#ubuntu-meeting 2004-09-18
<fabbione> thom: please set the chan +s
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+s]  by thom
<thom> the hordes are massing, i see
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-19
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:JaneW] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 14 Sept 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council
<klepas> moin
<EricV> Hello !
<klepas> ni hao
<klepas> in other word, hi. :-)
<EricV> my chinese isnt very good ;) thanks !
<EricV> you have a french name with an australian host, am i wrong ?
<klepas> yep
<klepas> I'm German, living in Aussie land (Canberra to be precise), got a French name, can speak a wee bit of Chinese and use Linux.
<klepas> how's that mate?
<EricV> :D
<klepas> How about you?
<EricV> I'have a french name, living near Paris ! I have to keep learning German ! And i use Hoary & Windows... I'm here to see what they are to say about Edubuntu, because i work for a humanitarian association, and we will bring computers to African schools. Maybe we will install edubuntu for them, because we aren't really happy of Windows...
<EricV> And you what do you in Canberra ? do you work for ubuntu ?
<klepas> Not as of yet
<klepas> But I certainly am interested in offering my skills to the rather large and awesome repetoire of skills and abilities available within the Ubuntu community
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> Other than that, I've only got one accepted piece of work so far - a splash screen for JuK 2.3 which will be released with KDE 3.5 and maybe 4
<klepas> and I do a lot of other art for myself and anyone else who happens to like it :-)
<klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/about and http://wombat.nuxified.com/work
<klepas> brb
<klepas> back
<EricV> ('m reading your websites)
<klepas> :-) thank you
<EricV> your splash screen for gimp is nice! do u use gimp for creating all your picts ?
<klepas> yes
<klepas> The GIMP and sometimes a little Inkscape
<klepas> but otherwise, I am all for using open source apps
<klepas> :-)
<EricV> as powerful as apps like Photoshop ?
<ogra> klepas, do you know art.ubuntu.com ? 
<klepas> yes
<klepas> I co-admin that :-)
<ogra> fine :)
<klepas> that I suppose is my only little contribution so far.
<klepas> :-)
<EricV> will you add new themes, soonly ?
<klepas> *checks
<EricV> (that's empty for the moment...)
<klepas> one item
<EricV> well that's a very new web site, i understand why it's not full...
<klepas> Breezy Login Mockup 01  gdm_greeter
<klepas> yea
<klepas> and it is still missing a lot of functionality
<EricV> anyway there are some nice background
<klepas> but, alas I look forward to what it could mean!
<klepas> i've done this one: http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/6
<klepas> :)
<klepas> brb - need to take out the trash
<EricV> i've seen it on your blog !
<klepas> :-)
<EricV> well i'll be back in 40minutes
<JaneW> I can't u/l to http://art.ubuntu.com/ anymore... where's u/l link gone?
<ogra> JaneW, probably depending on the launchpad maintenance ? or is that over already ?
<JaneW> it's over... 
<ogra> i.e. no login, no upload...
<ogra> ah, ok
<JaneW> I can login, but there's no link (anymore) which says upload a new wallpaper...
<ogra> hmm, and hno is on holiday
<JaneW> nod
<JaneW> I am wondering if anyone else can u/l
<JaneW> Javacide added some yesterday...
<klepas> W00t!
<klepas> Ubuntu 6.04 ~ will be named Dapper Drake
<klepas> awesome
<JaneW> ahhh, I found something... ogra I think I worked it out, it's changed.
<JaneW> yes
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> sounds a bit mandrakey
<JaneW> ;P
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> I was expecting it to be Daper Dassie
<klepas> hehe
<klepas> Dassie souns nicer, imho
<JaneW> but Dapper Drake has a nice ring to it.
<JaneW> dassie is also native to SA
<klepas> yea
<klepas> both dapper and drake have nice meanings and work well together
<spacey> what does Dapper mean?
<spacey> sounds like a dutch word :)
<Treenaks> spacey: dict ;)
<spacey> oh its the same as in dutch
<Treenaks> spacey: it is?
<klepas> dapper means: Little and active; spruce; trim; smart; neat in dress or
<klepas>    appearance; lively.
<spacey> brave/dapper
<JaneW> means brave etc
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> and a drake is the male of the duck kind
<spacey> dappere eend :o)
<Treenaks> spacey: woerd 
<Treenaks> spacey: (male duck :))
<spacey> :p
<JaneW> Dapper:
<JaneW>    1.
<JaneW>          1. Neatly dressed; trim.
<JaneW>          2. Very stylish in dress.
<JaneW>    2. Lively and alert.
<JaneW> [Middle English daper, elegant, probably from Middle Dutch dapper, quick, strong.] 
<EricV> (re gentlemen)
<JaneW> **REMINDER** Edubuntu meeting her in 2 mins
<ogra> her ? 
<ogra> whom ? 
<ogra> does she look good ?
<ogra> :)
<Mithrandir> ogra: I thought you already had a "her"? :-)
<ogra> i do... i was just courious :)
<EricV> herE, i suppose...
<JaneW> no it's ME
<EricV> (i'm disapointed too..)
<JaneW> TA DA!
<EricV> ;)
<ogra> ok, so she looks good ;)
<JaneW> :P
<jelkner> good morning all!
<JaneW> ok I am ready
<spacey> ok:)
<JaneW> hi jelkner 
<JaneW> where's flint?
<jelkner> JaneW: hi, i only have 10 minutes before my students arrive
<JaneW> oh right he;s moving isn't he?
<jelkner> i can't speak for flint
<JaneW> jelkner: well then SHOOT
<jelkner> is there any way to narrow down which days are edubutu related at ubuntu below zero?
<jelkner> btw. Edubuntu rocks!
<JaneW> jelkner: I discussed this with mdz last night
<JaneW> jelkner: RAD!
<jelkner> and...?
<ogra> yay jelkner, thanks ;)
<JaneW> I was hoping we could plan as per my mail to you yesterday...
<jelkner> but that is a whole week
<JaneW> jelkner: I still think we can actually, but mdz doesn't want us to strictly limit ourselves to that...
<JaneW> ok so the distro team is busy from Mon 31 Oct to Sat 6 Nov...
<ogra> we'll have a dedicated edubuntu summit again later i guess
<jelkner> wait, maybe i didn't see your mail from yesterday...
<JaneW> The LTSP crew arrive on Thu 3 Nov
<jelkner> what should i do?
<JaneW> so I am thinking we should focus most of our edubuntu sessions in the overlap
<JaneW> Thurs- Sat
<ogra> the dostro team stays until 7th, that makes 4 days
<ogra> distro even
<JaneW> we may do some prelim talks in the days before that, but the meat will be near the end of the week, and in collaboration with the LTSP guys...
<JaneW> does everyone agree?
<JaneW> ogra: but so far the 7th is an 'off' day... we don;t want to take that away already!
<Treenaks> (note: Sunday 6th is a day off now)
<jelkner> can i do nov. 1 to 6 then?
<ogra> JaneW, i thik all we do there will be very ltsp specific, since we'll have our normal edubuntu summit too 
<JaneW> ogra: sides some of us will be there close to 3 weeks....
<Treenaks> JaneW: the 8th is the off day?
<Treenaks> JaneW: uh, 7th?
<JaneW> sorry I am confussed re dates and days... Sun 6th is the day off
<JaneW> thanks Treenaks 
<ogra> JaneW, so app selection etc will happen on the edubuntu summit...
<JaneW> jelkner: can you be there in that time?
<ogra> but we can collect input in montreal indeed
<JaneW> jelkner: 1-6th?
<jelkner> JaneW: i can attend any 2 to 3 weekdays plus a weekend
<jelkner> i just need to know now so i can apply for leave
<JaneW> jelkner: since ogra and I have other comitments (Ubuntu, LP, scheduling etc etc) would you be willing to help us to lead, as you did so ably at UDU?
<jelkner> sure
<JaneW> cool
<jelkner> just tell me the days, and i'm there
<JaneW> jelkner: you can beat the content filtering drum again.... ;)
<jelkner> i will!
<JaneW> mdz reckons we have enough for a full edubuntu track...
<jelkner> there are a lot of issues
<jelkner> local access to usb devices
<JaneW> so if I can get us a dedicated room (not sure what infrastructure we have yet), we can go made and schedule accordingly...
<jelkner> sound
<jelkner> etc.
<ogra> jelkner, sound out of the box ;)
<JaneW> s/made/mad
<JaneW> java...
<ogra> JaneW, we cant ship java
<ogra> JaneW, we have it in multiverse, thats enough
<jelkner> we can ship gnu java
<JaneW> just thinking of the norwegian flash/java requirement for exams...
<jelkner> and it is getting better all the time
<ogra> jelkner, we do already... gcj is in
<JaneW> anyway shall I try to get us a dedicated room?
<jelkner> ogra: yes, i know
<ogra> jelkner, thats why we cant ship java ;)
<JaneW> I have created a wiki page to start listing BOF topics...
<JaneW> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuBelowZero
<ogra> JaneW, good idea
<JaneW> for edubuntu specifics...
<ogra> (the room)
<jelkner> JaneW: i still need a final decision on days
<JaneW> here's another one, for general Ubuntu BOFs
<JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
<jelkner> you pick em, and i'll be there
<jelkner> but i need to know
<jelkner> now..
<jelkner> and i need to go in 4 minutes...
<JaneW> Well if we get our own room, and a complete edubuntu track, we can start on the Monday 31 Oct and end on Saturday 5 Nov
<JaneW> not sure how wall to wall we'll be though
<JaneW> we really need that BOF list, start filling that
<JaneW> if you can be there at least Wed-Sat it would be great
<JaneW> more would be a bonus...
<JaneW> how does that sound?
<ajmitch> JaneW: ah, the BOFs page is up for suggestions (for general ubuntu work)?
<jelkner> more?
<jelkner> i'm trying to minimize the number of days i'm away from students
<jelkner> i don't mind working on sunday
<JaneW> ajmitch: yes.
<jelkner> that is better for me
<jelkner> but i'd like to limit my weekdays to 3
<JaneW> jelkner: yes but it's scheduled as an off/recreational day for everybody...
<jelkner> ok
<ogra> but please note while filling that we'll have an additional edubutnu summit thats less technical, we should concentrate onthe technical stuff at UBZ
<ogra> hey li
<ogra> flint1, even
<JaneW> ogra: is another edubunut summit confirmed yet?
<JaneW> hi flint1 
<flint1> hey ollie, sorry I am late...
<jelkner> so perhaps you don't need me for all those days
<flint1> Hi there jane...
<jelkner> i gotta run
<jelkner> let's follow up by email
<jelkner> thanks!
<ogra> JaneW, we committed to have one every 6 months, i dont know if sabdfl's commitment still stands
<flint1> hi jeff bye jeff...
<JaneW> jelkner: if you can be there at least Wed-Sat it would be great (I can only reitterate that)
* Treenaks will be there
<JaneW> ogra: we'll need to confirm before relying on it...
<ogra> JaneW, yup... but t was the wording even before we started the last one...
<Treenaks> sun/mon are planned for Ottawa, tue is travel back
<flint1> did jeff go into the need for the "snow white" filter system?
<JaneW> YES
<JaneW> *cough* Bloody Americans *cough*
<ogra> anyone interested in the technical status we're at ?
<JaneW> ogra: yes please
<flint1> absolutely
<ogra> beware my paste !
<ogra> Serious blocker bugs we have:
<ogra> - #14967 - disappearing KDE menu items in the GNOME menu
<ogra> - #12942 - NFS timeout causing second boot for thin clients
<ogra> Normal bugs being resolved during development:
<ogra> - ltsp-client-builder.udeb progress reporting is missing (time consuming to fix, every test needs a manual CD build)
<ogra> - ltsp-server postinst needs to generate the dhcp.conf file dynamically according to the selected IP adress
<ogra> Package bugs being resolved during development (to be solved this week):
<ogra> - moodle www-config-common bug
<ogra> - moodle security bug needs upgrade to v1.5.1
<ogra> Improvements since preview:
<ogra> - Missing default IP adress in the installer fixed
<ogra> - the dhcp server doesnt ask questions anymore during install (big improvement, but needs the above ltsp-server fix too to work fully automatic)
<ogra> - edubuntu-artwork now built to be used easily by all custom ubuntu distros
<ogra> - schooltool fixed and in the default install now
<ogra> - "Chicken Install" now possible :)
<ogra> Things that "could" come (no promises, depending on amount of bugs and time):
<ogra> - Probably a usplash pic reading edubuntu instead of ubuntu (if jbailey add the feature to usplash to be themeable)
<ogra> - rebranding of the installer (ubuntu/edubuntu)
<ogra> Note that we are at the very edge of CD space now (powerpc: 699MB, amd64: 647MB, i386: 635MB), 
<ogra> all further additions will require to remove something !
<Treenaks> ogra: remove ppc ;)
<ogra> its tempting :)
<sladen> ogra: the themeable bits need to go in for kubuntu too
<ogra> but we had one user installing on a mac mini today :/
<ogra> sladen, you mean usplash ? 
<ogra> thats a nice to have, but no must...
<Treenaks> sladen: they need a blue usplash? :)
<ogra> we dont need to hide our inheritance
<sladen> ogra: I think riddell is keen ;-)
<ogra> sladen, depends if jbaileys fix gets accepted before release... so i dont bet on it now
<sladen> who did the artwork, it's probably almost scriptable to render the logo, add a gradient and select the appropriate colour palette
<sladen> ogra: and if not, usplash can be split into a usplash andan usplash-artwork which differnet packages can provide
<JaneW> ogra: how's #14967 going?
<Treenaks> sladen: yeah, get it in a vector format and use kdrive + cairo to get the image up 8)
<ogra> JaneW, slow, its not easily reproducable... i hope i can build an alliance wit riddel, since he's affected too
<JaneW> ogra: you saw that Petter found it too...
<flint1> 14967 is one of those that jeff was whining about... 
<JaneW> ogra: hmmm
<ogra> JaneW, as i said yesterday, i'm trying to find a inotify specialist to help there...its not solvable by us alone i think
<JaneW> ogra: do you know anyone who fits the bill?
<JaneW> mdz reckoned such a person was not easy to find...
<ogra> JaneW, nope, probably BenC has enough kernel insight or fabbione ...
<ogra> i'll run around and poke several people after the meeting
<JaneW> ogra: ok thanks
<flint1> what about Johnathan?
<JaneW> ogra: what did you think of the feedback from the mac mini guy today?
<JaneW> He seemed to have some valid points
<ogra> JaneW, no idea what he did, thats all normal distro stuff that fails, not edubuntu specific... i tend to poit him to bugzilla
<ogra> JaneW, but nothing we can solve in edubuntu specifically
<flint1> we have not tested using the mac as a client, does this actually work?
<ogra> flint1, ltsp-server is missing the feature to build the chroot for a different arch yet, mdz promised it would come before release... then it should work
<flint1> thanks for the update my man.  Fantastic!
<ogra> i think its a bit tricky to implement, will take time for him
<ogra> which is rare onhisside)
<ogra> bah,whereismyspacekeygone?
<flint1> how many mdz clock ticks is edubuntu eating?  like half?
<JaneW> lol@ogra
<ogra> i doubt it...except the sleepless nights probably
<JaneW> flint1: something like that
<ogra> (space works again :))
<flint1> he really hates getting my 08:00 PST calls...
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> flint1: that's NOT a good idea!
<ogra> understandable
<flint1> space....the final frontier
<JaneW> don't phone prga at that time (UTC) either
<flint1> ah, if i cannot piss off mdz then what use am i?
<JaneW> flint1: that's actually pretty easilly achievable atm - we can all do it well ;)
<JaneW> ok what's next, orga any more to report?
<ogra> nope, the above is my final list
<JaneW> Has everybody seen the cool artwork in http://art.ubuntu.com/ ?
<ogra> if we have solved this, we are release ready
<JaneW> I am very impressed with our community artwork
<JaneW> esp Steve Torrefranca - he is very good.
<JaneW> ogra: np then '
<JaneW> )
<ogra> i'm not really impressed by the badger backgrounds...
<ogra> the badger is neat but i the background hurts my eyes afetr some time
<flint1> the angle here is the saturation in these graphics will appeal to younger children
<ogra> to coulored, to wild to use as a real background... the icons will disappear in the coulorfullness...
<ogra> you wont be able to distinguish the icons from the background easily...
<flint1> as you appeal to older and still older students, you will want to change the style.
<ogra> i'm not talking about taste
<flint1> with luck we can start an amusement park called "badger world" and make a packet.
<ogra> its simply not usable, try to clutter your desktop with icons and use this background... go away over the weekend and try to find a particular icon again
<ogra> they get swallowed, its to colorful
<flint1> there is a great deal to be said for human brown.
<JaneW> from a kids point of view they are great i.e. I love them :)
<JaneW> I am using one right now :)
<JaneW> they are cheerful
<flint1> Ollie, you see these through the eyes of a grown man.  Go find a child and do a test.
<JaneW> ogra: ah but you keep a cluttered desktop ;)
<ogra> JaneW, i'm talking about usability... not taste, i know kids like it colorful, but we shouldnt provide defaults that are hardly working with usablility requirtments
<sladen> this is the same reason that kids love comic sans... prettiness and I'm sure they're young eyes can cope with the strain
<sladen> s/they're/their/
<JaneW> sladen: I agree
<flint1> I swear Ollie, as we get older our sensitivity to color saturation dramaticallly increases...
<ogra> flint1, again, its not about taste...
<JaneW> esp when alcohol is involved....
<ogra> another color would probably sole it already
<flint1> lol
<ogra> solve
<JaneW> ogra: atm I have one icon in each of the quilted squares, it's funky ;)
<ogra> and note, we wont be able to include any background we have, there is not enough space... we are on the very edge
<flint1> the angle I see is that you could tell what grade or form a classroom was just through the graphic displayed
<JaneW> the space issue sucks... I believe kubuntu is battling too...
<ogra> (except we drop ppc)
<JaneW> can we shave anything anywhere?
<JaneW> ogra: doit!
<JaneW> ;)
<ogra> if we'd rop ppc we'd have 50MB on amd64 and 70 on x86 :)
<ogra> JaneW, so you'll answer all the complaints from mac users ? 
<spacey> ogra, sounds fair enough ;)
<ogra> they should have at least the standalone workstation install...
<JaneW> sure, dear mac user, get a proer PC *hide*
<ogra> heh
<sladen> ogra: just make the ppc CD bigger eg. 700MB and keep the other two at 650MB
<ogra> sladen, it *is* 700MB
<ogra> sladen, all images of edubuntu are
<ogra> we are at 699MB on ppc
<sladen> bling!
<flint1> so the graphics are limited on the power pc.  big deal!
<flint1> how is the i386 loading?
<ogra> flint1, ?
<flint1> I thought that you had cd load problems on the power pc distro.  did i get this right?
<flint1> by load i mean size
<ogra> nope, we have space probs on ppc
<ogra> ah, yes
<ogra> x86 is around 640MB
<flint1> ppc is power pc yes?
<ogra> a bit less...
<ogra> yp
<ogra> yup even
<flint1> ok then - i also mislabled x386 as i386, my bad.
<ogra> ppc is traditionally bigger... an i dont want to drop it if possible
<ogra> flint1, call it sa you like ... i386 is the right technical term...
<ogra> i'm just to lazy to type powerpc :)
<flint1> interesting, when I took assembler i always thought motorola code was more compact...
<flint1> I remain a motorola bigot!
<ogra> ppc has some tools and kernels the others dont have
<flint1> thus it comes down to balance, now your build script for ppc is out of whack from amd and i386.
<ogra> the size difference isnt avoidable...
<flint1> I honestly have never booted ppc ubuntu.
<ogra> flint1, i have no influence on build scripts
<flint1> gotcha, you just control what is in the build tree.
<ogra> thast all automated... i only can influence the app selection... i could drop some apps from ppc, but we already are down to the bare minimum
<ogra> so the user experience wouldnt be the same... i' like to avoid that
<ogra> we have all apps in by realease and have still a good Cd for all arches, we just wont be able to provide a ton of artwork
<flint1> as I am in the process of moving from DC to Vermont, my mac stuff is packed and in a quarry near Montpelior.  I cannot test or investigate ppc matters until later this month.
<ogra> i doubt there will be problems with ppc... it works in ubuntu, so it should work for us as well
<flint1> seems to me we are either killing artwork or language overlays.  Language overlays always win.
<ogra> mdz already said he cant imagine MACs in school environment, he wouldnt object to drop ppc... but i do...
<rickfitz> I assume this only affects the server. Could still use mac clients on an i386 server?
<ogra> flint1, we only have one language packa left on the CD , there is nothing you cold drop...
<ogra> rickfitz, if the missing --arch feature is added to ltsp-build-client, yes
<flint1> as servers macs are not so popular in these parts.  As clients mdz is wrong.
<ogra> rickfitz, but that doesnt affect the ppc CD
<ogra> rickfitz, since you will build it on a i386 server
<ogra> (which requires the i386 CD)
<flint1> on another topic not related to edubuntu, ...Elkner and I had a big fight over printer drivers...
<ogra> ppc is only interesting for ppc servers and ppc standlone workstations...
<JaneW> does anybody know how the docs are loking, jsgotngco has been owrking on them...
<ogra> flint1, thats something we inherit 100% from ubuntu... if you find bugs, please file them in ubuntu
<flint1> very impressive typos accompanying your discussion of docs jane...
<JaneW> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation
<flint1> gotcha ollie.
<JaneW> flint1: I tent to hit the right keys, just not in the right order... can you tell I have a wonderful musical ability too? ;)
<flint1> is Colin's stuff updated to current release?
<ogra> flint1, whats colins stuff ? 
<JaneW> flint1: I don't think so, he has all but vanished...?
<ogra> i never heard abou that ? 
<flint1> Step-by-step LTSP setup by Colin Applegate
<flint1> Colin went to college and likely got a girlfriend...
<ogra> oh, the hoary stuff...
<ogra> we should tag that deprecated
<flint1> Jane this is not misogyny it is reality...
<flint1> I will read it over and determine if we can update it in the current context.
<ogra> flint1, some stuff about sound on the thin client and local NW acess would be cool, thats something we dont provide in this relese
<ogra> s/NW/HW
<ogra> flint1, i think colin had some ideas there
<flint1> ah yes, the two hard nut, local access////
<rickfitz> I was going to ask about sound. How far off is that?
<ogra> i'll solve both for breezy+1 it wasnt  onthe plan for breezy...
<rickfitz> That's good
<flint1> I really like the fact that you can alt <F> to a character screen on the clients.  
<flint1> when you do this on a client, are you logging into the server or the local?
<ogra> currently using something like NAS should be the way to go... but we have no sane default setup yet and i personally would love to tunnel the sound throughssh like we do with the graphicsalready
<ogra> flint1, thats local
<ogra> and there is no user by default, so you cant get in anyway
<flint1> I noticed...
<ogra> we should probably drop a "DontZap" option in the xorg.conf to avoid the switching at all
<ogra> currently its helpful if you set a root PW in the chroot, you can login and read logs on the client... good for debugging
<flint1> how hard would it be to grant local access, if there is a working linux partition on the local machine?
<flint1> I am talking breezy+1 stuff here now.
<ogra> flint1, you'd have to have an nfs server on the client and mount it on the server, i dont se any other solution currently
<ogra> for breezy+1 i'll look into all solutions available...
<flint1> ...makes my head hurt to think of it.
<ogra> yes, its a back and forth through the network...
<ogra> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/pre3/29050-3.png
<ogra> jdub just posted that in -devel :) ^^^
<flint1> This is illustrative of my argument with Elkner, the printer worked for everything but the printer variable was set wrong for the PDF viewer, his position is that due to this lack of 100% operation he would prefer none.  I say keep the alt screens active, they represent a promise of future funcionality, 
<ogra> you mean the console ? 
<ogra> that'd be hard to maintain for a normal teacher...
<flint1> yes, any young mind evil enough to find the local console may be able to eventually solve the problem...
<ogra> you have to login into the chroot to make changes, all is commandline work ...
<ogra> flint1, nope, you cant login, there is no user and root is locked
<ogra> no way to log in...
<flint1> yes, I can see the point from the teachers side, a kid putting the machine in console mode effectively broke the client.
<ogra> flint1, you cant
<ogra> its technically not possible...
<flint1> is this a bug or a feature?  i reluctantly vote bug.
<ogra> except you poked around in the chroot manually indeed
<ogra> flint1, its a security requirement...
<flint1> nah, i just hit ctl alt <F1>
<ogra> no bug, rather a feature
<ogra> flint1, and ? what do you do there ?
<flint1> I was, a dicipline problem in school myself...
<flint1> looked at a console login, that was all that I could do.
<ogra> you can see the console, thats all..
<flint1> so you say you can make this fuctionality which leads no where go away?
<ogra> as i said, i think about adding a "DontZap" option to xorg.conf for release, currently its needed for debugging
<ogra> s/debugging/easier debugging/
<flint1> amen to that DontZap for release...
<ogra> i'll tald to mdz about it...
<ogra> talk
<flint1> no, s/talk/wake up and talk/ :^)
<ogra> heh
<flint1> neat.  I will look over colin's documentaion.  I can mark depreciated till it is updated please let me know if I should do this.
<ogra> flint1, if it helps our users, DOIT ! :)
<flint1> ok then.
<ogra> flint1, so we wont see colin at UBZ ?
<flint1> I will track my boy down figure this out, and report back.
<ogra> :)
<flint1> This whole going to class thing can be a real constraint.
<ogra> oh, we lost jane
<flint1> we put jane to sleep?
<ogra> who closes the meeting now ? OMG, we're stck in this meeting forever
<flint1> jeez, you start talking about caracter mode and jane goes away.  How GUI!
<ogra> ah, the mistress is back :)
<flint1> I feel the spiked heels once again!
<ogra> lol
<spacey> btw will translations be ok for edubuntu?
<spacey> applications/places/system is not translated atm
<spacey> the least i would expect :)
<ogra> spacey, everything we inherit from ubuntu will be ok...
<spacey> yeah ok its ubuntu part
<ogra> all the other stuff needs to be handled...
* ogra thinks thats a jsgotango question
<spacey> btw are there any ideas on how to handle if all the kids want to use the same login? its not possible is it?
<flint1> it is not possible is correct
<ogra> spacey, nope
<flint1> Elkner has been known to set up numerically related logins
<spacey> because the kids are too retarded to remember logins
<flint1> (the security geek within me cringes)
<spacey> guess we will make logins per pc
<flint1> that works, post the login on the pc
<spacey> yeah
<flint1> the eventual deal here is to give each munchkin their own personal directory space...
<ogra> the gconf database is bound to a user... if you log in twice, you loose the gconf settings for this user, i'd give every pupil a login... so tey keep their personal sttings all the time and learn to handle passwords etc responsible
<flint1> that becomes like their locker, or their desk.
<spacey> ogra, they are to young and not 100% so that won't work
<ogra> flint1, thats what /home is for...
<ogra> flint1, i wouldnt do anything additionally...
<\sh> spacey: how old are they? My son was loosing his password one time when he was 6 
<flint1> ollie home is exactly what I ment...
<ogra> ah :)
<spacey> \sh, its a primary school
<ogra> so 6-10 ?
<spacey> and the kids are like i said not 100%, school for difficult learning/behavior kids
<\sh> spacey: yes....my son was dealing with computers at his primary school...
<flint1> these are not munchkins yet, these stacy are ankle-biters...
<spacey> flint1, :)
<spacey> lol
<flint1> go with the map to machines, and allude to giving them their own space.  This could be and educational avenue.
<\sh> spacey: this is a good approach..give them something like a "businesscard" with their usernames and password
<\sh> thats what we did in primary school
<spacey> \sh, i will remember that :) 
<spacey> sounds like something that might work
<flint1> The sooner and ankle-biter develops an electronic identity, the sooner they graduate to munchkin status.
<ogra> flint1, do you know if elkner tested my themeable login app ? 
<spacey> at least for the older grades
<flint1> oh boy,  am i in trouble...
<spacey> anyway we don't have to reset the passwords if they forget, the local school employee will do that
<\sh> spacey: it works as well for smaller kiddings...and also for difficult learning/behaviour kids...
<ogra> i think i couls add something like usb key or smartcard authentication to it... but i need tests tests tests to have it in breezy+1
<flint1> I swear I will test it by tomorrow!  A MIGHTY OATH!!!
<\sh> ogra: the kids need an approach, it should handled as a game
<flint1> ollie this I&A question is most delicate.  It relates to child development as much as technology.
<flint1> Ollie the game idea is facinating... What is your angle?
<Mithrandir> ogra: I think adding getting opensc support integrated into breezy+1 would rock.
<Mithrandir> ogra: only problem is the cards cost a little bit each, and so do the readers.
<ogra> i nearly rewrote gdm for that temeable ldm thing... now adding features should be easy... 
<flint1> opensc is not for either ankle-biters or munchkins, is if for the next level after?
<ogra> flint1, \sh make some mockups how it should be, i can build it in...
<\sh> Mithrandir: thinking about those sun solaris enterprise extention..
<Mithrandir> flint1: opensc is a framework for smartcards.
<ogra> (or write ups if no mockups)
<JaneW> hi...
<flint1> yea i got opensc,
<Mithrandir> flint1: so it would be sunray-like, except you wouldn't have to buy sun and run solaris.
<\sh> ogra: it's nothing technical...this is educational and psychological approach ;) 
<ogra> its a feature i'm missing since ages in gdm...
<ogra> \sh, yes, make me a step by setp list how such a game should look like
<Mithrandir> flint1: if we manage to get nx rocking for breezy+1, it'll mean you can disconnect your session and such too
<flint1> keep in mind that spacey's question related to very young children.  in the case of these very young you map to the machine and go on with education.
<\sh> ogra: how did u start in primary school?
<\sh> u got your card with your name ;) and you were responsible for this card
<ogra> flint1, as i said, if i get a writeup how such a game should look like, i can implement it
<\sh> and u were proud to have this card
<flint1> lemme think abou this game idea some more ollie...
<ogra> oki
<spacey> Mithrandir, FreeNX works in breezy perfectly
<flint1> suppose you could not join the "game" unless you had an identy (eg I&A)
<spacey> got it installed succesfully on Edubuntu server as well
<ogra> spacey, its not even *in* breezy
<spacey> ogra, well external repo ;)
<spacey> but it works
<spacey> :p
<ogra> i know... that has a reason, you know ? 
<Mithrandir> spacey: the packaging sucks.  Which is why I'm working on fixing that.
<spacey> second X codebase?
<ogra> spacey, see Mithrandir 
<flint1> i believe that someone has been at the apt repository, FreeNX is a good thing.
<spacey> Mithrandir, the packaging is ok i think, i don't mean the one in backupports repo
<spacey> oh the packaging in general
<flint1> spacy, have you looked at someting called "teacher tool"?
<spacey> yeah that might be true
<spacey> flint1, nop, i should?
<ogra> flint1, doesnt work with our ltsp implementation
<flint1> it may be broken right now, look carefully.
<flint1> it allowed the teacher to display to all desktops as well as lookin in on any desktop.
<flint1> way better than a video projector.
<ogra> flint1, it monitors remote X11 sessions... we done even use X for transport in our ltsp...
<flint1> I know, can we ever get that functionality back?
<ogra> flint1, thats what SCP is planned for, but i havent had the time to finish it in time for breezy
<flint1> another breezy +1 item then.
<ogra> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/pre3/29050-3.png
<ogra> oops
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/SCP.png
<ogra> thats what i meant...
<flint1> very nice, and not very big as a file....
<ogra> the network button will show a little screenshot of the desktop, the right pane will list all running apps with n option to stop them
<spacey> nice
<ogra> if you click the network button, the tool will automaticaly establish a VNC connection to the students desktp
<ogra> 90% works, but the missing 10% are taking much time...
<flint1> ollie if you implemented teachertool with FreeNX could teacher tool be made to work?
<ogra> thats why it became a dapper item
<spacey> ogra, available for testing?
<ogra> flint1, implementing teacher tool would mean rewrite teacher tool
<ogra> spacey, nope
<ogra> flint1, thats more work than finishing SCP
<flint1> ok, i know the original author
<flint1> hey Johnathan
<flint1> sorry jonathan...
<flint1> gotta loose that "h"
<ogra> where is our chairwoman ? 
<ogra> JaneW, ? 
<flint1> The student control panel is nice.  The viceral real time control that teachertool gave is potent.
* ogra feels lost in the meeting without leadership
<flint1> bet she is making tea or some other such commonwealth activity...
<ogra> flint1, its mainly incorporating all teacher tool functionality, just with the right backends for edubuntu...
<ogra> flint1, yes, but i'm german... you know we germans need a leader ;)
<flint1> can you actually share and view desktops?
<JaneW> ogra: I'm multitasking but here...
<ogra> flint1, the teacher can VNC to the pupils desktop...
<flint1> ...give me one generation of german youth....
<JaneW> this one hour meeting has a habit of dragging on to 2 hours at least...
<flint1> I was writing up a high level wish list for edubuntu... any ideas
<ogra> JaneW, since we drift into #edubuntu chatiing since 20min, cn we adjourn the meeting and move over to #edubuntu ? 
<flint1> that's because I am always late!
<JaneW> flint1: add to BOF list please, so it doesn;t get lost
<flint1> bof url?
<JaneW> I wish it would just work!
<JaneW>  ;)
<ogra> JaneW, what ? 
<JaneW> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuBelowZero
<flint1> Did you go and get tea jane?
<flint1> thanks jane...
<JaneW> flint1: not yet
<JaneW> ogra: joke...
<JaneW> ogra: that was my wish for the wish list (i.e. all the bugs could dissappear)
<ogra> JaneW, i just didnt understand whatshould just work :)
<ogra> JaneW, ah... at least we have it "chicken install" ready since todays build :)
<ogra> i.e. put some seeds on the enter key, put a chicken in front of the pc and boot it with te edubuntu CD ... in one hour the chicken fnished your install
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> ogra: will the chicken be cooked by the end too?
<ogra> untested yet though
<JaneW> that would be cool...
<Mithrandir> ogra: does the partitioner default to "eat my partitions"?
<ogra> lest see, thats an extra installer option, i'll talk to colin about a oven.udeb
<flint1> the install works ok.
<ogra> Mithrandir, its the same partitioner as ubuntu uses with the same defaults
<Mithrandir> ogra: then you need to put some seeds on the left arrow key too
<ogra> Mithrandir, ah, damned iforgot...
<ogra> so only a 99.9% chicken install :)
<flint1> if it is going to eat partitions, why not call it cookie_monster?  There are draditions...
<ogra> lol
<ogra> so can we close the meeting and move the common chatting over to #edubuntu ? 
<ogra> JaneW, ^^ ?
<JaneW> yes please
<JaneW> ta
<ogra> thanks jane
<JaneW> thanks again for a great achievement with the preview
<flint1> Ollie, I damed you with too faint praise, forgive me.
<ogra> to be honest, todays daily is what i wanted for preview...
<flint1> you done good Ollie.
<ogra> its technically far beyond the preview
<JaneW> cool
<flint1> ok I'm outa here...later youse guys (and gals).
<flint1> bye
<JaneW> so Edubuntu 1.0 can be called the Pecking Chicken relase...
<JaneW> bye
<ogra> but we have only 6 bugs left now... so i look forward to release with a calming feeling...
<ogra> (as long as we solve 14967 and 12942 during the net 4 weeks)
<JaneW> nod
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:JaneW] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 21 Sept 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council
<Yann2> hi
<Yann2> i had a question.. who s in charge at canonical for shipit?
<Lathiat> Yann2: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/shipit/
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-24
<Sturmkind> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-25
<cyphase> brb
<smurfix> Is there a date+time for the next TB meeting? Wiki still says Sept 6th ...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] :  Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 21 Sept 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Sept 20:00 UTC:  LoCo Teams  | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Sep 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council
<sivang> smurfix: I was also wondering
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:smurfix] :  Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 20 Sept 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard | 21 Sept 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Sept 20:00 UTC:  LoCo Teams  | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Sep 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council
<spiral> hello
<ogra> spiral, still one h to go :)
<spiral> ogra: yeah, I thought it was that... 'still having difficulties with DST...
<ogra> date -u is your friend :)
<spiral> ogra: thanks for the tip :-)
<opi> LoCO meeting will start in 1h, am I right? :)
<dholbach>  loco team meeting is tomorrow
<dholbach> today is TB meeting :)
<opi> HA HA
<opi> who's idiot!
* opi is! :D
<opi> dholbach, BTW: how's Berlin? :)
<dholbach> opi: it is charming
<dholbach> absolutely charming
<opi> dholbach, I'm going to pay a visit there, to my friends
<dholbach> oh wow cool
<opi> dholbach, maybe we can have a beer or something
<ogra> its just lacking a government right now :)
<dholbach> be sure to tell me when
<dholbach> ogra: not only berlin :)
<ogra> heh
<opi> dholbach, my girlfriend was there month ago, but I didn't want to disturb you at your moving 
<dholbach> opi: yeah, i probably wasn't even there
<opi> ogra, well, anarchy is better than no goverment at all
<dholbach> opi is getting philosophical
<dholbach> :)
<opi> :P
<opi> TB is Thinkers Board, right?
<dholbach> exactly
<opi> I have to set up my Blackberry then, I can't miss another CoC/LoCo meeting
<opi> have fun with TB meeting
<dholbach> thank you
<nickm_> iv never been to one of these before, are they fairly formal or can any butt in when they have something to say?
<nickm_> within reason
<sivang> TB meeting still on?
<nickm_> 32 mins
<nickm_> to go
<nickm_> 31
<Kamion> people need to stick to the agenda otherwise the meeting becomes interminable
<Kamion> which is pretty dire for those people whose jobs require them to stay up late in order to get to them
<Kamion> out of courtesy, please try not to derail them too much
<nickm_> kamion, i understand, thanks
<sivang> Kamion: can I request review for possibly main/motu maintainership? I've collected some work I've done and proposed myself as a member for main
<Kamion> that said, you're welcome to contribute pertinent comments; they aren't moderated
<Kamion> sivang: I'm not a TB member and don't have power over that
<sivang> Kamion: oh
<sivang> ok
<\sh> sivang: where r u on the LP team lists as proposed member?
<sivang> \sh: I was for core devels (main) but couldn't find the MOTU one
<ogra> sivang, start with member first
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev <- motu
<ogra> and after youre approved https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+members
<ogra> ^^ real motu
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev/ <- main 
<ogra> ubuntu-dev is "uploaders"...
<dholbach> because we have some unreal MOTUs as well
<dholbach> :-p
<\sh> oh ok
<ogra> motu is the malone group etc
<\sh> but i thought the new ones should use this list to be approved 
<ogra> yes
<ogra> motu is only after youre approved...
<\sh> dholbach: unreal motus?
<dholbach> \sh: exactly :)
<sivang> ogra: I'm already a member, please, since about ages ago
<dholbach> \sh: if you look at the list of MOTUs and try to remember, when they appeared the last time, you'll get what i mean :)
<ogra> sivang, in launchpad ? 
<sivang> ogra: no, not in launchapd
<\sh> real motus are living in castle greyscull...unreal motus are driving around with big jim?
<ogra> sivang, you see...
<\sh> dholbach: oh that u mean
<ogra> sivang, its technically impossible to become uploader in launchpad without ubuntite status
<Kamion> sivang: propose yourself for membership of the ubuntumembers team and I'll fix that for you
<sivang> Kamion: ok, thanks
<ogra> sivang, i guess you'll have to wait until UBZ to have a valid key to upload it to launchpad
* ogra will happily sign sivang immediately :)
<ogra> Kamion, launchpad allows that without signed CoC and without uploaded key ? i thought that not possible
<\sh> dholbach: actually you will see me again for ubuntu 6.04 ;)
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> i hope so
<sivang> Kamion: done
<sivang> ogra: thanks :-D
<ogra> :)
<\sh> dholbach: it's a promise :)
<sivang> \sh: what do you guys mean unreal motus ?
<ivoks> sivang: fake motus :)
* sivang wonders if keysigning parties will be managed through launchpad as well..
<sivang> Kamion: Should I upload my public key as well? (given it's not signed by anyone yet)
<sivang> Kamion: (or wait for UBZ keysigning )
<\sh> hey mvo 
<ivoks> sivang: upload it
* mvo waves 
<ogra> hi mvo
<Kamion> ogra: no idea.
<Kamion> sivang: no harm in uploading i
<Kamion> t
<Kamion> sivang: and you might as well try signing the CoC with it and see what lp does
<sivang> Kamion: ok, using armor or bin signing ?
<Kamion> it tells you IIRC
<Kamion> gpg --clearsign
<sivang> yes, armor then , thanks
<Kamion> follow the links from your home page on lp
* sivang goes there now
<Kamion> ogra: well, LP seems quite happy to let me approve sivang for ubuntumembers
<ogra> heh
<ogra> that shouldnt work without a valid key... lets point it out at UBZ...
<sivang> Kamion: yay thanks!
<\sh> ogra: u mean unsigned key
<sivang> finding bugs whereever I go...;-)
<ogra> \sh, unsigned == not valid, yes
<ivoks> ogra: shouldn't i be on ubuntu-dev? since, i do uploads :)
<ogra> ivoks, yes
<ivoks> ok
<ogra> ivoks, propose yourself there
<ivoks> i just did
<ogra> i    sentout a mail when we switched, you somehow slipped through
<ivoks> story of my life :)
<ogra> sorry :)
<ivoks> it's ok :)
<sivang> meh
<sivang> Launchpad could not import GPG key, the reason was:HTTP Error 500: OK at http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xD2513586&op=get.Check if you published it correctly in the global key ring (using gpg --send-keys KEY) and that you add entered the fingerprint correctly (as produced by gpg --fingerprint YOU). Try later or cancel your request.
<Kamion> ogra: no, "valid" for a key means that it's properly formed and can produce correct signatures etc.
<Kamion> equating valid with signed will confuse cryptographers :-)
<Kamion> sivang: gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --send-keys D2513586
<ogra> Kamion, hmm, i would see signing as a form of validation :)
<ogra> Kamion, but i also would see binary data still as data *g*, so i dont count here :)
<Florob> ogra: it is an aproval of vaildation, not meaning it can't be vaild in the first place
<Kamion> (what would non-binary data be? ternary?)
<ogra> still data...
<ogra> opposed to programs or scripts
<jbailey> Kamion: unary data.  It's what you get when you unplug the computer.
<jbailey> All zeros...
<\sh> hmm....
<ogra> heh
<ogra> lets not get philosophcal :)
<nickm_> sivang, you need to give it a min, it does work, but i found you had to wate for whatever to update
<nickm_> s/wate/wait
<Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~>$ /usr/lib/xscreensaver/pyro
<Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~>$ echo $?
<Kamion> 0
<Kamion> looks like a program to me :-)
<sivang> nickm_: ok, now it worked :)
<ogra> Kamion, sure... 
<nickm_> :)
<JaneW> hi all
<pitti> Hi
<ivoks> hi
<ogra> Kamion, i already committed to change the name to -hacks ... just not now 
<lathiat> yo
<lathiat> ogra: haha your getting bashed here to? ;)
<ogra> lathiat, i start getting used to it...
<doko> hi
<lathiat> poor ogra
* lathiat gives ogra a personal shield
<mdz> good morning, everyone
<Keybuk> good evening
<mdz> sabdfl is away this week and won't be able to attend
<ogra> evening
* ogra hugs lathiat 
<dholbach> hi
<Keybuk> where away ~= sunning himself on a beach somewhere
<\sh> ok 20UTC
<JaneW> Keybuk: SA afaik
<mdz> there are currently 9 pending MOTU members in launchpad
<Keybuk> it's SA next week, beach this week
<mdz> I'm not sure how many are existing MOTUs who need to be added to the team, and how many are new
<sivang> rehi all
<mdz> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+members
<Keybuk> weird, ubuntu-devel is "Ubuntu X Maintainers"
<mdz> Ante Karamati ?
<bddebian> brb
<ivoks> here
<ivoks> mdz: /me is Ante
<ivoks> :)
<seb128> hi
<ogra> mdz, Michiel Sikkes, Ante Karamati, Chuck, Jorge Daza Garca-Blanes are motus
<dholbach> they need upload privileges afaik
<ogra> dholbach, they have
<Keybuk> hmm, remind me, how do we see pending members again?
<dholbach> oh they do
<dholbach> alright
<ivoks> we have
<Keybuk> ah, s'ok, found the page
<Keybuk> we've approved ivoks already, no?
<mdz> ogra: I don't remember Jorge; please send me mail with the TB meeting date so I can verify
<ivoks> yes
<ogra> Keybuk, yes in may
<mdz> that leaves:
<mdz>  Benjamin Montgomery  	 Dmitri Alenitchev  	 Jorge Daza Garca-Blanes  	 Matthias Urlichs  	 StefanPotyra  	 lee johnson  
<ogra> mdz, phew, i have to dig that up 
<\sh> StefanPotyra is sistopy...
<mdz> if your name is on that list and you're here, please speak up
<Keybuk> are you sure we've never approved smurfix?! :p
<ogra> mdz, he is comadreja and did many uploads as MOTU already
<dholbach> sistpoty is stefanpotyra who isn't here
<smurf> mdz: drop me (=MatthiasUrlichs =smurfix), that was a mis-click
<mdz> smurf: done
<sivang> mdz: I would like to be considered for some kind of maintainership, I already worked on main quite some.
<smurf> I admit I was kindof less visible in the past months, but ... ;-)
<sivang> (lpi, g-s-t, g-c-m etc..)
<ogra> sivang, want g-s-s fits good :)
<sivang> ogra: yeah, why not, what is it? :)
<Keybuk> evil
<sivang> kidding
<JaneW> heh
<ogra> sivang, sty this meeting and you'll know it
<ogra> ;)
<mdz> smurf: you're already in ubuntu-core-dev
<sivang> gnomse-screen-save, I know ;-)
<Keybuk> you know that bit at the end of Time Bandits, where his parents die and everyone leaves him alone in the street?  it's like that
<smurf> mdz: exactly
<Keybuk> but more so
<ogra> Keybuk, he still has the firefighter left :)
* sivang wonders about what Keybuk is mumbeling about as always
<mdz> so: Benjamin Montgomery    Dmitri Alenitchev  lee johnson
<mdz> any of those folks here today?
<ogra> bmonty seems away....
<\sh> i pinged him on motu
<ogra> and i think he's not member yet
<ogra> hmm, neighborlee isnt here either
<ogra> and i have no idea who Dmitri Alenitchev is
<mdz> ok
<mdz> moving on to the next agenda item, then
<ogra> *sigh*
<mdz> xscreensaver vs. gnome-screensaver
<bddebian> ack
<pitti> is anybody actually favoring g-s-s?
<pitti> anybody apart from sabdfl, that is?
* Keybuk buys some peanuts from the seller in the corner
<Keybuk> rumour has it that ogra suggested it to him <g>
<mdz> I'd like to hear from seb128
<ogra> seb128 ??
<sivang> pitti: it's less secure then xss , that's why many are against it?
<ogra> Keybuk, :PPPP
<dholbach> i wasn't bitten hard by gnome-screensaver, but that's all i can say
<smurf> what pity that sabdfl isn't here *ducks&runs*
<lathiat> sivang: how is it less secure?
<pitti> if the only issue is "we need to convince sabdfl that we need to postpone it" then there's not much to discuss about here
<mdz> sivang: no one has said any such thing
<ogra> dholbach, because you don play with the settings
<mdz> the issue at hand is that switching to gnome-screensaver has been a destabilizing change
<pitti> sivang: not less secure, but it lacks important features and has serious bugs
<sivang> mdz: k, sorry I got the wrong impression then from previous IRC talks I glanced at..
<Keybuk> pitti: which serious bugs?  #s ?
<pitti> sivang: see jdub's email on u-devel
<Keybuk> when I did my research earlier, nobody could actually quote #s, just potentials
<mdz> the rationale for the change was to benefit from the enhanced unlock dialog
<lathiat> I personally think it should be punted back as it doesn't seem to quite be ready and is missing various features people want, among other things, none of the apps with xscreensaver integrationw ill work, e.g. movie players, i thought gnomescreensaver-command might be a dropin-replacement but it doesn't appear to be ?
<mdz> but it has created more problems than anticipated
<ivoks> yes
<seb128> mdz: we talked about it just before the feature freeze. I said I was a bit busy to make the default config changes, hacks package split, etc and nobody stepped ... for me it was delayed to after 5.10. Imho that's a bit short to make something really cool with it now and we should stay with xscreensaver for 5.10
<pitti> Keybuk: several people were bitten by lockouts, screensaver starts right when you are typing, that sort of things
<ivoks> pitti: true
<ivoks> happens to me all the time
<mdz> it broke compatibility with an API (xscreensaver-command) used by many other packages
<ogra> pitti, that was a bug in the default schemas file, its fixed
<pitti> ogra: nice
<mdz> also required changes in ltsp, casper, etc.
<ogra> mdz, and probably with kde
<seb128> mdz: I've no special issue with gnome-screensaver, it works fine and Suse use it for their new version and did a secutiry audit. Upstream is responsive too. But we have no real user feedback, it lacks some features and could use some UI polish
<mdz> and it seems likely that there are more we haven't discoveerd
<Keybuk> it does seem to lack xss's support for getting out of the way when other programs (totem, gnome-typing-monitor, etc.) need the screen
<pitti> still, what about misssing features? power management and programmability (switch off by video players)?
<mdz> ogra: kubuntu isn't using gnome-screensaver
<ogra> mdz, i'm not clear with the lde issues yet
<ogra> g-s-s conflicts xss
<mdz> pitti: I haven't heard about that; can you  elaborate?
<lathiat> not having a xscreensaver-command replacement is a pretty major thing imho
<pitti> mdz: what Keybuk said
<ogra> kde seems to use a wrapper around xss
<\sh> ogra: true
<seb128> pitti: me neither
<seb128> pitti: why people don't bug about such issues?
<mdz> I'm all for getting the bugs filed
<lathiat> Keybuk: yeh thats because of xscreensaver-command
<pitti> seb128: Jeff wrote about it on ubuntu-devel
<mdz> but the matter at hand is the question of whether to back out to xscreensaver
<mdz> does anyone else have information to present that hasn't been put forward already?
<ogra> its the lack of configurability that bothers people, i pointed that out to sabdfl
<pitti> in terms of our freeze status it would be wise to stay with the proven thing we have
<seb128> pitti: you guys just come with mails describing issue than nobody pushed to ubuntu or upstream for months, just curious to have some real bugs to point
<jbailey> lock-by-default was a bit surprising.
<sivang> pitti: how was it pushed into breezy after FF and PF ?
<ivoks> ogra: hm, gss blacks out on me, even if newest version...
<ogra> sivang, sbdfl
<smurf> seb128: screensavers kicking in when you don't want them to has been around for a rather long time, I for one am much too complacent about longstanding annoyance-level bugs like that
<mdz> sivang: it was granted an exception
<pitti> seb128: sorry, I have it running for only 2 hours now
<sivang> mdz,ogra : k
<seb128> pitti: k, so that's just "somebody said he had issue" with not concrete fact ... we should get real bugs to fix issues :)
<ogra> ivoks, 15805
<seb128> pitti: I use it for 2 months and it works fine for me
<mdz> does anyone have something to say in defense of keeping gnome-screensaver for 5.10?
<smurf> apart from the nicer dialog => not really
<ogra> sabdfl wants it ? 
<seb128> pitti: (not than I'm arguing we should use it)
<Keybuk> gnome-screensaver is the right choice, I've been playing with it and it's very cute, and probably exactly what we're looking for in terms of a screensaver
<smurf> ogra: That is a defense in what way? ;-)
<Keybuk> it's certainly going to be better than xss from what I can tell, support dbus notifications and whatnot
<ogra> smurf, since i'm the guy who gets the bugs assinged... ALL OF THEM
<JaneW> mdz: jdub supports gnome-screensaver, but not for 5.10
<seb128> same for me
<ogra> smurf, (all ways i mean)
<sivang> Keybuk: however, power management support is important for good laptop usability
<seb128> I'm all for it, and it'll probably go with GNOME 2.4 upstream
<seb128> 2.14
<Keybuk> sivang: fwict it's going to get that
<seb128> but not for 5.10
<ogra> i'm neutral, i just want to know what i'll be working on... i cant work on both
<mdz> ok, sounds like we're prepared for a vote
<ogra> and gss will require still a lot of work on the lockscreen for mpt's changes...
<mdz> Keybuk: ?
<Keybuk> unfortunately it doesn't use the same API as the existing tool, and isn't yet fully developed; so I'd love to see it for dapper, but think it was really too late for it to be considered for breezy
<doko> +1
<pitti> +1
<mdz> only TB members have a vote here
<Keybuk> so if I had to pick between them today, I'd say xss today, and gss in three weeks when dapper opens
<pitti> sorry
<mdz> Keybuk: you have to pick between them today ;-)
<ogra> mdz, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreenSaver in case you didnt know it yet
<Keybuk> xss then :)
<mdz> I'm for reverting to xscreensaver
<mdz> motion carried
<JaneW> *yay*
<ogra> who is talking to sabdfl about it ? 
* bddebian hides
<mdz> ogra: that's my job
<ogra> ok 
<sivang> ogra: would you be interested in discussing what love gss needs after meeting, or at UBZ?
<mdz> next item is from Keybuk
<ogra> sivang, UBZ sounds good
<mdz> upgrades from Debian releases
<Keybuk> yes
<mpt> it's on the UBZ BoF list
<ogra> yup
<Keybuk> the question is simple, do we want an upgrade from warty or sarge to breezy to work
<mdz> UBZ is a bit too late to consider upgrades to Breezy ;-)
<Keybuk> they don't right now :p
<ogra> mdz, lol
<sivang> mdz: hehe, right 
<ivoks> Keybuk: ? i did couple of them
<Keybuk> if we're happy to say "sorry, upgrade to hoary first" then we should just make sure it's said and agreed
<mdz> Keybuk: I'm not interested in skipping from warty->breezy without going via hoary
<mdz> that isn't much to ask
<Keybuk> how about sarge->breezy?
<mdz> sarge is certainly a worthwhile target
<pitti> that would be more interesting
<pitti> did anybody try this?
<mdz> but it depends on what the issues are
<ivoks> yeah, i did
<ivoks> sarge with X -> breezy
<mdz> are there any packages in sarge newer than in breezy?
<mdz> I 
<Keybuk> I've tried it a couple of times; the principal problem is that our modular xorg packages only replace/conflict the monolithic xorg packages and not xfree86 (as found in sarge)
<ivoks> no, iirc
<Keybuk> I don't think there are any newer in sarge
<mdz> I think we ought to support upgrades from sarge to breezy, but not necessarily at all costs
<ivoks> upgrade was smooth
<mdz> if there are major complicating factors, we have higher-priority work
<ivoks> there was only one issue...
<pitti> Keybuk: so it's merely missing conflicts/replaces?
<\sh> we would have some problems with some kde packages...amarok is one of them but this only applies to kubuntu(-desktop) when installed
<\sh> I have to find out how many packages are different from sarge regarding kde stuff
<Keybuk> my gut feeling would be that it's a "nice to have" if it's cheap timewise to do
<mdz> Keybuk: did you file bugs?
<mdz> let's get the bugs in Bugzilla, and prioritize them along with the rest
<Keybuk> nope, wanted to see whether they were worthwhile first
<Keybuk> will file tomorrow
<mdz> ok
<mdz> anything more on upgrades?
<mdz> let's not make an official statement until we know what we're dealing with
<\sh> so no warty -> breezy without hoary... and sarge -> breezy nth
<sivang> mdz: are we going to use only malone at some point? (the multiple open bugs both on b.u.c and malone can cause some confusion)
<mdz> sivang: yes
<ogra> sivang, MOTU tries to sort themout from time to time
<mdz> any other business for the TB meeting?
<Keybuk> nope from me
<bddebian> Wanna talk about fontforge? ;-P
* bddebian ducks
<sivang> lol
<pitti> maybe default packages in server install? (openssh-server)
<pitti> there were some questions about it recently
<Keybuk> let's wait until jeff's customer turns up to defend that
<mdz> pitti: it's too late to create a new seed for breezy
<Kamion> server installs don't have to depend on seeds, FYI
<mdz> currently server = minimal+standard, and we can't put servers there
<Kamion> it's just a preseed variable set by cdimage
<pitti> Keybuk: btw, I thought about it again, I think not installing any server package is fine
<Kamion> base-config     base-config/package-selection   string ~tubuntu-standard
<ivoks> :/
<mdz> Kamion: hmm
<Kamion> (I'm not defending or criticising the proposal, just a point of information)
<mdz> I always run openssh-server on servers
<mdz> but then, I also always run it on desktops
<jbailey> I don't run it on firewalls or internet facing-machines.
<ivoks> idea of headless installation falls apart if after install you don't have ssh access
<mdz> (my own, not others')
<jbailey> That's what serial consoles are for.
<Kamion> my personal opinion is that it's best dealt with by documenting clearly that 'server' is just a base install on top of which you can install a server system of your choice, but doesn't actually install any servers automatically
<\sh> mdz: on servers sshd is a must...on desktops a nice to have when u need it
<sivang> I always get annoyed seeing it was not already installed when installing a new server
<mdz> ivoks: the issues are the same during install and after
<Kamion> ivoks: if you're doing an actual headless installation, d-i will install openssh-server.
<sivang> it comes as default for RHEL3 and SLES9
<mdz> ivoks: you need a console for installaton
<Kamion> but most people aren't
<\sh> mdz: and it depends how we see our server install
<ivoks> mdz: kickstart?
<Kamion> and that's not what our server install is
<Kamion> ivoks: kickstart is orthogonal
<ivoks> Kamion: well, ok :)
<mdz> my gut feeling is that it's generally the right thing for servers
<ivoks> agree
<sivang> I second mdz
* pitti too
<jbailey> *shrug*
<ogra> ++
<jbailey> I can always remove it on my boxes.
<mdz> but I'm reluctant to make such a change without broader input from the community
<sivang> then we should thread it up on u-d
<mdz> sivang: I smell a deliverable
<Kamion> if we do make such a change, it's even more important to document it stunningly clearly
<pitti> after breezy then?
<Kamion> given our trumpeted security policy elsewhere
<Kamion> and, as I mentioned elsewhere, openssh doesn't exactly have a perfect security record
<Florob> hmm... IMHO there shouldn't be objections to openssh-server, most distributions install it always anyway.
<jbailey> Florob: It's one more port to get hacked.  But few objections beyond that.
<mdz> do we have a facility for doing simple web polls?
<Kamion> (no other ssh server is really any better as far as I know - openssh is just the best audited because it's the most popular, and so people find the most bugs in it)
<jbailey> Florob: But not 'none'
<ivoks> we could be special, no put telnetd-ssl :)
<Kamion> but backporting openssh security fixes can notoriously be a pig sometimes, and I think we want to think about that rather carefully with regard to dapper's five-year support
<ivoks> s/no/and
<mdz> ok, let's defer this until we have more information
<Kamion> although obviously we have to support openssh for five years anyway
<mdz> any other business?
<Kamion> so maybe that's not relevant
<mdz> it's lunchtime over here
<ogra> mdz, get some food then :)
<sivang> mdz: bon appetite 
<mdz> ok, adjourned then
<mdz> thanks, all
<dholbach> thanks mdz
<pitti> good evening everybody
<\sh> thx mdz
<ogra> thanks mdz 
<bddebian> Wow, that was quick :-)
<pitti> mdz: enjoy your meal
<ivoks> bye everbody
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<sivang> thanks mdz 
<sivang> nigh bddebian 
<JaneW> night
<JaneW> please all remeber to add your suggestions for UBZ BOFs
<JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
<\sh> I did already
<\sh> should i put my name behind it?
<ajmitch> JaneW: shall we flesh out the deferred ones?
* ajmitch is going to book his flights in a few hours >:)
<jbailey> JaneW: Do LP BoFs go there as well as distro?
<\sh> ajmitch: gogogo
<bddebian> w00t ajmitch
<jbailey> ajmitch: !!! \o/
<JaneW> ajmitch: yes please
<JaneW> jbailey: are the LP ones all public? If so I'd say yes...
<JaneW> but we could make a separate page for them if there is a reason to do so.
<ajmitch> I guess there could be a lot of them cluttering that page
* \sh needs to find a print shop for the new motu shirts...
<ogra> ajmitch, YOU COME ??
<jbailey> ajmitch: I told him how lovely Montral is. =)
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch> ogra: yes
<ogra> HOORAY !!
<ajmitch> I need a holiday ;)
<ogra>  wow, who has put UbuntuClusters on the BOF list... cool
<ogra> ajmitch, haha
<FLeiXiuS> I leave my clustering to OpenBSD sorry Ubuntu ;-)
<FLeiXiuS> OBSD runs a lot faster then my tweaked to all hell ubuntu server.
<sladen> D'oh.
<StacyWebb> greeting
<StacyWebb> or rather greetings
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-18
<toosa> ping
<toosa> hallo ...
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 18 Sep 22:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 20:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Sep 04:00: Technical Board | 28 Sep 04:00: Edubuntu
<irvin> @sked manila
<jsgotangco> your puny filipino slang won't work here irvin!
<jsgotangco> :D
<irvin> :p
<irvin> @sched manila
<irvin> bah
<jsgotangco> @schedule manila
<Ubug2> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 18 Sep 22:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 20:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Sep 04:00: Technical Board | 28 Sep 04:00: Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> :D
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubug2> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 19 Sep 00:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 22:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 22 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Sep 06:00: Technical Board | 28 Sep 06:00: Edubuntu
<MehdiHassanpour> -
<blaa_> hi hi
<jono> hey
<blaa_> how do I dump database from gentoo to ubuntu
<elkbuntu> this isnt a support channel
<blaa_> sorry
<dsas> blaa_: Please see #ubuntu for support.
<blaa_> dsas, thx
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubug2] : Current meeting: LoCo | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<jono> ok we will start in about 5mins :)
<jsgotangco> dum dummmmm
<jono> :P
<freeflying> hi all
<elkbuntu> how many people are here for this LoCo meeting so far?
<jono> ok
<david`bgk> I'm, but from office, so not really active
<jono> yeah, could everyone who is in the meeting say so :)
* freeflying from ubuntu-cn
<MehdiHassanpour> me too ;)
<elkbuntu> me, ubuntu-au
<newz2000> me, ubuntu webmaster
<jsgotangco> yay
<jono> ok, could someone else also save the log, my IRC client is a bit screwy
<Gekitsuu> I'm here for the meeting
<freeflying> jono: fabbione has log
<elkbuntu> surely there's a logbot in here
<jono> cool
<jono> right, lets begin then
<jono> I know a bunch of you already,but let me introduce myself
<freeflying> jsgotangco: hi, long time haven;t seen you :)
<jono> I am Jono Bacon and I the Ubuntu Community Manager working at Canonical
<jono> when I started, one of the key things I wanted to work on is LoCo teams
<jono> I think that LoCo teams are really centrally important to a strong Ubuntu with plenty of vitality and growth
<jono> we have a number of teams who have formed, and some teams are very strong and some need some help and assistance
<jono> when I started, one thing was clear though
<jono> there was *very little* communication between teams
<jono> we had a bunch of teams, many in regionally close areas, but with little or no communication
<jono> so, the first plan of action on my "list of things to do to make LoCo teams kiss ass" was to help teams collaborate together
<elkbuntu> o.O
<jono> erm
<jono> kick ass :P
<jono> hehe
<Gnomonic> Right.
<Gnomonic> Got a bit scared, there.
<jono> ass kissing is tolerated though if needed :P
<jono> so, to help with this I have tried to get loco-contacts on its feet again
<elkbuntu> indeed, try avoid the hairy ones though
<jono> and that list is intended for groups to talk together and share experiences
<elkbuntu> i think many would agree you've made a good start on that, jono :)
<jsgotangco> well
<jsgotangco> some teams do communicate
<MehdiHassanpour> this sharing is very important
<jsgotangco> in a server POV
<jsgotangco> ;)
<jono> thanks elkbuntu 
<jsgotangco> especially those sharing in one server
<MehdiHassanpour> but how
<jsgotangco> but that's it
<jono> so, communication is clearly important
<jono> now, there are a few other plans too:
<jono>  * tidy up the New Teams on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
<jono> there are lots of teams on that list who have not been accepted as official teams yet
<jono> I plan on getting to that when I return from my holiday around oct 7th
<jono> also
<jono> there is a combination of many different types of team, some confident and experienced, and some not so
<jono> I was thinking of methods in which we can level the playing field out a little, and one of the plans is for LoCo teams to mentor each other
<jono> some teams are very strong and active, and they could help get teams on their feet
<jono> you can think of this as an outsourcing of myself - I just don't have time to attend to *every* team, so mentoring helps spread the load
<jono> I have been working with elkbuntu on this, and there is going to be a trial of one team mentoring another and then we will open it up to the full LoCo community
<elkbuntu> you also cant speak every language either ;)
<jono> hehe
<jono> I can barely speak english :P
<elkbuntu> ;)
<jono> so, the aim of this meeting is to share this progress
<elkbuntu> but anyway yeah, should we go into more details?
<jono> but to also get ideas for ways we can work together
<jono> elkbuntu, sure, do you want to fill people in :)
<elkbuntu> sure
<Gnomonic> Interruption: Does this meeting have an agenda, or is it just free-talking?
<jono> :)
<MehdiHassanpour> jono, how and where we can get other teams experiences ?
<jono> Gnomonic, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
<jono> fairly short agenda
<jono> MehdiHassanpour, we will discuss that soon
<jono> elkbuntu, shoot :)
<elkbuntu> when jono first joined the community, he spoke to me and mentioned this idea about mentoring
<elkbuntu> i thought about it for a week or so and said 'yeah, lets give it a go'
<Yann2> don't know for you, but I barely have the time to handle -fr, so for other locoteams... :p
<elkbuntu> i nominated helping the new zealand loco team, since they're close and through one of their members that lurks in our channel, i had found out they were not going so well
<elkbuntu> Yann2, this is my second meeting today, 2 of 4 over 2 days. im going insane ;)
<jono> :P
<Yann2> I don't think that this kind of mentoring would be really helpful
<elkbuntu> Yann2, i also have the benefit of a self-maintaining loco that just needs the occasional prod
<elkbuntu> Yann2, what we're doing is a feasability case study
<Yann2> ok :p
<elkbuntu> to see how it goes, whether it works and so forth
<elkbuntu> 4 hours ago, was the -au fortnightly meeting, and in that meeting i invited the nz members i could find and jono to join in
<Gnomonic> It doesn't have to be the Team leader or even the LoCo-contact to help. Yann2, couldn't you find a normal team-member to be a sort of Team-mentor-liason?
<jono> lets discuss it in a sec folks, and let elkbuntu finish :)
<elkbuntu> it was fairly lively, got the nz guys thinking and we have a meeting organised for tomorrow to fling ideas around
<david`bgk> jono, I've added a fourth item on the agenda, ok with that?
<jono> david`bgk, sure
<elkbuntu> so really, things are just starting in this study, and we hope to be able to figure out ways that work and so forth
<jono> yes, this is jus a test at first
<elkbuntu> did you want to add anything, jono?
<Gekitsuu> is it going to be just the one trial or will there be a few?
<jono> Gekitsuu, just one at first
<elkbuntu> one at a time
<elkbuntu> baby steps ;)
<jono> let me make clear what I mean by mentoring:
<jono> mentoring is not the same process in all scenarios, but it is helping a LoCo group to develop their own culture and way of working
<phanatic> hey loco people, sorry for being late...
<Ju> (Hi all) for a start, helping other loco, each already running team could describe their platform (tool for wiki, planet, forum and how to combine them) and/or provide the css theme to adapt for each loco, for example some other locoteams were interested by the ubuntu-fr theme 
<jono> this does not mean "doing stuff" for that group, but will largely involve IRC meetings, and exchanging emails
<elkbuntu> guys, hush, jono is speaking
<jono> the idea is in keeping the communication channels open between teams and helping those new at setting up teams to get on their feet
<jsgotangco> that's supposed to be the purpose of the locoteams channel right?
<jono> part of the reason why we are trialling it is so we can identify good mentors - mentors *need* to be good and open at running teams, with random mentoring that is more difficult
<elkbuntu> jsgotangco, yep, which is fine if the teams have managed to get some form of order and nominate an actual contact etc
<jono> so much of this is about documentation best practice when it comes to mentoring
<Yann2> btw, the -locoteams channel has nothing official :)
<jono> the grand plan is to develop a community of real community building experts
<jono> instead of just building ad-hoc teams, much of this is about developing an education in community building
<jono> this will make the community more inclusive, closer and more efficient
<jono> ok, thats me done
<jono> so any questions
<jono> or thoughts :)
<Yann2> I love the "sharing locoteams experience" part :)
<MehdiHassanpour> I think before mentoring, teams can describe what they do and have done to shape a team
<MehdiHassanpour> agree
<jono> yes
<Yann2> some way to resume what locoteams achieved, and how they did... why not even "recipes"
<jono> good point MehdiHassanpour 
<jono> much of this is about documentation on the wiki :)
<jono> lt me answer this:
<jono> <Ju> (Hi all) for a start, helping other loco, each already running team could describe their platform (tool for wiki, planet, forum and how to combine them) and/or provide the css theme to adapt for each loco, for example some other locoteams were interested by the ubuntu-fr theme 
<Gnomonic> In my mind, there are several phases of starting a team.
<jono> Ju, that is the kind of thing that is important too
<newz2000> jono: I can chime in on your comment when you're ready for feedback
<jono> I am also interested in exploring how to centralise resources
<philwyett> Are you looking at a set of common team goals for locoteams as a whole for a common base to build upon?
<jono> ok one sec guys
<jono> newz2000, shoot
<Gnomonic> I believe that the initial start-up have to come from the team itself, where mentoring is a good solution for getting over the bar for being a full team.
<jono> then we can do philwyett 
<newz2000> Some of you have met me, I'm the Ubuntu webmaster, and have been helping the newer teams get websites.
<jono> Gnomonic, definitly
<newz2000> If you don't have a website yet for your loco, please talk to me and I can help you get free hosting
<jono> newz2000, just as a side note, I am developing some ideas about centralising LoCo resources so it is easier for teams to get going - I will arrange a meeting with you and the Launchpad dudes :)
<freeflying> newz2000: where is the server hosted?
<newz2000> We have several servers, most in the US, some in EU.
<freeflying> jono: centralise locoteam resource? it will be a nightmare for many guys from china
<elkbuntu> when newz2000 is finished, i'd like to add something to the comment MehdiHassanpour made
<jono> freeflying, good point
<newz2000> jono: OK, then I'll guess I'll leave at that for now.
<jono> newz2000, cool, thanks!
<newz2000> elkbuntu: go ahead
<jono> elkbuntu, shoot
<elkbuntu> just going back to MehdiHassanpour's comment about before mentoring... the truely successful teams stand out themselves anyway, such as the indonesia team which has managed to get some media lately. jono initially approached me after my appearance in mainstream media here
<MehdiHassanpour> that DVD is really usefull for our team too
<elkbuntu> i think it's important to keep an eye out for the work of teams that may not necissarily be vocal in the central locoteam channel or who may not know what's goign on outside their area
<jono> I think it is important that teams start out themselves and then get mentoring where they need it
<jono> mentoring may be a patchy experience, only applied where needed
<Gnomonic> :-)
<elkbuntu> thats not to say we dont plant the seed and let them decide to come ask for help
<jono> yes
<jono> ok
<jono> <philwyett> Are you looking at a set of common team goals for locoteams as a whole for a common base to build upon?
* nixternal is fashionably late like always ;)
<jono> philwyett, this is part of the plan
<Gnomonic> The sharing of team experiences and projects, I think, is a very good way to plant seeds. Wasn't there a 'ideas for a locoteam'-page at some point?
<jono> I am interested in developing some guidence for running a team
<jono> Gnomonic, yep
<jono> I think we need the following core docs on the wiki:
<jono>  * how to run a loco team - a guide about how to run a loco effectively, encourage new members etc
<jono>  * things you can do as a loco team - details and ideas of activities a loco can do
<jono> I am also developing a document that outlines what a loco team needs to do to get accepted as an official team
<MehdiHassanpour> this will be great help, jono
<jono> any other questions?
<Yann2> (may we have a dedicated website, or will we have to work on the official english wiki?)
<MehdiHassanpour> and ask teams to announce what they do 
<MehdiHassanpour> or have started
<jono> Yann2, dedicated site for loco teams?
<philwyett> For sharing whats happening in different teams - A live bookmarks feed like the fridge to allow people to see whats happening and maybe move out of their loco-team more?
<Gnomonic> I agree with MehdiHassanpour. It helps on the efficiency of a project, when you are in some way 'accountable' for your projects.
<jono> Yann2, I would like to see us get out wiki pages up to scratch and then a move to a dedicated site may be an option
<Yann2> with wiki, blog, documents for getting approved as official locoteam, hosting, [...] 
<jono> philwyett, I have been talking to the fridge people about getting far more loco news on there
<philwyett> jono: Ah, OK
<jono> I think we need loco teams to be able to see what other teams are doing and it will inspsire them to do their own things
<philwyett> True
<jono> I posted to loco-contacts for case studies and stories, do send them over :)
<MehdiHassanpour> many of these projects can be localized and customized by other teams for their local use too
* freeflying hope we can access to launchpad more easy from china :p
<jono> any final questions?
* Yann2 don't like launchpad :D :p
<jono> ok
<jono> lets cover this item:
<jono> Improving communication between LoCo teams and Canonical/Ubuntu orientations
<jono> David - want to outline what you mean?
<Yann2> david`bgk, ping
<jono> thanks Yann2 :)
<david`bgk> yes, we don't know what ubuntu/canonical want about locos
<jono> right
<elkbuntu> afaik thats why we now have jono ;)
<MehdiHassanpour> ;)
<jono> david`bgk, this is what I am interested in helping with
<jono> I want to realise the full potential of the LoCo community
<Gnomonic> Every home needs a Jono.
<jono> heh
<elkbuntu> lol
<jono> david`bgk, in answer to your question:
<david`bgk> elkbuntu, yes but what about locos and canonical projects? we can do it together (for example spreading ubuntu at the office, etc)
<Yann2> david`bgk 's afraid about competition between canonical and community, i think :)
<elkbuntu> i think the fact that canonical has hired jono should make it clear that they take the community seriously. jono -is- part of canonical
<jono> Canonical have ideas about how LoCo teams can help, and I have stacks of ideas, but part of what I want to do is to help the LoCo community develop cool ideas, schemes and more
<david`bgk> Yann2, not at all but what can we do together to promote ubuntu
<jono> canonical take community *extremely* seriously
<elkbuntu> rightly so since it is the one thing that makes ubuntu awesome
<jono> david`bgk, so you mean methods in which we can advocate ubuntu?
<david`bgk> jono, yes for example when did they want to promote officially ubuntu in france?
<jono> david`bgk, what do you mean 'officially' ?
<elkbuntu> david`bgk, you're free to drop into the marketing team channel at any time, btw
<david`bgk> yes in terms of marketing
<jono> david`bgk, you mean canonical marketing or the ubuntu community marketing?
<Yann2> mmmh. in other words, we heard canonical wants to hire someone in france, essentially to do some advocacy
<david`bgk> jono, is there a difference between those? (and what about foundation?)
<jono> david`bgk, I don't think an effective LoCo structure is for Canonical to say "we want you to do this" and LoCo teams just do it
<Yann2> we were surprised they didn'nt ping us, and wondered where our work start, and where it stops :)
<jono> Canonical want LoCo teams to be their own entity in many ways
<david`bgk> jono, not "want" but maybe "suggest" ;)
<elkbuntu> i think there's a distinct line between the responsibilities of canonical and the responsibilities of the community
<jono> david`bgk, sure, and we can certainly suggest ideas :)
<jono> as for canonical and ubuntu marketing - remember, ubuntu is its own project, but canonical sponsor it
<jono> canonical does not rule ubuntu and controll it
<Yann2> don't want to troll but... that's not that clear, sorry :/
<jono> Yann2, what isnt?
<Yann2> well that's another debate
<Yann2> that canonical/ubuntu foundation thing
<jono> right
<elkbuntu> im going to suggest that since this isnt a loco based thing as such it be brought up with the CC
<jono> yes
<Yann2> let's stick to the topic 
<Gnomonic> Maybe it would be great with an informational-meeting about that topic?
<jono> Gnomonic, I agree
<elkbuntu> feel free to suggest it to the CC
<Yann2> already have my answer,  from mark himself, just not that satisfied with it :p
<jono> I think we need to remember that LoCo teams are not there to just do work for Canonical, but they are there to help and promote Ubuntu
<elkbuntu> there is a CC meeting tomorrow
<Gnomonic> It you just pop into that an make a suggestion?
<jono> david`bgk, if you are interested in Canonical establishing how LoCo teams fit in with the Canonical marketinbg strategy, I think we should think about it
<jono> Gnomonic, add it to the agenda
<david`bgk> jono, ok now or on the mailing-list?
<Gnomonic> Just before we get back on topic. Could anyone check up on it, because I probably won't be able to attend.
<MehdiHassanpour> I think loco teams can have some kind of professional support and charge customers too, to cover their costs
<jono> david`bgk, I don;t think we have time now, plus I would like to get our Marketing manager along to a meeting about that
<jono> david`bgk, maybe at the next LoCo meeting
<jono> this brings me onto the subject of LoCo meetings
<jono> I would like us to have regular meetings where possib
<jono> possible
<david`bgk> jono, ok good idea
<elkbuntu> yep
<jono> but we need to hit the different time zones fairly
<jono> so everyone can participate
<Gnomonic> I was thinking about suggesting that.
<elkbuntu> jono, you know about the timeanddate.com meeting planner?
<jono> nope
<jono> let me see
<elkbuntu> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
<jsgotangco> we alway use that to sched events on diff tzs
<jsgotangco> or juse something like tzwatch
<jono> elkbuntu, wow thats cool
<elkbuntu> timeanddate.com == teh awesome
<Yann2> (is the meeting over?)
<elkbuntu> not sure
<elkbuntu> i think jono's playing with the site
<jono> sorry, phone call
<jsgotangco> lol
<elkbuntu> or that
<jono> ok, any final questions or comments?
<Yann2> (I noted a lots of good intentions, but nothing really concrete)
<jono> the aim of these meeting is not to create actions, but to just discuss some ideas
<grimace> damn I've missed it ;)
<jono> one concrete decision should be to have regular meetings
<elkbuntu> grimace, yeah sorry. the logs will be up soon or so
<Gnomonic> I have an idea: What about a LoCo idea pool?
<jono> I am thinking every two weeks on a Monday
<Gargoyle> I am very new to ubuntu, and the UK team. But I like what <MehdiHassanpour> said.
<jono> Gnomonic, good idea, a wiki page where people can add ideas
<philwyett> Slight OT question. The wiki is getting slower of late. Is this issue being addressed?
<jono> Gargoyle, which point
<grimace> elkbuntu: no worries and thanks
<Gnomonic> excactly
* Yann2 for 1/month
<elkbuntu> philwyett, i believe it is being looked in to
<jono> philwyett, it has been, I have been onto the sysadmins about it, I will poke them again
<Yann2> 1 every two weeks is a lot :(
<Gargoyle> <MehdiHassanpour> I think loco teams can have some kind of professional support and charge customers too, to cover their costs
<philwyett> elkbuntu and jono: Good - thanks.
<Hobbsee> jono: ping (at the end of your meeting)
<elkbuntu> Yann2 the meetings dont have to be long or in depth, they can be simply a catchup and a chance to ask jono a question in a group environment
<jono> I think we need to do meetings fortnightly - so one meeting a month is one timezone, and the other is another
<jono> Hobbsee, ok :)
<jono> elkbuntu, exactly
<Yann2> elkbuntu, it's just my own opinion ;)
<freeflying> jono: I still need your help :) 
<elkbuntu> Yann2, also note what jono said. they'll end up monthly for most people anyway
<jono> lets try every two weeks and see how we get on, nothing is cast in stone :)
<Gnomonic> What time-zone was this meeting?
<jono> gnomefreak, UTC
<jono> europe mainly
<MehdiHassanpour> I agree with every 2 weeks
<jono> although east coast US could fit in and elkbuntu is in .au
<elkbuntu> its now 1am here
<Gnomonic> I would like to propose that the next 'europe'-meeting be set at least an hour later.
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: will be used to having dodgy timezones.  it's a curse of living her.e
<jono> heh
<jono> right, lets finish up them
<elkbuntu> fitting times to people is part of getting into the meeting mode
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, aye
<jono> I will schedule another meeting, but the next one I won't be there as I am on holiday
<Yann2> jono, may I have two words with you after the meeting? :)
<jono> Yann2, sure :)
<jono> ok, thanks people :)
<elkbuntu> jono, how long are you on holiday?
<jono> elkbuntu, two weeks
<jono> I return Oct 6th
<Gnomonic> So the next meeting will be on monday the 2. of october at some-or-the-other time.
<Gnomonic> Then no.
<elkbuntu> jono, make it after you return, and start the schedule from then
<jono> Gnomonic, yep
<jono> ok
<jono> can do
<Gnomonic> I agree with the elk.
<jono> maybe start on Oct 10th
<MehdiHassanpour> I agree
<jono> cool :)
<jono> obviously you can't get enough jono, which is understandable :P
<Gnomonic> It's a deal then.
<jono> cool
<MehdiHassanpour> set it whenever you are and have time
<elkbuntu> you're effectively the point of these meetings jono, so your attendance is priority
<jono> ok cool :)
<MehdiHassanpour> ;)
<Gnomonic> :-)
<jono> thanks for attending people, and keep using loco-contacts :)
* dsas marvels at the size of jonos head :p
<elkbuntu> meeting closed then?
<jono> dsas, haha
* elkbuntu hands dsas a nice sharp needle.
<Gnomonic> i guess so.
<elkbuntu> goodnight all :)
<Gnomonic> bye
<MehdiHassanpour> nice to meet you all
* elkbuntu figures she'll just hover in here for the next 20 hours
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<poningru> frack
<poningru> I missed the meeting 
<poningru> again
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-19
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 19 Sep 08:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<chuckyp> ?
<eyequeue> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 19 2006, 00:53:10 - Next meeting: Community Council in 11 hours 6 minutes
<DBO> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 19 Sep 12:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* Scr3W_W0rM slaps Scr3W_W0rM around a bit with a large trout
* y3dips is away (back to the real world)
<bimberi> @schedule canberra
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Canberra: 19 Sep 22:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 22 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Sep 06:00: Technical Board | 28 Sep 06:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Seveas> @now Brussels
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Brussels: September 19 2006, 11:28:22 - Next meeting: Community Council in 2 hours 31 minutes
<DBO> @now Detroit
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Detroit: September 19 2006, 05:57:55 - Next meeting: Community Council in 2 hours 2 minutes
<simira> @schedule Oslo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 19 Sep 14:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 19 Sep 14:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<brendonjt> hi all
<Fujitsu> Hi.
<brendonjt> Fujitsu, :good to see you here
<DBO> @now detroit
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Detroit: September 19 2006, 07:21:04 - Next meeting: Community Council in 38 minutes
<elkbuntu> we're eager, arent we ;)
<brendonjt> elkbuntu, :yip we sure are
<gnomefreak> elkbuntu: good luck :)
<elkbuntu> ;)
<brendonjt> gnomefreak, :hi ya
<gnomefreak> brendonjt: hi
<brendonjt> gnomefreak, :me just praying me get my membership ae
<gnomefreak> you going up for it too?
<Belutz> anyone know who will lead the next cc meeting?
* gnomefreak should really learn to read email 
<DBO> elkbuntu, you have my support too =)
<brendonjt> gnomefreak, :yip
<gnomefreak> Belutz: same people that lead the meetings any other time
<gnomefreak> brendonjt: good luck
<brendonjt> gnomefreak, :thank you
<gnomefreak> elkbuntu: mine as weel
<gnomefreak> well
<elkbuntu> DBO, gnomefreak :D
<gnomefreak> Belutz: the CC is made up of 4 people (they lead the meeting)
<Belutz> gnomefreak: ok :)
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu, you of course have mine :P
<elkbuntu> gnomefreak, are all 4 going to be here do you know?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: generous of you
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu, sabdfl often isn't, all the others are very reliable.
<gnomefreak> elkbuntu: 3 will be for sure and those are the 3 you need
<brendonjt> ajmitch, :i say lol
<gnomefreak> sabdfl may be here at this one (we cant finish one of the topics without him)
<Fujitsu> Aha, yay :)
<elkbuntu> will a certain item be left off the agenda out of respect?
<ajmitch> he was on irc a few hours ago, so it's likely he can make it
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, hopefully.
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu, that's a good question.
<gnomefreak> elkbuntu: what item
<brendonjt> Fujitsu, : what you mean yay?
<elkbuntu> gnomefreak, i dont really want to have to say it
<gnomefreak> oh that one
<gnomefreak> sorry its early
<Fujitsu> brendonjt, sabdfl will probably be here.
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu, yeah :(
<gnomefreak> thats the one we cant end without sabdfl
<elkbuntu> gnomefreak, :-/
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak, I thought as much.
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak, that's been going on for months, hasn't it?
<Belutz> Seveas, ping
<brendonjt> Fujitsu, : oh ok
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: yes waiting for sabdfl 
<dudanogueira> good morning for how is in a morning :)
<dudanogueira> for who
<Belutz> gnomefreak: sabdfl will be here??
<thoreauputic> evening/morning all
<Fujitsu> I've read most of the saga so far.
<Fujitsu> Hey thoreauputic.
<gnomefreak> Belutz: dont know i havent seen him in weeks
<thoreauputic> Fujitsu: :) 
<Fujitsu> :|
* elkbuntu grins as watches all the aussies pile into the channel ;)
<gnomefreak> @now new_york
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/New_York: September 19 2006, 07:32:05 - Next meeting: Community Council in 27 minutes
<gnomefreak> brb i have time for a  smoke
<brendonjt> any kiwis  here  me feels alone
<Belutz> gnomefreak: is it possible that my agenda to be move to the first agenda, because i don't have much time, actually i'm still in a meeting in my office now
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: you canthankmy dentist ;-) I am feeling no pain... *g*
<elkbuntu> that's great :)
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: insert spaces as required in that ;)
<bimberi> thoreauputic: good to read :)
<Seveas> Belutz: ?
<elkbuntu> don'tworrythoreauputicicanreadsentancesthathavenospaces,howaboutyou?
<thoreauputic> bimberi: wonders of modern dentistry and pharmacy :)
<bimberi> :)
<brendonjt> lol
* johnlittle checks out elkbuntu's posse
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: maisoui ;)
<Seveas> "elkbuntu's posse"
<Belutz> Seveas, do you know who should I contact to get the statistic of how much CD that is sent from shipit to indonesia?
<Scr3W_W0rM> :D
<elkbuntu> not enough? you think i should arrange some more?
<Seveas> Belutz: shipit # ubuntu.com
<Seveas> (replace # with @)
<Belutz> Seveas: thanks :)
* Seveas sets ban on *!*@*.au
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: well, extrauser is AWOL tonight ;-)
<amachu> hi, this is Sriramadas alias amachu contact person for Tamil team..
* Fujitsu applauds elkbuntu's impressive array of supporters.
<elkbuntu> hahaha!
<harry_sufehmi> Belutz: excellent idea :)
<Seveas> hi amachu!
<Seveas> glad you could make it
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<Fujitsu> Hi jsgotangco.
<amachu> yes, I am also glad
<brendonjt> jsgotangco, :hi ya 
<DBO> we love elkbuntu =)
<Belutz> harry_sufehmi: :)
* elkbuntu hands out placards.
<Seveas> People, let's move to -offtopic for th chatter
<Seveas> so we don't clog up logs
<amachu> so the meeting atarts at 12.00 UTC right?
<jsgotangco> yeah lots of minutes to go
* jsgotangco idles
<johnlittle> Can I borrow them when you're done Elk?
<Belutz> jsgotangco: hai!!! long time no see :)
<gnomefreak> amachu: correct
<amachu> 20 min to go..
<amachu> what shall we do..
<brendonjt> chat
<ajmitch> in -offtopic
<bapoumba> salut
<brendonjt> bapoumba: kia ora
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<brendonjt> yay not long now
<harry_sufehmi> @now new_york
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/New_York: September 19 2006, 07:53:45 - Current meeting: Community Council
<brendonjt> @now auckland
<Ubugtu> Current time in Pacific/Auckland: September 19 2006, 23:54:04 - Current meeting: Community Council
<hunmaat2> re kelemengabor 
<kelemengabor> hi hunmaat2
<brendonjt> hunmaat2, : kia ora
<amachu> hi.. all...
<brendonjt> amachu, : hi
<amachu> this is Sri ramadas, contact person for TamilTeam
<Seveas> amachu, we know already ;)
<amachu> ok..
<Seveas> let me poke the CC
<Seveas> mako_, ping
<amachu> how should i start presenting?
<Riddell> amachu: wait for the meeting to start
<Seveas> amachu, when you're up you can briefly introduce the team (prepare a few lines in a text editor so you can paste them), then the CC will ask questions
<amachu> ok...
<Hobbsee> Seveas: s/ask questions/start grilling/g
<Belutz> Seveas, could you ask the CC that indonesian loco team agenda to be moved first? because i'm in the middle of something
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, that's the TB, not CC :P
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they both do.  just about different things
<Belutz> Seveas, if it is possible
<Seveas> Belutz, so am I (I'm actually at EUROOscon and the keynote is about to start)
<ajmitch> Seveas: who's giving the keynote today?
<jsgotangco> EuroOSCON ROCK
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, the CC barely grills.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hmmm....true
<Belutz> Seveas, so we are busy right now :)
<Seveas> ajmitch, morning kynote was tim oreiully and tor norretranders, afternoon is steve coast and adrian holovaty
<leleobhz> dudanogueira: ?
<Seveas> Hmm, the CC seems to be rather absent
<elmo> sorry I'm late
<Seveas> elmo, you're the first of the CC to arrive
<elmo> err, oh
* gnomefreak still working on what im gonna say :) they can take thier time
<dudanogueira> Seveas, im here :)
<Belutz> welcome elmo
<Seveas> elmo, if sabdfl is at EUROOscon already, he's within a few meters from me ;)
<brendonjt> elmo, :kia ora (hi)
<elmo> Seveas: he's not
<jsgotangco> heh
<elmo> but he's out of the office, atm, probably won't make it
<elmo> i'll start ringing folks I guess
<Seveas> thank you
<Seveas> elmo, many of the "old agenda item" people showed up today
<elmo> kamion is on his way, ETA 10 mins - sorry about this, folks
<Seveas> YAY
<lophyte> 10mins? sweet, I have time to eat breakfast
<Seveas> statment in the current keynote: "Open systems are a done deal, eg Ubuntu"
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
* brendonjt makes coffee to stay awake it after midnight
<elmo> and mako's on his way now
<Seveas> elmo, you rock
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<amachu> Seveas: have we started?
<Seveas> amachu, no, we are waiting for two more members of the council
<amachu> Seveas: ok, Thank You
<mako_> greetings
<Seveas> hi mako_ 
<Fujitsu> Hey mako.
<jsgotangco> hey
<ajmitch> hello mako 
<brendonjt> mako:  kia ora hi there
<mako> mak: this is going to make nick completion a bit difficult
<Fujitsu> mako, yeah
<Belutz> jsgotangco: hi, remember me? :D
<jsgotangco> Belutz: of course, my indonesian friend ;)
<jsgotangco> Belutz: let's chat in private ;)
<Belutz> jsgotangco: ok :)
<dudanogueira> hello all :)
<makl10n> have you satarted the CC meeting?
<Fujitsu> makl10n, not quite yet.
<Seveas> makl10n, we're still waiting for one member of the council
<Seveas> who is supposed to arrive soon
<makl10n> We'll I've a class to take , it will be finish within 30 minutes. So, I want to come back again.
<Seveas> makl10n, ok, the meeting lasts for about two hours so 30 minutes is ok
<makl10n> Seveas: if the CC looks for me (mak), tell 'em I'll be back, the fact I've applied
<makl10n> Seveas: I'll be back
<brendonjt> padmawan, : hey there
<padmawan> hi
<Kamion> right, sorry about that, I was moving house bits in my lunch break and forgot about the meeting
<Seveas> Kamion, welcome
<Seveas> mako, elmo: ping, we're complete
<brendonjt> kamion: hi there
<Belutz> let the meeting begin :)
<mako> alright
<elmo> here
<Kamion> oh, I thought you'd have started
<Kamion> oh well
<Seveas> The agenda will start with locoteams today, IRC item is waiting for sabdfl and one of the apllicants for translation coordinator just left for 30 minutes
<Kamion> what about the ubuntu-desktop-effects item? that's further up the agenda than locoteams
<mako> sounds goof
<mako> good even
<Seveas> Kamion, ah sorry, missed it
<gnomefreak> we can do that whenever
<DBO> gnomefreak, earlier would be better
* Quinn_Storm can handle whenever
<Kamion> I'm assuming that the ubuntu-desktop team don't want this on ubuntu-desktop?
<Kamion> dholbach: ?
* Seveas will have to leave too, i want to give a \o/ for elkbuntu (Melissa Draper) before I do so
<Kamion> noted
<Kamion> (though detail would be good :-))
* pygi cheers for elkbuntu  ^_^
<gnomefreak> Kamion: made the team to take the load off of the -desktop team 
<elkbuntu> :)
<dholbach> Kamion: on the mailing list? in the channel? I don't quite follow?
<Kamion> dholbach: on the mailing list - I'm assuming it would be too much clutter to have aiglx/compiz/etc. discussion there?
<Kamion> but would like confirmation
<dholbach> we could try and see where it goes
<DBO> Kamion, on top of that most of the discussion would not be relevant to whats actually in the official ubuntu repos
<amachu> so, have we started?
<gnomefreak> we grew from 10 members to 82 members in a weeks time if that continues like that i think it would be alot of foreseen clutter on the -desktop list
<jsgotangco> whoa
* Hobbsee cheers for elkbuntu too, then goes afk
<mako> yeah, wow :)
<Kamion> gnomefreak: that sounds reasonable
<pygi> elkbuntu: when is it your turn?
<Kamion> it sounds far enough off-charter for the existing lists that a new list is reasonable
<Kamion> elmo: is the current process to RT mailing list creation requests?
<elmo> Kamion: mail mailman@lists.ubuntu.com, yeah (which goes to RT)
<amachu> This is sriramadas, contact person for TamilTeam from Chennai, India. We formed the team with two members on 06-Aug-06 with two members. We are now 12 in number. We have started translating Ubuntu to Tamil.
<Kamion> amachu: please wait until you're called
<amachu> ok
<Kamion> we'll get to you :)
<amachu> Sorry for that.. :-)
<Kamion> gnomefreak: OK, could you send your new list request to the address elmo gave, then?
<gnomefreak> Kamion: yes sir ty
<Kamion> it seems relatively uncontroversial
<Kamion> righto, next - locoteams
<Kamion> Sri Lanka?
<Kamion> or has that been incorporated into Tamil?
<amachu> Kamion: No..
<Kamion> ok, Sri Lanka not here
<Kamion> Northeastern US?
<Kamion> nope
<Kamion> Tamil
<Kamion> amachu: ok, you're up now :)
<amachu> Hi
<amachu> We formed the Tamil team with two members on 06-Aug-06. We are now 12 in number. We have started translating Ubuntu to Tamil. 
<amachu> Our language is spoken by 65 million people around the world. Tamil Nadu in India, Srilanka, Singapore are the countries with Tamil as official languages. 
<amachu> Today myself and Mukunth, ome of our team member has represented here
<Kamion> Any interesting stories to tell about the take-up of Ubuntu in Tamil-speaking regions?
<amachu> yes..
<amachu> We have started taking Ubuntu to kids in T Nagar...
<amachu> a locality in Channai, India
<amachu> We educate kids on Computing using ubuntu
<Mugunth> Hi All, this is Mugunth from tamil team 
<amachu> We plan to take Ubuntu to Schools
<amachu> and our Team is represented across two nations, India and Sri Lanka
<amachu> We had a Demo of Ubuntu installation
<amachu> in chennai, and people were amazed to see their language in computer..
<Kamion> Oh, so proprietary OSes like Windows aren't translated into Tamil?
<amachu> this happened at L&T infotech, a software company in Tamil..
<mako> i thought they were
<amachu> Yes, Windows have recently launced Tamil version
<amachu> but its unpopular
<amachu> hardly two months since they released that version
<Kamion> aha
<Kamion> so not quite get there first, but get there better ... :-)
<amachu> yes for sure...
<amachu> But we can make it up...
<amachu> since the majority of masses here cannot afford to buy windows
<amachu> thats where we have an edge...
* gnomefreak cheers for elkbuntu (have to run out for a bit)
<amachu> we do have our own mailing list for conversation
<Kamion> ok, we seem to have run out of questions :)
<amachu> Kamion: means?
<Kamion> very happy to see your enthusiasm, and glad to hear that there's another region where we stand a chance of becoming dominant in IT before Microsoft does
<mako> alright then
<amachu> :-), now we need official recognition... as translators of Ubuntu in Tamil
<Kamion> unless anyone has any objections, I think that's the Tamil team approved
<amachu> we need an URL, and forum
<mako> .ne 
* mako nods to Kamion 
<Kamion> URL as in a domain?
<mako> alright, next team
<Kamion> hang on
<mako> Kamion: i saw it
<dudanogueira> amachu, good job! i wish you luck on our daily battle :)
<amachu> Thank You...
<Kamion> elmo: do we (Canonical) deal with locoteam domains now, or is smurfix still doing it?
<amachu> Cheers...
<mako> i thought the plan was to shift that to jono
<Belutz> amachu: Cheers :)
<Kamion> works for me but I don't know how far along he is
* mako nods
<Kamion> actually, we should grab jono in here
<mako> i don't either
<elkbuntu> hes on his way
<amachu> we need to host our team details... on web
<jono> just one sec guys
<phanatic> amachu: you should subscribe to loco-contects@l.u.c if you haven't done it yet :)
<Kamion> 13:50 < Kamion> elmo: do we (Canonical) deal with locoteam domains now, or is smurfix still doing it?
<Kamion> 13:50 < mako> i thought the plan was to shift that to jono
<Kamion> 13:50 < Kamion> works for me but I don't know how far along he is
<phanatic> loco-contacts* sorry
<Kamion> for the Tamil team
<jono> ok back
<nixternal> Canonical does hosting as well http://chi.ubuntu-us.org is Canonical hosting
<elmo> sorry
<jono> afaik I am not dealing with LoCo resources
<elmo> was talking to sabdfl
<jono> I am just helping get the teams working
<elmo> kamion: smurfix is still doing it
<elmo> at least on a technical side
<sabdfl> hi all
<Fujitsu> Hi sabdfl :)
<jono> hey sabdfl 
<nixternal> hiya sabdfl
<phanatic> hi sabdfl 
<amachu> so should we contact smurfix?
<Seveas> (smurfix is implementing a DIY thing for that)
<Belutz> hi sabdfl
<jono> I think smufix is on vacation right now
<Seveas> he is
<Hobbsee> hi sabdfl 
<Scr3W_W0rM> hello sabdl
<nixternal> i went through RTS for Ubuntu Chicago
<amachu> Kamion: Who has to move our Team to the main table in the LocoTeam, page
<jono> I have kicked some initial discussion off about centralising LoCo resources where possible
<jono> amachu, I am working on getting teams accepted
<Kamion> amachu: you should be able to do that yourself
<amachu> ok...
<Kamion> assuming this is a wiki page
<amachu> Thank You..
<nixternal> jono: speaking of LoCo, I was told I should chat with you as well for 'mentoring', when you get time of course
<jono> nixternal, cool, who told you ?
<nixternal> i wish i could remember ;)
<sabdfl> nicely ducked :-)
<nixternal> haha
<amachu> jono: can u guide us?
<jono> heh
<jono> amachu, sure
<jsgotangco> welocme back
<jono> I am building a check list of things that LoCo teams should set up and then I am going to get all pending teams to satisfy that checklist and move them to accepted
<amachu> jono: what should do from now on...
<jono> amachu, we can talk about this seperately so as not to impede the meeting :)
<amachu> jono: Yes sure
<Seveas> where are we in the meeting?
<amachu> shall i say good bye now...
<mako> jono: yes
<jono> amachu, I will /msg you soon
<mako> jono: that sounds pretty sane
<Belutz> Seveas: may i go first?
<mako> smurf was using something very similar, at least early on
<Seveas> (Belutz: I'm not in charge of the schedule)
<amachu> jono: how do contact u? my mail id shriramadhas@gmail.com
<jono> amachu, jono AT ubuntu DOT com :)
<jono> amachu, drop me an email with the details and I will get onto it :)
<mako> jono: our question here is: can infrastructure issues that locos have to be pushed off to you
<mako> jono: doesn't mean you have to solve them, but at least help point people to the right place
<mako> or places
<amachu> Thank You.. 
<jono> mako, sure, I can help point them in the right direction
<jono> mako, I am working on some better docs on the LoCo pages to help with this to, so we can point people at the docs
<jono> the LoCo pages are....erm...artistic...shall we say :P
<jono> they need poking with a stick :)
<jsgotangco> hah
<ajmitch> how diplomatic
<sabdfl> very glad to have jono working to document and clarify the loco process
* Fujitsu suggests Hobbsee.
<Belutz> Kamion: can Indonesian Loco Team go first after this? because i have other meeting to attend to
<Hobbsee> say what?
<jono> sabdfl, :)
<Fujitsu> sabdfl, certainly.
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, your poking stick, dear.
<Kamion> Belutz: sure
<Hobbsee> oh, the long and pointy stick.  yes.
<Belutz> Kamion: thanks
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, yes.
<jono> for LoCo people in here, keep an eye on loco-contacts - I will be posting a message soon about getting teams accepted
<Hobbsee> <offtopic>I want the email address longpointystick@ubuntu.com too </offtopic>
<mako> jono: sounds good, thanks
<imtheface> okok jono!
<Belutz> jono: will do
<jono> Hobbsee, damn you! :)
<Hobbsee> jono: :P  
<jono> incidentally, sorry I was late to the this meeting, a meeting overrun
<Belutz> may i begin now?
<Kamion> yes, I think we're done with the previous item
<Belutz> ok, thanks Kamion
<Belutz> Hi All, I'm Andi Darmawan, i'm the contact person for Indonesian LocoTeams
<Belutz> we are here to apply for recognised status for the Indonesian LoCo Team (http://ubuntu-id.org). We've been active in Ubuntu since the team was formed about a year ago.
<Belutz> Various efforts have been done. We have provided infrastructures for the local users to grow - website, mailing list, forum, documentation. We strive to create a comfortable place where anyone can get information on Ubuntu, have a honest discussions, get help, exchange experiences, solve problems, and so on.
<Belutz> We have also participated in a few conferences, then several people from Cidepok have also organized two Edubuntu conferences & instalfest. And currently we've managed the project to distribute Ubuntu repository in form of DVDs
<Belutz> due to expensive Internet access in our country, this will help the users in Indonesia, so they can install many applications in Ubuntu without have to connect into Internet (except for the updates of course). We have many plans for the future, including writing a book on Ubuntu targeted for everyone in Indonesia.
<makl10n> the CC meeting started?
<Belutz> there are some members who focused on edubuntu also, you can check it at this site http://toosa.oo-linux.com/weblog/index.php?op=Default&postCategoryId=17&blogId=3 (in Indonesian)
<sabdfl> Belutz: thank you for this contribution so far! what can we do to help you accelerate?
<Belutz> Indonesian Loco teams have been appeared on Cnet Asia recently, you can check it at this site http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/blog/toekangit/0,39056105,61953558,00.htm
<sabdfl> i have to step afk for a while, will read scrollback
* imtheface cheerleader for Indonesian Team
<Belutz> sabdfl: we need to be the official ubuntu team for indonesia, so we could speak on behalf of ubuntu
<Kamion> makl10n: some time ago, yes
<sabdfl> Belutz: is there any other team right now?
<jsgotangco> Belutz: you sure its not just in jakarta? ;)
<Seveas> (makl10n: I asked for the translation item to be moved down in the agenda so you wouldn't be left out)
<Belutz> sabdfl: yes they are, imtheface, fajran, harry_sufehmi, Niwatori, and others
<makl10n> Seveas: Thanks
<jono> Belutz, you progress is impressive
<imtheface> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-id --> translation team
<hs_> Hi, I just would like to show the achievements with the Indonesian schools : 
<hs_> First Edubuntu installfest : http://toosa.oo-linux.com/weblog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=25&blogId=3
<Belutz> jsgotangco: most of the members are in jakarta, but we ship the DVD repos nation wide
<hs_> Second Edubuntu installfest : http://toosa.oo-linux.com/weblog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=30&blogId=3
<jsgotangco> impressive
<sabdfl> imtheface: how do you feel about Belutz's team taking on an official role? is there good coordination between the different teams?
<hs_> On the second installfest, participants from as far as 600 km away came to join in.
<Belutz> sabdfl: actually i'm proposing imtheface aka Andy Apdhani to be the Team Leader :)
<hs_> second that
<imtheface> :)
<sabdfl> ok, so you're saying there are informal teams, and you'd like to create an official team that draws from those guys
<sabdfl> sounds good to me. have you worked with jono yet?
<Belutz> sabdfl, yes, so there could be one official teams
<jono> Belutz, I recommend we have a chat about your work
<imtheface> yes, i've follow discussion on loco mailing list!
<sabdfl> if jono is happy with the state of the team, organisation, leadership, website, mailing lists, goals... then +1 from me
<Belutz> sabdfl: i don't think i have chat with jono, but my friend imtheface who recently make contact with other loco team
<sabdfl> i need to step afk for real now!
<sabdfl> will read scrollback
<jono> Belutz, I would like to have a discussion to discuss the specifics if possible, as I am not familiar with your team
<Belutz> jono: will do :)
<jono> Belutz, how do the informal teams work together?
<Belutz> jono: actually they moved alone at first, but we ask them about joining us, because some of the informal teams doesn't know about loco teams
<sabitha>  i iiiiiiiiiiiiiihiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
<jsgotangco> sabitha: bless you
<sabitha> :)
<jono> Belutz, when you say informal teams, are these Ubuntu teams or Linux User Groups?
<Belutz> jono: if we could be as one, we could make the activities nation wide
<imtheface> and currently I've made contact with them so we can work together with them side by side
<jono> Belutz, yes
<Belutz> jono: they are not LUG and not Ubuntu Teams, but they promote ubuntu and edubuntu
<jono> right
<sabitha> brb
<jono> Belutz, has anyone applied to be the official team before from these informal groups?
<jsgotangco> Belutz: id is a very large place, is that even feasible
<Belutz> jono: not yet as far as i know
<jsgotangco> ive experinced this as well
<jsgotangco> for groups wayyy down south
<Belutz> jsgotangco: it is feasible, as long as we communicate and work each other :)
<jono> Belutz, ok, well +1 from me, I am happy to make you an official team :)
<jsgotangco> i let them use loco resources, ie., website, etc.
<Belutz> jono: thanks :)
<jono> Belutz, I think you need to take special care to get all the informal teams communicating together well and preferably on the same mailing list and IRC channel
<Belutz> jsgotangco: thanks for all your support :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<imtheface> same here jsgotangco!
<Belutz> jono: yes, our mailing list becoming more active everyday
<jono> Belutz, awesome :)
<imtheface> jono, already in progress!
<jsgotangco> the thing is, you don't need to influence the actions of far flung teams, as long as the goals are much the same collectively
<jono> then sure, I am happy to make you an official team
<imtheface> they've join to our mailing list!
<jsgotangco> but sometimes these informal groups look into guidance
<jsgotangco> that's where you guys come in ;)
<Belutz> jsgotangco: that's why we persuade them to join us :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<imtheface> jono, many thanks then!
<imtheface> harry_sufehmi, welcome back!
<imtheface> also cheers jsgotangco 
<jono> imbrandon, :)
<jono> oop
<jono> oop
<jono> oops
* imbrandon looks up
<jono> argh
<imbrandon> heh
<jono> imtheface, :)
<Belutz> :)
<mako> alright
<jono> Belutz, I will move the team to the official table now
<Belutz> jono: so, what should we do next?
<harry_sufehmi> hi imtheface, hope I didn't miss anything important 
<imtheface> jono, sorry didn't make it to the loco-meeting yesteday!
<jono> imtheface, no worries
<jono> Belutz, I will move you to the official table and you are now considered official :)
<imtheface> harry_sufehmi, u miss the whole things
<Niwatori> harry: you missed the approval fanfare :P
<kenyanteam> hi, i'm here to represent kenya loco team
<Scr3W_W0rM> :)
<Belutz> thanks to jono and all CC members :)
<Belutz> we will do our best to promote ubuntu in indonesia
<harry_sufehmi> thanks all
<jono> Belutz, do keep me updated with how you get on :)
<Belutz> jono: i will, your email is jono @ u.c ?
<dudanogueira> Belutz, wish you luck
<jono> Belutz, yes
<Belutz> dudanogueira: thanks :)
<AmyJ> hi freeflying
<jsgotangco> yay
<freeflying> AmyJ: hey
<Belutz> jono: ok, i'll note that
<Belutz> Cheers for Indonesian LoCo Teams :)
<jsgotangco> \o/ ubuntu-id \o/
<Belutz> jsgotangco: thanks :)
<makl10n> Cheers for Indonesian LoCo Team from me too
<Scr3W_W0rM> Cheeers...
<Niwatori> thx jsgotangco
<Belutz> ok, i have to attend another meeting, thanks again all :)
<fajran> thanks all!
<jono> Belutz, also see #ubuntu-locoteams :)
<Belutz> jono: will do :)
<Belutz> bye all :)
<elmo> so, err, where are we up to?
<Hobbsee> how late will this meeting run?   will we have a 3 hour meeting or something?
<Hobbsee> elmo: heh.  poke someone to talk
<Kamion> well, I have to step out in an hour's time for twenty minutes or so, so I hope not
<Kamion> ok, Bangladesh was next in the normal ordr
<Kamion> order
* Hobbsee wonders who usually chairs this thing.
<Kamion> then Ukraine, Kenya, Hungary
<Kamion> any of those here?
<Kamion> Hobbsee: kind of magical floating chair
<elmo> sometimes it floats off without someone attached
<phanatic> Kamion: Hungary present
<Hobbsee> Kamion: right...it seems that whoever's sitting on it today needs a good poking, before everyone falls asleep :P
<Kamion> phanatic: ok, please carry on
<phanatic> Hi everyone, I'm Szilveszter Farkas, the contact person for the Hungarian LoCo Team. Please let me introduce our team in a few words. The whole story began with the Translation Team, which was formed at the end of August 2005 after translating the entire (unofficial) Breezy Guide. Since then we organized many Translation Weekends to accelerate the localization of Ubuntu.
<phanatic> The next step was the founding of the Hungarian Ubuntu Community homepage (ubuntu.hu) in the middle of December 2005. We set up a Wiki-based site, so anyone can contribute (there are dozens of howtos available). A forum is also available, we have more than 550 members as of today, and many of them are very active. We have a crew who are hanging around on IRC to help other people as well (#ubuntu-hu). There are two mailing lists current
<phanatic> ly: one for the translators and one for the community.
<phanatic> In February 2006, a member of our team introduced Ubuntu both on TV and radio (smaller, non-profit stations).
<phanatic> In the mean time we also helped out on other IT forums in Hungary to help the beginners getting started with Ubuntu.
<phanatic> We have also localized the Ubuntu and Kubuntu Desktop CDs, and found sponsors for mirroring them.
<phanatic> The latest news is that we are organizing an Ubuntu Conference in Budapest (with the kind support from Canonical). We invited many well-known developers to present their contributions, and there are also talks in Hungarian to beginners, professionals and business people. (Almost 200 people registered to attend.) More info on that: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/545 - We plan to give away 100s of {U,Ku,Edu}buntu CDs, and also ordered a p
<phanatic> lenty of laptop stickers. Oh, and everybody is invited to both the conference and the Edgy release party after that ;)
<jono> phanatic, this all sounds great
<phanatic> jono: thanks
<jono> phanatic, was it you who mailed me about speaking at the conference?
<phanatic> jono: i don't think so
<jono> ahh
<phanatic> jono: that must have been another conf
<jono> :)
<hunmaat2> And a more latest news is that we are upgrading our community site. We want to make (and have made for test) a hungarian ubuntu planet-like drupal site and a wiki module for it, migrating our old forum and ubuntu-guide-based documentation.
<jono> well your team certainly gets a +1 from me
<phanatic> jono: thanks a lot :)
<phanatic> i hope the others agree too
<Seveas> anything else needed from/for the hungarian team or can we move on?
<mako> alright then
<elmo> looks fine to me
<jono> do the CC members want to vote or are they happy?
<mako> yes, seems find
<jono> ok cool
<Seveas> I want to speak on behalf of RolandoBlanco
<mako> Seveas: ok
<Seveas> I've been e-mailing him and sadly tuesday is a very bad day for him
<Seveas> if we can have a meeting on wednesday, at a same time for him (south america) he can show up
<mako> Seveas: every day and time is bad for some people
<makl10n> suzan229: hello...
<Seveas> mako, agreed, but having one meeting on a wednesday won't hurt, would it?
<suzan229> makl10n: sorry for late
<suzan229> :-)
<makl10n> suzan229: it's okay. the Translation / Localization agenda not yet started
<mako> Seveas: except that we'll all forget it :)
<suzan229> mak110n: That's good. So I'm not late. :-)
<makl10n> suzan229: hang around. okay?
<jono> ok, I will make the Hungarian team official if there are no objections
<mako> well you are late, but this has been a long meeting
<Seveas> mako, give me a list of phone numbers and I'll be stalking
<suzan229> makl10n: ok
<mako> jono: go ahead
<jono> cool
<jono> phanatic, congrats! :)
<mako> Seveas: we can talk about it at the end of this meeting when we plan the next one
<mako> lets move on
<Seveas> mako, ok
<Seveas> kirjanov denis?
<phanatic> jono: thanks, we'll try hard to keep you happy :)
<jono> :)
<Seveas> (btw: I mailed ALL the people with old items on the agenda, those who don't show up today can imho be removed)
<Seveas> Neal Bussett, Flannel?
<thoreauputic> oh, i hope Flannel makes it - he has been quite helpful on #ubuntu
<Hobbsee> Seveas: IRC is set to away
<Seveas> y3dips, Ahmad Muammar?
<thoreauputic> maybe he went to sleep ;p
<Hobbsee> [23:40]  [Whois]  Flannel has been idle for 4 hours, 7 minutes, and 36 seconds.
<Hobbsee> thoreauputic: quite likely.
<Hobbsee> Seveas: [23:41]  [Whois]  _y3dips[0xff]  has been idle for 5 hours, 1 minute, and 30 seconds.
<Hobbsee> Seveas: who's next?
<Seveas> thoreauputic, he said he would make it -- he can always reapply later. Being removed from the agenda merely means that we have a smaller agenda ;)
<Seveas> Brendon Toogood brendon8
<brendonjt> kia ora
<johnlittle> good
<thoreauputic> Seveas: good point - lets move on
<thoreauputic> :)
<brendonjt> hello
<Seveas> Hi brendonjt 
<Seveas> Please introduce yourself to us and the CC
<brendonjt> my name is brendon toogood and from new zealand
<Kamion> Brendon had an e-mailed endorsement from a local computer technician he's worked with, saying that he's been a staunch supporter and advocate of Linux in the area
<brendonjt> i have been using ubuntu  since dapper but have been using linux for a number of years,since the release of dapper, and alot of my work
<Hobbsee> brendonjt: do you have a wiki page here?
<brendonjt> has been un-noticed except by the endorsement for the it tech who emailed the cc
<brendonjt> wiki/Brendon8
<mako> right
<brendonjt> my wiki page might not be as flash or set out as flash as others but i  use all my spear time promoting ubuntu and teaching people how to use it and have been in the #ubuntu channel
<whitesoft> Hello!
<mako> but work in advocating gnu/linux more generally alone does not cross the threshhold of participating in *ubuntu*
* Hobbsee kicks the wiki
* nixternal watches as the wiki kicks back
<Seveas> hi whitesoft, good you could make it!
<mako> whitesoft: yes, definitely
<whitesoft> Thanks!
<brendonjt> i have been promoting ubuntu not just linux and have made flyers and the likes around my small town to promot and get people in volved even took the live cd to a school to show off how powerful it is and got positive response
<Seveas> brendonjt, you'll have to excuse me for being blunt, but the CC is looking for a sustained and significant contribution and your wiki page does not show such a contribution
<brendonjt> Seveas, : yes true i have problems with wording myslef  it is a health problem  i am more hands on
<mako> brendonjt: right, but the only testimonial you have does not demonstate involvement in *this* community
<Seveas> brendonjt, how active are you in the NZ locoteam?
<brendonjt> i am involved as we are going to be relaunching it and am involved with the people there who are to to relaunch it 
<brendonjt> some of them are here
<mako> brendonjt: great
<Seveas> brendonjt, that's very good -- this means that in a few weeks or months you WILL have made a visible contribution to the Ubuntu community
<Seveas> the NZ team should be kicking the AU teams ass imho 
<mako> brendonjt: what wi would recommend is that you continue your involvement in the loco, and then come back with few testimionaisl from folks on the loco and that you have worked with in ubuntu as part of that
<elkbuntu> hey!
* thoreauputic eyes Seveas 
<thoreauputic> ;)
* siccness glares at Seveas :)
<Hobbsee> Seveas: they dont have big enough feet
* Fujitsu prods Seveas with a big poker.
<mako> brendonjt: so work closely with jono which you should be doing already with the loco and he should be willing to help tell you when you're going to be ready to head back here
<mako> lets move on
* Hobbsee attacks Seveas with her long pointy stick.
<brendonjt> Seveas, : but the way it was launched was pretty dim compared to what it should have been, i only discovered it by google had no idea at the stage it even exsisted
<dudanogueira> :)
<Seveas> next up is whitesoft
<Seveas> who could make it after all
<Seveas> brendonjt, help making it grow and you'll get a kiss from Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> now hey!!!
<brendonjt> huh?
<Hobbsee> you most certainly will not
<Kamion> brendonjt: that does sound like a good reason to relaunch with a bit more fanfare
* Hobbsee thumps Seveas 
<thoreauputic> oh dear..... i fear there has been a motion against the chair ;)
<Seveas> whitesoft, ?
<whitesoft> Plese, sorry for m poor english ;)
<brendonjt> yip only got a few weeks to help out  as i am starting back at work  up at 4am till 4am
<whitesoft> Hello, my name is Rolando Blanco (www.blanco.net.ve) I'm System Engeneer, works with Ubuntu since warty, I discover it browsing the net...
<whitesoft> ...How in my country, de gob. do mandatory the use of Linux in the desktop, then I try ubuntu. and be loved whit it.
<whitesoft> I forgot Hasefroch, then changa me mind and my work only Linux,
<whitesoft> How UBUNTU if for Huma, then I decide us it...
<Seveas> Is anyone from the latino american team around to vouch for whitesoft ?
<Seveas> The ubuntu.org.ve site looks nice, how involved are you with it right now whitesoft?
<mako> yes, it is pretty impressive
<Seveas> ok, next sessions are starting here, so unfortunately I'll be away again
<whitesoft> Rigth now I just bring support and teach Ubuntu Linux
<whitesoft> May be someone, ask what can I do for Ubuntu, Welll...
<whitesoft> ...You can check www.ubuntu.org.ve this is the site of the LoCo VenezuelanTeam
<whitesoft> Rigth now, Matt and me are working to change to www.ubuntu-ve.org too
<whitesoft> Questions?
<Hobbsee> elmo, Kamion questions?
<Hobbsee> jono:?
<thoreauputic> anyuone?
<bimberi> sigh
<Kamion> I'd really like to hear something from other Latin American Ubuntu folks
<Kamion> about how whitesoft is doing
<makl10n> thoreauputic: on which agenda the meeting going on. for the time being
<mako> whitesoft: looks really good
<mako> but i'd love to hear from others
<Kamion> Would it be possible to get somebody else on the Latin American team to e-mail in an account of what you've been doing, and we can review that next time (in your absence, if necessary)?
<mako> yes that's fine
<mako> whitesoft: it's good that you've showed up, you don't need to do ita gain
<mako> but it would be good to collect a couple testimonials before we make a decision to approve the membership request
<whitesoft> I m the creator of this, In fact, I host it, and register it, this was a very nice experience, beacause, I did it only me, just along, then every day some one come and join the team
<whitesoft> rigth now, we are more then 500 people, have 3 web administrators, have an IRC channel, and a mailing list, was greate just in 4 mounth
<whitesoft> every body join it, but jus may be official member how sign the Code of Conduct
<whitesoft> who sig, (sorry)
<whitesoft> We are not JUST an other Comunity,,,
<whitesoft> ... we say that we are a Fraternity...
<whitesoft> The official mane of our organization is...
<whitesoft> ... Fraternity Ubuntu Linux of Venezuela.
<whitesoft> We most to try to operate every time whit the COC and try to NO talk bad about any other Operative System...
<whitesoft> Ok, thank you to all.
<mako> whitesoft: great, thanks for showing up
<jono> sorry was on the phone
<Hobbsee> jono: seems that *everyone* was.
<gsuveg> re
<mako> alright
<mako> who is next on the schedule
<Hobbsee> mako: looks like dudanogueira and elkbuntu are here and active, for a start
<Kamion> whitesoft: very glad to hear that, and it sounds like you're doing a good job - we just like to hear from other people with regard to community-building work
<Hobbsee> most of the others seem to be away
<Hobbsee> perhaps we process them first?
<elkbuntu> johnlittle is around also
<johnlittle> n/me is not away
<EdgyEft> dudanogueira is next
* lophyte is not away either
<dudanogueira> here!
<Hobbsee> [00:06]  [Away]  john_little is away: I'm busy
<Hobbsee> [00:06]  [Whois]  john_little has been idle for 2 hours, 46 minutes, and 10 seconds.
<evand> I am here as well
<elkbuntu> wrong johnlittle ;)
<dudanogueira> can start?
<Hobbsee> heh.  your whois' lie then
<mako> alright
<EdgyEft> dudanogueira: please do
<dudanogueira> Its a daily battle. As i borned in a small city, i havent the information necessary for technology freedom. Moved to a bigger city for studing (4 years now!, Gratuating in Public Affairs Management with focus on technology) and for a good work on webdevelopment. Now i finally have tech freedom :)
<dudanogueira> It doesn't came from the college, i had to learn it on the hard way: already on a job. So, i feel the need to spread the free software philosophy and possibilities wherever i can: at colleges, friends, work, partners and on. Its the key for a tech freedom country.
<dudanogueira> In my natal city (a very poor one), i have to admit, its getting better all the time. In 26/10 we gonna have an event in a new college from there, and they called us (ubuntu-br-mg) for talking about software libre, and of course, ubuntu. ;). We'll have workshops, radio and newspappers interview, and a lot more. Wait for photos! It will be the trhird event that i unnoficially represents Ubuntu.  More Details in my Profile: http
<dudanogueira> ://wiki.ubuntu.com/DudaNogueira
<whitesoft> Excelent, just remember please, that in the Launchpad and in the site, I identify my self like rolando, see you Bye...
<dudanogueira> Some cool links: http://barraroumi.wordpress.com/2006/08/29/iii-festival-software-livre-da-bahia-fotos/, http://blog.licio.eti.br/?p=21, http://fotos.ubuntubrasil.org/v/1UbuntuBeerH/
<mako> dudanogueira: thanks
<mako> dudanogueira: i'm checking out the links/wiki
<mako> elmo: 
<mako> elmo: "Author on Brazilian Ubuntu Planet"
<mako> elmo: improvement this time :)
<Seveas> :D
<dudanogueira> mako, unfortunately, my fellows coudnt be present in a great number, as they had to work
<nixternal> lol mako
<mako> dudanogueira: can you provide a link to your brazilian forum posts?
<mako> like a summary or a place we can view them?
<dudanogueira> mako, owk, im grabbing it
<mako> thanks
<Seveas> dudanogueira: that actually is not too bad, the -br crowd was rather noisy last time
<mako> well, it's nice to have someone
<dudanogueira> Seveas, yeah. -br people here is very active
<mako> if folks can't come, they are welcome to send testimionaisl to community-council@list.u.c
<Seveas> -br must be the locoteam with most Ubuntu members
<dudanogueira> mako, cant find how to index all the posts
<mako> Seveas: yeah, probably
<sfair> Seveas, and we wanna be the most active too :-)
<dudanogueira> mako, already granted licio, Ubuntuser, OgMaciel and other testimonials, that will be sent later
<sfair> may I say some words about dudanogueira?
<Seveas> sfair: please
<sfair> mako, http://planeta.ubuntubrasil.org/author/35 (dudanogueira's posts)
<mako> sfair: those are not forums posts
<mako> sfair: those are planet posts, i already saw that
<sfair> as a member of ubuntu-br-doc i'd like to say that we have good guys working here and duda is one of them
<sfair> he does an excelent job, helping us to improve our wiki... he also helps doing translations
<sfair> mako, sorry
<mako> sfair: that's useful, thanks
<mako> dudanogueira: can you at least point me to your user profile in the forums?
<dudanogueira> mako, it should be here: http://ubuntu.linuxval.org/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=4543;sa=showPosts
<sfair> and dudanogueira also has a great job spreading the ubuntu spirit as he said in his wikipage
<dudanogueira> sfair, thank you :)
<Kamion> dudanogueira: out of interest, what have you been doing with the accessibility team?
<Seveas> Nome:  	bit_doidao
<Seveas> Mensagens: 	24 (0,329 por dia)
<Seveas> Posio: 	Usurio Ubuntu
<Seveas> Data de registo: 	07 de Julho de 2006, 12:02
<Seveas> ltima visita: 	Hoje s 11:16
<Seveas> (from his profile)
<dudanogueira> Kamion, as i "converted" my mother, i listen her complains and experiences. From now i coudnt help a lot
<dudanogueira> but its on my plans to make some suggestions. Simple things that bothers beginner users
<jsgotangco> that's not accessibility related
<Kamion> accessibility => disabled users
<dudanogueira> Kamion, owk, maybe i misunderstood the initial concept.
<jsgotangco> you might want to check out NUN (New User Network)
<Seveas> anyone have questions for dudanogueira ?
<Kamion> you seem to have done a fair bit of translation work though, along with the rest of the pt_BR cabal :)
<dudanogueira> any questions?
<mako> dudanogueira: wait, so you've posted only 24 messages on that account
<mako> that's fine
<mako> but it doesn't seem like that would qualify as an active contributor
<mako> especially since it's over several months
<dudanogueira> mako my focus is on wiki and translating the educational apps
<mako> that's fine
<mako> but on your wiki page, you claimed an active role in the forums and i'm not really finding that
<dudanogueira> and also spreading the free software phisolophy in related events
<dudanogueira> mako, active in the server talk area, and this area isnt so active. But i have one eye on there, and every question i try to solve as i can :)
<Seveas> More questions?
<mako> dudanogueira: have you done your translation through rosetta
<Kamion> I have to go and pick my stepson up from school; I'll be back in about 15 minutes
<Kamion> please do continue without me and I'll vote belatedly if necessary
<Seveas> Kamion: ok
<dudanogueira> mako, some stuffs are translated in rosseta, but the mainly content is translated in our wiki, also produced too
<dudanogueira> in rosetta i give a focus on educational softwares
<mako> dudanogueira: can you point to some wiki pages that you are proud of that you have helped do?
<dudanogueira> mako: http://wiki.ubuntubrasil.org/VoipNoUbuntu
<mako> dudanogueira: your wiki page is good in that it lists a lot of things that you ahve worked on but without links it makes it very hard to verify most of your claims
<mako> which it's our responsibility to do :)
<dudanogueira> its a article for using Voip on Ubuntu, as far as the VOIP operators doesnt say that linux is suported. 
<mako> cool, looking now
<mako> any others that come to mind?
<dudanogueira> mako, translated the iptables and restriceted formats (looking in to it)
<Kamping_Kaiser> sorry to interupt, but i have to go. heres my *woot* of support for elkbuntu . *woot elkbuntu *
<dudanogueira> and also the SubGruposRegionais, that is a try to map all the brazilian user on a per city basis
<jsgotangco> this is probably the longest CC meeting of all time
<mako> i know
<thoreauputic> jsgotangco: I think a serious look at limiting time spent on each issue would help...
<siccness> ^
<mako> yes
<Seveas> jsgotangco: thoreauputic, meta-discussions like this don't help
<dudanogueira> wiki.ubuntubrasil.org/SubGruposRegionais, wiki.ubuntubrasil.org/FormatosProprietarios
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<thoreauputic> Seveas: meta discussions may not help, but this meetinghas been a farce, sorry
<mako> dudanogueira: but much of those pages are not translated
<mako> at least the last one
<mako> dudanogueira: it looks good but i'm going to want to see a few more testimonials
<dudanogueira> mako, strange. it was 100% translated
<mako> really?
<mako> dudanogueira: look at wiki.ubuntubrasil.org/FormatosProprietarios
<dudanogueira> as far as i can remember
<dudanogueira> already on there
<mako> only up until  Real Media
<mako> and http://wiki.ubuntubrasil.org/SubGruposRegionais is just a list
<mako> anyway, i'd really like to have a few more testimonials
<mako> especially because you come from a team with so many members
<mako> there's really not excuse not to
<mako> :)
<Seveas> Looking at the info for the Formatos page, dudanogueira didn't doo too much on it
<mako> dudanogueira: and try to provide links and example for all of the things on your wiki page
<dudanogueira> Seveas, we are working on it
<dudanogueira> also http://wiki.ubuntubrasil.org/Iptables
<jsgotangco> pretty good lp karma though, if not only recently
<Seveas> dudanogueira: pleasee collect dome testimonials from others
<Seveas> mako: I propose to move forward
<mako> please
<dudanogueira> mako, Seveas sure :)
<mako> i need to be at work in like -1 hour :)
<Seveas> evand: you're on
<evand> Hi, I'm Evan Dandrea.  My Launchpad page is https://launchpad.net/people/evand.  I was one of the students working for Ubuntu in this year's Summer of Code.  I am working on adding migration assistance to debian-installer and Ubiquity.
<evand> This project enables users to import user accounts, documents, and a variety of settings from their previous operating systems.  This project has made it into Universe for Edgy, though it is not included in the installer as it wasn't ready for mass use at the cutoff.
<evand> Going forward I'm aiming for inclusion on the CD for Edgy+1 as well as Vista and OS X support.
<mako> evand: who was your mentor?
<jsgotangco> Kamion was your mentor no?
<evand> mako: Kamion
<evand> jsgotangco: correct
<mako> did Kamion suggest that you apply for membership?
<evand> I brought it up with him, but he was willing to support it.
<mako> that's a pretty high endorsement
<evand> I know :)
<jsgotangco> and his project is in edgy
<evand> as a source package, yes
<mako> yes
<evand> Kamion did say he would speak on my behalf, but as he said above he's a bit tied up at the moment.
<Seveas> evand: do you mind if we postpone you until he's back?
<evand> Seveas: Not at all
<Seveas> evand: thank you, let's move on then, johnlittle is up next
<johnlittle> Hi all. I will try to make this brief
<johnlittle> My name is John Little. I've been an Ubuntu user and advocate since Warty. I'm a member of the Marketing Team, where among other things I work on the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter. I have blogged about Ubuntu in various locations since its initial release. My personal blog is ranked by Technorati as the second most authoritative Ubuntu blog. Continued...
<johnlittle> More recently, I've created Ubuntu Video (http://www.ubuntuvideo.com) and it is the focus of much of my Ubuntu-related work. I'm also providing technical feedback to the Fridge editors and if all goes well will eventually be able to get access and help them with some Drupal administration issues that will help with SEO and site maintenance. My wiki address is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnLittle. Let the grilling begin.
<Seveas> Any marketing/fridge people around for cheering?
<bimberi> \o/ for johnlittle, in particular the fantastic Ubuntu Video site and i'm aware of his strong contributions to the marketing team over the last two months (at least).  I'm also aware that he sat through an excruciating CC meeting while applying for membership ;p
<thoreauputic> :)
<elkbuntu> he's done alot with the marketing group, yeah
<mako> evand: i'm happy with membership FWIW
<evand> thanks mako 
* Seveas kicks the wiki
<nixternal> johnlittle has done so much from an advocational aspect for Ubuntu in such a short time.  He has helped out a lot with the UWN, created a new project on his own, and merged it with Ubuntu Marketing, Ubuntu Video. He is a ++ candidate IMHO and would be an assett to Ubuntu and the community
<elkbuntu> we're trying to get burgwork and nixternal currently
<Seveas> nixternal: thanks a lot
<mindspin> nixternal: ++
<mako> johnlittle: great work!
<mako> i hadn't seen ubuntuvideo before
<johnlittle> Thank you
<mako> suprisingly
<nixternal> Ubuntu Video totally kicks arse!
<mako> a littlea nnoying it can't be played without flash, but that's not really your fault
<nixternal> he has even put up his own money as a bounty to receive some killer videos!
<johnlittle> theres a flash fee section on the right sidebar
<johnlittle> free
<mako> oh really!
<mako> cool
<thoreauputic> mako: actually IIRCsome can be played with ffplay for instance ( flv?)
<mako> yes, 
<johnlittle> Part of the goal is to get people to push videos out to google video and youtube..hence the flash part
* mako stops watching videos and goes back to the meeting
<mako> corey burger sent a testimonial over email as well
<nixternal> haha
<mako> I have also worked with John Little as part of the Marketing Team and
<mako> have been very pleased with John's work and communication skills. John
<mako> started Ubuntu Video (ubuntuvideo.com) before he even found out about
<mako> the Marketing Team, but after some communication with him, quickly
<mako> came to help us out. He has also thrown himself into helping create
<mako> the Ubuntu Weekly News and have nothing but praise for his efforts in
<mako> that area. You can read more about John at
<mako> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnLittle
<mako> johnlittle: anyway, great and original contributions
<johnlittle> Thanks again
<mako> johnlittle: stuff we've never seen before :)
<mako> i'm happy with johnlittle for membership
<mako> elmo: ?
<nixternal> plus he interviews politicians!  he is our way into congress ;)
<elmo> ack
<mako> johnlittle: great 2/3, Kamion will weigh in when he returns
<Seveas> ok, Lie_Ex 
<Kamion> back
<Lie_Ex> Here.
<mako> Lie_Ex: wait
<mako> lets finish with evand first
<evand> Thanks
<mako> Kamion: want to say a word about evand since you worked with him?
<Kamion> I'm happy with John Little too
<Kamion> impressive testimonials
<Seveas> johnlittle: congratulations!
<johnlittle> Woot! Thanks
<bimberi> congrats johnlittle :)
<nixternal> congrats johnlittle
<Kamion> yeah, I worked with Evan this summer; very competent development work, quick understanding of the infrastructure involved, and the migration assistant will (when ready) be an excellent tool for attracting switchers
<Kamion> which I believe is a substantial part of Evan's motivation
<Kamion> I saw Evan around a little bit before the summer of code, and he's willing and eager to continue contributing after it
<Seveas> sounds good
<Kamion> while Evan did bring it up with me, I also expressed a desire that he go for membership while writing up his final Google report, before reading what he'd written
<Kamion> so I was pleased that it occurred to both of us
<evand> Ah, I forgot about that, sorry.
<Kamion> I can't remember if I mentioned it, but no worries anyway
<mako> great :)
<mako> well i'm happy with evand with membership
<Kamion> so, er, slightly obviously, evand++ for membership, and I'd like to see him go for MOTU as well
<evand> will do
<Seveas> elmo: ?
<Seveas> elmo will catch up, we really should move on
<Kamion> nod
<Seveas> (unless anyone protests)
<Seveas> Lie_Ex: please paste your introduction
<evand> Kamion: thanks for the kind words
<Lie_Ex> Hi,all.I'm Chinese,Lie Ex is my English name.
<elmo> ack
<Lie_Ex> I've been a Linux desktop user for 2+ years and started using Ubuntu from Breezy.Before 4 months I joined zh_CN translation team.
<Kamion> evand: no problem, and looks like elmo agrees, so you're in
<Seveas> elmo: merci, evand: congrats!
<evand> great!  Thanks everyone!  Sorry to interrupt Lie_Ex.
<Seveas> are there some l10n-zh-cn people around to testify?
<Lie_Ex> I'm charge of the tranlastion of basement apps now.
<mako> your translation work looks very impressive
<Kamion> basement> base system?
<Lie_Ex> My wiki page:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lie_ex
<mako> the KDE booklet that you put together does as well, although it's not directly related to work in the ubuntu community
<Lie_Ex> Kamion: e.g:coreutils/quota/rpm and so on.
<mako> Lie_Ex: many of your rosetta translations seem to be in kde apps?
<mako> Lie_Ex: still your interest?
<Kamion> right
<Lie_Ex> mako: Yes,and for working.
<freeflying> Seveas: me
<Kamion> you said you were interested in coordinating translation; is anyone filling that role at present?
<Seveas> freeflying: any comments/testimonials about Lie_Ex are welcome, so please speak up :)
<Kamion> or do you mean the localisation/translation team leader post?
<freeflying> Lie_Ex: have done many translation on launchpad, we all appreciate with her work
<Lie_Ex> Kamion: It looks that we're lacking of the person now.
<freeflying> Seveas: Kamion  and we think Lie_Ex is the right now for l10n-zhcn
* Lie_Ex Maybe I made some grammar error.:P
<Seveas> sounds good
<Lie_Ex> Kamion: Meanwhile I try to spread Ubuntu/Kubuntu to my company,the effect looks well.
<Seveas> any other questions?
<Kamion> I'm happy
<Seveas> 1 down
<Seveas> mako, elmo?
<mako> sorry, called away there for a moment
<nixternal> ;)
<Seveas> argh, ok, sorry about the pinging folks
<mako> phone call :)
<Seveas> irssi got the better of me
<mako> but yeah, i'm happy with Lie_Ex 
<popey> heh
<mako> great translation work
<Lie_Ex> thx.:)
<Seveas> ok, elkbuntu please start your introduction while we wait for elmos vot
<Seveas> e
<elkbuntu> Hi, I'm Melissa Draper, aka elkbuntu. You may have heard of me in conjunction with the Ubuntu Counter (http://www.ubuntucounter.org) or the surveys (http://surveys.geekosophical.net) that are currently being done. I'm also the LoCo Contact for the Australian LoCo and lately I've been working with jono on a LoCo Mentoring pilot/feasibility case study. I've also done a bit of support stuff and so forth in #ubuntu and on the 
<elkbuntu> -users mailing list, but lately I have focused on the abovementioned things. My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MelissaDraper and my launchpad is https://launchpad.net/people/melissa
<Hobbsee> yay elkbuntu!
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu has been doing a terrific job of running the Australian Team.
<johnlittle> Elkbuntu hardly needs props from me..but shes done awesome work
<bimberi> elkbuntu is doing a great job as LoCo-au team contact - maintaining the momentum established by her predecessor.  Then there's the work with the marketing team and the ubuntu counter and, just recently, the ubuntu surveys.  She has been and will be a great asset to this community.
<Fujitsu> The counter and surveys are fantastic too!
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu is also a great contributor on IRC
<jsgotangco> we can now all bow to her ubuntu-au majesty
<siccness> Indeed, thoreauputic.
<Fujitsu> jsgotangco, yup.
* gnomefreak cheers for elkbuntu :)
<nixternal> Melissa Rocks!  Need we say more than "Ubuntu Counter". This little project blew up and became fairly popular, and has helped tremendously from a marketing standpoint. Plus you have her work with the Aussie team. Excellent member candidate and w/o a doubt another asset to the community!
<elkbuntu> wow.. thanks guys
<mako> corey burger also sent a very positive testimonial about elkbuntu 
<jrib> I know elkbuntu basically because of the counters and surveys, they seem to have generated a lot of discussion on digg and the likes.  She seems really comitted!
<lucychili> +++ from kamping kaiser siccness and me
<bimberi> and the fact that we've stayed around this late to cheer her on demonstrates the esteem in which we hold her :)
<mako> yes :)
<rikai> Indeed.
<siccness> Heh
<thoreauputic> bimberi: it does indeed :)
* Fujitsu yawns... It's 1am.
<elmo> ack lie_ex
<nixternal> truth be told, she threatened the Aussies w/ physica bodily harm if they didn't stay
<lucychili> sorry siccness thought youd scarpered =)
<Seveas> elmo: merci
<Seveas> Lie_Ex: welcome to "the club"
<elmo> (sorry, was AFK)
<mako> elkbuntu: great work :)
<rodarvus> dude, elkbuntu is probably the new record holding person for most chering in a CC meeting :)
<freeflying> Lie_Ex: congrats
<siccness> Heh, I did, but wanted to support elkbuntu
<bimberi> congrats Lie_Ex!
<elkbuntu> nixternal, of course you know this since you're aussie, right ;)
<mako> elkbuntu: i'm looking forward to your loco mentoring work with jono
<Seveas> is anyone doing LP duty today?
<mako> Seveas: i can do it after the meeting
<nixternal> nope, im a lonely chicago`ite or something like that ;)
<rodarvus> *cheering
<Seveas> mako: thanks
<Kamion> elkbuntu's work and testimonials are impressive, and I'm especially pleased to see somebody else working on general locoteam coordination
<mako> elkbuntu: you have my support 
* rikai whistles loudly in support of elkbuntu.
<Lie_Ex> Seveas: Well,thank you for ratify.
<thoreauputic> in addition to her great work, elkbuntu helps to keep a good atmosphere in the channels
<nalioth> +1 for elkbuntu 
<johnlittle> and she rounds up puppies for Corey Burger
<thoreauputic> heh
<elkbuntu> johnlittle, he demanded kittens for the recommendation
<johnlittle> :)
<Kamion> elmo: how about you?
<elmo> ack
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<elkbuntu> :)
<nixternal> woohoo!! Ubuntu Marketing 2/2! Congratulations elkbuntu and johnlittle!!!
<johnlittle> Congrats!
<Fujitsu> Congrats elkbuntu :D
<Seveas> elkbuntu: thanks for rocking so hard and being fast in the meeting
<bimberi> \o/ elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> thanks everyone!
<siccness> Congrats elkbuntu
<Hobbsee> yay elkbuntu!
<Fujitsu> bimberi, agreed!
<siccness> now i can go to bed :)
<Seveas> superm1: you're up
<mindspin> congrats
<freeflying> elkbuntu: congrats
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> doh
<Seveas> lol
<Hobbsee> heh
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: well done :)
<Fujitsu> Hahahaha.
<nixternal> break it down one time
<rikai> elkbuntu: congrats
<Seveas> ok, lophyte please go first
<siccness> lol
<Seveas> ah wait
<jsgotangco> heh au folks are holding on at this hour
<Fujitsu> Seveas, he went to bed.
<Seveas> superm1: try not to flood ;)
<nixternal> Seveas: lophyte had to split
<superm1> whoops got booted for flooding
<gnomefreak> congrats elkbuntu :)
<Fujitsu> *away, not to be
<superm1> ill try agin
<Fujitsu> *bed
<rikai> Seveas: he had to leave.
<superm1> Hi everyone, I'm Mario Limonciello (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/superm1).  I've been a long time Gentoo user, and converted to beign an Ubuntu user the last year.  I switched because I was helping set up linux for a friend, and wanted something very user friendly for them.  I hadn't used Ubuntu, but heard raving reviews about how great it was.
<Fujitsu> jsgotangco, yeah..
<superm1>  Once I set it up for her, I acknowledged why it was so great and began to start using it myself.  Since then, I've tried to give back to the community in helping people on the forums, even going through and mining beginner posts every so often for quick answers to help them with.  I have taken an interest in compiz/xgl, and maintaining a HOWTO on compiz.net for setting it up a bit differently then most people.  All along 
<superm1>  As newer versions were released in Ubuntu, packaging started to fall behind.  Earlier this year, I wanted to try to do something to help this situation.  I learned how to package in debian format and properly packaged a mythtv 0.19-fixes branch to match the current Gentoo revision at the time.
<superm1> Since then, I have tried to keep up on the packaging up through the recent 0.20 release.  The most recent build is now a sync from debian-multimedia along with a patch from my own personal repository for gnome-screensaver support.  I'm looking to become an Ubuntu member to join the MOTU's, and be able to help get newer software like MythTV into Ubuntu sooner, so we dont go through a release that misses a new version of som
<Kamion> oh, we need to deal with those debian-multimedia syncs ...
<superm1> haha
<Fujitsu> Kamion, yes you do.
<Seveas> superm1: your wiki page doesn't really show any significant contribution to Ubuntu -- did you bring any -ca or -marketing people to cheer for you?
<nixternal> hmm
<superm1> Unfortunately, I didn't bring anyone along.  I was asking some MOTUs to join, but they said they couldn't make it
<superm1> I've tried to present my repo however I could
<mako> he's done a bunch of work on the multimedia stuff.. but most of seem slike it's still in the process of transitioning into the project
<Kamion> I think that's mostly not his fault
<Kamion> but sure
* mako nods to Kamion 
<mako> superm1: do you have testomials
<Kamion> (multimedia syncs tend to require lots of review due to the prevalence of dodgy licensing/patents)
<superm1> Just people on the forums saying thanks and such for putting repos up really
<superm1> And then imbrandon thanked me for helping get mythtv into revu so soon
<superm1> after marrilat finished his package
<superm1> I've searched around the net and seen my repos put up for some myth howtos even.  in languages I don't know how to read :)
<jsgotangco> yeah that happens
<jsgotangco> you just get surprised at the same time happy to know
<superm1> yea
<mako> superm1: lets wait until a few more people get a chance to take a look at it
<superm1> k
<mako> superm1: with a few testimonials and a continued role of maintaining the packages, you should be a no-brainer
<mako> superm1: work with jono to make sure he's comfortable with the state of the app
<superm1> Ok
<mako> superm1: and when he gives a nod, come on back :)
<mako> cool
<superm1> sounds good to me
<Seveas> WE MADE IT
<Seveas> the end of the agenda :)
* GazzaK faints
<elkbuntu> yay!
<Seveas> now to determine date & time of the next one
<Seveas> Oct 3, but which time?
<elmo> how about a 2 year break instead of 2 weeks?
<Seveas> elmo: heh
<elkbuntu> nice try
<Seveas> elmo: I'll be e-mailing the CC about some proposals to shorten the meetings 
<jsgotangco> heh
<Seveas> mako/elmo/kamion: any time proposals?
<GazzaK> wiring up to electric chairs with remote switches?
<elmo> I'm easy
<elmo> early evening this time? like 5pm UTC or so?
<mako> yes
<Seveas> ack
<mako> that sounds fine
<mako> let me put it in my calendar
<mako> i forgot to put todays
<elmo> Kamion: ok for you too?
<mako> great
<Kamion> yes, that's ok
<Kamion> (sorry, was called away by veg box delivery)
<Seveas> see you all next time people, I'll edit the agenda later today
<Kamion> also, I should mention that I e-mailed notice that I'd like to retire from the CC
<Seveas> thanks to all (and the CC in particular) for lasting
<Kamion> assuming Mark accepts that, I expect that there'll need to be some kind of new CC member election
<Kamion> (since my two-year term is up, and I think others can probably do a better job than me by now)
<Seveas> Kamion: I'd like to propose jono as candidate
<Kamion> Jono was also one of my proposals
<Kamion> however, nominations are Mark's decision
<Seveas> true
<Kamion> anyhow, I need to go and clean up a spill
<Seveas> have fun, see you in 2 weeks!
<makl10n> so the meeting is over
<Seveas> makl10n: yes, finally
<gnomefreak> makl10n: yes
<jsgotangco> makl10n: finally
<rikai> Later CC people, thanks for putting up with all that. :)
<makl10n> Seveas: the CC meeting is finished
<makl10n> what about the Localization / Translation Team Leader agenda
<Seveas> makl10n: oh damn
<nixternal> LOL
<Seveas> makl10n: I doubt that the CC has enough energy for that right now, and og and the LP crew are also missing
<makl10n> hmm...
<dudanogueira> Seveas, one of the proposed members for translation leader isnt here, OgMaciel :(
<Seveas> makl10n: my apologies for forgettingto bring it up earlier
<Linuturk_yaaarr> just accept them all ;p
<makl10n> its.. Okay. I watched how busy you were
<makl10n> :P
<makl10n> Seveas: I can realize you had the longest meeting ever for CC
<Seveas> there was a longer one
<Seveas> once
<mako> yes, sorry, i'm done for the day
<mako> with this meeting at least :)
<makl10n> Okay no prob
<makl10n> Alaways there is a next time
<jsgotangco> heh ciao
<makl10n> EdgyEft: Shall I leave? Say something
<makl10n> EdgyEft: How about on next meeting?
<makl10n> Kamion: Shall I leave?
<makl10n> *i'm leaving
<rikai> "There was a legend of a longer CC meeting... But it has long since been lost in the annals of ubuntu history..." *awkward silence*  "...We forgot to log it, ok?"
<eyequeue> all that time, but the irc on freenode issue never got discussed
<johnlittle> Is there ant sort of followup us new member tyoes have to do?
<johnlittle> any
<nalioth> johnlittle: be patient?
<nixternal> you still have initiation hazing to go through...meet us at the UDS Mountain View for that ;)
<Kamion> nope, mako will do the LP processing, and at some point soon after that an @ubuntu.com address should be semiautomatically created
<johnlittle> k
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-20
<fabbione> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 20 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* y3dips is away (back to the real world)
<digitalmouse> greetings programs! :)
<digitalmouse> don't want to 'underscore' your importance, Hobbsee?  :P
<Hobbsee> digitalmouse: :P  i've been fighting with edgy, and lost, so went back to dapper until i get home
<digitalmouse> ah
<digitalmouse> i use to like bleeding edge distros, but found out i spent more time tinkering with them then actually getting work done.  rural economics (paying bills, feeding mouth) took precedence, so i'm content with kubuntu 6.06 release+updates.
<digitalmouse> i'll leave the tinkering to you :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> it worked when i left the house!
<digitalmouse> the sad thing about ubuntu support is that there is mostly no need for it!  i've installed/spread ubuntu on roughly 15-20 machines now (desktop and server roles) and only one lady had trouble.  the rest never called back (except with praise)
<digitalmouse> i have to support windows to pay the bills :p
<Hobbsee> lol
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> --> #ubuntu-offtopic
* digitalmouse goes back to work
<DBO> @now Detroit
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Detroit: September 20 2006, 05:42:47 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 2 hours 17 minutes
<rodarvus> @now Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Sao_Paulo: September 20 2006, 08:22:22 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 37 minutes
<juliux> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 20 Sep 12:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Sep 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<RichEd> hello ... back in 2 mins ...
<willvdl> Present Sgt. Major!
<pips1> here
<ogra> ok, a very very quick update that really swallows 90% of what i'd like to say ... 
<RichEd> hello all ... thanks for joining us
<juliux> hi ogra RichEd 
<RichEd> ogra will give us a quick tech update on:
<ogra> i was at the ltsp hackfest as some of you might know (just fell out of the plane 2h ago ...)
<RichEd> 1)  the LTSP hack fest
<RichEd> 2) freeze testing
* RichEd sits down
<ogra> ok
<willvdl> it's raining ogras!
<ogra> on the hackfest (apart from fixing upstream stuff in ltsp) we tackled the following bugs:
<ogra> localdev should work 100% including floppies with my next upload 
<ogra> its very well tested ;)
<pips1> :-)
<rodarvus> \o/
<willvdl> woop
<ogra> etherboot should already work agically out of the box ...
<ogra> *magically
<ogra> since my last upload...
<ogra> so no user has to care anymore about tech stuff here ...
<ogra> just plug in a client and press the power button
<ogra> *any* client
<ogra> i'm now getting on the printer stuff ...
<ogra> so there is only one thing we dont provide that ltsp 4.2 does
<ogra> which is rdesktop (windows terminal server client) support
<ogra> i have patches here for that as well, but they are to inrusive to go into edgy
<ogra> one thing on the cd installer is missing, i'll have to file a bug for Kamion about that i didnt yet ...
<ogra> (removing the question for the IP address of the 1st NIC in the installer and make it use dhcp again)
<ogra> the CD should so far be able to install an out of the box ltsp now that nobody needs to touch manualy ...
<ogra> (if you have two NICs which will be our default requirement for the defaul (server) install from now on)
<ogra> if you have one or more than two, it will tell you what to do in the installer itself
<highvoltage> hi!
<ogra> so we dont need to point users to the gettingstarted page anymore ;)
<RichEd> hey highvoltage 
<ogra> stuff from there should be already set after the first reboot 
<pips1> so the edubuntu terminal server will detect any dhcp server that is present somewhere in the network?
<ogra> (indeed its still a good doc, but no requirement anymore)
<ogra> pips1, no
<highvoltage> ogra: wow, that's great! edubuntu ltsp has come so far.
<ogra> the first NIC will operate automatically in client mode for an existing dhcp server
<ogra> the second NIC will operate in server mode for ltsp ...
<pips1> ic
<ogra> since the knot3+1day iso we also have the defaults set for ltsp ...
<ogra> localdev, network swap, 16bit colors are automatically on
<ogra> network swap by default gets us now  into the position to tighten the minimal requirements for clients to 32M
<ogra> ;)
<willvdl> cool. how efficient is the network swap?
<ogra> oh i forgot tha sound is on by default as well
<ogra> for now we only add 32M fixed size files 
<TeePOG> g'day
<ogra> i doubt i can increase that for edgy (was planning to do so this week until i realized that freeze is tomorrow)
<highvoltage> for pure thin clients 32MB is plenty
<ogra> nbd works in a way that we can just create swap devices over and over ....
<ogra> so edgy+1 will have as much swap as you want by creating nbd devices of 32M size ...
<ogra> (automatically)
<ogra> i actually plan to detect memsize there and dynamically create swap devices
<highvoltage> sounds like a spec :)
<pips1> NBD = non block device ?
<ogra> which puts the server disk reqs a bit higher ...
<ogra> N==network
<pips1> ta
<ogra> highvoltage, well, its a simple 5 line enhancement to the existing code
<ogra> i doubt that needs a spec
<ogra> its just further automation
<highvoltage> cool
<ogra> printers wil work the ltsp.org way in edgy ...
<ogra> *that* will need a spec for edgy+1
<rodarvus> what is the ltsp.org way?
<ogra> your printer needs to be present/attached before boot and you need to add options in lts.conf
<ogra> for edgy+1 i want to hand it over to uedv ...
<ogra> *udev
<rodarvus> *nods*
<ogra> that means, if you plug in an usb or parallel printer it will just show up as available in your session
<cbx33> sorry I'm late
<ogra> (wont work for serial printers though)
<cbx33> work commitments
<ogra> i.e. if you use a cash termonal
<ogra> *terminal
<ogra> but for that we can still offer lts.conf ... its a special HW setup anyway
<ogra> freeze testing is documented on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuKnot3LTSPTesting
<ogra> the steps there should all work with the current isos post knot3
<ogra> (dailies)
<cbx33> nice ;)
<pips1> so, in edgy, usb and parallel printers need to be attached before the terminal server starts, righty?
<ogra> i didnt test all changes we made during the hackfest on all hardware i have here ...
<ogra> so thats what i'll do now ... since i onyl have 24h left for it ... i'll not be responsive after the meeting
<cbx33> ogra: I'd better get my patch for gconf ready too
<ogra> pips1, right, and they need to be added to the lts.conf according to the ltsp.org docs 
<ogra> (i'll merge that oin the wiki before release)
<ogra> cbx33, ??
<pips1> ogra, is there any particular testing we can help you with? 
<cbx33> ogra: there is a little patch needed for the default /etc/gconf/2/path file
<ogra> pips1, download the dailies form tomorrow on and follow the wikipage
<pips1> oki
<ogra> cbx33, scp-client needs to gracefully die if LTSP_CLIENT isnt set, else it runs on all sessions, even locally
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> want a patch for that?
<ogra> and it should die with gnome-session (it seems to not do that atm)
<cbx33> does this have to be before beta freeze?
<ogra> that would be nice
<cbx33> oh, it should do...
<ogra> well, *i* personally would consider it an RC bug... but mdz has the last word on that, so having it in before freeze would be nicer
<cbx33> I'll do my bese
<cbx33> *t
<ogra> cbx33, did you see my artwork comments in #edubuntu ?
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> did you run png crush on them?
<ogra> are you sure that works with indexed pngs and with usplash ? 
<cbx33> hmm....no I'm not 
<cbx33> :(
<ogra> me neither 
<ogra> so we need to test that
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> if you want to revert to a simpler image because of those bandwidth constraints we'll have to
<cbx33> when you said needs to be fixed....what did you mean
<ogra> if you have a quick fix for that then yes ... if you have to put hours into designing a new one then rather turn down saturation on the ld one and lets do the pngcrush test
<ogra> *old
<cbx33> ok, let's turn down sat and pngcrush
<cbx33> if that still doesn't work....we can work out something
<ogra> ok
<ogra> i'm not sure how freeze critical artwork is considered though
<cbx33> ok...
<ogra> but worst case it is freeze critical ...
<cbx33> can we find that information out?
<ogra> if mdz is up ...
<ogra> in 2-3h
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> (i guess)
<cbx33> did you want me to desat and pngcrush?
<ogra> wouldbe nice ... since you have the originals of the pics :P
<cbx33> ;P np
<ogra> also i'd like to take the people pic you called default-bg for gdm ... couls you discuss that in the artwork part of this meeting (and put it up for the others)
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> hmm....
<cbx33> putting it up may prove difficult 
<cbx33> I haveno acces to my server here
<Linuturk_code> imageshack.us?
<ogra> i'll put it on people ... dont worry
<cbx33> thanks
<ogra> as soon as my ltsp-build-client finished
<ogra> (which might extend the meeting though)
<cbx33> ogra: I'll do it don;t worry
<cbx33> I have a workardoun
<ogra> ok
<ogra> thats it from my side ...
<ogra> RichEd, here to take over ? 
<RichEd> sure ...
<ogra> thanks :)
<willvdl> three cheers
<ogra> any questions from your side wrt tech ? 
<pips1> cheers to ogra
<ogra> :)
<pips1> and all other ltsp hackers :-)
<cbx33> ogra: you rock
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> they helped a lot the last days :)
<RichEd> Thanks to Oliver ... who has fixed LTSP ... and who has been up for 36 hours ... has flown back across the atlantic ... and who now works to beat the freeze.
<ogra> sbalneav deserves a medal for learning bzr and packaging 
<pips1> ogra, there is a 6 page article on LTSP in the newest c't magazine :-)
<ogra> he maintains ltspfs himself now ... i'm only upload bitch for him
<ogra> pips1, i heard so
<ogra> didnt get around to buy one yet
<RichEd> pips1: is there any online publishing or link to this ?
<cbx33> ogra: http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/wallpaper-generic.png
<rodarvus> ogra, does scott plan to go through motu soon?
<rodarvus> would be nice to have him as ubuntu-devel
<ogra> RichEd, nope, c't doesnt publish as long as you can buy it
<ogra> (on paper)
* pips1 goes to find out 
<ogra> rodarvus, he's going for motu 
<RichEd> historically LTSP was seen as a solution for low spec h/w schools solutions
<ogra> RichEd, well, not really
<RichEd> I'm seeing more and more debate about LTSP as being ideal for simple commercial environments.
<ogra> it was rather for business cases 
<ogra> right, that was its initial purpose
<ogra> k12 brought it in the school sector
<RichEd> I'm seeing a lot of comment on the business side now.
<willvdl> ogra, yeah a lot of businesses use (linux) terminal clients
<ogra> jammcq develops for health care and stuff like that ...
<TeePOG> that's my queue... we're using ltsp in the internet cafe. Running both as standalone clients for safe websurfing, and virtual dekstops through VMWare Player's PXE boot
<TeePOG> *desktops
<RichEd> Maybe it's just my education background that gave me the reverse slant.
<ogra> he didnt develop it for schools first place
<pips1> RichEd: no, the article isn't online, only in print :-/ (BTW, c't is the major German computing magazine)
<RichEd> guys meet TeePog :) also from South Africa
<ogra> its from the heise editors  ... www.heise.de is also the biggest IT news site
* TeePOG takes a bow
<ogra> hey TeePOG 
<ogra> sorry for not ponging you the last days ...
<RichEd> He's the person I suggested at the last meeting who may be keen to help generalise the cookbook/ handbook into an icafe version or annexure
<TeePOG> no worries, everyone's busy
<ogra> but i was somewhat on and off all the time
<TeePOG> sure, i'd love that!
<RichEd> TeePOG: the general suggestion was that we keep 1 practical version, and then have sector specific annexures
<cbx33> ogra: what was the 2Mb file?
<ogra> TeePOG, do you have any hints for cafe software ? i get questions about that quite often
<RichEd> I'll move that conversation into the document meetings .. and wil broker a link.
<ogra> cbx33, 
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ ls -lh /usr/lib/usplash/edubuntu-splash.so 
<ogra> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2,0M 2006-09-16 17:51 /usr/lib/usplash/edubuntu-splash.so
<TeePOG> ogra: this is one sector where OSS is sadly lacking... whether Windows- or *nix-based... Mac OS X has a free management system though
<ogra> right
<cbx33> ogra: pngcrush took 100K off one of the files
<cbx33> 300K -> 200K
<RichEd> Just a comment about your question to TeePOG : this is any example of how a solution space for a sector can help people help each other
<ogra> TeePOG, there is one horrible app (forgot its name) but thats written in delphi ...
<ogra> (for linux though)
<TeePOG> hey, yeah, that was from AJ Venter [the OpenLab guy]  actually
<ogra> ok, back on topic ;)
<RichEd> But we will keep TeePOG with us until we can find him a nice home :)
<TeePOG> never worked here
* TeePOG shuts up and watches
<RichEd> rodarvus: ping - any technica news ?
<ogra> since icafes arent really edubuntu :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<juliux> hi jsgotangco 
<RichEd> That's the debate ! edubuntu is not (all of) education and education is not (all of) edubuntu !
<willvdl> ogra, when you call them telecentres then the definition gets thinner
<ogra> hehe
<cbx33> I have a little tech news....I'm try to continue the develpoment work on gallium...the Kalzium replacement.  Amaranth did some fantastic work...I'm not trying to add new featuers ;)
<rodarvus> RichEd, no, not really
<ogra> right
<RichEd> Anyone else with technical updates ?
<RichEd> sorry cbx33 - go for it
<cbx33> Seveas: will usplash work with pngcrushed images?
<cbx33> RichEd: that was it ;)
<ogra> cbx33, first -> will pngcrush work with indexed images ?
<ogra> without destroying them 
<RichEd> Well I have one last semi-technical question myself ... more feature than technical, but closely related:
<Seveas> cbx33, the actual source packages don't use png but C code
<RichEd> How does someone see in one place what new features will be in the next release ... in a simple readble format ?
<ogra> well, lets try and error that usplash thing then :)
<ogra> RichEd, we do specs at the conference
<ogra> they are on launchpad
<jsgotangco> lp specs teehee
<ogra> approved specs should be implemented in order of priority
<RichEd> Yep. on launchpad, and then per version, and seeing what is approved.
<ogra> right
<ogra> whats not speeced doesnt usually get developed from us ...
<RichEd> Is there any way we could have a short bite size overview page ... like the bullet list on the side of a shrink wrap box ?
<rodarvus> RichEd, note that the process of defining which features are chosed/approved for the next version usually doesn't *really* starts until Edgy is basically closed
<ogra> but might become part of the source through a meger from a third party dev
<ogra> usually i'm subscribed to all edubuntu or ltsp related specs
<rodarvus> we can (and should) be working internally to have a draft plan earlier
<pips1> fyi https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs?searchtext=edubuntu
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs
<ogra> RichEd, ^^^
<RichEd> I know it is a moving target, but I am thinking on the PRO side ... for someone looking to see what is coming down the line.
<rodarvus> be right back
<willvdl> RichEd, that might be a spec for the launchpad developers
<ogra> rodarvus, btw, could you set fully-automatic-swap-server to deferred ? 
<RichEd> Not a hardcore techie, but say an education department decision maker who is comparing linux flavours for his decision for 2007
<RichEd> So he can see ... oh that is due out next year .... interesting.
<RichEd> So let me answer myself ... at the moment: No
<willvdl> and preferably referenced on the ubuntu site?
<ogra> next release 
<rodarvus> back
<rodarvus> ogra, sure, I'll do that
<ogra> RichEd, not next year
<ogra> rodarvus, thanks ...
<RichEd> But if somone was was willing to summarize the launchpad, yes. (and keep up to date say weekly)
<RichEd> Then yes ?
<ogra> the current workaround is neat ... but should really go into the c source some point ... vagrantc agreed to work on it later
<ogra> RichEd, as i said, we already do that via my spec page ... LP should always be up to date with the progress
<willvdl> ogra, RichEd is suggesting a simplified version for a non-techie audience
<ogra> mdz, keeps an eye on that during the distro-team meetings
<RichEd> Okay ... I'll check it all out and ask focused questions next meeting. Thanks.
<RichEd> --- technical --- any more ?
<ogra> RichEd, we can do a "upcoming specs" link on the website or wiki that points to my speclist i guess
<ogra> for a non techie way
<RichEd> last comment: some of the underlying ubuntu feature changes represent an advancement, but woulod not be on your list ?
<willvdl> I guess the ESA or handbook could contain such info
<ogra> RichEd, not for edubuntu ... we had some arguments with mdz about that in the beginning because of the release notes 
<cbx33> sorry guys, just had a phone call from Lisa, one of our guinea pigs is sick :(
<cbx33> I'm back now
<ogra> (we == JaneW and me)
<RichEd> Okay ... close the thread. I'll draft an appraoch with Will.
<RichEd> Tanks
<ogra> RichEd, edubuntu release notes should only list edubuntu specific features
<pips1> ogra: what about Edubuntu improvements that *aren't* done by you?
<ogra> pips1, these are fine to list
<ogra> we should just not duplicate ubuntu features in a feature list
<RichEd> ogra: but say (as a trivial example) Ubuntu handling a new type of wireless communication device, would mean Edubuntu would as well ?
<pips1> where do we find the comprehensive list of all edubuntu features then? in Launchpad, searching for 'Edubuntu' in the specifications (see link I posted above)?
<ogra> RichEd, yes
<RichEd> So for the classroom, it is a new feature if you ugrade to the newer Edubuntu
<ogra> yes
* RichEd notes that is is not so cut & dried as Edubuntu only
<ogra> ubuntu is our underlying system, so we inherit all improvements
<RichEd> and so do our users :)
<ogra> yeps
<RichEd> ---- ready for documentation ---- ???
<RichEd> anyone with input under documentation ?
<ogra> sbalneav is currently travelling, but he expressed extreme interest in ltsp and cookbook doccing in the future
<ogra> (at the hackfest)
<willvdl> I've been putting some ideas around for school advocacy, but not really pure documentation
<RichEd> willvdl: we'll do tech doc and then sales doc as next sub-section
<RichEd> ogra: have we got an LTSP doc champion as yet ?
<ogra> nope
<RichEd> I've been seeing some comments that the LTSP docs are lite - today in #edubuntu  for example
<ogra> nobody knows the code as good as me ... but i merged a lot docs from debian recently
<willvdl> Cool. Could someone explain what exactly the purpose/aim of the handbook is? i.e. who the target audience is and what they should get from it?
<jsgotangco> aren't those devel docs
<highvoltage> the ltsp documentation is a bit lite :/
<ogra> see /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/ in the recent packages for exmple
<highvoltage> would be real nice if scott could write some stuff :)
<RichEd> ogra ? confirm ... do we need developer documentation and user documenation or is that the same thing.
<ogra> there is a /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/qemu-ltsp for testing without thin client hardware available for example
<ogra> RichEd, developer docs should soon be covered by ltsp.org ...
<RichEd> (sorry by user I mean admin & install & support - not end user)
<ogra> if we are dne with the code merge with them, scottie will update the existing docs there
<ogra> ltsp.org has already enough docs ... they just dont apply to our implementation yet, but that will chage soon
<RichEd> Now just to clarify my understanding and then responsibility for Edubuntu vs Ubuntu:
<RichEd> LTSP is available for Ubuntu as an add on : right ?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> its on the CD
<ogra> but not installed by default
<ogra> edubuntu installs and configures it 
<RichEd> Does all LTSP dev on Ubuntu originate in Edubuntu and then go upstream ? Or are there Ubuntu LTSP people ?
<ogra> i am the ubuntu ltsp people
<ogra> :)
* cbx33 crowns ogra 
<ogra> i took over the code from matt ... as it is its orginating from ubuntu ...
<RichEd> So, say, as a vision future of the future ... LTSP is used by iCafe's and Call Centres and Medical Centres ... extensively
<ogra> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-convergence describes the future
<highvoltage> RichEd: LTSP in ubuntu/edubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu is a package that gets installed. this package comes from the same source across the ubuntu derivatives
<ogra> right
<RichEd> thanks highvoltage : got that now ... needed to confirm my understanding
<RichEd> Given the crystal ball : Would it still make sense that it LTSP remains an Edubuntu issue ?
<RichEd> 1) documentation
<RichEd> 2) support
<jsgotangco> good question
<ogra> no
<ogra> its an upstream issue ...
<jsgotangco> LTSP imo is Ubuntu's
<jsgotangco> err upstream rather
<RichEd> Should / Would the guy running the call centre network need to come to #edubuntu for help ?
<jsgotangco> no!
<jsgotangco> heavens no!
<ogra> no, but he could 
<willvdl> hmmm, who does a call centre call? :P
<highvoltage> RichEd: LTSP has wide support outside of edubuntu-specific. Xubuntu also has an LTSP install option, and many people use that too, we even use it in the tuxlabs.
* ogra needs to switch networks ... 
<RichEd> So, should we start to lay the ground for some movement of the docs and support upstream ? The hack-fest rsults may be an excellent kicking off point, and MV may bne the place to raise it ?
<RichEd> On the quid pro quo exchange : oliver passes over skill & training .... and they take some responsibility ?
<RichEd> And move oliver to 2nd line to reduce his already heavy burden ?
<ogra> the hackfest results are exactly that ;)
<ogra> its already clearified with upstream ...
<ogra> sbalneav wil take responsibility here ... with a little help from my side
<RichEd> But you mean upstream to sbalneav who is not ubuntu ...
<ogra> and as i said in the beginning he wants to contribute to the handbook as well
<cbx33> excellent
<ogra> sbalneav is upstrem for ltsp ;)
<ogra> *upstream
<ogra> together with jammcq
<ogra> but the muecow implementation (ours) puts the burden somewhat on the distros
<ogra> so i'm glad that sbalneav is aboard here 
<RichEd> Yep ... but I'm speaking about the iCafe inside the Call Centre inside the Medical Centre running Ubuntu LTSP .. we need to make a route from Ubuntu LTSP support to LTSP upstream direct
<RichEd> and not via #edubuntu :)
<RichEd> Okay ... that's enought for me to do some planning. T.thanks.
<ogra> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/MueKow
<ogra> well, i should probably open #ubuntu-ltsp 
<ogra> but for general stuff i couls also push people to #ltsp ... where i'm resident anyway
<cbx33> heh
<highvoltage> ogra: what would the difference be between #ubuntu-ltsp and #ltsp after convergence?
<ogra> if an edubuntu user has an ltsp prob he should still come to #edubuntu though
<ogra> highvoltage, it would take traffic off #ltsp 
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> the distro specific one ...
* RichEd reminds oliver you he is a mortal who will die from the smoking and work load if he does not take on less responsibility !
<ogra> but thats not a really good idea
<RichEd> #ubuntu-ltsp : we need this ... but it should not be another load for you !
<cbx33> RichEd: wow, there's a cheery out look ;)
<ogra> RichEd, support gives me a lot of user feedback
<ogra> its a part of the development process
<RichEd> olay well we should at least share the aod and get some ubuntu resouce to help.
<ogra> having more people to answer the general questions and FAQs would help a lot here 
<ogra> which is an educational problem 
<RichEd> great that's a start.
<RichEd> ------ Other documentation - technical ? ------ before we move to Will PRO docs
<ogra> we just need to get more ltsp users involved ... ;) they tend to be smart enough to pick up on the FQAs ;)
<ogra> *FAQs as well :)
<willvdl> and the forums?
<ogra> :)
<RichEd> damn ... sorry ... unexpected exit
<ogra> nice exit msg though :)
<RichEd> :) alt space and some keystrok shuts my xtak down ahen i type too fast
<cbx33> ogra: it is nice...the first time ;)
<ogra> heh
<RichEd> right will ... docs and brochures and case studies - please outline your process becuae more people are asking
<willvdl> Ah. OK.
<willvdl> Basically I want all PRO stuff to be cognisant of any developments that happen to edubuntu as a whole
<highvoltage> alt+space and then c closes windows in Gnome :) ... but xchat should warn you first i think :/
<willvdl> but essentially we have a framework for what is needed
<willvdl> the handbook, user docs and the school advocacy space
<ogra> right, and you will be in mountainview i guess, to take part in the spec process for edgy+1
<willvdl> Me?
<ogra> so you will know about the upcoming stuff for the future 
<ogra> not ?
<willvdl> nope. 
<ogra> oh
<ogra> ok
<willvdl> can always ask someone nicely to tell me :)
<ogra> well ... being part of it gives yu a lot more insight ...
<willvdl> true. anyhoo, if we keep the space dynamic then it can incorporate any changes that happen
<willvdl> structure being more important than content in this light
<highvoltage> willvdl: going there would also give you the chance to meet ogra and co, which would certainly be to your benefit in terms of working with them
<cbx33> sorry guys, I'm gonna have to go
<RichEd> highvoltage: will and I will be at all hands and so will ogra
<cbx33> I have too much to do here :(
<willvdl> ciao. I'll keep you posted on ESA
<ogra> highvoltage, "all hands" is a meeting later
<cbx33> thanks willvdl 
<pips1> willvdl: I didn't quite understand "Basically I want all PRO stuff to be cognisa of any developments that happen to edubuntu as a whole" What do you mean by "PRO"? And by "cognisant" do you mean 'aware' or 'responsible''
<highvoltage> ogra: aaah
<RichEd> (but it still may make sense for us to meet the broader dev community as well)
<RichEd> pips1: PRO publicity and markting = promotional material
<willvdl> Public Relations and "keep in mind"
<ogra> RichEd, well, they will all be there as well ...
<ogra> (at allhands)
<willvdl> ESA needs use cases or examples
<willvdl> which I hope to generate some examples
<pips1> RichEd willvdl thanks
<willvdl> before using the My Story channel like Ubuntu use cases
<willvdl> There's currently no real template but we can create a simple "this is what we need to know" list on the wiki
<juliux> i have some pictures from the edubuntu/ubuntu booths in germany
<juliux> if it helps
<willvdl> ESA (with use cases) should fall under the Ubuntu MArketing Team space
<willvdl> cool
<juliux> http://ubuntu.juliux.de/bilder/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=104
<pips1> willvdl: do you have an overview of channels available to ed/ubuntu for project/product promotion? maybe in the wiki somewhere?
<willvdl> since we don't have (or really need) Edubuntu marketing
<willvdl> not yet
<willvdl> but that brings me to the SpreadUbuntu drive
<willvdl> Currently Edubuntu hasn't been mentioned in that circle but it should
<RichEd> pips1: willvdl is gathering info speed and will merge into our education space ...
<willvdl> need suggestions on how to integrate with Spread Ubuntu
<RichEd> By the end of the weekend, I'll have a link for his branch
<RichEd> willvdl: explain spreadubuntu (while I explain some of the print costs realities) in background
<willvdl> pips1, we considered simply revamping the EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy on the wiki since it is superceded by the one on doc.ubuntu
<willvdl> spreadubuntu is an ubuntu community drive for ubuntu marketing like spreadfirefox
<willvdl> They want promotional info, DIY marketing materials etc. stories, the works
<willvdl> a nice home for all ubuntu marketing purposes
<willvdl> We will have our own DIY materials
<willvdl> and info
<RichEd> We are not always able to get head office to fund "education advertising expenses", so we can't create new initiatives and hope for approval. The Marketing Head is however creating a double sided case-study or brochure print format template for general Ubuntu material. We are tailoring our promotional info into this end format, and will argue that if Canonical is funding Ubuntu material, then we can joint the same print run.
<pips1> we = ?
<willvdl> canonical
<RichEd> we = me.
<RichEd> I have no budget, it is all a case by case request.
<willvdl> Have a look at the spreadubuntu thing and you'll see how they hope to self promote with DIY materials
<RichEd> If head office says no, I have no alternate route of funding.
<pips1> oh
<pips1> ic
<willvdl> The trick is to have targeted marketing stuff for all the key audiences
<pips1> agreed
<willvdl> - education departments in government
<willvdl> - to school sys-admins
<willvdl> - to home users
<RichEd> Note that as a single page double sided, each brochure will need to be specific tagert to each audience type. The brochure must then have a strong pull, and a hook back to the web site version, which can be longer and glossier and fuller.
<willvdl> - or any other solution space
<RichEd> So all of our key web docs must be able to be translated to a print-lite format. And all of the print-lite brochures must link back to some meat on the web.
<willvdl> cbx33 has offered to help with the brochure design etc
<willvdl> The info currently under school advocacy is sufficient 
<RichEd> cbx33 is the guinea pig for the Schools Advocacy to prove the model.
<willvdl> (as long as it tracks developments in edubuntu/ubuntu)
<RichEd> And willvdl : Juliux would like to discuss a requirement as test case #2
<pips1> re linking offline printed promotional materials with online website info: makes sense
<willvdl> we just need use cases and a brochure or two
<willvdl> to get started
<RichEd> Note also that we can format the stuff for local print as PDF in each territory for small runs for specific events
<juliux> willvdl, before we do all of this need good documentation in the internet
<juliux> willvdl, many people on expos are asking for documentation
<willvdl> agreed
<pips1> willvdl: I feel we need to clarify "audience" (people with a certain set of daily goals/tasks) vs. "solution space". What do you mean by the latter?
<RichEd> pips1: that's the exercise you and I are busy with 
<RichEd> :)
<pips1> right
<pips1> :)
<willvdl> meaning uses of edubuntu outside of education
<RichEd> I'm the link between you = community web space & will : print space
<RichEd> juliux: we can work from both ends ... the 2 page print format is good becuase it is very short amount of space to get the points across (2/3 column width of a page)
<juliux> RichEd, you mean 2 din a 4 pages?
<RichEd> It makes sure you focus the thinking and benefits and pish the value buttons of the particular user.
<juliux> RichEd, i think the ubuntu flyer has a very good size
<RichEd> A4, double sided. The page has a one third column space on the left for logos and addresses etc. so the space left allows for 2 or 3 line paragraphs and tight bullet points.
<pips1> RichEd: when you explicitly say *communty* web space... won't there be an "official" web space that need to link in with printed promo materials? or is the general idea that there *isn't* any promotional budget for ubuntu-education from canonical to speak of and we need to make most of community-driven marketing efforts? 
<RichEd> Unfortunately, we cannot influence the format (now) as we want to piggy back and say "if you are printing 10 000 ubuntu brochures, then we expect at least 1 000"
<willvdl> pips1, I think we should do it in the community driven marketing anyway
<willvdl> Hence getting a voice in spreadubuntu
<pips1> willvdl: ok, i se
<pips1> see
<RichEd> pips1: the same as the printed argument ... we need to make the community effort show some results, and then ask them to fund more of the same
<RichEd> if we ask for blue sky money ... then ther is skepticism
<pips1> ah
<pips1> yep, that's sabdfl :-)
<willvdl> basically, we hope to get a printed brochure from canonical as a matter of course
<willvdl> but can't expect to get everything form them
<RichEd> Note that we will make a big bang with our community efforts. As soon as we have some good web readable content (I mean coffee time news read) then I will be pushing for viral distribution.
<pips1> willvdl RichEd have you had any contact with community members of the spreadubuntu effort?
<willvdl> not yet
<willvdl> to be honest I only took a look at it this week
<RichEd> I am already making a lsit of education blogs and commentary sites, and will push updates to them on a weekly and then daily basis.
<pips1> yeah, things are happening all over the place, it is hard to keep up :-)
<pips1> RichEd: great!
<willvdl> but I reckon we should move all our stuff into ubuntu-marketing channels for a louder voice and healthier debate
<RichEd> There is not always much good quality news about open source and education ...so if we have the stories, the lazy journalists will be only too happy to make links.
<pips1> I noticed that a lot of community activity has started after the dapper release (marketing team, people outlining ideas in the wiki here and there, etc), but the activities would possibly benefit from more focus..?
<willvdl> yip
<willvdl> we could drive an good example to follow
<pips1> heh, you are saying slightly different things
<RichEd> So, if we have say 6 country local people given us an on the ground news update on their region every month, I'd expect that this would kick a story a week out into the general viral space. 
<pips1> willvdl: you want to leverage esixiting *ubuntu* efforts
<willvdl> yip. and make sure they include edubuntu in their plans and thinking
<pips1> RichEd: you see a niche/need for a unique education+opensource space
<RichEd> And then the story must get a click link back, and we need a high conversion factor of visits to subscribers / community sign-ups.
<pips1> hm
<RichEd> We need viral growth in our community base ... and it is starting ... I have seen a whole lot of new nicks in #edubuntu in the last week.
<pips1> yep
<RichEd> pips1: unique education+opensource space : not unique, but an ubuntu slant on the education space will piggy back on the ubuntu hype
<willvdl> Any comments/suggestions on ESA and use cases?
<RichEd> I did an online interview for a SA web mag 3 weeks back ... and the link popped up an a featured education blog on wordpress from the USA a week later.
<willvdl> is it in the fridge?
<RichEd> So I need to make this more process driven and harness it and not just accidental.
<pips1> willvdl: the problem that I currently see with "making ubuntu marketing aware of edubuntu" is that I feel that 'edubuntu' as 'ubuntu+ltsp+educationapps' is currently undergoing a lot of internal discussion amongst us, so how can we easily define edubuntu to the ubuntu-only community folks? and, is it wise to push edubuntu that much, if it will be undergoing a re-think?
<RichEd> Jono Bacon's blog is well known and widely read, so we need to get him to comment on us once a month.
<RichEd> All free ... just needs time.
<willvdl> pips1: exactly my concern
<willvdl> but
<RichEd> willvdl: yes, i'll google the link and mail you ... will hcek on its spread.
<willvdl> if we keep it simple, i.e. this is edubuntu, this is what it can do for you in education
<RichEd> pips1: noted 100% that is why matt nuzum and jono bacon are in the loop
<willvdl> here is a nice pamphlette on edubuntu as a product
<RichEd> we need to be good for them and them for us ...
<willvdl> it will be a good start
<RichEd> and the debate we are having will be a good blog topic for public ... where does open source education start and where does it end ?
<RichEd> education desktop ?
<highvoltage> why does it have to end :)
<RichEd> education classroom serve ?
<willvdl> No matter what happens with edubuntu/ltsp/ubuntu etc. our target audience still needs a product
<RichEd> education department server farm ?
<RichEd> government education department ?
<pips1> willvdl: re simple pamphlet as good start, ok. 
<RichEd> with the poser question: if your choice of open source distro does not work in ALL of these spaces, do you have the right distro ?
<pips1> hehe
<RichEd> who else can claim that ?
<pips1> RichEd: I don't think we *can* at the moment
<RichEd> [fedora classroom]  -> [redhat back end]  is not nearly as seamless as Edubuntu - Ubuntu ?
<pips1> but we might get there soon enough :-)
<willvdl> pips1, it's an opportunity we shouldn't miss
<pips1> sure
<RichEd> Note that it is a poser question, for personal blog ... not a company promise !
<RichEd> right we're over time ...
<RichEd> Any other pressing items ?
<pips1> yeah
<RichEd> Artwork ... cbx33 is not around ?
<willvdl> nope
<RichEd> I think we can close off then, as we have been doing the community stuff as links bwteen the other points ?
<willvdl> my brain hurts
<RichEd> Note how the meetings are getting much broader than Edununtu as a product !
<pips1> links between what? doc, promo and ?
<RichEd> This debate is really where the reality is ... not jsut producing the product, bnut getting people to understand and adopt.
<TeePOG> but RichEd, it has so many possibilities as a product, beyond the original scope
<willvdl> yeah but one must mange one's scope-creep
<RichEd> Yes ... and that means an opportunity for a rethink .. and improved appraoch.
<willvdl> manage rahter
<pips1> TeePOG: I think so too
<pips1> willvdl: you got a point 
<RichEd> I doubt that Ubuntu would have been loming at the same sort of fine grain issues thet we are examining ...
<RichEd> looking not loming
<TeePOG> on the other hand, willvdl, won't a scope-fork into a different product, result in duplication of effort and user confusion?
<RichEd> And as we unbundle the issues, it is a learning for all that we can share.
<willvdl> education is a sphere that the edubuntu community comes from and is good at
<RichEd> The fact that there is a new canonical web master and community manager who are all expecting a revision and change make thsi realistic.
<pips1> I realise that we have a feature freeze and developers are focussing on that right now, but I suggest that we need to get the "core" edubunteros involved in the discussion more! ahem. :-)
<RichEd> If we were asking the rest of the company to change when they were stable, we would have a problem being heard. It is a new phase fora ll, and we are at the right idea at the right time.
<RichEd> pips1: we will be opening up more and more of this debate in meetings and the wiki.
<pips1> right-y-ho
<willvdl> pips1, as soon as possible I'll get a space up in the wiki
<RichEd> Ubuntu developers conference is almost next month, and All Hands the week thereafeter ... so there is momentum for dicussion
<pips1> when exactly is this "All Hands" meeting
<pips1> ?
<willvdl> 11 november
<RichEd> pips1: MV week 2 & AH week 3 of novermber
<pips1> sounds like a deadline to me, then
<pips1> :-)
<RichEd> This weekend is the first deadline.
<RichEd> Then the end of the month.
<pips1> in what way?
<RichEd> To have a place to set targets & deadlines in public for the soft issues. For debate and information.
<pips1> ic
<RichEd> Okay .. I have to move on.
<RichEd> pips1: I'll have links up for you to explore tomorrow. Cleard my domestic calendar for the night to break the back of the wiki planning.
<pips1> same here
<pips1> great
<RichEd> thanks all
<willvdl> ciao all
<RichEd> going once
<RichEd> going twice
<RichEd> closed
<willvdl> three times a lady
<pips1> good discussion
<pips1> cu all
<willvdl> ciao
<RichEd> Just need to pin it down ... and tonight is the night.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Sep 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Sep 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council
<mdz> ogra: what's this bug regarding scp which you feel is critical?  please tell me the bug number
<ogra> mdz, its not filed
<ogra> (i can do so, but i even can add two lines to the script to just fix it)
<ogra> it should just die if LTSP_CLIENT isnt set in env
<mdz> what is "it"?
<ogra> the SCP client script is started from Xession.d 
<ogra> it should only run in LTSP sessions
<ogra> it wont do any harm to run it in a normal session though
<ogra> but its ugly 
<ogra> and a trivial fix
<mdz> oh, you're talking about student control panel, not secure copy
<ogra> heh, yes
<ogra> thats why i capitalize it :)
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 21 Sep 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Oct 12:00: Community Council
<Adri2000> @schedule paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council
<Burgwork> @now Vancouver
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Vancouver: September 20 2006, 10:33:12 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 21 hours 26 minutes
<Linuturk_code> @now New York
<Linuturk_code> :-/
<Adri2000> @now New_York
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/New_York: September 20 2006, 14:39:19 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 20 hours 20 minutes
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-21
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council
<Czubek> @schedule warsaw
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Warsaw: 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council
<Burgundavia> @now vancouver
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Vancouver: September 21 2006, 00:33:45 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 7 hours 26 minutes
<Czubek> @now warsaw
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Warsaw: September 21 2006, 09:34:01 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 7 hours 25 minutes
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 22 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Sep 06:00: Technical Board | 28 Sep 06:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Oct 03:00: Community Council
<Hobbsee> dev team is....1am, right.
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 21 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council
<tkamppeter> @schedule paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council
* sfllaw goes to shut the window.
<sfllaw> Man, it's getting cold here.
* pitti waves
<Linuturk_code> Are these meetings open to public comment?
<Linuturk_code> or are only designated developers allowed to speak?
<dholbach> Linuturk_code: we have a very tight schedule
<pitti> Linuturk_code: in principle, yes, but not meant for long discussions
<dholbach> Linuturk_code: it's mostly a status update meeting
<mdz> morning
<Linuturk_code> dholbach pitti: Ok, I understand. I wouldn't be banned for a short, productive comment. Excessive commenting is frowned upon. Correct?
<imbrandon> moins mdz dholbach 
<zul> morning
<pitti> Linuturk_code: right
<imbrandon> Linuturk_code: mosty yes ( timing is also important ;P )
<fschoep> Good evening everyone
<Linuturk_code> Understood
<imbrandon> Linuturk_code: these meetings tend to be short and to the point becouse there is soooo much to cover from so many people
<BenC> mdz: ping
<mdz> pong
<BenC> err,pong, or "here", whichever :)
<zul> heh..present also works
<Linuturk_code> imbrandon, well, i doubt I'll have anything productive to say anyway, but I wanted to make sure of the ground rules. I'm just a humble fluxbuntu dev, so I wanted to see how the big boys play :)
<zul> hey jeff
<fabbione> re
<sfllaw> jbailey: Welcome.
<jbailey> Hey'all.
<fabbione> mdz: i need a few more minutes to write my report.
<mdz> Kamion, seb128, mvo, doko, Mithrandir, Riddell, ogra: ping
<fabbione> mdz: i just managed to get one laptop up and running
<Mithrandir> pong
<ogra> pong
<seb128> mdz: pong
<Riddell> hi mdz 
<mvo> hello
<zul> hi mdz
<kwwii> hi 
<pitti> hi kwwii 
<Riddell> Linuturk_code: yes
<mdz> Kamion, doko_: reping
<doko_> pong
<mdz> ok, good afternoon everyone, let's begin
<mdz> pitti: will you start us off?
* fabbione is ready too
<pitti> sure
<pitti> Done:
<pitti>  * security updates: Thunderbird/dapper, Thunderbird + all reverse dependencies for breezy, Firefox/dapper (needs final approval from mdz), gzip, kernel
<pitti>  * apt-get-debug-symbols: buildd side done by infinity, people.u.c. side done by me, announced to u-d-a, enjoy!
<pitti>  * bug fixing in various packages (mainly apport, hal, gnome-volume-manager, some FTBFS, some dapper updates)
<pitti>  * intro meeting with keescook
<pitti>  * heavy Knot-3 CD testing
<pitti>  * finished last bits of gnutls12->13 transition, gnutls12 in universe now
<pitti>  * managed to stay on top of the bug wave
<pitti> Todo:
<pitti>  * fix langpack-o-matic infrastructure to work with new SRU policy (upload staging in *-proposed), urgently need to update dapper langpacks (also to fix some serious bugs)
<pitti>  * Beta testing
<pitti>  * care for mysql merge if infinity's workload is too high
<pitti>  * improve apport-retrace script to make use of new ddeb archive
<pitti>  * bug fixing, to the extent possible by freezes
<pitti> mdz: btw, ffox 1.5.0.7 is prepared for dapper release; do you want to discuss that or shall I just go ahead?
<mdz> pitti: I thought we already discussed it, if I'm confused then we should review it again
<pitti> mdz: well, I never got a formal 'ok', that's why I'm asking
<pitti> (just the ok for thunderbird)
<mdz> pitti: ok, let's follow up by email
<pitti> alright
<mdz> pitti: is there anything on your list which should be on the beta todo list?
* pitti notes that he set his last spec to 'implemented' today :)
<sbalneav> Hello
<mdz> for reference, since it will come up many times during the meeting, it is at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.10-beta
<pitti> mdz: nothing is terribly urgent, no
<mdz> you can nominate any bug for that list by setting the milestone, but make sure the importance is set appropriately
<pitti> in general, I do think we should fix the ubuntu-meta behaviour
<mdz> pitti: which behaviour?
<pitti> ok, I'll check my bugs for good candidates, but I squashed most of the appropriate ones already
<pitti> mdz: removing any u-desktop dependency marks all other u-desktop packages for auto-removal
<pitti> unlike in previous releases
<imbrandon> ( *-desktop )
<mdz> hmm, is that because the metapackage is used to install the livefs?
<pitti> e. g. I can't even uninstall bug-buddy without apt wanting to kill my  entire system
<mdz> rather than the task?
<pitti> I didn't look into it so far, but I think so
<mdz> pitti: open a bug, set the milestone to beta and let's talk with mvo about it
<mvo> mdz: the current apt has native tasks support
<pitti> mdz: alright
<mdz> should be a trivial change to the livefs build script
<mdz> pitti: thanks
<mvo> mdz: its a matter of modifing the livefs build script
<mdz> mvo: :-)
<mdz> mvo: next
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - bug triage
<mvo> - added native tasks support into apt-get to make livefs build easier (apt-get install taskname^)
<mvo> - improved the synaptic/apt support for automatic dependency display/manipulation
<mvo> - knot3 cd testing
<mvo> - bugfixing (apt, pango, gtk-im-libthai, g-a-i, vmware-player-kernel/dapper-security, update-manager, python-apt, python-central, python-defaults, anacron, bash, gnome-system-tools GST_NO_NTP)
<mvo> - ddtp updates
<mvo> - added a wikipage about automatic dependency removal and added it to ubuntu weekly news
<mvo> - some work on the non-interactive dist-upgrader, some upgrade testing
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - more testing/bugfixing in the beta release
<mvo> - update the gnome-app-install desktop files/icons
<mvo> - investigate what to do with the dist-upgrader and early upgrading of apt (fot the breaks field). this was  blocked last week by not working dapper-backports
<mvo> - user notification for non-free video drivers (these are bad m'kay)
<mvo> - look into scim/xim mess (scim-chewing in edgy/dapper) and (maybe) create a ubuntu-l10n mailinglist for developer discussion about l10n/input-methods/font issues
<mvo> - get apache logs to find duplicated HOSTIDs and forcefully reconfigure those *or* remove all old HOSTIDs data from popcon.ubuntu.com and upload new popcon that force reconfigure for all older versions to get a new HOSTID. this means we won't have valid data for a couple of days though
<mdz> mvo: are we able to do ddtp translation using rosetta yet, and if not, is there a spec registered for it?
<Kamion> here, sorry I'm late, just got back from the school run
<mvo> mdz: rosetta has them, but its still manual in a lot of steps
<mvo> partial because rosetta does not provide the needed api 
<mvo> partial because I haven't written more scripts to automate import/export yet
<mvo> and there is some bugfixing to be done in the current scripts that deal with this
<mvo> (my scripts)
<mdz> mvo: ok
<mdz> mvo: do you have anything for the beta todo list? 
<mvo> mdz: I don't think so, there may be stuff coming up though :) I would like to update the g-a-i desktop database
<mdz> mvo: that seems like something which should go on the milestone checklist
<mvo> mdz: does that mean I should add a bug for it and add it to the beta-milestone?
<mvo> mdz: the dist-upgrader is very high priority now
<mdz> mvo: no, talk with Mithrandir about adding it to the process checklist
<mvo> because the current breaks in the archive break the upgrader :(
<mdz> mvo: hmm, is dist-upgrader not ready for upgrades to beta?
<mdz> mvo: ok, that's important.  please open a bug and set the milestone so it appears on the list
<mvo> mdz: not for packages with breaks, no
<mvo> ok
<mvo> will do
<iwj> mvo: Is there anything I can do to help with the upgrader ?
<iwj> I'm worried that this is starting to get rather late ...
<mvo> iwj: possible, lets talk off-meeting
<mdz> ok, thanks mvo
<mdz> Kamion: next
<iwj> mvo: OK
<Kamion> Done:
<Kamion>   recommends-support: germinate backport for dapper-updates, needed on drescher.
<Kamion>   ubiquity: Trimmed about 150-200 off the bug list by means of rejections and duplications, fixed some common issues (including back/forward flow between gparted and the mountpoints page, yay), and started categorising the most common remaining bugs.
<Kamion>   milestone-rhythm: Made the daily CD health checks not mail the release team quite so many times.
<Kamion> To do:
<Kamion>   usplash: Still need to handle tasksel enhancements to make resolution detection on fresh (d-i) install work properly. This will bite people who install the beta and then upgrade to Edgy, so is it beta-critical?
<Kamion>   misc: Other beta-critical bugs (mostly loose ends of console-setup integration; estimate a good day's work for these). Rename server to minimal (?) on the alternate CDs, and hoover up any other relevant ubunt
<Kamion> u-cdimage bugs.
<Kamion>   ubiquity: I have two large classes of crashes still to deal with, tagged gtk-mainloop-crash and invalid-literal-for-int in Malone; need to figure out whether these are in fact duplicates, or whether there are multiple causes. Also want to deal with reserved usernames. All this is probably post-beta now.
<mdz> Kamion: people who install the beta [from the alternate cd]  and then upgrade?
<Riddell> Kamion: did abattoir contact you about oem-config-kde not not having to use metacity?
<mdz> how does tasksel relate to resolution detection?
<Kamion> mdz: usplash is installed before xserver-xorg, so can't fetch the mode from xorg.conf
<mdz> Kamion: is the ubiquity keyboard layout issue from knot 3 now fixed?
<Kamion> mdz: we need to fudge tasksel around a bit to make that not happen
<mdz> Kamion: how will that bite those who upgrade; won't usplash fix that up on upgrade?
<Kamion> Riddell: yes, and I rearranged the code so he could slot in use of kwin or whatever, although I don't think I've seen a patch from him yet that does that
<Kamion> mdz: usplash doesn't / IMHO shouldn't change an existing usplash.conf on upgrade
<Kamion> mdz: sorry, which ubiquity keyboard layout issue?
<mdz> Kamion: I lit the batsignal for gtk help and jdahlin came by; he might be able to help with the other issues as well
<mdz> Kamion:   * The desktop CD installer does not guess non-US keyboard layouts
<mdz>     correctly.  This merely requires one to select the correct
<mdz>     keyboard layout when using the desktop CD installer.
<Kamion> I don't think so, but I'll check; thanks for the reminder
<mdz> ok, thanks
<mdz> dholbach: next
<dholbach> Done
<dholbach>     * finished functional version of the art-builder
<dholbach>     * pilot updates into Ubuntu
<dholbach>     * small fixes
<dholbach>     * telepathy packaging, reviewing, mentoring - we might quite some progress: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Telepathy/Modules
<dholbach> To do
<dholbach>     * catch up with bug triage, or suffer from Sb of Doom
<dholbach>     * human-icon-theme update (added icons)
<dholbach>     * CD testing
<dholbach>     * investigate in gnome-bluetooth/gnome-phone-manager/libbtctl updates
<dholbach>     * revu-ing for Universe Freeze
<dholbach>     * apt-get.org
<mdz> dholbach: art-builder is deployed?  or not quite yet?
<mvo> dholbach: I'm happy to help with the apt-get.org auto-test-build script
<dholbach> not deployed yet, will do so asap and talk with Frank about it
<dholbach> mvo: thanks a lot - I just didn't get around yet to debug it
* dholbach hugs mvo
<fschoep> dholbach: looking forward to it
<mdz> dholbach: is there anything in desktop-land which should be on the beta list?
<mdz> besides the g-s-d bug I added already
<dholbach> In my bug catchup frenzy, I'll be sure to mark bugs as beta milestones
<mdz> dholbach: ok, review existing higher-severity bugs as well and see if anything should be added there
* mvo hugs dholbach
<mdz> dholbach: thanks
<dholbach> mdz: alright
<mdz> seb128: next
<seb128> Done:
<seb128> - load and load of bug triage, replied to most of new desktop bugs and took my backlog from around 370 to 240
<seb128> - some desktopish updates
<seb128> - some updates and fixes for gnome-java packages
<seb128> - started fixing desktop bugs for edgy beta
<seb128> Todo:
<seb128> - keep fighting bugs flood
<seb128> - fixing desktop bugs
<seb128> - beta CD testing
<mdz> seb128: did the upstream forwarding push help with the bug flood at all?
<seb128> what upstream forwarding push?
<seb128> we do forward them all the time ;)
<mvo> lol
<seb128> there was no push though
<mdz> seb128: we had a bug day where the theme was to get folks to help with upstream forwarding
<seb128> yeah, and I didn't notice a real difference compared to any other day to be honest
<dholbach> that was 2 weeks ago or something
<mdz> yes, and the idea was that more people would then know how to forward bugs and would keep doing it :-)
<seb128> dholbach and I and some usual triager did put some extra efforts
<seb128> but not of new people or other guys did participate
<seb128> yeah
<mdz> sfllaw: is there info on the appropriate wiki pages with links to the needs-to-be-forwarded list?
<seb128> we would need somebody pushing for that
<dholbach> it's on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bugs and I mailed that link to some mailing lists including ubuntu-bugsquad@
<sfllaw> mdz: I'm writing documentation now on the new Bugs/HowToTriage page.
<seb128> nobody is spending time on the mater atm
<mdz> sfllaw: after the meeting please, but thanks ;-)
<mdz> seb128: it is a priority for sfllaw
<seb128> I'm happy to read that
<seb128> :)
<mdz> ok
* sfllaw hugs seb128.
<mdz> thanks seb128
<mdz> tkamppeter: next
<mdz> tkamppeter: did you talk with pitti about the meeting format?
* seb128 hugs sfllaw
<pitti> no
<tkamppeter> This is the first meeting in which I participate, as I have started at Ubuntu in the beginning of this month.
<tkamppeter> Done:
<tkamppeter> - Installed Edgy as dual-boot with on my laptop and reported first bug
<ogra> tkamppeter, which we all appreciate ;)
<fabbione> only one?
<fabbione> that sounds cool ;)
<imbrandon> ;)
<Kamion> (we normally write up our done/todo items in advance so that we can just paste them; it saves time)
<tkamppeter> - Looked throught the printing-related bugs (subscribed to ubuntu-printing-team)
<tkamppeter> - Answered to many bugs to get info from the posters
<pitti> we did some packaging tutoring ping-pong, worked pretty well for the merges
<tkamppeter> fabbione, I have found another one today
<pitti> tkamppeter: bug traige -> #ubuntu-devel, please
<tkamppeter> - Done my first Debian/Ubuntu package: Gutenprint 5.0.0 final, thanks to pitti to introduce me into the methods of Ubuntu packaging!!
<pitti> you're welcome, glad to see a printing guru stirring up edgy ;)
<Riddell> tkamppeter: apparantly there's some issues with KDE printing, which will be a post-beta priority, any help appreciated
<tkamppeter> pitti, what do you mean with "bug traige -> #ubuntu-devel, please"?
<pitti> tkamppeter: I thought you wanted to talk about bugs, that's #u-devel stuff; sorry, that wasn't the case apparently
<tkamppeter> Riddell, subscribe bugs to the printing team,
<Riddell> tkamppeter: will do
<tkamppeter> and one KDE/CUPS 1.2 issue is well-known.
<tkamppeter> Riddell, I will tell you about this issue later.
<ogra> tkamppeter, i plan some improvements for ltsp printing in edgy+1 and would like to talk with you about it in mountain view ... (just as notification)
<mdz> tkamppeter: the text is prepared in advance to save time because the meeting is large.  if you could email me after the meeting and prepare next time, that is fine
<mdz> instead we will just welcome you this time :-)
<mdz> tkamppeter, for those who have not noticed, is helping us with printing support in Ubuntu
<mdz> tkamppeter: so welcome :-)
<mdz> sfllaw: next
<mdz> sfllaw: ping?
<sfllaw> Done:
<sfllaw>  * Writing Wiki documentation
<sfllaw>  * Bug triage
<sfllaw> To do:
<sfllaw>  * Bug triage
* pitti hugs tkamppeter 
<sfllaw>  * Writing Wiki documentation
<sfllaw>  * Hug day
<sfllaw>  * Buy a new laptop (the old one died)
<mdz> tkamppeter: please collect your text and send it to me via email, we have moved on
<mdz> sfllaw must be having connectivity issues
<mdz> Riddell: next
<sfllaw> Hullo?
<sfllaw> Can you hear me?
<ogra> heh
<nixternal> haha
<mdz> Riddell: your update please
<ogra> sfllaw, no
<Riddell> I can see sfllaw 
<Kamion> mdz: I can see sfllaw speaking
<sfllaw> It must be a NetSplit.
<mdz> sfllaw: * Ping reply from sfllaw: 162.49 second(s) :-)
<fabbione> mdz: so can i
<tkamppeter> - Checked through the actual versions of Ubuntu packages and the bugs, a lot is too old, therefore asked for UVF ERs on: foomatic-filters, foomatic-db, foomatic-hpijs, HPLIP, Gutenprint, foo2zjs
<kwwii> as can I
<Mithrandir> I guess it's mdz having problems with his net. :-P
<mdz> what a mess
<tkamppeter> - (All but foo2zjs already approved)
<BenC> lol, for once I'm not the one with the major lag :)
* fabbione ^5 BenC 
<mdz> it seems like lag between the server I'm connected to (and some others) and everyone else
<mdz> am I caught up now?
<fabbione> * Ping reply from mdz: ? second(s)
<Keybuk> * Ping reply from mdz: 0.35 second(s)
<seb128> --- Ping reply from mdz : 0.98 second(s)
<Kamion> 16:37 [Freenode]  CTCP PING reply from mdz: 0.480 seconds
<shenki> mdz: yes, you're caught up now
<mdz> ok
<mdz> sfllaw: anything on the broader bug radar which should be raised for the beta?
<mdz> sfllaw: which wiki documentation did you write in the past week?
<sfllaw> Mmm.  Not really.  There are really only minor issues.
<sfllaw> I'm refactoring the BugSquad pages, so that it's easier to find info on getting involved.
<sfllaw> Documenting our processes and such.
* pitti took the freedom to augment the worse bugs from Testing/Current with a beta milestone flag
<sfllaw> This should make it faster for new BugSquad volunteers to get up to speed, and also make it easier for people to join Ubuntu QA.
<mdz> sfllaw: ok, especially in the time leading up to beta, we need your eyes to pick out any serious issues we need to be aware of for the beta
<mdz> sfllaw: so make sure you are keeping up with bug triage during this critical time
<sfllaw> Right.
<sfllaw> When are we getting those version fields in Malone?
<sfllaw> ;)
* mvo will investigate two "does not book up at all" regressions tomorrow from friends
<Keybuk> sfllaw: edgy+7
<mdz> sfllaw: LP1.0 + N
<sfllaw> :(
<mdz> sfllaw: we must work with what we have today
<sfllaw> Fair enough.
<seb128> mvo: what book? ;)
<mdz> sfllaw: thanks
<mdz> Riddell: next
* mvo slaps seb128
<Riddell> done: lots of bugfixing
<Riddell>       kde ubiquity scrollview
<Riddell>       fix various issues with .pot generation for rosetta
<Riddell>       discussion with jono
<Riddell> blocked: ruby on ppc, can recreate failure on davis but probably needs someone more familiar with it to fix
<Riddell> todo: investigate Usplash art missing in Kubuntu and test dapper->edgy upgrade generally
<Riddell>       package kubuntu-docs
<Riddell>       KDE conference from friday evening to tuesday.
<Riddell>       Beta release
<Riddell> note: kde 3.5.5 and koffice 1.6 both scheduled for early october
<Kamion> missing usplash> isn't that just misconfigured resolution, as above?
<mdz> Riddell: how did kubuntu knot 3 turn out?  any bugs which should go on the beta list?
<Kamion> or is it something more complex?
<mdz> Riddell: someone more familiar with ruby, or with ppc?
<Riddell> mdz: pretty well, main problems all fixed
<pitti> shall we consider amd64/nvidia usplash failure as a high-importancy bug which deserves rollback to vga on amd64?
<Riddell> mdz: usplash seems to work on new installs, but there's that bug for dapper upgrades I need to look at
<mdz> pitti: I thought mjg59 said that was fixed
<Riddell> mdz: both?
<mdz> Riddell: martin pool admitted to knowing ruby; you know who the ppc fetishists are in the house
<pitti> mdz: not fully as it seems, today I heard several more confirmations in IRC, and it's still happening for a friend of mine and me (i. e. all amd64/nvidia guys I know)
<mdz> Riddell: have you asked one of them for help?
<Riddell> mdz: not recently, I can poke them again
<Kamion> rolling back to VGA will be pretty hard, requires complicated theme changes too
<Kamion> I think we're quite deeply committed
<mdz> who will help Riddell with this issue?  it's been blocking for weeks now
<pitti> humm
<mdz> Kamion: mjg59 gave the impression it could fall back gracefully
<Kamion> mdz: not until somebody teaches usplash to build in both bogl and svga backends into a single binary
<BenC> if there's any ppc usplash help needed, I volunteer
<mvo> pitti: I have a amd64/nvidia test-machine, happy to give it a go 
<mdz> Kamion: gah...I thought bogl talked to svgalib
<Kamion> unless svgalib can do vga too
<Kamion> mdz: no, separate backend
<Kamion> s
<Mithrandir> Kamion: that should be doable, shouldn't it?
<Kamion> at the moment they share function names - There Can Be Only One
<Kamion> Mithrandir: doable, sure, but not done
<mdz> Kamion: garrrr
<Mithrandir> if it's a blocker for beta, I can do it.
<Kamion> we really really need the existing themes to provide 640x400 and/or 640x480 images
* BenC has done framebuffer+svga work
<BenC> feel free to bug me
<Kamion> fschoep,kwwii: ^--
<mdz> BenC: would you help Riddell get ruby/ppc building?
<kwwii> Kamion: will do
<fschoep> Sure
<BenC> ruby?
<Kamion> thanks
<BenC> hrmm, I can try
<kwwii> Kamion:  have one, but I did not include it :p
<mdz> BenC: afaik usplash/ppc is happy now, but more testing is always good
<mdz> BenC: yes, ruby...it's failing to build on ppc only
<BenC> ok, I can do that
<mdz> thank you
<Kamion> kwwii: it's particularly obvious since 640x480 is the current default on all alternate CD installs
<Riddell> BenC: on 64 bit kernel ppc only to be specific
<mdz> Riddell: you leave for the conf after the beta release, yes?
<Kamion> and we may have to fall back to 640x400 on amd64/nvidia, see above
<Kamion> that would be 640x400x8 in fact
<Riddell> mdz: before, I leave tomorrow evening
<mdz> Riddell: sorry, you leave tomorrow and come back early next week?
<BenC> Riddell: it fails to build only on 64-bit kernel, 32-bit userspace?
<Riddell> mdz: yes
<Kamion> or whatever the old usplash resolution was
<Keybuk> Kamion: x8 or x4 ?
<Riddell> BenC: yes
<Kamion> x4 I guess
<BenC> Riddell: should be easy, I have a G5 I can test out
<mdz> Riddell: ok, make sure you review your bug list tomorrow and add any beta blockers to the list
<Riddell> mdz: ok
<mdz> Riddell: if there isn't a bug filed for this ruby issue, file one and mark it for the beta
<Mithrandir> Riddell,BenC: can you take the ruby/ppc discussion later/in #u-d?
<BenC> sure
<jbailey> BenC: Poke me for other testing on G5, too.
<mdz> pitti: let's discuss about usplash/nvidia/amd64 after the meeting, I'm not up to date on the issues there
<mdz> Riddell: thanks
<BenC> jbailey: thanks
<mdz> Mithrandir: next
<Mithrandir> * misc: released knot 3, fixed a bunch of casper bugs.  Working on some X bugs.
<Mithrandir> * next week: preparations for beta, mainly X and casper stuff, help Henrik get online from his new home.
* mdz watches the beta milestone page grow during the meeting...;-)
<Mithrandir> (Henrik called me a few hours ago and needed a bit of help to get his DSL running so I'll bike out there tomorrow)
<mdz> Mithrandir: how close do you think knot 3 was to beta quality?
<mdz> Mithrandir: is the other known issue (mono and launchpad-integration?) fixed?
<Mithrandir> mdz: not fixed, but I think I have a fix.
<Mithrandir> mdz: beta quality> getting there, but not there.
<ogra> for edubuntu it was far from beta quality ... tomorrows iso should be though
<mdz> is openoffice installable yet?
<Mithrandir> too many small things all over the place which need small adjustments.
<Mithrandir> I don't think so.
<Keybuk> has it even built yet?
<ogra> there was an upload ...
<mdz> Keybuk: it built, but was rejected
<Keybuk> mdz: several built
<mdz> there's an email in my inbox about it which I have only skimmed
<Keybuk> and in fact, are still building
<Kamion> there's another upload which should get past the binary reject it hit
<Keybuk> doko nicely DoS'd the buildds by queuing multiple openoffices
<Kamion> but obviously it will take some time
<doko_> they are building again, yes Keybuk, I know, but I don't have private buildd's
<mdz> oo.o+oo.o-l10n is unavoidable
<ogra> more buildd power !
<Keybuk> doko_: <g>
<mdz> and those builds are needed to unblock CD production
<Keybuk> throw more kittens onto the fire!
<ogra> or dedicated ooo buildds :)
<Kamion> cprov volunteered another i386 buildd from the dogfood farm
* mdz shovels more coal into the buildds
<dholbach> give doko bigger machines - he has enough space at home ;)
<mdz> Mithrandir: do you have a list of those small things all over the place?
<Kamion> if that's desirable, somebody who can say yes please should talk to him :)
<doko_> just a multi cpu machine or two would help for the i386 buildd's
<Mithrandir> mdz: no, sorry, it was more of a general feeling.
<mdz> Mithrandir: it's probably about time to create a wiki page for the beta with a link to the ubuntu-6.10-milestone page + all the bits and bobs which don't deserve full bug reports
<Mithrandir> mdz: I'll look into that.
<mdz> Mithrandir: ok, thanks
<mdz> Mithrandir: oh, are the stacked livefs builds all happy now?
<seb128> mdz: what sort of bugs should be listed for beta
<mdz> seb128: bugs which would make the beta suck ;-)
<Mithrandir> mdz: I don't think so, I haven't seen any stacks at least.  Need to poke infinity about that.
<mdz> Mithrandir: aarrgghh
<seb128> mdz: bugs like "gnome-vfs2 lists fstab devices twice because it doesn't understand the UUID= change" a beta candidate by example?
<seb128> I listed them for edgy atm
<mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
<mdz> ogra: next
<ogra> * last-week:
<ogra>  - knot3 testing (as good as i could before takeoff)
<ogra>  - detriot ltsp hackfest:
<ogra>    things fixed there: 
<ogra>      - xdmcp handling
<ogra>      - printer handling
<ogra>      - etherboot support out of the box (thanks jammcq)
<ogra>      - network swap support
<ogra>      - rdesktop handling (not in edgy, but we have a fix for edgy+1 to fully support that (thanks Gadi))
<mdz> seb128: if it's very noticeable, yes
<ogra>      - floppy handling and localdev improvenemts (thanks sbalneav)
<ogra>      - X bugs with via driver
<seb128> mdz: ok
<ogra>      - upstream packaging training ... ltspfs upstream is maintained completely in LP now, 
<ogra>        ubuntu packaging is done in a separate branch by upstream as well
<ogra>        (https://launchpad.net/people/sbalneav/+branch/ltspfs/ltspfs-upstream)
<ogra>      - ltsp minimal ram requirements are 32MB now for thin clients, that gives many users that were 
<ogra>        holding back the opportunity to switch to our implementation ! :)
<mdz> seb128: just set importance appropriately; we'll focus on the most important bugs
<ogra>      - we worked out an upstream roadmap for further ltsp development see http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp_roadmap.txt
<ogra> --
<ogra>  - ltsp-convergence: all prerequisites fulfilled now, merge of ltsp.org started
<ogra>  - fixed edubuntu-artwork
<ogra>  - fixed remaining known ltsp bugs
<ogra>  - fixed a nasty esd regression in ltsp that prevented the second user from having sound on thin clients
<ogra>  - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs - still need meeting with infinity ... starts to become urgent, will try to catch him asap if he returns
<ogra> * next-week:
<ogra>  - find remaining bugs in ltsp
<mdz> ogra: the ltsp hackfest seemed both extremely productive and extremely entertaining
<ogra>  - prepare the isos for beta release
<ogra>  - known edubuntu RC bugs that need fixage so far:
<ogra>    - bug 61688 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61688 in lsb "[Edgy]  "unbound variable" in /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61688
<ogra>      - apparently the portmap postinst is doing an rpcinfo -p in the postinst that takes ages to complete.
<ogra>        since thats only used to echo the portmap driven services in an info message to the cli
<ogra>        i think we can just drop that line completely from our package
<ogra>    - bug 61681
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61681 in ubuntu-cdimage "the preseed option for static devices in netcfg for edubuntu can go" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61681
<ogra>      - postinst change for edubuntu d-i, we dont need to default to a static IP for the first interface anymore (one line fix)
<ogra> mdz, oh, i forgot the initramfs issue you mailed me about ... need to fix that as well ...
<ogra> yeah, it was
<ogra> upps
<mdz> ogra: what changes were made to get down to 32M?
<ogra> that was bug 61668
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61668 in portmap "Building LTSP chroot stops during portmap installation" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61668
<ogra> mdz, automatic nbd swap
<ogra> even its not our desired fully-automatic-swapserver it is fine for a start 
<Kamion> ogra: yeah, I'll hoover up that ubuntu-cdimage bug in my general pass, it's easy
<mdz> ogra: congratulations on the milestone of ltsp-convergence, that's a great achievement for ubuntu
<ogra> (thats why the spec is set to deferred, vagrantc and me will care fir it in edgy+1)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> redhat is the first adopter
<ogra> and warren even agreed to maintain everything in launchpad *g*
<mdz> looking forward to the writeup on that
<ogra> right, i wanted to do it yesterday, but somehow had no opportunity to sleep at all, to many bugs to fix before the freeze
<fabbione> ogra: don't be so surprised.. there are more RH developers using ubuntu and lp that you can think of
<mdz> ogra: 61688 doesn't have its milestone set; please set it if you consider it a blocker
<mdz> and Importance as well
<ogra> ok
<Kamion> I'll look at 61688 straight after the meeting
<mdz> ogra: thanks
<ogra> jammcq_laptop and sbalneav started switching to ubuntu ltsp everywhere btw
<mdz> fschoep: next
<fschoep> Done:
<fschoep>  * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: contact Dave, now waiting for initial batch of icons
<fschoep>  * firefox-themes-ubuntu: fix bugs (consider switching to Epiphany)
<fschoep>  * looked into some other bugs
<fschoep> Ongoing:
<fschoep>  * usplash-artwork: work with Seveas and msikma to get a new design in
<fschoep>  * community-artwork: conference call with jmak and sabdfl tomorrow
<fschoep>  * art-polish-human-gtk-theme: decide on color tweaks based on artwork direction
<fschoep>  * sound-themes: got in touch with cbx33, will work on shortening sounds
<fschoep>  * theme-teams: (try to) package their work
<mdz> fschoep: switching to epiphany -> that is so not funny :-)
<fschoep> mdz: no comment :)
<Keybuk> mdz: it'd solve potential trademark issues
<Riddell> fschoep: the text on the current ubuntu wallpaper needs moved up, it's covered by the panel
<ogra> fabbione, but not RH employees that use it for distro work (yet at least) 
<fschoep> Riddell: thanks for spotting it
<dholbach> xulrunner+epiphany! yay! :)
<fabbione> ogra: yup.. those too :)
<ogra> oi
<fschoep> Riddell: I am trying to get it right ;)
<fschoep> But this does bring up an important issue
<ogra> dholbach++
<mdz> fschoep: sounds like there is s till a lot of artwork churn.  is there anything absolutely urgent which might justify an exception for the beta freeze?
<fschoep> mdz: yes, everything I think (not the right answer?)
<fschoep> mdz: I'm on the phone with Mark tomorrow
<mdz> fschoep: no, not the right answer
<fschoep> mdz: We'll pretty much have to rip out what's in there currently and create new stuff
<dholbach> mdz: I'll upload a human icon theme soon-ish (some added icons)
<mdz> fschoep: if the artwork isn't final, we'll deal with that, but we can't have it changing as we're preparing the release
* Keybuk blinks at fschoep
<mdz> fschoep: please send me an email after the call with the outcome
<fschoep> mdz: We (I) tried the community approach and it kind of blew up in my face
<mdz> fschoep: actually, scratch that.  send me the info for the call and I'll dial in
<fschoep> mdz: OK, I'll try to get that arranged with Claire
<mdz> fschoep: thanks
<mdz> and argh
<mdz> kwwii: next
<kwwii> Done: 
<kwwii> made different usplash aniimation ideas...in the end decided this is something for the future
<mdz> kwwii: I hope you have good news ;-)
<fschoep> Keybuk: morituri te salutant ;)
<kwwii> Made new window deco buttons, gradient for window deco, wallpaper, amarok theme, metabar theme, color tweaking in kde and the window deco, new panel background.
<kwwii> new themeing elements in place. All in all we are very close to final
<kwwii> Todo: 
<kwwii> akademy next week
<kwwii> finish usplash (reduce the size/form of the logo, tweak progress bar graphics) 640x480!!
<kwwii> about, app start, help page?
<kwwii> throbber for konqueror?
<kwwii> keep polishing where and when necessary
<mdz> kwwii: any final touches for beta should go in tomorrow; it's likely that we'll be locking down uploads early next week
<ogra> whats metabar ? 
<kwwii> mdz: we have accomplished everything we set out to do and are outdoing ourselves
<kwwii> mdz: cool, I will make sure to get an updated upslash in
<kwwii> ogra: it is shown in the sidebar in konqueror, kinda like MS
<mdz> kwwii: thanks
<mdz> doko_: next
<doko_> status:
<doko_>  - edgy-toolchain: implemented
<doko_>  - edgy-toolchain+1: no status change, opening of edgy+1 needed,
<doko_>    test rebuilds of the archive needed.
<doko_>    planning a coordinated glibc-2.5 / binutils update for not later
<doko_>    than Oct 6.
<doko_>  - python-roadmap: need to go over the list of application packages
<doko_>    in main, mostly bug fixes / missed syncs
<doko_>  - python2.5: final uploaded, extension packages are built for
<doko_>    2.4 and 2.5, 2.5 will not be the default python in edgy.
<doko_>  - java-roadmap: classpath-0.92 based gcj in the archive,
<doko_>    packages providing jni bindings built natively, built
<doko_>    the core java packages as native (-gcj) packages.
<doko_>    gcj-4.2 should be removed for edgy (although we should keep it
<doko_>    for test builds for edgy-toolchain+1 until before the release.
<doko_>  - openoffice.org-l10n: delayed
<doko_> this week:
<doko_>  - scan OOo bugs for printing related bug reports, discuss some
<mdz> doko_: what's the latest from infinity/soyuz regarding test rebuilds?
<doko_>    printing issues with tkamppeter, start OOo bug triage
<doko_>  - prepare and upload OOo 2.0.4, the usual build failures; binary
<doko_>    packages will hit the archive not before tomorrow.
<doko_>  - check and upload printing packages
<doko_>  - python2.5 final upload
<doko_>  - some more gcc/gcj fixes.
<doko_>  - other: fix python-defaults breakage, finally got tired of xfs fs
<doko_>    corruptions on my notebook, reinstalled edgy, recoverd my email setup.
<doko_>  - started SoC summary
<doko_> next week:
<doko_>  - continue OOo bug triage
<Kamion> doko_: openoffice.org-l10n> "delayed" = "deferred"? or post-beta?
<doko_>  - OOo bug triage, focusing on python reports
<doko_> mdz: no news
<doko_> Kamion: deferred
<Kamion> ok
<fabbione> doko_: if you can give the packages i can do sparc toolchain easily
<doko_> fabbione: ok, will do.
<mdz> doko_: ok, I'll make an inquiry
<doko_> mdz: I'll have to coordinate with jbailey, so the time line is not yet final
<mdz> doko_: LP guys are forming a plan regarding opening edgy+1, I"ll talk more with kiko
<doko_> Kamion, Keybuk: will outstanding syncs be processed a last time tomorrow before the beta freeze?
<mdz> I haven't read the emails about the oo.o rejects yet, but I will read and reply properly; discuss out of bnad
<mdz> band
<mdz> doko_: python2.5 final tomorrow, otherwise should probably wait until after beta
<doko_> mdz: is already in
<Kamion> doko_: well, the beta freeze has already started
<Keybuk> doko_: I did a sync run earlier, were there new ones you've added?
<mdz> doko_: oh? I thought the last one I saw was an rc
<tkamppeter> mdz, doko_, will Python be switched to 2.5 in Edgy? I hope this does not break HPLIP.
<Kamion> doko_: but in any event I'm still waiting for the descriptions of the Ubuntu changes you're overriding for those ada and zope syncs
<mdz> but there it is
<Kamion> we need those in the bug, please
<pitti> tkamppeter: no, it won't
<pitti> tkamppeter: it's available, but not the default
<mdz> tkamppeter: no, default is still 2.4
<doko_> Kamion: ajmitch did this for the zope packages, yes, I ahve to do that for ada
<Kamion> yes, please do
<Kamion> I can do the zope syncs if mdz's ok with that
<Kamion> (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/59001)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59001 in Ubuntu "sync zope packages" [Untriaged,Needs info]  
<mdz> Kamion: I am
<Kamion> ok
<mdz> doko_: ok, thanks
<doko_> then we can drop python2.3 ... even if it's universe
<mdz> fabbione: next
<mdz> doko_: yay
<fabbione> Done
<fabbione>  * ubuntu-edgy-cluster: more bug fixing. Pending one bug in userland. GFS2 marke
<fabbione> d as experimental. Not stable enough for production.
<fabbione>  * pkgsum.u.c: no progress
<fabbione>  * edgy-sparc: lots of bug fixing here to get to install and run properly. Left: silo on niagara isn't very happy and a corner case where initramfs is loaded underneath the kernel. One kernel SMP bug on Niagara discovered. ETA for fixes: sometimes during next week.
<fabbione>  * a lot of other bug fixing (mdadm in particular since it had a few regressions from dapper)
<fabbione> To do
<fabbione>  * sparc bug fixing.
<fabbione>  * Bug fixing in general.
<fabbione>  * fire up sparc edgy rebuild of death.
<fabbione> Note:
<fabbione>  * been offline most of the day. PSU on ws is dead (replacement by tomorrow) and
<fabbione>  got laptop fixed only a few minutes ago.
<fabbione> (few minutes before the meeting.. now.. it's one hour ago :)
<mdz> fabbione: please get the sparc bugs filed  and set the beta milestone so they're tracked
<fabbione> mdz: ok.
<mdz> fabbione: there was no sparc knot-3, right?
<fabbione> mdz: no because i come back that week and not enough time to go trough all the backlog
<fabbione> but we will have beta
<mdz> fabbione: are there dailies?
<fabbione> mdz: yes.
<fabbione> and i test from netinstall
<fabbione> so basically on the immediate archve snapshot
<fabbione> archive even
<mdz> have the dailies been tested?
<mdz> the ISOs I mean
<fabbione> not from me
<mdz> please do test them before monday
<fabbione> will do
<mdz> fabbione: thanks
<mdz> Keybuk: next
<Keybuk> Done:
<Keybuk>  * TearDown: examined every package in main and changed some to not stop on shutdown or reboot
<Keybuk>  * Readahead improvements
<Keybuk>  * BootMessageLogging improvements, fsck output now displayed on console and removing "quiet" will do the right thing
<Keybuk>  * Usplash and splash down neatening
<Keybuk> To do:
<Keybuk>  * No outstanding bug fixes for beta
<Keybuk>  * I don't yet have any release-critical bugs which have sufficient information to debug; but I'm sure I'll get some after beta :)
<Keybuk>  * Hunt for other bugs I can fix
<mdz> Keybuk: prereadahead doesn't take as long as I thought it would
<Keybuk> prereadahead ?
<mdz> Keybuk: reading in the foreground
<Keybuk> right, it actually takes less time than reading in the background
<Keybuk> as then you aren't reading files twice
<Keybuk> and aren't thrashing the disk while trying to do other stuff
<mdz> it shouldn't read files twice if the list is sorted properly
<Keybuk> yeah, it would in the background
<mdz> but I think this way is more predictable anyway
<Keybuk> cause it'd start reading the list, while other stuff started
<Keybuk> which was further down the list, because the blocks were near the end of the filesystem
<mdz> Keybuk: if reading in the background, the list should be sorted by order of access
<Keybuk> then the disk head skips everywhere, which .... defeats the object
<mdz> but I guess it wasn't
<Keybuk> there's definite winnage from having the list read in disk position order
<mdz> Keybuk: is upstart single-user pretty happy now?
<Keybuk> seems to be
<Keybuk> it should behave as sysvinit now, both for "exit" and "shutdown"
<mdz> excellent
<mdz> Keybuk: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.10-beta is a good starting point if looking for bugs to fix
<mdz> s/if/when/
<Keybuk> yes, I've seen it
<mdz> Keybuk: ;-) thanks
<mdz> BenC: next
<BenC> * linux-kernel-crash-dump: Will end up disabling kdump on ppc64 and amd64, where it doesn't seem to work. kexec scripts to handle dumping to shell to get useful info will be uploaded with next kexec tools (non-invasive changes to normal kernel operation).
<BenC> * Last week (kernel): Bug crack down time. Spent 12-16 hours per day going through bug reports. Will be doing this the remainder of the release.
<BenC> * Next week (kernel): Nailing down critical bugs. Promoting bugs that need to be fixed before Edgy is released.
<BenC> * Current Major efforts:
<BenC>   - Merging of Mactel patches.
<BenC>   - AGP/DRM update (already done, clean merge, uploading with today's kernel).
<BenC>   - Core 2 Duo backports from 2.6.18 (mainly to do with JMicron controllers). This should be complete now. Dozens of people can't boot Ubuntu on Core 2 Duo because of this. I'm ordering a Core 2 Duo laptop in the next couple of days, so I'll be able to do install testing on this platform.
<BenC>   - PPC64 fixes for sata_svw crash. Fixed now.
<BenC>   - Still working on making sure the crashes related to apport are tested and fixed. Current kernel (upload today) has fixes that should handle one type of crash, and maybe the other. Major concern is that these crashes are obviously security concerns. The fixes need to be tested very throroughly, else apport may be in jeopardy for Edgy release.
<mdz> I had a pretty hairy kernel day on my desktop yesterday while I was trying to get vmware working. hit the crash handler bug several times, and also some other crashes I wasn't able to capture information for
<mdz> it's been stable since then, but I'm uneasy
<fabbione> BenC: don't forget silo love for next week please :)
<BenC> mdz: Did you get the kernel I built for you yesterday?
<pitti> BenC: I'll give it some hard testing here
<BenC> has the fix I implemented
<mdz> BenC: I downloaded it but didn't have time to test yet
<BenC> fabbione: Ah yes, good ole silo
<mdz> it's on my laptop
<BenC> mdz: apport related bugs are my #1 prio right now, I promoted one to ubuntu-6.10-beta
<mdz> BenC: ok, thanks
<mdz> zul: next
<zul> Done
<zul>     * Xen0 and XenU kernels for x86.
<zul>     * Ported xen to dapper
<zul>     * bug fixing
<zul> To do
<zul>     * Porting Xen to 2.6.17 before universe freeze.
<zul>     * Xen0 and XenU kernels for amd64
<zul>     * bug fixing
<mdz> zul: anything for the beta hit list?
<zul> nope not for me
<BenC> mdz: Chuck's trying to get the xen package to build by build-dep'ing on linux-source-2.6.17 and patching it from there, which I think we be better for security updates
<BenC> s/we/will/
<mdz> that'd be handy, yes, if it's now updated fo r2.6.17
<mdz> zul: ok, thankss
<mdz> iwj: next
<BenC> zul: Let me know if you need any help with that too
<iwj> package-dependency-field-breaks: All complete except for the critical changes to update-manager, which I'm starting to get worried about.  See also mvo's report.
<iwj> automated-testing-deployment: No significant change since last report.
<zul> BenC: sure the patch is just a bit hairy
<iwj> this week so far: Have spent it all wrestling trying to get firefox 1.5 into breezy as a security update.  Main difficulty was an obscure string handling bug now reported upstream, for which I have a hideous workaround.  Have had some conversations with timeless from the upstream community about this too but unfortunately not with any better outcome for us (so far).
<iwj> todo: make firefox ship xpidl again (in -dev)
<iwj> todo: anything but firefox! aaargh! etc.
<iwj> Since I wrote that timeless has provided quite a bit more useful help and I think I can actually cross-port the real fix for 1.5.
<iwj> pitti: So if you would reject that firefox upload from earlier ...
<pitti> iwj: I can't; just upload another one with a higher version
<iwj> OK.
<mdz> iwj: timeless...he was making noise on the security group list this week about patches not being sent upstream; I looked over the changelog and it seems almost entirely ubuntu-specific. did he talk with you directly?
<pitti> iwj: I'll do the locale package upgrading for breezy; it's a bit hairy and now I know how to do it
<iwj> No.  I've been talking to him on IRC today and he didn't mention it.
<iwj> pitti: OK.
<mdz> iwj: anything but firefox -> interview prospective firefox gurus ;-)
<iwj> mdz: Quite :-).
* pitti wonders whether asac would be interested
<mdz> pitti: I don't know who asac is, but we welcome all qualified applicants
<iwj> mdz: I'll do that just as soon as I don't mind losing all the state in my head about these fourteen different ff trees I'm hacking.
<iwj> mdz: Alexander Sack.
<pitti> mdz: Alexander Sack, Debian's tbird maintainer and the guy who did the last round of backporting; he does know the code pretty well
<iwj> We should probably invite him to throw his hat in if he's interested.
<mdz> pitti: if you have a dialog with him, feel free to contact him
<pitti> then again, he's aware of the job offer and didn't ask me so far
<pitti> yes, I'm talking to him quite often, but he didn't express interest so far; will ask him more directly, I guess :)
<Kamion> sometimes it does no harm to invite people explicitly
<iwj> pitti: Yes, do.
<mdz> pitti: perhaps a subtle hint ;-)
<Kamion> the best people often underestimate their own abilities
<mdz> Kamion: unless they're known to believe that we eat children
<pitti> 'We're screwed, fix Ubuntu, kthxbye'
<mdz> Kamion: agreed regarding underestimation though
<mdz> that goes for all the job postings currently up
<iwj> Dammit, we eat children ?  Where's my share ?
<mdz> tell your friends
<mdz> we are looking for the best
<mdz> I think that's all for today
<mdz> any other brief business?
<Riddell> no kees?
<mdz> Riddell: I believe he starts next week
<Riddell> ok
<Kamion> he joined earlier and I think he's been watching
<Kamion> (hi!)
<pitti> Riddell: next Wednesday
<pitti> yeah, I invited him to see the general format
<mdz> ok, great
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<mdz> adjourned
<fabbione> thanks guys
<kwwii> bye all, thanks
<fabbione> cya Ken!
<fschoep> see you around
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> thank you
<dholbach> thanks
<pitti> see you all, and thanks
<doko_> bye
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council
<Laifen> re
<sharms> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Oct 12:00: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-22
<Laifen> Bonjour
<BlueT_> Laifen: buongior :)
<harry_sufehmi> exit
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-23
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council
<Laifen> Bonjour
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-24
<joejaxx> interesting
<Fujitsu> @schedule melbourne
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Melbourne: 27 Sep 06:00: Technical Board | 28 Sep 06:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Sep 02:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 04 Oct 03:00: Community Council
<lguerra> @calendar
<DBO> @now Detroit
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Detroit: September 24 2006, 01:20:49 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 2 days
<Laifen> Bonjour  tous
<LockUp> Hello people!
<LockUp> Lack of bootloader configuration (any MORE system settings programs) Ubuntu is less user-friendly.
<GNAM> do you want ubuntu equal suse?
<LockUp> I want fast and user-friendly Linux for desktop. :)
<LockUp> SuSE is too slow. :/
<Laifen> Bonne nuit  tous @++
<sioux> good nigth!
<Sp4rKy> bonjour  tous
<Sp4rKy> excusez moi de vous dranger aussi tardivement
<Sp4rKy> une ide me trote dans la tte depuis quelques jours
<Sp4rKy> oups
<Sp4rKy> sorry, i done a mistake
<Sp4rKy> i would join #u-fr-meeting :/
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-18
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<kraut> moin
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 18 Sep 12:00: Kernel Team | 19 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Sep 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 20 Sep 08:00: Desktop Team Development | 21 Sep 08:00: MOTU Team | 24 Sep 15:00: Screencast Team
<mattwj2005> I have a meeting idea
<mattwj2005> my apartment today...job....to clean it...I'll throw in free Ubuntu CDs
<mattwj2005> :P
<pochu> wi mattwj2005
<mattwj2005> :) just kidding
<maks_> use robots
<mattwj2005> hehe
<mattwj2005> I don't I just use beaming technology ;)
<mattwj2005> *why don't I
<ian_brasil>  @schedule manaus
<zul> heylo
<ian_brasil> @schedule manaus
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Manaus: 18 Sep 12:00: Kernel Team | 19 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Sep 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 20 Sep 08:00: Desktop Team Development | 21 Sep 08:00: MOTU Team | 24 Sep 15:00: Screencast Team
<BenC> missing pkl, but he's known to be busy
<BenC> Ok, this is the start of the Kernel Team meeting
<BenC> agenda hasn't been updated, but it's quite simple
<BenC> beta freeze looming, and we are handling as many bugs as possible to make beta release
<BenC> The most major issue right now is the unionfs breakage that pkl is working
<BenC> pkl_: Can you give a quick one or two lines about your status so you can get back to things?
<pkl_> I have identified two serious bugs in Unionfs that the liveCD is hitting
<BenC> two...are they both causing the same symptom we've been seeing about refcount backtrace?
<ogra> pkl_, i see a lot issues in ltsp as well recently ... if you need any logs or so, just ask ..
<pkl_> The first relates to the BUG_ON in fanout.h, called by unionfs_flush (file close).  This is a race condition, not with the actual dentry being closed, but with the parent dentry going bad, with no branches (which is wrong).
<pkl_> I believe the problem is related to rsyncing of the parent unionfs directory with the lower filesystems (i.e. ro squashfs, and rw tmpfs).
<pkl_> The good thing is whilst I've not discovered the underlying problem, it is easily worked around.
<BenC> is that a kernel work around, or a userspace one?
<pkl_> kernel unionfs workaround - the only reason why the parent branches are being examined is to resync the mtime.  A simple fix is to check there _are_ branches on the parent dentry, and to skip the mtime resync if there aren't.  This "fixes" the BUG_ON in my tests.
<pkl_> It is a workaround that will work while the underlying race is identified.
<pkl_> The second bug is the kernel oops in inode.c (unionfs_open).
<BenC> ok, that'll make everyone happy happy
<BenC> pkl_: did that bug show up after your workaround, or was that known before?
<pkl_> The second bug?  That showed up before the workaround.
<BenC> ok
<pkl_> This is caused because occasionally the vfsmnt point for a lower dentry is NULL.
<pkl_> A little bit of background.
<pkl_> When a unionfs dentry is opened, unionfs in turn opens all the corresponding dentries on the lower filesystems (the branches).
<pkl_> Unionfs stores the correspondng underlying dentries and their vfsmount points.
<BenC> pkl_: this all revolves around the vfs changes for apparmor?
<pkl_> It is relatef.  apparmor changes the vfs interface so much more vfs functions expect the vfsmount.
<pkl_> In this case, however, the vfs dentry_open() function has always expected a vfsmount, and so it is unrelated to the vfs changes.
<pkl_> ^unrelated^not caused
<BenC> Ok, guess I can't bad mouth kees now :)
<pkl_> Again, the underlying reason appears to be a race condition.
<pkl_> Still working on the cause.
<BenC> pkl_: have you talked to unionfs upstream about this at all?
<pkl_> As a temporary workaround, I have put a hack in the unionfs_open code to remember the correct vfsmount point for each branch. In the case of the liveCD there's two branches, and therefore two vfsmount points.
<pkl_> if the vfsmount point lookup for a dentry fails, the hack replaces it with the correct vfsmount point previously remembered.
<pkl_> This fixes the oops, and it is definately the cause.
<BenC> pkl_: Ok, two workarounds sounds like decent progress, so excellent work. When can we get these in lum for an upload?
<pkl_> Now I have establised the causes I can email the unionfs guys.
<pkl_> I was planning on putting the hacks into lum in a couple of hours (I have to strip them out of my heavily hacked unionfs code).
<BenC> pkl_: ok, ping me when you're ready and I'll get an upload out
<pkl_> OK
<BenC> thanks
<BenC> So I sent an email to the kernel-team list explaining what our current focus should be
<BenC> At this point in release cycle is where we are usually the busiest
<BenC> I don't forsee any problems like we've had in the past, simply because the upstream kernel stabalized very well and we stuck to stock code so strictly
<BenC> but we do have some minor usage bugs and some regressions that we should handle in the next few weeks
<BenC> and we need to keep a close eye on the incoming bugs (and bugs marked NEW) to make sure we aren't over looking anything major
<BenC> amitk, rtg_, kylem: Anything major you guys are working on that needs to get in with beta?
<kylem> amt.
<rtg_> misc sky2 fixes, perhaps some audio quirks. Dunno for sure yet.
<zul> bug #77725 should probably get in
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 77725 in linux-source-2.6.17 "No Driver for Attansic Gigabit Ethernet" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77725
<kylem> ..
<amitk> just the usb-autosuspend-prevention patch from mjg59
<kylem> atl1 is in gutsy.
<kylem> oh.
<kylem> they should file a second bug.
<kylem> muppets.
<amitk> hmm... I just noticed you cherry-picked it...
<BenC> amitk: merged that already
<BenC> kylem: yeah, that's what I started to think till I got down to the atl2 part
<BenC> ok, atl2 should be put into lum
<BenC> anyone up for doing that?
<zul> i can since i brought it up
<BenC> zul: you sure can...good man :)
<BenC> zul: shoot a pull request to #ubuntu-kernel when you can, thanks
<zul> no probs
<BenC> the other major issue is the header post{inst,rm} scripts that I am working on
<BenC> needed for DKMS and feisty compatibility
<rtg_> BenC: why is it more complicated then just fixing the perl expressions?
<BenC> rtg_: because the scripts from kernel-package need to be munged a bit
<BenC> debconf stuff removed/disabled, variable replacements taken into account
<BenC> rtg_: fixing the perl replacements in kernel-package doesn't fix our kernel builds, and the scripts are not 1-to-1 compatible with our build system
<rtg_> Well, I haven't delved into it in that level of detail.
<BenC> Ok, any other business?
<dholbach> is somebody on bug 98641?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 98641 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "[nvidia-glx-new]  Driver is missing libwfb breaking X on 8000 series cards" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/98641
<dholbach> it's on the sponsoring bug queue
<BenC> dholbach: already fixed
<dholbach> rock on - thanks a lot - can it be closed then?
<BenC> yeah, definitely
<dholbach> ok great
<dholbach> gracias
<dholbach> thanks for dealing with the sponsoring bugs
<BenC> and with that, let's cut this meeting out so we can all get back to work :)
<BenC> dholbach: np, thanks for keeping up on them
<BenC> thanks everyone
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Sep 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 21 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 24 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 25 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting
<siretart> do meetings using the MootBot need to be registered somewhere?
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-19
<DPic> Hello
<flint> highvoltage, Good morning Jonathan from the free republic of Vermont, USA
<jsgotangco> arrrrr matey
<highvoltage> hey flint
<highvoltage> @schedule
* ogra quickly gets some coffee ... 2mins please
<RichEd> hello edubunteros ...
<RichEd> we'll kick off with ogra on technical
<`6og> hi all
<`6og> ogra may still be cafinating
<simira> haha, ogra just left for coffee :p
<simira> he'll brb
<RichEd> :) no problem
* ogra waves
<`6og> 2b
<`6og> wb
<`6og> :|
<RichEd> let's try that again, with coffee: we'll kick off with ogra on technical
<RichEd> :)
<ogra> * Where are we in the development cycle:
<ogra> last deadline was string freeze on 13th
<ogra> we missed that largely with the edubuntu-docs :/
<ogra> LaserJock wanted to upload it by seems he was out of time ... i'll try to get that in today
<ogra> * What is the next deadline ?
<ogra> next deadline is beta freeze which is tomorrow
<ogra> with the majority of stuff we're ready ...
<RichEd> yay
<ogra> there are some ltsp bugs i want to look at and due to the brokenness of the isos i still couldnt test the instaler changes
<ogra> edubuntu-artwork is just in my hands and i'm making the final changes
<RichEd> ogra: does jill need to do any more ?
<RichEd> changes I mean
<ogra> we shipped an additional icon theme the last releases for the "plain" flavour
<ogra> RichEd, nope, i think its fine as is
<ogra> i'm planning to drop that ... i doubt anyone every used it and i'll take care for the icons in the "plain" theme to fall back on something sane
<ogra> that will save us 10M
<ogra> moodle was changed a lot by LaserJock and moquist the last weeks and sits in the main inclusion queue for review
<ogra> its likely we'll have it in the default install this time
* RichEd holds thumbs for approva;
<RichEd> *approval
<highvoltage> lots of people will rejoice for that
<ogra> well, that was actually already the "* Progress over the last week" topic
* ogra was very busy with stuff for the classmate PC as well so didnt do as much on the distro as i wanted
<RichEd> we can actually make a public announcement now on that ...
<ogra> we discovered one bad bug in ltsp i'd love to solve ... but that will cost us 16M on the cD
<RichEd> A version of Ubuntu with Education applications is being developed for the Intel Classmate PC
<RichEd> Intel have looked at a few Linux options, but decided to go with Ubuntu because of customer demand
<RichEd> So it will be available with Windows / Ubuntu ... those will be the two supported sales options
<RichEd> ---
<ogra> since ubunt defaults to use compiz, we should have support for it in ltsp, but due to a missing 16M big library it cant do composite ...
<`6og> hm... interesting to see
<`6og> 16*mb* *lib*?
<ogra> mesa-dir
<ogra> *err dri
<ogra> its not on the edubuntu CD
<ogra> that would mean we miss a big feature we inherit from ubuntu
<ogra> but i sadly have no idea where to get 16M from
<`6og> how much extra grunt does this mean we need on the terminals?
<ogra> nothing
<ogra> its not used on the majority of terminals at all
<`6og> saywah?
<`6og> oh right
<`6og> can you explain the compiz by default bit - how 'by default' is it?
<ogra> you need a compoisite capable device on the client
<ogra> fully by default
<ogra> if you install ubuntu its the window manager
<ogra> the autodetection falls back to metacity if it doesnt find composite though
<ogra> i dont think we can ignore such a big feature
<ogra> but i have no idea what top drop ... and it will affect *all* CDs
<`6og> what sort of odds are there that it fails to fall back to metacity properly?
<ogra> very minimal chances
<`6og> suppose thats as good as it gets in reality ;)
<ogra> it was on nearly the whole dev cycle already
<ogra> so there was a good amount of feedback
<ogra> the feature will be there in any cqase
<ogra> my prob atm is that openoffice is broken since weeks now and i cant even guess the real CD size
<ogra> currently they are all about 30M oversized, but i dont know how much of that is openoffices fault and how much is real oversizedness
<ogra> i'll do my best to get it fixed, but cant promise anything here
<ogra> well, thats about it ...
<ogra> any questions anyone ?
<juliux_> yes, is the image from today bootable?
<ogra> no idea
<juliux_> ok
<`6og> how long do bugs keep getting fixed for?
* `6og has a recollection of stuff freezing over totally real soon
<ogra> there was a kernel upload ... likely that there is something out of sync
<juliux_> ogra, is there an other image i can download for testing?
<ogra> but i havent tested it at all ...
<ogra> juliux_, only the ones on cdimage.u.c
<juliux_> hm ok
<ogra> `6og, that totally depends :)
<ogra> `6og, its a matter of severity and of the size of the fix
<ogra> samll bugs will still get fixed after beta if the fixes are non intrusive
<ogra> bigger ones if they are severe enough
<`6og> :) gotcha
<ogra> other questions ?
<ogra> doesnt look like ...
<ogra> going once
<RichEd> ogra: what status do I look for in LP to confirm which features look likely to go in ?
<ogra> RichEd, hmm, we'll need to go over that i set all that were not likely to get in to deferred at feature freeze, but didnt go over the rest yet
<RichEd> okay ... when you have a chance thanks ...
<RichEd> that's all
<ogra> adjourned then :)
<ogra> thanks everybody
<RichEd> thanks ogra and others
<`6og> adjourned = stopping, or pausing?
<ogra> stopping
<Hobbsee> ogra!
<`6og> ok
<ogra> Hobbsee, !
<jjesse> @Detroit
<jjesse> @time Detroit
<juliux_> @schedule detroit
<juliux_> jjesse, ;)
<jjesse> ah thanks juliux_
<jjesse> @schedule detroit
<soren> That's odd.
<soren> @schedule America/Detroit
<soren> ?
<soren> Ah, it /msg's them :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Sep 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 21 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 24 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 25 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<kraut> moin
<jjesse> moin
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 21 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 24 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 25 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-20
<Ziroday> @schedule Singapore
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 20 Sep 20:00: Desktop Team Development | 21 Sep 20:00: MOTU Team | 25 Sep 03:00: Screencast Team | 25 Sep 23:00: Server Team meeting | 26 Sep 00:00: Kernel Team | 26 Sep 03:00: Technical Board
<kraut> moin
<kwwii> hi Keybuk
<Keybuk> Heya
<Keybuk> just putting together the agenda so I can mail it out :-)
<pitti> hi
<Keybuk> just waiting for iwj I think
<pitti> he just pung in #distro
<Keybuk> ah, my canonical connection appears stoned
* Keybuk kicks it
<kwwii> i pung him
<Keybuk> #startmeetingt
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:52. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<Keybuk> Ok, this should be a fairly short one since there weren't any agenda items to add
<Keybuk> did anybody have anything they wanted to add to my mail I just sent out
<Keybuk> currently we just have
<Keybuk>  * Ideas for hardy
<kwwii> I have one thing to add about some artwork packages will still need to change
<pitti> syncing and reading mail...
<kwwii> but nothing major...just s/feisty/gutsy
<kwwii> it just occured to me yesterday that this was a problem
<Keybuk> kwwii: ok, let's cover that briefly; what are the packages?
<iwj> Err, I put some agenda items in my activity report and they don't seem to be there.  Some of them have been dealt with ...
<Keybuk> [TOPIC]  some artwork packages still need to change feisty -> gutsy
<MootBot> New Topic:  some artwork packages still need to change feisty -> gutsy
<kwwii> feisty-session-splash, feisty-gdm-theme and such
<kwwii> as I have started taking over more of the packages themselves I did not realize it until yesterday, so I have to make sure that I can still get them in
<pitti> kwwii: that sounds fine
<kwwii> the one package which included different artwork was changed yesterday
<pitti> kwwii: subject to my scrutinizing, of course :)
<kwwii> pitti: cool, when I am done with the changes I will show them to you first
<pitti> kwwii: sounds like some NEWing is in order there, but that shouldn't be a problem either
<kwwii> pitti: yeah, in the future (at UDS) I will discuss this and figure out how to make the package non-release dependent
<kwwii> silly to use a release name in the package and have to make it new every time
<kwwii> dholbach and I agreed to discuss this at UDS
<Keybuk> I think the original intent was that we'd change the theme for each release
<Keybuk> so people should be able to retain the old one
<dholbach> and that people can install their 'feisty theme' if they like that better, even if they run hardy
<kwwii> hrm, right
<pitti> kwwii: NEWing is no problem and not much work, I just need to be told so that it happens quickly
<pitti> s/I/any archive admin/
<kwwii> pitti: I'll get it done right away then
<kwwii> I also have a new package for universe but that does not seem to be such a problem
<Keybuk> [AGREED]  Ken and Daniel to discuss theme package naming at UDS
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Ken and Daniel to discuss theme package naming at UDS
<Keybuk> [ACTION]  kwwii to fix package names and notify pitti beforehand to aid NEW processing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kwwii to fix package names and notify pitti beforehand to aid NEW processing
<Keybuk> ok, Ian: sorry missed your sl-modem-daemon agenda item (I think the QA one is being discussed by mail adequately?)
<iwj> QA> Yes.
<Keybuk> [TOPIC]  sl-modem-daemon has stopped working since Tribe 5
<MootBot> New Topic:  sl-modem-daemon has stopped working since Tribe 5
<iwj> So I just wanted to ask kernel guys if they had any ideas ?
<Keybuk> I'm not sure we have any kernel guys here :)
<iwj> Or thoughts about how to go about debugging it.
<iwj> Hmm.
<Keybuk> probably best to follow up on #ubuntu-kernel or the mailing list, and grab a developer directly
<iwj> OK, I'll try that.
<Keybuk> did you try the newer version of sl-modem-daemon you talked about
<iwj> Not yet.
<Keybuk> ok
<iwj> But I did retest tribe 5, and it still works.
<Keybuk> does anyone else here have a modem that has worked with sl-modem-daemon that they could use to help Ian test?
<Keybuk> iwj: that's something, at least :-)
<pitti> soren has one
<iwj> You don't need an actual phone line for this particular bug.
<pitti> and TeTeT has two
<soren> huh?
<pitti> they both helped me with testing the new restricted-manager magic for it
<iwj> soren: Let's talk about it out of the meeting.  I'd like a bit of help with sl-modem-daemon testing.
<pitti> soren: I saw your pci modalias! (Muhhahaha)
<soren> *g*
<soren> iwj: Right, I think I have some logs for you that might help.
<TeTeT> iwj: ping me any time, we have a quasi modem line in the Montreal h/w cert lab
<Keybuk> [ACTION]  iwj to talk to kernel developers about sl-modem-daemon breakage
<MootBot> ACTION received:  iwj to talk to kernel developers about sl-modem-daemon breakage
<Keybuk> [ACTION]  iwj to test newer sl-modem-daemon to see whether that fixes the problem
<iwj> TeTeT: OK, are you on #ubuntu-devel ?  We can talk there.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  iwj to test newer sl-modem-daemon to see whether that fixes the problem
<Keybuk> [ACTION]  iwj to rope in soren and TeTeT to help testing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  iwj to rope in soren and TeTeT to help testing
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> [TOPIC]  Ideas for hardy
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ideas for hardy
<Mithrandir> iwj wins at action items.
<Keybuk> Thanks to everyone who included their Hardy ideas in their activity summary e-mail
<Keybuk> I'd like to go down the list quickly to generate some discussion
<Keybuk> prefix your idea with "[IDEA] " so mootbot can pick it up <g>
<Keybuk> kwwii: you first
<kwwii> [IDEA]  update the widget theme
<MootBot> IDEA received:  update the widget theme
<kwwii> [IDEA]  straighten out the process for artwork
<MootBot> IDEA received:  straighten out the process for artwork
<kwwii> [IDEA]   create a color palette and clear rules of use
<MootBot> IDEA received:   create a color palette and clear rules of use
<pitti> artwork process: is it so complicated ATM?
<kwwii> pitti: well, we have no clear process and lots of different versions which all have their own rules
<kwwii> pitti: also, it would be good to be able to get the community involved again
<pitti> kwwii: ah, as "set of packages we need to update", and check whether we can merge some of them, etc.?
<kwwii> pitti: right, and on top of that decide which versions have total community control, and which not
<kwwii> pitti: and in addition set clear rules for evolving the look instead of just recreating the wheel every time
<kwwii> ubuntu is very stagnant, no wonder that the community finds it hard to contribute
<kwwii> that brings us to the second idea, of creating a palette and clear rules for the artwork
<Keybuk> kwwii: one of the things I've talked about already with Mark is the idea of using the LTS as the time we bring in a bold new look, and then evolve it over the next non-LTS releases until a new look for the next LTS
<kwwii> until now, we have light brown and dark brown
<Keybuk> that would seem to fit in with your idea?
<kwwii> Keybuk: yes, it does
<kwwii> in some ways, the most important part of this is to know exactly what we can change (from mark)
<kwwii> as for the widget theme, we would need some technical people to help out
<Keybuk> ok, thanks
<Keybuk> iwj: you're next :)
<iwj> [IDEA]  Dialup support should be better
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Dialup support should be better
<iwj> [IDEA]  Easy reinstallation: separate /home and a bit of migration support
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Easy reinstallation: separate /home and a bit of migration support
<iwj> [IDEA]  Encrypted swap (already!)
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Encrypted swap (already!)
<iwj> [IDEA]  Disk encryption by default on laptops
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Disk encryption by default on laptops
<iwj> [IDEA]  Declarative diversions
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Declarative diversions
<iwj> [IDEA]  Better conffile messing support
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Better conffile messing support
<Keybuk> iwj: could you expand a little on "easy reinstallation" and "declarative diversions" ?
<iwj> Easy reinstallation - separate /home and some migration of installed packages or other key bits of system configuration.  We cannot assume our users are competent to fix a broken system or a failed upgrade, so we need to make reinstallation without loss of data easy.
<kwwii> iwj: excellent idea
<iwj> Declarative diversions for dpkg.  This will get rid of a whole class of packaging bugs, and make Robert Collin's conflicts/replaces checker much more effective.  For the usual reasons this has a longish deployment schedule: if we implement it for hardy we'll be able to use it in anger in hardy+1 and of course eventually Debian will adopt it and it will become the new default.
<cjwatson> separate /home> we need to have an argument about this ;-) it's come up many times before and there are reasons we haven't done it
<cjwatson> (not necessarily insuperable but they can't just be brushed aside IMO)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: if only we got everyone together in one room :p
<iwj> cjwatson: I know, but I think the benefits outweigh the alleged disadvantages on modern systems with big disks.
<Keybuk> . o O { lvm by default makes the issues go away }
<iwj> I think we should talk about it at UDS.
<cjwatson> sure
<cjwatson> Keybuk: and brings in so many new ones ...
<Keybuk> iwj: what does a declarative diversion mean?
<Keybuk> or, I should say, what would one look like?
<iwj> It means your package has a control file DEBIAN/diversions instead of your maintscripts calling dpkg-divert to edit a database in /var.
<Mithrandir> which means people won't try to add diversions in postinsts and similar.
<iwj> There are all sorts of braindamages which will be impossible to perpetrate :-).
<Mithrandir> declarative diversions sounds like a great thing to have.
<cjwatson> can you lump in declarative alternatives with that?
<pitti> ++, as with declarative obsolete conffiles
<iwj> cjwatson: Possibly.  Hmm.  Worth thinking about the two together, at least.
<cjwatson> last time I checked there were eight different systems in routine use for where to call update-alternatives in your maintainer scripts
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: "nice"
<iwj> Let me make a separate idea for it so it doesn't get lost.
<iwj> [IDEA]  Declarative alternatives
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Declarative alternatives
<cjwatson> (not helped by policy not providing any guidance at all on the topic)
<iwj> Tempting to say [IDEA]  Alternative declaratives
<Keybuk> iwj: excellent!
<Keybuk> pitti: your turn
<pitti> [IDEA]  Complete redesign of the restricted-manager code
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Complete redesign of the restricted-manager code
<pitti> The initial design was never meant to get all the features and extensions bolted on that we use it for nowadays: non-module related handlers, KDE frontend, notifications, cooperation with compiz settings, etc. The current code makes it a pain to add new features or fix bugs.
<pitti> not exactly sexy, but we won't get around it, I'm afraid
<pitti> [IDEA]  Find/tweak/create a backup solution that doesn't suck and is adequate for home users, as well as flexible enough for dudes like us.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Find/tweak/create a backup solution that doesn't suck and is adequate for home users, as well as flexible enough for dudes like us.
<pitti> [IDEA]  Improve synchronization between Evolutions, cellphones, PDAs, etc.
<pitti> (everything that speaks SyncML for now).
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Improve synchronization between Evolutions, cellphones, PDAs, etc.
<pitti> (stolen from the IdeaPool)
<pitti> and finally something longer-term:
<pitti> [IDEA]  Start a desktop application for a decision tree based guided bug filing.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Start a desktop application for a decision tree based guided bug filing.
<pitti> We started discussing this on last UDS (UbuntuSpec:smart-bugreporting-tool) and I do not expect to get it done by Hardy, but we should start on it.
<pitti> EOL
<Mithrandir> pitti: backup> can we throw in "and you don't trust the host/medium you're backing on to" to the list of features?
<Mithrandir> trust as in security-trust, not reliability-trust.
<pitti> Mithrandir: nothing spec'ed yet :)
<pitti> Mithrandir: I see what you are up to, yes (not that I would use crypto myself, I quite trust my colo server)
<Mithrandir> so I do a buddy backup to a friend's machine, and him to mine and we wouldn't be able to read each other's backups.
<pitti> Mithrandir: -> UDS spec, I'd say, but great idea
<Keybuk> pitti: ok, make a note of Tollef's concerns
<iwj> backups++
<pitti> but in general, the lack of a good backup solution has nagged me for years
<Mithrandir> heck, I use encrypted file systems on racked servers too, disks die and I don't trust the disk manufacturers. :-)
<pitti> s/good/one that doesn't suck for me/
* pitti currently uses rsnapshot plus rsync to get them to the server
<Mithrandir> backuppc isn't too bad, but it's pull, not push.
<Mithrandir> but we probably don't need to look at all the options here. :-)
<pitti> Keybuk: note> done
<pitti> Mithrandir: right, pull sucks
<pitti> (for my use case, anyway)
<pitti> rsnapshot is pull for remote op, too
<Keybuk> ok, and Mithrandir?  (though you may have already communicated your mobile ideas to mdz)
<Mithrandir> [IDEA]  get bluetooth fixed
<MootBot> IDEA received:  get bluetooth fixed
<Mithrandir> [IDEA]  investigate webkit for mobile
<Mithrandir> [IDEA]  get conduit into shape so we can use it for syncing anything to anything
<MootBot> IDEA received:  investigate webkit for mobile
<MootBot> IDEA received:  get conduit into shape so we can use it for syncing anything to anything
<Mithrandir> [IDEA]  pam_keyring or similar, by default?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  pam_keyring or similar, by default?
<Mithrandir> [IDEA]  UME - chroots, how to manage?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  UME - chroots, how to manage?
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: webkit for desktop might be nice <g>
<Keybuk> pitti: did you look at conduit for your syncing solution?
<Mithrandir> well, yes, that too, so possibly rewrite that to "investigate webkit"
<Mithrandir> there exists patches for epiphany to use webkit.
<pitti> Keybuk: I haven't looked yet; last time I actually tried that stuff was over a year ago with multisync
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: yeah, I built them here a couple of days ago
<seb128> Mithrandir: we already have pam_keyring by default
<Mithrandir> seb128: we do?
<seb128> Mithrandir: it's part of gnome-keyring 2.20 and gdm uses it
<seb128> Mithrandir: yes libpam-gnome-keyring
<Keybuk> there's a checkbox in the gnome-keyring password dialog now isn't there?
<Keybuk> [ ]  Unlock keyring on login
<Keybuk> or something
<Keybuk> (it doesn't work if you use auto-login of course ... :p)
<seb128> right
<Mithrandir> seb128: to my defence, I haven't been on a WPA network lately so I haven't been annoyed by the gnome keyring manager dialogue.
<seb128> if anybody who knows pam would like to help me to get it working with autologin that would be nice
<seb128> also integrating it with passwd should work but I didn't do the packaging changes
<seb128> so when the password is changing the keyring one is updated
<cjwatson> seb128: you might want to grab Steve for that
<cjwatson> (pam/autologin)
<seb128> cjwatson: right
<seb128> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeKeyring/Pam has details also, I need to try with that, I've just been too busy
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/GnomeKeyring/Pam has details also, I need to try with that, I've just been too busy
<seb128> MootBot: that was not for you :p
<Keybuk> ok, thanks everyone
<Keybuk> any other business?
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:32.
* pitti goes to fix CD sizes
<pitti> 12 MB oversizedness, without a single langpack to remove *sigh*
<iwj> Keybuk: Are we going to take these [IDEA] s and turn them into a spec each ?  Can I suggest that the thing on the UDS agenda should be or include a solution-neutral problem statement ?
<iwj> (Less relevant for "fix this broken thing in the obvious way")
<Hobbsee> pitti: we discussed this.  reverse langpacks are still the way to go.  *g*
<Keybuk> iwj: Sorry, didn't make that clear :-)
<Keybuk> The ideas will be discussed with the other team leads, and then will form the basis of the goals for UDS/Hardy - after some moderation depending on what's possible, or desirable for the LTS
<Keybuk> they may form one or more specs each
<iwj> Right.
<Keybuk> I expect that will form the bulk of today's team leads call
* pitti ^5s his team
<iwj> Oh, I need coffee!
<siretart> #help
<siretart> MootBot: #help
<siretart> hmmm
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 24 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 25 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<evand> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 21 Sep 08:00: MOTU Team | 24 Sep 15:00: Screencast Team | 25 Sep 11:00: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 12:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu
<Rinchen> anyone from the scribes team around?
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-21
<kraut> moin
<Balkhog> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 21 2007, 06:35:43 - Next meeting: MOTU Team in 5 hours 24 minutes
* Fujitsu wonders how many will be here tonight.
<dholbach> welcome everybody to the MOTU meeting
<dholbach> who wants to run it this time?
<dholbach> who wants to take notes?
* TheMuso will do minutes and announcements.
<Fujitsu> Thanks TheMuso.
<dholbach> TheMuso: you rock
<dholbach> TheMuso: thanks again for sending out the reminder
<TheMuso> np
<dholbach> Ok, let me run it then....
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> Agenda is up at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> use MootBot?
<zul> hey
<ajmitch> hi seb128
<dholbach> ajmitch: I don't know how to use it :)
<seb128> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> oh dear :)
<dholbach> forget it then... :-)
<dholbach> First up is ScottK with "Sponsored merge workflow (PPA as a useful adjunct, but not a replacement)"
<ScottK> OK.  The issue in question is the "alternative" process described here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<ScottK> I believe that from a MOTU perspective we have had a good process and that PPA is, while useful, not an alternative.
<dholbach> Do I understand correctly that the core of the problem is that you get a link to a .dsc file instead of a debdiff?
<ScottK> I am specifically concerned about the integrity of our code base.
<ScottK> Currently we trust Debian and so the MOTU responsibility is to evaluate the debdiff and understand it.
<ScottK> Yes.  That's correct.
<dholbach> I have that on my todo list and I agree with you, that it should be fixed
<dholbach> I should file a bug on ubuntu-dev-tools to make that clear
<persia> I much prefer a debdiff to a PPA sample - the .dsc seems fairly dangerous.
<ScottK> I think that MUST come before it's an alternative.
<ajmitch> why is it dangerous?
<TheMuso> IMO PPA should not be used for sponsorship. Nuff said from me. :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: because somebody might sneak in a different .orig.tar.gz, I guess
<persia> ajmitch: Because it's really, really easy to just upload something without noticing a small change somewhere.
<ScottK> ajmitch: What code is connected to that .dsc?
<dholbach> TheMuso: the good thing is: it gets automatically built on all archs
<ajmitch> but you'd be checking the diff anyway, right?
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Where all != all.
<TheMuso> dholbach: I don't doubt that, but I think it discourages local test building.
<ScottK> ajmitch: That's the point is that I still have to make the debdiff and look at it.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: That too.
<persia> ajmitch: Yes, but does everyone?
<ajmitch> persia: I should hope so
<ScottK> So the alternative process is actually more work for me as a MOTU then.
<dholbach> TheMuso: that's something we can codify in the wiki describing the review process
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Same. If they don't... well, we're likely screwed anyway.
<ScottK> Generally, I'm VERY concerned that this is now listed as an "alternative process" without any of this getting discussed before.
<TheMuso> There is also the issue of having to change section and version info.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Agreed.
<persia> TheMuso: Good point.  That makes it safer.
<dholbach> TheMuso: yes, we talked about that - we should make it an action point to ask the LP developers about their plans for that
<ScottK> Except when someone forgets to change the version....
<TheMuso> If we really want to get more MOTUs in, are we not for something that is proven, and takes less time to do?
<ScottK> TheMuso: Which is that?
<TheMuso> As we could get rather busy.
<TheMuso> ScottK: IMO having to use a PPA also takes more time.
<dholbach> ScottK: I updated the SponsorshipProcess page with your suggestion yesterday
<persia> Also, would these be sponsored uploads, or collaborative uploads, in the changelog?  If the changelog is to be changed, it makes sense to use collaborative, but then the package doesn't show in the contributors package page.
<TheMuso> YOu have to download the package, check MD5sum of orig tarball, perform a debdiff, etc.
<seb128> I don't get the issue with uploads to ppa, what is dangerous there?
<ajmitch> seb128: I see it more as less convenient to review rather than dangerous
<TheMuso> The only time I think ppa may be useful, is for new upstream versions.
<ScottK> dholbach: That's not a great difference in my view.
<persia> seb128: Nothing dangerous about an upload to PPA, but rather I find it easier to review a debdiff to make sure the changes are sane than to download both and generate the debdiff myself.
<seb128> ajmitch: I find it easier to apt-get source than to use REVU
<ajmitch> TheMuso: and even then, no matter how it's sponsored, the orig.tar.gz should be getting checked
<ScottK> dholbach: It should be removed from that page and on a different page for experimental process.
<ajmitch> seb128: right, this is mainly for fixes to existing versions, which is usually a debdiff attached to a bug
<ajmitch> (afaik)
<seb128> persia: make them attach the debdiff to the bug then
<pkern> It is possible to add more information on the revu pages (and check more points automatically) by modifying the available source code. On LP that won't be that easy (one needs to export it from there and check it somewhere else).
<persia> seb128: In that case, why ask them to upload to PPA?
<Hobbsee> oh, there's a meeting...
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<ScottK> seb128: This is about merges.  Nothing to do with REVU.
<Hobbsee> started 10 mins ago?  rock on!
<seb128> persia: because it's easier to get the source and to have binaries to test
<dholbach> ScottK: if that's what you want, I can do that
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: glad you survived work :)
<dholbach> ScottK: I also filed bug 141488
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141488 in ubuntu-dev-tools "ppaput should have an option to generate a debdiff" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141488
<ScottK> dholbach: I think we need to have this process stuff worked out BEFORE we expose hopefuls to it.
<ajmitch> ScottK: except that people often want to use REVU for that as well :)
<pkern> seb128: `dget -x <URL to the dsc>' is easy with REVU.
<dholbach> ScottK: we need to use it to spot problems
<ScottK> ajmitch: Sure, but that's not the current topic.
<seb128> pkern: I didn't say it was not possible
<ScottK> dholbach: The way to experiment is to select a few reasonably experienced hopefuls and have them try it and they and their sponsors give feedback.
<seb128> pkern: the issue is not to know what REVU does or not but rather what would not work with ppa
<ScottK> Not just throw it out there.
<ScottK> I do think "and I built it in my PPA, here's the results" is useful.
<seb128> I think ppa is easy to use and provide handy access to the sources and binaries while being integrated in launchpad
<ajmitch> ScottK: even though this is a proposed approach?
<ScottK> I do NOT think it's a replacement.
<pkern> If I would put a package on ppa I would suffix the version with ~ppaX, for uploads to REVU I won't do that, so those could be uploaded verbatim w/o having to again change the version.
<ScottK> ajmitch: What's proposed is that instead, not as a supplement.
<dholbach> ScottK: I think we discussed that already. I filed that bug on ubuntu-dev-tools
<dholbach> and I intend to work on it
<ScottK> dholbach: RIght.  Fix the bug and then we can use this process.
<seb128> pkern: that's not true, ppa doesn't happen a prefix to the version
<dholbach> Ok. Any more points to discuss about this?
<ScottK> dholbach: Part of my major beef about process change is I'm here at a meeting AFTER this new process has already been kicked off.
<seb128> s/happen/append
<ScottK> This should all have been discussed before.
<dholbach> ScottK: I wrote two 3 mailing lists about it
<pkern> seb128: Correct. So people having my PPA won't update to the version officially built.
<dholbach> ScottK: nobody bothered to reply
<dholbach> ScottK: and I got good comments from users
<dholbach> ScottK: I offered it as an alternative
<ScottK> It's not yet suitable as an alternative.
<dholbach> ScottK: What do you want me to do?
<ScottK> Discuss it in a meeting.
<dholbach> ScottK: I filed bugs and am altering the documentation
<seb128> pkern: people should not use sponsoring ppas to update their system
<dholbach> meetings only reach out to 5-6 people being there
<pkern> *cough*
<ScottK> dholbach: If it's on the agenda, then people have a chance to show up and discuss it.
<TheMuso> I am willing to try working with PPAs for sponsorship.
<dholbach> I created http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess/ppaput
<TheMuso> Although I may not like it now, I am willing to change my POV.
<seb128> ScottK: I don't get why you think that is not suitable as an alternative
* ajmitch doesn't think that any proposed change to how things work should have to go to a meeting & be approved by committee
<pkern> seb128: So will there be *different* sponsoring ppas? Or will I need to upload to my own ppa?
<ScottK> seb128: Because I need the debdiff to review.
<ScottK> seb128: Currently that means I have to make it in the alternative process.
<seb128> ScottK: that's an orthogonal issue
<seb128> ScottK: people should still open bugs and attach the debdiff there
<ScottK> seb128: Adding workload to sponsors is not a useful process improvement
* TheMuso thought of one advantage.
* Fujitsu notes we could really do with multiple PPAs, if we're using this.
<TheMuso> We can ensure generated diffs are actually sane. :)
<ScottK> seb128: That's not the process dholbach documented.
<dholbach> We discussed the debdiff issue - can we please move on to other problems with this
<TheMuso> I have worked with a lot of sponsors who haven't produced sane patches.
<ScottK> dholbach: Was answering seb128's question.
<dholbach> I think I also justified myself reasonably for the course of action I've taken, also we agreed on asking the LP developers for their plans for changelogs/sections - I'm willing to get in touch with them about that
<dholbach> what other issues are we talking about here?
<ScottK> dholbach: I do think we need to (not right now) have a meta discussion about how we achieve consensus on process change.
<dholbach> ScottK: good
<ScottK> dholbach: I also disagree that your actions are reasonable, but that's part of why we need the meta process change discussion.
<persia> Looking at the SponsorshipProcess page again, it appears that a bug is being opened.  Am I understanding correctly that there is a bug filed (or can be filed) to generate a debdiff as part of this process?  In that case, does the inclusion of a PPA upload necessarily mean a difference for the sponsor?  It seems optional to me.
<ScottK> We can move on.
<dholbach> persia: the debdiff option still needs to happen - that's what bug 141488 is about
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141488 in ubuntu-dev-tools "ppaput should have an option to generate a debdiff" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141488
<dholbach> Ok great.
<ScottK> persia: As it was written before there was no requirement for a debdiff, just a .dsc link.  That's what got me all fired up.
<persia> dholbach: That's what I thought.  Thanks for the confirmation.
<ScottK> But as I said, I think we can move on.
<dholbach> Any other business?
<dholbach> I'd personally like to draw attention to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO
* TheMuso seconds dholbach's TODO suggestion.
<ScottK> dholbach: It's not on the agdnda, but can we talk about the wiki reorganization?
<ajmitch> dholbach: excellent :)
<dholbach> I added includes to that page so we can easily draw attention to a few bugs selected for new contributors
<TheMuso> I've been going through our pile of bugs and finding useful ones to triaj.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: there are people here from so many countries - demanding that everything goes thru a meeting to change is utter arrogance on your part, and disrespectful for those not in your timezone.
<dholbach> ScottK: I asked for other business and I won't take long
<ScottK> Hobbsee: We need to decide how we decide on process change.
<ScottK> That's a discussion that needs to be had.
<dholbach> ScottK: ok, misunderstood you, nevermind
<Hobbsee> ScottK: the reason for the mailing list is so that it *isnt* real time, so that everyone actually has a chance to rrespond.
<Fujitsu> Yay, changing the process changing process.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: indeed.  via ML, if anyone actually responds to it.
<dholbach> these lists are really easy to update, but involve people tagging bugs as packaging or bitesize
<Hobbsee> ScottK: if they dont respond to it, then it's their fault - they are regarded as approving via silence.
<ScottK> Currently I feel like if I miss one out of the several hundred mails per day I get then I get told "you had your chance".
<ScottK> Which is equally BS.
<dholbach> I want to point out how important it is for us to tag those bugs
<ScottK> But we need to have that discussion another time.
<ajmitch> dholbach: great work, did you just create the table with a script using py-lp-bugs?
<persia> I think the general practice has been to let a week or two pass between a mailing list post and a process change.
<dholbach> ajmitch: yes
<ajmitch> nice
<dholbach> hey... can we have one discussion right now?
* ScottK stopped
<ajmitch> sorry, I thought we'd gone onto the TODO list discussion
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i'm surprised you make the meetings.  the chance of you seeing a mail is still higher than the chance of you being at a rotating meeting - particularly if the meeting happens to be at 3am your time.
<dholbach> I documented how to build those lists in wiki comments, that's the easy part
* ScottK says again that he's stopped.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: apologies, i got stuck reading backscroll.
<dholbach> it'd just be nice if you helped out tagging bugs you come across and don't intend to fix in the next minutes
<dholbach> there are lots of new contributors that ask me where they can help us out
<ajmitch> hopefully that RC bugs list is still useful
<ajmitch> considering that you can't delete a comment :)
<dholbach> and it's good to have those lists handy
<TheMuso> I think the rc bugs URL could be in the #ubuntu-motu topic if it isn't already.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Are comments still per-package, and not per release/bug?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes, sorry
<ajmitch> that should be easily changeable
<dholbach> ok, that's all I wanted to say about MOTU/TODO :-)
<ajmitch> I'm sure we can all come up with more things that need to be done before release
<Fujitsu> 'cause if we fix one RC bug in a package, and another pops up, it'll be missed.
<ajmitch> including installation/regression testing
<dholbach> I think next up was ScottK who wanted to talk about the wiki reorganisation.
<ajmitch> ok
<ScottK> dholbach: Once again, I think this is proceeding too quickly.
<ScottK> I have (this time) responded to one of your mails on the topic.
* persia notes that it has been under discussion since Sevilla
<ScottK> I am concerned that we will end up either with further confusion or dead links.
<dholbach> it has been under discussion even before Sevilla
<ajmitch> with the wiki, we've tried several times to reorganise it in the past, and I for one am glad to see that it's getting done now
<ajmitch> it's been under discussion for at least a year or more
<dholbach> ScottK: what I did for now was remove stale links and 'tag' pages for actions
<ScottK> Rather than done piecemeal, there ought to be planned out because if you get halfway and change plans, then it's an even further mess.
<persia> ScottK: That's what the Spec in May was about
<ScottK> dholbach: Are you executing the spec from May or a new plan?
<dholbach> ScottK: I'm through most of the list now and I'm going to put those lists up for review for a couple of weeks before we take action
<dholbach> ok
<ScottK> dholbach: OK.  Fair enough.
<dholbach> what I'm doing at the moment is:
<dholbach>  - review all MOTU/Universe pages on the wiki
<ScottK> I got the impression you are just about to move the specs.
<dholbach>  - use CategoryMOTURemove CategoryMOTUUbuntuDevMerge, etc to tag pages and easily creates lists of them
<dholbach>  - once I'm done, I'm going to ask for comments for a couple of weeks
<dholbach>  - then take action with a couple of Doc Days, where I'd love you to help out
<dholbach> ScottK: that I want to do to and I'm going to reply to your mail
<dholbach> ScottK: that was something that occured to me while reviewing
<ScottK> OK.  So the mail to ubuntu-devel about moving specs wasn't about something you are ready to execute?
<dholbach> no
<ScottK> OK.  Then I misunderstood.
<dholbach> what I want to point out is: this is a huge lot of work and I'm not doing it for fun
<dholbach> it's *crucial* to get our documentation sorted out
<dholbach> we want to have more MOTUs in the team and they get confused by duplicated, old and wrong documentation
<ScottK> I am deeply concerned that more than once recently I've seen people come back from a break with Ubuntu and think things have changed so much they aren't sure if they can contribute any more.
<dholbach> that's why I want all of you to chime in, when I present those lists of wiki pages and let me know what you think
<ScottK> I think that process churn is pushing experienced people away.
<ajmitch> which is why it is imperative to have the wiki sorted out & cleaned up
<ajmitch> hey ogra
<ogra> yo
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i'd say that the experienced people know that it's different - but in some ways, knows that it has to be.
* Hobbsee brb
* imbrandon wakes
<ScottK> Hobbsee: OK, but I've seen people come back and be hesistant to jump in.
<dholbach> ScottK: I seriously doubt that people will be stopping to be a MOTU just because the page they are looking up from their bookmark is a redirect
<ScottK> dholbach: True, but this is but one aspect of the churn.
<ScottK> I guess it's tied more to the meta discussion we aren't having right now.
* ScottK will save it for later.
<dholbach> I think the meta discussion would benefit from being on the mailing list, with clear, addressable points
<ScottK> Agreed.
<dholbach> meta discussions on IRC tend to go on for ages, because it's easy to be mistaken in points
<ScottK> No problem.  Let's move on.
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> any other business?
<Balkhog> hi
<dholbach> hi Balkhog
<ajmitch> nope, I think we're probably about done
<dholbach> ok, let's move on to the fixed agenda items then
<dholbach> time and date of next meeting?
<dholbach> in two weeks, different time?
<ajmitch> we discussed at the last meeting whether to keep the +-12 hours
<ajmitch> does it still work out alright for people that we know of?
<dholbach> how much participation was there last time?
<TheMuso> Yes for me.
<dholbach> as much as here?
<TheMuso> No, I don't think so.
<ScottK> +14, -10 works better for me, but that shouldn't be the driver.
<persia> Can we do 8 hours instead of 12?
<ajmitch> it'll probably work, I guess
<ajmitch> so next meeting would be fri 20:00, or 04:00 UTC?
<ajmitch> (in 2 weeks)
<dholbach> friday oct, 5th
<dholbach> I won't be around on both times, I'll be in Vienna
<ajmitch> getting close to release :)
<ajmitch> lucky you!
<dholbach> so? votes for 20:00?
<TheMuso> 20:00 UTC?
<ScottK> 20:00 is better for me.
<ScottK> Yes
<TheMuso> No, but its about time it suited some other people.
<ajmitch> mmm, 9AM saturday for me, I'll be awake :)
<TheMuso> It also means there is more chance that the minutes duty will be shared around. :p
<ajmitch> but you always volunteer & do it so well! :)
<dholbach> votes for 4:00?
<TheMuso> I don't mind doing it.
<Hobbsee> 2000 UTC is crap for all australians, and maybe new zealanders too
<Hobbsee> which will be problematic if the decisions are only being made during the meeting.
<persia> I prefer 04:00, although I can make 20:00
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: 7am isn't tooooo bad.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you'll have daylight savings by then or not?
<Fujitsu> Hm, good question.
<TheMuso> 4:00 sounds good to me
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i thought it was 6?
<Fujitsu> End of October, I think it comes in.
<Hobbsee> ah, so i wont make it to either meeting, on that basis.
<Hobbsee> oh well.
<Fujitsu> So, yes, 6am, sssssh.
<Hobbsee> hehe
* TheMuso votes for 4:00 UTC>
<dholbach> we seem to have less than a handful of votes for both options
<ajmitch> either time will probably work for me
<dholbach> would it help to ask for input on the mailing list about that?
<dholbach> or to have a timezone table on the wiki or something?
<ajmitch> it'd be helpful for those who aren't here now
<TheMuso> dholbach: I'm happy to do that, as I have meant to write to the list about meeting attendance anyway.
<persia> dholbach: I suspect that part of that is that neither time is very good for asia-pacific, whereas this time is :)
<dholbach> persia: right
<Hobbsee> persia: but who really cares about asia-pac, if you're situated in the US?
<dholbach> so if we do defer the decision we should make sure we have one by the end of next week
<Hobbsee> persia: they dont even know where asia-pac *is* most of the time.
<persia> Hobbsee: Exactly, and vice-versa.
<ajmitch> dholbach: sounds fair, decide by thursday or so
<Hobbsee> persia: no, most of us can pick the US off a map.
<TheMuso> dholbach: Sure. I'll send a mail out in the next day or so, hopefully tonight.
<dholbach> ok good, TheMuso: thanks for doing that
<dholbach> next item: universe hug day
<TheMuso> Do people find them useful?
<dholbach> I added the MOTU/TODO snippets to the ubuntubugday page too (by using a simple include)
<Fujitsu> Does anything ever happen on them?
<zul> Hobbsee: canada is another matter isnt it eh?
<dholbach> I think it'd help if we roll the universehugdays into the normal hugdays
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I can pick Australia (and most of it's major cities) off a map.
<persia> Is there a volunteer to run them?  the updated TODO seems much more useful.
<ajmitch> zul: the 51st state?
<TheMuso> dholbach: agreed
<zul> ajmitch: exactly..
<persia> dholbach: I'd agree that rolling them together makes sense.
<dholbach> rock and roll
<dholbach> for now, I'll remove the fixed agenda item from the meetings page
<Hobbsee> zul: *g*
<dholbach> if we decide to have dedicated universe hug days again, we should have a clear vision for them
<dholbach> ... and people devoting time for that purpose
<TheMuso> dholbach: I'll edit the header when I adjust meeting times, etc.
<highvoltage> is that a MOTU meeting you're planning?
<dholbach> TheMuso: thanks
<Hobbsee> i havent seen the main hug days having much traction recently, let alone the univeres ones.
<dholbach> bdmurray also mails ubuntu-motu@ about the hug day too, so we should all be aware of when it is
<dholbach> ok, moving on
<dholbach> "agree on date and time of next REVU DAY' - Gutsy +1"
<dholbach> I think we don't need to discuss it
<TheMuso> Gutsy + 1.
<dholbach> "agree on date and time of next meeting MOTU Q&A sessions"
<TheMuso> Agreed, and I think I indicated that as much in the header.
<ScottK> dholbach: You can change it to Hardy.
<dholbach> I think I'll run one next week at 12:00 UTC, if you don't mind
<ajmitch> a week or two after UDS for first hardy REVU day
<TheMuso> dholbach: Sure, re q&a.
<ajmitch> once the archive has started to settle a bit with syncs
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> I think that's it
<ajmitch> yay
<dholbach> does anybody still have something on their mind?
<ajmitch> group hug? ;)
* TheMuso will have meeting minutes out hopefully in the next 2448 hours.
<pkern> ajmitch: :D
<TheMuso> s/2448/24-48/
* dholbach hugs you all
<pkern> TheMuso: 102 days (=
<dholbach> thanks everybody
<ajmitch> thanks dholbach!
<TheMuso> pkern: heh
<pkern> Cheers.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: were you coming to slug next week?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Need to see what talks are on.
<ajmitch> alright, meeting over, time for sleep
<TheMuso> night ajmitch
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: -> -motu
<persia> dholbach: Thanks for running the meeting.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 25 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development
<Rinchen> @denver
<Rinchen> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 21 2007, 19:07:30 - Next meeting: Screencast Team in 2 days
<Rinchen> @rinchen is stupid
<beuno> hahaha, ubotu must be broken  :p
<Rinchen> or I broke it with the fridge updates
<Rinchen> Seveas, ^^
<Seveas> Rinchen, what did you break?
<Rinchen> Hi Seveas
<Seveas> hi
<Rinchen> Seveas, I just wanted to touch base with you to see if the fridge feed to this channel (ubotu I guess) is working
<Rinchen> I made some heavy changes yesterday
<Rinchen> I didn't touch the feeds but...well, better to check with you to ensure that all is well
<Seveas> is the topic broken?
<Seveas> @topic
<gnomefreak> topic looks right
* gnomefreak not sure if there is a meeting this weekend or not but monday looks right
<okaratas> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-16
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 17 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 18 Sep 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 18 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 18 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 18 Sep 14:00: Ubuntu Java
<gnomefreak> what happened to the CC meeting? it was in the topic yesterday
<persia> gnomefreak: The topic is subject to waffle.  It's supposed to start in 3 minutes.
<gnomefreak> persia: ok thanks but after looking at agenda it most likely wont happen
<persia> gnomefreak: I expect it will happen, but be a *very* brief meeting.
<persia> Just in case any of the members of the CC have anything they want to introduce or discussi.
<gnomefreak> ah good point
<kirkland> o/
 * mathiaz look around
<soren> o/
 * jdstrand waves
<nealmcb> \o
 * mathiaz ooohhhs: people...
<zul> hello
<sommer> yo
<tarvid> here but already too much coffee
<mathiaz> how is everyone doing today ?
<tarvid> happy to be far from wall street
<ogra> do you expect a rain of people out of the windows ?
<mathiaz> ogra: apparently my expectations are too high today...
<tarvid> the dogs have hit the ends of their chains
<ogra> heh
<mathiaz> let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<Koon> o/
<soren> Let's.
<nealmcb> Meeting started at 10:02:29. The chair is mathiaz.
<mathiaz> After its last week quick appearance MootBot is back on vacation.
<mathiaz> Last week's minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080909
<ogra> mathiaz, ping Seeker` about it (he said we should do that)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu VM builder
<mathiaz> soren: ^^ ?
<soren> Ooh, yes. Big stuff going on ehere.
<soren> Erm... I've clearly neglected to send out the blog post.
<soren> I'll get right on that later today.
<soren> I've got a local version that deploys to EC2, so things are coming along very nicely.
<mathiaz> soren: ok - you've uploaded a new version ?
<mathiaz> soren: and you'll cover most of it in your blog post ?
<soren> Most of the stuff I've done pertains to EC2, but there are a few licensing tidbits that needs sorting out before I can push it to the archive.
<nealmcb> ooh - ec2 - cool!
<soren> mathiaz: Indeed I will. It's mostly written up, I just need to update it with the last couple of weeks' progress and post it.
<mathiaz> soren: great.
<ScottK-laptop> Hello all.  I'm finally not on the road at meeting time.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to write a blog post about vm-builder once it's available in the archive
 * mathiaz waves at ScottK-laptop 
<mathiaz> sommer: still on the track to update the Server guide wrt to virtualization ?
<sommer> mathiaz: yep, I've updated the u-v-m section with what is currently in the man page... I'll update it again once the new version hits the archive
<mathiaz> sommer: great !
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to update the virtualization section of the server guide once vm-builder is available in the archive.
<mathiaz> soren: anything else on the topic of vm-builder ?
<soren> I'm thinking no.
<tarvid> I would like a link on requirements for a host for a VM
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<mathiaz> sommer: ^^ ?
<sommer> tarvid: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/virtualization.html
<tarvid> tnx
<mathiaz> sommer: I still owe a review of the openldap section.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to review the ldap section of the server guide
<sommer> :)
<mathiaz> kirkland: raid section ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i published the blogpost calling for testing a few minutes ago
<kirkland> mathiaz: if sommer has some time today, i'll review the server guide in conjunction with him
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to review the RAID section of the server guide
<sommer> kirkland: sure, can you ping me this afternoon?
<mathiaz> sommer: anything else on the server guide ?
<kirkland> sommer: yeah, will do
<mathiaz> sommer: I guess you're still looking for reviewers for the different sections?
<sommer> mathiaz: I had a quick question about the tomcat-server tasksel... is that going to be listed in the installer?
<sommer> mathiaz: sure, reviewers are always welcome :)
<Koon> sommer: yes
<sommer> Koon: cool, just wanted to make sure
<Koon> sommer: you want a section in the guide for that ?
<zul> sommer: already is
<sommer> I added it to the list this weekend... in the installation section
<tarvid> i presume one of the motivations for virtualization is to limit the competition between a LAMP stack and a Tomcat sack?
<soren> Err... Not really, no :)
<Koon> tarvid: the only motivation is that it's fun.
<mathiaz> sommer: Isn't it too late to add new material to the server guide ?
<nealmcb> along with lots of other motivations.....
<mathiaz> sommer: by material I meant brand new sections
<tarvid> Oooh
<sommer> mathiaz: ummm, I don't think it'd be a big deal... there's been some pretty large updates the last couple of days
<mathiaz> sommer: right.
<mathiaz> sommer: are you planning to write a section about tomcat ?
<mathiaz> sommer: or would require some help on that ?
<ScottK-laptop> Is the server guide affected by string freeze?
<sommer> mathiaz: I wasn't planning to for Intrepid, but I'm not opposed to the idea
<sommer> mathiaz: help would be great
<sommer> ScottK-laptop: yes
<Koon> sommer: I can help
<ScottK-laptop> OK, so this'll all need freeze exceptions too.
<sommer> ScottK-laptop: why?
<mathiaz> sommer: hm - I'm not sure ScottK-laptop is refering to the same thing./
<nealmcb> Hmmm - the top two hits on google for ubuntu server guide are still very confusing, with no link to 8.04.   I'll have to revisit my bug about that
<sommer> Koon: that'd be great, and much appreciated
<mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: there is a documentation freeze at the begining of the month of october
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  I guess that's the relevant one then.
<mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: but now that we're in UI-Freeze, the doc team can review the documentation to make sure it's accurate
<tarvid> sommer - nag tarvid about Netbeans and Tomcat
<Koon> sommer: you prefer me to draft something or that we discuss together on what should be in there and you draft it ?
<sommer> Koon: if you don't mind drafting it that'd be great... I've used Tomcat for some legacy stuff, but I'm not that familiar with it
<Koon> sommer: will do
<mathiaz> Koon: I'd suggest that you branch the ubuntu-doc bzr repo - and submit it to sommer for merge
<sommer> tarvid: if you'd like to add some content that'd be great too
<mathiaz> [ACTION] Koon to draft a section about tomcat for the Server Guide.
<tarvid> I'd like to get a ball of Netbeans, PHP, Drupal and Tomcat running
<Seeker`> sorry about the lack of bot; I dont have access to the server it runs on myself, and I cant always get hold of the person that does
<mathiaz> sommer: anything else ?
<nealmcb> tarvid: a ball?
<tarvid> Which is one of the reasons I had the frail hope virtualization would constrain Tomcat from eating my PHP stuff
<mathiaz> Seeker`: no problem.
<sommer> mathiaz: I don't think so
<tarvid> glob, pile, stack, heap
<mathiaz> sommer: ok - thanks for the work.
<mathiaz> let's move o
<mathiaz> n
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Boot Support for Degraded RAID
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^?
<kirkland> mathiaz: \o/
<nealmcb> tarvid: hmm - what problems are you having?
<nealmcb> tarvid: (maybe later in the meeting)
<kirkland> mathiaz: we now have a question in the Ubuntu Server installer, if you have installed / or /boot on an md device, that will ask if you want BOOT_DEGRADED=true|false
<mathiaz> nealmcb: tarvid: could take this to #ubuntu-server ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: no small feat, I might add :-)  kirkland pats himself on the back :-P
<nealmcb> mathiaz: right - even better....
<tarvid> it is a current but not top priority project
<mathiaz> kirkland: awesome - so nothing is left for this spec in this release cycle ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: except testing.
<kirkland> mathiaz: actually, there was one regression introduced by adding dmraid to the default seed
<kirkland> mathiaz: i solved that one late last night, and colin committed the fix this morning
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok.
<kirkland> mathiaz: i think the active development on this one is officially done :-)
<mathiaz> kirkland: have you closed the bug  in LP ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: there's a slew of them
<kirkland> mathiaz: they have been appropriately referenced in various patches so as to auto-close
<kirkland> mathiaz: the ones i've fixed anyway
<kirkland> mathiaz: i should probably actually do a search for open duplicates
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok. There is a long bug thread also
<kirkland> mathiaz: or related bugs that might have been fixed by these efforts
<kirkland> mathiaz: the MOST relevant ones are listed at the top of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootDegradedRaid
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok.
<mathiaz> kirkland: anything else to add on that topic ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: nopers
<mathiaz> kirkland: great - time to test now.
<kirkland> mathiaz: true, as i said, blog post published
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Tomcat6 server stack support
<kirkland> mathiaz: http://dustinkirkland.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/intrepid-call-for-testing-booting-degraded-raid/
<mathiaz> Koon: ^
<mathiaz> Koon: I've uploaded your tomcat5.5 changes
<Koon> mathiaz: the tasksel is in, thanks to zul. Tested and works ok
<Koon> so on the tomcat6 front development is complete
<Koon> on tomcat5.5 you uploaded the intrepid fixes
<mathiaz> Koon: how are the dependencies going ?
<Koon> there is a security update for hardy in the pipe, a SRU is next to fix other things
<Koon> about deps, we are in a not too bad shape
<Koon> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.intrepid/tomcat-server
<jdstrand> fyi-- security fixes are uploaded and available (for hardy)
<mathiaz> Koon: seems great.
<Koon> the *gcj* + libasound2 packages are pulled in through recommends and are not needed
<mathiaz> Koon: right - have you filed bugs about it ?
<Koon> but that's almost as slim as it can get
<Koon> mathiaz: yes, proposal was rejected for intrepid. Should be shot down in intrepid+1
<mathiaz> Koon: good. Anything else on the tomcat front ?
<Koon> nope
<mathiaz> let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] landscape-client in Ubuntu
<mathiaz> I've been working on fixing landscape-client.
<mathiaz> I'm going to upload a new package that will use a Pre-Depends to make it work correctly.
<ScottK> Why is it even in Ubuntu, isn't it just a client for a proprietary Canonical product?
<jdstrand> ScottK: it's open-source and could be modified for anyone to use
<ScottK> Right.  I said that wrong, in Ubuntu/in a standard install.
<mathiaz> ScottK: landscape-client isn't install by default
<mathiaz> ScottK: there is a choice in the install.
<ScottK> OK.
<kirkland> ScottK: it does contain some useful, open, aspects, including landscape-sysinfo
<dendrobates> but that functionality has been split out so it does not require the full client.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: so the pkg split is still under discussion. I'm hoping to get it working in alpha6.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: upload it as you have it.  We can make any changes as needed.
<mathiaz> That requires a PreDepends change and promotion of update-motd to main.
<nealmcb> is the protocol used by landscape-client documented?
<mathiaz> the last part is taken care of by kirkland
<kirkland> mathiaz: waiting on pitti or doko
<radix> nealmcb: it's not documented.
<dendrobates> nealmcb: I don't know how much documentation, but the client is gpl, so it could be discovered.
<radix> nealmcb: we'd like to have it documented, of course
<mathiaz> ok - that's all I have on the landscape front.
<mathiaz> That's all from last week minutes.
<nealmcb> radix: thanks.  in the past there have been some discussions about how it might fit together with other server management tools.  having a protocol that is documented and some means of discussing changes to the protocol would help
<mathiaz> Anything else to add wrt to last week meeting ?
<soren> mathiaz: Have you in the process uncovered an Ubuntu policy for pre-depends?
<mathiaz> soren: same as Debian - frowned upon
<soren> mathiaz: ...and needs raising on ubuntu-devel first?
<mathiaz> soren: but in this case it seems that it's the best option in the available time frame
<mathiaz> soren: cjwatson mentionned that I should open a bug about it to explain why it has been done.
<mathiaz> soren: with the aim to fix it in the mid-trem.
<soren> mathiaz: Sounds reasonable.
<soren> right.
<mathiaz> soren: once the underlaying issue is fixed, we can remove the Pre-Depends.
<soren> Right, right.
<mathiaz> Let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Drupal install script
<mathiaz> tarvid: ^^ ?
<tarvid> here
<tarvid> I kept track of the work flow I do repetitively installing Drupal for clients
<Adri2000> (I'm sorry guys, I have to run, I should be back in ~15 minutes for the vsftpd item)
<tarvid> it involves creating users, databases, dns zones and apache config files
<mathiaz> tarvid: is this workflow documented somewhere ?
<cjwatson> I just applied http://paste.ubuntu.com/47486/ to policy so that it recommends discussion on ubuntu-devel rather than debian-devel.
<tarvid> perhaps by the script itself http://drupal.ls.net/node/47
<tarvid> I have older svg files built with "dot"
<mathiaz> tarvid: what's the current state of the drupal package ?
<mathiaz> tarvid: we should try to aim at integrating your common tasks in the postinstall scripts.
<mathiaz> tarvid: or may be create a package that would do this for you.
<tarvid> 6.4  and still struggling to update the contributed modules from 5.x
<tarvid> there were 6 minor and one major upgrade in the past 12 months
<tarvid> staying secure is a challenge
<tarvid> the same is true for all large PHP apps
<mathiaz> tarvid: it seems that you have a good use case for the web framework specification.
<tarvid> installing them in /var/www does not improve the security situation
<tarvid> if I knew what that was
<tarvid> I am a long time Linux Ubuntu server user
<tarvid> but my bash skills are modest
<tarvid> I can spot many issues in a shell script
<tarvid> some are easy like checking the number of parameters
<tarvid> I'd like to reuse existing scripts but I can find much to build on
<mathiaz> tarvid: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/improved-web-application-framework
<mathiaz> tarvid: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WebAppsPackaging
<tarvid> that sounds appropriate
<mathiaz> tarvid: you may wanna have a look at these page and provide input there.
<mathiaz> tarvid: anything else ?
<tarvid> simple issues like creating a new DNS zone are hard to find
<tarvid> This may be of more interest in the Drupal world than Ubuntu
<mathiaz> tarvid: that should be documented in the Ubuntu Server Guide then.
<mathiaz> tarvid: if you could add your input to the spec mentionned above it would be appreciated.
<mathiaz> Let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] nagios3 in main.
<mathiaz> Koon: have you been working on that ?
<Koon> mathiaz: no. apparently it wouldn't need a MIR so I'm trying to get ahold of someone that could fix it
<mathiaz> Koon: IIRC there is also the fact that nagios is not in main for hardy.
<mathiaz> soren: ^^ ?
<soren> That seems to still be the case, yes.
<soren> ...which is a mistake, by the way.
<soren> ..and might actually get fixed (magically).
<Koon> hmmm.
<soren> It *has* been approved.
<mathiaz> right
<soren> And nagios3 isn't a rewrite (AFAIK), so getting it promoted should be a formality.
<Koon> no it's pretty much the same thing, it's just that some plugins API is broken
<soren> Oh, really?
<zul> Koon: like which?
<Koon> it exposes more macros and changed a few of them iirc
<Koon> that was the rationale for the major revision number
 * Koon looks it up
<Koon> anyway, it's a very specific case so I'd like to solve it directly with someone with superpowers
<mathiaz> Koon: right - ask an archive admin and refer to the bug
<soren> http://nagios.sourceforge.net/docs/3_0/whatsnew.html
<mathiaz> Koon: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nagios2/+bug/211323
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 211323 in nagios2 "MIR for nagios" [Medium,Fix released]
<zul> those bugs reports should be moved to nagios3 once its done
<soren> Koon: Grab pitti. I've talked to him about it previously.
 * Adri2000 is back
<Koon> soren: that's the one I've tried and failed to reach so far
<mathiaz> Koon: will take care of this ?
<mathiaz> Koon: will *you* take care of this ?
<Koon> that's on my todo list yes
<soren> Koon: Ah. I've explained the issue to slangasek as well.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] Koon to ask an archive admin to promote nagios3 to main.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] vsftpd 2.0.7
<mathiaz> Adri2000: ^ ?
<Adri2000> yep
<Adri2000> basically, what I said in my email :)
<mathiaz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2008-September/002231.html
<Adri2000> vsftpd 2.0.7 has an interesting bug fix for FTPS, which makes it not work anymore with clients like filezilla
<mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vsftpd/+bug/254905
<Adri2000> there is not a lot of changes, and they look pretty safe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254905 in vsftpd "FTPS doesn't work with clients such as FileZilla" [Medium,Confirmed]
<mathiaz> So you're asking whether that requires a FF exception ?
<Adri2000> it does I think, but I wanted the opinion of the server team before requesting one
<zul> it does imho
<mathiaz> It's a new upstream - so you'd need a FFe.
<soren> Not if it's bugfixes only..
<mathiaz> soren: hm.. true
<soren> At least, that's my understanding. I can't seem to find a reference to back it up right now, though.
<Adri2000> there are two "Add option" and one "enhance" in the changelog, suggesting there are not only bugfixes but also a few enhancements
<soren> Oh, that might just be for universe.
<mathiaz> Adri2000: if you're not sure, ask for a FFe.
<mathiaz> Adri2000: I think you've already talked about with slangasek
<Adri2000> yes
<ScottK-laptop> soren: Bugfix only is Main and Universe, I'm pretty sure.
<Adri2000> but, am I wrong thinking vsftpd is in main and the recommended ftp server? and on the cd maybe also?
<Adri2000> that's why I'm asking you :)
<mathiaz> Adri2000: you're correct.
<soren> Adri2000: No, that's correct.
<Adri2000> ok
<mathiaz> Adri2000: so go ahead - ask for a FFe. And then you can work on providing an updated package.
<mathiaz> Adri2000: and seek for sponsoring via ubuntu-main-sponsor.
<Adri2000> okay, will do
<mathiaz> Adri2000: great.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<mathiaz> anything else ?
<ScottK-laptop> Since I was last at one of these meetings, clamav and spamassassin have been promoted and are seeded in server-ship/
<mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: awesome!
<mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: do you plan to have a mail-server task ?
<ScottK-laptop> clamav is up to date with 0.94 and once I have some feedback on testing I'll upload it with the apparmor profile that jdstrand did.
 * nealmcb cheers for ScottK
<nealmcb> (and all the helpers)
<ScottK-laptop> Also Debian has created a pkg-clamav team which I'm a part of and I'll maintain our packaging branches jointly with them in their Git repo.
<ScottK-laptop> On amavisd-new, I got some input from ivoks and I'm going to do some slight refactoring/improvement of default preferences after this alpha is out.
<nxvl> it's awesome see so many new people on the meetings :D
<mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: do you think about adding clamav and amavisd-new to the mail-server task ?
<ScottK-laptop> The Debian defaults are not entirely friendly IMO (defaults to mailing virus detection reports back to the send, for example).
<ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: I considered it, but wasn't sure.
<ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: I thought it needed some discussion first.
<ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: Spamassassin too.
<ScottK-laptop> Any objections to that?
<mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: yop. ubuntu-server@ seems like a good place to start.
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  I added them to server-ship to get them seeded so they'd stay in Main.
<ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: I'll start a discussion and see if we get consensus and make the change after the alpha if one is wanted.
<mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: seems like a good plan to me.
<mathiaz> anything else ?
<ScottK-laptop> Not from me.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ScottK-laptop to start a discussion on ubuntu-server@ about adding spamassassin, clamav and amavisd-new to the mail-server task.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> same place, same time, next week ?
<sommer> +1
<ScottK-laptop> I'll be on vacation next week, so it'll probably be the week after I make any changes.
<mathiaz> Allright then. See you all next week here. Happy Alpha6 testing !
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
<kirkland> sommer: ping me when you have time later
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-17
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 18 Sep 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 18 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 18 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 18 Sep 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 19 Sep 04:00: MOTU Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Sep 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 18 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 18 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 18 Sep 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 19 Sep 04:00: MOTU Team | 19 Sep 22:00: Platform Team
<calc> hello
<TheMuso> Greetings all.
<ArneGoetje> evening
 * TheMuso is sitting up in bed attending the meeting, so he can drop straight to sleep afterwards. :)
<evand> hi
 * slangasek waves
 * evand watches TheMuso nod off ;)
<liw> hola
<TheMuso> evand: I am sitting up to make sure I don't nod off.
<TheMuso> Now if I didn't care, I would lie down. :p
<evand> heh
<cjwatson> hi, sorry I apparently got disconnected at the most inconvenient time possible
 * cjwatson pokes the still-lying topic
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje,asac,bryce,evand,james_w,liw,TheMuso,slangasek: ping? (I only saw calc saying he was here before I dropped off)
<cjwatson> doko is in hospital for scheduled surgery
<liw> cjwatson, plingelingelingeplong
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: pong
<TheMuso> I'm here.
<james_w> hi all, sorry I'm late
<asac> cjwatson: hi
<slangasek> yo
<evand> hi
 * TheMuso is glad its not a very cold night in his neck of the woods.
<cjwatson> perhaps somebody local could phone bryce and wake him up
<cjwatson> anyway, let's get started
<cjwatson> outstanding actions
<cjwatson> Chris to upload openoffice.org3 to the ~openoffice-pkgs PPA without Sun branding (pending an agreement)
<slangasek> (calling bryce)
<cjwatson> we have an agreement now, Chris said he was in progress; ETA?
<calc> cjwatson: not done yet, but working on it
<cjwatson> (delayed by Hurricane Ike)
<calc> cjwatson: it appears i can upload now with the branding as of last email?
<cjwatson> yes
<calc> ok
<calc> i'm clearing up enough space to try to do both the 2.4.1 and 3.0 builds on my laptop
<bryce> morning
<calc> having to nuke a bunch of test vm's etc
<cjwatson> morning bryce
<asac> hi bryce
<cjwatson> calc: so this week?
<calc> cjwatson: should be done by next meeting, yes
 * calc hopes to be back home in a couple days as well
<cjwatson> ok, thanks, please let me know of any delay; I would recommend *not* rebasing on rc2 (if released in the interim) until you have rc1 out
<calc> next week being beta freeze i'm going to try really hard to get both done
<calc> ok
<cjwatson> # Alexander to write mobile broadband MIRs
<cjwatson> we need to get at least one or two other people MIR review powahs; in the meantime since pitti is away I guess I will arrogate that to myself and seek forgiveness rather than permission
<asac> cjwatson: yes. its pending. its what i am currently doing in parallel to firefox sec updates
<asac> cjwatson: how long will pitti be gone? this week?
<cjwatson> he's at the Linux Plumbers' Conference in Portland; I think he's back on Monday
<asac> ok. Ill give you the MIR then as soon as I have it. so we can directly proceed after alpha-6 is out
<cjwatson> thanks
<asac> cjwatson: actually its not a hard runtime dependency as its now
<cjwatson> I'll carry both those items over then
<asac> just build-time and then dynamically loaded
<cjwatson> aye, but we want it anyway, right?
<asac> but it has to get into main anyway, so i dont think that matters
<asac> cjwatson: yes. most likely we want that on CD
<asac> btw, anyone who has 3g can already pre-test it by using the network-manager team PPA
<cjwatson> I have been instructed :-) to get a new phone before release week, since I'm intending to be in London and it's not impossible I might have to get home at short notice
<cjwatson> so next time I get a chance to go into town I'll arrange for 3G stuff
<ArneGoetje> asac: is the modeswitch stuff implemented already?
<cjwatson> ok, items from activity reports
<asac> ArneGoetje: i talked to a few guys and from what i understood the modeswitch should be done by kernel team. i sent rtg a mail to sync up on outstanding wifi/3g issues
<cjwatson> doko raised a problem with OpenJDK's compiler targetting Java 1.6 bytecode right now, which breaks older VMs; but he isn't here to discuss it so we'll have to skip that
<ArneGoetje> asac: ok, thanks. please keep me posted. :)
<asac> ArneGoetje: i updated the bug yesterday ... didnt i?
<asac> at least i asked rtg in there for input
<cjwatson> TheMuso: you mentioned that we might end up sticking with PulseAudio 0.9.10 for intrepid. What are the consequences of that? I understood earlier that we needed >=0.9.11 to match current ALSA
<ArneGoetje> asac: I just saw you modifying the bug title, that's all
<cjwatson> TheMuso: also on your activity report, have you had positive test feedback on dmraid so far? I nudged a few of the old d-i bug reports about it
<cjwatson> really glad to hear that Debian are keen to take that
<TheMuso> cjwatson: We don't need 0.9.11 to match current alsa at all. If we were to use libcanbbera's pulseaudio output support for event sounds in GNOME, we would need 0.9.11 or later, but its not imperative.
<cjwatson> oh, that was it, event sounds. how are we going to fix those then?
<TheMuso> cjwatson: The only real issue with 0.9.10 is settling on a good set of values to make sure pulseaudio performs ok with different applications, other than gstreamer/native pulse applications, as there is a push to send all alsa applications through pulseaudio when running pulseaudio and GNOME.
<cjwatson> (I know you said we needed a new sound theme)
<TheMuso> cjwatson: re dmraid, not many d-i people in debian can test, although they are using my empty disks for qemu etc to help with testing. My changes have been committed to svn, with a few improvements. I need to build these improvements and merge them into our packages and test, as they fix a few minor things in partman-base.
<TheMuso> cjwatson: With event sounds, GNOME 2.24 uses a library called libcanberra, which is providing much flexibility wth sound events, including the ability to use ogg files.
<TheMuso> The sound events scheme is similar to the xdg icon naming specification.
<TheMuso> So I need to modify ubuntu-sounds to contain ogg files, as well as the metadata to make libcanberra happy to play events etc, as well as make a few changes in a few GNOME libraries to make sure libcanberra works as it should.
<TheMuso> Still testing all of this, but should have it ready in a few days.
<cjwatson> what backend would libcanberra end up using? just plain alsa?
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Alsa, which would be directed through pulse when pulseaudio is running.
<cjwatson> oh, I see, so just indirect
<cjwatson> liw: any feedback on system-cleaner so far?
<liw> cjwatson, no feedback so far
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Yes, and assuming we ship 0.9.12 or greater in jaunty, libcanberra can then use pulse directly, which will give us positioned sounds.
<cjwatson> liw: you don't appear to be subscribed to its bugmail ...
<liw> oh, oops
<cjwatson> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-cleaner/+subscribe)
 * liw forgot Ubuntu is different
<TheMuso> haha
<cjwatson> there's two bugs for you at least
<liw> yup, I'll get to those asap
<cjwatson> ok, I can't see any other meeting-relevant items in activity reports, shout if I'm missing something
<cjwatson> the one remaining milestoned bug for alpha-6 is bug 267682; are you guys still shooting to get that sorted out for alpha-6? if it's truly a kernel bug that sounds ... challenging
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267682 in linux "Hotkeys no longer working in Intrepid on Thinkpads" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267682
<bryce> yeah I've still be looking at that
<bryce> according to recent comments it's an acpi-support issue
<cjwatson> Steve makes a good point that the kernel was that way in hardy as well, unless there's something we're all missing
<bryce> if the latest comments are correct (and in digging in a little, I believe them), the kernel stopped accepting acpi-fakekey events for keys higher than some number, which I gather includes the hotkeys
<cjwatson> so this doesn't entirely make sense
<cjwatson> though I don't see the harm in trying a test kernel on sample hardware to try to rule it out
<bryce> yeah
<slangasek> well, registername just sent another follow-up indicating he really thinks the problem is present in hardy too, so he's definitely talking about a separate bug
<slangasek> if someone could roll a test kernel I might squeeze in a reboot today, but I suspect this is a red herring
<bryce> slangasek: ah okay.  In looking through acpi-support I spotted quite a few "hotkeys don't work" bug reports.  So either there's a fundamental pervasive problem that's been around for a year or two, or there's a number of bugs that have similar symptoms but different causes
<cjwatson> the latter is always a possibility with a package that hasn't been tended to all that well of late
<slangasek> perhaps both - but mdz was explicit that this was a regression against hardy for him :)
<bryce> slangasek: how do you think we should go about investigating this further?  Grab a kernel guy?  Or is there someone who knows acpi-support well?
<slangasek> sladen is the only one I'm aware of that knows acpi-support well, but I've had difficulty getting any answer from him about it besides "set it on fire and kick it overboard"
<calc> lol
<bryce> hmm
<slangasek> anyway, I think the bug is going to end up having to be deferred for obvious reasons, but we should still keep chipping at it
<bryce> I can talk to timo again about it
<bryce> I also have hotkey problems on my laptop, although I don't know that it's the same bug, but I can keep poking at that, just in case
<cjwatson> ultimately, I think somebody on this team is going to have to figure out how the hell acpi-support and pm-utils works, since we keep getting asked about it :)
<liw> and then teach a few others?
<bryce> cjwatson: am I correct in understanding that acpi-support is a ubuntu-specific package?
<slangasek> cjwatson: I would like to have this on the agenda for UDS Jaunty
<liw> bryce, Debian has it
<cjwatson> bryce: it originated in Ubuntu
<cjwatson> it was the Thom and Matthew show
<cjwatson> slangasek: sounds good
<bryce> ah okay
<slangasek> anyway, I /really/ don't see how acpi-support's presence can be to /blame/ for these keys not working since acpid should AFAIK still echo the events to its socket
<slangasek> so if something else wants the events, should pick it up that way
<bryce> so then should we ask tim gardner to take a look from the kernel side?
<cjwatson> definitely, once he digs himself out from under Dell
<bryce> cjwatson: or is there a better kernel guy to talk to?
<cjwatson> ask pgraner
<bryce> ok will do
<cjwatson> (tell him I sent you)
<cjwatson> on UDS, I should note that I have scheduled paternity leave over UDS; I don't think it's going to be feasible for me to be about 12 hours by plane and train away at that stage in the pregnancy (or infancy)
<asac> cjwatson: do we have a fall back for wifi on the kernel team?
<bryce> cjwatson: congrats :-)
<cjwatson> asac: I'm not certain, ask pgraner :0
<cjwatson> :)
<asac> hehe ok
<cjwatson> so this means that either my replacement manager will have started by then and can run the show, or else somebody else is going to have to sub as best they can
<cjwatson> I'm holding out for the former at the moment
<liw> "holding out" = "assuming"?
<cjwatson> anyway, I'll still be involved in planning either way
<cjwatson> liw: = hoping
<cjwatson> we have a shortlisted candidate so the chances look reasonable
<liw> just checking, my English often fails
<cjwatson> sponsorship queue: thank you to several of you for putting this in your reports; I'll not spend time going over it now since the queue is getting very noticeably shorter
<cjwatson> finally, I feel like the last week has been doom and gloom (thanks particularly to asac for putting up with lots of Mozilla-related flak). Anyone have any good news they want to share? :-)
<bryce> hmm, been testing a lot of hardware lately, and with the .27 kernel and latest X bits, a lot of issues notably disappeared
<liw> good news: none of my hardware has physically broken this week
<TheMuso> Myself and Jordi from Debian are merging Ubuntu alsa bits back into debian, to reduce the delta there. With luck, we can make at least some alsa packages syncs for jaunt.
<TheMuso> jaunty
<TheMuso> And I finally feel I am getting a handle on audio stuff for Ubuntu, and dealing with upstream. Just got to sort out the kernel side for hardware enablement, but I don't think that will be much of a problem, and, I am getting to like git...
<TheMuso> If that could be considered good news... :p
<evand> heresy!
<evand> ;)
<cjwatson> I'm getting to like git fast-export | bzr fast-import -, if that's close enough? :-)
<evand> heh
<cjwatson> (that's how I'm maintaining ubuntu-policy)
<calc> the good news from my area is that they are now down to 33% outage in my zip code (61% for houston area overall) :)
 * TheMuso counts the numer of upstream projects tat he tracks that use git... Hrm most of them, if you include their subcomponents.
<cjwatson> oh, I suppose I have one: if you're interested in content that the BBC (the UK's government-funded broadcaster) puts out, there is now a chunk of current/archived content available for free via a totem plugin
<TheMuso> I saw the changelogs for that.
<TheMuso> Sounds nice.
<cjwatson> edit -> preferences -> plugins and enable the BBC plugin, then click on the Playlist dropdown and select BBC, if you want to try it out
<evand> Top Gear?
<cjwatson> most of it's audio-only so far
<evand> ah, rats
<slangasek> wow
<cjwatson> no Top Gear AFAICS right now, although my stepson asked me about that too ;-)
<liw> cjwatson, for everyone or only UK residents who have paid their TV license?
<cjwatson> liw: different feeds depending on geoip
<evand> Pirate Bay it is
<cjwatson> it's still running off a staging server and hasn't had anywhere near all the content fleshed out yet
<calc> google has some of the topgear episodes, not sure if they keep it up to date though
<cjwatson> but should be pretty cool once that happens
<TheMuso> There were aso some good music/audio entries for the free culture showcase.
<cjwatson> anyway, that's all I have; any other business?
<TheMuso> I was fortunate enough to be on the selection panel, and was impressed with what I saw.
<TheMuso> s/saw/heard/
<ArneGoetje> Fosscamp: any list out yet who is going/approved?
<evand> What's our policy regarding packages coming from Debian where the maintainer decided to not use a patch system (eject)?
<TheMuso> evand: I thought it was to patch the package the same way?
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: oh, not so far, I should do something about that
<cjwatson> evand: what TheMuso said, just apply the patch directly
<evand> TheMuso: I figured, but I wanted to be sure before I uploaded.
<evand> ok, noted
<cjwatson> I think we're done, then
<cjwatson> thanks all, will do minutes tomorrow morning
<ArneGoetje> thanks... good night
<evand> thanks
<liw> thank you
<TheMuso> Thanks, and good night.
<calc> thanks
<bryce> thanks
 * slangasek waves, thanks
<pedro_> hello everybody!
<heno> hey!
<davmor2> hello everybody
<bdmurray> hi
 * mvo waves
<sbeattie> hey
<ara> hi all :-)
<intellectronica> howdy
<heno> ogasawara, schwuk: ping
<schwuk> heno: pong
<bdmurray> I believe ogasawara is at the LPC today
<heno> right, she may not be able to attend
<heno> the first agenda item is her's
<heno> hey ogasawara :)
<heno> #startmeeting
<ogasawara_> just in time then
<heno> hm, I though the bot was fixed :(
<heno> [TOPIC] Automated bug replies
<heno> Has anyone worked on a meta-can-text?
<heno> I think a note saying the reply is scripted would be good
<bdmurray> Do you mean a message to include in automated replies?
<ogasawara_> that hasn't been written yet - I'd like to get ideas about what we should try to include when we do send these automated replies
<ogasawara_> like heno mentioned - clearly stating this is an automated reply
<heno> if the bug is closed in the process it should probably be suggested it be reopened for a human to read any replies
<heno> beyond that, I don't know if we can predict the likelihood of a response
<ogasawara_> the one issue I wonder about is if the automated reply will be ignored if the reporter knows it wasn't coming from a "real" person
<heno> (I should mention that the agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings)
<ogasawara_> so I think it would also be good to explain how replies to automated posts will be handled
<heno> agreed
<bdmurray> It might help to have it as a footnote to the message too
<heno> some people may even filter on a fragment of the canned text :)
<ogasawara_> I'll try to write something up in a wiki and send it to the ml
<heno> ok, thanks
<heno> we can take it from there
<heno> Topic: Getting QATeam/ReleaseReports in shape for the next release meeting
<heno> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports
<heno> sbeattie made a landing page for this
<heno> I've separated out individual report pages
<pedro_> when is the next release meeting? 26 or 29?
<ara> 26 is Friday
<heno> we have some regression candidate bugs we should look at and also the list sent to the ml by nullack
<ara> so I guess is 26th
<pedro_> ok so maybe there's a typo there at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/20080926 ?
<sbeattie> looks like it.
<heno> wery possibly :)
<pedro_> alright
<ara> fridge agrees on the 26th: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1621
<sbeattie> heno: do you mind if I <<include>> the upcoming report in that landing page?
<sbeattie> akin to having the current agenda show up on the qa meeting page?
<heno> sbeattie: will that be confusing in that you can't edit it there? perhaps add a comment in the wiki source as well to clarify
<heno> but, yeah sure
<heno> bdmurray, pedro_, ogasawara: could you look at the bugs nullack suggested for this list?
<ogasawara_> heno:  sure
<pedro_> yep no problem
<bdmurray> heno: sure
<heno> slangasek: I know there was a discussion about this in #u-bugs earlier - would you prefer we milestone/nominate these in-our-view-hot-bugs before the meeting or just bring a wiki page with candidates to the meeting
<bdmurray> heno: last week slangasek and I talked a bit about the problems with nominations - specifically that a denied nomination can't be renominated
<heno> right
<stgraber> sorry, I'm late.
<heno> bdmurray: what was the conclusion?
 * heno waves to stgraber
<bdmurray> heno: not nominating due to the amount of noise there
<heno> ok
<heno> and only a few of us have the power to milestone, right?
<bdmurray> heno: actually it's all of bug control
<bdmurray> fewer people have the ability to deal with nominations
<heno> so an internal discussion in the QA team before the meeting seems appropriate
<heno> yes, I remember you've pointed out that to be a bit backwards
<bdmurray> right
<heno> slangasek may be afk - let's talk about regressions:
<heno> they should also be considered for that list
<heno> sbeattie has made a lovely overview page: http://people.ubuntu.com/~sbeattie/regression_tracker.html
<heno> many of them have unknown importance etc though - how should we triage these?
<heno> should we do a weekly pass over them? make it a topic of this meeting?
<heno> bdmurray: thoughts?
<cr3> "regression potential"? what's that?
<ara> could it be a candidate for a hug day? regression bugs
<bdmurray> there sure are a lot of new ones on there
<cr3> I mean, how are potential regressions evaluated as such?
<heno> cr3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RegressionTracking
<pedro_> sbeattie: you're not listing the ones without a package at your page right?
<sbeattie> pedro_: hrm, I suspect not.
<heno> sbeattie: perhaps your page should link to the explanation
<pedro_> ara: i'd say no, there's not a lot for hug day IMHO
<sbeattie> heno: yeah, agreed
<heno> pedro_, ara: I also think we need to look more often than that
<bdmurray> sbeattie: where does release come from?
<pedro_> heno: yup
<heno> turaround time is important as we near release
<sbeattie> bdmurray: whether it's been nominated for that release.
<bdmurray> sbeattie: nominated and not approved? or an approved nomination?
<heno> sbeattie: can we get this on qa.u.c and ogasawara, can we in turn parse it and add the regression count on each package page?
<sbeattie> bdmurray: I *think* approved nominations; that is, it would show up on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/[release]/+bugs
<ogasawara_> heno:  I'll need to take a closer look at the parsing but it should be easy enough to add to the pkg stat pages
<sbeattie> heno: yes, and I can have it emit something more parseable than html.
<bdmurray> Could we split it up btwn milestoned and not milestoned and also by importance?
<heno> ah, that would be good
<sbeattie> bdmurray: sure.
<heno> is Wouter Stomp here? (what is his nick)
<heno> I think I tagged many of these
<heno> he, not I !
<heno> sorry, stealing credit there :)
<bdmurray> its too bad there is no record of who or when something was tagged
<davmor2> he did my ndiswrapper one
<sbeattie> bdmurray: agreed!
<heno> Does anyone want to take ownership of the regression list, coordinating with others to get it triaged and added to the support list?
<heno> sbeattie? can you check with Wouter and nullack if they want to help you with that?
<sbeattie> sure
<heno> great, thanks!
<bdmurray> sbeattie: we might be able to check the mailing list for taggers and tag dates
<bdmurray> s/might/should/
<heno> we should probably look at the list briefly at each weekly meeting between now and release
<sbeattie> bdmurray: yeah, was thinking the same thing.
<heno> that covers both the regression and reporting topics
<heno> Topic: Testing day preparations
<heno> ara: has just announced Monday's big testing day
<heno> ara: you're not on planet yet - do you have access to the QA blog?
<ara> guys, those with a blog, please, post about it :-)
<heno> this would be appropriate for that
<ara> heno: never tried
<heno> that too :)
<heno> stgraber: can you get ara set up?
<stgraber> sure
<jcastro> which list was it posted to? I must have missed it, I can blog it though
<heno> thanks
<bdmurray> jcastro: ubuntu-qa
<pedro_> jcastro: ubuntu-qa i think
<heno> I'll be around to give advice on testing day - anyone else?
<ara> me too
<pedro_> count me in
<jcastro> I'm always around
<bdmurray> it'll be in #ubuntu-testing correct?
<heno> cr3, schwuk: how about we run a session on how the auto install work is progressing?
<ara> bdmurray: yep
<heno> it's still very opaque to people
<heno> we are in the process of opening it up, it takes time
<bdmurray> the kvm testing documentation is quite sparse too
<stgraber> ara: what's your Ubuntu QA username ? (ISO tracker or Brainstorm)
<ara> stgraber: areta
<cr3> first, we have been working on adding installer testing which consists of checkbox-log packaged as a udeb which monitors the syslog for particular phases of the installation
<heno> we could run a session or two in a different chan (classroom or u-qa)
<heno> cr3: right, can you prepare a little session about it for Monday?
<schwuk> heno: here or as part of the testing day?
<cr3> the checkbox-log is called from a daemon forked at early-command time which first reports that the machine has booted and then reports various phases
<heno> like the devel week or open week sessions
<cr3> heno: sure, what's on Monday?
<heno> as part of testing day (sorry if that was unclear)
<heno> cr3: read scrollback :)
<cr3> heno: installer testing will not be available for community though
<jcastro> getting people set up with the rsync script ahead of time might be a good idea.
<heno> ara: can you coordinate the timing of those? perhaps we can do one on SRU testing and one on desktop testing too
<ara> heno: sure
<bdmurray> jcastro: it'll be alpha 6 testing though so I'm not certain rsync is necessary
<stgraber> ara: done, you should have access to the blog
<heno> cr3: right, I'm just asking for an overview presentation given on Monday
<jcastro> bdmurray: ok
<schwuk> jcastro: so running posts about how to get setup for testing day as well as publiscising it?
<cr3> heno: will do
<ara> stgraber: thanks
<heno> cr3: It's quite informal - look at some examples logs from open week
<stgraber> ara: http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/add/story
<davmor2> heno: is the idea to get people to sign up to the tracker if so it might be good if we could get a fresh batch of iso's listed for the monday
<heno> a short intro followed by Q&A
<jcastro> schwuk: well, the mirrors get slower as we get closer to release, if people want to start on monday and chip in when they can we can get them syncing the ISOs and registered on the tracker ahead of time
<heno> davmor2: we should list the Alpha 6 (released) images
<heno> we don't do that often, but the tracker can do that
<davmor2> I think it will be best then we get a fresh set of readings :)
<bdmurray> would we get more duplicate bug reports though?
<heno> jcastro: I agree that it's important to show people how to be prepared
<bdmurray> could we link to the alpha 6 caveats to avoid that?
<heno> not such a big deal for this testing day but for later milestones it's crucial
<heno> right, let's link to that on the testing day page
<heno> can we also make it easy for people to search for recently filed bugs somehow?
<heno> 'ubuquity bugs filed since sept 19th', say
<bdmurray> maybe iso-testing tagged sorted by newest first in LP
<heno> I know bughelper can do that, should that be what we recommend?
<heno> bdmurray: many alpha 6 bugs may be reported by the general non-iso-testing public though
<heno> during the weekend, say
<bdmurray> right, the bugnumbers query can be a bit slow but we could pregenerate a list for some packages I imagine
<heno> one more point relating to testing day: Tidying up the test documentation - what should we prioritise before the even and what is suitable for editing during it?
<heno> bdmurray: can you do that for top 10 packages, say?
<heno> ara: what's your view on the current state of the testing docs now?
<ara> heno: I think that the most important page, ISO/Procedures is quite clean. About what is suitable, I had proposed to clean and improve the test cases
<ara> heno: as explained in https://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/Applications
<heno> not all have had the pedro_/jcastro makeover :)
<bdmurray> heno: yes
<heno> thanks!
<davmor2> I've started adding the screenshots which I can finish off once testing is out of the way
<heno> ara: ok, so the how-tos are in good shape IYO and well ask for help with the cases on the day?
<heno> thanks davmor2
<bdmurray> maybe we should focus on 1 type of testing like Live CD?
<davmor2> ara: temporarily I've not added the screenshot to it's holding page I'll wizz through those at the same time
<ara> davmor2: ok
<heno> bdmurray: good plan, we can always expand on the day if we need to
<heno> that gives us a better chance of getting a full test result matrix :)
<heno> let's wrap up
<heno> any other business?
<heno> Alpha 6 candidates need some testing love of course!
<heno> #endmeeting
<heno> thanks everyone!
<pedro_> thanks!
<ara> thanks!
<davmor2> ta
<slangasek> heno: I would prefer that, for bugs the QA team believes need to be on the radar, they be milestoned and targeted in advance
<nizarus> ping stgraber
<stgraber> nizarus: pong
<nizarus> sorry stgraber but is there any news about the next emea cuncil ?
<stgraber> IIRC it was rescheduled to this tomorrow
<stgraber> s/this//
<nizarus> the wiki page is not updated yet !
<stgraber> 20:39PriceChildWe won't hold it today, but will put the new ate on our page and the fridge
<stgraber> 20:39 PriceChild: We won't hold it today, but will put the new ate on our page and the fridge
<stgraber> so that won't be tomorrow either, it'll be when we'll announce it :)
<stgraber> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/09/11/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<nizarus> i was present on 9/11
<nizarus> and PriceChild sayed that he will tray to get new emea meeting this week
<nizarus> 20:22	PriceChild	That's 20 minutes. We'll send a mail around and set a time for late next week hopefully, and get that announced on the wiki page & fridge by this weekend (i'll make sure to email the right list this time)
<stgraber> no mail has been sent to our list so far
<nizarus> so for this week it will be impossible i think :/
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-18
<popey> hmmm
 * popey taps the microphone
<popey> hi Yellow_Stevej
<Yellow_Stevej> hello
<Yellow_Stevej> well that seems to work!
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Sep 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 19 Sep 04:00: MOTU Team | 19 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 22 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 23 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 24 Sep 17:00: QA Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Sep 04:00: MOTU Team | 19 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 22 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 23 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 24 Sep 17:00: QA Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Sep 04:00: MOTU Team | 19 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 22 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 23 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 24 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 24 Sep 22:00: Platform Team
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<ubottu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 19 Sep 12:00: MOTU Team | 20 Sep 06:00: Platform Team | 22 Sep 12:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 23 Sep 23:00: Server Team | 25 Sep 01:00: QA Team | 25 Sep 06:00: Platform Team
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2008/20080918
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2008/20080918
<persia> Welcome to the Mobile Team meeting.  The agenday is as listed at the above URL.
<persia> First item: Roll Call.  Who's here?
<persia> OK.  Moving on then.
<persia> [TOPIC] Action Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items
<StevenK> What was that bit?
<persia> Last bit was Roll Call.  Asking who was here.
<cgregan> cgregan
<lool> Hi
<persia> So, first up: ogra: status of Q1 touchscreen support
<lool> ogra is logging in
<lool> <ogra> I'll do it next week
<persia> OK.
<persia> Next persia to register spec for installer
<persia> See https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-mid-live-installer
<persia> Next: choice of mail client: modest vs. thunderbird.
 * lool made no progress whatsover on modest
<lool> At this point we should just keep thunderbird and revisit modest next cycle
<lool> It's too much WIP tright now
<persia> OK.  Shall we just agree on thunderbird for intrepid then, and look at modest for next cycle?
<persia> Any objections?
<cgregan> +1
<persia> [AGREED] Ubuntu MID to use Thunderbird as the default mail client for intrepid
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Ubuntu MID to use Thunderbird as the default mail client for intrepid
<persia> [TOPIC] Current Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Current Items
<persia> There's a few things listed here.
<persia> amitk: anything you have to say about kernel issues?
<persia> Hmm.  I think perhaps he's not here.
<persia> Next: cgregan: Anything on the QA front?
<cgregan> Just case work
<cgregan> continuing
<persia> Are you blocked by anything?
<cgregan> need a spec for installer
<cgregan> :-)
<lool> haha :)
<persia> cgregan: How much detail do you need?
<cgregan> persia: Similar to StevenK's
<persia> OK.
<cgregan> Also, I might be mostly offline next week
<persia> [ACTION] persia to flesh out ubuntu-mid-live-installer
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to flesh out ubuntu-mid-live-installer
<cgregan> potentially getting sent out your way persia
 * ogra waves
<persia> OK.  Next up: StevenK (but without any specific items for discussion: very confusing agenda)
<StevenK> Oh, I'm on the agenda?
<persia> StevenK: Yep.  You're listed under "Current Items".  Do you have any "Current Items"?
<StevenK> What about me? :-)
<Hobbsee> i'm sure people can suggest what should be on the agenda w.r.t. StevenK
<persia> heh
<Hobbsee> maybe that he has to fix all the bugs by tomorrow, or something.
<ogra> show off your screenshots :)
<ogra> !!
<StevenK> I did
 * lool didn't get them
 * persia points at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2008/20080918 again in case people didn't see the LINK earler.
<StevenK> I reimplemented a new launcher in one day, replacing mobile-basic-flash
<StevenK> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/IMG_2095.JPG
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/IMG_2095.JPG
<persia> Woo Hoo!
<lool> So you got python working?
<StevenK> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/IMG_2096.JPG
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/IMG_2096.JPG
<persia> How much NEW do you need?
<StevenK> So we go from 1,800 lines of C to about 70 lines of Python
<StevenK> persia: Two source NEW, 3 or so binary NEW
<lool> StevenK: what was the issue with pythonhildon?
<StevenK> lool: It builds two binary packages, and only one of them was installed.
<lool> StevenK: Do you provide new .menu files?
<lool> I think it would be nice to define All, Home, and what we care about for menu-filters in our own menu files if we have a serious xdg menus parser
<persia> Definitely.  I'm up for generating .menu files if nobody else wants it.
<lool> Generating?
<persia> Yes, generating.  We'd have to construct them, no?
<lool> I'm speaking of /etx/xdg/menus/*.menu files
<lool> LIke /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu
<persia> Yes, I also.
<StevenK> I think the first step is to get the thing into the archive.
<persia> That works.
<persia> StevenK: Do you want an action?
<StevenK> I was defeated by hildon-desktop today since mobile-basic-flash is hard-coded in a few places.
<StevenK> I'll go through it next meeting, an action probably means I do it sooner
<lool> StevenK: The h-d config files use mbf
<lool> So yes, we need to fix them
<persia> [ACTION] StevenK to get new xdg-compliant launcher into the archives
<MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to get new xdg-compliant launcher into the archives
<lool> I think we need to fix the hd build in general
<StevenK> lool: Right. And we can't rebuild hildon-desktop
<lool> The hack of providing mbf etc. is plain ugly and doesn't solve the real issue that hd doesn't build
<lool> StevenK: You can grep on HildonFile and hildon-file to see what hd is using from hildonfm
<lool> Hopefully not too much
<StevenK> I have two quick hacks in my launcher that provide mobile-basic-flash files, so it should work
<lool> FIlechoosers are easy to replace, it's compatible with the gtk ones
<lool> StevenK: We need to fix the hd desktop build, think of security updates for instance
<persia> Can we even distribute it if we can't build from source?
<StevenK> I guess
<lool> Err we should just fix the build, not look at removing it; we use it
<StevenK> lool: I'm not sure how to do that. I can post my build log
<lool> StevenK: grep has this -r flag which allows for grepping "recursively" so to speak
<lool> it will descend in directories and grep all files for the pattern
<lool> So it will basically grep the whole source
<lool> And so you can tell which files "match the pattern"
<lool> so to speak
<StevenK> I know that
<lool> StevenK: So what would be nice is adding a configure.in flag to build hd without hildonfm
<lool> StevenK: And adding some ifdefs for this
<persia> I think we're getting deep into specifics.  Maybe the two of you could discuss this towards an implementation for the next meeting?
<lool> StevenK: Could you try doing this in the next week and throw technical questions at me if you get stuck?
<StevenK> Sure
<persia> OK.  StevenK: anything else?  Does anything block you?  Do you need anything from someone?
<StevenK> Nope, I'm good
<persia> OK.  Next is me talking about the installer.
 * lool pumps up the volume
<lool> I heard we have working installer in images since monday?
<persia> Bug #182004 was milestoned for beta, so there's a very good chance we'll be able to have the preseeding working properly for beta images.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 182004 in ubiquity "partitioner fails if partially preseeded due to seen flag madness" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182004
 * davidm listens with interest
<persia> There was a report (I don't have the bug number) about issues with installing grub.  I've made some changes to the platform.intrepid seeds that ought fix that, but am still testing the implications thereof, and trying to understand exactly what isn't working.
<lool> So is it correct that we have a working installer included in the dailies?
<persia> I'm currently blocked by the state of the linux-lpia and linux-meta-lpia packages, but have been working on them to try to get something that meets our needs.
<lool> If it's not preseeded, I guess it just ask more questions?
<persia> lool: Yep.
<lool> Cool \o/
<persia> The problem is that it enforces a password for the "ubuntu" user, which is contrary to the behaviour we wanted.  Only with working preseeding can this be skipped.
<lool> Can you just remove the partman preseeded Qs?
<persia> There's also the chance that someone could change the username, which would break the way we launch X, and we don't honor the GDM auto-login flag that ubiquity can set.
<persia> No.  partman fails under --automatic even when you don't preseed it.  IT has to do with the way that partman and ubiquity interact.
<persia> I don't actually want to preseed partman, but we need 182004 fixed in order to preseed other stuff in --automatic mode, even when we ask the partitioning questions.
<cjwatson> yeah, I'll be trying to sort out 182004. I have some ideas
<persia> cjwatson: Oh.  I thought Evan was working on it.  If you're both chasing it, that's even better news.  Thanks.
<cjwatson> actually partman will succeed if you *do* preseed it
<cjwatson> it's when you don't and use --automatic that you have a problem
<cjwatson> if the blocker is simply knowing how to preseed it properly, I can help with that
<persia> Ah.  So if we forced formatting the entire drive (as was done for hardy), it would work with --automatic today?
<cjwatson> yes
<persia> OK.  I'll try that for a few days, and we can see if we like it.  I'll work with the installer team to make sure I have the right hints.
<persia> Thanks cjwatson.
<lool> cjwatson: Do you think this will be fixed for intrepid's release, or shall be best switch to preseeding the partionning right now?
<cjwatson> you should be able to remove the password preseeding without trouble
<cjwatson> lool: I'm reasonably hopeful of the former
<lool> Cool
<cjwatson> we might not get it perfect but we'll at least work around the immediate problems
<lool> ogra: I hope you'll pull the installer in the mobile images as well :-)
<persia> Actually, there aren't any mobile images, for any architectures, but let's get to that in the next items.
<persia> I'm done.
<ogra> lool, absolutely :)
<persia> Next up is lool, who is also confusingly listed in the agenda without any specific items.
<lool> I think it's just the status reports which we wanted to move on top of the agenda
<ogra> but please note that my image build wont happen before monday, i simply wont find the time before sunday to work on the patches for livecd-rootfs and for StevenK's wrapper
<lool> Anyway, status is I spent a lot of time on elisa which is looking great
<lool> I'd love if we could use it, but there's a catch
<lool> it requires GL
<persia> That's less than ideal for a number of devices :)
<lool> So it's going to be problematic for poulsbo and virtual images
<lool> I guess it's a non issue for intel chips though
<ogra> lool, perfect for ubuntu-mobile then :)
<lool> I also spent time on misc hardy stuff and am at OSIM and maemo summit this week
<ogra> the launcher currently requires GL anyway
<lool> So not much is going to be listed in my AR
<lool> I have many high priority stuff to fix for hardy and intrepid
<ogra> so we should probably provide elisa as option ;)
<lool> ogra: Indeed; you need to make sure they interact nicely though
<persia> Well, anything in the repos is an option.
<lool> ogra: I know elisa works badly with compiz right now
<ogra> lool, well, the image is a first shot thing anyway ...
<ogra> the launcher too ;)
<lool> The other options for media playback would be totem and moblin-media
<ogra> and maximus is a metacity extension
<lool> I don't consider vlc, mplayer or xine integrated enough, but they work fine for me
<ogra> cant use compiz on ubuntu-mobile atm
<persia> Given the current state of moblin-media, shall we look at getting totem into the images and tested?
<lool> That sounds good
<lool> StevenK: Does moblin-media still fail to start after my python-hildon upload?
<lool> Anyway, not much more to report; meeting interesting people here
<StevenK> I think it's fixed
<lool> Ok; so moblin-media remains an option
<lool> It's UI is quite simplistic, but totem is decent
<persia> The missing part of moblin-media is the photo app.  Do we want fspot?  gthumb?
<lool> I'm happy either way
<lool> Is antyhing else pulling mono?
<persia> moblin-media doesn't have any icons, last I looked.  Do we have icons?
<persia> Nothing else is pulling mono
<lool> I'm not sure fspot isn't a bit too rich for MIDs; perhaps for netbooks
<persia> -mobile uses fspot.
<lool> No strong opinion here either
<lool> I like fspot, gthumb doesn't really offer the same features, but then pulling mono is expensive
<persia> I'd prefer gthumb for -mid just for the reduced depedencies, but I'm on a likely useless quest to fit it on a 512MB stick.
<persia> cgregan: Would you have time to test and compare the two, and make a recommendation?
<cgregan> sure
<persia> [ACTION] cgregan to compare F-Spot and GThumb on MID and suggest which to use as a replacement for Photos.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cgregan to compare F-Spot and GThumb on MID and suggest which to use as a replacement for Photos.
<persia> lool: Anything else?  Anything blocking you?  Do you need anything from anyone?
<lool> No, as I was saying earlier I'm done reporting; nothing blocking me
<persia> OK.  Next is ogra, also without specifics.
<lool> Except my TODO list keeps getting longer and it's not going to improve this week  :-/
<StevenK> Hah
<ogra> well, behind on touchscreens, but done with the Q1 keyboard remapping
 * lool would like to report that ogra has been smoking; it's very bad for his health
 * ogra still hopes anyone can test that apart from himself 
<ogra> two cigarettes today !
<ogra> come on
<lool> ogra: You might mention this critical text rendering bug you have with -mobile
<persia> ogra: I think we need images.  Any objections if I generate -mobile live images?
<lool> ogra: Do you have a bug id?
<ogra> yeah, the mobile desktop is largely done, still needs a patch i only have locally for the netbook-launche and has issues with font rendering atm
<lool> persia: You have cdimage access?
<persia> lool: No, but I have been reading all the relevant code closely recently, and so can probably put together the set of changes required fairly quickly.
<persia> Turning code that generates images into cdimage images is a simpler matter.
<ogra> lool, no, but there is one open, i have to look it up
<lool> ogra: Ok, good that it's file
<lool> *filed
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> njpatel is aware of it and ties to fix it before release
<ogra> i'll bug him next week again
<lool> persia: Ok; ogra has a lot of time between cigarettes and has cdimage access and knowledge (per cmpc work)
<ogra> ppppft
 * ogra decides to go for a smoke after the meeting ... all these mentioning of cigarettes ... 
<persia> OK.  I won't generate -mobile images then :)
<lool> persia: I'd be tempted to see you work on critical installer issues prior to mobile images, but that's probably just me
<lool> It's not like we in the team feel like we can help on installer issues much; at least I feel like it would take me some hours or a day to grasp where you're stuck and start working on fixes
<persia> I think that's just you.  The only "critical" issue is beyond me, and I'll prepare a workaround in the next day or so.
<ogra> the mobile images are trivial to get, its really only copying the lines of -mid in livecd-rootfs
<persia> Yeah.  Just didn't know where you were for time.
<lool> Where who was for what?
<ogra> what ?
<lool> persia: Could you rephrase your last line?
<persia> ogra: I agree that the image generation change is relatively trivial, I just wasn't sure if you would have time to complete it in the next day or two.
<lool> 6 minutes warning
<persia> Right.
<persia> ogra: Anything else?  Anything blocking you?  Do you need anything from anyone?
<ogra> persia, i will prepare it on sunday
<ogra> nothing from the top of my head ...
 * lool just realized we don't have a status report for davidm 
<ogra> the conference is slightly distracting from work here
<lool> We should take some time to ask him how things are going like for the rest of us
<persia> lool: Add it to the agenda next time :)
<ogra> yeah
<lool> I will
<persia> Anyway, moving on
<ogra> make him type on the n800 :)
<persia> [TOPIC] Everything else
<lool> *10
<MootBot> New Topic:  Everything else
<persia> Anyone have anything else they want to discussi?
<lool> Germans are crazy
 * ogra sees davidm starting to type
<persia> That's not really on-topic for this meeting :)
<lool> ogra: It will take a while with the tiny keyboard :-P
<ogra> not as crazy as the french :)
<MacSlow> lool, maybe ... but I always try not to be ;)
<ogra> yeah
<lool> persia: "everything else" sounded pretty largely inclusive
<persia> lool: Well, yeah.  It's still supposed to be constrained by "Mobile Team Meeting".
<lool> Ah right
<lool> But we're almost in the desktop team meeting, we need some kind of transition
<lool> See MacSlow picked it up
<persia> ian_brasil mentioned some ideas for theme changing in IRC, but I've not heard of a specific patch yet.
<ogra> well, lool could put that comment under "conference report" :)
<lool> Anyway, thanks for chairing, persia:
<lool> s/:/!
<davidm> the show is going well 1/2 of the people are interested in arm ubuntu which we don't currently have.
<persia> Right.  Ending the meeting then.
<davidm> #endmeeting
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:58.
<ogra> not so fast, david needs a minute per sentence :)
<lool> I wonder what ogra will do in the 2 extra minutes
<lool> haha
 * lool disappears again &
<persia> ogra: The trick to using a MID to participate in an IRC meeting is to have a large text buffer from which one can cut & paste.
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> i usually do that
<MacSlow> re
<davidm> #endmeeting
<persia> davidm: I already did, and you can't because you're not chairing
<ogra> persia, he's playing with the up arrow key :)
<persia> Ah!
<StevenK> Heh
<davidm> :-)
<davidm> the N810 is very nice
<davidm> but hard to type on, no touch typing!
<davidm> thumbs are even hard to use
<persia> OK.  Who's here for the Java meeting?
<Koon> o/
<persia> Hmm.  Let's wait a bit then and see if anyone else shows up.
<persia> Well, apparently not.
<persia> OK.  Getting started then.
<persia> Roadmap review:
<persia> robilad and slytherin don't appear to be present, and Koon has a special agenda item about maven, so I think there's nothing special here.
<persia> Next up: Koon, with Discuss KISS alternative design from MavenSupportSpec
<Koon> hmm. that agenda item might date back from last week's meeting
<persia> That's what I thought.  I remember discussing it last week.
<Koon> anyway, I had an action point about it, start a bootstrap analysis
<Koon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/MavenKissBootstrap
<Koon> I started it, this is the very first steps
 * Koon reposts url for slytherin
<Koon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/MavenKissBootstrap
<Koon> that doesn't look like so many packages to do
<Koon> but there is still some bootstrap ordering to do. Like is it necessary to have maven-compiler-plugin to build maven-compiler-plugin
<persia> What do the colors mean?
<Koon> green means in the repositories
<Koon> red means not in
<Koon> on the version number, green means probably ok
<Koon> yellow means potentially too different from required version
<Koon> (and yes, running a simple compile makes maven download three different version of plexus-utils)
<Koon> I mean... 4 different versions :)
<persia> RIght.  4 different versions of plexus-utils is right out :)
<Koon> so it's a finite number, but I'm not sure you can bootstrap it from source
<Koon> I don't really get how to build maven-compiler-plugin
<Koon> I need to push that analysis a little further
<persia> So it's about 30 packages we need, and once we have them, we may need some bootstrapping to get them all built against themselves?
<Koon> persia: i'm not exactly sure what's acceptable in that area (circular build deps)
<persia> Circular build deps are bad, and should be avoided.
<persia> When it's not possible to work around them, one generates a special bootstrap version of a package that "builds" in a clean environment, and uses that to build enough to be able to build a clean package, and then uses that to rebuild the deps, etc. until everything built is clean.
<Koon> persia: you should still avoid to build A with a A build dep, I suppose
<persia> Most critically, one wants to minimise the number of "bootstrapping" packages so that the majority is actually built cleanly.  As such, the special bootstrapping package may not closely resemble the final form of that package.
<persia> Koon: Building A with A as a build-dep is undesireable, but sometimes hard to work around (consider ghc6 or gcc).
<Koon> anyway, more noext week
<persia> Having A build-dep on B and C and B build-dep on A and C and C build-dep on A and B is considerably worse.
<persia> For 30 packages, we'll probably need to find some strategy to get them working: maybe hack the build systems all to use ant for a first run, and then go back to upstream build systems and rebuild, or some such.
<Koon> i'm pretty sure we can emulate what maven does for those
<persia> Personally, given the number already present, I'm fairly confident we can find a way to build most of it with the existing tools, and then use this stack to build other things.
<Koon> yes
<persia> That avoids recursive bootstrapping.
<persia> OK.  slytherin: we skpped MoveToUniverse earlier.  I notice there are still 10 bugs listed on the wiki page.  Are any of them critical for beta, or are we basically done for intrepid?
<slytherin> persia: done as in I am not going to log any more bugs. I am just continuing work on existing ones.
<slytherin> I will probably convert few FFE bugs to simply "compile with openjdk' bugs.
<persia> OK.  Are any of the existing bugs stuck, or are they all going fairly smoothly?
<slytherin> going fine.
<persia> OK great.
<persia> Anyone have anything else to raise, or shall we close the meeting?
<Koon> just a thing
<persia> Yes?
<Koon> openjdk in alpha6 has different versions for amd64 and i386
<Koon> amd64 failed to build for some reason
<Koon> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/openjdk-6/6b12~pre1-0ubuntu3
<persia> Failed on sparc as well, which is somewhat unexpected.
<Koon> I'm not sure what the safeguards are to avoid this in a more... definitive release
<Koon> because on testing I get different results depending on arch
<Koon> (the depends for -ubuntu2 are much heavier than for -ubuntu3
<Koon> ans that's... undesirable :)
<Koon> an amd64 failed build doesn't prevent the i386 package to go to the archive and then on the CD ?
<persia> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/intrepid_outdate.html and http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/intrepid_outdate.html are the current safeguards.
<persia> These lists need to be reviewed and cleared.
<persia> Mind you, those are only for main.  Production of similar lists for universe and multiverse is being investigated, but may not be ready for intrepid release.
<Koon> ok, was just a little worried when I saw that :)
<persia> No, there's no such block: it's expected that all such situations like that can be fixed.
<persia> segfault during documentation construction!  My, that's annoying.
<persia> Has anyone tried a local build to see if it's transient?
<slytherin> local build of openjdk? you are kidding right? :-)
<Koon> hmm. building openjdk is not... light :)
<Koon> my VMs don't have enough RAM, tbh
<Koon> they start swapping and hell breaks
<persia> I wasn't kidding.  I'd also recommend building in a chroot, rather than in a VM.
<Koon> (my VM runs a pbuilder chroot)
<slytherin> I don't have amd64 machine or I would have tried it.
<persia> And I'm typically running too many VMs to also run that big a compile.  I suppose we'll hope doko can fix it then.
<persia> OK.  Anything else?
<Koon> nope
<slytherin> I have one thing to say
<slytherin> do we plan to test any frequently used java apps with openjdk. ex. azureus
<persia> We've not identified any testing plans as a team.  Do you think we ought organise some as we near release?
<slytherin> yes, probably after beta. But I am not sure what all apps we should test.
<persia> Do we have anything other than the browser plugin that is destined for any of the CDs?
<persia> Koon: Did tomcat make a CD?
<Koon> There is tomcat-server tasksel on the server Cd
<slytherin> cool
<Koon> I'm in the process of plugging a test case into iso.qa.ubuntu.com
 * persia checks the livecd manifest again
<Koon> (that's why I was concerned about extra deps on the amd64 cd ;)
<persia> Hmm.  LiveCD doesn't even ship the browser plugin.
<persia> OK.  I claim testing tomcat is the priority.  azureus might be a good second test.  Any other packages that would be release-critical if they didn't work?
<slytherin> persia: what is size of Live CD? browser plugin will need jre also so don't think tehy will fit on CD.
 * slytherin has to go for meeting.
<persia> slytherin: Indeed.
<persia> OK.  Anything else to raise?
<persia> OK.  Ending the meeting then.
<persia> Koon: please share how we can test tomcat for the next meeting
<persia> slytherin: Please organise some test cases for azureus so we can get it tested.
<persia> Have a good week everyone.
<Koon> ok
<Arc> has anyone heard anything about the EMEA membership meeting reschedule?
<stgraber> Arc: no planed date yet, sorry.
<Arc> so I guess it's not going to be this week after all
<leoquant> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 19 Sep 04:00: MOTU Team | 19 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 22 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 23 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 24 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 24 Sep 22:00: Platform Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-20
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 23 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 24 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 24 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 25 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 25 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team
<creamdawg> ï»¿join #meat
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-21
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 24 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 24 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 25 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 25 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 25 Sep 14:00: Ubuntu Java
<artir> join #ubuntu-desktop
<artir>  /join #ubuntu-desktop
<nathangrubb> the meeting's in like 30 minutes right?
<edavidburg> I believe so
<nathangrubb> Joeb454: you know you aren't allowed in here ;)
<Joeb454> orly?
<nathangrubb> ya rly
<nathangrubb> go back to your cage
<p_quarles> this is why we can't have nice things
<nathangrubb> LOL
<edavidburg> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/zeonzumdeikun/why_we_cant_have_nice_things.jpg
<nathangrubb> edavidburg: I believe p_quarles linked to that once
<edavidburg> I believe I just linked to that again
<edavidburg> hello
<forumsmatthew> greetings, all
<nathangrubb> hi forumsmatthew
<ubuntugeek> hi
<nathangrubb> whoa the meeting starts in like 5 minutes appaently
<edavidburg> It does
<nathangrubb> *apparently
<nathangrubb> hello ubuntugeek
<ubuntugeek> Hey nathan
<ubuntugeek> Hey matthew
 * Rocket2DMn reports in
<ubuntugeek> Hey rocket
<edavidburg> I should probably start paying attention then
<scaredpoet> yup
<Rocket2DMn> hey u-g
<nathangrubb> hey Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> hi
<forumsmatthew> are u-g and I the only FC members here so far?
<nathangrubb> hey xhhux
<edavidburg> Looks like it
<[xhhux]> hallo grubby
<nathangrubb> forumsmatthew: apparently
<forumsmatthew> okay, I'll idle while we wait for at least one more...and see if I can give a nudge or two
<ubuntugeek> I see Mike and John on gchat
<ubuntugeek> Speaking of Mike
<forumsmatthew> lol
<ubuntugeek> Hey mike
<nathangrubb> hey Technoviking
<forumsmatthew> Mike!!
<Technoviking> hiya
<nathangrubb> aaaaaaaaaa
<nathangrubb> I almost just pasted a password in here
<nathangrubb> :|
<edavidburg> Try it again
<nathangrubb> edavidburg: lol
<forumsmatthew> don't worry, all we see is ********
<forumsmatthew> see?
<Rocket2DMn> its ok nathangrubb it will appear as starts
<Rocket2DMn> stars*
<nathangrubb> eh not really
<edavidburg> hunter2
<Rocket2DMn> thats a classic bash.org one
<p_quarles> forumsmatthew: shut up I hack you
<forumsmatthew> lol
 * nathangrubb thought you were serious for a minute
<forumsmatthew> do you need my IP?
<p_quarles> :)
<nathangrubb> dialup is painful as I've said to edavidburg about 5 times
<nathangrubb> p_quarles: it's 127.0.0.1
<Technoviking> try to hack me, my IP is 127.0.0.1
<Rocket2DMn> wow nathangrubb your desktop looks just like mine!
<ubuntugeek> Alrightly folks shall we get started?
<Rocket2DMn> how long do these meetings usually last?
<ubuntugeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<forumsmatthew> let's get started
<Rocket2DMn> is kiwi showing up?
<ubuntugeek> First up.. Policies and future of OMGPP forum
<edavidburg> Aha.
<nathangrubb> edavidburg: pay attention
<edavidburg> I am
<ubuntugeek> There has been discussion about the OMGPP forum as of late, controversy etc. The question stands do we need a forum like this in UF.
<edavidburg> I think it helps the feel of a community
<forumsmatthew> I was one of the primary proponents of creating the section when we started it
<forumsmatthew> I am not so sure now
<edavidburg> But there are alternatives to hosting is on UF.org.... *cough*
<ubuntugeek> Take into consideration that the OMGPP takes alot of resources and doesn't really represent what the forum is about. We have a general cafe area for off-topic stuff.
<forumsmatthew> The cafe is important, I think, because we are more than a mere tech support forum, we are a community
<ubuntugeek> edavidburg: that is correct
<nathangrubb> ubuntugeek: the cafe seems to be more geared towards linux
<forumsmatthew> but, we have prioritized the tech side
<forumsmatthew> and that needs to be the focal point of our time and energies
<forumsmatthew> while supporting community
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: correct
<forumsmatthew> the cafe doesn't have to be linux related, just light hearted and not really controversial
<Rocket2DMn> OPP takes a lot of time to moderate and much of the crowd that hands out there is not participating in the rest of the forum regularly.  They tend to be a small, but very vocal porition of the forum community.  When issues are reported and infractions are issued, it seems that more often than not they take their problems to the Res. Center, unlike users in the rest of the forum who simply adjust and move on.
<edavidburg> I would be willing to take on some of that responsibility
<Rocket2DMn> "free speech" seems to be a major issue, and it is difficult for the volunteering moderators to determine where to draw the line on agression in OPP
<ubuntugeek> Rocket2DMN
<Joeb454> free speech can never exist on a moderated forum, I think some people have trouble understanding that
<Joeb454> hi by the way :)
<ubuntugeek> You are right, it would be alot easier if the forums turned its focus to the technical aspects of the distro then catering to a small portion of people who want to be controversial.
<nathangrubb> hey Joeb454, and yes, people in OMGPP seem to complain alot in the res center
<Technoviking> maybe we should state once a thread is closed in OMGPP it will not be re-opened
<forumsmatthew> We have had to revisit the rules and moderation of this section of the forums numerous times. We have tried a lot of things. I'm out of ideas
<ubuntugeek> I am going to propose that we shutdown the OMGPP forum, we will leave the cafe open and it will continue to provide a general off-topic non-contraversial area for discussion. I think we will have no problem providing a few links to other forums that are in the nature of the OMGPP for a short period of time.
<p_quarles> Joeb454: the issue is less one of free speech than one of perceived "fairness" -- this is where people begin to feel slighted, rightly or wrongly, and what has been incredibly difficult to address in a way that satisfies anyone
<edavidburg> Technoviking: then what's the point of the Res center?
<Rocket2DMn> I'm glad you agree.  From a personal standpoint, when I was invited to help moderate the forums, I hopped on board to hel pkeep the Ubuntu Forums running smoothly, not to moderate poliitcal/religious/etc arguments
<nathangrubb> edavidburg: the res center isn't just for omgpp
<Technoviking> edavidburg: for problem in the other areas of the forums
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, I am going to support the idea
<forumsmatthew> the Res Center is designed to be a place to deal with issues from the entire forums community, not just one section
<forumsmatthew> it has been used, effectively, by people who have had legitimate complaints on many occasions
<edavidburg> like me :)
<ubuntugeek> As of late the OMGPP forum has kind of overrun the res center.
<Rocket2DMn> I was originally in favor of simply adjusting OPP to be more professional through changing the name, ditching the text color, and adjusting the rules, but it seems that any incarnation of the backyward/OPP is going to create problems
<forumsmatthew> it has simply been used a lot more because of drama from OMGPP
<Technoviking> i do feel if OMGPP closed down, the tome of the cafe and other areas will change for the worse
<edavidburg> Technoviking: I think if there were offsite links to help the transtition that would be minimized
<ubuntugeek> technoviking: probably, but we will make adjustments and people will need to understand
<forumsmatthew> Technoviking, I share the concern, but in those areas we have clear rules as to what is and is not permissible, and rules that are not as easily argued about "but, this means..."
<ubuntugeek> edavidburg: exactly
<nathangrubb> and there are already many omgpp regulars on nomgpp
<p_quarles> Technoviking: that is why I think we need to make certains topics (e.g., my religion is better than yours) 100% off limits
<p_quarles> I think that much of the discontent we moderators face is directly related to the fact that people are allowed to start such topics, but have to be exceedingly careful about stepping on anyone's toes -- and we the staff don't have any kind of objective distance on those issues
<Technoviking> I also feel that OMGPP may have need to go, but I feel there will be backlash
<forumsmatthew> in the cafe, we can say a clear "no religious discussions" rule. Politics will be a little more difficult and we will need to discuss how to deal with that
<ubuntugeek> technoviking: Change is good, people will adapt
<forumsmatthew> many things in the FOSS world revolve around political discussions and opinions
<forumsmatthew> even so, I think we can adapt
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: agreed
<forumsmatthew> and the political stuff has been less divisive typically
<nathangrubb> +1 forumsmatthew
<p_quarles> forumsmatthew: I agree; personally, I would encourage a policy of "politics related to tech? yes; politics of the Iraq war? no"
<forumsmatthew> especially if we prohibit discussions of specific elections, national politics, etc, and keep the political discussions more broad
<ubuntugeek> p_quarles: i'll go along with that
<edavidburg> forumsmatthew: +1
<Joeb454> I'd like OMGPP to stay, but I also support closing it
<nathangrubb> hey jacob
<Joeb454> or will the cafe become an off-topic area for anything within reason?
<jacob> hey nathangrubb (/me sneaks in late)
<ubuntugeek> The proposal is we will close the OMGPP forum on Oct 1, we will allow no religious topics in the cafe, political discussions need to be related to technical discussions. And we will provide links to a couple forums that relate to the OMGPP for 2 weeks.
<nathangrubb> Joeb454: well forumsmatthew said 'light hearted discussions', so
<Joeb454> ubuntugeek, seems fair enough
<forumsmatthew> I think we will need to discuss topics that would be reasonable for the cafe in a little more detail, but something like "try to keep it fun and lighthearted" would be a good baseline
<ubuntugeek> +1
<edavidburg> ubuntugeek: +1
<Joeb454> +1
<scaredpoet> +1
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, +1
<nathangrubb> +1
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<Joeb454> forumsmatthew, I think some of the OK (I admit it's not many) threads from OMGPP should be allowed in the revised cafe
<xhhux> +1
<Joeb454> i.e. the recent thread about the ill cat
<Technoviking> +1
<forumsmatthew> Joeb454, maybe. Instead of moving them, members could just restart as needed
<nathangrubb> +1
<Joeb454> I think that was quite a nice story and it had a lot of people talking, in an amicable manner
<Joeb454> forumsmatthew, that's what I meant
<forumsmatthew> Is there anyone opposed?
<Joeb454> I didn't know how to word it though
<nathangrubb> hey jacob
<edavidburg> jdong: you're late
<jdong> ack look who got sidetracked...
<nathangrubb> er tab complete fail
<nathangrubb> I meant jdong
<ubuntugeek> Great, we have a decision. Matthew since you are so elegant with your words would you like to make the post about OMGPP closing on Oct1
<forumsmatthew> I can do that. It might even get posted later today
<ubuntugeek> Thanks
<ubuntugeek> I brought John up to speed on the proposal
<jdong> sorry for coming in late; for the record I'm also +1 on the proposal
<jdong> thanks ubuntugeek for filling me in
<nathangrubb> ubuntugeek: john?
<forumsmatthew> is there any further comment on this topic before we move on?
<edavidburg> nathangrubb: jdong = john dong
<forumsmatthew> nathangrubb, jdong==john
<forumsmatthew> lol
<ubuntugeek> Shall we move on to the next item?
<edavidburg> sync!
<nathangrubb> ah
<nathangrubb> YAY
<ubuntugeek> Additional default options for more consistency in giving warnings/infractions - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=912676
<edavidburg> forumsmatthew: can I tell my forum about the decision or keep it on the DL until your post is up?
<Rocket2DMn> Yeah, that's me.
<nathangrubb> too bad I can't see that thread
<ubuntugeek> Staff thread nathan..
<forumsmatthew> if you can keep it quiet briefly, until I have a chance to post, that would be cool. This is a public meeting, so it isn't a secret, but if we can confine the comments in UF to one thread, that would be great
<nathangrubb> Yeah I figured
<ubuntugeek> Rocket i'll let you discuss this since its your item :)
<edavidburg> forumsmatthew: alright, mum's the word.
<Rocket2DMn> Users sometimes complain that the staff is not equal and/or consistent when it comes to handling warnings and infractions.  While I support staff members using their best judgment in any situation, I think having more pre-set options for dishing out warnings/infractions will make life easier for staff and more fair to the users at the wrong end of the stick.
<ubuntugeek> Pre-set in the infraction menu?
<ubuntugeek> Looking at the post I think that is what you mean ..
<Rocket2DMn> well, keep the option to assign a custom infraction as we have.  my first post in that thread lists the currently existing "default" options, i was hoping to expand on those
<jdong> yeah, so we have a consistent # of points and expiry time for various common violations
<ubuntugeek> I don't see a reason we cannot adjust that
<jdong> our current stock list was made when we initially set up infractions
<jdong> and the list really doesn't cover a lot of the stuff we use infractions for  these days
<jacob> post #10 has a bunch of them that would be useful in that thread
<jdong> yeah I'm looking at that right now
<p_quarles> another point to go along with Rocket2DMn's idea: sometimes people complaining about an infraction will fixate on the title reason (e.g., inappropriate language) and ignore the more nuanced explanation sent to the user in the PM -- having more and more general infraction reasons could help avoid that'
<jacob> though i personally would disagree about a canned root-login infraction, that is definitely a case-by-case basis
<jdong> jacob: I'd like to replace that with an 'unsafe advice' infraction
<p_quarles> +1 jacob
<ubuntugeek> I'll post #10 here for everyone to see
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Inappropriate Language
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Insulted Other Member(s)
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Insulting Post(s)
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Signature Rule Violation
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Insulted Staff Member(s) - Infraction
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Enabling root Login Discussion - Infraction (for those who actually tell users how to do it)
<jacob> jdong: sounds good
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Illegal Activity - Warning or Infraction option
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Duplicate Account - Infraction
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Thread hijacking - Warning
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Excessive bumping - Warning
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Cross-posting - Warning
<ubuntugeek> 	â¢	Spammed Advertisements
<jdong> in addition, I'd like to merge all the "Insulted *" into a single infraction type
<jacob> whoops i broke the paste :P
 * jdong also hits ubuntugeek with that last infraction on the list :D
<ubuntugeek> heh :P
<ubuntugeek> I don't see a problem adding those
<forumsmatthew> I think this could be a very valuable addition
<ubuntugeek> +1
<forumsmatthew> +1
<Technoviking> +1
<jdong> +1, though I think the specific wording needs a bit more tweaking
<ubuntugeek> jdong: agreed
<Rocket2DMn> reword as needed
<jdong> Yeah, we can hammer out the specifics on the wiki as needed over the next week and implement it when we're all happy
<p_quarles> maybe instead of "insulting posts" we have "trolling/flamebaiting"
<forumsmatthew> jdong, +1
<ubuntugeek> I'll take care of the implementation of this one..
<jdong> thanks :)
<ubuntugeek> I'll post these on the ForumCouncilAgenda wiki and we can tweak them
<Rocket2DMn> That sounds good, will you make a post in SCC for us if you want the rest of the staff to post feedback?
<Rocket2DMn> otherwise the Council can just decide what is best.
<jdong> no I think all the staff should have input
<ubuntugeek> Yep
<ubuntugeek> jdong: +1
<forumsmatthew> I agree, let's get as many staff who are willing/able to contribute their thoughts, even if it is "this looks good"
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-14
<stochastic> Who all is here for the Ubuntu Studio developers meeting?
<stochastic> hmm, are any studio developers around?
<stochastic> Looks like the lack of reminder e-mail and the non-mandatory status of the meeting killed the turnout.
<jono> stochastic, maybe send out the reminder a week before?
<jono> ubuntu studio is awesome :)
<stochastic> yeah, next month I'll do that
<jono> stochastic, :)
<jussi01> Im here now
<jussi01> got stuck in a work meeting
<jussi01> stochastic: TheMuso ^
 * TheMuso is here
<TheMuso> But I think its a no go.
<RoAkSoAx> morning
<kees> jdstrand, mdeslaur: I'll go first?  I've still got neon to finish, and the 777 symlink thing to test
<mdeslaur> kees: that's the nautilus glibc thing?
<kees> well, just glib (not glibc)
<jdstrand> glib, not glibc
<mdeslaur> yeah, glib
<mdeslaur> d'uh
<kees> uhm, and I think once bug 322562 is solved, we can start on the sync-to-LP project
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 322562 in malone "Cannot lookup bug list from CVE" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/322562
<kees> everything else seems like it's in place.  nominations was the big missing piece, and that appears to work on edge now
<jdstrand> cool
<kees> I've got one item for the end of the meeting, but for tasks, I'm done.
<jdstrand> shall I go?
<kees> sure
<jdstrand> ok, well, this is going to be a busy week. I've got an openoffice.org and kdelibs update I'm working on. I started on but need to finish a gnutls regression that was reported in Debian which we are affected by (but no one has reported it in Ubuntu)
<jdstrand> I need to update my libvirt/apparmor patch and resubmit to upstream. I'd like to get to it this week, but based on how oo.o is going so far, that may not happen
<jdstrand> there is also a weird valgrind bug that cjwatson asked me to help out with, but again, we'll see if I can get to it
<kees> jdstrand: I can help with the OOo build process...
<jdstrand> kees: well, I have all that documented. I just need to rebuild my schroots
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, well, we can take that offline
<jdstrand> kees: the problem is patches aren't applying cleanly. I'm early in the process, so we'll see
<kees> ugh
<jdstrand> that's it on tasks, but I have two items at the end of the meeting
<mdeslaur> my turn?
<kees> yuppers
<mdeslaur> I'm publishing openssl and openexr in a couple of minutes
<mdeslaur> I'll take freeradius
<kees> freeradius is just a DoS though?
<mdeslaur> I want to work on packaging the apparmor apache2 stuff to my PPA
<mdeslaur> kees: DoS on a network service
<kees> mdeslaur: ah, right
<mdeslaur> And want to investigate the aa-logprof bug
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<kees> okay, item from me: reviewing sponsorship processes.
<kees> I want to compare the security-sponsorship process to the "standard" sponsorship proceses
<kees> the goal being to make our sponsorship work more visible to the world.  dholbach is using some of their process to track how much is happening, etc
<kees> and we don't really show up in there.
<kees> nothing formal, yet, but just wanted to give a heads-up for potential process changes.
 * jdstrand nods
<kees> that's it from me.
<robbiew> that's a good idea
<jdstrand> I only have one extra thing
<jdstrand> we may want to clarify the partner package tracking process
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: good idea
<kees> jdstrand: how so?
<jdstrand> I'm not sure that is documented anywhwere, but I was pinged about whether we will alert partner package maintainers about it
<jdstrand> I said 'yes', but I'm not sure it's been documented, the process, etc
<jdstrand> oh, I did have one other thing
<kees> we're not exporting issues in partner packages yet...  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/opera.html
<kees> but I know we can look them up.
<kees> oh, maybe opera doesn't have any at the moment
<jdstrand> in UCT it seems that for dapper EOL packages, we should 'ignore' them so we can actually retire those CVEs. as it is, nothing will ever retire in UCT cause dapper is there
<jdstrand> kees: we don't have opera anymore
<jdstrand> adobe-flashplugin would be one
<kees> ah, right.  ok, I take it back.  we *are* exporting details: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sugarcrm.html
<kees> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/adobe-flashplugin.html
<jdstrand> kees: ah, so I can just point the maintainers to that and we are done
<jdstrand> kees: I like that
<kees> jdstrand: right, that's why I created them.
<kees> on my todo list is to also publish an RSS feed, but... it's low priority
<jdstrand> kees: cool, I'll follow up and document that somewhere
<kees> sweet
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: what do you think about the dapper EOL stuff?
<jdstrand> ideally, I think it needs to be automated with check-cves
<kees> jdstrand: "stuff" being what?
<jdstrand> 12:21 < jdstrand> oh, I did have one other thing
<mdeslaur> well, is dapper desktop EoL as in "dead", or is it now reverted to the community
<jdstrand> 12:23 < jdstrand> in UCT it seems that for dapper EOL packages, we should  'ignore' them so we can actually retire those CVEs. as it is,  nothing will ever retire in UCT cause dapper is there
<kees> mdeslaur: community
<ScottK> kees: I disagree.
<kees> jdstrand: oh, sorry, I jumped over that while digging up URLs  :)
<mdeslaur> if it's community, then the CVEs shouldn't be marked "ignored"
<ScottK> It's got to be dead.
<jdstrand> I was under the impression dead
<kees> okay, I'll take "dead".  :)
<jdstrand> I mean, if someone really wants to submit a patch, we can process it, but I think that should be the exception
<mdeslaur> ScottK: if that's the case, what happens to all the stuff in universe that depend on stuff that's now "dead" in main?
<ScottK> It's dead too, IMO.
<ScottK> I'd like it if it could be moved to old-releases now, but I understand that's technically problematic.
<jdstrand> if it is not dead, then we need to make sure all of our reporting is very accurate
<mdeslaur> hmm...so do we consider all of dapper universe as being "dead"?
<jdstrand> I have looked at it, but would imagine there are issues in our reporting
<ScottK> If the policy isn't clear to you two, then maybe the tech board needs to clarify
<jdstrand> s/have/haven't/
<ScottK> two/three
<kees> my take was that it simple moved out of "commercially supported".
<jdstrand> well, the desktop is considered EOL
<jdstrand> gutsy is EOL
<kees> so, while I'd be okay with "dead" since it simplifies tracking (kind of), the reality of the situation is that the package still exists, and is still vulnerable.
<jdstrand> the two should mean the same thing-- dead
<ScottK> My take is "Dumped on the community" is not a good plan.
<mdeslaur> so the question is: is dapper universe "Dead/EoL" also?
<kees> jdstrand: actually, that language just suddenly convinced me.
<jdstrand> it only still exists because the archive can't handle moving it
<kees> we have declared dapper desktop EOL, which is the same as "out of the tracker"
<ScottK> Just to make it more fun, next month Kubuntu Hardy is EOL, but Ubuntu isn't.
<ScottK> Good luck figuring that one out.
<kees> ScottK: ooh, I'd forgotten about that.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: oh!
<jdstrand> ScottK: thank you for pointing that out, I don't think any of us were thinking about it :)
<kees> ScottK: it should be possible-ish to do it in the same way we did dapper desktop eol: static package lists
<ScottK> Then I never have to worry about KDE3 again.....
<kees> heh
<mdeslaur> uhm...kde packages are part of Ubuntu also, which we support
<ScottK> Yep.
<kees> ScottK: <random>do you happen to know who to poke about fridge schedules?  this meeting is on the fridge iCal, but doesn't show up on the website.
<ScottK> I'm really not sure how you handle it.
<mdeslaur> I don't see how we can stop support for kde packages if they're in main
<ScottK> kees: Nope.
<kees> ok
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: we'll just need to look at them and see if there is something we can/should do
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: what do you mean?
<ScottK> Once again, I don't know what the policy is, but someone ought to decide.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I mean I don't think we'll solve what is supported or not in this conversation :P
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: ah! well, me either :P
<jdstrand> we also need to look at the language of the Kubuntu release and consult slangasek once we have a grasp of the issues
 * kees nods
<jdstrand> so, dapper?
<ScottK> EOL
<mdeslaur> dapper universe?
<ScottK> EOL if it needs X
<jdstrand> EOL/dead +1 (it's been in all documentation and release notes)
<kees> dead +1, but I don't yet have any idea how to correctly "show" this automatically in ubuntu-cve-tracker
<jdstrand> like I said, the formal policy should be 'dead'. if someone is inclined to give a patch, we can process without USN if required
<ScottK> Implementation detail.
 * kees nods
<jdstrand> it is an implementation detail, but that was actually my original question :)
<kees> "ignored" means we don't care, not "not-affected", so I think it's okay.
<jdstrand> (I had assumed everyone knew it was dead)
<jdstrand> kees: yes, 'ignored'
<mdeslaur> ok, ignored +1
<jdstrand> kees: 'ignored (end-of-life)'
<kees> jdstrand: right, but if one runs ./scripts/madison it shows up in "universe" instead of "main", though it should show up as DNE, kind-of.
<kees> yeah
<kees> anyway, DNE is wrong, so I'm stuck wondering how to automatically show it.  but, not important at the moment.
<kees> jdstrand: you had another issue?
<kees> wait, no, that was it.
<jdstrand> kees: wrt dapper? no. I just want to make sure we fix it in the tracker so that we can a) retire things and b) ensure our reporting is valid
 * kees nods
<jdstrand> that is it from me
<kees> okay, anything else?
<jdstrand> nope
<kees> cool, meeting over.  thanks!
<robbiew> thnx
<jdstrand> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-15
<doctormo> hello
<pleia2> alright folks, time for the ubuntu community learning project meeting
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 20:00. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Workflow and Document formats
<MootBot> New Topic:  Workflow and Document formats
<pleia2> so currently our workflow is: write .odt documents, commit to bzr, release as pdfs
<pleia2> doctormo, BiosElement, can you go into why this isn't optimal?
<dinda> pleia2: I can make some general statements why that not might be optimal
<pleia2> dinda: great, go ahead :)
<dinda> 1. the html odt creates is often not the best
<dinda> very messy
<dinda> 2. bzr can be a barrier to entry for new folks
<doctormo> sure
<ScottK> Can bzr diff .odts?
<BiosElement> I'll chime in and also state a major advantage is revision control can record each line change. Also a consistent format can be difficult to keep.
<dinda> 3. pdfs then add another step to the overall process
<doctormo> ScottK: Not really, it's a zip file
<dinda> ScottK: I don't think so
<dinda> a zip file?  then you really can't do diffs can you?
<doctormo> pleia2: OK to begin, the rationale for using bzr is that revision control and distribution takes advantage of a lot of work already done on tools and places to store in development materials so the whole community can get a tthem.
<ScottK> You can't really do revision control on binary files (like zips), AFAICT.
<dinda> except does that really gain you anything if you can't have diffs?
<BiosElement> dinda, I think so. It makes collaborating much easier.
<pleia2> only ease of collaboration
<dinda> bzr was used when we did the desktop course but we were using docbook
<BiosElement> Also if you decide you didn't like a change you made last week/month, you can find it again.
<doctormo> http://imagebin.ca/view/03hE4BoC.html <- If you look at this screen shot, you can see my "easy to get" project tool for lowing the barrier for bzr and launchpad
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://imagebin.ca/view/03hE4BoC.html <- If you look at this screen shot, you can see my "easy to get" project tool for lowing the barrier for bzr and launchpad
<dinda> but you still have to know what you're getting . . .
<doctormo> I believe that the current CLI based tools aren't easy enough, but it can be made easier and I think we should make it so.
<dinda> seems the issue comes down to what type of contributors you want at this level?
<pleia2> doctormo: you also mentioned that odt makes translations and such tricky?
<doctormo> (I'm not going to get into data formats yet as that is a seperate thing from workflow)
<dinda> doctormo: but it does affect it
<doctormo> dinda: Correct, but we'll get to that, I want to deal with the bzr concerns first
<dinda> b/c if you want easy translations as part of the workflow
<pleia2> I think we can agree that lacking diffs with binary files (like .odt) is a problem and we probably want to go with something that is RCS friendly
<pleia2> dinda: are there tools that make docbook easier to work with?
<dinda> we haven't found any Moodle plug-ins or anything other process control for RCS within moodle yet
<dinda> believe me I've been searching for a way to marry RCS with Moodle
<pleia2> I'm also wondering if we can accept course drafts and then have team members translate to docbook (I wouldn't mind doing a bit of this)
<doctormo> The advantage to using bzr/launchpad combo is that not only can we take avantage of collaberation dynamic mixing but we can also import the text strings into the community translation tools so long as we can make pot files.
<BiosElement> dinda, Couldn't the "course/textbook" be seperate from moodle itself?
<pleia2> BiosElement: yeah, I think we could import stuff into moodle as html - so whatever tool we use (docbook, whatever) we export to html
 * doctormo gives up, lets talk about formats then
<dinda> doctormo: can you use odt files to make pot files?
<doctormo> dinda: Not that I know of
<BiosElement> pleia2, But would that be ideal? IIRC moodle didn't have the best system for managing actual textbook style pages.
<pleia2> moodle will be the last step in this process, once the corse is completed
<doctormo> indeed, moodle is the publishing target
<dinda> linuxchix uses moodle as both the development tool and publishing tool
<dinda> it's simple and low barrier to entry
<pleia2> ah, interesting
<doctormo> dinda: Aye, but development wise, it's got problems with permissions.
<dinda> doctormo: only at the admin level
<dinda> you can customise course creators and/or teachers, any role with custom permissions
<doctormo> dinda: Differences between writers, drafters, reviewers and artists. I'm not confident in moodle as a development platform. I'
<doctormo> m used to better tools
<dinda> doctormo: dunno, we've been using it with those various roles pretty well
<BiosElement> Just to be frank, I think the way moodle manages actual "documents" is horrid. I think it's best to keep the actual course books separate.
<dinda> I make my reviewers student in a development course but the final course is a copied final published course
<doctormo> dinda: It also doesn't help that my 7 calls for internal team training from those that know moodle has fallen flat. Ignored. Since I was the only one developing, I can only use tools I know how to use.
<BiosElement> I'd much rather see a moodle page giving an overview and saying "Read this page (link)".
<pleia2> doctormo: did you read the moodle course that cprofitt put up?
<pleia2> that's what we have for internal team training right now
<doctormo> pleia2: Yes, and from that I wasn't impressed with the tools.
<dinda> BiosElement: then you kind of defeat the whole purpose of having a Moodle LMS why not just a drupal site?
<pleia2> ok, just making sure :)
<dinda> doctormo: your frustration is what I feel whenever i try to use Bzr ;)
<doctormo> dinda: If moodle can manage publication and course management. Then it's useful.
<BiosElement> dinda, Because moodle can manage the courses, messaging, etc. I don't think moodle itself is bad, I just think it'll be a mess to manage course books using it.
<doctormo> dinda: But I'm willing to fix the problems with bzr/launchpad as shown, there is not expertiese to fix moodle problems.
<dinda> ok, so we're back to who do you want writing courses?  what kind of contributor?  only those with LP/bzr knowledge?
<doctormo> Although I'm willing to change my mind, if I can be educated (not just RTFMed) on moodle and it can be shown to provide the same kind of community collaberation.
<doctormo> dinda: Why would you need bzr/lp knowlege?
<dinda> doctormo: very interesting b/c I've heard the same from another techy in regards to trying to use Moodle whereas I find Moodle easy and Bzr the harder problem
<BiosElement> dinda, Your sticking point is bzr/lp. Firstly, it's not that hard and doctormo is working on making it easier. Secondly, I'd question if someone was going to teach a class and refused to learn anything themselves.
<dinda> BiosElement: yet it sounds like no one wants to learn Moodle better
<pleia2> dinda: I think the major problem is that we don't have any moodle experts on the team
<doctormo> BiosElement: that's true, but we do have to make the barrier to entry rediculasly easy.
<doctormo> dinda: What's hard about going into a directory and clicking on "Add Project" and getting all the files? Editing all the files and then clicking on another button that says "Publish My Changes"
<BiosElement> Just to throw this out there, since drupal was mentioned would 'that' be an easier platform to work with?
<doctormo> BiosElement: Requires devel right?
<dinda> moodle already has the custom interface, navigation for basic courses. . .
<BiosElement> doctormo, What does? Drupal? I could probably get it setup if someone would design a style for it.
<dinda> BiosElement: Popey has used it for the new screencast site
<doctormo> dinda: I'm willing to learn moodle, if anyone was willing to teach it.
<dinda> doctormo: this is where the edubuntu team might be called on. .
<dinda> surely someone over there is using it
<BiosElement> doctormo, I'm happy to learn moodle too. I 'do know drupal though if it's needed.
<dinda> doctormo: I'd offer some time but today is literally the first day in months I've had to do any community time
<doctormo> dinda: Proponents for moodle teaching etc etc
<pleia2> doctormo: if I found someone to help out, would you be willing to walk through adding one of our existing courses to moodle and the workflow?
<pleia2> s/our/your
 * dinda goes through her list of Moodle-ites from other open source projects. . . 
<doctormo> dinda: I'm not trying to be a pain, but we can really only work with resources that are available, people's time is just as much of a resource that must be managed.
<doctormo> pleia2: Of course, we have a moodle site
<dinda> doctormo: totally understand
<BiosElement> I'm with doctormo. I don't mean to offend anyone or step on toes.
<pleia2> ok, so important thing - find a moodle expert whose brain we can use :)
<dinda> doctormo: it's just a different pain point for you with moodle like it is for me with bzr
<doctormo> dinda: You can be my guienea pig for whatever I come up with for lowing that pain
<dinda> can anyone think of other projects where we can find a moodle person?
<pleia2> [ACTION] Find Moodle expert
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Find Moodle expert
<dinda> ok, so lets go back to workflow for a moment
<dinda> it really doesn't matter what the original content is written but if you know you're ultimately publishing in Moodle then you need it to be html and preferably moodle-html friendly
<dinda> otherwise you just get a list of links to pages, which could just as easily be any webpage
 * dinda goes to see if I can find an example to demo. . .
<pleia2> http://docs.moodle.org/en/HTML_in_Moodle
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://docs.moodle.org/en/HTML_in_Moodle
<dinda> i know when we tried to copy and paste from odt it was horrid ugly results
<pleia2> good to know
<dinda> we had to have the webmaster add styles to the overall site and that can be a real issue if the server is also hosting other sites
<ScottK> For your Moodle expert, you might want to mail the edubuntu list.  Edubuntu has Moodle, so you might find someone.
<doctormo> dinda: OK this is where BiosElement's new sphinx format comes in
<ScottK> edubuntu-users.
<dinda> I'll take the action to email the edubuntu list
<doctormo> dinda: not only is it easier to get into pot files for lp translations, but it converts to html first and then into pdf/odf later
<pleia2> I think the server is just running moodle right now
<doctormo> BiosElement: Can you explain the process?
<BiosElement> Sure thing
<BiosElement> Basically you create a formatted text file using reStructuredText. You then simply "make html" and it compiles into formatted html files. You can see an example with the python docs.
<doctormo> So far this process is just research, but it looks very promising so long as we can run some contributor user tests to make sure it's easy to use.
<dinda> BiosElement: is reStructuredText a format?  or application that creates the text file?
<doctormo> dinda: It seems similar to writing wiki pages.
<dinda> online?
<doctormo> dinda: except that
<pleia2> is there a benefit to using reStructuredText over DocBook?
<pleia2> either way you need to learn some kind of syntaxing, and docbook is more popular
<doctormo> pleia2: DocBook has not been investigated yet
<pleia2> personally I'd much rather learn docbook
<doctormo> BiosElement: Would you be willing to look into docbook and doing a branch that uses it?
<BiosElement> dinda, I haven't researched docbook yet but I recall the python team doing so and creating their own. Regardless I'll look into it
<dinda> We use Docbook for various things.  . . it's just as painful as anything else ;)
<dinda> but the Doc Team also uses it so that was an advantage for us
<pleia2> yeah
 * dinda wonders what happens when you paste a wiki page into Moodle. . .
<doctormo> pleia2: If BiosElement can learn DocBook, then we not only can get a fair comparison, but also might be able to take the best ideas from both
<pleia2> I've only used docbook briefly in one project, the advantage of it being a sort of "industry standard" is big
<doctormo> All I'm concerned about is that I can make my course modual, I can collaberate with drafters and editors easily and that it will export to pdf files for my physical students. Translations, html output and publishing vectors for online courses are all my team concerns.
<pleia2> I don't have tons of time to learn things, need to consider marketable skills ;) I'm sure I'm not the only one
<dinda> doctormo: docbook does make nice PDFs. . .
<doctormo> pleia2: Sure, do you know of any docbook editors? gui ones? can you combine multiple docbook files into one?
<dinda> doctormo: lots of docbook folks on the doc team,  gui editors - I used Bluefish
<dinda> and yes you can combiine multiple files into one book
<doctormo> dinda: Sounds like we have a lot of research to do.
<dinda> doctormo: where you lost time - as in any process is in the publishing, aka Make step
<dinda> you make the changes in text, then each time you want a new pdf, you have to remake the book again
<dinda> even to change a comma!
<BiosElement> dinda, Make step for what? It takes 5 seconds. I think that's a non-issue.
<doctormo> Yes of course, that's why you publish versions.
<dinda> BiosElement: not in my experience, do a Make, go get coffee, wait, but then my book was over 400 pages
<dinda> and 528 images
<doctormo> yes that makes sense
<doctormo> OK we're comming up to 47 mins for this meeting, pleia2 do we have some more action items and conclusions?
<BiosElement> dinda, I tried it with the python docs and it was finished before I could even switch over to check the html folder. Images probably slowed it.
 * doctormo doesn't think any book/pdf should ever be more than 20 pages.
<dinda> okay, email sent to edubuntu list
<pleia2> doctormo: I think we're set, let's just wrap up
<doctormo> pleia2: over to you
<pleia2> so in addition to finding a moodle person
<pleia2> [ACTION] Explore DocBook option
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Explore DocBook option
<dinda> Can I ask where we are on the Server hosting issue?
<pleia2> dinda: for now we're still up at learn.ubft.net
<pleia2> I think we want to keep moving forward with course development in spite of our uncertainty for final formats, stalling more is bad bad :)
<pleia2> we can always convert things from .odt later
<pleia2> if people want to contribute but have trouble with bzr, they can ask one of us who is familiar with it to upload for collaboration
<pleia2> BiosElement: if you do have a draft of how to use bzr for now, that'd be helpful
<pleia2> I keep giving people the irc log
<dinda> are you forcing anyone who wants to write a course to use Bzr?
<pleia2> dinda: no, as I say, one of us can upload it for now if they can't/don't want to
<pleia2> until we have a better collaboration method
<pleia2> for now we need *somewhere* we all can get to, and bzr is what we have in place
<dinda> pleia2: but if someone just wanted to develop a course in Moodle. . . okay, you've just lost all nontechnical contributors
<pleia2> dinda: but we don't know moodle yet, I don't want to wait another 2 months to do development :(
<pleia2> this is just a temporary collaboratoin measure until we have something better
<dinda> I'm trying to understand where you guys are stuck with Moodle?
<dinda> doctormo: where is the sticking point?
<doctormo> dinda: Don't know how to use it
<dinda> who are the current Moodle server admins?
<dinda> and how does one request that they want to create a course there?
<pleia2> the server itself, or moodle admins?
<dinda> both
<pleia2> bodhi is the server admin, he added all board members as moodle admins (which includes doctormo and myself)
<pleia2> but we don't have a clue as to how to use it
<dinda> Can I request to be made a Moodle admin? and maybe I can help out gettign courses started
<pleia2> I think that'll be fine :)
 * dinda can't believe she just asked for yet admin on yet another moodle instance
<pleia2> lol
<dinda> If they can set me up as an admin, we use next Monday night's slot for some Moodle instruction
<dinda> pleia2: can you take an action to request I be given admin on the server?
<dinda> I'll take an action to be here next Monday evening, same bat time to answer any getting started questions
<doctormo> Sounds good, I'll have the action of attending, remember to send an email to the list
<pleia2> dinda: I just added you
<dinda> we can do it i n#ubuntu-learning for next week
<pleia2> dinda: learn.ufbt.net - login with your launchpad.net/~dinda account
<dinda> email sent to edubuntu list as well asking for Moodle person
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> [ACTION] dinda added as Moodle Admin
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dinda added as Moodle Admin
<dinda> and nobody tell my boss, okay!  ;)
 * pleia2 chuckles
 * dinda can hear elmo laughing right now
<doctormo> ok, i'll continue to see what can be done for lowering bzr/lp access. BiosElement can deal with formats, pleia2and dinda can look into publishing. Sounds like we got a plan :-D
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> thanks everyone!
<dinda> doctormo: yes, pleas continue on that front as well!
<dinda> thanks all
<doctormo> time to get back home, I've been enjoying tea at a friend's house
<doctormo> thanks all
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 21:03.
<gQuigs> community council meeting?
<sbc> gQuigs: I tink it may be in one hour. But the info at the fridge, and the CCAgenda wiki page are inconsistent. I don't know which is the one to go by.
<gQuigs> yea I noticed that as well.. oh well... just trying to see if I can show up on time to meetings :)
<czajkowski> sbc: aye tis a bit confusing alright.
<mez> am I too late for the meeting?
<czajkowski> mez: we're not sure it's on, wiki conflicts with calender
<mez> Wiki says it's in 15 mins...
<czajkowski> Mez:
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<Mez> # 11:00 UTC, 3rd Tuesday of the month
<Mez> it's the third tuesday.
<Mez>  Tue Sep 15 10:43:28 UTC 2009
<Mez> (date --utc)
<lool> dyfet, plars, GrueMaster, StevenK, ogra, paulliu, persia, amitk, bfiller: hey
<paulliu> hi
 * StevenK shores
<plars> aqui
 * ogra burps
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:01. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> davidm: Hey
 * NCommander groans his way to life
<dyfet> hi
<lool> njpatel: Hey
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090915
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090915
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
 * NCommander waits for people
<paulliu> hi
<NCommander> so whos here?
 * ogra isnt ...
<lool> NCommander: All the people who said "Hey" or "Hi" or something else in the last 5 minutes?
<JamieBennett>  hi all
<lool> Hey JamieBennett!
<NCommander> morning bjf
<ogra> JamieBennett, !!!
 * bjf sorry, chatting away elsewhere 
<ogra> welcome !
<NCommander> JamieBennett, !^10
<bjf> morning all
<NCommander> (bahahaha)
<lool> NCommander: Ok; let's move on
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<lool> NCommander: I updated agenda a couple of seconds ago to cover an action which hadn't been closed in a meeting
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to create netboot install for z0 [co]
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to create netboot install for z0 [co]
<ogra> you missed one
<lool> doesn't matter, we'll cover later
<NCommander> ogra, I didn't feel like re-copy and pasting :-P, I'll get it after this one
<NCommander> c/o still
<NCommander> [topic] dyfet to get lxde-meta sponsored [co]
<MootBot> New Topic:  dyfet to get lxde-meta sponsored [co]
<davidm> hey lool
<dyfet> Done
<lool> So lubuntu-meta was uploaded
<lool> By Julien Lavergne
<lool> dyfet: Kind of
<ogra> dyfet, broken though, please remove ubiquity from the desktop seed
<ogra> its definately wrong there
<dyfet> Hmm...it must be inherited then...okay, I can do that
<ogra> it was explicitly added according to the changelog of the upload
<lool> dyfet: I wonder why the seeds are in +junk instead of, well, ubuntu-seeds?
<ogra>  * Added ubiquity-frontend-gtk to desktop
<NCommander> [action] dyfet to remove ubiquty from lubuntu desktop seed
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to remove ubiquty from lubuntu desktop seed
<dyfet> hmm...was not added by me...that was the point of not having an open release team :)
<NCommander> Anything else on this one?
<ogra> NCommander, can you change that action to "dyfet to clean up the lubuntu seeds"
<dyfet> Julian added it :)
<lool> dyfet: Can I action you to fix the bzr URL?
<NCommander> [action] dyfet to clean up the lubuntu seeds
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to clean up the lubuntu seeds
<lool> and get that sponsored
<ogra> i suspect there is a lot of other stuff to clean up
<lool> Ok I guess that covers it
<dyfet> lool: yes on bzr also
<NCommander> [topic] # lool to switch moblin p3a to public
<MootBot> New Topic:  # lool to switch moblin p3a to public
<lool> So I tried that
<lool> But you cant do that
<lool> Because private PPAs use a separate librarian etc.
<lool> So instead we need to copy/move the packages to a public PPA
<lool> Since the jaunty PPA was still used for OEM builds, and it was just before a milestone we deferred
<NCommander> you have to do it manually
<NCommander> sadly
<lool> Ideally we'd merge this with the ~moblin PPA stuff
<lool> Or just copy everything to another public PPA if we're lazy
<lool> We need to discuss next steps with rest of moblin team
<paulliu> Minor problem is the new public PPA have to increase the quota because I remember we enlarge the quote twice for that private PPA.
<paulliu> quota
<lool> So I propose closing this action and we will setup a meeting with ~ubuntu-moblin to discuss next steps
<NCommander> paulliu, just file a question against Soyuz to get that bumped
<lool> paulliu: Good point; that speaks in favor of reusing the ~moblin PPA
<NCommander> [action] lool to setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here w/ results
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here w/ results
<NCommander> [action] paulliu to file question against soyuz on PPA size
<MootBot> ACTION received:  paulliu to file question against soyuz on PPA size
<lool> Well not sure we want that but we will sort it out
<NCommander> That all on this one?
<lool> Yes
<NCommander> [topic] UMR Discussion (Leader: lool) (Time: 15m)
<MootBot> New Topic:  UMR Discussion (Leader: lool) (Time: 15m)
<lool> Oh we have a time limit now, interesting
<NCommander> lool, tired of going over
<NCommander> figure its a good way to get people to self-regulate
<lool> we didn't run over in the last two weeks and first two weeks where we had UMR status...   :)
<lool> So moblin status is relatively poor
<lool> The biggest issue is the port of moblin upstream sources to the new telepathy-mission-control
<lool> We cant build images again before that's done, or we will have to revert to an older t-m-c which is going the wrong way about this
<lool> Apart of that, syncs to karmic happened, we need to proceed with the next round of karmic merges next week
<lool> The more karmic, the less pain
<lool> There's also talk about compliance efforts; we want to start looking at fixing compliance issues
<lool> I think that's all I have; paulliu
<lool> paulliu: anything on your side?
<lool> Nothing on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-moblin except the approved FFE
<paulliu> lool: No. That's all.
<lool> Actually we should file that tmc issue
<lool> paulliu: Mind filing a bug on the tmc issue?
<lool> paulliu: +target at karmic
<paulliu> lool: So I'll look into that t-m-c.
<paulliu> lool: ok.
<lool> paulliu: Over next week we need to update the list of packages which can be pushed to karmic for round 2
<plars> lool: there are bugs against it, just haven't been through the review and subscription yet
<lool> NCommander: Done with UMR
<paulliu> lool: Against Ubuntu or ~ubuntu-moblin?
<lool> paulliu: Just sub ~ubuntu-movlin
<paulliu> lool: ok.
<lool> paulliu: and if it's in Ubuntu, target to the karmic release
<paulliu> OK.
<NCommander> [topic] UNR Status (leader: StevenK} (timelimit 15 minutes)
<MootBot> New Topic:  UNR Status (leader: StevenK} (timelimit 15 minutes)
<lool> StevenK: Hey
<lool> NCommander: You might want to tell people in advance of the leader concept next time  :-)
<lool> So UNR status is pretty good
<lool> All tarballs uploaded
<StevenK> Yes
 * NCommander notes the leader concept was invited like ten minutes ago
<lool> I think we're uptodate with seed changes too
<StevenK> The livefses are buildable, no real OMGKITTENS bugs, etc
<lool> What's upcoming is finishing various DX stuff as new tarball releases
 * ogra thought he saw lool requesting the leader concept yesterday ... but i might misremember 
<lool> I worked with dpm on the translations issue this morning and it's sorted out, but we need a new langpack upload
<lool> ogra: Really?  Wow
<lool> ogra: I dont recall it at all
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<lool> Pretty much empty
<ogra> my psycic abilities again ... damend ... didnt want to reveal that here :)
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: Some bugs in https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unr are Critical; should we track them in Ubuntu?
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: Problem is that the ubuntu/ or ubuntu/karmic lists we use dont cover the bugs in non-Ubuntu projects such as the upstream UNR projects; it seems the intent was for us to see the Critical bugs there bug we dont track them
<plars> lool: possibly, I'll try to carve out some more triage time today
<lool> plars: Basically just use Also affect if the bug is confirmed and relevant for release tracking, and target to karmic
<plars> lool: I can't target them though, need your help with that
<lool> (So that it gets on the first list)
<lool> plars: Ok; we should get you that ability
<lool> plars: lets do it after the meeting
<lool> Anything else for UNR?
<lool> njpatel: From you perhaps?
<lool> I think njpatel is on leave
<njpatel> (i'm unwell, sorry)
<njpatel> lool: nothing from UNR, just some bugs targetted for beta...all in hand
<lool> (njpatel: Ack; didn't want to mention sick leave, so I just said leave)
<lool> njpatel: Thanks
<lool> StevenK: Anything else?
<njpatel> :)
<lool> NCommander: Let's move on
<NCommander> [topic] Specification Review and Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review and Discussion
<lool> [link] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
 * ogra just fixed the link on the agenda
<lool> So the page is only updated daily nowadays
<lool> So it's slighlty out of date
<lool> I POSTPONED a bunch of stuff
<lool> (BTW folks it's POSTPONED, not DEFERRED)
<lool> I marked a bunch of specs as Implemented when most work had been done
<lool> e.g. when only "Test foo: TODO" items remained
<ogra> ++
<lool> [link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+specs?searchtext=mobile%2Bkarmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+specs?searchtext=mobile%2Bkarmic
<ogra> plars !
<lool> plars: I didnt update your specs but the two mobile-qa-karmic-* should move to beta available pretty soon, otherwise even if we have testplans we wont have the time to fix things before release
<lool> ogra: Well I didnt know how to update plars' specs so the report is relatively unfair to him
<plars> hmm, ok
<ogra> evil
<lool> paulliu: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-unr-karmic-application-res > can we kill stuff?
<paulliu> lool: OK.
<paulliu> lool: But I really want to make it done.
<paulliu> lool: That's what the OEM really wants.
<lool> paulliu: Yes, given the number of TODOs I realized the specs were truly incomplete yet
<paulliu> lool: ok.
<lool> plars: Shall we ask for help from QA team or GrueMaster to get more stuff implemented?
<plars> lool: they are next on my list once I get the one that's targetted to a6 finished up
<NCommander> So on dove spec, ubiquity changes just went up, and flash-kernel changes just went up
 * NCommander knocks on wood
<lool> NCommander: "up"?
<ogra> flash-kernel ?
<NCommander> lool, stuck to Launchpad
<plars> lool: which is about 75% done, should be pretty well able to knock the rest of it out today or tomorrow
 * ogra didnt see the changes 
<lool> plars: excellent
<NCommander> ogra, sorry, I posted a debdiff
 * NCommander is kinda mentally AFK
<ogra> but we were all waiting for you for the ubiquity changes
<ogra> it holds back an upload
<NCommander> ogra, those went up last night and were already merged
<lool> plars: I'm a bit busy for A6 but if you can see stuff where others in the team can help, can you ask us for helP?
<ogra> yes, they are waiting for flash-kernel
<ogra> i just triggered the merge before you got up
<NCommander> ogra, I'm still not fully confident it will work, my last image build still having issues not removing ubiquity
<NCommander> */paranoia*
<lool> plars: I dont mind asking Marjo or OEM for some hands if you need help too
<ogra> not removing ???
<NCommander> ogra, livecd-rootfs issue when you add a PPA, and have tasks
<ogra> dont add a PPA then :P
<plars> lool: I'd have to figure out what they could do, not sure off the top of my head
<ogra> NCommander, you shoudl really work with real images
<NCommander> ogra, thanks, I kinda learned that a bit after the fact :-P
<lool> plars: Ok; just use the opportunity to share the load if you see one
<plars> lool: if they want to help with triage, I've been falling behind on that due to other deadlines
<NCommander> ogra, I spin real images, I just want to push everything once, and we didn't have working real images until yesterday
<lool> plars: Ah that reminds me, I think you wanted to have a meeting on the triage process with QA?
<ogra> right, but now its blocking others
<ogra> so make sure to get the stuff in ASAP
<plars> lool: right, but I haven't had a chance to write up the proposal for it in workflow
<ogra> and test with actual images
<lool> StevenK: I wrote to slangasek to tell him about the wubi issue; I wasn't sure it was on the release team's radar
<plars> lool: you can action me on it and we'll do it next week if that's ok
<lool> NCommander: ^
<lool> [action] plars to discuss bug triage workflow with QA team
<StevenK> lool: Right
<StevenK> lool: It most certainly affects more than UNR
<lool> NCommander: Still with us?
<lool> StevenK: will forward you
<lool> should have cced you on the first place
<lool> NCommander: bfiller missed the beginning of the meeting and had an UMR question still; mind reopening this topic if spec review is done?
<lool> I think NCommander's connection went down or something
<lool> Any other comments on specs?
 * NCommander coughs
<NCommander> sorry, laptop decided it wanted to hang
<NCommander> Anyone got anything else on specs?
<NCommander> [topic] UMR Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  UMR Status
<lool> The three A6 ones are UNR translations (covered under UNR), dove (just covered the flash-kernel issue) and the compliance one
<NCommander> ...
 * NCommander pokes MootBot 
<NCommander> There
<NCommander> wow
<NCommander> that's lag
<lool> NCommander: action above too
<NCommander> I don't see an action
<lool> bfiller: Hey
<lool> 15:36 < lool> [action] plars to discuss bug triage workflow with QA team
<bfiller> lool: I had a question about UMR bugs
<NCommander> [action] plars to discuss bug triage workflow with QA team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  plars to discuss bug triage workflow with QA team
<lool> NCommander: Tip of the week /lastlog action
<lool> bfiller: Go ahead
<bfiller> lool: I've seen lots of bugs entered in UMR LP project. Wanted to know the plan (i.e. triage, assignment) for these bugs
<NCommander> lool, I didn't get any messages
<NCommander> lool, makes it hard to /lastlog :-P
<bfiller> lool: OEM team may be able to help fix some as we're finishing up our other work
<lool> NCommander: /lastlog the chan? ...
<lool> bfiller: So I saw two types of bug reports
<lool> bfiller: The serious type and the other type
<lool> Tom's bugs being of the former category  :-)
<lool> bfiller: Basically we have a little of StevenK's time, a little of time, and mainly a lot of paulliu's time to do everything Moblin relateed in distro
<bfiller> lool: who is taking the lead of triaging the bugs?
<lool> bfiller: but I figured that as soon as OEM would be rebasing on karmic we'd be able to all work on the same pool of bugs
<bfiller> lool: ok
<bfiller> makes sense
<lool> bfiller: Ah sorry, we also have QA folks of course
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: sorry   O:-)
<bfiller> lool: are you ok with me making assignments and severity or is that something your team will do?
<lool> bfiller: So I think we should triage the incoming bug flow on moblin-remix as much as possible as part of ongoing QA triages and we should review bug status weekly here
<plars_> lool: I missed something I guess? lagged out since 8:40
<lool> plars_: It's ok, you missed the bad part
<lool> plars_: We were discussing UMR again and bfiller was asking how we'd handle bug triage
<plars_> ah
<lool> bfiller: I think what works for you and plars works for me
<bfiller> lool: how often does QA triage the bugs? there are lots of new->unassigned
<lool> bfiller: But keep in mind the limited time availability of StevenK and myself to work on UMR
<lool> plars: Wanna comment on this?
<plars> bfiller: heh, by QA, do you mean me?
<lool> bfiller: Also, I'd personally recommend we focus on PPA -> karmic before spending too much time in bug filing/triaging/fixing
<bfiller> lool: understood, just want to get the ball rolling assigning bugs to paul and people on OEM team so they can get fixed
<bfiller> lool: agreed, that should be step 1
<plars> bfiller: unfortunately, I don't have tons of time to *just* do triage, so not nearly often enough, but I try to get at least some forward progress on triage done every week
<bfiller> lool: I think we're ready to do this in the next day or 2
<lool> bfiller: Ok we're on the same page here
<lool> bfiller: I think we want a phone call to set all the next steps again
<plars> bfiller: but that includes armel, unr, moblin, and other scattered things that make their way in
<bfiller> plars, lool : are you guys ok with me doing some triage if I have time
<lool> Since we're post the 14th
<plars> bfiller: PLEASE!
<bfiller> plars, lool : i am volunteering :)
<plars> help is always welcome from whoever has time
<lool> bfiller: plars' wife just had a heart attack hearing him shout and jump
 * bfiller smiles
<lool> bfiller: it's not xmas yet
<lool> Ok; anything else on UMR from your side Bill?
 * plars googles for "CPR"
<NCommander> plars, call 911
<bfiller> lool: that's it
<lool> NCommander: AOB?
<lool> ian_brasil: You around?
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
 * ogra saw him joining
<lool> ian_brasil: Did you want to bring up any particular topic?
<lool> ian_brasil: We discussed MID this week
<lool> JamieBennett: You had anything for the meeting or just wanted to see how it's like?
<JamieBennett> Just getting to know the format at the moment
<ogra> insanity and chaos ... and a chair that says something sometimes :)
<JamieBennett> :)
<ogra> but works quite well
<NCommander> Actually, I was going to say its more organized sanity that helps part the tides of the insane world of which we live
<lool> ian_brasil: So I guess you're postponing the MID stuff for karmic+1?
<JamieBennett> I think I have a lot to learn ;)
<NCommander> JamieBennett, don't worry, most of us don't bite
<NCommander> ;-)
 * ogra bites NCommander 
<NCommander> 704676352 bytes (705 MB) copied, 1431.84 s, 492 kB/s
<NCommander> bah
<ogra> it really depends whom :P
<NCommander> USB 2.0 my ***
<lool> Any other business for A6?
<ogra> testing !!
<ogra> lots and lots of
<StevenK> Lots of testing!
<lool> Yeah, GET TESTING FOLKS!
 * StevenK glares at ogra 
 * lool glares at lool
 * ogra already did his first imx51 install today
<ogra> you slackers !
<lool> NCommander: Ok thanks for chairing
<NCommander> #endchair
<NCommander> ...
<ogra> lol
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:52.
<StevenK> Muahaha
<NCommander> *coughs*
<ian_brasil> lool, no we want to try for Karmic
<lool> ian_brasil: Ok; cool
<lool> ian_brasil: Sorry that we didn't manage to cover this in the meeting
<lool> ian_brasil: Feel free to add an entry for next week and we can discuss this any time on #ubuntu-mobile
<ian_brasil> lool, we will do that
<ian_brasil> will have a wiki page up by next week and will publish some of the work we have done
<lool> ian_brasil: Cool
<lool> ian_brasil: I was fearing you guys didn't have any time
<ian_brasil> we had the final book deadline yesterday but that is all passed now..we are full time on this (after we have slept a bit ;)
<bittin-> is the Desktop meeting in this channel 16:30 Swedish time?
<zul> morning
<sommer> hey all
<nurmi_> hello
<ivoks> o/
<Daviey> \o
<nijaba> \o/
<ivoks> lol
<nijaba> -o-
<ttx> guys, sync your clocks :)
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<nurmi_> \o\
<Sam-I-Am> clocks synced, pocket protectors installed...
<Daviey> ntpd set to lethal.
<ttx> Let's get started...
<soren> o/
<kirkland> o/
<alexm> o/
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Welcome to the server team meeting...
<ttx> Agenda is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> ACTION: smoser to tag existing UEC image bugs with "uec-images"
<smoser> done
<ttx> ACTION: mdz to follow up on ubuntu-bug/apport for uec images
<ttx> mdz is not here today, let's pass, unless someone knows the status here
<ttx> ACTION: soren to ensure that smoser can update the UEC publishing scripts
<zul> i thought ubuntu-bug was already on the uec images?
<smoser> smose rcan update publishing scripts
<ttx> zul: it doesn't trigger the tag on bugfiling
<zul> ah ok
<smoser> ubuntu-bug/apport is present in images
<ttx> ACTION: smoser to add MD5SUMs for UEC images
<smoser> and i sent mail to mdz (copying soren) about how to determine if you're in ec2
<soren> smoser: Which one is this?
<smoser> that is done. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-on-ec2/vmbuilder/automated-ec2-builds/revision/7
<ttx> smoser: that's the code used for releases ?
<soren> Oui.
<soren> Well, for builds of releases.
<smoser> soren: Subject: Re: Notes from catch-up, 2009-09-11
<ttx> Bien.
<ttx> ACTION: soren to add manifest files for UEC images
<soren> Code landed in VMBuilder. Will add to build system today.
<ttx> ACTION: smoser to open dialog with IS about automated publishing to EC2 and agree on a plan
<smoser> done. ticket 35660
<ttx> smoser: do we have an agreement on the plan ?
<smoser> hopefully we see resolution sometime next week on that, and the ability for us to publish to amazon directly from data center
<zul> yay!
<ttx> ok.
<ttx> ACTION: soren to automate updating of ec2-version-query
<zul> bye bye chichken coop
<soren> ttx: Blocked on other stuff.
<soren> ttx: Namely the automated publishing.
<ttx> ok, will report to next week.
<ttx> ACTION: soren to publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place
<nijaba> on this subject, do we have a plan for a human readable page updated at the same time?
<soren> nijaba: No plan at the moment that I know of.
<soren> ttx: Hm... I'm not completely sure about the status of that. Let me check.
<nijaba> soren: then we need to have one
<soren> nijaba: Yes.
<ttx> nijaba: noted.
<nijaba> ttx: can we add this as an AOB subject?
<ttx> nijaba: time permitting, yes :)
<nijaba> thanks
<ttx> smoser: While soren checks, could you comment on ec2 kernel status for alpha 6 ?
<smoser> we're planning on using the kernels from bug 418130 for alpha6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 418130 in Ubuntu Karmic "Karmic EC2 images don't use a karmic kernel" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/418130
<ttx> so a karmic kernel. \o/
<smoser> i need to publish them to eu-west-1, and soren needs to make them "current" in version-query
<ttx> ACTION: smoser to add ec2-images tag to the relevant bugs
<soren> Hmm... If my e-mail tagging is correct, this is blocking on me getting back to slangasek on the subject.
<soren> I'll do that today.
<smoser> done. and ideally ec2-images bugs and uec2-images bugs are opened with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?field.tags=ec2-images or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?field.tags=uec-images urls respectively (which get the tag added)
<ttx> ok.
<ttx> Anyone knows if bug documentation was updated for uec-images, ec2-images tags ?
<smoser> s/uec2/uec
<smoser> i have not updated any documentation for this.
<ttx> smoser: it was a mdz action, just checking on status
<ttx> ACTION: nijaba to fold #ubuntu-ec2 and #ubuntu-cloud into #ubuntu-server
<nijaba> Done. Reference to ubuntu-[cloud|ec2] removed from web pages and topic changed in those chans.  Let me know if I missed something.
<ttx> ACTION: soren to triage all eucalyptus bugs, and use the 'eucalyptus' tag for bugs which should be escalated to the eucalyptus team
<smoser> ttx, i dont know.
<smoser> there are threads about getting ubuntu-bug to automatically tag
<ttx> ok
<soren> ttx: I did this last week, but I think it's ripe for another go. I got interrupted so many times, it's not even funny, so I've likely missed something, and I'm sure new stuff has been reported since then.
<ttx> soren: we'll review the list later in the meeting anyway ;)
<ttx> ACTION: kirkland to build a proof of concept alfresco appliance
<kirkland> ttx: howdy
<kirkland> ttx: this TODO has been retargeted
<ttx> right.
<kirkland> ttx: alfresco is not a practical target for our reference appliance
<kirkland> ttx: couple of reasons, a) depends on sunjdk which has been removed from karmic
<kirkland> ttx: b) very little community testing on it
<kirkland> ttx: c) only in the canonical partner archive right now
<kirkland> ttx: we have adjusted the target to Moodle
<kirkland> ttx: which is in Main, all open source, has a nice first-time setup via a web front end
<ttx> kirkland: did you build a proof of concept Moodle appliance ?
<nijaba> kirkland: sun jdk has not YET been removed
<nijaba> kirkland: there is an active discussion on the subject
<kirkland> ttx: yes, let me grab the url
<kirkland> ttx: http://rookery.canonical.com/~kirkland/ubuntu-9.04-moodle.qcow2.bz2
<kirkland> (~260MB)
<kirkland> ttx: so there's a couple of to-do's left on this
<kirkland> ttx: right now, on first login, it dpkg-reconfigures moodle, forcing the user to make a few selections
<kirkland> ttx: i'm going to just default those to sane values
<kirkland> ttx: the hardest one, though, is FQDN
<kirkland> ttx: for that, i've installed avahi-daemon, and set the hostname to moodle.local
<ivoks> you should ask that one
<ivoks> kirkland: i wouldn't suggest that
<kirkland> ivoks: understood, this is a difficult one
<kirkland> i could set it to the IP address
<ivoks> many windows shops use .local
<ivoks> and that appliance wouldn't work then
<kirkland> in any case, this *must* be set before the user starts going through the web interface setup
<ttx> kirkland: is the appliance in its current form directly usable in UEC ?
<Daviey> try DHCP and notify of setting, and ask accept/change?
<kirkland> ttx: i'm not sure, i don't have a UEC running yet :-/
<soren> It's not.
<soren> UEC does not run qcow2 images.
<soren> It runs flat filesystem images.
<kirkland> soren: oh?  should i format raw?
<ttx> img.tar.gz is what we usually do
<kirkland> ttx: i require some guidance on image creation
<soren> Yes. VMBuilder should be taking care of that for you?
<ttx> ok.
<kirkland> soren: hmm, with what option?
<soren> kirkland: Xen?
<zul> why not just download the build scripts and use that?
<ttx> kirkland: you should also sync with niemeyer on possibilities of making it show up at one point as an available appliance in Eucalyptus image store
<kirkland> zul: what build scripts?
<nurmi_> I can also help with Moodle image test, we have several installations of UEC running
<kirkland> ttx: yes
<kirkland> nurmi_: great
<kirkland> ttx: okay, i'll redo this appliance today
<ttx> [ACTION] kirkland to sync with soren and niemeyer on getting the Moodle appliance in a UEC and UEC-image-store-compatible format
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to sync with soren and niemeyer on getting the Moodle appliance in a UEC and UEC-image-store-compatible format
<kirkland> ttx: what about the FQDN question?
<zul> kirkland: check with smoser
<kirkland> ttx: how do we want to handle that
<kirkland> ttx: we can either force the user to ssh to the device, set that, and do the dpkg-reconfigure questions
<kirkland> ttx: or what?
<ttx> soren: could that be covered with userdata ?
<soren> We can do everything with userdata.
<Daviey> kirkland: Is this targetted at Eucalyptus or generic?
<soren> ...I don't think it's the right thing to use here, though..
<soren> I think it'd be a shame to rely on the user setting specific userdata to use this.
<smoser> "we can do everything with user data" .
<ttx> ok, let's finish the ACTION list first and come back to that after, time permitting
<ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to get niemeyer's proxy code packaged
<smoser> i agree with soren, on both that we dont want to require user to feed info that way, and that we can in deed do everything that way
<mathiaz> ttx: done - MIR is ready
<mathiaz> ttx: it's in the MIR team camp now
<smoser> we may be able to find an app suitable for a vm that has a web gui admin panel on first install.
<smoser> lots of php apps have such things.
<smoser> ie, when you install gallery, you then go to some url and start configuring it.
<ttx> ACTION: zul to ensure rabbitmq-server gets reviewed and promoted
<zul> yeah im blocked on the MIR team again ill bug kees about it again today
<ttx> yes.
<ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to upload openldap 2.4.18
<mathiaz> ttx: done
<soren> Whee!
<ttx> ACTION: kirkland to speak with marjo about how to get qemu-kvm tested prior to release (and more generally server applications like it)
<kirkland> ttx: yes, did that
<kirkland> ttx: we're going to have a bug day, in 2 weeks
<ttx> great !
<kirkland> ttx: i'm now working on a wiki page describing how to test, and what
<kirkland> ttx: if there's anyone in the community willing/able to help with that plan, i'm open ;-)
<ttx> ok.
<ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to get a server dev team set up in LP and work with cjwatson to get it set up for archive reorg
<kirkland> ttx: as this is toward the bottom of my list
<cjwatson> s/cjwatson/TB/ please
<cjwatson> (which includes me, but ...)
<mathiaz> ttx: turns out we don't have use for an ubuntu-server-dev team right now
<mathiaz> cjwatson: IIUC ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-motu will not get away?
<mathiaz> ttx: I'll have to look at the package set again though.
<ttx> mathiaz: ok.
<ttx> ACTION: ttx to update server team Roadmap to reflect current projects
<ttx> done, we'll see that in a minute
<ttx> ACTION: Daviey to call for testing of Asterisk 1.6
<cjwatson> mathiaz: eventually, they will
<cjwatson> well, motu will
<Daviey> ttx: http://blog.daviey.com/ubuntu/call-for-testing-asterisk-1-6.html and hit ubuntu-server ML lst
<cjwatson> though this is not especially short-term
<Daviey> list*
<mathiaz> cjwatson: ok.
<ttx> Daviey: ok, feel free to update the (new) Roadmap page to reflect the CFT-in-progress
<Daviey> ttx: will do.
<ttx> there is a tester section in there
<ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to produce a list of accepted bugs for packages related to the ubuntu-server team.
<Daviey> ttx: one other thing, not sure how to handle beta4 status
<ttx> beta4 ?
<mathiaz> ttx: done
<Daviey> current 1.6 in karmic is stil beta4
<Daviey> rc1 is out, but would it be better to wait for release?
<Daviey> or stick with a beta for the whole cycle (sounds like a maintainaince un)
<Daviey> fun*
<ttx> release early, release often
<mathiaz> Daviey: is rc1 a bug fix only?
<Daviey> ttx: okay, i'll get rc1 done.  mathiaz yes, adds no feature afaik
<ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to produce a list of accepted bugs for packages related to the ubuntu-server team.
<mathiaz> Daviey: so it can still go in karmic - if packages are ready in time
<mathiaz> ttx: done
<zul> mathiaz: do you need help with that ACTION?
<mathiaz> zul: I don't think so - it's done.
<ttx> ok... let's move on to the next topic then
<zul> k
<ttx> [TOPIC] Alpha6 remaining actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha6 remaining actions
<ttx> Just a quick roundtable about things that need to be covered before alpha6 release
<ttx> We don't have bugs left targeted for that milestone...
<ttx> Should we ?
<Sam-I-Am> i'm curious about that sudo/su glibc bug
<ivoks> rhcs sync maybe?
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone=12714
<mathiaz> ttx: bug 413789
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 413789 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 "mysql-server has been kept back with dist-upgrading" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/413789
<mathiaz> ttx: apparently I forgot to target it correclty - there isn't any karmic task
<ttx> mathiaz: you plan to fix it in time for alpha6 ?
<mathiaz> ttx: well - not me.
<Sam-I-Am> bug 423252
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423252 in glibc "NSS using LDAP on Karmic (alpha 4) breaks 'su' and 'sudo'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423252
<mathiaz> ttx: I'm stuck - waiting for mvo to have a look at it.
<ttx> ah, ok
<mathiaz> ttx: I'll probably retarget that for beta then
<ttx> mathiaz: see with mvo, but that may be preferable
<ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to target bug 413789 to a appropriate milestone
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 413789 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 "mysql-server has been kept back with dist-upgrading" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/413789
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to target bug 413789 to a appropriate milestone
<ttx> About bug 423252, I'll bring it up at next release meeting. It's a foundations thing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423252 in glibc "NSS using LDAP on Karmic (alpha 4) breaks 'su' and 'sudo'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423252
<Sam-I-Am> ttx: ok
<ttx> we have some alpha6-related release process improvements as well
<ttx> * Add signed MD5SUMS
<ttx> smoser, soren: slangasek is apparently blocked on nectarine access for that
<soren> He just got that earlier today.
<soren> Allegedly.
 * soren checks
<slangasek> oh?
<soren> Yes.
<soren> Try it.
<ttx> * Add manifest file for each image
<soren> (bypassing the usual ssh proxy thing)
<ttx> soren: that is covered, right
<slangasek> ah, no proxy
 * slangasek tweaks
<soren> ttx: 87%, yes.
<ttx> * Automate publishing of AMIs to EC2
<soren> ttx: The hard part is done :)
<ttx> smoser: that was deferred, methink
<slangasek> (strange, why is /that/ one outside the proxy?)
<smoser> deferred, yes.
<ttx> * Automate updating ec2-version-query
<ttx> soren: blocked on automatic publication
<ttx> ?
<soren> Well, yes.
<soren> and decision on final location.
<ttx> * Publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place
<ttx> soren: this is blocked on you syncing with slangasek ?
<soren> ttx: Yes. I'm writing the e-mail right now.
<ttx> * Ensure inclusion of relevant news in release notes
<ttx> erichammond: around ?
<erichammond> yes
<ttx> yay ;)
<erichammond> I believe this is waiting on a task from soren related to manifests
<ttx> soren: ^?
<erichammond> probably the above mentioned one
<soren> ttx: We've been through this.
<soren> ttx: Twice :)
 * ttx is buried under information
<ttx> ok then
 * soren tosses ttx a shovel
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review progress made on the Roadmap
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review progress made on the Roadmap
<ttx> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<ivoks> didn't know cluster is lower than mail :)
 * mvo apologizes to mathiaz for not looking at the upgrade bug yet
<ttx> ivoks: It's all Low :P
<ttx> smoser: Let's talk about UEC images bugs
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images
<mathiaz> mvo: I've retargeted the bug for 9.10-beta.
<ivoks> is it too late to work on mail stack?
<smoser> i've put together http://paste.ubuntu.com/271503/
<smoser> which covers all the opne uec and ec2 bugs. do we want to paste that here?
<smoser> theres not much uec specific, other than bug 429106 which i opened but have no progress on
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429106 in vm-builder "kernel and initramfs should be available for uec" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429106
<ttx> smoser: will 420581 be fixed in time ?
<mathiaz> ivoks: we're passed FF
<ttx> it's apparently targeted for alpha6
<ivoks> mathiaz: yep, sorry
<mathiaz> ivoks: it can be deferred for the next release cycle though.
<smoser> ttx, i just need soren to pull, review it, sponsor it, and then update his vmbuilder on nectarine
<soren> smoser: Yes. I will also do this today.
<smoser> he may object to it, but i think the patch is good.
<ivoks> mathiaz: well, there's nothing else we can do; i'll just fix some bugs in current stack
<smoser> and then i may have more of the same requests for soren tomorrow
<mathiaz> ivoks: sounds like a good plan to me - fixing bugs!
<ivoks> :)
<ttx> ok, anyone else has remarks on the buglist or the status pastebin from smoser ?
<ttx> EC2 AMIs bugs are at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images for reference
<smoser> other things of note
<ttx> smoser: shouldn't 418130 get targeted for alpha6 ?
<smoser> Last week, I released ami-a40fefcd and ami-3fb25256 to ubuntu-ec2, ubuntu-cloud last week, this is the first image we've published with karmic kernel by default.  We've got fairly good feedback, the only real issue raised is on bug 428692
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428692 in ubuntu "ec2 kernel needs CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP=y and other config changes" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428692
<smoser> Other news is that jono, jorge, and ara have started helping us get a test plan together.  They're concentrating on establishing a way for the community to help us test ec2 images.
<smoser> ttx, ok. i'll target it there.
<zul> smoser: heh gee that is all the issues they had with the karmic kernel?
<erichammond> smoser: You said that the next public AMI released would be for Alpha 6.  Are you registering private AMIs for testing purposes?
<smoser> i've not seen any issues with it other than the loop driver not being present (easily worked around)
<smoser> erichammond, the most recent one i've put up is the one i labelled alpha5.1. the only change so far since then is bug 427288
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427288 in eglibc "Karmic i386 EC2 kernel emulating unsupported memory accesses" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427288
<smoser> which i've not gotten into the images yet
<erichammond> smoser: Are the kernel modules and a "loop" fix going into Alpha 6?
<smoser> probably not a loop fix, but maybe a kernel modules
<smoser> thats a weak maybe
<ttx> Anything else on the UEC/EC2 images front, before we move to Eucalyptus ?
<smoser> but it is fairly easily worked around with dpkg from the ppa
<smoser> erichammond, but, for beta i hope both.
<ttx> [TOPIC] Packaging and integration of Eucalyptus 1.6
<MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging and integration of Eucalyptus 1.6
<ttx> Eucalyptus integration bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=eucalyptus
<ttx> soren already said it needs some refresh
<ttx> comments, anyone ?
<ttx> OK... since we are already overflowing I'll switch to...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Virtual appliance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Virtual appliance
<ttx> niemeyer is not around, but his part is blocked on the image-store-proxy MIR
<ttx> kirkland already mentioned the change in reference appliance
<kirkland> ttx: ack
<ttx> The best way to push FQDN configuration shoudl probably be discussed off-meeting
<kirkland> ttx: that's fine
<kirkland> ttx: i'm going to talk to smoser later today and get some assistance making/testing the image in UEC
<kirkland> ttx: and ping nurmi_ about it too
<ttx> kirkland: ok.
<kirkland> ttx: we can discuss FQDN in #ubuntu-server
<ttx> [TOPIC] Other specs from the Roadmap
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other specs from the Roadmap
<zul_> sorry X decided to tak a nose dive
<kirkland> ttx: fwiw, moodle seemed to work well as an appliance, with web setup and all
<ttx> Anyone has progress to report on other specs from the roadmap ?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> cluster stack
<ivoks> everything for pacemaker is done and in karmic, ready for shipping
<ttx> ivoks: ok
<ivoks> rhcs just needs one more sync and that would be finished too
<ttx> it's a bugfix sync ?
<ivoks> since it's in main, it needs main sponsors to look at it
<ivoks> it's a new version
<ivoks> but it also has some fixes
<mathiaz> ivoks: new features?
<ivoks> bug 429834
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429834 in redhat-cluster "Please sync redhat-cluster 3.0.2-2ubuntu1 (main) from PPA" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429834
<ivoks> bugfix version
<mathiaz> ivoks: if it's a bugfix only, it doesn't need a FFexception
<ivoks> well
<ttx> I'm not sure if we do syncs from PPAs though
<ivoks> current redhat-cluster in karmic is very old
<ivoks> so, this one would be a major change
<ivoks> but we couldn't sync it before, cause there weren't all needed pieces
<ivoks> corosync and openais
<ttx> ivoks: so you need a FFe first.
<ivoks> most probably
<ttx> [ACTION] ivoks to file FFe for the redhat-cluster update
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to file FFe for the redhat-cluster update
<ttx> mathiaz: should we consider directory-enabled-user-login completed, or is there more work to do ?
<ivoks> doesn't the bug qualify as ffe?
<mathiaz> ttx: testing is the next step
<mathiaz> ttx: no more developement is required though
<mathiaz> ivoks: if there are new features in there, then it requires a FFe
<ttx> ivoks: it needs more precision on the scope of the change, and subscribe ubuntu-release rather than sponsors
<ivoks> ok
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - reading through the changelog it seems that a FFe is required
<ttx> mathiaz: ok, I'll leave it open then
<ttx> any other spec progress to mention ?
<mathiaz> ivoks: what needs to be documented is which new features, and what are the risk of updating the stack in karmic now
<ivoks> mathiaz: well, current rhcs doesn't work at all :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: it's *totally* broken?
<ivoks> mathiaz: yes
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - so mention this in the FFe request as well
<ivoks> of course
<ttx> [TOPIC] Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
<ttx> Bug list @ http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<DKcross> have meet now'
<DKcross> ?
<ttx> DKcross: which meeting ?
<DKcross> any know when is the meet for membership?
<ttx> no, but we definitely overflow :)
<DKcross> ttx, i don't know
<ttx> no bug assigned directly to canonical-server-team... so no assignement necessary there
<ttx> anyone want to mention being blocked on one of "his" bugs ? Or wanting one of them to be reassigend ?
<mathiaz> DKcross: which membership board is supposed to be running now?
<ttx> Personally I wanted to discuss bug 425928
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 425928 in eucalyptus "Eucalyptus CC package depends on 'vtund' process in multi-cluster mode" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/425928
<zul> ttx: i just un-assigned myself  the iptables one
<ttx> Is the proposed solution at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/425928/comments/1 satisfactory for everyone ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 425928 in eucalyptus "Eucalyptus CC package depends on 'vtund' process in multi-cluster mode" [Medium,Triaged]
<zul> ack
<ttx> zul: ok
 * soren looks
<ttx> nurmi_ is no longer with us, unfortunately
 * soren agress
<DKcross> mathiaz, no, i dont know, I'm question when is
<ttx> OK, I'll do that then
<ttx> anything else on that list someone wants to bring up before we move on to the next item in that crowded agenda ?
<mathiaz> DKcross: usually the wiki page for the membership board outlines when the next meeting takes place
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review
<ttx> mathiaz: I'll let you drive this one :)
<DKcross> mathiaz,  i know but no have new date
<mathiaz> http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/buglists/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/buglists/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<DKcross> thanks i will wait
<mathiaz> ^^ any bugs worth considering for a SRU on the list above^^?
<zul> i have a list as well: http://pastebin.com/m78eb72be
<zul> mathiaz: ^^^
<nealmcb> the next meeting in here is desktop team in 10 minutes, according to http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<mathiaz> nealmcb: the desktop team is in ubuntu-desktop AFAICT
<ttx> it would still be good to be done in 10 minutes though :)
<nealmcb> mathiaz: ahh - good point
<nealmcb> ttx: no - go for a record!!
<mathiaz> zul: seems like a good list of bugs - nominate and accept them
<zul> mathiaz: the ones on my list above are realllly easy to fix and they have all been fixed in karmic
<zul> mathiaz:k
<mathiaz> anything else on the fixedbugs list from last week?
<ttx> nijaba: about a human-readable ec2-version-query, I suggest you bring it up to one of the MLs, at worse put in on the agenda for next week meeting.
<ttx> mathiaz: nope
<zul> nope
<nijaba> ttx: ok, will do
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on then
<mathiaz> http://us-dappernominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-dappernominated.notlong.com/
<mathiaz> iz empty
<mathiaz> http://us-hardynominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-hardynominated.notlong.com/
<ttx> 309632: -1, implies some behavior change
<ttx> 406171: +1
<mathiaz> ttx: declined and approved
<mathiaz> http://us-intrepidnominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-intrepidnominated.notlong.com/
<mathiaz> iz empty
<mathiaz> http://us-jauntynominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-jauntynominated.notlong.com/
<mathiaz> empty as well
<ttx> yay
<zul> yay
<mathiaz> so next in line
<mathiaz> http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/buglists/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/buglists/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> ^^ this is the list of accepted bugs that have an assigne
<mathiaz> assignee
<mathiaz> for packages related to the ubuntu-server team
<mathiaz> kirkland: what's the status on the kvm bugs?
 * kirkland looks
<kirkland> mathiaz: i had a heavy-duty bug triage day on friday
<mathiaz> and we need to assign http://launchpad.net/bugs/200614
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 200614 in net-snmp "segfault and warnings from net-snmp 5.4.x" [Undecided,Fix released]
<kirkland> mathiaz: went through 100+ kvm and qemu bugs
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - I was specifically refering to the kvm bugs listed above
<mathiaz> kirkland: http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/buglists/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> kirkland: what's the state of the sru process?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm not actively working any of these
<mathiaz> zul: same for the vblades?
<kirkland> mathiaz: the only thing on my sru radar is a possible qcow2 curruption on jaunty
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - so you may wanna unassigned yourself then
<kirkland> mathiaz: i am to prepare a ppa package for the user reporting the issue, to see if it solves his problem
<zul> mathiaz: its been uploaded looking for testers
<kirkland> mathiaz: will do
<mathiaz> and bug 127836
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 127836 in bacula "[SRU] bacula-director-pgsql not installable" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127836
<mathiaz> Nafallo: ^^?
<mathiaz> Nafallo: are you still working on this one?
<mathiaz> zul: could you work on bug 200614?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 200614 in net-snmp "segfault and warnings from net-snmp 5.4.x" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200614
<mathiaz> soren: bug 251480?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 251480 in kvm "X hangs in Intrepid in KVM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/251480
<zul> mathiaz: yeah ill but it in my list for net-snmp
<mathiaz> and last list to review: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+requestedreviews
<mathiaz> which of course is empty
<mathiaz> as noone is using pkg branches for SRU work for now
<soren> mathiaz: Yeah, uh...
<mathiaz> soren: still planning on fixing it?
<soren> I don't actually.
 * soren unassigns
<mathiaz> ok - that's all for now
<mathiaz> ttx: ^^ for the sru review
<mathiaz> The first part is under control now - we should focus on using pkg branches for preparing SRU and review them
<ttx> ok
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> no time for that, I guess
<ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<ttx> next week, same place, same time, hopefully shorter ?
<soren> Much.
<nealmcb> :)
<ivoks> we could even skip it, since we worked so hard today :D
<mathiaz> +1
<soren> +100
<ttx> the action review just ate the first 45 minutes, sorry about that
<nealmcb> nijaba: where is the sun jdk / karmic conversation going on?
 * soren needs to leave
<ttx> nealmcb: I think it's a TB matter
<soren> see you guys later.
<nealmcb> ttx: thx
<kirkland> o/
<erichammond> Thanks, all.
<nurmi> thanks all
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:40.
<ivoks> have a nice day/evening!
<alexm> thanks all
<nijaba> nealmcb: an email thread so far, we are preparing an official email for the TB on reasons why this decision should be delayed
<nealmcb> nijaba: thanks.  I also found the discussions on the server blogs - http://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2009/09/12/uninstall-sun-java6/
<nealmcb> I need to catch up!
<ogasawara> Kernel Dudes! Roll call.
 * apw zones in
 * amitk waves
 * smb waves
 * rtg sluches in
 * manjo here
 * pgraner waves
 * lieb here
 * cking zones in too
<ogasawara> Aight, lets start this.
<ogasawara> #startmeeting
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is ogasawara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Open Action Items
<ogasawara> (apw) check up on drbd status in dkms package and kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items
<apw> bah still nothing on that one
<rtg> slacker
 * jjohansen1 waves
 * apw self flagilates
<ogasawara> apw: I'll just push it to next week then
<ogasawara> (jjohansen) set up daily irc meeting (#ubuntu-kernel) to cover ubuntu on EC2 progress
<ogasawara> jjohansen1: seems to be happening right?
<rtg> ogasawara, they are in progress
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<ogasawara> * Release Meeting Bugs (8 bugs):
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogasawara> * RC Milestoned Bugs Alpha 6 (8 kernel bugs):
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12714
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12714
<ogasawara> * Release Targeted Bugs (12 bugs):
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-5
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-5
<ogasawara> Moving on to blueprints . . .
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The ability to link bug reports to a full hw profile is possible so now we're discussing how to link to a specific device.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
 * smb eyes blurr
<ogasawara> heh
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (apw)
<apw> we are having some instability on intel at the moment which we are hoping we have just fixed
<rtg> apw, mesa foobar is KMS related?
<apw> unsure, mesa is aware of kms
<apw> nothing else interesting going on at the moment
<pgraner> apw: was this due to Intel dropping the mesa reqmt to us late in the cycle?
<apw> i think its mostly cause its a big change kms et al coming in, and dri2
<apw> so mesa is playing catchup at a rate of knots
<pgraner> apw: they mandated a bump in mesa to deal with the ironlake graphics?
<apw> ahhh ... then perhaps so
<rtg> thats one of those silly userspace packages
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<rtg> its in a PPA pending some testing. a topic for next week at the sprint
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<smb> no change since last week but mainly one remove and maybe an update pending
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<manjo> no change since last weel
<pgraner> How are we doing on suspend/resume, mdz is having issues and I've seen others
<apw> pgraner, ok there are two sources of suspend/resume failures on intel
<rtg> pgraner, some were i915 related that we think are fixed
<pgraner> I can't seem to find upstream references
<apw> one we patched and uploaded in .32, and the other is this mesa thing
<manjo> pgraner, will test .32 on xps 1330 today
<apw> i have a 20 s/r streak going here
<pgraner> apw: ok we need to watch that close with A6 being this week
<apw> yep, we have pushed the mesa update through the freeze, with slangasek's blessing
<pgraner> I'm done...over
<apw> i believe all the major intel issues for s/r are covered at that point
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen1)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen1)
<slangasek> apw: and that only requires an update to mesa, right, not the kernel? :)
<jjohansen1> AppArmor has some bugs that I am currently working on
<apw> right only mesa
<jjohansen1> Bug 429872 Bug 429872 Bug 415632 Bug 427948
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429872 in tcpdump "/sbin/apparmor_parser: ... Profile doesn't conform to protocol" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429872
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415632 in linux "apparmor not properly handling file deletion on NFS" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415632
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427948 in apparmor "network operations not getting reported on karmic" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427948
<jjohansen1> I think I am testing fixes for 2 of them
<jjohansen1> AppArmor LSM submission is going out today
<apw> does that mean upstream submission?
<jjohansen1> apw: yeah it start of upstream submissions
<apw> awsome
<ogasawara> jjohansen1: anything else?
<jjohansen1> no
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
<ogasawara> bjf is away but notes "Nothing significantly new on the Marvell dove front. Am waiting
<ogasawara> for a live image (and helping as much as I can)."
<amitk> upload for the imx51 kernel was postponed today
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Karmic Kernel Status (jjohansen1)
<pgraner> amitk: ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Karmic Kernel Status (jjohansen1)
<amitk> mobile team has live images barely working and 150 new patches might've caused a disturbance in the force
<pgraner> amitk: ok
<jjohansen1> EC2 kernel is looking pretty good
<jjohansen1> rtg packaged up EC2 kernel topic branch and sent in MIR
<amitk> so it will be uploaded post thaw
<jjohansen1> bug 418130 is fixed for alpha 6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 418130 in Ubuntu Karmic "Karmic EC2 images don't use a karmic kernel" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/418130
<jjohansen1> For Bug 427288 - went with patch to glibc instead of kernel patch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427288 in eglibc "Karmic i386 EC2 kernel emulating unsupported memory accesses" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427288
<rtg> ogasawara, linux-ec2 is accepted and in the archive
<jjohansen1> rtg is goint to create a meta package for linux-ec2
<jjohansen1> and rtg has also updated the ec2 kernel configs to more closely match virtual, and I am currently packaging up a test kernel
<jjohansen1> I think that is it
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<rtg> apw, looks ok?
<apw> with the hangs under control, and the fsck thing in
<apw> i think we are pretty good on the platforms i am testing right now
<rtg> yeah, uploaded -10.33 this morning
<apw> we need to focus on the regressions still for the forseeable
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.79 (security)
<smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.60 (updates)
<smb>             - New proposed upload scheduled for tomorrow
<smb>             LUM-2.6.24-24.41 (proposed, uploaded today)
<smb>             - A small glitch in the makefiles caused a new modules not to be
<smb>               build.
<smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.41 (updates)
<smb> * Jaunty    2.6.28-15.49 (security)
<smb>             2.6.28-15.52 (proposed)[6] (10/21 verifications)
<smb> If there are no questions I am done
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Netbook (sconklin, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Netbook (sconklin, apw)
<apw> i think we agreed to drop this one
<ogasawara> my bad, moving on then
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<sconklin> I released and uploaded kernel, lum, and lbm last friday for the netbook-lpia branch
<ogasawara> I'm still getting caught up on the regressions from last week, but currently it looks like 7 more regression-potential bugs have come in.
<ogasawara> we'll be sure to follow up on them in the next bug call
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Stats from today's bug day can be seen at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090915.html
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions
<ogasawara> Anyone have anything?
<ogasawara> I'll take that silence as a no
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair
<smb> <hmm>
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair
<rtg> I motion to cancel next week
<sconklin> seconded
<smb> +1
<cking> cancel the meeting, not the week
<rtg> (as we are all on the road)
<rtg> cking, smart ass
<cking> :-;
<ogasawara> cool, I'll send a note we'll cancel next weeks meeting
<smb> cking, Careful rtg is in the right mood now
<apw> ogasawara, thanks ... :)
<smb> ogasawara, ta
<ogasawara> thanks guys, see ya'll next week!
<amitk> kthxbye
<cking> ta
<ogasawara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:23.
<lieb> bye
<Grantbow> LoCo Council meeting now?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
<seidos> I'm listening
<nhaines> Good to see you, troyready.  :)
<troyready> nhaines: much appreciated :) Good to be on IRC.
<estiedi> Hi, I have a question.
<DWonderly> ?
<nhaines> estiedi: best to just ask it.  If anyone can answer, we will.
<estiedi> OK, this is my first time meeting, so my apologies if I'm not aware of some protocol.
<estiedi> anyway, I posted earlier this week in the mailing list with asking if we could get the Luxemburg LoCo Team running again?
<estiedi> It seems that the local contact on the website died 2 years ago in a motorcycle accident
<Flannel> estiedi: The meeting here hasn't started yet actually, but #ubuntu-locoteams should be able to help you out
<estiedi> Ok, thanks.
<Grantbow> estiedi: I'm sorry to hear about that! I think we are waiting for the Council members to join the channel.
<Grantbow> LoCo Council meeting now? I think it should have started over 30 minutes ago. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
<nhaines> Grantbow: the members of the LoCo Council have already been pinged.
<popey> o/
<popey> Apologies for my absense, had to go to a meeting at my daughters school, just got in
<Grantbow> \o/
<nhaines> popey: :D
<nhaines> popey: You're the first one here.
<popey> :(
<popey> I'll mail the LoCo council and see if we can reschedule for the same time next tuesday. Will update the wiki page to reflect it
<nhaines> popey: it's okay, it's a good start.
<popey> My apologies to those who were here for the meeting. I didnt realise nobody would be availabale
<nhaines> Hm.
<nhaines> Out of curiousity, is there a quorum?
<popey> with one person?
<Flannel> nhaines: a quorum of one?
<nhaines> Haha, I didn't mean let's go.  :)
<popey> :)
<popey> not sure what you meant, sorry :)
<nhaines> I just wasn't sure if 2 or 3 were sufficent or if all four members have to be present.  :)
<popey> my brain is waterlogged having just got in from the rain
<Flannel> popey: I wonder if nhaines wasn't sure what he meant
<popey> 2 or 3 is fine
<popey> we dont need to all be here
<popey> I can see from the loco council mailing list that just after I said I wouldn't be here, the other members said they were busy too
<Grantbow> popey: thanks for acknowledging the meeting!
<popey> have mailed the list
<popey> please subscribe to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda to know when the new meeting will be
<Flannel> popey: Alright, sounds good, thanks.
<popey> will try and get it sorted in the next 24 hours
<popey> once again, very sorry :(
<DWonderly> Thanks popey
<nhaines> popey: it'll get all sorted out.  :)
<Grantbow> popey: thanks
 * popey goes to make a late tea
<Yasumoto_> popey: no worries, thanks dude
<czajkowski> Aloha
<nhaines> czajkowski: aloha.  :)
<czajkowski> nhaines: :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-16
<MontelEdwards> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 20:28. The chair is MontelEdwards.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<MontelEdwards> oh shit
<MontelEdwards> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:28.
<st33med> Meant to test something?
<MontelEdwards> st33med, a 1024x600 screen makes one type stuff in the wrong place
<st33med> ah
<st33med> that sucks
<MontelEdwards> yes. EEE PC :(((
<kenansa29> helloo
<kenansa29> any girl for chat
<kenansa29> ?????????'
<james_w> that's generally not a good way to find them
<james_w> and this is *certainly* not the venue
<dholbach> james_w: haha :)
 * dholbach hugs james_w
 * dholbach hugs james_w
 * dholbach hugs james_w
<guest_sa> helloooo
<guest_sa> any girl for chat?
<mok0> Oooh guys did I come in at the wrong time?
<robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0916#Agenda
<czajkowski> robbiew: aloha
<robbiew> hi
<james_w> hi
<doko> hi
<evand1> hiya
<al-maisan> reverse("hello")
<robbiew> hi
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> slangasek: did you pass out?
<robbiew> guess so
<james_w> about 3 hours ago
<james_w> I doubt he is going to be here
<robbiew> completely acceptable
<robbiew> ;)
<robbiew> cjwatson: awake?
<robbiew> again...understandable if not
<mvo_> hello
<cjwatson> aye
<robbiew> okay...let's get this over with ;)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Alpha 6 Deliverables
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 6 Deliverables
<robbiew> mvo_: software-store is in...noticed that
<robbiew> ;)
<mvo_> yeah (or somehting like that)!
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> and the plan is to make a call for testing
<robbiew> and then assuming things go well...drop Add/Remove in Beta for it
<robbiew> anyone have concerns?
<robbiew> guess not
<robbiew> liw: is CJ ready to go?
<liw> robbiew, I need to get a few threading bugs fixed; I'm waiting for the PPA to build the packages so I can ask bug reporters to verify
<robbiew> okay...that's fine
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> evand1: can you remind me on the firefox thing in slideshow?
<robbiew> did that get worked out?
<evand1> I'm uploading a version with the icon unmodified, then speaking with Mozilla about the possibility of having a modified version with a reflection.
<robbiew> okay....the things we have to worry about...heh
<robbiew> did design ever comment on the slides?
 * robbiew thinks they look fine as is....but he's only a stupid engineering manager :/
<robbiew> evand1:^^
<evand1> nope
<evand1> not yet
<robbiew> ok...well, we've given them the chance
<evand1> I'll try to touch base with Matt T to see where things stand
<robbiew> okay, thnc
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Alpha 6 bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 6 bugs
<robbiew> probably too late for these now
<robbiew> but
<robbiew> bug 427709
<robbiew> that's just an MIR
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427709 in insserv "[MIR] insserv" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427709
<Keybuk> it's already in main
<cjwatson> it's not a6-critical since we promoted it to main in advance of the review
 * cjwatson has no opinion on whether a review is in fact needed
<robbiew> cool...okay
<robbiew> bug 430611
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430611 in dbus "dbus fails to start on clean boot using upstart job" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430611
<cjwatson> we've applied two fixes which may help with that
<robbiew> looks like that is still being investigated
<robbiew> ack
<cjwatson> one of them is moving libexpat to /lib from /usr/lib, since dbus-daemon links against it
<cjwatson> the other, which Keybuk uploaded earlier, is having dbus start on local-filesystems rather than virtual-filesystems, so that /var/lib is available
<cjwatson> I don't think we've yet had confirmation that that clears everything up, unless I missed it
<robbiew> right...nothing in the bug at least
<robbiew> thanks
<robbiew> and then there's bug 430496
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430496 in mountall "mountall blocks boot before cryptsetup is started" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430496
<robbiew> again...looks like still in the early stages
<cjwatson> that I'm not sure about, though I know Keybuk said he was aware of it ...
<robbiew> ack
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
<robbiew> 2/3 of my machines booted fine with A6 stuff from this morning :P
<cjwatson> I know I had some earlier this week, but I seem to have forgotten ...
<james_w> kerneloops is in and on by default and seems to be doing it's job nicely
<robbiew> whoohoo
<cjwatson> oh, there seems a fairly decent chance that we can get rid of the horrible /boot on NTFS bind-mount in Wubi
<evand1> I have PolicyKit support in usb-creator sorted.  It doesn't change the UI in any way, so it shouldn't need a UI exception.  And it fixes a few odd bugs that come with running as root.
<robbiew> awlright!
<james_w> (or at least has filed some bugs and sent reports to kerneloops.org without getting any bugs filed against kerneloops or apport)
<james_w> plus, thanks to al-maisan there are less than half a dozen open bzr-builddeb bugs
<mterry> :-/  hi
<al-maisan> :)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<robbiew> LinuxCon/Plumbers next week
<robbiew> anything else?
<mterry> ooh
<ScottK> Thanks to cjwatson for kicking off the archive rebuild test.
<ScottK> The good news is the failure rate is still less than 15%.
<mterry> Keybuk, I found some issues with the rsyslog upstart conversion, probably worth pushing before alpha 6?
<mterry> Keybuk, bug 430220
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430220 in rsyslog "[karmic] Upstart fixups" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430220
<mterry> Keybuk, otherwise logs don't rotate
<Keybuk> mterry: the invoke-rc.d reload thing should work - it'll send HUP
<Keybuk> just bitch about it a bit
<mterry> Keybuk, HUP doesn't work for rsyslog
<Keybuk> bs=1 must be an accident
<Keybuk> the fifo creation stuff has to be in rsyslog
<Keybuk> because rsyslog won't start until it exists ;)
<mterry> Keybuk, that's why I changed kmsg to 'starting rsyslog'
<Keybuk> changing to starting/stopped would work too though - you're right
<Keybuk> if you prefer it that way - that's fine by me ;)
 * mterry doesn't care, just seemed right to me
<robbiew> okie dokie....anything else
<mterry> Keybuk, wait, I don't see the HUP logic for a reload
<cjwatson> I milestoned bug 430607
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430607 in ubiquity "Selecting "Installing Ubuntu" starts the Live CD, but not Ubiquity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430607
<mterry> Keybuk, we can talk about that later though
<cjwatson> which is actually triaged/high and has "(needs conversion to Upstart)" appended to the title; silly bot
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> Scott helped me out getting the job definition right, so I'm just about to test that
<cjwatson> ScottK: good news, but a lot of packages numerically :-/
<ScottK> cjwatson: There was a slight bit of sarcasm buried in the "only 15%".  It's great news to have the rebuild.  The results concern me.
<cjwatson> ah, I did wonder if we were calibrated differently ;-)
<cjwatson> some kind of app where we could annotate failures with reasons would be nice
<Keybuk> probably glibc API breakages ;)
<al-maisan> cjwatson: hmm .. what did you have in mind?
<al-maisan> Could launchpad be extended to provide that?
<cjwatson> well, like http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html except that you can note a description of each failure to avoid duplicating work, a bit like the comments field in merge-o-matic
<cjwatson> I'm sure launchpad *could* be extended but it doesn't even provide a nice view of all failures at the moment, let alone providing a comment field, so a mashup is probably a more sensible short/medium-term approach
<al-maisan> right.
<ScottK> Keybuk: It's a lot of gcc 4.4 related failures.
<ScottK> that's the largest source anyway.
<ScottK> The ubuntuwire view does provide a nice tooltip for depwait to tell you what package it's waiting for on hover.
<robbiew> okay...silence is golden
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:37.
<robbiew> ;)
<robbiew> thanks all
<al-maisan> thanks!
<evand1> thanks
<marjo> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ara> hey all!
<davmor2> hello
<marjo> hi folks, thanks for joining us
<marjo> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<bdmurray> hi!
 * fader_ waves
<marjo> # Karmic Alpha6 Test Status -- ara (Ara Pulido)
<marjo> # SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<marjo> Does anybody want to add any agenda items?
<marjo> ok, Ara
<marjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Alpha 6 Test Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Alpha 6 Test Status
<ara> OK, Alpha 6 testing is a bit slowly now
<ara> There was a major issue with dbus not being run, and the session never started
<ara> they are also going to upload debian-installer, so -server is also going to be respin
<ScottK> There's no chance that the current images will be the final Alpha 6 one for any image.
<marjo> lp #430611
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430611 in dbus "dbus fails to start on clean boot using upstart job" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430611
<ara> So, people on Americas time zones... be prepared ;-)
<fader_> ara: Yeah, expecting a long night here :)
<sbeattie> heh, okay. :-)
<davmor2> expecting a long night here
<cjwatson> mixed reports with the fixes we've applied so far for 430611
<cjwatson> pitti conjectures a race, quite possibly accurately ...
<marjo> lp #430611
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430611 in dbus "dbus fails to start on clean boot using upstart job" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430611
<cjwatson> ... the one you were just talking about, yes :)
<marjo> ara anything else?
<ara> no, nothing else, just waiting for the new images
<marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<marjo> ok thx
<marjo> Steve...
<sbeattie> SRU Activity since 2009-09-09:
<sbeattie> * Jaunty: 5 new packages in -proposed (firefox-3.5, kadu, kdepim, tzdata, xulrunner-1.9.1) an
<sbeattie> d 5 pushed to -updates (automake1.10, automake1.9, glibc, sun-java5, tzdata)
<sbeattie> * Intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (tzdata) and 3 pushed to -updates (linux, sun-java5, tzdata)
<sbeattie> * Hardy: 2 new packages in -proposed (kdepim, tzdata) and 2 pushed to -updates (linux, tzdata)
<sbeattie> * Dapper: 1 package to -proposed and pushed to updates (langpacks)
<sbeattie> Thanks to Caleb Case, StÃ©phane Graber, dje, Micah Gersten,  Imre Gergely, skrimpy, makeitwork, and Giovanni Battista Salvietti for testing SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> As always, we welcome anybody interested in helping to test out SRUs, please feel free to join in #ubuntu-testing and ask questions..
<marjo> sbeattie: anything else?
<sbeattie> Nope, that's it.
<marjo> ok folks, are there any new topics you want to discuss?
<marjo> thx Steve
<ScottK> I think the failure rate in the current archive rebuild test is concerning.
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20090909
<ScottK> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html
<marjo> [TOPIC]  failure rate in the current archive rebuild test
<MootBot> New Topic:   failure rate in the current archive rebuild test
<ScottK> It's mostly tied to gcc 4.4 changes.
<ScottK> The concern is the stuff that is built, but can't be rebuilt is a risk for post-release support.
<ScottK> We had a MOTU training session last Friday on fixing FTBFS and another scheduled for this Friday, but it's a lot to fix.
<ScottK> This was discussed at the last release team meeting too.
<sbeattie> ScottK: do you think we need to be detecting these earlier in the cycle?
<ScottK> That'd be nice.
<ScottK> We have archive rebuilds in the development schedule, but AFAIK, they aren't being done.
<ScottK> This one was started when I asked for it.
<cjwatson> yeah, it's only quite recently that we've had the ability to do them ourselves rather than asking IS
<cjwatson> and so we haven't got into the habit
<ScottK> cjwatson: Maybe it should go on whatever checklist is used for the DIF milestone.
<sbeattie> How long does it take? Should it be done on a regular basis?
<ScottK> We're a week into this one and it's ~ half done
<cjwatson> ScottK: I think this is a bug in me, really
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I also think we need a more methodical approach to identifying and classifying the sources of failures.
<marjo> cjwatson: is there any new action to log here?
<marjo> [IDEA]  methodical approach to identifying and classifying the sources of failures
<MootBot> IDEA received:   methodical approach to identifying and classifying the sources of failures
<cjwatson> marjo: not one that isn't already on other lists (i.e. the release schedule)
<marjo> ok thx
<marjo> scottk: anything else on this topic?
<sbeattie> For the record, the build failure fixing session will be Fri Sep 18, at 1900 UTC in #ubuntu-motu
<ScottK> Just a plea for people to help us fix it.
<ScottK> Please show up.
<marjo> folks: anything other topics?
<ara> sbeattie, where can I find logs later on?
<fader_> marjo: I'd like to mention the checkbox USB stick stuff :)
<fader_> cr3 and I have been working with manjo on the kernel team to prepare a USB stick that will run Checkbox on peoples' machines at the Atlanta Linux Fest this weekend.
<marjo> [TOPIC]  checkbox USB stick
<MootBot> New Topic:   checkbox USB stick
<ScottK> ara: We'll do the session in #ubuntu-motu, so it'll be on irclogs.ubuntu.com
<fader_> http://atlantalinuxfest.org/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://atlantalinuxfest.org/
<sbeattie> ara: my guess would be the usual IRC log server, but someone going through after the fact and wiki-fying it as a howto would be useful.
<fader_> The idea is to get these tests run on many different systems and collect the results to see what works, what doesn't, and where we can most effectively focus resources to improve the user experience
<fader_> Hopefully we'll have some good news from this for a meeting in the future.
<ara> fader_, who is going to run this?
<bdmurray> speaking of checkbox, I ran into an issue yesterday where no tests were running and I reported a bug about it...
<cr3> ara: the festival is expecting 500 people, so hopefully they will be running this :)
<fader_> ara: manjo is running this at the fest.  He will have a number of USB sticks and some volunteers who will help people run the tests
<sbeattie> fader_: do you need help testing of the usb images?
<fader_> So we should get a pretty big chunk of results.
<cr3> bdmurray: I'd like to push another release today, I'll try to have a look at it. thanks for the report!
<fader_> sbeattie: manjo would be the right person to ask about that, but I believe at this point he has them finalized and ready to go
<marjo> fader_: anything else on this topic?
<fader_> marjo: Nope, unless people have questions
 * sbeattie wonders if the images should be made available somewhere for loco events, personal tests, etc.
<fader_> sbeattie: We've had similar ideas.  I'm not sure where the best location for this is but it's something we definitely want to consider.
<marjo> sbeattie: excellent idea; let's see how it goes at atlanta
<davmor2> could be good for GBJ too
<fader_> Or even possibly making checkbox more noticeable and accessible from the live environment, so that the CD can be used for this purpose
<bdmurray> its hard to put a CD in your pocket ;-)
<cr3> fader_: ideally, the checkbox shipped with the live cd should be as useful as the one currently shipped with manjo's usb key
<cr3> fader_: I don't like the idea of having another checkbox client floating around
<fader_> bdmurray: True, but if the USB creator is used from an ISO I'd expect you'd get the same results :)
<marjo> cr3: agree!
<fader_> cr3: +1; I would want to get everything merged into mainline checkbox before attempting to get it into the live environment
<cr3> marjo: I definately want to have a topic at uds about making this happen with the implication that the certification website be opened for receiving submissions from the public
<marjo> cr3: ok
<marjo> [ACTION] Include Checkbox topic at UDS
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Include Checkbox topic at UDS
<marjo> fader_: anything else on this topic?
<fader_> marjo: Nope, that's it
<fader_> Until we have results :)
<marjo> folks: any new topics?
<marjo> thx to everyone testing on Alpha6!
<marjo> if there's nothing else, then we're done
<marjo> for today
<marjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:33.
<fader_> Thanks all
<davmor2> Yay thanks
<sbeattie> Thanks.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-17
<DKcross> hello people
<serendipity> hello room... i have couple ques reg ubuntu ultimate edition
<serendipity> can someone ping me
<serendipity> whos willing to give info
<joaopinto> serendipity, this channel is not for support, and that is not an official ubuntu version
<serendipity> i just installed sometime back
<serendipity> i do not know that
<serendipity> can you suggest me where is the support room
<ogra> #ubuntu
<serendipity> ok thank u
<czajkowski> how do folks end up in here for support.....
<Daviey> czajkowski: Sorry, can't answer that question as it's a support question, which is offtopic for here. :)
 * ogra grins
<czajkowski> Daviey: I'll deal with you smart ass for that tomorrow!!
<dholbach> czajkowski: I'll never answer any of Daviey's questions again
<dholbach> . o O { smartass! }
<czajkowski> dholbach: I have to be a little nice to him, he's coming to Ireland tomorrow!
 * dholbach hugs Daviey ;-)
<czajkowski> :D
<Daviey> dholbach: I thought you stopped answering my questions already. :P
<dholbach> czajkowski: I know... I'm not going... I understand :)
<dholbach> Daviey: you just stopped asking questiong for whatever reason! :)
<Daviey> dholbach: I assumed i was on /ignore :)
<dholbach> Daviey: you're too good to miss
<Daviey> heh, ty.
<czajkowski> ogra: aloha there!
<ogra> hey hey
<popey> s/#ubuntu-meeting/#ubuntu-comedy/
<czajkowski> popey: shhh we're not to talk in here!
<fccf> Global Jam Meeting?
<Garfeild> hi all
<ianto> Garfeild: Hello there
<ulysses__> hi Garfeild
<mcisternas> hi, where is the meeting of ubuntu global jam?
<czajkowski> tomorrow evening i think
<ianto> According to Jorge it was today but I never saw it :-/
<ianto> I had an email from him
<czajkowski> hmm
<kelemengabor> http://identi.ca/notice/10227108
<ianto> Jono said in 10 mins at about 17:50 on Twitter ^
<czajkowski> nhaines: tmorrow
<czajkowski> in -classroom
<czajkowski> Also, a reminder that I will be conducting the last "How to Run a Jam"
<czajkowski> session tomorrow, 18 September on #ubuntu-classroom at 1500UTC. Look
<czajkowski> forward to seeing you there!
<ianto> kelemengabor: How long have you been in this channel?
<mcisternas> http://twitter.com/jonobacon/status/4059180936
<ianto> I can in here about 7 or so minutes after the supposed start time :-/
<kelemengabor> ianto: about an hour, and nothing happened
<ianto> Then Jorge sent an email to the loco-contacts list at 19:17
<ianto> Due to the overwhelming amount of participation in today's Global Jam
<ianto> meeting we will be holding one next week, 24 September at 1800UTC on
<ianto> #ubuntu-classroom.
<ianto> I haven't seen a single thing!
<ianto> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2009-September/003614.html
<ianto> Anyone having any idea about what happened? :-/
<mcisternas> hmm... anyone know what happens?
<ianto> Well there was an "overwhelming amount of participation", so it must've been done somewhere! :S
<ianto> The tweet and identi.ca post both say here #ubuntu-meeting
<mhall119|work> I've been in here all day
<mhall119|work> saw nothing at 1800 UTC
<nhaines> czajkowski: hmm?  :)
<czajkowski> ndsup?
<czajkowski> nhaines: sup
<mcisternas> Hmm.. I think it must be a mistake. I imagine that the meeting should be tomorrow, according to Jorge Castro's mail
<mhall119|work> I thought Jono posted that it was today
<ianto> mcisternas: Jorge said that there was a meeting today in his email
<ianto> "Due to the overwhelming amount of participation in today's Global Jam"
<ianto> meeting
<nhaines> czajkowski: you pinged me about -classroom  :)
<czajkowski> nhaines: must have been a mis tab
<czajkowski> sorry
<czajkowski> jono tweeted also
<MrBacon> and now we wait
<nhaines> czajkowski: no worries.  :)  (sorry for the slow reply: at work)
<czajkowski> np
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-18
<pitti> hello
 * apw waves
<Riddelll> why it must be time for another release meeting
<apw> could it be, could it be
 * fader_ waves.
<robbiew> ah....the anticipation
<ogra> moop moop
<ttx> \o
<apw> robbiew, pgraner is on the road, so i am covering kernel
<robbiew> 30 sec....wait for it
<njpatel> hey hey
<marjo> marjo waves
<robbiew> oh....15sec
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-09-18
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
<robbiew> I think all are done
<robbiew> so moving on
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Team Reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Reports
<cjwatson> cr3: can you confirm that that unaligned pointer bug in grub2 is now fixed for you?
<cr3> cjwatson: I'm still getting a problem reported in bug #432497, which I'm not sure whether it's a hardware problem or a compatibility problem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432497 in linux "Installing Karmic 20090917 on Acer Aspire One freezes on detecting filesystems" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432497
<robbiew> cr3: what's the model number?
<cjwatson> cr3: ok, entirely separate (and probably not a kernel bug)
 * robbiew has an Aspire One 
<cjwatson> oh, looks like it is a kernel bug actually
<fader_> robbiew: It's an A110
<cjwatson> that ata driver ain't happy
<cr3> robbiew: AOA 110
<cjwatson> it's saying "media error" rather a lot
<robbiew> okay..I'll check mine...thinks it's different
<cjwatson> cr3: so if you can't install, then presumably you do not know whether the grub2 bug is fixed
<cr3> cjwatson: but for the sake of this action item, you're right: entirely different. I'm not getting the grub2 problem I was having before anymore
<cr3> cjwatson: I could install before, I can't install anymore. so, good point, you're right
<robbiew> well since QA is already chatting away
<robbiew> [TOPIC] QA
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA
<robbiew> :D
<marjo> hi folks
<marjo> * Hardware testing
<marjo> We have 2 open bugs against hardware:
<marjo> #432497 - unable to install on Acer Aspire One
<marjo> #431970 - internal microphone not working on HP Mini Bixby and Toshiba NB100
<marjo> There are a couple of netbooks that are untested; Marc Tardif is testing
<marjo> these today and will report any bugs found.
<marjo> specs status next
<cr3> marjo: one of the laptops seems to have hardware problems, so we might need to blacklist it
<ScottK> o/
<marjo> cr3: ok
<marjo> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption
<marjo> On Launchpad's edge server any urls that contain +filebug and ubuntu
<marjo> in them are now redirected to the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs wiki page.
<marjo> That page encourages bug reporters to use apport for reporting bugs about Ubuntu.
<marjo> Further information regarding the change can be found at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1908.
<marjo> Multiple data points are currently being monitored to measure the success of the change.
 * ScottK has filed multiple bugs about it already
<marjo> ok thx
<marjo> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-extended-audio-testing
<marjo> Extended audio tests are complete. Almost ready to perform the automated audio testing on a daily basis.
<robbiew> kewl
<marjo> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-metrics-based-testing-phase-2
<marjo> cr3 explored Phoronix test definitions and determined appropriate schema to extend the current concept of test results to support their tests
<marjo> any Qs on specs?
<robbiew> so are they all "implemented"?
<robbiew> status wise
<marjo> robbiew: yes
<robbiew> cool...thnx
<marjo> implemented is implied; just reporting current status
<marjo> * Alpha 6 test results
<marjo> Marjo will send out the full report via email. Here are the highlights.
<marjo> Bugs that affected testing effectiveness:
<marjo> # 430611 , dbus fails to start on clean boot using upstart job ,
<marjo> dbus (Ubuntu) , Critical , Fix Released
<marjo> dbus (Ubuntu Karmic) , Critical , Fix Released
<marjo> # 431786 , auto-resize fails due to fsck error on superblock ,
<marjo> ubiquity (Ubuntu) , High , New
<marjo> ubiquity (Ubuntu Karmic) , High , New
<marjo> # 427709 , [MIR] insserv ,
<marjo> insserv (Ubuntu) , Critical , Fix Committed
<marjo> insserv (Ubuntu Karmic) , Critical , Fix Committed
<pitti> (insserv is fix released)
<robbiew> whoohoo...thnx pitti
<marjo> pitti: thx!
<marjo> excellent!
<marjo> Test Failure Analysis
<marjo> 113 test cases were run. 17 of them were marked as FAIL.
<marjo> Failure Rate = 15%
<marjo> that's all i have unless there's interest in each product line status
<robbiew> any questions for QA?
<pitti> are many of the failures due to general bugs like boot changes or hw specific?
<marjo> pitti: in general yes
<pitti> i. e. was a6 a major bug surge due due to that?
<marjo> boot changes, e.g.
<pitti> "a or b" -> yes .. which?
 * ogra grins :)
<lool> marjo: I was wondering whether you consider tests against all images we produce for an alpha including superseded ones or just the latest image
<marjo> a
<pitti> ogra: well, it's logically correct :)
<marjo> lool: just the latest images
<lool> marjo: I think it would be good to include at least bug stats for previous images
<marjo> lool: what's the objective for that suggestion?
<ogra> lool wants to see progress :)
<lool> I mean I might find a bug in the first image I test and not keep mentionning it in all subsequent respins
<marjo> lool: ah, yes
<lool> So I might be filing 10 bugs in the first test image and 3 more in the second
<ogra> oh, i often do that too
<lool> marjo: Ok thanks for considering for next milestone then
<ScottK> And if they are fixed, it'll look good.  If they aren't, it's important to know.
<marjo> lool: ok i understand; let me work with the team on that
<lool> ScottK: exactly
<marjo> scottk: agree
<robbiew> thanks marjo
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Desktop
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop
<pitti> This week we made some good progress in both fixing RC bugs, and also reviewing our list for bugs which should also be RC (that's why we got so many new ones on the list this week).
<pitti> The licensing question was settled, we could upload new xsplash artwork and update copyright files for the other artwork related packages. This also unblocks the new usplash artwork, which still needs to get integrated (will take some time to calculate picture positions, etc.)
<pitti> Both feature and DX/OLS integration wise we are pretty much done. We'll move to full steam bug fixing mode from now on and will LART anyone who wants to change major things now. :-)
<pitti> X-wise, ATI cards should finally work again, they were terribly broken for a while. My gut feeling is that X is again in good shape, there are only some reports about occasional freezes on some intel chips after suspend.
<pitti> bug/spec stats and planned changes are on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<apw> pitti, were those intel hangs you 'feel' before or after the recent mesa fix?
<pitti> apw: they've been there forever
 * ogra had them too, and for me they seem to be gone now 
<apw> that was triggerng a lot of suspend/resume issues
<pitti> I filed that upstream
<rickspencer3_> apw: so "before"
<apw> and should now be fixed
<pitti> apw: I tried your kernel, but it didn't fix it
<ogra> pitti, mesa
<pitti> likewise
<apw> the kernel wouldn't have no, it was a mesa bug blowing the gpu
<pitti> that mesa (as it is in karmic) with karmic kernel still crashes
<pitti> I also get the screen corruptions again, but that's just fixed in apw's test kernel I think
<apw> ok do we have a bug for tha tone
<pitti> I filed it upstream, yes
<pitti> freedesktop bug 23923
<ubottu> Error: Error getting Freedesktop bug #23923: NotPermitted
<pitti> bleh
<pitti> they asked me for some debug info
<pitti> (why did they make that private?)
<apw> perhaps its a security issue
<pitti> it wasn't even investigated that far yet
<pitti> they asked me to test the patch which you have in your kernel, andn now for gpu/reg dump before/after suspend
<pitti> anyway, if someone is interested, I can certainly subscribe them to the bug
<apw> please
<pitti> done
<pitti> yes, they ticked "security/subscribers only"
<pitti> any other questions wrt. desktop, to get away from the technical details again?
<Riddelll> I have a wee Kubuntu update if wanted
<pitti> please
<Riddelll> KubuntuKarmicXsplash is done
<Riddelll> KubuntuKarmicNetbook got moved to implemented
<Riddelll> jockey-kde needs some checking
<Riddelll> different install methods need checking: oem config, dvd, upgrade
<Riddelll> social from the start components need double checking to make sure they work
<Riddelll> and otherwise we're all good
<pitti> jockey-kde is misbehaving?
<ScottK> apport-kde is problematic too.
<pitti> apport-kde is acting up, so I heard; Yuri had a fix, but I didn't seee it yet
<Riddelll> pitti: dunno I only tried it once and it didn't work until I installed jockey-gtk
<Riddelll> oh yes forgot about apport-kde
 * ScottK got it to work in a live environment, but not after install (couldn't find the drivers)
<ScottK> (jockey-kde)
<robbiew> anything else for Desktop?
<robbiew> thanks pitti
<robbiew> [TOPIC] DX
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX
<ScottK> With luck we'll get out final big U/I push for Kubuntu Netbook this weekend
<ScottK> (sorry, slow typing)
<robbiew> lol..no prob
<robbiew> anyone here from DX?  dbarth?
<Riddelll> agateau's libindicate 2 support is in for qt/kde bits
<davidbarth> sorry, yes, here
<davidbarth> the release status report is up at the usual:
<ScottK> Updated quassel patches are uploaded too (from upstream git)
<davidbarth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> of note: more fixes to get applications to use the new v2 of the indicator-messages api
<pitti> new xsplash yummy
<robbiew> whoohoo!
<davidbarth> and also more indicator-session fixes to reflect the status of IM clients, even if they are started after the session menu (which was almost always the case...)
<robbiew> cool
<davidbarth> and xsplash artwork goodness thanks to Jane and the Design team
<robbiew> yes!
 * robbiew is tired from all the throbber complaints
<davidbarth> some nasty crashers with n-osd, that we're still looking into
<robbiew> now we will get new ones :)
<robbiew> ok
<davidbarth> ;)
<robbiew> any questions for the DX team?
<robbiew> ok, thanks davidbarth
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Mobile
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile
<ogra> hey, thats me :)
<robbiew> :)
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogra> armel:
<ogra> - dove images are working and installable now
<ogra> - oo.o is in a scary state
<ogra> - imx51 successfully made A6 with no arch specific regressions
<ogra> - we're having high hopes for the outcome of the kernel sprint ;)
<ogra> moblin-remix:
<ogra> - currently broken, blocked by a missing upstream, but we have a path forward and things are in progress
 * lool thanks ogra for taking up this week's report
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogra> :)
<robbiew> so we're changing the UNR icon theme, huh?
<lool> Yeah
<robbiew> bug 430277
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430277 in unr-meta "ubuntuone icon is colorful while the other panel icons are dark" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430277
<lool> In jaunty it was the same as desktop
<ogra> yes, will need a freeze exception indeed
<lool> in karmic we tried using humanity instead of human
<lool> but that has many issues
<lool> Issues: http://paste.ubuntu.com/273559/
<lool> (From a mail to ubuntu-doc@ warning about the change)
<robbiew> will that affect the networking indicator?  currently it's hard to tell when you are and are not connected to wifi
<lool> robbiew: it will work the same as in the Ubuntu Desktop Edition once we revert back to Human
<lool> robbiew: So yes it will fix that bug
<robbiew> nice
<pitti> (the ethernet icon is ugly as well, asking design team now)
<ogra> ++
<robbiew> lol
<apw> its wider too so things shuffle
<robbiew> you know it's a solid product when we start complaining about the ethernet icon :P
<pitti> it looks more like a Pacman ghost than an ethernet thingy
<pitti> robbiew: the polish, man, the polish! :-)
<ogra> yeap, absolutely
<robbiew> indeed!
<robbiew> okay...anything else for or from Mobile?
<lool> apw: ack
<pitti> mpt| pitti, ivanka and kwwii are going to sort it.
<pitti> screw boot failures, we get nice icons back!
<robbiew> lol
<pitti> (SCNR)
<robbiew> thnx ogra
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel
<apw> ..
<apw> Overall kernel team status is summarised at the URL below, including the bugs called out in the agenda.  There are a number of arm bugs listed most of which appear to be on progress for resolution.  The other new ones are rfkill and hotkey related.
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<apw> In the last week a number of regressions have been nailed which were affecting Intel graphics corruption and hangs.  We have also closed out a large number of suspend/resume regressions related to the GPU hangs, as well as to bluetooth and GSM support.
<apw> All the items which impact the distro release schedule seem to be basically complete, mostly little pieces incomplete.  ARM continues to progress with the imx51 branch now up to v2.6.31 and integrating the latest updates from Freescale.  We continue to target regression-potential bugs.
<apw> ..
<robbiew> questions for Kernel?
<robbiew> cool...thanks apw
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Server
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server
<ttx> o/
<robbiew> ttx: sorry...but added a few more bugs to the agenda late
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus was refreshed a couple seconds ago
<ttx> to try to cover for the very late agenda changes :P
<robbiew> they were tagged eucalyptus and milestoned...but not targeted
<ttx> I think I did that. Let's see
<robbiew> if that was on purpose...then feel free to untarget
<ttx> 418130: Karmic EC2 images don't use a karmic kernel is now completed
<ttx> with aklpha6 release, we are using a karmic kernel on our EC2 images.
<robbiew> whoohoo!
<robbiew> that's a big accomplishment...good work guys
<ttx> thanks to everyone involved in that.
<robbiew> kudos to rtg
<apw> and jj
<ttx> the other bugss are all mentioned on the status page.
<ttx> we already fixed (or committed fixes for) a couple
<ttx> that said, there are still plenty to fix, plus probably some others that are critical and unreported.
<ttx> I intend to work on that first-user-experience eucalyptus bugs next week, time permitting
<ttx> to make sure the bugs reflect what we really need to fix to make it usable.
<ttx> About alpha6, we had an issue with the AWS page content at the last minute
<robbiew> heh
<ttx> with the few people having the keys to that kingdom not present
<ttx> I think we need to have one release team member empowered with this mythical key
<ttx> to make sure it doesn't happen again
<cjwatson> where is that - on www.ubuntu.com or elsewhere?
<robbiew> there was discussion of adding someone from the server team to the release team
<ttx> cjwatson: it's an EC2 account
<robbiew> elsewhere...Amazon
<ttx> all in all we are trying to finalize the EC2 release process for beta
<ttx> and automate it as much as possible
<robbiew> I figured we would just make smoser carry a pager and laptop with 3G :P
<ttx> robbiew: that would do it as well.
<robbiew> any questions for Server?
<robbiew> thanks ttx
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Security
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security
 * robbiew added this one...figure they deserve their own topic ;)
 * jdstrand feels slightly unprepared
<robbiew> no worries
<ttx> jdstrand: it always feels like that.
<jdstrand> and by 'slightly' I mean totally
<jdstrand> robbiew: what are you lokking for here?
<jdstrand> looking
<ogra> more safety ?
<ogra> locks and chains ?
<robbiew> current status on bugs targeted for the release
<jdstrand> ah
<robbiew> any blueprints that are still not implemented
<robbiew> that's it
<jdstrand> well, afaik, all our features are either in or deferred
<robbiew> cool and I only saw bug 429872
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429872 in tcpdump "/sbin/apparmor_parser: ... Profile doesn't conform to protocol" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429872
<jdstrand> mdeslaur has a FFe out for his apache2 profile
<robbiew> ah, okay thnx
<jdstrand> robbiew: jj is handling that one
<robbiew> cool
<robbiew> anyone have questions for the Security team?
<robbiew> do you feel safe?
<robbiew> :P
<jdstrand> there are some libvirt/apparmor integration bugs that I am working on, but I'll fix these once I get my upstream patch finished and rebase the libvirt patch on it
<robbiew> okay...are those targeted to Karmic?
<jdstrand> I uploaded a workaround for bug #431090 this morning, but it needs the real fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431090 in libvirt "libvirt apparmor profile is preventing libvirt from running eucalyptus VMs" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431090
<jdstrand> robbiew: these only just came up this morning, so I need to file the bugs
<jdstrand> I have a plan to fix them, and know how, just need to do it
<robbiew> ack...hmm...so is "Fix released" the real state then (for 431090)
<jdstrand> robbiew: it is for 'eucalyptus VMs'
<robbiew> ah
<robbiew> okay
<ScottK> Sounds like jdstrand needs fewer meetings ...
<ScottK> ;-)
<jdstrand> robbiew: but it isn't for other people specifying a kernel, serial console or initrd
<robbiew> jdstrand: okay, thanks
<jdstrand> robbiew: anyhoo, I have gotten feedback from my upstreaming work, and when I do that, this will magically be fixed
<robbiew> sounds good
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Foundations
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations
 * robbiew scrolls through the recent boot bugs :/
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic just updated; I won't enumerate all the bugs here, as we just gained a lot thanks to Robbie running the meeting and dumping on his own team. ;-)
<cjwatson> Some held-over grub2 bugs, ditto eucalyptus, and some more causes of filesystem timestamps being wrong and causing spurious fscks.
<cjwatson> Most current bugs are related to the boot extravaganza that landed on Tuesday; the landing was a bit rough but it has mostly settled down now. The remaining problems are largely from people with complex filesystem setups which mountall doesn't quite handle yet, and we're continuing to work on those.
<cjwatson> Regarding boot performance, the reference machine is now 7 seconds faster; some cases like ogra's ARM board are very substantially faster, on the order of 45 seconds; some cases have not been sped up at all yet, but at least we have a better foundation for future work now (the 10-second target is for 10.04).
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> Wubi is still not quite working with grub2, but we're very close.
<cjwatson> (EOF)
<robbiew> there are some instances of slower boots with slow HDDs...however Keybuk is on top of those
<robbiew> sreadahead needs "tweaking" ;)
<cjwatson> oh, yeah, there's an sreadahead bug in the status
<robbiew> questions for Foundations?
<pitti> sreadahead> seems it's not doing anything at all here
<pitti> which might explain the boot time increase?
<ogra> pitti, run top directly after boot on a slow machine :)
<pitti> I know, it's running for minutes without using any CPU or I/O
<ogra> it runs quite long and eats 60-98% CPU
<robbiew> bug 432089
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432089 in sreadahead "performs poorly on slow HDD" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432089
<ogra> yeah
<cjwatson> it is *intended* to be useful on hdds
<cjwatson> but yeah, not working quite so well just now
<robbiew> when I last spoke to Keybuk, he said it had to do with the kernel stopping the I/O
<robbiew> because it was too much (during the sreadahead profiling)
<ogra> we should just switch from CDs to SSDs on shipit
<ogra> solves all size probs as well ;)
<robbiew> he had an idea about working around it...was going to discuss with gregkh next week at Plumbers
<robbiew> thnx cjwatson
<robbiew> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<ScottK> o/
<ScottK> I think we got our last transition close to done.
<ScottK> The various clutter packages landed way out of sync.
<ScottK> FFe for that is approved and moving along nicely.
<robbiew> ok
<ScottK> The biggest concern is still the FTBFS rate on the rebuild test.
<ScottK> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20090909/+packages
<ScottK> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html
<ScottK> It's running above 10% and that's pretty scary.
<ScottK> We did have the training session last week and that helped.  Another is sched for today.
 * sistpoty|work hides
<ScottK> A fair number of FTBFS fixes are appearing in the sponsorship queue.
<ScottK> I'd like to ask people to try and get those into the archive asap when they are sponsoring.
<ScottK> IMO this is a big deal for post-release supportability.
<jdstrand> imo too
<sistpoty|work> *nod*
<ScottK> I also note that the IA64 buildd's are still dead due to dbus needing to be ported to ia64.
<cjwatson> fwiw I always go for build failures first since they tend to be easy as well
<ScottK> I don't think anyone in the community is up for that.
<ScottK> I think either Canoncial needs to allocate resources to fix it (it may be planned, I don't know) or we need to kill the port.
<ScottK> For similar reasons ....
<ScottK> That's all I have.
<sistpoty|work> do we have access to an ia64 box somewhere?
<sistpoty|work> we==community, sorry
<ScottK> Not that I know of.
<sistpoty|work> bleh, that looks even sillier
<sistpoty|work> :/
 * sistpoty|work doesn't have anything to add
<ScottK> There is a silo patch for sparc waiting for sponsorship that might get DI built on sparc for once.
<ScottK> It'd be nice to get that in too.
 * ScottK just remembered.
<robbiew> questions for MOTU?
<cjwatson> I *may* be able to have a look at dbus on ia64 in my (ha ha) spare time, but can't promise anything
<robbiew> lol
<sistpoty|work> thanks cjwatson :)
<robbiew> [ACTION] cjwatson to *possibly* look at dbus on ia64
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to *possibly* look at dbus on ia64
<robbiew> thanks ScottK
<bittin_> is the Edubuntu meeting atm?
<robbiew> no
<robbiew> anything else from anyone else? :)
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:15.
<robbiew> 15min back to ya!
<bittin_> ah its Karmic meeting as i don't run Karmic i should shut up =)
<ScottK> It was the release team meeting.
<lool> thanks
<ogra> thanks#
<sistpoty|work> thanks
<pitti> thanks everyone
<ace_suares> meeting edubuntu ?
<ace_suares> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:11. The chair is ace_suares.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<highvoltage> Good evening.
<alkisg> Good evening everyone
<ace_suares> {TOPIC] roll call
<MootBot> New Topic:  roll call
<highvoltage> Well I guess it's the 3 of us
<ace_suares> PRESENT
 * highvoltage 
<highvoltage> ace_suares: I'm in a slight hurry so I'll just jump with what I need to say, ok?
<ace_suares> hmm seems the mootbot only sees highvoltage.. alkisg not..
<ace_suares> okay
<highvoltage> We have an alpha build!
 * alkisg remains hidden :)
<highvoltage> our first one, actually
<highvoltage> should've been #6
<alkisg> PRESENT
<ace_suares> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Alpha build (DVD)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Edubuntu Alpha build (DVD)
<highvoltage> if my internet connection was a little bit slower yesterday we wouldn't have an edubuntu release for karmic
 * ace_suares applaudes highvoltage to have made that DVD !
<highvoltage> that's quite scary, so we need to have more testers on call for the next milestones
<ace_suares> PRESENT
<highvoltage> ace_suares: I didn't make it, I just tested it. if no one tests it, the release manager doesn't release it
<highvoltage> ace_suares: the build system builds them every day
<ace_suares> highvoltage: oh! didn't know that. As you know my intartubesnetweb is VERY slow and it's a hell to download and test.
<ace_suares> I'm so glad you did.
<highvoltage> The disc is in quite a good shape currently
<ace_suares> Laserjock told that he has it down to 3.2 GB so that's good!
<highvoltage> the biggest problems I noticed was things that will get fixed from the ubuntu side anyway
<highvoltage> we'll have to put some work into artwork and making it look nicer for karmic+1, imo
<highvoltage> I couldn't download the amd64 iso in time, my internet connection was just too slow to get it down in time
<ace_suares> so there won;t be a release for amd64?
<highvoltage> so we might not have an amd64 release, we have to check on that whether it's possible
<ScottK> BTW, once you've downloaded one, you can use rysnc to update your image without having to redownload the entire ISO.
<ace_suares> right
<ace_suares> ScottK: rsync or zsync?
<highvoltage> ace_suares: probably not. maybe we can have an exception since it shares so much with the ubuntu dvd and if we test it properly now
<ScottK> I know rsync works.
<highvoltage> ScottK: I used rsync, there's still a big diff between the i386 and amd64 dvd images
<ace_suares> ScottK: okay I'll try hat I used zsync but it segfaulted!
<ace_suares> hat=that
<ScottK> highvoltage: True, but if you download early and rsync regularly it's not so hard to keep up.
<ScottK> It doesn't matter so much then if you have a slow link.
<ace_suares> si what's the next step for testing?
<highvoltage> ScottK: indeed, we had *massive* changes yesterday, so I had to sync almost half of the DVD for i386 and I have just a 4mbit DSL line
<ace_suares> *just* 4Mb !? wow. I have 'just' 256k most of the time..!
<highvoltage> ace_suares: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
<ace_suares> there's this page: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<highvoltage> ace_suares: the beta release is on 1 October
<ace_suares> Where can we look at the seeds?
<highvoltage> ace_suares: we'll have to test the images built for that to have it released as beta images
<ScottK> If you want to have a amd64 beta, I'd suggest asking the release team to set up the ISO tracker for a special Edubuntu test and get one through the test cycle in advance of the actual beta.
<highvoltage> ace_suares: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.karmic
<ace_suares> [ACTION] test for BETA release way for 1 oct
<MootBot> ACTION received:  test for BETA release way for 1 oct
<highvoltage> ScottK: that's a very good idea, thanks, we'll do so
<cjwatson> ace_suares: IIRC zsync sometimes has a bit of trouble with DVD-sized images
<ace_suares> [ACTION] If you want to have a amd64 beta, I'd suggest asking the release team to set up the ISO tracker for a special Edubuntu test and get one through the test cycle in advance of the actual beta.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  If you want to have a amd64 beta, I'd suggest asking the release team to set up the ISO tracker for a special Edubuntu test and get one through the test cycle in advance of the actual beta.
<ace_suares> [IDEA] then put a note of that on the cdimage site, it advertises zsync now. Advertise rsync instead. Maybe a wiki page must be made for it!
<MootBot> IDEA received:  then put a note of that on the cdimage site, it advertises zsync now. Advertise rsync instead. Maybe a wiki page must be made for it!
<highvoltage> we'll have to start looking at the todo items for the release as well. release notes, updating the website, updating installation information (since that will work differently now)
<ace_suares> [PRESENT]
<highvoltage> I suppose more people already use rsync as apposed to zsync currently
<highvoltage> s/suppose/think/
<ace_suares> highvoltage: but it says use zsync and that's a wrong advice - if indeed zsync can not handle large images.
<highvoltage> ok, feel free to take it up :)
<ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Release/9.10/Tasks
<ace_suares> any more on the dvd!?
<highvoltage> I have to leave in about 3 minutes, but basically we're more or less ok now for the first time this release
<ace_suares> great work, thaks highvoltage
<highvoltage> we can probably squash a few bugs still, and we can improve things website/documentation/community wise somewhat
<ace_suares> ..and LaserJock
<ace_suares> [TOPIC] Weekly updates
<highvoltage> I think we should schedule a meeting when he can at least connect using one of the freenode web interfaces from work
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly updates
<ace_suares> [TOPIC] meeting schedule
<MootBot> New Topic:  meeting schedule
<highvoltage> or perhaps we can even do an impromptu meeting when he pops in again
<ace_suares> just go ahead and reschedule the meetings, highvoltage
<highvoltage> ace_suares: ok
<highvoltage> well, thank you ace_suares and alkisg, I need to be off
<ace_suares> [ACTION] highvoltage reschedules meeting so LaserJock can be there
<MootBot> ACTION received:  highvoltage reschedules meeting so LaserJock can be there
<alkisg> thanks highvoltage!
<ace_suares> bye highvoltage
<highvoltage> (and thanks ScottK and cjwatson for feedback as well)
<highvoltage> bye!
 * sbeattie is using zsync to download dvds off of cdimages, and modulo one recent bug fix, it works.
<ace_suares> [TOPIC] zsync
<MootBot> New Topic:  zsync
<ace_suares> sbeattie: I used zsync to download the iso, and then when I wanted to update, it segfaulted.
<ace_suares> so you are saying zsync is safe to use?
<sbeattie> ace_suares: it is in karmic
<ace_suares> sbeattie: i might have an older version then
<ace_suares> does anyone have other points he or she wants to talk about?
<sbeattie> ace_suares: bug 420931 recently fixed in karmic, which is where I was seeing segv's when updating dvds.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420931 in zsync "zsync crashes with SIGSEGV when updating dvds" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420931
<ace_suares> sbeattie: thanks
<ace_suares> sbeattie: we could use a backport then :-)
<ace_suares> we are trying to test the 9.10 dvd but with our OS being 9.04 or lower and that does have that bug.
<sbeattie> ace_suares: a backport should be trivial, an SRU might be a little more work.
<ace_suares> sbeattie: way over my head :-)
 * sbeattie will look into it.
<ace_suares> [ACTION] sbeattie will look into backporting zsync to 9.04 so we can reliably use it to test Edubuntu DVD's. rsync also works as a workaround.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sbeattie will look into backporting zsync to 9.04 so we can reliably use it to test Edubuntu DVD's. rsync also works as a workaround.
<ace_suares> thanks sbeattie for fixing rsync!
<ace_suares> sorry zsync
<ScottK> sbeattie: Feel free to ping me when you need backport approval.
<ace_suares> 10 minutes left, any more points?
<ace_suares> closing the meeting
<ace_suares> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:57.
<alkisg> Thank you ace_suares :)
<ace_suares> Epharisto, alkisg
<alkisg> ;)
<alsroot> hi all
<flint> Is Edubuntu meeting here now?
<flint> Did I get the time or date wrong for the Edubuntu meeting?
<flint> highvoltage, Jonathan, when does the Edubuntu meeting start?  I have some great news!
<flint> Listen folks, my wife ran out of gasoline on the road, so I gotta go rescue her.  I would like to introduce to the Edubuntu community ALSROOT.
<flint> Alsroot has completed the port of sugar to ubuntu!!!!!!  I wish I could stay for the meeting, but duty (or my wife) calls!
<flint> alsroot, I will be here just not online. Tell the nice folks in this community how you have just set education on ubuntu on fire.  Thanks for being here!
 * alsroot hanging around all time
<ScottK> flint and alsroot: You missed the meeting by ~4 hours.
<alsroot> heh
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-19
<highvoltage> flint: you missed it by about 3 hours at the time you asked!
<highvoltage> (or more like 4 and a half hours)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-20
<YoBoY> good morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<Vasilichihihih> ÃÃ¡Ã¢Ã¬ ÃÃ¢Ã Ã Ã£Ã¡Ã¡ÃÃÃ¯ÃÃ«Ã§ÃÃ«Ã?
<Vasilichihihih> hi
<Vasilichihihih> there are Russian?
<Vasilichihihih> peaple!!!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-21
<chikilis> buenas tardes como c encuentran
<chikilis> una pregunta, que formato de disco debo tener para instalar ubuntu??
<chikilis> hola
<willian> NESECITO AYUDA CON UBUNTU
<willian> ALGUIEN QUE ME OUEDA AYUDAR
<willian> POR FAVOR
<willian> AYUDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
<maco> para espaÃ±ol, va a #ubuntu-es por favor
<willian> POR DONDE NO SE
<maco> escribe:  /join #ubuntu-es
<easter_egg> o.o
<maco> y usa pequeÃ±o letras
<maco> doh gone
<maco> had to look up "letters"
<ajmitch> for some reason -meeting tends to attract people using a web-based client, is there some page that has it set as the default channel?
<persia> ajmitch, I think #ubuntu is just really busy, and lots of pages indicate #ubuntu-meeting is where various groups gather (yes, at specific times, but that's not always clear to newcomers to IRC)
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:01. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> (sorry for being slightly late, had some issues getting it to assiocate with my AP)
<davidm> G'day
<mpoirier> o/
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100921
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100921
<NCommander> Who's about?
<dyfet> where about everyone's whereabouts?
 * rsalveti waves
 * GrueMaster groans lifelessly.
 * NCommander pokes ogra
<ogra> ouch
<NCommander> [topic] Action Items from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items from last meeting
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to smash antimony's crontab's with a big large golden brick
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to smash antimony's crontab's with a big large golden brick
<NCommander> Did it, crontab is normal, and all dove images are being ubilt again
<NCommander> [topic] EVERYONE to put their status on the wiki
<MootBot> New Topic:  EVERYONE to put their status on the wiki
 * NCommander did it
 * rsalveti just did it
<rsalveti> for this week :-)
 * ogra did it
<ogra> dyfet, ugh
<ogra> dyfet, where do you see telepathy-glib fail again ?
<NCommander> right, everyone make sure its there for last week, and do it for this week too
<ogra> (its not on the ftbfs list)
<NCommander> moving on
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
 * ogra notes that "this week" means last monday to last friday
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<ogra> by an old definition we had
<ogra> (just for the new guys on the team :) )
<dyfet> ogra: I saw it in the bug report you commented on
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10.html
<ogra> dyfet, i asked you about 2 months ago to talk to upstream and pointed you to the bug i just commented on (and now assigned to you)
<ogra> to make sure it gets fixed upstream
<ogra> please read what i wrote again
<ogra> on that bug
<dyfet> ok
<ogra> rsalveti, EDID starts getting urgent if you still want to have it in the release
<ogra> RC freeze will be soon
<NCommander> [action] dyfet to talk with upstream to merge fix and work with ogra on it
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to talk with upstream to merge fix and work with ogra on it
<rsalveti> ogra: yep, I know, I'm working on it just for this week
<ogra> and i'm about to switch to linaro u-boot
<rsalveti> or go for release, or postponed with a solution
<ogra> NCommander, no
<rsalveti> ogra: don't worry
<ogra> NCommander, dyfet has a bug task for it, i'm not involved
<NCommander> [action] dyfet to talk with upstream to merge fix
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to talk with upstream to merge fix
<ogra> NCommander, no
<NCommander> no?
<ogra> just dont make any action item for that
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> [action] disregard last two actions
<MootBot> ACTION received:  disregard last two actions
<ogra> there is a bug with a request from upstream to test their fix
<ogra> thats all
<ogra> bugt is assigned with a clear reqest what to do ... no need for an action
<NCommander> [topic] Assigned Bugs (http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Assigned Bugs (http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html)
 * NCommander has a few for dove installer issues, but nothing critical
<ogra> how about the assigned bugs
<NCommander> anything else on this topic or can I move on?
<ogra> you had an action to clear that up
<ogra> for the vintage thumb2 issues you dont plan to work on
<NCommander> ogra: gah, whoops.
<ogra> :)
<NCommander> [action] NCommande rto clear out assigned bugs (c/o)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommande rto clear out assigned bugs (c/o)
<ogra> everyone else ... please look over that list
<ogra> unassign bugs you wont work on
<ogra> (and leave a comment )
<ogra> rsalveti, i belive bug 626795 should be fix released
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 626795 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "Missing LED support for Pandaboard" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/626795
<ogra> not sure why it didnt get autoclosed
<NCommander> can I move onto kernel status?
<rsalveti> ogra: sure, me neither
<ogra> oh, because its filed against linux-ti-omap4 not against linaros u-boot :)
<ogra> NCommander, go for it
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<ogra> mpoirier, got your panda working ?
<mpoirier> yes,
<mpoirier> got the board going yesterday.
<mpoirier> got sound
<ogra> how ?
<ogra> just out of the box ?
<mpoirier> running the scipts in the bug.
<ogra> or with patches/changes
<mpoirier> that is step 1.
<ogra> ah, k
<rsalveti> ogra: but we had a bug for kernel and another for u-boot :-)
<ogra> you cant revert the alsa changes
<rsalveti> anyway
<ogra> so you need to re-flash to get it virgin again
<mpoirier> next is to put the default setting in the kernel.
<ogra> (just as a note)
<mpoirier> ogra: I'll touch base with you after on that "note".
<ogra> k :)
<mpoirier> got GSX working with rsalveti's help.
<mpoirier> work postponed to N.
<ogra> with the default packages and no manual work ?
<ogra> (from the PPA)
<rsalveti> ogra: what should be postponed is to get the kernel modules at our kernel
<ogra> if that works we can pull them into the archive
<ogra> rsalveti, right
<ogra> but the DKMS version should be fine
<rsalveti> ogra: sure
<ogra> if that works OOTB and we hear back from all testers we can request inclusion
 * ogra only waits for alf
<NCommander> alf?
<mpoirier> lag is in taipei - I didn't have time to get the omap4 status from him.
<rsalveti> ogra: yep, alf seems to be testing right now
<mpoirier> ..
<ogra> right
<ogra> mpoirier, no worries :)
<NCommander> argh, brain fart ;-/
<ogra> ansthign from cooloney ?
<ogra> NCommander, we have a direct line to melmarc now
<ogra> :P
<ogra> just use the red phone for requests :P
<NCommander> neat
<NCommander> can I move on?
<ogra> mpoirier, anything from cooloney wrt any changes in TI land upstream ?
<mpoirier> nop - not that I'm aware of.
<ogra> and i also think we should have the SRU request for the final kernel ready in advance
<ogra> (for omap4)
<ogra> given that we might get it on hard freeze day or some such
<ogra> please forward that as a discussion point in your teasm
<ogra> *team
<mpoirier> yes.
 * ogra will care for the bootloader side
<ogra> its not clear yet when the final silicon will be there
<ogra> not sure davidm wants to elaborate on that here and now
<davidm> current date is a little less then 2 weeks away
<ogra> (i suppose we can release with a buggy kernel as long as it boots and push fixes into post release SRUs)
<ogra> but it needs to boot and be able to connect to the net for updating
<ogra> NCommander, move if nobody else has any kernel related bits
<mpoirier> ogra: do you see a problem with connecting after installation ?
<ogra> mpoirier, no, but i havent seen the future HW yet :)
<mpoirier> ah.
<rsalveti> I fixed yesterday an issue with IGEPv2
<mpoirier> ok.
<ogra> if there are changes that break USB or some such ...
<rsalveti> should now have a working display, but still waiting someone who has the board to test it, before pushing to the kernel team
<ogra> i think i saw it being discussed somewhere
 * ogra look sat the kernel ML
<ogra> hmm, no, not there
<ogra> anyway
<ogra> NCommander, ?
<ogra> NCommander, what about the new audio bugs i saw for dove today ?
<ogra> are they anyhow kernel related ?
<ogra> (or probably GrueMaster knows since he filed ...)
<rsalveti> it seems now we have audio issues with every board we work on :-)
<GrueMaster> I was just getting ready to report on it as part of my report (next topic).
<persia> The dove audio bugs were reported as *regressions*
<ogra> GrueMaster, well, if there are no kernel bits, lets wait for NCommander to move on :)
<ogra> if he didnt fall asleep
<GrueMaster> yes, they were.  I retested Beta and basic audio works.  It fails on 20100920 image.
<ogra> NCommander, WAKEUP !!!
 * ogra lokks for a trumpet
<ogra> honk honk
 * davidm wonders if NCommander disconnected from his AP again
 * davidm is checking
<ogra> bad, he owns the bot ... :)
<NCommander> back
<NCommander> internet hates me
<ogra> hate it back :)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<GrueMaster> sigh
<GrueMaster> fail
<davidm> NCommander, did you miss info on Marvell regressions? (Audio)
<ogra> GrueMaster, yeah, who needs QA :P
<ogra> NCommander, ^^^
<NCommander> davidm: oh,I saw that, was working with GrueMaster on it last night somewhat
<ogra> NCommander, can you fix the topic ?
<ogra> you skipped tobin
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<ogra> :)
<GrueMaster> Found some regressions in alsa on dove from beta to recent, going to retest on Beagle as well to see if there are regressions there.  Bug 644028 & bug 644037
<GrueMaster> BeagleXM (prerelease version) is now unstable for me as of Friday morning.
<GrueMaster> Getting overwhelmed with outside-of-image test requests.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 644028 in linux-meta-mvl-dove (Ubuntu) "Audio regression on Marvell Dove images" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/644028
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 644037 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "defaults need adjustment for Dove A0 for audible audio" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/644037
<ogra> oh, 644037 looks liek fun
<ogra> *like
<GrueMaster> The regressions in the kernel are that basic audio worked in Beta and now does not in 20100920.
<ogra> i wonder if its introduced by persia's changes to pulse
<ogra> since default.pa uses omap4 settings on armel
<ogra> i wonder if tehy also work on dove
<GrueMaster> The regression in Pulse Audio is that it used to have controls available to switch from speakers to headphone, now it doesn't.
<persia> Wouldn't, as ALSA is broken.
<ogra> oh, on dove as well ?
<ogra> tahts bad
<persia> Anyway, the changes I made for armel aren't board-specific: reducing the number of in-flight samples and using a fixed-point codec will be better for all current-generation ARM chips.
<ogra> ok
<ogra> thats what i wanted to hear :)
<ogra> GrueMaster, anything for omap4 ?
 * persia wouldn't push hardware-specific patches to packages into the archive, and would probably do something odd to them even if pushing to a PPA so that they didn't work in the archive
<GrueMaster> I have not been successful geting audio working on omap4 yet, but have not applied any external scripts yet either.
<ogra> well, did you test the images lately ?
 * ogra wasnt referring to audio
<GrueMaster> I got as far as booting omap4 on 20100920 image, and then focused on audio issues on dove & beagle.
<GrueMaster> I was also spending some time trying to get my beagleXM working again.
<ogra> hmm, k
<ogra> please test the new favorites stuff on omap4 ...
<ogra> specifically the PPA icon
<GrueMaster> Since Thursday, I have received 4 out-of-image test requests that take a lot of time.
<ogra> also if anyone still sees something in the launcher we can assign to devilshorns, please dont hesitate :)
<NCommander> can we move on?
<GrueMaster> That brings up some other issues I discovered last week.
<ogra> i'm pondering if we shouldnt drop the film reel completely
<ogra> we have the apps in the panel anyway
<ogra> seems pointless to have an emblem on the icon
<GrueMaster> Working with devilhorns, I discovered a disparity between une and une-efl in the font handling.
<ogra> and doesnt looks very good non-animated imho
<ogra> GrueMaster, do we have a separate bug for that ?
<ogra> oh, and could you teach devilshorns a bit about bug filing ?
<GrueMaster> Spent several hours tracking that one, and yes there is a bug filed. (don't have the # offhand).
<ogra> he tends to attach all his fixes to the same bug
<ogra> would be better to have them separate
<GrueMaster> I'll try.
<ogra> since not all fixes apply to freeze exceptions
<ogra> thanks :)
<NCommander> can I move on?
<GrueMaster> Go
<ogra> ++
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<ogra> nothing in main \o/
<ogra> well, nothing *we* have to touch
<NCommander> :-)
<ogra> openoffice requires testing
<NCommander> :-(
<ogra> please, everybody who has some spare time, install it and test
<ogra> its in the archive now
<ogra> but untested yet
 * persia would appreciate someone testing krita also
<ogra> also doko created a ton of bugs for universe packages
<ogra> for ftbfs'es
<ogra> i assigned some to dyfet but there are likely more
<ogra> so if you feel like investing some time, look over them please
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> failed tonight
<ogra> thanks to antiomony being upgraded to lucid
<ogra> but its fixed now
<ogra> the current omap images create swap again
<ogra> which takes about 3 minutes
<ogra> i'm still pondering how to do it during image creation without having to fiddle with the partitioning
<ogra> jasper should also spawn a getty on serial consoles if you have set console= on cmdline
<rsalveti> cool
<ogra> please someone test that (requires editing boot.scr twice)
<rsalveti> saw that
<ogra> it will only put it in plce if boot.scr on firstboot has it
<ogra> and for second boot you need to edit /boot/boot.script and re-run flash-kernel to add it again
<ogra> still looking into ho i fix that issue best
<GrueMaster> ogra: I have a few ideas.  Will discuss after meeting.
<ogra> beyond that the favorites have an apturl icon for TI PPAs now
<ogra> that exposes some bugs in software-center :)
<ogra> which got fixed today by the tireless mvo
<ogra> davidm, i will need an icon from TI for that
<ogra> davidm, as well as a list of binary packages and eula text
<ogra> currently it just uses the unknown app icon
<ogra> beyond that, the omap4 images are ready for release i think
<rsalveti> ogra: regarding eula, is it needed to access the ppa or to install the packages?
<rsalveti> or both
<ogra> oh, and i also plan to work on fixing the "all armel headers installed" issue before release
<rsalveti> cool
<ogra> rsalveti, no, its just a descriptive text shown when you enable the PPA
<ogra> its nbot really an "accept/cancel" thing
<rsalveti> ogra: hm, ok, so it should be a huge text with all licenses for all packages
<ogra> sw-center doesnt have that yet
<ogra> for packages that require a real eula it still should happen in preinst
<ogra> like java does
<rsalveti> ogra: oh, got it
<rsalveti> makes sense
<ogra> it would be great if we could just do everything in the sw-center eula
<ogra> but i doubt that can happen in time for maverick
<ogra> since lawyers will be involved in any change here
<rsalveti> probably only for N
<ogra> or N+1
<ogra> depends on the lawyers :)
<rsalveti> could be, if we involve lawyers
<rsalveti> yep :-)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> NCommander, dove status ?
<ogra> any release blockers there ?
<rsalveti> NCommander: ?
<ogra> fell asleep again :)
<GrueMaster> For the most part, dove image is looking good.
<GrueMaster> Missing icon for installer from live image.  And of course audio issues.
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> what Tobin said
<GrueMaster> :P
<ogra> bootloader issues are fixed now ?
<GrueMaster> That is on Avenger only, which is not supported.
<ogra> i thought ubiquity messed it up in the past on dove too
<ogra> trying to install grub or something
 * ogra was rather referring to that one
<GrueMaster> Oh, yea that was fixed wit hthe recent ubiquity.
<ogra> not to avenger
<ogra> awesome !
<ogra> NCommander, move !
<GrueMaster> Yesterday's image installed w/o error (other than no icon to launch it)
<ogra> pfft icons are overrated
<ogra> they are for your mom !
<ogra> *g*
<NCommander> [topic] ABO
<MootBot> New Topic:  ABO
<ogra> GrueMaster, persia ... your reports are still missing
<GrueMaster> Well, I feel like my mom when I am low on caffeine.
<ogra> heh
<GrueMaster> Yea, will get to it later today.
 * persia doesn't participate in that sort of thing
<GrueMaster> Meeting post was at 12:33am my time.
 * ogra slaps persia 
<ogra> we should make sure to have them on the wiki before the meeting next week
<GrueMaster> (needs to be 24 hours earlier).
<ogra> (indeed that requires that NCommander sends out the announcement early enough and that the wikipage exists)
<GrueMaster> I have requested time and again that the meeting notice with wiki attachment goes out 24 hours before the meeting.
<ogra> NCommander, can we make it 24h earlier so tobin doesnt suffer?
<persia> NCommander, Go make a wiki page now :p
<ogra> ++
<ogra> yeah, creating it right after the meeting would surely be best
 * NCommander coughs
<davidm> NCommander, at the conclusion of this meeting you need to wrap the page and make the next one please
<NCommander> k
<NCommander> can I close it?
<NCommander> er, the meeting?
<persia> Please.
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:00.
 * ogra applauds 
<ogra> if my clock isnt wrong that was on the point :)
<rsalveti> yup :-)
<kees> \o
<pitti> o/
<pitti> mdz, cjwatson?
<pitti> Keybuk?
<Keybuk> yup am here
<Keybuk> hmm, xchat isn't notifying me again *sigh*
 * pitti SMSed mdz and cjwatson
<pitti> â© communication breakdown âª
<mpoirier> rsalveti: in the meeting you talked about "a bug for the kernel and another for u-boot", it this related to sound ?
<rsalveti> mpoirier: #ubuntu-arm please
<mpoirier> ya - wrong window.
<cjwatson> here
<pitti> hello Colin
<pitti> ok, 4 people, let's start then
<pitti> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:07. The chair is pitti.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pitti> [TOPIC] Action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
<pitti> pitti to follow up with kees on-list (re: Chromium security updates)
<pitti> there was some further discussion, so from the scope of this action item this was done
<pitti> it's not done in the "find a solution" yet
<kees> can we discuss it further today?
<pitti> I added it to the agenda, yes
<kees> as in, at this meeting at the end of the agenda?
<kees> okay, cool
<pitti> mdz to implement brainstorm reviews as proposed
<pitti> he sent a proposal to the list, which from my POV reflects what we discussed yesterday
<pitti> so I think we should add that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda with the next target date
<pitti> which should be about two weeks after UDS
<pitti> any objections to that?
<Keybuk> none
<kees> sounds good
<pitti> then we can keep it on the agenda and pick it up when it's due
<pitti> I'll add it as part of the meeting post-processing
<pitti> mdz to respond to jono re: application review board
<pitti> this happened AFAICS
<pitti> [ACTION] pitti to add brainstorm review to TB agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to add brainstorm review to TB agenda
<pitti> [TOPIC] Micro-release exception for bzr
<MootBot> New Topic:  Micro-release exception for bzr
<pitti> Martin Pool sent a request for this, and a description how these updates usually look like
<pitti> I already replied on list, any further comments to that?
 * pitti looks at cjwatson with his SRU hat
<cjwatson> I was fine with the summary on-list, though as I noted I would prefer the test suite to be turned on
<cjwatson> (if possible; maybe some tests need to be xfailed or similar, but it's better than nothing)
<pitti> I think that's reasonable
<kees> I'm good with it, but would also like to see the tests in the build.
<pitti> I think we shuold do the tests on the installed package as part of the verification
<pitti> to avoid packaging errors, etc.
<pitti> (read: "in addition", not "instead")
<kees> documenting the test procedure in qa-regression-testing tree then would be how to do that?
<cjwatson> pitti: agreed
<pitti> kees: that sounds good; although it shuold by and large just be "$ bzr selftest"?
<cjwatson> --no-plugins
<kees> pitti: obvious to someone who knows it, but not to someone new :)
<cjwatson> well, probably
<pitti> kees: yes, I didn't want to say "we shouldn't do it", just "it should be easy once we know how"
<kees> yup, totally
<pitti> kees: since you know this well, could you add that call, once mbp explains us what to call exactly?
<pitti> [ACTION] pitti to ask mbp about self test instructions on installed system
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to ask mbp about self test instructions on installed system
<pitti> [ACTION] kees to add bzr self test to qa-regression-testing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kees to add bzr self test to qa-regression-testing
<pitti> (please complain if not)
<pitti> [VOTE] bzr microrelease SRU exception once build/runtime tests get enabled
<MootBot> Please vote on:  bzr microrelease SRU exception once build/runtime tests get enabled.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<kees> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<kees> pitti: so it's not literally "selftest" then?
<pitti> Keybuk: ?
<pitti> kees: something like it, though
<pitti> $ bzr selftest
<pitti> bzr: ERROR: No module named testtools
<kees> ah, python-testtools
<pitti> kees: like, that and an additional dependency, and perhaps some extra options for plugins
<pitti> kees: I'll ask mbp on the thread before
 * kees nods
<pitti> hm, seems we might have lost Keybuk
<Keybuk> sorry
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pitti> Keybuk: thanks
<pitti> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<pitti> [TOPIC] Chromium security updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chromium security updates
<pitti> this got some more replies on the thread, but it currently seems to be stuck on a dead end
<kees> so, I think what we should do is give a direction
<kees> MRE seems okay for them
<pitti> it seems the only real option that we have is to throw out these updates pretty much blindly and hope for the best?
<kees> but, probably changes in debian/ should be minimized for stable releases.
<kees> right
<pitti> yes, from the results it seems that it's MRE or not having the package at all
<kees> and we need resolution on what to do when builddeps keep getting added. presently, it seems that just adding them to the orig is the way to go, since everything else in bundled anyway
<pitti> but personally I still find this highly unsatisfying for something that's aspiring to get into main and default installs
<kees> it's pretty horrible, but it's the same state firefox is in. :(
<pitti> kees: firefox has rather predictable and fewer releases, and we have some time to test prereleases
<kees> right, but they're still bundling stuff, etc
<pitti> kees: I think for build deps like gyp it was okay to update the package in the archive
<pitti> but if they need a commonly used library which we don't want to update, then bundling it is, sure
<pitti> was there ever another case of a new build dep except gyp?
<jdstrand> libvpx
<jdstrand> (introduced as a new package in lucid)
<kees> (bzr already doesn't pass its own selftest fully...)
<pitti> ah, which would also affect gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad
<jdstrand> also chromium-codecs-ffmpeg needed an update
<jdstrand> pitti: in maverick, yes for sure, and iirc ffmpeg
<pitti> jdstrand: right, but I'd consider -codecs and -l10n as part of chromium, somehow
<jdstrand> pitti: re chromium-codecs-ffmpeg> at least from the package name, yes :)
<pitti> jdstrand: so for those it's probably a case-by-case decision, whether it's appropriate to update it for gstreamer, too?
<pitti> jdstrand: it's the chromium specific fork, anyway
<pitti> so, does anyone still see something to discuss for chromium updates, under the assumption that it stays in universe for now?
<jdstrand> I just worry about giving a blanket "it's ok to update system libraries as needed for chromium" when other packages depend on them. testing just explodes on that sort of thing
<pitti> jdstrand: no, we shouldn't; but it might be better in some cases
<jdstrand> (so I am in favor of bundling when the system one can no longer be used or updated appropriately)
<jdstrand> pitti: yes, agreed. have to look at it case by case
<jdstrand> ie, it is possibly an option to update the system lib
<pitti> [TOPIC] Administrativa
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrativa
<pitti> I scanned the ML for topics
<pitti> no new community bugs
<pitti> I keep forgetting, what's the order for chairs? IRC nick?
<pitti> i. e. sabdfl?
<Keybuk> yus
<kees> it's been nick, yes
<pitti> ok
<pitti> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<pitti> anything else on your mind?
<pitti> 5 secs
<cjwatson> not I
<pitti> ok, thanks everyone then!
<pitti> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:33.
<pitti> will send out notes etc. after my next meeting
 * mathiaz waves
 * kirkland is here for a moment, boarding a plane during the course of this meeting, though ....
<jiboumans> o/
<hallyn> \0
<ttx> o/
<SpamapS> o/
<zul> gday
<JamesPage> o/
 * mathiaz waits a bit for people to show up
<ScottK> \o
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<zul> mathiaz: how cold is it montreal today?
<mathiaz> zul: cold - montreal? this is non-sense!
<mathiaz> allright - let's the ball rolling
<zul> mathiaz: heh are you still wearing shorts outside?
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:03. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> today's amazing refreshing exciting mind-blowing agenda:
<mathiaz> ttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<smoser> o/
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<mathiaz> jib to check with kim0 if he can attend meetings regularly ro not
<jiboumans> mathiaz: done - he's here today and will be mostly going forward
<jiboumans> some other commitments stood in his way last few weeks
<RoAkSoAx> o/
 * mathiaz waves at kim0
<mathiaz> #
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx to email ubuntu server mailing list with update of cluster stack progress
<mathiaz> I think I saw the email
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: thanks for following up on that!
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz: i emailed yesterdayy :)
<mathiaz> that's all for last meeting minutes
<mathiaz> anything else to add wrt to last meeting?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development (jib)
<mathiaz> # Daily triage work items
<jiboumans> so far so good still; as mentioned last week very little feature development left
<jiboumans> only things not affecting freezes
<jiboumans> one thing to note though, our burndown charts don't look very healthy, and that's mostly due to people not ticking off their daily triage items
<jiboumans> so on your triage day, when you're done, please tick them off
<jiboumans> request for everyone to take a look at the tracker and mark those as done that they'd forgotten
<jiboumans> other than that, no red flags at the moment... calm before the storm :)
<mathiaz> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-dailytriage
<jiboumans> ttx, floor's yours
<mathiaz> ^^ is the link to the BP to tick off
<jiboumans> thanks mathiaz
<ScottK> New clamav release today.  Working with Debian to get it packaged and tested and in before RC.  The more significant of the two security issues it fixes is already patched in Maverick.
<ttx> RC bugs status looks reasonably good
<mathiaz> # Status for identified RC bugs (ttx)
<ttx> ScottK: ack
<ttx> We don't have any milestoned bug left, 3 high/critical maverick bugs
<ttx> and 8 Maverick-targeted bugs
<ttx> If you know of any bug we really shouldn't be releasing with, please let me know
<mathiaz> ttx: where can I find the list of these bugs?
<ttx> as it sounds suspeciously calm right now
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<ttx> or a more dynamic list by searching for tag server-mrs
<ttx> since we can't make LP return distroseries bugs where ubuntu-server is supervisor
<mathiaz> ttx: it may worth linking the server-mrs tag search from the MaverickReleaseStatus wiki page
<ttx> mathiaz: ack
<mathiaz> ttx: so that I can just click on it to have a real time view of the world...
<ttx> mathiaz: do you know if searching by package set is/will be an option
<mathiaz> ttx: I don't know
<ttx> mathiaz: well, "real time"... not really
<ttx> since when I tag I update the page as well :)
<mathiaz> ttx: well - the tag search is more accurate that the wiki page
<ttx> but once it's in the list, the status is more accurate :)
 * mathiaz nods
<ttx> I'm done ;)
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ttx to add link to server-mrs tag search from the releasestatus wiki page
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to add link to server-mrs tag search from the releasestatus wiki page
<mathiaz> # RC bugs suggestions ?
<ttx> That's what I just covered
<mathiaz> if I find one in the coming hours/days - what should I do?
<ttx> Hit me with anything YOU think should be on that list
<ttx> mathiaz: nominate against maverick, ping me so that I add it to our radar
<SpamapS> I have a quick question regarding universe..
<SpamapS> it seems that drizzle is FTBFS...
<SpamapS> and the release we have is really, really old
<ttx> mathiaz: in doubt, ping me first
<mathiaz> ttx: ok - you'll be online 24h?
<ttx> mathiaz: absolutely. I received the box of pills you sent me
<SpamapS> seeing that drizzle is still alpha-quality.. how hard would it be for monty (the debian maintainer) to upload a new version to be included in maverick at this late stage?
<mathiaz> ttx: :)
<mathiaz> ttx: I meant IRC connected... ;)
<ScottK> SpamapS: Not very since it's demonstrably broken as is.
<mathiaz> SpamapS: if it's totally broken - things can't get worse
<SpamapS> agreed. :)
<mathiaz> SpamapS: so anything is an improvment
<SpamapS> its failing its own unit tests
<ttx> mathiaz: in the next days, yes
<ScottK> SpamapS: Also he hasn't bothered to upload to Debian either.
<ttx> mathiaz: I'll delegate if I'm not.
<SpamapS> ScottK: agreed, so if he uploaded to experimental, could we do a sync?
<ttx> SpamapS: if it builds ship it ?
<ScottK> SpamapS: It should go to Sid.  It's not in Squeeze, so there's no reason to go to experimental.
<ttx> that rings a bell.
<SpamapS> ScottK: ahh Ok
<ScottK> SpamapS: If he uploads to Debian and it builds on Ubuntu I'll approve the FFe.
<ScottK> (that deal is good this week only)
<mathiaz> SpamapS: so you'll look into the state of drizzle?
<SpamapS> mtaylor: welcome
<SpamapS> ScottK: say that again please :)
<mtaylor> hi guys
<ttx> SpamapS: hit me with a bug number for that.
<mathiaz> SpamapS: could this be taken somewhere else?
<mathiaz> SpamapS: like defer the discussion to #ubuntu-devel?
<ScottK> SpamapS: If drizzle gets updated in Sid, I'll approve a sync this week as long as you can build it on Ubuntu too.
<SpamapS> yes I just wanted to assure Monty that if he uploads it will get done. :)
<ttx> mtaylor: o/
<SpamapS> mtaylor: ^^ thats all I wanted you to see. :)
<mtaylor> done. thanks!
<ScottK> If it needs further discussion --> #ubuntu-server
<SpamapS> ttx: actually it doesn't seem that there is a bug
<mathiaz> [ACTION] SpamapS to look at the state of drizzle in maverick - if it build this week ScottK to accept FFe
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SpamapS to look at the state of drizzle in maverick - if it build this week ScottK to accept FFe
<ScottK> ttx: Typically FTBFS bugs only get filed for Main.
<ttx> SpamapS: it could use one. I like traceability.
<SpamapS> filing now as part of that action item.
<mathiaz> anything else related to RC bugs?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] # Natty development (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  # Natty development (jib)
<jiboumans> With feature development unwinding and only a handful of bugs targeted to release, this is a great time to put your thinking caps on for Natty if you have some spare time. Like last round, we'll use the IdeaPool wiki page to gather thoughts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/NattyIdeaPool. There's no rush at this point, but I'd like to stress we'd love to get your input
<mathiaz> jiboumans: should BP already be filed?
<mathiaz> jiboumans: or an item on the NattyIdeaPool wiki page is enough for now?
<jiboumans> mathiaz: they're welcome to be filed *if* you're willing to lead a session at UDS for it
<jiboumans> like last time, we have both sections: ideas & uds sessions
<jiboumans> blueprints only desired for the latter right now
<mathiaz> how about sending an email to ubuntu-server@ and/or a blog post for call of ideas?
<jiboumans> that's a fantastic idea
<jiboumans> thanks for volunteering!
<jiboumans> ;)
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<jiboumans> on a serious note: it's on my todo, but if you beat me to it, i'd be thankful
<mathiaz> [ACTION] jiboumans to send an email to ubuntu-server@ and/or blog post for call for ideas
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jiboumans to send an email to ubuntu-server@ and/or blog post for call for ideas
<jiboumans> .... jiboumans vs meetings cair. 0 - 1
<jiboumans> *chair
 * mathiaz <-- big smile
<mathiaz> on related note
<jiboumans> alright, that's all from me about natty at this point
<mathiaz> it may be interesting to do something similar in each upstream community someone is connected to
<mathiaz> I may send a note to the puppet folks to get your input
<mathiaz> I may send a note to the puppet folks to get *their* input
<jiboumans> agreed
<mathiaz> if someone has strong connection with other communities a targeted call for ideas could be useful
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community
<mathiaz> any questions related to Natty development?
<kim0> do we have any guides on what kind of ideas are needed
<smoser> do you mean good ones? or great ones ?
<mathiaz> kim0: well - I'd say - any ideas
<kim0> what's ok and what's not basically
<mathiaz> kim0: well - we'll sort things out afterwards
<kim0> cool
<RoAkSoAx> are these ideas have to be cloud related only? :)
<zul> of course not
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: no, but they need to have the word "cloud" in them.
<mathiaz> kim0: the begining phase is when we put back everything on the table
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: kidding :)
<mathiaz> kim0: so anything is welcomed
<kim0> sounds good
<RoAkSoAx> ttx: :P I do have one for the cloud though :P
<jiboumans> kim0: a good thing to keep in mind is that we're targeting things that can be implemented in a cycle with these ideas
<Daviey> erk
<mathiaz> a good idea may gather some strong support and things can move forward
<RoAkSoAx> but dunno if i'd have the time to code it
<jiboumans> and things that you (or the suggester) can contribute to are much more likely to be accepted
 * SpamapS files idea for renaming upstart to cthulu so the narwhal can stop ctuhulu eating ye.
<mathiaz> the call for idea is mainly a brainstorm session
<mathiaz> so go for quantity
 * ScottK suggests SpamapS file one for moving to systemd.
<mathiaz> afterwards ideas will be sorted out
<kim0> systemd probably too volatile at now
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: how do you feel of launching VM's and powering them off baserd on the load :)
<RoAkSoAx> in the cloud of course
<mathiaz> all right let's move on
<mathiaz> and not discuss actual ideas here
<RoAkSoAx> sry for OT :)
<mathiaz> the page to capture them is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/NattyIdeaPool
<mathiaz> any other questions related to Natty develpment?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> #
<mathiaz> Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> no news, except I am still hammering on euca.
<mathiaz> hggdh: what's up in the QA team?
<Daviey> \o/
<zul> hggdh: heh what else is new?
<mathiaz> hggdh: noticed the new QA blog
 * hggdh hopes next cycle will leave time for other tasks
<mathiaz> hggdh: that's really great!
<hggdh> mathiaz: yeah, cool... kudos for ara
<mathiaz> hggdh: agreed - ara did a great job
<hggdh> apart from that, no news
<mathiaz> hggdh: anything else on the QA front?
<hggdh> no
<mathiaz> Anything to tell to the QA team?
<zul> keep up the good work
<ttx> no rest for the braves
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on
<mathiaz> ... to the kernel team
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<mathiaz> jjohansen: how is the  kernel team doing these days?
<jjohansen> the team in general or me
<ttx> both!
<kim0> :)
 * jjohansen is pulling out hair, the rest of the team is vacationing in taipei
 * kim0 hugs jjohansen 
<jjohansen> well thats not really true, some of the team is at the hardware summit in taipei
<jjohansen> kim0: thanks, its not been a good day
<mathiaz>     *
<mathiaz>       Bug 613083 - user-data is corrupted inside metadata service
<ubottu> Bug 613083 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/613083 is private
<mathiaz> status: ^^?
<jjohansen> it is not an Ubuntu bug, and Amazon is aware of it and working on the issue
<mathiaz> jjohansen: ok
<ttx> jjohansen: pulling out hair --> anythign server related ?
<mathiaz> jjohansen: any other bugs that should brought to the -server team attention?
<jjohansen> ttx: half of it
<ttx> that corruption bug is the only one I have on my list, so I was wondering if you had anything for us in yours :)
<jjohansen> mathiaz: there aren't any high priority ones that I am aware of
<mathiaz> jjohansen: great!
<smoser> well, the java bug would be nice.
<jjohansen> there the regular set of reported crashes etc.
<mathiaz> anything to bring to the kernel team attention?
<smoser> and there is one other crash bug
<jjohansen> ah, yes.  Sadly I haven't gotten to that yet
<mathiaz> smoser: bug numbers?
<smoser> bug 634487
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634487 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "t1.micro instance hangs when installing sun java" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634487
<ttx> smoser: that's a kernel issue ?
<smoser> yes.
 * ttx adds magic tag
<SpamapS> smoser: is it a host kernel or guest kernel issue?
<smoser> and bug 613273
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613273 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel panic on ec2 in system_call_fastpath" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613273
<smoser> SpamapS, there is no such thing as a host kernel issue ;)
<jjohansen> hahaha
<zul> riiiiight
<smoser> but seriously, the guests go awol in both those cases.
<ttx> ack
<jjohansen> yep, there are certainly guest kernel issues involved
<smoser> and in both cases in xen specific path
<ttx> smoser: regressions in Maverick ?
<jjohansen> ttx: yes
<smoser> well, the java hang is better on maverick than on lucid
<smoser> (both ill)
<jjohansen> oh right, I got that one backwards
<smoser> and the system_call_fastpath (which i think is actually the wrong function name) i think i've seen in both.
<ttx> ok, I think we loaded jjohansen's plate enough
<mathiaz> jjohansen: smoser: anything specific we can help to fix this?
<mathiaz> or it just needs more investigation?
<jjohansen> a good reproducing test case
<mathiaz> ttx: are you tracking both bugs above?
<smoser> 613273 is apparently only maverick.
<ttx> mathiaz: I am now
<mathiaz> ttx: great
<mathiaz> so I think we'll come back to these next week
<mathiaz> to review them
<ttx> mathiaz: yes, I don't let go easily.
<mathiaz> in the meantime both jjohansen and smoser are looking into it?
<jjohansen> mathiaz: not atm
<jjohansen> mathiaz: or lets say they are lower priority on the queue atm
<smoser> yeah, that one is hard to reproduce. i guess i'll poke with jjohansen on that.
<ttx> with the cloud image release policy it's slightly less annoying to release with those
<mathiaz> jjohansen: works for me
<smoser> on the t1.micro / java, we are actually getting some help from amazon.
<mathiaz> ok - anything else for the kernel team?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<jjohansen> mathiaz: as usual I know there is something else but I can't remember what it is
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<mathiaz> sommer: around?
<mathiaz> anything that should be brought up to the attention of the doc team?
<mathiaz> jjohansen: for the next meeting you might wanna put your ideas in the Meeting wiki page
<mathiaz> well - nothing for the documentation team
<mathiaz> let's move on
<jjohansen> mathiaz: yes, that has been the plan, then I got busy chasing other things
<jjohansen> I've got it
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<kim0> hey folks, sorry for not being able to attend a few past meeting. Had some obligations, however all is clear now .. Yaay
 * mathiaz pulls the break!
<kim0> I'll mention a couple of points, then we can discuss the 10.10 ec2 party thing
<kim0> The last couple of weeks I had been busy getting the cloud portal in shape. I am contacting IS to start deploying this week
<kim0> Other than that, on a more long term matter
<mathiaz> jjohansen: ok - let's get back to it after kim0 is done
<kim0> I had emailed the ubuntu-devel team asking for suggestions on growing the ubuntu cloud community
<kim0> oh sorry .. didn't notice the break thing
<kim0> should I stop ?
<kim0> mm ..
<mathiaz> kim0: nope - go ahead
<kim0> okie
<mathiaz> kim0: it's your turn
<kim0> Most of the feedback received was asking for technical guides or white-papers on "best practices" on how to write cloud apps, how to deploy services in the cloud, and how to build your own private cloud (storage
<mathiaz> kim0: we'll get back to jjohansen later
<kim0> concerns, network concerns and best practices ...etc)
<kim0> For that, and since we're planning work for 11.04 right now, I'm adding tasks on myself, to start and grow technical content around these areas
<kim0> We wont be writing book on these "vast" areas of new knowledge, rather starting something that the community can contribute to and grow
<kim0> Any suggestions on what content needs to go there exactly are most welcome right now, please email the hell out of me :)
<kim0> that's all atm ..
<mathiaz> kim0: great - any address for the preview of the cloud portal?
<kim0> I only have my development server
<ScottK> kim0: I'd recommend chatting with sommer about that since he's been leading our server documentation effort for some time.
<kim0> once I had a public copy I'll ping
<mathiaz> kim0: ok
<kim0> ScottK: awesome .. noted
<mathiaz> kim0: that seems like a great plan
<kim0> again .. suggestions and details are welcome
<kim0> once I've defined a solid plan I'll discuss
<kim0> if that's all .. can we talk to the 10.10 ec2 party ?
<mathiaz> kim0: sure - what's the 10.10 ec2 party?
<kim0> how about for the release part of 10.10
<kim0> the server community is allowed ec2 instance access
<kim0> we can probably get funding for that
<Daviey> kim0: Shall we take that out of meeting?
<kim0> okie
<kim0> well that's all for me
<mathiaz> anything else to note to the community team?
<mathiaz> since we're running out of time I'll wrap up
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same place, same time?
<ttx> yes
<JamesPage> good with me!
<ttx> crazy europeans
 * SpamapS alerts the media
<kim0> hehe
<mathiaz> ok - so next week, same place, same time!
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<Daviey> "okay" with me
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:00.
<jjohansen> mathiaz: one more thing Bug #493156, it would be good if some people can try the test kernels, verify that they work and add that to the bug report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 493156 in linux (Ubuntu) "Please enable CONFIG_TASK_DELAY_ACCT" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/493156
<jjohansen> for Lucid of course
<mathiaz> jjohansen: is that the item you wanted to add?
<jjohansen> yes
<mathiaz> jjohansen: ok - I'll make sure their included in the meeting
<mathiaz> jjohansen: minutes
<popey> BONG!
<popey> Ubuntu LoCo Council meeting time!
<jfalco> woohooo
 * popey pings czajkowski itnet7 huats and paultag (who is missing)
<itnet7> \o/
<huats> Hello popey !
<huats> popey, don't forget leogg
<popey> oops
<huats> (who is missing too:)
<popey> hmm
<popey> so we're down to 3 of 6
<czajkowski> i'm here
<popey> 4 of 6
<czajkowski> so we're able to vote
<popey> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:01. The chair is popey.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<czajkowski> just waking to pub
<popey> hah
<popey> shall we start with the loco teams?
<huats> sure popey !
<czajkowski> ok
<popey> #topic Turkish LoCo Team reapproval
<popey> bah
<popey> i can never drive this thing
<czajkowski> :)
<popey> [TOPIC] Turkish LoCo Team reapproval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Turkish LoCo Team reapproval
<popey> oops
<popey> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<popey> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TurkishTeam/ReapprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TurkishTeam/ReapprovalApplication
<popey> anyone here from Turkish LoCo?
<bytan> Hi all
<bytan> I am :)
<popey> hey bytan
<huats> hello bytan
<bytan> hello popey huats
<popey> ok, lets take some time to look at the application, do any of the loco council have any questions?
<itnet7> Hey there bytan
<huats> bytan, can you please talk to us a little more on what you did since your approval ?
<czajkowski> the wiki application is very bare to be honest
<huats> because I must say it isn't very explaining it
<popey> http://sudo.ubuntu-tr.net/ is very smart
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://sudo.ubuntu-tr.net/ is very smart
<itnet7> Doesn't appear to be much activity since 2008, at least by looking at the Wiki's and Re-approval page
 * itnet7 goes to look at 
<itnet7> sudo.ubuntu-tr.net
<bytan> Yes, thats true, i aggre abt our wiki page. but in shortly, we have created E-zine, SUDO for our users, and a team for that E-zine. We created a team for Turkish Translation and you may see how hard they work on launchpad
<itnet7> bytan: are any of the ezine's published or translated in other languages?
<bytan> We have a team for FCM ezine to translate turkish
<czajkowski> is heartsmagic about?
<popey> you have an active wiki I see
<popey> anyone else here for turkey?
<bytan> Heartsmagic is working now. and I talked to him today, if he could, he would like to come us later
<bytan> but probablly he cant.
<popey> bytan: is there any reason it's just you here representing the team?
<bytan> i am one of the leaders too,
<bytan> http://forum.ubuntu-tr.net/index.php/topic,12295.0.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://forum.ubuntu-tr.net/index.php/topic,12295.0.html
<huats> bytan, I think the question was more, why are you alone, since you have quite a team...
<popey> wow
<popey> thats quite a team structure
<bytan> why only me? i think i am the only one who is available :)
<popey> heh, everyone busy translating huh? :D
<popey> are we ready to vote itnet7 czajkowski huats ?
<bytan> The last edition of SUDO has published yesterday, thats why they cant come here.
<czajkowski> aye
<huats> yep
<popey> [VOTE] Turkish LoCo Team Re-Approval
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Turkish LoCo Team Re-Approval.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<popey> only loco council vote please
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<czajkowski> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<huats> 0
<huats> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from huats. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<popey> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 1 against. 1 abstained. Total: 1
<popey> hmm, so whats that mean? :)
<bytan> i wonder? :)
<popey> thats yes surely, it's positive
<czajkowski> i'd like to see turkey come back next month with a bit more detail and preferably more people present or we can take it to email
<popey> <- mathematics fail
<czajkowski> or does it mean 2 and a pass....
<huats> bytan, I am clearly pleased by your team work.I am just a bit disapointed by the application that is not presenting your great work :(
<bytan> i understand that.
<popey> bytan: can you build up that wiki page with some more detail?
<popey> and then email the loco council when done and we can disucss over email?
<bytan> ReapprovalApplication wiki page?
<popey> yes
<popey> add detail about the things the loco does, activities?
<popey> is that okay?
<bytan> of course, we can do that and we inform you again
<itnet7> bytan: according to the re-approval wiki it seemed as though you were in pause since like 2008
<itnet7> and we know that's not the case
<popey> bytan: just update the wiki with what's been happening in the loco over the last year, and then email loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com and we'll take a look and let you know right away.
<popey> no need to attend another meeting
<bytan> i understand what exactly you want, and we will email again
<popey> magic!
<czajkowski> thanks
<popey> thanks!
<itnet7> Thanks bytan !
<popey> ok, lets move on to Peru
<bytan> thanks all
<popey> [TOPIC] Peru LoCo Approval Application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Peru LoCo Approval Application
<popey> Anyone here from Peru!?
<huats> popey, I have just pinged nxvl on another channel without answer yet
<popey> heh, ditto :)
<popey> ok, lets move on then
<popey> [TOPIC] Tamil Nadu LoCo Re-Approval Application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Tamil Nadu LoCo Re-Approval Application
<popey> Anyone from the Tamil Nadu team here?
<nxvl> here
<huats> ah nxvl finally !
<popey> aha
<nxvl> sorry, was picking my sister from school
<popey> nxvl: are you / your team ready?
<huats> popey, may be we can go again to Peru since noone shows up from Tamil Nadu
<nxvl> i'm just asking michael to join us
<popey> sure, if they're ready
<nxvl> he was the one in charge of putting the missing web page together
<nxvl> since he is in charge of the events
<popey> [TOPIC] Peru LoCo Approval Application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Peru LoCo Approval Application
<nxvl> which was the part missing last time
<nxvl> here he is
<nxvl> xander21c: your audience
<xander21c> Hi
<popey> hi
<popey> can you tell us a bit about what the Peru LoCo has been doing this year?
<xander21c> Well
<xander21c> we have participated on many events
<nxvl> pictures!
<xander21c> also work on improved colaboration between Ubuntu Peru and other Local communities
<nxvl> http://picasaweb.google.com/xander21c
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://picasaweb.google.com/xander21c
<nxvl> wait, that's outdated
<nxvl> but you have a couple of end of last year events
<nxvl> like this one: http://picasaweb.google.com/xander21c/FESOLI2009#
<popey> do the loco council have any questions?
<itnet7> xander21c: Has your team done team reports?
<huats> popey, where is the app link ?
<popey> oops
<popey> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeruvianTeam/ApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeruvianTeam/ApprovalApplication
<huats> :)
<huats> (I was just asking for mootbot)
<popey> good man
<huats> xander21c, is it normal that there is nothing under experiences ?
<xander21c> no
<huats> xander21c, the wiki page is quite outdated to me (since I know nxvl is a MOTU for almost 2 years)
<popey> Where does most of the team communication happen? The mailing list seems quite idle.
<nxvl> huats: 2 years an a month actually
<nxvl> but we forgot to update that exact part
<xander21c> actually we are working on the website and other services (list, wiki update, etc)
<nxvl> wait
<xander21c> a new website and stuff
<nxvl> that's the app aplication
<nxvl> we are on re-aproval
<nxvl> xander21c: isn't that in a different page?
<nxvl> oh no that's the page, they forgot to update that part :S
<nxvl> we also have a second MOTU
<nxvl> well, had
<nxvl> not Florida loco steal him from us
<nxvl> :P
<itnet7> We stole him
<nxvl> now*
<itnet7> :-)
<nxvl> itnet7: you evil!
<popey> how come the website is down?
<nxvl> is it down?
<nxvl> the wiki is up
<nxvl> http://www.ubuntu-pe.org/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu-pe.org/
<nxvl> it's up
<nxvl> works here at least
<xander21c> yes
<xander21c> was down yesteardy :)
<popey> Mantenimiento
<popey> Volveremos pronto!
<popey> is all I see
<nxvl> that's weird
<xander21c> refresh
<jfalco> working here
<etank> i see it too
<popey> ok now
<popey> how odd
<nxvl> viperhood have had a couple of issues with the page AFAIK, since canonical doesn't give him enough permissions to edit stuff, i'm assuming he is asking for to much
<nxvl> and we are moving to a new server soon
<nxvl> own controled server so he can play a bit more with it
<popey> sorry, i didnt hget an answer to my question earlier i think
<nxvl> but he is in classes right now, IIUC
<popey> 21:40:05 <@popey> Where does most of the team communication happen? The mailing list seems quite idle.
<nxvl> i didn't saw it
<nxvl> we have a channel on freenode
<nxvl> where people come an ask
<nxvl> in peru there are a lot of ML, and they have a really bad (forgot the word, but people think really bad about MLs)
<itnet7> nxvl: does the team do team minutes? Or any team reporting?
<nxvl> not that i'm aware of
<nxvl> i need to admit i'm to busy lately to be really involved
<xander21c> popey: usually gets more traffic after a release
<nxvl> i try to help with what i can, but it's not much
<nxvl> reputation, the work was reputation!
<itnet7> the word!
<itnet7> gotcha!
<nxvl> yeah, that
<itnet7> :-)
<nxvl> it's afternoon
<nxvl> my brain is tired at this time of the day
<nxvl> :P
<popey> ok, time to vote (LoCo Council members only)
<popey> [VOTE] Approval of Peru LoCo Team.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approval of Peru LoCo Team..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<xander21c> itnet7: actually I was working with Dante Diaz (vipehoot) in order to refresh the site, an planning ways to keep everything update
<huats> +0 since I'd like  as for the Turkish team a real application...
<MootBot> Abstention received from huats. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<popey> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from popey. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
<itnet7> +0 I would like to some team reporting, I know that the Peru team is very active
<MootBot> Abstention received from itnet7. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
<popey> I too would like to see team reports, and more evidence of activity over the last year.
<popey> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 1 against. 3 abstained. Total: -1
<popey> Sorry guys, not this time.
<popey> ok, last team
<itnet7> xander21c: it's hard to vote a +1 when you can't see any currrent events documented easily on the Re-Approval page
<popey> [TOPIC] Kentucky LoCo ReApproval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kentucky LoCo ReApproval
<xander21c> don't worry
 * etank is here from Kentucky
 * jkeyes0 is here from Kentucky as well.
 * jfalco too
<Garon> here from Kentucky as well
<etank> Hi all. As a team we have been working to communicat about the existance of Linux our local area about the existance of Linux. We have done this through having regular meetings that are open to the public. Our goal is to have beginner level information at each meeting so that we do not talk over anyones head. At the same time we try to have some more advanced topics so the members that have been
<etank> using Linux for a long time do not get bored. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KentuckyTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<itnet7> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KentuckyTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<etank> should have used the spell check in gedit for that :)
<itnet7> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KentuckyTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KentuckyTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<itnet7> SOrry
<popey> thanks :)
<popey> Would it be fair to say you're more a LUG than a LoCo?
<etank> i think so
 * volci is here from kentucky
<jfalco> Well kinda of, we've merged the LoCo into the lug to ease the admin duties
<jkeyes0> in the beginning, a majority of our users were using Ubuntu only, but as we've grown, a lot of members use other distros, and we don't want to exclude anyone.
<etank> we are focused on spreading Linux and the resources that the LoCo provides us helps that effort a great deal
<itnet7> Does your team do team reports? and archive minutes of LoCo IRC meetings?
<etank> we spoke to paultag (think that is his proper nick) about being a lug before applying again
<etank> we do archive our meeting logs
<etank> but we have not done team reports
<jfalco> http://bglug.net/meetings/bglug/2010/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bglug.net/meetings/bglug/2010/
<jfalco> http://bglug.net/irc/irc-meetings/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bglug.net/irc/irc-meetings/
<etank> we changed hosting providers not too long ago and have not updated some of the log information
<jfalco> http://bglug.net/wiki/Main_Page
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bglug.net/wiki/Main_Page
<etank> but the majority is available
 * jfalco looks for old logs
<etank> and some of our old meeting logs are on the ubuntu wiki (or should be)
<etank> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KentuckyTeam/Meetings
<etank> it was in January of 2009 that we merged into a LUG
<itnet7> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KentuckyTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KentuckyTeam/Meetings
<jfalco> MootBot must not like etank
<etank> we have been working hard to have regular IRL meetings on a monthly basis
<itnet7> it's the s in https I believe that causes you to require the square bracket LINK
<etank> we normally have 1 or 2 irc meetings each month as well
<itnet7> I would like to see all of you put a little more effort into Team Reports. It's important to share with the rest of the community what you are doing
<itnet7> It doesn't take that long, and I would be happy to help you set up an easy way to manage it thanks to nhandler !
<jfalco> Hoe bout our blog? http://bglug.net tons of info there
<etank> itnet7: do the reports get added to the wiki
<etank> or is it through email?
<itnet7> etank: it is part of the wiki
<etank> itnet7: so after regular meetings just update a Team Report?
<itnet7> I am in your channel I can show you afterwards how the Florida team is doing it
<etank> that is something that we can do
<etank> sounds good
<itnet7> it takes less than 5 minutes
<itnet7> a month
<jfalco> cool
<itnet7> but it's worth it's weight in Gold!
<czajkowski> team reports are very important!!!!
<popey> [ACTION] itnet7 to show Kentucky how AWESOME team reports are
<MootBot> ACTION received:  itnet7 to show Kentucky how AWESOME team reports are
<czajkowski> it makes myself and nhandler happy to see them
<itnet7> they are included in each month's UWN
<jfalco> lots of good discussion here too: http://groups.google.com/group/bglug
<itnet7> do you have any member's in the LoCo that are Ubuntu Members?
<etank> i am
<etank> and bkingx is as well
<itnet7> cool!
<Garon> I am
<itnet7> Nice!
<etank> Garon: really? :)
<jfalco> me too
<itnet7> gj jfalco
<popey> ok, I think we're set to vote..
<popey> [VOTE] Kentucky Fried LoCo Re-Approval
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Kentucky Fried LoCo Re-Approval.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<popey> only loco council vote please
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
 * popey pokes huats and czajkowski 
<popey> *tension*
<huats> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from huats. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<popey> \o/
<popey> nice one
<czajkowski> sorry lag
<popey> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<jfalco> w00t
<itnet7> \o/
<jkeyes0> thanks guys. :)
<etank> thank you all for your input
<volci> thanks!
<popey> keep up the great work!
<volci> we look forward to implementing it :)
<jfalco> ok got a plane to catch, thanks guys
<Garon> thanks guys
<volci> i have another appt to get to myself... bfn!
<itnet7> bye jfalco ttys
<popey> nhandler: you about?
<popey> thats a no
<czajkowski> short meeeting
<czajkowski> ish
<huats> indeed
<popey> ok, so thats all
<popey> [TOPIC] AOB?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
<czajkowski> rest of teams need to be done before end of october
<czajkowski> should we mail them all and process them via mail
<czajkowski> ones that were unapproved need following up
<popey> yup
<popey> czajkowski: you around for a conf call tomorrow evening?
<popey> and anyone else interested?
<itnet7> So no one had replied to my e-mail, what is our goal to finish the pending expirations or the original agreed upon list
<popey> ah, missed that
<itnet7> what time popey?
<popey> same time as this meeting?
<popey> 20:00 UTC?
<popey> just leave mumble/skype connected and work through this stuff
<itnet7> uhm, I don't know if I can pull that off, I was only able to make this full meeting as I'm home sick
<popey> awww
<itnet7> I can try to leave early
<popey> get off to bed dude!
<czajkowski> popey: i am indeed
<popey> well, if you're on irc/mail we can use that too to keep everyone up to speed
<czajkowski> ok
<popey> i just happen to have an empty evening tomorrrow
<huats> sorry I won't be able tomorrow
<itnet7> cool, I will try to get off early
<popey> ok, we'll keep the wiki updated and use the irc channel too
<popey> just so everyone knows whats happening
<popey> cool?
<czajkowski> sure
<popey> shall we arrange for next meeting in two weeks?
<czajkowski> yup
<popey> 5th October 20:00 UTC ?
<popey> week before release! eek!
<czajkowski> we;re not having to release anything
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> right i need to leave the pub now
<czajkowski> toodles
<popey> heh
<popey> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:21.
<jkeyes0> later guys. :)
<popey> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-22
<LaPulgaAtomica_> Buenas noches a todos
<drubin> '
<mvo> hello
<ev> hiya
<robbiew> o/
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<robbiew> barry: ?
<barry> gtimelog 0.4.0, repackaged, ppa, uploaded; python bugs: 9807 (pyconfig.h and Makefile), 9877 (sysconfig); udd work: wiki gardening, stakeholders meeting, bzr-debuntu plugin; general bug triaging; emacs 23.2 ffe testing; lpbug 434431 (cj icon); review bug 637955 merge proposal. (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 9807 in base-config (Ubuntu) "Doesn't put {warty,hoary}-updates in sources.list" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/9807
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 637955 in python-mode.el "py-previous-statement fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/637955
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> cjwatson: ?
<cjwatson> hi, sorry, give me a second - having network difficulties
<robbiew> cjwatson: np...we'll come back to you
<robbiew> doko?
<doko> * more handling of component mismatches, file MIR's, bug reports, ... people really should not be al
<doko> lowed to pre-promote, the kubuntu guys seem to be very eager about this
<doko> * llvm-2.8 updates
<doko> * OOo update, armel builds now, but not in the lucid backport
<doko> * some more ~20 armel package fix
<doko> * file bug report about armel build failures, get preprocessed source, forward to Linaro
<doko> * get the armel-cross-toolchain into maverick, helping hrw
<doko> * some python3 uploads
<doko> done
<robbiew> doko: it appears that the fix for the fullscreen presentation in OOo broke other things...did that get officially released, or was that just in a test ppa
<doko> -proposed
<Riddell> pre-promotion is done because the MIR team is lacking in members and we were told to do so
<robbiew> ah..okay
<cjwatson> ready when you are
<doko> --
<doko> Riddell: it doesn't help to subscribe the MIR team three months after filing the bug ...
<cjwatson> shall I go now?
<robbiew> cjwatson: yes...please
<cjwatson> done: fixed regression from ntfs-3g update; wubi fixups for grub, hopefully fixing upgrades; dmraid fixes in grub; almost done with /lib/init/rw work in sysvinit; pushed Windows interop fix in grub out for testing; working on some grub 1.99 release blockers, e.g. re-enabling grub-extras
<cjwatson> todo: consolekit VT activation fixes; finish various bits of WIP; bug catchup treadmill, but not much more on my list is critical so I have some space
<cjwatson> --
<cjwatson> (probably some more archive catchup as well to help doko out)
<robbiew> cjwatson: thnx
<robbiew> ev?
<ev> * fixing installer bugs - please let me know if it's failing for you in any serious way.
<ev> * Trying to get ubiquity reporting 0 errors in pyflakes, pychecker or pylint so that we can run it as a build step
<ev> * figuring out how to best set up and utilize this installer testing under Hudson stuff in anticipation for the hardware arriving tomorrow (can partimage/ntfsclone the copy of windows back over for resize tests, or cheat and mkfs.ntfs)
<ev> * working on setting up fakechroot to create an environment for testing individual ubiquity/d-i component interactions
<ev> (done)
<Riddell> there shouldn't be any outstanding ~ubuntu-archive bugs, I did the last ones this morning
<barry> ev: "Trying to get ubiquity reporting 0 errors in pyflakes, pychecker or
<barry>      pylint so that we can run it as a build step" -- good luck :)
<ev> barry: tell me about it
<doko> Riddell: maybe we should discuss this, but I think it's wrong to promote things when the security team has concerns which are not addressed
<doko> srtp again ...
<ev> pyflakes was mostly easy
<barry> ev: let me guess: pylint?
<robbiew> ev: thnx
<Riddell> doko: as I say I've been told to pre-promote them this cycle for lack of an active MIR team
<robbiew> mvo: ?
<ev> barry: yeah, verbose does not begin to describe pylint.  I think we have *some* hope with pychecker, but I worry about changing the code for the sake of making pychecker happy.
<mvo> misc bugfixing; misc i18n fixes; software-center: add screenshots-by-version support, fix where-is-it for kde/purchased apps, ui improvements to the buy-something, update-manager fixes, debug upgrade failure with xserver-xorg-input
<cjwatson> yeah, I noticed some cases in our previous work where changes to make pychecker happy actually actively broke stuff
<mvo> (done)
<barry> ev: we can take this off-line, but the trick is going to be basically suppressing tons of warnings either in the code or in your pylint.rc file.  so much fun :/
<ev> cjwatson: indeed, and I'm actively trying to avoid that :)
<ev> though wildcard imports was the source of much of the feedback, and those were easy enough to fix
<barry> ev: suppress, suppress, suppress ;)
<ev> barry: indeed :/
<ev> hahaha
<robbiew> psurbhi: around?
<psurbhi> yeah
<psurbhi> 1) worked on mdadm bugs (550131, 541058) related to map files and auto assembly. Have created a bzr branch with patches tested, kept at https://code.launchpad.net/~csurbhi/+junk/mdadm.fixes. Still looking at the path which gets "" assignment (earlier unknown). Also looking in neil browns git repo for fixes to other mdadm bugs. Some bugs do seem related to older mdadm versions.
<psurbhi> 2) looking at how lvm manages the array when the name changes due to auto assembly. Also investigating why autoassembly is failing for some users. Need to check if fixing the map file bugs helps anyone in this.
<psurbhi> 3) created a small mdadm document that says what features are currently supported and what to not expect to work correctly in 2.6.7.1, what patches are in queue (sponsorship requested). Shall upload this soon (after completion)
<psurbhi> done
<psurbhi> ..
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> [TOPIC] 10.10 Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.10 Bugs
<cjwatson> can somebody volunteer to look at psurbhi's mdadm fixes branch and see what of it should be sponsored for maverick?
<cjwatson> please
<psurbhi> also a patch attached to bug 617725
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 617725 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "post installation handling of raid devices on boot" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/617725
<psurbhi> could go in
 * robbiew can voluntell if needed
<robbiew> ;)
<psurbhi> cjwatson, robbiew, thanks a lot
<robbiew> mvo: can you help with this?
<mvo> I can, its not ideal, but I can give it a try
<mvo> software-center-buy-something is in the final iteration, today is the day when we want to lift the restriction
<mvo> so that purchase is open for anyone
<psurbhi> mvo, thanks! please let me know if you want something from me..
<mvo> sure
<robbiew> I don't think it needs to be done today, does it?
<robbiew> psurbhi: ^
 * robbiew must be talking to himself in here
<mvo> :)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/Good News?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/Good News?
<psurbhi> robbiew, no
<robbiew> psurbhi: thnx
<barry> i'm seeing lots of crashes in gnome-keyring-daemon.  it's an assertion that apport cannot report.  not seeing any obvious dups in the tracker but there are lots of open crashes there.  has anybody else seen this?  i may have to spend some time investigating. :/
<robbiew> hmm...I haven't seen that
<barry> i'm on amd64
<barry> anyway.  if not, i'll look into it
<robbiew> barry: I have an amd64 running 64bit, no problem with that...if I run into it, will let you know
 * mvo hasn't seen this either
<cjwatson> good news: wubi upgrades no longer make the system unbootable
<barry> robbiew, mvo k, thx
<robbiew> heh...\o/
<cjwatson> (haven't completed a full upgrade yet, but I upgraded just grub-common/grub-pc/lupin-support and it (a) still boots (b) uses a new grub to boot
<cjwatson> )
<robbiew> cjwatson: I suppose I should move on the releases.ubuntu.com/wubi hosting then
<barry> cjwatson: i have a win7 vm i can do wubi tests on if you need
<cjwatson> barry: I have win7 on real hardware
<cjwatson> more testing doesn't hurt of course
<barry> cjwatson: cool.  i have an msdn account (thx to psf) and can bring up vms for any windows os you need
<cjwatson> I'll remember that, may be useful
<barry> cjwatson: np.  i'll take a look at wubi
<robbiew> barry: cool...I think marjo and QA would be interested in that too
<barry> robbiew: +1 will let marjo know
 * psurbhi shall shoot an email to friends to try out wubi :) 
<doko> cjwatson: what needs to be done regarding archive cleanup before the release? I'm a bit scared about the demotions
<cjwatson> doko: I can work on the demotions; really just getting *-mismatches and NBS clean
<doko> ok, currently writing the two remaining MIRs
<doko> let me know how I can help with NBS
<robbiew> okey dokey
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:36.
<robbiew> thx all
<mvo> thanks!
<barry> robbiew: thanks!
<inkvizitor68sl> hi all
<inkvizitor68sl> whom i can contact to ask about pack of CDs for Ubuntu Install Fest ?
<akgraner> inkvizitor68sl, see PM
<highvoltage> Hi! I hav ea conference call with a client when the Edubuntu meeting starts, so I'll be at least a few minutes late, feel free to start without me :)
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> anyone around ?
<stgraber> ok, I guess we can wait for highvoltage then ;)
<stgraber> though an edubuntu meeting is relatively pointless if that's only mgariepy, highvoltage and I considering that we are all 2m away in real life ;)
<czajkowski> heh
<stgraber> hey czajkowski
<stgraber> how's it going ?
<czajkowski> not bad , keeping busy. yourself
<stgraber> good, quite busy recently. Looking forward to UDS to catch up on a few Ubuntu things I haven't quite had the time to work on recently (and seeing everyone again)
<czajkowski> yes looking forward to it alright
 * highvoltage morphs back into existence
<highvoltage> jcastro asked if we want to do an educationaly OW session
<highvoltage> I declined because I didn't find the last two sessions that I hosted particularly exiting
<highvoltage> anyone else want to do it perhaps or have any ideas?
<stgraber> well, it was great to have it on the schedule just to show that we are alive, though I tend to agree that they weren't particularly crowded
<vmlintu> maybe I should attend to find out what I could do..
<highvoltage> I started working on installation instructions for 10.10, it's viewable already, although not linked, if anyone wants to provide feedback it's over here: http://edubuntu.org/documentation/10.10/installation-guide
<highvoltage> vmlintu: :)
<highvoltage> vmlintu: I think what we need in Edubuntu is a wiki page with to-do list items that we maintain on a weekly bases
<highvoltage> *basis
<highvoltage> that way, if someone pops in and says "hey! I want to help but I don't know what to help with" then there's something we can point them to.
<ScottK> highvoltage: Feel free to copy https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo if it's useful.
<highvoltage> ScottK: that's very nice, thanks!
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<highvoltage> kubuntu always seems to be 2 steps ahead everyone else :)
<highvoltage> (brb)
 * mhall119 is here
<stgraber> hey mhall119
<highvoltage> hey mhall119
<vmlintu> sometimes following what is actually happening on the development front is quite hard from here, I have to say
<highvoltage> I don't think I have anything else for this week, nothing I can think of now at least :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: couldn't we use LP's bug tracker for that?
<mhall119> or blueprints
<mhall119> the to-do list I mean
<highvoltage> vmlintu: *nod* I'd like to hear more about that if you have any comments, or even suggestions on how we can improve
<stgraber> bugs might do the trick for some stuff, blueprint is usually too much paperwork (unless it's an actual feature that needs to be developed and for which that kind of tracking is useful)
<highvoltage> vmlintu: I'm going to blog about recent changes today, but it has all been said in previous irc meetings though
<mhall119> I'll be honest, I haven't been keeping up with edubuntu
<mhall119> I've had a hard time keeping up with anything, work, school, life...
<mhall119> I'm hoping UDS-N will help me focus on the next cycle
<highvoltage> mhall119: indeed, I'd suggest that things that need to be done have a bug assosiated to it, I think it would be nice though to have a wiki page that summarises them
<highvoltage> mhall119: I think it's normal for people to get out of sync regularly, ubuntu projects move *fast* and a lot of things happen
<highvoltage> I don't think there's anyone in the project that actually keeps up with *everything* that happens in more or less real time
<highvoltage> mhall119: I don't know if that's what you were talking about :)
<highvoltage> I know you've been somewhat busy
<highvoltage> it's nice that this time round, we'll pretty much all be at UDS, so we'll be able to get some of the stuff like the desktop-profiles stuff done for qimo at least :)
<stgraber> yep, and having the ltsp hackfest just after will also ensure having some time (including mgariepy's) for anything were we need some kind of teamwork ;)
<highvoltage> anything else? I think we can move back to #edubuntu :)
<stgraber> Nothing to add here for that meeting
<highvoltage> ok... /me > #edubuntu
<mhall119> highvoltage: I'm definitely looking forward to develing an actual roadmap for Qimo
<oso_> Buenas tardes
<james_w> go team win
<thumper> hi james_w
<james_w> hi thumper
<james_w> how are you?
<thumper> frustrated, you?
<james_w> a bit of that too, been hitting fragile code all day
 * thumper nods
<james_w> what's the source of you frustration?
<thumper> the private xmlrpc server
<thumper> timing out weirdly
<thumper> and I have no idea why
<james_w> hmm, fun
<barry> hi guys, ready to meet?
<james_w> private being for code imports?
<james_w> hi barry
<lifeless> being internal to the dc
<thumper> james_w: yes, and the smart server (and mailman)
<lifeless> code imports is one client
<thumper> I'd love to blame mailman, but not sure if I can
<thumper> hi barry
<thumper> we miss you
<thumper> come back
<barry> is rockstar and poolie here?
<barry> thumper: aw, thanks man!  i miss you guys too
<thumper> barry: rockstar isn't coming
<thumper> barry: I'm here for code
<barry> thumper: awesome
<barry> and there's poolie!
<poolie> hi barry!
<barry> hi!
<poolie> hi all
<thumper> hey
<barry> let's start, i can smell dinner cooking :)
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:02. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> welcome to the kickoff meeting for udd stakeholders.  all are welcome to join
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20100922
<poolie> good agenda
<james_w> indeed
<barry> poolie's making a mumble room for us
<poolie> backchannel in Ubuntu/Ubuntu Distributed Development on mumble
<poolie> technology! :)
<barry> techmology (sic)
<poolie> no additions to the agenda? next topic?
<thumper> as long as it is only a backchannel
<thumper> as NZ doesn't like mumble
<poolie> remember to use the mute button or push-to-talk
<barry> [TOPIC] * Planning for UDS-N
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Planning for UDS-N
<barry>    * How many sessions do we need? (e.g. an educational one for new users, a dev one for planning Natty work)
<barry>  
<lifeless> whats AOB?
<poolie> "any other business"
<barry> lifeless: any other business
<james_w> we got some good feedback last time from a session dedicated to that
<poolie> i think one planning session would be good,
<barry> so, we definitely want to do a developers session.  does it make sense to do an evangelizing/educational session too?
<poolie> maybe one feedback session
<barry> poolie: would the feedback session be the developers session?
<poolie> Charline from DX (or something like that?) will be at UDS and i'm trying to arrange for her to do some user studies of people actually doing UDD
<thumper> I think an educational session is needed
<poolie> or using bzr or launchpad
<james_w> If we have specific things to discuss in more detail then a UDS session is appropriate. I would think that general planning might be obsoleted by these meetings?
<poolie> that's probably not a session as such
<barry> poolie: +1 for charline doing that study
<james_w> yeah, and talking to developers outside sessions is always valuable
<barry> james_w: definitely
<poolie> mootbot: action: poolie to confirm charline to do user studies
<poolie> we could also line up some attendees to participate
<barry> [ACTION] poolie to confirm charline to do user studies
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to confirm charline to do user studies
<poolie> feedback sessions can be good, but not everybody feels comfortable speaking about their experience in a big room
<poolie> or they may simply not remember what they want to say
<poolie> can we do this better?
<poolie> is there another example of a feedback-type session that's worked really well?
<james_w> I think the need for work planning sessions may become obvious from our discussions today and over the next month
<poolie> mm
<poolie> if it's mostly work planning between the people already active in udd, it may not strictly need to be at a session
<barry> is it enough just to make sure folks know how to contact the mlist or stakeholders?  e.g. pvt feedback which we can turn into bugs, blueprints, etc?
<james_w> yeah
<poolie> otoh having it on the schedule allows interested people to turn up and propose changes to the agenda
<poolie> or just find out about it
<james_w> barry: I think that's a good start, and talking to people to encourage them and get feedback in an individual setting will help
<slangasek> poolie: include in the session a clearly identified "if you have other feedback, contact/click [...]"?  That way you grab any feedback from folks who think of what to say afterwards or are shy
<james_w> but I think feedback session can be useful to draw some people out of the woodwork
<barry> poolie: yep.  it provides an outlet for people who may be interested, or have dabbled, but don't focus on it that closely
<poolie> ok
<james_w> 1 year ago it was basically mathiaz listing problems he had, as most people in the room hadn't used it in anger, but 6 months ago there was broader participation
<slangasek> and then have that in the gobby doc on the projector, etc., and announced > 5min before end of session
<poolie> right, it does seem to be slowly building up
<barry> +1
<poolie> i don't know if we'll get around to it but it would be kind of cool to have a poster in the foyer
<poolie> as another way to prompty people to talk to us
<barry> that's a good idea.  i can talk to robbiew about that
<poolie> he's going to draw the poster? :-) or just about whether he's ok with it
<barry> whether it's okay, where to put it, etc
<thumper> I think having a gobby feedback file lowers the barrier for people to comment/complain
<poolie> thanks
<thumper> there will be people that will write but not talk
<poolie> right, we can try to cover all channels
<barry> [ACTION] talk to robbiew about getting a poster to prompt people to contact us re: udd feedback
<MootBot> ACTION received:  talk to robbiew about getting a poster to prompt people to contact us re: udd feedback
<barry> thumper: cool
<slangasek> thumper: frustratingly, sometimes these are people who are remote and have given us no other way to contact them for follow-up questions ;)
<poolie> so we want an educational session, a feedback session, a planning session
<poolie> anything else?
<barry> so, one feedback session for sure.  what about a separate educational session?  get the stakeholders to put together a short demonstration about how all the pieces fit together?
<james_w> I think that would be a good ide
<poolie> i think a short demo would be good
<poolie> that may actually draw other good feedback
<poolie> "i tried that but ....."
<james_w> for one thing it forces us to look at the on-ramp
<thumper> slangasek: I think all you can do to address that is to indicate clearly that to best get things changed we need contact details :)
<thumper> slangasek: although people will still leave that out
<slangasek> ack
<thumper> barry: +1 on an educational on-ramp type session
<barry> excellent. and a planning session if we think it's worth it by the time we get there
<james_w> +1
<slangasek> +1
<barry>    * Who will register and lead the sessions?
<barry>    * Which track should it be in?
<barry>  
<barry> i'll register the sessions
<poolie> [action] poolie to organize a foyer poster (assuming it will be
<poolie> (you get what i mean)
<barry> i do, but mootbot doesn't :)
<barry> [ACTION] poolie to organize a foyer poster (assuming it will be
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to organize a foyer poster (assuming it will be
<UndiFineD> what will be the IRC channels for UDS ?
<poolie> snort
<james_w> UndiFineD: #ubuntu-uds
<poolie> are there going to be as many tracks as LaHulpe? that was pretty enormous
<james_w> we are moving to something slightly different this time I think
<barry> UndiFineD: there will be session channels based on the track that the session is in.  it'll all be up on the wiki by that time
<slangasek> so one thing happening this time is that UDS is being organized by "theme" rather than "track"
<james_w> though I don't know if many people understand what that will be
<UndiFineD> ah that's good to know :)
<slangasek> (but using all the existing summit code :)
<poolie> istr someone talking of there already being a draft schedule somewhere?
<slangasek> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/
<slangasek> mind the falling tracebacks, though
<james_w> in a debug method no less
<poolie> heh
<barry> wfm :)
<poolie> so i guess they would be "Development Process?"
<slangasek> anyway, that shows the current 'themes' that have been proposed
<slangasek> poolie: I think so
<james_w> http://uds.ubuntu.com/tracks/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://uds.ubuntu.com/tracks/
<lifeless> win 38
<poolie> perhaps something under "Application Developers" about just general non-packaging use of bzr/lp, tutorial and/or feedback
<barry> yep, makes the most sense given what's there
<james_w> with a different list
<barry> yay
<james_w> poolie: I think that would be appreciated
<james_w> so +1 on development process if it is one of the tracks
<poolie> barry would you be so kind as to register that too while you're at it; me as lead
<james_w> otherwise some sort of "other, misc" I guess
<barry> james_w: agreed.  poolie you mean, register a session on general bzr/lp usage?
<slangasek> ah, so which set of themes is authoritative :/
<poolie> barry, yes, in the "application developers" stream
<barry> [ACTION] barry to register general bzr/lp session in "app devs" theme
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to register general bzr/lp session in "app devs" theme
<poolie> thanks
<barry> i guess these things will get settled in the next couple of weeks.  we can look again at our next meeting for track/registration specifics (if there's no obvious candidates)
<poolie> jameinel and myself will be there from bzr, plus about one person from each lp subteam
<barry> i think we know what udd sessions we want though, shall we move on?
<poolie> agree
<barry> poolie: awesome
<james_w> yes
<barry> [TOPIC]  * What are the top three things we need to add to make UDD more attractive to established devs?
<MootBot> New Topic:   * What are the top three things we need to add to make UDD more attractive to established devs?
<barry>  
<barry> in bazaar; in lp?
<james_w> that's Ubuntu developers?
<barry> james_w: yes i think so
<barry> although i have a dream that everyone is an ubuntu developer :)
<james_w> :-)
<james_w> I guess not everyone is established though
<lifeless> review process
<james_w> I wonder if there are any Ubuntu devs watching that might like to weigh in as well
<slangasek> git round-trip support?
<lifeless> just to say, I think having the review stuff - queues, notification, landing stories improved would probably help a lot
<lifeless> but thats wearing my motu hat.
<barry> lifeless: what specifically needs improving?
<slangasek> dunno, maybe that's not actually all that relevant to UDD / established Ubuntu devs, but it's something I hear a lot :/
<lifeless> barry: spend a day in REVU
<james_w> lifeless: could you join the dots there please?
<poolie> lifeless: #ubuntu-revu?
<lifeless> poolie: its a webapp
<lifeless> james_w: ok.
<james_w> slangasek: I believe it is on the way
<lifeless> so, motu gets a lot of new packages -many more than main -
<poolie> you mean, look at REVU for a smoother review workflow than is offered by lp?
<lifeless> and there is a complex review process needed to vet the package.
<lifeless> Its a (slight) superset of the stuff needed when an upstream release is made of an existing package.
<lifeless> and the LP review process for package branches doesn't handle either scenario (new, upstream-release) well.
<poolie> there's another related question which is: how do we best communicate what we are doing, and what we think needs doing next
<lifeless> poolie: yes, look at REVU, its /much/ more comprehensive - showing the diff is only a small fraction.
<poolie> this meeting, and the list, perhaps are enough
<poolie> thumper: ^^ :)
<slangasek> lifeless: would that encompass, say, having branch perms change with the state of the freeze and letting archive admins / release team / SRU team land changes by merging?
<barry> poolie: though we do want to reach out to folks not on the udd list
<lifeless> slangasek: its in the broad topic I'm talking about, yes.
<thumper> poolie: yes, we know we don't handle package review very well
<lifeless> basically we have a generic nice tool (Merge proposals) but we need to have a generic nice tool *for packages* too.
<barry> lifeless: in your happy world, would lp eventually replace revu?
<poolie> barry, that's true
<lifeless> and there are lots of angles; I haven't done a pareto analysis to say which bit should be done first.
<thumper> lifeless: there is work in progress to split the code-review from the proposal-to-merge
<lifeless> barry: hell yes.
<slangasek> lifeless: that's *my* killer feature for UDD... but I don't think it's possible to achieve unless we're already flipping the switch for building packages from branches
<thumper> with the intention to make the review part usable elsewhere
<lifeless> thumper: that work is unrelated to me.
<barry> lifeless: that's what i wanted to hear! :)
<thumper> like package reviews
<thumper> is that unrelated?
<ajmitch> lifeless: I'd be happy to kill off REVU, too :)
<lifeless> thumper: but they are still branch reviews
<lifeless> thumper: so I don't think splitting it helps at all
<slangasek> lifeless: since otherwise you make the freeze reviewer do all the uploads & package signing besides
<thumper> hmm..
<lifeless> thumper: I'm not saying 'keep it unsplit' I'm saying 'its on a different dimension'
<lifeless> slangasek: exactly.
 * thumper nods
<james_w> slangasek: so that would be a vote for building from branches?
<james_w> (as a prerequisite for your vote for the landing of changes as a release/SRU team member)
<slangasek> james_w: yesyesyes
<slangasek> :)
<james_w> ok
<lifeless> I find a good way to join dots in situations like this is to take someone - say slangasek - and watch what they do to do a review during freeze; at the first non-well-integrated bit, hit the stop button, go away, fix it.
<lifeless> :)
<poolie> so one lateral approach to this would be to see what is necessary to make revu present the same ui/workflow on top of branches
<lifeless> (given that we have an overall vision already)
<slangasek> actually, thinking on it, -proposed might be the very place to trial build-from-branch
<poolie> i don't know if that's at all feasible
<slangasek> once we're ready for such a trial :)
<james_w> poolie: should be feasible yes
<barry> who's responsible for revu?
<james_w> poolie: except that it has some tie-ins to source packages, and so you have to deal with arbitrary code execution, or take as input a branch and a source package
<slangasek> barry: community members
<ajmitch> barry: I'm one of the revu admins
<slangasek> it's revu.ubuntuwire.com
<ajmitch> rainct has hacked on it quite a bit, branch is on lp:revu
<barry> ajmitch: hi.  i wonder if, as a revu admin, it would make sense to pull you in as a udd stakeholder?
<ajmitch> barry: sure
<slangasek> so another thing that's been on my list for a while that only just now surfaced in my brain... tools for local partial mirrors of bzr package branches
<james_w> so far I have seen 1) better review of package branches (revu, new upstream etc) 2) build-from-branch for PRIMARY
<barry> ajmitch: that would be cool.  i'll add your name to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Meetings
<slangasek> I have a local source mirror of Ubuntu main; I can't easily do the same for the branches AFAIK
<poolie> right, i can see how that would help a lot
<james_w> 3) interacting with git
<james_w> there must be more than that :-)
 * ajmitch had written up some stuff about branch mirrors somewhere, will take a look for it
<barry> james_w: well, there are some lower level pet peeves of mine :)
<poolie> any particular bugs that bite?
<poolie> we'd heard previously that resolving some conflicts were difficult
<poolie> speed/memory usage on huge trees
<poolie> oh, speed of accessing launchpad?
<james_w> v3 quilt packages IMO
<barry> i'm thinking about the whole looms/packaging branches story
<barry> and loom threads <--> patch system
<poolie> that would be good
<poolie> to me that's the likely next bit of feature work, together with colocated branches
<poolie> obviously there are a few entangled bits there
<barry> i suspect nested branches will be part of that solution too
<barry> poolie: yeah
<lifeless> nested-loomed branches.
<lifeless> head-asplode
<lifeless> barry: I'm not convinced - at all - that you want debian/ to be a nested branch.
<barry> lifeless: the real goal there is i think better integration with debian, so that we can get our changes to them
<lifeless> barry: I think that that would be a mistake.
<james_w> and just this second we have https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/libvirt/maverick-201009222219/+merge/36394 to illustrate my point
<poolie> how about issues of mergeability between packaging branches and upstream
<barry> james_w: lovely
<poolie> or reliability of imports?
<barry> poolie: yes, to both, definitely
<poolie> i guess generally i'd like to get a sense for where our users want the more_fixes:more_features slider to be set
<james_w> both ends at once
<barry> lifeless: i've been struggling with the right model and try different things each time.  i'm not positive nested branches are right either, but the current situation isn't ideal.  but i'm very open to suggestions.  i just want the work flow to be much smother
<poolie> yeah i thought so :)
<barry> er, smoother (freudian slip)
 * ajmitch thinks reliability of imports is a big one for adoption of udd - people give up if the branch is several revisions behind
<slangasek> how are we on archive coverage in UDD (i.e., import failures)?  My general impression is that trying to use UDD and running into a package that's not imported / not up-to-date kills any enthusiasm they might've had
<barry> yep, and i'm perfectly happy prioritizing bugs/features so we can knock out the biggest roadblocks first
<slangasek> ah, ajmitch is on the same wavelength :)
<slangasek> so in that respect I think the slider needs to be heavily towards 'bugs' right now
<slangasek> er, 'fixes'; no more bugs please ;)
<poolie> slangasek, barry: james may correct me but i believe the import success rate is above 95% but below 100%
<james_w> we have 725 packages out of date right now
<poolie> so if people access many packages, they may hit that discouraging situation of finding one out of date
<barry> poolie: that roughly jives with my own experience of finding missing or out of date source branches
<james_w> unfortunately they aren't uniformly distributed across the set of all packages
<slangasek> IME the chance of a package being out of date is much, much higher if it's a package that's frequently touched in Ubuntu
<poolie> james_w: out of about 20k?
<poolie> right
<james_w> poolie: ~17k
<slangasek> ... and particularly if it's a package I've touched because I tend to use 'bzr co' instead of 'bzr branch' :/
<barry> james_w: is it at all correlated to vcs's or upstream hosting provider?
<poolie> we did make a graph <https://lpstats.canonical.com/graphs/UddSourcePackagesWithoutBranches/> (canonical-only for technical reasons, sorry)
<poolie> currently reading 0
<james_w> the latest failure appears to be because slangasek just pushed a bzr-git branch to lp:ubuntu/armel-cross-toolchain-base
<poolie> but this is the number of packages with no import branch at all
<slangasek> james_w: oh, does that break things?  Neato!
<poolie> which is not quite the same as them being up to date
<slangasek> james_w: I have two more of those coming ;)
<poolie> i could make a better graph that somehow runs the hottest-100 tool
<james_w> barry: not really. More correlated to the size of package/number of uploads
<poolie> or indeed perhaps just one that parses that number out of the package-import output
 * barry nods
<poolie> james_w would that be reasonable to use? the number on the home page that's currently 725?
<james_w> slangasek: it's not broken as much as asking for a human to check because from it's point of view it just went from one history to another entirely
<james_w> poolie: two concerns, the first being asking the tool for the count isn't going to be entirely accurate, the second being that parsing the webpage probably isn't the cleanest way of doing it
<slangasek> james_w: ok, so that's the intended effect then :)
<james_w> I have no problem with us graphing that number, and could probably even have the tool do it itself
<barry> so, just to bring this topic around, i think we need a well-defined way to identify the problems and publicize our priority for fixing them.  certainly the wiki can be the latter if we can keep it gardened
<poolie> james_w: perhaps i'll graph that as an intermediate step then arrange for our hottest100 verifier (which isn't limited to the hottest100) to be graphed
<barry> i guess lp:udd for bugs for getting issues into the system
<james_w> poolie: fwiw there's already a script on jubany that will output relevant numbers in cricket format
<poolie> [ACTION] poolie to get a better graph of package import failures
<poolie> is that going to work?
<barry> and i will capture what's been identified above
<poolie> or it has to be Mr Barry?
<barry> [ACTION] poolie to get a better graph of package import failures
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to get a better graph of package import failures
<james_w> barry: yes, udd for any bugs related to this at all
<poolie> ok
<poolie> so there's some useful feedback there
<james_w> I'm happy to move them to more appropriate places as needed
<poolie> some of these things are more like tasks; this doesn't totally fit lp's "bug in a package" model
<poolie> but we can do it
<barry> poolie: mootbot is not your friend :)
<poolie> and people seem to generally agree with a slant towards removing bugs that block what's available now
<barry> sounds good
<poolie> and on performance it sounds like, more would be nice but it's not generally the most pressing issue?
 * ajmitch would love to see LP having mirrors of branches somewhere other than the UK, but that's another topic :)
<james_w> I would appreciate someone thinking through with me making the import service more reliable
<lifeless> move it to the main LP infrastructure
<lifeless> there's -lots- of machinery for reliability there.
<poolie> heh
<barry> ajmitch: connectivity to my corner of the USA doesn't seem too bad :)
<lifeless> including scheduling, reporting and alterting
<UndiFineD> ajmitch, what is the size of LP ?
<slangasek> poolie: well, "need partial mirrors" was a proxy for "performance sucks when I have to download the full branch fresh from launchpad to work on an arbitrary package" :-)
<ajmitch> barry: right, it's something I've ranted about before but haven't written up how I think it could possibly work
<poolie> btw jam has a branch up that when landed will cut a bit over 2s overhead off opening an ssh connection to lp
<barry> lifeless: do you know someone on lp who can make that happen? <wink>
<thumper> UndiFineD: size of what? code base, number of branches, size of branches?
<james_w> lifeless: it has scheduling and reporting
<thumper> james_w: who reads the reports?
<UndiFineD> thumper, any info that is relevant to mirroring
<poolie> i'd like to break down the inertia that p-i is just james's thing
<barry> poolie: i *always* use a shared repo
<james_w> thumper: anyone who uses the webpage, I don't know if anyone else looks at them regularly
<james_w> https://dev.launchpad.net/Code/PackageImporter
<poolie> i think some other people have sent you patches?
<poolie> but not very much
<james_w> jam has sent a few
<barry> shall we move on to the next topic?
<lifeless> james_w: its up to you; I think you'd be less of a special case if it ran as part of th eoveral LP stack is all
<lifeless> james_w: I'm not suggesting making it use the DB or anything.
<james_w> lifeless: see the wiki page above
<poolie> barry, yes, let's move on
<thumper> barry: you have 3 minutes :)
<james_w> plus, it would be nice to work out why LP now likes to do this every so often: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/remote-tty.html
<lifeless> james_w: yes yes ;)
<lifeless> oh that 401 is interesting.
<barry> thumper: we might go a little over.  i'm going to skip the critical bugs item because i think we've mined that in this topic (without identifying specific bugs)
<barry> [TOPIC]  * How do we promote and evangelize UDD to the wider Ubuntu developer community?
<barry>  
<MootBot> New Topic:   * How do we promote and evangelize UDD to the wider Ubuntu developer community?
<barry> certainly a uds session is a start
<barry> i've blogged about it, so that reaches two other people
<ajmitch> consistent, clear documentation on how to do common tasks (what's there is pretty good)
<james_w> the documentation could certainly be improved. I consider what's there to be a bare minimum
<barry> ajmitch: i think they are pretty good howtos now (maybe could use a bit of gardening).
<james_w> I think some pictures would help
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-23
<barry> james_w: i'd be willing to start a branch of reST/sphinx docs
<james_w> barry: lets do it
<poolie> it seems like it will tip over once it gets into the general 'how do you start doing things in ubuntu?' documentation
<poolie> not specific UDD stuff
<barry> we just have to be careful about not having two locations for docs that get out of date
<slangasek> barry: how would that integrate with wiki.u.c, which is where existing devs expect to findstuff?
<poolie> which you could say would be the moment we exit our alpha phase
<poolie> it's probably not ready to be the only thing recommended, but is it mentioned there now?
<barry> slangasek: i don't have an answer for that atm, but it's what i was getting at above
<barry> poolie: i think it's pretty well hidden
<slangasek> barry: ack
<barry> [ACTION] barry to start some sphinx docs to be well-integrated w/ wiki.u.c
<poolie> can we make it a bit less hidden now?
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to start some sphinx docs to be well-integrated w/ wiki.u.c
<james_w> Daniel did some work on putting it in as an alternative in the packaging guide I think
<poolie> dholbach?
<james_w> yeah
<poolie> barry could you talk to him too?
<barry> poolie: yep.  i think the way to describe it now is that udd is a viable alternative, may have rough spots, but is the wave of the future
<ajmitch> it's currently in there at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Creating a Debdiff
<james_w> I think this is certainly a topic worth coming back to frequently
<barry> ajmitch: thanks
<barry> james_w: agreed
<barry> [ACTION] barry to talk to dholbach about making sure udd is well advertised in pkg guide
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to talk to dholbach about making sure udd is well advertised in pkg guide
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Promote open job on Python job's board?
<barry>  
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Promote open job on Python job's board?
<barry> poolie: what do you think?
<james_w> what's the purpose of that board?
<thumper> which job?
<barry> to reach the wider python community about job openings
<james_w> then I think it makes sense
<barry> thumper: sorry, i misplaced the link -- it's specifically a canonical udd opening
<thumper> ok
<barry> i will write it up in python job board fashion and submit it.  i just don't want the resumes :)
<poolie> barr, i think that would be great
<james_w> it will certainly involve a lot of Python
<barry> [ACTION] barry to submit udd opening to python job board
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to submit udd opening to python job board
<poolie> i'm actually even more interested in how we could get people with deb/ubuntu packaging experience
<poolie> james_w: you don't have a sister do you?
<barry> poolie: or a twin/clone? :)
<james_w> poolie: I do
<thumper> sibling?
<james_w> not really her area of expertise though
 * slangasek chuckles
<poolie> is there an #ubuntu-jobs, or would it be horribly offtopic to post to ubuntu-devel?
<slangasek> IIRC there's a debian-jobs
<ajmitch> people may watch the normal ubuntu.com/employment page
<james_w> I don't think it would be terribly offtopic
<barry> ajmitch: i think it's on there
<james_w> and we could sell it on debian-jobs
<barry> james_w: debian-jobs is a mailing list?
<james_w> I think so
<poolie> it's http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_BSE
<barry> poolie: thanks
<slangasek> yes, lists.debian.org/debian-jobs/
<poolie> (incidentally the canonical employment page sucks to have such generic text about the jobs, but it's being worked on)
<barry> slangasek: cool.  well, if i'm going to do the pyjobs board, i can send an email to that too.  poolie will you work with me to craft the right language?
<poolie> sure
<poolie> james or slangasek, could you post to ubuntu-devel and to debian-jobs?
<slangasek> though I guess as many Debian people read the webapps.ubuntu.com postings as follow debian-jobs, maybe
<barry> [ACTION] barry and poolie to work on posting to debian-jobs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry and poolie to work on posting to debian-jobs
<james_w> one of the things we are interested in is working better with Debian, so debian-jobs seems vaguely appropriate
<slangasek> barry: we could also circulate it word-of-mouth within the Debian python community, if we're specifically after python + packaging experience
<barry> james_w: +1.  happy too if you or slangasek want to take that on
<slangasek> I wouldn't post it to debian-python though :P
<barry> slangasek: :)
<poolie> slangasek: i'd really appreciate that
<barry> cool. i think we've identified some good outlets
<barry> [TOPIC]  * bzr-debuntu - good idea, crappy implementation? :)
<barry>  
<MootBot> New Topic:   * bzr-debuntu - good idea, crappy implementation? :)
<barry> this is mostly just self gratification :)
<poolie> probably. next topic?
<poolie> :)
<poolie> no, actually it does look good
<ajmitch> brief explanation for the uninitiated?
<poolie> if it's a generic url-shortcutting thing we should probably split it into a mechanism + setting thing
<james_w> barry: I would have no problem merging it with bzr-builddeb if you wanted
<barry> i wasn't sure if ubuntu:maverick/foo was better than ubuntu+maverick/foo, but it was certainly easier to register
<thumper> barry: hmm...
<slangasek> sorry, what's bzr-debuntu?
<poolie> to me the first is more tasteful
<james_w> using one of poolie's favourite terms: "policy layer"
<barry> slangasek: bzr branch u:gtimelog == lp:ubuntu/gtimelog
<ajmitch> a bzr plugin for changing lp: urls to be shorter?
<slangasek> ah
<barry> ajmitch: yep
<poolie> https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr-debuntu
<poolie> https://code.launchpad.net/~barry/bzr-alldocs/debuntu/+merge/36357
<ajmitch> that'd be a lot of documentation to change & habits to break :)
<barry> james_w: +1
<barry> ajmitch: it's just a convenience.  it uses the launchpad plugin to do the actual lookup.  so "quick and dirty"
<slangasek> is that going to be supported by bzr out-of-the-box, like lp: is?  Otherwise it may create tension when it comes to writing Vcs-Bzr fields in packages in particular
<james_w> barry: with additional things that we discussed at the rally too
<thumper> barry: we want to stop the plugin actually doing lookups
<barry> james_w: +1
<thumper> barry: but there is a little more LP work to make that happen
<barry> thumper: nod
<barry> anyway, no need to go into too much detail.  bzr-builddeb does seem like a happy home for it
<poolie> slangasek: i think it's be good to have it built in, which is why i'm interested in making it clean and having separate policy
<poolie> just as simple as {'u': 'lp:ubuntu/'}
<poolie> for the expansions
<barry> cool
<slangasek> ok
<barry> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> yeah, bzr-builddeb is something the dev may install /after/ doing a debcheckout, so we don't want debcheckout to fail :)
<barry> anybody have anything not on the agenda?
<slangasek> not from me
<barry> slangasek: ultimately, they all map back to bzr+ssh urls
<poolie> thanks very much
<slangasek> barry: but doing that mapping by hand as a non-bzr-y dev --> fail
<poolie> i know this meeting was a bit scrappy but it's really useful to be getting some feedback regularly
<barry> one point of order.  dst down under will mean we're moving this meeting one hour earlier utc in two weeks.  we'll keep it that way at least until november (when the usa leaves dst)
<slangasek> poolie: happy to help :)
<poolie> let's do it again in 2m?
<barry> slangasek: i know :(
<poolie> i mean 2 weeks
<james_w> ye
<james_w> p
<slangasek> yeppers
<barry> poolie: phew! i'm hungry.  2w, and yep i agree
<poolie> what barry said is what's already on the calendar, i think
<thumper> ack
<barry> fab.  just wanted to thank everyone for coming and we'll chat again in 2w if not sooner
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:20.
<poolie> and before november, i'll see most of you in florida
<poolie> thanks
<slangasek> thanks, all
<james_w> thanks everyone
 * barry -> dinner
<barry> oh, and i'll get the minutes up on the wiki but probaby not until tomorrow
<nhandler> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 20:00. The chair is nhandler.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nigelb> o/
<nhandler> Classroom Team Meeting. Who is here?
<Pendulum> o/
<pleia2> o/
<nhandler> akgraner, cjohnston: ?
<cjohnston> o/
<nhandler> Looks like Amber isn't here.
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/MeetingAgenda2010Sep23
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/MeetingAgenda2010Sep23
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Who is still involved in the Classroom and what are they doing?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Who is still involved in the Classroom and what are they doing?
<nhandler> I might as well start
<pleia2> :)
<nhandler> Over the past few months, I've been developing ClassBot. Currently, I'm working on cleaning up Lernid a bit (since it has no maintainer) and the LoCo Day event. Next month, I will be coordinating the Packaging Training sessions
<nhandler> Someone else go ahead
<cjohnston> My answer: school sucks
<cjohnston> ;-)
<pleia2> I've mostly been working with individuals to get classes going, but most recently with the BT dev folks to get their programming classes going
<pleia2> and typical stuff like updating the blog, answering replies on the list, etc
<Pendulum> I've been kinda hanging around unsure what I should be/can be doing! (other than trying to recruit teachers)
<nhandler> Pendulum: I'm sure we could find some more stuff for you to do ;)
<nigelb> I've been working on recruiting people for the packaging training and UOW, App Developer Week, and other sessions when they arise.  I'm also around to help in case of trouble during sessions
<cjohnston> I've helped out with ClassBot, helped with UUD.
<Pendulum> oh, and I've helped with UUD
<Pendulum> nhandler: bring it :P
<cjohnston> Help dring sessions when I'm around
<nhandler> On this topic, I was thinking recently that it seems we don't have a good list of people involved in the classroom.
<nigelb> Well, I think its mostly just the 5 of us?
<nhandler> The LP team includes lots of people who are not that active, and it is unclear about who people should contact about different things
<nigelb> The wiki could use an update, yes
<nhandler> nigelb: Not really. For instance, dholbach is involved in Packaging Training, akgraner and jcastro do some other types of events, etc
<cjohnston> I've wanted to clean up the LP list.
<nigelb> nhandler: hrm, true
<nhandler> cjohnston: Before doing that, we should probably figure out what being a member of the team actually means
<nigelb> +1
<Pendulum> +1
<cjohnston> It's somewhat already defined
<cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Volunteer
<cjohnston> Could maybe use tweaking, but its a good start
<nigelb> Oh, that page needs an update
<nhandler> cjohnston: Well, that lists some tasks, and then lists you, me, and pleia2
<nigelb> We don't need session helpers anymore
<nhandler> I see lots of other people on LP. And the way we have the team memberships (packaging training/uud) setup is a bit confusing
<pleia2> I don't even see launchpad as particularly useful to us TBH, except for a management team
<pleia2> if we use it as a centralized "contact us" page, sure, but a team? not so much, we don't vote on things, we only have classbot as a collaborative project
<pleia2> and classbot isn't even related to the classroom team, it's another project with its own devs
<nhandler> pleia2: I agree that the team is not that useful. I think a: "If you need help with foo, contact bar." type page would be better
 * pleia2 nods
<nhandler> And classbot does have its own project and team on LP
<nigelb> We'll need to look at the volunteer page and have more clearly definied activities
<pleia2> do we need blueprints/roadmaps? I don't really see this as an evolving team with long term goals really aside from "get more classes, have more events"
<nigelb> (they are clear, yes, but perhaps a refresh would be useful, like where we /need/ help)
<nhandler> Would someone like to work on driving this membership issue (maybe sending an email to the ML as well)
<nigelb> o/
<nhandler> pleia2: Don't forget, blueprints are for projects iirc. We have an ubuntu-classroom project in addition to the team
<cjohnston> I think blueprints for the "days" and "weeks" just to make sure that everything gets done
<nigelb> I could use some help though
<nhandler> Awesome nigelb
<pleia2> cjohnston: I guess I'm just trying to find a reason for the classroom team existing, if blueprints is one of those reasons
<nhandler> I'd volunteer, but looking at the other agenda items makes me think I'll have my hands full
<cjohnston> ya
<nigelb> heh, true
<cjohnston> I understand
<nigelb> lets move on then?
<nhandler> [ACTION] nigelb to drive the topic of membership
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nigelb to drive the topic of membership
<nhandler> [TOPIC] ClassBot Status Update
<MootBot> New Topic:  ClassBot Status Update
<nhandler> ClassBot has seen a lot of changes recently. One of the biggest is that it is now packaged and has a daily ppa
<pleia2> \o/
<nhandler> Recently, due to some issues, our production server has been updated to use this daily ppa
<cjohnston> and translations!
<nhandler> Yep :)
<nigelb> Great work nhandler and cjohnston :)
<nhandler> This latest push has sadly not been as well tested as I would have liked. So during UOW, please keep a close eye out for bugs and other issues and report them against the classbot project
<nhandler> In the future, I will try harder to keep the unstable stuff separate (and in its own branch now)
<nhandler> As a side note, ClaseBot is also running the same code as ClassBot now. This should allow it to get bug fixes and new features at the same time as ClassBot gets them
<pleia2> does -devel have its own ppa?
<nigelb> We use the learning events calender now for everything right?
<pleia2> currently classroombot (devel) and clasebot are running the same classbot from the same ppa
<nhandler> pleia2: I can set that up once I create a devel bzr branch which will happen when I have some untested changes
<pleia2> nhandler: great, thanks :)
<nhandler> nigelb: Yes
<cjohnston> nhandler: can we document where bots are somewhere?
<pleia2> nhandler: what about non-english classes re: calendar ?
<nhandler> pleia2: I thought devel was running from the bzr branch, not the ppa
<nhandler> pleia2: They are using a separate calendar like we decided
<cjohnston> And it can be some sort of private documentation if we need
<pleia2> nhandler: oh hm, maybe you're right
<nhandler> cjohnston: Yeah. We could probably put that on ubuntu-owl or somewhere
<nhandler> Or the wiki if there is nothing sensitive
 * cjohnston isnt sure he knows what an ubuntu owl is
<pleia2> it's the learning website
<nigelb> lol
<cjohnston> ahh
<cjohnston> only reason would be if we put IP addresses or owners or anything
<nhandler> Well, we can sort this out later once we have some documentation.
<pleia2> yeah :)
<nhandler> cjohnston: Any interest in working on that doc?
<cjohnston> Umm.. Sure.. Right now theres 3 right? Mine pleia2's and clasebot?
<nhandler> cjohnston: clasebot is on pleia2's server as well
<cjohnston> ok. .but still three bots
<nhandler> cjohnston: Yes
<cjohnston> I can do that
<nhandler> Great
<nhandler> [ACTION] cjohnston to work on documenting where the bots are
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjohnston to work on documenting where the bots are
<nhandler> [TOPIC] LoCo Day
<MootBot> New Topic:  LoCo Day
<nhandler> This is a new type of event that I wanted to try out
<nhandler> The main goal is to encourage LoCo teams to start giving more classes in their native languages (and in general)
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDays
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDays
<nhandler> I've started some work on the wiki page, and have set a date of November 5th 2010
<nhandler> We still need to finalize some details though
<nhandler> How long should the event be?
<nhandler> I was thinking one day, but then other people suggested making it a weekend long event
<pleia2> maybe more like UUD?
<pleia2> "weekend long" is tricky for volunteers and doesn't really address time zone issues all that well
<nigelb> tricky for us too, since one of us should probably be around to help in case f trouble
<nhandler> pleia2: Well, the idea was that this event should not require too much work from volunteers and that making it weekend long would give LoCos more choices in when they could present
<cjohnston> And I was thinking that it would provide more opportunities for instructin, and doesn't have to be something that is constant..
<pleia2> nigelb: I meant us == volunteers
<cjohnston> If its 24 hours and I am not available that day I can't teach the class...
<nigelb> pleia2: ah, ok.  we're thinking alike :)
<nhandler> cjohnston: But it won't be individuals presenting. It will be LoCo Teams
<cjohnston> but if its 48-72 it makes better availablilty
<pleia2> cjohnston: yeah, that makes sense
<cjohnston> Will still be individuals
<nigelb> Also, point to note: Everyone will not be listening to every event.
<nhandler> cjohnston: There might be a few, but we should definitely be pushing for teams to be giving the sessions
<cjohnston> a team is not something that can present..
<nigelb> Since the classes are in differrnt languages, breaks can be okay.
<cjohnston> a group of individuals from a team is
<cjohnston> is that im getting at
<nhandler> cjohnston: That is what I meant ;)
<cjohnston> IMO a greater amount of time provides more opportunities for a group of people to be able to make something happen
<nhandler> Do you think that having the sessions not being continuous and spread out will take away from the effectiveness of the event in any way?
<nigelb> No.
<cjohnston> no because if we go from english to spanish to french it will be no different
<cjohnston> they will still be spread out
<cjohnston> unless your planning on the ability to have enlish and spanish and french at the same time
<pleia2> yeah
<nhandler> So the only negative to having it spread out is making it difficult for us to find volunteers, right?
<cjohnston> volunteers meaning us nhandler ?
<nhandler> Yes cjohnston
<cjohnston> Well..
<pleia2> yeah, that's the only negative
<cjohnston> but even still..
<pleia2> maybe we can get more volunteers by then :)
<nigelb> We can ask folks to help :)
<pleia2> and nigelb and Pendulum never sleep, so...
<cjohnston> if its 24 hours, theres still still times that are inconvenient
<cjohnston> And FWIW, I will be on vacation
<nhandler> Well, the only real thing volunteers will be doing for this event will be dealing with problems/missing instructors and answering presenter questions
<nigelb> pleia2: haha
<cjohnston> :-x
<cjohnston> yes
<nhandler> We won't need to do intros or process questions
 * pleia2 nods
<nhandler> I think that we could give a weekend long event a try.
<nigelb> Do we have a target? So we can define success?
<cjohnston> I think we can even do just 48 hours if you like
<cjohnston> I think 24 is too short tho
<nhandler> nigelb: A large number of LoCo teams presenting in a large number of languages followed by LoCos continuing to give sessions
<nigelb> nhandler: That helps :)
<nhandler> cjohnston: Well, we can try Fri-Sun and see what happens. persia was also suggesting something like that iirc
<nigelb> yep
<nhandler> The other issue we had to finalize was the topic of the sessions.
<nigelb> We just have to confirm the time is suitable to the target audience of that language
<cjohnston> We are going to have a topic? I was thinking it was gonna be teams pick?
<nhandler> So far, the best idea imo was having locos basically talking about how to organize a jam, what to do for conferences, tips and tricks, etc
<cjohnston> I dunno
<nhandler> cjohnston: We would give a general topic and then teams would choose the specific topic for their session
<cjohnston> k
<nhandler> Any other ideas for this?
<nigelb> How is classbot expected to wrk?
<pleia2> I don't think I have an opinion either way content-wise, mostly I just want to see folks of other languages presenting something
<nigelb> would we have a language field in the schedule that would make it swtich languages?
<cjohnston> +1 pleia2
<persia> I was suggesting people present in locally-convenient timezones.  I think attempting to restrict to arbitrary 0:00 - 0:00 UTC timeframes is unfortunate.  Better to just set dates, and let folk pick local times on those days.
<cjohnston> who woke up the pleia2
<cjohnston> uggh
<cjohnston> who woke up the persia
<nhandler> nigelb: We could do that. The big issue is, there is no good way to translate the /topic or tell classbot what language to fall back to when none is specified
<nhandler> persia never sleeps ;)
<nigelb> nhandler: can we just assume english if not specified?
<nigelb> cjohnston: Its like afternoon for persia :)
<persia> midday or so, today.  Anyway, back to the meeting :p
<nhandler> nigelb: That would cause issues with something like ClaseBot which has a default language of spanish ;)
 * cjohnston is ready for bed
<nigelb> nhandler: yes, each instance would need its 'mothertongue' specified
<nhandler> So unless I think of something clever, ClassBot might need to be in english (which isn't terrible)
<nigelb> nhandler: calender name or description is possible?
<cjohnston> as far as classbot goes, technically only the instructor needs to know how to understand it
<nhandler> nigelb: I'll try to work on this, but it will largely depend on my free time
<nhandler> cjohnston: Well, people need to know to prefix questions with 'QUESTION:' if it is in english
<nigelb> nhandler: sure, no problem.  I just wanted to raise it since it might be important to LoCo Day
<cjohnston> instructor can tell them that
<nhandler> nigelb: Yep. I've been thinking about that
<nhandler> Alright, so I think we have most of the details sorted out. The next step is marketing and recruiting locos
<nigelb> cjohnston: keyboards may not have english keys set, for example if its for Chineese or Indian langages.
<nhandler> The LC says they are willing to help with that
<cjohnston> Mr. Metal and his team as well
<nigelb> Another community we could talk to is translators
<cjohnston> +1
<nhandler> I'll take the action to update the LoCoDay wiki pages based on this discussion and send out an email anouncing the event
<pleia2> unfortunately I'm going to be hard-pressed to do my standard classroom tasks now - november, so I can't really help out with this
<nigelb> oh, ugh, Nov 5  - hangover after uds
<persia> nigelb, at least Chinese/Korean/Japanese keyboards have a way to type in English easily (if the writer knows English).  I suspect that most keyboards are able to control ClassBot.
<nhandler> nigelb: It was the best weekend I could find ;)
<nigelb> persia: In that case, my point is moot
 * nhandler isn't even sure ClassBot has translations for most of those Asian languages
<nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to update LoCo Day wiki pages and send out announcement
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to update LoCo Day wiki pages and send out announcement
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Classroom wiki pages Update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Classroom wiki pages Update
<nhandler> We touched on this earlier. A lot of our wiki pages are simply out of date
<pleia2> yeah, we do this review every year or so, we're due for another overhaul
<nhandler> I don't think we have a lot of pages, and most are fairly short. Does someone feel up to driving this task?
<pleia2> I can make myself available for answering historical questions (can I delete this? do we still want this process?)
<cjohnston> What would y'all think about moving away from the wiki and moving to something like WP..
<pleia2> we already have a blog
<cjohnston> Provide a lot more flexibility
<pleia2> less flexibility, limited editors
<cjohnston> Allow embedding of the calendar
<nhandler> Having at least our main page on the wiki is also nice for linking to logs and stuff
<cjohnston> How many people edit the wiki
<cjohnston> and how often does it need to be edited
<cjohnston> Logs can be linked from WP
<nhandler> cjohnston: The main page has 164 revisions
<cjohnston> just a thought
<pleia2> we can make ubuntuclassroom.wordpress.com/calendar/ if that's a concern
<pleia2> but I like the wiki
<nhandler> We have fridge.ubuntu.com/classroom already as well
<pleia2> yeah
<cjohnston> ok
<pleia2> nhandler: maybe we should start linking to the fridge calendar (once the Grand Fridge Migration is done)
<pleia2> rather than your people page
<nhandler> I think if we try and make ourselves available to answering questions about the pages, we could probably try and recruit people to help update the wiki
 * pleia2 nods
<Pendulum> I'm happy to drive updating the wiki
<nhandler> pleia2: Agreed. I was hoping we would have been migrated by now (which is why I held off on doing the switch)
<nhandler> Pendulum: That works too. Thanks a lot
<nhandler> [ACTION] Pendulum to drive the Classroom wiki update
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Pendulum to drive the Classroom wiki update
<Pendulum> (I was going to volunteer and then cjohnston brought up WP so I was waiting until that got talked out ;-) )
<pleia2> thanks Pendulum :)
<nhandler> Pendulum: Feel free to try and recruit some new people to help with that as well
<pleia2> Pendulum: and nag me any time for historical questions
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Lernid Status Update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lernid Status Update
<nhandler> Lernid is currently unmaintained
<cjohnston> need devs now that nhandler is on it
<nhandler> We got the config file moved to ubuntu-owl (so we can update it)
<nigelb> And we got a redirect to ubuntu-owl
<nhandler> I am currently working on patching the source to remove the need for the config completely
<pleia2> yay
<nigelb> \o/
<nhandler> Whether or not I succeed in that is to be determined
<nhandler> But do we want to continue to recommend lernid with it having open bugs and being unmaintained
<pleia2> I'll be honest, I've never really been a big supporter of it
<nhandler> It is just as easy imo to provide a webchat.freenode.net link that opens the classroom and -chat
<pleia2> I agree
<nhandler> The slide feature is the one thing we would really lose, but not many instructors even utilized that
<nigelb> Only advantage lernid provides is for user days like events, I'm not sure if its big enough to continue recommending it
<pleia2> I don't think I ever managed to get the slide bit of lernid working :)
<nigelb> heh
<pleia2> it's easy enough to open up the pdf myself
<cjohnston> i saw it working
<cjohnston> was cool
<nhandler> So what should or stance be on it? Should we support it but not recommend it? Or just let it die until a new maintainer shows up?
<pleia2> support but not recommend
<cjohnston> I think one of the problems is that we dont have enough classes
<nhandler> The big issue we will have is for certain events that use the classroom that continue to recommend it
<pleia2> but support from me might be "use the webchat" ;)
<cjohnston> i think it is currently best suited for uow uadw etc
<nigelb> uud
<nigelb> nhandler: We can ask akgraner and jcastro to phase it out of the announcements from next cycle if needed
<cjohnston> but we have to push instructors towards using it to make it worth pushing students to use it
<pleia2> I think we need to talk to the uow and uadw folks about the reality of the software maturity
<pleia2> lernid breakage is making things *worse* for newcomers than the webchat would be
<nhandler> pleia2: +1. We also need to decide what we want to do about the .lernid file. Should we continue to update it? Or just leave the 'All Classroom Sessions' event and stop updating it for new events
<pleia2> nhandler: I think we should continue to update it at least until the end of the year, maybe lernid devs will come back or show up
<pleia2> at the end of the year we can re-evaluate, but not now, so close to UOW
<cjohnston> nhandler: it should be possible for lernid when it is opened to download the ical and determine from that upcoming events
<nhandler> cjohnston: It will if I figure out how to get that working. Right now, I have added a catch-all event that lists all sessions for the year
<cjohnston> just like cb
<cjohnston> ahh
<nhandler> However, if we aren't going to be recommending lernid, I'm not sure how much time/effort I'm going to put into getting that feature working (I'm not a python dev)
<nhandler> Would someone like to talk to the UOW, UDW, UUD, etc organizers about lernid and explain our POV
<Pendulum> I think all the UUD organizers are here
<nigelb> heh
<nhandler> Pendulum: Yeah, it is mainly the other events. We could probably fill them in when we talk to them over the course of the week
<nigelb> I can do thata
<nhandler> Thanks nigelb
<pleia2> thanks nigelb :)
<nhandler> [ACTION] nigelb to talk to event organizers about our stance of supporting (at least through the end of the year) but not recommending lernid
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nigelb to talk to event organizers about our stance of supporting (at least through the end of the year) but not recommending lernid
<nhandler> [TOPIC] User Days
<MootBot> New Topic:  User Days
<nhandler> cjohnston: You're up
<cjohnston> Need to start plannign
<nhandler> Do we have a date?
<cjohnston> nope
<nigelb> can we postpone this discussion to after UDS?
<nigelb> I think there was a talk of moving app developer week around during last UDS, not sure if that happened this cycle
<cjohnston> We had talked about trying to get UUD to be shortly after the release.. but its too late for that I think
<nigelb> It is
<cjohnston> I don't care.. What ever yall wanna do is fine
<nigelb> heh
<pleia2> november and december get tricky, maybe push to jan? (but yeah, we can talk about this after UDS when we see the schedule of other events)
<cjohnston> thats fine
<nhandler> Alright
<cjohnston> postpne
<nhandler> [AGREED] Postpone UUD discussion until after UDS
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Postpone UUD discussion until after UDS
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Calendar
<MootBot> New Topic:  Calendar
<nhandler> nigelb: Your turn
<cjohnston> uh oh
<nigelb> ok, so, I'll probalby need some shields before I suggest this
<nigelb> Right now we use the learning events calender for all our events
<nigelb> I know it has been a pain to integrate it everywhre, but we've maanged
<nigelb> Recently mhall119 and doctormo suggested generating ical on the fly from a webapp
<nigelb> I'd like to bring this into consideration since it helps us do more magic like force validation
<nhandler> nigelb: The nice thing about using an ical with google calendar is that we can use many different apps to sync with it and edit it
<nhandler> For instance, I can add events from my web browser, or from my iPod's calendar app, or even in evolution
<nigelb> nhandler: yes, but a webapp can potentiall remove the need to know formatting
<cjohnston> I do like the idea of the webapp
<nigelb> Again, I'm not forcing the decision, but just something we ought to try
<nhandler> nigelb: We could add a webapp that simply adds an event to the existing ical
<nigelb> nhandler: that would work too
<pleia2> yeah, I'd like that
<nhandler> I think I have most of the code handy (from my classbot test suite code I'm working on)
<nhandler> pleia2: Does ubuntu-owl support Perl?
<nigelb> then we'd just need to host it
<cjohnston> host? the site?
<cjohnston> I can do that
<pleia2> nhandler: it doesn't currently have a cgi-bin, but it can
<nhandler> Well, it looks like hosting won't be an issue. I'll start on the script. We can then recruit someone else to beautify it if we want (I don't do css and that stuff)
<pleia2> yay :)
 * nigelb does
<cjohnston> I may be confused..
<nigelb> I mean I can do the css stuff a bit
<nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to create web application to add events to existing ical
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to create web application to add events to existing ical
<nhandler> nigelb: Cool
<nhandler> nigelb: I'll talk to you once I have a script
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Any other topics?
<nigelb> great, will do :)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other topics?
<cjohnston> 1 sec
<cjohnston> nhandler: i think what mhall119 is talking about is the app he started developing during his django class sessions
<cjohnston> https://edge.launchpad.net/classroom-scheduler
<nhandler> cjohnston: I haven't looked closely at the code. What other features does that provide?
<pleia2> Django is a lot to install for just a form to update an ical :\
<cjohnston> I couldn't really tell you what it currently provides.. it can provide anything you want
<cjohnston> I think its going to be more than just updating an ical
<cjohnston> without mhall119 here to discuss more though, I can't really tell you what all his plans were
<nhandler> The nice thing about this simple script is that people who don't want to use it and don't want to change their workflow don't need to. We also wouldn't need to update everything that mentions the ical
<pleia2> nhandler: *nod*
<nhandler> I *think* his script helped with scheduling or displaying the schedule as well
<pleia2> it was *a lot* of work to update everything to our google calendar and get everyone used to that workflow, I really don't want to go through that again (we've gone through multiple incantations of this same process a few times, I was relieved to be settled upon the goog calendar)
<cjohnston> prolly
<nhandler> I have no issue listening to what mhall119 has to say, but unless he has a pretty good reason to switch, I think I am still in favor of the current ical
<nhandler> cjohnston: Do you want to try and talk to him to get an explanation of what his django app has to offer?
<cjohnston> I will ask him to send an email to the ML explaining and showing
<nhandler> [ACTION cjohnston to talk to mhall119 to have him send an email to the ML explaining his django calendar app
<nhandler> [ACTION] cjohnston to talk to mhall119 to have him send an email to the ML explaining his django calendar app
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjohnston to talk to mhall119 to have him send an email to the ML explaining his django calendar app
<nhandler> Alright, once again
<pleia2> this does bring up a problem we seem to be continuing to have within the community, people keep developing apps to "help classroom" without telling us
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Any other Business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other Business?
<pleia2> how do we fix this?
<nhandler> [TOPIC] 3rd party classroom applications
<MootBot> New Topic:  3rd party classroom applications
<cjohnston> there was an entire week of classroom sessions about this
<pleia2> it was a class about django, I didn't realize it was developing an app for classroom
<nhandler> pleia2: We could possibly try to document them on the wiki
<nigelb> pleia2: a blog post would be nice telling folks to talk to us
<nigelb> and yes, wiki documentation
<nigelb> if you're an app developer and want to "help", talk to us first
<nhandler> nigelb: They don't even need to talk to us first, we would just like to know what they are making so we can provide some input
<pleia2> yeah, I hate to see folks put in a lot of effort and promotion of something that ends up not working out (I do feel a bit sad about lernid)
<nhandler> Pendulum: Maybe the creation of such a page during the wiki cleanup would be useful
<Pendulum> nhandler: I'll add it to the list :)
<nhandler> Awesome
<nhandler> [ACTION] Pendulum to create page listing classroom-related applications on the wiki
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Pendulum to create page listing classroom-related applications on the wiki
<nhandler> Any more topics?
<pleia2> I think I'm done
<nhandler> cjohnston, nigelb, Pendulum ?
<nigelb> none :)
<cjohnston> none
<pleia2> thanks everyone!
<nhandler> Any volunteers for minutes? Otherwise, I'll try to get to them (might not be until Sunday)
 * cjohnston goes back to homework
<nhandler> Alright...
<nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to do minutes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to do minutes
<nigelb> heh
<nhandler> Great meeting everyone
<pleia2> thanks nhandler :)
<nhandler> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 21:18.
<nigelb> thak you nhandler !
<mhall119> I'm here
<yessy> hola a todo
<thorwil> mpt, godbyk: hi!
<mpt> hi thorwil
<godbyk> Hey, thorwil
<thorwil> mgunes
<sabdfl> hello everybody
<godbyk> Hey, mpt. Did you see the logs of last week's meeting?  (Our little existential crisis.)
<mpt> I did not
<mpt> I'm reading them now
<godbyk> 'kay.
<mpt> Sorry I wasn't here last week, I was frantically testing USC
<godbyk> Excuses, excuses. :)
<thorwil> mpt: no worries, it somehow ended up being the most interesting so far without you ;)
 * mpt waves at JanCBorchardt 
<mpt> I intended this team as a way to encourage UX activities in Ubuntu generally
<thorwil> i tried to "climb up" to see what it should be about on a high level and ended up with: http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/266161/
<mpt> But far from being a cure to the "meh, it's all too hard" problem, so far it's ended up as an example of it :-)
<thorwil> far from finnished
<mpt> "Institutionalizing UX", as wers said
<JanCBorchardt> hey
<godbyk> mpt: I like the 'institutionalizing ux' goal.
<godbyk> Hey, JanCBorchardt.
<godbyk> thorwil: What am I reading? <http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/266161/>
<JanCBorchardt> thorwil, additional issue: developers might bow to "popular demand" on bug reports, even though it might only be for power users
<thorwil> godbyk: meant to be some thinking behind what could become a manifesto
<godbyk> thorwil: ah, understood.
<thorwil> JanCBorchardt: right, added as "- Developers might bow to "popular demand", even though it might only be what the loudest users think they want"
<JanCBorchardt> thorwil: yes, and especially with the point that people on mailing lists / bug reports etc are not "the user"
<thorwil> godbyk: so i came to the thought that floss needs to be justified from a pure "end"-user pov
<JanCBorchardt> might be worth adding as well because it is often forgotten
<wers> wassup?
<thorwil> hi wers
<JanCBorchardt> wers: hey
<wers> hello thorwil . sorry was stuck in traffic
<wers> hi JanCBorchardt
<wers> what did I miss?
<godbyk> wers: Not too much. mpt is reading last week's logs. thorwil has some notes on a manifesto.
<JanCBorchardt> <thorwil> i tried to "climb up" to see what it should be about on a high level and ended up with: http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/266161/
<godbyk> Okay, I just uploaded a couple PDFs to my Dropbox account. What's the easiest way to share them with all of you?
<mpt> thorwil, that's good stuff, though I have a theory that calling anything a "manifesto" makes it less likely to affect anything.
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk: put them in the Public folder and share the public link
<mpt> ;-)
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk: or we could have a shared Ayatana folder, for convenience
<thorwil> wers: http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/266166/
<wers> niiice
<thorwil> mpt: yeah, "manifesto" is pompous
<godbyk> JanCBorchardt: Okay, I've succeeded in the first part of that.. Where do I go to get the links?
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk: right-click -> Dropbox -> copy public link ;)
<wers> ok. what is this document exactly? mission statement of what?
<godbyk> mpt: Yeah, the 'manifesto' bit is rather tongue-in-cheek.
<godbyk> JanCBorchardt: cool. thanks.
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk: but I guess we should have a shared folder anyway. or a sparkleshare repo maybe?
<godbyk> Okay, so here are the bits of a couple books that I scanned last weekend for you guys:
<godbyk> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5067756/Designing%20From%20Both%20Sides%20of%20the%20Screen.pdf
<godbyk> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5067756/Universal%20Principals%20of%20Design.pdf
<wers> JanCBorchardt, +1 for sparkleshare repo (though I haven't successfully configured it yet)
<thorwil> wers: the umbrella for our activities
<godbyk> I haven't had time to play with SS yet, but I like the idea a lot.
<wers> thorwil, by "our" you mean Ayatana UX?
<thorwil> wers: no, actually 1 or 2 levels up
<JanCBorchardt> mpt, thorwil: "writeup"? ;)
<wers> thorwil, as in "FOSS Designers" kind of level?
<thorwil> JanCBorchardt: hmm?
<thorwil> wers: yes
<wers> ok
<JanCBorchardt> thorwil: instead of manifesto
<mpt> That second book I have right next to me
<mpt> Universal principles of design
<mpt> It's excellent
<godbyk> mpt: Yeah, I scanned the TOC of that book since you'd brought it up in our earlier conversations.
<thorwil> JanCBorchardt: oh, sure. or "central piece of drivel"
<godbyk> There are more principles and whatnot scattered through a lot of the other books I have, but those two had theirs listed in once place, so it took less effort on my part to scan them. :)
<JanCBorchardt> we have us a nice new sparkly repository: http://gitorious.org/ayatana-ux
<wers> JanCBorchardt, great
<JanCBorchardt> feel free to throw your gitorious names at me so I can add you as collaborators
<JanCBorchardt> I'm at work right now, being busy and all ;)
<godbyk> JanCBorchardt: I just signed up: godbyk.
<wers> mpt, what can you say about the issues raised last week?
<godbyk> One of the reasons I haven't emailed the group yet is that I wanted to look at the latest KDE and GNOME HIGs.
<mpt> still reading
<godbyk> I've only had time to glance through them so far.
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk: you're in
<godbyk> I do like the patterns work in GNOME HIG 3.
<godbyk> But I'd like to see some discussion of the design *process*, too.
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk: feel free to upload the pdfs there (if that's legal ;)
<godbyk> JanCBorchardt: cool. thanks!
<wers> godbyk, you haven't emailed what yet? you mean, the pdfs?
<thorwil> JanCBorchardt: surprise surprise, i'm "thorwil" on gitorious
<godbyk> wers: The PDFs, yeah. (I just shared those through Dropbox, however). And I was going to write a better summary proposal that addressed some of the issues/questions raised last week.
<mpt> wers, there are plenty of books about how to make software with great UX. We wouldn't gain much by writing another one. What there isn't, afaik, is advice on overcoming the problems specific to (a) distributed development and (b) volunteer development.
<JanCBorchardt> thorwil: already found you ;)
<thorwil> godbyk: what's the question there? briefing, research, conception, design, implementation, testing, deployment ... all iterative
<wers> mpt, I agree
<JanCBorchardt> mpt, wers, do you have gitorious accounts?
<mpt> I don't
<wers> we can refer to Roshanak's study when she's done
<wers> JanCBorchardt, I'll make one
<thorwil> mpt: agree partially, though one could wonder why developers apparently don't read those books
<godbyk> thorwil: Do you carry that litany in your pocket or something? :-)
<thorwil> lol
<godbyk> There's also the issue of figuring out which book(s) one should take the time to read.
<thorwil> godbyk: what industrial designers are taught regarding design methods looks quite a lot like the models found in software development. just a few steps that depend on the field
<mpt> thorwil, that problem is one of (b). :-)
<godbyk> thorwil: Yeah, the basic process is pretty much the same across fields. (Though it seems to be re-articulated a lot.)
<thorwil> godbyk: if i ruled the world, a generic take of it would be taught in secondary schools. as methodic problem solving :)
<godbyk> thorwil: If only.  :-)
<thorwil> there was a very recent attempt to define a vision/direction over in fedora land. most productive irc session i ever skimmed. the conclusion was "THIS IS NOT WORTH MY TIME AND EFFORT". http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-advisory-board/2010-09-22/fedora_20_visioneering.2010-09-22-20.19.log.html
<thorwil> so a failure at the briefing stage. of a project running since long :)
<godbyk> nice
<mpt> wow
<godbyk> mpt: just finish reading?
<thorwil> error: "wow" lacks clear context
<mpt> That's all so depressing
<mpt> That IRC log
<mpt> Fedora's, not ours :-)
<godbyk> mpt: heh. I was gonna say, I didn't think out meeting last week was *that* bad. :-)
<sabdfl> let's not get tribal
<godbyk> sabdfl: Was that suggested somewhere?
<thorwil> sabdfl: in case it's not clear, that was not meant as a "ha ha, look at them", but rather just an example how things can go and what we might be up against
<thorwil> i see mizmo as someone pulling in a similar direction as i do (or would like to do), she just chose a different party
 * thorwil -> coffee
<wers> JanCBorchardt, any update on the usability lab?
<wers> I think, that project will attract designers to use a free desktop. if that happens, we'll likely have more UX contributors
<JanCBorchardt> wers: unfortunately not, tangled up in work as of late
<JanCBorchardt> but the Shotwell report is finished and published soon
<wers> I've seen one. Nick Fine from UX Exchange (he hasn't always been into FOSS, afaik) is trying to join Ayatana UX on Launchpad
<wers> JanCBorchardt, that's cool. slowly but surely
<wers> check this out too http://uxexchange.com/questions/3908/suggestions-for-an-inexpensive-usability-lab/3911#3911
<JanCBorchardt> wers: ping me as soon as you have a gitorious account
<JanCBorchardt> wers: nice going :)
<wers> JanCBorchardt, it used to have more votes. my theory is makers of proprietary usability testing apps are voting it down
<JanCBorchardt> wers: wow, thats really nasty
<wers> that's just a theory, but my point is, designers are that desperate for a free usability testing app
<wers> JanCBorchardt, allancaeg on gitorous
<wers> JanCBorchardt, it's not a baseless theory, btw. those are my only down votes in the site(afaik) and I'm currently the top 3 contributor
<JanCBorchardt> wers: you're in
<JanCBorchardt> wers: well, we can't have everyone to like open source :)
<wers> yep, especially if its bad for their business ;)
<JanCBorchardt> wers: as long as it remains the top answer it's their loss ;)
<wers> JanCBorchardt, haha. yeah :D
<JanCBorchardt> just read the fedora log
<JanCBorchardt> really sad but true
<JanCBorchardt> but it is in apps like Gwibber where the power of the desktop vs the wild web is really showing
<wers> just read it now too
<wers> which makes me ask...
<wers> do we have personas for Ubuntu?
<wers> I see some usability testing going on here http://design.canonical.com/the-research/
<wers> I suppose, the participants represent the personas
<JanCBorchardt> you need a vision rather than personas
<wers> vision + personas
<wers> UCD can't be done without defining the user first
<wers> hbons started the discussion for GNOME's personas. unfortunately, it's far from done
<wers> and it's not based on actual research. simply on views of the people involved in defining them (personas)
<wers> it was stated earlier that one problem is we're centered on devs scratching their own itches. we need to define first whose itches are we going to scratch
<godbyk> wers: I agree.
<JanCBorchardt> wers: yes, the problem with personas is that they are often thought up out of the blue
<wers> JanCBorchardt, that's right. personas are anti-UCD whenever they're inaccurate. we need hard data. we need research
<wers> or else, we'll end up doing usability testing on people who don't use Ubuntu... or limited to a subset of people who use Ubuntu
<wers> ok so do we have an action item here (defining Ubuntu's personas) or do we already have personas that I don't know about?
<wers> mpt?
<mpt> wers, I'm going to talk with charline about that
<wers> cool
<mpt> She has lots of information on our users, I'm not sure if it's data as such
<godbyk> mpt: Are there any standard personas that are used consistently?  For a lot of the specs it seems that a new 'persona' is tailor-created just to illustrate a particular point.
<wers> mpt, ok. we actually have a personas document at work. it was done by 3 organizations and Human Factors International was one of them. It was done in a span of 3 months. it's worth the investment though. I just don't think I can share the document here. hehe
<mpt> godbyk, that's exactly right, they're made up ad hoc
<wers> I invite you to read http://www.jjg.net/elements/pdf/elements.pdf
<wers> it shows there that the first step is to define business and user goals. user goals are defined by personas and stuff like that
<godbyk> Right.
<wers> here's a longer version http://www.adaptivepath.com/events/workshops/businessofux/elements0803.pdf they're Adaptive Path's UX workshop slides
<godbyk> You can also buy his book.
<wers> godbyk, ah yes. haha
<wers> I got stuck in the free stuff. what can I do? Google scholar is giving some of 'em away. hehe
<godbyk> I'm with you there. :)
<wers> godbyk, but if amazon shipping was more accessible and affordable for me, I'd also go for the book ;)
<godbyk> wers: Since I have a .edu email address, I signed up for a free year of Amazon Prime (which means I get free two-day shipping).
<wers> godbyk, nice
<godbyk> wers: They make it entirely too easy for me to give them my money.
<wers> haha :D good for you. as for me, Amazon shipping is either unavailable or too expensive
<Javier_> Buen dÃ­a alguien me puede colaborar con una consulta respecto a ubuntu 9.1 y adsl
<chrisccoulson> !es | Javier_
<ubottu> Javier_: En la mayorÃ­a de canales de Ubuntu se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter.
<bcurtiswx_> AlanBell, I was told to ping you about acquiring mootbot?
<AlanBell> hi bcurtiswx_
<bcurtiswx_> hi AlanBell
<bcurtiswx_> it would be for #ubuntu-bugs
<AlanBell> I can send my development bot over to you, which channel?
<bcurtiswx_> we have meetings every 2nd tuesday
<AlanBell> generally teams like that have meetings in this channel
<bcurtiswx_> we've always held it in our channel
 * bcurtiswx_ shrugs, would it benefit to have it here instead?
<bcurtiswx_> AlanBell, ^^
<AlanBell> sorry, got called away
<AlanBell> the theory is that having teams like that meeting here means that people idling here can see the meetings happening
<AlanBell> loco teams meet in their own channels because there are oodles of them
<AlanBell> and some teams meet in their own channels because they feel like it
<AlanBell> as you already meet in your own channel I will send the bot in . . .
<chikilis> buenas tardes, sera que me pueden ayudar, por q al convertir un video a otro formato me vaja la resolucion con (ffmpeg -i vudeo  video.avi)
<chikilis> queda muy pixelado
<SergioMeneses> chikilis: go to #ubuntu-es
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-24
 * freeflying 
<inkvizitor68sl> re all
<Riddell> hi
<ttx> \o
 * joshuahoover waves
<didrocks> hey
<cjwatson> hi
<ScottK> o/
<iulian> Hi.
<skaet> hi all. ...
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [TOPIC]  open actions
<MootBot> New Topic:   open actions
<skaet> # sistpoty to update delegations list and mail out - done 20090922
<skaet> # skaet to update release process with multiverse delegation decision time, and freeze times.
<skaet> have gone in and added some notes to the release process as well,  so that
<skaet> should be close to done as well for the second one.
<skaet> ScottK,  sistpoty - can you review?
<ScottK> Sure. Link?
<skaet> will post later
<ScottK> OK
<skaet> Other than that,  been seeing lots of good progress on closing bugs this week.   Very cool.
<ogra> moo
<skaet> Big thanks to all :D
<skaet> did I miss any action items?
 * skaet taking silence as no ;),  ... and moving along then
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA updates
<marjo_> Hardware testing
<marjo_> http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo_> Boot Performance
<marjo_> http://people.canonical.com/~ameetp/BootChart.html
<marjo_> Boot Performance Week of 2010-09-17 to 2010-09-23
<marjo_> -------------------------------------------------
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ameetp/BootChart.html
<marjo_> Number of system regressions on Ubuntu Desktop: 0
<marjo_> Number of system regressions on Ubuntu Netbook Edition: 0
<marjo_> Number of system regressions on Kubuntu: 0
<marjo_> Spec Status
<marjo_>  * http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.10.html
<marjo_>  * https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-maverick-improving-communication
<marjo_>  * https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-maverick-mago-daily
<marjo_>  ara is making good progress on both
<marjo_>  Other blueprints are 100% complete.
<marjo_> skaet: short and sweet status this week
<marjo_> ameetp is working on getting more systems to be included in boot metrics
<skaet> marjo,  cool.
<marjo_> skaet: that's it from QA Team
<skaet> thanks marjo_
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] security team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  security team update
<jdstrand> o/
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<skaet> hi jdstrand
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> Again, wrt the burndown chart, what is left for us is not tied to the release.
<jdstrand> We have a couple bugs we have deferred to SRU: bug #626984 and bug #640993
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 626984 in apparmor (Ubuntu Maverick) "apparmor_parser crashed with SIGSEGV in __libc_start_main()" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/626984
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 640993 in libvirt (Ubuntu Maverick) "USB hot attach does not work (hostdev functionality only partially implemented)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/640993
<jdstrand> The team has been reviewing security bugs that affect the maverick release, and have been pushing last minute updates in. We plan to continue to review these.
<jdstrand> that's pretty much it
<skaet> thanks jdstrand,   any questions?
<jdstrand> sure
<skaet> hmm,  now that I think of it,  should I be removing bug #625849 from the agenda?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625849 in clamav (Ubuntu) "Upcoming release fixes bzlib security issue" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625849
<skaet> ahh... now released
<skaet> yup should remove it.  ;)
<jdstrand> I would say yes :)
<skaet> cool.   Thanks!
<skaet> ... ok then,  moving right along
<skaet> [TOPIC] kernel team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel team update
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> For the bugs noted in the agenda, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> Bug 633392 - Have inquired about additional debug info from the reporter.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633392 in linux (Ubuntu) "Bridged Guests losing network connectivity" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633392
<ogasawara> Bug 628029 - This has been re-targeted to maverick-updates.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628029 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "[maverick] panda omap4 does not suspend" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628029
<ogasawara> Bug 615722 - We don't support a fsl-imx51 kernel in Maverick.  I've marked this as Invalid against Maverick and asked for clarification if it's re-opened.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 615722 in linux-fsl-imx51 (Ubuntu Lucid) "Missing a patch to switch low power mode only support in mc13892 2.0a" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/615722
<ogasawara> Bug 613083 - Per jjohansen's commments from last week's release meeting, Amazon is addressing this issue.
<ubottu> Bug 613083 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/613083 is private
<ogasawara> Bug 497546 - There's no confirmation that this issue remains with Maverick so I've asked for testing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 497546 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu Lucid) "Microphones not working on Dell Vostro 320" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497546
<ogasawara> As a general status, per a Kernel Freeze Exception last week (bug 641648) we've uploaded what we hope to be the final Maverick kernel (2.6.35-22.33).  We continue to be below the trend line for our overall burn down chart and all of our workitems are now complete.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 641648 in meta-gnome2 (Ubuntu) "Gnome's password prompt captures almost all input" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641648
<ogasawara> We are also starting to queue Maverick SRU patches, including the 2.6.35.5 upstream stable patch set.  I did however want to inquire about a 0-day kernel upload for a subset of patches.  We have 5 low/medium security fixes for CVE's and some AppArmor security fixes that will be landing shortly.  I'm told these are not release critical and don't need immediate upload.  However, I think they do warrent a 0-day kernel uploa
<ogasawara> d.  I can write up a more detailed bug report for official consideration/approval if this sounds reasonable.  Thoughts?
<cjwatson> 0-day kernel upload is practically traditional by now
<ogasawara> it is :)
 * skaet notes this.   ;)
<skaet> thanks ogasawara,  sounds reasonable.
<ogasawara> skaet: ack, will get you a detailed report for approval.
<skaet> thanks for the quick cut/paste update - sweet.   :)
<ogasawara> Any other questions?
<skaet> anyone else have questions?
<skaet> snap
<skaet> :)
<doko> ogasawara: any word on bug #605042 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605042 in eglibc (Ubuntu Maverick) "[armel] java fails to start with eglibc-2.12-0ubuntu4" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605042
<ogasawara> doko: not that I'm aware of at the moment, will ping cooloney.
<skaet> [ACTION] ogasawara to write up detailed bug report for those that may warrant a 0 day kernel upload.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara to write up detailed bug report for those that may warrant a 0 day kernel upload.
<skaet> ok ogasawara?
<ogasawara> skaet: yep
<skaet> cool
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC]  foundation team update
<MootBot> New Topic:   foundation team update
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<cjwatson> Generally feeling pretty good at this point.  We have traction on three of our longest-standing RC bugs (441941, 544139, 605042), and plenty of throughput elsewhere.  software-center is now 3.0!
<cjwatson> The only one that still particularly scares me is the cluster of machines reporting boot loader issues in bug 641259.  While this may still prove to be intractable, we'll see what we can do.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 641259 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "grub does not appear to load after maverick post-beta install" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641259
<cjwatson> Can desktop folks (both GNOME and KDE) please review bug 459639?  There's a comment from Scott saying that while it perhaps ought to be fixed in Upstart in the long run, it should be worked around by display manager packages in the meantime; no comment from desktop maintainers since then.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459639 in kdebase-workspace (Ubuntu Maverick) "X server starts randomly in failsafe when starting from cold boot" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459639
<cjwatson> It's not clear whether bug 625294 is a syslinux problem at all, rather than a BIOS problem (perhaps related to bug 625383).  I've updated the bug report with my findings.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625294 in syslinux (Ubuntu Maverick) "localboot in pxelinux recurses back into pxelinux, and eventually crashes" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625294
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625383 in syslinux (Ubuntu) "grub hangs at early booting after handoff from PXE" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625383
<cjwatson> that's all I have currently but am open to reminders of things we seem to have forgotten
<ttx> cjwatson: sure? :)
<didrocks> cjwatson: I'll add it to our list for getting desktop team feedback
<cjwatson> ttx: go ahead, if you have something ...
<cjwatson> didrocks: thanks
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 641259 - grub does not appear to load after maverick post-beta install
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 569900 - mount: mounting /dev/md0 on /root/ failed: Invalid argument
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 641259 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "grub does not appear to load after maverick post-beta install" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641259
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569900 in mdadm (Ubuntu Lucid) "mount: mounting /dev/md0 on /root/ failed: Invalid argument" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569900
<ttx> that's the two in my list
<cjwatson> I mentioned 641259 above
<cjwatson> if you guys have anyone who can look at it directly with physical access, I welcome them doing some debugging to try to figure out what's going on
<cjwatson> but I don't see how I can do significant amounts remotely at this point
<ttx> cjwatson: ack
<cjwatson> I thought I'd asked Surbhi to look into bug 569900, but will check
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569900 in mdadm (Ubuntu Lucid) "mount: mounting /dev/md0 on /root/ failed: Invalid argument" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569900
<ttx> cjwatson: thanks !
<cjwatson> it's also I think obviously not maverick-critical since we released lucid with it
<cjwatson> and only happens in particular circumstances depending on the previous contents of the disks
<ttx> cjwatson: right -- this one is nice to have, not necessarily RC.
<cjwatson> though I do have bug 605720 open in my queue, since a commenter on the bug reckons that's the root cause
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605720 in util-linux (Ubuntu) "fdisk creates partition beyond end of disk" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605720
<skaet> thanks cjwatson,  sounds like we're fairly smooth towards the release from your perspective (relative to prior ones ;) )?
<ttx> skaet: we'll see how calm he is by that time next week :)
<skaet> :)
<cjwatson> quite so.  not getting complacent yet
<cjwatson> the truncated cycle has meant fewer features going in, hence less to go wrong
 * skaet keeping fingers crossed for a calm week in london ;)
<skaet> cool.   thanks
 * ttx crosses fingers for a short week.
<skaet> yup, hoping for week to end on friday (mostly) not sunday ;)
<skaet> [TOPIC] server team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  server team update
<cjwatson> I go home on Friday either way ;-)
<ttx> See updated status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<ttx> No release-milestoned bugs, and for all the others, I don't think any of those would warrant a post-RC fix
<ttx> 3 high bugs left:
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 582963 - apache2 SSL pass phrase dialog can't read input (zul/SpamapS): in progress
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 629005 - libmysqlclient / mysql-cluster upgrade snafu (zul): in progress
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 644587 (universe) - drizzle FTBFS (SpamampS): in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582963 in apache2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "SSL pass phrase dialog can't read input" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 629005 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu Maverick) "package libmysqlclient16 5.1.41-3ubuntu12.6 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/libmysqlclient.so.16.0.0', which is also in package mysql-cluster-client-5.1 0:7.0.9-1ubuntu7" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/629005
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 644587 in drizzle (Ubuntu Maverick) "fails to build from source on maverick" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/644587
<ttx> We have 9 other maverick-targeted bugs that we may fix before RC as well.
<ttx> Maverick bugs affecting server, in other teams:
<ttx> I already mentioned the Foundations ones
<ttx> We have 3 kernel bugs related to cloud images:
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 613083 - user-data is corrupted inside metadata service
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 613273 - kernel panic on ec2 in system_call_fastpath
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 634487 - t1.micro instance hangs when installing sun java
<ubottu> Bug 613083 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/613083 is private
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613273 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel panic on ec2 in system_call_fastpath" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613273
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634487 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "t1.micro instance hangs when installing sun java" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634487
<ttx> those are all on jjohansen's radar
<ttx> On the specs side...
<ttx> Essential/High/Medium specs < 60% completion
<ttx> #
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-images-sans-cloud (0%) - only one work item, in progress
<ttx> #
<ttx> server-maverick-workitemtracker (0%) - a bit late, but process-related only
<ttx> #
<ttx> server-maverick-puppet-bootstrap (43%)
<ttx> #
<ttx> server-maverick-daily-vcs (50%)
<ttx> all tasks being disconnected from release anyway.
<ttx> That's all from me...
<skaet> cool.
<ttx> one last thing
<skaet> thanks ttx
<skaet> ?
<ttx> i'll be at a conference next Thursday, for RC milestone release
<ttx> Daviey and mathiaz should cover for me if need be
<skaet> good to know,  thanks.
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] desktop team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  desktop team update
<didrocks> hi
<didrocks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<didrocks> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<didrocks> Work items summary: We are on track for maverick, most of the items remaining on the chart are testsuite or bug workflow ones
<didrocks> Week work summary:
<didrocks> * Unity got updated to a new version which fixes more than 40 bugs! still a new version coming after the meeting.
<didrocks> * One of the fix relied on an libindicator ABI transition, which has been handled (14 rdepends). Still waiting on ubiquity merge.
<didrocks> * Lot of bugs have been fixed
<didrocks> * Some UIF exceptions completed for unity and indicators particularly
<didrocks> * Final pieces (except glib/gtk) from GNOME 2.31.92 has been uploaded.
<didrocks> Notes:
<didrocks> * GNOME 2.32.0 tarballs are released on Monday
<didrocks> * New unity this afternoon to be uploaded
<didrocks>  
<didrocks> Bugs:
<didrocks> * being investigated
<didrocks> bug #329898: interaction in some locales with ibus issue, needs to be confirmed on maverick still
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 329898 in ibus (Ubuntu Maverick) "The HP 1018 printer not work out of the box if used non-US locale" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329898
<didrocks> bug #602899: bug assigned to our xorg maintainer who asked the submitter to test previous kernel to find when the regression happened
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602899 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Maverick) "[gm45] Xserver crash" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602899
<didrocks> bug #614119: pitti work on it on Monday
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 614119 in upower (Ubuntu Maverick) "upowerd crashed with SIGSEGV in dbus_connection_send()" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614119
<didrocks> bug #575160: cyphermox is looking at it, not sure it's trivial
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575160 in seamonkey (Ubuntu Maverick) "seamonkey 2.0 crashes with 'RenderBadPicture' diagnostics" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575160
<didrocks>  
<didrocks>  
<didrocks> * being worked
<didrocks> bug #628077: intel driver issue with a patch available in ppa, still need to be uploaded
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628077 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Maverick) "[i865] Crash on logout with KDM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628077
<didrocks>  
<didrocks> * fixed this week
<didrocks> bug #625696: fixed in a nautilus upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625696 in Nautilus "Nautilus crash when IM preedit" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625696
<didrocks> bug #606706: fixed by pitti
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606706 in pm-utils (Ubuntu Maverick) "[maverick] HD spins down all the time on AC" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606706
<didrocks> bug #187823: after discussion with debian maintainer, the crashing part due to new cairo of the testsuite is ignored
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 187823 in libcairo-perl (Ubuntu Hardy) "ftbfs (1 failed test) with current cairo version" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187823
<didrocks> bug #607490: fixed and confirmed by some comments.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 607490 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu Maverick) "Xorg fails with "NVIDIA(0): Failed to allocate primary buffer: out of memory."" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607490
<didrocks> bug #641056: gdk-pixbuf fix is done, and ia32-libs just approved 5 minutes ago!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 641056 in ia32-libs (Ubuntu Maverick) "Loader chooses 64-bit instead of 32-bit library" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641056
<didrocks> that's it for me :)
<skaet> :)
<skaet> Thanks didrocks.   nice progress indeed.
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] ubuntu one update
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu one update
<doko> didrocks: any update on bug #632594 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 632594 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "xvfb 1.9 and/or metacity not working on the buildds" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/632594
 * joshuahoover waits...
 * skaet thanks joshuahoover
<didrocks> doko: not that I know of, will add it to our radar
<doko> didrocks: just breaks any testsuite using xvfb ...
<doko> thanks
<didrocks> doko: will ask to RAOF for the xorg side, I'll have a look for metacity one
<joshuahoover> ready for ubuntu one now? :)
<skaet> go for it.  :)
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/MaverickReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> hi! the list of bugs we're targeting for maverick release are found on that release status page i posted
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/MaverickReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> there are 6 bugs we'd still like to get in for release if possible
<joshuahoover> we went through our maverick bugs list and determined there are some that will be better as SRUs so these 6 are the ones left that we think are important for release (listing below with rough order of importance & a little detail on each):
<joshuahoover> bug #643787 - Erlang certificate verification does not work with new SSL...we need to get this in to get couchdb replication working properly...statik is working on getting the upload ready...we need to file an sru for lucid and karmic but need to test things first
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 643787 in erlang (Ubuntu Maverick) "certificate verifcation does not work with newSSL" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/643787
<joshuahoover> bug #422178 - CouchDB needs to properly enable SSL support...need this to get couchdb replication working (along w/ erlang bug mentioned above)...statik chatted with mdeslaur about getting sru of the maverick version of couchdb into lucid and karmic - sounds like that'll be ok...but first need to get this in for maverick :) ...working on that right now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 422178 in couchdb (Ubuntu Maverick) "CouchDB needs to properly enable SSL support" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/422178
<joshuahoover> bug #618945 - working on the fix right now - with ubuntuone store plugin enabled Rhythmbox can not import files or folders
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 618945 in The Ubuntu Music Store Rhythmbox plugin "Maverick: with the ubuntuone store plugin enabled Rhythmbox can not import files or folders" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618945
<joshuahoover> bug #644547 - fix for error when removing current computer from Devices list
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 644547 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "Error when removing current computer from Devices list" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/644547
<joshuahoover> bug #645518 - fix for Nautilus plugin to notify about u1 shares being deleted
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 645518 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "nautilus plugin should notify about share delete errors" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/645518
<joshuahoover> bug #617656 - Nautilus hangs while asking for folders  - still working on tracking down the root cause...we'd really like to get this fixed for release but it's not affecting many users (that we're aware of) and it's been super tricky to troubleshoot
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 617656 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu Maverick) "nautilus hangs while asking for folders" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/617656
<skaet> re: 617656,  ack.
<joshuahoover> and that's it for ubuntu one...questions/concerns?
<skaet> for the others,  statik gave a heads up about the first couple.
<skaet> robbiew, cjwatson - any concerns from your side?
<robbiew> heh...none from me
<cjwatson> not really, just need to get fixes in by start of next week really
<cjwatson> post-RC changes are always tougher
<robbiew> +1
<joshuahoover> cjwatson, robbiew: that's the plan
<robbiew> joshuahoover: cool, thnx
<skaet> cool.
<skaet> ... moving along then.
<skaet> [TOPIC] kubuntu team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  kubuntu team update
<Riddell> hi
<skaet> hi
<Riddell>  * Qt 4.7.0 and QtWebkit 2.0.0 released and packaged, new KPackageKit in, no more version uploads expected
<Riddell>  * component mismatches is tidied up for Kubuntu bits
<Riddell>  * new mesa update expected, fixing bug 633406 and others
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633406 in mesa (Ubuntu Maverick) "Display freeze when changing kwin effects settings if effects are active" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633406
<Riddell>  * update to samba sharing still expected
<Riddell>  * 15 tagged beasties http://tinyurl.com/33p7vu3, only one critical (bug 646827, ev says he's looking)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 646827 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity KDE frontend does not start" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/646827
<ScottK> The proposed mesa upload apparently clears up several kwin related issues.
<cjwatson> Riddell: could somebody have a look at bug 459639 again, in light of Scott's recent comment?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459639 in kdebase-workspace (Ubuntu Maverick) "X server starts randomly in failsafe when starting from cold boot" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459639
<Riddell> cjwatson: just browsed it quickly after you mentioned it above, will look closer after meeting
<cjwatson> thanks
<skaet> thanks Riddell,  ScottK.  :)   any other questions?
<ScottK> No, just busy cherrypicking kdesvn since we won't get KDE 4.5.2 due to the early release.
<skaet> ok then.    moving along...
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop experience
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop experience
 * skaet looks around...
<ogra> lost in a memory leak ?
<skaet> or on another channel ;)
<ogra> yeah :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] user experience
<MootBot> New Topic:  user experience
<skaet> hmm... think we should probably move on here as well....
<skaet> will follow up with them offline.
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update
<ogra> thats me !!
<skaet> yay
<skaet> :)
<ogra> Detailed status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Short summary:
<ogra>  * Lots of fixes went into the omap3 and 4 images
<ogra>  * TI PPA apturl support fully implemented (we have a neat TI icon on the desktop now and software-center is just awesome, kudos to mvo and mpt !!)
<ogra>  * !!! NOTE for the Universe release managers: OMAP3 3D drivers are packaged and currently in review, we will likely upload to universe early next week.
<ogra>  * Still the whole team is focused on fixing the highmem and sound issues on OMAP4 in close collaboration with the respective TI teams
<ogra>  * The FTBFS list on qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs is empty now.
<ogra>  * There were build issues with the dove images due to antimony (our main build machine) being upgraded to lucid
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Status:
<ogra> Entire http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<ogra> Release: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10.html
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Two "normal" bugs still targeted for final release
<ogra> ...
<ogra> (piecemeal paste today :) )
<ogra> Serious blocker bugs:
<ogra> bug 633227
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633227 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "instabilities with highmem activated" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633227
<ogra> bug 637947
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 637947 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "no sound devices on current ES2.0 boards" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/637947
<ogra> bug 646421
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 646421 in user-setup (Ubuntu Maverick) "oem-config process that zero's swap broken on armel preinstalled images" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/646421
<ogra> bug 605042
<ogra> ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605042 in eglibc (Ubuntu Maverick) "[armel] java fails to start with eglibc-2.12-0ubuntu4" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605042
<ogra> the last one is being worked around by adding a new buildd to the pool temporary ...
<ogra> the pre-last one was only found yesterday and is very serious (enabling crypted home fills up your root partition)
<ogra> and there is more to paste :)
<ogra> !!! Expected serious impact for final release (section did change this time :) ... leaving here as a general reminder) !!!
<ogra> ...
<ogra>  * We will get the final hardware date for OAMP4 was confirmed to be October 4th, it might be necessary that the OMAP4 image release gets delayed
<ogra>  * The above will also require late kernel and bootloader package changes and uploads to the archive (linaro release management is aware (we are using their u-boot package))
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ogra>  * TI works hard currently to get all code ready and prepared already where it can be done without new silicon
<ogra>  * We are trying to get it in by hard freeze (oct 6th), if that does not work for some reason (silicon or code bugs) we will resort to doing SRUs for the above mentioned packages.
<ogra>  * In case the release for OAMP4 wont be on time we will roll a delayed image as 10.10.1 for OMAP4 specifically based on the SRU packages.
<ogra> ...
<ogra> On an additional matter, we are looking for help with bug 635840. It affects a good bunch of packages in universe and by the looks of it david will not get it fixed alone in time (worst case we would have to SRU all rdeps but would like to avoid that)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 635840 in plplot (Ubuntu Maverick) "plplot fails to build on maverick" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/635840
<ogra> pfft ...
<ogra> bug 635840
<ogra> thats all i had to paste :)
<skaet> thanks ogra!  :)   fun times ahead for OMAP4... :/
<ogra> yeah :/
<ogra> (and we were planning to have a 10.07 lucid release for it ... muhahaha)
<skaet> any questions (or volunteering of help for 635840)?
 * skaet has heard about 10.07.... 
<ogra> yeah, it will likely become 10.10.1
<ogra> version numbers are so cheap :P
<skaet> heh
<skaet> moving along...
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU update
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU update
 * skaet looks for ScottK ?
<ScottK> Hello
<skaet> hi
<skaet> :)
<ScottK> Made some good progress on FTBFS and NBS in the last week, but much more to do.
<iulian> Indeed, just wanted to say that the number of packages that fail to build from source in the universe component has dropped down to 100 from 268 in just two weeks and the NBS list has obviously been shortened as well.
<ScottK> We got the Universe/Multiverse delegations and final freeze schedules out.
<skaet> yay
<ogra> wow
<iulian> (Thanks to all who have helped to cut down these lists.)
<ScottK> iulian: There was a mass giveback yesterday, so once it finishes retries, the final number will be higher.
<ScottK> (but it's still gotten significantly smaller)
<iulian> ScottK: Excellent.
<ScottK> I'd like to check and make sure everyone is OK with adjusting the delegations as I proposed here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2010-September/000119.html
<ScottK> That's all.
<iulian> I've already ack'd it so I'm out.
<skaet> Thanks ScottK.:)
<cjwatson> sugar> I'm fine with that
 * ogra likes to point to the "NOTE for the Universe release managers" line above again for more awareness
<skaet> Link to the Release process update is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseProcess   figured the delegations should have been done about release -28 days.   ok?
<skaet> Also wasn't sure that the final freeze date for universe/multiverse was typical this time around, so wanted to get input there too.
<ScottK> skaet: Delegations should have been done before Feature Freeze.
<skaet> ScottK, ok,  will adjust.   Thanks.
<ScottK> We are still looking for the sweet spot on final freeze for unseeded packages.
<ScottK> We can update based on how this goes.
<skaet> fair 'nuf
<iulian> ScottK: Ah, bleah.  Didn't know about the mass giveback.
<ScottK> iulian: Yeah.  It's still better, just not as much better as it looks right now.
<iulian> :-(
<skaet> any other questions?
<ScottK> I'm going to consider the Sugar delegation approved.
<skaet> ok.
<skaet> will move on...
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro team update
 * skaet looks for JamieBennett ?
<skaet> hmm... some nice active other channels today I guess ;)
<skaet> [TOPIC] open floor - any issues to raise?
<MootBot> New Topic:  open floor - any issues to raise?
 * skaet looking around for a wave?
<davidbarth> skaet: maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus for you information (sorry was on a call and I missed the time)
<ScottK> When do we want to start to spin candidate RC images (i.e. stop processing uploads)?
<ScottK> Tuesday AM?
<Riddell> sladen: any news on the font?
<skaet> davidbarth, thanks.
<skaet> robbiew, ^^ question from ScottK
<robbiew> ScottK: ack
<robbiew> Tuesday AM
<cjwatson> it'll be a busy weekend
<cjwatson> *sigh*
<skaet> Riddell, sladen wasn't able to make meeting.
<skaet> any other questions?
<ScottK> We could do it robbiew style and just spin ISOs on Thursday.
<Riddell> who is actually taking charge of spinning ISOs?
<robbiew> ScottK: heh
<robbiew> Riddell: yeah....I need to figure that out
<robbiew> Riddell: volunteering?
<robbiew> :D
<Riddell> could do
<skaet> heh.  looks like robbiew has his volunteer ;)
<robbiew> sweet!
<skaet> robbiew,  will you send a note around communicating the plan and dates for the RC images?
<robbiew> yep
<skaet> great.  Thanks.
<skaet> ... ok,  since am not seeing any new waves,  probably time to end the meeting.
<skaet> thanks again for the great progress on the bugs this week.  :D
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:20.
<skaet> thanks marjo, ogasawara, cjwatson, robbiew, ScottK, ogra, ttx, Riddell, iulian, joshuahoover, didrocks, doko for good input  :)
<marjo_> skaet: thx!
<ogra> thanks :)
<joshuahoover> thank you skaet!
<robbiew> skaet: no...THANK YOU! :)
<ogasawara> skaet: thanks!
<didrocks> thanks everyone :)
<skaet> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-26
<topyli> hi
 * charlie-tca waves
<topyli> ircc meeting, who's in?
<nhandler> Hey topyli
<nhandler> Pici, tsimpson: You guys around?
<nhandler> topyli: So, what do you think we should do? We already cancelled the last meeting.
<topyli> well, no quorum, no agenda items
<nhandler> topyli: Yep. Hopefully, we will be able to reach quorum again soon (it will help when jussi's schedule returns to normal)
<topyli> if someone else has issues, we can hear them but not act officially
<topyli> yes we can grant jussi a day for a honeymoon.  :)
<nhandler> So does anyone here have any last minute things they would like discussed?
 * nhandler is sorry for not sending out a reminder, he didn't wake up until ~1hr before the meeting
 * charlie-tca dropped in to observe today
<nhandler> topyli: Would you like to send out an email to the ML explaining what happened at this "meeting" ?
<topyli> nhandler: will do
<nhandler> Great. Thanks topyli
<topyli> ok, until next one,cheers
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-19
<ara> hello!
<roadmr> hi!
<ara> who's around for the UF meeting?
<brendand> hi!
<jedimike> hi!
 * roadmr UF
<ara> OK, let's get started :)
<ara> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 19 15:02:41 2011 UTC.  The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ara> Agenda:
<ara> Feedback priorities
<ara> AOB
<ara> #topic Feedback priorities
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Feedback priorities
<ara> First of all, thanks to all that provided feedback
<ara> I am sure I missed some of the points, so let's try to cover what we have and add more if we can remember some more
<ara> the list so far is at:
<ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback
<ara> We are the final sprint for Oneiric and we have to be careful to make the best decisions. For the feedback that we are receiving for UF there let's try to come up with a solution for each of it.
<ara> Possible solutions
<ara> * 0.12.8
<ara> * PPA
<ara> * Won't Fix
<ara> * Remove test
<ara> 0.12.8 is due in a couple of weeks and it will probably be the last checkbox release in Oneiric, PPA is the rewrite of checkbox that we are developing and that will be released as a PPA, Won't Fix and Remove test are clear enough ;-)
<ara> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback
<ara> So, going one by one
<ara> 1. Superuser warning should appear at the beginning
<roadmr> o/
<ara> roadmr, go ahead
<roadmr> there's currently a known bug in checkbox where it skips the welcome and test selection screens, goes directly into the tests
<brendand> o/
<ara> roadmr, can we have the bug number, please?
<roadmr> this exacerbates the problem observed, once the bug is fixed, we could add the warning in the welcome screen's text
<roadmr> sure: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/852204
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 852204 in checkbox "Test selection screen does not appear" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<roadmr> ..
<ara> brendand,
<brendand> i don't think this should be a high priority. you could argue that putting it before the welcome screen would be more confusing
<brendand> ..
<ara> o/
<ara> brendand, yes, I think the real problem is the bug for the welcome screen, not the message
<ara> so I think the solution would be to fix that bug for 0.12.8
<ara> ..
<brendand> definitely
<victorp> o/
<ara> victorp, go ahead
<victorp> can we triage that bug
<ara> victorp, I just did ;-)
<victorp> hehe ...
<ara> cool, one off
<ara> 2. mem_test is crashing for many users
<ara> The value of this test is very arguable
<ara> my suggestion would be to raise a bug about it and to remove the test
<victorp> bug  - https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox/+bug/853799
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 853799 in checkbox "remove memory test from ubuntu friendly whitelist (default)" [Critical,Confirmed]
<brendand> o/
<ara> victorp, thanks ;-)
<ara> brendand,
<brendand> i think there is value in checking if the RAM in the system is usable but i don't think this test is going about it in a way that suits the needs of the ubuntu friendly program
<brendand> removing it is an okay short term solution though
<brendand> ...
<ara> brendand, cool, milestoned as well, thanks
<ara> Moving to the next one
<ara> 3. when a test moves from interactive to non-interactive, the test information should be updated.
<ara> I am sure that there is a old bug about this
<ara> did anyone try to find it?
<roadmr> o/
<ara> roadmr, you go
<brendand> o/
<roadmr> The bug doesn't ring a bell, though we'd have to go look at old bugs, there aren't that many so if it's there we should find it
<roadmr> We do need to improve our progress indication when non-interactive tests are running
<roadmr> we'd have to look at the amount of work (mainly in the gtk interface) to make this less confusing
<roadmr> ..
<ara> thanks
<ara> brendand, your turn
<victorp> o/
<brendand> nearly 3 years old to be precise...
<brendand> http://launchpad.net/bugs/283929
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 283929 in checkbox "Answer from previous question is shown while automated tests are run" [Low,Triaged]
<brendand> ..
<ara> brendand, thanks!
<ara> victorp, you go now
<victorp> seems that this is a gui thing... if we are going to rewrite the UI seems better to fix it then
<brendand> o/
<victorp> unless is a blocker
<victorp> ..
<ara> I don't think it is a blocker, I would vote to fix it in the PPA
<ara> brendand
 * victorp wonders if we can create a milestone for that
<akgraner> o/
<brendand> i'd say PPA too. the controls are disabled while the automated test is running so even if it is confusing, there's no scope for the user to do anything wrong.
<brendand> ...
<ara> akgraner, you go
<akgraner> If you fix it in a ppa will end users know how to update easily?
<akgraner> I don't use PPA that much
<akgraner> ...
<ara> o/
<victorp> ara - can we stop calling it a ppa and say 12.04 instead
<victorp> oops o/
<victorp> :)
<victorp> ..
<ara> The so-called ppa  is intended to be a "nicer" checkbox that will be released in P
<ara> so, yes, we can call it something else :)
<ara> ..
<ara> (not sure if 12.04 is the best way to call it, though)
<ara> akgraner, the default checkbox will be usable and we will let people know how to upgrade if the want to use the fancy one
<ara> ..
<ara> next one
<ara> 4. graphics/resolution test failed with a dual monitor set up
<brendand> o/
<ara> brendand, go ahead
<brendand> is there a bug? has anyone confirmed this?
<brendand> ...
<ara> brendand, this is coming from Carlos, but I am not sure if he raised a bug
<ara> so the first action here would be to confirm it and raise a bug ;-)
<ara> but if we confirm it I would vote to fix it in Oneiric
<victorp> o/
<ara> victorp, go
<victorp> I would think then as Carlos to do so and move on
<victorp> ..
<brendand> o/
<victorp> s/as/ask/
<ara> brendand
<brendand> i did just check and it is confirmable (you get two lines with an * instead of one)
<brendand> as victorp said, ping hggdh to raise a bug and then deal with it
<brendand> which i think should be in 0.12.8
<brendand> since i imagine a lot of people will run with a display connected
<brendand> ...
<ara> OK, let's do that then
<ara> Next one
<ara> 5. suspend/resume should warn the user that it might fail
<ara> I think the test already warns the user, doesn't it?
<brendand> o/
<roadmr> o/
<ara> brendand, go
<brendand> i don't think so
 * brendand checks
<ara> roadmr, ?
<roadmr> from the test description: "If your system fails to wake at all and must be rebooted,
<roadmr> restart System Testing after reboot and mark this test as Failed."
<brendand> a little bit. could be clearer
<roadmr> yep, not sure how changing a test description at this point affects things. Well that's all I had on this test.
<roadmr> ..
<ara> o/
<bladernr> o/
<ara> I think for Oneiric is good enough
<ara> ..
<ara> bladernr, go
<bladernr> was just going to say that changing the actual test descriptions would require a translation change, and thus an exception pushed through at this point...
<bladernr> at least that's my understanding of it
<bladernr> ...
<ara> o/
<ara> Yes I think that's the case
<ara> I think we can mark this one as "won't fix"
<ara> ..
<ara> Cool, next one
<ara> 6. ftp test is not working
<victorp> o/
<ara> victorp, go ahead :)
<victorp> ftp test!!! realy?
<victorp> really I meant
<victorp> I dont really sure what this tells us about the system
<victorp> I say remove it
<victorp> ..
<ara> +1
<roadmr> +1 on killing ftp test
<bladernr> +1
<brendand> +1
<ara> Cool, I will raise a bug and will milestone it for 0.12.8
<ara> 7. Some testing that I do not have hardware for like PCMCIA are still being asked for
<roadmr> o/
<ara> roadmr, go ahead
<roadmr> I don't recall what the agreement was on this, but I think we can't detect pcmcia so we have to ask for it. We could phrase it as "does your system have pcmcia?" instead of what we have now, which leaves the impression we are asking for stuff the system doesn't have
<roadmr> in general we should make sure we don't ask for hardware we can otherwise detect, but if we can't detect it, asking is better than just doing nothing.
<roadmr> ..
<ara> o/
<bladernr> o/
<ara> I think this can be deferred for checkbox gui rewrite
<ara> ..
<ara> bladernr, your turn
<bladernr> let me conflate a couple things... I think you suggested marking hte suspend test description change as wont fix, i'd suggest postponing that one and this one for P and handle it then (or not)
<bladernr> but both seem to be useful changes, but probably not achievable for Oneiric...
<bladernr> however, I'd like to make sure both live so we don't forget them for P
<bladernr> ..
<ara> sounds good to me
<victorp> +1
<ara> Cool, next one
<ara> 8. USB storage transfer takes forever
<victorp> o/
<ara> victorp, go ahead
<victorp> maybe that was just me? has anyone else experience the same ? akgraner?
<victorp> ..
<bladernr> o/
<ara> bladernr, go
<bladernr> is that the automated USB storage transfer test?
<bladernr> if so, it takes a while because it creates an arbitrarily big file to transfer to usb storage and then checksums it to compare with the copy on hard disk...
<bladernr> the file size could be made smaller, thus significantly speeding up the test... the file size was purely arbitrary
<bladernr> ..
<ara> o/
<ara> then I vote to fix it (make it smaller) for P, but I don't see a very high value in fixing it for Oneiric at this point
<ara> ..
<brendand> o/
<ara> brendand, yes?
<brendand> i think that's some pretty tasty low-hanging fruit :)
<victorp> 0/
<victorp> o
<brendand> am i right bladernr?
<brendand> ...
<ara> victorp, go
<bladernr> +1 brendand
<victorp> 5 minutes out of 15-20 minutes run seems pretty bad to me and worth doing if just it requires changing a magic number
<victorp> plus the file shouldn't be bigger that 1K if we are checking crc here, I dont think size matters ;)
<victorp> ..
<bladernr> that's what she said
<victorp> s/that/than/
<bladernr> o/
<victorp> no
<victorp> she said fixit for P I am saying O
<ara> bladernr, go ahead
<victorp> o/
<bladernr> A: nevermind, bad joke... as for the magic number, it's a very easy fix as brendan said, so +1 for fixing on 0. The default is 32mb, so we could definintely make the default smaller (1MB or 1K or 100K or whatever)
<bladernr> ..
<bladernr> er... O not 0
<ara> my only concern is that they'll accept it or not
<ara> victorp, go ahead
<victorp> I vote for milestoning thisfor 0.12.8
 * victorp gets the bad joke now... really bad
<victorp> ara- why would they accept the other fixes (mem test) and not this one?
<victorp> ..
<ara> victorp, I don't know, in this case we are changing a test, in the other case we are removing it
<ara> but I am happy to try
<victorp> ah, well we should ask in any case
<ara> cool
<ara> next one
 * victorp ..
<ara> last one
<ara> 9. Submitting results is not clear
<ara> this is a problem by itself
<victorp> o/
<ara> if you leave that blank it won't accept the submission (unless something changed in between)
<ara> ..
<ara> victorp, ?
<victorp> I must say that is "submitting results with you LP id" is not clear
<victorp> ..
<ara> but if you leave it blank? does it submit?
<roadmr>  o/
<victorp> anonymous submissions?
 * victorp has not tried that
<ara> roadmr, go ahead
<roadmr> If you don't enter an email address, a dialog says "not submitting to launchpad" and you end up in the "successfully finished testing!" screen
<roadmr> if you then press "previous" and do enter an email address, it can submit to launchpad
<ara> roadmr, but if you leave it blank it won't submit
<roadmr> I agree that the UI/sequence is a bit confusing, but it works and it does warn you that it won't submit if left blank
<ara> which it was my point
<victorp> o/
<ara> we should accept blank emails
<ara> victorp, yes
<roadmr> ok ok, if that's the idea then we do need some changes :0
<roadmr> ..
<victorp> a simple solution would be to put in the test box by default [enter your email here]
<victorp> s/test/text/ !!!
<victorp> what is up with me today
<victorp> ..
<ara> o/
<ara> but what should we do with blank emails?
<victorp> go ahead ara ;)
<ara> ..
<victorp> o/
<ara> victorp, just go if nobody is talking
<victorp> I am +1 on anonymous submissions unless we see most people are using it
<roadmr> o/
<ara> roadmr, yup
<victorp> so what am I saying is go ahead with accepting it and introduce a ban on them later on
<victorp> ..
<roadmr> one very simple solution would be forcing a "dummy" email address for blank submissions
<roadmr> so if it's blank, checkbox sends it as if coming from anonymouscoward@somewhere.com, and we know that all submissions from that address were anonymously sent
<victorp> anonymous@ubuntu.com
<roadmr> ..
<ara> +1
<victorp> o/
<ara> victorp, yes?
<victorp> is that doable for 0.12.8 or shall we leave it to P?
<victorp> ..
<ara> o/
<ara> I think it is quite a bit change, I am afraid :(
<ara> ..
<victorp> o/
<victorp> I would say do it in P
<bladernr> o/
<victorp> we dont seem to have a lack of submissions
<victorp> there is 48 for oneiric at the moment
<victorp> ..
<ara> bladernr, yes?
<bladernr> to avoid trying to work this into checkbox for O, would it be possible to do that server-side instead of the client side?
<bladernr> ..
<ara> bladernr, the UI won't submit without email
<ara> I would say, do it in P
<ara> ..
<bladernr> ahhh... I thought that may have changed for anonymous subs...
<bladernr> ..
<ara> Cool, I think this covers the first topic
<ara> Moving on quickly (we are already out of time)
<ara> #topic Ubuntu Friendly website: http://bit.ly/UbuntuFriendly
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Friendly website: http://bit.ly/UbuntuFriendly
<ara> victorp has suggested to cover this topic during this meeting
<ara> victorp, anything you want to mention specifically?
<victorp> o?
<victorp> I like it!
<victorp> ;)
<victorp> ..
<jedimike> o/
<ara> jedimike, go!
<jedimike> i like it too
<jedimike> ..
 * victorp thinks jedimike and cr3 are doing a great job
 * ara likes it as well :)
<ara> anyway, just a reminder that feedback and bugs (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-friendly) are more than welcome :)
<victorp> Any one has contrustive feedback , please?
<victorp> ara - can you set up answers in there
<ara> victorp, sure
<ara> done
<roadmr> other than polishing things (the search controls on the left) I'd say it's looking very nice so far
<victorp> I think that will be useful to things like this, rather than bugs
<ara> #topic Any Other Business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any Other Business?
<victorp> akgraner, have you had time to look at it?
<ara> going once...
<ara> going twice...
<ara> gone!
<ara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 19 16:07:45 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-19-15.02.moin.txt
<ara> thanks all!
<roadmr> it's gone, gone, gone :( and I can't go oooon!
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> hello!
<micahg> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 19 17:07:24 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
 * bliss burns a candle for kees
<jdstrand> Thanks to zooko and jtaylor for their help on security updates for the community supported taylor-lafs last week. Great job! :)
<mdeslaur> bliss: hehe
<jdstrand> err, that isn't the right package name
<jdstrand> tahoe-lafs
<jdstrand> and yes, kees departure
<jdstrand> As kees mentioned via his blog last week, he has left Canonical to pursue other opportunities. We wish him well and look forward to continuing to work with him on Ubuntu in the community.
<jdstrand> I'm happy to say that the talents of the Ubuntu Security team run deep and we are in good shape. Moving forward, people should direct questions regarding userspace/toolchain hardening to sbeattie.
<jdstrand> We are in the process of finalizing the details for the kernel security position, so in the meantime questions on kernel publication should be directed to mdeslaur and kernel hardening can be asked of the team in #ubuntu-hardened.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week. Part of my work on that will include training tyhicks` on UCT
<jdstrand> I've got a small pile of MIRs I need to tend to
<jdstrand> a few work items are left, which I hope to try to work on
<jdstrand> and I have some apparmor policy updates I am working on
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're next
<mdeslaur> I plan on publishing ffmpeg/libav updates today
<mdeslaur> and will go down the list to pick something else
<mdeslaur> I think there's iso testing also this week that I'll do
<mdeslaur> and, I'm doing the kernel workflow also
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: tag, you're it
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I'm poking at php5 in part prompted by a community member contributing a fix for an open issues there.
<sbeattie> Also, I'm still poking at apache as well, both for the security issue fixied in 2.2.21 and some of the byterange regressions fixed as well.
<sbeattie> I'll also be doing some testing for beta 2 (I have a couple of systems to upgrade to O) and hopefully some iso testing as well.
<sbeattie> I think that covers it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: ping
<micahg> update chromium and prepare mozilla updates for next week's release train
<micahg> that's it
<micahg> tyhicks`: ping
<tyhicks`> I'm still working on the mutt update. I hit some snags in my setup last week and didn't make it as far as I had predicted.
<tyhicks`> I'm confident that I can finish that up this week and I'll also be working with jdstrand on UCT to understand the triaging role.
<tyhicks`> jdstrand: That is it for me.
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. The highlighted packages for this week are:
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/teamspeak-server.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/condor.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/zonecheck.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/monotone.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/midori.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<micahg> people can ignore midori on that list
<sbeattie> well, another great thing people could work on is going back through and confirming that older open CVEs have or have not been fixed in newer releases.
<jdstrand> yes, that is always helpful
<jdstrand> [ACTION] jdstrand to update highlighted packages to also mention UCT in general
<meetingology> ACTION: jdstrand to update highlighted packages to also mention UCT in general
<jdstrand> ok, thanks guys!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 19 17:25:48 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-19-17.07.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<rcunningham> I am planning on participating in a Community Council meeting soon.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-20
<sabdfl> hello all
<dholbach> hello
<dholbach> ok, I pinged everyone
<dholbach> it seems our agenda page is empty
<popey> o/
<dholbach> I just have 2 quick updates: 1) regarding the membership process, I'm in touch with all the RMBs about setting clearer expectations and updating our documentation and hope that will make things easier in the future and 2) CC nomination period started, Liz and I agreed to put out a blog post each to remind people to nominate
<dholbach> are there any other open threads right now?
<sabdfl> all clear here
<popey> newp
<popey> well, actually
<popey> i need to write a call for help for -users list
<popey> I'm stepping down from moderating that once we have replacement / supplemental mods
<popey> will run it past dholbach first :D
<dholbach> sure, let me know if I can help
<dholbach> is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MailingLists good enough?
<dholbach> in terms of letting moderators know what to do?
<sabdfl> aiee, we should just shut that baby down
<sabdfl> moderation is emotionally exhausting
<sabdfl> but, if there are volunteers, i'll not press the point
<dholbach> it'll be interesting to know how many subscribers it has and how many people actually and successfully find help there
<popey> i can get that
<popey> its ~4.8K subscribers iirc
<popey> 4939 in fact
<dholbach> to see if we are actually trying to improve a valuable service
<popey> There certainly are people getting help on the list
<ogra_> yeah
<popey> and there is a 'community' of sorts on there
<popey> a set of regulars who frequently offer help
<ogra_> and people watching the actual tone etc
<popey> yeah
<ogra_> but thats not enough
<ogra_> as time told us :)
<popey> although as sabdfl pointed out elsewhere it's hard to moderate
<ogra_> yeah, for sure
<popey> because once someone sends a snotty mail it's already been seen by 4.9K people
<popey> forums and askubuntu etc are far easier to moderate than this
<dholbach> maybe popey, ogra_ and I should try to get together nominees together and see if we can improve the guidelines and see this as the final try to make the list useful again(?)
<ogra_> well, generally you only need it for the karl L.'s in the world
<ogra_> dholbach, moderation on that list should essentially only be used as last resort ... we had some trolls in the past that really made life hard
<popey> I completely understand the argument that it should be shutdown
<ogra_> general operations are fine and covered by the community ... the prob with moderation here is that you actually need to read the list
<popey> but there's no way on earth I am proposing that! :D
 * dholbach hugs popey
<nigelb> popey: hehe
<dholbach> personally, I think it's important to show that tone is important to us and if users of the list don't take that seriously, we act - I hope that that will get misguided users back on track
<dholbach> popey, ogra_: shall we have a look at the call for help mail and mailinglist wiki page together for the next cc meeting?
<ogra_> that should be covered by the community though
<ogra_> (if the community is healthy that works just fine)
<popey> dholbach: I'll have left the cc by then
<dholbach> ok, then before :)
<popey> I'd like to do it ASAP
<ogra_> moderators should really only be there if you actualy cant do anything else but blocking aperson
<popey> i did ponder maybe a monthly mail
<popey> like people used to do on usenet
<popey> remind people of the rules etc
<popey> because we do get new subscribers, who maybe haven't seen the links everyone else knows
<dholbach> it's worth a try
<ogra_> can we do that with a fake address or so ?
<ogra_> i.e. something that sounds official and doesnt bind it to a person
<ogra_> listbot@ubuntu.com or so :)
<ogra_> would prevent some potential discussion
<dholbach> you mean for the monthly remind?
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> so the moderator doesnt get blamed for playing list police etc
<dholbach> if it's just flaming, I personally would just ignore it - it's not worth replying to it
<popey> yeah, you and I might not reply
<ogra_> well, such a post will definitely cause a thread ...
<popey> but all it takes is 0.1% of subscribers to respond to make it annoying
<ogra_> its a question if we can keep it small or not ;)
<ogra_> and not having a human attached to it will lower the risk of getting a big thread
<ogra_> (ubuntu-users is a special universe ... )
<popey> ok, so two documents need drafting, one to request mods, one a monthly reminder of the 'house rules / etiquette'?
<popey> I'll draft those and ping ogra_ & dholbach for input.
<dholbach> then we should make it unspecial again - personally I feel that users who object to a calm and reasonable tone should have no business on that list :)
<dholbach> thanks popey
<popey> I need to disappear for a bit, anything else I'm needed for?
<dholbach> no, I guess not - any other business?
 * AlanBell has a quick question for sabdfl 
<ogra_> dholbach, its not the first set of users answering thaqt cause the issues
<AlanBell> spd-say "on-eer-ric osselot" <- does that sound right?
<ogra_> its usually the subsequent discussion escalation that causes them
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> Any other business? :)
<dholbach> if not, I think we can adjourn
<dholbach> oops :)
<dholbach> AlanBell, maybe take it to email? :)
<ogra_> AlanBell, i think its: "one eye rick"
<dholbach> "on-eer-ric" is how I pronounce it too
<AlanBell> this is for bug 852583
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 852583 in gnome-orca (Ubuntu) "Orca does not pronounce "Oneiric Ocelot" very well" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852583
 * ogra_ likes to imagine rickspencer3 in johnny depp outfit :)
<nigelb> Heh. Now that's what I'll think of when I say oneiric
<dholbach> ok, I think we can adjourn now - thanks everyone :)
<czajkowski> ogra_: you're not a well lad at all are you
<ogra_> aint i ?
<sabdfl> hi, sorry
<popey> np
<sabdfl> i think i dropped off at 12:23
<sabdfl> popey, two docs
<popey> ya
<sabdfl> i'm happy to take the shutdown bullets on -users
<sabdfl> even if it's of the 'last chance, fred's agreed to moderate, if (s)he gives up, we shut down the list'
<popey> that sounds preferable
<popey> rather than shutdown now
<shattered> server team is supposed to meet now, right?
<jrgifford> "/alias hidelevels.set set activity_hide_level parts joins quits nicks modes"
<jrgifford> Whoops. :P
<macer1> Hello. I am looking at ubuntu fridge calendar. But what timezone are that that hours?
<charlie-tca> UTC
<macer1> does google converted it for me automaticly?
<charlie-tca> depends on your settings for google
<charlie-tca> macer1: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ can convert any time to any other time zone
<Ursinha> hmm. hello?
<smoser> o/
<smb> \o
 * Ursinha pokes Daviey 
<adam_g> \o
<Daviey> hello!
 * hallyn still waiting for laptop to boot.  damned vgscan race
<Daviey> smoser: are you chairing?
<smoser> i figured it might be about my turn to do that
<smoser> i suppose i can
<Daviey> smoser: well it is your pop queue turn :)
<smoser> k
<smoser> here we go
 * Daviey notes that he and rbasak are in a call, so might not be fully here.
<smoser> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 20 16:04:07 2011 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<SpamapS> smoser: you forgot to name it. ;)
<smoser> how?
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 16:04:56 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-20-16.04.moin.txt
<SpamapS> smoser: it takes an argument
<smoser> whats our meeting?
<SpamapS> Ubuntu Server Team Meeting
<smoser> #startmeeting Ubuntu Server Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 20 16:05:27 2011 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<SpamapS> lol
<smoser> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> no action points.
<smoser> so thats a free pass onto....
<smoser> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Oneiric Development
<Daviey> As you all must know by now we are in Beta2 freeze.
<Daviey> With it shipping this Thursday.
<smoser> Yes, only the great ones are allowed to upload, like zul.
<Daviey> This is a great chance to get testing of the iso in as many ways possible.
<Daviey> Also, we need to consolidate bugs that need fixing
<Daviey> I notice smoser has been busy raising and fixing some nova issues, do you have any news on them landing?
<Daviey> smoser: No, everyone can still upload.. just main fixes need to be b2 crticial.
<smoser> i landed more changes in nova milestone branch in the past 4 days than i'd care to admit to
<Daviey> i noticed.
<Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html <- any bugs that need to be decalred there?
<smoser> but, i'm actually pretty excited about nova's state.
 * AlanBell goes to fix a bug in the topic handling code to prevent Meeting Meetings
<zul> they should be in the archive today hopefully
<Daviey> smoser: Action AlanBell to that pls :)
<SpamapS> Daviey: I'm pretty convinced that bug 653405 is "fixed" .. but we need somebody to confirm that.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653405 in rabbitmq-server (Ubuntu Oneiric) "rabbitmq-server fails to start if hostname is unresolvable or has changed since first starting" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653405
<Daviey> I could also do with some help with things that need release noting.
<Daviey> So if you have anything, please raise it :)
<Daviey> hmm
<Daviey> someone was looking at that earlier this week
<Daviey> was it lynxman ?
<smoser> Daviey, ...
<smoser> bug 854614 should be on our release list
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854614 in nova (Ubuntu) "metadata service local-hostname is not fqdn" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854614
<SpamapS> Daviey: also bug 831628 is fixed but sitting in the b2 freeze queue so will land after b2 I think.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831628 in squid (Ubuntu) "squid upstart script doesn't check for filesystems" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831628
<smoser> this is something that JuJu views as being important.
<Daviey> smoser: 854614 i tagged just before this meeting, thanks
<lynxman> Daviey: wasn't me, we just need to confirm that the new version of Erlang and rabbitmq 2.5.0 works as intended
<smoser> yeah.
<SpamapS> Also I think we can stop tracking bug 829063 unless my concerns were addressed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829063 in glance (Ubuntu) "should use SSL by default" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829063
<Daviey> SpamapS: Considering how bad squid has been on upgrades, is this one worth landing for b2?
<Daviey> As in, get it in early?
<macer1> Hello, is this ubuntu server team meeting?
<zul> SpamapS: the glance ssl stuff is still being reviewed upstream
<smoser> macer1, it is.
<smoser> welcome
<SpamapS> Daviey: all the problems on upgrade were caused by the old upstart scripts.. hasn't been a problem since the change to use -N and drop 'expect fork' from what I can tell.
<SpamapS> Daviey: but, if squid is not on the CD.. then yeah why not land it now?
<Daviey> SpamapS: hmm, i thought we had to double tap an SRU for that fix?
<Daviey> SpamapS: ok, will look the package over after the meeting
<Daviey> Triage, Triage, Triage - not just step 1 :)
<Daviey> smoser: move on?
<smoser> yep
<smoser> the other thing is ...
<smoser> we are testing ISOs very soon.
<smoser> Daviey, are you aware of anything that would prevenet testing of $MEDIA ?
<smoser> utlemming would likely be interested as i believe he expects to start testing cloud-images today
<Daviey> smoser: the candidate posted will amost certainly not be final
<smoser> gold
<adam_g> we should probably free up the QA test cluster from our openstack testing?
<Daviey> So testing is still useful, don't hold out.
<smoser> moving on then.
<smoser> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Daviey> adam_g: The test cluster could really do with streching it to the limits.
<smoser> The Openstack Developer Summit [http://summit.openstack.org] is in 2 weeks
<Daviey> wow, really only two weeks away
<Daviey> happy days.
<smoser> UDS is actually not far off, especially if you're expecting to get flights and travel accomodations
<zul> hopefully i can make it ;)
 * smoser writes a memo to self to get flights
<smoser> anything else to note ?
<adam_g> puppetconf is this week
<Daviey> I'll be at the London release party 13th October
<rbasak> It seems that I'll be there too!
<adam_g> lynxman and i will likely be giving lightning talk on juju + ubuntu server
<Daviey> rbasak: nonoes.
<zul> release party = booze up
<robbiew> adam_g: sweet
<SpamapS> Who all will be at the Openstack Dev summit btw?
 * SpamapS raises hand
 * adam_g <-
 * zul me
 * smoser raises hand
 * SpamapS raises ttx's hand
<zul> <-- already submitted a proposal
<smoser> also i suspect that ttx and soren to will be there. kirkland also.
<smoser> ok. enough chitchat. moving on.
 * kirkland waves a thumbs up
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<smoser> hggdh, ^
<Daviey> o/
<SpamapS> I have a question about getting SRU verification help on the occasional important bug..
<SpamapS> mdeslaur was asking if we could finish the squid SRU bug 750371 so he didn't have to supersede it and I didn't know how to get it onto our QA team's radar
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 750371 in squid (Ubuntu Maverick) "squid causing /var to stay busy during shutdown" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750371
<SpamapS> hggdh: ideas?
<robbiew> :/
<smoser> ok. then.
<smoser> [ACTION] hggdh and SpamapS to discuss SRU verification work for bug 750371 at next meeting or before
<meetingology> ACTION: hggdh and SpamapS to discuss SRU verification work for bug 750371 at next meeting or before
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 750371 in squid (Ubuntu Maverick) "squid causing /var to stay busy during shutdown" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750371
<smoser> anyone else have anything here ?
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Since there was Plumbers two weeks ago and /me on holiday last week there is not much new. Still not completely happy with Xen HVM and filed bug 854829 just now. Also trying to see whether bug 854050 is somehow reproducable. And if it is whether an updated kernel would help. People seem to have a habbit of using the ami of an release without updating.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854829 in xen (Ubuntu) "[Oneiric] Xen HVM: transmit timeouts on emulated 8139cp device" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854829
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854050 in linux (Ubuntu) "BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.38/mm/swapfile.c:255" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854050
<smoser> smb, yeah, sorry to have dumped that swap bug on you.
<smoser> and the slew of mis-data that is the aws forums
<Daviey> bug 790712
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 790712 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "20110531 i386 server ISO: order 5 allocation failure during install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790712
<smb> smoser, no worries, just one of those which seem to happen "sometimes"
<smoser> one happy event on that, though, the original reporter of that hit a hang
<smoser> and called Amazon on support
<Daviey> bug 818177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu) "HP DL380G5 root disk mounted read-only on boot and boot fails" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<smoser> they told him "hardware failure"
<smoser> Daviey, smoser there are udev issues in the ramdisk.
<smoser> this is unfortunately nothing new.
<Daviey> ugh
<smoser> at least my personal feeling is that several of the "rarely does not boot" bugs are a result of udev not behaving correctly.
<Daviey> smb: What server related kernel things do you think are viable to land before kernel freeze?
<Daviey> lol
<SpamapS> smoser: seems to be most often triggered by very high end storage
<Daviey> So yes, what else do you think you can land as of 5 days ago? :)
<smb> Daviey, Not sure that I got anything that is close pending atm
<smoser> smb, i've just been asked for bug 761809. i would like to have that landed for oneiric.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 761809 in linux (Ubuntu) "Quota modules are missing from the package" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761809
<smb> smoser, Is that the virtual package?
<smoser> yes.
<adam_g> SpamapS: negative. i hit bug #818177 anytime LVM xists ontop of my low end commodity  stuff
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu) "HP DL380G5 root disk mounted read-only on boot and boot fails" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<Daviey> yes
<smb> smoser, apw has been working on having an extra package with all the other stuff. Would that be enough?
<Daviey> smb: ogasawara added the aufs kernel module to the virtual package recently, seems we need a repeat
<smoser> adam_g, SpamapS well some less common ratio of processor:disk-speed:disk-turn-on speed
<Daviey> \o/
<Daviey> we didn't know that
<ogasawara> Daviey, smb: that was prior to the extras virtual package existing
<smoser> smb, well that would in fact be good. but he told me to go jump in a lake once before.
<smoser> when i asked for that.
<smoser> would that land in oneiric ? smb?
<smoser> oh. ogasawara is it *in* oneiric ?
<smb> ogasawara, I think its checkid in now, right?
 * smoser gets a clue
<smb> checked-in*
<apw> it is fix committed but not uploaded yes
<ogasawara> smb: yep, committed.  not uploaded.
<smoser> apw, that rocks.
<SpamapS> So sounds like we need to do some intense race hunting in the initrd
<smoser> since i have the kernel team here
<ogasawara> smb: we have a 1 week window between beta-2 and final freeze that I'm going to plan one final kernel upload (pending approval from the release team)
<smoser> do you think that that bug above would be acceptable for a lucid SRU ?
<smb> Sounds a bit with the hint about a combination of lvm and slow disk...
<ogasawara> smb: so if we need to add anything, best to do it now.
<smoser> i'm asked by gondai in ubuntu-server.  ie, could we sru inclusion of -virtual modules for quota
<smb> smoser, Which of the above being Lucid?
<smoser> bug
<smb> ogasawara, I understand if we have the extra package there is things ok
<smoser> bug 761809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 761809 in linux (Ubuntu) "Quota modules are missing from the package" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761809
<smoser> is what i was talking about.
<smb> Oh so those are missing in lucid
<smb> Probably there an inclusion of the modules is simpler
<smoser> right.
<smoser> i absolutely agree, but we could get that done ?
<smb> yes
<smoser> apw, you recently marked the task for "investigate missing modules" as DONE
<smoser> did you add/remove anythign ?
<apw> smoser, i don't recognise that WI title ...
<smoser> looking
<smoser> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours
<smoser> [apw] Investigate pulling 'excluded' modules for -virtual into a new binary package/udebs: DONE
<smb> Think that was the one assigned to me and more of a for oneirc thing
<smb> which we stopped when having the extras for that
<apw> smoser, yes that is the one which triggered the -extras pacage
<smoser> so is -extras *everything* such that -virtual + -virtual-extras == -server ?
<apw> smoser, -virtual != -server, but other than that yes
<smb> smoser, There still is a difference in what is compiled in
<smb> (at least)
<smoser> yeah. ok.
<apw> the main difference is things like xeny-ness, otherwise we'd tell you to install -server
<smoser> so i would consider all future bugs of "give me this module in -virtual" much lower priority
<smoser> but still sometimes valid
<smoser> ie, the aufs module and such, should be in -virtual and not require the additional 100MB of stuff
<smoser> anyway
<apw> smoser, you'll have to try even harder to convince us to let them in, we'll likely want to take things out to slim things down
<smoser> i think we've beaten this.
<smoser> apw, right.
<smoser> i like it
<smoser> thank you.
<smoser> that brings us to
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<smoser> NCommander, around ?
<smoser> i believe that utlemming has made some recent progress around arm
<smoser> and maybe even zul
<smoser> just if you wanted to brag a bit
<Daviey> and rbasak
<zul> smoser: im good
<smoser> i'll brag for utlemming
<smoser> because i think it is seriously cool
<Daviey> NCommander: When you read this, please can you explain why you are unable to attend this slot?
<smoser> you can now download our cloud-images from http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com and they will "just work" under qemu arm
<jamespage> w00t
<smoser> so if you want to just see an arm thing run, you can.
<Ursinha> that's cool
<smoser> yes.
<rbasak> great!
<smoser> ok.
<smoser> moving on
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<Daviey> zul: How is openstack on arm looking?
<zul> Daviey: uh...good
<Daviey> How is our fine community looking?
<Daviey> (Please don't all answer at once)
 * zul watches tumbleweeds go one by
<utlemming> smoser: the arm qemu images are actually broken due to a kernel bug
<smoser> boooo
<Daviey> :(
<utlemming> smoser: the fix has been committed, but the latest images don't have the kernel fix
<apw> utlemming, which bug ... so i can add it to the 'why we want to upload' list, and for which branch
<utlemming> sure...give me a minute to look it up
<utlemming> a working qemu image can be fetched from http://people.canonical.com/~ben/images/arm.img.gz for those who want to play with one that is about a week old.
<utlemming> Bug #852225
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 852225 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ARM kernel writing 32bits to 16 bit register" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852225
<rbasak> That's a great bug title :)
<smb> Think that one went into master
<Daviey> Oneiric SRU?
<smb> Daviey, Close to release. You have to really argue now
<Daviey> smb: nah
<smoser> "doesn't boot"
<apw> ogasawara, ^^ that lends weight to your upload argument
<ogasawara> apw: indeed.  /me makes a note.
<utlemming> it only affects qemu though
<Daviey> The arm cloud images are not part of the offical release this cycle, unless i am mistaken.
<Daviey> If they get fixed post release as an SRU, seems reasonable
<smb> Daviey, Mainly its a switch to not just dump stuff in but to already switch over to a more stable more with reviewing things
<apw> but they are important
<smoser> well, we will let ogasawara argue that appropriately. it seems we have good representation, and i trust the participants.
<smoser> lets move on
<Daviey> +1
<Daviey> can we go home?
<smoser> i am winning for longest meeting in quite some time.
<smoser> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<zul> i like turnips
<SpamapS> +1
<Ursinha> lol
<jamespage> I'm a swede man myself
<AlanBell> Daviey: fix committed
<SpamapS> I was reading the launchpad-dev mailing list yesterday, and I saw that they have a very interesting triage process... they do not use Medium as a priority.
<Daviey> Thanks for your input Serge
<Ursinha> SpamapS, yes, that discussion is indeed really interesting
<smoser> SpamapS, a link would be helpful
<SpamapS> Critical means it has to be worked on now. High means it has to be worked on Next. Everything else is Low
<Daviey> We are /close/ to that.
<Daviey> Medium is almost the 'next' High stuff.
<Ursinha> they're discussing possibly using high and medium as they almost don't do that today
<SpamapS> I'd give you a link but the archive seems 2 days behind.
<Ursinha> Daviey, that's how I see it too.
<smoser> moving on then.
<rbasak> I got the impression that Low means probably will never be worked on unless someone has a specific interest, and Medium is the general work queue
<rbasak> (from being new to the process on the server team, not launchpad-dev)
<smoser> i would agree with rbasak .
<smoser> i really dont think its all that important
<Daviey> rbasak: yeah.
<Daviey> Crticial means, panic - all hands on deck.
<SpamapS> Anyway, our Medium queue just for triage is massive.. and I feel like we should look at being honest that we may not ever get to it, so its a Low issue in our *work* priority.
<Daviey> smoser: you don't think the importance is importiant?
<SpamapS> Daviey: he gives it a Low priority is all
<smoser> i would give imprtance a 'low' importance
<Daviey> Anyway, you don't have to use the full hour for the meeting btw.
<smoser> i'm not kidding.
<smoser> we need some way to flag stuff that really matters.
<smoser> currently that is either 'critical' or getting it onto Daviey's list
<rbasak> smoser: as long as importance gets set, so critical stuff is separated out quick
<SpamapS> smoser: High is just that.
<Daviey> end meeting?
<smoser> SpamapS, so what are we discussing ?
<smoser> i work on bugs that are quite reasonably 'Low' before i work on ones that are 'High' at times.
<SpamapS> pushing most things we'd normally say are "Medium" down to Low and possibly reviewing the queue more often to put them in Won't Fix status.
<smoser> the key point above was that if someone thinks it needs fixing and works on it it will get fixed.
<smoser> i'll agree with "wont fix"
<smoser> but daviey wants to go home
<smoser> so i'm not giving any more fuel to the fire
<smoser> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<smoser> Tuesday 2011-09-27 at 16:00 UTC
<smoser> SpamapS, Ursinha i do apologize for not giving you as much time as you wanted.
<smoser> but i really do think that everyone wants to go
<Ursinha> that's ok
<smoser> and i think we have another meeting scheduled next week, with another open discussion section next week.
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 16:57:38 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-20-16.05.moin.txt
<apw> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<sforshee> o/
<sconklin> o/
<smb> o/
<tgardner> dudes
<ppisati> \o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 20 17:00:02 2011 UTC.  The chair is bjf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 42 linux kernel bugs (up 22)
<ogasawara> ==== Ubuntu ubuntu-11.10-beta-2 bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara> ==== <series>-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 15 natty linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 3 maverick linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 7 lucid linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Incoming Bugs ===
<ogasawara>  * 221 oneiric bugs (up 30)
<ogasawara>  * 1618 natty bugs (up 22)
<ogasawara>  * 1110 maverick bugs (up 23)
<ogasawara>  * 1010 lucid bugs (up 51)
<ogasawara>  * 46 hardy bugs (up 14)
<ogasawara> === Regressions ===
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 17 natty bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 40 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 79 lucid bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 7 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 433 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 239 maverick bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara>  * 213 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 4 natty bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 0 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 1 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Milstone Targeted Work Items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milstone Targeted Work Items
<bjf> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/milestones.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || desktop-o-xorg-stakeholders-request || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-config-review        || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || Sarvatt   || desktop-o-xorg-tools-and-processes  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the table above, please review your Beta 2 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We are currently in Kernel Freeze as well as Beta-2 Freeze.  Only high/critical issues which are deemed necessary for the release will warrant an upload at this time.  Because there is a week between Beta-2 and Final Freeze, I am going to try and upload one more kernel early next week (pending approval from the release team).  I would like to remind everyone that because we are in Kernel Freeze, all patches are subject to
<ogasawara> our SRU policy in order to be applied.
<ogasawara> Some important upcoming dates to keep in mind are as follows:
<ogasawara>  * Sept 22 - Beta 2 (2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Sept 29 - Final Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  *  Oct  6 - Release Candidate (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara>  *  Oct 13 - Final Release (~3 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> === CVE Metrics ===
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
<apw>  
<apw> || Package                                  || Open      ||
<apw> ||                                          ||           ||
<apw> || linux Hardy                              ||    6 (-9) ||
<apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    3 (-4) ||
<apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    3 (-9) ||
<apw> || linux Natty                              ||    3 (-8) ||
<apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    2 (-3) ||
<apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    3 (-4) ||
<apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    3 (-9) ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    3 (-4) ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    3 (-4) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    3 (-9) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    3 (-9) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    2 (-4) ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    3 (-9) ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    3 (-8) ||
<apw>  
<apw> Good progress this week with nine independant CVEs triaged, fixed, and applied.  Of the
<apw> remaining CVEs three affect all releases, two do not yet have fixes upstream.
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||== Status of kernels ==
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || This is kernel prep week, and new kernels have been prepared for both
<sconklin> || Hardy and Maverick.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || An i915 regression was discovered last Friday in the released Natty
<sconklin> || kernel. Investigation continues to determine whether the patch should be
<sconklin> || reverted or whether there is a fix to be applied. This does not affect
<sconklin> || the Natty kernel currently in testing, but may hold preperation of the
<sconklin> || next Natty kernel until it is resolved. I expect a resolution by the
<sconklin> || end of this week.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || SRU kernel status:
<sconklin> || * [[http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html|Detailed Information Here]]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Kernel status for each series is as follows:
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Hardy ===
<sconklin> || * [[http://launchpad.net/bugs/853945|Hardy Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Built in PPA, awaiting copy to -proposed
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 853945 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.24-29.94 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Lucid ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/849228|Lucid Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * In Testing phase, awaiting QA and Certification testing
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 849228 in Kernel SRU Workflow "linux: 2.6.32-34.77 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<sconklin> ||=== Maverick ===
<sconklin> || * [[http://launchpad.net/bugs/854092|Maverick Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Built in PPA, awaiting copy to -proposed
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 854092 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.35-30.60 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> ||=== Natty ===
<sconklin> || * [[http://launchpad.net/bugs/848246|Natty Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * In Testing Phase, awaiting Certification testing
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Current Kernel versions are available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 848246 in Kernel SRU Workflow "linux: 2.6.38-11.50 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<akgraner> o/
<bjf> akgraner, go!
<akgraner> Hi all!  I was originally working with jjohanson on this but after speaking with him decided to come to you all dierectly.  I've worked out an arrangement with informIT to include a 6 to 7 article series on the Ubuntu Kernel.  I'll be getting in touch with you all over then next 7 to 10 days for interviews and reviews.  I just wanted you all to know that and be expecting contact from me.  I need your help to get your message out about t
<akgraner> he Ubuntu Kernel.
<akgraner> Thanks in advance and if you have questions or comments before I contact you just email me at akgraner ubuntu com.
<akgraner> ..
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 17:06:27 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-20-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks bjf
<sconklin> thanks
<kamal> akgraner: hi Amber
<pgraner> thanks bjg
<akgraner> kamal, hi!
<pgraner> s/bjg/bjf/
<kamal> akgraner: see you in Orlando?
<akgraner> that's was the fastest meeting I've ever attended
<akgraner> kamal, yeppers
<macer1> What the...?
<macer1> 7 minutes meeting?
<apw> we're very efficient in the kernel-team
<akgraner> bjf, et al - awesome!
<bjf> macer1, yes, sorry it dragged out
<apw> :))
<ogasawara> heh
<Ursinha> lol
<kamal> yeah, 7 minutes is nowhere near a record-breaker.
<pgraner> skaet should learn from this for the ubuntu release meeting
<apw> though if flood wasn't an issue we'd get it down even further
<kamal> akgraner: very good -- see ya in FL.  :-)
<macer1> what will happen if I will write #startmeeting ?
<cking> kernel team meeting - blink and you miss it
<lynxman> that was one of the fastest meetings I've seen
<lynxman> akgraner: oh hai o/
<macer1> meetingology: hello,bot
<meetingology> macer1: Error: "hello,bot" is not a valid command.
<czajkowski> popey: huats leogg itnet7
<huats> hello czajkowski
<itnet7> o/
<itnet7> hey there!
<popey> o/
<czajkowski> so no agenda
<czajkowski> any thoughts ?
<itnet7> Not really sure what we could/should discuss (unfortunately I am kind of swamped at work which seems to be par lately)
<paultag> me too .and on remote via phone
<popey> I have nothing to bring up
<czajkowski> ok
<popey> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 20 20:08:45 2011 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> can we all vote on any outstanding tickets
<popey> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 20:08:46 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-20-20.08.moin.txt
<popey> :D
<paultag> good meeting :)
<czajkowski> can we all please update the last etherpad doc which will be going ont the LD
<czajkowski> for how to set up a team please
<paultag> i was +1 last i read it
<popey> will do
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> may need some padding out
<paultag> kk i need bat. email me if anyone drops in
<huats> I agreed too if I remember correctly
<macer1> #startmeeting What codename do you want for 12.04 LTS?
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 20 20:17:50 2011 UTC.  The chair is macer1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | What codename do you want for 12.04 LTS? Meeting | Current topic:
<macer1> #vote Do you want Ubuntu 12.04 LTS Codename to be "Proud Puma"?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Do you want Ubuntu 12.04 LTS Codename to be "Proud Puma"?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<macer1> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from macer1
<ashams> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ashams
<macer1> Please vote :D
<czajkowski> macer1: what are you doing
<macer1> a small meeting
<macer1> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Do you want Ubuntu 12.04 LTS Codename to be "Proud Puma"?
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<macer1> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 20:24:00 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-20-20.17.moin.txt
<macer1> that was nice meeting :D
<hbs> z
<hbs> how do i join a locatio specific chat?
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-21
<cjwatson> well, mumble has decided it hates me, but I guess it's meeting time anyway
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 21 15:07:02 2011 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * stgraber waves
<slangasek> indeed it is!
 * slangasek waves
<mvo> hi
<barry> howdy
<ev> hi
<slangasek> bdmurray and jhunt are off today; one to a conference, one on holiday
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jhunt mvo ev bdmurray slangasek)
<slangasek> barry jhunt mvo slangasek ev stgraber bdmurray cjwatson doko
<barry> somehow, i knew i'd win today! :)
<barry> much work done on ppa:pythoneers/lts to provide python 2.7 (and other lp dependencies) in a ppa.  this is up and running with hand-off to the launchpad folks (emailed launchpad-dev).  bug 847514.  debian bug 622279 (py27 blockers).  extensive c api subvertpy code review (was a blocker).  python bug 13021 (reference leak).  gtimelog hacking (merge pitti branch, keypress eating diagnostics, etc.).  developer experience cop.  todo: finish
<barry> up gtimelog 0.7, release and upload.  continue with oneiric ftbfs and debian py27 blockers.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 847514 in python-debian (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Convert Xubuntu CD to dh_python2" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/847514
<ubottu> Debian bug 622279 in release.debian.org "transition: python-defaults (switching default: 2.6 -> 2.7)" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/622279
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 13021 in Ubuntu "Allow console logins in a more intuitive way?" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13021
<mvo> jhunt is on vac, right? so its my turn
<slangasek> mvo: yep
<mvo> executive summary: lots of bugfixing work
<mvo> software-center: debug/fix multiarch native/foreign hidding (#830508), discuss/prototype unity friendly review stats (lp:~mvo/software-center/review-stats-as-dbm-for-unity-with-best-regards), work with davmor2 on license-key tesitng, debug/fix crash on xubuntu (#854087), debug/fix software-center a-x-i db rebuild bug (#798632), fix db reopen bug when new stuff is added to the database (like via s-c-agent), do not log sensitive oauth token st
<mvo> uff to the console, do add offer NoDisplay=true as add-to-launcher (#844837), fix UI issue when fetching for more reviews (#848480), fix installed view show/hide nonapps, debug/workaround silly gtk3 width-for-height management bug with gtk.Alignment, retire the gtk2 code into lp:~mvo/software-center/retire-gtk2, branch merges
<mvo> apt: debug/fix broken private-ppa adding on 401 on https, debug/fix broken Translations-$lang fetching fallback, cherry pick fixes from the debian-sid branch
<mvo> command-not-found: review/merge https://code.launchpad.net/~zkrynicki/command-not-found/fix-839609/+merge/75440
<mvo> beta2: upgrade testing, ran head-first into cups hang #854490 and add some debug info
<mvo> debug/fix gnome-codec-install multiarch issue (#851481)
<mvo> aptdaemon: cherry-pick/review/upload new bzr snapshot to fix two high profile crashers (#812023, #846044)
<mvo> misc: fixes in unattended-upgrades, apt-ddtp, apt-clone, fix some FTBFS
<mvo> EOF
<slangasek> mvo: did you see the recent report that trying to install a foreign-arch deb via s-c doesn't work?
<slangasek> bug #854839
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854839 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Skype i386 fails to install on Oneiric 64bit" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854839
<mvo> slangasek: meh, let me look
<mvo> slangasek: aha, I think this is actually a bug in python-apts debfile handling
<mvo> that should be trivial (famous last words ;)
<mvo> its a downloaded deb
<slangasek> yep
<slangasek> are upgrade tests working better now with the cups change?
<mvo> yes, one success around lunchtime so far
<mvo> then I got sidetracked by unity and the need to share some review data with them
<slangasek> great (the success, not the sidetracking) :)
<mvo> but I will run the next one now
<slangasek> cool
<slangasek> my go
<mvo> honestly I think this task should be taken over by QA officially, jibel is doing a better job then me anyway
<slangasek> sure, it does fit better in QA... are the two of you duplicating effort right now?
<mvo> I would not call it duplication, but we do both test upgrades
 * slangasek nods
<mvo> probably using slightly different scenarios etc
<slangasek> enabled flicker-free boot for lightdm (bug #849954); if you're still seeing boot-time flickering, please file bugs; found a race condition in shutdown when more than one dm is installed (like lightdm + gdm) that causes the spinning-dots-on-text issue, fixes staged for post-beta, but I also just saw the bug again here with the fixed packages so there's another race I haven't found; traipsing through plymouth code to try to find the bug 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 849954 in plymouth (Ubuntu Oneiric) "FFe: enable flicker-free boot with lightdm" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849954
<slangasek> ... loop that's still causing people to see segfaults, can't spot the bug and can't reproduce it, so if anybody else can and wants to be remote hands, let me know
<mvo> flicker free++
<stgraber> slangasek: I still saw flickering at boot time when plymouth started but I'm on dual-head so it's very likely the problem
<barry> slangasek: boot-time flickering != login-time flickering, right?
<slangasek> updates done for ca-certificates to fix a regression in openssl's ability to verify certificates (bug #854927), then spent yesterday scrambling to fix ca-certificates-java when this provoked deletion of libnss3 on the systems of users having -java installed (bug #855171, bug #855246)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854927 in openssl (Ubuntu Oneiric) "c_rehash creating bogus links to ca-certificates.crt" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854927
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 855171 in ca-certificates-java (Ubuntu) "libnss3.so went missing after upgrade" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855171
<stgraber> slangasek: grub only starts on my laptop, then plymouth starts on both displays, the transition between the two causes a black screen on my laptop's monitor
<slangasek> done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 855246 in ca-certificates-java (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ca-certificates 20110502+nmu1ubuntu3 (and ca-certificates-java 20110912ubuntu2): Exception in thread "main" java.security.ProviderException: Could not initialize NSS" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855246
<slangasek> stgraber: right, single->dual head might always give a flicker... but can you test with the external monitor disconnected?
<stgraber> slangasek: yep, will test that
<slangasek> fwiw, *I'm* still getting a flicker there... dunno what it is
<ev> - Fixed bug 838068 (APs going away when trying to query their properties)
<ev> - Fixed the installer panel and ported to GTK3
<ev> - Fixed setting the desktop wallpaper by writing a small C helper.
<ev> - ISO and Wubi testing
<ev> - Fixed bug 852054 (advanced partitioning link doesn't work)
<ev> - Fixed bug 837406 (installer window sizing issue)
<ev> - Fixed bug 848938 (online/offline handling in ubiquity)
<ev> - Expenses for Plumbers and travel for UDS.
<ev> - Fixed ubiquity tests and uploaded a new version.
<ev> - Further discussion with Gema (QA) on installer bugs.
<ev> - Fixed a bug in lupin that prevented a grub configuration being generated for
<ev>   wubi disk images.
<ev> - Fixed biosdevname and libpci for Dell and OEM services.
<ev> - Taught Wubi and lupin to create swap space for disk image installs.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838068 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ubiquity crashed with DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "Get" with signature "ss" on interface "org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties" doesn't exist" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838068
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 852054 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "During installation process: Clicking "advanced partitioning tool" won't open partitioning tool" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852054
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837406 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "installer dialogue buttons fall off bottom of the screen on netbooks with small displays" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 848938 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) ""Download updates" unavailable after connecting to WiFi" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848938
<ev> did that get cuff off somewhere?
<ev> should end with (done)
<stgraber> ev: last line was "- Taught Wubi and lupin..."
<ev>  - Finally merged my Wubi test branch.
<ev>  - Fixed bug 848000 (Don't show the battery warning on desktops).
<ev> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 848000 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Shouldn't show "should be plugged in" when on a desktop" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848000
 * slangasek plugs a battery in to his desktop
<stgraber> - IPv6 testing
<stgraber>  - Switched from generating kvm instances to using LXC (so we can test on ARM)
<stgraber>  - Managed to get debian-installer running in a container
<stgraber>  - Implemented a basic test suite for netcfg
<stgraber>  - Now trying to figure out why one of the tests doesn't pass and will then have that code running daily
<stgraber>  - Next up is NM automated testing which should be a lot easier than netcfg
<stgraber> - Worked around bug 838809 by restoring pre-oneiric behaviour of not starting open-iscsi when root is on iscsi and filed bug 850960 for the actual problem
<stgraber> - Uploaded new friendly-recovery fixing quite a bunch of bugs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838809 in open-iscsi (Ubuntu Oneiric) "authenticated and unauthenicated iscsi clients fails to complete boot" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838809
<stgraber> - Quite a few more pre-beta freeze uploads (last minute seed change for Edubuntu and some bugfixes/translations update)
<stgraber> - Starting poking at the ISO tracker code, trying to port it to Drupal 7 and get LP authentication working (while waiting for IPv6 test results)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850960 in open-iscsi (Ubuntu) "iscsid tries to reconnect existing session at startup, failing to do so and hanging the system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850960
<stgraber> - TODO
<stgraber>  - Edubuntu ISO testing (haven't had a beta2 candidate yet, hopefully won't need much fixing)
<stgraber>  - Finish the automated IPv6 testing and push the code somewhere
<stgraber>  - Get WebLive up and running for Oneiric (both full sessions from edubuntu.org and single app export in software-center)
<stgraber>  - Still need to spend more time trying to get TPM working in a PPA
<stgraber> (done)
<slangasek> so no ISO tracker migration to django this cycle? :)
<stgraber> I think everyone agrees that we shouldn't mess too much with the tracker for an LTS :)
<slangasek> cjohnston:
<slangasek> oops
<stgraber> but if someone wants to rewrite it, we have quite a few nice specs that we worked on at the past 6 or so UDSes :)
<slangasek> ah, we've lost cjwatson
<slangasek> doko:
<ev> he just sent me a text
<ev> he's having ADSL problems
<slangasek> ev: doh - thanks
<doko> - ~110 uploads to fix ftbfs (still didn't catch cjwatson's karma ;)
<doko> - sponsored ~20 ftbfs uploads
<doko> - package removals for ftbfs
<doko> - arm test rebuild did finish
<doko> - binutils upload to fix regression with --as-needed/-flto and --fopenmp/-flto
<ev> he's not sure if he'll be back for the meeting, but he has an engineer booked for the morn'
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> doko: I saw skaet asking for more info about the binutils upload; did you two come to an agreement about getting this in?
<doko> slangasek, I did reply, but never got an answer
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> since Brian couldn't be here, he asked me to cover a few things with bugs
<slangasek> we have another new report up tracking stale bugs that are marked "in progress":
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/canonical-foundations-old-in-progress-bug-tasks.html
<slangasek> defined as a bug that's been in progress more than a month
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi there - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/canonical-foundations-old-in-progress-bug-tasks.html
<slangasek> cjwatson: you've just missed the lightning round; do you want to report now?
<slangasek> maybe not :)
<slangasek> so, in-progress bugs - I'd like us to take just a couple minutes to go through these quickly and see where they are
<cjwatson> hi
<cjwatson> sorry, was waiting for feedback in ... #ubuntu-release ;-)
<slangasek> and see if they should be unassigned or set back to 'triaged' instead
<cjwatson> some more FTBFS work
<cjwatson> grub2: fixed missing licence declaration that broke hwmatch (850202)
<cjwatson> curl/xmlrpc-c: helped out server team with adding udebs (831496)
<cjwatson> os-prober: belatedly merged Surbhi's btrfs work (764893)
<cjwatson> installer: translation updates; fixed some IPv6 bugs spotted by StÃ©phane; fixed failure to set up multiarch correctly (853738); fixed ubiquity test failures
<cjwatson> lsb: fixed amd64 symlink bug spotted by Till (638450)
<cjwatson> live-build: backported ext4 support for ARM team (803547)
<cjwatson> xdeb: fixing up to work properly on oneiric; fixing various bugs that have crept in; merges; made multiarch code only trigger if multiarch is configured appropriately; trying to fix dependency resolver
<cjwatson> ubuntu-archive-tools: sprucing up iso.qa posting support with the aim of adding auto-posting to cdimage
<cjwatson> looking at creating InRelease files to reduce archive skew problems - apparently some security concerns though
<cjwatson> switched to unity-2d; rather fewer desktop slowness problems now
<cjwatson> having intermittent ADSL router problems; engineer visit scheduled for tomorrow morning
<cjwatson> coming down with something; please only expect minimal supply of brainpower
<cjwatson> ..
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<slangasek> bug #341876 - ev, mpt assigned this to you and marked it in progress, is that accurate?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 341876 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[Feature Request] Setup WiFi" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/341876
<ev> slangasek: it's done, fixing :)
<slangasek> ok :)
<cjwatson> I've set the three I know about back to Triaged
<slangasek> bug #434173 - mvo?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434173 in update-manager (Ubuntu Karmic) "[karmic] Regression from 9.04 in getting fully translated Ubuntu installation" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434173
<cjwatson> which is regrettably probably more accurate
<slangasek> probably not in progress for karmic anymore, at least...
<mvo> slangasek: I need to re-read this one
<cjwatson> although bug 441941 is arguably generally done and should have individual failures filed as separate bugs, but it's a swamp of a bug ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441941 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "grub fails after running Windows" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441941
<slangasek> mvo: ok, take your time :)
<slangasek> and the last one then is for jhunt; will check in with him later
<slangasek> other bugs on bdmurray's radar:
<slangasek> bug #839584
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 839584 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "package ubuntu-desktop 1.242 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: dependency problems with unity-2d" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/839584
<mvo> slangasek: I think i need to embed a copy of the check-language-support script
 * mvo puts it on his todo
<slangasek> mvo: well, the immediate question is, is it really "in progress" or should we mark it as something more realistic like "triaged"
<mvo> bug #839584 is a bit mysterious, I suspect its a failure in the apt ordering code actually which is pretty nasty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 839584 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "package ubuntu-desktop 1.242 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: dependency problems with unity-2d" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/839584
<slangasek> mvo: the log in bug #839584 confuses me... it seems to be trying to configure ubuntu-desktop before installing the dependencies, which isn't supposed to happen
<slangasek> right
<mvo> exactly
<slangasek> should we triage that over to apt?
<mvo> we have in debian-experimental the result of SoC work in the ordering code that adds a extra verification step to ensure this does not happen
<mvo> but there is regression risk here, I would not want to merge this just now (even though the new code had a good bunch of runs through various upgrade scenarios)
<slangasek> right
<slangasek> let's not rip out the package manager's guts post-beta ;)
<mvo> exactly
<mvo> I reassign to apt
<slangasek> thanks
<mvo> I will also try to reprodue with apt-clone
<slangasek> next, bug #852128
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 852128 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Poor performance while "Calculating changes"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852128
<slangasek> mvo gets all the fun bugs
<mvo> meh
<slangasek> this one looks like it might be pretty easy to fix for oneiric, though...
<slangasek> anyone *other* than mvo interested in having a look at it?
<mvo> that is (again) a apt issue I think
<slangasek> but an apt bug that doesn't require fiddling with resolver code.  Not the highest priority bug either, but if someone wants to take a swing at it, feel free
<mvo> hm, or maybe not, I have look,
<slangasek> last one: bug #839662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 839662 in man-db (Ubuntu) "package man-db 2.6.0.2-2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/839662
<mvo> a non-apt bug, wooooh
<slangasek> yes, merely a debconf bug :)
<slangasek> cjwatson: is this error familiar?
<slangasek>  debconf: DbDriver "config": rename failed: Is a directory
<cjwatson> huh, that's a new one on me
<cjwatson> I suspect fs corruption, but have posted asking for more details
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> is anyone here seeing crash reports from plymouthd?
<slangasek> we get plenty of duplicate reports, but I have no idea what the common element is :/
<slangasek> ev, cjwatson: rickspencer3 was saying yesterday that he was having trouble installing from USB with the daily; was this a known issue (to you)?
<ev> nope
<ev> bug reports welcome
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> I'll circle around
<ev> thanks
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 21 15:56:16 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-21-15.07.moin.txt
<slangasek> that's a wrap then
<slangasek> thanks, guys!
<ev> thanks!
<cjwatson> there's an outstanding bug about grub still being installed to the wrong place sometimes
<barry> thanks!
<doko> thanks
<stgraber> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<slangasek> cjwatson: I had the impression that things were failing for him much earlier... but yeah, more info needed
<Ursinha> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA Team
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 21 17:03:18 2011 UTC.  The chair is Ursinha. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:
<Ursinha> apologies in advance as it's the first time I chair this meeting :)
<Ursinha> roll call!
<Ursinha> who's here?
<Ursinha> o/
<charlie-tca> o/
<Ursinha> hggdh, hello :)
<Ursinha> who else?
<gema> o/
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Previous Actions
<Ursinha> the only one was about Ursinha chairing this week
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha>  [TOPIC] Community Efforts/Testing
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Community Efforts/Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Community Efforts/Testing
<Ursinha> anyone has updates on community efforts?
<jibel> Hi o/
<Ursinha> hi jibel :)
<nuclearbob> howdy /o
<Ursinha> and nuclearbob
<Ursinha> any updates on this one?
<jibel> I do
<Ursinha> go ahead
<jibel> this week we are testing Oneiric Beta 2
<jibel> Good candidates have been posted only few hours ago so coverage is quite low (Image Coverage       : 27.63% (21/76))
<jibel> There is still 1 day of testing before the release of Beta 2, so please go to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/notcompleted
<jibel> download an image and test it.
<jibel> Bug status on Beta 2 testing:
<jibel>  * Critical  	: 2 (2 closed)
<jibel>  * High      	: 16 (2 closed)
<jibel>  * Medium    	: 10
<jibel>  * Low       	: 1 (1 closed)
<jibel>  * Wishlist  	: 1
<jibel>  * Undecided 	: 10 (1 closed)
<jibel> the full list is there http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/iso-testing-open-all.html
<jibel> that's all from me on beta 2 testing
<Ursinha> ..?
<gema> he's probably gone to continue testing
<gema> ..
<jibel> ..
<Ursinha> :)
<jibel> sorry
<Ursinha> cool
<Ursinha> no problem
<Ursinha> anything else from anyone on that topic?
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Automated/Systems Testing
<gema> o/
<Ursinha> go ahead gema :)
<gema> not much to update this week, I am still looking for people that can send comments on the test analysis for ubiquity, so if anyone else wants to volunteer that'd be good
<gema> and I am helping with Beta 2 as well
<gema> nothing else from me
<gema> ..
<Ursinha> cool
<Ursinha> so please help gema :)
<Ursinha> I have something as well, not sure if entirely related
<Ursinha> I'm testing the new checkbox as ara asked us to do (using checkbox ppa) but it seems there's no gtk or cli packages available
<Ursinha> ara isn't here
<charlie-tca> o/
<Ursinha> go ahead charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> I didn't forget, I just ran a bit short of time. I am sorry and will get to it this week, gema
<gema> not a problem, charlie-tca, there's still time :)
<gema> I was trying to recruit more minds :)
<gema> ..
<charlie-tca> ..
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> cool
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to chase checkbox package problem with ara
<meetingology> ACTION: Ursinha to chase checkbox package problem with ara
<Ursinha> moving on then
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Engineering Team Bug Status
<Ursinha> hggdh, is it your time to shine? :)
<Ursinha> hmm
<jibel> Ursinha, hggdh won't attend this meeting
<Ursinha> he might not be around
<Ursinha> ah, ok
<Ursinha> jibel, is that permanent or just today?
<jibel> today
<Ursinha> okay :)
<Ursinha> so, I'm working on adding an apport hook to powernap package
<Ursinha> also working on a prioritized report of bugs for the server team
<Ursinha> and also tweaking the SRU report so it won't break launchpad when it runs.
<Ursinha> ..
<Ursinha> bdmurray, pedro_, hello folks! anything for us this week?
<pedro_> not from me at least, been catching up since holidays and triaging iso testing bugs
<jibel> Brian couldn't be here either
<Ursinha> right, thanks pedro
<Ursinha> or pedro_
<Ursinha> jibel, okay.. :)
<Ursinha> let's move on then
<pedro_> he's with hggdh? ;-)
<Ursinha> lol
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Other Topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Other Topics
<Ursinha> free for all
<Ursinha> anything else you have in mind?
<gema> we would like to improve a lot going forward
<gema> the automation testing for Ubuntu
<gema> so if anyone has any thoughts that they want to see implemented
<gema> I would like to see them coming our way :D
<Ursinha> gema, cool :) where to get started on that?
<gema> exactly !
<Ursinha> I mean
<gema> anything, we are where we are and we would like to improve
<Ursinha> where could one get started on that? :P
<Ursinha> is there a wiki page or something for an interested person?
<gema> ideas, whenever you've been testing, where have you seen room for improvement
<gema> what would you do different if you had time to
<gema> what do you find confusing
<gema> anything
<Ursinha> seems good
<Ursinha> gema, is there a page where ideas are being discussed/noted?
<gema> not yet, but we will get there
<Ursinha> cool :)
<gema> put an action on me to make that happen
<Ursinha> !
<Ursinha> [action] gema to create a starting point (page or something) to discuss and note automation testing for Ubuntu
<meetingology> ACTION: gema to create a starting point (page or something) to discuss and note automation testing for Ubuntu
<gema> thanks
<gema> ..
<Ursinha> is that ok?
<Ursinha> cool
<Ursinha> anyone else?
<Ursinha> thanks gema!
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Chair Selection
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Chair Selection
<Ursinha> gema, do you have that blinky shuffle command in there?
<Ursinha> handy
<gema> it was shuf and the names
<gema> of whoever is here
<Ursinha> hehe
<Ursinha> that would be me, you, jibel, pedro_, nuclearbob and charlie-tca
<gema> no, not out of the box, gimme a sec
<charlie-tca> looks like this in terminal:
<charlie-tca> shuf -e hggdh patrickmw pedro_ bdmurray jibel Ursinha nuclearbob gema charlie-tca|head -1
<Ursinha> awesome charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> well, take out some names, I guess
<gema> yep, that's it
<jibel> Ursinha, propose a patch against the bot to add a meetingology command
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to add irc commands to the next chair
<meetingology> ACTION: Ursinha to add irc commands to the next chair
<Ursinha> jibel, you did or you want me to do that? :)
<jibel> you will
<Ursinha> hahaha
 * Ursinha appends that to her TODO list
<Ursinha> 14:27:01 ursula@galactica: ~ $ shuf -e hggdh pedro_ jibel Ursinha nuclearbob gema charlie-tca|head -1
<Ursinha> jibel
<charlie-tca> Yay, jibel
<Ursinha> how does that look?
<charlie-tca> looks right to me
<Ursinha> :)
<jibel> haha, what a coincidence, I don't trust your terminal
<Ursinha> I can printscreen that!
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> jibel, if that's not ok I can run that again
<jibel> Ursinha, no problem, that's perfect
<Ursinha> good then :)
<Ursinha> so
<Ursinha> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 21 17:29:31 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-21-17.03.moin.txt
<Ursinha> thanks guys!
<pedro_> Ursinha, thanks for chairing!
<gema> thank you!
 * jibel immediate worry is to have Beta 2 covered
<charlie-tca> Ursinha: thank you for chairing
<Ursinha> no problem!
<jibel> Thanks Ursinha
<Ursinha> it was a nice experience, I can do that again if you want :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-22
<ogra_> fnop
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 22 14:59:22 2011 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * davidm waves
<NCommander> hrm, the bot ene upgraded
<davidm> seems like
<NCommander> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20110922
<NCommander> we have no action items from last meeting so
<NCommander> #link http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
<NCommander> #link http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm-ubuntu-11.10-beta-2.html
<janimo> hello
<ogra_> i guess we need to start the postponing fun
<NCommander> hrm, the tracker is only showing me and infinity
<NCommander> ogra_: fix it :-P
<ogra_> ??
<ogra_> i wonder where you look at
<ogra_> i see the whole team
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> nm
<NCommander> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm-ubuntu-11.10.html - I typed the wrong page in my browser
<ogra_> GrueMaster, your update-initramfs test can be set to done if you made a succwessfull install ;)
<NCommander> workitem wise, we're not too bad off. I have a few stranglers which will die soon (and some I should have marked DONE already)
<ogra_> infinity, do we plan to still see the apt ship pool whatever changes ?
<ogra_> looks to me like thats P material
<infinity> ogra_: Yeah, I'd like to land them early next week, I think.
<ogra_> (pool works as is)
<infinity> But I could defer.
<ogra_> hmm
<ogra_> its really late and we should all concentrate on bugs from now on
<infinity> Pool works, but tasks are broken, which is pretty annoying for server.
<ogra_> and given that it works atm ...
<davidm> I'd prefer to postpone none critical items until next cycle
<ogra_> right
<davidm> Lets clean up, get RC solid and be happy
<ogra_> right
 * infinity shrugs.
<infinity> Happy to defer, though that is a bug. :P
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<davidm> infinity, is it big enough to SRU later?
<ogra_> GrueMaster, postzpone the preinstalled stuff for jasper too, unless you want to actually test preinstall commands on kernel cmdline (that works since forever)
<infinity> davidm: SRUing it's not really an option, IMO.
<NCommander> w.r.t. to omap guided partitioning, I *finally* got partman-uboot ina state where it does what it should. I need to cook off a new partman-reciepes, but that shouldn't be too hard. I'll give GrueMaster a modifiednetinstall to test today or tomorrow.
<GrueMaster> ok
<ogra_> NCommander, you still have three open items too
<ogra_> server kernel is on the schedule for P, i think you can postpone that
<ogra_> the other two look pretty well, like paperwork
<NCommander> yup, will do.
<davidm> infinity, OK then not that critical I suspect
<NCommander> paperwork fortunately isn't affected by freezes
<ogra_> ppisati, the kernel config WI is also covered by a UDS session
<NCommander> i'm unsure if thats a :-) or a :-(
<GrueMaster> I'm going to mark iSCSI as done.  The only remaining issue was booting from iSCSI and that is being worked on in the server team.
<ogra_> ppisati, so i'd say postpone that
<ppisati> ogra_: WI?
 * ogra_ guesses that were all WIs that were left
<ppisati> ah
<ogra_> i must say we did pretty well given the sheer amount of crao we had after UDS :)
<ppisati> work item
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> ppisati, see the link above
<ogra_> you have one open item that can be postponed
<ogra_> NCommander, move ? :)
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing exciting this week
 * janimo working on getting ac100 new kernel packaged and uploaded
<ppisati> on my side
<ogra_> woohoo
<ppisati> i'm working on the sd removal bug
<ppisati> (and i found the problem)
<ogra_> wow, that was fast
<infinity> janimo: Didn't you have an mx5 kernel incoming for me too?
<janimo> infinity, jcrigby is handling that
<ppisati> yep, but i don't know yet how to properly fix it (because that would be a layering violation)
<infinity> janimo: Shiny.
<janimo> his git tree and processes, I had no idea how to make even such a small change
<ogra_> yeah, its tricky if you are not used to it
<janimo> which is sad. One line change and a bugfix that can be expressed clearly in a single sentence (turn on CONFIG_LDBAF) needs a lot of legwork
<ogra_> and even if you know how to do it ... you will fall flat on your face if it doesnt work right :)
<ogra_> sincer these scripts are pure mystery
<ogra_> *since
<janimo> well, some of the docs help, but not everything is documented
<ogra_> yeah
<janimo> worse there is more than one way to do it
<ogra_> hehe
<ogra_> linux is all about choice ;)
<ogra_> NCommander, ?
<janimo> yes, and it is refelcted by the awesome market share
<NCommander> ogra_: ?
 * ogra_ puts NCommander on wheels so he starts moving 
<ogra_> :)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<ogra_> gobject-introspection fails :(
<infinity> The rebuild test is finally done, we should be combing through the results as quickly as we can.
<janimo> I tentatively looked at postgres failing.
<ogra_> and postgres might be intresting for the server side
<janimo> right
<ogra_> (looking at the ftbfs list)
<janimo> I'd say it is essential?
<ogra_> beyond that, main looks as good as universe looks bad
<ogra_> we should all try to paticipate in the 5 a day project cjwatson started ... ate least with one or two packages per week or so
<ogra_> _*at
<ogra_> more if you can :)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<janimo>  2 packages per week is not participation in 5 a day project :)
<ogra_> janimo, more than nothing :)
<janimo> that is true
<ogra_> images look okayish
<ogra_> they *should* be better at this point of the release though
<ogra_> desktop really fell behind
<GrueMaster> Need to reenable swap, at least on omap.
<ogra_> but overall they are fine
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> i think infinity committed to fix that properly yesterday
<ogra_> mx5 is a bit in a weird state
<infinity> GrueMaster: Did I get a bug report?
<janimo> needs kernel to test properly
<ogra_> we know it works but it didnt survive the switch to ext4
<infinity> ogra_: I suspect mx5 will be Just Fine with the new kernel, but hard to tell without.
<GrueMaster> infinity: I was asleep when you responded, and still on my first cup of coffee, so...not yet.
<ogra_> infinity, i thought janimo did a local ext3 test
<infinity> GrueMaster: Kay. :)
<janimo> ogra_, GrueMaster did a test, and so did I
<ogra_> k
<ogra_> that should be enough
<janimo> looked reasonable
<ogra_> we just need to convince skaet that it is ;)
 * skaet is a bit worried about mx5 for good reason.... :P
<GrueMaster> Any chance of getting a new kernel and a new image today to make release?
<ogra_> skaet, its all fine, but we only discovered during milestone testing that ext4 support is missing
<ogra_> GrueMaster, no, builds to long
<GrueMaster> k
<infinity> Broken kernel configs are easy to fix.  I'm not terribly concerned.  Yet. :)
<GrueMaster> skaet: The image was fine Monday prior to EXT4 switch (and ubiquity churn).
<skaet> thanks GrueMaster.  :)
<ogra_> skaet, we will have to skip B2 for it, but from monday lates iot shoudl be fine, its a "community supported" image anyway
<ogra_> *latest
<janimo> save for archive skew :)
<ogra_> hehe
<janimo> since the upload floodgates are open again for the desktop team :)
 * ogra_ has nothing else for images ... if NCommander wants to move ...
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
 * GrueMaster wakes up to respond.
 * janimo was conned into signing in to iso.qa
<GrueMaster> Release testing went...Well it happened.
<GrueMaster> I really do not feel as good about this release as I have in prior releases this late in the cycle, due to lack of dep testing.
<GrueMaster> *deep
<ogra_> agreed
<GrueMaster> My focus next week will be dedicated to desktop deep testing to see what I can squeeze out.  We don't have a lot of time left to shake out any bugs, so stay in touch.
<ogra_> that needs fixing in P
<GrueMaster> Beyond that, I don't have anything else.  mahmoh?
<mahmoh> nothing here GrueMaster
<GrueMaster> moving on....
 * GrueMaster listens to the silence.  Somewhere in the distance, a cricket chirps.
<NCommander> [topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
<rsalveti> hey
<rsalveti> first is the request to help sponsoring the libjpeg-turbo package
<rsalveti> package at revu already, and skaet agreed that it would be good to publish it at least to universe, if possible
<rsalveti> during last week at the release meeting
<infinity> What is it, exactly?
<NCommander> rsalveti: what is it and why do we want to uploadless than 15 days from release?
<rsalveti> if anyone with time to review it, please :-)
<infinity> An ABI-compatible accelerated replacement for libjpeg is how I'd read it from just the name.
<janimo> rsalveti, speaking of which , there should be an organized linaro sponsoring process. As it is now the requests ar ead-hoc and left to the developers themselves, who often do not dare asking or know where to do it, and are content with the many ppas
<rsalveti> libjpeg62 replacement, with simd support
<ogra_> NCommander, its universe ... there will likely still be plenty of packages :)
<ogra_> s/packages/new packages/
<rsalveti> neon and such, for those who want to try at arm devices
<davidm> I'd say lets go for it if skaet is OK with it
<ogra_> indeed
<rsalveti> skaet already gave OK
<davidm> simd support is very good
<infinity> rsalveti: Too late now, of course, but why aren't the changes in libjpeg itself? :P
<rsalveti> was discussed during last release meeting
<GrueMaster> I have plenty of jpg images to put it through some paces.
<rsalveti> infinity: long history
<rsalveti> default at firefox, chromium and fedora already
 * skaet nods,  its universe, so low risk. 
<infinity> GrueMaster: Porn is not a test framework.
<janimo> infinity, this is an upstream fork not a linaro one, linaro contributed though lately
<rsalveti> yup
<rsalveti> libjpeg-turbo is quite old already
<GrueMaster> aww.
<rsalveti> janimo: yeah, planning to discuss that at UDS
<janimo> ok
<rsalveti> there was some discussion over email already, will see how it goes
<rsalveti> also worked to get 4460 working with our images
<rsalveti> support is quite broken atm, need kernel and u-boot fixes
 * ogra_ wishes we could test that already :P
<janimo> rsalveti, but no new packages, they still go to omap4 right?
<rsalveti> do we want/need to make the support for the release?
<rsalveti> janimo: no new package, just bugfixies
<janimo> if possible sure
<ogra_> rsalveti, depends on the impact
<infinity> Want, sure, need, no.
<janimo> otherwise the borad will appear and there will be no ubuntu support for them till april
<infinity> And yes, depending on impact.
<GrueMaster> For 4460?  If we can get it in before release, it would be awesome.
<rsalveti> kernel should be fine, as it's specific to a board revision
<janimo> is this quad-core or merely dual?
<ogra_> below 200 LOC might be ok :)
<rsalveti> u-boot should be tricky
<davidm> or we can point folks at Linaro bootloads with instructions on how to fix image
<ogra_> janimo, still A9
<rsalveti> but will get it working here first, and open the bugs for them
<janimo> ogra_, even if obfuscated and 80 columns wide ascii art 200 LOC ?
<rsalveti> then you can decide based on the amount of required changes
<GrueMaster> davidm: That gets ugly.  I am already doing that for Maverick and Natty.
<ogra_> janimo, i dont care,i dont have to review it *g*
<janimo> we can always point to linaro images, as they are usually more up to date, true
<ogra_> janimo, hmm ?
<ogra_> how can they be more up to dayte if they are a release behind ?
<rsalveti> we're also creating oneiric based images now
<rsalveti> and hope to switch to it next month
<rsalveti> we'll see how it goes
<janimo> they are based on a release behind but ahead with platform support stuff
<rsalveti> anyway, that's most of ti
<janimo> old evince, new kernel uboot X
<rsalveti> we're preparing the release, so everybody is busy atm
<janimo> I know I'd pick the second set if only that works on my board :)
<ogra_> depends what you want :)
<davidm> ogra GrueMaster do you have 4460 boards yet
<ogra_> nope
<GrueMaster> not yet.
<davidm> Yea, thats what I thought
<ogra_> nicolas wanted to ask around once again
<ogra_> i'll ask him tomorrow again :)
<davidm> I got an email asking for shipping addresses which I provided
<ogra_> ah
<davidm> but nothing so far then
<infinity> Ooo, new toys?
<ogra_> same toys, new heart :)
<davidm> Apparently not ....
<rsalveti> infinity: you should join the ti call ;-)
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> if you like to get up in the middle of the night :)
<infinity> rsalveti: That would involve one more meeting a week.
<infinity> (And that)
<rsalveti> first issue is that the led gpio is now connect at the mpu o_O
<rsalveti> so once you boot the board, and the led is on, it'll basically turn itself off
<ogra_> fun !
<rsalveti> fixed already, but was fun :-)
<rsalveti> anyway, I'm done
<NCommander> sorry about that
<NCommander> my laptop suddenly decided that it didn't have a wifi card
<ogra_> NCommander, we didnt notice
<ogra_> but yuo can move ;)
<ogra_> *you even
<janimo> rsalveti, do linaro have beagle images too?
<janimo> omap3 I mean
<davidm> NCommander, moving on
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<rsalveti> janimo: yes
<rsalveti> janimo: igep, overo, beagle, panda, and so on
<janimo> no pandas this cycle for armel builds? We carry the timed out builds to P
<ogra_> ??
<ogra_> we are already building on pandas
<ogra_> partitally at least ... until infinity needs them
<rsalveti> one question I had, are we really planning to go just with armhf for next cycle?
<rsalveti> half/half?
<ogra_> half half
<rsalveti> just because it'll be a lts
<infinity> janimo: We have a bunch.  Though once armhf toolchain changes land, they'll get repurposed to armhf.
<ogra_> was always the plan
<rsalveti> but was initially for this cycle
<ogra_> we have to pick which one is the default
<infinity> rsalveti: "Hope" is a better word than "Plan" with al the delays we've had. :/
<rsalveti> and have only armfh for next cycpe
<rsalveti> infinity: yeah =\ that's why I'm asking
<ogra_> no, you need at least one release where you have them in parallel
<GrueMaster> so was getting all the pandas in the build farm online.
<rsalveti> infinity: what's the current status on that?
<infinity> rsalveti: Need to land a GCC change, test it, re-bootstrap, and go.
 * janimo wonders if giving back packages that fail after 10 hours hoping they land on a panda this time is a good use of build resources
<infinity> Well, can probably skip most of re-bootstrapping with a compat symlink for a while.
<ogra_> a gcc change after b2 ?
<rsalveti> ok, cool
<infinity> ogra_: One that only affects a new architecture.
<ogra_> ah, k
<infinity> janimo: No.  If you want that to happen, talk to me, and we'll force it.
<GrueMaster> Much as I personally hate to say it, I think we will need to make both armel and armhf images for testing next cycle.
<ogra_> yes
<janimo> infinity, good. Last time you said it is only possible if everythng is on manual, which is a hassle. I'll check the list to see what the latest status is
<infinity> We already knew that.
<ogra_> but we will only release one of them
<infinity> We have to test both until some arbitrary cutoff point where we choose one for release.
<janimo> and will only test one of them :D
<rsalveti> and are we supporting both as LTS?
<ogra_> janimo, nope
<rsalveti> or just armel
<infinity> janimo: It *is* only possible with everything on manual. :P
<ogra_> rsalveti, unlikely that we support both
<infinity> janimo: But that's not rocket science either.
<rsalveti> guess a good discussion for uds
<ogra_> we cant destabilize server
<ogra_> so hf needs to be rock solid before we switch
<infinity> rsalveti: We won't really know by UDS.  But we'll support the one that doesn't suck.
 * janimo thinks of the churn in debian packaing to replace/amend armel ifdefs with armhf
<rsalveti> hehe
<ogra_> janimo, the debian hf port should have a good bunch already
<janimo> infinity, what are the suckage risks? Toolchain issues?
<infinity> janimo: Honestly, my only concern is having it all built in a couple of months.
<infinity> Whenever the armel buildds are idle, I intend to steal most of them for armhf to try to speed that process up.
<infinity> We'll see how that works out.
<davidm> rsalveti, we'll make at call at freature freeze which will be what we go out with for ARM
<janimo> is buying setting up 20 or more boards to help such an obstacle?
<davidm> once we choose, we will stop testing images on the other arch
<rsalveti> davidm: fair enough
<janimo> we seem to spend more in man hours trying to cater for that deficiency
<davidm> janimo, getting pandas is VERY hard again
<rsalveti> imx53 is a *lot* easier now
<GrueMaster> janimo: We have systems that aren't online yet.  It isn't due only to a lack of boards.
<rsalveti> and with sata
<davidm> I'm hoping something else will pop up soonish
<infinity> I'd happily take a bunch of mx53s.
<janimo> GrueMaster, hence my 'setting up' in the question
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, it hads to proove stable first :)
<ogra_> *has
<GrueMaster> janimo: Manpower is also a big limiting factor.
<janimo> indeed, lots of mx53s are good to, it;s not like we used dual cores so fa
<janimo> r
<ogra_> with things like ext4 support missing in the kernel i wouldnt go for a buildd on it yet :)
<rsalveti> well, at least you'll have support from linaro :-)
<infinity> GrueMaster: Other than the master/slave in the DC being fiddled with for the "PPA cluster", we have others not online?
<janimo> GrueMaster, right but seems a lot of manpower - albeit that of different men - is wasted to work around such issues, and to twddle thumbs while waiting
<GrueMaster> iirc, we have 5 in a sudo state.
<GrueMaster> We can discuss offline.
<davidm> infinity, GrueMaster  lets take this off-line and talk to the folks that know whats going on
 * infinity nods.
<janimo> GrueMaster, sudo state - the one in which a person gets you a sandwich without opposition?
<janimo> like a trance you mean?
<GrueMaster> NCommander: Close?
<NCommander> closing in 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 22 15:57:28 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-22-14.59.moin.txt
<AlanBell> @defaultcapability remove misc.last
<meetingology> AlanBell: The operation succeeded.
 * pitti waves
<kees> \o
<pitti> so, just the two of us plus half a cjwatson
<kees> heh. yeah, not sure where Keybuk is.
<mdz> 1/2 of me
<pitti> hey mdz
<mdz> who is chairing?
<pitti> I didn't notice anything on the lists recently
<pitti> mdz: I don't think we picked a chair last time as we just skipped the meeting
<kees> I was out last meeting; was there a summary sent?
<pitti> no, there was nothing happening
<pitti> we just stated that cjwatson's item (brainstorm) was/is happening
 * kees nods
<mdz> my only agenda item is that I'm disappointed that we haven't kept up with the brainstorm reviews
<mdz> we made a public commitment to do it once a quarter and we haven't met that commitment
<mdz> the previous one was...March?
<kees> is there some kind of infrastructure or reporting we could put in place to help stay on schedule?
<mdz> a calendar would do
<pitti> we noted on the agenda when the next one was due
<pitti> but apparently it was dropped now
<mdz> I think I put it on the ubuntu engineering calendar as well
<kees> pitti: ah, like a count-down?
<pitti> I think whenever we do one we shold bump the date there, not drop the item completely
<pitti> i. e. * Brainstorm review [next due: Month Year]
<pitti> so the normal cycle would have been to have the next one nowish, right?
<pitti> so we should do the next one over christmas?
<kees> pitti: yeah, seems right
 * pitti adds it back then
<pitti> done
<pitti> so I guess that's a wrap?
<pitti> so, good night everyone!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-23
<macer1> @whoami
<meetingology> macer1: macer1
<seb128> hi
<jdstrand> hello
 * skaet waves :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Sep 23 15:00:09 2011 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Agenda can be found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-09-23
<skaet> .
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Thank you for everyone's help getting Beta 2 released yesterday!!
<skaet> Data still coming in from ISO tracker bug will make its way onto the team lists over the next couple of days.  Please be alert for it, and help make sure the key ones are appropriately prioritized (and fixed ;) ).
<skaet> .
 * jibel waves
<skaet> Based on discussions last week in this meeting the archive is remaining frozen now for the remainder of the cycle.   Please ping a release team member on #ubuntu-release if a high/critical bug fix needs shepherding through if its been sitting there for more than 12 hours.  11.10 FeatureFreeze,  UserInterfaceFreeze, Archive Freeze still in effect
<skaet> .
 * stgraber waves
<skaet> Thank you to those team's who've been updating their burndowns over the last week,  still a bit more scrubbing looks like its needed, as we're above the trend lines.
<skaet> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/
<skaet> .
<skaet> Key dates coming up:
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<skaet> 11.10 Final Freeze:  Sept 29 at 2100 UTC.
<skaet> 11.10 Non Language Pack Translation Deadline:  Sept 29 at 2100 UTC
<skaet> 11.10 Language Pack Translation Deadline:  Oct 6 at 1200 UTC
<skaet> 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011
 * charlie-tca waves
<skaet> .
 * skaet glad to see all the waves :)
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> ..
<skaet> ok,  starting into the round table then.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<mlegris> [Week 38 Testing Report]
<mlegris> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/week38_2011.html
<mlegris> .
<mlegris> Beta 2 Testing
<mlegris> * A representative sample of clients is being retested with the Beta 2 image. * Mainly failed systems from our previous testing..
<mlegris> Bugs:
<mlegris> * Â Bug #810145 - unity-panel-service crashes..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 810145 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGABRT in __kernel_vsyscall()" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810145
<mlegris> any questions?
<skaet> Thanks mlegris!   will note the bug
<mlegris> np! :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> = Oneiric Beta 1 testing =
<jibel> Testing report: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/OneiricBeta2TestReport
<jibel> Bug summary:
<jibel>  * Critical : 7 (3 closed)
<jibel>  * High : 26 (7 closed)
<jibel>  * Medium : 27 (2 closed)
<jibel>  * Low : 8 (3 closed)
<jibel>  * Wishlist : 3
<jibel>  * Undecided : 39 (4 closed)
<jibel> List of bugs found during this milestone
<jibel> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/report
<jibel> List of bugs found during previous milestones:
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/iso-testing-open-all.html
<jibel> Critical issues still opened:
<jibel> bug 832603
<jibel> bug 851472
<jibel> bug 852012
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832603 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_simple_async_result_complete()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832603
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 851472 in compiz (Ubuntu Oneiric) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in _XFreeEventCookies()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851472
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 852012 in unity-2d (Ubuntu Oneiric) "unity-2d-panel assert failure: *** glibc detected *** unity-2d-panel: corrupted double-linked list: 0x094bc9b0 ***" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852012
<jibel> bug 856669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856669 in pygobject (Ubuntu Oneiric) "pygobject 3.0.0-0svn1 does not work with custom python GTK widgets" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856669
<jibel> = Oneiric Bug activity =
<jibel> * New bugs opened during last week (no dups): 1441(-1.3% over previous week)
<jibel> * Top 5 packages:
<jibel>   * unity: 96 (6.66%)
<jibel>   * gnome-settings-daemon: 74 (5.14%)
<jibel>   * compiz: 60 (4.16%)
<jibel>   * nautilus: 57 (3.96%)
<jibel>   * linux: 50 (3.47%)
<jibel> * 12 reports were tagged as regression:
<jibel> 824099	Max GL texture size can break multi-head
<jibel> 852902	Parse failure when connecting to remote sources/sinks
<jibel> 856821	unity-panel-service crashed with signal 5 in _XError()
<jibel> 856317	gsettings-data-convert crashed with signal 5 in g_settings_set_value()
<jibel> 854603	lightdm crashed with SIGSEGV in lh_insert()
<jibel> 853629	empathy assert failure: *** glibc detected *** empathy: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x097f9c00 ***
<jibel> 856975	fontconfig-voodoo crashed with DBusException in __new__(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.FileNotFound: Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory
<jibel> 855394	update-manager crashed with AptDaemonError in _convert_dbus_exception(): org.debian.apt: Could not cancel transaction
<jibel> 854814	cd drive lock does not work after oneiric upgrade
<jibel> 854624	[oneiric] suspend/hibernate not performed according to "Power Settings"
<jibel> 853233	update-manager crashed with TypeError in confirmChanges(): glib.markup_escape_text() takes at most 1 argument (2 given)
<jibel> 852904	Unity launcher doesn't appear when a window is maximized
<jibel> * Top 3 packages with High/Critical bugs opened and reported this week:
<jibel>   * xserver-xorg-video-intel: 7 (5 are GPU lockup)
<jibel>   * unity-greeter: 3
<jibel>   * unity-2d: 3
<jibel> * Top 3 crashers of the week:
<jibel>   * unity: 25 (26.04 %)
<jibel>   * software-center: 24 (50.00 %)
<jibel>   * compiz: 21 (35.00 %)
<jibel> * Top 3 packages that need triage (based on the number of untouched reports)
<jibel>   * unity: 33 (34.38 %)
<jibel>   * software-center: 14 (29.17 %)
<jibel>   * ubiquity: 13 (48.15 %)
<jibel> = Boot speed =
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/
<jibel> ..
<skaet> Thanks jibel!
<skaet> any one have questions?
 * skaet goes to look at boot-speed report;)
<mvo> jibel: is #853233 private or something, can't see it here
 * skaet likes new reports,  cool.  :)
<jibel> mvo, it's public now
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team update - jdstrand
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi
<skaet> :)
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> Burn down is below the trend line. The remaining work items should all be either bugs or items not tied to the release schedule. In addition to that, I have only one MIR left requiring a security team audit, so hopefully this helps unblock some remaining items for other teams (particularly the server team).
<jdstrand> Bug #745836 was brought to our attention this week, and we are looking into the ecryptfs side of it. Looking at the list of other oneiric bugs, there aren't any others worth highlighting.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745836 in ecryptfs-utils (Ubuntu Oneiric) "encrypted swap corrupts application stack/heap [was: soffice.bin SIGSEGV cppu::throwException()]" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745836
<jdstrand> ..
<mvo> jibel: I fix this right away
<skaet> Thanks jdstrand!  questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for Oneiric Final is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-kernel-tasks.html
<ogasawara> We have not uploaded any kernels since the linux-3.0.0-11.18 upload prior to Kernel Freeze.  However, we are starting to queue quite a few bug fixes which I think we should upload prior to final freeze.  These fixes include:
<ogasawara>  * net/netfilter/nf_conntrack_netlink.c: fix Oops on container destroy
<ogasawara>   - without this fix system will Oops and hang.
<ogasawara>  * hfsplus: Fix kfree of wrong pointers in hfsplus_fill_super() error path
<ogasawara>   - without this fix system will Oops on mount failure.
<ogasawara>  * Compile-in vfat support for armel
<ogasawara>   - provides ability to flash/install an alternative kernel in the boot partition.
<ogasawara>  * OMAP3 and 4 hwmod I2C units only allow 16 bit access
<ogasawara>   - resolves errors attempting to do 32-bit writes to 16 bit registers (when running under QEMU)
<ogasawara>  * Unregister input device only if it is registered
<ogasawara>   - without this fix, system can hang
<ogasawara>  * add a new linux-image-extras package for virtual
<ogasawara>   - provides extra modules for those who want the virtual flavor plus a few extra modules
<ogasawara>  * headers_install: fix #include "..." usage for userspace
<ogasawara>   - provide proper fix for some ftbfs issues on i386
<ogasawara>  * add driver for Realtek RTS5139 cardreader
<ogasawara>   - provide new driver
<ogasawara>  * x86: reboot: Make Dell Latitude E6220 use reboot=pci
<ogasawara>   - without this fix system hangs on reboot
<ogasawara>  * ata: make DVD drive recognisable on systems with Sandybridge CPT chipset
<ogasawara>   - without this fix the DVD drive is not recongnized
<ogasawara>  * x86: reboot: Make Dell Optiplex 990 use reboot=pci
<ogasawara>   - without this fix, system will hang on reboot
<ogasawara>  * rt2x00: Serialize TX operations on a queue.
<ogasawara>   - without this fix, the driver throws and error and must be reloaded
<ogasawara> All patches have been fully tested and adhere to our SRU policies.  This will be an ABI bump.  I would like to get approval from the release team to upload on Monday.  Comments?
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara!
<cjwatson> compile-in vfat sounds like it should be OK but it might be worth somebody checking for unchecked modprobes in the installer
<ogasawara> cjwatson: ack
<cjwatson> I don't see any in the obvious places so you're probably OK, but maybe an ARM team member should chck
<skaet> Would prefer to see some of the fixes in (on arm side especially).     so ok by me too.
<cjwatson> linux-image-extras, would like to see how the packaging comes out
<cjwatson> seems slightly opaque naming, maybe linux-image-virtual-extras?
<cjwatson> (otherwise it sounds like you can add it to a generic kernel)
<ogasawara> cjwatson: that is more descriptive, I'll get with apw and see about renaming
<skaet> any other questions or comments about the fixes proposed?
<apw> ogasawara, is it not called linux-image-extras-<flavour>
<cjwatson> the others sound OK
<ogra_> vfat should just make the kernel slightly biggeer, i used it on the ac100 kernel for a while and it didnt cause initrd or other issues
<cjwatson> thanks for tracking down the #include "..." problem
<ogasawara> ok, so I'll plan an upload monday and ping the release team to approve it through the queue
<ogasawara> Aside from the above, we are currently trending above our final milestone burndown chart but are below overall.  The remaining work items are not release critical.
<ogasawara> Of the remaining bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> #760131 - Partly fixed in Oneiric and soon natty, more analysis ongoing upstream.
<ogasawara> #836250 - Assigned to kernel dev, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #542660 - Looks to be related to EFI boot not loading the video bios into ram.
<ogasawara> #746133 - Assigned to kernel dev, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #761082 - Confirmed against Oneiric, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #714862 - Assigned to kernel dev, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #754711 - On a 3.0 oneiric kernel, system now suspends but doesn't resume.  systemtap debug scripts to help investigate recently fixed for Oneiric, see 815944.
<ogasawara> #790712 - The order 5 allocation seems to be bogus and non-fatal; further investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #814325 - Issue confirmed upstream, actively under investigation by multiple devs.
<ogasawara> #818177 - Comments and investigation indicate this is a udev issue, not kernel. investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #557261 - Not a kernel issue, was closed Invalid.
<ogasawara> #758486 - Told that TI will push a fix with the next BSP.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> lol, was wondering if we'd get that bit.  :)
<skaet> thanks again.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - Daviey
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> * Beta 2 looks reasonbly stable.
<Daviey> * nova Diablo final didn't make beta 2, due to dep wait on glance promotion to main - which is now resolved.
<Daviey> * Cobbler enrollement support didn't make Beta 2, but is still desired for final release (Bug 831496).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831496 in Ubuntu Oneiric "[FFe] Add cobbler enrollment support to server cd image" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831496
<Daviey> Release Bug Tracking:
<Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> Notes:
<Daviey> 653405	rabbitmq-server fails to start if hostname is unresolvable or has changed since first starting - Awaiting confirmation that this is still a bug
<Daviey> 655533	[master] package likewise-open 5.4.0.42111-2ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 - Awaiting confirmation that this is still a bug
<Daviey> 801494	Multi part LVM layout: system fails to boot due to missing volumes - Possibly related to bug 818177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "HP DL380G5 root disk mounted read-only on boot and boot fails" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<Daviey> 832507	console.log grows indefinitely - robie is polishing off a fix, which will be submitted to upstream trunk shortly and cherry picked
<Daviey> 842845	problems starting multiple lxc instances concurrently - Awaiting confirmation for zul
<Daviey> 856530	nova user should not be in the nogroup group - Will be fixed in next upload
<Daviey> 852771	dhcp leases are not released on instance termination - Should be fixed in current package
<Daviey> 854614	metadata service local-hostname is not fqdn - Unresolved, not certain if it will be fixed for final, but desired.
<Daviey> 845155 instance launched without key has incorrect metadata - Fixed in next upload
<Daviey> 829234	[MIR] socat - Being dropped as a depends, and replaced with netcat - awaiting patch to nova (today).
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html , doesn't quite reflect reality.
<Daviey> ..
<Daviey> bug 818177 is a *big deal* it seems
<skaet> THanks Daviey!  noted.
<skaet> re: status pages,  in what way doesn't quite reflect reality?
<skaet> updates needed?  more done than is indicated?  (she hopes ;) )
<Daviey> skaet: 2 things, one it seems it needs another pass to refresh it to stuff which is Done - and secondly, it has given some things more importance than they deserve
<skaet> Daviey,  thanks for clarification, gotcha.
<skaet> any other questions for Daviey?
<Daviey> will pass it today.
<skaet> :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - ogra_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team update - ogra_
<ScottK> Seems odd https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-o-postfix-enhancements isn't there
<ogra_> = Full Status is at: =
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Summary =
<ogra_>  - B2 release went fine for armel, but we found that desktop needs more looking at wrt bugs
<ogra_>    which the team will focus at during the next weeks.
<ogra_>  - There are still plenty universe armel FTBFS, any additional help would be appreciated.
<ogra_>  - mx5 images are fine but during beta testing it turned out that the kernel was missing an
<ogra_>    essential option that blocked them from release (fix is in the archive already).
<ogra_>  - for OMAP 4460 support there might be x-loader/u-boot changes in the pipe, if they are small
<ogra_>    enough we will was for a late FFe, else they will go to a PPA for manually modifying the images later.
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Image Status =
<ogra_>  - Desktop images are fine
<ogra_>  - Server images build and install fine
<ogra_>  - Netboot images work fine
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Specs =
<ogra_>  - Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
<ogra_>  - B2 http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm-ubuntu-11.10-beta-2.html
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Thanks
<ScottK> Any hope for mx51 support this cycle?
<doko> these are not all arm ftbfs, the rebuild did finish on Thu, bug reports need to be filed
<ogra_> ScottK, the mx5 images support mx53
<ScottK> ogra_: No I take it then?
<ogra_> doko, i'm judging by http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
<doko> ogra: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110819-oneiric.html
<ogra_> ScottK, well, the efikas need special boot i think, but it might be possible to modify the mx5 images for efika booting, not sure
<ogra_> ScottK, janimo implemented it, you should tak to him, its probably possible
<ogra_> *talk
<skaet> Thanks ogra_! :)
<ogra_> :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team update - cjwatson
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> We found several installation problems for beta-2 which needed rapid changes to address, but now's a good time to find them.  pygobject 3 has caused some further trouble, and there are some regressions visible due to the new compcache, but from now on we should be able to settle down.
<cjwatson> Still working on FTBFS, thanks largely to doko; down to 178 (at least of those that have been filed).
<cjwatson> Bug 745960: newly assigned to stgraber, possibly he'll be able to make some headway where I couldn't!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745960 in grub2 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Cannot boot grub after installing to LVM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745960
<cjwatson> Bug 749702: could still use accessibility help
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 749702 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) ""Try Ubuntu" screen-reads as "Try $RELEASE"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749702
<cjwatson> Bug 779283: mvo is making progress, although update-notifier has now been whitelisted so this is less urgent
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 627195 in compiz (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #779283 Apps raised from indicators sometimes dont have the focus" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/627195
<cjwatson> Bug 818177: pending jamesodhunt's return from holiday
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "HP DL380G5 root disk mounted read-only on boot and boot fails" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<cjwatson> Bug 851704: I think I have a fix for this
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 851704 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Oneiric) "GRUB reports error after successful installation (Alternate)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851704
<cjwatson> Bug 854927: couldn't reproduce in isolation, and now the workarounds have gone in I can't reproduce by installing a fresh system; although discussion on Wednesday suggested that forcing .crt files to be processed first might reproduce this, so I'll try that when I get a chance
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854927 in openssl (Ubuntu Oneiric) "c_rehash creating bogus links to ca-certificates.crt" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854927
<cjwatson> Bug 855580: fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 855580 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Oneiric) "task 'Ubuntu Desktop USB' doesn't install a working desktop environment" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855580
<cjwatson> Bug 855685: anyone have opinions on whether this change would be OK at this point?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 855685 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Slideshow: "Ubuntu is all about working for real people"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855685
<cjwatson> Bug 855871: not milestoned, but caused some concern around beta-2 release so looking at this too; it only affects a corner case but may indicate a problem with GRUB's XFS filesystem code
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 855871 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Grub install fails after manual xfs partitioning" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855871
<cjwatson> BTW I question whether it's really a useful use of time at this point to go round marking work items postponed; it should be fairly clear at this point that further features are unlikely to happen, and we could be fixing bugs in that time instead, so perhaps we can just agree to not worry about it?  It may be something we need to worry about as a people-management thing, but it doesn't seem to help the release in any way.
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> Thanks cjwatson,  I've put my comments on 855685.  Am ok as long as it happens quickly - but we need translators and docs input too.
<cjwatson> (that should have been bug 779382 above, sorry)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779382 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "update-notifier not visible under unity" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779382
<cjwatson> ta
<skaet> cjwatson,  I think its up to each team to decide re: work items and how they're tracking.
<skaet> If I know a team is prioritizing a large bug list over the work item cleanup - I'll adjust my expectations.
<cjwatson> OK, I'll double-check with Steve
 * skaet prioritizes getting the bugs fixed higher at this point... just needs to know.
<skaet> any other questions for cjwatson?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro update - fabo or rsalveti
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro update - fabo or rsalveti
<fabo> = Developer Platform =
<fabo>  - FFe for libjpeg-turbo, bug 849337
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 849337 in libjpeg-turbo "FFe: include libjpeg-turbo, a derivative of libjpeg that uses SIMD instructions and additional optimizations" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849337
<fabo>  - LTTng 2.0 pre-release for ARM available into Linaro Overlay PPA for evaluation
<fabo> --
<fabo> = Infrastructure =
<fabo>  - FFe for linaro-image-tools, bug 834003; needs to update to 2011.09, released today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 834003 in Linaro Image Tools "FFE: upload 11.08 to Oneiric" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834003
<fabo>  - Switch to hardware packs v2 (new updated format that can store more information about the target board)
<fabo> --
<fabo> = Kernel WG =
<fabo>  - Linaro Kernel 2011.09 release based on 3.0.4 stable tree. Fix bug 709245
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 709245 in Linaro-Ubuntu "ARM SMP scheduler performance bug" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709245
<fabo>  - Evolution of the Linaro Kernel: continuous integration and based on the stable tree maintained by Greg Koah-Hartman
<fabo> --
<fabo> = Misc =
<fabo>  - UDS/Linaro Connect planning: cross team sessions? e.g. Toolchain consumers
<fabo> ..
<skaet> Thanks fabo!   please subscribe me to the cross team sessions,  I suspect doko will want to be on some of them as well.
<skaet> any questions for fabo?
<fabo> I have one but not for myself ;)
<skaet> sure,  go ahead. :)
<fabo> who can help on ljt and lit FFe? I know Tom has pinged slangasek and ogra_ but no updated review yet
 * ogra_ was pinged ?
<ogra_> i didnt see that, sorry
<ogra_> i'll contact tom
<fabo> ogra_: yeah that's what I've been told
<fabo> ogra_: thanks
<fabo> ogra_: the package is in revu
<fabo> ..
<ogra_> k
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
<skaet> hmmm.. not seeing them in the channel.  moving on.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team update- seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team update- seb128
<seb128> hey
<skaet> :)
<seb128> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<seb128> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team.html
<seb128> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-11.10.html
<seb128> weekly summary
<seb128> We got GNOME 3.1.92 in Oneiric, GNOME 3.2 next week
<seb128> Work items: The remaining issues are now about testing, documenting, and planning for the next release. There is one code-touching item left for firefox to not keep breaking ubuntu-defaults packages with every release.
<seb128> Bug fixing.
<seb128>  
<seb128> the bugs status is on the wiki (first link)
<seb128> ..
<seb128> dx plan an Unity and a compiz update on monday
<seb128> as well
<skaet> Thanks seb128,   any concerns about the GNOME 3.2 landing to keep an eye open for?
<seb128> no
<skaet> :)
 * skaet likes that answer ;)
<seb128> they are code frozen between .92 and .0
<skaet> Thanks seb128!   any other questions for seb128?
<seb128> so it's going to be only translation and maybe a few important bug fixes which got 2 reviews and approval from their release team
<seb128> usually there is very few surprises there ;-)
<doko> besides on armel and powerpc
<seb128> translations are usually fine on armel and powerpc ;-)
<skaet> heh,  thanks for the explanation.   :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<dbarth> hi
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> short report at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
<dbarth> in a nutshell we're accumulating fixes on the weekly milestones
<dbarth> but that will be released on monday morning
<dbarth> and compiz on tuesday
<dbarth> of note
<dbarth> - the testing of the stacking fix for compiz is going well
<dbarth> - multimonitor issues got escalated and we're now reviewing all HW support issues with the xorg and hw cert team
<dbarth> - the music lens update is blocked by a dee/dash issue that is still being investigated as i speak; otherwise the feature would have already been proposed for upload
<dbarth> - performance improvemnt efforts are stalled by those other issues and the general high/critical bugs still on the weekly list
<dbarth>  
<dbarth> the bug radar is not up to date on the wiki report; i'll finish the update later this evening
<dbarth> ..
<skaet> Thanks dbarth!
<skaet> glad to hear the stacking fix is emerging.  Looking forward to that one landing.
<skaet> any quesitons for dbarth?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Things went pretty well for Kubuntu for Beta 2 after some initial excitement about installer crashes.  We are currently working on cherry picking fixes from upstream since KDE 4.7.2 will come too close to release.  We are still sorting out some package updates, but I think they are all low risk.  Qt FTBFS, but didier will fix on Monday.  The only thing I think we need some help with is Bug #856418.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856418 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "KDE OEM Mode Hang On Shutdown" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856418
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK!   any questions?
 * skaet has 856418 noted
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
<stgraber> Hi everyone!
<stgraber> Released a pretty good beta2!
<stgraber> Only got one bug reported by jibel, bug 856460, which seems quite tricky to reproduce (couldn't reproduce on VM or hardware here)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856460 in ltsp (Ubuntu) "ltsp-live fails to configure internal NIC" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856460
<stgraber> Expected changes to come:
<stgraber>  - Uploads for non-langpack translation updates (arkose and edubuntu-live)
<stgraber>  - .desktop overrides in edubuntu-artwork (to hide nepomuk on Edubuntu + Unity)
<stgraber>  - ltsp to fix a few issues in ltsp-live (only create guest accounts we actually use), use /bin/bash for our guest users and maybe fix jibel's bug
<stgraber> Other than that, I'm doing some work on getting WebLive up and running for release but that doesn't require any changes to be uploaded.
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> Questions?
<skaet> Thanks stgraber!  :)
 * skaet glad to hear is nice and positive for this point in the cycle.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> First, let me give a *big* thank you to everyone who did so much work to get beta2 out.
<skaet> +1
<charlie-tca> We really appreciate the help
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu is picking up the latest packages from Xfce, since they have a lot of bug fixes, as well as new translations.
<charlie-tca> as for the bugs,
<charlie-tca> * #831488: Xubuntu should not call gnome-control-center - CLOSED - gnome-control-center no longer installs in Xubuntu, neither does bluetooth.
<charlie-tca> * #840094: There is no screen title - If a user chooses "Install Xubuntu" from the cd menu, there are no page headings or information paragraphs.
<charlie-tca> * #845549: Do not ship /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf - blocks Xubuntu using our own theme; is in-work by robert_ancell and mr_pouit
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit submitted a patch for it, and it is now awaiting approval
<charlie-tca> Any questions?
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> Thanks charlie-tca!
<skaet> are you expecting any FFE's between now and final freeze?
 * skaet can't tell if there'smore than bug fixes in packages referenced or not
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> blueman and garcon, at least
<skaet> ok.  Thanks!
<charlie-tca> thank you
<skaet> [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team update - gilir
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lubuntu Team update - gilir
<gilir> hi :)
<skaet> :)
<gilir> Beta 2 tests this week, no critical bug found, we are in a pretty good shape :)
<gilir> Still some annoying (but not blocker) bugs remain :
<gilir> bug 819542 : It's a visual bug, not blocking jockey usage, but you see it every time you want to test on VirtualBox, maybe relative to bug 820080
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819542 in jockey (Ubuntu) "Generic icon on (old) notification area" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819542
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820080 in libappindicator "broken fallback icons for indicators" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820080
<gilir> bug 798437 : Pull out apt-xapian-index from Lubuntu ISO, previous testing with it enable was bad on some old hardwares (the target of Lubuntu)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 798437 in synaptic (Ubuntu) "Please lower the recommend for apt-xapian-index to suggest" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798437
<gilir> bug 819538 : It's blocking installing Lubuntu using a desktop ISO on hardware with an 4 Gb hard-drive (such as old  eeePC, which are good candidates for Lubuntu)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 775124 in ubiquity (Ubuntu P-series) "duplicate for #819538 Ubiquity should have a command line option to override the free space check" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775124
<gilir> We can add a note on the release notes for the last one, about using alternate ISO instead of desktop ISO in this case.
<gilir> And we planned to upload some little fixes for next week, before final freeze.
<gilir> ..
<skaet> Thanks gilir!
<skaet> I'll note down those bugs after the meeting.
<skaet> any quesions for gilir
<skaet> ?
<mvo> gilir: lets talk about the synaptic issue monday
<gilir> thanks skaet :)
<mvo> gilir: just ping me please
<gilir> mvo, ok
<skaet> [TOPIC] Any other business?  - all
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business?  - all
 * skaet looking around for hands?
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Sep 23 16:00:45 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-23-15.00.moin.txt
<skaet> Thanks you for your participation.  :)    Have a good weekend everyone!
<seb128> thanks
<jibel> thanks skaet , have nice week end.
<charlie-tca> Thank you, skaet
<skaet> Thankyou, mlegris, ogra_, jdstrand, ogasawara, cjwatson, Daviey, fabo, dbarth, ScottK,  charlie-tca,  gilir, stgraber, jibel, seb128 :)
<ogra_> thanks skaet !
<jdstrand> thanks skaet :)
<dbarth> okthxby
<AlanBell> cjwatson: have you tested bug 749702 recently? I didn't notice that installing Beta 1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 749702 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) ""Try Ubuntu" screen-reads as "Try $RELEASE"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749702
<seb128> gilir, charlie-tca: still there?
<charlie-tca> yup
<seb128> gilir, charlie-tca: I guess neither lubuntu or xubuntu want to start nautilus to handle its background right?
<charlie-tca> right
<AlanBell> I would like bug 852583 sorted out before release skaet if possible
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 852583 in gnome-orca (Ubuntu) "Orca does not pronounce "Oneiric Ocelot" very well" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852583
<seb128> charlie-tca, gilir: I'm looking at bug #857159
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 857159 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus launches indiscriminantly (it should not launch for xfce, etc)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857159
<seb128> charlie-tca, gilir: I will set it to OnlyShowIn=GNOME;Ubuntu but I wanted to check I'm not forgetting another desktop where it should run ;-)
<cjwatson> AlanBell: no, I have not
<charlie-tca> AlanBell: take a look at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/6726/991 and let's decide what the priorities are for a11y?
<AlanBell> cjwatson: I will re-test in a bit, but fairly sure it can be closed
<charlie-tca> seb128: to the best of my knowledge, edubuntu uses it too, don't they?
<seb128> charlie-tca, they use GNOME
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: the test case needs to be rewritten a bit for 11.10, the start orca procedure is much improved
<charlie-tca> Yes, I know, AlanBell
<seb128> charlie-tca, i.e it's not a different OnlyShowIn desktop
<charlie-tca> seb128: just checking.
<seb128> thanks for pointing it ;-)
<charlie-tca> AlanBell: I will try to get it written this next week
<charlie-tca> If you are running another screen-reader install, could you confirm those bugs on the tracker?
<ScottK> AlanBell: I don't pronounce Oneiric Ocelot very well either.
<AlanBell> spd-say "oneiric ocelot"
<AlanBell> ^^ try that in a terminal window
<AlanBell> spd-say "on-eer-ric osselot" <-- then that
<charlie-tca> So, it uses the actual dictionary pronounciation then
<charlie-tca> no, it doesn't
<charlie-tca> well, I'm confused, just ignore me for a bit
<AlanBell> can someone confirm 852583
<jbicha> how about just simple names like "pretty panda", :)
<RoAkSoAx> 3/win 2
<skaet> AlanBell,  have noted it on my list and targetted it to the release.   Agree would be good to get it fixed if possible.
<charlie-tca> I really think we have several much higher priority bugs for a11y than a single word pronounced wrong
<charlie-tca> We could start with bug 781385, for example, so visually impaired would actually know what orca is talking about
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 781385 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity GTK should have useful accessible names set in the Glade .ui files instead of using the variable names" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781385
<ScottK> charlie-tca: Since the DX guys are still working on new features for the release, I'm sure there are plenty of people to fix all the critical bugs.
<charlie-tca> Hm, really? That bug about the variable names was filed before Natty released.
<ScottK> Sorry.  Forgot the </sarcasm> tag.
<gilir> seb128, sounds good, thanks for the fix :)
<seb128> gilir, yw ;-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-24
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Sep 24 15:55:11 2011 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Sep 24 15:55:15 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-24-15.55.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-25
<topyli> ircc meeting time?
<Flannel> topyli: Guess not :)
<Unit193> topyli: No meeting then I would guess
<topyli> yep. next time then
<Unit193> Thanks, just checking if you changed it to private or something
<MrChrisDruif> Sorry that I'm late
<MrChrisDruif> Did the Ubuntu Gaming Meeting start already?
<MrChrisDruif> Anyone?
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-17
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> o/
 * sbeattie waves
<tyhicks> Hello
<mdeslaur> o/
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 17 18:12:43 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
 * jdstrand is waiting for one more person
<sarnold> jdstrand: pong
<jdstrand> sarnold: fyi, The meeting agenda can be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<sarnold> (sorry friends, I was unaware that #ubuntu-* was the shorthand for "find it on freendoe")
<jdstrand> so, only announcement this week is welcoming sarnold to the ubuntu-security team :)
<mdeslaur> sarnold: welcome! (again!)
<jdstrand> sarnold: welcome! :)
<jjohansen> Welcome sarnold
<sarnold> thank you all :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week and am also patch piloting. I am supposed to do that today, but may need to reschedule... we'll see
<jdstrand> I've got quite a bit of backlog from last week that I need to get through
<jdstrand> and also follow-ups surrounding the manager's sprint
<jdstrand> I also figure I'll be helping sarnold come up to speed a bit
<jdstrand> I've also got some audits to do, and hopefully get to some updates
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I just published some updates
<mdeslaur> and am working on testing dhcp and dbus updates
<mdeslaur> I need to investigate some gpg key issues
<mdeslaur> and then will pick something else from the list
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I'm briefly looking at a regression fix for openjdk-7 for doko
<sbeattie> I've also got glibc on my plate
<sbeattie> I've still got the apparmor/dbus stuff to upload to a ppa
<sbeattie> after that, I'll try to pick up another update or two
<sbeattie> that's it for me.
<tyhicks> I'm up since Micah is out today
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place again this week
<tyhicks> I'll be submitting the fix for bug 1051892 to upstream OpenSSL today for their comments
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1051892 in openssl (Ubuntu) "[Quantal] Regression in TLS 1.2 workarounds" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051892
<tyhicks> Then I'll proceed with preparing updates for rubygems and ruby1.9.1
<tyhicks> With the kernel merge window coming up soon, I need to get through all of my eCryptfs patch review backlog
<tyhicks> I'm also in the process of getting the latest AppArmor introspection interface patches from jjohansen to start work on my related work items
<tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up
<jjohansen> I have an apparmor QRT failure happening on the QA machines but not locally to finish tracking down. The IMA config and YAMA upstream sync to finish up.
<jjohansen> I still have to get together with sbeattie/tyhicks over apparmor dbus stuff
<jjohansen> And then its back to apparmor labeling/stacking
<jjohansen> thats it for me, jdstrand back to you
<jdstrand> sarnold: you're up
<jdstrand> jjohansen: jeez, already ignoring the new guy :P
<jjohansen> oops
<sarnold> new-employee handling; I think I've just about finished making launchpad happy
<sarnold> I downloaded the magic cve tool but I was a bit shocked at how many CVE entries from three years ago appear to still need work -- are those for real? :)
<jdstrand> yes, they are
<sarnold> oh. my.
<jdstrand> Canonical-supported CVEs should not really be above 'low' though
<jdstrand> community supported packages are in various states of up-to-dateness
<sarnold> so, CVE-2008-2004 isn't 'low' but it does have a handful of 'needed'... is that waiting on upstream?
<ubottu> The drive_init function in QEMU 0.9.1 determines the format of a raw disk image based on the header, which allows local guest users to read arbitrary files on the host by modifying the header to identify a different format, which is used when the guest is restarted. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2008-2004)
<jdstrand> (of course, we have some mediums to do, but you'll see more of that this week)
<jdstrand> sarnold: without looking, xen-3.3 userspace is in universe and community supported
<sarnold> ah!
<sarnold> so the situation is not as dire as it first looked. Thanks.
<sarnold> jdstrand: I think that covers me for now. :) Thanks.
<jdstrand> well, not for canonical supported stuff anyway :)
<jdstrand> np
<jdstrand> which brings me to our next topic
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sun-javadb.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/osc.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ejabberd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pure-ftpd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libdbd-pg-perl.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 17 18:37:44 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-17-18.12.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-17-18.12.html
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks!
<sbeattie> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> jdstrand: btw, the /Meeting agenda page has two times listed for the meetings; both 1700 UTC and 1800 UTC. Is one more common than the other?
<jdstrand> sarnold: no, that is an error
 * jdstrand adjusts
<jdstrand> sarnold: fixed! it will always be 1800 UTC, DST or no
<sarnold> jdstrand: thanks
<jdstrand> sarnold: nice eye :)
<mdz> cjwatson, TB today?
 * pitti waves
<mdz> o/
<cjwatson> hi
<cjwatson> I think I was due to be chair last time but was absent
<cjwatson> or the meeting didn't happen or something
<cjwatson> we do actually have an agenda this time
<cjwatson> kees,stgraber,soren_: around?
<stgraber> yep
<stgraber> I believe I (and maybe some others) missed last meeting because I was just getting back from Linux Plumbers and it was a public holiday in the US and Canada
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 17 20:08:51 2012 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjwatson> I guess we have quorum
<cjwatson> #topic action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review
<cjwatson> The last minutes I see are ancient: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-May/000958.html
<cjwatson> So I'm going to assume that we've just been quiet for that long and have no actions to review at this point; shout if that's untrue
<cjwatson> #topic nvidia/fglrx expedited SRUs (bryce)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: nvidia/fglrx expedited SRUs (bryce)
<pitti> didn't we have some brainstorm review pending?
<cjwatson> I'll have a look and get back to that later, then
<cjwatson> #topic action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review
<cjwatson> <stgraber> #action stgraber to try and find all the places to update the TB meeting time to 20:00 UTC
<cjwatson> now that I found the IRC logs
<cjwatson> stgraber: did that happen?
<stgraber> yep, fridge was updated and wiki too, not aware of any other place to change
<cjwatson> OK
<cjwatson> soren_: so, this brainstorm review ...
<cjwatson> (async ping as he doesn't seem to be here)
<cjwatson> #topic nvidia/fglrx expedited SRUs (bryce)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: nvidia/fglrx expedited SRUs (bryce)
<cjwatson> bryceh: would you like to hash this out any more here?  we don't seem to have consensus yet on the issue of unsubstantiated regressions
<pitti> this was discussed on the ML for a bit already, but the fundamental stability vs. fast turnaround conflict remains
<bryceh> hi
<cjwatson> I'm not sure I see that as the principal conflict :)
<pitti> but I think the whole point of this request was to get leniency on stability there, so I guess we should rather discuss how to get back to the "normal" driver as quickly as possible?
<bryceh> cjwatson, yeah I was distracted writing a reply to that email
<cjwatson> well, I did only send my reply earlier today
<cjwatson> in general I'm supportive of being able to be a bit more relaxed about -updates SRUs, but I want to ensure that we aren't causing problems by doing o
<cjwatson> *so
 * bryceh nods
<mdz> yes, I understood the goal to be to offer an alternative update stream which users could opt in to, with a greater tolerance for possible regressions in favor of compatibility with newer apps
<cjwatson> right, *if* users understand that that's what they're opting into
<mdz> yes
<mdz> a warning would be appropriate
<cjwatson> my concern is that if nvidia-current is busted for a user and nvidia-current-updates works, then their perception will be "this is the one that works" and will be discombobulated when it breaks
<pitti> at the time when they need it, they probably won't have much incentive to not use it
<cjwatson> this would be a lot easier if we could start things off this way as of (say) quantal, with update-manager having reset people to non-updates on upgrade
<cjwatson> is that a feasible thing to do, or do we really really need this for precise?
<pitti> bryceh: I did understand that for -experimental we do want to get back to the "regular" driver on every dist-upgrade; is that planned for -updates as well?
<bryceh> mdz, we are adding a warning for the nvidia-experimental package; currently there is no warning on nvidia-current-updates, although I think we could use the same mechanism to add one.
<pitti> well, I do think that regression reports for -updates should at least hold the line, as usual for SRUs; for -experimental, being quick is the very point of the exercise, so that's where the leniency comes in, no?
<bryceh> pitti, right, plan is that we're doing that for -experimental.  Whether to do that for -updates is open for discussion.
<cjwatson> I'm not sure I see how the mechanism pitti proposes will achieve this
<cjwatson> the proposal is that, at release time, -experimental is an empty transitional package depending on nvidia-current
<pitti> cjwatson: I'm mostly concerned about enabling this for your favorite game of the day, and then forgetting about it, so that you keep having the risk for all eternity
<cjwatson> and that later -experimental becomes a real package and drops the Depends
<cjwatson> But that doesn't help, because everyone who had -experimental installed earlier still has it installed, transitional package or not
<cjwatson> So the upgrade will turn it from transitional to real and we have the same problem
<pitti> that would only work for dist-upgrades until there is a newer -experimental in the newer release, yes
<pitti> so that does need u-m support
<cjwatson> The only way I can see this working properly is bryceh's suggestion of changing package names for each nvidia series
<cjwatson> Which is somewhat inelegant, but perhaps the best we can do?
<bryceh> cjwatson, to your earlier question, yes it's strongly wanted for the LTS
<pitti> we did have that in the past, and for some reason that was changed to the -current name; but yes, -NNN would ceratainly make these upgrades work with pure apt
<cjwatson> -current makes more sense for "the one we want most people to use"
<bryceh> yep
<bryceh> one question I don't have a good opinion on, so would like advice:
<cjwatson> so yes - if we can start from a clean slate, and ensure that anyone who installs the given package has seen a warning (or had to go to effort to preseed it away), then I'm moderately sanguine about some reasonable approach to handle regressions that we can't substantiate with reasonable effort
<bryceh> once the beta is done and an official version is released by NVIDIA, should we update nvidia-experimental to the release version or leave it at whatever old beta driver it was on?
<cjwatson> nvidia-NNN-experimental, no?
<cjwatson> (or similar naming)
<bryceh> or nvidia-experimental-NNN
<cjwatson> there doesn't seem much point in leaving it at a beta version for the sake of it, really
<cjwatson> assuming that in general official > earlier-versioned-beta ...
<pitti> why do we need both "-experimental" and "-NNN"? I thought -NNN would suffice?
<bryceh> cjwatson, so like if we have nvidia-experimental-123, and 123.11, 123.22, 123.33 are the beta version, with 123.44 being the official release, should we leave it to 123.33 or go to 123.44 (which would also presumably appear in nvidia-current-updates at some point)
<cjwatson> is there a reason why people might want 123.33 not 123.44?
<pitti> I think we should update betas to finals
<pitti> chances are that some games need the fixes anyway?
<bryceh> yeah that's what I'm thinking...
<ScottK> Make nvidia-experimental-123 transitional and have it depend on nvidia-current-updates once the release is done.
<pitti> and if we don't release beta->final to experimental due to caution, why would we do that for -updates?
<cjwatson> right, I have trouble thinking of a reason why we wouldn't; although I wonder whether that should be done by depending on nvidia-current-updates (thus making it mean ">= 123") or freezing it at a particular 123 subversion
<cjwatson> IYSWIM
<bryceh> ok great
<pitti> so why do we need the "-experimental" suffix if we already have a -NNN? am I missing something?
<pitti> I think we do need the -NNN for ensuring that upgrades always reset to the stable one
 * bryceh ponders
<cjwatson> I'm not fussed about -experimental if there's a warning saying as much
<bryceh> there is some messaging value to -experimental, for people who might not read the warning but would see the package name, however technically I don't see any reason to favor that over just -NNN
<bryceh> if it is -NNN then people may expect us to update it with post-release updates of the driver
<bryceh> whereas I'd sort of prefer to be done with the package once the beta is over
<cjwatson> compare gcc-snapshot
<cjwatson> different audience there of course
<pitti> ok, if it's just for the warning effect (not for some dependency magic), I'm fine with that
<bryceh> pitti, fine with that being to keep -experimental or exclude it?
<pitti> bryceh: with either really; I was mostly curious for what exactly we need the -experimental suffix
<pitti> actually
<pitti> it's helpful to have it for ubuntu-drivers-common
<bryceh> ok
<pitti> it currently filters "experimental" on the package name to sort it last in the "recommended version" list
<bryceh> aha, good.
<cjwatson> so, is there any remaining dissent here which we need to vote on, or do you think we're good to go on this?
<pitti> so that it only ever installs that if no other version supports your card
<pitti> do we have consent on the SRU verification? cjwatson's last mail sums it up pretty well IMHO
<cjwatson> ScottK: does this discussion meet the concerns you expressed on the list - that is, weaken handling of hard-to-substantiate regressions (but don't ignore them entirely) for nvidia/fglrx packages where users have previously been warned about potential instability?
<cjwatson> (which is about the best one-sentence summary I can come up with)
<ScottK> cjwatson: I'm concerned that if we make a special rule for unsubstantiated regressions for one package, it'll spread.
<ScottK> I'd much rather say for this one package, a certain degree of regression is OK.
<ScottK> It's a binary blob video driver, so we can't fix it anyway, it's optional, and video drivers very rarely are 100% improvement for alll hardware.
<cjwatson> So you'd rather not include a rationale with the policy in case it's taken as a general example, basically?
<cjwatson> I can live with that.
<pitti> yeah, fine for me as well; if we say "this package will always be the latest beta driver", this states it's very reason of existance, and implicitly contains that it won't stop upgrading
<cjwatson> Or "the latest beta driver in series NNN" or whatever.
<cjwatson> I think I'm happy to leave that part up to the teams dealing with it.
<bryceh> this all sounds great :-)
<cjwatson> OK, let's move on
<cjwatson> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<cjwatson> Edubuntu Sponsorship Process
<cjwatson> Has a couple of +1s although I concur with Mark's comment that this is more a matter for trademark@
<cjwatson> highvoltage: ^- if you feel this needs more, please follow up
<cjwatson> Extension of term lengths - done
<cjwatson> And I don't see anything else of any note
<pitti> neither do I
<pitti> the rest was handled by mail
<Laney> transferring the kernel packageset
<Laney> I didn't see any comment on that in my mail
<Laney> admittedly it was tacked on to the end
<cjwatson> community bugs, just the usual takes-ages-to-resolve
<cjwatson> Laney: URL?
<highvoltage> cjwatson: ah, it's been handled by mail, thanks
<Laney> http://mid.gmane.org/20120827200048.GB14343@orangesquash.org.uk
<Laney> if that works
<highvoltage> (at least, I believe so)
<stgraber> Laney: well, we first need a way of actually doing that ;)
<Laney> that'll be landed soon
<Laney> if changing owner is a part of that branch
<stgraber> not sure what's in the branch, ideally we'd need to have the delete function mapped and make all the attributes read/write
<Laney> so, if you could agree it then someone can JFDI when it becomes possible
<Laney> if this is in that branch then great, otherwise SMOP
<cjwatson> Makes sense to me for DMB to own the kernel set
<cjwatson> Once possible
<cjwatson> If it's urgent for some reason we could try to arrange for manual SQL, but I'd really rather not
<stgraber> nah, not urgent. I'll do any update the DMB needs to do to it as I have both DMB and TB hats.
<cjwatson> OK
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<cjwatson> anything else?  we have three minutes
<bryceh> cjwatson, regarding the nvidia proposals, did the discussion above qualify as a vote or does a formal vote still need to be held?
<cjwatson> AFAICT there was consensus and therefore no need for a vote
<bryceh> awesome, thanks.
<pitti> *agree*
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 17 21:00:50 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-17-20.08.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-17-20.08.html
<cjwatson> Thanks all
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<pitti> and good night
<cjwatson> I'll sort out minutes in a bit
<cjwatson> In a shocking departure from routine
<stgraber> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-18
<Canaimero-15d6> hola canaimeros!8-)
<tumbleweed> stgraber, Laney: yes, it is part of my branch
<hallyn> \o
<jamespage> o/
<hallyn> is jamespage left-handed, or am i seeing the back of his head?
<zul> helo
<utlemming> \o
<smb> o\
<SpamapS> {o}  <-- check out those guns
<hallyn> BEEFCAKE
<SpamapS> follow your dreams
<hallyn> :)
<arosales> hello
<jamespage> Ursinha, around to chair?
<jamespage> hmm - maybe not
<jamespage> jimbaker - how would you like the hotseat this week?
<jimbaker> jamespage, uh, can i pass?
<jimbaker> i was hoping to just listen in a little bit and get some other work done
 * jamespage goes down the list
<jamespage> m_3?
<jamespage> or if not rbasak?
<m_3> jamespage: hi
<m_3> jamespage: reading back-channel one sec
<jamespage> m_3, chair this week?
<m_3> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 18 16:07:37 2012 UTC.  The chair is m_3. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jamespage> +1
<SpamapS> m_3: usually you'll want to name the meeting
<m_3> yeah... so I have _no_ clue what I'm doing
<jamespage> gotta start somewhere....
<SpamapS> m_3: end that meeting..
<m_3> #meetingname server meeting
<meetingology> The meeting name has been set to 'server_meeting'
<SpamapS> m_3: and use the same command, but with 'Server Team' as an arg
<SpamapS> oh
<SpamapS> even better
<SpamapS> hah
 * SpamapS does not RTFM
<jamespage> who does
<zul> never?
<jamespage> ?
<hallyn> neat.  i've never named the meeting.  learned something today.
<arosales> are the commands @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands still correct?
<arosales> I have been trying to keep them updated with my learning experiences :-)
<jamespage> tep
<jamespage> yep
<m_3> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<m_3> ok... anyone?
<arosales> jamespage to look into aligning release team and server team trackign reports
<jamespage> #fail
<arosales> jamespage: keep it on for next week?
<jamespage> still looking in two places this week
<jamespage> yes please
<m_3> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Quantal Development
<m_3> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> #action jamespage to look into aligning release team and server team trackign reports
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to look into aligning release team and server team trackign reports
<m_3> wow, ok beta2 freeze in two days
<jamespage> yep - end of thursday
<jamespage> get those uploads done quick....
<jamespage> actually its normally around 2100 UTC I think
<jamespage> ...
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-12.10-beta-2
<m_3> #subtopic Release Bugs
<m_3> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
 * jamespage picks up
<jamespage> bug 1049305
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049305 in glance (Ubuntu) "package glance-registry 2012.1.3+stable~20120821-120fcf-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: sub-processo script post-installation instalado retornou estado de saÃ­da de erro 1" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049305
<m_3> jamespage: thanks, there're so many
<adam_g> i've tried my best to help reproduce that glance bug (which, if it exists, should trigger easily on pkg install) but i've had no luck at all with it
<jamespage> for future reference its probably worth holding off subing ubuntu-server-release until something is actually confirmed...
<jamespage> IMHO
<adam_g> +1
<jamespage> bug 1049582
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049582 in ceph (Ubuntu) "radosgw crash on armhf architecture" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049582
<jamespage> I hit last week testing rados on armhf
<jamespage> I still need to progress that
<jamespage> hallyn still has bug 1040033 in hand
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040033 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Quantal) "Fresh VM installs via preseeded oneiric isos sometimes fail with filesystem issues" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040033
<hallyn> jamespage: i'm not sure what to do with that
<hallyn> i could ask for massive FFE to get the newest qemu-kvm in the archive...
<hallyn> but i gues si'l lspend the afternoon seeing if i can track down the commit that fixed it
<hallyn> (for the record, newest upstream release fixed the bug)
<hallyn> (obviously, there is no telling how many bugs it introduced)
<hallyn> (though it worked pretty well for me)
<jamespage> hallyn, always tough when there is no obvious fix - good luck
<jamespage> I'm guessing its not impacting huge numbers of people as we don't have lots of dupes...
<SpamapS> hallyn: are there any features in the latest upstream release?
<SpamapS> hallyn: if its just bug fixes, its not really a feature freeze exception :)
<hallyn> SpamapS: well, 6k commits
<SpamapS> lol
<m_3> bug 1046340
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1046340 in ntp (Ubuntu) "ntp package missing logcheck exceptions file /etc/logcheck/ignore.d.server/ntp" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1046340
<SpamapS> have fun w/ that bisect
<hallyn> SpamapS: thanks :)
<hallyn> SpamapS: i think i'll go ask on #ubuntu-release later today
<hallyn> i was waiting for jdstrand to test though
<jamespage> anyone wanna grab that one?  nice easy fix if confirmed?
<jdstrand> this is on my list for today
<hallyn> jdstrand: thanks!
<m_3> cool
<jdstrand> I got sidetracked with backlog and patchpiloting yesterday...
<m_3> do we go through the remaining bugs for other teams or mirs we're tracking?
<m_3> or shall I move on to blueprints?
<jamespage> m_3, not this week - genshi is still blocked upstream and all distros don't have fix yet
<arosales> jamespage: should we review http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html or http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<jamespage> arosales, I don't think we need to this week - I did take a look through prior to the meeting
<m_3> #subtopic Blueprints
<m_3> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ubuntu-server.html
<arosales> jamespage: ok
<jamespage> I still need to complete last weeks action with SpamapS (review juju bugs)
<m_3> so I'll go through the red ones.. starting with: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-security-essential.html
<arosales> m_3: probably just need to hit the ones that have servercloud in the name
<arosales> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-servercloud-overview.html has a shorter list
<m_3> arosales: gotcha... thanks
<m_3> ok, what about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-qa
<arosales> zul: beta2 target still ok for that one?
<jamespage> lots todo in 8 days....
<zul> arosales: i dont think it should be targeted for any release since it doesnt affect the release in anyway (imho)
<m_3> done
<m_3> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-best-practices ?
<arosales> zul: ok, i'll update the milestone to the latest the tool lets me :-)
<SpamapS> zul: it does affect the release because it takes the resources off other things in the release.
<zul> k
<zul> SpamapS:  meaning that folsom is not going to being delayed because we havent done the benchmark for cloud images on openstack
<m_3> charm ratings count for triaging some of this one... impl on the other hand...
<arosales> servercloud-q-juju-charm-best-practices has some remaining todos for jcastro, m_3, SpamapS, and hazmat
<arosales> target 12.10 still ok?
<SpamapS> yeah I think that one was always understood as stuff we would work on throughout the release cycle
<m_3> we can update some of it to postponed
<m_3> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-arm-deployment?
<m_3> rbasak, smoser ?
<rbasak> It's going well now I think
<rbasak> I've started landing fixes in trunk. I expect to take another few weeks to finish everything
<rbasak> smoser is working on ephemeral images for arm
<arosales> rbasak: good to hear :-)
<jamespage> \o/
<m_3> I guess https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-folsom falls into the same category as openstack-qa then
<zul> its going good
<zul> although nova rc1/cinder rc1 has been delayed
<arosales> zul: is that a beta2 target or a ga target, or no of the above :-)
<adam_g> those openstack MIRs
<adam_g> need tracking for release
<zul> quantum MIR is done
 * arosales updates milestone to beta2
<zul> er...nm me
<m_3> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-bug-triage-review ?
<arosales> Ursinha: jamespage: are you guys working on the final bug list for the bug triage process?
 * jamespage #fail
 * m_3 realizes now he should've gone in {priority,red} order
<jamespage> gravity report is still good
<jamespage> but I've failed to catchup with Ursinha - we are good at missing each other
<Ursinha> arosales, I"m constantly working on it :) still have to catch up with jamespage about it thout
<Ursinha> though
<arosales> still a target for 12.10 release?
<jamespage> yeah
<m_3> ok, so what about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-maas-next-steps ?
<arosales> ok, thanks Ursinha and jamespage
<arosales> roaksoax:  here?
<m_3> anything moving on maas other than rbasak's merges?
<arosales> smoser: MAAS next steps ?
<m_3> ok, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charms-release-policy
<smoser> well... we're working on maas next steps :)
<m_3> hmmm... we should work on that one
<m_3> s/work on/update/
<m_3> sorry... jumped the gun... smoser anything else to add on maas?
<smoser> for maas next steps, there is probably some stuff that roaksoax, rbasak and i are spending time on that are not represented there.
<smoser> but ... sure . othe rthan that it seems reasonable.
<m_3> ok, so that brings us to my personal fav https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-unit-tests
<Nikodem153> Hi Ubu Users
<m_3> Nikodem153: hi
<m_3> needs updating/postponing... framework's there, but we need to implement '/tests' in charms
<arosales> smoser: also do you think we should go ahead and postpone https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-powernap-opencompute-integration
<smoser> i think so, yes.
<arosales> smoser: ok
<m_3> anything else to bring up on blueprints?  that covers all the red ones
<Nikodem153> Who is from Poland?
<arosales> thanks for stepping through those m_3 :-)
<jamespage> Nikodem153, this is a specific meeting channel - try #ubuntu
<m_3> there's one yellow essential... https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-cloud-archive
<m_3> ok, moving along...
<m_3> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<SpamapS> ODS is just around the corner in about 1 month
<SpamapS> http://www.openstack.org/summit/san-diego-2012/
<m_3> strata and UDS shortly thereafter
<arosales> jimbaker: presenting at local Big Data meetup
<SpamapS> ALso the SCALE11x CFP is open. Good mid-size conference that has a broad Linux focus.
<m_3> sc2012 is local in november... thinking about that one
<SpamapS> (SCALE is in Los Angeles, so its also a good place to meet cool people like that guy SpamapS)
<SpamapS> http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale11x/
<m_3> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jamespage> psivaa, ping - you are on
<jamespage> psivaa, is covering for hggdh today
<plars> if not, I have something quick
<psivaa> jamespage, yes, we do not have any comments
<m_3> plars: you're on
<plars> related to minimal system requirements for the server images
<plars> previously, 128M has been the stated minimum ram
<plars> but both i386 and amd64 fail to install with that little
<plars> at least on amd64 (unsure about i386 at the moment) we can install with 256, but still get lots of OOMs
<rbasak> I think I observed that recently
<plars> additionally
<plars> it's been stated as recently as 12.04 that 1G is sufficient for all tasks installed
<jamespage> plars, for server?
<plars> on amd64 at least, 1G is sufficient for base system with no tasks, and leaves you with about 40M (!) left at the end, but only if you manually partition and use no swap (all 1G for /)
<plars> jamespage: yes
<jamespage> 1G of storage?
<jamespage> sorry - I think I missed the switch from RAM->DISK
 * jamespage <- asker of dumb questions today
<plars> for reference, I'm looking at https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/preparing-to-install.html for guidance about 500M being sufficient for base install and 1G for all tasks
<jamespage> meh - give me an action to review that please m_3
<plars> the background is that I'm working on setting up a daily test that checks image installation against minimum system requirements
<plars> and if the increase is intentional, fine, it's just a documentation fix
<m_3> #action jamespage look into running server with no elbow-room
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage look into running server with no elbow-room
<plars> otherwise this could be something you want to address soon
<plars> +1 for elbows :)
<m_3> plars: yes, thanks!
<jamespage> plars, minimal virtual install is about ~680MB
<jamespage> on amd64 so its possible
<hallyn> it'd be worth making sure there's no obvious savings to be had
<plars> jamespage: at least recently, selecting no tasks on a server iso install gets me to about 1G used post-install
<plars> I haven't tried today's image, but maybe... 2 days ago at the most?
<jamespage> OK _ leave it with me - I'll pick this up
<m_3> cool... anything else for QA team?
<jamespage> sounds wrong at both ends - to big install and to low specs
<hallyn> thx jamespage
<plars> not from me
<arosales> #action jamespage to investigate minimum memory requirements for i386 and amd64 server installs
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to investigate minimum memory requirements for i386 and amd64 server installs
<hallyn> thx plars :)
<m_3> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Hi, I was on vacation last week (in case I was missed), so there is not much to report from that. One question though about running Ubuntu in the cloud: is the target only server guests or desktop guests, too. Asking because the dropping of unity2d together with the current state of things (which makes me weep a lot) is not really ...err... optimal.
<plars> oh, one more reference point because it just finished... current i386 server image uses 809M post-install with no tasks selected <done>
<arosales> smb: utlemming and smoser can confirm but I think the main target is guests although I think we still have desktop images for EC2
<m_3> smb: excellent point... I'm sure _somebody_ somewhere'll wanna run desktop
<arosales> for other clouds, ie hp, or azure the only target available is for guests. Again utlemming or smoser please correct me, if I am mistaken
<smb> Yeah, I though it might be mainly server guest. Just wanted to raise the topic here to give awareness that this is not looking good right now
<utlemming> the dropping of unity2d will affect the EC2 desktop images
<smoser> target is server.
<smoser> and, yes, smb dropping of unity2d would is detrimental to any "cloud" desktop
<utlemming> but the EC2 desktop images are not supported. They are provided as is.
<Nikodem153> http://iv.pl/viewer.php?file=28328845554698490564.jpg
<smoser> although spice would potentially bring that back with unity 3d i think
<smb> xen will see an x crash all the time, kvm will get that about half the time and if it works is using lots of cpu and is slow...
 * m_3 pause a moment to pay respects to unity-2d... sniff
<smoser> smb, yeah, its going to stink.
<smoser> utlemming, hm..
<arosales> smoser: utlemming: if indeed 2d gets dropped how should EC2 desktop images proceed?
<smoser> i think though that the cloud-desktiop images for quantal are then affected
<smoser> i believe they add the unity-2d task?
<smoser> if they have a task that is no longer supported or available, clearly we should pull that out.
<smb> afaik, there isn't any 2d anymore, its all done via sw rendering
<SpamapS> does llvm work w/ vnc?
<smoser> i'm not sure what to replace it with, though.
<utlemming> that's what I was going to ask
<utlemming> smb, smoser: lets table this, and I'll take this as action for next week
<m_3> #action utlemming what to do with desktop cloud images without unity-2d
<meetingology> ACTION: utlemming what to do with desktop cloud images without unity-2d
<utlemming> I think that this needs to be investigated. I believe the RDP server is an option. But llvm-pipe plays into this dicussion as well.
<smb> utlemming, Ok, yeah. I did not expect any result here. Just that we all know and are prepared
<utlemming> smb: right. I was planning on playing with it. You beat me to the punch
<SpamapS> 1 minute
<SpamapS> time to wrap up
<smb> utlemming, Just because of bug 1038055
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1038055 in linux (Ubuntu) "graphics fail to initialise correctly, in kvm with cirrus graphics (after LUKS install)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038055
<arosales> do we know if a lot of folks are using the desktop cloud image <â question for another day
<m_3> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Working on MAAS on ARM is progressing well, although it is still very tight for 12.10. Any questions for me?
<m_3> nope... ok
<m_3> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<jamespage> ...
<SpamapS> ***
<m_3> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> Tuesday 2012-09-25 at 1600 UTC
<m_3> same bat-time/channel
<m_3> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 18 17:01:23 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-18-16.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-18-16.07.html
<m_3> whew
<arosales> thanks m_3 for chairing!
<m_3> sorry for the hiccups
<jimbaker> m_3, good job
<jamespage> thanks m_3
<arosales> m_3:  well done
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 18 17:01:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<herton> o/
<cking> \o/
<kamal> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: a new Q/omap4 3.5 kernel is out (3.5.0-210.16) and it contains:
<ppisati> * fixes for the video/unity flicker bug
<ppisati> * an updated kernel based on Ubuntu-3.5.0-14.16
<ppisati> Working on restoring rtc/mfd_palmas functionalities at the moment.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.10-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-2 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have uploaded the 3.5.0-15.20 Quantal kernel.  This upload most
<ogasawara> notably contains an update to the v3.5.4 upstream stable kernel,
<ogasawara> eCryptfs bug fixes, and haswell graphics support patches.  This has also
<ogasawara> been uploaded to the q-lts-backport [1] PPA to help facilitate testing
<ogasawara> of the 12.10 kernel in 12.04.  We welcome anyone to please install,
<ogasawara> test, and let us know your feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Sept 20 - Beta 2 Freeze (~2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Sept 27 - Beta 2 (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Oct 4 - Kernel Freeze (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2012-09-18 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 76 CVEs on our radar, with 1 CVE added this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (September 18):
<henrix>  * Hardy - Nothing in this cycle
<henrix>  * Lucid - In -updates; 3 CVEs; (9 commits)
<henrix>  * Natty - In -updates; 4 CVEs; (9 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In -updates; 2 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (67 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Testing; 2 CVEs; 1 upstream stable release(s); (66 commits)
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix> NOTE: this is the *last* Natty kernel being built.
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<kamal> o/
<jsalisbury> kamal, go
<kamal> ogasawara: will quantal be rebased to v3.6?  when?
<ogasawara> kamal: no, it'll stay on 3.5
<kamal> ogasawara: ok, thanks.    ..
<jsalisbury> Any other discussion or questions?
<ogasawara> kamal: if there's anything in v3.6 that you need, send us some patches :)
<kamal> ogasawara: oh, I will be!  ;-)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> Anything else today?
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 18 17:07:05 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-18-17.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-18-17.01.html
<sconklin> jsalisbury: thanks
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<Dick67> Bonsoir Ã  tous !
<Dick67> il y a personne ?
<highvoltage> essayer #ubuntu-fr
<YoBoY> Dick67, encore trop tÃ´t
<Dick67> Ã§a commence Ã  quel heure ?
<quesh> Dick67: c'est Ã  22h00
<Dick67> ok Merci
<olive> (heure de paris)
<YoBoY> quesh, 21H
<YoBoY> non ?
<YoBoY> ha non 22 autant pour moi
<olive> au temps
<huats> :)
<elfabixx> Ohai !
<czajkowski> aloha
<YoBoY> Bonsoir :)
<elfabixx> YoBoY:  salut !
<cm-t> Bonsoir :)
<BlackEco> hello
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 18 20:01:42 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<olive> hello
<czajkowski> aloha and welcome to the September Loco council meeting
<winael> hello
<itnet7> Hey there everyone!
<czajkowski> LoCo Council please say hi :)
<elfabixx> Hi all !
<McPeter> hello
<xdatap1> hi everybody
* czajkowski changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu-Fr Re approval
<quesh> hello
<niko> hi there
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam/ApprovalApplication2012
<piti> hello there
<czajkowski> wow
<LeMiasme> Hi yall
<SwordArMor> Hello
<BlackEco> good evening
<YoBoY> hi everyone :)
<czajkowski> impressive wiki
<czajkowski> so who from France is going to lead us
<olive> thanks czajkowski :)
<cm-t> hi
<winael> thx czajkowski
<cm-t> tanks thanks
<huats> hello there too :)
<elfabixx> czajkowski:  I'm french
<LeMiasme> French here too
<McPeter> +1
<olive> +1
<huats> french too :)
<niko> +1
<quesh> +1
<cm-t> I ll be our  lecturer
<czajkowski> we're not ready to vote yet
<czajkowski> eager :)
<itnet7> :-)
<winael> French +1
<czajkowski> cm-t: hey so care to tell us about the French loco
<czajkowski> how things are done
<czajkowski> issues you've come up against
<czajkowski> how are things
<czajkowski> :)
<BlackEco> french too
<cm-t> the think are done fine :)
<cm-t> things *
<Zic> French too o/
<spineaker> o/
<cm-t> do you have any question about our applicationÂ ?
<czajkowski> so how has the french loco coped over the last 2 years ( anyone can answer)
<olive> c'est pas faux
<yougg> French+1
<cm-t> ( in english olive :) )
<olive> cm-t: so, answer before me
<BlackEco> *before I do
<czajkowski> cm-t: the application is impressive.
<cm-t> so we are done 2 years, with many event all over the France, we try to find new way to catch new people to ubuntu
<czajkowski> cm-t: so how do you get people involved in the loco, it's rather large
<cm-t> we focused a lot to get new people as user, and as you espected well, now we need to focus to grow our community
<itnet7> Very nice job on giving all of the details on the wiki
<czajkowski> xdatap1: any questions
<olive> we organize great and big events to attract many volounteers
<xdatap1> czajkowski, I'm just amazed by their wiki page.
<itnet7> ditto
<YoBoY> (and there is so much more to put on this pageâ¦ ^^")
<czajkowski> so opening up to anyone YoBoY piti anyone have any comments on the French loco ?
<YoBoY> yes, we can do much better
<cm-t> oh yes YoBoY :)
<czajkowski> YoBoY: so how do you think the loco will grow in next 2 years
<czajkowski> Also can the LC help in any way
<YoBoY> like lot of locos we have to focus on recruitement of new contributors
<olive> we have to expand our Fetivals activity
<Trium> o/
<YoBoY> I think the loco can have more event orginizers
<olive> Festivals*
<czajkowski> Can I ask does the looc know about the greater ubuntu community ? or is it all focused in France?
<olive> We have to rebuilt our big website
<YoBoY> they know we are a big community inside the awesome ubuntu community ;)
<olive> Ubuntu-fr is focused on French speaking Countries :) not only France
<cm-t> we are mostly France based, but we try to be french speaking
<cm-t> olive:  :)
<czajkowski> so I just have one comment, and then we can go to votes
<czajkowski> Team reports.........
<quesh> one of our goals is to develop French spoken countries
<czajkowski> am I missing the link somewhere in the application
<YoBoY> stoped between august 2011 and may 2012, started again
<czajkowski> YoBoY: you know my love for them
<YoBoY> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam/TeamReports/
<olive> French people are very bad to write english.
<czajkowski> olive: you know I dont mind if they are in french
<czajkowski> I can use google translate
<YoBoY> czajkowski, yes I know you love team reports :)
<czajkowski> maybe this is something we can better communicate to all teams
<czajkowski> ok so in 2 years time can I see 2 years worth of team reports :D
<czajkowski> please
<YoBoY> we can try, not easy to find someone to write them :]
<czajkowski> #voters itnet7 czajkowski xdatap1
<meetingology> Current voters: czajkowski itnet7 xdatap1
<olive> if team report can be in french, no problem.
<YoBoY> olive, they can
<olive> so, no problem.
<czajkowski> #vote please vote on the re approval of France loCo
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on the re approval of France loCo
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<czajkowski> +1 fantastic application, bring on the team reports!
<meetingology> +1 fantastic application, bring on the team reports! received from czajkowski
<winael> we can try to translate it with google translate by ourself too :)
<guest2435> +1
<itnet7> Very, Very good Application, and Awesome Job!!
<czajkowski> guest2435: only loco council can vote
<xdatap1> +1 keep up the good work
<meetingology> +1 keep up the good work received from xdatap1
<czajkowski> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on the re approval of France loCo
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<olive> winael: like these application wiki :)
<czajkowski> huzzah!
<yougg> +1
<quesh> +1
<YoBoY> thanks everyone :)
<huats> thanks !
<olive> thanks cm-t
<cm-t> thanks you :)
<winael> thanks everybody
<czajkowski> #action czajkowski update the LP team for france expiration date
<McPeter> many thanks
<meetingology> ACTION: czajkowski update the LP team for france expiration date
<olive> thanks czajkowski and others :)
<czajkowski> thank you all for coming
<huats> thanks cm-t, and everyone for took part of it !
<quesh> :)
<czajkowski> well done!
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 18 20:22:17 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-18-20.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-18-20.01.html
<cm-t> thanks you all helped on that short wiki application
<czajkowski> huats: please update out wiki page and team report :)
<YoBoY> and congrats French LoCoTeam :D
<cm-t> next time we give more details
<czajkowski> huats: only fair :)
<huats> and thanks to my fellow LC member (especially xdatap1 who change his vote to be able to come back visit Milo :))
<winael> \o/ Congrats everybody
<xdatap1> huats, LOL
<YoBoY> by the way https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam/ApprovalApplication << for the record, the "global" approval page can be used for links or whatever
<quesh> c'est bon, la rÃ©union est finie, on peut parler franÃ§ais
<quesh> :)
<LeMiasme> Ben c'est passÃ© vite
<huats> please guys let's speak in English here
<huats> :)
<niko> huats: :)
<olive> bon ils sont oÃ¹ @vancouver lÃ 
<lifeless> j'ne parlaiz voz francais
<YoBoY> olive, try on their chan
<lifeless> or something
<cm-t> eheh, @vancouver are on party !
<czajkowski> lifeless: evening
<lifeless> czajkowski: o/
<olive> ubuntu-fr IS the party
<olive> ahah!
<czajkowski> huats: itnet7 I'll go and update our bugs with the rest of the locoteams due to expire by end of october
<BlackEco> thanks!
<huats> czajkowski: ok thanks
<cm-t> party !
<McPeter> open beer
<BlackEco> Lets get laid =D
<BlackEco> Damn, I have to go to bed T.T
<cm-t> bonne nuit BlackEco
<BlackEco> merci, vous aussi
<BlackEco> et bravo pour le boulot
<winael> goodnight BlackEco
<olive> et sinon c'est quand la question sur les graphs qui se cassent la gueule ?
<olive> bon ok.
<cm-t> pas faux
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-19
<Nikodem153> hi
 * Nikodem153 's listening Levels(SKRILLEX REMIX) by Avicii
<smartboyhw> Meeting in 5 minutes... balloons is chair I think
 * balloons waves
<balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA Community
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 19 14:00:37 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Community Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> alright, roll call time
<balloons> i'll raise my own hand :-)
<smartboyhw> \o
<phillw> \o
<balloons> \o
<smartboyhw> Who is on the namelist?
<smartboyhw> Oh sorry:)
<xnox> \o
<balloons> alright, we shall dive into the agenda
<smartboyhw> :)
<balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Community Meeting | Current topic:  Previous Actions
<balloons> ACTION: balloons to follow-up with ubuntu-qa website changes
<balloons> I actually have news on this. We can change the theme in launchpad, and the admin will redploy
<njin> \Ã²
<smartboyhw> Yeah
<balloons> sadly I can't get the update I want for wordpress, but this will still work
<balloons> It's on my to-do list, but volunteers are welcome to pitch in here
<smartboyhw> wordpress?
<balloons> need to be able to use lp and bzr.. the change is basic html
<smartboyhw> I donÂ´t understand balloons
<balloons> smartboyhw, wordpress is a the engine running the site
<smartboyhw> OK I get it
<smartboyhw> phillw can do that I think
<balloons> ACTION: balloons to fix regex on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
 * smartboyhw is not using any ubuntu system for now...
<balloons> That's done, regex is all fixed up now
<phillw> i saw, thanks :)
<balloons> I believe that's it for previous actions
<smartboyhw> Thx
<balloons> anything else?
<TheLordOfTime> \o
<TheLordOfTime> (late attendance)
<smartboyhw> ThatÂ´s a lot of people today
<balloons> ok, moving on to more exciting things
<smartboyhw> :)
<balloons> [TOPIC]  Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Community Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<balloons> the big excitement this week is the testcase work going on
<smartboyhw> Is it that Beta 2 Freeze and DocumentationStringFreeze is tmr?
<balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/QuantalTestcaseUpdates
<balloons> the goal is to have the testcases for flavors and other leftover tests all pushed into the tracker this week
<balloons> in support of the efforts, a new version of the tracker with some nice improvements is also landing
<balloons> it will have collapsible testcases, date filtering for reports, and will allow us to use variables in our testcases to support multiple flavors better
<balloons> beta2 testing will be next week, and as mentioned, the doc and string freeze along with beta2 freeze is happening tomorrow
<balloons> I would expect the first candidate images this Friday/Monday for beta2 as usual
<balloons> after the beta2 release, the RC (and testing!) comes quickly so get ready
<balloons> Also, I sent some things to the list about new stuff landing in quantal
<balloons> new dash's, new beta drivers for graphics and some other things.. read the archives if your interested in seeing what's still trickling in :-)
<balloons> any questions or further comments on what's going on in ubuntu?
<smartboyhw> len-dt: \o
<smartboyhw> Sorry
<smartboyhw> I want to \o and accidentally pinged one of the Studio guys
<smartboyhw> balloons: Have question
<balloons> smartboyhw, go ahead
<smartboyhw> Migration of legacy testcases to isotracker testcases
<smartboyhw> Does that mean only changing words which are Â¨UbuntuÂ¨ or Â¨XubuntuÂ¨ to like Â¨Ubuntu StudioÂ¨?
<smartboyhw> ..
<balloons> smartboyhw, no you don't need to change the testcase for something so simple
<smartboyhw> balloons: So what exactly does Migration of legacy testcases to isotracker testcases mean?
<balloons> the new version of the tracker is allowing us to use a variable to replace the 'ubuntu' string
<balloons> so what you can do is simply create a testsuite for ubuntu studio, and assign the needed testcases to it
<balloons> let's take a look quickly as an example
<smartboyhw> Ah that is easy, so I do it in the sandbox?
<balloons> so ubuntu studio only releases dvd's
<balloons> and there are 2 testcases
<smartboyhw> Yes only
<smartboyhw> Uh huh
<balloons> you need to create a testsuite and add those 2 testcases to it
<smartboyhw> In sandbox or real ISO tracker?
<balloons> then I'll assign the testsuite to ubuntu studio and you'll be set
<balloons> you'll need to do it on prod, obviously, once your ready
 * smartboyhw now goes doing it
<balloons> ok, anything else?
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Community Meeting | Current topic:  Other topics
<balloons> Ok, we do have a few items to discuss under other topics
<balloons> First up is the update-manager bug -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1046563
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1046563 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager never appears on lubuntu precise" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<balloons> I've seen the bug firsthand. We'll need to chat with michael voigt or someone else who understands the update-manager in more detail
<phillw> thanks, it is an issue if peoplel are not getting things like security updates.
<balloons> if anyone is familar with python, I don't think debugging it would be *that* hard.. I have played around with it before, but sadly I don't know any specific debugging techniques
<balloons> phillw, ohh.. yes, look, it affects precise
<balloons> I didn't realize that
<phillw> yeah, after putting in 12.04.1 stuff on.
<balloons> in that case, I would push it up through lubuntu channels to your security contacts if possible
<phillw> Julien is on a well earned vacation, so we're a bit on the ground a.t.m.
<phillw> *bit thin*
<balloons> if we can confirm it's that serious and affecting precise, I'll work with your right after this to push it harder
 * balloons thought it was a quantal bug
<phillw> no such luck :(
<balloons> [TOPIC] Power PC fail to build
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Community Meeting | Current topic:  Power PC fail to build
<bikefridaywalter> yay :(
<smartboyhw> ...
<phillw> o/
<balloons> ok, so I've heard some success and some failure, but there certainly are some powerpc bugs affecting some lubuntu users
<balloons> phillw, go ahead
<phillw> Adam has spent quite some time herding bugs into some sort of reason so that they can be followed. As I only got that email about 6 hours ago, I've replied asking him to give some additional guidance to the L-QA ppc testers.
<phillw> you will see his name crawling on the bugs.
<phillw> (ojordan)
<bikefridaywalter> of course with oversized images that makes for certain difficulties: (
<balloons> yes, I too heard from Adam
<balloons> on the oversized images issue, yea, it's common during the cycle
<balloons> I simply use usb nowadays
<balloons> I understand ppc is a bit trickier
<phillw> bikefridaywalter: as I replied in the mailing list, the issue is discussed on the PPC-FAQ area. let me get the link for you.
<phillw> bikefridaywalter: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ
<bikefridaywalter> it is very unreliable with openfirmware. i have tried for years to make it work right with no success
<phillw> both how to shrink an iso, and how to get usb to work.
<bikefridaywalter> the usb is not 100% with that or any process but ill try shrinking
<phillw> bikefridaywalter: it is certainly worth a try, those were the suggestions from Adam.
<phillw> I'll be sending an email to L-QA about the areas that Adam raised with me.
<phillw> ..
<balloons> thank you phillw and bikefridaywalter
<balloons> [TOPIC] Testcase Admins Team sandbox and mailing list discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Community Meeting | Current topic:  Testcase Admins Team sandbox and mailing list discussion
<balloons> ok, smartboyhw requested we bring up the idea of another mailing list for the admin team
<balloons> fyi for others; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/TestCaseAdmins
<phillw> o/
<balloons> go ahead phillw
<phillw> is the test case admin team expected to generate so much mail? I'd think something similar that is used my L-QA, where PPC has PPC in the subject line so those not interested don't need to read it and use our current QA mailing list so any one interested in test cases can see what & where we are upto.
<phillw> s/my/by
<balloons> phillw, I agree.. I'd really rather avoid specific mailing lists for things
<smartboyhw> Agree!
<balloons> njin, smartboyhw, elfy thoughts/
<smartboyhw> \o
<elfy> extra m/l seems a bit like just having a m/l so there's a m/l - I'd concur with phillw's thoughts
<njin> balloons, we have a new hard tester, sandra farnedi is back
<balloons> ok, sounds like we'll keep things as is.. If you need to get in touch, use the ubuntu-qa mailing list and consider putting a [testcase-admin] header in the subject line
<smartboyhw> OK:)
<smartboyhw> \o
<balloons> ok, that's all we have for scheduled topics.. feel free to raise anything additional now
<smartboyhw> \o
<balloons> njin, go ahead -- who is this new tester
<balloons> one sec smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> Sorry
<njin> She's sandra, https://launchpad.net/~sandra-farnedi-d
<balloons> njin, excellent
<balloons> I assume you'll get her up to speed :-)
<balloons> go ahead smartboyhw
<njin> she was a teacher
<njin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~sandra-farnedi-d/+reportedbugs
<smartboyhw> OK my turn
<smartboyhw> Been a bit worried in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/QuantalTestcaseUpdates
<smartboyhw> balloons: When is the deadline for distro specific testcases?
<balloons> smartboyhw, no deadline.. just future work on that
<smartboyhw> ..
<balloons> it's up to the flavors if they want to do it at all
<balloons> I don't drive your schedules :-)
<balloons> ok, anyone else have anything they wish to ask or bring up?
<balloons> a question, comment, etc? :-)
<smartboyhw> balloons\o
<smartboyhw> One more questino
<smartboyhw> *question
<balloons> go ahead smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> Back in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/QuantalTestcaseUpdates
<smartboyhw> As I recall Mythbuntu is an LTS->LTS release.
<smartboyhw> So balloons you may just go and delete the item for ISOTracker testcase for Mythbuntu in Beta 2 secion
<smartboyhw> *section
<smartboyhw> ..
<balloons> thanks smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> NP:)
<balloons> ok, if no one has anything else, we're done for today
<balloons> thanks for attending everyone!
<balloons> and as always happy testing!
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 19 14:52:36 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-19-14.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-19-14.00.html
<balloons> phillw, let's chat about your security bug in #ubuntu-testing
<smartboyhw> Thanks balloons
<stokachu> o/
<stokachu> \o\
<stokachu> /o/
<jodh> stokachu: you've been practising... is that YMCA or "TIE-fighter on manoeuvres  :)
<stokachu> haha
<stokachu> depends on how much i've had to drink
<cjwatson> ok, sorry, bit behind, one sec
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 19 15:06:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjwatson> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e barry bdmurray cjwatson ev doko ogra jodh stgraber xnox stokachu)
<cjwatson> jodh doko stgraber cjwatson ogra barry ev bdmurray xnox stokachu
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Out Friday (at LegoLand! Now proud owner of a Lego Stormtrooper
<jodh>     keyring ;-)
<jodh>   - Patch piloting on Monday.
<jodh> * boot/upstart: stateful-reexec: Lots of progress:
<jodh>   - merged lp:~cjwatson/upstart/stateful-reexec-ptrace.
<jodh>   - Fixed string handling to use JSON null which squashes a number of
<jodh>     bugs.
<jodh>   - Fixed argument handling to avoid any possibility of argument
<jodh>     exhaustion for repeated re-execs.
<jodh>   - Wrote a lot of test support code to allow all serialised object
<jodh>     types to be "diffed".
<jodh>   - Wrote a few basic tests for Session, Process, Event, Log, Job and JobClass.
<jodh>   - Fixed initctl test to avoid sending Upstart SIGTERM (to avoid re-exec! ;-)
<jodh>   - Sent patch to man-pages project for ptrace(2):
<jodh>     http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.man/3163
<jodh>   - Currently finishing a trick Log test.
<jodh> * Plan:
<jodh>   - Continue to write tests.
<jodh>   - Rework state-passing code to handle failure scenarios better.
<jodh>   - Attempt to add temporary D-Bus connection handling code (until D-Bus
<jodh>     itself offers this facility) and/or tweak bridges to auto-reconnect.
<jodh>   - Build an updated package and put out further call for testers.
<jodh> Ü«
<cjwatson> jodh: so I don't think an FFe was ever filed for stateful-reexec - what's the plan regarding stateful-reexec and quantal (is there one?)
<cjwatson> and if so what do we need to do in the next ~week to get it landed?
<doko> stgraber, go ahead before me
<stgraber> doko: ok
<stgraber>  - ISO tracker
<stgraber>    - Added time based filtering to /history view and some reports
<stgraber>    - Added a new flag to mark images that are no longer available for download (bug 969291)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 969291 in Ubuntu QA Website "Check availability of images on cdimage.ubuntu.com" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969291
<stgraber>    - Wrote python script to populate the new available-for-download flag
<stgraber>    - Made testcase collapsible and collapsed by default (bug 1050483)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1050483 in Ubuntu QA Website "Testcases are large and hide the testcase submission form" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050483
<jodh> I need to discuss with Steve. There is a view that it may not need one as it's a "bug" that Upstart never had such support :)
<stgraber>    - Implemented new FAMILY placeholder (bug 1050489)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1050489 in Ubuntu QA Website "Add support for $product inside testcases" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050489
<stgraber>  - Container
<stgraber>    - LXC SRU verification in precise-proposed
<stgraber>    - Upstream work, reviewing patches, maintaining staging branch
<stgraber>  - Release
<stgraber>    - A few FFe/UIFe reviews
<stgraber>  - Networking
<stgraber>    - Merged and uploaded ifupdown 0.7.2 (bugfix release)
<stgraber>    - Prepared isc-dhcp SRU, currently going through some testing in my PPA (bug 974284, bug 1049177, bug 727837)
<stgraber>  - Installer
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974284 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Precise) "invoking dhclient3 with -1 causes issue if no dhcp server available" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974284
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049177 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Precise) "isc-dhcp-server apparmor profile should have include ".d" " [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049177
<stgraber>    - Fixed ubiquity failing to talk to an existing firefox (bug 446679)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 727837 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Precise) "dhcp3-server fails to drop privileges properly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727837
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446679 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Release Notes can't be opened when Firefox is already running." [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446679
<stgraber>    - Uploaded a new ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (translations and last minutes changes for xubuntu and edubuntu)
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>    - Reviewed and uploaded dpkg to lucid-proposed (bug 624877)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 624877 in linux (Ubuntu) "INFO: task dpkg:23317 blocked for more than 120 seconds." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/624877
<stgraber>    - Reviewed Michael Hall's wiki page on known issues with using /opt for extra apps
<stgraber>  - TODO
<stgraber>    - Test and upload isc-dhcp. Just noticed that my fix for bug 727837 doesn't completely work, working on something better now...
<stgraber>    - Finish ISO tracker work for 12.10 and get IS to roll out the changes before beta2 testing begins
<stgraber>    - Start looking at foundations-q-autocreate-preseed
<stgraber> (DONE)
<doko> - fix openjdk-7 backport for precise
<doko> - ubuntu+1 maintenance, nbs now clean, component mismatches incompletes pending only
<doko> - started fixing x86 build failures in universe
<doko> - started looking to rebuild packages not yet built in quantal
<doko> - investigated and fixed kernel boot issue, caused by gcc-4.7, updated packages
<doko> - python updates
<doko> (done)
<cjwatson> Deployed initial Python port of cdimage.  Still a number of scripts to port.
<cjwatson> Packaged GRUB 2.00.  Several follow-up fixes (including bug 1050774 and bug 1051154).  Looks reasonably OK now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1050774 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "os-prober misparses GRUB 2.00 configuration, leading to arbitrarily-long grub.cfg output lines" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050774
<cjwatson> Patch pilot.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1051154 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "mdraid1x core image too large for minimal MBR?" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051154
<cjwatson> Fixed a haphazard collection of software-properties and aptdaemon bugs.
<cjwatson> Fixed ubiquity failure to bind-mount /run while running grub-installer, causing an apparent resolver failure (bug 1047550).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1047550 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Resolver configuration goes wrong while trying to install grub-efi-amd64 during installation" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1047550
<cjwatson> Chaired TB meeting.
<cjwatson> Worked on finishing off LP process-accepted-bugs-job branch.  Still in progress.
<cjwatson> Lots of installer translation updates.
<cjwatson> To do soon: verify apt SRU, switch to new archive signing key, sort out remaining LP UEFI bugs.
<cjwatson> ..
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * flash-kernel hiding boot devices post install uploaded
<ogra_>  * still researching d-i issues with omap4 server installs
<ogra_>  * tested new kernel with omap4 images
<ogra_>  * more work on lshw
<ogra_>  * got my zatab for edubuntu stuff (allwinner a10)
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * wikipages
<ogra_>  * finish d-i input and framebuffer isssues on panda
<ogra_>  * prepare beta2 images
<ogra_>  * research if we cant speed up booting on the pandas before final
<ogra_> ..
<barry> python issue 15906 (argparse regression); bug 1050071 (thank you cjwatson!); researching bindtextdomain() in glade issue - you must use locale.bindtextdomain() because you need to make the change in both the python layer and the C layer; updated the py3 spreadsheet for rocky raccoon; debian bug 685167 (py3clean is too greedy); the usual gwibber py3 port; done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1050071 in computer-janitor (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Remove Computer Janitor from the archive" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050071
<ubottu> Debian bug 685167 in python3 "py3clean removes *.pyc of foreign packages" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/685167
<cjwatson> rocky raccoon> we don't actually have an announced name yet, do we?
<barry> no, i'm just anticipating the obvious, right?! :)
 * xnox uses rancid raccoon, but the animal choice is clear now
<ogra_> racoons ++
<bdmurray> is ev not here?
<cjwatson> I'll ask Rick
<ev> hi
<stokachu> rascally rhInO
<ev> can we loop back for me?
<ev> still typing
<barry> randy raven?
<stokachu> that a wrestler?
<bdmurray> patch pilot
<bdmurray> precise SRU preparation of bug 1007637
<bdmurray> researched bug 1049223 regarding empty dpkgterminallog files
<bdmurray> working on fixing bug 1039484
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1007637 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "ubuntu general hook should check to see if package install failure has already happened" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007637
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049223 in apport (Ubuntu) "package install failures with uninformative dpkgterminallog files" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049223
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039484 in python-apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "Accents in sources.list breaks do-release-upgrade" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039484
<bdmurray> review of package to team mapping for foundation's packages
<bdmurray> set up auto updating of package to team mapping
<bdmurray> testing bugpatterns using quantal (does not work)
<bdmurray> rls-q-tracking bug triage
<bdmurray> tested bug 1045201
<bdmurray> tested bug 946406
<bdmurray> irc discussion regarding errors.ubuntu.com and create bug vs link bug
<bdmurray> debugging bug 346386 with ursula who encountered it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1045201 in update-manager (Ubuntu Quantal) "quantal ubuntu-server isos include cdromupgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045201
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946406 in casper (Ubuntu Quantal) "suspect race condition Keyboard layout, oem-config not set on persistent USB image" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946406
<bdmurray> .. done ..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346386 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "[MASTER] Update fails with invalid package files with "Encountered a section with no Package: header"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346386
<xnox> * rls-q-tracking:
<xnox>  - uploaded fix for autofs bug #488696 with help from mjt
<xnox> * ubiquity:
<xnox>  - committed bugfix for bug #1052040 which I believe should also
<xnox>  resolve bug #1008717 will comment on that bug asking to reproduce
<xnox>  with recent images after next ubiquity upload.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488696 in autofs5 (Ubuntu Precise) "syntax error in nsswitch config near [ syntax error ]" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488696
<xnox>  - committed bugfix for bug #1048464 and other smaller refactoring
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1052040 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[regression] [UIFe] ubiquity greeter does not have overlay scrollbars in quantal, but it did in precise" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052040
<xnox>  commits.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1008717 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Ubiquity displays scrollbars inside of slideshow" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1008717
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1048464 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) ""Edit partition" dialog uses the same title as "Create partition"" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048464
<xnox>  - manual crypto partitioning in lp:~xnox/ubiquity/adv-crypto and the
<xnox>  FFe & UIFe bug #1042649. UIFe granted by documentation team, FFe is
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1042649 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[FFe] [UIFe] Manual Partitioning Crypt" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1042649
<xnox>  not granted yet. Laney from release team, had reservations due to
<xnox>  beta1 respin history and therefore abstained from processing the FFe.
<xnox>  - progressing with manual lvm partitioning (planning to finish in a
<xnox>  branch this week)
<xnox> ..
<stokachu> - bug 1013798 - haven't had time to spend on this regression. easily reproducible, however, may need some guidance. who's the best pers\
<stokachu> on to talk about about this particular library?
<stokachu> - bug 988055 - need to setup and reproduce, valgrind shows memory leaks wrt credential re/initialization, tried a upstream patch that a\
<stokachu> ddresses it, however, customer still sees a continual rize in vmrss (~4kb).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1013798 in libgcrypt11 (Ubuntu) "Blink SIP client segfaults with libgcrypt11 1.5.0-3ubuntu0.1" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013798
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 988055 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu) "rpc.gssd memory leak" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/988055
<stokachu> - finish up getting precise diffs for the multi-arch packages that made it into quantal.
<stokachu> ...
<ev> - Trying to untangle the mess that is top-k for arbitrary date ranges in the
<ev>   most common problems table:
<ev>   https://bugs.launchpad.net/daisy/+bug/1052954
<ev>   Rob has been helping, but I've got a lot more research to do.
<ev> - Finished off the Cassandra authentication work and handed it over to webops:
<ev>   https://portal.admin.canonical.com/55226
<ev> - Long fight of unicode issues in apport-retrace (python3) and Cassandra. It
<ev>   took a few tries, but I think we've finally got it all working.
<ev> - Taught daisy.ubuntu.com to attach the full submitted report to the OOPS when
<ev>   one is generated. This let me get to the bottom of why we were seeing
<ev>   timeouts throughout the day - we were trying to write massive kernel crashes
<ev>   into the database.
<ev> - Filtered out kernel crashes from daisy, as we don't yet have a way of
<ev>   retracing these. We increment a counter to help determine how much time we
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1052954 in Daisy "top-k for arbitrary ranges is complex" [Undecided,New]
<ev> oh!
<ev> and taught errors.ubuntu.com to asynchronously load the color information for the most common problems table
<ev> so you no longer have to use launchpad=false
<ev> and it should all load much quicker
<ev> (done for reals)
<stokachu> greenlets?
<ev> stokachu: god no - javascript
<stokachu> lol ah
<stgraber> ev: you cut at "We increment a counter to help determine how much time we"
<ev> I'd rather not touch that monkey-patching nightmare
<ev> grrr
<ev> [16:16:43] <ev>  should invest in this in the future though.
 * ogra_ hugs ev
<ev> :)
<ogra_> now *that* was short ... this weeks release team summary will be a pleasure :)
<ev> soz, unicode and adding the submitted crash to the oops ate up a lot of time
<ev> plus I worked regular hours this week
<ogra_> scary ?
<ev> hm?
<ogra_> how do you manage the trembling hands when not working ?
<ogra_> (regula hours -> scary)
<ogra_> (i.e. 8h days)
<stokachu> damn we're suposed to stop at 8h???
<ev> oh yes
<ev> it's tough, but a steady stream of gigs and cosmology talks helps
<stokachu> ev, does cosmology involve that stinky green?
<ev> stokachu: I have no idea what you're talking about :), but: http://pubsci.co.uk/2012/09/04/september-pubsci-physics-special/
<barry> ev: why do i hear ali g's voice saying "cosmology"
<stokachu> PubSci regular Dr. John Hamilton will be speaking about his specialist subject â complicated physics stuff.
<stokachu> love it "complicated physics stuff"
<ev> :)
<ev> it's run by a biologist
<doko> cjwatson, set 1025295 on the list (unknown section) to resolved
<cjwatson> ta
<cjwatson> oh yes, we're finished the lightning round aren't we
<cjwatson> distracted by ...
<cjwatson> #topic bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: bugs
<cjwatson> I'm working through clearing our current stuff from http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html at the momenet
<cjwatson> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html is still not entirely unscary though
<cjwatson> please have a look and take whatever you can of at least the high/critical stuff
<cjwatson> bdmurray: anything else we should be concerned about?
<bdmurray> regarding bug 1045201 I had a look at the server images and they have cdromupgrade on them.  where does this need to get fixed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1045201 in update-manager (Ubuntu Quantal) "quantal ubuntu-server isos include cdromupgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045201
<cjwatson> bdmurray: yes, I'm going to take care of that
<cjwatson> bdmurray: it's actually a cdimage bug
<cjwatson> bdmurray: but I didn't want to move it until I'd got it fixed because who knows whether it'll fall off the tracking lists if I do that
<cjwatson> I have a kanban card for it for today
<bdmurray> okay
<bdmurray> I was looking at bug 987212 yesterday and the original reporter replied with an answer to Till's question
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 987212 in avahi (Ubuntu Quantal) "Wireless printer "Processing - Unable to locate printer."" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987212
<cjwatson> bdmurray: might be worth asking Till about it then
<bdmurray> cjwatson: okay, he'd moved it over to avahi
<doko> he did ping Laney and me yesterday
<ogra_> well, he seemed pretty desparate
<bdmurray> well, that's all I have for now
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<cjwatson> beta-2 freeze tomorrow; get yer uploads in
<xnox> =)
<cjwatson> guess that's it then :)
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 19 15:40:03 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-19-15.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-19-15.06.html
<xnox> thanks
<stgraber> thanks
<barry> thanks!
<jodh> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-20
<homero> hey guysss
<tumbleweed> MOTU Meeting o Clock
<tumbleweed> we didn't pick a chair last time (oops)
<tumbleweed> and dholbach has gone
<tumbleweed> anyone else here?
<jtaylor> <
<micahg> o/
<tumbleweed> I guess I'm chairing again :)
<tumbleweed> #startmeeting Weekly MOTU Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 20 16:08:49 2012 UTC.  The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly MOTU Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<tumbleweed> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<tumbleweed> (nothing new, that I see)
 * micahg has somethin
<tumbleweed> \o/
<tumbleweed> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly MOTU Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review of previous action items
<tumbleweed> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2012-09-06
<tumbleweed> #subtopic Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite)
<tumbleweed> xnox: you had an action item
<tumbleweed> micahg: is this your something?
<micahg> tumbleweed: no, although that one is looking more like a pipe dream ATM...
<tumbleweed> yeah
 * micahg thinks he'd be tarred and feathered if he dropped asterisk...
<tumbleweed> hehe
<tumbleweed> well, that's it for the previous action items
<tumbleweed> micahg: what's your topic?
<micahg> RC bugs in Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> #topic RC bugs in Ubuntu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly MOTU Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  RC bugs in Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> micahg: all yours
<tumbleweed> (the bugs too, if you want)
<micahg> we have a new wiki page explaining RC bug targeting
<micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting
<xnox> tumbleweed: yes. I have updates =)
<micahg> so, while in the past we've tried to keep up with RC bugs in Debian, we have our own as well that should be addressed
<xnox> tumbleweed: poke me, when we can come back to that topic.
<micahg> once the RC bugs are triaged by the release team, if they're targeted, they end up on this report
<micahg> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<micahg> there's a universe section there that we should keep an eye on
<tumbleweed> indeed, we should
<micahg> also, I've heard that some bugs have ended up on the wrong list and been marked rls-q-notfixing, we should probably review the bugs with that tag for any relevant universe bugs and make sure they're triaged appropriately
<micahg> we should also think about if we want to drop packages with outstanding RC bugs before release (or try to SRU them shortly thereafter)
<micahg> with a more active backports team now, dropped packages seem like less of an issue
<tumbleweed> I don't think there's much point in dropping packages until we start using that a lot more actively
<tumbleweed> otherwise it penalizes packages that have people paying attention to them
<micahg> well, ideally, we'd try to fix the issues
<tumbleweed> so we should add reviewing that list as a standing agenda item
<tumbleweed> (and with my release team hat on, I should pay slightly more attention to bug targetting)
<micahg> I had a WI to write criteria for dropping packages from multiverse/universe, I think it should be similar to Debian, RC bug open for 6 mo w/no attention (and I would think a dead/inactive upstream)
<tumbleweed> I can add something looking for these rc tagged bugs to http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/ubuntu-neglected-packages/
<micahg> that's the testing drop criteria AIUI, but since we have no equivalent of unstable where packages can hide and not be released, I think we're forced to drop
<micahg> well, RC is targeted + High/Critical importance
<jtaylor> dropping will not really help for upgrades
<jtaylor> so we still are likely to get complaints about the removed packages
<micahg> jtaylor: true, people are stuck with the old version of the package, but if it gets fixed later and backported, they could get an upgrade
<tumbleweed> I thought the upgrader removed removed packages?
<micahg> it offers to
<tumbleweed> done with this topic?
<micahg> yeah, I think so
<tumbleweed> #topic Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly MOTU Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite)
<tumbleweed> xnox:
<xnox> yeah. About GPE - it's a GTK based desktop envrionment target at small-screen device, e.g. phones.
<xnox> it's quite dated and on life support.
<tumbleweed> but on enough life support that people want it in Debian?
<xnox> after talking to upstream, they ported it from GTK+ 2 -> 3 and Sqlite 2 -> 3
<tumbleweed> oh, that sounds fairly alive
<xnox> very rapidly. After like years on inactivity....
<xnox> maybe just waiting for a kick =)
<xnox> it has popcon 0
<tumbleweed> still, we might have to wait a while for a new upstream release with these ports?
<xnox> gtk3/sqlite3 is not release nor fully working yet.
<micahg> awesome, can we get Debian to update?
<micahg> oh :*
<jtaylor> we could drop just drop it, it can come back later
<tumbleweed> but there's still more to drop before sqlite can go, right?
<jtaylor> assumings its the only sqlite2 blocker
<xnox> Debian maintainer said in private mail that killing sqlite2 is a bit pointless, ubuntu is not embedding friendly anyway and generally doesn't mind if ubuntu drops GPE and will not recommend upstream to port to newer API/ABI
<tumbleweed> so, we can just not block on gpe
<xnox> i would like to recommend dropping those 14 package (gpe related)
<micahg> yeah, I'd be for that if they're the last bastions of sqlite2 in the archive
<xnox> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak2xRmRUt6S4dHZfZWdhbVdiMl9HbWRHazNfOFM1aWc
<xnox> I started marking stuff.
<xnox> gambas2/3 is a programming language with sqlite2&3 binding -> drop sqlite2 bindings
<xnox> (packages)
<xnox> the new asterisk has all modules ported to sqlite3, so we'd just drop sqlite2 modules.
<micahg> xnox: are there concerns with upgrades losing data or are the plugins smart enough to handle that?
<xnox> that leaves chasing up csync2, kannel, qof, qsf, sqliteodbs and teleport (6)
<xnox> micahg: plugins are not smart enough. Ideally people should not have been using sqlite2 plugins, but obviously if it's an old install they just carry on.
<xnox> it's a shame that sqlite3 cannot read/convert sqlite2 databases, so my "upgrade plan" is
<xnox> to keep sqlite2 for an extra release after we drop dependencies.
<xnox> that will make LTS -> LTS upgrade 'interesting'
<xnox> we probably should start dropping agressivly. then people will get the hint that they need to migrate using tools in precise
<xnox> anybody knows how the rest of the world migrated from sqlite2 -> 3?
<tumbleweed> no idea :/
<micahg> probably happened years ago :-/
<tumbleweed> before sqlite was really popular
<micahg> Last sqlite2 release was Dec 2005
<tumbleweed> so, I can't see us dropping everything any time soon
<tumbleweed> but we could start disabling sqlite2 modules
<debfx> micahg: even fedora still ships sqlite2
<micahg> hrm, I guess we could wait one more release at this point, but I think asterisk would be a prime place to start dropping support for sqlite2 since it's already got its own security issues
<tumbleweed> no objection from me
<tumbleweed> shall we move on?
<micahg> sure
<tumbleweed> #topic Update from DeveloperAdvisoryTeam
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly MOTU Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Update from DeveloperAdvisoryTeam
<tumbleweed> anyone here?
<tumbleweed> #topic Review UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly MOTU Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
<tumbleweed> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
<tumbleweed> I'm seeing quite a bit of activity on the missing homepages
<tumbleweed> don't know if we are hooking anyone, though
<jtaylor> I recently proposed on -devel to add syncs/merges from wheezy to the list of easy fixes
<micahg> they're not all necessarily easy
<jtaylor> most of the syncs are
<tumbleweed> it's certainly something that new developers should learn
<tumbleweed> but it's going to be fairly far down the line
<tumbleweed> reviewing merges can be really hard (when nobody has cared about them for years)
<jtaylor> we can do some prefiltering for new contributers
<jtaylor> list merges where the versions are not far appart
<jtaylor> or no mom conflicts
<tumbleweed> and that have a linked bug, fixed in debian?
<jtaylor> an unblock already implies a fixed bug in most cases
<tumbleweed> that's a temporary thing until wheezy releases
<jtaylor> yes but why not use this good oportunity?
<tumbleweed> oh, sure
<tumbleweed> want to prepare a list?
<jtaylor> I can try, if my sql lacking skills don't get in the way
<tumbleweed> #action jtaylor to look at producing a list of easy syncs
<meetingology> ACTION: jtaylor to look at producing a list of easy syncs
<tumbleweed> #topic any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly MOTU Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  any other business?
<tumbleweed> chair for next week?
<tumbleweed> (ok, not next week, the week after)
<tumbleweed> come come
 * micahg will be around, but quite busy
 * tumbleweed presumably will be around too, but I tend to be at the pub
<tumbleweed> ok, let's call this
<tumbleweed> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 20 16:59:30 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-20-16.08.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-20-16.08.html
<tumbleweed> and laptop -> bag
<pleia2> gathering up Community Council members :)
<beuno> o/
<beuno> #startmeeting Community Council bi-weekly IRC meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 20 17:06:56 2012 UTC.  The chair is beuno. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council bi-weekly IRC meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<beuno> #chair beuno
<meetingology> Current chairs: beuno
<beuno> who's around?
<czajkowski> o/
 * beuno raises pleia2's hand
<pleia2> :)
<czajkowski> YokoZar: ping
<YokoZar> me too
<beuno> where's our agenda wiki page again?  :)
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<beuno> so, membership board catch up?
<PabloRubDroid> Hallo
<beuno> czajkowski, can you confirm?  it's not clear to me what the list is
<czajkowski> beuno: membership board
<czajkowski> GMT-
<pleia2> #topic Ubuntu Membership Board GMT-
<czajkowski> who's here from the membership board
<pleia2> (except beuno do that :))
<beuno> PabloRubDroid, that would be you?
<beuno> #topic Ubuntu Membership Board GMT-
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council bi-weekly IRC meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Membership Board GMT-
<pleia2> we did a catch-up in August, so this is anyone who didn't get a chance to talk to us last time, or has follow-up items they want to bring to our attention :)
<pleia2> since our last meeting there were a couple changes to the Membership wiki pages in an attempt to clarify requirements, but I think we came to the conclusion last time that the real problem was people not reading the pages at all before applying
<PabloRubDroid> Beuno Pablorubianes am on my cel after yesterday storm i have no power
<beuno> PabloRubDroid, ah, right. Crazy storm!
<beuno> http://www.elpais.com.uy/anexos/imagen/12/250273.jpg and http://www.elpais.com.uy/anexos/imagen/12/250436.jpg
<beuno> for those of your curious as to why PabloRubDroid doesn't have power  :)
<czajkowski> wow
<PabloRubDroid> So if i got offline is my 3g got down too
<czajkowski> PabloRubDroid: any comment on the membeship board
<pleia2> I didn't expect much comment since we just met last month, but kept this slot here just in case, so if they're nothing that's ok :)
<czajkowski> true
<pleia2> there's
<pleia2> gosh
<czajkowski> if nothing else we can move onto AOB
<czajkowski> I know foks are working
<beuno> yeap
<PabloRubDroid> Es
<PabloRubDroid> Yes i am new there
<beuno> czajkowski, by AOB you mean ARB?
<PabloRubDroid> I like how arÃ© things going
<pleia2> great :)
<beuno> ok, what's next?
<czajkowski> beuno: AOB - any other business in the meeting
<pleia2> dholbach put in a new revision of the CoC for review by the CC, so once Mark is back he can review and we can finally get it out to the community for another public review
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> the only other thing the CC needs to do is sort out the LC votes.
<beuno> #topic Other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council bi-weekly IRC meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Other business
<pleia2> ah yes, I think we finally heard from all the LC folks about the candidates, so we can start voting now
<czajkowski> again not sure if we need to wait on mark to do the final vote we did allow a week from sending them in to the CC.
<pleia2> I sent an email off to the fellow working on the Forums plugin, he says he's close to getting it workin :)
<beuno> woohoo!
<czajkowski> pleia2: brilliant news
<pleia2> (work and life stuff just got in the way, causing delay)
<czajkowski> nods
<pleia2> I think that's all I've got, and seems to be all that's on the trello board
<czajkowski> beuno: thanks for chairing
<pleia2> I'll get the wiki and stuff updated later
<beuno> czajkowski, had to happen eventually, thanks for the hand-holding
<beuno> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> next meeting is with Kubuntu Council
<czajkowski> pleia2: thank you
<beuno> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 20 17:28:56 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-20-17.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-20-17.06.html
<pleia2> can someone email them?
<czajkowski> beuno: at least it was a quiet one
<czajkowski> beuno: practice makes perfection :p
<beuno> czajkowski, that's what scares me
<beuno> :)
<YokoZar> We all learn somehow
<YokoZar> except for those birds that learn how to fly by being thrown out of the nest and like 30% of them don't
<cielak> alright, there should be an Ubuntu Accomplishments team meeting happening right now
<cielak> but it's going to be cancelled, unless there is anyone else who wanted to meet us
<cielak> in such case, please ping me ;)
<cjohnston> howdy
<iulian> Boo.
<cjohnston> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 20 22:01:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is cjohnston. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<s-fox> *waves*
<cjohnston> #chair cjohnston
<meetingology> Current chairs: cjohnston
<cjohnston> #voters cjohnston hggdh s-fox iulian micahg
<meetingology> Current voters: cjohnston hggdh iulian micahg s-fox
<cjohnston> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board meeting for 20 September 2012. The wiki page for the Review Boards are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<cjohnston> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off
<cjohnston> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<cjohnston> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<s-fox> cjohnston,  add IdleOne  to voters :)
<cjohnston> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<cjohnston> #voters IdleOne
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne cjohnston hggdh iulian micahg s-fox
<IdleOne> thank you
<s-fox> hehe
<cjohnston> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<cjohnston> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<cjohnston> AnasEmad: your up
<AnasEmad> yes
<AnasEmad> i am here
<AnasEmad> i am Anas Emad from Egypt, member of Ubuntu eg team
<iulian> AnasEmad: Could you please introduce yourself? ^
<AnasEmad> i am Public Relations Representative  in Ubuntu egypt team
<AnasEmad> i help our local team in cairo to connect more people
<AnasEmad> and this  my wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AnasEmad
<cjohnston> AnasEmad: what is Qafeer? a business?
<AnasEmad> my startup
<cjohnston> What do you do there
<AnasEmad> for marketing solutions (working with open source technology)
<AnasEmad> i am co-founder
<cjohnston> Ok.. cool. thanks
<AnasEmad> my startup Qafeer support open source from first day
<AnasEmad> in Qafeer we used Ubuntu as main OS
<iulian> AnasEmad: Not anymore?
<AnasEmad> we make a lot of events and install festivals in cairo
<AnasEmad> and mansoura and Alexandria
 * iulian thinks that was a typo.
<AnasEmad> next starday we have next SFD in egypt
<AnasEmad> in Menoufia
<AnasEmad> i will talking there in ubuntu session
<cjohnston> Ok... lets vote.. :-)
<cjohnston> #vote Voting for AnasEmad for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Voting for AnasEmad for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<hggdh> +1 AnasEmad -- thank you for your support and help
<meetingology> +1 AnasEmad -- thank you for your support and help received from hggdh
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<IdleOne> Congrats AnasEmad and Welcome :)
<EgyParadox> Congratulations
<cjohnston> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Voting for AnasEmad for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<MohamedAlaa98> congrats bro :)
<s-fox> congrats AnasEmad  :)
<AnasEmad> Thanks everyone :)
<AnasEmad> wow
<bojce> congrats
<AnasEmad> Wow
<hggdh> AnasEmad: welcome sir
<cjohnston> Next up... uros1
<uros1> hello from Belgrade, is midnight here btw
<cjohnston> Please introduce yourself
<HazRPG> AnasEmad: Congrats dude :)
<uros1> Well I`m ex journalist currently working for department of defence here in Serbia
<uros1> and only Ubuntu user in department for now, but still working on issue
<iulian> Nice mixture. :)
<uros1> In LoCo team i`m member for, let`s see 6 years
<uros1> During last few years active member and sort of team manager and devoted presenter of Ubuntu
<uros1> My wiki is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Uros%20-Ubuntu%20member%20aspirant%20page%20-%202012
<uros1> jono escaped...
<hggdh> uros1: why do you have no testimonials for you?
<uros1> missed that part...
<uros1> my bad
<hggdh> rather important part, this is where we get others to confirm what you have done
<s-fox> uros1,  i would advise you ask members of your loco to support your application :)
<uros1> myno problems, bojce: ping
<cjohnston> preferably some who are also Ubuntu Members
<uros1> yea no problem
<uros1> bojce:
<bojce> ok, uros1 is great spoksmen and one of reapy great ubuntu presenters
<IdleOne> uros1: I am curious to know how come yours and bojce wiki page are almost identical, could you explain this?
<uros1> for all bojce is coordinator of Serbian LoCo
<uros1> we do work together
<hggdh> is there anybody else in the room that can vouch for uros1 and bojce?
<uros1> why is that any problem?
<IdleOne> uros1: not a problem, just very uncommon
<uros1> we are running team for four ears
<uros1> two reapprovalls,
<IdleOne> reapprovals? you mean you were Ubuntu member before?
<uros1> no for LoCo team reapproval
<cjohnston> my concern is that the pages look more like a team reapproval page than a membership page.. I want to see what each person has done, and the almost exact copy is a little too close for my comfort, especially when the only other person to speak on your behalf is the person who is also up for membership.
<s-fox> how many people are in the loco that regularly attend  ?
<uros1> where, on presentations or in meetings?
<s-fox> both :)
<uros1> on presentations average nomber is, about 50
<uros1> in regular meetings on irc mabe 5 to 10 top
<uros1> *mabe
<s-fox> okay, does this group know you are applying for ubuntu membership /
<s-fox> ?
<uros1> yes shure its not secret
<s-fox> did you ask them to support your application with comments on your wiki ?
<uros1> no missed that part, sorry
<s-fox> okay,  do you think you could see about that done for the next meeting? :)
<uros1> what i think is: no problems to any kind of support from serbia team, we are one of the best europian teams
<uros1> in small country we managed almost 5000 members and we work hard and god
<IdleOne> I agree with s-fox. I would like to see testimonials from other members of the LoCo and also from current Ubuntu members.
<uros1> I don`t se there is  a one small problem with testemonials what so ever
<uros1> okay no problem
<uros1> still maybe one, burt this is my problem
<hggdh> uros1: the whole thing is we use the testimonials as an independent confirmation of the claims
<uros1> yea, sure
<hggdh> I tried to follow the pictures linked in the wiki, but they have no names associated
<hggdh> and there is no picture of you in the wiki/LP...
<uros1> my picture?
<uros1> moment please
<hggdh> uros1: what I was trying to do was match you with the pics. Now it is too late, I think
<uros1> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ubuntu-srbija/7989009305/in/photostream
<uros1> ok i see
<uros1> so no problems
<uros1> lets vote and reject me
<hggdh> we do not want to reject you. I propose we do *not* vote, and give you time to get the testimonials
<s-fox> +1 hd
<s-fox> f
<s-fox> g
<s-fox> +1 hggdh
<cjohnston> uros1, and bojce... It looks like you two both do great work, but we are having a couple of problems as a board with being able to determine this. As we have discussed, it would be nice if both of you could get testimonials from people in your LoCo and also from others who are Ubuntu Members so that we have a little more to go off of. It would also be nice if you could each make some changes to your pages so that 
<bojce> ok, no problem
<cjohnston> We do not want to vote on either of you today, in hopes that you will take the time prior to the next meeting to make a few small improvements to your applications, and then we will have a better picture of who you are and ask you to each reapply for the next meeting.
<cjohnston> uros1 or bojce, do you have any other questions for us?
<uros1> i think this is not fair, buit thats me
<hggdh> uros1, bojce: please get some testimonials (and tags some names in the photos). The wikis are fantastic, but we *NEED* to have confirmation
<hggdh> uros1: I guarantee you I want, with all my heart, to approve you
<cjohnston> uros1: I didn't make it on my first application either.. the issue is that none of us know you, so it is very helpful to us to have others say things about you and the work that you do in order for us to gain insight into the things that we do not know.
<uros1> Well I`m not stay awake to just tell you a story
<uros1> so okay no problem
<uros1> stay cool
<cjohnston> Also, I'm not sure if the 12:00 utc board may be a better time fit for you?
<uros1> working hour
<cjohnston> I wondered if that was the case
<hggdh> uros1: we are not going to vote now on you and bojce. We will keep you in the calendar for next meeting (in two weeks)
<uros1> so let`s go to sleep, have god night or whatever time is
<hggdh> uros1: you too. Sorry for this, but we need confirmations
<bojce> ok, see you in 2 weeks
<hggdh> bojce: as explained above, we are not going to vote on your application. Do you have any comments?
<hggdh> heh
<bojce> no, it`s ok...
<cjohnston> Thanks to those who came, and congrats to AnasEmad
<cjohnston> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 20 22:46:26 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-20-22.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-20-22.01.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-21
<smartboyhw> join #ubuntu-beginners
<smartboyhw> Sorry guys
<Riddell> skaet: meeting?
 * smartboyhw thinks it is the meeting
<ogra_> *twiddle*
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Sep 21 15:02:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<highvoltage> this feels like school when the teacher is late for class and things start to get out of control
<jbicha> \o
<skaet> sorry,  too many IRC windows this morning
<highvoltage> o/
<skaet> who's around?
<didrocks> o/
<popey> o/
<skaet> welcome.  :0
<smartboyhw> \p
<skaet> :)
<Riddell> hi
<smartboyhw> *\o
<skaet> Weekly Release Agenda (and minute location):
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-09-21
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming dates:
<skaet> 12.10
<skaet>     2012/09/25: DocString Freeze at 2100 UTC (reset from 9/20 due to UIFE volume)
<skaet>     2012/09/27: 12.10 Beta 2
<skaet>     2012/10/04: Kernel Freeze and Desktop Infrastructure Freeze at 2100 UTC
<skaet>     2012/10/09: Translation Deadline at 1030 UTC and Final Freeze at 2100 UTC
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs:
<skaet> Development teams are trying to fix: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> To be considered for fixing: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 2012/09/21 -  2996 (was 2996  - 2012/09/14):   Thank you for the recent push to clean up the feature status.  :)
<skaet> We are still behind the trendline for some of the projects.  Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks. If something is clearly not going to make it this cycle, please mark it POSTPONED.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Weekly Status Received:
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001955.html  - QA - plars
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001958.html - desktop - didrocks
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001954.html - security - mdeslaur
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001950.html - HWCert - brendand
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001949.html  - kernel - ogasawara
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001952.html - ubuntu one - joshuahoover
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001965.html - community - balloons
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001956.html - server - arosales
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001961.html - linaro - fabo
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001968.html - Unity - popey
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001962.html - foundations - ogra_
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001960.html  - kubuntu - RIddell
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001951.html - edubuntu - stgraber
<skaet> ?? - xubuntu - knome
<skaet> ?? - Ubuntu Studio - ScottL
<skaet> ?? - Lubuntu - gilir
<skaet> #topic Comments and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Comments and Questions
<skaet> couple of comments first,  and then if people have questions "o/" to get the floor.
<skaet> Technical Overview is ready for input from teams,  please have your featurecomments in  as early as possible next week.
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview
<skaet> any bugs that need to land for beta2 should get added to http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-release.  Status will be tracked there and on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/  (Beta 2 milestone to be added on Monday).
<skaet> ..
<skaet> any one have question to kick the round table off?
<Laney> o/
<skaet> go Laney
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-font-family-sources/+bug/1048600
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1048600 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Restore "Ubuntu Medium" weights in Ubuntu's binary .deb" [High,Triaged]
<Laney> let's decide
<Laney> I put it in the unapproved queue already.
<Riddell> decision is taken no? it's been uploaded already
<Riddell> kubuntu has stopped using the ubuntu font as a result
<stgraber> Riddell: we're talking about reverting the change
<popey> we're actively debugging the qt issue
<skaet> Riddell,  it hasn't been applied.   we're talking about reverting it due to breakage.
<skaet> I still haven't seen summary of what breaks with it beyond the Qt comments.   Is there anything else?
<xnox> current status: no medium in the archive. current unapproved queue status: add medium weight.
<Laney> no
<Laney> the opposite of that
<xnox> oh. ok.
 * xnox got confused.
<Laney> skaet: various Qt apps get a bold font instead of the normal one
<Riddell> bug 744812 says inkscape?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 744812 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu Quantal) "FontConfig/Qt stack choke on Ubuntu Medium font meta-data (No medium in Inkscape and too bold in Qt apps)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/744812
<Laney> like, try the U1 control panel
<Laney> I also saw it on vbox
<popey> and vlc
<Laney> anyway, popey: you have a lead?
<popey> we have allocated a qt person to look at it
<popey> previously we couldn't find any expert who had time/knowledge to examine the issue further
<Laney> do we have a bug to track?
<Laney> I likey the soundy
<popey> could we use the existing bug?
<popey> or do you want a new one?
<popey> "medium font breaks qt apps" ?
<popey> ..
<Laney> don't mind particularly
<Laney> 744812 makes sense
<popey> I will ask for regular updates
<popey> ..
<skaet> popey,  are we likely to get a fix today?
<Laney> so, let's leave it in the queue until Monday?
<popey> not likely, no.
<skaet> there are screen shots that have to happen this weekend.
<Laney> can they be taken with the non-broken font?
<skaet> jbicha, ^ ?
<Laney> either way it will be unbroken (revert or fix)
<brendand> skaet, i get a 404 on the release upgrade dialog?
<skaet> cjwatson,  ogra_, ^ known issue?
<Laney> anyway, let's move on
<Laney> ..
<popey> if anyone with deep qt skills on the kde side could help, we'd appreciate it!
<popey> ..
<ogra_> skaet, the 404 ? havent heard about it
<ogra_> skaet, though i know that xnox only recently fixed an issue wheer firefox didnt start at all for the notes
<ogra_> so it wouldnt have been visible since FF didnt start
<xnox> ogra_: probably means stgraber
<ogra_> oh, k
<ogra_> one of my team :)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> brendand,  if this is a recent failure from quantal daily,  please start a discussion off on #ubuntu-release,   probably not the right time to debug it here.   :)
<skaet> ..
<ogra_> file a bug first place ;)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Laney, popey - so,  we leave it in pending state,  and ask jbicha to make sure to take snapshots from what is in archive right now.
<skaet> ??
<Laney> no, he'd have to actively use the old font
<popey> skaet, when do you need to re-visit this?
<popey> (or rm the -M font files)
<Laney> I think the only screenshot that might be affected is U1 though
<Laney> so depends on whether that's in there
<skaet> popey,  screen shots are planned for the weekend based on last communication I heard from him.
<stgraber> I'd personally prefer that we accept the reverted package in the archive and re-introduce the font only once qt is fixed
<stgraber> it's a one line change in the package, so not really a problem to flip it back whenever we have a fix
<skaet> stgraber,  I think that is the path of least surprises.
<popey> could that happen post-b2, pre-release? (the re-enabling)
<Laney> it can happen basically at any time
<stgraber> popey: it's going to depend on how scary the fix is going to be
<Laney> as long as the fix is good
<popey> Understood. I was taking the flipping-bit in isolation there.
<skaet> Reverting seems prudent,  given the timing,  and uncertainty of when the fix will land,  and dependencies.
<skaet> Revert it is - unless someone yells loudly now.
<skaet> ..
<Laney> well, the argument for keeping it in is to provide pressure to get it fixed
<Laney> so, as long as this person will work on it regardless
<popey> They will
<Laney> ok
<Laney> someone accept it then
<stgraber> Laney: that's odd because my feeling was the opposite, not having the font in the archive was creating more pressure on getting it fixed (as these guys seem to really want it in) ;)
<Laney> Riddell: will kubuntu take it back? :-)
<stgraber> Laney: I'll review and accept
<skaet> thanks Laney,  stgraber.
<popey> Thank you.
<skaet> ..
<Riddell> Laney: being able to go back to the ubuntu font would be nice
<Laney> rock
<Laney> coming soon to an archive near you
<skaet> :)
<jbicha> sorry, I was distracted; I'd prefer reverting too since it would be nice to have people contribute translated screenshots
<smartboyhw> lol
<stgraber> Laney: accepted. Spent a minute trying to figure out what the +console was for in the previous upload, but couldn't find any good reason :)
<Laney> same (that's why I dropped it)
<skaet> next topic then...  webapps uploads
<skaet> I asked mterry to upload the missing bits to the queue,  so we could get them reviewed and decide if its safe to approve the FFe or not.
<skaet> webapps-applications 2.4.6-0ubuntu1
<skaet>  webapps-greasemonkey 2.3.1-0ubuntu1
<skaet> unity-firefox-extension 2.3-0ubuntu1
<skaet> they are key to getting the app story working properly it seems,  and we've been swirling on the FFE and feature churn associated with them.
<skaet> I need a release team member to volunteer to review them, and make sure the implications are considered.
<skaet> properly.
<skaet> any volunteers?
<jbicha> I'm really not happy with adding more items to the launcher by default without removing some to make up for it
<jbicha> I've so far gotten no response from Design about what they'd prefer to remove, and I'd like that settled today so that we can finalize screenshots
<highvoltage> I'm not sure they take your happiness in consideration when making these decisions ;)
<skaet> jbicha,  we need this decided since its going to affect the screenshots as well.
<skaet> beyond the laucher.
<didrocks> the list of default launcher icons is sabdfled, it was already the case, it's still the case for the new list.
<jbicha> the problem is that items won't fit without scrolling off the screen on 1366x768 pixel screens, which is the most common screen resolution today
<didrocks> so not sure we can really discuss about removing some without some inputs here
<didrocks> ..
<jbicha> somebody buy sabdfl a netbook ;)
<xnox> jbicha: sure retina display?
<xnox> ;)
<skaet> jbicha,  open a design error on them not fitting.   let me know the number.   Not sure this will get resolved timely or not.  but will focus on it for rest of today.
<xnox> that would be a hell of a netbook =)
<skaet> :)
<jbicha> ..
<skaet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunity-webapps/+bug/1040313
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040313 in libunity-webapps (Ubuntu R-series) "[FFE] Update WebApps to support Firefox" [High,Confirmed]
<skaet> is the other problem here.
<skaet> since the volunteers haven't rushed forward...
<didrocks> skaet: chriscoulson reviewed the patch for firefox. He isn't thrilled about them but thinks it's ok
<skaet> Laney,  since you understand the desktop implications best,  and infinity - since you're on as engineer for this could you both review the packages and make a recommendation.
<skaet> ?
<skaet> s/this/Beta 2/
<Laney> so, we still need NEW and MIR?
<didrocks> that's my understanding
<skaet> yes,  that appears to be the case.
<Laney> I don't really understand what all of the different pieces are for, to be honest
<skaet> Laney,  mterry will help provide context and direct you to those that should know.   You know more than I do about this one,  and its high risk.
<skaet> so want to make sure its given best chance at finding blockers/issues before we pull it in.
<skaet> if you have someone else who's opinion you trust on this,  by all means speak up.
<Laney> yes, Chris :-)
<skaet> ok,  if you're willing to accept Chris' opinion on behalf of the release team for this,  ok by me.
<skaet> mdeslaur,  do we need security reviews for the MIRs for these?  if so,  can you help expedite?
 * skaet will work with infinity and others in #ubuntu-release channel to follow up on this.
<skaet> ..
<Laney> I don't mind weighing in, but technically Chris will know more than the rest of us
<Laney> ..
<mdeslaur> skaet: probably, yes
<mdeslaur> skaet: we'll do what we can
<skaet> Thanks mdeslaur,  Laney.
<jbicha> o/
<skaet> go jbicha
<jbicha> I guess this is just a comment, but the GNOME Remix will try to follow along with Beta2 next week
<jbicha> ..
<ogra_> jbicha, i read everywhere that will be gnome2 based ... is that true ?
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> (would be surprising)
<didrocks> I would applaud *technically* speaking if this was possible, but I doubt it's the case :)
<jbicha> ogra_: where's everywhere? it's GNOME Shell and for this cycle we're also include GNOME Fallback for those that prefer that
<ogra_> ah, cool
<ogra_> jbicha, several blogs, havent gotten any urls atm
<ogra_> i was assuming thats blind speculation, just wanted to be sure :)
<ogra_> ..
<micahg> that wouldn't make sense as GNOME2 isn't even in the archive
<skaet> thanks jbicha.    I'll let you know when we're ready to release beta 2 then on Thursday.
<skaet> let me know if you need other information from us.
<ogra_> micahg, thats why i was assuming this :)
<skaet> ok,  any one have any worrisome bugs that are blockers for beta 2 that they know about?
<Laney> what's this compix/nux API/ABI break business?
<skaet> popey, ^ ?
<didrocks> Laney: it's already in quantal
<ogra_> and was it tested on arm this time ? :)
<didrocks> Laney: I think popey is off by a day
<mdeslaur> LP: #1049088 worries me
<Laney> oh, the last stack?
<Laney> that's fine then
<didrocks> yep
<popey> oops
<skaet> bug 1049088
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049088 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "Unity crashes at login with nouveau driver" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049088
<skaet> ogasawara, ^ are we likely to get a fix for Beta 2?
<skaet> hmm... not around.    Thanks mdeslaur,  will add it to the pad of candidates.
<mdeslaur> thanks
<skaet> anyone else?
<plars> skaet: amd64+mac installs are not good at the moment if you have a usb attached keyboard, due to bug #1050855 and bug #1050436
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1050855 in linux (Ubuntu) "External USB keyboard stops working when d-i starts on mac mini" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050855
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1050436 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "USB keyboard is not recognized on mac mini during the grub menu" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050436
<ogra_> plars, could that be your kbd ? given you have the same issues on arm ?
<ogra_> :)
<plars> ogra_: no, I don't see it actually
<plars> ogra_: the only mac I have to test on is a macbook, and doesn't seem to be affective, but psivaa gets this on his system
<ogra_> ah, k
<skaet> plars,  ok,  will add both of those as well,  and follow up after the meeting with ogasawara and cjwatson.
<plars> ogra_: and on the arm one, I've tried 3 different keyboards :)
<ogra_> i was hoping there is a coincident across arches :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> going 1
<skaet> 2
<skaet> 3
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Sep 21 15:57:35 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-21-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-21-15.02.html
<ogra_> thanks skaet !
<didrocks> thanks skaet :)
<stgraber> thanks
<Laney> cheers
<skaet> Thanks ogra_ , didrocks, stgraber, plars, mdeslaur, Laney, Riddell, micahg, xnox, popey,  brendand, highvoltage, jbicha
<xnox> =)
<mdeslaur> thanks skaet!
<xnox> thank you!
<popey> thanks skaet
<jbicha> thanks
<cjwatson> plars,skaet: psivaa said that the grub2 side of that wasn't a regression, so, as you can see in the bug log, I declined to commit to fixing that for release
<cjwatson> We don't have resources to do serious development work on the USB implementation in GRUB right now
<skaet> cjwatson,  thanks.
<cjwatson> (I have no knowledge of the kernel side)
<cjwatson> Oh, maybe I do
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-22
<elfy> hi coffeecat
<Iowan> We seem to be arriving...
<elfy> yep
<cariboo907> I'm here
<Iowan> old coffee>out, fresh coffee<in
<cariboo907> I just made a fresh pot )
<cariboo907> :)
<elfy> pot of tea ...
<jbicha> people have meeting on Saturdays?
<noskcaj> what for?
<elfy> jbicha: they do if it's the only time they can get enough together at the same time ;)
<lifeless> saturday?
<jbicha> what's the meeting?
<elfy> forum council
<cariboo907> Forum Council
<cariboo907> elfy, beat to it again :)
<cariboo907> beat me :)
<bkerensa> =o
<bkerensa> Forummmmmmmmmmmmms
<elfy> hi bkerensa
<bkerensa> hello
<elfy> how's things
<Iowan> Boss is here...
<elfy> hi s-fox
<s-fox> foxy is here
<Iowan> her, too... ;)
<s-fox> 1 minute to go
<s-fox> ping elfy Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat
<Iowan> o/
<elfy> o/
<coffeecat> o/
<cariboo907> o/
<s-fox> splendid
<s-fox> then let us begin
<s-fox> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Sep 22 21:00:15 2012 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<s-fox> #voters elfy coffeecat Iowan cariboo907 s-fox
<meetingology> Current voters: Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat elfy s-fox
<Iowan> New command?
<s-fox> #topic  ubuntuforums fc meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ubuntuforums fc meeting
 * Iowan likes
<s-fox> #idea Wubi forums vs. Prefix ?
<s-fox> odd
<s-fox> #idea wubi prefix vs forums
<s-fox> okay, that is weird
<s-fox> lol
<s-fox> anyone know why that isn't working ?
<Iowan> topic?
<elfy> no idea
<s-fox> #subtopic wubi prefix vs forums ?
<cariboo907> how about sub-topic?
<s-fox> hmm
<s-fox> #meetingtopic
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ubuntuforums fc meeting
<s-fox> #subtopic test
<elfy> do you have to be chair to run it?
<Iowan> chair? (guessing wildly)
<s-fox> i am the chair
<s-fox> <meetingology> Meeting started Sat Sep 22 21:00:15 2012 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<s-fox> #topic wubi prefix vs subforum
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: wubi prefix vs subforum
<s-fox> ahah, okay go with it ;)
<Iowan> THERE!
<elfy> :)
<cariboo907> yaaay
<Iowan> Are we rusty???
<s-fox> basically bodhi was getting at having a subforum for wubi, rather than a prefix
<cariboo907> I say prefix only
<elfy> was brought up by rubi I believe
<elfy> I see no need for a new sub forum
<s-fox> i know we discussed it earlier so can we skip to the vote?
<coffeecat> Rubi was keen - I don't think many others were.
<s-fox> i am neutral at best. more inclined to leave things as they are are, with just the prefix
<Iowan> is it worth tabling?
<s-fox> everyone okay with going to a vote ?
<Iowan> vote...
<coffeecat> Yes
<elfy> yes
<cariboo907> yes
<s-fox> #vote create wubi subforum
<meetingology> Please vote on: create wubi subforum
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from s-fox
<coffeecat> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from coffeecat
<cariboo907> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from cariboo907
<elfy> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from elfy
<Iowan> -1 for now.
<meetingology> -1 for now. received from Iowan
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: create wubi subforum
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:5 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<s-fox> #vote keep the prefix
<meetingology> Please vote on: keep the prefix
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: keep the prefix
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> #agreed Leave things as they are for wubi
<s-fox> hmmm, le sigh
<s-fox> #agree leave things as they are for wubi
<s-fox> fine, be that way ;)
<Iowan> (more research...)
<s-fox> coffeecat,  has an item about Tutorials and Tips Forum
<s-fox> #topic Tutorials and Tips Forum
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Tutorials and Tips Forum
<cariboo907> bug time?
<s-fox> it is listed as a valid command cariboo907 , as is subtopic to be fair
<s-fox> coffeecat,  you have the floor :)
<cariboo907> I know, I've got the page up too
<coffeecat> Elfy really needs to take the lead, but I was wondering if it was time to rename the T&T forum, new sticky, etc.
<s-fox> what would you want to rename it to coffeecat ?
<cariboo907> Something like wiki page discussion?
<Iowan> I'm neutral/stupid on this one - educate me
<s-fox> i am fairly neutral, but can see a point to it
<coffeecat> Something like Wiki Tutorials discussion forum?
<elfy> given that we want to stop posting in there and move to wiki - I'd prefer to see the tutes forums closed to new posts and a new one created for discussions - people don't read the stickies and still send things to the moderation queue
<s-fox> obvious question:why should it be renamed ?
<coffeecat> It's no longer for tutorials
<coffeecat> Only discussions about wiki tutes
<elfy> excatly
<coffeecat> I'm +1 for Elfy's suggestion for new forum + close old one.
<cariboo907> +1 to elfy 's suggestion too
<s-fox> HOWTO discussions ?
<elfy> that's them both tutes'n'tips and outdated
<elfy> Wiki tutorial discussions
<Iowan> I'm inclined to agree that new forum=new name to make change obvious.
<cariboo907> I never really like Tips & Tutes, as most of them were hoto's anyway
<s-fox> are we renaming or creating a  new forum  ?
<elfy> create a new one - close the old ones
<cariboo907> I's say a new sub-forum
<Iowan> ^
<coffeecat> agreed
<elfy> and make the old ones sub to that one I assume
<s-fox> alright, now i know what the notion is (i didn't fully understand it) so will start a vote
<s-fox> #vote close tut's and tips , create new forum
<meetingology> Please vote on: close tut's and tips , create new forum
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Iowan> will it see more use than the dev subforum?
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Iowan> +1
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<s-fox> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from s-fox
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: close tut's and tips , create new forum
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> should we archive old forum ?
<cariboo907> +1
<elfy> yea
<s-fox> #vote archive tut's and tips
<meetingology> Please vote on: archive tut's and tips
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<Iowan> That'd block new entries as well as closing
<coffeecat> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from coffeecat
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: archive tut's and tips
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<coffeecat> o/ whoa!
<s-fox> what do we do about the howto's that have been converted?  do we move the first post to its own thread OR create a new thread anyway ?
<s-fox> coffeecat,
<s-fox> ?
<coffeecat> The reason I voted 0 for archiving is that if we agree a home layout change later, the archive will be made mnore difficult to find.
<coffeecat> May be made...
<cariboo907> I'd suggest a new thread
<elfy> mmm
<Iowan> coffeecat, doesn't that depend on new layout?
<elfy> so not archive it - but close to new posts
<s-fox> close the forum ?
<coffeecat> agree with elfy. Iowan the idea for layout change came from making archive more obscure, iirc.
<elfy> coffeecat: yea - was my thought re archives
<cariboo907> I don't really see a problem with that ,as most of the tips & tutes are outdated any how
<s-fox> alright, vote time (again) ;)
<Iowan> Wait!
<coffeecat> Also - if/when we close the T&T forum, we need to move the new wiki discussion threads into new forum.
<s-fox> okay
<s-fox> :)
<elfy> I'll do the move of the threads
<Iowan> Do we need to un-vote the archive vote?
<Iowan> Who has Roberts Rules of Order?
<elfy> not me - I'd assume it was a made up name
<cariboo907> IT looks like we still archive the sub-forum, just make it harder to find
<s-fox> okay, can i now call a vote ? ;)
<Iowan> sure
<s-fox> alright.... this is going to be a 2 parter, but bear with me....
<s-fox> #vote close tut's and tips NOT archive
<meetingology> Please vote on: close tut's and tips NOT archive
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cariboo907> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from cariboo907
<Iowan> +0 - we already voted to archive
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +0 - we already voted to archive received from Iowan
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<s-fox> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from s-fox
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: close tut's and tips NOT archive
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> okay, so that went ahead.... now the second part
<s-fox> #vote move first post of migrated tut's and tips to new forum  ?
<meetingology> Please vote on: move first post of migrated tut's and tips to new forum  ?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<cariboo907> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from cariboo907
<Iowan> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Iowan
<coffeecat> I don't understsand the vote topic
<elfy> the old threads get closed and new discussion thread is opened at present
<s-fox> coffeecat,  do we move the first post of the old migrated tuts to the new forum OR do we create a new post ?
<s-fox> 2 seconds...sorry...flea bag is playing up
<elfy> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from elfy
<coffeecat> +0 /me completely baffled
<meetingology> +0 /me completely baffled received from coffeecat
 * Iowan too
<elfy> the way it works is - old thread converted, old thread closed, new discussion thread created - that will be moved to new forum - or that's my understanding
<s-fox> back
<s-fox> i think this needs a little more discussion
<coffeecat> THat's my understanding. Discussion threads only moved to new forum.
<elfy> yea
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<cariboo907> oops I forgot we were still in a vote
<s-fox> i'll end the vote, disregard the result
<coffeecat> :)
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: move first post of migrated tut's and tips to new forum  ?
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> ^ IGNORE
<s-fox> Right,  so we want are talking about a brand new thread ?
<elfy> what we need to vote on is - leave old tutorial threads and move newer discussion threads to new forum
<cariboo907> Wouldn't we leave the discussion part up to the wiki page creator?
<elfy> which is all we'd need to move
<elfy> cariboo907: mostly that is the wiki team people
<elfy> but - previously it could only really be staff as the 'old' thread needed to be closed at the same time
<cariboo907> Isn't the idea though to get any one that creates a new howto, to create a wiki page?
<elfy> yes
<coffeecat> And a new forum will really force the issue as far as I can see.
<elfy> coffeecat: yes
<cariboo907> what's to stop someone from creating a howto in the discussion sub-forum?
<elfy> and will mean that there are no threads that will need closing - as the old forums will be closed anyway - so at that point wiki creator can start the wiki discussion
<elfy> cariboo907: we voted to close those but not archive them
<s-fox> i wonder if we can moderate posts to an entire subforum....
<s-fox> if it looks like a howto we could act and advise
<coffeecat> If someone starts a howto in the new forum, it'll be closed or moved to an ordinary forum, I guess.
<cariboo907> What I asked is what if someone decides to create a new howto in the discussion sub-forum, what's to stop them?
<coffeecat> Nothing, but we move it out.
<Iowan> us?
<cariboo907> OK thanks coffeecat
<coffeecat> WE could ensure the new forum is moderated as the T&T is/was.
 * s-fox nods
<elfy> yep
<cariboo907> If we are going to do that why bother with a new sub-forum?
<elfy> to make a clean break
<coffeecat> It's cleaner that way - new strategy - new forum/
<elfy> otherwise nothing will change imo
<bkerensa> :)
<coffeecat> agreed with elfy - no one reads the stickies.
<cariboo907> so we'll still end up with queued threads awaitng moderation?
<elfy> well I would assume that people going to the new forum and seeing it empty will thinktwice
<s-fox> i'm for a clean break
<coffeecat> I think the modding will be easier - I was never comfortable with judging the technical content of new tutes.
<Iowan> ditto
<s-fox> i think we should discuss this in scc and move on for now
<elfy> ok
<cariboo907> +1
<coffeecat> +1
<s-fox> you know, we seem to have stalled a little
<Iowan> move on
<elfy> come back to it next month
<s-fox> alright, we'll move on
<s-fox> but we agree to discuss this more later
<s-fox> #topic Human verification questions - follow up to changes
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Human verification questions - follow up to changes
<s-fox> coffeecat,  you have the floor :)
<Iowan> Well, the changes seem to be working
<coffeecat> Not much to say really. There was a drmatic drop in bot reigsatrtions.
<coffeecat> We changed 2-3 questions the other day.
<Iowan> Are bots catching on to new questions?
<s-fox> we contacted canonical is about the bug (i would not like to say what that bug is in public)
<Iowan> I know which one...
<coffeecat> The ones I've looked at don't seem to be bots. None of the i.a.m.a.d.i.r.t.s.p.a.m.m.e.r@whatever.com emails
<s-fox> okay, good :)
<cariboo907> I think we are well aware of the bug you refer to s
<cariboo907> s-fox,
<s-fox> alright, nothing to vote on - i'd like to move on with the meeting
<s-fox> anyone object ?
<Iowan> move on...
<cariboo907> no lets move on
<elfy> nope - that's fine with me
<coffeecat> fine by me
<s-fox> okay :)
<s-fox> #topic Forum Upgrade
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Forum Upgrade
<Iowan> Anything new since the ML message?
<s-fox> i could say so much about this and how it has annoyed me somewhat, but i saw the mail from lyz the other day
<cariboo907> Is there much to discuss until SSO is done?
<s-fox> and i think elfy sent something recently also
<elfy> waiting on Kyle Baker apparently
 * s-fox nods
<elfy> I updated the ticket for an update from him
<s-fox> anything new to report that we don't already know  ?
<elfy> nope
<s-fox> maybe we should let the community know the status ?
<elfy> stalled
<s-fox> agreed, stalled
<s-fox> again
<Iowan> That's news?
<cariboo907> still
<bkerensa> My understanding is the SSO is nearly done
<bkerensa> just a heads up ^
<bkerensa> I have been pushing the force that be to move it along
<s-fox> bkerensa,  source? :)
<s-fox> awesome :D
<bkerensa> s-fox: jcastro
<bkerensa> he said he predicts it being done next week
<elfy> my understanding is that communication on this issue has been appalling
<bkerensa> but maybe he was just being optimistic
<bkerensa> idk
<elfy> we have had optimism for years bkerensa ;)
<s-fox> i think we should get in touch with castro
<s-fox> again
<bkerensa> elfy: I understand your frustration :) I want to see forums upgraded asap
<s-fox> #vote someone get in touch with castro for an update
<meetingology> Please vote on: someone get in touch with castro for an update
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: someone get in touch with castro for an update
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> woot :)
<s-fox> #topic Rethink forum home page layout
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Rethink forum home page layout
<bkerensa> :D
<Iowan> beyond me...
<s-fox> lots of discussion on this already, would like to just skip to the vote since nearly everyone is for it
<s-fox> and this is coffeecat 's item
<s-fox> ;)
<cariboo907> we need to do something
<coffeecat> Everyone seen the suggested way forward here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2060237 ?
<cariboo907> to many emails to the admin on how to create a thread :)
<cariboo907> +1
<elfy> yep
<Iowan> I'd like to see the proposed layout first.
<Iowan> Different isn't necessarily better
<coffeecat> That's in the proposal/
<s-fox> which post, the thread has over 70 replies ;)
<s-fox> oh wait, that is the short one :D
<Iowan> I have no problem *considering* a new layout...
<cariboo907> You posted in it s-fox  :)
<s-fox> i know  cariboo907  :)
<Iowan> vote?
<s-fox> we are going to vote on considering a new layout?
<cariboo907> when will it be done? :-D I'm inpatient
<coffeecat> I thought we "considered" in early August.
<elfy> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12149766&postcount=19
<coffeecat> If we keep on "considering" this will take as long as the forum upgrade.
<elfy> to post 22 I think is the bones of it
<s-fox> thanks elfy  :)
<cariboo907> +1 to what coffeecat  said :)
<s-fox> alright, going to vote.
<elfy> +1
<elfy> what on?
<coffeecat> lol
<s-fox> on going with the outline
<s-fox> anyone mind going to the vote  ?
<cariboo907> should we get TV involved in this?
<elfy> we can follow up with the nitty gritty details in SCC
<cariboo907> or I should say ask TV?
<cariboo907> Let's vote
<coffeecat> The adjustments in AdmonCP are quite straightforward. It doesn't need TV I think.
<coffeecat> AdminCP too! :)
<s-fox> straightforward changes
<elfy> :)
<s-fox> calling a vote, time is getting on...
<s-fox> #vote Agree in principle to updating forum homepage layout, exact changes to be outlined clearly
<meetingology> Please vote on: Agree in principle to updating forum homepage layout, exact changes to be outlined clearly
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Iowan> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Iowan
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<elfy> +1
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Agree in principle to updating forum homepage layout, exact changes to be outlined clearly
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> alright, just division of duties now
<s-fox> who wants which tasks?
<Iowan> I'll keep the announcement - unless someone REALLY wants it
<bkerensa> :)
<s-fox> pass
<s-fox> lol
 * bkerensa haz no tasks
<elfy> I can take first responder in RC
<cariboo907> I'll answer the admin emails
<s-fox> #action Iowan to carry on with announcement
<meetingology> ACTION: Iowan to carry on with announcement
<s-fox> #action Elfy first contact in RC
<meetingology> ACTION: Elfy first contact in RC
<coffeecat> I'm happy with welcome pm. I haven't had aany spam pm's in a while and I miss them! :)
<s-fox> #action cariboo907  to do the emails
<meetingology> ACTION: cariboo907  to do the emails
<s-fox> #action coffeecat  to do the welcome pm
<meetingology> ACTION: coffeecat  to do the welcome pm
<s-fox> #action s-fox to sit pretty as ever :)
<meetingology> ACTION: s-fox to sit pretty as ever :)
<Iowan> is that the same as the announcement?
 * elfy doesn't know what the tasks are anyway 
<TheLordOfTime> lol s-fox
<Iowan> (the welcome pm)
<elfy> but doesn't want the monthly report ...
<s-fox> #action s-fox to do the report
<meetingology> ACTION: s-fox to do the report
<Iowan> What else can I help mess up?
<cariboo907> s-fox,  took the easy one again :)
<elfy> Iowan: you can help move the forums about :)
<Iowan> Careful what you ask...
<elfy> :)
<Iowan> I might move tnem to cheesecake
<elfy> lol
<s-fox> alright, i think that is everything, anyone got anything to bring up ?
<bkerensa> ;p
<bkerensa> I like llamas
<coffeecat> o/ 1 brief question
<elfy> so - we going to get next months meeting sorted out in the next week ...
<s-fox> coffeecat,  go :)
<s-fox> i have one item also that can wait until the end
<coffeecat> the namless "bug". No one's responded to the RC ticket. It'lltake 5 minutes for someone to comment out a couple of lines in a php file....
<coffeecat> ... Is there someone we can approach directly?
<TheLordOfTime> why not just give them a diff so they apply it?  just saying :P
<TheLordOfTime> whoops sorry wrong channel
 * TheLordOfTime hates laptops
<s-fox> coffeecat,  we could see who is around on irc i guess
<s-fox> or even bring it up with castro since he is our appointed contact person
<Iowan> ^^
<coffeecat> +1 to castro. It's such a tiny job held up by red tape.
 * elfy thinks that's a good idea - one e-mail 2 important issues 
<cariboo907> +1 tothe email
<s-fox> alright
<s-fox> can we move on to my item ?
<elfy> yep
<coffeecat> yep
<Iowan> please
<cariboo907> yupe
<s-fox> now me and bodhi both shared the chair position. obviously things have changed. i have taken the role completely.  i don't think anyone especially minds this, but i think it would be wise to have a 'backup, just incase real life happens on me'
<bkerensa> +1
<bkerensa> or burnout
<elfy> ok
<s-fox> so, i suppose i what i am getting at is, does anyone object, and who could do that ?
<Iowan> Who is qualified to backup?
<s-fox> all of you
<Iowan> I dunno the bot format...
<s-fox> the question perhaps should be, who wants to
<cariboo907> I nominate elfy  :)
<s-fox> Iowan,  the bot is easy, it can be taught
<elfy> I'll do it if no-one else wants it
<bkerensa> +1 for elfy as backup
<coffeecat> Presumably a backup/co-chair would be given super-admin permissionfor the forum?
<elfy> cariboo907: thanks then - you could have waited
<elfy> :)
<s-fox> coffeecat,  correct. as far as i am aware i am the only super admin on the forum
<Iowan> I suspect we'd all be willing
<s-fox> this is not a good thing
<cariboo907> But you did such a good job of arranging the meeting elfy
<elfy> agreed s-fox
<elfy> cariboo907: lol
<Iowan> qualified... not so much
<elfy> is there are reason why there shoudl only be two super admins?
<bkerensa> too many fingers?
<s-fox> yes, so coffeecat doesn't wipe everything by accident
<s-fox> ;)
<coffeecat> lol
<elfy> :)
<bkerensa> lawl
<bkerensa> :D
<Iowan> accident?
<bkerensa> Do you guys do database backups at some sort of normal rate?
<elfy> LOL
<bkerensa> like daily snapshots?
<s-fox> i would propose you all go and think about this and this discussion to be moved to the ml
<elfy> ok - sounds good
<Iowan> +1
<bkerensa> +`
<cariboo907> +1
<coffeecat> +1
<s-fox> alight, thanks everyone :)
<elfy> cheers s-fox
<s-fox> alight, english is funny
<s-fox> alright
<cariboo907> thanls s-fox
<cariboo907> thanks
<coffeecat> Thanks s-fox
<bkerensa> thanks forum council!
<bkerensa> :D
<s-fox> thank you all for helping to re-establish the meetings
<s-fox> anything else to add before ending meeting ?
<bkerensa> Stay Calm and Use Forums!
<elfy> who's mailing jcastro?
<bkerensa> me
<bkerensa> I will cc s-fox
<Iowan> FC should
<s-fox> i am back to the hospital tomorrow, so it is unlikely to me
<s-fox> can someone find some time to do it   later ?
<elfy> I can do that tomorrow
<s-fox> thanks elfy
<s-fox> #action elfy  to email castro
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy  to email castro
<s-fox> okay, anything else ?
<coffeecat> elfy, I'll give you the link for the "bug" if you can't lay your hands on it.
<elfy> I have bookmarked coffeecat
<coffeecat> Excellent!
<Iowan> U D man!
<Iowan> There are a few more items on duties list, but none urgent.
<cariboo907> Discuss on theML?
<Iowan> +1
<Iowan> (time to end)
<cariboo907> my space bar doesn' t work very well today :)
<elfy> so I'll cc cc as well then when I mail jc
<s-fox> okay :)
<s-fox> ending the meeting ;)
<elfy> go for it
<s-fox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Sep 22 22:20:28 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-22-21.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-22-21.00.html
<cariboo907> +1
<s-fox> hehe
<Iowan> YEA! WE DID IT!
<s-fox> thanks for coming everyone
<elfy> I'll also tomorrow do a - next meeting time thing
<elfy> once I've had a gallon or two of tea
 * Iowan plans to check calendar
 * elfy plans to check kettle
<bkerensa> \o/
<Iowan> elfy, I was typing response for email to jcastro, but you beat me again...
<elfy> we can swap if you like Iowan
<elfy> I'll take the not doing it
<elfy> :)
<Iowan> ... but you already have the link bookmarked
<elfy> lol
<elfy> good night then :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-16
 * jose jose
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 16 17:08:07 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I've got planning to do related to getting something together 14.04 and until release, but for the most part, stuff that is hitting saucy is not feature work at this point
<jdstrand> so I've put that on the backburner for the moment
<jdstrand> (ie, we are finishing up things we've started and fixing bugs in 13.10-- but I know we are already starting some 14.04 stuff, which is fine)
<jdstrand> (and by 14.04, I mean 13.10 stuff that was postponed :)
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> I've been working a lot on trying to get all our policy in order
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks for that
<jdstrand> and its coming along, but has been difficult in spots because the APIs haven't all landed in their full form yet
<jdstrand> sbeattie: np
<jdstrand> sbeattie: thanks for being flexible in what you're working on :)
<sbeattie> heh, sure.
<jdstrand> I'm also following up with various teams to get bugs fixed and policy workarounds removed
<jdstrand> (eg, all the bugs surrounding non-app-specific paths)
<jdstrand> also working with appstore reviews and how to automate them where we can
<jdstrand> and discussing webapps confinement a bit
<jdstrand> all that will continue this week and I hope to check of related work items
<jdstrand> I also have MIR reviews that I am working on
<jdstrand> and will pick up an update if I can
<jdstrand> I think that's it for me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> and am working on a bunch of embargoed issues
<mdeslaur> hopefully they'll all get published this week
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor this week
<sbeattie> I'm again working on testing stuff, particularly IPC, in support of the development work jjohansen is doing.
<sbeattie> I've also been picking up other odds and ends on the apparmor front
<sbeattie> Oh, I'm trying to fix the daily build ppa breakage (my fault, mostly)
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm working on an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> I need to help jjohansen prep for the AppArmor sessions at LSS (Linux Security Summit)
<tyhicks> I'll be attending Plumbers (and probably some of LSS) this week
<tyhicks> I also need to scrape through the apparmor list and get patches committed
<tyhicks> (mainly the C++ patches that have been acked)
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am prepping for and attending Linux Security Summit (LSS) this week. We have 2 presentations and a status update around apparmor and the security work for ubuntu touch
<jdstrand> nice
<jjohansen> I will also try to get up a test kernel for some of the ipc and stacking but that will depend on how the prep goes
<jjohansen> that's it for me sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm in my happy place this week; this week and next week are short weeks, friday and monday off. I'm doing mostly MIR audits, only Mir, unity-system-compositor, gunicorn, and open-vm-tools remain :) but only two, maybe three, likely this week.
<sarnold> sorry I've been neglecting the apparmor patches, if there's anything that's not yet received a review from someone else, you guys can ping me on it specific and I'll give it a look
<sarnold> but "all 78 mails" would be a while :) hehe
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: your turn
<chrisccoulson> i had a short week last week, and it feels like it's been ages since my last meeting ;)
 * jjohansen notes to do a push just for sarnold
<chrisccoulson> i got flash updated last week. this week, it's firefox and thunderbird (and a big one for thunderbird, 17 -> 24)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: welcome! :)
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> i worked on automated testing for oxide. will hopefully finish that this week
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: sorry if I'm dense-- you've been working on and planning to work on oxide automated testing/
<jdstrand> ?
 * jdstrand couldn't fully parse chrisccoulson's stand-up
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, i've been working on adding automated tests since last week
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: ok, for some reason that is not listed on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1308-oxide. can you add a work item for that and mark it INPROGRESS?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, ah, sure. in future, all features will come with tests. the work i'm doing now is adding tests retrospectively, as it depended on adding support for exchanging messages with content scripts, which was quite a bit of work :)
<jdstrand> yeah, I bet
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: cool, thanks for that :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xymon.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libsdp.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/kronolith2.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/citadel.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xml-light.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: so, the only thing I was going to ask about was seeing if sarnold could help out with updates, but with his short week and the number of audits, that seems like 'no'
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: yeah, that's fine...the mirs are more pressing for now
<jdstrand> well, soon there will be help
<jdstrand> it is hard to beleive that 13.10 will be released in like 5 weeks
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 16 17:35:46 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-16-17.08.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-16-17.08.html
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<sarnold> yeah, five weeks seems terrifyingly close
<sarnold> I installed the phone for the first time over the weekend and while I was stunned at how much has been done, it still feels like there's a lot left to finish up..
<jdstrand> sarnold: there are a number of bugs that are quite annoying/highly visible, but they are known
<jdstrand> but all the teams are working on their parts to finish what they started and fix bugs/polish
<jdstrand> things are postponed, etc. plans are made to land stuff. we'll get there
<sarnold> it looks to be an exciting five weeks :)
<cjwatson> Anyone else here for the TB meeting?
<stgraber> I am
<cjwatson> kees,soren: ?
<stgraber> looks like we've got an empty agenda anyway and only thing on the ML is a provisional MRE for kde-telepathy (which can be handled there), so if nobody else shows up in the next 5min or so, I guess we can just ship that one
<kees> here now
<stgraber> hey kees
<cjwatson> So, quorate, but do we have anything to discuss? :)
<cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-September/001714.html is the MRE in question
<kees> re-reading now
<cjwatson> I'm inclined to look favourably on that since it only affects KDE and they already have an established updates policy for other things
<stgraber> I'm +1 on that one
<kees> yeah, me too. +1
<stgraber> it's a provisional SRU for a single version, affects a single flavour and I believe KDE has a good track record so far
<cjwatson> so, less verbosely, +1
<cjwatson> sold
<kees> ship it :)
<cjwatson> anything else for today?
<stgraber> nothing else here
<cjwatson> I haven't seen any reply from Mark on elections
<cjwatson> But pitti isn't here to ask
<cjwatson> And I think Mark was on holiday for a while anyway
<stgraber> I'll poke pitti at Plumbers if I can remember
<kees> cool.
<stgraber> kees: are you coming this year?
<kees> stgraber: yup, flying in tomorrow.
<stgraber> cool, see you there then
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-17
<adam_g> o/
<smoser> o/
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 17 16:02:46 2013 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<zul> hilo
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak> * everyone spend extra time triaging bugs this week
<rbasak> I hope everyone's been busy. I'll drop this from the agenda for next week unless anyone disagrees?
<rbasak> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Saucy Development
<rbasak> Release Tracking Bug Tasks - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/horizon/+bug/1221906
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1221906 in OpenStack Dashboard (Horizon) "Havana-3 Dependency missing: python-troveclient" [Undecided,In progress]
<adam_g> thats fixed
<adam_g> ill update
<rbasak> Thanks!
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1208455
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress]
<rbasak> Is smb working on this? I don't see any other relevant person.
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ceph/+bug/1213915
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1213915 in ceph (Ubuntu Saucy) "Please demote ceph-mds and ceph-fs-common to universe" [High,New]
<rbasak> Any volunteers to deal with demoting these packages?
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/1206872
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba fails to unpack (behavior change in patch) and ftbfs on aarch64" [High,Incomplete]
<rbasak> doko: is there any further action needed here?
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1156932
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [High,Confirmed]
<doko> rbasak, ?
<rbasak> doko: in bug 1206872 - it's marked Incomplete now
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba fails to unpack (behavior change in patch) and ftbfs on aarch64" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<rbasak> Any volunteers for https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1156932 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [High,Confirmed]
<rbasak> zul: how's https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nova/+bug/1199791 going?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged]
<zul> still not fixed
<doko> rbasak, let's wait until the buildds pick it up
<doko> rbasak, any news about mysql-5.5?
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nagios-plugins/+bug/1031680 is still here. I've been treating it as low priority for Saucy - it's non-trivial. Though it affects Ubuntu only, upstream don't have a fix either.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1031680 in nagios-plugins (Ubuntu Raring) "check_apt always report 0 critical updates" [High,Triaged]
<rbasak> (though there is a workaround avialable)
<rbasak> Can we drop this from tracking in Saucy maybe?
<rbasak> doko: I noticed you commented on bug 1162139 earlier. I had thought "pending" meant that Clint would upload to Debian soon.
<ubottu> bug 1162139 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Saucy) "mysql-5.5 still built using GCC-4.4, should be built with the default GCC" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162139
<rbasak> I'll take a look again.
 * rbasak assigns himself
<doko> rbasak, just asking because gcc-4.4 ftbfs now, and I don't have any interest to fix that
<doko> thanks
<doko> which meeting am I hijacking here?
<rbasak> doko: server team. You're in the right place for that bug :)
<doko> ohh, good =)
<doko> and maybe watch http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20130917-saucy.html ... just started today
<rbasak> I'll assign smb to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1208455 and see if he objects
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress]
<rbasak> smoser: can you assign people to bug 1206872 and bug 1156932 please?
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba fails to unpack (behavior change in patch) and ftbfs on aarch64" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<ubottu> bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156932
<smoser> rbasak, i'll look at them.
<rbasak> Thanks!
<smoser> #action smoser look at / assign bug 1206872 and bug 1156932
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser look at / assign bug 1206872 and bug 1156932
<rbasak> I'll drop the saucy target for bug 1031680
<ubottu> bug 1031680 in nagios-plugins (Ubuntu Raring) "check_apt always report 0 critical updates" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031680
<rbasak> smoser: also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ceph/+bug/1213915
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1213915 in ceph (Ubuntu Saucy) "Please demote ceph-mds and ceph-fs-common to universe" [High,New]
<rbasak> I think that's what I meant before actually, sorry.
<rbasak> #topic Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<rbasak> smoser: what would you like to me to do with the blueprints?
<smoser> just a reminder...
<smoser> please keep blueprints up to date.
<smoser> i'm looking at you, smoser.
<rbasak> :)
<smoser> we can go one.
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> s/one/on/
<rbasak> Anything coming up?
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<rbasak> psivaa: hello!
<psivaa> Nothing much, except bug #1207675 is imapacting lxc smoke tests,
<ubottu> bug 1207675 in Ubuntu Test Cases "test_lxc_api test fails during container creation " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207675
<psivaa> hallyn was an MP to possibly fix, not sure if that MP has landed
<psivaa> *expecting
<psivaa> probably lxc 1.0-alpha
<psivaa> that's all :)
<rbasak> Thanks psivaa. hallyn doesn't appear to be around, so I'll move on.
<psivaa> sure
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<rbasak> smb is also not around.
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> I have no updates. Any questions for me?
<rbasak> Oh, one note: I'm waiting on an FFe: bug 1194632
<ubottu> bug 1194632 in cpu-checker (Ubuntu) "[FFe] kvm-ok Support for ARM Architecture is Missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1194632
<rbasak> It'd be nice to see KVM working well on ARM in Saucy
<rbasak> We'll see if it happens.
<rbasak> (as we have a patch for kvm-ok)
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
<rbasak> Anything from the floor?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rbasak> roaksoax: you're at the front of the rota now. Will you be able to chair next week, or else how should I rearrange the list?
<roaksoax> rbasak: works for me, thanks
<rbasak> The next meeting will be Tue, 24 Sep 2013 16:00 +0000. The chair will be roaksoax. Thanks!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 17 16:28:08 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-17-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-17-16.02.html
<arosales> rbasak, thanks for chairing
<rbasak> np
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 17 16:59:55 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<ppisati> o/
<arges> o/
<bjf> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> A fix for omap4's wifi landed in S/master-next, together with another
<ppisati> revision of the dtb concatenation patch for flash-kernel (still waiting
<ppisati> for maintainer's review on this one).
<ppisati> Work on supporting the TI AM35XX soc (Beaglebone&c) for the S multiplatform
<ppisati> kernel has started.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || cking     || foundations-1308-power-measurement || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || foundations-1308-kernel            || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || foundations-1305-kernel            || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-s-virtstack            || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || servercloud-s-openstack-hypervisor || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have just rebased to the first v3.11.1 upstream stable kernel and
<ogasawara> uploaded.  We will continue to track the upstream stable v3.11.x
<ogasawara> releases as we move forward.  I would like to point out that we are
<ogasawara> ~2weeks away from Kernel Freeze on Thurs Oct 3.  Any patches submitted
<ogasawara> after Kernel Freeze are subject to our SRU policy.  I'll send an email
<ogasawara> reminder to the Ubuntu Kernel Team mailing list regarding the upcoming
<ogasawara> freeze as well.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 19 - Final Beta Freeze (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 26 - Final Beta (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 03 - Kernel Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 10 - Final Freeze (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 17 - 13.10 Release (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> == 2013-09-17 ==
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Sept. 17):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   * Raring  - Verification & Testing
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 17 17:04:01 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-17-16.59.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-17-16.59.html
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<apw> jsalisbury, see ya
<mapreri> can someone take care to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards putting the day of the today meeting (instead of the one occurred on 08/21)?
<costales> Hi! :)
<costales> Hi SergioMeneses
<SergioMeneses> costales, czajkowski PabloRubianes \o
<PabloRubianes> hi SergioMeneses
<costales> o/
<czajkowski> aloha
<costales> hi czajkowski PabloRubianes SergioMeneses
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 17 20:11:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> and welcome to this months LoCo Council meeting
<czajkowski> #chair costales PabloRubianes SergioMeneses czajkowski
<meetingology> Current chairs: PabloRubianes SergioMeneses costales czajkowski
<costales> Hi! \o/
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<czajkowski> First team up tonight for reverfication is the Danish LoCo
<PabloRubianes> #subtopic Ubuntu Danmark Local Community
<czajkowski> #topic Danish LoCo re verification
<PabloRubianes> sorry czajkowski
<czajkowski> anyone here from the Danish LoCo
<czajkowski> PabloRubianes: np :)
<Zilvador> Yes o/
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Danish LoCo re verification
<sbc> o/
<nicky441> Yes
<czajkowski> welcome
<PabloRubianes> welcome!
<AJenbo> o/
<SergioMeneses> greetings ubuntu danmark!
<Zilvador> Thank you
<costales> welcome!
<czajkowski> #link  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-dk/ReApprovalApplication2013
<czajkowski> So how are things
<costales> and good luck!
<Zilvador> Things are going relatively good.
<Zilvador> Admittedly we have not had as many events as we would like to recently.
<czajkowski> Zilvador: it comes in waves :)
<czajkowski> Zilvador: how does your team get people involved in running evets?
<Zilvador> This is a consecuence of a decrease of partifcipation. For this reason we are currently reorganising and plan to make up a new strategy to attract more users...old as well as new ones
<SergioMeneses> Zilvador,  that sounds great! and what do you have in mind?
<Zilvador> Our greatest tool, so to speak, is our very active forum.
<czajkowski> nods
<Zilvador> Here we connect to a very large number of users and help them to solve general Ubuntu issues as well as discuss relevant topics.
<Zilvador> Additionally we have mailing lists and irc channels which are used on daily or weekly basis, depending on need and participation
<SergioMeneses> Zilvador, good one
<costales> I saw a lot of installfest in the reports https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-dk/TeamReports :) Do you have some pictures?
<PabloRubianes> Zilvador: nice, you have meetups?, not events but like get together to have pizza?
<czajkowski> #link http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-dk/events/history/
<czajkowski> amazing amount of events
<czajkowski> well done folks
<Zilvador> SergioMeneses: First of all we are planning to reach out to users both through our forum (as said, we have many users), but also through our Facebook page, seeing as how it is a very important tool for communication today
<Zilvador> costales: I asked the organizers just the other day. Unfortunately they have not made pictures, though we have asked them to :)
<SergioMeneses> social media is always a good tool :)
<costales> Zilvador, OK :) Don't worry
<costales> What happened with the Ubuntu Cafe in 2012? It they didn't work? :)
<Zilvador> PabloRubianes: The current community is very spread out. Weekly meeting happen it two cities in Denmark and we hope to reinitiate meeting previously held with success in another city.
<PabloRubianes> Zilvador: where's any issue you would like to share with the council to see if we can help you?
<PabloRubianes> Zilvador: good :)
<Zilvador> PabloRubianes: We would greatly appreciate if the council could give advice or share experiences regarding catching peoples attention to the work and events of the local community
<Zilvador> Our current problem is exactly that...we lack attention. We have experimented both with online commercials and posters previously, but so far we have not reached as far out as we hoped to.
<PabloRubianes> Zilvador: that's the hardest part of the LoCo, I found really useful for my LoCo to have meetings every month even for just a coffee
<PabloRubianes> and use google hangouts
<Zilvador> Google hangouts might be a good idea. We will take this into consideration
<PabloRubianes> Zilvador: the Brazilian team does Q+A session on hangouts on Air and for them are really useful
<PabloRubianes> Zilvador: irc is not as fun as hangouts :P
<Zilvador> Also, informal meetings were initially a few friends just meet up to hopefully receive more potentials have been considered. These are among our plans for motivating future events and meetings.
<PabloRubianes> i don't know if SergioMeneses or costales want to add anything else to this
<Zilvador> PabloRubianes: We actually have a dedicated IRC channel for Q+A. An idea though might be to use this one for events as well or to turn it into a weekly hangout :)
<costales> It's OK for me, ubuntu-dk did a great work :)
<Zilvador> That could be a good idea
<czajkowski> #voters costales PabloRubianes SergioMeneses czajkowski
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes SergioMeneses costales czajkowski
<costales> +1
<czajkowski> #vote please vote on the reverification of the Danish LoCo
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on the reverification of the Danish LoCo
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<czajkowski> +1 well done great work
<meetingology> +1 well done great work received from czajkowski
<costales> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from costales
<czajkowski> PabloRubianes: SergioMeneses
<PabloRubianes> +1 nice work and good luck in the new plans
<meetingology> +1 nice work and good luck in the new plans received from PabloRubianes
<SergioMeneses> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from SergioMeneses
<czajkowski> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on the reverification of the Danish LoCo
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<czajkowski> well done folks
 * sbc cheers
<costales> Congrats team and thanks! Keep the hard work! :)
<Christian_Arvai> thx
<Zilvador> Thank you very much! :)
<czajkowski> PabloRubianes: SergioMeneses costales which one of you wnat to add them to https://launchpad.net/~locoteams-verified
<AJenbo> !
<nicky441> We will indeed :) And thanks
<Zilvador> We have actually one more thing to ask. If possible, we would appreciate it if we could receive more cd's with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS for handing out
<PabloRubianes> czajkowski: o/
<costales> czajkowski, I can :)
<czajkowski> PabloRubianes: ok you do this one :)
<czajkowski> costales: you're next
<costales> ok ;)
<czajkowski> #topic Arizona LoCo Re verification
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Arizona LoCo Re verification
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam/ApprovalApplicationrenewal2013
<czajkowski> anyone here from Arizona ?
<costales> ping ubuntu-arizona :)
<czajkowski> toddc: aloha
<toddc> HI we were trying to get on the schedule for next month
<costales> Hi toddc :) Good luck!
<czajkowski> toddc: do you want to wait till then ?
<czajkowski> we're free now if you want to chat
<toddc> I am here and free but but do have othe members availible  ATM
<toddc> I can answer most questions
<czajkowski> toddc: sure :)
<costales> toddc, You have a lot of events! awesome!
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam/ApprovalApplicationrenewal2013
<czajkowski> Firstly let me say what an amazing application
<toddc> we have had a lot of growth over the last year--thank you
<czajkowski> it's lovely to see how active you guys are
<PabloRubianes> yes
<czajkowski> toddc: how has that come about ?
<PabloRubianes> really impressive!
<costales> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-arizona/events/history/
<toddc> we have a lot of luck working with other groups and schools
<czajkowski> #link http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-arizona/events/history/
<czajkowski> you've had 46 events this year so far! OMG!
<czajkowski> toddc: can you tell us a little about that ?
<toddc> started with a monly installfest with another group and it has had a steady growth with more and more interest
<costales> toddc, Are the installfest working well? Because you are doing a lot of them! :O Is there still someone without Ubuntu in Arizona? :P :D
<toddc> we have expanded the installfests to include home servers and router mods --almost anything linux
<costales> ;)
<costales> good idea
<toddc> the installfests have been a great place to work on projects with a good support system
<PabloRubianes> nice way to work
<toddc> streaming events is starting to expand our reach a bit also
<czajkowski> oh good idea
<costales> Do you have any issue? or things where the Council can help with?
<toddc> not at the moment training new members and finding good guides to membership is our next focus
<costales> great :)
<czajkowski> great :)
<czajkowski> toddc: any other comments?
<toddc> none atm
<czajkowski> #vote please vote on the re verfication of the Arizona Team
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on the re verfication of the Arizona Team
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<czajkowski> +1 amazing work, love the installfests!
<meetingology> +1 amazing work, love the installfests! received from czajkowski
<costales> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from costales
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<PabloRubianes> keep working!
<costales> You did an awesome work! Thanks ubuntu-arizona! :D
<toddc> thank you all for the helping us stay active
<czajkowski> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on the re verfication of the Arizona Team
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<czajkowski> excellent work folks
<czajkowski> costales: please update the Arizona team info on https://launchpad.net/~locoteams-verified
<costales> Added to https://launchpad.net/~locoteams-verified
<czajkowski> yay
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 17 20:47:37 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-17-20.11.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-17-20.11.html
<czajkowski> thank you all for coming
<PabloRubianes> thanks czajkowski
<costales> Thanks czajkowski
<PabloRubianes> toddc: have a sec to a PM?
<costales> Best regards and thanks to both teams :)
<toddc> yes
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-18
<bluesabre> dholback, thanks for getting lightdm-gtk-greeter uploaded this morning :)
<knome> +1!
<ochosi> +1
<jared> !rmb
<ubottu> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, amachu, and bkerensa. Meeting time.
<knome> hey jared, before we start: bluesabre added his entry to the list today on my request; he was in a meeting a year ago and basically asked to contribute for a few more months for a membership, so i thought we might have a go today.
<jared> knome: no problems,w e do them in the order they're added so if we run out of time they might have to wait that's all. But I'd imagine as long as the other board members arrive we should e fine to get through the list tonight
<knome> jared, yep, that's what i though. thanks :)
<knome> thought too... the typing doesn't work today.
<mapreri> jared: do you know that in the wiki still write the last meeting day (the on run in August..)
<jared> mapreri: unfortuantely we didn't update it, but it was updated recently to be correct.
<mapreri> jared: great :)
<JackYu> Hi, everyone.
<mihir> hey
<knome> jared, so how many members do you have to have to be qualified?
<iulian> There are just 3 members of the RMB online at the moment. We're waiting for another one in order to be able to reach quorum.
<jared> knome: we need 4 and I think our 4th just arrived.
<knome> mhm
<knome> yay for quorum
<Destine> #startmeeting 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 18 12:09:57 2013 UTC.  The chair is Destine. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<iulian> 1200 UTC.
<Destine> oops.
<Destine> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Destine: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<iulian> You can probably #endmeeting and start again?
<Destine> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 18 12:10:35 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-18-12.09.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-18-12.09.html
<Destine> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 18 12:10:46 2013 UTC.  The chair is Destine. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<Destine> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for September 18, 2013.
<Destine> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<Destine> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<Destine> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<Destine> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<Destine> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<Destine> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<Destine> So, is everyone ready?
<bluesabre> Yes :)
<mapreri> sure! :)
<mihir> Destine: Yes
<knome> most definitely
<JackYu> yes
<WebbyIT> yes :)
<Destine> JackYu?
<JackYu> Destine, hi
<Destine> JackYu, please introduce yourself to us.
<JackYu> Hello, everyone. Iâm Jack Yu from China.
<iulian> Hi there.
<lderan> hello JackYu :D
<JackYu> I started my Ubuntu contribution since 2011. Iâm now the lead of UbuntuKylin, a flavor of Ubuntu.
<JackYu> Here is my wiki:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JackYu
<JackYu> lderan, :)
<iulian> "Spread Ubuntu/UbuntuKylin to all around in China" -- China is a big country. :)
<Jonaszhang> internet make the whole world small:)
<jared> JackYu: quick question, what does Kylin translate to or stand for?
<JackYu> jared, it's a legend in China.
<jared> Ah ok, was doing a quick google and kept coming up with the Ubuntu variation rather than the actual details. Apparently google has learnt all my searching habits well.
<JackYu> iulian, yes:)
<Destine> JackYu, I think it is a holy animal in chinese legend.
<Destine> #voters iulian jared Pendulum Destine
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum iulian jared
<JackYu> Destine, yes, and it stands for good luck:)
<Destine> JackYu, please tell us about your contributions.
<JackYu> Destine, sure. My contributions involve many aspects. I think the most important one is to spread Ubuntu to more Chinese.
<JackYu> Destine, Firstly, I make it popular in my university.
<JackYu> Destine, and then, I started to create a Chinese flavor, with my partners.
<JackYu> Destine, and now, we are happily work on it.
<Destine> JackYu, sounds good.
<iulian> JackYu: Thank you for the information.
<JackYu> Destine, and some of my partners are  here to support me:)
<ypwong> JackYu has burnt much midnight oil for the ubuntukylin releases :)
<Destine> #vote JackYu to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: JackYu to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<iulian> +1 from me. Keep up the good work and as you promised, spread Ubuntu all around China.
<jared> +1 good work JackYu I think you have a big task ahead of you but you've come a long way already
<meetingology> +1 from me. Keep up the good work and as you promised, spread Ubuntu all around China. received from iulian
<meetingology> +1 good work JackYu I think you have a big task ahead of you but you've come a long way already received from jared
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<Destine> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: JackYu to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<JackYu> Thanks, you guys:).
<iulian> JackYu: Congrats.
<WebbyIT> congrats JackYu :)
<ypwong> JackYu, yay, congratulations
<Destine> JackYu, Congratulations.
<bluesabre> congratulations JackYu!
<Pendulum> JackYu: congrats and welcome!
<mapreri> congratulation, JackYu !
<iulian> (Added to ~ubuntumembers just now.)
<Destine> #subtopic WebbyIT
<Destine> WebbyIT, you there?
<JackYu> Thanks again, all:).
<WebbyIT> Destine, yes :)
 * popey is here to cheer for WebbyIT 
<WebbyIT> Hi all, my name is Riccardo Padovani, (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RiccardoPadovani) from Italy. I'm a studend of Computer Science at first year
<WebbyIT> I'm involved in italian LoCo since 2012: I admin the italian website and I have founded 'Chiedi' a Q&A site likes AskUbuntu, but based on open-source software; in these days I'm organizing our meeting. I also collaborate with others project, likes weekly newsletter
<WebbyIT> Since July I started to contribute to Ubuntu Touch core apps. Thanks to dpm, popey and boiko support now I am in ubuntu-calculator-app dev team, and I work also on others apps
<popey> WebbyIT has been an excellent contributor to the Ubuntu Touch Core Apps project. Reliable, self-directed, motivated, friendly. Exactly the kind of person I'd like to see as a member.
<WebbyIT> For the future I want to expand my contribute in ubuntu touch and continue commitments in my Loco. In these days I'm studing, with the rest of web team, a restyling of our site
<WebbyIT> popey, thanks :)
<mihir> He is committed and dedicated to his work all the time :)
<mihir> he helps all the contributers all the time when needed
<jared> popey: and the involvement has been sustained?
<popey> jared: yup
<dpm> I agree with popey: Riccardo has been a key part of getting the Calculator app for Ubuntu Touch to the near-1.0 release it's on now
<popey> jared: more than we asked for.
<jared> popey: awesome, always nice to see contributions being kept up.
<dpm> he's communicative, has got initiative and learns really fast the quirks of Touch development
<Trevinho> The involvement of WebbyIT in italian LoCo and event organization is also remarkable... His wiki testimonials already say it, but it's something I also want to remark
<Destine> dpm, good to see you here.
<jared> WebbyIT: nice wiki application by the way, you've been coached well
<WebbyIT> jared, thanks :)
<Destine> #vote WebbyIT to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<dpm> hi Destine, long time no see :)
<meetingology> Please vote on: WebbyIT to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<mihir> +1
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<mihir> +1
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<iulian> mihir: Only board members are allowed to vote.
<jared> +1 great work, great support and nice application
<meetingology> +1 great work, great support and nice application received from jared
<mihir> iulian: it was my mistake
<Destine> people who are not in the board please do not vote.
<Destine> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: WebbyIT to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<WebbyIT> thanks guys :)
<iulian> Luckily, meetingology is quite clever.
<popey> \o/
<iulian> WebbyIT: Congratulations and keep up the great work you're doing!
<Destine> WebbyIT, Congratulations.
<popey> Congratulations WebbyIT
<mapreri> WebbyIT: congratulation!! :D
<bluesabre> congrats WebbyIT!
<mihir> WebbyIT: Congratulations :)
<iulian> And thanks for all the guys who cheered for him.
<WebbyIT> thanks to all :)
<clue_h> congrats
<popey> WebbyIT: look forward to seeing blogging about Ubuntu touch on planet ubuntu ã
<Destine> #subtopic mapreri
<WebbyIT> popey, ahahha yeah, I have to open a blog :P
<Destine> mapreri, you there?
<mapreri> Destine: sure :)
<mapreri> Hi! I'm Mattia, and 18-years-old Italian guy (wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MattiaRizzolo lp: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri). I mainly contribute through the Italian LoCo (since a couple of years ago, even if I ask for the ubuntu-it membership only in March) but recently I started to be involved in packaging, with the help of some ubuntu devs (like warp10, but also pitti sponsored a package I merged from debian). In my loco I take care of
<mapreri> the translation if FCM and I write articles for the Italian newsletter (and publishing articles on the ubuntu-it website), aside from contributing in varius team (where I can help); I'm also one of the people that admin the social media releations of the LoCo (g+, fb and twitter). Of course I help the spread of Ubuntu all around me (and all around Italy, if possible) ;)
<Destine> mapreri, please introduce yourself to us.
<jared> WebbyIT: well done, thanks for making our job so easy. Like the others I look forward to reading your blog
<mapreri> Destine: just done :)
<iulian> mapreri: Do you plan to get more involved with the MOTUs?
<warp10> Being one mentor of mapreri during his journey toward MOTUness, I'd wish to remark his committment and engagement. I was quite impressed by how fast he gained skills and his care for details, something important in the packaging world. Definitely a well-deserved membership
<WebbyIT> I met mapreri in italian loco, he is very enthusiastic, he totally deserves the membership
<mapreri> iulian: sure, but before applying I have to do a lot of more practice :)
<iulian> mapreri: I haven't said that you should apply for MOTU membership. Just wanted to know your plans in the future. :)
<mapreri> iulian: oh, it should be fine anyway ;)
<jared> mapreri: how is the marketing going? Do you have a particular focus?
<Trevinho> I can also confirm the mapreri involvment in Italian LoCo is strong and sustained
<mapreri> jared: the social-media team (as you can read on my wiki page) it was founded in February and started to operate in March. For now there are not-so-many innovation, even if someone told us that they know Ubuntu thanks to us. The marketing team in Italy is something dead, as in whole, even if some sub-team (e.g socialmedia and newsletter) are still active. I hope we can get the team up again. For now I'm not focus in anything particular
 * knome quietly hums in the background: humhum, humptidum...
<jared> knome: sorry, just reading up links, etc
<knome> no problem; just entertaining the crows
<knome> *crowd
<jared> A crowd of crows perhaps?
<knome> that.
<knome> my chair sounds like one...
<bluesabre> sounds dangerous
<mapreri> umh...
<jared> mapreri: just reading the links from your wiki to get a feel to ensure the contributions are sustained, sorry for the delay
<Destine> #vote mapreri to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: mapreri to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<jared> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jared
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<Destine> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: mapreri to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<iulian> mapreri: Congratulations and welcome aboard!
<bluesabre> yay, congrats mapreri!
<Destine> Congratulations, mapreri
<mapreri> Yeah!!
<jared> Well done mapreri, I look forward to hearing how you've gone on to be a great MOTU
<mapreri> thank you all :D
<Destine> #subtopic bluesabre
<Destine> bluesabre, you there?
<bluesabre> hello Destine :)
<warp10> mapreri, WebbyIT: well done. And now I want the beers you bribed me with ;)
 * knome picks up the ratchet and starts making noise
<Destine> bluesabre, please introduce yourself.
<bluesabre> I'm Sean Davis (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis), a Xubuntu team member and developer, and contributor since 2011
<bluesabre> I've been working with the Xubuntu team since the beginning of my contributions, when I first started reporting bugs
<bluesabre> I've applied previously (a year ago), and now I'm back to try again: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-06-22.12.log.html
<bluesabre> Please let me know if you have any questions :)
<iulian> Yeah, remember you. :)
<iulian> "22:47:30 <bluesabre> Bummer.  Thanks everyone for your consideration, I'll be back sometime after Quantal comes out.  :-)"
<iulian> And here you are. :)
<knome> i'm the xubuntu project lead; sean has been very helpful from the beginning, and since he has picked up development, he has become even more significant contributor for xubuntu. i'm waiting to get to include pretty much everything sean has done to xubuntu, to make it better.
<knome> including a light menu editor and an app to control user preferences
<Unit193> I'm part of the xubuntu team as well, and he's quite helpful.
<iulian> Very good.
<ochosi> xubuntu artwork lead here, just chiming in on that ^
<jared> bluesabre: good to see you weren't too dejected after the last attempt and have been open and honest about it now.
 * iulian nods.
<iulian> Am really happy you came back.
<bluesabre> jared, iulian: I enjoy working with everyone, couldn't really stay away :)
<jared> knome, Unit193 and ochosi - is it fair to say bluesabre 's contributions have continued and not dropped off?
<knome> we want to make bluesabre a package uploader, and i think being a ubuntu member is a nice step towards that as well
<knome> jared, most definitely! and he's definitely delivering, not just planning and speaking!
<Unit193> jared: Of course he has some real life stuff at times, but I'd be worried if he didn't. ;P
<Destine> OK, let's vote.
<Destine> #vote bluesabre to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: bluesabre to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<jared> Unit193: that's no worries, we all have those. I'm on an extended one myself now (due to studying I've dropped a few teams).
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<jared> +1 great work, glad to see you came back and I look forward to hearing great things
<meetingology> +1 great work, glad to see you came back and I look forward to hearing great things received from jared
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<ochosi> (a bit late now, but yeah, continous contribution, rather increased than dropped off)
<Destine> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: bluesabre to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<knome> yay! congrats bluesabre!
<Destine> Congratulations, bluesabre
<bluesabre> wow, thanks everyone!
<iulian> ... and now he's a member of ~ubuntumembers.
<iulian> Congrats.
 * bluesabre celebrates
<knome> thanks for the board for making and running the meeting :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Woo!
<WebbyIT> congrats bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> yes, thanks board :D
<Destine> Everybody, thank you for coming to this meeting. We will call it a meeting. :)
<Destine> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 18 12:53:27 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-18-12.10.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-18-12.10.html
<jared> It was a great meeting, it's been a while since we've been able to +1 everyone on the list
<bluesabre> yeah, thats pretty awesome
<bluesabre> thanks guys, have a great day!
<WebbyIT> \o/ fantastic guys :)
<ochosi> congrats bluesabre  wooo!
<ochosi> bluesabre: and well deserved too!
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi
<Unit193> jared: Also howdy.
<jared> Unit193: long time no see
<mapreri> Thanks again ;D
<mapreri> jared: are you going to clear the list or have us to do it of our own?
<mapreri> You=the board
<ochosi> slangasek: ping
<slangasek> ochosi: hello
<ochosi> sorry to ping you a bit out of context, but robert_ancell pointed me to you as "the man who knows"
<ochosi> (logind that is)
<slangasek> ochosi: #ubuntu-devel would probably be better?
<ochosi> oops
<ochosi> indeed
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-19
<ghostcube> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9b9bxUyK0o  xD
<akerbeltz> am I too late for the l10n  session?
<dholbach> akerbeltz, nope, the meeting will start in 13m
<akerbeltz> thanx, i miscalculated UTC to GMT it turns out
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<dholbach> o/
<pleia2> #chair dholbach czajkowski beuno
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 19 17:00:35 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<meetingology> Current chairs: beuno czajkowski dholbach pleia2
<hannie> hello CC
<beuno> hello hello!
<pleia2> welcome to the Community Council meeting :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<pleia2> #chair Gwaihir
<meetingology> Current chairs: Gwaihir beuno czajkowski dholbach pleia2
<akerbeltz> hi
<dholbach> so it seems we have people from the translations community here! *\o/*
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<pleia2> ^^ Agenda
<pleia2> #topic Translations Community Check-in
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Translations Community Check-in
<pleia2> so with these check-ins we just see how the team is doing, if there are any issues that we can help with, etc
<dholbach> welcome hannie and akerbeltz - anyone else here from the translations community?
<hannie> thanks for the welcome
<Geochr> dholbach, Hi from Greek team
<dholbach> how are you doing? how are things in the translations world? :)
<dholbach> welcome Geochr!
<hannie> Well, we can start translating now (freeze). Most of the messages are translated alreaddy
<hannie> *already
<pleia2> yay freeze day \o/
<dholbach> do you have good communication channels to most of the teams? (like: are they all on the mailing list and so on?)
<hannie> There is a mailing list for translators which we use frequently. It works well.
<hannie> All translation team members can communicate via this mailing list
<hannie> ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> great, so all the team should know about the freeze date and everything
<dholbach> I think I remember language pack creation from our last meeting to having been a bit of a problem - is that still the case?
<hannie> I haven' t mentioned the freeze on the translators list. Perhaps I should do so
<pleia2> hannie: probably a good idea :)
<dholbach> yeah, a "ready? set? go!" message might help :-)
<hannie> dholbach, I offered my help with the language pack updates
<hannie> But Milo Casagrande, who offered to help me get on the way, has not contacted me yet
<pleia2> that's Gwaihir
<akerbeltz> pleia2 told me it's ok to just bring up any issues - we (GunChleoc and me) had some specific problems with the Gaelic localization (rogue translator) but I think they have wider implications. At the moment there seems to be no efficient way of dealing with rogue translators globally on Launchapd and there is also no way of purging really bad translations
<pleia2> Gwaihir: can you follow up with hannie?
<dholbach> akerbeltz, did you talk to other teams to find out how they dealt with similar issues in the past?
<akerbeltz> yes
<hannie> ah, those nicks :)
<Gwaihir> pleia2, hannie, I will, and I need to chase the other person who offered help, since I didn't hear from him
<hannie> Gwaihir, ok, I will wait and see...
<akerbeltz> mostly they suggested managing the issue via teams but the problem is that there are projects/packages on Launchpad which are *outside* the main Ubuntu files (such as Linux Mint). This left us in the position of having to chase the owners of individual projects
<akerbeltz> which is problematic as they, on the whole, cannot tell if a translator is good or bad in his or her language
<akerbeltz> it also costs a LOT of time
<dholbach> akerbeltz, were you able to reach out to the translator to try to integrate them better into the team?
<hannie> akerbeltz, I saw that this rogue translator has withdrawn from Launchpad
<akerbeltz> I have been trying to (very diplomatically initially) talk to the guy in question for over a year now but in a nutshell, he though he was the beezneez and eventually I had to be more clear about the quality implications. at that point he resigned from the Ubuntu team for gd. But sadly he then started picking on projects that are not "covered" by that team
<akerbeltz> yes he has now left but for the future, I think there ought to be a better process of handling rogue translators globally. I'm sure we are not the only locale in danger of those
<hannie> I think the best option is to make a team moderate or restricted
<hannie> When a team is open, anyone can have their translations accepted immediately
<akerbeltz> but that does not seem to work globally
<GunChleoc> The proble is that we're not talking about problems in a team here, we're talking about somebody goind off on a rampage across a whole language. There are mutilpe teams on Launchpad
<czajkowski> +1
<Geochr> akerbeltz, Try to contact with the owner of the project
<GunChleoc> And of course a team leader will gladly accept somebody to start a new localization not knowing if the person is any good
<hannie> GunChleoc, the problem is that Linux Mint is an open team
<czajkowski> it can be difficult as you do want people to be involved
<czajkowski> is there possibly a way to mentor soeone
<czajkowski> *someone
<GunChleoc> Oh, I see. It proves my point though
<GunChleoc> When somebody refuses mentorship, no.
<czajkowski> see if they've done some transalations and then let them translate more
<akerbeltz> Yes but that means that once you spot a rogue, you then have to chase him across all projects, that costs a lot of time and in most cases, the project owners cannot tell good from bad
<GunChleoc> It's easy when you have a bog language like, say, German with over 1000 contributors, there are enough people to know about quality and so forth. In a small language, things are more difficult
<akerbeltz> some translators are so bad mentoring is not an option, we're not talking debates about a comma or a typo here or there, we're talking barely fluent people
<czajkowski> akerbeltz: that is up to the owners of the project imo. I saw many mails when I worked in launchpad of people not likeing translations and it's difficult to police
<hannie> czajkowski, or the LoCo perhaps?
<akerbeltz> but that causes serious quality issues down the line - if you owned a project and there were two Gaelic translators arguing that the other party is producing bad stuff, how could you judge? and if you just step back and say "you sort it out" then in the end the end user suffers because they get gibberish on screen. which does not help the image of Ubuntu/Linux
<Geochr> akerbeltz, A solution is to create a team (not open) and to contact with the owner of the project to change the translation permissions into the "official" translationteam
<akerbeltz> we tried that
<akerbeltz> the rogue then came back with a whole lot of aggro
<akerbeltz> and the owner then change it back to "open" because he (rightly) said he could not judge
<dholbach> I think that or similar stories have happened across quite some teams
<akerbeltz> i'm sure it has
<akerbeltz> which is why I wanted to raise it
<Geochr> if the owner change the permission, then if someone is out of the team, he is not able to review messages
<Geochr> always hiw messages will be as suggetions
<Geochr> his*
<GunChleoc> This is actually the really big problem we had with him, that he kept marking bad translations as reviewed
<hannie> Geochr, not when the team is open
<czajkowski> GunChleoc: so I used to see a lot of that in a similar manner on launchpad answers
<Geochr> hannie, you are right
<akerbeltz> it was open. then I contacted the owner and he restricted the project. fine. the rogue then came back and argued. the owner then said he could not judge and set it to open. There are a LOT of projects across Launchpad. If we have to argue with *each* that will cost us SO much time we might as well not bother
<Geochr> thiw is the first i have write
<czajkowski> the best bet there is to email them and say there are issues here and expain why it's not working, if it continues then perhaps look at having them not in the team especially if it leads to more work down the line
<GunChleoc> And it also puts the project leaders into an impossible situation
<dholbach> the general approach I've witnessed across teams has almost always been to reach out to the person, sometimes through somebody in their loco team or city group or somehow near them or by the phone or skype (this has worked well in many cases) to get them to live up to the team's standards
<czajkowski> dholbach: +1
<GunChleoc> The problem is that our language is too smal to have another person mediate
<hannie> dholbach, I agree that the loco team could act as a judge
<GunChleoc> There are 3 of us only for the entire language across all open source projects under the sun. akerbeltz, me and the rogue
<Geochr> +1 hannie
<GunChleoc> So, who's the loco team that could mediate?
<hannie> Is there a Scottish loco team?
<akerbeltz_> dholbach, that again only works for big languages. GunChleoc and me are the only localizers (on the whole) working for Scottish Gaelic. There is no loco team or city group.
<czajkowski> hannie: no it falls under UK as it's not language specific
<dholbach> akerbeltz: does somebody live near to the guy who did the translations?
<akerbeltz_> all we have is his handle, no idea who he is or where he lives
<dholbach> ah, I thought you were in touch with him somehow
<akerbeltz> email
<dholbach> so in a couple of cases I offered to have a chat on skype or somewhere else, maybe that'd work, but it seems he left the team already
<GunChleoc> Yes, e-mail only. akerbeltz is the one who did the direct communication with him
<dholbach> so that'd probably be a suggestion for the next time you run into a similar issue
<akerbeltz> do you know how many junk translations he submitted until he got annoyed enough to leave? and what if the next guy won't leave?
<akerbeltz> we will be proofreading after someone else's priorities forever rather than work out priorities for the locale and getting it right the first time
<GunChleoc> Maybe there should be an established process to handle such cases
<akerbeltz> or a global Launchpad team for each locale
<GunChleoc> We will still have to chase him on Transifex as well - not looking forward to that
<GunChleoc> A global team is a good idea
<akerbeltz> (sorry my internet keeps dropping out, rainy day in Glasgow)
<GunChleoc> We could have a global team for access rights, and then people could still join individual teams for the projetcs they wish to translate
<czajkowski> akerbeltz: have you brought up any of these suggestions onto the launchpad translations mailing list ?
<dholbach> akerbeltz, I can't guarantee you that having a chat on the phone or skype will resolve all problems every single time
<dholbach> akerbeltz, it's just my experience that some personal contact often helped, and that mistakes or misunderstandings could be cleared up quicker
<akerbeltz> yes, silence from any known admins, other team leaders suggesting team with restricted settings but that clearly doesn't work globally, I also posted a question
<dholbach> but I'm not going to try to convince you - it was a suggestion
<akerbeltz> it wasn't personal, honestly, I can forward you the emails. it was purely based on 15 years of experience in the translation industry
<GunChleoc> The problem is that our rogue is actiny deply offended, and people in that state won't listen. So, it would have to come from a "neutral" party
<czajkowski> akerbeltz: it can be tricky to have a industry background when working in a community setting, the two often need to work harder togeteher to get done as people have different opinions and ideas.
 * hannie has to leave in a minute. Success in solving this problem
<GunChleoc> thanks Hannie
<dholbach> hannie, any other items you wanted to bring up in the meeting?
<czajkowski> https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-translators
<hannie> No, just the language packs updates
<czajkowski> I think it might be good to bring up some of the ideas on this list
<hannie> See you all
<dholbach> hannie, perfect, thanks a bunch
<akerbeltz> czaj, I agree, Launchapd is not the only project I'm working with. But there is a fundamental level of language skill you need before you can translate *anyt*thing even vaguely useful and some folk just don't have that
<akerbeltz> see you hannie
<akerbeltz> it was, honest to [insert preferred invocation] at the "all you base are belong to us" level
<czajkowski> akerbeltz: I understand, but at the same time we in the ubuntu community do try and find ways for people to contribute in non code like ways so for some translations is key. we all just need to work together and it can be a bit harder with a language barrier.
<dholbach> akerbeltz, right - we've seen the same in support forums, in Ubuntu development, in QA and many other parts of the community... you often have people who are very excited, sometimes very young, sometimes you have a language barrier or a different temper or whatever it may be - it can be difficult
<akerbeltz> yes, I offered that too. In fact, I didn't even ask him to quit - all I asked for initially was to pause so we could catch up proofreading. No luck. I offered he could help in face to face workshops, no interest.
<dholbach> akerbeltz, so GunChleoc suggested a neutral party, you suggested a global team - did you bring up those ideas on the translators list?
<akerbeltz> yes, ringing silence
<akerbeltz> except from fellow team leaders who suggested things along the lines of restricting permissions
<dholbach> I'm not an expert when it comes to Launchpad's translations permissions, so I'm afraid I can't comment on that.
<dholbach> Maybe it'd be worth reaching out to teams who had similar issues again and see if you can get them to reply to the mail.
<akerbeltz> and how would I find them? and what would I propose?
<dholbach> I thought somebody said earlier that other teams had had the same issues in the translations space
<dholbach> in any case I'd probably try again to revive the mailing list thread
<akerbeltz> yes, all from biiig languages who have enough people to set up teams for everything
<akerbeltz> surely the quality of localization must be important to the project? sure, the code makes it tick but the point of contact with the user is the UI - if that brings up gibberish, the user won't care how wonderful the code is.
<pleia2> I don't think anyone said it wasn't important, it's just a tricky problem to solve
<dholbach> trust me, I do understand the importance of translations - unfortunately I just can't comment on Launchpad permissions or on the proposal as I'm not very much involved in the translations space
<pleia2> akerbeltz: can you forward your email to the translations list to community-council@lists.ubuntu.com and we can follow up to see if we can find some launchpad folks with some more ideas?
<dholbach> pleia2, yes - good idea
<akerbeltz> ok
<dholbach> thanks
<GunChleoc> We might have to changee the permission system for a global solution
<dholbach> do we have any other issues anyone wanted to bring up from the translations community?
<akerbeltz> I will draft something with GunChleoc
<dholbach> we still have the membership board up in the queue - anyone from the board in here?
<pleia2> chilicuil: you here?
<GunChleoc> Launchpad translators decides who can found a global language team, then the global language team can vet new translators, who then can join projects.
<Geochr> dholbach, what is going with ubuntu translation stats?
<dholbach> Geochr, hannie would probably have been a good person to ask
<dholbach> I'm afraid I don't know - if there are issues with it, it might also be worth raising it on the team mailing list
<pleia2> IdleOne? Pendulum_? cjohnston? hggdh?
<PabloRubianes> pleia2: now is time to the membership board?
<pleia2> should update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards/SittingMembers some expired
<pleia2> PabloRubianes: yes
<PabloRubianes> I am here
<PabloRubianes> :)
<pleia2> #topic Membership Board Check-in
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Membership Board Check-in
<dholbach> I'd like to thank all the translators for the great work they've been doing. Keep up the good work!
<akerbeltz> ok, thanks folks, see youse
<pleia2> PabloRubianes: happy birthday :)
<pleia2> and welcome!
<Geochr> Also i awant to say for a bug that affects all the translations problems
<IdleOne> half here
<PabloRubianes> pleia2: thanks!
<chilicuil> hi there
<pleia2> Geochr: if any changes are made, we'll be sure to coordinate that properly with the translations community
<Geochr> I have reported but it has been marked as low priority
<chilicuil> congrats PabloRubianes, today is my birthday too =D
<dholbach> congratulations chilicuil!
<pleia2> chilicuil: neat, happy birthday to you too!
<pleia2> mine is 10 days away :)
<PabloRubianes> chilicuil: hehehe so happy birthday too :D
<Geochr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/975970
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 975970 in Launchpad itself "Messages reviewed in translator mode if you don't check manually "Someone should review this translation"" [Low,Triaged]
<chilicuil> PabloRubianes, pleia2 =P
<pleia2> Geochr: good to know, thanks
<pleia2> we're approaching an hour for this meeting, so we should move on to the membership board
<chilicuil> dholbach: n_n
<czajkowski> Geochr: re the LP bug, LP is in maintenance mode and bugs taged low really may not get done without community involvment as LP is down to two people.
<pleia2> anyone from the membership board have comments about how things are going? any issues? happy stories? things we can help with?
<czajkowski> pleia2: happy Birthday!
<czajkowski> PabloRubianes: Happy Birthday
<PabloRubianes> czajkowski: thanks!!!
<PabloRubianes> pleia2: I think we are doing fine, we have a regular amount of applicants
<Geochr> czajkowski, what do you suggest ?
<czajkowski> Geochr: we have to move to the other board as running low on time sorry
<czajkowski> PabloRubianes: do you guys have enough people on the board to make the meetings?
<PabloRubianes> czajkowski: we always get at least 4
<PabloRubianes> in the 22UTC
<Geochr> ok thanks, i hope to be that soon
<chilicuil> we had some issues with an asian team who tried to get the membership in bulk, language barriers, we started discussing ways to improve the situation however we've not decided anything yet
<PabloRubianes> the only problem we had lately was
<czajkowski> chilicuil: membership in bulk is new to me :)
<czajkowski> what happened?
<PabloRubianes> we got almost all the myanmar team
<PabloRubianes> applying as 1
<pleia2> they had identical pages because they all contributed to the same events
<pleia2> so it was really hard to tell who did what
<czajkowski> ah I see
<PabloRubianes> pleia2: the problem was not just the events
<chilicuil> we had 10~ applicants from the same loco team, many of them had very similar input in its wiki pages, it seems it was because of a language barrier that they couldn't personalize his pages, and communication wasn't great in the meeting neither
<PabloRubianes> events, testimonials
 * pleia2 nods
<PabloRubianes> and the language barrier got them angry
<PabloRubianes> on top of all the time zone was a mess too
<PabloRubianes> for them was like 5am
<IdleOne> It was frustrating for all involved
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> in siutations like that would doing it via email be of use
<czajkowski> timezones are tricky
<PabloRubianes> czajkowski: they had the other board
<PabloRubianes> but I email them before the meeting about that
<czajkowski> nods ok
<IdleOne> That is what happened. We gave them some instructions on improving their personal wiki pages and took the vote to email.
<PabloRubianes> but after the got angry i got "Ohh I wait until 5am and I don't get elected?"
<pleia2> sounds like one of those unusual situations that won't really come up often and you handed it well
<PabloRubianes> thay*
<PabloRubianes> they*
<IdleOne> it still turned out that most were not approved and some got upset...
<czajkowski> pleia2: indeed
<IdleOne> pleia2: yes, it isn't something I think will happened too often. Was certainly a test for both the board and the applicants
<PabloRubianes> I think they still didnot understand what happend
<PabloRubianes> IdleOne: +1
<IdleOne> All in all I think the Membership board (12-22UTC) are doing good. I think we may need to step up on our team reports. I am guilty of not doing them myself :/
<czajkowski> anything the CC can help with folks?
<pleia2> I think the most important thing is getting the announcement emails out, more than team reports
<pleia2> so if you want to focus on something, I'd suggest there :)
<IdleOne> Nothing I can think of, the meeting seem to run smooth. I think our main thing is the paper work after. I think the we have been good about the emails being done. PabloRubianes chilicuil ?
<chilicuil> the wiki page could take some love too, when people go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership they should feel inspired
<pleia2> haven't seen an announcement for the last meeting yet
<PabloRubianes> I agree with IdleOne
<chilicuil> everything else seems ok to me
<czajkowski> excellent
<dholbach> good work!
<IdleOne> pleia2: I'll remind the 1200 folks about it.
<pleia2> thanks :)
<czajkowski> Thank you for all your hard work!
<pleia2> and thanks for joining us here at the meeting
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day everyone!
<dholbach> chilicuil, PabloRubianes: enjoy your birthdays! :)
<IdleOne> thank you.
<PabloRubianes> dholbach: thanks
<PabloRubianes> One more thing
<PabloRubianes> to the CC
<PabloRubianes> I've just send you the LoCo Council applications
<dholbach> yep, saw the mail
<PabloRubianes> :)
<IdleOne> oh, +1 PabloRubianes for LoCo council
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
<dholbach> I'll have a look at it tomorrow
<dholbach> does anyone else have any other agenda items or things you wanted to bring up?
<pleia2> now that the LoCo Council call is wrapped up, we'll be sending out the Community Council restaffing call within the next day or so
<pleia2> (we expire in mid october)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
 * pleia2 gives meetingology some more internets
<dholbach> :-)
<pleia2> oh!
<pleia2> dholbach: how do we make a change to http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/governance ?
<pleia2> the first paragraph under CC confuses me a bit and doesn't seem accurate
<pleia2> "It is the Community Council that approves the creation of a new team or project, along with team leader appointments."
<pleia2> we don't strictly do that
<dholbach> pleia2, for now just file a bug, but I still have work item from UDS to find a few folks who would like to be co-editors of the page
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-website/+filebug
<pleia2> dholbach: this is on ubuntu.com
<pleia2> not community
<pleia2> maybe https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+filebug ?
<dholbach> oh sorry
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+filebug
<pleia2> ah ok
<pleia2> thanks, I'll do that
<pleia2> and sub the cc to the bug
<dholbach> cool
 * pleia2 peers at trello real quick
<pleia2> ah, we had a volunteer go through our planet config
<pleia2> still need to review his feedback
<pleia2> I'll dig up that mail and follow up soon
<pleia2> ok, I guess we'll wrap this up then :)
 * dholbach hugs pleia2
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<dholbach> thanks a  bunch!
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 19 18:17:53 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-19-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-19-17.00.html
<dholbach> all right... dinner time!
<dholbach> see you :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-15
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
<jjohansen> o/
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 15 18:20:11 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Otto Kekaelaeinen (otto) provided a debdiff for trusty for mariadb-5.5 (LP: #1363222)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1363222 in mariadb-5.5 (Ubuntu) "USN-2291-1: MySQL vulnerabilities also applies to MariaDB" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1363222
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on community
<jdstrand> I will be working on the apparmor landing as my first priority
<jdstrand> I also want to look at tightening lxc apparmor policy
<jdstrand> as well as updating UCT for tracking derivative branches (eg, ubuntu-rtm)
<jdstrand> I didn't get to patch piloting last week, so plan to this week
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing some django updates
<mdeslaur> and have a couple of embargoed issues to work on
<mdeslaur> and continuing to go down the CVE list
<mdeslaur> that's it, sbeattie, tag, you're it
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor again this week
<sbeattie> My first priority is the apparmor landing
 * jdstrand should have said 'apparmor kernel landing'-- the userspace bits are in
<sbeattie> right
<sbeattie> I'm also planning on digging into some bugs that weren't blockers for userspace landing
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for my week; tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm focusing on the apparmor kernel landing
<tyhicks> within ~30 minutes of this meeting ending, I'll be sending out a parser and man page fix, as well as a bunch of AF_UNIX regression tests
<tyhicks> then I'll start working on whatever bug jjohansen needs me to work on
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> well with some many people working on the apparmor kernel landing, I guess I can take the week off?
<mdeslaur> lol :)
<jjohansen> sigh, well okay I guess I am working on the apparmor kernel landing too
<jjohansen> I specifically am working on fixes the last few bugs that we know of
<mdeslaur> jjohansen: the plan is for everyone to hold hands in a circle around you and chant "go jj, go jj, go jj"
<jjohansen> thanks for the reminder, I'll remember to bring my noise canceling headphones
<jjohansen> if I get time I also have some patches I need to upstream
<jjohansen> I don't have anything elese sarnold, you are up
<mdeslaur> I think sarnold had to leave, who's next?
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson if he is here
<jdstrand> we can give him a few minutes
<chrisccoulson> hi, I'm kind of hovering around still
<chrisccoulson> so, last week, I got lots of tests written for the security status API in oxide (and found some bugs too)
<chrisccoulson> this week, I'll have a chromium update to get out. I also still need to publish the corresponding oxide update too
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I shall be mostly focusing on bug 1260016
<ubottu> bug 1260016 in oxide-qt (Ubuntu) "Add an API to allow defining custom URL scheme delegates" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260016
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/docker.io.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pyfribidi.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/transifex-client.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dracut.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/bip.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 15 18:43:27 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-15-18.20.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-16
<jamespage> o/
<gnuoy> o/
<smoser> o.
<zul> hi
<smoser> who is our lucky leader ?
<jamespage> arosales
<jamespage> hmm
<jamespage> moving on its gnuoy
<coreycb> o/
<gnuoy> it isn't
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<smoser> says arosales. and in his absense, gnouy
<gnuoy> I did it three weeks ago
<gaughen> 0/
<gaughen> o/
<gnuoy> I did it inplace of jamespage because he was sunning himself on holiday
<smb>     \o
<jamespage> indeed - so beisner is next up!
<beisner> o/
 * beisner gets links
<coreycb> heh
<smoser> gnuoy, well, if you dont update the page, then you lose.
<beisner> oh yah, what ^ he said
<smoser> remember, those who own the past own the future.
<hallyn> all right alex jones
<gaughen> gnuoy, unfortunately smoser  is right, happened to me too
<zul> hallyn: +1
<zul> happened to me twice
<smoser> oh looky there. reload shows the past changed.
<smoser> and now it is lutostag
<gaughen> I think since arosales has been the guy for two weeks in a row and hasn't been around
<jamespage> oh are we really arguing about who types #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<smoser> history can be a funnything
<coreycb> note to self, move name to end of list each week
<jamespage> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 16 16:09:16 2014 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<gaughen> we should put him on the list extra
<jamespage> whoops
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<beisner> ohp i was about to do that jamespage
<jamespage> none
<jamespage> #topic Utopic Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Utopic Development
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<jamespage> OK _ so...
<gaughen> next big date is final freeze, I tihnk
<gaughen> think
<jamespage> Final beta is next week
<gaughen> 10/16
<jamespage> so we need things to be awesome by then
<jamespage> zul and coreycb and I have been having openstack fun - lots of new deps (see ubuntu-release@l.u.c
<jamespage> )
<jamespage> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jamespage> lets gaze at the bugs like normal
<gaughen> hopefully bcache and percona* can be landed by then
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jamespage> looks at the bugs seems like we still need todo a trove upload
<jamespage> and we have some docker things to fix - I have docker1.2 in a PPA btw
<gaughen> jamespage, good to know
<jamespage> also myqsl-5.6 is bust on ARM64 now
<jamespage> has been for a bit - rbasak did you have a fix for that in your upload?
<rbasak> No, I'd been fixing on the 5.5->5.6 move.
<rbasak> focusing
<jamespage> we might want to fasttrack something infront of any potential transition (which I think is unlikely)
<jamespage> rbasak, might be worth talking about that now?
<jamespage> rbasak, hows that transition looking?
<rbasak> Oracle are suggesting ignoring the ABI break as the best possible option.
<rbasak> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-mysql-maint/2014-September/007040.html
<rbasak> So I think we might be able to get it in, but it is very late in the cycle now.
<rbasak> I want to see what infinity thinks about this now.
<jamespage> rbasak, I think that is a good call
<rbasak> I'm not sure I made a call? :)
<jamespage>  I want to see what infinity thinks about this now.
<jamespage> quote
<jamespage> rbasak,
<rbasak> Oh, OK :)
<rbasak> It feels very either-way to me right now.
<jamespage> #action rbasak to review mysql-5.6 transition plans with ABI breaks with infinity
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to review mysql-5.6 transition plans with ABI breaks with infinity
<rbasak> I don't think we can expect one or the other right now.
<jamespage> yeah - an action!
<jamespage> w00t!
<jamespage> ok - lets see - I'd prefer to get it right early next cycle rather then foobar it right now
<rbasak> That's my feeling, too. I can carry on with it - just in a PPA.
<jamespage> gaughen, we might want to hold off on percona entry until next cycle as well as we might not make the 5.6 baseline we wanted to
<jamespage> I have the two linked in my head at least
<jamespage> anyway
<rbasak> Any implications for jessie?
<jamespage> rbasak, depends on whether we really do need a transition or now
<jamespage> not
<jamespage> I won't rush it
<jamespage> #subtopic Blueprints
<jamespage> oh yikes - I've not reviewed mine for a bit
<jamespage> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<jamespage> omg
<jamespage> so
<jamespage> we probably all need to checkpoint our blueprints
<jamespage> final beta is next week - be brutal with features now
<jamespage> at least for distro targetted stuff
<jamespage> #action all to review blueprint work items before next weeks meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: all to review blueprint work items before next weeks meeting
<jamespage> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<jamespage> caribou is not here - so moving on
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<jamespage> psivaa_, ?
<jamespage> hello caribou - we just got past your section - wanna do catchup?
<caribou> jamespage: hmm got the wrong time again
<caribou> jamespage: yeah, nothing particular, all is good from my side
<jamespage> awesome
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> ph no
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Finally found the root of the vmalloc failures of Xen PV guest, so now Utopic can bring up a dom0 again... just to realize that now HVM guests blow up into our faces because latest seabios thought it reasonable to drop xen support in the 128k bios image. Luckily we can use the 256k image instead. So I am assembling an upload for that (and possible some additional minor tweaks). Then I think I can enjoy going back t
<smb> o libvirt and make sure a certain person did not again drop patches I still need. Also ... rbasak will there be any chance of getting my merge requests done for uvtool? :-P
<jamespage> sorry kernel team
<smb> jamespage, no worries :)
<rbasak> smb: sorry, I've slipped on uvtool as I'm (still!) getting features in for other pieces for Utopic.
<smb> apart from my venting i am done. are there questions
<jamespage> thanks for the update smb
<rbasak> (and uvtool has no Utopic blueprint goals)
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> anything?
<zul> paris but thats not for a while
<gaughen> Summit in Nov
<gaughen> and yes, the blueprints need work.
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jamespage> anyone else?
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> ..
<jamespage> .
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<jamespage> Tues 23rd at 1600 UTC
<jamespage> see you then
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 16 16:27:01 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-16-16.09.moin.txt
<gaughen> thank you jamespage !
<smoser> thank you mr james page
<rharper> thanks jamespage
<kickinz1> thanks
<jamespage> np
<jamespage> ttfn
<caribou> jamespage: thanks
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 16 17:00:44 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<henrix> o/
<rtg> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<apw_> o/
<smb> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Utopic kernel remains based on a v3.16.2 upstream stable kernel and
<ogasawara> is uploaded to the archive, ie. linux-3.16.0-15.21.  Please test and let
<ogasawara> us know your results.
<ogasawara> I'd also like to point out that our Utopic kernel freeze date is about 3
<ogasawara> weeks away on Thurs Oct 9.  Please don't wait until the last minute to
<ogasawara> submit patches needing to ship in the Utopic 14.10 release.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara>   Mon Sep 22 - Utopic Final Beta Freeze (~1 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 25 - Utopic Final Beta (~1 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct  9 - Utopic Kernel Freeze (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 16 - Utopic Final Freeze (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 23 - Utopic 14.10 Release (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<ppisati> o/
<ppisati> :(
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Sept. 16):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - verification & testing
<bjf>   * Precise - verification & testing
<bjf>   *  Trusty - verification & testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 29-Aug through 20-Sep
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          29-Aug   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 31-Aug - 06-Sep   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 07-Sep - 13-Sep   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 14-Sep - 20-Sep   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 16 17:06:11 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-16-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-17
<iulian> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 17 12:03:20 2014 UTC.  The chair is iulian. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<iulian> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for September 17, 2014.
<iulian> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<iulian> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<iulian> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<iulian> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<iulian> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<iulian> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers amounts to at least +1, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<iulian> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<iulian> #voters marcoceppi jared Pendulum Destine rickspencer3 iulian
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: rickspencer3
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum iulian jared marcoceppi rickspencer3
<iulian> It appears that vovd is not here.
<iulian> Should we wait a bit more or move on to the next applicant?
<rickspencer3> o/ all
<rickspencer3> here now
<marcoceppi> iulian: should we see if they join at the end?
<iulian> #subtopic tinoco
<jared> I think we should probably look at removing Valentino from the wiki page, they've missed many meetings now
<tinoco> o/
<iulian> tinoco: Hi, the stage is all yours.
<tinoco> Hello, my name is Rafael David Tinoco and I'm 32 (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tinoco & http://www.linkedin.com/in/rafaeltinoco/). I've been using Linux since I was 13 (started with Slackware and migrated to Debian and then Ubuntu). When I was 15, alternating between OLVWM and FVWM, I started reading all classical Unix books from Richard Stevens - Unix Networking Programming, Advanced Programming for Unix Environments, TCP/IP Illustrated 1/2 - and
<tinoco>  this made me to become passioned about Operating Systems and Computer Architecture. In the age of 16 I started to work on Internet providers infrastructure and I could have a good understanding about networking. I spent the next 4 years alternating between jobs in the ".com" era, studying physics and using the first video4linux versions to provide solutions on University of Sao Paulo Physics Lab (Holographic Interferometry).
<tinoco> When 20 I've started working for Sun Microsystems and became SPARC/CMT/Solaris Internals specialist but this did not me put away from Linux since I got the chance to dedicate good amount of time to HPC with Linux + OFED + Infiniband, having projected/installed/configured the TOP #69 machine in the Linpack TOP #500 rank in 2009. After leaving Sun I worked on a company called Locaweb (biggest cloud provider in Brazil) in the Linux engineering
<tinoco>  team and one of my biggest achievements there was to create one connector + netlink taskstats daemon to measure resources consumption for cloud customers on over 1000 servers simultaneously. After that I spent sometime working for Red Hat as consultant/architect for their recent (at that time) KVM products but I got lucky to be called by IBM to enter in the Mainframe world.
<tinoco> Next 3 years I spent learning System-z (s390, s390x) architecture, z/OS and z/VM concepts and, most important, Linux for System/z. I've implemented several Mainframes with Linux on huge Linux customers and I got so involved in the architecture (System/z) that IBM Linux on System z Lab, in Boeblingen, called me for a residency studying System-z NUMA effects on Linux scheduling decisions and to benchmark specific Mainframe milicode instructions
<tinoco>  observing the same NUMA effects (for instructions such as Hipersockets). Finally I got invited to work at Canonical as a Linux Engineer for the Sustaining Engineering Group - providing fixes to the community and customers in the Ubuntu Advantage program.
<tinoco> Passioned about open-source and since my whole background is based on servers, different architectures/infrastructures and internals, my special interest is to help Ubuntu community in specific areas: providing fixes to userland and kernel areas related to Networking, Storage, Infiniband, Scalability, High Availability, like I've been doing for the last 6 months (Pacemaker, Corosync, Kernel Namespaces & Containers).
<rickspencer3> hi tinoco
<tinoco> Hello
<rickspencer3> tinoco, so, that is a paste of your wiki page, I guess?
<tinoco> rickspencer3: this is an introduction i just created for the channel. the wiki is a bit different saying things I've been contributing for the last months
<iulian> tinoco: I can see that you aren't a member of any of the community teams. You've mentioned that you're dealing with kernel bugs and things related to it. Do you plan to join the bug squad or bug control teams in the near future?
<tinoco> iulian: totally
<iulian> I suppose it'd be a bit hard to do your job if you aren't in the bug control team.
<tinoco> iulian: well today bugs are brought to my attention through Ubuntu Advantaged and from other teams as well (like Ubuntu Kernel Team)
<iulian> tinoco: I'm very happy with the work you're doing but I would very much like to see more community involvement. Do you think you could work on that in the future?
<tinoco> iulian: Thats my intention.
<rickspencer3> tinoco, to build on what iulian asked,  you mentioned sponsoring in your wiki page, have you had any opportunities to help community members get fixes into Ubuntu?
<tinoco> iulian: and the one thing I would say I need to "improve": to better understand community needs and way-of-work
<tinoco> rickspencer3: yes. i've helped some other users to provide fixes for packages
<tinoco> explaining about patching/packaging and giving examples on SRU way-of-do
<Pendulum> tinoco: why do you want to be an Ubuntu Member?
<tinoco> Pendulum: I was always passioned about Ubuntu and the community but I never had the opportunity im having right now to better help the community (several private contracts/work before)
<tinoco> i would love to take the opportunity and starting to give back several things i used from community (and being using so far)
<iulian> Thanks tinoco for your answers.
<jared> Is there anyone here to cheer on tinoco that hasn't commented on the wiki application?
<iulian> Any more questions for tinoco?
<iulian> OK, let's vote then.
<iulian> #vote tinoco to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: tinoco to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<marcoceppi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from marcoceppi
<rickspencer3> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rickspencer3
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<Pendulum> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Pendulum
<jared> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jared
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: tinoco to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<iulian> tinoco: Congratulations and welcome aboard.
<tinoco> Thanks guys, really appreciate.. I'm Really happy with this!!!
<tinoco> Hope to do a good job :)
<iulian> tinoco: Keep up the good work and please do get more involved with the community. :-)
<tinoco> iulian: will sure do
<iulian> mbruzek: Hello. Could you please introduce yourself?
<iulian> #subtopic mbruzek
<mbruzek> Hello my name is Matthew Bruzek.  A long time Linux enthusiast who has been using Ubuntu for the past five years.  An active member of LInux User Group (http://k-lug.org) where I have given several technical presentations (and played disc golf with them last night!).  I am have created and presented a Linux Introduction class for the local Community Education department. Active with the local makerspace, where we use Ubunt
<mbruzek> u for our computer projects.
<mbruzek> You can find my wiki page at:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
<mbruzek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mbruzek
<jared> mbruzek: good to see you out and about sharing stuff, is most of your participation in the LUG Ubuntu related?
<mbruzek> jared No.  I have given presentations on several different topics.  Our LUG is full of people with different Linux distributions.
<mbruzek> The latest presentation was Ubuntu related, but the past 2 presentations were about other topics.
<jared> mbruzek: fair enough, curious as some LUGs get very protective around particular distributions so like hearing how others go
<mbruzek> My last presentation was about Juju.  There is a link to the Prezi that I created for the meeting.
<marcoceppi> mbruzek: do you have any plans to join a loco in your area?
<mbruzek> marcoceppi, Yes, I have contacted Tony Yassaro the MN LoCo leader.  There are no meetings in my home town, but I do plan to attend one at some point in the future.
<iulian> Thanks for your answers mbruzek.
<iulian> #vote mbruzek to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: mbruzek to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<marcoceppi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from marcoceppi
<rickspencer3> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rickspencer3
<jared> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jared
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<jared> mbruzek: good to see community engagement across multiple channels
<iulian> Destine?
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: mbruzek to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<mbruzek> jared, Thank you.  It would be my honor to be an Ubuntu Community member!
<iulian> mbruzek: Congrats!
<mbruzek> Thank you all!
<jared> Congratulations mbruzek & tinoco, well done. Keep up the good work
<iulian> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 17 12:36:47 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-17-12.03.moin.txt
<tinoco> Thanks jared! Thank you all!
<jose> thanks guys, and please don't forget to send an email with the details so we can include it in the next UWN!
<mbruzek> jose,  Send an email to whom?
<jared> jose: already mentioned ;) Thanks for adding your comments to the application, makes life simpler with good testimonials.
<jared> mbruzek: the board send an email to the news team to advise them of the new members :)
<jose> mbruzek: the News Team always likes to feature new members in the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, so we ask membership boards members to send us an email
<jose> jared: my pleasure to always support good community members :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-18
<barry> o/
<jodh> \o
<cjwatson> o/
<sil2100> \o
<caribou> o/
 * slangasek waves
<cjwatson> bah, you broke the chain
 * barry thinks maybe it should be more like ~o~
<mvo_> hi
<bdmurray> \o
<slangasek>  /o\
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 18 15:02:24 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<slangasek> infinity sil2100 doko stgraber caribou cjwatson bhuey bdmurray mvo robru slangasek barry jodh
<slangasek> no infinity here currently
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100> ACK
<sil2100> - Landing team work, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Coordinating the promotion of ubuntu and ubuntu-rtm channels
<sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
<sil2100>   * Preparing the switch to doing binary copies in synces
<sil2100>   * Adding flag giving the option not to append the ~rtm to the version for ubuntu-rtm
<sil2100>   * Fixing some publish job issues
<sil2100>   * First try on fixing the watch-ppa problem with sync silos
<sil2100>   * Tweaking CI Train to properly handle silo synces (sync:x) in both ways
<sil2100> - Repartitioning and updating my krillin
<sil2100> - Creating the base version of TouchChannels wiki page
<sil2100> - Discussions regarding new landing schemes, landing enhancements etc.
<sil2100> - Ubuntu Engineering Live!
<sil2100> - First look into the CI Train Dashboard code in preparation for some changes
<sil2100> - Quick fix for the spreadsheet to list image numbers for more than just mako
<sil2100> - Working on preparing another list of missing packages not synced to ubuntu-rtm
<sil2100> - More additions to the Issue Tracker, still under testing
<sil2100> (done)
<doko> - trusty test rebuilds (release, updates and security)
<doko> - utopic test rebuilds (main only). PLEASE FIX the ftbfs ...
<doko> - currently at Linaro Connect
<doko> - ibm java upload (finally)
<doko> (done)
<stgraber>  - Quite a bunch of internal meetings and working on internal projects and
<stgraber>    documentation, so still not much I can share, sorry.
<stgraber>  - Some LXC code reviews and related discussions.
<stgraber>  - Did some FFe reviews.
<stgraber>  - Some system-image config updates for RTM.
<stgraber>  - Uploaded ubiquity fixing that Windows UEFI bug I mentioned last week.
<stgraber>  - Some admin work for Linux Plumbers, we're getting close!
<stgraber> (DONE)
<caribou> * working toward sosreport 3.2 release
<caribou> * Degraded mode issue with grub when localized in french :
<caribou> - SRU for bug #1073108 in just one day. thanks to cjwatson
<ubottu> bug 1073108 in grub2 (Ubuntu Precise) "grub-pc fails to boot (system resets after GRUB prompt) on degraded RAID" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073108
<caribou> * New uptream makedumpfile release : 1.5.7 - Used the opportunity to release the new networked kdump functionality - My first official DM upload
<caribou> (done)
<cjwatson> Emergency PackageKit fix prompted by a linkage change in apt.
<cjwatson> click:
<cjwatson>  - Working on new D-Bus service to replace our use of PackageKit.  Took a while to get hold of the connected username but Martin Pitt eventually dug me out of my misunderstanding.
<cjwatson>  - I have the service running now; just need to write the client side.
<cjwatson>  - Minor fix to "click info" to cope with getting manifests from files that don't end with .click, which shouldn't be required for installation.
<cjwatson> Kept up with all sorts of miniature fires in ubuntu-rtm, image building, etc.
<cjwatson> Trying to work out how best to get add-apt-repository working on ubuntu-rtm, which requires a bit more than what's in software-properties/utopic now.  I have most of a possible approach but awaiting feedback from Michael when he has time.
<cjwatson> Reviewed/sponsored fixes for bug 1362752 and bug 1073108.
<ubottu> bug 1362752 in Kubuntu PPA "no SDDM autologin even if ubiquity box is set" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362752
<cjwatson> On the side, worked on a new man-db release.  Ordering file accesses by their first physical extent (idea from dpkg) makes mandb run about three times faster on rotational disks!
<cjwatson> ..
<mvo_> cjwatson: what linkage change what that? I don't think this was intended â¦ :/
<cjwatson> Oh, also, I'm off on Monday visiting family.
<cjwatson> mvo_: I don't think it was apt's fault which is why I didn't complain at you - just a side-effect of an otherwise innocent change.
<cjwatson> mvo_: https://github.com/hughsie/PackageKit/pull/11 has the details
<mvo_> heh, thanks
<bdmurray> slangasek: no bill?
<slangasek> seems not
<slangasek> bdmurray: you're up then
<bdmurray> pushed daisy change not to write ProcMaps for resume from suspend failures
<bdmurray> updated daisy to retry failed to retrace armhf crashes
<bdmurray> updated daisy not to retrace crashes with "[origin: " in Package
<bdmurray> investigation into retracer slowness (seems to be associated with apport r2854)
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1370230 regarding apport-retrace being slower
<ubottu> bug 1370230 in Apport "apport-retrace has become slower" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1370230
<bdmurray> working with thedac to test staging cassandra and cleanup excess data
<slangasek> bhuey: let us know if/when you're here
<bdmurray> attended cassandra summit 2014
<bdmurray> modified phased-updater to use changes file to find email addresses if they have hidden their address in launchpad
<bdmurray> documented a test case for bug 1353171
<ubottu> bug 1353171 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "Misparses dpkg status line, fails to write apport reports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1353171
<bdmurray> reported ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1370243
<ubottu> bug 1370243 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Utopic) "do-release-upgrade causing tracebacks with no_longer_supported string" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1370243
<bdmurray> overrode false regression regarding ubuntu-release-upgrader
<bhuey> slangasek: ok
<cjwatson> mvo_: (that kFreeBSD-related change meant that libapt-pkg no longer uses forkpty, which means that it no longer links against anything in -lutil, so the linker drops it)
<bdmurray> updated arsenal code to fix roaksoax issues also helped him write a report
<bdmurray> worked with manjo regarding flash-kernel SRU bug report
<bdmurray> review of xnox's improving whoopsie ID stability work
<bdmurray> tried to build whoopsie and resolve a dbus test failure
<bdmurray> wrote a greasemonkey script to help slangasek review employee candidates
<bdmurray> arranged travel to Devices Sprint in October
<cjwatson> mvo_: (I mean openpty)
<mvo_> cjwatson: yeah, once I saw your diff I figured it out
<bdmurray> â done
<mvo_> apt:
<mvo_> - Big security update (CVE-2014-0487, CVE-2014-0488, CVE-2014-0489,
<mvo_>   CVE-2014-0490)
<mvo_> - Hunt/fix regression from last security update (#1371058, bts #762079)
<mvo_> - Work on update improvements
<mvo_> - Debug/fix proxy-override bug #759264
<bhuey> This week
<bhuey> -TCK compiler test suite is running with only a few errors
<bhuey> -TCK devtools test suite runs without failures. About 21000 tests for both suites
<mvo_> click:
<ubottu> ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2014-0487)
<bhuey> -learn about the TCK configuration file and how to add environment variables and shell
<mvo_> - Work on acquire support (lp:~mvo/click/acquire)
<ubottu> ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2014-0488)
<mvo_>   using the apt methods, udm plugin and pycurl plugin
<bhuey> -read a few small documents about ubuntu/debian packaging
<mvo_> - Work on click hook for $PATH support for cli apps
<mvo_>   (lp:~mvo/click/click-bin-path)
<ubottu> ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2014-0489)
<mvo_> - Work on "repository" support for click, i.e. the click store for now
<mvo_>   to query and see updates (lp:~mvo/click/repository)
<ubottu> ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2014-0490)
<ubottu> bug 759264 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "soffice.bin crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759264
<mvo_> - Review lp:~cjwatson/click/system-hook-gc/+merge/234456
<mvo_> - Server image work/discussion
<mvo_> misc:
<mvo_> - help analyzing image size:
<mvo_>   lp:~mvo/+junk/naive-remover (not that naive anymore)
<mvo_> - look at pkgbinarymangler bug #1072297 without much success
<mvo_> (done)
<ubottu> bug 1072297 in pkgbinarymangler (Ubuntu) ""Installed-Size" field in most of Ubuntu packages from the main section is incorrect" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1072297
<cjwatson> TCK devtools> nice!  how horrible was it to get that far?
<bhuey> (done)
<robru> one sec
<bhuey> sorry for posting with bad timing
<robru> * CI Train
<robru>   - pep8 & pyflakes cleanup for cupstream2distro/ dir
<robru>   - eliminate some copypasta from prepare_silo.py
<robru>   - broke a logical unit out of main() into a new function with tests
<robru>   - found a reimplementatin of set.discard and deleted it in favor of using set.discard
<robru>   - increased the logging in the build job to try and troubleshoot the issue where it reports successful builds immediately without actually scanning the PPA. still no luck on a solution there though
<robru>   - total overhaul of prepare_silo_using_spreadsheet_info.py with tests
<robru>   - Fixed or deleted the remaining skipped tests -- no more skipped tests!
<robru>   - deleted a ton of unused code
<robru>   - transformed citrain/ dir into a real python module so eg. if one script needs to call another script, they can import and call each other in a tidy pythonic way, rather than shelling out to invoke each other.
<robru>   - (plus ten million landings)
<robru> (done)
<barry> robru: "found a reimplementatin of set.discard and deleted it" wow
<robru> barry: you have no idea
<mvo_> heh :)
<robru> barry: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/cupstream2distro/revision/734#cupstream2distro/packageinppamanager.py
<sil2100> robru: the watch-ppa thing is fixed now
<slangasek> * analysis of the phone images for low-hanging fruit to remove (thanks, mvo!); will be unseeding some fonts that are directly seeded and shouldn't be
<slangasek>  * started a biweekly landing team meeting to dig further into topics that don't fit in the daily stand-ups
<slangasek>  * TI partner package reviews: there are a lot of them again for another round, look for some of these reviews to be distributed
<slangasek>  * next Wednesday, out for a business meeting with a partner in Seattle
<slangasek>  * archive rebuild: working through the cross-toolchain packages, the packaging is an out-of-sync mess but I have the overall package building again and now just need to get everything back in sync
<slangasek> (done)
<barry> phone: LP: #1365646; LP: #1365761.  LP: #1370586 (discussion & triage).  tons of improvement in system-image test coverage (now at 100%, modulo bugs in coverage, and a sprinkle of pragmas).  upstream si 2.4 release.  s-i 2.4-0ubuntu1 in citrain.  removed b-d on tox and its dependencies, so fewer MIRs to deal with.  testing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1365646 in system-image (Ubuntu) "Top Crasher: /usr/sbin/system-image-dbus:RuntimeError:_download" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1365646
<robru> sil2100: do you have a branch? it's not in trunk yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1365761 in system-image (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/system-image-cli:PermissionError:/usr/bin/system-image-cli@9:main:last_update_date" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1365761
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1370586 in Ubuntu system image "Add synchronous method to determine if there are known updates" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1370586
<barry> debuntu: zope.schema 4.4.2-1.  colorama 0.3.2-1.  argvalidate (0.9.0-2 to kill off one more pysupport revdep).
<barry> other: submitted two talk proposals for pycon 2015
<barry> ..
<sil2100> robru: yeah it's not as the merger rejected merging it since I switched it to 'Approved' before it ran CI
<sil2100> robru: so the merger said "Unapproved changes made after approval."
<sil2100> My push wasn't registered on time
<jodh> * upstart
<jodh>   - trusty SRU prep for bug 1338637 and bug 901038 including detailed instructions
<jodh>     on bug 1338637, test case, expected results and work-around. Current plan to wait for the fix
<ubottu> bug 1338637 in upstart (Ubuntu Trusty) "continuous re-exec can result in a build-up of inotify fds [SRU]" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1338637
<ubottu> bug 901038 in upstart (Ubuntu) "packages fail to install: Failed to connect to socket /com/ubuntu/upstart: Connection refused" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901038
<jodh>     for 901038 to land in Utopic, wait a few days, then progress SRU.
<jodh>     Branch available at lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/trusty/upstart/SRU-bugs-901038+1338637.
<jodh>   - Pre-emptively created a draft test-plan for Touch for upstart-file-bridge changes:
<jodh>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/TestPlans/upstart-1.13.2
<jodh>   - upstart job reviews.
<jodh>   - bug 1360208: Work completed. This was a relatively big change and is now fully backed
<ubottu> bug 1360208 in upstart "file watcher doesn't execute if combining ~ and * in the file description" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1360208
<jodh>     by new tests. Awaiting review:
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1360208/+merge/234869
<jodh> * system image.
<jodh>   - Minor updates to lp:~ubuntu-foundations-team/+junk/create-ubuntu-core-image.
<sil2100> robru: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro/reintroduce_fixes/+merge/235105 <- I re-switched it again
<jodh>   - Working on making root r/o and creating a generic package to make specific parts of system writeable.
<jodh> à¨ à¨
<barry> robru: re that diff.  you are having too much "fun"
<slangasek> uhoh, jodh has taken up ingress glyph hacking
<slangasek> any questions over the above?
<robru> barry: well all this "fun" was just waiting for me to find it...
<robru> sil2100: ok we can try it today
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else for today?
<slangasek> (who wants to review resumes? :)
<barry> slangasek: i can look at a few
<cjwatson> o/
<cjwatson> (as previously mentioned)
<slangasek> cool... I'll start shooting them out to folks then :)
<sil2100> Resumes?
<robru> sil2100: hiring xnox's replacement
<slangasek> or "CV"s if you prefer
<slangasek> :)
<sil2100> ACK!
<robru> slangasek: I like to call them resumes because they indicate my desire to resume working.
<barry> :-D
<doko> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20140914-utopic.html
<slangasek> robru: isn't the making of such bad puns on words of French origin prohibited by Canadian law?
<doko> please fix these, or pester other teams ...
<robru> slangasek: shhh, the language police will hear you!
<slangasek> je suis le gendarme de langages, moi !
<stgraber> :)
<caribou> oh, yeah barry got a minute of fame on LWN : http://lwn.net/Articles/611932/
<slangasek> barry: lol, nice quote
 * barry masks the pain behind the funny
<slangasek> so yes, echoing doko's request above, let's get these build failures driven down... turning them into bugs (tagged 'ftbfs') is a good start towards making teams accountable for their failing packages :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 18 15:26:53 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-18-15.02.moin.txt
<barry> slangasek, doko what about false positives?  i tried webob yesterday and it built okay for me
<slangasek> enough meeting, more working!
<mvo_> yay, more working!
<slangasek> barry: you should be able to trigger a retry from the links on the page
<slangasek> barry: and if it still fails, then your reproducer environment is wrong?
<barry> slangasek: iirc we don't have access to the retry button on those pages, but i could be mistaken about that
<cjwatson> I do if you don't :)
<slangasek> right
<slangasek> /I/ do, and I'm not buildd-special
<cjwatson> have retried python-webob
<stgraber> slangasek: you are buildd-special
<cjwatson> slangasek: you sure are due to techboard
<slangasek> let me rephrase :)
<doko> barry, I'll give it back, but a ftbfs isn't a false positive by default
<slangasek> I had that button before I was TB
<cjwatson> slangasek: only for things you would be able to upload
<cjwatson> slangasek: which doesn't include a copy archive owned by doko
<slangasek> aha
<slangasek> well then :)
<barry> doko: right.  just meaning i built it okay locally, but anyway i'll just bug folks if i need a retry and don't have the button
 * barry watches that build now
<dholbach> hello hello
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 18 17:00:43 2014 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<dholbach> @chairs pleia2 elfy YokoZar
<meetingology> dholbach: Error: "chairs" is not a valid command.
<dholbach> #chairs pleia2 elfy YokoZar
<dholbach> hum
<elfy> mmmmmmm
<dholbach> #chair pleia2 elfy YokoZar
<elfy> how long for dholbach ?
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar dholbach elfy pleia2
<dholbach> aha!
<dholbach> #topic Catching up with the IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the IRC Council
<dholbach> do we have anyone here from the IRC Council? :)
<pleia2> o/
<YokoZar> Hello then
<pleia2> Tm_T, Pici, hggdh, AlanBell - any of you around?
<dholbach> pleia2, you were quicker - I was just looking at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-council/+members :)
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> anyone else here from the IRC team with any thoughts, comments, concerns about the IRC team?
<YokoZar> hmmm
<dholbach> I just pinged folks in #ubuntu-irc
<dholbach> maybe in the meantime I can bring up something different real quick
<dholbach> I started the review of https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/config/planet-ubuntu/+merge/232014
<dholbach> it'd be great if anyone else could help with this as well
<dholbach> just so we don't accidentally drop folks form the planet configuration
<elfy> I saw that
<elfy> managed a quick look - I'll be able to spend a bit of time on it tomorrow
<dholbach> thanks a lot
<dholbach> I'll make sure I review the rest of it as well
<dholbach> it took me a while to understand that a lot of the entries were just being rearranged and not dropped entirely :)
<elfy> that was where I'd come unstuck - so you saying that will help :)
<YokoZar> I'll take a look today too
<dholbach> brilliant, thanks
<dholbach> ok... looks like nobody from the IRC team is around right now
<dholbach> shall we reschedule?
<YokoZar> I think so
<elfy> sounds good to me
<YokoZar> #topic Tardiness
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Tardiness
<hggdh> pleia2: here
<elfy> that - or drop them a line and see what's up
<dholbach> ah, hello hggdh!
<elfy> hi hggdh :)
<hggdh> dholbach: hi, long time :-)
<YokoZar> #topic IRC Council catchup
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: IRC Council catchup
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<dholbach> how's life?
<hggdh> elfy: cheers
<hggdh> life is good, but rather busy :-). Been to Germany, but just the Bavaria
<dholbach> ah nice - I'm going to be in Bavaria quite soon myself :)
<dholbach> how are things in IRC land?
<hggdh> seems stable. We -- the IRCC -- have been quite busy in our lives-outside-IRC. I have not seen any issues lately
<hggdh> except for SamwiseGamgee fallouts
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I've kind of seen that in -irc logs
<hggdh> do you need a summary of this case, or was my email was enough?
<elfy> and he's tried the same game in the forum channel
<dholbach> but all in all you feel like you coped quite well with the day to day business of ubuntu irc?
<elfy> hggdh: that mail was fine for me
<elfy> #chair mhall119
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar dholbach elfy mhall119 pleia2
<YokoZar> Was fine too :)
<hggdh> I think we still need a bit more of attention to IRC. Although things seem to have been getting better, we can still go some more
<hggdh> as usual, there is always tension...
<dholbach> in which areas would you recommend to pay more attention to?
<hggdh> but, all in all, IRC -- to my perhaps biased view -- is better now than it was a few ago
<mhall119> I certainly haven't noticed any issues in the channels I'm in
<hggdh> my personal view, not necessarily reflecting the IRCC as a whole, is that we need more rotation, more new blood coming in
<hggdh> this does not mean the current ops would retire, though; it is more, not less or the same
<elfy> hggdh: that's a *buntu wide thing - everyone has said more or less the same :)
<dholbach> new blood in the ops team? or the council? or the wider irc community?
<hggdh> new blood in ops; filling in the vacant seat in IRCC might also be good. The wider IRC community depends, heh, on the community ;-)
<YokoZar> Ahh, reasonable
<YokoZar> I have no idea how to recruit said blood
<hggdh> I am happy with the ops we have, I just feel like giving others a chance to work for the community is warranted
<hggdh> I do not know either, at least not right now; creating an effective and catalystic, ops is not simple
<hggdh> but this is it, as far as I can see, for IRC
<dholbach> maybe we should have an Ubuntu "job fair" :)
<elfy> hggdh: so has the IRCC thought about calling for someone to fill the vacant spot?
<hggdh> doesnot sound a bad idea at all
<elfy> dholbach: ha ha ha
<mhall119> dholbach: that really is a good idea
<hggdh> elfy: I personally have been thinking about it
<dholbach> or at least an event where teams can explain what kind of folks they are looking for
<hggdh> have not yet checked with the rest of the council
<elfy> hggdh: ok - thanks - saved me asking :)
<dholbach> mhall119, maybe we should bring it up on the ubuntu-community-team@ list :)
<hggdh> dholbach: yes, and then we can expand it there
<dholbach> rock and roll
<elfy> hggdh: do you want to broach the subject with them - then see what happens then, if needed we could do so - but probably best if you all did
<dholbach> I'll send the mail out in a bit
<elfy> dholbach: good plan :)
<hggdh> elfy: ack, will do
<elfy> hggdh: okey doke - let us know if you need anything then
<hggdh> will do. Thank you for this opportunity, and sorry for being late (got my grandson here today, and he is all hands on deck...)
<dholbach> don't worry :)
<elfy> indeed not :)
<dholbach> it's good to hear that things are ticking along nicely
<elfy> hggdh: on deck or on kbd?
<hggdh> heh
<hggdh> I hope I can keep him from being a kbd strip...
<elfy> not got that far here- I might be old enough, but no elflets yet :)
<YokoZar> :)
<elfy> hggdh: lol
<dholbach> hggdh, did you approve any "irc members" recently?
<hggdh> dholbach: no, I have not, at least do not remember. I think Pici did
<hggdh> oh
<elfy> hggdh: quick question
<hggdh> you mean Ubuntu members via IRC -- no, none
<dholbach> yep
<dholbach> ok
<elfy> there are some proposed people sitting on https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntu-ops
<hggdh> will look at them
<elfy> what's going on with those?
<hggdh> elfy: cannot say (which is a shorthand for "it seems I messed up somewhere")
<elfy> :)
<YokoZar> Ahhh
<hggdh> will look at them; we just missed the IRC monthly (it would have been yesterday, I was for it, and got diverted by a work crisis)
<elfy> hggdh: thanks
<hggdh> so, we will figure something out
<dholbach> is there anything else you feel the CC could help with? or things you feel should be looked at?
<hggdh> only the empty seat, right now; we had considered, initially, that we would be able to cope but life got in the way; pretty much all are busy, so we (er, *I*) need to have this seat filled
<hggdh> ..
<mhall119> hggdh: will the current IRCC members nominate somebody to fill the seat?
<elfy> hggdh: so we'll leave that with you for the moment?
<mhall119> or should we have an open call for nominations?
<dholbach> ok... how do we move on from here? do we just call for nominees (who sends out the call?) and follow http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing?
<hggdh> mhall119: I feel we should not
<hggdh> I would rather go on a request for candidates; I do not want any impression of we gaming the system
<elfy> hggdh: ok - so you want to do the call and then forward them to us?
<hggdh> elfy: I can. Which MLs should I target?
<elfy> mmm
<DalekSec> hggdh: Did you want to discuss with other IRC council members first?
<mhall119> there doesn't seem to be an irc-members ML
<hggdh> DalekSec: I would rather and, in fact, *will*. But I still can take on the attribution to send out the announcement
<mhall119> there is an ubuntu-irc @lists.ubuntu.com is that used?
<hggdh> mhall119: ubuntu=irc@ubuntu.com
<dholbach> brilliant
<hggdh> lists.ubuntu.com, even
<elfy> hggdh: you could mail the fridge too
<pleia2> I'll make sure it gets posted to fridge
<hggdh> ack. ubuntu-irc and fridge (with copies to CC and IRCC)
 * elfy thought pleia2 would say that :p
<pleia2> ubuntu-news-team is fridge :)
<hggdh> pleia2: heh. I was not really going to pin in on my fridge ;-)
<elfy> oh
<pleia2> hehe
<elfy> is that *not* how you do it :(
<pleia2> hggdh's pet for IRCC
<hggdh> :-D
<dholbach> any more questions for hggdh and the IRC Council?
<hggdh> so. I will start with an internal poll; I will either update the CC with the results of the poll (meaning the IRCC does not agree with me), or send out a RFC to ubuntu-irc, ubuntu-news-team, copies to CC and IRCC
<mhall119> none from me
<mhall119> thanks hggdh
<hggdh> you are all welcome. I am sorry for the lateness
<elfy> hggdh: you're welcome and excused :)
<elfy> thanks for your time
<hggdh> thank you all for yours :-)
<YokoZar> Thank you everyone
<dholbach> thanks a lot!
<dholbach> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<pleia2> nothing from me
<dholbach> same here, planet config was the only bit I had
<dholbach> anyone else?
<YokoZar> nope
<elfy> not from me
<dholbach> all right... in that case...
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 18 17:46:34 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-18-17.00.moin.txt
<dholbach> thanks everyone!
<elfy> thanks dholbach
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day! :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-20
<xnox> slangasek: i'd review some ;-)
<slangasek> xnox: :P
 * slangasek forwards on to xnox a stack of resumes citing Unix, Clearcase, and NT experience, with no mention of git, bzr, or Linux :P
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-21
<xnox> slangasek: i have no idea what Clearcase is =) I'm guessing it's for the best ;-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-14
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<chrisccoulson> o/
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 14 16:41:47 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Thanks to Stefan Bader (smb) for his help on security updates for xen last week. Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> so I've got a number of snappy things on my plate. namely, some doc writing and helping tyhicks prepare for a sprint next week
<jdstrand> there are two snappy investigations I need to finish up with emails to the architects
<jdstrand> then there is the golang/juju MIRs. for the moment, I've provided everything they need to do in terms of packaging, but I imagine there are going to be numerous followups
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I have patch piloting to do tomorrow
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing some unity-settings-daemon and icu updates
<mdeslaur> and am working on openldap updates
<mdeslaur> and will pick up some more after
<mdeslaur> that's about it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on security bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I'm also continuing to come up to speed on the kernel sign-off/triage process
<sbeattie> I'm doing more test builds with gcc-pie, and am looking to do some benchmarking this week
<sbeattie> I also have some apparmor patches to review.
<sbeattie> That's it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm on CVE triage this week
<tyhicks> I'm preparing for the snappy sprint
<tyhicks> that includes some design work, preparing presentations, and some reviews of existing designs
<tyhicks> I'll be poking at SRU'ing the fixes for bug #1478087
<ubottu> bug 1478087 in lightdm (Ubuntu Wily) "ISST-LTE: aureport -l couldn't print out login info on ubuntu 14.04.3" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1478087
<tyhicks> and there's an embargoed issue that deserves some attention, too
<tyhicks> I think that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: are you around?
<tyhicks> lets come back to him
<tyhicks> sarnold: go ahead
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week; I'm working on the juju-core MIR, I'll move to the fwupdate MIR once finished, and if there's still time left in the week, start the lxd MIR. I'll also help along with an embargoed issue if needed.
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> This week I'll be preparing the next Firefox release
<chrisccoulson> I also need to spend some time getting trunk building, again
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through some bugs on https://launchpad.net/oxide/+milestone/branch-1.11
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<tyhicks> ok
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lasso.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/oftc-hybrid.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libjbcrypt-java.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/kdepim.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libinfinity.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 14 16:59:42 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-14-16.41.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks! :)
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
 * infinity looks around.
<cyphermox> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<cyphermox> Unit193: around?
<Unit193> cyphermox: Nope.
<cyphermox> awesome.
<Unit193> Hrm, think that might have been the wrong answer.
<cyphermox> pishuilu1128: ShuiLu Pi: you there?
<cyphermox> Unit193: can't make the meeting?
<Unit193> cyphermox: I'm here, was just thinking about making coffee but figured would miss something.
 * xnox o/
<cyphermox> Unit193: not missing anything yet :)
 * genii makes the next batch of coffee
<cyphermox> we're four, that should make quorum.
<cyphermox> I'd be next to chair after Laney, I guess I can do it now
<cyphermox> bdmurray: infinity: xnox: all good to have the meeting?
<infinity> cyphermox: I'm pumped.
<cyphermox> awesome.
<infinity> Super excited.
<infinity> Can't wait.
<infinity> Meeting me harder.
<cyphermox> me too, you have no idea.
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Ubuntu DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 14 19:17:57 2015 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<xnox> infinity: 102 sleeps till christmas!
<cyphermox> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<infinity> xnox: Or 8 sleeps, for me.
<xnox> >_<
<xnox> =))))
<cyphermox> woops.
<cyphermox> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<cyphermox> ugh
<cyphermox> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<cyphermox> #voters infinity cyphermox xnox bdmurray
<meetingology> Current voters: bdmurray cyphermox infinity xnox
<xnox> wow, i never used votesrequired command =)
<cyphermox> #topic Unit193's application for Xubuntu package set
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic: Unit193's application for Xubuntu package set
<xnox> always stopped the vote manually.
<cyphermox> xnox: automated tallying.
 * xnox says cyphermox is so advanced
<cyphermox> Unit193: please introduce yourself, and we'll ask you questions
<Unit193> Howdy.  I'm "Unit 193", Xubuntu developer and contributor to Debian and Ubuntu.
<Unit193> I'm kind of part of the Ohio LoCo, but it's a bit inactive.
<cyphermox> Unit193: do you have examples of work you're particularly proud of?
<Unit193> cyphermox: There were a couple I linked, the parole bug that was an Ubuntu only issue that wouldn't allow the user to load plugins comes to mind, that one lasted a few cycles.  There's nothing that really comes to mind that I'd be specifically "proud" of.
<cyphermox> quite nice
<cyphermox> Anybody else have questions?
<infinity> I don't really, I think the application speaks for itself.
<bdmurray> I don't have any questions.
<Unit193> I've been able to get a few packages I have locally into Debian too! \o/
<cyphermox> alrighty then
<cyphermox> xnox: you ready to vote?
<infinity> My only question is if we have a formal "real names" policy (I don't think we do?), cause Unit193 might have some issues there. :P
<xnox> infinity: we do not have such a policy, nor do we demand people to be in a web of trust.
<Unit193> infinity: Yeah, specifically for DM, that'll be harder to get GPG sigs..
<infinity> Unit193: GPG cross-signing isn't impossible in such cases, but it means being signed by people who actually know you, and can connect the pseudonym to the person.
<infinity> Unit193: FWIW, those are the sorts of sigs I prefer anyway (human trust, rather than government trust), but harder to come by when you're trying to break into a community.
<xnox> Unit193: DM -> as in Debian Maintainer?! This is Ubuntu Developer Membership Board and cannot advice about Debian. Contact Debian Front Desk about it.
<infinity> xnox: :P
<cyphermox> #vote Unit193 to be have be added to the Xubuntu package set uploaders
<meetingology> Please vote on: Unit193 to be have be added to the Xubuntu package set uploaders
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<infinity> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from infinity
 * cyphermox sucks at typing
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<xnox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xnox
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Unit193 to be have be added to the Xubuntu package set uploaders
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Unit193> Wow, thanks guys!
<bdmurray> Congatulations
<cyphermox> Congrats
<cyphermox> so, moving on to pending actions. sorry for doing things out of order
<cyphermox> #topic Review of pending action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of pending action items
 * xnox probably was supposed to send notes
<cyphermox> bdmurray: can we cross off your pad task?
 * xnox probably was supposed to send info for prospecting core developers
<bdmurray> cyphermox: yeah, I started a bzr branch for the same thing
<cyphermox> xnox: that wasn't even on the wiki, we should add it
<cyphermox> bdmurray: ok
 * xnox probably should not have failed at adding tasks to the wiki from the meeting i chaired
<cyphermox> anything else?
<cyphermox> #topic Next chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic: Next chair
<infinity> I assume we skipped Laney?
<cyphermox> I think we were discussing that it was up to Laney?
<cyphermox> maybe, yes
<infinity> So, Laney, then Micah.
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<cyphermox> anything anyone wants to add?
<infinity> On the AOB front, it might be nice to delete the Fridge meeting and recreate one that actually has useful info and attendees.
<infinity> Copying to calendars manually is so 1993.
 * cyphermox shrugs
<cyphermox> first time chairing a DMB meeting, and just looking at the wiki pages to try and guess what needs to be done
<cyphermox> does the meeting need any special access I don't have to be modified, etc?
<infinity> I don't think any of us can edit it.
<cyphermox> yeah, that's what I thought
<cyphermox> #action Update Fridge meeting info
<meetingology> ACTION: Update Fridge meeting info
<cyphermox> #action Laney to chair next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: Laney to chair next meeting
<cyphermox> is this all?
<infinity> And someone should add unit193 to the xubuntu packageset acl.
<infinity> I can do that.
<cyphermox> alright
<cyphermox> #action infinity to add unit193 to xubuntu packageset ACL
<meetingology> ACTION: infinity to add unit193 to xubuntu packageset ACL
<cyphermox> xnox: bdmurray: good to end the meeting?
<xnox> si
<bdmurray> aye
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 14 19:41:28 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-14-19.17.moin.txt
<infinity> cyphermox: Ta.
<Unit193> cyphermox: Thanks.
<cyphermox> Unit193: thank you for your great work! keep it up :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-15
<zul> hi
<zul> server team meeting?
<kickinz1> o/
<caribou> \o
<smoser> o/
<smoser> zul, it looks like you're the lucky scribe today.
<rharper> o/
<zul> yeah gimme a sec
<jgrimm> o/
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 15 16:02:23 2015 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<zul> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smb> o/
<zul> rharper: numad
<arges> i uploaded it
<zul> ok cool
<zul> #topic Wily Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Wily Development
<zul> smoser do you want to take this?
<matsubara> o/
<smoser> sure
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> its september for those of you who haven't noticed.
<smoser> and the 17th is DocumentationStringFreeze. and the 24th is 'Final Beta Freeze'
<smoser> so... please be aware of that.
<zul> anything else?
<smoser> so if you have wily items on your plate, please consider them quite important.
<smoser> that is all
<zul> any questons?
<zul> ...
<zul> #topic Assigned bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Assigned bugwork (rbasak)
<zul> hi rbasak
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> rharper, kickinz1, jgrimm: how are your existing assigned bugs progressing, please? Are you blocked on anything apart from time?
<rbasak> smoser: thanks for clearing bug 1481337. Are you OK to take more assignments?
<ubottu> bug 1481337 in keepalived (Ubuntu Vivid) "keepalived makes a floating IP available on more than one host after configuration reload" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1481337
<rbasak> hallyn, stgraber and caribou: I've been asked to add you to my list if that's OK with you?
<rharper> rbasak: no blockers; just time
<jgrimm> rbasak, time is it.  ldap one i still want.   the other one i need to handoff
<rbasak> rharper: OK, thanks.
<caribou> rbasak: fine with me
<kickinz1> need to speak with you about docker.
<rbasak> jgrimm: that's fine. Let's unassign you.
<jgrimm> rbasak, thank you.
<rbasak> jgrimm: bug 1488453 I take it?
<ubottu> bug 1488453 in openhpi (Ubuntu) "Package postinst always fail on first install when using systemd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488453
<jgrimm> rbasak, y
<smoser> rbasak, sure. please sign me up
 * rbasak juggles bugs
<rbasak> caribou, can I give you bug 1494141 and bug 1434684 please?
<ubottu> bug 1494141 in haproxy (Ubuntu) "HAProxy 1.5 init script does not terminate processes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1494141
<ubottu> bug 1434684 in corosync (Ubuntu) "Pacemaker is not started and stopped automatically with Corosync" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1434684
<caribou> rbasak: sure
<rbasak> caribou: no major rush - an average of one a week is fine; I just try and assign multiple bugs to avoid people having nothing to do if blocked.
<rbasak> Thanks
<rbasak> kickinz1: ack about docker, though I'm treating that separate from this topic of bug assignments
<rbasak> rharper: I think you're good with the bugs you have for now?
<kickinz1> rbasak, no blocker then, except time.
<stgraber> rbasak: sorry, in another meeting. Sure, you can assign me stuff but no promises as to when I'll get to them, I already have about 40 or so bugs assigned to me right now (excluding lxc/lxd upstream stuff) :)
<rharper> rbasak: ack
<rbasak> I have some easier bugs lined up, but I want to keep them away from stgraber, hallyn, smoser or other core devs so we can ramp the others up :)
<rbasak> I think I only have core devs left unassigned for now. I don't have a list of suitable bugs for you right now, so let's not hold the meeting up. I'll get back to you.
<rbasak> Thanks all.
<kickinz1> thanks Robie
<rbasak> Oh, bug 1488453 is fairly important.
<ubottu> bug 1488453 in openhpi (Ubuntu) "Package postinst always fail on first install when using systemd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488453
<rbasak> smoser: mind grabbing that one please?
<smoser> sure
<rbasak> Thanks. OK, I'm done.
<jgrimm> thanks rbasak
<zul> cool anything else?
<zul> ...
<zul> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<zul> hi caribou
<caribou> Just uploaded a fix for makedumpfile to avoid the "unsupported kernel" msg for trusty
<caribou> awaiting SRU
<caribou> other than that I'm good
<zul> cool any questions for caribou?
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<zul> hi matsubara
<matsubara> hi zul, nothing new to report. Any questions?
<zul> ...
<zul> #topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: : Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing to report about kernel I believe. Oh maybe... sforshee reported there had been nested container issues he and hallyn are/were looking at. Otherwise I, for known reasons, would need a few slices of rbasak time.
<zul> cool anything for smb?
<hallyn> smb: i think nested containers are working again.  well as they can
<hallyn> new kernel bogosity required undesirable workarounds, but...
<zul> anything else?
<smb> hallyn, ok, I guess that sounds... good
<hallyn> :)
<zul> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Upcoming Call For Papers
<zul> uh...not sure about this one
<zul> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> uos is coming up and ods is coming up as well
<hallyn> as i said last time, might be worth a uos session on cgroup boot-time setup
<zul> coolio
<smoser> hallyn, +1
<zul> #topic open discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: open discussion
<smoser> that'd be nice.
<hallyn> smoser: cool, i intend to raise the topic when call for blueprints comes up
<zul> neat
<zul> #topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: : Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<zul> next week same time
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 15 16:21:48 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-15-16.02.moin.txt
<caribou> thank zul !
<rharper> zul: thanks!
<matsubara> thanks zul!
<kickinz1> thanks zul
<arges> o/
<smb> o/
<arges> i win
<bjf> o/
<smb> and bothe beat cking
<chiluk> o/
<kamal> o/
<bjf> it hasn't started yet
<kamal> doh!
<smb> we are super motivated
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 15 17:00:52 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<ppisati> \o/
<bjf> o/
<chiluk> o/
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<kamal> \o/
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<kamal> \o
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<henrix> o/
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<cking> o/ yo
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> Our Wily kernel remains based on 4.2 final and is available in the
<jsalisbury> archive, ie. 4.2.0-7.7.  We will continue to track 4.2 for
<jsalisbury> the remainder of the 15.10 cycle.  As a reminder, we are approaching
<jsalisbury> Wily Kernel Freeze on Oct 8, ~3 weeks away.  If there are any patches
<jsalisbury> which need to land for 15.10, please get them submitted soon.  Following
<jsalisbury> the Kernel Freeze deadline, all patches are subject to our SRU policy.
<jsalisbury> -----
<jsalisbury> Important upcoming dates:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<jsalisbury> Thurs Sep 24 - Final Beta (~1 week away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Oct  8 - Kernel Freeze (~3 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Oct 15 - Final Freeze (~4 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Oct 22 - 15.10 Release (~5 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/lts-utopic/Vivid (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/lts-utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *     Precise - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *      Trusty - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *  lts-Utopic - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *      Vivid  - Verification & Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 04-Sep through 26-Sep
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          04-Sep   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 06-Sep - 12-Sep   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 13-Sep - 19-Sep   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 20-Sep - 26-Sep   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 15 17:04:54 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-15-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<elacheche_anis> o/
<lunapersa2> Hi wxl
<jose> #startmeeting LoCo Council Meeting, Sept. 15, 2015
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 15 20:08:20 2015 UTC.  The chair is jose. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo Council Meeting, Sept. 15, 2015 | Current topic:
<jose> #voters PabloRubianes nhaines wxl jose coolbhavi SergioMeneses
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: nhaines
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: coolbhavi
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: SergioMeneses
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes SergioMeneses coolbhavi jose nhaines wxl
<PabloRubianes> hello
<jose> who's here?
<elacheche_anis> o/
<jose> I'll wait a couple more minutes.
<elacheche_anis> jose: you missed lunapersa2 from the LoCo council too :p She can't vote for her own team but she can do that for the other one.. Am I wrong?
<lunapersa2> hi jose
<jose> didn't miss anything, we're gonna vote on that one first
<jose> trying to work it the easy way with the bot
<jose> not sure on how to remove voters :P
<elacheche_anis> jose: you can add voters one by one :)
<jose> meetingology is weird
<meetingology> jose: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
<jose> see?
<elacheche_anis> loool :D ' #voters lunapersa2 ' should add her to the list, I did this many times with the Mermebrship Board meetings x)
<jose> yes, which is the reason why I didn't add now and will do later
<PabloRubianes> it doesn't matter
<PabloRubianes> please move forward
<elacheche_anis> Ah! OK :) So you'll go for a LIFO pipe?
<jose> ok, so who from the lc is here?
<jose> !lococouncil
<ubottu> The LoCo Council is coolbhavi, jose, SergioMeneses, PabloRubianes, nhaines, wxl, and lunapersa - they are here to help, just ask! :) You can send them an email at loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com
<PabloRubianes> o/
<wxl> o/
<wxl> indeed
<lunapersa2> o/
<jose> let's see if nhaines will join
<jose> ok, so let's roll with this
<jose> we've got ubuntu-tn first, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/ReVerificationApplication2015
<jose> #topic ubuntu-tn re-verif
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo Council Meeting, Sept. 15, 2015 | Current topic: ubuntu-tn re-verif
<elacheche_anis> Ubuntu-tn LoCo contact here o/
<jose> hi
<jose> anything you'd want to say?
<elacheche_anis> With some supporters from our LoCo â nizarus lunapersa2 Dro__  :)
<jose> we'll get to them in a bit
<elacheche_anis> OK :) I'm here to answer your questions :)
<jose> any questions?
<PabloRubianes> no the wiki looks solid
<elacheche_anis> Here is our Re-Verification Wiki â https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/ReVerificationApplication2015
<jose> LC, ready to vote?
<PabloRubianes> yes
<nhaines> Yes.
<jose> #vote ubuntu-tn re-verif
<meetingology> Please vote on: ubuntu-tn re-verif
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<nhaines> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhaines
<jose> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jose
<PabloRubianes> +1 nice work
<meetingology> +1 nice work received from PabloRubianes
<jose> wxl?
<jose> wxl?
<nhaines> He may have been called away unexpectedly.
<jose> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: ubuntu-tn re-verif
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<jose> congrats
<PabloRubianes> congrats elacheche_anis
<elacheche_anis> Thanks guys :D
<nhaines> Very, very good work.  Good luck for October, there are some great things planned.  :)
<Dro__> congrats , awesome team :)
<elacheche_anis> Many thanks guys :D This will motivate us more and more :D
<nizarus> congrats elacheche_anis and the u-tn LoCo
<elacheche_anis> Thx PabloRubianes jose nhaines :D
<jose> now, let's move to AZ
<jose> #topic ubuntu-us-az re-verif
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo Council Meeting, Sept. 15, 2015 | Current topic: ubuntu-us-az re-verif
<jose> anyone from AZ around?
<jose> no one from AZ?
<genii> jose: I just went o their channel and reminded them.
<jose> oh, thanks genii
<genii> jose: Unfortunately it didn't seem to have much effect.
<jose> I guess we'll call it a meeting.
<jose> thanks all
<jose> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 15 20:43:44 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-15-20.08.moin.txt
<jose> #voters
<jose> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 15 20:44:17 2015 UTC.  The chair is jose. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jose> #voters
<meetingology> Current voters:
<jose> #voters all
<meetingology> Everyone can now vote
<jose> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 15 20:44:27 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-15-20.44.moin.txt
<MajB> Did some ask for an AZLOCO member
<Yorokobi> genii, last time we tried this (AZ loco), we were told to use LP and not worry about another IRC meeting.
<sarnold> MajB: the meeting's ended, see http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-15-20.44.moin.txt
<genii> MajB: The #ubuntu-us-az was earlier up for re-verification in #ubuntu-meeting, no members were available. The meeting has since finished however.
<nhaines> Yorokobi: the LP bug is still active and pending.
<MajB> We were scheduled for revalidation in July and again in August and no one showed from the council.
<MajB> This is nice.
<MajB> How long does it take for the  Local Community Council to vote on a re-validation request?
<elacheche_anis> MajB: Ask in #ubuntu-locoteams
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-17
<sil2100> o/
<barry> \o
<cyphermox> o/
<infinity> *oontz oontz oontz*
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 17 15:02:05 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx)
<slangasek> barry tdaitx sil2100 doko caribou robru cyphermox bdmurray pitti infinity slangasek
<barry> \o/
<barry> more py35 stuff. cmd2 0.6.8-0ubuntu1; LP: #1491888; LP: #1488175; LP: #1491620 & Debian bug #797840; pycparser 2.14+dfsg-2; pytest 2.7.3-1; mugshot -.3.0-0ubuntu4; python-future 0.15.2-1; LP: #1491878 & python-babel 1.3+dfsg.1-6; genshi 0.7-5; investigated pyke ftbfs (it's dead upstream afaict).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1491888 in cliff "python-cliff 1.14.0 ftbfs with Python 3.5 in Wily" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1491888
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1488175 in Autopilot "FTBFS on Wily" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1491620 in ply (Ubuntu) "ply 3.4-5 ftbfs with Python 3.5" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1491620
<ubottu> Debian bug 797840 in src:ply "ply: Please upload ply 3.7, or wait for Python 3.5 compatibility" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/797840
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1491878 in python-babel (Ubuntu) "python-babel 1.3+dfsg.1-5 ftbfs in Wily" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1491878
<barry> investigated LP: #1495688 & LP: #1495207
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1495688 in Ubuntu system image "system-image-cli tool fails on dangling symlink" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1495207 in system-image (Ubuntu) "BQ E4.5 (r24): after fine update to r25 system is reported as r-1 and as "never" updated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495207
<barry> interviews
<barry> --done--
<tdaitx> Current/Past
<tdaitx> - fixed JDK 7 TLS 1.2 and JDK 6 TLS 1.1 regressions; new webrevs are available
<tdaitx> - setup UMT locally; investigating sbuild charm to maybe try umt on canonistack
<tdaitx> - created MIR request for bats (LP: #1496050)
<tdaitx> - refactored JRuby 3310 PR (now closed), new PR 3331 has been proposed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1496050 in bats (Ubuntu) "[MIR] bats" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496050
<tdaitx> - squid3 FTBFS: fixed 2 of 3 issues (LP: #1496223); updated glibc to 2.22 for testing and then realized that the PPA would not use it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1496223 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "squid3 FTBFS due to linux-libc-dev and libc6-dev headers mismatch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496223
<tdaitx> - moving TCK to canonistack, learning and investigating how to create a charm to run it
<tdaitx> Next steps
<tdaitx> - complete moving TCK to canonistack and run the full suite
<tdaitx> - FTBFS fixes and triaging
<tdaitx> Waiting/On hold
<tdaitx> - waiting OCA to submit webrevs for 7093640 backport (set TLS 1.1 as default for JDK 6 and TLS 1.2 as default for JDK 7); not blocking anything for now, just waiting
<tdaitx> - headers mismatch between linux-libc-dev_4.2.0-10.11 and libc6-dev_2.21-0ubuntu4 causes squid3 to FTBFS (LP: #1496223); how to proceed?
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> Current/Past
<pitti> tdaitx: UMT?
<tdaitx> - fixed JDK 7 TLS 1.2 and JDK 6 TLS 1.1 regressions; new webrevs are available
<tdaitx> - setup UMT locally; investigating sbuild charm to maybe try umt on canonistack
<tdaitx> - created MIR request for bats (LP: #1496050)
<tdaitx> - refactored JRuby 3310 PR (now closed), new PR 3331 has been proposed
<tdaitx> - squid3 FTBFS: fixed 2 of 3 issues (LP: #1496223); updated glibc to 2.22 for testing and then realized that the PPA would not use it
<tdaitx> - moving TCK to canonistack, learning and investigating how to create a charm to run it
<tdaitx> Next steps
<tdaitx> - complete moving TCK to canonistack and run the full suite
<tdaitx> - FTBFS fixes and triaging
<sil2100> ugh, double paste!
<tdaitx> Waiting/On hold
<tdaitx> - waiting OCA to submit webrevs for 7093640 backport (set TLS 1.1 as default for JDK 6 and TLS 1.2 as default for JDK 7); not blocking anything for now, just waiting
<tdaitx> - headers mismatch between linux-libc-dev_4.2.0-10.11 and libc6-dev_2.21-0ubuntu4 causes squid3 to FTBFS (LP: #1496223); how to proceed?
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> ops, double post, sorry
<tdaitx> twice done I would say
<tdaitx> pitti, this -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/BuildEnvironment#Setting_up_and_using_UMT
<sil2100> - First week after holidays!
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Preparing meizu.zh re-releases for OTA-6
<sil2100> - Ubuntu-PD:
<sil2100>   * Adding the pocket-desktop seed
<sil2100>   * Releasing the new ubuntu-touch-meta with ubuntu-pocket-desktop
<sil2100>   * Preparing livecd-rootfs for building ubuntu-pd images
<sil2100> - appmenu-qt5:
<sil2100>   * Preparing and testing initial version of Qt5 platformmenu shortcuts fix
<sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
<sil2100> - Updating seeds as per various requests
<sil2100> - CI Train:
<sil2100>   * Preparing quick-fix for archive permissions check
<sil2100>   * Quick-fix for small issue with certain cases of merge & clean
<sil2100> - Investigating strange build failures in the CI Train
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> no doko here; caribou
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  - Bug #1434684 : not a bug
<ubottu> bug 1434684 in corosync (Ubuntu Trusty) "Pacemaker is not started and stopped automatically with Corosync" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1434684
<caribou>  - CVE work with Pitti
<caribou>  - Bug #1494141 - haproxy 1.5 does not terminate
<ubottu> bug 1494141 in trusty-backports "HAProxy 1.5 init script does not terminate processes" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1494141
<caribou>  - Bug #1496317 Wily failed kdump crash
<ubottu> bug 1496317 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "kexec fails with OOM killer with the current crashkernel=128 value" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496317
<caribou>  - Bug #1469054 - SRUed fix for warning msg on Trusty
<ubottu> bug 1469054 in makedumpfile (Ubuntu Trusty) "Unsupported kernel warning while running makedumpfile" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1469054
<caribou> â Done
<bdmurray> robru is out right?
<slangasek> robru is on vacation this week
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox>  - still working on fwupdate.
<cyphermox>  - reviewed, sponsored packages for Ubuntu-MATE
<cyphermox>  - debugging + fix for LP: #1479213 in grub-installer (> 26 disk installs)
<cyphermox>    - also the SRUs of the fix to trusty and vivid (in the queue now)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1479213 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Trusty) "ISST-SAN: fsp-chip: Alpine: LE-UBUNTU 15.10: LPAR chip01 unable to install base OS due to inability to install the GRUB boot loader on hard disk" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1479213
<cyphermox>  - SRU for network-manager LP: #1436330
<slangasek> tdaitx: bug #1496223 - a header mismatch between libc6 and linux-libc-dev is a bug in those packages; open tasks against glibc and linux on that bug?
<cyphermox>  - debugging unity-control-center issue
<ubottu> bug 1496223 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "squid3 FTBFS due to linux-libc-dev and libc6-dev headers mismatch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496223
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1436330 in network-manager (Ubuntu Vivid) "Network Manager doesn't set metric for local networks any more, causing connection issues" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436330
<cyphermox>  - ubiquity:
<cyphermox>    - fix crasher bug LP: #1495017 due to bad GetDevices() call.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1495017 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Wily) "ubiquity crashed with permission error on NetworkManager GetDevices() call" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495017
<cyphermox>    - merged multiple fixes to autopilot tests from Dan Chapman
<cyphermox>    - merged icon-theme fix for tests from Laney.
<cyphermox>  - sponsored kbd fix for wily LP: #869017
<cyphermox>  - debugging grub-install issue in LP: #1487365
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 869017 in kbd (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu server enables screenblanking, concealing crashdumps (DPMS is not used)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869017
<cyphermox>  - reviewing LP: #1469143, LP: #1482851
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1487365 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu14.04 .3 RAID installation fails on firestone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1487365
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1469143 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "kpartx -d fails with image paths longer than 63 characters" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1469143
<tdaitx> infinity, relatime since 8.04? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab#line-84
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1482851 in os-prober (Ubuntu) "Windows 10 is detected as Windows 8" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1482851
<cyphermox>  - continuing on fixing up ibmpmlinux upload.
<cyphermox> (done)
<pitti> cyphermox: ah, so NM didn't actually change API in GetDevices(), but the call in ubiquity was wrong all along?
<tdaitx> slangasek, will do, thanks =)
<cyphermox> oh, and I forgot, some citrain babysitting
<infinity> tdaitx: Yeah, I came to the same conclusion, so my issue is elsewhere. :P
<bdmurray> updated retracer.py not to log the swift token as it is noisy in the logs
<cyphermox> pitti: nah, it didn't change, the call was wrong all along (or incomplete, at lest)
<bdmurray> investigation into lcy01 incident and retracers disappearing
<bdmurray> research into how to debug rabbitmq
<bdmurray> documented issue with rabbitmq, emailed people about it
<bdmurray> create a flow chart of retracer actions
<bdmurray> investigation into / fix of retraces being stuck on old core files (RT 84666)
<bdmurray> found out the issue was with the retracers double ack'ing cores in some cases :-|
<bdmurray> tested / fixing retracing of the failed_queues (adding retracers on hold until lcy01 back)
<bdmurray> resolved (r677) issues with retracer's handling of old core files that don't exist in swift
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding updating apport on staging (fixing LP: #1487174)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1487174 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-retrace's build sandbox routine carries on if it can't find the package for an ExecutablePath" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1487174
<bdmurray> set up retracer and charm to use a command line option for the location to store core files
<bdmurray> spent time trying to square away my canonistack retracers (seems like a juju failure)
<bdmurray> added an apport hook for shim signed (LP: #1490030)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1490030 in shim-signed (Ubuntu) "shim-signed should include an apport hook applying to shim and shim-signed source packages" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490030
<bdmurray> research into supporting Trusty to Vivid upgrades (found LP: #1258639)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1258639 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Saucy) "need to support upgrades from 12.10 to 13.10" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1258639
<bdmurray> sponsored live-build upload for sil2100
<bdmurray> â done
<sil2100> bdmurray: \o/ thanks!
<pitti> autopkgtest: Teach britney and autopkgtest about supporting running kernel-related tests (DKMS, LXC, etc.) on multiple kernels. This requires keeping track of test triggers, calculating/triggering reverse dependencies on supported architectures only, some rewiring of britney's logic, exposing runtime kernel information in the results, etc. We are 90% there, then we have fully automatic regression
<pitti> testing on all supported releases and kernels. While painful, this also led to some much more robust concepts and code in britney.
<pitti> apport: Work on yet undisclosed security issue
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - fix broken chef, puppet, and crash autopkgtests
<pitti>  - python-dbusmock: Review/merge pete-wood's NetworkManager template improvement, land it in all places
<pitti>  - Update SRU policy proposals, send new proposals to TB list
<pitti> ^D
<sil2100> I now need to get the livecd-rootfs hack back for the overlay...
<infinity> - Kernel SRU wrangling
<infinity> - Planning release sprint
<infinity> - Hunting glibc test regressions
<infinity> - Fixed a dpkg trigger loop in software-center
<infinity> - More s390x meetings, planning, and bootstrapping
<infinity> (done)
<slangasek>  * interviews
<slangasek>  * s390 recruiting attempts
<slangasek>  * a bit of cdimage handholding for a snappy image release
<slangasek>  * discussions about how to help get juju-core into main for 15.10
<slangasek>  * minor consulting on the pocket desktop seed
<slangasek>  * next week:
<slangasek>   * out on vacation
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> questions on status?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] team sprint
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: team sprint
<slangasek> just a quick status update for everyone
<slangasek> planning on this is still in progress.. we are still targeting the first week in November
<caribou> during UOS ?
<slangasek> however it looks like we'll probably move continents, Bluefin is already booked up that week
<slangasek> caribou: correct
<barry> slangasek: awesome, i've never been to antartica!
<infinity> slangasek: Asia? :)
<slangasek> trolls, I'm surrounded by trolls
<sil2100> Asia would be nice
<slangasek> so, we're looking at locations in the US
 * bdmurray weeps
<infinity> Boourns.
<caribou> yep was a good Rock group
<slangasek> as soon as we have something locked in, you'll get an email
<cyphermox> :/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<infinity> I suppose I should have done the stgraber thing and announced my upcoming travel.
<infinity> I'll be in SF for Connect next week, and in Detroit for $reasons the week after (working, though).
<pitti> US> bummer for conf overlap with Berlin :/
<bdmurray> I'll be out at a conference a couple of days (W, Th) next week.
<slangasek> infinity: yeah, doko is there next week too
<infinity> slangasek: Connect, I hope, not Detroit.  The latter could get awakward.
<infinity> awkward, too.
 * slangasek gives infinity an awk award
 * infinity goes awakward toward all the waks.
<cyphermox> are there sed awards too?
<infinity> cyphermox: The sed award is usually "you should have used awk".
<slangasek> infinity: heresy
<infinity> I stand by it.
<slangasek> right, anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 17 15:21:14 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-17-15.02.moin.txt
<barry> thanks!
<slangasek> thanks!
<infinity> *wave*
<tdaitx> thanks =)
<caribou> thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<sil2100> o/
 * popey looks around for a community council
 * mhall119 is here
<mhall119> #startmeeting CC catchups
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 17 17:04:27 2015 UTC.  The chair is mhall119. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | CC catchups Meeting | Current topic:
<cprofitt> hello all
<mhall119> today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mhall119> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mhall119> so dpm (and I) are in a call right now, so the community team catchup might be short
<mhall119> and dholbach is already EOD
<popey> uh
<popey> i think you are looking at the wrong date
<popey> [M#xQKubuntu Council 17:00UTC 17th September / Membership Board 17:30UTC 17th September
<mhall119> ah, so I am, need to update the wiki page
<mhall119> Kubuntu Council first then
<mhall119> yofel: ping
 * mhall119 doesn't see anybody else form the KC here
<cprofitt> I know we have new KC members
 * elacheche  is wondering why there is wrong informations in here â https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda#Membership_candidates
<mhall119> I think we've got a hangout scheduled for them sometime soon too
<popey> elacheche: its a wiki, fix it :)
<yofel> next wednesday I believe
<mhall119> yeah, just really outdated info
<yofel> you have a meeting now?
<mhall119> yofel: we had a regularly scheduled catchup scheduled for today
<elacheche> I'll do that :) Just let's finish this meeting :D And it's on my ToDo :)
<popey> \o/
<mhall119> but we can postpone it since we already have another scheduled
<popey> thanks elacheche
<elacheche> :)
<mhall119> #topic Membership Board catchup
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | CC catchups Meeting | Current topic: Membership Board catchup
<yofel> mhall119: lets do that then, thanks
<mhall119> yofel: no problem
<mhall119> popey: are you here to represent the membership board?
<mhall119> anyone else from the MB here?
<popey> me and some others
<elacheche> Ok then.. I think that am the only one from MB! As the meeting is supposed to be after 20min :)
<pleia2> elacheche as well
<popey> Yeah, we sent a reminder to the RMB that it's at 17:30 UTC
<mhall119> popey: who many membership applications have you guys had in the past cycle? (estimates okay)
<pleia2> ah, we need to fix that on our agendas
<popey> Dunno if everyone is available
<popey> half a dozen or so
<pleia2> it rarely is at :30, usually just goes with the flow of the meeting
<pleia2> half dozen for both time slots?
<mhall119> popey: how many have been approved? Are you getting good quality applications?
<elacheche> mhall119, define "cycle"? â I'm from the new members in the board..
<popey> elacheche: 6 months
<popey> between releases
<popey> (or between now and the last time we spoke to the CC)
<elacheche> I don't have that infromation, I can chekc the LP group to have it..
<pleia2> elacheche: it's ok, popey told us :)
 * wxl wakes up
<pleia2> hey wxl
<mhall119> hi wxl
 * wxl waves
<elacheche> I was about to ping you wxl :D
<wxl> i don'/t know why i didn't have this in my calendar
<cprofitt> elacheche: good to see you are eager to learn all of this. Glad to have you on the board.
<mhall119> what areas of the project have the recent applicants been coming from?
<wxl> my guess is that this hapepned before i took a place on the board
<elacheche> Thx cprofitt :)
<wxl> mhall119: kind of all over, but there have been at least a couple canonicals, so you folks at HQ are doing a good job XD
<pleia2> that's good to hear
<mhall119> wxl: nice :)
<popey> 10 since april, 17 since january (better numbers than my 'half a dozen' plucked from the air)
<elacheche> mhall119, yeah there was some canonical people applying.. It was good to see them interested to the community
<popey> +1
<mhall119> elacheche: agreed
<wxl> they also seem legitimately engaged with the community, as well, which was good
<elacheche> yep
<mhall119> any problems or blockers that the CC can help you with?
<elacheche> The add of a 3rd slot was a good move as well!
<popey> I have noticed a few of the new people are young, which is good to see too.
<cprofitt> elacheche: yes, it is good to see Canonical employees taking an interest in the community.
 * wxl nods
<wxl> actually i've been mentoring a 13 year old who's really fantastic
<popey> \o/
<wxl> mhall119: off hand, i can't really think of anything we're struggling with currently
<wxl> you guys?
<popey> No, the process works, people turn up and we do our job.
 * wxl nods
<pleia2> glad to hear
<wxl> applications have been strong, too
<popey> The thing we do slip up on sometimes is 1) adding people to ~ubuntumembers and 2) telling the news team
<popey> 1) is somewhat more critical than 2)
<wxl> "somewhat" XD
<popey> I think we just need to nail down who chairs each meeting and they have the responsibility of doing the admin afterwards
<pleia2> people really do like seeing their name in the newsletter when they become a member
<elacheche> Yeah popey.. Sometimes I see get email notification about 1) and don't know who did that
<wxl> perhaps we should work out a rotation, popey ?
<mhall119> popey: show is the chair currently selected, just whomever is there?
<elacheche> I mean what board did it
<popey> wxl: yeah, I'd be up for that
<popey> mhall119: yeah, people have basically just put their hand up for it
<popey> we haven't forced anyone to chair
<popey>  
<popey>  
<popey> yet
<mhall119> rotating is a good idea, people would know ahead of time when it's their turn
<popey> be good to have rotation, I agree wxl
<popey> they can be responsible for the reminder email too.
<wxl> ok let's see if we can set something up by email
<wxl> yes!
<popey> we could add the chair to the wiki so everyone knows
<wxl> yeah that's a great idea
<popey> ok, I'll take an action to do that
<wxl> thank you
<popey> np
<wxl> maybe we should include an unlinked wiki page that documents what needs to be done
<wxl> for us noobs :)
<mhall119> do we have any set goals for the number of new members in the next cycle, and if not what do you think about setting such a goal?
<elacheche> Kilos, we started with CC :)
<Kilos> sorry for being late all
<PabloRubianes> I m late too
<wxl> mhall119: i think it may be hard within the council to actually affect progress towards that goal, but it's a great idea. might encourage us to do some outreach and mentor people to be mentors to the people in their community
<cprofitt> no problem Kilos and PabloRubianes we know that volunteers and international time zones do not always make it easy to make meetings.
<elacheche> mhall119, we never discussed to set a members number as a goal..
<popey> Yeah, seems an odd thing to do.
<cprofitt> wxl: we need to keep goals attainable
<popey> I mean, I can see why we might as a _project_ do that
<wxl> +1 popey
<popey> and we would obviously help participate in that
<elacheche> We have some propostitions about 2 UOS session
<mhall119> wxl: it would be just on the membership boards to reach those goals either, but a goal would give us somethign to take to other project teams
<cprofitt> attaining a number of new members is not something that should be made a goal.
<popey> it could be abused by us
<popey> we would go round looking for any flotsam and jetsam to keep our numbers
<wxl> true
<cprofitt> a better goal would be to set goals with regards to making people aware of membership and all the mechanisms to obtain it
<popey> Sounds like the CC should have that goal :)
<mhall119> it could be, but it could also help us give membership more focus as a whole, across the Ubuntu project
<wxl> and i think we've been working on that cprofitt
<cprofitt> wxl: that is measurable and attainable
<elacheche> mhall119, popey, belkins suggested 2 sessions during the next UOS â The first one is a "meet and greet" session where we introduce ourselves and answer questions that may come up (and also requests for feedback on their wiki pages, ect).  I don't care if this session is done on IRC only.  It might be the best idea for everyone.
<elacheche> The second and final idea is do another session like in the last UOS where we discussed ideas on how to increase Membership within.
<wxl> for example, belkinsa and i worked together to brainstorm ideas that lead to changes to the membership wiki about social capital benefits of membership https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership#The_Benefits
<PabloRubianes> as we are getting fewer candidates, having a goal is not gonna fix that
<wxl> based on feedback we got from contributors that didn't feel motivated to get their membership
<mhall119> elacheche: I like that idea
<cprofitt> wxl good stuff...
<elacheche> We will fix the Ubuntu Members map as well.. It's outdated.. I promised to work on it asap
<cprofitt> perhaps setting a goal of producing 'x' number of promotional items - such as creating a Youtube video about membership or something else that reaches out to Ubuntu users who are not members.
<cprofitt> those I think are excellent goals and are attainable and measurable.
<wxl> cprofitt: again that sounds more like something that would make a nice project, though, rather than a goal, as popey said
<cprofitt> elacheche: the sessions at UOS would be valuable too.
<cprofitt> the goal would be to produce 'x' resources
 * elacheche nods
<mhall119> cprofitt: that sounds more like a work item, not a goal
<cprofitt> the Youtube was an example of a specific item that would be counted towards reaching the goal.
<wxl> thanks for putting my idea into works, mhall119
<wxl> s/idea/thought/
<popey> Are there any goals else where in the project? Number of MOTU developers? Number of translators?
<cprofitt> I do not want to derail this discussion on goals...
<popey> Would seem a bit lop-sided to aim for more members, but not look at the other areas too.
<cprofitt> http://www.hr.virginia.edu/uploads/documents/media/Writing_SMART_Goals.pdf
<mhall119> popey: agreed, I'd like to set more goals across all of those metrics
<cprofitt> a good resrouce for goals.
<popey> mhall119: set that as a goal for you, "[mhall119] More goals"
<mhall119> ok, so it sounds like I should bring this up within the CC first, and then break it down to sub-teams
<wxl> HHAHAHAH
<popey> +1
<wxl> seriously, though, i think that would be wise
 * cprofitt nods
<cprofitt> I agree.
<wxl> i have no reservations about setting goals, but as cprofitt said they need to be both measurable and attainable
<mhall119> ok, that's all I have for the membership boards
<mhall119> pleia2: cprofitt czajkowski anything else?
<cprofitt> Just remind everyone about the upcoming election for the CC
<pleia2> all good
<pleia2> thanks for coming :)
<popey> \o/
<elacheche> o/
<Kilos> o/
<cprofitt> We need people to nominate qualified people to take positions on the CC
<mhall119> thanks everyone
<mhall119> and we will see the KC next week(?)
<yofel> sure, most of us will try to be there if possible
<wxl> i wouldn't mind joining the cc, too, but i don't knwo if that's reasonable considering i'm on subboards
<PabloRubianes> ohh a notice to the CC, from the LC
<mhall119> thanks yofel
<wxl> is there an LC catch up upcoming PabloRubianes ?
<mhall119> #topic open
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | CC catchups Meeting | Current topic: open
<PabloRubianes> we are having a call for new members soon (maybe today)
<PabloRubianes> as jose and sergio are expiring next month
<popey> uh, that's fun, cc and lc expiring together
<PabloRubianes> wxl: no, but as we are here I let them know :P
<popey> I'd argue if jose and sergio are up for it, extend them for ~3 months so it doesn't overlap with cc election
<cprofitt> PabloRubianes: thanks for letting us know
<mhall119> thanks PabloRubianes
<wxl> i get the feeling jose is done popey
<popey> :(
<wxl> and i dont' hear/see from sergio much at all
<jose> unfortunately, I'm not going to reapply
<wxl> popey: just because he's busy with school, you know?
<jose> and Sergio is now AWOL
<wxl> oh there he is, he can speak for himself :)
<jose> hehe :)
<mhall119> ok, we'll put out a call for nominations
<popey> ok
<jose> also, is it possible to get it back to 6 members?
<jose> we got it up to 7 because there were too many people away
<jose> but I think things are way more stable now
<pleia2> that makes sense
<pleia2> we can always bump it up again if there's a problem
<PabloRubianes> +1 on 6 members
<jose> wxl?
<mhall119> pleia2: cprofitt: who wants to put out the call for LC nominations?
<wxl> jose: +1
<popey> jose: thanks for all your work on the LC!
<wxl> i agree, jose, thank you
<pleia2> I can't commit to doing it today, but we'll see about getting it out
<jose> it's my pleasure :)
<mhall119> ok, we'll work that out ourselves
<mhall119> any other business?
<Kilos> one question peeps
<Kilos> any of the existing cc members available for the next 2 years
<Kilos> ?
<mhall119> Kilos: ?
<Kilos> i mean does expiring meean they gone or will some reapply
<mhall119> Kilos: you'd have to ask us individually
<Kilos> ah
<popey> They have to be nominated (after being asked if they want to stand again)
<wxl> would it be a conflict if i joined the cc while still remaining on a subboard?
<popey> No
<popey> At one point in the past I was on the LoCo Council, Membership Board and CC at the same time ;)
<jose> what do you mean by a subboard?
<wxl> yeah well that's kind of how it would be for me popey :)
<wxl> jose: MB, LC
<popey> the only advice I'd say is don't overcommit and burn out
 * wxl nods
<wxl> well, as always, thanks CC
<wxl> and thanks to all of you wonderful MB folks as well
<wxl> and the few of you LC people
<wxl> andâ¦
<wxl> âº
<mhall119> thanks everyone
<Kilos> thank you wxl
<mhall119> anything else before I end the meeting?
<Kilos> ty mhall119
<mhall119> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 17 17:46:27 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-17-17.04.moin.txt
<mhall119> thanks again everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-20
<oldos2er> Thanks all for being patient, we should be starting soon.
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-09-19
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 19 16:35:35 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> last week worked on the docker interface, updated snappy-debug for new policy/bug fixes, various snappy policy updates, browser-support feedback/improvements, fine-grained autoconnects in snapd, picked up dbus-app discussion, and provided lots of reviews/help/etc to namespace sharing in snap-confine
<jdstrand> this week plan to finish up the namespace sharing card
<jdstrand> finish the docker interface
<jdstrand> respond to feedback on dbus-app interface
<jdstrand> investigate CLONE_NEWUSER issue (I think it is fixed with latest snap-confine, need to fully confirm)
<jdstrand> a few policy updates
<jdstrand> work on snap declarations (PR reviews, review tools updates, etc)
<jdstrand> investigate what network-namespace interface might look like
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> tomorrow, I'm on patch piloting
<mdeslaur> I am currently release tomcat updates
<mdeslaur> and have started working on clamav updates
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much what I'll be doing this week
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm also in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm finishing up sponsoring an update left over from last week (mariadb)
<tyhicks> ah, two happy place weeks in a row :)
<sbeattie> I have kernel USNs to publish since they went out this morning
<sbeattie> I have some apparmor patches to review
<sbeattie> I'll probably try to pick up an additional update as well
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: yeah! It's like paradise! :)
<sbeattie> that'll likely consume my week. tyhicks, over to you
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<tyhicks> now that the kernels have published, I need to go verify an apparmor userspace SRU
<tyhicks> jdstrand: ^ fyi, that'll also feed into your SRU
<tyhicks> jdstrand: so watch for that this week
<tyhicks> I think I'm through all my pending snap-confine reviews
<tyhicks> I'm still testing xenial's apparmor in trusty for an SRU
<tyhicks> and I'm finally working on seccomp logging again
<tyhicks> in fact, I probably need to make a band-aid fix to the 4.8 kernel around seccomp logging this week
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm still working on 4.8 an lxc/d stacking
<jjohansen> we landed a mostly working 4.8 for the kt on the weekend, but it has at least one odd known regression in the test suite to track down
<jjohansen> and not the full set of patches to support lxc/d landed with it as they were exhibiting more bugs
<tyhicks> jjohansen: what test is failing?
<jjohansen> so, I'll be tracking those down this week and they will go in after the beta kernel
<jjohansen> tyhicks: the exec_stack tests
<jjohansen> however they weren't failing in the kernel
<jjohansen> it is userspace segfaulting
<jjohansen> I can't say however its not the kernels fault yet
<tyhicks> jjohansen: let me know if I need to help you straighten that out
<jjohansen> tyhicks: ack
<tyhicks> jjohansen: I could take the userspace portion over and let you sort out the other issue(s)
<jjohansen> tyhicks: maybe, we can discuss off line
 * tyhicks nods
<jjohansen> err, after the meeting
<tyhicks> sounds like a full week
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week
<sarnold> also burning down the list of MIRs, which I understand need some juggling
<sarnold> wds is underway, I should be able to finish it by eod
<tyhicks> great
<sarnold> there's also outstanding apparmor patches I'd love to review, but .. time.
<sarnold> anyway that's me, chrisccoulson?
<ratliff> chrisccoulson may still be out since he had to step away
<ratliff> I'll go ahead and he can jump in anytime if he is around
<ratliff> I'm on CVE triage this week.
<chrisccoulson> I'm back now :)
<tyhicks> hi chrisccoulson :)
<chrisccoulson> I'll let you finish
<ratliff> go ahead chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> oh, ok :)
<chrisccoulson> I've got a Firefox update to do this week, plus a small Oxide update
<chrisccoulson> I'll likely be spending a little bit of time on Firefox again (related to menubar / snappy)
<tyhicks> still have any oxide documentation work remaining?
<chrisccoulson> I landed a bunch of documentation last week in Oxide (http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/oxide-documentation/overview.html). I'm looking forward to doing stuff this week that doesn't involve writing documentation
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> I filed a bunch of bugs last week whilst writing documentation, and I imagine I'll spend some time this week fixing those
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<ratliff> I will also be looking into the pillow update
<ratliff> Spending quality time on the Unity 8 MIR Trello board
<ratliff> And doing further sprint planning
<ratliff> back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/musl.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gridengine.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-cas.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gitlab.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pdns.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 19 16:59:46 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-19-16.35.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-09-20
<jamespage> o/
<nacc> o/
<cpaelzer_> o/
<cpaelzer_> who is the o/ master today
<jamespage> that would be me
<cpaelzer_> yeah
<cpaelzer_> nacc: while we wait
<cpaelzer_> nacc: I couldn
<cpaelzer_> 't find any more progres son the qemu upload you had
<cpaelzer_> befor eI planned to abse mine on yours
<cpaelzer_> but since I was done I uploaded as SRU today
<powersj> o/
<cpaelzer_> nacc: so you might have to rebase for bug ...
<nacc> cpaelzer_: the qemu-img one? yeah, no response yet
<cpaelzer_> yeah this one
<rharper> o/
<nacc> cpaelzer_: that's fine, still want them to test the ppa, as i dont' think your changes had any effect on qemu-img
<jamespage> okies lets kickoff
<cpaelzer_> so other than on our discussion last week where we expected you to be up front I hijacked this partivular package version now
<cpaelzer_> ok jamespage - go
<jamespage> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 20 16:00:54 2016 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<jamespage> welcome!
<jgrimm> o/
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> (jgrimm) Add a url for server release bugs to irc commands for meetings
<jamespage> not that I can see just yet?
<jgrimm> jamespage, leave it there. i want to discuss later
<jamespage> #action jgrimm  Add a url for server release bugs to irc commands for meetings
<meetingology> ACTION: jgrimm  Add a url for server release bugs to irc commands for meetings
<jamespage> right
<jgrimm> thanks
<jamespage> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<jamespage> Final Beta on thursday
<jamespage> Final freeze on the 6th October
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> nothing interesting therein.
<jamespage> nope
<jamespage> anything else to raise? I know I have an expected ovs 2.6.0 release this week to handle
<jamespage> we've been running snapshots to-date
<cpaelzer_> I wait for this snap to get tested with dpdk
<jamespage> jgrimm, anything from you?
<cpaelzer_> but I think I covered the config dpdk on OVS 2.6 bug
<jgrimm> jamespage, i'm good
<jamespage> cpaelzer_, you did - thankyou
<cpaelzer_> one more thing from me
<cpaelzer_> I uploaded a new qemu which changes machine types for migration (meintioned two weeks ago)
<cpaelzer_> if anybody runs into new unexpected issues please let me know
<cpaelzer_> testing can never be complete enough
<nacc> jgrimm: one update on the openipim MR/FFe -- upstream openipmi has no news or changelog file that is current. Which means the FFe is going to be quite a bit of work to submit :/
<nacc> *openipmi
<jgrimm> that's annoying
<nacc> jgrimm: yeah... it's unclear to me how much effort it's worth spending at this point in the cycle?
<jgrimm> ok, chat with me later. leaning that direction
<jamespage> nacc, what's the driver?
<jgrimm> jamespage, nothing but currency
<jamespage> debian has a new version?
<nacc> and embarassingly that i told jgrimm it was already done :)
<jamespage> lol
<jgrimm> heh. i was leaving that out. :)
<nacc> jamespage: newer than what is in yakkety, yeah
<jamespage> .18 -> .22
<jamespage> its only a patch update
<jamespage> how big is the debdiff? I'd debate whether this even needs a FFe
<nacc> the merge itself is very complicated
<nacc> well, relatively speaking
<jamespage> ah so that's where the risk lies
<nacc> imo, yeah
<nacc> also, openipmi versioning is garbage
<jamespage> lol
<jamespage> right so its not really a patch release
<nacc> and 2.0.18 -> 2.0.22 is not necessarily compatible, might be major changes
<jamespage> I like those ones
<nacc> yeah
<jamespage> okies
<nacc> and without a changelog/news, i ahve to go look at the commits :)
<jamespage> jgrimm, nacc: I'd probably timebox effort - and then postpone to +1 if its not looking likely
<jamespage> anything else for yakkety?  we have the normal slew of rc's going in for openstack - release is on the 6th
<jgrimm> jamespage, seems reasonable. thanks
<nacc> jamespage: ack
<jamespage> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<jamespage> caribou, you're up!
<caribou> not much to bring up
<caribou> fixed some APT bug
<caribou> oh, & working on a sosreport charm
<caribou> that's it
<jamespage> caribou, that might make a nice action on any charm tbh
<jamespage> any questions for caribou?
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> ..
<jgrimm> nope
<jamespage> .
<jamespage> ok moving on
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Four remaining automated ISO failures 2x yakkety lxc (still triaging) 2x trusty minimal-virtual (LP# 1625675). Also have the 6x disk-footprint tests to get working.
<jamespage> powersj, hello!
<powersj> howdy!
<powersj> Working on Ubuntu server ISO oversize issues. Filing bug against ghostscript for pulling in a 70+MB font package.
<powersj> Added s390x testing to simplestreams. Triage of Curtin vmtest issues. Submitting request to add i386 slave to Jenkins today. Met with cpaelzer to get QEMU migration tests into Jenkins.
<powersj> Bug triage here and there. Thanks to rbasak for merge request to Ubuntu Sever triage script.
<jamespage> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> questions?
<powersj> comments? suggestions? jokes?
<nacc> powersj: can you provide a link to the tool here too?
<nacc> *script
<powersj> https://github.com/powersj/ubuntu-server-triage
<nacc> thanks!
<jgrimm> thanks powersj
<powersj> np!
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> We might be that >..< close to move to kernel 4.8 for yakkety. Still it is hard to say when for real. Also there was something I thought of bringing up if I could remember... cpaelzer_ , maybe you do? I only find empty space in my brain today ... :/ And we talked about it just yesterday...
<cpaelzer_> hands over an iscsi reminder to smb
<smb> ah right
<jamespage> smb, wow that's a late switch!
<smb> question is the iscsitarget dkms package
 * jamespage shivers a little
<smb> not sure anybody really uses that one still because there is an iscsi target in the kernel
<jamespage> tgt and lio right?
<jamespage> maybe iscsitarget as well?
<smb> tgt is the userspace part
<jamespage> ah yes
<smb> iscsitarget no longer compiles with 4.6 + kernels and upstream has not done any change for a year or more
<smb> So we kind of would want to drop it in yakkety
<smb> and see whether anybody starts screaming
<jamespage> smb, I remember some users at rackspace cloud
<jamespage> we might want to check whether they are still users
<jamespage> leave that with me
<smb> jamespage, ack, thanks
<jamespage> #action jamespage checking with old iscsitarget  users on relevancy with new kernels
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage checking with old iscsitarget  users on relevancy with new kernels
<jamespage> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<jamespage> any calls for papers?
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> ..
<jamespage> .
<jamespage> no ok
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> openstack summit is in a month in barcelona - there will be a few ubuntu-server team members there
<jamespage> anything else?
<jamespage> ...
<cpaelzer_> here
<cpaelzer_> typing
<jamespage> cpaelzer_, ok
 * jamespage waits for cpaelzer_ to type
<cpaelzer_> for former CFP topic
<cpaelzer_> almost forgot
<cpaelzer_> if anybody likes to pick typos and other things to complain about feel free to take a look at
<cpaelzer_> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1mCRAkUO78_Jud9DhFR922AoxrZpGsLbzsPI_SmS0U1U
<cpaelzer_> done
<cpaelzer_> thanks jamespage for waiting on my slow typing
<jamespage> np cpaelzer_
<jamespage> good luck :-)
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jamespage> any open things?
<powersj> rbasak, iso testing?
<rbasak> Yeah
<powersj> how should we plan for that?
<rbasak> So we've been caught short with ISO testing needs during release week in the past.
<rbasak> I thought we could try and nominate testers in advance for that.
<rbasak> So people can schedule in some time.
<jamespage> is this just a final set of eyes on what the automated testing does right?
<rbasak> Some of the automated testing is broken, isn't it?
<rbasak> We had to do some testing manually last time.
<powersj> correct - however I was more concerned with the manual testing
<powersj> re: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<rbasak> I believe some of that was supposed to be automated so we didn't need to do it manually. That's what I believe broke at some point.
<jamespage> yeah - the iso test cases had automated counterparts at one point in time
 * jamespage wrote v1 of that system about 6 years ago
<powersj> well in that case, the yakkety ISO tests are all passing, except the lxc ones
<rbasak> I just thought that if anything manual is required, we could assign it ahead of time. Perhaps to me, nacc, cpaelzer_ with powersj taking point.
<powersj> yeah
<rbasak> That's all I think needs doing.
<jamespage> ok
<cpaelzer_> well, share the pain - thats ok
<powersj> ok I'll put a sheet together and we cna sign up
<rbasak> Thanks!
<cpaelzer_> IIRC in the past xnox did the s390 testing
<cpaelzer_> so it might not be on us only
<jamespage> #action powersj to put together iso testing signup sheet
<meetingology> ACTION: powersj to put together iso testing signup sheet
<jamespage> #topic Assign daily bug triage for week (powersj, rbasak, nacc, cpaelzer)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assign daily bug triage for week (powersj, rbasak, nacc, cpaelzer)
<rbasak> Thank you for bringing that up powersj
<powersj> np
<rbasak> I think this topic is running itself now, along with the bug assignments.
<powersj> yeah
<jamespage> good oh
<rbasak> Does anyone feel we still need these on the agenda?
<powersj> FYI I am sprinting next week, so up to 3 of you
<rbasak> powersj: is the triage rota adjusted appropriately?
<powersj> imo, we can pull it off given it seems to be working, when rbasak does his triage ;)
<rbasak> Oh
<powersj> yes
<rbasak> I believe I'm out next week too
<cpaelzer_> no objections to my assignments for like the next 10 days
<xnox> jamespage, LPAR cannot be end to end automate. z/VM kind of can be - I have some preseeds that are running semi-automated via ssh and c3270 access, KVM can be automated against these, but currently is not.
<rbasak> I caught up on my triaging backlog today :)
<xnox> jamespage, overall it's not automated, and there is no iso.qa.ubuntu.com gated release
<powersj> woohoo
<cpaelzer_> rbasak: you are on 30th septmber next week
<rbasak> cpaelzer_: that's for me to do on Monday, so I guess that's fine?
<powersj> yeah
<powersj> cpaelzer_, and nacc do daily triage all next week
<powersj> rbasak and I take the following week
<cpaelzer_> ok
<jamespage> all good then?
<powersj> I think so
<jamespage> great
<jamespage> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
<nacc> powersj: ack
<rbasak> Any comments on bugwork progress?
<nacc> this one can also be dropped then, from future agendas?
<nacc> or do we want to keep it for a while?
<rbasak> I'm fine to drop it.
<rbasak> We could move any required bugwork discussion into the "Yakkety Development" topic
<nacc> +1
<nacc> in theory, it should be business as usual, unless blocked on something, and bring it up there?
<jgrimm> rbasak, i think i need to do a sweep through it with you.. i think some reassignments may be in order
<rbasak> OK
<jgrimm> or some nudging by me. :)
<powersj> rbasak, fwiw I could use 2 more small ones if you have 'em
<rbasak> powersj: OK, I'll look for some for you.
<rbasak> powersj: feel free to cherry-pick from the backlog yourself if you like.
<powersj> ok
<powersj> I'll do that
<rbasak> I was trying to pick ones that may lead to easy uploads to get you some experience of that.
<jgrimm> rbasak, i'll probably grab a new one too
<rbasak> The "bitesize" tagged ones can be useful for ths.
<cpaelzer_> I already grabbed a few and added them to the list
<cpaelzer_> so no new new ones to be taken atm unfortunately
<rbasak> Yeah I've done the same.
<rbasak> jamespage: I guess we're done with this topic?
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<jamespage> ok so looks like its arosales
<jamespage> same time next week folks
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 16:37:03 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-20-16.00.moin.txt
<nacc> jamespage: thanks!
<rbasak> Thank you for chairing jamespage!
<jamespage> my pleasure!
<jgrimm> thanks jamespage
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-09-22
<pitti> \o
<caribou> o/
 * slangasek waves
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 22 15:01:34 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> It's beta week, so maybe we should make this quick today
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> tdaitx infinity sil2100 xnox cyphermox mwhudson slangasek barry robru pitti bdmurray chiluk caribou doko
 * xnox o/
<slangasek> tdaitx: here?
<slangasek> infinity distinctly not here
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Back from vacation, reading up on e-mail backlog
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - Touch xenial:
<sil2100>   * Started work on splitting xenial touch seeds into two for systemd work
<sil2100>   * Prepared livecd-rootf and cdimage changes for enabling new project for touch-systemd
<sil2100>   * Work halted as we might stay on one channel and concentrate on systemd only
<sil2100> - OTA-13:
<sil2100>   * Prepared release notes
<sil2100>   * Copied images, started phasing, sent out announcements
<sil2100> - zeromq3:
<sil2100>   * Took Steve's zeromq3 test fixes and forward-ported them to the new git-based package
<sil2100>   * Chasing down required FTBFS changes for unity-scopes-api so we can do a no-change rebuild for new zmqpp
<sil2100> - Booking for the sprint in October
<sil2100> - Touch seed changes for various projects
<sil2100> - Enabled the auto package rebuild with instrumentation infra for the KPI initiative
<sil2100> - Started working on more detailed touch system-image maintenance documentation
<sil2100> - Working on getting xenial i386 touch images working again (transitional gles package issues)
<sil2100> (done)
<tdaitx> slangasek, here
<tdaitx> = openjdk 8
<tdaitx> - extracting tests from debian/rules; converting to autopkgtest; checking out which tests are unstable (change pass/fail/error state between runs)
<tdaitx> = jck
<tdaitx> - setting it up to run on 2 separated containers (one with reference implementation from Oracle, another with the openjdk under test) using lxd
<tdaitx> - investigating plugins to start the 2 containers+tests on separated machines using jenkins (required for ppc64el/arm64 as Oracle's reference is amd64 only)
<tdaitx> (done)
<xnox> beta-2 & v4.8 testing on s390x
<xnox> gnugp2 migration fixes
<xnox> migrated ubuntu-keyring to one-file per-key, 1024 keys to be dropped in 17.04.
<xnox> qemu point release update
<xnox> libica / opencryptoki SRU validation
<xnox> hunting down kernel teams' failure to reliably boot s390x bug
<xnox> AOB:
<xnox> who will pick up arges SRU work from October?
<xnox> ..
<pitti> cyphermox?
<bdmurray> Its not AOB time yet!
<slangasek> cyphermox was working on some ubiquity blockers for beta this morning, perhaps he's still tied up there
<slangasek> so:
<slangasek>  * short week, was off Thu-Fri last week; played a lot of email catch-up
<slangasek>  * misc SRU, RM work
<slangasek>   * debugged a problem with out-of-date apt repos on daily CDs, found the real source issue this time
<slangasek>  * SRU for a surprising long-standing bug in our keymap loading (LP: #1621824)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1621824 in kbd (Ubuntu Yakkety) "MFG:Garrison - Ubuntu 16.04.1 dmesg error "systemd[1]: Failed to start Set console keymap."" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1621824
<slangasek>  * discussions around console-conf performance on arm (snappy)
<slangasek>  * wound up spending way too much time making the zeromq3 testsuite parallel-safe for the MIR
<slangasek>   * don't hard-code local port numbers in your testsuite, kids!
<slangasek> (done)
<sil2100> I double that!
<barry> short week due to travel/vaca
<barry> ubuntu-image: issue triage; argument order branch; investigating impliciations of snapcraft changes breaking the CI (LP: #1626236)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1626236 in Snapcraft "snapcraft newly fails on ubuntu-image" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626236
<barry> debuntu: pyparsing 2.1.9+dfsg1-1; LP: #1626201; debian bug #838559
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1626201 in python-virtualenv (Ubuntu Xenial) "missing python*-dev and gcc dependencies" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626201
<ubottu> Debian bug 838559 in python-pex "python-pex: tests started to fail on "Connection refused"" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/838559
<barry> armhf console-conf/python performance testing
<barry> company survey
<barry> --done--
<robru> - bileto.ubuntu.com rollout, deployment migrated from trusty to xenial
<robru> lp:bileto xenial-charm
<robru> * ported charm to xenial
<robru> * dropped no-longer-needed apache vhost stuff
<robru> * fix support for git branches
<robru> * implement juju storage
<robru> lp:bileto master
<robru> * use new bileto.ubuntu.com domain
<robru> * fix nagios checks
<robru> * be more fault tolerant with swift
<robru> * port to xenial
<robru> * fix Mirv's irc nick
<robru> * fix logic for determining when to restart gunicorn3
<robru> * some back-and-forth with sbalda about how best to implement UST (in progress)
<slangasek> "irc nick"?
<robru> lp:canonical-mojo-specs
<robru> * new spec for new xenial bileto.ubuntu.com deployment
<robru> * old spec for requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com now a redirect to bileto.ubuntu.com
<robru> lp:queuebot, lp:phablet-tools, lp:ubuntu-archive-tools
<robru> * s/requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/bileto.ubuntu.com/g
<robru> (done)
<pitti> This has been pretty much completely a "live in the bug tracker and put out fires" week â¹
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<slangasek> robru: "irc nick"?
<pitti> - Add all-proposed=1 argument to a.u.c/request.cgi
<pitti> - Fight with broken images (4.8 kernel) and broken image boot (lcy01 networking trouble)
<pitti> - britney: Fix broken xenial runs (fauxpkg vs. oxide-qt on arm64)
<robru> slangasek: timo's irc nick was misconfigured in lp, I expanded our irc nick support to support his format as well
<pitti> - britney: Move our git repo into Launchpad "britney" project
<pitti> - britney: Write down code pointers and hints for robru for adding PPA support
<pitti> systemd:
<pitti> - Clean up obsolete setcap call (reported by sabdfl)
<slangasek> robru: heh
<pitti> - Fix nsswitch.conf cleanup after removing libnss-* (#1625584)
<pitti> - Investigate networkd regression (Debian #837759), nss-resolved fallback (#1624071), test regression in yakkety (#1624406)
<ubottu> Debian bug 837759 in systemd "network configuration stops working reliably" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/837759
<pitti> - Tweak ondemand.service (#1579278)
<pitti> distro:
<pitti> - network-manager: Adjust tests to changed isc-dhcp behaviour in y-proposed (#1609898), and to fix fake-rfkill module build for kernel 4.8 (#1626568)
<pitti> - nplan: Investigate autopkgtest flakiness (#1625461)
<pitti> - upstart: Fix FTBFS on powerpc
<pitti> - systemd graphical session: ix failed unit cleanup (#1618886)
<pitti> - Build and test first yakkety langpacks
<pitti> - Investigate and report kernel 4.8 regressions (#1626394, #1626429, #1626436, #1625100)
<pitti> - Investigate gprbuild regressions with doko (Debian #838483)
<pitti> - Investigate python-virtualenv regression (#1626201)
<pitti> - Investigate test regressions in mod-wsgi and libapache2-mod-python; regression in invoke-rc.d, upload fix
<ubottu> Debian bug 838483 in gprbuild "gprbuild starts failing with "no native compiler found for language 'ada'"" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/838483
<pitti> misc:
<pitti> - Review http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/using-eni.html code
<pitti> - Review/land lp:~robru/ubuntu-archive-tools/fix-bileto-excuses into lp:ubuntu-archive-tools
<pitti> - Set up Launchpad apport retracers for arm64, ppc64el, powerpc
<pitti> ^D
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> pinged webops about daisy nagios check failing
<bdmurray> rls-y bug triage
<bdmurray> discussed LP: #1610756 with mvo
<bdmurray> uploaded backuppc change to fix upgrade bug LP: #1610756
<bdmurray> SRU verification of upgrade bug LP: #1610756
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1610756 in backuppc (Ubuntu Xenial) "upgrade to 16.04 failed to calculate due to backuppc" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1610756
<bdmurray> investigation into dkms apport package hook error (LP: #1588479)
<bdmurray> uploaded Trusty, Xenial, Yakkety fix for dkms
<bdmurray> investigation into, test writing for LP: #1621629
<bdmurray> pep8 / pyflakes clean-up of update-notifier package
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1588479 in dkms (Ubuntu Xenial) "dkms_packages.py supported kernel check is not working" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1588479
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1621629 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "package-data-downloader fails to process download requests" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1621629
<bdmurray> setup autopkgtest for update-notifier
<bdmurray> investigation into LP: #1602536, LP: #1624641
<bdmurray> modified bug pattern for upgrade LP: #996916
<bdmurray> worked on youtube-dl snap some more
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1602536 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/unattended-upgrade:apt.cache.LockFailedException:/usr/bin/unattended-upgrade@1468:main:do_auto_remove:cache_commit:commit:_fetch_archives" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1602536
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1624641 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "security updates with a new dependency don't get installed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1624641
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 996916 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "postgresql packages in the removal blacklist making it hard to upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/996916
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> chiluk: ?
<slangasek> caribou:
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  APT hash sum mismatch when using mirror:// url (LP: #1625667)
<caribou>   - Identified root cause, mvo reviewing fix and will SRU
<caribou>  makedumpfile fails on 4.8 kernels (LP: #1626269)
<caribou>   - Identified upstream commit, but creates another issue
<caribou>   - Investigating with upstream
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1625667 in apt (Ubuntu Xenial) "Trusty: apt does not try next mirror if index file download fails with mirror:// source" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1625667
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1626269 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626269). The error has been logged
<caribou> Development:
<caribou>  Working on a sosreport charm
<caribou>  tomsfastpath MIR
<caribou>  python-pip sponsorship in Xenial
<caribou> Misc:
<caribou> Interview & meetings
<caribou> â Done
<doko> - started test rebuilds (unfortunately before linux 4.8 was there)
<doko> - fix build failures, chase people to fix build failures
<doko> - merges to fix build failures
<doko> - MIR processing intensified
<doko> - openjdk-9 update
<doko> - forwarding GCC reports
<doko> - try to enable lldb on s390x
<doko> - chasing down autopkg test failures with pitti
<doko> (done)
<cyphermox> oi
<caribou> "<doko> - MIR processing intensified", yeah I did feel that one go by ;)
<cyphermox> MIR:
<cyphermox> - review unity-scope-click
<cyphermox> ubuntu-core:
<cyphermox> - review console-conf merges
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - prepare IPv6 initramfs SRUs
<cyphermox> yakkety:
<cyphermox> - discussion on image build issues with Josh
<cyphermox> - prepare new shim snapshot with fallback fix
<cyphermox> - upload isc-dhcp and initramfs-tools for IPv6 in initramfs
<cyphermox> Â±other stuff:
<cyphermox> - fixes in shim EKU code and fix PR
<cyphermox> - implementing dhcpv6 in initramfs w/ lamont
<cyphermox> (done)
<cyphermox> well, and that ubiquity thing that looks like an issue in polkit
<lamont> \o/ dhcpv6
<cyphermox> yay
<slangasek> cyphermox: are you still driving the polkit fix, or is this on someone else now?
<cyphermox> no, I'm still trying to make sure and figure out whether that really is the case; I could certainly use help from someone more familiar with polkit though
<slangasek> ok
<pitti> note that the new initramfs-tools didn't land yet, as it breaks reboot with at least the multipath-tools test (which still works in y-release)
<slangasek> policykit-1 last uploaded 25 Jul
<slangasek> has this been broken this long?
<cyphermox> that said, looks to me like starting sudo ubiquity helps connecting wifi with NM; and would probably do the same for the drivers
<cyphermox> (I mean, otherwise ubuntu-drivers works, lists the drivers, and you can drive it manually on the command-line, so no reason for it not to work via ubiquity)
<cyphermox> pitti: I don't know why it breaks multipath-tools; I'll check later
<cyphermox> "breaks multipath-tools" <  the tests, doesn't mean it actually breaks anything in mpath
<pitti> right
<slangasek> cyphermox: who can help with polkit, then?
<cyphermox> I don't know
<slangasek> pitti: do you know polkit enough to help? I see your name in the changelog :)
<cyphermox> pitti: didn't you know about polkti?
<pitti> cyphermox: I didn't look deeply into it, there was too much other stuff to firefight today
<slangasek> of course, you're applying a patch from seb128
<pitti> slangasek: yes, I do, I just didn't get aware of *that* bug yet :)
<pitti> which LP# is it?
<slangasek> cyphermox: there, found you someone to help :)
<cyphermox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1626108
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1626108 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity session isn't setting up 3rd party hardware drivers" [Undecided,New]
<cyphermox> pitti: tbf I'm not sure it's polkit, I'm just very suspicious of it because of the denies I get from NM along the way too
<pitti> cyphermox: can you break this down to a pk-check call?
<pitti> there's no debugging information in that LP bug, but it seems you alredy did some; can you please put the notes there?
<cyphermox> I have no idea what this is supposed to be doing in terms of an actual pk action, only that it runs ubuntu-drivers --autoinstall and expects it to write a file with a list of drivers to install
<pitti> well, but that part all happens as root already
<cyphermox> my testing was limited to trying to run ubuntu-drivers on the terminal
<cyphermox> I don't know that it does?
<cyphermox> ubiquity is definitely started as a user
<slangasek> pitti, cyphermox: continue OOB after meeting?
<pitti> *nod*
<cyphermox> yep
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> xnox asked about SRU team staffing...
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> anyone volunteering? :)
<xnox> I volunteer apw
<slangasek> isn't he already on the team?
<apw> yep
<bdmurray> he doesn't have a daily shift listed though
<slangasek> ah
<apw> la la la
<bdmurray> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Publishing
<xnox> apw, should not have been so mean to arges then =)
<apw> heh, there is that
<slangasek> arges has assured us that this is not his reason for leaving
<slangasek> which just means we should've made him do a double SRU team shift while we had him
<slangasek> so, if apw wants to volunteer to take a shift, cool
<xnox> slangasek, to make sure that it would become the reason?!.... =)
<slangasek> or maybe apw wants to volunteer another member of his team for SRU training :)
<slangasek> xnox: if he was going to leave anyway... ;)
<apw> slangasek, they will love me
<slangasek> anyway, I only see people volunteering other people
<slangasek> so yes, we will want to figure out SRU team shifts post-arges
<slangasek> but not solving that here and now
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> I thought rbasak was interested in joining the team some time ago
<slangasek> that rings a bell
<slangasek> bdmurray: do you want to follow up with him?
<bdmurray> slangasek: sure
<slangasek> ta
<slangasek> going once...
<slangasek> going once and a half...
<sil2100> Oh the tension
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 22 15:32:38 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-22-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Thanks!
<caribou> thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-09-18
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> hi!
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 18 16:32:13 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Ismail Belkacim provided a debdiff for xenial for phpldapadmin (LP: #1701731)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1701731 in phpldapadmin (Ubuntu) "phpLDAPadmin <= 1.2.3 'entry_chooser.php' Multiple Cross-Site Scripting" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1701731
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hey
<jdstrand> This week I plan to:
<jdstrand> * finish the reviews surrounding snapd layouts feature PR reviews (PR 3621)
<jdstrand> * get back to investigating device cgroup issues in snapd
<jdstrand> * start next steps of uid/gid work in snapd
<jdstrand> that's it for me. mdeslaur, you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I'm working on apache updates
<mdeslaur> and I'm about to publish a bind9 regression fix that also contains new dnssec keys
<mdeslaur> I'll be picking up something else from the list after that
<mdeslaur> that's it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> oh, good idea bundling the two
<sbeattie> yeah, that's a nice one
<sbeattie> I'm working on publishing kernel USNs, as they went out this morning.
<sbeattie> I'm also working on libxml2 updates
<sbeattie> I'll pick up another one or two updates this week
<sbeattie> I need to do a bit of sprint prep
<sbeattie> and I have some apparmor reviews that have been languishing.
<sbeattie> that's it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I just finished addressing (and retesting) feedback items that came up in my libseccomp PR
<tyhicks> I'll be updating the PR shortly
<tyhicks> I'm also going to prepare a very minimal libseccomp upload for artful
<tyhicks> I have some Linux Security Summit followups
<tyhicks> need to finish packaging/testing fscrypt 0.2.1
<tyhicks> I'll likely have some Rally prep
<tyhicks> and I have an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> so I have to do a few followup items from hallway track discussions, get some pointers to things posted etc.
<jjohansen> I have a bit of prep to do for the upcoming Ralley
<jjohansen> I have a revision of the LSM stacking patches to get ready for the kt
<jjohansen> and then its back to working on the revision of apparmor unix socket mediation so we can get it into the next pull request
<jjohansen> thats it for me, sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week; I own john some apparmor patch reviews, then return to the python-pyelftools MIR, then rally prep
<sarnold> s/own/owe/
<sarnold> I'll probably start another MIR this week so I'd appreciate a new top priority MIR pointer
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got firefox to update this week, although I'm still working through some issues with that
<chrisccoulson> last week I had to spend quite a bit of time making the unity menubar patch work again, which is quite neglected now that I'm not using unity
<chrisccoulson> I've got a trusty build failure to fix, which I think I've figured out just now
<chrisccoulson> And there's an issue with safe browsing to figure out too (it doesn't work in our builds since mozilla switched to the new API)
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I've got chromium to test and publish
<chrisccoulson> And no doubt I'll be spending more time updating rust and pulling hair out
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week.
<ratliff> I will spend some time doing default install audits
<ratliff> I want to pull some images from the kpis to put into the weekly reports, so I will spend some time there and on other technical documentation tasks, and organizational tasks.
<ratliff> leosilva: you are up next
<leosilva> I'm bug triage this week.
<leosilva> I get some updates to do and will keep hunting them during this week.
<leosilva> that is for me, tyhicks , it's back to you
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/festival.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/torbrowser-launcher.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gosa.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/thrift-compiler.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ceph-deploy.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff, leosilva: Thanks!
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 18 16:50:20 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-09-18-16.32.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<leosilva> tks tyhicks
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-09-19
<cpaelzer> I see you all coming
<cpaelzer> o/
<dpb1> hola
<ahasenack> o/
<rbasak> o/
<nacc> o/
<cpaelzer> 1 bonus minute to offend the impatient
<cpaelzer> ok lets get the party started
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 19 16:01:42 2017 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<cpaelzer> lets ask all in one - nacc ipv6 notes and rbasak mysql triage page - carry?
<nacc> cpaelzer: yes please
<rbasak> Please :-/
<cpaelzer> fine
<cpaelzer> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<cpaelzer> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<cpaelzer> #action rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<cpaelzer> getting into artful then
<cpaelzer> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<cpaelzer> #subtopic Current Work
<cpaelzer> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> #subtopic Release Bugs
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> Since this link is all too empty until artful bugs are moved onto artful tasks one can look at the superset
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+bugs
<cpaelzer> Release being exactly a month away now
<cpaelzer> 19th Oct is planned
<cpaelzer> Seeing our postponed release notes I wanted to ask if anyone has anytihng for Artful release notes that we should action
<cpaelzer> if nothing special we usually have at least the major packages manetioned and a link to their release notes
<nacc> cpaelzer: i'll presumably add http2 info if we do enable it/FFe approved
<cpaelzer> e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Server
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Server
<cpaelzer> #action nacc to consider http2 info in artful release notes
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to consider http2 info in artful release notes
<nacc> cpaelzer: thx
<ahasenack> the new bind9 key signing key?
<ahasenack> if that ever migrates :)
<cpaelzer> #action cpaelzer to add a virt-stack release notes entry
<meetingology> ACTION: cpaelzer to add a virt-stack release notes entry
<cpaelzer> oh yeah ahasenack I like that
<nacc> ahasenack: yeah, i think it's worth mentioning
<ahasenack> it was sru'ed already even
<rharper> o/
<cpaelzer> #action ahasenack add a release note entry on the bind9 key signing key change
<meetingology> ACTION: ahasenack add a release note entry on the bind9 key signing key change
<ahasenack> cpaelzer: do we need to create it in the wiki still?
<cpaelzer> smoser: I'll give you an entry on cloud-init ok?
<smoser> for release notes ?
<smoser> sure.
 * dpb1 adds a topic to go over release notes at rally
<cpaelzer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseNotes
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseNotes
<ahasenack> thanks
<cpaelzer> #action smoser to add a cloud init (and if there is something curtin) release notes entry for artful
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser to add a cloud init (and if there is something curtin) release notes entry for artful
<cpaelzer> anything else that is current
<cpaelzer> smoser: I think your networking mission is one
<cpaelzer> smoser: do you have the bug no on that?
<smoser> networking mission?
<cpaelzer> all the pkg's still needing to adapt to the changes
<smoser>  * bug 1718227: replacement of ifupdown with netplan needs integration for /etc/network/if{up,down}.d scripts
<smoser>  * bug 1713803: replacement of resolvconf with systemd needs integration
<smoser>  * bug 1717983: replacement of isc-dhcp-client with with systemd-networkd for dhclient needs integration
<ubottu> bug 1718227 in wpa (Ubuntu) "replacement of ifupdown with netplan needs integration for /etc/network/if{up,down}.d scripts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718227
<ubottu> bug 1713803 in whereami (Ubuntu) "replacement of resolvconf with systemd needs integration" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713803
<ubottu> bug 1717983 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "replacement of isc-dhcp-client with with systemd-networkd for dhclient needs integration" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1717983
<cpaelzer> yes, thanks
<cpaelzer> I think that is worth to mention in the artful-development section
<cpaelzer> anything else for artful?
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<cpaelzer> ddstreet today
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ddstreet> cpaelzer only item from me is again bug 1657256
<ubottu> bug 1657256 in percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6 (Ubuntu) "Percona crashes when doing a a 'larger' update" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1657256
<cpaelzer> and actually missing in the notes the growing (since not all can be SRUed so far back) trusty:
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> ok ddstreet; where is the action on this issue atm?
<cpaelzer> are you blocked and waiting on whom?
<ddstreet> that bug is still waiting for rbasak to review
<cpaelzer> or are you reworking something
<cpaelzer> rbasak: you are kind of already away right?
<ddstreet> or, i think ryan beisner was going to review
<rbasak> Kind of. I've been on and off the road for a while :-/
<cpaelzer> ok expecting ryan to do so, please let us know if this gets stuck ddstreet - ok ?
<ddstreet> yep i will ping him again today to check
<ddstreet> nothing else from me
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<cpaelzer> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<cpaelzer> dpb1: I know powersj is unavailable do you have something to share on this?
<cpaelzer> if not we are good to go on for today
<dpb1> yes
<dpb1> Josh has landed KVM as a backend for cloud-init integration tests
<cpaelzer> nice
<dpb1> (to go along with LXD)
<dpb1> next on the target will be an actual cloud provider
<dpb1> I think that is it
<cpaelzer> ok, thanks
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Not sure how many time I said there would be a 4.13 kernel in artful soon... though if we want to be in the beta it now really should be soon. To note that next week the kernel team is sprinting so I will likely miss this meeting next week. Are there questions?
<cpaelzer> most of the server Team is sprinting as well on the same place and drag you into this meeting smb :-)
<cpaelzer> Are there known issues on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/4.13.0-11.12 or just the usual wait to verify everything?
<cpaelzer> smb: ^^ ?
<dpb1> #link https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/4.13.0-11.12
<smb> cpaelzer, half normal as there was plumblers last week and other things going on
<cpaelzer> fair enough
<cpaelzer> ok going on
<cpaelzer> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<cpaelzer> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<cpaelzer> somebody was so kind to add OVS
<cpaelzer> #link https://mail.openvswitch.org/pipermail/ovs-announce/2017-September/000241.html
<cpaelzer> #info The Open vSwitch project, a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project, will host its fourth annual conference focused on Open vSwitch and OVN on November 16 and 17, 2017, at Club Auto Sport in San Jose, California.
<cpaelzer> #info Please submit proposals to to the following URL by September 29: https://goo.gl/forms/erjZIQICXVjfUh863
<cpaelzer> anyone planning to go to this or others worth to mention?
<cpaelzer> ok,t hat is a no
<ahasenack> I added that event
<ahasenack> but, no plans
<cpaelzer> thanks
<ahasenack> just thought it could be useful
<cpaelzer> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<cpaelzer> We are sprinting next week, so colaboration will be great but latency on reports might be higher than usual
<cpaelzer> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<cpaelzer> anything we missed to talk about?
<cpaelzer> ok, thanks you all
<ahasenack> who's next? :)
<cpaelzer> closing with the next meeting annoucement
<cpaelzer> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<cpaelzer> #info Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-09-26 at 1600 UTC, chair will be rharper_sprinting
<cpaelzer> rharper ^^
<rharper> ack
<rharper> cpaelzer: I suppose we still plan to have it during sprint?
<cpaelzer> yes
<rharper> ok
<dpb1> yes
<rharper> works for me
<cpaelzer> cu all then
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 19 16:23:10 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-09-19-16.01.moin.txt
<ahasenack> thx
<dpb1> thx cp<tab>
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-09-21
<Odd_Bloke> o/
<rbalint> o/
<cyphermox> o/
 * slangasek waves
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 21 15:02:41 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther)
<slangasek> tribaal Odd_Bloke sil2100 xnox slangasek rbalint cyphermox tdaitx philroche fginther doko bdmurray mwhudson infinity rcj
<Tribaal> short status for me this time
<Tribaal> * Investigate memory usage in kubernetes images for a particular provider.
<Tribaal> (done)
<Tribaal> (so much work for such a simple status line)
<Tribaal> Odd_Bloke:
<Odd_Bloke> * Continued work on GCE testing improvements
<Odd_Bloke> * (HIGHLIGHT) On-site visit with Microsoft, discussing ways to continue delivering an excellent Ubuntu experience on Azure and across their other platforms
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> sil2100:
<sil2100> - Family meetings on Wednesday
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU releases
<sil2100> - Review of the new kernel SRU cycle
<sil2100> - Regular SRU duties
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Sync up on the work so far and on the current design with Gary
<sil2100>   * Review of some of the work so far
<sil2100>   * Work on ripping out common builder parts for ease of testing
<sil2100> - Coordinating and building final plano images
<sil2100> - Disabling ubuntu-gnome artful+ from nusakan
<sil2100> - Preparing and releasing walinuxagent 2.2.17
<sil2100> - Some discussion regarding uvp-monitor NEWing
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> xnox:
<sil2100> xnox: ?
<Odd_Bloke> xnox is out, I believe.
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> I'm still writing; skip me please
<slangasek> rbalint:
<rbalint> * +1-maint: LP: #1717016, then dropping it later: LP: #1718521
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1717016 in libgd2 (Debian) "FTBFS in Artful on i386" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1717016
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1718521 in libgd2 (Ubuntu) "Sync libgd2 2.2.5-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718521
<rbalint> * Debian uploads: meld 1.8.0-1
<rbalint> * fixed cloud-init regression: LP: #1717477
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1717477 in cloud-init "cloud-init generates ordering cycle via After=cloud-init in systemd-fsck" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1717477
<rbalint> * translated subiquity to Hungarian
<rbalint> * u-u:  - (highlight) major speedup (> 10 times), minor fixes, release 0.97 to Debian
<rbalint>   - asking for merge to Ubuntu LP: #1718419 (please sponsor!)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1718419 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) " Please merge unattended-upgrades 0.97 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718419
<slangasek> rbalint: complete translation? :)
<rbalint>   - other queued fixes: https://github.com/rbalint/unattended-upgrades/commits/master-next-wip
<rbalint> slangasek: sure :-)
<rbalint> https://translations.launchpad.net/subiquity/trunk/+pots/subiquity
<rbalint> (done)
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> wee
<cyphermox> artful:
<cyphermox> - console-setup fix for Ctrl-C feedback in wayland (bug LP: #1710637)
<cyphermox> - netplan 0.28 fixes for lxc (AcceptRA) (bug LP: #1655440, bug LP: #1717404)
<cyphermox> - netplan 0.29 to unbreak autopkgtests now that netplan is on by default
<cyphermox> - shim testing for v13
<cyphermox> - debugging /run mount life-cycle (base-installer)
<cyphermox> - merging slideshow updates for ubuntu, ubuntukylin, kubuntu
<cyphermox> SRUs:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1710637 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "Input falls through to gdm3 and terminates the session on Ctrl+C after udevadm trigger is executed under wayland" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1710637
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1655440 in nplan (Ubuntu Xenial) ""unconfigured" NIC can still get IPv6 addresses via RA" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1655440
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1717404 in nplan (Ubuntu) "IPv6 support regresses with nplan transition" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1717404
<cyphermox> - coaching balloons on the git-ubuntu process, for a juju-core SRU
<cyphermox> - finishing up SRUs for isc-dhcp, nplan
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek>  * moved updates through to xenial-updates for the first Azure image using linux-azure
<slangasek>  * +1 maintenance, getting artful-proposed driven down for release
<slangasek>  * sorted out some docker.io autopkgtest failures resulting from the networkd-resolved landing
<slangasek>  * attempted to debug the problems with arm autopkgtest infrastructure having unusually frequent network errors (no results to report yet)
<slangasek>  * review image minimization branches for landing
<slangasek>  * partial translation of subiquity to Catalan
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> philroche:
<philroche> - Short week due to vacation last week (high*light)
<philroche> - Cloud image build system vanguard
<cyphermox> oh, I guess I should translate subiquity to french
<philroche> - New cloud image build system automated promotion development
<philroche> - Partner meetings
<philroche> (done)
<slangasek> fginther:
<fginther> * On-site visit with Microsoft
<fginther> * Assisted with testing of walinuxagent 2.2.17
<fginther> * Updated the Ubuntu WSL application in the Windows store
<fginther> * Continued library development to facilitate automated publication
<fginther> (done)
<doko> - more getting-rid-off-maven syncs and merges
<doko> - getting python2 off the desktop images \o/
<doko> - some defaults updates
<doko> - usual proposed and autopkg test fixing, debian bug filings
<doko> - binutils 2.19.1, more toolchain updates
<doko> - installed 17.10 and trying to get used to gnome3 :-/
<doko> - python 3.6.3rc1 and 3.7alpha1
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> SRU team rotation
<bdmurray> uploaded X and Z SRUs for LP: #1682934
<bdmurray> X, Z SRU verification of python3.5 path issue (LP: #1682934)
<bdmurray> SRU verification of LP: #1676547 for zesty
<bdmurray> SRU releases of neutron, neutron-lbaas-dashboard due to pings
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1682934 in python2.7 (Ubuntu Zesty) "python3 in /usr/local/bin can cause python3 packages to fail to install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1682934
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1676547 in network-manager (Ubuntu Zesty) "No network connectivity after upgrade from 16.04 to 16.10" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1676547
<bdmurray> SRU review of systemd (follow-up from Thursday)
<bdmurray> sponsored nagios-nrpe upload for balint (LP: #1715167)
<bdmurray> reported update-manager test failure bug (LP: #1717360)
<bdmurray> research into reasons /boot gets full and RemoveOldKernels wiki page
<bdmurray> uploaded artful fix for LP: #1515513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1715167 in nagios-nrpe (Ubuntu) "FTBFS in Artful" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1715167
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1717360 in update-manager (Ubuntu Zesty) "test_update_origin.py test failure" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1717360
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1515513 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "/boot/initrd.img-*.old-dkms files left behind" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1515513
<bdmurray> bug triage of ubiquity not clearing /boot (LP: #1586303)
<bdmurray> tested unattended-upgrades bug LP: #1675079
<bdmurray> reported u-r-u bug regarding /var free space (LP: #1718497)
<bdmurray> tested, uploaded Artful fix for LP: #1477455
<bdmurray> uploaded X and Z fixes for LP: #1477455, LP: #1717360
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1586303 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "clear_partitions doesn't clear /boot" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1586303
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1675079 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "16.04 LTS Partition /boot fills up with Kernel images, gets underwear in a twist" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1675079
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1718497 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "checkFreeSpace says it checks /var but may not really" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718497
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1477455 in update-manager (Ubuntu Zesty) "Incorrect instructions leave automatic updates blocked when /boot is full" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477455
<bdmurray> testing of unattended-upgrades bug LP: #1624644
<bdmurray> irc discussion with manjo re apport-cli and updating a bug (LP: #1208508)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1624644 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Artful) "By default settings unattended-upgrade is unable to automatically remove packages that become unused in conjunction with updating by other software." [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1624644
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208508 in Apport "unable to update an bug with an existing .crash file" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208508
<bdmurray> tested the fix for LP: #1679435 still works in Artful
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1679435 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Artful) "GNOME Software fails to install .deb packages that trigger debconf prompts" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679435
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> sponsored fix for LP: #1718055
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1718055 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu Trusty) "update-initramfs fails for MODULES=dep when root is on LVM wich uses nvme device" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718055
<bdmurray> infinity: ?
<slangasek> seems not
<slangasek> rcj:
<rcj> * cloud images are working again
<rcj> * cloud partner on-site meeting
<rcj> * helped with linux-azure image publication
<rcj> â
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<rbalint> could someone please sponsor my stuff? :-)
<slangasek> rbalint: links?
<rbalint> LP: #1718419
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1718419 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) " Please merge unattended-upgrades 0.97 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718419
<slangasek> ah, the difficult one ;)
<rbalint> i have an easy one, too :-) LP: #1718521
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1718521 in libgd2 (Ubuntu) "Sync libgd2 2.2.5-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718521
<slangasek> rbalint: I'll queue unattended-upgrades to look at today.  was this the one that I already looked at an FFe bug on?
<slangasek> someone else want to look at libgd2?
<rbalint> this is the next one
<cyphermox> sure.
<rbalint> slangasek: this is the one solving the issues you raised :-)
<slangasek> ah ok
<slangasek> rbalint: but we discussed that in a bug log somewhere, right?  I can't find that now
<slangasek> I hope you don't expect me to /remember/ the issues I raised :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<rbalint> slangasek: LP: #1714019
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1714019 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "Please merge unattended-upgrades 0.96 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1714019
<slangasek> rbalint: thanks
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<slangasek> anything new here?
<bdmurray> nope
<bdmurray> One on tracking though
<slangasek> was LP: #1715490 already discussed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1715490 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "pretty version of plymouth won't accept passphrase" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1715490
<bdmurray> yes, I think you were out that day
<slangasek> ok
<bdmurray> cyphermox was interested in looking at it
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<cyphermox> I looked, need to look more.
<bdmurray> bug 1718421 is new
<ubottu> bug 1718421 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Artful) "VLAN config not working in artful d-i" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718421
<slangasek> cyphermox: have you checked for reproducibility of that with qxl driver?  because that then aligns with desktop team's needs
<cyphermox> that's what I was getting to do, but virt-manager tends to crash my gnome-shell, and running qemu directly doesn't grab arrow keys.
<cyphermox> in other words, all hardware ..., all software..., I let you fill in the blanks.
<slangasek> bdmurray: looks like one we should take into the queue, certainly; might end up waiting for xnox to look at
<slangasek> cyphermox: ah, enjoy
<bdmurray> slangasek: which one? the d-i or plymouth one
<cyphermox> reinstall was partly to make sure that wasn't my system being broken
<slangasek> bdmurray: the d-i one
<slangasek> bdmurray: I've trelloed it
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> wouldn't that vlan part be netplan-related?
<slangasek> maybe?
<slangasek> it's in trello now, your squad can claim it :)
<cyphermox> there's the code to generate the "right config", but it's d-i..
<cyphermox> anyone else than me have local setup to test vlans?
<slangasek> you can test on s390x?
<slangasek> anywho
<slangasek> anything else on bugs?
<bdmurray> I don't think so.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<sil2100> I'd like to poke you slangasek about uvp-monitor copyright situation (it's a NEW package)
<slangasek> sil2100: me personally?
<sil2100> Since Andy did a review but we wanted to consult with you regarding the copyright being crazy in the source
<slangasek> ok
<sil2100> But we can take that off the meeting
<slangasek> sounds good
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 21 15:33:21 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-09-21-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-09-19
<elacheche> Hello andyrock
<andyrock> hey hey
<Trevinho> hi andyrock
<elacheche> Let's wait and see if other Membership bord members will join us, otherwise we'll vote via the ML
<andyrock> elacheche: ok
<mIk3_08> Hello everyone.
<elacheche> mIk3_08: Hey! Let's wait and see if other Membership bord members will join us, otherwise we'll vote via the ML
<mIk3_08> Thanks a lot elacheche.
<elacheche> mIk3_08 & andyrock If in the next 15min one else show up I all start a 2 threads to evaluate your applications via the ML.. This is a tricky time slot for some members, sorry about that..
<andyrock> elacheche: no problem at all
<elacheche> nzoueidi_: You're ok with this? We used to do this before.. Didn't needed to for a long time.. But we can do that today again :)
<nzoueidi_> yeah, we could do this via ML.
<nzoueidi_> Hey folks o/
<mIk3_08> copy elacheche.
<mIk3_08> no problem about that elacheche.
<elacheche> OK, so, I'll start the thread in a moment, we'll get back to you mIk3_08 and andyrock via mail in case we need to ask some questions.. Sorry that we couldn't gather the quorum today..
<mIk3_08> okay elacheche.
<mIk3_08> Thanks again
