nafallo> but you should probably not translate those in breezy just yet. I might be wrong though. anyone else alive? :-)
<segfault> yeah, that's another thing i don't know yet
<segfault> if translations from hoary get imported to breezy
<segfault> :/
<Madpilot> anyone alive here?
* mgalvin grumbles
<mgalvin> hi Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi mgalvin
<mgalvin> later all
<martinjh99> Hi there - What packages do I need to install for docbooks?
<Burgundavia> what do you mean?
<Burgundavia> docbook is a file format
<martinjh99> I have just downloaded the docs from svn - How do I go about changing them into something I can read ie either HTML or PDF?
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> you need xmlto
<martinjh99> xmltools? ;)
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> xmlto
<martinjh99> Ah doing that right now - Thanks!
<rob^> hmm
<Burgundavia> ?
<rob^> dam matts not here
<Burgundavia> galvin? he left about 2 1/2 hours ago
<rob^> yeah
<rob^> who is Tomas Zijdemans?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<mdke> morning all
<Burgundavia> morning
<highvoltage> morning
<rob^> umm arvo
<highvoltage> mdke: your nick keeps registering as "mandrake" with me :)
<mdke> bah
<highvoltage> thought you would say something like that ;)
* mdke shows Freddie Flintoff to rob^ 
* rob^ burps
<rob^> does anyone know who is Tomas Zijdemans?
<rob^> umm
<rob^> who he is
<mdke> no
<mdke> why?
<rob^> matt added him as an original author of the FAQ guide
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, you should be happy to know that mono will be installed by default for Breezy
<rob^> I have never heard of him and his name is not listed on ubuntuguide.org either
<mdke> rob^, is that a problem?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: I should!?
<mdke> Burgundavia, wow
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, just saw your comment in #ubuntu
<highvoltage> ah :)
* highvoltage prefers python
* Burgundavia finds is ironic that it is harder to use Sun's java than to use a MS-deriving tech
<rob^> mdke, no, but I was looking at making a few alterations to that part and noticed he was added just recently
<rob^> just wondering really
<mdke> i guess maybe a section added by matt was written by him?
<rob^> maybe, I'll ask him next time I see him
* mdke nods
<mdke> i wrote something in an email recently about what to do with the ubuntu userguide, did anyone have any thoughts?
<jsgotangco> hi
<mdke> hi jsgotangco :)
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
* rob^ looks
<jsgotangco> wow its a sunday and the channel is busy
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> only just sunday here
* rob^ can't find the email
<jsgotangco> its kinda old email
<rob^> what was the subject?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: hehe.
<Burgundavia> the only email I see is the commit stuff
<mdke> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-August/003167.html
<highvoltage> are you guys familiar with xul?
<mdke> in the second paragraph
<Burgundavia> mdke, what about it?
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, froud has some experience with it
<rob^> I think the FAQ Guide and Local Help would be better being one in the same
<rob^> The userguide should be the place people go for more information
<mdke> Burgundavia, i wondered if people had some thoughts about what to do with the ubuntu userguide: it will clearly not get finished as it is currently specced, and its probably not useful to duplicate so much material
<jsgotangco> i agree
<Burgundavia> to be honest, I would kill it
<Burgundavia> I think user guides are useless
<mdke> i think possibly the material that exists which described linux, gnu, and ubuntu might be useful
<Burgundavia> yes
* jsgotangco believes there is really no need for a user guide, just fix the existing upstream docs in terms of category, etc. and you have your user guide for all the apps
<mdke> chapter 1 here: http://tseng2.ath.cx/~ubuntu-doc/userguide/C/
<rob^> the userguide could be a sought of "index" for upstream docs
<jsgotangco> rob^: right
<Burgundavia> ya
<rob^> cool
<mdke> interesting idea
<Burgundavia> if the gnome doc project eventually gets it act together, we can also use some of that
<rob^> yep
<Burgundavia> but that is unlikely witht eh current crew
<Burgundavia> they need someone to come along and do it
* jsgotangco shoves Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> post-breezy, we need canonical to fund some yelp work
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, ya right
<rob^> Burgundavia, agreed
<rob^> badly, maybe even make it a bounty or something
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> it has been discussed in the breezy and hoary cycles
<Burgundavia> but nothing came of it
<Burgundavia> after sept, we should identify what needs to be done, and present a list to jdub/mdz
<rob^> I noticed they did some work recently on it getting qandaset to work, but it still needs work
<rob^> yep
<Burgundavia> there are some patches sitting upstream that are going to miss .12 and breezy
<mdke> as long as it displays html ok, we're fine IMO
<rob^> yes
<rob^> one day I would like to see xml though
<Burgundavia> search and printing would be nice
<mdke> yes
<rob^> it looks like a help app with xml, with html it just looks like a browser
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, was that meant for this channel?
<jsgotangco> ohh
<jsgotangco> crap
<jsgotangco> heh
<rob^> I wonder if we could have yelp point to some online thing that we could easily update
<jsgotangco> some online thing that we can update?
<rob^> yeah
<Burgundavia> a wiki or something similar?
<rob^> just a thought
<jsgotangco> just point it to a wiki entry
<jsgotangco> i've thought of that before
<jsgotangco> extending yelp to the wiki
<jsgotangco> since yelp docs are frozen
<jsgotangco> your updated doc or errata should be somewhere
<Burgundavia> the people who turn to help are likely not to have an internet connection
<rob^> like an online server where we could move releases of the svn repo stuff every now and then
<rob^> it could default to a set of docs on the system when there is no net connection
<rob^> but use the up to date ones when there is
<mdke> why?
<rob^> then we could make changes/additions after release
<mdke> we can do that now
<rob^> yes
<Burgundavia> we can push it into hoary-updates
<mdke> you need permission to upload to updates
<rob^> but this wouldn't require anyone to update to use it
<rob^> it would be just "there"
<Burgundavia> updates are enabled by default
<rob^> I dunno, just a thought I guess
<Burgundavia> it is just another repo
<mdke> i quite like the current system
<rob^> maybe one day when I decided to relearn C or something I could do something :P
<jsgotangco> heh
<Burgundavia> bah
<rob^> we could do a simple "svn release faqguide.xml" and it would compile a html version and upload it to a web server, with Yelp pointing to that web server
* rob^ goes back into his shell
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> I don't see this idea failing gracefully
<rob^> its just a thought, it would require a lot of work to implement properly
<rob^> and planning
<Burgundavia> what I mean by failing gracefully is gaining/loosing internet connections
<jsgotangco> hmmm does docbook have a tag for footnotes or something or do i make a structure workaround using xref?
<rob^> yeah, like I said a lot of planning/work would be required to account for things like this
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: do you think its a good time to start on the new quickguide now or should we wait for another milestone release
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, we can rough the ideas in now
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, .12 features are set, and our feature freeze is 7 days away
<jsgotangco> sure we get .12 anyways
<jsgotangco> bulk of the doc would be a rehash of the .12 preview
<rob^> just a question, how does feature freeze effect our documents
<Burgundavia> doesn't
<rob^> good
<jsgotangco> it doesn't it just gives a clear picture of what's inside
<Burgundavia> our writing stops on Sept. 8
* rob^ is about to go thru his first Ubuntu one since joining UDT
* jsgotangco stress level rising
<Burgundavia> rob^, lets kick the faq guide and local help together. I am not entirely happy with the faqguide, but it is a step in the right direction
<jsgotangco> err guys
<jsgotangco> don't forget our Style Guide is almost done
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> once agreed to be released all docs should comply to it
<Burgundavia> ok
* Burgundavia confesses to have not actually read it
<rob^> Burgundavia, I think we need to go with what we have for the FAQ Guide for Breezy, but after that I'm happy to make some big changes
<Burgundavia> sure
<Burgundavia> I was dreaming about a better server guide already
<jsgotangco> err..well not really "should" but at least please refer to it once when its done
<rob^> jsgotangco, I have had a few looks at it, good work
<rob^> its handy
<jsgotangco> sure additions are always welcome to it since its supposed to be our manual
<Burgundavia> mdke, that frontpage thing I sent to the list, that is a relic of those dicussions, no?
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> i deleted most of the others
<Burgundavia> ok
<mdke> just left that one because I remember you wrote it ;)
<Burgundavia> I did?
* Burgundavia has no recollection of this
<mdke> i think
<Burgundavia> totally random OT link --> http://www.venganza.org/noodledoodle_bg3.jpg (Yes, it is 3am here)
<jsgotangco> see you guys later we have church at 6
<rob^> cya
<jsgotangco> seems like a nice time to hang out here though
<Burgundavia> I live int he wrong timezone
<jsgotangco> yeah you should move in europe
<Burgundavia> need to convince the gf to move as well
<jsgotangco> hmmm i guess froud is getting tired of the docteam thing
<jsgotangco> (for the Nth time)
<Burgundavia> he also threatened to quit a while ago
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, indeed
<jsgotangco> oh he was here a few hours ago?
<Burgundavia> he hasn;t been here for at least 12 hours
<jsgotangco> mdke: you've been busy?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> i'm at the computer less because my gf is here, and I'm spending much of that time on ubuntu-it atm
<rob^> good night all
<Burgundavia> night
<highvoltage> what do you guys think about a wiki page on ubuntu with a list of irc nicks and the realnames next to them?
<mdke> i don't see the need
<mdke> don't people set their realnames in irc?
<mdke> i think most do
<highvoltage> hmmm... perhaps you're right.
<jsgotangco> hi all
<highvoltage> hi jsgotangco.
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-13
<Madpilot> ?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-doc:irc.freenode.net] :  Ubuntu Doc Team - general discussion - backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Projects on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects | This channel tries to follow the tradition of the #gnome-love channel on irc.gimp.net, all new comers and questions are welcomed, as long as you follow the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct first.
<mdke> hey jsgotangco 
<Madpilot> ah, people. having fun riding the splits?
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> so there's a split
<jsgotangco> that's why
<jsgotangco> whats up?
<jsgotangco> mdke: long time no chat
* mdke nods
<Madpilot> server mnt at freenode, actually. the main channel is bizarre
<mdke> hi Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi mdke
<jsgotangco> internet is shitty on my side today
<Madpilot> .ph is the Phillipines, right?
<mdke> for a change :)
<jsgotangco> right
<Madpilot> sorry, just running whois on ppl... 
<jsgotangco> heh im staying more at home lately anyways
<Madpilot> only 198 users over on the main channel - least I've ever seen...
<mdke> jsgotangco, i saw you say you've finished your job
<mdke> got any plans?
<jsgotangco> mdke: i'm living off my savings at the moment looking at employment in a few days though
<mdke> k
<jsgotangco> i can be your stenographer if you want :) i type 72wpm :D
<jsgotangco> hehe
<mdke> you should formalise your role as docteam secretary and talk to mark about a salary
<Madpilot> there isn't anyone @ Canonical whos primary responsibility is docs, right?
<jsgotangco> heh yeah maybe i should do that one time
<mdke> Madpilot, no
<jsgotangco> Madpilot: there is none at the moment, but that should change soon as the project grows
<jsgotangco> Madpilot: hence there is really no concrete direction at the moment
<mdke> jsgotangco, you should do it right now :)
<jsgotangco> i've been helping out tsf though on the cookbook port but i should move it to tsf servers
<jsgotangco> once i started forking it for edubuntu
<jsgotangco> i got an email from froud today turns out he admins those docs from tsf as well heh
<mdke> tsf?
<jsgotangco> shuttleworth foundation
<mdke> hmm
<jsgotangco> im not surprised after all he did learn linux for them
<jsgotangco> they currently have a good project at the moment, the ICDL
<jsgotangco> http://icdl.tsf.org.za/
<jsgotangco> if you look at the contact info its inwords.co.za :)
<mdke> heh
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: what about inwords?
<highvoltage> i'm just on jabber with Sean at the moment.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: nothing really, just telling mdke about stuff hehehe its cool
<highvoltage> ok. cool.
<jsgotangco> what's Sean's jabber ID?
<mdke> highvoltage, you can read the scrollback
<mdke> 10 lines
<highvoltage> seanwhe@jabberafrica.org
<highvoltage> mine is jonathan@jabberafrica.org, fwiw
<jsgotangco> i was thinking of helping out the icdl on the ubuntu part
<jsgotangco> since it already had mandriva and fedora
<highvoltage> cool!
<jsgotangco> ok thanks
<jsgotangco> mdke: are you aware of any docbook tags that resemble a footnote?
<Madpilot> I've been adding to this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicCommands but I'm a near-total noob - I'm just adding the commands I'm finding helpful
<Madpilot> if anyone has suggestions edit away!
<jsgotangco> checking...
<mdke> Madpilot, cool
<jsgotangco> Madpilot: nice one, i suggest simulating a CLI on the samples though
<mdke> jsgotangco, they exist... i dunno what they are tho, I always just copy from existing stuff
<Madpilot> I'm considering a total re-format, and there's a couple of things I need to add as well
<jsgotangco> mdke: yeah im just doing an awful hack at the moment and its not even working for me
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> i should look into that basic docbook wiki entry might be there
<Madpilot> the text switches between "terminal", "prompt" and "command line" at random - I need to rationalize that
<jsgotangco> mdke: did you do this: DocteamDocBookTags
<mdke> no
<mdke> Greg did it
<jsgotangco> ohh
<mdke> i think it might be in the styleguide?
<mdke> maybe not...
<jsgotangco> no its not there was a plan to incorporate some basic docbook tags on the stylguide and i was thinking of adding whats in the wiki entry
<jsgotangco> i remember jeffsch used to have a good wiki entry on docbook
<jsgotangco> it just needs to be re-written in an ubuntu context
<jsgotangco> i'll see you guys later, the father of a very close friend of mine died this morning after a long struggle with lung cancer
<jsgotangco> laters
<Madpilot> later, jsgotangco
<Madpilot> I'm off myself. g'night/morning/whatever, all
<jsgotangco> is the xsl stylesheet for xml in hoary borked?
<mgalvin> g'morning all
<jsgotangco> hey mgalvin
<jsgotangco> man A9.com is awesome
<jsgotangco> AJAX on steroids
<jjesse> that's the amazon search right?
<jsgotangco> yup that's an amazon research
<jsgotangco> i don't like the history stuff though
<jsgotangco> it kept reminding me that I checked out jessica simpson last night
<jsgotangco> but having google, images and wikipedia in one search is really nice
<jsgotangco> good night all
<mdke> night mate
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> mdke!
<jsgotangco> why have you've been silent?
<mdke> i'm at my computer less nowadays
<jsgotangco> i see
<mdke> so i use email more
<mdke> in the last couple of weeks I've been quite busy with ubuntu-it
<jsgotangco> i'm trying to figure out this script i ripped from jeffsch
<jsgotangco> i see
<jsgotangco> bye
<jjesse> slow day today?
<mgalvin> i can see the tumble weeds ;)
<mpt> whoa
<mpt> Try opening an SVG document in yelp
<jjesse> bad news?
<mpt> endless cascade of yelp windows :-)
<Burgundavia> grumble grumble
<Burgundavia> daniels cursed me
<Burgundavia> I haven't had a single issue with X until now
<Burgundavia> and now there is nobody here it bitch at
<jjesse> problems?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> it gets to the where it would boot X and just goes to a non-graphical login
<Burgundavia> no attempt to start X
<Burgundavia> quite ironic, I got borked by the unborking release
<jjesse> that sucks
<mpt> ok, the Gnome User Guide is officially scary
<mpt> Number of words in GUG's "Customizing the Desktop Background": 517. Number of words in Ubuntu Help's "Changing the desktop background": 117.
<jjesse> wow that is a ton
<mpt> I guess at some point the GUG was written by people who were paid by the word ...
<jjesse> what would be the reason for that many words?
<mpt> well, there's a *lot* of repetition
<mpt> not of sentences, but of phrases
<mpt> For example, three sentences matching the pattern "Choose * from the Background Style drop-down list*"
<mpt> and just basic floweriness, like "Alternatively, you can select" instead of "Or choose"
<mpt> I don't go for fewest words, though, I go for fewest syllables :-)
<jjesse> go for best word
<mpt> fewest syllables usually leads to best word
<mpt> because a smaller word is much more likely to be common
<mpt> easier to read, etc
<mpt> The GUG also has a habit of doing a depth-first traversal of the interface, which leads to it explaining the bleeding obvious while not offering help on likely problems
<mpt> example of the bleeding obvious: "The Pick a Color dialog is displayed. Choose a color, then click OK."
<mpt> example of not offering help on likely problems: It doesn't even tell you how to find the Desktop Background preferences in the first place.
<Burgundavia> ouch
<Burgundavia> mpt, you follow desktop-devel?
<mpt> yes
<Burgundavia> thoughts on thread about device icon action?
<Burgundavia> I notice that OS X does the same thing as nautilus (show the file manager)
<mpt> My personal opinion is that Nautilus should have a "View" > "as Album" mode that gives you a Play button for music files, pictures, and movies
<mpt> (along with other buttons relevant to the filetype)
<Burgundavia> ya
<mpt> but I guess that's some distance from current reality and developer direction :-)
<Burgundavia> I personally think the default double click should be to play the dvd/cd
<Burgundavia> that is most likely what the person wants to do
<mpt> In other words, I agree with those who want double-clicking on it to open the device window, *and* those who want double-clicking on it to open an interface for playing the media :-)
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> going to play with by breezy system again, try and fix it
* Burgundavia feels stupid now
<Burgundavia> I accidentally removed gdm from my system
<Madpilot> that was brilliant
<Madpilot> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> salut mon frere
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, are you not at work?
<Burgundavia> I have some very nice classical music. I should listen to it more often
<Madpilot> I don't work Mondays - my week is Tues-Sat for now
<Burgundavia> random app --> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=995
* mpt wants xplanet built in to the Desktop Background prefs
<Burgundavia> that would be cool
<Madpilot> xplanet is the "live" Earth-from-orbit simulator, right?
<mpt> no, that's xearth :-)
<mpt> xplanet is Earth + other planets + Sun + Moon
<Madpilot> very cool. they're both in Hoary's repos, I see. any tricks to setting them up?
* mpt shrugs
<mpt> The last time I used either of them was xearth in 1998
<mpt> though I did design the prefs for the non-Free (shame! shame!) OSXplanet
<Madpilot> perhaps I'll mess with them later this week - and then write a wiki page about it!
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-14
<jsgotangco> hey all
<jsgotangco> grr i dont get it is hoary's xslt borked?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, http://linuxguy.biz/screenshots.html
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you want me to start work on the quickguide?
<jsgotangco> sure please do this cookbook is getting hairy
<Burgundavia> ok
<jsgotangco> i'll just dive in when there's content already
<Burgundavia> I sensed that
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> that's a very nice page
<Burgundavia> indeed
<jsgotangco> but it didnt use the default background
<Burgundavia> not much is default
<Burgundavia> that is a sales page for someone
<Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=292909#post292909
<Burgundavia> last post ont hat page
<jsgotangco> i sensed that
<jsgotangco> i lookedat the frontpage
<Burgundavia> I am going to steal his ideas
<Burgundavia> I am thinking for the quick guide, one big sectin
<Burgundavia> no sidebar
<Burgundavia> I like the idea of staggered screeshots like that
<jsgotangco> hmmm but you can't do that in docbook, you have to transform it to html to align it like that no?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Madpilot> staggered screenies make the eye move back and forth, which is a good thing </amatuer design geek>
<Madpilot> can't the Ubuntu wiki take CSS code like the Wikipedia engine can?
<jsgotangco> i dont think moin was designed for that  at all
<jsgotangco> (presentation-centric wiki)
<jsgotangco> you can make some nasty workarounds though
<Madpilot> too bad. the 'pedia wiki software can accept most CSS styles, without nasty workarounds
<Burgundavia> moin can take some stuff
<Burgundavia> see UserDocumenation
<Burgundavia> the toc stuff
<Burgundavia> what about dividing the quick guide into 2 sections
<Burgundavia> 1st section is why ubuntu is great
<Burgundavia> 2 or 3 items
<Burgundavia> 2nd section is new stuff in breezy
<Burgundavia> 5-10 iteams
<Madpilot> Looking at the stuff on UserDocumentation, it looks like moin can accept enough CSS to do the alternating pictures that Burgundavia wants
<Madpilot> just alternate float:right & float:left all the way down
<Burgundavia> because I really like the 4 things on that guys page
<Burgundavia> interface, office, software updates
<Burgundavia> problem with the Quick Tour is that some of the cool stuff like gnome-power,beagle and network-manager might not make the cut
<Madpilot> it's a Quick Tour - you're only going to cover the basics, not every cool thing
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> well gnome-power and n-m are really one thing: better laptop support
<Burgundavia> so is the ndisgtk stuff
<Madpilot> and you're only going to want to cover the stuff that, a) ppl do 95% of the time, and b) basic security (ie updating)
<Madpilot> so stick an bit on the end about "Ubuntu on your Laptop" for the power & network things?
<Burgundavia> I am going to write a bunch of stuff
<Burgundavia> then cut it ruthlessly
<Burgundavia> and polish up the rest
<jsgotangco> good idea just dump and clean
<Madpilot> if you're going to copy that commercial page, copy the whole format: screenshot, 20ish words; next screenshot.
<Madpilot> no paragraphs, no dissertations!
<Madpilot> it's a pamphlet, not a booklet
<jsgotangco> hmm that's great docbook doesn't even want a ulink aything with &
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> that was my plan
<Madpilot> for longer help guides, I like the way linuxcommand.org is laid out - TOC, and then medium-length bits - about 2-3 screens worth - with a "Next" link at the bottom
<Burgundavia> that is very nice
<Burgundavia> makes reading eas
<Burgundavia> y
<Madpilot> it's digestible and navigible - "do this, then move on to the next bit" - and if you need a quick ref after, it's all accessible
<Madpilot> I've been thinking about something similar for the U wiki
<Madpilot> because most of the questions on #ubuntu are "repos, Synaptic, mp3/restricted, Java", more or less
<Burgundavia> was thinking about the media stuff today
<Madpilot> ?
<Burgundavia> my thought was to create two new pages
<Burgundavia> PlayingMusic and PlayingMovies
<Burgundavia> and then making the various formats subpages of them
<Burgundavia> leave restrictedformats in place, just link to the new structure
<Burgundavia> so for .avi, it would by PlayingMovies/Avi
<Madpilot> why? none of that stuff is very long, it all fits nicely on one page
<Burgundavia> search
<Madpilot> and most ppl want the whole set of codecs, not just one or two
<Burgundavia> currnet default search is by title
<Madpilot> right, and search "avi" returns nothing about video formats
<Burgundavia> yes
<Madpilot> "mp3' returns nothing at all...
<Madpilot> you've got a point - but do it backwards
<Madpilot> create all those named pages - then redirect them to RestrictedFormats
<Burgundavia> sure
<Burgundavia> by restricted means nothing and is quite long
<Burgundavia> PlayingMusic does
<Madpilot> remember the *rest* of our resources. restricted is all over ubotu's database, for starters
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> that is why you make Restricted a two link page
<Burgundavia> and fix ubotu
<Madpilot> "good URLs don't change" - leave Restricted, with all it's contents. create the new pages for the search engine. don't have to mess with ubotu then either
<Burgundavia> good urls do not hcange, that is what redirects are for
<Madpilot> the new URLs - /mp3 and the rest - are hacks for moinmoin's search engine, that's all
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> but PlayingMusic and PlayingMovies is not
<Madpilot> remember what I said about most people wanting *all* the codecs, not just one or two
<Burgundavia> would you rather tell Andrea to go to PlayingMovies or to RestrictedFormats?
<jsgotangco> brb
<Burgundavia> the wiki is still very much in its formation period
<Burgundavia> now is the time to make these changes
<Madpilot> good point... so hack it up this way: leave Restricted in place, with no content but two links to Movies & Music
<Burgundavia> and one to Java
<Burgundavia> that is what I just proposed
<Madpilot> then create the rest of the pages /mp3 and all - and redirect them to the appropriate Movies or Music page
<Burgundavia> sure
<Madpilot> and don't bother ubotu, unless you really want to
<Burgundavia> and then fix ubotus link
<Burgundavia> why not?
<Madpilot> remember what I said about most people wanting *all* the codecs, not just one or two
<Burgundavia> yes
<Madpilot> and I know i just said that, but it bears repeating
<Burgundavia> lets hash out the content on the new pages and then do the switch
<Burgundavia> the sooner we get good content in place, the less likely we are going to have to deal with crap
<Madpilot> true
<Madpilot> redirect on moin is "## <name of target page>", right?
<Burgundavia> #REDIRECT PageToBeRedirectedTo
<Burgundavia> ## is a comment
<Madpilot> thanks
<Burgundavia> same as wp markup
<Madpilot> you creating PlayingMusic & PlayingMovies, then?
<Burgundavia> no
<Madpilot> ?
<Burgundavia> going to bed, like I wanted to 2 hours ago
<Burgundavia> but couldn't
<Madpilot> couldn't? the computer grabbed you and wouldnt let go?
<Burgundavia> no, couldn't sleep
<Madpilot> ah. yeah, I'm going to crash too. been a long day. g'night
<Burgundavia> night
<mgalvin> hi all
<jjesse> hello mgalvin
<zAo^> how can I play a DVD-ISO?
<mgalvin> zAo^: did you try asking on #ubuntu? they should be able to help you there with stuff like that
<zAo^> sorry; wront chan :-)
<mgalvin> np :)
<jjesse> another slow day in the doc channel :)
<Mez> WANTED: very brave user with Ubuntu hoary who doesnt mind reinstalling
<Kinnison> What for?
<Mez> testing a package
<Mez> #ubuntu-testing
<Kinnison> Perhaps not
* Kinnison gets on with his launchpad work
<mpt> jjesse: You using Breezy?
<jjesse> nope
<jjesse> kubuntu on hoary
<jjesse> sorry was afk mpt
<mpt> So if it's a slow day, are you busy writing docs? :-)
<jjesse> grin in between solving all the problems at work yes i'm working on the kuesrguide
<jjesse> is there a cd build for kubuntu and breezy?
* mpt shrugs
<mpt> I'm just unable to write about Breezy-specific stuff before I install it, and unwilling to install it because I need to be doing work on this machine
<jjesse> i have that same problem, i do have a test box, but its at home where i am !broadband so looking for a cd install of kubuntu breezy
<mdke> mpt, new partition?
<mpt> that's a possibility
<jjesse> dual boot hoary and breezy?
<mpt> this machine is badly partitioned as it is
<mdke> jjesse, you could always do a breezy server install and then do a apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
<mdke> or does !broadband mean no broadband?
<jjesse> no broadband
<jjesse> i have dial up at home
<mdke> ah gotcha
<mdke> better ask in #kubuntu-devel if they have colony cd's out
<jjesse> ok
<mdke> they have daily builds
<mdke> no idea if they work tho
<jjesse> asking right now
<mdke> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/
<jjesse> just download one of the isos and then i can install it
<judax> hehe, how come I didn't get kicked and all of you did?
<mpt> coz you're speshul
<judax> I guess
<jjesse> grin no clue
* Burgundavia grumbles very loudly about shitty moinmoin markup
<Burgundavia> I cannot seem to do nested tables
<Burgundavia> no bloody div support either
<sladen> ...at least it's not as bad as ReStRuCtUrEdToRtUrE
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> I am trying to emulate this layout: http://linuxguy.biz/screenshots.html
<Burgundavia> not that hard in mediaiwiki
<Burgundavia> simply float the image left
<Burgundavia> but moin needs to wrap the image in a table to float left|right
<Burgundavia> and cannot accept nested tables
<Burgundavia> ok, really ugly first draft up 
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuickTourDraft?action=show
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-07
<nixternal> hey Fujitsu, btw have you check out http://chi.ubuntu-us.org ?  that was done thanks to you and the theme btw!  i appreciate that big time
* Fujitsu checks it out.
<Fujitsu> No problem!
<Fujitsu> Wow, it looks nice.
<nixternal> thanks..i went through and hacked in some stuff similar to what is on the ubuntu.com front page
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<nixternal> more drupal hacking to be done when i get a chance to do so
<nixternal> i want to remove the "post to front page" feature as well
<nixternal> my guys post to their blog and keep posting it on the front page
<Fujitsu> Aha... I think you can remove that privilege, but I'm not sure.
<nixternal> ya, somewhere im sure..oh well..back to Release notes
<Fujitsu> Yep :P
<nixternal> Burgundavia: i am hitting up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Kubuntu/Edgy/Knot2 right now
<nixternal> fixing snapshots now and getting ready to get that completed and ready for a proofing
<Burgundavia> nixternal: I saw that. I will steal as needed
<Burgundavia> nixternal: lets regularize the urls of the ubuntu/kubuntu knot pages
<nixternal> most definitely..i went along with the /Testing/Kubuntu/Edgy way from mgalvin i believe
<nixternal> what would you like them to be?
<nixternal> i will move and redirect as needed right now
<Burgundavia> my internet is giving me issues today, give me a sec
<nixternal> no prob
<nixternal> right now you have EdgyKnot2 for yours
<nixternal> how about...
<nixternal> hmmm
<nixternal>  /Edgy/Knot2/Kubuntu  for my release
<nixternal> or, I just get rid of the Testing on my current release and do /Kubuntu/Edgy/Knot2
<Burgundavia> what about EdgyEft/Knot2/Kubuntu
<nixternal> cool
<Burgundavia> that puts it as a clear subpage of EdgyEft
<Fujitsu> That's a good idea.
<Burgundavia> nixternal: feel free to move my page to EdgyEft/Knot2
<nixternal> will do
<nixternal> yours is /EdgyEft/Knot2/Ubuntu correct
<Burgundavia> nixternal: just remember to leave redirects behind. My internet is too unreliable today to deal with anything like moving wiki pages
<nixternal> no problem
<Burgundavia> I would just leave it at /Knot2
<nixternal> ok
<Fujitsu> What package should bugs in the documentation be filed in?
<Burgundavia> ubuntu-doc
<Fujitsu> I thought so. Thanks.
<nixternal> i love how fast the wiki is
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: please do your documentation development on the help wiki, not the ubuntu one
<nixternal> Burgundavia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot2  <- that is all you   and of course for Kubuntu -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot2
<Burgundavia> nixternal: yep, but kill the knot1 stuff
<nixternal> knot1
<Burgundavia> knot1 has passed, no need to create anything for it
<nixternal> i did knot1 b4 the knot1 release
<nixternal> i just moved it to stay the same...
<Burgundavia> ah, ok
<Burgundavia> nixternal: you also need to arrange the moving of the page to kubuntu.org
<Burgundavia> it cannot stay on the wiki
<nixternal> hmmm
<nixternal> i will get with imbrandon later on tonight about that i guess
<Burgundavia> ok, we don't have to worry about it until nearer to knot2
<nixternal> roger that
<nixternal> hiya jsgotangco!
<LaserJock> hi nixternal
<nixternal> hiya LaserJock
<jsgotangco> nixternal: hey dude ho's it going how's the vacation
<Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, sorry, i didnt want to clutter the wiki with half finished pages
<nixternal> hmmm...was hoping Madpilot would be around to do a XChat run over for the Classroom tonight
<jsgotangco> classroom?
<nixternal> jsgotangco: vacation is over ;( it was good though, had a blast with my daughter...now im back to work with docs, release notes, and your stuff ;)
<nixternal> #ubuntu-classroom
<nixternal> New User Network
<jsgotangco> wow there is such a thing
<nixternal> we are doing an Introduction to IRC tonight, for the 2nd night actually
<jsgotangco> i guess i can't ask there about kernel dumps?
<nixternal> yesterday we had up to 90 people in the class
<nixternal> haha not yet..these are for the new guys ;)
<jsgotangco> that's cool though
<nixternal> im doing Konversation again..i did a 1 hour lecture on the basics yesterday
<nixternal> im shooting for 30 minutes tonight
<jsgotangco> it seems the new kernel update for dapper borked my setup
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: no worries, better to have a half finished page on the help wiki than not at all
<jsgotangco> i havent really looked into it is probably the restricted modules
<nixternal> same here jsgotangco
<nixternal> i had major issues last night
<crimsun> what happened?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, ok, i'll move them over when i get home tonight
<nixternal> or 2 nights ago
<jsgotangco> are you using nvidia-glx?
<LaserJock> nixternal: it really takes that long to go over konversation?
<nixternal> but i think it borked up hardware stuff, as just by moving my memory sticks around, i got it to work fine
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: while you are doing it, could you move anything else that should be moved?
<nixternal> it did last night LaserJock, i went into everything with it
<Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, sure. (when i get home is in 12 hours though)
<jsgotangco> crimsun: in mine, gdm loads, but after logging it just hangs
<jsgotangco> ill probably take a look again later
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: no worries on the timing
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok
<jsgotangco> nixternal: where do slackers sit? wth is the channel moderated
<jsgotangco> ehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> bye all, off to tafe :0, back in 12 hours, ish
* jsgotangco shows nixternal the finger
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> hahahaha
<nixternal> it is moderated, then people are voiced for questions during the thing
<jsgotangco> nixternal: boooo
* LaserJock throws a wade of paper at jsgotangco 
<LaserJock> s/wade/wad/
<LaserJock> ?
* jsgotangco starts making funny faces in front of nixternal
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: nixternal is holding a class heh
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> i need a soda b4 this all starts
<LaserJock> nixternal: is UWN #8 out the door
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> thanks to Riddell and Burgundavia!!!
<jsgotangco> yay
<nixternal> and of course crimsun for his mad professor skills and proofing
<jsgotangco> so you had it out nice
* jsgotangco will be out for a few weeks
<nixternal> argh
<nixternal> ummm... jsgotangco, what about that email?  will you still be open for me sending you emails and what not concerning it?
<jsgotangco> sure
<nixternal> cool
<nixternal> soda time, then i get to teach ;)
<jsgotangco> i just wont be online often, folks are coming over for a 2 week vacation
<nixternal> anyone interested in doing a X-Chat Lecture?
<nixternal> ahh, i should have hopped on the plane with them
<nixternal> i just got into o'hare on friday
<LaserJock> anybody know if there is a place that would have an Ubuntu Impress template?
<jsgotangco> i just grab old ones from mako before
<LaserJock> I'd like one that has Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Edubuntu 
<LaserJock> I had something in mind, maybe I'll just make it myself and see if it doesn't turn out like crap
<jsgotangco> i made a simple one for edubunt that looks like the website
<LaserJock> mmy artistic skills are pretty bad
<jsgotangco> fortunately, OOo has the Ubuntu colors
<LaserJock> ohhh, cool
<jsgotangco> yep
<jsgotangco> i was pleased to see it explicity indicated
<bimberi> LaserJock: /usr/share/example-content has a couple of odp files
<LaserJock> yeah, i see those
<LaserJock> I'd like to make something that has all of *buntu
<jsgotangco> maka a frankenstein out of all the logos, then have the mouse in the middle
<jsgotangco> heh
<mpt__> One Buntubuntu to rule them all
<Fujitsu> One buntubuntu to find them. One buntubuntu to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. Yes, we get it.
<Fujitsu> *bring them all
<mpt__> Who were you saying "Yes we get it" at, yourself? :-)
<Fujitsu> Yep :P
* mpt__ nags mdke to review his patch
* Fujitsu nags the CC to announce a time for the meeting.
<bimberi> Fujitsu: a CC meeting is overdue, but is one iminent?
<Fujitsu> bimberi, they're meant to be every two weeks, on a Tuesday.
<Fujitsu> And they seem to only announce times just hours before.
<bimberi> hmm
<Fujitsu> And there hasn't been a meeting in 4 weeks.
<bimberi> Fujitsu: are they announced anywhere other than the CC Agenda WikiPage?
<Fujitsu> bimberi, not generally.
<bimberi> Fujitsu: kk, thanks, wasn't sure if i was missing something :)
<LaserJock> they should be on the fridge
<jsgotangco> things have been pretty busy because of the point release
<bimberi> hmm
* bimberi hopes the Community Manager will crack the whip ;)
<crimsun> who's the CM? :-)
<LaserJock> is that position filled?
<bimberi> idk, the position is no longer on the employment page though
<crimsun> I know a couple people who applied for it, but that's all I know.
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: something sorta like this: http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/impress.png
<LaserJock> crimsun: outside people?
<crimsun> LaserJock: yes
<jsgotangco> horay for LaserJock artwork
* jsgotangco hides
<bimberi> hehe
<LaserJock> crimsun: cool
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: well, it's not much :/
<jsgotangco> i was kidding
<bimberi> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations
<LaserJock> bimberi: ah cool, I didn't think of the right search phrase ;-)
<nixternal> thank god that is over with
<nixternal> [20:20]  <jsgotangco> maka a frankenstein out of all the logos, then have the mouse in the middle
<nixternal> hahahha
<nixternal> i thought setting the logos up like the olympic rings with the world in the middle would be cool
<nixternal> don't know how the IOC would take that though
<jsgotangco> they are very feisty with their trademarks
<nixternal> crimsun: you are my hero!
<LaserJock> nixternal: he's many people's hero :-)
<nixternal> heh, i just read over logs of his patience in #kubuntu earlier today with the rr guy that is annoying me in #ubuntu-chicago ;)
<nixternal> he is from Chicago, but recently has been bringing bad karma around
<jsgotangco> start the purge!
* jsgotangco hides
<nixternal> hehe
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: I would be careful with mangling our logos like that
<Burgundavia> regardless of the trademark policy, it is bad marketing
<mdke> mpt_: will try and look today
<Burgundavia> hey mdke
<jsgotangco> sure its just for fun though
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: but start bandying around stuff like that it starts becoming used really fast
<Fujitsu> Very very fast.
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mdke> hi Burgundavia 
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot2/Kubuntu   <= that is where it is at now Burgundavia ;)
<Burgundavia> nixternal: sounds good
<nixternal> it is pretty much complete..there are just a few finishing touches....and then we will be putting it up on k.o im assuming
<Laser_away> Burgundavia: are you going to give a talk at Ubucon?
<Burgundavia> Laser_away: likely I will dragooned into one
<jsgotangco> Ubucon sounds very exciting!
<Laser_away> I'm up for "contributing to Ubuntu" and possibly "Intro to Launchpad, et al." (Yikes)
<Burgundavia> I will give "Back in the bad old days"
<Laser_away> hehe
<crimsun> loading that wiki page is slow death on this 33.6
<Burgundavia> "Sodomy, chocolate sprinkles, and Launchpad in Mataro"
<Fujitsu> ...
<jsgotangco> dont forget to mention the gastro sprint of death
<nixternal> [02:02]  <crimsun> loading that wiki page is slow death on this 33.6
<nixternal> i hope that was a joke ;)
<crimsun> no, it really wasn't.
<johnlittle> Yeah, he's not talking about sprinkles
<nixternal> heh, i will put a "Not for anything slower then 768k" warning on the top of the page ;)
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> why is kubuntu in lavander?
<nixternal> that is the "New" look jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> it reminds me of downy
<jsgotangco> :D
<nixternal> lol
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, you want to politely reject the latest WikiTeam hopeful, or should I do it tomorrow?
<Burgundavia> I will let you do it
<Burgundavia> I need to clear up my email backlog (currently at 600ish)
<Madpilot> thanks - I think... 
<nixternal> haha
<Madpilot> I need to review the WikiTeam page - I don't think it's clear that we expect people to *first* do some good basic editing, *then* apply for the (theoretically) expanded privs that WikiTeam membership brings
<nixternal> that could help i guess
<Burgundavia> yep, sounds good
<mdke> Madpilot: I think he is interested in the new forumwiki team
<Madpilot> ah
<mdke> and has applied to that, the wiki team and the docteam all together
<Madpilot> we're going to have a bit of confusing between the two, aren't we?
<mdke> well, I don't know
<Burgundavia> forumwiki team?
<Madpilot> the WikiTeam applicant in question is 'panickedthumb'
<Burgundavia> he is a long term forum user
<mdke> yes, he applied to all 3
<mdke> I'll deal with it if you like
<Burgundavia> right, anyway, I need to sleep
<mdke> mpt: around? just looking at your patch
<mdke> mpt: ok, replied on list. Thanks
<lloydinho_> sorry, did somebody ask for me?
<mdke> lloydinho: didn't see anything
<mdke> whoops
<lloydinho> ?
<mdke> whoops: I was worried I might have crashed your irc client by highlighting you, remembering the other day
<lloydinho> no, my computer starts up x-chat-gnome automatically, but this ordinary x-chat which doesn't have that problem..
<lloydinho> .. which is odd, I guess.
<mdke> yeah
<Kamping_Kaiser> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MovingWikiPages doesnt explain how to move from wiki.u.c to help.u.c
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: there is no magic in it. Just copy the contents into the place you want the page to be. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> so edit -> copy -> paste? i can do that :)
* Kamping_Kaiser thought there might be a way which saved revision info
<mdke> nope
<mdke> well, you can copy the folder across if you have access to the server, I suppose
<mdke> but you don't :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> fraid not :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok, moved my 5 docs out of my wiki home into help.u.c, hopefully properly
<mdke> not bad
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: however you haven't followed the number one rule of AvoidingASlapByMdke
* mdke slaps Kamping_Kaiser 
* Kamping_Kaiser winces
<Kamping_Kaiser> used howto in titles?
<mdke> correct!
<Kamping_Kaiser> :S
* Kamping_Kaiser slaps self
<mdke> see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/PageCreation
<mdke> nice work on those tho
<Kamping_Kaiser> thanks. suppose i should move them again now :)
<mdke> I'll rename em
<Kamping_Kaiser> thanks
<mdke> was there nothing on debmirror already?
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke, not at the time i made it
<Kamping_Kaiser> (back before the help was moved to the new site even)
<mdke> ok, maybe have a quick check that there is nothing to integrate.
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: quick feedback on those pages, they would benefit a lot with an introduction stating what the application does and why someone might want to use it
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke, oh, i didnt think of that. I'll try and remember to fix tehm tomorrow/soon. i write them somehow asuming someones found the tools, knows what to use them for, but doesnt know how to use them.
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: yeah I know what you mean, but I think it would add to them. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> of course. i just didnt think. i'll add them when i have time
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: awesome, nice job
<Kamping_Kaiser> np.
<nixternal> talk about a busy morning ;)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> good thing im about to sleep
<jjesse> morning nixternal
<nixternal> ya, i just woke up from that ;)
<nixternal> mornin' jjesse
<nixternal> or afternoon to you now, since it is 12pm in the rapids
<jjesse> yeah just turned :)
<jjesse> nixternal: in the weekly newsletter there needs to be a carriage return or something to seperate Willow-ng from Migration Assistant
<jjesse> otherwise it looks like only one SoC project is listed
<nixternal> I noticed in the KDE Help Center, the "Contact Information" is all about KDE, and there are no links to Kubuntu or Ubuntu contacts, for instance the various mailing lists like they have done with the KDE stuff, any reason?  should this be created maybe for Edgy?
<nixternal> ok jjesse, i can fix that quickly i guess ;)
<nixternal> fixed...it is weird that the wiki has not been recognizing carriage returns...now there is a double space, which works
<jsgotangco> nixternal: can an ipod video be flashable to linux?
<nixternal> what do you mean by flashable?
<nixternal> turned into flash? that i hope not ;)
<nixternal> copied over to linux and played?
<jsgotangco> change the firmware
<nixternal> oh..hehe not that i am aware of
<nixternal> it has to be done in windows, unless you are using 3rd party os for it
<nixternal> which rockbox doesn't do video
<jsgotangco> my wife will kill me if i attempt to mess at her ipod
<nixternal> and the ipod linux isn't up to par as of yet either
<jsgotangco> i should probably just get an old one
<nixternal> maybe you could flash it via wine?
<jsgotangco> i have a ton of ogg files here
<nixternal> oh, jsgotangco, actually yes you can "flash" it
<nixternal> but what you do, is back it up, it is a lot of work
<nixternal> i believe the rockbox website actually shows you how to do it
<jsgotangco> or maybe i'll just look for an i-river with ogg support
<nixternal> well, with i-river i would recommend the rockbox os for it
<nixternal> it can play anything
<jsgotangco> whats the url of that rockbox thing?
<jsgotangco> wait found it
* mdke points at google, and at #ubuntu-offtopic
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> google
<jsgotangco> mdke: you're no fun all the time
<mdke> jsgotangco: yeah, I know, I'm grumpy
<mdke> but it's only because reading the channel logs looking to see what I have missed makes me grumpy
<mdke> :)
<jsgotangco> nixternal: this looks really painful
<nixternal> hehe, it is and it isn't
<nixternal> jjesse: with the Kubuntu Dapper release notes, I am fixing a couple of things in it, and there is a part for "Zeroconf". isn't that kind of false to have that. I mean it is in Kubuntu, it just doesn't work the way it was meant to be in Dapper i thought
<nixternal> jjesse: are you currently working on Kubuntu release notes for Edgy?  and if so, feel free to give me a page or 2 to work on to lend you a hand
<nixternal> i have been doing the current release pages for k.o so i kinda have an idea of what is in it and what isn't
<jjesse> nixternal: ping
<nixternal> hellooooo
<nixternal> i have way to many winders open right now
<jjesse> grin :)
<nixternal> i have stuff flashin' and beepin' at me
<nixternal> got lost there
<jjesse> umm i haven't really started an upload for edgy release notes
<nixternal> ok
<jjesse> but was planning on copying what you have in testing/Knot1 or whatever
<nixternal> you are going to follow the previous i am sure..just update it with Edgy notes
<nixternal> well that has all changed
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot1/Kubuntu    and     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot1/Kubuntu
<nixternal> those will eventually make it to the kubuntu.org site..im working with imbrandon on that right now
<jjesse> ok thats fine, just make sure they get uploaded to docbook as well :)
<nixternal> you want each release docbook?
<nixternal> knot 1, knot 2, and so on?
<jjesse> no just final :)
<nixternal> oh...no problem
<jjesse> umm check w/ Riddell to see if they are uploading kubuntu-docs into edgy yet?
<nixternal> however, we don't need the images for the release notes that go into the KDE Help Center correct?
<jjesse> correct
<nixternal> i know they are either getting ready to, or have done it...i have seen doc commits to edgy, just can't remember if they were DE specific
<nixternal> Riddell: pingerz?
<jjesse> well i don't know if they built any packages
<nixternal> i don't know why i just did that, because i am sure he will see your highlight ;)
<jjesse> i don't think anyone's built a kubuntu-docs package yet, i think that happens at the end of things?
<nixternal> ya im sure it does..since there are a lot of changes ahead
<LaserJock> I thought there was 1 upload for Edgy already
<jjesse> there may have been, which is why i would like to have some release notes uploaded into docbook :)
<nixternal> there was LaserJock, but i think it was pretty much Ubuntu specific and generic maybe...ok, im going to read commits b4 i go retarded here
<LaserJock> no
<nixternal> Accepted:
<nixternal> OK: ubuntu-docs_6.08.1.dsc
<nixternal>   -> Component: main Section: text
<nixternal> OK: ubuntu-docs_6.08.1.tar.gz
<LaserJock> there was an ubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> but I thought also a kubuntu-docs
<nixternal> im lookin' now
<LaserJock> I thought it was earlier than the ubuntu-docs but I could be wrong
<nixternal> nope, no kubuntu docs
<LaserJock> you can always check LP
<nixternal> i have a nice breakdown of commits in kmail ;)
<LaserJock> looks like it's just dapper's
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> no edgy ones yet
<LaserJock> maybe it was just -updates that I saw
<nixternal> i did see recent update commits on the doc-commit list
<nixternal> jjesse: i submitted a patch for kubuntu release notes on the ML a little while ago
<nixternal> it is pretty legit, as it fixes a couple minor spelling issues
<nixternal> don't know if there is a .1 freeze yet
<jjesse> yeah i still don't have my key figured out due to computer issues
<nixternal> ahhh
<jjesse> i don't think there is, but let Riddell know so he can recreate the package
<nixternal> ya, plus i want to ask if he is interested in a "Contact Information" page for Kubuntu, like KDE has done and listed in the Help Center
<jjesse> that sounds cool
<nixternal> i could whip something up quick and show it to him to see what he thinks
<jjesse> is there an "edgy" version of debian?
<LaserJock> a what?
<jjesse> what is the cutting edge/unstable verrsion of debian called?
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> sid
<jjesse> just unstable?
<LaserJock> unstable or sid
<nixternal> i almost said edgy eft ;)
<nixternal> heh, or Dapper in some cases ;)
<trappist> well there's unstable, but then there's testing.  and then there's experimental.
<jjesse> does anyone remember if I changed all references to amaroK and made them Amarok in kubuntu gnotes?
<jjesse> notes
<jjesse> nixternal: were you ever officially approved by mako ?
<mdke> gooood evening
<mdke> so what do people think about getting rid of the licences for those individual docs that still have them?
<jjesse> the dual license?  sorry haven't been following the discussion much on the list
<jjesse> so i don't have much of an opinion
<mdke> not that
<jjesse> oh did i miss another email?
<mdke> I was thinking that having the whole licenses in an appendix to each doc is pretty cumbersome and ugly
<jjesse> yeah it is
<mdke> maybe we could just link to them in the articleinfo/bookinfo
<mdke> we already do that for some of the articles, but the books have them in their entirety, the reader doesn't really care, let's be honest ;)
<jjesse> i bet the reader doesn't even open them :)
<mdke> right, they get in the way
<jjesse> next week i'm traveling, so when i'm in the hotel and bored at night i'l l be able to really work on documents :)
<mdke> cool
<mdke> I've added those two licenses questions to the agenda for the next meeting, whenever it is. The more comments on the mailing list the better
* mdke disappears
<LaserJock> mdke: can GFDL be done that way?
<LaserJock> doh, I'm a little late
<nixternal> heh, jjesse disappears right b4 i can give him an answer
<mdke> LaserJock: I'm undecided, see what you think and mail the list?
<mdke> it's done like that for About Ubuntu, About Kubuntu and so on tho, whether it is possible or not ;)
<nixternal> hiya Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi
<LaserJock> are  either of you guys ops in #ubuntu?
<Madpilot> I am, yeah
<Madpilot> problems?
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-08
<LaserJock> Madpilot: a guy named HarrySprocket is on -devel asking to be unbanned
<Madpilot> get him to PM me
<LaserJock> k
<Madpilot> did he say why he was banned in the first place, and who banned him?
<LaserJock> no, and perhaps he doesn't even know
<Madpilot> he should have some idea of why he earned the ban, but anyway... get him to PM me
<LaserJock> well, he didn't say
<LaserJock> anyway I told him to pm you
<Madpilot> ok
<LaserJock> is there a channel people can go to for that?
<Madpilot> there's #ubuntu-ops
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> I wondered
<LaserJock> it comes up know and then
<Madpilot> yeah - you can always send people there, too
<nixternal> quick question...on the doc svn, the global.ent file has "Edgy" for versions right...so now if i create a docbook file, and use the global.ent, it will say "Edgy" for version and not "Dapper".
<nixternal> now
<nixternal> say i am making a change that is in Dapper documentation, does that matter?
<Madpilot> LaserJock, no PM yet - is the guy registered & identified?
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> should I just tell him to go to -ops?
<Madpilot> ah - he need to ident
<Madpilot> sure
<dsas> nixternal: Yes, if you're working on dapper docs then you want to checkout the dapper branch.
<nixternal> ok, that is what i thought, just wanted to make sure ;)
<nixternal> ok, so trunk == edgy right now...and to grab the dapper repos, i would 'svn checkout https://docteam....../repos/dapper blah
<nixternal> i was close, branches/dapper
<Madpilot> LaserJock, does this guy really want to be unbanned? He hasn't managed to join #ubuntu-ops either...
<LaserJock> well, he managed to become a Mark imposter
<LaserJock> joined as "Mark Shuttleworth" and then sabdfl shows up :-)
<Madpilot> ... that might be why he got banned from #ubuntu in the first place...
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> that is kind of funny...sabdfl even got a slight kick out of it, it seems
<nixternal> i liked his reaction
<Madpilot> anyway, if he doesn't ident for PM or doesn't join #ubuntu-ops, there's not a lot can be done for him...
<Madpilot> What did sabdfl say?
<LaserJock> "<sabdfl> *cough choke splutter*"
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Madpilot> heh
<nixternal> [17:20]  *** MarkShuttleWorth is now known as HarrySprocket.
<nixternal> [17:20]  <sabdfl> *cough choke splutter*
<nixternal> [17:20]  <HarrySprocket> Does Mark Chat in here sometimes?
<nixternal> [17:20]  <crimsun> he's right there.
<nixternal> [17:20]  <sabdfl> imposter
<nixternal> hehe ya
<nixternal> sorry about that one btw
<nixternal> i grabbed more then i thought
<crimsun> it's pretty obvious if you follow hostmasks.
<crimsun> I don't even bother with nicks; I use hostmasks.
<crimsun> I guess that dates me. (Sigh, too many years spent on undernet, efnet, and the like with channel takeovers)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i did my undernet and efnet time, and spent most of mine though at etg
<dsas> hmm, it appears that the various gnome guides don't have any licensing information viewable in yelp at all.
<nixternal_> do the release notes need to be updated for the Dapper .1 release?
<nixternal_> for instance, I believe that the .1 release will contain KDE 3.5.3 in it now, and no longer contain 3.5.2
<crimsun> sure, why not?
<nixternal> there hasn't been a "freeze" has there to get documentation and what not into the .1 release?
<LaserJock> dsas: are you sure
<dsas> LaserJock: I can't see any in the desktop guide or sys admin guide, I haven't checked the others.
<dsas> LaserJock: The web page has it as the front page, and the dapper source package has a legal.xml file though.
<dsas> odd.
<LaserJock> dsas: did you look in "about this document" in the yelp menu?
<dsas> LaserJock: Ahh, slight misunderstanding. I'm talking about the upstream gnome docs, rather than the ubuntu guides.
<LaserJock> oh
<nixternal> oh well, so much for dapper .1 release, but we can get doc updates
<nixternal> for instance...take a look at the dapper release notes for kubuntu...it has LS instead of LTS and Sine instead of Since...may not be important, but nees a lil fixin'
<Madpilot> Does anyone know if System->Preferences->Keyboard Shortcuts exists in a stock Dapper install?
<dsas> nixternal: Have you saw https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperPointOneAnnouncement
<nixternal> not until just now ;) thanks dsas
<LaserJock> Madpilot: it should
<Madpilot> OK, thanks, I've long ago lost track of what extra config utils I've installed :)
<LaserJock> grrrr, I'm not liking mediawiki today :(
<nixternal> somebody doing Mailing List work?
<jsgotangco> whats up
<nixternal> i just sent an email to the doc-team list and it bounced back saying it is in moderation
<nixternal> hiya jsgotangco
<nixternal> says im not a member
<jsgotangco> let me check
<jsgotangco> its your lucky day i just woke up
<nixternal> i think i know why actually
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i just switched over to @ubuntu.com and remove the @gmail.com
<nixternal> ??
<jsgotangco> you have to unsubcribe gmail but im adding your ubuntu.com 
<nixternal> ok
<nixternal> wow, i have a lot of those to do now
<jsgotangco> ubject:  	Kubuntu Dapper Release Notes Edit
<jsgotangco>   	Size: 	4200 bytes
<jsgotangco>   	Reason: 	Post by non-member to a members-only list
<nixternal> is there an easy 1 stop shop for the lists to edit that for lists.ubuntu.com?
<jsgotangco> no
<jsgotangco> :)
<crimsun> yes. /bin/sh + mail .
<jsgotangco> yes?
<crimsun> you could script your (un)sub requests
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<crimsun> if you mean a Web-friendly way, um, I don't...think so?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<LaserJock> wha?
<LaserJock> you can change your email address in the web interface
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> but what if you have 100+ subs :)
<LaserJock> you can do all the lists at list.ubuntu.com at the same time
<jsgotangco> wha?
<LaserJock> you hit "Change Globally"
<LaserJock> and it applies to all the lists you are subscribed to on lists.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> that's standard mailman I believe
<jsgotangco> interesting
<nixternal> i just did that
<nixternal> and now i can't log in to any of the lists with 'nixternal@ubuntu.com' or the original 'nixternal@gmail.com'
<nixternal> however...
<nixternal> it does show me registered on all the lists as 'nixternal@ubuntu.com'
<nixternal> thank it is fixed now ;)
<nixternal> question, did anyone see the "patch" for kubuntu dapper release notes come across the doc list?
<Plug> yep
<nixternal> arg
<nixternal> i just resent it, because i haven't seen anything come across my list
<nixternal> i apologize then for the multiple emails
<crimsun> yeah thanks for the spam. =] 
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> enjoy it...
<jsgotangco> meh i told you im going to moderate it :P
<nixternal> ya, im slow ;)
<jsgotangco> LP
<jsgotangco> agghh
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> what is up with "carriage returns" not working as they should on the wiki?
<nixternal> i hit enter, yet it doesn't space the lines, i have to enter twice, and then i get a big goofy space
<Madpilot> stick [[BR] ]  in there
<nixternal> arg BR ;)
<nixternal> i keep forgetting CAPITAL
<crimsun> come on, you know this, mister php.
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> im one of those morons who hate shift keys
<fyrestrtr> can someone review my recent addition to the wiki? Is it okay? First time playing with the wiki :) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DemocracyPlayer
<Madpilot> fyrestrtr, don't forget that Dapper has gdebi now - command-line-free way of installing deb files
<Madpilot> aside from that, it looks pretty good.
<fyrestrtr> oh heh -- I don't do much point-clicking
<nixternal> fyrestrtr: you play with DemPlayer quite a bit?
<nixternal> i have played with some KDE version in the past, and it got on my nerves
<fyrestrtr> no, I installed it in hopes of watching the wwdc broadcast :(
<nixternal> i was thinkin' of picking something up and playing with it again
<fyrestrtr> its working here fine, is there something specific you want me to check out?
<nixternal> nah, any good video/podcasts on it now a days?
<fyrestrtr> well I wouldn't know :) just got it.
<nixternal> FYI, leave the "Global Changes" alone on the mailing list, they do way more harm then good
<mdke> nixternal: are those patches on the list both the same?
<mdke> ah, yes they are
<jsgotangco> yeah the first email was on moderation queue but he got itchy he sent it again lol
<mdke> wonder why it was in the queue
<mdke> they are from the same address
<jsgotangco> he changed his address
<mdke> both mails are from nixternal@ubuntu.com
<mdke> beats me
<jsgotangco> yeah
<rob> mdke, do you think the doc team will want to try relicensing the docs?
<mdke> rob: I don't know. I'd like to
<rob> sorry mdke, my mother just called..
<rob> well, I'm happy to discuss relicensing everything that I've contributed
<mdke> good
<rob> no point reinventing the wheel
<rob> I should be able to help you dissect who owns what too
<jsgotangco> hey
<ompaul> I thought licences were all sorted after that mail to your 4k customers mdke 
<mdke> that was the wiki. Sadly even that isn't sorted out, however
<rob> keep me posted on what you guys want to do
<mdke> if you follow the mailing list you won't go far wrong.
<rob> yep, I have been
* mdke embarks on another translation quest
<mdke> there is only a certain amount of xml errors you can see before you start going insane
* mdke is perilously close to the threshold
<jjesse> i've had problems like that, especially on stuff I've written myself :(
<mdke> hehe
* mdke takes a break
<jjesse> ooo jono is the new community manager
<mdke> yup
* Burgwork just split his tea all over his desk
<jjesse> doh
<mdke> ouch
<Burgwork> including all over the papers and notebook I am using
<jjesse> that sucks
<Burgwork> meh, it happens
<Burgwork> paper dries
<mdke> fingers crossed for the notebook
<Burgwork> oh, paper notebook, not computer
<mdke> ah, good
<Burgwork> my keyboard got some, but we have lots of those
<nixternal> arg
<Burgwork> nixternal, hmm?
<nixternal> hmm?
<nixternal> i read your comment as you "split your teeth"...it is to early and not enough coffee or tea yet
<Burgwork> right
<Burgwork> my tea may be rooibos, but it is not that strong
<nixternal> hehe
<ompaul> any idea where Kamping_Kaiser's DebMirror Doc ended up on help - I can't find it
<nixternal> jjesse: did you get my message yesterday about "membership" and mako?
<jjesse> i missed it 
<nixternal> still waiting for that one, but I am a member none the less, with the kubuntu membership
<nixternal> https://launchpad.net/people/nixternal
<jjesse> ah cool
<nixternal> omg, i just pulled a Burgwork, and spilled my tea
<nixternal> jjesse: you said you can't commit and what not because of your gpg issue right?
<nixternal> so if i create a patch for kubuntu docs or what not in Dapper or Edgy, I should just submit them to the list and not to you? or...
<jjesse> nixternal: sorry was away for a bit, yeah just mail the list
<nixternal> roger that
<nixternal> alrighty, im not getting any of the emails from the doc list, anyone admin here than can check my account?
<nixternal> hi, bye
<ompaul> nixternal, try to resub? if it accepts you then something happened 
<ompaul> nixternal, I sent one a couple of hours ago and Brian Burger answered  have you seen them?
<nixternal> sorry, no i haven't
<nixternal> i just tried to resub, and i get the email telling me some tried to register my account..so it has me registered
<Burgwork> going to have to wait for jerome or mdke 
<nixternal> fun ;)
<Burgwork> they were going to give me rights, but if feel by the wayside
<Burgwork> or maybe it was concern about collection of too much power...
<nixternal> muhaha ;)
<nixternal> i think you should, since you are here during the times they aren't
<nixternal> makes since to me, and i am sure you aren't going anywhere and i think you are trustworthy ;)
<nixternal> you can commit, and i can't if that makes you feel any better ;p
<nixternal> i may have found out why i didn't receive any...maybe...some goofy french/english filters
<nixternal> ooh..im gonna watch lrl video
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-09
<mdke> nixternal: hmm?
<nixternal> what did i do now?
<mdke> something about the mailing list
<mdke> nixternal: you're subscribed, maybe take a look at your subscription options
<nixternal> i did, the only thing i saw was the "filters" for language based topics
<nixternal> english or french
<nixternal> so i removed them, and will wait and see 
<mdke> you are tagged as "not metoo", no idea what that means, but others don't seem to have it on
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> that might be seeing my own posts maybe?
<mdke> ah, that means no copies of your own posts
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> i did set metoo to requests
<mdke> ok, all seems to be well apart from that
<nixternal> ty sir...hopefully it will start working here
<nixternal> im willing to bet it was the english/french filter thing
<Kamping_Kaiser> ompaul, h.u.c/community
<ompaul> Kamping_Kaiser, been there read that :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> thats where it should be ;)
<ompaul> Kamping_Kaiser, what was bugging me was there is no --nocleanup instruction on the mirror
<ompaul> i.e. it does cleanups :) this should be a matter of choice
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh, i know. not my fault :)
<ompaul> Madpilot sent me the actual url :-) 
<Kamping_Kaiser> fame at last ;)
<ompaul> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Debmirror
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. some stray comments
* Kamping_Kaiser notices #'s in the text
<Kamping_Kaiser> later all. *goes to tafe*
<nixternal> mdke: when doing the UDSF to wiki stuff, should we add a small "blurb" about the original author, or where the information came from?
<ompaul> attibs are always good
<ompaul> attribs, and - even better it gives you the chance to have the space searched and people to "object" if that is what they want to do - your trying to be fair use and best practice at the same time
<nixternal> ya, plus if someone has a question, they will reach them, and not me since my name is on the bottom for edits ;)
<nixternal> im actually going to use this tutorial eventually that i just transferred..looks pretty cool
* ompaul downloads the edgy alt CD for testing
<ompaul> fun fun fun
<nixternal> i will say, moinmoin code snippets are garbage compare to mediawiki
<nixternal> the line wrap is fine, but can be very confusing to a new user, or simply look like trash
<ompaul> mediawiki has no granularity for security 
<nixternal> ya..but it does have some nice "formatting" stuff
<nixternal> should we use # or $ to portray the command line?
<nixternal> # == comment out to me
<nixternal> hiya jsgotangco!
<jsgotangco> hello!
<nixternal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TASCAM_US-122
<nixternal> review please ;)
<jsgotangco> wow you have a Tascam interface
<nixternal> no, but i will soon now after doing that
<jsgotangco> i used to have a tascam multitrack loved it to death
<jsgotangco> http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/08/07/philippines.volcano.ap/
<jsgotangco> beautiful!
<nixternal> thats a cool pic
<jsgotangco> yep i saw it explode before its really nice
<nixternal> i seen it in hawaii once a few years ago..actually quite a few years ago..the lava fields there..it is neat to see
<bimberi> hm, something on that page crashes FF here :/
<nixternal> flash?
<nixternal> they have 3 ads that are flash on the page
<bimberi> yes, could be - elements of the page start loading (some text and pics) then boom
<bimberi> works in epiphany though :)
<Burgundavia> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Edgy_Eft_Knot_2 <-- bleedin joy, I knew this would happen
<crimsun> we totally need to plant "hidden" Edgy wiki pages with ponies and stuff
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<mdke> nixternal: add a link to the forum thread at the bottom, I think
<mdke> morning everyone
<Burgundavia> morning mdke
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> mdke, did you take a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TASCAM_US-122 to see how I linked the info at the bottom?  It may be overkill, but i just covered my rear on it
<nixternal> do you think we need a digg article announcing that a release is just "around the corner" ? i dont....
<nixternal> heh, that guy let him have it on that one ;)
<mdke> that looks fine (nice page). I'd remove the bit in italics
<Burgundavia> right, night all
<nixternal> ya, it is more like advertising i think...
<nixternal> nite
<nixternal> ok
<Kamping_Kaiser> rofl @ knot 2 thing
<Madpilot> once again, my feeling that digg is nearly pointless is reinforced... ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh. i have to agree
<nixternal> same here
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey nixternal 
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders if Madpilot 's comment is diggable - probably, knowingt that site
<Madpilot> heh
<nixternal> hehe
<Madpilot> maybe I should start a blog, blog about how utterly pointless Digg is, and then wait for the article to be dugg :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. get addsence ready - i think your on a winner there ;)
* Kamping_Kaiser checks email to see if he gets a sparcstation 20. brb
<Kamping_Kaiser> no reply yet :(
<nixternal> get me one too while you are at it
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh. i want it to go with my sparstation 5s and 10
<Kamping_Kaiser> can someone poiunt me to a page that syas what the different install cds do? i cant work out what i need to do for a minimal install anymore :( these fancy new cds
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: http://releases.ubuntu.com/dapper/
<Kamping_Kaiser> so a default server is 'minimal', and you have to opt in to a lamp stack etc?
* Kamping_Kaiser goes to find out
<mdke> that's right, I think
<Kamping_Kaiser> thanks.
<mdke> well, the default server install includes some server packages
<Kamping_Kaiser> :/ i'm after a minimal install for a gateway
* Kamping_Kaiser finds all this so confusing
<mdke> you can type "minimal" I think
<Kamping_Kaiser> on all cds, or just alternate? *has all cds, just wants to keep this to as few installs as possable*
* Kamping_Kaiser should ask #ubuntu probably.
<Kamping_Kaiser> bbl. thanks mdke .
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: just alternate
* Kamping_Kaiser takes a punt on alternates 'server' install, thanks mdke 
<nixternal> mdke, is it really as simple as for instance,    xml2po -e -o output.pot releasenotes.xml     and then uploading it into rosetta?
<nixternal> say i did that for all of the kubuntu docs, that is all that needs to be done?
<mdke> no
<nixternal> ok, i was going to say that seemed to easy a task
<mdke> steps 1 and 2 were done a long time ago. What we need to do is step 3. It involves a fair amount of correcting invalid xml
<nixternal> the importing back into the repo?
<mdke> that's right
<Kamping_Kaiser> should i ask here about gnome/ubuntu related questions, or is there a 'proper' channel?
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: #ubuntu?
<Kamping_Kaiser> *gnome/uibuntu doc
<Kamping_Kaiser> *ubuntu
<nixternal> hehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> :S
<mdke> what's the question?
<Kamping_Kaiser> the sharing app for ubuntu (in system -> ) has no help, and the bugs been open quite a while. should i try and write some and get it oked at the ubuntu level, or try and go direct to gnome?
<Madpilot> sharing app?
<Kamping_Kaiser> system -> admin -> shared folders
<Madpilot> ah
<Kamping_Kaiser> (it has no help last i looked, looking again)
<mdke> directly to gnome
<Kamping_Kaiser> still none
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok, thanks
<mdke> find the upstream bug, and see if someone is working on it already, maybe there is material in the user guide but no help button
<Kamping_Kaiser> thanks, i posted on the bug - now i'll have to see if theres any action
<mdke> glatzor: got a moment?
<mdke> manicka: hi
<glatzor> mdke: sure
<mdke> glatzor: about the german translation of the ubuntu desktop guide, i downloaded them yesterday and they still had *loads* of problems. Can you get someone on the team to clear it up?
<glatzor> mdke: The team is quite inactive at the moment.
<glatzor> I think that I have to finish the work myself and I am going to this tomorrow
<glatzor> will this be ok?
<mdke> sure thing, thanks
<nixternal> hello there ;)
* nixternal is reporting for work!
<nixternal> mdke, i am going to play with the translation stuff to see if i will be of some assistance ;)
<mdke> nixternal: that would be great
<mdke> nixternal: i'm around for about 45 minutes if you need a hand
<nixternal> cool..i think i should have a good grab of it right now for step 3..i know to run the translate script, find errors, fix them...once they are fixed, i submit a patch?
<nixternal> oh, these translations, for trunk or dapper?, or both?
<mdke> branches/dapper
<mdke> nixternal: yes, that's right. any completely new translations should be added to the relevant Makefile and packaging too, and svn added, if you can do that
<nixternal> sure, i will check that out as well
<mdke> I will help you along
<nixternal> when downloading translations, do you download them individually after they are at 100%?   don't grab them if they aren't complete correct? 
<mdke> nixternal: no, you grab them all
<nixternal> ok
<mdke> what doc are you doing?
<mdke> (highlight me with questions about this btw)
<nixternal> "Download Translations" -> "Everything | PO format" -> "Request Download"     <- mdke ;)
<mdke> yep
<mdke> what doc?
<nixternal> about-ubuntu
<mdke> I did that one yesterday
<mdke> (hence it wasn't in the list of ones to do)
<nixternal> k
<mdke> try about kubuntu
<nixternal> cool
<nixternal> there is "aboutkubuntu" and "desktopguide"
<mdke> aboutkubuntu is likely to be a bit easier
<nixternal> requested both of them
<nixternal> ya, i will start with the aboutkubuntu first
<nixternal> i know the guide is huge, and aboutkubuntu is smaller and probably easier to pick up on
<mdke> Burgwork: btw, saw your exchange with jono about the participate page yesterday, check out the ContributingToUbuntu doc that andreas and jordan are working on for our docs, might be appropriate for the website
<Burgwork> mdke, yep
<Burgwork> thanks
<mdke> nixternal: how's it going? I ought to disappear soon
<nixternal> it is good so far, i got the dl links
<nixternal> if i have questions in a bit, i will ping you, and when you get around...i will be here all day, so no worries if you have to go
<nixternal> you will be back ;)
<nixternal> plus im working on a post for your blog ;)
<nixternal> trying to give it a title that is appropriate and to the point
<nixternal> Help Benefit the Documentation Project   that is the first idea
<mdke> it needs to have "forum" in it :)
<mdke> ok, ping me with questions, and I'll check later/tomorrow
<nixternal> thats cool, thanks!
<jjesse> afternoon nixternal
<mdke> cyall later
<nixternal> hiya jjesse ;)
<nixternal> l8r mdke, thanks again
<mdke> thank *you*
<jjesse> quick wiki formating question, how do i link to a subpage/
<jjesse> for example KubuntuDocs/Edgy
<jjesse> on my wiki page only links to Kubuntu
<nixternal> [:KubuntuDocs/Edgy:Your Link] 
<jjesse> thanks
<nixternal> no problem boss
<nixternal> ;)
<mdke> or ["/Subpage"] 
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> im getting used to just doing it like KubuntuDocs/Edgy instead of [:KubuntuDocs/Edgy:Kubuntu Edgy Documentation] 
<nixternal> that way there people can see the subpage layout in case they get confused my simplicity
<nixternal> that commercial != non-free software topic on sounder is getting beat to death
<LaserJock> heh
<jjesse> every topic on sounder gets beaten to death
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-10
<nixternal> mdke, if you are still awake, i have done the aboutkubuntu translation, up to last step under "step 3", the makefile. there are 7 new dir/files (ku, ms, be, he, hi, ta, is) listed with ?, which in this case means they aren't in svn yet, and I fixed a simple error with the "it" translation .xml
<nixternal> mdke: i see the "Makefile" for about:  ../build/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/ and so on, this is where I add the new translations..now once all this is done, do i create a diff and email it?
<nixternal> mdke: http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/aboutkubuntu_translation.xml.diff
<Burgwork> mdke, you still up?
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I think it might be a little late (or early) for him yet
<Burgwork> LaserJock, it is just on midnight there
<Burgwork> am I going to see you at ubucon?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I'm up for 2 talks perhaps
<LaserJock> one on contributing to Ubuntu and the other on Launchpad and other Ubuntu tools
<LaserJock> I'm hoping they actually find somebody qualified (like a LP dev) to do the second one :-)
<Burgwork> right
<Burgwork> so far I have escaped giving any talks
<LaserJock> well, I went to the organizational meeting
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> so they were looking around for MOTUs and I was the only one present :-)
<Burgwork> right, that was the one I missed
<Burgwork> I miss most meetings, as I hate them
<bimberi> @now london
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/London: August 10 2006, 01:01:49
<bimberi> fact of life: if you turn up to meetings you find leave with tasks :)
<bimberi> s/find //
<LaserJock> sure, I kinda figured
<jsgotangco> interesting freespire has codecs
<jsgotangco> seems to be more of a knee jerk reaction to say hey we got more and we're giving it free now
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> jsgotangco: are you familiar with doing doc translations, dl'n them from Rosetta, running translate.sh on them and what not?
<jsgotangco> there was an email on that no?
<nixternal> ya, i was working with mdke on it..as i have the kubuntu docs completed, well as far as i can tell
<nixternal> actually, i have a lot of manual fixes yet to do for the desktop guide, but i complete the aboutkubuntu ones
<nixternal> i received 7 or so ? when i did svn status.   the ? are referenced to new translation directories that aren't on svn
<jsgotangco> ahh i dont delve too much on the translations, i have too much stuff to do already
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> didn't know if you did them in the past or not..im anxious to see if i did them right
<jsgotangco> mdke is the current authority for that
<nixternal> i got all of the xml validation errors fixed, and created the patch
<jsgotangco> you dont have svn access yet?
<nixternal> not yet
<nixternal> i want to make sure what i did is correct first
<nixternal> http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/
<nixternal> aboutkubuntu_translations.xml.patch is what i created
<nixternal> svn diff > blahfdlajfda.xml.patch after doing the fixes and what not, and fixed the makefile as well
<nixternal> just have to be patient for about another 5 hours ;)
<nixternal> mdke will be on by then
<bluefoxicy> Hello.
<bluefoxicy> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PortKnocking
<bluefoxicy> I would like to point out that Example 1 is sub-optimal.
<Burgundavia> bluefoxicy: it is a wiki. Please fix as needed
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia: oh, I didn't see the edit link.
<Burgundavia> you need to login
<bluefoxicy> I'm also not sure how i should rewrite it.
<bluefoxicy> since I don't want to just cut out information, but i don't want to make the page twice as long either
<Burgundavia> that part I leave up to you
<bluefoxicy> (the first example shows blocking port 22 completely; but you can block SYN packets, open for an IP, then close for that IP and established connections will keep running; TCP itself has a lot of anti-spoofing measures for existing connections)
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  Eh.  Then I'm going to put an endnote and let someone else make it flow right if they want.
<bluefoxicy> oh wait nm
<bluefoxicy> what the heck
<bluefoxicy> "Then, edit the configuration file. We will present two different approches. One that is more adapted to connections with no keep-alive (http for example !), another mode adapted to permenant connections (SSH, IRC...)."
<bluefoxicy> screw this, I have no idea what I'm reading.
<nixternal> lol
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: just redirect https://wiki.ubuntu.com/newbe_to_newbe_guide_to_linux_commands_-_a_documentation_of_a_learning_proccess
<Madpilot> meh. Inclined to just delete it, but that wouldn't help
<Burgundavia> don't do that
<Burgundavia> the redirected pages need to say "Redirecting..."
<Burgundavia> because if the help wiki is slow, people are not catching it
<Madpilot> Mediawiki does internal redirects better than MoinMoin...
<Burgundavia> yes it does
<Burgundavia> although is technically an external one
<Burgundavia> you can set the refresh to anypage
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Website
<Madpilot> heh. Cool trick, if a bit pointless :)
<Burgundavia> hey, life happens
<nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20168
<nixternal> take a look at that docbook guys
<nixternal> i know the error is with the , choisissez after </guimenu> when validating xml
<nixternal> i can remove that and it works fine, however it would mess up the translation..
(dsas/#ubuntu-doc) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DemocracyPlayer ?
(fyrestrtr/#ubuntu-doc) wth why don't they stick with wiki.ubuntu.com
(dsas/#ubuntu-doc) documentation goes on the documentation wiki at help.ubuntu.com/community
<fyrestrtr> so what's the difference between that, and wiki.ubuntu.com
<dsas> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterWikiDocs for details
<dsas> wiki.ubuntu.com is being used for specifications, team pages, development stuff etc.
<Madpilot> fyrestrtr, I moved it
<Madpilot> actually, no, I didn't move DemocracyPlayer - but someone else did 
<Madpilot> I've moved a bunch of other pages in the last couple of days :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<nixternal> http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?content=5789
<Burgundavia> lloydinho: can you please merge ContributetoUbuntu with HelpingUbuntu?
<lloydinho> on the wiki?
<lloydinho> Sure.
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> note that HelpingUbuntu is going to go the ubuntu website RSN
<Burgundavia> it also strikes me that people cannot effectively contribute to Ubuntu without a web connection (of some kind) and thus it does not make sense to have an offline document
<lloydinho> is Helping Ubuntu going on the Ubuntu website?
<Burgundavia> yes, at /community/contribute
<Burgundavia> it still needs some work and I want jono to look over it
<lloydinho> Well, I based most of the contributetoUbuntu on HelpingUbuntu and the old participate page, so my idea of a merge would be replacing most of it...
<lloydinho> What did you have in mind with a merge, exactly?
<Burgundavia> I want one document, how we get there is kind of immaterial to me
<lloydinho> okay. I'll put them together, and you can have a look at it afterwards.
<Burgundavia> the high level goals of HelpingUbuntu are to describe the major projects of ubuntu and shuffle people off to those projects, without bogging down in lots of details
<Burgundavia> for instance, I find both particiapte and your page way too wordy
<Burgundavia> mine is probably a little too far, but I think we can find a good compromise
<lloydinho> Yeah, both mine and the participate page offer people specific tasks that they can do without having to look further.
<lloydinho> Most of the team pages are very detailed and presume that people are in for the long haul.
<Burgundavia> right, I don't think that is write way
<Burgundavia> right way, rather
<Burgundavia> we can fix the team pages
<Burgundavia> we should describe what the teams do, rather than what they are doing right now
<lloydinho> Yes. Well, that was the idea of the TeamPageTemplates.
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> I only care that teams at least have a /projects and a /getinvolved page
<lloydinho> the more I look at this HelpingUbuntu page, the less I like it. Explaining each team and its tasks in one or two sentences is simply not enough for people who have little experience with F/OSS community work.
<Burgundavia> right, like I said, mine is probably a little too sparse
<Burgundavia> I also haven't worked on it for a long while
<lloydinho> Hmm. I suppose we'll have to find something in between.
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> go nuts, edit like a wild man
<lloydinho> heh
<Burgundavia> mdke: do you have fop on doc.ubuntu.com?
<mdke> Burgundavia: yes, but building pdfs doesn't work on there
<Burgundavia> from svg?
<Burgundavia> bugger
<mdke> I dunno about from svg. probably not
<mdke> I've only tries from xml
<mdke> but unlikely that it will work, it was the images that cause the problem - the particular imaging library it uses requires X, or something crazy like that
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> I am trying to get this bloody svg into pdf form
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, who's doing the printing?
<Burgundavia> fast print, near the bay st. bridge
<mdke> nixternal: can you post me that link again?
<nixternal> sure
<nixternal> http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/translations/diffs/
<mdke> thanks
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, best case scenario: they take SVG. Worst: Export as bitmap->huge PNG->Scribus or GIMP->PDF
<Burgundavia> I will try that tomorrow
<nixternal> http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/translations/    <-- this has the .tar.gz files of the aboutkubuntu/ and desktopguide/
<mdke> nixternal: do those include completely new translations?
<nixternal> there are a few yes
<mdke> in the diffs?
<nixternal> yes
<mdke> great
<mdke> it's the diffs I want so I'll grab those
<nixternal> ok
<mdke> nixternal: no new translations for aboutkubuntu?
<nixternal> there were a few
<mdke> nixternal: they aren't in your patch
<nixternal> hmmm
<nixternal> let me check it here
<nixternal> ku/ ms/ be/ he/ hi/ ta/ is/   are all new for about kubuntu...so doing svn diff doesn't pick up the new stuff
<mdke> ok
<mdke> do "svn add *" then "svn diff" again
<mdke> that way you'll get them in the diff
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> lemme patch and up really quick
<nixternal> diff rather ;)
<nixternal> one sec..almost done
<nixternal> desktopguide.diff is a biggie
<mdke> ok, i'll just look at aboutkubuntu for now
<nixternal> ok, they are done...refresh that page
<mdke> that's better!
<mdke> ok, who knows a bit of bash scripting?
<nixternal> don't everyone speak up at once ;)
<Burgundavia> some, what do you need?
<mdke> I need to do: for x in *, do ../../validate.sh x/aboutkubuntu.xml
<mdke> as it were
<Burgundavia> hmm, that is loops, never really got those to work, plus it is 1am here
<mdke> ok, sorted, I think
<mdke> nixternal: aboutkubuntu looks good to me
<nixternal> cool
<nixternal> about kubuntu was the easier one, as the edits were all pretty easy
<mdke> ok, let's try desktopguide now
<nixternal> validate.sh was my friend
<nixternal> i would make an edit, save, validate..just so i wasn't stepping on my own toes
<nixternal> plus Kate has built in XML validation which goes a step further
<mdke> oh great, so you validated every file before moving on to the next one?
<nixternal> oh ya
<nixternal> ../../validate.sh desktopguide.xml   in the respected directory..and that would spit out all the errors
<mdke> excellent
<nixternal> then i would make edits to respected file, save it, and then run validation again, to make sure i didn't miss anything
<nixternal> and to make sure i didn't break anything
<mdke> perfect
<mdke> ah, ms/preface.xml is missing
<nixternal> let me look
<mdke> no, not your fault
<nixternal> oh
<mdke> otherwise, everything good with desktopguide too, nice work
<nixternal> thank you!
<mdke> how did you fix the id errors?
<nixternal> i would open them up with Kate, as well as the same file under C/ and reference back and forth
<nixternal> most of the id errors were spelling mistakes anyways
<nixternal> dan instead of and
<mdke> excellent
<mdke> it's a good way to get familiar with xml this :)
<nixternal> <menuchoices> were the majority though
<nixternal> oh, i am familiar with xml, as i have done docbook work int he past
<mdke> gotcha
<nixternal> plus i have been playing around with the "Switching" guides as well with jjesse
<mdke> ok. So you changed kubuntu/Makefile too?
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> i added the new directories in for html build and pdf build
<nixternal> i didn't mess with the LuLu stuff though, as it seemed there were only a few listed there
<nixternal> plus if need be, they can be added very easily
<mdke> that's absolutely fine.
<mdke> one thing though on the pdfs, you've used some of the specific parameters that were korean only as your template
<mdke> so I'm going to remove this bit: "--stringparam body.font.family "batang" --stringparam monospace.font.family "dotum""
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> ya, because i copied/pasted 
<mdke> korean and some other languages need special fonts, that is why that bit is there.
<mdke> nixternal: splendid, thanks a lot for that.
<mdke> just doing a test build of everything now
<nixternal> no problem, just a token of my appreciation for letting me hang out around here ;)
<mdke> argh!
<nixternal> uh oh
<nixternal> how bad?
* mdke slaps jjesse in his absence for continually uploading broken stuff
<nixternal> whew
<nixternal> you had me sweatin' on that one
* mdke slaps himself for blaming jjesse
<mdke> my bad, I've updated and he has fixed it
<mdke> excellent, excellent
<nixternal> lol
<lloydinho> Burgundavia, have a look at the page now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingUbuntu
<Burgundavia> looks good
<Burgundavia> I am about to crash
<Burgundavia> night all
<mdke> lloydinho: you're not giving up on the contributing article for the help system, right?
<lloydinho> No, Burgundavia just wanted me to update the HelpingUbuntu page as well. 
<Burgundavia> mdke: tbh, I just don't see the point of having an offline version
<nixternal> lloydinho: for "Hardware Testing" there is now a PDA Testing Team as well
<Burgundavia> to contribute meaningfullly to the ubuntu community, you really need a web connection of some kind, even if just at the library
<Burgundavia> hence, lets just maintain the web one
<mdke> Burgundavia: for a start, it's central to the inclusion of the packaging guide in the help system
<lloydinho> nixternal,  then please add it ;-)
<nixternal> how did i know that was coming ;)
<mdke> and we've also hacked the contribute sections out of about-ubuntu and desktopguide in favour of using that
<lloydinho> heh :)
<Burgundavia> I don't really understand why the packaging guide should be shipped either
<Burgundavia> as a supplemental package, maybe, but not shipping
<nixternal> it is all apart of recruiting i think Burgundavia
<nixternal> packaging is exciting and fun
<Burgundavia> right, but again, can you contribute to the ubuntu community without some sorf of web connection, no
<lloydinho> You can make packages without being on-line.
<nixternal> nothing like debdiffs, pbuilder, chroot's, and what not
<Burgundavia> and then what are you going to do with them?
<mdke> for example, the Ubuntu build system makes packages without being on-line
<Burgundavia> plus, packaging is going to be done by such a tiny minority
<Burgundavia> to use pbuilder, you need bandwdith
<Burgundavia> lots and lots of it
<Burgundavia> there are plenty of debian people who don't use it for that very reason
<Burgundavia> plus a shipped document is just likely to lead to frustration, as things change, projects change and people change
<mdke> that's a nothing argument too, because the document has to change with them too
<lloydinho> Burgundavia, you have a point - that is why the document I'm writing is generally more intended for people who have little experience with F/OSS and will be needing a little more hand-holding.
<Burgundavia> plus the maintainence of two seperate docs, in two sperate places
<mdke> it's not being maintained in two separate places
<Burgundavia> they have a one para in about ubuntu and url
<Burgundavia> to /community/participate
<nixternal> you want to know the truth...only the past month or so i have actually read over the docs that come installed..and only because i wanted to learn the kde help center, so i could help out iwth the kubuntu documentation
<Burgundavia> So you want to help, thats great. Please go here!
<nixternal> other than that, i never looked at system documentation..not even when i used other distros as well
<Burgundavia> right documentation is rarely used
<nixternal> i read the KDE docs for the first time just recently
<lloydinho> uh, well, we _are_ trying to get people to use the system docs more often.
<Burgundavia> yes, we are
<nixternal> however Burgundavia, i think that can also be contributed to the fact that i am somewhat tech savvy, and can usually fix my way out of an issue and what not..or i know where to go directly for my help
<Burgundavia> the packaging guide and a contributing guide are really not going to help that
<Burgundavia> nixternal: regular users rarely turn to docs either. It is well documented
<Burgundavia> to me, the packaging guide is like dive in python (which is also no longer shipped)
<Burgundavia> plus that space is small but meaningful
<Burgundavia> anyway, I really need to sleep
<Burgundavia> night
<nixternal> nite
<lloydinho> night.. :-)
<lloydinho> wow, a little grumpy at the end there.
<lloydinho> I still think that having off-line documentation makes very good sense.
<nixternal> i agree, however i think there needs to be a better system to feed that documentation
<nixternal> as it is right now, i don't see any reason for me to click "Help"
<lloydinho> no, that's true.
<mvirkkil> lloydinho: hi
<lloydinho> Well, we've discussed having a top-level help menu as well...
<mvirkkil> lloydinho: you sent me some mail
<lloydinho> mvirkkil! Hi!
<lloydinho> So you did get my mail. Sorry for pestering you! :-)
<mvirkkil> lloydinho: I'm sorry I haven't been more active. I was organizing assembly2006 last week
<mvirkkil> lloydinho: Yeah I did. You have to pester a bit more yet, because I haven't done what you asked. 
<nixternal> i think people tend to view "Help" as super beginner information. like how to type or something...i think taking info that is on wiki pages and the wiki forums thing, turning them into documentation..that is a good idea, just need to find that way to feed the user the info
<lloydinho> no problem. I'll do that if I have to.. :)
<lloydinho> mvirkkil, but do you think it would be easy to do?
<mvirkkil> lloydinho: yes, I think it shouldn't be a problem.
<mvirkkil> lloydinho: Not super easy, but certainly doable.
<lloydinho> mvirkkil, cool! It would be really great to have that feature as well. I'm sure we would make great use of it
<mdke> what was the feature?
<mvirkkil> lloydinho: I keep the whole docbook in memory, so at somepoint one could walk it and add the necessary stuff, before serializing it to txt
<mvirkkil> mdke: "See this page on the wiki" or something.
<lloydinho> mdke: yes the wiki referral links on the exported wiki2docbook pages
<mdke> I don't get it
<mdke> when you export a wikipage to docbook, you want a link which points back to the same wikipage?
<lloydinho> so that people can edit it and add comments.
<lloydinho> To make it easy to improve and add suggestions.
<mvirkkil> mdke: I suppose the idea is that if someone reads our docs and wants to make a contribution somewhere, it's a click (and a login) away.
<lloydinho> That was the idea, anyway.
<mvirkkil> or your docs :=
<mvirkkil> :)
<lloydinho> mdke, I thought it was basically your idea to begin with. Having an easily editable wiki will make it easier to involve people in the documentation.
<nixternal> mdke: so would you like me to tackle the xubuntu translations as well?
<mdke> right I see where you're going. "Read this page on the wiki" wouldn't be an appropriate link though
<mdke> it was the "read" bit that confused me... I thought, "but, they've just read it"
<mdke> nixternal: if you fancy it, sure thing! There is a problem with those afaik, the validate script spits out the images, just ignore that
<nixternal> ok..i will take a look at them in a few hours..im going to head off to sleepy land
<nixternal> g'nite everyone!
<mvirkkil> lloydinho: Where on a page should it be placed? Top or bottom?
<lloydinho> good nite!
<lloydinho> mvirkkil, at the bottom, I think.
<mdke> "Contribute to this document"?
<lloydinho> mdke, I think the original phrase was "Does this work for you? Share your experiences, tips and tricks and improve the Ubuntu documentation >> to wiki page"
<mvirkkil> ok. Please keep bugging me about it so I won't forget it.
<lloydinho> mvirkkil, cool! Will do! :-)
<lloydinho> ( >> = link)
<mdke> i think it needs to be something that makes it clear that "wiki page" equates to a place that the user can work directly on the document
<mdke> but anyhow, this can be tinkering with later
<lloydinho> I think Mikko will make it so the exact text can be decided upon by the administrator exporting the doc
* mdke nods
* manicka agrees with mdke's forum post
<mdke> manicka: how do you feel about the way the team is looking? any issues that you want to sort out?
<manicka> I like the direction it is taking. I guess we've pushed it a little into the doc-teams corner but that's ok with me
<manicka> also, I'm happy to get things kicked off but we desperately need more team members to make it a reality in the long run
<mdke> sure thing
<manicka> I've worked in a team before where only one or two people did the work... it's not healthy
<mdke> well, I think that if the right infrastructure is there for a team, and people are out there, and the team is visible enough, it will work
<manicka> yes, i hope so :)
<manicka> the fridge posting etc will help
<manicka> i haven't looked at planet ubuntu yet, did you put one there as well?
<mdke> yes
<manicka> :)
<manicka> I'd also like  a clearer idea of how we will keep the import page maintained. Do we need someone to oversee the posts that are added to it or for that matter need someone who regularly reviews the how-to forum for likely posts to add to the list
<mdke> manicka: what do you think? I think it's the job of the whole team to use that page
<manicka> I keep an eye on what the udsf adds to their threads to doc page but they have slowed down their work rate considerably of late
<manicka> yes, I'd like the whole team to do it
<manicka> I'd like that made clear somewhere
<mdke> use the forum page for everything, feel free to edit it
<manicka> ok
<mdke> holy crap that is an unbelievable amount of new KDG translations
<mdke> oh no, /me was looking at the wrong thing
<mpt> mdke, did you get my mail?
<mdke> mpt: yes, I take it you didn't get my reply
<mpt> mdke, no
<mdke> mpt: I'll resend it now
<mpt> thanks
<mdke> mpt: gone
<lloydinho> mdke, did you see Corey's argument against having two separate Contribute docs above?
<mdke> lloydinho: I saw his argument against shipping the contribute doc in the distribution anyway.
<mdke> dunno about two separate docs
<lloydinho> Yeah, well - same thing, really
<lloydinho> I was just wondering what the best course of action on this would be.
<mdke> we could ship the same doc in the help system as on the website...
<lloydinho> Because Corey wants the succinct version of the Contribute doc. Just the basic "These are the teams. Here's how you can get in touch with them"
<lloydinho> And I've been doing the verbose hand-holding "If you're unsure how to contribute, you can do this and that, and you can contact the team for more details"
<lloydinho> I think they may have different audiences in mind.
<mdke> ok, I can see that
<lloydinho> I'm interested in appealing to new users who aren't familiar with F/OSS to any great extent
<lloydinho> And give them a good introduction of how the Ubuntu community works.
<lloydinho> That introduction would necessarily be different from the one that F/OSS veterans would want.
<mdke> I think that sounds very good.
<mdke> but again, I can also see why that approach would work for the website too
<lloydinho> yes, we could well put the extended version on the website as well.
<lloydinho> But I would very much like to just have one Contribute doc to maintain, too.
<lloydinho> Would it be possible to have one extended document that you can "fold" into a shorter one?
<lloydinho> I've seen that done with VIM, but it would be a neat trick to pull off on a webpage..
<mdke> nothing springs to mind
<lloydinho> I wouldn't think there would be any such solution readily available
* mdke thinks the extended version for both would work, to maintain 1 doc. 
<mdke> shall we discuss further on the Mailing List, I need to go now
<lloydinho> Yes. I would like that, too.
<mdke> cool
<lloydinho> Cool, I'll send a mail out. See ya.
<nixternal> good mornin'
<nixternal> LaserJock: class tonight!! i am definitely interested in that..and, what do you file a ubuntu.com bug against?
<mdke> ubuntu-website
<LaserJock> lloydinho: ping?
<nixternal> ty mdke ;)
<LaserJock> nixternal: I've just got to figure out how to do it :-)
<nixternal> uh oh ;)
<LaserJock> well, I started writing last night, and it just got huge
<nixternal> ya, i expect it to be
<nixternal> mdke:  xubuntu/desktopguide/am/desktopguide.xml   <xi:include.......... href="../../../common/am/preface.xml"/>    <- the error is becase there is no such directory or file under /common...easy fix?
<mdke> nixternal: yes, do "svn mkdir common/am && svn cp common/C/preface.xml common/am/preface.xml"
<nixternal> sweet, thanks
<mdke> thanks again
<nixternal> you the man mdke!
<nixternal> mdke: xubuntu/desktopguide/sv/*.xml   all the files are empty...should the directory be removed, or just leave it as is and forget the errors due to the files being empty?
<nixternal> mdke: http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/translations/diffs/             xubuntu_translations.diff is complete, and 5.8mb, 25 new translations/directories, 1 with empty .xml files, and the Makefile has been edited to create the new pdf's
<mdke> nixternal: the empty xml file might be due to a bug in rosetta, I'll take a look tomorrow
<mdke> nixternal: thanks for doing that, I'll deal tomorrow and upload
<Burgwork> !time london
<Burgwork> hmm, how do I activate that bloody bot again
<mdke> it's 19.27
<Burgwork> ah, ok
<Burgwork> trying to get a hold of malcolm yates
* mdke hopes he doesn't work this late ;)
<Burgwork> +44 (0) 7769 703709 <-- is the zero part of the number
<mdke> mobile
<mdke> cellular, or whatever you guys call it
<Burgwork> yep, but I am getting a "this number doens't work" when I dial it
<mdke> have you tried ommitting the 0?
<mdke> oh, that was a question
<Burgwork> yep
<mdke> i think generally it should be omitted
<mdke> hmm
<Burgwork> ok, got through
<nixternal> np mdke, the xubuntu ones were easier, as the only mistakes was mispelling <sudo-and-root> as <sudo-dan-root> again. and <emphasis> being <emphasys>
<jjesse> hmmm did we need to update our docs for 6.06.1 ?
<jjesse> i'm referencing bug 55913
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 55913 in ubuntu-docs "Firefox default Homepage should now reffer to 6.06.1" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55913
<nixternal> firefox default homepage..is that really doc related?  that is setup in the DE-default-settings isn't it?
<nixternal> as for 6.06.1, nothing new and exciting really except for bug fixes..however, i think that maybe the "Release Notes" should have been updated to reflect version&
<jjesse> probablly should have been communicated better w/ the doc team for expectations
<nixternal> +1
<nixternal> kubuntu meeting today as well jjesse, i have added a blurb to the agenda concerning "knot release" information
<jjesse> nixternal: i know, though can't make it
<jjesse> the time is not good
<jjesse> for me
<nixternal> as the knots come out, the releases need to start selling Edgy..as of right now, i have yet to see anything "bleeding edge" from any of the releases
<nixternal> ya, 5 o'clock is traffic time for you
<nixternal> sabdfl announced Edgy as bleeding edge, new technologies, you name it, to create a foundation for future releases of *ubuntu. 
<nixternal> time we get edgy then ;)
<jjesse> did you read his post in regards to communicating ggoals on his blgo?
<jjesse> blog
<nixternal> ya..im going to re-read it as well...that way there i can communicate well when it comes to the edgy stuff ;)
<nixternal> right now im just a bumbling fool
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-11
<Madpilot> Wow, there are *four* different pages in help.u.c/c on encrypted filesystems, and all of them seem totally different... and none of them seem to have been updated for Dapper... :|
<nixternal> heh, been there looked at um
<Madpilot> ah well, CategorySecurity is slightly more up to date now - and CatCleanup has a few new entries... 
<Madpilot> meh... we've still got hardware pages spread over both wikis... messy.
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot, its all a bit messy
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders if he'll have time sunday night to look. bit busy atm touhg :/
<Kamping_Kaiser> *though
<Madpilot> yes, but I wasn't going to point that out ;)
<nixternal> i have some open time this weekend for some wiki work, and that is what i intend to do..try and knock down at least 20 catcleanup pages
<nixternal> i have to get chuggin' along on the switching guide as well
<Kamping_Kaiser> but beofre that, i have to work out a proper backup system for a community group... sigh.
<Kamping_Kaiser> so no, no time this weekend ;/
<Madpilot> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ubuntupolice.png <-- I think this phrase should replace "Linux for human beings" in Edgy+1 ;)
<mdke> that's awesome
<Madpilot> not my work, it's by johnlittle in -marketing - worth sharing, tho ;)
<jsgotangco> haha half life 2
<rob> very cool
<nixternal> mornin'
<nixternal> mdke: did you get a chance to look over the xubuntu desktop guide translations?
<mdke> nixternal: fraid not, have been very busy at work today
<mdke> nixternal: I'll try and take a look this evening
<nixternal> no problem..just a friendly reminder that they are ready for review ;)
<mdke> nixternal: 5.8 MB? holy cow
<nixternal> ya, it was a biggie ;)
* mdke looks to see the translation status
<mdke> meh, lots of empty ones :/
<mdke> 4 new complete translations though, not bad
<mdke> nixternal: looks perfect dude. I'll add the three missing preface files manually
<nixternal> i thought i created those?
<nixternal> 3, well maybe i missed some, because i believe there were quite a few now that i think about it
<mdke> nixternal: you might have created them but not included them in the patch
<nixternal> oops ;)
<mdke> you did the patch from branches/dapper/xubuntu
<mdke> no worries at all, great work again
<nixternal> oh ya, that is why it didn't grab those
<nixternal> anymore need to be done, let me know
<mdke> there is the server guide and packaging guide, if you are a glutton for punishment. Otherwise I will get to them soonish
<nixternal> ok...i will request them via LP/Rosetta, and work on them today a little bit
<mdke> they are slightly more complicated, because you need to do the Makefile for ubuntu and kubuntu, and the packaging for Ubuntu is a bit more laborious. But it's more or less the same stuff
<nixternal> Groovy
* jsgotangco yawns
<nixternal> eww, mouthwash first next time please ;)
<nixternal> are you waking up or going to sleep?
<nixternal> isn't is like 4am there
<jsgotangco> yep
<mdke> oh shit
* mdke thinks about the size of the commit mail
<mdke> oh well, it has gotta be done
<nixternal> lol mdke
<nixternal> i can start making smaller diffs from now on to curb that
<mdke> nixternal: well, it has to be uploaded eventually, the bandwidth comes out in the wash
<nixternal> true
* mdke tries to make up for it with an amusing commit message
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> blame it on me
* mdke looks at his 128 kbit upload
<nixternal> eww
<mdke> yeah. Should've used the doc server
<nixternal> ahh ya, some ssh action from there, itw ould have upped it rather quick
<mdke> yes, it is very fast. I use it quite often for things like that... just forgot
<mdke> oh, that wasn't so bad
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> here comes that email ;)
<mdke> yeah, it's a biggie
<mdke> the archive version has crashed epiphany anyway :/
<nixternal> i love the warning message
<nixternal> do not download, oh well you already did
<nixternal> alrighty, i requested the translations..gonna go take care of some stuff, come back and get to work on them
<nixternal> bbiaf
<LaserJock> mdke: I've had that happen before wit epi
<LaserJock> *with
<LaserJock> I reopened with firefox and it was ok
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-12
<mpt> mdke, still no reply :-/
<robotgeek> mdke: pongish
<Burgundavia> nixternal____: going to have to reschedule our classroom next week, as I am going to be away
<nixternal> sorry for the floods earlier, as it seems my router was nailed...
<robotgeek> nixternal: heh, got kicked out too, i guess
<nixternal> you did?
<nixternal> i know i did big time
<nixternal> i have had a cisco pix 501 for about 6 years now, and last week it died..so i installed a cheap wrt54gs v5, come to find out it was vulnerable to everything
<Burgundavia> nixternal: going to have to reschedule our classroom next week, as I am going to be away
<nixternal> hmm..need to let the guys know, and see what they want to do...they can either reschedule it or insert someone else
<Burgundavia> YEP
<Burgundavia> yep, rather
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> we don't have one next week Burgundavia, we aren't until Sep 16th and 17th
<Burgundavia> right, going to need reschedule that one as well
<nixternal> oh
<Burgundavia> I am also going to be out of town that week
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> mdke: serverguide translations == all empty
<nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20352
<nixternal> somebody commented out tar and rm, so that don't work ;)   sillies
<Kamping_Kaiser> tafe might be good for somethign: one subject is User Documentation Systems.... with any luck it'll help me here
<HighBit> hello
<Madpilot> hi
<HighBit> how are you?
<mdke_> nixternal: was probably me playing with something. feel free to uncomment it
<nixternal> i did ;)
<nixternal> still, both tar.gz from libray.launchpad had nothing but empty directories
<mdke_> eh?
<nixternal> had a bunch of blank .xml files
<nixternal> like they hadn't been completed yet
<mdke_> the tar.gz shouldn't have any xml
<mdke_> should just be one directory with lots of *.po files
<mdke_> maybe a problem with them, I'll check it out
<nixternal> im sorry..after doing ./translate.sh
<nixternal> all it does is create a bunch of directories
<nixternal> and then the packagingguide.xml and what not are all empty
<mdke_> is this server guide or packaging guide?
<nixternal> both
<mdke_> you said server earlier
<mdke_> right, I'll try them
<nixternal> ya, it was pretty much the same for both
<mdke_> nixternal: serverguide seems to work ok here
<nixternal> let me try mine really quick
<nixternal> generic/serverguide?
<mdke_> yup
<nixternal> zh_TW/serverguide.xml:1: parser error : Start tag expected, '<' not found
<nixternal> ^
<nixternal> rm: cannot remove `.xml2po.mo': No such file or directory
<nixternal> the last 2 lines that i get
<nixternal> but there are a bunch of the serverguide.xml:1: parser errors because the files are empty
<mdke> I've got as far as "es", so far it looks ok
<nixternal> hmm..i wonder if the dowload they sent me was bad?
<mdke> could be that there is a bug in zh_TW
<nixternal> well...everyone of the files show blank for me
<mdke> either that or you did something wrong to your local copy
<nixternal> only thing i did was cp it to the directory
<nixternal> my local copy has been svn up
<mdke> no idea
<nixternal> just resubmitted
<nixternal> this is in the dapper sources correct?
<nixternal> as i am still getting the same thing
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey jenda :)
<mdke> nixternal: did you refresh your svn tree?
<nixternal> a few times
<jenda> Kamping_Kaiser!
<jenda> nixternal!
<jenda> :)
<mdke> :(
<nixternal> hiya jenda ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> mate !
<jenda> And the rest, of course.
<jenda> Good to be back out of the RL...
<mdke> nixternal: svn revert everything?
<nixternal> im trying that now
<mdke> (--recursive)
<nixternal> its checkin'
<nixternal> mdke: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20357
<mdke> nixternal: the "xml2po: command not found" is a pretty clear indicator of what is the problem
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> i just caught that right after i posted ;)
<nixternal> hey mdke, when you get the chance, could you please knock the hell out of me?
<nixternal> i forgot i transferred over my nfs stuff today, and my installs didn't go with it ;)
<mdke> nixternal: I'd rather not...
<mdke> so, serverguide is not so bad. I'll do that, you can do packaging guide if you like
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> got it ;)
<nixternal> my apologies for the braingas
<nixternal> im gonna let this run, and log..i will tend to it in a few..i need some sleep
<nixternal> g'nite guys
<mdke> night
<nixternal> mdke: http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/translations/diffs/packagingguide.diff
<nixternal> perfecto!!
<nixternal> <600k
<mdke> nixternal: nice one, thanks
<nixternal> np
<nixternal> that was easy
<nixternal> on pt_BR and sv fixes, and both were minor
<nixternal> s/on/only
<mdke> did you do the Makefiles/packaging too (if not, no worries, I can do it)
<nixternal> arg, i can add that and send it to the list here in a bit
<nixternal> i looked at it, and held off on it, because it was a "default" makefile in that dir, and needed some loving it looks like
<mdke> nixternal: no worries, only one language, I can do it
<nixternal> rocking, thanks!
<nixternal> all translations are done now?
<mdke> nixternal: I'll commit it separately if you like, so you can see what I did
<nixternal> sure
<nixternal> that would be greate!
<nixternal> wow, my keyboard doesn't like me today
<mdke> oh, french is broken, did you see that?
<nixternal> hmm
<nixternal> it wasn't broken when i validated
<mdke> try it on your local copy
<mdke> it's empty
<nixternal> it is empty
<nixternal> ya
<mdke> I can fix that ok
<mdke> it's due to a bug in rosetta
<nixternal> lovely..ok at least i didn't break something for once ;)
<mdke> nope, keeps happening with that translation
<mdke> yeah, we're all done, to answer your earlier question
<nixternal> alrighty, on to some other projects then
<nixternal> mdke: you ever need docbook stuff worked on, msg me or what not, and if im around, i would enjoy working on it, gives me the experience
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<LaserJock> :-)
<nixternal> and knocks some rust off the old "docbook" portion of my brain
<nixternal> oh no, LaserJock is alive
<LaserJock> nixternal: want to learn debiandoc SGML?
<LaserJock> :-)
<nixternal> is it for use in Ubuntu? if not NO ;D
<LaserJock> yeah, it's for Ubuntu
<nixternal> ok then, im all ears ;)
* LaserJock thinks nixternal should know better
<nixternal> if you build it they will come
<LaserJock> hehe
<nixternal> im here, get to building ;)
<LaserJock> mdke: does bhuvan really want to make man pages out of the server guide?
<nixternal> that can be good, but i would hate to do 'man serverguide' and have to read through thousands of lines, especially since you can navigate except for the space bar
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I don't understand why he doesn't just do HTML
<nixternal> and you lynx
<nixternal> exactly
<LaserJock> there are a lot of good console web browsers
<nixternal> s/you/use
<nixternal> omg im e.tarded today
<LaserJock> and we already know how to do docbook -> HTML
<mdke> LaserJock: looks like it.
<mdke> yes, HTML might save some work, if it can be made nice and discoverable
<nixternal> LaserJock: i would respond and tell him your idea, that is the best way to go
<nixternal> pretty much all docbook -> HTML looks good in lynx from what i have seen...because we did that when I worked for Sun and converted all the enterprise books from docbook -> html and used lynx to view
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-13
<nixternal> im sittin' here lookin' at "About Kubuntu - Bon Echo Beta 1" window on Kubuntu Edgy Eft, and low and behold the default start page is all about Kubuntu Dapper ;)
<Burgundavia> nixternal: sofixit
<nixternal> oh i will ;)
<nixternal> LaserJock: ping?
<nixternal> you have 2 minutes to reply ;)
<LaserJock> whatever
<LaserJock> hehe
<nixternal> wo0t
<nixternal> give me a killer "feature" or "application" for Edubuntu...this is for the UWN
<nixternal> pick one rather
<LaserJock> hmm
<nixternal> when you figure it out, just let me or Burgundavia know ;)
<LaserJock> nixternal: as in an app installed in Edubuntu that everybody loves?
<nixternal> sure
<nixternal> and then, write up a blurb on the UWN for it ;)
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> tricked ya
<nixternal> brb
<LaserJock> well, LTSP is always good
<nixternal> food
<LaserJock> and kalzium
<nixternal> Dapper
<LaserJock> and gcompris
<Burgundavia> gcompris it is
<LaserJock> hehe, why found the Swahili translation of community manager
<LaserJock> s/why/who/
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: what issue are you working on? 9?
<Burgundavia> 9
<Burgundavia> I almost done editing
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: do you want me to do a little on the MOTU School when you are done?
<Burgundavia> I am done, go nuts LaserJock
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: ping me when you are done
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: ok, you might want to look over it
<Burgundavia> will do
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: does it look ok? not too long?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: looks good to me
<Burgundavia> crimsun: you alive?
<crimsun> hi.
<Burgundavia> crimsun: can you proof https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue9
<crimsun> (looking)
<Burgundavia> cheers
<Burgundavia> crimsun: oh, hold off just a sec
<odin_is_a_hero> any tuto foe icecast for ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> crimsun: ok, please continue
<Burgundavia> odin_is_a_hero: sorry?
<odin_is_a_hero> i need a tutorial for icecast for my server
<odin_is_a_hero> internet is poor for this kind
<Burgundavia> hmm, not that I have seen
<odin_is_a_hero> :(
<Burgundavia> crimsun: ping me when you are done
<crimsun> I had to start over because someone saved while I was editing
<crimsun> about 50% redone
<Burgundavia> oh, right
<crimsun> proofed.
<Burgundavia> crimsun: cheers
<Madpilot> Damn, those blog posts that robitalle linked to on sounder make my head hurt...
<Madpilot> best comment: "He doesn't actually tell us what Canonical doesn't want us to know...he was probably too busy making himself sound like a raving lunatic. Could these things Canonical doesn't want us to know just be a figment of his noticably screwed up imagination?"
<LaserJock> wow
<LaserJock> who are they talking about?
<Madpilot> well, the original blog post was mostly incoherant Ubuntu bashing
<Madpilot> the "he" in that commenet refers to the author of the blog
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. whats that ? which threads that Madpilot ?
* Kamping_Kaiser hasnt seen taht
<Madpilot> it's on the sounder ML, "blog post: " Ubuntu vs. Debian: What Canonical Doesn't Want You To Know " "
* Kamping_Kaiser pops in email for later amusement
<Madpilot> oh, and Burgundavia, that cartoon on your planet.u.c post is excellent ;)
<Burgundavia> indeed
<crimsun> heh, I've not ready any sounder posts
<Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser, there's two blog posts, the comment I posted is from the comments on the 2nd one
<crimsun> read, even
<Madpilot> First one: http://techanchor.blogspot.com/2006/08/stfu-ubuntu-users.html
<Madpilot> 2nd one: http://techanchor.blogspot.com/2006/08/ubuntu-vs-debian-what-canonical-doesnt.html
<crimsun> oh, I saw the former linked from linuxtoday
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. nice title on the first one. thats impartial
<crimsun> well you know it's fun to antagonise the leader
<Madpilot> it's pathetic
<Madpilot> and just for the record, I think the Ubuntu posts that make it to the top on Digg are mostly useless too ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm.(s)he hammered both of them out in one day??
<Madpilot> looks like
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, looking forward to your flight on Tuesday? You fly out of Seattle, right?
<Burgundavia> no, Victoria
<Burgundavia> good thing, given how long the lineup at security i going to be
<Madpilot> when's the flight?
<Burgundavia> 5am-ish Tuesday
<Madpilot> gah
<Madpilot> so you're going to have to be at the airport at around 5am Monday to clear security, right?
<Burgundavia> pretty much
<Burgundavia> what is the breaking point? business travellers like myself will keep travelling, but what about the other 3/4 of the travellers?
<Burgundavia> when will it reach the point that security is too burdensome?
<Burgundavia> if I was a family, I wouldn't want to be travelling right now
<Madpilot> travelling with small children + stupid security restrictions... smells like a non-starter to me
<poningru> Burgundavia: anal probes
<poningru> the point
<poningru> err wrong channel
<Madpilot> ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> rofl
<Kamping_Kaiser> another one for the qdb we dont have.
<luzi> anyone else having troubles reaching http://wiki.ubuntu.com ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> luzi, all ubuntu stuffs offline
<luzi> jeez, what happened?
<Burgundavia> life
<Burgundavia> time
<Burgundavia> the march of the universe
<Madpilot> that's very deep, but also f'ing useless
<Burgundavia> that is about anybody knowws
<luzi> it's time to read a book then, i guess :o)
<Madpilot> HHGttG :)
<luzi> i've read that one!
<dsas> for us the living? :)
<luzi> yay, it's back!
* mpt wonders if mdke_ is still asleep
<mpt> luzi, yes, the Sunday sysadmin just turned up :-)
<Burgundavia> mpt: who would that be?
<Madpilot> with his pager going berzerk, I'm sure 
<mpt> Spads
<mpt> Drat, Burgundavia, there was something I wanted to ask you about but I've forgotten what it was
<Burgundavia> mpt: I don't usually go anywhere. was with regards to GNOME or Ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> documentation? the website? the help wiki?
<mpt> Gnome, probably
<mpt> or Ubuntu
<mpt> gah, like that narrows it down at all
<mpt> The marketing team, perhaps?
<Burgundavia> which one?
<mpt> It can't have been that important
* mpt stares out at the rain
<crimsun> you'll remember when you stoop to adjust your shoelaces or something :)
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> or right when you are rushing somewhere else and cannot write it down
<mpt> iirc, you were talking about some team being dysfunctional, or something like that, and I was interested in more details but you'd gone 
<Madpilot> aren't most teams dysfuntional to one degree or another? ;)
<Burgundavia> the ubuntu marketing team being dysfunctional?
<mpt> "At least give me points for trying, the truth is I'm a Debian User, so I'm biased, and also I'm not too bright." -- ouch
<Madpilot> where is that gem from?
<crimsun> initial guess is something related to one of those two zomgUbuntuConspiracyPONIES sounder dealies
<mpt> Madpilot, from the link you pasted in here 171 minutes ago
<Madpilot> ah, crimsun guesses right ;)
<mpt> (I'm a slow reader. Also, I had breakfast.)
<mdke_> mpt: hi
<mdke_> nice weather we're having
* mdke_ goes for breakfast
<mpt> mdke_!
<mdke_> morning
<mdke_> did you get my third attempt?
<mpt> one moment...
<mdke_> bad news, I'm afraid
<mdke> mpt: I have to work today :/
<mpt> ah
<mdke> are you going to be around for a while?
<mpt> mdke, we'll be here until Thursday morning
<mpt> so maybe we can meet one evening
<mdke> yeah, I'd like that
<mpt> Don't know what we're doing Monday to Wednesday, so maybe tonight?
<mdke> hmm, during the week would be likely better for me
<Burgundavia> mpt: are you in england, you poor bastard?
<mdke> plus other-Matthew will be pretty tired, right?
<mpt> He's just turned up and he's surprisingly perky
<mpt> Burgundavia, yes, hence the rain
<Burgundavia> mpt: it does rain in NZ too
<mpt> Shush!
<Burgundavia> but I must admit, English rain is much more depressing than rain in any other country
<mdke> it's nasty here atm. mpt, I don't think I will make tonight. Let me know how you get on Mon-Wed?
<mpt> ok
<Madpilot> wiki.u.c & help.u.c both still down, evidently...
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: not for me
<mdke> works here too
<Madpilot> not here... this house's net connection has been acting stupid lately, though
<Burgundavia> mdke: working for me is a little more relevant to Madpilot
<Burgundavia> being in the same city and on the same ISP and all
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, has Shaw been fine for you, the last few days?
<Burgundavia> I  have been having issues with loss of connections
<Burgundavia> for 1 to 2 hours
<Madpilot> I had no DNS two nights ago, IRC worked perfectly but no DNS access :|
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Madpilot> night before that, I lost all connection for about 2hrs
<Burgundavia> I was wondering if someone was dos-ing ubuntu.ca, but it seems to be more widespread tha] n that
<Madpilot> when it runs, it's blazing fast, but it seems to fall over too much...
<Burgundavia> just recently
<Burgundavia> given I am running a server on the connection, I don't think I have a leg to stand on to complain
<mdke> nice work on the newsletter
<Burgundavia> thanks. Too bad jdub didn't see it that way
<mdke> hmm?
<Burgundavia> oh, he bitched at me about the jono section
<Burgundavia> said it linked his leaving with jonos arrival
<mdke> well, jono certainly isn't a replacement for him, it's a totally different role, that's right
<mdke> still, quite right to have a section about the post
<mdke> maybe you can remove the bit about Jeff
<Burgundavia> he is the only person to have mentioned it to me, so I will put it down to one of jeff's little foibles
<mdke> it's not the first time I've seen someone say that the CM is a replacement for jdub, so maybe he wants to stamp on that misunderstanding
<Burgundavia> I didn't write it as such
<Burgundavia> I was merely commenting on the arrival of one and the departure of another
<crimsun> I almost edited that section out, actually, but I didn't know the original context, so I left it
<Burgundavia> crimsun: you should have edited it
<mdke> it does give that impression, but I see what you mean
<mdke> also s/banager/manager :)
<crimsun> b/m ? that's probably my typo (dvorak and all)
<mdke> anyway, it's a small point, is a good newsletter
<Burgundavia> of course, the really key question is: was my joke funny
<Burgundavia> ?
<Madpilot> 'cat herder'?
<Burgundavia> yep
<mdke> Madpilot: your words, weren't they?
<mdke> or mpt's
<Madpilot> not directly, AFAIK
<Madpilot> blame Burgundavia for the joke, anyway ;)
<mdke> remember when the job was advertised, we were talking about it in here. Must have been mpt
<Burgundavia> might have been
<Burgundavia> I have used the term cat herder in the past and I know it is old
<mdke> yeah, it's appropriate
<Burgundavia> right. Jokes are supposed to be funny, not "appropriate"
<Madpilot> I remember the chat in here about the job announcement, but can't remember who made the cat herding comment - might have been me
<mdke> funny then
* Burgundavia gives up
* mdke starts the laborious task of sewing his sides back together
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: you busy tomorrow?
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, working 4-8 @ VFC, other than that, no
<Burgundavia> can you upgrade ubuntucanada?
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, to Dapper?
<Burgundavia> yep
<mdke> is it on a serverpronto server?
<Burgundavia> I willb e around to fix anything locally
<Burgundavia> mdke: no, it is in my basement
<mdke> ah, fine
<mdke> they don't boot with dapper :/
<Burgundavia> oh, fun
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, sure, I'll do it sometime in the morning/early afternoon. Hopefully won't take long & won't screw up ;)
<Burgundavia> the server is an old grey box that used to be my step mother's desktop
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSoundsFull <-- unintentionally funny page name
<Madpilot> it's a much happier grey box now that Win98 is no longer inflicted on it
<Madpilot> mdke, do those new doc translations need covers for Lulu>
<Madpilot> ?
<Burgundavia> night all
<mdke> Madpilot: there are a couple, I think.
<Madpilot> mdke, OK, I'll do them in the next couple of days, and send you the URLs to the images
<mdke> Madpilot: thanks a lot :)
<Madpilot> np
<mdke> lloydinho: did you mean to mail your meeting email just to me?
<atom_> Where can I find documentation about preseed installation?
<lloydinho> mdke: No. Sorry
<lloydinho> I'll send it again to the list.
<lloydinho> I see that a "Reply to List" function will be available in Thunderbird soon, that will be helpful.
<lloydinho> http://www.asoftsite.org/s9y/archives/114-thunderbird-+-reply-to-list-...-here-it-comes.html
<mdke> rock
<dsas> hmm, upstream mozilla has had that patch (and an extension I think) and just sat on it...
<dsas> oh, targeted to thunderbird 3.0
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-06
<oldmanstan> nixternal: when you get a moment, what are the valid values for 'status' in the section tags? and how important is it that they be accurate?
<nixternal> status="draft" for the time being
<oldmanstan> ok cool
<nixternal> you don't really have to worry about status, last I knew we weren't running a status report on our xml...but that could have changed and I don't know
<oldmanstan> alright, i'll just make them all draft, thanks
<Admiral_Chicago> I do draft so I know what sections I need to work on still
<oldmanstan> yeah, i was thinking it would be helpful to the editor at least as much as anyone else
<oldmanstan> another question (sorry)... is there a tag for radio buttons and/or checkboxes (like <guibutton>)?
<oldmanstan> the tags list on the wiki is a tad sparse it would seem
<Admiral_Chicago> hmm, I don't know actually
<mpt> oldmanstan, you want to insert radio buttons and checkboxes in a help page?
<oldmanstan> mpt: no, i want to tag text as being for a radio button, like how button clicks are tagged with <guibutton> or menu items are <guimenuitem>
<mpt> oldmanstan, you can just use <guilabel> for that
<mpt> There's no useful difference between <guilabel>, <guibutton>, <guimenuitem>, and <guimenu> that I know of
<mpt> They all end up as bold :-)
<oldmanstan> ahh, gotcha :)
<mpt> Hopefully that's something that the Mallard format will fix
<oldmanstan> mallard format?
<mpt> http://live.gnome.org/ProjectMallard#head-94829758a047378be6c8e5dff55fbd4695682eb8
<oldmanstan> oooh, that looks lovely
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4209 ubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: Changed wording of 'Playing DVDs' to correct error (towards #28596)
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4210 ubuntu/internet/C/ (connecting.xml networking.xml web-apps.xml): Fix validation error in internet.xml (whoops)
<ubotu> New bug: #130680 in ubuntu-doc "nvu (NVU Web Authoring System) no longer available in the repositories" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130680
<ubotu> New bug: #130684 in ubuntu-doc "Adding extra repositories needs slight touch up." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130684
<nixternal> that is because Nvu is no more...the devs jumped ship to Mozilla to work on Composer, and the ones who hated that idea started KomPozer based off of the last Nvu snapshot
<dako> test
<oldmanstan> j1mc: i sent a printers patch to the listserv but i'm not sure it arrived, is it ok to send compressed files? i was thinking after i sent it that it might get stripped
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-07
<j1mc> oldmanstan: you still around?
<j1mc> i saw that you left a patch, but i haven't had time to look at it yet.  i was away this weekend, and then had to work today.
<j1mc> oldmanstan: sending the regular "diff" file is ok.  you don't need to compress it.
<oldmanstan> j1mc: oh ok thanks, i just wanted to be sure the listserv didn't strip the compressed file, i won't bother next time
<j1mc> np  :)  thanks.
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r4211 ubuntu/internet/C/web-apps.xml:
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation: Patch by: Dawid van Wyngaard <dawid@i-services.co.za>
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation: * ubuntu/internet/C/web-apps.xml
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation:  Add instructions for subscribing to RSS feeds.
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r4212 ubuntu/misc/partitioning.xml: Xml validation fix.
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r4213 ubuntu/misc/config-desktop.xml:
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation: Validation fix. Point to correct help page using ulink tag instead of
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation: xref tag.
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation: * ubuntu/misc/config-desktop.xml
<CIA-19> Ubuntu Documentation:  Fix reference to "Add Applications" section.
<popey> hmm, just seen the announcement about the docteam server :S
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2007-August/001506.html
<nixternal> well that explains everything
<LaserJock> has mdke been around?
<nixternal> yesterday
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-08
<LaserJock> mpt: you around?
<mpt> LaserJock, yo
<LaserJock> mpt: I've been thinking about your thread on the Help System
<LaserJock> perhaps the doc team needs to clarify it's purpose and scope
<LaserJock> and also maybe come up with a list of topics we want to see
<LaserJock> I'm wondering if it's a free-for-all we end up with documentation on just the things the writers were interested in
<LaserJock> like how developers tend to keep the packages they like in better shape :-)
<mpt> LaserJock, I was hoping that by now we'd be getting lists of search.ubuntu.com search queries people were doing, and be able to add/restructure help to answer those
<mpt> but I guess it'll be a while before that happens
<LaserJock> yes, I guess I would really like to see some sort of study done
<LaserJock> or at least a decent survey or something
<LaserJock> for one I'd like to know how much people use the system help
<LaserJock> and the times they do, what are the looking for
<mpt> yes
<LaserJock> I suppose your search.ubuntu.com would address those?
<mpt> well, not really
<LaserJock> mmm
<mpt> unless we also had a reliable count of the number of Ubuntu users
<mpt> because that would be the denominator in the equation
<LaserJock> well, I'd think even ball-park would work
<LaserJock> mpt: does it know what IP made the request?
<LaserJock> so that we can know if it's a few people that search a lot or a lot of people that search a little?
<mpt> In theory it could, sure
<mpt> just like any other Web site
<mpt> Are you running Gutsy?
<LaserJock> mpt: I am at home
<nixternal> so am I
<LaserJock> nixternal: do you have yelp?
<nixternal> umm, I do, but the system that has vbox is currently in my lap torn apart
<LaserJock> I just wondered
<LaserJock> we got a new upstream yelp like yesterday
<LaserJock> and it looks to me like all the frontpage work got wiped out
<mpt> LaserJock, when you click the "Repeat the search" link at the bottom of search results, what URL do you get?
<mpt> (disregarding that the URL doesn't load)
<LaserJock> well, it's segfaulting right now
<LaserJock> so I can't test right now
<mpt> heh, ok
<LaserJock> I can try it again when I get home
<LaserJock> but at least over ssh it just segfaults after it can't find any documentation
<LaserJock> mpt: home now
<LaserJock> mpt: and joy of joys, yelp crashes if you search
<mpt> w00t
<mpt> LaserJock, does it fare any better if you temporarily uninstall Tracker?
<LaserJock> hmm, not sure
<LaserJock> mpt: no, that didn't seem to do anything
<LaserJock> mpt: I was thinking it was something to do with scrollkeeper being removed, but I'm not sure how that would affect the search
<ubotu> New bug: #131045 in ubuntu-doc "Change computer name page refers to Networking" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131045
<CryptoMole> hello
<CryptoMole> im george i recently joined the docs project
<ubotu> New bug: #131076 in kubuntu-docs (main) ""Flash is not installed" at the end of the "Installing flash" -guide (Kubuntu docs)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131076
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4215 ubuntu/administrative/C/administrative.xml: Changed structure and updated content
<jjesse> oh i thought doc.ubuntu was down
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4216 ubuntu/keeping-safe/C/keeping-safe.xml: Applying mpt's patch, with some minor changes
<nixternal> jjesse: it is all back up now
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-09
<oldmanstan> j1mc: any suggestions on what i should work on next in the xubuntu docs now that printing has made progress?
<oldmanstan> applications.xml needs updating it would seem, at least for gutsy since gaim is pidgin now
<fijam_> oldmanstan, have a look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation/Assignments
<fijam_> pick one and start digging, if in doubt email either j1mc, Admiral_Chicaco, me or ubuntu-doc
<fijam_> it's 1AM here and I feel rather sleepy. see you.
<oldmanstan> thanks!
<oldmanstan> in the office.xml doc do we want to mention stuff like the fact that gnome office may run faster than OOo?
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> sounds like a personal opinion
<oldmanstan> haha, a personal opinion with a wealth of anecdotal evidence, but yes, a personal opinion
<oldmanstan> i wasn't suggesting stating it as a fact though, only as a suggestion, sorta like how xubuntu itself is suggested for people with low-end hardware
<nixternal> making it a suggestion makes the documentation feel personalized..we don't want that
<nixternal> I am currently going through a ton of KDE docs where developers thought they could document
<nixternal> I am seeing documents with :), LOL, HAHA, and what else in it
<nixternal> and don't use "I"
<oldmanstan> ok, so we're aiming professional, that's cool, just a curiosity
<oldmanstan> another question: are we leaving the "add application" links? they don't seem to work
<oldmanstan> j1
<oldmanstan> oops...
<oldmanstan> j1mc: thunder was just to make it shorter, some of the others are shortened like that, should i change them? or is short ok?
* oldmanstan reminds himself that tab completes nicks, enter sends messages
<Admiral_laptop> oldmanstan: whats the question
<oldmanstan> the most recent one was about a patch, i made a section id "thunder" instead of "thunderbird" b/c it was shorter
<oldmanstan> some of the others in the doc already were like this, i wanted to see if i should change all of them
<oldmanstan> the question before that was whether we should leave "add application" links in the docs, when i open them in yelp the links dont work so i wasn't sure if maybe they only worked in ubuntu or something
<Admiral_laptop> change all of them
<Admiral_laptop> oldmanstan: its a problem with the linking i think
<Admiral_laptop> i'll have to look at it a bit more some other time
<oldmanstan> ok, i'll just leave them for now then
<oldmanstan> rather than possibly reinventing the wheel
<oldmanstan> i'll change the ids though
<Admiral_laptop> okay
<Admiral_laptop> hiya jjesse
<jjesse> hiya Admiral_laptop
<Admiral_laptop> oldmanstan: looks like a question for the doc lit
<Admiral_laptop> list
<Admiral_laptop> like we need more email in our boxes...
<bodhizazen> Is this the channel to send folks interested in the mentoring program ?
<Admiral_laptop> yes
<Admiral_laptop> this is the perfect channel for that bodhizazen
<bodhizazen> \o/
<bodhizazen> OK I may make a few referrals ...
<Admiral_laptop> great
<bodhizazen> I am also interested, but I am too pressed for time at the moment ...
<bodhizazen> Do you have a quick link for the program ? I know I saw it, but I did not book mark it :(
<Admiral_laptop> i don't...sorry
<bodhizazen> OK, I can find ...
<bodhizazen> It is impressive to see the interest in the program \o/
<Admiral_laptop> me too
<Admiral_laptop> it was nuts
<bodhizazen> s/was/is
<bodhizazen> I think it is a good idea :
<bodhizazen> 1. There is an interest on the forums, but there is a learning curve to wiki
<bodhizazen> 2. good to build a core of reliable people in order to divide and conquer the material ...
<Admiral_laptop> yea we have a lot of people looking at the docs now. we need to have people assigned to specific tasks
<Admiral_laptop> the wikis need a lot of love too
<bodhizazen> Yea, I am giving a few wiki pages a little love ...
<bodhizazen> I have my eye on the grub page, I would like to add some simplified information near the top, a "quick fix" kind of thing as I think the document intimidates new users
<Admiral_laptop> bodhizazen: you mean grub pages
<Admiral_laptop> there are like a 6 of them, i just looked at them today
<bodhizazen> I was thinking of the restore grub after windows page ...
<bodhizazen> sorry about that ...
<Admiral_laptop> i know, but a lot of them have the same info
<bodhizazen> I would respectfully suggest the restore grub after windows page be simplified, moving some of that information on that page to other or pages or more advanced grub pages, but that is just me
<Admiral_laptop> i agree
<j1mc> oldmanstan: sorry, i was away
<bodhizazen> OK, I added a "quick start" section to this grub page : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<robotgeek> bodhizazen: good work, could you maybe add a sentence or two explaining that it is okay to overwrite your windows boot loader?
<bodhizazen> sure, np
<bodhizazen> thank you for reviewing my work
<robotgeek> bodhizazen: i was scared for a second after reading that, it took me a second or two to realize that it is okay!
* bodhizazen rests the urge to incite world domination wahahahaha
<bodhizazen> Better now ?
<robotgeek> heh
<robotgeek> well, typos seem to be a lost cause. i have been theu 2 documents, and not one error.
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: robotgeek * r4217 kubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: Added digikam section
<robotgeek> well, ty CIA-32
<robotgeek> wohoo, my last commit was on Wed, 13 Sep 2006. Almost a year. It is good to be back!
<nixternal> and it is even better for me that you are back :)
* robotgeek reads https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/Tribe4/Kubuntu 
<robotgeek> you posted in -devel :)
<nixternal> and jjesse as well, although he was busy for Feisty with the book, and I seem to have gotten him addicted to working with KDE now
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> these people are all Gnome'ites, that's why
<robotgeek> i try to use gnome from time to time, but i always end up coming back to kde.
<robotgeek> i'm pushing my work place to do new developments in qt4 and python (we'll probably buy a license)
<nixternal> sweet...but to buy a license means you aren't doing the open source thing :)
<robotgeek> nixternal: well, our customers get the code if you buy the 90K machine that goes with it
<nixternal> holy smokes
<robotgeek> my company builds testers, and I write almost all of the code on it. from firmware to gui
<robotgeek> i make it a point to give them the code (it is mostly written in Labview)
<robotgeek> they usually dont care
<robotgeek> nixternal: well, the release notes seem nice. thanks!
<nixternal> why thank you
<robotgeek> i have moved 5 people in my workplace including the company president to Firefox and Thunderbird.
<nixternal> Konqi and Kontact! :)
<nixternal> although, if you use IMAP, stay away from Kontact/KMail
<robotgeek> well, it is still a windows only shop mostly. and doing tech support takes time away from "real" projects
<ubotu> New bug: #131284 in ubuntu-docs (main) "about ubuntu menu item results in page not found" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131284
<tck> is there anyone in charge or canonical website bugs?
<tck> s/or/of/
<nixternal> Matthew Nuzum is his name...
<tck> so all bugs get assigned to him ?
<nixternal> if they are website bugs they do
<LaserJock> anybody running Ubuntu gutsy?
<pebkac> yes LaserJock
<LaserJock> can you load up Gnome Help?
<pebkac> what? system --> help and support  ?
<LaserJock> yep
<pebkac> nope
<pebkac> fails to start
<LaserJock> blah
<popey> manually starting yelp works
<LaserJock> are you dist-upgraded?
<popey> takes an age
<popey> looks like trackerd is killing my system
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> what a mess
<popey> ahh, it did start eventually
<popey> sorry
<popey> ok, killing that, now System --> Help & Support works
<LaserJock> k, that's about right
<LaserJock> now the main page
<LaserJock> is it all Gnome stuff?
<popey> how do you mean?
<LaserJock> like Gnome User Guide, etc.
<popey> desktop user guide
<popey> gnome 2.14 desktop accessibility guide
<LaserJock> k, yep
<LaserJock> try to do a search
* popey searches for totem
<popey> apport 100% cpu
<LaserJock> hehe, it crashed?
<popey> yup
<LaserJock> ok, one last thing
<LaserJock> try System-> About Ubuntu
<popey> one mo, sending report
<LaserJock> heh, you actually use that thing? ;-)
<popey> someone has to :)
<popey> ah, already reported, good
<popey> right, System --> About ubuntu
<popey> page not found
<LaserJock> ok, thanks
<LaserJock> that confirms everything I've seen
<popey> no problem
<LaserJock> i.e. Yelp has lost our front page modifications, segfaults on search, and can't find Ubuntu documentation (reason why the front page is messed up I imagine)
<popey> bug 131284 i guess ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131284 in ubuntu-docs "about ubuntu menu item results in page not found" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131284
<ubotu> New bug: #131366 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Missing a space on string 47 of musicvideoandfotos" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131366
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4218 kubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml:
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: Add space after audacity
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: LP: #131366
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-10
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<Webfun> where can i find the ubuntu source code
<Webfun> ?
<tristanbob> anyone running Gutsy want to confirm a bug?
<tristanbob> Places > Search for files > Help
<IR4> Hi all
<popey> tristanbob: it crashes
<popey> oh, no my bad, it just can't find the help file
<tristanbob> yeah same here
<tristanbob> thanks popey
<tristanbob> what is that tool?  is it called tracker?
<popey> yelp is the help tool
<popey> which has the problem
<popey> i believe it is known - someone asked me much the same question yesterday
<tristanbob> gnome-search-tool
<tristanbob> I want to search for an existing bug
<tristanbob> but which package?
<nixternal> popey: LaserJock did :)
<popey> thassim
<nixternal> hehe
<tristanbob> I searched but could not find a similar bug - I am creating one
<popey> why create it against the search tool - its the help thats at fault
<popey> i understand they imported a load of help from gnome or something
<popey> so search under the package yelp
<tristanbob> I will search yelp first
<tristanbob> I would expect the help data is packaged with the app though
<tristanbob> right? or wrong
<tristanbob> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-utils/+bug/131599
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131599 in gnome-utils "Click on "Help" in gnome-search-tool, can't find help data" [Undecided,New] 
<tristanbob> bug filed
<tristanbob> I think it might just be a small type
<tristanbob> does this URL look correct?
<tristanbob> ghelp:///usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-search-tool/C/gnome-search-tool.xml
<tristanbob> it looks like an extra forward slash
<tristanbob> because the file really does exist in that location
<nixternal> /// == local file
<tristanbob> well I'll be darned
<tristanbob> anyway, it is still a bug, just not what I thought it was :)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-11
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
(robotgeek/#ubuntu-doc) they go to the main section, not to the direct entry. was that intentional?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<robotgeek> okay, this is weird. i think i am seeing feisty documentation, not gutsy (help:/kubuntu links to feisty)
<robotgeek> nixternal: any ideas on a workaround?
<nixternal> sorry...where is this located?
<nixternal> don't worry about the index..I am going to rewrite it on Sunday
<robotgeek> nixternal: after you build the thing, when you click the links, i think it goes to the feisy documentation (on my system)
<nixternal> it should go to whatever is in /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/*
<nixternal> oh
<robotgeek> right, how do we preview then?
<nixternal> ya ya
<nixternal> the links in the index are type="help" links...
<nixternal> so ya they would go to your feisty docs if you are on feisty
<nixternal> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/doc_name/C
<nixternal> replace doc_name with the doc you want to look at
<robotgeek> oh okay. that works
<nixternal> I am not to worried about the website docs just yet
<robotgeek> nixternal: i was trying to preview the docs, ended up seeing the feisty docs
<nixternal> hehe
<aneb> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal #  Note that if you are using mv with sudo you will not be able to use the ~ shortcut, but will have to use the full pathnames to your files. This is because when you are working as root, ~ will refer to the root account's home directory, not your own.
<aneb> that's wrong. ~ is expanded by the shell as a shortcut.
<aneb> to /home/$USER
<aneb> checking...
<aneb> kyle@kyle-laptop:~$ touch a b
<aneb> kyle@kyle-laptop:~$ ls -l a
<aneb> -rw-r--r-- 1 kyle kyle 0 2007-08-11 08:19 a
<aneb> kyle@kyle-laptop:~$ ls -l b
<aneb> -rw-r--r-- 1 kyle kyle 0 2007-08-11 08:19 b
<aneb> kyle@kyle-laptop:~$ sudo rm ~/a
<aneb> kyle@kyle-laptop:~$ sudo rm ~/b
<aneb> and both commands work.
<aneb> i hope i have proved you wrong
<aneb> but if you do something like this:
<aneb> sudo -i
<aneb> and use ~ there, then ~ in the root shell refers to /root
<Kingskid> Hi! I just got a question concerning Handbook for Edubuntu: Will there be some big changes in the content? I'd like to take some time to translate it into Czech but don't really want to work on it and later find out that it was in vain. Thanx!
<mpt> aneb, if you could fix the page that would be excellent
<aneb> everyone, ping.
<fijam> pong
<aneb> mpt: i have fixed the page
<mpt> aneb, cool, thanks
* aneb fishes mpt out of the water. "hello? i need your help!" 
<aneb> mpt?
<aneb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VMwarePlayerAndQemu # should this be fixed for a update?
<mpt> aneb, I suggest contacting the authors <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VMwarePlayerAndQemu?action=info> and asking them if they're ok licensing it under the CC BY-SA
<mpt> If they are, it can be moved to help.ubuntu.com where more people will see it.
<mpt> If most of it is obsolete, then you could start your own replacement page on help.ubuntu.com instead.
<aneb> mpt: i see 7 authors, 3 don't have a wiki page. how do i contact these 3?
<mpt> aneb, http://launchpad.net/people
<mpt> search for their name, and you should find contact details of some sort
<mpt> (Relicensing is a pain :-/ )
<aneb> mpt: i see 4 profiles on a search
<aneb> https://launchpad.net/~manhinli # the one who edited the page
<aneb> no contact details
<aneb> okay, no contact details for this name at all, i'll move on temporarily and if the other 2 can be found and say OK (along with the 5 people), i'll move it there. but as of now, i think  that most of it is obsolete. but i will try this first because this page seems useful
<mpt> If manhinli = JamesLi, then that's ok, the change is tiny
<mpt> you could revert back to v55, then move it
<aneb> mpt: why v55
<mpt> the one just before JamesLi changed it
<aneb> oh right ok
<aneb> reverted, i'll move after rest OKs things
<mpt> you're a star
* mpt heads bedwards
<aneb> really? ;-)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-12
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<mdke_> morning all
<robotgeek> morning mdke_ , been a while
<mdke_> hiya robotgeek; nice to see you again
<robotgeek> mdke_: yeah, finally found time. things are settling down :)
<mdke_> good to have you back :)
<robotgeek> getting back slowly, a wiki here and a small commit there :)
<nixternal> ## KUBUNTU DOCUMENTATION IN EFFECT ##
<nixternal> so if you are planning on working on anything (jjesse and robotgeek), let me know..I am working on the Internet section right now
<nixternal> adding "Chat Clients"
<nixternal> is it OK to tell a user to add the medibuntu repos for some of the codecs that aren't available in our repos?
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4219 kubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml:
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: Added chat client section (LP: #129327)
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: Cleaned up some sections, note for amd64 users
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4220 kubuntu/about-kubuntu/C/about-kubuntu.xml: added more Linux info websites (LP: #107062)
<robotgeek> nixternal: no, i am not planning to work on anything today. i will work on reading and reviewing tomorrow
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4221 kubuntu/about-kubuntu/C/about-kubuntu.xml: prepare about-kubuntu for LiveCD launch (LP: #125325)
<nixternal> robotgeek: cool...is there anything you can think of we need to fix or get into before I release the package today?
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4222 kubuntu/libs/kde.ent: update libs
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4223 kubuntu/about-kubuntu/C/about-kubuntu.xml: updates to about-kubuntu
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4224 kubuntu/about-kubuntu/C/about-kubuntu.xml: updates to about-kubuntu
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4225 kubuntu/about-kubuntu/C/about-kubuntu.xml: cleaning up, moving around, and throwing out
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-04
<technomensch> I essentially am looking for an extra pair of hands to help out
<technomensch> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported
<duncan-nz> anyone watching?
<wallan> watching what? just arrived.
<duncan-nz> just seeing if anyone is actually reading this at the moment?
<duncan-nz> guess you are then.
<duncan-nz> Do you know how I can get someone to look into a problem I have with receiving emails from ubuntu-doc?
<duncan-nz> I've tried everything I can think of but I just don't get them.
<wallan> strange. i've never had a problem with the ubuntu-doc list.
<duncan-nz> My guess is that my address bounced too often at one time, so now it's blocked. But I tried a different address and still got nothing. Any ideas or should I just open a question at LP?
<wallan> nothing I can think of, other than trying a fresh account with the mail server.
<mdke> duncan-nz: writing to the mailing list admins is usually the best solution
<mdke> duncan-nz: but I will look now, what's your address?
<duncan-nz> thanks matt. I've now done that.
<duncan-nz> dlithgow at gmail deleteme
<mdke> ah
<mdke> duncan-nz: your account looks fine. The only options set are "nodupes" and "plain"
<duncan-nz> mdke, that's what i don't understand - it should be working!
<mdke> hmm.
<mdke> anything in your spam? Otherwise you'll need to ask in #canonical-sysadmin
<mdke> gtg for now
<duncan-nz> thx
<mdke> nixternal: around?
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> getting ready to head home from work though
<mdke> nixternal: i'm just trying to see if doc.ubuntu.com is updating nicely - kubuntu isn't, should I be looking in the "kubuntu" or the "kubuntu-kde4" folder?
<nixternal> kubuntu-kde4..I will have to take a look at it this week and see why it isn't, unless you want to look at it
<mdke> kde3, I mean, sorry
<nixternal> just check out kubuntu
<nixternal> that is where the new docs will go anyways
<mdke> nixternal: it builds ok from the kubuntu-kde3 folder, the kubuntu folder doesn't have a Makefile. But I was expecting the branch to be organised in the same way as the other derivatives, and it isn't - you haven't gone through the same folder restructure we did at the beginning of the cycle
<mdke> I'll update doc.ubuntu.com to build from the kubuntu-kde3 folder for now
<nixternal> k
 * nixternal heads home
<mdke> thx
<nixternal> no prob..I will look into our repo this week though
<nixternal> have a nice evening!
<mdke> you too
<mdke> nixternal: when you have a chance, have a look at the restructure we've done on ubuntu-intrepid, xubuntu-intrepid and edubuntu-intrepid, it's much simpler now and it would be great to have kubuntu with the same structure too.
<mdke> nixternal: reference is https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2008-April/010612.html
<mdke> hmm, seems edubuntu didn't do it either, I could have sworn it was done
 * mdke makes a mental note to ping laserjock
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-05
<jjesse> nixternal: in the kubuntu-docs intrepid branch do we even need the kubuntu-kde3 folder?
<nixternal> jjesse: I would say no....mdke and I talked yesterday about restructuring them like everyone else. If you want to take a look at that, go ahead, otherwise I can do it here in a bit
<jjesse> nixternal: you can i'm just starting to poke againat the docs
<nixternal> ok, I will work on that later on then
<nixternal> right now I am working on restructuring our Yum server at work
<flaccid> whats the future of kubuntu documentation? how can i point users in #kubuntu to the doco they need specific to kubuntu ?
<jjesse> flaccid: what do you mean by that?
<jjesse> it gets updated every release
<nixternal> they can wait for kde4 docs
<jjesse> official ubuntu book uses kde4
<flaccid> its mainly ubuntu/gnome doco
<jjesse> chapter 7 is kubuntu-kde4
<nixternal> hrmm, seems that the docs I had on the web page are not there now after the site upgrade
<nixternal> looks like I will have to get those back up eventually
<flaccid> jjesse: link please
<nixternal> amazon.com :P
<nixternal> feed the starving artists :)
<nixternal> err, authors
<jjesse> too bad we don't get a cut of each sale
<flaccid> im not sure. i want to make a brief site map on the kubuntu doco
<brousch> jjesse, why not?
<jjesse> brousch: we got a one time payment
<nixternal> brousch: not part of the deal unfortunately
<flaccid> if im a kubuntu user, what is the link for the doco ?
<jjesse> agreed
<jjesse> help.ubuntu.com
<nixternal> flaccid: help:/kubuntu
<flaccid> thats ubuntu, not kubuntu, it gives instructions that are not in kubuntu
<nixternal> in konqueror
<jjesse> http://www.amazon.com/Official-Ubuntu-Book-Benjamin-Mako/dp/0137136684/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217945331&sr=8-1
<nixternal> it is the same documentation...every user has the documentation installed locally on their machine
<jjesse> flaccid: at help.ubuntu.com you shold be able to access the same documetnation that is in the khelpcenter
<flaccid> nixternal: unfortunately not many if any users in #kubuntu know this
<nixternal> there is also Help in KMenu
<jjesse> do they not click on Help?
<nixternal> same docs
<nixternal> except for KDE 4...there aren't any Kubuntu KDE4 docs yet
<jjesse> flaccid: btw feel free to help write the docs
<flaccid> nixternal: that url returns:  There is no documentation available for /kubuntu.
<brousch> Maybe they are used to Microsoft's unhelpful Help sections
<jjesse> what version of kubuntu are you using?
<flaccid> they are used to URLs on the web.
<flaccid> im on hardy
<nixternal> KDE3 or KDE4?
<jjesse> kde3 or  kde4
<flaccid> kde3 atm
<jjesse> there are no kde4 docs
<flaccid> people want kubuntu specific doco which doesn't exist
<jjesse> there are specific kde 3 kubuntu documentation
<flaccid> well so people want nvidia video driver, the factoid is !nvidia and they get https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto which is not kubuntu at all
<nixternal> help:/kubuntu/index/
<nixternal> hrmm, dunno why that changed
<flaccid> this difference in environements has never been catered for
<jjesse> mdke: is there a way to add the kubuntu docs to help.ubuntu.com?
<flaccid> nixternal: doesn't matter, not many people in the community know about it or use it..
<nixternal> there is still Help in KMenu
<jjesse> so you could start to change it
<flaccid> the help is crap.
<jjesse> either update the page for kubuntu or provide a new link for kubuntu
<nixternal> there is google, there is help.ubuntu.com/community, and plenty of blogs out there
<jjesse> flaccid: the help is written by nixternal and myself so watch out
<flaccid> jjesse: im aware of that :)
<jjesse> and if you odn't like the current help documents you can start writing them as well
<nixternal> and if they have nvidia, there is this utility called jockey that lets you know in kicker that proprietary drivers are available
<duncan-nz> jjesse, there's a bit more to it than that
<flaccid> jjesse: i started writing them about a year ago or so
<jjesse> duncan-nz: explain?
<flaccid> nixternal: update  it then
<nixternal> hrmm
 * nixternal goes back to real work
 * flaccid yawns
<duncan-nz> jjesse, the distance from having something to contribute to ubuntu documentation and actually doing it is quite complex.
<flaccid> nixternal: if i was to ask you where the kubuntu official documentation was, where would you tell it it would be ?
<nixternal> KMenu -> Help
<jjesse> duncan-nz: really?  you look at a document, email the maling list on a problem and it gets changed
<jjesse> or you checkout the source and then change it yourself
<jjesse> when istarted doing doucmentation i didn't know poop about docbook
<nixternal> file a bug, write the docs yourself, fix the docs yourself and send us a patch...very easy
<flaccid> nixternal: ok. thats an uncontextual load of ****
<nixternal> we had about 20 people who had never written a doc before, never coded before, join up a couple of months back and rocked out on docs..so it isn't all that complex
<flaccid> but thanks the same
<jjesse> when i started kubuntu docs i emailedthe mailing list and that was it
<jjesse> then i started looking at the source and following what it looked lke
<jjesse> its not that complicated
<jjesse> trust me i did it
<nixternal> flaccid: your attitude isn't what I feel like dealing with today...if you don't like the docs, help fix them, otherwise don't bitch about it and ask me stupid ass questions, because all you do is piss me off and make me not give two shits about you or your document issues that you and only you have
<flaccid> just fyi, i've never in my long history helped a user consult kmenu -> help. doesnt that say something ?
<duncan-nz> (... sorry watching the wrong channel)
<nixternal> on that note, have a nice day...I have better things to do
<flaccid> nixternal: i have normal users complain regularly, so its not me, its the community...
<jjesse> flaccid: that sems silly to me
<flaccid> silly?
<nixternal> bugs.launchpad.net...if they can't file a bug, then they are to stupid to use a computer
<jjesse> to never look at kmenu -> help
<jjesse> its right there
<nixternal> done.forRead();
<flaccid> and its confusing as!!
<duncan-nz> flaccid, try telling me about you're gripes if you like.
<jjesse> i guess i don't understand why someone wouldn't look at "help"
<jjesse> its right there
<duncan-nz> We might have something in common ;-)
<flaccid> because people are people...
<flaccid> their behaviour is not what what we desire usually
<jjesse> if no one is going to look at help why should i waste time writing it then
<flaccid> lets not assume people are smarter than we think
<flaccid> jjesse: because people like me have valuable input
<duncan-nz> jjesse, it's prpobably not in line with the coc but I've always had the policy of remembering what my dad told me "never underestimate the human potential for stupidity and irrational behaviour"
<jjesse> duncan-nz: i realize tha
<brousch> Due to past experience, people are used to the Help menu being a confusing, unhelpful maze. It will take time for them to realize that it really is useful now.
<flaccid> brousch: i agree.
<duncan-nz> just a moment, son calling.
<jjesse> how complicated is the help system?
<brousch> I know that I always hit Google or wiki.ubuntu.com first when I have a question.
<flaccid> a URI is also important
<brousch> This is because I had never found the answer to my question in the help system, so I learned to just skip it.
<jjesse> brousch: so we need to make the docs better
<duncan-nz> (back)
<flaccid> the help:// system is lax
<brousch> jjesse, No, we need to let people know that the Help menu is actually helpful now
<jjesse> flaccid: so how are you going to make help:// better?
<flaccid> well i find the help menu very confusing and im an advanced user
<flaccid> jjesse: im not.
<jjesse> so you aregoing to complain about it but not help improve it/
<duncan-nz> brousch, I don't agree that the help menu is better, unless we're talking about intrepid, which IU haven't checked out.
<flaccid> i offered my idea about a year ago and it was rejected s yeah
<flaccid> i offered, can't do more than that...
<duncan-nz> flaccid, wrong - an offer is not enough in Open Source.
<jjesse> agrred
<flaccid> duncan-nz: it was according to the mailing list
<brousch> duncan-nz, I actually haven't looked at it. I was just assuming that it is better based on jjesse's and nixternal's comments
<flaccid> nixternal didn't like it at all because the system was 'topic' based
<flaccid> well sorry the current system was 'topic' based so an authoritive manual was not needed or some shiz..
<duncan-nz> all, I think that the whole docs structure needs a good strong dose of research.
<jjesse> the topic based change was a large discussion
<flaccid> well 1 definitive document would be enough but yeah
<jjesse> and a lot of thought and effort when into the decision
<duncan-nz> How do various people search for help, and how do we/you refplact that best in doc structure.
<jjesse> and that decisoin was made for both ubuntu-docs and kubuntu-docs
<flaccid> and the result is.....
<jjesse> topic based help
<duncan-nz> jjesse, I'm not talking about thought and effort and time, but actual research (I feel a blueprint comming on)
<jjesse> sorry work is calling and need to get something done today
<duncan-nz> ok
<flaccid> kubuntu users geneally dont' even know about help:// let alone try to search it....
<jjesse> post to the maling list
<duncan-nz> jjesse, I'm having trouble getting mails at the mo, but working on it.
<jjesse> duncan-nz: i will look forward to commenting on it :)
<flaccid> i'll just keep writing my book
<jjesse> anyways back to lurker mode :)
<duncan-nz> flaccid, what book?
<flaccid> duncan-nz: a decent book on kubuntu. i offered it to the project a year or so ago, but they were not interested.
<duncan-nz> is it LGPL'ed?
<flaccid> it doesn't have a licence yet
<flaccid> nor is it released. but i always want to help kubuntu but its always a problem
<duncan-nz> I see. Is there any reason not to throw it online somewhere?
<flaccid> duncan-nz: yes because the idea was rejected
<flaccid> its in the mailing list archives...
<duncan-nz> sorry for my ignorance, but how does that stop you putting it online?
<flaccid> it was rejected so i chose a different option for publishing
<flaccid> "i offered, can't do more than that..."
<duncan-nz> I'm not sure that you've answered my question. What's the barrier to putting it online. Do you need somewhere to put it?
<flaccid> no i own servers. i won't put it online because of principle. i offered it to the project and it was rejected so i went my own way
<duncan-nz> principles? oh. do you mean pride?
<flaccid> its in readiness for a stable kde 4.xx ..
<duncan-nz> (son's nappy calling)
<flaccid> not in this case. i have to wait for kde 4 to get up to a decent level..
<flaccid> np
<flaccid> i offered this to ubuntu/kubuntu before i started authoring.
<duncan-nz> (did I mention it was a crappy nappy?)
<duncan-nz> flaccid, have you written down somewhere what you think is wrong with the current documentation?
<brousch> duncan-nz, Is a nappie a diaper? I thought you were putting your kid down for a short sleep (nap).
<duncan-nz> diaper (us) = nappy (uk)
<duncan-nz> I couldn't get him to take a nap today. So he's playing next to me.
<brousch> darn that Queen's English
<duncan-nz> three years old
<brousch> duncan-nz, Is he hacking on edubuntu yet?
<duncan-nz> brousch, no, but my wife jokes about it. He has an old IBM laptop which runs windows 3.1 though. I'm not a fan of children using computers early.
<brousch> Windows 3.1? Are you trying to frustrate him into hating computers?
<emmajane> duncan-nz: at least say it's 3.11 for workgroups. ;)
<duncan-nz> brousch, basically, yes ;-)
<duncan-Zzz> (emmajane, no idea. I only run it for packman nostalgia)
<jjesse> 3.1 was the one with a legal problem for disk keeper or something like correet?
<jjesse> they quickly came out with 3.11 for workgroups
<emmajane> something like that, jjesse
<brousch> My 8 month old sees my wife and I on our laptops and he dives for the keyboard to beat on it. I let him give it a try at about 5 months http://ur1.ca/1q7
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-06
<sommer> mdke: looks like I over wrote the history of the commits you've done the last couple of days, sorry about that
<sommer> mdke: I thought there was a feature with the new bzr that stopped that?
 * sommer needs to learn more about how to use bzr 
<sommer> mdke: oooohhh, I see I should have done a pull to grab the newest content... I got confused because I tried to do a merge and it wouldn't let me because my changes weren't commited
<mdke> sommer: you should bind your branch to launchpad, and then just do "bzr up", it won't let you commit without updating that way
<agy> I will be performing an upgrade of wiki.ubuntu.com from 16h00 (BST). This should take approximately 90 minutes to complete. During this period the wiki will be placed in read-only mode. Please ensure that you have saved any edits before 16h00 (BST).
<agy> I will start the upgrade of wiki.ubuntu.com in 5 minutes. Please ensure that you have saved any edits as the wiki will be placed in read-only mode.
<agy> I have placed wiki.ubuntu.com in read-only mode. Maintenance should take approximately 90 minutes to complete.
<agy> Apologies for the slight overrun. I have completed maintenance on wiki.ubuntu.com.
<jpds> agy: Thanks for the work, however, I'm getting an "Internal Server error".
<jpds> agy: Oh wait, back up now! Thanks!
<agy> jpds: yeah - sorry
<jpds> No problem :)
<emmajane> I keep getting server 500 errors while trying to save pages  on the Wiki. Is anyone else (still) having this problem?
<emmajane> (the page appears to be saving, but I'm getting a server 500 error)
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-07
 * coolbhavi is away: I'm busy
 * coolbhavi is back (gone 00:00:41)
<dancutting> hello
 * mdke is playing with updating the theme for help.ubuntu.com
<mdke> here is a test run - http://doc.ubuntu.com/~mdke/test/serverguide/C/
<LaserJock> mdke: have you noticed wiki slowdown recently?
<mdke> LaserJock: no, but I've seen a bug comment that might be the cause
<mdke> hang on
<LaserJock> on wiki.u.c at least it seems noticeably slower and jcastro mentioned the same thing today
<mdke> bug 86253
<mdke> damn, no bot
<LaserJock> np
<mdke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/86253
<LaserJock> hmm, that is interesting
<LaserJock> mdke: that theme looks really nice, though for me personally the top is a bit dark
<mdke> I just copied it from start.u.c, it was the principle that I wanted to get right
<mdke> needs a little xsl tweak but is fairly easy to get right
<mdke> i quite like the theme though, more than www.u.c
<LaserJock> do you know if that header look is going to stay around for a while?
<LaserJock> I might be a bit concerned that it's going to look like we got stuck in Hardy
<mdke> LaserJock: no idea, but it was a special heron release so maybe not (I removed the heron from the start.u.c design for that mockup though)
<emmajane> mdke: As an aside, any lucky getting the planet content guidelines up?
<mdke> emmajane: it's waiting on the sysadmins, who are currently in the middle of two crises I'm told (one of which is the issue LaserJock mentioned above with the wiki)
<LaserJock> mdke: oh, speaking of that as well, I wasn't quite sure how to fix the typo in the new sidebar text on that
<mdke> LaserJock: can't you just login to the wiki and edit the page?
<mdke> emmajane: to be honest, my request was filed well over a month ago now, it's generally a slow process; but we'll get there!
<LaserJock> no, I mean i don't quite understand what was trying to be said
<mdke> ah
<emmajane> mdke: yay that it's in the works! :)
<mdke> go on
<LaserJock> oh silly me
<LaserJock> I thought "woo" was a typo
<mdke> classic sabdfl vocabulary
<LaserJock> mdke: tbh, I think the language is maybe a bit too playful/condescending sounding perhaps
<emmajane> Is the crisis related to the server 500 errors I kept getting yesterday on the wiki?
<emmajane> My page was saving, but I was getting a Server 500 error.
<mdke> possibly
 * emmajane nods.
<mdke> apparently that bug is only a part of it LaserJock - the upgrade has caused all hell to break loose it seems
<LaserJock> hmmpf
<LaserJock> they've had *how* long to test it out?
<emmajane> Becausee the pages were saving I wasn't sure how to say anything about it. Certain as a Web dev if someone had emailed me and said, "My pages are saving and I get Server 500s" I wouldn't have been very impressed. :)
<mdke> LaserJock: it's been working fine on help.u.c/community and the other wikis upgraded, it's pretty difficult to recreate the environment you get on wiki.u.c
<mdke> it gets hit pretty hard
<mdke> I have to go to bed, see you guys later
<emmajane> sleep well!
<mdke> ty
<LaserJock> mdke: cya
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-08
<shahriar086> Hi I cant log into ubuntu-wiki
<shahriar086> and I am not sure whether it is a bug or something. Can anyone help me?
<shahriar086> I have pasted the error over here
<shahriar086> 'module' object has no attribute 'getSysPage'
<shahriar086> If you want to report a bug, please save this page and attach it to your bug report.
<shahriar086>     * Show debugging information
<shahriar086>     * Report bug
<shahriar086>     * Visit MoinMoin wiki
<bhavi_> shahriar086, try through your open ID
<bhavi_> shahriar086, try through your open ID
<shahriar086> sorry my mistake
<shahriar086> http://paste.ubuntu.com/35548/
<bhavi_> shahriar086, Ok are you using Open ID?
<shahriar086> humm it says if you need to click continue.. and it forwards me to login with launchpad account
<bhavi_> shahriar086, login to your LP account and then try to login to wiki using open ID
<shahriar086> ok bhavi_
<Old_Soldier> :) it seems to me right after wiki updates you need a fresh login
<Old_Soldier> erm upgrades
<bhavi_> Old_Soldier, yup mate :)
<shahriar086> thanks
<shahriar086> I am leaving now
<shahriar086> will come back to you if it does not work
<shahriar086> bye
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-09
<Atamira> did anyone update the wiki on ssh howto?
<technomensch> Is there a good ubu wiki editing expert in here?
<Atamira> yes, but if hes awake is another thing
<technomensch> LOL
<duncan-nz> This page about the quality of the h.u.c wiki needs comments and input: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpWikiQualityAssurance/talk
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-03
<Rocket2DMn> geez, duncan made such a mess of things
<Rocket2DMn> it is impossible to follow all these connections
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<Sp3c1alK> is there an api in c/c++ for ubuntu?
<Flannel> Sp3c1alK: What do you mean?
<Sp3c1alK> I'm wanting to develop an app in c/c++ using some networking features, and I'm wondering if there is any documentation or an api for ubuntu that I could use
<Sp3c1alK> like the WinAPI on msdn
<Flannel> Yeah, it's not ubuntu specific, but Linux specific.
<Sp3c1alK> where can I find this at?
<Flannel> Um, well, networking you'd use sockets I imagine.  Let me see what I can find in a cursory search
<Sp3c1alK> ok, thanks
<Flannel> Well, there's lot out there.  None of them really stand out as extremely good.  But "Linux Networking C++" returns relevant results, etc.  Try #ubuntu-programming maybe, they may know of better resources besides just man pages and google.
<Sp3c1alK> alright, thanks =)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-04
<mdke> morning all
<Atamira> i just upgraded to 8.10
<Atamira> my documentation isnt reading correctly
<mdke> what's up?
<Atamira> Thank you for your interest in Ubuntu
<Atamira>                 - the  - released in .
<Atamira> 				
<Atamira> thats what i get in that section
<Rocket2DMn> Yeah, that's a known bug Atamira
<mdke> isn't it a fixed bug?
<Rocket2DMn> thank you for letting us know :)
<Atamira> is it the same under versions and release numbers?
<Atamira> Our first release (Warty Warthog) was in
<Atamira>                         October 2004 so its version was 4.10. This version () was
<Atamira>                         released in  so its version number is .
<Atamira> 							
<mdke> Atamira: have you got the latest version of ubuntu-docs?
<Atamira> i just did a complete systems upgrade last night
<Atamira> so i just assumed it will have all updated versions
<Atamira> pidgin wont install for some reason
<mdke> yes, if you upgraded from the internet, it should be
<Atamira> stupid dependencies
<Atamira> finished installing this morning..and i normally check the 'about ubuntu' screen to make sure
<Atamira> and thats what i came up with
<mdke> hmm. I can't find the bug right now
<Rocket2DMn> bug 303578
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 303578 in ubuntu-docs "System->About Ubuntu homepage has glitchy "Thank you" line" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/303578
<Rocket2DMn> apparently open for intrepid still
<mdke> thanks Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> is there a way to see bugs that have been accepted for versions of Ubuntu but have been fixed in the latest?
<Rocket2DMn> like that one doesnt appear in the open bug list
<mdke> it should do, really
<Rocket2DMn> guess you gotta check here - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/ubuntu-docs
<mdke> Atamira: I will try and sort that bug out soon, thanks for reminding us of it
<Atamira> all good mdke
<Atamira> i just though it was unusual is all
<Atamira> you guys all do such a great job
<mdke> packaging is our weak point; that's what caused that bug
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, there are a couple of doc-team related pages on the community docs that i ran across the other day that appear to be outdated and no longer maintained since we now have most of our stuff o nthe team wiki
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiCleanupProposal
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/PageDiscussion
<Rocket2DMn> there may have been a few others - what do you want to do with them?
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-05
<Baconizer> Greetings
<mdke> morning
<Baconizer> I'm going to switch to Ubuntu
<Baconizer> I've been looking for some Linux-related thing to write with
<Baconizer> So, in the morning, I'm going to start hanging around the doc team :D
<mdke> welcome aboard
<Baconizer> Thanks
<Baconizer> I actually like Fedora a bit more than Ubuntu, but in my experience the Fedora community isn't nearly as good as the Ubuntu community
<Baconizer> So Ubuntu it is :D
<mdke> I have to say I haven't had much experience of the Fedora community
<mdke> but ours is very welcoming, definitely
<Baconizer> Yeah
<Baconizer> I've used Ubuntu a bit before
<Baconizer> And I always came away with a good impression from the people
<Baconizer> I talked to
<mdke> cool
<Baconizer> Sorry for harping on a bit
<Baconizer> I haven't slept in a bit
<Baconizer> >_>
<mdke> not at all
<mdke> heh
<mdke> I'm the opposite, bit groggy after just waking up...
 * Baconizer throws tea at mdke 
<mdke> ouch
<Baconizer> What time zone?
<mdke> London
<Baconizer> My cousin lives there
<Baconizer> I live in Alaska, 11:44 at the moment
<Baconizer> We've finally moved past the stage where it's still light at this time :P
<mdke> that must be pretty weird
<Baconizer> Yeah
<Baconizer> In the middle of the summer, it stays light 'till about 3 AM, then gets light again at about 6
<Baconizer> Luckily, I don't have a normal schedule, so I get some dark :P
<mdke> wow
<mdke> ok, I need to get going, welcome again
<Baconizer> Thanks
<Baconizer> Bai
<Lademord> Hey, can anyone help me? I'm trying to write docs for Banshee in Mallard, but I cannot open them in Yelp. In the terminal I get a "(yelp:3455): Yelp-WARNING **: Yelper initialization failed for 0x1c61c40"
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-06
 * Baconizer hopes the mailing list is more active D:
<starcraftman> lo' there Baconizer
<Baconizer> ohai :D
<missaugustina> Hey is there an installer guide meeting?
<KelvinGardiner> No, it doesn't seem to be happening.
<missaugustina> OK thanks :)
<KelvinGardiner> philbull: What happened to the IG meeting?
<philbull> KelvinGardiner: Oops, I arrived late!
<philbull> I guess that we'll have to reschedule.
<philbull> I'm going to have to stop missing meetings...
<KelvinGardiner> philbull: ok
<mdke> missaugustina: was that advertised somewhere?
<mdke> (bbiab)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-07
 * Baconizer is overwhelmed by everything D:
<ffffffffff> if i edit a page on the community wiki, does it get reviewed?
<mdke> ffffffffff: not automatically, no
<mdke> ffffffffff: someone might read it, but it's not definite - if you'd like a review done, you can email our mailing list
<ffffffffff> thanks
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, if you get back while i'm still here, would you mind having a look at two bugs i filed this week related to the wiki?
<Rocket2DMn> bug 410106
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 410106 in ubuntu-docs "Community Docs - SaveError has occured in PageEditor.deletePage." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410106
<Rocket2DMn> bug 408083
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 408083 in ubuntu-docs "Community Docs surge protection is too restrictive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408083
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: yeah, I saw em. I think we'll need to pass them to the sysadmins
<Rocket2DMn> ok mdke , anything I can do to help with that?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: sure, please post them to rt@ubuntu.com (cc me if you lik)
<Rocket2DMn> what address is that?
<Rocket2DMn> (so I know who I'm writing to)
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: it's the request tracker for issues for the sysadmins to look at
<Rocket2DMn> is that gonna automatically open a ticket for them?
<mdke> right
<Rocket2DMn> ok, then make it two separate emails?
<mdke> yes pls
<mdke> you can check its status at rt.ubuntu.com (pass ubuntu/ubuntu)
<Rocket2DMn> thanks, here's to hoping I dont screw it up
<mdke> usually things are pretty slow moving, so don't expect really fast response times
<Rocket2DMn> anything I should include in the email, like a description, or just give a link to the LP bug?
<Rocket2DMn> It would probably help if the bugs were confirmed before they get them
<Rocket2DMn> a couple of guys were able to confirm the second bug I listed just before the meeting last weekend, but they didnt mark it on LP
<mdke> I would include the same info that you included in the bug
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: mark it as confirmed yourself on the basis that others had also told you. I have reproduced the first one you listed above
<Rocket2DMn> great, thanks
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, I sent one off, does the email look OK?
<mdke> excellent
<Rocket2DMn> ok thanks mdke , i just fired off the second one as well
<mdke> good stuff, thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-08
<dhillon-v10> hello everyone
<dhillon-v10> Is anyone there
<j1mc> hi dhillon-v10
<dhillon-v10> how can I help
<j1mc> :)
<dhillon-v10> I am new and having trouble with navigating here
<j1mc> sure - no problem
<j1mc> what version of ubuntu do you use?
<dhillon-v10> 9.04
<dhillon-v10> I know a lot about programming
<dhillon-v10> my stuff is in Computer Vision
<j1mc> I'm not familiar with Computer Vision - what is it?
<dhillon-v10> It is the art of making computer see what we humans can using solid mathematics
<dhillon-v10> like face detection
<j1mc> wow, cool
<dhillon-v10> yah my question is that when  I get here do I just start typing and talking
<j1mc> most of the ubuntu documentation is desktop-focused, would that interest you?
<dhillon-v10> yes sure
<dhillon-v10> I am learning about it as well
<j1mc> or would you be interested in working on the server docs?
<dhillon-v10> I wouldn't mind either
<dhillon-v10> I am familiar with both
<dhillon-v10> :)
<j1mc> ok... are you familiar with docbook at all, or would you be willing to learn?
<dhillon-v10> no I would like to learn thanks
<dhillon-v10> about docbook
<j1mc> sure - that's the xml-based markup language that we use to write the docs.
<j1mc> have you had a look at the doc team wiki page yet?
<dhillon-v10> Yes
<dhillon-v10> I have learned to use most of the software from the wiki pages
<j1mc> i'd recommend grabbing the doc team bzr branch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Repository/
<j1mc> and having a look at how things are set up.
<dhillon-v10> alright I have bzr installed
<j1mc> i'd also recommend sending a note to the doc team mailing list, if you haven't already
<j1mc> just let them know that you're interested in helping out
<dhillon-v10> Alright, I didn't know it was that easy
<j1mc> before you do that, though, you might want to skim through some of the different topic sections...
<j1mc> see which one interests you
<dhillon-v10> Thanks a bunch
<j1mc> with your background and interests, i think you might find the server docs to be most engaging
<j1mc> as they are more technically oriented, of course
<dhillon-v10> I also would like to know your email so I can talk to you later on
<j1mc> dhillon-v10: sure - jwcampbell@gmail.com
<dhillon-v10> mine is dhillonv10@gmail.com
<dhillon-v10> Its easy to make friends
<dhillon-v10> :)
<j1mc> dhillon-v10: if you want to work on server docs, i would recommend being in touch with Adam Sommer
<dhillon-v10> who is that?
<j1mc> if you want to work on the desktop docs, i would recommend being in touch with Phil Bull or Matthew East
<j1mc> Adam Sommer leads up the server docs
<j1mc> Phil and Matthew lead up the desktop docs
<j1mc> I work mostly on Xubuntu docs
<dhillon-v10> how do you know so much
<j1mc> i've been around a while :)
<dhillon-v10> I just got to know about this irc thing yesterday
<j1mc> :)
<dhillon-v10> so please bear with me
<dhillon-v10> :)
<dhillon-v10> I have made my own project for imaging
<dhillon-v10> procedures
<j1mc> i think some developers think documentation is a lesser task, but it is important for users, and i think that knowing how to write good docs will make you a better developer
<j1mc> at least knowing the basic skills, techniques, and concepts
<dhillon-v10> Yah if you know what you are doing writing it just helps more
<dhillon-v10> I am a teenager but I have a solid background in programming
<j1mc> dhillon-v10: that's great
<j1mc> nhandler is also a teenager who does development and documentation
<dhillon-v10> hey what about all the other people in this room
<dhillon-v10> are they all developers/
<j1mc> no, most are just documentors, but some do development, too
<dhillon-v10> so you would like me to download the bzr branch for documentation then change it and later push it back...
<j1mc> dhillon-v10: no need to change it for now... and you would need to submit a patch in order to push something back.  we don't give everyone "commit" rights right away
<j1mc> just look through it, and see what area you want to work on
<dhillon-v10> oh I get it
<dhillon-v10> how do I submit a patch
<j1mc> and let us know, "hey, i'd like to work on the topics in section X"
<j1mc> as for patches...
<j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Submitting
<j1mc> if you can't find the info you need on the wiki, let us know. :)
<dhillon-v10> I would like to add some docs to OpenCV
<dhillon-v10> Most people find it extremely hard to install but it is present in Synaptic
<j1mc> what is opencv?
<dhillon-v10> It is an amazing free set of library that lets users accomplish computer vision tasks easily and there is something that needs to be changed like OpenMP integration
<dhillon-v10> It isn't present by defauly
<dhillon-v10> * default
<dhillon-v10> Can you help
<j1mc> ok - for that kind of thing, you can contribute docs about that on the ubuntu wiki, or you can contribute directly to the documentation for that particular application
<dhillon-v10> Oh that would be great but will that reach to most people
<j1mc> but info on how to install one kind of obscure application wouldn't really belong in the ubuntu system docs
<dhillon-v10> oh it isn't the installation
<j1mc> well, install or use...
<dhillon-v10> it is the integration of OpenMP
<dhillon-v10> I think I understand now :)
<j1mc> yeah, that kind of stuff would probably be best on the site for OpenCV or OpenMP
<dhillon-v10> alright thanks
<j1mc> sure, no problem
<dhillon-v10> Can you give me a link for different channels
<j1mc> #ubuntu-devel is for development
<j1mc> #ubuntu-server is for the server and server development
<dhillon-v10> alright
<dhillon-v10> So what do you contribute a lot
<dhillon-v10> to the community
<dhillon-v10> I didn't mean to write what
<dhillon-v10> typo
<j1mc> i contribute a fair amount, but i've been pretty tied up with a day job lately, so not as much lately
<dhillon-v10> Oh you work, lucky me I have my summer vacation
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> i gotta run, but...
<dhillon-v10> alright bye and thanks
<j1mc> join the documentation team mailing list, & send a short intro after you've been able to decide what topics you might like to write about
<dhillon-v10> alright
<dhillon-v10> j1mc: Hi
<dhillon-v10> hi everyone
<starcraftman> lo' dhillon-v10
<dhillon-v10> starcraftman: hey how are you
<dhillon-v10> starcraftman: did I talk to you before
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: don't think so, I don't hang about doc so much. I'm a bt member and part of the wiki fg group.
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: wiki fg group what is that
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: I'm ok guess, just spent a few hours reconfiguring main system after I messed it up badly.
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: what happened
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki < Beginners Team wiki focus group
<Rocket2DMn> starcraftman, that makes you part of the doc team :)
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Ya I know, guess I just don't hang out much here. Prolly ought to.
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: this seems usefule
<dhillon-v10> *useful
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: As to what happened, I'm still not quite sure. Somehow I messed up the system so bad it refused to enable rendering and compositing with a 3d driver. Even after a purge of all drivers and manual install.
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: oh
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: worst thing, I didn't have a drive image in place for my latest kubuntu install so had to reinstall and redo settings, almost back to normal. Took the oppurtunity to up to kde 4.3
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: Can you even make a disk image for ubuntu if so please explain how
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: Oh sure, see my wiki I just updated : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: if your not interested in dd from a terminal, best to look at the gui programs. Both are good, though I use another paid solution that's a hold over from my windows days. True Image from acronis.
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: I have heard a lot about Acronis but I thought it was for servers only
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: nope, they make a desktop home version, works a charm. Paid though. Partimage or clonezilla do the same if your interested, just not a flashy gui.
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: Can you please provide me with a link to that
<starcraftman> links to the two free ones? Just see drive image section on the wiki ^
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: nope the link to Acronis home page where you found the desktop edition
<starcraftman> http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/
<starcraftman> True Image home it's name, I've a bit older copy, no real changes.
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: Would you say something about clonizilla regarding its performance
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: can't really comment on it. Been meaning to try it. I haven't heard anything bad about performance.
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: thanks man
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: np
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: when I go on the page mentioned above it only gives me download for exe file not linux source or installer
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: Oh, forgot to metnion that, it's not actually a linux program, I created the recovery CD from the program. That's platform independant cuz ya just boot it like a live CD.
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: I want to contribute to Ubuntu documentation and I have downloaded the bzr branch now what...
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: Don't ask me about system doc stuff, I'm just a wiki editor at moment. Maybe down the line I'll do system too.
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: okay :)
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: might wanna ping Rocket2DMn, he'd know who to ask.
<dhillon-v10>  starcraftman: how do I do that
<Rocket2DMn> ask about what
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: for the record, when ya just type someones nick in a message, it's highlighted so to draw their attention. So when I put Rocket2DMn, in this message, it gets highlighted just to his chat.
<Rocket2DMn> somebody call?
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: dhillon-v10 wants to know about contributing to system docs, I said you'd know who to ask about it.
<Rocket2DMn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: how are you
<Rocket2DMn> im doing well, thanks dhillon-v10
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I have read the wiki
<Rocket2DMn> ok, so you know how to make changes then?
<Rocket2DMn> if you find problems with the system docs, you should open a bug report against the ubuntu-docs package - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs
<Rocket2DMn> if you want to fix the bug yourself, you can attach a patch to the bug report, and somebody with commit privileges will add it to the main branch if the patch is good
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I wanted to add a document for installation of OpenCV because most people find it really hard to install and it is available in Synaptic, Is that possible
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, though i have no idea what opencv is
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: It is a collection of programs used for Computer Vision and image processing
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I think you can probably help me out here
<Rocket2DMn> well, im not an expert in dealing with the system docs
<Rocket2DMn> im not sure where such a guide needs to go
<Rocket2DMn> I think it can be helpful to first have such content on the Community Docs wiki
<Rocket2DMn> then it can be ported over to the system docs later
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Alright thanks
<Rocket2DMn> so for instance, you would add a page here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenCV
<Rocket2DMn> (Assuming no other page already exists for OpenCV)
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I am creating the page now, thanks for your help
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, when in doubt, you can email the doc-team mailing list and ask for advice
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I will talk to you later, bye :)
<Rocket2DMn> cool, i look forward to seeing your work
<Rocket2DMn> thanks for contributing :)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-09
<mdke> Gwaihir: ciao
<Gwaihir> mdke: ciao!
<mdke> Gwaihir: could you do me a favour and download the translations for intrepid/ubuntu-docs - not sure if you saw my email to -translations-coordinators through Launchpad about that
<Gwaihir> hmm... nope... didn't see that mail...
<mdke> damn, maybe Launchpad let me down
<mdke> I sent it through the "Contact a team" interface
<Gwaihir> when did you send it?
<mdke> maybe thursday morning? Not 100% sure
<mdke> anyway it's the translations from here I'm after - http://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/ubuntu-docs
<mdke> I can't download them since I left the coordinators team
<Gwaihir> sure, not a problem
<mdke> many thanks
<mdke> you're not still on dialup right?
<Gwaihir> luckily not!
<mdke> :)
<Gwaihir> anyway I'll send you the link...
<mdke> actually you don't need to download the translations yourself, if you can send me the LP link
<mdke> right
<mdke> thanks again
<Gwaihir> no problem at all
<Gwaihir> as soon as I get the link I'll forward it to you
<mdke> grazie mille
<mdke> buona domenica :)
<Gwaihir> sent it!
<Gwaihir> buona domenica to you too! :)
<philbull> hi guys
<missaugustina> Hi!
<Rocket2DMn> hi
<philbull> Who's here for the installation guide meeting?
<missaugustina> I am :)
<Rocket2DMn> i had no idea there was one
<philbull> oops, I didn't send an email to the list
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: i had no idea, either
<philbull> not to worry, I was just hoping for a bit of a status update, nothing too serious
<j1mc> there's also a gnome-doc meeting right now. :)
<philbull> I'll post the logs to the ubuntu-doc list
<KelvinGardiner> I'm here for the install guide meeting.
<avi1> I'm here
<Rocket2DMn> ok, well i won't be participating in your meeting, I'll read the log though
<philbull> j1mc: I know, I'm in it...
<philbull> OK, would everyone who's here like to give a brief overview of what they've been working on?
<missaugustina> Awhile back I committed to doing the usb creator docs, so I submitted a draft of that.
<avi1> I've started drafting the installation and looking at virtualization option.
<missaugustina> There has been discussion on ubuntu-doc about what to include in the installation guide.
<missaugustina> I can create a different version of those docs for the installation guide or they can be used as is, whatever works.
<missaugustina> And I've started working on the Alternate CD installation instructions by researching Alternate CD use in the forums etc
<KelvinGardiner> I've written a draft of the "What's Next" section I'll email it this week. I'm going to create a page on the wiki with the a list of common problems and links to solutions.
<philbull> missaugustina: are you intending to put the Alternate CD stuff in the IG?
<philbull> it's already covered by the installation-guide
<missaugustina> There was a section for it in the outline
<missaugustina> When we last met, I said I would work on that section.
<missaugustina> I might be confused though, what was the link to the outline again?
<philbull> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/KarmicInstallationGuide#Proposed%20structure
<missaugustina> Getting the Alternate CD / Why would I need the Alternate CD?
<philbull> I think I intended that as a brief link out to the Alternate CD stuff, just to let people know that it exists
<missaugustina> Right.
<philbull> It's far too much to cover in the current guide, I think
<missaugustina> I agree. I wanted to see what questions people had in the forums and what people were using it for.
<philbull> (as far as actually describing the alternate installation procedure goes)
<philbull> missaugustina: aha, I'm with you now
<philbull> avi1: what's the virtualisation stuff you've been looking at?
<avi1> oh, just looking at virtualizing Win 7 for the WUbi install
<avi1> instead of showing Wubi with Win XP
<philbull> cool
<avi1> so that it's a bit more up to date. For WUBI
<philbull> which version of Windows should we be targeting?
<philbull> XP is still the most common
<avi1> My guess is Vista and Win 7
<avi1> True
<KelvinGardiner> I would say Xp, vista and win 7
<missaugustina> I would search the forums and find out where people have the most questions
<missaugustina> If a lot of current posts are using XP then it should be targeted.
<avi1> yeah, I think XP, Vista and 7 make sense
<philbull> KelvinGardiner: when we have too many options to cover, I think that we should think about covering the less popular options on the wiki
<avi1> 7 isn't out yet but will be out around the same time ... The installation for 7 and Vista should be about the same
<philbull> I don't think that covering all 3 makes sense, unless we can do it in an unconfusing and compact way
<philbull> what do you think avi1?
<avi1> I don't think it's going to take a long time
<avi1> but someone probably will need to verify the Vista, I have XP and 7 RC
<avi1> but Wubi isn't hard to do
<KelvinGardiner> ok, I was thinking if I had an old machine that couldn't upgrade to  win 7, it would probably be an xp machine, I may wish to use wubi to try ubuntu.
<avi1> True
<KelvinGardiner> I've got a vista install I give wubi a try.
<avi1> I ran Wubi before on the Win 7 beta
<philbull> ok, thanks guys
<philbull> KelvinGardiner: regarding common problems; what sort of things are you turning up?
<KelvinGardiner> I found type categories of common problems.
<dhillon-v10> j1mc
<dhillon-v10> hi
<KelvinGardiner> The first are general issues which I think you listed most of on the wiki.
<dhillon-v10> j1mc: Are you there?? ;)
<KelvinGardiner> The second are hardware specific issues. For example every ubuntu install on my macbook breaks the headphone sound, which is fixed by turning on the surround sound channel.
<j1mc> philbull: dhillon-v10 is interested in contributing to ubuntu docs
<j1mc> shoot
<philbull> KelvinGardiner: maybe we should cover hardware-specifics on the wiki and just link to them?
<j1mc> just missed him
<KelvinGardiner> Most of these issues are covered by the community help page and forums. I think we should point at these pages in the install guide and cover the common ones in detail.
<philbull> j1mc: thanks, could you pass his email address on to me, maybe?
<j1mc> philbull: sure
<avi1> That probably makes sense. I've noticed a lot of WiFi issues. They need to be dealt with but using the Wiki is probably the best bet at this stage.
<philbull> OK, so hardware issues are probably a wiki thing.
<philbull> More generic hardware issues (maybe some graphics or hard disk issues?) we should probably cover in the guide
<philbull> KelvinGardiner: did you see my IRC script that I posted on the ubuntu-doc list?
<philbull> it might help in rooting out some common problems
<KelvinGardiner> yeah, I've not had chance to try it yet. I try it this week.
<philbull> cool, let me know if you have any problems with it
<philbull> OK, sounds like we're progressing well with the writing
<KelvinGardiner> Are we going to cover installing restricted graphics drivers?
<philbull> I haven't heard from nhandler in a while
<philbull> KelvinGardiner: that's covered directly by the system docs, so we should just point there if it's a major problem.
<KelvinGardiner> ok
<dhillon-v10> hi everyone
<philbull> hi dhillon-v10
<dhillon-v10>  philbull: I have a question for you
<philbull> dhillon-v10: sure, shoot
<philbull> (IG team guys: anything else you'd like to discuss?)
<dhillon-v10>  philbull: When I get into a room and want help who should I ask
<KelvinGardiner> If this is going on to the karmic cd, when do we need to be done for?
<philbull> dhillon-v10: on IRC? it's normally best to ask a question to the whole channel
<philbull> dhillon-v10: though it can take a long time for someone to reply
<philbull> KelvinGardiner: I think we need to be done by Feature Freeze
<dhillon-v10> philbull: so just shoot it out...
<philbull> KelvinGardiner: 27th August, hmm
<philbull> So I think we need *something* by then
<dhillon-v10> philbull: Can I help
<philbull> We need to finish the guide by Doc String Freeze
<avi1> Oh, question, how are we dealing with screen shots?
<philbull> dhillon-v10: sure, what would you like to help out with?
<avi1> Are we going to have a significant amount of screen shots or totally ignore them? Or does that depend.
<dhillon-v10> philbull: something you guys were talking about just now
<KelvinGardiner> ok, who is sorting out the layout? I think a clear simple layout is needed for the common problems section.
<philbull> avi1: they should be used reasonably sparingly
<philbull> avi1: they're awkward for translators, but we can figure something out.
<philbull> KelvinGardiner: I think that was DB's job
<KelvinGardiner> ok
<philbull> dhillon-v10: we're talking about the installation guide at the moment
<dhillon-v10> philbull: Alright go on
<philbull> would you be interested in helping out with the wiki side of the installation docs?
<dhillon-v10>  philbull: ya sure
<philbull> once the installation guide is finished, we'll need to look at the wiki pages and see what should be reorganised
<dhillon-v10> philbull: Alright
<philbull> dhillon-v10: would you like to email me and I can send through some details?
<philbull> it's philbull AT gmail DOT com
<philbull> OK installation guide guys, it seems like everyone is making pretty good progress so far
<philbull> any grievances? Questions?
<KelvinGardiner> no
<philbull> I'd like to apologise for missing the last meeting.
<missaugustina> Nope
<dhillon-v10> philbull: Alright I just send you an email
<philbull> dhillon-v10: thanks, I'll get back to you ASAP
<dhillon-v10> philbull: np :)
<philbull> OK, if no-one has anything more to discuss about the IG, then we should end the meeting
<philbull> I'm pretty pleased so far
<philbull> thanks for coming guys :)
<missaugustina> np!
<KelvinGardiner> no problem
<dhillon-v10> philbull: yah, nice talking to you
<Rocket2DMn> Ok guys, let's get started with the BT Wiki FG meeting
<Rocket2DMn> just FYI guys, the doc-team had a meeting last weekend
<Rocket2DMn> You can find the summary and log here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/DocTeam
<Rocket2DMn> Before we start with the wiki stuff - is anybody also interested in working on system docs?
<starcraftman> not really, I'm pretty happy sticking to wiki atm. Maybe further down the road.
<Rocket2DMn> ok then, let me know in the future if you are
<Rocket2DMn> Moving on - Summer of Documentation
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: will do.
<Rocket2DMn> Thank you all for your hard work this summer, a lot of great stuff has been done
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development
<Silver_Fox_> thank you too Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> Of course, you can work on any page on the wiki, even if it isn't listed there
<Rocket2DMn> also, you can add any pages to the Available section if you run across a page you think BT members might be able to handle
<starcraftman> Yup, congrats to all, think we covered quite a bit of articles I'll get some more in before I go back in mid September.
<Silver_Fox_> i am still beavering away at the list :)
<Rocket2DMn> Yeah, we'll wind down the SoD in September
<Rocket2DMn> perhaps around Sept 22, that is the weekend at the end of the Summer season
<Rocket2DMn> Although, I fully expect some drop off around Labor day since people will be going back to school
<Silver_Fox_> why do we want to wind it down?
<Rocket2DMn> I recognize that this is all volunteer time, so don't stress yourselves
<Rocket2DMn> well Silver_Fox_ , we can't maintain the Summer of Documentation all year round :)
<starcraftman> Silver_Fox_: summer holiday doesn't last forever, even if some wish it did ^^
<Rocket2DMn> that's not to say you can't do work, it's just not part of this little project
<Silver_Fox_> okay,  just clarifying :)
<Rocket2DMn> we do maintain the community docs all year round :)
<Rocket2DMn> the SoD is really just a way to get people from the BT involved in the wiki
<Silver_Fox_> hey,  might even finish the glossary,  haha
<Rocket2DMn> Does anybody have any questions?
<Silver_Fox_> i think that is a no
<Rocket2DMn> Ok then, please feel free to interrupt me at any time, but I'll move on
<starcraftman> Not really, I think someone wanted to know what to do with orphans....
<Rocket2DMn> A page that I've thrown at a couple of you guys is exactly what starcraftman is now mentioning
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OrphanedPages
<Rocket2DMn> those are pages that aren't linked from anywhere else on the community docs
<Rocket2DMn> a lot of the pages listed there are redirects, so you can ignore those
<Silver_Fox_> i have a question regarding that page
<Rocket2DMn> However, many of those pages need homes, and pages that arent linked from elsewhere arent very useful unless somebody grabs it from google
<Rocket2DMn> go for it Silver_Fox_
<Silver_Fox_> is it generated by a bot or human? reason i ask is i can see where some of the links could be referenced
<Rocket2DMn> Silver_Fox_, it should be autogenerated
<Silver_Fox_> okay,  thank you Rocket2DMn.
<Rocket2DMn> starcraftman asked me to give an example
<starcraftman> I did? Don't think so ><.
<Rocket2DMn> no, maybe it was somebody else
<Rocket2DMn> sorry
<Rocket2DMn> anyway, let's take https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WineServer
<starcraftman> sure.
<Rocket2DMn> if you look at the page history, you will notice that it was only created a year ago, which meant somebody started an independent page
<Rocket2DMn> the main Wine page is here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wine
<Rocket2DMn> So what do we do with the WineServer page?
<Rocket2DMn> why dont' you guys tell me what you would do :)
<starcraftman> Link from WINE > WineServer.
<starcraftman> The exact nature of how ya link it about though depends on the pages, the WINE page a bit of a mess as it is.
<Silver_Fox_> check content of wine page first to see if wine server covered
<Rocket2DMn> Yes, there could be content on the WineServer page that isn't covered on the Wine page
<Rocket2DMn> I'm not a Wine expert, but it should be noted that Wine and WineServer are two components of what is generally just viewed as Wine
<Rocket2DMn> perhaps there is content that should specifically remain on the WineServer page, or be moved there from the Wine page
<Rocket2DMn> if somebody were to take on that page, they would need to do some research or already know more about wine than i do :)
<starcraftman> Wineserver page definitely needs to be updated if it's to be linked, last tested on 606 it says.
<starcraftman> I'm more of a VM user tbh.
<Rocket2DMn> yeah starcraftman , after cleanup the links can be added
<starcraftman> Though I have been trying desperately hard to get WINE to make my folding GPU windows client work, no luck though.
<Rocket2DMn> lol
<Rocket2DMn> well, there are other pages like this on the wiki that show us interesting things about what's happening with the wiki
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PageHits
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecentChanges
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TitleIndex
<starcraftman> hehe, I'm listed a lot on the recent changes one. :)
<Rocket2DMn> There are a couple more i believe, but i dont recall them off the top of my head
<Rocket2DMn> Any questions?
<Rocket2DMn> ok then
<starcraftman> nope, simple enough concept, already linked about 20 or so orphans I thought were worth saving.
<Rocket2DMn> I'm not sure if you are already doing this, but it would be good if you all subscribed to pages that you did serious work on
<Rocket2DMn> then you can act as a maintainer of the page, and see what changes other people make later
<Silver_Fox_> good idea
<starcraftman> Yup, I do that for the ones I rewrite like my backup and the ISO pages.
<Silver_Fox_> are only 3 people here?
<Rocket2DMn> I also want to note that if you work on pages that are important, popular, or probably/might have experts in the subject, you should seek those people out if appropriate to ask for advice about a page, or to let them know that you are working on it
<dsas> Silver_Fox_: no
<starcraftman> Silver_Fox_: Only 3 wiki fg members, yup, I think so. Rest are regular doc members.
<Rocket2DMn> remember that this is a community effort and we are working with others to keep documentation up to date
<Rocket2DMn> it is respectful and helpful to talk to others - you can always check to see who has contributed to pages by looking at the Page History
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Right, can always send a post to doc mail list to ask..
<Rocket2DMn> if you have questions or concerns, you can always take them to the doc-team mailing list, or other lists if appropriate
<Rocket2DMn> exactly starcraftman
<pleia2> some pages also instruct you not to edit them, so it's good to read them thoroughly too
<Rocket2DMn> yes, those are ones that should be taken to mailing lists.  there are only a handful of pages like that though, and are often ones linked from the main ubuntu site or are maintained by project owners
<pleia2> yeah, I'm thinking council ones mostly (irc council's irc rules, loco council's loco team list)
<Rocket2DMn> those are mostly on wiki.ubuntu.com, which we don't typically deal with
<pleia2> ah, ok
<Rocket2DMn> does anybody have any questions at all?  I am basically out of material.  I like to keep these meetings short
<starcraftman> not really, I usually ask ya a question in the bt channel when it comes to me.
<Silver_Fox_> I don't have any questions
<Rocket2DMn> okie dokie then.  Of course you can always ask questions later
<Rocket2DMn> Thanks for attending, meeting adjourned!
<starcraftman> no problem
<Silver_Fox_> a pleasure
<Silver_Fox_> now if only bt meetings were at this time :)
<Rocket2DMn> hehe
<Silver_Fox_> it would be a lot easier for me and means i get to bed before 2am
<Silver_Fox_> but yeah...
<Snova> Where would I report an... odd, page?
<starcraftman> Snova: odd page?
<Snova> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LaunchPad
<starcraftman> Snova: linky?
<Snova> I found it linked off of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Git
<starcraftman> Snova: I see what ya mean, originator posted the CoC signed, the next guy was trying to get help... either pranksters or very very lost people.
<Silver_Fox_> hmm i suspect lost
<Silver_Fox_> created back in may i see.  does not belong in wiki though
<starcraftman> Silver_Fox_: guess not, I'll mark it for deletion. Covering lp isn't in scope of the wiki.
#ubuntu-doc 2010-08-10
<j1mc> quack
<cody-somerville> j1mc, :)
<j1mc> cody-somerville: howdy
<cody-somerville> j1mc, I hope things are well with you. :)
<j1mc> yeah - things are good.  how about for you?
<cody-somerville> doing well, thanks. :)
<j1mc> pasi just helped me update my blog over the weekend
<cody-somerville> j1mc, awesome. :)
<j1mc> j1m.net
<j1mc> of course, it looks like pasi did it.  : )
<cody-somerville> looks nice :)
<j1mc> cody-somerville: what are you working on these days?
<cody-somerville> mostly oem-services stuff
<cody-somerville> and live-helper and django
<j1mc> what is live-helper?
<cody-somerville> j1mc, its used to build live systems
<j1mc> :)  I looked it up.  :)
<j1mc> sounds neat, though.
<j1mc> jani monoses came onto this channel and the gnome docs channel the other day
<j1mc> he's putting together an ubuntu derivative that uses chromium, so he wanted to see if there was a webkit based version of yelp in ubuntu
<j1mc> this would allow him to remove the xulrunner deps...
<j1mc> i know that there's a build in a branch of git, but he was hoping there was a ppa.
<j1mc> we chatted for a bit
<cody-somerville> cool :)
<mdke> j1mc: there must be a deb package around somewhere because at an early stage in the previous cycle the webkit version of yelp was being used in Ubuntu (I believe it came from debian)
<mdke> j1mc: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/yelp
<j1mc> mdke: thanks  :)
#ubuntu-doc 2010-08-13
<alket> How to upload a image at ubuntu community docs ?
<alket> How to upload a screenshot in Ubuntu Wiki ?
#ubuntu-doc 2010-08-14
<phillw> Hi, who should I 'nag' about comments for a draft replacement for help document?
<phillw> nhandler: are you available for a quick chat on the LAMP documentation I did?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-08-09
<kim0> Hi folks .. I plan to be improving the server-guide a bit
<kim0> what's the best way to contribute ?
<kim0> file bugs and attach merge proposals ?
<Atamira> youd be better off posting that to the mailing list
<Atamira> you may get a quicker answer than in here
<Atamira> unless someone is actually aware in here?
<Atamira> other than me
<jbicha> merge proposal works well, and you don't need to open bugs
<jbicha> you could also post to the mailing list to make sure that the right people see that you have MPs that need to be looked at
<Seven_Six_Two> I am interested in creating a page that can help new users help themselves. including information like how to get logs, how to use log info in search, mentioning that forum search should be done before posting question, running programs in terminal to get more information
<Seven_Six_Two> man, info, help
<Seven_Six_Two> I would like it to be official, but I am unsure of the process. Should I just go ahead and create a page on the wiki?
<jjesse> yes
<Seven_Six_Two> jjesse, does it give me the opportunity to create the page alias too? Thanks for the info, I'll figure it out.
<IAmNotThatGuy> Hello team! Where can I find the manual for 11.04?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-08-10
<curiousg> hi does anyone know if  1. every linux has no file size limitation or     2. some linux have a file size limitation        i am trying to dowload a 4.3 gig iso and windows xp limits file size for download and also recording video
<MrChrisDruif> curiousg; this is more of a support question, which you can better ask in either #ubuntu or #ubuntu-beginners. Either team has more people around to answer questions.
<MrChrisDruif> And what is the file-system being used by Windows XP, FAT32 by any chance?
<curiousg> ok thanks mrchrisdruif  ntfs  xp has a 4gig limit on recording videos but i wasnt aware of the fule download sixze untill i tried to download the latest linux iso 4.3 big  version
<MrChrisDruif> I don't know what linux iso you tried to download, Ubuntu has a CD image available
<curiousg> i was also using utorrent fedora 15  big  dvd  version   iam using the ubuntu live cd right nowe to get online  and i know windows7 dosen`t have the 4 gig limitaion
<curiousg> sorry it wasnt fedora i tried 8 different kinds of linux past 2 days i have to go see which was the big file one
<curiousg> ok thanksagain  mrchrisdruif i will go to the chat channels you posted
<MrChrisDruif> Your welcome, btw curiousg according to this comparison http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems ntfs your be able to go to 16 EB or Exabyte
<curiousg> hm i will have to check that i always make it ntfs format but maybe i slipped up this time ya never know
<MrChrisDruif> Btw you can see all the filesystems over there which you can choose with linux
<MrChrisDruif> Default with Ubuntu (for a few releases already) is Ext4
<curiousg> i apreciate that thanks mrchrisdruif
<MrChrisDruif> Your welcome :)
#ubuntu-doc 2011-08-11
<jbicha_> kim0: Ubuntu Server doesn't officially support ARM, does it?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-08-12
<littlegirl> Hey there, I thought I'd let you guys know there's someone sabotaging the wiki.
<littlegirl> I don't know if you can stop someone from editing the wiki, but if you can, you might want to stop SammyWilson from doing edits.
<littlegirl> He sabotaged the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UserDocumentation and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MediaWiki pages, which I've fixed.
<littlegirl> I don't know what else he may have done.
<DarkwingDuck> Thanks for the heads up.
<littlegirl> Any time. (:
<kim0> Hello folks, can anyone around here please act on my merge proposal: https://code.launchpad.net/~kim0/serverguide/ch-installation-fixes
<head_victim> kim0: I've had a quick read of the diff for your proposal. I'm mainly looking at content as opposed to the format. Is there any real reason to include the RAID 1 information? Other RAIDs provide the same features you've mentioned. Other than that little nit-pick it seemed ok. I'm not 100% up to date on the formatting though so I'll leave that to more proficient types. Nice update of links though.
<head_victim> Just thought you'd like at least SOME feedback :D
#ubuntu-doc 2011-08-13
<kim0> head_victim: thanks for the feedback .. for the raid piece, initially it was saying "raid reduces chances of data loss" .. since raid0 doesn't .. I just add "raid level 1 does xxx" .. I chose level 1 because that is what is being talked about
<kim0> perhaps indeed I should say, some raid levels including level1 (mirror) ...
<OutOfControl> I'm running a doc jam soon is there anything else I need to know that is not on the Wiki pages?
#ubuntu-doc 2012-08-07
<smartboyhw> Hi
#ubuntu-doc 2012-08-09
<mhvis> hey
<mhvis> I noticed a small type
<mhvis> maybe someone can correct that:
<mhvis> https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/phpmyadmin.html
<mhvis> and then under Installation it sais 'In a browser go to http://servername/phpmyadmin, replacing serveranme with the server's actual hostname.'
#ubuntu-doc 2013-08-07
<pleia2> bkerensa: I'll send a note to the list on Monday or so, but the CC meeting with the Docs team is next Thursday
<pleia2> in case you want to shuffle priorities to get anything done before then ;)
<pleia2> just the typical check in thing, but I'm sure the question of whether the team is stable enough for the CC to remove itself will come up
<bkerensa> pleia2: ahh ok
<bkerensa> godbyk: do you think you are Doug might be able to attend? I will be getting last minute stuff done before my flight to SF
<pleia2> 10am our time
<bkerensa> pleia2: hopefully Doug or Kevin can attend I didn't know doc team had a meeting with the CC
<bkerensa> :)
<bkerensa> and I have to fly down to your city
<bkerensa> :D
<pleia2> hm, I thought laura sent emails to all the teams we'd be meeting with
<pleia2> but I can't find an email, oops :)
<pleia2> I'll mail the list now
<bkerensa> I just search all my labels and find nothing from Laura
<bkerensa> :)
<bkerensa> kk
<bkerensa> pleia2: we need to add some wiki doc admins
<bkerensa> so pages can be renamed
<bkerensa> pleia2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw/temp_Manual
<pleia2> bkerensa: that doesn't require an admin
<pleia2> bkerensa: it's help.ubuntu.com where that is required, on the wiki even I can rename
<bkerensa> huh
<bkerensa> help.ubuntu.com is not wiki though
<bkerensa> :)
<bkerensa> hmm
<bkerensa> weird
<pleia2> help.ubuntu.com/community I mean
<pleia2> wiki.ubuntu.com and help.ubuntu.com/community are both wikis, they have different settings
<bkerensa> I see
#ubuntu-doc 2014-08-05
<pmatulis> pleia2: thanks for including my server guide call in the weekly news
<pleia2> pmatulis: sure thing :)
<belkinsa> pmatulis, mind if I chair the meeting (tomorrow)?  And also, I was the one who sumbitted the news about the guide.
<pmatulis> belkinsa: don't you always chair?  no problem here
<pmatulis> belkinsa: and thanks for the news submit
<belkinsa> I do but I was worried that I had to work tomorrow.
 * belkinsa works a part time job
#ubuntu-doc 2014-08-06
<DS-McGuire> Hello guys :D
<DS-McGuire> belkinsa: How come you never got back to me? :(
<belkinsa> DS-McGuire, I did.
<belkinsa> Wait, have you replied to the e-mail that I sent you.
<DS-McGuire> belkinsa: Oh I am sorry, I never got anything.
<belkinsa> WTF.
<belkinsa> Stupid Yahoo.
<DS-McGuire> Don't worry to much about it.
<belkinsa> I still have it
<belkinsa> DS-McGuire, can I PM you?
<DS-McGuire> Sure can :)
<belkinsa> The Doc Team meeting is in under an hour in #ubuntu-meeting-2!
<pmatulis> belkinsa: thanks, i almost forgot
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<belkinsa> The Doc Team meeting is in under 30 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting-2!
<belkinsa> ( i think I need to shut up)
<belkinsa> ;)
<belkinsa> The Doc Team meeting is in under 10 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting-2!
<belkinsa> Starting meeting in #ubuntu-meeting-s
<belkinsa> Starting meeting in #ubuntu-meeting-2
<belkinsa> Urg, I still feel like I'm deadweight in the team.
<belkinsa> Deadspace*
#ubuntu-doc 2014-08-07
<DS-McGuire> I think I am being a bit stupid but... I can't figure out how to join the mailing list! Can somebody help?
<pmatulis> DS-McGuire: hi
<pmatulis> DS-McGuire: what have you tried so far?  what pages did you read?  i'm interested because you are new.  maybe we can improve things for newcomers
<DS-McGuire> pmatulis: I simply can't find out how to add to the mailing list. haha!
<pmatulis> DS-McGuire: what are you looking at?
<DS-McGuire> I have read all the pages I can find and they all say "join the mailing list".
<pmatulis> DS-McGuire: k, sec
<DS-McGuire> hold on
<pmatulis> DS-McGuire: so this is our home: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<pmatulis> it may not be the best but if you go to 'Contact us'
<pmatulis> (top right)
<pmatulis> you'll get to this page:
<pmatulis> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact
<DS-McGuire> Ah, I never thought to look under contact us, I assumed it would be under Join the Team...
<pmatulis> DS-McGuire: yeah, so this is a valid point.  we may consider moving it
<DS-McGuire> I don't know if that's my fault, I think it might have been.
<pmatulis> DS-McGuire: take these kind of notes down.  they're valuable
<DS-McGuire> I will do :D
<pmatulis> DS-McGuire: sec, on the â
<belkinsa-> DS-McGuire, some of the teams use the lists.ubuntu.com mailing lists since some of the teams were before LaunchPad.  The link for our mailing-list is: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<DS-McGuire> belkinsa-: Thanks, I am signing up now :)
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<belkinsa> And pmatulis is right, the best way to find where the mailing-list is is under the contact wiki page of most teams.
<DS-McGuire> That wasn't very obvious to me for some reason ahah!
<belkinsa> DS-McGuire, you should really need read the home page of each team on the wiki and the how contact them, when you want to join.  Of course there are other pages that help you get started or see if you want to really join.
<pmatulis> DS-McGuire: i see you tried to joing the ubuntu doc umbrella team.  i guess that is something else we need to make more clear.  just join the contributors team, which you already did
<pmatulis> mental note for /me
<DS-McGuire> I did read everything that I came across and on launchpad it says this: "If you wish to begin contributing, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam, join our mailing list, and find us on irc at #ubuntu-doc". It doesn't say go the contact us page at all. I assumed Contact Us was for other people.
<DS-McGuire> Oh well that makes sense then, I will remove my request for that team.
<pmatulis> don't bother, i don't think you can anyway
 * pmatulis makes notes
<DS-McGuire> Oh, well it shouldn't be a problem should it?
<pmatulis> nope
<pmatulis> â  clarify how to join ubuntu-doc
<belkinsa> DS-McGuire, I was thinking of what Ali Linux said in one of his presentations on how to get involved.
<pmatulis> â¡ clarify what team to join
<DS-McGuire> I have work with Ali in the past.
<pmatulis> DS-McGuire: where are you from anyway?
<belkinsa> I spoke to him a few times.
<DS-McGuire> Wales in the UK
<DS-McGuire> I didn't particularly enjoy working with him.
<DS-McGuire> I have never met him in person,
<belkinsa> DS-McGuire, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijUbXSxU2UQ (ignore the strange suggested videos - YouTube has the worst UX ever)
<belkinsa> It's that video.
<belkinsa> But I believe pmatulis has a point on fixing it.
<DS-McGuire> Oh wow that is a long video. I will save that for later on tonight, thanks :)
<belkinsa> It is because it was for the last UOS
<DS-McGuire> Oh I see
#ubuntu-doc 2015-08-04
<dsmythies> pmatulis. There seems to be some other meeting going on in #ubuntu-meeting-2. There was last month also. Todays Doc team meeting is cancelled.
<pmatulis> dsmythies: acknowledged
<pleia2> didn't we move the meetings to -3 to avoid the clash? (I thought -doc was the reason we set up -3...)
<pmatulis> pleia2: -3? another room?
<pleia2> yeah, #ubuntu-meeting-3
<pleia2> but now I'm wondering if I just made that up, since I don't see meetings there
<pleia2> I guess -2 *was* the one we set up x_x my mistake
<pmatulis> pleia2: yeah, you just made that up :)
<pleia2> :D
<pleia2> it's been a long... year
<ahoneybun> hey
<pmatulis> ahoneybun: morning
<ahoneybun> afternoon
<ahoneybun> pmatulis: ^
#ubuntu-doc 2015-08-09
<pleia2> escalated the help.ubuntu.com/community login issues to the CC, been over a year since I submitted the ticket with IS
<pleia2> I was told it was escalated in february, but still no response
<pmatulis> pleia2: â
<pleia2> o/ pmatulis
<pleia2> ok, so IS is looking for a nickname solution for Ubuntu SSO for something else, so I'm now on a Cc: with some folks who are working on that "in the next few months"
 * pleia2 fingers crossed
<ahoneybun> nickname?
#ubuntu-doc 2017-08-08
<GunnarHj> popey: Hi Alan! Saw your mail, now would be fine for me.
<popey> heya
<popey> have pm'ed you GunnarHj :)
<GunnarHj> popey: pm'ed... Where?
<popey> here on irc :)
#ubuntu-doc 2017-08-11
<sccman> Hey.
<sccman> Hey I have a quick question. I have a new article idea on troubleshooting that I think would help people on the forums. I have it written out.
<sccman> How would I go about posting it as a new page?
