#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-20
<tseng> maybe i should update my desktop to breezy
<tseng> oh
<Nafallo> nothing much, chatting +webdev.
<tseng> mythtv is broken
<Nafallo> breezy rocks!
<tseng> well
<tseng> mythtv rocks more
<Nafallo> 1-day bugs and stuff :-P
<dooglus> how does a package get changed from a debian package to a ubuntu package of the same name?
<Burgundavia> dooglus, most of the packages are simly rebuild automatically
<Burgundavia> rebuilt even
<Burgundavia> those that are -#ubuntu# have been changed by someone with ubuntu
<dooglus> Burgundavia: for example, http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/libc/libcurses-perl/libcurses-perl_1.12-1_i386.deb is a hundred kb of working binaries
<Burgundavia> ok
<dooglus> whereas http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/libc/libcurses-perl/libcurses-perl_1.12-1_i386.deb is 7 kb of nothing much
<dooglus> wouldn't it be better to just copy the file?  less chance of messing it up that way
<Burgundavia> ubuntu takes the debian source and rebuilds it in an Ubuntu environment
<Burgundavia> as we have some different things, like python
<dooglus> Burgundavia: if the rebuild process is automatic, is it visible?  I mean, can I take a look at it and see why it is failing?
<Burgundavia> here is build logs for that deb
<Burgundavia> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libc/libcurses-perl/
<dooglus> thanks
<dooglus> Burgundavia: do you know what command that log is the output from?
<dooglus> Burgundavia: I just tried to reproduce the problem, but it builds and packages fine locally
<dooglus> (using "apt-get source -b libcurses-perl")
<Burgundavia> no idea
<dooglus> hmmm, ok.
<dooglus> thanks for the log url anyway.
<pepsi> hrm
<pepsi> whats this channel for?
<ajmitch> ubuntu, masters of the universe, we deal with all the packages in the universe component of ubuntu
<tseng> what are topics for? :P
<pepsi> the topic lacks a description of what the channel is
<pepsi> masters of the universe isnt the most obvious :P
* Burgundavia curses legal crap
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Mez] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks | Please dont complain about X for the next 2 weeks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Mez] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks | Please dont complain about X for the next 2 weeks
<Unfrgiven> morning all
<crimsun> it'd make more sense to place http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU ahead of http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar :P
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Mez] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks | Please dont complain about X for the next 2 weeks
<Mez> :P
<Mez> change it yourslef you lazy bugger
<Mez> o crimsun, I hear you'll be signing amaranth's key
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:tseng] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks | Please dont complain about X for the next 2 weeks || Dont complain period
<tseng> that should cover it.
<pepsi> thats a much better topic
<Mez> lol
<tseng> not that people actually read topics
<doko> Please don't complain about anything for the next 8 weeks
<tseng> doko: yep.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Mez] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks | Please dont complain about X for the next 2 weeks || If you wish to complain about anything, complain in #flood
<doko> tseng, by the way, may I complain about the mono2 bit?
<Mez> thats better tseng
* doko hides
<Mez> doko - yes, in #flood
<tseng> doko:  i started it
<doko> Mez: hmm, I think I like the pointer to the bug reporting system better ...
<tseng> doko: it broke the 1.0 stuff in the process
<doko> tseng: hmm, not nice
<tseng> doko: so its not as easy as it initially looked
<tseng> re splitting up 1.0 vs 2.0
<doko> tseng: I'm doing Java in the meantime ...
<Mez> o_O
<Mez> hey seth
<seth_k> ?
<janm> hi
<ivoks> hi
<Mez> hey ivoks :D
<Mez> still wiating for that apology :D
<Mez> :P
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> ah, sorry
<ivoks> if that makes you smile ;)
<Mez> lol
<Mez> am just kidding around with ya :d
<Mez> anyways L:D I did some wubbing to k3b and got it working for breezy
<Mez> w00t
<dooglus> Mez: you saw this, I take it?  https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11535
<seth_k> it's 6AM for mez, he's been asleep less than 2 hours. he'll notice it eventually though
<dooglus> sure.
<\sh> morning
<Unfrgiven> \sh: hey dude
<\sh> Hey Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> \sh: how goes it?
<\sh> Unfrgiven: just came to my office and started to work :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ah right... its a public holiday here today =)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: whats the state of the transition? how much is done now? anything needing to be done ugrently?
<\sh> Unfrgiven: i will give libflash during this day a shot and I saw some fixes from ivoks..
<\sh> guys...if you want fun in the office: http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/31-Thx-Aseigo-Long-time-ago,-there-was-a-Balmer,-a-crazy-one,-too..html
<DanielN> \sh: couldn't look it here at office.. fsucking proxy :/
<ivoks> hi
<xerox> Hi!
<xerox> Do you know where could I get the lastest gaim=
<xerox> '?'
<xerox> I think I found it, but I can't find a way to add it to sources.list.  It's there: http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gaim/
<DanielN> c++ heroes here?
<ivoks> xerox: ?
<xerox> ivoks, which source I have to add to get that repository?
<xerox> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main ?
<ivoks> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary-security main
<xerox> I think I've messed up my sources.list.
<xerox> What is "restricted" ?
<ivoks> repository of non-free packages
<xerox> ivoks, can you point me to an example _safe_ sources.list for hoary?
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> safe sources.list would be those two lines you have 4-5 lines ago :)
<xerox> :(
<ivoks> problems?
<xerox> apt doesn't let me install anything
<ivoks> maybe you should ask in #ubuntu, not here
<xerox> Thanks much for the help ivoks!
<DanielN> xerox: try sudo and ten apt command
<xerox> DanielN I know I should do it as root :)
<xerox> But that seem a problem in the gaim package...
<xerox> gaim: Depends: gaim-data (= 1:1.1.4-1ubuntu4.2) but 1:1.3.1-1ubuntu1 is to be installed
<xerox> E: Broken packages
<ivoks> you were using backports
<xerox> nope
<xerox> deb http://it.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main universe multiverse restricted
<xerox> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary-security main universe multiverse restricted
<ivoks> apt-get update?
<xerox> ivoks, I've done it many many times in the last 2 minutes
<ivoks> apt-cache show gaim-data | grep Version
<xerox> Version: 1:1.3.1-1ubuntu1
<xerox> Version: 1:1.1.4-1ubuntu4.2
<xerox> Version: 1:1.1.4-1ubuntu4
<xerox> Does that mean I have 3 gaim-data installed ? O_o
<DanielN> yep
<xerox> ugh.
<ivoks> no
<xerox> :)
<ivoks> that means you have three sources for it
<xerox> Better.
<DanielN> not really
<ivoks> sudo apt-get install gaim-data
<DanielN> ;)
<ivoks> you see..
<xerox> gaim-data is already the newest version.
<ivoks> that one 1:1.3.1-1ubuntu1 isn't from hoary
<ivoks> you used backports
<ivoks> period
<xerox> $ apt-cache policy gaim-data | grep Installed
<xerox>   Installed: 1:1.3.1-1ubuntu1
<ivoks> you have to remove gaim-data, and then install it again
<xerox> ??
<xerox> But it0s here: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gaim/
<ivoks> you installed version that is NOT in ubuntu
<ivoks> xerox: that's gaim for breezy
<ivoks> not hoary
<xerox> oh.
<ivoks> remove it
<xerox> I didn't use backports you see :( I'm not lying!
<ivoks> yeah, you did something even worse :)
<xerox> Removed.
<xerox> Sorry :(
<ivoks> now install gaim
<xerox> apt-cache policy {gaim,gaim-data}  still show 1.3.1
<ivoks> from where
<xerox> I deleted the .debs and it installs 1.1.4
<xerox> OK, now it works, but gaim is old :)
<xerox> #ubuntu topic says "DO NOT USE BREEZY YET", so I suppose there is no way to get an update gaim.  Right?
<ivoks> sure there is
<ivoks> download source and compile it
<xerox> Right.
<xerox> ...but I would be irrespectful to your hard job in packaging ;)
<ivoks> doko: openscenegraph and opencv should build fine now... :)
<DanielN> \sh: wouldn't you say something to me?? :)
<Mez> dooglus: er no i didnt notice, but - meh - it still doesnt work with that manul libdepnds changed, but - when it was build it auto lib-depends n tha
<DanielN> has someone here a good document, to find out the main build errors with gcc4 ?
<DanielN> or the main changes in building
<\sh> back
<\sh> DanielN: there is a document
<\sh> DanielN: http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.0/changes.html and http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-3.4/changes.html#cplusplus
<DanielN> \sh: yep, that hasn't aided (or however) me... :/
<DanielN> error: explicit qualification in declaration
<DanielN> that's stated (i googled already, without much helpful information)
<\sh> DanielN: did u check the source line? paste the sourceline into jabber please :) or give me a build log
<Riddell> what's the current recommendation on 0.6beta1 style version numbers?
<DanielN> \sh:
<DanielN> inline std::string SigCPerl::get_string(SV *val) throw()
<\sh> remove the inline
<\sh> (try it at least) ;)
<DanielN> ;)
<\sh> i had a similar issue with it
<\sh> hot shot ... i don't know if this is it
<DanielN> i hpe not, because there ar thousands of inline's :((
<DanielN> \sh: err, but i can't remove inline.. i must replace ist with another function (which one? pah.. no idea :) )
<\sh> DanielN: which source?
<DanielN> hmm?
<DanielN> source package?
<DanielN> sigcperl (breezy of course)
<\sh> DanielN: which file and line?
<DanielN> argh
<DanielN> sorry, i'm a bit scratched-off :)
<DanielN> convert.h line 71
<bddebian> Howdy
<\sh> ah
<\sh> inline std::string SigCPerl::get_string(SV *val) throw()
<\sh> try this:
<\sh> inline std::string get_string(SV *val) throw()
<\sh> he was repeating the namespace identifieer
<DanielN> ok
<DanielN> i'll try
<DanielN> \sh: no more errors about line 71!
<DanielN> but several others
<DanielN> :)
<DanielN> WOOOHO :))
<DanielN> it builds fine now, \sh thanks alot
<DanielN> erm.. but i don't have too apply a patch now? simply provide the debdiff between old and new, right?
<\sh> DanielN: u have to check...namespace ... { [...] } if the namespace is not closed, g++4 will raise errors for using namespace identifiers inside the function declaration
<DanielN> \sh: ok, what about the above question (about the patch) ?
<\sh> DanielN: no..
<\sh> DanielN: do this: mkdir patchwork ; cd patchwork ; tar -xvzf sigcperl_0.2.0.orig.tar.gz ; mv sigcperl-0.2.0.orig sigcperl-0.2.0.orig.patched ; tar -xvzf sigcperl_0.2.0.orig.tar.gz
<\sh> cd sigcperl-0.2.0.orig.patched
<\sh> patch your source
<\sh> cd ..
<\sh> diff -ur sigcperl-0.2.0.orig sigcperl-0.2.0.orig.patched > 01_gcc4.patch
<\sh> cd ..
<\sh> cd sigcperl-0.2.0
<\sh> cd debian
<\sh> mkdir patches
<\sh> cp ../../patchwork/01_gcc4.patch patches/
<\sh> vi rules and add some patch targets
<\sh> and also some unpatch targets :)
<\sh> then u have a clean debianized source and apply the patches during buildtime
<DanielN> yeah, thanks!
<DanielN> Cxx trans is good for learning much i think
<\sh> :)
<\sh> ok..going home now
<ivoks> DanielN: ping
<DanielN> ivoks: pong
<DanielN> all: if i use dpatch, it must be a build-depend, right?
<ivoks> DanielN: is cppopt finished?
<ivoks> i never used dpatch :)
<DanielN> well, i think (for me it's ok)
<ivoks> i'm pretty sure hdf5 is FTBS :)
<ivoks> this is very dificult package...
<ivoks> put a comment there: waiting for new debian release
<ivoks> cause, debian will bring new release that will be buildable on amd64 with g++4
<DanielN> ivoks: FTBS ?
<ivoks> failed to build source
<DanielN> ah
<ivoks> i worked on that one
<ivoks> very difficult
<DanielN> argh
<DanielN> i'll check it then
<DanielN> and add a comment
<ivoks> put comment - waiting for new debian release
<DanielN> yep
<ivoks> i talked with debian maintainer of that package
<ivoks> he said he's working on new version
<DanielN> ivoks: remember me tonight again, when i'm at home
<DanielN> :)
<ivoks> who knows will I be here
<DanielN> ivoks: i'm sure you'll ;)
<DanielN> so, time to go.. fscking patch has time until tomorrow :))
<DanielN> see ya later on
<bradb> hey uber hackers
<bradb> malone usability question: what do you guys think about the current ordering of comments?
<Amaranth> on a 26k connection, give me a minute to load it up
<Amaranth> bradb: got an example of a bug with comments? :)
<bradb> Amaranth: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/889
<Amaranth> you do know malone has horizontal scrollbars at 800x600, right?
<Lathiat> it looks ugly anyway
<Lathiat> soassumedly
<Lathiat> theyll do something about that
<Amaranth> hehe
<ivoks> hi
<Amaranth> get sgarrity to work on it for you :D
<Amaranth> bradb: you've seen how the forums work, right?
<Amaranth> you click the little reply button on a post to reply to it?
<bradb> Amaranth: when, let's take this one step at a time here...
<bradb> Amaranth: first, what do you guys think of the ordering of comments on the bug page?
<Amaranth> i'm just talking about comments here
<Amaranth> you have them ordered by date with the latest comment first?
<bradb> Amaranth: yes
<Amaranth> should be the other way around if you expect people to actually read them
<bradb> i agree ;)
<bradb> just wanted to make sure we're on the same page before i talk to sabdfl about it
<bradb> Amaranth: yes, i'm aware of the horiz scrolling at 800x600. just like bugzilla, right?
<Amaranth> let me check bugzilla
<bradb> e.g. https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1291
<Amaranth> i'll get back to you in a year when it finishes loading :)
<bddebian> heh
<Lathiat> haha
<Amaranth> i think it stalled
<bradb> Amaranth: 26k sounds like cruel and unusual punishment
<Lathiat> cus you hit refresh and it only took a month?
<Amaranth> so far though i only have a very small horiz scrollbar
<Amaranth> bradb: it is
<Amaranth> bradb: i'm stuck with this for a week
<Amaranth> ok, the horizontal scrollbar with bugzilla is close to the size of the one in malone
<Amaranth> but things aren't as squished as they are in malone :)
<bradb> Amaranth: in your ideal world, how would the Malone bug page be improved to suit your taste?
<Lathiat> with a dbi
<Amaranth> bradb: I've been meaning to make a mockup of that.
<bradb> Amaranth: a mockup? wow, that'd be some hardcore user feedback. ;) by all means. i'd love to see it.
<Amaranth> bradb: basically it'd just look like bugzilla though :)
<bradb> Amaranth: IOW, you don't think bugzilla's bug page can be improved?
<Amaranth> i think it can be, but not much
<bradb> ok
<bradb> Amaranth: what about for people who aren't skilled hackers? would your grandma be able to use the bugzilla bug page, for example?
<Amaranth> bradb: she couldn't use malone either :)
<Amaranth> but that's not fair, she can't even use firefox
<bradb> Amaranth: i agree that she couldn't use Malone either. i'd probably rather be paid by the hour to show her how to use the bugzilla bug page though. ;)
<bradb> Amaranth: though, clearly, you like the bugzilla bug page, and a lot of skilled users like you do too. in Malone, i think we can do even better.
<Amaranth> so basically we need something that lets hackers get things done quickly (like bugzilla now) but is still usable for users
<bradb> that's the approach we're taking, yeah. i just landed a big patch (not yet rolled out into production), to hopefully reduce the mental burden on malone users trying to edit the status/priority/severity/etc. of a bug reported somewhere.
<bradb> Amaranth: btw, if you want to send a mockup my way: brad.bollenbach@ubuntu.com.
<Amaranth> it'll probably be next week when i get back home
<bradb> Amaranth: (or any other malone feedback, for that matter)
<mitsuhiko> hi
<bddebian> Hello mitsuhiko
<ivoks> lol
* ivoks did his first animation rendering in bender
<ivoks> bender totally rocks!
<ivoks> lol, i watch too much futurama :) it's bledner
<DanielN> ivoks: i can seriously say that hdf5 builds (with warnings) .. but well, on x86
<dooglus> Mez: I notice that k3b installs fine now in breezy.
<ivoks> DanielN: yes, it builds on x86
<ivoks> amd is real fun :)
<DanielN> yeah that's wath i thought ;)
<herve> hi there!
<bddebian> Heya herve
<DanielN> hello herve :)
<herve> how's life in motuland?
<DanielN> nais
<herve> I take it for positive attitude ;-)
<DanielN> :)
<bddebian> nais?
<herve> nothing...
<herve> ?
<DanielN> wooho :) my first self written patch works :))
<herve> tell us what "nais" means first :-)
<DanielN> nais == nice
<bddebian> ahh
* herve feels disappointed
<herve> I expected a "nice" acronym :-)
<DanielN> mhm
<DanielN> lett me think about that :)
<DanielN> sounds like a nice task
<bddebian> Not a .. ..
<bddebian> Not An Issue Shithead
<bddebian> nope
<herve> not any incident so far?
<bddebian> Nice
<bddebian> DanielN: Congrats btw
<herve> hmm... bad english, forget about it
<bddebian> Not Any Issues So far
<DanielN> to find one
<DanielN> bddebian: cxx trans?
<Amaranth> nice == Not an Interesting Conversation ..
<Amaranth> can't think of a good E
<DanielN> Amaranth: argh
<DanielN> i thought about _recursive_ acronyms
<Amaranth> argh == Assholes Rarely Generate Help
<Amaranth> ;)
<bddebian> Amaranth: :-)
<DanielN> :)
<DanielN> :))
<DanielN> hm .. doesn't debdiff mark added directories in debian/ ? (i.e patches/)
<DanielN> argh .. interdiff is the magical word :)
<tseng> Nafallo: where you working with me on beagle/amd64?
<tseng> were*
<ivoks> hm... nokia, nokia, nokia
<herve> ??
<ivoks> i quote: "Open source software is an ideal basis for development since it enables Nokia to leverage and contribute to speedy software innovation and development."
<ivoks> they are building new browser for series60
<ivoks> based on KHTML
<herve> no, webcore
<ivoks> acctually, on apples webocre
<ivoks> right :)
<ivoks> and in the same time, they fight aggainst that same opensource in europe
<DanielN>  there are smartphones from motorola around, running linux
<DanielN> :)
<DanielN> ah herve: as you asked for motu news: yeah, there are! when is signed off by 2 motu's, so you have just to change your entry in the wiki, and it's ready :)
<herve> DanielN: remind me in 15 minutes
<ivoks> i didn't sign anything :)
<DanielN> you marked it as ok :)
<DanielN> different meanings
<DanielN> it think ;)
* DanielN is away for smoking one
<herve> tssssss
<ivoks> you are too young to smoke
<herve> :-)
<\sh> re
<\sh> i wanted to say that too :)
<herve> people are either too young or too old to smoke
<\sh> reviewing time first
<\sh> or too dead to smoke ;)
<ivoks> man, cigaretts really kill
<herve> 50 million people a year, I heard
<ivoks> i smoke one sometimes, but that's like 20 in 2 weeks :)
* \sh goes to smoke 
<\sh> ;)
<herve> ttt
<ivoks> you know, there is bigger chance you will die of cigaret, than from cancer?
<herve> hmm
<\sh> I know there is a bigger change to die from a heart attack
<ivoks> make that tumor, not cancer
<herve> you don't catch a cancer by smoking?
<ivoks> herve: you do, but not all cancers kill
<ivoks> those from someking do, but others don't
<\sh> but lungcancer yes
<ivoks> even AIDS doesn't kill like that
<ivoks> but those luckys really taste good :)
<herve> no sorry, it just stinks
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ;...(
<ivoks> i still can't upload
<herve> I'll upload after my phone call
<ivoks> btw, NM is great tool
<ivoks> have to go now...
<herve> NM?
<ivoks> network manager
<ivoks> i have one buggy version
<ivoks> but does the job very good
<ivoks> well... bye
<DanielN> herve: time to remind you ^^
<herve> still on the phone
<\sh> grmpf..answered my work cell....have to go..laters dudes
<herve> re
<bddebian> wb her
<bddebian> (*&&^%*&%%
<DanielN> wb
<bddebian> err wb herve
<mitsuhiko> wb
<mitsuhiko> hi
<mitsuhiko> important question
<mitsuhiko> maybe you know the linux day 2005 somewhere in Germany (no idea where...)
<mitsuhiko> does ubuntu has something like a contact person where users can talk to?
<herve> trulux, ping
<mitsuhiko> nobody any ideas?
<herve> ask on the devel list?
<mitsuhiko> herve: i thought someone has any ideas
<herve> or maybe there exists a better list
<mitsuhiko> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LinuxTag <== very empty
<herve> check with the person who created/last modified the page
<mitsuhiko> Boris Karnikowski from the Addison Wesley publishing house asked if there are any ubuntulinux members
<DanielN> could someone tell me, what is to do if i applied a source-code patch to a transition lib ?
<mitsuhiko> Because this publishing house has there a ubuntu book presentation
<DanielN> mitushiko: why do you ask that just in MOTU
<DanielN> ?
<mitsuhiko> because I thought someone knows something about it
<mitsuhiko> or because someone has compassion with me
<TMM> hello
<jbailey> TMM: =)
<TMM> I salute you. ow MOFO's
<mitsuhiko> good night boys
<TMM> euih
<mitsuhiko> cu
<TMM> MOTU's :P
<jbailey> Anyone around to show a potential MOTU the ropes?
<TMM> I am interested in adding some form of bootsplash stuff to ubuntu, basically
<TMM> for starters anyway :)
<jbailey> TMM: sladen has been the lead on that.
<tritium> TMM, have you looked into the usplash project that's being worked on by sladen?
<bddebian> jbailey: You a potential MOTU??
<TMM> ah, I've heard a lot about this sladen dude now, :)
<TMM> didn't know about usplash
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> Hi there bddebian :)
<jbailey> bddebian: I don't know if I'm considered a motu or not...
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> jbailey is just HMFIC
<TMM> I'd like to join the ranks :)
<jbailey> Her Majesties Finest Ice Cream?
<TMM> or at least, do some good, with or without any form of a title, I just want some help for now ;)
<bddebian> Head Mother Fscker In Charge
<jbailey> *lol*
<jbailey> Certainly that's not me.
<bddebian> :-)
<herve> DanielN, ping
<TMM> YOU are the one fscking my disks? :)
<TMM> hmm, that usplash sounds a lot like the idea I had
<tritium> TMM, one of the documents I recommend starting from is the Debian New Maintainer's Guide.
<TMM> tritium, universe != ubuntu sid repo's right?
<tritium> TMM, the main wiki page, which contains many useful links is here: http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/MOTU
<DanielN> herve: pong
<DanielN> :)
<herve> DanielN, I can't access your archive so I can't review your package
<TMM> euh... debian sid... *sigh*
<tritium> TMM, right.  The best description of the various components is here, I believe: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components/document_view
<DanielN> http://marissa.ath.cx/daniel/archive/breezy/
<DanielN> ??
<DanielN> works for me
<herve> DanielN, I hope so, it's your machine ;-)
<herve> trulux, ping
<trulux> herve: pong
<trulux> herve: though I must go to bed
<herve> quicly
<trulux> herve: tell me
<herve> I was talking about the libre software meeting in dijon with you?
<DanielN> herve: so you couldn't access? or is it not reachable??
<herve> DanielN, timeout
<trulux> herve: yup
<herve> trulux, bad news, I can't go there, I'm still broek
<DanielN> hrmpf .. time to reboot the router :/
<herve> broke
<trulux> herve: I talked about meeting all of us (those who go there) together
<tritium> TMM, is that a good start?  Do you have any more questions?
<TMM> tritium, it looks like it, thanks
<TMM> tritium, I was already reading, sorry for the delay :)
<tritium> TMM, no problem.  :)
<herve> DanielN, tomorrow now :-)
<TMM> does anyone know if there is any actual code for the usplash stuff?
<TMM> sladen? :)
<herve> I hope he does know :-)
<herve> night all
<tritium> TMM, yes, there is a usplash page...let me find it
<TMM> tritium, I'm on a wikipage, but it sounds like a lot of ideas, and very little implementation :)
<sladen> TMM: yeah ;-)
<TMM> well, I wanted to do some form of a framebuffer detect and setup utility anyway, might as well build it, whatever is going to be implemented, that is going to be required anyway
<tritium> TMM, this is the only code I found:  http://www.paul.sladen.org/projects/usplash/download/.  Is that the latest for public consumption, sladen?
<TMM> letting the user figure out weither to use vga= or some arcane video= command is pretty pointless
<TMM> that, and that for instance, the intel cards can't do a linear framebuffer according to VESA 2.0 standards... so you need that specific driver for that
<TMM> or be stuck in 16 colours
<DanielN> herve: i've rebooted my router, check back please :)
<TMM> tritium, looks good
<tritium> TMM, cool
<TMM> still, there's a need to configure the framebuffer correctly :)
<TMM> I wish sladen was here :) but he's been idle for 13 minutes now, so I assume he just left
<sladen> TMM: I'm always here, but they X hundred users who've just been down for an hoour whilst we upgrade their sat-modems are more immediate :-)
<TMM> sladen, ahhhh yes, I can see that :)
<TMM> sladen, I envision, pissed people ;)
<TMM> sladen, I've got some thoughts on fading X too btw :)
<DanielN> time to sleep
<DanielN> see you all
<ruhib> I use http://ubuntujava.yimports.com/
<tritium> Good luck, TMM.  See you around...
<TMM> tritium, thanks :)
<tritium> :)
<Nafallo> tseng: with bugreporting, yes :-).
<tseng> Nafallo: hm right
<tseng> Nafallo: do you still have that gtk-sharp exception
<Nafallo> tseng: last time with blam today. pre-first_daily_update though.
<tseng> um so
<tseng> get the exception again please :)
<tseng> and save it
<Nafallo> tseng: hehe, I'll try :-). I haven't figured out what makes it pop :-P.
* Nafallo tries to refresh blam
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-21
<tseng> <trow> Do I want the amd64-generic or amd64-k8 kernel stuff?
<tseng> Nafallo: ^
<Nafallo> k8 if he runs on k8 :-)
<tseng> whats that mean
<tseng> k8 = opteron?
<Nafallo> tseng: Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD]  K8 NorthBridge
<Nafallo> I could have just said chipsets :-)
<Nafallo> dunno what differs though.
<tseng> is that in lspic or something?
<tseng> pci
<Nafallo> lspci yes :-)
<tseng> where was the spec on moving packages to main?
<Nafallo> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/Mono ?
<tseng> no
<tseng> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
<tseng> beagle knows all
<Mez> yeah dooglus :d that would be cause I fiexed it :d
<tseng> zul: kickban for great justice
<zul> tseng: hehe
<crimsun> if anyone needs a key signed, I'll be in Chicago, IL, this Wednesday (6/15) from 4p - 7p and in Rochester, NY, the following day (6/16)
<tritium> Hey crimsun.  You'll only be 2 hours away.
<crimsun> hey tritium
<crimsun> yep, it's an amtrak layover
<tritium> Ah, I see...
<crimsun> how're things?
<tritium> Moving along.  You?
<crimsun> same, working 40 straight hours so I can take the rest of the week off
<tritium> crimsun, drobbins (of gentoo fame) is in #ubuntu chatting.  He's taken a position with Microsoft.
<crimsun> tritium: ah, cool
<tritium> Wow, that's a marathon
<tritium> crimsun, is your business unit affected by the recent Apple decision?
<crimsun> nope
<tritium> That's good.
<crimsun> well, I suppose I need to qualify that answer
<crimsun> I work for STG (systems & technology group), so yeah, this group as a whole was adversely affected, but my particular first-line group is separate from the microprocessor group
<tritium> Ah, okay.
<crimsun> to put things in scope: the ppc->intel fallout is much less an issue than either bluegene/l or the video game consoles
<|QuaD-> anyone feel like packaging: http://browserbookapp.sourceforge.net/deskbar.html
<tritium> crimsun, ah...
<tritium> Good night :)
<Nafallo> good night!
<lamont> brutefir needs gcc-4.0 love
<lamont> and clanlib needs xorg love
<eruin> anyone here know what's up with mplayer? ;)
<eruin> it smells very uninstallable
<crimsun> it works fine
<crimsun> you need to pass an explicit version to aptitude/apt-get
<crimsun> and you can only use the testing debian-marillat repo if you use hoary
<crimsun> (or if you love apt-pinning)
<eruin> bleh. that explains it
<eruin> I think I'm using unstable
<eruin> cheers ;)
<crimsun> you still need to pass the version
<eruin> which?
<crimsun> look at the full version string from apt-cache policy mplayer-arch
<eruin> 1:1.0-pre7-0.0
<eruin> that's the candidate
<crimsun> you don't have multiverse enabled.
<eruin> it also lists 1.0-pre6-0.3ubuntu6
<eruin> from multiverse
<crimsun> sudo aptitude install mplayer-586=1:1.0-pre6-0.3ubuntu6
<eruin> hmm
<eruin> I must already have some marillat packages pulled in
<eruin> I need libxvidcore4 which wants a more recent libc6 than I have/can get ;)
<crimsun> you're not using testing, remember?
<crimsun> you have unstable
<eruin> I've switched to testing
<eruin> but I fear the damage is already done
<crimsun> eruin: then you need to downgrade/uninstall the packages from debian-marillat's unstable
<eruin> is there a simple way to do that?
<crimsun> needs a bit of awk magic and grep
<eruin> I get sweat heats just by seeing 'awk'
<|QuaD-> anyone feel like packaging an app now?
<DanielN_PD> morning
<DanielN_PD> |QuaD- : exacter please :)
<DanielN_PD> hi ivoks
<ivoks> hi all
<siretart> hi folks!
<ivoks> hi siretart
<siretart> huhu ivoks
<DanielN_PD> erm
<DanielN_PD> i have a question
<ivoks> fake MOTU ivoks :)
<siretart> does anybody know if there is a problem with packages.ubuntu.com?
<ivoks> so, TB is at 20:00 UTC
<DanielN_PD> if i had to write a patch to upstream source (talking about transition libs), should i provide the patch _and_ the debdiff to the bugreport?
<siretart> some packages seem to be out of date there. whats going on there?
<ivoks> DanielN_PD: debdiff should contain changes
<ivoks> DanielN_PD: and you should send patch to upstream
<DanielN_PD> ivoks: yeah, but there isn't included the other patch in debian/patches
<DanielN_PD> in the debdiff
<ivoks> ?
<siretart> DanielN_PD: I think that upstream should be able to extract the relevant changes of your debdiff
<DanielN_PD> siretart: no, it's impossible to detect in the debdiff, that there's another patch
<ivoks> ?!
<siretart> huh? how comes?
<DanielN_PD> don't know
<ivoks> then you did something wrong
<DanielN_PD> mhm
<ivoks> your debdiff should contain ALL changes beetwen inital source of package, and source of package you created
<DanielN_PD> yeah, i debdiffed between the version now in breezy and my patched one
<ivoks> if you included any patch in debian/patches
<ivoks> then that patch should be visible in debdiff too
<DanielN_PD> between the .dsc files
<ivoks> right
<ivoks> and it contains everything you added/removed
<DanielN_PD> no it doesn't :/
<ivoks> siretart: if it pulls package list from us.archive, then it is outdated
<DanielN_PD> and the patch is ok, if i build it, the patch is being added
<DanielN_PD> applied
<ivoks> DanielN_PD: then it contains your patch
<DanielN_PD> hrmpf
<DanielN_PD> wait, i'll provide the debdiff now
<ivoks> put that debdiff somewhere
<siretart> ivoks: hm. that could be an explanation..
<DanielN_> ree
<DanielN_> ivoks: you're right, it contains the patch
<DanielN_> i don't know
<DanielN_> what i saw yesterday night, i think it was too late already
<ivoks> khm...
<DanielN_> :)
<DanielN_> was my fault
<ivoks> "Companies like Progeny, Linspire, and Ubuntu..."
<ivoks> khm...
<DanielN_> erm
<ivoks> that ian...
<DanielN_> but who is upstream maintainer??
<siretart> does anybody know what happened to the backports team? I haven't heard anything from them quite a long time
<\sh> siretart: me neither
<siretart> hi \sh
<siretart> \sh: I wanted to take a look at darcs-buildpackage, unfortunatly it is only available in breezy, so I thought about backporting, which.. ;)
<\sh> darcs?
<siretart> I read some article about darcs, and did some rudimentary tests. it is a decentral scm, I think derived from arch in some way
<\sh> siretart: url?
<siretart> http://abridgegame.org/darcs/, but I looked at the package already in hoary
<siretart> and in debian unstable there is also darcs-buildpackage, but this is still on my todo list
<siretart> hm. tla-load-dirs needs merging.. checking MOM merge for upload
<siretart> but is looking good
<siretart> what is your opinion, should the maintainer in the merged changlog from MOM be changed from scott to the reviewer?
<\sh> i don't know :(
<siretart> asking in -devel
<HostingGeek> are there any lazy MOTU in here besides me?
<HostingGeek> ok ok I am not a MOTU
<ivoks> ?
<\sh> hmmm..daniel.robbins@microsoft.com
<HostingGeek> lol
<HostingGeek> \sh: I need IRC nicks
<HostingGeek> anyway bill.gates@microsoft.com is more lazy
<HostingGeek> he is to lazy to close down the company
<\sh> HostingGeek: u don't know daniel robbins
<\sh> ?
<HostingGeek> no
<HostingGeek> you?
<\sh> yes
<\sh> founder and chief architect of gentoo linux
<tseng> thats not the same guy
<tseng> @ microsoft
<tseng> he has a blog with his picture on it.
<\sh> tseng: drobbins is working for ms since the 23rd of may
<tseng> well then there are 2 drobbins there
<tseng> or you are misinformed
<\sh> tseng: and there is a daniel c. robbins @ ms hes 3d graphical expert
<\sh> tseng: read the gentoo planet :)
<tseng> yes
<\sh> tseng: i mean: drobbins
<tseng> er
<tseng> no thanks
<tseng> boring censored drivel
<\sh> tseng: it's big in the press
<\sh> tseng: and it's big on all planets, blogs, newsticker, whatever you can read
<tseng> *YAWN*
<tseng> congratulations on his new job
<\sh> tseng: my thoughts :)
<\sh> now he can drop the gentoo shop, and start contributing some money to the foundation ,->
<\sh> anyways...coffee
<HostingGeek> moo
<Nafallo> tseng: gooooood morning! :-D
<Nafallo> hi all! :-)
<tseng> :)
<DanielN_> ARGH
<DanielN_> can't belief that
<HostingGeek> DanielN_: are youm daniel r really
<HostingGeek> ?
<DanielN_> HostingGeek: erm.. don't understand what you mean
<HostingGeek> DanielN_: we where talking a lot about him before
* HostingGeek spams daniel.robbins@microsoft.com
<Lathiat> HostingGeek: dude
<Lathiat> HostingGeek: open your eyes
<Lathiat> 'Daniel_N_' not 'Daniel_R_'
<HostingGeek> <DanielN_> ARGH
<DanielN_> :))
<HostingGeek> <DanielN_> can't belief that
<HostingGeek> lamont: maybe he is anrgy daniel_r_ was taken
<Lathiat> now plz to -troll yourself
<Lathiat> alternatively find the closest available cliff and fall off it
<Nafallo> "fall" ;-)
<doko> ajmitch: what's the status of libsigcx ?
<Nafallo> \sh: ping
<Nafallo> \sh: nm
<doko> ajmitch: what's the status of cln, ginac, freefem
<ogra> doko, remind me that i owe you a bottle of single malt for doing my paperwork, next time we meet.... thanks a big lot :)
<doko> ogra: maybe you should be punished by bringing the bottle from Norway ;)
<ogra> doko, too late.... i'm already back and have to build a first edubuntu CD during the ext two weeks :)
<ogra> doko, but i have tzo go to london in the beginning of july, i could grab a nice bottle for you there :)
<doko> :)
* ogra sighs about mondo/mindi .... whee, thats a whole lot of work to make it ready for ppc/amd64
<doko> siretart: what's the status of libaqbanking?
<DanielN_PD> mhm
<DanielN_PD> how are you all testing, that packages build on architectures that yourselfe doesn't have
<DanielN_PD> ?
<doko> DanielN_PD: what's the status of aqsis?
<doko> DanielN_PD: what's the status of gdome2-xslt ?
<\sh> Nafallo: pong
<Nafallo> \sh: nm, but thanks for the wikipage about LocalAptGetRepositories :-)
<doko> \sh: what's the status of gnuradio?
<\sh> doko: no status update...the issue is raised at upstream but no change
<doko> which issue?
<\sh> doko: there is a compilation bug...
<\sh> > ../../src/lib/.libs/libgnuradio-core.so: undefined reference to
<\sh> > `gr_fxpt::TWO_TO_THE_31'
<\sh> > ../../src/lib/.libs/libgnuradio-core.so: undefined reference to
<\sh> > `gr_fxpt::PI'
<\sh> This is our problem...
<\sh> Eric
<\sh> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/discuss-gnuradio/2005-05/msg00176.html
<doko> with gfortran, or g77-3.4?
<\sh> g77-3.4 i think
<\sh> doko: what about ocaml?
<doko> waiting for daniels ...
<\sh> at least some showstoppers
<doko> \sh: what's the status of libpqxx ?
<\sh> doko: waiting for pitti :)
<\sh> ahhh.
<\sh> forget about pitti
<\sh> working like hell :)
<\sh> usr/include/postgres/8.0
<doko> \sh: what's the status of snacc ?
<\sh> working on it...fixing stuff
<\sh> libpqxx uploaded
<doko> \sh: what's the status of libsndobj2 ?
<doko> :)
<\sh> thx rest is easy
<\sh> libflash i have to upload for Unfrgiven
<DanielN_PD> doko: both finished
<DanielN_PD> no wait
<\sh> argl
<\sh> libflash-swfplayerc2
<\sh> nononono
<DanielN_PD> doko: these libs aren't any more in my care! i just kept open the bug, and removed my name from the wiki list
<\sh> grmpf..i will fix libflash now
<doko> DanielN_PD: what the status "finished" or "I don't care" ?
<bddebian> Howdy
<tritium> Good morning, bddebian
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<\sh> ogra: ping
<ogra> \sh, pong
<\sh> ogra: r u driving to the linuxtag?
<ogra> \sh, nope... no time for that
<\sh> ogra: well, if i can manage I'm trying to get down there...and try to meet mako or anyone who is there
<ogra> \sh, great.... go and represent ;)
<ogra> \sh, you probably should contact mako before he travels
<\sh> ogra: what should I represent? ubuntu or gentoo e.v. germany ?,-)
<ogra> \sh, your choice ;)
<\sh> ogra: first of all i have to check my account...:)
<\sh> ogra: yesterday I got the letter from the lawyer of my ex :(
<ogra> awww...
<\sh> looks like i need a third job as a callboy or something...
<ogra> heh, go ahead :)
<thesaltydog> \sh, if you need any consultancy, in my life I got 2 letters from the lawyers of my 2 ex's..
<\sh> thesaltydog: hahaha :)
<\sh> doko: what r we doing about this apache license vs. gp license issues?
<doko> DanielN_PD: please stop touching new packages, please fix your existing ones first (maybe ask \sh or ogra for help)
<doko> \sh: I didn't read that yet.
<\sh> doko: I raised it on ubuntu-devel ml...but looks like nobody is interessted ;)
<\sh> and who put me on ogras bug as CC...doko?
<DanielN_PD> doko: i don't care about these libs any more
<DanielN_PD> doko: just for information
<\sh> DanielN_PD: which libs?
<DanielN_PD> aqsis, libgdome2-xslt
<\sh> DanielN_PD: bugzilla entries?
<DanielN_PD> are still there
<doko> \sh: I did CC you
<Nafallo> \sh: if you want, I could put you as CC on all ogra's bugs? :-)
<doko> DanielN_PD: and what about the other libs?
<Nafallo> \sh: but it wasn't me ;-)
<DanielN_PD> doko: as you see, i've done a view of other libs yet.. and there are still such, where's my name in the wiki! and this one i do of course :)
<ogra> \sh, didnt you do that yourself last week (iirc) ?
<DanielN_PD> theese
<\sh> ogra: no
<DanielN_PD> argh
<\sh> doko@ubuntu.com changed:
<ogra> \sh, me neither... but i think i remember that you wanted to take them....
<\sh> heute 15:43
<\sh> ;)
<\sh> i upload most of the stuff of Unfrgiven now i'm taking DanielN_PDs stuff and took some of ajmitch
<\sh> doko: yeah i saw it..:)
<\sh> DanielN_PD: i took your bugs over...i will upload them later (when your debdiffs are ok, with your address)
<DanielN_PD> \sh: huh? correct with adress?
<DanielN_PD> and which bugs do you mean? gdome adn aqsis or the others?
<\sh> DanielN_PD: aqsis and gdome
<\sh> DanielN_PD: with your email address :) so the upload is recognized on your account :)
<\sh> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MaintainerCandidates
<\sh> so many "want to be" maintainers have to show up again
<zul> \sh: dont you mean posers :)
<DanielN_PD> \sh: well, if this is ok, it's no problem for me!
<DanielN_PD> \sh: but that means, that if something is wrong, the mails are sent to me, right?
<Nafallo> zul: !status on rt2500? :)
<zul> Nafallo: waiting for 2.6.12 to be released
<Nafallo> zul: but it has the latest bugfix I told you? :-)
<zul> Nafallo: its on the todo list we are trying to work on something that deals with rt2500
<zul> please be patient
<Nafallo> zul: hehe, I'll try :-)
<Nafallo> zul: the <something> is that module-watch-thing I guess? :-)
<zul> nope
<DanielN_PD> going home
<DanielN_PD> see ya later
<Nafallo> k
<\sh> DanielN_PD: u r on the bug at all...so u get all the mails...
<\sh> zul: no...i mean "want to be" maintainers :)
<zul> heh
<\sh> ok...time to go home...
<\sh> laters dude...
<\sh> TB meeting at 20:00 UTC :)
<ofr> hi
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> doko: ping
<ivoks> or anyone else :)
<DanielN> ree
<DanielN> ARGH
<DanielN> ogra, sorry i changed something on a bug of you. took the wrong one, sry!
<ogra> np
<DanielN> doko: damn, you're right my debdiff is wrong ;)
<DanielN> doko: sigcperl patch is fixed
<lamont__> pymol needs some python2.3->2.4 love
<rtcm> any motu around to review a (trivial) modification to a debian package?
<ivoks> eh :)
<ivoks> sec..
<ivoks> are there any plans to port OpenSolaris's SMF?
<ivoks> rtcm: where is your debdiff?
<rtcm> didn't do one, will do and post a link
<zul> ivoks: evil
<ivoks> zul: why evil? :)
<ivoks> licencse?
<zul> ivoks: its not under gpl and its solaris
<ivoks> zul: it's OSI certified
<ivoks> well, i didn't check license...
<ivoks> zul: ok, is there any other similar project?
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> You may not remove or alter any copyright, patent or trademark notices contained within the Covered Software
<ivoks> that sucks
<ivoks> :)
<rtcm> ivoks: there you go: http://artemis.av.it.pt/~rmatos/ubuntu/ion3_20050607-2ubuntu1.debdiff
<elmo> ivoks: OSI certified generally means nothing
<ivoks> elmo: i know
<ivoks> elmo: i'm reading license
<rtcm> ivoks: this package isn't being automatically imported from debian when it should given that the diff is a oneliner
<ivoks> elmo: btw... is there something wrong with my PGP?
<ivoks> rtcm: i don't think this will get into breezy
<ivoks> rtcm: contact  Per Olofsson <pelle@dsv.su.se> There must be a reson why he left xinerama out
<elmo> ivoks: I don't know, last I heard, mako was going to talk to you about it - has he?
<ivoks> elmo: no
<ivoks> elmo: he just asked for my PGP ID
<elmo> ivoks: ok, I'll have a look at my mail in a bit, and check with mako
<ivoks> elmo: i didn't heard from since then (week or two ago)
<ivoks> elmo: ok, thank you
<rtcm> ivoks: libxinerama doesn't exist in debian yet...
<ivoks> elmo: if you have any questions, please, contact me
<ivoks> rtcm: great! contact Per and suggest him this change
<ivoks> rtcm: or even better, send him this debdiff
<ivoks> rtcm: sorry
<ivoks> rtcm: tell that to ogra :)
<rtcm> ivoks: but while debian doesn't upgrade to xorg that package will be unbuildable there...
<ivoks> rtcm: yeah, i made a mistake
<ivoks> rtcm: ogra is "maintainer" in ubuntu
<rtcm> I will mail ogra then
<ogra> ??
<ogra> ivoks, ?
<ivoks> here he is :)
<ivoks> ogra: you synced ion3 from debian
<ogra> ivoks, its maintained by MOTU.....
<ivoks> ogra: ah, i see...
<ogra> ivoks, feel free to change it :)
<ivoks> ogra: will do, as soon as I get upload rights :)
<ivoks> or if i get upload rights :)
<ogra> ivoks, but tell it the debian maintainer if you did, he wants to know about it
<ivoks> ogra: i allways do that
<rtcm> great... this is really a trivial thing
<ivoks> they never respond :(
<ogra> ivoks, great :)
<ivoks> rtcm: great, i'll download sid's source and patch with your debdiff
<ivoks> yes, yes, i know for uupdate :)
<ivoks> rtcm: your name is?
<rtcm> the one in the changelog :)
<ivoks> ah, Matos
<ivoks> ogra: i can leave his name/mail in changelog, right?
<ivoks> can't
<ivoks> or?
<ogra> nope, not in changelog
<rtcm> ivoks: feel free to change it
<ivoks> ok
<ogra> but in the maintainer field
<ivoks> maintainer field?!
<ivoks> doesn't that one allways stays from debian?
<ogra> yes, please let elmo sync the recent version from debian before you apply the patch
<rtcm> btw, aren't this king of chages in the build-deps automatically handled by the importer scripts?
<rtcm> *kind
<ivoks> importer scripts?
<ivoks> i'm not aware of any scripts
<ivoks> only people :)
<ivoks> but i could be wrong
<rtcm> I thought the syncs to debian were automated
<ivoks> rtcm: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUToReview
<ogra> rtcm, they are...
<ivoks> rtcm: put link to your debdiff there
<ivoks> rtcm: so when ion3 gets synced, I will patch it
<rtcm> ivoks: in which section? i see three sections there
<ivoks> rtcm: first
<rtcm> ivoks: done, thanks
<ivoks> thank you
<Burgundavia> tseng, http://www.public.asu.edu/~bnickel/MuineTagger/ <-- thoughts?
<tseng> i havent tried it
<tseng> i dont see the point
<tseng> i use easytag
<tseng> its a thousand times more powerful
<tseng> and it doesnt clutter the freaking ui
<tseng> there is no reason for them to have put that crap in the main window
<tseng> Burgundavia: did you want me to tell you what i really thought?
<Burgundavia> I find easytag a piece of crap
<Burgundavia> and useing itunes, I realise that editing IS part of music libraries
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> flamewar :)
<tseng> i find this plugin a piece of crap
<tseng> get out of my muine window
<tseng> go in the File menu like everyone else
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> coc guys :)
<ivoks> coc
<tseng> dude
<tseng> its nothing personal
<bddebian> coc?
<ivoks> bddebian: yes, CoC
<Mez> ivoks likes coc
<Mez> :P
<tseng> oh man
<bddebian> What about my coc?
<tseng> knock it off.
<ivoks> http://www.grawert.net/CoC.txt
<Mez> :D
<bddebian> Heh
* Mez huggles everyone in the room
<bddebian> aww, thx
<ivoks> :D
<ivoks> easytag is nice
<ivoks> and this muine tagger is nice
<ivoks> i'm sure both will have audience
<tseng> ivoks: of course
<ivoks> tseng: why are they some red and some black listed files?
<tseng> red means it fixed something
<ivoks> :>
<tseng> and you didnt save the changes yet
<ivoks> hm... lots of fixing
<tseng> you probably stole lots of music then :P
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i found CDs on the road :)
<tseng> ah
<tseng> and cddb totally farked your tags
<tseng> since the cd was scratched..
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> mess, dude, mess :)
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> do you want to rename project_topaz to do_it_with_madonna
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> this is great app
<ivoks> muine tagger sucks :)
<herve> hello
<ivoks> herve: hi
<Riddell> anyone available to review a package?
<Riddell> http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/kubuntu/ivman
<herve> this makes me think...
<herve> DanielN, ping
<ivoks> rain... :(
<ivoks> bye all
<ivoks> see you at 20:00 UTC
<DanielN> herve: pong
<herve> DanielN, still need reviewing "when"?
<\sh> re
<DanielN> herve: you have to change your comment (md5mismatch is fixed)
<DanielN> and then it's ready i think
<herve> I remember I had other comments ;-)
<DanielN> herve: some dh_* which are not used :)
<\sh> Unfrgiven: ping
<\sh> hope he is here tonite
<\sh> DanielN: now i will take a look on your packages
<\sh> your cxx packages :)
<DanielN> \sh: again? :)
<DanielN> \sh: ahh
<DanielN> :>
<\sh> hehe...well i have a life as I realized lately ;)
<DanielN> ???
<DanielN> can't follow..
<\sh> DanielN: I wish i could work all day on this linux stuff and on my dtv main work :)
* DanielN is attempting to smoke one :)
<DanielN> \sh: same here :)
<DanielN> well, not DTV but you now what i mean ;)
<\sh> u don't want to smoke dtv ? ,)
<\sh> DanielN: tell me, why do u change the name in debian/control but not the corresponding files for the installation?
<ivoks> hi
<\sh> aqsis-libs.dirs should be aqsis-libsc2.dirs
<\sh> changed also debian/rules
<\sh> ok...
<\sh> and where is debian/patches/aqsislibs_c2_patch.diff
<Burgundavia> tseng, is it worth reporting beagle bugs?
<tseng> Burgundavia: depends on the bug
<tseng> ill be glad to direct you
<Burgundavia> Unhandled Exception: System.TypeInitializationException: An exception was thrown by the type initializer for Beagle.Util.Inotify ---> System.DllNotFoundException: libMonoPosixHelper.so
<tseng> you need libmono-dev
<Burgundavia> ah
<tseng> we fixed this upstream
<tseng> will hit soon
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> cheers
<tseng> working?
<herve> DanielN, begin reviewing, I hope your router is ok :-)
<\sh> don't we have meeting now?
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> herve: ?
<herve> hmmm...
<herve> how maintainers differ from motu?
<DanielN>  herve, it should be ok
<DanielN> or then i'm a bad sysadmin ;)
<herve> DanielN, waiting server response...
<DanielN> lol sorry
<DanielN> then it's you, i tested it from several locations now
<DanielN> and it simply works
<DanielN> http://marissa.ath.cx/daniel/archive/breezy
<herve> I could list the directory
<herve> but no wget...
<bddebian> Did wget ever get fixed in Debian and upstream?
<herve> no s
<ivoks> meeting time :)
<ivoks> herve: what have you been drinking? :)
<herve> what have I *not* been drinking? ;-)
<ivoks> hehehe
<\sh> DanielN: do u need upload space for your packages?
<herve> no, he needs a good router ;-)
<DanielN> herve: youre the one who sucks
<DanielN> :)
<herve> no, wget is
<DanielN> my router is ok :>
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> i need help a bit
<herve> just ctrl+c and run again, now it's ok
<ivoks> i renamed limeshio0 to libmeshio0c2
<ivoks> i need to change shlibs file
<DanielN> herve: so you got it now?
<ivoks> it containts: libmeshio 0.2.0 meshio (>> 0.2.0-0), meshio (<< 0.2.0-99
<herve> DanielN, yes
<ivoks> i'm not sure what changes should i do
<DanielN> great
<herve> \sh, so maintainership is for main or I get it wrong?
<herve> DanielN, either you or I are doomed
<herve> md5sum mismatch
<herve> I'll use another tool
<DanielN> err
<DanielN> wait, it could be
<\sh> herve: no
<DanielN> herve: it isn't
<\sh> herve: maintainership is for upload in common
<\sh> herve: the differences are only upload for main or universe..so first universe and then some time after universe main
<herve> so both main uploader and motus apply...
<herve> ok, now I need to remember it :-)
<\sh> herve: yes
<Riddell> \sh: would you be able to look at my ivman package?
<DanielN> herve: still md5mismatch? it works for me
<DanielN> with apt-get source
<\sh> Riddell: i'm taking now all the kde packages
<herve> DanielN, I'm doing three thing at the same time :-)
<herve> and I already get difficulty to concentrate on a single one
<DanielN> ;>
<herve> I'll tell you when I'm over
<Riddell> \sh: http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/kubuntu/ivman
<\sh> Riddell: what's the purpose of ivman? ,-)
<\sh> ah...now i get it
<\sh> argl
<siretart> hi folks
<ivoks> alternative to g-v-m
<siretart> Mithrandir: in which channel is the nx meeting?
<\sh> Riddell: debian/copyright...only the first part..and then a pointer to /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
<Riddell> \sh: it's not GPL
<ivoks> lol
<\sh> or qpl
<Riddell> no QPL in /usr/share/common-licenses/
<\sh> hmmm..we should update this
<herve> ivoks, really? someone was looking for a kde equivalent to gvm today :-)
<Riddell> herve: where abouts?
<ivoks> herve: ivman is no-gui
<ivoks> herve: it lacks some g-v-m fetures, but is good project
<Riddell> ivoks: which features?
<herve> I mean, adding an icon on the desktop and open a konqueror window on the media
<Riddell> herve: icon on desktop is already added
<\sh> Riddell: if you put it on MOTUNewPackages i would like to sign it ;)
<ivoks> Riddell: asking for password on mounting crypted usb stick
<herve> Riddell, in kubuntu hoary?
<Riddell> ivoks: hmm
<Riddell> ivoks: any docs on making a crypted usb stick?
<Riddell> herve: yes
<ivoks> Riddell: yes :)
<herve> DanielN, ok, I think we made a confusion
<herve> I mean, the orig.tar.gz is not the same as the upstream tarball
<ivoks> Riddell: http://www.flyn.org/easycrypto/easycrypto.html
<DanielN> herve: that is correct! ivoks said i should do it like that .. making changes and then pack the orig.tar.gz manually
<DanielN> err
<ivoks> ?!
<herve> ??
<DanielN> i mean the upstream tarball
* ivoks is double considering reviewing new DanielN's packages
<herve> you should rename the upstream tarball to when_1.0.23.orig.tar.gz and work from here
<herve> you're not supposed to package upstream releases yourself
<herve> remember to be as less intrusive as possible
<DanielN> yep
<Riddell> \sh: wiki doesn't want to work for me
<DanielN> but herve: if i want to change something in the upstream.. i must provide it as a patch ??
<herve> DanielN, replace your orig with the upstream one renamed
<herve> regenerate a source package
<herve> and I approve it
<\sh> uh for me neither
<herve> DanielN, yes you do, and report it to upstream for inclusion in the next revision
<DanielN> argh i'm disappointet
<\sh> DanielN: why?
<DanielN> just rename the upstream tar to orig tar and rebuild?
<ivoks> herve: is this about when?
<DanielN> yeah
<ivoks> upstream tarball, when extracted, doesn't produce when directory
<ivoks> that's the problem
<ivoks> it creats some other directory
<ivoks> like release/ or something like that
<DanielN> when_dist
<ivoks> when_dist
<ivoks> this is wrong, and should be changed, imho
<herve> why?
<ivoks> that's why you get md5 mismatch
<ivoks> cause source should be in packagename-version
<herve> he gets md5 mismatch because he made a tarball on his own
<herve> ivoks, tell that to upstream
<ivoks> herve: on his own?
<DanielN> herve: i haven't an md5 mismatch
<herve> of his own?
<ivoks> i told him to rename that when_dist to when-version
<\sh> now its working again
<ivoks> and to gzip it and tar it
<ivoks> but when he runs dpkg-buildpackage
<ivoks> script creates .orig.tar.gz
<herve> ivoks, I understand your point of view, but you told it to the wrong person :-)
<herve> ivoks, no, the scripts compare the orig archive with the current state
<herve> but certainly won't touch the orig
<herve> any difference goes in the diff.gz
<ivoks> herve: there wasn't .oirg.tar.gz :)
<herve> unless it's a native package of course
<herve> ivoks, that's what I told him to do
<ivoks> unless he did something wrong :)
<herve> rename the filename of the upstream tarball
<herve> how do you get a orig otherwise?
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> wifi-radar_1.9.4-0ubuntu2.tar.gz
<ivoks> for example
<herve> DanielN, you're going well?
<DanielN> ?
<ivoks> and i didn't have any archive in that dir
<ivoks> dpkg-buildpackage created it
<ivoks> hm..
<herve> ivoks, hmmm... I may have missed it
<herve> I'll check later
<ivoks> but, you are right
<ivoks> this isn't .orig.tar.gz
<ivoks> my mistake :)
<herve> DanielN, you know what to do?
<DanielN> telling upstream maintainer?
<ivoks> this archive contains whole source, with debian/
<DanielN> ah
<herve> DanielN, also :-)
<DanielN> and it shouldn't, because that must be created with the .diff.gz, right?
<DanielN> debian/ i mean
<ivoks> DanielN: get archive and rename it to when-version.orig.tar.gz
<ivoks> DanielN: right
<herve> when_version.orig.tar.gz :-)
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-first.en.html#s-dh_make
<siretart> the "_" is important. it bit me several times in the past ;)
<ivoks> Package name and version are separated by the "_" .
<DanielN> ok, and then debuild :)
<ivoks> ah, wait!!!
<ivoks> stop!!!!
<ivoks> you should do dh_make
<DanielN> cool down :)
<ivoks> that will create .orig.tar.gz
<DanielN> with the unchanged upstream
<herve> hmm wait...
<DanielN> ?
<ivoks> DanielN: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-first.en.html#s-dh_make
<herve> really strange
<ivoks> i told you to do dh_make, remember?
<herve> ivoks, don't make him mess his package :-)
<ivoks> herve: it's better to learn it right, mess is irelevant :)
<ivoks> it isn't big package, therefor can't be too messy
<herve> but regenerating a whole source package...
<ivoks> herve: nah... he can erase debian/*
<herve> I thought that was easy
<ivoks> and copy his own stuff
<herve> but debuild keeps using when-1.0.23 directory
<ivoks> ah, i'm to tierd :)
<herve> don't tell me
<DanielN> me too guys
<DanielN> we should discuss about that at a funnier time :)
<herve> agree
<herve> I must admit I even forgot how one gets a orig.tar.gz :-)
<DanielN> it's not debuild
<DanielN> ;>
<bddebian> herve: By hand.. :-)
<herve> yeah, the most reliable ;-)
<bddebian> Just don't leave "shit" files in there like I always do.. :-)
<ivoks> herve: dh_make :)
<herve> ivoks, we are supposed to know how to handle packages by hand
<herve> aren't we, ogra? ;-)
<ogra> ?
<ogra> ah, yes :-D
<ogra> herve, rather how to build packages with debhelper
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> i think by hand is to much ;)
<herve> ogra, we wonder what makes a orig.tar.gz
<ogra> tar ?
<bddebian> hehe
<ogra> if i make a new package, i use just tar... the dh_make
<\sh> hey ogra
<ivoks> no, it's gzip :)
<ogra> then even
<ogra> tar xzvf
<ogra> err
<herve> ogra, how to fix the orig.tar.gz
<ogra> tar czvf
<bddebian> tar -xzf
<bddebian> fix
<herve> I thought moving the upstream tarball to that name
<bddebian> tar czf
<herve> and debuild -S was enough
* bddebian hides
<herve> but dpkg-bp keeps using when-1.0.23 as a name
<herve> well, no
<herve> why do I worry?
<ivoks> :)
<herve> if debian wants when-1.0.23 in the diff.gz
<herve> but keeps when_dist in the orig
<herve> I'm perfectly ok with that
<ivoks> is breezy first distro that will be build with g++4/gcc4?
<herve> no, fedora core shipped with that
<herve> core 4
<ivoks> ah, ok
<ivoks> not shipped with gcc4
<ivoks> but build with it
<herve> built with too
<ivoks> then they have all the patches, don't they?
<herve> they provide a consistant set of packages and toolchain ;-)
<herve> many for sure
<herve> hmm... I'm wondering if you were there when we talked about it
<ivoks> where?
<ivoks> i'm new in ubuntu
<herve> in this very channel
<herve> but you came after the transition began, no?
<ivoks> i've been here only one month
<ivoks> and allready a MOTU :)
<ivoks> without upload rights :)
<ivoks> fake MOTU :)
<\sh> argl
<\sh> 3 packages, 3x patching time
<Riddell> where can I find a list of Sections for packages?
<ivoks> ah, bed...
<ivoks> bye all
<herve> bye
<DanielN> but fc4 is silly.. they provide a stable release with a rc kernel
<\sh> riddell: in /usr/share/lintian/checks/fields.desc?
<\sh> DanielN: rc means for redhat nothing...they have cox, alan cox.
<herve> Ridell, debian policy or http://packages.debian.org/unstable/
<herve> DanielN, and OOo 2.0 by default
<DanielN> ;>
<Riddell> \sh: any idea which Section to put ivman in?
<DanielN> \sh: wohoooo.. he's the man :X
<herve> Riddell, I think of kde because this is quite specific, no?
<herve> DanielN, I'll sign tomorrow now
<herve> the wiki is dead anyway
<herve> night all
<Riddell> herve: no, the idea of it is that it's not specific
<Riddell> and no program that uses glib can really be called KDE
<\sh> well..difficult decision
<\sh> utils?
<\sh> i would say utils
<Riddell> utils it is then
<\sh> or otherosfs? ,-)
<\sh> ok...time to go to bed
<\sh> have a hard day tomorrow...cu uys
<\sh> +g
<siretart> \sh: gn8
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-22
<Unfrgiven> \sh: hey dude
<Unfrgiven> good morning all
<tseng> hi
<Unfrgiven> how are you tseng?
<Unfrgiven> tseng: expect a intro developer doc for review sometime next week
<tseng> Unfrgiven: yay!
<Unfrgiven> tseng: :)
<Unfrgiven> tseng: how are things in the mono world?
<tseng> good
<tseng> dajobe just sent me candy
<Unfrgiven> ?!?
<tseng> new muine plugins packages
<Nafallo> dang. I thought it _was_ candy :-P
<tseng> it is!
<Nafallo> sounds more like bling ;-)
<Unfrgiven> tseng: does muine have media library support like rhythmbox?
<Unfrgiven> i find rhythmboxes library support quite sucky
* Unfrgiven hugs winamp 5. still looking for a linux equivalent
<seth_k> siretart: are you the one to talk to about universe games?
<tseng> Unfrgiven: sortof
<tseng> you need to see it to understand
<Burgundavia> seth_k, I am the cheerleader for MOTUGames (but I haven't done any of the grunt work)
<seth_k> Burgundavia, can you cheerlead for me? I've patched zSNES 1.42 and it now builds on Breezy (current version is 1.36 in Breezy and 1.40 in upstream)
<seth_k> Burgundavia, and was wondering about getting it pushed to universe, so that jdong doesn't eat me for making a backport without the package being in breezy
<Burgundavia> list it here
<Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages
<Burgundavia> and then bug siretart about it
<seth_k> that's for updated packages as well as new?
<tseng> no
<Burgundavia> hmm, got by our wiki again
<seth_k> so, ermm
<seth_k> try again :P
<Nafallo> tseng: feel free to review to patch against etherape ;-)
<Nafallo> tseng: only 561kB ;-)
<tseng> etherape?
<Nafallo> s/ape/eal/
<tseng> yes
<Nafallo> I'm tired ... :-P
<Nafallo> I tried to build the damn thing against breezy multiple times *sigh*
<Nafallo> FTBFS as a result :-P
* Nafallo wishes good night
<seth_k> Burgundavia, do you have another idea?
<seth_k> bug siretart directly and bypass wikipage?
<Burgundavia> I guess so
<seth_k> okay, I guess I'll just wait for him to come back
<Burgundavia> the world will not end if it takes a few days
<Burgundavia> and I am glad that jdong is cracking down
<seth_k> oh, I'm not in any hurry
<tseng> yay, death to zwiki
<Burgundavia> hey tseng, I think beagle might have a small memory leak issue
<tseng> yes?
<Burgundavia> I actually had another program complain about lack of memory
<Burgundavia> beagle had been running for about 1 hours
<Burgundavia> and I walked the dog just beofre I started it
<Burgundavia> hm, no actually, I didn't
<tseng> well im not an elite coder type
<tseng> i fix packaging bugs
<tseng> that sounds like one valid to discuss with upstream
<tseng> ill be happy to do what i can to assist you in that
<Burgundavia> it also corrupted my terminal;
<tseng> ok again not a packaging issue
<Burgundavia> yes
<tseng> so are you comfortable reporting bugs upstream?
<tseng> i have very good sucess with this
<Burgundavia> sure, where?
<Burgundavia> gnome or novell?
<tseng> gnome
<Burgundavia> can do
<tseng> http://beaglewiki.org/Main_Page
<tseng> all info here
<tseng> also #dashboard on gimpnet is available
<tseng> thanks.
<Burgundavia> tseng, can I start bugging you now?
<Burgundavia>  trow has changed the topic to: www.beagle-project.org | Beagle 0.0.11 has been released!
<tseng> damn
<tseng> ok
<Burgundavia> btw, nice work with all the mono stuff
<tseng> thanks.
<tseng> trow and joe fixed all my bugs for this release too
<tseng> wb schweeb
<tseng> Burgundavia: did that make any sense, before i blow him off? in #db
<tseng> mp3 tagging + graphing + "the brain"
<Burgundavia> the tagging tool should be part of tying beagle deeper into the desktop
<Burgundavia> and the brain thing is just odd
<Burgundavia> but I could see drag and drop mindmapping
<Burgundavia> that might be cool
<Burgundavia> no, you didn't blow him off
<tseng> yes, im ignoring him :P
<Burgundavia> the motus have made good progress with NewPackages recently
<tseng> great
<Burgundavia> so I figured I would celebrate by adding another
<tseng> im the worst motu ever
<Burgundavia> the man who makes Mono rock is not the worst MOTU ever
<tseng> heh i dont contribute to group projects
<tritium> tseng, no, I'm an awful motu right now
<tseng> i contribute only to mono things all over the place.
<tseng> i wonder how many packages i own now
<tseng> mono, gtk-sharp, gtk-sharp2, gecko sharp 1, 2, gtksourceviewsharp 1,2, beagle, muine, tomboy, f-spot, evo-sharp
<tseng> gmime-sharp
<tseng> more im sure
* tritium notices that tseng does not disagree with him on his last comment ;)
<tseng> yeah i dont see any of you on breezy-changes
<tseng> to make an argument
<tritium> you're right
<tseng> i give up on koke
<tseng> im uploading this
<tritium> I'll get back in gear after I defend.
<plugwash> still no freepascal binaries in universe though :(
<|QuaD-> whooaa... just saw breezy changes, that was fast!
<tseng> a new record?
<|QuaD-> heh, i dunno, i just came back to my comp and saw new beagle, and then i check breezy changes, not updated
<|QuaD-> then it is!
<tseng> indeed
<Burgundavia> can the Mono people promote Ubuntu, due to our speed in getting their apps into U?
<Burgundavia> being Novell employees and all
<|QuaD-> Burgundavia: ubuntu devs are novell employees?
<|QuaD-> eh?
<Burgundavia> the mono devs
<|QuaD-> ohh, why would they awant to promote the competition?
<tseng> |QuaD-: we arent really competition at all atm
<tseng> we are free and dont (yet) offer commercial support
<tseng> actually at GUADEC, someone asked miguel "when will fedora have mono"
<tseng> he says, probably never.. just use novell. actually, dont use novell, use ubuntu
<tseng> you can download the ogg
<|QuaD-> haha i believe you :)
<tseng> he sent me a stuffed monkey and a mono tshirt
<tseng> :)
<tseng> i <3 novell guys, they just have a crappy distro
<|QuaD-> haha
<|QuaD-> yeah
<|QuaD-> i tried suse between my debian->ubuntu switch
<|QuaD-> i lasted 2 days with suse
<ogra> tseng, i wonder when he offers you a job ;)
<tseng> hah
<tseng> i doubt they woudl pay someone to do deb and not rpm
<tseng> BenM already does all the rpms
<ogra> tseng, but they look for people :)
<tseng> sure.
<ogra> and miguel knows your skills ;)
<|QuaD-> tseng: started beagle, crashed right away
<tseng> can you come up with something a bit more useful?
<tseng> beagled --fg --debug
<|QuaD-> tseng: hehe, yeah, trying to figure it out first
<tseng> give me the exception
<|QuaD-> address already in use.... seems can't bind to a socket
<|QuaD-> thats my comp
<tseng> i see
<tseng> do you have another beagle still running
<|QuaD-> tseng: nope
<|QuaD-> tseng: actually, seems i have an old process
<tseng> yes :)
<|QuaD-> from when it crashed a while back
<tseng> kill that off and try again
<|QuaD-> tseng: i did, its goin
<tseng> rock on
<|QuaD-> how do we use the config?
<tseng> beagle-config --help
<tseng> its not very useful atm
<|QuaD-> tseng: ok, thats why i don't really understand it
<|QuaD-> couldn't figure out what it does
<tseng> it adjusts one setting
<|QuaD-> yeah
<|QuaD-> tseng: you are running hula right?
<|QuaD-> on ubuntu?
<tseng> hrm i ran it once
<tseng> to try it
<|QuaD-> ahh, i wanted to know the stability
<tseng> its stable
<|QuaD-> it works well?
<tseng> just lacking features/polish
<|QuaD-> do you knwo anyone using it?
<tseng> well my peeve is the deb i used
<tseng> doesnt send mail to an A record
<tseng> it dies if there is no MX
<|QuaD-> does it do it now?
<tseng> no idea
<tseng> id hope they fixed it
<|QuaD-> ohh
<|QuaD-> i am waiting for a new hula package, ours is kinda old
<tseng> yes
<tseng> goodnight
<|QuaD-> night
<whiprush> |QuaD-: I use hula.
<whiprush> tseng: your beagle-fu is _awesome_.
<schweeb> tseng: hai
<siretart> morning
<Burgundavia> morning
<jsgotangco> salut
<DanielN_PD> moin
<wm_eddie_> ohayoo gozaimasu
<siretart> huh? what language is that? ;)
<jsgotangco> japanese
<siretart> ah. :)
<wm_eddie_> I'm one of those crazy people who take Japanese.
<wm_eddie_> It's great for making sure my GPA doesn't get too high ><
<siretart> gpa?
<wm_eddie_> Grade Point Average.
<siretart> aha
<schweeb> wm_eddie_: high school or college?
<wm_eddie_> College.
<schweeb> college is kind of important, hs is worthless
<schweeb> (gpa that is)
<ivoks> :)
<jsgotangco> rock and roll high school :)
<koke> hi all!
<ivoks> hi
<Mithrandir> tseng: about two hours and fifteen minutes?  Impressive.
<DanielN_PD> haihai :)
<jsgotangco> ogra, edubuntu summit?
<ogra> jsgotangco,
<ogra> yep
<jsgotangco> ogra, frankly i am very much interested in edubuntu but it has escaped me for some reason, probably because i have no idea what is happening about it
<ogra> jsgotangco, i was in bergen at the skolelinux gathering with sabdfl and JaneW last weekend and we sorted what we need and what is doable in the short timeframe we have
<jsgotangco> ahhh now at least it has been structured a bit
<ogra> long term target is to have something like the debian-edu packages but with less crack....
<ogra> short term target is to have a "one classrom solution" for now....
<jsgotangco> ok ill look on the wiki on what is in there and start writing crack for it on our svn
<jsgotangco> ogra, the wiki, url, and list just came in as a surprise for me
<jsgotangco> i thought it was either half-alive or half-dead
<ogra> jsgotangco, half-alive would match it ;)
<ogra> jsgotangco, we just didnt have a clear picture before last weekend
<ogra> but now it comes to life more and more
<jsgotangco> ok that's great at least its back on track i'll look in the wiki first
<ogra> jsgotangco, feel free to add cool stuff
<jsgotangco> ogra, i'm only good at writing crack xml so i'll add an edubuntu tree into svn
<jsgotangco> and just post in the wiki
<ogra> jsgotangco, i thenk we'll need a lot of docs.... and it wolud be cool to have everything in the same format (the apps are very mixed and every single one brings its documentation in its own format
<ogra> )
<ogra> s/thenk/think
<jsgotangco> ogra, it actually needs a very thorough manual
<jsgotangco> teacher/student
<jsgotangco> hrmm
<jsgotangco> i should start investigating
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes :)
<jsgotangco> ogra, count me in, i just transferred ownership of kubuntu manuals to a prospective committer and edubuntu just got in at the right time
<ogra> yay
<DanielN_PD> mhmh
<DanielN_PD> some wiki stuff about edubuntu?
<jsgotangco> www.edubuntu.org
<DanielN_PD> thx
<jsgotangco> its very much in flux at the moment though
<Riddell> ogra: would you be able to review my ivman package?  http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/kubuntu/ivman/
<ogra> Riddell, during the day....
<jsgotangco> Riddell, hi would you be able to review kubuntu docs when they're already up for review?
<Riddell> jsgotangco: sure, how do I find them?
<jsgotangco> Riddell, i'll publish them as html when they're done and send a link to you
<Riddell> cool
<jsgotangco> Riddell, so far kubuntu quick guide is almost done
<jsgotangco> ogra, wee its now in our svn i'll just hack up basic doc structure tonight
<jsgotangco> (its just folders for now but its a start)
<ogra> yeah
<DanielN_PD> does someone now, when the @ubuntu.com adresses are open for the common members?
<DanielN_PD> :)
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> i think its a forwarder for now
<DanielN_PD> ?
<DanielN_PD> ah it's not a whole pop3 account?
<jsgotangco> im not so sure..ogra?
<DanielN_PD> well, i'ts not such important, just interested me, cause it would be cool to get such an adress
<DanielN_PD> :)
<jsgotangco> well sabdfl has continously abused elmo on that :-) im sure it'll come soon
<ogra> DanielN_PD, its a forwarder, yes
<DanielN_PD> ogra: ok, and do you know something about when it's open for the normal members?
<ogra> nope
<DanielN_PD> oki :)
<jsgotangco> normal members?
<jsgotangco> you mean there are special members? hehehe
<DanielN_PD> should talk more clean
<DanielN_PD> :)
<DanielN_PD> there was a thread on the list a fiew months ago. topic was, that every member recieves such an adress
<ogra> yep, thats planned
<ogra> but depends on the launchpad structure i guess....
<ogra> thats why sabdfl told everyone to subscribe to the launchpad members group in the last CC meeting
<jsgotangco> yeah i remember that right
<jsgotangco> DanielN_PD, https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers
<tseng> good morning motus
<jsgotangco> hi
<wm_eddie_> It's about that time to go to bed.
<mon> hi, i was wondering if there's any news about packaging the games Corey Burger mentioned in his blog. they seem pretty cool
<tseng> Mithrandir: btw beagle has a networked mode now
<tseng> Mithrandir: i think the security is the same as the web service.. off-by-default and then only searchs folders you allow
<jsgotangco> bye bye
<HostingGeek> AHHHHHHHHHHH
<HostingGeek> this chilli is burning
<HostingGeek> and water makes it burn more
<HostingGeek> helopppp
<jamessan> eat some salt
<jbailey> I like that burning feeling.  It reminds me that I'm alive. =)
<DanielN_PD> launchpad seems to be a very interesting project
<koke> tseng: BTW, I'm still alive ;P
<koke> but madly busy
* koke doing a huge breezy upgrade
<tseng> koke: :D
<tseng> koke: hi!
<tseng> wow the wiki is much better
<tseng> whiprush: ping?
<bddebian> Good morning
<lesliev> I have been looking at the missing .desktop file problem: to write these files, do we need to redo the package or just submit a .desktop file?
<lesliev> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile
<lesliev> If helping would be making a new package, what is CDBS?
<ivoks> hm, new wiki
<ivoks> cdbs is way of defining rules in debian/rules :)
<ivoks> faster wiki :) better wiki :)
<tseng> and its not ugly as hell
<ivoks> yeah..
<ivoks> works great
<ivoks> one remark, tough..
<ivoks> it doesn't return you to the page you requested
<ivoks> after login
<lesliev> How do you know if cdbs is used by looking at debian/control?
<ivoks> debian/rules
<tseng> debian/control will tell you
<tseng> it has cdbs as a build-dep
<ivoks> jesus... does anyone uses ISDN with linux?
<lesliev> ok, I am looking at making a .desktop file for sopwith
<lesliev> I see that cdbs is not being used but debhelper is in build-depends, so thats ok
<lesliev> Now in rules, I have to make rules to install .desktop and the png icon...
<lesliev> and put in a call to dh_desktop
<lesliev> Do I just put dh_desktop under binary-arch?
<lesliev> What lines do I put in to install the .desktop and the png, and where?
* koke lost X in the last upgrade
<ivoks> lesliev: i did cp blabla.desktop $(curdir)/debian/blabla/usr/share/applications/
<Mez> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
<Mez> the 2REviews" section ...
<Mez> is that for thing that ahve been done but need fixing, or for things that just need doing#
<lesliev> ivoks: under which build target? Does it matter? I suppose 'install' is logical.
<tseng> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo is for things that need doing
<Lathiat> yay breezy works and it didnt remove any packages:)
<ivoks> lesliev: under build
<ivoks> lesliev: ah, pardon, install
<lesliev> ok, and I put the dh_desktop at the end of binary_arch
<Lathiat> tseng: hrm, monodevelop failsto start becauseit cant find gnome-sharp in the GAC, known issue?
<thesaltydog> is there any german mate who can help me in translating a message?
<siretart> hi
<littlepaul> hi siretart
<siretart> hm, thesaltydog left a minute too early..
<littlepaul> siretart, a wrote my statement to help him - but he left already
<siretart> perhaps he already found someone
<littlepaul> siretart, O.T. but i'm interested in your opinion about something that i wrote for a while
<siretart> littlepaul: what is it?
<ivoks> hi all
<littlepaul> it is a text (thoughts about ubuntu) not a script ;-)
<siretart> hi ivoks
<siretart> littlepaul: ok, url?
<littlepaul> siretart, i hope you got it
<siretart> jupp
<tseng> Lathiat: i guess its missing a dep
<Lathiat> tseng: any idea which one so i canfind out?
<Lathiat> libgnome-cil isinstalled
<tseng> libgnome2.0-cil?
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> right, no thats not installed
<tseng> mail me about it
<mitsuhiko> hi folks
<ivoks> hi
<mitsuhiko> i've found ab bug in the wiki, who do I have to contact?
<bddebian> Hello mitsuhiko
<mitsuhiko> hi
<bddebian> It's a wiki, fix it.. ;-)
<mitsuhiko> it's not a wiki page, it's the wiki itself ;)
<mitsuhiko> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/search_form
<mitsuhiko> when you search you can't goto an wiki page cause all links has a "/view" appended
<bddebian> Oooohhhhhh
<bddebian> :-)
<binbrain> i have some newbie questions...pbuilder is used for maintaining the chroot env right
<binbrain> you build your pacakage against the base.tar.gz
<binbrain> why not just chroot and then build your package in there?
<jamessan|work> because pdebuild is easier
<jamessan|work> and it cleans up after you
<seth_k> with pdebuild it's just one command, boom you're done and have signed packages. why not use it and save the trouble?
<jamessan|work> ooh, you can have pdebuild sign the pacakges, too?
<binbrain> so in practice, do you usually chroot and test the built package
<jamessan|work> ah, so you can.  I'll have to remember that option
<mitsuhiko> hi DanielN
<seth_k> jamessan|work, --auto-debsign :)
<binbrain> anyhow, I'm running hoary, I can pbuild a breezy base, build against that, and chroot to test it
<DanielN> hi mitsuhiko
<binbrain> is my logic correct here
<seth_k> absolutely, i'm running breezy and have both hoary and breezy bases
<binbrain> excellent
<binbrain> thanks for the help
<seth_k> so I use a line like pdebuild --auto-debsign --buildresult ../ -- --basetgz /var/cache/pbuilder/hoary.tgz
* jamessan|work makes mental notes
<jamessan|work> :)
<seth_k> :D
<seth_k> I was told, though, that you should build a hoary chroot, then update it to breezy, rather than building a direct breezy chroot
* seth_k shrugs
<seth_k> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PBuilderHowto
<jamessan|work> lowercase b
<seth_k> oops, sorry
<jamessan|work> that's ok.  there was a link from that page
<jamessan|work> :)
<seth_k> hmm, binbrain, guess you missed that link: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<seth_k> meh, I'm really good at *just* missing siretart :)
<seth_k> he was idle for something like 29 minutes when I arrived
<siretart> huh? i'm here :)
<seth_k> :O
<seth_k> :D
<seth_k> I have a patched zSNES package, 1.4.2 (1.3.6 is in Breezy, 1.4.0 is upstream)
<seth_k> and I hear you're the one to talk to about Universe games
<seth_k> and was wondering if you could look at it for me sometime
<tseng> hm how do you mean you have 1.4.2 while 1.4.0 is upstream
<siretart> seth_k: great :) - yes, where is your package?
<seth_k> sorry, 1.4.0 is in Debian. 1.4.2 is the latest release, from source
<binbrain> breezy.buildd not present, DLing from and placing into debootstrap/scripts folder
<seth_k> siretart, http://sethkinast.com/ubuntu/breezy/zsnes/
<seth_k> siretart, thank you much :)
<siretart> seth_k: do you happen to know if it is c++?
<seth_k> most of it is x86 assembly, i'm not sure if the supporting code is c++
<siretart> ok.
<seth_k> but it does build cleanly on a fresh chroot'd breezy, and on fresh hoary as well
<seth_k> any quick way for me to peek and tell?
<siretart> seth_k: your dsc is strange, it is referring to a zsnes_1.420-1ubuntu1.tar.gz
<seth_k> o_0
<seth_k> yes, I see that. hm, but the file I uploaded was 1.420.orig.tar.gz
<seth_k> I took 1.400 from debian, uupdate -u on the source of 1.420, then patched the source to build. i'm not extremely familiar with that process yet so I probably mismatched something
<siretart> seth_k: no problem. I'm just looking at it
<siretart> seth_k: did you test your package? does it work?
<seth_k> siretart: indeed. 2 up-to-date breezy systems
<siretart> great! :)
<seth_k> siretart, I also used the same source and backported it to hoary, and tested successfully on 3 hoary systems
<seth_k> so source is surely good
<siretart> did you happen to check your version agains the bugs listed at http://bugs.debian.org/zsnes
<siretart> ok
<seth_k> siretart, i did not. Shall I compare changelog to buglist?
<siretart> seth_k: if you want to do the debian maintainer a favor, yes ;)
<siretart> seth_k: I see that parts of zsnes are written in c++
<seth_k> ah, and C++ is restricted right now
<seth_k> ok
<siretart> uploads of c++ applications are restricted for breezy
<siretart> yepp
<siretart> I'm checking it anyway right now, just a moment
<herve> hello
<bddebian> Heya herve
<seth_k> siretart, this package closes debian bugs 293061, 309347, 301611
<siretart> :)
<seth_k> siretart, I believe the other three bugs are debian-specific because they are not reproducible on my system after following the steps specified
<siretart> seth_k: ok, so, please update the changelog, stating that this package closes the given bugs, and give the it the version number 1.420-0ubuntu1
<siretart> that way, we can adopt the debian version more easily if necessary
<seth_k> got it
<herve> seth_k, I haven't followed, but I hope you reported your patches to debian?
<seth_k> while I have a smart person here, when I run "dch" my e-mail address is filled out as seth@localhost.localdomain... do you know offhand where to change that? ;)
<siretart> references in the changelog of 'our' (the ubuntu package) should make it more easy for Aaron to adopt the changes
<tseng> set DEBEMAIL
<tseng> in bashrc
<seth_k> ah ha, thank you sir
<siretart> yepp, tseng is faster ;)
<siretart> I think $EMAIL would be a fallback
<abelli> ciao
<siretart> hi abelli
<abelli> siretart .. are you aware of any problem with hp pavilion's?
<abelli> siretart: ciaaoooooo ..
<siretart> seth_k: btw, it is zsnes_1.420.orig.tar.gz, not zsnes-1.420.orig.tar.gz ;)
<seth_k> ;) I'll learn, if slowly
<siretart> abelli: sorry, I'm not at linuxtag
<seth_k> i've repackaged quite a bit of stuff, but this was my first patched app
<siretart> seth_k: we all were beginners ;)
<seth_k> siretart, ubuntu has the best community i've ever found
<abelli> siretart: thx anyway.
<seth_k> siretart, the amount of support to help people get started contributing is amazing
<seth_k> and I thank you for that. I've been having a lot of fun
<siretart> seth_k: are you interested in joining Motu (or espc the MOTUGames Team)? ;)
<tseng> siretart: does he have a choice?
<seth_k> siretart, I do not think I'm knowledgable enough yet
<seth_k> but I would love to get deeper into helping maintain Ubuntu
<seth_k> I've been packaging backports recently, since that's not too difficult and I know how
<siretart> there are a lot of tasks to be done, which are not that hard to learn
<siretart> seth_k: If you think you have something which is worth uploading, just ping me or some other MOTU in this channel to get your package reviewed. If good, we will upload it to universe
<seth_k> siretart, I would be excited to help in whatever way I can
<siretart> :)
<seth_k> uploading the changed files here in a sec
<seth_k> thank you for helping me out so readily, I was a bit nervous :P
<herve> do you know how to unblock a stuck cursor?
<herve> (sounds strange, I know)
<jamessan|work> ctrl-q  ?
<siretart> herve: random guess: CTRL-q
<jamessan|work> heh
<jamessan|work> maybe he didn't mean in a terminal
<herve> silly X
<seth_k> siretart, everything is uploaded
<seth_k> siretart, http://sethkinast.com/ubuntu/breezy/zsnes/
<siretart> seth_k: the diff.gz is missing
<seth_k> heh, sorry
<seth_k> one more second
<siretart> oh, I see now, you accidentally turned your package to a native one
<seth_k> >_<
<herve> ouch!
<jamessan|work> make sure the orig tar.gz is named as package_version.orig.tar.gz
<jamessan|work> that's bitten me a few times
* siretart too
<seth_k> okay, I think this is biting me because I both updated to new upstream, and patched. I'll symlink zsnes_1.420-0ubuntu1.orig.tar.gz to zsnes_1.420.orig.tar.gz?
<seth_k> or is there a better way
<siretart> no. thats not a good idea, i think
<jamessan|work> yeah, that's what uscan usually does
<jamessan|work> wait, you don't need the -0ubuntu1, do you?
<seth_k> well, I made changes beyond just merging upstream source
<siretart> dpkg-buildpackage should recognize ../zsnes_1.420.orig.tar.gz and build a non native package
<seth_k> even though my version is -0ubuntu1?
<siretart> seth_k: that doesn't matter. your changes will appear in the diff.gz
<jamessan|work> seth_k: yeah, but it's the *orig* tarball, so that's not going to change
<siretart> that doesn't matter at all
<jamessan|work> its version is 1.420
<jamessan|work> and will stay that no matter what rev the Ubuntu/Debian package is
<seth_k> okay, I think I've got it now
<seth_k> yes, this looks much better! here it comes
<herve> DanielN, ready to sign when?
<seth_k> apologies for the runaround
<siretart> ah, I see a .diff.gz :)
<seth_k> and the .dsc file is right this time around too :)
<siretart> :)
<seth_k> okay, upload complete
* seth_k crosses fingers...
* siretart starts pbuilder..
<siretart> gnarf.. /me updates pbuilder ;)
* seth_k updates too
* seth_k does NOT like to see all the C++ packages being updated :/
<siretart> seth_k: your package looks fine, I would upload it, it it wasn't the C++ freeze now
<seth_k> i understand
<seth_k> how long does the freeze last?
<seth_k> since the g++ transition is done iirc
<siretart> seth_k: as soon as every package from here is transitioned: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCxxTransition
<siretart> ;)
<siretart> err https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CxxLibraryList thats the right one
<seth_k> haha
<seth_k> ok :) thank you for taking so much time to help me out
<siretart> sorry, I can't give you a better date. but its our priority atm
<siretart> you're welcome
<siretart> thank you for your contribution!
<seth_k> where in your opinion is the place to try to get involved right now? I'm a good repackage-monkey, at least :P
<seth_k> or is it better to hold off right now
<siretart> I think the best way to help us ATM would be to help with the CXX Transition
<siretart> often it's not that hard as it sounds
<thesaltydog> tseng, ??
<seth_k> is that just rebuilding the stuff listed there? (if you need to get back to work, I can find somewhere else to get my questions answered)
<tseng> thesaltydog, ??
<thesaltydog> tseng, do you have a minute?
<tseng> yes
<thesaltydog> I have updated my source code, so I made a new bum_1.3.0.orig.tar.gz file
<thesaltydog> cleaned the directory, and changed the source
<siretart> seth_k: in principle, its just rebuilding. but you have to look at the build dependencies, rename the binary package and check the shlibs file
<thesaltydog> why do I have such entries in diff.gz file:
<siretart> seth_k: sometime it also involves adapting the debian/rules, but usually its not that hard
<thesaltydog> --- bum-1.3.0.orig/debian/compat
<thesaltydog> +++ bum-1.3.0/debian/compat
<thesaltydog> I don't have the 7debian dir in orig file
<siretart> seth_k: look at the descriptions above, and at some bugzilla bugs, espc the debdiffs included there
<tseng> you arent supposed to have debian in the orig
<tseng> its part of the diff
<thesaltydog> in fact I don't
<thesaltydog> so you mean that that's no problem having /debian dir entries in diff.gz?
<tseng> thats how its supposed to be
<siretart> thesaltydog: you needed a german before?
<tseng> .orig.tar.gz is the source code exactly as you got it from the upstream
<thesaltydog> oh, I believe it makes the diff quite unreadable
<tseng> same md5 and everything
<thesaltydog> siretart, I found him, thanks!
<tseng> eh if you cant read the diff unpack the source and read debian/
<siretart> ok :)
<herve> thesaltydog, your diff.gz is telling right
<ivoks> 'evening
<herve> yo ivoks
<tseng> dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
<seth_k> siretart, I will do research then :)
<thesaltydog> herve, thanks
<tseng> will unpack the orig and apply the diff
<seth_k> siretart, last question and then I will leave you alone :P
<ivoks> with this new networkmanager, wifi-radar is obsolete
<tseng> ivoks: it actually works?
<seth_k> siretart, should I keep that zsnes stuff uploaded, or will you handle it from here?
<ivoks> tseng: yeah
<tseng> ivoks: GIMME
<ivoks> tseng: this on i have is very very buggy
<herve> I remember some diffs telling "--- /dev/null" for new files
<herve> this looks more readable for me
<tseng> ivoks: the package, or the software
<ivoks> tseng: but i was told we can expect networkmanager next week in breezy
<tseng> oh
<tseng> thom++
<thesaltydog> herve, ok. I'll keep it
<seth_k> networkmanager *drool*
<ivoks> ++++
<siretart> seth_k: I have a copy here, but I will ping you again before uploading. If I forget that, please ping me ;)
<seth_k> okay :) have a wonderful evening and thank you again!
<siretart> +^\infinity
<ivoks> tseng: if you still want deb...
<siretart> seth_k: you're welcome :)
<herve> ivoks, wifi-radar can co-exist with networkmanager
<ivoks> herve: sure it can
<siretart> ivoks: what wifi chipset do you use? madwifi? prism?
<ivoks> http://people.ubuntu.com/~thom/network-manager/
<ivoks> siretart: ipw2200
<siretart> ah, ok. ic
<ivoks> these are unstable, obsolete, unsuported repositorys
<tseng> ivoks: hm do you know when that was updated
<ivoks> do not use them
<ivoks> tseng: ages ago :)
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> i used them then
<tseng> made a few bug fixes so the thing worked at all
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> for me it works like this:
<ivoks> notification starts (without icons) and runs untill IP is asked from DHCP
<ivoks> then, it gets IP and crashes :)
<tseng> http://people.redhat.com/dcbw/NetworkManager/0.4/
<tseng> this is relatively recent
<ivoks> yeah... rpms
<tseng> and a tar
<ivoks> yes
<siretart> ivoks: does nm has wpa support already?
<ivoks> siretart: don't know
<ivoks> wifi-radar has :)
<siretart> it has?!
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu
<tseng> it configures
<tseng> we'll see what happens next
<ivoks> hm, not for me, on hoary
<tseng> well i needed to add build-deps
<tseng> im building the source
<siretart> grad.hr seems to be offline
<ivoks> siretart: yeah, power failure
<ivoks> siretart: do you accept dcc send?
<siretart> should work, mail preferred, but dcc is also ok
<ivoks> my mail is offline now :(
<ivoks>  DCC SEND request sent to siretart: wifi-radar_1.9.4-0ubuntu2_all.deb
<herve> see you later
<ivoks> tseng: build failed? :)
<siretart> ivoks: did something got sent?
<siretart> 22:06:42 [Freenode]  DCC SEND from ivoks [192.168.0.100 port 32789] : wifi-radar_1.9.4-0ubuntu2_all.deb [29kB] 
<siretart> ivoks: I cannot receive from 192.168.0.100 ;)
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> siretart: mail? :)
<siretart> my hostmask: siretart@tauware.de
<ivoks> there it goes
<ivoks> you got mail
<siretart> thanks
<ivoks> stoopid d-link's NAT
<ivoks> siretart: is it ok?
<siretart> ivoks: I still try to figure out what wpa modes it supports
<siretart> I see that it has wpa support. thats great
<siretart> does this deb work on hoary or does it need breezy?
<ivoks> both
<siretart> hui
<siretart> ivoks: do you use it with wpa?
<ivoks> no
<ivoks> could you test it for me? :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-23
<tseng> muine uploaded!
<Unfrgiven> morning all
<tseng> hi
<binbrain> I'm setup with Breezy on pbuilder, it finishes DLing everything and then it starts spitting out libstd++5.3.3-dev leaving unconfigured
<seth_k> did you set up a Hoary chroot and then update to Breezy like I mentioned?
<seth_k> apparently that's what you're supposed to do
<binbrain> nono
<binbrain> i just tried from scratch
<seth_k> hmm
<binbrain> set up pbuilder to breezy and then pbuilder create
<seth_k> yeah
<binbrain> so I should do hoary 1st and then move to breezy
<seth_k> I would try it the other way, hoary then update
<seth_k> yep
<binbrain> aight
<binbrain> thanks
<seth_k> did you see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<binbrain> yeah
<seth_k> ok
<seth_k> it shows how to update from a Hoary to a Breezy chroot
<binbrain> the bottom part shows the update
<seth_k> yep
<binbrain> but it didn't mention that you couldn't start from fresh with breezy
<seth_k> I know, I did the same thing you did
<seth_k> until I got told that you were supposed to go Hoary -> Breezy
<binbrain> and it didn't work
<binbrain> ok
<binbrain> ok
<diamond> nite folks
<tseng> any muine fans about?
<ivoks> :)
<tseng> install muine-plugin-trayicon and muine-plugin-inotify
<tseng> great stuff
<ivoks> i'm in windows now :(
<tseng> wth
<ivoks> i need autocad to do some project for faculty
<ivoks> and that one runs only on windows :(
<\sh> morning
<whiprush> tseng: they still haven't shown up for me. I'll try them as soon as they hit my mirror
<Unfrgiven> \sh: hey dude
<HostingGeek> \sh: not working at m$ yet :devil:
<eruin> anyone packaging istanbul in here?
<HostingGeek> No way
<HostingGeek> what crazy person is going to package a island
<\sh> HostingGeek: what?
<\sh> hey Unfrgiven
<eruin> if you're gonna be like that; it's a city ;o
<eruin> http://live.gnome.org/Istanbul
<HostingGeek> what crazy person is going to package a city
<Unfrgiven> \sh: thanks for the libflash stuff
<\sh> Unfrgiven: u r welcome :)
* eruin slaps HostingGeek ;)
<ivoks> \sh: it's 5AM :)
<\sh> yes...and it was a hard day yesterday, so i was sleeping since 8pm and since 3am I just woke up...
<\sh> ivoks: I'm an old man ;)
<Unfrgiven> three smilies in a row... we really are a happy bunch here arent we ;)
<ivoks> \sh: i'm up since 2:30 :)
<\sh> ivoks: why that?
<ivoks> i needed to finish some drawings :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: did you get my messages?
<\sh> via IM?
<Unfrgiven> \sh: irc /msg
<seth_k> eruin: dholbach has packaged it
<seth_k> eruin, just today actually. you want a link?
<\sh> hmmm....patching source in the early morning is not a good way to start the day...:(
<seth_k> aw, what are you patching?
<\sh> snmpkit
<\sh> fixed and uploaded ;)
<seth_k> woo
<ivoks> bye all
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: cya
<\sh> ok snacc is also patched and uploaded
<schweeb> whats up all
<\sh> it's early in the morning
<\sh> hmmm..it looks like that i can resolve my last outstanding packages
<\sh> libtool: install: error: cannot install `libcppsctpsocket.la' to a directory not ending in /tmp/buildd/socketapi-1.3.2/static/lib
<\sh> as i said, it's early in the morning..even libtool is sleeping ;)
<mbeattie> This is a dumb question but to get a package into universe do you need to know that it will work on x86, x86-64 and ppc?
<mbeattie> and what if it doesnt work on one of those archs?
<seth_k> no, you don't need to have all archs
<seth_k> I just submitted a package that is x86-only, because it's about 3/4 386 assembly
<\sh> let's say: it depends
<Lathiat> seth_k: ooc, whats that?:)
<\sh> socketapi patched, fixed and uploaded
<seth_k> Lathiat, ?
<Lathiat> seth_k: what package
<seth_k> oh
<seth_k> new upstream version of zSNES
<seth_k> yay for bypassing debian
<seth_k> Lathiat, breezy had 1.3.6 and debian had 1.4.0, i went upstream and yoinked 1.4.2. Had to patch it some to make it build
<Lathiat> ah zsnes
* \sh is playing "You're The One That I Want" by Olivia Newton John on The Definitive Collection
<\sh> and having a shower :)
* jsgotangco looks at \sh in a strange way
<Lathiat> \sh: and typing on your computer?
<jsgotangco> (at least its not Xanadu)
<Lathiat> and then they told apple to piss off? :)
<Lathiat> wrong channel
* \sh is multitasking ;)
<\sh> and every single time when I'm listening to this song, I singing "Die Wanne ist Voll" (The Bathtub is Full), it was a comedy song of Dieter Hallervorden and Helga Veddersen (late 70th early 80th) to this melody
<\sh> going to office...cu later dudes
<\sh> re
<danieln> hi all
<jsgotangco> hi
<\sh> hehe..this si funny...usb2 hd on my laptop, started samba, copying from another laptop with windows os over netbios shares to this hd...and everything is working
<danieln> morning
<\sh> hey danieln
<danieln> \sh: hi :)
<\sh> danieln: could u please fill in the gaps of https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11387 and https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11403
<\sh> danieln: if u have some problems with those packages, bug me on IM :)
<danieln> \sh: well i'm not at work, i'm in school (berufsschule)... so, i'll check that later
<\sh> danieln: k :)
<danieln> mhmh
<danieln> was herve around yesterday?
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> i don't get it
<\sh> doko: ping
<doko> \sh: pong
<danieln> have to go
<danieln> cya all
<\sh> doko: running into problems with gettextize and ac* and autoconf stuff
<\sh> grmf
<\sh> new upstream package
<\sh> now...new version of sdcv
<lesliev> Hi ppl
<lesliev> If I want to add a file to a package and then rubuild it with debuild, I get "unrepresentable changes to source"
<lesliev> How do I get around that
<\sh> lesliev: only in the upstream package
<\sh> u have to put it in the orig.tar.gz or as patch in debian/patches
<ogra> you need to build a new source package first.... if you just change the contents of the tgz that wont work
<\sh> brb...upgrade to breezy
<doko> \sh: please could you update the djvulibre patch in bugzilla as well?
<\sh> ok...updated to breezy...what was the fix to get rid of this "no fixed font installed" issue to start X again?
<\sh> ok..breezy update from hoary worked quite good
<DanielN> uehh
<DanielN>  [ lesliev      ]  [ spacey      ]  [ zul         ] 
<DanielN> 15:45 [ Firetech   ]  [ mbeattie     ]  [ stazz       ]  [ |QuaD-      ] 
<tseng> hello to you too
<DanielN> oups
<DanielN> hi tseng
<\sh> DanielN: i've updated some of your packages...please have a look into the debdiffs (already in bugzilla) so u know what's important for transition :)
<DanielN> \sh: thanks .. such a reference is helpful for me!
<DanielN> mutt
<DanielN> lol
<DanielN> :)
<\sh> ok...going home..cu later dudes
<DanielN> 15 mins left here..
<DanielN> boring subject atm :/
<DanielN> yeeha
<DanielN> finished school
<DanielN> cya later :)
<Riddell> should debian/README.Debian be changed to debian/README.Ubuntu ?
<ivoks> no
<siretart> Riddell: only in addition to README.Debian, to document your ubuntu specific changes.
<siretart> hi folks
<Riddell> siretart: it's a new package
<ivoks> they should only conatin README.Debian, IMHO
<ivoks> you don't need two changes files
<Riddell> I ment instead of README.Debian
<ivoks> my personal opinion is that we should differe as little is posibble from debian
<ivoks> we don't have big team as Debian has and we should stop importing new packages in ubuntu, IMHO
<siretart> Riddell: no. we respect the debian packaging policy
<ivoks> but, meeting is 20.06. so I guess we will talk about that
<Riddell> ivoks: what's this meeting?
<ivoks> MOTU meeting
<Riddell> you want to discuss stopping important new packages?
<Riddell> s/important/importing/
<tseng> we want to discuss not having a large delta with debian
<tseng> the solution is to be determined
<ivoks> not stoping, but doing it in different way
<ivoks> tseng: right
<ivoks> tseng: does MOTU provides securoty updates for universe packages in hoary?
<tseng> there is a universe security team
* tseng points at Nafallo 
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> maybe we could use debian's somehow?
<Nafallo> ivoks: we do. we take their patches ;-)
<ivoks> Nafallo: :)
<ivoks> i tought in other way...
<Nafallo> hehe
<ivoks> security updates rearly change configurations
<ivoks> they only change binarys
<ivoks> so, there is no point in having two security repositorys for same thing
<ivoks> IMHO, IHMO!!! :))
<ivoks> well, i'm not planing to fight anymore for my upload rights, i will just help MOTU as much as I can this way
<ivoks> so, I'll be very loud on meeting, even if I'm not old member and neither full MOTU member :)
<\sh> re
<ivoks> hi \sh
<\sh> hey ivoks
<ivoks> apt-get install kubuntu-desktop :)
<\sh> ivoks: i did the upgrade to breezy earlier on :)
<ivoks> and? any problems?
<\sh> not really...X and fonts, and kde had some pitfalls...but nothing what noone could resolve
<ivoks> so, you don't have hoary anymore?
<\sh> right
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> well, we should start using breezy
<ivoks> to check problems in day-to-day work
<\sh> that was my reason
<ivoks> i'll do it to :)
<ivoks> i allready did it
<ivoks> then got back to hoary :)
<ivoks> brb
<ivoks> ok, KDE
<ivoks> urgh.... uglly :(
<\sh> what?
<ivoks> kde
<ivoks> i don't like kde
<ivoks> to... plastic :)
<siretart> hm. the problem is, I need my notebook urgently..
<ivoks> hhm... ETA 12h
* \sh is ill...this morning olivia newton-john and now lobo
<ivoks> \sh: there is no blender in breezy?!
<ivoks> there is... hm...
<ivoks> lol... apt-cache search bledner :)
<ivoks> ok, time to leave it downloading...
<ivoks> see you later...
<\sh> DanielN_PD: ping
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<Burgundavia> ogra, is that you cleaning out NewPackages that I see there?
<ogra> nope
<Burgundavia> just seen a fair number of things with "initial release" int he changelog
<ogra> Burgundavia, that for edubuntu
<ogra> thats even
<ivoks> hi
<ogra> Burgundavia, how high is your boredom level ?
<ogra> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuData
<ogra> ;)
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> anybody hiring? I need a job
<Burgundavia> but I can play with that
<ogra> just if you dont have to do anything else, i didnt mean to push you to it :)
<Burgundavia> I really actually should be looking for employment
<ivoks> ogra: i have 3 years of expirience of Linux in classroom, maybe i could help with edubuntu?
<ogra> ivoks, sure
<ivoks> edubuntu should implement openldap
<ogra> ivoks, i'm currently fixing this list of packages, to build a ltsp liveCD with that next week
<Burgundavia> screw openldap
<ogra> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDesktop
<Burgundavia> it should use that new fedora directory server
<ivoks> without it, it would be PITA to maintain it
<ivoks> Burgundavia: or that
<Burgundavia> I asked if someone could package it for breezy in my blog
<ivoks> Burgundavia: but will we know everything about that DS untill breezy?
<ogra> Burgundavia, for now it will use our new ltsp packages... whic use ldap
<ivoks> cfengine2 comes to mind too
<Burgundavia> ivoks, it is already releaed, and based on the quite nice Netscape stuff
* ogra shudders
<Burgundavia> from what I understand, it is far more scalable than Open
* ogra whispers "cfengine"
<ivoks> Burgundavia: i didn't try it, i used openldap only
<tseng> mm cfengine
<ivoks> ogra: cfengine/cfengine2
<ogra> ivoks, no cfengine at all
<ivoks> heh
<ogra> the only way to go....
<ivoks> nfs?
<ogra> (even if i have no idea how to solve it yet
<ogra> )
<ogra> sure
<ogra> nfs homes at least
<ivoks> nfs has lots of pitfalls
<ivoks> for example, you need /var/lib/gdm for every machine
<ivoks> i have 60 computers with root-nfs
<ogra> ivoks, mdz cares for that.... i can only grab the ready made packages
<ivoks> next year, there will be only /home
<ivoks> ok, i'll check and read edubuntu.org
<ivoks> and make a list of proposals
<ivoks> based on expirience
<ogra> i care for the assembly of all of that and for http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDesktop for now.... as well as for http://www.edubuntu.org/TeachersPet
<ogra> i hope to have a liveCD ready until the first weekend of july
<ivoks> uh
<ogra> so you can boot a server from it and netboot the classroom clients
<ogra> as a showroom release
<ogra> later we can just put UbuntuExpress on top of it and have the first edubuntu install CD
<ogra> first target for the first edubuntu release is to be able to equip one classroom out of the box.... with as less work for the teacher as possible
<ivoks> uh
<ivoks> i hope you worked on edubuntu for a long time :)
<ogra> the next ones should have server clustering support and probably also use a cluster filesystem instead of NFS
<ivoks> ok, that setup i have
<ivoks> openmosix in classroom
<ogra> i want something easier....
<ivoks> easier?
<ogra> imagine you have installed one classroom with edubuntu to test it....
<ivoks> what could be easier than that?
<ivoks> ok...
<ogra> the test went fine and you want to put it in the other rooms too
<ivoks> ok...
<ogra> you install it in the other rooms, the servers recognize each other automatically....
<ivoks> ok...
<ogra> ...and sync their data automatically.... without you doing anything
<ogra> thats my targt
<ogra> target
<ivoks> well, you can't have everything automaticly
<ivoks> you will need to allow first server to share date to other server
<ogra> i want it.... if i cant get it, i have to invent i....
<ogra> it even
<ivoks> but, user will have to do something
<ogra> why ?
<ivoks> at least allow syncing
<ivoks> maybe he wants two independet classrooms
<ogra> sure... you can have a popup on the admin workstation.... asking you
<ivoks> maybe he doesn't trust other server
<ivoks> maybe that other server isn't his server
<ogra> then he doesnt need to connect them
<ivoks> true
<ivoks> it has to trigger something
<ivoks> it can't be fully automaticly
<ogra> sure... but all this is solvable
<ivoks> at least, enter IP or something
<ogra> it can
<ivoks> it is...
<ivoks> well, you need java in classrooms too :)
<ogra> yup... thats another problem...
<ogra> even flash .... in norway all the tests ate flash forms
<ogra> are
<ogra> which is very odd
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> you need flash, java and realplayer
<ivoks> divx too
<ogra> divx ? what for ?
<ivoks> i know, odd, but, belive me, you need that
<ivoks> ffmpeg
<ogra> hmm
<ivoks> it doesn't have to be divix, ffmpeg is enough
<ivoks> for some animations
<ivoks> divix is very popular these days
<ogra> sure.... but i dont want to produce a movie machine
<ivoks> i know
<ogra> and i dont want to duplicate a single program, so only one video player by default
<ivoks> xine
<ivoks> :)
<tseng> dude kids at school dont need to watch wmv
<ivoks> totem-xine or gxine
<tseng> on their favorite porn sites
<ogra> i dont need to have every program on the CD, you'll have the whole ubuntu universe available
<ivoks> tseng: i agree
<ogra> (and multivers)
<tseng> so they can use gstreamer
<tseng> and ffmpeg
<ogra> yeps
<tseng> and get over it
<tseng> proprietary_codecs--
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> i run classrom on linux
<ivoks> so i know what teachers need
<ivoks> well, maybe my teachers are bad
<ivoks> you must have java, and thats proprietary
<ivoks> if you don't include java, project will be failure :(
<ogra> ivoks, but it must not be installed by default....
<ivoks> i know ubuntu policy
<ogra> as long as its a one click install to get it for the whole classroom
<ivoks> that's why edubuntu is hard job...
<ogra> nah
<ivoks> ogra: yeah, it could be done with one click :)
<ivoks> heh, we will need super teacher tool then :)
<ogra> i'm just starting ;)
<ogra> http://www.edubuntu.org/TeachersPet
<ivoks> ogra: i saw that one :)
<ivoks>  item locking for every individual client - uh!
<ogra> you mean the menu stuff ?
<ivoks> yes
<ogra> :)
<ivoks> Burgundavia: do you have link for that redhats directory server?
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> fedora.org :)
<ivoks> directory.fedora.redhat.com
<Burgundavia> yes
<herve> houba!
<ogra> hi herve
<ivoks> herve: !!
<bddebian> Heya herve
<bddebian> I just ordered my second Stinkpad so hopefully I can get to Ubuntu packages relatively soon!!??
<ivoks> from lenovo?
<ivoks> Burgundavia: heh, this is LDAP :)
<Burgundavia> yes, that is why I suggested we replace Open with it
<ivoks> ok, it shouldn't have too much new stuff to learn :)
<doko> ivoks: gcj is java
<ivoks> doko: i ment java on web pages
<ivoks> runtime
<ogra> doko, many of the edu apps are web applets
<ivoks> for example, web interface of Mathematica
<ivoks> ogra: edubuntu logo - not bad, not bad at all
<ogra> ivoks, there are a lot i dont like.... but also very good ones
<ogra> my favorite is #8
<ivoks> i saw only one
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> the pdf has 9 pages :)
<ivoks> lol, more than one :)
<ivoks> 4 sucks :(
<ivoks> 8 is good
* Burgundavia has posted his feel good post of the day
<ogra> i like the idea of #4 it just looks bad in this design
<ivoks> 1, 5, 7 and 8
<ivoks> too much black in 4
<ogra> yep
<Burgundavia> where are these log ideas?
<Burgundavia> s/log/logo
<Burgundavia> never mind
<chillywilly> farking egg
<chillywilly> hey people I noticed a while back that sarge was released (yea I was late to the game)....any thoughts on that :)
<bddebian> chillywilly!!!!
<Burgundavia> hmm, I had a thought with the logo
<Burgundavia> the picture + ed looks a bit like it is trying to be a word
<Burgundavia> such as /.ed
<ogra> Mr. ed
<bddebian> chillywilly: Yeah, congrats to Debian, too bad it's about 2 years too late.. ;-P
<Burgundavia> I really like 1
<chillywilly> yea there would've been 3 Ubuntu releases
<Burgundavia> clear colours
<chillywilly> in the time it took them to do 1
<tseng> i like page  8
<bddebian> chillywilly: :-)
<Burgundavia> but what does the person waving really mean?
<tseng> he is raising his hand
<tseng> like in a class
<Burgundavia> ah
<bddebian> chillywilly: So, are you an MOTU yet?? ;-)
<chillywilly> nope
<bddebian> loser.. ;-P
<chillywilly> are you?
<chillywilly> well?
<bddebian> No, I'm as useless here as everywhere else.. :-)
<chillywilly> ok then
<chillywilly> he that has no sin cast the first stone
<chillywilly> *thwap*
<bddebian> Plus I have a dead laptop..  All I have left are Hurd boxen. :-)
<ogra> bddebian, so start proting ubuntu to hurd then
<bddebian> ogra: It's on my list
<ogra> ok
<Burgundavia> I had a thought about number 8
<Burgundavia> what about droping the other 2 (black) people
<bddebian> RACIST
<tseng> Nafallo: how do I start the NM icon thingy
<Burgundavia> and just having the figure raising its hands
<ogra> tseng, applet
<Nafallo> tseng: nm-applet
* chillywilly is black ;)
<bddebian> heh
<chillywilly> cause I am a penGNUin
<chillywilly> well I play one on IRC anyway
<Nafallo> *sigh* right now I hate nm ;-)
<Nafallo> I can't reach my internal dns :-P
<ivoks> nm rocks :)
<Nafallo> and it eates 100% CPU when I plug a networkcable in ;-)
<ivoks> :))
<ogra> Nafallo, stay wireless ;)
<Nafallo> cause it can't find my dhclient and tries again.
<Nafallo> ogra: well, it can't connect to my wireless :-P
<ogra> hmm, thats bad... fix it :)
<ivoks> Nafallo: where did you get NM?
<ogra> ivoks, its in
<Nafallo> ivoks: archive.ubuntu.com :-)
<ivoks> YAY!
<ivoks> i have ETA 2 hours for downloading rest of breezy :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> network-manager - <insert up to 60 chars description>
<ivoks> :)
<Nafallo> hahaha
<Nafallo> I need thom :-P
<ivoks> wait
<ivoks> that's not from archive.ubuntu.com
<ivoks> accutally, it isn't in breezy right now, isn't it?
<Nafallo> ivoks: yes it is
<ivoks> i updatet repos 3 hours ago
<Nafallo> network-manager:
<Nafallo>   Installerad: 0.4.1+cvs20050616-1
<Nafallo>   Kandidat: 0.4.1+cvs20050616-1
<Nafallo>   Versionstabell:
<Nafallo>  *** 0.4.1+cvs20050616-1 0
<Nafallo>         500 http://darkelf breezy/universe Packages
<ivoks> darkelf? :)
<Nafallo> well, it went in less than an hour ago :-)
<Nafallo> yepp :-)
<ivoks> ok then
<ivoks> update again :)
<Nafallo> ahh, oops. apt-catcher ;-)
<ivoks> Nafallo: gnome part is in network-manager package?
<Nafallo> ivoks: gnome part as in nm-applet yes.
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks>  /usr/sbin/hald: unrecognized option `--drop-privileges'
<ivoks> hal not started... hm...
<Nafallo> wfm
<ivoks> network-manager depends on bind9.
<ivoks> WHAT?!
<Nafallo> ivoks: exactly...
<ivoks> why?
<Nafallo> ivoks: caching dns :-P
<ivoks> on name service server?
<Nafallo> ivoks: the damn thing doesn't find my internal domain :-P
<ivoks> :)
<plugwash> debian dependencies can be a bit ott sometimes
<Nafallo> plugwash: this is ubuntu deps ;-)
<plugwash> afaict ubuntu is mainly an alternate release process for debian
<Nafallo> oh? is network-manager in debian?
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> and what about wifi-radar? :)
<ivoks> gnome 2.11?:)
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> 2.11.3 :-)
<ivoks> hm, hal doesn't start anymore
<Nafallo> strange...
<Nafallo> wfm @ amd64 ;-)
<Burgundavia> ogra, what did you do that logo in?
<ogra> Burgundavia, i didnt....
<ogra> Burgundavia, canonical asked someone, i dont know him/her
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> andyfitz maybe?
<ogra> nope, i dont think so
<ivoks> ok, works now
<ivoks> killall -9 hald :)
<Burgundavia> anyboyd having menus not updating in Breezy?
<ogra> ivoks, eeek
<ogra> ivoks, dont do that
<ogra> ivoks, sudo /etc/init.d/dbus-1 restart
<ivoks> ogra: yeah, that doesn't work :)
<ivoks> it stops
<ivoks> but hald is still runnning
<ogra> ivoks, and hal is up to date ?
<ivoks> so, kill them all :)
<ivoks> ogra: it's breezy
<ogra> ivoks, yes, here too.... all around me
<ivoks> ogra: i guess it didn't stop, so instance left haning
<ivoks> i stoped dbus and hal
<Burgundavia> ok, just a sanity check. I installed NM. it should now show up in the add to panel, no?
<ivoks> but that one left hanging...
<ivoks> kill fixed problem
<ogra> ah, ok... i normally reboot after an upgrade for the new kernel
<ivoks> well, nm doesn't show me ant network :(
<ivoks> any
<ivoks> No network devices found
<jdong> guys, Breezy's Muine needs a build-dep on gnome-icon-theme
<jdong> nvm, it says not to complain for two weeks
<jdong> sorry :)
<tseng> good catch
<tseng> eh
<tseng> why does it need that
<tseng> it builds just fine without it
<jdong> ./configure bombed out on my chroot asking for it
<Nafallo> jdong: it did not in my pbuilder.
<jdong> oops
<jdong> you guys already have it in as a dep
<jdong> disregard my stupidity :)
<Nafallo> jdong: k :-)
<jdong> I was forcing the build to continue because I though it was only bombing out on libdbus-1-cil, but there was gnome-icon-theme, too :)
<\sh> back from resting
<Nafallo> jdong: that's why you should use pbuilder ;-)
<Nafallo> \sh: n-m is in the archive ;-)
<\sh> n-m?
<jdong> lol, that's why I should avoid -d... ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: network-manager :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: ah yes, I saw it
<Nafallo> \sh: hates me though :-P
<\sh> well, i have some pitfalls in upgrading from hoary to breezy
<\sh> 1. overriding the already existing /etc/network/interfaces without asking
<\sh> 2. not taking all packages for upgrading..guessnet e.g. was not upgraded :(
<\sh> riddell: ping
<Riddell> \sh: yo
<\sh> Riddell: libqt3-mt-dev as suggests/recommends dep in kdevelop3, can't we make it as dependency?
<\sh> god bless me for dist-upgrading to breezy...now I see some really nasty package issues ;)
<herve> night all
<\sh> night herve
<Riddell> \sh: libqt3-mt-dev isn't a dependency, you might not be programming qt
<\sh> hmmm...correct...
<\sh> even if i'm not thinking about installing kdevelop for gtk programming ;)
<Lathiat> hmm, multisyncs evo2 plugin is b0rked
<\sh> anybody awake with upload rights to universe?
<Nafallo> yay!
<Nafallo> it's almost working :-P
<\sh> wow...
<\sh> the fonts are really nicer under breezy
<\sh> even the mix of gnome apps on kde
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-24
<\sh> ajmitch: ping
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ping
<\sh> Unfrgiven: pong
<Unfrgiven> hey dude
<Unfrgiven> \sh: got ur email
<Unfrgiven> \sh: jst got into work... :) ill take a look at gmetadom now
<\sh> ok :)
* seth_k is away: out
* seth_k is back.
<Unfrgiven> what does "CCDEPMODE = depmode=gcc3" mean in makefiles? im trying to build a package right now that seems to want gcc-3.4 and I have a feeling its because of the depmode
<plugwash> tried removing it and seeing what happens?
<Unfrgiven> not yet... the package has heaps of the instances
<|QuaD->  /topic
* schweeb pokes #ubuntu-devel
<schweeb> wake the hell up
<Unfrgiven> im having a problem with a package at the moment. when doing a pbuilder build, it fails as it can't find gcc-3.4. but the source doesnt have any reference to gcc-3.4. what gives?!?
<ivoks> i'm going slightly mad... :)
<\sh> "queen"
<\sh> morning ivoks
<ivoks> morning
<ivoks> "queer" :)
<\sh> no..."I#m going slightly mad" is a quote out of a queen song :)
<ivoks> i know :)
<ivoks> my brother is big fan... :)
* \sh too :)
<ivoks> omg
<ivoks> another one :)
<ivoks> sh you are from germany, right?
<\sh> ivoks: yes
<ivoks> you guys love ISDN there, as much as we love it here
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i don't know how to set up ISDN on 2.6 kernels :(
<\sh> ivoks: the last time i used isdn was 1999
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> i never used it... but i have one client that has dial-up system
<ivoks> and i can't get it work with 2.6
<\sh> with kernel 2.2 and isdn4linux and a leased isdn line :) so don't ask me about isdn...ping ogra..he's an ISDN fetishist ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ok
<ogra> \sh, what ?
<ivoks> ogra: do you use isdn with 2.6 kernel?
<siretart> ivoks: I read that hoarys kernel has some avm binary modules shipped. should work with them
<siretart> ivoks: if you cannot or don't want to use them, you would need the misdn kernel patch for kernel 2.6
<ivoks> heh... then it will be misdn
<ivoks> i used manna before
<ivoks> it loaded hisax modul which detected my ISDN card
<ivoks> now, hisax doesn't detect that same ISDN card
<siretart> yes, but is hisax working on 2.6 kernels at all? I read that is was not, (or at least is deprecated)
<siretart> ivoks: btw, I tried out wifi-radar. I had problems on my madwifi, when I try to connect, i don't get an ip address
<ogra> ivoks, i use isdn if its necessary (i.e. if i just moved house....) which wasnt the case since a year or so.... and i helped testing the binary AVM drivers for hoary, thats all i have to do with isdn
<ogra> ivoks, you dont want to use hiasx with a 2.6 kernel
<siretart> ivoks: so I had an iwevent running and inspected what was going on: each time the card got associated to an AP, it lost that association immediatly. I think thats a madwifi specific issue, will need to debug wifi-radar to see what it does.
<siretart> I also had a look at the wpa functionality: it requires the user to have a working /etc/wpasupplicant.conf. Then it could work (haven't tested it myself, but that approach could work)
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> then i will use 2.4 kernels for that for some time...
<ivoks> thanks guys
<ivoks> siretart: on ipw2200 works ok
<siretart> ivoks: I had the chance to let an ipw2100 user try it out. there I didn't see that problem
<siretart> ivoks: there was another one: when connecting to an AP: wifi-radar spit out an error message "Address could not be assigned" or something
<siretart> but the interface had an ip, and connection was there :)
<ivoks> ?
<siretart> strange, I was confused, too ;)
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> when i start programs with python i get:
<ivoks> 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
<ivoks> No installed Python found.
<ivoks> and that's in hoary...
<ogra> hey lesliev
<ogra> nice to see you
<Mez> me?
<Mez> aw thanks
<ogra> Mez, you too, yes *grin*
<lesliev> hey!
<ogra> lesliev, siretart is the guy to talk to about game fixes ;)
<lesliev> hiya siretart ;-)
<siretart> huhu lesliev
<siretart> :)
<lesliev> I have a .desktop and a icon for sopwith. My packaging attempts are not too good yet, but I have the files.
<lesliev> Do I upload them to malone?
<siretart> lesliev: you may upload them to malone, or mail them to me: siretart@tauware.de
<lesliev> BTW: in the .desktop I put sopwith in category ArcadeGame and that didn't seem to work. So I put it in 'Game'
* siretart is at lunch cu later
<lesliev> k
<\sh> ha lesliev
<\sh> "So tomorrow I sign the contract and then God-willing I will immediately start a C++ development contract"
<\sh> yes...thats what we need...c++ hackers...kde hackers ;)
* Lathiat laughs
<ogra> bah
<ogra> \sh, there is gtkmm, what for do we need KDE ?
<Lathiat> c++ is icky
<Lathiat> python is where its at
<Lathiat> .. running on mono :)
<ogra> yay
<\sh> ogra: I did the transition at least for one gtkmm version...it's a lot of stupid code in there ;)
<ogra> \sh, tell that to murrac ;)
<\sh> building c++ code from templates...*buah*
<ogra> \sh, and dont tell it to loud if dholbach is around, he's a murrac fanboy
<ogra> murrayc, sorry
<\sh> thats just like awk+sed+perl are creating mono bindings for oracle ;)
<\sh> actually i fixed it
<\sh> but anyways... lesliev is another potential supporter of my biltong ZA -> DE connection
<lesliev> ??
<\sh> lesliev: http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/18-Daylight-Robbery.html
<ogra> lesliev, he is looking for someone to send him tons of biltong....
<lesliev> ha!
<\sh> not only me :)
<ogra> \em thinks \sh should ask canonical for a bounty and payment in biltong
<\sh> ogra: ask mark the next time, to provide u with some gramms of biltong :) u will be an addict in no time :)
<ogra> emm... /me indeed....
<lesliev> I like the biltong mafia idea
<lesliev> Bootleg Biltong
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:tseng] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about X for the next 2 weeks
<tseng> unless your name is Nafallo and you feel the need to complain about the same things three times :)
<Lathiat> heh
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ogra] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about X for the next 2 weeks | no, we dont pay fixed packages in biltong
<\sh> hihihi
<lesliev> unfortunately I have never been to Germany and don't know anyone who goes regularly
<tseng> so that picture in your blog
<tseng> is disgusting
<lesliev> My brother is in the UK tho...
<\sh> lesliev: well...send it via uk to germany...no customs ;)
<lesliev> hehe
<lesliev> And how do I get tons of Biltong to the UK??
<\sh> lesliev: ship container airbus 380
<\sh> depends on you ;)
<lesliev> you have mad cow disease!
<ogra> heh
<Mithrandir> lesliev: that's not a problem unless you ship something back
<\sh> lesliev: I can provide good beer in return :)
<\sh> but no...u have good beer in za as well
<tseng> i dont imagine beer travels very well
<Mithrandir> it does, actually.
<Mithrandir> not pilsener and such, but real beer is fine.
<Mithrandir> IPA was developed to withstand the sea travel to India.
<\sh> Mithrandir: what is "real beer"?
<Mithrandir> IPA, porter, stouts, lots of ales.
* ogra tried the .no beer.... thats really good
<Mithrandir> bitter.
<lesliev> Seriously: I'll look into it. It can't be too hard.
<lesliev> I know a guy who does imports and exports into Africa
<Mithrandir> ogra: it _really_ depends.  The pilseners are sad and shitty.
<ogra> Mithrandir, i have no idea what was in the glass :) but it tasted very good
<\sh> lesliev: u read about the prices for biltong here in germany...it's ridiculus
<tseng> i know a guy you can send a medicine mask to
<Mithrandir> ogra: heh.
<tseng> it would validate his life
<\sh> ogra: .no beer? hahaha...u mean pee of an polarbear
<lesliev> Now biltong is about R75 per kilo, so a ton will come to R75000 without tax and duties.
<Mithrandir> ogra: I'll see if I can bring some _really_ nice beer for the next conf.
<lesliev> Cany uoi put that in my account so long?
<Mithrandir> \sh: we have some excellent beers too, but as I say, the lagers aren't much to look at.
<\sh> lesliev: so...less then 10 euros for 1kg of game chili biltong :)
<tseng> what do we need to fix to make apt not want to remove half my desktop?
<tseng> libx11?
<siretart> re
<siretart> lesliev: I got your mail, thank you for your contribution
<siretart> lesliev: when I get home, I will integrate them into sopwith and prepare an upload
<lesliev> siretart: cool! If it would not be too much trouble, could you write a little howto as you do it?
<lesliev> Or record your keys with screen or something and let me have that?
<lesliev> I am eager to be able to mod packages and reading the docs is taking so looong!
<lesliev> sh: I'm sure I can send you some biltong. I'll find out how to do it over the weekend.
<lesliev> email me your shipping address: leslie@camary.co.za
<siretart> lesliev: when I get home, yes. For now, you could look at the debian docs. try to dpkg-source -x package.dsc file, check out the files in debian/ and try to undestand them. the debian new maintainer guide should have all information you need (though it may be quite a big lecture ;))
<lesliev> I am half-way with the maint guide. It tells you to read a whole lot more docs. I'll read more tonight.
<siretart> you don't need to understand everything in the docs. they are more a reference than a tutorial or howto. but its good to know where to look if necessary
<siretart> perhaps I should write a wikipage PackageModificationHowto..
<lesliev> YAY!
<lesliev> I got stuck where you add files to a package - I ran debuild and it complained about that
<\sh> lesliev: don't worry about it :) next year I want to visit again ZA...so I will take some with me then :)
<lesliev> sh: ok ;-)
<lesliev> If you modify files I think it builds a diff package, but you can't add files
<ogra> lesliev, you can....
<ogra> lesliev, they way is just not easy or obvious
<\sh> hmmm..why has patrick his ubuntu cds and I don't have mine :(
<lesliev> well *that* needs to be in some doc
<lesliev> In fact, a usefule package modder's howto will need to include "making a new package", "changing and submitting a package" and, if different, "adding to an submitting a package"
<lesliev> Also: "repackaging an rpm" would be nice
<siretart> lesliev: perhaps you could provide a very raw template page, with the structure of the you would expect. I could then fill information and references where to look
<\sh> lesliev: adding to a package is done via upstream normally ;)
<siretart> lesliev: you can convert .rpms to .deb with alien
<lesliev> But not always - .desktop file case in point
<\sh> lesliev: oh...those things are easy
<lesliev> Alien works but you still need to play with things to make a proper deb package
<lesliev> I'll do the template, good idea. Where in the wiki should I put it?
<lesliev> Alien doesn't seem to do dependencies properly. I suppose it can't.
<lesliev> It also seems to trip up on install scripts a bit
<siretart> lesliev: I would suggest under "MOTU" - Useful Links for MOTU's
<lesliev> ok, I'll start the page over the weekend
<siretart> no, alien cannot consider dependencies correctly. you would have to repackage it to do it properly.
<siretart> great! :)
<tivek> hi all... sorry to if I'm barging in. I have a question about the gpib packages...
<Lathiat> How can I find out why libnss-mdns isn't being synced from sid?
<tseng> is there a thing for it in ~scott?
<Lathiat> nope
<Lathiat> if you mean people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/
<tseng> yes
<Lathiat> nerp
<Lathiat> tseng: so who do i ask?
<tseng> elmo.
<tseng> erm just ask him and he will respond later
<elmo> eh, it's not being auto-synced because the version has 'ubuntu' in it
<Lathiat> elmo: yeh i discovered the story
<Lathiat> jeff packaged it
<Lathiat> someone took that,  packaged it for debian
<Lathiat> and jeff hasnt updated it
<tseng> thats because jeff isnt a packager
<tseng> he just likes to pretend
<tseng> :D
<Lathiat> ;p
<\sh> fixing packages
<lesliev> gotta go: ;-)
<bddebian> Howdy
<\sh> ivoks: your openscenegraph is passed :)
<ivoks> i know :)
<ivoks> thanx
<ivoks> nice... whole mobile network collapsed
<ivoks> fscking A1 :(
<ivoks> yay!
<ivoks> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 98909 2005-06-16 17:20 /usr/include/X11/Xlib.h
<ivoks> hm... if fedora allready did release based on gcc/g++4
<ivoks> then they are loaded with patches :)
<ivoks> yuhu! blender compiled with gcc4, builded on i386
<ivoks> hi crimsun
<lesliev> ivoks: did you have to tweak it?
<ivoks> lesliev: i patched it
<ivoks> fedora has that simple patch for it
<ivoks> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-commits/2005-May/msg01024.html
<ivoks> oneliner
<lesliev> ah
<lesliev> good!
<\sh> re
<\sh> anyone with a ppc machine?
<ivoks> mope
<ivoks> nope
<jamessan|work> \sh: I have one at home
<\sh> jamessan|work: could u do me a favour?
<\sh> jamessan|work: get this hdf5 source package and try to build it from source for breezy
<jamessan|work> I can try that when I get home (in about 4 hours)
<\sh> would be very kind of u :)
<jamessan|work> lunch time
<\sh> so..and now I go and have a shower...and after that...going to an irish pub named jamessons :)
<siretart> hi folks
<siretart> I'm trying to fix sfs in breezy. I located the problem, /usr/bin/rpcgen does not create sourcefiles for consumption with gcc-4 :/
<siretart> how should I proceed?
<pef> hello !
<pef> Within few words, how can I help you ?
<ivoks> ?
<siretart> HA!
<siretart> it is an own, buggy rpc generator, and I think I located the bug
<bradb> have any of you guys entered malone via https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone ?
<bradb> just wondering if anyone has, and could describe to me a bit what they thought about the process of going from /malone to getting to the right place to search and report bugs on a thing
<Lathiat> bradb: well, for a start, theres no clear starting point for a search
<Lathiat> instead i have 2 half-search options (distro, assigned)
<Lathiat> after clicking down the distro line i learn i can search from there, but thats not entirely obvious,and what if i want to search among alldistros?
<Lathiat> bradb: also doing an advanced search cuasesa system error. ;)
<bradb> Lathiat: it does indeed. i have a fix for that that just needs to be rolled out
<bradb> Lathiat: interesting points about /malone. i feel the same way.
<Lathiat> the 2 options that are there arent so bad,but there should be a clear "search" option
<bradb> Lathiat: when you come to /malone, what are you expecting to do?
<Lathiat> bradb: search for my bug to see if its already reported
<tseng> when i come there i am expecting to click something like My Bugs and see the listing
<tseng> which works, but the wording of it seems odd
<bradb> like bugzilla eh
<tseng> #
<tseng> # Assigned Bug Reports - retrieve reports on bugs assigned to a specific person
<Lathiat> also under file bug, it says something about "CCmanually" if its a private bug, but theres no option on that page or CCing and thebutton says 'Add' which indicates to me that thats the last step
<tseng> i almost always want bugs assigned to *me*
<tseng> which is what it gives you
<tseng> but the wording is small
<Lathiat> yeh that page shows yours by default
<Lathiat> with a search
<Lathiat> that should be worded better
<Lathiat> the actual interface seems to be pretty cool tho
<tseng> "If you're not sure, start here."
<tseng> this is almost certainly wrong for "file a bug"
<Lathiat> yeh you should be searching
<tseng> in an ideal world everyone will search first thing
<Lathiat> perhaps enter the package nameand view recent reports,or popular reports
<tseng> both would be useful
<Lathiat> with the option to search further
<Lathiat> also when i login i specify 'lathiat@bur.st'
<Lathiat> but i seem indications about 'lathiat'
<Lathiat> like on the mybugs page, the deault assignee is 'lathiat'
<bradb> ah, yes
<tseng> ah we have a motu group now
<bradb> what about, say, https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs ? what are your thoughts on that page?
<tseng> oh wow
<tseng> hang on
<tseng> i did view distro bugs, right
<tseng> it shows me a big list
<tseng> i see a bug that belongs to me, and click it
<tseng> i have NFC how to assign it to myself
<tseng> do i "subscribe"?
<Lathiat> or "edit bug details"
<bradb> that's really confusing, indeed
<tseng> edit bug doesnt help
<bradb> i'd say the same thing if i were you guys ;)
<Lathiat> hehe
* Lathiat ponders if editing bugs is the best idea
<tseng> can i get a clue? :P
<tseng> bradb: but dude i like that second view much better
<Lathiat> like, people could mess with bugs,and updates really shouldbe in comments no?
<tseng> bradb: as a maintainer
<bradb> tseng: gimme an example bug and let's walk through it
<tseng> 1028
<bradb> or rather, you walk me through it
<bradb> ok, 1028
<tseng> ok, i told you how i got here
<tseng> from there I clicked edit bug
<tseng> and am now "stuck"
<bradb> tseng: look at the "Needs fixing in..." part of the page
<tseng> see it
<bradb> tseng: talk to me about that part of the page
<tseng> ok so its not obvious to me that that part of the page has an "action"
<tseng> all the actions are, obviously, in the action bar
<tseng> assigning a bug is a common action i would want to do
<tseng> the link "ubuntu tomboy" in no way suggests to me that its the way to assign it to myself :)
<bradb> me neither :P
<tseng> once you tip me off to that
<tseng> putting my name in the right box is simple enough
<tseng> but saving changes should put me back on the bug
<tseng> not drop me back on the edit page
<tseng> actually, usability wise im not even sure *how* to get back now
<tseng> clicking 1028 on the breadcrumb goes back to the page im on again
<bradb> it's confusing yes, because there's no link back to the other page
<tseng> exactly
<tseng> using browser back is broken to the average user
<bradb> i'm creating a branch right now to make some usability improvements to that page
<tseng> great :D
<tseng> one problem with usability testing and geeks is.. now that i know how to assign, it will seem like less and less of a problem as time passes
<tseng> i imagine thats where you guys are at looking at this thing every day
<bradb> tseng: imagine how difficult it is for /me/ to understand what goes through the heads of non-Malone maintainers when they use Malone :P
<tseng> i can :)
<bradb> that's why feedback like this is so intriguing and informative
<tseng> ok so i hit back to 1028, and then tried Bugs from the breadcrumb
<tseng> system error, dunno if you can reproduce it
<bradb> i can reproduce it
* bradb checks if there's a bug already filed on that; there might be
<tseng> ok now i went to bug 1035
<tseng> it belongs to me also.
<tseng> the first report (summary?) has a ton of debugging output
<tseng> that little Needs fixing in box isnt even visible
<tseng> untill i scroll way down
<tseng> im going to go back and close 1028 now
<tseng> my first thought is still in the Actions menu
<tseng> but now i know better
<tseng> in fact, the actions menu doesnt seem terribly useful
<tseng> for my use cases so far
<bradb> (note: i filed the /malone/bugs bug as 1069)
<tseng> cheers
<bradb> tseng: interesting note, that, about the actions portlet not seeming useful for your use cases thus far
<tseng> i was expecting
<tseng> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs this
<tseng> bradb: i would probably Subscribe to bugs (this is like bugzilla CC?) and mark as duplicate
<tseng> edit bug to change bad titles
<tseng> but some of the other ones i dont even have a guess what they do
<tseng> "infestation"
* bradb laughs, with you though, not at you ;)
<tseng> i know what CVE is, most people dont
<bradb> infestations are all our fault
<tseng> and web link
<tseng> I can put in a comment or summary
<tseng> activity log
<tseng> on bugzilla, pretty much any change is reflected with a comment
<tseng> this might be wrong, but im acustomed to it and having two pages tracking one bug doesnt compute
<bradb> that is a fascinating problem for us to solve. really.
<bradb> how to model the fact that one bug can appear in many different places, and do so in a way that non-Malone maintainers (like, say, my grandmother) could make some sense of
<tseng> basically if i want to change status (close) a bug in bz, i *have* to leave a comment
<tseng> like "closing bug, fixed in cvs"
<tseng> if i reopen a bug, it doesnt
<tseng> so im sort of left to wonder, who/when reopened this
<tseng> if i dont read the automated mail, that is
<tseng> so bz isnt perfect either :P
<bradb> heh
<tseng> would it be bad to inline comments from multiple bugs?
<tseng> like Comment #1 from Malone
<tseng> Comment #2 imported from DBS
<tseng> i guess that would get confusing inline
<tseng> they could be seperated
<bradb> we'll be doing that with the debbugs sync, to the best of my knowledge
<tseng> so status changes in DBS could generate a comment on the malone page?
<bradb> the debbugs db would be synched periodically
<bradb> s/would be/will fairly soon be/
<tseng> hm
<tseng> debugs i find much more baffling than malone
<bradb> email interfaces are hard to design well, it would seem. we have one now for Malone.
<bradb> tseng: anything else you wanted to talk about re: the screens we've just been discussing?
<tseng> i just CC'd myself on 1069
<tseng> and it pretty much went as expected
<tseng> thumbs up on that, besides it being in two places
<tseng> (actions and people)
<tseng> i have no idea what an infestation is
<tseng> but i feel victimized
<bradb> heh. i think i'll remove that.
<tseng> fun words :)
<tseng> yeah if you could clean up actions and put some stuff im more likely to use in there..
<tseng> it would be alot more obvious
<tseng> the biggest thing that isnt clear is edit bugs vs needs fixing in
<tseng> im used to it being one task
<tseng> and actually all on the main page
<tseng> not that it should be
<tseng> i think thats it from me
<bradb> ok, thanks, this has been a thoroughly productive conversation.
<tseng> great
<tseng> oh
<tseng> is there a way to say all bugs against a certain package should get assigned to me
<bradb> not yet, but you're one of many who's asked about it, which suggests that we should try to address that soon.
<bradb> i'll file a bug on that right now too, if there isn't one already
<tseng> k
<bradb> 1070
<tseng> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1070
<tseng> looking at that
<tseng> it has the same text posted 3 times
* bradb laughs...heh, that needs some, ahem, redesign ;)
<bradb> i think mark has a fix on the way for this, so that a summary (the thing shown in bold at the top) isn't created from the description by default
<bradb> and thus, that bold-fu would be gone
<tseng> k.
<ivoks> anyone else has problems with X in breezy?
<HiddenWolf> aside from X being X? ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> it was ok untill last update
<ivoks> now it configures my keyboard as 101 keys, us
<ivoks> not 105
<tseng> you didnt need the other 4 anyway
<ivoks> i did :)
<ivoks> i use windows key all the time
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hey there bddebian :)
<jamessan> \sh: I blame you for making my laptop lock up and reboot  :p
<siretart> GNAAARF!
<siretart> got sfs to compile with gcc-4.0, now I have amd64 issues.. GNARF
<siretart> WAAAH: dataPtr *dp = new dataPtr; (*cb)((int)dp);
<jamessan> heh
<schweeb> hey all
* schweeb is finally installing Ubuntu onto the new IBM X41
<siretart> any c++ gurus available?
<siretart> how comes that with gcc-3.3 the following is 'just' an warning:
<siretart> In member function `void
<siretart>    dataNode::GC_cb_reinsertDone(node*, dataPtr*, ref<callback<void, void, void,
<siretart>    void> >, char, int)':
<siretart> /build/buildd/sfs-0.8-0+pre20041016.1/adb/dataNode.C:454: warning: cast to
<siretart>    pointer from integer of different size
<siretart> I'm trying to transition it to gcc-4, and I'm getting an error there
<siretart> anyone awake? ;)
<lesliev> I am :)
<siretart> ah, hi lesliev :)
<siretart> I'm at your package right now, btw ;)
<lesliev> ok!
<lesliev> seems extremely risky to cast integers to pointers
<siretart> lesliev: it is
<lesliev> Is that line 454? dataPtr *dp = new dataPtr; (*cb)((int)dp);
<siretart> lesliev: I have it written here: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11940
<siretart> lesliev: it clearly needs porting work. it would be best if upstream would handle it.
<lesliev> yes, you are right
<lesliev> have you used sfs?
<lesliev> It looks very interesting, I didn't know there was a secure nfs
<siretart> nope. but it is in the libraryCxxTransition list
<siretart> jupp
<siretart> the source looks mostly clean
<lesliev> Oh, I will send the sopwith stuff on to upstream too. I plan to help with as many as the .desktop files as I can.
<lesliev> I think it's very important
<siretart> great! :)
<lesliev> Do you know how the system files the menu entries? How does it determine where in the menu to put an app?
<siretart> I'm sorry, I didn't get this, too
<lesliev> k
<lesliev> I'll ask on the list
<lesliev> siretart: how do you co-ordinate the Cxx list? Have a number of apps been assigned to you?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-25
<siretart> lesliev: there is the wiki page, and everyone claims his packages there
<siretart> this is the list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CxxLibraryList
<siretart> lesliev: did you try to build sopwith with g++-4.0?
<siretart> err, gcc-4.0
<siretart> lesliev: I uploaded an updated package of sopwith with your contributions.
<siretart> gn8 folks
<lesliev> siretart: I built sopwith with 3.3.5 on Hoary. I think my apt probs may have been unrelated.
<lesliev> tx for doing the package, I will do the wiki page soon
<lesliev> gn8!
<chillywilly> hey guys
<chillywilly> when I boot up my new penguin computing server after installing it tells me it cannot read the ext3 /boot partition and that I need a newer version of e2fsck
<chillywilly> I used the amd64 install disk
<|QuaD-> i hate mplayer!
<Burgundavia> tseng, what do you start your beagle with?
<|QuaD-> anyone feel like doing some packaging?
<hondje> Howdy.  Who is maintaining the bzflag pkg for breezy? :)
<Lathiat> hondje: me
<hondje> Lathiat: Hi, addicted to the game.  Any chance I can get the .deb from you?
<Lathiat> hondje: http://bur.st/~lathiat/ubuntu/
<hondje> I've been rebuilding the pkg from etch, but that's not healthy
<Lathiat> hondje: its still awaiting review
<Lathiat> to go into breezy
<hondje> Lathiat: ah...did you happen to change the rules so it's not building for 486?
<Lathiat> erm
<Lathiat> dont think so
<Lathiat> hondje: would it really benefit from that?
<Lathiat> hondje: most things dont
<siretart> Lathiat: you are taking care of bzflag? great! :)
<hondje> Lathiat: Not greatly, but I notice the fps 'seem' a bit more consistant
<Lathiat> siretart: yeh wel its been awaiting review foramonth...
<siretart> Lathiat: the problem with bzflag is that its a c++ app, and cannot be uploaded anyway
<Lathiat> siretart: ah right
<hondje> Lathiat: big thanks for the package, mine wasn't running too well
<siretart> Lathiat: perhaps we can make a deal: you join the MOTUGames team, and put your package for reviewing on that page, and I'll review it with priority, how's that? ;)
<Lathiat> siretart: alright
<Lathiat> the question is, do i need to do any cxx transition stuff
<Lathiat> i might play with it
<Lathiat> ill do that tomorrow
<siretart> Lathiat: does bzflag build with g++-4.0 from hoary?
<siretart> Lathiat: does bzflag build with g++-4.0 from breezy? (sorry=
<Lathiat> i *think*, but im not sure
<Lathiat> i'll find out
<Lathiat> how do i tell pbuilder to use g++-4 ?
<siretart> if you have a breezy pbuilder chroot, it will use the "default" g++ compiler, which is g++-4.0 in breezy
<Lathiat> ok
<Lathiat> i'llbuild oen
<hondje> is there a how-to on using all the deb-helpers?
<siretart> hondje: well, there is the debhelper manpage..
<Lathiat> can i oint pbuilder at/var/cache/apt/archives ?
<Lathiat> for apt-cache?
<hondje> siretart: that one is geared towards developers
<siretart> Lathiat: see the pbuilder howto in the wiki
<Lathiat> yeh im look at it
<siretart> hondje: well, then I dont quite understand your question, debhelper IS for developers
<hondje> siretart: I want to make some packages for my personal use, of various commerical software
<siretart> oh, ic
<hondje> for most things, deb-src has me covered, really easy to use, but from scratch I'm at a loss
<siretart> I think it would be best the scim through the debian new maintainer guide, and read the debhelper manpage for the debhelper tools available, atm
<siretart> hondje: do you know dh_make?
<hondje> siretart: No, I'm afraid not
<Lathiat> yeh the debian new maintainer guide is good
<hondje> oh, I'll google that
<siretart> hondje: well, then look at it :) - it gives you a nice skeleton source package with debhelper tools
<hondje> oh, perfect
<sivang> Lathiat: really? I find it mostly lacking. The only true sources to learna bout deb pkgs, is make and autotools manual ;-)
<hondje> easy upgrades here I come ;-)
<Lathiat> sivang: make and autotools really has nothing to do with creating debian packages...
<siretart> Lathiat: well, debian/rules is a makefile ;)
* siretart away for lunch, cu later
<hondje> autotools is grokable, debhelper is confusing :)
<sivang> My point exactly...
<sivang> and debhelper is basically a set of premade make snippets, used on demand
<sivang> IIRC
<hondje> hrm
<sivang> Well, I'm just talking out of the frustration in the DNM guide ;-)
<hondje> now I'm a bit more confused, but that maint doc is big and well written...
<Lathiat> yeh but who doesnt use cdbs. ;)
<hondje> I have my own personal repo, I'd like to be able to keep myself all synced in
<sivang> Lathiat: true, however, could you please tell me how can I learn and master cdbs?
<sivang> Lathiat: The documentation is pretty sparse, last time I checked
<Lathiat> look at other packages. ;)
<hondje> other pkgs confuse me ;-)
<sivang> Lathiat: hehe, did that for a couple of packages I did, but I'm a tough cookie - I always want to have broad understanding
<hondje> I'm really mostly computer illiterate
<hondje> But ~5 years of using it for a desktop with nothing else has kinda forced me to learn a couple tricks...
<hondje> Now I keep setting up plans that are above me :)
<sivang> hondje: I also found out most of the already made cdbs pkgs confusing, I guess that's becasue with cdbs you can achive a lot with nearly zero lines of code.
<hondje> I should be glad work gives me a chance to try something neat though, making my own debs
<sivang> hondje: oh, that's nice, where do you work?
<hondje> sivang: small local company, we do various odd stuff
<hondje> my personal job is taking data and making pretty pictures and graphs with it, not very interesting, but we use a couple of in-house apps
<hondje> the rest of them (and sometimes me) write applications for banks and .gov types, or fix bugs / add features / reboot NT
<sivang> hondje: oh, are you a research student ?
<hondje> undergrad physics/math student
<hondje> I know just enough that my boss thinks I'm useful :)
<sivang> wow cool
<hondje> yeah, it's pretty neat stuff
<sivang> so you'd probably have lot's of free time to work on ubuntu?
<hondje> plus it gives me some useful skills that I can switch back to school, did well in a computational-math contest, from work-skills
<hondje> Not a lot, I have a daughter, a wife, school full-time for two degrees, and work 30-40 hrs a week :)
<hondje> though summer is much nicer, like now :)
<sivang> hondje: ah nice , where from?
<dholbach> hi
<hondje> I live in Colorado, US
<tseng> hi dholbach !!!
<dholbach> hi brandon
* hondje is working nights, as you can guess
<sivang> hondje: oh right :-)
<sivang> hey dholbach , ts	
<sivang> tseng, even
<hondje> my usual contribution-back is helping newbies, filing bugs and throwing money at projects
<sivang> what's cooking?
<tseng> hi sivang
* hondje is un-dev talented
<DanielN> morning
<hondje> I was thinking about making/maintaining a glest pkg, but I can't tell if it's Free or not
<dholbach> brb
<siretart> hondje: the source distribution should have some copyright or licence statement inside
<siretart> hondje: if not, it's not distributable, due to lacking statment :(
<dholbach> siretart, hondje: yeah, i just mailed some upstream guy to add a nice license - he did in less than a week
<hondje> siretart: ah, I'll try that out...I was just grepping their site, then I fired off an email to the lead dev
<hondje> dholbach: oh, for glest?
<dholbach> no, for tilda
<hondje> oh
<siretart> dholbach: cool! :)
<ivoks> hm, X are broken in breezy :(
<dholbach> xkb?
<ivoks> yeah :(
<dholbach> Keybuk well, a lot of stuff is trying to access /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb/...
<dholbach> Keybuk which daniels appears to have helpfully ommitted the symlink for
<dholbach> Keybuk and /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
<dholbach> Keybuk (now /usr/share/X11/XkeysymDB)
<dholbach> going to restart X now *wave*
<dholbach> HA! WORKS!
<ivoks> really?
<dholbach> yup
<dholbach> *headbang* *dance on the table*
<siretart> dholbach: grats :)
<ivoks> ok... X restart for me too then
<ivoks> hehe praise the lord
<ivoks> dholbach: thanks for tip
<dholbach> \{}{}[] {}@@ WOOHOO! :)
<dholbach> thank keybuk :)
<ivoks> biggest problem for me was the Windows key :)
<ivoks> i use it for close, maximize, minimize, shade, start term, etc...
<siretart> you mean the "ubuntu" key? ;)
<ivoks> uberkey :)
<dholbach> what do you guys think about a review day next week?
<dholbach> we desperately need it
<dholbach> the lists are ber-full
<ivoks> ok by me
<dholbach> i think it's the coolest way to contribute MOTU-wise to ubuntu
<dholbach> get fixed and NEW packages in
<dholbach> and praise those that did packaging work
<dholbach> i'll make an announcement - any suggestions for the date?
<ivoks> 7 days from now?
<ivoks> i have exam 23.
<dholbach> on the weekend?
<dholbach> hmmmhmhm
<ivoks> yeah, next saturday?
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> of friday
<dholbach> what does the rest of the crew think?
<ivoks> s/of/or/
<siretart> next weekend is linuxday
<ivoks> oh
<dholbach> everyday is ok for me - i'm chained to the computer at the moment :-/
<ivoks> dholbach: why?
<dholbach> ivoks: have to hand in my thesis in 8 weeks, last exam in 3 weeks
<ivoks> eh...
<dholbach> i've never been busier
<ivoks> then maybe you should work more on thesis, instead of ubuntu :)
<dholbach> but we need this review day - and i'll help out
<ivoks> just for a week or two :)
<dholbach> i'm not that busy on the ubuntu front atm, really not
<ivoks> ah... that's why everything is stalled :))
<dholbach> so in the week from 26th to 2nd somewhere?
<ivoks> maybe 27th? we will be fresh after weekend
<dholbach> fine by me
<dholbach> any other suggestions/opinions?
<ivoks> looks like we are alone
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> dholbach: put it in topic
<siretart> does anyone know zsh-lovers?
<ivoks> 27th is in 9 days...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about X for the next 2 weeks | no, we dont pay fixed packages in biltong | review day! JOIN US: June, 27th
<ivoks> siretart: i'm playing with zsh for last two weeks, but don't know much of it for now...
<siretart> ivoks: the zsh-lovers is additional knowhow documentation, licensed under gpl
<siretart> upstream already packaged it, I think breezy should have it
<siretart> the "problems" are: not in debian, and native package.
<siretart> dholbach: what do you think? should I repackage it as non native? or put it "as is" on NEWPackages?
<ivoks> ah :)
<dholbach> siretart: how is its state apart from being native?
<siretart> well, mainly its only documentation in 3 formats: manpage, htmlpage and pdf
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> you could explain the upstream guys what to do
<siretart> hm. ok, then I'll repackage it and propose that to upstream, perhaps the will adopt it
<dholbach> yeah
<siretart> hm. the package isn't very nice packaged anyway. but nice, but functional
<dholbach> ok - so we agree on monday, june, 27th?
<siretart> sounds good
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> sent the mail
<siretart> waah. the upstream tarball is the native package with debian dir
<siretart> now I understand: they want to provide the packages themselves and to simplify, they packaged it as native.
<siretart> I don't think they'd want to change that
<dholbach> write and tell them, that the .diff.gz will get unreadable
<dholbach> upstreams unfortunately mostly don't have a clue about packaging
<siretart> hm. I need to create a "new" orig.tar.gz, without debian/ dir
<dholbach> arglarglargl
<siretart> because as said, the upstream tarball is with debian/ dir
<siretart> exactly
<dholbach> i wouldnt create a new orig.tar.gz
<dholbach> i'd bite the bullet and have a messed up .diff.gz (if they don't change their position)
<dholbach> but i guess they'll hear you out, if you tell them
<siretart> hm. ok
<dholbach> i think it's good to be able to compare the md5sum with upstreams orig.tar.gz
<dholbach> but that's just my opinion
<dholbach> not a "rule"
<siretart> yeah, but in this case, this would really mess up the diff.gz
<siretart> but ok, will do
<dholbach> see you later
<Goshawk> hi
<Goshawk> i've found an error (and fixed) installing java (sun packages) on my ubuntu hoary, i don't know if it's really a bug. The /etc/alternatives/mozilla-javaplugin..etc. is a symb link to nothing because, installing java package there is not /usr/lib/j2sdk1.5-sun/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so file but it's /usr/lib/j2sdk1.5-sun/jre/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so. Should it be fixed in any way, or everyone should fix it
<Goshawk> creating a new symb link?
<siretart> hi Goshawk
<siretart> Goshawk: these j2sdk1.5 packages are not included in hoary, they are packages created and installed by the local sysadmin
<Goshawk> sure? i'm the sysadmin and i've only standard repos + backports... going to check them
<siretart> Goshawk: the problem you describe could indeed be a bug in java-package (which is distributed in hoary/multiverse)
<siretart> Goshawk: backports? uh. which version of java-package did you use to create the j2sdk1.5 package?
<Goshawk> yes i've universe, multiverse and backports enabled
<Goshawk> no... i've installed java with an easy apt-get install call
<Goshawk> apt-get install sun-j2sdk1.5
<Goshawk> apt-get install sun-j2re1.5
<Goshawk> and that's all
<siretart> sorry, this is not supportable. this sun-j2sdk1.5 package may not be legally distributed
<siretart> wherever you got this from, this download was not legal
<siretart> and obviously, it is broken
<Goshawk> ehm.. this is the mainteiner : Ubuntu Backports Project <ubuntu-bp-devel@googlegroups.com>
<Goshawk> and yes the section is Development(non-free)
<siretart> they are not affiliated with us, and we have not seen these packages, nor recommend using them
<siretart> not yet, there has been some discussion for colaboration, but I don't know what the current status is
<siretart> I'd recommend removing the sun-j2sdk1.5 package, and create one yourself using latest java-package
<Goshawk> ok... i'll find another easy way to make my firefox running java with apt-get
<siretart> Goshawk: I just told you the IMO easiest way to get the non free java plugin working
<siretart> latest java-package is 0.24, atm
<Goshawk> btw the buged packages are in ubuntu-backports.mirrormax server, that is listed in the unofficial ubuntu guide
<siretart> Goshawk: well, we know that the backports archive exist, but we cannot recommend using them.
<Goshawk> ok.. dropping backports repo
<Goshawk> and getting the java one from tower-net.de (ubuntu wiki)
<siretart> tower-net.de?
<Goshawk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Java
<Goshawk> siretart, first method
<siretart> Goshawk: I strongly recommend method 3
<Goshawk> siretart, i've to install java on 15 pcs at work
<siretart> and install this one first: http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/contrib/j/java-package/java-package_0.24_all.deb
<Goshawk> and i prefer a prebuild package than a one to compile by myself
<siretart> Goshawk: you don't compile anything at all
<siretart> Goshawk: this process just repackages the binaries from sun into an debian binary package. thats all
<siretart> Goshawk: you have to do this process only once, then you get your own sun-j2sdk1.5 packages, which you can install on as many installations as you want
<siretart> thats the only legal way
<Goshawk> stupid law... i've to convert the same bins to another that is the same to accomplish my work...
<Goshawk> s/another/anothers
<siretart> no stupid law, stupid sun distribution terms
<Goshawk> :D this is why i'll never use lookingGlass
<Goshawk> btw thanks for the support
<siretart> your welcome
<Goshawk> btw same problem with the j2sdk from tower-net.de :D
<Goshawk> fixed
<Goshawk> now it works :D
<Goshawk> it seems to be a common problem
<Goshawk> backports and tower-net-de
<ogra> the tower-net.de package works for me on 3 machines here, out od the box
<ogra> s/od/of
<Goshawk> ogra, for me they don't work, i've to modify a /etc/alternative file
<Goshawk> ogra do: ls -l firefox-javaplugin.so
<Goshawk> and paste output please
<ogra> Goshawk, i'm not near a i386 currently, sorry
<Goshawk> $ ls -l mozilla-javaplugin.so
<Goshawk> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 58 2005-06-17 22:24 mozilla-javaplugin.so -> /usr/lib/j2sdk1.5-sun/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so
<ogra> but the just work as the should.... i use several java applet based webpages from them, i'd recognize if java wouldnt work
<Goshawk> it should be usr/lib/j2sdk1.5-sun/jre/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so
<ogra> and lease dont modify /etc/alternatives by hand....
<Goshawk> ogra, 1.5 version?
<ogra> use update-alternatives
<ogra> ah, might be 1.4
<Goshawk> ogra, too late.. i used a ln -s firefox-javaplugin
<Goshawk> i'm talking about 1.5 version
* Goshawk sees man update-alternatives
<ogra> Goshawk, then do it for the next time, the alternative system is not happy about fiddling manually in it ;)
<Goshawk> ogra, uhm... good! this is why dpkg -S firefox-javaplugin.so can't locate the file
<Goshawk> because it's created by a postinst script...
<Goshawk> :D
<Goshawk> thanks ogra
<doko> Goshawk, why don't you use the blackdown packages?
<Goshawk> doko, because i had backports enabled (and now also tower)
<Goshawk> and because in the wiki, this way is showed as the best
<doko> Goshawk, change the wiki ;)
<Goshawk> or.... fix the package... since many people uses backports
<ogra> Goshawk, the guy doing backports doesnt even provide the source of his packages (which violates the GPL) how sould we fix something we cant look at
<siretart> ok, I just 'fixed up' the zsh-lovers package. Interested souls may check them out at http://siretart.tauware.de/ubuntu-packages/zsh-lovers. upstream has been mailed
<Goshawk> ogra, this is why i'll contact backports people
<ogra> Goshawk, we try to conince him to become a MOTU and open a MOTUBackports team but he refuses to work this tight with us....
<siretart> ogra: btw, was there any progress since the backport meeting?
<Goshawk> he? is him only one peson?
<Goshawk> person
<ogra> he wants to do his own thing, but thinks he can use our buildds
<Goshawk> i thought it was a group
<siretart> Goshawk: he has 2 helpers, but jdong does nearly all the work
<ogra> i think they are three, ut mainly its jdong
<ogra> but even
<Goshawk> ok... i'll talk with them
<Goshawk> in hte meantime we should fix the wiki
<Goshawk> now it's time to go to work for me
<siretart> ogra: in which point did he not agree to ubuntu?
<Goshawk> i'll do that at work (and i'll see if it's a problem of my pc or of all ubuntu hoary systems)
<ogra> siretart, he doesnt want to become a MOTU
<ogra> siretart, without him going through the MOTU process, we'll never be sure these packages have basic QA
<siretart> hm. thats right
<Goshawk> echo "became a motu member" >> Goshawk_TODO_list.txt :D
<ogra> and i'm very opposed to just give upload rights to somebody whose packages nobody checks
<Goshawk> see you guys
<ogra> ciao Goshawk :)
<siretart> cu Goshawk
<Goshawk> ciao Oliver
<ogra> :)
<siretart> ogra: yeah, but wasn't there also some discussion of implementing some upload target for backports?
<ogra> siretart, it will be our buildds and our archive
<siretart> but then still, only maintainers have upload rights. and without MOTUBackportsTeam, no uploads, no upload targets.. ic
<siretart> lol. and the backports forum requires registration..
<ogra> heh
<siretart> uff. and he seems to use plain svn for his archive
<siretart> well, I think the problem will solve itself shortly
<ogra> hmm
<siretart> hrhr. the repoistory sizes 16gb
<ogra> yeps
<Riddell> anyone know why dh_install --list-missing doesn't work on some packages?
<Riddell> dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp --list-missing
<Riddell> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/karbon.png': No such file or directory
<Mez> Afternoon Riddell
<Riddell> yo Mez
<Mez> ah :D keybuk's not going to be happy about this
<Mez> mez@apathy:~$ fortune debian
<Mez> <jim> Lemme make sure I'm not wasting time here... bcwhite will remove
<Mez>       pkgs that havent been fixed that have outstanding bugs of severity
<Mez>       "important".  True or false?
<Mez> <JHM> jim: "important" or higher.  True.
<Mez> <jim> Then we're about to lose ftp.debian.org and dpkg :)
<Mez> * netgod will miss dpkg -- it was occasionally useful
<Mez> <Joey> We still have rpm....
<Mez>         -- Seen on #Debian
<ivoks> ok...2.6.12 is stable
<siretart> Riddell: did you check that the directory it is supposed to install to actually exists?
<Riddell> siretart: in this case it was because the .install file was trying to install something that didn't exist, I'll come back when I next have an error ;)
<siretart> Riddell: ;)
<Riddell> right...
<Riddell> dh_install --list-missing
<Riddell> cp: cannot stat `usr/bin/karbon': No such file or directory
<Riddell> dh_install: command returned error code 256
<Riddell> but there is both debian/tmp/usr/bin/karbon and debian/karbon/usr/bin/karbon
<doko> Riddell: listed twice?
<Riddell> doko: nope, grep usr/bin/krita *install  turns up only 1, and there's no rule for usr/bin/* or anything
<ivoks> hm... is it possible to notify cups when USB/LPT printer is plugged in?
<Riddell> ivoks: ivman could do that
<Riddell> oh well
<siretart> Unfrgiven: ping
<siretart> Unfrgiven: you have iptraf on the ToReview Page. JeffBailey aready uploaded a 2.7.0-7ubuntu1 package. please check it out, and prepare a ubuntu2 package, if necessary
<ivoks> living on the edge, lol
<ivoks> kernel compiled with gcc4
<Riddell> ah works if I do, dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp --list-missing
<Riddell> shouldn't debian/tmp be the default?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-26
<jbailey> crimsun: Around?
<jamessan> jbailey: the last upload didn't take since there wasn't an orig.tar.gz
<jamessan> jbailey: the last fish upload didn't take since there wasn't an orig.tar.gz
<jbailey> Eh?  Weird.
<jbailey> I'll grab it a touch later, I'm hacking on something else atm.
<jamessan> ok
<lamont> bad network-manager (non-PIC in shared lib)
<HostingGeek> Oh crap
<HostingGeek> I just upgraded x.org
<HostingGeek> Is the topic referring to X as x.org
<siretart> HostingGeek: yes, it is
<siretart> moin
<littlepaul> siretart, moin
<siretart> huhu littlepaul
<HWolf> Guys, I have a weird problem with vlc
<lsuactiafner> if it itches go see a doctor..
<HWolf> It installs and works just fine, but I can't set it as the default for opening files in nautilus, if I select it in "add application" I get an error "could not add ..."
<HostingGeek> siretart: what its broken?
<siretart> HostingGeek: I don't use breezy's X.org yet.
<\sh> morning
<siretart> hi \sh
<\sh> hey siretart
<\sh> oh man...it's too hot for me
<siretart> way too hot
<siretart> \sh: if you have a minute, could you please have a look at https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11940 and tell me your opinion?
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> put long instead of int for this cast
<siretart> \sh: well, this would be quite intrusive, because they are using that callback as template, and it seems to be instantiated at several places.. hmm
<\sh> well on i386 int and long have the same size
<\sh> problem is on 64bit
<\sh> int == int and long larger then int
<\sh> and pointers need long on 64bit
<\sh> and if you fix this, and running into other build errors on amd64 patch it ;)
<siretart> siretart@hades:~/src/ubuntu/sfs/sfs-0.8-0+pre20041016.1
<siretart> >> grep -r 'callback<void, int>' *  G int | wc -l
<siretart> 72
<siretart> and I'm not sure if that catches all error
<tseng> fun
<Lathiat> whats sfs?
<\sh> siretart: but this is easy to solve
<siretart> Lathiat: self certifing filesystem, a package affected by CxxTransition
<Lathiat> ah ok
<siretart> \sh: you mean, with perl regex magic?
<\sh> siretart: i think emacs or vi is much better :) to proofe it :)
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/h/hdf5/1.6.4-2ubuntu1/ this is more interessting
<\sh> and I'll have a shower now
<koke> hi al!!
<tseng> hi
<koke> wow, June 27th is the day of my last exam :)
<tseng> rock on
<tseng> is there a package for that little evolution new mail applet?
<ogra> tseng, is there already a release ?
<tseng> shrug
<ogra> i know its in cvs
<tseng> i havent heard anything about it forever
<ogra> i'm still pondering if i should port evonotify to dbus or rather package the new applet.... but the status seems rather unclear to me
<ogra> but i'd definately like to have something like that in breezy
<tseng> i wonder if it knows if i have new mails since last time
<tseng> or just unread mails
<tseng> the second is useless, i always have unread mail
<tseng> maybe unread in my inbox only would be ok
<ogra> it sends a dbus message if new mail arrives.... evo needs to run for that
<tseng> ah thats perfect
<ogra> so it notifs only on new mail... as evonotify does...
<tseng> im wanting to run evo all the time but not have to look at it every couple minutes
<ogra> yeps
<tseng> great :)
<koke> tseng: what artwork do you want for mono live??
<tseng> koke: oh
<tseng> koke: hang on jhill posted more specifically
<tseng> koke: http://www.beyondfocus.com/WeblogX/PermaLink.aspx/6f5e75c0-24f8-433d-86df-cea4b6405435
<siretart> \sh: sfs now builds on amd64 with g++-4.0 in breezy chroot.
<siretart> \sh: you where right, fix was trivial
<siretart> \sh: btw hdf5 got built on ppc a few hours ago
<ogra> tseng, thoughts about galago ?
<tseng> ogra: about packaging?
<ogra> yes, for breezy
<ogra> dunno how stable it is yet though
<tseng> i think the ideas are really cool, im not sure the implementation at this point
<tseng> i guess its just a framework and no one is using it yet..
<ogra> ok, lets leave it for breezy+1
<tseng> there isnt that much cool user exposed stuff yet
<tseng> yes, lets
<ogra> haha.... shock and awe to the user.... http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=140598&ssid=13855
<tseng> or throw it in universe
<tseng> quietly
<tseng> oh man
<ogra> now _thats_ UI beauty, isnt it ? (how do i make my gnome apps look like KDE)
<tseng> that looks like something straight out of KDE
<tseng> hahahahahah
<ogra> lol
<tseng> great minds think alike.
<ogra> yay
<tseng> buttons-as-tabs
<tseng> thats great, we should use it all the time.
<ogra> heh
<tseng> i am not a fan of xcompmgr at this point
<tseng> the effects are too heavy
<ogra> me neither....
<tseng> and are probably pretty bad for usability
<ogra> but it works quite well if i want it, my amd64 an the nivida card only get about 60% performance drawbacks....so 40% are still left
<tseng> it works crappily on ati
<ogra> which is still faster then my other pII 400 laptop with 128MB
<ogra> err pIII
<ogra> if you can make real use of the features they will be cool, but that will requite lots of usability studies i guess
<siretart> ogra: do you want to have a look at this patch (sfs, transition was... nasty), or may I proceed with uploading? https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11940
<ogra> siretart, looks ok.... go ahaead
<siretart> juck :)
<ivoks> xcomposite is quite ok on nvidia
<siretart> what do I need to enable composite?
<siretart> (I know, this is not a user help channel ;)
<ivoks> xcompmgr
<siretart> no, in the xorg.conf
<ivoks> Section "Extensions" \\  Option "Composite" "Enable" \\ EndSection
<siretart> ok. thanks
<siretart> err. huh? I just try it out on an nvidia 6600gt, and I don't think its running acceptable :/
<ivoks> hehe disable glx
<ivoks> no 3D with xcomposition :)
<siretart> what? I may not use 3d?
<ivoks> for now... if you use nvidia drivers
<ivoks> nvidia said they will fix that
<ivoks> said
<siretart> ic
<ivoks> hm... what's up with F1?!
<siretart> strange, huh?
<ivoks> only 6 cars
<siretart> no cars with michelin tyres
<ivoks> yeah
<Seveas> michelin has problems
<ivoks> you know what happend?
<ivoks> they have bad tiers, i know that... but why didn'y they start?
<Seveas> it is dangerous to start on michelin tyres
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> leason 1.
<ivoks> how to spend money and don't do anything :)
<Seveas> hahaha
<HiddenWolf> My god, what happened?
<ivoks> imagine costs of bringing those cars there with all that equipment, and then miss the race :)
<ivoks> and what about all those people?
<HiddenWolf> What happened?
<ivoks> hoooooh... that's USA... you can't imagine all the trials after this :)
<ivoks> HiddenWolf: i don't know, i did't watch it from the begining...
<HiddenWolf> Did only 6 cars start?...
<ivoks> yes
<HiddenWolf> What a debacle for the sport.
<Seveas> quite...
<ivoks> but... jerks throwing botles on road?
<HiddenWolf> Yeah, they paid $250 the man to be there
<HiddenWolf> and they don't get a race.
<ivoks> that doesn't give them right to kill anyone
<ivoks> do you know what a simple beer can can do on 300km/h?
<HiddenWolf> i know
<ivoks> well, those drivers driving aren't guilty ones
<ivoks> michelin is guilty
<HiddenWolf> True.
<ivoks> they prepared tiers that are bad for this track
<HiddenWolf> This might well kill F1 in the US
<ivoks> yeah :(
<ivoks> heh... when you think... those teams not running... so stoopid
<ivoks> they didn't want to race
<HiddenWolf> Think about all the PR managers grabbing for prozac.
<ivoks> heh
<ivoks> we will see lot's of sueing now...
<ivoks> from sponsors of williams, mclaren, toyota, renault...
<HiddenWolf> from the indianapolis motor speedway and the drivers themselves.
<HiddenWolf> From the FIA and the F1 Holding Company
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> and people that were there
<ivoks> http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2005/June/190605-02.html
<ivoks> you have told your teams the left rear is safe for a maximum of ten laps at full speed
<ivoks> lol, fools :)
<Ti_Uhl> hello
<Ti_Uhl> i've made a little tool to change the user password and geckos information but i haven't got a clue about how to package it and send it in for submission
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-19
<raphink> malone 1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Baltix "Microsoft has a majority market share" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<raphink> debian 326833
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 326833 in kdelibs "Subject: kdelibs: KDE pseudoprinters do not work" [Normal,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/326833
<zul> wheee..
<Hobbsee> greetings all
<Hawkwind> Hey there Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey Hawkwind :)
<Kyral> Ah Hobbsee
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: xchat-2.6.4 uploaded to REVU today :)
<Kyral> I have been wanting to talk with you
<Hobbsee> hey Kyral
<Hobbsee> Hawkwind: yay!
<Hobbsee> Kyral: what did you want to talk with me about?
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: It's my first package ever, so if you review it, take it easy on me :)
* Hobbsee cant review :P
* Hobbsee is not a MOTU
<Hobbsee> well, i can, but i probably wouldnt find much
<Hawkwind> Ahhh. For some reason I thought ya were
<Hawkwind> Again, it's my newness to the Ubuntu world :P
<Kyral> Frickin heck
<Hobbsee> well...
<Kyral> Damn this hot weather
<Hobbsee> Hawkwind: i'm not, but i started doing packaging in late dapper - only just before that froze, so i havent had that much experience
<Kyral> my machine can't stand it
* Hobbsee sends Kyral down here for a while.
<Kyral> I wish
<Kyral> I'm about to go Liquid cooling
<Hawkwind> Kyral: Where you at in the world ?
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: And where is 'down here' ?
<Hobbsee> Hawkwind: australia
<Kyral> Potsdam NY
<Kyral> Hobbsee: you use Konversation right?
<Hawkwind> Kyral: Hah!  It's much hotter here in Houston, Texas I guarantee ya
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: Ohhh, nice
<Kyral> Hobbsee: is that an offer to come visit?
<Hobbsee> Kyral: hah.  and yes, i do
<Kyral> Well, I am looking for something to do in the 2 weeks between my job ending and school starting
<Hobbsee> ah, i see
<Kyral> anywya wanna try some scripts I worked up for Konversation?
<Hobbsee> Kyral: sure, what are they?
<Hobbsee> please tell me they ban by IP
<Kyral>  Just some simple things that I was using to play with DCOP
* Hobbsee really really wants that feature to be executed by keyboard, not just by mouse.
<Kyral> one pastes the URL of whatever is currently being viewed in Konqeror into the channel
<Kyral> like this
<Kyral> Currently viewing in Konqueror: FSF - The Free Software Foundation, URL: https://www.fsf.org/
<Hobbsee> nice
<Kyral> other just spits out the localtime
<Kyral> Local Time is now: Sun Jun 18 22:53:00 EDT 2006
<Hobbsee> ah yes, like @time sydney
<Hobbsee> cool :)
<Kyral> want them?
* Hobbsee still wants a ban by domain shortcut.  
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I'll work on it
<Hobbsee> good
<Hobbsee> Kyral: you know what i'm meaning?
<Kyral> yah ban an IP instead of a host
<Hobbsee> also a kickban by domain shortcut, seeing as they should be fairly similar
<Kyral> I'll have to look at what DCOP functions do that
<Kyral> So can I come visit you in Aussieland? :P
<Hobbsee> Kyral: right click on username, kick/ban, [ban/kickban]  *!*@domain
<Hobbsee> is the one i want
<Hobbsee> heh, you can if you really want.  no guarentee that i'll be there though
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Maybe I can bug ajmitch :P
<Kyral> He'd _LOVE_ that :P
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> i'm sure he would :P
<Hobbsee> he'd hide from you
<Kyral> haah
<Kyral> Ah well I wanna do something fun in the 2 weeks
<Kyral> maybe I'll take a trip down to NYC
<Hobbsee> besides, you'd get eaten by snakes and crocodiles in australia
<Hobbsee> not really sure why you'd want to come
<Kyral> Easy
<Kyral> I have never been there before :D
<Hobbsee> yes, but you would get eaten
<Hobbsee> and dont forget the viscious koalas.
<Kyral> Moh....you must think me un agile
<Hobbsee> Kyral: why arent you in paris?
<Kyral> Work
<Kyral> and not enough cash :P
<Kyral> I may go to OLS near the end of Joly
<Kyral> July even
<Hobbsee> nice
<Hobbsee> heh.  cash is always a problem
<Kyral> Ottawa is a LOT closer than Paris :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> well yeah, but both are still stacks closer than here
<Kyral> But take pictures okay?
<Hobbsee> of what?  of aus?
<Kyral> Hmm, maybe I should ask Russ Neslon if he wants to go to OLS...
<Kyral> Nelson even
<Kyral> no of Paris
<Kyral> Gah!
<Hobbsee> hah
* Hobbsee staples Kyral to IRC
<Hobbsee> right.  stay!
* Hobbsee prods Kyral 
<Hobbsee> i thought i told you to stay!
<Kyral> yesh?
<Hobbsee> silly people, entering and leaving the chat all the time...
<Kyral> Its the heat
<Kyral> its not liking my machine
<crimsun> box it [the heat]  up and ship it to Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hehe thankyou :)
* imbrandon just got an iPod nano 4gig , looking up info to put linux on it as we speak, man this thing rocks
<Hobbsee> nice :)
<imbrandon> it was my "fathers day" gift from my 2 year old son ;)
<imbrandon> heheh
<Hobbsee> :P
<ajmitch> afternoon
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch!
<Hawkwind> Hey there ajmitch
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> excellent, got hold of the person in melbourne...
<Hawkwind> imbrandon: Congrats on the ipod, and happy fathers day as well :)
<imbrandon> thanks Hawkwind
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: they're telling you not to come?  :P
<ajmitch> hehe no
<Hobbsee> oh.  pity :P
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> you don't want me to come to .au?
* Hobbsee raises an eyebrow.  just think on that for a second.
* ajmitch might just have to fill in a week in canberra instead :)
<Hobbsee> no!
* Hobbsee will give Kyral your address down there.
<ajmitch> he wouldn't visit
<Hobbsee> he was talking about wanting to come to AU before - didnt you see it?
<ajmitch> I saw
<Hobbsee> just to come and annoy you :P
<ajmitch> but you don't know where I'll be
<ajmitch> just what city
<Hobbsee> canberra's not that big.
<ajmitch> I'm sure it'd be easy enough to spot an american tourist like Kyral :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<crimsun> you underestimate ajmitch's hiding-fu
<Hobbsee> crimsun: you underestimate how small canberra is
* ajmitch has friends & relatives all round australia..
<Hobbsee> well, it's big enough, but there's not much there.
<ajmitch> I'm sure if I stayed longer in canberra I'd just end up babysitting my niece
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> and then you might be tempted to take her home with you
<ajmitch> nah
<Hobbsee> no?  okay then :P
<ajmitch> I'll let my sister have her when she's unhappy :)
<Hobbsee> hehe!  yes, that sounds highly sensible.
* ajmitch needs to head out & get a bus ticket
<ajmitch> back later
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: enjoy
* The curses nick completion turning everything red!
<The> argh!
<ajmitch> crazy..
<Hobbsee> ajmitch:  :D
* Hobbsee had fun doing that.  
<ajmitch> I'm glad not all australians are like that
<Hobbsee> hehehe
* Hobbsee blames the chemistry
* Hobbsee never has to do chem again!  yay!
* ajmitch blames the Hobbsee 
<crimsun> aw, chem isn't too bad
<ajmitch> don't let laserjock hear you say that
<Hobbsee> this lot is. ick.
<Hobbsee> besides, he should be asleep anyway
<ajmitch> he should be waking up around now
<crimsun> shouldn't he be waking...
<crimsun> yeah
<Hobbsee> maybe, depends how late those devs wake up :P
<crimsun> can't miss breakfast!
<ajmitch> 9AM start
<Hobbsee> mmm...breakfast...
<ajmitch> you think they have a chance to be lazy this week?
<ajmitch> you have no idea how busy they're kept...
<Hobbsee> true
<raphink-sleep> :)
<ajmitch> raphink-sleep doesn't look to be sleeping
<raphink-sleep> not anymore indeed :)
<raphink-sleep> going to work in 45 minutes
<raphink-sleep> )
<raphink-sleep> :)
<ajmitch> heh
<raphink-sleep> where I'll be reading thrilling cfengine doc
<ajmitch> ooh
<ajmitch> *exciting*
<raphink-sleep> :)
<raphink-sleep> yeah
<ajmitch> got plenty of caffeine?
<raphink-sleep> I don't drink coffee
<raphink-sleep> I drink tea instead
<raphink-sleep> and I'm bringing my kubuntu cup there :)
<Hobbsee> and then you'll fall asleep again, so the nick will be correct
<raphink-sleep> with a box of tea bags
<ajmitch> hehe
<Hobbsee> :)
<raphink-sleep> Hobbsee: no way I fall asleep in my office I believe
<raphink-sleep> esp. with this colleague of mine that will be coming to ask questions about dapper again ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<raphink-sleep> keeps me awake :)
<raphink-sleep> I should order new CDs
<raphink-sleep> I only have the maximum I could have on shipit, i.e. 8 i386 and 2 amd64
<raphink-sleep> so I'm gonna run out of them in a very short time
* ajmitch probably won't see any dapper cds until the edgy release
<Hobbsee> yeah, then why would you need dapper ones?   seems a bit strange
<ajmitch> with the stuff we're putting in edgy, who'll want to run that?
<raphink-sleep> haha yes
<raphink-sleep> people who don't measure how unstable it will be
<raphink-sleep> which is most people
<raphink-sleep> just being excited by the fact that it's new and shiny
<Hobbsee> good point
<raphink-sleep> by that time we'll need a bot that will automaticallly answer any sentence of the kind "edgy crashed my system"
<raphink-sleep> on IRC
<crimsun> see the number of people still complaining about udev not installing, for instance...
<raphink-sleep> yes
<raphink-sleep> well people are responsible for their choices
* Hobbsee is holding off upgrading :(
<raphink-sleep> they should just be told that edgy is not to be as stable as dapper
<ajmitch> they still won't listen
<raphink-sleep> ajmitch: I know, but at least they'll have been warned
<crimsun> Ben totally needs to "misplace" vmlinuz. Maybe that'll learn 'em.
<ajmitch> heh
<raphink-sleep> haha
<ajmitch> you could do a kernel upload as well, crimsun
<Hobbsee> hehe
* raphink-sleep tries to find his way to the shower
<ajmitch> yo uknow you want to...
<crimsun> ajmitch: I kinda value my life atm...
<Hobbsee> and then have elmo on your tail, yeah...fun
<ajmitch> it can't make edgy that much more broken
<ajmitch> most of the world fails to build at the moment
<raphink-sleep> yes
<raphink-sleep> mostly because of intltool-debian
<raphink-sleep> that prevents debhelper from installing
<ajmitch> which needs manual work by infinity
<raphink-sleep> doesn't help, for sure
<ajmitch> since it needs debhelper to build
<raphink-sleep> well it _could_ be worse
<raphink-sleep> if it was debuild that was broken maybe
<ajmitch> nah
<raphink-sleep> or gcc
<ajmitch> debuild never gets used by the buildds
<ajmitch> gcc breaking would be a little worse
<Hobbsee> heh
<raphink-sleep> but indeed broken debhelper is not the best situation
<raphink-sleep> ;)
<TheMuso> Hey MOTus.
<LaserJock_> hi TheMuso
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso and LaserJock
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: I think I'm at the table to your right
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<crimsun> ah, you lucky guys/gals you
<crimsun> I'll be on planes most of this week :/
<Hobbsee> hi crimsun
<ajmitch> poor crimsun
<crimsun> hi Hobbsee
<crimsun> & ajmitch
* ajmitch gets to sit here in wintry NZ
<LaserJock_> hi crimsun, my mic works!!
<jsgotangco> its a bit hot here
<TheMuso> Its nice in here however.
<LaserJock_> I thought it was a bit chilly at the moment
* ajmitch looks for the UDS schedule
<LaserJock_> we are currently doing a 1 min. presentation of *each* spec
<crimsun> LaserJock_: excellent!
<LaserJock_> https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-paris/+specs starting from the top
<ajmitch> LaserJock_: yes, I can hear about 1 second or so at times
<ajmitch> that's nice, but it doesn't say what the schedule is :)
<ajmitch> nor do we get the audio :)
<LaserJock_> we don't have a schedule
<LaserJock_> I don't think
<LaserJock_> it will be created in a bit via LP et al
* ajmitch thinks LaserJock_ has been doing phd stuff too long
<ajmitch> using 'et al'
<Hobbsee> hey Tonio_
<LaserJock_> oh yeah
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> 'et al' only refers to people, afaik :)
<LaserJock_> a priori, in silico ;-)
<Tonio_> hey Hobbsee
<Tonio_> hi all
<imbrandon> hrm cant hear much on TS
<imbrandon> heya Tonio_ Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: most people arent talking :P
<imbrandon> and ajmitch LaserJock
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir's just got the volume thing activatd, instead of PTT
<imbrandon> yea but it would be nice to hear whom ever is presenting
<ajmitch> it would be
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: uh, no.  I've muted my mic now.
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: it's your one that lights up
<Hobbsee> who's tfheen?
<Hobbsee> tha'ts you isnt it Mithrandir?
<imbrandon> Riddell, can you get close to the presenters and "rebroadcast" hehe
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: it is, but I've blooded muted my mic so that's quite impressive.
<Hobbsee> *now* it's muted
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> I'd blame vmware :)
* Hobbsee would just blame ajmitch 
<Mithrandir> quite impressive.  It still picks up stuff when I've unplugged the mic.
<Hobbsee> wow!
<ajmitch> yeah, laptops tend to do that
<Mithrandir> (and no, my laptop doesn't have a built-in mic ttbomk)
<ajmitch> mine does - just a little hole in the case
<Hobbsee> my mic's not connected, although i could...
<Riddell> imbrandon: they're all around the room
<imbrandon> ahh
<TheMuso> tis not quite practicle to mike up everyone.
<imbrandon> ;(
* Hobbsee would personally just mic the room, split it, stream one, and blast the other all over the room.
<Hobbsee> that'd be the *easiest* way to do such a thing - but woultn let others talk in, i guess
<TheMuso> hehe
<Hobbsee> depends on how big the room is too...hmmm...
<LaserJock_> hi imbrandon
<LaserJock_> it's kinda spread out
<Hobbsee> it'd depend on how good the condenser mic was then - and on where it was put
<Hobbsee> and if some idiot went and knocked it, of course :P
<LaserJock_> right now you would basically do as good reading the specs
<Mithrandir> we could just use a very directional mic
<imbrandon> *tap*  *tap* *tap* ..... is this thing on ..... lol
* Hobbsee smacks imbrandon 
<Hobbsee> gah....i wish people wouldnt do that.
<Hobbsee> lol
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> hrm guess i'm going back to my ipod hacking till something interesting starts hapening
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that's usually why you stick such mics on a roof/wall - so people *dont* do that.  :P
<imbrandon> lol
* Hobbsee makes a mental note to remember to go to work.
<ajmitch> why bother?
<imbrandon> yea the bounty for this is gonna be nice, should include video broadcasting too
<ajmitch> as long as the bandwidth isn't like UDU...
<jsgotangco> its pretty good actually
<Mithrandir> we have an 8Mbit ADSL, I think.  And hopefully, we'll get another one.
<ajmitch> great
<Hobbsee> nice
<LaserJock_> raphink: you around?
<raphink> yep just came back
<LaserJock_> from Paris?
<raphink> ah no
<raphink> from Sophia
<LaserJock_> k
<raphink> couldn't make it
<raphink> so i'm at work
<raphink> but I'll be there ;)
<raphink> I mean online
<LaserJock_> sweet
<ajmitch> morning \sh_away :)
<LaserJock_> raphink: I'm enjoying France so far :-)
<raphink> LaserJock: how is paris?
<LaserJock_> raphink: the conf or the city?
<LaserJock_> the conf is great
<raphink> the city ;)
<LaserJock_> but I haven't been to the city yet
<raphink> ok
<LaserJock_> 16 euros, shesh
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> 2 for a bottle of water
<LaserJock_> yeah
<raphink> 16 ?
<raphink> for what?
<jsgotangco> no wonder the public fountains have long lines?
<LaserJock_> raphink: to go to Paris
<jsgotangco> raphink: day long train ticket
<raphink> jsgotangco: you're not going to the right places ;)
<raphink> jsgotangco: ah right
<jsgotangco> brb
<raphink> you might not need to get a day long ticket
<raphink> if it's only to go there and back
<raphink> you can travel on foot inside paris
<LaserJock_> yeah
<raphink> I wish I could be your guide there ;)
<raphink> although I don't complain being here either ;)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> raphink: my only complaint is the hotel seems to be in the middle of nowhere
<LaserJock> raphink: so there are no shops
<raphink> well... airport
<LaserJock> close
<ajmitch> sudden burst of sound..
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Thats how I feel as well.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Break atm.
<KillerKiwi2006> any body what nick Alexander Schier goes as?
<crimsun> TS is a lot like Token Ring. =)
<ajmitch> ouch
<pschulz01> Does anyone have a good example of a multi-binary-package package that would begood to look at?
<pschulz01> I'm looking through 'dhcp' but I was wondering if there was anything else?
<pschulz01> I'm having trouble finding documentation on how multi packages hang together.
<kelmo> like, one source package, many binary packages sort of thing?
<pschulz01> kelmo: yes..
<pschulz01> eg. dhcp has 'dhcp-client' ,'dhcp' and 'dhcp-relay' but only one 'debian/rules' files.
<kelmo> yes, that is true for just about every package
<kelmo> the best way is to make good use of debhelper helper files, and have debian/rules simply call the debhelper script that you use
<pschulz01> There are also dhcp.install and 'dhcp-client.install' files in 'debain' which contains a list of files...
<kelmo> exactly
<kelmo> package.install package.dirs package.init etc etc
<ajmitch> and debian/control lists the binary packages that get created
<kelmo> yup
<siretart> hi kelmo, hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<siretart> ajmitch: xine-devel answered that xine-lib and ffmpeg use internally some textrelocs
<kelmo> hi siretart
<siretart> gentoo has some patches to remove them from xine-lib (provided by the pax guys), which he wants to test and include them for xine 1.1.3
<siretart> for ffmpeg it's rather unclear
<kelmo> that Diego from gentoo is always blogging about (and apperently hacking on) xine ;-)
<pschulz01> So.. let me get this straight... the debian/rules file should get all the binaries/libraries etc to be built, and then dh_buildpackage will separate them all aut according to the <package-name>.install file?
<kelmo> pschulz01: well, package.install is just one helper, but yes, that is the basic idea
<pschulz01> sorry.. that should be dh_builddeb
<pschulz01> Is it the '*.install' files that determine what goes in each binary package? cause when building a single binary package I've never noticed or needed it.
<siretart> which is cool that he is working on xine
<siretart> pschulz01: have a look at dh_install(1)
<kelmo> indeed
<kelmo> siretart: in package related news, Jouni just applied some small/trivial patches from me to wpa_supplicant devel branch ;-)
<siretart> \sh: new cmake entered unstable just today (currently in incoming)
<siretart> kelmo: cool :)
<pschulz01> siretart: dh_install is not what I'm after then..
<pschulz01> How do you tell multi binary packages what goes into what?
<pschulz01> (package)
<crimsun> via foo.install, which is related to dh_install(1)
<kelmo> and foo.dirs, foo.docs, foo,examples . . . <foo.helper>
<ajmitch> dh_install{dirs,docs,examples} respectively
<siretart> pschulz01: reread 2nd paragraph
* ajmitch wonders when the UDS people are coming back online :)
<crimsun> they must be off doing something supersekrit
<ajmitch> obviously
<ajmitch> sabdfl is probably unveiling the master plan for world domination
<ajmitch> or something like that
<crimsun> 8:30 AM meeting, have to sleep  *zonk*
<ajmitch> night crimsun
<AnAnt> are the edgy repos open yet ?
<AnAnt> it is called edgy , right ?
<LaserJock> AnAnt: yes
<LaserJock> and yes
<AnAnt> ok, I am using dapper
<AnAnt> and yesterday I found 94 updates
<LaserJock> from -security and -update
<AnAnt> gnome 2.14.2 & linux kernel 2.6.15-25.43
<AnAnt> actually I am not sure where they are from
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> -security & -updates :)
<AnAnt> I enabled security,update & dapper-backports
<AnAnt> ic
<AnAnt> the kernel didn't boot though
<AnAnt> giving me some error
<AnAnt> about /dev/{dunno what}/dunno what too
<ajmitch> & you've filed a bug with those details?
<AnAnt> nope
<AnAnt> I want to retry first
<AnAnt> I just came to ask wether those were backports or not
<AnAnt> ok, so, does the new kernel support MMCv4 cards ?
<ajmitch> I doubt anything new was added in the update
<TheMuso> Anybody here from the conference having trouble accessing their smtp servers/
<AnAnt> ic
<jsgotangco> webmail rocks
<jsgotangco> heh
<TheMuso> Webmail sucks.
<TheMuso> :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<AnAnt> ok, I uploaded some packages to the REVU, how do I know if they are going to enter Edgy or not ?
<AnAnt> ajmitch: btw, how/where to file a bug?
<ajmitch> launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<AnAnt> k, thx
<LaserJock> AnAnt: if they are approved by 2 MOTUs they can be uploaded to Universe
* ajmitch is going to have to be very nocturnal to be near any of these bofs
<azeem> are they broadcast?
<ajmitch> teamspeak only
<azeem> ah
<ajmitch> & gobby sessions
<ajmitch> however I'm 10 hours ahead of paris time :)
<azeem> yeah, you should be *on* Paris time!
<azeem> well, they probably have insane business hours during their conference, so being some hours off might be an advantage to some...
<azeem> though 10 hours seems excessive
<ajmitch> being in NZ has its disadvantages
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<lukketto> Hi
<ajmitch> zul!
<tseng> there is only zul.
<zul> hey ajmitch
<zul> and tseng
<zul> this voip thing is actually kind of cool
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> and gobby
<zul> i could hear fabbione's voice for a minute..
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> scared yet?
<zul> oh i been scared before
<zul> brb
<ajmitch> watching people type up a spec is interesting
<LaserJock> ajmitch: heh, it's kinda interesting on this end too
<tseng> woo!
<tseng> looks like debconf may be fixed
<ajmitch> LaserJock: a bit more so, I'd say
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> the buildds are thrashing around again?
<tseng> dunno
<tseng> just peeked in my chroot
<ajmitch> looks like they're all idle
<tseng> cli-common built
<tseng> 0.4.2
<ajmitch> welcome back, zul
<ajmitch> hm, great
<tseng> good enough for me
<zul> ajmitch: thkx
* ajmitch is listening to kinnison, fabbione & sabdfl discussing package diffs
<ajmitch> tseng: it built locally, not in edgy?
<tseng> no?
<tseng> you know what
<tseng> i did showsrc
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/cli-common/0.4.2
<ajmitch> ah
<tseng> dummy
<tseng> <
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I need to listen to one BOF will talking in another ;-)
<tseng> is there a url for all the fun?
<Lathiat> i just discovered a copy of the free software song in my music folder
* Lathiat is scared
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis/Participate
<tseng> thanks
<zul> what time is it in paris btw?
<tseng> about 1pm
<siretart> 12:37
<ajmitch> 12:37
<ajmitch> and http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/schedule/2006-06-19/
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm getting hungry
<tseng> no-more-source-pacakges?
* tseng is scared
<tseng> oh
<tseng> Topic: should we abandon source packages entirely in favour of working in bzr
<ajmitch> tseng: everything-in-bzr
<tseng> including hct, i hope
<siretart> better: create source packages by buildds
<ajmitch> keybuk considers hct to be deprecated
<tseng> in favor of?
<ajmitch> siretart: sure, people will still want source packages done the traditional way
<ajmitch> but we'd avoid uploading them
<tseng> siretart: dch; bzr ci -m "My Commit"; launchpad-magic-branch-action;
<tseng> maybe just sftp to a magic place
<ajmitch> siretart: how many branches have you pushed now?
<ajmitch> tseng: it's all tied to the personal package archive magic
<ajmitch> where a branch is blessed as 'put this in the distro'
<siretart> ajmitch: you could import sourcepackages as 'foreign' vcs commit
<siretart> ajmitch: dunno, I have some more in private use, and I wonder if I should leave them on tauware or push them to the supermirror
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: "bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy"
<Mithrandir> possibly with a tag too.
<ajmitch> I've had some here in private use for quite awhile
<ajmitch> that would be interesting
<siretart> ajmitch: currently, i have a shared repo on tauware.de, this saves bandwith when I push a new branch
<ajmitch> siretart: yes, something launchpad really lacks at the moment
<Mithrandir> or sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/casper/1.60
<ajmitch> it hurts when you've changed only a couple of files in a branch
<siretart> which is a common use case
<siretart> at least for me
<ajmitch> yes
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: some of us have more bandwidth than others. :-P
<ajmitch> I have a number of branches which were patches
* Mithrandir hides
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: even so, bzr latency hurts :)
<Mithrandir> bzr latency inside the DC is quite acceptable, IMO.
<Mithrandir> ;-)
<ajmitch> it was pushing at about ~5K/sec
<ajmitch> :P
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: how's the hotel for this one?
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: it's a hotel.  It has a swimming pool, I have a bed and they serve food.  There's a limit to how exciting hotels get after a while.
<Mithrandir> it's decent enough, I'm just bored of hotels.
<ajmitch> :)
<tseng> We have Personal Package Archives in the pipeline  those will allow people to have their own small apt-get/synaptic compatible archives served by, and built by, Launchpad.
<tseng> that is cool
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> it's been in planning for quite awhile
<siretart> I hope the 'closing bugs via changelog' spec didn't get dropped of the pipeline
<tseng> i hope you need to be in the keyring for that
<ajmitch> no, I think they're truly personal archives
<ajmitch> so people will upload to launchpad, not REVU
<tseng> lower buildd priority, then
<ajmitch> certainly
<tseng> sucks enough to be in the middle of a multi package juggling act fighting against the buildd
<ajmitch> but I don't think builds can be preempted
<ajmitch> so if the queue is empty, and someone uploads a multi-hour build to their PPA, it'll block at the moment
<tseng> yes
<ajmitch> joy, private launchpad wiki, we won't see the spec later
<tseng> yeah last time i complained about that the answer was "yeah we are going to open that no problem"
<tseng> actually what happened was they horked the vhost so things went to the lp wiki
<ajmitch> kinnison was just apologising for it
<ajmitch> must be lunchtime there now
<Mithrandir> luuuuuuuunch.
<zul> hey
<ajmitch> hello
<phanatic> afternoon everyone
<ajmitch> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey ajmitch
<ivoks> uploads for ubuntu-security goes trough pitti, right?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> there's a mailing list..
<ivoks> i know :)
<ajmitch> ok :)
<ivoks> we have mailing lists for everything :)
<ajmitch> security-revies@lists.u.c
<ivoks> yup
<ajmitch> almost..
<ajmitch> review, not revies
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: good lunch?
<jsgotangco> pretty good
<jsgotangco> you're supposed to be sleeping right?
<ajmitch> it's only midnight
<ajmitch> I want to sit in on the next BOF about source packages
<jsgotangco> ahh yes
<ivoks> $SU -l postgres -c "$PGENGINE/initdb --pgdata=$PGDATA" >> $PGLOG 2>&1 < /dev/null
<ivoks> oh, made by redhat :/
<ajmitch> there's also the easier-motuing BOF after that
<ajmitch> but I don't know if I can stay awake that long
<imbrandon_> rec it ajmitch
<imbrandon_> ts can rec
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> it's something I'd want to discuss, not just record
<imbrandon_> right
<siretart> can someone please save a recording of that bof anyway please?
<siretart> I don't have ts here right now
<ajmitch> siretart: sure, someone will :)
<ajmitch> I think the aim is to record them all
<whiprush_> I tried to use teamspeak for about 30 seconds.
<whiprush_> then right to the recycle bin.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> it's great software, isn't it?
<whiprush_> easymotuing sounds fun
<ajmitch> "how do we make the MOTU community suck less?"
<ajmitch> since we do suck at times at getting new people in
<zul> we suck?
<ajmitch> yes, we all suck
<imbrandon_> hehe
<imbrandon_> arg whats the ts ady again
<imbrandon_> i just cleard the field
<ajmitch> teamspeak.uds.canonical.com
<imbrandon_> thx
<tseng> hi jsgotangco
* ajmitch should not have got such a cheap headset
<ajmitch> the headphones on this are painful
<jsgotangco> bonjour!
<ajmitch> 'playing along from home' indeed... :)
<imbrandon_> ajmitch can you understand lifeless ?
<ajmitch> no
<imbrandon_> kk making sure it wasent just me
<ajmitch> lifeless: you need to use push-to-speak on teamspeak
<lifeless> ajmitch: I know
<imbrandon_> yes msw
<imbrandon_> VERY MUCH
<imbrandon_> ajmitch can you communicate that i feel that would be VERY helpfulle, i dont have a working mic
<imbrandon_> atm
* ajmitch wonders if it was audible
<imbrandon_> barely ;)
<ajmitch> hm
* Hobbsee heard ajmitch more coherantly than keybuk :(
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach!
<ajmitch> dholbach!!
<imbrandon_> yea i mainly think its a case of people not knowing about bzr
<dholbach> heya
<ajmitch> and bzr lacking in some areas
<imbrandon_> but once it past that it can be very helpfull
<ajmitch> like the submit-by-email feature being done as SoC project
<imbrandon_> ajmitch true
* Hobbsee goes in search of dinner
<ajmitch> or having to push the *whole* branch to launchpad :)
<imbrandon_> as long as the build system makes the old way transparent it could be pulled off
<imbrandon_> exactly transparency is they key
<Hobbsee> ah, sounds much better on the headphones.
<ianm> hi guys.  I'm interested in getting some projects into ubuntu.  specifically the Screen Ruler, Font Sampler, and Chess Clock (screenshots: http://linuxadvocate.org/projects/ )
<imbrandon_> lifeless: can you use push to talk please
<lifeless> imbrandon_: I do
<imbrandon_> hmm ok
<Hobbsee> lifeless: we're missing most of what you're saying...
<ajmitch> lifeless: it's been unintelligible when you were speaking
<ajmitch> cutting out most of the tie
<imbrandon_> yea
<ajmitch> s/tie/time/
<imbrandon_> everyone else seems clear though
<imbrandon_> or atleaste clear enough to understand
<lifeless> well, I'm using push to talk, and my mic gain is at max.
<lifeless> turn your volume up :)
<ajmitch> my ears would bleed then - everyone else is loud :)
<Hobbsee> lifeless: and get blasted by everyone else :P
<lifeless> easier for them to turn gain down :)
<imbrandon_> its not realy the loudness, its the cutting in and out
<imbrandon_> we hear like every other word
<lifeless> no idea whats causing that
<lifeless> any suggestions rather than second guessing, would be appreciated
<imbrandon_> right right, no idea atm, thought it was push to talk
<ajmitch> alright, time for dholbach to shine..
<ajmitch> heh
<Hobbsee> hah
<ajmitch> dholbach! don't leave us!
<Hobbsee> wb dholbach
<_ion> lifeless: amixer sset 'Mic Boost (+20dB)' unmute
<lifeless> amixer: Unable to find simple control 'Mix Boot (+20dB)',0
<lifeless> muhha
<Hobbsee> alsamixer?
<lifeless> mixer: Unable to find simple control 'Mix Boost (+20dB)',0
<_ion> Mic
<lifeless> oh feh
<lifeless> we'll see if that helps - thanks
<ajmitch> dholbach: do we have a BOF?
<dholbach> easiuer-motuing
<dholbach> port 9003
<ajmitch> yes, but are you on teamspeak?
<dholbach> oh no, none of us is
<jsgotangco> lol
<ajmitch> oh well
* ajmitch might as well go to bed then
<jsgotangco> TS isn't becoming too popular even
<ajmitch> it's sort of the only way some of us can be involved
<ajmitch> since most people aren't inclined to discuss on irc as well
<jsgotangco> the Tab Consistency BOF is pretty active in TS
<ajmitch> yeah I see that
<ajmitch> dholbach: some summary of what's going on would be nice
<dbernar1> hi. If I get this error, and want to change the source for the package so it does not perform that particular check, which file can I edit? The error is shown in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15295. In the changelog file of the source for the package, I can see when the maintainer created the check I want to remove.
<dholbach> ajmitch: we're writing the spec atm
<dholbach> the gobby session is open
<dbernar1> I think I found it in the packages file.
<dbernar1> I made the change. Just added some #s. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15984 is what it looks like now. How do I make a .deb out of it? Should I just read the new debian maintainer's guide?
<siretart> is the gobby server supposed to work from the outside? I get only timeouts
<ajmitch> yes, it does work
<ajmitch> though I don't see anything happening to the spec
<ajmitch> siretart: port 9003?
<siretart> oh. interesting. I'll try
<dbernar1> Can I package a .deb without a gpg key?
<zul> whats the addy for gobby again?
<dbernar1> Just for myself.
<ajmitch> dbernar1: yes
<Hobbsee> zul: it's in repos, it seems
<ajmitch> zul: gobby.uds.ubuntu.com
<dbernar1> OK. brb.
<hub> so you guys are in Paris?
<ajmitch> nope
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Hobbsee> nope
<sorenh> yeah
<zul> nope..
<jsgotangco> lol
<imbrandon> nope
<siretart> ajmitch: thanks. this was it.
<ajmitch> preferable is the right spelling :P
* ajmitch probably wouldn't make a good mentor
<Hobbsee> oh i dont know
<Hobbsee> who mentioned preferable though?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: in gobby
<Hobbsee> oh
<imbrandon> hrm gobby isnt connecting
<ajmitch> imbrandon: port 9003
<imbrandon> ahh
<dbernar1> OK, that worked, thanks.
<ajmitch> well, that was an abrupt ending
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> tab consist over ?
<Hobbsee> oh, ajmitch:  i thougth about it, and decided it wasnt a good idea.
<ajmitch> almost
<Hobbsee> :P
<ajmitch> siretart: we'll need to save the document after this :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch is motueasy next ?
<siretart> ajmitch: you should save it regularily, because gobby used to crash a lot
<siretart> I wonder why it didn't crash yet..
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it's just finished
<imbrandon> umm i mean in paris
<ajmitch> the next scheduled session for it is drafting
<imbrandon> k
<ajmitch> however the spec session was mostly drafting
<ajmitch> siretart: this is a newer version :)
<ajmitch> one that doesn't kill the document for everyone when someone's gobby crashes
<siretart> ajmitch: still without undo
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> that's why you save your doc into a bzr branch :)
<siretart> and have a cronjob autocomitting it every 2 minutes?
<siretart> :P
* ajmitch has done that before..
<ajmitch> bzr is cheap, far less setup than cvs or svn
<whiprush_> I keep all my work documents in bzr.
<whiprush_> it's sweet.
<siretart> bzr autocommit --interval=2min ~/documents
<siretart> bzr autocommit --stop ~/documents
<siretart> ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> that'd be an easy plugin to write..
<siretart> ajmitch: gogogo! :)
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> don't tempt me
<ajmitch> I've got enough to procrastinate with
<Hobbsee> go on ajmitch :P
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> siretart: set it running in your session when you login? :)
<imbrandon> would be nice
<imbrandon> heh
<siretart> I'd rather like to have it started manually, and stop automatically as soon as I close the shell
<tseng> is slomo in paris?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> he is
<tseng> cool
<siretart> the use case: I setup an 'autocommit' branch, and after I finish my work, I merge that in some other branch
<ajmitch> siretart: should be possible, I think
<ajmitch> I wonder if the release schedule BOF is going on now
<siretart> I wonder what the result of the nomoresourcepackages spec was
<ajmitch> result?
<siretart> s/spec/bof session/
<siretart> well, they did discuss it, no?
<ajmitch> there was no result, just some blue-sky discussion
<ajmitch> keybuk came up with a grand plan to use bzr like quilt
<ajmitch> obsoleting the method on the wiki
<ajmitch> managing patches with ease
<siretart> hm
<tseng> using bzr like quilt w/o hct sounds like a pita to me
<siretart> it is marked 'essential'
<siretart> is this really targeted for edgy?
<tseng> have you seen how manoj does it
<ajmitch> he says it'd only take an hour or two to code up
<ajmitch> tseng: somewhat
<tseng> pain
<tseng> dholbach: !!!
<ajmitch> siretart: not really, sabdfl wanted it talked about though
<ajmitch> welcome back, dholbach
<siretart> i see
<dholbach> re
<ajmitch> it's quite possible to do for edgy though
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> at least some parts of it
<ajmitch> we wrote up more of the MOTU doc..
<ajmitch> (a few extra lines is all)
<tseng> Mez: a question
<ajmitch> siretart: I've got most of it recorded
<tseng> Mez: when you uploaded a broken ifolder did you mean for it to go to revu or dapper?
<siretart> ajmitch: cool. is it accessible somewhere?
<ajmitch> siretart: not yet, it's a large .wav file
<siretart> ah, i see
<ajmitch> I can just make out kamion's accent
<Mez> tseng: I really cant remember - I uploaded it in like - february
<tseng> Mez: yes but it was clearly broken and wouldnt build in pbuilder even
<tseng> I am hoping you meant to upload it to revu
<ajmitch> that's a nice late tentative feature freeze
<ajmitch> (mid-sept)
<ajmitch> beta 2 weeks later
<whiprush_> bah, teamspeak sucks for me.
<ajmitch> yep
<tseng> Mez: just please be more careful in the future, the package was broken (and never reviewed by motus)
<ajmitch> sucks for us all
* whiprush_ just relies on ajmitch for the play-by-play
<Hobbsee> well, it is supposed to be edgy - makes no sense to have half the dev cycle swallowed in feature freeze...
<ajmitch> whiprush_: gobby!
<ajmitch> whiprush_: I'm not in paris either
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: we still need to be able to release something usable
<whiprush_> is gobby working?
* whiprush_ installs
<ajmitch> yes
<Hobbsee> i'm aware of that...
<ajmitch> just because it's edgy doesn't mean we throw all quality out the door
<tseng> ajmitch: Hobbsee is new at this :)
<ajmitch> bah, she'll learn
<tseng> should have been here for breezy
<Lathiat> why is it everytime yoru in a rush to reboot, it was 30 days since you last fsckd
<tseng> bring the pain
<whiprush_> yeah, people seem to think that edgy is going to be like sid or something
<tseng> haha sid
<Kamping_Kaiser> 30 days?
<whiprush_> you should see the forums, they think FF2.0 and gaim2.0 are shipping
<tseng> "gnome is broken 8 months of the year"
<ajmitch> whiprush_: dude, sid is incredibly stable compared to what we go through
<whiprush_> heh
<Kamping_Kaiser> <g>
<Hobbsee> tseng: bah, i did some of the cd testing for that - not proper dev stuff.
<tseng> breezy was our rockiest dev cycle so far
<tseng> the first release of warty that i got was more stable
<whiprush_> ajmitch: are you just joining every gobby session or .... ?
<ajmitch> whiprush_: no, just the ones I'm following
<tseng> sounder 7 or some junk
<Hobbsee> heh, i remember kde being a bit nuts then too
<tseng> kde wasnt exactly supported in warty
<whiprush_> ajmitch: how can you tell which port corresponds to which talk? I don't see it on the schedule
<ajmitch> whiprush_: you get told :)
<ajmitch> it's the only way
<whiprush_> ajmitch: which one are you in? :)
<ajmitch> 9001
<ajmitch> edgy-release-schedule
* Kamping_Kaiser rmemebers DIYing a system called kUbuntu for itshare.... 
<tseng> i cant use those ports out the firewall
<tseng> w/o a bunch of clever ssh hackery
<tseng> I won't be joining you
<ajmitch> ok
<Mez> tseng:np - will do :D
<tseng> Mez: thanks
<whiprush_> ajmitch: cool, I'll just follow you around then.
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> it's 2:30AM here
<Hobbsee> tseng: i meant for breezy
<ajmitch> I'm not staying up much longer
<tseng> oh
<Hobbsee> crazy ajmitch staying up all night :P
<ajmitch> depends if I'm able to hear anything in the gcc-ssp bof
<tseng> oh
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: as if you can talk
<tseng> thats today?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's not even 1 yet :P
<tseng> suck
<ajmitch> kamion is the only one I can really hear
<ajmitch> funny
<ajmitch> thinking that merges will be complete in a week or two
<ajmitch> universe merges will take a lot longer
<ajmitch> but that doesn't matter
<Hobbsee> oh ok, so they're only talking about main...
<ajmitch> they usually do
<ajmitch> universe can follow its own schedule for that
<ajmitch> though we do tend to follow UVF & FF
<Hobbsee> true
<siretart> merging universe will be hell this time..
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I think we have > 1000 to merge or check for syncs
<azeem> how many active mergers are there approximately?
<ajmitch> maybe 10 or so for universe
<siretart> this is hard to guess
<ajmitch> depends on how many random helpers we get
<siretart> 10, maybe less maybe a bit more
<phanatic> ajmitch: consider that as a motu school session :)
<ajmitch> it probably would be
<ajmitch> Hobbsee can teach it
<Hobbsee> what???
<ajmitch> thanks
* Hobbsee couldnt possibly do it.
<Hobbsee> whatever it is.
<phanatic> great :)
<ajmitch> yes you will
* ajmitch puts her name down on the wiki
<siretart> I'm volunteering for a motu school session 'effective merging debian changes using bzr'
<ajmitch> siretart: bah, you beat me to it ;)
* Hobbsee knows nothing, nothing at all.
<siretart> ajmitch: perhaps we can prepare it together?
<ajmitch> siretart: might be a good idea - bzr is good for collaborative work :)
<phanatic> i'm really looking forward to that session, guys...
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you'll learn quickly enough
<ajmitch> siretart: got some ideas to write up about it?
<siretart> ajmitch: I've done some merges with bzr, and found it very handy
<siretart> ajmitch: I'd like to craft some scripts, because some tasks are quite common
<siretart> I need to write my ideas down
<siretart> did get to it, I'm currenty at work ;)
<ajmitch> doing a full import of the base debian package, the newer one, and the ubuntu package?
<ajmitch> heh
<siretart> full import of the base package
<siretart> then creating 2 branches: debian and ubuntu branch
<siretart> update the ubuntu branch with the ubuntu package
<siretart> then update the debian branch with the new debian package
<siretart> then merge the ubuntu branch to the debian branch
<siretart> then resolve, and be happy
* ajmitch is glad that we can throw away all of our python2.3->2.4 diffs to debian
<ajmitch> nice :)
<siretart> some bzr plugin to import/update a branch with a new package would be great
<ajmitch> we need to spec this! :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: get writing :P
<ajmitch> though some of that will be covered by what keybuk was suggesting in NoMoreSourcePackages
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: enough with your smart comments :P
<siretart> s/with a new/from a given/
<Hobbsee> okay
<ajmitch> next you'll be suggesting I actually do work
<siretart> in principle this is what will be done with NoMoreSourcePackages
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> in practice, keybuk was going to try & write up a plugin in a spare session in paris
* Hobbsee will wait a bit for that one
<ajmitch> siretart: what other things could we do for motu school sessions?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: anything to do with bzr - as most people havent used it
<ajmitch> that will take a little bit of time for common practices to emerge
<siretart> ajmitch: 'how to triage bugs in malone' 'effective forwarding of bugs in malone to debbugs'
<phanatic> Hobbsee: there are some decent howtos on the bzr homepage
<ajmitch> currently we're experimenting with how to maintain packages & the like with bzr
<Hobbsee> true
<siretart> perhaps we should start with 'common tasks when maintaining packages with bzr'
<ajmitch> ok
<siretart> and make that mandatory for the 'merging session'
<ajmitch> most people aren't going to be maintaining their own packages with several patches against upstream
<ajmitch> lewing said he had 23 patches for me to apply to f-spot, at last count..
<ajmitch> so I'm interested in what keybuk can do
<Hobbsee> night all
<ajmitch> night all
<TheMuso> c
<crimsun> Mez: ping, do you mind making one of siretart, slomo, or myself an LP ubuntu-backports admin, please?
<Yagisan> night all
<gilligan_> evening
<tortho> who is deciding wich packages goes into ubuntu-desktop?
<uniq> tortho: Maintainer: Matt Zimmerman <mdz@ubuntu.com>
<uniq> that's my guess.
<tortho> uniq: Thanks
<uniq> you're welcome :)
<Sp4rKy> hi MOTUs
<Sp4rKy> i've a little answer about at-poke , which is in UniverseCandidates
<Sp4rKy> i'm trying to package it but  needs cspi1-0 , but i don't find any cspi version in apt
<Sp4rKy> so do i blind or it is really not in repositories ?
<chantra> hi there
<uniq> sp4rky: you can check with packages.ubuntu.com
<Sp4rKy> uniq, ;( really doesn't exist in repositories, so i must create it before :/
<uniq> sp4rky: check packages.debian.org, it's very quick to move a package from debian to ubuntu.
<Sp4rKy> uniq, another good idea :)
<Sp4rKy> uniq, no more in debian :/
<uniq> then you might have to make it yourself :)
<Sp4rKy> youpiii :/
<chantra> raphink: are you here?
<raphink> yeah but a bit busy ;)
<chantra> :)
<raphink> will you be online later?
<chantra> okie, I uploaded a sync/merged version of fuse
<chantra> raphink: don't really know
<chantra> just to let you know that yo can check it out on revu
* Hawkwind Lights the fuse....oh wait, wrong kind of fuse :P
<chantra> Hawkwind: :D
<Yagisan> didn't fuse go into the kernel ?
<chantra> Yagisan: still require some utils and -dev packages
<Yagisan> chantra: ok. nevermind me then. I haven't touched it since a failed attempt at gmailfs
<chantra> raphink: basically, I removed debconf, too many bigs due to that, actual debian package depends on makedev_2.3.1-81 so I had to change few line
<chantra> merged udev rule + other merges
<Sp4rKy> does anyone have a package which generate many deb for an examples ?
<chantra> Sp4rKy: yep
<chantra> there is gaim , fuse
<Sp4rKy> chantra, apt-get source gaim to see it ?
<chantra> indeed
<chantra> it is base on different package-bit1.install|postinst package-bit2.install|postinst....
<Sp4rKy> k thx
<reclusivemonkey> hello all
<crimsun> hi
<reclusivemonkey> I've been informed this is a place you can request for apps to be included in Ubuntu repositories. I have been trying to compile OGMRip all night, and failed miserably, so though I have nothing to lose by asking in here!
<crimsun> that's really a #ubuntu question, but I'll look in a sec.
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: tried in there, its too busy. I am used to a.o.l.s!
<crimsun> (it would be helpful to me if you gave me a url to download the ogmrip source)
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: one tick, you'll have it...
<reclusivemonkey> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/ogmrip/ogmrip-0.9.0.tar.gz?download
<crimsun> that's probably an html page
<crimsun> sorry, I'm very busy atm
<reclusivemonkey> well I don't assume where you are. which location do you want or doesn't it matter?
<crimsun> doesn't matter
<crimsun> wgettable is preferable
<reclusivemonkey> http://kent.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/ogmrip/ogmrip-0.9.0.tar.gz
<crimsun> ``sudo apt-get build-dep mplayer'' should fix that
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: TY dude, will try that
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: nope, I did that, then ldconfig, then make clean, ./configure, make. same result
<crimsun> reclusivemonkey: what does configure barf on?
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: ./configure doesn't barf, make does
<reclusivemonkey> ./configure is happy as larry...
<crimsun> ok, shooting in the dark doesn't help. Pastebin the output.
<reclusivemonkey> ok i will have to go learn what pastebin is. brb
<crimsun> http://pastebin.ca for instance
<tiagoboldt> just put your output there reclusivemonkey
<reclusivemonkey> tiagoboldt: the whole make output, or just where it starts to barf?
<tiagoboldt> that you must ask crimsun:)
<crimsun> the entire thing.
<crimsun> context is quite important
<reclusivemonkey> np
<reclusivemonkey> http://pastebin.ca/67382
<crimsun> line 276.
<crimsun> that's a source error; fix the source.
<reclusivemonkey> ogmrip-backend.c:353:5: error: missing binary operator before token "2"
<reclusivemonkey> thats line 276. which particular source is this referring to?
<crimsun> crimsun@garnish:/tmp/ogmrip-0.9.0$ find . -name ogmrip-backend.c
<crimsun> ./libogmrip/ogmrip-backend.c
<reclusivemonkey> so back to slack then where it compiles without problem?
<crimsun> hmm?
<crimsun> if you want to use Slackware, go ahead, nothing's stopping you. I'm simply pointing out that the required token is missing.
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: I appreciate your help but you're not telling me anything I can use. I was looking to Ubuntu because it was supposedly more user friendly. I have no problems with Slackware but with a baby on the way I was thinking I may need to switch. I am now thinking that was a big mistake
<crimsun> reclusivemonkey: what's the output from: mplayer |head -n1 |sed -e 's%MPlayer \([0-1] \).*%\1%'`  ?
<crimsun> sorry, omit the trailing `
<crimsun> mplayer |head -n1 |sed -e 's%MPlayer \([0-1] \).*%\1%'  ?
<reclusivemonkey> MPlayer 2:0.99+1.0pre7try2+cvs20060117-0ubuntu8 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team
<crimsun> ok, so you need to export MPLAYER_MAJOR=1
<crimsun> the fault lies with ogmrip's configure script.
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: ok, I just tried that. Same result
<crimsun> you're using -DMPLAYER_MAJOR=1 ?
<reclusivemonkey> i did export MPLAYER_MAJOR=1. should it be something else?
<Mithrandir> it should be 0
<Mithrandir> it looks like
<Mithrandir> reclusivemonkey: just try changing the MPLAYER_MAJOR=`$MPLAYER_PROG | head -n 1 | $SED_PROG -e 's%MPlayer \([0-1] \).*%\
<Mithrandir> 1%'`
<Mithrandir> line in configure to read:
<Mithrandir> MPLAYER_MAJOR=0
<crimsun> Mithrandir: I'm pretty sure it's checking to see if 1.0pre is used, no?
<Mithrandir> crimsun: hmm
<crimsun> the configure script isn't able to account for Ubuntu's versioning scheme
<Mithrandir> it gets confused by the epoch, true
<reclusivemonkey> Mithrandir: a line number would save me some squinting ;-)
<Mithrandir> reclusivemonkey: 21299
<Mithrandir> reclusivemonkey: you might want to add MPLAYER_PRE=7 too.
<Mithrandir> (just add it at the next line)
<reclusivemonkey> OK, OGMRip compile, Scene 1, take 47 ;-)
<reclusivemonkey> same result Mithrandir; it barfs. I think I corrected configure as you instructed. Will pastebin.
<reclusivemonkey> whoops, can't pastebin, too big. Will stick it on my webbie.
<reclusivemonkey> http://www.reclusivemonkey.com/configure.txt
<Mithrandir> reclusivemonkey: can you put your config.log somewherE?
<reclusivemonkey> LOL if you can tell me where i'd find it Mithrandir
<reclusivemonkey> oh, from ./? gotcha. will do
<crimsun> reclusivemonkey: the problem is that ogmrip's configure script expects to see 1.0pre[..]  precisely and not what Ubuntu uses (2:0.99+1.0pre7try2+cvs20060117-0ubuntu8, where both the epoch of 2 and the fact that 0.99+ is tacked on before the 1.0pre)
<crimsun> the conditionals in libogmrip/ogmrip-backend.c and src/ogmrip-crop.c both want to know if you're using 0.X or 1.0preX
<reclusivemonkey> again crimsun, no offence, I am used to ./configure, make and make install "just working". I don't need to worry about any of this in Slack. I'm not a programmer, its all double dutch to me
<Mithrandir> if so, change the hardcoded MPLAYER_MAJOR to 1 and it might work.
<crimsun> as a hack, just put "#define MPLAYER_MAJOR 1" at the top of libogmrip/ogmrip-backend.c and src/ogmrip-crop.c
<crimsun> (without the quotes)
<reclusivemonkey> http://www.reclusivemonkey.com/config.log
<reclusivemonkey> Mithrandir: tried MPLAYER_MAJOR=1, no luck again
<crimsun> you could just change the check to be sed -e 's%MPlayer 2:0.99+\([0-1] \).*%\1%'
<Mithrandir> reclusivemonkey: if you look at config.h, I believe it claims that MPLAYER_PRE is 0?
<reclusivemonkey> Mithrandir: thats right
<crimsun> reclusivemonkey: just add "2:0.99+" to the sed expression
<Mithrandir> try just munging MPLAYER_PRE  to 7 and _MAJOR to 1 there.  Or do as crimsun suggests.
<Mithrandir> I need to catch some sleep now
<crimsun> 'night Mithrandir
<reclusivemonkey> Mithrandir: thanks for all your help I will try that
<crimsun> reclusivemonkey: make line 21299 read: MPLAYER_MAJOR=`$MPLAYER_PROG | head -n 1 | $SED_PROG -e 's%MPlayer 2:0.99+\([0-1] \).*%\1%'`
<crimsun> reclusivemonkey: then make line 21307 read:   MPLAYER_PRE=`$MPLAYER_PROG | head -n 1 | $SED_PROG -e 's%MPlayer 2:0.99+[0-1] \.[0-9] \+pre\([0-9] \+\).*%\1%'`
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-20
<reclusivemonkey> ok crimsun will try that
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: same result. I think I edited ./configure right
<reclusivemonkey> http://www.reclusivemonkey.com/configure.txt
<crimsun> hmm, doesn't seem to be loading
<crimsun> in any case, we know what it's trying to check, and we know what the correct value is
<crimsun> man, this is just ugly.
<reclusivemonkey> _you_ seem to ;-)
<crimsun> your Web site must be blocked from my end
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: Actually, thinking back I seem to remember on Slack there was some mention of only using official MPlayer releases... but then my memory is not the best
<crimsun> MPLAYER_MAJOR=1 and MPLAYER_PRE=7 are definitely the correct values
<crimsun> the changes I mentioned to configure should work.
<reclusivemonkey> try http://reclusivemonkey.homelinux.org/configure.txt
<crimsun> no go
<crimsun> here, just mash it in.
<crimsun> At the top of libogmrip/ogmrip-backend.c and src/ogmrip-crop.c, put the following two lines:
<crimsun> #define MPLAYER_MAJOR 1
<crimsun> #define MPLAYER_PRE 7
<uniq> http://frode.lnix.net/dull/configure.txt in 5 secs.
<uniq> mirror for you.
<crimsun> reclusivemonkey: you mistakenly still have MPLAYER_MAJOR=0 and MPLAYER_PRE=7 defined in ./configure
<crimsun> reclusivemonkey: and ./configure is still missing the changes I mentioned
<reclusivemonkey> should I be doing "make clean" between each of these?
<crimsun> make distclean
<crimsun> here, use http://sh.nu/~crimsun/configure
<uniq> nite guys.
<crimsun> 'night uniq
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: I used your configure; same result. I have tried different versions of gcc; how do i make sure I am using the correct one now?
<crimsun> gcc
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> gcc -v
<crimsun> reclusivemonkey: paste your config.log somewhere
<crimsun> reclusivemonkey: did you use the two defines I gave you?
<crimsun> the two defines hard-code the correct values, so they should work.
<reclusivemonkey> I used your configure if thats what you mean
<crimsun> that /should/ work
<crimsun> the two defines definitely will work.
<reclusivemonkey> config.log pastebin; http://pastebin.ca/67421
<crimsun> huh, MPLAYER_PRE is still 0? That's wrong.
<reclusivemonkey> cat ./configure | grep MPLAYER_MAJOR
<reclusivemonkey> MPLAYER_MAJOR=`$MPLAYER_PROG | head -n 1 | $SED_PROG -e 's%MPlayer 2:0.99+\([0-1] \).*%\1%'`
<reclusivemonkey> #define MPLAYER_MAJOR $MPLAYER_MAJOR
<crimsun> right
<reclusivemonkey> luke@mother:/usr/local/src/ogmrip-0.9.0$ cat ./configure | grep MPLAYER_PRE
<reclusivemonkey>   MPLAYER_PRE=`$MPLAYER_PROG | head -n 1 | $SED_PROG -e 's%MPlayer 2:0.99+[0-1] \.[0-9] \+pre\([0-9] \+\).*%\1%'`
<reclusivemonkey> #define MPLAYER_PRE $MPLAYER_PRE
<reclusivemonkey> #define MPLAYER_PRE 0
<crimsun> change that last line to #define MPLAYER_PRE 7
<tiagoboldt> ogmrip is being a nice headache :)
<tiagoboldt> well, 'night*
<reclusivemonkey> ormrip rocks! how dare you! ;-)
<tiagoboldt> & good luck :D
<crimsun> (meh, I missed libogmrip/ogmrip-xvid.c and src/ogmrip-main.c for MPLAYER_PRE)
<crimsun> yay for coreutils
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: do I need to add the two MPLAYER lines to those as well?
<crimsun> to the following files you need to add #define MPLAYER_MAJOR 1  :
<crimsun> libogmrip/ogmrip-backend.c and src/ogmrip-crop.c
<crimsun> to the following files you need to add #define MPLAYER_PRE 7  :
<crimsun> libogmrip/ogmrip-backend.c , libogmrip/ogmrip-xvid.c , src/ogmrip-crop.c , src/ogmrip-main.c
<reclusivemonkey> done and done. Same result
<crimsun> pastebin?
<crimsun> make output, that is
<reclusivemonkey> http://pastebin.ca/67424
<crimsun> that's due to -Werror
<crimsun> line 271
<reclusivemonkey> cc1: warnings being treated as errors  ok, is that fixable? In my lager saturated state?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> remove "-Werror" from line 20146 of configure
<reclusivemonkey> bet you're glad i know my way round vim at least ;-)
<crimsun> eh, I would have just asked you to use sed otherwise.
<reclusivemonkey> then you would of lost me...
<reclusivemonkey> ok, that seemed to work. make finished without errors, so I sudo make install, but i don't seem to be able to find it????
<crimsun> it installs to /usr/local/bin/
<reclusivemonkey> ls /usr/local/bin/
<reclusivemonkey> dvdcpy  googleearth  srttool  subp2pgm  xwinwrap
<crimsun> hmm
<crimsun> which ogmrip
<reclusivemonkey> luke@mother:/usr/local/src/ogmrip-0.9.0$ which ogmrip
<reclusivemonkey> luke@mother:/usr/local/src/ogmrip-0.9.0$
<crimsun> find . -name ogmrip
<reclusivemonkey> luke@mother:/usr/local/src/ogmrip-0.9.0$ find . -name ogmrip
<reclusivemonkey> luke@mother:/usr/local/src/ogmrip-0.9.0$
<crimsun> then it didn't actually finish
<reclusivemonkey> ok
<crimsun> do you have a log of the compile?
<reclusivemonkey> would that be config.log?
<tseng> no
<crimsun> make >&somefile.txt
<reclusivemonkey> http://www.reclusivemonkey.com/OGMcompile.log
<crimsun> remember I can't reach that host...
<reclusivemonkey> oh right, ok let me pastebin
<reclusivemonkey> http://pastebin.ca/67430
<crimsun> looks like the Makefile* are broken
<crimsun> what is dvdrip?
<crimsun> err, n/m, that would be dvdcopy, not dvdrip
<reclusivemonkey> crimsun: Ok its after midnight here, thats all I can cope with for one night. I *really* appreciate your efforts, but I think I've learned all I can from this experience
<zul> heylo
<crimsun> 'lo
<zul> crimsun: how is it going?
<crimsun> zul: not bad. Happy I'm able to suspend-to-RAM again :)
<crimsun> yourself?
<zul> heh..good...just getting xen to build
<crimsun> excellent
<ajmitch> hi
<crimsun> 'morning ajmitch
<ajmitch> how are you crimsun ?
<crimsun> not bad, ajmitch, and yourself?
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> nice, redhat is opening a branch in NZ
<ajmitch> maybe I can try & get a job ;)
<crimsun> =)
<zul> traitor
<zul> :)
<ajmitch> heh
<Hobbsee> morning all
<crimsun> 'morning s.h.
<Hawkwind> Hey there Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi crimsun and Hawkwind
<Hawkwind> How's things in Aussie land today
<Hobbsee> oh dear, this'll start people referring to me as sarah, wont it?
<zul> now it will
<Hobbsee> just woke up, pretty much
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> lazy person
<Hobbsee> hush ajmitch :P
<ajmitch> is it so bad to be known as sarah?
<Hobbsee> it feels weird, hearing it online
<Hawkwind> Hah.  I know that feeling
<crimsun> Hobbsee: meh, you're on the Kubuntu CC. It shouldn't be /that/ awkward.
<Hawkwind> It's very strange to have people call you by your real name on IRC when you don't use any form of your real nick online
<Hobbsee> crimsun: true
* Hobbsee wouldnt be using her real name at all, except for the fact that she has to for her key.
<Hawkwind> Heh.  I saw it on your wiki page
<Hobbsee> yes, i had to have it there, because of the key.
<crimsun> or you can take the opposite route, which is to splatter your real name everywhere
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> i think it is, pretty much
<Hobbsee> some painter shares my name..
<Hawkwind> It seems once it's out there once, it gets spread pretty rapidly
<Hawkwind> I know mine did atleast.  But then again I had a lot of dealings with Mandriva over the years
<Hobbsee> true
<Hawkwind> Especially when you build 300+ rpms a day every day, and each one contains your nick and real name :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<zul> *grumble* grumble* night
<ajmitch> hmm
<Hobbsee> hm?
* ajmitch blames Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee blames ajmitch for all the bugs in universe and main.
* Hobbsee assigns them all to him.
<ajmitch> thanks
* ajmitch delegates the bug fixing to hobbsee
<ajmitch> as long as I get the karma, it's all good
* Hobbsee delegates it right back to ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> why would you need it?
<ajmitch> because I have none?
<spacey> i thought you had a million
<Hobbsee> he probably does - he certainly has enough pretty icons next to his name.
<spacey> hehe
<ajmitch> those are just teams I lurk in
<ajmitch> not actual work
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> gah, i wish people wouldnt just have debates about artwork, and not actually notify any of the devs who choose the artwork...makes it kinda pointless.
<ajmitch> heh
* Yagisan waves to ajmitch and Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey Yagisan!
<ajmitch> hello Yagisan
<Yagisan> hey guys. I had an interesting weekend. I got a shiny new irc cloak, became supreme overlord of an irc channel, and found a gpl violation on some of my code
<Yagisan> s/on some/of some
<Hobbsee> ouch
<ajmitch> exciting
<spacey> happy days
<Yagisan> yes indeed. I mean, I writre such bad code, why would you want to pretend it's yours
<crimsun> it has to be Hobbsee's fault; she's the only other .au person awake and typing in here right now
* crimsun flees
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee sets crimsun on fire, and uses him as a heater.
<spacey> Tue Jun 20 05:25:24 CEST 2006
<spacey> :o
<spacey> its already light here
* Yagisan starts warming his hands around the burning crimsun
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Yagisan> Don't you love it when people jump on irc and insult you thinking there are no ops around. Hey Yagisan you ************. Your laws don't apply in Sweden so ********* you"
<Hobbsee> hah, so you had the great enjoyment of booting them into the middle of next week?
<Hobbsee> i thought the gpl was applicable everywher.e.
<Hobbsee> maybe not
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I devoiced him, and he was promptly banned by all support forums by the mods whose stuff he also stole (and it wasn't all open source)
<Hobbsee> ah great
<spacey> kids :)
<spacey> need some slapping :)
<Yagisan> yep. He got scared when I cited case law that means I could sue his arse of fin Aus, and he'd have to come here and defend it.
<Yagisan> I've got logs og him begging forgiveness while I was asleep
<spacey> thats cute:)
* Yagisan forgot to set his away message, so he thought I was there
<Yagisan> anyone here been to the gccssp/proactive security bof (or whatever it was called this time) ?
<Yagisan> or are you all at home/work like me ?
<spacey> i'm at home/work
<spacey> i think the people in paris are sleeping
<spacey> since it 5:34 there
<spacey> just like here btw
<spacey> but i just can't sleep
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: IIRC ajmitch mentioned something about it
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I expect he would. I first met him when I turned up for that way back at UDU
<ajmitch> Yagisan: what about it?
<whiprush_> hi ajmitch
<Yagisan> ajmitch: was wondering how it was going (ie any better then the last time ? )
<ajmitch> all I know is basically what's on the wiki
<whiprush_> hey aj, I got a funny story for you ...
<ajmitch> uh oh
<whiprush_> So, I hung out with our ldap guy today...
<whiprush_> and I was like "hey man, aj is working on network auth for SoC, I think this FDS thing might happen..."
<Yagisan> ajmitch: ok.
<whiprush_> so he's like "hahaha, not really..."
<whiprush_> so I went to his desk, and he showed me what he had to do to get it to build.
<ajmitch> it's *evil*
<whiprush_> he showed me on rhel4, which is kind of "supported".
<whiprush_> we didn't even get to ubuntu, and I was weeping ...
<ajmitch> you're a broken man now?
<whiprush_> we kind of did an unformal estimate of what it would take to make it work.
<whiprush_> 3 guys, 6 months, or 1 dude, 2 years.
<whiprush_> that sound right?
<ajmitch> probably a bit less
<whiprush_> ajmitch: as a point of measurement, we pay $45k a year for a mirapoint applicant, which is openldap.
<whiprush_> RH charges $15k for their academic support.
<whiprush_> ajmitch: so all we need to do is find a nice midway point for support, and we can live like kings. :p
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> and I get peanuts to package it, right? ;)
<whiprush_> ajmitch: help me figure out how to win the lottery and you can keep all the FDS profit. :D
* Hobbsee points whiprush_ to the timemachine.
<ajmitch> thanks :)
<spacey> well thats easy
<spacey> be lucky
<whiprush_> ajmitch: to be honest, on paper I would have yelled "DO FDS DUDE!", but after seeing the amount of effort to make it work ... I don't envy your work this summer.
<ajmitch> yeah, I said from the start that I'd evaluate FDS
<ajmitch> but wouldn't necessarily choose it
<whiprush_> ugh, and I'm not a fan of openldap either.
<ajmitch> openldap is crap, really
<ajmitch> but it will have to suffice for now
<whiprush_> yeah, like I said, I don't envy your work this summer.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> after that I get to bum around & be an unemployed person
<whiprush_> how is FDS upstream? is there a community around it or is it a RH-only endeavor?
<ajmitch> afaik, it's fairly RH-centric
<whiprush_> ajmitch: well that's motivational ...
<ajmitch> yep :)
<whiprush_> ajmitch: now that I know what you're up against, I appreciate your work even more. :)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> that really inspires me
<ajmitch> I think I'll go & crawl under my bed now
<whiprush_> hey so I survived working 9000 and 9001 on gobby
<whiprush_> good idea for tomorrow?
<ajmitch> umm
<ajmitch> I guess?
<whiprush_> were you around for "Drinking from a Firehose"?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> that started at like 4AM here
<whiprush_> ah
<whiprush_> my teamspeak just stopped working about halfway through..
<Yagisan> ajmitch: did anyone test plone breezy -> dapper upgrades ?
<ajmitch> I don't know
<ajmitch> being universe, probably not
<Yagisan> ajmitch: ok. just FYI, is doesn't work, ate my site, and corrupted whatever plone stored my site in. And I could get a fresh dapper install running.
<ajmitch> excellent
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yep. I sent two bug reports, but I'm hoping edgy will be better.
<ajmitch> it'll be better if you test it
<Yagisan> ajmitch: the system is a frankenstein of breezy & dapper at the moment
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I don't like testing live sites. I'll try to get time to make a vmware system to test with, but there are so many places it can break
<ajmitch> so it breaks when you upgrade only that package, without upgrading the rest?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I found two packages that completely broke the system (as in site error). bugs filed. one of the other upgrades broke my rss feeds, and I haven't worked out which one that is yet
<ajmitch> I'm just surprised that you did a blind upgrade of a live site like that
<Yagisan> ajmitch: all of the breakage was in zope/plone packages
<Yagisan> ajmitch: it wasn't blind. I had a backup, but most of the time it works fine
<Yagisan> ajmitch: besides, I have faith in you
<ajmitch> s/have/had/, you mean
<Yagisan> ajmitch: so I guess that rules out dapper-updates then
<ajmitch> it's certainly ruled out when there's no clue as to what the bug is
<Yagisan> ajmitch: a sample would be Bug #49894
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49894 in zope-extendedpathindex "Upgrading from breezy to dapper causes a Site Error with plone." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49894
<Yagisan> ajmitch: it may make more sense to you
<ajmitch> yes, I was looking at those bugs
<ajmitch> but the problem is generally that you haven't run through the proper migration path
<ajmitch> since upgrading packages isn't enough
<ajmitch> you need to do stuff on the plone side
<Yagisan> ajmitch: such as ? (Why no prompt like other packages do)
<ajmitch> such as portal_migrations in the ZMI
* ajmitch has to head out now
<ajmitch> will be back in an hour or so
<Yagisan> no worries
* Yagisan is off to investigate why zope now hates his password
<ajmitch> because zope hates *
<ajmitch> it has a PhD in hating
<Yagisan> heh. caps lock :-*
<Hobbsee> um, we cant build edgy chroots at the moment, can we?
<crimsun> sure you can
<crimsun> meaning "dist-upgrade from dapper"
<crimsun> ah crap, more bugs
<Hobbsee> crimsun: http://pastebin.com/720186 is what i get
<Hobbsee> ah ok..
<crimsun> no, you can't create an edgy one from scratch
<crimsun> debootstrap hasn't been taught edgy yet
<Hobbsee> yep, right
<Hobbsee_> bleh, computer froze.
<whiprush_> hi crimsun
<whiprush_> crimsun: I am applying for grad school tomorrow, and I'm scared out of my mind. Tell me something to make me feel better. :)
<Yagisan> ah, the joys of applying for jobs overseas.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: computer freeze ? you must not be running ubuntu then ;)
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: heh, kubuntu.  and i'm not sure why it froze - i was copying files in konq as root, so...
<Yagisan> whiprush_: grad school ??
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: well, after you mentioned the word root, it all became clear. You were being punished by konq
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: with sudo :P
<Hobbsee> er, kdesu
<Yagisan> hmm. I need a photo with my resume. I need someone with good gimp/photoshop skills to make me look good then
<robitaille> whiprush_: grad school is not that scary :)
<crimsun> whiprush_: applying's not the hard part. Staying focused during your last quarter/semester is. :)
<whiprush_> robitaille/crimsun: the oss-friendlt prof is moving on this semester, so I'm kind of scared. :-/
<crimsun> nah, don't be. Ideology (at least in IT) doesn't get you a degree. :)
<robitaille> I have fond memories of my grad years; a lot of work...but a lot of good friends and parties...and I met my wife in grad school
<robitaille> Of course now I barely use at work what I learned in grad school...
<whiprush_> I'm just concerned that people who sponsored my (as staff) trips to OSS conferences in the past are gone, and I'm kind of stuck working on non-OSS stuff.
<whiprush_> on the plus side I'm looking forward to TA'ing stuff that lets me expose people to oss.
<robitaille> grad school is only a small part of your life;  even if you end up doing some non-oss stuff for a bit, you will have many years afterward to do what you really want to do the way you want
<robitaille> and personally I hated TAing :)
<whiprush_> robitaille: yeah, I just kind of wish that academia was more OSS-friendly than it currently is.
<whiprush_> robitaille: I'm rambling though, I've whined about it on my blog for a long time....
<robitaille> and I wish governments where a bit more oss as well since that's where I work now;  life is never a perfect
<whiprush_> heh
<crimsun> whiprush_: most of my research is now 60/40 closed/floss, but nearly all of my non-work time is floss
<whiprush_> :-/
<crimsun> there are countless conferences, too, and many of them are floss-friendly if not downright floss entirely
* ajmitch is back
<crimsun> wb
<Yagisan> wb ajmitch
<neutrinomass> If a bug is open in Ubuntu, but Debian has a newer version of the package that fixes it, what do we do (considering that edgy syncs haven't started) ?
<Hobbsee> neutrinomass: wait until the edgy syncs start, i think
<crimsun> you mark it Fix Committed with the explanation that the newer version will be synced/merged.
<crimsun> you have my permission to subscribe me to any bugs that fall into that category.
<neutrinomass> OK, thanks crimsun and Hobbsee (it's just a change in build options that fixes a crasher :-/ )
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Will do, thanks a lot :)
<ajmitch> edgy syncs have started, but the builds have been failing
<sladen> neutrinomass: ideally we get the bug fixed in dapper;  either by backporting the fix, or synching a new version.  Depending on (a) the severity of the issue, and (b) the intrusiveness just syncing the new version
<crimsun> if it's something as trivial as adjusting debian/rules, and the adjustment is proven safe (backward compatible, if that makes any sense in that context), then it's a good candidate for dapper-updates
<neutrinomass> sladen: (a) It renders 'freewheeling' (some random application that crimsun might know) unusable for at least x86 and (b) It affects nothing else. Seems that I was a little bit off though - I'm not yet absolutely sure it's fixed in Debian, I'm looking into it now ...
<TheMuso> Morning all.
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> How is it in Sydney on this Tuesday afternoon?
<Hobbsee> cold?
<ajmitch> bah
<ajmitch> you call that cold...
* Hobbsee has been fighting multiple pbuilders, but suceeded :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: it got down to -7 in parts of dunedin last night :P
<Hobbsee> ouch!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes.  i call that cold, and your -7 freezing :P
* neutrinomass notes in passing that it was 35C in greece yesterday :P
<Hobbsee> neutrinomass: got a plane ticket to greece?
<neutrinomass> Hobbsee: I live in Greece :P
<Hobbsee> neutrinomass: so i figured :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: so when are you coming to visit NZ?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no idea, when i get an invite?
<ajmitch> you don't have to be invited to come over
<Hobbsee> true
<crimsun> mmm nope, not a good idea to attempt to backport fixes now.
<ajmitch> crimsun: why so?
<crimsun> tired, don't trust eyes-fingers [lack of]  coordination
<ajmitch> ah :)
* Hobbsee offers crimsun a nice cold bucket of icy water
<crimsun> that'll do nicely with the smouldering embers in my hair, thanks Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> Hobbsee setting your hair on fire as well?
<Hobbsee_> ajmitch, no, i dont think so...it'd take a little long to grow back
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> bonjour!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee_: your hair might - crimsun's is probably a little shorter
<Hobbsee> true
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: what's happening at the moment?
<jsgotangco> we're just discussing on how a spec should be made
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> I thought it might be the daily intro time
<jsgotangco> the summary would probably be moved at the bottom
<jsgotangco> we don't have a sched yet
<ajmitch> there's a schedule up already
<ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/schedule/2006-06-20/
<jsgotangco> oh wait
<ajmitch> not sure if it's what you're using or not :)
<jsgotangco> yeah i just looked at it
<ajmitch> heh
<jsgotangco> merci
<ajmitch> clever
<neutrinomass> Apparently debian build-options are not honoured by Ubuntu (or I'm doing something wrong...) .... bug 28560 : Compiling with -O0 and no -f options fixes it ...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28560 in freewheeling "Abort at startup: *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28560
<ajmitch> dholbach!!
<ajmitch> morning daniel :)
<ajmitch> hey ogra
<ogra> hi ajmitch
<dholbach> hi ajmitch!
<Hobbsee> hey ogra
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach
<crimsun> neutrinomass: so stripping optimisations, essentially?
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Yes. It segfaults with -O1 as well. The Debian changelog says that -finline-functions was removed, along with -O0. I just realised that I didn't build the package correctly (I did ./configure instead of using the debian-way) but -O2 and no f* options fixes the problem.
<crimsun> neutrinomass: ok (you didn't subscribe me ;)
<crimsun> that's sane enough for dapper-updates imo
<neutrinomass> crimsun: It just finished building, I haven't even commented on it :P
<crimsun> Edgy will be automagically fixed
<neutrinomass> crimsun: debian bug 328276 - As I said before , I'm not sure the fixes are in the Debian package - the bug was closed last november, but 0.5pre4-5 has never hit the debian archives (Unless it is a mystical codename for 0.5 -PRE instead of 0.5.4 - PRE , in which case the bug was never fixed)
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 328276 in freewheeling "Subject: freewheeling: it does not start." [Grave,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/328276
<crimsun> neutrinomass: it did. [2006-01-30]  Accepted 0.5pre4-5 in unstable (low) (Paul Brossier)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: speak up, we can't hear you :)
<crimsun> hmm, that's a bit more intrusive than I'd like
<Hobbsee> rofl!
<ajmitch> :)
<crimsun> I'd defer that [0.5.2a-1]  to a candidate for dapper-backports
<neutrinomass> So the packages here http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=freewheeling are later versions ? Then something went wrong, because they crash as well ...
<crimsun> seeing how 0.5pre4-5 doesn't just touch debian/rules
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Well, the rest of the changelog is pretty irrelevant - the problem is fixed just by changing build options ...
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I'll try & avoid the australian heckling today
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: :P
* Hobbsee wont be here for much longer anyway
<crimsun> neutrinomass: http://packages.qa.debian.org/f/freewheeling.html is your friend :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: work calls?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, bible study
<ajmitch> ah right
<Hobbsee> work was last night
<neutrinomass> crimsun: True, it seems helpful ;) - so a regression?
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Sorry, missed the -O2 part : "Switched back to -O2" in 0.5.2-1
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Heh, intended breakage then
<crimsun> neutrinomass: well, the only relevant part is what is in Dapper vs. what was fixed in Debian immediately prior
<crimsun> and since Dapper has 0.5pre4-5build1, there's something amiss
<crimsun> oh wait
<crimsun> this bug report is ooooold
<crimsun> dolson: ping
<crimsun> dolson: can you confirm that bug 28560 is no longer an issues on current Dapper?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28560 in freewheeling "Abort at startup: *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28560
<crimsun> s/issues/issue/
<neutrinomass> crimsun: I can reproduce it! Judging from the dates, this was originally reported against 0.5pre4-4 at latest...
<neutrinomass> crimsun: No backtraces though, so my rcashing may be a different problem that gets fixed with -O0 (lol, how many of these could there be? ):-/
<crimsun> err, no, this can't be the debian/rules from 0.5pre4-5
<crimsun> nope, it looks it is. But there's no change for -O0
<neutrinomass> crimsun: From what I understand: app crashes on startup with version 0.5pre4-4. DD fixes the problem in 0.5pre4-5, but then (thinking that upstream fixed it maybe?) returns to using 0.5.2-1 with -O2 which brings the problem back again. We're currently in 0.5.2a-1 that still crashes, and can get fixed with -O2. Some guy said that this is not a problem with GCC3.3, so maybe the DD built it with that and thought it was OK
<neutrinomass> "can get fixed with -O2" ---> "can get fixed by using -O0"
<crimsun> no.
<crimsun> crimsun@garnish:/tmp/freewheeling-0.5pre4$ apt-cache madison freewheeling
<crimsun> freewheeling | 0.5pre4-5build1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Packages
<crimsun> freewheeling | 0.5pre4-5build1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources
<LaserJock> hello MOTUs!
<crimsun> hi
<LaserJock> hi crimsun
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: where did you go?
<LaserJock> when?
<jsgotangco> today?
<neutrinomass> crimsun: I'm new to debian/ubuntu and you know better than me :) But at the LP page I see Current version: 0.5.2a-1 :-/
<LaserJock> umm, I went to lunch and now I'm sitting a couple tables behind you
<jsgotangco> we thought you went mad and ran from the hotel looking for a big mac for breakfast
<LaserJock> hehehe
<crimsun> neutrinomass: from all respects, what Dapper has is 0.5pre4-5 (the build1 suffix was tacked on for "fakesyncing" when soyuz wasn't fully cooperating iirc)
<LaserJock> I just email my wife about that. I think I could probably walk all the way to the airport for a Big Mac or Pizza Hut
<crimsun> neutrinomass: 0.5.2a-1 is the current Sid source package version
<zakame> hi all
<crimsun> neutrinomass: according to the Debian changelog for 0.5pre4-5, the crashers were fixed via removing -f and using -O0
<ajmitch> LaserJock: typical culture shocked tourist ;)
<crimsun> neutrinomass: however, this is where the difference between uploading binaries and sources comes into play. Notice how only Makefile is modified.
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Yes, sorry, you're right ...
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I guess, I'm starving, they must not feed a lot of fat people in Paris ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how good is your french for ordering a pizza? :)
<crimsun> neutrinomass: since for Dapper source is uploaded, we'll need to adjust Makefile.in
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hehe, I can point and wave my hands around
<ajmitch> hehe
<LaserJock> ajmitch: GIVE ME FOOD!
<crimsun> neutrinomass: which explains why you're still seeing the crashers, because -fblah and -O2 are still being used
<crimsun> (since ./configure will eventually chain down to Makefile.in)
<neutrinomass> crimsun: I've got 0.5pre4-5build1 and ./configure make compiled with -O2 by default ... In the meantime I still have a lot to learn :) : Isn't debian/rules supposed to control how stuff is built without needing to edit the Makefile.in ?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: and I'm sitting here eating my dinner.. what a shame :)
<LaserJock> doh
<ajmitch> a good thing teamspeak isn't voice-activated on my laptop ;)
<Hobbsee> haha
<crimsun> neutrinomass: occasionally Makefile.in will need to be edited
<crimsun> neutrinomass: was gcc using -fblah, too?
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Thanks a lot for your patience and help.
<crimsun> (I suspect yes)
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Yes.... but I think no -finline-functions
<crimsun> ok, then it's possible to just force -O0
<TheMuso> Ah come on LaserJock. The food isn't that bad.
<LaserJock> TheMuso:  the bloody raw beef wasn't too bad for you last night?
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Of course, I have no idea how to do that ... want me to assign it to you ?
<crimsun> that's "art", dude.
<crimsun> neutrinomass: I am already subbed and will look later this evening after my plane lands.
<TheMuso> I didn't mind it at all.
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: i didnt eat it at all
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Ok, have a nice journey :) Thanks again!
<TheMuso> I don't think it was raw either, but I don't know what it looked like.
<TheMuso> maybe it is better I didn't.
<jsgotangco> it looked raw
<jsgotangco> just sliced so thin
<LaserJock> TheMuso: yes it is, it was raw and bloody on the bottom
<TheMuso> Tasted fine to me.
<LaserJock> I did 1 bite and ate the salad ;-)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<TheMuso> heh.
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> had a lot of bread too
<TheMuso> They seem to like that here.
<jsgotangco> yes
<TheMuso> Breakfast is quite nice as well.
<TheMuso> But I gues I am just not fussy when it comes to food.
<slomo> LaserJock: yes the beef was really bad ;)
<LaserJock> sladen: good, at least I wasn't making it up
<LaserJock> slomo I mean
<LaserJock> stupid xchat
<slomo> hehe
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hey, it's better than fish for each & every meal :)
<LaserJock> yes
<ajmitch> I'm sure jsgotangco has fond memories of that
<LaserJock> at least breakfast is good
<jsgotangco> fish...
<jsgotangco> breakfast is always the same though
<ajmitch> in montreal, it was chinese food for lunch every day
<slomo> jsgotangco: but at least you have some choice :)
<jsgotangco> there's a small chinese restaurant at the village outside
<LaserJock> slomo: exactly
<TheMuso> I'll probably be sick of breakfast in a few days though
<ajmitch> by then you can go home :)
<TheMuso> eh yeah
<Mithrandir> and then you can be sick of plane food instead! :-)
<TheMuso> heh
<ajmitch> dholbach: is gobby working properly?
<dholbach> no :-/
<ajmitch> darn
<ajmitch> but the BOF session has started?
<ajmitch> dholbach! welcome back :)
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> how much of this do we want to split between 2 gobby documents?
<shawarma> LaserJock: Didn't you say you weren't going to be here?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I didn't think I was
<LaserJock> but I am
<ajmitch> heh
<shawarma> coolness
<ajmitch> confused about the state of things today?
<ajmitch> this is a very quiet BOF from my end :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<ajmitch> hm, what silent BOF should I 'listen' in on now?
<sivang> ajmitch: they all seem silent :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> this teamspeak experiment was interesting for awhile, but doesn't seem to really work yet
<ajmitch> not until there's software that everyone can use, and everyone has a headset or something :)
<sivang> ajmitch: indeed :-)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Yeah. As far as I know, powerpc users are left out in the cold.
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> and it's OSS-using
<ajmitch> which gives a few issues
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<Fujitsu> OSS-using is an issue?
<Fujitsu> Oh, you mean OSS as opposed to ALSA?
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Yes.
<Fujitsu> Teamspeak is proprietary, isn't it?
<Fujitsu> Hi, Kamping_Kaiser.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Got a shiny new cloak, I see.
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh. no more will you see my ISP *mwhahaha*
<Fujitsu> Nooooo.
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<ajmitch> oh what a shame
<Kamping_Kaiser> :P
<Kamping_Kaiser> bbs
<zul> hey
<imbrandon> moins
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch how did the easymotu go? i missed it
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
* imbrandon is trying to dig up all the info from yesterdays meetings so he can post a summary 
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<dholbach> re!
<tseng> hi dholbach
<Fujitsu> Hi, zul.
<zul> hey Fujitsu
<pianoboy3333> Has anyone made a deb for libnotify 0.4.2?
<pianoboy3333> Does anyone know where I can search for a libnotify deb?
<pianoboy3333> Where can I learn about building libraries?
<zul> heylo
<zul> hmnm...quiet
<Hobbsee> hi all
<zul> hey
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi LaserJock and zul
<pschulz01> #ubuntu-au
<pschulz01> doh!
<kelmo> heh, is there an au channel? ;-)
<_ion> #ubuntu-english
<kelmo> _ion: that was more a remark than a question
<Hobbsee> kelmo: yeah :P
<pschulz01> kelmo: suffering from fast fingers.
<ajmitch>  hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hey
<zakame> hi all
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<Hobbsee> hi zakame
* ajmitch spots a Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee is spotted!  argh!
* Hobbsee is in shock.
* Hobbsee saw a picture of herself where she actually looked pretty.
<ajmitch> you mean all of them?
<zakame> hi aj	Ho	
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> classic signs of broken tabcompletion
<zakame> erm ajmitch, Hobbsee
<zakame> heh, I'm just a screen :P
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, not all of them :P
<zakame> anyhow, I missed the MOTU BOF right?
<ajmitch> yep
<Hobbsee> zakame: there's stuff on gobby about it , it looked interesting
<ajmitch> it was fairly hard to follow from the outside anyway
<zakame> how did it go
<zakame> ?
<ajmitch> alright I guess
<zakame> wb jsgotangco
<ajmitch> looks like they're still having network issues
<jsgotangco> yeah
<zakame> yeah, jerome told me they had to switch rooms for the different meets, no wireless
<jsgotangco> zakame: there is wireless but since we use TS, we have a lot of switches here per table and its much faster than the wireless itself
<ajmitch> you actually use TS?
<jsgotangco> at the moment yes, we're working on an LTSP lab at the moment
<zakame> jsgotangco: TeamSpeak, I gather?
<ajmitch> one of the few BOFs that does then
<jsgotangco> go to edubuntu dynamic menus channel
<kelmo> siretart: hi! alive?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch_: ping?
<zakame> erm, I hope he is :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: yes?
<kelmo> zakame: maybe a better question was "wanna chat?" ;-) i trust he is still living
<zakame> hehehe
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zul> hey
<bddebian> Hi zul
<bddebian> Is everyone in Paris currently?
<tseng> no
<zul> no
<tseng> i am right her
<tseng> e
<bddebian> Bah, who are you two? ;-P
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<tseng> uh
<bddebian> What I meant was, is it going on right now?
<tseng> yes obviouslyt
<Hobbsee> hi tseng and zul and bddebian
<tseng> its the middle of the day
<tseng> EST + 6
<bddebian> tseng: I have been out, I couldn't remember the dates d00d :-)
<tseng> d00d?
* tseng dies
<Hobbsee> bddebian: almost 5pm in paris,
<bddebian> hehe
* Hobbsee hopes that next conference they'll be more successful with online collaboration at meetings
<bddebian> tseng: 1 4r3 l33t d00d
* Hobbsee smacks some sense into bddebian 
<bddebian> hehe
<tseng> Hobbsee++
<_ion> ion--
<Hobbsee> :D
<bddebian> I thought that absence was supposed ot make the heart grow fonder and I still get no love :-)
<tseng> haha
* Hobbsee hugs the now sensible bddebian 
<Hobbsee> there you go :)
<Hobbsee> we do love you - just not that awful number mangling.
* bddebian hugs Hobbsee back
<zakame> hmm malone  569 is pretty old for a High bug now
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 569 in firestarter "Firestarter Help runs Firefox as root" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/569
<zakame> hi bddebian dholbach
<dholbach> heya zakame
<bddebian> Heya zakame
* bddebian hugs dholbach
<bddebian> zakame: Aye, I have been trying to clean up a lot of the 'old' bugs
* zakame hugs bddebian and dholbach, one at a time :p
<zakame> bddebian: patch looks ok, right?
<bddebian> zakame: Dunno but considering it's 'age', is it even still a bug anymore?
<_ion> [bddebian, dholback] .each {|him| zakame.hug him }
<zakame> bddebian: yeah, haven't reproduced that tough, actually I've just taken a fresh look at the list, been out for so long
<bddebian> zakame: You are the X master now? ;-)
<zakame> _ion: python, I gather?
<_ion> zakame: Nope. Ruby.
<zakame> bddebian: erm no, catching up on that too
<bddebian> :-)
<_ion> zakame: Python doesn't have such a cool syntax for giving a code block as a parameter to a method call. :-)
<zakame> _ion: ooh! I should learn
<_ion> zakame: Some Ruby propaganda written by me: http://johan.kiviniemi.name/stuff/python-ruby/
<zakame> _ion: I don't grok Python much too, as I've been working in Perl lately :/
<neutrinomass> zakame: (regarding firestarter) The patch is sort of OK: it slightly changes the behaviour for some reason (gnome_open_url() would launch XFCE here, whereas now Firefox is launched) . Not sure why though ...
<zakame> bddebian: then again the patch for 569 was made _today_ , its even on gnome-bugs
<bddebian> Oh, hehe
<zakame> neutrinomass: oh, in XFCE? that's odd
<neutrinomass> zakame: Sorry, Galeon ... :P
<zakame> ah
<zakame> wb jsgotangco
<neutrinomass> zakame: Maybe because I was on gnome, with firefox "default", but with "don't check for bring default browser" enabled. I install Xfce, galeon becomes "default" and now in gnome the "default" browser is still galeon, since firefox hasn't checked whether it is default, but for some reason file associations have remained with Gnome. As long as it opens though, I don't think its a big issue ...
* jsgotangco hates this moving to different rooms
<zakame> neutrinomass: yes, that's probably the case
<zakame> anyhow the function looks good enough, it does seem to drop privileges
<neutrinomass> zakame: Oh, damn. I missed one call to gnome_url_show .... give me a sec please
<zakame> neutrinomass: of course, if you can test it with an actual build that's better, I'm still rebuilding my chroots :/
<neutrinomass> zakame: I verified that it works correctly yesterday before submitting ... unless I missed something :-/
<neutrinomass> zakame: gnome_url_show is used in src/preferences.c as well. This means that I have to change browser_open to be non-static ---> maybe move it to util.c or is that too intrusive ?
<zakame> hmm either way you'll still be touching a couple of files
<neutrinomass> zakame: Ok, new patch attached ...
<azeem> anybody know kbrooks?
<bddebian> Oh man that name sounds familiar.. Hmm
<azeem> 18:05 [OPN]  -!- kbrooks [n=kbrooks@easyubuntu/developer/kbrooks] 
<azeem> he trolled big time on #debian in both networks and corrupted the bot fact database
<neutrinomass> azeem: Don't know him personally but I've seen him many times in #ubuntu ...
<azeem> ok
<Hawkwind> He's famous for trolling actually.  He used to do it when he ran Mandrake as well
<phanatic> hi everyone
<Spec> hello
<Hobbsee> azeem: yeah, has been helping out recently IIRC
* Hobbsee does rmemeber the nick to do with trolling, actually
<azeem> well, he was pretty cunningly trolling the channel, but we found out later that he messed up all the useful factoids of the infobot
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<azeem> 07:50 < stew> !oftc move
<azeem> 07:50 < dpkg> extra, extra, read all about it, oftc move is fuck you, debian, for moving #debian to irc.oftc.net. FUCK OFF
<azeem> 07:50 < stew> !factinfo oftc move
<azeem> 07:50 < dpkg> oftc move -- last modified 7h 23m 5s ago  by kbrooks!n=kbrooks@easyubuntu/developer/kbrooks; it has been requested 7 times, last by stew, 10s ago.
<azeem> anyway, thanks
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<Hobbsee> azeem: bot has access control now :)
<azeem> Hobbsee: the bot in #debian I mean
<azeem> it's a different one I think
<Hobbsee> oh ok
<Hobbsee> yeah
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<Goshawk> can someone help me here with pbuilder?
<zul>  /join #ubuntu-meeting
<zul> oops..
<Gloubiboulga> Goshawk, I can't right now, but certainly in ~20 minutes
<Goshawk> Gloubiboulga: thanks
<Goshawk> btw my problem is crosscompiling with pbuilder
<Goshawk> i'm on x86_64 (amd64)
<Goshawk> and i'm compiling gdc (the gnu D compiler frontend for gcc)
<Goshawk> but i need a x86 environment
<Goshawk> so i did:
<Goshawk> sudo pbuilder create --distribution dapper --debootstrapopts --arch --debootstrapopts i386 --basetgz /var/cache/pbuilder/base-i386.tgz --mirror http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
<Goshawk> but when i build i get error about some packages that do not exist for this arch
<Goshawk> now i'm creating a new i386 image with sudo linux32 pbuilder create ............. with all the upper options
<Gloubiboulga> Goshawk, I've never used that but the syntax should not be '--debootstrapopts --arch i386' ?
<Goshawk> Gloubiboulga: i thought as you, but i got that options from the pbuilder user manual
<Goshawk> to build a different arch basefile
<Gloubiboulga> hmm ok
<Goshawk> maybe with the linux32 now should work
<Goshawk> i'm waiting until it finishes
<Gloubiboulga> Goshawk, did it work?
<Goshawk> Gloubiboulga: wait
<Goshawk> Gloubiboulga: no same error
<Gloubiboulga> hm
<Goshawk> i'm putting all in pastebin.ca
<Goshawk> http://paste.ubuntu.org.cn/523
<Goshawk> E: Couldn't find package libc6-dev-i386
<Gloubiboulga> hmm, is this package listed in your build-depends line?
<Goshawk> yep
<Goshawk> but it's with a |
<Goshawk> -> Considering  libc6.1-dev (>= 2.3.5-1ubuntu5) [alpha ia64]  | libc0.3-dev (>= 2.3.5-1ubuntu5) | libc0.1-dev (>= 2.3.5-1ubuntu5) | libc12-dev (>= 2.3.5-1ubuntu5) | libc6-dev (>= 2.3.5-1ubuntu5
<Goshawk> Gloubiboulga: i'm doing pbuilder login
<Goshawk> to see what's wrong
<Goshawk> libc6-dev is already the newest version.
<Gloubiboulga> I don't why it wants to install libc6-dev-i386
<Gloubiboulga> don't know*
<Goshawk> #
<Goshawk> -> Considering libc6-dev-i386 [amd64] 
<Goshawk> #
<Goshawk> -> Trying libc6-dev-i386
<Goshawk> #
<Goshawk> -> Cannot install libc6-dev-i386; apt errors follow:
<Goshawk> here is the error
<Goshawk> it should follow this one;:
<Goshawk> #
<Goshawk> -> Considering libc6-dev-amd64 [i386] 
<Goshawk> #
<Goshawk> -> This package is not for this architecture
<Goshawk> how can i see what's my arch?
<Gloubiboulga> very good question
<Goshawk> uname -m
<Goshawk> and maybe i found what's wrong
<Goshawk>  uname -m
<Goshawk> i686
<Goshawk> but
<Goshawk> #
<Goshawk> -> Considering libc6-dev-amd64 [i386] 
<Goshawk> #
<Goshawk> -> This package is not for this architecture
<Goshawk> because it sees i686 instead of i386
<Goshawk> i'm changing it
<Goshawk> Gloubiboulga: do you have i386? can you do uname -m please?
<Gloubiboulga> i686
<Gloubiboulga> Goshawk, sorry I can't help about this cross compiling I guess
<Goshawk> Gloubiboulga: ok thanks anyway
<Goshawk> time to go for me
<Goshawk> thanks
<pianoboy3333> Can you guys be sure to put notify-python, the new libnotify and notification-daemons in edgy?
<bddebian> pianoboy3333: Are they in Debian?
<pianoboy3333> Hmmm... not sure, I don't use debian
<bddebian> OK, what version are you speaking of?
<pianoboy3333> The new libnotify is 0.4.2, notify-python is new, that's only version 1.0, and the new notification-daemon is 3.5 I believe, you can take a look at http://www.galago-project.org/
<bddebian> Ah, Debian has 0.4.0-1
<bddebian> of libnotify
<pianoboy3333> I'm just saying, cause I wanted to start developing some stuff with notify-python, but I couldn't cause dapper has 0.3.4 or .2
<Gloubiboulga> yep, 0.3.2
<bddebian> pianoboy3333: Your best bet would be to check and/or enter a bug report requesting the new version
<pianoboy3333> Right, and notify-python needs at least 0.4
<pianoboy3333> I wish I could build deb packages :(
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, it's a good occasion to start packaging ;)
<bddebian> Yeah :-)
<bddebian> pianoboy3333: Well you should at least get 0.4 from Debian in Edgy
<pianoboy3333> I've tried, but I fail every single time I try, for example, I tried doing alltray today..... Does anyone know of a good program I can practice on?
<bddebian> Xorg
* bddebian hides
<bddebian> j/k, Don't start with X :-)
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, you could start with upgrading libnotify
<Gloubiboulga> you get the current source package, look at it, ask questions here if it's not clear, and create a new package for the latest release
<pianoboy3333> Isn't libraries harder than binaries?
<pianoboy3333> *Aren't
<Gloubiboulga> well, not really, you just have to understand how to build 2 binaries from 1 source package
<Gloubiboulga> it's not that hard imo (checking the sources ;))
<pianoboy3333> ok, lemme try libnotify
<pianoboy3333> ok, I have the source, and I've extracted it now?
<pianoboy3333> :)
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, did you 'apt-get source libnotify' or you got the upstream tarball?
<pianoboy3333> the bunzip from the galago homepage
<pianoboy3333> of the newest
<Gloubiboulga> ok, you should 'apt-get source libnotify' and look what's in the source package
<Sp4rKy> does anyone package audacious ?
<Sp4rKy> or can i do it ?
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: ok, one moment
<Hawkwind> Sp4rKy: I was looking at possibly packaging it some day.  Just no time at the moment.  I know if you do I want the debs as I really want audacious
<Sp4rKy> k , so i'll try to do it :)
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: ok, look at what in the source pacakge?
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, the important part is the debian/ folder
<pianoboy3333> ok
<Hawkwind> Sp4rKy: Let me know if you get it built please.  I really would like a copy of the debs
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, I've just seen than libnotify is in main, so you'll have to talk to the main devs to get it in edgy
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, but anyway, it's a good way to practice ;)
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: I don't care, if I can just use this for my self it's fine
<Sp4rKy> Hawkwind, if you really want a deb for installation on your own system , i can send you in few minutes
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: ok, so there are a few files in the debian folder
<Hawkwind> Sp4rKy: Thanks.  That would be great
<Sp4rKy> Hawkwind, but if you want  good deb(s) for REVU wait a little bit more please
<Hawkwind> Sp4rKy: Heh ok.  Either way is fine :)
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, yep, if you've already tried to build packages I guess you already know what most of these files are for, right?
<Sp4rKy> Hawkwind, if you just want audacious , why don't you simply compil it ?
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: uhhh, some of them
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, which ones don't you know?
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: control tells about the project, rules is like the makefile for it, changelog is the changelog, copyright normally has the gnu
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: what's the control.in, the .install files,  and notify-send.1, and the compat file
<Hawkwind> Sp4rKy: I'd prefer to stick with just debs and not compile anything if I don't have to
<Sp4rKy> k
<Sp4rKy> i'm packaging :)
<Sp4rKy> please, what is the package i need for gtk+-2.0 ?
<tseng> libgtk2.0-dev
<Sp4rKy> k , thx
<tseng> (please direct future questions to #ubuntu)
<tseng> oh
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, look at the diff between control & control.in, you'll see :) notify-send.1 is a manpage, compat the file which contains the debhelper compatibility
<tseng> sorry you are right, i am in the wrong tab
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, .install files install files in a particular package (files listed in libnotify-bin.install will be installed in the libnotify-bin binary package)
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: control.in has some spots for the configure script to fill it
<pianoboy3333> *in
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: ok, so now what, go to the new download and do a dh_make and select library?
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, nop, you'll just update the package withh uupdate
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: ok, how?
<Sp4rKy> again a answer , for B-D , i need <package> or <package-dev> ?
<Gloubiboulga> juste 'cd libnotify-0.3.2 && uupdate ../libnotify-<new_version>.tag.gz'
<Gloubiboulga> just*
<pianoboy3333> Sp4rKy: a -dev package is for compiling the program a regular package is for running it
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: it's update or uupdate?
<Sp4rKy> pianoboy3333, k , thx
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, uupdate
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: ok, now?
<pianoboy3333> I did that
<Gloubiboulga> go into the new directory created (you have seen a message about this new directory)
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: righrt
<Gloubiboulga> and then edit debian/changelog
<pianoboy3333> ok
<pianoboy3333> It put me in there
<Gloubiboulga> you already have a new entry
<pianoboy3333> yes
<Gloubiboulga> you just have to edit it with your name, and add details if you want/need to
<pianoboy3333> my name is in there and everything alread
<pianoboy3333> y
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: one more thing, it said on the release, as a note: Add G_BEGIN_DECLS and G_END_DECLS to notify.h, so that libnotify can be used in C++ applications properly.
<Gloubiboulga> hum ok
<Gloubiboulga> you need to patch the sources for this
<Gloubiboulga> I'll let you find how to do this 'cause I won't have enough time
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, have you read the Packaging Guide on the wiki?
<pianoboy3333> no
<Gloubiboulga> you should ;)
<Gloubiboulga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide
<Gloubiboulga> actually it's just a spec...
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: I read the debian new maintainers guide
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<pianoboy3333> that wasn't too helpful though, it was good
<Gloubiboulga> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<Gloubiboulga> this could help you I guess
<pianoboy3333> Gloubiboulga: if you want to see that file, notify.h has been posted to http://pastebin.com/721720
<pianoboy3333> I don't know what it means to add those two things though
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, those things are allready added, you don't have to worry about this
<pianoboy3333> ok
<Gloubiboulga> pianoboy3333, you just have to create the source package and then build it now, I think it's clearly explained in the doc
<Gloubiboulga> and I have to go...
<pianoboy3333> yes, I used dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot to build it
<Gloubiboulga> yep, but the source package is also very important :)
<crimsun> yay for airports
<imbrandon> moins crimsun
<crimsun> moins *
<Gloubiboulga> hey crimsun, imbrandon
<imbrandon> hello Gloubiboulga
<crimsun> 'lo
<pianoboy3333> weird, notification-daemon has a problem patching
<Sp4rKy> Hawkwind, if you want i've a package for audacious, but i warn you : it isn't a "advocatable" package , do yo want it ?
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: why not put it on REVU so it can be made an advocate-candidate?
<crimsun> audacious is pretty straightforward to package
<Sp4rKy> crimsun, i'm creating a "good"  package,
<Sp4rKy> and i'll put it later
<crimsun> so just put the good one up there
<Sp4rKy> but actually it's not correct for advocate, but Hawkwind want a .deb to install audacious , so ...
<Sp4rKy> crimsun, but if you want advocate my packages , you can take a look at devede , yersinia , planfacile :)
<Sp4rKy> and later audacious i hope :)
<crimsun> I can look later, sure.
<Sp4rKy> :)
<crimsun> I can post my audacious and bmpx and give them to you for general maint if you'd like
<Sp4rKy> you've create a package for audacious ?
<crimsun> yes, months ago
<Sp4rKy> so why don't you dput it ?
<crimsun> UVF and FF
<Sp4rKy> sorry  , what'd UVF and FF ?
<crimsun> upstream version freeze and feature freeze, respectively
<crimsun> for the Dapper cycle I didn't do much in the way of packaging because I spent so much time with audio
<Sp4rKy> k
<Sp4rKy> so if you could send me your old package of audacious, and i use it if i can't package it myself :)
<crimsun> I can post it sometime tonight when I have more reliable Internet access
<Sp4rKy> k :)
<Sp4rKy> i'm try to create 3 debs from audacious with dh_install ...
<crimsun> where'd you split them?
<Sp4rKy> audacious (bin) , lib and lib-dev ...
<Sp4rKy> wrong ?
<crimsun> it's semantically correct, but does anything actually justify the lib* split?
<Sp4rKy> Gloubiboulga said me i should split them
<Sp4rKy> do you think i can create a single deb
<crimsun> right, that's semantically correct, as I mentioned previously, but does anything actually use libaudacious-dev, for instance?
<crimsun> external plugins and so on
<Sp4rKy> there is some external plugins
<Sp4rKy> /home/max/audatmp/usr/lib/audacious/Input:
<Sp4rKy> libaac.so  libcdaudio.so  libconsole.so  libmpg123.so  libsexypsf.so  libtimidity.so  libtonegen.so  libvorbis.so  libwav.so  libwma.so
<Sp4rKy> for example
<crimsun> err, those are internal to audacious, though
<Sp4rKy> oups, so where external lib could be located ?
<crimsun> it would be something that an external app/lib could use
<crimsun> libaudacious
<Sp4rKy> so actually you think i don't need to split audacious in several debs ?
<crimsun> audacious fits closely to xmms's packaging style
<crimsun> where there's no real need to have a libaudacious, but an audacious-dev is conceivable
<Sp4rKy> and what could be put in audacious-dev so ?
<crimsun> header file and the static lib
<crimsun> files^
<phanatic> evening raphink
<raphink> hi phanatic
<phanatic> raphink: could you make it to uds?
<raphink> no
<raphink> I'm in Cannes now
<phanatic> :( that means you're working?
<raphink> yep
<raphink> well quite
<raphink> it's my first week working
<raphink> so I'm not doing much yet
<Sp4rKy> crimsun, static are .so ?
<crimsun> .a
<crimsun> ok, plane's boarding, better scoot
<phanatic> raphink: i wish you all the best then for your new work ;)
<raphink> thanks
<bddebian> You're welcome :)
<Sp4rKy> hi bddebian
<Sp4rKy> crimsun, thx , i'll try :)
<bddebian> Heya Sp4rKy, how goes the battle? :-)
<phanatic> hey bddebian :)
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, good, i've dput 3 ackages actually (devede , yersinia & planfacile) and work on audacious
<Sp4rKy> crimsun, thx for your help , i've wrote all you said, and i'll work on audacious tomorrow , but now i really must to sleep :)
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: good stuff!
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, thx :)
<Sp4rKy> really ?
<bddebian> Of course
<Sp4rKy> :D
<Sp4rKy> Gloubiboulga, helps me for devede and yersinia, so i think there are correct , but no help for planfacile , so ...
<linuxmonkey> can anyone help me, imbrandon was helping me setup chroots: im at the point were I do sudo chroot /var/chroot/edgy32/ and then apt-get update ...is this were I edit the sources file and do dist-upgrade or just when im all done
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-21
<bddebian> Heya gang
<tseng> hi
<bddebian> Hi tseng
<bddebian> tseng: So when the hell am I buying you dinner anyway? :-)
<tseng> i just ate
<tseng> on friday i am leaving
<tseng> unless you want to meet me at the airport
<bddebian> Gah
<bddebian> Thursday night I have to head back to Jersey to pick up my family
<bddebian> Man, it's quiet in here
<Hobbsee> morning all
<Hawkwind> Evenin to ya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi Hawkwind :)
<Hawkwind> How is ya
<Hobbsee> i'm okay, i've just gotten up, pretty much, and thinking about what i'll do today
<bddebian> Bugfixing, what else is there? :-)
<Hawkwind> I've been up for 11 hours and I'm still wondering what I'll do today too :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> bddebian: isnt it a bit hard to bug fix from in a chroot?
<bddebian> Nah
<bddebian> Just guess ;-)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> if we've got a package in debian experimental that we want brought to ubuntu, do we have some sort of special sync, or what?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: You mean a current package, or you want to sync one from Experimental?
<Hobbsee> http://packages.debian.org/experimental/utils/gnash
<Hobbsee> bddebian: the latter - it's being asked about in #ubuntu
<bddebian> Have them request a sync/merge from Experimental
* Hobbsee has no idea if it works or not. it was just a request
<ajmitch> afternoon Hobbsee, bddebian
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch :)
<bddebian> Heya Andrew, what's new?
<ajmitch> nothing
<ajmitch> my life is not exciting enough for new stuff :)
<bddebian> Well join the club :-)
<crimsun> 'lo *
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> 1280x1024 is really nice :)
<ajmitch> hey crimsun
* ajmitch prefers 2560x1024
<crimsun> yeah well, some of our laptops can't output that ;)
<ajmitch> my laptop only has a 1280x800 screen :)
<crimsun> only 1024x768 here :/
* Hobbsee cant even imagine what that looks like.
<crimsun> 915resolution is quite nice, tho'
<ajmitch> yep
<Hobbsee> crimsun: did you steal my brain?
<crimsun> I ... hope not?
<Hobbsee> hmmm...right.  where's it gone then?
* crimsun points to ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!  how dare you!
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<Hobbsee> hi Gloubiboulga
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you assume too much
<Gloubiboulga> morning MOTU world
* Hobbsee has no brain to assume with, as it got stolen.
<ajmitch> well then
<ajmitch> it proves you don't need a brain for IRC
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> didnt we already know that though, with idiots who get bored, and so start spamming to get kicked, instead of just leaving?
<ajmitch> yes
<pschulz01> I'm building a package that just contains files (no building required).. but the $DESTDIR variable isn't being pased to my toplevel make..  amyone got any ideas?
<pschulz01> 'debian' directory has been recently created with 'dh_make'.
<Gloubiboulga> you can patch the Makefile to make it use $(DESTDIR)
<pschulz01> I constructed it mysefl.. only one Make target .. 'install'
<pschulz01> Gloubiboulga: If I put 'echo $(DESTDIR)' - nothing get's echoed.
<Gloubiboulga> ah ok, could you paste your Makefile and your debian/rules on pastebin?
<crimsun> if you're not setting $DESTDIR, then it won't be non-empty...
<pschulz01> Gloubiboulga: and yet debian/rules has the correct line - '$(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/<package>'
<pschulz01> Gloubiboulga: So I don't know whats wrong here.
<bddebian> crimsun: Isn't that a double-negative? ;-P
<crimsun> as Gauvain mentioned, did you patch the Makefile{,s}?
<pschulz01> crimsun: Ahh.. I think I found the problem :-)
<pschulz01> Home spum make file.. onle on target.. it's the first one that gets run.. by just 'make' (compile step).. even before it get;s to the 'install' step.
<pschulz01> only one target.
<pschulz01> So DESTDIR is not set :-)
<pschulz01> Works now :-)
<Gloubiboulga> cool :)
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Sp4rKy> hi MOTUs
<Hobbsee> hey Sp4rKy
<Hobbsee> althouhg i'm not a MOTU
<Sp4rKy> :p
<Sp4rKy> hey Hobbsee
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, when will you apply for MOTUness?
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: never.
<Gloubiboulga> really?
<Hobbsee> no, i've got no idea
<Sp4rKy> :)
* Hobbsee might sometime.
<Sp4rKy> i'll go to work :( , 'later
<Gloubiboulga> see you Sp4rKy
<Sp4rKy> :)
<Gloubiboulga> I'm leaving too to join the members of the Ubuntu sect ;)
<dsas> I can see that building a package doesn't need several things that it's setup.py checks for, but needs them at run-time. Should I stop setup.py checking for them? Or just list them as build-depends?
<crimsun> well if you're using setup.py in debian/rules, then either you'll have to include them in debian/control:Build-Depends, or you'll have to reimplement some of setup.py's functionality (or hack it to remove them) in a separate script, ...
<dsas> crimsun: It's easiest for me to include them in Build-Depends I guess. I just wasn't sure if that was correct enough.
<crimsun> if the packages truly aren't needed to generate the deb{,s}, then they should be debian/control:Depends, and you should edit setup.py or not use it at all
<dsas> crimsun: ok.
* dsas toddles off to learn about patching and packaging
<lucas> hi
<lucas> could somebody install gnuplot on tiber.tauware.de ?
<TheMuso> Morning all.
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso
<sladen> morning TheMuso
<siretart> lucas: done
<lucas> thanks
<Hobbsee> evening siretart
<siretart> huhu Hobbsee
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> schedule up for today yet?
* ajmitch guesses it must be
<nixternal> dholbach: you guys going over the "Drinking from the firehose" spec yet?
<dholbach> nixternal: just starting it
<nixternal> you going to be on ts or gobby at all with it?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: Oak?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: heya, was another nick i used for a while
<ajmitch> right...
<nixternal> lol
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: see k-devel if you really want to know
<lucas> http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/mergescountdown/mergescountdown.png
<lucas> (data is wrong, but you get the idea)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I probably don't...
<Hobbsee> heh, it's really not that bad...
<ajmitch> still strange
* ajmitch saw the fun in -offtopc as well
<ajmitch> hey \sh
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: and i was testign out something where i needed a different hostmask.  and since most nicks of mine are registered, i didnt have much choice
<Hobbsee> hey \sh
* Hobbsee is starting to notice that ajmitch is all seeing and all knowing. scary.
<\sh> re
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I look at the channels I'm in where you're most likely to cause trouble
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you're not in one of them :P
<ajmitch> only one? that's a surprise
* Hobbsee isnt in that many channels
<\sh> were anyone attending the TB meeting?
<ajmitch> there was no TB meeting that I know of
<\sh> tuesday 20th, 2000 UTC :)
<ajmitch> yes, and it didn't go ahead
<\sh> ah ok
<ajmitch> you were there then
<\sh> ajmitch: just before official start...but with a b0rke umts network connection....and I asked mjg59 to discuss my request...and they should give me feedback via irc or mail..
<\sh> in the moment it's really hard for me, to attend meetings in the evening...
<ajmitch> yeah, it would be
<ajmitch> morning jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> good morning
<Toadstool> 'morning
<Hobbsee> morning Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
<raphink> hi Hobbsee, Toadstool, ajmitch, jsgotangco, \h
<raphink> \sh
<raphink> this is hard to type
<ajmitch> hey raphink :)
<Toadstool> hi raphink
<jsgotangco> raphink: hi!
<raphink> :)
<Hobbsee> hi raphink :)
* raphink turns on his chair, wondering what to do
<Hobbsee> raphink: fix the universe
<ajmitch> break edgy?
<Hobbsee> that too
<Hobbsee> break dapper :P
<raphink> break edgy I can do :)
<raphink> let's see what I can do to this 2.6.17 kernel
<raphink> how could I bork it
<Hobbsee> raphink: do the restricted modules?
<raphink> I don't want to be killed by Ben
<Hobbsee> heh
<cymcy> hello #ubuntu-motu
<Hobbsee> hi cymcy
<cymcy> hi does anyone know what is the status of lirc in dapper ?
<raphink> hi cymcy
<Toadstool> hi cymcy
<raphink> cymcy: frozen
<raphink> as everything else in dapper
<cymcy> so how do it working ?
<cymcy> I go under a lot of site, under https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/lirc/+bug/45703, under the #5443, so it looks like it don't work under dapper. I try to compile the lirc-module package.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45703 in lirc "Unable to use modules in dapper" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<cymcy> yes. with make-kpkg there is no /etc/lirc/lirc-modules-source.conf so unable to continue. I try with snapshot of lirc (0.7.3pre1 and 0.8.0) but there is lot of errors (undefined symbols)
<cymcy> I followed this : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LircHowto?action=show&redirect=HowToLirc. I will try other things
<LaserJock> hi MOTUs
<Hobbsee> heya LaserJock
<Gloubiboulga> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee and Gloubiboulga
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock, Gloubiboulga
<TheMuso> Hey LaserJock.
<Gloubiboulga> I've just read the updated easier-MOTUing wiki page, it rocks :)
<LaserJock> yes
* ajmitch should see what's new on there since yesterday
<Gloubiboulga> hey ajmitch, TheMuso
<LaserJock> dholbach wrote quite a bit yesterday
<ajmitch> I guessed he would
<Hobbsee> link, bitte?
<ajmitch> I wonder if I should be a mentor or not
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasierMotuing
<LaserJock> yes
<Toadstool> hi Gloubiboulga and LaserJock
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you should
<Hobbsee> danke
<Gloubiboulga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasierMotuing
<LaserJock> hi Toadstool
<ajmitch> I'm not exactly mentor material
<Gloubiboulga> oops, too late
<Gloubiboulga> hello Toadstool
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I think as many of us as possible should chip in so a few don't get swamped
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I don't want to scare too many away
<Hobbsee> Shy contributors will have the possibility to mail volunteering MOTUs and developers who will help them until they're ready to communicate via mailing lists and irc channels. <-- hah, i like that - "shy contributors" just like myself :P
<LaserJock> bah, send them to me then ;-)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: we haven't scared you off yet, for some reason
<LaserJock> exactly
<raphink> hi Gloubiboulga && LaserJock
<LaserJock> raphink!!!
<ajmitch> you spend enough time here to not be shy :P
<Gloubiboulga> salut raphink :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yeah, there's only specific ways to do that
<LaserJock> I went to paris raphink!
* rob looks
<raphink> great Laser :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: er...that depends on who i'm talking to.
<raphink> how was it?
* Hobbsee still avoids some of the devs like the plague.
* ajmitch throws chocolate at Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> raphink: ok, lots of people, but it was really an amazing place
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, names, please ;)
* Hobbsee catches it, and munches happily
<LaserJock> good girl
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: the big and scary "core dev" people that yell if people get things wrong.
<raphink> wish I could shw you around
<LaserJock> raphink: me too, but I went with a few others so I was ok
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, ok I see :)
<jsgotangco> raphink: are you here?
<raphink> cool
<raphink> jsgotangco: I'm in Nice
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: they aren't as scary in person ;-)
<raphink> :(
<jsgotangco> is that far?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: they're quite interesting in person :)
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: they probably arent big and scary, but they are to me - i was terrified of ajmitch for a while.
<raphink> jsgotangco: about 900km
<Gloubiboulga> Do you guys in Paris go to the "fte de la musique" this evening?
<jsgotangco> doh!
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> Gloubiboulga: good idea
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: yes, Nice is quite a long way from paris :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: me too
<raphink> jsgotangco: like try to imagine the furthest you can go from paris in metropolitan france
<raphink> jsgotangco: and you get there
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> raphink: we're like 40min away from the eiffel tower by train and that's far
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I wanted his reviews though because if it passes the ajmitch test then it is probably good enough for Debian/Ubuntu
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, actually it was the same for me, but seeing them in real life for 3 days now, I can tell you, they are cool and nice guys, really
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: haha.  he must be very scary then :P
<raphink> jsgotangco: I'm 1 hour away from Paris by plane, not that far ;)
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: right, i'll take your word for it
<Hobbsee> hi ogra
<ajmitch> this is why I shouldn't be a mentor
* Hobbsee notes that ogra doesnt seem scary.
<jsgotangco> maybe its a good idea to escape this jail tonight
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: just make sure to scratch him behind the ear and he'll be a happy eft and do your bidding. :-P
<raphink> anyway, anybody who wants to enjoy the coast is welcome here ;)
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hehe right
<ogra> Hobbsee, you never met me in RL :P
<Hobbsee> ogra: true, i've never met *any* of you in RL
<ogra> ;)
<Hobbsee> ogra: but you dont seem too scary over IRC
<LaserJock> as long as ogra has his pants on he's not too scary ;-)
<ogra> HAHA
<jsgotangco> hahaha
* Hobbsee covers her eyes
<ajmitch> LaserJock: TMI
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> apparently it was a very hot drive from Germany, that's all I'm saying
<ogra> *g*
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> don't scare me like that
<jsgotangco> well
<ajmitch> we have ladies present here.. :)
<jsgotangco> that's how the typical european dresses when they're in asia though
* Hobbsee makes a mental note not to go to asia.
<LaserJock> but you aren't all that far away
<LaserJock> and I'm sure it won't scare you too badly
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: as long as ogra doesn't reach anything on the floor with those trousers on
<LaserJock> lol
* LaserJock shudders ;-)
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: actually, the real one that scares me is mdz - i dont think the rest are too bad.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I find him to be one of the friendliest, in person and online
* ogra wonders if his bum is really that ugly ...
<Gloubiboulga> I agree with LaserJock
* Hobbsee got the wrong side of him in a bug report, unfortunately :P
<LaserJock> elmo is the one that I've always had a hard time feeling comfortable with
<LaserJock> he is great
<Hobbsee> havent even been near him
<LaserJock> but extremely busy
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you really see another side of people when you meet them in person
<Hobbsee> yes, but is the other side a good or a bad side?
<LaserJock> except elmo is about exactly what I though he would be
<LaserJock> I still have a very hard time asking him questions
<LaserJock> it's not that he is particularlly unfriendly
<jsgotangco> hmm
<TheMuso> It is certainly one thing to talk to people online, but it is another thing to meet them in person.
<jsgotangco> he's a really nice guy
<LaserJock> but I always feel like I about to say something increadibly dumb
* jsgotangco trust him he's elmo's roommate
* ajmitch has even managed to meet Mithrandir in person
<Hobbsee> yes, but is the other side a good or a bad side?
* Hobbsee thought she sent that.
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: he's been very tired the past few days
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I can imagine, that is my problem with him
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: he is always so busy that I really really hate bothering him
<LaserJock> but I did ask about team speak and he was very nice and helpful
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: dont worry - i'm usually teh one that says the dumb things, and i never seem to get laughed at too badly.
<Hobbsee> although that relates more to anyone, not just elmo
<LaserJock> heh, well I'm really feeling quite stupid at this meeting, but I'll survive
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i'm told, and i would think it applies here too "you'll learn"
<LaserJock> heh, maybe eventually
<LaserJock> I'm just not a hacker
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you think i am?
<LaserJock> more than me
* Hobbsee is always amazed that she doesnt get told to shut up.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: have you ever taken a computer science class?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: first semester of a c++ class, yes
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you're already doing better than me then ;-)
<Hobbsee> but transferring what i've learned there to how it actually works in regards to the real world, etc...that's a challenge that i havent even tried to work out yet.
<LaserJock> heh
* Hobbsee will be dissapointed if she didnt get at least a distinction in that exam.  it was far too easy.
<LaserJock> my problem is that I don't know how anything works in a low-level way
<Hobbsee> define "low-level"?
<LaserJock> like I use the tool, I don't know how the tool does it's job
<LaserJock> Ubuntu "Just Works"
<TheMuso> Nobody is dumb guys. Everybody is smart in their own special way and the area that they are most interested in and follow the most.
<TheMuso> c
<LaserJock> TheMuso: yeah, I'm special all right ;-)
<kelmo> sometimes that is an advantage, to know how it works but not get tangled up in the why
<TheMuso> LaserJock: You should feel special. You were granted sponsorship to attend this summit.
<LaserJock> bah, that's because they didn't really know ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yeah, we're just special at disrupting people
<Hobbsee> :P
<LaserJock> hehe
<Hobbsee> ah okay, yeah
<TheMuso> Nah seriously guys.
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, Hobbsee, seriously
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: hmmm?
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, you're part of the Kubuntu council, right?
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: yes
<Hobbsee> Riddell: and others wanted me there.
<LaserJock> really, I honestly don't fit in in Linux development, I can doc and organize, but ...
<Gloubiboulga> and LaserJock is a MOTU and get sponsored, I think you guys rock, that's it
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: you got sponsored too, so you rock. in fact this whole channel rocks
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: should we just say okay, and pretend that we believe you?  :P
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, I dindn't get sponsored actually, I live next to Paris :)
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, yes please ;)
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: right :P
<Mithrandir> LaserJock: yes, and?  I can program, but I can't document my way out of a brown paper bag.
<Hobbsee> bleck, documentation
<jsgotangco> Gloubiboulga: so where's this fete happening...
<LaserJock> Mithrandir: well, documentation is made difficult when you don't understand the material
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: anyway, you wrote/fixed the packaging guide - that in itself is great.
<LaserJock> bah
<Hobbsee> and a help to others.
<Mithrandir> LaserJock: I can explain it to somebody who can write the docs, but I'm utterly unable to write the docs myself.
* LaserJock getts out his bddebian complex
<Gloubiboulga> jsgotangco, everywhere
* Hobbsee doesnt wnat to think about how many times she had to go searching for that
<TheMuso> ...and I understand a lot about various bits o infrastructure to do with accessibility. I can read a bit of code, but I am certainly not a proficient programmer as yet.
<jsgotangco> Gloubiboulga: whole of paris?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes, you sounded rather like bddebian
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: he is my hero ;-)
* dsas reconsiders using laserjocks packaging guide and using a LaserJock packaged app as an example
<dsas> :p
<Hobbsee> hehe
<TheMuso> But I am not really a doc writer either, but can try. It takes me a while to get things right. :)
<LaserJock> wha??
<Gloubiboulga> jsgotangco, yep, just walk around in Paris and you'll here music and see musicians :)
<TheMuso> I still assume too much about what I am writing about. :)
<jsgotangco> interesting
<LaserJock> TheMuso: yeah, that is easy to do, that's why outside review is important
<Gloubiboulga> s/here/hear
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Damn right.
<TheMuso> I am finding that with one of my specs.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: man, you type fast, all I hear is your keyboard clicking sooo fast
<TheMuso> heh
* Hobbsee takes this opportunity to apologise for all he rrecent typos
<LaserJock> mine is like plunk .... plunk ... plunk
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> I must say that I really do like this keyboard.
<Mithrandir> my x40's keyboard is _so_ much nicer after I got a new one.
<jsgotangco> touchtypists rule
<Hobbsee> hehe yeah
<LaserJock> it takes me long enough to think of what to type that I've never needed to type all that fast
<LaserJock> other than CC and TB meetings ;-)
<Hobbsee> hah - but cant you pretype a lot of that?
<LaserJock> yep ;-)
<LaserJock> thank goodness
<TheMuso> I think working with speech synthesis at a fast rate has caused my brain to speed up its thought process.
<LaserJock> core-dev is harder to do that with though, I'd have to practice beforehand but doubt I'll ever do that so ...
<TheMuso> But could be wrong.
* Hobbsee deliberately slowed *down* her thought processes.  pity.
<Hobbsee> was useful then, not so useful now.  they need to speed up again.
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee from his mothers house.
<LaserJock> don't break it completely
<TheMuso> StevenK: I don't think your mother will lke that.
<Hobbsee> argh!  i'm jumped on
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: drink lots of coffee.  That'll teach your brain about slowing down.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hah.  cant stand the stuff.  and coke doesn tseem that effective - only good for calming me down a bit.
* TheMuso doesn't like coffee either.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: espresso shots are nice, they seem to make decent-ish coffee here.
<Mithrandir> I usually don't drink it either.
<TheMuso> Thats why I would rather get a good night sleep than consume copious amounts of caffeen at the start of each day.
<Hobbsee> hmmm okay...
<LaserJock> I don't do either
* Hobbsee has never been into tea or coffee at all.
* StevenK has cut down on how much caffeine he drinks.
<TheMuso> I don't mind tea during winter.
* Mithrandir bounces around StevenK
<LaserJock> I went to bed at 3:00am last night and never drink coffee
* Hobbsee makes a mental note to remove all coke from StevenK's house.
<StevenK> I usually drink Coke at work.
<LaserJock> Diet Pepsi for me unfortunately
<StevenK> Eww
<Hobbsee> ewwwwww!!!
<Hobbsee> LaserJock you're insane!!!!
<LaserJock> my teeth can't handle the real stuff anymore
<Hobbsee> diet pepsi isnt worth drinking!
* TheMuso prefers ginger beer, or cordial and soda water for fizzy drinks.
<StevenK> If you were a real drinker you wouldn't have teeth.
<Hobbsee> haha
* Hobbsee pictures a toothless StevenK 
<LaserJock> StevenK: right, I've already had to have 2 crowns
<jsgotangco> ive tasted ginger beer i didnt like it
<LaserJock> it's expensive
<LaserJock> the dental work I mean
<StevenK> Any dental work is expensive.
* StevenK avoids the expense by avoiding the dentist.
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, i was supposed to go back there...
* Hobbsee goes back to happily ignoring that idea.
<TheMuso> Dental work is expensive if it is reactive treatment, not preventative.
<TheMuso> Preventative is not soo bad.
<StevenK> Last time I went, I was charged $110 to have the dentist look at my teeth and clean them.
<StevenK> "Cheap" is a relative term.
<LaserJock> I paid $1200 USD for my last visit :(
<TheMuso> Ouch.
<LaserJock> yeah, just because of soda and popcorn, grrr
* TheMuso has drunk more water this week than he has in the last 6 months.
<TheMuso> :)
<TheMuso> Maybe not quite that much.
<TheMuso> But water is good.
<TheMuso> I don't like that gassy water however. Totally ruins the taste of water.
<LaserJock> I can't find much water
<TheMuso> I am pretty sure it is on every table, and has been at meal times as well.
<TheMuso> or do you just prefer not to find it? :)
* StevenK keeps raiding the bottled water at work
<LaserJock> but there isn't very much of it
<Hobbsee> darn.  i left my waterbottle at work on monday night.
* Hobbsee got the chocolate, payslip, shifts, locker key (the one thing i usually forget, and have to go back for - grr), but not the water bottle.
<Hobbsee> oh well
<ajmitch> water bottles are replacable
<Hobbsee> true
* StevenK lost his gym one a few days ago.
* StevenK ponders blocking the machine his mother is accessing the Internet from so his download will go faster.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: hah.  what are you downloading?  and where is this?
<ajmitch> go ahead...
<LaserJock> water is soo expensive here though
<ajmitch> StevenK: on dialup?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: A song from my work machine.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Close. 256/64 DSL
<ajmitch> ouch
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: try hoarding the bottles in this room now
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello imbrandon
<TheMuso> hey imbrandon.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, ping
<LaserJock> well, actually I'm having more problems trying to find clean glasses
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: pong
<TheMuso> LaserJock: heh its getting that way isn't it.
<LaserJock> and the evian tates funny
<TheMuso> They do get replaced every morning however.
<StevenK> Evian tasting funny is a feature.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: drink it from teh jug?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i dident think about libvisual0.4-plugins , i'm building now and adding to my repo
* Hobbsee ducks
* LaserJock files a bug
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: cool.  i got it mostly working, but it looked weird on my machine.
<rob> to actually log into revu, how does one obtain a login/password?
<imbrandon> heheh well i dont use visualisations so i dident notice
<Hobbsee> rob: send your key to the keyring thingo, then they'll give you one
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: really?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i  didnt either, except to check them out
<rob> Hobbsee, I've been added
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: really to what?
<imbrandon> rob, once you upload the first time , you can use the "retreive password" from REVU
<LaserJock> rob: you upload first and then use the email you used in the upload
<Hobbsee> bah, beaten.
<LaserJock> haha
<imbrandon> ;)
* rob looks for retreive password
<Hobbsee> rob: right next to the login box
<rob> clicking on recover when entering nothing tries to download a .py file in konqueror?
<imbrandon> http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=<fill in emial here>
<imbrandon> rob ^^
* Hobbsee notes that hers doesnt work anymore.
<rob> the motu-reviewers list info page is broken too
<rob> well, maybe not too
* ajmitch blames Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hah
* Hobbsee stands contrite and sorry for whatever she's done now
<ajmitch> sure you are..
<imbrandon> ajmitch , mind looking at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2384 so i can get it uploaded to edgy , dosent require x or anything so it should be ok to upload now ( btw crimsun looked at it to already but he still needs to advocate it so i can get my 2 motu reviews )
* ajmitch wonders why he gets asked...
<imbrandon> ajmitch cuz i talk to you once in a bit ;)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: because they want to get told off by you
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ajmitch is a nasty reviewer
<ajmitch> LaserJock is a better reviewer :)
* rob hides
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, he's already reviewd that before just dident advocate it so it can be uploaded ;)
<LaserJock> he gets asked becuase ajmitch is a good reviewer and he makes the mistake of talking in the channel
* ajmitch shouldn't make that mistake any more
<Hobbsee> haha
<imbrandon> hahaha
* Hobbsee makes a mental note to never go for MOTU.
<LaserJock> lol
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you've seen how many lintian warnings there are?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you need the crimsun lurking technique down better
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Aww, why not?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I agree
<LaserJock> Hobbsee really *must* become a MOTU
<rob> ooh someone finally looked at my package today :)
<ajmitch> I agree
<ajmitch> then Hobbsee can do all our reviewing
<ajmitch> & uploads
<imbrandon> ajmitch yea i seen them but crimsun said they would be fine for universe since upstream sucks, guess i could go fix them all ;)
<Gloubiboulga> ajmitch, true
<Hobbsee> StevenK: so i cant get asked to review things, of course.
<Toadstool> re
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: what's the second last lintian error mean?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ahh, the grand tradition of encouraging unsuspecting new people into doing all our work ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: heh, why?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, the NMU one ?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: we need a MOTU calendar girl
* LaserJock runs
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I'd have to look at it again..
<imbrandon> better run FAST
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yes
<Gloubiboulga> do we already have a girl in the MOTU team?
<LaserJock> hehe
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you need to clean up stuff in debian/rules too
<imbrandon> ajmitch she means : apt-mirror source: changelog-should-mention-nmu : idk either
<imbrandon> ajmitch ok
<ajmitch> eg, why do you use dh_installexamples ?
* Hobbsee taps her keyboard, wondering what she should reply...
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: seriously, we can always use more help and you are good at what you do
<imbrandon> ajmitch i just packaged upstream , i can redo it though no biggie
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i think you'd better run *very* fast!
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: the fact that you are a woman *does* help encourage other women into development
<LaserJock> but I'm more interested in your atitude towards teamwork and your helpfullness
<ajmitch> imbrandon: 'just packaging upstream' usually isn't good enough for us :)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: stop digging your hole :P
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: bah, I'm married, I'm good at it
<Hobbsee> actually, perhaps you'd be better to go hide in the doghouse for a week, or something.
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> if you haven't figured out by now that I was very much kidding and playing around then ... ;-)
* Hobbsee isnt going to model anything.  not pretty enough.  :P
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes, i figured :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you can't use that excuse, you've already shown some photos
<LaserJock> I even considered being an ubuntu-women mentor
<LaserJock> but I probably lack the skills for that
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: excuse?  what excuse?  on second thoughts, i'm not going there.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you could mentor anyone, no matter what their gender, i would think
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> my wife is a social scientist very keen on gender issues so I get a lot of this stuff at home already :-)
<Hobbsee> heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ah, so you get lots of practice at digging holes?
<LaserJock> yes, very much so
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> dinner
<ajmitch> goodbye, Hobbsee
* Hobbsee will be back
<LaserJock> ajmitch: sometimes I ask her "what's for dinner?" just to tease her ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: FYI, i'm the kind of girl who will take almost all comments like yours above as a joke, unless they're really offensive.  and i might just comment back
* Hobbsee is not for dinner.  She's not worth eating.
<Hobbsee> too bony :P
<LaserJock> uggh
<LaserJock> can't have that
<Hobbsee> haha
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I figured I could get away with it with you, otherwise I wouldn't have said it ;-)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: but you need some good male jokes (there are lots to chose from) to come back with ;-)
<Mithrandir> LaserJock: she could just kick you in the groin instead. :-P
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> only if she was here, which she isn't so there
<jsgotangco> she must be pissed of you going to paris with la tour eiffel and all...
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> yeah, I thought it was bigger
<LaserJock> I've got some great video/sound of highvoltage saying some things about eiffel
<LaserJock> I'll have to blog it later ;-)
<cymcy> hello #ubuntu-motu
<LaserJock> hm, that was sort of short
<ajmitch> it was rather
<Gloubiboulga> we're lucky his sentence didn't end with '?', thinking about the log parsing we've discussed yesterday :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I don't really think log parsing would be very effective for this channel
<Gloubiboulga> I agree
<ajmitch> far too random
<LaserJock> but I think we can get an idea of FAQs just from our own experiences
<Tonio_> hi
* Hobbsee wonders why her system froze again.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: one day i just might :P
<\sh> siretart: ping
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: be sure to save an mpeg or jpeg for those of us not present.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: haha :P
<Hobbsee> of me being violent, yes
<Mithrandir> or at least a .ogg
<Hobbsee> haha right
<LaserJock_> yes, we need open source ;-)
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: don't encourage her, please
<LaserJock_> hmm, why are there so many of me?
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: you should be at a safe distance.
<ajmitch> that's the problem
* Hobbsee wouldnt hurt anyone like that unless she had a reason too.  which fortunately, most of the time at least, she doesnt.
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: you would _like_ to not be?
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: no, that I'm going over to australia next week
<ajmitch> and so the opportunities for violence increase immensely
<Mithrandir> well, walk nicely there, then.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you'll be fine :)
* Hobbsee doesnt bite much - only when needed
<zul> ajmitch: heh..a dingo ate my baby
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> hmmm..no kudzu package for dapper?
<Kyral> Morning
<Hobbsee> morning Kyral
<Laser_away> hi Kyral
<truz_`24> If one wanted to download the latest kernel from kernel.org, they would need to build a kernel image, restricted modules package, and a linux-headers package right?
<shawarma> truz_`24: Not if you just wanted to download it.. :-)
<truz_`24> :-)
<truz_`24> I guess I should have said download and install.
<shawarma> truz_`24: Do you need any of the things in linux-restricted-modules?
<truz_`24> fglrx
<shawarma> Well.. Ubuntu can run just fine without the packaged kernels.
<truz_`24> Well, i figured if you packaged it, it would be easier to remove
<shawarma> Fetch the kernel, compile it, fetch the fglrx source from ati, reboot, compile fglrx, install it, reboot and you're done.
<shawarma> truz_`24: Oh, yes.
<kelmo> well, kernel-package is a nice tool
<truz_`24> I'm surprised there aren't already bleeding edge packages of the "latest stable kernel"
<zul> in edgy there is, but i wuldnt run edgy yet
<ajmitch> unless you like the taste of blood
<truz_`24> Which leads me to ask, what goes into making the decision of what kernel dapper runs? and when it gets upgraded.
<zul> like ajmitch does
<ajmitch> mmmm
<truz_`24> why is it 2.6.15-25
<Hobbsee> mmm...tasty blood...
* Hobbsee is a vampire :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you are worrying
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee couldnt help herself
<zul> truz_`24: dapper only get security updates and small little fixes
<shawarma> truz_`24: You're talking about the -25 ?
<truz_`24> that and the -15
<truz_`24> .15 i mean
<shawarma> truz_`24: Err.. then I don't understand the question.
* ajmitch_ wonders who cut the string
<ajmitch> hm
<Hobbsee> who cut what string?
<ajmitch> you did it
* ajmitch should have known
* Hobbsee is innocent
* Hobbsee did nothing of the sort
<ajmitch> they all say that
<Hobbsee> hehe...really!
<ajmitch> hello Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch
<Yagisan> ajmitch: found my new uni has a really bad spam filter today
<ajmitch> excellent
<ajmitch> so throw away 99% of mail to that account?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: it scans all incoming mail & attachments for certain regexs, except, they got the regexs wrong
<ajmitch> hah
<Hobbsee> haha great
<ajmitch> I love incompetent IT staff
<Yagisan> ajmitch: mis-identifies the word "rollex" in my .jpg attachments, and rejected my email 4 times
* Hobbsee hates the big and scary IT staff who are also incompetent :P
<Yagisan> when I finally got my email through, it included a rather off-handed comment about the mail admin might want to a) learn regexes, b) enroll in the same course,c) use a real spamfilter, and d) never reject the mail
* nixternal is the big and scary imcompotent IT staff ;)
<Yagisan> and all rejection headers of it previous bounces
<Yagisan> it was funny for 15 sections to see the word "enrollment" also trigger the same regex
<Yagisan> argh! s/sections/seconds
<pygi> Hey folks
<ajmitch> hi pygi
<pygi> Just wanted to inform you that I have registered upstream products (Diva and Bonfire) which we will hopefully sync from Debian as soon as they appear in Unstable
<pygi> which shouldn't be too long
<pygi> s/be/take
<pygi> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> oh dear
<pygi> ajmitch, what I did this time? :P
<ajmitch> diva
<LaserJock> bddebian!
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<pygi> ajmitch, what's wrong with Diva? :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi LaserJock, ajmitch
<ajmitch> pygi: I see it's not in the NEW queue in debian yet - is the packaging available somewhere?
<pygi> ajmitch, in ITP it is, but it currently requires a CVS dependencies
<bddebian> Is there anything wrong with the archives today?
<pygi> we should release Diva 0.0.3 which doesn't need patched GST rather soon
<ajmitch> pygi: an ITP is just a bug, I'm talking about the packaging :)
<ajmitch> pygi: since you will of course have followed the debian CLI policy, right? :)
<pygi> ajmitch, there is a package attached there I think
<pygi> ajmitch, :)
<pygi> the Diva package is great, no worries :)
<bddebian> My 'Edgy' machine is broken :'-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's expected
<ajmitch> deal with it
<bddebian> I can't
<ajmitch> then you'll have to burn the machone
<bddebian> I can't update anything and name resolution isn't working :-(
<ajmitch> fix it
<Hobbsee> haha
<bddebian> I have been trying
* Hobbsee burns bddebian's machine for him
<Sp4rKy> Hi :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Adding a hosts entry for archive.ubuntu.com or using the IP address in sources.list still says it can't connect?? :-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: then you broke it
<Kamping_Kaiser> bddebian, can you ping by ip?
<bddebian> Kamping_Kaiser: Yep
<Kamping_Kaiser> now thats cute.
* Kamping_Kaiser would help, but networking is a /big/ hole in my knowlage :/
<bddebian> We don't enable iptables or anything now do we?
* Kamping_Kaiser is running edgy now
<ajmitch> bddebian: nope
<ajmitch> bddebian: give a better description than "can't connect"
<bddebian> ajmitch: That's what the error message says :-)
<ajmitch> "the error message"
<ajmitch> from what program?
<Kamping_Kaiser> bddebian, have you turned on a proxy of some sort?
<bddebian> ajmitch: When apt-getting
* Kamping_Kaiser did that once
* Sp4rKy start the package of audacious :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: and can any other http-using software access sites?
<bddebian> Hmm, haven't tried wget but it's a server install so I have no gui.  I'll try :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: The default route is missing/screwed.  WHen I try to add it, it says File Exists.  So I delete it and add it again and it still isn't there??
<ajmitch> ok
<bddebian> Any ideas?
<ajmitch> so you've broken something else :)
<ajmitch> like your network driver not loading properly
<bddebian> I can ping IPs though
* ajmitch has little sympathy for those who run edgy >:)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Thanks for the love :-)
<ajmitch> no worries
<Sp4rKy> i've some issue during split packages into 2 debs
<Sp4rKy> the <package-dev> should contains all header files, but doesn't :/
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: So fix it :-)
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, :p i get help because i don't know how !
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: Is this an existing package or a new package you are making?
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, i've audacious-dev.install file, section in debian/control and uncommented dh_install in debian/rules
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, a new :)
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: paste-bin them
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, the rules ?
<bddebian> Rules and .install file
<Sp4rKy> k
<LaserJock> I'm going to fall over dead any second
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, http://pastebin.ca/68413
<bddebian> LaserJock: Why?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: please dont.  the paperwork is inconvenient.
<Hobbsee> night all
<LaserJock> bah, no sleep, weird TZ ans food
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, any idea ?
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: Your (MAKE) install prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/audacious/usr  but then in .install you are looking in /debian/tmp/foo ??
<Sp4rKy> oups
<bmonty> ajmitch: can you let me know when you put your project up on the supermirror please?  I'd like to help test.
<ajmitch> bmonty: sure
* ajmitch will go & sleep now though
<ajmitch> past 4AM :)
<bddebian> Anyone know much about ~/.pbuilderrc
<LaserJock> what about it?
<ajmitch> tha manpage does
<bddebian>  /ignore ajmitch
<bmonty> the manpage is fairly decent :)
<bddebian> Oh forget it
<ajmitch> there's really not a lot we can say that it doesn't cover, though
<LaserJock> bddebian: what do you need dude, I'm not like those other grumps ;-)
<bmonty> LaserJock: he is probably reading the manpage and not looking at his IRC client :)
<bddebian> No, I'm "working" :-(
<LaserJock> what?!?!
<ajmitch> oh well
<ajmitch> I can do what I want now, bddebian has seen fit to ignore me :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, sometimes RL work gets in my way.. :'-(
<bddebian> ajmitch: Turn about is fair play ;-P
* ajmitch really decides to go & sleep now
<bddebian> Gnight honey
<bddebian> LaserJock: I guess I am going to have to set up a few pbuilders :-(
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> you need lots of pbuilders :-)
<bddebian> Well normally I haven't but since edgy killed archive.bddebian.com I guess I had better start :-)
<LaserJock> I usually have sarge, sid, breezy, and dapper pbuilders
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, works, thx :)
<bmonty> LaserJock: how do you keep all your pbuilders seperate?
<LaserJock> I create seperate tarballs
<Sp4rKy> max@Sp4rKy-laptop (18:33) /home/max/audacious/audacious-1.0.0 #lintian ../audacious-dev_1.0.0-1_i386.deb ../audacious_1.0.0-1_i386.deb  |wc -l
<Sp4rKy> 115
<Sp4rKy> ouch
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: Glad to be of SOME use :-)
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, some issue are strange :
<Sp4rKy> E: audacious-dev: non-standard-toplevel-dir debian/
<Sp4rKy> N:
<Sp4rKy> N:   The Filesystem Hierarchy Standard forbids the installation of new
<Sp4rKy> N:   files or directories in the root directory, in section 3.
<bmonty> argh...vmware makes my laptop run like a dog :(
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: In your .install files, do you have  debian/audacity/foo/*  foo/  ?
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: BTW, do a dpkg-deb -c foo.deb to see the files in the .deb file
<bddebian> Gawd I hate my life some days...
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, no i've only debian/audacity/foo/*
<bddebian> Ah.  What is the output of dpkg-deb -c ?
<bddebian> Is it installing in /debian/audacity/usr/foo ?
<Sp4rKy> yes
<Yagisan> bddebian: really
<Yagisan> bddebian: you hate your life ?
<Yagisan> bddebian: I'm sure we can make it worse >:) I'll just dig up some random *sporadic* bug for you
<Sp4rKy> Yagisan, :)
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, so i must add foo/ at the end of all lines in *.install ?
* Yagisan gets grumpy with sporadic bugs at 3am.
<bddebian> Yagisan: Go for it, I probably couldn't fix jack anyway :-(
<Yagisan> bddebian: theres a bug report on jack ?
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: Yeah, so your: 'debian/audacity/usr/bin/*'  should be  'debian/audacity/usr/bin/* /usr/bin'
<bddebian> Gah :-)
<bddebian> @ Yagisan ^
<Sp4rKy> k
* Yagisan drags himself to bed
<bddebian> Gnight Yagisan :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Still around?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> a bit
<bddebian> LaserJock: Just copy /etc/pbuilderrc to ~/.pbuilderrc or is there some "utility" ?
<LaserJock> that works
<LaserJock> I don't use either
<bddebian> ?
<LaserJock> I use a script
<bddebian> Ah
<bddebian> You used the pbuilder-dist.sh ?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I make one for each pbuilder and put it in ~/bin/
<raphink> LaserJock: setting multiple pbuilders?
<LaserJock> yeah
<shawarma> What?!? There's already a script like that?
<raphink> LaserJock: did you read the how to on the wiki?
<LaserJock> of course, but it isn't that great ;-)
<raphink> thank you, I wrote it :p
<shawarma> It's bound to be at least as good as mine..
<LaserJock> I know
<raphink> what's the problem?
<LaserJock> you don't need any of it
<raphink> shawarma: yes and it's very useful
<shawarma> are we talking about /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh ?
<raphink> shawarma: see the PbuilderHowto page
<raphink> yep shawarma
<shawarma> the header of it says someone else wrote it..
<jsgotangco> hmm what's with this lag
<raphink> shawarma: I wrote the wiki _doc_
<raphink> about it
<raphink> ;)
<shawarma> Oh.
<raphink> about multiple pbuilders using this script
<shawarma> Oh.. it looks a bit like mine: http://sirius.linux2go.dk/~sh/pbuilder-scripts/
<raphink> yes quite shawarma
<raphink> mine is a bit more complete
<raphink> I added a step that copies the files to /var/www and builds a local repo
<raphink> then there's an option to have it rsync the local repo to a server
<raphink> :)
<shawarma> I like the magic I did for the resultdir. That's very comfy when you're building many different packages.
<raphink> so typing pbuilder-dapper build *.dsc
<raphink> builds the package, puts it on my local repo, and updates the distant repo on the internet
<raphink> :)
<shawarma> raphink: Oh, I didn't want that. I test stuff before uploading it anywhere. :-)
<raphink> shawarma: by default I don't rsync it
<raphink> it just rebuilds my local repo
<raphink> on http://localhost/ubuntu
<shawarma> raphink: Oh. Also, I use reprepro for building my repo.
<raphink> so I can test the packages using apt-get directly
<shawarma> oh, right.
<raphink> I should learn that
<shawarma> I have a build server, actually. :-)
<raphink> Idon't know existing solutions for this
<raphink> great :)
<raphink> brb
<bddebian> raphink: What config files need to be in /var/cache/pbuilder/edgy/ ?
<raphink> the same as in /var/cache/pbuilder/dapper I guess
<bddebian> I only ever had 1 before
<bddebian> Just /var/cache/pbuilder  and there are no 'config' files
<shawarma> bddebian: No, you only place them there if you need specific ones for different distros..
<shawarma> bddebian: e.g. different sources.list depending on it's updating an edgy or a dapper system.
<phanatic> hey everyone
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Damn I can't create my edgy pbuilder, it has broken packages
<azeem> can't you create a dapper chroot, and then upgrade it to edgy?
<bddebian> Normally yes, but with this script, I'm not sure how I would do that
<crimsun> bddebian: which script?
<bddebian> crimsun: Hi.  This one:  /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh  that I copied to /usr/local/bin/pbuild-edgy
<crimsun> you'll need to use --othermirror deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy universe main restricted multiverse
<crimsun> (with either create or --override-config)
<bddebian> crimsun: Ah, is that what I need .pbuilderrc for ? :-)
<crimsun> well, that's the reason /I/ still use conffiles (besides being a conffile whore)
<bddebian> crimsun: :-)
<bddebian> crimsun: I still get unmet deps for build-essential and perl5 :-(
<crimsun> I haven't been creating an edgy chroot from scratch; I've been dist-upgrading dapper ones.
<crimsun> argh
<crimsun> -!- Cannot join to channel #launchpad (You have joined to too many channels)
<zul> crimsun: get around much?
<crimsun> heh
<bddebian> heh
* bddebian should just give up :'-(
<crimsun> they ain't gonna let you do that in main
<bddebian> They don't want me so no worries
<crimsun> bah
<bddebian> crimsun: And now I know why they don't want me :-0
<zul> how come?
<bddebian> crimsun: So using this shell thing how would I do dapper first then upgrade to edgy, any idea?
<crimsun> bddebian: create a dapper pbuilder, then use --override-config --othermirror deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy universe main restricted multiverse
<crimsun> with update
<bddebian> I know that but this script sets the distribution automagically
<crimsun> doesn't matter, othermirror overrides it
<shenki> hi all. a question; when packaging a gnome panel applet, how would you go about working out the deps from a chroot? know of any packages that would be a good example of this?
<crimsun> shenki: apt-cache showsrc gnome-applets |grep ^Build-Depends |uniq
<imbrandon> gah you know there is like zero documenttation on the web about using distcc transparently with debuild
<shenki> crimsun: um... what's that showing me? wouldn't that be a good list for if i was packaging gnome-panel?
<shenki> (sorry, firstly; thanks for the response)
<_ion> imbrandon: add to ~/.devscripts: DEBUILD_PRESERVE_ENVVARS="PATH,CCACHE_DIR"
<_ion> imbrandon: That's pretty much it.
<imbrandon> nice _ion thanks i've been searching for hours
<imbrandon> on google
<_ion> Oh, i misread. Well, it's probably pretty much similar with distcc.
<imbrandon> ahh ccache
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i just / did ln -s /usr/bin/ccache /usr/bin/gcc etc for that ;)
<crimsun> shenki: you asked for an example [as a starting point, I presume] , no?
<_ion> imbrandon: Eww. :-)
<imbrandon> _ion, as long as its in the path before the real gcc its ok ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> but yea i can use the preserv envi vars with like cc=distcc and makeflags"-j12" etc to make distcc work
<imbrandon> i think
<imbrandon> dunno will have to mess with it i guess ;)
<shenki> hmm, had a power-out, I believe someone said something to me just as I went offline
<imbrandon> [13:42]  <crimsun> shenki: you asked for an example [as a starting point, I presume] , no?
<imbrandon> [13:42]  <_ion> imbrandon: Eww. :-)
<imbrandon> [13:42]  <-- shenki has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
<shenki> thanks imbrandon
<bddebian> crimsun: In case I haven't told you lately, I love you man.. ;-)
* imbrandon agress with bddebian there ;)
<shenki> crimsun: yeah, I figured having a package to learn off would be handy... you're suggesting use gnome-panel itself?
* shenki thinks hmm, lots of man-love in -motu thisevening
<crimsun> shenki: err, the source for gnome-applets last I checked isn't gnome-panel...
<crimsun> shenki: perhaps I'm giving you an overkill suggestion.
<shenki> oh...opps... what did I type in before...
<crimsun> shenki: are you looking for b-d for an actual panel applet or just for the notification area?
<shenki> crimsun: oh, yeah, i see were you were pointing me... i think it's a bit of overkill
<shenki> um...
<shenki> an actual applet
<shenki> source of program i'm trying to package - http://www.users.on.net/%7Espohlenz/internode/internode-applet-1.5.tar.gz
<crimsun> ok, then you'll want to start with libpanel-applet2-dev
<crimsun> take a look at network-manager-gnome's b-ds
<shenki> it's a pygtk applet
<shenki> okay, thanks
<bddebian> crimsun: OK, so even with:  sudo pbuild-edgy update --distribution edgy --othermirror deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy universe main restricted multiverse --override-config
<bddebian> it keeps using dapper in the apt lines??
<crimsun> bddebian: it's not using your --othermirror parameters at all?
<crimsun> (you shouldn't have to pass --distribution edgy at all)
<crimsun> (that's culled from the script)
<bddebian> I know, I was just trying anything/everything :-)
<trees123> hello
<bddebian> Hello trees123
<trees123> Hello <bddebian
<bddebian> OK I am learning to hate pbuilder :-)
<crimsun> learn the dark side of sbuild ;)
<trees123> :)
<bddebian> Apparently I am unable to 'learn' anything :-(
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<imbrandon> ouch not good
<imbrandon> anyone else getting this on an apt-get update ?
<imbrandon> Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper-security/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  403 Forbidden [IP: 146.137.96.7 80] 
<imbrandon> or is it just me
<crimsun> s/us.//
<imbrandon> much better , dunno why i dident just do that myself
<imbrandon> lol
* imbrandon kicks distcc
<imbrandon> bah i dont think this is ever gonna work
<rob> when a new upstream source is released, does the ubuntu version number "reset", eg I package version 0.5 then upstream releases 0.5.1, when I package 0.5.1 does the version still equal 0ubuntu1?
<crimsun> rob: depends whether 0.5.1 is in Debian
<crimsun> (it always depends what's in Debian)
<rob> nope
<rob> (its not)
<crimsun> then yes, the package version becomes -0ubuntu1 [again] 
<rob> ok, thanks crimsun :)
<crimsun> np
<rob> is there a way to pass options to the configure script when using cdbs?
<imbrandon>  2.6.0-1 - means that this is the 1st debian package of version 2.6.0. No ubuntu changes were included.
<imbrandon> 2.6.0-1ubuntu1 - means that this is the 1st ubuntu package based on the debian package version 2.6.0-1
<imbrandon> 2.6.0-0ubuntu1 - means that there was not a debian package yet and this is the 1st ubuntu version of package 2.6.0
<_ion> rob: DEB_CONFIGURE_USER_FLAGS
<rob> _ion, thanks :)
* rob tries that
<imbrandon> crimsun, will apt see -0imbrandon0.1 as smaller than -0ubuntu0.1 AND -0ubuntu0.1 ( yes have a specific reason why )
<crimsun> yes
<imbrandon> err AND -0ubuntu1
<crimsun> i < u
<crimsun> thus 0i < 0u
<crimsun> imbrandon: use dpkg --compare-versions
<imbrandon> ok good i got to thinking about it , if/when they hit kubuntu.org they will be -0ubuntu0.1  and propper -0ubuntu1 , so i can safely call them -0imbrandon0.1 -0imbrandon0.2 etc correct , kk will do dident know about that
<jrattner1> QUESTION: Any chance of seeing GNUsTicker added to the repositories?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-22
<Toadstool> hub: around?
<hub> here
<Toadstool> hub: hi, I and Gloubiboulga are helping Maxence (Sp4rKy) for planfacile, he's just uploaded a new version without the copy file
<hub> Toadstool: why?
<hub> Toadstool: I saw
<hub> Toadstool: was quick
<Toadstool> ok :)
<Toadstool> yes, working on #ubuntu-fr-testing
<hub> get the "motu-reviewer" spam
<hub> s/get/getting/
<hub> Toadstool: 'zetes au meeting Ubuntu?
<Toadstool> Gauvain oui
<Toadstool> moi non, je peux pas, je suis en plein exams :(
<Sp4rKy> about planfacile, must i add the dl url to the debian/control in the description area
<Sp4rKy> or just in the copyright
<hub> Sp4rKy: c'est pratique
<Sp4rKy> de ?
<hub> Sp4rKy: celle de la "homepage" pas de download
<Toadstool> d'avoir l'url dans la description
<hub> vala
<Sp4rKy> k
<Sp4rKy> a fera un dput en + :)
<Toadstool> t'es plus  a prs ;)
<Sp4rKy> :p
<hub> ouais
<Sp4rKy> depuis quand on parle franais ici
<Sp4rKy> je sais quemon anglais est nul mais quand meme
<hub> Sp4rKy: depuis que ya que ca
<Sp4rKy> :p
<hub> tout le monde est en train de pioncer
* hub devrait rentrer, tiens
<hub> ou ils sont tous en train de boire
<Toadstool> tiens, dormir... c'est une bonne ide a
<Sp4rKy> mouiah
<hub> pas encore pour moi
<hub> c'est un poil tot
<Toadstool> mme pas une sieste ? ;)
<Sp4rKy> et hop un dput :)
<hub> Toadstool: malalatete
<hub> je prefere rentrer d'abord
<Sp4rKy> :)
<Toadstool> bon allez 'ne nuit/'night/'Nacht/Noche toussa
<Sp4rKy> bn ToadZzZztool
<Sp4rKy> hub , tu es un MOTU ?
<hub> Sp4rKy: ouais
<Sp4rKy> :)
<hub> Sp4rKy: tu veux que je review le package completement?
<Sp4rKy> cool tu va pouvoir regarder mon paquet :p :)
<hub> ouais
<hub> je devrait
<Sp4rKy> si t'as le temps
<hub> a partir de demain j'aurais un poil plus de temps
<hub> ma copine sera loin
<Sp4rKy> arf
<hub> donc j'aurais que le chien a m'occuper :-)
<Sp4rKy> :D
<Sp4rKy> moi je travaille la journe donc la quele soir
<Sp4rKy> bon dernier pbuild de audacious et dodo aprs :p
<hub> moi aussi je travaille le jour
<Sp4rKy> :p
* Erlang was like "uh it's #ubuntu-motu but it's #ubuntu-qc"
<hub> Erlang: #ubuntu-fr
<hub> seulement des maudzi francais
<Erlang> #ubuntu-qc, seulement des gentils qubecois.
<Erlang> a parle pas beaucoup remarque
<hub> vouais
<Sp4rKy> bon allez bonne nuit
<hub> Arrogance: you in Ottawa?
<hub> c-ya all
<Erlang> C, ya
<Arrogance> hub, Toronto
<zul> hey
<ajmitch> hi
<zul> how is it going?
<ajmitch> ok
* Kyral angers
* zul steps aside
<Kyral> oy Shower, then to mail the KDE-Bindings list for help
<Yagisan> hey guys. Is C++ difficult to learn if you have no experience in it or C ?
* Yagisan has to pick either C++ or Java for uni
<dsas> Yagisan: It depends on what other programming language(s) you know
<dsas> and how well you know them.
<Yagisan> Assembler (x86), Shell script
<Yagisan> I'm thinking the C++ is more useful for me WRT Ubuntu MOTU related stuff
<dsas> Yagisan: If you're confident that you can pick it up (it is harder than java) you may want to go for it.
<dsas> Yagisan: Yeah that's true.
<ajmitch> go for c++
<ajmitch> it has some weird, confusing bits
<ajmitch> but it can be worth it
<dsas> Yagisan: If you've got time before you have to make your decision, try to do some basic stuff in either and get a feel for what you like. I'm sure there's tutorials on the net.
<Yagisan> dsas: I have 4 hours
<ajmitch> Yagisan: flip a coin :)
<dsas> :D
<Mithrandir> four hours is plenty of time to play with both. :-)
* ajmitch decides to skip python & rewrite the project in java
* Mithrandir goes downstairs to go swimming.
* Yagisan flips coin
<theCore> Mithrandir: youin a h
<Yagisan> C++
<ajmitch> Yagisan: good
<theCore> Mithrandir: you're in a hotel?
<crimsun> theCore: the Paris dev conf
<theCore> you're a bunch of lucky guys
<crimsun> those guys are, yep.
<Yagisan> now this will be interesting. At least I should find a good buck, and gcc is on everything I have
<Yagisan> s/buck/book
<theCore> Yagisan: good choice, just be careful to not shoot yourself in the foot
<ajmitch> or let it rot your mind out
<crimsun> Yagisan: I highly recommend Thinking in C++, 2nd Ed.  http://www.janiry.com/bruce-eckel/
<Yagisan> theCore: I'm good at shooting myself in the foot. I think I perfected that
<Yagisan> crimsun: thanks. /me makes note
* theCore shouldn't ignore low battery notices
<theCore> Yagisan: Java has a stronger and cleaner design, but it's somehow very verbose
<theCore> Yagisan: on the other side, C++ has a thing call templates that let define new syntax, which is very powerful feature but also very hard to use
<theCore> is there any plans to get Seamonkey in the repos?
<theCore> or Flock, and all those mozilla "branches"...
<Yagisan> theCore: It looks like I can get a 2 for 1 deal with C++. in theory anyway, I could also pick up C
<Lathiat> well not exactly
<Lathiat> yes and no
<Lathiat> theres alot to doign things in C++ that doesnt work in C
<theCore> Yagisan: yeah, pick all three
<Hobbsee> hi all
<Yagisan> I wish I could, but I get 1 choice. Being the kind of guy that would like to have enough rope to hang himself with, C++ seems more attractive
<theCore> Yagisan: try a dynamic language too
<Yagisan> even if it means, installing mingw32-* and getting it going
<Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan :)
<Yagisan> mmm 50% exemption nice :)
<Yagisan> right, that's half a uni degree in 7 days. If only the rest could go as fast
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: what degree?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: causing trouble in -devel again, I see
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: this one http://handbook.cqu.edu.au/Handbook/programs_3.jsp?s=3&code=CQ18
* Hobbsee is hiding in the corner, wearing the dunce cap, yes, ajmitch 
<ajmitch> shocking
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: cool
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: that's exactly what I thought too :)
<dsas> If i'm using dh_clean do I need to make my own clean target in debian/rules?
<Grebo5> Hello, any higherups here?
<Hobbsee> hi Grebo5
<Hobbsee> Grebo5: define "higher ups" - probalby in #ubuntu-devel
<Grebo5> The download page for Ubuntu does not mention source code. The source code is not, unless I can be corrected as I just checked, included with the binary releases of Ubuntu. This is a GPL violation - and it pisses me off because I spent a good deal of time trying to find the source.
<Grebo5> thanks :)
<dsas> Grebo5: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+allpackages
<dsas> Grebo5: It doesn't have to be included. Just available.
<Grebo5> Can I put the binaries on my Internet server and put the source on a different Internet site?
<Mithrandir> Grebo5: no
<Grebo5> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCSourceAndBinaryOnDifferentSites
<Grebo5> the answer is as Mithrandir said; NO
<Grebo5> the binaries are NOT linked at the download site of Ubuntu
<Grebo5> i mean source
<Mithrandir> Grebo5: so?  They're next to the ISO images and they're next to the binaries in the pool
<Mithrandir> it doesn't say that any download link has to be accompanied by a download source link.
<Grebo5> The GPL says you must offer access to copy the source code "from the same place"; that is, next to the binaries.
<Grebo5> next to the binaries
<Grebo5> NEXT
<Mithrandir> Grebo5: calm down.
<Grebo5> I wouldn't make so much of a deal of it other than the fact I've been runing aroundl ooking
<Mithrandir> Grebo5: you've not been looking very hard, then.  Look at http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/
<Grebo5> I evetually found that site before you've helped me, but it took quite a bit of looking
<raphink> Grebo5: Ubuntu is among the open-source projects that really make it a strong point to respect the GPL
<Grebo5> i would have thought so, that's why i'm a little but unimpressed/surprised at this violation
<Mithrandir> it's not a violation.
<raphink> Grebo5: had you looked at some doc, you'd also have found that you can use deb-src entries in your sources.list and use apt-get source to get them
<raphink> Grebo5: there is no violation
<Mithrandir> Grebo5: all those sites are controlled by the same entity.
<raphink> Grebo5: we provide the sources for all the open-source soft we distribute
<Grebo5> it is a violation, the source code either MUST be included with the binary or an offer of downloading NEXT to the binary, or an offer made to give the soruce code for 3 years at cost
<Grebo5> there is no 'other'
<raphink> Grebo5: are you a lawyer?
<raphink> Grebo5: this organization scheme with packages comes from Debian
<Grebo5> no, but i can read and i suggest you read the GPL and also this: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCSourceAndBinaryOnDifferentSites
<Grebo5> Can I put the binaries on my Internet server and put the source on a different Internet site?
<Grebo5>     The GPL says you must offer access to copy the source code "from the same place"; that is, next to the binaries.
<raphink> now as far as I know Debian is maybe one of the very few projects that really make it a central point to respect the GPL to the very detail of it
<raphink> Grebo5: all ubuntu servers have both the binaries and sources
<raphink> in the same directory
<raphink> Grebo5: use your eyes a bit
<Grebo5> http://www.ubuntu.com/download
<Grebo5> you show me the source here
<Grebo5> you are offering downloads without the source
<Grebo5> without even a LINK to the source
* raphink never thought it could be possible to be that stubborn
<raphink> this page in particular is aimed to simple users
<Grebo5> If you say so, what I'd like is the best place to email ubuntu to deal with this violation since the letter is already addressed to the FSF
<raphink> they don't need to be confused with links to thousands of packages
<raphink> if you know how to use google
<raphink> you can find the source packages of ubuntu
<raphink> they are on the same website
<shawarma> Grebo5: The only thing you're required to do is offer to send the code via regular mail.
<raphink> only with a different url
<shawarma> Grebo5: Ubuntu goes further than that and allows you to download it. Very easily, i might add.
<raphink> Grebo5: are you from the FSF yourself?
<shawarma> Grebo5: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DistributeWithSourceOnInternet
<raphink> Grebo5: what is your main activity in open-source, might I ask?
<shawarma> Grebo5: But you just go ahead and write to FSF. Tell them i said hi.
<raphink> hehe :)
<raphink> I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear from you :)
<Grebo5> shawarma: you are required to either: 1) offer the code with the binary together (e.g. zipped), 2) offer the ability to download the source code, 3) offer to give out the source code when asked for a period of 3 years at cost. If that download page is not doing any one of these 3 things then it is a violation, peroid.
<Grebo5> Just put up the source code, is that so hard? I don't think so.
<Mithrandir> Grebo5: the source code is there.
<dsas> Grebo5: A) It's up. B) It's irrelevant - "FTP access to the source is not sufficient to satisfy section 3 of the GPL."
<shawarma> Grebo5: You are REQUIRED to offer it via snail mail. That's it.
<shawarma> Grebo5: The source code is available as it is. On the same servers.
<shawarma> Grebo5: To anyone who cares to download it.
<Grebo5> shawrma, then show me where they offer it via mail there? there is no notice, there is no code but there are downloads
<shawarma> Grebo5: Yes, there is. 2 sec.
<raphink> Grebo5: I'm sure youdon't need 3 years to find the sources on the net. Otherwise I'm very worried for you
<Grebo5> raphink perhaps not but it should be there - why should people waste their time trying to find it when it is required to be there?
<raphink> dholbach: hi, welcome to trollland
<raphink> Grebo5: do you develop?
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey guys
<shawarma> grebo5: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/faq
<Grebo5> does it matter if i develop or not, is it not enough that I want the code?
<shawarma> Grebo5: Search for "Can you send me source CDs".
<Grebo5> as is my right?
<raphink> Grebo5: do you see that if you had come here gently and had asked nicely how to get the source it would have been answered to you in about ... say ... 1 minute maximum?
<LaserJock_> shawarma: up for some mao? ;-)
<shawarma> Grebo5: What is it exactly that you feel is stopping you fro getting the source?
<shawarma> LaserJock_: Always. :-)
<shawarma> LaserJock_: Taking the name of our leader in vain. Tsk, tsk...
<raphink> Grebo5: do you see that you're making everyone lose their time, and that you haven't even tried to understand how to get the source directly and efficiently?
<Grebo5> raphink, i dont care about 'nice' i care about my rights and freedom to get the source. jumping though hopes is not apart of the GPL
<LaserJock_> shawarma: heh, I think I can do better the next time
<Mithrandir> Grebo5: source images are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/6.06/release/source/
<shawarma> raphink: In my world, having to get source code via snailmail is "jumping through hoops". Typing "apt-get source linux-image-2.6.15-23-686" isn't.
<shawarma> raphink: Sorry, that was for grebo5.
<shawarma> Grebo5: What I just wrote to raphink was for you.
<raphink> shawarma: hehe ;)
<Grebo5> thanks Mithrandir, but I found what seems to be the source at archive.ubuntu...etc. But is it the source to what I downloaded? Where's the link at the main download page?
<Grebo5> I think it should be up, and I'll be contacting people who will be able to *put* it up.
<raphink> Grebo5: if you're bothered it's not the right source, then get the source and build it
<raphink> Grebo5: all right, write to the FSF and say hi from the ubuntu devs
<imbrandon_> gpl says get it the same way you got the binary , get it that way and ;e me get bacl to work , bah
<Mithrandir> Grebo5: there's no requirement to have a source download link next to any binary download link.
<dholbach> Grebo5: it's easily discoverable for people who want it
<azeem> raphink: I don't think that is helpful
<Grebo5> raphink, i am bothered that the GPL is in violation and my freedom to easily get the source is hampered, by what ever degree, by this apparent violation.
<azeem> Grebo5: are you the copyright holder of any GPL software in Ubuntu?
<Mithrandir> azeem: that's irrelevant.
<Grebo5> thanks for your time, i have not been pursuaded that not having a link to the source isn't a violation (it is according to the FSF) and i hope that who ever can bring this to the attention of the website developers would do that
<Grebo5> i'll be emailing them, but since there is no abuse@ubuntu.com etc., only support bullshit, we'll see if my letter gets though ;)
<Mithrandir> Grebo5: cdimage.ubuntu.com and releases.ubuntu.com are next to each other, so I'm quite sure we're fine wrt to the "offer source and binaries from the same site" clause.
<Grebo5> <Mithrandir> Grebo5: there's no requirement to have a source download link next to any binary download link. || http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCSourceAndBinaryOnDifferentSites
<Mithrandir> (and more importantly, they're both controlled by the same entity)
<Mithrandir> Grebo5: that talks about sites you don't control.
<Grebo5> read that site, read the GPL - i think you are wrong but i'll listen as to why the FSF is wrong
<Grebo5> ;)
<h4xter> will there be a dapper "respin"?
<robitaille> Grebo5: https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+filebug
<dholbach> how hard will it be to get back to something productive?
<raphink> robitaille: good point :)
<h4xter> Grebo5: who said gpl was wrong?
<azeem> dholbach: just make a decision that this discussion is off-topic :)
<raphink> dholbach: good point too :)
<dholbach> this channel is about maintenance of universe and multiverse packages and getting involved in package maintenance
<highvoltage> morning jammcq_laptop
<jammcq_laptop> highvoltage: howdie
<dsas> If i'm using dh_clean do I need to make my own clean target in debian/rules? Is the answer "it depends"?
<dholbach> I'd like all the MOTU folks to read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasierMotuing - I'd really like to hear what you think about it and if you think it will make things better
<LaserJock> it rocks! ;-)
<Gloubiboulga> indeed :)
<raphink> dholbach: I'm definitely for MOTU school sessions
<raphink> with, say, weekly introduction lectures
<Hobbsee> dholbach: it looks good to me :)
<raphink> and I'm also for allowing good wanabees to commens on REVU
<h4xter> will there be a dapper "respin"?
* Hobbsee just hopes that the MOTU sessions are at vaguely sane au timezones.
<Mithrandir> h4xter: what do you mean by respin?
<raphink> since it makse them practice reviewing and thus improve their packaging skills
<h4xter> Mithrandir: a remake, just like fedora's "respins"
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I think the idea is to rotate so everybody gets a chance
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yeah i know :P
<Mithrandir> h4xter: I don't know about fedora, so without you telling me what you mean by remake, I can't answer your question.
* Hobbsee tends to not like sessions at 4am or something - but i know it's impossible to please everyone
<LaserJock> why ever not? by the time I get back to the US I might be ready for 4am meetings for a few days ;-)
<h4xter> Mithrandir: a dapper with some bugs fixed, which also includes the most recent updates (security but not only)
<dholbach> we'll keep the logs and wiki-fy them (for people who are anot around) - i think we'll rotate in time, so that should be fine
<Mithrandir> h4xter: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperPointReleaseProcess
<h4xter> Mithrandir: so that people won't first download dapper and then the updates
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: haha
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yeah, sounds sensibile
<Hobbsee> -i
<h4xter> Mithrandir: cool! is it a new initiative?
<Mithrandir> h4xter: yes
<h4xter> Mithrandir: very very nice thank you
<LaserJock> dholbach: ohh, I like the idea of having reference packages
<dsas> Speaking as an utter noob, reference packages sound like a great idea. Particularly for the non autotools cases which the documentation doesn't cover.
<shawarma> raphink: did you not actually get access to comment before you were a MOTU? Or am I confusing you with someone else?
<LaserJock> he did, if I remember right
<shawarma> LaserJock: Are you at a BOF?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I'm trying to catch up after the mao game ;-)
<shawarma> My schedule is kind of empty this morning, so I'm up for a game: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/schedule/2006-06-22/shawarma.html
<LaserJock> hmm, and anreas is over there too
<LaserJock> andreas
<shawarma> Oui.
<shawarma> We need one of the regulars, though.
<shawarma> 2 sec..
<LaserJock> hmm, let me check *my* schedule
<shawarma> Hmm... both Ian and Daniel look appear to be busy.
<shawarma> I COULD also just try to get some work done. I found a Chairman game playing thing on the web somewhere. :-)
<LaserJock> heh
<shawarma> http://kevan.org/games/maobot.html
<raphink> shawarma: yes I did
<raphink> shawarma: and that was a great packaging education :)
<shawarma> raphink: I'd imagine.
<raphink> shawarma: as it is now, I (and others, too) often sponsor comments for wanabees, by email
<shawarma> raphink: I suppose that works, but keeping it on revu would be better. That way everyone can learn from everyone's mistakes.
<Mithrandir> Grebo5: you'll be happy to know that http://releases.ubuntu.com/6.06/ now includes a link to the source images too.
<raphink> shawarma: I meant on revu
<shawarma> raphink: Huh? You wrote "by email"?
<raphink> shawarma: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2444
<raphink> someone (in this case phanatic) writes a comment and send it by email to a reviewer, who sponsors it on REVU
<shawarma> raphink: Oh! Now I get it.
<raphink> ;)
<Toadstool> 'morning
<antinobody> hey there
<antinobody> I could be asking the wrong folks, but does anyone here have any idea why, when the ati drivers don't appear to work for any of the newer ati cards, and the radeon drivers often do, the ati driver is still the default?
<antinobody> well, the auto-detected one anyway
<Kagou> hi
<shawarma> I thought the radeon driver and ati driver were one and the same now a days?
<antinobody> hello again Kagou
<antinobody> well, not in functionality, I can vouch for that much
<antinobody> my plan is to sift through the code for both, figure out the difference, and see if that explains why one works and the other doesn't
<shawarma> I mean like the ati driver being kind of a "superdriver" containing the different subdrivers of ati like radeon..
<antinobody> then, once I lose my mind, to attempt to take over the world
<antinobody> hmm, that makes sense, but in the case of all the radeons since the 9600 (at least that seems like the cutoff)
<antinobody> that ati drivers fail
<antinobody> the radeon work, at least partially
<antinobody> understand, I'm new to all of this
<Gloubiboulga> Could we schedule a REVU day?
<Gloubiboulga> I really mean *one*, to go through the amount of packages waiting
<Gloubiboulga> I'll mail the list
<dholbach> thanks Gloubiboulga
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: we can do anything, we just need to get people to show up :-)
<Toadstool> hi dholbach, LaserJock
<antinobody> What is a REVU day?
<zakame> hi all;
<Hobbsee> hi zakame
<antinobody> Hello zakame
<Gloubiboulga> hi zakame
<Toadstool> hi zakame
<antinobody> No, seriously, ignorant though it may prove me, what is a REVU day?
<shawarma> antinobody: A day where we focus on REVU (http://revu.tauware.de). Like reviewing packages and so on.
<antinobody> Oh
<antinobody> thank you
<shawarma> np
<zakame> hi Hobbsee antinobody Gloubiboulga Toadstool
<zakame> my monitor just died of natural causes :/
<zakame> so here I am in the cafe now, lugging my CPU aroubnd :P
<antinobody> My laptop died, the official report claims a suicide, but I suspect foul play on the part of Windows
<antinobody> That is sad, however
<LaserJock> dholbach: is easy motuing in review?
<dholbach> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> god
<LaserJock> good, I meant
<LaserJock> lol
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easier-motuing
<siretart> anyone still not in the revu keyring, but wants to be added?
<siretart> I need a testperson :)
<antinobody> umm, I'm not in the keyring, but I don't know whether I can be added
<antinobody> what is the keyring?
<imbrandon> if you have a gpgkey you can be added, its for uploading packages to be revu'd
<imbrandon> brb
<siretart> antinobody: do you package things and want them to be added to http://revu.tauware.de?
<Hobbsee> siretart: well, if i use a newer email address to upload, but have my old address to sign into revu with, it means i cant comment on my own uploads.  how do i fix that?
<antinobody> ha, no, and I don't have a signed key anyway
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: I'll approve your post to ubuntu-motu@ or want to resend?
<raphink> antinobody: you don't need it signed anyway
<Hobbsee> siretart: i dont know if that means you should drop the old email off the keyring, and add the new email to the keyring - even though they use the same key.
<raphink> yet
<Hobbsee> raphink: yet?
<Hobbsee> you mean we'll have to start having signed keys soon?
<raphink> Hobbsee: well it's good to have it signed to be a dev
<siretart> Hobbsee: thats a bit tricky. because we use a separate database for authentication
<raphink> but not to upload to revu
<Hobbsee> raphink: yeah yeah :P  in a week or so, mine will be signed.
<raphink> Hobbsee: by whom?
<siretart> Hobbsee: basically your email is your login. and currently, logins are created on initial upload
<Hobbsee> siretart: right...
<siretart> Hobbsee: does this answer your question?
<Hobbsee> siretart: yes, but i cant comment on my hobbsee@ubuntu.com email uploads with my hobbsee@gmail.com logins
<Hobbsee> siretart: no, not really
<Hobbsee> raphink: ajmitch, and maybe stevenk - how many people does it need to be signed by again?
<Hobbsee> er, - email from my statement
<raphink> doesn't matter Hobbsee
<siretart> Hobbsee: You have uploaded a package, and used what email?
<raphink> depends on who signs it
<siretart> in debian/changelog?
<Hobbsee> siretart: i upload packages using hobbsee@ubuntu.com
<raphink> if you get it signed by all your neighbours, we don't mind
<Hobbsee> raphink: well, definetly ajmitch, for one
<raphink> but if you get it signed by one ubuntu or debian dev
<raphink> then it's enough :)
<Hobbsee> oh good
<raphink> Hobbsee: ajmitch is definitely enough
<Hobbsee> hehe
<siretart> Hobbsee: then this is your login id
<raphink> imo :)
<siretart> Hobbsee: if you want to use your gmail, you'd have to upload a package with your gmail.com email in debian/changelog
<Hobbsee> siretart: but it doesnt work.  even with the recover password
* Hobbsee wants to use the @ubuntu.com
<siretart> ah
<siretart> ok, then this is a strange bug
<siretart> this will go away as soon as we authenticate against lp
<imbrandon> moins Hobbsee dholbach siretart raphink
<raphink> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> yea i need to lookup someone close to me to sign my key
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> havent got arround to it
<Hobbsee> siretart: argh!  someone fixed it!  it didnt work a few days ago!
<raphink> where are you imbrandon?
<imbrandon> kansas city USA
<antinobody> I live in the same country...
<antinobody> only like, 1500 miles west
<Hobbsee> siretart: i tried it with that username and password, and it refused to work a few days ago.  and now it does.  how annoying.
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> antinobody: where?
<imbrandon> antinobody, i used to like about 1500 miles west of here in reno
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> wahoo!
<imbrandon> LaserJock, is in reno
<imbrandon> lol
<antinobody> Laserjock Oregon
<LaserJock> to bad I only found out about the Reno LUG the day before I left for Paris ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hey next time i'm visiting reno ( in about 30  days ) you should sign my pgp key ;)
<LaserJock> yes, I need to get some people to sign my key here
<LaserJock> antinobody: cool
<imbrandon> uht oh, left coast people ;)
<imbrandon> j/k
<antinobody> I like my coast dammit
<LaserJock> hehe
<imbrandon> its a bad midwest political joke ;)
<imbrandon> left coast == political left ;)
<antinobody> Oh, I GET IT
<antinobody> yeah, I'm actually a socialist, so I'm well to the left of even my geographic location
<LaserJock> heh
<antinobody> And I'm a Portlander
<antinobody> that's saying something
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> Portland has all the commies :-)
<antinobody> That's not true, there are commies in other cities
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> I have an aunt and uncle living in Portland
<LaserJock> it's a neat city to visit
<antinobody> It's a nice place to go to school as well
<LaserJock> although there is a bit of a war between Reno and Portland, they both claim "Biggest Little City" status ;-)
<antinobody> Really?  I think Portland, being the biggest city in the state, really can't claim that status.  Even if it's friendlier than the average metropolis, it HAS to act as a "big" city, for the state to even function
<antinobody> economically anyway
<LaserJock> well, we have a big arch on the main street with casinos that has it so...
<imbrandon> varginia street ;)
<LaserJock> heh
<imbrandon> i spent many of nights under the light of that neon sign ;)
<LaserJock> I avoid it like the plague, it is either under construction or closed for an even
<LaserJock> t
<imbrandon> yea , last time i was down on varginia street was the bull run
<imbrandon> err maybe the ribfest
<imbrandon> *dont rember*
<LaserJock> it's always something
<imbrandon> moving the train under the streets helped alot though
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, except they are still doing a lot of work on virginia and sierra for it
* Hobbsee pats her little linux machine happily.   nice working machine :)
* Hobbsee notes that the study computer, running XP, is screwed, yet again.
* antinobody looks at Hobbsee like she might be crazy, then realizes she's in college two, and that it's just a fact of life
<antinobody> ...
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> hah
<antinobody> 93 credits into college, I STILL don't use the right too
<Hobbsee> antinobody: the study machine has been having about 4 lots of problems in the past couple of months.
<antinobody> Study machine?
<Hobbsee> yeah, machine in the study aka dad's machine
<Hobbsee> well, one of his machines
<Hobbsee> nice machine, just needs a good reformat.
<imbrandon> and kubuntu ;)
<Hobbsee> he doesnt like that idea.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, put kubuntu with my royale theme ;)
<Hobbsee> although he hasnt asked again for the live cd, i note.  oh well
<Hobbsee> ewww!
<imbrandon> hehe might convince him , better than running actual windows ;)
<antinobody> ...ewww?  What kind of theme is this?
<Hobbsee> he likes windows
<Hobbsee> antinobody: an XP'ish theme that looks horrible.
<Hobbsee> actually, it does kinda look pretty - but it's like an absolute clone of XP.
<imbrandon> http://www.buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/screenshots/snapshot1.png
<antinobody> I see, it seems blasphemous does it?
<Hobbsee> it still looks better than standard XP
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> and works better too ;)
<antinobody> it's not like making it LOOK like windows would make it run like it
<imbrandon> hey if it works like linux and looks like windows i love it ( personal opinion )
<imbrandon> antinobody, btw that screenshot is kde 3.5.3 kubuntu dapper ;) /me also has a nice howto setup for installing it too for newbs now
<shawarma> if you want it to work like windows you can put some bad RAM in it. :-)
<imbrandon> haha
<Hobbsee> shawarma: i think something like that's happening here...this is painful
<shawarma> Hobbsee: run memtest from grub. It's quite thorough.
<Hobbsee> shawarma: this is the XP study computer i was referring to.  memtest found nothing on my machine.
* Hobbsee goes to explore vaguely, and poke it with a stick.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, you can run memtest from the livecd on the windows box too ;)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> even on my hoary cd?
<imbrandon> yea it should be on the horay cd too
<LaserJock> Hoary?
<Hobbsee> oh well, that's got my ~1 gig backup off of there - it's his problem now.  it's so slow, cos it's out of space, it seems.
<imbrandon> in the grub menu
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yeah, kubuntu hoary live cd, it's what i used to repair it last time.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: jeeze, that's so last year :-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: haha
<ajmitch> evening
<LaserJock> get with the program, Edgy's the all the rage ;-)
<Hobbsee> yeah, it was my first linux cd :P
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> evening ajmitch
<ajmitch> I see we had a fun discussion about the GPL earlier
<LaserJock> hehe
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes...haha
<LaserJock> GPL violations abound in Ubuntu it seems :-)
<ajmitch> some people are a little on edge...
<imbrandon> hahah ajmitch yea i'm glad i missed that one
<ajmitch> all ready to fire off a letter to the FSF & all
<LaserJock> yeah, free and open source software isn't enough ;-)
<ajmitch> siretart: thank you for the keyring work :)
<LaserJock> yeah, that is awesome, is it working now?
<ajmitch> something I thought of today - links on REVU to limit the view
<ajmitch> so that you only see new, unarchived packages
<LaserJock> yep, get to hacking
<LaserJock> we need REVU hackers :-)
<ajmitch> shouldn't take long
<raphink> ajmitch how do you mean?
<ajmitch> except I'll have to hack on the live site :)
<imbrandon> haha
<imbrandon> thats always fun
<ajmitch> raphink: currently all the new & updated packages & also archived packages are shown
<LaserJock> filtering the view
<ajmitch> I just want some filtering & maybe some sorting by column
<raphink> ajmitch: ah right
<raphink> I'd also like more details
<ajmitch> the EasierMotuing spec also suggests we put the short description there
<raphink> like what I have here http://raphink.net/ubuntu/
<ajmitch> if possible
<raphink> showing the short description of packages
<ajmitch> that may need some DB hacking
<raphink> so you know what kind of thing you're going to review
<ajmitch> yep
<raphink> can be nice
<ajmitch> it's much more useful
<LaserJock> raphink: that was suggested in our easy motuing discussion
<LaserJock> doh, I'm slow
<raphink> great
<ajmitch> it'll probably be just another DB field, so I'll have to remember how to mangle it without losing data ;)
<LaserJock> :/ I can never remember where to get the REVU code
<LaserJock> siretart: ^^ ?
<ajmitch> just a min..
* ajmitch is just looking at it in place..
<ajmitch> LaserJock: on tiber.. /srv/svn/revu
<ajmitch> so you can probably grab it via ssh
<LaserJock> no bzr? must be REVU2 is bzr
<ajmitch> REVU2 used to be svn as well
<ajmitch> I haven't seen a recent REVU2 branch...
* ajmitch would prefer bzr, really
<ajmitch> I'll try & get svn2bzr off jelmer
<LaserJock> I sweare raphink and siretart were using bzr on it
<raphink> LaserJock: don't swear
<LaserJock> maybe that was just the revu tools thing
<ajmitch> heh
* LaserJock washes his mouth out with soap
<ajmitch> we could just put the code in a bzr branch on the supermirror :)
* raphink isout for lunch
<raphink> ++
<ajmitch> once we make sure it doesn't have any nasty bits like passwords
<imbrandon> ouch yea its never good to code those in ;)
<siretart> LaserJock: no, we started with svn, and didn't switch yet
<ajmitch> siretart: jelmer asked me to sponsor an svn2bzr package, so we can use that or tailor to switch
<siretart> LaserJock: I'd have no problems with switching to bzr, though
<siretart> ajmitch: if you could convert them, that'll be great!
<LaserJock> siretart: what's the url for the svn?
<ajmitch> siretart: you don't mind using the supermirror as a canonical branch, so to speak? :)
<siretart> LaserJock: svn co svn+ssh://srv/svn/revu{,2}
<siretart> ajmitch: I don't mind at all, just tell me from where I can branch from ;)
<LaserJock> siretart: thanks
<siretart> ajmitch: but speaking of launchpad, I think we should register a 'product' for revu then, no?
<ajmitch> siretart: if you could register a product
<ajmitch> yeah :)
<siretart> I'm on it
<ajmitch> LaserJock: svn co svn+ssh://tiber.tauware.de/srv/svn/revu
<ajmitch> siretart: have the branch owned by ubuntu-dev?
<LaserJock> bah, that url didn't work for me
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it will if you use the hostname
<ajmitch> and it'll ask for your password about 3 times
<ajmitch> since you have an account on tiber, right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<siretart> ajmitch: done. https://launchpad.net/products/revu/ is ready
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> trying to track down jelmer's branch now
<ajmitch> got it
<siretart> LaserJock: retry now, please
<ajmitch> siretart: great, now we can use malone for the various feature requests
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> moins
<LaserJock> ok, I got it
<siretart> ajmitch: as you've seen, I've added you to 'revu hackers'
<siretart> ah, sure you have :)
<ajmitch> another team? :)
* ajmitch didn't see, actually
<ajmitch> too busy trying to find the right svn2bzr :)
<siretart> well, it seems to be required for the 'driver' stuff
<siretart> then don't let me disturb you :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<LaserJock> cool, there is a revu hackers team
<siretart> since about 3 mins
<LaserJock> nice
* ajmitch fetches the revu dump
<ajmitch> well, that seemed to work
<ajmitch> except that yes, we do have the DB password in svn
<siretart> hm.
<siretart> is that that critical?
<Mithrandir> it's bad, at least.
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: svn2bzr is called "tailor"
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: tailor is a separate tool, however
<Mithrandir> yes, and? :-)
<ajmitch> there probably isn't a way to really remove a file from svn's history
<siretart> ajmitch: no, let's 'just' change it on tiber
<Mithrandir> svnadmin dump, edit dump, svnadmin load
* ajmitch already has the dump to convert
<ajmitch> siretart: change db password?
<siretart> ajmitch: well, on tiber.
<ajmitch> makes sense, I guess
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: have a good swim this morning? :)
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: yup
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: are you stalking my blog?
<ajmitch> no, you mentioned it in here earlier when I was around
<Mithrandir> ah
<Mithrandir> yeah, true
<Mithrandir> it was nice.
<Mithrandir> excellent way to start the day.
<tseng> hi tollef
<ajmitch> oh great, spiv has taken over planet ubuntu
<ajmitch> hello tseng
<tseng> hi
<Mithrandir> hiya tseng
<antinobody> hello
<antinobody> tseng
<Mithrandir> antinobody, that's everybody, right?
<antinobody> no se
<antinobody> de hecho, yo se nada sobre nada
<Mithrandir> -ELANG.
<antinobody> Oh
<antinobody> I don't know
<antinobody> in fact, I don't know anything about anything
<tseng> I got enough of that
<Mithrandir> nobody is nobody.  anti+no$foo must be every$foo.
<Mithrandir> right?
<siretart> ajmitch: password changed
<ajmitch> siretart: tell me when I can push this branch to launchpad
<ajmitch> ok :)
<antinobody> -ELANG
<tseng> Mithrandir: antibody is an english medical term
<tseng> Mithrandir: antinobody is a clever twist
<antinobody> it is?
<Mithrandir> tseng: true dat.
<tseng> I thought so.
<antinobody> I hadn't thought of that
<tseng> oh
<Mithrandir> I know what antibodies are but I didn't connect the dots in this case.
<tseng> then I guess I am the clever one
<antinobody> It was more a philisophical description
<antinobody> Mithrandir neither did I
<ajmitch> hello StevenK
<ajmitch> siretart: https://launchpad.net/products/revu/+branches
<ajmitch> currently pushing
* StevenK waves
<siretart> ajmitch: w00t :)
<siretart> ajmitch: this is for revu1, right? could you do this as well with the revu2 branch?
<ajmitch> sure
<siretart> thanks
<ajmitch> just push it as branch name revu2?
<ajmitch> I shouldn't have named the 1st one trunk, I guess
<ajmitch> oh well :)
<ajmitch> revu2 converted
<siretart> revu2/trunk should do fine
<ajmitch> you have a revu2 product?
<siretart> oh, thats the product name, I see
<siretart> no, no other product
<ajmitch> I should check if we can rename branches
<siretart> revu/revu2-trunk should do fine
<siretart> I don't think so
<siretart> I don't think that you can rename branches
<ajmitch> pushing revu2
<LaserJock> the LP admins can change things
<ajmitch> that's what I figured
<siretart> ajmitch: finished pushing trunk?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> it's sloooow
<siretart> ah, ok
<ajmitch> siretart: trunk pushed
<siretart> checking out
<siretart> great. full history saved. good work, ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch and StevenK
<ajmitch> thank jelmer if you see him round :)
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<siretart> hmm.. the revu2-trunk has tags/ and branches/ subdirs included
<ajmitch> hm
<siretart> ajmitch: I remember you could prefix that in tailor, no?
<ajmitch> I must have stuffed up there
<siretart> what shall we do now? replace that bzr import or 'fix' it?
<ajmitch> siretart: what do you think of adding the short description to the SourcePackage table for revu?
<ajmitch> can we replace it?
<siretart> ajmitch: yes, by a hack: you login with 'sftp' on bazaar.lauchpad.net, and replace all files in the .bzr subdir
<ajmitch> without asking an admin to remove the branch
<ajmitch> I worried about that :)
<siretart> I've done this before, it works
<ajmitch> might as well replace it
<siretart> the trick is to not remove the .bzr directory itself (you don't have permission to do that anyway)
<siretart> and to not use bzr, but e.g. lftp or nautilus
* ajmitch tries
<ajmitch> and the trick of getting the right directory
<siretart> oh. right
<ajmitch> ok, I'm in with sftp, just rm everything in the .bzr dir for that branch?
<ajmitch> good, nautilus works :)
<siretart> jepp
<chore> if i want to chmod a ntfs partition it says it can't ("read-only file system"). is there anything i can do?
<DarkMageZ> chore, ntfs write support is considered experimental and not reasonably safe
<chore> DarkMageZ: i only want to make it accessible read-only to unprivileged users
<DarkMageZ> hmm, to memory their was something about mounting ntfs partitions in the wiki (wiki.ubuntu.com), setting permissions and such
<azeem> chore: what node are you chmodding?
<chore> azeem: /media/hda1, if i understood well your question
<chore> is it safe to read/write ntfs partitions?
<chore> (using fuse)
<Hobbsee> chore: it's not really safe at all.
<chore> Hobbsee: could it corrupt the data on the partition?
<chore> Hobbsee: is there any safer approach then?
<dsas> chore: captive-ntfs is arguably the safest. I don't trust any of them though and won't use them on my systems.
<imbrandon> chore, yes it most likely WILL corrupt the data ( using fuse ) there is a safer way called captive-ntfs ( google ) that uses native ntfs dll's and wine but its still not without worry and its also very slow
<imbrandon> note: also you need a valid windows lic to use captive ^^
<kelmo> siretart: any chance i can coax your opinion from you about my last announcement on pkg-wpa in the coming days?
<chore> thank you
<chore> imbrandon: i am using a pirated copy of windows anyway
<chore> imbrandon: i hate buying things from microsoft
<siretart> kelmo: hey kelmo
<siretart> kelmo: I've been thinking for a while about the init script
<kelmo> siretart: hey (sorry, forgot my manners)
<siretart> kelmo: I'm still not decided yet I cannot exactly explain why I don't like it
<kelmo> siretart: do you think I _like_ it?
<siretart> atm its just a feeling, and I want to think more deeply about it before answering
<chore> dsas, imbrandon, Hobbsee: which approach is considered the most promising of them all (for accessing ntfs read-write)?
* Hobbsee doesnt trust any of them, frankly.  
<kelmo> siretart: i do not, but have no better alternative
<dsas> chore: I don't use any on my own machines.
* Hobbsee tends to copy from linux to windows via explore2fs, or from windows to linux, and edit from either OS
<kelmo> siretart: understood
<imbrandon> i dont use any, nor do i use windows ( special a hacked version )
<imbrandon> chore, but the best solution if you did would be to use a fat32 partition to transfer files
<imbrandon> linux can read/write fat32 safely
<imbrandon> or if you realy want to live on the edge install ( or convert an existing install via partition magic ) xp on fat32 not ntfs ;)
<chore> Hobbsee: what if you use ext3 partitions? can explore2fs still read them?
<Hobbsee> chore: yep
* Hobbsee has only ever used explore2fs with ext3
<chore> Hobbsee: but not write, right?
<imbrandon> chore, yea and there are also other drivers out ther for windows that will read / write ext2/3 since they are open standards ;)
<Hobbsee> chore: yep
* Hobbsee hasnt tested out those drivers
<imbrandon> i used extfsmount alot in windows when i did use it
<imbrandon> mounts ext2/3 just like another drive
<chore> any idea why the ntfs partitions are unaccessible by unprivileged users by default in ubuntu?
<imbrandon> chore, http://e2fsprogs.sourceforge.net/ext2.html   <-- mount ext2/3 with read/write in windows like any other drive
<imbrandon> chore becouse of the umask set in fstab
<Hobbsee> chore: they get mounted weirdly.  a working line in /etc/fstab looks like this:
<Hobbsee>  /dev/hda1       /media/windows  ntfs    nls=utf8,ro,user,umask=000 0       0
<chore> imbrandon: that's cool
<chore> thank you
* Hobbsee considers filing a wishlist bug for mounting NTFS partitions too.
<siretart> kelmo: what semantics would this one have? http://paste.debian.net/7879
<chore> imbrandon: ok, then why is umask set like that in fstab? what are the reasons?
* Hobbsee did for the "multiverse is in backports, but not in regular sources list"
<imbrandon> chore, no idea , its easy to change though
<siretart> the problem I have with the init script is the right time when it is called
<chore> imbrandon: i know it's easy. however, i am getting the impression dapper is quite unpolished
<imbrandon> chore, no dapper is polished, windows interoperability is unpolished as with any linux becouse of non open standards ( we need to take this to #ubuntu-offtopic it isnt a universe packaging question anymore )
<kelmo> siretart: the pasted code would fail, ifupdown cannot call ifup/ifdown, it will be locked
<kelmo> siretart: afaik
<kelmo> siretart: but that is not the real point of the code, its purporse is to bring down the interfaces before sendsigs kills them
<siretart> aah, now I see the problem.. hrmpf
<kelmo> siretart: this is not really much todo with wpa_action as it is todo with a clean "down" of an interface using wpa_supplicant in the void of process dependencies
<siretart> hm. for me, the right solution seems to me to make ifupdown don't fail on ifdown calls
<siretart> well, you're right. there is besides hacking ifupdown no much alternative
<kelmo> not without massive core changes
<siretart> well, I agree
<siretart> let's go this way
<lucas> any idea of when the syncs will start occuring ?
<siretart> perhaps we can revisit this issue on netconf-devel
<siretart> lucas: syncs have already started for a while
<lucas> mmh, you sure of that ?
<siretart> pretty sure
<lucas> none of the packages I monitor have been synced
<ajmitch> lucas: source packages will be, if unmodified in ubuntu
<siretart> lucas: check https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
<siretart> lucas: are you sure you didn't want to ask about 'merges' rather than 'syncs'?
<kelmo> siretart: okay, thanks for your time and thought, I did not want to commit this change without at least some discussion
<siretart> kelmo: you're right about that
<kelmo> siretart: i think this weekend i'll push 0.5.4 to Kyle
<lucas> siretart: sorry, my script was wrong :-)
<siretart> kelmo: I will forward the issue to netconf-devel
<kelmo> siretart: i expect madduck will jump all over wpa_action ;-)
<siretart> kelmo: I've seen there are some more pretty dbus interfaces being developed for wpasupplicant :)
<kelmo> yes
<kelmo> there are
<ajmitch> lucas: inexcusable :)
<kelmo> siretart: this sort of communication system is what makes linux systems such a nice desktop when everything is supporting the nice features
<siretart> kelmo: it is not that widly deployed, but sure it rocks.. hard
<siretart> oha
<siretart> so late, need to run now.
<siretart> cu
<ajmitch> hub: ping
<hub> pong
<hub> wassup?
<ajmitch> just wondering why you put {lib,}gphoto2 on REVU?
<ajmitch> if it's in sid as you said
<lucas> 1600 merges to do, in 20 days. that's 80/day, ouch !
<hub> ajmitch: it was not at that time
<hub> ajmitch: I archived it since
<ajmitch> hm right
<ajmitch> I misread the mail, sorry to bother you :)
<hub> np
<ajmitch> it'll have to be merged/synced anyway
<hub> yeah
<hub> the package work as is
<hub> I apt-get sourced it and built
<ajmitch> it's just whether some of the patches need to be carried forward or not
<ajmitch> for those corner cases you don't run into
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
* Hobbsee sighs
<Hobbsee> bddebian: why are people such morons?  why's everyone on edge today?
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Well I'm running on 3 hours sleep so..
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
* Hobbsee hugs bddebian, and sends him back to sleep
<Hobbsee> bddebian: not much here, except for swearing before being banned, and endless flamewars.
<zul> flamewars where?
<imbrandon> lol everywhere it seems today
<imbrandon> was one in here about gpl and ubuntu this morning
<imbrandon> ;)
<zul> yeah saw the gpl one...that one was funny
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, everyone's on edgy becouse of the era of edgy eft ;)
<imbrandon> gawd that was bad
<Hobbsee> urgh.
<imbrandon> </ignore>
* imbrandon might need a nap myself
<spacey> ahh i missed that
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that was particularly bad
<imbrandon> ajmitch yea i realized that after i hit <enter> /me gives up on the bad jokes for a while
* imbrandon takes a nap
<imbrandon> back after bit
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: does that mean that finally someone else will get the dunce cap, instead of me/
<imbrandon> hahaha Hobbsee yea i think i get it for that one
* Hobbsee puts the dunce cap on imbrandon, and tries to avoid it for a while.
<imbrandon> ;)
* imbrandon sits in the corner and draws a kubuntu logo on the dunce cap in boredom
<imbrandon> .oO ( zZzZ )     night night
* Hobbsee defenestrates imbrandon for defacing the duncecap.
<lucas> is somebody here using nstx successfully ?
<Mithrandir> I used to
<Mithrandir> it's total crack, though
<lucas> I ran into several occurences of networks where nstx wouldn't work
<bddebian> Crack?  Who has crack? :-)
<lucas> while ozymandns (ssh over dns, simpler perl code) works
<lucas> so I suspect problems with nstx
<Mithrandir> the code isn't very good
* ajmitch needs some caffeine
* Hobbsee hands ajmitch a strawberry.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you're not helpful...
<Hobbsee> heh
<ajmitch> morning crimsun
<zul> hey crimsun
<Gloubiboulga> TheMuso, are you around and not busy with a BoF?
<TheMuso> Gloubiboulga: Yes.
<Gloubiboulga> TheMuso, lsr fails to build...
<TheMuso> huh?
<TheMuso> In pbuilder?
<Gloubiboulga> yes
<TheMuso> ok I'm checking it now.
<Gloubiboulga> there's a buildlog on REVU
<TheMuso> oh ok/.
<Gloubiboulga> IMO you should depend on autotools-dev and copy config.{gues,sub} in the directory
<TheMuso> Oh of course
<Gloubiboulga> and the debhelper version should be >= 5.0.0
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<_ion> AFAIR cdbs does that automatically, btw.
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: we've gone up a versoin?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: have been for quite awhile
<Hobbsee> oh ok, i thoguht we were still at 4
<TheMuso> How do you guys know these things re debhelper?
<TheMuso> and standards?
<ajmitch> we follow debian
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: they know everything
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Is there a particular list to be on to find out these things?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: it's our job to know & tell people when reviewing
<ajmitch> if you want to follow debian, then perhaps debian-devel-announce
<TheMuso> Yeah I know, but I want to know so I don't have to re-adjust every time I upload a package for review.
<TheMuso> Ok thanks.
<ajmitch> mainly just keeping in touch with what other people are doing & saying
<TheMuso> Right.
<dnel> 6c/part
<fbond> packages for revu: should they have "edgy" in debian/changelog?
<Hawkwind> Yes
<hub> yes
<fbond> thanks
<fbond> Currently uploading midisport-firmware...
<fbond> This is firmware for USB midi controllers
<fbond> the license is a bit strange, and the firmware can only be distributed with the original source package
<fbond> So my package downloads the original source package at install time
<fbond> and grabs the firmware from it
<fbond> Does this all sound reasonble?
<dothebart> hy.
<dothebart> i've made debian build scripts for citadel.org.
<dothebart> and it seems as /var/run/citadel gets wiped on reboot? does one need to register these?
<fbond> I think your init scripts are supposed to create /var/run/* on boot
<dothebart> well... citadel utilizes inittab, so there are no init scripts...
<fbond> um? no init scripts?
<fbond> where exactly does it get launched from?
<_ion> fbond: inittab, as he said.
<_ion> How unnice.
<fbond> I was under the impression that only getty, etc. get launched there...
<dothebart> well... it respawns automaticaly that ways.
<fbond> can't programs like start-stop-daemon take care of that?
<_ion> fbond: Nope.
* _ion waits for launchd with enthusiasm.
<fbond> heh.
<_ion> Sorry, upstart.
* _ion mixed up the names.
<fbond> well, wondering why a daemon dies prematurely except by bugs...
<fbond> does it not make sense to replace the inittab stuff with an init script?
<dothebart> you're right, that is the only reason.
<fbond> that would help your cause ... just change it in your package, maybe?
<dothebart> in some manner yes, as for example vserver and *bsd don't have them.
<fbond> I guess I'm shabby on my *nix history... Didn't realize daemons got launched directly from inittab.
<fbond> Anyway, there must be a Debian policy on this.
<fbond> I'm quite sure you will want to switch it over to init scripts.
* _ion would never expect a usual daemon package to modify inittab.
* fbond wouldn't either
<dothebart> well... running pppd from inittab fixes many problems allso.
<fbond> hm.  no experience with this.
<dothebart> stuff like mysql or kannel fix that issue by wrapper scripts.
<fbond> But if it was a common thing to do, Debian would have an inittab.d directory
<fbond> yes, that makes more sense to me
<dothebart> yep. right.
<cypher> can we package a higher version of a product and provide it ?
<zul> depends on the product
<dothebart> /var/spool/citadel will not be purged on reboot?
<cypher> zul people are free to package and put anything on universe or multiverse right ?
<zul> pretty much yeah..
<zul> within limits
<fbond> dothebart: /var/spool/* should not be purged.  /var/run/* is, because it's supposed to be related to currently running processes only.
<fbond> IIUC
<dothebart> yep. citadel just opens its unix domainsockets in /var/run
<dothebart> thats pretty ok, but the dir should exist ;-)
<bipolar> hiya all
<bddebian> Heya bipolar
<bipolar> So, I'm not the only one working on citadel packages?
<dothebart> well, i did a bit.
<dothebart> the solution should be creating an init script, at least for citadel-server.
<dothebart> i think webcit can continue going by inittab, because of it has just ports to open.
<bipolar> cool
<bipolar> I think a webcit init script might be more uniform though.
<cypher> there is debian package kplayer available for download but when i searched packages.ubuntu.com, it is not showing up
<crimsun> what is kplayer?
<linuxmonkey> you mean KMPlayer?
<cypher> crimsun it is a video application based on mplayer.. seems to be very good from reading the description
<dothebart> well.... webcit happenes to crash sometimes. i think the init tab is a good surrounder for that.
<bipolar> ah...
<cypher> linuxmonkey no kmplayer is different
<dothebart> if there is an error in the c-code.
<crimsun> cypher: no, not afaik
<crimsun> cypher: did you ask in #kubuntu{,devel}?
<dothebart> this does no harm in the primary way, as it is allmost stateless.
<cypher> crimsun no i have not yet asked
<cypher> but motu is the right channel right
<dothebart> the user just gets a blank page in that case.
<crimsun> cypher: if you want to package it, yes, but it makes more sense to ask if it exists in #kubuntu{,devel} first
<dothebart> i've seen that happen half a dozent times in the last year, but users keep on retriggering errors ;-)
<cypher> crimsun is there packages.kubuntu.com similar to packages.ubuntu.com ? ;)
<crimsun> no.
<crimsun> there shouldn't be, either, since all the Ubuntu derivatives share the same archive.
<bipolar> dothebart: should I work on the debian packaging or the init script?
<dothebart> have a look at the citadel server init scripts.
<raphink> let's sync&merge :)
<bddebian> w000t
<raphink> hehe
* raphink is about to request 2 syncs and 1 merge 
<raphink> in a row
<raphink> hop
<raphink> here's one
<bddebian> raphink: Howd do you know that they aren't already going to be synced/merged?
<raphink> bddebian: the current version is an ubuntu one
<raphink> in this case, current version in edgy is 1.9.15.99+1.9.16alpha-1ubuntu1 for libchipcard2
<raphink> this means it has to be reviewed manually
<raphink> to check wether the ubuntu changes can be dropped or not
<raphink> and decide wether we need a sync or a merge
<raphink> in this case, the changes made in the ubuntu1 were done in Debian, too
<bddebian> Aye, but won't MoM do that for you?
<raphink> so I'm requesting a sync
<raphink> bddebian: MoM is not started yet
<bddebian> I know
<imbrandon> MoM ?
<raphink> but I don't use MoM a lot anyway
<bddebian> imbrandon: Merge-O-Matic
<raphink> I can analyze packages manually ;)
<imbrandon> ah
<raphink> it's not that hard to read changelogs and conclude
<bddebian> raphink: Well enjoy :-)
<raphink> I want to upgrade kmymoney
<raphink> but that means upgrading libaqbanking
* imbrandon just wishes the sync was done so other stuff can be started
<raphink> which means upgrading libchipcard2
<raphink> so i'm doing all these in a row
<bddebian> Ah
<raphink> just built libchipcard2 in edgy
<raphink> built fine
<raphink> so I'm gonna try to build libaqbanking with this new package
<raphink> :)
<bddebian> Yeah, I had to play with that stuff and tried gnucash too in Breezy
<raphink> let's go :)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> building libaqbanking now :)
<TheMuso> Gloubiboulga: Does the build log only apear on revu if it failed to build?
<Gloubiboulga> TheMuso, no, but we have to manually start the build any time a new package is uploaded
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<Gloubiboulga> TheMuso, I start the build for your last upload
<TheMuso> Ok.
<TheMuso> Hey jsgotangco. Are you in the conference room atm?
<jsgotangco> TheMuso: yeah its open =)
<TheMuso> how many in there atm?
<jsgotangco> ummm 6
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
* TheMuso ponders heading back down there.
<Gloubiboulga> TheMuso, it's built
<jsgotangco> nothing much to do in this place
<jsgotangco> ahh are you upstairs?
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> Gloubiboulga: Yeah I know.
<TheMuso> Looks like it built successfully.
<jsgotangco> internet in your room? thought it wasn't free
<TheMuso> I asked clair about it on Sunday, and she said it was. Both tollef and I have been using it.
<jsgotangco> ahhhh
<jsgotangco> but the cable is pretty short...
<TheMuso> yep.
<TheMuso> Well there is one that sits on the desk in our room.
<TheMuso> So we share it via wireless ad-hoc.
<jsgotangco> hmmm actually elmo has a linksys router upstairs
<TheMuso> I am on level 1.
<TheMuso> Convince me to come down there and I will... :)
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<chillywilly> fun
<chillywilly> a complete dapper mirror with updates, backports, and security is only 12GB or so (without sources packages)
* chillywilly runs debmnirror again without -nosource
<crimsun> heh, some of us don't even have 1 GB free
<crimsun> heck, I don't even have 200 MB free
<chillywilly> 26GB
<chillywilly> I have 556GB free
<chillywilly> :P
<fbond> Hi
<fbond> I am working on a package that requires an entry in /etc/services
<fbond> who should I speak to about this?
<azeem> requires?
<fbond> well
<azeem> I thought /etc/services is rather informative
<cypher> IANA governs it
<fbond> In any case.
<fbond> It would like an entry
<azeem> I think it should get added upstream
<fbond> IANA doesn't care about high ports, does she?
<cypher> fbond, yes but there are higher ports registered
<fbond> I see
<fbond> My package would like 14541
<fbond> is it Debian policy that lines may not exist in /etc/services that are not IANA-sanctioned?
<cypher> not sure
<jaldhar> fbond: I don't think so
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-23
<nixternal> lear
<nixternal> oops
<linuxmonkey> lol
<Hobbsee> morning all
<ajmitch> good morning Hobbsee
<ajmitch> good to see you up before lunchtime :)
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hah
<ajmitch> hm
<Hobbsee> hm?
<ajmitch> thinking
<Hobbsee> 42.
<ajmitch> about debconf & python
<Hobbsee> what the?  various ubuntu people are getting spammed.  great.
<ajmitch> and?
<ajmitch> spammed in what way?
<Hobbsee> just sending three of us ubuntu people mailing list crap email.
<ajmitch> right
<Hobbsee> what's weird is that there are three of us in the to line - all ubuntu people.
<ajmitch> not that werid
* Hobbsee thought spammers usually bcc'd everyone
* ajmitch cannot speel todae
<Hobbsee> shameful.
<ajmitch> yes
* Hobbsee assigns ajmitch to go and write out the dictionary, so he will be able to spell in future
<ajmitch> not going to happen
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> that was always people's punishments here for those who couldnt spell.
<ajmitch> I can spell just fine, except when my hands are half-frozen
<pschulz01> ajmitch, Hobbsee: I'm finding that there are packages (MOTU) that are available in Breezy but not Dapper(don't install), for one reason or another.. what should I do?
<ajmitch> such as?
<pschulz01> pstoedit, fontforge
<ajmitch> why don't they install?
<pschulz01> The following packages have unmet dependencies.
<pschulz01>   pstoedit: Depends: libpstoedit0c2a (>= 3.42) but it is not going to be install ed
<pschulz01> E: Broken packages
<ajmitch> I'd say you've got other issues there, since both are installable here
<pschulz01> Hmmm.. thanks..
<ajmitch> libpstoedit0c2a |     3.42-3 | http://apt-proxy dapper/universe Packages
<ajmitch> it is available, at least
<pschulz01> I'll try on another machine that is a little less 'touched'.
<pschulz01> Hmm.. both packages have installed fine on thei other machine.. so probably a 'sources.list' issue.
<pschulz01> That was the problem.. thankyou both.
* pschulz01 shouts some beers.
* ajmitch wonders where to collect from :)
<Hobbsee> pschulz01: paris, of course.
<pschulz01> I'll keep track of them on my Wiki page.. and you can collect them should I ever get to a Ubuntu meeting.
<ajmitch> hehe
<pschulz01> or you travel to Linux.Conf.Au
<ajmitch> I probably will be
<Hobbsee> pschulz01: where are you?
<pschulz01> Adelaide.. South Australia.
<pschulz01> (Wine Country)
* ajmitch suspected as much
<Hobbsee> pschulz01: heh, right.  where abouts?
* Hobbsee should have visited pschulz01 while she was there in january too.
<pschulz01> Hobbsee: ? Thebarton
<pschulz01> Hobbsee: Live in Mawson lakes.
* Hobbsee has a vague idea of there...
<Hobbsee> oh...there...right...
<ajmitch> pschulz01: were you at LCA this year?
<pschulz01> Location - http://news.mawsonlakes.org/community, ignore the markers..
<pschulz01> ajmitch: Yes.. thoughly enjoyed New Zealand. I ran the (half-day) embedded miniconf.
<ajmitch> ah r ight
<ajmitch> I may have met you at some point then
<pschulz01> Quite possibly.. have you been to any previous LCA's?
<ajmitch> adelaide in 2004
<pschulz01> I was behind the registration desk there..
<pschulz01> .. organising the helpers.
<ajmitch> ok :)
<pschulz01> ajmitch: Where are you?
<ajmitch> dunedin
<pschulz01> Cheers.. bye for now.. off to play with fontforge :-)
<Toadstool> re
<nixternal> hows it goin' Toadstool
<Hobbsee> hi Kyral
<Kyral> hallo
* Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee, then runs off and hides under the bed.
* Hobbsee searches for Mithrandir, then tickles him mercillesly.
<Hobbsee> pretty silly, trying to hide under a bed, you know.
<Kyral> ....you do realize that was a ploy to get you near his bed
<Mithrandir> yeah, especially with those beds here you can't hide under.
<Hobbsee> Kyral: that's inappropriate, thanks.
<Mithrandir> Kyral: eh?
<Kyral> Sorry...mind is half asleep
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir is not stupid, Kyral
<Kyral> appropriete checks are disabled
<Mithrandir> apology accepted from me at least.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: how's .au today?
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: kinda cold again, not really much new :)
<Kyral> omg...
<Kyral> Currently viewing in Konqueror: Questionable Content: New comics every Monday through Friday, URL: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=646
<Kyral> THat one...omg
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: do you feel you've been able to help out and follow the spec process?
<Kyral> Is you all in Paris now?
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i dont know about helping out, but it all makes a bit more sense now
<Hobbsee> besides, it's fun actually getting to chat to the not-so-big-and-scary-devs-now type people
<Hobbsee> Kyral: i'm not
<Mithrandir> Kyral: I'm in Paris, yes.
<Kyral> Have fun eating snails....ick
<Mithrandir> they have plenty of non-snail food here too
<Kyral> See I couldn't last in France because I wouldn't be able to get a good hamburger
<Kyral> and I'm NOT talking fast food
<Kyral> Gimme a 1lb patty of ground chuck, medium rare, bacon, and some cheese
<Kyral> Damnit
<Kyral> now I'm craving one
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> looks like you'd better go grab one, and find your brain in the process :P
<Kyral> One of my many quests in life is to find the perfect hamburger
<Mithrandir> serves you right. :-P
<Kyral> Because, to me, nothing is as American as the hamburger
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: um, why are you awake yet?
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: my body decided that I didn't need more than six hours of sleep.
<Hobbsee> how weird.
<Mithrandir> when it does that, it's easier to comply and just sneak off for a nap than try to argue.
* Hobbsee wishes her body would always decide that.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Kyral> As Jimmy Buffet's song "Cheeseburger In Paradise" goes
<Kyral> But at night I'd had these wonderful dreams
<Kyral> Some kind of sensuous treat
<Kyral> Not zuchinni, fettucini or bulghar wheat
<Kyral> But a big warm bun and a huge hunk of meat
<Kyral> sorry for the paste
<Kyral> anywya sleepytime
<Hobbsee_> interesting quit message.
<Mithrandir> that was a new quit message .. dead socket.
<Hobbsee> what did i miss?
<Hobbsee> yes...
* Hobbsee hit ctrl+alt+backspace
<Mithrandir> you missed Kyral pasting about cheeseburgers in paradise.
<Hobbsee> ah, right
<Mithrandir> I almost wrote cheeseburgers in paris.
<Mithrandir> oh well.
<Mithrandir> I guess it's a bit early for me..
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i could help you wake up a bit more, if you wanted...
<Mithrandir> oh?
<Mithrandir> inject loads of coffee into bloodstream?
* Hobbsee finds some more icecubes, and sticks them down Mithrandir's back
<Hobbsee> hmmm...no...not a lover of needles
<Mithrandir> I've already got a cold starting, so ice's not very helpful. :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Mithrandir> I don't mind, I donate blood every three months.
* Hobbsee should do that.  dad does.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: to answer your above question - its' hard to do kde stuff when it's not in TS or gobby, and that's the stuff i probably know most about.  but the stuff i am seeing is interesting, on most topics
* Hobbsee still gets amused that people think she's in paris.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: using TS is really, really painful when you're discussing with somebody at the same table, but I absolutely see your point about it making it harder for non-attendees.
<Mithrandir> there's no real reason not to use gobby, IMO
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: oh of course - i regularly do tech stuff, so understand that
<Hobbsee> yeah, it's kinda like irc - adn what's the point?
<Hobbsee> irc gets done for the rest of the year
<Mithrandir> exactly.
<antinobody> Hola todos
<Hobbsee> hi antinobody
<Mithrandir> the whole point of the conference is to have the high-bandwidth face-to-face conversations.
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Mithrandir> ehlo bodyantino
* antinobody is confused again
* Hobbsee notes that these chips really are out of date.  hmm.
<Mithrandir> antinobody: confused over what?
* antinobody wishes he had chips, out of date or otherwise
<antinobody> who is bodyantino?  and what is ehlo?
<Hobbsee> ehlo is presumably hello, bodyantino is you
<Mithrandir> antinobody: ehlo is really a way to say hi to smtp (mail) servers, but I abuse it to say hi to people as well.
<Mithrandir> bodyantino is just your name mangled a bit.
<antinobody> The out of date chips must be giving you super mind powers Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> or he's suggetsing that you're a smtp mail server...take your pick
* Mithrandir smirks
<Hobbsee> they're still kinda tasty - just a bit stale.
* antinobody WISHES he were an smtp server
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: if we at some future conference could equip a few people with decent mics and a camera of some sort, that'd be an interesting experiment.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: indeed, it would be.  i dont know how much a camera would help, but the idea of everyone on mics would be good - if you could get the bandwidth for a decent connection
<Mithrandir> latency has been more of a problem this time, IMO.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: see, would you want to just record and stream all teh stuff from paris, or would you want our input coming back as well?
<Hobbsee> because the answer to that tells you the way to go about the problem
<Mithrandir> I think getting the input back over IRC for instance will be way better than trying to make everybody use teamspeak
<Hobbsee> that's true
<Hobbsee> seeing as all people should be fast typists by now
<Hobbsee> having to type so much
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i should know this, but define latency?
<Mithrandir> "lag"
<Hobbsee> yeah, right
<Mithrandir> it'd mean people not physically present would be at an disadvantage, but it'd probably be easier to get the participants to actually use it.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: how big are the rooms, anyway?
<Mithrandir> like here, I run irc from my home box, and I have visible lag due to the latency to my home box being around 300ms.
<Mithrandir> there are two small ones and a fairly big one with space for everybody.
<Hobbsee> true - everyone needs decent connections
<Hobbsee> mmm ok - atlas is the big one, presumably
<Mithrandir> yup
<Mithrandir> actually, three small rooms.  There's the drafting room too.
<antinobody> Is there a way for those of us not in paris to get some insight into what's going on?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: sometimes.
* Hobbsee contributed to the forum discussions yesterday a bit.
<antinobody> Hobbsee um...congratulations?
<Hobbsee> [14:41]  <Mithrandir> there's no real reason not to use gobby, IMO <-- grr, missed the double negative.  gobby does seem useful - although, of course, if people type all of what they're saying, then what's the point of the meeting?
<Mithrandir> I probably wouldn't type all I'd be saying, but you could follow the spec evolving and ask useful questions about the spec when there's something which isn't clear why is so.
<Mithrandir> so it's not a 100% solution, but it's probably a lot easier to get people to actually use.
<Hobbsee> yeah, that would make sense
<Hobbsee> of course
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: even what we've got now is still an improvement over the last conference, i suspect
<antinobody> It might make more sense to have someone taking a psuedo transcript, or notes, and relaying tem via IRC
<antinobody> while allowing most of the people involved
* Hobbsee wasnt watching the last conference, unfortunately, to compare.
<antinobody> to simply work
<Mithrandir> well, gobby was the most unstable piece of junk I've ever used in Montreal so that doesn't really compare.
<Mithrandir> the bonus of having somebody there who just reads the spec and says "what do you mean here?" is you'll end up with a better spec.
<antinobody> what IS gobby, if I may ask?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: it's been done a few times - it does distract the devs a bit though, i suspect
<Mithrandir> antinobody: collaborative editor.
<Hobbsee> [14:58]  <Hobbsee> !info gobby
<Hobbsee> [14:58]  <ubotu> gobby: collaborative text editor. In repository universe, is optional. Version 0.3.0-1ubuntu3.1 (dapper), package size 464 kB, installed size 1628 kB
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yeah, exactly.  and thats' probably worht it.  what surprises me is that a lot of this stuff wasnt tested by the people who did happen to get to the conference early
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: true, but using TS for instance was a decree by Mark.
<antinobody> thank you by the by
<Mithrandir> it's not something any of the developers are happy about
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yeah, of course
<Mithrandir> both the "is proprietary" part, but also the "must use PTT for it to be useful" which gets tedious
<Hobbsee> actually, i'm more surprised that people continually whinged about it when they found it wasnt working, and didnt get on with the BOF
<Hobbsee> yeah, it was painful without PTT though, unfortunately.  so it was an experiment, it failed, find ways to make it better for next time.
<Mithrandir> yup
<Hobbsee> if we're all replying by IRC, so you dont hear us, i'd still be tempted to have a condenser mic in the middle of the table, it should pick up more or less everything (maybe including outside rubbish that you dont want, etc, depends how sensitive), and stream that.
<Mithrandir> yeah, that'd be useful.
<Mithrandir> it'd probably be better in the small rooms than the large room as there's less enviromental noise.
<Hobbsee> yes, exactly - the big room would be the problem
<Hobbsee> i expect
<Mithrandir> I find it hard enough to follow conversations on the other end of the table there.
<Hobbsee> how many people are these tables?
<Mithrandir> ok, my hearing's not the best one around, but still.
<Hobbsee> and are they circular, or what?
<Mithrandir> up to about ten for the largest bofs.
<Mithrandir> yes, circular tables
<Mithrandir> a problem is that lots of people who are just having discussions are also having them in the same room.  Coupled with not-great acoustics it all ends up being a bit problematic.
<Hobbsee> huh?  i dont understand the first sentence.
<antinobody> He's referring to side-conversations
<Hobbsee> as in, people are discussing things, and not in an official BOF?
<Mithrandir> yes
<Hobbsee> ah, great.  send 'em outside :P
<Hobbsee> s/outside/lobby or wherever
<Mithrandir> we should have had a room where such discussions could have taken place
<antinobody> No, side-conversations are important for any kind of engineering
<Mithrandir> so we could send them off to somewhere else, but of course not stop them from happening.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yeah, that'd be the idea
<Mithrandir> but.. I'm off for a swim.  Be back in an hour and a half or so.
<Hobbsee> unfortunately, most rooms werent built with acoustics in mind
<Hobbsee> enjoy :)
<Mithrandir> actually, Hobbsee, we should write this up as a spec for the next conference.
<antinobody> ten divertido
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hehe, yeah, mayb
<Hobbsee> e
<antinobody> I mean, have fun
<Mithrandir> :-)
* Hobbsee doubts she'll be there though
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you'd really think this would warrant a spec?
<jmg> heh
<Hobbsee> lovely netsplit.
<jmg> ..
<jmg> is there a paris irc channel?
<antinobody> netsplit, is that what that's called
<antinobody> ?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: yeah
<Hobbsee> there's a factoid on it, too
<antinobody> I'll have to look that up someday
<antinobody> You don't happen to know how I'm supposed to sign the code of conduct online by chance?
* Hobbsee should
<Hobbsee> antinobody: factoid is in a PM
<antinobody> Hobbsee I saw, and I did in fact enjoy the show
<Hobbsee> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
<antinobody> I understand it involves a gpg-key, launchpad, and that document I read
<antinobody> how those are related confuses me
<Hobbsee> antinobody: ah right
<Hobbsee> do you have a GPG key?
<antinobody> Hobbsee I did, briefly
<Hobbsee> what's happened to it?
<antinobody> I believe I wiped it unthinkingly
<Hobbsee> ah
<antinobody> indeed
<Hobbsee> try gpg --list-keys
<Hobbsee> and see if it's there
<antinobody> hay nada
<Hobbsee> otherwise you'll need to regenerate it, and then upload it
<Hobbsee> via the !gpg link
* Hobbsee never understood all that the first time around.
<antinobody> ...
* antinobody still doesn't understand it
<antinobody> Do I need to regenerate the same key somehow?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: https://launchpad.net/people/sean-rains/+editpgpkeys
<Hobbsee> no, you can generate a new key
* Hobbsee wonders if he has to revoke the old key.
<Hobbsee> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto is also useful
<antinobody> Hmm...I used it once, for that okle patch
<antinobody> that's about it
<antinobody> I never uploaded it either, so I dunno
<antinobody> I'll just generate a new one
<Hobbsee> antinobody: if you never uploaded it, then i think you can just ignore it.
<Hobbsee> wow, that's a rather nice guide, now
<antinobody> I generated it, then followed the launchpad instructions on importing an OpenPGP key
<antinobody> unfortunately, I have to wait 30 minutes now
<Hobbsee> cool
<Hobbsee> why wait 30 mins?
<antinobody> Did you enter your complete fingerprint correctly, as produced by gpg --fingerprint?
<antinobody> 
<antinobody> Have you published your key to a public key server, using gpg --send-keys?
<antinobody> If you have just published your key to the keyserver, note that the keys take a while to be synchronized to our internal keyserver.
<antinobody> Please wait at least 30 minutes before attempting to import your key.
<antinobody> that's why
<nixternal> it shouldn't take 30 minutes..i think when i did it...it happened pretty quick...give it a couple more minutes then try again..you should be fine
<antinobody> Hey, cool, I have karma points.  I don't even know what those are
<antinobody> nixternal will do
<Hobbsee> antinobody: probably from patches or bug reports
<antinobody> yeah, I did some triaging yesterday, I imagine that's it
<antinobody> and I filed a very bizarre bug
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: yes, I think it'd be nice to have as a spec.  An informative one, maybe.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hmmm...
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: or, informational I think it's called.
<Mithrandir> since all specs should be informative. :-P
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> should be, yes.
* Hobbsee cant quite imagine what to put in there though
<Mithrandir> do you want to register it?
<Hobbsee> title of spec:  use mics in middle of room, and stream over the net
<Mithrandir> how to get people not physicall present to participate.
<Mithrandir> physically, even
<Hobbsee> ah okay.  i'd be happier not to
<Mithrandir> I can do it, then.
<Hobbsee> :)
<rob> how many people have to advocate a package in revu before its accepted?
<rob> hi btw :)
<Hobbsee> heya rob
<Hobbsee> er...one?  two?
<rob> ah ok
<rob> the waiting is killing me..
<Hobbsee> rob: find a motu, and ask them to review it - usually works better
<antinobody> hi rob
<rob> I'm too polite :)
<rob> hi antinobody
<Hobbsee> rob: that's why you ask, not bash them over the head repeatedly with demands.
<antinobody> what pacakge is this?
<rob> someone has, just not for a little bit
<rob> dolphin
<rob> I think I just have revu anxiety
<raphink> hi there
<rob> hi raphink
<raphink> hi rob
<raphink> freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob
<raphink> interesting
<rob> :)
<rob> thats me
<raphink> does that mean you're the one responsible for the ubuntu vhosts on freenode now?
<rob> well they need to still go though Seveas, but I will do them straight away rather then before where they were held in a cue to build up for a bit
<raphink> hi dholbach
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach!
<raphink> rob: good to know :)
<antinobody> Hi dholbach
<raphink> rob: are you involved in ubuntu, too?
<dholbach> heya everybody!
<raphink> hi Hobbsee & antinobody
<rob> raphink, yes
<Hobbsee> hi raphink :)
<raphink> rob: what do you do?
<antinobody> hi raphink
<dholbach> how are you all doing?
* raphink hugs everyone
<raphink> dholbach: I'm still half asleep
* Hobbsee is splatted on the ground.
<raphink> but I managed to make it to work, for some mysterious reason
<rob> raphink, I wrote the Ubuntu Desktop Guide for Breezy, and helped with the Dapper one too
<raphink> rob: great
<raphink> :)=
* antinobody is dreading starting school again on monday
<Hobbsee> antinobody: school?
<raphink> antinobody: how old are you?
<rob> but now I'm interested in getting involved with motu and doing some packaging for something different
<raphink> rob: bettr and better :)
<antinobody> raphink: 21 Hobbsee:  I'm taking summer classes
<antinobody> raphink: wait
<raphink> antinobody: in what field?
<Hobbsee> ah...
<Hobbsee> fun
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasierMotuing will make that easier hopefully
<antinobody> raphink: 20, for like, two weeks still
<raphink> hehe
<antinobody> raphink:  all of them
<raphink> antinobody: hahaha
<jsgotangco> heh
<raphink> biology, linguistics, philosophy, capentry, and so on antinobody?
<antinobody> raphink:  no, my focus is environmental engineering, but I have a second major in poli sci and a minor in political economics
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> that's nice
<antinobody> I'm also an obsessive language student, as of the start of my learning japanese, language number 3
<raphink> antinobody: yeah same here, I'm at language #12 or so :)
<raphink> not that I speak all of them fluently at all :)
<raphink> but I love to learn them :)
* antinobody bows
* antinobody in respect
<raphink> I haven't studied japanese though
<raphink> although many people do
<raphink> it's amazing how the japanese culture seems to fascinate people in Europe
<antinobody> It's interesting, I learned Spanish easily enough, but Japanese is a very different structure
<jsgotangco> hmm lag?
<raphink> yes it is
<raphink> spanish was very easy
<antinobody> I'm barely into it, and already things are getting weird
<raphink> :)
<raphink> jsgotangco: ping
<antinobody> that's why I like it, I love finding whole new ways of approaching life
<jsgotangco> we seem to have some latency here at the moment
<antinobody> I am, after all, an engineer, new perspectives are welcome
<raphink> jsgotangco: you seem to have some lag indeed
<antinobody> siempre
<jsgotangco> raphink: and asians would like to study european languages
<raphink> antinobody: yep
<jsgotangco> and even master english
<raphink> antinobody: my choice went to hebrew rather, although I don't have much time to study it lately
<raphink> it's also a very different structure and logic
<raphink> jsgotangco: you do master english :)
<raphink> from what I can see :)
<jsgotangco> im pretty much ok with american english but uk english is still alien to me
<jpatrick> Hi guys
<raphink> yes I know the feeling
<raphink> hi jpatrick
<raphink> good morning
<jpatrick> morning
<jpatrick> first day of holidays here
<antinobody> morning
<antinobody> jsgotangco that's ok, it's alien to most americans too
<jpatrick> assuming he hadn't left
<antinobody> ...
<antinobody> point taken
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: if you want to link me to that spec, or send me an email about where it is, that'd be cool :)
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I got distracted, but I'm registering, yes.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: that's cool, just letting you know taht i'd like to see it,and that i have to go to work soon
* Hobbsee turns into an icicle.
* Mithrandir gives Hobbsee a blowtorch to help her melt.
<Hobbsee> heeh thanks
<antinobody> wait...
<antinobody> if she's an icicle
<antinobody> does she want to melt?
<rob> umm, probably not?
* Hobbsee wants to be warm, yes.
* Hobbsee contemplates being hobbsee-goo all over the floor.
<Hobbsee> on that note, goodbye, i must ooze my way to work
<rob> working late?
<Mithrandir> enjoy, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: if you want to email me about that spec, as i wont be here for another while, it's hobbsee@ubuntu.com
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: willdo
<Hobbsee> rob: nah, till 10pm, supposedly
* Hobbsee might just have to order her boss around a bit to get out on time.
<Hobbsee> will do
<rob> I used to work 12 hour shifts at night, it sucked
<Hobbsee> ewww...
<rob> 6 pm -> 6am
<Hobbsee> yeah, ick
<rob> then drive home, sometimes I'd be in my driveway wondering how the heck I got there
<Hobbsee> i like nights - none of the idiot supervisors are there, and we have good ones.
<rob> scary stuff
<Hobbsee> very
<rob> I must admit though, playing xbox games for 12 hours straight and getting paid for it is great :)
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<jsgotangco> now that's neat
<jsgotangco> you can say you've been a professional gamer then
<rob> hehe yeah, never thought of it like that :)
<jsgotangco> hmmm i only have 2 specs today
<antinobody> it took me many an hour, but I managed to sign the damned code of conduct
<zakame> hi
<antinobody> hello zakame
<zakame> heya antinobody
<Gloubiboulga> hello MOTU world
<TheMuso> Hey Gloubiboulga.
<TheMuso> Thanks for your review work BTW.
<Gloubiboulga> TheMuso: hi, thanks for your work :)
<TheMuso> np
<antinobody> hello Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hi antinobody
<jmg> ian jackson anywhere?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jmg> nick?
<jsgotangco> iwj
<jsgotangco> he's probably busy in a bof session at the moment though
<jmg> thanks
<jmg> yes
<jmg> Specification changed by Ian Jackson:
<jmg>     Definition Status: Drafting => Review
<jmg> i cant attend the bof
<jmg> is there a paris irc channel?
<TheMuso> Not as far as I know.
<jmg> heh
<jmg> theres nothing to do with a review in the schedule for today
<jmg> hmm
<TheMuso> wHAT IS THE QUICKEST WAY TO GET A PACKAGE UPDATED IN uNIVERSE FOR EDGY FOR A NON-motu? rE-UPLOAD TO REVU, OR FILE A BUG WITH A DEBDIFF?
<zakame> TheMuso: erm
<zakame> which pkg?
<rob> ?
<TheMuso> GNOME-ORCA
<zakame> Caps got stuck? :)
<TheMuso> argh sorry
<TheMuso> I originally filed a UVF for it, but a newer version has come out since the UVF filing.
<zakame> hmm I gather edgy now hasd a sane build chain enough for dchrooting, right?
<TheMuso> I don't know.
<zakame> TheMuso: hmm I suppose you can still follow UVF policy and file a bug w/debdiff... but since you said you've filed an UVF bug already, I guess you should follow-up on that one
<TheMuso> Thats what I was thinking. Thanks.
<zakame> maybe even bumping importance, if you think it deserves that
<TheMuso> hmmm
<TheMuso> Well the a11y team hope to get this into main in this release, so I might just do that. :)
<zakame> coolness
<mejobloggs> hello guys
<ajmitch> hi
<mejobloggs> could bzflag please be updated to 2.0.8 ?
<jmg> mejobloggs: report a bug
<mejobloggs> howso?
<jmg> mejobloggs: reportbug or launchpad.net
<jmg> !tell mejobloggs about bugs
<mejobloggs> yeah, tell me about them
<mejobloggs> why did nothing tell me?
<jmg> ubotu isnt here
<mejobloggs> oh
<mejobloggs> its not exaclyt a bug is it?
<mejobloggs> the bug is 'ubuntu doesnt have the latest version of bzflag'
<mejobloggs> hardly a bug
<ajmitch> mejobloggs: specifically, what you want is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportsHowto
<ajmitch> we don't have the latest version in edgy, but it will be there soon
<mejobloggs> ok, i can't seem to be able to assign it to anyone
<ajmitch> subscribe, not assign
<mejobloggs> i am meant to assign it to 'ubuntu-backporters'
<mejobloggs> oh..
<mejobloggs> hmm, no idea how to do that
<mejobloggs> the howto isnt very helpful
<ajmitch> on the left hand side
<mejobloggs> ahh, cheers
<TheMuso> How does one update the importance of a bug in lp?
<ajmitch> where did you file the bug against?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: you need to be in ubuntu-qa for that now
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<TheMuso> nvm then
<ajmitch> unfortunate, but it does stop people filing their bugs as being ultra-critical-must-fix-now
<TheMuso> Wow! No more source packages has been approved.
<ajmitch> good
<ajmitch> I'm looking forward to that bzr plugin
* Mithrandir reminds ajmitch of some bzr branches.
<TheMuso> It should certainly be a better way of working.
<ajmitch> lifeless & keybuk have probably got most of it done already
<TheMuso> As long as there are good docs to cover it.
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: yes sir :)
<ajmitch> hi daniel
<dholbach> hey andrew
* ajmitch needs to go & sleep now, night all
<tseng> hi dholbach
<tseng> see you tommorow!
<tseng> are you ready?
<dholbach> tseng: absolutely :)
* dholbach hugs tseng
* tseng hugs dholbach 
<seaLne> can someone remind me what current standards version is and how i check what it is? sorry i can never remember
<seaLne> still 3.6.2 in ubuntu?
<siretart> seaLne: use $(apt-cache show debian-policy | grep Version) on a recent edgy system
<siretart> seaLne: short 3.7.2 should do fine in edgy
<seaLne> hmm i get 2 versions?
<seaLne> so i can ignore that error in linda
<seaLne> thanks
<siretart> seaLne: you get 2 version because you have both edgy and dapper enabled in /e/a/sources.list, I assume
<siretart> whee, mldonkey got a new maintainer in debian..
<seaLne> siretart: ah correct
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<raphink> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey raphink
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> are missing dependancies a bug?
<raphink> yes Kamping_Kaiser
<raphink> they cause FTBFS
<raphink> re Tonio_
<Kamping_Kaiser> raphink, oh, *goes to check for a bug*
<Tonio_> re raphink
<raphink> a va Tonio_?
<Tonio_> waip ca roule des poules :)
<Tonio_> je suis plus a l'aise avec mon pouce ;)
<raphink> Tonio_: hehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> there was an existing bug - from breezy :/
<Kamping_Kaiser> bug 33721
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 33721 in freeciv "freeciv-client-xaw3d: sound and fonts missing" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33721
<raphink> not that old a bug Kamping_Kaiser
<raphink> its' 2 months and a half old
<Kamping_Kaiser> raphink, well i just bumped it ;). i was refereing more to the problem not having been fixed in dapper, then how long it was made. but supose everything cant be fixed ;(
<raphink> indeed
<raphink> did you see if there's a new verison in debian maybe?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i didnt look. i'll do so now
<raphink> ok
<Kamping_Kaiser> should i search unstalbe or experimental?
* Kamping_Kaiser does both
<raphink> unstable
<raphink> only
<Kamping_Kaiser> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/games/freeciv-client-gtk 'sugests freeciv-sound, package not available'
<Kamping_Kaiser> :/
<raphink> in debian ?
<raphink> the freeciv-sound package is not in debian either?
<Kamping_Kaiser> no its not.
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders how to apply the sounds tar on the freeciv site
<raphink> ah right this bug is from debian
<raphink> how about talking to the freeciv maintainer in debian?
<Kamping_Kaiser> where should i look for him/her? in the changelog?
<Kamping_Kaiser> found him on LP
<monzie> hi all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<monzie> hi Kamping_Kaiser..
* monzie is happy
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<monzie> i want to put a package into Dapper Drake..
<monzie> and i have RTFM'ed
<monzie> the product that  i want to put in is VTK Designer
<dsas> monzie: I'm pretty sure it's too late for that. You're better off targeting Edgy
<monzie> http://www.vcreatelogic.com/oss/vtkdesigner/index.html
<monzie> when is it due?
<imbrandon> octoberish
<imbrandon> moins Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
<monzie> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi monzie
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee, imbrandon.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso\
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
<monzie> I'm trying to put http://www.vcreatelogic.com/oss/vtkdesigner/index.html (VTK designer) into REVU
<monzie> it uses CMake.. is that ok?
<zul> sure
<imbrandon> long as its debianized ;)
<TheMuso> You just need to make sure that the Makefile doesn't put things in odd places.
<monzie> how do i debianize it imbrandon?
<TheMuso> You just need to make sure that the Makefile doesn't put things in odd places.
<TheMuso> dh_make
<imbrandon> dh_make
<imbrandon> follow the packageing guide
<imbrandon> etc
<monzie> so cmake is acceptable to you..
<\sh> hmmm.are there any freenx packages for ubuntu available?
<imbrandon> \sh, a few months ago when i tried it i couldent find any ( dosent mean there isnt any )
<imbrandon> \sh,  looks liek there are some here : deb http://kanotix.com/files/debian/ ./
<Toadstool> could a reviewer ask the guy to upload the updated version of dolphin on REVU? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2471)
<imbrandon> \sh, http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1968
<\sh> imbrandon: forum doc doesn't work anymore...
<Hobbsee> rob: ping
<imbrandon> forum doc ?
<Kyral> Morning all
<imbrandon> moins Kyral
<Hobbsee> hi Kyral
<Hobbsee> Kyral: brain come back?
<Kyral> Hobbsee: go to bed ;P
<imbrandon> ouch
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> no :P
<Kyral> Yes!
* Hobbsee didnt get home from work that long ago!
<Kyral> Its gotta be around midnight there :P
<Hobbsee> 11pm
<Kyral> nevermidn them
<Hobbsee> besides, why would you want me to go to bed?
<Kyral> I thought it was like 1 AM there :P
<Hobbsee> no
* Hobbsee usually goes to bed at around 2am anyway.
<Kyral> and BTW, brain still booting up ;P
<Hobbsee> oh dear.
<Kyral> Ah well, Payday == Today
<Hobbsee> yay!
<neenaoffline> could someone please  compile SLIM ?
<neenaoffline> Can someone compile SLIM for me
<neenaoffline> http://slim.berlios.de/
<neenaoffline> ping?
<neenaoffline> huh??
<azeem> neenaoffline: this is not a compile service
<neenaoffline> azeem: I was just asking , someone at #xubuntu said I could request the guys here to put slim on the universe
<Toadstool> neenaoffline: I think i'm going to package, it's a nice piece of software
<Toadstool> +it
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: thanks !!
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: how long will it take you ? :)
<Toadstool> neenaoffline: i have some stuff to finish before that but the package will be on REVU tonight or tomorrow I think
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: thanks :)
<TheMuso> Ok folks. If you need to talk to me about anything to do with my submitted specs or accessibility in general? Now is the time. I will be at at the table that has been known as Kenrik's table for the net 15-20 minutes if you want to catch me before I get ready to leave.
<TheMuso> Ok folks. I'm outa here. Nice to meet you all.
<Hobbsee> bye TheMuso - or hello, take your pick
<jrib> If I am building a package to put up on revu should I change my pbuilder to edgy?
<zul> yes
<jrib> zul: thanks
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<Toadstool> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> salut Toadstool
<duck-> perhaps someone here would know, are there any instructions anywhere for customizing the ubuntu installation CD for OEM, including but not limited to the addition of new packages?
<zul> have you checked the wiki
<duck-> i've seen one for 5.10
<duck-> perhaps i missed a newer one
<cap10morgan> In a source package, in debian/rules, what is the proper target to install a udev .rules file in?
<cap10morgan> Is it OK to do that in binary-arch?
<fbond|away> I would do it in the install target
<fbond|away> But, often, the upstream Makefile does that sort of thing...
<cap10morgan> fbond|away: well, i'm trying to get the synaptics X driver package to create an intelligent udev rule so the eventX device node won't jump around on every reboot
<cap10morgan> am i barking up the right tree? :)
<fbond|away> cap10morgan: can't offer much advice here, as I don't know much about that
<nexu> can anyone tell me how to deal with when trying to build a deb and one of the build dependency depends on itself?
<Gloubiboulga> nexu, if you find a solution you'll make the world better
<Gloubiboulga> I don't know if it's possible without a manual intervention
<nexu> :/
<nexu> why would people even make packages who depends on themself?
<nexu> whats the point
<nexu> so how should i go to do a manual intervention ?
<Gloubiboulga> nexu, by creating a chroot without pbuilder I guess
<Gloubiboulga> I guess the package is a new version, and depends on an old version, right?
<nexu> this is with libboost-filesystem
<Gloubiboulga> do you try to rebuild the package or to update it?
<nexu> Gloubiboulga: import
<nexu> Gloubiboulga: its not packaged at all what i'm trying to build
<Gloubiboulga> ok... I've never tried that, but I guess you'll need to apt-get install the version in the repositories before building the one you want
<nexu> you mean on my working system ?
<nexu> or for the chroot ?
<Gloubiboulga> nexu, I think I don't understand what you actually want to do (might be a little tired ;)
<nexu> ok basically, i 'm packaging a program that need libboost-filesystem
<nexu> so i added the -dev to its builddepend
<nexu> but pbuilder tells me during dependency checking:
<nexu>  -> Considering  libboost-filesystem-dev
<nexu>    -> Trying libboost-filesystem-dev
<nexu>        -> Cannot install libboost-filesystem-dev; apt errors follow:
<nexu> so i checked for libboost-filesystem-dev depend
<nexu> Replaces: libboost-dev (<< 1.31.0-1)
<nexu> Depends: libboost-dev (= 1.33.1-2), libboost-filesystem1.33.1 (= 1.33.1-2)
<nexu> anyway
<nexu> this is my first time trying to do this
<Gloubiboulga> that looks normal
<nexu> i know how to compile by hand
<Gloubiboulga> what's the exact apt error?
<nexu> Package libboost-filesystem-dev is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<nexu> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<nexu> is only available from another source
<nexu> erez: Package libboost-filesystem-dev has no installation candidate
<Gloubiboulga> it works fine here, have you updated your pbuilder ?
<nexu> 'sudo pbuilder update' that?
<Gloubiboulga> yzq
<Gloubiboulga> yes*
<nexu> yeah
<Gloubiboulga> hmm
<Gloubiboulga> Have you built other packages with your pbuilder without any problem?
<nexu> erm negative
<nexu> this is first time i was trying
<nexu> actually
<nexu> it did passed the depend before
<nexu> but than the ./configure couldnt find the needed filed
<nexu> files
<nexu> because i didnt added the proper libboost -dev
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<Gloubiboulga> is it a edgy pbuilder?
<nexu> no
<nexu> dapper
<Gloubiboulga> could you upload the source package somewhere, I can try here
<zul> hey
<ajmitch> hi
<zul> miss me?  :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> sure
<zul> liar
<ajmitch> heh
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-24
* rob looks
<rob> oh, shes gone..
<ajmitch> she?
<_ion> She's really a he.
<ajmitch> right
<fbond|away> hmm
<jmg> what does "assignee" mean in specs?
<jmg> is that the person assigned to do the work?
<zul> i believe so
<jmg> i thought paris was only talking about specs that had the author in attendance
<linuxmonkey> paris is talking about any specs that matter to my knowledge
<jmg> grr
<jmg> i should have applied for sponsorship
<jmg> my specs been hijacked and assigned to someone else
<zul> oh well
<jmg> meh
<Hobbsee> morning all
<ajmitch> afternoon
<Mithrandir> hi Hobbsee
<Mithrandir> also hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> not quite noon here yet :P
<Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir, how are you diong?
<Mithrandir> slightly tipsy, blogging about my day before going to bed.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Mithrandir> also trying to find if Karianne has sent me any mails or not.
<ajmitch> hello Mithrandir
<Hobbsee> the blog is at?
<Mithrandir> http://err.no/personal/blog
<Mithrandir> that's the "everything I feel like blogging about" blog
<Mithrandir> it has some categories which are put onto planets and suchs
<Mithrandir> -s
<Mithrandir> but not all of it
<Hawkwind> Hey there Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi Hawkwind
<Mithrandir> zleeep
<zul> and sober up
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: I made the leap to Kubuntu as my main OS today :)
<Hobbsee> Hawkwind: yay!
<Hawkwind> I'm still trying to get everything setup from the old OS
<Hobbsee> nice :)
<Hawkwind> But having issues :(
<Hawkwind> I can't seem to bring up a GUI editor for something like /etc/ssh/sshd_config
<Hawkwind> I've tried kwrite, gedit and others, and it tells me it can't connect to the X server
<Hobbsee> ouch
<antinobody> hey folks
<Hobbsee> hi antinobody
<antinobody> Hey Hobbsee
<antinobody> it only took me like three hours to sign the code of conduct
<antinobody> You don't happen to know how to get a pgp-key from one computer onto another?
<linuxmonkey> copy your .gnupg folder
<Hobbsee> copy the /.gnupg folder across
<Hobbsee> ~/.gnupg, that is
<linuxmonkey> wassup Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> not a lot, thinking about breakfast
<zul> right im off to bed..
<antinobody> hello and goodnight zul
<antinobody> gracas Hobbsee
<antinobody> y linuxmonkey
<rob> Hobbsee, pong
<Hobbsee> rob: back where i pinged you, Toadstool was asking something about dolphin.  thought it might have related to you.
<rob> oh, probably :)
<rob> what did he want?
<Hobbsee> i think it was something about uploading a new version?
<rob> oh, I appear to have uploaded the wrong package to revu
<rob> fixing now
<rob> must have been day dreaming when I uploaded that
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Toadstool> re
<Toadstool> rob: hi :)
<rob> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> and hi Hobbsee too
<Hobbsee> hey Toadstool
<Toadstool> rob: did you upload the latest version of your package?
<rob> uploading now
<rob> oh,
<rob> Uploading via ftp dolphin_0.5.1-0ubuntu1.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of dolphin_0.5.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<rob> someone will have to remove that first
<Toadstool> hmm... you can force a new version with a particular command line switch iirc
<Toadstool> like -f :)
<rob> I thought that was -f, which I'm using
<Toadstool> ok...
<rob> but still get that error
<Hobbsee> ask an admin to fix it?
<Toadstool> yep
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: likes fixing such things
<rob> umm yeah :)
<Toadstool> ping siretart or ajmitch ;)
* ajmitch sighs
<rob> ^
<ajmitch> what now?
<Hobbsee> hehe
<rob> can you please delete dolphin_0.5.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
* Toadstool hugs ajmitch 
<ajmitch> people who break uploads...
* rob runs
<Hobbsee> i thought that was my job!
<Hobbsee> breaking things.
<ajmitch> fixed now
<rob> thank you ajmitch :)
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: we all know you can break things but you're far better at getting new stuff in universe afaik ;)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> new stuff?  no
* Hobbsee had a package.  then someone else packaged it and stole it.
<Toadstool> heh
* Hobbsee couldnt make it work, but even so.
<rob> didn't do a debian RFC/ITP?
<rob> ah
<rob> s/RFC/RFP
<rob> Toadstool, its uploaded now, might take a few minutes to appear in revu though
<Toadstool> yep, thanks ;)
<Toadstool> ok, looks like it didn't take that much time
<rob> are you going to review it?
<Toadstool> yep
<rob> nice :)
<Toadstool> rob: I don't think this is a Debian native package... could you please upload it with dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa?
<rob> oh, debuild/pbuild no good?
<Toadstool> nope
<rob> hmm, I'm sure that was what is in the Ubuntu packaging guide
<rob> but ok
<Toadstool> you need to have the upstream tarball in the root directory
<Toadstool> following the package_version.orig.tar.gz scheme
<rob> so this is right?: dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -k'Robert Stoffers' && sudo pbuilder-dapper build ../*.dsc
<Toadstool> yeah but forget about the pbuilder stuff (for the moment) and copy the source tarball (using the package_version.orig.tar.gz scheme) in your source directory first
<Toadstool> rob: in debian/control description also please forget the dot at the end of the first line and use the latest debian policy version (which is 3.7.2.1 now)
<rob> wow that changes quick
<Toadstool> :)
<ajmitch> Toadstool: 3.7.2 is sufficient
<Toadstool> ajmitch: well, for NEW packages, I think that the latest policy is the best choice :)
<ajmitch> the 4th digit is for minor changes only, not policy changes
<ajmitch> so you only ever need the 1st 3 digits
<Toadstool> I know that this is only typo changes
<Hobbsee> rob: you can do the building and testing etc in the pbuilder, then run it thru dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa at the end, if you like - tha'ts what i do
<rob> hmm
* Hobbsee has an edgybuild, dapperbuild, and revubuild script :_
<Hobbsee> * :)
<Hobbsee> it works.
<Gloubiboulga> hello MOTU World
<rob> hi Gloubiboulga
<Toadstool> hi Gloubiboulga
<antinobody> hello Gloubiboulba
<antinobody> hello Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hi rob, hi antinobody
<Hobbsee> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> Toadstool, already awake, or not yet gone to bed ? :)
<Toadstool> Gloubiboulga: wow...this is really early :)
<Toadstool> not yet gone to bed
<Gloubiboulga> hey Hobbsee :)
<Toadstool> working on SLiM ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe, fun
<Gloubiboulga> Toadstool, I guess you've triage bugs during the night :p
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: where are you?
<Gloubiboulga> triaged*
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: France :)
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: ah. is that where you usually live, or you're just there for the conference?
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: I'm French but about to leave and work in California for a year
<Hobbsee> nice!
<Toadstool> indeed :)
<rob> ok, uploading again
<Toadstool> cool rob
<rob> ok done
<rob> it didn't appear to upload the orig.tar.gz though, should it?
<Gloubiboulga> if you upload on REVU the .orig should be there
<Toadstool> +1
<rob> ok, maybe it just didn't say it
<Toadstool> pdebuild doesn't add the orig.tar.gz file by default
<Toadstool> (I once had the same problem :))
<rob> ok its appeared now (the orig.tar.gz is listed on the revu page
<rob> is that sufficient, or am I missing something?
<Toadstool> I must be missing something 'cause I don't have the upstream tarball...
<rob> the orig.tar.gz is in the same directory as the tar.gz from upstream and the source. files and .dsc file, is that correct?
<Toadstool> rob: yep, you're right
<Hobbsee> rob: did you get a .diff.gz file too?
<rob> yes
<Gloubiboulga> I think you should have a MOTU school session about "how do I create a source package" :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Toadstool> :)
<Hobbsee> yeah, we need some more of them - they're useful.
<ajmitch> Gloubiboulga: you can run it
<Toadstool> yep
<Gloubiboulga> ajmitch, yes :)
<rob> what is the difference between .orig.tar.gz and the upstream .tar.gz other the the file name?
<Toadstool> the file name ;)
<rob> so why have both?
* Hobbsee notes that the .diff.gz is not uploaded either.  is it named correctly?
<rob> dolphin_0.5.2-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<ajmitch> Gloubiboulga: just set a time & date, write up something & do it
<rob> sigh, I'm not seeing any other packages in revu that have the tar.gz listed, just the orig.tar.gz (which mine is)
<rob> woah, what happen there (just reloaded the page)?
<Gloubiboulga> ajmitch, I will, I just have to find when the best time & date are ;)
<Gloubiboulga> bbiab
<Toadstool> Gloubiboulga: "the best time & date are" <-- as soon as possible? :)
* Toadstool hides
<Toadstool> anyone who wants to review slim? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2491)
<Toadstool> :)
<rob> ok, I'm not sure what happen with that last upload to revu, but this one should be better (uploading now)
<nexu> Gloubiboulga: lol sorry for not getting back to you
<nexu> Gloubiboulga: i wanted to learn how to make a package myself so i went to searching how to fix it
<nexu> Gloubiboulga: i fixed it eventually
<nictuku> hi
<nictuku> if a user reported a problem in a wrong package, can I just change that?
<Toadstool> 6am...time to go to bed I suppose :)
<Toadstool> g'night everybody
<nexu> haha
<nexu> same here
<Hobbsee> nictuku: yep
<Hobbsee> nictuku: just reassign it to the correct source package - you certainly used to be able to do that
<nictuku> ok. #50815 phpldapadmin -> php4 - for php4-ldap
<nictuku> php4-ldap is in php4, right?
<nictuku> checked with apt-cache show php4-ldap |grep Source
* Hobbsee wouldnt have the foggiest clue
<Hobbsee> looks to be in php4, yep
<Hobbsee> bug 50815
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50815 in php4 "doesn't work with apache2, i.e. http://localhost/phpldapadmin fails" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50815
* antinobody never has the foggiest clue, and appreciates the company
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> upgrading this amd4 server to dapper and the lvm2 package is broken
<Hobbsee> nictuku: ah hang on.  is it a phpldapadmin bug, or a php4-ldap bug?
<chillywilly> amd64
<nictuku> Hobbsee, reported as phpldapadmin, but it *would* be a bug in php4-ldap
<nictuku> works for me, anyway
<bockman> crimsun, any luck with that openvpn bug? (bug #45827)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45827 in openvpn "openvpn old security problems (Breezy)" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45827
<chillywilly> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/lvm2_2.02.02-1ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
<chillywilly> subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 10
<Hobbsee> nictuku: the binary package hint is wrong, but it's listed in the right source location
<nictuku> Hobbsee, it is because i fixed it
<Hobbsee> ah
<nictuku> Hobbsee, it was listed in phpldapadmin
<nictuku> :-)
<Hobbsee> right - didnt realise you'd changed it :P
<bluefoxicy> mmm.
<rob> hmm
<chillywilly> well I just commented out the preinst script ;P
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  anything interesting going on in Ubuntu?  :)
<rob> I'm not sure that its me stuffing this up, I think revu might be doing something funky
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  (good articles are selling for $150, maybe I can make some money...)
<rob> its listing an old version, 0.5.1, but I'm uploading 0.5.2
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: sure, a conference ending.
<bluefoxicy> conference?
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: developers conference, in paris
<Hobbsee> it ended last night paris time, i believe
<bluefoxicy> ah
<antinobody> Last...oh, right, it's Saturday where you are
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  no new revolutionary features in Edgy?  Major security improvements (I just may write about stack protection if it goes into full mode, or if I can get an official statement...), major performance boosts (too bad we can't use direct linking)?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: it's about 6am in paris too, so it was last night there too
<antinobody> Right, but it's about 9pm Friday here, and that's what I meant
<antinobody> I should learn how to merge...
<antinobody> Does anyone know what determines what Debian package we'll move to for Edgy?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: the one in debian unstable, and we have to check if none of the ubuntu patches are still needed
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: i wouldnt know - but the specs on launchpad would - they should be mostly filled in now.
<bluefoxicy> cool.
<antinobody> Hobbsee:  right, that makes sense.  I'll go practice now, who should I talk to when I've gotten the hang of it, who will have use of me
<antinobody> ?
<rob> here's my output when uploading: http://www.mypastebin.com/?code=1062691471
<Hobbsee> antinobody: hmmm..  any of the MOTU's, i believe. i'm not sure how they're marking a package being done or not - kde has a list of items and whether they've been synced or not
<rob> I'm thinking revu is rejecting it somehow
<ajmitch> rob: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2493
<ajmitch> it's not - the id changes for each upload
<rob> ok
* Hobbsee just uploads *.changes from that directory, which seems to pick up all the files they want.
<antinobody> Hobbsee:  Where might one find this list?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEdgyPackageUpdates
<rob> is everything there now?
<Hobbsee> but there's going to be a whole long universe one too - and most MOTU's wont upload kde stuff
<Hobbsee> rob: looks like it to me
<rob> thank god, thought I was going nuts then
<rob> the only errors I'm getting is saying that edgy is a bad distribution and standards-version 3.7.2.1 is too new, is this ok to ignore?
<ajmitch> yes
<rob> ok, thanks ajmitch
<rob> hopefully I haven't missed anything now
<antinobody> Hobbsee:  gracas otra vez
<Hobbsee> antinobody: what are the last two words?
<antinobody> otra vez manys another time, but it's the Spanish equivalent of "again"
<antinobody> many --> means
<antinobody> Lo siento
<Hobbsee> ah
<Hobbsee> i see :)
<antinobody> I need to be more creative though, next time you help me, I'll come up with something overly flowering to say to in thanks
<Hobbsee> hehe
<antinobody> like gracas chica que sabe todo
<Hobbsee> antinobody: then i'd have to go to mighty babelfish :P
<antinobody> Hobbsee:  Well, I mean, you could just ASK what I said, but babelfish is an option
<antinobody> albeit, not the best option in the world
<Hobbsee> antinobody: that is true.  that's hwat i usually do
<antinobody> did you figure out what the last one what?
<antinobody> err was?
<antinobody> I need to stop typoing
<Hobbsee> nope
<raphink> you could also learn spanish
<antinobody> he's right, it's not that hard
<raphink> it's a language that is spoken worldwide
<raphink> and always useful to know
<antinobody> although raphink had the advantage of a latin-based first language
<raphink> Hobbsee: antinobody said "thank you girl who knows everything"
<Hobbsee> ah :)
<raphink> antinobody: that's right, but I didn't only learn latin languages afterwards ;)
<Hobbsee> gracas small that knows everything was the babelfish translation
* Hobbsee only knows english and some german :(
<antinobody> small?
<raphink> proof is I know english ;)
<antinobody> true
<raphink> small?
<raphink> chica means girl
<antinobody> yeah it does, it sure as hell doesn't mean small...
<raphink> small is pequena
<antinobody> or poco
<Hobbsee> well that's what i thought, as a chick is a girl, so...
<raphink> in that case
<antinobody> well, that's little, to be precise
<raphink> antinobody: poco is few/little
<raphink> Hobbsee: well thought
<raphink> Hobbsee: but although a chick is a maid, a chicken is not a maiden
<raphink> :p
<Hobbsee> hehe
<antinobody> clever
<raphink> or I totally misunderstand english ;)
<raphink> pom pom pom
<Hobbsee> well, a maid is someone who cleans things, it doesnt only just refer to a female or a woman
<raphink> ah
<antinobody> Ok, new question.  What does one do if, when merging, the dapper version is say 3 (as in the xcdroast example), but the debian archives only have say 3.1
<antinobody> to be precise 3ubuntu1
<raphink> ...
<raphink> can't be
<antinobody> yea, maid in reference to a woman has actually fallen out of use
<antinobody> but tis
<raphink> debian version can't be 3ubuntu1
<antinobody> ...no that's the dapper
<antinobody> the debian is 3.1
<Gloubiboulga> "debian archives only have say 3.1" raphink ;)
<raphink> unless you mean ubuntu version = 3ubuntu1
<raphink> and debian = 3.1
<raphink> right?
<antinobody> s
<raphink> Gloubiboulga: ah toi aussi t lev  ctheure l?
<Gloubiboulga> raphink, si senior
<raphink> antinobody: then it depends if the changes made in 3ubuntu1 from 3 have to be applied to 3.1 again
<raphink> if it's the case, then you merge into 3.1ubuntu1
<raphink> otherwise you request a sync of 3.1, if 3.1 builds fine in edgy without a change
<raphink> Gloubiboulga: porque?
<Gloubiboulga> raphink, 'cause my girlfriend starts working  7h
<raphink> ah right
<raphink> good reason
<Gloubiboulga> :)
* raphink hopes to go to the mountains this morning
<raphink> for a hike
<antinobody> The edgy version should actually be 7 or 7ubuntu1
<antinobody> the DAPPER was 3ubuntu1
<antinobody> and the closest debian to that is 3.1
<antinobody> me entiendes?
<raphink> .....
<raphink> what is the CURRENT debian version?
<raphink> in sid
<antinobody> 7
<raphink> ah rioght
<raphink> right
<raphink> then you have to either merge into 7ubuntu1
<raphink> or request a sync if the merge is not necessary
<antinobody> right...
<antinobody> at the moment, I'm following the little example from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
<raphink> mhm
<antinobody> and I'm at the stage where I debdiff the old ubuntu and debian versions
<polpak> Does anyone know when the fixed version of qgo will be put in the repo? right now it just segfaults
<polpak> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/qgo/+bug/4048
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 4048 in qgo "[Dapper]  qgo segmentation fault" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> polpak: when you provide it for example :)
<polpak> upstream fixed the issue
<antinobody> Does it not matter that the original debian version used for the old ubuntu isn't there?
<raphink> ok then the package needs to be upgraded
<raphink> antinobody: why would it matter?
<antinobody> no s...
<raphink> antinobody: we want to stay as close to Debian as possible
<raphink> for how long as possible
<raphink> for many reason
<raphink> reasons
<raphink> mostly because this way we don't have to maintain most packages in Universe while not having enough manpower for that
<Gloubiboulga> polpak, the new release will certainly go into edgy, and a backport might be possible then
<raphink> so we can concentrate on the improvements we want to add in ubuntu
<antinobody> I know, but I like to be thorough when learning something new
<antinobody> so I ask many unnecessary questions
<polpak> Gloubiboulga: ergh.. even though it's just a bugfix? right now qgo is competly useless
<antinobody> so later on, there are less mistakes
<raphink> antinobody: not unecessary if they make sense to you
<antinobody> precisely
<Gloubiboulga> polpak, I understand, but for the moment we can't do more I guess
<polpak> Gloubiboulga: I thought that bug fixes were being released for the current version?
<Gloubiboulga> polpak, a few bug fixes go to dapper-updates, but most of them are done in the current development release (e.g. egdy now)
<Gloubiboulga> I don't even know if universe packages can be fixed in dapper-update, can they?
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: if they're really broken, i think they can
<polpak> well it's really broken if that helps.. ;p
<polpak> just segfaults
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, a segfault hehe
<polpak> If not.. this means I am going to have to actually write that python GO client I've been trying to avoid
* Hobbsee thinks there's some exception thingo for that.  surely the bugfix for dapper will need to go into edgy as well?
<polpak> cause I can't go for 6 months w/o playing GO. ;p
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Gloubiboulga> well, it looks like a new release is in edgy already
<polpak> Gloubiboulga: does it actually run ?
<Gloubiboulga> hmm, actually no, still the same version than in dapper
<polpak> Gloubiboulga: I think the maintainer fixed it in the CVS version, but wanted help from the ubuntu package maintainer to test it
<polpak> at least thats what the notes say on the bug
<Gloubiboulga> ok, I was right, 1.5 is in edgy, I'm installing it to test
<polpak> Gloubiboulga: I can teach you to play if you want.. ;p
<Gloubiboulga> hehe :)
<Gloubiboulga> it still segfaults...
<polpak> ah.. then the fix is still just in CVS
<Gloubiboulga> I guess
<polpak> ergh
<polpak> guess I'm going to have to actually work for it then
<Gloubiboulga> brb
<antinobody> raphink or Hobbsee:  What would I do if the ubuntu version for dapper was higher than the debian unstable versions at present?  (i.e. katapult)
<antinobody> when merging...
<Gloubiboulga> antinobody, nothing
<antinobody> then why is it on the KubuntuEdgyPackageUpdates list?  Is it taken care of in some other way?
<Gloubiboulga> I don't know, I'm not a K guy, but I guess there's nothing to do about it
<antinobody> Well, I'm just picking random packages to try and practice with.  I'm not actually going to upload any of this, I'm just learning how to merge, so I'm of some use as we start merging
<Hobbsee> antinobody: you should probably assign that to Mez, as hes' one of the upstream maintainers of that
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee thumps StevenK 
<Hobbsee> hello, you
<StevenK> Ow!
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> you'll survive :P
<StevenK> I might not. :-P
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> StevenK is here
<Hobbsee> that he is.  EVERYBODY RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<ajmitch> & Hobbsee is being violent again
<Hobbsee> raphink clearly did :P
<StevenK> If it's that bad, I can /quit
<Hobbsee> me?  violent?  nah.
* StevenK gars at his CSS.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: when are we meeting up with you?
<StevenK> When would you like to?
<antinobody> Hobbsee:  assign?  I'm just looking for things to practice on, I'll let other people do this "assigning" business until I know what i'm doing
<Hobbsee> antinobody: ah okay.  well, two of katapult's writers are kubuntu devs, so that kinda makes it a special case
<antinobody> I see
<Hobbsee> StevenK: 5/7 sound good?  it's a wednesday
<StevenK> Wednesday's are out, as are Tuesdays.
<Hobbsee> thursday good?
<Hobbsee> i had a vague memory that that was the case...
* StevenK nods
* Hobbsee wonders why it's so quiet everywhere.  guess everyone's travelling home today.
* antinobody wonder's what Hobbsee means by "everywhere"
* antinobody does so mostly because he's a generally curious person
<dsas> antinobody: Obviously everywhere means the #ubuntu-* channels. Nowhere else exists.
<antinobody> dsas point taken, although #ubuntu seems to be no less active then usual.  #kubuntu as well
<dsas> antinobody: That's a given, besides they don't match the pattern above :p
<antinobody> ahh true enough
<antinobody> #ubuntu-pdx is a lonely place.  I seem to be the only portlander ever on irc
<Hobbsee> antinobody: i meant #*ubuntu-dev and -motu in particular
<antinobody> ahh
<antinobody> Hobbsee sorry I missed that last message for so long, I had to go lie on the grass and stare at the sky for a bit
<Hobbsee> hehe fun :)
<antinobody> tis a necessary part of the night
<Hobbsee> sounds good to me.  unless it's wet.
<antinobody> My last name is Rains, and I live in Oregon, "wet" is almost as natural a fact of life as "crazy" to me
<Hobbsee> heh
<antinobody> Although, I usually walk if it's raining, rather than lie down
<YumPoo> i come for the he-man fanclub
<antinobody> YumPoo talk to Hobbsee, she's the president after all
<antinobody> wait he-man the character
<antinobody> my bad
<YumPoo> hobbsee, my favourite he-man character is manyfaces
<antinobody> I was thinking the he-man-woman-haters-club from LIttle Rascals
<antinobody> my bad
<YumPoo> is there anyone here that can kick my ass off this channel please?
<Hobbsee> YumPoo: sure.  why do you want to?
<YumPoo> because i tend to get out of hand
<antinobody> That is an odd request
<dsas> (fyi yumpoo has been kicked from #ubuntu and offtopic within the last hour)
<YumPoo> yes
<YumPoo> that is correct
<Hobbsee> dsas: ah right
<antinobody> How the hell'd'ya get kicked from offtopic?
<YumPoo> thank you for keeping track, but there are about 5 other channels that kicke me
<YumPoo> very easily
<YumPoo> i went *WAAAAAAY* offtopic
<Hobbsee> wow
<antinobody> How way is *WAAAAAY*?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Mithrandir]  by ChanServ
<YumPoo> i wish i knew what i said.....dsas, my dear sir, can you refresh my memory ?
<Mithrandir> YumPoo: was it a request to be kicked immediately or should I wait a little?
<YumPoo> mithrandir, be prepared to use your itchy kicky finger
<YumPoo> that's up to you
<YumPoo> i would like to deserve it tho
<dsas> YumPoo: I can't remember.
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: another op war hey?
<Hobbsee> i thought they were reserved for u-o
<YumPoo> hobbsee...en guarde
<YumPoo> lets see who can kick my ass off the quickest
<YumPoo> okay
<YumPoo> 3
<YumPoo> 2
<YumPoo> 1
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: like I don't hit women, I don't kick them either, so you'd win.
<YumPoo> go!!!
* YumPoo was kicked off #ubuntu-motu by Mithrandir (Mithrandir)
<YumPoo> congrats
<Hobbsee> ban too?
<YumPoo> you win senor mithrand
<YumPoo> yes please
<YumPoo> 3
<YumPoo> 2
<YumPoo> 1
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b *!*n=smegma@*.dyn.optonline.net]  by Mithrandir
* YumPoo was kicked off #ubuntu-motu by Mithrandir (Mithrandir)
<Mithrandir> oops, I cheated. :-P
<antinobody> That was an odd one
<Hobbsee> that's a very interesting ban.
<Mithrandir> it was what /knockout decided to.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hmmm...fair enough
<antinobody> ever had a request before?
<Hobbsee> hah, okay then
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b *!*@ool-457528f6.dyn.optonline.net]  by Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> is more effective
<Hobbsee> i tihnk
<Hobbsee> oh wait, this is one of those complex non-IP bans, isnt it...
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: think we should unban him at all?
* Hobbsee thinks not.
* antinobody is still confused by the whole thing, but is used to that state by now
* StevenK comes back.
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-b *!*n=smegma@*.dyn.optonline.net]  by Mithrandir
* StevenK kicks his CSS.
<StevenK> My two <div>'s should not wrap around each other!
<Hobbsee> welcome back StevenK
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-b *!*@ool-457528f6.dyn.optonline.net]  by Hobbsee
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* Hobbsee unbans reluctantly.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: well, I did /knockout, not /kb.  If he comes in and is annoying, we'll permanently ban him
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o mitsuhiko]  by Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> uh
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Mithrandir]  by Mithrandir
<Hobbsee> haha
<StevenK> Heh
<Hobbsee> you've got a dodgy script there, i take it
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Mithrandir]  by ChanServ
<Hobbsee> there you go :P
<Mithrandir> no, it's standard irssi functionality.
<Mithrandir> oh, FUCKING CHANSERV
<Hobbsee> what?
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: what were you wanting?
* antinobody belives Mithrandir and Hobbsee have too much time on their hands
<Mithrandir> the /knockout thingy
<Hobbsee> oh
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Mithrandir]  by Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> but it'd be nice if chanserv now stayed away from +o-ing me.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: Seveas has a lovely script, usable in both xchat and irssi.  might want to get your hands on it
* Hobbsee deoped you.  oh man, that op'd you.  my deop script doesnt seem to like working properly.
<Hobbsee> stupid konversation scripts.
<Mithrandir> heh
<Mithrandir> anyway, I think I should try to find some breakfast.
<antinobody> Even at 12:30 in the morning, breakfast sounds good
<Hobbsee> yes, you should.
<Hobbsee> antinobody: you may well be right.
<antinobody> I know I am, because it's 12:37 am, and breakfast sounds good
<antinobody> I have tested my hypothesis
<antinobody> And I'm going to go get a bowl of cereal because of it
<Hobbsee> no, to the too much time on your hands bit
<antinobody> Oh, ha!  Definitely.
<Hobbsee> antinobody: when you end up being op'd in #ubuntu, you kinda need to know all this stuff :P
<antinobody> Pssh, being an op would be too much work
<antinobody> You have to fight crazy pointless wars with your fellow ops
<antinobody> that's too much effort for me
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> no...not usually.  that's just a fun past time
<rob> chanserv?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: i think we all got a bit trigger happy lately - one night we were having major op wars in #ubuntu-offtopic - all ops just kicking each other.  it started with me having a changed nick, and an op saying "no, you cant kick people"  "oh cant i now?  bang!"
<Hobbsee> rob: my deop script is screwed for other people
<antinobody> So then, you started it
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, you should triage bugs instead of kicking ops :p
<Hobbsee> not necessarily
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: haha.  that sometimes happens too.
<rob> hehe, I don't worry about deop scripts, no need to op :)
<Hobbsee> rob: lucky.
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, actually, not triaging, FIXING
<Hobbsee> nah...
<antinobody> fixing bugs is a lot of work...
<Gloubiboulga> true
<Gloubiboulga> that's why I ask Hobbsee to do it :)
* Hobbsee assigns all the bugs in malone to ajmitch 
<rob> ouch
<antinobody> right, cuz he isn't busy enough
<Hobbsee> yeah, he's just sitting around slacking, as usual.
<antinobody> Right, while la trabajadora impresivisma del nombre Hobbsee es siempre trabajando, con su guerra
<Hobbsee> antinobody: translation please?
<antinobody> right, while the (really-really) impressive hard-worker named Hobbsee is always working, with her war
<Hobbsee> haha
<ajmitch> with her vile slander, saying that I'm a slacker
<Hobbsee> hehe
<antinobody> what?  Hey, being a slacker isn't so bad.  I've seemed to make a life of it.
<ajmitch> it is when you've got code to write & packages to break
<Hobbsee> hi Lure
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: so have you broken more of edgy yet?
<Lure> hi Hobbsee
<ajmitch> haven't uploaded my breakage
<Hobbsee> darn!  why not?
<ajmitch> I have other stuff to get done first before I do uploads
<Hobbsee> oh
<Hobbsee> how sad :(
<antinobody> Ok, momentarily back to the relatively constructive thing I was doing...
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> what, before the bot abuse?
<antinobody> When merging, is the general guideline to look for differences between the Ubuntu package and the Debian one, and try and keep the Ubuntu-unique stuff, or
<antinobody> Hey, I just wanted to better understand ubotu
<antinobody> He's always there, helping us, and we never try to understand the bot beneath the mask
<antinobody> anyway
<antinobody> or is there something I'm missing, as is usually the case (back on the merging thing)
<cypher> i am using breezy and it has very less packages by default it seems
<cypher> like no g++
<cypher> no make
<cypher> it has to be downloaded
<cypher> why so ?
<cypher> or did i miss it in the distro cd ?
<dsas> cypher: It's on the distro cd but not installed by default.
<cypher> dsas: thanks i will check it then
<antinobody> My understanding (and you should know, it is limited) is that ubuntu is not meant to be a "developer's" distro, but an general-user distro
<antinobody> so they felt that the developer packagers needn't be defaulted
<dsas> cypher: (you want the build-essential packages). There's discussion over whether it should be installed by default in edgy.
<cypher> antinobody: i dont agree.. even for a general user if he has to download source and install then what he will do ?
<Gloubiboulga> he will install the missing packages
<cypher> dsas: i vote for default
<cypher> i wonder why it was not default
<antinobody> cypher, granted, but the understanding is that many general users will be intimidated by source compiling in general, which is in my experience fairly accurate
<antinobody> my mother doesn't even know what the word "compile" means
<dsas> cypher: You can read the discussion here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2006-June/007329.html
<cypher> antinobody: :) i agree.. but does she really use linux by her own will ?
<cypher> dsas: thx let me read it
<antinobody> cypher:  No, and that's what we want to change.  In fact she doesn't use linux at all.
<antinobody> that's the point
<antinobody> a major goal of ubuntu as a distro is to take away as much of microsofts users away from them as possible
<Hobbsee> not really.  that's a side effect
<antinobody> however NONE of this answers my merging question.  Where are my all-knowing developer mentors?
<antinobody> Hobbsee, it seems to have become a goal though
<antinobody> note bug #1
<cypher> sorry got dc'ed
<Hobbsee> well, yeah
<Hobbsee> and no
<cypher> antinobody: what is your question
<Hobbsee> it's to make it user friendly so that everyone uses it
<antinobody> When merging, is the general guideline to look for differences between the Ubuntu package and the Debian one, and try and keep the Ubuntu-unique stuff, or
<ajmitch> antinobody: keep what is necessary
<antinobody> or is there something I'm missing, as is usually the case (back on the merging thing)
<antinobody> righto
<antinobody> now I just have to figure out how to know what is necessary
<antinobody> I'm looking at k3b right now
<cypher> i am going to try and learn packaging today
<ajmitch> that's the fun part
<antinobody> isn't it though?
<ajmitch> it takes a bit more than a day
<cypher> ajmitch oh
<cypher> any i will start
<antinobody> entonces, vas a aqu cypher:  https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<antinobody> it does?
<antinobody> I did it in a night, a while back
<antinobody> I don't remember any of it
<antinobody> but I did manage to patch okle
<antinobody> it was a REALLY easy patch though
<antinobody> I'll probably have to relearn that to merge...
<antinobody> damn
<antinobody> I really shouldn't swear so much, Hobbsee's just looking for a reason to kick me again, I imagine
<Hobbsee> no, not really
<cypher> antinobody: thanks for the url
<antinobody> not a problem, that's the one Hobbsee gave me when I learned
<antinobody> tis useful
<Hobbsee> oh, and i get pinged whenever my nick or name is mentioned.  so if you want to discuss me in secret...maybe dont mention my name?
<rob> heh
<antinobody> heh, why would I discuss you in secret?
<antinobody> You would know better than me if you were looking for a reason to kick me.
<antinobody> what exactly is debian/rules written in?
<antinobody> anyone know?
<dsas> antinobody: it's a makefile
<antinobody> ajmitch is probably the most likely to know that one...
<antinobody> which is?
<antinobody> I'm still incredibly new to probamming for linux.  Or anything for that matter
<ajmitch> yes, as dsas said
* ajmitch will be back later
<antinobody> What will we do without him?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: makefile is a language too, an evil combination of bash adn python, it think
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: enjoy
<antinobody> Grrr, well, I'll have to go learn what the hell that language means someday
<antinobody> For now, I'll just guess
<antinobody> after all, knowing takes the fun out of life
<Lathiat> anyone here a debmirror guru?
<Lathiat> im trying to debmirror something who's apt line goes along the lines of deb http://repo ./
<Lathiat> debmirror doesn't seem to like not having a section
<dsas> antinobody: I don't think there's much you need to know for packaging purposes. What you need to know is describe in the various guides.
<dsas> Though I've not looked at anything too complex
<antinobody> I don't know, it might be nice to have SOME idea what's what when deciding what to keep and get rid of in merges
<dsas> unless upstream or debian has adopted the patch or make a work around then keep it. I think.
<dsas> (easier said then done presumably)
<antinobody> well, I'm stubborn, I'll just keep beating my head against this process till it works, as with all things
* antinobody will be back in a minute, needs some tea
<Gloubiboulga> oh tea, good idea
<antinobody> tea makes me happy
<Pupeno> Hello.
<Pupeno> If I want to play with the installer, that is, trying to add a feature I have in my head... how should I do it ? how should I set it up ?
<_ion> Deja vu.
<Pupeno> mh?
<Hobbsee> hi again all
<antinobody> hey Hobsee
<antinobody> Hobbsee
<antinobody> close
<Hobbsee> hiya
<antinobody> I need to go to sleep
<antinobody> nice saying seeing you again though
<antinobody> buenas noches
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: did you compile SLIM ?
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<Toadstool> neenaoffline: the package is ready
<Hobbsee> hi Toadstool
<neenaoffline> uploaded it to the universe ?
<Toadstool> not yet
<Hobbsee> neenaoffline: edgy universe, not dapper universe.
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: okay
<neenaoffline> edgy ??
<Hobbsee> yeah
<neenaoffline> next codename ?
<DarkMageZ> yup
<Toadstool> neenaoffline: i'm not a motu fyi :)
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: oh !
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: you're not?  i thought you were
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: then again, why would you be asking for reviews if you were
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: then where will you upload it ?
<Toadstool> neenaoffline: i'll ask someone to review the package and sponsor the upload ;)
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: thanks !
<Hobbsee> neenaoffline: it cant go into dapper by now.  dapper is more or less stable.
<DarkMageZ> me & a friend are having an issue building songbird on our ubuntu dapper boxes, the dev's run fedora and they can't replicate our issue. was wondering if someone with more skill could give it a shot :)
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: got the error message in a pastebin?
<DarkMageZ> i did, i'll repaste
* Hobbsee wasnt signed in at that point
<neenaoffline> Hobbsee: I did'nt understand??
<Toadstool> neenaoffline: the set of packages available in dapper is freezed, we can't add slim
<Hobbsee> neenaoffline: it cant go into dapper by now.  dapper is more or less stable.  All new software, and upgrades, go into dapper+1, ie, edgy, the development release.  Sometimes they get backported for dapper.
<Hobbsee> neenaoffline: see https://wiki.kubuntu.org/TimeBasedReleases
<Toadstool> by the way if anyone wants to review the package... :)
<Toadstool> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2491
<DarkMageZ> is it just me, or is pastebin.com slow...
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: it's impossibly slow.  use pastebin.ca
<DarkMageZ> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16363
<Hobbsee> ouch
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: can you pastebin the makefile as well please?  or give me a link to where the package is?
<Toadstool> nice error :)
<DarkMageZ> my thoughts exactly
<DarkMageZ> http://publicsvn.songbirdnest.com/trac/wiki
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: recognise the error
<Hobbsee> oh drat, it's svn...
<DarkMageZ> revision 999
<DarkMageZ> (which is current)
<DarkMageZ> it's the greatest media player tho, just wish i could get it working :)
<_ion> Better than amarok?
<DarkMageZ> _ion, depends on how u like your gui
<DarkMageZ> _ion, i personally hate amarok
<DarkMageZ> but i'm sure some people like it
<Amaranth> this summer of code stuff is a blast
<DarkMageZ> what project are u doing Amaranth?
<Amaranth> content filtering proxy
<DarkMageZ> using squid as the base?
<Amaranth> nope
<Amaranth> wrote my own
<Amaranth> http://www.realistanew.com/2006/06/24/content-is-blocked/
<Amaranth> with python's stdlib a proxy isn't too hard to make
<DarkMageZ> hmm, are you able to tell it to just filter out porn sites and it will stop most of them, or do you have to manually set each one?
<Amaranth> it does bayesian filtering
<Amaranth> so as you teach it about porn sites it should start figuring it out and blocking them
<Amaranth> that's what the Content Filter tab is for
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: wow, looks nice!  if there were a windows based version, i'd recommend it to our AU government..
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: i'm making a web frontend
<DarkMageZ> they already wasted $80million on filtering software recently
<Amaranth> since real servers don't have dbus and X installed
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: that's exactly what they're talking about sticking on all our ISP's, or offering as a free download - porn filtering software.
<Amaranth> yuck
<Amaranth> i'd better leave a backdoor or something in mine :P
<Hobbsee> yeah exactly
<Hobbsee> haha
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, our government has realised that ISP level filtering doesn't work
<Amaranth> set the X-Not-A-Moron header and it lets you through
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: where are you at?
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: hehe, yeah, exactly
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, nowra
<Hobbsee> how quickly do you think kids will get thru the porn filters?
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: country?
<Amaranth> hmm
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, :P 2 hours south of sydney
<Amaranth> i suspect they won't get through mine, if someone trains it
<Hobbsee> about one minute after $clueless adult puts them on?
<Hobbsee> nice :)
<DarkMageZ> lol, country =D
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: any time you feel like making a spam filter for the @ubuntu.com email addresses, feel free :D
<Amaranth> heh
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: i thought you were from here...i wasnt sure
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: I'm using the Robinson-Fisher algorithm just like most spam filtering software
<DarkMageZ> i have dilutions about nowra being better known
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: web based, or computer based, or what?
<Amaranth> So obviously things can get through but it's not as easy.
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> oh, yeah, right.
<Hobbsee> dont mind my question :P
<Amaranth> porn sites don't usually put random crap in their pages to get through a bayesian filter, i don't think :P
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee wouldnt know.
* Hobbsee wouldnt have the foggiest clue about such things.
<Amaranth> I mean, you'll always find something it doesn't block with whatever level of training it's at but you can't just go to one of those anonymizer sites and get access since it filters based on the content.
<Hobbsee> true
<Amaranth> Something gets through, mark it as bad, it shouldn't get through anymore. :)
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, did u goto the dapper drake celebration party?
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: no, where was it?
<Amaranth> btw, training just one (normal) website as bad seems to make this thing block the whole web
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, somewhere in sydney, i was thinking about going, thinking of going to the edgy eft one
<Amaranth> i mean, only training it with that one thing
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: ah, fair enough - do tell, when you find out where it is.
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: er, okay then.  guess that makes sense.
<Amaranth> Cool, it blocks my website and slashdot but it lets the...questionable stuff through. :)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Amaranth> It's working in reverse. :)
<Amaranth> Someone find ogra for me. :P
<Hobbsee> yes, i guess one would have to be able to find said questionable material, to test out one's filter :P
<Amaranth> Yeah...that's it....
<Amaranth> any of you in paris?
<Hobbsee> nope
<Hobbsee> didnt htey alll eave?
<Amaranth> well, yesterday was supposed to be the last da
<Amaranth> +y
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Amaranth> but i think they have a launchpad meeting or something
<Hobbsee> oh ok
<Amaranth> oh well, when ogra gets back on monday i'll just have that much more cool stuff to show him
<Hobbsee> :)
<DarkMageZ> Amaranth, make sure you always leave a backdoor to get around your own filtering, cause if someone ever used it against u :P
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> with how small the code for the filtering is that'd get found real quick :)
<DarkMageZ> true
<DarkMageZ> the only disadvantage of opensource
<Amaranth> 466 lines of code
<Amaranth> ...wow
<Amaranth> that's tiny :P
<Hobbsee> wow
<Amaranth> that's python
<Amaranth> 7.1 RSS 3.4 Writable Memory
<Amaranth> i believe the last number is the real one
<zul> hey
<tseng> hi
<zul> how is it going tseng
<tseng> fine thanks
<tseng> people dont really believe in AC in barcelona
<zul> heh..
<zul> what are you doing in barcelona
<tseng> guadec.org
<zul> cool
<jpatrick> tseng: having fun there?
<tseng> yeah
<jpatrick> It's boiling hot in Girona
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> ooh new code of conduct
<tseng> ooh?
* tseng is unexcited
<zakame> heh
<Hobbsee> what, 1.0.2?
* imbrandon yawns * 
<zakame> lazy day?
<kelmo> was  here ;-)
<zul> hmmm? new coc
<imbrandon> yup lazy day ;)
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: done with SLIM ?
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: ping
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: ping
<Toadstool> neenaoffline: pong
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: done with SLIM ?
<Toadstool> neenaoffline: what do you mean? the source package is ready but you'll have to wait for it to be uploaded to edgy and built by the buildd...or you can build it on your own
<carlfk> if I want to use xorg7.1  - what is the 'right way' ?
<carlfk> dev on #xorg recommended it to solve a multi head problem
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: was asking if you got anyone to upload it .... already built , merci !
<neenaoffline> merci = thank you in french
<Toadstool> neenaoffline: i'm french :)
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: :) , Indian
<carlfk> is there a howto describing how to upgrade an existing deb?
<crimsun> carlfk: start with uupdate.
<crimsun> hb, Mez|21today
<Mez|21today> ty crimsun
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-25
<neutrinomass> While packaging something, how does one figure out the build-deps ? In the Debian new maintainers guide there's a script, but it doesn't give version numbers. How pedantic should one be in build-deps (e.g. should one not list build-essential ?) ?
<crimsun_> if you're creating a Ubuntu source package from scratch, as pedantic as possible.
<_ion> If upstream uses autoconf, it's quite easy to figure out the deps by reading configure.ac
<neutrinomass> crimsun_: Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. Thanks.
<crimsun_> if you're adjusting a merge from Debian, my personal approach is not to hack at the build-deps locally. Sending a diff upstream works better, but sometimes there's a good reason to have certain b-ds.
<crimsun_> build-essential should never be a b-d anyhow.
<neutrinomass> crimsun_: Ok, so it's "gcc autotools " etc. - this is probably because "build-essential" may change after a while I guess, right ?
<imbrandon> export WORK=~/files/livecd/
<imbrandon> whoops
<crimsun_> neutrinomass: gcc shouldn't be a b-d, either, unless a package requires a specific non-default version
<neutrinomass> crimsun_: OK, thanks again :)
<crimsun_> neutrinomass: autotools shouldn't be necessary to build most packages, but imo it's preferable to having autotools junk in the diff.gz
<neutrinomass> So Build deps are just the "unusual" packages that need to be present (Agreed @ autotools, you're right - but libc should be a dependency )
<crimsun_> anything over and beyond build-essential, generally.
<neutrinomass> Ok thanks :)
<crimsun_> granted I don't do any nexenta porting, so I don't know their policy
<crimsun_> I imagine they deal with things beyond our build-essential, since they have a completely different toolchain
<imbrandon> crimsun_, any idea what " ioctl: LOOP_CLR_FD: Device or resource busy means " ?
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> crimsun_, any idea what " ioctl: LOOP_CLR_FD: Device or resource busy " means  ?
<imbrandon> ahh nm i think i got it
<neutrinomass> apt-get install pine fails with "Package pine is not available, but is referred to by another package.". At least pgp4pine refers to it. Is this a bug ?
<neutrinomass> ( I have multiverse/universe enabled )
<antinobody> what is pine?
* antinobody is not an experienced MOTU
* antinobody is just curious
<antinobody> neutrinomass: you still there?
<antinobody> !pine
<antinobody> Hmm...ubotu seems to not be in this channel
<antinobody> perhaps I should have looks
<antinobody> *ed
<_ion> Pine is a MUA, AFAIR with a non-free license.
<antinobody> it isn't in the debian repos either, that it's referenced is the bug, I suppose
<_ion> Well, a bunch of media player packages suggest w32codecs, which is a good thing IMO. It's available from unofficial repositories. pgp4pine doesn't _depend_ on pine.
<crimsun_> neutrinomass: it's not a bug. pine is listed as an alternate fulfilling the pine|pine396-src Suggests
<crimsun_> (a legit bug would be if it were listed as a Recommends, since then the default behaviour of aptitude would be to attempt to install it)
<neutrinomass> antinobody: A mail client I think ...
<antinobody> really?  odd
<neutrinomass> crimsun_: Then where is pine in the repos? pine396-src gives a similar error ...
<crimsun_> neutrinomass: it's decidedly non-free.
<neutrinomass> crimsun_: Oh, yes (I missed the above discussion)
<neutrinomass> crimsun_: Again thanks and sorry to disturb (there was a person in #ubuntu asking about it which led me to ask in here) :)
<Kyral> hoy Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi Kyral!
<nexu> is there is way to make the signing of the packages non-interactive
<nexu> as in
<nexu> suitable for script batch
<imbrandon> moins Hobbsee
<imbrandon> nexu, maybe an expect scipt ( not very secure though )
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Installed-Size;-10} ${status;-25} ${Package}\n' | sort -n
<nexu> imbrandon: elaborate what - not very secure - mean
<imbrandon> gah
<imbrandon> nexu, expect , its a type of scipting like bash
<imbrandon> scripting*
<nexu> how can i do that?
<Kyral> Gah! Its the weekend
<Kyral> why the HELL am I reading through kdebase API documentation?!
<Hobbsee> Kyral: no it isnt.  it's monday for you.
<Hobbsee> Kyral: to fix it, now get going.
<Kyral> no
<Kyral> writing my editor can wait
<Kyral> weekend == no work
<Hobbsee> Kyral weekend == lots of work
<Kyral> ..shaddup Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> nah....
<imbrandon> hahaha Hobbsee picked up one of my bad habbits ( blah == blah ) , next she'll be typing "right right" hehe
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: heh, no.  that's c++ you know, and i'm supposed to remember it for next semester
<imbrandon> heh
<antinobody> hi folks
<Hobbsee> hi antinobody
<antinobody_> anyone know what or why this ratbert is?
<Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan 
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, wow you have an idiot in -devel too :P
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: hmmm?
<Hobbsee> oh yeah
<elkbuntu> ooh, wrong channel, im all confuzzled today
<Hobbsee> they're notices, you can reroute them.  wheres the problem?
<Hobbsee> :P
<elkbuntu> or more to the point.. just dont pay attention to them ;)
<Hobbsee> true that
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:irc.freenode.net] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient) | http://tinyurl.com/pghsw (motureviewers)
<antinobody> Hobbsee I'm finding that merging requires me to actually know something about the package I'm merging
<antinobody> Am I just thinking too hard?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: no, i think you would have to know something about the package you're merging
<antinobody> that sounds like work...
<antinobody> I need to take this one package at a time then, I think I'll arbitrarily choose a package to focus on learning about
<TheMuso> Where can we find out about what needs merging etc?
<antinobody> TheMuso Un momento
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: apparently there's no list for the general universe, but there's a kde package list
<antinobody> aqu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
<antinobody> Oh, woops
<antinobody> I need to learn how to read
<antinobody> So far, I'm just guessing and checking
<antinobody> I pick a random universe package, and compare the debian unstable version to the dapper version
<TheMuso> hmm ok.
* TheMuso decides to wait till he feels more awake to start merging.
<antinobody> but seriously, I'm not someone you should ever ask advice from
<antinobody> I'm relatively ignorant
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: hopefully soon they'll make one
<TheMuso> Yeah. I'm sure everyone is only barely back from the summmit and need time to unwind. :)
<antinobody> I've chosen the arbitrary package
<antinobody> tis network-manager
<antinobody> now I'll go back to bashing my head against the wall until I get tired and need to go back to sleep
<tuxmaniac> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi tuxmaniac :)
<ajmitch> antinobody: you have to pick the tricky ones, don't you?
<tuxmaniac> long time no see!! missed you all..
<antinobody> ajmitch por supuesto
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch> anyways is the edgy repos up for some action?
<antinobody> Olah tuxmaniac
<ajmitch> tuxmaniac: they have been for awhil
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch> Oops..
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch> I know that. But have the base packages been ported?
<antinobody> which reminds me, I need to reboot now that I've upgraded to edgy on this partition
<ajmitch> ported?
<tuxmaniac> antinobody> olah
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch> I mean uploaded
<tuxmaniac> :)
<tuxmaniac> sorry wrong term
<ajmitch> depends what you mean by base
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch> is it in a status where I can change my sources.list to edgy!! :-)
<ajmitch> depends if you like breakage or not
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch> heh. naughty fellow!
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: sure you can.  just dont expect a working machine.
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee> well. then I will start this work on my sacrificial system then :D
<Hobbsee> haha wise idea
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: did you upgrade your laptop?
* StevenK is only running edgy in two chroots.
* Hobbsee is running edgy in one chroot, whcih probably should be updated again
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I'm not that silly
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: darn!
* Hobbsee would have liked to see it.
<StevenK> % ls -1 /var/cache/pbuilder/base-edgy-*
<StevenK> /var/cache/pbuilder/base-edgy-amd64.tgz
<StevenK> /var/cache/pbuilder/base-edgy-i386.tgz
<StevenK> That's why I have two.
<Hobbsee> particularly gnome 2.15, to see if it's any better
<Hobbsee> yeha, figured that
<Amaranth> gnome 2.15 isn't really there
<Amaranth> just a couple of the easier to package pieces
<StevenK> "Pointers to freenode currently include irc.debian.org, ..."
* StevenK scoffs
<Hobbsee> er..  didnt debian move?
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: oh ok, darn.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Exactly.
<imbrandon> ahh StevenK pbuilders , thought you had some good old fashion chroots going like me ;)
<StevenK> I have 6 pbuilder base tarballs, and one chroot.
<imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$ dchroot -c edgy32 -d
<imbrandon> Executing shell in 'edgy32' chroot.
<imbrandon> (edgy32)brandon@voyager:~$ exit
<imbrandon> exit
<imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$ dchroot -c edgy64 -d
<imbrandon> Executing shell in 'edgy64' chroot.
<imbrandon> (edgy64)brandon@voyager:~$ exit
<imbrandon> exit
<imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$
<StevenK> imbrandon: Have you had a look at schroot?
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> link ?
<imbrandon> brb one sec, getting more dew
<zakame> hmm dchroots
<StevenK> imbrandon: You can install it, and it has a dchroot wrapper.
<StevenK> imbrandon: It can be configured to mount bind mounts before chrooting in.
<imbrandon> ahh i bind them in fstab with dchroot already
<imbrandon> they are just mounted all the time
<imbrandon> is the only diff i see
<StevenK> I found mounting them all the time to be annoying.
<imbrandon> /home           /var/chroot/edgy/home        none    bind            0       0
<imbrandon> /tmp            /var/chroot/edgy/tmp         none    bind            0       0
<imbrandon> /dev            /var/chroot/edgy/dev         none    bind            0       0
<imbrandon> proc-chroot-edgy     /var/chroot/edgy/proc        proc    defaults        0       0
<imbrandon> devpts-chroot-edgy   /var/chroot/edgy/dev/pts     devpts  defaults        0       0
<imbrandon> kinda like that
<StevenK> I know, I was using dchroot before Dapper.
<imbrandon> is it a package ? or just a script somewhere ?
<StevenK> It's a package.
<StevenK> I think it Conflicts against dchroot.
<imbrandon> ouch
<imbrandon> i think we're about to have issues again
<StevenK> It has a dchroot compat wrapper
<zakame> cool
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I'll probably install dapper in a spare partition & dist-upgrade it to edgy
<Hobbsee> nice :)
<ajmitch> assuming I can find the time
<Hobbsee> well, yeah
<Hobbsee> install it on the plane?
<ajmitch> that would be a little pointless
<antinobody> yeah, hard to dist-upgrade sin la red
<antinobody> but then again, at least the install would be done
<Hobbsee> oh yeah...
<Hobbsee> oops
<antinobody> Hey!  you were able to guess what I'd said Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> er, presumably "in the air" or something?
<antinobody> Oh...guess not then
<ajmitch> heh
<antinobody> sin la red is "without the net" still, you got the point
<antinobody> en la aire would be in the air
<Hobbsee> ah, right
<imbrandon> computers without net access are kinda pointless to me ;)
<antinobody> I should learn to use vim, it seems to be more powerful than nano
<imbrandon> anything i dont need the net for i use my ipod and / or pda , not a computer ;)
<Hobbsee> hi rob!
* imbrandon hugs nano and sed, and mumbles about not needing to learn anything else ( well maybe esc --> i --> <edit someting> --> :wq! )
<rob> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> rob: finding anything interesting on your looking in?
<rob> no, thankfully
<Hobbsee> rob: oh good.  once is enough for the day :P
<rob> yeah, tell me about it!
<rob> just keeping a look out, I think we have the problem covered for now
<Hobbsee> rob: heh, right.  i saw nalioth get killed about 10 mins ago by a guy under lilo's account, but havent seen anything else.
<rob> yeah, we got attacked before
<Hobbsee> whether he intended to use a strange quit message or not, i dont know - he seems more mature than that
<imbrandon> [01:55]  <-- dagger has left this server (Killed by TomSawyer ()).
<Hobbsee> rob: the first time, or a second?
<imbrandon> false alarm ;)
<Hobbsee> so it seems.  oh well.
<crimsun> hmm, my client seems to have ridden out the crackfest
<Hobbsee> heh
<crimsun> either that or I'm blind, but either way, low importance
<rob> yeah, try not to disconnect for now :)
<imbrandon> crimsun, mine did too untill the 3rd netsplit
<Hobbsee> heh
<imbrandon> it was kinda funny looking back at it though me and Hobbsee was like wth ? trying to control #ubuntu and #kubuntu cuz everyone else got nuked
<imbrandon> ohh well fun times .... now onto something productive
* rob resumes hacker watch
* Hobbsee goes on another power trip.
<ajmitch> oh dear
<Hobbsee> :P
<ajmitch> watch out world..
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee> are you a student?
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: yes
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee> can i pm you?
* Hobbsee marks ajmitch as her first victim
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: sure
* Hobbsee is supposed to be studying.
* ajmitch coughs
<antinobody> Hobbsee:  You're still in school too?
<antinobody> (referring to the whole "school year" concept)
<Hobbsee> no
<rob> yay my birthday tomorrow :)
<Hobbsee> university
<antinobody> granted, you live in an entirely different country, so the set-up may be different
<imbrandon> happy b day rob
<antinobody> ...right, that's not what i meant
<tuxmaniac> rob> advanced Bday man!!
<rob> cheers :)
* rob thinks he should have taken the day off work
<antinobody> Here schools have quarters, and most people take the summer quarter off
<rob> oh well
<antinobody> well some have semesters, but they don't count
<imbrandon> wheres here antinobody ?
<antinobody> Oregon
<antinobody> US
<antinobody> probably most of the US for that matter
<imbrandon> rob you always take the day AFTER your b day off so you can go out the night of the bday and sleep in the next day ;)
<imbrandon> ahh not in KC ;)
<rob> heh yeah
<rob> looks like the restart is off :)
<Hobbsee> rob: can we make an exception to bring ubotu back, or something?
<rob> what do you mean?
<rob> won't ubotu reconnect?
<Hobbsee> rob: arent there no more reconnects?
<rob> for now, shouldn't be too much longer hopefully
<Hobbsee> rob: right.  kinda annoying not having the bot there.  EdgyEft
* StevenK sighs at freenode.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: what's up?
<ajmitch> it's being freenode
<StevenK> Exactly.
<rob> we are working on a fix
<rob> sorry about the disruption
<StevenK> rob: I'm curious about the issue at hand, if you can tell me.
<rob> whats that?
<StevenK> rob: The issue that requires a shutdown and restart
<rob> it looks like we won't have to do a restart
<Amaranth> i'm more interesting in the weird kill messges :P
<antinobody> ajmitch what does freenode be when it's being freenode?
<Amaranth> pretend i make sense
* StevenK sighs at his Rails app.
<Amaranth> antinobody: it means this thing is so huge something is almost always wrong
<StevenK> Or more at my lack of CSS knowledge.
<antinobody> I see...
<Amaranth> everyone is on freenode :P
<Amaranth> except the debian, mozilla, and gnome guys
<StevenK> I have two <div>'s. One is float: left, and the other wraps around it, which is not what I want it to do.
<antinobody> anyone know a good place to learn c (I know bits and pieces...) network-manager seems to be written in it, and that's the package I've arbitrarily decided to dissect
<Amaranth> StevenK: set a margin-left on the other one that's the same size as the width of the floated one
<_ion> stevenk: Then use something else than float: left;
<rob> antinobody, there are lots of good free web sites
<antinobody> rob I know, but I don't know what they are
<Amaranth> cppreference.com
<antinobody> gracias Amaranth
<Amaranth> C++ and C
<rob> www.cplusplus.com?
<imbrandon> sudo reboot
<imbrandon> grr
<StevenK> _ion: Can you suggest anything?
<rob> www.cprogramming.com
<StevenK> imbrandon: Permission denied
<StevenK> Awww
<_ion> stevenk: I'd like to see or know about the intended layout first.
<_ion> stevenk: Do you have a design/mockup image?
<StevenK> On paper.
<StevenK> _ion: Basically, I'd like a sidebar with navigation links, and the rest of the page for content. Does that make sense?
<_ion> stevenk: Thanks, that's exactly the information i needed.
<_ion> stevenk: Something like this: #sidebar { position: absolute; left: 0; top: 0; width: 10em; } #content { margin-left: 11em; }
* StevenK tries that.
<StevenK> _ion: That works great, thanks.
<_ion> np.
<Amaranth> eww, no :P
<Amaranth> that's a rather naive layout
<Amaranth> use float
<Amaranth> the margin-left: 11em; still does what you want if you float the sidebar
<_ion> amaranth: Are you to free to put the sidebar markup after the content in HTML that way?
<Amaranth> there are some tricks to do that, iirc
<Amaranth> but postition: absolute; is not a good answer
<_ion> Well, one of them is that rather naive layout. :-)
<Amaranth> I once spent a week making this really awesome layout using position and such and it kicked ass in Firefox, Opera, Safari, etc
<Amaranth> IE barfed all over it
<EdgyEft> IE always barfs
<antinobody> IE is still alive?
<Amaranth> I could have fixed it using Javascript but I just went with my current layout instead.
<_ion> antinobody: Hasn't been for many years.
<antinobody> _ion That's what I thought
<Amaranth> IE is 90% of your visitors
<EdgyEft> Amaranth: not on ubuntu-nl.org ;)
<Amaranth> heh
<EdgyEft> a mere 35% there
<DarkMageZ> and some of them would be opera users masked
<_ion> stevenk: Btw, that _should_ work with IE. The problems come if you try to make it pixel-perfect, e.g. an exact 0px or 1px gap instead of a 1em-ish gap between the sidebar and the content.
<Amaranth> _ion: because IE only handles top or bottom and left or right
<Amaranth> but not both at the same time
<Toadstool> 'morning
<antinobody> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi antinobody
<ajmitch> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey ajmitch
<antinobody> I'm going to go to sleep now, then wake up and go back to learning c, so that I can understand the package network-manager, so that I can use it to practice mergin
<antinobody> this is all far too much work, and incredibly inefficient
<antinobody> so I figure I should learn a lot from it
<antinobody> sin embargo, buenas noches a todos
<Hobbsee> hi all
<jsgotangco> hi
<Hobbsee> hey jsgotangco :)
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee, jsgotangco
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<jsgotangco> hey ajmitch
<fbond> anyone like to check out midisport-firmware on revu?
<fbond> BTW, this package downloads firmware at install time, since the firmware can't be distributed except in the original source package
<fbond> (due to licensing restrictions)
<fbond> is there any way to indicate that an internet connection is required using dependencies?
<fbond> that would be nice
<fbond> but debian packages don't provide "pseudo-dependencies" do they?  only real packages can be depended on, right?
<dsas> fbond: some of the 'real packages' are just there for dependencies for other packages (see ubuntu-desktop), you can't depend on an internet connection though.
<Lut1n> can't check that in preinst script ?
<zul> hey
<fbond> hmm, yes you can check in preinst, I guess that is the easiest way
<fbond> If preinst fails, the package is not considered "installed" is it, or is it "installed" but not "configured"?
<fbond> hi zul
<zul> hey fabo
<zul> doh...fbond
<fbond> yuh . s'okay tab-completion doesn't always do you favors
<ogra> fbond, have a look at the bcm43xx-fwcutter package, thats using a way that policy compoliant
<fbond> ogra, thanks
<ogra> (or the flashplugin-nonfree one)
<zul> hey ogra
<ogra> hi zul
<zul> go go xen rangers
<Kyral> ...zul are yousa on crack?
<zul> hmm?
<Kyral> 08:07]  <zul> go go xen rangers
<Hobbsee> hi Kyral
<zul> Kyral, ah...yes yes i am on crach
<Hobbsee> i think he must b
<Hobbsee> e
<tseng> xen eh
<nexu> is dh_md5sums the task that will do the signing ?
<Hobbsee> nexu: er...i dont think so.
<nexu> which one is that?
<nexu> i want to automate some package building process
<nexu> to run them without human interaction
<nexu> which now i need to type a secret key everytime it tries to sign the deb file
<dsas> can't you automate signing by using gpg-agent and debuild ?
* dsas doesn't know much about packaging.
<Hobbsee> dsas: you still need to put in your passphrase
<Hobbsee> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -k98B2D4F0 works
<Hobbsee> -S -sa are the flags for doing source only
<_ion> hobbsee: Not every time, when using gpg-agent.
* Hobbsee doesnt know about gpg-agent
* Hobbsee just uses her scripts
<uniq> with gpg-agent you just give your password the first time, iirc.
<Hobbsee> nice
<_ion> Just run debuild -S, and after a while you have a signed package. No passwords asked if you already have typed it recently. :-)
<Hobbsee> heh, nic
<Hobbsee> e
<Hobbsee> bit of a security risk thouhg
<uniq> That's what i did to. Was really confused the firt time i had gpg-agent running. :)
<uniq> firt/first.
* _ion recommends keychain for managing {gpg,ssh}-agent
<_ion> hobbsee: You can set the password timeout depending on your level of paranoia. :-)
<nexu> dsas: yeah nm
<Hobbsee> true
<nexu> i just found in the manual
<nexu> how to automate it
<nexu> but thx
* Hobbsee has seen some of these guy's paranoia.  it's kinda weird.
* Hobbsee sees the point of keys not being comprimised though
<dsas> shhh, hobbsee you can't talk about them being paranoid. They'll refuse to sign your key.
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee could get three people to sign her key in the next couple of weeks, if she wanted.
<nexu> i'm in
<nexu> :P
<nexu> 2 more
<_ion> If you ever visit Tampere, Finland, i can sign your key as well. :-)
<Hobbsee> heh
<freeflying|away> we can upload to edgy now?
<tseng> yes
<shawarma> If I have a package I'd like to manage with CDBS, what is the proper procedure if the source doesn't have a configure script in upstream, but only the configure.ac and Makefile.am etc.. ?
<shawarma> Do I add a makebuilddir rule with aclocal, autoconf and automake ?
<shawarma> Ah... just discovered DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOCONF and _AUTOMAKE..
<shawarma> Yup, that did the trick. Never mind. :-D
<zakame> hiall
<Lathiat> hrm, i just did some extremely silly
<Lathiat> rm -rf /sbin
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: er, ouch?
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> i was cleaning up a backup
<Lathiat> and somehow did /sbin instead of sbin/
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> fixing this uber dfodge..
<Lathiat> i rsynced /sbin off another dapper machine
<Hobbsee> haha
<Lathiat> and now im apt-get --reinstalling from dpkg -S /sbin/*
<Lathiat> i scare myself sometime
<Lathiat> s
<Lathiat> .. seems to be ok :)
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: lucky :P
<Lathiat> i rebooted all good
<Lathiat> phew
<Lathiat> that was silly
<Lathiat> at lesat it wasnt /
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Hobbsee> hi Sp4rKy
<Sp4rKy> hi Hobbsee :)
<Sp4rKy> how are you ?
* Hobbsee is studying :(
<Hobbsee> and thinking about sleep.
<Sp4rKy> arf
* Sp4rKy is packaging :)
<Hobbsee> fun :)
<Sp4rKy> yes
<Sp4rKy> i'm packaging audacious
<Sp4rKy> just some errors and it should be good
<Hobbsee> :)
<nexu> just done packaging bmpx
<nexu> heh , even write scripts to do it for me in the future :>
<nexu> wrote*
<tseng> scripting packaging is not a brilliant idea
<nexu> its for the same package
<tseng> so why would you package it again
<freeflying|away> nexu: where is your bmpx's package?
<nexu> tseng: because i'm making packages from svn ?
<nexu> freeflying|away: i have to upload it first
<tseng> meh
<nexu> freeflying|away: wait
<freeflying|away> nexu: upload to where? REVU? universe?
<nexu> freeflying|away: erm just my page for now, i still ahve to read the docs on how to get it up to revu
<nexu> or revo
<nexu> *u
<paniq> hey
<paniq> are there plans to release inkscape 0.44?
<Sp4rKy> does nexuiz or warsow are in universe ?
<freeflying|away> nexu:  as I know, there have package for debian
<paniq> i see at the moment its 0.43 in the repos
<nexu> freeflying|away: those re old
<nexu> freeflying|away: well actually
<nexu> i looked thru that file lastnight
<nexu> and saw some errors in the packaging
<nexu> freeflying|away: http://thehoneymustardbandits.org/nexu/linux/beepmediaplayer/
<eitch0000> anyone got an idea how can I create new linux-restricted-module package compiled against a new kernel?
<CarlFK> sounds like my "how do I make an xorg 7.1 deb" qest
<Sp4rKy> i'm working on warsow and i've few questions
<Sp4rKy> the tarball contains some binaries / repositories but no installation
<Sp4rKy> just extract the tarball and run foo/warsow
<Sp4rKy> so what must i do ?
<Sp4rKy> just place all files in /opt ?
<Sp4rKy> E: audacious: ldconfig-symlink-referencing-wrong-file usr/lib/libaudacious.so -> /tmp/buildd/audacious-1.0.0/debian/audacious/usr/lib/libaudacious.so.2.0.0 instead of libaudacious.so.2.0.0
<Sp4rKy> how could i solve this ?
<Sp4rKy> and how could i add postinst actions ?
<phanatic> hi people
<Sp4rKy> hi
<fbond> hello
<fbond> if my prerm exits with non-zero status, shouldn't the install abort?
<fbond> for some reason, my postinstall script still executes
<fbond> any ideas?
<crimsun> for an upgrade or a clean install?
<fbond> err...upgrade, as it were
<fbond> that makes a difference?
<crimsun> yes
<fbond> I see
<crimsun> prerm isn't relevant for a clean install
<fbond> the old postinstall script is being run on abort-upgrade
<fbond> i meant preinst
<crimsun> are you using set -e in the script?
<fbond> sorry
<fbond> oh, that too
<fbond> I got it, sorry to bug you
<bddebian> Heya gang
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi phanatic
<siretart> slomo_: I have now packaged new upstream of xine-lib. care to have a look?
<slomo_> siretart: if it works for you just upload it :)
<siretart> slomo_: didn't test it yet
<siretart> the packages look good
<siretart> fuck: xine: gconv_db.c:232: __gconv_release_step: Assertion `step->__end_fct == ((void *)0)' failed.
<slomo_> glibc bug probably
<slomo_> i saw this in another bugreport already
<siretart> ah, seems to be #50584
<siretart> bug #50584
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50584 in xine-ui "No open windows" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50584
<slomo_> jep
<siretart> same with gxine
<siretart> hm. shall I upload anyway?
<slomo_> i think so... we can fix it later and this way we at least have the new version
<siretart> ok
<siretart> well, since you are okay with bzr, and know where my branches are..
<antinobody> good afternoon people
<fbond> hello
<antinobody> hello fbond
<fbond> if I accidentally uploaded a binary to revu :(
<fbond> can I use dcut to remove the files?
<crimsun> fbond: just upload the source
<fbond> tried that, fails
<fbond> can't overwrite the dsc file
<crimsun> fbond: ping a revu admin to remove them
<fbond> revu admin is ... (I forget)
<crimsun> fbond: I think siretart is the most recently active of them
<crimsun> (according to /whois at least)
<fbond> thanks
<fbond> neat, didn't know /whois (relatively new to IRC) sorry
<crimsun> /whois nick nick  should reveal idle time
<antinobody> anyone know what I should do if debdiff tells me gpg can't find a public key
<siretart> fbond: in channel is fine
<fbond> sorry
<siretart> fbond: no, revu doesn't support dcut commands
<fbond> thought so
<fbond> I ftp'd in to check on progress
<fbond> didn't see much :)
<crimsun> antinobody: ...debdiff tells you that?
<crimsun> (do you mean debsign instead?)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-18
<soc> is there a chance that the linux-libertine fonts will be updated before gutsy?
<soc> currently they are at 2.5.9
<soc> 2.6.9 is already available
<StevenK> crimsun: Ping, round 2, re: 118734
<crimsun> StevenK: pong, round 2
<StevenK> crimsun: I'm just a little confused about your comments as to why atlas-cpp can't be synced.
<StevenK> crimsun: The second comment you made looks to be incorrect, since only one .deb contains the .la's.
<StevenK> crimsun: And I'm not sure what you meant by the first comment.
<crimsun> ignore the first comment
<crimsun> (hence the "Sorry")
<StevenK> Right, okay.
<crimsun> Ubuntu's libatlas-cpp-0.6-0c2a contains usr/lib/libAtlas-0.6.la
<StevenK> Oh, now I get it.
<StevenK> libatlas-cpp-0.6-1 needs to Conflict/Replace libatlas-cpp-0.6-0c2a
<crimsun> yes.
<crimsun> (hence no sync)
<StevenK> crimsun: Right. Sorry for being thick.
<crimsun> np
<StevenK> Hrm. Shouldn't Debian have made this change, too.
<crimsun> looking at packages.do, it looks so
<crimsun> if it's made in 0.6.0-3, *then* we could sync :)
<StevenK> Heh
<pochu> Good night everyone!
<StevenK> man-di: So, why doesn't libatlas-cpp-0.6-1 Conflict and Replace with libatlas-cpp-0.6-0c2a? It ought to.
<AndyP> perhaps a motu would like to unsubscribe u-u-s from bug #120869 until the debdiff is revised
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120869 in chromium "Game starts paused if you restart it" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120869
* persia looks
<persia> AndyP: Thanks for checking :)
<AndyP> y'welcome
<AndyP> btw, what do you do with the debdiffs once they're acceptible? just grab the package and use patch, or is there a more clever way?
<persia> AndyP: Ignoring the review steps, I just download the source, `patch -p1 < ../patch` from the source directory, and build.
<somerville32> I'm setting up pbuilder on my server so that I can work on packages no matter where I am but I'm running into a weird problem. It is trying to fetch index file that is not in my sources list and hence dies.
<AndyP> somerville32: can you pastebin the error messages (if any)?
<somerville32> I can just paste it here - one line.
<somerville32> Failed to fetch http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/apt/dists/dapper/Release  Unable to find expected entry  main/binary-amd64/Packages in Meta-index file (malformed Release file?)
<somerville32> Reading package lists... Done
<somerville32> E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
<somerville32> Ok.... four lines, lol
<somerville32> And as to that url, I don't remember adding that.
<somerville32> However, I'm not the only one with root access to the machine
<AndyP> have you checked /etc/pbuilderrc?
<AndyP> or your ~/.pbuilderrc of course
<who_cares> I have a question about the phpbb package
<who_cares> why is the version set to 2.0.21-6?
<who_cares> the latest version is 2.0.22
<who_cares> would that be something to package as an update for feisty? gutsy already has .22
<RAOF> You'd need to ask for that to be backported.
<RAOF> Since Feisty won't be getting new versions of stuff; it's released :)
<RAOF> !backport
<ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<StevenK> And the phpbb package doesn't exist.
<who_cares> http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/web/phpbb2
<StevenK> Ah. The 2 is important. :-)
<who_cares> sorry, I was typing that from memory
<who_cares> I wasn't sure if the .22 release should go under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU because it has some security patches
<StevenK> Security isn't handled by SRU.
<who_cares> okay
<RAOF> and an SRU generally wouldn't be an upgrade to .22, right?  It'd cherry-pick patches.
<StevenK> If you can make/generate a patch for .21 to fix the security holes, someone here can do the update.
<StevenK> RAOF: Except if you're firefox, it seems. :-P
<RAOF> Ah, of course!
<who_cares> no new features are added to the 2.x line except bug fixes and security patches, so it should probably be backported
<RAOF> Except backports aren't the way to get bugfixes, IIRC :)
<StevenK> What we would usually do is take the security patches, and apply them to .21
<who_cares> but it would still keep the .21 version number?
<StevenK> Yes.
<who_cares> is that what the .21-6 is about?
<AndyP> the 6 is the debian package revision
<who_cares> that would mess up the phpbb version system though
<who_cares> and that leaves an error in the admin area
<AndyP> i don't see how it would be a problem, it's just the version number of the package
<who_cares> phpbb checks the version number it has on hand and compares it to a text file at phpbb.com and if the numbers don't match it shows a warning that the user needs to update
<StevenK> And if they're going to update they are going to ignore the Debian packaging system anyway.
<who_cares> yeah
<who_cares> they have their own version numbers
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso :)
<crimsun> LongPointyStick: consider using bzr for ~ .  It has saved my butt thrice.
<StevenK> Or, gasp, backups.
<LongPointyStick> crimsun: it's only .kde/ that i've lost
<LongPointyStick> but that's still...very bad.
<RAOF> Hm.  bzr for ~.  Sounds like a good idea :)
* LongPointyStick has no logs now.  :(
<superm1> what advantage would it have over rsync though - would versioning be that valuable on ~?
<crimsun> superm1: it really depends on your usage
<crimsun> I have several files I modify heavily, so it's useful to track their changes
<crimsun> (yes, I should probably learn to use a real gui planner or something, but TODO doesn't die easily, durnit)
<superm1> i guess i missed what happened to Hobbsee, did she accidentally overwrite something in ~/.kde ?
<LongPointyStick> yeah
<LongPointyStick> the entire folder.
<superm1> LongPointyStick,  :(
<LongPointyStick> the stupid thing is - i did consider making a backup...
<LongPointyStick> though, oh, i'll be careful, i wont need it
<superm1> i made the same mistake with installing pidgin in feisty a few days ago.  it apparantly moves your ~/.gaim/logs to ~/.purple/logs and makes the ~/.gaim/logs a symlink instead.  I decided to stick with gaim for now and rm -rf ~/.purple.  Whoops  -there went all my logs
<LongPointyStick> heh
<superm1> i've got a weekly incremental sbackup setup now though, so stuff like this won't be of worry in the future
<zakame> lpsdoom
<StevenK> I should resurrect my backup stuff.
<StevenK> And update the two spindles of DVDs I have.
<Hobbsee> it's mostly just irc logs that are lost, that are the problem
<Hobbsee> most of the configs i have on an old backup
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Sounds like you have had a problem... I hope everything is ok.
<TheMuso> Data wise.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i havent lost that much
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Thats good.
<Hobbsee> it's mostly irc logs, which i cant recover
<TheMuso> I guess it comes down to just how important those logs are.
* crimsun blinks
<crimsun> is aptitude(8) (the man page) a bit wonk for anyone else in gutsy?
<crimsun> the COMMAND-LINE ACTIONS section, specifically
<jussi01> hello everyone
<jussi01> hi crimsun
* jussi01 throws sticks and stones at knetwork manager
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: uh, reasonably
<jussi01> hello Hobbsee, TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey jussi01.
<Hobbsee> hiya jussi01 
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> does anyone know how to use wireless and wired networks simaltaneously?
<StevenK> Set it up that way?
<Hobbsee> you cant, with nm
<StevenK> And yes, that.
<jussi01> heheh... ok...
<jussi01> :D
* jussi01 throws more sticks and stones at knetwork manager....
<RAOF> crimsun: Yes.  A bunch of \fB's and stuff
<coNP> hey everyone
<jussi01> hi coNP
<porthose> could a MOTU nuke a REVU upload for me, ampache-3.3.3.2, I screwed the upload up (look at the .orig.tar.gz) I have it fixed but when I run dput -f it will not show the changes made 
<jussi01> porthose: it seems your new upload is there now
<porthose> It's showing june 14 and it should say june18 and ampache-3.3.3.2_0ubuntu1.orig.tar.gz should be ampache-3.3.3.2.orig.tar.gz
<jussi01> porthose: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5611
<porthose> cool woks for me I don't know what was up I reloaded the page several times and it did not show oh well thanks 
<StevenK> porthose: The upload id will change with each new upload.
<jussi01> porthose: there is also http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5519
<jussi01> diferent upload altogether
<porthose> k cool If you have time would you mind looking at it?
<jussi01> porthose: Im not a motu, sorry, I can look, however, dholbach might have time :P
<jussi01> hello dholbach
<dholbach> good morning
<porthose> dholback: good morning
<dholbach> porthose: I don't know what jussi01 is referring to, but if you don't find anybody else to look at, you can drop me a mail at dholbach at ubuntu.com
<StevenK> dholbach: Morning! Do you mind if I borrow/steal your bluez-gnome merge?
<dholbach> hi porthose
<dholbach> StevenK: not at all
<Hobbsee> hiya dholbach 
<dholbach> heya Hobbsee
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
<jussi01> porthose: so you heard the man, send him an email with the url from revu
<porthose> I sure will thanks 
<jussi01> he will get to it in order of his emails... so on a monday morning, thatll be a few hours probably.
<RAOF> Yay, a new democracyplayer upstream.
* StevenK wipes the sarcasm off RAOF's last statement.
<RAOF> Eh, I think some of the patches have made it into the upstream release.
<RAOF> So, hopefully, there won't have to be quite so much munging around :)
<RainCT> hi
<dholbach> porthose: did you send the mail?
<dholbach> hey Nightrose
<RainCT> AndyP: ping
<porthose> sure did
<Nightrose> hey dholbach
<dholbach> porthose: hum.... I didn't get it yet
<porthose> resending
<dholbach> thanks porthose
<RainCT> AndyP: ah ok, nevermind
<porthose> dholback: Here is the link http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5611
<dholbach> porthose: downloading it... will let you know later - still fixing some other bits up elsewhere
<porthose> cool works for me have a nice day. I'm going to bed it's 0200am
<dholbach> porthose: sleep tight :)
<porthose> thanks
<crimsun> ** Message: don't know how to handle audio/x-m4a
<crimsun> hmm, this is new.
<dholbach> porthose: I'm 'dholbacH', not 'dholbacK' - maybe that's why I didn't get the mail?
* crimsun reads gst-inspect-0.10(1)
<porthose> could be going to resend
<dholbach> porthose: it's fine now, I have the package downloaded
<porthose> k going to change my contacts 
<crimsun> (hmm, no, gst-typefind-0.10(1) seems more appropriate)
<AndyP> RainCT: pong, if it still applies
<jussi01> can some one tell me what apt-build does and when id use it?
<crimsun> the former should be outlined in its Description (`apt-cache show apt-build`).  The latter may be "if you feel your CPU(s) are much too idle, and you have a severe rash to burn off."
<crimsun> e.g., if you are feeling the urge to recompile some subset of source packages for your shining EM64T.
<AndyP> sigh, my brain isn't working this morning... can/should i mark bug #92952 fix released?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 92952 in gnu-smalltalk "[can-not-install]  file overwrite error" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92952
<crimsun> yes, you may, and yes, you should.
<AndyP> thanks
<crimsun> np
<jussi01> crimsun: ok, thanks :D
<dholbach> thanks StevenK
<StevenK> dholbach: No problem.
<crimsun> argh, I keep typing gst-launchpad[tab] 
<crimsun> silly muscle memory
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> Anyone else seeing problems with building gtk programs?
<RAOF> Specifically: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26084/
<RAOF> (There goes the simple democracyplayer merge :()
<RAOF> Intriguing.  Anyone know where /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkbuilder.h comes from?  Neither ubotu nor apt-file seem to give me anything!
<Burgundavia> RAOF: the brandnew GTK
<Burgundavia> http://blogs.gnome.org/johan/2007/06/15/gtkbuilder-has-landed/
<RAOF> Ah.  Ok, so it's not going to show up on my feisty apt-file. :(
<RAOF> Oh, *awesome*
<RAOF> Now, to work out whether democracyplayer FTBFS due to a bug in the new gtk, or due to something stupid in democracyplayer.  I know where *my* money is.
<RAOF> Ok, now I'm confused.  I've looked at the two lines from gtkbuilder.h that raise errors in the democracyplayer build, but they look just fine to me.
* RAOF whines plaintively to the world in general.
<StevenK> RAOF: dpatch or cdbs patching?
<RAOF> StevenK: CDBS
<RAOF> Also, I can't see where you're going with this.  Which is perhaps a good thing, since I can't see what's wrong: )
<StevenK> Never mind, I was misunderstanding anyway
<StevenK> Oh sigh, does the band next door have to practice *now*
<RAOF> Yes, yes they do.
<RAOF> The twelve moons of a significant planet in Alpha Centauri are perfectly aligned.
<StevenK> Keep giggling, I'm reloading. :-P
<RAOF> Please unload in the direction of democracyplayer, then.
* smcgraw is away: I'm away
* smcgraw is back (gone 00:00:37)
<shawarma> smcgraw: Please disable public away messages.
<jellyfish2002> oops
<StevenK> dholbach: I've looked at your pyorbit merge too, that was ... entertaining.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<pochu> tarzeau: probably #launchpad is a better place to ask, but you should join the Driver team.
<tarzeau> pochu: i already am in the driver team?
<tarzeau> pochu: but https://launchpad.net/%7Egurkan-linuks/+participation doesn't list it?
<pochu> tarzeau: it lists the teams you're in, not the projects.
<tarzeau> aha
<pochu> e.g. you can be a project driver, without being in a team, since the project driver can be a person too.
<tarzeau> can i show project participation?
<tarzeau> i mean, to keep track of what i can work on when bored?
<pochu> tarzeau: sorry, I can't understand your question. Project participation?
<tarzeau> yes
<pochu> What do you mean with it?
<tarzeau> the main user page has some useful links, but i'm missing the one telling me what projects i work on
<tarzeau> when i go to launchpad home i can't see sauerbraten in any list
<tarzeau> but i know i'm something of that project
<tarzeau> then i go on holidays, forget everything, i need something to remind me on what stuff i work...
<pochu> tarzeau: Look at 'Most active in' at https://launchpad.net/~pochu
<Hobbsee> tarzeau: use launchpad.net/~<youruserid>
<tarzeau> https://launchpad.net/%7Egurkan-linuks/ nothing about most active there?
<pochu> tarzeau: it'll show up on your page when you have some karma on any project :)
<tarzeau> pochu: how can i get a karma on that project sauerbraten?
<tarzeau> i have 0
<pochu> Filling a bug, for example
<StevenK> LP doesn't show me active in Debian. I uploaded twice last week!
<tarzeau> bugs of it are tracked in the debian bts?
<pochu> Or doing translations, or...
<tarzeau> StevenK: me too!
<pochu> StevenK: LP doesn't give karma for uploads yet
<StevenK> pochu: I uploaded to *Debian*.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: that wouldnt be regarded as the debian ubuntu knows about - with the bugs and such?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: But I've done that too.
<StevenK> Linking bug reports and such
<tarzeau> StevenK: your debian karma is here http://io.debian.net/~tar/bugstats/?steven
<nixternal> gooooooooooood morning Ubuntu MOTU!!!!!
<Hobbsee> hiya vista-lover
<nixternal> boo
<nixternal> http://io.debian.net/~tar/bugstats/?nixternal
<nixternal> gahaha, my Karma kicks arse!
<StevenK> nixternal: Mine is 3.8
<tarzeau> 4.3 here
<tarzeau> the more variety of stuff you do, the more karma you can get
<nixternal> I still have my 2 ITPs to close, and that should bump me up to a solid 1.3 ;p
<tarzeau> (((Source + 1) * (Archived Bugs + 1) * (Sponsored Packages + 1) * (NMUs + 1)) / (Active Bugs + 1)) ^ (1 / 3)
<tarzeau> that's the formula
<StevenK> If I could be bothered fixing some of the more esoteric Linda bugs, my karam would be better.
<StevenK> karma, even
<tarzeau> StevenK: or you sponsor packages?
<tarzeau> increases karma significantly
<StevenK> Ha. Ha ha. Hahahahaha
<tarzeau> hehe
<AndyP> what's the procedure for flagging that i want to package a "[needs-packaging] " package? assign the bug to myself and mark as in progress?
<tarzeau> nixternal, StevenK do you have a 128x128 foto of yourselves? i can add it to that bugstats page if you want
<StevenK> tarzeau: Yes, and you can't have it.
* StevenK is quite unphotogenic
<AndyP> ...i was thinking of packaging something like pycmdr if no one else is interested in it
<geser> AndyP: yes, assigning the bug to you and setting it to "In Progress" should work
<bmm> Any  MOTU: The ccbuild package is looking for comments or a second advocate. If you have time, see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5572
<AndyP> geser: thanks
<infinito> can any motu give a little review on this? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5532... just a little pygtk app...
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<cbx33> ping imbrandon
<AndyP> hehe awesome. seen on a needs-packaging bug: "needs to be packaged so my wife will love me."
<cbx33> heheh
<shawarma> AndyP: heh. bug no?
<shawarma> cbx33: I have a suggestion for vcsfrenzy.
<cbx33> ooh
<cbx33> shoot
<cbx33> I'm all ears
<cbx33> and 2 eyes too
<shawarma> cbx33: Instead of doing the notifications yourself, you could generate an rss feed which could in turn be read by liferea or whatever rss reader people use.
<AndyP> shawarma: Bug #111738 ... pity the link in it is broken
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111738 in Ubuntu "[needs packaging]  Maitreya" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111738
<cbx33> shawarma possible
<cbx33> give me a run down
<cbx33> how you would like it to work
<shawarma> Well, vcsfrenzy would do it's check-various-repositories magic and write some rss (or Atom or whatever) to some files which will then be served by a webserver to an rss feedreader.
<shawarma> It would make it more complex, but I find that a lot (possibly all) of the UI stuff of vcsfrenzy can be done easily by liferea as well.
<shawarma> Well, it wouldn't actually be more complex in itself, but the bzr->vcsfrenzy->rss-file->webserver->rss-client chain is obviously more complex.
<shawarma> Hmm... liferea could probably read a file:/// url, so you can leave out the webserver bit, if you want.
<shawarma> cbx33: Just a thought for the idea pool :)
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> coll I'll keep that on my ideas board
<Baby> Hobbsee: hi! :)
<Hobbsee> heya!
<infinito> can any motu give a little review on this? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5532...
<Riddell> lionel: you confirmed 120190, but you're not in ubuntu-dev so you don't have rights to do so.  it looks fine though from what I see so I'll sync it, but next time you should describe why you agree its a good idea rather than just confirm it
<Riddell> bug 120190
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120190 in scim-canna "Please sync scim-canna 1.0.0-2 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120190
<lionel> Riddell: I'm in ubuntu-dev
<Riddell> are you?
<lionel> yes, a new one :)
<lionel> (new since 15 days or so)
<pochu> infinito: I'd change ' More information:' with '  Homepage:' (indented with 2 spaces instead of one)
<lionel> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/~lionel.porcheron
<Hobbsee> Riddell: he is.  really
<Hobbsee> lionel: didnt you just apply for core too, or something?
<pochu> That was mrpouit 
<lionel> Hobbsee: no, it's not me. It's mr_pouit
<pochu> Which is Lionel too ;)
<Hobbsee> ohhh
<Hobbsee> right
<infinito> pochu: sorry, correct link is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5542
<infinito> that change is already done...
<Riddell> lionel: I don't see ubuntu-dev in https://launchpad.net/~lionel.porcheron/+participation
<pochu> Riddell: look at the right column
<pochu> Indirect participation.
<pochu> infinito: hehe, I was thinking I already told you that ;)
<Riddell> gosh how confusing
<Riddell> what's the difference between MOTU and ubuntu-dev then?
<pochu> Appart of the name? ;)
<Riddell> yes
<lionel> ubuntu-dev is MOTU + core-dev
<infinito> pochu: so hard to get reviews that i need to ask again and again ;)
<Riddell> lionel: no, I'm sure it's not
<Riddell> lionel: anyway, sorry for the mistake, I'll sync it in a few minutes
<lionel> Riddell: no problem :)
<pochu> infinito: from http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-pkg-synopsis, I think it'd be better to remove the first line of your long description in debian/control, since it's the same of the short one.
<pochu> infinito: Other than that, find a MOTU to review & advocate it :)
<infinito> pochu: thats the difficult part, get a MOTU for a review
<infinito> packaging is quite easy, get a review is not so easy...
<pochu> You can mail ubuntu-motu@ too...
<pochu> Or write in capital leters every 10 minutes asking for it until somebody steps up ;)
<infinito> that's the worst thing about motu, you have to be here asking every 10 minutes for getting a review
<infinito> and there a re chances that you dont get any review
<Hobbsee> yes, doesnt help that a lot of the MOTU are taking breaks - or working on other stuff
<infinito> i know MOTUs have other things to do, i understand that
<infinito> it's just that i sometimes feel that getting reviews is extremly difficult
<Hobbsee> it is
<Hobbsee> infinito: ack'd
<Hobbsee> infinito: i've asked a python person to do the other ack - i dont grok python stuff much
<infinito> Hobbsee: thanks!!
<Hobbsee> no problem
<Hobbsee> geser: how good are you on python?
<infinito> i think not getting reviews discourages people to packaga thing for universe
<Hobbsee> this is true
<Hobbsee> it's a cycle.
<infinito> 'cause you try to package, upload, and there waiting for days for a review... and you say "ok, forget about this"
<Hobbsee> i know it's screwed.
<Hobbsee> lionel: how's your python?
<Hobbsee> seems like a lot arent here this week
<lionel> not so good :(
<Hobbsee> right
<pochu> ScottK's is good.
<Hobbsee> he said it wasnt, in the revu report
<pochu> Ah, did he?
<Hobbsee> actually, he said in some areas - but didnt mention which they were
<Hobbsee> [02:27]  [Whois]  ScottK has been idle for 1 day, 10 hours, 47 minutes, and 8 seconds.
<infinito> yeps, ScottK tried to help me a few days ago, but he said he was not really good at python packaging
<Hobbsee> yeah, damn
<Hobbsee> the pythoners are all afk
* Hobbsee wonders if ogra's any good at a python review
<Hobbsee> guess he's busy
<pochu> infinito: have you thought in uploading to Debian too?
<geser> Hobbsee: I'm still learning but I'm improving :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<infinito> pochu: yeps, but not really sure how
<pochu> infinito: I joint #debian-python on OFTC, and asked there. Was easy to find a sponsor :)
<infinito> pochu: OFTC?
<tarzeau> StevenK: you've got a karma of 6. i updated the debian bugstats page. the sponsor info was missing
<tarzeau> StevenK: because the grep (qa page changed) was not up to date
<infinito> pochu: ok, i found it 
<geser> infinito: http://www.oftc.net/oftc/ , another IRC network
<tarzeau> any idea if i can do stats on ubuntu like at http://io.debian.net/~tar/bugstats/ (the infos on top)?
<zul> anyone know what they mean by branch url when registering a new branch for a team in launchpad?
<bluekuja> zul: register it manually
<bluekuja> dont use lp web interface
<zul> so bzr push blah blah?
<bluekuja> just bzr push url
<bluekuja> yeah ;)
<zul> how do I register a product name? ie I want to push to ~/ubuntu-xen/xen-3.1
<bluekuja> zul: you need to create a new project
<bluekuja> and then push to it
<zul> gotcha
<bluekuja> ;)
<zul> arrgh bzr: ERROR: File exists: u'/~ubuntu-xen/xen-3.1/.bzr': mkdir failed: unable to mkdir
<bluekuja> why are you doing it?
<bluekuja> just bzr init
<bluekuja> (if not already created)
<bluekuja> and then when done locally you publish
<zul> already done
<bluekuja> oh :)
<zul> thats the error I get after I push
<bluekuja> strange
<bluekuja> did you commit and then push?
<bluekuja> did you use sftp?
<zul> yep
<bluekuja> zul: https://launchpad.net/projects/?text=ubuntu-xen
<bluekuja> why there are two projects?
<bluekuja> e.g xen-3,1
<bluekuja> and ubuntu-xen
<zul> no idea
<bluekuja> try to push into xen-3.1
<bluekuja> then
<zul> *sigh* nope
<bluekuja> :D
<zul> ill try again later when im not falling asleep
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> ok
<bluekuja> :)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<jrib> hi
<nixternal> MOTU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5616   <- can I get an AMEN? I mean a revu :)
<crimsun> not going to ping frankie on this IRC net first?
<nixternal> already did
<nixternal> I want to have it ready just in case
<sistpoty> hi crimsun and nixternal
<nixternal> hiya sistpoty 
<crimsun> right, is he going to update "soon"?
<crimsun> hi sistpoty 
<nixternal> as of right now, probably not
<nixternal> but he could change his mind in the email, which I am hoping
<nixternal> you know what, he could very well be at debconf as well
<crimsun> it looks fine, but I'm not sure what your intent is given your most recent two statements
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: regarding your core-dev application: can you ping your sponsors for some cheers? ;)
<nixternal> well, if we don't get anything back by the 21st, then we can upload from revu
<crimsun> nixternal: well, it's up to you whether you wish to block on his response if you've already contacted him
<nixternal> we are still young in Gutsy, so I can wait a few days until DIF
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: gpocentek is sleeping now ^^. But he'll do it tomorrow afaik.
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: thanks.
<infinito> please please please!! http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5542 :D
<sistpoty> infinito: I'll take a look
<infinito> sistpoty: thanks!
<nixternal> after the 21st, we can't do any more merges or syncs can we?
<crimsun> you still can.  That means autosyncer stops.
<nixternal> ahh, OK
<sistpoty> infinito: so far only minor stuff: python-gtk2-dev and libgconf2-dev are arch:any, so they shouldn't be in build-dep-indep, but in normal build-deps. python (w.o. version) shouldn't be needed at all, since it gets drawn in by python-support
<mathiaz> Hi. What's the difference between Outstanding and Updated merges in Ubuntu Merge-o-Matic ?
<infinito> sistpoty: so i move python-gtk2-dev and libgconf2-dev to build-deps and remove Build-Depends-Indep?
<sistpoty> infinito: yep
<infinito> sistpoty: ok, should i reupload with those changes?
<sistpoty> infinito: I'm just test-building the package... if you wait a moment, maybe I'll find some more things
<infinito> sistpoty: ok
<bmm> Hi MOTU people, I'm looking for the second advocate for ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5572
<jrib> looking for a reviewer: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5444 .  Thanks
<sistpoty> infinito: W: pyrenamer: script-not-executable ./usr/share/python-support/pyrenamer/pyrenamer/__init__.py
<infinito> sistpoty: should i add a patch using simplesyspatch to fix that?
<sistpoty> infinito: no, just chmod in debian/rules (as you can't fix permissions with patches)
<sistpoty> infinito: also, it seems a little bit strange to me, that you need arch-dependent build-dependencies at all, as nothing really gets compiled. have you tried with e.g. python-gtk2 instead of python-gtk2-dev?
<sistpoty> (also it looks, like the checks during autoconf don't seem to be right, but I guess that upstream should care about that)
<pochu> mathiaz: Outstanding means they haven't been merged since Gutsy opened. Updated means they were merged, but there's another debian version, so it can be merged again.
<infinito> sistpoty: im upstream too, but not very good at autotools... :(
<sistpoty> infinito: ah... :)
<pochu> sistpoty: well, he can fix the permission issue removing the hashbang. Then, lintian won't take it as an script.
<sistpoty> infinito: have you tried using python-distutils yet? (instead of autotools)?
<pochu> And I think that's the correct thing for modules and stuff that isn't intended to be executabled independently.
<sistpoty> pochu: ah, right... and that makes even more sense ... I guess I'm out of practice reviewing :)
<infinito> sistpoty: yeps, but i dont know how to use it very well....
<pochu> sistpoty: well, I had to do that myself for a couple of packages :)
<infinito> pochu, sistpoty: in another package i removed the permission warning adding a pathch that removed #!/bin/python from file, is that correct?
<sistpoty> infinito: I guess so
<pochu> infinito: right, that's the hashbang ;)
<infinito> hehehe
<crimsun> /bin/python would be wrong regardless
<pochu> infinito: it's correct as long as it's not the main program.
<sistpoty> infinito: others than that, the package looks clean (even though my piuparts bailed out with it, but thats a piuparts problem *g*)
<pochu> Yeah, should be /usr/bin/python, or /usr/bin/env python
<infinito> pochu: i know
<infinito> just to lazy to write it here...
<pochu> Haha, cool then :)
<pochu> Irssi autocompletes with the filesystem when I start with / and hit tab :p
<infinito> sistpoty: it seems that i need python-gtk2-dev, if i remove it: "checking for PYGTK... configure: error: Package requirements (pygtk-2.0) were not met"
<sistpoty> infinito: yep, seems like the autotools tests are wrong in this regard (but I don't mind if you leave it in build-deps)
<infinito> sistpoty: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5617
<infinito> reuploaded
* sistpoty looks
<tsmithe> could somebody look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5594 and explain to me which build-depends should be indep and which shouldn't? i still don't quite get it..
<sistpoty> tsmithe: indep should be only stuff that's arch:all and not needed during clean rule
<sistpoty> tsmithe: if in doubt, just put in in normal build-deps (as afaict launchpad doesn't care for indep anyways)
<tsmithe> hmm... since it's a cdbs package, i'm not sure which is and which isn't
<tsmithe> ah ok
<tsmithe> sistpoty, could you give it a revu, then please? (and upload if you're kind and it doesn't need two sponsors :p)
<nixternal> crimsun: you can deny that smb4k request. frankie just updated it :)
<sistpoty> tsmithe: sorry, I need to go to bed soon (I'm now a working citizen)...
<tsmithe> hehe ok :)
<sistpoty> infinito: just for future reference: please list everything you changed diverging from upstream in debian/changelog (e.g. the patch), as the difference between the plain upstream version is especially interesting if anyone else wants to modify your package
<infinito> sistpoty: ok
<sistpoty> infinito: but the package is fine with me, uploading it ;)
<infinito> sistpoty: thats all? i mean, is it uploaded to universe ? or do i need more reviews?
<sistpoty> infinito: it's uploaded, but it still needs to go through ubuntu-archive until it hits universe. and then you should of course watch out for bugs etc. ;)
<luisbg> zakame, ping
<tsmithe> zakame, you around
<tsmithe> damn luisbg you beat me to it
<luisbg> tsmithe, muahahahaha
<infinito> sistpoty: so thank you very much for helping!
<sistpoty> infinito: thanks for contributing! :)
<infinito> sistpoty: one more question... what should i do when there's a new upstream version?
<infinito> upload to revi again?
<infinito> s/revi/revu
<sistpoty> infinito: yes... if you fix a bug as a *maintainer* w.o. a new upstream version, it's easier to attach a debdiff to a bug and assign it to ubuntu-universe-contributors. For new upstream versions, revu is better suited.
<infinito> ok, thanks!
<mok0> I am working on a package that wants to compile python extension modules. Configure wants users to define --with-py-site-packages-dir=<installation dir for python packages>. That does not seem to work well with the python packaging guidelines.
<mr_pouit> is ubuntu-restricted-extras maintained in bzr (I can't find it on LP), or should I upload directly to add xubuntu-restricted-extras binaries?
<xxxxx1> bye all
<sistpoty> mok0: did you talk with upstream about that yet?
* sistpoty needs to go to bed now
<sistpoty> cya folks
<bmm> bye
<bmm> I was talking to sistpoty, I'm still here.
<bmm> If somebody is thinking about advocating something, take a look at my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5572
* bmm can't supress an immature grin when he asks somebody to look at his package
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-19
<ScottK> Just for the record I didn't adovcate infinito's package because I've never dealt with a Python package that didn't use distutils before.  If you're using distutils I'm pretty comfortable with Python packaging.
<pochu> Hey ScottK
* jrib points ScottK at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5444 !  please?
<ScottK> Heya pochu
<ScottK> jrib: A couple of quick comments (looking at the diff it looks pretty good, but I don't have time to actually build it right now).
<ScottK> Change the last line of the description in debian/control to   [that's two leading spaces]  Hompage: URL.
<ScottK> Look at the Debian Maintainer rules.  Gotta run.
<jrib> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> jrib: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<jrib> i'll take a look
<ToHellWithGA> hey yall.  i see the "sudoku" package is maintained by the motu team.  it does not redraw itself when a terminal's dimensions are changed.  should i file that as a bug or contact the author, michael kennett?
<lionel> Hi ToHellWithGA
<lionel> it's always a good idea to fill a bug
<ToHellWithGA> mkay.  thanks lionel 
<sladen> ToHellWithGA: file a bug, *and* contact the upstream author
<gnomefreak> crimsun: i know about a week ago the new flashplugin-nonfree was broken (i never found out what was) 
<gnomefreak> crimsun: do we know if its still broken?
<crimsun> gnomefreak: if you mean upstream's beta 3 (9.0.60.120), then yes, it was and still is utterly broken - a 100% regression.
<gnomefreak> crimsun: ty 
<crimsun> sorry, I should have phrased that as "update 3 - beta"
<gnomefreak> eh 
<crimsun> (since that's how upstream phrases it)
<gnomefreak> true but to me it can be update 25 broken is still broken ;)
<crimsun> yes, people love frothing at the mouth over flash 9 updates
* gnomefreak finds gnash to work fairly well since 0.8.0
<crimsun> project redfish, heh.
<crimsun> may as well just call it the Dell project.
<nixternal> mmm gnash > flash :)
<gnomefreak> nixternal: sometimes. theres some applets gnash wont play
<gnomefreak> atleast i found out today
<nixternal> it plays youtube, good enough for me :)
<gnomefreak> lol
<nixternal> just so I can watch people make idiots out of themselves..that way there I don't feel bad when I do
* gnomefreak has a feeling there other content on that site anyway
<nixternal> I like the technology/make it yourself type videos..they have some cool stuff on there
<etank> does anyone know if python-wmi will make it into the ubuntu universe anytime?
<etank> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/python/python-wmi   <--- link
<pochu> etank: python-wmi | 20070517-2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Packages
<pochu> So it's already in Universe.
<etank> sweet
<etank> not for feisty then though huh
<crimsun> python-wmi | 20070517-2 | gutsy/universe | amd64, i386, powerpc
<crimsun> no, not for 7.04.
<crimsun> request a backport if you're frothing at the mouth.
<etank> crimsun: how do you go about requesting a backport
<pochu> !backports
<ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<pochu> etank: file a bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+filebug
<pochu> (for feisty)
<etank> or better yet i may try to make one myself just for practive :)
<etank> *practice
<etank> i want to learn how to do this stuff anyway
<pochu> You can include it in the backports repo, then.
<pochu> So you learn, and contribute :)
<etank> that would be the awesome
* etank must now learn how to go about backporting :)
<pochu> Night folks
<etank> is the prevu app the recommended way to create a backport?
<Amaranth> yes
<etank> cool
<dmb> mehhh
<somerville32> I can't generate enough entropy to generate a new key :/
<somerville32> Hobbsee: Come help me generate more entropy :P
<Hobbsee> heya
<Hobbsee> somerville32: oh?  how?
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> You could just send me some.
<somerville32> I can't seem to generate enough to create a new key
<somerville32> Is it possible to import a key from the keyserver?
<Hobbsee> a public key, sure
<TheMuso> Public key, yes.
<somerville32> And I suppose I can't use my public key to authenticate with bzr?
<elkbuntu> well no, that wouldnt be logical now, would it
* somerville32 sighs.
<somerville32> I can't generate enough entropy.
<StevenK> somerville32: Run bonnie++ in another terminal.
<jmg> somerville32: are you shelled into the machine generating the keys remotely?
<Amaranth> the mouse is a great source of entropy
<Amaranth> move it around randomly
<Amaranth> oh, he left
<cbx33> ping imbrandon 
<Hobbsee> cbx33: his machine's down, he doesnt seem to be here
<Hobbsee> at least, aurora is
<cbx33> oh man
<Hobbsee> yes.  not so good.
<cbx33> thanks Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee has a couple of sources on there that she wants to upload1
<cbx33> been trying to get hold of him for about a week now
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> how are you anyways?
<Hobbsee> exams, work, ubuntu stuff.  having fun :)
<cbx33> hehe good good
<cbx33> what exams?
<Hobbsee> done physics, got maths and electronics to go
<Hobbsee> (uni exams, whihc is why i wont be in boston)
<cbx33> awesome
* cbx33 loved uni
<dmb> any of you familiar with the gpg thing in launchpad?
<cbx33> I wish I could go back
<dmb> i do gpg --send-key
<cbx33> loved learning new stuff all the live long day
<dmb> but it nrbrt drnfd
<dmb> but it never sends*
<Hobbsee> cbx33: i would, but ubuntu is more interesting than it
<Hobbsee> dmb: did you specify the key ID at the end?
<cbx33> heheh
<dmb> Hobbsee: how do you get the key id?
<dmb> Hobbsee: is that just the email address?
<cbx33> Hobbsee, hmm......it'd be a toss up - I did Acoustical Engineering - we did tonnes of varied stuff
<Hobbsee> dmb: you've created your key, right?
<dmb> Hobbsee: yes
<cbx33> gpg --list-keys
<Hobbsee> dmb: then use gpg --list-keys
<Hobbsee> and pick the keyID of yours
<dmb> Hthere is no keyID column
<dmb> theres pub, uid and sub
<cbx33> second column
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ gpg --list-keys sarah hobbs
<Hobbsee> pub   1024D/7D2BCE85 2006-08-16
<Hobbsee> uid                  Sarah Hobbs (Nickname: Hobbsee) <hobbsee@kubuntu.org>
<Hobbsee> uid                  Sarah Hobbs (Nickname: Hobbsee) <hobbsee@nospammail.net>
<Hobbsee> uid                  Sarah Hobbs (nick: Hobbsee) <hobbsee@ubuntu.com>
<Hobbsee> uid                  Sarah Hobbs (Nickname: Hobbsee) <hobbsee@mailbolt.com>
<cbx33> 7D2BCE85
<Hobbsee> means that 7D2BCE85 is the keyID
<dmb> oh
<dmb> ill try that
<jmg> LongPointyStick?
<Hobbsee> jmg: yes.  The DOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!  variety
* cbx33 runs and hides
<cbx33> jmg tell me when it's safe to come out again
* Hobbsee attacks cbx33 with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<Hobbsee> it's not safe.  it's never safe.
* cbx33 's insides spontaneous become his outsides
<cbx33> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<cbx33> ooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<cbx33> o
<jmg> that sounds like something that should be on everything2
<Hobbsee> hehe
<cbx33> right y'all off for breakfast
<Hobbsee> have fun
<cbx33> oh before I go
<cbx33> actually ya know what
<cbx33> nevermind
<cbx33> I'll figure it out later on
<crimsun> I tell ya, these MOTU making a mess of others' insides...
<cbx33> hey hey crimsun 
* jmg sings the dooooooooooooom song
<cbx33> there's a song too
<dmb> Hobbsee: its weird, because its sent to the ubuntu keyserver, i can query it, but it still says Launchpad could not import your OpenPGP key.
<cbx33> do I have to do a dance?
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> bbl
<dmb> Hobbsee: hold on, now it works
<dmb> guess it was just a delayh
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> it takes a little bit for it all to propogate
<dmb> yup :)
<dmb> can someone resync  the REVU's uploaders keyring?
<crimsun> dmb: running.
<dmb> thanks :D
<crimsun> dmb: finished.
<dmb> ok, thanks
<dmb> if we are making a package, in the changelog file, what do we put, the next ubuntu release name?
<Hobbsee> yes - ie gutsy
<dmb> ok, thanks again :)
<zakame> gutsy mcninja
* Fujitsu shouts at nm-applet to stop segfaulting.
<Hobbsee> hiya Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<Fujitsu> Hi zakame.
<Hobbsee> but segfaulting is fun.
<Fujitsu> I had to configure wpa_supplicant manually :(
<Hobbsee> why didnt you use  knetworkmanager?
<Fujitsu> I haven't done that in well over a year.
<Fujitsu> I considered installing that to see if it worked, but decided that finding an Ethernet cable would be a little annoying.
<Hobbsee> ah, point
<zakame> heya Fujitsu :D
<Fujitsu> It seems to be some gnome-keyring thing, as Gajim had issues when trying to get the password.
* Fujitsu upgrades and tries again.
* zakame is in awe of the (currently) 200-line site engine in harmful.cat-v.org
<bmm> Any MOTU: ccbuild is looking for it's second advocate or new things to work on. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5572
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> morning dholbach
<dholbach> heya geser - how are you doing?
<geser> good
<bryce> heya dholbach :-)
<dholbach> hey bryce!
<dholbach> how's it going?
<bryce> going good
<coNP> Any MOTU: my openbox update package wants to be reviewed: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5589 (obconf also supplied: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5569)
<dholbach> great
<bryce> dholbach: today I figured out how to do packaging of linux-restricted-modules, and successfully built my first one :-)
<dholbach> bryce: rock on :-)
<bryce> (with new fglrx)
<dholbach> hey doko
<coNP> wow
<dholbach> NICE :-)
<doko> good morning
<dholbach> doko: good morning
<Hobbsee> hiya bryce 
<bryce> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> bryce: damn X.  still hasnt crashed.
<bryce> hehe
<bryce> Hobbsee: my gut says your bug is going to be something new, not what we had before
<bryce> but of course, it has to crash before we can be sure.  ;-)
<Hobbsee> bryce: could well be.
<XAngelusX> hi to everyone
<RAOF> I
<shawarma> RAOF: you
<RAOF> shawarma: Hello.  Yes?
* RAOF notices that he accidentally pressed enter :)
<Qball> he he
<shawarma> :-p
<RAOF> I've just realised that the new debian kvm-28 package is not going to appear on MoM or DaD, since our kvm package has an epoch.
<RAOF> Can that be done manually, or am I going to have to work out how to do what they do manually?
* RAOF tries to parse that sentence, and fails.
<RAOF> In other words, will I have to manually do what MoM or DaD do automatically, or can I get *them* to manually do their funky stuff?
* coNP wonders what MoM / DaD can be...
<RAOF> Merge o Matic, and Done and Dusted.
<RAOF> They're automatic Debian->Ubuntu merging thingies.
<coNP> thanks, RAOF 
<RAOF> Ah, I must be hitting that libxul bug.
<RAOF> In democracyplayer news, our divergence from Debian is now a 3 line patch :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Woot!
<RAOF> And just as soon as democracyplayer is installable in Sid, I'll see if the bug our patch fixes is apparent in Sid, too :)
<StevenK> In transition news, I have pretty much single-handedly done the libsnmp9 -> libsnmp10 one.
<RAOF> StevenK: Woot! :)
<StevenK> RAOF: :-)
<RAOF> Do you know what would be super-ultra-cool?  A deskbar plugin that did launchpad bug searches like Debian has for their BTS.
<RAOF> And in "what the hell" news, I've discovered that Sid doesn't have any prebuild ipw3945 modules for it's kernel.
<zakame> is it incremental-pkglist-updates tiem now pls? :P
<XAngelusX> :)
<XAngelusX> please answer my question , which is the cause for this channel?
<jussi01> XAngelusX: this is where the motu's hang out
<jussi01> !motu
<ubotu> motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<jussi01> and also those who help package and want to be motu's and some others
<XAngelusX> mmmmmm
<jussi01> have a look at the topic
<XAngelusX> what interesting thing
<XAngelusX> sorry for my understanding , im spanish one
<jussi01> :)
<XAngelusX> then here is the people that decide which packets programs and other come to de universe and multiverse sourceS?
<mok0> Yes, we're the deciders
<jussi01> yes
<jussi01> hehe
<XAngelusX> :)
<XAngelusX> ok
<jussi01> XAngelusX: its a good idea to be nice to them if you want something.. :D
<XAngelusX> can i have a question for you?
<XAngelusX> yes jeje
<XAngelusX> it maybe strange , it is for xorg-xserver-via drivers
<XAngelusX> if the questions about that is out of place tell me
<jussi01> XAngelusX: you can ask, and we will try answer or point you to the right place to ask :D
<XAngelusX> Do you know if this drivers have relation to the openchrome project ones?
<jussi01> no idea, maybe someone else knows...
<XAngelusX> okis
<mok0> XAngelusX: probably better chance of an answer if you ask at ubuntuforums.org
<XAngelusX> thx but it was only a question without much urgent
<XAngelusX> and
<XAngelusX> this project is complemented with search of bugs ?
<ryanakca> say is it possible to request a sync for something that's in Debian NEW? DebianSyncFreezy is on Thursday, and I don't know when it will get out
<ryanakca> s/say//g
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: yeah.
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: well, i think so
<Hobbsee> and you can say 'i'ts still stuck in the new queue"
<Hobbsee> then again, it'd be under a new package, so it'd be before new package freeze
<imbrandon> ryanakca, i dunno about NEW, but if its in incomming you can
<imbrandon> because the NEW *.dsc's arent published afaik
<Q-FUNK> *nods*
<geser> afaik NEW is not possible as the source packages aren't made available
<geser> ryanakca: no need to hurry as you've time till NewPackagesFreezeUniverse (August 30th) to request the sync
<geser> on Thursday only the automatic syncing stops
<pochu> Heya MOTUs and MOTU padawans!
<geser> Hi pochu
<ryanakca> imbrandon: Hobbsee: if I gave them a link to mentors.debian.net repos with the .dsc?
<ryanakca> (the equivalent of ubuntu's REVU)
<ryanakca> nevermind
<ryanakca> geser: Okies, I'll wait 'till it gets out of NEW, and then I'll ask for a sync
* ryanakca --> school
<imbrandon> ryanakca, yea you can ask them to sync it from mentors too
<imbrandon> fi they will/wont depends on who acks it etc etc etc etc
<imbrandon> but its possible from there
<geser> doesn't the archive admins prefer to sync from Debian as they have fewer checks to do?
<imbrandon> prefer yes, but not impossible
<imbrandon> or unpresidented
<RAOF> Yay!  Apport's back!  I obviously should have gone scrounging through gconf for the re-enable key earlier :/
<pochu> I think it's intentionally disabled.
<RAOF> In Feisty, yes.
<StevenK> Eww. lustre depends on a specific kernel version.
* coNP hopes it's intentionally disabled. :)
<RAOF> Surely it's not intententionally disabled in Gutsy?
<StevenK> Description: Linux kernel patch for the Lustre Filesystem
<StevenK> Oh, duh
<StevenK> Why does it Build-Depend on linux-source-2.6.18, though!?
<pochu> RAOF: I think it is in Gutsy too, until https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apport-crash-duplicates is implemented.
<pochu> It is disabled, I mean.
<StevenK> # We need one kernel source to be present during build to satisfy
<StevenK> #  the lustre build process. This is $(KERNEL_VERSION)
<StevenK> Ohhhhh, *twitch*
<Nafallo> pochu: it's in use here...
<RAOF> pochu: Ah, fair enough.
<jussi01> hmmm, quick question, when is the last date for upload for gutsy? ie. when do i need to have my packages approved by?
<jussi01> wow... dead tonight...
<Hobbsee> er...
<Hobbsee> what type of package?
<Hobbsee> new?
<jussi01> yeah
<Hobbsee> the new package freeze
<Hobbsee> whenever tha tis
<jussi01> hehe... wheres that schedule gone...
<Hobbsee> jussi01: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<jussi01> Hobbsee: thank you :D
<jussi01> hmmm, so that means 19th of august? that late????
<jussi01> wow...
<Hobbsee> likely
<jussi01> ok, well thats all good then :D
<Hobbsee> new packages shouldnt break anything already existing
<jussi01> yeah, just upstream on one of mine is about to release a new on in a couple of weeks...
<jussi01> so I want to get the new version in
<jussi01> :D
<imbrandon> hrm you know what would be good
<imbrandon> a GUI deb package creator
* imbrandon thinks
<TheMuso> imbrandon: You're dreaming!
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> dh_make + cdbs + GUI
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: "checkinstall"
* StevenK runs
<imbrandon> hahahahaha
<jussi01> lol
<ajmitch> imbrandon: keep dreaming
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!
<imbrandon> would give me a reason to try gtk#
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: what?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hello
<zul> imbrandon: you have no reason for gtk# :)
<ajmitch> hi
<xxxxx1> good morning all!
<zul> hey ajmitch 
<imbrandon> ello *
<jussi01> good evening ajmitch
<jord-hole> hello masters of the universe
<jord-hole> Would it be possible to request a package for grails or groovy?
<jussi01> jord-hole: file a bug needs packaging on lauchpad
<jussi01> hello persia
<persia> Hi jussi01.
<jord-hole> jussi01: will do, thanks for the suggestion.
<jussi01> persia: i just emailed you, did you get it?
<jord-hole> Keep up the hard work guys! You are a big reason this distro works so well for so many
<StevenK> persia: Got a tick?
<persia> jussi01: Yes, but I've yet to read it.
<persia> StevenK: Yes, but in 3-5 minutes would be better.  What's up?
<jussi01> jord-hole: if your interested you can package it yourself, the motu's are very helpful with people learning
<StevenK> persia: I'll wait the 5 minutes or so, it's fine. :-)
<persia> jussi01: Sounds good.  Please keep the bug assigned to yourself and add a comment indicating that packaging is deferred for 0.9.6 due to licensing concerns, or something similar.
<jussi01> persia: ok, will do.
* persia waits for new queue items :)
* persia waves tick at StevenK
<jussi01> persia: in a moment i will give you the new revu address for mnemosyne that fixes that copyright issue...
* ajmitch wanders off for sleep
<StevenK> persia: Oh, right, sorry. I was AFK. You did the upload of cyrus21-imapd, which Build-Depends on libsnmp-dev. I was looking libsnmp9 using packages, and it looks like none of the built packages actually end up depending on libsnmp{9,10}.
<persia> StevenK: Hrm.  Thanks for investigating that: it appears I didn't sufficiently.  It can probably be dropped, and a new upload (after looking at the ghosescript issue) is probably a good idea.  Do you have a specific interest in the package?
<StevenK> persia: None, knock yourself out.
<StevenK> persia: Although, checking a build doesn't depend on stuff pulled in via Build-Depends is not a usual check.
<jussi01> persia: next thing in the queue after StevenK: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5626
<persia> StevenK: I was also contemplating dropping it: from what I can tell, cyrus-imapd is now strong enough, and 2.1 buggy enough that it didn't seem like a good recommendation.  What do you think?
<StevenK> cyrus-imapd-2.2, even?
<StevenK> Um. I'm not sure, to be honest.
<persia> StevenK: Perhaps it should be: a package check that looks at the results of $(shlib:Depends) and compares against Build-Depends, and outputs a warning if there are extras would be nice :)
<persia> StevenK: Right.  I thought there was once a dummy cyrus-imapd package that depended on the correct version, but it appears not to be present.
<StevenK> The proper way to check is with the Build-Depends actually installed, so you can see the shlib.local files.
<StevenK> persia: cyrus-imapd == Cyrus 1.5
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  This is perhaps evidence regarding how long it's been since I actually paid much attention to cyrus :)
<StevenK> persia: Heh :-)
<StevenK> persia: My mail server runs Cyrus 2.1
<jussi01> hello dholbach
<herzi> dholbach: did you set up the reverse dns?
<dholbach> herzi: no, I asked somebody else to do it
<herzi> your mail just arrived (subject: codeschrott)
<persia> StevenK: In that case, I'll update the package.
<dholbach> herzi: I have loads of things to do atm
<dholbach> herzi: ah great
<herzi> thanks for doing it though
<StevenK> persia: (On Debian, more's the pity. Ubuntu sparc is planned, I just need to work up the courage.)
<dholbach> herzi: great to hear
* dholbach hugs herzi
* herzi hugs dholbach back (reverse?) ;-)
<dholbach> hehe
<herzi> still waiting for the re-install to finish... (got a new unbroken HD)
<dholbach> did you lose data?
<mok0> pwd
<xxxxx1> hello dholbach 
<mok0> oops wrong term :-)
<herzi> no, I bought a 500 GiB USB drive three weeks ago for backups :-D
<zakame> ooh
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> my first thought was that flash had became large :-P
<zakame> mok0: its `pwn'
<dholbach> hi xxxxx1, hi jussi01
<jussi01> dholbach: nice delayed reaction :P
<dholbach> I'm doing a couple of other things at the same time :)
<jussi01> :)
<zakame> fork()
<zakame> or maybe spawn()?
<persia> jussi01: Now I'm rather confused.  Looking at the package, I'm not finding evidence of things copyright 1996 or 2003 only by the listed copyright holders, and I do find a third AUTHOR not listed in debian/copyright.  Could you lead me a little?
<zakame> :O
<jussi01> hehe... got you all confused...
<zakame> brb, wash(dish);
<jussi01> persia: its because it is actually a rename/update of another program already in the repos....
<persia> jussi01: Ah.  Which program?
<jussi01> gah, cant remember the name now... 1 sec
<mok0> I need to install torque/maui, but I cannot see that anyone has packaged them (recently). Can that really be? 
<herzi> mok0: installing torque should be pretty straight forward
<mok0> Yeah, but I need it packaged
<mok0> It has a weird license
<mok0> probably why it's not in the repo...
<jussi01> persia: memaid-pyqt
<jussi01> persia: I have to hop on a plane soon, so if im gone, email me anything. :D
<persia> jussi01: You've found an interesting situation.  As far as I can tell from looking at the docs, mnemosyne is a rewrite of memaid, using the same pyqt and superkaramba interfaces.  Looking at the code, none of the pages for which the memaid author claims copyright appear to share more than a couple headers and some initialisation with mnemosyne.
<persia> From where did you receive instruction that you needed to indicate copyright from the authors of the compatible predecessor package?
<jussi01> hmmm, cant remember, it was someone on IRC here...
<jussi01> a couple of people even, IIRC, cant remember who.
<jussi01> hmmm... looking at revu, skottk suggested it, but Im almost certain there were others also.
<jussi01> ScottK: even...
<jussi01> :P
<persia> jussi01: Ah.  Hard to say then.
* jussi01 cries...
<jussi01> ok, anyway, my plan boards in 15, i should get to the gate. 
<persia> jussi01: Looking at the REVU comment, I have to agree, that where there is derivation, the original copyright holder needs to be mentioned, but in this case, I think all the files were replaced.  If you have time on the plane, try some diffs, and ping me when you get back north.
<jussi01> see you later all. persia, I will be away for probably a week. maybe shorter though.
<jussi01> persia: sure. 
<jussi01> good night all
<ScottK> persia: I didn't compare the code.  I told him to do that based on the statement that it was a derived work.
<persia> ScottK: Makes perfect sense.  I think this is a odd situation, as it appears that one of the primary contributors for memaid disagreed with a decision to take it commercial, and rebuilt a free version.  It needs more research, which we'll leave to the packager :)
<elkbuntu> keybuk is getting really good at flooding planet, isnt he
<Nightrose> can a MOTU give http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5487 some love please? ;-)
<pochu> Nightrose: Add a blank line at the end of the .desktop file
<pochu> +Categories=Qt;KDE;Utility;
<pochu> \ No newline at end of file
<Nightrose> douh - thx pochu
<Nightrose> pochu: done
<polopolo> hello all, do I need to go in the GNOME envirnment to devolp a gnome package, or can I do it in kubuntu?
<zul> gotta love the drive bys
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<xxxxx1> hello DarkSun88 
<leonel> je
<dmb> little problem
<dmb> before, i uploaded something to revu that got rejected, because i left unstable in the changelog
<dmb> i fixed that, and it won't let me upload a replacement
<dmb> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of inspircd_1.1.8-1.dsc
<dmb> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
<dmb>       For the official Debian upload queues, the dcut(1) utility can be used
<dmb>       to remove stale files from unsuccessful uploads.
<dmb> how can i fix that?
<bluekuja> dmb, need to ping a REVU admin
<dmb> bluekuja: is there a list of them?
<bluekuja> dmb, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU?action=show&redirect=REVU
* dmb pings siretart or raphink 
<dmb> or ajmitch :) if any of you are here
<ibrown> hey, i have a quick question in regards to the "motu" i guess.  I just switched from slack -> ubuntu-feisty 64.  and i'm noticing there's some things i'd like to change, and thought this isn't the right version for me.  for example.  versions: glib-2.0 = 2.12.11 i'd like that glib-2.0 >= 2.4.0.  So i'm thinking there's a more "bleeding" edge version of ubuntu to do this dev work on?
<LaserJock> dmb: what do you need?
<zul> ibrown: install gutsy and this channel isnt for support either
<dmb> LaserJock: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of inspircd_1.1.8-1.dsc
<dmb> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
<dmb>       For the official Debian upload queues, the dcut(1) utility can be used
<dmb>       to remove stale files from unsuccessful uploads.
<dmb> it got rejected because i left in unstable in the changlog of the package
<dmb> now it won't let me upload the fix
<LaserJock> dmb: right, give me a sec and I'll clear it out
<dmb> ok, thank you
<LaserJock> dmb: done
<dmb> ok
* dmb tries
<dmb> thanks
<dmb> LaserJock: do I have to get one of you every time there needs to be a change on the package based on reviews?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> we just have a few checks
<LaserJock> source only upload and versioning I think are the only ones
<dmb> oh
<LaserJock> actually, I'm not sure if versioning is even checked
<LaserJock> it looks like your first upload failed because you weren't in the keyring yet
<dmb> is it supposed to send a password through email?
<dmb> LaserJock: ah, that could be it, because i uploaded it while it was still syncing
<LaserJock> no, it won't send a password
<LaserJock> you can get a password by doing a password recovery on revu.tauware.de
<dmb> oh
<polopolo> Hello all, do I need GNOME to package GNOME packages?
<leonel> only his dependencies
<dholbach> in most cases you need GNOME to properly test GNOME packages
<shawarma> ajmitch: Are you planning to do the samba merge?
<dmb> i have a stupid question, what distribution are we supposed to put in?
<polopolo> dholbach: So no problem if I package gnome programs in KDE?
<dmb> in debian, there was unstable and stable
<dmb> do we just put gusty for that?
<shawarma> dmb: the current development release, i.e. gutsy.
<shawarma> dmb: Not gusty. :)
<dmb> oops
<dmb> shawarma: is it ok that lintian says this:
<dmb> E: inspircd_1.1.8-1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy
<shawarma> dmb: That's fine.
<dmb> should I add an override or is it ok to leave it?
<shawarma> dmb: You can grab lintian from gutsy to "fix" it.
<dmb> ah
<shawarma> dmb: Don't add an override.
<dmb> ok
<polopolo> !debian
<ubotu> Ubuntu and Debian are closely related. Ubuntu builds on the foundations of Debian architecture and infrastructure, with a different community and release process. See http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/relationship - Remember, !repositories meant for Debian should NOT be used on Ubuntu!
* LaserJock announces he is now an Ubuntu Core Developer!
<shawarma> \o/ LaserJock !
<bluekuja> congrats LaserJock !!!!!!!1
<bluekuja> :)
<AndyP> LaserJock: congratulations!
* LaserJock does a dance around the lab
<bluekuja> lol
<leonel> congrats  LaserJock 
<bluekuja> LaserJock, you rock :)
<LaserJock> not exactly
<RainCT> LaserJock: gratz :)
<bluekuja> hehehe
<LaserJock> I've just put a lot of time into it
<LaserJock> ;-)
<bluekuja> I know :)
* LaserJock buys everybody a virtual drink
<bluekuja> :D
<AndyP> cheers :)
<AndyP> LaserJock: so you're going to fix all the edubuntu bugs now? :)
<LaserJock> AndyP: of course ;-)
<AndyP> awesome :)
<pochu> LaserJock: congrats!
<dmb> im am totally craving this right now:
<dmb> http://www.eatfoo.com/files/images/20060703_-_fried_chicken/IMG_6221.jpg
<jrib> ScottK (or anyone who is interested): I emailed upstream for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5444 and amir told me that he's still maintaining the code but nothing has come up recently.  Should I change the copyright to 2003-2007?  The last check-in seems to have been made a year ago
<Lure> LaserJock: congrats on ore-dev!
<Lure> core-dev even ;-)
<jekil> anyone can review please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5443
<pochu> jekil: in debian/control, in the description, add a blank line (an space and a dot, ' .'), and another space to Homepage's indenting ('  Homepage:')
<pochu> So it is
<pochu>  bla.
<pochu>  .
<pochu>   Homepage: ...
<ScottK> LaserJock: Congratulations.
<ScottK> jrib: In that case, I think I'd just leave it.  You've documented the copyright claims that the author has made and I think that's sufficient.
<ScottK> jekil: Not that that's two leading spaces before Homepage:
<ScottK> Not/Note
<jekil> pochu, ScottK: thank you, i have uploaded a new with your suggestion http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5638
<jrib> ScottK: sounds good, thanks for the comments
<ScottK> jekil: You need to have the copyright years for upstream in debian/copyright.
<ScottK> jekil: You might, rather than using help2man to statically generate the man page that you then have to redo manually each time you update the package, consider building it automatically in debian/rules when the binary package is built (this is not required, but would be nice to have).
<ScottK> jekil: I don't have time for a thorough review just now, but that's what I see based on a quick review of the diff.
<jekil> ScottK: i consider it, but the format of help can't originate a good man page
<ScottK> jekil: Did you have to edit it then?
<jekil> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> jekil: In that case take out the bit in the man page comments about don't edit manually and nevermind about automatically generating it.
<jekil> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> jrib: I re-advocated your new upload.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-20
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<tonyyarusso> Oh hey, whatdya know.  I could have said it here after all ;)
<owh> Hobbsee: You are coordinating the revolution of MOTU's across the world and need to work on your karma.
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> owh: i wish.
<owh> Hobbsee: One day at a time...
<owh> Hobbsee: You could of course just point to the "N/A" and "forget".
<Hobbsee> it's a little late for that - i actually have a standard N/A for all tuesdays.
<Hobbsee> but i dont have a specific N/A for that day
<Hobbsee> and even the specific N/A's the boss is refusing to acknowledge.
<crimsun> you've been evicted and must find an apt?
<RAOF> Say you're marking 1st year algebra tests.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<owh> Hobbsee: Of course, your boss might be here watching us :)
<Hobbsee> woudlnt surprise me at all, he does no work.
<StevenK> Hah
<Hobbsee> or, the only work he does is to just attemtp to get out of more work.
<StevenK> Hmph.
<ajmitch> like you attempting to get out of work on tuesday?
* StevenK tries to get a <div> in HTML to be center aligned, and is failing.
<owh> StevenK: text-align:centre; or margin:auto;
<owh> StevenK: But the margins only works if the width is known.
<owh> s/known/specified/
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: that's stocktake.  not *all* work.
<ajmitch> but stocktake is fun!
<StevenK> ajmitch: You try it. It isn't. :-)
<ajmitch> I've done it before
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it so isnt.
<RAOF> It looks like mplayer doesn't use a patch system, and just incorporates patches into the packaging bzr branch.  Is this right?  I'm looking at incorporating a patch to mplayer's video output which allows it to use Compiz's "video" plugin.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: unless i'm making people's faces black, with the dust, etc, from my hands.
<owh> Hobbsee: The Dutch saying is: "Je snor drukken.", which translates directly into "Pressing your mustache.", which means "Find a corner and hide."
<Hobbsee> lol
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Right, using a patch system with bzr is useless.
<RAOF> Well, maybe, I suppose.
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Why have two patch systems/
<RAOF> Well, I was thinkning that they wouldn't actually be maintaining a parallel mplayer source tree, and it'd be easier to remove patches that no longer apply.
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice if bzr loom appeared as specified in NoMoreSourcePackages, but this is the best we have for now.
<RAOF> So, anyway.  In order to actually work on mplayer, I've branched.  I'd now patch it here, add a changelog entry, push the bzr branch to launchpad, and then link that branch in a bug?
<Fujitsu> That's right.
<Fujitsu> I don't think anyone has actually used this method on mplayer before, as the only people to touch it have been in ubuntu-dev.
<RAOF> Oh, and probably subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to it?  Or motu-media?
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Don't bother, motumedia gets notified of all mplayer bugs.
<RAOF> So just link it in a bug.  Check.
<Fujitsu> Yep.
* AndyP catches up on lots of backlog and emails and sighs
<AndyP> there'll be lots of wiki docs and guides to change now
<Hobbsee> AndyP: it's not final
<AndyP> Hobbsee: that's even worse, they'll have to be changed for the change and when the change gets unchanged or rechanged. or something.
<Hobbsee> heh
<owh> AndyP: We're talking about it right now in #launchpad :)
* AndyP noses in
<StevenK> AndyP: Are you still around?
<AndyP> StevenK: yep
<AndyP> only just caught up on #launchpad :)
<StevenK> AndyP: You did the nagios-plugins merge. I've been looking at packages that Build-Depend on libsnmp{9,}-dev. nagios-plugins seems to Build-Depend on it, but not make use of the library. I suspect it only uses libnet-snmp-perl, in which case libsnmp-dev isn't required.
<StevenK> AndyP: Does that make sense?
<AndyP> StevenK: yeah, would you like me to test it out without the build-dep and remove it if necessary?
<StevenK> AndyP: I think that's a good first step.
<crimsun> hmph, I just noticed that anything inside ``s in a bzr commit string is ignored
<StevenK> crimsun: Could the shell be blamed?
<crimsun> I think so
<lifeless> blame the shell
<lifeless> you know you want to
<Hobbsee> hi lifeless 
<zakame> do want
<AndyP> StevenK: you're right, it builds fine without the libsnmp*-dev build-dep
<StevenK> AndyP: Just as I suspected.
<StevenK> AndyP: You're not a MOTU, right?
<AndyP> StevenK: i'm not, no
<AndyP> maybe one day :)
<StevenK> AndyP: If you e-mail a debdiff for nagios-plugins, I'm happy to upload it.
<AndyP> StevenK: http://andrewprice.me.uk/dropoff/nagios-plugins-fix-buildeps.debdiff
<StevenK> AndyP: Okay, thanks.
<AndyP> no problem... i'll tell the debian maintainer about it too
<StevenK> AndyP: Great. I'll upload it in a little while, and tell you when I'm done.
<AndyP> StevenK: great, thanks
<crimsun> I wonder if it would be feasible to require authentication for direct binary deb downloads from LP
<crimsun> say, require ~motu or some subset
<crimsun> -> bug 60928
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 60928 in acroread "Acroread 7.0.8 does not start" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/60928
<StevenK> crimsun: Ouch. Why?
<crimsun> we have people grabbing binaries directly from the LP source package build links, then filing bugs on them
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> stupid people.  ban them from the bugtracker.
<StevenK> crimsun: But what's to stop them downloading the .debs from the archive?
<crimsun> they don't need to be stopped.
<crimsun> the bug is an example of a package that doesn't exist in "the archive" - it was removed due to possible redistributability issues.
<StevenK> Ahhhh.
<StevenK> Bring that up in #launchpad?
<crimsun> sure, when the dust from BugWorkflow has settled a bit :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: acroread?
<crimsun> LaserJock: yes
* micahcowan congratulates LaserJock on making core. :)
<LaserJock> thanks
<micahcowan> And Hobbsee, belatedly, if I never got you yet.
<Hobbsee> micahcowan: :)
<LaserJock> alright, I'm off
<Hobbsee> bye LaserJock!
<StevenK> AndyP: nagios-plugins uploaded. Thanks!
<AndyP> StevenK: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=429778 *high five*
* StevenK high fives AndyP back
<owh> Hobbsee: You could also just treat the stocktake literally and take some :)
<Hobbsee> owh: hah
<StevenK> They tend to frown on that.
* owh wonders why.
<ajmitch> she wouldn't have to turn up to work again
<owh> It would fix a few problems with time management issues.
<StevenK> Heh, yes.
<owh> So all that time we spent on the new LP feature seems to have been a mis-understanding?
<Fujitsu> It seems that nobody is sure what's actually happening.
<owh> Fujitsu: Well BjornT seemed pretty definite about things in #launchpad.
<Fujitsu> BjornT is the lead Malone dev, so he's probably most right.
<owh> As I see it, the privileges phrase in the email was incorrect. All flags can be set by anyone, except for Triaged and WontFix, which can only be set by bug-squad. The ToDo is to be implemented at a future date and we discussed how that needs to be available to all, not just ubuntu-dev team members.
<owh> You can skip Triaged/WontFix and set it to InProgress.
<owh> The more up to date sequence is here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bjorn/bug-workflow.png
<owh> Hobbsee: Is that how you remember it?
<Hobbsee> seems so.  logs are there
* owh just thought that a summary would be a good idea :)
<Admiral_Chicago> hehe, great image owh 
* owh just copied the link, had nothing to do with the photo :)
<StevenK> AndyP: Oh drat! Your debdiff had the release set to feisty
<StevenK> AndyP: Re-uploaded.
<dholbach> good morning
<AndyP> StevenK: argh, -ENOSLEEP, sorry about that
<StevenK> AndyP: It's okay. :-)
<LucidFox> if upstream provides a .desktop file and installs it in /usr/share/applnk, do I still need a debian/menu file?
<crimsun> well, for the Debian source package, yes
<dholbach> I wouldn't make that mandatory
<jekil> anyone can review please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5638
<ajmitch> sigh, gnash kills my box
<ajmitch> where kill means massive multi-GB memory usage
<DarkMageZ> ajmitch, which version of gnash? the gutsy version 8 isn't bad
<ajmitch> the gutsy version
<ajmitch> so yes, I'd say it's bad
<crimsun> neat
<DarkMageZ> hmm. link to flash object?
<ajmitch> took all of a few seconds from installing it to it causing large amounts of thrashing
<ajmitch> heh
<crimsun> that's nearly on par2 with the proprietary Flash 9 Update 3 beta, which is a 100% regression :-)
<crimsun> s/2//
<RAOF> Gnash works kinda ok for me, too.
* ajmitch is of course unable to even login via ssh right now
<ajmitch> to top it off, for some reason my laptop claims it has no battery
<crimsun> Hobbsee took it
<ajmitch> probably
<Hobbsee> heh
<polopolo> Hello all, if I want to test a package, must I test it in ubuntu stable, or unstable?
<RAOF> Ubuntu isn't quite like debian in that respect.
<RAOF> (In that there are about 4 currently supported "stable"s)
<Hobbsee> polopolo: gutsy, usually
<RAOF> polopolo: But any new package, or change to a package, you'd want to test in Gutsy (which is currently the equivalent of Ubuntu unstable).
<RAOF> Unless you're trying something quite specific, I suppose, like testing a package that's going to be a Feisty, Edgy, or Dapper update/security package.
<LucidFox> when I package software not present in either Ubuntu or Debian, I should file a [needs-packaging]  bug on LP, correct?
<RAOF> Yup, you can.
<polopolo> ah ok
<RAOF> LucidFox: And you probably want to file a Debian ITP for it, too :)
<LucidFox> ITP?
<micahcowan> Make sure and assign the needs-packaging bug to yourself, as well (it should also have a "needs-packaging" tag, in addition to the subject head)
<micahcowan> Intent To Package.
<LucidFox> ah
<RAOF> The equivalent for Debian.
<RAOF> In fact, if you want to you can just file the ITP, get it into Debian, and ignore packaging it for Ubuntu entirely.
<RAOF> But, like me, you probably actually *use* Ubuntu, and so packaging for Debian is kinda a secondary concern :)
<micahcowan> And then ask for it to be sync'd, after it's made it into Debian unstable.
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.  Auto sync is getting turned off soon, isn't it.
<LucidFox> well, I don't have Debian, so I can't test it there
<man-di> if someone needs Debian sponsoring, just mail me the link to the .dsc file: konqueror@gmx.de
<LucidFox> Hmm.
<micahcowan> LucidFox, you can still do some testing via pbuilder (sets up a chroot environment, with a basic install of whichever flavor you wish to test against).
* ajmitch should get some stuff into debian in the next couple of weeks
<RAOF> LucidFox: You might want to try installing Debian, it's quite plesant :)
<LucidFox> E: kink_0.2.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy
<LucidFox> N:
<LucidFox> N:   You've specified an unknown `target distribution' for your upload in
<LucidFox> N:   the debian/changelog file.
<RAOF> Yeah, it's gonna say that.
<micahcowan> RAOF, Hey! No advertising the competition! ;)  (jk, of course)
<RAOF> Well, REVU is going to say that, 'cause it's still running a Dapper version of lintian.
<LucidFox> ah
<LucidFox> well, here's the upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5644
<RAOF> Oh, the installer is pretty much the only thing that's plesant about it :).  It doesn't even have prebuilt ipw3945 modules!
<micahcowan> My, Hobbsee, you look very... poinly, today! :)
* LongPointyStick attacks micahcowan with the pointy end.
<micahcowan> Not the poinly end? :(
* LongPointyStick then attacks micahcowan with the other end, the *very* pointy end.
<micahcowan> /nick LongDoubleSidedPointyStick
<Hobbsee> anyway, the pictures from UDS have proven that i'm not pointy.
* Hobbsee is person-shaped.
<crimsun> with a point.  And thus, still pointy.
<Hobbsee> no no.  no point
<Hobbsee> had i had a nice sharp point, i would have used it on a few people
<Hobbsee> as it was, i ended up just resorting to brute force bashing them up.  
<Hobbsee> or poking them in the ribs
<TheMuso> Evening folks.
<Hobbsee> hiya TheMuso 
* Hobbsee ponders attaching a nice long point to her fingers, for UDS-boston+1
<ajmitch> sure :)
<ajmitch> I won't be there, so go ahead!
<crimsun> neither will I!  Going ahead seconded!
<crimsun> TheMuso: sorry about the spew.  Triaging.
<TheMuso> crimsun: ?
* Yagisan waves
<crimsun> TheMuso: alsa-driver bug triaging is generating a lot of bug email (spew).
<TheMuso> oh
<TheMuso> that
<crimsun> shouldn't be much longer.
<crimsun> I have about 20 more, and then I need to write a couple cluefiles for bughelper.
<crimsun> and then it's off to spec out the multichannel asoundrc hook for asoundconf-ui while I await my flight.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Where you will sleep. Right?
<TheMuso> :)
<crimsun> pssht
<crimsun> now that I've read some helpful tips from linuxpowertop.org, it's $EDITOR+Qt 4 Designer all the way
<Hobbsee> crimsun: where are you flying now?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: Dallas
<Hobbsee> nice
<pochu> MOrning!
<LucidFox> what's the figgerence between debuild and dpkg-buildpackage?
<LucidFox> *difference
<Hobbsee> the former is a wrapper of the latter
<LucidFox> W: inkblot source: configure-generated-file-in-source config.log
<LucidFox> but config.log is present in upstream
<LucidFox> and make clean removes it
<LucidFox> (in rules)
<Ademan> isn't there some debian policy about not having any user interaction during installation?
<RAOF> I don't think so, at least a couple of packages want some pre-configuring.  Unless they're not policy compiant :)
<StevenK> There is.
<StevenK> All prompting and such, must be done by debconf, and the config/postinst scripts must cope if debconf is set to be non-interactive.
<LucidFox> uploaded: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5645
<Nightrose> for a MOTU in REVU-mood: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5647 ;-)
<coNP> MOTUs, Please review: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5589
<RAOF> Wheee!  It's a non-stop revu fest! :)
<Hobbsee> Nightrose: oh ewww.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
* RAOF is intrigued.
<Hobbsee> upstream has only done a svn checkout.  bad upstream.
<Nightrose> Hobbsee: jea there were several bad things with the upstream release
<RAOF> Have they gone so far as to actually run autogen?
<RAOF> Ah, non-autotools.
<Hobbsee> Nightrose: commented :)
<Nightrose> thx Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> RAOF: are you a MOTU or not?  i cant remember
<RAOF> Nah :)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: right.  
<Hobbsee> coNP: why?
<Hobbsee> coNP: if you're sending openbox to debian...
<Hobbsee> then why do you need a review for ubuntu?
<coNP> Oh. Then I don't need one?
<coNP> Okay, thanks, Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> coNP: nope.
<coNP> I am quite bad at understanding processes for a while ...
<Hobbsee> coNP: i'm assuming tollef will look it over
<Nightrose> Hobbsee: and when I've got the patch - what should I do with it - send it to the upstream author?
<coNP> O.K.
<Hobbsee> coNP: but you need to version it for debian and such, and say that it's a NMU
<Hobbsee> Nightrose: yeah, that's a good idea.
<Nightrose> Hobbsee: ok will do that
<Hobbsee> Nightrose: stick it into debian/patches
<Hobbsee> make sure you have an includes for simple-patchsys.mk - not sure of the syntax, in debian/rules
<Nightrose> k
<Nightrose> thx
<Hobbsee> Nightrose: E: klogshow; No manual page for binary klogshow.
<RAOF> Hm.  I think bzr may have stalled.  It probably shouldn't take > 30min to push an mplayer branch to launchpad :)
<Nightrose> Hobbsee: I was told that when klogshow -help doesn't give any output it's ok to not have one
<StevenK> RAOF: strace it?
<Hobbsee> Nightrose: right
<Hobbsee> oh linda....
<Hobbsee> what's your take on taht?  :P
<Nightrose> ;-)
* Hobbsee pokes StevenK 
<StevenK> Hum?
<Hobbsee> [21:07]  <Hobbsee> oh linda....
<Hobbsee> [21:07]  <Hobbsee> what's your take on taht?  :P
<StevenK> Oh right.
<StevenK> I'd have to check Policy
<StevenK> "If no manual page is available, this is considered as a bug and should be reported to the Debian Bug Tracking System ..."
<Hobbsee> darn.  i cant upload kbib.
<Hobbsee> nor kopete-otr
<StevenK> Why not?
<Hobbsee> one doesnt build, and the other has a shared libraries warning
<Hobbsee> StevenK: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5553
<StevenK> Whee
<StevenK> Ah. That's a Linda bug.
<StevenK> Bug #361734
<StevenK> Shush now ,ubotu
<Q-FUNK> bug 361734
<Hobbsee> StevenK: right, so ignore it?
<RAOF> Wow.  Bzr *hasn't* stalled.  It's just taking >30min to push a branch to LP.
<Q-FUNK> no botu?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Yes. I haven't spent the four hours or so it'd take me to fix it.
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<StevenK> Linda doesn't like packages that ship shared libraries as well as binaries.
<StevenK> Patches welcome. :-P
<Hobbsee> :P
<Hobbsee> hi spam
<Fujitsu> RAOF: mplayer can take 3 or 4 hours from here.
<Fujitsu> Which is really stupid.
<Fujitsu> Because it has to upload the whole lot. bzr should be more intelligent and copy the existing branch or something similar, really.
<Fujitsu> (this is only for new branches; existing branches just get the diffs pushed)
<RAOF> We just need jml to finish his bzr+ssh support :)
<Hobbsee> apachelogger: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5596 pleasefix.
<Hobbsee> apachelogger: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5525 too.  same thing.  pleasefix.
<Hobbsee> Nightrose: were you planning to upload the new version?
<apachelogger> d'oh!
<Nightrose> Hobbsee: yea sorry - takes a little - having lunch ;-)
<Hobbsee> Nightrose: no problem
* Hobbsee really should be studying.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: do you have a problem with me calling an arbitary REVU day?
<Nightrose> Hobbsee: will ping you when new version is up
<Hobbsee> this list is getting insane.
<apachelogger> mhhhh revu day
<apachelogger> ensure to notify me, so I can upload whole kde-apps :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<afflux> any merges left for me to do?
<RAOF> Plenty :)
<RAOF> afflux: 74 at last count, according to dad.
<bashelier> effraie: see dad.dunnewind.net ;)
<bashelier> oups
<bashelier> s/effraie/afflux/
<afflux> yes, I saw that. Just wanted to know if someone wants me to steal one of his.
<apachelogger> Hobbsee: just dputed the changes
<Hobbsee> apachelogger: cool
<jrib> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5619 needs one more reviewer if anyone has a minute.  It's a python module
<mok0> a quick question: what is the mode of /var/cache/pbuilder/build supposed to be? Shouldn't I be able to run pbuilder as "myself"?
<Fujitsu> mok0: Normal users can't chroot, so no.
<Hobbsee> mok0: no
<mok0> So its: sudo pbuilder ... ?
<RAOF> Yup
<mok0> But even with sudo I get permission denied
<StevenK> Can you pastebin the entire thing?
<mok0> find: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//19992: Permission denied
<mok0> find: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//19992: Permission denied
<mok0> Obtaining the cached apt archive contents
<mok0> find: /var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache/: Permission denied
<StevenK> Can you pastebin ls -lh /var/cache/pbuilder ?
<mok0> That was doing "sudo pbuilder update"
<mok0> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  16K 2007-06-20 13:43 aptcache
<mok0> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  67M 2007-06-20 13:47 base.tgz
<mok0> drwxr-sr-x 2 root root 4,0K 2007-06-20 13:52 build
<mok0> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4,0K 2007-03-03 00:04 pbuildd
<mok0> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4,0K 2007-03-03 00:04 pbuilder-mnt
<mok0> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4,0K 2007-03-03 00:04 pbuilder-umlresult
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<mok0> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4,0K 2007-03-03 00:04 result
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b %mok0!*@*]  by Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> mok0: please use a pastebin.....
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+z]  by Hobbsee
<StevenK> Which is what I said.
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-b %mok0!*@*]  by Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> mok0: then you ask what it is, instead of pasting...
<Hobbsee> !pastebin | mok0 
<ubotu> mok0: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<mok0> I thought it was jargon
<StevenK> No, jargon for pasting is something like clag. :-P
* Hobbsee wonders where you've been...it's standard across most irc channels, including #ubuntu
<StevenK> Mmmm, clag.
<mok0> Hobbsee: I'm new to IRC
<Hobbsee> ahh
* Fujitsu cowers in the corner away from Hobbsee.
<mok0> Ok, I am trying pastebin :-)
<Hobbsee> :)
<mok0> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26410/
<StevenK> It's comparable to mine, except my build dir isn't setgid
<mok0> I changed it to setgid
<StevenK> I don't see the point of that.
<mok0> ... because the directories under build were also 750
<Hobbsee> apachelogger: running linda on the binary outputs lots of fun stuff
<Hobbsee> er, binaries
<mok0> I tried again to do "sudo pbuilder update", it says "find: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//20607: Permission denied"
<StevenK> apachelogger: RPATH is bad, mmmkay
<StevenK> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rpath_%28linking%29
<mok0> It's really frustrating: I am following the pbuilder user manual on a pristine system and am getting all these errors
<mok0> :-(
<StevenK> mok0: I can't recall getting errors like that.
<asac> hey, anyone has a amd64 pure gutsy install?
<mok0> StevenK: some help
<StevenK> asac: A chroot, if that helps.
<asac> hmmm ... no chroot i have as well :)
<afflux> asac, what do you mean by pure?
<afflux> I use gutsy amd64...
<asac> i ment ... not in chroot :)
<afflux> then yes, I have *g*
<asac> afflux: cool ... wanna test flashplugin-nonfree on amd64 for me?
* Hobbsee_ wonders how setting setgid is following the manual?
* Hobbsee_ kicks her connection
<asac> it works well on feisty ... but in my gutsy chroot it doesnt work
<StevenK> Heh
<asac> afflux: ok wait a few minutes
<afflux> asac: yep
<mok0> Hobbsee_: that was an attempt to _solve_ the problem
<StevenK> mok0: Try adding --debug to your pbuilder call?
<asac> afflux: afflux please install http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/flash-amd64/nspluginwrapper_0.9.91.4-2ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<Hobbsee> ScottK: dont blast heno too much- he's only the messenger
<mok0> StevenK: good idea --- I am reinstalling it tvm
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'm reading the scrollback on #launchpad currently.  
<Hobbsee> ScottK: cool
* ScottK hasn't actually blasted yet.  You should see me blasting.
<asac> afflux: then ... install both flash debs in the same directory ... either first -common ... or both at once
<StevenK> ScottK: Do you have scrollback for -devel, too?
<asac> afflux: and maybe uninstall mozilla-plugin-gnash (if you use it)
* ScottK isn't to happy ATM about "we've discussed this for a year and it's time to do something" when it appears it was all navel gazing.
<asac> afflux: might be that you need to run apt-get install -f after installing nspluginwrapper 
<ScottK> StevenK: No.  I'm not on that currently.  I can look at the logs I suppose.
<asac> afflux: as it wants ia32 libs
<asac> afflux: just let me know :)
<afflux> asac: is it important that dpkg -l | grep nspluginwrapper shows me this version installed: 0.9.91.2-1ubuntu5~janvitus?
<afflux> (I think I once used some howto from ubuntuforums.org for flash in x64)
<asac> afflux: you have to install mine
<StevenK> ScottK: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/26413/
<asac> afflux: better purge it first
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It turns out it's all moot for the moment I guess
* ScottK looks
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yes...i'm not sure how much was originally badly communicated, vs how much of it was changed due to the response today
<ScottK> StevenK: Flaming Death is a good thing appropriately used.
<StevenK> Heh
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes.  The joys of depending on proprietary tools developed in secret.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Wow, that's an impressive maintainer. It really said `none'?
<StevenK> Careful, you'll set Fujitsu off again
<StevenK> Fujitsu: That's right.
<Hobbsee> yeah, well.  it still searches more effectively than bugzilla.  and we tend to get things done faster than we would thru bugzilla.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: That's what I was thinking... I've given up now.
<StevenK> There are some things I like about Launchpad, and some things I don't.
<StevenK> I suspect Fujitsu feels the same, he is just more vocal than I am
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It's got advantages and disadvantages.  I miss bug dependencies.  I'd feel better if it were being developed transparently.
<Fujitsu> Bug deps would be nice, but there was a thread on that a while back and it was largely rejected for no particularly good reason.
<StevenK> Hrm. I don't know if I should be comforted by the -unsafe in the command line for this build.
<afflux> asac: works without installing any "apt-get install -f". Not sure about the ia32 libs, since I think I installed some libraries by hand some time ago (downloaded the i386 packages and extracted the libaries to lib32 instead of lib)
<asac> afflux: ok ... so nspluginwrapper is installed? ... flash debs as well?
<afflux> yes
<asac> does it work?
<asac> in firefox?
<afflux> yes. at least http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/welcome/ only complains about not having installed the shockwave player. adobe flash player works.
<asac> how about youtube?
<afflux> checking
<afflux> yep, works
<asac> afflux: thanks a lot :)
<afflux> sound also uses alsa
<asac> ... why is it broken in chroot
<asac> everything else works in there
* ScottK supposes he should sit back, relax, and be happy he's no longer a Xandros user: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8TjLIYxP1A
<asac> hmm
<StevenK> ScottK: ENOFLASH, what's that of?
<ScottK> A now former Xandros user expressing his displeasure over their patent deal with MS using a shotgun on all the Xandros products he no longer uses.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Not even Gnash?
<StevenK> Oh nice!
<StevenK> Fujitsu: My main desktop is an amd64, and I don't care enough.
<StevenK> ScottK: It isn't imbrandon, right?
* StevenK hides.
<ScottK> StevenK: Hard to say.  I doubt he was a Xandros user.
* StevenK wonders if ScottK got what he was implying
<ScottK> StevenK: Just that Xandros is pretty much a newbie distro for mixed MS/Linux environments. Doesn't seem like his cup of tea.
<StevenK> Then you didn't.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: It works fine on YouTube videos now, so I use it.
<Nightrose> Hobbsee: new upload at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5653 - hope that's the correct way to do the patch - wasn't sure about it
* StevenK is watching it
<StevenK> I won't say how
<StevenK> Oh Jesus, that's a big shotgun
<mok0> I was called away... the pbuilder thing... it works for root, not using sudo
<ScottK> StevenK: I think I get it now.
<ScottK> mok0: What pbuilder thing?
<ScottK> mok0: BTW, you've got comments on all your packages now...
<mok0> ScottK: Thanks!
<StevenK> Heh, the Credits are cute
<StevenK> "If you downloaded this illegally, you owe me one jelly doughnut"
<ScottK> mok0: Despite the comments about work yet to be done, your packages are very good for someone  who just got here.
* RAOF finds that gnash actually plays that not too badly :)
<Fujitsu> I haven't had problems with it, other than some buttons being in the wrong spot. But the actual content is all that really matters.
<Hobbsee> how much memory does ubiquity require, again?
<Fujitsu> I think I've done it with 196MiB, but officially 256MiB, I believe.
<Hobbsee> right
<Hobbsee> so it wont die with 500mb
<Fujitsu> Ah, no.
<Hobbsee> good
<xxxxx1> good morning all! :)
<Hobbsee> morning xxxxx1 
<ScottK> mok0: An alternative way to set up bpuilder is to use Laserjock's scripts at http://revu.tauware.de/~laserjock/ - Rename the pbuilder-feisty to pbuilder-gutsy (or Ubuntu release of choice - I have 4) and off you go.
<StevenK> bpuilder. Don't know that one.
<ScottK> StevenK: It's not even 9AM here yet.  I can't be expected to spell yet.  It's too early.
* Hobbsee notes that her machine is dying slightly at having 3 OS' running at once.
<StevenK> Heh
* Fujitsu `sudo xm list's on a machine at school
<Hobbsee> haha.  gone way into swap
* ScottK goes to get the second cup of coffee for the day.
<Fujitsu> Aw, only 4 domUs at the moment :(
* StevenK hasn't played with Xen...
<Fujitsu> It works very well.
<zul> hmmm?
<StevenK> I quite like our vmware server at $WORK, though
<StevenK> Dual 2.4GHz Xeon with 2GB of RAM and 2 SATA II drives RAIDed
<Fujitsu> Mm, nice.
<Hobbsee> http://wedontsleep.org/~sarah/snapshot8.png
<Hobbsee> yummy.
<Fujitsu> Ouch, a gig of swap used.
<Fujitsu> Must be running really quickly at the moment.
<Hobbsee> it's getting even worse, now, when opening firefox.  eek
* mok0 is trying out pbuilder-feisty...
<Hobbsee>  22:57:01 up 12:28,  1 user,  load average: 7.58, 6.05, 3.61
<Hobbsee> uh, yeah!
<StevenK> Ugh!
<StevenK> 3 of out of the 4 universe packages needing a gcj transition fail to build.
<Fujitsu> Nice, nice.
* StevenK uploads the one that does build.
<StevenK> Which ironically, is called bigloo
<Fujitsu> Which others need fixing?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: oh not that horrid piece of software
<Hobbsee> doesnt build on some arches, last i checked
<ScottK> mok0: Don't forget you'll want to make pbuilder-gutsy to test build your REVU packages.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Fujitsu pdftk, postgresql-pljava and trang
<StevenK> Hobbsee: bigloo 2.8c-6 built on everything sucessfully.
<mok0> ScottK: OK!
<Hobbsee> nice!
<mok0> ScottK:  No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/gutsy
<LucidFox> Uploaded QConf: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5654
<Fujitsu> mok0: Grab gutsy's debootstrap
<ScottK> Hmm
<dholbach> Hobbsee: not at all - great idea
<ScottK> mok0: What Fujitsu said.
<Q-FUNK> that reminds:  why aren't debootstraps updated _before_ a distro is released?  I mean, the name of the upcoming release is always known even beofre the freeze starts and debootstrap is capable of calculating dependencies itself.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: Before the freeze? Not always.
<ScottK> Seems like something that ought to be looked into though.
<Q-FUNK> or during.  in any case, the name for release+1 is known before release is out.
<StevenK> I can recall two where that wasn't the case.
<Q-FUNK> not publicized, maybe, but at least known within the release team.
<Q-FUNK> either that, of debootstraps could be released to -updates
<Q-FUNK> s/of/r/or
<mok0> Fujitsu: I can't find gutsy packages anywhere.
<xxxxx1> mok0: is in feisty-backports
<gingerninja> i can get the gstreamer plugins i think the servers down
<gingerninja> is anyone else having a problem with the non free repository?
<Hobbsee> multiverse?
<gingerninja> yeah thats the one
<gingerninja> all the others work but i just cant connect to that one
<Fujitsu> They're in the same directory, so I highly doubt it.
<gingerninja> well vlc and all the usual stuff just isnt coming up
<gingerninja> i doesnt make any sense its never done this before
<mok0> I am still getting an errormessage when pbuilder tries to clean up the build directory. But only when I am running it via sudo, not when logged on as root. Weird.
<seb128> hi
<Hobbsee> hiya seb128 
<xxxxx1> hello seb128 
<seb128> bluekuja: ximp3 didn't build on powerpc, ia64, amd64, could you try to fix the bug?
<seb128> the i386 and sparc binaries wait to NEW but we accept all arches together usually
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<xxxxx1> hello DarkSun88 
<xxxxx1> Hobbsee|VM: xen?
<Hobbsee|VM> xxxxx1: virtualbox
<xxxxx1> cool
<Hobbsee|VM> yep :)
<Hobbsee|VM> /j #ubuntu-offtopic
<mshima> Some motu could take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5640
<mshima> ?
<ScottK> mshima: Isn't Gutsy going to ship with xrandr 1.3?  Does your package make sense for Gutsy?
<man-di> baaaah
<man-di> there are far too many azureus bug reports
<man-di> is someone working on them?
<StevenK> persia: Hi! Where's my cyrus21-imapd upload?
<shawarma>  /win 8
<shawarma> Um..
<persia> StevenK: Sorry - I fell asleep during iterative library removal, and have more limited time this week.  You'll see it in a couple hours.
<StevenK> persia: No I won't, I'll be sleeping. :-)
<mshima> ScottK: Why? It will support randr 1.3 too
<persia> StevenK: Right.  Your repo should sync it in a couple hours then :)
<mshima> ScottK: It's made by the same people that are working on randr
<ScottK> mshima: OK.  Reading Description: GTK+-based tool to configure the X output using the RandR 1.2 extension. lead me to think it was just for 1.2.  You might want to change the description as others might be confused too.
<ScottK> persia: Thanks for piling on on the Lauchpad changes on devel-discuss
<mshima> ScottK: Ok
<persia> ScottK: No thanks necessary - an effective process for recruiting and sponsorship is very important to me.  Thanks for raising the initial points while I was unavailable.
<mshima> ScottK: Is there something else?
<ScottK> mshima: I just did a quick read of the debian diff and it looked reasonable.  I'd have to build it to really have a strong opinion.
<mshima> ScottK: Ok, I've filled a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/121253 now I will wait
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121253 in Ubuntu "grandr needs packaging" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<muszek> hi
<muszek> deluge-torrent is in edgy-backports and in gutsy, but not in feisty repos... does anyone know why is that?  deluge's site (deluge-torrent.org) says that deluge IS in feisty repos (so it looks like it's been pulled)
<mok0> I have no end of troubles with pbuilder. I get this: 
<mok0> Extracting source
<mok0> Cannot execute /bin/bash: Permission denied
<mok0> pbuilder: Failed extracting the source
<StevenK> Is /var or /var/cache mounted noexec?
<mok0> ... logged on as root
<mok0> StevenK: no
<mok0> Just 1 big fs
<mok0> StevenK: varrun and varlock are mounted separately
<StevenK> Which is normal.
<mok0> I'll try pbuilder create again...
<mok0> Nope, same error
<ivoks> you do that with sudo, right?
<mok0> I _can't_ make pbuilder work with sudo 
<ScottK> mok0: That's odd as it works for lots of us.  I suspect you have some kind of system issue that is impacting you, not a pbuilder problem per se.
<ivoks> yeah, maybe -x on /bin/bash :)
<mok0> My user root is on an NFS share without root perm for other machines that the server. Perhaps that has something to do with it
<mok0> s/that the/than the/
<ivoks> root on share?
<ivoks> you are on NFS client or server?
<mok0> My root = /u/mok
<mok0> ... so if I go sudo cat file.txt it can't
<mok0> unless file.txt is 644
<ivoks> so you *are* on NFS client?
<mok0> ivoks: no
<mok0> ivoks: the server is CentOS box
<mok0> ... so I have to log on to the kubuntu box as root
<ivoks> ok, and...?
<mok0> ... and even then pbuilder fails
<ivoks> kubuntu box has something mounted via NFS?
* mok0 looks
<mok0> funny df doesnt show but /u is automounted from the server
<mok0> Ah: ghost:/user2/mok      57694336  16422272  38341280  30% /u/mok
<ivoks> so, that's your home on kubuntu box?
<ivoks> or just public nfs share?
<mok0> ivoks: it's not public, it's mounted without root access from clients
<ivoks> and you want to create pbuilder chroot in /u/mok?
<mok0> ivoks: no, just in /var/cache/whatever
<ivoks> then NFS is irrelevant here
<mok0> yes afacs
<ivoks> do you use ldap or something else for authentication?
<mok0> No, NIS
<ivoks> that's like 'no, I use NIS' or 'No, nothing'
<mok0> ivoks: We use NIS
<ivoks> then 'yes, nis' :)
<mok0> hehe
<ivoks> so, root can do anything on clinets; that's how NIS is set up
<ivoks> you, as a user, can't create pbuilder's chroot in /var
<ivoks> you should create .pbuilderrc in your home (/u/mok)
<mok0> ivoks: root from my ubuntu machine can not access the nfs share with his privileges
<ivoks> that's ok
<mok0> ivoks: should I just copy /etc/pbuilderrc to ~/ ?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> and then edit it
<mok0> ... to say?
<ivoks> open it and you will figure out what you need to change
<ivoks> as we said, you can't (as a user) write in /var
<mok0> ivoks: I could try /tmp :-)
<ivoks> so, change /var/somwthing to /u/mok/my-pbuilder-root/something
<ivoks> and then create my-pbuilder-root
<ivoks> and run fakeroot pbuilder create
<mok0> ... so fakeroot instead of sudo?
<mok0> ivoks: OK, I'll try it
<ivoks> you could do it with sudo, too
<ivoks> but fakeroot and sudo don't have anything in common
<mok0> ... except with sudo some of my personal files are not visible
<mok0> ... that is, stuff in /u/mok/pbuilder-root
<ivoks> rught
<ivoks> right
<ivoks> fakeroot fakes root to pbuilder, but you are owner of all files
<vijay2000> hi all , can anybody tell me why i get this error -  gpg: skipped "Vijay(Vijay) <vijay2000@gmail.com>": secret key not available
<mruiz> hi dholbach 
<mok0> ivoks: OK, it worked, apart from mounting /proc
<ivoks> right...
<ivoks> mok0: try with sudo then
<mok0>  /u/mok/.pbuilderrc: Permission denied :-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> chmod 644
<mok0> ivoks: I am using /tmp for building
<ivoks> don't
<mok0> ... otherwise I need 777 on the dir
<ivoks> if you do it in /tmp, then you'll loose everything on reboot
<vijay2000> anybody help please !!!
<mok0> ivoks: I never reboot ;-)
<coNP> vijay2000: does it help if you put "DEBUILD_PRESERVE_ENVVARS=DISPLAY" into your ~/.devscripts?
<mok0> ivoks: it's still going...
<vijay2000> no i got it i missed out -k<keyid>
<mok0> ivoks: heh! find: /tmp/cache/pbuilder/build//10766: Permission denied
<mok0> ivoks: it can't clean after itself
<mok0> ivoks: now I try building the app
<mok0> ivoks: ... fails with: Cannot execute /bin/bash: Permission denied
<ivoks> mkdir 777 /var/cache/pbuilder
<ivoks> chown, not mkdir :)
<mok0> ivoks: ok I try again...
<persia> vijay2000: Please try to make packages without the use of -k: just make sure that the name and email address in debian/changelog match at least one of the private keys on your default keyring.  Using -k is likely to cause issues in the future, as your changelog entries and signatures will not match.
<mok0> ivoks: same error, cannot execute bash
<ivoks> ups... why /var/?!
<ivoks> didn't we said that you can't write there
<ivoks> you said it will go in /tmp
<Hobbsee> persia: er...it is?
<mok0> ivoks: trying chmod 777 /tmp/cache/pbuilder
<dholbach> hi mruiz
<mok0> ivoks: Cannot execute /bin/bash: Permission denied
<mok0> ivoks: when "Extracting source"
<mruiz> dholbach, let's upgrade xml-rpc-c !
<ivoks> mok0: you have a crippled root, i can't help you :)
<ivoks> talk with your admin
<bashelier> hey dholbach 
<mok0> ivoks: I am the admin
<dholbach> hey bashelier
<ivoks> lol then make your root powerfull :)
<dholbach> mruiz: rock on
<mok0> ivoks: I will try on my box at home 
<bashelier> dholbach: sorry to ask you again, but is there a CC planed soon ?
<mruiz> dholbach: I'm following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<mok0> ivoks: but I think pbuilder is buggy
<ivoks> mok0: pbuilder works for everybody who ever tried it
<ivoks> mok0: so... it's not pbuilder; you said you can't even 'cat' as root
<dholbach> bashelier: I asked again for a time and date, just some hours ago - I expect them to answer soon
<dholbach> mruiz: alright
<mok0> ivoks: I will try something else...
<mruiz> dholbach: I'm in the step 5, changing some things in debian/control. We shoud use debhelper (>= 5) ?
<dholbach> if it's a package we inherit from debian, it's probably not worth doing that
<bashelier> dholbach: ok, thanks a lot :)
<dholbach> mruiz: ^... as it will always be a diff between ubuntu and debian that has to be merged and merged again
<mok0> ivoks: It _works_ if I log on as root and work locally on the ubuntu box
<mok0> It does not work if I become root through "su"
<mruiz> dholbach: I ask you because compat=4 and Standards-Version: 3.5.8 in Debian 
<ceros> how long does it take to be added to the REVU uploaders keyring?
<dholbach> mruiz: that's fine, it doesn't stop building it
<mruiz> ok
<mruiz> dholbach: What's about DebianMaintaner field?
<dholbach> that change you need to do
<mruiz> done!
<dholbach> neat-p
<dholbach> neat-o :)
<bashelier> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/DebianWatch#preview, version pre-alpha :)
<dholbach> bashelier: nice - will you move it to MOTU/Recipes/...?
<dholbach> bashelier: I'll add reviewing it to my todo list
<bashelier> I will
<dholbach> I already wanted to fix mvo's bzr recipe
<dholbach> thanks a lot, bashelier
* dholbach hugs bashelier
<geser> ceros: the REVU keyring it synced once a day but if you can get hold of a REVU admin, you can request a keyring sync
<bashelier> :)
<ceros> geser: does it also take that long for ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming to be cleaned out?
<ivoks> mok0: su -, not su
<mruiz> dholbach: Debian version is 0.9.10-4, and the upstream version is 1.06.14 . Then in changelog, xmlrpc-c (X) gutsy; urgency=low must appear..
<geser> ceros: once REVU knows your key, uploads should appear on the frontpage within minutes
<persia> bashelier: That looks great.  Would you also consider adding a link to the uscan notes on get-orig-source in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/CommonPackagingMistakes/ChangingTheOrigTarball?highlight=%28tarball%29 to cover watch files for bz2 upstreams?
<dholbach> mruiz: using dch -i should fix everything but the version number for you
<mruiz> dholbach: dch -i wrote "xmlrpc-c (0.9.10-4ubuntu1) gutsy; urgency=low"
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> now you just need to change it to 1.06.14-0ubuntu1
<bashelier> persia: persia this is not necessary with uupdate, in manpage "Currently  supported  source  code  file  types are .tar.gz, .tar.bz2, .tar.Z, .tgz, .tar and .zip archives." but I should perhaps explain it then, what do you think ?
<mruiz> dholbach: where should I do "debuild -S -sa" ?
<bashelier> mruiz: in sources dir ;)
<bashelier> mruiz: debuild -S -sa -kYOURGPGKEY
<dholbach> just try and play with it a bit
<mruiz> :-)
<persia> bashelier: Sorry for any confusion: I'm more thinking about the use case of the paranoid user who wants to verify md5sums and ensure no trojans are included, rather than the use case of a developer updating the package, and wished to see a link that would increase the use of the uscan-based get-orig-source for packages that use bz2 and have a watch file.
<Toadstool> good morning everybody!
<mruiz> with signature or without it? the recipe says without, but bashelier said with signature ...
<bashelier> persia: ok, will do in a few minutes, thanks :)
<bashelier> mruiz: uploads must be signed, then... ;)
<dholbach> bashelier: you think we should change the version number to -0ubuntu1?
<Toadstool> dholbach: hi!  is there any wiki page stating a mentor's duties?  I'd like to get back to work and I think that a little bit of reviewing and mentoring would be a good start
<dholbach> Toadstool: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Mentor should have something
<Toadstool> great!  thanks
<bashelier> dholbach: I thaught, in the case users wanted to do exactly the same manipulation than on the wiki... but yes why not
<dholbach> I think it'd help new contributors to understand why we use 0ubuntu1
<persia> Toadstool: Also, REVU and U-U-S work is appreciated, even external to direct mentoring.
<dholbach> I can try to fix that
<bashelier> dholbach: ok :)
<dholbach> just an idea :)
<dholbach> I'll move it to the Recipes namespace
<dholbach> if you don't mind
<Toadstool> persia: sure!
<bashelier> dholbach: thanks a lot
<dholbach> bashelier: I'll uploade 0.8.5 to my webpage
<dholbach> bashelier: that way people can always do the update, even if we have 0.8.6 in the archive
<persia> Toadstool: current U-U-S sponsor guide (could be much prettier) is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue, and the REVU reviewers guide is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Reviewing (although there is additional information elsewhere on the Wiki: search REVU and Reviewing).
<dholbach> oh, we have 0.8.6 already
<mruiz> dholbach: some errors -> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26444/
<dholbach> mruiz: that's not pretty, but alright
<dholbach> mruiz: native-package-with-dash-version is a problem though
<dholbach> you seem to have made it a native package?
<mruiz> upstream package in Debian version is xmlrpc-c_0.9.10.orig.tar.gz 
<mruiz> (and Ubuntu)
<dholbach> mruiz: hum - don't you have 1.06.14 or something?
<dholbach> bashelier: I drop -k<keyid> - people should have that alright, if they followed the steps
<mruiz> xmlrpc-c_1.06.14-0ubuntu1.tar.gz / xmlrpc-c_1.06.14.orig.tgz
<dholbach> try adding the debian changes to it again
<dholbach> some it's using xmlrpc-c_1.06.14-0ubuntu1.tar.gz
<bashelier> dholbach: ok, thanks
<Toadstool> persia: thank you for the pointers.  It's only been two months since I totally stopped doing anything Ubuntu-related though and I kinda followed what was happening on the mailing-lists so I think I remember the processes ;)
<mruiz> dholbach: add debian changes?
<dholbach> mruiz: extract the .orig.tar.gz tarball
<dholbach> re-add debian/
<dholbach> build source package
<dholbach> bashelier: fixed some small bits
<dholbach> bashelier: you ROCK
<dholbach> bashelier: want to announce it on ubuntu-motu-mentors@?
* dholbach fixes the bzr guide
<crevette> hello there
<crevette> I need mentoring to create new packages (evolution-python and conduit)
<Toadstool> I even remember my REVU password, awesome!
<bashelier> dholbach: will do, thanks a lot :p
* dholbach hugs bashelier
<crevette> is someone willing to  show me how to do so
<ScottK> crevette: evolution-python is currently sitting in the Debian NEW queue.  We should have it in a week or two.
<crevette> cool
<dholbach> french mafia! :-)
<crevette> why french mafia ?
<ScottK> crevette: What is conduit?  Would you point me at the home page for it please?
<bashelier> dholbach: hh :P
<crevette> ScottK: http://www.conduit-project.org/
<crevette> conduit uses evo-python
<Toadstool> dholbach: who is French over here? dunno what you're talking about :)
<crevette> it is a soft to sync data
<dholbach> hehe
<crevette> ScottK: can I retrieve the packaging code somewhere for evo-python ?
<ScottK> crevette: Yes.  Look in the svn repo for the Debian Python Modules Team.
<jekil> someone can review please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5638
<ScottK> jekil: Was tabelist already uploaded?
<mruiz> dholbach: I think that the problem is rules file ...
<jekil> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> jekil: Is it still in NEW or has it been released to the repository?
<jekil> i think in NEW
<ScottK> jekil: Did you have to edit your help2man man page or is it all automatically generated?
* ScottK looks at NEW
<jekil> see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/tablelist
<jekil> ScottK: i have to edit because help2man generate same crap
<ScottK> It's still in NEW, so I won't be able to build the package yet.
<jekil> ok, thanks
<jekil> another question, if i must run a setuid graphical software, that must connect to X, what is the right(TM) way to give it the permission to do this? xhost?
<ScottK> I'm not the right person to ask that question.
<ScottK> jekil: Gave you a comment based on looking at the debian diff.
<jekil> ScottK: thanks :) 
<persia> jekil: Must your application be setuid?  Could you work around it using gksudo or gksu?  xhost is almost never the right way (although widely used: it can be dangerously insecure).
<jekil> persia: my application is an applet that must read a directory owned by debian-tor with permission 700
<LucidFox> By the way, what is the correct way to specify graphical sudo in .desktop files?
<LucidFox> I used su-to-root -X -c command
<persia> jekil: Could your applet call a helper program (in /usr/lib/packagename/) to process the directory?
<persia> LucidFox: That looks ideal.  Thanks for the hint.
<jekil> persia: i think no, because the user launch the applet, the applet launch tor that need to read that directory
<jekil> launch tor (owned by the user, not debian-tor)
<jekil> the right way i think is that the application launch tor via init.d scripts, but the developers seems uncollaborative
<ScottK> jekil: So package your own init in the debian dir.
<persia> jekil: I don't know enough about tor to investigate properly, but I'm guessing that if the directory is shipped 700, it's for a good reason.  I'd suggest either that the user tor have a different directory, or that the tor management applet calls something else with sufficient permissions to start to as debian-tor.
<jekil> the bug is this: http://trac.vidalia-project.net/ticket/239
<jekil> and i don't known how to package this :(
<jekil> persia: that directory is 700 because it store the secret exit node ips, but the applet need thats for make a map
<persia> jekil: Ah.  I understand now.  I'd still recommend trying to find a solution that doesn't require the use of xhost, but a proper solution seems more complicated.  If things work well when 1) tor is already running, and 2) /etc/torrc enables a control port, you might just want to generate a detailed debian/README.Debian.
<jekil> persia: 1) yes, but application start tor not via /etc/init.d but directly via tor command, so with user id 2) i have done it
<dholbach> have a nice evening guys
<dholbach> see you tomorrow
<LaserJock> anybody know wher procmail would send mail if it can't deliver it?
<coNP> I guess it puts the mail to the default if no rule applies
<LaserJock> but what happens if it can't find the default
<xxxxx1> hello LaserJock 
<coNP> I don't really understand, LaserJock 
<LaserJock> I moved my mail direcotry and forgot to update procmailrc, I wonder if they just headed to /dev/null :/
<coNP> I guess there is an inbox somewhere
<LaserJock> I can't find it
<LaserJock> darn
<coNP> LaserJock: do you use maildir?
<LaserJock> oh, I think I found it
<LaserJock> yes I do
<LaserJock> it dumped them in ~/
<LaserJock> phew
<LaserJock> that was 250+ messages
<ScottK> LaserJock: That's good.  I was betting on dev/null.
* coNP was sure procmail is bulletproof
<crevette> how can I try to build a package with a dependency on a package not yet in archives, but that I have built on my system ?
<crevette> (sound compliated)=
<ScottK> crevette: Make a chroot, install your dependencies there, and build within the chroot.
<crevette> ScottK: I have already a pbuilder chroot
<ScottK> It's more complicated in pbuilder than in a normal chroot.
<coNP> crevette: you make a repository
<coNP> crevette: it is easy, you create a directory, copy your .deb files inside and run dpkg-scanpackages inside
<coNP> then you can add it to /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc  as OTHERMIRROR
<coNP> for this you need some kind of http / ftp server, though
<asimon> crevette: See also http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=206382 on how to add a hook to pbuilder that allows to include local dependencies without the need of some http/ftp server.
<crevette> asimon: tx
<ScottK> jdong: Any chance of getting some action soon on Bug #117794?  The existing clamtk in Feisty is pretty thoroughly broken...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117794 in feisty-backports "Backport of clamtk 2.32-1 from Gutsy to Feisty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117794
<LaserJock> ScottK: I was thinking so too, but apparently it just when one up in the path
<LaserJock> oh geeze
<LaserJock> the two mailing lists I requested 2 months ago just showed up
<somerville32> lol
<LaserJock> argg, and they are named differently
<LaserJock> they put -motu- in the name
<qball> where is seveas he would help me package gmpc
<somerville32> qball: I'll help you if you want
<qball> what I want is to setup a repository that automagically generates builds from svn.
<qball> and can be used for people to test
<somerville32> You could make a script to do that and then make it available on a webserver or ftp server.
<qball> that's what I need to setup, but now idea how.. and I actually have little time to look to close to it.
<somerville32> qball: Well, do you know how to package?
<qball> no. 
<somerville32> qball: Then that would be the first step.
<somerville32> qball: Do you want to learn how to do that?
<qball> it's very simple, I don't have time to look at that stuff, and don't feel like it.. so very egoistic (sorry) I am looking for somebody willing to give me (more) then a hand.
<qball> I got the server stuff to run it on.. 
<qball> I know it's alot asked.
<mshima> What should I do to make grandr accepted?
<mshima> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/121253
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121253 in Ubuntu "grandr needs packaging" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<mshima> Is anyone working on azureus?
<ScottK> mshima: Did you look at the comment I left you?
<bluekuja> mshima, not that I know
<bluekuja> you can take it if you want
<bluekuja> just follow procedure (bug in lp, mark in dad) etc
<mshima> ScottK: At the launchpad yes
<ScottK> mshima: I thought I left you one on revu too.
* ScottK lloks
<ScottK> err looks
<somerville32> Heya ScottK
<mshima> ScottK: Ok I will see it now
<ScottK> Heya somerville32.
<mshima> ScottK: thks
<ScottK> mshima: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5659
<mshima> bluekuja: Ok
<coNP> hey pochu 
<coNP> we seem to answer the same mail
<mshima> Whats the difference between Original-Maintainer and XSBC-Original-Maintainer?
<coNP> I guess the second one is used in debian/control.in in the description of source packages, whereas the first one applies only for binary packages (and is generated automagically)
<mshima> coNP: Ok
<ScottK> The good news is I got python-scipy to not FTBFS.  The bad news is I had to comment out the umfpack module to do it.  See Bug #121398.  I'd really like some suggestions on how to proceed.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121398 in python-scipy "Python-scipy 0.5.2-9ubuntu2 built without umfpack module" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121398
<pochu> coNP: :)
<zul> does anyone know of any glade-3 tutorial?
<pochu> coNP: I have a doubt. Is the same .tgz than .tar.gz?
<coNP> Actually I guess they *might be* the same.
<ScottK> mshima: In my comment I meant XSBC-Original-Maintainer.  That's the only way you can specify it.
<mshima> ScottK: Ok
<mshima> ScottK: Just uploaded a new version
<ScottK> mshima: I may have time to look at it again today.  No promises.
<mshima> ScottK: Ok
<ScottK> mok0: I'm looking at kssh right now.
<mok0> ScottK: heh, I uploaded it a short while ago...
<mok0> My pbuilder probs from this afternoon seem to stem from the fact that my home dir is on an NFS share... Here at home it works fine.
<ScottK> mok0: That's good.
<mshima> ScottK: I found some problems don't need to take a look at it now
<mok0> I am looking at theseus now, which must be linked to libatlas, but that package (atlas3-base-dev) cannot be found by pbuilder.
<ScottK> mshima: OK.  No worries.
<mok0> E: Package atlas3-base-dev has no installation candidate
<mok0> Ah, I might have solved it...
<mok0> Hmm, I've set COMPONENTS="main universe" in pbuilderrc, but do I have to create the base.tar.gz file again?
* ScottK imagines update would do it, but doesn't know for sure.
<ScottK> mok0: Left a comment for you on kssh.  One thing left to work out it looks like.
<ivoks> i always did that with pbuilder login (with save changes)
<ivoks> then edited sources.list :)
* ScottK too
<mok0> ScottK: thx, I'll take a look... 
<mok0> ivoks: I'll try it!
<ScottK> mshima: Did you build the package in a pbuilder and did it build this time?
<mok0> ivoks: how do I save changes?
<ivoks> pbuilder login --save-after-login
<mok0> ivoks: Hey! It works :)
<mok0> ivoks: but how does the automated build system know to include universe?
<RainCT> Hi
<ScottK> Hi RainCT.
<ivoks> mok0: it doesn't, it just grabs what it needs
<RainCT> can ubotu check if a package contains a certain file or do I need to download it? :p
<ScottK> mok0: Because it's building a Universe package.
<ivoks> and what is available
<ivoks> RainCT: apt-file
<ScottK> RainCT: You can do that on packages.ubuntu.com
<mok0> cool
<RainCT> okay, thanks ivoks ScottK
<mok0> ScottK: That's a weird error you found in kssh, I hope I can reproduce that
<ScottK> Run lintian on your .deb and it'll tell you.
<RainCT> jamyskis: Hi. I told you about a graphics problem with Open Invaders some time ago - just ignore it, it's probably my screen that's mad, I think I'll buy a new one soon :P
<mshima> ScottK: I'm setting up a pbuilder environment
<jamyskis> RainCT: yep I remember - thanks for the feedback, my condolences on your monitor :P
<ScottK> mshima: Great.
<Ash-Fox> Heh.. having something build in six minutes verses one hour and half is such a huge improvement... I love my new server.
<mok0> ScottK: squashed that last one in kssh 
<ScottK> If you upload the new one quickly I can start it building before I have to run off for a while.
<mok0> It should be there, waiting for the page to update....
<ScottK> I see it
<ScottK> mok0: It's building, but I have to run, so it may be a while before you hear back.
<mok0> ScottK: Well I still have work to do. CU!
<ScottK> nixternal: Looking for a challenge to flux your MOTU wannabe skills with?
<nixternal> always :)
<ScottK> nixternal: There's Bug 121398 where I'm kind of stuck
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121398 in python-scipy "Python-scipy 0.5.2-9ubuntu2 built without umfpack module" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121398
<RainCT> good night
<ScottK> mok0: kssh advocated.  Now you need one more.
<mok0> ScottK: Great! Thanks for your effort!
<xxxxx1> bye all!
<nixternal> ScottK: libufsparse-dev installs umfpack* to /usr/include/ufsparse/* so the include <umfpack*> is wrong
<ScottK> Ahhhh
<ScottK> nixternal: You want to fix it and get the upload of have me take care of it...
<ScottK> of/or
<nixternal> sure...I am getting ready to head to school...I am running a build now to see if that fixes it
<ScottK> nixternal: Would you please diff whatever you did and attach it to the bug so I can make sure I'm understanding you right.
<nixternal> ScottK: I removed the 2 umf patches, and I will create a new patch to fix the includes in the .i file...and then put the debdiff in that bug report...sound cool?
<ScottK> Sounds great.
<mshima> ScottK: I fixed the build-depends and now it builds on pbuilder
<ScottK> mshima: Great.  I doubt I'll be able to look at it today.
<mshima> ScottK: no problem
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-21
<Bassetts> are some of the repos down?
<Fujitsu> Bassetts: Which in particular.y
<Fujitsu> s/.y/?/
<white> Fujitsu: good morning :)
<Bassetts> let me see
<Bassetts> http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty-security/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz: Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
<Bassetts> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz: Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
<Bassetts> there
<Bassetts> Fujitsu: are they down if i get that message?
<Fujitsu> Oh, hi white. irssi is nicely not notifying me on pings any more.
<Fujitsu> Bassetts: It could be a problem on your end, but I'll try it from here.
<Bassetts> someone in #ubuntu said they have been having trouble getting packages
<Fujitsu> Works fine for me, so most probably your end.
<Bassetts> Fujitsu: what do I need to do?
<Fujitsu> Bassetts: Check that there are no proxies between you and it that are doing stupid things, or perhaps try again later.
<Bassetts> Fujitsu: I have not setup no proxies
<Bassetts> Fujitsu: could it be a connection from one of my ISPs servers that is not getting a connection to the repo
<Fujitsu> It's hard to say... Probably best to wait a couple of hours and try again.
<Bassetts> it works in firefox
<Bassetts> i can go to http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty-security/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz and it shows the file
<Bassetts> Fujitsu: could I not download the Packages.gz files in firefox and put them wherever they should go?
<Bassetts_> Fujitsu: I just realised, its a gzip error
<Bassetts_> "sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)"
<Bassetts_> a status of 1 in gzip means there was an error
<Kmos> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5677
<Kmos> i need someone to review this
<Bassetts_> the Packages.gz seems to be broken on two repos
<Bassetts_> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/binary-i386/
<Bassetts_> and http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty-security/main/binary-i386/
<Kmos> Bassetts_: try another repo
<Bassetts_> gzip: Desktop/Packages.gz: unexpected end of file
<Kmos> ch.archive.ubuntu.com
<Bassetts_> thanks
<ajmitch> usually it's just a transparent proxy breaking the world, again
<Bassetts_> I changed it to main server in synaptic and it all works fine
<Bassetts_> ajmitch: ??
<ajmitch> blame your ISP
<Bassetts_> they seem to be sucking this month
<Bassetts_> so for now am I ok using the main server?
<Bassetts_> then trying the UK server later
<ajmitch> should be
<Bassetts_> thanks
<Bassetts_> that delayed me a good 45 mins
<pochu> Kmos: you appear here in a private! :) http://daniel.holba.ch/pics/pitti-virtual-desktop.png
<Kmos> pochu: hehe.. nice :D
<Kmos> that's a daily screenshot :P
<blueyed> I've created a debdiff by using a simple patch, but the debdiff includes changes in config.sub und config.guess.
<blueyed> Is that ok or should I manually remove them from the debdiff?
<blueyed> If you know an answer to my question, please leave a comment at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/httptunnel/+bug/121458 - I'm off to bed.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121458 in httptunnel "[patch]  fix broken --stdin-stdout option that writes to stdin" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<TheMuso> blueyed: I'll have a look at that, and update the package.
<TheMuso> Is this for gutsy?
<blueyed> yes, should be.
<TheMuso> blueyed: Ok thanks.
<TheMuso> blueyed: Do you know if this is reported in Debian?
<TheMuso> I'll have a look in a bit.
<TheMuso> Ok. There is a bug in Debian about it.
<joejaxx> Good Evening All
<TheMuso> Hey joejaxx.
<crimsun> ScottK: will be in the metro area tomorrow evening/night.
<crimsun> time to Debianise this puppy
<StevenK> ... why?
* StevenK is trying to un-Debianise some of his servers.
<crimsun> oh, I'm referring to packaging https://code.launchpad.net/~motu/asoundconf-ui/trunk
<StevenK> Ah ha
<joejaxx> crimsun: :)
<leonel> ScottK:   http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=384190   
<LaserJock> leonel: my goodness
<leonel> LaserJock:  ??
<LaserJock> leonel: that forum thread
<ajmitch> LaserJock!
<ajmitch> now that you're core dev, are you going to blog about being "Beyond MOTU" & your experiences? ;)
<jsgotangco> heh
<RAOF> If anyone on motumedia wants to check out bug #121476, I'd appreciate comments about the way I've done it.  Is this how you'd like such bugs to be filed/packaging changes to be made?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121476 in mplayer "Use Compiz' "video" plugin when available" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121476
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: how's it going?
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: not bad, just been busy sorting out last minute home details before i join the employed labour force again on monday
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hehe
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: oh great, where are you working next?
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: a firm mostly involved with development of Maven
* ajmitch doesn't know what maven is, so will just nod
<jsgotangco> heh
<ajmitch> http://maven.apache.org/ ?
<jsgotangco> maven.apache.org
<jsgotangco> jetty as well
<ajmitch> google wins
<ajmitch> interesting
<ajmitch> I hope it goes well for you
<jsgotangco> sure do thanks
<ajmitch> hm, looks to be about a 2-week delay on debian NEW at the moment
<ajmitch> I guess I've got time to tidy & push packages
<LaserJock> that's pretty good
<jsgotangco> brb
<ajmitch> it feels wrong now to check stuff out with cvs
<LaserJock> "now"?
<ajmitch> :P
<ajmitch> I don't have to do it often
<LaserJock> well, I replied to that ClamAV thread on the forums, I bet I get some good flames
<ajmitch> yay
* ajmitch grabs some popcorn
<ajmitch> ah, you didn't mention that updating clamav to 0.90.x breaks about 15-20 related packages
<LaserJock> I did say there were like 20 packages that depend on it
<LaserJock> but you can certainly add that
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ajmitch> not in Big Bold Letters
<ajmitch> someone foaming at the mouth could easily miss that
<ajmitch> so what was decided at the last motu meeting about it?
<ajmitch> since it was at about 1am here
<LaserJock> looking at the meeting minutes it looks like it was decided to continue working on it on the mailing list
<ajmitch> you weren't at the meeting either?
<LaserJock> no
<ajmitch> slack
<ajmitch> what, were you sleeping or something?
<LaserJock> working I imagine
<tonyyarusso> err, slightly offtopic question for someone who's done kernel compiles:  Can I compile just a module that I need to add, not the whole kernel?
<RAOF> You should be able to, yes.
<RAOF> Module-assistant does, and that doesn't even need the kernel source, just the headers.
<tonyyarusso> Hmm, I'll look into that.  Any howtos to get me started RAOF ?
<RAOF> Not that I can think of, sorry.  Generally, you just build the module source, making sure your /usr/lib/modules/2.6.whatever/build symlink goes somewhere sane.
<RAOF> Or are you trying to build a module included in the vanilla kernel source, that just hasn't been built for your current kernel?
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: The latter.  It isn't included in Debian/Ubuntu b/c of licensing issues.
<RAOF> Well, you could try changing the kernel config, going into the appropriate kernel source subdirectory, and "make"ing.
<RAOF> Alternatively, if you've already built the kernel, you could try making it again without cleaning the already built stuff.
<RAOF> But that could have wierd effects.  As could just building the appropriate subdirectory, I suppose :)
<tonyyarusso> I'd like to stay as close to a standard, auto-upgradeable Ubuntu kernel if possible.
<RAOF> Well, your module isn't going to be auto-upgradeable no matter what you do.
<RAOF> So, I'd try my first suggestion.  Get the ubuntu kernel source, change the config, go to the appropriate subdirectory for your module, and make it.
<tonyyarusso> Is it possible to have the _kernel_ upgrade on it's own, and just have to go fix the module manually, or will I be out of happy-apt-land altogether?
<RAOF> Oh, the kernel will upgrade on its own.
<RAOF> And break your module in the process, so you'll need to re-build it.
<tonyyarusso> ah, that's fine
<persia> StevenK: About cyrus21-imapd and libsnmp: While it builds without the library, I would rather either build a testcase that shows it really doesn't need it for identical behaviour, or hunt down why ./configure is testing for libsnmp, and how the MIBs are build and installed to perhaps fix the problem with the SNMP support.
<mneptok> beep beep!
<persia> One possibility (not yet confirmed) is that it would prefer to use mib2c or net-snmp-config to do things, or perhaps it just references the MIB configuration tables.  If it's not a functionality issue, I'd prefer to understand the problem and fix it, rather than going for the quick solution.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: this would be nice: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/automatic-module-assistant
<LaserJock> hmm, so I just came back from a trip to Walmart
<ajmitch> uh oh
<LaserJock> and they had a big sign on the door saying they are now selling Dell's
<LaserJock> sure enough, they had E521s
<ajmitch> which are?
<LaserJock> no Ubuntu though :/
<ajmitch> that's expected
<LaserJock> I know, but still ;-)
<micahcowan> Walbuntu
<ScottK> LaserJock: How do I get the big Ubuntu Developer red badge of courage on the forums?
<LaserJock> ScottK: jdong hooked me up
<LaserJock> ask a forum admin person
<ScottK> LaserJock: thanks.
<ajmitch> ScottK: you need to embark on an arduous quest, long & perilous
* ajmitch still isn't a true developer
<ScottK> ajmitch: Then I don't wanna do it.  I want it to be easy, quick, painless, and have a pony.
<ScottK> jdong: Where are you...  How about hooking me up for Ubuntu Forums (forum user ID is kitterma) 
<crimsun> I'm a peon, woo!
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> now that I'm a core-dev I think I'll move on to becoming a peon
<ScottK> Peon has less work associated with it.
<crimsun> "5 Cups of Ubuntu"
<crimsun> I rock
<LaserJock> sweet
* ScottK is still on his first cup.
<somerville32> I don't drink, sorry.
<somerville32> I get IV infusions
<crimsun> ugh, the UF has that obnoxious modal dialog
<crimsun> "Are you sure you want to log out?"
<ScottK> Of course.  UF are so wonderful why would you ever want to do that.
<crimsun> why no, I intentionally accidentally clicked the hyperlink
<ScottK> somerville32: Are they at least good IV infusions?
<ScottK> crimsun: Of course.
<somerville32> I don't want to be Judged but I hope Ubuntu infused with a minimum amount of much needed human nutrients is acceptable.
<ScottK> somerville32: As long as caffeine qualifies as a much needed human nutrient, then I'm good.
* nixternal kicks scipy
<nixternal> hiya Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> nixternal: don't kick too hard, it might kick back
<Hobbsee> hiya!
<nixternal> I think it is kicking back
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> heh.  the warning was too late!
<Hobbsee> hiya LaserJock :)
<nixternal> build baby build!!!
<Hobbsee> it wont
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: still causing trouble?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> always
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: managed to get out of work yet?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: not yet...i havent actually been near there - only a floor higher than it
<ajmitch> I'm sure you can avoid it somehow
<ajmitch> got everything ready for gutsy release?
<Hobbsee> nope
<Hobbsee> not even tribe 2
<jmg_> is there a kernel backports archive?
* Hobbsee has been studying a bit.
<Hobbsee> and then went shopping :P
<ajmitch> studying?
<ajmitch> why?
<ajmitch> aren't exams over there yet?
<jmg_> it's exam time
<joejaxx> jmg_: interesting
<joejaxx> jmg_: i never thought about that
<ajmitch> they've finished at uni here
<joejaxx> jmg_: if there was a kernel backports archive
<jmg> joejaxx: i need it
* ajmitch has flatmates who are lazing about, doing nothing all day now
<joejaxx> jmg: what are you on now?
<StevenK> They're still on at my uni, but I didn't care since the two subjects I did don't require final exams.
<jmg> joejaxx: feisty, but gutsy breaks my laptop
<joejaxx> jmg: ah
<ajmitch> ah, loldebian
<ajmitch> http://loldebian.wordpress.com/2007/06/20/now-i-has-a-pony/
<joejaxx> lol
<StevenK> Oh yes, madduck
<jmg> i need the gutsy kernel because of bug 117282
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117282 in linux-source-2.6.20 "2gb SD card not usable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117282
<joejaxx> ajmitch: hahaha
<jmg> but then i also need modules-restricted
<ajmitch> libc6 dependency?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: http://loldebian.wordpress.com/2007/06/01/i-is-sunning/
<ajmitch> joejaxx: yes, I've seen them all
<ajmitch> jmg: it'd be fairly trivial to install the kernel & rebuild linux-{restricted,ubuntu}-modules
<jmg> http://loldebian.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/we_are_debian.png <- illegal use of genie logo
<jmg> ajmitch: isnt restricted-modules build a black art?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> it's as trivial as any package build
<ajmitch> the black art is getting things built in order & updated with the right ABI versioning when it's bumped
<jmg> hmm
<ajmitch> which you won't have to worry about
<StevenK> If something like Openoffice.org's package building could be called trivial.
<jmg> can i just download the gutsy source and dpkg-buildpackage?
<ajmitch> yes
<jmg> ah
<ajmitch> plus build-deps, etc
<jmg> but i need to tell it not to build every kernel variant
<jmg> obviously
<jmg> does that just mean commenting the lines in control?
<ajmitch> no, there's a gutsy-specific way of doing it
<ajmitch> look on the wiki for details
<ajmitch> the kernel packaging was redone for gutsy
* nixternal hugs scipy
<ajmitch> nixternal: wasn't it kicking you earlier? :)
<nixternal> yup, but I kicked back and fixed her. Now I can debdiff it and get it uploaded
* nixternal finishes this application
<LaserJock> blah
<LaserJock> I knew LP was down and I still went there
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> so did i, dont worry
<LaserJock> it's become so central to my life
<Hobbsee> that's scary
<crimsun> admitting it is the first step to recovery.
<LaserJock> I know, I know
* ajmitch doesn't need it
* ajmitch has broken free
<crimsun> I, too, will be unplugged from the matrix soon.
<crimsun> </denial>
<crimsun> (which, interestingly enough, is a permutation of my first name...)
<ajmitch> funny, the number of people that say (on forums, various 'news' sites like osnews) that kubuntu should be delayed for kde 4.0
<jmg> haha
<nixternal> ScottK: I have this patch, however LP is down for who knows how long
<ajmitch> I suspect that they may have unrealistic expectations of kde4
<nixternal> LaserJock: haha, I didn't, saw your comment, and then went ;p
<StevenK> [14:38]  < mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update.
<StevenK>                     Estimated downtime is approx 30 mins
<StevenK> nixternal: ^
<jmg> lp should have a better down message.
<jmg> like a lolcat.
<StevenK> NO
* StevenK kills jmg 
<nixternal> k, when it is back up, I will have a present waiting there for yoU :D
<crimsun> nixternal: think of it as a weekly manager-enforced workrave.
* jmg parrys the kill and ripostes with a destroy
* StevenK deflects the destroy and hits back with genocide.
* jmg dispels genocide and casts finger of death
* ajmitch wonders if we'll have snow on the ground in the morning
<ajmitch> hello Yagisan 
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan 
<jmg> save vs. wands or die!
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch, Hobbsee 
* StevenK waves to Yagisan 
* Yagisan waves back
<Yagisan> ajmitch, Hobbsee, StevenK - what graphics chips are you guys using in your ubuntu boxes ?
<crimsun> hey Yagisan, LTNS
<jmg> salt and vinegar
* Yagisan is writting an opengl graphics libarary
<nixternal> my favorite kind
<Yagisan> crimsun, it is. everyyone wants all my free time
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
<ajmitch> nVidia Corporation NV43 [GeForce 6600] 
<ajmitch> and a 915GM in the laptop
<Yagisan> nice chips I don't have in my database
<nixternal> I am with Hobbsee on that one :) same here
* nixternal hugs the freedom
<ajmitch> i915 is *really* common
<Yagisan> Hobbsee, ajmitch - could I trouble you to pm me the output from glxinfo -l
<ajmitch> you may
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: http://rafb.net/p/oARHgu31.html
<jmg> free time?
<Yagisan> thanks Hobbsee 
<jmg> whats that?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: no problem
<Yagisan> jmg, what I had when I could go to UDU - such a long time ago
<Student> Aside from invalid fstab and menu.lst entries, is there anything else that could cause the "/bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off" boot error?
<Yagisan> I got an interesting email from my isp
<Yagisan> the claim I never paid their relocation fee
<ajmitch> fun
<Yagisan> no this is interesting, because every month without fail - they direct debit the monthly charge from my account
<Yagisan> I checked - and the indeed did not debit the relocation fee
<Yagisan> so I've sent them a reply - thank you for the free relocation - I assume you failure to debit is compensation for the inadequate service you have provided.
<nxvl> when automount makes an icon on my desktop, what package opens when i click on Properties on the "right-click" menu?
<nixternal> haha, nice
<Yagisan> now I hope iinet or someone gets adsl2 here - because I really want to switch
<StevenK> Don't switch to iinet.
<crimsun> Student: well, sure.  I ran into it this morning with an older Breezy install where /dev/hda1 became /dev/hdb1 due to a race with USB mass storage.
<Yagisan> StevenK, surely someone is better then TPG
<crimsun> Student: however, this channel isn't appropriate for it; you likely want #ubuntu.
<StevenK> Yagisan: I quite like Exetel.
<nixternal> ScottK: bug 121398 is all yours :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121398 in python-scipy "Python-scipy 0.5.2-9ubuntu2 built without umfpack module" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121398
<Yagisan> Hobbsee, ajmitch - intel has 8 texture units available for fixed function opengl ?! - 
<ajmitch> Yagisan: no idea
<ajmitch> I just use the laptop, I don't care what goes on inside
<Student> crimsun, Heh, thanks, but they told me to look here, because no one over there knows how to fix it. I'v been going there for 2 days straight and I even posted on the forums - no one can figure it out. Sorry to have bothered you, not my intention, but I was desparate.
<Yagisan> ajmitch, thats what your output says. I need to fix some bad design assumptions in my spec
* Yagisan has a course on opengl starting soon - so he is writing his support libs now to save time
<ajmitch> lucky you
<nixternal> application complete and sent!
<ajmitch> what were you assuming?
<Yagisan> ajmitch, 4
<Yagisan> 4 max, and 2 average
<ajmitch> interesting
<ajmitch> how many in the nvidia chip?
<Yagisan> 4 fixed function - 16 via shaders
* Yagisan has chips with 3 (ati) or 4 (nvidia here)
<Yagisan> now that is interesting. Intel opensource drivers have texture compression - ATI opensource drivers do not.
<ajmitch> if you can trust the output from my laptop
<Yagisan> ajmitch, Hobbsee's confirms it
<ajmitch> ok
* Yagisan needs a keyboard for bub to type on - his help isn't very helpful
<TheMuso> You gotta love electrical work being done.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<StevenK> TheMuso: How much longer are the renevations going on for?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Another couple of weeks or so.
<TheMuso> The worst is over however.
<TheMuso> StevenK: We had power off for so long today because our power board was being stripped back and upgraded.
<StevenK> Ah
<StevenK> I find it amusing when electrians talk of "upgrading" a distribution board.
<StevenK> That's not an upgrade, it's removing the old bit and putting something new in!
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Anyways, its all circuite brakers with safety switches now.
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> There's five or six seperate circuits at my place, which surprised me when the electrian pointed it out.
<TheMuso> There was also bodgy cabling on one of the power point circuites that needed replacing. Seems like one of the previous ownsers had work done, and lighting cable was used for a power point circuite.
<StevenK> Hah, nice.
<TheMuso> Oh yeah.
<StevenK> We have a little bit of dodgy cabling at our place. The previous owner was 1) an electrical contractor, and 2) a big DIY kind of guy. Do the math. :-/
<TheMuso> StevenK: Why did it surprise you?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Given the age of the house, I was expecting one circuit for all of the powerpoints, and another for the lights.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Instead, there's two each for powerpoints and lights, one for the air con, and I think another for the oven and stove.
<ajmitch> StevenK: it could be worse
<StevenK> ajmitch: Oh?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Stoves always have their own circuites.
<TheMuso> There is a good chance also that your aircon may use more than one phase
<ajmitch> it could have been a really incompetent electrical contractor
* ajmitch has heard various horror stories
<StevenK> ajmitch: From all accounts, he was kind of.
<StevenK> std::string operator()(const std::string &word) const;
<StevenK> Damn my C++ knowledge.
<StevenK> How do I call that?
<jml> apprehensively
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> I'm guessing it's the same as __call__ for Python.
<Fujitsu> It is.
<StevenK> Neat.
<Fujitsu> So whateverobject(some_string_reference)
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> Patch hacked, we'll see if it builds now.
<ajmitch> sigh, snow
<jml> as if it snows
<ajmitch> jml: cold in tasmania yet?
<jml> freezing
<jml> but only in the conversational, non-technical sense
* Fujitsu wishes we got some snow around here.
<ajmitch> now imagine dunedin...
<jml> there's snow on Mt Wellington
<jml> ajmitch: when I was visiting, the weather was about the same in Dunners as here.
<ajmitch> I don't think it's snowing yet tonight, but it's meant to
<StevenK> And what's bad about snow?
<TheMuso> Its snowed on the mountains in the last few days.
<ajmitch> StevenK: it's cold
<TheMuso> Only localized, but yeah.
<ajmitch> and I have to go outside in 15 minutes
<StevenK> It's hit 5 degrees here over the last few nights.
<ajmitch> wow
<ajmitch> I didn't think it was possible
<TheMuso> StevenK: It hasn't felt much more than that up her.
<TheMuso> at times
<ajmitch> I think we have have got up to 5 degrees here today
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Oh its possible, where I used to live, we used to get 1-2 degrees.
<ajmitch> it was about 3 degrees at 3pm
<jml> government says it's 5 degrees now
<jml> but that's probably what they want us to believe
<highvoltage> jml: and you trust them!?
<Fujitsu> It only got down to 7.9 degrees degrees overnight, but it was 0.1 when I left the house at 7am a week ago.
<ajmitch> highvoltage: wouldn't you trust your government?
<ajmitch> hint: they're probably reading what you type right now
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Sigh. That gives me: error: 'pStemmer' cannot be used as a function
<Fujitsu> StevenK: The method isn't static or anything strange like that?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: It's const, but not static
<highvoltage> ajmitch: no way!
<highvoltage> ajmitch: I wouldn't be surprised if they did :)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Any ideas?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: You are trying to execute an instance and not the class, right?
<StevenK> I'm not certain.
<Fujitsu> Can you pastebin the code that's failing?
<StevenK> Not easily, it being 1,606 lines.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<StevenK> It does: Xapian::Stem *pStemmer = NULL; and then pStemmer = new Xapian::Stem(...);
<StevenK> So I'm guessing that I'm playing with an instance.
<Fujitsu> And Xapian::Stem is the class that has operator()?
<Fujitsu> If so, that should be working.
<StevenK> Yes.
<StevenK> pStemmer(term);
<StevenK> And that's what I'm calling.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Can I point you at the package and my patch?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Sure.
<Fujitsu> I might be a little laggy, due to preparing for the school formal tomorrow night.
<StevenK> Oh, pish posh.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Do you have a date?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: are you going to get pictures?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: will be your date, i'm sure
<StevenK> Heh
* Fujitsu throws a StevenK at Hobbsee.
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<dholbach> Hobbsee: what are you talking about?
* Hobbsee dodges
<Fujitsu> I wasn't going at all until 2 days ago. :(
<StevenK> Splat!
<Hobbsee> dholbach: Fujitsu's school formal.  he wants a date
<Fujitsu> um, sure.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Oh, and then what happened?
<dholbach> date for what?
* dholbach doesn't understand
<Hobbsee> dholbach: he wants to go ballroom dancing, but cant without the date
<Hobbsee> dholbach: formal / prom
<Hobbsee> dholbach: maybe the term is a prom in germany?
<dholbach> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok
<dholbach> where do I have to be when? :)
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Some people decided that I had to go, and got quite a number of teachers/coordinators onto me.
<StevenK> Twitch.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> formals are fun
<qball> Hobbsee: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> hiya qball!
<Fujitsu> Noo, not fun! Evil!
<LaserJock> morning dholbach 
<dholbach> hey LaserJock
<dholbach> how're you all doing?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I got emails this morning that ubuntu-motu-science and ubuntu-motu-tex mailing lists have been created
<dholbach> ubuntu-motu-tex?
<LaserJock> I sent a reply saying that I don't think the TeX list should be -motu- since most of the packages we're interested in are in Main
<dholbach> wouldn't ubuntu-tex have been good enough?
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> :-)
<LaserJock> I requested ubuntu-science and ubuntu-tex 2 months ago
<Burgundavia> dholbach: is there a way to get a community member to work ont eh mailing list situation?
<Burgundavia> especially given jono appears to have dropped off the face of the earth
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: which in partiuclar ML?
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: I have two people bugging me for mailng lists
<Burgundavia> -emacs and the UMC people
<dholbach> Burgundavia: I talked to him yesterday, he has not dropped off the face of the earth :)
<Burgundavia> right
<dholbach> Burgundavia: I don't know how community members could help with that
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> I know it is going to be moving to LP soonish
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yay! Finally.
<LaserJock> the whole thing?
<Burgundavia> the mailing list interface, at least
<StevenK> Yeah, but isn't isn't everything moving to LP "soonish"
<Burgundavia> pretty much
<LaserJock> I know they plan is to get mailman for teams soon
<LaserJock> *the
<Burgundavia> I am rather cynical about LP due dates
<LaserJock> heah, they are getting better
<dholbach> that's not really fair
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: I'm not so much any more, after they implemented the MOTU bug targetting stuff in just a couple of months.
<LaserJock> Joey's got them working on milestones
<LaserJock> and regular releases
<Burgundavia> right
<dholbach> and they're producing quality software
<Fujitsu> It seems to be working a bit, too.
<Burgundavia> there are good things happening
<dholbach> I can't remember a LP crash in the last time
<Burgundavia> ouch
<Burgundavia> I guess my memory still stretches back to 04 and 05
<LaserJock> I see all the bug work they do
<LaserJock> Rosetta is still taking a lot of resources
<Fujitsu> Every couple of months it'll go crazy for a few hours or over a weekend and be unusable.
<Fujitsu> It is a *lot* better than it used to be, though.
<somerville33> Hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey somerville33
* somerville33 blinks.
<somerville33> Oh, I'm somerville32
<LaserJock> hmm, is it an issue if I still have hdX and not sdX for hard drive partitions?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: No, not everything has transitioned to libata yet.
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<LaserJock> does that depend on the brand/model of hard drive?
<StevenK> No, of the IDE controller.
<LaserJock> ah, makes sense
<LaserJock> I wonder why mine hasn't, ah well
<StevenK> My IDE controller had, but I've jumped to a SATA drive since.
<LaserJock> I have an older IDE controller, I haven't "upgraded" to SATA ;-)
<LaserJock> blah
<LaserJock> I'm struggling to get my swap back
<LaserJock> so I can hibernate this laptop
<LaserJock> I stupidly let Fedora format my swap partition
<LaserJock> that's what I get I suppose
<LaserJock> anyway, good night all
<StevenK> LaserJock: You can read the UUID off of it
<LaserJock> I did
<LaserJock> but it seems it didn't like it or something
<LaserJock> I'll try a few more reboots tomorrow
<somerville32> What was that application that I was recommended to run to generate more entropy?
<StevenK> bonnie++
<somerville32> thanks
<somerville32> Hmm...
<somerville32> How quickly should it automagically work?
<somerville32> Oh
<somerville32> Question answered.
<dholbach> hum... is there any reason we should have a "pbuilder-etch create" section on PbuilderHowto?
<dholbach> I mean, I'm happy for it to be somewhere, but I think it's more confusing than anything else to new users
<RAOF> A sid one, maybe.  But etch?
<dholbach> but still I think it's confusing
<RAOF> Maybe a Sid one should be under "contributing to Debian" somewhere, but I agree that the etch one probably shouldn't be on PbuilderHowto
<somerville32> Is MoM not running anymore?
<somerville32> Oh, I was looking at multiverse
<icf7> Slightly OT: How can I (re)define a make variable in a make rule?
<BugMaN> hi all
<BugMaN> someone can update this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO with the "new status" because links on bitesize,packaging and more are break
<Fujitsu> BugMaN: They shouldn't be broken; they're meant to redirect.
<Fujitsu> Hm, right, they do break for some reason.
<BugMaN> Fujitsu: the new status in lp
<BugMaN> Fujitsu: the redirect must be change 
<Fujitsu> I don't think so. My links automatically redirect to the new statuses.
<Fujitsu> And that was mentioned in the spec or email.
<BugMaN> Fujitsu: Launchpad give me this error : Unexpected form data
<Fujitsu> I suspect something else has changed, but I have to leave now.
<BugMaN> Fujitsu: don't worry daniel carry it
<geser> dholbach: Hi. Is it ok to sync telepathy-mission-control 4.24 (or even 4.26) from Debian? (bug #120633)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120633 in telepathy-mission-control "Sync telepathy-mission-control 4.24-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120633
<dholbach> geser: yes
<geser> thanks, will update the bug
<dholbach> gracias
<dholbach> can somebody help out updating the links on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO ?
<dholbach> I changed some already - it's because of the LP status change that some don't work no more
<RainCT> :o is this change explained somewhere?
<LucidFox> Can Rosetta be used with Qt4 applications?
<geser> check the mail archives for ubuntu-bugsquad or ubuntu-devel-discuss
<geser> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-June/001186.html
<geser> has somebody an idea where I can download the multidistrotools?
<RainCT> and when will Triaged, Won't Fix  and Todo be added?
<LucidFox> Also, how is kdecopy different from normal qt4?
<BugMaN> RainCT: just now, or not?
<RainCT> no, I can't see them
<BugMaN> RainCT: yes, i see
<RainCT> geser: thanks
<TheMuso> geser: Multi distro rules?
<geser> TheMuso: see http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/
<TheMuso> geser: Thanks.
<geser> but the pages aren't updated anymore
* ajmitch returns
<ajmitch> that should be easy to fix
<ajmitch> it's just a cronjob on tiber
<geser> lucas said it was stopped due to resource limits
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> yes, cronjobs disabled
<ajmitch> siretart: was it killing things?
* ajmitch could probably run it at home
<siretart> ajmitch: we are having bandwith problems on tiber
<ajmitch> ok
<siretart> ajmitch: serverpronto is shaping us down becase we are causing more than 500g traffic/month
<ajmitch> I'll stick it on aurora (imbrandon's box)
<ajmitch> ah...
<siretart> which sucks
<ajmitch> I wonder if imbrandon would be open to us moving REVU onto there :)
<siretart> doko: you asked me on tuesday to remind you about an python2.5 upload to unstable today :)
<doko> siretart: you are wron
<doko> g
<doko> plus EWCHAN
<siretart> oh, indeed. sorry
<ajmitch> nixternal: diving in, I see
<geser> lucas: are the multidistrotools somewhere available for download?
<man-di> geser: in bzr
<lucas> well, just copy the dir in tiber:~lucas
<lucas> will be easier
<lucas> I'm not sure of the updateness of bzr
<lucas> or svn
<lucas> (there's an svn too, on alioth, since the long term goal is to get this into debian as a generic tool to follow derivatives)
<lucas> I could run that on people.d.o instead of tiber
<lucas> siretart: any ETA on the end of the bw problems on tiber?
<siretart> lucas: I'm still waiting on feedback from newz2000
<lucas> ok
<lucas> well, keep me updated. I don't mind moving that stuff to gluck
<lucas> but it's generally harder to get packages installed on gluck if something is missing
<siretart> lucas: I think if you can do it on gluck or alioth, better move it there, at least for now
<siretart> TBH, I'd prefer to relocate revu to somewhere else than tiber
<siretart> we still have problems with the machines regarding the kernel, and serverpronto seems to be not helpful at all with this regard
<geser> man-di: the one mentioned at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiDistroTools? I tried it but the server doesn't respond
<lucas> ok
<geser> lucas: I found the source at http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/pkg/multidistrotools/ but the .dsc and the .orig.tar.gz give a Forbidden (the deb can be downloaded)
<gnomefreak> can a revu admin remove adept from revu if it wasnt already removed by riddell (we had communication breakdown)
<lucas> geser: don't use that.
<lucas> geser: just copy the dir
<geser> lucas: I don't have a login on tiber, and can't find any other version at http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/
<lucas> so the best is probably to wait until the issues are sorted out
<joejaxx> Good Evening All
<lucas> or to bug siretart so that I can re-enable the crons :)
<joejaxx> i mean Morning
<geser> ok, will be patient then
<Fujitsu> geser: The latest mdt is probably in ~laserjock
<geser> Fujitsu: siretart pointed me already to his bzr repo of lucas' copy
<geser> Fujitsu: do you know what was changed?
<gnomefreak> jdong: are you around i would like to know if gnash is (by backports team able to be backported) i already have builds for it for feisty and seems to work good in feisty so far no issues that i know of.
<lionel> gnomefreak: I have filled a backport request for feisty. Also tested here and it works well
<gnomefreak> lionel: all i need is ok and ill send the sources for it
<gnomefreak> lionel: what bug number is it you filed for gnash backport?
<Fujitsu> geser: I'm not quite sure. It has been a while since I looked at lucas'
<lionel> gnomefreak: you are allowed to upload backports ?
<dholbach> gpocentek, ajmitch, crimsun: shall we auto-discard gutsy-changes-owner's mails?
<dholbach> gpocentek, ajmitch, crimsun: also ftp.debian.org-whateveritis?
<gnomefreak> lionel: no but i have them ready and can give them to someone that is allowed 
<lionel> gnomefreak: some source change is needed ?
<lionel> gnomefreak: Bug #120990
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120990 in feisty-backports "backport gnash 0.8.0~cvs20070611.1016-1ubuntu2" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120990
<gnomefreak> lionel: i believe there was some changes in control needed but i woul dhave to go back and look at it to be sure
<lionel> When I tested I did not have to change control file
<gnomefreak> lionel: give me a sec ill check
<gnomefreak> your right it was changed for gutsy.
<lionel> so if no changes are needed, backport is automatic (no manual upload I mean)
<ajmitch> dholbach: sounds good
* ajmitch sleeps
<highvoltage> goodnight ajmitch 
<zul_> toodles ajmitch 
<gnomefreak> if running prevu in feisty does it automaticly grab from gutsy?
<lionel> gnomefreak: you have to give prevu a .dsc
<lionel> give prevu gutsy .dsc
<gnomefreak> oh
<gnomefreak> so i have to grab .dsc of the package i want to build with it?
<xxxxx1> good morning all!
<gnomefreak> where would i put the .dsc?
<gnomefreak> would be nice if it stated that in instructions :(
<ScottK> nixternal: Thanks.  I'm on it.
<lionel> gnomefreak: in argument iirc
* gnomefreak thinks i like the simple way much better
<AnAnt> Hello, when is the next sync with Debian ?
<AnAnt> and how do I request a sync for a certain package ?
<lionel> gnomefreak: should be  DISTRO=feisty prevu http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gnash/gnash_0.8.0~cvs20070611.1016-1ubuntu2.dsc
<gnomefreak> AnAnt: normally file a bug report 
<lionel> autosync should run again
<gnomefreak> hmmm
<gnomefreak> ill play with it later, thank you
<lionel> gnomefreak: np :)
<gnomefreak> lionel: is prevu known not to work?
<lionel> hum... no
<gnomefreak> lionel: i get usage info when i run it
<gnomefreak> but nothing happens.
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: How are you running it?
<lionel> gnomefreak: I personnaly don't use prevu as I have a stock of pbuilder :)
<gnomefreak> DISTRO=feisty prevu http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gnash gnash_0.8.0~cvs20070611.1016-1ubuntu2.dsc
* Fujitsu uses sbuild+lvm
<Fujitsu> You probably have to have the source package locally.
<gnomefreak> than hell i will stick with the way i normally build
<gnomefreak> its easier
<Fujitsu> How?
<gnomefreak> dpkg-buildpackage
<gnomefreak> its worked for me for a while i dont see what prevu does that is better than that
<kane77> gcc is build dependency, I assume?
<Fujitsu> No. You don't build-depend upon anything that is in build-essential.
<kane77> I use script to show me all the packages a program depends on... and it showed gcc should I put it anywhere?
<man-di> kane77: the package build-essential and its dependencies are assumed to be installed
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Sbuild is good if you aren't using NFS shares to share your Ubuntu work between several machines...
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: What's wrong with that?
* TheMuso needs to hack up a script to work around that.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Getting the NFS share mounted in the sbuild chroot thats all.
<Fujitsu> My /home is on a LUKS partition and not in fstab. I just modify one of the things in /etc/schroot to mount it as well.
<TheMuso> One of the scripts in setup you mean?
<Fujitsu> /etc/schroot/setup.d/10mount
<TheMuso> Ah right.
<TheMuso> thought that was it.
<TheMuso> anyways, I'm off to bed.
<Fujitsu> Night.
<TheMuso> Night.
<jekil> someone can review please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5663
<ScottK> jekil: Is tablelist uploaded already?
<jekil> ScottK: is in NEW
<ScottK> jekil: Then this package still needs to wait on that to get out of NEW and into the repos so we can build it.
<ScottK> jekil: Your changes address my comments, so until I can build it, I don't have anything to add.
<jekil> ScottK: thanks, and how much time need a package to be moved to NEW into repos?
<ScottK> jekil: It varies depending on the backlog and how much other stuff the archive admins have to deal with.  You can see what's going on with NEW and where your package is in the queue here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue
<jekil> ScottK: thanks a lot :)
<mok0> I've added GNU autotools to a package. Is it better to keep it in the source dir, so it goes in .diff.gz, or is it better to create a dpatch file? The first is easier for me, since I can edit the files.
<ScottK> mok0: If you make a dpatch, you can edit the files using dpatch-edit-patch.
<persia> mok0: I'd recommend putting it in a patch, just to keep the package clean.  It's a little harder to edit, but it makes it easier to maintain the patch as new revisions, etc. are released.
<mok0> persia: ok, thanks!
<mok0> persia: I didn't know about dpatch-edit-patch, I'll try it out!
<persia> mok0: ScottK deserves the credit for that: his keyboard is faster :)
<mok0> Heh, I didn
<mok0> 't see that
<ScottK> nixternal: Uploaded with some very minor adjustment.  Thanks.
<mok0> Ooops it's my Cherry compact keyboard :)
<nixternal> no problem....glad I could help
<mok0> ScottK: thx :)
<mok0> ScottK: ... and thanks for reviewing my packages.
<ScottK> mok0: No, thank you for contributing.  We'll have you a MOTU in no time.
<mok0> ScottK: My ambition is to contribute to the science edition of Ubuntu.
<mok0> There's quite a lot of free software especially for bioinformatics
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<jekil> a virtual package needs copyright file? if yes is the copyright of tha packaging right?
<ScottK> mok0: Have you joined the Science team yet?
<mok0> Errr. I think so, but you have to be approved.
<mok0> I am still in the queue for that.
<ScottK> OK.  Dunno, just wanted to make sure you knew about it.
<Nafallo> damnit!
<Nafallo> just accidently send apt-cache show gnash to a channel.
<Nafallo> sent even
<mok0> ScottK: But I haven't figured out what the launchpad teams actually _do_ and how they work.
<ScottK> mok0: It depends on the team.  Generally ones like the science team are bug contacts for related packages.
<mok0> ScottK: I think it would be good to discuss what a science edition should contain, and how it should be organized.
<ScottK> mok0: Laserjock is the person to talk to.
<mok0> ScottK: I'll strike up a conversation with him when I meet him
<ScottK> Fujitsu: New python-scipy version is uploaded that actually builds with the current python-numpy.  Next question is, of course, does it work ...
<mok0> dpatch-edit-patch is COOL!
<ScottK> mok0: Welcome to a real packaging system.
<mok0> ScottK: ;-)
<mok0> Btw, what does ~ mean in package names?
<StevenK> It's a version seperator, that sorts lowest
<bmm> Hi everybody. I'm being told to remove the dependency on build in the install target in debian/rules. However, dh_make put it there from the beginnig
<bmm> Why is this still wrong and should I really remove this??
<bmm> (the package is ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5572 )
<somerville32> Does anyone know who ivoks is?
<Nafallo> yes
<bmm> persia: if you have time, could you reconsider advocating ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5572 ? Thanks!
<persia> bmm: You can safely ignore that.  In cases where build-stamp is not used, having dual rule dependencies can call a rule twice (and indeed "build" is called twice), but as build only depends on build-stamp, which should exist after the first build, there's not much waste, and nothing is likely to go wrong.
<somerville32> Nafallo: Who is it?
<bmm> persia: thanks!
<Nafallo> Ante Karamati
<Nafallo> somerville32: ^
<somerville32> Nafallo: Male? Female?
<Nafallo> Male
<Nafallo> how come?
<persia> bmm: If you ever have a debian/rules with build in .PHONY and actual commands in build:, these commands will be run twice, which may lead to unexpected results.
<somerville32> Nafallo: I wanted to know his gender so that I can refer to him with the proper pronoun 
<somerville32> Nafallo: Do you know if he is around often?
<bmm> persia: ah, good to know.
<somerville32> I'm working on wifi-radar and he has made quite a few superfluous ubuntu-specific changes and I was wondering if he ever passed it upstream
<Nafallo> hehe. usually daily
<Nafallo> ah :-)
<somerville32> Like... a lot of changes. lol
<Hobbsee> StevenK: will tell you about wifi-radar, iirc
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Hrm?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: werent you fixing lots of bugs in it before?
<StevenK> Not that I remember.
<StevenK> I get hit in the head a lot...
<somerville32> It is mostly ivoks and a bit of doko in the changelogs
<somerville32> But it appears that a lot of bugs were fixed by just patching the package instead of passing the patches upstream
<somerville32> For example, ivoks changed it so that it uses gtk.gdk.threads* instead of gtk.threads*
<somerville32> Modified the GUI to change how some text is displayed in a label
<persia> bmm: Commented, but not advocated.  My apologies for missing the issue previously.
<bmm> persia: NP, better to know it then having a broken upload
<somerville32> Why would he move the config file from /etc/wifi-radar/ to /etc/ ?
<persia> bmm: It might work as it is, but the buildd behaviour is best understood with the entrails of small animals, so it's best to be extra careful.
<bmm> persia: hehe. See the problem with the cp now, stupid when you look at it
<bmm> persia: as I'm uploading it again, I could just as wel fix the dependency thing in the debian/rules
<bmm> It won't break anything as far as I can see, and it might bring in another advocate
<bmm> persia: would you be ok with that?
<persia> bmm: Your call.  I don't think it needs to be fixed, but Jrmie does.  You might want to seek a third opinion, from someone more familiar with the internals of the package build scripts.  The presence or absence of that dependency will not affect my opinion of the package.
<bmm> Any MOTU: I'm looking for somebody with a strong opinion on build script internals and the templates of dh_make.
<StevenK> Just ask your question.
<bmm> In http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5572 the comment by jcorbier@ubuntu.com is telling me to remove a dependency in the debian/rules line
<bmm> This dependency was placed there by dh_make and doesn't brake anything. Should I honor the request and remove it or leave it there?
<PhinnFort> where can I get automake 1.6?
<PhinnFort> it doesn't seem to be available in the reps anymore
<Hobbsee> PhinnFort: you cant
<PhinnFort> meeeh
<persia> PhinnFort: Would any of automake1.4, automake1.7, aitomake1.8m automake1.9, or automake1.10 work for you?  There's an effort to reduce the number of versions shipped.
<Hobbsee> iirc
<mok0> bmm: Obey your MOTU you must
<Hobbsee> mok0: they both are MOTU's.
<PhinnFort> persia: I guess I could work around it...
<mok0> Ooops
<Hobbsee> :P
<persia> PhinnFort: That would be preferred.  If you really need it for a private project, you can get it from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/automake1.6/1.6.3-12, but packages built against this will not be accepted into Ubuntu at this time.
<PhinnFort> oh, ok
<PhinnFort> it's kcam, btw, rather old app
<bmm> mok0: I'm looking for the democratically chosen decision now. I've got a "don't care" and "do it", no others yet.
<PhinnFort> guess I have to hack on it a bit anyways
<mok0> dh_make is pretty crappy IMHO
<bmm> mok0: so you would advocate a package where the dependency was removed?
<mok0> yes
<somerville32> What should I do if debian and ubuntu have a similar patch but they do the opposite thing? lol
<bmm> ok :-D
<mok0> but I'm not a motu :-)
<bmm> I don't care anymore, I need some kind of decision here :-D
<persia> somerville32: In general, preserve the Ubuntu behaviour, unless there is a clear testcase why the Debian behaviour is better and more suited to an Ubuntu installation, in which case this should be documented in the changelog (and you should check to make sure you aren't reopening any bugs).
<Hobbsee> then again, our patches can be old
<Hobbsee> so it depends on waht it is, etc
<persia> Right.  I should amend that from "a clear testcase" to "a good reason".
<somerville32> It looks like the debian package is based off the ubuntu package with a few twists and now I'm  trying to make that ubuntu package be based off the debian package. wonderful.
<somerville32> *the
<PhinnFort> heh. it wanted automake 1.6 OR NEWER;)
<somerville32> If we've divided a patch into two and the debian patch is still in one file, should I just go back to the one file to reduce the delta?
<persia> PhinnFort: one of 1.9 or 1.10 is probably the best choice, so that the package doesn't need another update soon.
<PhinnFort> ok
<shawarma> somerville32: Why did we split it in the first place?
<PhinnFort> but now it wants autoconf 2.52, 2.53 or 2.54
<somerville32> shawarma: The only guess I can make is to make it more logical?
<shawarma> somerville32: It *possible* I guess, but unlikely.
<somerville32> brb
<shawarma> somerville32: If that truly is the reason, whoever did it should be introduced to Hobbsee's stick.
<persia> Were the two Ubuntu patches by the same author?
<somerville32> Yes and the original patch was too
<somerville32> (I believe)
<shawarma> Er.. Debian had one big patch... Some Ubuntu person split it up.. right?
<persia> shawarma: I'm not sure about that.  If Ubuntu packages something first (with two patches), and the Debian maintainer merges them (even though they touch different files), who needs poking?
<shawarma> persia: Oh, we did it first?
<somerville32> We packaged wifi-radar first
<shawarma> persia: I though the ubuntu delta was just "split this big patch into two".
<somerville32> The ubuntu package is not based off of debian's package.
<shawarma> Now *that* would be crack.
<somerville32> shawarma: I think that debian took our package.
<persia> shawarma: I totally agree with that :)
<shawarma> somerville32: Alright then. Just keep theirs.
<somerville32> As in debian's?
<shawarma> somerville32: Yup. Less work for us.
<somerville32> Can I drop the the gui patch too?
<shawarma> somerville32: That's just a general rule, though. There could of course be good reasons to keep it, but I havne't looked at the package.
<somerville32> -               self.current_network.set_text( "Connected to %s ip(%s)" % ( current_ssid, current_ip ) )
<somerville32> +               self.current_network.set_text( "Connected to %s (IP address: %s)" % ( current_ssid, current_ip ) )
<shawarma> somerville32: Does the changelog contain a bug reference that explains why that patch was introduced?
<shawarma> somerville32: It looks sort of pointless.
<persia> somerville32: You might want to hunt bugs for that.  If there was an "unclear language" bug, it makes sense to keep that delta.  If not, it doesn't.
<somerville32> bug #97447
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 97447 in wifi-radar "Formatting error in GUI" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97447
<Toadstool> g'morning!
<persia> somerville32: In that case, keep the delta (to keep the bug closed).
<shawarma> Alright then. Keep it, and make a clear note of it in the changelog (ie: Make sure the bug number is there)
<somerville32> I'll pass it upstream so that we can remove it later
<persia> Toadstool: Hi.  bmm was asking about the install: build dependency for ccbuild.  I don't see why it's bad, as build only depends on build-stamp (which can't be called twice because the build-stamp file exists the second time.  Do you strongly feel dh_make is wrong in this case?
<somerville32> doko: Hey
<Toadstool> persia: well, if you take a look at the buildlog in a pbuilder, it is called twice
<Toadstool> lemme double check
<persia> Toadstool: Right.  build is called twice, but it doesn't actually do anything the second time.  Now I want to check again :)
<bmm> persia Toadstool: I've uploaded a version with the build dependency removed. As you both don't seem to be against removing it, and the build still worked, I decided to remove it.
<ScottK> nixternal: python-scipy built on all archs.  Thanks again.
<bmm> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5685
<nixternal> woohoo!
<Toadstool> bmm: awesome.  I just wanna make sure it doesn't break anything in some weird build corner case though.  persia's fault :)
<ScottK> mok0: Your next upload (for btk-core) will just replace it, so there's no real need to nuke.  You've commented it doesn't need reviewing, so that's enough.
<persia> It builds for me, but I don't know that there isn't some tool out there that expects debian/rules install to do the right thing.
<mok0> ScottK: ok
<Toadstool> hmm even if I remove the dependency on build in install, build is called twice wtf
<persia> Toadstool: On review, I'm going to agree with you on this.  I'm really not sure why it doesn't block, but it appears to that both config.status and build-stamp are ignored (perhaps as out-of-date) for the second build call (but make all is not fooled, so it doesn't cause an issue).  Now I have another thing I don't like about dh_make to add to the list.
<bmm> Toadstool: even with the new upload? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5685
<mok0> This is probably a dumb question, but it seems packaging practices have changed. Instead of having debian/ in a diff, why not just have it in a tarball?
<Toadstool> bmm: yup
<ScottK> mok0: It's usually stored as diff.gz in the archives, so it is.
<persia> mok0: it's easier to apply a diff with patch, and there once wasn't dpatch-edit-patch or cdbs-edit-patch.  Now, it's too much trouble to change all the tools and retrain the four or five thoulsand people familiar with the old system.
<mok0> True
<bmm> Toadstool: weird, and it's going above my head at tismoment
<Toadstool> i'm quite confused too, actually
<mok0> But it seems there is an effort to separate the pristine sources from the packaging
<mok0> ... which is one thing I like about rpm
<ScottK> mok0: Yes.  Upstream stuff goes in orig.tar.gz and packaging stuff goes in /debian.
<ScottK> mok0: In fact most packaging repositories don't even keep the upstream stuff in their revision control system.  See the svn for Debian Python Modules Team as an example: http://python-modules.alioth.debian.org/
* mok0 looks
<mok0> wow
<ScottK> Good afternoon stratus.  Ironic you should show up now.  I mentioned DPMT svn as an example not 5 minutes ago.
<persia> The double build even occurs when building only for a single arch (and not calling binary-indep:).  Perhaps it's supposed to do that for some reason, although it seems new to me.
<Toadstool> I've never seen that before
<mok0> What to do if the upstream source comes in two packages?
<mok0> I mean two tar.gz's
<Sikon> mok0> can you build a separate deb package out of each one?
<persia> mok0: Generate two source packages.  Generally, one is safely -data.
<Sikon> on an unrelated note, what does "dfsg" in version numbers stand for, and what is it there for?
<mok0> I have a situation where the tarball contains patches and extra files to put onto another program
<ScottK> Sikon: Debian Free Software Guidelines - It means the source was repacked to remove stuff that wasn't dfsg Free.
<persia> mok0: Are they the same upstream?  If not, perhaps you could extract the patches into debian/patches, and credit the patchers in the dpatch comments and in debian/copyright.
<mok0> persia: no, different developers
<mok0> persia: but I think that's the way to go
<Sikon> what's better if I want to continue an abandoned SourceForge project - to file an APT request or to fork it under a different name?
<Sikon> (there was only one developer, who apparently disappeared completely in 2003)
<ScottK> If it's since 2003, I'd say just fork it unless you are aware of a significant user base.
<shawarma> Sikon: Which projecT?
<Sikon> KInk
<Sikon> granted, not much of a project - though I did port it to Qt4 and libinklevel 0.7 and eliminate the kdelibs dependency
<stratus> ScottK: re
<stratus> ScottK: somebody just unplugged my ac, I've no battery so go figure. :/
<ScottK> stratus: Lovely.  How's debconf?
<stratus> ScottK: cool, superb, hmm I'm really tired now and looking forward to finish some stuff in time to publish, pack my gear and go back home.
<stratus> ScottK: there's so much cool stuff going on
<ScottK> mok0: stratus is one of the founders of the Debian Python Modules Team.  He's also the guy that arm-twisted ^h ^h ^h ^h ^h inspired me to write https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam
<ScottK> stratus: Sounds great.  Enjoy.
<stratus> I've founded a lot of other stuff, but linux magazine also only pointed out DPMT. I don't know why. :-P
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> debmirror is imbrandon, right? :-)
<bmm> Any MOTU: ccbuild is looking for it's second advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5685 or comments ;-)
<slytherin> The latest gstreamer bad plugin package in gutsy is missing many new plugins. Should I file a bug for it?
<Sikon> my opinion is, if you think there's a bug, file a bug - they'll sort it out
<Nafallo> slytherin: that or speak to slomo :-)
<slytherin> Nafallo: Yes, I came here looking for him.
<slytherin> Nafallo: Looks like a small change is needed to .install file.
<Nafallo> oh my. he's offline again then :-P
<Nafallo> ehrm. bzr-builddeb borked?
<LaserJock> ok MOTU and Hopefuls, I need your help
<ScottK> Heya LaserJock, what's up?
<LaserJock> I need bugs in Launchpad that affect our work
<LaserJock> we have https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+bugs?field.tag=motu
<LaserJock> but I'd like to add some more bugs
<LaserJock> I've also got an older list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/Launchpad
<Nafallo> LaserJock: just for the sake of it, or because they actually exist? :-)
<LaserJock> because they actually exist
<LaserJock> I want to know if something about Launchpad is blocking your work
<LaserJock> or making it more difficult
<Nafallo> indeed. not that I'm aware of.
<Nafallo> except bzr should be smarter ;-)
<Nafallo> but already talked to ddaa about that :-9
<Nafallo> :-)
<geser> LaserJock: it's just wishlist but I'd like to see bug #92960 fixed (it's already on your wiki page under misc)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 92960 in soyuz ""Show builds" for source packages has a bad default" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92960
<LaserJock> Nafallo: yes, I agree
<LaserJock> I wonder if there is a bug for that
<Nafallo> no idea :-)
<Nafallo> if I have an ubuntubranch for all devs and then publish a specific branch for a bugfix it should use the first branch as a repo IMO. not upload everything again :-)
<LaserJock> geser: got it
<Nafallo> it doesn't even use repos for several branches of the same thing if you have team owned by the same user :-P
<Nafallo> AFAIK
<LaserJock> Nafallo: if you find a bug or file one for that I'll have a look. :-)
<Nafallo> I think I spoke to ddaa on IRC last time I got annoyed :-)
<LaserJock> Nafallo: bug #108386
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108386 in launchpad-bazaar "Use high-performance smart server for hosting bzr branches" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108386
<pochu> LaserJock: Bug #75391
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 75391 in malone "+packagebugs doesn't list packages for teams" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75391
<ScottK> LaserJock: Can we put NOT restricting setting In Progress and TODO to -dev members on that list?
<Nafallo> LaserJock: doesn't entirely solve it I'd guess, but it's a start :-)
<LaserJock> pochu: oh, that is a good one
<pochu> Sure it is :)
<LaserJock> ScottK: hehe, I'd rather not. That's more of a "make sure MOTU is kept in the loop better on those sorts of changes" than a bug
<leonel> can I work  on  bug  115687
<leonel> can I work  on  bug #115687
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115687 in sun-java6 "java6 update1 is released, please update" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115687
<pochu> LaserJock: bug 116309 seems trivial, but would be a good improve.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116309 in soyuz "LP: #nnnn should be linked to the bug report." [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116309
<LaserJock> what do you guys think about bug #32405 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 32405 in soyuz "Would be nice to have UI indication of upload status." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/32405
<pochu> LaserJock: looks interesting.
<LaserJock> that should allow REVU contributors to see the status of their uploaded packages better
<pochu> LaserJock: also bug 113963
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113963 in malone "the packagebugs columns should open the corresponding bugs list" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113963
<ScottK> LaserJock: Don't forget Bug #82745.  It's still out that AFAIK.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 82745 in malone "Not all tagged bugs show up in when querying by tag" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82745
<geser> LaserJock: do you know if bugs which are tracked for several ubuntu versions (e.g. security bugs) get shown in the normal bug list if the Ubuntu task gets closed?
<keescook> geser: frustratingly, they are not in the normal bug list, afaict.
<ScottK> LaserJock: About the status thing, I think it's better to talk about it now when it's not yet deployed than to wait and have another big mailing list flail followed by bugs that get wontfixed and some of us annoyed.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I agree
<LaserJock> geser: what do you mean by normal bug list?
<ScottK> LaserJock: I've got an unrelated issue for you with your motu-science hat on ...  We now (for the first time) have a python-scipy that builds with the current python-numpy.  I can tell you it builds, but not if it actually works.  Now would be a good time for some of you sciency types to test it...  It might be a good topic for your shiny new mailing list.
<geser> LaserJock: the "generic" buglist e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xchat/+bugs
<LaserJock> ScottK: ah, thanks.
<LaserJock> geser: so if the main task gets closed, even if other tasks are open, it doesn't show up?
<geser> only at the bugs list for the distro
<LaserJock> for example, the main task is "Fix Released" but there is a Feisty or Edgy task that is still "Confirmed"
<geser> I've an old example: bug #58564
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 58564 in php4-yaz "php4-yaz won't install (broken dependency)" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/58564
<LaserJock> ah
<pochu> LaserJock: right, though they will show up on bugs.lp.net/ubuntu/feisty and bugs.lp.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/<package>
<geser> it only appears on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/dapper/+source/php4-yaz/ but not on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php4-yaz/+bugs
<pochu> of course change feisty with <release>
<leonel> keescook:  can the   bug #115687 be raised  as security update ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115687 in sun-java6 "java6 update1 is released, please update" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115687
<LaserJock> geser: is there a bug report for that?
<geser> LaserJock: will look
<slytherin> Does anyone have any plan for packaging 'fop' from apache's xmlgraphics project?
<ScottK> slytherin: Look for a needs-packaging bug on LP.
<slytherin> ScottK: Ok.
<ScottK> If you decide to work on it slytherin, then file one that says so so no one else starts...
<keescook> leonel: sure, mark it as such and attach any CVEs you can find for it.
<slytherin> ScottK: I am very new to packaging and I don't know what is usually policy for java bsed apps.
<LaserJock> slytherin: I don't think fop is able to make it into the repos
<leonel> keescook: and ... that update how can be done  ?  it' depends  from the jdk distros    or  is there a team working on that package ?
<LaserJock> slytherin: it *might* be able to go into Multiverse. You should check to make sure Ubuntu is free to distribute it
<slytherin> LaserJock: Why, is there any problem with it's licensing?
<leonel> keescook: there's a lock in  importance   
<keescook> leonel: I have no idea.  perhaps ask doko?
<leonel> keescook:  ok
<leonel> doko: ping 
<LaserJock> slytherin: yes
<slytherin> LaserJock: :-(
<doko> ubuntu usually follows debian policy for java packages
<slytherin> LaserJock: I have no idea about why fop should be in multiverse. Anyway, I will file a bug. Let's see if anyone picks up.
<LaserJock> slytherin: it isn't Free in the Debian sense
<slytherin> LaserJock: Please give me particular reason. I am not very familiar with Debian's definition of Free.
<LaserJock> slytherin: I don't remember the particulars
<slytherin> LaserJock: Ok.
<LaserJock> slytherin: http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
<leonel> and how can we get  the sun-java fixed ?
<leonel> what can I do ?
<slytherin> leonel: What do you mean by fixed?
<leonel> slytherin: get http://download.java.net/dlj/binaries/jdk-6u1-dlj-linux-i586.sh   packaged for ubuntu 
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> my routing to aurora is kind of strange :-)
<leonel> slytherin:  it fixes  bug #115687 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115687 in sun-java6 "java6 update1 is released, please update" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115687
<aquo> hi
<Nafallo>  8:  195.54.125.173  asymm 14 173.338ms 
<Nafallo> 1684234849:  195.54.123.49   asymm 13 -184817.-421ms 
<Nafallo> 10:  195.54.125.190  asymm 11 213.238ms 
<Nafallo> :-P
<aquo> is there some documentation on remastering ubuntu install media?
<slytherin> leonel: I don't think it will make to fiesty. Is that affecting your work?
<leonel> not my work  
<leonel> slytherin: my   net surfing   since I have the javaplugin enabled
<ScottK> Once it's in Gutsy it might be possible to get it in feisty-backports
<leonel> slytherin:  and  many  users  out there
<slytherin> leonel: The reason I asked, what fix do you think in the new release is essential for standard users?
<aquo> if you don't have any clue for me, maybe can you give me contact information to somebody who is responsible for mastering install media ...
<aquo> does anybody know where i can find the xubuntu seeds for germinate?
<LaserJock> aquo: you can find info on remastering on the wiki
<aquo> LaserJock: where?
<LaserJock> aquo: and the seeds are at launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+branches
<leonel> slytherin: http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-26-102934-1
<aquo> LaserJock: that are just the seeds for ubuntu
<LaserJock> aquo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomization and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization
<LaserJock> aquo: no
<LaserJock> aquo: that has seeds for all the official derivs
<aquo> ah, nice
<aquo> that is what i searched fo.
<slytherin> leonel: Then mark that bug as 'security vulnerability' bug
<cbx33> any people wanting to discuss vcsfrenzy we're meeintg now in #vcsfrenzy
<slytherin> leonel: I added the CVE link to that bug
<jussi01> evening all
<leonel> slytherin:  great !   do you think   we can get the new  java 6 ?
<leonel> slytherin: or  what can I do  to get it done ?
<slytherin> leonel: I am not a motu, just another user. Al you can do is wait.
<leonel> slytherin:  :(
* jussi01 slaps annoying copyright stuff...
<leonel> ScottK: do you have a buildable clamav  0.90.3  package  for  dapper 
* leonel slaps  annoying  waits  :)
<jussi01> lol
<ScottK> leonel: I haven't built one, but it's not hard.
<ScottK> There are only two changed you need to make in debian/control.
<Nafallo> aurora down?
<leonel> ScottK: so  replace  the source and edit  deban/control  from the  88.2 ?
<ScottK> leonel: No.
<ScottK> I'll tell you the change, just need a second to look it up.
<leonel> ScottK: not urgent !
<leonel> ScottK:  i mean  not need to be now  just  i'd like  to have  a buildable  a newer clamav for dapper  and  keep the latest  there 
<ScottK> leonel: You need to change the build-dep for dpkg-dev to match the version in Dapper and change the dep in one of the binary packages from {binary:Version} to {source:Version} (or something very close to that) and it should work.  I did it with 0.90.1.
<slytherin> slomo: ping
<bmm> zakame: If you get back online, I've uploaded a new version of an earlier advocation by you, adapting for the comments given. See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5685 if you have some spare time. Thanks!
<leonel> ScottK:  I had problems  with clamav-test  package
<leonel> ScottK: thank you 
<tsmithe> hi; could i ask for some reviews?
* tsmithe gets the list of packages in question
<tsmithe> in fact, hang on...
<mshima> ScootK: man page is needed for grandr?
<mshima> ScootK: There is no command parameter
<ScottK> mshima: Yes for the man page.
<ScottK> mshima: Even if the man page is just a stub that points you to where the real information is, it's still required by policy.
<mshima> ScootK: Ok
* ScottK didn't enjoy that particular policy very much when I started packaging either, but it's there and it actually makes sense even if it is annoying.
<ScottK> mshima: ScottK, not ScootK.  Tab completion is your friend.
<mshima> ScottK: thks
<geser> mshima: are you aware of the Debian ITP for grandr? http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2007/06/msg01044.html
<geser> and there is a applet for the gnome panel which is also called grandr (but luckily is installed in /usr/lib/gnome-panel/)
<mshima> geser: Didn't know
<mshima> geser: This means Ubuntu will wait for debian package?
<geser> not necessarily, you can still package it
<mshima> ok
<geser> but it's better to work with Debian on it to not duplicate work
<ScottK> Since we are past Debian import freeze for Gutsy, there's no harm in finishing the package here for Gutsy and then working with the Debian packager to get into Debian.  You just synch over the Ubuntu package for Gutsy +1
<mshima> great
<mshima> how dh_installman works?
<Kmos> mshima: man dh_installman
<ScottK> in debian/rules a line that says dh_installman [filename_with_path_in_the_package] 
<geser> ScottK: we still can sync packages from Debian but is has to be requested by a bug
<geser> new packages can be synced till end of august
<ScottK> geser: Yes.  That's true.  He could do it either way.
<somerville32> Whats the command to filter patches?
<ScottK> It certainly wouldn't hurt to e-mail the person that filed the ITP and discuss it.
<geser> the ITP was done by David Nusinow, part (or even head) of the Debian X.org Team
<ScottK> Well that's a good argument for letting him do it if his schedule supports Gutsy.  Lenny's got a long run to go so he may not be on our timeline.
<ScottK> Apparently we've been defying Microsoft again: http://news.digitaltrends.com/news/story/13317/ubuntu_defies_microsoft although the story appears to be poorly researched in some aspects (read the comments), so who knows.
<mshima> Uploading
<mshima> no lintian warnings :)
<ScottK> mshima: For the .deb too?
<mshima> ScottK: Didn't try
<ScottK> mshima: Do that.  That's where the last batch I commented on came from.
<mshima> ScottK: Ok
<mshima> ScottK: 1 more
<mshima> ScottK: done
<ScottK> Make sure the new package builds and check the .deb again...
<mshima> built ok, installed ok, trying at pbuilder now
<mshima> built successfully at pbuilder
<tsmithe> does a new package to ubuntu have to have a changelog with only one entry? ubuntu studio's art packages have more than one as they've been around for a while, in a separate repository
<tsmithe> i'm currently looking at getting them reviewed and uploaded
<mshima> ScottK: lintian (source and binary) ok, pbuilder ok.. anything else?
<ScottK> mshima: Probably not.  I don't have time to look at it again now, however.
<mshima> ScottK: no problem
<ScottK> tsmithe: Not sure if they HAVE to, but that's generally how it's done.
<tsmithe> ok. i'd rather not mangle them, really
<ScottK> tsmithe: From an Ubuntu perspective, the packages are new, so it's really irrelevant.  If you want to preserve the history, put it on a web site somewhere.
<tsmithe> hmm ok
<tsmithe> they are going to be native as well, so i guess i will
<ScottK> mshima: Took a look at the diff.  From your man page.. "+grandr \- program to do something" - A little too generic I think.  Additionally, it's probably worth at least mentioning how to start the program (even if it's click on the buttin in $SECTION of the menu).
<mshima> I have changed that
<mshima> ought
<mshima> one minute
<mok0> Heh! I have a clean slate now. Seven packages in REVU, revised and ready for another round of reviewing.
<mshima> ScottK: don't have a .desktop for now
<ScottK> mshima: How does one start the program then?
<mshima> terminal :) I will create a .desktop
<ScottK> mshima: However one starts it ought to be in the man page.
<mshima> ScottK: should I put this in the Description?
<ScottK> No, in the man page.
<mshima> In the description in the man page
<mshima> ?
<ScottK> Oh.  
<ScottK> I'd add a section for it.
<ScottK> mok0: Congratulations on getting your first package into Ubuntu.
<mok0> ScottK: yay!
<mok0> Time for a beer :-)
<Toadstool> :-)
<poningru> beer?
<poningru> where?
* poningru wants beer
* mok0 offers a virtual beer
* lousygarua grabs beer
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: fine, I'm here
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: right, that bug
<Burgundavia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/809
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 809 in launchpad "Easy way to request packages" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
<ajmitch> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
* ajmitch grovels
<Burgundavia> I would just close it, if that workflow works for the MOTU
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I think it does
<mshima> ScottK: uploaded
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's ok,  by the time I care enough to get back to ubuntu, my -dev & -core-dev membership will have expired :)
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: we've replaced that big scary wiki page with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<Burgundavia> closed bug and marked spec as obsolete
<Spec> yeah, i am obsolete.
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: coolio
<Burgundavia> Spec: you chose the nick :)
<Toadstool> wow, Hobbsee and LaserJock core devs? congrats'!
<bashelier> doko: around?
* Toadstool is catching up on what happened recently
<Toadstool> bashelier: if it is about gcc, I think there is an #ubuntu-toolchain chan
<bashelier> Toadstool: ok thanks :)
<xxxxx1> bye all!
<somerville32> Toadstool!! :)
<Spec> Burgundavia: years and years ago, when i was 13 and didn't know about linux ^.^
<Fujitsu> You didn't know about Linux when you were 13? Aw...
<qball> did linux exist then?
<ScottK> It certainly didn't exist when I was 13.
<ScottK> When I was 13, I think there were S100 bus 8080 computers available, but certinaly no Linux.
<ScottK> And I had to walk to school through the snow up hill, both ways... ;-)
<qball> ScottK: up hill both coming and going to school?
<Fujitsu> qball: Yes, the topology biased itself against people walking. Those were the days!
<mok0> ScottK: Why didn't you walk in the opposite direction? 
* somerville32 cheers as he makes progress
<Toadstool> hey somerville32 
<somerville32> How are you?
<Toadstool> quite good, you?
<jrib> anyone willing to be the second reviewer of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5639 ?  Thanks in advance
<somerville32> I'm doing alright :)
<nixternal> MOTU: bug 121640 needs an upload please...thanks
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121640 in ksensors "Please merge Ksensors (0.7.3-14) from Debian(main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121640
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-22
<pochu> Any MOTU to ACK bug 119995? :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119995 in deluge-torrent "Sync deluge-torrent (0.5.1.1-1) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119995
<persia> pochu: Is this required?  I thought that there was still one more run of the autosync planned (and deluge-torrent has no Ubuntu changes).
<pochu> Hmm, right.
<pochu> persia: it was a 'please package new upstream version', renamed to 'please sync ...' now that it's been packaged in Debian.
<pochu> I'll take care of it, thanks anyway!
<persia> pochu: Thanks.  I'm unsubscribing U-U-S.  If it misses the freeze, please add a Rationale justifying the sync, and resubscribe.
<ajmitch> the freeze is a few weeks off still
<ajmitch> DebianImportFreeze isn't really a freeze as such
<persia> ajmitch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule reports the "freeze" starting 21st June.  Is this no longer correct?  Was a mechanism built to distinguish main from universe for sync?
<ajmitch> persia: sure, but that's just disabling the autosync
<ajmitch> and no, there's definitely no plans to break universe by keeping syncing on
* ajmitch would say it's best just to leave sync requests open just in case
<ajmitch> but archive admins may disagree :)
<persia> ajmitch: OK.  That's what I thought.  I'm just under the impression that U-A doesn't need to be subscribed to sync requests with no Ubuntu changes until after the last run (and thought there was some issue with the script that delayed the last run).
<geser> get fake-syncs a build1 or ubuntu1 suffix? it's some time since I did the last fake-sync
<ajmitch> build1
<geser> do I keep the old ubuntu changelog entries?
<ajmitch> if you wish, it won't matter on the next actual sync
<nosrednaekim> hey... are there any python apps that need to get coded/ worked on?
<_MMA_> !seen imbrandon
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen imbrandon - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Nafallo> ubotu: seen imbrandon
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen imbrandon - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Nafallo> baah
* geser wonders why bugs with status "triaged" are hide from default bug listings
<_MMA_> He's been gone for like 10 days. Some sited he hosts are down. :(
<_MMA_> *sites
<Nafallo> _MMA_: lika aurora, correct?
<_MMA_> Im not sure with that one.
<_MMA_> His repo as well as Ubuntu Studio.org are down.
<Nafallo> I couldn't reach it today... but could be bad routing :-/
<joejaxx> i think it might be routing
<Nafallo> I wanted to build gajim :-P
<geser> aurora sees to be dead for a few days now
<Nafallo> I'll guess I'll just have to wait for my two ordered raptors and build my server :-)
<geser> but sparky still works
<_MMA_> Hmm.. I sent him a email yesterday. Hope he's ok.
<luisbg> how can someone check with ubotu when somebody was here for the last time?
<pochu> Is that possible?
<Nafallo> luisbg: seems we couldn't :-P
<luisbg> pochu, should be
<luisbg> Nafallo, :(
* pochu has never seen that
<Nafallo> -ENOSEVEAS
<pochu> geser: bug #121636
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121636 in launchpad "when a bug is marked as triaged it desapears" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121636
<Nafallo> people are missing :-P
<Nafallo> what is this?
<Nafallo> Microsoft started doing like in that movie...
<Nafallo> ?
<pochu> Good night folks!
<geser> _MMA_: my log has seen imbrandon three days ago
<StevenK> Nafallo: Antitrust ?
<Nafallo> StevenK: right. that's the name :-)
* StevenK has it on DVD at home.
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
<_MMA_> geser: Thanx. Hopefully he's ok.
<geser> Nafallo: if you still remember him it's not that bad
<Nafallo> geser: :-)
<geser> if an upload is rejected and accepted at the same time will it stay in this state as long as nobody looks at it?
<StevenK> If it was rejected and later accepted, it should hit the archive.
<geser> both mails are dated Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:05:22 -0000
<geser> see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26686/
<StevenK> Okay, I suggest you talk to a member of -archive when they re-surface.
<ajmitch> uploaded twice?
<geser> only one upload
<ajmitch> ah, that's an interesting error
<geser> perhaps soyuz is doing experiments with quantum physics :)
<ajmitch> asked in #launchpad about the breakage?
<geser> not yet
<_MMA_> geser: I called Brandon. He should pop on in a couple of hours. (he's out with the family)
<Nafallo> _MMA_: he was find otherwise?
<_MMA_> Yes. :)
<Nafallo> s/nd/ne/
<Nafallo> :-)
<ajmitch> he seemed just fine last time I saw him online
<nixternal> email came through about some soyuz breakage today
<nixternal> to find out when someone was last online, you can also do ->   /msg seenserv seen nick
<StevenK> I thought SeenServ was neutered?
<nixternal> it works for me
<nixternal> hrmm
<StevenK> Fair enough. Maybe it was killed on OFTC.
<nixternal> either is says they are online or they haven't seen someone recently
<ajmitch> nixternal!
<nixternal> ok, it is working
<nixternal> ajmitch!
<ajmitch> so you've applied
* ajmitch chuckles
<nixternal> haha, why in the hell am I getting that same response from everyone?
<nixternal> man, and you can't revert a sent email....I need +1 not :D 
<ajmitch> maybe we should just flip a coin to vote
<nixternal> see, it doesn't pay to follow at all...when you follow the advice of a few, you get laughed at
<StevenK> nixternal: Well, you can, but only if you control the recieving mail server. :-P
<nixternal> well the laugh to positive vote ratio is probably worse than the 50/50 chance with a coin ;p
<ajmitch> nixternal: I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you...
<ajmitch> convince me that you're ready to be a MOTU
<nixternal> hahahaha, ya OK
<nixternal> convince me you are ready to ask that question ;p
<ajmitch> I don't need to, I just have to vote :)
<nixternal> well, if I don't get MOTU I am going back to Microsoft...so pretty pretty please
<nixternal> how is that?
<nixternal> ;)
<ajmitch> shiny vista?
<StevenK> Awww, nixternal didn't mention me in his application.
<nixternal> nah, ME
<nixternal> damn, I didn't
<nixternal> StevenK, ScottK
<ajmitch> StevenK: aw
<nixternal> both start with a big S and end with a big K
<ajmitch> anyway, I have to go out for an hour, back later
<ajmitch> at least come up with a decent bribe for a change
<nixternal> haha
<StevenK> nixternal: I didn't know you were that masochistic.
<ajmitch> I'm getting sick of noone being generous
<nixternal> I will us Gnome!
<nixternal> s/us/use
* ajmitch will return
<nixternal> ajmitch: what do you need?
<nixternal> as long as it is under $5
<ajmitch> --> lunch
<nixternal> deal!
<nixternal> I will send out my private jet in the morning
* StevenK ponders sending a mail to motu-council
<leonel> is there a howto  update   sun-java  ??
<bluefoxicy> I have thunderbird.
<bluefoxicy> I deleted stuff out of my lkml mailing list folder.  There's now 86,000 messages in my trash and 97,000 still in the folder.
<bluefoxicy> I have, total, over one quarter million e-mails.  @_@
<jmg> bluefoxicy: clearly you should unsubscibe some stuff :)
<leonel> don't you have a  howto  update  sun-java ?
<bluefoxicy> jmg:  Well I've got nearly as many total from all the ubuntu mailing lists too ;)
<jmg> bluefoxicy: refer previous statement ;)
<LaserJock> leonel: what are you looking for?
<leonel> to update  sun-java6 to   the  new version  
<LaserJock> there is no documentation for that really
<leonel> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate  using  this 
<somerville32> When doing a merge, how do I generate the diff that only shows the changes between the debain and ubuntu package?
<leonel> LaserJock: I didn't  found any
<LaserJock> somerville32: yes
<StevenK> somerville32: debdiff
<somerville32> Thank you! :)
<somerville32> I knew I was forgetting something
<LaserJock> somerville32: blah, I thought you said "do" rather then "how do" ;-)
<StevenK> Heh
<Toadstool> Need to get 1234MB of archives. After unpacking 870MB will be used. <-- er great, I love gutsy :)
* ajmitch returns
<LaserJock> leonel: you should look at the Ubuntu Packaging Guide and also the Debian Java Policy (on www.debian.org/devel/ )
<ajmitch> Toadstool: nightly apt-get -dy dist-upgrade is a good thing :)
<Toadstool> this is what I am going to do
<LaserJock> anybody running gutsy on a "production" machine yet?
<ajmitch> of course
<TheMuso> No way.
<leonel> LaserJock: ok  I was looking for a  sun-java  packaging howto 
<ajmitch> is my home desktop not 'production' enough?
<TheMuso> I may run a Live CD, or on a box that I don't care falls over, but certainly not for day to day use./
<LaserJock> leonel: there is none
<jrib> gutsy stays in a vm for me
<somerville32> I can filter out po delta right?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I'm finding it hard to develop for gutsy when I'm not running it ;-)
<leonel> gutsy in  "production"  now  are for  MACHOs only ... :)
<LaserJock> I was thinking of dist-upgrading the laptop
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Chroots. :)
<LaserJock> blah
<LaserJock> schroot kicks my butt and I don't have a lot of room for it
<TheMuso> LaserJock: How does it kick your but? It is really not that hard to set up.
<LaserJock> it has issues with mounting
<ajmitch> LaserJock: runs fine on my laptop
<ajmitch> I've had less problems with gutsy than with other systems
<ajmitch> true, I do still have to drop to the initramfs shell to boot my desktop :)
<LaserJock> a lot of the time I can't chroot in with schroot
* StevenK has three gutsy chroots here, 2 with pbuilder and one with schroot for sbuild
<LaserJock> well, maybe I'll stick with schroot for now
<ajmitch> wimp
<ajmitch> just go all the way
<LaserJock> if it wasn't for my wife having to use it I would
<ajmitch> we're almost at tribe 2, gutsy is rock solid
* jrib saves quote
<jmg> ha
<ajmitch> apart from compiz being a little strange lately my desktop is running smoothly
<LaserJock> well, I can't use compiz anyway
<ajmitch> compiz was slowing other stuff down, so I turned it off
<TheMuso> I don't regret switching to sbuild/LVM.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I really dislike dealing with that kind of thing
<LaserJock> I've had lots of trouble with LVM
<LaserJock> so I never got to sbuild/LVM
<ajmitch> use LVM on loopback
<LaserJock> hmm, that sounds a little crazy
<LaserJock> maybe I should blow away this Fedora 7 partition I've got
<AndyP> keep it simple, i say
<AndyP> hi folks, btw
<jrib> hi
<LaserJock> well, bottom line is my laptop sucks for development work
<LaserJock> so I ssh into my "server" for everything
<LaserJock> perhaps I should upgrade that to gutsy
<ajmitch> I hardly use my laptop for real work
<ajmitch> it's just too slow compared to my desktop
<ajmitch> laptop drives generally suck
* TheMuso uses his laptop as a gateway to his other boxes for real dev work.
<AndyP> i use my laptop for most stuff, mostly because my desk is incredibly uncomfortable and i can use my laptop on my bed
<AndyP> they're similar in performance, really
* StevenK does all his development on his desktop, it being a 3GHz amd64 and the laptop being a pithy 1.3GHz Pentium M
<LaserJock> yeah, but it makes it hard to do testing, IMO, when you're ssh'd into everywhere
<ajmitch> StevenK: I have a similar difference
<StevenK> I tend to do most development sitting in front of it.
<ajmitch> dualcore amd64 vs a 2GHz pentium M
<LaserJock> hmm
<ajmitch> plus the deskotp just plays games better
<LaserJock> mine is AMD 1800+ vs 2.6GHz Celeron
<StevenK> I am seriously pondering a Core 2 Duo CPU, but I doubt the motherboard supports it.
<ajmitch> it won't
<ajmitch> you'll need a new motherboard, new RAM
<ajmitch> unless you've got ddr2 ram for that amd64
<ajmitch> yay, found a cheap(ish) 20" lcd
<ajmitch> should I get it?
<jrib> only if you can return it if you don't like it
<zul_> hey
<StevenK> ajmitch: Well, either that or a Pentium 4 D that supports both long mode and is dual core.
<LaserJock> I was thinking of getting a 17" LCD for my desktop machine but then I rarely sit in from of it so...
<ajmitch> only 17"?
* TheMuso uses a 22" widescreen LCD with his desktops.
* ajmitch was using a 21" CRT & a 20" LCD
<ajmitch> then the CRT died
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, it's got a 17" CRT now
* StevenK has a 17" LCD on his desktop
<zul> im getting a new hard drive for my laptop soon..
* ajmitch only has a 17" lcd at work
<StevenK> I quite like the MAG 20" LCD I have at work
<ajmitch> the dell 20" LCD at home is nice
<LaserJock> I'm just saving my pennies for a new laptop and desktop
<LaserJock> if I don't spend anything on "goodies" then maybe I can get a whole new system
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I've been tempted to just get a new system as well
* Nafallo had a failing systemdrive, so has to buy new ones :-/
<ajmitch> but there's no way I can justify it
<LaserJock> I haven't bought a new system in 3-4 years
<zul> argh it never ends
<LaserJock> and I think I've spent <$100 in that time on computer parts
<Nafallo> but then again... I could buy them from a friend who has great prices through a company ;-)
<TheMuso> I haven't bought a brand new system since jan uary 2004.
<TheMuso> january even
<LaserJock> you must have gotten a nice one
<TheMuso> I have obtained second hand systems, but not new.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: It was my notebook.
<TheMuso> The year before, I got a P4 desktop.
<Nafallo> hmm. last time I bought new was darkelf in 2004 :-)
<LaserJock> last desktop I got was 5 years ago at walmart
<LaserJock> last (first) laptop was a $800 toshiba 3 years ago
<Nafallo> she went up in flames this year :-P
<TheMuso> The two boxeS I have obtained second hand are both PoewrPC.
<TheMuso> PoewrPC even
<TheMuso> damn typing
<LaserJock> PowerPC
<Nafallo> PPC
<Nafallo> :-)
<TheMuso> anyways... yeah
* TheMuso loves non-intel architectures.
<Nafallo> oh! last new system I bought was actually MIPS :-)
* Nafallo remembers now :-)
<LaserJock> TheMuso: really?
<somerville32> Something is wrong.
<LaserJock> like as in AMD or as in non-i386
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yes. We are overrun by Intel, so learning about systems that use other CPU types, and have other ways of booting etc is refreshing for me.
<TheMuso> Sorry, non-x86.
<Nafallo> non-x86* I'd guess :-)
* TheMuso looks forwrad to the day that we ditch the BIOS.
<TheMuso> And use something like EFI.
<LaserJock> I've got a sparc machine, but I haven't done anything with it because I don't have a Sun keyboard
<somerville32> I'm using MoM to merge wifi-radar and there is no diff file for the debian package.
<ajmitch> somerville32: you could merge it manually
<ajmitch> ah, the days before MoM
<somerville32> : O
<somerville32> Merge... manually! Such ludicrous!
* ajmitch thinks all MOTUs should be able to do merges without MoM
<LaserJock> yes
<ajmitch> then again, I still think that MOTUs should be able to package something new & upload it unsupervised
<ajmitch> I'm just oldfashioned
<LaserJock> I was looking at Gentoo development docs the other day
<zul> er why?
<LaserJock> and they have a couple "tests"
<LaserJock> zul: I was looking for how many devs they have for a LUG presentation I was giving
<ajmitch> zul: why what?
<zul> LaserJock: those "tests" are really easy to past because the answers have been passed around alot
<LaserJock> I imagine
<leonel> I give up for now  in java updating  ..
<lifeless> ajmitch: I agree; but thats part of the dont sponsor folk that aren't ready; and do object to folk that aren't ready.
<leonel> too many ways to patch or make packages and ...  I  couldn't  do it ..
<leonel> i give up.
<ajmitch> lifeless: I know, it's mostly common sense
<AndyP> i got made a fedora maintainer today
<LaserJock> interesting
<AndyP> but don't hold it against me :)
<lifeless> commiserations
<LaserJock> I was going to learn to do .rpms from openSUSE
<leonel> rpms are easy to do
<LaserJock> but then Fedora 7 came out so I thought I'd give it a try
<leonel> i'm strugging with debs
<LaserJock> I can do debs
<LaserJock> I've never done an .rpm
<zul> ebuilds are dead easy even my wife can do it.
<zul> if she knew how to use linux that is..
<zul> anyways
<LaserJock> heh
<TheMuso> I'd love to get my whole family onto Linux.
<LaserJock> well, my wife uses it
* StevenK has managed to get his sister-in-law running Ubuntu.
<AndyP> yeah .rpm is pretty simple but it's just not as documented or readable as deb packaging imho
<TheMuso> AndyP: They use spec files or someting don't they?
<leonel> andyp ??  there's too much info and too many ways to do a deb  and I can't do a  simple update to sun-java  
<leonel> I feel  really  bad  right now .
<leonel> all day lost in this \
<AndyP> TheMuso: yeah, that's the one
<zul> leonel: is that your first deb?
<TheMuso> AndyP: How easy are they to master?
<leonel> zul  had some  patched  debs    
<leonel> zul  before 
<zul> if its your first or real deb I would start with something easier
<AndyP> TheMuso: it's like debian/control, debian/rules and debian/changelog in one file, not too difficult really... although i can't say i've really mastered the art :)
<StevenK> TheMuso: A spec is mostly cat debian/* > spec, with some style changes, and the {post,pre}{inst,rm} having had lobotomies.
<leonel> zul  i've patched clamav    I though  I could   update   sun-java  since  there's only binary packages  to replace  
<TheMuso> AndyP: Ah ok.
<ajmitch> StevenK: it's ugly
<leonel> zul  but  clamav  works  one way   sun-java  other way   
<ajmitch> one of the few things I like about it is that there's a standard for rpm patches
<leonel> ajmitch: and  another good things  is that  you can  put  a package like " clamav "  and  there's no breaking  things  since  there are not  much packages  
<TheMuso> AndyP: So what interest do you have in being involved with Fedora and Ubuntu?
<leonel> i'm starting to think  I'm not  good  for  this  work 
<LaserJock> leonel: don't just give up on it
<LaserJock> leonel: did you go through the Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
<StevenK> ajmitch: That too. I hate reading spec files
<leonel> LaserJock:  read some  but there's  so much info  that I don't know what  to  apply for  any task 
<TheMuso> O/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<leonel> found some recepies  for  some packages and don't work on other packages  
<AndyP> TheMuso: i develop a backup tool called pybackpack, which i'm maintaining in debian (via sponsor) and fedora... that's about as far as my interest in fedora goes but ubuntu is what i use every day and has a more welcoming community so i prefer to make more contributions to it and get more deeply involved with it
<TheMuso> AndyP: Right.
<leonel> I'm  really  LOST  or ...  Desperated housewife ??  :-P
<StevenK> AndyP: Really? You find the community between Fedora and Ubuntu to be quite different?
<somerville32> me too
<LaserJock> leonel: I'd just go through the Packaging Guide first before trying to apply it to things
<Spec> StevenK: well, i like reading spec files. 
<LaserJock> lol
<AndyP> StevenK: not that different, but ubuntu certainly has the edge in my book
<jrib> leonel: take a close look at using cdbs if you can too.  I ignored it when I first started, but it makes things so much easier if it's an easy package
<leonel> thanks jrib 
<leonel> well  I  leave now 
<jrib> leonel: oh an the "hello" package is a nice example to look at too
<leonel> before  I quit  doing  this
<StevenK> AndyP: I've got my own opinions of the Debian and FreeBSD communities, I was just curious how Fedora compares.
<leonel> thanks  jrib
<StevenK> Heck, the FreeBSD community is one reason I refuse to run it.
<AndyP> StevenK: to be fair, my experience with the fedora community is probably too shallow to compare them properly, but then that's probably the difference i'm describing - ubuntu is easier to get more deeply involved with
<StevenK> Yeah, okay, I've noticed that, just based on what I've seen and read.
<StevenK> That was one thing that rubbed me the wrong way, prior with Fedora 7. Community involvement with Fedora Core seemed to be ... not much.
<AndyP> StevenK: yeah i think i remember people complaining that the community didn't have much say in the direction of development
<StevenK> AndyP: *nods* They seem to be getting better, slowly. They aren't even close to how open Ubuntu development is.
<ajmitch> and I still think that we can do better
<StevenK> ajmitch: Oh?
<AndyP> StevenK: yeah, that's my experience lately - soon after i blogged about the differences in getting sponsored in debian and fedora, i got an email from a red hat guy offering to sponsor me and help make the whole sponsorship process easier
<AndyP> he was quite cool about it
<ajmitch> there's still a number of places where it's pretty much just canonical, though they are trying to get the community involved
<LaserJock> well, it seemed to me that Sevilla was a big step backward
<ajmitch> LaserJock: in what way?
<LaserJock> when it comes to community defining direction
<AndyP> regarding the bug status change?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> there was no big call for specs
<AndyP> ah
<LaserJock> much of the schedule was determined by Canonical beforhand
<ajmitch> we're still waiting on new TB nominations :)
<jmg> what is sevilla?
<ajmitch> a city in the south of spain
<AndyP> ubuntu development shindig
<jmg> oh
<ajmitch> we had the ubuntu developers summit there in early may
<lifeless> LaserJock: scheduling is /hard/
<LaserJock> of course
* ajmitch returns to hating on CVS
<lifeless> LaserJock: as in NP-hard
<ajmitch> lifeless: please tell me there's an easy way to import from cvs into bzr :)
<LaserJock> I'm just saying, it was considerably less community driven than previous UDSs
<lifeless> ajmitch: yes
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :P
<ajmitch> otherwise I'll have to register a project on launchpad & wait for the import
<lifeless> ajmitch: https://launchpad.net/bzr-cvsps-import
<lifeless> ajmitch: if you want incremental tracking, register it on launchpad
<lifeless> ajmitch: if you want one-shot conversion, use bzr-cvsps-import
<ajmitch> right, there are just about 20 cvs modules in this repository, so it'd be annoying to register each
<ajmitch> I'll probably register the ones I care about
<RAOF> I'd just like to check that bug #121476 has all the right stuff (status, subscribers, etc) to get looked at when someone's feeling in a sponsoring mood.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121476 in mplayer "Use Compiz' "video" plugin when available" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121476
<RAOF> I'm not familiar with the packaging-in-bzr workflow :)
<mshima> some motu could take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5239?
<TheMuso> RAOF: Neither am I
<RAOF> mshima: I'm not a MOTU, but I'll have a cursory glance.
<mshima> RAOF: thanks
* TheMuso is going to get onto revu stuff after lunch.
<RAOF> mshima: Ok, my cursory glance says: you *might* want to tighten your debhelper build-depends and version your cdbs build-depend.
<RAOF> mshima: And I'm pretty sure you don't want "debian/changelog2" in there :)
<mshima> your are right
<jmg> la
* somerville32 cries.
<RAOF> mshima: Also, you've rewritten debian/rules to use CDBS?  Does Debian use raw debhelper?
<StevenK> RAOF: Redundant changelogs! I like it. :-P
<RAOF> Pretty good, eh :)
<joejaxx> somerville32: why?
<somerville32> debdiff is failing
<joejaxx> :\
<mshima> RAOF: yes debian uses debhelper
<RAOF> mshima: Is there some awesomely good reason why you re-wrote the rules in CDBS?  Because we generally try to minimize divergence from debian, and unless you get that change into the Debian package, it's huge.
<mshima> RAOF: I'm doing this with another guy and his is trying to get this package into debian.
<RAOF> mshima: I hope that "other guy" is the debian maintainer :)
<mshima> RAOF: The debian maintainer is blocked his email is not accepting mails.
<RAOF> :(
<somerville32> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26694/
<mshima> RAOF: He is doing this by an sponsor
<nixternal> were there any network updates recently for gutsy? my gutsy box seems to drop dns repeatedly now
<ajmitch> nixternal: network mangler?
<mshima> RAOF: no way to contact the maintainer.
<nixternal> was that updated today?
<RAOF> mshima: Ok.  And the sponsor is OK with rewritting debian/rules entirely?  I just think that it might be easier to get in if you don't completely change the packaging :)
<ajmitch> mshima: his debian.org address isn't working?
<mshima> no
<somerville32> joejaxx: ^^
<mshima> RAOF: Don't know
<ajmitch> mshima: tried voc@synce.org?
<RAOF> mshima: Then I'd *strongly* suggest that you change the packaging as little as possible.
<RAOF> mshima: Why did you rewrite debain/rules?  Much as I love cdbs, raw debhelper isn't *that* bad :)
<somerville32> Can someone help me understand whats wrong with debdiff? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26694/
<ajmitch> somerville32: what's broken?
<somerville32> see bottom
<somerville32> It stops and I don't get a full diff
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> interesting
<nixternal> argh this is really annoying
<joejaxx> i wonder why that is happening
* somerville32 wonders too :(
<npodges> what's the best way to set up a standard gnu build environment when setting up a project?
<mshima> RAOF: no way to get in the it is now?
<RAOF> mshima: I'm not the one who'd be deciding that.  However, I'd be amazed if the MOTU reviewer wasn't uncomfortable with entirely changing the debian packaging.
<RAOF> mshima: And again, why did you rewrite it?  The existing packaging should have needed mimimal changes.
<mshima> RAOF: I will wait for it to get into debian. Jonny is who rewrite the new package and he is from the synce team, so is the debian maintainer
<mshima> I don't know why he did it
<RAOF> Yeah, you might as well wait for Debian.  It'll be syncable for a long time yet :)
<mshima> But vdccm (synce program) has a lot of packaging bugs
<RAOF> Anyway, I'm off to lunch!
<nixternal> ajmitch: it looks like it is either network mangler or dhcpd
<_MMA_> Sorry. OT. I needed to share. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY
<nixternal> haha, the sarcastic gamer rocks
<nixternal> so take that apple!
<ScottK> nixternal: So you meant StevenK when you said ScottK in your application e-mail?  I may have to reconsider my response...
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> I should have added StevenK as well :)
<nixternal> you have done a majority of the sponsoring recently
<ScottK> nixternal: Nice dodging and weaving.
<nixternal> haha
<ScottK> ;-)
<ajmitch> he still hasn't convinced me
<nixternal> ajmitch: I said I would buy you lunch, that is what you asked for
<ajmitch> and I went hungry today
<nixternal> hahahahahaha
<nixternal> sorry man, but that is ScottK's fault I think
<ajmitch> finger-pointing
<ScottK> More avoidance.
<nixternal> depends on the finger, but ya you are right
* ScottK thinks nixternal fears the very scary ajmitch.
<nixternal> nevah!
<ScottK> As I said, dodging and weaving.
<Toadstool> hmm bribing with food, nice :)
<ajmitch> ScottK: very scary?
* ScottK recalls some discussion about that a while ago.  Maybe it was someone else that people thought was scary.
<nixternal> ajmitch: I know when an upload/package is trivial and non-deadly, and when I don't I know where to get the answers. I have been around here for close to 2 years now, I am not going anywhere (unless of course MS shoves their nose into our business)
<ScottK> ajmitch: He's merged courier.  That has to count for something.
<nixternal> I have a decent grasp of what goes on, and when I don't I ask questions...
<ajmitch> only 2 years? didn't you read that this position requires 5+ years ubuntu experience
<nixternal> courier was easy
<jmg> which position is this?
<jmg> core-dev?
<nixternal> ajmitch: and I have a DD sig on my key, just for this damn occassion!
<StevenK> Just -dev
<jmg> nixternal: you are DD?
<nixternal> one of these days, taking small steps right now
<ScottK> nixternal: Careful.  How many debdiffs did you have to upload for courier?
<jmg> heh
<nixternal> hey, that was the stupid po issue, which I got with scipy as well
<nixternal> I know to check those debdiffs and remove the cruff
<ajmitch> become a DD & be special like StevenK 
<ScottK> Now, yes.
<nixternal> ajmitch: I plan on it
* StevenK raises an eyebrow.
<jmg> ajmitch: isnt it easier to return the ring to mount doom than it is to be a DD?
<nixternal> I am working with the KDE Extras team now, and they even gave me some SVN access, that has to account for a "his danger level is lower than normal"
<nixternal> jmg: yes!
<StevenK> I don't think so, but that's just me.
<nixternal> hell, that might be even easier then just becoming a NM
<jmg> Commander: nixternal
<jmg> Elite Rating: Harmless
<jmg> :)
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> Pee-on: nixternal
<nixternal> peon
<StevenK> Surely, Mostly Harmless ?
<nixternal> damn, I spelled that one wrong
<zakame> hi all
<nixternal> howdy zakame 
<jmg> StevenK: you have to get a kill for that.
<zakame> ssup?
<nixternal> hahahahaha
<zakame> hello nixternal
<nixternal> ajmitch: I also have KDE svn access, so I am known not to commit/submit stuff that would cause world war 3
<ajmitch> you work on KDE
<ajmitch> enough said
<nixternal> I am learning python (thanks to ScottK for slinging me a python issue yesterday), C/C++ and some Qt love, bash, and
<nixternal> gah, I will switch to Gnome?
<nixternal> ;p
<ajmitch> vista!
* nixternal looks and makes sure Riddell isn't around
<zakame> heh
<nixternal> or Hobbsee for that matter
<nixternal> brb, gotta secure the fortress before the storms arrive
<zakame> hmm what's the average time to wait before syncs are acted upon?
<StevenK> A day or so?
<ajmitch> when archive admins feel like working on them
<zakame> ah.
<ScottK> Friday is traditionally a good day for archive admining to happen.  
<StevenK> I asked for a sync yesterday and pitti discovered sync-source was broken, so people are probably going to have to wait until it's fixed.
<zakame> good
<zakame> bluekuja told me he made a syncreq for opendchub, so there...
* nixternal notes that bug 121675 can use a sync and bug 121640 needs a merge
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121675 in kwirelessmonitor "Please sync kwirelessmonitor (0.5.91-2.1) from Debian Unstable(main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121675
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121640 in ksensors "Please merge Ksensors (0.7.3-14) from Debian(main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121640
* nixternal hides
<StevenK> Hum? Didn't we sort out ksensors to be sync'd?
* nixternal looks again
<nixternal> StevenK: doesn't look like it was fixed with Debian
<nixternal> -       section="Apps/System" \
<nixternal> +       section="Apps/Tools" \
<nixternal> plus the whole dh_iconcache thing...which if memory serves me correctly is a Gnome thing right?
<StevenK> Oh that's right, it was krename you took over.
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> that I got syncing
<StevenK> dh_iconcache is not really a Gnome-ism, it looks to deal with both
<nixternal> and it will stay that way, as well as KPlayer, soon to be libhttp (which is being renamed and tweaked upstream), and then the wonderful Plucker (unless the DD doesn't want to listen)
<nixternal> I thought it was for GTK
<StevenK> KDE puts icons under /usr/share/icons too
<jussi01> good morning all!
<RAOF> Afternoon, no-longer-au jussi01 :)
<jussi01> RAOF: :D hehe
<jussi01> hows the weather RAOF?
<jussi01> :P
<StevenK> It's bright, sunny and cold here
<RAOF> Yup.
<RAOF> A nice change of pace from dark, overcast, soaking wet and cold :)
<StevenK> Heh, yes. :-)
<jussi01> hehe... we have 20+ and bright sunny :D
<jussi01> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya
* jussi01 is going to the "mkki" (summer house) today... gonna just laze around, get burnt.. swim :D
<TheMuso> Hey jussi01.
<TheMuso> Where are you now?
<TheMuso> Back home?
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
<jussi01> hi TheMuso im in finland, but right now im at the inlaws...
<TheMuso> Right.
* AndyP wonders why the universe trend graph on MoM goes all the way up to 25000 when the max is only around 11000
<StevenK> MoM is overly optimistic
<AndyP> heh
<StevenK> Ah, that's it. MoM's in Spinal Tap mode.
<ajmitch> jussi01: I hate you
<jussi01> ajmitch: what did I do now? :(
<ajmitch> 17:50 < jussi01> hehe... we have 20+ and bright sunny :D
<jussi01> oh...:P
* jussi01 throws some "bright and sunny" weather to ajmitch
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> it's sort of snowing here
<jussi01> lol
<StevenK> Sort of, you say?
<jussi01> ajmitch: where exactly are you?
<ajmitch> jussi01: dunedin
<ajmitch> StevenK: snow, rain, sleet
<nixternal> bug 121682 can use a sync
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121682 in strigiapplet "Please synce strigiapplet (0.5.1-2) from Debian Unstable(main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121682
<StevenK> ajmitch: Yummy
<ajmitch> quite
<jussi01> ajmitch: how are the sheep doing? :P
<ajmitch> wow, a sheep joke. I've never heard one of them
<Hobbsee> jussi01: they're taking over, again
<StevenK> jussi01: That's baaaa-ad
* StevenK hides
<AndyP> ajmitch: i feel your pain, us welsh people get sheep jokes too
<jussi01> lol
<man-di> AndyP: sheep jokes are much better then the fish jokes here
<AndyP> man-di: fish jokes? where are you?
<man-di> AndyP: northern germany
<man-di> AndyP: and the southern guys call us fish heads
<AndyP> ah i see, tsk
<RAOF> Again, I'd just like to check that bug #121476 has all the right stuff (status, subscribers, etc) to get looked at when someone's feeling in a sponsoring mood.  I think two pings in 5 hours isn't too excessive :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121476 in mplayer "Use Compiz' "video" plugin when available" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121476
<jussi01> see you everyone, ajmitch: http://www.fmi.fi/weather/local.html?Keywords=&kunta=Tampere
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<TheMuso> hey dholbach.,
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> dholbach: Didn't know a newer version of nome-speech was available, so I have updated the bug
<dholbach> alright - super
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<Fujitsu> siretart: mplayer is maintained in bzr, as I noted in bug #110151 which you recently uploaded a patch from.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110151 in mplayer "mplayer not compiled with nas audio support" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110151
<RAOF> Bah, that'll make my bzr branch no longer merge cleanly.
<RAOF> TheMuso: You like 'c', don't you :)
<RAOF> Hm.  For packages in bzr, particularly mplayer, should a branch contain a new changelog?  That's something that's going be quite easily broken by other commits.
<effraie> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 23 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Jul 21:00: Technical Board
<siretart> Fujitsu: oh, I'm sorry, I'll commit the patch in a sec. thanks for notifying me about this
<mok0> !bot
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<siretart> Fujitsu: we really should integrate bzr into apt. like in perhaps spitting a warning message 'I: use bzr checkout $url to checkout the source branch' or something
<siretart> Fujitsu: committed
<dholbach> siretart: apt-get source tells you about XS-Vcs-* now
<siretart> dholbach: oh?
* siretart checks
<dholbach> try    apt-get source devscripts
<siretart> dholbach: since when?
<dholbach> last upload I guess
<siretart> maybe my chroot is out of date.. updating
<siretart> indeed, I still had an outdated apt in my chroot. retrying
<siretart> WARNING: 'devscripts' is maintained in the 'Browser' version control system at:
<siretart> don't we manage devscripts in bzr on launchpad?
<siretart> but anyway. great to know! 
<qball> grrr scanner is still broken in gutsy
<siretart> fix it! :)
<qball> it's a problem with the usb suspens function or something like that
<qball> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends/+bug/85488
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 85488 in sane-backends "some usb_devices fault if usb_suspend enabled" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<highvoltage> dholbach: guten morgen
<highvoltage> dholbach: do you think we should add an entry in the csv file for the last reception ping as well?
<dholbach> highvoltage: I thought that's what we'd use the date column for
<highvoltage> dholbach: aaah, I thought that was for last communication between the mentor and contributor
<highvoltage> dholbach: ok, I'll update accordingly then
<dholbach> highvoltage: you rock - thanks a lot - I replied to your mail aalready
<dholbach> highvoltage: I'll ask on the list for a new receptionist, so it'll be easier for us to follow up in the coming months
<highvoltage> dholbach: ok
* highvoltage has never thought of himself as a receptionist before :)
<dholbach> hehe
<dholbach> done
* man-di wonders why some software is in Ubuntu/multiverse and Debian/main
<geser> man-di: have you an example (except faad2)?
<man-di> geser: jmp
<geser> jmp till 0.42-2 was in contrib and since 0.47-1 in main
<geser> nobody noticed this move and requested to move jmp from multiverse to universe
<man-di> aah
<man-di> that explains
<man-di> geser: thx
<man-di> I will wille file a move request bug
<man-di> geser: is this for ubuntu-archive?
<geser> yes
<man-di> thx
<TheMuso> highvoltage: Just got your email, will reply shortly.
<highvoltage> TheMuso: ok, thank you
<TheMuso> highvoltage: Just replied.
<highvoltage> TheMuso: thanks!
<TheMuso> highvoltage: np
<TheMuso> Why has MoM flagged a package as one to be merged if it has build1 in its version number for the previous version of Ubuntu? I thought such packages were automatically synced.
<LucidFox> What version number should I use for version 1.0RC1? 1.0~rc1 or 0.99+1.0rc1?
<minghua> TheMuso: I believe they are.  Should just be a bug of MoM.
<minghua> LucidFox: 1.0~rc1 is better if there isn't really a "0.99" release
<LucidFox> ok
<LucidFox> and after 1.0 release comes out?
<TheMuso> minghua: um ok
<kiko> hey there
<LucidFox> is it to be marked just 1.0?
<kiko> does anyone know the syntax for filing bugs with tags preset?
<zakame> good evening
<LucidFox> kiko> file a bug, then add the tags
<kiko> I think there's a URL shortcut
<LucidFox> or
<LucidFox> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?field.tag=yourtag
<kiko> yep
<kiko> thanks!
<LucidFox> what does "otherosfs" mean?
<AndyP> LucidFox: "Software to run programs compiled for other operating system, and to use their filesystems." according to packages.u.c
<LucidFox> hm
<LucidFox> not sure how dvdauthor qualifies as "otherosfs"...
<LucidFox> What to do if SourceForge claims the license as "BSD license", but the source tarball has no COPYING file and no copyright notices? Get upstream to add them?
<azeem> LucidFox: yeah, I think
<zakame> LucidFox: yes
<azeem> I wouldn't rely on sourceforge information there
<LucidFox> Is a copyright notice needed for every source file?
<azeem> a top-level one would be sufficient I think, but having license boilerplate and a copyright notice in every file is good pratcise
<azeem> practise*
<LucidFox> ok
<LucidFox> and it's "practice" ^_^
<LucidFox> practise is a verb
<zakame> $motu_hopeful->practice();
<LucidFox> well, practice can also be a verb, but practise cannot be a noun
<lzap> Hello, what can I do if I want to inform the package maintainer about this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/112799 (vmware-server installs netkit-inetd and removes xinetd)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112799 in xinetd "vmware-server installs netkit-inetd and removes xinetd" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<lzap> its in the Ubuntu Commerical repository
<lzap> and the packager is vmware-builds@vmware.com (from the DEB file)
<LucidFox> Can Launchpad track bug dependencies?
<TheMuso> Ok. U-u-s queue is clear for now. I'm off to bed.
<LucidFox> U-u-s queue?
<coNP> ubuntu-universe-sponsors I guess
<LucidFox> ah
<DktrKranz> LucidFox, https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<pochu> Hello DarkSun88 
<DarkSun88> Hi pochu :)
<coNP> hey pochu 
<LucidFox> Why is the NetBeans package just an installer?
<LucidFox> Unlike Eclipse?
<pochu> heya coNP!
<AndyP> LucidFox: license issues i think
<xxxxx1> good morning all! :)
<geser> !info netbeans5.5 gutsy
<ubotu> netbeans5.5: NetBeans IDE for development of applications in Java. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 5.5.1-1 (gutsy), package size 67450 kB, installed size 143624 kB
<geser> LucidFox: I haven't tested the netbeans5.5 package but it's rather large to be only an installer
<LucidFox> ah, yee
<LucidFox> it was an installer in Feisty
<LucidFox> apparently they changed it to a proper package in Gutsy
<jerome_> hello all
<jerome_> could someone have a look at bug #117840 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117840 in soya "Wishlist: Update python-soya package" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117840
<jerome_> it causes a crash at start up in two games of the repos
<jerome_> and is still here in Gutsy
<coNP> jerome_: do you want to prepare a package update?
<jerome_> well my knowledge in packaging is very small
<jerome_> but if someone helps me why not
<coNP> jerome_: this recipe is *perfect*: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<bashelie1> ^^
<jerome_> i will have a look
<bashelie1> jerome_: when done, put it on revu ;)
<jerome_> ok
<coNP> I guess if you get stuck just ask and we'll try to help
<jerome_> thx
<jerome_> mmmm
<jerome_> first two questions :)
<jerome_> do I have to contact the maintener of the package ?
<jerome_> and
<coNP> jerome_: no, in fact you should update package maintainer based on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<StevenK> man-di: Weren't you planning on uploading new versions of sear, cyphesis-cpp and eris to Debian?
<man-di> StevenK: yeah
<StevenK> man-di: And then what happened? :-)
<jerome_> coNP : so I would be the new package maintener ?
<man-di> StevenK: but birth of my son broke down my whole roadmap
<coNP> no, Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<StevenK> man-di: Ah ha. Understandably. :-)
<man-di> StevenK: sorry
<man-di> I will try to do it tonite or at least tomorrow
<StevenK> man-di: Great, thanks.
<jerome_> coNp : sorry I hadn't seen your answer :)
<jerome_> ok perfect
<jerome_> and if I'm running feisty I can prepair the updated package for gutsy and then request a backport?
<persia> jerome_: Yes.  That is the preferred method.
<jerome_> persia : ok thank you
<slytherin> Can anyone having good experience with docbook help with a query?
<EtienneG> hey guys
<Hobbsee> hiya EtienneG 
<EtienneG> To sync a package from Debian, do we stil just have to file a bug in LP and subscribe archive-admin ?
<EtienneG> (hello Hobbsee)
<StevenK> EtienneG: Yes
<Hobbsee> EtienneG: ubuntu-archive
<EtienneG> great, thx
<Hobbsee> but yes
<Hobbsee> EtienneG: there's a requestsync script in devscripts, btw
<EtienneG> I will check
<EtienneG> automation for the win
<persia> EtienneG: Be sure to check even the closed bugs for the package before running the script: rejections are hidden by default.
<EtienneG> persia, I'll do that
<EtienneG> I cannot find the scripts in question from devscripts
<EtienneG> but I do not mind filing a short bug
<EtienneG> by hand
<EtienneG> sorry, got it: requestsync (*slap head*)
<StevenK> EtienneG: To use it, you'll need a deb-src line for gutsy
<EtienneG> I am not running gutsy, but I will add one
<EtienneG> I really need to dig into devscripts, that requestsync script is awesome
<EtienneG> it cannot get any easier
<StevenK> EtienneG: Agreed. :-)
<persia> xxxxx1: About cfengine2: is this actually committed somewhere, or does it need an upload?
<gnomefreak> siretart: if your around, is there a way to sign package using bzr bd --merge?
<xxxxx1> persia: this debdiff is for feisty version only. i'm checking the gutsy now.
<xxxxx1> persia: looks not fixed yet in gutsy upstream too.
<persia> xxxxx1: I'd recommend leaving an SRU candidate "In-Progress" while preparing an upload to Gutsy, as it7s very rare that something is to be fixed in a release without the fix having previously been applied to the current development version.
<persia> xxxxx1: Separately, I'm not sure that this meets the criteria for a Stable Release Update (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU).
<persia> dholbach: Thanks for the poke on the wiki review - I'll try to get the rest of the pending comments in soon.
<dholbach> persia: take your time :-)
<dholbach> persia: I wasn't poking you :)
* persia had let it lapse for a week, so the reminder was good even if unintentional :)
<xxxxx1> persia: well, it could be fixed on feisty. btw, i'm working on gutsy version
<xxxxx1> persia: i've put "in-progress" again
<mok0> I have six packages sitting in REVU, revised and waiting for another round of reviewing. If someone needs something to do during the weekend ;-)
<persia> xxxxx1: Should it be fixed in feisty?  If so, why?
<persia> mok0: I'd recommend posting at least one URL to go with your announcement (and I'll take one).
<xxxxx1> persia: or not
<xxxxx1> rsss
<mok0> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5664
<mok0> That's the most complicated package
<xxxxx1> i don't know how sru team thinks about this
<mok0> with daemons and what not
<persia> mok0: I remember this one :)  I'd be happy to take another look.
<xxxxx1> persia: btw, it's not a critical bug or something like that.
<mok0> persia: great
<mok0> persia: we've been using wulfware for years, it's really very handy
<persia> xxxxx1: If you think it meets the criteria for an SRU, it would be good to update.  If you think it doesn't, it can be missed.  The MOTU SRU team is fairly busy, and so appreciates all the help it can get from others reviewing the bugs.
<xxxxx1> persia: would be good to have, but i need more opinions if is really needed or just fix in gutsy for now.
<persia> xxxxx1: I'm not sure what depends on proper distribution detection, but if it is a security issue, causes data loss, or is a regression to a previous version, it should be updated.  If not, it should not be updated.
<xxxxx1> persia: i agree
<xxxxx1> persia: whatever, the debdiff for feisty is commited :) i'll finish the debdiff for gutsy now.
<xxxxx1> hmm, my english is poor
<xxxxx1> s/whatever/anyway/g
<xxxxx1> :)
<persia> xxxxx1: Ah.  That makes more sense.  Also, while the debdiff for feisty has been uploaded to LP, an upload to feisty-proposed is usually considered the criteria for "Fix Committed".  At this point, I think the possible feisty task is still "In Progress", as someone needs to research whether this is a critical issue.
<xxxxx1> yep
<Amaranth> So, does Incomplete replace Need Info?
<Amaranth> in launchpad
<persia> Amaranth: yes.
<Amaranth> i would think you'd start with Needs Info and change to Incomplete (which would mark the bug as closed) after some time
<coNP> that is Invalid now, I guess
<coNP> or maybe Won't fix
* persia thinks invalid applies if it was previously incomplete
<Toadstool> g'morning everybody!
<siretart> gnomefreak: just use 'debsign' to sign  your newly created source package
<gnomefreak> k
<gnomefreak> ty
<gnomefreak> siretart: while using feisty chroot i use command bzr bd --working --builder='dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -kKEYID' i get http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/583819
<gnomefreak> in theory that should work from what --help says
<siretart> gnomefreak: wow. 
<siretart> gnomefreak: I'm not sure if this is a problem in bzr or bzr-builddeb, but I remember that I talked to james_w about it and it got fixed shortly afterwards
<siretart> gnomefreak: could you please retry with the bzr, bzrtools and bzr-builddeb packages from gutsy?
* gnomefreak can break anything
<gnomefreak> siretart: builds fine in gutsy
<siretart> gnomefreak: you should be able to just install the gutsy binary packages in feisty
<gnomefreak> seeing if i missed an update or 3 in chroot
<gnomefreak> siretart: wait no gutsys broke a while back bzr-buildd got removed with bzr update
<gnomefreak> i havent tried it since im waiting to hear if it got fixed
<siretart> gnomefreak: yes, you need new version of all bzr, bzrtools and bzr-builddeb
<gnomefreak> k
<gnomefreak> siretart: it seems --working is what was causing the traceback. if i commit change than use --merge inplace of --working it works (atleast so far)
<gnomefreak> installing the binaries on feisty wants gutsys libc6 because of python depends, i may build them so i have  a personall backported version of the 3
<siretart> gnomefreak: do you happen to have a symlink debian -> . in the tree?
<siretart> gnomefreak: if yes, that bug has been fixed yesterday ;)
<gnomefreak> ah ok
<gnomefreak> ty
<siretart> you do?
<gnomefreak> i dont think so but i dont see why one cant be made
<siretart> if you still have problems, please show me (or even better james_w on #bzr) a backtrace, and we'll look at the code
<gnomefreak> siretart: ok ty ill look at it as soon as im done with ff
<leonel> hello everyone !  
<ScottK> Hello leonel.
<leonel> ScottK:  HEA ! 
<leonel> ScottK: good  morning !
<ScottK> leonel: Don't give up (I read the scrollback from last night) - No one knows all this stuff.  You are doing very well and it'll come in time.
<leonel> ScottK: thanks   it was  a  moment  after  hitting  the wall with that    
<ScottK> leonel: OK.  Don't scare me like that again.  You are doing good, just don't make the 2nd mountain you climb in your life Mt. Everest.
<leonel> ScottK: that's why I stopped yesterday     and turn  to another things  and  today  I'll resume  that  sun-java  update ..
<ScottK> leonel: Or maybe try something easier....
<leonel> ScottK: thanks  ..  One step at the time ..
<ScottK> leonel:  Up to you o f course
<leonel> ScottK: I believed  that   updating  sun-java was easy  since  there's  only 2  binary files to replace    
<ScottK> leonel: OK.  You might even be right.  I haven't looked.  I avoid Java as much as possible, personally.
<leonel> ScottK: I like  java but I didn't used because   it was  not 100% free  now  waiting  for the openjdk  and see how it gets 
<leonel> ScottK: now I work in python  and  taking again  java 
<ScottK> leonel: Python is enough for me.  I have enough trouble with just one programming language to deal with.  Then people through Perl stuff at me, I read it, and my brain hurts.
<leonel> jejeje
<leonel> Perl is a  write  only  languaje  :-P
<leonel> you can't read it  after 
<ScottK> leonel: I'm told it's possible to write readble Perl, just not typical.
<leonel> :)
<leonel> I've worked for  8 months with perl before python  and  I don't think  I'll use perl again 
<Q-FUNK> ruby.
<ScottK> leonel: On another project I work on I was on the receiving end of, "Oh, you know Postfix, then you need to be the maintainer for this ..." and it was a policy server in Perl.
<leonel> plop
<ScottK> leonel: Well actually it wasn't so bad.  The new library I had to integrate was VERY well document with code samples and everything and I did have people who actually knew Perl that I could pick on when I had problems.
<leonel> It's great to have  someone to ask  when you need  it  .. like  I have  this MOTU channel  :)
* AndyP goes "ewww" at the gnokii package
<AndyP> it ftbfs because Makefile.global isn't available to use with the initial "make clean", and you need to run the configure script in order to generate Makefile.global, which makes everything far less than clean :/
* AndyP spots a debian bug about it
<RainCT> Adri2000: hi
<Adri2000> hi RainCT
<RainCT> Adri2000: do you want to do gfax's merge?
<Adri2000> RainCT: no, I just want it to be done :) btw, what change do we need to keep? can't we sync?
<RainCT> Adri2000: I think yes
<RainCT> Adri2000: the only difference I see are that *.gmo files but you said they come from the source..
<RainCT> Adri2000: yes, there's nothing about them in Ubuntu's diff... why does M-o-M complain about them then?
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<Adri2000> RainCT: I don't know... that's MoM
<Adri2000> RainCT: file a sync request, and subscribe u-u-s
<RainCT> okay
<RainCT> Adri2000: done, I edited the existing bug #120245
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120245 in gfax "[gfax]  Sync Debian's 0.7.6-3" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120245
<talex> Hi. I'm looking for someone to review my package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5670 It's just a new upstream release; shouldn't be any problems.
<ScottK> talex: Looking at the diff, it appears a bunch of debian/copyright got removed.  That's not going to work.
<talex> ScottK: The old version had two licenses: GPL for some files and LGPL for others. It was fixed in upstream, so the second one was removed.
<ScottK> OK.  Dangers of just looking at the diff I guess.
<talex> Good to be thorough :-) There's a comment at the start of the bit that was removed noting that it was only there by mistake.
<ScottK> Right.
* ScottK doesn't have time right now for a thorough review.
<ScottK> I did note (for your upstream) that in many places they change copyright 2006 to copyright 2007 when they should have changed it to copyright 2006 - 2007.
<talex> I'll investigate. It may be a regional thing; we get told not to use ranges at work, though I don't remember why.
<jekil> how i must write debian/rules of a software that must be installed like that : http://rafb.net/p/u48nQY79.html
<lamego_> jekil, you just need dh_install and dh_links for that 
<lamego_> assuming the "files to be copied" are already binaries/whatever
<jekil> lamego_: and where i must install it?
<jekil> /usr/share/appname?
<lamego_> yes, thats the default for an app, unless it is a game
<jekil> lamego_: thanks :)
<nixternal> ScottK: you around at all?
<tsmithe> could i get (a) review(s) for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5695 please? (usplash-theme-ubuntustudio)
<tsmithe> i think i've fixed all persia's issues
<nixternal> you can never fix all of persia's issues
<nixternal> he can find every little nook-and-cranny possible with a package
<ScottK> nixternal: Yes.
<nixternal> umm, I was just going to ask what all tools you use to really review a package...possibly besides the ones in the DD manuals
<ScottK> nixternal: I'm probably not the best person to ask.  I'm still working through that question myself.
<nixternal> I found a whole slew of tools, but one of my Debian packages is taking a pixmap hit, and when I review it, I don't see the problem that is being noted...even after running the same command as the sponsor
<ScottK> Odd.  I don't know a bit about that.  Ask persia.  He knows all the tricks.
<ScottK> nixternal: You might consider trying in a Sid chroot and see if you can replicate their problem if you haven't already.
<nixternal> ya, been there done that
<tsmithe> nixternal, well, i fixed all the issues he left in the revu comment ;)
<nixternal> hehe...hurry and get it sponsored before he comes back ;p
<tsmithe> i'm trying!
<tsmithe> ScottK, sponsor me! :D
<ScottK> tsmithe: What did you change to correct his "The source tree appears dirty: consider running make clean prior to building the package." comment?
<ScottK> tsmithe: Same question for "linda fails checking the binary package due to an unterminated string."?
<ScottK> tsmithe: Did you run linda against the new binary package?
<tsmithe> well, i ran `debian/rules clean` and `make clean`, checked the tree and it appeared clean. i ran linda against the package and it gave me no output, so i assumed it was happy, and uploaded
<ScottK> OK.  
<tsmithe> did i miss anything? :)
<ScottK> Did you run linda against source or binary (.deb)?
<tsmithe> binary, and source
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> tsmithe: It looks to me like you've got reasonable responses to his comments in the package.  I don't have time to give it a full review right now though.  Sorry.
<tsmithe> ScottK, heh no worries :)
<nixternal> tsmithe: one thing I noticed, is you need to add yourself either as an Uploader or XSBC-Original-Maintainer. Of course this depends on the Ubuntu policy for that.
<tsmithe> well, i didn't want to be the Original-Maintainer. i discussed it with the team, and they wanted me to be Maintainer (with my @ubuntu.com address), but i wanted the ubuntustudio-devel-list to be the Maintainer. we settled with me being the uploader, and Ubuntu MOTU being the Maintainer
<nixternal> shouldn't the version be 0.8-0ubuntu1?
<ScottK> nixternal: I think it's meant to be a native package.
<ScottK> That's what I assumed anyway
<nixternal> ahh, I thought we still added the ubuntu version as it is native to Ubuntu, unless of course it has plans of going into Debian
<tsmithe> nixternal, it is :)
<tsmithe> native i mean
<nixternal> gotcha
<tsmithe> :)
<LaserJock> nixternal: even then I think we usually avoid that versioning
<nixternal> OK..good to know
<LaserJock> I sure wish siretart would stop sending my mailing list so much spam ;-)
<tsmithe> LaserJock, could you review that package?
<LaserJock> probably not in a timely manner
<tsmithe> ok :)
<nixternal> your sh -c: issue tsmithe is due to svg's in the source dir
<nixternal> that is bad file naming ;)
<nixternal> err, directory naming
<tsmithe> what sh -c issue?
<tsmithe> i didn't choose the directory name. it's even incorrect. but i can change it :)
<nixternal> if you run linda against it, you will see the sh -c errors
<tsmithe> i don't!
<nixternal> ya, I just changed it to svg and it built cleanly
<tsmithe> it scares me :s
<tsmithe> linda seems clean when i run it..
<nixternal> linda -di *.changes
<nixternal> nixternal@ShakaDoobie:~/downloads$ linda *.dsc
<nixternal> sh: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
<nixternal> sh: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
<tsmithe> hrrmph
* tsmithe fixes right away
<nixternal> I don't see what the "source tree appears dirty" issue is though...you can run make clean, there is nothing to clean :)
<tsmithe> yes..
<tsmithe> in fact, i'm not even sure where the svgs are used..
<nixternal> heh, they are the source for the .pngs
<nixternal> I think
<tsmithe> yes. i guess that's where they are required, but they're not actively used, i don't think
<LaserJock> have there been any reports of "Fix Released" bugs getting their status changed by the lastest LP rollout
<nixternal> LaserJock: umm, I might have had 1 or 2 switch to "incomplete"
<nixternal> but that could have been due to upstream bug link not being in "fixed released"
<nixternal> tsmithe: did persia explain in detail the "source tree appears dirty"?
<tsmithe> heh no
<nixternal> I ran make clean just to see what gets removed, and absolutely nothing gets removed
<nixternal> it may appear dirty, but I think that is due to just placing everyting into the source dir and not breaking it down into sub dirs like src, images, and so on
<tsmithe> ye
<tsmithe> *s
<nixternal> that copyright is scary...has Debian excepted CC-by-SA as a DFSG?
<Burgundavia> no
<nixternal> they are close though I believe, and that would be version 3.0 and higher I think
<tsmithe> well, copyright totally scares me, so i dunno
<nixternal> 2.5 has been deemed a negative, and 3.0 is/was looking promising
<Burgundavia> I believe 3 doesn't do it either
<tsmithe> well, as long as ubuntu accepts it
<nixternal> well, isn't the debianization of a package considered GPL?
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> or at least i thought i'd added that..
* nixternal checks
<tsmithe> damn
<LaserJock> it's whatever you make it, I believe
<tsmithe> yes
<LaserJock> most packages don't have license/copyright of the debianization
<nixternal> ok LaserJock, I wasn't for sure...I know with Debian we have to add the debianization is GPL snippets to the bottom of the copyright file
<tsmithe> i am doing that now
<tsmithe> it does make sense
<LaserJock> nixternal: no you don't
<nixternal> LaserJock: I believe those that don't have it now, are in the process of getting it eventually
<LaserJock> could be
<nixternal> LaserJock: well I was told we do with the Debian KDE team
<LaserJock> none of my packages in Debian do
<nixternal> interesting..I guess it depends on the sponsor maybe
<LaserJock> nixternal: sure, sponsors can put whatever restrictions they like ;-)
<tsmithe> right, that's my last upload doing and i'm off to bed
<tsmithe> should anyone wanna review/upload, then feel free :p
<nixternal> hehe, my 2 cents is it looks OK after the svg's fix
<nixternal> hrmm, the SVG files DO in fact contain copyright info inside of them it seems
<LaserJock> I think it's kinda silly to copyright/license packaging, but I suppose it should have something
<nixternal> LaserJock: I agree
<LaserJock> I *think* it was commonly understood that packaging was public domain
<nixternal> I would think if it was important, then that snippet would be added by dh_make or such
<nixternal> then again I ran across some sponsor documentation that states that the "examples and templates" aren't always correct
<nixternal> that is good to know
<LaserJock> but then, as we found out, just leaving out a license/copyright != public domain
<nixternal> haha right
<LaserJock> has anybody seen any documentation on what to do with all the stuff apport spits out in bug reports?
<nixternal> LaserJock: I thought there was some apport documentation on the wiki..and iirc it was horrid
<nixternal> bdmurray is of course the person to ask about that
<bdmurray> me?
<nixternal> yes you mister bugman :)
<bdmurray> nixternal: the wiki seems to have been updated recently
<bdmurray> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport
<nixternal> you should just have the word "bug" on highlight in your IRC client
<nixternal> oh wow, there is a lot of apport info there now
<bdmurray> If I had CRT I would get burn-in on my monitor
<nixternal> lol
<coNP> can I run two pbuilder build commands at the same time?
<coNP> I guess it uses separate directories, so should not be a problem, is it, though?
<LaserJock> I think you can yes
<LaserJock> they'll just maybe be a bit slow
<nixternal> well, I have tried running pbuilder-gutsy on 2 things at once, and it refuses to start another process, it could be because they are super super slow or it is respecting a lock-file and just not reporting it to you
<coNP> works for me (so far :D)
<LaserJock> I think sometimes things will bump
<LaserJock> but I've done it a few times before
<coNP> maybe during merges back to base.tgz
<coNP> I cannot really imagine other problems
<xxxxx1> bye all
<mshima> I working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsynce/+bug/116626 but I need some guidance
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116626 in libsynce "WM5 (Windows Mobile 5) support" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<mshima> some motu could help me?
<ScottK> mshima: Ask your question and maybe someone can answer it.
<mshima> ScottK: I have most of the packages waiting for review but they are not based on debian one. But he debian maintainer is blocked.
<mshima> These packages are acceptable on ubuntu?
<ScottK> Why aren't they based on the Debian one?
<ScottK> Generically, there's no hard requirement to be based on Debian, but we prefer it if possible. 
<ScottK> Is there a good reason not to base yourself on Debian?
<mshima> Jonny Lamb are getting them into debian
<mshima> no
<mshima> no good reason
<ScottK> Then my recommendation is base your work on what's already proven out for Debian.
<mshima> the debian maintainer abandoned and he is trying to become the maintainer
<ScottK> Right, but don't re-invent the wheel.
<mshima> ok
<mshima> I will wait some time then
<mshima> ScottK: And about grandr?
<mshima> did you take a look on it again?
<ScottK> mshima: I haven't had time.
<mshima> ScottK: ok
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-23
<Fujitsu> mshima: There's an ITP for grandr in Debian, so there's no reason to duplicate work.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: It's already pretty well duplicated as he's got the package close to ready (from my minimally trained eye).  
<mshima> Fujitsu: I started packaging day 18. The ITP is from yesterday. If my package get accepted at ubuntu I will send it to the ITP owner.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> OK.
<mshima> I'm using randr 1.2 for 1 month and with this tool I don't need terminal any more :)
<Fujitsu> I've just been using the terminal, but I use it for everything.
<mshima> I can't get extended layout with it yet
<mshima> :(
<mshima> Probably will be fixed soon
<ajmitch> ah, a nice white morning here this morning
<nixternal> orly?
<nixternal> I miss snow already
<ajmitch> yarly
<nixternal> that or you are a drug dealer
<ajmitch> shhh
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> booooooosted!
<brylie> how do I 'create a release' on a launchpad project I started? I have a .py file to upload. I'm having trouble getting a response in #launchpad.
<nixternal> on the project page, there is a "register a series" link, I think that is what you are looking for, or possibly the "register a branch" if you are wanting some bzr lovin'
<nixternal> https://launchpad.net/project_name
<brylie> ok, series it is since I don't have SVN or the ether
<brylie> other
<brylie> CVS
<Fujitsu> Ah, I think you have to create the release in the series.
<jrib> Hi, the last comment at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5639 has two warnings.  How do I generate those here on my system?
<ScottK> jrib: run lintian on the .deb file.  
<ScottK> jrib: jcorbier's right about arch all versus any.  I missed that.
<jrib> yep, I agree after reading the documentation too
<Toadstool> jrib: sorry I should have mentioned how I got the warnings.  Realized that after hitting the submit button
<jrib> Toadstool: np, thanks for the comments
<Toadstool> you're welcome
<keescook> so, what phase of debhelper does the "let's gzip everything that's a doc" bit?
<keescook> nm, dh_compress.  carry one
<keescook> on
<keescook> I need a weekend.  oh look!
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<persia> Morning TheMuso
<TheMuso> When does the autosync get turned off?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: About 2 days ago, I think.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Thanks.
* persia thinks it should be off by now
<Fujitsu> DebianImportFreeze was the 21st
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> Ok, looks like a manual sync of jack-audio-connection-kit is needed.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Now that autosync is likely switched off, can we please have your RC bug thingy working again? It'd be nice to stay fairly up to date from the start, rather than catching up in a couple of months.
<Toadstool> n/win1
<Toadstool> hmpf
<TheMuso> heh
<Toadstool> I need a brain
<Fujitsu> Is it just me, or is http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/pokerth.html completely stuffed?
<Fujitsu> It migrated to testing, but never had any uploads?
<ScottK> Best way to avoid bugs is not give people software to install.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I'll see what I can do
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Thanks.
<ScottK> StevenK: Do you mind if I merge cyrus-imapd-2.2?
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso :)
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
* ajmitch throws a snowball at Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee shoves it down ajmitch's back
<ajmitch> already got enough here, thanks
<TheMuso> heh
<nixternal> shh, I am trying to sleep!
<ajmitch> s/sleep/play with vista/
<nixternal> ya, how did you guess?
<ajmitch> we know you too well
<nixternal> I have cygwin and pbuilder building all of my Ubuntu packages on Vista now
<nixternal> d'oh, that won't help convince ya will it ;)
<ajmitch> no, it surely won't
<TheMuso> nixternal: Thats evil.
* ajmitch puts in a -10
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> each package contains its very own worm, curtously of steven ballmer
<ajmitch> can I blame you for losing connectivity as well?
<ajmitch>  6. Gi1-0-413.gw1.akl1.asianetcom.net                                                                                                     42.1%    19   67.8  68.6  67.1  71.6   1.6 7. po2-0.gw1.lax1.asianetcom.net                                                                                                         88.9%    19  1532. 1535. 1532. 1539.   4.8
<ajmitch> from ~70ms on one hop to 1500+ on the next
<nixternal> sure
<ScottK> nixternal: I don't see a bunch of +1's rolling in and you aren't helping yourself here.  You really need to take your sucking up to a higher level.
<nixternal> nobody likes me
<nixternal> bah, if people ignore it, then it wasn't meant to be
<jmg> nixternal: yech
<jmg> nixternal: i upgraded a vista box to xp on friday :)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: give htem a few days.  we're lazy people
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> jmg: I thought about picking up a copy of Vista at school because for the home premium it is like $50
<nixternal> just so I can fit in with Hobbsee and crimsun 
<jmg> nixternal: wait another 3 months and it will be in the bargain bin
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> jmg: it already is
<nixternal> our bookstore on campus has sold 1 copy
<jmg> lololol
<nixternal> they knocked it down to around 1/2 off
<nixternal> all of the Ubuntu CDs and the Broke Student CDs fill up the tip jar there for the LUG
<jmg> Broke Student CDs?
<ajmitch> jmg: is the internet connectivity sucking for you as well?
<jmg> ajmitch: yes
<ajmitch> I wonder who broke stuff
<nixternal> ya, they have like OOo and all kinds of open source apps for Windows and Mac OS
<jmg> ajmitch: what isp are you on?
<ajmitch> seems to be multiple upstreams, maybe someone tripped over the southern cross cable again
<ajmitch> maxnet
<jmg> this shell is on orcon
<jmg> my home is on xnet
<jmg> all affected
<ajmitch> yeah, I'm connected to freenode with no problems
<ajmitch> just 85% packetloss to the US, and high latency
<jmg> i was noticing tcp sessions starting to fall to peices as early as tuesday
<TheMuso> i don't seem to be having any problems here.
<jmg> sprintlink
<jmg> asianetcom is at capacity
<jmg> my undernet session has dropped
<ajmitch> oh well
<TheMuso> Ok. I am guessing that my slow speed from revu is a result of the issue that tibre is having with hosting/connectivity etc.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: yep
<TheMuso> and not local issues.
<ajmitch> serverpronto limiting it, apparantly
<TheMuso> Painful. Dial-up speeds.
* TheMuso takes a break while waiting for the download.
<jmg> er
<jmg> why doesnt my NetworkManager show the vpn options after installing network-manager-openvpn?
<jmg> similar to bug #113505 but i am using gnome
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113505 in network-manager-openvpn "Network-Manager-OpenVPN Won't Even Open" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113505
<superm1> jmg, try logging out and back in
<crimsun> zul_: (moving for work)
<nixternal> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcDshWmhF4A
<nixternal> the baddest homemade calculator I have ever seen
<LaserJock> man, did I ever tell you guys how much I hate printers in Windows?
<TheMuso> No.
<TheMuso> let me guess... Drivers?
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> printers are evil in any OS
<Hobbsee> nixternal: responded
* nixternal shivers
<nixternal> I am watching a YouTube video on how these people made a screen printing setup for dirt cheap, and it looks good
* TheMuso is lucky that he hardly ever has to deal with printers.
<LaserJock> printers work just fine for me in Linux
<LaserJock> but the only driver that HP puts out for my printer is "Local Only"
<Hobbsee> my old printer didnt work at all with linux
<nixternal> thanks Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> so it got thrown out, eventually - no need for 3 printers in hte house.  mum came in, a few months ago, and says "oh, when are you going to throw the old printer out, if you're not using it?"
<Hobbsee> nixternal: no problem :)
<Hobbsee> you earned it
<nixternal> HP is all I use, seeing as HP and Apple are the 2 biggest contributors to HPLIP
<nixternal> just need 20 more people to say +1 ;p
<nixternal> persia already drilled me with questions yesterday, he is going to give a "me too" eventually
<nixternal> and ajmitch, who knows, I tried to bribe him yesterday, I was in the middle of convincing today, and he all of a sudden disappeared
<crimsun> we don't accept bribes.  Openly.
<nixternal> he did, but I didn't buy him lunch ;)
<nixternal> he went hungry yesterday he said
<ajmitch> nixternal: I never disappeared
<nixternal> you passed out from hunger?
<nixternal> ;)
<ajmitch> more like slid my way down the hill
<nixternal> ahhh, forgot about you and some snow today...
<ajmitch> yeah, we're not really used to it here
<nixternal> I have 5+ months before the snow comes back...I can't wait
* ajmitch reads new mail in motu-council list
<ajmitch> Hobbsee, putting her life on the line
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: as always.
<ajmitch> :)
* ajmitch does have to head out again now
<nixternal> snowballs!
<ajmitch> back later, if I'm not in hospital
<nixternal> hahahaha
<Hobbsee> good luck
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: make sure, if you land in hospital, that htey dont pump arsenic into you.
<LaserJock> I think I should put in my big -1 ;-)
<LaserJock> we can't have mobster's in MOTU
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> we cant have self-proclaimed vista lovers in MOTU, either.
<nixternal> hey, I will take mobster over
<nixternal> !nixternal
<ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<nixternal> any day!
* Hobbsee grins, ducks, and runs away from nixternal 
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> chicken, and you have a long pointy stick!
<nixternal> actually, have you seen the cases that Vista comes in? I bet they could hurt someone
<Hobbsee> you havent seen what i sent to the ML yet, i presume...
<nixternal> uh oh
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> right as you said that, I seen the mailbox starting spinning
* Hobbsee --> work
<nixternal> wo0t...my upstream library guy is renaming his library...now the embedded guys better leave me alone! :)
<LaserJock> arrrgggg
<LaserJock> hmm, does a port scan usually take a while?
<highvoltage> depends.
<crimsun> depending on the options used, it can.
<nixternal> depends on how you run it
<highvoltage> if it's just an nmap <host> on a local network, it should go quite fast
<nixternal> -sS -vv -O -P will make it take a while
* ajmitch survived
<highvoltage> ajmitch: whohoo!
* LaserJock stabs Windows XP and HP printer drivers
<LaserJock> anybody know where I could pick up some cheap Win 98 disks?
<LaserJock> like real ones
<LucidFox> LaserJock> what for?
<LaserJock> I'd like to install Windows in vmware so I can finally wipe it off my hard drive
<LaserJock> I've spent all evening trying to get the stupid thing to print
<StevenK> I thought Windows 98 was no longer supported.
<LaserJock> that would be some of the point I supose
<LaserJock> I'd like to have a more "minimal" install
<LaserJock> XP would do if it's cheap and legite
<highvoltage> I bought a book that says "It's never to late to stop procrastinating". I guess if it's never too late, it can wait a bit :)
<Burgundavia> heh
<jussi01> morning all
<crimsun> maybe if we all ignore the troll in -devel, he'll just /part.
<crimsun> now would be a great time for stabbing someone in the face over TCP/IP
<jussi01> lol
<ajmitch> same troll, different day
<Amaranth> crimsun: too late for that
<tarzeau> Amaranth: k
<ajmitch> tarzeau: he's been trolling a few times recently, best not to encourage it
<tarzeau> aha, seen the first time. why don't you just ban ppl like that?
<tarzeau> i mean this n4kkid write style is so lame
<ajmitch> because there are no ops around to ban?
<tarzeau> oh :)
<Amaranth> where did Hobbsee go?
<jussi01> wtf...lol... this guy is funny,,,
<crimsun> Amaranth: to work.
<jussi01> hehehe....
<ajmitch> jussi01: it gets tiresome after awhile
<jussi01> ajmitch: yeah, I can imagine. 
<jussi01> ajmitch: did you see my link yesterday? :P
<ajmitch> no
<jussi01> wait one... :P
<ajmitch> will I care?
<jussi01> ajmitch: not really...
<jussi01> it was just a wind up... 
<jussi01> http://www.fmi.fi/weather/local.html?Keywords=&kunta=Tampere
<ajmitch> oh that
* jussi01 enjoys his sunshine...
<LaserJock> boy this is a great bug report "just playing and then all of a sudden it crashed."
<jussi01> LaserJock: congrats on core dev 
<jussi01> I was just reading planet, that was correct right?
<crimsun> what, you mean you can't fix the bug AND cure world hunger from that bug report?  Sheesh.  What kind of core-dev are you?!
<ajmitch> crimsun: don't doubt the deity
* crimsun grovels
<LaserJock> jussi01: thanks
<jussi01> :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: yes, I waved my magic wand and it was done ;-)
* jussi01 has been travelling and hasnt kept up properly...
* crimsun grovels in awe
<LaserJock> actually, I'm finding the joys of the new "Incomplete" status
<crimsun> nixternal: your "automagic lease" should be happy with the latest network-manager* uploads.
<jussi01> crimsun grovelling? this must be some amazing deity...
<crimsun> jussi01: it's the MOTU deity.  It goes without saying that they're amazing.
<crimsun> I'm just some peon slaving on bug reports.
<jussi01> :D
<LaserJock> crimsun: I'm trying to slog through too, although not as well as you
<LaserJock> I had to have bdmurray give me a little how-to today :-)
<crimsun> nah, seb is the master slogger
<crimsun> It used to be "Reject with impunity" - I guess it's "Invalid or Won't Fix with impunity"
* Fujitsu hugs th new coloured bug listings.
<TheMuso> pfft colour.
* Fujitsu hoped they'd s/Confirmed/Accepted/ and bring it back to how it used to be :(
<nixternal> woohoo
* LaserJock suddenly gets an urge to go on a "Won't Fix/Invalid" spree
* StevenK runs off to the football
<Fujitsu> Ew, football.
<StevenK> It's at least AFL
<jussi01> StevenK: who is playing?
<StevenK> jussi01: Sydney Swans and Collingwood Magpies
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Even worse.
<jussi01> StevenK: ugh
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Oh?
<jussi01> Go WEST COAST!!
* StevenK kills jussi01. Violently
<man-di_> Can someone tell me how often patches.ubuntu.com is updated?
<StevenK> Oh geez, I'll bugger off and feel all unloved.
<jussi01> lol
<LaserJock> Swans and Magpies? and I thought US sports teams were named oddly
<crimsun> man-di_: cjwatson and keybuk would know
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: The full list should be at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_AFL_team_squads
<Fujitsu> Hm, that doesn't have the associated animals/whatevers.
<man-di_> crimsun: thx
<LaserJock> US college teams are usually pretty funny
<LaserJock> near me there is, I think it is, the Santa Cruz Banana Slugs
<Fujitsu> How strange.
<Fujitsu> We've got mostly conventional animals, except we've got the Demons and Bombers as well, AFAIK.
<crimsun> better than the UCI Anteaters, I suppose.
<talex_> Hi. I'm looking for someone to review my package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5670 It's just a new upstream release; shouldn't be any problems.
<LaserJock> oh yes, that Anteaters
<LaserJock> there are a lot of weird California uni mascots
<ajmitch> LaserJock: well it's california...
<LaserJock> my thoughts exactly
<LaserJock> well, I've managed to "Incomplete" almost all of gcompris' 24 bugs
<LaserJock> I gotta do a whole lota bug work to get anywhere close to crimsun's karma
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Fujitsu> Damn, I'm only 8th on the bug karma rank.
<Fujitsu> I haven't touched more than a few bugs in the past couple of weeks, I guess.
<LaserJock> bah
<Fujitsu> Can I kill off bug #111405?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111405 in pcb "pcb window doesn't fit in 1024x768" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111405
<crimsun> pssht. Look at seb's karma.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: you still have 6 times more karma than me
<Fujitsu> Yeah, Seb's isn't bad.
<LaserJock> and mine is 1/2 from specs :/
<Fujitsu> He has like 8 times as much :(
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Broken anything in main yet?
<LaserJock> no
<ajmitch> if he hasn't, he's not trying hard enough
<crimsun> yeah, that's your real test ;-)
<LaserJock> I'm working on triaging some bugs
<Fujitsu> Bah, evil mayavi maintainer. Let's all use /usr/bin/python2.4 in our postinsts, and depend on python.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> so what's Confirmed supposed to be now?
<Fujitsu> Whatever Triaged isn't.
<LaserJock> heh, ok
<Fujitsu> But nobody uses Triaged, because nobody's sure what it's for, and it isn't shown by default because somebody screwed up.
* LaserJock decides to set a bug as "Triaged"
<crimsun> that's...bloody.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Um?
<crimsun> (I couldn't think of a word to proceed "bloody", so I just omitted.)
<Fujitsu> Even so: Um?
<crimsun> what's the use of Triaged if nobody's sure what it's for?
<LaserJock> because we're "supposed" to know what it's for
<LaserJock> our great bug overlords will enlighten us
<crimsun> wait, aren't you our liaison to LP?
<ajmitch> this is what we call working with the community
<Fujitsu> "Triaged will mean that a bug has all the information attached to it that a developer needs to fix it. The 'confirmed' state was previously used for this purpose, but many users were 'confirming' bugs when observed by a second person."
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Yep, they're really neat like that.
<Fujitsu> It's also neat how they notify their userbase of these changes.
<LaserJock> crimsun: ssssshhh, don't bring that up
<Fujitsu> -devel-discuss was the only place notified prior to the change... Not even launchpad-users.
<LaserJock> well, I tell yeah. I was pretty "surprised" and not necessarily in a good way
<LaserJock> I'm the MOTU liason to LP, I was at Sevilla, and talked with kiko and BjornT about status changes
<LaserJock> and I had no idea that they were going to do that
<DarkMageZ> Fujitsu, please don't fight the dictionary... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/confirmed
<Fujitsu> Apparently they felt that UDS BoFs were enough community discussion.
<LaserJock> I was only aware of a Rejected -> Invalid, Won't Fix
<DarkMageZ> Fujitsu, maybe there should be a "confirmed" which would indicate that others can replicate and something else that marks that there is enough information for devs.
<Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: I think that's what it's meant to mean now.
<DarkMageZ> oh, misread :P
<Fujitsu> Anyway, I hope the LP people have realised that a lot of people are most displeased at the lack of notification or discussion with the userbase. With any luck it'll improve in future.
<LaserJock> well, I keep pushing for more "Tell us *before* it happens" but well, I haven't seen a lot of it
<LaserJock> it took forever to get an announcement on launchpad-users
<LaserJock> Revell really needs to get on top of those, IMO
<Fujitsu> They probably thought it'd be a nice surprise for all their project maintainers to have any external tools broken and statuses renamed without notice.
<Fujitsu> That is mrevell's job, isn't it?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> well, I'm sure it's not easy. Hopefully there was enough frustration with this status thing to get things changed a bit
<LaserJock> perhaps new.launchpad.net will help
<LaserJock> although if they can't say anything until it's been release then that's an issue
* ajmitch tries the rsync magic
<Fujitsu> The new release structure means they do know what's going to appear each month some weeks beforehand.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: What're you rsyncing?
<ajmitch> bugs.d.o
<Fujitsu> So I suspected.
<ajmitch> first run for awhile
<Fujitsu> Might take a little while.
<Fujitsu> LP'
<ajmitch> 524038 files to consider
<Fujitsu> *LP's growing Debian bug imports in 1.1.7, I believe.
<Fujitsu> Ouch.
<ajmitch> it'll only have to rsync a fraction of that
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice if Malone also imported some kind of priority information.
<ajmitch> some new indexes though
<Fujitsu> s/priority/importance/
<Fujitsu> indices!
<ajmitch> it'd be nice if malone got some version tracking & bug dependencies, too
<Fujitsu> Yeah, but that's asking a bit much.
<ajmitch> both forms of the plural are acceptable
<Fujitsu> They're doing really useful stuff like making pie charts of bugs! Wooohooo!
<Fujitsu> Really useful.
<LaserJock> bug dependencies are being worked on
<ajmitch> yay!
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: :O Really?
<LaserJock> I don't know how much, but I've seen something
<ajmitch> I talked with bjorn about versions at UDS, I don't think he was convinced though
<Fujitsu> He needs to be convinced, then.
<ajmitch> it's only a fairly recent feature in debbugs
<LaserJock> what do you mean?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Right, but it grew that feature, so it must be useful.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's what I'm using for this rc bugs list - a bug is found in package version X, fixed in version Y
<talex_> Is anyone free to review the zeroinstall-injector package? I uploaded 0.28 a while back, but it didn't get any comments. Then 0.29 came out and I uploaded a package for that: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5670
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ah, yeah
<Fujitsu> apport is going to be maintaining its own version database. That's just stupid.
<minghua> Using debbugs and malone are two completely different experiences for me
<Fujitsu> Malone is good at some things, but it lacks some features (like dependencies and versioning) that makes debbugs useful.
<Fujitsu> And the lack of priorities on Debian bug imports will limit the usefulness.
<LaserJock> well, I can't remember what the rationale for not doing versions was
<Fujitsu> Probably it'd make the UI too complicated, or something like that.
<LaserJock> but knowing what version we fix something in is very useful
<ajmitch> probably that a package version was distro-specific
<ajmitch> so you'd need to match distro/version, and it'd complicate things with bug tasks on multiple distros
<Fujitsu> We're going to need that feature eventually.
* ajmitch shrugs
<LaserJock> well, tbh, I just don't know how having multiple distros on the same bug tracker is really ever going to work very well
<Fujitsu> Especially because LP is closed and controlled by a company with an obvious interest in one particular distro. Other distros would have to be crazy to use it.
<LaserJock> well, a number of derivs already are
<LaserJock> which causes oddities
<Fujitsu> They're derivatives, though. Not distinct distros as such.
<Fujitsu> Like what?
<LaserJock> like baltix tasks everywhere
<Fujitsu> Oh, yes.
<Fujitsu> That gets irritating.
<LaserJock> and sometimes they sort of "bump" into each other
<Fujitsu> The upstream linking is a good idea.
<LaserJock> blah, 1am
<LaserJock> time for me to go bed
<Fujitsu> Night.
<LaserJock> finally got the stupid printer to work
<LaserJock> had to use a generic color laserjet driver for my PSC
<Fujitsu> My PSC1210 works fine.
<LaserJock> in Windows?
<Fujitsu> Ahh, I've never tried it there.
<Fujitsu> Probably because the drivers are like 200MB..
<LaserJock> yeah, well I found the driver for it
<LaserJock> but it *only* works with local printers
<LaserJock> anyway, night all
<Fujitsu> Another thing I'd like to see in LP is importing of Debian info for the Overview tab (as the bugs are coming soon), rather than having to head over to p.q.d.o or b.d.o
<talex_> Hi. I'm looking for someone to review my package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5670 It's just a new upstream release; shouldn't be any problems.
<crimsun> I just uploaded it.
<talex_> Thanks!
* Fujitsu thinks gnome-power-manager should give some warning (other than `You have 20 minutes remaining!') before shutting the system down.
<giskard_> Fujitsu, it should do this
<giskard_> it should send message also when battery is critically low 
<Fujitsu> I left it for 30 seconds no more than 2 or 3 minutes after it gave me that warning, and came back to find the system half shutdown.
<Fujitsu> Granted, my battery does only give 1.5 hours.
* RAOF things g-p-m should stop counting time-while-suspended in it's battery discharge profile.  Much as I'd love it, my batteries *don't* get 10 hours life on a full charge.
* Fujitsu must remember to get a new battery at some point soon.
<RAOF> Fujitsu: Still, that's not the behaviour I see.  g-p-m is quite happy to let me run my battery down to 3%.
<Amaranth> sure, if you tell it to ignore time remaining and use the percentages
<RAOF> I haven't actually *seen* that option, so I don't think I've changed it from default :)
<RAOF> Just another ping about bug #121476.  I just want to make sure it's in a state where someone will look at it when they are in a sponsoring mood, and the packaging-in-bzr workflow is unfamiliar to me (and doesn't seem to be as well documented as debdiffing)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121476 in mplayer "Use Compiz' "video" plugin when available" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121476
<Fujitsu> RAOF: I've looked at it, but I'm not familiar enough with the mplayer codebase to check the patch. Do you have a link to the email?
* ajmitch would think that siretart would know it best
<RAOF> Fujitsu: There's a link in the debian changelog.
<RAOF> Here it is: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/compiz/2007-March/001576.html
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<RAOF> I've also just pushed a revision that merges in the -ubuntu11 changes done after that branch was taken, so the tree should successfully merge with trunk as of now.
<RAOF> Also, on a triaging note, is that how such a bug should be left?
<siretart> ajmitch: sorry?
<RAOF> siretart: He was talking about bug #121476
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121476 in mplayer "Use Compiz' "video" plugin when available" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121476
<ajmitch> siretart: Fujitsu was just mentioning that he didn't know the source well enough to comment much
<siretart> RAOF: wow. that's quite a big patch. I'm not familiar with the code either.
<TheMuso> Good ${Time_Of_Day} to you all.
<siretart> RAOF: did you or the compiz guys talk to the mplayer devs about this?
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
<RAOF> siretart: I didn't, and I don't know anyone who did.
<siretart> RAOF: please /join #mplayer and do
* TheMuso decides to set up a shared aptcache for all his sbuild/LVM setups on his boxes.
* RAOF is just about to have dinner, but I'll join later.
<siretart> RAOF: please hilight me if you do so I find it in the backlog. need to attend a bof now
<RAOF> siretart: Certainly.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<RAOF> TheMuso: Man, you're good at that :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Blame the software I have to use to do my computer tasks.
<RAOF> Which is?
<highvoltage> A poor workman always blames his fools
<highvoltage> *tools
<highvoltage> damn keyboard!
<TheMuso> RAOF: Speakup mainly, but add my KVM to the mix, and things get messy.
<RAOF> Ah.
<TheMuso> yay! I now have a shared apt cache for all my sbuild/LVM chroots.
<RAOF> Huzzah!
<cbx33> hey RAOF 
<RAOF> cbx33: Hey :)
<davromaniak> Hi
<davromaniak> I have to package a program which uses gettext, does it needs special buildeps ??
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: to work.  why?
<Amaranth> ha
<Amaranth> we had a troll in #ubuntu-devel
<Hobbsee> yummy
<Amaranth> yeah
* Amaranth heads for bed
<Hobbsee> did they get him?
<Amaranth> no, he left on his own
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
<cbx33> hey can someone help with a pacakge?
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
<cbx33> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~petesavage/vcs-frenzy/trunk/files/petesavage%40ubuntu.com-20070601205206-xckyam97r3q4wedk
<cbx33> can someone tell me how I would split out the svn and bzr py files in the plugins folder to be in seperate bniary debs
<cbx33> but built from the same source deb
<cbx33> the makefile is used to cater for py versions
<cbx33> any takers?
<RAOF> Put two binary packages in the control, and have different binary-pakcage-name.install files?
<cbx33> well that's the plan
<cbx33> but
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> the makefile complicates the issue I think
<RAOF> Which makefile?
<cbx33> in the root of the dirs
<cbx33> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~petesavage/vcs-frenzy/trunk/annotate/petesavage%40ubuntu.com-20070601205206-xckyam97r3q4wedk?file_id=makefile-20070510150748-m3hnibdgz7gz3czl-1
<RAOF> I don't see how that could complicate... oh.
<RAOF> Ah, yes.
<RAOF> Still, I think it should just work
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> those files are not installed by the vcsfrenzy.install file though
<RAOF> Actually, why do you have that makefile again?
<cbx33> to deal with different versions of python
<cbx33> so it gets put in the right site-packages folder
<RAOF> But you're not building extension modules at all, and python-support should do the site-packages for you, no?
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> but if someone has py2.4 or 2.5
<cbx33> how do we know where to install it?
<RAOF> You don't, that's the whole point of python-support.
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> oh
<RAOF> python-support bytecompiles your modules into every appropriate site-packages location.
<cbx33> ogra, showed me this way of doing it
<cbx33> so
<cbx33> where should they be installed?
<cbx33> if I was to use .install fils
<RAOF> man dh_pysupport is probably what you're after.
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> gtg
<RAOF> So, everything goes into /usr/share/python-support
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> thanks RAOF 
<RAOF> NP :)
<cbx33> looking forward to working with you
<RAOF> You too.
<davromaniak> how can I do to "force" a version of GCC for a package ??
<RAOF> Add it in the build-depends?
<RAOF> I presume you mean something like gcc 3.4, gcc 4.2, etc?  Not simply a specific pakcage version of the default gcc?
<RAOF> davromaniak: And then you need to teach the buildsystem to use the specific gcc.  You can probably do that by setting the CC variable to what you want (CC=gcc-3.4 , for example), but that depends on the actual build system your package source has.
<davromaniak> ok
<davromaniak> I am testing it, thx
<jekil> if in my sw.orig.tar there is a lot of .svn dir, the right way is delete this in rules right?
<RAOF> Bad upstream, no biscuit.
<RAOF> You might want to just repack the tarball, no?
<jekil> the source that i can download are these
<stgraber> In that case you can take the .tar.gz from them, remove the .svn dir, then repack it and put a line like "Removed all .svn from original .tar.gz + repacked" in the changelog
<stgraber> at least that's how I recently did with a .tar.gz from upstream containing .git dirs
<jekil> ok, thanks
<jekil> i am asking here because i read in all documentation "you can't modify orig.tar.gz"
<stgraber> well, if you want to modify the source code or things like that you have to use patches, but removing repository dirs or existing debian/ dirs are ok as soon as you say so in the changelog
<jekil> ok, thanks a lot
<jekil> and if i have a foo.tar.gz, if i extract that i have foo-3.3 but software and package in named bar, i must rename the dir and the tar.gz?
<RAOF> jekil: Is upstream really that confused?  Urgh.
<RAOF> jekil: What package, incidentally?
<jekil> metasploit
<jekil> the software is metasploti, but the tar is framework-3.0.tar.gz that conteins framework-3.0
<jekil> so, i must rename it?
<RAOF> I've never had to deal with that, so I'm not sure.
<DarkMageZ> the ubuntu packaging guide says to never modify the content of a .tar.gz unless absolutally nessesary. i don't think the change in this case is an exception.
<tarzeau> here's how: http://people.debian.org/~daniel//documents/packaging.html
<tarzeau> (it's how debian does it, but i think it also applies to ubuntu in a way or another)
<DarkMageZ> jekil, i'd recommend in the control section of your package. set the source as framework and package as metaspolit :P
<jekil> DarkMageZ: great, thanks
<siretart> StevenK: around?
<StevenK> siretart: Yup. What's up?
<siretart> StevenK: I'm currently at a lintian bof at debconf7. can you give me a status update about linda's status?
<siretart> StevenK: what are your plans with linda?
<StevenK> siretart: Plans? What plans?
<siretart> StevenK: ah, I see :)
<StevenK> siretart: I haven't really got any at this point.
<siretart> ok
<StevenK> siretart: Suggestions, bribes and donations all gratefully recieved.
<_MMA_> Hobbsee: I dont think there's anything to bug 121873. I just installed wacom-kernel-source on 2 Ubuntu Studio and 1 Ubuntu machines no problem. If they dont add info over the next week Im gonna make it invalid.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121873 in wacom-tools "ununtustudio: wacom-kernel-source cannot be installed through synaptic" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121873
<Hobbsee> _MMA_: cool.  go ahead :)
<polopolo> hello all, what does a MOTU with backports?
<Hobbsee> polopolo: poke jdong about it, and test that the proposed backported app works in the release wanted
<polopolo> ok
<polopolo> thank you Hobbsee, I gonna reinstall kubuntu
<Hobbsee> no problem
<polopolo> yeah, I #!@# my sources.list
<Hobbsee> oh dear
<polopolo> Hobbsee, maby does not make care, but should I first install debian 4.0 and then kubuntu 7.04, or otherwize?
<Hobbsee> polopolo: are you wanting to run kubuntu or debian?
<polopolo> yes, kubuntu for personal and package use, and debian for package use :P
<Hobbsee> right...i suspect you want to run a pbuilder
<Hobbsee> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Hobbsee> and install kubuntu
<polopolo> pbuilder?!
<Hobbsee> for package use
<Hobbsee> depends what exact package use you want
<Hobbsee> or you could dual boot, of course
<polopolo> :D
<Hobbsee> you cant run both debian and kubuntu at the same time
<polopolo> I know it, I now use windows xp and kubuntu on dual boot
<polopolo> I gonna first install debian and then kubuntu, bye all
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<polopolo> TheMuso: Night
<highvoltage> I'm following the walkthrough on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<highvoltage> and when I do the debuild -S -sa, it says:
<highvoltage> debian/rules:3: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
<highvoltage> debian/rules:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk: No such file or directory
<highvoltage> and some more of that... seems like I negleted to install a package?
<nixternal> you have cdbs in build-deps?
<nixternal> or rather, installed locally
<geser> sudo apt-get install cdbs
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> ya
<highvoltage> ok, will do
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: install cdbs
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: got it, thanks!
<Hobbsee> :)
<highvoltage> I looked at debuild --help, but id doesn't say what the -S and -sa does. what does it do?
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: use man debuild
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: -S == source, -sa == upload the source tarball too
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: whereas -sd == upload the .diff.gz, .dsc, .source_changes only
<highvoltage> aaah
<Hobbsee> :)
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> no problem
<nixternal> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -k<key_id>
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> I have that in a file called nixit
<nixternal> hehe
<highvoltage> nixternal: heh
<Hobbsee> nixternal: mine's called origbuild
<Hobbsee> ther'es also revubuild
<Hobbsee> which is s/-sa/-sd/
<nixternal> hmm, good idea with the revubuild one
<persia> Does anyone have an opinion on the value of a merge from Debian when the changes in the Debian package represent a subset of the changes already applied in the Ubuntu package?
<persia> My preference is to wait until there is either a new update to the Debian package, or another bugfix update required for the Ubuntu package, but I wanted to check to see if anyone else had a preference or thought it needed MOTU meeting discussion before altering the wiki.
<RainCT> Adri2000: what's missing on the Sync?
<RainCT> Adri2000: ah ok, Debian's new changelog entries?
<RainCT> Adri2000: or what?
<Adri2000> RainCT: yes, but wait, it seems that someone uploaded it
<RainCT> yep, there's a 0.7.6-3
<Adri2000> in ubuntu I mean
<Adri2000> a -3build1
<Adri2000> because actually a *fake*sync was needed
<RainCT> ye,s * Fake sync with Debian (different orig.tar.gz)
<Adri2000> so you can close your sync request
<RainCT> then that's why there were those 2 files M-o-M complained about?
<Adri2000> maybe, and I think I told you the orig tarballs were the same. in this case I was wrong :)
<geser> which package?
<Adri2000> gfax
<RainCT> gfax
<geser> RainCT: I guess that were changes that MoM could apply, like the Maintainer change but the Debian maintainer changed or something like that
<Adri2000> geser: MoM reported conflicts on .gmo files iirc
<geser> oh
<Adri2000> http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gfax/gfax_0.7.6.orig.tar.gz doesn't not contain any po/*.gmo, while ubuntu's orig tarball does
<Adri2000> s/not //
<Adri2000> that explains MoM's output
<RainCT> are this .gmo files actually needed for anything?
<jerome_> hello
<jerome_> I would like to have access to revu
<jerome_> I have a launchpad account and n uploaded gpg key
<persia> jerome_: Have you joined the launchpad group (ubuntu-universe-contributors)?
<Adri2000> RainCT: they are created during the build process, and shouldn't be shipped in the orig tarball. upstream tarball ships them, and the debian maintainer probably removed them
<jerome_> persia : yes
<persia> jerome_: OK.  It should take 10-15 minutes then :)
<jerome_> persia : thank you
<RainCT> Adri2000: ok, so the normal sync would have been ok?
<Adri2000> RainCT: no, because our orig.tar.gz is different from the orig.tar.gz in Debian (since the debian maintainer made changes to it)
<Adri2000> when a tarball of a given upstream version is in the archive, it cannot be changed without changing the upstream version number
<RainCT> Adri2000: ah ok, it's uploaded automatically?
<Adri2000> RainCT: hmm?
<RainCT> Adri2000: are new upstream tarballs uploaded automatically to the archive?
<Adri2000> we upload the orig.tar.gz only when it's a new upstream version, when it's just a change to the packaging, we don't. but the size and the md5sum of the orig.tar.gz are written in the .dsc. therefore, even if we do not upload the orig.tar.gz, the upload can be rejected saying "md5sum mismatch of the orig tarball". that what would have happened if an archive admin had tried to process your sync request : the md5sum written in the debian .dsc 
<Adri2000> and a fakesync is, basically: get the debian package, replace the debian orig tarball with our orig tarball, recreate the source package so that the .dsc contains the size and the md5sum of our orig tarball
<persia> jerome_: The keys are now synchronised.  Please try an upload, and let me know if it doesn't work.
<jerome_> persia : when I try to login on revu I get : ogin for user "jerome.guelfucci@gmail.com" failed, please retry or recover
<persia> jerome_: Have you uploaded anything yet?
<jerome_> no
<jerome_> but i thought i had to register before
<persia> jerome_: That's the problem then :)  REVU doesn't let you log in until you have uploaded something.  You do need to register first (by joining the launchpad team, and asking someone to sync the keys)m but that's done now :)
<jerome_> ah ok
<jerome_> now i can use dput ?
<persia> jerome_: I believe it should work.  Please try, and let me know if there is a problem.
<jerome_> persia ok
<RainCT> Adri2000: ok thanks
<jerome_> persia : the checking signature fails
<jerome_> it says no valid Openpgp data available
<persia> jerome_: which package?
<jerome_> (I'm translating from french)
<jerome_> python-soya
<jerome_> persia : i tried to upload the .changes file
<jerome_> persia : is it a problem with revu or with not signing the file correctly ?
<persia> jerome_: Hmmm.  Double translation can be confusing.  Is your error closer to ""Error verifying signature on %s" or "Can't verify signature on %s ... (something about PGP)"?  If it's nothing like either of these, please pastebin the error.
<persia> jerome_: I think it's a problem with signing the file.  By the way, which bug are you working on?
<jerome_> persia : this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/soya/+bug/117840
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117840 in soya "Wishlist: Update python-soya package" [Wishlist,In progress]  
<jerome_> persia : output > http://pastebin.ca/586006
<persia> jerome_: Thanks for that.  There are two issues at hand: firstly that the .changes file is not signed, and secondly that REVU requires source uploads, rather than binary uploads.  I would recommend building a source package with `debuild -S -sa` from the package directory, and then uploading the source.changes file.
<persia> Note that if you have not already done so, you will need to set DEBEMAIL in your environment.
<jerome_> persia : in bashrc ?
<jerome_> persia : ok i understood why i was wrong
<persia> jerome_: Some people put it in .bashrc, but you can also do it from the command line, either with export or inline with debuild, or add it to any other sourced file in your environment.
<jerome_> i tried to upload the result of my pbuilder build
<jerome_> now it works
<jerome_> persia : thanks a lot
<persia> jerome_: You report "it works", but I don't see a python-soya upload.  Which is working (or am I missing something)?
<jerome_> i've just uploaded it
<jerome_> and just got :
<jerome_> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com):
<jerome_>   soya_0.13.1-0ubuntu1.dsc: done.
<jerome_>   soya_0.13.1.orig.tar.gz: done.
<jerome_>   soya_0.13.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz: done.
<jerome_>   soya_0.13.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
<jerome_> Successfully uploaded packages.
<Hobbsee> jerome_: are you a MOTU?
<jerome_> hobbsee : not yet...
<Hobbsee> jerome_: then you uploaded it to the wrong place
<persia> jerome_: Ah.  You'll get a reject soon (you uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com).  Try {dput revu python-soya*ource.changes`.
<jerome_> mmm ok i modified dput.cf in the wrong section0
<persia> jerome_: On the other hand, it appears you have solved all the signing issues :)
<jerome_> :)
<jerome_> persia : ok this time i uploaded to revu :)
<beuno> aaaaalright...  I'm feaaling packagingee today, what can I help with?
<persia> jerome_: I see soya_0.13.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes uploaded.  It should be processed in the next 5 minutes or so.  Once it appears on REVU, you can "recover" your newly assigned password as described on the login failure page.
<jerome_> persia : ok thank you
<jerome_> i got to go now
<Adri2000> beuno: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO ... but it seems that the links are broken, so you can help updating the links ;)
<jerome_> thank you for your help
<persia> jerome_: Please also attach the output of `diff -urN` on the two debian directories to the bug to aid in reviewing, and add a comment to REVU indicating to which bug this upload applies.
<jerome_> persia : ok i will do the diff tomorrow cause i got to go
<jerome_> but will add the comment
<beuno> Adri2000: anything specific you would prefer me to focus on?  as in packaging something specific
<Adri2000> beuno: what you prefer: there are programs to package, new upstream versions to package. on the bug side, there are tags with bitesize (easy) bugs and packaging bugs
<beuno> Adri2000: cool, I'll grab an RFP and go with that then
<jussi01> hello everyone!
<AndyP> what do we do if upstream already has a debian directory but the package still needs packaging for ubuntu (or debian)?
<AndyP> hi jussi01 
<jussi01> hiya AndyP
<jussi01> AndyP: smack upstream?
<jussi01> :P
<AndyP> i've tried, no reply :/
<AndyP> (where smack == ask them about their intentions wrt debian)
<jussi01> hehe, nice
<persia> AndyP: Is the upstream debian/ directory useful, or does it contain lots of .ex files, etc.?
<AndyP> persia: looks quite clean at first glance
<persia> AndyP: In that case, I'd recommend just modifying the files as you need for your packaging purposes (aligning with upstream regarding debhelper vs. CDBS, etc. is often also a good idea), and adding a debian/README.Debian-source reporting that upstream ships a debian/ directory, and you have modified is considerably.
<AndyP> persia: ok will do, thanks
<persia> AndyP: The most important things are usually to wipe debian/changelog (upstreams often have several versions, none of which were ever released), triple-check debian/copyright (upstreams rarely have much experience with this), and to carefully review debian/control to make sure that the package is broken correctly (-data for large usr/share, libfoo / libfoo-dev for libraries, etc.).
<jussi01> persia: question: do I listen to you or ScottK? :D (take a glance at mnemosyne on revu if you dont know what im on about)
<persia> s/broken/split/
<persia> jussi01: About python, ScottK is 99% more likely to be right, but I'll take a look now to see what you mean.
<jussi01> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5626
<jussi01> if it helps
<AndyP> persia: ok, noted
<persia> jussi01: Ah.  In this case, we're both correct.  If mnemosyne is to be a new replacement for memaid, I'm correct.  If it is intended to be a parallel install, ScottK is correct.  I'd recommend contacting both upstreams and the Debian memaid maintainer to get input on whether memaid is still a useful package and maintained as open-source.  If it is, the you probably want a parallel installation, so follow ScottK's advice.  If not, and the packages
* persia dislikes buffers
<persia> If it is, the you probably want a parallel installation, so follow ScottK's advice.  If not, and the packages are broadly the same (likely, with that much code similarity), and the Debian maintainer agrees, replacement is probably a good idea.  If you're still unsure after investigating, send a mail to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c asking for more opinions and including the results of your research.
<jussi01> persia: ok. Thank you.
<persia> Personally, I think a replacement seems right, but coordinating with Debian for this is best (and I don't use memaid, so my opinion isn't very strong).
<ScottK> jussi01: Where you would HAVE to replace it is if you installed files with the same names in the same places.  
<jussi01> hmmmm, just reading the memaid site, and its no longer maintained....
<jussi01> http://memaid.sourceforge.net/
<ScottK> jussi01: Imagine you're a memaid user who wants to try out mnemosyne.  How happy would you be if installing the new program removed the old one.
<jussi01> aha...good point...
<persia> jussi01: That's why I think a transition is good, but Scott raises a good point: specifically that having packages in only in Ubuntu that conflict with a Debian package can lead to confusion.
* jussi01 cries...
<persia> ScottK: I think this case is like gaim -> pidgin: the name changed, but the code (and API) are nearly the same.  Couldn't this be addressed with some maintainer scripts to process any affected configuration files (and appropriate notes in debian/control)?
<persia> (assuming it is well coordinated with Debian)
<ScottK> persia: I think it's not.  I think it's more like Seamonkey/Firefox.
<ScottK> You've got essentially a new program that provides the same function as the old one, but with a substantially different code base.
<ScottK> persia: In this case I think the user base is likely small enough that it's safe just to let it install in parallel and not sweat it.
<persia> ScottK: No so substantially different.  The APIs are the same, and a large number of files distributed in memaid are earlier versions (by the mnemosyne author) of the files in mnemosyne.
<ScottK> Right, but we install them (I think) in different locations so there is no actual conflict.
<persia> ScottK: In general, I prefer to dispose of older packages that are no longer maintained upstream, if there is a current open codebase for essentially the same thing.
* jussi01 is learning lots, its good! :D
<persia> ScottK: That's true.  Perhaps a transition release?  Both for gutsy, and move to only mnemosyne for gutsy+1?  The issue here is that nobody is fixing bugs in memaid (except, maybe, the Debian maintainer).
<ScottK> persia: I agree.  I think the right thing to do here is let them install in parallel and then at some point in the future file a removal request for memaid (that would be when I'd make mnemosyne replace memaid).
<ScottK> Right.
<persia> jussi01: Please listed to ScottK, specifically, the latest comment.  This is the correct way to do it :)
<ScottK> It shouldn't be that hard for jussi01 to get his package into Debian either.
<persia> jussi01: Also, do coordinate with Debian, as it would be of great benefit to Ubuntu if Debian also was transitioning this package.
<jussi01> persia: ok, thank you both for your time
<ScottK> jussi01: Once we get your package into Ubuntu, I'll help you get it into Debian (I'm not a DD, but have gotten through the process).
<jussi01> ScottK: excellent! thanks a lot.
<jussi01> ok, Im heading out to the shop. Thank you ScottK and persia.
<persia> Ah.  memaid is maintained by Debian QA: they would probably be happy to drop the package, with a reasonable replacement.
<ScottK> Yes.
<AndyP> persia: should i mention all of my changes to the upstream debian/* files or would "* Packaged for Ubuntu based on upstream's debian dir (Fixes LP #120213)" be sufficient?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120213 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] gmusicbrowser missing in repositories" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120213
<AndyP> since it's pretty much the initial packaging, i don't think the detail matters too much really
<persia> AndyP: That's probably sufficient for a start.  I'd recommend also adding additional entries if you need to apply any patches, need to make any significant changes to install locations, or need to change how the package is split into multiple binaries (if this applies), etc.  This way whoever updates to the next new upstream will have an easier time.
<AndyP> persia: right, makes sense
<ScottK> AndyP: I think that minimally it's OK, but that it'd be nice for whoever looks at the package later to be able to at least generally reconstruct what you did and why.
<persia> AndyP: Also, I agree that the details of the specific changes against upstream debian/ are not important: but the details of any of your work beyond the standard generate some files and watch it work are important.
<ScottK> persia: Are you OK with mnemosyne as is?  There's a comment from dholbach that he uploaded it, but I don't see that he actually did.
<persia> ScottK: AndyP has already requested upstream to delete debian/.  Do we need to track local changes to this inthe changelog pending upstream removing it (if they are willing)?
<persia> ScottK: It got rejected by the archive admins due to copyright confusion with memaid.  The package is fine, but it needs research and documentation to build sufficient case for inclusion in the archive.
<ScottK> Once you know it's going away, I'd say no, but in the meantime, I think it's good.
<ScottK> persia: OK.
<persia> ScottK: OK
<ScottK> So far when I've asked upstream to remove debian dir, they always say no.
<persia> ScottK: Odd.  I've had success (by proxy) with a couple now.  Depends on upstream, I guess.
<ScottK> OTOH, the guy that I've had trouble with does very good debian dirs, so it's not a big problem.  Mostly I just have to swap out debian/changelog.
<persia> ScottK: That's probably why.  The ones I've seen needed significant changes (different package split, not using debian/patches for upstream changes, using an upstream Makefile instead of debian/rules, etc.).
<AndyP> to be fair i've only given the upstream author 4 days to reply so far but i've been looking for an excuse to de-rustify my packaging skills and even if i get it packaged nicely i'll wait a few more days before uploading it to REVU
<persia> AndyP: No need to wait on REVU.  If you're expecting a new upstream soon (or hoping for one), please add comment stating that this is not a candidate for upload, just a candidate for review.  This way you can collect more comments that might get into the new upstream (copyright seems most common for this).
<AndyP> persia: ah great, that'll be very useful :)
<AndyP> guess i should read the debian perl policy now
<AndyP> this package is currently installing a png and using it as the menu icon but lintian says it should be an xpm - should i convert it and put the xpm in the debian dir or is there some small png->xpm tool i could build-depend on and use during the build?
<persia> AndyP: It's best to convert during the packaging, and then install both .xpm and .png.  The conversion tool you want is `convert` from imagemagick.
<AndyP> persia: ok, thanks
<AndyP> well, i guess the upstream debian packaging wasn't as clean as i thought it was at first glance
<AndyP> hmm, postinst is being generated automatically (i.e. i haven't created them manually) but lintian is still saying "maintainer-script-lacks-debhelper-token debian/postinst" - can i ignore that?
<AndyP> s/them/it/
<AndyP> i think dh_installmenu is generating it
<AndyP> ah.. i guess i need to create stubs with #DEBHELPER# in them
<tsmithe> are there any revu admins around?
<tsmithe> i need ubuntustudio-artwork archiving :)
<tsmithe> (ubuntustudio-look replaces it)
<crimsun> archived.
<tsmithe> thanks lots :)
<tsmithe> crimsun, able to do a review for me?
<tsmithe> (or some reviews, if at all possible :) )
<crimsun> in a bit (~10 mins)
<tsmithe> cool :)
<tsmithe> could you look at ubuntustudio-sounds and ubuntustudio-look, please, crimsun?
<tsmithe> (and if at all possible usplash-theme-ubuntustudio)
<crimsun> argh
<crimsun> if I find this DanBishop, I will smite him
<man-di> crimsun: why?
<crimsun> assigning without providing details == frustration
<man-di> crimsun: oh
* man-di always thinks he dont gives enough infos too
<Burgundavia> slomo_: how goes the soc work?
<AndyP> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5716 - gmusicbrowser's up for review if anyone's bored... i'm in no hurry to get it accepted though
<somerville32> AndyP, I'm not a MOTU but I can take a look for you
<crimsun> kinda funny to prod for revus if you're not in any hurry to get it accepted :p
<somerville32> Andyp: And you should tell upstream not to put debian/ in their tarballs
<AndyP> crimsun: hey it was persia's idea :)
<crimsun> sure, blame the guy whose client is offline
<somerville32> hehe
<crimsun> (meaning not in here ;)
<AndyP> somerville32: i tried contacting them - no answer yet (i had this conversation earlier with persia)
<somerville32> AndyP, You could just delete it yourself then
<AndyP> somerville32: as i said, we discussed this and persia said i could base my packaging on the existing debian dir
<somerville32> Why do you need upstream's ok?
<AndyP> i don't... i just wanted to ask them to remove it, and ask them if they were going to submit it to debian or ubuntu themselves
<AndyP> i'd prefer to cooperate with people than step on their toes :) (plus it'd be less work for me if they did it themselves ;)
* AndyP disappears for dinner
<crimsun> tsmithe: RE: -sounds: we distribute the Artistic under /usr/share/common-licenses/ as well.  The additional clause may be problematic.  I leave that to the archive admins.
<crimsun> tsmithe: (thus, please prepare a new upload with that change regarding /usr/share/common-licences/Artistic in debian/copyright)
* calc waves at crimsun 
<crimsun> hello Chris
<tsmithe> crimsun, yes, but the licence included was an older version, so i decided to use the included version than risk any changes
<crimsun> tsmithe: including it is fine, just make sure to note that /usr/share/common-licences/Artistic does exist.
<tsmithe> right sure
<calc> if the license is verbatim what is in common-licenses it can save space to just refer to it
<tsmithe> it's not, thought :)
<calc> depends on if the fs has tail reuse on
<calc> or whatever its called tail packing, etc
<calc> but even then it may only save 1-2MB on a system with lots of packages
<tsmithe> *though
<crimsun> hmm, we should distutils asoundconf-ui
<tsmithe> mmm
<crimsun> oh, while you're here, I noticed that ~/.asoundrc.asoundconf is written on every combobox activation
<crimsun> (in displaygtk.py)
<tsmithe> it is? oh... that needs fixing
<crimsun> that seems a bit excessive IMO.
<tsmithe> yep
<crimsun> what I do is enable "Apply"  ("Close" in the -gtk case, it seems) only upon activation, and then clicking Apply invokes the writeConf() method, which will then disable the Apply pushbutton upon writeConf()'s success
<tsmithe> yes, but i want it to be always closable with that button, and i'd like to ensure that the changes are applied when that button is pressed
<tsmithe> in case something funky happened with the combobox change
<crimsun> right, so your Close likely needs a hook
<crimsun> I skirt the issue completely by removing "Close" and having the user use the window manager's Close
<crimsun> it's not very good UI, but I'm not sure if KDE apps normally have a Quit PushButton, too
<tsmithe> heh, i think it's nice having a tabbable button, rather than pressing alt-f4, or having to move the mouse up to the corner ;)
<crimsun> if it turns out that KDE apps do have Quit, then I'll just rewire the logic
<tsmithe> heh - it's not like it's particularly tricky :)
<crimsun> it's better UI, anyhow, but I don't want to kill consistency
<tsmithe> good point
<somerville32> AndyP, Are you sure you should be changing upstream's changelog?
<somerville32> AndyP, I would personally keep it
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-24
<AndyP> somerville32: persia said it was important to wipe debian/changelog because the upstream one was never released
<joejaxx> Good Evening All
<Fujitsu> Morning everyone.
<Nafallo> morning Fujitsu 
<geser> Hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi Nafallo, geser.
<LaserJock> morning Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
* Fujitsu wonders when -changes will wake up again.
* Fujitsu also wonders why everything depending on libgconfmm is now dieing with an undefined symbol error. That's not meant to happen, is i
<Fujitsu> *is it?
<LaserJock> hmm, is -changes dead? I hadn't really thought about it
<Fujitsu> -changes died along with changelog-closes-bugs after the last LP rollout.
<LaserJock> I'm 100% mutt now so email has been weird
<LaserJock> I decided I didn't like IMAP
<Fujitsu> Libraries are meant to change their soname when they drop symbols or similar, aren't they?
<geser> if public symbols are dropped then the so-version should be changed
<Fujitsu> Right. But libgconfmm didn't, so now everything depending on it is dead.
<geser> :(
<Fujitsu> What is the best thing to do? Bump the so version and rebuild everything, or just rebuild everything?
<geser> rebuilding would fix it for now but partial upgrades were still broken, so the correct solution would be to bump the so version and rebuild
<Fujitsu> Thought so.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock can fix it with his newfound superpowers!
<Fujitsu> Nyahah.
<geser> Hi persia
<persia> Hi geser
<Fujitsu> Hi persia.
<persia> hi Fujitsu
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
<persia> Hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey persia.
<TheMuso> You guys may be interested in knowing that I have set up a shared apt cache for all my sbuild instances.
<Fujitsu> How're you doing it? Bind something over /var/cache/apt/archive?
<TheMuso> Well its an NFS share, so just mounting it directly as NFS.
<TheMuso> it seems to be working fine.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<TheMuso> This is because I have sbuild set up on three boxes.
<persia> Nifty.
<TheMuso> And have a download quota
<minghua> TheMuso: what is the advantage of your solution over apt-proxy?
<TheMuso> minghua: I don't have to have custom sources.list files for all the sbuild/LVM instances I have.
<TheMuso> And its a lot more trivial to set up IMO.
<minghua> TheMuso: good point on custom repos
<minghua> triviality depends on what you already have, I suppose
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<persia> If debian/copyright is autogenerated by debian/rules, may it be removed in debian/rules clean:?  I'd think that this would result in no debian/copyright from apt-get source packagename and would therefore be bad, but wanted to check before complaining.
<minghua> if there is a debian/copyright.in, I don't see any problem removing debian/copyright in clean
<persia> minghua: For this package, there's a debian/copyright-files/ which contains some portions of the copyright, and a shell script to collect the remainder from various places in the source code.
<AndyP> that sounds weird
<LongPointyStick> that's...special
<persia> AndyP: Yep.  That's why I want other opinions :)
* AndyP tackles another package with an upstream debian directory
<persia> Well, I guess I'll go with the principal of minimal changes then (and not accept deletion of debian/copyright as a undocumented change in a debdiff).
* LaserJock wonders what powers Fujitsu thinks he has
<TheMuso> cd /usr/include/
<TheMuso> gah wrong terminal
* bluefoxicy notices Gutsy uses KVM 16, makes a bug requesting latest version (28 currently) before feature freeze.
<persia> bluefoxicy: Were the issues reported with 28 mentioned at the bottom of the comment thread for bug 119254 resolved?  While KVM needs work, I'm not sure a sync will be better.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119254 in kvm "Fails to create KVM context on linux-image-2.6.22-6" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119254
<ScottK> Fujitsu: changelog-closes-bugs was working again for me ~20 hours ago.
<bluefoxicy> persia:  what issues?
<bluefoxicy> black screen, I'm not sure what guest OS
<bluefoxicy> I know with KVM24 I loaded operating systems and with 16 I load absolutely nothing
<bluefoxicy> KVM16 is slower than straight emulation by a billion times ;)
<bluefoxicy> and hangs barely into run.
<bluefoxicy> KVM16 reminds me of bochs actually <.<
<bluefoxicy> persia:  but maybe a direct sync isn't the answer
<Fujitsu> ScottK: They broke at the same time, but they're not both fixed.
* Fujitsu notes that Compiz is doing strange stuff... when I set the number of desktops to 4, I get a plane rather than a cube. Any other value gives an appropriate shape.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: OK.  Just thought I'd mention that one of them was fixed.  I'd rather have had them fix "Triaged" bugs not showing up in standard searches.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Desktop on a triangle?
<StevenK> /dev/mapper/system-mirror 60G   60G   40K 100% /srv/mirror
<StevenK> Humm.
<persia> bluefoxicy: That's about it: 16 is definitely bad, and 28 (or similar) likely better.  I'm just tempted to mark bug 121940 as invalid, as I'm not sure it will fix the various problems, and based on the KVM changelog, needs coordination with the kernel team.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121940 in kvm "KVM newest version request" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121940
<StevenK> I think the time has come for me to stop mirroring edgy.
<TheMuso> 1/aw Away
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Yeah, that pretty much makes Triaged useless for now.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Or octagonal prism, or whatever.
<Fujitsu> (my SSH session timed out and I didn't notice, hence the slow responses)
<Fujitsu> Hm, why's desktop-effects our problem now?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Are you referring to the compiz demotion?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: because it's redundant
<Fujitsu> ScottK: compiz itself seems to remain in main.
<ajmitch> see system->preferences->appearance
<ScottK> Oh.  I thought I saw some reference to it being demoted and the new merged bling would be in main.
<ajmitch> th new merged bling is in main
<ajmitch> compiz-compcomm-plugins-main | 0.0.0+git20070612-0ubuntu1 | http://nz.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Packages
<ajmitch> that part is yet to be moved
<ajmitch> hence the -main suffix :)
<Fujitsu> compiz-fusion-plugins-* it is now.
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> the virtual package not provided by anything?
<Fujitsu> william@irranat:~/MOTUing$ dpkg -L compiz-fusion-plugins-main | wc -l
<Fujitsu> 73
<Fujitsu> Looks fairly real to me.
<Fujitsu> Can anyone make sense of bug #120152?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120152 in archivemail ""Permission Denied" when archiving from /var/mail directory" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120152
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Nice how he attaches a new copy of the program as a "patch"
<Fujitsu> That's what I thought.
<Fujitsu> It might have been easier to work out what the heck he was talking about if there was a patch/
* Fujitsu uses Won't Fix for the first time.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I can guess what he might mean, but that sounds reasonable.
<Fujitsu> What's he saying? That the user running archivemail can't read root's mailbox? That sounds like a correct behaviour.
<ajmitch> No candidate version found for compiz-fusion-plugins-main
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I think he's saying if a root user runs archivemail it changes the permissions so the regular user can't read it anymore.
<StevenK> ajmitch: How laggy is nz.archive? It's even on my local mirror.
<Fujitsu> Ahh.
<ScottK> StevenK: Probably slowed by the snow.
<ajmitch> StevenK: it's a little odd, since I'm pulling from both nz.a.u.c & a.u.c
* ajmitch even synced his local mirror yesterday
* Fujitsu synced his a few hours ago.
<Fujitsu> That's probably why I've got the new compiz-fusion crack!
<ajmitch> lucky you!
<Fujitsu> Does this mean we can kill off beryl soon?
<ajmitch> please
* ajmitch is currently waiting for debmirror to finish grabbing source crack
<Fujitsu> Oh yay, let's request that a Tcl/Tk application use GNOME file dialogs.
<Burgundavia> we could just kill tcl/tk
* ScottK files a bug against LP for Triaged not showing up in standard searches...
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Already done.
<Fujitsu> Marked High, not Critical, for some stupid reason.
<Fujitsu> Bug #121636
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121636 in malone "when a bug is marked as triaged it disappears" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121636
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I just hit send.  I'll dupe mine to that one.
<Fujitsu> It's quite ironic, considering what Triaged is meant to be used for.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I suspect it's symptomatic of the FUBAR nature of that entire set of changes.  Whoever designed (I use the word losely) it had one very narrow perspective on the work flow and got very little detailed input.  After all, once a bug is "Triaged" triagers don't need to see it anymore because they are done.
<ScottK> Not that I'm bitter or anything.
<ScottK> I guess that should be loosely and not losely...
<Burgundavia> ScottK: that person would be Henrik, I think
<ScottK> Burgundavia: The impression I had was he heard about it at the last minute, but I don't know, nor do I really care.  It's symptomatic of the problems in close source proprietary development processes.
<ScottK> Whoever messed up, it isn't really their fault.  It's a fundamental process issue.
<Burgundavia> I agree
<ScottK> You can't develop something useful to the community in isolation from the community.
<Burgundavia> raise it at the next Tech Board
<ScottK> Burgundavia: There's really no point.  The will open source LP when/if Canonical wants to.  Ubuntu's use of proprietary tools is a significant negative in my book, but not one (yet) that outweighs Ubuntu's advantages.
<ScottK> Oops
<ScottK> The/They
<Burgundavia> ScottK: you can raise the issue of process and suggest some solutions, however
<ScottK> Burgundavia: The only real solution is to open up LP and they're very clear that's not in the cards.
<ScottK> As long as it's developed in a back room we'll just get told to ignore the man behind the curtain.
<Burgundavia> given the operating constraints, you can fix certain things
* Fujitsu hasn't dared to participate in a discussion like this recently.
<ScottK> Except we already have stuff like an official MOTU-LP liaison and he wasn't consulted.
* ScottK is never reluctant to open his mouth (I know I didn't need to tell you that).
<Fujitsu> I used to not be, then I got a lot of important people annoyed.
* Fujitsu engraves `WTF' into bug #119469
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119469 in firefox-launchpad-plugin "all of the previous bugs, plus malformed line 40" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119469
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Just mark it Triaged.  That'll take care of it.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, true.
<Fujitsu> And why is gutsy-changes still screwed? How'd they manage to break changelog-closes-bugs? {sync,backport}-source? Aren't they meant to have some tests?
<ScottK> Burgundavia: Given the operating constraints there's very little that can be done to fix things on this side of the interface.  LP is a black box we can't see into.  It's really up to them.  If I thought there was something I could do that would make a difference, I'd be glad to go to the tech board, I just don't see the point.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Trust them.  They know what they are doing (no need to open source this project yet).
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I think this is how a lot of people feel, but you're the only one who is particularly vocal about it at the moment. Good to see somebody has taken on my old task!
<ScottK> Burgundavia: Or to put it differently, if someone wants me to invest my time in making a proprietary program better, I have a consulting rate for that.
<joejaxx> ScottK: you do not think of Launchpad as a service?
<joejaxx> :P
<ScottK> joejaxx: No.  I think of it as a critical part of the toolchain of the Linux distribution I use.
<joejaxx> interesting
<ScottK> Building free software on a proprietary toolset is not a point of comfort for me.
<ScottK> It's why I use DaD instead of MoM for merges even though the later is more mature.
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: I believe LP should be Free. period
<ScottK> Personally, I've yet to see any arguments for keeping it proprietary that make sense to me.
<Burgundavia> Ubuntu is "just a service"
<Fujitsu> I'm sure most here know my opinion on the subject.
<ScottK> In that case, I should just quit working on making their service better.
<Flannel> ScottK: did you see the comment from sabdfl about his reasonings?
<Fujitsu> The problem is that Ubuntu has benefits that outweigh the downside (ie. non-free infrastructure). It's a really neat trap.
<ScottK> Flannel: I've seen comments that are going into the LP FAQ - probably the same.  They don't make sense to me.
<ScottK> +1 for what Fujitsu said.
<Flannel> ScottK: the ones about anti-balkanization?
<nixternal> alcohol and hacking do not mix!
<ScottK> Yep.  
<ScottK> to both of you.
<ScottK> nixternal: That doesn't help your MOTU application any.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Hahahah.
<Fujitsu> !nixternal
<ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<nixternal> well, where do I begin...Debian packaging talk, GPL talk, Ubuntu talk....and lots of home brewed and micro brewed beer..BarCamp is some good stuff
<Flannel> ScottK: what about the centralization argument doesn't make sense?
<ScottK> Flannel: If he's worried about lots of things called Launchpad running around, he can stop that with trademark.  I see no difference if an upstream that we link to runs Bugzilla or another isntance of LP.
<Burgundavia> Flannel: the argument is bullsh*t
<ScottK> isntance/instance
<Flannel> ScottK: He's not worried about thename, he's arguing that if you have LOTS of LPs, you lose the benefit of integration.
<Fujitsu> The argument is a little valid. They don't want anybody running Bugzilla or their own LP. They want everyone to use *their* LP.
<ScottK> Flannel: So.  If there is benifit in integration, people will run on Canonical's instance of LP.  If he's wrong, they won't.  No need to make it proprietary if the benifit is real.
<nixternal> gotta remember, Sourceforge is not proprietary/non-free now as well...so LP isn't alone which I find odd
<nixternal> s/not/now
<Fujitsu> Very true.
<Fujitsu> s/benifit/benefit/g
<Flannel> ScottK: his argument is that it needs to achive critical mass for the benefits to be apparent.  Beofre that point, people won't want to hassle with the centralization, even if in the long run it's more cost effective
<Fujitsu> He won't achieve critical mass with it non-free.
<Fujitsu> Not a chance.
<nixternal> code.google.com (Chris DiLoser) says the reason they created code.google.com is not to replace Sourceforge but to have a free system that is similar...yet Google never made it free
<ScottK> Flannel: As long as it's proprietary, there is a 0% chance of me hosting a project on it.
<nixternal> I was talking to Ben Sussman today about it
<ScottK> Flannel: Since I package my stuff for Ubuntu, I can see actual benifit to being in the same infrastructure and using the tools, but the proprietariness is to big a negative.
<Flannel> ScottK: I see where you're coming from.  I don't think I have an opinion on it personally.  I was just wondering what your POV was.
<Fujitsu> nixternal: Well, that's similar to LP, but Canonical isn't quite as evil.
<nixternal> "yet?"
<nixternal> ;)
<Fujitsu> That was implied.
<ScottK> Right.
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> well, all day I heard that "Ubuntu is going to sign a deal as well, but they will sugar coat it"
<ScottK> I've already decided that my business is to important to accept the business risk of using proprietary tools.
<nixternal> and I got bitchy with a few people who were making those statements while using "windows"
<nixternal> people bringing Microsoft products to an open source party/event...well they need to swim with the fishies :)
<nixternal> then again, they could get online, network manager was once again hosing me with gutsy
<ScottK> That's what you get for running Gutsy.
<nixternal> yup
* ScottK has two hard drives for the laptop.  One is always stable.
* Fujitsu runs Gutsy because the laptop isn't overly critical, and it's good practice to fix it if it breaks.
* ScottK still has Feisty on the development drive, but is about ready to dist-upgrade it.
* ScottK still runs Dapper on his desktop.
<Burgundavia> nixternal: where were you?
<ScottK> Burgundavia: Vista users group.
<nixternal> BarCamp Chicago
<imbrandon> i just run windows 3.11 and forget about it all
<nixternal> hahahaha
<nixternal> stop lying, you dos lover!
<Burgundavia> ahh, interesting
<Burgundavia> so people figure Ubuntu is going to sign a deal, eh?
<Burgundavia> I think, even if Mark wanted to, he cannot, due to the optics
<nixternal> most of them Google employees
<nixternal> which I called all but 1 idiots
<ScottK> optics?
<nixternal> Ben Sussman is cool, the rest are morons
<nixternal> I am like you guys use Ubuntu, call it Goobuntu or some garbage, make all kinds of changes, yet don't share them...
<imbrandon> nixternal, i've seen it, the only changes they make are artwork
<nixternal> I seen it tonight...quite more than artwork
<imbrandon> pre-dapper they had some ltsp kernel patches
<nixternal> Ben uses it on his IBM lappy
<imbrandon> then thats Ben's customizations, i have personaly b ooted to it from a pxe boot to my lappy at googleplex, the default boot is only artwork changes
<nixternal> it was what he had on a CD...he showed some cook SVN stuff him and a few others have done there as well
<nixternal> s/cook/cool
* ScottK thought is was Chicago slang.
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> Chicago homebrewed beer
<imbrandon> http://images.imbrandon.com/lolcats/lolcatsdotcomib5v9oe8urvsgmh0.jpg
<imbrandon> bwhahaha
<nixternal> hahah, that is great
<imbrandon> nix if it was on a CD its far from "official" goobuntu, goobuntu is ONLY pxeboot or install from pxeboot
<nixternal> 12 of 21 is better
<nixternal> ahhh, he was talking about pxeboot
<imbrandon> he probably just rolled a goobuntu branded custom cd, not hard but not what most of them run anyhow
<nixternal> he runs Kubuntu mainly, but was showing off some of the stuff Google Chicago is working on..the SVN stuff was the coolest
<imbrandon> :)
<Fujitsu> What did they do with it?
<Burgundavia> what sort of SVN stuff?
<nixternal> hell, the top 3 SVN devs all work Google Chicago now
* imbrandon goes back to rolling a pr0n-buntu
<imbrandon> lol j/k
<nixternal> imbrandon: just use PCLinuxOS :)
<imbrandon> hahah
<imbrandon> no way
<Fujitsu> No, just use warty.
<nixternal> dude, it is the perfect LivePr0nCD
<imbrandon> thats art not pr0n, i mean real pr0n
<nixternal> localized history stuff, some of the good things from other projects like Monotone, Mercurial, Git, Darcs and such
<nixternal> we have a picture of the SVN god with a Bazaar dev :)
<RAOF> What, so svn might not suck at merging sometime?
<nixternal> RAOF: exactly a point he talked about
<nixternal> he even said the best right now is Mercurial
<Fujitsu> Impossible. Sucky merging is an inherent SVN thing... it just wouldn't be SVN without it.
<nixternal> hehe, true, we wouldn't know what to do if it didn't suck
<nixternal> all these years of learning how to hack your way around the suckiness
<RAOF> I've tried to merge precisely one svn branch, and it was a nightmare
<nixternal> I got lucky once, with an SVN merge that is
<RAOF> Because I had foolishly moved files around, no knowing that SVN would chuck a screaming hissy fit.
<nixternal> oh ya
<nixternal> or even delete them with rm -rf and have it go "wft did it go"
<imbrandon> wtf did it go, classic
<RAOF> So, my svn merging is now done with bzr-svn, which works :)
<Fujitsu> bzr's merging it good.
<Fujitsu> Well, anything is good compared to Subversion.
<RAOF> Indeed.  Manually applying diffs is good, compared to svn.
<Fujitsu> That's what I do.
<RAOF> That's what I ended up doing, yeah.
* Fujitsu notes that the LP discussion died out.
<RAOF> So, on further inspection, I think the mplayer-use-compiz patch needs reworking before it is in any way acceptable to upstream.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Hard to have much of an argument when we all pretty much agree.
<Fujitsu> True.
<nixternal> Fujitsu: it seems to always die out, because we end up saying the same thing...for 2 years they have been planning on open sourcing it when it was "finished"
* ScottK doesn't expect it.
<Fujitsu> Right. And then we just wait. And wait.
<nixternal> only thing I have seen take 2+ years to finish was Windows
<Fujitsu> And wait.
<Fujitsu> nixternal: Heheh.
* ScottK just counts it as a cost of using Ubuntu.
* ScottK also hopes if there are any CC members present (cough Burgundavia) they are taking notes.
<nixternal> registering a project is easier in code.google.com and sourceforge than LP is...LP has a bunch of confusing mumbo jumbo
* Fujitsu somehow incites active opposition to LP.
<Fujitsu> Hah, the CC won't have any power over that.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: You didn't start it this time.
<nixternal> ScottK: I think Corey has hounded them enough on the aspect...you can guarantee that one!
<Burgundavia> wah?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: No, no one outside Canonical does, but I think it's important that sabdfl continue to hear that the community (at least us anyway) haven't rolled over and gotten happy with the situation.
<Burgundavia> I had an interesting argument with jono and Riched while in Sevilla
<Burgundavia> about 10 of us went out for dinner and for about half the meal, only the three of us were talking
<Fujitsu> I'm sure there are a few of Canonical people watching us in here.
<Fujitsu> s/ of//
<nixternal> I would have loved to have been there for that one..it seems the Canonical people have no problem defending the actions
<Fujitsu> Speaking of jono, I haven't seem him around much lately.
<nixternal> I just read his blog, said he is in California for FooCamp
<joejaxx> Hello All
<Burgundavia> I raised the issue of LP going away like bitkeeper did
<joejaxx> hello jussi01 
<nixternal> hehe, bitkeeper rocked
<Burgundavia> and was told to not worry and that I shoudl "just trust Mark":
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: How'd that go?
<Fujitsu> Gaaaaah.
<Fujitsu> Trusting Mark doesn't last for more than a couple of years.
<nixternal> funny thing though, everyone at the even tonight think Mark is the next great thing for open source and free software
<Fujitsu> He probably is.
<nixternal> s/even/event
<nixternal> the FSF guys even said that...the FSF guys said that RMS is just to extreme and has been preaching the same thing on a lot of dead ears for 20 years now
<jussi01> hi joejaxx
<AndyP> i've been wondering how canonical is going to make money from launchpad
<Burgundavia> I raised the issue that Mark does get bored
* LaserJock notes he missed some good LP ranting but is too lazy to read the backlog
<Burgundavia> and was "is there any sign of that?'
<Burgundavia> ?"
<Fujitsu> AndyP: Sell the service to the hordes of distributions that are clamouring to use it.
<Burgundavia> basically I was patronized by Jono and Riched and it pissed me off
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Aw...
<joejaxx> LaserJock: we should create a summarizer script for you :P
<AndyP> the plan seems to be: keep LP closed source -> get everyone using launchpad -> ??? -> profit!
<Fujitsu> Word's AutoSummarise!
<joejaxx> autmatically detects certain keywords
<Fujitsu> AndyP: Right. He's obviously a /. fan.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: :P
<Burgundavia> I think they are thinking of running LP ala Collab.net style
<Burgundavia> for internal dev teams
<ScottK> LaserJock: Is Bug #121636 on your MOTUs are really annoyed with this LP bug list?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121636 in malone "when a bug is marked as triaged it disappears" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121636
<LaserJock> ScottK: no
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Collab.net? I know not of it.
<Burgundavia> hosted svn basically
<ScottK> LaserJock: Please add it.  It makes Triaged mostly useless at this point.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: it is what the oOo project uses
<Burgundavia> read Michael Meeks for about how crap it is
<Fujitsu> ScottK: More than mostly!
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I just said mostly because of the cases where we WANT the bugs to disappear.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I know, I got rid of a bug using it ;-)
<Fujitsu> Heheh, like that one I mentioned earlier.
<ScottK> Exactly.
<Fujitsu> Won't Fix is convenient too.
<AndyP> i think i read somewhere that there was a plan to form a business model around the big-picture data that can be mined from LP, but i might be wrong
<Fujitsu> AndyP: I've never seen a reference to that, and I've looked hard.
<ScottK> AndyP: Dunno.  Don't care.  As long as it's a black proprietary box, I feel no responsiblity to do anything other than bitch and moan.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: haha :P
<Fujitsu> +1 ScottK
<LaserJock> I couldn't care less if it was opensourced
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: yes you do
<Burgundavia> crap woudl be fixed faster
<LaserJock> no it wouldn't
<Burgundavia> it would things like release management
<Burgundavia> would have, rather
<nixternal> ya, like 2.5 years ago a bug was created to add support for tracking berlios.de bugs, and ummmmm it is still confirmed/wishlist
<ScottK> LaserJock: Developments wouldn't get dumped on us out of no where.
<Burgundavia> although joey has done amazing work
<Fujitsu> nixternal: I suppose there are no projects that are in main that need it.
<nixternal> well, the bcm43xx garbage is
<Burgundavia> OSS is not a panacea, but managed correctly, it would LP a better place
<jussi01> wow, you guys really know how to gripe.... :P
<ScottK> LaserJock: I don't particularly care about the source myself, but if the development process were more open, we'd all be better off.
<joejaxx> jussi01: lol
<Fujitsu> jussi01: We're very experienced.
<nixternal> of course we do, we practice hard
<LaserJock> I've seen a whole lot of crappy OSS projects
<jussi01> hehe
<Burgundavia> jussi01: most of us have been doing this for at least a year, closing in on three for some of us
<nixternal> this is a once a week discussion almost now
<nixternal> 2 for me
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: crappy projects are caused by crappy management
<Burgundavia> pure and simple
<ScottK> LaserJock: Sure.  Not saying open source is a panacea, but that LP would be better than it is now.
<LaserJock> sure
<Burgundavia> LP had major issues until joey came along
<LaserJock> you don't know that though
<Fujitsu> LP has better management now that Joey has the wheel.
<jussi01> heheh, look like i walked in at the wrong time...
<ScottK> Fujitsu: If this is better management, I feel for you that've been around here a while.
<LaserJock> as you say, it is management, IMO, more than openness that's the problem
<Burgundavia> but management only solves part of the problem
<ScottK> LaserJock: But the community can help if the management is more open.
<LaserJock> it's *the* big problem for me
<Burgundavia> now development is at least more consistent
<LaserJock> ScottK: what community?
<LaserJock> who's going to jump on the LP train?
<Burgundavia> all teh bloody python lovers we have
<ScottK> LaserJock: Those of us interested in using it.
<nixternal> Burgundavia: hahahhaa
<Burgundavia> everybody who wants to fix it
<LaserJock> do you think they could?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: stupidity is not a good argument to us
<Burgundavia> use, rather
<ScottK> LaserJock: As an example, the idiotic idea to only let -devs set in progress lasted one day once it was in the light.
<LaserJock> I seriously wonder if there would be very many people interested in it
<Burgundavia> "your are all too stupid to work on our shiny app"
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: that's not what I'm saying
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: every single Ubuntu dev and user is, by the very definition, interested in LP development
<LaserJock> I'm saying that it being open doesn't mean all of a sudden everybody starts fixing bugs
<Fujitsu> If LP is open, more projects are likely to use it.
<Burgundavia> no, no it doesn't
<Fujitsu> By having more projects, there's a wider development community.
<LaserJock> I would do the same thing I'm doing now
<Burgundavia> if it is open, maybe we can get GNOME or Debian using it
<LaserJock> filing bugs
<Burgundavia> perhaps KDE
<ScottK> LaserJock: No, not necessarily fixing more bugs, but maybe LP devs stop doing stupid stuff because they don't understand the community.
<Burgundavia> none of them are going to use a closed source app to track bugs
<LaserJock> ScottK: I don't see how that would change with it being opensourced
<Burgundavia> http://wiki.python.org/moin/CallForTrackers
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: that's a fair point
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: That's a good page.
<LaserJock> I can see adoption being hurt by it being open sourced
<Burgundavia> one of the reasons python does not LP for a bug tracker is because IT IS CLOSED SOURCE
<Fujitsu> Oh.
<Fujitsu> That's a new version.
<LaserJock> sorry s/open/closed/
<ScottK> LaserJock: If it's open and the development is open, more of us will be able to see what they are planning and maybe save them the trouble of inflicting something stupidon us.
<Burgundavia> GNOME translators would love to use Rosetta, but it is closed source
<LaserJock> ScottK: I'm not sure that that is really the case
<Fujitsu> Rosetta seems to be great.
<LaserJock> we already can see the bugs, we at least have little snippets of the specs
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: We could see the bloody specs.
<Burgundavia> if you look at most of the people using LP, they are already existing Ubuntu devs or users
<Burgundavia> Jokosher, by example
<LaserJock> I agree that they should open up the wiki for at least sanatized versions
<LaserJock> and many within LP agree
<ScottK> LaserJock: Where's the spec that said they were going to make it so only -devs could mark in progress?
<LaserJock> ScottK: it's on the wiki
<Burgundavia> which wiki?
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu wiki
<ScottK> LaserJock: Where?
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugWorkflow
<Burgundavia> there are a million good reasons either way
<LaserJock> apparently that wiki page is slightly outdated, but it has what you're looking for
<Burgundavia> at the end of the day, the question that needs to be asked is: "Is Launchpad being closed source good for Ubuntu?"
<Fujitsu> And the answer is a resounding no.
<LaserJock> look, I think LP being opensourced would be a cool thing, no doubt
<LaserJock> but I'm not going to get all upset over it
<LaserJock> because at the end of the day, I'm not convinced it would change anything for me
<LaserJock> I think it would be good from a philosophical standpoint, "Ubuntu should be developed on an open source infrastructure"
<Fujitsu> I've seen people say they won't get involved with Ubuntu because of LP.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> and I see that point
<LaserJock> I *don't* see "If LP was open sourced then it would be so much better"
<Burgundavia> I think the process around its development would be better
<LaserJock> sure
<Burgundavia> which, in time, will produce a better app
<LaserJock> well, maybe
<ScottK> LaserJock: In the end, if Canonical believes in Open Source, then the default ought to be it's Free unless there is a strong reason not to and I have yet to see a sensible strong reason not to.
<Fujitsu> We'd have more developers. More people who actually matter could help with it.
<LaserJock> I agree to some degree
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I don't think you would
<joejaxx> has then been a spec to talk about this at a UDS
<joejaxx> ?
<nixternal> $$$$ is a strong reason if you are Canonical I am sure
<ScottK> It's pretty well established that open source development produces better software.
<LaserJock> I think it would be hard to gain as much developer power as what Canonical is pumping into it now
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: I don't think they'd allow it.
<ScottK> nixternal: I don't even see that.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: oh?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: oh come on
<Flannel> Well, if LP was open source, it would probably be navigatable again.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It's hard to say.
<LaserJock> Mark and several other Canonical people have talked about it before
<LaserJock> it's not a dirty little secret that they censor
<LaserJock> Flannel: I doubt it
<nixternal> ya, I listened in on some of the LP talks at UDS via voip
<ScottK> LaserJock: talked about what?
<LaserJock> LP being closed source and why it isn't
<ScottK> LaserJock: None of which makes much sense to me.  Maybe they get it and I don't.
<Flannel> LaserJock: Eh, it was usable before the rewrite.  Now it's just impossible for anyone to find anything unless they know where it is already.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: so they would not allow a UDS session on it? to discuss its current standing?
<Fujitsu> Particularly Soyuz navigation absolutely sucks.
<LaserJock> Flannel: and I don't think that would change if it was suddenly open sourced
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I don't see why they wouldn't
<LaserJock> geeze, it's not a big deal
<Fujitsu> What discussion is there? "We're not doing it in the foreseeable future. BoF dismissed."
<ScottK> LaserJock: It's not a big deal to YOU.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: no
<joejaxx> come on
<joejaxx> i doubt they would do that
<LaserJock> if the developer community is interested, then let's send a letter to Mark asking for an explanation
<joejaxx> it would be interesting to bring up all these things you all have said
<joejaxx> in here
<LaserJock> it's not a big deal, really
<ScottK> joejaxx: They would have slides and it would take longer, but it would amount to that.
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: True.
<joejaxx> particularly the python/gnome/kde
<joejaxx> and present it to them
<joejaxx> that is what i am talking about
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'm not really interested in a defense of proprietary infrastructure.  I want free software.  An explanation is really no help at all.
<LaserJock> fine
<LaserJock> but you can encourage Mark to timeline it or whatever you want
<Burgundavia> a timeline would be snazzy
<ScottK> LaserJock: From my perspective this last go round dumped a lot of cr@p on us and it would have been worse if we hadn't started screaming.  
<LaserJock> I'm just saying, address it if you want, you don't have to sit here complain all the time
<Fujitsu> Back to the discussion of about 10 months ago.
<joejaxx> i really think there should be a uds session about it if people really feel that strongly about it, present cases and facts and see what is said in response
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: I have raised it with Mark several times as well
<LaserJock> this is one of the most open communities I know, surely it's not that hard
<ScottK> LaserJock: If there were more community involvement, it'd have been better.  Since it's proprietary, it's up to them.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> this isn't Debian
<LaserJock> we have a corporate sponsor
<joejaxx> i doubt they would turn down a spec that 100 people are subscribed to :P
<LaserJock> gotta take the good with the bad
<Fujitsu> Their version of community discussion is a UDS BoF that isn't publicised.
<LaserJock> I say having full time developers is the good
<ScottK> LaserJock: Yes, take the good with the bad, but it doesn't mean we have to like it.
<LaserJock> not having complete control over development infrastructre is the bad
<LaserJock> ScottK: I'm not saying you have to
<LaserJock> but I think we have some constructive things we can do perhaps
<LaserJock> this last "status" thing was a storm in a teapot
<LaserJock> it really didn't need to be as big of a deal as it ended up being
<ScottK> LaserJock: As long as the LP methology is an oh by the way e-mail to devel-discuss, it's hard to know what to do.
<Fujitsu> It shows enormous flaws in LP's development process.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: +1
<Fujitsu> What ScottK said.
<Fujitsu> Brb
<LaserJock> well, geeze, we do that sort of stuff all the time
<LaserJock> granted on a smaller scale
<LaserJock> but "Oops, btw, I broke the kernel today"
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :P
<LaserJock> sometimes crap happens
<LaserJock> I agree that we need better communication
<ScottK> LaserJock: How often does it happen on a released Ubuntu version?
<ScottK> LaserJock: WE don't need better communication, they do.
<LaserJock> and I'll come right out and say it that I'm fairly disappointed that Revell hasn't been on top of these things
<LaserJock> but gosh, we've got lots of communication problems
<LaserJock> I guess I just don't let it bother me all that much
<LaserJock> I can see why people get upset
<ScottK> Sure, everyone has communication problems, but as long as LP is proprietary, the responsibility can only lie in one place.
<LaserJock> I'm fine with that
<LaserJock> you may not
<ScottK> LaserJock: What is the antecedant of 'that'
<LaserJock> I'm fine with it being their problem
<LaserJock> although I don't think your statement is strickly true
<Fujitsu> We break things in development releases (except for X.org in Dapper, but that was really bad).
<LaserJock> I've often talked with LP devs and they really wanted to know what their users (us) thought and needed
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: and they realize that this status thing was a "really bad"
<Fujitsu> They do? Good.
<LaserJock> and it wasn't that bad either
<ScottK> Yes, good.  First I've heard of it.
<LaserJock> they make all kinds of changes all the time
<ScottK> It was a lot less bad then it might have been because they didn't fully deploy it.
<LaserJock> it sucks documentation wise and they should have given us some heads-up time
<LaserJock> hmm
<Fujitsu> It was announced to a non-developer list of part of their userbase. The announcement was misleading, and the changes deserved a lot more warning.
<ScottK> And it didn't actually work correctly either (link translations and failing to include all open statuses in searches)
<ScottK> It appeared to have had very little testing.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: sure, heno was a little confused
<LaserJock> they are doing monthly rollouts, I doubt it gets all *that* much testing anyway
<Fujitsu> As heno's the one who should know about that stuff (other then Mr. Revell), that's even worse.
<ScottK> That's a problem.
<Fujitsu> They used to have weekly rollouts.
<Fujitsu> Nothing had broken too badly in a while.
<Fujitsu> Their review process is still similar, AFAIK.
<LaserJock> gosh, you guys act as if no other software ever has bugs or mishaps or bad features
<LaserJock> we deal with this stuff all the time
<LaserJock> just because it's proprietary doesn't mean we need to treat it all that differently
<ScottK> LaserJock: Yes.  Absolutely it does.
<LaserJock> especially since many of the devs come from an open source community
<LaserJock> ScottK: I think that's crap, but whatever
<ScottK> LaserJock: As long as it's proprietary, the community has no responsibility for it.
<Fujitsu> It's proprietary, the open source community depends on it, and we have to trust the proprietary devs.
<LaserJock> so what?
<LaserJock> honestly, geeze
<LaserJock> you guys have never had to rely on anythin proprietary in your lives?
<ScottK> It's a question of where the responsibility lies.
<LaserJock> so?
* joejaxx thinks that discussion would be better discussed at a UDS BoF
<LaserJock> I see problems, I file bugs, bug hopefully get fixed
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: That's a few months away yet.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: yes but i can still wish
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: ... or they sit around for a year or two.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: and we don't have bugs like that?
<LaserJock> I mean, I really don't see any difference here
<Fujitsu> With F/LOSS, you can scratch your own itch, so to speak.
<LaserJock> sure
<ScottK> LaserJock: WIth most apps, if I don't like the new features, I can run the old version.  Not so with LP.
<Fujitsu> That too.
<LaserJock> do you get to do that with Google?
<LaserJock> with Yahoo?
<LaserJock> with Amazon?
<Fujitsu> I don't want to be forced to run Vista the second it's released.
<LaserJock> it's a service guys
<Flannel> LaserJock: yes.  You simply don't shop at Amazon.
<LaserJock> we use them everyday
<joejaxx> not to disrupt the current discussion but does anyone know what the "later" mileston is?
<joejaxx> on lp?
<LaserJock> I think it is obsolete
<ScottK> No, but if Google get's things wrong enough, I can use Yahoo.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh ok
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Used to be for stuff that should be done before release, but not a milsetone in particular, AFAIK.
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> just wondering thanks
<joejaxx> :)
<LaserJock> I mean, I totally understand that opensourced LP would be better
<LaserJock> but I'm not going to get an ulcer over it not being
<ScottK> LaserJock: For some other distro, it's a service that distro has chosen to use.  For Ubuntu it's a critical part of our tool chain.
<LaserJock> and I *have* to trust Mark and Canonical enough to use it
<LaserJock> part of being an Ubuntu developer right now is dealing with issues with Canonical
<LaserJock> it's the nature of the beast
<ScottK> LaserJock: Sure.  I'm here now aren't I.
<Fujitsu> It's mostly manageable.
<Fujitsu> There are some conflicts, but it's pretty OK.
<LaserJock> so if we don't like it we can say so, and work towards getting a better situation
<ScottK> But as I said at the beginning, the proprietary toolset is a negative aspect of an overall positive picture.
<crimsun> do you mean "part of being an Ubuntu developer right now is accepting issues beyond your control"?
<LaserJock> I can see where people would think that
<ScottK> LaserJock: I just don't see what can be done on our end to make the situation better.
<LaserJock> I personally don't care, and that's justme
<AndyP> ScottK: write a better LP clone :)
<ScottK> Hi crimsun.  How'd househunting go?
<LaserJock> well, for one thing it doesn't help to just complain about it being closed source, therefor it sucks
<LaserJock> the LP devs really want to make LP better
<crimsun> ScottK: not bad, I've settled on Columbia given the N-S commute
<LaserJock> but they need actionable material
<LaserJock> I've been trying to work on that some
<ScottK> LaserJock: It doesn't suck because of the fact that it's closed source, it's just harder to make it better/more widely used because it is.
<joejaxx> well one thing is if this is a sprint at the next UDS
<LaserJock> ScottK: agreed
<joejaxx> i think our discussions will be alot more productive
<ScottK> crimsun: It's a nice area.  If you're headed into DC, it's about the best direction to head in from.
<LaserJock> I don't think a UDS BOF would be helpful at all
<LaserJock> I think it would be a disaster
<joejaxx> LaserJock: really?
<joejaxx> :(
<LaserJock> yes, really
<Fujitsu> UDS BoFs worked well for the status changes
* ScottK agreew w/ LaserJock
<ScottK> heh
<joejaxx> why? :\
<LaserJock> people would just yell at each other and nothing would get done
<LaserJock> this is a Canonical policy issue
<joejaxx> well people need to learn to act civil :P
<ScottK> joejaxx: Keep in mind the level of passion here and remember this is only one side of the discussion. 
<LaserJock> that has community consequences
<Fujitsu> I can see a lot of yelling and not much else, like LaserJock.
<ScottK> It would get load.
<joejaxx> true :\
<LaserJock> what we would need is a unified community statement
<LaserJock> heck, MOTU could go on strike or something if it truely came to it
<LaserJock> but us grumbling amongst each other does nothing much to help the situation, IMO
<Fujitsu> Nyeh, Canonical doesn't need us that much.
<ScottK> AndyP: I don't feel a need to replace LP (now), but I would like it to support our processes rather than attempt to drive them.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: yes they do
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> if universe halted there would be a problem
<joejaxx> universe/multiverse*
<AndyP> ScottK: yeah, bit drastic isn't it... i was half joking 
<LaserJock> ScottK: honestly though, the status stuff was oiginally designed to do that
<crimsun> joejaxx: only to an extent.  There are plenty of people who will compile their own debs and post URLs to them.
<joejaxx> crimsun: ah that is true
<LaserJock> the issue is not so much specific to LP though
<joejaxx> but it has been there for quite some while
<Flannel> LaserJock: I hardly think a strike is appropriate.  You hurt the users more than anything else.  Once theyre gone (even if the strike only lasts a day) the fallout will remain.
<joejaxx> so it is a convenience now
<ScottK> LaserJock: I believer that was the goal, just not how it was going to end up.
<crimsun> Ubuntu as a distro most definitely does not need MOTU.
<crimsun> it helps immensely to have diligent MOTU, but it's not a matter of life or death.
<LaserJock> we (the volunteer community) have a lot of interfaces with Canonical and at those interfaces friction can happen
<joejaxx> crimsun: because most of the stuff is in main (ie maintained by u-c-d) ?
<Fujitsu> The main stuff that users use is, unsurprisingly, in main.
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> communication is a key aspect here
<LaserJock> Canonical could really use better communication with the volunteer community
<Fujitsu> Ubuntu would operate without universe, and could even just grab stuff unmodified from Debian. MOTU aren't really necessary in the scheme of things.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<Fujitsu> They definitely could.
<Fujitsu> Hi DarkSun88. Welcome to the warzone.
<LaserJock> Canonical is probably one of the better Linux companies around, but it could still use a lot more
<DarkSun88> Fujitsu: :D
<LaserJock> The thing with this spec is, the LP devs did discuss it with the community
<LaserJock> in a BOF in Sevilla
<LaserJock> so for them they got the "user" feedback they needed to procede
<Fujitsu> That wasn't publicised.
<LaserJock> that's an issue
<Fujitsu> I only discovered it when trawling through Malone specs a week ago.
<LaserJock> I feel like we do a bad job of giving out the results of the UDSs
<Fujitsu> bug-workflow doesn't to me say "let's rewrite all the statuses and permissions!"
<Fujitsu> So I didn't think much of it until I read it recently.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but lots of things are done that way presently
<ScottK> As I understand it, they had a discussion of a PART of the changes, at UDS, not all of them.
<crimsun> UDS specifically aren't for the community; they're for Canonical employees paid to work on Ubuntu.
<LaserJock> I don't know a 10th of what's going on after a UDS
<LaserJock> in fact, as I said earlier, I talked with kiko, BjornT, and mdz about statuses earlier in the week
<LaserJock> and I got blindsided with these changes
<LaserJock> so obviously it didn't get out properly
<Fujitsu> Not good.
<LaserJock> but I think that's more of a communication issue, rather than "LP is closed source so it's evil"
<LaserJock> I honestly think we can get much further by completely avoiding the proprietary issue
<AndyP> openness and communication are linked quite strongly
* elkbuntu would love to see the alternative with 20 LP's trying to be synched
<LaserJock> because I feel that that isn't *the* issue
<Fujitsu> That part is due to communication, but the whole bug status thing would have been avoided if their development process was more open.
<LaserJock> *the* issue is a lack of communication, which can happen anywhere
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu: Right, that's one problem.
<poningru> where is jono
<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, and one that would add to the communication barriers
<poningru> been reading scroll back
<elkbuntu> poningru, probably on a plane somewhere
<ScottK> LaserJock: I agree that communication is the issue, not (primarily) the close nature of it, but the fact that it's closed put the onus on them to do all the communicating.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: LPs development process is about as open as Ubuntu's, roughly
<poningru> def needs jono in here to answer these questions
<LaserJock> ScottK: no it doesn't
<ScottK> elkbuntu: Why does it matter if the upstream bug tracker is another LP or a bugzilla?
<LaserJock> ScottK: it makes it more difficult, for sure
<Fujitsu> jono is the Ubuntu community manager. I think this is more Matt Revell's domain.
<ScottK> LaserJock: It's either a community project or it's not.
<poningru> Fujitsu: the reason being I think this is more a lack of communication between community and canonical
<Fujitsu> ScottK: It does matter, in that LP could probably be taught to communicate with another LP very easily :P
<LaserJock> ScottK: I don't think it matters so much
<elkbuntu> ScottK, it's already a challenge keeping them all in touch, without complicating it even further
<poningru> Fujitsu: and I see this problem not only in the motu||LP devel communication
<poningru> I also see it in marketing
<LaserJock> I think it's hard to really tell what is a "community project" and what isn't
<poningru> where we have no fracking idea who the marketing person is at canonical
<LaserJock> you can see LP bugs
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Right, so opening up LP and spreading them would make things better than a monolithic proprietary LP that others won't use.
<LaserJock> you can see LP specs (there should be enough to get an idea of what's going on)
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Right. They can communicate, and the world lives in peace and harmony forever. Aw.
<crimsun> LaserJock: what's difficult?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: A lot of them have a description of one line.
<poningru> anyway Burgundavia going to sleep got a bit done as far as thursday goes will upload it tomorrow
<LaserJock> crimsun: communication to a proprietary app development team
<poningru> nn
<Fujitsu> poningru: Night.
<ScottK> LaserJock: Look at the fraction of Ubuntu core-devs that are not Canonical employees and then do the same caluculation for LP.  I think you'll find it very different.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: they *should* have enough to get an idea
<LaserJock> ScottK: but what does that matter?
<LaserJock> I mean, what does that prove
<ScottK> You said LP development and Ubuntu development were equally open.
<LaserJock> roughly
<ScottK> They aren't.  LP development is limited to Canonical devs.
<ScottK> OK roughly.
<LaserJock> and core Ubuntu development is roughly limited to Canonical
<Fujitsu> I know LP had one community dev for a short period a long time ago.
<LaserJock> they define priorities
<LaserJock> they pay the key people and tell them what to work on
<LaserJock> they do a lot of stuff behind our backs
<ScottK> Right, but they still can't tell you what to work on.
<Fujitsu> Whereas they do with LP. We can't work on anything.
<LaserJock> well, LP devs aren't doing that either
<ScottK> If you want to make package X do Y and upload it, it's there.  
<LaserJock> there isn't anything to work on ;-)
<ScottK> Yes, because it's closed source
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, only to a certain extent
<ScottK> Agreed.
<LaserJock> the archive admins are Canonical
* jussi01 sighs...
<Fujitsu> That's mostly because LP is deficient.
<LaserJock> they *could* stop volunteer devs if they wanted to
<Fujitsu> There's no UI.
<ScottK> Sure.  They've got the ultimate veto power.
<LaserJock> anyway, this is a little sidebar
<ScottK> OK.
<LaserJock> my point was that Ubuntu isn't completely open either
<ScottK> Sure.  What is.
<LaserJock> it's a part of having a distro that is sponsored by a company
<ScottK> Even Debian isn't completely open.  It just has it's closed aspects worked a different way.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<crimsun> what I'm reading is that LP changes could have been better disclosed to its potential clients.
<LaserJock> I'd love to see us use a free and open source infrastrucure tool
<LaserJock> crimsun: exactly
<LaserJock> and tbh, I'm not convinced the "big idea" of LP is going to work
<ScottK> And they could have been less brain dead too (the changes).
<LaserJock> but I don't control what we use and I like LP just fine and I think the LP devs do a good job
<LaserJock> so even though I'm not particularly fond of the way LP is developed some days, I work *with* LP devs to make it better
<LaserJock> because I don't think it's just going to "go away"
<ScottK> LP is generally fine these days (although personally I don't particularly like the new UI).  I just wish they wouldn't do stuff that makes it worse.
<LaserJock> with something like 1/2 to 2/3 of his company into LP I can't imagine Mark will just let it go
<ScottK> I wouldn't expect them to let it go.
<LaserJock> ScottK: sure, and much of that can be corrected
<ScottK> LaserJock: Yes, but why are we doing that after the fact.  
<LaserJock> some things are tough to change because of the way it's written
<LaserJock> ScottK: cause they goofed, they didn't test enough, they didn't get enough user feedback
<LaserJock> stuff that happens to us all the time
<LaserJock> think of all the silly SRUs we have to do
<ScottK> I'd say that they got all the user feedback they asked for.
<LaserJock> well, they though they had enough
<LaserJock> they got, I think, several of the big players in Ubuntu to be ok with their changes
<ScottK> Or at least the fraction of the changes they discussed.
<AndyP> they should encourage user feedback at every stage... as you said, that wiki page went out of date (why?)
<LaserJock> because it changed at the Sevilla BOF I think
<LaserJock> or something roughly like that
<ScottK> LaserJock: My understanding from someone who was there was that not all of the proposed changes (the limits on status changes in particular) were discussed at UDS.
<LaserJock> that's possible
<LaserJock> often times they don't think it's going to be a big deal and then it is
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I have talked to someone who said similar.
<LaserJock> stuff like this happens
<LaserJock> I think we *can* help them do better
<ScottK> It seems disingenuous to me to discuss part of a spec at UDS and then respond to complaints about the stuff not discussed with "But we discussed the spec at UDS:.
<LaserJock> well, there's a lot more too it
<LaserJock> LP devs see distro employees as just as good as asking us
<LaserJock> they don't always get a proper sampling of feedback
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'm sure there is, but this is where it being proprietary hurts again.  As long as it's a proprietary app, my give a darn factor for how hard it is for them is very low.
<ScottK> By deciding to make LP proprietary, Canonical has really made it their problem.
<LaserJock> I guess
<LaserJock> I've talked to these guys
<LaserJock> and know how much they are interested in helping us
<elkbuntu> this discussion isnt really going to solve anything...
<LaserJock> obviously, LP being proprietary makes it harder
<LaserJock> but I guess Mark has weighed the pros and cons
<joejaxx> hello elkbuntu :)
<LaserJock> and decided that for now at least it remains unreleased
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: I think it's useful
<ScottK> elkbuntu: I agree, but LaserJock is the MOTU rep to LP, so I think it's important for him to be stuffed full of the community opinion on this.
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I've talked to kiko once about the status thing already
<ScottK> LaserJock: Useful yes, but for who?  It doesn't help me any.
<ScottK> and?
<LaserJock> well, I don't think he was all that happy about it
<ScottK> Who is kiko?
<Fujitsu> One of the LP bergods.
<elkbuntu> ScottK, in terms of it's probably better with more LP people in the discussion
<Fujitsu> Almost on top, I think.
<LaserJock> Christian Reis
<ScottK> Henrick (who was fronting the mailing list discussion) seemed unable to really get that we had people who were devs that fixed bugs.
<ScottK> LaserJock: Doesn't help me any.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Thanks.
<LaserJock> ScottK: as Fujitsu said, one of the top admins in the LP world
<Fujitsu> ScottK: weren't devs, you mean? I got that too.
<LaserJock> kiko is my primarly technical contact
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Yes.  Weren't devs.
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure how SteveA relates to him.
<LaserJock> I think they're kinda at the same level
<LaserJock> but oversee different aspects perhaps
<LaserJock> or SteveA might be his immediate boss, I'm not sure
<LaserJock> I'd love to see an organizational chart
<Fujitsu> Anyhow, kiko is very very close to the top of all things LP.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, it'd be interesting.
<LaserJock> kiko is my primary LP technical contact
<ScottK> OK.  What kind of not happy?
<LaserJock> he *came* to me asking for a MOTU liason
<joejaxx> how many people work on LP?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: roughly 50 I think
<Fujitsu> 35
<ScottK> LaserJock: I guess the kindest thing I can say is how to use the liaison is still a work in progress then.
<Fujitsu> (developers, that is)
<AndyP> https://launchpad.net/~launchpad/+members
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: right
<joejaxx> AndyP: ah good thinking i never thought about that
<Fujitsu> That was my reference, AndyP.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I agree
<LaserJock> there's a lot that goes one though
<LaserJock> I honestly feel like I at least should have been given a heads up
<LaserJock> to pass on to MOTU
<ScottK> Alternatively, it's all just window dressing because they are going to do what they are going to to.
<LaserJock> especially since I talked with the LP devs about the statuses at Sevilla
<LaserJock> I doubt it
<ScottK> Would you ask them to bump the Triaged bugs disappear bug to Critical.
<LaserJock> I just got an email from kiko asking me to use the motu tag more
<ScottK> LaserJock: I doubt it too, but at this point either theory fits the data.
<Fujitsu> That should be trivial to fix, and Triaged is useless without it.
<LaserJock> right now I've got about 8 bugs that I've asked to get fixed that have been
<Fujitsu> Afternoon, Hobbsee.
<LaserJock> it's sometimes slow work, no doubt
<LaserJock> but they *do* work on them
<AndyP> well, presumably they only work 9-5 on weekdays :)
<LaserJock> heh, they work a fair amount
<LaserJock> I think they do more than 40hrs/week
<LaserJock> in general
<LaserJock> from what I can see, Rosetta is taking a lot of resources
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu 
<crimsun> well, I always give them the benefit of the doubt; development is a painstaking problem, and I'm on both ends
<crimsun> clients nearly always have a different idea of "critical" from developers
<ScottK> Hello Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi ScottK, crimsun, LaserJock, AndyP 
<crimsun> hi Hobbsee 
<AndyP> hello Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
<crimsun> (plus I'm not an employee, nor have I purchased a support contract, so I'm a nobody.  I just don't bother.)
<LaserJock> look, I'll try to talk to kiko and perhaps joey and matthew revell this next week
<AndyP> here's an idea... get LP devs to do some MOTU work or bug triage for a training week :)
<LaserJock> and see if we can hash out some communication and SOS plans
<AndyP> put them in our shoes
<ScottK> Hobbsee: You've been missing all the fun.  We've been on a collective LP rant for over 3 hours now.
<Fujitsu> This is the longest one to date, I think.
<LaserJock> AndyP: and we get to develop LP for a week? :-)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: oh woot.  i need to file some critical bugs on it, too
<Fujitsu> Makes for a fun afternoon.
<ScottK> LP Bug #1 - Launchpad not open source.
<AndyP> LaserJock: no, i'll stick with ubuntu stuff i think, much more fun
<LaserJock> so here's my ideas, see if you guys agree:
<ScottK> OK
<Hobbsee> oh right, it got filed.  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121636
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121636 in malone "when a bug is marked as triaged it disappears" [High,Confirmed]  
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ah yes, that one.
<Fujitsu> Nice job on their part to manage to stuff that up.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I already asked LaserJock to add it to his MOTU really annoyed list.
<Hobbsee> i marked a bug as critical and triaged - made me go "so, uh, where on earth is that bug i just marked as critical, for herd 2?"
<LaserJock> 1. We need an SOS plan. That is to say, if they do something or something critical happens we (MOTU) need a way to get a fix ASAP
<calc> i'm pretty sure disappearing triaged bugs issue will be fixed pretty fast ;)
<ScottK> calc: But you work for Canonical, so you'd say that.
<Fujitsu> calc: It's waiting for the next rollout.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Exactly what I thought too.
<Fujitsu> So, it's a month away.
<LaserJock> 2. We need to know relevent LP changes at least a week? before a rollout
<calc> ScottK: that kind of bug affects everyone including employees though
<calc> Fujitsu: what?
<LaserJock> 3. Have a number of LP beta-testers that can test MOTU-critical activites before rollout
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i'm not sure that canonical has a blanket 'you must say only positive things about canonical' rule
<calc> Fujitsu: they don't rollout faster when they break critical stuff?
<Fujitsu> calc: Unless it's Critical, it's not a candidate for cherrypicking.
<Fujitsu> It's obviously not important enough.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I was actually kidding.  He's new enough not to have been fully brainwashed yet.
<calc> Fujitsu: ah ok apparently this bug is already critical though
<Hobbsee> mmm...brainwashing.
<calc> Fujitsu: oh nm its high
<Hobbsee> ScottK: where'd you get your bitterness from?
* calc reads the bug report
<AndyP> it's not critical, it's "High"
<ScottK> 3+ hours of whining about LP
<Fujitsu> AndyP: Exactly.
<ScottK> That and it's almost 3AM here.  I have no idea why I didn't just go to bed.
<LaserJock> so what do people think about my points?
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: being that ubuntu isnt the only group in launchpad, i'm not sure they care terribly much
<crimsun> (3) needs a clearly delineated set of "activities" with precise test cases
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Point 3 was done this time. Staging was accessible to everyone... for about 24 hours before the change entered production.
<ScottK> LaserJock: I think 2 and 3 go together.  If there were MOTUs involved in testing, they could seek community opinions if stuff seemed odd to them.
<LaserJock> well, I split them as in
<LaserJock> we get a list of LP changes
<LaserJock> then we have a number of MOTUs that can go through and test
<LaserJock> I guess I'm thinking like doing Release Candidate .iso testing
<crimsun> I would strongly advise against that approach
<LaserJock> ok :-)
<ScottK> They key is getting the list early enough so that if we come back and say, "OMG, no - that will kill us", they don't say, "Sorry, too late."
<LaserJock> well, we do have the milestones
<LaserJock> now
<Fujitsu> crimsun: What issues do you see?
<crimsun> instead, we should delineate our critical use cases detailing what our typical procedure is and what the expected result is
* calc seconded Hobbsee's request
<Hobbsee> calc: which request, sorry?
<calc> Hobbsee: to get that stupid LP bug fixed ASAP ;)
<LaserJock> crimsun: so like on a wiki page or something that they can use?
<crimsun> we definitely do not want LP rollout blocking on MOTU
<Hobbsee> ah right
<crimsun> LaserJock: yes
<Hobbsee> calc: it's blocking ubuntu-release
<Hobbsee> so, as far as i'm concerned, it's critical.
<Hobbsee> maybe i'm biased, as i'm part of ubuntu-release
<LaserJock> well, I wasn't really seeing it as blocking them
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It's not blocking them. It's just making their job easier :P
<LaserJock> but giving them some time to fix critical stuff before rollout
<calc> Hobbsee: well i think ubuntu is a high enough customer of LP to get something like that fixed quickly if it blocks ubuntu for stuff... but we'll see
<crimsun> LaserJock: if we can add to the regression suite, it's much better than having to ping-pong us
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: where them == ubuntu-release?  sure, but it's not actually getting the bugs fixed, it's losing them.
<Hobbsee> calc: i would think so.  i only noticed it last night when doing some RMing
<LaserJock> crimsun: good point
<calc> luckily i haven't triaged any OOo bugs in the past couple days
<calc> so the tag wasn't there to cause me problems
<LaserJock> crimsun: I'm not sure what all we'd give them but it sounds reasonable
* calc leaving for real now
<crimsun> well, our hangup seems to be sponsoring, so we outline our typical sponsorship protocol
<LaserJock> yeah
<crimsun> a secondary one is SRU, but that could be tied to main as well
<LaserJock> sometimes when I've talked with LP devs about how we often us LP they are a bit surprised
<LaserJock> they should really know what our typical workflow is
<LaserJock> how we are using LP
<crimsun> like I said, most of us are just peons.  It's you high exposure deity folk that they see.
<LaserJock> I've tried to do a little informally
<Fujitsu> It's the distro team that they see.
<LaserJock> crimsun: we're all peons ;-)
<crimsun> Fujitsu: yes, the "paying clients" of sorts.
<LaserJock> well
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they do listen to non-canonical people.  sometimes.
<Hobbsee> at least some people within canonical do
<LaserJock> I think they are also fairly interested in MOTU as well
<Hobbsee> but you have to be careful in what you say :P
<LaserJock> because I think MOTU are probably closer to what their real clients would be
<LaserJock> well, Joey gets them using the milestones better I think it will help
<LaserJock> I just checked the 1.1.6 milestone and I don't see anything about the status thing
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It's the second of the two specs.
<LaserJock> hmm?
<LaserJock> where are you looking?
<LaserJock> oh freaking heck
<Fujitsu> On malone.
<LaserJock> they have the specs split up by product/project
<Fujitsu> There's no unified LP project milestone page.
<LaserJock> s/specs/milestones/
<Fujitsu> It makes sense.
<LaserJock> I was looking only at the Launchpad milestone
<Fujitsu> But the launchpad-project project group should really list them all.
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> that's what it does for bugs
<Fujitsu> I guess that would make too much sense, though.
<LaserJock> so we got 1 good spec and 1 not-so-good spec out of malone
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<LaserJock> I *was* around for the MOTU permissions spec
<LaserJock> s/spec/BOF?
<Fujitsu> The first was very quick in the implementation. It only took like 2 months from when it was proposed a couple of days before UDS. I was surprised.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I did file bugs with the Postfix changes you uploaded yesterday with Debian today.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: cool
<LaserJock> btw, I've got 15 "motu" bugs in LP right now
<LaserJock> I did have like 4 or 5, so hopefully they'll keep busy
<LaserJock> I've got to get to bed, so let me wrap up a little here
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: who will you poke over them?
<Fujitsu> Well, it seems to have died out after about 3.5 hours. Not a bad effort.
<Fujitsu> Night, LaserJock.
<ScottK> Good night LaserJock
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: "motu" is an official LP dev tag, kiko "appoints" resources and prioritizes them for me
<LaserJock> I think the discussion is useful
* ScottK should get to bed too.  LaserJock is two hours west of me and it's late for him.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: right.  so kiko
<LaserJock> LP *is* proprietary and so we do need to take any advantage they offer us to move our priorities along
<LaserJock> I can't opensource it
<LaserJock> I'd love to see progress there, but for now I'm not worrying about it so much
<ScottK> Understand.  It just limits what we can do.
<LaserJock> what I *can* do is pass along to LP devs our need for better communication
<LaserJock> ScottK: agreed
<LaserJock> and try to work on getting us the best situation we can
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: The verb is affect, not effect!
<crimsun> ok, so to accomplish that, we should draw up aforementioned protocol, no?
<LaserJock> so what I'm getting from this status mess is that we/me need a way to SOS LP
<crimsun> (sponsorship, SRU among them)
<Fujitsu> If we're going to get anywhere, we should.
<LaserJock> and to give them realistic example workflows, etc. as crimsun has said
<LaserJock> give them a list of things we have to have working to do our work
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i often get the two confused, as they both apply in different situations
<LaserJock> one thing I'm interested in is if I could mark that "Triaged" bug as Critical
<LaserJock> even if they downgrade it it would be interesting ;-)
<ScottK> Go for it.
<LaserJock> I'm tempted
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: And mark it as Triaged, as it has enough info to be fixed.
<LaserJock> but I don't want to piss anybody off just now
<ScottK> What're they going to do, cut your pay?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: lol
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Are you actually able to change the importance?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I belive so
<ScottK> Everyone say it together... Go LaserJock
<LaserJock> I could move it to Critical and then back to High to give them a little ping
<Fujitsu> That might work.
<ScottK> Just mark it critical and leave it.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: kiko will eat him.
<ScottK> Why, it's data loss and it's impacting Tribe 2 release.  I'd say it qualifies.
<Fujitsu> kiko is the only one allowed to appoint bugs for cherrypicking.
<Hobbsee> there are workarounds, of course
<Hobbsee> if anyone's got serious wishes to work on LP, they can probably get access to the code, btw.
<Fujitsu> Workarounds are the LP way.
<Hobbsee> if they're known within the community, etc.
<Hobbsee> (under a NDA)
<Fujitsu> Yay, NDAs.
<Hobbsee> well, yeah.
* ScottK only does NDAs for stuff I'm getting paid for.
<AndyP> NDAs are very chic, even kernel driver devs are wearing them these days
<Fujitsu> I have a number for different companies for work, but they all have good reasons to keep their data secret.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i'd imagine the wiki page was written by kiko, pre-sevilla.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: where he found out that the workflow was different to what he thought
<crimsun> f login --save-after-login
<crimsun> argh
<Fujitsu> I agree with crimsun.
<ScottK> It's easy enough to see who worked on it. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugWorkflow?action=info
<LaserJock> lol, I did it ;-)
<AndyP> :)
<LaserJock> ok, there you guys go
<LaserJock> if my head rolls, it's all your fault ;-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: If they didn't want you to push that button, they shouldn't have given you the power.
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure how many of them know I have it ;-)
<LaserJock> I don't want to ruin a good thing, hehe
* ScottK watches an big empty space open up around LaserJock.
<LaserJock> I *was* getting some private emails, but we got that worked out
* ScottK is out of steam and going to bed.
<LaserJock> private bugmails that is
* Fujitsu watches the strike team being dispatched to LaserJock's.
<ScottK> Good night everyone.  It's been an interesting evening.
<Fujitsu> Night, ScottK.
<LaserJock> I'm out too
<LaserJock> thanks ScottK and Fujitsu 
<LaserJock> and crimsun and everybody else
<LaserJock> it's been fruitful
<ScottK> No problem.
<AndyP> g'night ScottK and LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hopefully I can get something done this next week
<Fujitsu> Night LaserJock
<Fujitsu> It has been.
<ScottK> Being persistent and argumentative are two of my strong points.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you werent supposed to admit to that :P
<Hobbsee> night LaserJock 
<AndyP> well i'm glad that wasn't brought up at a motu meeting, the minutes would have been huge
<Fujitsu> AndyP: Heheh.
<Fujitsu> Close to 4 hours.
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> still not sure how much was acheieved, without matt revell here.
<Fujitsu> It would have been nice to have him and perhaps kiko here.
<Hobbsee> true.  but it's sunday
<Fujitsu> Well, yes.
<TheMuso> What have I just missed/
<Fujitsu> Over 1000 lines of LP ranting.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: a long rant about launchpad
<jussi01> lol
<RAOF> Over a breathtaking 4 hour stint :)
<jussi01> long? dont you mean ginormous?
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Ok, sounds like I haven't missed much then.
<jussi01> hehe
<RAOF> Surely this is the perfect time to whip out "gargantuan" :)
<jussi01> lol RAOF
<TheMuso> haha
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: It there was a bit of useful stuff in there. Not enough to be worth going through the logs, though.
<Fujitsu> Where'd that `It' come from?
* RAOF picks up the box of articles he left lying around
* Fujitsu has been using compiz all day. It's rather pretty.
<RAOF> It is, isn't it.
<RAOF> The big question is: do you also find it useful?
<crimsun> Screen 0: not direct rendering capable.
<crimsun> no.  I don't find it useful.
<Fujitsu> The translucency changing can be, if you want to check something behind.
<Fujitsu> The writing on the screen in fire... well, I'm sure I don't need to go over the reasons for that being useful.
<RAOF> Heh.
<AndyP> the marketing folks find it very useful
<RAOF> I'm learning to love "close windows in scale with RMB"
<Fujitsu> I can't seem to get that working.
<RAOF> AndyP: Yeah, I can imagine.  It is extremely shiny
<RAOF> Fujitsu: It's the "scale addons" plugin, it might not be enabled by default?
* TheMuso looks forward to compiz powering good screen magnification for accessibility.
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Noted, but I have that turned on.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: It already does that. Super+scroll works well.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Well better integration with accessibility technologies
<RAOF> Fujitsu: Oh, sorry, it's middle-mouse-button to close windows in scale.  RMB should zoom them to the centre.
<RAOF> If neither of these work, bug amaranth :)
* Fujitsu graffitis his screen with fire.
* AndyP wonders if anyone's done a compiz-esque version of xpenguins yet
* RAOF wonders what xpenguins does.
<AndyP> would be funny to have 3D penguins waddling all over your cube
<TheMuso> IMO compiz by default is a bad idea. Waste of resources.
<RAOF> What resources?
<RAOF> Developer resources?
<Treenaks> the scarce gpu resources!
<TheMuso> graphics/memory resources?
<AndyP> RAOF: basically it animates penguins floating down and landing on your windows and waddling around... pure gimmick
<Treenaks> wait..
<crimsun> Treenaks: do either model=3stack or model=5stack work?
<jussi01> !info xpenguins
<ubotu> xpenguins: little penguins walk on your windows. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.2-4 (feisty), package size 218 kB, installed size 1316 kB
<Treenaks> crimsun: for what?
<crimsun> Treenaks: for said laptop.  I've been asked to query you regarding that change.
<crimsun> (audio)
<Treenaks> crimsun: Oh you mean the intel-hda thing?
<crimsun> yes.
<RAOF> TheMuso: But the graphics resources are currently going to waste almost all the time :)
<Treenaks> that's not a laptop :)
<crimsun> Treenaks: ok, but the question remains.
<RAOF> Like RAM, it's only a waste if you don't use it :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: What about keeping power usage down?
<crimsun> precisely.
<crimsun> I disable DRI according to linuxpowertop.org's recommendations.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Ok, that is an issue.
<RAOF> However, I personally don't see much of a difference in power consumption metacity/compiz
<Treenaks> crimsun: 3stack works
<crimsun> Treenaks: and the latter (5stack)?
<Treenaks> crimsun: so does 5stack
<crimsun> ok, do you have a spdif?
<Treenaks> no
<crimsun> what's your physical jack layout?
<Treenaks> crimsun: a stereo jack + mic jack on the front panel.. and some stuff at the back panel
<Treenaks> crimsun: (line out/line in/mic I think, switchable to surround output)
<crimsun> ok, 3stack
<Treenaks> (maybe an extra jack on the back panel for LFE or Center, but I can't see the machine atm)
<crimsun> argh
<crimsun> ok, please let me know when you can see it.
<Treenaks> OK, that'll be tomorrow then, sorry
<crimsun> np
<Treenaks> crimsun: I've found the user's manual PDF at dell.com
<Treenaks> crimsun: front panel: headphone/mic; back panel: 5 sound connectors
<DktrKranz> could you please have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5709?
<crimsun> Treenaks: ok, then 5stack.  I'll fix it upstream, thanks.
* TheMuso just looked in the desktop effects preferences pain, and only saw two options. I thought compiz could do more.
<Treenaks> crimsun: (this is a Dell Dimension 9150, for future reference)
<RAOF> TheMuso: It can.  You're after "compizconfig-settings-manager", I believe
<crimsun> Treenaks: ok.  (Model's unimportant but SSID is important.)
<RAOF> TheMuso: If you run it, you'll see why it's not the default interface :)
<Treenaks> crimsun: where do I find that? :)
<crimsun> Treenaks: lspci -nv|grep 0403 -A1
<TheMuso> RAOF: Right.
<Treenaks> 00:1b.0 0403: 8086:27d8 (rev 01) Subsystem: 1028:01d1
<crimsun> right, 0x102801d1
<Treenaks> RAOF: ccsm "crashes" (apport pops up; program continues to run in "broken" state) all the time for me, and can't set half of the settings
<RAOF> Treenaks: Ah, yes.  Fixed in git.
<Treenaks> great :)
<RAOF> (In case anyone wonders, it's very important to actually maintain references to your objects if you want them to hang around)
<Treenaks> RAOF: that, or strangle the garbage collector ;)
<TheMuso> So does anybody know how the compiz/beryl merge is going?
<RAOF> It's done.
<TheMuso> Wow that was quick.
<RAOF> And has been done for ages, apart from stupid politics.
<Treenaks> what's it called now? :)
<TheMuso> Whats the name of it now?
<AndyP> compiz fusion
<AndyP> bit of a blah name
<TheMuso> meh
* RAOF was hanging out for just plain "compiz", but "fusion" will do.
<RAOF> At least it's not "coral"
<Treenaks> Berpiz
<AndyP> with all the distros calling it desktop effects, i would've thought they'd go somewhere like DFX
<RAOF> You don't know that particular community, obviously :)
<AndyP> i've never been all that interested, mainly because my graphics hardware sucks... or drivers suck :)
<Treenaks> I finally "fixed" my driver problem yesterday
<Treenaks> (bug 20283)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[X700]  Really bad sync on HP NW8240" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/20283
<RAOF> All of my driver bugs get worked around with XGL.
<Treenaks> running some register dump tool after logging in resolves the problem, yay workarounds ;)
<Treenaks> RAOF: I like my RANDR
<RAOF> I like my resume-from-suspend :)
<Treenaks> RAOF: sounds like Bugfixing Time!
<Fujitsu> I like my resume-from-suspend and RandR.
<RAOF> Treenaks: Say hello to binary blob!
<Treenaks> RAOF: say hello to radeon :)
* RAOF will try out the nouveau drivers sometime soon, but untill then...
<RAOF> ...nvidia will continue to suck.  But suck less than fglrx.
<Treenaks> RAOF: yes, that's why I'm so glad the radeon driver now works for my card (instead of fglrx)
* TheMuso realized the other day that ATI hardware doesn't have XVMC support. :S
<Treenaks> TheMuso: hardware, or drivers?
<TheMuso> Treenaks: Sorry, drivers.
<Fujitsu> fglrx is really great. Starting a second X server on our main desktop causes the kernel to hang.
<Treenaks> TheMuso: because afaik, they're working on it, just severely understaffed
<TheMuso> Thanks to ATI not even releasing specs for cards that have open source driver support.
<TheMuso> Well I only have ATI hardware that is not supported by the binary drivers.
<TheMuso> i.e one mobility 7500, and 9200.
<TheMuso> Sorry, two 9200s.
<Treenaks> TheMuso: they're now doing nvidia/renouveau-like dumps on r500 cards
<Treenaks> TheMuso: using a tool called "revenge"
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<TheMuso> Nice.
<RAOF> :)
<Treenaks> tirdc.livejournal.com :)
<TheMuso> Well I don't think any of mine are R500 card
<TheMuso> cards
<TheMuso> anyways, bbl.
<TheMuso> Dinner.
<Treenaks> 9200 is r300, I think, 7500 is most likely r200
<RAOF> My partner's 9000 mobility works nicely out of the box.
<Treenaks> so does my 9600 mobility :)
<Treenaks> It's just the FireGL V5000 Mobility that's broken :)
<guardian> hello
<guardian> anyone here knows if alsa 1.0.14 packages will be made available for feisty ? main repositories ? or do i have to enable backports ? or do i have to build from source ?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: ^
<Hobbsee> crimsun: wont be in -updates
<Hobbsee> er, guardian, it wont be in -updates
<ajmitch> poor daniel
<guardian> Hobbsee: so i better try to build it from source than wait ?
<Hobbsee> might be smart
<Hobbsee> may possibly be in backports - but unlikely
<Fujitsu> Unlikely.
<guardian> what decides if something goes into backports or not ?
<Hobbsee> a) if it builds, b) if it works c) if it breaks for people
<Hobbsee> and alsa is a fiddly beast, and tends to break
<guardian> ok i see, well gonna try to build from source then, this is the only way i can have my emu1212m working so it's worth the hassle
<crimsun> alsa-driver cannot be backported without backporting -lib as well.
<crimsun> your emu1212m likely won't work even with 1.0.14
<guardian> it's reported to work though
<crimsun> _some_ older models do
<Hobbsee> guardian: FYI - crimsun is the alsagod.
<guardian> Hobbsee: i don't argue people's knowledge :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<crimsun> and asking to backport alsa-driver currently would be silly; it hasn't even entered gutsy yet
<guardian> ok, well i was not aware of that 
<crimsun> (officially: waiting on 1.0.14 to enter sid, which is blocked on i18n processing)
<StevenK> crimsun: And unofficially? :-P
<crimsun> StevenK: killing the udev rule completely and letting kmix or mixer_applet2/pulseaudio handle the state restoration
<crimsun> err, missing "testing ..."
<crimsun> guardian: plenty of people use 1.0.14 just fine with Ubuntu 7.04.  You're responsible for any breakage, however. :-)
<guardian> sure
<guardian> but since i never built alsa from source, i prefered looking for .debs :)
<crimsun> it doesn't really matter.  You'd be overwriting most of /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/kernel/sound/
<Kmos> Hobbsee: hi :)
<Kmos> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libapt-pkg-perl/+bug/121924
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121924 in libapt-pkg-perl "Please sync libapt-pkg-perl 0.1.21 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Incomplete]  
<Hobbsee> hiya
<Kmos> so, i need to change sync to merge ?
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> but there is ubuntu patches ?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: it may be a sync, it may be a merge.   you need to check
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i don't see nothing on ubuntu changelog
<Kmos> that indicates to be a merge
<Hobbsee> Kmos: then you need to say why each of the changes arent needed.
<geser> http://patches.ubuntu.com/liba/libapt-pkg-perl/libapt-pkg-perl_0.1.20ubuntu5.patch
<Hobbsee> Kmos: ie, "the only changes are rebuilds, and build deps x,y,z, which are included in debian" if they actually are
<Kmos> +Build-Depends: perl (>= 5.8.0-6), debhelper (>> 3.0.18), libapt-pkg-dev (>= 0.7.0)
<geser> the only change is a version bump for libapt-pkg-dev
<Kmos> yeah
<Kmos> so maybe isn't needed a merge
<geser> as the last upload was done on Jun 19th bumping the build-depends, I'd at least ask mvo about his opinion on this
<geser> besides such a simple merge is done quick
<Hobbsee> depends what the lowest versoin of apt is in gutsy
<Hobbsee> er,sorry  libapt-pkg-dev
<geser> libapt-pkg-dev | 0.7.2ubuntu2 |
<geser> I guess the bumped b-d was only needed to make sure that is was build with the recent apt
<Hobbsee> and if that's the same, or higher, than what the debian build dep of it is
<Hobbsee> yeah
<geser> the b-d is still libapt-pkg-dev (>= 0.6.40.1) in the debian package
<Kmos> i'll subscribe mvo to the bug
<StevenK> # Accepted alsa-driver 1.0.14-1 (source all) Jordi Mallach
<StevenK> Hrm. I thought crimsun was waiting for that.
* persia thought it was officially waiting for entry to testing, and unofficially waiting for better pulse audio support to be added.
<jerome_> hello all
<jerome_> I need some help with one package i've submitted to revu
<jerome_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5712
<jerome_> I don't manage to get rid of the linda warning
<jerome_> I've added a python-soya.links file in debian/ to create a symlink
<jerome_> and added a rule to the debian/rules file to delete the file 
<jerome_> but as you can see it doesn't work
<jerome_> anyone could help me ?
<persia> jerome_: Does the version of python-soya currently distributed in the archive generate that linda warning?
<jerome_> i will try
<jerome_> yes and another warning that i don't have
<persia> jerome_: Great!  Someone else might still be able to help you resolve this, but if you are only asking for REVU of a package update (please make this more clear in your comments), and there are some bugs you cannot fix in a package, it may still be uploaded.  If you cannot solve it, you might want to open a bug against the package, reporting the issue.
<jerome_> persia : ok
<persia> jerome_: Also, as previously mentioned, please attach the diff of the debian directory to bug 117840, to make it easy to review the packaging changes vs. the upstream changes, and add a link from this bug to a REVU upload for the package.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117840 in soya "Wishlist: Update python-soya package" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117840
<jerome_> persia : ok I will do that
<persia> jerome_: Just to explain: the reason you want to do this is that most packages on REVU are new packages, and the upload policies for new packages are *much* more restrictive than the upload policies on package updates.  If a sponsor knows it is a package update, your work will likely be included more easily.
<jerome_> persia : good to know :)
<jerome_> persia : to do a diff of the two debian folders, is this ok :
<jerome_> diff ./soya-0.12/debian/ ./soya-0.13.1/debian/
<StevenK> jerome_: There's a tool for this, called debdiff
<StevenK> jerome_: debdiff <old dsc> <new dsc>
<persia> jerome_: Better would be `diff -urN ./soya-0.12/debian/ ./soya-0.13.1/debian/`
<jerome_> persia : ok
<tsmithe> anyone able to review the ubuntustudio-* packages on revu?
<persia> StevenK: Using debdiff for package upstream updates requires use of filterdiff to clean up later, which I find hard to explain :(
<persia> tsmithe: I'll take a look.  Did wired get an update as well?
<tsmithe> no not yet
<tsmithe> it's tricky....
<persia> tsmithe: OK.  ubuntustudio-* only it is then.
<tsmithe> thanks a lot
<tsmithe> persia, re the licence of -sounds, if the packaging is good, i would still like to give it a shot in the archive and let the admins decide re licence. is that feasible?
<jerome_> persia : ok done
<persia> tsmithe: Yes, but it can be time consuming.  You might ask here (or in #ubuntu-devel if nobody steps forward) if someone knows if that license is OK first.  Here you'll get good advice, and in -devel, you might get an actual archive admin.
<tsmithe> cool - i'll do that
<persia> jerome_: Thanks.  The comments look much better.  Could you please upload the diff to the bug report?  The pastebin servers regularly purge old posts, and it may be gone before someone looks closely (I'm not a good person to review python packaging).
<jerome_> persia : ok no problem
<jerome_> done
<persia> jerome_: Now, you'll want to request sponsorship as described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing (near the bottom of "Preparing New Revisions"), and someone should look at it within the next couple days.
* tsmithe distutilsises asoundconf-ui
<jerome_> persia : well scott kitterman already had a first look
<persia> jerome_: True, but it doesn't look like it was uploaded.  At this point, you'll want to get another look (perhaps from the same person) in order to get it uploaded (or more comments on why it should not be uploaded yet).
<jerome_> persia: ok i'm reading everything
<tsmithe> ragh stupid connection
<persia> Does anyone have an opinion (or a link to a precedent) on mixing CC-SA and GPL?  I know CC-BY variants are not GPL compatible, but I'm not finding an opinion on only -SA from my initial search.
<polopolo> hello, does someone know how I can add on a .deb join a group
<polopolo> nobody?
<shawarma> polopolo: What do you mean?
<polopolo> I want to package virtualbox, but I don know how I can someone join a group
<shawarma> polopolo: What do you mean by "join a group"? What kind of group?
<gnomefreak> polopolo: you dont need to join a group to build a package
<polopolo> gnomefreak: I need to work the program good
<polopolo> and no errors
<polopolo> wait
<RainCT> polopolo: VirtualBox is already packaged
<polopolo> on ubuntu?
<gnomefreak> yes
<polopolo> I want package the OSE on ubuntu
<gnomefreak> !info virtualbox
<polopolo> and it's not avalible
<ubotu> Package virtualbox does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
<gnomefreak> !info virtualbox gutsy
<RainCT> I have it on Feisty
<ubotu> Package virtualbox does not exist in gutsy
<gnomefreak> i swore we had it
<polopolo> http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads
<jerome_> it's from the repo of virtualbox
<polopolo> the PUEL is avalible
<polopolo> the OSE not
<polopolo> and I want upload the OSE on debian unstable and ubuntu
<StevenK> I seriously doubt it would get accepted.
<polopolo> but can someone explain how to join a group with package
<RAOF> You don't.  First, you package (possibly with help from here).  Then, you put the source on REVU (and possibly mentors.debian.net, but that's debian).  Then you try and get someone to tell you what's wrong with it.
<RAOF> Repeat, until there's nothing wrong with the package, and a MOTU can upload the package into Universe (or a sponsor can upload into Debian)
<RainCT> he means have the user where it is installed joining the VirtualBox group
<RAOF> Aaaah.  That makes more sense :)
<RainCT> when I installed it it created a 'vboxusers' group and added me to it
<persia> Blech.  Offering source as GPL, trademarking the name, and posting notice that the name cannot be used for modified versions is just annoying.
<RAOF> Is that even gpl compatible?
<polopolo> RAOF: there is a GPL vesrion
<RainCT> persia: well, Ubuntu does that too, in minor grade
<persia> RAOF: Yes.  I don't think it's GPLv3 compatible, but that's one of the things that annoys some people about GPLv3.
<RAOF> Fair enough.  I'm not very sure about those edges :)
<polopolo> oh, virtualbox OSE is GPL V2
<polopolo> based
<RAOF> Still.  Annoying, yes.
<polopolo> So no need (or not allowed) to upload it to ubuntu or debian?
<persia> RainCT: Yes, but I think the situation is different for a distribution vs. a software package.
<Hobbsee> yay, virtualbox!
<polopolo> But I wtill don know how to add the user to the virtualbox group on the computer
<RainCT> I don't see the difference. if it wouldn't everybody could make a different version of it and say it's VirtualBox, when in fact _it is a modified version of VirtualBox_
<polopolo> And if I can upload it to ubuntu
<RAOF> RainCT: Part of the thing is: what constitutes a modified version?  Can we patch it to fix bugs?  To change behaviour to make it integrate better?
<polopolo> Nobody has the answer?
<persia> RAOF: On a completely different note, are you still working on 119254?  If so, you might have the background to properly redirect bug 121940 (I'm not sure if it should be dup'd or rejected (and am someone annoyed that neither "wontfix" nor "invalid" really apply).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121940 in kvm "KVM newest version request" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121940
<RAOF> persia: I am, but have been somewhat delayed by marking.
<Hobbsee> yay, marking.
<RAOF> Oh, hells yes.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: do my exam tomorrow.  thankyou.
<persia> RainCT: Most of the packages distributed in Debian or Ubuntu have at least small modifications to make them work better for us.  If we had to change all the names of all the software packages in the process, it would be very difficult for users to understand.
<polopolo> Ok, nobody has the answer, fine :(
<persia> RAOF: No worries: I just thought from your comments that 28 might need a little work before the sync (and don't have the hardware to evaluate it properly).
<polopolo> :'(
<RainCT> ah, yes, if it also applies to patches and such small stuff then yes, it's annoying
<RAOF> polopolo: The answer to your question?  Check out the kvm package; that creates a "kvm" group
<polopolo> *slick*
<persia> RainCT: For a distribution, it's less bad: the branding is mostly just branding, so someone could copy all of Ubuntu, and maintain bug fixes to it without needing to rename things (users would still see "Ubuntu" in many places).
<RAOF> persia: No, it should be a straight sync + add epoch.  I need to (manually) check the ubuntu changes to the kvm-16 package, although I don't think there are any, bar the epoch.
<RainCT> yes, Ubuntu allows to call it "Ubuntu Remix" iirc
<persia> RAOF: Doesn't it also require coordination with an updated kernel?
<polopolo> creating a virtualbox package is difficault *slick*
<RainCT> (off-topic: do you know of any program that allows you to minimize other programs to the notification bar?)
<RAOF> Nope.  kvm-28 works nicely with our current kernel.
<persia> polopolo: Please note that by packaging virtualbox OSE, you are generating modified source, for which you may not be able to use the virtualbox name.
<polopolo> bigger *slick*
<RAOF> !!! Really?
<RainCT> does it allow names derived from virtualbox?
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about really? - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<polopolo> I think a gonna jumping
<persia> I'm not sure what is allowed.  The statement is only "if you choose to ship custom binaries and/or source code revisions of the product, InnoTek reserves the right to deny use of the trademark VirtualBox", which isn't very promising.
<RAOF> I suggest the name IceBox :P
<polopolo> We talk about GPL2.0 right?
<persia> polopolo: http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Licensing_FAQ
<RainCT> for me this sounds like "you are allowed but if we don't like it we can ask you to rename it"
<polopolo> I package virtualbox OSE and that is based on GPL2.0
<RainCT> I'd try mailing InnoTek to be sure of that, and in the case they say 'no' use a derivated name
<Q-FUNK> who would know about ACPI regressions in Feisty (compared to Edgy) and their workarounds?
<polopolo> even with GPL2.0?
<polopolo> can't belive it
<persia> RainCT: Perhaps.  It could also mean "You are welcome to use this code for other purposes, but we don't want to support any virtualbox binaries we didn't build, so you can't call them virtualbox".
<persia> polopolo: Trademark law and Copyright law are different.
<polopolo> SO virtualbox OSE is not based on http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/GPL
<polopolo> but http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL ?
<RainCT> polopolo: it's dual licensed
<RainCT> you can redistribute the GPL version but no the PUEL one
<polopolo> @#@#$@, I stop with package that
<persia> polopolo: Being granted a license to use, modify, and distribute software under the GPL allows certain exceptions to Copyright law, but doesn't affect Trademark law.
<polopolo> e-mail me the answer when the e-mail comes
<zorglu_> q. what is the issue with shipping the PUEL ?
<polopolo> I gonna package further with gverse
<RainCT> polopolo: who has mailed them?
<polopolo> But now I know why firefox now named iceweasel :D
<polopolo> you, or not?
<RainCT> no, should I?
<RainCT> zorglu_:  The Personal Use and Evaluation License allows you to download the VirtualBox binaries for personal and academic use and for evaluation, but it does not give you the right to redistribute these binaries.
<zorglu_> RainCT: ok, this is indeed very clear :)
<polopolo> [15:11]  <RainCT> I'd try mailing InnoTek to be sure of that, and in the case they say 'no' use a derivated name
<RainCT> that was a suggestion
<polopolo> ah
<RainCT> but if no problem doing so if you want
<polopolo> you all say that virtualbox OSE uses things with PUEL inside?
<RainCT> eh?
<zorglu_> RainCT: just in case, virtualbox people are on irc and have been very nice everytime i talked to them. so maybe chatting with them could help
<persia> polopolo: No.  Virtualbox OSE is indeed completely GPLv2.  It's just that the name "virtualbox" is trademarked, and there isn't a clear grant of trademark for redistribution.
<polopolo> ooooooh
<persia> umm...  clear grant of license on the trademark for redistribution.
<polopolo> now I really understand it really
<zorglu_> virtualbox channel with some people from inotek, #vbox
<RainCT> I'm on #vbox-dev
<zorglu_> cool then
<RainCT> found a InnoTek employer there
<persia> employer?  employee?
<polopolo> I join
<zorglu_> innotek provides good sw to opensource, lets treat them as nicely as possible :)
<RainCT> (*employee, sorry)
* persia notes that InnoTek has the right to collect monies for their software: it may be that they prefer the use of PUEL to encourage paid licensing for non-personal use.
<RainCT> but the OSE is only allowed for Open Source projects, or?
<polopolo> I think not, it's only liniced with GPLV2.0, more not
<RainCT> oops sorry, I've said nothing :P
<polopolo> :D
<RainCT> lapse, that was another program :P
<persia> RainCT: I think that restricting a GPL version of dual-licensed software to use within open source projects is a violation of the GPL.  It would be another violation for a closed source project to actually distribute anything based on the GPL version of something else under a license not compatible with the GPL, but there's no reason it couldn't be used internally by some organisation.
* persia points to the removal of linuxsampler from the Debian archive as precedent for this opinion.
* RainCT looks at polopolo and Hobbsee on #vbox-dev
<polopolo> RainCT: so no make virtualbox?
<jussi01> hello everyone
<persia> Hi jussi01
<polopolo> jussi01: hello
<RainCT> polopolo: he said it's ok but he would prefer it they provide the package, or?
<shawarma> persia: The copyright holder of GPL software is free to release the exact same software under a more restrictive license.
<jussi01> qq, if a program is no longer being developed can it be accepted into the repos?
<jussi01> ie. http://qjoypad.sourceforge.net/
<jussi01> hi persia polopolo
<persia> shawarma: Absolutely, I just don't think that the copyright holder can restrict the use of the GPL version by either field of endeavour or by eventual end use (except requiring GPL compatible redistribution).
<persia> jussi01: It's possible, but not encouraged (there needs to be a good reason, such as several active projects that depend on it, etc.).
<shawarma> persia: No, that wouldn't make any sense. You can't say it violates the GPL, though. They've just added an exception to the GPL.
<persia> shawarma: I'm confused.  I thought exceptions to the GPL could only be used to grant more rights to the licensee, not to further restrict granted rights.
<jussi01> persia: thank you. 
<Hobbsee> polopolo: even better if they want to do it themselves
<polopolo> No problem for me, as I say, I go further with package gverse
<persia> jussi01: In this case, I'd like to recommend gizmod, which has an active upstream, and a candidate on REVU.  There's no GUI for it, but there is a nice python interface for configuration.
<Hobbsee> gizmod is being worked on by pricechild
<shawarma> persia: The GPL is just a license. If it's your software, you decide which license to release it under.
<PriceChild> persia, its in the queue, not just candidate on revu?
<persia> PriceChild: Yep, but most people can't download from the NEW queue, so it's not an ideal place to look for things :)
<PriceChild> ahh hehe gotcha
* shawarma takes off
<polopolo> ok next question: must I set confirmed on my name on bug #117772
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117772 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  gVerse" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117772
<persia> shawarma: I agree with that: I just didn't think one could call a license "GPL" if it was more restrictive due to the FSF licensing arrangements.
<persia> polopolo: I'd recommend "In Progress", if you're working on it.
<RAOF> Hey, where can I get the debian source to kvm-16-1?
<RainCT> RAOF: http://packages.debian.org
<RAOF> It's an old version (current is kvm-28-4)
<polopolo> persia: ok
<Hobbsee> bug #111735
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111735 in svnmailer "Notifier: svnmailer.util.URLDecorator" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111735
<persia> RAOF: http://snapshot.debian.net/ is usually helpful, but in this case, I suggest reverting http://patches.ubuntu.com/k/kvm/kvm_1:16-1ubuntu2.patch from the Ubuntu source.
<RAOF> Man, that's a big patch.
<polopolo> and what gonna happen if the package in revu is approved but importfreeze is begon on gutsy?
<RAOF> Oh, because it's against kvm-28
<persia> tsmithe: Are you strongly committed to native packages for the ubuntustudio packages?
<tsmithe> well, i think it makes sense... don't you think?
<persia> RAOF: Hunt around patches.ubuntu.com: there might be an easier patch (I remember something about modular patches, but don't have a link).
<RAOF> Oh, crap.  There wasn't a kvm-16 package.  The most recent one before that was kvm-14.  We then packaged 2 new upstream versions.
<persia> tsmithe: I don't like native packages, so I'm biased.  I'm especially wondering about ubuntustudio-sounds, as there appears to be an active upstream for the original source package (and I don't know how much it's been modified).
<persia> RAOF: In that case, you'd do best to contact the last uploader - perhaps they can provide useful advice.
<tsmithe> persia, i'm pretty ubuntustudio-sounds is a total rewrite of the upstream package: all that's the same is the sound files themselves
<RAOF> persia: Right.  Well, that's not getting done before I go to sleep :)
<bluefoxicy> damnit.
<RAOF> bluefoxicy: Hanging out for your kernel-virtual-machine to work?
<RAOF> :)
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  Desktop effects.
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.
<bluefoxicy> Enabling under my account makes the window title bars vanish
<bluefoxicy> If I create a fresh user account and go enable desktop effects there, works perfectly.
<RAOF> Awesome, stale config.
<bluefoxicy> what do I delete
<bluefoxicy> I tried deleting ~/.compizconfig
<RAOF> Alternatively, it's possible that you've built some compiz plugins before?
<bluefoxicy> no, I just reinstalled feisty 5 minutes ago.
<RAOF> Hm.
<bluefoxicy> and compiz has never worked
<RAOF> It'd be in gconf.
<RAOF> gconftool2 --recursive-unset /apps/compiz might do it
<StevenK> Twitch. --recursive-unset
<StevenK> Even the option sounds evil
<RAOF> rm -r sounds better?
<StevenK> Can't pipe that into gconf? :-P
<tsmithe> rargh.... bzr seems to have crapped up on me again
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  thanks.
<RAOF> rm -r .gconf2, I believe :P
* tsmithe overwrites a branch, in the only hope of fixing
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  There should be an "Attempt to fix errors" button that does that ;)
<tsmithe> this is insanity gone mad
<RainCT> should a debdiff for the patch in bug #68620 be made?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 68620 in gnome-system-monitor "gnome-system-monitor shows squashed key in resources graphs" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/68620
<persia> tsmithe: I've just looked at upstream Borealis, and it doesn't seem to have any packaging.  How is this different from packaging other upstreams (aside from branding)?
<RAOF> bluefoxicy: I believe the phrase is "patches welcome"
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  ;)
<RAOF> bluefoxicy: Also, that's a pretty crazy "attempt to fix errors" action.  I'm not sure I'd apply such a patch, were I in a position to do so.
<RAOF> A better one would, of course, be to not crash on crazy config.
<RAOF> But that goes against the compiz way of ABI incompatibilities and crazy configs.
* RAOF is tired, and tired of marking.  He doesn't really mean that.
<tsmithe> persia, i'm not sure. at the moment, my dsl is down below dial-up speeds, so getting down that 15 meg tarball to compare is a bit difficult. however, the tarball i'm looking at is only about 4.1 meg, so i'm guessing there is a bit of difference somewhere
<bluefoxicy> heh
<persia> tsmithe: Quite a few of the sounds were dropped (causing the size reduction)  it just seems odd to me to have an upstream, but not use it.  This won't keep me from advocating (if appropriate), but doesn't match my understanding of regular practice.
<tsmithe> ok. i'm sure there was a reason to it, but i have only recently adopted the package, and the original packager is a bit busy with real life things for me to get in touch quickly :)
<persia> tsmithe: No worries - just something to investigate.  The last package I saw that had significant similar source (a fork) was rejected by the archive admins at first pass, so you'll want to marshall your arguments in advance.
<tsmithe> righty
<GamezBeCJ> Hello everyone ... My first time here ...
<bluefoxicy> http://youtube.com/watch?v=xC5uEe5OzNQ this is way more impressive than what I'm getting now
<persia> GamezBeCJ: Welcome!
<superm1> Hi GamezBeCJ 
<GamezBeCJ> Ubuntu Beryl video in youtube is very impressive !
<_MMA_> bluefoxicy: Try: http://youtube.com/watch?v=E4Fbk52Mk1w HOWTO: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=481314&highlight=compiz+fusion My little screenshot: http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7477/screenshotri7.png
<bluefoxicy> ah
<GamezBeCJ> I just installed ... it's beautiful ... 
<bluefoxicy> lol.
<bluefoxicy> switching metacity theme, crashing gnome-xchat
<DarkMageZ> bluefoxicy, xchat is better :P
<polopolo> I gonna race on windows xp, bye all :D
<Kmos> crimsun: are you there?
<ScottK> persia: In general, putting a statement about copyright of Debian packaging is recommended, but it's not yet "Policy"
<persia> ScottK: No?  I thought it was.  Thanks.
<ScottK> persia: It's not policy until it's published in an updated policy manual.
* persia needs to review the policy manual
<ScottK> persia: Of course the policy manual by definition lags since it codifies policy in use, it doesn' t drive it.
<ScottK> Gotta run.
<jussi01> hmmm...anyone use the medibuntu repos? they seem to be down for me...
<Adri2000> jussi01: works for me. tell Sp4rKy if it doesn't work for you, he is responsible for medibuntu's servers.
<jussi01> Sp4rKy: Im getting 404's on all the medibuntu repos from  http://medibuntu.sos-sts.com
<mr_pouit> jussi01: please use medibuntu.org (see http://www.medibuntu.org/repository.php) ;)
<tobiasschul1> hi
<tobiasschul1> i have a problem with dput
<tobiasschul1> dput -f svn/jeliza_2.3.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<tobiasschul1> Upload package to host revu
<tobiasschul1> Checking Signature on .changes
<tobiasschul1> gpg: Signature made Sun Jun 24 17:15:04 2007 UTC using DSA key ID C619E867
<tobiasschul1> gpg: Good signature from "Tobias Schulz <tobischulz@arcor.de>"
<tobiasschul1> Good signature on svn/jeliza_2.3.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes.
<tobiasschul1> Checking Signature on .dsc
<tobiasschul1> gpg: Signature made Sun Jun 24 17:15:00 2007 UTC using DSA key ID C619E867
<tobiasschul1> gpg: Good signature from "Tobias Schulz <tobischulz@arcor.de>"
<tobiasschul1> Good signature on svn/jeliza_2.3.2-0ubuntu1.dsc.
<tsmithe> uhoh
<tobiasschul1> Package includes an .orig.tar.gz file although the debian revision suggests
<tobiasschul1> that it might not be required. Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be
<tsmithe> !flood
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<tobiasschul1> rejected by the upload queue management software.
<tobiasschul1> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<tobiasschul1>   jeliza_2.3.2-0ubuntu1.dsc:
<tobiasschul1> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of jeliza_2.3.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<tobiasschul1> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
<tobiasschul1>       For the official Debian upload queues, the dcut(1) utility can be used
<tobiasschul1>       to remove stale files from unsuccessful uploads.
<tobiasschul1> ok
<man-di> tobiasschul1: DONT DO THIS PLEASE
* tsmithe emphasises the please and the not
<tobiasschul1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27040/
<tobiasschul1> i was uploading the file before, but my computer has crashed
<tobiasschul1> what to do?
<bluekuja> tobiasschul1, ping a REVU admin
<bluekuja> and ask to have it removed
<tobiasschul1> who is a revu admin? ^^
<bluekuja> they seems to be away, persia you can fix it?
<bmm> Any motu: ccbuild is looking for it's second advocate or comments to change it, please look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5685
<bmm> Is anybody still online here? Does my IRC work? Persia are you online?
* bmm thinks it's quiet, to quiet...
<bmm> there is probably a meeting somewhere :-D
<Baby> hi!
<Baby> bmm: I read u
<bmm> Ah, cool IRC is working then :-) Thanks, that's all I needed to know
<Baby> :)
<man-di> bmm: its sunday, on sunday its normally quiet here
<man-di> more quiet then usual at least
<bmm> Ah, then that's it. I just got back from a weekend away so I'm in for some packaging ;-)
<icf7> Is the debian policy manual binding for Ubuntu too?
<geser> yes
<geser> there is no difference packagewise if you do a deb for Debian or Ubuntu
<icf7> mmm ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/CommonPackagingMistakes/ChangingTheOrigTarball contains examples of uscan usage, and http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules specifies that get-orig-source can be called from every directory (".. leaves it in cwd")
<icf7> how do these two specifications fit? Is there a good example on how to use uscan/implement get-orig-source?
<ScottK> The MOTU Meeting for Friday does not appear to be on the schedule for #ubuntu-meeting.  persia, where you taking care of that?
* ScottK goes back to adding regular clamav whining session to the agenda...
<crimsun> I've pinged -marketing to get it added to fridge.uc
<ScottK> Cool.
<Kmos> crimsun: bug 104848
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 104848 in hwdb-client "Bad english translation on hwdb-client" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104848
<Kmos> check this out
<crimsun> I'm busy ATM>
<Kmos> ok
<nixternal> added the MOTU meeting to the Fridge
<crimsun> thanks.
<nixternal> no problem. Thanks for the +1 by the way!
<ScottK> nixternal: I guess the quality of your sucking up has improved.
<nixternal> hahah
<crimsun> oh crap, did I type '+' instead of '-'?  Damn, better amend that.
<nixternal> figures ;p
<coNP> - + - = + ?
<crimsun> nixternal: do most (subjective) KDE 3 apps have a Close or Quit pushbutton?
<crimsun> ScottK: ^ , too
<nixternal> when you say subjective, you mean something like a small widget and not a full windowed app?
<nixternal> err, s/widget/applet
<crimsun> nixternal: no, "subjective" above means "in your sampling of KDE 3 apps"
<crimsun> I'm not sure there is a quantifiable method of determining "most" for everyone.
<nixternal> oh...that would be a no, file->exit (alt+q), and the big X up top
<crimsun> nixternal: ok, and do you generally use alt+q or the window manager's Close?
<nixternal> depends in if I am at the keyboard or not really, but mostly, the X does it for me, or alt+f4/q
<crimsun> ok, so a Qt application generally would need to offer a File menu, too
<nixternal> yes
<crimsun> ok, thanks.
<crimsun> I'll adjust my app
<crimsun> currently I'm simplying relying on the window manager's Close
<nixternal> crimsun: if it is just somethin small that allows something like an enable/disable option, then you don't need the filemenu
<crimsun> however, consistency within the environment is very important
<nixternal> a quit button and the X would be enough
<crimsun> well, my concern is whether "most" KDE 3 apps even offer a Quit pushbutton
<nixternal> there is/was a KDE GUI guide, but last I looked, it seemed a little outdated
<nixternal> I am trying to think of one with a Quit button
<crimsun> nixternal: http://www.trilug.org/~crimsun/Screenshot.png
<crimsun> nixternal: top right, Qt3.  Bottom right, Qt4.
<nixternal> crimsun: that is about perfect..I think maybe an "OK" button?
* nixternal looks at some applets that are similar
<crimsun> nixternal: do most KDE 3 apps have an OK pushbutton?
<nixternal> the configuration windows typically do
<crimsun> ok, and this holds true in both KDE 3 and KDE 4?
<crimsun> is the OK pushbutton always enabled/active?
<nixternal> actually, in your case, since there is only one setting to apply, then maybe just an "OK" and a "Cancel"
<nixternal> let me check with someone really quick
<nixternal> OK is always enabled, y es
<crimsun> err, I'd rather be consistent with the KDE X UI
<crimsun> if most configuration dialogs have Apply and Ok, then I need both pushbuttons
<crimsun> if most only have Ok and Cancel, then I need those
<crimsun> etc.
<crimsun> what I'm attempting to avoid is have this dialog do something completely different from, say, KMix dialog windows
<nixternal> heh, config dialogs have "help", "defaults", "OK", "apply", and "cancel"
<nixternal> but those dialogs have more than 1 view for configuration as well
<icf7> crimsun: Apply is "do the action, but don't close the window"
<crimsun> ok, "defaults" is not sensible in this case
<crimsun> icf7: yes, that's its current semantics
<crimsun> as implemented in displayqt[34] .py
<ScottK> crimsun: It looks reasonable to me.  Agree with icf7.  If you are going to close the window as well as apply, I think it should say OK, not Apply.
<crimsun> ScottK: I agree there, but I need to know if Ok _and_ Apply pushbuttons appear in _most_ windows
<ScottK> crimsun: I'll look around a bit.
<crimsun> I shouldn't need a Help action; the app should be so straightforward that Help would be superfluous
<crimsun> IMO the app is straightforward, but what do I know?  I do this junk all the time. ;)
<nixternal> crimsun: http://developer.kde.org/documentation/standards/kde/style/dialogs/simple.html
<crimsun> Thus, a non-debugger's perspective is vital
<nixternal> so you would offer them the selection, and then just an OK button
<ScottK> crimsun: I just looked at several of the system settings type windows and they all had either Apply or OK depending on if they would close the window or not.
<ScottK> crimsun: I don't think that there is any application too trivial for Help.
<AndyP> the gnome sound prefs has a close button and making a selection applies the change immediately, but that's gnome
<superm1> is there a way to make debconf think that a package isn't configured, so that next time another package gets installed, it is forced to run the postinst script again?
<superm1> well i guess s/debconf/apt/
<crimsun> AndyP: Toby's GTK+ 2 UI uses slightly different semantics.
<crimsun> AndyP: His changes are active (written to ~/.asoundrc.asoundconf if appropriate) upon combobox change.
<crimsun> I'm working with slightly different semantics, since I have to use Qt/KDE
<crimsun> in this latter vein, I need at least an Apply which is only active upon combobox change
<AndyP> understood
<nixternal> crimsun: when you are done, I would like to see your code for this app, there is something similar I would like to do as well...did you use Python or C++?
<crimsun> nixternal: launchpad.net/asoundconf-ui.
<nixternal> rock on
<crimsun> PyQt3 and PyQt4
<nixternal> exactly what I wanted you to say
<crimsun> my branch is ~motu/trunk
<crimsun> Toby's is ~tsmithe/trunk
<crimsun> ScottK: what do you feel a Help action would add?
<ScottK> crimsun: I'm not sure exactly since I haven't been following the details, but even though it seems obvious, it ought to say something about what the program does and perhaps something about how one might decide what selection to make.
<crimsun> there are ToolTips
<crimsun> like "Apply"'s is "Commit change"
<crimsun> but I'm not sure how to go about the latter suggestion of yours
<ScottK> Up to you, but I don't think anything is too trivial for help.  
<ScottK> I'm all about the theory, implementation is a detail left to you ;-)
<crimsun> well, I'm all for Help; I'm just having a difficult time seeing how it actually clarifies anything
<ScottK> Maybe for your initial release have a help stub asking people to e-mail you with questions they were expecting to find an answer to in the help.
<crimsun> this is going to be even more fun when I try to fix GNOME's control-center mess
<ScottK> Heh
<crimsun> and it gets even _more_ fun when I have to explain that the change only takes effect for newly executed alsa apps
<crimsun> bah, libglademm2.4 is still broken
<crimsun> well, thanks for input, everyone
<athena> what's the deal with package signing? whenever I build something, apt throws a gpg error
<YannDinendal> hi
<icf7> athena: Do you have a private key imported to gpg? Use a gpg frontend of your choice to verify it.
<athena> icf7, yes, I do
<athena> when I run dpkg-buildpackage, it even askes me for my password at the end
<athena> but when I stick them in a local repository and try to apt-get them, apt says that they can't be authenticated
<icf7> athena: This is fine.
<icf7> athena: How should they? You must import the public ones first to authenticate them.
<athena> how?
<geser> that are two different signatures
<athena> hmm?
<geser> the signing at packaging building is used for uploading
<athena> then how do I sign them so that they can be downloaded?
<geser> the signature that apt checks is from the release file from the repository
<geser> what do you use for your repository?
<athena> uh, cp and vim
<geser> and how do you generate the Packages file? with vim?
<minghua> athena: http://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt
<athena> dpkg-scanpackages/dpkg-scansources
<minghua> and I don't think it's an error, just a warning, which you can ignore
<athena> yes, but I'd need --force-yes, which is not good to use in scripts
<geser> create a release file with e.g. apt-ftparchive
<geser> a create a detached signature for it
<geser> better would be to use a repository software which does it for you
<athena> oh? is there anything light? 
<RainCT> good night
<minghua> apt-get(1) man page says there is an "--allow-unauthenticated" option
<minghua> I've never used it, but it looks like what you wanted instead of "--force-yes"
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<minghua> hello TheMuso
<ScottK> Hello TheMuso
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-16
<lukehasnonam1> I don't know how or if it's possible, but my 8800M is not correctly detected by the driver manager. Would it be possible for Ubuntu to take the binary package from Nvidia.com and package it for Hardy/Intrepid, so 8 series mobile cards can be supported automatically?
<LinuxMonkey> finally i think i got my chroot done right
<LinuxMonkey> nope my chroot got messed up again.lol
<LinuxMonkey> Anyone here to help me with creating a intrepid chroot, im running into hell when trying to follow the guide.
<ryanakca> How can I have quilt version an empty file?
<Baron1984> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5194590#post5194590
<superm1> any other motu's around that would be able to take a quick glance at a package i threw together?
<persia> superm1: I can do a quick glance, but not a proper review.  URL?
<superm1> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~motu/coreavc/ubuntu
<superm1> that's a bzr URL
<superm1> persia, ^
<persia> README.Ubuntu?
<superm1> it's not going into debian yet.
<superm1> it's a makeshift solution until the patches for it's enablement float out to a lot of other packages
<persia> heh.  Why compat 5?  Not 6 or 7?
<superm1> backportability
<persia> You don't need XS- in Vcs-Bzr: anymore
<persia> (except maybe for backportability)
<superm1> yeah that's why i left it, in case
<persia> Are you backporting to Dapper, feisty, or gutsy?
<superm1> as far back as gutsy at least
<superm1> probably no more than that though
<persia> OK.  Gutsy does better with XS-
<LinuxMonkey> sup persia and superm1
<persia> The manpage is clearly incomplete :)  -b, -g, and -o are not defined.
<superm1> yeah i dont know what they do yet
<superm1> upstream hasn't documented them well
<persia> Heh
<superm1> that's another issue though ;)
<persia> You don't need to overload get-sv-source or export-svn-source, as CDBS doesn't have these rules.
<superm1> when you say overload, you are referring to the double ::, correct?
<persia> Yep.
<persia> Also, why `ln -sf` rather than `cp` for Makefile?
<superm1> I didn't ever realize that was for overloading.  I had thought it was just syntax
<superm1> functionally equivalent?
<persia> It means that you are defining a rule that may also be defined elsewhere.  make concatenates all the :: rules to generate the rule used.  Having :: rules depend on things tends to cause odd behaviours.
<superm1> Ah i see.
<persia> This is why the CDBS documentation tells you to use things like makefuilddir/dshowserver::, rather than trying to overload the regular rules.
<persia> Now, as an exercise, explain the differences between "=". ":=", and "?="
<superm1> it's when they are evaluated
<persia> succinct, and correct.  10 points!
<superm1> i always mix them up, so if things dont work right the first time, i try the next one :)
<persia> superm1: Ah.  That explains your use of "=" for CFLAGS
<persia> SVN_REVISION is the only one that really wants to be "=", and it would probably be better to be "?="
<superm1> theo ther 3 would be better off as "=:" then I take it?
<persia> ":=" I think
 * persia checks again
<superm1> oh you're right yeah
<superm1> i just mistyped
<persia> Right.  := is best for things you set at parse-time.  ?= is best for things that have expensive evaluations that you want at runtime.  = should only be used when you want to run the calculation again for each call.
<superm1> yeah i switched those around and still functional.
<persia> Whether TARFILE or SVN_REVISION should be ?= or := depends on how they are defined in CDBS.  You might well want ?= for those.
<persia> CFLAGS and SVN_URL should definitely be :=
<persia> Bah.  CDBS executes DEB_SOURCE_PACKAGE unconditionally as :=, so even := works :(  Ought be ?=, but I suppose using := makes it less confusing to write debian/rules
<superm1> yeah
<superm1> thanks for looking through the package persia
<persia> superm1: No problems.  I'm a bit rusty at package review, and didn't do any of the usual lintian or license checking, so I don't promise it's perfect, but not much missing.
<superm1> persia, yeah, i've run lintian and the license is pretty basic (GPL), so should be okay.  I'm going to get a few folks to test it (i dont have a license for the proprietary piece you need for it to work yet), before i'll push it
<pi-meson> I know this is off topic, but is there a channel for automake/autoconf questions?
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> moins
<geser> good morning
<\sh> guten morgen geser :)
<geser> Guten Morgen \sh
<Koon> hmm. I subscribed motu-sru by mistake on bug 235868 -- dnsmasq is in main now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 235868 in dnsmasq "dnsmasq 2.41-2ubuntu1 init script typo: log_msg_end" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/235868
<Koon> motu-sru: feel free to unsubscribe to fix my mess, sorry for the noise
<DktrKranz> Koon: no problem, thanks for reporting :)
<Koon> DktrKranz: thx ;)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you around, by any chance?
<Hobbsee> hm.  seems not
<directhex> are .orig.bz2 archives allowed yet, or do i still need to convert to gzip?
<persia> directhex: Best connect to gzip for now.  If you really want to keep .bz2, give it a try in a PPA, but I think it doesn't work yet.
<directhex> is there a "proper" way to do the conversion?
<persia> directhex: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#head-4bb01b3c07548aaf98e85ac7eb7983e632f8eb38
<directhex> cheers
<\sh> guys, tonight is sru team meeting, right? :)
<dholbach> james_w: MOTU School FTW! :)
<james_w> dholbach: thanks persia :-)
<DktrKranz> \sh... it should, no confirmation though
<dholbach> thanks persia! :)
<sebner> uhh the elite is here =) cheers so persia \sh DktrKranz and dholbach ^^
<DktrKranz> sebner: please file a demote bug: "move dktrkranz out of elite"
<DktrKranz> I'll be happy to ACK it :P
<\sh> mv elite/\\sh /dev/zero :)
<sebner> pfff, here all the pro's don't think they are pros though they *are* pro's =)
<persia> \sh: You can't rewrite history: it's all archived :)
<sebner> right dholbach ?
<dholbach> sebner: I hope I'm not perceived as elitist ;-)
<\sh> persia: /me is definitely not elite :)
<sebner> dholbach: you are on youtube so no chance :P
<\sh> dholbach: oh well..if being on youtube makes you elite, then I'm really elite, too ;)
<dholbach> hehe
 * sebner gives up, our elite is too decent
<sebner> \sh: ubuntu MOTU chan on youtube ;)
 * DktrKranz is happy to be ignored by youtube
<\sh> sebner: you actually don't know how near you are to the truth ;)
<DktrKranz> or you will see me drunk by too many apt-get install wine
<sebner> \sh: HA!
<sebner> DktrKranz: rofl
<\sh> sebner: well, not youtube, but much better :)
<sebner> \sh: the new LP project?
<\sh> sebner: ah no...:)
<sebner> \sh: you and apachelogger drunken in berlin? ^^
<\sh> sebner: that's old news ;)
<sebner> \sh: so, tell me =)
<\sh> sebner: na...it's da secret :)
<DktrKranz> whoa, drunk people in here... be careful when using dput ubuntu then!
<\sh> DktrKranz: /me is not drunk NOW
<\sh> no beer before four ;)
<DktrKranz> :)
<sebner> \sh: well, secrets will be revealed sooner or later ;)
<\sh> sebner: yes
<dholbach> speaking of youtuve videos: is there any way to report bugs on youtube? :)
<sebner> lol
<dholbach> I can't reply to one of the comments on one of the videos
<\sh> dholbach: my way? I'll call someone at google swiss ;)
<dholbach> if I enter a comment, click reply, the text box goes gray and it just sits there
<\sh> but...
<dholbach> \sh: if you do the next time, let them know that their commenting system is broken (at least for jcastro and me)
<sebner> dholbach: anything related to flash is totally b0rken ;)
<dholbach> sebner: I doubt the comment system has anything to do with flash :-)
<\sh> sebner: but if you want to have a look at a not so secret news anymore, have a look here: http://leonov.tv/content/latest-draft-logo :)
 * sebner looks
<\sh> sebner: in general I would agree with you. but in cornercases I disagree with you :)
<persia> \sh: What happened to Cyrillic?
<\sh> persia: it's a draft...the cyrillic version is in work :)
<sebner> \sh: but this is that new LP project with the Qt/GTK application bug thing
<sebner> dholbach: but flash has so much bad and black power so it influences all of the site xD
<\sh> sebner: that's a draft of the new logo of launchpad incorporated into leonovs new logo, which you are looking at :)
 * dholbach confiscates sebner's crack pipe :-P
<sebner> lol
<\sh> sebner: and it's a work of less then one hour ;)
 * sebner hugs dholbach 
 * Hobbsee pinches the crack pipe
<sebner> \sh: *NICE*
<sebner> almighty Hobbsee with the stick and the crack pipe x
 * Hobbsee muhahahaha
 * \sh is really excited to see the people doing work...rainct is rocking...rugby is also rocking and nasam does great work on the gtk frontend side...
<sebner> \sh: rugby = ruby?
<\sh> sebner: Rugby471 -> Andrew ... the guy who's doing work on the logo
<sebner> ah
<sebner> kk
<sebner> \sh: I my holidays I could write a GTK# for you ^^
<sebner> + version
<DktrKranz> sebner: have you a backup crack pipe?
 * sebner looks under his bed
<\sh> sebner: hmm? main language is python...and stays...no mono here ;)
<\sh> sebner: learn python dude...
<sebner> \sh: opensource, open to anything?
<\sh> sebner: you could try to work on a windows frontend :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: he stole my only crack pipe xD
<\sh> sebner: but again, python is the way to go..;)
<sebner> \sh: ehm, gtk# != windows so no. gnu FTW!!!
<\sh> that reminds me to ask for an gpl licensed pyqt4 on windows
<sebner> dholbach: when will the next episodes arrive and how many are planned?
<highvoltage> dholbach: howdy. are those ubuntudeveloper videos available for download anywhere?
<dholbach> sebner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Videos :-)
<dholbach> highvoltage: http://videos.ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> dholbach: ah, thanks!
<sebner> dholbach: ok let's say: How many will *you* do in future
<askand> Hello! Can someone in here help me making a debdiff?
<persia> askand: Sure.
<persia> askand: How far did you get?
<highvoltage> sebner: you sound like dholbach's newest stalker :)
<dholbach> highvoltage: hehe
<sebner> he looks so sympathic :P
<sebner> German power, FTW!!! xD
 * \sh needs to buy some new hardware...
<askand> ï»¿persia:  I have made the changes in the directorytree and changed the changelog, but forgot where to go from here
<persia> askand: And your changelog has the updated version?
<askand> ï»¿persia: yes
<persia> OK.  You can build the candidate source package with `debuild -S -us -uc` (or just `debuild -S` if you have your GPG key all configured)
<persia> Then, change to the parent directory, and call debdiff repository-version.dsc candidate-revision.dsc > candidate-revision.debdiff
<persia> Check this file to make sure it contains exactly the changes you wanted.
<askand> Hm I get an error from debuild; dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc -S failed
<persia> askand: OK.  You likely got a couple errors above that.  Pastebin?
<askand> ï»¿persia: http://pastebin.com/mf04e8e5
<askand> im afraide bits of it is in swedish
<persia> Swedish is fine.  I mostly only have trouble reading these error messages in Devengali-based scripts. :)
<askand> ok :)
<persia> askand: How did you update the changelog?
<askand> ï»¿ persia: with gedit
<askand> ? =-O
<persia> askand: Aha!  Your format isn't quite right.  Try removing your entry, running `export EDITOR=gedit`, and calling `dch -i`
<askand> ï»¿persia:  thanks now it worked :)
<persia> askand: Excellent.  Good luck with your candidate.
<askand> thanks for helping out
<gaspa> doko_: can i merge python-xml?
<persia> gaspa: Finally caught you :)
<gaspa> persia: Hi! yep. ;)
<persia> gaspa: What do you want to do about NBS?  Do you need more feedback?
<gaspa> persia: well. after reading your mail... i'll have much to working on,
<gaspa> :)
<persia> gaspa: OK :)  How often are you about this early in the afternoon?
<gaspa> mmm.. .don't know .. i'm quite busy.
<persia> OK.  Well, email works :)
<gaspa> oh ,sure. ;)
<gaspa> persia: just two thing... i found a server on which i' could generate xml. So ubuntuwire could only link me, or host only the xml file.
<gaspa> the second: i'm uploading it all to my bzr.
<persia> gaspa: Putting it in public VCS is always good :)  As for hosting vs. linking, I'm not the best person to ask.  Try in #ubuntuwire.
<gaspa> persia: great.
<devfil> Someone can review pidgin-msn-pecan on revu? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pidgin-msn-pecan
<dennda> dholbach: Thanks for those videos
<highvoltage> dholbach: would you happen to know where the UDS Prague videos can be downloaded?
<dennda> Is there any more detailed textual `tutorial` on what dholbach explained here http://youtube.com/watch?v=VyEl3w7SFK4&amp;feature=related (and the following videos)?
<persia> dennda: YouTube doesn't work for me.  What is the topic?
<dennda> persia: MOTU Getting started and How to build a package
<dennda> (Very basic in 3 x 6 Minutes)
<persia> dennda: As for getting started, I think the best way is to find a bug that bothers you, and find a solution, and get a patch into the archives.
<persia> As for building a package: a source package consists of some upstream source, and a debian/ directory for the meta-information.
<persia> The essential files in this directory are control, copyright, rules, and changelog.
<dennda> persia: Yes, dholbach nicely explained that. I just wonder whether there is a more complete documentation on the process
<persia> dennda: I really ought to get around to updating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing , but it encapusaltes some of my previous thoughts on how to get involved with MOTU.
<dennda> I am not a C hacker, but got a package (memaker) included in hardy which has been fetched from a revision that is not up to date and has some bugs. I fixed those bugs in a more recent revision and would like to have that fix included. (Just for getting my hands dirty. The package isn't too important)
<persia> For packaging, I recommend you work with existing packages for a while, as this will help build your experience with the many different possible correct ways to package things, and let you build some opinions.
<dennda> (I did not build that package in the first place but am one of the authors of the project)
<persia> If you just want to update a package, unpack the new source, copy in the old debian/ update the changelog, adjust any patches that no longer apply, and run the package checkers again to see if policy changed in a way that requires your action.
<sebner> dennda: there were rumors that memaker is dead upstream
<persia> sebner: apparently not :)
<sebner> persia: hrhr, I see
<sebner> persia: how are you doing with your intrepid chroots :P
<dennda> sebner: There has been no commit for quite some time, that is correct. I myself havn't had the time to do much for it due to university studies and now I am in GSoC, but the initial author sent a nice "Let's get it on for 2.0"-mail to the dev-list
<dennda> (yes, we have something like that :))
<persia> sebner: They continue to be dormant.  I expect I'll be sorting them in the next couple days now, as I've some incentives.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Around now.
<sebner> persia: kk ^^
<ScottK> Good $TIMEOFDAY all.
<Laney> 'lo
<sebner> ScottK: hi, you failed I suppose :P
<ScottK> sebner: Yes.
<sebner> np
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Laney> geser: Do you mind if I do the vegastrike merge?
<persia> Laney: Does that really still require a merge?  I thought all the changes got back into Debian.
<Laney> persia: I'm using merge as shorthand for "Check if it still requires a merge, and do the appropriate work"
<persia> Laney: Ah.  OK.
<Hobbsee> @now mst
<ubottu> Hobbsee: Current time in MST: June 16 2008, 05:27:58 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
<Hobbsee> hm
<gaspa> someone knows what's the status of python-xml package? should be merged or not?
<gaspa> ScottK: you, perhaps? :p
<ScottK> gaspa: It'd be nice to try and get rid of it actually.
<gaspa> ScottK: ok, so it's not worth mergin it, right?
<ScottK> gaspa: If we succeed in getting rid of it, no.  If we don't, yes.
<ScottK> At this point I'd suggest lookng at the remaining rdepends and see if they can be taught not to need it.
<gaspa> let's see...
<gaspa> ScottK: strange: pyslide doesn't depends on it for 0.4-10ubuntu2, while reappear on 0.4-10ubuntu3...
<ScottK> Yes.  Look at the bug closed in ubuntu3
<gaspa> ScottK: there are at least 22 packages that doens't seem to be even touched for this issue
<gaspa> ScottK: there's a list with the commands used: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20611/
<ScottK> gaspa: That's a bit of an odd list as some of those packages don't even exist in Intrepid (schooltool was removed).
<gaspa> ah
<sebner> ScottK: isn't that a sync? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/apache2/2.2.9-1ubuntu1
<sebner> ScottK: or did he just didn't mention always the same ones
<ScottK> sebner: Apache is in main.  I wouldn't worry it.
<sebner> ScottK: yeah, just noticed that and was confused
<ScottK> K.
<freeflying_> dose who wanna take this #240365?
<sebner> bug ##240365
<sebner> bug #240365
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240365 in ubuntu "Please sync liblinebreak-dev 0.9.6-5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240365
<ScottK> sebner: I pinged the guy that uploaded it.
<sebner> ScottK: ah, O_o no stress about that. maybe he just didn't write the usual changes+
<freeflying_> can we sync package directly into main?
<ScottK> sebner: No.  The changelog is correct.
<sebner> ScottK: so?
<gaspa> ScottK: in intrepid there are only 15.  (only?) :P
<ScottK> gaspa: We had ~60 when we started on it in Hardy, so that's not so bad.
<gaspa> :)
<ScottK> I'm pretty sure there's a newer python-zsi than the one we had for Hardy that doesn't need python-xml anymore.
<gaspa> well, there's also python-xml-doc that perhaps doesn't matter. ;)
<ScottK> That could be removed with python-xml.
<gaspa> and -dbg
<ScottK> Also python-xml removal is a goal in Debian, so maybe this stuff is fixed there too.
<sebner> freeflying_: ping
<sistpoty> freeflying_: you'll need to write a MIR for it iirc
<sistpoty> (main inclusion report)
<sebner> huhu sistpoty =)
<sistpoty> hi sebner
<freeflying_> sebner: pong
<sebner> freeflying_: you are chinese, would you translate something for me?
<freeflying_> sistpoty: it even isn't in ubuntu, how is a MIR going :)
<freeflying_> sebner: what kind?
<sebner> freeflying_: http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4374/22079075bv5.jpg
<ScottK> First you make sebner promise to package it.
<sistpoty> freeflying_: then I guess it would need to enter universe first
<sebner> ScottK: but just when ScottK is looking at courier :P
<sistpoty> freeflying_: however you might want to ask on -devel for clarification ;)
<freeflying_> sebner: forget it, a spam
<lukehasnoname> Who would I talk to about getting a different/additional nvidia binary driver into the repos?
<sebner> freeflying_: I know but what is standing there ^^
<sebner> *written
<ScottK> lukehasnoname: Probably tseliot.
<sistpoty> sebner: either enlarge your genitals, or loose weigth, or you have won a ridiculus large amount of money..., or a mix of these three :P
<freeflying_> sebner: it said theycan provide u invoice you wanna
<lukehasnoname> ok ScottK
<freeflying_> sebner: I supposed you won'd need :)
<sebner> hrhr
<sebner> sistpoty: rofl rofl rofl
<gaspa> sistpoty: "enlarge your ridicoulus weight" could be fine?
<sebner> freeflying_: thanks, just wondering why I'm getting a chinese picture spam O_o
<sistpoty> haha gaspa
<freeflying_> sebner: for anti-spam can not find those information in a pic now :)
<sebner> ScottK: so what's no with apache?
<sebner> freeflying_: I know but nevertheless, why is a chinese send me a mail xD
<persia> sebner: Because your name & email address are now mirrored worldwide...
<sebner> persia: yeah, spread the word. I should reply with ubuntu advertisment
<ScottK> sebner: There isn't a lot of value in wondering why about spam.
<ScottK> sebner: Also recall that virtually all spam is sent from forged email addresses.
<sebner> ScottK: well, I never recieved chinese span so it's something special xd
<ScottK> sebner clearly has more free time than ScottK.
<Xand3r> hi
<ScottK> Hello Xand3r.
<sebner> ScottK: xD, why?
<ScottK> sebner: You have time to worry about such things.
<sebner> ScottK: well, I should learn for school xD
<Xand3r> i uploaded a package to revu, but it does not appears there, siretart i think you are an admin, can you help me?
<sistpoty> Xand3r: I'll take a look at it
<Xand3r> thx sistpoty
<sistpoty> Xand3r: screenie-qt?
<Xand3r> yes
<sebner> ScottK: I still didn't got what's now with apache ...
<sistpoty> Xand3r: it's a binary upload (with a .deb), so this will not show up
<sistpoty> Xand3r: please upload a source package instead (use -S -sa as arguments for dpkg-buildpackage/debuild)
<Xand3r> i have uploaded the *.changes
<sistpoty> Xand3r: yes, but the .changes refer to a binary package (there is a line with a .deb in the .changes file)
<ScottK> sebner: I asked him why he didn't just ask for a sync and the answer I got was, "because I havent had any coffee yet".
<sistpoty> Xand3r: as written above, just use -S -sa for dpkg-buildpackage, then you'll get a .changes file referring to a source package
<Xand3r> ok thx sistpoty, i will change it
<sistpoty> Xand3r: thanks
 * sistpoty updates the keyring while at it
<tseliot> ï»¿lukehasnoname: what driver would you like to get included?
<tseliot> ï»¿lukehasnoname: and what use-case would it cover?
<sebner> ScottK: ROFL
<sebner> ScottK: however, thanks
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Would you have time for doing an SRU verification?
<lukehasnoname> sorry tseliot I was away
<lukehasnoname> My 8800M was not detected correctly by the driver manager
<lukehasnoname> and nvidia-glx didn't seem to function properly
<lukehasnoname> After uninstalling linux-restricted-modules, nvidia-*, and jockey, I installed nvidia's 64-bit .run package successfully
<DktrKranz> ScottK: if it doesn't require UI, sure
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Bug #228877
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 228877 in dkim-milter "package dkim-filter 2.5.4.dfsg-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/228877
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<lukehasnoname> Bug 224893
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224893 in compiz "OpenGL applications flicker when using ati cards (GNOME only)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224893
<lukehasnoname> Ah damnit, wrong bug. hold on
<lukehasnoname> 239072
<lukehasnoname> bug 239072
<lukehasnoname> >_>
<Xand3r> sistpoty: its up now
<sistpoty> :)
<Xand3r> i hope it is now right
<tseliot> ï»¿lukehasnoname: the driver you need is already available through EnvyNG. It's in hardy-proposed. Read here: http://albertomilone.com/wordpress/?p=210
<tseliot> ï»¿lukehasnoname: make sure you uninstall the one from NVIDIA's installer first
<sistpoty> Xand3r: we'll see in 7 minutes or so, then it should get picked up by revu's cron job
<directhex> nvidia-installer eats babies. i'd suggest not running it
<directhex> unless you REALLY hate babies
<Xand3r> ok thx sistpoty
<sistpoty> np
<lukehasnoname> Well I've already run it, and stuff works alright now. I'll use the hardy-proposed one next install. Does -proposed means packages that are looking to get into the general repo?
<DktrKranz> ScottK: weird... I'm unable to trigger script failure with version in hardy-release. I'll subscribe myself to the bug and perform a deeper check later this evening when I come back home (in about three hours).
<ScottK> DktrKranz: OK.  Thanks.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: You've never had that package set up before have you?
<DktrKranz> no, clean hardy box
<ScottK> Odd.
<ScottK> Thanks for looking into it.
<DktrKranz> Indeed, but this is probably due to some packages which are missing, my VM is very lightweight
<DktrKranz> it's not a default setup, I'll check with a common one at home
<ScottK> Thanks
 * ScottK has to use some Windows only teleconference service today.
 * ScottK allowed 2 hours to get his Windows install updated and set up (haven't booted it in months)
<lukehasnoname> Awethome Scottk
<ScottK> It may not have been enough.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: run windowsupdate, then. It may blow up in 14 seconds... 13... 12... ;)
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I've done that.  3 reboots later I think I'm up to date.
<lukehasnoname> I used Vista on Saturday to play Dawn of War and Counter Strike... It reminded me of a few complaints I have about Ubuntu's global hotkeys.
<DktrKranz> "reboot after renaming files", good upgrade mechanism :)
<lukehasnoname> But in the middle of a round of DoW it shut down for updates >_<
<ScottK> lukehasnoname: I haven't used Windows in years.  It's only because I haven't gotten around to killing the Windows partition this laptop came with that I even have it at all.
<tseliot> ï»¿ScottK: I'm sorry for you ;)
<lukehasnoname> TSEliot, could you look up on the screen a few messages back for my question?
<ScottK> Client is paying, so we use his platform of choice ....
<tseliot> ScottK: ah, ok
<tseliot> ï»¿lukehasnoname: yes, the stuff in -proposed has to be tested before it can enter the stable repository
<sistpoty> lol, so getmailssh uses bugs, but doesn't use code. tststs. https://launchpad.net/getmailssh... "hm, I put these 5 bugs together into a new cool project"
<Xand3r> now my package is uploaded, i am asking now vor a review, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=screenie-qt
<lukehasnoname> tseliot: One last thing: I'll have to look at what version the current nvidia-glx-new is based on,but I'm not sure if the problem was "no avilable driver for 8800M" or "Jockey didn't detect my card correctly". I'd think the former is true, but I don't know. Thanks for pointing to that link, though.
<directhex> nvidia-glx-new in hardy has the 169.x driver
<directhex> which misses support for about 20 devices
<directhex> envy-ng gives access to the 173.x driver
<lukehasnoname> mmk
<tseliot> ï»¿lukehasnoname: Jokey's compatibility list of cards is based on the module of the driver. If for example driver 169.12 doesn't support your card (geforce 8800) then Jockey will say that it can't find a driver for your card.
<lukehasnoname> tseliot: that's what threw me though. IIRC, when I first tried Hardy, it said that it installed and enabled restricted nvidia drivers. However, upon restart, No 3d support was available and my res was stuck at 800x600. I then couldn't disable the driver in jockey.
<tseliot> ï»¿lukehasnoname: I think that driver 169.12 has a few card ids which are not really supported. This is why (I guess) Jockey let you install the nvidia driver the first time. Of course the driver didn't work but I would like to see why Jockey didn't enable you to remove the driver.
<tseliot> ï»¿lukehasnoname: I haven't looked at Jockey yet, however I have promised pitti that I will help him with this kind of stuff.
<lukehasnoname> tseliot: I don't know. When I clicked the "Enable" button to uncheck it, nothing happened. I don't know; I'm fairly sure we're right about the 8800M just being wrongly identified by the driver.
<lukehasnoname> and hopefully (probably) 173 will fix it. After all, in 173, 9500M drivers are present, so I'd assume 8 series mobile would be.
<tseliot> ï»¿lukehasnoname: yes, that should fix it
<directhex> tseliot gets to do it all again with 177.x soon, what with the geforce gtx 280/260 reviews appearing
<tseliot> ï»¿directhex: that would require the introduction of a new flavour. I'll make sure that Jockey can handle this properly too.
<directhex> if you're lucky, i might have a copy of the readme for 177.x, which would have a compat list. it's not a remotely final version though
<directhex> or not, it seems they haven't updated the readme yet
<tseliot> ï»¿directhex: each driver will have its own package e.g. nvidia-modalias, nvidia-legacy-71xx-modalias, etc. which will contain the pci ids for the cards
<tseliot> such ids are taken from the modules
<tseliot> however we should also rely on a local (and eventually also on a remote) hardware database
<tseliot> so that for example if a driver flavour works better with a certain card (despite what a driver module reports) we can install that through Jockey
<lukehasnoname> I'm taking an A+ practice exam, and I think one of their questions is poorly worded.
<lukehasnoname> It asserts that laptops generate more heat than desktops. I would say that they generate LESS heat, but dissipating it is more of a challenge.
<directhex> most exams like that are poor
<Pici> lukehasnoname: Thats not really on topic for here, perhaps ##hardware would be a better place
<directhex> i can state, hand on heart, 100%, that a laptop does not & will not generate more heat than a desktop
<directhex> and that's also true
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lukehasnoname> yo yo yo
<Pici> boo?
<norsetto> bleah
<Pici> oh, I'm in the wrong channel ;)
<bddebian> Heh :)
<bddebian> Yeah, I try to scare the bugs away every morning :)
<nhandler> I'm trying to submit a patch I made to Debian. I was trying to use 'submittodebian'. However, I always get this error "SMTP send failure: (110, 'Connection timed out')". Does anyone have any idea on how to fix this?
<\sh> cu later...tonight for the SRU meeting at 21 UTC
 * lukehasnoname waves
<persia> nhandler: I tend to have limited success with that script.  You might try mailing the BTS directly.
<nhandler> persia: This is the first patch I am submitting to debian. That is why I was trying to use submittodebian. I guess I'll try doing it manually.
<geser> Laney: you can have the vegastrike merge
<geser> nhandler: I use reportbug when I need to file new bugs in Debian (to attach patches)
<nhandler> geser, Doesn't submittodebian use reportbug?
<geser> I don't know
<neurobuntu> can you tell a deb to run ldconfig after it installs itself?
<persia> neurobuntu: Yes, just put the call in the postinst.
<neurobuntu> ok thanks
<persia> Be warned that lconfig is wrapped to run once at the conclusion of relevant installations: it is not safe to depend on having run ldconfig later in the postinst.
<neurobuntu> sorry can you explain that a bit?
<nhandler> When I submit a patch to Debian, should I include the change to the Maintainer field to make it comply with the DebianMaintainerField-Specification in the debdiff?
<DktrKranz> nhandler: no. It is a Ubuntu specific change, Debian guys are not interested about our policy.
<neurobuntu> when I run debuild to finally build my .deb I keep getting the following error: dpkg-genchanges: error: badly formed line in files list file, line 1
<neurobuntu>       I get this error even when I delete file from debian/  does anybody know what this error means or how to fix it?
<\sh> re
<lukehasnoname> http://xkcd.com/416/ netcracker 0.0.2-0ubuntu1 heh
<afflux> hi
<afflux> bug 199600 seems to have been approved for SRU. Who is going to upload the fix to -proposed? Should I prepare a new debdiff and ask for sponsoring?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 199600 in aptoncd "aptoncd crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199600
<DktrKranz> afflux, I'll have a look at it shortly
<afflux> thanks
<DktrKranz> ScottK, dkim-milter verified and tagged accordingly.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<DktrKranz> my pleasure
<DktrKranz> afflux, I'm testing aptoncd. Since there's no hardy-proposed debdiff, I'll mangle intrepid one, I guess changes are the same.
<DktrKranz> afflux, ACKed and sponsored. Thanks.
<norsetto> DktrKranz aka Mr. motu-sru
<ScottK> Meeting in 7 minutes, right?
<DktrKranz> norsetto, not really... just one of them :)
<DktrKranz> ScottK, wasn't it in a hour?
<ScottK> Actually I think it is.
 * LaserJock moves for a vote on ScottK's proposal :-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks.
<LaserJock> ScottK: the SRU meeting is in 1hr?
<ScottK> Yes
<LaserJock> k, I think I'll pop in
<ryanakca> How can I use sbuild in conjunction with svn-buildpackage?
<LaserJock> ryanakca: I think you probably need to tweak the svn-buildpackage builder variable
<highvoltage> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> uh oh
<ryanakca> LaserJock: ah, yes, thanks :D
<norsetto> is there a consensus that we need a consensus?
<LaserJock> norsetto: not sure, but is there a consensus that we need a consensus to say that we need a consensus?
<norsetto> LaserJock: I consent ...
<LaserJock> norsetto: it seems we have a bit of a bootstrapping problem ;-)
<norsetto> LaserJock: time to activate the kickstart ;-)
<norsetto> LaserJock: have you heard from Daniel lately? I mean, Daniel Leidert
<LaserJock> not a lot no
<LaserJock> what's up?
<norsetto> LaserJock: tried to send him a couple of emails and saw no answers
<medo_> hello every body.
<medo_> I need to download the chroot of intrepid
<medo_> I used pbuilder create
<medo_> to create a hardy environment then ran
<medo_> pbuilder -ubdate -distribution intreoid
<ryanakca> s/intreoid/intrepid/g :)
<medo_> where I got few errors where it can't find some of the packages online
<ryanakca> oh, nevermind ;)
<medo_> am i doing something wrong
<ryanakca> What distribution do you put if your storing packaging in a VCS but aren't ready to upload the package yet? UNRELEASED?
<norsetto> medo_: why don't you just create an intrepid chroot?
<norsetto> ryanakca: yes
<ryanakca> norsetto: thanks :)
<medo_> where can I find a guide for doing that?
<medo_> sorry i'm still really new to all this
<LinuxMonkey> hi all
<norsetto> medo_: for a chroot: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot, for pbuilder: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<medo_> norsetto: thank you very much
<LaserJock> norsetto: what package did you email about?
<norsetto> LaserJock: gelemental
<Kopfgeldjaeger> medo_: the pbuilderrc stuff is somehow a bit tricky
<LaserJock> norsetto: I thought I saw some stuff on gelemental go through the debichem list
<LaserJock> norsetto: what are you looking for?
<norsetto> LaserJock: I sent him a patch to make two dbg packages for libelemental and gelemental
<LaserJock> norsetto: you could send them to the debichem list or attach them to a bug report
<LaserJock> norsetto: I'm not sure of daniel is just busy or what
<norsetto> LaserJock: don't know, the second one I asked him to tell me if he received it, so I guess he hasn't (or he is just ignoring me)
<LaserJock> I doubt he's ignoring you :-)
<afflux> DktrKranz: thanks for sponsoring ;)
<sebner> no one can ignore norsetto xD
<norsetto> sebner: must be my smell
<LinuxMonkey> lol yeah i can smell him from canada
<sebner> your tough smell that makes everybody fear you?
<LinuxMonkey> apparently my chroot doesnt like me
<DktrKranz> afflux, ;)
<LinuxMonkey> trying to set one up for intrepid and keep running into brick walls.lol
<DktrKranz> norsetto, it depends how many â¬uros you gave him to answer you
<norsetto> DktrKranz: I even gave him a pre-paid envelope for the return mail!
<Ekushey> i'm looking forward to package some fonts for ubuntu, can someone point me to a guide on it? i do not have any prior packaging experience.
<DktrKranz> norsetto, a blank one?
<norsetto> !packaging | Ekushey
<ubottu> Ekushey: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<norsetto> DktrKranz: hmmmm, now that you mention it, I think I could have forgotten to write my address on it
<LaserJock> MOTU SRU meeting now?
<TheMuso> Afaik yes.
<geser> LinuxMonkey: if you have problems to create a intrepid chroot, you could create a hardy one and upgrade it to intrepid (depending on the problems you have)
<Ekushey> norsetto, what does the pbuilder do? make binary packages?
<norsetto> Ekushey: yes
<Ekushey> norsetto, alright, thanks
<LinuxMonkey> geser I create the base ok, its when i come to install i get a whole lot of exim errors, I was told to do apt-get purge exim-config to fix my issue but it seams to have created a whole bunch of others
<norsetto> !pbuilder
<ubottu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<norsetto> !chroot
<ubottu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot use this to build 32 bit environments on a 64 bit box
<norsetto> hmmmm
<Ekushey> thanks
<norsetto> Ekushey: my duty
<Ekushey> norsetto, do you know of any guide that explains fonts packaging? the PackaginGuide looks too complicated to me!
<norsetto> Ekushey: I don't think there is one, you may want to look at another font package to see how they did it
<Ekushey> norsetto, can you point me to someone how can help on this?
<norsetto> Ekushey: your best bet is to ask here as you are doing
<Ekushey> i just want to make a deb package of 12 fonts so people can use them easily
<Ekushey> i've no clue how complicated or easy it is... i'm not a developer
<norsetto> Ekushey: for the time being, what you could do is file a [needs-packaging] bug in launchpad, adding all info needed to retrieve the fonts and their copyright and license
<LinuxMonkey> in intrepid apt installs recommends by default, is there another command i should use instead of apt-get install wget debconf devscripts gnupg nano  as per the guide?
<Ekushey> sounds good, thanks
<geser> LinuxMonkey: do you don't want the recommends installed or what's wrong with apt-get?
<LinuxMonkey> geser what happens, FRESH chroot, base installs fine, interpid,  apt-get install wget debconf devscripts gnupg nano, then get a whole bunch of errors regarding exim...
<geser> LinuxMonkey: add --no-install-recommends to you apt-get call if you don't want recommends installed
<LinuxMonkey> oh ok thanks geser, it just the recommends are broken at the moment from what i was told
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-17
<leleobhz> someone here know a document about tarball.mk on cdbs?
<emgent> hi persia, can you open tasks in Bug #240549 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240549 in fetchmail "fetchmail denial of service CVE-2008-2711" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240549
<emgent> Thanks
<persia> emgent: Yes, but it's *always* better to ask generally, rather tha poking a specific person :)
<persia> emgent: There's no nominations to approve?  What needs doing?  Which releases are affected?  Please nominate some stuff, and ask someone to approve.
<emgent> heheh ok persia sorry :P
<emgent> persia: i cant nominate it.
<emgent> ok done
<emgent> launchpad timeout first.. now work fine
<persia> emgent: Great.  Now check rmadison, and ask for approval in the right channel :)
 * persia isn't core-dev
<emgent> saw first to write debdiff
<emgent> uok sorry, and thanks :)
<leleobhz> running build_scripts
<leleobhz> creating /tmp/buildd/twitteiro-1.1/build/scripts-2.5
<leleobhz> error: Is a directory
<leleobhz> make: *** [python-build-stamp-2.5] Error 1
<leleobhz> someone can help me why this is happening?
<genii> Hello. Can anyone recommend to me some good resource for: packaging from a foreign (non Debian) source,    and: working with a previous version of (ubuntu) sources in order to update it.
<persia> genii: What are you trying to do?  Update an existing package from a new upstream source?
<genii> persia: I think that is what it amounts to. Specifically the pdfedit is at 0.3.2 currently for Hardy, want to package 0.4.1
<persia> genii: OK.  What's the current version in Debian?
<genii> unstable?
 * persia points at packages.qa.debian.org as an easy way to dig up this sort of information
<genii> Ah, thanks
<persia> Unstable typically, but if your preferred version is in experimental, that can also be interesting.
<ScottK> Like the Chinese curse.
<genii> Latest in either case in 0.4.1-1
<genii> *is
<persia> ScottK: Yes, well :)
<persia> genii: Great.  Next check the current version in Ubuntu (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pdfedit)
<genii> Can it be then backported?
<ScottK> !backports | genii
<ubottu> genii: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<persia> genii: You've jumped ahead :)  Yes, the next step is a backport: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<persia> genii: I hope you found that easier than trying to package it from scratch...
<genii> persia: 0.4.1 has not yet seemed to have made it from 8.10 to 8.04 yet through backports.
<persia> genii: Is there an open request yet?
<genii> persia: A user in #kubuntu was recommended to make one, unsure if it was done.
<genii> persia: If the scenario was only to have 0.4.1 in Hardy for myself, it would not be a large issue. The sources compile without incident. But then I embarked on a strange journey when trying to find how to package it for Launchpad.
<persia> genii: Have you looked at launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bugs ?
<genii> I will look now.
<persia> genii: Understood.  The idea is to reduce duplication of work, so everyone can share.
<persia> The difficulty is that there is a somewhat complex process involved to make sure that work isn't duplicated.
<persia> At the conclusion of your journey, you should expect that everyone who wants the updated version will be able to use it, as a result of your research.
<genii> persia: Looks like they made a request (with no reply as of yet) https://bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/240427
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240427 in pdfedit "Please backport pdfedit v0.4.1 fom intrepid to hardy" [Undecided,Invalid]
<persia> genii: OK.  I believe the next step is for someone to build the intrepid pdfedit on hardy, and report on their success.  You'll need to use pbuilder or prevu for the build.
<persia> ScottK: Would it be acceptable to use sbuild or cowbuilder for a test build?  If so, could the process page be updated?
<persia> genii: Given your previous effort to update the package, are you up for the test build?
<ScottK> persia: Yes.  The page is written primarily for non-developers, so the more accessible tools are emphasized.
<persia> ScottK: OK.  It just says "No other build methods will be accepted" in bold print, meaning I'm not likely to backport anything :)
<genii> persia: I might need to defer today, this is 14 hours now on the computer
<persia> genii: OK.  To answer your original question, the easiest thing for you to do is to download the intrepid source and compile for hardy.
 * ScottK looks at the page.
<ScottK> persia: I'm pretty sure that was meant to exclude checkinstall and friends.
<genii> persia: OK. With the pbuilder?
<persia> If you follow the backports process, and update the bug when you do so, anyone else interested in the updated pdfedit will be able to use the backport (after enough testers have confirmed it).
<persia> ScottK: I also.  I'm just being (perhaps surprisingly) pedantic.
<ScottK> Sure.
<persia> genii: pbuilder would work (as would tomorrow if you want a break).
<ScottK> I'm the last one to be critical of pedantry.
<genii> persia: I'll try tomorrow when I log in from work in about 10 hours
 * persia considers the value of lp.net/~ubuntu-pendants
<genii> persia: Should I come back here at that time?
<persia> genii: Thanks.  Good luck with it.
<persia> genii: Come back if you have questions (or just idle to see answers to other people's questions).  There's no requirement to be on IRC while you build or test pdfedit.
<nxvl> why are we talking about pedancy?
 * genii sips coffee and looks for his Advils
<persia> nxvl: pedantry :)
<nxvl> oh yes
<nxvl> just a typo
<nxvl> i'm SO tired
<bimberi> nxvl: Capital 'W' :P
<nxvl> bimberi: huh?
<persia> nxvl: more pedantry ;)
<bimberi> in Why.  Sorry, back to lurking and learning for me.
<genii> persia: OK, thanks for the tips.You'll see me tomorrow :)
<persia> genii: Probably not, as I hope to be asleep then, but someone else will be here.
<genii> Heh :)
<ScottK> persia: Fixed.
<genii> Later, gentle-people
 * ScottK goes back to ordering groceries.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.  Now if only I wanted to edit a PDF today...
<Hobbsee> ScottK: proposal++
<wgrant> ScottK: I think it's going to be a bit hard to bootstrap your new decision making process.
<persia> wgrant: How do you mean?  (specifically, where is it likely to fail)
<wgrant> persia: Well, we've got to make a decision on a new way to make decisions, which will be hard enough that it can't be made at a meeting.
<persia> wgrant: Ah, right.  I was thinking that it might be a sensible pilot of the new process to use the new process to decide if the new process should be used (mind you, I'm not sure the new process as written will be the new process, but haven't yet organised my objections)
<TheMuso> persia: I think one needs to be awake to be able to make sense of what you just said. I did, but there are that many occurrances of "new process" that it could make people's head spin. :p
<wgrant> Pfft, only 5.
<wgrant> And at least they do all refer to the same thing.
<wgrant> Except one.
<persia> Right.  Next time I'll use "foo" :)
<TheMuso> lol
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<\sh> TheMuso: bug #239719 that's a totally new upstream version, or did I miss something from the debdiff?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239719 in youtranslate "[SRU] YouTranslate! in Gutsy and Hardy doesn't work." [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239719
<TheMuso> \sh: I didn't check the version number, as I was more concerned at first with the changelog and what was changed before checking the version, so once I find something, I don't usually progress further with reading the diff.
<\sh> TheMuso: I'll talk to siegfried about it...
<TheMuso> \sh: Ok.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: I just prepared a draftt based on what we discussed yesterday: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/Draft
<AnAnt> Hello, how can I create a diff between 2 diff files ?
<persia> AnAnt: Interdiff is the program for that.  Note that it can be confused by certain classes of patches.
<persia> DktrKranz: From my reading of the meeting log, it appeared that one criticism of the current policy was that it was established by MOTU SRU.  While the draft looks reasonably clear to me, please be sure to arrange that it gets appropriate validation this time so that we don't have to question it again (and can instead discuss possible specific changes).
<AnAnt> thanks
<persia> DktrKranz: Also, it's likely worth reviewing the specific language to make sure the filtered include at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PerformingSRUVerification still works.
<DktrKranz> oh... really
<persia> Well, I presume so.  Best to have testers and developers looking at the same thing.
<dholbach> how about a universe sponsoring 5-a-day? we have a lot of good stuff waiting for upload! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-universe-sponsors
 * dholbach processed a bunch of them today
<persia> Why 5?
<dholbach> do 10 if you like :)
<Koon> 10-a-day-and-night ?
<dholbach> Koon: :-)
 * persia prefers to look at clearing the queue, but admits it's currently a bit of a mess.
<DktrKranz> do-as-much-as-you-can-a-day-but-please-more-than-five
<DktrKranz> persia: PerformingSRUVerification adjusted, thanks for noticing it
<persia> DktrKranz: Erm.  Might not want to adjust the page until the draft is applied.
<DktrKranz> persia: it takes directly from StableReleaseUpdates, not from /Draft.
<persia> Ah.  That's perfect then :)  Ignore the last.
<persia> (and it appears like it will work with /Draft cleanly as well)
<DktrKranz> I didn't check, but I guess so, since I took tokens present in both pages
<persia> DktrKranz: I had guessed you had checked, as it works so cleanly.  Lucky accident then :)
<DktrKranz> yes!
<DktrKranz> oh, this is cool: http://edos.debian.net/weather/
<persia> DktrKranz: How hard would it be to port?  Might be interesting as a means to attract attention to some of the porting architectures.
<DktrKranz> persia: it should be based on edos-debcheck, I think it doesn't require much work. I'll try to look if it's on Debian QA SVN already
<Doris> lo, i've been suggested this room for my question. when running dpkg-buildpackage on a project i get "dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for" - anyone know where this is fixed ? i have a depends line in my debian/control file.
<RAOF> Doris: Sounds like you're depending on a broken library; the library package should be shipping a .shlibs file, which tells dpkg-shlibdeps what the dependencies should be.
<DktrKranz> persia: debian weather is not online, we asked zack if he could publish it somewhere, he'll do soon. So we can look at it :)
<persia> DktrKranz: Cool.  I'm thinking it might be also interesting for the SRU crowd: watch the weather improve.  Might also be a good metric for our release-readiness as we get to that part of the cycle.
<DktrKranz> especially for lpia, since it is now an official port (if I'm not wrong)
<persia> I think lpia is in the same class as everything else on ports.ubuntu.com.
<DktrKranz> launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid states it's official
<persia> Of course, we can't quite compete with Debian (I expect the sysadmins would revolt if we tried to add that many m68k buildds)
<persia> DktrKranz: Interesting.  Last I looked there was a lot of hackery involved in lpia.  Getting that clean this cycle will be a bit of work.
<Doris> raof, the one it depends on is one of mine too, so that's fixable. thanks. :) i take it this shlibs file normally lives in the debian dir too ?
<directhex> what *IS* lpia?
<wgrant> i386 with even more added specialness.
<DktrKranz> persia: we lack real hardware to test, even if we have PPAs for test builds... but that's not enough :/
<persia> directhex: Low Power Intel Architecture.  It's things like the A110 and Atom.  The IA is essentially IA-32, but there's a couple minor differences.
<RAOF> Doris: The debian library packaging guide should give specifics.  dh_makeshlibs is probably what you want to look at.
<persia> Also, the toolchain is a little different, and optimised for a different usecase.
<wgrant> persia: Ah, so LPIA builds should be used on Atom?
<Doris> kk thanks :)
<directhex> persia, i was under the impression atom was a "normal" i386
<persia> DktrKranz: At least you can buy it now.  I have an A110 laptopishthingy
<persia> directhex: It's backwards compatible.
<directhex> persia, why give one low-power x86 its own arch, but not another?
 * DktrKranz should upgrade his hardware at some point... having a 9-year-old PC as primary box is not so cool
<persia> wgrant: For best performance, for some use cases.  One might argue that one ought use amd64 on the Intel desktop series in the same way.
<persia> directhex: How do you mean?
<wgrant> persia: Does Atom do EMT64?
<wgrant> I recall is lacked either vmx or emt64.
<persia> wgrant: Nope.
<persia> Right.
<persia> It's also hardlocked for a maximum of 1GB RAM.
<wgrant> Ow.
<persia> The A110 shares those shortcomings, but still only gets me 3-hour battery life.
<wgrant> Hopefully the post-945 Atom chipset will improve on that...
<persia> The poulsbo stuff?  Maybe.
<persia> .
<directhex> persia, i'm failing to find a reference for how lpia differs from x86
<directhex> persia, if we're talking minor compiler flag details whilst it'll still run i386 executables (+ vice versa) then what's special about lpia compared to other needs-special-love x86, like via's CMOV-free C3 chips?
 * wgrant is hoping to replace his home router/servery thing with something Diamondville-based at some point.
<persia> directhex: I don't have a good answer to that question.  I do know that someone in #ubuntu-mobile was talking about trying to run lpia on a Geode earlier today (but haven't heard results).
<wgrant> Geodes are remarkably slow :(
<directhex> wgrant, really? you REALLY think it's remarkable? i'd say it's depressingly expected, personally
<persia> wgrant: Well, depends on your definition.  I've some slower processors around running linux if you want to have a comparison...
<wgrant> persia: ARMs, or some old x86?
<persia> wgrant: low-clock ARMs.  Somewhere I have an old 486DX/50 tablet, but I've not tried to load Ubuntu on it.
<wgrant> The oldest thing I've run Linux on is our 486DX/50 laptop, and that was about 8 years ago.
<directhex> i ran redhat on a cyrix dx2/66 once. the experience made me swear off linux for about 5 years
<wgrant> Actually, I might have installed something on our Cyrix 40MHz desktop before that, but I forget...
<persia> wgrant: Well, if you want to talk about history, I'll be able to trot out some ancient examples.
<persia> Bes current is the H340, which I believe is a 50MHz ARM
<persia> s/Bes/Slowest/
<directhex> linux on mp3 players isn't a good thing
<persia> directhex: Why not?  How is it different than linux anywhere else?
<persia> Admittedly, 320x240 isn't much space, and input is limited, but...
<directhex> persia, my player shipped with a terrible linux-based firmware. rockbox was a vast improvement
<persia> directhex: Isn't rockbox linux?
<directhex> and the h3xx series have a <=140mhz coldfire chip. never running at that speed though
<directhex> persia, absolutely not. it's their own kernel
<persia> Aha!
 * persia is multiply enlightened, and clearly ought uninstall linux from that machine.
<directhex> persia, http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxKernel
<lionel> hi sylvaing :)
<sylvaing> hi
<sylvaing> lionel, ;-)
<Riddell> slomo_: you need to attach the debdiff to bug 239317
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239317 in thoggen "GST-Plugin Prevents use with Region 1 DVDs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239317
<slomo_> Riddell: done
<Riddell> now poke motu-sru :)
<Riddell> superm1: coreavc, a codec package without a codec?
<Riddell> superm1: "On Debian & Ubuntu systems, a complete copy of the LGPL v2 can be found under /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2"  bad copy and paste?
<Riddell> superm1: is there anything from upstream which indicates the source is GPL?
<Riddell> superm1: are the patches for mplayer and xine used?  if not how does this package get used?
<directhex> Riddell, is it a debconf-powered package, like quake2-data or msttcorefonts?
<Riddell> directhex: doesn't seem to be
<Laney> I'm getting a FTBFS when attempting to build the vegastrike package from sid. Builds fine on sid/hardy pbuilders but not in an intrepid one. Error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20831/
<directhex> pythontastic
<Laney> Quite
<Laney> Any insights appreciated ;)
<directhex> don't look at me, i handle monoish things
<ScottK> Laney: I guess I'd be looking at any Ubuntu differences in boost to see if anything looked like a likely culprit.
<Laney> ScottK: I've looked at boost, and the same version is in Intrepid and Hardy.
<Laney> (builds fine in Hardy)
<ScottK> Oh.
 * ScottK dunno then.
 * ScottK would guess somehow the new compiler flags are screwing with you, but has no idea how.
<geser> Laney: have you compared the version of boost-python (or how the package is called) in intrepid and sid?
<Laney> geser: sid has -11 and intrepid has -4ubuntu3. But good idea, I'll check the BST
<Laney> BTS
<RAOF> Laney: I'm getting the same FTBFS with Miro, but I'm yet to really investimigate.
<geser> Laney: you might try if using the boost packages from Debian unstable inside your pbuilder helps (if they're installable), so you might know if you need to get boost merged first
<Laney> RAOF: I'll let you know if I find anything out
<Laney> geser: Will do, thanks
<luisbg> ahhhh
<luisbg> oops, wrong window
<Laney> RAOF: Debian bug #468061 looks promising. Building boost ATM to test.
<ubottu> Debian bug 468061 in libboost-date-time-dev "libboost-date-time-dev: Breaks compilation of deluge-torrent with g++-4.3" [Important,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/468061
<norsetto> heya heya
<persia> Hurrah!  norsetto's here.  Everything will now be done in the next six hours :)
<gaspa> persia: are you still awake?
<gaspa> :D
<norsetto> persia: can I share your drink? Seems powerful
<persia> gaspa: Yes.  I've a late meeting tonight.  Tuesdays and Thursdays are the days I'm most likely to be around late.
 * gaspa write down this sentence..
<gaspa> persia: about nbs. you said that packages.u.c isn't reliable for that. What should i use instead, in your opinion?
<norsetto> gaspa: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/
<persia> gaspa: The rmadison interface is fairly reliable.  If you can't get that to work, you could ask LP, but there's no good API.
<gaspa> norsetto: yes, that's ok.... but i need sourcename, and some other infos.
<gaspa> persia: ok, i'll take a look
<persia> gaspa: You could also pull a packages file, but you'd need to pull for each architecture, which makes it a bit messy.
<gaspa> i see.
<persia> gaspa: Hmm.  Looking again, it seems that rmadison doesn't support ports.ubuntu.com.  If you could figure out how what is required, it'd be nifty (although only as an optional switch)
<geser> what about the output of "apt-cache madison <pkg>"? it also lists the source package name (if one has a deb-src line)
<gaspa> geser: I don't want to depend totally on local sources.list. apt-cache could be a first approach to speed up the process. but i need also a static place(like packages.u.c, but more updated) where get infos.
<gaspa> for example, now, i do a local request to get sourcename, and if there isn't in apt-cache output, i fall back to packages.u.c
<geser> gaspa: what about wget the Sources.gz from archive.u.c and use grep-dctrl on it? or do you want additional dependencies for the script neither?
<gaspa> geser: not now... yes, it could be fine archive.u.c...
<gaspa> at least i could try and see if it's not too slow.
<geser> gaspa: as a.u.c is only updated hourly, you could refetch the Sources.gz only if they're missing or older than one hour
<gaspa> well... the nbs get refreshed every 6 hours, so a more fine timing is pretty unusefull.
<gaspa> geser, persia: just for curiosity, why 6 hours?
<persia> gaspa: That's the cron configuration for the script that generates them.
<norsetto> gaspa: whats your idea for the nbs?
<gaspa> norsetto: using a inverse approach, looking the package that depends on them... 'cause they're the ones that  should be fixed.
<gaspa> norsetto: http://iogaspa.altervista.org/nbs/reversenbs.xml
<gaspa> persia: ok, i meant if there was a _particular_ reason... but don't mind. :) just curiosity
<persia> gaspa: Well, it used to be when we bothered the maintainer, so it went into daily cron.  Then someone in Australia pointed out that running it at the beginning of the European workday wasn't ideal for their workflow, so it moved to 6 hours.
<gaspa> :D
<persia> If there are enough people chasing it quickly enough to justify more frequency, it could be arranged to be as often as hourly, but currently there isn't much value gained.
<gaspa> i agree.
<gaspa> norsetto: given your question, now i want feedback from you.
 * norsetto gives feedback to gaspa
 * gaspa gives thanks to norsetto
<Laney> RAOF and geser: Updating to the sid version of boost fixed the FTBFS. Thanks for your help.
<Laney> (I wonder if it's worth me doing the merge)
<geser> Laney: IMHO it doesn't make much sense to sync vegastrike now if it's know it will FTBFS until boost gets merged
<amikrop> If you package your Python application as a .deb package with debhelper, then you don't need a setup.py, right?
<amikrop> I mean, packaging with debhelper makes setup.py (and distutils) obsolete?
<geser> amikrop: not really, debhelper only helps you with common task during package building but it doesn't make distutils obsolete
<amikrop> geser: How setup.py (distutils) could be combined with debhelper?
<ScottK> amikrop: In your build rule call python setup.py build
<geser> isn't calling setup.py the equivalent of make install for a C program?
<ScottK> amikrop: In your install rule call python setup.py intall (and then there's an option to tell it where to install).
<ScottK> geser: Pretty much.
<persia> geser: Well, "setup.py build" is "make all", and "setup.py install" is "make install".
 * persia notes that make does more than C
<amikrop> ScottK, geser: Aha. Right.
<geser> amikrop: if you don't need something special, package a python using distutils with cdbs should be quite easy
<amikrop> I see.
<ScottK> amikrop: If you want to use debhelper, stepic is a reasonable example.
<amikrop> ScottK: What is "stepic"?
<Laney> geser: I meant the boost merge
<ScottK> amikrop: It's a python package that uses debhelper and distutils.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/stepic
<amikrop> ScottK: Cool, thanks.
<amikrop> ScottK: Actually, how I get the whole dir (with debian/ inside)?
<ScottK> apt-get source stepic or dget https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/stepic/0.3-1/+files/stepic_0.3-1.dsc 0 I'd recommend the later if you don't have intrepid sources in your sources.list
<amikrop> ScottK: Actually, if I apply the .diff to .orig.tar.gz will I have the result?
<ScottK> If you have the source package and you want to unpack it, the best way to do it is dpkg-source -x filename.dsc
<cyberix> What is the compat file for?
<ScottK> I should have said dget -x above. That would have unpacked it too.
<persia> cyberix: It specifies the lowest major version of debhelper with which the package is compatible
<ScottK> cyberix: It says what Debian packaging compatibility level the package supports.  It's roughly equivalent to the major version number of debhelper needed to build the package.
<nxvl> dholbach: i show your video on Friday before starting :D it was kewl
<cyberix> So why isn't build-dep enough?
<amikrop> ScottK: OK, thanks.
<ScottK> cyberix: Because using debhelper isn't actually required.  Almost everyone does, but there are other ways to do it.
<persia> cyberix: Also because you might build-dep on debhelper 6 for some specific feature, but still have your debian/rules in debhelper 4 format (assuming you are sufficiently lazy, or just doing a quick patch to a package)
<POX_> .oO( ScottK is already in T&S )
<ScottK> POX_: I have also had to work on Manoj's packages, so I know debhelper isn't a requirement.
<POX_> :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15377022/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.multisync0.90_0.92.0~svn355-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz  <-- looks like a Dependency problem, right? The package builds fine in my pbuilder so I guess it was a temporary problem
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: Maybe.  Is your pbuilder up-to-date?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, in fact it doesn't work in my pbuilder
<Kopfgeldjaeger> It worked before my pbuilder update... so there's a problem with an update
<norsetto> POX_: thanks for uploading pyelemental again
<POX_> norsetto: I've changed debian/copyright a little bit before uploading
<norsetto> POX_: ok, I didn't see that
<cyberix> I have no idea, if my package would work with debhelper earlier than 5
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<norsetto> geser: Sie moechten Ihre Zeit fuer Ihr Vermoegen anwenden?
<norsetto> geser: (no idea what that means)
 * norsetto now also receives spam in german and russian
 * jpds doesn't know the last two words in that sentence
<apachelogger> actually that sentence is pretty wrong
<Hobbsee> norsetto: they want to use your time for your fortune.
<apachelogger> grammarwise
<Hobbsee> apparently.
<Hobbsee> apachelogger: that's what i thought, too.
<norsetto> he, not only german spam, but also wrong german spam:-)
<sebner> rofl
<sebner> norsetto: show the wrong german spam :P
<norsetto> well, I spare you all the rest of the email
<sebner> norsetto: forwand it to me =)
<apachelogger> hm
<apachelogger> thinking about it
<norsetto> sebner: you gonna get it anyhow, its spamming a whole bunch of ubuntu.com addresses
<apachelogger> I think sebner is a mail address aggregator for spamm0rs :P
 * sebner hides. they discovered his secret. He is the spamking and uses his adress/contacts to spam the whole world xD
<cyberix> norsetto: I just fixed the issues in mi2svg
<norsetto> cyberix: good, thanks
<superm1> Riddell, its a codec wrapper
<superm1> Riddell, like how wine is a windows binary loader
<superm1> Riddell, the upstream website indicates it's GPL
<superm1> Riddell, but its not in their .orig.tar.gz
<superm1> it's on code.google.com
<superm1> i filed a bug with them to include the GPL with orig.tar.gz
<superm1> which should be documented in the debian/rules part that pulls it
<cyberix> norsetto: no problem, please point out any further problems
<superm1> Riddell, and that -dev package is intended to be built against.  after this gets pulled in i'll get patches set up appropriately for the other packages that can use it
<directhex> superm1, you planning on patching myth et al with coreavc support then?
<superm1> directhex, well i'm going to provide two libmyth-0.21's
<superm1> one with coreavc support
<superm1> one w/o
<superm1> since upstream hasn't made it conditional to include it yet
<superm1> the build process for doing it like this is a little annoying now
<superm1> but i guess stuarta will have it as an option for 0.22
<lukehasnoname_> join #freebsd
<lukehasnoname_> er
<Ekushey> i tried to upload a fonts package to my PPA, and i got the following message: Rejected: Unable to find distroseries: unstable
<sebner> Ekushey: use intrepid instead of unstable in your changelog
<wasabi> Trying to use dpkg triggers. Figured out that I need a packages .triggers file. However, where do I put the action for the trigger?
<wasabi> in the postinst or preinst?
<Ekushey> sebner, so i'll just have to replace unstable to intrepid and rebuild the package? is that all?
<sebner> Ekushey: yep
<Ekushey> thanks sebner
<sebner> np
<genii> Hello. I was here yesterday, getting some insight into the backport process. In this case pdfedit current version in 8.10 back to 8.04. It was suggested to compile the Intrepid sources with pbuilder and test. I have the sources but am not certain what arguments to pass to pbuilder at this point.
 * genii puts on a pot of coffee
<Laney> genii: You can build the intrepid version using prevu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Prevu
<genii> Laney: For Hardy?
<Laney> genii: Yeah
 * genii reads the wiki
<cody-somerville> How does prevu differ from using pbuilder?
<genii> Hm. Prevu is giving me "/home/user.pbuilderrc does not exist"  ... will this cause any issue?
<ScottK> genii: No.
<genii> ScottK: OK
<ScottK> cody-somerville: prevu is a simplified wrapper around pbuilder for non-developers to test backports.
<ScottK> genii: That just means the default config in /etc gets used.
<sebner> !prevu =)
<ubottu> Factoid prevu =) not found
<sebner> !prevu
<ubottu> prevu is an automated, personal backporting utility. Check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Prevu for more details
<sebner> ha
<genii> If I have already a deb-src for Intrepid in my sources will it get confused?
<ScottK> It shouldn't.
<genii> OK
<\sh> moins ScottK
<ScottK> heya \sh.
<wasabi> So how in the world do I accomplish this:  binary packageA in a source package containing 10 packages needs to be triggered when any of the other binary packages change.
<wasabi> I've created debian/triggers, and set it to activate foo-update
<wasabi> and debian/packagea.triggers, and insured it was set to interest foo-update
<wasabi> And implemented code in packagea.postinst that detects if $1 is triggered, and does work.
<wasabi> The code in packagea is never executed, as far as I can tell, and nothing even tries to make it be.
<wasabi> And even if I slap it around enouhg, it does evenentually run the triggers.... but BEFORE some dependcies have been set up
<Ekushey> when i try to apt-get install a package that i built, i get the "WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!" message. how do i remove it?
<directhex> Ekushey, have a signed repository, e.g. don't try to access your PPA directly
<Ekushey> directhex, i'm very new to this, this is the first package that i uploaded to my PPA
<Ekushey> downloading anything from PPA will give this warning?
<directhex> Ekushey, PPA archives aren't signed. you need to mirror them elsewhere (and sign them in the process) to avoid the problem
<Ekushey> ok, thanks... i need to study more about it
<Ekushey> is there a way i can delete the amd64 build of a package from my PPA?
<directhex> i don't think so. you can delete the entire source package & all binaries, though
<Ekushey> directhex, so what i can do is change "Architecture: any" to "Architecture: i368" on the control file, rebuild and reupload to PPA?
<directhex> yeah, that'd work. why're you hatin' on amd64 though? do real people really use i386 in this day & age?
<Ekushey> directhex, this is the actual problem: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bd/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=failed
<Ekushey> amd64 and lpia build failed, only i386 build worked
<directhex> why is a font architecturey? O_o
<directhex> surely ttf files are arch independent?
<Ekushey> should be :)
<directhex> "any" and "all" aren't the same thing
<laga> shouldn't it say "Architecture: all" so it's arch-independent?
<laga> yeah
<directhex> "all" means a single _all.deb
<directhex> "any" means a _i386.deb, _amd64.deb, _arm.deb and so on
<Ekushey> oh... so that is the mistake that i did
<Ekushey> i'm rebuilding it then
<Ekushey> should i delete the current package from my ppa, or will it update itself when i reupload
 * Ekushey is a 1-day old packager ;)
<ScottK> Increment the revision number and upload again will take care of it.
<Ekushey> ScottK, i add it on the changelog?
<ScottK> Yes.  Add a new debian/changelog entry with a higher revision number.
<ScottK> Use dch -i to get the initial template for the entry.
<Ekushey> ScottK, the version number was 0.1-1, the new one is 0.1-1ubuntu1. is that OK?
<ScottK> Ekushey: I'd suggest 0.1-1ubuntu1~ppa1
<ScottK> That way you can increment as needed (the ppaX part) without affecting 'real' revision numbers.
<Ekushey> alright, thanks!
<directhex> i'd suggest something alphabetically earlier than "ppa"
<directhex> if you're building packages against hardy, then you want something alphabetically earlier than "hardy", to ensure official backport packages will supercede your ppa (e.g. an official backport of foopackage 0.3-2ubuntu1 to hardy will be numbered 0.3-2ubuntu1~hardy1)
<Ekushey> directhex, so what should i put?
<Ekushey> is there any wikipage explaining the versioning issues?
 * ScottK agrees with directhex actually.
<ScottK> I actually use Xubuntu1~release1~ppa1
<ScottK> Not a simple one.
<Ekushey> so i should make it like 0.1-1ubuntu1~hardy1~ppa1?
<ScottK> Yes.  That's better than my initial suggestion.
<mario_limonciell> well it really depends on when you intend the package to be in use i think
<Ekushey> alright, reuploading :)
<mario_limonciell> there are cases that you wouldn't want the backport to supercede your PPA
<mario_limonciell> say if you were putting in a patch that wouldn't ever show up in a backport necessarily
<YokoZar> Hooray, Wine 1.0 in intrepid now
<YokoZar> Now...what's the process for getting it into hardy backports?
<mario_limonciell> YokoZar, are you the person regularly working on getting wine in Ubuntu?
<mario_limonciell> if so, i've got a question for you
<YokoZar> mario_limonciell: Yes I am
<mario_limonciell> YokoZar, coreavc is leveraging some code from wine from the looks of it.  I'm not sure how old the code is, but it currently fails on amd64.  I was wondering if you glanced over the build log if the failures look similar to old wine failures on amd64 to you.  If so, then I can try to update the code in there and resubmit it upstream to the coreavc project
<mario_limonciell> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15342144/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.coreavc_0.1~svn63-0ubuntu1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<mario_limonciell> YokoZar, regarding your question though, files a bug against the hardy-backports project on launchpad
<YokoZar> mario_limonciell: Yeah I just found that part on the wiki :)
 * YokoZar looks at build log
<YokoZar> mario_limonciell: I'm a bit curious as to what kind of code it is.  Wine only builds experimentally in 64-bit mode; the amd64 package is built by compiling in 32 bit mode and linking with 32 bit libraries (mostly in ia32-libs)
<mario_limonciell> YokoZar, oh, i had thought that wine had started to build in 64 bit mode stably since it was showing up on amd64.  That answers the question
<mario_limonciell> i'll have to add in a similar workaround for this then for now
<mario_limonciell> YokoZar, if you are curious to look over the code, its sitting in intrepid NEW right now or on the ~mythbuntu PPA
<sistpoty> hi folks
<geser> Hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi geser
 * lukehasnoname hi
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<norsetto> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi norsetto
<sistpoty> norsetto: doko merged atlas yesterday \o/
<norsetto> sistpoty: \o/ alleluja!
<norsetto> sistpoty: argh, still fails on i386
<sistpoty> :(
<cyberix> norsetto: Did you check my changes?
<norsetto> cyberix: no
<cyberix> norsetto: Should I encourage sistpoty to look at it or do you still want to complain :-D
<cyberix> Well revu day comming tomorrow
<cyberix> I could also ask some third guy, if you are getting tired with the package :-)
<norsetto> cyberix: is there anything left to complain about!?
<cyberix> Well I think fixed everything you brought up so far
<medo> hello
<medo> I used apt-get into chroot in intrepid and I got exit with error code one.
<medo> does that mean my setting for the chroot is wrong
<medo> I have followed the steps exactly as in the wiki
<geser> medo: what kind of error?
<medo> syntax error
<medo> in file statoverride
<medo> I couldn't file this file anywhere
<medo> ??
<cyberix> How do you package software that expects to find all it's files in the same directory?
<medo> this is the exact output I get "dpkg: syntax error: unknown group `Debian-exim' in statoverride file"
<geser> cyberix: would a wrapper work, which cd into the correct dir and calls then the real binary?
<cyberix> I suppose it is not hard to make it work
<cyberix> I'm just wondering how this fits in with rest of the system
<medo> geser: I'm using to install apt-utils so I can use apt-get -install after that
<medo> I'm not sure if this would help though
<pochu> any lists.tauware.de admin around?
<Laney> geser: Do you have any objection to me merging gtkglarea and/or guidedog?
<geser> Laney: no, as I don't have time to do merges myself, all my open merges are free to take (but a notification would be nice to know that someone is working on it)
<Laney> geser: Ah, that's good to know. I always put a comment on DaD anyway so you'll know if I pick one up.
<lukehasnoname> Will Gnome 2.24 make it into Intrepid? It's due out mid Sept.
<geser> lukehasnoname: yes, at least it was so in the past that the current gnome version made it into the soon to be released Ubuntu version
<geser> lukehasnoname: interpid has already the first gnome 2.23 devel packages
<medo> geser: thanks a lot I figured it out. I misconfigured the file
<pochu> sistpoty: do you have admin access to mailman on tauware.de? I have issues unsubscribing from a list
<norsetto> cyberix: there is something funky with your translations
<pochu> hey norsetto, how are you?
<norsetto> Hola pochu!
<pochu> sistpoty: I'm leaving for dinner, if you are an admin, could you see if there's still any 'pochu@' or 'pochu27@' address subscribed? I unsubscribed @ubuntu address but keep receiving mail... TIA!
<sistpoty> pochu: sorry, don't have access to the list... siretart ^^?
<sistpoty> pochu: (or you could ask on #ubuntuwire)
<Mez> anyone know any good debconf tutorials
<pochu> sistpoty: ok, thanks, I'll ask there
<mathiaz> Mez: try http://www.fifi.org/doc/debconf-doc/tutorial.html
<Mez> mathiaz, thanks - thats the one I found
<siretart> pochu: the mailman on tauware will be shut down soon
<pochu> siretart: and that list moved to ubuntuwire?
<pochu> siretart: if so, will you keep the subscribers list?
<siretart> pochu: yes, I copied the complete config over to ubuntuwire
<siretart> including subscriptopns
<pochu> siretart: ok, I'll keep an eye on it to see if I still have some issues. Thanks for your help
<norsetto> good night all
<jpds> g'night nor...
<LinuxMonkey> night nand
<LinuxMonkey> bah
<jpds> hehe
<LinuxMonkey> he left before i could tab it
 * jpds hugs LinuxMonkey 
<LinuxMonkey> thanks ill need it
<LinuxMonkey> im ready to pull some hairs
<jpds> LinuxMonkey: I don't recommend that. You might need them later..
<LinuxMonkey> true. trying to understand packages, how to fix my chroot to have my pgp keys and more.lol
<ScottK> LinuxMonkey: Why do you need keys in your chroot?
<LinuxMonkey> dunno im trying to follow the outdated guides in the wiki
<Falken> Hi ! France is out of the Euro2008. Too bad :( Meanwhile, I have my first package (ever) waiting for reviews ... Can I do something to make things go faster ?
<ScottK> LinuxMonkey: What wiki?
<ScottK> Falken: You're more likely to get satisfaction if you give us a link to the package on REVU.
<Falken> of course. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=flabber
<LinuxMonkey> ScottK its probably just me... probably didnt setup intrepid correctly.lol
<LinuxMonkey> ScottK: Could not find a signing program (pgp or gpg)!
<ScottK> LinuxMonkey: There's no need to sign inside a chroot.
<ScottK> You should build (and sign) your source packages and then build them in a clean environment using pbuilder, sbuild, or similar.
<LinuxMonkey> well im lost then, the guides are out of date, ill have to wait and see then, cause i really want learn this
<sistpoty> ember: around? (I'm just looking at bug #237348)
<ScottK> LinuxMonkey: What guide are you following?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237348 in wordpress "Please merge wordpress 2.5.1-4ubuntu1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237348
<LinuxMonkey> ScottK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<YokoZar> Does anyone have a Gutsy and Feisty machine around to do a real quick test for me?
<ScottK> YokoZar: Does it need to have X on it?
<ScottK> LinuxMonkey: I don't see on that wiki where it says to sign stuff inside a chroot.
<YokoZar> ScottK: Just want to see if the Wine package is installable, I imagine you dont
<YokoZar> ScottK: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wine/+archive
<ajmitch> YokoZar: making 1.0 available for us mortals?
<YokoZar> I made a small change to debian/rules that I'm not certain the build daemon would barf on (ie it might be depending on a version later than what's available in gutsy)
<ScottK> YokoZar: I'd just do that in a chroot then if I were you (pbuilder login).
<YokoZar> ScottK: Yeah I didn't set up pbuilder yet, heh
<YokoZar> I just use the ppa to build now
<YokoZar> This is the last gutsy/older package for me at the moment
<sistpoty> ajmitch: you just want it to play WoW, don't you? :P
<LinuxMonkey> lol i allready play wow on here.lol
<ajmitch> sistpoty: of course
<sistpoty> heh
<YokoZar> ajmitch: by the way, if you'd like to make 1.0 available to more mortals: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/240755
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240755 in hardy-backports "Please backport Wine 1.0 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Undecided,New]
<LinuxMonkey> ScottK: ok well i guess im lost and probably followed that guide all wrong.lol
<RainCT> If I want to backport a package that needs the cmake version from Intrepid, can I request a backport for both?
<ajmitch> YokoZar: however I'm not in any backports team :)
<YokoZar> ajmitch: still needs a confirm/triage (ie, build and test it)
<ScottK> RainCT: You can request it, but what affect would that have on other packages?
<RainCT> ScottK: that's why I ask :)
<YokoZar> RainCT: cmake is a build tool used by other packages right?
<YokoZar> It's unlikely it'd be backported in that case
<ScottK> RainCT: I'd suggest teaching the package to work with the older cmake.
<ajmitch> though cmake may be backwards compatible, backporting it may actually be safe
<Laney> Is SHELL=/bin/bash allowed in a rules file?
<ajmitch> unlike tools like automake with its 20 different versions
<ScottK> That's probably require more testing than RainCT wants to do to confirm though.
<sistpoty> Laney: yes... debian/rules is a makefile and SHELL=something that's the shell to be called from make to something
<RainCT> well, I'll ask upstream (who asked me for the backport, although I don't know them :P) if they are happy with having it in a PPA (or if they want to get it working with cmake from hardy)
<sistpoty> s/that's/sets/
<jpds> RainCT: I suggest building the whole of KDE4, just to make sure it's safe to backport
<RainCT> thanks guys :)
<Laney> sistpoty: Right, thanks. I just didn't know if it had to remain as dash or anything
<sistpoty> Laney: no, you don't as bash is in essential (if you'd use a custom shell not in (build)-essential, it'd need to be in build-depends though)
<Laney> Got it :)
<sistpoty> Laney: you might get extra points to eleminate bashism in debian/rules though (but if unsure, shell=/bin/bash seems like the most defensive solution though)
<Laney> sistpoty: Nah, I'll not bother. I'm looking into whether do do a sync or merge, and leaving it as bash lets me do a sync so it's best to keep it as is.
<ScottK> Laney: Switching to dash is a Debian release goal, so if you can resolve the bashism, it'd be a useful patch for Debian too.
<ScottK> Without knowing how hard it is, I'd suggest fixing it to use dash and then filing a bug/patch with Debian.
<Laney> ScottK: Someone already sent a fixed (to use dash) rules file to a bug on the BTS as there was an error with the bash version, but he chose to just fix the bug and keep it on bash. So there is a patch already.
<sistpoty> ScottK: there's no bashism, if SHELL=/bin/bash ;)
<ScottK> sistpoty: That just makes the bashism work.
<sistpoty> or rather its completely allowed to use a bashism then
<sistpoty> heh
<ScottK> Sure, but it's still not idea.
<ScottK> idea/ideal
<sistpoty> hm... not too sure. for debian alone, it's not much of a big deal. as upstream who deals with building on other unices (like *bsd) as well, there is (as bash != bash there :()
<Laney> Is this enough of a deal to stop me requesting a sync?
<Laney> (Given that the maintainer is aware)
<sistpoty> Laney: imo no, but you could still write a patch and forward it to DBTS ;)
<Laney> sistpoty: It already exists, as I said above!
<Laney> I'd give you a link but the bts isn't responding for me atm
<sistpoty> Laney: heh, then just request a sync
<Laney> sistpoty: Good, I will
<Laney> Thanks :)
<sistpoty> np
<Laney> So while I wait for that to testbuild, can someone shed some light on why bug #181225 was invalidated? It seems sensible to me.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 181225 in wmmisc "Please sync wmmisc 1.1-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181225
<bobbo> can someone post their output of "sudo apt-get build-dep audacious" quickly?
<Laney> bobbo: On Hardy?
<bobbo> Laney: yeah
<i4x> hugs 4 every1!!
<Laney> bobbo: See notice!
<sistpoty> Laney: seems to be some fallout of the Kmos debate back then... you might want to check if it's still valid or not
<Laney> sistpoty: It is
<sistpoty> Laney: then go and set it back to a sane state ;)
<Laney> Righto
<ScottK> \sh: I hope you're OK with the latest claws-mail upload.
<bdmurray> I'm curious if something is packagable.  I'm uncertain about the firmware parts involved.
<bdmurray> It's the R5u870 driver.
<ScottK> Do you have a link to the relevant license text?
<ScottK> bdmurray: ^^^
<bdmurray> ScottK: the tarball is linked to at http://wiki.mediati.org/Installation
<sistpoty> bdmurray: ugh, the firmware seems to be extracted right out of the windows driver, so I doubt it's easily redistributable
<sistpoty> bdmurray: at least not via GPL as advertised in COPYING
<bdmurray> sistpoty: Okay, that is what I had thought but wasn't certain.
<ScottK> sistpoty: Copied or reverse engineered?
<bdmurray> It looks like it might be possible to reverse engineer it
<bdmurray> Oh, maybe not.
<sistpoty> ScottK, bdmurray: according to recode-fw.scm extracted from the windows driver
<sistpoty> (nontheless, even if reverse engenieered, it would lack the source code for gpl-2)
<sistpoty> bdmurray: however it might be possible if the firmware could be shipped separately (or downloaded by maintainer scripts) from the driver
<ScottK> However I'd be reluctant to do that with something that claimed to be GPL, but wasn't on the face of it.
<bdmurray> There is a launchpad bug report, if we could get to it ;-), about this particular driver and packaging it.
 * ScottK suggests invalid as an appropriate status.
<bdmurray> Maybe "Won't Fix" because of the current way it stands?
<sistpoty> ScottK: well, the driver itself looks fine (at least each file has gpl headers). The only problem I see is that the firmware would need to get downloaded and extracted from the windows driver on package install (or by a package in multiverse, depending on the license of the windows driver)
 * sistpoty goes to bed... gn8 everyone
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-18
<genii> There seems no manpage for prevu. Is there some documentation available?
<genii> (I have already the wiki bookmarked)
<Ekushey> what is the procedure of getting a package into the repo? any wiki pages?
<Flannel> Ekushey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing#head-f4c6048b1531f4e4fe48f096350ea435d40ed9f5 may help
<Ekushey> thanks Flannel
<arbir> hello
<arbir> anybody here ?
<persia> arbir: Indeed.  Welcome.
<arbir> hi persia
<arbir> i was redirected here from the ubuntu channel
<arbir> i needed to know, how i can update my VLC to the latest version ?
<persia> OK.  What was the query that resulted in the redirect?
<arbir> i have ubuntu 8.x
<persia> arbir: What do you mean by "latest version"?
<arbir> ï»¿we are at 0.8.6e while the latest is 0.8.6h
<persia> Most recent version upstream?  Most recent version packaged?  Most recent version in the development repos?  Most recent version released?
<persia> Ah.  OK.  Have you looked at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc
<Flannel> persia: He's wondering why the packaged version is still 8.6e
<arbir> well, thats too technical for me to answer :-). but i just thought i will mention it here.. sorry if i offended anybody
<arbir> hey Flannel is here :-)
<arbir> is looking at the link sent my persia
<persia> arbir: No offense.  I'm just pointing at the place where you can see which versions are in each release.
<genii> arbir: He's almost omnipresent
<persia> Typically things go first into the development release (currently intrepid), and then filter down.
<Flannel> persia: Intrepid has .6e too (at least, according to packages.ubuntu.com)
<persia> Moving things through the process of upstream -> packaged -> development release -> backports is very much a manual process.
<arbir> hmmm persia i was wondering, how come we are quite a ways behind in terms of version number
<persia> So, if someone is interested, they do it.
<arbir> persia: i see.. :-) very interesting...
<persia> arbir: Most likely because 0.8.6e was current at the time of FeatureFreeze for hardy, and nobody has updated it since.
<arbir> persia: just curious to know, if MOTU is also responsible for packaging other media players like Rythmbox etc ?
<persia> Flannel: Yes it does.  I typically walk back through the path upstream when trying to determine "Why isn't this updated" to find the point where it needs work.  LP is the first stop, then packages.qa.d.o, then possibly a packaging VCS, and then upstream.
<persia> arbir: MOTU is responsible for the state of the Universe repository: many of the people who work on packages are not MOTU.  Rhythmbox is in main, and I believe the desktop team takes care of it.
<arbir> persia.. thank you very much. i appreciate your time to answer my lilttle questions.
<persia> arbir: Thanks for asking.  There are many people who don't ask, and it's best to share ideas.
<arbir> goodnight persia. maybe goodday where you might be now :-)
<genii> persia: Of curiosity, is there some site you may know of which perhaps details someone's process of packaging? I'm trying to learn. Between prevu,dh_make,debuild and some others I'm getting frustrated. It would help to see someone elses process.
<persia> genii: Packaging is very individual, because there are lots of right ways to do it.  The wiki page presents a few options.  My opinion is that the best way to learn is to look through existing packages.
<persia> Personally, I prefer sbuild as a build tool (prevu is mostly good for backporting).  I don't like the dh_make templates.  I use debuild regularly to build source packages (`debuild -S`)
<genii> persia: Well, tedious. But anything worth learning is worth doing the hard way I suppose
<genii> (dissecting existing packages being the tedious thing)
<persia> genii: Depends on the goal.  Learning packaging is like learning to play Go: it takes a while, and at the end you only understand how much you don't know.
<persia> If one takes something like "closing bugs" as a goal, one ends up seeing lots of examples along the way.
 * genii meditates on the concpt of Go
<persia> As one learns more, one is able to generate one's own simple packages.
<persia> If one seeks only to "learn packaging", one may be able to create a package which is policy-complaint, but may not understand why the package was constructed that way.
<persia> This might impair a later attempt to "close bugs" if the packaging is sufficiently different.
<genii> From what I can tell so far, the emphasis seems to be greatly on tracking the lineage and history
<persia> Well, it's important to track lineage and history, for both social and legal reasons.  There's also a lot of interest in reducing duplication of work, so if something can be passed upstream, that is often good.
<persia> However, the core of packaging is more about creating a framework that allows users to install, upgrade, remove, and purge a given piece of software without undue impact on their computer, and in such a way that it works well for them by default.
<genii> Dependencies, etc
<genii> Is there also some standard method for postinst and so on?
<persia> Yes.  There are a number of standard postinst snippets that can be inserted by debhelper, although there is also a diverse body of lore about other ways to do things, or ways to do things that debhelper doesn't support.
<genii> Hmm.
<persia> (and I say "lore" because there is no single right answer, nor a correct interpretation, nor even any central location for such information)
<persia> genii: That's why I say it is an odd goal to "learn packaging", as it gets complex at the edges, and takes a while.  Generally it's better to jump in and do stuff: learn through practice and review of candidate patches.
<genii> OK. I guess I'll spend some more studying.
<persia> As each obstacle is encountered, ask a question (here is a good place), and use that for the next step.
<genii> persia: I've found you to be helpful each time I've had questions, and it's appreciated. I will likely return another time to bother you further :) But I require sleep before then.
<persia> genii: Sleep well.
<genii> persia: Good night
<dholbach> good morning
<cody-somerville> Morning
<\sh> moins
<superm1> woah, is there a new debian/copyright syntax that I didn't hear of?
<superm1> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/eee-applet-0805041700/eee-applet-0.2/debian/copyright
<cody-somerville> Yes, it is located here: http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
<superm1> yeah i'm just looking that over right now
<superm1> you should still be putting the short paragraph in the file though right?
<superm1> it looks like at least the example i linked to isn't properly implementing it
<Falken_> Hi ! I got a package ready to be reviewed : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=flabber
<Hobbsee> RAOF: which version of gnome do should i use for intrepid?
<wgrant> Hobbsee: gnome-terminal
<Hobbsee> wgrant: oh, is it incorporated in there now?
<cyberix> I'm lookin after sponsors for my package mi2svg. I used to have two sponsors, but then further problems were reported. I took my time fix those too. Now it should all be ok. see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mi2svg
<wgrant> Hobbsee: It has served a similar purpose for me for almost a decade now.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: er, no.
<Hobbsee> similar, yes.
<Hobbsee> the same?  no.
<wgrant> Bah.
<Hobbsee> how do i open bookmarks in the default browser, via the terminal?
<Hobbsee> how do i message a person in pidgin, from the terminal?
<wgrant> Lessee.
<wgrant> Gajim is easy - we have gajim-remote.
<wgrant> And one can open a Firefox bookmark easily in Firefox, remarkably enough.
<wgrant> Or do you want to start Firefox as well?
<Hobbsee> depends.
<wgrant> I leave my Firefox process running for weeks at a time, so I might be different.
<cody-somerville> Who are our resident X -perts :)
<cyberix> Which freeze is relevant for new Ubuntu packages comming from revu?
<cyberix> is it FeatureFreeze?
<LucidFox> cyberix> yes
<huats> morning everyone
<RAOF> Hobbsee: The PPA one should work.  Or, if you can wait until I've finished cursing first years, a sync of the soon-to-be 0.5 from Debian.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: ppa address for intrepid doesn't work
<Hobbsee> hah
<RAOF> That'd be because I haven't actually uploaded any packages to the Intrepid pocket.  Because they'll go in Debian, & get syncd.
<RAOF> The Hardy packages should build cleanly on Intrepid :P
<Hobbsee> yes, but i was avoiding attempting to do that.
<RAOF> Right.
<RAOF> The 0.5 packaging is an active TODO item; it's just that it's below "mark 350 first year exams", which is likely to take up the bulk of the next two days.
<Hobbsee> heh
<RAOF> Also, marking doesn't really leave me in a packaging mood :)
 * Hobbsee has added to the marking piles, recently :)
 * Hobbsee muhahaha
<RAOF> But if you'd like me to be snippy on IRC, now's the time!
<RAOF> Mmm, gnash.  My favourite way to accidentally cool the cache by eating all available RAM and swap.
<baron1984> gnash is the best way to watch Firefox fall over and die, should you feed it any flv
<RAOF> Oh, you're here too?
<RAOF> Heh.
<baron1984> I find it amusing that Ubuntu offer 3 flash players that the user might not even know what any of them are
<baron1984> one works, one kind of does, and one goes BOOM
<azeem> in main?
<baron1984> through ubufox as well
<baron1984> thats where the user is likely to go wrong the first time in Ubuntu
<RAOF> Gnash does'nt often go boom.
<RAOF> flashplugin-nonfree goes boom more often than gnash, in my experience :)
<baron1984> in AMD64? Yes, but it works up until that point
<RAOF> Heh.  It works _better_ on amd64.  At least there flash doesn't take firefox with it :)
 * baron1984 runs off to go compile GNASH, on the HURD
<baron1984> in my experience, swfdec is the most likely to work if you want a free software flash player
<baron1984> it can do most anything besides some streaming video sites, like ustream
<baron1984> you'll lose Chris Pirillo, I'm not sure whether to call that a regression or just good taste
<azeem> baron1984: you'd need to fix boost before compiling gnash on the Hurd
<directhex> baron1984, on amd64, none of them work. since hardy, flash has been largely worthless for me, on 4 machines
<baron1984> meh, they all work fine for me, except in Epiphany Webkit, but I suppose thats my own can of worms
<baron1984> I had been wondering why there was no installation candidate for that, so I grabbed the libpango packages out of Intrepid, then went and got Epiphany-Webkit debs out of Debian Lenny
<baron1984> They must have ditched a whole lot of debugging code from Firefox RC3 to Final
<RAOF> No?  RC3 is byte-for-byte identical to final (at least on linux and win32, IIRC).
<baron1984> RAOF: Between RC 3 and final, the typical RAM usage has gone from around 250-300 megs to maybe 100-150
<baron1984> for me anyway
<baron1984> they had to have done something
<baron1984> well, in any event, more power to them, Epiphany does most things OK, but it was starting to aggravate me
<baron1984> the preferences it does allow you to set, don't get respected later
<LucidFox> I have a story to tell about how I helped a Vista user switch to Ubuntu, and what inconveniences he faced in the process.
<LucidFox> Do you think it's worth posting on planet.ubuntu.com?
<baron1984> well, in my case, everything was a challenge because while GNOME and all that is simple enough, trying to get hardware and such to work was a nightmare
<baron1984> of course that was 4 years ago
<Laney> LucidFox: Go for it!
<LucidFox> hehehe
<baron1984> most of that has been smoothed over by now
<baron1984> Novell has been sending me emails about "This is Linux without having to chmod or chown or chroot anything"
<LucidFox> Yes, the 8.04 live CD is really slick, I was surprised myself
<baron1984> So I go and try 11 RC1 of OpenSuse, and not even the one click Nvidia drivers work
<baron1984> I went marching back over to Ubuntu, cursing them under my breath, not that Ubuntu is horrible, but because the way they advertise and fail to deliver
<baron1984> I guess Novell just wants to sell so much of their stuff they'll say anything
<baron1984> I even got downright stubborn and tried to build the Nvidia kernel modules myself, I got back into KDE and opened YAST, and it said it was still using VESA
<baron1984> I twould be neat if Ubuntu had something like this, there's a distro called NimbleX that lets you build your own custom LiveCD on their website, then download the image
<Tim20> im trying to build 2 deb packages, when running dpkg-buildpackage on the second, i get the error "dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for <lib from first deb>". i've tried making a postinst file on the first deb to run ldconfig, and i've tried making the first deb via checkinstall, but neither method worked.
<dmk> hi, I have been creating some packages and I am wanting to upload them to REVU
<jpds> dmk: would you like the keyrin synced?
<dmk> I have just added myself to the REVU Uploaders Team, so could someone re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring when they have a chance
<jpds> one mo.
<dmk> jpds - cool, thanks
<Hobbsee> baron1984: yes, it would.  feel free to implement it, and find others to help.
<jpds> dmk: Done.
<dmk> jpds, thanks :-)
<jpds> dmk: You're welcome. Happy uploading.
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Laney> lo
<rmjb> hey everyone, hey jdong
<baron1984> someone asked me why Epiphany was hardly ever the default browser in GNOME oriented distros, I said probably because it doesn't act consistently, won't let you customize it, and it'll be darned if it'll act the way you tell it to even if you hack on prefs.js or something
<baron1984> the whole application is designed to be hostile towards the user's wishes, then GNOME says that it's better because of that
<azeem> baron1984: that kind of general ranting might be more on-topic in #ubuntu-offtopic
<geser> Hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi geser
<emgent> morning
<sistpoty> hi emgent
<emgent> heya :)
<jussi01> LucidFox: you around?
<LucidFox> yes
<jussi01> LucidFox: any idea when aurora will hit hardy backports?
<LucidFox> jussi01> No idea. I only filed the backport, it will take others to approve it.
<LucidFox> Meanwhile, you can use the package on arora-browser.org.
<jussi01> LucidFox: ok, cool - thats great! thanks :)
 * jussi01 has been looking for a webkit/qt browser for ages
<jussi01> LucidFox: any really notable parts missing at this point (Im expecting yes, but wondering what they are)
<LucidFox> Well, as I said, it's minimalistic
<LucidFox> It has the basic features: tabs, history, bookmarks, cookies, download manager, and user CSS support
<jussi01> oh, so its quite useable ?
<LucidFox> But there are many areas where it's lacking
<LucidFox> For example, caching, view source, and stability
<jussi01> hrm, someone remind me of the command to rebuild kde menus?
<LucidFox> you can direct your questions to icefox on #arora
<jussi01> LucidFox: thanks. will do. Ill give it a good going over anyway, and report some bugs perhaps :)
<LucidFox> ah, bug reports are welcome
<sistpoty> cody-somerville, \sh, ScottK, jdong, TheMuso: I assume we don't want a sru for just a man page (bug #238192). Ok if I decline the nomination?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238192 in kphone "no man page for 'kphone'" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238192
<cody-somerville> hmm
<\sh> sistpoty: nope...
<\sh> sistpoty: it's a shame...but not critical ;)
<sistpoty> heh
<emgent> heya  \sh :)
<\sh> moins emgent
<cody-somerville> sistpoty, I don't think that one is worth it
<cody-somerville> sistpoty, Especially since the man page is rather sparse.
<sistpoty> ok, thanks cody-somerville and \sh
<afflux> I guess the ubuntu firefox distribution is not reflected at http://www.spreadfirefox.com/worldrecord, right?
<ScottK> sistpoty: Yes.
<baron1984> I still think that was weird, one minute Firefox is eating RAM for breakfast
<baron1984> then I get that update, and BAM, well behaved application
<LucidFox> Okay, here's my "success story": http://lucidfox.org/wp/a/393
<LimCore> hi
<LucidFox> welcome LimCore
<LimCore> how about addiging ubuntu packages for kernel.org vanilla kernels?  like say   linux-kernel.org-stable  and  linux-kernel.org-prepatch.  No ubuntu patches so  1) easy to package  2) good for people working on kernel development/testing
<Hobbsee> LimCore: try #ubuntu-kernel for kernel stuff.
<LimCore> ok
<sistpoty> Hi Hobbsee: are you up for intrepid for motu-release/could you eventually reply to the motu-release thread on ubuntu-motu?
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: i did my last exam for the semester today.  currently thinking about the release stuff.  will reply to the thread.
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: thanks!
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: the time that i have been spending on ubuntu has been dealing with irc crap.
<sistpoty> oh :/
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Hopefully that will be resolved soon enough.
<wgrant> With divine intervention.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: well, i hope so too.
<Hobbsee> but, we'll see what happens.
<cody-somerville> hehe
<baron1984> LimCore: Vanilla kernels usually bring Ubuntu down in flames, and they're rarely needed anyway
<LimCore> baron1984: then something is wrong with ubuntu... why "bring down in flames"?
<Hobbsee> LimCore: because it's going to be a royal pain to support.
<LimCore> I need to use grsecurity on ubuntu for example.   How to choose best matching kernel.org version, and how to build&install from sources, the ubuntu way (or just make make install?
<baron1984> I've tried to do it a few times, there's basically about a million things you can do wrong, most of them end up making it most of the way through booting, and then panic
<LimCore> Hobbsee: debian works fine with kernel.org ... I hope ubuntu is not worse in this respect?
<baron1984> it would create a support nightmare
<Hobbsee> LimCore: they don't explicitly support their users, when the users have gone and recompiled their kernels, last i knew.
<Hobbsee> as in, any bugs reported against it that do not happen on the debian kernels will still get marked as invalid.
<Hobbsee>  / wont fix
<wgrant> LimCore: What do we do that's so evil that we don't work with kernel.org?
<LimCore> baron1984: how many people use ubuntu's custom kernel, how many use kernel.org?  Will LKML support ubuntu's kernel or kernel.org?
<LimCore> s/kernel.org/vanilla
<LimCore> wgrant: you mean, why I would like vanilla kernel?   1) to work with LKML and help test newest kernels   2) to apply patches that ubuntu dont apply - i.e. grsecurity
<wgrant> LimCore: No, I mean what breaks when you try to use one?
<baron1984> Last time it made it to Runlevel 3 and panicked
<baron1984> been so long ago I don't remember much else
<LimCore> wgrant: hmm I didnt tried yet... that was also my question :)  Which vanilla kernel version is most matching current ubuntu linux-generic (2.6.24.19.21)?  is it 2.6.24.19 ?
<wgrant> LimCore: -19.21?
<wgrant> Also, this is completely offtopic.
<baron1984> You should really, really not mess with the official packaged versions
<wgrant> baron1984: Why not?
<baron1984> unless you have a good reason
<baron1984> cause then you have to micromanage the thing, and there's very little point to it
<LimCore> where can we discuss this topic then?  ubuntu-kernel is kind of quiet...  other ubuntu development channel?
<zul> LimCore: its easier just to get the kernels and kernel.org
<wgrant> baron1984: What? Surely there's less micromanagement than a vanilla kernel.
<LimCore> ok in another way.  Ubuntu user gets told at LKML  to "install a vanilla kernel and try again" what should he do then?
<zul> LimCore: go to kernel.org and download it
<zul> LimCore: I dont think you are going to get a vanilla kernel.org package for ubuntu unless if you package it yourself
<LimCore> zul: what happens to say nvidia binary driver then?  I need to download by hand and rebuild probably?
<baron1984> yep
<zul> yep
<LimCore> and this linux splash and other customizations, they will simply be gone right?
 * Hobbsee notes that zul is one of the kernel guys.
<baron1984> and you have to upgrade your kernel yourself too or go back to the packaged ones
<baron1984> like I said, lots of hassle, little payoff
<LimCore> baron1984: is there any other way to have support from LKML and/or  to install vanilla + custom patch like grsecurity?
<zul> no there isnt
<LimCore> you see
<baron1984> support from them means you use their kernel
<baron1984> no patches
 * Hobbsee wonders what "support" is expected from installing something completely custom and customisable anyway.
<LimCore> how about making it easier (the LKML thing)  by packing vanilla kernel?
<Hobbsee> seeing as the chances of reproducing anything are extremely low
<LimCore> Hobbsee: the opposite.
<baron1984> well, I mean once you change it in any way, they have no idea what is going on with it, or where to start
<Hobbsee> LimCore: how so?
<LimCore> Hobbsee: how many people use vanilla kernels, and how many use custom ubuntu kernel with custom ubutnu specyfic patches
<Hobbsee> LimCore: i'm talking about support from ubuntu, not from kernel.org.
<baron1984> I use stock Ubuntu linux-rt kernel
<zul> LimCore: I would say most users use the custom ubuntu specific patches if they are using ubuntu
<LimCore> right, and Im talking about LKML support
<baron1984> thats as much as I want to deviate
<LimCore> if one have a problem with kernel (i.e. driver problem) then only LKML can help, not ubuntu
<LimCore> in such case he needs to have vanilla kernel to get support for kernel developers
<zul> LimCore: if you are interested in getting into kernel programming and likes you would be better off in #kernel
<LimCore> whyu not make this easier for ubuntu users to get LKML support, by packing vanilla kernel
<zul> but of course what do I know
<zul> LimCore: man power for one
<Hobbsee> LimCore: so they dont end up using something that we support, completely by accident.
<baron1984> Cause the vanilla kernel doesn't do thing(s) that Ubuntu wants it to do?
<LimCore> simply packing kernel seems to be much esier then custom patching one?
<Hobbsee> and surely grabbing the bits is one of the easiest bits of compiling a kernel.
<zul> LimCore: it isnt
<norsetto> plus
<LimCore> zul: the goal would be just to provide this kernel, not to make it fully work with ubuntu
<baron1984> gah, someone has Linux very angry
<zul> LimCore: fine be my guest go and do it then :)
<baron1984> he's shouting four letter words on the mailing list, it's actually quite funny
<wgrant> norsetto: Are you planning to merge hypre at some point?
<norsetto> wgrant: yes, when atlats gets built for i386
<LimCore> zul: then how to be ubuntu developer and get this package into repository for people to use?
<LucidFox> asac, here?
<norsetto> wgrant: make that atlas
<wgrant> norsetto: Great, my petsc merge and other bits and pieces want it.
<Hobbsee> baron1984: i'm sure that's not related to development, and hence is offtopic.
<zul> LimCore: upload it to revu, check the wiki
<cody-somerville> LimCore, You can also use a PPA
<LimCore> ok
<geser> till I switched back from a custom kernel to the Ubuntu one, I used make-kpkg to build my kernel debs
<LimCore> separate subject: how about supporting grsecuriy kernels?
<LimCore> or merge more interesting bits of grsec with ubuntu and allow apparmored do the rest
<LimCore> *apparmor
<persia> LimCore: You'll really get better answers in #ubuntu-kernel, despite the apparent lack of traffic there.  Most people in this channel only use kernels.
<LimCore> ok, cy
<persia> Bah.  I didn't mean to cause departure.  Maybe some clients have an insufficiently clear mechanism to handle multiple channels :(
<sistpoty> norsetto, wgrant: hm... I'm also waiting for atlas... anyone who'd like to volunteer and track this down?
<wgrant> sistpoty: I'm unfortunately in the middle of exams.
<norsetto> sistpoty: I gave it a cursory look yesterday, its a bitch of an ftbfs
<sistpoty> hm... I'm on amd64 is no good excuse to not have to deal with atlas again, is it? *g+
<asac> LucidFox: ?
<directhex> do people use distro-compiled apps like petsc? gcc-compiled app performance sucks
<norsetto> sistpoty: I'm on amd64 too, my only guess is that it could be due to -Bsymbolic-function since it fails with a duplicated symbols error message
<sistpoty> norsetto: I rather doubt that -Bsymbolic-functions has an effect like this... I rather assume that some #ifdef regarding sse or s.th. is wrong
<norsetto> sistpoty: yes, its not used anyhow
<sistpoty> norsetto: as the error messages strangely come out from the assembler, not from the linker (haven't seen this myself before :/)
<norsetto> sistpoty: debian buildd logs do not help much: http://buildd.debian.org/pkg.cgi?pkg=atlas
<sistpoty> norsetto: yes, binary for i386 was included in the upload as it looks
<LucidFox> asac> Gnash 0.8.3 is out, I wondered if you were going to package it
<asac> LucidFox: sure, why not. want to help?
<LucidFox> eh, I'm afraid not :)
<LucidFox> just asked
<asac> the bzr branch already supports quite recent nightlies so it should just work (TM)
 * sistpoty is off again... cya
<rexium> Hey everyone. Question on sync policy, if there is a new upstream version of a package in debian unstable and MOM is only complaining about debian/controls, does that qualify as a sync?
<geser> rexium: it depends on the changes in debian/control
<norsetto> so much for being unstable, the atlas version there is from 2003
<persia> norsetto: It's called "unstable", not "current" :p
<rexium> upstream seperated some of the old source package out into another package (which already got auto-synced and is available) ... damn I just realized taht that package needs to be promoted to main...
<rexium> taking this to -devekl
<norsetto> persia: i wonder what they have in stable, abacuses?
 * persia has been a continual upgrader since potato: Etch is all strange newfangled code
 * lukehasnoname laughs
<lukehasnoname> The first linux magazine I ever looked at was discussing the "new" debian Sarge release
<directhex> i wrote a guide once, which targetted sarge test candidate 1
<directhex> 10k words. eep
<lukehasnoname> wow
<lukehasnoname> IBM may open-source DB2
<directhex> eek, 4 years old. http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=792
<lukehasnoname> Â£, ahaha
<lukehasnoname> Â£0.01 = $26.84
<amikrop> FrostWire 4.13.5 on Ubuntu 8.04 doesn't create a menu entry. Is this a frostwire's packaging problem, or did I do something wrong?
<baron1984> Frostwire? You're joking
<cody-somerville> baron1984, ...
<baron1984> yes?
<amikrop> baron1984: Excuse me?
<baron1984> well, say hello to the RIAA and computer viruses for me
<baron1984> thats all you'll find on Gnutella anymore
<norsetto> amikrop: there is no frostwire in ubuntu
<baron1984> yeah, there's a deb package on their site, but they're not affiliated with Ubuntu
<baron1984> thank god
<cody-somerville> amikrop, and they do have a bug in their package
<amikrop> Oh. I see.
<norsetto> cody-somerville: they have more than a bug (bug 94011)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 94011 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Frostwire" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/94011
<cody-somerville> I think you'll find that frostwire will appear in the menu after you install another application
<amikrop> cody-somerville: ?!
<amikrop> cody-somerville: This did not happen (I installed another application).
<cody-somerville> amikrop, it'll appear sooner or later
<cody-somerville> amikrop, it did for me
<amikrop> :P
<cody-somerville> It should show up in Applications > Network
<cody-somerville> *Internet
<Laney> amikrop: Make sure you don't have an entry in ~/.local/share/applications/
<Laney> I've been bitten by that before!
<amikrop> Laney: There, is the FrostWire executable.
<amikrop> Laney: Shouldn't it be there?
<norsetto> wgrant: sync requested for hypre, you should be able to proceed with petsc and co. soon
<Laney> amikrop: AIUI that's where local changes (i.e. under your username) to that particular desktop file go. Deleting it should start using the system one again.
<directhex> yay! it's that time again, tseliot! http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_amd64_177.13.html
<tseliot> directhex: yes, I'm working on it right now
<directhex> really? that was quick!
<tseliot> 4 flavours of the same driver, great...
<directhex> doesn't look like they've removed anything from it compared to the previous public release
<tseliot> they have dropped the support for *a few* cards
<directhex> though nothing mentioned in the readme about 0x05E7, which was in a previous beta driver
<directhex> tseliot, a few meaning an actual chip, or seemingly at random?
<tseliot> directhex: it supports GeForce 6 series and newer NVIDIA GPUs
<tseliot> I haven't checked the ids yet
<Laney> What's the .sbuildrc incantation to convince it to build arch:all packages?
<StevenK> -A
<Laney> StevenK: In the rcfile?
<StevenK> Laney: On the command line
<Laney> StevenK: Is the a way to specify it as default?
<Laney> I guess I could edit the script
 * directhex is trying to learn docbook, on the basis that it's slightly less painful than learning latex
<StevenK> Laney: Personally, I just run sbuild with -A
<Laney> Fair enough
<amikrop> Laney: OK. Thanks.
<amikrop> Laney: It worked.
<amikrop> :-)
<Laney> amikrop: Good!
<huats> nxvl: hello
<norsetto> huats!!!^2
<huats> norsetto !!!
<norsetto> huats: ready for the summer?
<huats> norsetto: sure
<huats> norsetto: a working summer...
<norsetto> huats: woot? No carribean beaches? Not even a tiny med island!?
<huats> norsetto: no I don't think so...
<huats> :(
<huats> what about you ?
 * norsetto wonders if it is wise to say the truth
<geser> norsetto: are you sitting on a carribean beach with WLAN access?
<norsetto> geser: and a big cocktail with an umbrella in my hands
<geser> :)
<AnAnt__> Hello, I made a package for realplayer 11 based on canonicals package for realplayer 10, it's on REVU now, who should I ask to review it ? the MOTUs or who ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt__: the canonical commercial guys.
<nxvl> huats: hi!
<AnAnt__> Hobbsee: any email or IRC channel for those ?
<huats> nxvl: I was lookingh for you for a few days
<baron1984> I like Synaptic's description of Epiphany-Browser
<baron1984> "Intuitive Web Browser - Dummy Package"
<lukehasnoname> haha
<nxvl> huats: well, with the work i'm kinf of busy
<Hobbsee> AnAnt__: look for an address / contact details on launchpad, or ask one of the canonical guys, i guess
<AnAnt__> Hobbsee: I think I'll just contact the maintainer
<jpds> AnAnt__: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-partner-dev
<AnAnt__> thanks
<norsetto> Hobbsee: is canonical using revu?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: i doubt it
<dmk> hi guys, I have noticed an error in a package I have just uploaded for REVU - can I just upload again? Or should I wait?
<norsetto> dmk: as you wish
<jpds> dmk: wait a while for it to leave the queue and then reupload
<dmk> ok, thanks guys
<LucidFox> Riddell, here?
<nxvl> lucas: around?
<nxvl> norsetto: btw, you are the man of the good practices, are you following lucas tread on -motu and -devel?
<norsetto> nxvl: not really, I'm not a m.l. practitioner :-)
<nxvl> norsetto: you should take a look
<nxvl> norsetto: the tread is: "About forwarding bugs and patches to Debian and documenting your changes"
<Riddell> LucidFox: hi
<LucidFox> Riddell> Are you planning to upgrade qtjambi to 4.4.0?
<Riddell> LucidFox: I've played with it about a week ago, the build system is quite different from previous versions and has a few issues that need worked around.  it'll need to wait for the new phonon package at least
<Riddell> LucidFox: why do you ask?
<LucidFox> Riddell> Ah, okay then
<norsetto> Anybody here using synaptic on hardy that can do a quick install test?
 * cody-somerville notes that the big, awesome, wicked Xubuntu meeting is taking place in a few hours. Hope you're all there! :) http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1499
<persia> norsetto: I have synaptic installed on hardy (although I don't typically use it).  What test do you need?
<persia> cody-somerville: You've scheduled it for a poor time for this side of the world :)
<cody-somerville> persia, Is the Saturday date better?
<norsetto> persia: can you try to install festlex-ifd? It should't drag much (on my system festival, festvox-itapc16k and libestools1.2)
<persia> cody-somerville: Not really.  5am and 2am here (6am and 3am for eastern Australia).
<persia> norsetto: And this only manifests in synaptic?
<norsetto> persia: fails to install? Apparently, I can't reproduce with apt-get
<persia> norsetto: OK.  I'll try with synaptic then :)
<persia> Is there a bug number?
<norsetto> bug 240834
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240834 in festival-it "recursive dependency error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240834
<persia> norsetto: I seem to already have that package installed :(
<norsetto> persia: haha, I should have known, you are such a language wizard ;-)
 * persia only has aspirations: it's more about being flooded in a room of flying brooms
<persia> It does seem to have circular dependencies though.  I'm not sure that is ideal.  I forget the rules about when they are allowed.
<persia> I think one of the packages is supposed to only recommend the other (but I don't know which would be correct)
<norsetto> persia: festlex-ifd doesn't recommend any other package
<persia> norsetto: No, but it both suggests and depends on the festvox packages.  That seems like someone was wedging something, rather than a correct solution.
<norsetto> persia: hmmm, the suggests seems indeed useless
<persia> norsetto: Might be worth checking the history.  I suspect the dependency should be a recommendation.
<persia> (and the suggests dropped)
<norsetto> persia: actually, it could be that they suggest to have both packages, but one only is required
<persia> norsetto: Right, but I suspect that any other voice set also works, which is why I say recommends.  The opposite model, of a voice set being installed without a dictionary isn't likely to work at all.
<persia> Remember that recommends will be installed in all but exceptional circumstances, and that having it depends<->recommends won't cause the installation loop.
<norsetto> persia: hmm, thats gonna change for intrepid though
<persia> norsetto: Well, recommends-by-default brings us back to matching the semantics documented in Debian policy.  We've been an "exceptional case" for a while.
<norsetto> persia: anyhow, this means the guy has "suggests selected for installation" as an option (I guess synaptic would give this option?). Otherwise I don't explain his problem.
<persia> norsetto: There's a circular dependency.  That's not generally permitted.
<norsetto> persia: through a suggest? apt-get doesn't consider it a problem
<jetsaredim> if i've run into an issue with the installation cd for ubuntu-server - what package would i file that bug against?
<cyberix> norsetto: I answered you, so what do you think?
<norsetto> cyberix: ok, let me check it first
<norsetto> cyberix: yes, thats the kind of stuff I'm getting too (I tried other maps obviously)
<norsetto> cyberix: is that usable for anything?
<cyberix> norsetto: http://kaino.kotus.fi/nikar/
<cyberix> norsetto: The current css of that site is really bad
<cyberix> norsetto: But you can click on some word to show on the map where it has been used for naming places (such as rocks, rivers, forests, ...)
<norsetto> cyberix: well, all I get is the black map, perhaps its a problem with Konqueror
<cyberix> I suppose so
<norsetto> cyberix: let me try firefox
<cyberix> ok
<norsetto> cyberix: ah! now I see something
<norsetto> cyberix: so, the stuff that you filter out its not meaningful?
<cyberix> it might be meaningful, but you don't necessarily need it
<norsetto> cyberix: what is ajos?
<cyberix> wow
<cyberix> that is a hard one
<norsetto> cyberix: well, if its hard for you imagine for me
<cyberix> It might have something to do with moving cows around
<cyberix> or maybe moving logs by water
<cyberix> ajo would be a drive
<norsetto> cyberix: nice, now it makes sense
<cyberix> and ajos would then be "something that is being driven"
<norsetto> cyberix: so, that is done with the svg?
<cyberix> yes
<cyberix> it is an svg that is dynamically composed with php
<norsetto> cyberix: cool, you have my advocation then
<cyberix> but the shapes are not changed
<cyberix> the php adds css to the svg
<cyberix> css defines the colours
<norsetto> cyberix: you may want to ask sistpoty (he is not logged now) if he is still happy to advocate the upload
<cyberix> I'll do that
<cyberix> norsetto: thanks
<norsetto> cyberix: my pleasure
<SpookyET> hi
<SpookyET> bac
<SpookyET> k
<norsetto> cody-somerville: is there any reason why synaptic in Xubuntu should work differently from Gnome?
<cody-somerville> norsetto, In what way is it acting differently?
<norsetto> cody-somerville: well, I really can't find a reason for bug 240834
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240834 in festival-it "recursive dependency error" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240834
<persia> The problem is the circular dependency, which is bad.
<norsetto> persia: I just installed and logged to Gnome hardy, I can't reproduce this with synaptic
<persia> norsetto: I suspect that is because mvo put special magic in to make it work.  It should break with those dependencies.
<norsetto> persia: and apt-get? its also working (and no, I'm not going to check adept or whatever it is that kde uses)
<SpookyET> Does anyone use CDBS?
<Riddell> superm1: accepted coreavc, keep poking upstream about the copyright though
<Riddell> SpookyET: almost everyone does, doesn't mean anyone understands it :)
<SpookyET> I have an issue with it.
<mario_limonciell> Riddell, thanks.  Yeah will do.  upstream is kinda slow to progress things, so i might just end up joining to get some commit access to fix some of the pending things myself :)
<SpookyET> It doesn't move debian/tmp/bin to debian/foo/usr/bin
<Riddell> SpookyET: if you put debian/tmp/bin in foo.install it'll move it to debian/foo/bin
<Riddell> but not to debian/foo/usr/bin
<SpookyET> Riddell: why do I have to do that? It does it for the other dirs
<Riddell> SpookyET: it won't move anything unless it is told to
<persia> norsetto: I expect as much.  There's a lot of ubuntu-specific variation in those tools (much of which is getting closer to Debian for intrepid)
<SpookyET> Riddell: I'm not telling it to move the other dirs. It does it by itself, everything except /usr/bin
<norsetto> persia: well, why then the magic is not working for the bug reporter? I just would like to be sure before presenting the case to Debian
<SpookyET> debian/tmp/usr/bin is populated
<persia> norsetto: That's the part I don't understand.  I think there is a bug in the package, but that bug shouldn't produce that result for the submitter.
<Riddell> SpookyET: if it's a single binary package it should install to debian/foo/
<Riddell> not debian/tmp/
<SpookyET> Riddell: it's not
<SpookyET> Riddell: have a look please https://code.launchpad.net/~spookyet/+junk/rdup
<SpookyET> it's a simple package
<Riddell> SpookyET: that's not cdbs
<Riddell> $(MAKE) install prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/rdup/usr
<Riddell> should install it all to debian/rdup/usr
<SpookyET> oops. I didn't upload the cdbs version
<SpookyET> Riddell: committed
<Riddell> SpookyET: the docs file will move the files listed in it to debian/rdup/
<Riddell> and debian/rdup-doc/
<Riddell> rdup-doc.docs will move the files listed in it to debian/rdup-doc/
<Riddell> nothing else will get moved
<Riddell> it'll need a rdup.install file
<SpookyET> oh
<james_w> anyone have a tool to grab a source package from Debian without having deb-src lines for that in my sources.list?
<james_w> or is there a way that I can have those lines but be sure to only get them from Debian if I say "-t unstable" or similar?
<norsetto> persia: this could explain it: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00694.html
<persia> norsetto: list length!  That's it.  Good find.
<persia> I still think the fix is to make festival-itad only Recomment the vox packages (and neither Depend nor Suggest them)
<norsetto> persia: let me ask for confirmation. From what I could find so far I think we need to fix the package, but my idea would be to remove the depends from festvox-itapc16k and festvox-italp16k on festlex-ifd
<james_w> \sh: hi, do you have a reference for the problem that http://patches.ubuntu.com/c/cappuccino/cappuccino_0.5.1-2ubuntu1.patch was intended to fix?
<\sh> james_w: nope...not anymore...but I can remember that it needed something which wasn't in python but in python-dev
<nxvl> i'm having some problems/questions packaging a library
<nxvl> the library ships with gnulib in the source
<nxvl> so i'm removing it from the source to add it as Build-Depend
<nxvl> but it's kind of hard coded on the Makefile and configure script
<james_w> \sh: the build process looks to be too simple for that, and the Debian package builds fine in both my sid and intrepid pbuilders.
<nxvl> did anyone can point me to the best way to deal with this?
<\sh> james_w: can be..I don't argue..but during feisty it wasn't somehow...
<\sh> james_w: if the oackage now builds directly, get rid of the diff and sync
<james_w> \sh: fair enough.
<james_w> there's no upload to sync at the moment. Whenever there is it can be re-evaluated.
<\sh> james_w: ah...
<\sh> james_w: so if there is no new package in debian, so just upload the changed package
<\sh> james_w: -python-dev +python .. and mark in the changelog : syncing the next time
<james_w> \sh: ok, care to sponsor?
<\sh> james_w: push debdiff to bug, send bug report ;)
<\sh> james_w: so yes :)
<james_w> thanks
<\sh> james_w: welcome
<SpookyET> Riddell: none of the tutorials i google show you how to make multi-bin packages with CDBS
<Riddell> SpookyET: just add a file <packagename>.install
<Riddell> with lines for each file to include
<Riddell> debian/tmp/usr/bin/foo
<Riddell> etc
<SpookyET> Don't you have to tell it the destination as well?
<Riddell> it'll copy it into debian/<packagename>/usr/bin/foo
<SpookyET> Riddell: that's the problem. It's not doing it
<mouz> I'm packaging a tool where the executable is in CamelCase. I'd like to rename it to all lower case, because it seems to be the policy. But I can not find a documented policy about that: is there any?
<nxvl> is there any way to search for packages which build depends on some other package?
<geser> nxvl: http://paste.ubuntu.com/3207/
<geser> nxvl: or reverse-build-depends from ubuntu-dev-tools
<nxvl> geser: thanks!
<bersace> Hi
<cody-somerville> Hiya
<bersace> could anyone please remove gnome-scan upload attempts ?
<bersace> thx
<v0lksman> ping jdong
<james_w> \sh: bug 241029 please.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241029 in cappuccino "Unnecessary diff to Debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241029
<\sh> james_w: upload
<\sh> ed
<james_w> \sh: thanks
<norsetto> liberate tutemet ex inferis !?
<luisbg> is the code for revu open source?
<norsetto> luisbg
<norsetto> luisbg: yes
<luisbg> luisbg: https://edge.launchpad.net/revu
<luisbg> the code is there
<luisbg> but it never mentions the license it is in
<luisbg> mentions the copyright holders and that it can be distributed and modified if the copyright holders are mentioned
<luisbg> norsetto: but not which license it is
<norsetto> luisbg: perhaps, what is the license to do with a software being open source or not?
<luisbg> if it is really free or not
<luisbg> if I can modify it and use the modified code
<norsetto> luisbg: that has nothing to do with open source
<luisbg> making the source code available isnt making it free
<luisbg> ok... I will restate my question: is it free software?
<norsetto> luisbg: better question :-)
<luisbg> norsetto: thanks :P
<luisbg> is there an answer to it?
<\sh> luisbg: ask siretart
<\sh> and sistpoty
<geser> norsetto: "liberate tutemet ex inferis" is a quote from Event Horizon
<norsetto> luisbg,: the license seems pretty clear to me
<norsetto> geser: ah, I was wondering since it seems a bit of a pig-latin ;-)
<luisbg> norsetto: imagine I wanted to use the revu code for an other distro, I would take out all ubuntu related stuff, and adapt it to my distro
<luisbg> can I do this?
<norsetto> luisbg: provided you follow the requirements laid in the license, yes
<luisbg> norsetto: and which are the requirements
<luisbg> besides taking trademarked material out and mentioning the original coders?
<norsetto> luisbg: practically, you have to retain the copyright notice, some of the related files have other licenses, you would have to check what they require
<geser> norsetto: I never had latin in school, that's all I could find about the wording of the quote
<luisbg> ok
<norsetto> geser: is the film any good? The title is promising
<geser> norsetto: http://akas.imdb.com/title/tt0119081/, the Italian title is "Punto di non ritorno"
<cody-somerville> fyi, Xubuntu community meeting is taking place right now in #ubuntu-meeting for all parties interested! :)
<norsetto> geser: watching an English spoken film in Italian is one of the most horrific experiences one can do ... almost worst than in French
<highvoltage> ooh
<norsetto> worse ...
<siretart> \sh: ?
<siretart> luisbg: the README file contains the copyright statment
<norsetto> ahhh, blue is so much more relaxing
<mathiaz> kees: I've managed to get an ipsec-tools merge that builds correctly - could you review the changes that I needed to make it work ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/21235/
<kees> mathiaz: ECHO part looks good, I'd recommend the fgets to fail with a break like the !rbuf[0] check.
<kees> mathiaz: i.e. only ignore the return value if there is no other option
<mathiaz> kees: like this ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/21236/
<kees> mathiaz: yeah, looks right to me
<mathiaz> kees: great - thanks for your input :)
<kees> mathiaz: sure! thanks for getting it fixed.  :)
<beDrung> hi, I have merged the newest version of xmms2 from debian. i need sponsorship for uploading it. Do I have to create a lanchpad bug or are there other way to do it?
<geser> a LP bug is the best way (don't forget to subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team)
<SpookyET> Rejected:
<SpookyET> MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive
<SpookyET> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
<SpookyET> I checked the md5s
<SpookyET> thy're fine
<geser> PPA upload?
<SpookyET> yeah
<geser> what did you tried to upload?
<SpookyET> rdup package
<geser> does the same upstream version exist in the Ubuntu archive or in your PPA already?
<SpookyET> no
<geser> that's usually the problem but try asking in #launchpad then
<SpookyET> I deleted the prev version. I thought that maybe .orig has changed
<beDrung> sometimes it need time to delete a package in your ppa
<beDrung> geser: done: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xmms2/+bug/241098
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241098 in xmms2 "Please merge: XMMS2 0.5 DrLecter" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<kirkland> mathiaz: what are the relevant dates on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule for MIR preparation/submission/processing?
<mathiaz> kirkland: IIRC FeatureFreeze is a good target to get your MIR approved
<mathiaz> kirkland: but things are not set in stone
<mathiaz> kirkland: some packages have been moved to main after FF
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay, cool, thanks.
<kirkland> mathiaz: since apt-get now installs recommends, for a package to move to main, all of its requires and recommends also need to move to main, right?
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes
 * kirkland goes file more MIRs
<mathiaz> kirkland: main should be self-contained, ie build depends can only come from main and you should be able to install any package from main with only main enabled in your sources.list
<kirkland> mathiaz: right
<kirkland> mathiaz: before the latest apt-get recommends change, were recommends allowed to be in universe?
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes IIRC
<mathiaz> kirkland: you may not have to file MIR for all recommends
<mathiaz> kirkland: another option is to drop the recommends to suggests
<kirkland> mathiaz: gotcha
<slangasek> which I would expect to be the better course in the vast majority of cases
<geser> isn't a package installable with missing recommends?
<slangasek> yes, but they have an effect on what gets installed by default if you have universe enabled + the new apt
<ScottK> So MIR for reccomends is required or not?  Do we know?
<slangasek> if they're not going to be demoted to suggests instead, I think the recommended packages ought to make their way into main
<geser> what about packages already in main? got their recommends get check if being in main in the past?
<slangasek> geser: the recommends: of packages currently in main were never checked before, because recommends were never installed by default before
<persia> norsetto: The otherway about: festival-ifd should Recommend festvox-ita*, and festvox-ita* should Depend on festival-ifd.
<CarlFK> ï»¿anyone ï»¿know of a gpl dictionary of phonetic spellings?
<persia> CarlFK: For which language?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-19
<CarlFK> English
<CarlFK> ï»¿im trying to remove some of the manual steps from http://www.voxforge.org/home/dev/autoaudioseg "Step 2 - Add Missing Words ... [WINWARD] w ih n w er d
<persia> CarlFK: Apparently not.  I thought maybe one of the speech synthesizer lexicons would have such a thing, but they are entirely phonemic, rather than having phonetic spellings.
<persia> (Also, most aren't GPL: generally closer to ISC)
<wgrant> Uh. Can I reject bug #240934, or do we support compilation on architectures that don't exist?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240934 in gspca "gspca on ARM platform" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240934
<CarlFK> persia: yeah. but that may be ok.  apparently festival can do what is needed, but someone (me) needs to ... um.  make the output usable :)
<persia> CarlFK: Right.  I've just dug a bit more: You can get (non-GPL) lists in festival-oald (oald-0.4.out) or festival-cmu (cmudict-04.out), depending on the pronunciation you prefer.
<CarlFK> persia: thanks
<emgent> heya people
<YokoZar> jdong: can I poke you for a backport?
<YokoZar> I've tested it :)  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/240755
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240755 in hardy-backports "Please backport Wine 1.0 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<persia> motu-release: The DIF notice has been posted to u-d-a@ : could someone please send the related information re: the DIF exception process, etc.?
<persia> (or tell me to do it, but I don't want to ursurp release planning activities)
<cyberix> Where can I find a guide for splitting one source package into multiple binary packages?
<persia> cyberix: http://wiki.debian.org/PkgSplit, but I found this confusingly Java-specific.
<persia> cyberix: The general rules are 1) put the right names in debian/control, 2) use -p, -a, and -i in debhelper calls in debian/rules.
<cyberix> What disturbs me most is that the two pieces of software probably share some files
<cyberix> e.g. AUTHORS
<cyberix> and maybe some documentation
<persia> cyberix: AUTHORS doesn't typically belong in the binary package.  If you have shared docs, consider having a foo-doc package.
<cyberix> Also, there are probably related things that I don't see currently
<cyberix> It would be useful to get a list of typical problems
<LinuxMonkey> anyone here know when the next packaging 101 is, cause trying to follow the guide I got lost.lol
<persia> LinuxMonkey: What are you packaging, and where did you get lost?
<LinuxMonkey> persia: well im trying to learn packaging, therefore following the guide at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete and doing that hello thing. however someone first told me i needed to create a chroot and do everything from there, however someone else told me thats not the case so I guess im lost
<LinuxMonkey> and the guide is not quite clear on that
<persia> LinuxMonkey: There's no right answers in packaging.  Personally, I strongly recommend seeking a different goal than "to learn packaging".  Good goals might be "to package some application", "to fix some class of packaging bugs", or the like.
<persia> Or rather, there are several, equally right answers (and there are some wrong answers).
<persia> To address the need for a chroot specifically: if you are building something that can generate a source package using the tools in your current release, you may proceed without a chroot.  If you rely on tools in a different release to build the source package, you must do that in a chroot.
<baron1984> is there anyone from the kernel team in here?
<persia> baron1984: While there often is, #ubuntu-kernel is almost always a better place to ask about the kernel, as it then becomes on-topic.
<LinuxMonkey> well persia i love the way you change the goals but  in fact they are the same goals I have however in order to "Package some application" "fix a bug and repackage" you infact need to learn packaging in a way. and thats what I want to do. im just following the advise of the WIKI to start with
<persia> LinuxMonkey: I can see that argument, although the level of knowledge required to package one application or fix some class of bugs is not as high as is typically expected by those who claim to understand packaging :)
<persia> So, what are you seeking to accomplish as a result of your study of the wiki?
<LinuxMonkey> well I guess its whatever you guys want me to do really, untill i learn more, I was trying to follow the guides on the wiki but im starting to understand thats probably NOT the best way to aproach this, probably the best way is to get someone to show me how to do something and continously work on that type of stuff untill at ease with it and learn something else as I go along
<baron1984> well, #ubunt-kernel is dead, can you guys at least tell me how to go about filing a suspend/resume bug?
<baron1984> what kind of information is needed, etc
<nxvl> if i have a source package inside another, do i need to the copyrights of them to the copyritght file or just mention there is this other package
<persia> LinuxMonkey: I'd recommend working on bugfixes for a bit.  If you want packaging-specific bugfixes, trying to fix the packages that cannot install (apt-cache unmet -i) can be an interesting way to become familiar with debian/control
<persia> nxvl: You need both copyrights.  Ideally you'll also complain to upstream about the extra security work involved in bundling embedded sources, and you won't have that problem anymore.
<nxvl> persia: the embed source is gnulib
<persia> nxvl: Ah.  Right.  You want to mention that in debian/copyright, and find a saner package then.
<nxvl> persia: i have already talk with cjwatson and he told me it's better to keep it there than linking
<nxvl> persia: but my question is: should i list the copyright under "Copyright:" or just mention it with it's license under "License:"
<LinuxMonkey> persia: ok I wouldnt mind working on bug fixes, just dont know were to start. what to do. think of me as fresh meat, willing to do anything and learn what i need to do as long as u point me in right direction
<persia> LinuxMonkey: Right.  Are there any bugs that you experience that irritate you?
<LinuxMonkey> no not really persia the bugs ive encountered have been fixed really fast
<persia> LinuxMonkey: OK.  Are there any packages that you use a lot and find especially useful?
<LinuxMonkey> I dont use much mostly wine. lol as in windows wine
<persia> LinuxMonkey: Hmm.  It's hard from that to tell what might interest you.  You might look through the bugs tagged "packaging" on launchpad, and see if you can find a good fix for one.
<crimsun_> baron1984: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspend
<m-c> superm1: ping
<emgent> argh.. I cant sleep
<m-c> Micheal larabel from phoronix.com has been working on an interesting project.  Have you heard about it?
<m-c> With the development of the open source drivers, from Intel, AMD, and Novell, there are reasons why people will want independent comparisons of open source graphic drivers.
<m-c> Michael has created a GPL-based benchmark suite for testing these drivers against GPL-based benchmark programs.  I have tried this software out, and I can attest that it is worth incorporating into the next Ubuntu release.
<m-c> Michael says he has discussed this with superm1 already, but so far I have not been able to contact him or see a write up in Launchpad.
<persia> m-c: Does it have a needs-packaging bug?
<baron1984> m-c: I'd kill for any kind of open source drivers, binary blobs are why you can't improve a distro without hosing people's video cards, etc.
<persia> baron1984: Select different hardware :)
<baron1984> Nvidia's drivers aren't entirely compatible with even Hardy, they just hacked their way around a lot of things
<baron1984> and XRandr doesn't work well
<baron1984> I'd take compatibility over a few more frames a second
<m-c> I invited Michael to the channel.  Persia, is the next step to enter a need-packaging bug report?  If so, then I will get on it.
<m-c> michaellarabel: hi
<michaellarabel> Hi
<persia> m-c: The best first step for any new package request is a needs-packaging request.  That is the list of software that is available to be packaged for those packaging things.
<m-c> Right.  I understand.  Is there any information that might be needed from Michael while he is present, regarding license or other information?
<persia> The next step would be for someone to claim the request, and build a candidate package for REVU.  It's also worth reviewing the Debian bugs against wnpp, and linking to any relevant RFP or ITP: if a package is going into Debian, it makes sense not to duplicate the work.
<persia> I think a good needs-packaging bug contains the software name, the license, the homepage, and a brief description.
<m-c> Would it be more applicable for this package to be entered upstream, into Debian?
<m-c> Right, I can enter this into Debian first, then, with the information you specified.
<persia> michaellarabel: If you are upstream for software that ought be included, there are some things that can be done in your release planning to make packaging easier: including the license in the root directory of the release tarball, providing versioned gzip-compressed tarballs for download (and maintaining the old version archive), and the like.  More suggestions are available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpstreamGuide (althoug
<persia> h this is incomplete).
<m-c> Thank you for your advice.
<michaellarabel> persia: License is already in root directory, the tarballs are versioned, and there is still an old version archive, etc. :)
<persia> m-c: I can't say whether it belongs in Debian: depends on interest and utility.  If getting it in faster is a goal, it may be easier to put in Ubuntu now, as Ubuntu is unfrozen, and Debian is entering a release freeze.  Of course, this is a soft freeze, so it may not matter.
<persia> michaellarabel: Excellent :)
<m-c> My perception is that getting it into Ibex would be superb, with the AMD open source drivers coming to maturity at that time
<nxvl> finally got it packaged!
<michaellarabel> persia: Any other tips?
<nxvl> persia: what was the process for revu, just upload and wait, or send an e-mail somewhere?
<persia> michaellarabel: As upstream?  No.  As a potential packager?  I can point you at various guides, but need more information about what you need.
<persia> nxvl: Upload, wait, and ask here on REVU days.
<persia> You can also ask here once a day when it's not REVU day.
<persia> nxvl: Also, if you've time, feel free to review others packages :)
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> i will try
<michaellarabel> persia: No other real questions... I just have never went through the Ubuntu/Debian package submission process before.
<persia> michaellarabel: I'm not deeply familar with the Debian process, but the Ubuntu process is to use REVU.  Let's see if the bot has the link...
<persia> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<nxvl> i am familiar with the debian one
<nxvl> :D
 * nxvl is NM
<nxvl> for debian you need to be psicological prepared or have a friend
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> they are evil
<nxvl> :P
<nxvl> you need to upload your package to mentors.debian.net
<nxvl> and somewhere in mentor you have the info about the ITP Bug, mailling list and stuff
<nixternal> oi oi
<superm1> persia, yeah i offered to help provide some advice when a package is ready
<superm1> and to look it over and such
<superm1> if no one else was going to step up to package it in the next month or two i was going to take a look near the middle to end of summer at doing it
<michaellarabel> superm1: Hi, yeah, m-c will probably submit that package to you then as he's offered to do it and has more time than me.
<superm1> wonderful
<superm1> time is a great thing to have :)
<nixternal> time sucks!
<superm1> hopefully i'll get around to giving it more of a thorough look and get you some more input on its functionality
<michaellarabel> superm1: Great. What was the test/suite that had taken you all day to do? Did you get my email about that?
<superm1> yeah i got the email about it, but  got swamped on other things so it's added to the "Todo"
<michaellarabel> ok
<superm1> when i get a chance to look again i'll just do universe
<superm1> or universe-x
<superm1> and go from there
<michaellarabel> k
<SpookyET> I keep getting this email http://pastie.org/217736
<SpookyET> http://pastie.org/private/byvfyjge9ysotzfryinivq
<nxvl> where can i find an explanation about what the sections means?
<persia> nxvl: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<nxvl> persia: yes, i'm reading that, but it only lists the sections
<nxvl> well, they are pretty obvious
<bimberi> nxvl: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/
<persia> nxvl: Oh, you want an explanantion of each section?  Hmmm...
<persia> nxvl: I don't know where the official source lives.  http://packages.debian.org/unstable/ has a nice overview of each of them.
 * nxvl HUGS persia and bimberi 
<nxvl> :D
<bimberi> :)
<Zombie> Hello.
<Zombie> I'd like some upgrade help. I have a Kubuntu Hardy CD and a Ubuntu DVD. I want to use thsee as my upgrade sources instead of the network.
<persia> Zombie: This isn't a support channel: you want #ubuntu, but you just change your sources.list
<Zombie> I got a rediculously stupid answer there, is there an advanced Ubuntu channel?
<persia> Zombie: No.  Try again :)
<joejaxx> that has to be a classic quote
<joejaxx> lol
<ScottK> I'd have said there is, but I have a consulting rate.
<joejaxx> 00:47:59 -!- Irssi: Join to #ubuntu-motu was synced in 869472 secs
<joejaxx> hahahahahahahaha
<joejaxx> 10 days
<joejaxx> that HAS to be a record
<wgrant> Nice!
<ajmitch> joejaxx: it's not unusual to have that
<joejaxx> really?
<ajmitch> nah, irssi has often done that for me in the past until I closed or /cycle'd windows that where out of sync after a disconnect
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> that is unfortunate
<ajmitch> usually if I was over the 20-channel limit & hadn't identified before irssi tried to rejoin them all
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> sounds like me :D
<lifeless> has anyone filed that irssi bug?
<joejaxx> no
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> i did not think of it
<joejaxx> as i am in over 500 channels lol
<ajmitch> yeah, that's just madness
<joejaxx> so i thought it might just be my user case
<joejaxx> :)
<Zombie> I have a systemic question about where Ubuntu stores downloaded debs.
<Zombie> Where does it store them.?
<joejaxx> Zombie: /var/cache/apt/archives
<wgrant> nixternal: Why does smb4k keep destroying /etc/sudoers?
<wgrant> It has at least 4 separate instances of it in its bug history.
<wgrant> This is probably a very bad thing.
<ScottK> Adri2000 or Lutin: You might want to look at the current spamassassin on DaD.  debian/changelog is mssing all the Ubuntu entries.
<ajmitch> wgrant: because it's an evil package that should be removed, given its potential for serious breakage?
<wgrant> ajmitch: That's what I was thinking.
<wgrant> Destroying once, maybe.
<wgrant> But 4 separate bugs.
<wgrant> Seriously.
<ajmitch> looking at the bug for it, it must do some stupid things with that file
<persia> Isn't there some policy statement about not touching conffiles from other packages?
<wgrant> sudoers is a special case.
<ajmitch> yes, don't do it in maintainer scripts
<wgrant> Which is even more reason to *keep the $#*($#@ away from it*
<ScottK> Ambitious maintainer is all it is ....
<ajmitch> bug 238011 for those who want to cry
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238011 in smb4k "using the super user tab breaks /etc/sudoers" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238011
<wgrant> Nothing else manages to eat config files - why something that touches sudoers?
<wgrant> ajmitch: Ah, I apparently failed to paste that here earlier. Oops.
<wgrant> I see that the first incarnation managed to stick some X error crap at the start.
<wgrant> This is truly impressive.
<wgrant> I'd like to know how it does it.
<ajmitch> crossing the streams
<wgrant> Hm?
<ajmitch> never mind
<persia> ajmitch: Yes :)
<joejaxx> wgrant: possible movie reference :P
<joejaxx> haha
<joejaxx> :)
<ajmitch> you're probably too young for that one :)
<wgrant> Blah/
<joejaxx> :P
 * bimberi offers ajmitch a marshmallow ;p
<ajmitch> heh
 * StevenK chuckles
<wgrant> I like the summary of bug #226722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226722 in flashplugin-nonfree "im mad as hell firefox beta 3 ver? 5 does not play videos online im about to give up on linux ubuntu 7.10 was better " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226722
<wgrant> Fits a lot in.
<LinuxMonkey> now thats funny
<Ekushey> rofl
<Zombie> Folks.
<Zombie> You people need to add an option for CD and DVD based upgrades.
<Zombie> I can't get my system to do that
<persia> Zombie: It should be present (and this still isn't a support channel).
 * persia thinks the "upgrade from CD" function was added in edgy
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> that should be on the optical media
<wgrant> Zombie: You should be in #ubuntu. Make sure that you're not trying to use a desktop CD.
<Ekushey> what do i need to do to be able to upload to REVU? i already joined the LP revu-uploaders team
<wgrant> Ekushey: You need to request that the REVU keyring be synced.
<wgrant> I really must improve that process one day.
<Ekushey> wgrant, are you in charge?
<wgrant> Ekushey: I have the power.
<wgrant> It is now running, but will take several minutes.
<persia> wgrant: Back to a cron job?
<Ekushey> wgrant, my LP ID is russell.john
 * persia tries to remember why the cron job was cancelled
<wgrant> persia: I was thinking that a minimal version of the sync - that is, picking up only new keys - could run immediately before the upload processor each time.
<wgrant> And refresh all keys once a day
<\sh> moins
<wgrant> Hey \sh.
<wgrant> Ekushey: So you'll be quite close to the end.
<persia> wgrant: That sounds complete, but I remember something going wrong and the keyring being corrupt back on the original sparky.  Maybe my memory is faulty.  Maybe the new infrastructure is sufficiently better.
<Ekushey> wgrant, so i can try uploading tomorrow?
<wgrant> Ekushey: Give it another couple of minutes...
<Ekushey> so fast? wow :)
<wgrant> It is done.
<wgrant> Upload now - your upload should be on REVU in about 6 minutes.
<Ekushey> great, thanks wgrant!
<Ekushey> i'll do it at night from home
<Ekushey> i've question one question, why isn't flock available on the repo? what's wrong with it?
<jussi01> its closed source?
<Ekushey> is it? isn't it based on firefox?
 * jussi01 cant find source anywhere...
<LinuxMonkey> i found the source
<LinuxMonkey> http://downloads.flock.com/index.php?product=flock-source-current&os=linux
<Ekushey> it's licensed under MPL / LGPL dual license
 * jussi01 must be going blind...
<LinuxMonkey> jussi01: just tired
<Ekushey> so there must be some other reason why it's not available on ubuntu
<jussi01> LinuxMonkey: havent woken up yet...
<jussi01> Ekushey: hasnt been done yet?
<LinuxMonkey> its 2:32am and i havent gone to bed yet
<Ekushey> no clue... is there a way to find out if someone is packaging it or not?
<persia> Ekushey: Look for a needs-packaging bug on launchpad, or an RFP/ITP bug in the BTS.  These are the means by which people request/announce packaging
<Ekushey> ok persia
<jussi01> LinuxMonkey: its 9.27 am, im not awake yet
<dholbach> good morning
<LinuxMonkey> morning dholbach were either so tired were not responding (my case) or not awake yet (everyone else)
<dholbach> LinuxMonkey: bed time then? :)
<LinuxMonkey> yeah another 25 minutes or so. its only 3:35am anyways
<dholbach> that's OK then ;-)
<emgent> morning
<huats> morning dear motu world
<RAOF> Howdie.
<RAOF> bigon: I'm looking at telepathy-butterfly (because miro's blocked).  It seems that the Ubuntu divergence (don't pull in python-ctypes, which introduces an unnecessary 2.4 dependency) should go back to Debian.  Would you like me to file a bug in the BTS?
 * persia is amused at the complaint that courier-imap is too new.  Usually it's about things being outdated.
<RAOF> Someone's merged it from the future :)
<persia> Perhaps the idea is to get the average version to some ideal...
<RAOF> Hm.  Awkward.  subversion FTBFS, and libsvn-perl is uninstallable.
<persia> RAOF: It's part of the master plan to get everyone to go back to RCS
<RAOF> svn-buildpackage ain't gonna be working for me in the immediate future.
<wgrant> persia: Shingle version control!
<RAOF> Ah.  Subversion needs a merge, apparently.
<persia> wgrant: I'm not sure I trust those newfangled things.
<bigon> RAOF, fixed in the tp-butterfly bzr branch
<Adri2000> ScottK: yes, base version (3.2.4-2
<Adri2000> err
<Adri2000> ScottK: ) not available on snapshot.d.n, so empty patches and broken merge
<RicardoPerez> can any MOTU member apply the patch in bug #222038?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 222038 in firestarter "Firestarter fails to run on locales other than English" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222038
<james_w> hi askand
<askand> ï»¿ james_w:  hi
<james_w> would you like to look at http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html and see if there are any packages on there you are familiar with/use/like the sound of?
<askand> ï»¿james_w: quite a lot..but i like the sound of freetennis for example :P
<james_w> cool, so look at what name is next to the package, as we need to make sure that they are not currently working on it.
<james_w> unfortunately I don't know who that person is, I was hoping they would be on IRC so that we could get a quick answer.
<askand> Oh
<james_w> would you like to pick another so that we can go ahead and do one, and once we've done that you can proceed with freetennis?
<james_w> I don't think there would be any problem in merging this one as the person doesn't seem to be very active.
<james_w> Does anyone know William Lima?
<askand> he doesnt seem to be very active according to launchpad
<james_w> ok, let's go ahead and do it
<james_w> if you click the name of the package then you will be taken to a page named REPORT that tells you a bit about what's going on.
<james_w> let me know once you've read the page, and if there is something that you don't understand.
<TheMuso> Who wants to join me cleaning the sponsors queue somewhat?
<james_w> hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey james_w.
<dholbach> TheMuso: I already did a few and plan to do some more
 * directhex is finally working on an actual universe package, rather than main or debian
<askand> ï»¿james_w: looks pretty clear to me
<TheMuso> dholbach: Right, I'm going to clear some as well, since DIF is so close.
<james_w> askand: cool, so in this case as it failed to merge cleanly there is a tarball with the results
<james_w> askand: if you remove the "REPORT" from the end of the URL you will find the files. Please download and extract the tarball
<james_w> (not the .orig.tar.gz one)
<dholbach> TheMuso: right - let's chat in here and say which ones we're looking at - so we don't look both at the same :)
 * dholbach looks at xmms2
 * TheMuso has a lock on spread
 * sebner waves
<dholbach> hi sebner
<sebner> can anybody tell me when a nvidia-glx update is planned (support for 2.6.26 kernel)
<askand> ï»¿james_w: ok downloaded and extracted the ubuntu.src.tar.gz one
<dholbach> sebner: best to ask in #ubuntu-kernel or #ubuntu-x
<james_w> askand: cool, so if you go back to the REPORT file you will see a list of conflicted files, we need to sort those out.
<sebner> dholbach: cool, thanks =) though 800*600 isn't that bad since this forces me to learn :P
<james_w> askand: the first is debian/control, so please open that in a text editor.
<directhex> sebner, in intrepid, or generally?
<james_w> askand: you will see that on the Ubuntu side we just changed the Maintainer as normal. On the Debian side they changed maintainer as well, but also updated the Build-Depends, and added some more information.
<sebner> directhex: intrepid since there we have a new kernel =)
<james_w> askand: we want all of Debian's changes, but we want to modify the maintainer field as well.
<james_w> askand: but ensure that the "Original-Maintainer:" refers to the new Debian Maintainer.
<james_w> askand: got it?
 * TheMuso takes a lock on zsnes.
<askand> ï»¿james_w: hm..how do I ensure that the original-maintainer (ï»¿bart martens) refers to the new debian maintainer?
<gnomefreak> What is the name of the hardy-backports team that you use when a bug needs to be backported?
<james_w> askand: the line you leave as "XSBC-Original-Maintainer:" should be "XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Debian OCaml Maintainers <debian-ocaml-maint@lists.debian.org>" rather than "XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Bart Martens <bartm@knars.be>"
<james_w> askand: as this line refers to the Debian maintainer, which has changed, so we need to make sure we get the right one.
<askand> ah ok got it
 * dholbach looks at gtkglarea
<askand> ï»¿james_w:  and I should also change the build-deps ?
<james_w> askand: you should probably go with what Debian has.
<askand> ï»¿ james_w: yes
<james_w> askand: if you look at the last two Ubuntu entries in debian/changelog you can see if Ubuntu changed them, in which case you should look in to it a bit more.
<james_w> http://merges.ubuntu.com/f/freetennis/freetennis_0.4.8-3ubuntu2.patch
<james_w> that's the Ubuntu changes, and you can see that the Build-Depends weren't modified, so you can just take what Debian has.
<askand> ï»¿ james_w: ok done
<james_w> askand: great, so save that file and we can move on to the next one.
<rzr> hi
<james_w> askand: feel free to stick anything in a pastebin if you would like me to glance over it.
<james_w> askand: the next file is debian/freetennis.8, which is the manpage.
<askand> ï»¿james_w:  should I also add homepagefield ?
<james_w> askand: looking at the changelogs both sides improved the file, so this may be easy or difficult.
<rzr> As a debian maintainer I am about to release a package which closes some ubuntu bugs, should I also add (LP:#xyz) in debian/control ?
<rzr> then the debian package will just need to be imported
<james_w> askand: yup, that's useful to have.
<james_w> askand: when merging you want to follow Debian as closely as possible, just sticking with Ubuntu changes where there is good reason to.
 * dholbach takes a look at tkdiff
<askand> ï»¿james_w: how does this look? http://pastebin.com/m38d07c00
<james_w> askand: good, we also want the Uploaders line
<james_w> askand: and you need to delete the conflict markers and the Debian section.
<askand> ï»¿james_w: http://pastebin.com/m7b881a22 not sure what the <<<<<<<<< is?
 * dholbach takes a look at libofx
<james_w> askand: that's one of the conflict markers. They are just there to denote the areas which need some attention. When you are done you need to delete them.
<Laney> askand, james_w: If you're trying to merge freetennis, you should be aware of bug #241249
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241249 in freetennis "Please sync freetennis 0.4.8-5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241249
<james_w> Laney: thanks
<james_w> askand: sorry, that should of course be the first step, check to see if the work has already been done. In this case it has, sorry.
 * rzr waves _o/
<askand> ï»¿james_w:  oh
<TheMuso> dholbach: I'm still here, I'm just being careful with a somewhat hackish change in zsnes. :)
<james_w> though in this case it apparently happened concurrently, so there was little we could have done.
<dholbach> TheMuso: I didn't think you had vanished :)
<directhex> dholbach, can never have too many mono merges
<dholbach> Mr TheMuso-vich :)
<dholbach> directhex: hm?
<TheMuso> dholbach: har har har. That still makes me laugh.
<james_w> askand: in this case Debian adopted our changes, so we can take their package directly, which is what it means by "sync".
<james_w> askand: sorry about that. If you like we can look at another package.
<directhex> dholbach, LP:240671
<dholbach> bug 240671
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240671 in mono "Mono 1.9.1 crashes with native stacktrace whilst compiling XSP on AMD64" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240671
<dholbach> directhex: what about it?
<directhex> dholbach, just commenting. it's the second merge in a couple of weeks, and i wouldn't be surprised if there were more, when more bugs appear
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> I don't know any mono at all, that's why I asked slomo to take a look at it
<rzr> vorian: around ?
 * dholbach takes a look at xgrep
<RAOF> bigon: Cool; that'll be syncable then.
 * TheMuso takes a look at ming
<nixternal> wgrant: dunno why it is still doing that...file a bug upstream on that please
<nixternal> for smb4k that is
<askand> ï»¿james_w: no worries :) i think I come back later a bit
<james_w> askand: great.
 * TheMuso looks at paprefs.
 * dholbach lunches
<rzr> I guess I have to RTFM again :)
<rzr> As a debian maintainer I am about to release a package which closes some ubuntu bugs, should I also add (LP:#xyz) in debian/control when possible?
<directhex> ooh, that'd be nice
<rzr> i cant find this info on the wiki
<rzr> let's ommit them then
 * TheMuso looks at extace
<RAOF> rzr: You're very welcome to add LP:#xyz tags.  To debian/changelog (that's what you meant, right?).  The syntax is exactly the same as for the BTS, but with "LP: #" rather than "closes: #".
<rzr> no my question  was
<rzr> can I mix Closes:# and LP:# on the same release ?
<RAOF> Yes, absolutely.
<rzr> are you sure ?
<RAOF> The BTS understands closes: and ignores LP:, launchpad understands LP: and ignores closes:
<directhex> which is why LP uses LP: and not closes:
<rzr> but debian doesnt care about derived distro bug trackers
<rzr> so this info is useless to debian
<RAOF> That's right.
<rzr> well I wanted to make sure
<RAOF> It would be nice if you added them, but you're certainly not expected or obligated to do so :)
<rzr> I see benefits and drawbacks :)
<rzr> polution vs factorisation
<rzr> let's add both then
<RAOF> Very good of you, thanks :).
<rzr> thank you RAOF , now Let's open a debian specific help desk for copperation
 * TheMuso looks at guidedog
 * TheMuso looks at rpld
<RAOF> rzr: You mean, the Ubuntu version of the Debian utnubu team? :)
<rzr> we'll call it the naibed team
 * TheMuso looks at apcalc
<RAOF> That's got a bit of a ring to it.
<Hobbsee> 238 outstanding.  ouch
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Yeah, clearing the sponsors queue will help get that down somewhat.
<afflux> siretart: hi... I have some questions about the cryptsetup initramfs script
<afflux> siretart: first thing is, I wonder why we don't use udev_settle anymore, and do a "normal" 3-minute sleep
<afflux> siretart: second thing is, the break condition in this sleep waits for ${ROOT}, which is the "resulting" device, instead of the cryptsource. I think this is why the sleep does not work for me (on my system, it just hangs. looking at the source, it should be working after 3 minutes though, because the panic condition some lines later checks for $cryptsource again).
<wgrant> Has anybody upgraded to Intrepid recently? Am I likely to be condemning my system to a fiery death if I try it now?
<jpds> wgrant: Hobbsee has.
<afflux> siretart: third thing is, after manually changing the initramfs script  I found out that neither /sbin/cryptsetup nor /lib/cryptsetup/askpass exist. both are referred to from the script.
<afflux> wgrant: it works quite well on my desktop machine, currently, except the cryptroot I mentioned above ;)
<Hobbsee> wgrant: no, it should be reasonable.  i'd be interested to see if your mime types bugger up though
<wgrant> Hobbsee: We shall see, though I don't use anything that uses mimetypes.
 * wgrant stopped using cryptroot a while ago.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: right, so you don't use nautilus.
<siretart> afflux: yeah, I noticed that my merge isn't correct yet. I'm still at setting up a kvm instance for testing
<afflux> siretart: it looks like I have a quick solution for the third thing
<Hobbsee> wgrant: no matter what you double click on, it'll load in whatever the last program you set was.
<siretart> afflux: AFAIC, even in hardy plain crypted partitions seem to be somehwat broken. I see that when I'm trying to manually set them up (read: without d-i)
<Hobbsee> at least, that's what i'm finding
<siretart> afflux: are you famillar with bzr? - if yes please fix that in a branch. that makes it easier for me to review, okay?
<afflux> yup okay
<afflux> siretart: udev_settle or (fixed) manual waiting?
<afflux> where manual waiting is "check for partition every 100ms"
<siretart> sorry?
<afflux> siretart: we have two ways to wait for the cryptsource, if it didn't appear yet. We used to use "udevadm settle --timeout=30" in hardy, but changed to do a 180*100ms sleep
<siretart> afflux: I think the loop is the only reliable way to go.
<afflux> okay
<siretart> afflux: because udevsettle only helps if the kernel is currently processing an event which might cause the device to pop up
<afflux> I see
<siretart> afflux: if you have a very slow device, like an pendrive or slow scsi device that needs intensive initialisiation, udev_settle wont help you
<afflux> siretart: which branch should I use for branching? ~siretart/cryptsetup/ubuntu or ~ubuntu-core-dev/cryptsetup/ubuntu
<siretart> the one with the latest commit. I think it is the latter one
<afflux> okay thanks
<vorian> rzr, I am now
<siretart> afflux: btw, if you think you think you fixed a bug in a bzr commit, do a 'bzr commit --fixes lp:12345' with the correct bugnumber. lp will automatically associate your branch with the bug
<afflux> oh okay, nice to know, thanks
<ffm> Hey, I'm a bit bored. How can I search through needs-packaging requests?
<wgrant> ffm: Just do an advanced search for the needs-packaging tag at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?advanced=1
<ffm> wgrant: thanks.
<dholbach> TheMuso is doing AWESOME work in the sponsoring queue
<dholbach> let's join him!
<emgent> rheya dholbach :)
 * Laney highfives TheMuso 
<Laney> Thanks for the uploads :D
<TheMuso> dholbach: No longer unfrotunately, I'm starting to find it hard to concentrate, as its getting late  here, so I'll have to call it a night, but will attempt to find time tomorrw to do some more.
<TheMuso> gah as evident by my typing. :p
<dholbach> TheMuso: I'll do some myself - who else is interested?
 * Laney is going to carry on giving you stuff to sponsor ;)
 * dholbach checks out sdlmame
 * DktrKranz did 5/6 earlier, will do more this evening
<dholbach> woohoo
<dholbach> thanks DktrKranz
 * dholbach high-fives DktrKranz and TheMuso
 * DktrKranz high-five-a-day dholbach 
<dholbach> hehe
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Are you an avscan user or were you just triaging in general when you marked up an avscan bug earlier today.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: just triaging.
<ScottK> OK.
 * ScottK was hoping for someone to package a new upstream.
<DktrKranz> IIRC, I subscribed (or assigned) to a bug, feel free to take it if you want to.
 * dholbach takes a look at keurocalc-kde4
<afflux> siretart: my branch is https://code.launchpad.net/~afflux/cryptsetup/ubuntu.initramfs-fixes . The latest changes are not tested yet, I'll do that now.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: myon put it into adoption (or orphaned it), it could be interesting to take maintainership.
<ScottK> Yes.  I'm hoping someone will do that.
 * ScottK doesn't use it either, but it's a clamav rdepend and currently FTBFS in Intrepid needing the new version.
<siretart> afflux: yes, your commits look pretty relevant. will merge them!
<afflux> siretart: okay, worked. Only thing is: when not using usplash I get two warnings about not being able to run /sbin/udevsettle because it does not exist. They don't seem to be critical (for me?) though. I also get the message described in bug 151532. But, as the initial reporter states too, the system boots up without any further problems.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: if you need it, I can have a look at it, maintaining packages is fine, especially if they are needed by others
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I've played with it in testing a bit and it looks like a reasonably decent anti-virus frontend.  I think it's worth keeping.
<ScottK> If you want to adopt it in Debian, I know who I could get to sponsor you.
<DktrKranz> myon directly?
<ScottK> Actually I was thinking sgran (the clamav maintainer).
<DktrKranz> I haven't a fixex sponsor
<ScottK> He's been decent about sponsoring clamav related NMUs for me.
<DktrKranz> I can give it a try, I need to understand package logic before, since I'm not a user, it could be harder
<ScottK> It seems reasonably well designed.
<ScottK> When I was trying to get clamav 0.92 back to Dapper avscan was a tough one.
<DktrKranz> any particular issues?
<siretart> afflux: cool. thanks for your commits, I'll merge them into the next upload!
<ScottK> I ended up taking the Feisty package, using the Dapper debian/rules, grabbing one file that had the libclamav interfaces out of the avscan internals of the hardy package, slamming them all together and it worked.
<ScottK> I couldn't backport the entire Hardy package due to other dependency issues.
<DktrKranz> mh... sounds complex
<ScottK> In any case that fact that that worked suggest to me a reasonably well designed program with good stable internals.
<ScottK> That was complex., but it was a one time problem.
<ScottK> The biggest issue with it is it'll need watching as clamav evolves as they have a habit of doing interface changes with no warning.
<ScottK> avscan upstream seems responsive to it though.
<DktrKranz> are they linked or follow a separate development plan?
<ScottK> Separate.  avscan is a user of libclamav.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Why don't you look at what it'd take to get the new avscan packaged and see how comfortable you are with it.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: If you need to build against the new clamav on Hardy, it's in the ubuntu-clamav PPA: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clamav/+archive
<DktrKranz> I was thinking about it, since we want clamav and no-one jump in to take responsibility in Debian so fare
<ScottK> Currently we have 3 A/V gui packages: Klamav, Clamtk, and Avscan.
<ScottK> Klamav is very KDE focused.  Clamtk is somewhat limited.  I think having Avscan is useful.
<ScottK> It's still under development, so it may well end up being the best of them.
<DktrKranz> Avscan is for GNOME, I suppose
<DktrKranz> gtk+1.2, wasn't it being removed from Debian?
<ScottK> Ah.  That was the other problem.
<ScottK> I knew there was something.
<ScottK> Who knows, maybe the new version is updated ...
<DktrKranz> let's see
<ScottK> If not, it'd still be useful to get it updated in Ubuntu so eventually I can backport clamav 0.93 and later.
<DktrKranz> looking at myon's comments, new version requires new endeavour, and SONAME handling seems problematic
<wgrant> ScottK: Have you not yet managed to convince upstream to be less distro-hostile?
<ScottK> So it's a 'learning experience'.
<ScottK> wgrant: No.
<ScottK> I've asked them to add some Ubuntu specific info to their web site just yesterday.  We'll see how that goes.
<DktrKranz> mh... avscan homepage is unreachable
<ScottK> That's not a good sign.
<ScottK> I can get to it.  It's just pretty empty.
<ScottK> Sorry.  Wrong page.
<DktrKranz> I get 404
 * ScottK too.
<cyberix> I have a package in Hardy. The upstream has released a new release. Should I create a huge debdiff and try to get that applied for intrepid or what?
<cyberix> i.e. are debdiffs the right tool for all package upgrades?
<LucidFox> cyberix> Only within the same upstream version
<LucidFox> for a new upstream version, attach the diff.gz
<cyberix> LucidFox: Should that contain both packaging and upstream changes or only upstream changes?
<LucidFox> Erm... it should contain only packaging changes
<LucidFox> diff.gzs by definition contain only packaging changes
<cyberix> LucidFox: So how do I get the upstream tar ball updated?
<LucidFox> cyberix> The sponsor will download it
<LucidFox> and your diff.gz
<directhex> (try using uupdate, it's made for this kind of thing)
<cyberix> The new upstream release goes throught revu?
<LucidFox> cyberix> No.
<LucidFox> REVU is only for new packages.
<LucidFox> cyberix> You file a bug report on LP, attach the diff.gz and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<cyberix> LucidFox: And how do the sponsor know he should get the new upstream tar ball?
<persia> cyberix: debian/watch or debian/rules get-orig-source :)
<cyberix> And if I'm not aware of the new upstream release, then things will break.
<ivoks> motu wannabes?
<ivoks> there's one very simple task if someone is interested
<persia> ivoks: We try not to use that term :)  What's the task?
 * santiago-ve rises hand but is at work ATM
<ivoks> there's wifi-radar package in ubuntu
<ivoks> it is very old and i'm an official maintainer
<ivoks> it's time to drop it and merge debian's package
<ivoks> there are only two patches that should be applied to new debian package
<ivoks> it's dpatch system, IIRC
<ivoks> so, low hanging fruit
<ivoks> if no one is interested, i'll do it, but it looks like good exercise...
<vorian> ivoks: I requested a sync with bug #240809 for wifi radar
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240809 in ubuntu "Please sync wifi-radar 1.9.9-1.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240809
<ivoks> vorian: right, wifi-radar was packaged for ubuntu first, and then for debian, so weare out of sync for a very long time; it's time to move on and drop our package
<vorian> ah, good good
<ivoks> santiago-ve: interested?
<santiago-ve> ivoks: aye, but werrr not for now... at work atm :p
<dholbach> ivoks: vorian requested a sync - is a merge necessary?
<ivoks> dholbach: there is one GUI related patch
<ivoks> and one for atheros cards... i don't have atheros, so i can't tell if it's needed any more
<dholbach> right
<vorian> hmm
<ivoks> blaa.... just sync it and move on... just one note
<ivoks> last time i checked debian's package, it asked questions during install
<ivoks> and it didn't have daemon
<ivoks> while ubuntu package didn't ask questions and had daemon for auto-connecting
<ivoks> you are free to decide, i don't mind any of those two options
<siretart> afflux: I just uploaded your changes to intrepid. thanks for your commits, and keep up your good work! :)
<afflux> siretart: thanks and you're welcome ;)
<rzr> go a message for me ? i lost it
<nand> Hi! I've one package, ike, that is now present on intrepid, and which was not a debian merge (packaged only for Ubuntu). It's now also present in Debian. Upstream plans to do a release this week end: I'll update the debian package on Debian. The deadline in this situation is the debian import freeze, or the feature freeze?
<nand> (forgot one sentence in the middle :) => I want to push this new version to ubuntu)
<mario_limonciell> nand, you can pull the update from debian afterward after DIF, you will just manually need to request a sync
<mario_limonciell> the DIF turns off all automatic syncing
<nand> ah ok! So the deadline in this case is feature freeze
<nand> cool, thanks!
<mario_limonciell> nand, but if you can do it sooner than feature freeze, that's more ideal as you don't have to go and prod as many people :)
<nand> I guess so :)
<HoellP> hello, can anyone help me with debian packaging?
<HoellP> i set up everything and it seems to work
<HoellP> but when i try to build, i get the following error:
<HoellP> checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool
<HoellP> make: *** [config.status] Error 1
<ScottK> Then you're missing a build-dep.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> HoellP: try libxml-parser-perl
<HoellP> but i can't control the packages controlled by pbuilder, can i?
<HoellP> ah
<HoellP> *working*
<highvoltage> g'night motus
<cody-somerville> night highvoltage
<norsetto> heya heya
<RainCT> hey norsetto
<norsetto> Hola RainCT
<RainCT> :)
<geser> Hi norsetto
<norsetto> heya geser, any new event on the horizon?
<lukehasnoname> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119081/
<norsetto> huats!!!
<laga> i love that movie. it's a bit scary sometimes tho
<huats> norsetto: !!!
 * norsetto must be the only living being on this planet that not only has not seen that movie but before yesterday didn't even know it existed
 * ajmitch waits for the laptop to load to be able to see what it is
<ajmitch> ubuntu needs to boot faster :)
<persia> ajmitch: You need a solid-state drive...
<laga> no. ubuntu needs to boot faster. :)
<ajmitch> wouldn't make it much faster
<persia> Well, maybe.  I recently saw a 27 second bootchart for Ubuntu.
 * ajmitch needs to not run certain things like apache, mysql/postgresql, zope, etc on the laptop
<persia> Yes.  That would do it :)
<laga> heh
<ajmitch> oh, and an openldap server, of course
<ajmitch> all the useful things I need to test on a box somewhere :)
<persia> ajmitch: Hmm.  You need a laptop with two distinct computers (one headless with internal serial console bridge).  That way you can boot quick for client stuff, and still play with your server.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> sadly it's because it's faster than the desktop box I have at work
<james_w> persia: mind if I take cecilia out for a dance?
<persia> james_w: Please do.  If you find a way to get her to play with the updated csound, I'd be especially happy.
<james_w> you mean debian bug 438611??
<ubottu> Debian bug 438611 in cecilia "[unmetdepds] cecilia has unmet dependancies" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/438611
<james_w> or debian bug 476300?
<ubottu> Debian bug 476300 in cecilia "cecilia: Does not work with new csound 5" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/476300
<Zombie> I have an advisory for Ubuntu Hardy/.
<Zombie> The version of Open Arena included is Deprecated.
<Zombie> And will not play on line with other Open Arena servers.
<ScottK> What does deprecated mean in Open Arean terms?
<ScottK> Ah.
<ajmitch> various games tend to do this, unfortunately
<norsetto> james_w: I think bug 438611 is obsolete now
<Zombie> Another game that is broken, but because of technical issues is Warzone 2100
<Zombie> Warzone 2100 used to operate fine under Gutsy.
<Zombie> Now it skips like it uses software rendering
<ajmitch> are there bugs failed about these issues in launchpad?
<james_w> norsetto: yep, I just followed the paper trail all the way to the end.
<norsetto> filed failed or failed filed?
<ajmitch> norsetto: forgive me, I was looking at another screen while typing :P
<Zombie> One more bug.
<Zombie> OpenVPN deletes its own user account when upgrading from Gutsy causing it not to launch.
<norsetto> ajmitch: ever seen my typing? Thats something to ask to be excused about
<ajmitch> Zombie: again, launchpad is the first place to go to put in bugs
<ajmitch> it may still get lost, but at least there'll be a record of it beyond 5 minutes of IRC :)
<EagleScreen> hello
<EagleScreen> i am learning to use pbuilder
<EagleScreen> what happens if i am running Debian and i want to build a Ubuntu hardy package?
<EagleScreen> i think i should use: sudo pbuilder update --distribution DIST-NAME --override-config
<EagleScreen> in addiction, should I change repositories to hardy?
<persia> EagleScreen: You might want to get debootstrap and pbuilder from Ubuntu to ease creating the chroot, but once you have a chroot, you can just build normally.
<persia> Note that there are some extra checks in the developer tools (e.g. dpkg-buildpackage) in Ubuntu to verify complinace with additional Ubuntu policies that you'll miss working from Debian: it may also be worth having a working chroot with Ubuntu for building the packages.
<EagleScreen> but i want to build for Debian and also for Ubuntu
<james_w> persia: hmm, do you know if the patch in debian bug 476300 is sufficient for the updated csound?
<ubottu> Debian bug 476300 in cecilia "cecilia: Does not work with new csound 5" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/476300
<ScottK> persia: The Debian debchroot knows about Ubuntu releases.
<persia> ScottK: It does?  Cool.
 * persia hasn't used Debian dev tools in a bit.
<james_w> if an upload fixes a CVE then do I need to do anything more than mention the CVE number for it to be correctly tracked?
<persia> james_w: My memory from the csound mailing list was that there was a more complex issue involved, and that the regex described served more to protect cecilia than as the main cause of incompatibility.  You might test it, and see what you find.
<ScottK> james_w: There is a separate CVE tracker.
<james_w> ScottK: is it based on changelog notification, or is it more manual than that?
<ScottK> It's more manual than that.
<persia> Anyone from MOTU SWAT around?
<ScottK> emgent would know the details.
<persia> james_w: If nobody steps up with details, ask in #ubuntu-hardened
<EagleScreen> then, i dont need to change nothing to build for Ubuntu??
<ScottK> james_w: You should also go back and look at which supported releases are also vulnerable.
<james_w> there's no bug in lp, so I want to make sure that it gets picked up as we get the fix for free.
<james_w> ah -hardened, thanks.
<emgent> uhm ?
<persia> james_w: Please do create a bug in LP, and link the bug to a CVE.
<ScottK> james_w: Yeah.  You'll want to make bug and then nominate it for all affected releases.
<ScottK> james_w: Now that emgent is here, I'm sure he can guide you through the process.
<EagleScreen> i will investigate
<persia> And subscribe ubuntu-security or motu-swat, as appropriate
<ScottK> EagleScreen: You need to make a pbuilder chroot for the appropriate ubuntu release, but you can do it using the Debian packages.
<james_w> hi emgent, I'm merging a package that includes a CVE fix from Debian, and I just want to make sure that I do the right things.
<emgent> hi james_w uhm, ok
 * ScottK needs to run off.  See you all later.
<emgent> please join -hardened we can talk in this room
<emgent> bye ScottK
<EagleScreen> thanks Scottk, i supuse it must be done using command i said, but is needed anything more? may be temporaly use ubuntu repository in menu.lst???
<EagleScreen> godbye scottk
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-20
<blueyed> Uploading to upload.ubuntu.com fails: "Connection failed, aborting. Check your network (111, 'Connection refused')" - temp. problems?
<wgrant> blueyed: Scheduled Hardy upgrades.
<wgrant> For another 4 hours.
<blueyed> wgrant: ah.. forgot about that one. Thanks.
<vadi2> How can I make my installed program via a .deb I made appear in Add/Remove, not only in synaptic?
<persia> vadi2: Create a desktop file for your application.  If it is a GUI application, this ought be a regular .desktop file.  If it is not a GUI application, you will want to have a special .desktop file.  You may want to look at the app-install-data package for information about the required construction.
<vadi2> ï»¿persia: I did make a .desktop file, yes. It appears in applications menu properly
<directhex> look at the app-install-data package
<vadi2> I see. So I should stuff the .desktop into '/usr/share/app-install/desktop/' too?
<vadi2> (that's what that package does with a bunch of .desktops)
<persia> vadi2: You already have a .desktop, and it doesn't show?  You may need some extra keys then, but /usr/share/applications/ is the right place for it.
<vadi2> I think I got it, it needs a 'X-AppInstall-Package
<vadi2> ' key. I'll test in a sec.
<wgrant> persia, vadi2: /usr/share/applications is for installed applications, I don't believe that gnome-app-install looks there.
<wgrant> Oh, you mean for picking up by mvo later? Right.
<persia> wgrant: Right.  Pushing things directly into app-install-data is not ideal, with the exception of server packages with insufficient internationalisation to support multilinugal installation through the .desktop files (where putting it in app-install-data helps get that right).
<persia> (and these exceptions are only really meaningful for main)
<persia> vadi2: wgrant does raise a good point: once your ,desktop file has all the right keys, you'll have to wait for an update to app-install-data before it appears, although the change oughtn't be made in the app-install-data source directly.
<vadi2> persia: so what is the proper way to have it appear right away in there?
<persia> vadi2: There isn't one.
<vadi2> hrm. but then the user can't uninstall a .deb I made without using the synaptic or terminal, which is bad.
<persia> I suppose, long term, someone might write a script that regenerated app-install-data daily (or more often), but in practice such freqency is rarely relevant.  Usually it gets prepared prior to each milestone release (Alpha, Beta, RC, Final)
<persia> vadi2: How are they installing it?
<vadi2> via a .deb I made
<persia> With gdebi or some such?
<vadi2> yeah.
<vadi2> I think it would make sense to be able to trigger app-install-data to regenerate it's index via a package
<persia> Ah.  That's not really supported, and users who choose to do that are expected to be able to deal with the consequences.
<vadi2> Why? my program is a commercial one, and I can't afford to use canonical's partner repository.
<persia> Review the source, create a patch.  For that package, branches from trunk on LP are the preferred mechanism to present code changes.
<vadi2> eh?
<wgrant> vadi2: How were you planning on getting the .desktop into the user's system in the first place?
<vadi2> ï»¿wgrant: I made a .deb which installs it
<wgrant> But you can't get a file installed by a .deb to give instructions to the user on how to install said .deb.
<vadi2> ?
<vadi2> Not sure what do you mean. The .deb installs the program, the .desktop, and the icon.
<vadi2> The program appears in the Applications category properly.
<wgrant> There's no point adding it to gnome-app-install if it's only going to appear there when it's already installed...
<vadi2> The lil problem is that the user has no way of removing it unless they're comfortable with the terminal/synaptic. I'd like to appear it in add/remove.
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> Well, that's not going to be supported here, I don't think.
<persia> It's an interesting use case, but it really needs someone to drive the code, as mvo is unlikely to write such functionality.
<wgrant> Rather unlikely indeed.
<vadi2> I think it's a pretty important one, not everyone would like to use the partner repository and still be able to make ubuntu installation of the program easy.
<persia> If the work was done well, and in a style matching that of the application, it may be merged though, as support for easy uninstallation of third-party packages may be interesting to many.
<wgrant> But I cannot imagine a Canonical employee would be paid to do that - that would be very silly on their part.
<persia> To write the code?  Unlikely.  To merge the code, maybe.
<vadi2> Okay, I guess I'll hold off on that and just use an archive for distribution. Thanks for the explanation.
<wgrant>  /win 54
<wgrant> Gah.
<persia> kirkland: Just saw your wiki question.  Is there an example pacakge that illustrates the issue?
<kirkland> persia: i'm working on pam at the moment
<kirkland> persia: http://merges.ubuntu.com/p/pam/REPORT
<kirkland> persia: i think i'm doing the right thing... i just thought the algorithm in the wiki document might be updated for such cases
<persia> kirkland: Right, I'm just trying to understand the situation, so as to document it.
<persia> There are a number of different things that could happen to cause a "no conflict" merge report.
<kirkland> persia: ah, gotcha
<emgent> heya kirkland persia
<persia> kirkland: Just for verification, by "no conflicts" do you mean the report says "No problems were encountered during the merge, so a source package has been produced along with a patch containing the differences from the Debian version to the new version."?
<kirkland> persia: see: http://merges.ubuntu.com/p/pam/REPORT
<kirkland> persia: yes, to your question
<kirkland> emgent: hiya sir
<persia> kirkland: That's exactly the source from which I copied the phrase :)
<kirkland> persia: right, this is the first merge i've ever worked on where there *are no conflicts* :-)
<kirkland> persia: so I think the appropriate thing to do is just skip the conflict resolution step
<kirkland> persia: and proceed on with the documentation of dropped/remaining changes
<persia> kirkland: Well, I think it's worth reviewing all the changes anyway.  Imagine the case where Ubuntu adds 54_remove_wonkiness.patch and Debian adds 67_dewonkify.patch, and they patch the same file differently.  This will show as no conflict in MoM, but will cause a FTBFS.  In a more subtle case, it might just break something at runtime.
<persia> kirkland: In this specific case, I think I'd recommend chatting with the person who uploaded the updated Debian version, as the same person later added patches to the Ubuntu version without including the Debian bugfix patch.
<kirkland> persia: yessir, i'm hanging around here looking for slangasek, in case he comes back online later
<persia> kirkland: More generally, it looks like all the things I would recommend doing in this case also apply in the general case, and aren't documented in this guide.  I'll likely not update it today, but I would be adding these checks to the general process, rather than adding separate workflow for the no-conflict case.
<kirkland> persia: awesome, thanks for the advice
<persia> kirkland: Getting back to specifics, these patches don't clash: it's probably worth reviewing Debian bug #446327 to understand it, and maybe speaking with the uploader as to why we didn7t want it before.
<ubottu> Debian bug 446327 in libpam-modules "pam_tally audit option locks out root" [Important,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/446327
<persia> Actually, reading that, it makes sense.  Root is locked out anyway, so we don't care.
<kirkland> slangasek: hey, thought i'd get some late-evening packaging practice in.  i merged pam from 0.99.7.1-5ubuntu7 to 0.99.7.1-6 for intrepid.  no conflicts, so it was mainly constructing the changelog of dropped/remaining differences.  i also threw in the fix for 64064.  uploaded to chinstrap:~kirkland/pam.intrepid.
<DBO> has anyone heard from RAOF lately, hes here but MIA lately...
<DBO> (sorry to just barge in and ask, i figure if hes been active anywhere, here would be the place)
<persia> kirkland: As much as specific people are helpful to contact, I'd also encourage you to attach the debdiff to a bug, and subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors.  This both raises visibility to the sponsoring developers and serves as a public indicator that the merge has been done, so nobody else is tempted to attempt it.
<persia> DBO: He's been active most days this week.
<DBO> persia, thank you, do you remember what times?  I have been trying to catch him
<persia> DBO: I'm not that good with time.
<DBO> okay
<DBO> thank you
<persia> freeflying: Did you get anywhere with the fbreader merge?  I've been passed some additional patches, so wanted to either share, or take back the merge.
<freeflying> persia: I've noticed the maintainer will have new upload in sid, so waiting for his upload
<persia> freeflying: OK.  Maybe I'll push the extra patches into Ubuntu, and the merge can happen when the maintainer uploads?  Would that work for you?
<freeflying> persia: maybe you can mail the maintainer your patch, he has filed RFS recently
<freeflying> persia: its up to you :)
<persia> freeflying: OK.  Last I looked the patch was lpia-specific, so I'm not sure it's Debian-interesting :)
<freeflying> persia: hehe :)
<freeflying> persia: then it should be ok for me
<persia> freeflying: Just checked.  Other than the lpia stuff, there's a 'r' -> 'R' in a .desktop file (which is being patched anyway).  I'll just get it up today then.
<freeflying> persia: thats great!
<dholbach> good morning
<Iulian> Morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi Iulian
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hi geser
<geser> Hi dholbach
<TheMuso> c
 * ScottK waits for the ugh.
 * StevenK chuckles
<TheMuso> Thats long gone. :)
<geser> Hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey geser.
<elmargol> Does debian use tmpfs vor /var/run aswell?
<geser> afaik no
<ScottK> Not by default, but any Debian user is free to configure their system that way.
<mouz> Anyone: is there a written policy that executables must be lower case? I searched for it but did not find it.
<slangasek> no, there are executables who have uppercase letters in their names because that's the upstream convention
<\sh> moins
<mouz> slangasek: the fast majority has lower case in /usr/bin. So I'd like to rename CamelCase to lower case. Can I do that?
<slangasek> uh - you mean you have a program whose name is CamelCase?
<slangasek> because that would be an incredibly ironic renaming :)
<mouz> :)
<mouz> TouchFreeze
<slangasek> there's no policy against renaming it, either
<slangasek> there are times when upstream executable names can't be used due to namespace conflicts, so
<mouz> i think i just rename it, mention that in changelog without reason
<ScottK> Why do you want to rename it?
<wgrant> ScottK: To break compatibility with anybody who wants to use it, of course.
<ScottK> That was my guess.
<wgrant> Uh.
<wgrant> Are incomplete bugs now meant to be assigned to the person who is meant to give the information, or is somebody breaking the rules?
<ScottK> I
<ScottK> I'll go with breaking the rules.
<james_w> wgrant: that was old procedure before you could search for bugs you were subscribed to apparently.
<wgrant> james_w: You have been able to search for bugs to which you are subscribed since before 2006.
<wgrant> james_w: And that doesn't explain this situation - a triager assigned it to the person who needed to provide the information (ie. the reporter), not themselves.
<james_w> oh, sorry, I misunderstood, that's just odd then.
<directhex> tseliot, lucky you, nvidia 177.13 is now officially out. and i hear work of ati's new cards shipping with a new driver which i can only assume is 8.7
<wgrant> directhex: Catalyst 8.6, I believe.
<directhex> wgrant, 8.6 claims no 4000-series support
<directhex> not to say it's not there, but going by the readme, i assume it ain't
<tseliot> ï»¿directhex: I have packaged the 4 flavours of the NVIDIA driver for Intrepid, however Intrepid's kernel is Xen-enabled and doesn't work with the patches for Xen for the NVIDIA driver. BenC will work on a new patch.
<wgrant> 4 flavours!?
<directhex> wgrant, fun, isn't it
<tseliot> ï»¿directhex: as regards ATI, I will package 8.6 for EnvyNG while Mario will package it for Intrepid
<tseliot> wgrant: yes, and I'm the new maintainer
<tseliot> ï»¿wgrant: I'm having a lot of fun...
<wgrant> tseliot: So I heard.
<huats> does anyone can give me some details on the role of the lintian directory in debian/ in a package ?
<james_w> huats: I think that usually stores lintian overrides
<james_w> they tell lintian to not complain about a specific problem.
<james_w> they should be reviewed to ensure they are not masking a real issue.
<huats> ok
<huats> james_w: thanks
<james_w> no problem
<huats> james_w: in fact I am facing that in a merge (it is present in the debian package)
<huats> so I will have a closer look at it
<huats> :)
<huats> james_w: the lintian warning that it is handling is binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath
<colinl> hi \sh and everyone!
<colinl> \sh: this should please you: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/claws-mail/+bug/241587 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241587 in claws-mail "bugfix batch for Hardy's Claws Mail" [Undecided,New]
<\sh> colinl: ah sru :)
<\sh> colinl: thx :)
<\sh> colinl: would you like to update your debdiff and follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates?highlight=(StableReleaseUpdates) ? :)
<YokoZar> Is the backports team really busy with 8.04.1 stuff?  I'd like to poke them about Wine 1.0 :)
<colinl> \sh: sure
<colinl> \sh: I mainly have to document how to reproduce the differents bugs the patches fix?
<\sh> colinl: that would be a plus, yes :)
<colinl> ok
<colinl> how can I subscribe to motu-sru? I can't find an "Apply" link
<wgrant> colinl: Why would you want to do that?
<colinl> wgrant: to propose an SRU
<wgrant> colinl: motu-sru reviews SRUs - you don't join the team.
<colinl> ok
<wgrant> You subscribe it to the bug.
<colinl> \sh: I don't really have to update the debdiff itself, in fact, do I?
<\sh> colinl: the version string is not correct according to SRU policies
<colinl> ah sorry
<colinl> \sh: claws-mail (3.3.1-1ubuntu3build1) hardy-proposed; urgency=low ?
<wgrant> !info claws-mail hardy
<ubottu> claws-mail (source: claws-mail): Fast, lightweight and user-friendly GTK2 based email client. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.3.1-1ubuntu3 (hardy), package size 1231 kB, installed size 2976 kB
<wgrant> 3.3.1-1ubuntu3.1
<colinl> thanks wgrant
<\sh> 3.3.1-1ubuntu3
<norsetto> good your-time-of-the-day
<colinl> updated :)
<wgrant> \sh: That's the version in hardy-release..
<norsetto> emgent: any news on eggdrop?
<Rudd-O> hello there, need help with packaging
<Rudd-O> when I do apt-get source dbus, this happens: unlink("dbus-1.1.20/debian/patches/03_fix_inotify.patch.dpkg-orig") = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) <- this is the second-last line before the write+exit(1)
<Rudd-O> my goal is to compile an ubuntu package of the SVN version of dbus
<Rudd-O> any quick tutorial that gets me there?
<polo> hello everybody7
<norsetto> Rudd-O: do you have intrepid enabled as a src repository?
<Rudd-O> no
<Rudd-O> why?
<Rudd-O> I have hardy
<Rudd-O> I need a fix that went a few days ago into dbus svn
<Rudd-O> because otherwise it fails with ZFS
<Rudd-O> I am running ZFS in /var and /usr and /home
<Rudd-O> this fix also benefits ntfs3g users
<Rudd-O> and I need it like now
<Rudd-O> no dbus, no modern desktop environment
<norsetto> Rudd-O: You better use the latest src package
<Rudd-O> I doubt that the latest intrepid package has the fix
<Rudd-O> so I want to build the latest package but using the dpkg data
<Rudd-O> anyway
<Rudd-O> why is apt-get source failing on me, with the official hardy package?
<Rudd-O> i know it's the dpkg-source routine that is failing
<Rudd-O> but WHY?
<norsetto> Rudd-O: no idea. I tried the intrepid one and there is no problem
<norsetto> Rudd-O: you can also use -t intrepid if you don't want to change your sources.list
<Rudd-O> ook
<Rudd-O> let's try that
<Rudd-O> apt-get -t intrepid source dbus?
<norsetto> Rudd-O: yes
<Rudd-O> Des:2 http://mirrors.kernel.org hardy-updates/main dbus 1.1.20-1ubuntu2 (tar) [1402kB]
<Rudd-O> that didn't work
<Rudd-O> still gets from hardy
<Rudd-O> idea?
<Rudd-O> same problem
<wgrant> Do other sources work?
<Rudd-O> no
<Rudd-O> same problem with fuse source
 * wgrant would blame your strange FS setup.
<Rudd-O> hardly
<norsetto> Rudd-O: than you just miss some build-essential
<james_w> Rudd-O: is it just complaining about signatures?
<Rudd-O> there is a complaint about signatures, publc key not found
<Rudd-O> but that has nothing to do with dpkg-source's attempt to delete a nonexistent file!
<Rudd-O> dpkg-source: fallo: eliminar copia de seguridad de parche dbus-1.1.20/debian/patches/03_fix_inotify.patch.dpkg-orig: No existe el fichero Ã³ directorio
<Rudd-O> again, the filesystem is orthogonal to the issue
<norsetto> Rudd-O: it might be perpendicular too but the problem is in your machine
<Rudd-O> so?  any ideas on how to track this issue down?
<Rudd-O> let me strace it all
<persia> Rudd-O: run dpkg-source under the perl debugger
<\sh> wgrant: grmpf...3.3.1-1ubuntu3.1 is the new one for SRU
 * \sh was in between four tasks
<Rudd-O> here was it sais
<Rudd-O> apt-get source downloads the stuff and places it into the directory
<Rudd-O> then apt-source successfully untars the file and runs patch
<Rudd-O> and the patch *succeeds*
<Rudd-O> then dpkg-source attempts to delete a file ending in .dpkg-orig which doesn't exist there
<Rudd-O> *boom* goes the terrorist
<Rudd-O> I don't need the perl debugger to figure that out
<Rudd-O> let's read the source, see what the hell it's trying to do
<Rudd-O> there is someting else I would like to know
<Rudd-O> how come there is a debian/patches in the source dir, and there is ALSO a .diff.gz in the pwd?
<persia> Rudd-O: lsdiff -z foo.diff.gz to answer the last question
<Rudd-O> lemme install that tool
<Rudd-O> no such package lsdiff
<Rudd-O> > aptitude search lsdiff
<Rudd-O> 0 bytes reply
<persia> Rudd-O: patchutils
<Rudd-O> ok
<Rudd-O> installing...
<Rudd-O> hey, anyone here work at google?
<Rudd-O> ok so the .diff.gz gets uncompressed in the source tree?  neato.
<persia> Rudd-O: Right.  That's how Debian-format packaging works.  The orig.tar.gz matches upstream, the diff.gz is all the patches and packaging, and the .dsc contains some meta information and checksum hashes for the two content files.
<Rudd-O> okay
<Rudd-O> interesting,v ery interesting, I'm learning a lot now
<Rudd-O> well, I have surpassed the dpkg-source problem by manually untarring and patching
<Rudd-O> what's next?
<Rudd-O> I assume plugging in the original source?
<Rudd-O> how do I get from the original source plus debian-specific patches to a deb?
<Rudd-O> debian/patches/* I assume are applied when the package is actually built, right?
<persia> The common method is to construct a new orig.tar.gz from the new source.  Adjust the variance in diff.gz to be compatible with the new source, update debian/copyright, and build a new source package.
<Rudd-O> Adjust the variance in diff.gz <- what does this mean?
<persia> If you just want to apply a patch (which is also good), you probably want to try the which-patch program from the ubuntu-dev-tools package to determine how to apply the patch in a compatible manner.
<directhex> persia, uupdate!
<Rudd-O> ok
<persia> Rudd-O: Let's say that we have a patch that fixes a bug, and it's been sent upstream and accepted.  That patch then needs to be removed from the package.  Simiarly, if a patch applies against code that changed, the patch may need to change.
<Rudd-O> I want ot just apply the patch
<Rudd-O> ok, this is a patch that has NOT made it into upstream
<persia> directhex: In those cases where it works, maybe, but it's very rare that uupdate lets one construct a new SVN snapshot.
<Rudd-O> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=16746
<Rudd-O> I just plop it into debian/patches?
<persia> Rudd-O: What did which-patch tell you?
<persia> Sorry.  "what-patch"
<Rudd-O> what?  what do you mean?  is there a what-patch command?
<Rudd-O> I just plopped the patch and adjusted for build system into debian/patches
<Rudd-O> what next?
<Rudd-O> the patch was applied correctly, when I do it manually
<Rudd-O> what's next after plopping the patch in there?
<Rudd-O> I mean, changelog and how do I build it?
<persia> Usually dropping the patch in debian/patches isn't sufficient, which is why I recommended the what-patch program from the ubuntu-dev-tools package.
<directhex> 00list!
<Rudd-O> I have updated the changelog
<persia> To alter the changelog, use `dch -i` from the package top-level directory.  Add in a note about what you fixed, and make sure your name is correct.
<Rudd-O> oh okay thanks for the 00list headsup
<Rudd-O> the changelog I altered manually following earlier changelog entry conventions
<persia> At this point, you can build an updated source package with `debuild -S -us -uc`
<Rudd-O> ok so what does what-patch do?
<persia> directhex: Again, 00list only works for a subset of packages :)
<persia> Rudd-O: what-patch tries to determine which patch system is being used, to give you guidance on the best means by which to apply a patch.
<directhex> persia, the right-minded ones!
<Rudd-O> wait, where is the 00list file?
<Rudd-O> i find no 00 file anywhere
<Rudd-O> just the patches numbered from 00 to above
<Rudd-O> and I can confirm no file lists the patches anywhere
<Rudd-O> apparently it is using simple-patchsys
<directhex> which has no 00list
<persia> directhex: Err.  I disagree with that, but don't want to argue dpatch vs. quilt vs. simple-patchsys vs. Format: 3.0 (foo) right now.
<Rudd-O> okay, I'm not sure about these different patch system technologies you seem to be discussiong, but the sensible thing from what I've learnt from debian structure is: plop the patch there, see if it applies, revert it (obviously!) and add to changelog.
<Rudd-O> in an ideal world for me, everything would be distributed as git clones
<persia> Rudd-O: If it is using simple-patchsys, you want to use the following procedure to apply the patch:
<persia> 1) determine a name for the patch
<Rudd-O> 1) done: 90_dbus_zfs_fix.patch
<persia> 2) From the package top-level directory, call `cdbs-edit-patch name-of-patch`
<persia> 3) In the temporary build tree, apply the patch
<Rudd-O> simple-patchsis is remarcably similar to RPM patches
<persia> 4) exit the shell (Ctrl-D or `exit 0` is good).
<Rudd-O> cdbs for the changelog?
<persia> That constructs a simple-patchsys compatible patch in debian/patches.
<Rudd-O> wait a second
<Rudd-O> the patch applies just fine just like the rest of the patches there, why do I need to use cdbs?
<Rudd-O> this simple-patchsys seems to me like it complicates stuff
<persia> Rudd-O: cdbs-edit-patch ensures that all the patches are applied in the sequence used at build time, which reduces the chances of conflict from layered patches.
<persia> You may well get lucky, and have a patch just work.
<Rudd-O> then I guess I'm feeling lucky
<Rudd-O> hey, any of you work at google?
<Rudd-O> ok
<Rudd-O> now let's try debuilt
<Rudd-O> I mean debuild
<Rudd-O> cross fingers here!
<persia> debuild :)
<Rudd-O> just before debuild
<Rudd-O> onemorequestion
<Rudd-O> dpkg-source doesn't apply the patches, right?
<persia> It depends on the package construction, but generally not.
<Rudd-O> awesome
<Rudd-O> running debuild
<Rudd-O> WAIT
<persia> Note that some sources have the patches pre-applied from diff.gz, and also in debian/patches, in which case the above would not be correct.  (simple-patchsys packages are not of this type)
<Rudd-O> oh shit, how do I bump the ver numbe rin the package?
<persia> You edit the version number when you update the changelog.
<persia> Did you not use dch -i?
<persia> If you haven't, you wish to.  If you have, you can continue work on your last change with just dch
<persia> (including changing the version string)
<Rudd-O> so the version number is taken from the first line of the changelog?  that's ingenious!
<persia> It tends to reduce mistakes :)
<Rudd-O> ok, no files were created by debuild
<Rudd-O> debuild -S -us -uc
<Rudd-O> failed I guess?
<persia> Maybe in the parent directory?  You ought have at least a .changes file.
<persia> Err.  Rather at least a .build file, and likely a .changes file.
<Rudd-O> oh, it worked in the parent directory!
<Rudd-O> yes, a .source and .build
<Rudd-O> what now?
<persia> Now you have a new candidate source package.  You want to make a binary package.  We usually recommend sbuild or pbuilder for that.
<Rudd-O> awesome the .changes contains the changes from the last .diff.gz
<persia> There are convenience scripts in ubuntu-dev-tools to simplify setting these up.
<Rudd-O> .build is just a log right?
<persia> !sbuild
<ubottu> sbuild is a system to easily build packages in a clean schroot environment.  To get started with SBuild, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<persia> !pbuilder
<ubottu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Rudd-O> installing that package now
<Rudd-O> what is the difference among those two?
<persia> Yes.  .build is a log of the source package build, to help debug any issues that may have occurred.
<Rudd-O> it's installing bzrrrrrrrr and a bunch of other stuff
<persia> sbuild and pbuilder are different implementations of an automated build process.  The main difference is that pbuilder stores the template build chroots in tarballs, and sbuild expects you to have them available for use by schroot.
<Rudd-O> what are the main differences between sbuild and pbuilder
<Rudd-O> so I would need pbuilder, right?
<Rudd-O> why can't it be as easy as rpm -ba ?
<directhex> it can, if you want it to be
<persia> Depends on how often you build packages.  sbuild is slightly faster for most hardware, although a little more annoying to get set up.
<directhex> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot, in the package root directory, is the VERY hairy way to build packages
<persia> directhex: That's also bad because it can damage your precious source package.
<persia> If you want to go the messy way, debuild -b -us -uc is preferred.
<Rudd-O> my prEcious!!!
<directhex> one reason it's ill-advised because it compiles "in situ", so if you have something installed but not declared in the build dependencies (say, gcc) then it'll WORK for you, but fail to compile on a 'pristine' system
<Rudd-O> okay, what's the quick and dirty way?  It's just a patch
<highvoltage> what is ddebs.ubuntu.com?
<persia> Rudd-O: Quick and dirty is debuild -b -us -uc, but a package so constructed is often unsuitable for sharing with others, so doing it that way may be considered antisocial.
<Rudd-O> but why?
<Rudd-O> what do the built packages have of antisocial in them?
<persia> highvoltage: It contains dbgsym packages for everything in the repositoes, for apport retracing and debugging.
<directhex> Rudd-O, as stated, they can be wrong, but you won't notice the wrongness due to local environment peculiarities
<persia> Rudd-O: One issue is that directhex mentioned, that the source package may be missing build-dependencies.  Another is that some programs will autoconfigure to use libraries locally installed, which may not match the intended build, and create subtle unexpected dependencies.
<Rudd-O> but those wrongnesses stem from dependencies and other crap that has already been declared to be good in the original package, right?
<Rudd-O> ok
<Rudd-O> I will use pbuilder then
<persia> directhex: They may be wrong, if you have lots of -dev packages installed :)
<Rudd-O> damn I love RPM.  the autodep stuff just doesn't let you get deps wrong!
<persia> Rudd-O: Well, not quite, as building in a different environment may cause the declared dependencies to no longer be correct.
<Rudd-O> ok in which directory do I run pbuilder?
<Rudd-O> persia: the deps for the binary packages are always correct with RPM
 * persia looks for someone who uses pbuilder to answer that
<Rudd-O> just read the manpage
<Rudd-O> don't worry
<Rudd-O> what? do I have to run that as ROOT?
<persia> Rudd-O: True, but they are also dependent on the packages installed on the local system, which may not match.  RPM has different issues with local compiles, but also shares benefit from being built in a clean chroot.
 * persia likes sbuild more: no sudo involved :)
<Rudd-O> persia: if the binary packages are dependent on the packages installed in the local system, then they are declared as well in the build products.
<Rudd-O> ok doing sudo pbuilder now
<persia> Rudd-O: Right, but those local binary packages may not be available to others, depending on the local system construction, hence possibly being antisocial.
<Rudd-O> wait
<Rudd-O> pbuilder downloads an ENTIRE DISTRO in the dir?
<persia> Rudd-O: Only the subset required to build the package.
<Rudd-O> persia: you got that right, that is true
<Rudd-O> persia: but that is HALF A GIGABYTE!!!!!!!!
<persia> I suppose.  I don't really count bits much.
<Rudd-O> I guess you don't have an 800 kbps connection at home... but much more!
<Rudd-O> and wait for it... /var/cache is in ZFS, so the slowdown WILL BE unbearable
<Rudd-O> okay
<Rudd-O> let's leave it churning for a couple of HOURS and focus on the next step in the agenda
<persia> Some people who do this often have local mirrors.  Others may bind-mount apt-sources, like the alternate install CD.
<Rudd-O> this is a package that I want to share as a fix for ubuntu hardy
<Rudd-O> what should I do?
<persia> Is there a bug open about the issue?
<Rudd-O> not sure
<Rudd-O> the bug is in freedesktop bts
<persia> That's your first step then: you'll want to have a bug in launchpad to track the task of applying the fix in hardy and getting it tested widely, etc.
<Rudd-O> ok
<Rudd-O> I will open the bug NOW
<persia> Review the existing bugs, as the testing process goes faster if you can find a bug others are already experiencing.
<persia> (assuming it is truly the same bug)
<Rudd-O> lemme add a cookie exception for launchpad
<Rudd-O> loggedon
<highvoltage> persia: ah, thanks, I think I may need to do some more reading there :)
<persia> highvoltage: Are you just seeking to understand, or were you pursuing a particular goal?
<persia> If the former, looking at the apport and pkg-create-dbgsym packages may be more informative than arbitrary Google queries.
<Rudd-O> alright
<Rudd-O> I have reported the bug
<Rudd-O> what files do I need to uplaod to have them incorporated and looked at by the hardy-proposed repo managers?
<persia> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Rudd-O> guys?
<persia> The next step is to review the Stable Release Updates policy that ubottu just referenced, and proceed with that to get the update into the repositories.
<Rudd-O> ok
<persia> Part of that will involve testing your package, and attaching a debdiff with the fix to the bug.
<persia> You can generate the debdiff by running debdiff old-version.dsc new-version.dsc.  You may want to do this while you are waiting for pbuilder to examine your changes, and ensure nothing unexpected occured.
<Rudd-O> ok
<Rudd-O> debdiff?
<Rudd-O> awesome
<Rudd-O> that was my question
<directhex> and diffstat is nice for seeing which files have changed. IMHO anyway
<persia> directhex: Really?  I always use lsdiff and view to inspect patches, and find diffstat of limited value.
<persia> What about diffstat do you like?
<directhex> persia, i just like the simple representation
<directhex> persia, it's visual enough for my feeble mind
<persia> directhex: Ah.  That makes sense.  I don't find a close correlation between number of lines changed and possible impact of change, but that might just be me.
<Rudd-O> oh, I need to talk to scott
<Rudd-O> diffstat is info-dense
<directhex> persia, it helps me quickly see which files have changed, and by how much. anything beyond that is pretty much a leap of faith anyway, unless i'm doing a full patch audit. and honestly, reading enormous autoreconf patch updates is dull.
<Rudd-O> ok apparently pbuilder is pdownloading a pseries of packages that will be pfinished in a couple of pminutes
<persia> directhex: Makes sense.  I tend to find that patches that change lots are often of the autoreconf variety, but that a one-liner that changes something (e.g. "#DEFINE FOO 100" -> "#DEFINE FOO 0100") can have enourmous impact.
<directhex> well, yes
<highvoltage> persia: no particular goal, just wanting to understand
<persia> highvoltage: OK.  I hope those two packages explain it sufficiently.  Feel free to ask if you have specific questions.
<ember> nixternal thanks! and congrats.
<highvoltage> persia: thanks :)
<Rudd-O> hey there nixternal
<Rudd-O> this sucks sticky balls
<Rudd-O> this sucks sticky balls
<Rudd-O> pbuilder gave me the exact same frigging error
<Rudd-O> dpkg-source: failure: remove patch backup file dbus-1.1.20/debian/patches/03_fix_inotify.patch.dpkg-orig: No such file or directory
<Rudd-O> WHY DOES IT WANT TO DELETE AN ORIG FILE THAT DOES NOT EXIST??????
<Rudd-O> goddamnit
<Rudd-O> monkeypatched that shit, to see how it goes
<laga> Rudd-O: language please
<Rudd-O> a-ok, laga
<Rudd-O> okay I officially GIVE UP
<Rudd-O> pbuilder insists on removing nonexistent files even after the monkey patch
<Rudd-O> which is probably because it's using its own chroot
<Rudd-O> see you guys, thanks for the brave help
<persia> Rudd-O: You might want to try with a different package, as you may have exposed an issue with the package with which you are working.
<persia> Bah.
<huats> what is the benefit of adding dpkg-dev in the build-depends of a package (it is the case in the debian package that I am merging)
<huats> ?
<james_w> it might be doing something like using dpkg-parsechangelog to get the current version number of the package.
<james_w> I'd ./debian/rules to see what they may be up to.
<persia> huats: Is it a versioned dependency on dpkg-dev?  dpkg-dev is already build-essential, so if it doesn't need a newer version, it's a fairly useless dependency.
<huats> persia: dpkg-dev (>= 1.14.16)
<persia> huats: Ah, that might be important: you could check the dpkg-dev changelog to get an understanding why.
<huats> I am having a look right now
<persia> Once build-essential has a versioned depends on a sufficient version of dpkg-dev, and all supported releases also have a sufficiently new dpkg-dev, it may be dropped.
<cody-somerville> james_w, https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361180
<ubottu> bugzilla.novell.com bug 361180 in X.Org "xcb apps hang if started via dbus-launch" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<james_w> cody-somerville: yeah, I saw.
<huats> persia: currently build-essential depends on dpkg-dev >= 1.13.5
<huats> so it might be the reason
<huats> thus I might need to let the dependency
<huats> I have found the reason in the package that I am merging
<huats> thanks persia
<persia> huats: No, thank you for tracking it down.  What was the cause for the newer dpkg-dev requirement?
<huats> yep
<huats> Update DM-Upload-Allowed according to change in dpkg 1.14.16
<huats> (from the debian changelog)
<huats> so there has been a change in dpkg in 1.14.16 and since they use that syntax they need to explicit the version number
<huats> persia: what is exactly DM-Upload-Allowed ?
<persia> Aha!  That would do it.  Not very meaningful for Ubuntu, but won't cause any harm.
<huats> I am looking what it is and I don't find
<persia> DM-Upload-Allowed means that those in the Uploaders field can upload if they are in the Debian-Maintainers keyring, even if they are not Debian Developers.
<persia> It is a means by which non-DD maintainers of packages can reduce sponsoring delays for updates.
<huats> ok
<huats> thanks
<huats> since I am heading for a sync
<huats> it is harmless right ?
<huats> I don't need to ask a merge because of that right ?
<james_w> huats: there will be no problem in using making it a sync if the only difference is the addition of dpkg-dev.
<james_w> s/using //
<persia> huats: It's harmless: makes no difference in Ubuntu, and oughtn't cause FTBFS.
<persia> If the Debian change was the removal of this, I'd not advocate keeping it as Ubuntu variation, as there's no Ubuntu benefit.
<huats> james_w thanks
<huats> persia: there has been a few other addition
<huats> some needed ones...
<huats> and that  one which is useless for Ubuntu.
<huats> so I am finishing
<huats> it
<huats> :)
<huats> but I think I will ask a sync
<huats> thanks
<norsetto> huats: how is your calf?
<dholbach> your what? :)
<norsetto> dholbach: not the animal :-)
<Lutin> james_w: why did you list the CVE fix as ubuntu change in the cecilia debdiff ?
<james_w> Lutin: to make sure it was picked up in the CVE tracking.
<Lutin> james_w: ah, ok
<james_w> It's maybe not necessary, but I took the belt and braces approach
<Lutin> james_w: btw, how does the CVE tracking picks up such things ? regexp matching on the changelog ?
<james_w> Lutin: I don't think it is automatic.
<james_w> I can always remove the entry, I'm going to spend some more time on it tonight.
<Lutin> ok
<Laney> Lutin: Can you ack the clearsilver sync request? Sorry for confusion.
<Laney> or dholbach: ^
<persia> james_w: As long as the merge upload is done with the correct -v call so that the .changes includes the Debian variation, you don't need to repeat yourself.  Note that if you aren't making the final .changes, it doesn't hurt to be careful.
<Lutin> TheMuso: if csound builds correctly, can the copyright change be dropped ?
<Traktor1> pls come in new IRC server balkanchat.no-ip.org just type /s -m balkanchat.no-ip.org .We will give you IRC OP
<Traktor1> pls come in new IRC server balkanchat.no-ip.org just type /s -m balkanchat.no-ip.org .We will give you IRC OP
<Traktor1> pls come in new IRC server balkanchat.no-ip.org just type /s -m balkanchat.no-ip.org .We will give you IRC OP
<Traktor1> pls come in new IRC server balkanchat.no-ip.org just type /s -m balkanchat.no-ip.org .We will give you IRC OP
<Traktor1> pls come in new IRC server balkanchat.no-ip.org just type /s -m balkanchat.no-ip.org .We will give you IRC OP
<calc> i got an email that my motu membership is about to expire, should i let it expire and have it moved over to ubuntu-dev instead?
<calc> or is "motu" still considered a live group?
<jpds> calc: you can renew on Launchpad.
<calc> jpds: yea i see that, but should it get renewed under the new(?) ubuntu-dev group instead of motu?
<calc> or is motu the new group, i am a bit confused on which is the new group
<jpds> calc: all MOTU memberships should be done via the ~motu group.
<calc> ah ok
<TomJaeger> how do I tell pbuilder to give me a shell when there's an error?
<laga> there's a hook for that
<james_w> TomJaeger: http://blog.madism.org/index.php/2006/06/27/93-pbuilder-custom-configurations
<james_w> http://madism.org/~madcoder/pbuilder/C10_launch_shell
<james_w> it needs to be executable in --hookdir
<TomJaeger> thanks
<TomJaeger> grrr, gtk-builder-convert produces garbage in a pbuilder environment and i have no clue why.  But after installing ubuntu-desktop, everything works fine.
<TomJaeger> Is there a way to get a list of all the files a program reads during execution?
<laga> strace?
<TomJaeger> thanks, that looks like it might work
<TomJaeger> sweet, that actually worked, the culprit is one of these packages: libc6-i686 libgtk2.0-dev libxml2-utils locales python2.5 python2.5-minimal python-apport python-gst0.10 python-imaging python-minimal python-numeric python-support time util-linux
<TomJaeger> okay, it's libxml2-utils, filing a bug report
 * sebner is taking a break from learning for giving ScottK a bear hug =)
<ScottK> sebner: I did a bit of editing on your debian/changelog entry.  Since it's been so long, I just edited and uploaded, but please have a look at what I changed.
<ScottK> sebner: Thanks for taking that one on.  Courier is a pretty 'fun' experience.
<sebner> ScottK: Yeah I already discovered that you edited the changelog. will look at it later :) So, the fun is over. what's now you impression ^^
<ScottK> Pretty good.
<sebner> ha! With this comment of ScottK no one can stop me to conquer the world ... or become MOTU, hmm or something like that .. xD
<sebner> ScottK: but also thanks to you for reviewing it. I know I was a bit annoying and reviewing courier is also not that fun. so thanks =)
 * sebner hugs ScottK 
<ScottK> No problem.
<ScottK> mok0 is the one that should be happy.  He'd touched it last before.  Now courier is YOURs.
<ScottK> ;-)
<sebner> ScottK: Well, if I become MOTU in the next few months I can delegate it for intrepid +1 ;) Or you are looking for a new victim aka potential motu :P
<sebner> ScottK: whitespaces?
<ScottK> No
<sebner> ScottK: kompare shows me that you added 2 bug numers and changed a "+" to a "-"
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> So what does that tell you?
<sebner> ScottK: I should look if I can close other bugs too. the other is a minor cosmetic change
<ScottK> Yes.  Also look and see if there are also bugs you can fix when you are merging.
<ScottK> Also, don't forget that debian/changelog is designed to be machine parsable, so keep to standard formatting as much as you can.
<sebner> ScottK: Will try, thanks for the hints
<sebner> ScottK: about merging. I followed the mail discussion. What sense does it make to request a Exeption for a merge? We now that since import freeze we want "important" merges but exeptions ...
<sebner> *know
<ScottK> sebner: I think the entire concept is silly.  If a developer thinks a merge is worth doing, they should do it/sponsor it.
<sebner> ScottK: right but we does this came up?
<sebner> *did come
<ScottK> It was a reaction to the ubuntu-devel-announce message about upcomig DIF that referred to getting exceptions.
<cody-somerville> wait...
<cody-somerville> who approves that?
<sebner> cody-somerville: for ...
<norsetto> sebner: we better get flightgear ready
<sebner> norsetto: no reaction by debian yet ... I'll be off until tuesday, wednesday but will look at it if you want
<ScottK> cody-somerville: There was a long IRC thread on this yesterday in ubuntu-devel.  grep the logs for persia and I talking for the highlights.
<norsetto> sebner: yes, we have to get rid of it, there is an NBS that I would like to clear that depends on it
<norsetto> sebner: also, you may want to coordinate with emgent about eggdrop?
<cody-somerville> ScottK, Maybe the people involved that discussion and yourself could write something to the ML to help keep everyone on the same page?
<sebner> norsetto: Yes but not today. will  be off soon. I offered him that he can do it but I'm  not sure if he is working on it or not
<norsetto> sebner: well, the deadline is the 26th, so we can wait until tuesday/wednesday, but not later
<sebner> norsetto: deadline?
<norsetto> sebner: dif
<sebner> norsetto: I know that every package should be merged one but why? what's so bad doing it later?
<norsetto> sebner: lots of discussions going on at the moment, but if there is a rule, lets try to stick to it
<sebner> norsetto: bad rule
<norsetto> sebner: whats the problem? We have plenty of time
<sebner> norsetto: 6 days ^^ and I'm off for 4-5 days xD
<norsetto> sebner: it takes half an hour max to fixe those two, these leave us 1 day to enjoy our well-deserved rest
<sebner> norsetto: will see, maybe I do flightgear and he eggdrop?
<norsetto> sebner: as you wish, I don't mind either way
<sebner> norsetto: kk, may you want to tell him then
<norsetto> sebner: sure
<norsetto> sebner: enjoy your mini-holiday
<sebner> norsetto: well, my mini-holiday starts on tuesday ;) montag is the big day
<sebner> lol
<sebner> monday
<sebner> sry. german word ^^
<norsetto> sebner: good luck with your exams, you will pass with full marks ;-)
<sebner> norsetto: ^^, thanks
<sebner> norsetto: btw, but I love the idea. merge as many as you can =)
<sebner> \sh: though you can get troubles because you don't file bugs :P
<\sh> sebner: ?
<sebner> \sh: everybody can do any merge without asking the previous uploader. And you are normally your work without filing bugs you said. so a lot of double work =)
<sebner> ember: hey, you are doing a lot of gnome stuff. *cool* :)
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys, have a question... how to apply a patch using cdbs (i downloaded the patch from a website and i want to apply it to the package)
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Add simple patchsys to your debian/rules and then use cdbs-edit-patch
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, by just doing cdbs-edit-patch patch-name.patch  (where patch-name.patch is the name of the patch i downloaded?)
<ScottK> No.  If you know the patch applies to your source without adujstment, you can just copy it into debian/patchs.
<ScottK> Or cdbs-edit-patch patch-name.patch where patch-name.patch is what you want the final patch name to be.
<ScottK> Then apply the patch manually using patch in the tmp dir
<ScottK> The latter approach you can be sure that the patch will apply during build.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok so for example: cbds-edit-patch name.patch , then patch -p1 < downloaded-patch.patch, and finally ctrl+d, right?
<sebner> gn8 folks, see you next week.
<ScottK> Right except exit at the end instead of ctrl d.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok thanks :D
<\sh> sebner: if I have a merge finished, I'm uploading directly...if I don't upload, there is no merge from me
<\sh> s/from/by/
<\sh> anyways..
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-21
<vadi2> What is the proper way to associate a program with a file extension?
<wgrant> vadi2: It's best to associate with a MIME type instead.
<vadi2> ï»¿wgrant: Okay, sure. But I don't really know where to even start and can't find much on it. Do you have a resource on this handy?
<wgrant> I'm not sure of one, and I've not done it myself before, sorry.
<crimsun_> vadi2: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/mime-policy/
<crimsun_> vadi2: additionally, there are many packages that provide mime files.  Two examples are in the evince source package.
<vadi2> ï»¿crimsun_: thanks for that.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i have confidence that close to no one will actually follow, nor enforce, such a concept.
<Hobbsee> at least, none of the MOTU's.
<Hobbsee> or, very few of them
<persia> Hobbsee: referant?
<cody-somerville> Whats going on?
<Hobbsee> [11:35] <sebner> 06:47:21> ScottK: about merging. I followed the mail discussion. What sense does it make to request a Exeption for a merge? We now that since import freeze we want "important" merges but exeptions ...
<Hobbsee> (and replies)
<persia> Oh.  Yeah.
<persia> For hardy we did https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-December/thread.html#2888
<persia> I'm not sure it's ideal, as noted in the discussion ScottK referenced previously, but it's probably a reasonable place to start.
<persia> With that model, enforcement is done by LP permissions.
 * ScottK disagrees it's a reasonable place to start.
<ScottK> It's nothing more than doing what one would normally do and calling it an 'exception'.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: why?  the MOTU's can just behave as normal, with extra thought on suitableness, and the contributors have to already file a bug with a rationale.
<ScottK> No point in that.
<Hobbsee> there is that.
 * ScottK doesn't think DIF is a magical day where everything changes.
<ScottK> The only thing that changes is that the archive no longer changes automatically.
<persia> Yeah, well, while it's pointless under analysis, it was the best way to deal with "exceptions" that I thought of for Hardy.  Note that I've not sent it for Intrepid.
<ScottK> Right.
 * ScottK suggest just do away with the notion of 'exception'.
<persia> ScottK: That could also work.  We didn't have exceptions before Hardy.
<ScottK> Just as any other time, it's up to the developer to determine if a change is appropriate to upload given where we are in the release cycle.
<ScottK> Speaking of which, me needs to go do some upstream work to see if I can get a release done and uploaded to Debian prior to DIF.
<RAOF> Yay!  Boost is merged, so miro will build.
<persia> Good luck :)
<AnAnt> Hello, are there any cellphones that got Ubuntu mobile edition on it ?
<persia> AnAnt: I only know of one "cell phone" that might be able to do Ubuntu mobile, but it wouldn't be idea.  Ubuntu Mobile is about handhelds: 4-6" screen, not phones.
<persia> s/idea/ideal/
<AnAnt> persia: which phone ? and why not ideal ?
<persia> AnAnt: One of the big ugly phones that e-mobile has in Japan, and not ideal because Ubuntu Mobile isn't a phone OS.
<AnAnt> I see
<AnAnt> how about JeOS ?
<AnAnt> oops, that's a server
<persia> AnAnt: That's really a server-appliance OS.
<AnAnt> persia: I think that I heard that there's an OS based on Ubuntu Mobile,
<AnAnt> persia: is there a cell phone running any linux even ?
<AnAnt> persia: other than the e-mobile running ubuntu
<persia> AnAnt: You might want to be asking these questions in #ubuntu-mobile, if this is going to be a long conversation.
<AnAnt> oh, thanks
<philsf> Hi, I applied the following change in poppler debian/control  ( http://pastebin.ca/1052362 ) hoping to replace libpoppler2 with libpoppler3, but got the error in http://pastebin.ca/1052363.  What am I missing?
<tillux1> heya. I build a .deb package using dh_make and dpkg-buildpackage -r, but these .debs are almost empty. (well, they contain nothing apart from the folder-structure, the copyright file and the doc folder...). Did I forget to do something?
<persia> philsf: I don't see that you've changed the package name.  Note that you probably also want to update the shlibs
<persia> philsf: You'll also need to recompile everything compiled against libpoppler2 with replacements compiled against libpoppler3 (assuming an API change here).
<philsf> persia: I did think about changing the name, but I figured a conflict/replace/provides would be enough to keep apt satisfied - obviously I was wrong, but I can't figure out where
<philsf> persia: I don't really know if there was an API change, I'm assuming not, but this is just a test, not for production use (unless, of course, it works) ;)
<persia> philsf: If there wasn't an API change, was there an ABI change?  If not, there's no benefit from the name change.
<persia> tillux1: A new package you constructed, or an existing package from the repositories?
<philsf> persia: you're right, I'm assuming too much. but I'm not even to this problem yet :) To this point, I really expect apps that depend on libpoppler (evince is my target) to go crazy, but I'm still stuck in dpkg
<persia> philsf: The error you posted was about apps failing: if you want to force it, just uninstall all the dependencies first.
<tillux1> persia: I only have got the source, and I want to create .debs from it ;)
<persia> tillux1: OK.  If you're constructing a new package, your issue makes more sense.  One of three things is possible: 1) The correct installation call to the build system is not in debian/rules, 2) The correct path for installation is not being passed to the build system, 3) The build system doesn't have an install hook, and you need to do it manually with something like dh_install
<tillux1> persia: hm, thans ;)
<tillux1> +k
<philsf> persia: is Conflicts/Replaces AND Provides a logical mistake?
<persia> philsf: Yes.
<persia> Conflicts/Replaces means that you can overwrite the files from the other package, and that the other package cannot be installed.
<philsf> persia: ok
<philsf> isn't there a parameter to dpkg-buildpackage so it does not recompile everything, and just repackage what really changed?
<philsf> (I'm just changing debian/control now)
<persia> philsf: I'm not sure.  I use debuild, rather than dpkg-buildpackage, and only to build source packages: and sbuild to build the binary packages.
<philsf> persia: I'll look those, thanks
<persia> philsf: Note that those are even less likely to allow only rebuilding the bit you want.
<philsf> persia: yeah, from man debuild, it first calls dpkg-buildpackge
<lifeless> philsf: if you want performance, let me introduce you to ccache
<philsf> lifeless: seems interesting
<RAOF> Hm.  Could we make our xulrunner-1.9-dev package provide xulrunner-dev?
<wgrant> RAOF: Is Debian xulrunner 1.9 now?
<RAOF> wgrant: Yes.  That's why I'm asking.
<Amaranth> is it really xulrunner or the stuff mozilla hated them for that they called xulrunner?
<wgrant> I suppose that makes sense.
<RAOF> Amaranth: I'm unaware of the latter object.  It's possible?
<RAOF> Basically, I want to sync miro, damnit!
<persia> If not already done, might want double-verification from #ubuntu-mozillateam
<Amaranth> RAOF: I know some time ago some mozilla folks were made because the debian guys changed xulrunner and it made it so things not packaged couldn't use it
<Amaranth> not without being incompatible with regular xulrunner's anyway
<RAOF> Right.  That'd be annoying.
<Amaranth> but that was years ago
<Amaranth> i think xulrunner 1.4 was the hot new thing
<RAOF> On the other hand, it'd be less annoying if gecko wasn't so evil to embed that everyone went of and started embedding webkit.
<Amaranth> if epiphany gets something like awesome i'm switching back :P
<Amaranth> err, awesomebar
<RAOF> Epiphany has always had an awesomebar
<Amaranth> not quite
<RAOF> s/always/for some time/
<RAOF> There _are_ one or two things I'd like to change about Epiphany, but I was enjoying their awesome bar lite long before ff3 :)
<Amaranth> the firefox ones remembers that every time I type 'forum' I go to the intrepid forum on ubuntuforums and puts that one first
<RAOF> Whereas Epiphany's will just match the 'forum' in the title?
<Amaranth> it doesn't learn
<Amaranth> firefox's learns what you go to when you type a string and sorts them by how often you go to them
<RAOF> That seems like it should be not unreasonably hard to implement.
<Amaranth> apparently opera goes one further and searches in the text of the pages in the history instead of just their titles
<Amaranth> if they're still in the cache, I guess
 * RAOF smells xesam integration.
<Amaranth> no
<RAOF> That'd be kinda cool, though.
<Amaranth> Just...no.
<RAOF> Beagle already indexes the sites I browse, which is quite useful.
<Amaranth> i don't need beagle to
<Amaranth> firefox does it :P
<RAOF> But based on the full-text contents?
<Amaranth> oh, that
<Amaranth> I was just saying Opera does it, I don't really see how it would be useful
<RAOF> I can see that being kinda cool.
<Amaranth> cool but useless, just like tracker, beagle, and xesam
<lifeless> RAOF: xesam?
<stochastic> is there a Felipe Sateler anywhere in this room? (I'm looking for info on the pd-csound external package)
<RAOF> lifeless: The xdg desktop search/index/metadatastore thingy.
<danbhfive> ï»¿anyone know about driver detection, for things like printers and wifi, and webcams too?  Is there a way I could help with those projects?
<RAOF> danbhfive: That's (1) almost entirely done within the kernel, and (2) a pretty much solved problem.
<danbhfive> hm, ok
<persia> danbhfive: Actually, you could help.  Find devices for which it doesn't work, and submit your DeviceIDs and the appropriate driver to load to the linux-usb list.
<persia> (make sure to check the trunk code before submitting to avoid duplication)
<RAOF> Hah, right.  Better answer from persia :)
<danbhfive> and I should do this even if the driver is binary from windows?   like ndiswrapper'ed drivers?
<persia> RAOF: Yeah.  I'm still not sure what to do with my 922SH.  It has different deviceids depending on the "mode" :/
<persia> danbhfive: My recommendation is only useful for USB stuff.
<elky> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/OpenPrinting is probably a good place to look if you're interested
<RAOF> danbhfive: Ok.  Not sure about ndiswrapper'd drivers, but they're going to be difficult to support at best :(.
<danbhfive> RAOF: I thought there was a project to actually do that, which inspired my first question.
<danbhfive> Ill probably poke around these sites, see if I can get hooked in somewhere
<RAOF> danbhfive: There's ndiswrapper, but that's likely to remain a second-class citizen, having to provide a windows compatibility shim.
<RAOF> Generally the hope is for actual native drivers, so that everything can Just Work(tm).  I'm not sure whether it's technically possible to make an ndiswrapper solution automatically work in the same way.
<RAOF> And legally, there's the fun of redistributing binary drivers, etc.
<RAOF> Dear Miro: I hate you.  Where do you put your downloaded files?
<AnAnt> persia: Hello, please review those http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ubuntume-gdm-themes  &  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=usplash-theme-ubuntume
<RAOF> Uuurm.  Miro?  Why are you saving your files in the directory I built your source package in?
<RAOF> Oh, of course!  Because that's where I've run you from.  You silly, silly program.
<amikrop> Hello. Which is a good Ubuntu package, written in Python that uses distutils with debhelper?
<RAOF> specto?
<amikrop> Someone here has suggested this package, for studying, before.
<RAOF> That's probably me, 'cause it's mine :)
<amikrop> RAOF: I don't think it was specto.
<RAOF> I would not suggest miro, because it's crazy and stupid and can't find where it's downloaded any of its files, and I don't think that's my fault :)
<amikrop> RAOF: But since specto uses distutils with debhelper, I 'll check it out ;)
<RainCT> Is there some policy for packaging ruby applications/libraries?
<RainCT> nvm, found it
<amikrop> Actually, somebody had given me a link to launchpad, about a package that uses distutils with debhelper.
<lifeless> RAOF: seen loggerhead+bzr-search yet ?
<RAOF> lifeless: No?  Shall I go browse some bzr revisions?
<lifeless> uhm, demo is down
<lifeless> but I'll ping you tomorrow when beuno is up and give you a url
<RAOF> Cool.
<RAOF> Aargh, I hate you miro.  Where do you (incorrectly) set your Video directory?
<lifeless> ugh, moin, your voice is passive and fugly
<amikrop> Oh, I am sure somebody here had suggested me a package (and given me the launchpad page) that uses Python's distutils (setup.py) with debhelper (debian/rules), together.
<RAOF> amikrop: Why do you want the launchpad page?
<amikrop> RAOF: I just want to see the source package, and study it.
<RAOF> amikrop: "apt-get source specto"
<ember> amikrop stepic
<POX_> amikrop: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/python-apps/packages/
<persia> ompaul: About your idea for creating a list of applications most needing work: how do you envision input?  Maybe a collection of https-accessible lists of packages with weighting?
<amikrop> ember: Yes, I think it was stepic.
<amikrop> RAOF: alright :)
<amikrop> Thanks, guys.
<RAOF> amikrop: Well, it doesn't _have_ to be specto.  But apt-get source does what you want :)
<ompaul> persia, the weighting was exactly as you suggested -- the big numbers from LP
<amikrop> RAOF: I go tit.
<amikrop> * I got it
<amikrop> (oops :P)
<laga> _where_ do you go? ;)
<ompaul> persia, the idea that the bottom 2.5% of a standard "snapshot" be used to create the space that needs the most attention, that number is random I have no idea what the real values should be, but then I do think that you should be able to look to the snapshot graph with a "red / green / blue" list where you make red small and blue likewise, i.e. tails on a bell curve, however taking it further, you should be able to see a weekly or daily buil
<ompaul> d with the nasty o graph I mentioned before, the ever moving target with the heavier weighting being applied for time, thus saying straight away here is package 1 for this day / week or whatever, I expect something like this to create a kernel like rate of change almost
<ompaul> I am in favour of that last graph being timestamped on a 24 hour basis
<persia> I was thinking of something more like a 6-hourly update, and ignoring history.
<persia> I also like the idea of showing the entire graph, but then only listing the packages most needing attention at the bottom.  That shows both the general distribution, and identifies work to be done.
<ompaul> persia, well history is important for creating the tail
<persia> Hrm?  History of packages, or history of the graph?
<ompaul> persia, package history, which creates a portion of the weighting
<ompaul> after all that is how it came to pass
<ompaul> i.e. the idea - some things don't get touched
<ompaul> iirc
<ompaul> the graphs history is not important unless you want to archive the data points for a post release look back
<ompaul> at the end of the day, the question is not what was done, but what have we learnt
<ompaul> the work will get done, but are there better ways to make things available for doing
<ompaul> persia, perhaps I should mock up a doc and pass it on to you as a sample of what I am thinking about - we have about 20k individual datum with maybe 7 or 8 weighting points
<persia> Right.  I was thinking of a "days since last upload" for package history weighting, which is calculable.  Yeah, a doc sounds like a better way to get some initial planning, and the doc can become a spec, and so on until we have something.
<amikrop> ember: How do I use stepic? I mean, how do I encode some data in an image, for example?
<ompaul> persia, I'll poke OOo and see what my brains can transmit to it
<ember> amikrop i'm not a stepic user but you can take a look at the API in http://domnit.org/stepic/doc/pydoc/stepic.html
<amikrop> ember: I did so, but couldn't figure out how to use it.
<ember> amikrop i don't know  either, better to ping ScottK about stepic
<amikrop> ScottK: hello
<ompaul> persia, <aol>you got mail</aol> ;-)
 * persia looks for the hanksicide
<ompaul> that has to be the worst joke this month
<ompaul> mine tat is
<RainCT> superm1: uhm.. from where have you got nautilus-image-converter 0.3.0?
<RainCT> superm1: ie, if it's from SVN, shouldn't it be 0.3~svn<something>?
<RainCT> and there's no change after 0.2.1
<RainCT> superm1: ah ok, nevermind
<LucidFox> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Microsoft_Silverlight_stack.svg <-- Microsoft at its finest.
<LucidFox> Put N Microsoft programmers in the same project, and they'll add N-1 layers of abstraction. The Nth will requalify into a PR manager.
<EagleScreen> hello
<EagleScreen>  i have created a new servicemenu for D3lphin, i have putted it into src/servicemenus in sources, i have compiles a new .deb with pbuild, and the result is that my new package does not install my new servicemenu to /usr/share/apps/delphin/servicemenus
<superm1> RainCT, new upstream version?
<superm1> er what happened with it?
<RainCT> superm1: nevermind, upstream changed the SVN so I didn't see it :)
<superm1> ah
<RainCT> I'm sending him a mail now and will mention that it would be good to update the homepage noting this :P
<ScottK> YokoZar: Wine backport is ack'ed and in the archive admin's hands.
<YokoZar> ScottK: Did you see my email wondering if an SRU is more appropriate?
<henninge> Hi, can anybody teill me by any chance who is responsible for operating the repository server(s)?
<henninge> like archive.ubuntu.com or security.ubuntu.com
<Daviey> henninge: I would imagine canonical-sysadmin for archive.ubuntu.com and security.ubuntu.com
<henninge> Daviey, thanks, I'll contact the team leader about it.
<Daviey> henninge: they tend to be slow at replying over the weekend.. one other place to try is /j #canonical-sysadmin
<Daviey> henninge: can i be nosey and ask why you need them?
<henninge> Daviey, it is about bug #241305
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241305 in update-manager "security.ubuntu.com not accessible in IPv6 (AAAA record missing in the DNS)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241305
<Daviey> erk!
<henninge> It really boiles down to the question if and when the servers will be available via IPv6
<henninge> and I'd like to close that bug by saying that the request has been brought to the attention of the responsible people
<henninge> and maybe even get a time frame for when that (IPv6) might happen.
<YokoZar> ScottK: Thanks for the backport
<norsetto> greetings and salutations
<ScottK> YokoZar: I think -updates via -backports after some testing is the best way.
<YokoZar> ScottK: Yeah I agree.  Give it a week or so
<stochastic> here's a call for FLOSS art projects I just came across: http://makeart.goto10.org/call/index.en.html
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-22
<emgent> hi slomo_
<ScottK> YokoZar: Hardy backport for wine is done.
<emgent> wine 1.0 ?
<YokoZar> ScottK: Thank you.  I just realized about an hour ago that I should update the .desktop file though (to add application/x-msi to it and change "Wine Windows Emulator" to "Wine Windows Program Loader").  I'm currently hopping into loco team rooms to try and get translations for the existing entries in the .desktop file.
<YokoZar> ScottK: Anyway I'll poke you if I need another backport after testing the new .desktop file for functionality.
<RainCT> YokoZar: do you need a Catalan translation? :)
<ScottK> OK.
<YokoZar> RainCT: Yes actually
<YokoZar> RainCT: Name=Wine Windows Program Loader  = ?
<RoAkSoAx> YokoZar, Wine Lanzador de Programas Windows
<RainCT> YokoZar: Name[ca]=Carregador d'aplicacions del Windows         (adding Wine it sounds very strange)
<RoAkSoAx> xD
<RoAkSoAx> RainCT, maybe could be better to do something like Name[ca]=Wine - Carregador d'aplicacions del Windows
<RainCT> where is this text shown, by the way?
<YokoZar> RainCT: When you right click an executable
<YokoZar> RainCT: and it's prefaced with "open with" and it's standard parlance to include the program name there (Wine), sort of like how we have "Applications->OpenOffice.org Word Processor" rather than just "Word Processor"
<RainCT> well, I guess that RoAkSoAx said is an option ( Name[ca]=Wine - Carregador )
<RainCT> d'aplicacions del Windows)        damn irssi
<emgent> ScottK: can i talk with you one moment in query ?
<RainCT> * Well, I guess that what RoAkSoAx said is an option (Name[ca]=Wine - Carregador d'aplicacions del Windows)
<ScottK> emgent: If it's quick.  I need to go fix dinner.
<RainCT> YokoZar: is there something more?
<emgent> ScottK: ok np, we can talk later :)
<emgent> feel free to ping me
<ScottK> OK.
<emgent> thanks
<ScottK> If I remember.  Next time you see me around, remind me if I don't.
<YokoZar> RainCT: Can I leave the - out?
<RainCT> no
<RainCT> if you don't want it it would be: Carregador d'aplicacions del Windows Wine
<RainCT> but as I already said that sounds quite strange
<RainCT> : instead of - would be OK too
<RainCT> well, I'm off then
<RainCT> good night
<emgent> some motu avaiable here?
<cody-somerville> I am.
<emgent> hi cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> Hello emgent
<emgent> have you time for see one package ?
<cody-somerville> Sure.
<emgent> i should upload it in universe, it`s a native ubuntu white hat tool for pt reports
<emgent> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=uwha
<cody-somerville> emgent, Have you talked to anybody else about this?
<emgent> yep security team
<cody-somerville> Is there any reason why it can't be shipped in ubuntu-dev-tools instead of having its own package?
<emgent> uwha is only for ubuntu whitehat member and contributors, i dont think that is good idea add uwha in ubuntu-dev-tools
<emgent> uwha is an Ubuntu White Hat group tool
<cody-somerville> emgent, In which case I suggest you to use your team PPA
<cody-somerville> Wouldn't that be easier for your team?
<emgent> uhm ok np
<emgent> cody-somerville: feel free to remove this package in revu and thanks for all
<cody-somerville> Okay :)
<emgent> :)
<cody-somerville> I guess someone else will have to nuke it
<cody-somerville> I don't seem to have any powers there.
<cody-somerville> ajmitch, ^^
<emgent> argh ok np :)
<emgent> i will ask to siretart
<cody-somerville> emgent, hopefully you can get him to fix my account too ;]
<emgent> hehe ok cody-somerville :)
<wgrant> What needs doing?
<wgrant> cody-somerville: What's broken with your account?
<wgrant> emgent: Archived.
<cody-somerville> wgrant, It says I'm a contributor and not developer.
<cody-somerville> so I can't do anything
<emgent> ok thanks wgrant
<wgrant> cody-somerville: You're a reviewer now.
<cody-somerville> woot.
<cody-somerville> wgrant, wait
<cody-somerville> Is there different types of "profiles" besides reviewer and contributor?
<cody-somerville> *Are
<wgrant> There's admin as well.
<cody-somerville> Okay.
<cody-somerville> So, anyone else need anything before I head off? :)
<BluntObject> Hi
<BluntObject> I am looking for someone who is willing to mentor me into building Ubuntu deb packagse
<BluntObject> s/packagse/packages
<BluntObject> Any takers?
<BluntObject> I am fully familiar with building RPM packages
<BluntObject> but want to get rolling with debs now.
<BluntObject> Need just a few pointers
<BluntObject> Anyone, please?
<cody-somerville> Hi BluntObject
<cody-somerville> We have a mentoring program.
<BluntObject> cody-somerville: Hi
<BluntObject> Can you point me in the right direction pelase?
<cody-somerville> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<BluntObject> Let me check that out. BRB
<BluntObject> cody-somerville: I think the packaging guide will get me on my way.
<BluntObject> Thanks for the pointers.
<cody-somerville> :)
<BluntObject> FYI - I am VERY familiar with building RPM packages
<BluntObject> Have done LOTS of it.
<BluntObject> Just lost at see with the deb tools.
<BluntObject> s/see/sea
<BluntObject> Anyhow, must get on with reading and doing it.
<BluntObject> bye.
<cody-somerville> :)
 * cody-somerville waves.
<wgrant> 5~/win 48
<wgrant> Gah.
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> I know why I keep doing that.
<wgrant> Intrepid gnome-terminal bug.
<wgrant> Well, misfeature.
<lifeless> wgrant: whats the feature?
<wgrant> lifeless: Ctrl+Pg{Up,Dn} now send the character to the terminal if there are no more tabs in that direction.
<lifeless> oh, lol
<lifeless> thats terrible
<wgrant> I always keep my irssi as the first tab, so I don't have to press Ctrl+PgUp the perfect number of times.
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> I used uxterm :P, but I can imagine the trouble
<wgrant> superm1: Any objections to me trying to rebase our vlc on sid's? We're not toooo dissimilar.
<superm1> wgrant, maintaining our x264 and friends still during our build ?
<superm1> wgrant, or dropping the fun stuff....
<wgrant> superm1: Why can't we convince it to use the external versions?
<superm1> wgrant, that's fine
<superm1> as long as the support is still there in some fashion
<superm1> i dont know that the build system was conducive to that
<superm1> but otherwise have at it :)
<wgrant> I'm trying.
<wgrant> It has altogether too many build-depends.
<superm1> there were a few that got added in as launchpad bugs saying to add more support
<superm1> that debian may not have
<wgrant> All that was missing was libpulse-dev (which I've added, along with the rest of the PulseAudio stuff), subversion (which I was going to ask you about) and libdirectfb-dev (which I'm yet to look into).
<whs> I'm merging http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/thaifonts-arundina.html to ubuntu. In copyright file, where should I edit?
<wgrant> There's also one other patch missing in Debian - 022_no_cpu_consumption.diff, which I can't find an explanation for.
<wgrant> whs: Why are you editing it?
<whs> wgrant# I want that package to be in ubuntu. Does it need change?
<wgrant> whs: It does not.
<wgrant> !info thaifonts-arundina intrepid
<ubottu> Package thaifonts-arundina does not exist in intrepid
<wgrant> superm1: It seems happy with an external x264.
<whs> wgrant# what about the changelog?
<superm1> wgrant, great :)
<wgrant> whs: We sync most of our stuff from Debian - most packages need no changes at all, and will appear in Ubuntu automatically.
<whs> ok, thanks
<wgrant> !info thaifonts-arundina intrepid
<ubottu> Package thaifonts-arundina does not exist in intrepid
<wgrant> Don't lie!
<wgrant> It is there.
<wgrant> !info thaifonts-arundina sid
<ubottu> 'sid' is not a valid distribution
<wgrant> !info thaifonts-arundina intrepid
<wgrant> configure seems to only be reporting missing CDDB and DAAP support, which looks good so far...
<wgrant> I doubt the Mozilla plugin will work, but we'll see...
 * wgrant looks for videos to test both x264 and the Mozilla plugin.
<bliZZardz> DktrKranz: am in :)
<nxvl> bliZZardz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<DktrKranz> bliZZardz, also, you could want to have a look at one of these packages https://bugs.launchpad.net/~pythonistas/+packagebugs
<nxvl> DktrKranz: i was looking for you
<bliZZardz> what is Motu alla bout?
<nxvl> DktrKranz: can you please take a look at Bug #241774
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241774 in gtkhtml3.8 "gtkhtml3.8 shouldn't build-depend on libgail-dev" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241774
<nxvl> bliZZardz: MOTU stands for Master of the Universe
<nxvl> bliZZardz: which are the people in charge of universe/ and multiverse
<nxvl> well need to run
<nxvl> back here in half an hour
<bliZZardz> cool...am in this ...
 * bliZZardz joins MOTU :)
<RAOF> Can anyone else reach miro's bugtracker? (link from http://www.getmiro.com)
<DktrKranz> RAOF, no problems here
<RAOF> DktrKranz: Thanks.  Urgh, that means it's my problem :(
<DktrKranz> have you tried with a proxy
<DktrKranz> ?
<RAOF> No.  I'll just give this box a bit of a restart; wierd things are happening :)
<DktrKranz> heh
<RAOF> Well, I've fixed that bug anyway.
<RAOF> Then I can report it upstream, once I can actually connect :)
<DktrKranz> sometimes *nix have to be restarted, it happens once in a lifetime, but it happens :)
<RAOF> I'd just like to reset my hardware to a known-good state, and kill all the processes.  Such as the one keeping my webcam active.
 * DktrKranz will go for a u-u-s scan
<RAOF> Ha!  Miro is merged, like a fox!
<persia> Anyone looking for an opportunity to learn GTK better?
<AnAnt__> persia: Hello
<persia> AnAnt__: Hello.
<AnAnt__> persia: just reminding you of the REVUs
<persia> AnAnt__: Definitely on my list :)
<AnAnt__> persia: thanks
<RAOF> persia: What for?
<RAOF> (GTK, that is)
<persia> RAOF: There's somewhere in the vicinity of 200 packages that still use GTK+ 1.2.  Be nice to drop that already, and I suspect a fair number of upstreams would be happy for a patch.
<RAOF> Really that many?  Owch.
<wgrant> 178. Ow.
<persia> And that only counts direct rdepends on libgtk1.2.  There's all the indirect depends as well...
<portahex> 1.2 -> 2.0 isn't trivial
<portahex> just ask the xmms people!
<persia> portahex: It's really not trivial at all.  On the other hand, it's possible.
<portahex> i used an app where it was a compile-time flag
<portahex> that was impressive
<persia> Tricky bits will be the popular ones like xemacs, nethack, and the like.
<persia> Some might not need it.  jscalibrator only provides a UI for an essentially unused library.  yelp can do most of what gman does, etc.
<portahex> i suspect the authors of those olde-time apps will be against any gtk2 move, for new == bloat
<persia> portahex: Maybe.  Some are dead.  Some might like to be included (as GTK+1.2 is going away, if not for intrepid, likely for intrepid+1)
<RAOF> What?  xemacs still uses gtk 1.2?
<portahex> persia, yeah, but many app devs don't care, and insist that the old libs are best. again, look at xmms
<portahex> persia, consider all the pain they had shoehorning utf8 into it, yet they still use 1.2
<persia> portahex: You're thinking of the more careful upstreams.  There are lots that don't support UTF8 yet.
<DktrKranz> persia, there's something on debian side too, but I don't know progress made there
<persia> DktrKranz: Some, but not lots.  That's part of why I mentioned it here.
<DktrKranz> it's not a release goal, not for lenny at least
 * portahex files some facetious RC bugs, for kicks
<DktrKranz> probably they will get more attention if they decide to promote to release goal for lenny + 1
<persia> I think it was rejected for lenny as being too much: but I suspect it for lenny+1.
<persia> Similar to the WX2.4 transition: Debian did some, then we did some for Gutsy, and then Debian did some more, and now it will be gone for both lenny and intrepid.
 * DktrKranz thinks about python 2.x => python 3(000)
<persia> DktrKranz: That'll be a bit.  There's still stuff broken with 2.5.
<DktrKranz> hard to catch them
<portahex> pythonamon, i choose you!
<persia> DktrKranz: Need an automated test environment, to install each app, try running it, and test the exit value.
<DktrKranz> persia, exactly what we DON'T have :/
<persia> DktrKranz: Yeah, well.  You need hardware :)
<DktrKranz> I met a DD yesterday, they have similar issues when doing QA
<DktrKranz> lack of hardware, manpower and how to test packages effectively
<persia> Absolutely.  Most of the code we use for QA is shared between Debian and Ubuntu.
<DktrKranz> We talked about file conflicts when dist-upgrading, there's some WIP which needs attention
<DktrKranz> edos related
<bliZZard1> need a mentor!
<wgrant> superm1: I've got a rebased vlc for Hardy and Intrepid in my PPA. It seems to work fine, and has no extra embedded sources, but I'd like a second opinion.
<emgent> morning
<devfil> hi emgent :)
<emgent> bliZZard1: https://edge.launchpad.net/~motu-mentoring-reception
<persia> bliZZard1: What sort of thing would you like to do?  For many things, asking in this channel can get you a head start whilst you wait.
<bliZZard1> persia : am new here and want to contribute. Am just learning the basics.. hence any one good mentor to sustain would be good
<bliZZard1> should i send an email to the mailing list?
<persia> bliZZard1: If you've requested a mentor, that's your best solution to get one.  Sending mail won't help.
<persia> If you want to get started whilst you wait, you might review some of the open bugs, and see if you know a solution.
<bliZZard1> persia : i have requested a mentor only here, and not in the mailing list.
<bliZZard1> i am looking at open bugs
<persia> If you do, we'd be happy to help you get it into the archives.  This isn't a replacement for a mentor, but may give you something to do while you wait.
<bliZZard1> at Pythonistas
<bliZZard1> ok..
<persia> Oh.  Here isn't the best place.  You want to contact the mentoring-reception team.
<bliZZard1> as am comfortable with Python, would Pythonistas be the right place to start?
<persia> Pythonista's is a very open team, and appreciate help.  They tend to be quite helpful.
<persia> Note that most of the pythonistas team work is done for both Debian and Ubuntu, rather than just Ubuntu, so you'll get exposed to a wider variety of processes.
<bliZZard1> persia : but looks like there are no open bugs
<persia> bliZZard1: In any python packages?  I find that hard to believe.
<bliZZard1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/%7Epythonistas
<bliZZard1> Cannot see any there
<emgent> ARGH
<emgent> one Italian agency uses the logo of ubuntu in the selling houses newspaper -.-
<persia> bliZZard1: Try https://bugs.launchpad.net/~pythonistas/+packagebugs , and look in the "open" column.  There are 249 bugs available, in a variety of packages.
<bliZZard1> ok..got it... how it didnt show before!
<persia> There's a difference between bugs related to a team, and bugs in packages watched by a team.  I'm not sure why it is that way, but for teams that handle a selection of packages, it is often better to look at the packagebugs page.
<elky> emgent, link?
<emgent> elky: this is an italian newspaper, not online. :\
<bliZZard1> persia : thanks. let me look at it and Q here , if i have any
<persia> bliZZard1: Good luck, and thanks for helping.
<bliZZard1> one more quick Q,am using IRC from GAIM, though my nick is 'bliZZardz', why does it show 'bliZZard1' here??
<elky> emgent, the steps 'scan' and 'upload' may need inserting somewhere in the request then :)
<emgent> sure i will do :)
<persia> Invisible nick conflict.  Try "/nick bliZZardz", and see what message you get.  You might want to have a private chat with NickServ
<bliZZardz> persia : I have applied for  a membership in the Pythonista team - do i need to solve some bugs etc to become a member? how does this work?
<persia> bliZZardz: I have no idea.  I'm not a pythonista :)  Many teams like to see some work as part of an application to join, and anyone is generally welcome to fix bugs, no matter in which teams they may or may not happen to have membership.
<bliZZardz> understanable
<stevenbrown> hey all, I can't find any quick examples of packaging a library... no step by step examples at all, actually.  is there some documentation you can point me to?
<persia> stevenbrown: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<stevenbrown> persia: thx, I ran across this... but it doesn't really have a step-by-step....  like.. what am i supposed to do after using the dh_make -l ?  Can't do a debuild...  do I have to manually create the lib and lib-dev packages?
<persia> stevenbrown: Hmm.  I'm not very familiar with what dh_make -l gives you.
<persia> At the end, debuild will work, but to get there, your best bet is likely that guide.  You might look at some other libraries in the same language as the one you are packaging as samples.
<stevenbrown> persia: dh_make -l just creates the debian folder, as usual, but it adds two folders lib<name> and lib<name>-dev to it with the basic deb "data" layout, I guess (DEBIAN folder,  usr/etc...)
<stevenbrown> persia: anyway, thanks.  I'll have to spend some time on that guide.  I just found it weird.. I couldn't find any example of packaging a lib..
<albert23> stevenbrown: the MOTU school may help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/LibraryPackaging. The second part goes through library packaging step by step.
<stevenbrown> oh awesome.  I'll look at that!  Thanks! :)
<bliZZardz> persia : PM'ed you
<cyberix> What would be the best example package for Python library packaging?
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> Shirish Agarwal here?
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger2: as shirish
<Hobbsee> [00:49] [Whois] shirish is a user on channels: #launchpad #ubuntu-meeting
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> thanks, already catched him :)
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger2: caught, fyi.
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> oh... yes :/
<Hobbsee> (catched does not exist)
<Hobbsee> :)
<laga> smartass. ;)
<Hobbsee> laga: heh.  tis an old habit from proofreading documents - including de-denglishing the ubuntu release notes.
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> I understand, yes... I just often forget such forms for some verbs
<Hobbsee> english is a crazy language.
<Hobbsee> yet, in some ways, so is something like german.  or japanese.  :(
<laga> Hobbsee: TBH, i had "did you mean "caught?" pop up in my head, but i didn't bother to type it out
<laga> you'll have irregular verbs in all languages, i guess
<Hobbsee> yeah
 * Kopfgeldjaeger2 is really ashaming hisself
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> :p
<laga> Hobbsee: BTW: so, when proofreading, you'd comment on all mistakes in IRC? ;)
<Hobbsee> laga: i usually grab the text, stick it in a text file, and hand the done version back
<Hobbsee> or ask for clarification, or say "you may want to do this"
<Hobbsee> or sometimes it's entirely over irc, yes.
<Hobbsee> (they can then run diff as appropriate)
<laga> Hobbsee: i was just messin' with ya. ;)
<Hobbsee> i know :P
 * Hobbsee messes with laga, the next time he asks for a review
<laga> heh. darn.
<Hobbsee> :P
<SpookyET> hi
<SpookyET> What's the workaround to renaming files? foo.install does not seem to allow renaming of files making it quite worthless.
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> cp in debian/rules ?
<ScottK> mv more likely.
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> Is bug #240191 worth doing an SRU? and is the intrepid-debdiff OK?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240191 in postr "Please backport or SRU postr 0.12.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240191
<SpookyET> Why would you make an install wrapper that has less features than install
<SpookyET> I'm using CDBS and I have a install/foo:: with some mv rules. mv complains that it can't find the files.  debian/foo/ is empty.
<SpookyET> http://paste2.org/p/41679 I don't understand why the custom install rule is not executed last. It runs to early and mv can't find the file
<ScottK-laptop> SpookyET: Does your package use Python distutils (i.e. setup.py)?
<ScottK-laptop> If you do, you probably need include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/python-distutils.mk in your debian/rules.
<cyberix> Is it ok to copy a version requirement from upstream web site to package?
<cyberix> without verifying that it really doesn't work with earlier version
<cyberix> s
<cyberix> Or would it be preferable to just leave the version requirement out and only depend on the required package.
<joaopinto> cyberix, regardless if it works or not with a previous version, the upstream documentation should be followed
<cyberix> joaopinto: Ok. Thanks.
<norsetto> hullo
<RoAkSoAx> hi all... anyone know how to create a autotools rerun patch?
<directhex> carefully
<geser> RoAkSoAx: do you need to rerun autoconf? is the change too big to manually patch it?
<RoAkSoAx> geser, yeah i need to rerun autotools, otherwise it wont build....
<geser> RoAkSoAx: dpatch?
<RoAkSoAx> geser,  the package i'm working on is blam, and the hardy package had a autotools_rerun patch... without it, it won't build
<geser> RoAkSoAx: which patch system does it use?
<RoAkSoAx> geser, cdbs
<geser> hmm, in that case I'd try to create a copy of the package, run autotools on it, and diff -Nur the original dir and the copy
<geser> and check if the diff looks sane (only changes to expected files)
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: what's the problem?
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, need to create a autotools rerun patch
<RoAkSoAx> geser, thanks i'll try :)
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: why?
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, otherwise the package won't build
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: package?
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, blam
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> i have work on it before
<nxvl> i think
 * nxvl checks
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: have you merged the Build-Depends?
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: in this case you can't drop any or other
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: you need to do a merge of the 2 of them
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, merged the Build-Depends as in using the debian ones??
<nxvl> not
<nxvl> nop
<nxvl> as in using the higher versions of the 2 of them
<nxvl> for example in debian you have libgecko2.0-cil (>= 0.11) and in ubuntu libgecko2.0-cil (>= 0.11-3ubuntu4~asac6)
<nxvl> so you need tu use the ubuntu one
<nxvl> but
<nxvl> for mono-mcs in ubuntu you have 1.1.17 and fo debian 1.2.6, so you need to use debian one
<nxvl> so you need to use a combination of the 2 of them
<nxvl> otherwise it won't work
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, i believe that libgecko2.0-cil (>= 0.11-3ubuntu4~asac6) no longer on the repos for intrepid
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: but you can have a higher version
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: and that's what it said inthere
<RoAkSoAx> Package libgecko2.0-cil
<RoAkSoAx>     * intrepid (libs): CLI binding for the GtkMozEmbed library, unstable version
<RoAkSoAx>       0.11-3ubuntu4: amd64 i386
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> 0.11-3ubuntu4 >= 0.11-3ubuntu4~asac6
<nxvl> so it's fine
<RoAkSoAx> yep
<RoAkSoAx> i checked all that
<nxvl> try first to merge the build-depends
<nxvl> maybe that fix the build
<RoAkSoAx> but... wont build cause of the rerun_autotools patch, and by removing the patch... won't build either
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: then check why it fails
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: maybe debian or upstream has do changes on the file that patch patches
<nxvl> ivoks: hiQ
<nxvl> ivoks: are you still sick :P
<ivoks> nxvl: hi! how are you!
<RoAkSoAx> i think that's why i have to rerun autotools
<ivoks> eh... ?
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> ivoks: fine, working on augeas
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blam/+bug/226670
<ivoks> nice...
<nxvl> ivoks: it seem really cool
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226670 in blam "[wishlist]Please merge blam 1.8.5-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<nxvl> ivoks: it will make us do a lot of less work
<nxvl> ivoks: so i think we can have ucsa before 10.4, which was our goal
<ivoks> nxvl: does it support .d directories? :)
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: have you tried to apply that patch by hand
<nxvl> ivoks: i think it does, but the problem now is that it has not much lenses, so it doesn't support much services
<nxvl> ivoks: but i don't think it will have much problems since it uses a tree which is equal to the fs
<nxvl> ivoks: so it won't be hard to use conf.d, that must be declared on ucsa, not on the lib
<ivoks> right...
<nxvl> ivoks: the lib takes the name/path of a file and the components you want to change/read and the value to write them
<nxvl> ivoks: and it write to the file
<ivoks> nxvl: i see, so, name and location of conf file is irrelevant
<nxvl> ivoks: so you just need to pass the conf.d path to it
<nxvl> ivoks: yep
<nxvl> ivoks: kind of
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, yes, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/22197/
<nxvl> ivoks: i haven't test it that far since i've been busy this days, but it seems to be that way according to the documentation
<nxvl> ivoks: if you want to try it, there is a quick tour on the web page which tells you how to use the augtool, so you can test and send me your findings/fix it/whatever
<ivoks> i'll take a look at it some other day, cause it's past 10PM here :)
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: 98?
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, just testing :P
<nxvl> ivoks: yes, i didn't say now, just when you have some time
<nxvl> :D
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl,  i just changed the patchname to 98 so that i create tha patch name with cdbs-edit-patch
<ivoks> nxvl: i have to finish some short term objectives for 8.10, like mail server :D
<nxvl> ivoks: yes, we all are busy, if you can't there is no problem, but thanks for point me on some test cases :D
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, well anyways, after applying the patch still shows the same error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/22198/
<nxvl> ivoks: on the other hand if you find some time to do it, i will be really thankful :D
<ivoks> nxvl: will do ;)
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: yes, because it doesn't apply the patch correctly
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, yep, that's why  i was wondering how to create a new autotools rerun patch
<nxvl> i love terminator!
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: easy, just apply the patch by hand as in read the patch and apply the changes editing the configure file
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: the problem is as i said earlier the configure has changes and it's faling trying to find the lines to change
<nxvl> for example, what on the previous version was in line 21196 now it's on 21808
<nxvl> and it has a new line that it isn't on the patch
<nxvl> now you have "gnome-sharp-2.0 >= \$GNOMESHARP_REQUIRED_VERSION\"") >&5" which is not on the patch
<nxvl> so it's faling
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl so what to do then... remember im a newbie :PxD
<nxvl> just open 2 terminals
<nxvl> in one leave the patch open
<nxvl> (or move it to other location and open it from there)
<RoAkSoAx> ok
<nxvl> in the other create a new patch using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems#head-d9502e152da03e1c4d796358e591dc9ec7ce7707
<nxvl> and start editing the configure file with the changes on the patch
<nxvl> and that way create a new patc
<nxvl> patch*
 * pwnguin has a question about glchess
<pwnguin> why is it in universe, and also provided in gnome-games?
<ajmitch> because gnome-games incorporated a number of other packages upstream, so it may not have been removed as a separate package
<ajmitch> that's if I recall history correctly :)
<pwnguin> well im chatting with one of the gnome games debian maintainers, and he's apparently resolved the 'most duped' bug down to that
<pwnguin> most duped in gnome, i should point out
<pwnguin> hmm. well the bug itself is actually about python-triggers
<pwnguin> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524665
<ubottu> Gnome bug 524665 in glchess "Unable to import 'main' on startup" [Critical,New]
<pwnguin> im currenlty digging through LP for untouched reports =(
<kostmo> I'm trying to roll a .deb for an application written in python
<kostmo> how does one specify which files the .deb should include
<Colonel> a
<kostmo> i.e. the files listed in "Included Files" when viewed from Gdebi
<RAOF> kostmo: Generally, one builds up a mock filesystem tree in the package build directory, and pushes files there.
<RAOF> If your python project has some form of setup.py, Makefile, or other install script, you should just be able to use that.
<kostmo> ok, I have done that, but the list of "Included Files" in gdebi is not including all of the files in my mock tree
<kostmo> for instance, i have some files in /opt, but opt is not listed
<RAOF> Can you post your rules file?
<kostmo> I am using an unmodified /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.indep
<RAOF> Well, that's not going to work.  It doesn't actually build anything :).
<RAOF> All of the "build the package here", "install the package here" commands are commented out :)
<kostmo> nothing should be built, though, since it's a python script
<RAOF> Have you read the packaging guide(s)?
<kostmo> yes I've been trying to follow them
<kostmo> for the "install the package here" part, should I write a bash command that copies my mock tree?
<kostmo> I'm just wondering if there's a dh_* script that does that part automatically
<RAOF> You could just install with dh_install.
<kostmo> ok i'll try that
<RAOF> But you shouldn't _have_ a mock tree before building the package; the idea is that you start with just the code for what you want to be packaging, and then turn this into a .deb with commands in the debian/rules file.
<kostmo> hmm
<RAOF> It would help to know exactly what you're packaging; a single .py file that works as a script with no dependencies?  A python program, complete with internal libs?
<bimberi> Also, iirc Debian/Ubuntu packages shouldn't put anything under /opt.
<RAOF> Correct.
<kostmo> my app consists of 2 .py files, and a couple of images
<kostmo> my application is a GUI control app for a USB rocket launcher toy
<kostmo> where would you suggest that fits under the filesystem hierarchy?
<RAOF> Anything that you can run lives under /usr/bin; the images live under /usr/share/$PACKAGENAME
<kostmo> so actually, the second .py file is not runnable - i guess you could call it a library
<kostmo> can I create a subdirectory in /usr/bin to hold both the runnable .py file and the library file?
<kostmo> also, what is the preferred way to generate the mock hierarchy from within the 'rules' file?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-15
<CarlFK> "If you have a dvgrab binary which is linked against a libraw1394 v1, then it won't use libraw1394 v2"  how do I tell if it is that ?  or, I have the source.  how do I make it use v2?
<jmarsden> CarlFK: ldd /path/to/dvgrab  # will show you what it is linked against
<CarlFK> $ ldd /usr/bin/dvgrab |grep raw1394
<CarlFK> 	libraw1394.so.11 => /usr/lib/libraw1394.so.11 (0x00682000)
<CarlFK> 	libraw1394.so.8 => /usr/lib/libraw1394.so.8 (0x004b2000)
<CarlFK> so that looks like the "wont use v2" case, right?
<CarlFK> .8 is v1, .11 is v2 (i think...)
<directhex> your numbers are correct
<CarlFK> building dvgrab deps on libavc1394-dev, which deps on libraw1394-8... how can I tell the build process to ignore libraw1394-8 and use -11?
<directhex> an interesting packaging conundrum!
<CarlFK> mak'n me grumpy
<directhex> there's one way. it's messy though
<directhex> you can generally force autofoo variables by passing them to configure
<directhex> i.e. if there's an AC_PATH_PROG check which stores in the FOOBAR variable, then ./configure FOOBAR=baz works
<RAOF> But that won't work, surely.  You'll have two different ABI-incompatible versions of libra1394 trying to load in the same process.
<directhex> so you can force the variable which defines the includes for libraw, to essentially hide the v1 include
 * RAOF reads some more scrollback, and is surprised that dvgrab works.  Clearly, he is insufficiently awesome at ELF semantics.
<directhex> happy little ELF!
<directhex> okay, 3am means sleeps
<MTecknology> Any ideas how to fix this? http://pastebin.com/m79b8c728
<MTecknology> not a motu question really, but you guys are smart :)
<Hobbsee> MTecknology: install libx11-dev for a start
<RAOF> MTecknology: Really, really not a motu question, but "apt-file search xft.pc" will be useful for you.
<RAOF> The makefile is very considerately telling you what packages you need to install, too.
<RAOF> Also, howdie Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> heya!
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: RAOF: thanks ;)
<MTecknology> :)*
<MTecknology> make file doesn't have anything in it - I'm running apt-file update atm
<RAOF> I mean: the makefile is telling you what it needs: "package x11 not found... directory containing 'x11.pc'"
<MTecknology> oh
<RAOF> Man, we should totally see if the awesome font guy would be willing to licence some of his fonts under a free license.  Museo Sans makes an excellent desktop font.
 * RAOF is aware that statement lacked precision.
<MTecknology> RAOF: I installed the package it listed but still have that error
<MTecknology> libx11-dev fixed the other
<RAOF> You've installed libxft-dev, right?
<MTecknology> ya
<RAOF> Want to pastebin the build error again?  It really should be different :)
<MTecknology> doh....
<MTecknology> I did something really moronic
<MTecknology> I have this now - http://pastebin.com/m5b590c21
<RAOF> MTecknology: apt-file search X11/StringDefs.h -> libxt-dev
<RAOF> apt-file.  It's your one-stop "what package do I need to install to make this build" shop.
<MTecknology> thanks :)
<MTecknology> more errors, but it builds now - that's what I care about :P
<MTecknology> appreciate the help :)
<StevenK> invalid conversion from 'void*' to 'GtkWidget*'
<StevenK> Bah
<StevenK> But it's just a pointer?
<RAOF> Unless it's a magical different-sized pointer?
<RAOF> Or unless it's a pointer with a different stride?
 * RAOF forgets some of that detailed C knowledge.
<StevenK> RAOF: Different stride?
<RAOF> I think I was mis-remembering.  I was thinking "how many bytes does pointer++ move by", and architectural alignment restrictions, and stuff.
<StevenK> A pointer is a pointer?
<RAOF> Not always?  I mean, you can't do void * arithmetic?
<StevenK> You can have maintainable code, or you can have pointer arithmetic
<RAOF> Heh.
 * StevenK adds an explicit cast
<fabrice_sp> Good morning
<fabrice_sp> a 'morning' question: a bug report I sent to debian has been closed on the 13th, with a new version of the package, but it's not yet in Ubuntu. The autosync wasn't supposed to run on a daily basis?
<ajmitch> no, it is run manually by an archive admin
<ajmitch> especially around alpha freeze time
<fabrice_sp> ohhh. I really thought it was a kind of cron job or similar... I'll wait then. Thanks!
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> Hey dholbach
<dholbach> hiya fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> dholbach, by the way, Debian adopted the changes to solve Bug #384936, but they didn't put any Replaces in the control file...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384936 in gmerlin "libgmerlin0 cause a coredump in new version of openmovieeditor because the lib package miss the plugins" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384936
<fabrice_sp> when this package will be synced, I'll close the bug report
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: is there files that are moved from one package to the other?
<fabrice_sp> dholbach, yes: the solution is the same as the one I gave (moving /usr/lib/gmerlin/plugins from gmerlin to libgmerlin0 package)
<fabrice_sp> clearly, he should have added it
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: just drop them a quick email or follow up on the bug report - it should be easy for them to still add it :)
<fabrice_sp> ok: will do :-) Thanks
<dholbach> rock!
<dholbach> hiya ara!
<ara> hey dholbach
<jmarsden> If upstream accidentally includes a .o file in their source tarball, what is the best way to handle things -- aside from waiting until their next tarball release?
<geser> remove it in the clean target to it gets rebuild
<lifeless> jmarsden: is it accidental ?
<lifeless> jmarsden: or deliberate
<jmarsden> I'll ask to be sure, but I'm fairly sure it is accidental.  The source .cpp is there for it...
<lifeless> then as geser says, though that will cause 'unrepresentable changes' to turn up.
<jmarsden> OK, thanks.
<siretart> revu is back now, sorry for the inconvenience
<wlx> How should do with the wrong directory layout? I want to create a package for ncview(http://meteora.ucsd.edu/~pierce/ncview_home_page.html), the source .tar.gz include three sub-directories, what I want to do is on one of them(the ncview-1.93g directory)
<siretart`> wlx: talk to upstream to release 2 or 3 tarballs then?
<wlx> siretart, ok, I will try that. thanks.
<wlx> and no any other technical method to deal this case?
<siretart`> wlx: of course there are, you could repackage the tarball yourself. In most cases, upstream has reasons for that, and the fact that you're asking indicates that you don't understand them
<wlx> siretart, if I repackage the tarball myself, where should I indicate it in the debian directory?
<siretart`> wlx: the debian directory should not go into the tarball, but in the .diff.gz
<wlx> siretart, yes, I know that. I mean in which file I could told other people what I do.
<siretart`> wlx: I thing the developer's reference recommends debian/README.source
<siretart`> wlx: and I find it convenient to provide an get-orig-source target in debian/rules that actually does the tarball remangling. For more complicated package I write that make target to call a script debian/get-orig-source.sh. Shell is often easier to implement that
<AnAnt> is there something wrong with packages.ubuntu.com ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: no.  and we don't run it, btw
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: ?
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: who runs it
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: try searching for byobu on packages.ubuntu.com
<Hobbsee> Please contact Frank Lichtenheld if you encounter any problems!
<Hobbsee> third line down, on the page
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: it comes up correctly.
<Hobbsee> er, almost correctly
<AnAnt> ?
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: I get, that it does not exist
<Hobbsee> wonder where the binaries are for that, in karmic
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: actually for any search I don't get results for intrepid, jaunty, nor karmic
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: are you looking in jaunty?  it's a new addition to karmic.
<Hobbsee> if you search by source, it's there
<Hobbsee> not by binary, for some reason
<trip0-nb1> in the control file, should the src package depend on all the build deps of the package (ie libgtk2.0-dev) ?
<AnAnt> ah, that's the problem them
<Hobbsee> the lack of binaries shown there is a bug, though
<Hobbsee> and would be worth contacting Frank for
<AnAnt> probably, it's a temp. problem
<AnAnt> thanks
<kmdm> Anyone around who I can /msg to check if a security bug has already been raised against a package before I log it?
<lifeless> just log it
<lifeless> if its a dup the security team will be able to dup it quickly
<kmdm> done, ta. Just thought I'd try and remove dups since it's likely to have a dup given it has a CVE number :)
<Jomyoot> does apt-build really improve performance?
<Jomyoot> Hello
<james_w> probably not for most packages
<james_w> the sponsoring queue is huge
<james_w> if you have a spare 10 minutes please review something from it
<mok0> I'm on the ftbfs list currently
 * iulian has just started.
<mok0> The sponsoring list is full of crud
<mok0> It should be cleaned out
<Laney> thekorn: can you comment on bug 387297?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387297 in ubuntu-dev-tools "manage-credentials should not ask for Launchpad password directly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387297
<thekorn> Laney: sure, later today when I'm back home
<Laney> thanks
<rmcbride> Hi! I did a dput of what I thought was a perfectly good python-configglue package to REVU, but it hasn't turned up. Anyone able to fish it out of rejects and give feedback on what I screwed up?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<james_w> would someone have a couple of minutes to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/python-oauth please?
<james_w> it's another new launchpadlib dependency
<james_w> (I think there's just one more after this)
<stefanlsd> james_w: what about a get-orig-source rule?
<james_w> stefanlsd: true, it should probably have one
<james_w> I don't like them much though
<stefanlsd> james_w: yeah. you can see my gears rules on revu for one that i did against google code...
<james_w> well I've uploaded now :-)
<stefanlsd> james_w: kk :)
<Laney> james_w: will this allow us to replace manage-credentials?
<Laney> (if oauth stuff is in lplib)
<james_w> they have oauth stuff now
<james_w> I think this is just because they ported to using a library
<james_w> rather than making the HTTP calls themselves
<Laney> alright
<siretart`> is there some special magic I need to do in order to get an entry appear in gnome-panel besides installing the .desktop file into /usr/share/applications?
<siretart`> I've isntalled a file there, but it just doesn't want to appear :(
<RainCT> siretart`: I think you need to put some file in /usr/lib or something like that
<siretart`> RainCT: err, uh?
<RainCT> err nevermind
<RainCT> I thought you meant an applet :P
<RainCT> siretart`: can you paste the .desktop file somewhere?
<siretart`> RainCT: sure: http://pbot.rmdir.de/faa426681382140304069f10ee6302ce
<RainCT> siretart`: do you have gmplayer installed?
<RainCT> siretart`: the TryExec= line is looking if the command "gmplayer -fontconfig" works and only if it does the entry is displayed
<RainCT> (s/works/is found and the user has rights to execute it/)
<siretart`> oh, that's interesting to know...
<james_w> Path to an executable file on disk used to determine if the program is actually installed. If the path is not an absolute path, the file is looked up in the $PATH environment variable. If the file is not present or if it is not executable, the entry may be ignored (not be used in menus, for example).
<james_w> so I think it should just be "gmplayer"
<james_w> (that's TryExec_
<siretart`> okay, I've edited my /usr/share/doc/applications/mplayer.desktop file
<siretart`> do I need something else to "activate" the new file?
<RainCT> siretart`: it's /usr/share/applications/, not /usr/share/doc/applications/
<siretart`> arg
<RainCT> hehe
<siretart`> yes, it is in /usr/share/applications
<siretart`> not in doc
<siretart`> http://pbot.rmdir.de/401f39be843eef87448745042ff1936f
<RainCT> siretart`: No. It shows up here if I remove the TryExec line
<siretart`> hm. I've removed that and it still doesn't for me...
<siretart`> wtf?
<RainCT>  (btw, the Comment is wrong, it should start with a verb and explains what you can do with the applicaion, eg. "Play movies and songs", and the Name should be more descriptive: "MPlayer Media Player", although this sounds a bit redundant :P)
<ivoks> Chritope Sauthier?
<ivoks> Christophe
<RainCT> ivoks: that's huats, doesn't seem to be online right now
<ivoks> ah, thanks
<RainCT> no problem
<ivoks> what's the procedure with motu mentorship?
<ivoks> i have a candidate that's more than good for motu status
<ivoks> i've been mentoring him for a month
 * RainCT looks at porthose 
<james_w> ivoks: if you think they are ready for MOTU then you should encourage them to apply
<ivoks> oh, i see
<james_w> any REVU admins around?
<RainCT> james_w: yes?
<stefanlsd> ivoks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers has the details of applying
<james_w> RainCT: could you find out why the upload of python-configglue isn't showing up?
<RainCT> james_w: because the _amd64.changes file was uploaded, instead of _source.changes
<james_w> thanks RainCT
<james_w> rmcbride ^
<rmcbride> ah, thanks both
<RainCT> you're welcome
<RainCT> oh, and I can tell you now that I don't like the short description of the package :P
<siretart`> RainCT: patches against the mplayer packages in karmic welcome :-P
<rmcbride> RainCT: I'll update that. Thanks. I also know what I screwed up with my new package workflow.
<RainCT> siretart`: aren't you going to upload?
<siretart`> I'd love to be able to verify that the .desktop file is working, then I'll commit to git and then upload the beast
<RainCT> siretart`: so you can improve the Name and Comment while you're at it ;)
<RainCT> (I can also give you Catalan translations for them if you want)
<siretart`> RainCT: as said, patches welcome
<stefanlsd> Does anyone else have issues with staging.launchpad.net, i get so many timeouts when testing things..
<RainCT> siretart`: http://pbot.rmdir.de/5a56874f08049908851c37d6bd3b9efd
<siretart`> RainCT: okay, I've installed now that file, but it still doesn't love me
<siretart`> I'll continue tomorrow
<siretart`> thanks for your file!
<RainCT> sure
<hemanth> hi , how do i pack a sh file to a deb file ?
<directhex> hemanth, by writing a package
<hemanth> directhex, did not get u :(
<directhex> hemanth, a .deb isn't just a compressed archive. there's lots of other things that go with it. you need to create a source package.
<hemanth> directhex, any automated script for doing that , i tried giftwrap didnt work
<hemanth> directhex, dh_make is the only go is it ? , i need to create debian related directories and then pack it is it ?
<azeem> hemanth: are you trying to contribute to Ubuntu, or is this for your own stuff?
<azeem> if the latter, something like checkinstall might work as well
<hemanth> azeem, for ubuntu
<azeem> hemanth: in that case, there is nothing besides dh_make and/or doing it yourself
<hemanth> azeem, ok just to test , i tired checkinstall and it saysmake: *** No rule to make target `install'.  Stop.
<azeem> hemanth: maybe it can only do Makefile-oriented packages, dunno
<azeem> never used checkinstall myself
<hemanth> azeem, ok
<hemanth> azeem, i made a sudo checkinstall make install_package , a bed file is ready and is installed , as it's a script there is no effect of the installation, so what is the remedy ?
<blizzkid> kirkland: you here?
<blizzkid> or anyone else who knows a lot about encrypted Private folder?
<azeem> hemanth: as I said, I don't know about checkinstall
<Nafallo> blizzkid: how about just asking the question and anyone that might now the answer can shim in.
<Nafallo> ?
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/+bug/383307 <- somebody will plz ever accept this :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383307 in audacious-plugins "Please merge audacious-plugins 2.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<blizzkid> Nafallo: you're right :)
<blizzkid> I switched from ubuntu to mint as a test, but now when I "ecryptfs-mount-private" I get "ERROR: Encrypted Private is not setup properly"... Is my data lost or is there a solution?
<Nafallo> blizzkid: that sounds like a question for #ubuntu to me... this is a development channel.
<kirkland> blizzkid: -> #ecryptfs on irc.oftc.net might be best
<kirkland> blizzkid: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2009/03/mounting-your-encrypted-home-from.html
<kirkland> blizzkid: ^ how to access your data from a Jaunty livecd
<blizzkid> I'll take a look at that
<blizzkid> kirkland: I hope the lack of /var/lib/ecryptfs won't cause me too much trouble?
<kirkland> blizzkid: some minor trouble, yes, please ask in #ecryptfs on oftc.  this is *not* the appropriate channel
<blizzkid> ok, I'll go there
<gaspa> geser: is your code that feed harvest 'ftbfs' column?
<Nrrd> stefanlsd: He man, I'm looking at that patch again now
<stefanlsd> Nrrd: k. great. The patch applied cleanly. the problem was that the package currently uses a patch system, so when you tried to build the package, it tries to apply patches to the stuff you have modified, and it cant and breaks. Ideally, we want to apply the patch via the patch system...
<Nrrd> stefanlsd: that sent my head in circles :) but I kinda get ya, any guesses where I should start looking?
<stefanlsd> Nrrd: you want to start by getting the current source. apt-get source blogtk (assuming you have src in your /etc/apt/sources.list) - if not, you can apt-get install ubuntu-dev-tools and run pull-lp-source blogtk
<Nrrd> stefanlsd: got the source :)
<stefanlsd> Nrrd: ok, great. from there you can see the debian/ directory. beneath that is a patches directory. those patches get applied when the .dsc is built. Have a look here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<Nrrd> stefanlsd: cool, cheers
<stefanlsd> Nrrd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/CDBSSimplePatchsys is pretty concise...
<rmcbride> Hi again. Would anyone care to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/python-configure ? I have one advocation already.
<james_w> I'm sure rmcbride does know what the name of his package is, but the link should be http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/python-configglue :-)
<siretart> RainCT: hm. your desktop file doesn't work for me even after a reboot
<siretart> is there any way to debug why a .desktop file does not work?
<rmcbride> oops
<rmcbride> thanks james_w. I have IRC on a seperate other machine than the dev box.
<rmcbride> and my brain didn't quite bridge the copy-paste right :)
<james_w> heh
<RainCT> siretart: and there should be no need to reboot, gnome-panel looks for changed .desktop files all the time
<siretart> but why the heck it doesn't for me?!
<geser> gaspa: I don't understand your question
<bdrung_> is here a motu around, who wants to sponsor a merged package?
<gaspa> geser: is this your? http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/source/
<geser> gaspa: yes, the code behind is written by me
<gaspa> geser: ok, and is the  .csv  in harvest-data your, as well??
<bdrung_> can someone have a look at bug #383307?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383307 in audacious-plugins "Please merge audacious-plugins 2.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383307
<geser> gaspa: no, I didn't even know about it
<gaspa> geser: fine. I was asking if code of both lists is the same.
<gaspa> just it
<geser> gaspa: the FTBFS page gets its data directly from LP (uses the LP API). you can look at source if you want (see the source link at the bottom of the page)
<gaspa> already done ;)
<gaspa> geser: I've a couple of ideas to improve your page... do you mind a proof of concept, in the next days?
<geser> gaspa: go on, I don't mind. you can branch from https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~geser/+junk/qa-ftbfs if you want
<gaspa> geser: ah, cool. thanks.
<siretart> RainCT: bah! I had a broken mplayer.desktop file in my ~/.local
<RainCT> heh
<RainCT> btw, someone remembers what's the website where you can browse and install (with apturl) Ubuntu packages=
<RainCT> ?
<stefanlsd> RainCT: can you add me as a reviewer on revu please?
<RainCT> stefanlsd: done
<stefanlsd> RainCT: thanks!
<RainCT> no problem :)
<ajmitch> RainCT: does that part still have to be done manually?
<RainCT> ajmitch: Yes, but it can be done from the web now
<RainCT> ajmitch: if you want to write a cronjob or getting it at login time or whatever, patches welcome
<ajmitch> :)
<thekorn> Laney, I will comment on the bug you mentioned earlier tomorrow, too much text from leonard, I have to think about it a bit more,
<thekorn> but you are basically right, manage-credentials can easily be removed from u-dev-tools
<Laney> I just meant the --password param, but yeah
<RainCT> omg, I already like git more than SVN :/
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-16
<dcushman> How can a *NIX n00b developer with 20+ years of professional software development get up to speed and make a useful contribution?
<directhex> okay, moving here was step 1 ;)
<dcushman> I follow direction well :)
<directhex> there are a few options open to you, each has its own answers to your question
<directhex> * developer, * packager, * translator, * bug maintenance & QA, * general advocacy stuff
<directhex> where do you see yourself wanting to focus your skill set?
<dcushman> Well, I am pretty sure I could help out with new development or maintenance. Also pretty good at writing/implementing test plans.
<lajjr> dcushman: go for developer
<dcushman> Happy to do packaging also. Pretty much have done everything since Assembly on 6501 :)
<directhex> okay, it sounds like your first target should be to pick a Free Software app you like. which might sound obvious, but it's not needed for the advocacy role
<dcushman> I just want to help where it's needed.
<directhex> pick something you make use of, and you're in a position to say "X isn't quite right, it should be better"
<lajjr> same here.
<dcushman> So better to just focus on an app, than to contribute to the big picture? Just want to make for sure I understand your suggestion.
<directhex> generally speaking, the quality of work on something you're passionate about is much higher than "general" stuff you might not have intimate knowledge of
<dcushman> Very good point
<directhex> the best generalist roles are packager-related, but it sounds like you're more of a developer, which means i'd recommend you pick an app to contribute towards
<directhex> what's your current programming background?
<dcushman> .NET Developer currently focusing (Employment) on WCF/WF. Moving to DSL Modeling with Oslo/Quadrant. Language skills C#/Python/Ruby/PHP/Light on Perl.
<directhex> and are you running ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu...?
<dcushman> Software Architect is my current role. Running Jaunty on 3 boxes. Small 5 node Hadoop cluster on Jaunty server.
<directhex> okay. looking to work on desktop-related things? they're typically the most visible
<dcushman> User of Ubuntu since 5.04/linux since early days
<dcushman> Sure. But mostly just looking for something that matters to more than my companies bottom line
<dcushman> :)
<dcushman> I would say, I'm not that great at UI development.
<directhex> okay. judging by your skill set, i'm going to suggest a few apps you could look at - and the ways to look at those apps would be things like checking the bug tracker (verifying whether a bug still exists in the upstream latest source, and fixing it if need be), or just getting stuck in with features
<dcushman> Excellent. Point the way and I'll see what I can do.
<directhex> <disclosure>the team i'm a member of would benefit directly or indirectly from part of your skillset - but so would other teams - so i'm going to be as even-handed as my knowledge set stretches</disclosure>
<dcushman> Understood.
<directhex> okay. on an ubuntu desktop, there is tomboy (note-taking app) and f-spot (photo manager app), both of which are c#. there's rhythmbox (music library app) which is c, and may be replaced by banshee (c#) depending on how the apps' features stack up. on that last point, there are some things banshee is missing which it needs in order to be considered "ready" for that takeover - equally rhythmbox could do with some love to make it more
<directhex>  likely to stay entrenched
<directhex> there's stuff like RSS aggregators which you might find useful (e.g. liferea), or twitter nonsense (e.g. gwibber), or IM clients (e.g. empathy, pidgin)
<directhex> generally speaking, just use your desktop and say "man, this bit is a bit i could make my own". it's all Free, so it's all up for lovin'
<dcushman> I use Tomboy and Banshee pretty much every day. Rhythmbox seems pretty solid too.
<directhex> then i'd pick one of those. i'm not going to try and convince you which, except to say that the media players are more in need of competent workers than tomboy is, right now, but for differing reasons
<dcushman> Just out of curiosity, which project are you associated with?
<directhex> will it influence your decision?
<dcushman> not at all
<directhex> then i'm part of the debian mono group, so "anything in c#" is my remit
<dcushman> ah, just a tiny project then :)
<dcushman> I have great admiration for all the mono work done so far.
<dcushman> I've been trying to convince my employers to take a look at moving some of our simpler back end processes off the license beasts, just to get a mono project started in house.
<directhex> well, if it works for you, it's worth a shot!
<Ng> is there anything missing from bug #300814 that a universe sync request should have?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300814 in hdapsd "please sync hdapsd 1:20090401-1 from Debian/Sid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300814
<ajmitch> Ng: ubuntu-universe-sponsors team should be subscribed, and it's not really a sync from reading the comments, is it?
<directhex> Ng, it's not clear whether it should be a sync or a merge - does one of debian's recommends need to be removed or not?
<ajmitch> I think the recommended package is one that's not in ubuntu
<ajmitch> at least it's the debian maintainer requesting it
<Ng> directhex: ajmitch: I'm not exactly sure :/
<directhex> dcushman, anyway, i'd take a look at one of the media players, since you expressed an interest. rhythmbox is a very "mature" app, which unfortunately means it's starting to come across some fundamental design choices from when it was still young, and hit those issues hard. development pace has slowed - meaning people are starting to talk (prematurely) about the "death" of it. it could do with some fresh bloof to help keep it up-to-
<directhex> date and relevant with more than dull backend API changes. banshee has a much more active, vibrant development community, but has its share of outstanding bugs and issues (largely as a result of being a much younger project). it could dow tih more manpower to help work through bugs, inject exciting new features, and help them achieve their goals within a sensible timeframe
<Ng> Evgeni was just talking about it on ##ibmthinkpad ;)
<directhex> Ng, when you're certain either way between sync/merge, update the bug title to reflect it, subscribe u-u-s, and ping again in here
<directhex> if i'm still awake, you might get lucky
<dcushman> Thanks for the info and insight.
 * Laney wolf whistles
<Ng> directhex: probably easiest if he was here... which he is... Zhenech :)
<Zhenech> heya
<Zhenech> Ng said you need more info on #300814 ?
<directhex> Zhenech, not clear whether the bug is a merge or sync, as the "sync it" line also says something should be changed in debian/control
<Laney> karmic and gwibber. An unhappy marriage?
<Laney> (the message window is blankety blank)
<Zhenech> directhex, well, maybe this is just my bad knowledge of your terms :)
<Zhenech> directhex, a sync as in "1:1 copy of debians version" would do pretty well
<Laney> that is what a sync is
<ajmitch> Zhenech: sync means to "copy as is, overwrite any ubuntu changes"
<Zhenech> aye
<ajmitch> your last comment seemed to indicate that you'd change the Recommends:
<directhex> Laney, python rubbish. try gtwitter
<Laney> directhex: supports laconica?
<Zhenech> but then there is #258342 which would be grave as per debians policy
<Laney> isn't a dead project?
<directhex> Laney, dunno. patch that mutha, it's in pkg-cli-apps!
<Laney> haha
<ajmitch> Laney: gwibber has been randomly giving me issues also
<Laney> it's pretty heavily patched already iirc
<Zhenech> so just killing the recommends line would make it a "merge" (right?) and the 100% perfect solution
<ajmitch> Zhenech: yeah, pretty much
<james_w> Laney: I saw the same
<Laney> james_w: any fix?
<james_w> Laney: I suspect webkit
<ajmitch> since you said you'll drop the existing ubuntu changes related to udev?
<Laney> I don't see a bug for it. YEah, me too
<directhex> syncs i know how to take care of. merges i'd need to read the manual
<james_w> Laney: I upgraded to the daily PPA, which pulled in a newer webkit as well
<directhex> james_w, bugs? in MY webkit?
<directhex> that's unpossible!
<Laney> hm
<Laney> maybe I'll just install the webkit and see what happens
<Zhenech> ajmitch, right, these are not needed anymore, we dont ship the udev rule anymore, and postinst will remove the old cruft if any
<Laney> now now though
<ajmitch> Zhenech: great, I guess it'll only take a couple of minutes to get a new debdiff made & attached
<Zhenech> sure
<ajmitch> since directhex seems oh-so-eager to sponsor uploads today :)
<Zhenech> Architecture: i386 amd64 powerpc <- does the powerpc hurt you in any way? or will it be just ignored?
<directhex> it will be used for the totally not official powerpc buildd
<directhex> for the ps3 port!
<ajmitch> I guess it's not worth adding lpia in there anymore :)
<Zhenech> which has no accelerometer I could read out, but ok
<Zhenech> ajmitch, is lpia not for Intel Atoms?
<Zhenech> or will it run on a regular pentium/core too?
<ajmitch> it's i386 with not a lot changed in the way of compiler flags, I believe
<Zhenech> I can add it if it makes sense (there are people running lpia on their thinkpads...)
<Nrrd> stefanlsd: Thanks so much dude! New patches made, .deb built and installed :)
<ajmitch> Zhenech: I'm not sure if the lpia arch will really be supported with karmic, but I suspect it can't hurt to add it
<Zhenech> ok
<Zhenech> lpia in, recommends out. posting debdiff
<ajmitch> fetching the sid source now
<ajmitch> not that it's particularly large
<Zhenech> here you go
<Zhenech> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27970141/hdapsd_20090401-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> I don't think there's much point changing Maintainer to the MOTU list for this
<Zhenech> I read and care for the bugs, so prolly not :)
<ajmitch> I did add in bug #300814 to the changelog though
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300814 in hdapsd "please sync hdapsd 1:20090401-1 from Debian/Sid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300814
<Zhenech> ew, yes, I forgot that
<Zhenech> thanks
<ajmitch> no problem, now to just wait for it to be built & published & all :)
<Zhenech> great thanks
<Zhenech> stuff that has no ubuntu modifications stil gets autosynced, right?
<Zhenech> and stuff that isnt in ubuntu yet (because it hit debian just yesterday) has still a chace to get in too?
<Zhenech> sorry for all the questions :)
<ajmitch> yes & yes
<Zhenech> great
<ajmitch> until debian import freeze on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
<ajmitch> after that it's manual sync of new stuff
<Zhenech> judging from my mails and LP the upload was successfull
<Zhenech> thank you very much
<ajmitch> no problem
<Zhenech> then I finally can go to bed with a good feeling
<Zhenech> n8
<ajmitch> night
<kklimonda> does every merge request have to mention all remaining changes?
<kklimonda> Or is it sufficient to say that all changes remain in place?
<RAOF> All the remaining changes, IIRC.  Because each one of those changes should be justifiable, and merge requests is a good time to periodically make that justification.
<kklimonda> RAOF: even if merges are done close to each other? like a week apart or something
<RAOF> Well, the debian package has changed.
<RAOF> The MOTU wiki would be the canonical reference for this, though.
<LargePrime> hello
<LargePrime> I am looking for a piece of software that looks like one is running "green dam" spyware
<LargePrime> anyone heard of such?
<directhex> i've heard of green dam..... but it's not clear what exactly you want to do
<LargePrime> I desire to make it appear as if green dam is running, when it is nto
<LargePrime> not
<LargePrime> I have some friends who are at risk
<LargePrime> they are installing ubuntu on flash drives, and making that install appear to be windows
<LargePrime> they are required to have green dam installed.
<LargePrime> they desire to make it appear as such
<LargePrime> is that clear?
<LargePrime> directhex:
<directhex> i see
<directhex> i don't know enough about how it's supposed to look
<LargePrime> it can be downloaded.  i can get you a link
<directhex> i've never heard of such a thing, but drawing a UI not hooked up tp anything shouldn't be too hard
<LargePrime> one could even use the icon resource from the install
<LargePrime> I can get bitmaps of some screens
<LargePrime> directhex:
<directhex> LargePrime, it's 2am, i'm not going to work on this for you
<directhex> LargePrime, like i said, i don't know of anything existing, but i'm sure something could be done
<LargePrime> sorry.  I did not mean to imply you would.  I appreciate your time.  project seems very resonable to me
<LargePrime> wanted to check with another
<LargePrime> ok see you.  if you desire you may contact me at largeprime@hotmail.com
<nellery> any REVU admins around?
<ajmitch> nellery: what's up?
<nellery> ajmitch: Hi, can I be marked as a Reviewer on REVU?
<ajmitch> pay the fee & I'll happily do so ;)
<ajmitch> (done)
<nellery> ajmitch: thanks :)
<coppro> How do I request a backport?
<kiwidrew> i've decided to fix a package that's been broken in jaunty for quite some time (LP #345208).  got the package source with 'apt-get source python-pythonmagick'.  running 'debuild -S' complains about missing GPG key (since i don't have fabrice's private key, i assume).  i'm a bit lost as to what to do next...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345208 in pythonmagick "Broken package" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345208
<ajmitch> you can ignore the gpg problem, since you won't need to be signing an upload
<ajmitch> the next step would be to make a debdiff with the fix & attach that patch to the bug in launchpad, then subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<kiwidrew> okay, but debuild bails out after the gpg error...  so i don't have a source .deb yet
<ajmitch> debuild -S -us -uc
<RAOF> There isn't a source deb.  Just the .dsc, .orig.tar.gz, and .diff.gz
<kiwidrew> hmm, well i'm really quite lost now.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing doesn't seem terribly helpful.  (i've made .deb packages for my own internal projects before, but for those i just packaged up pre-built binaries and so didn't touch source .debs and that stuff...)
<kiwidrew> is there a better resource explaining what i need to do to go from what 'apt-get source python-pythonmagick' gives me to a python-pythonmagick.deb ?
<RAOF> kiwidrew: debuild.  Just don't pass in "-S", which tells debuild to _only_ build the source package (.dsc, .tar.orig.gz, .diff.gz)
<kiwidrew> ah, that's better.  now i'm actually getting somewhere.  thanks!
<jsmidt> Is there a IRC channel that shows bugs in Ubuntu as they come in/are changed?
<StevenK> #ubuntu-bugs for the former, I belive
<StevenK> *believe
<jsmidt> StevenK, thank you
<ajmitch> StevenK: that still sucks from the firehose?
<StevenK> ajmitch: I dunno :-P
<stefanlsd> Nrrd: you around?
<stefanlsd> What happens when a package gets 2 advocations on REVU? The 2nd advocate should upload it to the archive, or is there a process?
<dholbach> good morning!
<jsmidt> dholbach, would it be hard setting up harvest as either an RSS feed or something that can be broadcast of some IRC channel?
<dholbach> jsmidt: I plan to put some work into harvest to make things like that a lot easier
<dholbach> jsmidt: not in the next 2-3 weeks, but afterwards
<jsmidt> dholbach, okay thanks.
<dholbach> there's no point in working on the existing codebase as it's very web0.5 :)
<fabrice_sp> Good morning.
<fabrice_sp> Anyone with a PPC could have a look at Debian bug bug #528157 ?
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 528157 could not be found
<fabrice_sp>  Debian bug #528157
<ubottu> Debian bug 528157 in librep "librep: Compilation option -with-stack-direction=-1 has been dropped from ppc" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/528157
<fabrice_sp> NCommander perhaps?
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hiya ajmitch
<dholbach> hi ara
<ara> morning dholbach
<fabrice_sp> hey dholbach !
<ara> dholbach: do we have someone for the training session?
<fabrice_sp> will try later
<dholbach> ara: I don't - I sent a reminder to the whole team yesterday
<ara> dholbach: yes, I saw that
<didrocks> morning o/
<didrocks> dholbach: I read a lot of "regenerate debian/control in such package, it's more for people who aren't used to such packages (with debian/control.in to tell them "hey, there is a control.in there... be careful)
<dholbach> hm :)
<xnox> what's control.in ?
<xnox> never seen that before
<RAOF> xnox: read debian/rules.  That's indicative that debian/control can be autogenerated (control.in -> sometool -> control)
<didrocks> dholbach: just a tought, but if you really think this is not necessary, I can not put it, less paperwork :)
<didrocks> xnox: control.in are generic control file used to generate debian/control
<xnox> RAOF: didrocks: thanks. I'll look into it
<mrooney> Is there an rdepends equivalent for recommends? I am trying to figure out which desktop applications use which spelling libraries such as aspell.
<RAOF> mrooney: grep-aptavail should do something like that for you, I think.
<mrooney> RAOF: thanks!
<rancor][> Hi, I got a question about packaging non free, binary only software with no "generic" changelog that are distributed on the softwares web page only. Shall the changelog just contain changes to the Ubuntu deb packag?
<azeem> rancor][: I think in that case, just ship a changelog.Debian.gz, no changelog.gz
<rancor][> azeem, ah, thanks.
<xnox> rancor][: lintian will complain about a lot things. Simply apply human common-sence
<rancor][> If lintian detectes any warning, is the package "okey" anyway. For example that the package contains an extra "LICENSE"-file instead of copyright. Is this any problem or can lintian detect warnings without any conserns?
<rancor][> xnox, ah, dident see your reply. Thanks
<AnAnt_> Hello, sorry that I ask again, but when will Debian syncs stop ?
<soren> AnAnt_: June 25th.
<soren> AnAnt_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule (DebianImportFreeze)
<AnAnt_> soren: so if a new package got added 2 days in Debian, most probably it will be synced ?
<soren> AnAnt_: Certainly.
<soren> AnAnt_: Assuming the usual criteria are met, of course.
<soren> AnAnt_: E.g. that the package in Ubuntu doesn't have an "ubuntu?" version.
<AnAnt_> ok
<AnAnt_> thanks
<bigon> does anyone has in plan to merges the network manager plugins for vpn from debian?
<slytherin> bigon: which vpn?
<bigon> slytherin: network-manager-{openvpn,pptp,vpnc}
<slytherin> bigon: hmm. you should talk with asac as he manages most of the NM related packages.
<asac> bigon: awe is on it
<bigon> ok
<bigon> thx
<stefanlsd> james_w: whats the procedure with revu uploads? Does the 2nd advocate just upload? do you then archive the package?
<james_w> stefanlsd: I'm just signing the package :-)
<james_w> but yes, you are correct
<stefanlsd> ok. thanks :)
<kklimonda> tseliot: what is the status of bug 270846 for nvidia-glx-71 ? driver is still incompatible with intrepid?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270846 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-71 "build of nvidia kernel module fails" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270846
<tseliot> kklimonda: yes and (currently) Nvidia has no plans to add the support for new X.org releases to -71
<tseliot> let me add a comment to that bug report
<tseliot> done
<kklimonda> thanks
<robinp> is this package broken because of its dependencies: http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/kformula
<robinp> i.e. is it saying it needs koffice-libs (<< 1:1.6.4) AND koffice-libs (>= 1:1.6.3) ?
<joaopinto> koffice-libs version is 1:1.6.3-7ubuntu6
<joaopinto> assuming you are refering to jaunty
<joaopinto> it is installable
<directhex> plenty of things match koffice-libs (<< 1:1.6.4) AND koffice-libs (>= 1:1.6.3)
<directhex> like 1:1.6.3-7ubuntu6
<directhex> or 1:1.6.3-1panda2panda3panda4
<directhex> or 1:1.6.4~nowimbeingfacetious
<robinp> ok - i was just looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/koffice/+bug/383202
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383202 in koffice "Installing kformula results in complete removal of kubuntu-desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> what's with the branch linking? Something to do with DistributedDevelopment?
<Laney> motu-sru dudes: bug 387525
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387525 in do-plugins "Twitter plugin no longer receives updates, and all posts report failure despite success" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387525
<cody-somerville> Laney, acked
<Laney> cody-somerville: thanks
<Laney> oh yeah I should do a description, good catch
<ivoks> huats: hi
<ivoks> huats: in barcelona you said you'll send an email regarding motu mentoring process
<huats> hey ivoks !
<huats> yeah
<huats> I know...
<ivoks> :)
<huats> I am a bit on a rush
<huats> I'll send you that in the afternoon...
<ivoks> ok
<huats> I need to go I have an interview
<ivoks> go, go!
<dholbach> dyfet just asked me if somebody could have a look at the sipwitch package in revu
<ruairidh> Hey
<ruairidh> I'm wanting to join the MOTU team and have been checking out the dev documentation. Where do I go from here?
<Laney> Find something to do* and do it
<ruairidh> I take it that I find this on Launchpad?
<Laney> * this is not necessariliy easy, but we have various ways, such as harvest
<Laney> and the mentoring scheme
<xnox> Laney: =) I like your answer a lot
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO too
<Laney> a good place to start might be "bitesize" bugs on launchpad
 * Laney wonders what's on that list
<ruairidh> Cool, I'll check that out then
<Laney> oh, that's a nice link
<dholbach> I'll start with the revampation-of-doom of harvest in 2-3 weeks I hope :)
 * Laney cries at the list of haskell unmetdeps
<dholbach> help appreciated :)
<Laney> I feel bad not fixing them, but a new GHC release is coming very soon
<Laney> awkward situation
<gaspa> Laney: ah, really? have you idea, when?
<Laney> gaspa: couple of weeks according to simon marlow
<Laney> then $days for debian to package it
<gaspa> Laney: ok, good
<Laney> gaspa: will you be interested to help out with the rebuilds?
<Laney> I'll try and get a tracking page going - the OCaml team has a nice one that we might be able to nick
<gaspa> Laney: sure, I'm trying to learn a little of both caml and haskell,
<gaspa> so i'll be happy of working with their packages
<gaspa> ( with ocaml i've just started )
<Nrrd> stef
<Nrrd> (sorry, typo)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<gaspa> Laney: let me know about that.
<ruairidh> If I see something that needs packaging on Launchpad, I just assign it to myself right?
<joaopinto> ruairidh, IMHO unless you have some experience with packaging, creating a new package as an introduction to MOTU participation could be a bit overkilling
<ruairidh> Ah it's just I saw something on the "Needs-packaging" section on Launchpad and figured I'd do it
<debfx> is a package in main/universe allowed to suggest/recommend a package in multiverse?
<Laney> suggest yes, recommend no (I think)
<directhex> Laney, yup
<binarymutant> if anyone has the time to advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple I would be very appreciative =)
<debfx> ok, thanks
<pochu> stgraber, james_w: congrats!
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Anybody with ppc skills can have a look at Debian bug #528157? It's to know if we can safely sync librep or not. thanks!
<ubottu> Debian bug 528157 in librep "librep: Compilation option -with-stack-direction=-1 has been dropped from ppc" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/528157
<AnAnt> will tomboy & fspot still be installed in Ubuntu desktop by default ?
<Laney> yes, why?
<ximion> hi!
<ximion> Can someone please review my GeoGebra-package on REVU? I think I've fixed all locense issues now: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/geogebra
<AnAnt> got disconnected
<AnAnt> will tomboy & fspot still be installed in Ubuntu desktop by default ? or will they be replaced with non-Mono alternatives ?
<AnAnt> sorry, asked in wrong place (I think)
<fabrice_sp> ximion, as it seems no tarball is provided upstream, you should add a get-orig-source target in your rules file to rebuild the tarball
<fabrice_sp> so your watch file is not of any use
<fabrice_sp> (as the dirs file)
<binarymutant> if anyone has the time to advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple I would be very appreciative =)
<ximion> @fabrice_sp: The problem with GeoGebra is, that there are no usable sources distributed on the webpage... I'll fix this now. Thanks for looking at the package!
<fabrice_sp> ximion, how do you get the source? It seems upstream is not willing to give access to the source...
<fabrice_sp> http://www.geogebra.org/download/install.htm has a kind of installer
<dtchen> geser: for bug 384683, i can reproduce this FTBFS on every amd64 karmic install i've tried
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384683 in haskell-x11-xft "[karmic] FTBFS on no-change source rebuild" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384683
<ximion> @fabrice_sp: I extracted all necessary files from the installer. We had a discussion about the GeoGebra sourcecode at Launchpad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/108654
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 108654 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] geogebra" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<ximion> We had also license issues, because GeoGebra is licensed under GPLv2, but the documentation is not...
<ximion> (Because that it's important that the package is clean...)
<ximion> I can't write a get-orig-source rule to extract the *.jar file automatically, because the filenames and paths are changing with every new release in the InstallAnywhere file.
<fabrice_sp> ximion, I think you need to give a way to generate the tarball (but I'm not a MOTU)
<hyperair> hmm how does one get the output of g_message?
<hyperair> as in, get those messages dumped onto a terminal
<hyperair> is there some option i can set?
<hyperair> or some environment variable?
<fabrice_sp> ximion, you can't use the watch file to get the install file, and unzip it in the get-orig-source target?
<ximion> The installer archive contains a huge amout of mess that is only used for the installer itself. Also all files have different names in the installer .jar archive...
<ximion> Open http://www.geogebra.org/download/GeoGebra_3_2_0_1.jar in an archive manager to see... Oh, I see GeoGebra 3.2 is released.. Maybe the situation is now better?
<fabrice_sp> ximion, it's worth having a look, because at the actual state, it's difficult
<ximion> Another question: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/icontool is advocated, but there's no watch file present... So, is a debian/watch file really essential?
<fabrice_sp> let me check
<fabrice_sp> don't know: should ask to james_w
<fabrice_sp> anyway, the second motu that review that package could request to have a watch file
<fabrice_sp> a question to MOTUs: as per Bug #345208, the pythonmagick package is broken in Jaunty, so it's worth a SRU. I've checked and Debian has a newer version that we can sync for karmic (it builds, and run file in Karmic). How does the SRU fit with a different version in Karmic than the one we have to fix in Jaunty?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345208 in pythonmagick "Broken package" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345208
<fabrice_sp> (by the way, I think I know how to fix the package in Jaunty)
<dtchen> hyperair: G_DEBU
<dtchen> G_DEBUG, rather
<hyperair> dtchen: thanks, i'm looking at that, but what should i set it to exactly?
<POX> fabrice_sp: (pythonmagick) version in Debian also doesn't have this really nasty workaround
<hyperair> dtchen: i can't find anything (beyond overriding g_log in some .so in LD_PRELOAD) that'll help me do this without recompiling
<fabrice_sp> POX, that's because the package detects correctly the libs linked to python2.6
<ximion> @fabrice_sp: [geogebra] I think I can create a proper get-orig-source rule for geogebra... But I have to completely restructure the package. I'll do this, hopefully the result will have good quality.
<fabrice_sp> in the Jaunty's version, it's not the case, so we have to 'force' the libs
<fabrice_sp> POX,  ^, and we miss -lboost_python
<Laney> fabrice_sp: If it's fixed in Karmic, you can fix it in Jaunty in a different way if necessary afaik
<fabrice_sp> (I think)
<dtchen> hyperair: see "all" or "help"
<fabrice_sp> Laney, ok. I'll request the sync for Karmic, and fix the package in Jaunty in a different way then.
<fabrice_sp> thanks
<hyperair> dtchen: nothing for log level message
<hyperair> dtchen: only for warning and critical
<POX> fabrice_sp: version in ubuntu had CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/include/python2.5" in debian/rules (for *all* Python versions, sic!)
<POX> I know because someone tried to copy it in Debian
<fabrice_sp> POX, I've fixed it in Jaunty to put python2.6
<dtchen> hyperair: have you checked how GSt handles logging and debugging?
<hyperair> dtchen: no i haven't.
<fabrice_sp> Pici, Debian package works fine in Karmic :-)
<hyperair> dtchen: i'm poking around nautilus by the way
<fabrice_sp> Pici, not for you. Sorry
<fabrice_sp> POX,  ^
<POX> fabrice_sp: if you really need such nasty workarounds (instead of real fixes), at lest use `pyversions -d` output in the future ;-P
<fabrice_sp> POX, that's what I did after :-) I was quite 'young' in python packaging when I did that, and inherited the CPPFLAGS. So just changes python2.5 with python2.6 :-)
<fabrice_sp> Ive submitted some Debian bug using pyversions -d
<fabrice_sp> :-D
<POX> so I have time till Thurday to sync my packages... ScottK will not be happy ;)
<POX> fabrice_sp: the real fix is in debian/patches/01_autofoo_fixes.dpatch in case you want to backport it for Jaunty
<fabrice_sp> POX, cool. I was trying to apply a minimum (hack) fix, but I'll try first with the patch. thanks!
<fabrice_sp> POX, the patch is a LOT cleaner. I'll port the patch to Jaunty, to fix the package. Thanks again for the pointer ;-)
<huats_> Tonio_: around ?
<Tonio_> huats_: hey !!
<geser> dtchen: re bug 384683: I still can't reproduce it, not even through an upload to PPA (build successfully)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384683 in haskell-x11-xft "[karmic] FTBFS on no-change source rebuild" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384683
<dtchen> geser: ok, there's definitely a bug, then, because we're hitting some sort of nondeterminism
<dtchen> geser: if you want to push a no-change rebuild for haskell-x11-xft to help with the ghc6 migration, it would be greatly appreciated
<Laney> don't do too much for ghc6
<Laney> 6.10.4 coming soon
<dtchen> right
<dtchen> on the other hand, a whole mess of stuff is unmet, so i'm a bit up a creek as far as the window manager i use is concerned
<Laney> Oh, yes, feel free to fix things to get your stuff working
<Laney> just be aware that it will all break soon
<dtchen> shrug, not too different from any other software
<Laney> but after that I'll be fixing at warp speed
<geser> dtchen: no-change rebuild uploaded
<dtchen> geser: many thanks
<ebroder> Any sru folks who could look at bug #338464 now that the fix is in Karmic?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338464 in anjuta "Needs Conflicts: libgbf-1-2" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338464
<picklesworth> Hello! :) Quick packaging question: Does it matter what kind of values I throw into the XS-VCs-Bzr field in debian/control ? For example, could I put lp:my-branch-alias, or a path to the project's code section?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-17
<dannylo> Hi all
<dannylo> i'm trying to get a source from another distro
<dannylo> i added a new line to the sources.list, run an update..
<dannylo> and then used apt-get source package -t intrepid
<dannylo> but can't make it work,.. need to do anything more?
<directhex> dannylo, you added a deb-src line?
<dannylo> yep
<dannylo> i added: deb-src http://uy.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid main
<dannylo> i did it once, but can't make it work tonight :(
<directhex> dannylo, try passing the -t statement first
<directhex> i.e. apt-get -t intrepid source foo
<dannylo> nope... :(..  should i add the 'deb' line also?
<dannylo> yep, i added the deb line and worked.. didn't remember that
<binarymutant_> can someone try pbuilding http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , I was told it FTBFS but it is building fine for me  =/
<nellery> binarymutant_: maybe that was a problem on my part
 * maxb cowbuilds
<directhex> dannylo, did the source package name not match the name you were apt-get sourcing?
<nellery> perhaps my pbuilder is acting up
<dannylo> they match
<maxb> binarymutant_, nellery: build successful here
<binarymutant_> maxb, thanks :)
<nellery> hrm, what is pbuilder doing now
<nellery> sorry binarymutant_, I'll review and advocate if it's good
<binarymutant_> nellery, thank you :)
<binarymutant> if anyone has the time to advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple I would be very appreciative =)
<dholbach> good morning
<juanje> dholbach: grub2 morning :-P
<dholbach> juanje: I take it you're happy with grub2? :)
<juanje> dholbach: hehe... no really yet. I just tried in my old macbook with hardy and it was crashing. But now I got Guadalinexv6 (jaunty) and I'll give it another chance
<dholbach> juanje: good luck with that!
<juanje> dholbach: hehe Thanks :-)
<rawler> quick question; is it considered a bad practice to mark your own bugs in launchpad to "In Progress" if the problem is acknowleged upstream?
<rawler> (and fix available upstream)
<persia> rawler, -> #ubuntu-bugs, but most people don't do that.
<rawler> or should I wait for some dev to confirm and mark state?
<persia> Generally, just because upstream is fixing it isn't considered sufficient that it is being fixed in Ubuntu.  That said, if you want to track it, assign it to yourself, set in-progress, and mark it complete when the fix is applied.
<rawler> okies.. leaving it untouched, but myself on CC.. :)
<rawler> meanwhile, if someone have a couple of free minutes, I've got a package in dire need for sponsorship.. :) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tetzle
<dstansby> Hi guys :)
<dstansby> Just want to ask a quick question: I'm working on a bug that requires me to look at the code from a jaunty package, however I am running karmic. Is there anyway to get the jaunty source using apt-get?
<RAOF> Have the Jaunty deb-src lines in your sources.list (or sources.list.d), and apt-get source -t jaunty $SOURCEPACKAGE
<RAOF> Alternatively, work out what version of the source package Jaunty has, and ask for "apt-get source $SOURCEPAKCAGE=$THEVERSION"
<dstansby> RAOF: Thanks, I used the second method and it worked a treat
<dstansby> :D
<maxb> bah, he's left
 * maxb wanted to suggest pull-lp-source
<Hew> vorian, bug 387231, it builds for me and in my PPA, are you sure it FTBFS?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387231 in revelation "revelation 0.4.11-4ubuntu1 FTBFS" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387231
<gaspa> Hew: how can that diff fixes a ftbfs?
<gaspa> is that .py called by some test?
<Hew> gaspa, a Debian patch failed to apply on the .py file because it was previously modified by Ubuntu, and I forgot to revert the change.
<Hew> that debdiff reverts to the native version of the .py
<gaspa> ok ,I see.
<Hew> see the ubuntu1 revelation build log, and also the ubuntu2 that successfully builds in my PPA
<gaspa> just seeing.
<gaspa> Hew: anyway, attach the build log in the bug.
<Hew> for ubuntu1? ok, thanks for the advice.
<gaspa> no, for ubuntu2
<Hew> oh ok
<Hew> gaspa, once I do that, do you think I should resubscribe u-u-s?
<gaspa> Hew: I'd wait for an answer by vorian.
<Hew> ok I'll wait a bit more :-)
<huayra> I need review work on this when we are done packaging: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/iFolderPackaging
<huayra> both simias and ifolder are now running under Jaunty
<MetaMorfoziS> Hi all, i have dependency problems on jaunty, is i'm at the right place to ask about it?
<MetaMorfoziS> prob: http://pastebin.com/m32924a73  sources.list : http://pastebin.com/m6711ca15
<Hobbsee> #
<Hobbsee> ERROR: Module alias not properly enabled: /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/alias.load is a real file, not touching it
<Hobbsee> have you created that file in the past?
<Hobbsee> if not, remove it, and run sudo dpkg --configure -a
<MetaMorfoziS> yup, i have copied my old config before
<Hobbsee> MetaMorfoziS: looks like it's supposed to be a symlink or something, not a real file
<MetaMorfoziS> Ok, i try to mv /etc/apache2 /etc/apache_old
<MetaMorfoziS> it still cries
<MetaMorfoziS> http://pastebin.com/m66c612d0
<Hobbsee> MetaMorfoziS: no, don't ove the entie directory.  Just move the alias.load file.
<Hobbsee> move the directory back, ove the alias.load file, and ty again
<MetaMorfoziS> but why that solves the dependency problem?
<Hobbsee> (add m's and r's where appropriate, my keyboard is dying)
<MetaMorfoziS> :s
<Hobbsee> MetaMorfoziS: because it lets the package that the othe bits rely on to upgrade properly
<Hobbsee> so then they, in turn, can upgrade
<MetaMorfoziS> now i have removed apache2, moved /etc/apache, now try to install it again
<MetaMorfoziS> it must work, no?
<MetaMorfoziS> t
<Hobbsee> should do
<MetaMorfoziS> very intresting
<MetaMorfoziS> thank you, it worked
<MetaMorfoziS> :)
<Hobbsee> you're welcome
<Hobbsee> MetaMorfoziS: what you did was the equivalent of removing some of the stairs in a staircase, while someone was walking up them.  Then they went splat.
<Hobbsee> put the stairs back, they can get up the stairs fine
<MetaMorfoziS> :-)
<Hobbsee> oh, and adding a giant box, so people couldn't get past it
<MetaMorfoziS> yes, it asked about to overwrite the config in the modules
<Hobbsee> sounds about right
<MetaMorfoziS> and for first i said no then yes...
<Riddell> ping cody-somerville, jdong_: bug 382215
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 382215 in amule "Update aMule to 2.2.5 ASAP (security issue fixed)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/382215
<randomaction> All recent armel builds fail (last successful build ~15 hours ago); whats
<randomaction> the right place to report it?
<geser> does it fail for a common reason? or are the failures different?
<randomaction> there is a common reason, at least for packages using autotools
<randomaction> "configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables"
<RainCT> jpds: I've seen you've changed update-maintainer. Isn't the ML change decision for after Archive Reorganization?
<foolano> hi guys, is there anybody working on the asterisk merge?
<Laney> foolano: ask the last uploader
<Laney> ...I wonder if I have any merges to do
<Laney> yes, damn and blast
<foolano> Laney: weren't you the last uploader?
<foolano> i was checking https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<Laney> foolano: That just means I sponsored it
<Laney> I don't know what that comment means though - maybe it could be synced now?
<AnAnt> Hello, why does mutt build-depend on elinks instead of elinks-lite ?
<AnAnt> in ubuntu that is
<Laney> AnAnt: I don't know why we deviate from Debian there. Perhaps you could ask the person who made the change first?
<geser> AnAnt: I guess it's because elinks-lite was in universe till 2009-05-04
<AnAnt> oh
<Laney> why isn't 'links' (as Debian do) good enough?
<geser> I don't know the differences between links, links2 or elinks
<Laney> quite
<Laney> but presumably Debian would choose for the same reasons we would
<geser> and links is in universe
<Laney> unless it's to do with the server cd or something
<geser> so can't be used as a B-D for mutt
<Laney> that'll be it
<AnAnt> aha, so elinks-lite was in universe till karmic !
<jpds> RainCT: Might as well do it now. :)
<geser> AnAnt: any reason why you are asking?
<AnAnt> geser: elinks has a lot of deps, and I don't think that mutt needs all the bells & whistles of elinks to make its docs
<AnAnt> geser: probably elinks-lite is just fine for it
<geser> AnAnt: if you prepare a merge (there is a new mutt in unstable) and plan to change this, please think also to change the recommends from exim4 to default-mta
<AnAnt> geser: I am preparing indeed
<AnAnt> geser: ok, done
<Laney> does debian have default-mta?
<geser> IIRC exim4 provides it there
<AnAnt> no
<geser> I remember seeing a mail about it, will try to find it
 * Laney is all about small deltas
<geser> * exim4-daemon-light now Provides: default-mta. See #508644.
<Laney> excellent
<AnAnt> that's a virtual package
<AnAnt> can one recommand : virtual package | virtual package ?
<geser> I guess so
<AnAnt> I'm sure that this is not accepted neither in Depends nor Build-Deps
<Laney> why do you need to?
<AnAnt> Laney: why do I need to what ?
<Laney> have the alternate dep
<AnAnt> well, I don't think that I can Recommend a virtual package either
<geser> so it wouldn't try to install postfix if an other MTA is already installed
<AnAnt> I think it should be (at least that's how it is in Deps): real-package [|virtual package]
<Laney> :q
<Laney> oops
<AnAnt> so I think exim4 should be left as it is (or maybe changed to postfix)
<jpds> Laney: Usually the smiley is: :p
<geser> the whole idea behind it was that we don't have to change exim4 to postfix in every package
<Laney> you are supposed to recommend default-mta | mail-transport-agent
<Laney> only one thing provides the former afaik
<geser> AnAnt: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-June/028289.html
<mok0> Hmm, anyone else seen this compiler error:
<mok0>   /usr/lib/gcc/powerpc-linux-gnu/4.4.0/../../../../lib/crti.o: could not read symbols: File format not recognized
<Laney> geser: good find, that's what I thought
<geser> AnAnt: it mentions Depends there so I assume it's also good for Recommends
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> and how about Build-Depend on elinks-lite instead ? is that a good idea ?
<Laney> if it works
<Laney> you could suggest that to debian to
<Laney> o
<radix> is there a way to change the directory that debuild/dpkg-buildpackage puts files into? (I mean .dsc, .build, .deb etc)
<radix> e.g. if I want it to be ../debs instead of ../
<AnAnt> ok, who should I subscribe for mutt's merge request ?
<AnAnt> u-u-s ?
<Laney> it's in main isn't it
<Laney> ?
<AnAnt> oh, yes
<AnAnt> so, who should I subscribe ?
<AnAnt> ubuntu-main-sponsors
<AnAnt> done ! LP 388515
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 388515 in mutt "Candidate revision mutt_1.5.20-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388515
<AnAnt> isn't there a tool like requestsync for the merges ?
<Laney> please forward the changes for discussion
<AnAnt> Laney: huh ?
<Laney> to Debian
<AnAnt> Laney: what's the tool to forward ubuntu patch ?
<Laney> submittodebian, but you probably want to do it by hand
<Laney> as there are two separate changes
<AnAnt> is default-mta instead of exim a wishlist ?
<AnAnt> or normal ?
<geser> I'd file it as normal and assume the DD will change it if he sees it more as a wishlist
<AnAnt> how would i convince them to use elinks-lite instead of links ?
<geser> that's a good question, perhaps it's one of those ubuntu-specific changes we need to carry around
<Laney> It doesn't take them any time to say thanks but no thanks
<Laney> just say "we've made this change because of x and y, here's why it won't make life any worse than you. How about considering it? If not, no hard feelings"
<AnAnt> done !
<AnAnt> Laney: you can use submittodebian twice and edit the patches accordingly
<Laney> AnAnt: right
<binarymutant> if anyone has the time to revu http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple I would be very appreciative =)
<mok0> geser: are you on regina-normal?
<RainCT> fta: Hey. FYI, parallel installation of metacity and mutter should be possible soon :). Several patches related to this have been landing those days
<yofel> hey guys, could somebody tell me who I could ask for help on the state of bug 280188 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280188 in zenity "libgtkada2-bin : trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/gdialog', which is also in package zenity" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280188
<yofel> the 'fix' makes the package unusable
<yofel> *the libgtkada2-bin package
<yofel> since uninstalling zenity is short to impossible
<directhex> hm
 * directhex finishes comparing gnote 0.5.0 to tomboy 0.14.0
<binarymutant> if anyone has the time to revu http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple I would be very appreciative =)
<fabrice_sp_> Hi. What should be the status of a SRU bug? Confirmed or New?
<fabrice_sp_> it's for Bug #345208
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345208 in pythonmagick "[SRU]PythonMagick is not usable because of missing functions" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345208
<vorian> hew, still about?
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/+bug/383307
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383307 in audacious-plugins "Please merge audacious-plugins 2.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<dupondje> why is it taking weeks to get accepted :(
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-18
<hggdh> folks, there is a binary package called timeout, and it seems the source points to tct, a completely different package. What to do?
<hggdh> !info timeout
<ubottu> timeout (source: tct): run a command with a time limit. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.18-2 (jaunty), package size 23 kB, installed size 84 kB
<hggdh> TCT is The Coroner's Toolkit, has nothing to do with timeout
<hggdh> bah, forget
<AnAnt> Hello, I have filed a merge request for mutt, also I have submitted the changes to Debian, and the maintainer accepted them and said that they will be in the next debian release of the package
<AnAnt> so, should the debian bugs be attached to the merge request bug ?
<AnAnt> or what ?
<nhandler> AnAnt: I normally add a bug watch in the merge request bug
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> but there are two bugs on Debian
<AnAnt> since there are two changes now
<ScottK> It's not critical about linking bugs for a merge.
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<nhandler> Very true. I like to do it mainly to make it easier for me to see what patches got forwarded upstream for a merge
<ScottK> Personally I think it's pretty pointless and I wouldn't worry about it.
<nhandler> It is just something for organizational purposes
<AnAnt> ok, thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<nellery> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey nellery!
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch!
<nellery> should new packages be uploaded the same as packages already in the archive?
<dstansby> Hi guys, just wondering if anyone can help me with a slight problem I'm having
<dstansby> I get this error message when trying to 'apt-get source' anything:
<dstansby> Can't locate Dpkg/Vendor.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.0 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/local/bin/dpkg-source line 21.
<dstansby> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/local/bin/dpkg-source line 21.
<dstansby> Unpack command 'dpkg-source -x qemu-launcher_1.7.4-1.dsc' failed.
<soren> Yikes.
<soren> Which version of Ubuntu are you running?
<dstansby> 9.10
<dstansby> It might be something to do with me patching and installing my own version of dpkg the other day, but I only made changes to .po files.
<dstansby> Actually come to think of it, I might have accidentally installed the latest git release from debian :S
<soren> You think? :)
<dstansby> Yes
<dstansby> How would I replace it with the latest ubuntu release?
<soren> "sudo apt-get install dpkg/karmic" and hope for the best.
<dstansby> Hmm, Selected version 1.14.24ubuntu2 (Ubuntu:9.10/karmic) for dpkg
<dstansby> dpkg is already the newest version.
<soren> `which dpkg`?
<dstansby> What do you mean by which dpkg?
<soren> Run the command: which dpkg
<soren> And tell me what it says.
<dstansby> /usr/local/bin/dpkg
<soren> You're on your own :)
<dstansby> Why, what have I done?
<soren> You've installed a random version of dpkg in /usr/local.
<dstansby> Where should it be installed?
<soren> Heh..
<soren> This is going to sound rude, but it really isn't meant to:
<soren> If you don't know the answer to that question, you shouldn't be installing it *at all*.
<dstansby> I've heard that kind of phrase several times in the forums
<soren> Why were you installing dpkg from git in the first place?
<dstansby> Because I was patching it for debian
<dstansby> I downloaded it, changed some files and then foolishly and accidentally installed it
<soren> Well.. Uninstall it somehow.
<soren> Until you do, your (apparantly) broken version is likely to be causing you grief.
<dstansby> I presume I'm going to have to chroot from another install/liveCD then
<soren> Or change your PATH or use the correct dpkg explicitly (with full path).
<dstansby> So where should the correct dpkg be installed to?
<soren> I'm getting increasingly curious.. What exactly were you patching in dpkg?
<dstansby> I was just correcting a grammatical error.
<soren> Ah.
<dstansby> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=533171 If you're interested
<ubottu> Debian bug 533171 in dpkg "Grammar mistake in dpkg" [Minor,Open]
<soren> The "real" dpkg is in /usr/bin/dpkg
<soren> ..but I'm not sure what you need that information for.
<ajmitch> taking an axe to /usr/local could be fun
<soren> sudo mv /usr/local /usr/local.oh.dear.I.shouldnt.have.done.that
<soren> ftw
<dstansby> At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, would moving the dpkg files from /usr/bin to /usr/local/bin (thus replacing my broken ones) help at all?
<soren> Yes, but I really, really recommend removing the one in /usr/local instead.
<soren> Otherwise, dpkg updates will not take effect on your system.
<soren> ...because most people have /usr/local before /usr in their $PATH.
<soren> Wel... /usr/local/bin, and /usr/bin, obviously.
<soren> If dpkg is the only piece of software you've compiled and installed yourself, the above mentioned "sudo mv /usr/local /usr/local.oh.dear.I.shouldnt.have.done.that" would actually fix it for you.
<dstansby> soren: Thanks for helping me that fixed it. Sorry for my stupidity, but I'm learning all the time. And I am aware of the risks or fiddling with source and dev releases.
<soren> *Especially* dpkg. You can really get yourself into trouble messing with dpkg.
<dstansby> Now I know :) So am I right in thinking that in moving my version of dpkg to oh.dear. that ubuntu falls back onto the other version that is installed?
<soren> Yes.
<dstansby> Good, and thanks again for your help
<Stupendoussteve> Who is the person to contact to get a build added again when it was previously deleted?
<Stupendoussteve> Specifically bug 198724 which was marked as fixed but was not, because the previous version was deleted in Hardy and the fixed version was never built later on
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 198724 in partimage "[amd64] partimage not synced" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198724
<Hobbsee> that's a bit odd
<maxb> !?!??! How on earth is partimage being built in debian *despite* the fact that it is P-a-s-ed?
<Stupendoussteve> What is P-a-s, btw?
<Hobbsee> maxb: is it pas'd in ubuntu only, or both?
<Hobbsee> Stupendoussteve: package arch specific - it's a list
<Stupendoussteve> Ah
<Stupendoussteve> Well the old version was
<maxb> It still seems to be P-a-s-ed in debian git
<Stupendoussteve> The old, deleted version would segfault when you started it, only worked if you used a static 32 bit. 64 support has been present since 0.6.7
<Stupendoussteve> 0.6.6 I believe, actually
<Stupendoussteve> maxb: As it appears they have no problem with building binaries, is getting P-a-s removed from git something that needs a bug, and would this most likely result in the amd64 version being pulled into Ubuntu?
<maxb> Well, the procedure is approximately: (1) Figure out what on earth is going on with the current binaries in debian, (2) file a debian bug requesting P-a-s change, (3) ask cjwatson to pull changes and update ubuntu's, (4) it might then be necessary to ask cprov to run queue-builder if there isn't going to be another ubuntu upload soon
<Stupendoussteve> maxb: Where can I see their list of P-a-s packages?
<maxb> Well, oftc/#debian-devel can't seem to figure out how partimage/amd64 is present in debian either :-)
<Stupendoussteve> lol I see
<maxb> Stupendoussteve: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-December/027076.html
<maxb> ubuntu's version is here
<maxb> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/packages-arch-specific/ubuntu
<cjwatson> maxb: it's not getting autobuilt in Debian (see https://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=&pkg=partimage), so I assume somebody is building it by hand
 * cjwatson goes to update Ubuntu's P-a-s while he's thinking about it
<cjwatson> (done)
<cjwatson> Stupendoussteve: bugs on Debian P-a-s should go on the 'buildd.debian.org' pseudopackage, BTW
<joaopinto> kklimonda, ping
<Stupendoussteve> I'm double checking with the original reporters to see if they are able to use the one in Debian, then will file one
<binarymutant> I would appreciate a revu on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple if anyone has the time :)
<joaopinto> binarymutant, why pidgin-mbpurle an not piding-miicroblogging or something else that matchs the software purpose ?
<binarymutant> joaopinto, I wanted to stick with the upstream's name
<joaopinto> the tarball name is not upstream name
<joaopinto> you have a pidgin-microblog (.exe)
<joaopinto> and from "microblog-purple", the microblog word is the most meaninfull, specially if you already have "pidgin" on it
<joaopinto> meaningful
<joaopinto> IMHO :)
<binarymutant> the dev's refer to it as mbpurple though
<joaopinto> I alsoo see that there are fedora packages using pidgin-microblog
<binarymutant> joaopinto, see http://somsaks.blogspot.com/
<joaopinto> binarymutant, package names are not for developers, they are for users :)
<binarymutant> joaopinto, right but essentially that is like packaging apache as http-server (or something to that effect), would it not?
<binarymutant> who am I to change their name?
<joaopinto> ok ok :P
<juanje> anyone up to review this? -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mount-systray  ;-)
<juanje> or/and this -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/backintime :-P
<slytherin> binarymutant: can you please point to the upstream url of this software?
<binarymutant> slytherin, http://code.google.com/p/microblog-purple/
<slytherin> binarymutant: the upstream tarball is named mbpurple.
<slytherin> I gather it is supposed to work with any libpurple based client. If you name it pidgin-mbpurple, it sounds like it will only work with pidgin.
<binarymutant> I used the pidgin-* naming scheme as defined by the pidgin policy
<slytherin> binarymutant: where is the policy? Does it say you should also rename source package? And as I said what if the software if not pidgin specific but works with all libpurple based clients. Would you still keep pidgin in name?
<binarymutant> slytherin, I found it here http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/collab-maint/deb-maint/pidgin/trunk/debian/README.Debian.dev
<slytherin> binarymutant: IMHO, this is not a policy. It is just a guideline doc created pidgin package maintainers in Debian. Further, it does not say that you should rename source package. Source package and binary packages can have different names. And my question about if the package only works with pidgin, still stands.
<kklimonda> joaopinto: pong
<binarymutant> slytherin, what would you name it?
<slytherin> binarymutant: I would keep source package name same as upstream and make binary package name as close as possible to the binary (or .so) it creates.
<maxb> slytherin: Hi. On the matter of those non-ascii characters causing the libjaudiotagger-java FTBFS, turns out it's merely a case of the debian/build.xml failing to declare which character encoding the source files use, which is dangerous if they are non-ASCII. (Well, technically dangerous full stop, but it's a rare system which has a default character set which isn't a superset of ASCII)
<slytherin> maxb: I will report all our findings when I file a bug in Debian.
<geser> slytherin: any idea how we can bootstrap the build of maven-plugin-tools? (it build-depends on itself :( )
<slytherin> geser: nope. haven't looked at maven packages in long time. You should perhaps ask Debian maintainer.
<geser> ok
<geser> slytherin: perhaps I try the same trick as doko did with cup (uuencode the Debian deb and use it on the first "build")
<slytherin> geser: that is nice trick. If it works you will probably need to apply it to few more maven packages
<VK7HSE> I'm wondering if some kind ubuntu sponsor could please have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/me-tv/+bug/379706
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 379706 in me-tv "Me TV 0.9.3 into Karmic?" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<slytherin> VK7HSE: why is it marked fix commited?
<VK7HSE> slytherin: er.. cause I submitted a fix? i can revert if needed..
<slytherin> VK7HSE: submitted where? You just attached the diff.gz. What you should do is mark the bug confirmed (because you attached .diff.gz), assign it to nobody.
<slytherin> VK7HSE: also mark importance as wishlist.
<Hew> vorian, bug 387231
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387231 in revelation "revelation 0.4.11-4ubuntu1 FTBFS" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387231
 * vorian tries again
<Hew> thanks :-)
<VK7HSE> slytherin: Ok.. have made changes, unable to set to wishlist it won't allow me ???
<slytherin> VK7HSE: I will do that for you.
<VK7HSE> slytherin: Thanks...
<vorian> hew
<vorian> I get the same fail on both i386 and amd64
<Hew> vorian, it works for me locally and works in my PPA..
<vorian> http://paste.ubuntu.com/198516/
<Hew> thanks
<Hew> vorian, I'm not sure what's going on there, it looks like a problem with pbuilder dependencies? It doesn't look like the same problem that fails to apply the patch. I used debuild on the source and it was fine. Again, it's fine in the PPA. Any ideas?
<ttx> geser: for the xmlbeans package (which also depended on itself) I uploaded it to multiverse (and kept using the oldxmlbean.jar bundled in source)... then fixed it to build-depend on itself... then promoted it to universe.
<ttx> Not sure that would work for maven-plugin-tools though, since it's more than just a jar, I presume
<Hew> vorian, I'm not familiar with pbuilder. Is it possible it's a problem with pbuilder itself, rather than the sourcepackage/debdiff?
<geser> as I'm stuck at another build-dependency from that packages I seem to move it to the future :(
<ttx> geser: welcome to hell :)
<geser> the hell are the arch:all uploads in Debian :(
<Ampelbein> hew, vorian: revelation FTBFS because it depends on python-gdl, which in reverse depends on libgdl-1-0. when you look at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdl/ you see that the soname and thus package name has changed in gdl, so python-gdl (meaning the source package, gnome-python-extras) has to be rebuilt against the new gdl.
<Hew> Ampelbein, thanks for your help. So, this is a problem with gnome-python-extras, and not with the revelation itself?
<Ampelbein> Hew: from what i can tell: yes. gnome-python-extras does not build with the new gdl.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<NCommander> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi NCommander
<NCommander> bddebian, how goes it?
<bddebian> NCommander: Same old shite, you?
<NCommander> bddebian, I learned a painful lesson in data backup and recovery
<bddebian> Doh :(
<NCommander> Well, the irreplacables are safe
<NCommander> But its still a PITA rebuilding everything else
 * mok0 is puzzled: if we are still in auto-sync mode what are all those sync request s doing on the sponsor queue?
<soren> mok0: If Ubuntu specific patches can be dropped...
<mok0> soren: yeah but some of them are pure sync requests
<soren> mok0: Well, people are nuts.
<mok0> soren: I guess
<Laney> mok0: kill them please
<Laney> the queue is big enough as it is
<mok0> Laney: I will
<mok0> Laney: Queue is shorter now :-)
<Laney> mok0: good work \o
<mok0> Laney: of course we still have all those bogus entries at the top that we can't do anything about
<Laney> pfft, who cares about those main jokers?
<mok0> Laney: we ought to have an online session one day where we work in common to clean out that queue
<Laney> I think we could do with a few weekly "sponsorship days"
<Laney> much like revu days
<mok0> Laney: Indeed!
<mok0> Laney: it would be nice to discuss some of the entries, and what to do about them
<mok0> Laney: we can unsubscribe from the bugs "In Progress"
<Laney> mok0: Sometimes people forget to change the status though
<mok0> Laney: what about bug 319327 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319327 in guifications "Update pidgin_guifications to 2.16" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319327
<Laney> there's a diff there
<Laney> but he did change the status after he uploaded it, so a ping could be good
<vorian> some people don't know to 1) set bug to confirmed and 2) unassign themselves
<mok0> Laney: You're right
<vorian> actually, a lot of people
<al-maisan> Hello there, can somebody explain what the '-s' arg for dh_shlibdeps does? It's not explained in the man page..
<mok0> Laney: I'll ping him
<mok0> al-maisan: It restricts the action to arch -dep packages, look at man debhelper
<Laney> I notice this bug was set to "In Progress" after the patch was attached. Are you ready for it to be reviewed for spnosorship? Please set the bug to 'Confirmed' or 'Triaged' if so.
<al-maisan> mok0: thanks, will do.
<Laney> something like that
<mok0> Laney: oh, didn't see your sentence before the fact
<Laney> no worries
<dholbach> can somebody from motu-sru have a look at  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/netbook-remix-launcher/+bug/358641 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 358641 in netbook-launcher "Incorrect Translation in Spanish Network (ENG)->Red (SPA) Â¿?-> Rojo (red colour)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bin1010> howdy all, not sure which ubuntu IRC this should go on...
<bin1010> I have a package dependency problem....Luckily they are development libraries, so not so bad.  Apparrently when I installed kompozer-dev and later mozilla-dev I have libnss3-dev: Depends: libnspr4-dev but it is not installed, xulrunner-1.9-dev: Depends: libnspr4-dev but it is not installed....If I run apt-get -f install, it tries to install that package, but fails with dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libnspr4-dev_4.7.3-0u
<bin1010> k. tried sudo aptitude -f remove and sudo dpkg --configure -a and they don't seem to work either
<kb9vqf> Hey, would anyone be up for reviewing a few packages early? :)
<kb9vqf> Hey, would anyone be up for reviewing a few packages "early"? :)
<kb9vqf> It's for a rather old bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/27463
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 27463 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Fedora Directory Server for Ubuntu" [Wishlist,In progress]
<kb9vqf> The packages are: adminutil, fedora-directory-server, idm-console-framework, jss, ldapjdk, libapache2-mod-nss, libmozilla-ldap-perl, mozilla-ldap-sdk, and svrcore
<RainCT> can someone from backports please "won't fix" bug #286337 again?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286337 in hardy-backports "Please backport OpenSSH 5.1 to Hardy" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286337
<siretart`> RainCT: that would probably end in status ping-pong. please add a fitting comment first
<RainCT> siretart`: I'm on it
 * RainCT wonders why there are that many guys doing security audits who don't even know that distributions have something called "security updates" :P
<ScottK> RainCT: Check my comment first.
 * kees wonders the same thing
<ScottK> kees: It's pretty standard idiocy though.
<RainCT> ScottK: hah! nice comment :)
<kees> yeah
<ximion> Could someone (who has the time ;-)) please look at my Smile-package on REVU? ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/smile ) I's waiting there for ca. 5 moths and the last two months I only updated to new upstream releases without changig the package code.
<RainCT> ximion: Have you seen the Warning smile gives you (about the GPL)?
<RainCT> err, s/smile/REVU/
<ximion> Yes, I have. The whole project is licensed under GPL, but no license file is included in the original source.
<ximion> Every code file of the smile project has a valid header, containing a link to the GPLv2.
<ximion> So, I think there's no licensing problem.
<ScottK> ximion: You absolutely MUST include a full copy of the license.
<ximion> Is it okay if I include a copy of the GPLv2 in the debian directory?
<ximion> Or must I modify the original source.tar.gz file?
<ScottK> ximion: No.  You need to ask upstream to add it to their tarball (perferred) or alternately repack the orig.tar.gz yourself and document what you did.
<ximion> Do I need to use the get-orig-source rule, or can I simply include a copy directly to the orig.tar.gz? (I'll write an e-mail to the author, asking for adding the GPLv2)
<ScottK> Since it should be a one time thing, I think as long as you document what you did and why (IIRC debian/copyright is the place to do it, but it's been a while since I needed to know that) doing it manually should be fine.
<RainCT> ximion: btw, I've given the package a quick review; see my comment on REVU
<RainCT> ScottK: you've got an answer on bug #286337 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286337 in hardy-backports "Please backport OpenSSH 5.1 to Hardy" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286337
<ScottK> RainCT: I've subscribed to the bug now, so I should get any more responses in my inbox.  Thanks.
<ximion> @RainCT: The license is now upstream, so the problem doesn't exists anymore!
<kb9vqf> Would anyone care to give Fedora Directory Server a quick review?
<kb9vqf> The packages are: adminutil, fedora-directory-server, idm-console-framework, jss, ldapjdk, libapache2-mod-nss, libmozilla-ldap-perl, mozilla-ldap-sdk, and svrcore
<kb9vqf> :)
<ajmitch> it's not something that could ever be given a "quick review"
<kb9vqf> OK, sorry about that.  I am still new to this whole process, and just know that FDS has been requested for quite some time.
<kb9vqf> So there's probably not much hope of getting it into Karmic then?
<ajmitch> it's ok, it's just too big to be given a 5-minute lookever :)
<ajmitch> no there's still hope if there's someone with enough time
<ajmitch> & if you have time to fix up any problems that come up
<kb9vqf> Yeah, I should have the time to fix them--I just need to know what they are first ;-)
<ajmitch> first things are getting versioning right, at a glance
<ajmitch> packages new to ubuntu generally get a -0ubuntu1 debian version
<kb9vqf> OK
<kb9vqf> Anything else glaringly wrong?
<ajmitch> not that I can look into in a 30 second glace before I run to work :)
<ajmitch> especially when there's a mix of java & perl, each with their own packaging policies
<kb9vqf> OK :) I'll fix that and reupload by tonight; maybe then someone will have time to look a bit deeper.  Thanks!
<ajmitch> things like +Depends: ${misc:Depends}, ${shlibs:Depends}, libnss3-1d, libsvrcore0, libmozldap-0d, libsnmp15, libicu38, libdb4.6, libdirsrv0 (= ${binary:Version}), adduser, libmozilla-ldap-perl
<ajmitch> all those should be picked up by ${shlibs:Depends}
<ajmitch> not all, but at least the lib*
<kb9vqf> OK, and I'll run that change through a build/install just to be sure all the dependecies still work
<ajmitch> was this getting put into debian?
<kb9vqf> ajmitch: I'm not a Deian developer, unfortunately
<kb9vqf> Debian
<kb9vqf> It would take some time before I could do that
<ajmitch> no, but I saw mention of someone else's name throughout a lot of that, who I wondered if you were working with
<ScottK> ajmitch: kb9vqf's perspective on what's easy is probably warped by the fact that he repackaged all of KDE3 for Jaunty.  After that it's all easy.
<kb9vqf> I took his initial (and apparently abandoned) packaging efforts, and fixed them up quite a bit to even get them to compile, as well as adding new packages for the missing Mozilla libs
<kb9vqf> ScottK: :-)
 * kb9vqf wonders what "easy" is...
<ajmitch> dh 7 debian/rules
 * ajmitch also had an (outdated now) set of FDS packages that were missing a reasonable amouunt of the useful stuff
<kb9vqf> ajmitch: Those were probably the old alien-converted RPMs, right?
<ajmitch> of course not
<kb9vqf> ??
<ajmitch> these were packages I was working on
<kb9vqf> Ahh...sorry about that...
<kb9vqf> The only thing I saw was the converted RPMs and the Debian attempt I worked off of
<kb9vqf> things
 * ajmitch had stopped with them after the need for trying out FDS at work sort of disappeared
<kb9vqf> I always thought FDS and Samba 4 would be a powerful system
<kb9vqf> Hence my interest ;-)
<ajmitch> yeah, I'd hoped to have the same
<ajmitch> though openldap picked up a number of the features which made FDS attractive at the time
<kb9vqf> The biggest one is multi-master support, though I can't remember if openldap now has that feature as well
<ajmitch> I believe it does
<ajmitch> been awhile now, I'd have to check :)
<kb9vqf> The other is that the FDS GUI is quite nice for everyday use ;-)
<ajmitch> assuming you like GUIs, sure :)
<ajmitch> when I was working on the packaging of it, only the core parts had been cut out & converted to an FHS-compliant layout
<ajmitch> so that's what I was focusing on
<kb9vqf> BTW it looks like they added multimaster to openldap in 2008 or so, but it is still a bit buggy
<ajmitch> given my background with FDS packages, I probably ought to try & review what you've done when I find time
<kb9vqf> Sure, that'd be great!
<kb9vqf> You could poke me when you do have time...
<ajmitch> I'll try & find time for it in the weekend, must run off to work now
<kb9vqf> OK; thanks for the help so far!
<pingswept> I've written a Python library that I'd like to make easily installable on (at least) Ubuntu, but I'm confused by the different options for Python packaging.
<pingswept> Do I want a deb? Or an egg? or is setuptools falling out of favor?
<pingswept> Or am I asking in the wrong place?
<ScottK> pingswept: For Ubuntu you want a debian package.
<pingswept> ScottK: Thanks. I'll ask Google for the details.
<ajmitch> kb9vqf: quick question, where did you find the initial packaging you started from?
<Laney> geser: you here?
<Laney> geser: I think the lp api wrapper has broken requestsync(!)
<Laney> http://paste2.org/p/271612
<geser> Laney: yes, I'm here and already encountered this problem today myself
<geser> give me a minute to commit my changes
<Laney> cool
<geser> Laney: with the two changes I just pushed to trunk you should be able to use requestsync again (at least I was)
<Laney> geser: let me try
<ScottK> You didn't take away the submit by email option did you?
<Laney> bug 389215
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389215 in avahi-sharp "Sync avahi-sharp 0.6.19-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389215
<soren> ScottK: Why do you prefer e-mail over lp's api?
<Laney> ScottK: No, that's still there and is still the default
<Laney> geser: works, thanks
<soren> ScottK: I'm just curious.
<ScottK> soren: It just works and isn't tied to how fast or slow LP is that day.
<ScottK> Laney: Great.
<soren> ScottK: "just works" is a bit of an exaggeration, IMO.
<soren> ScottK: It depends on a working MTA, doesn't it?
<ScottK> soren: In my experience it's been pretty good.
<Laney> what do you think to making LP the default?
<ScottK> soren: I generally have one of those, so that's not a problem for me.
<soren> ScottK: When it comes to working MTA's, you're hardly the average user :)
<geser> ScottK: it was just an small error in the LP API code path that I introduced in my recent commits
<ScottK> The LP one may be better for most people, but for me I like the email version.
<ScottK> soren: certainly.
<Laney> we should probably resolve that manage-credentials bug before switching the default
<jacob> gtksourcecompletion has a bunch of outdated copyright headers in source, but they are all of the LGPL [version] *or later* type. the overall project is LGPL3+. I've filed an upstream task, but in the event that this doesn't get fixed, is this technically still packagable?
<jacob> here's licensecheck and the bug for context: http://is.gd/15CvI
<kb9vqf> ajmitch: http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianFDSPackaging
<kb9vqf> ajmitch: There's not much there to go on, and quite a few items didn't work ( the FDS startup scripts, admin console, etc.)
<kb9vqf> But it was a good start ;-)
<ajmitch> right, because I saw that the previous packager that you said was inactive was posting on the listrrecently
<kb9vqf> ajmitch: Well, maybe I was wrong...I just hadn't seen much progress when I pulled the packaging a couple of months ago.  I can be quite impatient at times! :-)
<directhex> pfft. men! too impulsive
 * kb9vqf forgot to mention the dead giveaway of inactivity...the version numbers on that Wiki page
<kb9vqf> We're on 1.2.0 now! :)
<ajmitch> because there's a big rename in progress
<ajmitch> it's no longer fedora directory server
<kb9vqf> Yeah, but it hasn't reached a release yet
<kb9vqf> That is, the current release branding is still 1.2.0
<kb9vqf> That is, the current release branding is still FDS
<ajmitch> so it's probably better not to get packages in which will need a major renaming just yet
<ajmitch> depends on how long it takes them to rename
<kb9vqf> Ahh...what if I changed the naming to 389-directory-server in the packaging, even though the program branding is still FDS?  Would that suffice or maybe it's just too unstable for inclusion?
<ajmitch> suggestion there is to coordinate on the debian mailing list & work in SVN there
<kb9vqf> Well, maybe I'll leave it in the PPA for now; the Debian approval process looks very lengthy and I probably won't be able to help for a while.
<kb9vqf> That is, Debian developer approval
<kb9vqf> Should I just leave the packages on REVU or should I delete them?
<directhex> the problem being you need re-approval when things get renamed
<kb9vqf> I would try renaming everything now, at 1.2.0, but I don't know if that's a big no-no
<ajmitch> you don't need to be a debian developer to work on them in debian
<kb9vqf> I thought SVN access was restricted to Debian developers, no?
<ajmitch> no
<kb9vqf> Ahh
 * kb9vqf looks over at Debian policies again
<ajmitch> it's restricted to team members for the project, and you can join the team on alioth.debian.org
<ajmitch> this is separate from usual debian policies, though it's a service provided by them
<kb9vqf> that explains it
<kb9vqf> I guess I'll create the upstream (Debian) bug report again as well
<kb9vqf> Thanks for the education!
<mrooney> anyone willing to mentor me on creating a ppa of a nautilus branch? I've got the branch running on my machine, I'm just not sure how to combine that branch with the current nautilus packaging
<ajmitch> kb9vqf: reopen it
<ajmitch> if there's not an ITP bug open
<kb9vqf> all those bugs expired--I'll see if I have permissions to re-open or not
<ajmitch> anyone does
<kb9vqf> good
 * kb9vqf is completely unfamiliar with Debian's policies, etc.
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=386206 is that one I found
<ubottu> Debian bug 386206 in wnpp "ITP: fedora-directory-server -- An LDAP server designed to manage large" [Wishlist,Closed]
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-19
<dholbach> good morning
<directhex> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi directhex
 * hyperair pokes dholbach 
<hyperair> dholbach: remuco's in karmic? i don't see it =\
<dholbach> hyperair: you're right - sorry, I was mistaken
<hyperair> dholbach: do NEW packages get autosynced?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> until we're in DebianImportFreeze
<dholbach> which isn't until June 25th
<hyperair> ah i see
<hyperair> dholbach: do main and universe packages get synced at different frequencies?
<dholbach> no, I don't think
<hyperair> dholbach: nautilus-share which i got uploaded to debian a short while ago was after remuco-server, but it's been synced already.
<hyperair> 0.7.2-8.
<dholbach> maybe it was an explicit sync request
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> maybe it was
<hyperair> so how long does it take for a package to get synced usually?
<dholbach> hyperair: I don't know - best to ask in #ubuntu-devel
<hyperair> okay
<geser> hyperair: depends on when an archive-admin triggers the autosync
<hyperair> ah so it's not auto? O_o
<geser> no, only semi-automatic
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> well i'll just continue waiting then
<geser> I'm currently not sure if NEW package are included in the autosyncs or if importing them needs to get triggered seperately by an archive-admin
<geser> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#Syncs this doesn't happen automatic
<geser> hyperair: you could ask jdstrand to sync also NEW when he does the archive work today (it's his archive day today)
<hyperair> ah okay
<hyperair> nevermind, i'm in no hurry, as long as the package makes it in before debian import freeze =p
<hyperair> and featurefreeze
<maxb> Packages in Debian NEW *cannot* be synced, manually or otherwise
<maxb> Only after they've been accepted out of Debian NEW
<DktrKranz> there's no way to access them, OTOH
<maxb> OTOH?
<hyperair> maxb: er i meant just came out of NEW.
<hyperair> DktrKranz: it's remuco-server, which had been ACCEPTED some days ago
<maxb> Ah, "new" not "NEW" :-)
<hyperair> =p
<hyperair> right
<DktrKranz> hyperair: heh
<_ruben> heh .. "funny" version .. Unpacking mysql-client-5.0 (from .../mysql-client-5.0_5.1.30really5.0.75-0ubuntu10.2_i386.deb) ...
<geser> this is used when a version needs to go backwards (which isn't possible) and one want to avoid adding an epoch (which will need to stay forever)
<_ruben> so there was a "faulty" 5.1.30 upload at some time i guess? which does seem wrong for a 5.0 package indeed ;)
<geser> looking a the changelog it seems it was done because the mysql 5.1 packages provided a package which was also build from mysql-5.0 which broke things (or so)
<_ruben> nice :)
<LarstiQ> Hi, what do I have to do to get someone to pay attention to bug 342782 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 342782 in pyqwt5 "python-qwt5-qt4 will not install on Jaunty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/342782
<kklimonda> LarstiQ: if there is a patch attached subscribe motu-sru
<LarstiQ> kklimonda: there are, though not really correct, due to python2.5 vs python2.6 site-packages/dist-packages differences. Still subscribe?
<ScottK> LarstiQ: I think the 'hack' probably gives enough hints at the proper solution, so it's worth subscribing.
<ScottK> LarstiQ: The odds go way up if you can get it to work for Qt3/Qt4 on both Python versions.
 * ScottK worked on trying to figure that package out before release and didn't come up with a solution.
<LarstiQ> ScottK: aye, I'll try that if I have some time to burn, will subscribe first
<ScottK> LarstiQ: If you get it figured, ping me and I'll sponsor it.
<LarstiQ> ScottK: cool, I will if I do :)
<gaspa> dholbach(or any MC member): is it too late to sign for the next MC meeting?
<Laney> they say 7 days don't they?
<gaspa> Laney: yep
<Laney> doesn't it say when the next one is?
<gaspa> 25th, the next Thursday...
<gaspa> In fact I'm a bit late... that's why i'm asking.
<dholbach> gaspa: I personally have no objections
<gaspa> dholbach: ok, thanks.
<slayton> the diff.gz that gets generated during build is that only for the debian dir or can it contain patched sources as well?
<dholbach> slayton: the latter
<dholbach> if the packages uses a patch system already, it's good if you use that patch system for changes to the actual changes
<slayton> ok... but sources that are changed from upstream don't require patch files to be accepted?
<slayton> in revu
<dholbach> if you prefer working without a patch system that's fine
<Laney> is it?
<directhex> crap but permissible ;)
<dholbach> Laney: sure - we have a bunch of those in the archive
<dholbach> ask cjwatson for his opinion on patch systems :)
<Laney> we do, but I wonder if w...
 * Laney runs
<directhex> dholbach, ISTR i did!
<Laney> how did that end?
<ScottK> It's also quite invitable for pacakges that use DVCS.
<directhex> Laney, respectfully, of course!
<Laney> I think that we should encourage best practices for our new contributors
<Laney> what that means depends on who you talk to
<Laney> and circumstances of course (DVCS being one)
<dholbach> whenever I have to use quilt, I'd prefer straight patches to the source :)
<directhex> straight patches to the source are easy.
<directhex> until they stop applying, then they suck
<Laney> having had to detangle a mess of diff.gz patches, they aren't fun
<directhex> patch systems are useful because they have an "off" switch, more than anything else
<dholbach> in any case I wouldn't want to overrule a package maintainer for no good reason
<dholbach> if it makes your job easier, do whatever you like, but I don't see a lot of use in setting up a policy for it
<directhex> no, of course, keep the maintainer's decisions
<directhex> and if it's the first patch, check whether the package conforms to some kind of group policy - i.e. add a patch system if the package follows a policy which mandates one
<Laney> so if you're sponsoring a new package, should you question it?
<mok0> Laney: thank god for splitdiff
<mok0> sebner: are u gonna merge flightgear?
<sebner> mok0: wll, if you want to do it you are free to take it as I have 3 more weeks of military service todo with hardly any time
<mok0> sebner: no time for flight simulator, huh?
<mok0> sebner: ok, I'll take care of it
<sebner> mok0: heh, you don't need if you don't want to. It's just that I'm not really sure if I have enough time for it this weekend or the next one
<mok0> sebner: I doing at least one merge a day, so I was looking for one :-)
<mok0> sebner: most are reserved
<kb9vqf> ajmitch: Looks like I won't be able to deal with FDS after all....my main server cluster was just taken out by the severe storms this morning.
<kb9vqf> ajmitch: Lightning struck within 30 feet and the EMP fried my systems. :-(
 * kb9vqf is on his laptop for now
<kb9vqf> Sorry! :-(
<sebner> mok0: heh, fine then. I'm also happy to have a new version and when I have more time in future I'm going to play flightgear a lot :D
<stefanlsd> mok0: i was looking at putting together a system where last contributors get notified of a new merge (sometimes you dont even know!) and then a way to say, feel free for someone else to take it...
<mok0> stefanlsd: nice... in principle though, all merges are "free" since we have joint maintainership.
<mok0> There have been complaints that the "last-merger-ping-required" policy has slowed down merging
<stefanlsd> mok0: yeah, although we like to defer to the last uploader as they may have some specific knowledge.. also, I guess people trying to trying to show contributions dont enjoy other people doing there merges...
<mok0> stefanlsd: at this point though, the merges have been sitting there since the archive opened a month and a half ago
<stefanlsd> mok0: i think it has slowed merges alot! also some of the last mergers are not around anymore...
<mok0> stefanlsd: right
<stefanlsd> mok0: my thinking is that the last merger would get notified. if he doesnt do the merge or object to anyone doing it, or say its free - in a certain time period, it would move to a feel free to merge
<mok0> stefanlsd: ... is that something you would implement of top of MoM?
<stefanlsd> mok0: its just thoughts at the moment. not sure where exactly where its gonna go (ideas welcome!0
<mok0> stefanlsd: kk... I think it would fit nicely there
<stefanlsd> mok0: kk. thanks. i will look into it there...
<carthik> Is there a guide somewhere on how to take a debian sid package, change a few dependencies and build a package for Ubuntu (jaunty)?
<slayton> is there a cdbs variable that can be used to determine which version of GCC is used?
<azeem> slayton: "CC"
<slayton> azeem, ty
<c_korn> when will the next daily build be available?
<RainCT> omg can't we just set up a filter on the ML which rejects any mail containing the word "mono"? :P
<slayton> RainCT, what if there is an outbreak of disease?
<directhex> RainCT_, a new flame war? yays :|
<directhex> oh, someone trying to push the gnote suggestion on pure "zomg" grounds
<RainCT_> directhex: Yeah, I'm starting to get annoyed of such mails.. A few more of them and I'll switch from "anti- but I don't really care" to "pro-mono" ;)
<directhex> RainCT_, these folks don't seem to understand the harm they do to their argument by acting like f... in a tiresome manner.
<CarlFK> somone in some #chan (I think here) pointed me to some site that would search PPAs... anyone know what I am talking about?
<CarlFK> or... anyone know where I can find dia-trunk.deb
<CarlFK> the version in jaunty has huge issues exporting svg, want to try trunk before I go wining about it
<kb9vqf> CarlFK: This link should work: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
<kb9vqf> CarlFK: Or there's this (unofficial
<kb9vqf> page: http://ppa-search.appspot.com/
<CarlFK> bingo.  lets delicious it this time...
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-20
<LCID_Fire> Hi. Could anyone tell me why git-buildpackage does not produce a orig.tar.gz?
<stefanlsd> Im not unable to subscribe u-u-s. Anyone else having that issue?
<Hobbsee> directhex: just filter that guy out.  That'll save you a lot more headaches.
<Hobbsee> (but yeah.  agh, not again)
<AnAnt> Hello
<quentusrex> is it possible to build binary packages for hardy, intrepid and jaunty? easily?
<quentusrex> I have a source package that builds for each one, but so far I have had to copy it to 3 different machines to build the binary.
<ScottK> This is pretty easy to do with pbuilder.
<LCID_Fire> Could someone answer the following question - I have the sourcecode of an application without any build files - for the debian package I added autotools build to the app. Now when I generate the source package (and orig.tar.gz), what should it contain: 1. the original application sourcecode 2. the full debianized sourcecode
<LCID_Fire> )
<LCID_Fire> ?
<lifeless> a) you shouldn't be generating the orig.tar.gz; that should come from the upstream.
<lifeless> b) the diff, naturally, should contain all changes you have made, in some form.
<LCID_Fire> I have a git branch where the original sourcecode resides - and another one where the changes are done - but it just can't get the source package to be generated
<Laney> LCID_Fire: are you the upstream developer?
<LCID_Fire> Laney: nope - I'm the idiot who tried to build a debian package
<Laney> ok so you shouldn't modify their releases
<LCID_Fire> Laney: clarify "modify their releases"
<Laney> the unmodified upstream source should be in the orig
<Laney> and your changes in the diff
<LCID_Fire> that's pretty much how the branches are setup in my git repo - but git-buildpackage keeps screwing it...
<Laney> you should have a master and an upstream branch
<Laney> upstream is just the unpacked tarball
<Laney> and master is that + debian/ + your changes
<Laney> master is merged from upstream
<LCID_Fire> yep - it seems to me like git-buildpackage does not now what to use as orig source
<Laney> maybe you need pristine-tar too?
<Laney> hyperair knows more about this than me, he can probably help better
<LCID_Fire> ?
<LCID_Fire> hyperair always helps :)
<lifeless> LCID_Fire: this has _nothing to do with branches_
<Laney> he is the master of git
<lifeless> LCID_Fire: the upstream *tarball* is what matters.
<lifeless> LCID_Fire: as for git specific stuff, I can't help sorry.
<LCID_Fire> lifeless: the tarball does not matter if you build from scm
<lifeless> LCID_Fire: for debian and ubuntu packages, it does.
<Laney> LCID_Fire: paste the output of git-buildpackage -S
<Laney> Orig tarball 'agda_2.2.2.orig.tar.gz' not found at '../tarballs/'
<Laney> pristine-tar: successfully generated /home/laney/dev/debian/packaging/build-area/agda_2.2.2.orig.tar.gz
<Laney> that's what happens with one of my git packages
<LCID_Fire> lifeless: the point is that orig.tar.gz is to be GENERATED out of git - but it isn't :(
<Laney> where did the upstream sources come from in the first place?
<lifeless> LCID_Fire: if you're not using pristine_tar, it cannot be created from git.
<stefanlsd> Im not unable to subscribe u-u-s. Anyone else having that issue?
<Laney> is there a release at all?
<lifeless> LCID_Fire: or any other VCS
<LCID_Fire> Laney: sourceforge - http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=171505
<LCID_Fire> lifeless: I don't even know what pristine_tar is
<lifeless> LCID_Fire: then just download the original tarball, name it correctly, and away you go.
<LCID_Fire> lifeless: it's zip ;)
<lifeless> LCID_Fire: ugh. Well you'll need to repack it, but do that once.
<Laney> uscan can do this with --repack (I think for .zip)
<LCID_Fire> lifeless: but to maintain it - I need it to be generated - I'm not in the mood to manually create the orig.tar.gz every time there is a release
<Laney> LCID_Fire: please stop that huge paste if you can
<Laney> :(((
<LCID_Fire> Laney: done
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> pastebin would be easier to read
<LCID_Fire> Laney: on my xchat it's pretty good to read
<lifeless> LCID_Fire: then don't maintain this package, or get upstream to start generating tarballs.
<Laney> so, what you want to write is a watch file
<Laney> and then a get-orig-source file which calls uscan --repack
<lifeless> *someone* somewhere has to put the orig source into a tarball for ubuntu packages.
<LCID_Fire> lifeless: that's the point of git-buildpackage - it SHOULD do the work (at least it is advertised)
<Laney> no
<LCID_Fire> Laney: I have no idea what you are talking about, sorry
<lifeless> LCID_Fire: thats not the point of git-buildpackage
<Laney> LCID_Fire: then you should find out
<LCID_Fire> yes it is: please read "man git-buildpackage"
<lifeless> LCID_Fire: its point, like that of svn-buildpackage, bzr-buildpackage etc etc is to allow better granularity in maintaining the delta that makes up the packaging data & bugfixes that are needed to package the software
<LCID_Fire> lifeless: you're right - but the manpage also says: "Build an orig.tar.gz if it doesn't exist."
<lifeless> pristine-tar does allow putting *an existing* orig.tar.gz into a VCS and reconstructing it later.
<LCID_Fire> lifeless: I did this with git-import-orig
<Laney> actually gbp does let you do this without pristine-tar, but it isn't idempotetnt
<Laney> agda_2.2.2.orig.tar.gz does not exist, creating from 'upstream/2.2.2'
<lifeless> right, which makes it unsuitable for collaborative maintenance
<LCID_Fire> for whatever reason this does not work for me
<LCID_Fire> lifeless: why?
<lifeless> because SHA1
<LCID_Fire> shouldn't it work when everyone is using git?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> as Laney says its not idempotent
<Laney> he means it generates a different tarball each time it's run
<Laney> this is the problem that pristine-tar fixes
<lifeless> besides which, many people use other VCS's than git
<hyperair> Laney: LCID_Fire you called?
<Laney> it's alright
<Laney> but, good morning!
<LCID_Fire> hi
<LCID_Fire> so the way gbp works is actually a bug?
<LCID_Fire> btw: just found http://juliank.wordpress.com/2008/02/04/experiences-with-git-and-pristine-tar/
<Laney> this is pretty much what we said
<LCID_Fire> the interesting thing is - the patch was submitted - but pristine is not a dependency of git-buildpackage...
<Laney> it's only optional
<LCID_Fire> I still don't get why it isn't generating orig.tar.gz
<Laney> if you pasted the output that I asked for we could take a look
<Laney> to a pastebin(!)
<LCID_Fire> np - you just have to wait till I google pastebin
<Laney> www.pastebin.com
<LCID_Fire> interesting - it's on http://pastebin.com/d4617b699
<Laney> this isn't the whole output
<LCID_Fire> it is the output of "git-buildpackage -S -sa --git-pristine-tar > ../build.txt"
<Laney> remove those other options
<LCID_Fire> so just using -S?
<Laney> you're telling it explicitly to use git-pristine-tar there
<Laney> ep
<Laney> yep
<LCID_Fire> ok
<LCID_Fire> updated: http://pastebin.com/d1848a594
<Laney> oh
<Laney> you've made a native package
<Laney> you need to make the version 7.1.2-0ubuntu1
<LCID_Fire> how do these last 2 statements link?
<Laney> http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/debian-mentors_FAQ.html
<Laney> check the FAQ about native packages
<LCID_Fire> and why isn't it telling me this conclusion when I'm building?
<Laney> because it doesn't know that this isn't what you want
<LCID_Fire> but it should at least tell me what it does and what it thinks that I want
<Laney> #
<Laney> dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload: Debian-native package
<LCID_Fire> Laney: this line is as good as saying nothing - it just helps if you already know what you have to do - which is what debian packaging seems to be aimed at
<Laney> right, these are tools for developers to use in their daily work
<Laney> documentation and help forums such as this are for learning how they work
<LCID_Fire> In former times I wondered why so much software is not packaged for debian - now I know
<Laney> it's really not bad if you read some documentation
<LCID_Fire> I read a LOT - but you can't read everything there is to packaging - they hardly make a clear point
<Laney> complaining to me isn't going to help anything
<Laney> you have this place to ask specific questions
<Laney> and then you can help to improve the documentation
<LCID_Fire> I know - but I have to get all the anger out of my system ;)
<LCID_Fire> besides I'm now stuck with "dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source" (seems to be related to autotools) - I'm getting further in babysteps
<LCID_Fire> but for now - thanks a lot - would have never figured these things out without you guys
<dupondje> Hello, I'm working on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+milestone/round-1
<dupondje> I fixed a bug now, but how & where do I upload it ?
<RainCT> dupondje: which bug is it?
<dupondje> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/57210
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 57210 in nautilus "Search button does not toggle search field" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<RainCT> dupondje: In this case it'd be best to get the fix directly into GNOME.
<dupondje> RainCT: but isn't it to late then to get it into Karmic ?
<RainCT> dupondje: but it seems like someone has already provided a patch there
<dupondje> yea, not working + outdated
<RainCT> dupondje: No, not if it gets into GNOME in time. Karmic will ship with the next GNOME release.
<dupondje> ok
<masterkernel> hello
<masterkernel> how do I request that a program be packaged?
<hyperair> masterkernel.. you the one packaging kernelcheck?
<masterkernel> yes
<hyperair> anyway you file a needs-packaging bug in ubuntu
<masterkernel> the problem is that I want to remain anonymous
<hyperair> yes, i noticed.
<hyperair> you could use a false alias ;)
<hyperair> a real sounding false alias
<masterkernel> John Smith
<hyperair> heheh
<hyperair> don't quote me on that
<masterkernel> i wont
<hyperair> some people will grill me i'm sure
<hyperair> the channel's logged anyway, so whoops =p
<Nafallo> and keep lurkers ;-)
<masterkernel> i attempted to try to get other people to do it for me but no one's picked it up thus far
<masterkernel> *package it
<nhandler> RainCT: I just saw your pull-revu-source request. I have been thinking about that for a while. Instead of allowing users to pull from different versions of Ubuntu/Debian, they could pull different uploads of that package by specifying a date/upload id
<hyperair> masterkernel: poke around in #ubuntu-kernel, maybe someone will be interested enough.
<masterkernel> good call
<hyperair> =)
<hyperair> i'm past my kernel compiling days, or so i'd like to say
<hyperair> because the kernel just works for me, and my notebook overheats and shuts down if i compile something that big
<hyperair> otherwise i'd package it
<hyperair> i think it's a good idea to get it into debian and let it get synced into ubuntu though
<hyperair> that way more people benefit from the package
 * hyperair pokes masterkernel 
<masterkernel> I would ask the co-author to do it but i don'
<ivoks> what's kernelcheck?
<masterkernel> t think he knows much about packaging
<masterkernel> http://kcheck.sourceforge.net/
<ivoks> yeah, i'm looking at the page
<ivoks> ah... found it
<hyperair> i think it's something that downloads the up to date kernel sources
<hyperair> and compiles it
<hyperair> after applying the ubuntu patch
<hyperair> basically a GUI for it
<masterkernel> I should update the description on the homepage -- not very informative
<ivoks> urgh...
<hyperair> hmm come to think of it, there was someone who posted those awesome guides on ubuntuforums by the name Master Kernel. is that you?
<masterkernel> yeah
<ivoks> masterkernel: it's not easy to find, actually :)
<hyperair> masterkernel: how come you didn't just call the project kernelcheck?
<hyperair> masterkernel: like kernelcheck.sf.net instead of kcheck
<ivoks> so, it breaks all tools that dpends on specific version of modules?
<masterkernel> I'm not really sure
<masterkernel> that would be logical
<RainCT> nhandler: I don't use those tools so I have no comment on that (the request was from porthose, I only marked ubuntu-dev-tools as affected because he filed it against REVU).
<masterkernel> ivoks: ?
<ivoks> masterkernel: there are tools in linux distributions that depend on specific versions of modules
<hyperair> what tools?
<ivoks> i'm just trying to figure out what this kernelcheck actually is :)
<ivoks> drbd, kvm...
<ivoks> mostly kernel stuff
<ivoks> errr... server :)
<masterkernel> I haven't seen any breakages in my compilations - and with dkms they seem to compile right with every new kernel
<masterkernel> apart from nvidia/ait
<masterkernel> *ati
<ivoks> right, dkms would help
<dupondje> RainCT: I added patch to the Gnome bug, what should I do with the launchpad bug ?
<hyperair> doesn't nvidia use dkms too?
<ivoks> they do
<ivoks> and should work
<masterkernel> it's broken other than ubuntu-specific kernels
<masterkernel> problems with nvidia-common
<masterkernel> so I always have to use the binary package
 * RoAkSoAx says hello
<RainCT> dupondje: just leave a note saying that there's a patch in bugzilla
<dupondje> ok
<RainCT> dupondje: maybe you can get someone to look at it on #gnome-love (server irc.gnome.org)
<dupondje> done :D
<dupondje> thx
<masterkernel> ubuntu-kernel seems inactive
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, heya master how's it going
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> you?
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, tired :) just woke up xD
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, do you have little time to help me out with something?
<ivoks> sure
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, ok, I've worked with: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/passenger/+bug/382539 and I have some doubts on the lintian warnings that are listed there in the comment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 382539 in passenger "Please upgrade passenger from 2.0.3 to 2.2.2" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<ivoks> ok
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, the first warning is related to that ${misc:Depends} is not use. I was wondering. what is ${misc:Depends} used for, and if it's necessary in my case??
<maxb> It is used by miscellaneous components of debhelper to insert various boilerplate dependencies
<ivoks> sorry, wasn't here for a moment
<maxb> It simply means you need to include ${misc:Depends} in your package's Depends: line.
<ivoks> right, misc:Depends is needed so that package pulls some packages it needs
<ivoks> man debhelper
<maxb> It's pretty minor, only very few debhelper commands insert anything there
<ivoks>    Automatic generation of miscellaneous dependencies.
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: what comaptibility is that? (debian/compat)
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, 6
<ivoks> since 4, there should be ${misc:Depends}
<ivoks> just put it :D
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, oh i see. what about this warning: passenger source: maintainer-script-lacks-debhelper-token debian/postinst. Does that mean in debian/libapache2-mod-passenger.postinst Â¿? because if it's so, the token is there
<ivoks> #DEBHELPER#
<ivoks> you should have that at the end of the file
<ivoks> debian/postinst
<ivoks> and debian/prerm
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/200119/ ?
<ivoks> just at the end of the file
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, this changes should be in the changelog right?
<ivoks> all changes have to be in changelog - that's why it's called changelog
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, and what about the last warning. Should I bump Standards Version ?
<ivoks> sure
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, done. So, why is lintian still showing the warnings after the changes have been made?
<ivoks> the same warning?
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, i know what's worng. never mind... btw.. if in debian contrl i have a package-doc whicuh install the documentation. should it also have the Depends?? it should right?
<RoAkSoAx> I mean, it shouldn't since it's just documentation
<directhex> popey, didn't you know "doing something I didn't ask for" is the same thing as "ticking a box in a dialog box to explicitly do something"?
<maxb> NB you only bump Standards-Version because the package isn't in Debian at all
<popey> directhex: :)
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: does it depend on anything?
<directhex> popey, i like how a Certain Blog is accusing keybuk of orchestrating a whisper campaign
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, no, so it should not be used
<popey> oh dear
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, btw.. the #DEBHELPER# token should be *only* in debian/postinst debian/prerm or in libapache2-mod-passenger.prerm libapache2-mod-passenger.postinst aswell ?
<directhex> popey, due to his response in that thread, where he implies an endless source translation might get boring for its developer at some point
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: in all *inst and *rm scripts
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, ok cool
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: you should have misc:Depends for -doc
<popey> directhex: I tire immensely of the whole m ono thing, you must be made of sterner stuff
<directhex> popey, i was genuinely distraught last weekend at some of the hate against me on linuxtoday
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, ok this is -doc package: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/200125/
<popey> directhex: :( Sorry to hear that. We (Linux community) are our own worst enemy sometimes. It's so destructive.
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: you should have misc:Depends for -doc
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, just misc:Depends ?
<popey> directhex: Just remember there's a boatload of people out here who really appreciate the good work you do.
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: Depends: ${misc:Depends}
<directhex> popey, my spirits were lifted enormously by a blog post from David Schlesinger, the guy on u-d-d who had his bos contacted in an effort to have him fired
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, i meant, just misc:Depends and not shlibs:Depends. And, why should it be there ?
<popey> directhex: url? not seen it.
<directhex> popey, it'd be nice not to have people like [REDACTED] comparing my work to cancer. that'd be a good start
<directhex> popey, http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com/2009/06/when-zeal-becomes-zealotry-tawdry-tale.html
<directhex> popey, it gets extra epic in the comments
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: read man page; i'm not going to repeat the stuff i said 5 minutes ago
<popey> I am off out for the night, bookmarked for bedtime reading ;)
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, ok sorry
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, thanks for your help.
<ivoks> sure
<masterkernel> so should I just file a bug under needs-packaging and hope someone picks it up?
<directhex> masterkernel, unless it's an app made from awesome and win, requiring little work, the chances of someone doing it for you are not huge
<directhex> masterkernel, but you never know
<masterkernel> even if I have all the debian/ files ready?
<directhex> in that case, you don't file a needs-packaging bug, you upload the source package to REVU
<joaopinto> directhex, from my reading of the new package wiki you always need a needs-packaging bug, that's the one you close on the changelog
<hyperair> directhex: the issue is that masterkernel wants to remain anonymous.
<masterkernel> hyperair: looks like it's possible - http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/06/msg00601.html
<lesshaste> hi all
<masterkernel> hyperair: it's getting the sponsor to accept responsibility thats going to be tough
<hyperair> heh
<joaopinto> odd request
<joaopinto> masterkernel, what app is it ?
<masterkernel> joaopinto: kernelcheck, i'll give you the link to the deb source in a sec
<LCID_Fire> Hi - the bugger is back again ;)
<masterkernel> joaopinto: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/k/kernelcheck
<joaopinto> masterkernel, if I am not mistaken there is already a ppa to get the latest upstream kernel, I don't see much value on such app for ubuntu
<masterkernel> check out the doc link - it shows screenshots of the program: http://kcheck.sourceforge.net/pool/Documentation-Lumen.pdf
<masterkernel> and kernelcheck lets you customize the kernel - it's not just some generic kernel you can download
<masterkernel> it helps with hardware incompatible with the generic kernel, or modding the bootscreen, speeding up boot time and such
<joaopinto> ok
<LCID_Fire> when dpkg-source complains it means the difference between the orig.tar.gz and the debian changes, right?
<joaopinto> masterkernel, looks good :)
<hyperair> LCID_Fire: depends on what it complains about really
<LCID_Fire> hyperair: error: cannot represent change to some.png: binary file contents changed
<hyperair> heheh
<hyperair> right
<hyperair> yes
<hyperair> difference between orig.tar.gz and debian changes
<hyperair> question. some.png is inside or outside of debian/?
<LCID_Fire> outside
<hyperair> then don't change it!
<hyperair> just leave it as it is!
<LCID_Fire> I pretty much cannot - the original directory structure is pretty messed up
<joaopinto> LCID_Fire, you are not expected to cleanup original directory structure as part of the package building :P
<LCID_Fire> joaopinto: it's a dirty job, but someone has to do it ;)
<joaopinto> why not send that to upstream and request a new clean orig ?
<LCID_Fire> joaopinto: because the developer is not too much into contribution - besides he doesn't care too much because he doesn't have to on windows
<LCID_Fire> all: basically in order to get debian to work I have to leave every file in it's place?
<joaopinto> LCID_Fire, or you repack the original tarball, which is not very common
<LCID_Fire> oh boy
<joaopinto> and needs a strong reason
<LCID_Fire> ok, I'll look into whether restructuring again might be an option
<LCID_Fire> btw: how should one properly handle the deletion of a file being present in the orig.tar.gz?
<joaopinto> LCID_Fire, you should not delete files from .orig.tar.gz
<LCID_Fire> joaopinto: e.g. a compile script that I don't use!?
<joaopinto> just don't install them, or remove from the installation target
<LCID_Fire> and I do this by???
<joaopinto> LCID_Fire, let me try to be very clear, .orig = original source
<LCID_Fire> joaopinto: so you mean keep it in the sources but ignore!?
<joaopinto> just because you don't need it or dont use it, it is still part of the original source
<joaopinto> yes
<LCID_Fire> ok - that will be one messy source package
<joaopinto> if you need to "fix" the script, use a patch, if you don't just leave it there
<LCID_Fire> so - a lot of work ahead - but thanks for now guys :)
<ivoks> how should /etc/modprobe.d/dkms.conf be utilized?
<ivoks> superm1: here?
<dennis> Hello everybody
<RoAkSoAx> Heya guys can someone still work with FTBFS and missing dependencies after the Debian Import Freeze?
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: of course
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: development doesn't stop with dif
<nhandler> RoAkSoAx: The only thing that really happens after DIF is the auto-syncs from Debian stop
<dennis> my question is: Where to put arch dependent libs best, if I don't want to package them themselves, their part of an application
<RoAkSoAx> nhandler, what about merging and syncing new upstream versions?
<nhandler> RoAkSoAx: Those can continue
<RoAkSoAx> nhandler, till when?
<masterkernel> I filed a needs-packaging bug on launchpad: 389946 and uploaded the package to revu. now I need 2 Ubuntu developers to sign & review it, correct?
<nhandler> RoAkSoAx: It isn't really until FF where you need to start worrying about getting exceptions and stuff like that
<RoAkSoAx> nhandler, which is on August 27th?
<nhandler> Yes RoAkSoAx
<RoAkSoAx> nhandler, and after FF people start concentrating on bug fixing right?
<nhandler> RoAkSoAx: Correct. Bug fixes, important changes, and stuff that brings us closer to releasing a great Ubuntu ;)
<RoAkSoAx> nhandler, ok cool :) that cleared my doubts
<RoAkSoAx> thanks for your help
<dennis> *push*: Where to put arch dependent libs best, if I don't want to package them themselves, their part of an application
<nhandler> You're welcome RoAkSoAx
<dennis> or the other way around, am I allowed to copy libs to /usr/lib or /usr/lib64 in my package wich is not a lib...-package?
<hansolo669> hello when i try to bzr push it give me the error:      "bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emythbuntu-documentation/mythbuntu/documentation/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()"  i have run "bzr launchpad-login callum1234moo-live"(my launch pad name(user name is hansolo669)) and it looks like it workd but then still give the error. i have
<hansolo669> changed launch  pad name to hansolo669
<dennis> nobody online who knows where to put it and whether I am allowed?
<mrooney> any motu want to mentor me for a few minutes on building a nautilus package from a nautilus branch in git? I have the branch checked out, and the apt-get source of nautilus, I'm just not sure how to merge them
<nellery> mrooney: here's a MOTU video which details upgrading packages http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJzM2LNOtWU
<mrooney> nellery: ahh thanks that sounds functionally equivalent perhaps
<nellery> mrooney: and words to go along with it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<masterkernel> I filed a needs-packaging bug on launchpad: 389946 and uploaded the package to revu. now I need 2 Ubuntu developers to sign & review it, correct?
<RainCT> directhex: Hey. Can you take a look at bug #350203?  Seems like it needs /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so from libgtk2.0-dev to run, but that doesn't seem right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 350203 in youtranslate "crash on starting on intrepid" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/350203
<RainCT> masterkernel: Yes. Your best chance to get it reviewed quickly is asking here from time to time (but not too often as that would have the opposite effect ;)). Especially on Fridays as then it's "REVU Day".
<masterkernel> RainCT: thanks. will you do it? :)
<directhex> RainCT, your assessment seems correct. sounds like incorrect use of p/invoke to me
<directhex> yTTrayLib.cs:	[DllImport ("gdk-x11-2.0")]
<RainCT> masterkernel: As a start, look at the Warnings REVU gives you on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck; also please limit the description of the package to a technical (but understandable) description: it's not the right place to mention whether it's based upon a forum thread or who the authors of the original app are (this later information could go into debian/copyright)
<masterkernel> RainCT: thanks, will do
<directhex> RainCT, i'll pastebin a fix. too busy to upload myself
<RainCT> directhex: great, thanks
<directhex> http://paste.ubuntu.com/200266/
<RainCT> directhex: Oh, so easy? Thanks!
<directhex> RainCT, mono tries a few values for remapping when given a dllimport - but it does NOT try adding a SONAME version
<directhex> RainCT, which is why it resolves "gdk-x11-2.0" to "libgdk-x11-2.0.so" but not to "libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0"
<directhex> basically "foo" is assumed to be interchangeable with "foo.dll" as per the spec, and mono remaps "foo.dll" to "libfoo.so" automatically
<dtchen> superm1: apologies for the delay in answering your e-mail; i'll address some points tomorrow
<vadi2> What is the preferred format for ubuntu packages - debhelper or cdbs?
<RainCT> vadi2: That depends who you ask.
<dtchen> IOW, there is no One Strict Way regardless what anyone tells you.
<vadi2> Yeah, that's what has been confusing me. Alright.
<alefteris> vadi2, rumors thought have it that dh 7 is the cdbs killer :) just rumors..
<vadi2> Where can I find more information about dh 7?
<alefteris> dh 7 = debianhelper version 7, don't know where to find docs about it :(
<alefteris> debhelper* version 7
<Laney> /usr/share/doc/debhelper
<fta> man dh
<fta> :
<fta> :)
<kpirc> I am looking for a reviewer for my 'cadabra' package currently on REVU. It's a computer algebra system in C++, including a graphical notebook frontend with mathematics typesetting.
<kpirc> Any takers?
<kpirc> quiet night...
<masterkernel> I am in need a reviewer for 'kernelcheck', a GUI that can auto-build any 2.6 kernel from the upstream source with custom patches, and install it as a deb file.
<masterkernel> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck
<masterkernel> RainCT: I fixed all those warnings and the description
<ripps> Can someone help me, I'm trying to repackage mpd so that it runs under the local user's userspace and not it's own. Apparently there's some permission issues I've discovered in Karmic that's making it impossible for it scan files on an external harddrive mounted by gnome-vfs. I'm trying to create a mpd-userspace package, but I don't know how to make the package startup as the user and not as root service.
<RainCT> ripps: and wouldn't it be easier to give the user as which mpd runs permissions to access the files there?
<ripps> mpd is capable of being run in the userspace, it has code designed to run that way, but debian has always packaged it as root service, so I want to try and see if I can get to work well as a userspace app. That might even be a preferred method.
<ripps> RainCT: ^
<ripps> RainCT: also, the issue is because of devkit-disks which seems to mount external harddisks with different permissions.
<RainCT> masterkernel: No time to do a complete review now, but I've left some quick comments.
<masterkernel> RainCT: thanks, I'll check it out
<RainCT> ripps: Oh, so it runs as root? I'd hoped I'd have a system user for itself or something :/
<ripps> RainCT: not exactly root runs it as the mpd user, but that means it can't read files mounted as 0700 by devkit-disk
<RainCT> ripps: OK, you had scared me :P. So have you tried "sudo adduser mpd devkit-disk"?
<RainCT> err nevermind
<ripps> Yeah, it because devkit will only allow me, the user who mounted the disk to access it, not mpd
<ripps> I should be read/write for me and read for everybody else
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-21
<ripps> Is it possible to make an optional build-depend, one that installs if the distro supplies it, but to keep on building going even if it doesn't?
<directhex> ripps, yes
<directhex> wait, no
<directhex> not build-time
<directhex> only binary deps can do it
<ripps> I see some packages use 'packageA | packageB;' the only difference, there's no packageB for me.
<directhex> piped build-depends don't actually work
<directhex> i mean, they work, but they don't work work
<directhex> the main archive software used by debian, sbuild, ignores them
<ripps> I have a package I use to install a package and it's backports via fta's ppa-script, the issue is that later versions of ubuntu have a library has package which adds additional functionality if it's installed at compile time, but will ignore it if it isn't around. I want to this one package to install properly on all the distros from this single source
<fta> ripps, i have the same need, but i don't have a solution for that yet.
<fta> ripps, for chromium-browser, i would like to build with binutils-gold whenever it's available (karmic) and stay with the regular binutils otherwise (jaunty..)
<fta> ripps, one idea is to backport the build-dep but it's not always wanted or possible
<fta> ripps, another idea is to fork the packaging branch :(
<masterkernel> Is it all right if I upload my program to both REVU and mentors.debian.net?
<directhex> yes, but PLEASE double-check that the orig.tar.gz is the same in both, and will always be the same in both when using a get-orig-source rule (or uscan on a watch file)
<hansolo669> hello when i try to bzr push it give me the error:      "bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emythbuntu-documentation/mythbuntu/documentation/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()"  i have run "bzr launchpad-hansolo669"(my launch pad name(user name is hansolo669)) and it looks like it workd but then still gives the error. i have also made a 
<lifeless> don't type so much on a single line. IRC truncates
<lifeless> anyway, push to lp:mythbuntu-documentation/mythbuntu/documentation
<lifeless> but you need to run bzr lp-login hansolo669 first
<hansolo669> oh ok
<hansolo669> thanks
<hansolo669> now it says theres no mythbuntu documentation " No such project: mythbuntu-documentation"
<wgrant> hansolo669: Prefix 'mythbuntu-documentation' with a ~
<hansolo669> ok will try that
<hansolo669> thanks it worked
<JimHansson> Hi all; tried to upload package to REVU but my package never made it there, I have found one page telling me i need my gpg key added to REVU but the mailaddress does not work(admin@tiber.tauware.de) is there a new address that need to send my gpg key to or has the process for REVU changed?
<nhandler> JimHansson: Have you added your GPG key to your LP profile and logged into REVU?
<JimHansson> yes
<nhandler> JimHansson: What is the package?
<JimHansson> gtest  and gmock
<JimHansson> nhandler: do I also need to upload ssh keys?
<nhandler> JimHansson: No, you shouldn't need to
<nhandler> JimHansson: Give me a few minutes to look into this
<JimHansson> nhandler: ok
<nhandler> JimHansson: Do you have a link to your LP profile?
<JimHansson> https://launchpad.net/~jim-hansson
<nhandler> JimHansson: How are you uploading the package to REVU?
<JimHansson> dput
<JimHansson> nhandler dput REVU *-sources.changes
<nhandler> JimHansson: And could you pastebin the REVU section of your /etc/dput.cf file? Also, does dput show that it was uploaded?
<JimHansson> nhandler: i get *source.revu.upload file
<JimHansson> nhandler: revu.ubuntuwire.com, /incoming, anonymous
<JimHansson> nhandler: http://pastebin.com/d4f21a94e
<nhandler> JimHansson: I'm not sure what is wrong. I'm not seeing any errors in the error log. I can talk to some of the other REVU admins tomorrow and get back to you
<JimHansson> nhandler: it was some time ago(weeks) i tried it, maybe i should try again.
<nhandler> JimHansson: You didn't mention that part. Please try again now
<JimHansson> nhandler: already uploaded
<JimHansson> nhandler: removed .upload file, now it is uploaded
<nhandler> JimHansson:
<nhandler> Looks like it worked JimHansson: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gtest
<JimHansson> nhandler: cool, thanks for your help
<nhandler> You are welcome JimHansson
<JimHansson> now i only need to figure out where I go from here
<nhandler> JimHansson: I would start by resolving the warnings displayed by REVU
<JimHansson> nhandler: yes that need to be fixed, thanks once again
<ripps> Can someone please fix python-gnome2-extras in karmic? I think the problem is in the python-gdl dependency.
<geser> ripps: bug 389728
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389728 in gnome-python-extras "Uninstallable in Karmic due to bad dep on libgdl, FTBFS if rebuilt" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389728
<kpirc> I need a reviewer for my 'cadabra' package on REVU (it's a symbolic computer algebra system). Any takers?
<alefteris> $ reverse-build-depends something
<alefteris> reverse-build-depends: unable to find sources files.
<alefteris> what am I doing wrong?
<geser> have you a deb-src line in your sources.list?
<alefteris> geser, yes, I have
<alefteris> then I get and the following warning: Did you forget to run apt-get update (or add --update to this command)? at /usr/bin/reverse-build-depends line 234.
<geser> did you run "sudo apt-get update"? and it exited without error?
<alefteris> yes, update finishes fine, upgrade has some packages that can't be upgraded (because of new version of kernel and restricted stuff?)
<alefteris> you think it has to do with the problem?
<geser> no, upgrade has nothing to do with it, update just fetches the list including the one you need for reverse-build-depends
<geser> doesn't it still works?
<alefteris> no, I still get the same errors
<geser> hmm
<Ampelbein> alefteris: can you pastebin your /etc/sources.list ? what happens if you run 'sudo reverse-build-depends package' ?
<Ampelbein> alefteris: also try 'reverse-build-depends -s -u package'
<Laney> sudo?
<alefteris> Ampelbein, tried the last command, didn't help, my source are at http://paste.ubuntu.com/200735/
<Ampelbein> alefteris: what package are you trying? could it be one from the ppa's you have in your sources.list?
<alefteris> Ampelbein, cdbs for example
<Ampelbein> alefteris: ok, can you try 'reverse-build-depends -d cdbs 2>&1 | grep DEBUG' and pastebin the output?
<alefteris> Ampelbein, found it, by default it will search for karmic sources, so I need to spesify --distribution jaunty :)
<Ampelbein> alefteris: ah, ok.
<Ampelbein> i'm on karmic so I didn't notice
<alefteris> I can search for packages that have debhelper as a build-dep with: grep-dctrl -F Build-Depends debhelper -s Package /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jaunty_universe_source_Sources
<alefteris> but how to search for debhelper >= 7?
<alefteris> grep-dctrl man page mentions a --ge switch (greater or equal), but I can't figure our how to use it :(
<Ampelbein> alefteris: i think that switch is only for version comparisons. Use a regexp to find it, like 'grep-dctrl -F Build-Depends -r --pattern debhelper.\(\>=.7.* -s Package /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_karmic_*_Sources'
<alefteris> Ampelbein, thanks a lot :)
<Ampelbein> alefteris: got disconnect, did you receive my messages?
<alefteris> Ampelbein, yes, thank you :)
<LCIDFire> Hi all
<LCIDFire> When a package is build in ppa - how does one give e.g. autogen.sh execute rights? What does test -x do?
<slytherin> maxb: do you plan to request sync for libjaudiotagger-java
<masterkernel> Hello, I am in need of a reviewer for my package, kernelcheck. It is a GUI tool that can automatically (custom) build any 2.6 kernel from the upstream source with any patches the user wants.
<slytherin> geser: did you manage to get libjboss-buildmagic-java build to work?
<geser> huh? I didn't know that I should look at it
<c_korn> I don't have access to a file on the german mirror: http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/portaudio19/libportaudio2_19+svn20090620-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb 403 Forbidden
<p3rror> hello
<p3rror> i uploaded a package using dput
<p3rror> but it still invisible in the revu.ubuntuwire.com website
<p3rror> please can you tell me what happened ? maybe there are a delay
<geser> c_korn: I don't have a problem to wget your URL (IP: 141.76.2.131)
<c_korn> geser: hm, now it also works here. (am I getting mad?)
<maxb> slytherin: I was thinking about that - but I wanted to ask you about the s/default-jdk-builddep/default-jdk/ change - am I right in believing that it's purely a matter of convenience / efficiency of buildd time, and is fine to be dropped if it's the only remaining change?
<slytherin> maxb: i would like to see that change go in debian, but as long as debin package builds fine in karmic chroot i am fine with dropping it. Still we have 4 days till DIF, so see if you can forward the change.
<slytherin> geser: my bad. we discussed about maven related bootstrapping. I got confused
<slytherin> p3rror: what was the command you used
<geser> slytherin: I've looked into it but have to postpone the solution I wanted to try as one build-dependency is FTBFS (doxia-sitetools). Once this is resolved I should be able to give it a try to bootstrap it with the Debian deb.
<slytherin> geser: I don't see doxia-sitetools on FTBFS page
<geser> slytherin: because it FTBFS in jaunty already and didn't get retried in karmic (therefore there is no build record in karmic which could be shown on the FTBFS page)
<geser> slytherin: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24381838/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.doxia-sitetools_1.0-alpha-11-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> slytherin: see also http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=518446 . I could get it build with the packages mentioned in the 2nd comment but only when I took the debs from Debian. I didn't manage to get doxia from experimental to get build in karmic.
<ubottu> Debian bug 518446 in doxia-sitetools "doxia-sitetools: FTBFS: java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException" [Serious,Open]
<slytherin> geser: I will drop a mail to Debian maintainer asking to upload them to unstable.
<geser> slytherin: does it make sense when it doesn't build in Ubuntu? (it's not that we couldn't sync from experimental if needed)
<AndrewGe1> Hi. I've uploaded a patch to fix a package. I've subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors. Is there anything else I need to do?
<geser> AndrewGee: wait
<AndrewGee> geser: Okay. Thanks :) Just making sure I wasn't missing anything else :)
<geser> AndrewGee: what's the bug number so could give it a quick look?
<AndrewGee> geser: #387043
<geser> technically it looks OK
<AndrewGee> geser: Great
<slytherin> geser: he often builds packages against his personal repository.
<LCIDFire> Question: Why does a gcc compile an app fine on my machine but complain about a missing (put present) header file on the ppa build?
<LCIDFire> where is the gcc search path located?
<slytherin> LCIDFire: did you try building the package on your machine using pbuilder?
<LCIDFire> nope
<slytherin> LCIDFire: you should try then you will know what is missing in the packaging.
<LCIDFire> slytherin: great - that's exaclty what I was searching for - thanks
<slytherin> LCIDFire: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<LCIDFire> slytherin: do I have to run this stuff with sudo?
<slytherin> LCIDFire: yes
<slytherin> geser: sent mail to Debian maintainer. let's see what happens.
<LCIDFire> slytherin: do I have to wonder if it does not work out of the box?
<geser> LCIDFire: url to the build log?
<LCIDFire> geser: http://pastebin.com/d2fa39e42
<mrooney> directhex: is mono in a pretty good state in Karmic? I was thinking it would be a good idea for me to test a bunch of these memory related bugs there and see the results in 2.4 vs 2.0
<geser> LCIDFire: have you universe enabled in your pbuilder?
<LCIDFire> geser: don't really know how to enable
<geser> on the wiki page about pbuilder there should be action about it
<geser> LCIDFire: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Universe%20support
<LCIDFire> geser: what is the if doing - I don't get it
<geser> LCIDFire: some of the packages you need are in the universe component and as only main is enabled by default in your pbuilder they aren't found
<LCIDFire> geser: now I get it - the if is for building on debian
<geser> ah, the if on the wiki page
<LCIDFire> geser: are the packages deleted after I leave pbuilder?
<geser> LCIDFire: the "temporary" directory is deleted after every pbuilder run but the downloaded debs are cached
<LCIDFire> geser: hope so - it takes forever to download
<geser> LCIDFire: see /var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache/
<LCIDFire> geser: thanks - it worked
<ryanakca> Could someone give me a hand with debsign please? http://paste.ubuntu.com/201004/ ... I have 'DEBSIGN_KEYID' environment variable exported...
<geser> ryanakca: btw why do you sign a _i386.changes file?
<ryanakca> geser: I've done it for a while, I'm not sure, but iirc, it was because dput complained that it wasn't signed when I was dputting my .debs to my local repository. I might be completely wrong though.
<geser> ah, that makes sense
<jacob> if anyone's feeling energetic, mind doing a quick review of gfire? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=5744
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-21
<keffie_jayx> hey guys, I have a little issue with locales. upstream has moved locales to a new folder and now running the package sets it to the base langauge always.  however if I do LANG=EN  fr example I get the app in the correct language
<keffie_jayx> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/452710/
<ramiro> hi. where can I find the documentation of what variables I can expect to be set for debian/rules when dpkg-buildpackage is called?
<RAOF> ramiro: You can't really expect any environment variables to be set; debian/rules is not guaranteed to be called by dpkg-buildpackage (although it will be almost all the time).
<ramiro> RAOF: ok, that's what I thought. I found some documentation at http://man.cx/dpkg-buildpackage%281%29 that lists a few env vars.
<ramiro> and is there a non-hackish way (through the dpkg- tools) to determine what host system I'm building with and for (hackish being calling uname and gcc -dumpmachine).
<RAOF> dpkg-architecture
<RAOF> It doesn't export the variables itself, but it provides all the host information you'll need.
<ramiro> thank you
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is there a mailing lits for this channel ?
<kaushal> list*
<micahg> kaushal: there is a mailing list for MOTU
<kaushal> I have a particular issue
<kaushal> shall i post the thread ?
<micahg> kaushal: what type of issue?
<kaushal> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2010-June/004345.html
<micahg> kaushal: #ubuntu-server is probably the best place
<kaushal> micahg: i did that already
<micahg> kaushal: this channel is for packaging related issues, not support, also you posted on the weekend, you might want to see if you get some results Monday morning
<micahg> kaushal: I'd suggest trying the #ubuntu-server channel in about 9 hours
<kaushal> micahg: ok
<micahg> kaushal: maybe 8 hours
<kaushal> micahg: can i findout the package maintainer
<micahg> kaushal: In Ubuntu, we generally don't have maintainers
<micahg> kaushal: it's in universe, so MOTU is responsible for packaging
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> kaushal: but aside from one upload for hardy, it's been sync'd from Debian
<micahg> kaushal: BTW, there's an update in hardy-updates for your package
<kaushal> micahg: are you talking about ocsinventory-agent ?
<micahg> kaushal: yes
<kaushal> can i know the details ?
<micahg> kaushal: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ocsinventory-agent/1:0.0.8-1ubuntu0.1
<kaushal> micahg: how do i install it
<kaushal> i did apt-get update and then apt-get install ocs.....
<micahg> kaushal: you have to enable hardy-updates
<micahg> someone in #ubuntu can help with that
<kaushal> micahg: Thanks it worked now
<micahg> kaushal: good luck
<Rhonda> http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3574 - wtf?
<Rhonda> Can someone explain that one to me? :)
<directhex> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bro
<Rhonda> I know the slang term bro for brother, but I still don't get it.
<Rhonda> The ubuntu reference is what I'm puzzled about.
<didrocks> hyperair: hey, jcastro told me you have a branch for hal-free banshee, do you think it's in a state that can be integrated to maverick?
<hyperair> didrocks: i haven't actually tried it yet. it's still rather experimental, or so i have heard.
<didrocks> hyperair: the hal support is only for ipod or for all hw?
<hyperair> didrocks: all hw.
<hyperair> didrocks: if i'm not mistaken, that hal-free banshee branch will deprecate ipod-sharp and podsleuth, in favour of libgpod
<didrocks> hyperair: that would rock :) do you know who I should contact about it to see if we can integrated and leverage some tests? (unfortunately, I don't have enough upstream knowledge to hack on it there)
<hyperair> didrocks: lemme dig through my mail
<didrocks> (also, I don't see the branch there: http://git.gnome.org/browse/banshee/refs/heads)
<didrocks> thanks hyperair :)
<hyperair> =)
<RAOF> hyperair: Really?  I didn't think the hal-free banshee was particularly related to the libgpod transition?
<hyperair> RAOF: it wasn't?
<hyperair> RAOF: podsleuth isn't going to transition to hal-freedom anytime soon.
<RAOF> But there still aren't any C# bindings for libgpod, are there?
<Laney> didrocks: lamalex was working on it, its probably on gitorious
<RAOF> And the udev-backed Banshee branch is available _now_ (and may even work)
<didrocks> RAOF: do you have an url please? I want to put the crack on maverick now :)
<didrocks> Laney: hum, don't find it in gitorious (should be there, I guess: http://gitorious.org/banshee/mainline)
<Laney> I suggest you have a word with lamalex first
<Laney> It's probably this http://gitorious.org/~lamalex/banshee/lamalex-udev or one of the clones/branches
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, google was just my friend :) not sure if that's what RAOF was talking about
<didrocks> I'll email him now
<hyperair> RAOF: the libgpod C# bindings are being worked on afaik
<Laney> he hangs around in #banshee as well
<Laney> (just not atm)
<didrocks> Laney: ok, I'll try to ping him when he's there, I wasn't sure he was hanging on IRC
<didrocks> hyperair: Laney: thanks!
<Laney> no worries
<directhex> he's on yank time, so try again when yanks aren't sleeping
<hyperair> didrocks: http://old.nabble.com/iPhone-Support-in-Banshee-tt23116289.html#a28873202
<hyperair> didrocks: ping alan on #banshee as well
<hyperair> (he's also not around currently)
<directhex> he's on ireland time, so should be about
<didrocks> hyperair: oh sweet, will do, thanks
<hyperair> http://gitorious.org/~alanmcgovern/banshee/banshee-iphone <-- this looks like a clone of lamalex's branch though
<RAOF> Yeah, it is.
<directhex> he had it working
<RAOF> Sorry about that, X freeze.
<directhex> he was showing demos
<didrocks> directhex: really? Hum, can be interesting to include it for alpha2 then
<hyperair> the e-mail mentioned it should be upstreamed in a week or two (from that date, that should be around now, or next week)
<directhex> alan just materialized FYI
<directhex> <alan> If he is, tell him to keep an eye on: http://gitorious.org/~alanmcgovern/banshee/banshee-iphone
<directhex> <alan> i cloned yesterday and will start pushing my work to there this week
<directhex> <alan> once everything is good to go, i'll push my changes to lamalexs branch
<directhex> <alan> and once his changes are all good to go, they'll be pushed to banshee
<keffie_jayx> hey all, I just addd a patch system to a package, after setting up the patch, is there something I should add to debian/rules for it to be applied during the build of the deb file?
<keffie_jayx> I fund what I was looking for reading more carefully the docs
<sbasuita> What's the simplest/cleanest way to get cdbs to run autoreconf -fi (yes, I know it should be done upstream ;P)
<statik> scottk: i will take a look at revu and delete anything i have left in there (and possibly move it to DPMT instead)
<ScottK> statik: Thanks.  DPMT would be good.
<dobey> hi fabrice_sp :)
<dobey> fabrice_sp: good news. mocker 1.0 was relased yesterday :P
<fabrice_sp> dobey, you was waiting for me :-D
<fabrice_sp> so the watch file should work, right?
<dobey> fabrice_sp: hehe. i just switched channels and saw you come in. the watch file does work now. i ran uscan and it downloaded the new tarball :P
<dobey> fabrice_sp: but the license changed, and lots of bugs were fixed. there's only 1 open on mocker now. so i'm making the deb for 1.0
<fabrice_sp> dobey, cool
<fabrice_sp> ping me when you get the package in a good shape, and I'll ave a look
<fabrice_sp> what is the new license?
<dobey> and i'm going to fix it to run tests during the build too
<dobey> BSD
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> good
<fabrice_sp> by the way, it's python, riht?
<dobey> yes
<dobey> fabrice_sp: alright, just did the dput to revu for it :)
<fabrice_sp> did you try to ocntact debian-python team?
 * fabrice_sp don't remember if he already tried to send you there .-)
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: poke :)
<dobey> fabrice_sp: i haven't, because as i said, just trying to have it packaged in ubuntu, so we can rely on the package rather than copying mocker.py across all the ubuntu one projects where we use it (and the landscape/launchpad guys also want it), and in order to have it packaged, and to run tests in our package builds, it would need to be in ubuntu, rather than just a PPA
<NorthernLights> Hi all
<dobey> and upstream would prefer not to have it packaged at all, but i bugged him enough to reach a compromise in that regard :)
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: yes?
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: ah yes,in this : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8319
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: do i add a debian/watch or modify debian/rules?
<tumbleweed> we might as well move this to PM
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: sure
<dobey> hi NorthernLights
<NorthernLights> Hola
<ScottK> tumbleweed: It's better to keep technical discussions in the channel so bystanders can learn.
<NorthernLights> Any answer about the Original-Maintainer thingy?
<dobey> NorthernLights: i didn't ask, but my comment on revu was based on what the FAQ says on the wiki about it :)
<NorthernLights> oh
<tumbleweed> ScottK: ok, sure. but they can get long and noisy :)
<NorthernLights> i guess you're right
 * NorthernLights is still tickled...
<ScottK> tumbleweed: I think it's fine.
<NorthernLights> Hola MOTU!
<tumbleweed> in that case, shadeslayer_: both. example: http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/python-modules/packages/configobj/trunk/debian/rules?revision=12242&view=markup
<NorthernLights> Must new Ubuntu packages debian/control file have a XSBC-Original-Maintainer field?
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Not that I particularly worry with you, but there have been problems in the past with bad advice given in PM.  If it's in public, QA can happen real time.
<ScottK> NorthernLights: No, it's not absolutely required, but there will be warnings as a result, so generally it's better.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: yeah, agreed.
<NorthernLights> Tx ScottK
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: if you can walk me through those lines please :)
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: ive understood the 3rd line of get-orig-source :P
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: so, it's all executed as one sh command (that's why we set -e, to exit or errors)
<shadeslayer_> bah.. ive understood all of it except line 1 and 2
<tumbleweed> VER uses dpkg-parsechangelog to find what the current version of the source package is and store it in VER
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: is that a standard line used everywhere?
<shadeslayer_> like suppose can i use it for my package?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: no I don't think there are any standards to this kind of thing, but it's a nice way to do it
<tumbleweed> this example actually gets us a zip file which then gets repacked as .tar.gz - let me see if I can find a simpler examlpe
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: ok one more thing,where does it store the URL part? the actual URL it has to download?
<tumbleweed> that comes from debian/watch
<shadeslayer_> ahh..
<tumbleweed> which also has a little magic: http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/python-modules/packages/configobj/trunk/debian/watch?revision=12242&view=markup
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: ok, here's a simpler one: http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/python-modules/packages/pyfiglet/trunk/debian/rules
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: ah ok,i understand...
<shadeslayer_> i need spend a little more time reading about sed tho :P
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: and the watch file..
<shadeslayer_> whats : opts=dversionmangle=s/\+ds// \
<tumbleweed> so, our version has +ds at the end, but upstream doesn't
<tumbleweed> that says remove +ds from the version
<shadeslayer_> ah...
<tumbleweed> the sed was also doing that, and stripping the "Version: " a the beginning
<tumbleweed> [^+]+ means "everything until you reach a +"
<NorthernLights> ^.*\+
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: so "Version: " is like the string or a number,like 1.0.0 ?
<tumbleweed> NorthernLights: * is greedy, so it'll catch everything util the last +
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: run dpkg-parsechangelog and you'll see
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: on the dsc file?
<tumbleweed> just in your source
<shadeslayer_> Ohhhh
<NorthernLights> right tumbleweed
<NorthernLights> but are you sure ^+ means anything?
<tumbleweed> NorthernLights: when a [] starts with a ^ it means anything except what's listed
<NorthernLights> oh i didn't know that, thanks
 * NorthernLights is taking advantage of a pause in the discussion
<NorthernLights> *inhales... exhales...
<NorthernLights> Hey MOTUs! Wanna review a great package? Easy and quick! Nice upstream software! http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/synergy-plus ! Yeah!
<shadeslayer_> hehe :D
<shadeslayer> ok so i have this lintian warning : W: qipmsg source: dh-clean-k-is-deprecated
<shadeslayer> but when i replace dh_clean -k with [ ! -f Makefile ] || $(MAKE) distclean,the package fails to build
<sbasuita> shadeslayer: you're meant to use dh_prep instead
<shadeslayer> ok wait... wth its building now :P
<shadeslayer> sbasuita: ok.. .so use dh_prep now?
<fabrice_sp> dobey, in case you're still here: you should run update-maintainer
<shadeslayer> sbasuita: ok thanks
<sbasuita> shadeslayer: i just googled and found http://lintian.debian.org/tags/dh-clean-k-is-deprecated.html ;)
<fabrice_sp> (It seems I missed it before)
<shadeslayer> btw to update my revu upload,what should i do? post debdiff?
<dobey> fabrice_sp: what does that do?
<shadeslayer> sbasuita: yes i found that too,but lintian says otherwise ;)
<sbasuita> shadeslayer: what does it say?
<shadeslayer> sbasuita: http://shadeslayer.pastebin.com/HRWJWrAz
<fabrice_sp> dobey, update the maintainer field to the latest value, and put your name in XSBC-original-maintainer
<dobey> fabrice_sp: haha
<dobey> [dobey@lunatari:mocker]: update-maintainer --help
<dobey> Maintainer email is set to an @ubuntu.com address - doing nothing.
<fabrice_sp> argh
<dobey> fabrice_sp: should it be something else for some reason? i will be maintaining it
<fabrice_sp> dobey, the correct value is "Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>"
<NorthernLights> dobey, :p
<fabrice_sp> put yourself as original-maintainer
<sbasuita> shadeslayer: dh_clean and make distclean do two separate jobs
<dobey> fabrice_sp: fix the FAQ :)
<fabrice_sp> and after uploaded, subscribe to the bug reports
<fabrice_sp> which FAQ?
<dobey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/FAQ#What%20does%20XSBC-Original-Maintainer%20mean?
<sbasuita> shadeslayer: you'll need both
<fabrice_sp> dobey, what should be fixed?
<fabrice_sp> Sorry, but it seems correct with a quick read :-)
<dobey> fabrice_sp: that entry implies that Original-Maintainer should match the previous value of Maintainer, when a package is changed in Ubuntu. It doesn't say new packages directly in Ubuntu should have the maintainer set to Ubuntu Developers and Original-Maintainer set. it implies that is only for pre-existing package being changed in Ubuntu
<dobey> and there is no preexisting package being changed in ubuntu here
<fabrice_sp> dobey, well, I'm sure that there is some wiki page that says that the maintainer field sohuld be set to Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com> for ubuntu's package
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> dobey, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<NorthernLights> How about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#control ?
<NorthernLights> "In Ubuntu we set the Maintainer field to a general address because anyone can change any package (this differs from Debian where changing packages is usually restricted to an individual or a team).
<NorthernLights> Edit control using the information above (making sure to provide your information for the XSBC-Original-Maintainer field)."
<dobey> rfabok, so it should be set to Ubuntu Developers, and Original-Maintainer not set at all
<dobey> err
<dobey> wtf
<dobey> i typed fab<tab> and got rfabok?
 * dobey pokes irssi with a stick
<dobey> fabrice_sp: ok, so it should be set to Ubuntu Developers, and Original-Maintainer not set at all
<dobey> no?
<fabrice_sp> dobey, you can put yourself as xsbc-original-maitainer
<dobey> all these pages seem to say something just slightly different :-/
<dobey> fabrice_sp: ok, just dput another upload with that change
<fabrice_sp> dobey, ok. I'll download it in a bit
<fabrice_sp> dobey, my point is that if you had uploaded it to Debian, your name would be there, so it follow the same. If you check dvdstyler, you'll se my name there :-)
<fabrice_sp> (and it's a pure ubuntu package)
<dobey> fabrice_sp: if i had uploaded it to debian, and Maintainer includes @ubuntu.com, the wiki page states it shouldn't change, anyway :)
<fabrice_sp> well, I would had updated it :-)
<fabrice_sp> as maintenance in Ubuntu is Team based
<gubatron> Hi, I'm a member of the FrostWire team, we've finished packing a frostwire source package as requested here for inclusion to Ubuntu repo https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/94011 - They told me to come here for help to see what's needed to include FrostWire as part of the repo.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 94011 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Frostwire" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<dobey> fabrice_sp: well, if i'd uploaded to debian, there would be no need to maintain it in ubuntu really. would just need it synced, and then approved for MIR later i guess
<fabrice_sp> dobey, right: in a sync, the maintainer won't be hcanged
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: um, I thought it was, during build
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, let me check, but source isn't
<tumbleweed> yeah, source isn't, binary is
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, right
<fabrice_sp> I've just with one package and source is still Debian maintainer, but binary is updated to Ubuntu Developers
<fabrice_sp> I didn't know that. Thanks tumbleweed !
<dobey> fabrice_sp: do you need to re-advoacate for the new upload?
<fabrice_sp> dobey, yep
<fabrice_sp> That's what I was doing :-)
<fabrice_sp> do you know if the BSD license file is copied in some place in the system? (like the GPL one)
<tumbleweed> the BSD license is almost always modified by the user
<dobey> don't think it is
<fabrice_sp> ok
<tumbleweed> /usr/share/common-licenses/BSD
<dobey> oh it is
<tumbleweed> but watch out, people change "the name of the University"
<dobey> but that's broken
<dobey> because everyone doesn't assign copyright to the Regents of the University of Berkeley
<dobey> so linking to that would imply the uni owns the copyright
<tumbleweed> something like that
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: my new rules file : http://shadeslayer.pastebin.com/R5ZmbPzZ
<shadeslayer_> still playing with it tho...
<shadeslayer_> line 26 should be dh_prep... but its not working with that
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: I doubt your package is called configobj :)
<shadeslayer_> ><
<shadeslayer_> corrected :)
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: ok what do you think of line 26? lintian complains of using dh_prep
<shadeslayer_> but when i use it package FTBFS
<tumbleweed> why would you clean inbetween build and install?
<dobey> fabrice_sp: hrmm. was that comment supposed to end immediately after "another" ? or did it get chopped off? (there's no period)
<tumbleweed> oh -k
<shadeslayer_> :)
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: so, what's the problem with dh_prep?
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: http://shadeslayer.pastebin.com/4zEsfjBP
<shadeslayer_> causes FTBFS cuz im not using it properly :P
<fabrice_sp> dobey, it was supposed to end with "sponsor."
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: http://pastebin.com/Nwcrg0tu
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: i moved dh_prep to the clean part
<dobey> fabrice_sp: ok
<dobey> who wants to sponsor my package and upload it to universe? :)
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: why? why not replace dh_clean -k with dh_prep
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: same issue
<shadeslayer_> causes FTBFS
<tumbleweed> what fails?
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: make[1]: *** No rule to make target `packages/qipmsg-1.0.0.orig/debian/qipmsg'.  Stop.
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: works fine for me, as long as you "[ ! -f src/Makefile ] || $(MAKE) clean"
<shadeslayer_> aha!
<shadeslayer_> lets see what happens now..
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: how do i update my revu request with new changes?
<tumbleweed> you upload it again
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: nuke earlier package?
<tumbleweed> it'll replace it
<shadeslayer_> ah ok
<shadeslayer_> even if its the same version?
<tumbleweed> yup
<shadeslayer_> nice nice...
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: what can i do about I: qipmsg: spelling-error-in-binary ./usr/bin/qipmsg Unkown Unknown
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: still ftbfs :P
<shadeslayer_> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `packages/qipmsg-1.0.0.orig/debian/qipmsg'.  Stop.
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: can you pastebin your rules file? or is it the same?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: a single line like that doesn't help. Paste your rules file, the command you are excuting, and output
<shadeslayer_> hold on ill pastebin the whole log :)
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: http://pastebin.com/wGfPiZDU
<shadeslayer_> thats the rules file
<tumbleweed> I see it's still called configobj
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: yeah i know :P
<tumbleweed> and you try to unzip a .tar.bz2
<shadeslayer_> oh..  i need tar there
<BlackZ> <shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: how do i update my revu request with new changes? <- However you need to use the option '-f' or delete the related *.upload file otherwise you can't upload it newly
<shadeslayer_> BlackZ: yes know about that :)
<shadeslayer_> dput -f :)
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: http://pastebin.com/LtP8E9wZ
<shadeslayer_> thats even worse than debuild :P
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: new upstream xchat is available to merge
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: http://pastebin.com/NSLtUiUG
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: oh really? I will merge it then
<BlackZ> I didn't know, sorry
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: ;)
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: also after line 58,which dir is the script in? the untarred dir or the dir in which the packed sources are present?
<ari-tczew> this is an example, when MoM should send e-mail to last uploader with information about merge available
<shadeslayer_> ( probably later according to me )
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: current directory - it never cds
<shadeslayer_> brb
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: ok
<shadeslayer_> that means ill have to add some more to the get-orig-source part
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: so, I see your problem. It only worked before because I'd been playing around
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: I think just allow the make clean to fail
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: unless someone who knows qmake better has a suggestion
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: yeah, it looks like your get-orig-source needs testing :)
<shadeslayer_> yep...
<shadeslayer_> ok,so finally now,let clean fail,but wont that cause package to ftbfs?
<tumbleweed> no, I mean say "- $(MAKE) clean"
<shadeslayer_> ah ..
<shadeslayer_> i was typing that :P
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: also about dh_prep.. do i let it stay? or use dh_clean -k ?
<tumbleweed> don't use clean -k, it's deprecated
<shadeslayer_> hmm
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: http://shadeslayer.pastebin.com/AseHBtgr
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: I simply don't get that. what am I doing wrong? http://shadeslayer.pastebin.com/rfA5EfS4
<geser> tumbleweed: you don't have an space in the directory where you try to build the package like shadeslayer_
<geser> from shadeslayer_: DESTDIR=/home/shadeslayer/ninja/New packages/qipmsg-1.0.0.orig/debian/qipmsg
<tumbleweed> geser: :)
<geser> the " " in New packages isn't escaped or guarded
<tumbleweed> well spotted
<tumbleweed> oh I suppose that'd have been obvious if I'd read the log properly. must be getting tired
<BlackZ> geser: in the new xchat package we use dpatch but the maintainer of the package dropped dpatch and adopted quilt, now we have two possibilities: 1. reintroduce dpatch for our patches; 2. rename all patches. What's the best way for you?
<micahg> BlackZ: why do you have to rename the patches?
<geser> BlackZ: 3. convert the dpatches to quilt
<ari-tczew> how can I get buildlog from pbuilder-dist ?
<Laney> ~/pbuilder/blah_result/last_operation.log
<BlackZ> micahg: in the currently debian package the patches are in the *.patch ext, for an "university" reason
<BlackZ> also, the package uses quilt as well, now
<geser> ari-tczew: pbuilder-dist maverick build --logfile build.log a_package.dsc
<geser> oh, pbuiler-dist logs by default?
<Laney> yep
<micahg> BlackZ: right, but you're merging from debian, right?  so, just convert whatever patches we add like geser suggested
<BlackZ> yes, I missed that, thanks geser
<ari-tczew> thanks Laney and geser
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-22
<cheezeburga> hello?
<cheezeburga> can anyone tell me the command to open up the sound board?
<micahg> !support | cheezeburga
<ubottu> cheezeburga: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Please be aware that this channel is for development only.
<cheezeburga> oh sorry
<psusi> is there something like cut that isn't so stupid simple?  I'm trying to extract the rss column from the output of ps and cut seems to be incapable of doing so since the columns are separated with multiple spaces
<micahg> psusi: perl? :)
<psusi> a little lighter than that? ;)
<psusi> I can't bloody believe cut can't do this.... you would think it would be the default mode
<micahg> psusi: you can't places the spaces in quotes?
<psusi> one or more consecutive whitespace characters... sheesh..  heh
<psusi> no... it's the output of ps... I"m not typing it by hand
<psusi> and I don't think that would matter anyhow
<ajmitch> psusi: pipe it through tr first?
<tumbleweed> psusi: awk
<psusi> hrm... tr might do it... I keep meaning to learn awk and never do... heh
<tumbleweed> psusi: ps waux  | awk '{print $6 " " $11}'
<tumbleweed> or just {print $6} for just RSS
<ajmitch> or you could be bad & work out which character ranges fit the field you want from the ps output, but that seems awkward
<ajmitch> awk just fits better in this case, I think
<psusi> ahh, thanks
<psusi> hrm... can awk sum the values? ;)
<ajmitch> yes
 * psusi is trying to track down why the stock ubuntu kernels seem to use 400+ mb more ram than mainline
<psusi> 545 mb actually...
<micahg> psusi: if each line is a value then: php -r '$myArray = file(my_file); echo array_sum($myArray);'
<ajmitch> that involves php..
 * micahg forgets most people don't have php installed :-)
<ajmitch> s/most/sane/
 * micahg doesn't remember offhand how to do the same thing in perl...
<ajmitch> how about ps axu |awk '{sum += $5} END {print sum}'
<psusi> I was just coming to that conclusion after reading the man page ;)
<psusi> hrm.. yea... rss totals virtually the same, yet I have 545 mb more free mem after buffers/cache when running the mainline kernel...
<psusi> 845 vs 305 mb
<psusi> used
<ajmitch> psusi: memory reserved for kernel use?
<ajmitch> is this 32 bit vs 64-bit?
<psusi> I guess so... but how to figure out why?  64 bit
<psusi> that's a LOT of memory for the kernel to be using....
<ajmitch>  grep 'Memory.*reserved' /var/log/dmesg
<psusi> Memory: 1982480k/2096000k available (5600k kernel code, 468k absent, 113052k reserved, 5522k data, 884k init)
<psusi> that seems to be with the running mainline kernel...
<psusi> this is the Ubuntu 2.6.35-4: [    0.000000] Memory: 2041420k/2096000k available (5689k kernel code, 468k absent, 54112k reserved, 5436k data, 896k init)
<psusi> looks about the same...
<ajmitch> [    0.004000] Memory: 8073096k/9175040k available (4743k kernel code, 787460k absent, 313600k reserved, 2525k data, 532k init)
<ajmitch> but it's jaunty, on a desktop box
<psusi> not much different...
<ajmitch> much larger values absent/reserved
<ajmitch> though I think that's due to having 8GB RAM
<psusi> yea, but not hundreds of mb... and absent I'm pretty sure just means you have more physical ram that is unusable due to poor motherboard/bios
 * psusi goes hunting for kernel vm knobs
 * andreserl TestDrive PyGTK Front-end Demo Released!
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: I think I have the virtualbox patch
<micahg> is it proper to give credit to the person that does the original work (by direct name reference instead of commit reference) if you backport their patch?
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Hello dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<slytherin> Can anyone help with this error - http://paste.ubuntu.com/453248/ I see this when doing debuild -S -sa, but 'quilt applied' says there are no patches applied.
<RAOF> slytherin: Is that a 3.0 (quilt) package?
<carstenh> slytherin: remove this hunk from the patch and rebuild?
<slytherin> yes
<RAOF> slytherin: Then it'll be trying to unapply the patch before constructing the source package (because the patch has been *applied* to the unpacked source).
<slytherin> carstenh: you might be right. I never checked if the patch was applied upstream.
<carstenh> in dpkg 3.0 patches need to apply _cleanly_
<slytherin> carstenh: you were right. The patch was cherry picked form upstream git. Hence it is not needed anymore with latest upstream release.
<carstenh> how does ubuntu handle ftbfs bugs in general? if the package has been built by chance release ubuntu including this package and this bug if nobody cares enought to fix it or are this bugs that need to be fixed before releasing?
<slytherin> carstenh: The priority of FTBFS bugs depends on which section the package belongs to i.e. main/universe and then which package set, desktop/server/core.
<carstenh> it's chromium or rather libv8 on 64 bit kernel with 32 bit userland, i'll check if it is in main
<slytherin> it is in universe
<carstenh> actually it is chromium-browser since chromium is a game
<RAOF> carstenh: Is the FTBFS really that specific?  We don't support that combination, except somewhat half-heartedly, so it's not terribly surprising that it doesn't work.
<carstenh> also universe, thanks :)
<carstenh> RAOF: in debian it's a serious bug and I know no other package that fails to build with 32 bit userland under an amd64 kernel.
<carstenh> but "not supported" is what I wanted to know, thanks
<RAOF> carstenh: You mean a real, full 32bit userland?
<RAOF> Not multiarch?
<RAOF> We still don't support that, but a FTBFS in that situation is going to be significantly more weird.
<carstenh> RAOF: uname -a: Linux pergolesi 2.6.26-2-amd64 #1 SMP Wed May 12 23:40:58 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<carstenh> RAOF: dpkg --print-architecture: i386
<RAOF> carstenh: Weird.  It's not something to do with the old kernel?
<carstenh> RAOF: they do (among other things) to detect the target arch: python -c 'import platform; print platform.machine()'
<carstenh> RAOF: no, same with .32
<carstenh> and just for the record: no multiarch :)
<RAOF> Gah.  This is the problem with autotools.  It's crazy and annoying and awkward, but everything else is *worse*
<carstenh> the problem is more not using autotools but scons and inventing weird NIH things ;)
<carstenh> and full ack to autotools :)
<slytherin> Does anyone know for sure of launchpad supports orig.tar.bz2 when using 3.0 format?
<carstenh> supporting 3.0 implies supporting orig.tar.bz2, so if it does not it's a bug
<kaushal> hi
<carstenh> hi
<kaushal> which package contains mutt ?
<carstenh> mutt
<kaushal> on hardy
<carstenh> maybe you need to enable universe
<kaushal> ok
<slytherin> mutt is in main since start.
<Rhonda> Now that's the absolte sweetest thing I ever read in a launchpad bug: "Nothing seems to work, and my dad said that you should raport your problem to ubuntu, so now im here. Thans if you fix problem."  bug 590645
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 590645 in tmw (Ubuntu) "the mana world (dup-of: 528957)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/590645
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528957 in libsdl1.2 (Ubuntu Lucid) "mouse button clicks not detected in windowed mode" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528957
<slytherin> Rhonda: Is there any particular reason why you repackage upstream tarball as .tar.gz for wesnoth?
<Rhonda> Because source format 1.0 doesn't support .tar.bz2?
<directhex> presumably for backportability
<directhex> that's the usual reason to repack these days
<Rhonda> And the benefits of source format 3.0 are pretty minor when one is using quilt already.
<Rhonda> Actually the workflow that source format 3.0 likes to push onto packagers is quite different from 1.0+quilt.
<Rhonda> And the most obvious reason: Because wesnoth upstream doesn't provide .tar.gz  :P
<RAOF> If you're storing in revision control I think that source 3.0 makes more sense.  Apart from that, eh.
<slytherin> Rhonda: If nothing else you could save quite a few MB on mirror by using 3.0 + bz2.
<Rhonda> RAOF: Erm, it makes less sense because source 3.0 applies patches to source in unpack stage _additional_ to in debian/patches/foo
<Rhonda> So you get the same difference _twice_ into the VCS
<Rhonda> slytherin: That's only a very minor gain.
<Rhonda> slytherin: Along the same reasoning I would waste quite some processing time on the buildds or anyone who likes to fiddle around with the source.
<Rhonda> Diskspace is cheap, I always was told, and the gain isn't that much.
<hyperair> i don't have the money for disk space anyway >_>
<hyperair> unless you count a 1G thumbdrive.
<RAOF> Rhonda: Yeah, you get the changes twice in the VCS.  On the other hand, you also get to use âbzr annotateâ on the unpacked source and it works.
<Rhonda> RAOF: I wouldn't be insane enough to store upstream sources for wesnoth in git anyway.
<Rhonda> Disk space isn't _that_ cheap. And I removed myself from wormux packaging because of the upstream sources got imported into the VCS, too.
<Rhonda> You have the annotate on debian/patches/foo too.
<Rhonda> So even that part is duplicated.
<slytherin> Rhonda: You live in a country with expensive electronics and expensive bandwidth, every bit counts. Anyway it is your decision as maintainer.
<Rhonda> slytherin: It requires less bandwidth and diskspace if I pull the tarball seperately and only unpack it when it's needed. If it would be in the VCS I am required to have it unpacked on the harddisk all the time.
<Rhonda> So yes, I am doing a decision as maintainer that helps along those lines. :)
<slytherin> Rhonda: No. I wasn't even talking about VCS.
<slytherin> I was just talking about space in archive.
<Rhonda> People don't mirror the archive when they have expensive electronics and expensive bandwidth. They pull only the parts they need.
<slytherin> That's where expensive bandwidth comes into picture. The difference is about 30MB. Anyway, let's close the discussion.
<Rhonda> The difference in percentage? wesnoth unfortunately isn't the best choice for a package to work on in such an environment, I'm afraid.
<Rhonda> Gimme source 1.0 + bz2 and I'll upload it as is. source 3.0 isn't helpful just because of that, it's rather a pain on the contrary, sorry.
<slytherin> I can understand.
<slytherin> Maintaining something like wesnoth is surely pain. :-)
<Rhonda> It really is. Deeper changes are tedious because the build process takes so long. It was a real annoyance to get DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=parallel working, for a start.
<Rhonda> And I still fear a bit the required testing/work for creating the unversioned meta package properly, with dpkg-divert and update-alternatives and the likes.
<Rhonda> slytherin: For the last security issues within wesnoth I had to do no less than 6 builds for the various distributions, and when I say builds I mean that, no source-only uploads in Debian.
<slytherin> :-)
 * Rhonda . o O ( given that a source-only upload without a build for a security issue is a braindead thing anyway )
<Rhonda> â¦ s/a build/at least a local-build/
<DeeJay1> dholbach: I think I managed to fsck up on samarium - https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~deejay1/+recipe/daily/+build/60 it seems to be running 3 hours now
<dholbach> DeeJay1: can you ask in #launchpad - they know what has to be done
<DeeJay1> dholbach: will do
<AnAnt> Hello, is something missing in 588736 ?
<AnAnt> LP #588736
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588736 in mutt (Ubuntu) "Candidate release mutt 1.5.20-8ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588736
<MTecknology> There's an init.d file in debian/ in this package. I want to add an additional init.d script - i'm kind of lost because I don't see where this init.d file gets installed
<AnAnt> which package ?
<MTecknology> nginx
<tumbleweed> MTecknology: dh_installinit normally installs them for you
<micahg> AnAnt: bug title: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging?action=show&redirect=MOTU%2FPackages%2FMerging#File%20a%20merge%20bug
<MTecknology> tumbleweed: the file is init.d - how can I add another file?
<AnAnt> MTecknology: why add another init ?
<AnAnt> MTecknology: for the -dbg package ?
<MTecknology> AnAnt: I've been using a completely different init script for starting php processes that doesn't really fit into the purpose of nginx init script - i have no use for it if I don't install nginx so i figured this would be a decent place to put it - i've had others ask me for the script and i figure this is a way to distribute it too
<tumbleweed> MTecknology: put it into examples?
<MTecknology> tumbleweed: I want it to wind up executable in /etc/init.d/
<tumbleweed> MTecknology: what about the nginx users who don't use php?
<AnAnt> MTecknology: well,  dh_installinit  manpage would help you then
<MTecknology> tumbleweed: they won't have a reason to grab my version of the packace
<MTecknology> package*
<tumbleweed> MTecknology: oh, ok then. yes what AnAnt said.
<MTecknology> oh...
<MTecknology> debian/nginx.init and debian/php-fcgi.init <- add those and the magic dh will work?
<AnAnt> MTecknology: you will have to name the init.d file as package.<name>.init, then you will need to pass --name=<name> to dh_installinit in debian/rules file
<MTecknology> thanks :)
<MTecknology> AnAnt: the man page makes it sounds like I can't pass --name= twice in one line, the dh_prep part makes it sound like i need to pass dh_install_init twice - is that right?
<AnAnt> maybe you can run dh_installinit several times
<MTecknology> THANKS A LOT :)
<MTecknology> sorry- bumped caps
<AnAnt> no problem
 * tumbleweed disables capslock. it's unecessary
<MTecknology> tumbleweed: .. that's an amazing idea
<tumbleweed> some oldschool sun-people remap it to ctrl
<MTecknology> tumbleweed: I fixed it :D
<MTecknology> tumbleweed: took the key off the board
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: quick question,can i put the current year in debian/copyright if upstream doesnt ship a year for the copyright stuff?
<shadeslayer_> or can i leave the year...
<MTecknology> darn.. when you spell something wrong the package doesn't build
<MTecknology> computer magic should cover that - it should do what i want instead of what i tell it to :P
<shadeslayer_> hi is this rules file ( specifically the part about the get-orig-source ) ok ? : http://pastebin.com/b9pFKvy7
<geser> shadeslayer_: do I see it correctly that you only repack it to remove the debian directory?
<geser> shadeslayer_: have you thought about using v3 source format? that way you could use the upstream tar.bz2 as is (v3 gives you "You don't have to repack the upstream tarball to strip the debian directory." for free)
<shadeslayer_> geser: yes,upstream ships a debian/ folder
<shadeslayer_> geser: uh... im using the new source format ... the one with debian/source/format
<shadeslayer> so no need to use the get-orig-source part?
<maxb> You can use source format 1.0 with an explicit debian/source/format - that doesn't tell us anything :-)
<shadeslayer> maxb: so what do i have to do for fomat v3 ?
<maxb> To enable use of it? Have a debian/source/format that contains "3.0 (quilt)" or "3.0 (native)"
<shadeslayer> maxb: thats what i have :P
<maxb> Right, the point was just that "the one with debian/source/format" doesn't actually say anything
<geser> shadeslayer: no need for get-orig-source in this case (see point 4 in http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/DebSrc3.0)
<NorthernLights> Hello all
<geser> Hi
<gubatron> Good day, who can I talk to to include a package in the official Ubuntu repository? I'm a member of the FrostWire Development team and we've finished gathering all the requirements asked from us on launchpad.net https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/94011/comments/27
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 94011 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Frostwire" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<BlackZ> gubatron: why don't you want to get it in debian directly?
<gubatron> BlackZ that'd be even better
<BlackZ> gubatron: well, start by reading http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/welcome
<gubatron> (I'm fairly new to the process, per your suggestion I understand that it'd make it also to ubuntu users if it got it there)
<gubatron> thanks BlackZ
<BlackZ> gubatron: you will get it in ubuntu however
<gubatron> BlackZ: does your last message mean we're gonna be in Ubuntu? (or only after we get in Debian)
<BlackZ> gubatron: if you will get it in debian it will be synced in ubuntu as well
<BlackZ> (from debian)
<gubatron> 10-4
<BlackZ> so I'd say after getting it in debian
<BlackZ> hm?
<gubatron> 10-4=acknowledged
<carstenh> gubatron: do you want to maintain the software yourself or do you want that someone different takes care of the package?
<gubatron> carstenh: we can mantain it ourselves, we have done it so we can package everything (.deb binary and .deb sources) in one step whenever we have a new release.
<carstenh> gubatron: how do you build the package? normaly there is a .dsc file that is being generated whilst building
<gubatron> we build it using dpkg
<gubatron> (and a lot of bash and ant before the dpkg)
<carstenh> the bash is where?
<carstenh> +script
<carstenh> (i don't want a url)
<gubatron> yeah, it's a script that copies all the sources from our codebase and all the sources from all the GPL third party libraries we need
<carstenh> gubatron: do you run ubuntu?
<carstenh> currently
<gubatron> then it packages everything into a .tar.gz and then we create a file structure that represents how it all will be uncompressed once isntalled. Yes I run ubuntu (and debian)
<gubatron> right now, ubuntu
<carstenh> good, please run apt-get build-dep pal as root (might require sudo before apt-get)
<carstenh> then apt-get install devscripts
<carstenh> (i try to show you how rebuilding a package should work since you are doing it wrong)
<carstenh> and tell me when these commands have finished
<gubatron> I get E: Unable to find a source package for frostwire-src-4.20.6.noarch.deb (so I must be doing it wrong), will read about the devscripts
<carstenh> why don't you run the commands I told you?
<gubatron> fetching (thought I had to replace pal > mypackage), sorry
<carstenh> don't think ;)
<gubatron> lol
<gubatron> k done
<carstenh> now run as normal user (without sudo): apt-get source pal
<gubatron> done
<carstenh> oh, wait
<carstenh> wrong command, at least I should think ...
<carstenh> sudo apt-get build-dep hnb
<carstenh> and then as user: dget http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/h/hnb/hnb_1.9.18-7.dsc
<carstenh> dpkg-source -x hnb_1.9.18-7.dsc
<carstenh> cd hnb-1.9.18
<carstenh> dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot
<carstenh> cd ..
<carstenh> ls
<gubatron> [compiling...]
<gubatron> done
<carstenh> now you see that you have gererated a deb file for hnb
<gubatron> hnb_1.9.18-7_amd64.deb
<carstenh> every package in ubuntu or debian must be buildable using these commands
<carstenh> find :)
<carstenh> fine :)
<gubatron> got you
<carstenh> so, your homework is: make this work for frostwire (except the apt-get build-dep part, you need to install your build dependencies by hand since the package is not yet in ubuntu)
<carstenh> before this has been done nobody can review your package
<gubatron> thank you very much, this clarifies a lot of questions we had
<carstenh> you can delete the downloaded pal and hnb files now
<carstenh> gubatron: lintian is very helpful to find errors in the package, after you made this dget some/url/whatever.dsc part work and build the package locally you should run lintian -I -E --pedantic *.changes to see packaging errors and warnings
<carstenh> (or without options to see the more major ones if the list is very long)
<fabrice_sp> How can I check what is "default-mta"? a package in Debian has been changed to replace exim4 by default-mta
<fabrice_sp> I don't find it in p.u.c
<carstenh> fabrice_sp: which package?
<fabrice_sp> capisuite
<fabrice_sp> I mean, the diff between Ubuntu and Debian is that Ubutnu is using default-mta
<carstenh> exim4-daemon-light provides default-mta in debian, this is a virtual package
<carstenh> when debian switches to postfix only exim4-daemon-light and postfix need to be adapted
<carstenh> I would just sync the debian package
<fabrice_sp> how can I check which package provides default-mta in Ubuntu?
<carstenh> apt-cache showpkg default-mta
<fabrice_sp> thx ;-)
<carstenh> otoh, Maintainer: Debian QA Group <packages@qa.debian.org> ...
<carstenh> find a sponsor and do a upload in debian? :)
<fabrice_sp> you said sponsor?! :-)
<DktrKranz> s-p-o-n-s-o-r is better? :)
<carstenh> fabrice_sp: I'm not here ... but ask me tomorrow if you plan to prepare a qa-upload in debian
<carstenh> (unless someone else is faster)
<fabrice_sp> cool :-)
<fabrice_sp> hmm, it seems that DktrKranz is interested ;-)
<carstenh> . o O ( motu is the new debian qa )
<fabrice_sp> well, we have a lot in common
<fabrice_sp> like trying to maintain unmaintained packages :-)
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp: I'm currently breaking dak with my code, so I don't think I survive this night :P
<fabrice_sp> lol
<DktrKranz> it works so far, but who knows? :)
<ajmitch> DktrKranz: noone uses dak though, right?
<DktrKranz> ajmitch: nobody except some old-timer DDs, some mid-timer DDs and some new-timer DDs
<Laney> needs moar Launchpad
<DktrKranz> go and tell Ganneff ;)
<ajmitch> then everything would be sweetness & ponies :)
<DktrKranz> ponies!
 * geser gives ajmitch http://loldebian.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/pony-small1.png
<ajmitch> heh
<MTecknology>  [FAILEDTOUPLOAD]  Failed to upload  on ........
<MTecknology> What causes this?
<MTecknology> oh...
<shadeslayer_> :P
<jpds> MTecknology: log?
<MTecknology> jpds: it was a newer version thing
<Laney> 22/06 23:27:58 <MTecknology> jpds: it was a newer version thing
<Laney> >> (22/06 23:31:12) (Laney[+i]) (11:#ubuntu-motu[+Ccnz]) (211 nicks (@0 %0 +0 211))
<Laney> >> (1=1 |#crumbs    2=2 |#php       3=3 |#short.bus 4=4 |#haskell   5=5 |#toast~ers 6=6 |#debian-uk 7=7 |#relax     8=8 |#deb~n-cli 9=9 |#agda
<Laney> 22/06 23:27:58 <MTecknology> jpds: it was a newer version thing
<Laney> >> (22/06 23:31:12) (Laney[+i]) (11:#ubuntu-motu[+Ccnz]) (211 nicks (@0 %0 +0 211))
<Laney> >> (1=1 |#crumbs    2=2 |#php       3=3 |#short.bus 4=4 |#haskell   5=5 |#toast~ers 6=6 |#debian-uk 7=7 |#relax     8=8 |#deb~n-cli 9=9 |#agda
<Laney> 22/06 23:27:58 <MTecknology> jpds: it was a newer version thing
<jpds> Laney: Righto.
<Laney> >> (22/06 23:31:12) (Laney[+i]) (11:#ubuntu-motu[+Ccnz]) (211 nicks (@0 %0 +0 211))
<Laney> >> (1=1 |#crumbs    2=2 |#php       3=3 |#short.bus 4=4 |#haskell   5=5 |#toast~ers 6=6 |#debian-uk 7=7 |#relax     8=8 |#deb~n-cli 9=9 |#agda
<Laney> argh
<Laney> erase that from your eyes
<jpds> What has been seen, cannot be unseen.
<jpds> Although... your first window sounds fitting.
 * Laney #relax-es
 * ajmitch sees spam
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-23
<jono> what is the best wiki page to read that outlines the quality checks that are made for new packages in Ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> Laney: Haskell page on the wiki says I should ask you: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50767019/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-armel.haskell-testpack_2.0.0-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Laney> tumbleweed: you need to rebuild those dependencies
<tumbleweed> Laney: I was guessing as much
<Laney> you might find http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/haskell-installability/armel.png useful
<Laney> but if you're just fixing stuff off the FTBFS list then I'd ignore Haskell things for now
<tumbleweed> Laney: no that was an upload of mine
<tumbleweed> I can have a prod at the dependancies
<Laney> cool
<Laney> i should chase down those haskell merges
<Laney> http://pastebin.ca/1888897
<jpds> Laney: Dude, that thing killed X.
<Laney> You need a better X!
<jpds> Here's some big .png's from me: http://people.canonical.com/~jpds/mirrors/
<lifeless> morning jpds
<jpds> Evening lifeless.
<lifeless> jono: I'm not sure there is one.
<jono> lifeless, thats what I thought
<lifeless> jono: there are two basic checks: 'package is good' - which is the union of all quality guidelines.
<lifeless> so a page just listing it would be a) huge and b) out of date on day 2.
<Laney> jono: will try to reply to your mail tomorrow
<lifeless> the second check is 'package copyright and license are documented well enough [and compatible with the suite they are going to be put into'
<lifeless> which is actually conceptually redundant with the first check (and package merges from $source [e.g.] upstream *really should* check this hasn't changed, its a bit of a hole at the moment.
<lifeless> jono: ^
<jono> Laney, awesome, I am just writing another change and merging in mdz's comments
<EzraR> anyone want to revu a package :) should be an easy review allready has one akk
<NorthernLights> Hi there
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning Daniel.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<didrocks> hyperair: Laney: FYI, I will make some packaging changes to Banshee (enabling some plugin by default and make some patch), the idea is to experiment there and once stabilized (I hope in one week approximately), I will sum up changes that should be upstreamed and those which make sense to Debian as well. Does it sound ok?
<hyperair> where is there?
<didrocks> hyperair: for now, my changes is just in a bzr branch, one sec
 * hyperair groans at the mention of bzr
<didrocks> hyperair: it's just easier in my system and make sense.
<didrocks> hyperair: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~didrocks/banshee/une-modif
<didrocks> hyperair: it's really small tweaking for now, mostly make it fit in non meego environment
<hyperair> didrocks: those look like changes that should be upstreamed immediately, to be honest.
<didrocks> hyperair: well, I'm not quite sure it's the definitive answer, that's why I want to test them before next banshee release, (I'm waiting for the last change I discussed in Banshee ML first). But I can post on both
<hyperair> post on both what?
<didrocks> hyperair: upload to ubuntu and propose them to upstream
<hyperair> i'd prefer you propose them upstream first, then upload to ubuntu.
<didrocks> hyperair: well, that's the same in a question of 10 minutes delay, but if this matters to you
<hyperair> i'm rather apprehensive about having Ubuntu's Banshee package fork from Debian at all, and to a slightly lesser extent, about having Debian's package fork from upstream at all.
<hyperair> in fact, i'd propose you do all this testing in a PPA, rather than putting it into maverick directly.
<didrocks> hyperair: well, the only change I think that you want in Debian is enabling the import from ~/Music and ~/Video by default
<didrocks> hyperair: well, maverick is unstable
<didrocks> hyperair: I don't see why those changes who works shouldn't go to maverick
<didrocks> but ok, I'll post my patches upstream and upload the changes to ubuntu
<hyperair> just a question.. exactly what changes are you planning to include?
<hyperair> importing of ~/Music and ~/Video by default is something i wouldn't condone.
<hyperair> a prompt would be good
<hyperair> i think it was mentioned on the mailing list
<hyperair> "Do you want to import .... "
<didrocks> hyperair: yeah, and I gave some answer to them. Prompts are ugly on first launch
<didrocks> hyperair: for the changes, did you see my branch ^
<hyperair> but importing automatically is getting ahead of yourself.
<hyperair> i saw 5 commits, but i'm thinking you might have other changes in mind?
<hyperair> i'm asking about all the *planned* changes, not just the ones you've already done so far.
<didrocks> hyperair: just the notification think we discussed on IRC. It's really small things, as said
<didrocks> and enabling import by default
<hyperair> notification?
<hyperair> what notification?
<didrocks> hyperair: the "your list of music is empty, if you want to fill it up, please use the import or drop in â¦"
<hyperair> er, isn't that kind of redundant with importing from ~/Music and ~/Videos by default?
<hyperair> or do you mean it as a mutually exclusive thing?
<didrocks> hyperair: not really, because if you activate importing from ~/Music and ~/Videos by default and you don't have music there
<didrocks> you should be told where to put your music
<hyperair> i get the feeling i'd be really annoyed if i tried banshee for the first time and it immediately imported my ~/Music and ~/Videos immediately.
<hyperair> i'd be happier if it popped up the import dialog on first run though
<didrocks> hyperair: really? prompting has been defeated. Do you remember amarok in KDE3?
<hyperair> i remember using the old amarok, ages ago.
<didrocks> it went to an extense "which DB do you want to use"
<hyperair> that was ridiculous.
<didrocks> right, I think for most of people telling where your music should be imported is the same
<hyperair> but amarok lost many amarok1.* users
<hyperair> i've seen many amarok 1.* users jumping over to banshee
<hyperair> because they hate amarok2.
<hyperair> doesn't that say something to you?
<didrocks> well, I switched to rhythmbox :)
<didrocks> at the time
<RAOF> But amarok2 drastically changed the UI, and was broken for ages, wasn't it?
<hyperair> and does rhythmbox automatically import ~/Music and ~/Videos without letting the user know?
<hyperair> i don't think so.
<hyperair> at least, i don't remember rhythmbox doing something like that, or i'd have held a strong grudge against it
<didrocks> hyperair: we are discussing doing that as well
<RAOF> hyperair: Why?  As long as it defaults to not touching the files, why would you _not_ want an audio file in ~/Music to be in your Banshee DB?
<hyperair> RAOF: because importing is a CPU and I/O intensive process that is likely to slow down the computer and i don't want it to be doing something like that without my knowledge.
<didrocks> I still think this is the goal of Ubuntu: making things easy to the user, and have something ready out of the box
<RAOF> It wouldn't be without your knowledge, though - it'd say âimporting filesâ
<hyperair> didrocks: i'd rather you talk to upstream *properly* and come to a consensus about this before pulling something like this.
<RAOF> While you can _technically_ use Banshee without having a local library, it's fundamentally a media library program and deliberately not having media listed in the library seems strange.
<hyperair> RAOF: some people (like me) have focus prevention on which makes new windows appear behind the currently focused windows.
<didrocks> hyperair: why? does GNOME upstream decide about distro app by default, for instance?
<hyperair> RAOF: this means banshee will appear behind what i'm currently working on, and then will cause my computer to slow down and have weird hangs here and there, and i will be wondering wtf is going on, until i start conky and seeing banshee consume 100% of my CPU and 100% of my I/O.
<hyperair> or top, or gnome system monitor, for that matter.
<hyperair> didrocks: that's a different matter, imo
<didrocks> I disagree, that's not different, we change also a lot of gconf settings and debian does in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/
<hyperair> didrocks: and banshee upstream has already taken statistics, and found that most of the Banshee users are Ubuntu users. we're talking about moer than 50% here, somewhere around 70%.
<hyperair> didrocks: this means they will be willing to compromise, and listen to anything Ubuntu has to say
<hyperair> which also means we shouldn't push them away and introduce changes like this.
<didrocks> hyperair: I can engage the discussion on the import by default settings, but for me, it's still a setting
<hyperair> it will cause unnecessary drift between Ubuntu and upstream Banshee.
<hyperair> then please do engage in the discussion. if upstream really doesn't agree, and the desktop team decides that it's better for all media players to automatically import on first run, then let's consider a downstream patch.
<didrocks> hyperair: I'm preparing an email on banshee ML right now
<hyperair> okay
<superm1> hyperair, importing doesn't have to be CPU intensive or IO intensive though
<hyperair> superm1: i think it's a bug filed on banshee somewhere.
<RAOF> Well, it's probably going to be a bit I/O intensive.
<hyperair> superm1: but for huge ~/Music (20G+) folders, which i'm sure many have, Banshee will need to scan for all media files, read their tags, optionally perform Mirage's scanning and BPM detection....
<hyperair> it's going to be both CPU and I/O intensive.
<superm1> that's not to say that can't be improved though with lower priority threads
<RAOF> But it's not going to perform mirage scanning or bpm detection because they've just started up, and neither of those are enabled by default.
<hyperair> our dear Completely Fair Scheduler has a habit of making X's cursor motion lag during heavy CPU of even processes/threads with high nice values.
<hyperair> RAOF: doesn't it perform those when importing music?
<RAOF> hyperair: Only when they're enabled.
<RAOF> We're talking about import on first launch - there's no way the user could have enabled them yet.
<hyperair> RAOF: ah, they're not enabled by default then?
 * hyperair has forgotten
<RAOF> Not enabled by default, no :)
<hyperair> i see.
<hyperair> well then that just leaves the heavy I/O of staring at the tags and recording them in the sqlite DB.
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> I'm not convinced that anyone's going to start up banshee for the /first time/ and leave it running in the background.
 * hyperair shrugs.
<hyperair> maybe not, but i'd still be happier to see something like...
<RAOF> I mean, sure - we should ensure that the IO problem is minimised.
 * RAOF heads livingroomward for bonus gas fire.
<superm1> RAOF, what was that i saw murmured about hotplugging vga and intel the other day?
<hyperair> how about when banshee's collection is empty, the treeview widget gets disabled and on top of it, a message that says "Your collection is empty. Do you want to import media?"
<hyperair> something like how DAAP shares which can't be connected to get a message
<didrocks> hyperair: still not sure, not ready "out of the box"
<RAOF> Yeah, I think that would be a good idea.  It would be nicer if Banshee saw âhey, you've got audio files in ~/Music - I'm guessing that's your musicâ, though.
<hyperair> RAOF: yeah, that's exactly what i'm thinking about.
<didrocks> oh, btw, I just tried meego during we were discussing, there are enabling the pluginâ¦ I was thinking it was upstream banshee who made the tweaks, isn't it?
<hyperair> didrocks: next you'll be telling me that mail clients shouldn't require account setup, but should automatically read the user's mind for usernames and passwords and automatically fetch mail.
<RAOF> superm1: It works, and with the new xserver TheMuso sponsored for me it won't freeze compiz, either!
<didrocks> hyperair: you are not being positive there.
<hyperair> didrocks: i'm putting things in perspective.
<superm1> RAOF, oooh purdy.  is it done in a nice way that other drivers will be able to add the functionality too?
<RAOF> hyperair: If there was a ~/this-is-my-email-setup I totally _would_ expect email programs to read that on startup.
<didrocks> there is no way to guess your email account
<RAOF> superm1: nouveau already supports it, and I'm pretty sure radeon does, too.
<didrocks> but there are for your music and video
<superm1> RAOF, awesome!
<hyperair> didrocks: okay, another example. you know how chromium prompts for importing of data from firefox/any other browser on your system?
<hyperair> didrocks: in your case, it would *automatically* do that, without prompting.
<superm1> on some hardware i've seen fglrx blob do something like that too, but it was probably cheating since it gets to leave a daemon running
<didrocks> hyperair: this is because your are transitionning from one software to another
<didrocks> hyperair: if I use rhythmbox
<didrocks> and banshee propose me to import the rhythmbox collection
<didrocks> that would make sense
<RAOF> superm1: the kernel modules now trigger uevents on input hotplug, and the DDX is able to catch them.
<hyperair> didrocks: it just seems to me like more consistent behaviour to follow the same first-time-running procedure for all use cases, whether the user has previously used rhythmbox, amarok, itunes, or not.
<didrocks> hyperair: I clearly disagree on that point and it seems we won't reach an agreement there :/
<hyperair> didrocks: so that when banshee first starts up, it brings up the first time running dialogue, which asks if the user wants to: i) import music from some other player, ii) import music from ~/Music
<didrocks> do you imagine if every software would do that?
<didrocks> a prompt at startup
<didrocks> or worse, the "hint of the day" :-)
<hyperair> a hint of the day is useless, imo, and can't really compare to this.
<RAOF> hyperair: Apart from the IO issue, is there any other reason why you wouldn't want to have ~/Music in your banshee db?
<hyperair> didrocks: okay, supposing that i did transition from Rhythmbox to Banshee, but my ~/.rhythmbox or whatever it is, isn't in a standard location, say an old /home directory which isn't /home any more.  Banshee starts up for the first time and immediately begins importing everything. what i'll need to do is cancel the importing, and then use the import media dialogue to specify that other location.
<didrocks> hyperair: seems a more advanced use case to me
<didrocks> hyperair: we are trying to adress the daily computer user, non geek one
<didrocks> this one will use the default folder by default, that's why they are there
<hyperair> didrocks: i understand that, but while we are trying to address the daily computer user, we end up creating loops for the geek ones to follow.
<didrocks> hyperair: is it so much overhead?
<didrocks> otherwise, we can propose installing GNOME or openbox if we want to go down the path :)
<RAOF> But we're not talking about automatically importing ~/.rhythmbox; we're talking about ~/Music.
<hyperair> RAOF: automatically importing ~/Music instead of ~/.rhythmbox makes rhythmbox->banshee users, which there will inevitably be, if Ubuntu switches to Banshee as default, lose all their ratings, play and skip counts.
<hyperair> RAOF: that won't be pretty.
<didrocks> hyperair: for people upgrading, they still have rhythmbox, we don't remove apps by default
<didrocks> hyperair: it's for UNE users btw, not desktop ones
<RAOF> hyperair: What happens if users then import their Rhythmbox library?
<RAOF> IE: is there any reason why they couldn't later on import their Rhythmbox library, and have their ratings, play, and skip counts merged into the Banshee db?
<directhex> FWIW rhythmbox imports my stuff by default. but i think it does ~
<hyperair> RAOF: i dunno, i've never attempted.
<didrocks> hyperair: did you try the banshee indicator in your previous upload? it doesn't work
<hyperair> didrocks: eh? the one i just did hours ago?
<didrocks> hyperair: right, I was hoping your rebuild with new -cli fixes it as you uploaded it
<hyperair> no i didn't test it on maverick
<didrocks> oh okâ¦
<hyperair> didrocks: could you file a bug?
<didrocks> hyperair: sure
<hyperair> or maybe reopen the bug that was closed by that upload..
<hyperair> no on second thoughts a new bug would be better
<hyperair> didrocks: could i see the output of "banshee --debug"?
<didrocks> hyperair: ok, will do :) btw, why do you enable lirc by default only on ubuntu
<didrocks> sure, one sec
<hyperair> didrocks: because the build-deps aren't satisfied on debian.
<hyperair> didrocks: i remember poking someone about lirc on debian,  but he seemed to run into problem after problem trying to get lirc updated on debian. something about the debian team not acting, or something.
<didrocks> hyperair: http://paste.ubuntu.com/453811/
<didrocks> hyperair: ok, make sense
<hyperair> didrocks: is that all that's mentioned? or is there any more?
<didrocks> hyperair: no, even with --debug
<hyperair> hmm
<didrocks> (when I activate the indicator extension)
<hyperair> well file a bug and subscribe qense to it then =)
<didrocks> ok :)
<huats> morning
<shadeslayer_> huats: hey
<eagles0513875> shadeslayer_: poke
<dholbach_> can I persuade somebody to give a session at Ubuntu Developer Week? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep is the preliminary schedule
<Rhonda> I got a mail that wesnoth-1.8 got accepted into karmic-backports, but rmadison doesn't show it yet, neither packages.ubuntu.com?
<wgrant> Rhonda: It's in NEW.
<wgrant> So you probably didn't get an email of acceptance.
<Rhonda> I got a Fix Released launchpad notice.
<Rhonda> I thought that would mean release. :)
<Philip5> is it possible somehow to set at ie [i386] rule in a packagename.install file to controll if a file should be installed on [i386] but might not exist on [amd64]?
<Philip5> or do i have to installed the file from debian/rules?
<Philip5> anyone done this with .install files?
<ScottK> Rhonda: I just pushed it through source New.  It'll hit binary New again after it's built though.
<ScottK> Philip5: Something like this is done in kdebase-workspace for linux/non-linux architectures (Debian has non-linux architectures), so you might look at it for inspiration.
<Philip5> ScottK: i'll have a look... i thought it would be nicer to do it that way than moving files in rules
<Rhonda> ScottK: Ah, alright. :)
<ScottK> Philip5: It uses arch specific install files and you can see how they use them in debian/rules
<EricBa> Hello, is there a motu who has some time to review my package? It's already reviewed by one motu. My programm is a wallpaper changer for gnome. - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cortina It was already advocated by one reviewer.. so this won't take much time to review.
<Rhonda> Yet another wallpaper changer for gnome? :)
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: poke
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: not a good time, about to go to pub quiz
<shadeslayer_> sure
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: any idea when you will be back?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: ~11pm SAST
<shadeslayer_> ok
<EricBa> Rhonda: exactly this one ;) I dont wont to manage my program on sourceforge, softpedia,.. etc. It's hard to upload it to every side
<shadeslayer_> ok,since im using source format v3 i dont need a watch file right?
<Rhonda> What has watch file to do with source format v3?
<shadeslayer_> Rhonda: well i was advised not to use get-orig-source in rules,so im asking if i need a watch file
<Rhonda> watch file is about getting notifications about new upstream versions. I have no idea why this should be obsoleted with source format v3
<shadeslayer_> ok
<Rhonda> not use get-orig-source? Why not?
<shadeslayer_> <geser> shadeslayer_: have you thought about using v3 source format? that way you could use the upstream tar.bz2 as is (v3 gives you "You don't have to repack the upstream tarball to strip the debian directory." for free)
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: sounds sensible ^
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: ok.. so dont use get-orig-source,but i do need to add watch file
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: you always should have a watch file
<tumbleweed> (unless upstream doesn't have tarballs of any form)
<shadeslayer> ok
<Rhonda> shadeslayer: But from what I understand get-orig-source isn't only about repacking the upstream source but fetching too.
<Rhonda> Especially repacking usually doesn't produce the same hash, or do I completely misunderstand the target?
<Rhonda> repacking again, that is
<shadeslayer> Rhonda: do we prefer a patch system or can the patches be inline?
<Rhonda> Who is we - and I don't get your question.
<shadeslayer> Rhonda: we == Ubuntu packagers?
<Rhonda> patch system is always preferred to have the patches seperated
<shadeslayer> hmm ok
<shadeslayer> Rhonda: hmm : dpkg-source: error: LC_ALL="C" LANG="C" patch -s -t -F 0 -N -p1 -u -V never -g0 -E -b -B .pc/01_kubuntu_translate_patch.patch/ gave error exit status 1
<shadeslayer> more info http://pastebin.com/thnErWSu
<shadeslayer> btw i dont need : opts=dversionmangle=s/\+ds// \ since im not repacking source now,right?
<shadeslayer> im debian/watch
<shadeslayer> *in
 * shadeslayer wonders who will answer
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: correct (my quiz was cancelled)
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: idk if i should be happy or sad :P
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: ok,i have a patching error
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: http://shadeslayer.pastebin.com/qLULztwE
<shadeslayer> if i use patch -p0 <mypatch.patch , it works
<shadeslayer> hmm.. hold on .. i think i have to add the patch system to rules
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: quilt patches should be p1
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: anyways.. any idea what i should add in debian/rules to enable patches?
<tumbleweed> with source format 3, nothing. it happens automatically on dpkg-source -x
<shadeslayer> any idea on the error then?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: 19:09 < tumbleweed> shadeslayer: quilt patches should be p1
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: no so what do i do to correct it :P
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: do you know that the -p flag does?
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: no
<tumbleweed> it's the number of directories to strip off the front of every path in the patch file
<shadeslayer> ah ok
<shadeslayer> so i guess my patch is bad?
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: http://pastebin.com/upWBzryf
<tumbleweed> that's a simple patch, so you can just manually edit it. Add something random to the beginning of each path. i.e. a/ and b/
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: w00t
<shadeslayer> building in pbuilder and will upload
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: while you are waiting, look at this: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<shadeslayer> ok
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: thanks for all the help ;)
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: i fixed this issue earlier,but dont remember now : http://shadeslayer.pastebin.com/7gVvaLVK
<shadeslayer> how to fix it
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: so, where does the contents of the .changes file come from?
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: uh.. from debuild?
<tumbleweed> no, I mean where does it get the contents that it puts in there from?
<geser> Changed-By is the from the last changelog entry
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: hmm.. debian/changelog
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: so, look at that error, and the changelog, and see if you can see why you are getting it
<shadeslayer> hmm... cant see why its giving that
<tumbleweed> how is your change signed off in the changelog? paste that line
<geser> can you paste the line from your changelog entry beginning with " --"?
<shadeslayer> geser:  -- Rohan Garg <me@gmail.com>  Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:56:42 +0530
<geser> hmm
<shadeslayer> geser: ill remove the changelog and create a new one
<shadeslayer> geser: is it necessary to do dep3 ?
<geser> it's no requirement, but it has some advantages and some people like to see the dep3 headers on patches
 * shadeslayer doesnt want to do more additions/changes  :P
<shadeslayer> geser: and its still complaining about the chages
<shadeslayer> *changes
<geser> hmm
<shadeslayer> geser: im uploading it,i think lintian has gone mad :P
<shadeslayer> apart from that there are other lintian errors that can be ignored.. binary without manpage stuff....
<shadeslayer> geser: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8334
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: ^^
<RainCT> didrocks: Hey
<RainCT> didrocks: I've created https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~zeitgeist-packagers
<sebner> RainCT: tell him to switch to dh7 or I'm gonna cry :P
<RainCT> sebner: lol. It is hd7 in Debian :)
<RainCT> *dh7
<sebner> didrocks: don't be such a backboy and sync with Debian!
 * sebner hugs RainCT 
<sebner> *badboy even
<sebner> xD
<RainCT> sebner: Don't you have something more interesting to do than to check whether packages use dh7 or not? ;)
<sebner> RainCT: pfff, don't be mean, I noticed the 0.4 upload to maverick and since it's your baby I took a look :P
<RainCT> :)
<didrocks> sebner: I've proposed to comaintained in Debian :)
<didrocks> RainCT: thanks for the team btw
<sebner> didrocks: cool .. then you are forced to use dh7 too \o/ :P
<didrocks> sebner: well, I used dh7 for some packages. Knowing that I'll synced soon zg again with debian, (0.4.1 I hope), I didn't investigate on the merge now :)
<RainCT> didrocks: Np, thanks for your help :)
 * RainCT hopes sebner doesn't remember that half of my packages still use CDBS :P
<didrocks> RainCT: btw, if you are not aware: bug #597687
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597687 in zeitgeist (Ubuntu) "[MIR] zeitgeist" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597687
<didrocks> well, cdbs isn't so bad :)
<RainCT> Yeah, it rocks (until it fails awfully and you don't know why :)). But dh7 is much nicer.
<sebner> didrocks: hahaaha, good joke. Haven't laughed that much in a while :D
<sebner> RainCT: I do ;)
<RainCT> dkd
<RainCT> * didrocks: Yep seen the MIR. Awesome :D.     Although now this is my second package moving into main :/
<didrocks> RainCT: you're not a core-dev? you should upload for per package upload
<didrocks> apply*
<didrocks> sebner: really, GNOME lives with it for so long :)
<didrocks> sebner: it just habits, most of the time, but yeah, dh7 is clean
<sebner> didrocks: one of the most sad things, right
<didrocks> sebner: we have also to do port the strip translations/desktop.in to dh7
<didrocks> but in any case, we will just follow debian packaging, won't create a diff on merge for that
<sebner> didrocks: heh, nice. Long long time ago I also wanted to get involved with gnome-packages. After looking at the packages, especially the rules file I decided: "Before I touch this, I'm gonna die" :P
<RainCT> By the way, is there anyone maintaining DistUtilsExtra?
<didrocks> sebner: that's because you looked at gtk or glib :-)
<sebner> didrocks: pff, cdbs is cdbs. I just tell what's going on there and that scares me
<didrocks> RainCT: well, pitti is doing it most of the time, I still push some patchs from time to time and want to find more for annoying issues
<sebner> *can't tell
<RainCT> didrocks: I have a couple patches filed against the upstream project which are feeling very lonely :)
<didrocks> sebner: did you look at unity packages? they are not so complicated
<didrocks> RainCT: oh really?
 * didrocks opens the project view
<RainCT> Yep, not sure what they where though. I'd probably have some more but since those got ignored I didn't bother.
<didrocks> RainCT: you are talking about bug #510957 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 510957 in python-distuils-extra "build_i18n.py: add support for LINGUAS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510957
<sebner> didrocks: that's true but still ..
<didrocks> (just seeing this one)
<didrocks> sebner: for instance, we will in gnome run autoreconf for most of our package, it's one line in cdbs, I should have a look at how to do that in dh7
<RainCT> didrocks: Yup that's one (some Gentoo guy was asking us to move GNOME Activity Journal to autotools because of that -.-), the other is #503026 but I see it isn't a patch just the idea; I can write one if you're going to include it though
<RainCT> And I'll try to remember what the other stuff was ;)
<didrocks> RainCT: LINGUAS can be an environment variable too it seems?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: those two patches should be combined into one
<tumbleweed> they're the same thing
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: ok.. btw im doing some more work :)
<shadeslayer> on the package...
<tumbleweed> bonus points for a DEP3 header
<shadeslayer> hehe :)
<shadeslayer> will do :P
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: any other issues?
 * tumbleweed looks
<shadeslayer> still have no idea why im getting the changes issues
<tumbleweed> description is a bit weird
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: yeah correcting that as well :P
<shadeslayer> modified debian/docs as well
<tumbleweed> btw quilt patches don't need numbers, the order is defined by debian/patches/series
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: ah ok..
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: watch file isnt working for now :P
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: not that it matters, but you forgot to escape the final . in the watch file
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: uh.. what?
<tumbleweed> it's a regex, so a literal . should be written as \.
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: http://qipmsg.googlecode.com/files/qipmsg-(.*)\.tar.bz2
<tumbleweed> http://qipmsg.googlecode.com/files/qipmsg-(.*)\.tar\.bz2
<NorthernLights> Hello all
<shadeslayer> ah
<shadeslayer> NorthernLights: hi
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: you probably want to use http://googlecode.debian.net/p/qipmsg/qipmsg-(.*)\.tar\.bz2
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: thats a 404
<RainCT> didrocks, sebner: Sorry, my network card was being stupid. What did I miss?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: that's not how watch files work. read uscan's man page
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: http://googlecode.debian.net/p/qipmsg does not 404
<didrocks> RainCT: nothing, I saw that you quit :) I've merge your LINGUAS change btw
<didrocks> sorry it took so long
<sebner> RainCT: nothing (?) , my network broke down too xD
<RainCT> lol
<RainCT> didrocks: Cool thanks.
<didrocks> oh, that's why it was so quiet :)
 * didrocks kidding
<didrocks> RainCT: you're welcome, thanks for the patch
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: ah ok
<tumbleweed> NorthernLights: I see you posted your synergy+ to debian-mentors@d.o. did you subscribe to the mailing list? (you got at least one reply)
<NorthernLights> yep
<NorthernLights> I answered
<NorthernLights> and invited upstream to comment on it
<tumbleweed> NorthernLights: good answer. I was hoping someone would ask you that question
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: oh, um, any reason why you ignored W: qipmsg: extra-license-file usr/share/doc/qipmsg/Copying.txt.gz
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: i removed that
<shadeslayer> from debian/docs
<tumbleweed> cool
<shadeslayer> im sure of it
<shadeslayer> no i mean i removed it before the upload
<didrocks> nigelb: do you want to rebase the debdiff you posted for bug #111939 or could I just integrate the patch?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 111939 in One Hundred Paper Cuts "Not possible to alt-tab during a drag-and-drop operation" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111939
<didrocks> nigelb: I can do it very quickly, so if you don't mind, I can just copy mcclasen patch and rebase to the last version
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: btw the 2 patches modify 2 different files
<shadeslayer> how do i combine them?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: but they depend on each other. They exist to fix the same problem
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: how do they depend on each other
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: one corrects a spelling mistake, one corrects the translation for the same spelling mistake
<shadeslayer> ah
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: hint: it's the upstream's makefile that's installing Copying.txt it also installs another file you don't need
<geser> shadeslayer: why not make 1 patch from those two?
<fabrice_sp> Is there a page somewhere with the number of package I sponsored?
<geser> not that I know of
<tumbleweed> geser: yeah that's what I'm suggesting he do
<fabrice_sp> geser, ok. I'll check with the launchpad API, because it seems that the data is there
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: btw, did you read zaytsev's reasoning in Bug #565826
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565826 in Baltix "Sync mc 4.7.0.6-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565826
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, nop. Let me check
<geser> fabrice_sp: I guess you would be faster with greping the -changes archive for your name in Signed-By
<fabrice_sp> geser, I did that, but actually, I also got all packages I uploaded, and not only the ones I sponsored
<fabrice_sp> someone made some script to extract the same info from udd for Debian
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, what is your opinion about keeping or not the patch? It seems that it can be dropped
<fabrice_sp> but the bug report was really that people anted mcedit to be the default at intall time
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: yeah. it'll irritate the odd person, but they can change it at least
<fabrice_sp> s/anted/wanted/
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, yeah: it doesn't seems to be worth keeping the diff
<tumbleweed> ok, I'll ack it
<Rhonda> shadeslayer: dversionmangle=s/\+ds// removes the string +ds from the Debian version for comparison. Not sure what that would represent, might be debian source, and then it's only used when stuff got removed from the tarball, not for a simple repack from .tar.bz2 to .tar.gz or similar.
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: "debian source" yes
 * NorthernLights still tries to ask for a REVU review ;)  . For packages synergy-plus and kill-rogues. Thanks!
<NorthernLights> s/kill-rogues/killrogues
<tumbleweed> NorthernLights: not waiting to see whether the merge-into-synergy route will work out?
<NorthernLights> tumbleweed, i don't how that will go but i'd still like to know what's my package worth.
<tumbleweed> looks like that won't be quick anyway...
<NorthernLights> yep
<NorthernLights> if it goes into a lenghy conversation with synergy author i'll say that proves we need synergy+, even if temporarily
<NorthernLights> we still can make a transitional package of synergy laster
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: Never had the need to do that, gladly. :)
<NorthernLights> later
<micahg> is there a trick for regenerating a control file for another version of Ubuntu from Lucid (i.e. w/a debian/control target in debian/rules) or do you need to be in a chroot?
<tumbleweed> micahg: generating control files from rules is ugly
<soren> micahg: There's nothing version specific in debian/control.
<tumbleweed> the version comes from changelog
<micahg> soren: there's a control.in file
<micahg> I was just wondering if this is a general thing or more specific to the pacakge I'm working with openjdk
<tumbleweed> micahg: what problem are you trying to solve?
<micahg> tumbleweed: I need to regenerate the control file for jaunty and karmic from the lucid build (it's possible, I just don't know how)
<soren> micahg: ...which generates a control file which doesn't have anything series specific in it.
<micahg> soren: yes, but what needs to be in there *is* series specific due to stuff in debian/rules
<soren> micahg: The only reference to series is in the changelog and the changes file.
<ajmitch> different xulrunner dependencies?
<micahg> soren: nm, I'll just go ask dokko
<micahg> *soko
<micahg> *doko
<soren> micahg: Can you explain what it is that needs to vary depending on series?
<anoteng> anybody know if dh_python2 is in maverick?
<micahg> soren: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~openjdk/openjdk/openjdk6/annotate/head:/rules
<tumbleweed> anoteng: not yet
<anoteng> mkay, guess I'll have to install sid thenâ¦
<soren> micahg: Yikes.
<soren> micahg: That's all I have to say.
<micahg> soren: right :)
<ScottK> anoteng: It's only partly in.  It will be shortly.
<jono_> Laney, ping?
<gaston_> can anyone tell me where can I find the .deb files naming convention?
<gaston_> I can't find it in the MOTU wiki, thank you
<tumbleweed> gaston_: the debian policy manual covers some of it
<gaston_> ok, found that, thanks
<jono> Laney, ping?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-24
<alket> Hi
<alket> What does MOTU do ?
<arand> !motu
<ubottu> motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<alket> So what do you do, i mean how do you maintain them, where do you find them ?
 * arand is not a motu by the way...
<alket> anyone ?
<arand> alket: Mainly packages comes from debian, some patching/merging is done if necessary, and they're stuck in ubuntu, or a new *upstream* version is taken into ubuntu and merged into the current packaging, or a whole new application is packaged from scratch... For general details, the wiki would likely be the place, ubuntu, or debian's which should be more exhaustive I gues..
<alket> thankyou arand
<arand> And as you may have noticed, this is one of the more quiet times for this channel..
<alket> this is actually my third time over a long time
<alket> I always wanted to get involved in something for ubuntu
<alket> never had a right place
<lfaraone> could someone take a look at this diagram I generated about the versioning/basing of a debian/ubuntu/ppa package? It's at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/103749/loadupp.svg
<micahg> lfaraone: usually a good idea to use 1~ppa1 instead of 1ppa1 in case a sync is possible
<lfaraone> micahg: would'nt ~ppa1 mean that the -1 would trump?
<micahg> lfaraone: yep
<micahg> lfaraone: am I reading it wrong
<lfaraone> micahg: I mean "if this package is in the archives and you are making modifications to it"
 * micahg guesses he should have asked what modif means :)
<lfaraone> motdif == changes beyond a rebuild. release means a New Upstream Version.
<micahg> lfaraone: ah, than it looks fine, but I'm not officially a dev, so my opinion doesn't carry too much weight :)
<lfaraone> micahg: well, I'm officially a dev and I still am not sure. getting the magic hand logo on your LP profile doesn't grant you all knowledge of the universe, just the mastery of it :D
<ScottK> lfaraone: If you are taking an existing version, making changes to it, and putting it in a PPA, I usually us +ppa1 at the end.
<lfaraone> ScottK: okay. is +ppa1 better than ppa1? (since I've told the folks I've been mentoring to use the latter <_<;)
<ScottK> For #6 I'd call it 1.2-1ubuntu1~ppa1.
<ScottK> lfaraone: Functionally it's the same.  I think +ppa1 is clearer.
<micahg> anyone care to sponsor a no source change rebuild for gjs?
<lfaraone> micahg: sure. rationale?
<lfaraone> and/or bug :D
<micahg> bug 597944 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597944 in gjs (Ubuntu) "libgjs needs a rebuild for xulrunner-1.9.2.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597944
<lfaraone> ScottK: for No-Change Rebuilds, I can just increment the debian revision part by "build1", so it'd read "-1ubuntu3build1", right?
<ScottK> lfaraone: If there's already an ubuntuX revision, just increment that.  Use -1ubuntu4.
<ScottK> The only reason to use XbuildY is the sync scripts know it's OK to sync over that.
<ScottK> If it's already got real changes, that's not relevant.
<nigelb> didrocks: I'm without my comp :( can you do it without me?
<dholbach> good morning
<coolbhavi> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi coolbhavi
<coolbhavi> hi dholbach
<micahg> dholbach: do you have time to sponsor a no source change rebuild?
<dholbach> micahg: on it already
<micahg> dholbach: wow, w//out a bug number even :)
<dholbach> micahg: I usually do a bit of sponsoring in my morning
<dholbach> micahg: so I just grabbed ~10 bugs and I'll work on them while reading up on other stuff
<micahg> dholbach: awesome, thanks, can you click the retry on gnome-shell after gjs builds?
<dholbach> micahg: can you remind me of it when gjs has built?
<dholbach> micahg: I usually don't keep track of builds and wait for them to happen
<micahg> dholbach: k, don't worry then, I'll just ping seb and let him know
<dholbach> or just ask in here once gjs has built
<dholbach> any motu or core-dev should be able to do it
<dholbach> rock on micahg
 * micahg will send an email...
<didrocks> nigelb: sure, will do, no worry :)
<nigelb> didrocks: So sorry I can't help with it. My motherboard got fried :/
<didrocks> nigelb: no pb, it's quite easy, I'll do it ;) hope you will find another motherboard soon
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is sun-java6-jdk update 20 available with hardy 8.04 server ?
<jmarsden> kaushal: use rmadison to find out... looks like it to me... rmadison -s hardy-updates sun-java6-jdk    says:    sun-java6-jdk | 6.20dlj-0ubuntu1.8.04 | hardy-updates/multiverse | amd64, i386
<kaushal> jmarsden: can i install rmadison ?
<kaushal> which package contains rmadison ?
<jmarsden> devscripts
<kaushal> ok
<jmarsden> kaushal: To answer the question "what package contains file X" use http://packages.ubuntu.com/ and its "Search package contents" form.
<kaushal> jmarsden: sure
<kaushal> which repos contain sun-java6-jdk ?
<kaushal> is it multiverse or universe or main or restricted ?
<jmarsden> That answer is there in the rmadison output I quoted.
<kaushal> ok
<BlackZ> dholbach: could you be more clear for bug #597882 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597882 in ettercap (Ubuntu) "Please merge ettercap 1:0.7.3-2 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597882
<dholbach> BlackZ: you forgot to merge a portion in debian/rules
<dholbach> BlackZ: the 'cp ...' calls in debian/rules are now missing
<dholbach> BlackZ: the result is that they are not installed in the resulting package any more
<dholbach> BlackZ: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50821473/merge.debdiff does not touch debian/rules at all
<BlackZ> dholbach: looking
<dholbach> Who could give a session on anything that a new developer would find useful at the next Ubuntu Developer Week?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep is the preliminary schedule
<dholbach> warp10, quadrispro, DktrKranz: ^ a job for the Italian mafia? :)
<warp10> ehy dholbach! Is this an offer we can't refuse? :P
<dholbach> I hope so ;-)
 * dholbach hugs warp10
 * warp10 hugs back dholbach
<quadrispro> dholbach, I'm sorry but in this period I'm getting crazy with my exams...
<quadrispro> :(
 * quadrispro hugs everyone
<warp10> dholbach: well, maybe someone among DktrKranz, gaspa and me can arrange something
<dholbach> quadrispro: all the best with the exams then! when are they going to be?
<dholbach> warp10: that'd be awesome
<Rhonda> dholbach: I think you can count on me, I just haven't figured out what would be the best time for me, or started preparing anything. %-)
<quadrispro> on july
<dholbach> Rhonda: just pick a slot on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep then :-D
<quadrispro> until the end of July I'll be really, really, really, really [...] busy
<dholbach> quadrispro: all the best!
<quadrispro> I've planned to come to Berlin in August, but I don't know now
<quadrispro> thank you
<BlackZ> dholbach: fixed
<dholbach> quadrispro: let me know when you're there - I might be gone for parts of August, but maybe we can meet for a beer or something
<dholbach> BlackZ: I'm a bit busy now, but maybe I get a chance to have a look later on
<dholbach> BlackZ: somebody else might be quicker :)
<huats> morning
<BlackZ> hey huats
<huats> hello BlackZ
<quadrispro> dholbach, yep, thanks!
<DktrKranz> dholbach: it's not "Mafia", we consider ourselves "those @Roadhouse" (hi quadrispro!) ;)
<warp10> dholbach: could you elaborate about your proposal? What should we speak about, in details?
<quadrispro> ohhh! roadhouse...
<dholbach> warp10: anything you'd like really - the audience will be developers, but I guess primarily new contributors who are interested in development
<dholbach> warp10: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Previous shows sessions we had before
<dholbach> that might give you a few ideas
<BlackZ> roadhouse lol
<warp10> DktrKranz, gaspa: any idea?
<gaspa> warp10: let's try, come on ;)
<gaspa> ( nope, no idea :P )
<dholbach> hey gaspa
<dholbach> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs too
<warp10> gaspa: sad, but I appreciate the enthusiasm! :P
<gaspa>  hi dholbach ;)
<quadrispro> ohh, too many italians here
<gaspa> quadrispro: don't you appreciate ? ;)
<quadrispro> gaspa, No, I don't definitely :D
<warp10> quadrispro: come here between 16:00-18:00 today: you won't find any, I suppose :P
<quadrispro> warp10, you're right: I'll be watching TV, hoping to see a goal of Slovakia
<warp10> quadrispro: uh?
<gaspa> dholbach: uh, why deleted: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1001/BeautifulCode ?
 * gaspa was intereset :)
 * warp10 believes quadrispro has a bad fever or some kind of strange pathology
<gaspa> "interested"
<dholbach> gaspa: rockstar couldn't make it
<gaspa> ah, pity
<dholbach> rockstar could probably give it this time!
<gaspa> dholbach:  we (me and warp10) will sign for a slot, probably the last of one day... (20utc is quite suitable with family stuff)
<gaspa> about the topic, we'll submit one asap, ok?
<dholbach> gaspa: awesome - can you please block the slot you like already, so nobody else goes and takes it?
 * warp10 nodsa
<dholbach> thanks
 * warp10 nods*
<gaspa> :)
<gaspa> dholbach: after launch-time. ;) have to check agenda and such.
<dholbach> gaspa: alrightie
<warp10> gaspa: do you have an agenda?
<gaspa> warp10: yup, anna is my agenda ;)
<warp10> gaspa: yeah, I imagined it :P
<gaspa> dholbach: isn't there a harvest instance somewhere?
<dholbach> gaspa: no, we're working on the new one and we'll get it deployed soon
<dholbach> gaspa: http://code.launchpad.net/harvest
<dholbach> gaspa: it's a rewrite that will make more fun to use and work on
<gaspa> cool
<gaspa> ETA?
<dholbach> gaspa: I'm reviewing a big change by dylanmccall, a SoC student, then it'll be just "waiting on IS" :)
<dholbach> gaspa: but you can check out lp:harvest and easily have a look at it already
<dholbach> there's an INSTALL file that explains everything
<gaspa> ok, thanks.
<dholbach> tumbleweed, neversfelde, dobey: hey guys - you were among the last folks who got into ~ubuntu-dev - could you imagine giving a session at Ubuntu Developer Week about your experience or suggest a good topic or talk about anything related to development that'd interest new contributors? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep has the current list of topics and the preliminary schedule - we still have open slots :-D
<tumbleweed> dholbach: sure, I'll give it some thought
 * dholbach hugs tumbleweed
<dholbach> tumbleweed: let me know which slot on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep would suit you and I can block it out
<dholbach> tumbleweed: also if you want to give the session together with somebody else, that'd be cool too
<tumbleweed> dholbach: lol
<tumbleweed> dholbach: I don't have anyone in mind for combined session. Rhonda's dh suggestion is something I could do - otherwise my primary knowledge is python packaging
<dholbach> tumbleweed: that sounds great to me
<dholbach> tumbleweed: you rock, Rhonda: you guys could work with each other on that :)
<Rhonda> I'm not sure if tumbleweed has an idea what I am longing for - I don't want to cover debhelper itself but rather look under the hood. :)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: how far under the hood?
<shadeslayer> hehe ...
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: as far as "dpkg --build debian/$PKG .."  ;)
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: Like e.g. in http://git.deb.at/w/pkg/beep.git/blob/f17681:/debian/rules
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: ok, in that case I did miss the aim of your suggestion
 * Rhonda hides. :)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: it's a lot of ground to cover in an hour
<Laney> I reckons that a "how to work with Debian" sesh could be good
<Rhonda> Laney: I was asked to do it - by someone who considered me a MOTU. :)
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: Sure. I'll see how far I can get.
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: Actually I want to start off with "ar x foo.deb" and explain the three files you get from that. ;)
<Laney> Rhonda: that's a good sign that you should become one :)
<tumbleweed> oh, so you intend to do it? I thought from your suggestion that you wanted the talk but didn't want to give it
<Laney> i'm going to steal a slot
<Rhonda> No, dholbach asked me what I could help with and I throw that catch phrase at him. He just blindly copied it into the wiki, putting me in the action point. %-)
<tumbleweed> right
<Rhonda> Laney: Well, but that takes time, nothing doable in two week's time, including talk preperation. :)
<Laney> I didn't mean that UDW was a deadline for it
<Laney> you can talk about your experiences from the other side anyway :)
<Laney> I booked it in... would be good to give it jointly with a DD ;)
<dholbach> and if it doesn't work out for UDW, we can always do it for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/ :-D
<Rhonda> Might contain some critisism (me: "Please send patches you deem usable for Debian back." they: "Received bad feedback once, stopped doing that." me: "Not every DD is like that." they: "You can't know beforehand, and I'm annoyed." )
<Rhonda> Laney: Not sure that might be so productive. :)
<juli_> Hi everybody. I'm trying to create and install Maven POMs for the osgi framework (libequinox-osgi-java) according to http://wiki.debian.org/Java/MavenRepoHelper.
<juli_> I've never done this before so need some review and help. Could someone take a look at debdiff I created for this package: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eclipse/+bug/598039
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 598039 in eclipse (Ubuntu) "add maven poms and register jars in maven-repo" [Low,New]
<tumbleweed> juli_: there was a talk on that at a previous developer week: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1001/JavaLibs
<Laney> bdrung: ^^^^^
<Laney> juli_: Your diff isn't based on the latest Maverick version, and you spelled maverick wrong in the changelog
<Laney> furthermore, since this package is in sync with Debian I suggest you send the change to the BTS rather than launchpad
<nigelb> Laney: I was the person who asked Rhonda to talk about working with Debian, if you want to team up him or DktrKranz it would be great :)
<juli_> Laney, thanks, I suppose guys from eclipse will change it anyway.. it is just a early draft to understand how to do this
<nigelb> Laney: I also assumed Rhonda was MOTU - about time he became one right? ;)
<Rhonda> nigelb: assuming a him, too? ;)
 * Rhonda . o O ( I know it's complicated with me )
<nigelb> Rhonda: oh, you're a she? sorry
<Laney> a "here's how to make me a happy Debian maintainer" bit would be nice
<Laney> if I do "what you need to install to forward patches easily"
<Laney> (& how to do it)
<nigelb> Laney: So, you're up for a session about Debian right? ;)
<bdrung> Laney: we (the DOA team) track the launchpad bugs, too
<Laney> nigelb: yes indeed
<Laney> bdrung: I don't know what the DOA team is
<Rhonda> Laney: I think I could do that part about "make me a happy Debian maintainer"
<nigelb> Laney: orbital alignment team or something
<nigelb> *something like that
<bdrung> juli_: please come to #eclipse-linux or #debian-java (the second one is on OFTC) to discuss your patch - it should go upstream to eclipse-build
<Rhonda> Laney: Just tell me how many lines you want to spare me so I can type it out beforehand and just c&paste with specific irssi delay settings. :P
<nigelb> Rhonda: haha
<juli_> bdrung, ok, thanks
<Laney> haha
<bdrung> Laney: Debian Orbital Alignment Team = eclipse team ;)
<Rhonda> nigelb, Laney: hey, I wouldn't be good as sysadmin if I wouldn't be lazy in specific approaches to do work. :)
<Laney> There might be an amount of question answering to do too ;)
<Laney> but I'll keep you informed
<Rhonda> Sure, questions are tricky to prepare. I don't have one of these James Bond tape recorders that rewinds itself to the appropriate position and can predict all upcoming questions.
<RAOF> The Orbital Alignment Team would bee cooler if it _actually_ was in charge of our orbital headquaters :)
<paultag> Hey MOTU. I'm having issues with upstrem packaging. It's saying it's native when it's not. I just posted to the debian-mentors ML and got a few responses. I am source 1, and I have been tweeking my working directory name, source tgz name, and changelog to all match for about 2 hours now. I'm doing something wrong. Any ideas?
<shadeslayer> paultag: ok
<shadeslayer> paultag: dir name can be package-version
<shadeslayer> paultag: tarball has to be : package_version.tar.gz
<paultag> shadeslayer: well I have a twist ( al-la M. Night )
<paultag> shadeslayer: It's dfsg2-1 because of a license issue
<shadeslayer> dfsg ?
<Laney> repacked
<paultag> shadeslayer: debian free software guidelines
<Laney> do you have the orig.tar.gz in the right place?
<shadeslayer> paultag: btw were you at linux tag?
<Laney> ../blah_x+dfsg2.orig.tar.gz
<paultag> Laney: I thought I did. I tried a few different ones, dfsg1, dfsg2, 2-1
<paultag> shadeslayer: No, wish I was!
<shadeslayer> paultag: ah ok :P
<paultag> Laney: it still bombed on me, I'm pretty lost, I don't know much with dfsg repacking, but I was kinda forced to do it
<Laney> please pastebin the output of "debuild -S"
<paultag> One sec.
<shadeslayer> paultag: btw youll need to add get-orig-source in your rules file
<paultag> Laney: whoh, I'm getting an error message i've never seen before. Let me rtfm on this, I'll poke you when I feel good about it :)
<Laney> there's usually something buried in that output about it becoming native
<paultag> Laney: I was only using dpkg-buildpackage, so I might have missed it. One sec, I want to make sure I'm not doing something really bad here :)
<paultag> Laney: OK. this is getting odd. Let me pastebin my session.
<paultag> Laney: http://pastebin.com/Ad52pmyh
<shadeslayer> Laney: is debian import freeze in effect?
<shadeslayer> and is universe included in import freeze?
<Laney> I don't know, but universe will be included ye
<Laney> s
<Laney> paultag: see, that's quite clear
<Laney> you have to name your orig.tar.gz what it wants
<paultag> Laney: look at the rest
<paultag> Laney: I copied the name that it expected ( ctrl + c ) and did an ls on ../ on it
<paultag> Laney: it's there and in the right format
<Laney> no, it's in the wrong place
<Laney> move it onel evel up
<paultag> Laney: I ran that in the debian folder, that would be outside my vcs
<paultag> Laney: is that how it should be?
<Laney> the orig.tar.gz should be in the parent directory of the root of your packaging
<Laney> ie debian/../..
<paultag> Ahha!
<paultag> Laney: thank you, let me do that :)
<paultag> Laney: that did it! Thanks a ton :)
<Laney> no probs boss
<EricBa> Hello, is there a motu who has some time to review my package? It's already reviewed by one motu. My programm is a wallpaper changer for gnome. - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cortina - It was already advocated by one reviewer.. so this won't take much time to review.
<umang> EricBa, You don't need to write on #ubuntu-motu at the same time. If you package is included in Debian, it will be synced into Ubuntu as well.
<micahg> dholbach: thanks for trying for the upload, idk why it fails, I thought that was patched, I'll look into the merge
<dholbach> micahg: awesome - thanks
<gastons> Is it possible to use optional dependencies in a control file?
<gastons> Depends: openjdk-6-jre | sun-java6-jre
<micahg> gastons: yes
<gastons> Ok thanks. Is this documented anywhere? I looked at the debian policy manual and it just explains the different keywords.
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I see a lot of remaining merges in sponsors-queue, do you plan make it more less?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I haven't joined the sponsors team yet
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: but right now I'm just trying to keep my head above water, work-wise
<geser> tumbleweed: you don't need to join the sponsors team to be able to sponsor (you just can't unsubscribe the sponsors team from bugs)
<tumbleweed> geser: right, but I should join anyway. applies.
<Quintasan> \o
 * Rhonda . o O ( dejavu? EricBa asked again? )
<Rhonda> Hmm, gastons left, otherwise I would have suggested policy 7.1 for a read. :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-25
<imbrandon> ok so its quiet and i got a question/problem, bash script that i run, it then runs a ssh session and does a ton of stuff on the other comp and *should* never disconnect ( its forever tail on a file and a few other pipes ) and it works good unless the network hickups and ssh hangs, is there an easy way for me to run a loop in the bash script and tell if the ssh session has hun and restart it ?
<ScottK> Run it in a screen session would probably be easier.
<imbrandon> hum
<imbrandon> how would that help ? ssh would still die if net hiccuped
<ScottK> Yes, but the script would keep going in the screen session and you could reconnect to it.
<imbrandon> whats the ssh is doing is going to my remote irssi box and parseing / tailing the notifi hilights i get from irssi and then using the local notify-send on my laptop to get gui notifications
<imbrandon> so i dont think screen would help
<ScottK> I see.
<superm1> use an irc bouncer instead and run irssi on the local box connecting to the IRC bouncer
<superm1> like bip or zsh
<superm1> or a client that natively supports notifications like xchat
<imbrandon> meh, i do that, i have irssi proxy loaded and tried bip but backscroll and a ton of other stuff sucks on it
<imbrandon> and xchat would be sooo slow running on the xserver across the internet and still die when my x session dies iirc
<superm1> xchat + bip i mean
<superm1> xchat locally, connect to a remote bip box
<superm1> and it will just replay what you missed
<imbrandon> xchat + bip == shitty backscroll
<imbrandon> ever actualy used it ? i tried for a week once aboutr a year ago
<imbrandon> lol
<superm1> just set your buffer large enough and you can scroll back
<superm1> i have been using it for about 1.5 years
<superm1> it's what i'm using right now)
<imbrandon> yea i did for a while, i just couldent handle that and the lag of connecting when its loading 50+ channels on a few networks and should never be off and i can use a cli client
<superm1> well you are on too many networks and channels then clearly ;)
<imbrandon> wht i have works great cept for the ssh hang laptop use iisue ;)
<imbrandon> superm1: maybe, but i do actualy use most of them regularly
<imbrandon> ;)
<nigelb> imbrandon: use seprate bips :D
<imbrandon> but yea lots of channels + loading backscroll of i think 1000 lines was max ( not much for some rooms ) was bad bad jojo
<superm1> i have my scrollback set to 5000 per channel
<imbrandon> nigelb: how would that help ?
<superm1> as long as i dont disappear for too long that works well for me
<nigelb> imbrandon: well at least you can selectively connect to networks
<imbrandon> i tend to be away from some chans for about 24 hours, but not much more before i read em
<imbrandon> nigelb: ahhh that would not help then, i would just be a regression from now when i can do it fine
<imbrandon> really the main issue is getting the ssh restarted when it hangs due to network being unavailable for a short time, everything else is perfect
<imbrandon> for me at leaste
<superm1> autossh is what you need then
<imbrandon> rockin, thats what i needed /me googles a bit
<imbrandon> ty ty
<imbrandon> btw man how goes thing havent been on at the same time as you in a while
<superm1> v. busy, not enough time lately to dedicate to ubuntu community type stuff
<imbrandon> i hear ya, sometimes things get hetic
<RAOF> There's always something like smuxi, although that also suffers somewhat from inefficient backscroll.
<ScottK> imbrandon: You could also go gui and use quassel.  Put the client on your laptop and the core on your server.  It does an initial backsroll fetch on connect, but you can get as much more as you want if it's not enough.
 * micahg thinks quassel might be worth looking into
<micahg> ScottK: it doesn't do any other protocols, does it?
<ScottK> micahg: No.  The client/core protocol for quassel speaks in native Qt objects, so it'd be non-trivial.
<imbrandon> ScottK: hum, dident know you could split quassel
<micahg> ScottK: k
<RAOF> Smuxi has the same sort of architecture; it does IRC and twitter at the moment, I think.
<ScottK> micahg: We do provide packages for the full KDE client and also a Qt only version for people who don't want all of KDE.
<imbrandon> i'm only worried about irc, i have pidgin for everything else
<micahg> ScottK: I like pidgin because I can do IRC, xmpp, AIM, and identi.ca all in one client
<ScottK> imbrandon: The split client/core is actually the "normal" use case for Quassel.  The monolithic client we use in Kubuntu is actually very secondary to upstream.
<ScottK> micahg: I've yet to use a multi-protocol client like that that did IRC well enough for me.
<imbrandon> nice, i'll look into that right now. i'm not oposed to a gui client, i just dont like missing all the stuff i'm used to when i switch to one
<micahg> ScottK: works pretty well for me, I just wish I had a way to be online all the time with that client :)
<imbrandon> *sometimes* i even use the irssi proxy and connect xchat but not much
 * micahg will file a feature request for a relay \o/
<dholbach> good morning
<ApOgEE> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ApOgEE
<huats> morning
<ApOgEE> morning huats
<huats> mornig ApOgEE
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: if you want you can ACK the sync
<tamrat> There is a needs-packaging bug for a package which is now part of debian. Should I file a seperate 'sync from debian' bug, or should I update the current bug report
<tamrat> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/95667
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 95667 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] SAGA GIS" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: it should go as "Triaged", marking so
<geser> tamrat: please update that bug. that way we don't have a stale bug left because someone forgot to close it after the sync
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: not according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue#Sync request bugs
<BlackZ> geser: the status "Triaged" in a sync request is invalid? (if it has been ACKed by a MOTU)
<geser> BlackZ: I don't know if the archive admins care about the bug status but we usually set it to Confirmed
<BlackZ> I've seen few bugs with this status after the ACK
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: OK, I've set "Confirmed" newly
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: :)
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: if a package works fine without the versioned dependence can we drop it?
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: need more information
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: bug #598184 -- I'm testing it right now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 598184 in cynthiune.app (Ubuntu) "Please merge cynthiune.app 0.9.5-10 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/598184
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: sorry, I don't know anything about libmpcdec-dev
<tumbleweed> but why don't we have a recent version in ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: ok, so we use a different source package to provide libmpcdec-dev to debian (LP: #540019). update build-deps appropriatly and see if it works
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: what do you mean? dropping the versioned dependence or set the versioned dependence which is in ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> err, drop I guess
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: seems it FTBFS: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50892644/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.cynthiune.app_0.9.5-10ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<BlackZ> I don't think this is related to the dependence
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: that looks very much related to dependancies: mpc/reader.h: No such file or directory
<BlackZ> ah yes
<BlackZ> hmm, seems we need the newest version of libmpcdec
<rsajdok> hi, where can i read about how to make update package eclipse to the newest version (wiki page) "helios" ? who is responsible for this package, developer ubuntu or developer debian?
<tamrat> rsajdok: eclipse is a complicated package - updating yourself is most likely difficult, and the packagers of that package will know there is a new version - no need to ask them for an update
<rsajdok> tamrat: My intention is not hurry up packagers. I want to learn how to do it. i am looking for any wikis pages or documentations about it.
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: I fixed bug #595180 please check it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595180 in ircd-hybrid (Ubuntu) "Please merge ircd-hybrid 1:7.2.2.dfsg.2-6.1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595180
<tamrat> rsajdok: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete But believe me - try packaging some smaller things first
<rsajdok> tamrat: ok, thanks
<soren> persia: What do you have against pandora-build?
<dholbach> BlackZ: the comment about the patch file name was more general :)
<BlackZ> dholbach: yes, I know, in the next I will do as you said :)
<dholbach> BlackZ: thanks :)
<BlackZ> dholbach: package-version.debdiff would be correct? e.g foobar_0.1-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<dholbach> whatever - and if it's just package.debdiff
<BlackZ> dholbach: thanks for your hint :) I will do so
<dholbach> who could imagine giving a session about merging, UDD, avoiding common packaging mistakes, finding good stuff to work on at Ubuntu Developer Week? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep still has a few open slots
<warp10> ehy dholbach, gaspa suggests a "working with Debian" session for UDW. What's your opinion about it?
<dholbach> warp10: Laney is giving one of those
<warp10> D'OH!
<dholbach> warp10: you could work together with him
<dholbach> or do a double session
<dholbach> or a second one
<warp10> gaspa: --^
<dholbach> you're all a great team
<warp10> dholbach: yeah, that could be an idea. gaspa, maybe we want to check the session program with Laney and see if we should double it, co-work or move to a whole differen thing, do you agree?
<gaspa> ok, good!
<dholbach> I mean there's LOADS of topics that interest new developers and contributors
<dholbach> merging, UDD, avoiding common packaging mistakes, finding good stuff to work on, the release schedule, etc
<dholbach> there's really loads
<dholbach> a development q&a could be nice too
<gaspa> dholbach: we'd take the last slot of wednesday, can I modify the page?
<dholbach> gaspa: sure
<gaspa> nop
<gaspa> taken :)
<gaspa> dholbach: ehm, signed up for Friday... Wed was already taken.
 * dholbach hugs gaspa
<dholbach> gaspa: awesome
<dholbach> gaspa: BlackZ has an interest to work together with you guys
<dholbach> hey stefanlsd
<dholbach> ah, he's on there already
<dholbach> awesome
<gaspa> ;)
<dholbach> Italian mafia back in business
<gaspa> LOL
<dholbach> :-)
<gaspa> need a pizza, then
<dholbach> I love you guys - ROCK ON
<warp10> dholbach: LOL
 * warp10 hugs dholbach 
 * dholbach hugs warp10 back :)
<warp10> Uhmm... maybe I should rather kiss hands...
<dholbach> warp10: you probably know more about that than I do ;-)
<warp10> dholbach: yeah, think so! :D
<warp10> gaspa: could you arrange the play Godfather theme in background during our session?
<gaspa> ...sometimes I feel we're not joking about it...
<warp10> ROTFL
<gaspa> warp10: can we use A4 to present our session? :D
<warp10> gaspa: rocking idea! :D
<barry> hello folks!  is anybody up for reviewing two new packages uploaded to revu?  they are fairly simple python packages that have been available on pypi for a while, but now i've packaged them for ubuntu (i'm upstream on them too)
<ScottK> barry: Usually we suggest people go to DPMT/PAPT in Debian for that.
<barry> ScottK: yes, i'm going to do that, but i really wanted to go through the ubuntu process as documented in the ubuntu wiki.  or will that make it more difficult to sync once the packages are in debian?
<ScottK> As long as the md5sum of the tarball is the same, it won't make things more difficult.
<ScottK> Unfortunately, due to a shortage of sponsors that actual process seems to be upload to REVU, wait for something to happen, and then eventually go to Debian because only about 10% of the packages uploaded to REVU ever get a serious look.
<barry> ScottK: ouch
<ScottK> barry: A lot of MOTU get distracted by stuff like the Ubuntu Python maintainer uploading 2.6 to the distro the day before feature freeze and declaring his work done after Main is transitioned.
<barry> ScottK: heh.  still, we should give new ubuntu developers reasonable, working guidelines on the ubuntu wiki.  if revu is not a reasonable path to success, then let's change the wiki guidelines
<ScottK> barry: There really isn't one.  The best guideline is that if you have an interest in maintaining a specific package, you should maintain it in Debian and sync it into Ubuntu.  If the package is of interest to a development team, upload to REVU and ask someone on the team to review it (we do this in Kubuntu a lot).
<ScottK> If you just want to do a fire and forget upload, then we probably don't want the package.
<barry> ScottK: that's already a better recommendation than what's currently on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ScottK> barry: OK.  It's a wiki.  Go for it.
<barry> ScottK: which is where you land if you follow the twisty path for getting a new package into Ubuntu
<ScottK> Right.
<barry> ScottK: that's exactly why i'm here! :)
<barry> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> Obviously though if you got that far, we didn't make it twisty and turny enough.
<barry> ScottK: oh, you tried, and almost won.  when i got to the page about vuvuzelas, i realized i had to backtrack
<ScottK> Heh.
<barry> ScottK: what's the best debian page we should point people to who want to start the process of getting new packages into debian?
<ScottK> barry: Probably point them at mentors.debian.net, but mention that there are many teams in Debian and if your package fits a team, you should contact them.
<barry> +1, thanks
<ScottK> barry: You can use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/PythonModulesTeam for an example of how to interact with a Debian team.
<barry> ScottK: perfect thanks.  i'll let you know when i've updated the wiki page
<ScottK> Excellent.  Once you've done that, you can go to DPMT in good conscience that you are in deed following the Ubuntu process.
<barry> ScottK: yep.  just trying to make the path a little smoother for the next rider
<ScottK> Great.
<barry> ScottK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ScottK> barry: Looks good to me.
<barry> thanks for the feedback
 * hyperair wonders where Ubuntu will go after going through Zippy Zebra
<Pici> We never did have an AA release..
<hyperair> hmm so we loop back to AA eh
<hyperair> then all these x.y.z~zippy1 versions will break.
<hyperair> because x.y.z~angry1 is definitely not going to supersede x.y.z~zippy1
 * hyperair votes Angry Apple for AA
<hyperair> oh wait, apple's not an animal..
<Pici> Oh, then thats not good.
<Quintasan> hello
<hyperair> Angry Ape.
<hyperair> well hello there
<Quintasan> hyperair: Angry Apple is good
<Quintasan> hyperair: by the time we hit AA Apple is really going to be angry because we will take over their market share
<Quintasan> :P
<hyperair> =D
<hyperair> that sounds really appropriate.
<Quintasan> I would do and exception for PP  == PA  == Problem, Apple?
<Quintasan> s/and/an
<hyperair> heheh =p
 * ScottK votes for aardvark since it'll be the second time through the alphabet.
<paissad> hi all, where can i have the available|possible results of dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH
<paissad> thanks in advance for helping
<carstenh> dpkg-architecture -L
<carstenh> though I don't think architectures like darwin-m68k will ever exist in debian or ubuntu
<paissad> :)
<geser> hyperair: Crispy Calamari for CC :)
<hyperair> geser: nice =p
<hyperair> geser: Duck Dumpling for DD
<hyperair> ;-0
<ScottK> carstenh: There are archs in there that will never exist in Debian either.
<geser> kees: I'm right that that adding -nostdlib (or -Wno-stack-protector) to CFLAGS is the right fix for http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50893909/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.lustre_1.8.3-2ubuntu1~ppa0_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz?
<kees> geser: yes, it looks like the final link includes the -nostdlib, but that means the other .o files need to be built with that too.
<geser> kees: do I need to add the package somewhere to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags? I didn't spot an obvious place
<kees> geser: no, since it won't be an "exception".  the intended way to build that package is with -nostdlib, so it's just a simple (fixable) bug in the compile.
<kees> geser: only if no correct solution for a problem can be found should it show up on CompilerFlags (like, say, bacula)
<geser> ok
<geser> kees: do you have an idea why the same linking on amd64 succeeds? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50893899/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.lustre_1.8.3-2ubuntu1~ppa0_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz (search for "static lib lustre" to find the same place where it failed on i386)
<geser> I assumed that it would fail on amd64 too because of the -nostdlib at the linking stage
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: so for hp-ppd. want to mark the bug invalid and put a note on merges sayng "sync when Debian version is sane again"?
<kees> geser: I think amd64 isn't as strict in some situations.  I don't really know the root cause, though.
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: go ahead, thanks
<geser> kees: ok, thanks anyways
<kees> np
<fabrice_sp> about bug 596891, I was going to answer to Bhavani that as Angel as done all the work, I'd rather sponsor a debdiff from Angel. What do you think about that answer?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 596891 in ldaptor (Ubuntu) "Please merge ldaptor 0.0.43+debian1-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596891
<fabrice_sp> (all the work is report to Debian, and get half of the diff fixed there)
<shishire> where can I find the configure line for a prebuilt package? I need to rebuild php5, with some custom options, but I want to retain the rest of the configure line as is, to make it as compatible as possible.
<fabrice_sp> shishire, in debian/rules, except if php5 is special
<shishire> fabrice_sp, debian/rules inside the prebuilt package?
<fabrice_sp> shishire, inside the source package
<shishire> oh, even better :D
<shishire> ty
<fabrice_sp> yw ;-)
<shishire> awesome!  now I can just add the extension support I need, and good to go :D
<fabrice_sp> shishire, and you can build it with debuild -b
<fabrice_sp> it will use your 'patched' debian/rules file to generate the debs
<shishire> :D it keeps getting better and better :D
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: seems the new version of cmus has some problems
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, what kind of problems?
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: it FTBFS, as you said in bug #596323
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 596323 in cmus (Ubuntu) "Please merge cmus 2.2.0-4.1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596323
<BlackZ> seems the debian version fails too
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, if it FTBFS in sid, please report the bug in Debian
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: checking, however I fixed ekiga
<fabrice_sp> I saw: I'm just cleaning my local copy to reapply your debdiff
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, seems to be some libmpc update
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: exactly
<fabrice_sp> Ubuntu has the same version as Debian?
<fabrice_sp> !info libmpc maverick
<ubottu> Package libmpc does not exist in maverick
<fabrice_sp> oops
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<BlackZ> hm, seems not
<BlackZ> I see just an upload in karmic
<fabrice_sp> !info libmpc-dev maverick
<ubottu> libmpc-dev (source: mpclib): multiple precision complex floating-point library development package. In component main, is extra. Version 0.8.2-1 (maverick), package size 42 kB, installed size 208 kB
<fabrice_sp> !info libmpc-dev sid
<ubottu> 'sid' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<fabrice_sp> !info libmpc-dev unstable
<ubottu> libmpc-dev (source: mpclib): multiple precision complex floating-point library development package. In component main, is extra. Version 0.8.2-1 (unstable), package size 42 kB, installed size 208 kB
<BlackZ> oh yes
<fabrice_sp> the same, so it should FTBFS
<BlackZ> it's the same
<BlackZ> I was looking for the wrong package :p
<fabrice_sp> good candidate for submittodebian or reportbug :-)
<fabrice_sp> so did I :-)
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, about ekiga, I'll update the Vcs-Bzr url, as it's referencing lucid
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: yes, please do
<BlackZ> I didn't found that in the debian/changelog BTW
<fabrice_sp> it's not worth a new debdiff.
<BlackZ> "- debian/control: Clarify Vcs-*;"
<BlackZ> found
<fabrice_sp> it's a bit hidden: "debian/control: Clarify Vcs-*;"
<fabrice_sp> yes
<fabrice_sp> I'm too slow :-)
<BlackZ> heh
<fabrice_sp> do you know the patches.ubuntu.com site?
<fabrice_sp> like http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/ubuntu/e/ekiga/
<BlackZ> yes
<fabrice_sp> ok
<BlackZ> I heard it
<fabrice_sp> this is how I check the merges ;-) Comparing the old diff wit hthe new one
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: I can't find lintian errors in ircd-hybrid, please see http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/455148/
<BlackZ> just warnings
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, ekiga FTBFS: "Requested 'ptlib >= 2.6.7' but version of ptlib is 2.6.5"
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: binary, not source
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: maybe we can drop the versioned dependence? (however that needs testing)
<BlackZ> or merge/sync ptlib directly
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: are you able to build it?
<fabrice_sp> better merge ptlib: the check is done in configure
<fabrice_sp> so upstream is willing to have that version
<fabrice_sp> s/willing/requesting/
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: well, I'm on it
<fabrice_sp> good :-)
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: yes
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: surely you tested building it? :)
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: strange, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50893846/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.ircd-hybrid_1%3A7.2.2.dfsg.2-6.1ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<BlackZ> I'm able to build it
<BlackZ> (is it a your problem or is it my fault?)
<BlackZ> maybe I dropped something in the package, but I don't think so
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: it builds, but it doesn't completly fix the problem that the ubuntu delta is there for (thus the lintian error) - you forgot to patch "dirs"
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: and there's also another lintian error, that should be fixed and forwarded to debian and probably patched
<tumbleweed> s/and probably patched//
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: well, is it the one in the bug report?
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: dir-or-file-in-var-run is one of the things the delta is supposed to fix
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: init.d-script-missing-dependency-on-remote_fs is the other one
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: I was sure to merged that
<BlackZ> and hmm I re-merged
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: also, for neatness (and it matters in some languages like python) use same identation type when you modify files (tabs vs spaces)
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, will you ake care of bug 598584 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 598584 in Ubuntu "Sync re2 0+hg23+dfsg-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/598584
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: heh, sure
<arand> lachouffe: I think pavucontrol can do that..
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: btw, I'm hoping upstream releases that and commits to SONAMES before squeze goes into freeze
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: otherwise I'm going to remove it from testing
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: but I guess Ubuntu doesn't care as much :)
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, not sure about that ;-)
<fabrice_sp> but as we sync from unstable, you're probably right
<tumbleweed> hah
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: I'm doing the merge but I'm not sure 100 % about the changes, maybe you could look at it
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, you mean ptlib?
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: yes
<fabrice_sp> what changes do you have problem with?
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: "+ debian/control: Build-depend on libdc1394-22-dev; add conflicts and replaces for libpt2.6.1-dev and -plugins-dc." for the second change: there's no longer the libpt2.6.5-plugins transition
<BlackZ> where the "-plugins-dc" were added
<fabrice_sp> libpt-1.11.2-dev is still there, it seems
<BlackZ> yes, it's
<fabrice_sp> so you should keep the conflict/replace stuff for this one
<fabrice_sp> libpt2.6.1-doc is only in jaunty, so can be dropped
<BlackZ> there's just "libpt-doc"
<fabrice_sp> and no libpt2.6.3, it seems ,so it can be dropped too
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: in which version are you looking?
<fabrice_sp> all (using u.p.c)
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: BTW I will file the merge, maybe you can give some recommendations there :)
<BlackZ> (if it's necessary)
<fabrice_sp> I'll check tomorrow (time to go to bed :-) ). Bye
<BlackZ> good night, fabrice_sp
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-26
<lamothe> Hi, I am the maintainer of me-tv in Debian but my sponsor hasn't responded in a week. The version of Me TV in sid/maverick currently has some significant issues and I would like to update it to a known stable version.  Is the revu process the correct one to use?
<ari-tczew> can I run testbuild by pbuilder for 64bit architecture on maverick 386?
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: ping
<geser> ari-tczew: no, as you can't run 64bit apps (even in pbuilder or any chroot) with a 32bit kernel
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: do you test build on bug 598684 on 64bit? on my 386 built fine. going to attach a buildlog
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 598684 in libdecodeqr (Ubuntu) "Sync libdecodeqr 0.9.3-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/598684
<VK7HSE> Hi I've been requested to upload me-tv-1.2.6 to REVU as the Debian maintainer has been too busy to update this package within Debian it's self. This version addresses some critical issues that are in the current version that has been synced from Debian. Please see Bug #598782 for details ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 598782 in Me TV "Please review me-tv_1.2.6 for inclusion into Maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/598782
<dupondje> ari-tczew: tried to build it, it fails
<ari-tczew> dupondje: could you attach a buildlog on pastebin ubuntu?
<VK7HSE> Hmm... getting this error when attempting to login to REVU ...  http://pastebin.com/Amr74ZTP  any ideas ?
<dupondje> ari-tczew: http://paste.ubuntu.com/455414/
<ari-tczew> dupondje: full buildlog!
<aretrfre34> how to cross compile, normal auto package
<BlackZ> aretrfre34: the best way would be forward it to debian
<aretrfre34> ok, how do i do it?
<BlackZ> if the maintainer can't, just do a Non-maintainer upload on mentors.debian.net -- I think somebody will review your package, or ask the maintainer directly
<BlackZ> aretrfre34: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/welcome
<BlackZ> also, the sponsorship for packages on REVU is a separate process, marking the bug as "Invalid"
<BlackZ> or if you want to "keep" the bug I think unsubscribing the MOTU and the REVU team would be the solution
<BlackZ> and you should file the bug under the me-tv package in ubuntu, not upstream
<aretrfre34> thanks, for info BlackZ
<aretrfre34> BlackZ: is it right if add this to my sources list deb http://www.packages.debian.org lenny
<aretrfre34> i mean which debian packages repository to add, stable one
<BlackZ> aretrfre34: no, the right one is deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free -- but why do you want to add it?
<aretrfre34> I'm going to add to my nokia
<aretrfre34> BlackZ: couldn't update nokia, they changed wifi pass
<ari-tczew> dupondje: still waiting
<dupondje> sudo pbuilder --build libdecodeqr_0.9.3-3.dsc --logfile buildlog.txt
<dupondje> but no buidllog :(
<geser> dupondje: sudo pbuilder build --logfile buildlog.txt libdecodeqr_0.9.3-3.dsc
<dupondje> bleh ok :)
<geser> the options are to be placed between (--)build and the .dsc file
<ari-tczew> dupondje: lucid/maverick?
<dupondje> maverick
<ari-tczew> dupondje: and?
<dupondje> http://ubuntu.dupondje.be/buildlog.txt
<ari-tczew> dupondje: 64bit?
<dupondje> y
<ari-tczew> dupondje: could you graciously answer in normal type and highlight me in future?
<geser> dupondje: grab the config.log from within the pbuilder and check what exactly makes that check fail
<ari-tczew> dupondje: could you also check build current existing package?
<dupondje> ari-tczew: the current fails with same error
<ari-tczew> dupondje: strange, launchpad built package fine. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdecodeqr/0.9.3-2ubuntu1
<dupondje> ari-tczew: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opencv => check last changelog :) Change install path of python-opencv. (Closes: #565121)
<dupondje> the official build: Unpacking libcv4 (from .../libcv4_2.0.0-2ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<dupondje> just doesn't build with current version of opencv
<ari-tczew> hm, we can upload a patch to fix it on opencv, or don't sync libdecodegr and don't touch opencv
<dupondje> ari-tczew: or patch libdecodegr ?
<ari-tczew> dupondje: don't have an idea for patch libdecodegr. 386 built fine.
<ari-tczew> can I find a changes in Debian e.g. between -3 and -4 revision?
<dupondje> mmmm
<dupondje> ari-tczew: apt-file show libhighgui-dev
<dupondje> can you do it ?
<ari-tczew> dupondje: and?
<dupondje> gimme output :)
<ari-tczew> dupondje: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/4iSNvwxL
<dupondje> ari-tczew: please install it and run it :) should give the files in the package then
<ari-tczew> dupondje: yea and what's next?
<dupondje> what files you see ?
<ari-tczew> dupondje: please don't waste our time. say directly what you're going to
<dupondje> I don't have the la file
<dupondje> /usr/lib/libhighgui.la
<dupondje> ari-tczew: and I bet its in the 32bit one ...
<ari-tczew> dupondje: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/8DEW1dMW
<dupondje> thats weird, and you can build it without issues ? :s
<franko> Hi all
<ari-tczew> dupondje: yea, 386 fine
<ari-tczew> hi franko
<franko> I've a small question for the smart guys here...
<ari-tczew> franko: just ask
<franko> I'm author of a software and I was looking the HowTo page to create an ubuntu package...
<franko> I can't understand how it can be so complicated to create an ubuntu package!!!
<franko> I wondering if I'm not going to give up, it seems that you need to invest a lot of time.
<franko> I'm actually able to create debian packages but with ubuntu seems so much more complicated...
<franko> ... but my question is: I need to adopt autoconf in my project to build a proper Ubuntu package ?
<franko> nobody knows about autoconf ?
<dutchie> franko: no, you don't need autoconf, just a way to build your project. Hand-crafted Makefiles are fine, if that's all you need
<franko> dutchie: I was reading about CDBS and it seems that you need autoconf...
<dutchie> i think CDBS is deprecated in favour of debhelper 7
<ari-tczew> some packages has got 99_autoconf.patch
<ari-tczew> dupondje: please see debian/rules in package libdecodeqr at line 30
<franko> there isn't any simple up-to-date howto page to build ubuntu packages ?
<dutchie> franko: i think you're better off doing a package in debian and allowing it to filter down from there
<dupondje> ari-tczew: thats the OpenCV version it needs or ?
<ari-tczew> dupondje: I think so
<ari-tczew> dupondje: debian/rules require 2.0.5, but in repository 2.0.0 exist
<ari-tczew> dupondje: did you check what geser want to show?
<ari-tczew> s/show/see
<franko> dutchie: I see... the problem is that I was dreaming of a proper beautiful ubuntu package for my project :-)
<dupondje> need to find out how to pull out the config, but first I gtg and do some work
<dutchie> franko: a proper beautiful Debian package is better than just an ubuntu package
<dutchie> franko: it will end up in lots more distros without any extra work
<franko> dutchie: I see... I guess you're correct
<coolbhavi> hi which is the server used in reportbug.conf to report bugs to debian?
<coolbhavi> via submittodebian?
<franko> one last question: is there any chance that someone adopt my project to make an ubuntu package ?
<dutchie> franko: try submitting a needs-packaging bug in launchpad or one agaist wnpp on bugs.debian.org
<coolbhavi> reportbug.debian.org temporarily greylisted any other servers to be used? please help
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: what's the problem? do you want to send bug to Debian?
<coolbhavi> yep ari-tczew
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: I use a mail to create a bug
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: submit@bugs.debian.org
<coolbhavi> yep ari-tczew but i want to know if there are any alternative servers
<shadeslayer> oh wow... http://pastebin.com/9JNsqVcN
<shadeslayer> can someone have a look at that issue? (package is in main)
<jpds> You might get better speeds from a US mirror, like mirror.anl.gov.
<shadeslayer> jpds: oh its not that i didnt have a good download speed... i was downloading something else too
<jpds> Just a suggestion.
 * jpds doesn't really understand why people use the master archive machines.
<shadeslayer> jpds: :)
<shadeslayer> jpds: im in india..so the US archives are too far.. also notice which version im using
<jpds> Oh, in.archive is based in India.
<shadeslayer> the indian servers lag behind by about a day to sometimes a week
<shadeslayer> and then sometimes the MD5sum is  bad
<jpds> Lovely... :(
<ari-tczew> lool: ping
 * tumbleweed wants a second opinion: Is it ok to merge xsane-doc back into xsane-common now that it's in Universe? I assume the split was made for CD-space reasons
<Laney> does -doc depends on -common? and is that what Debian has?
<tumbleweed> -doc doesn't have any relations to other packages, but it does put it's files in /usr/share/xsane-common/html/
<tumbleweed> yes, debian only has -common, we made the split to -common (locales) + -doc (HTML docs) in gutsy
<Laney> you need to make the upgrade path work out
<tumbleweed> yes :)
<highvoltage> hey tumbleweed nice to see you here :)
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: Laney seems to agree: ^
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: ugh, it's a time-sink of note
<Laney> alternatively you could see if Debian will take the split
<tumbleweed> Laney: yeah, maybe that's the best thing, forward it and ask them what tehy want to do
<Laney> check the existing bugs and see if someone already did it
<tumbleweed> whoops *slap*
<Laney> ;)
<highvoltage> heh
<ari-tczew> syncpackage script oficially released in ubuntu-dev-tools \o/
<siretart> yay
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Maverick DIF is complete - Time to whip the archive into shape! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<ScottK> FYI, the latest rebuild test is post DIF, so that's all ours to fix.
<ScottK> lucas: Thanks for the rebuild test.
<lool> ari-tczew: pong
<ari-tczew> lool: did you see an e-mail from libsmbios maintainer?
<ari-tczew> Laney: have time for sponsoring?
<lool> ari-tczew: I'm still walking through my email slowly -- came back from a week of leave
<lool> ari-tczew: If everything is in email, I should get back to you / the author RSN
<ari-tczew> lool: what is RSN?
<dutchie> ari-tczew: Real Soon Now
<ari-tczew> ah, thanks dutchie
<lool> (yep - thanks)
<ari-tczew> lool: so in this place I can say you, that maintainer of libsmbios gives you a free hand to fix package (new upstream take from Ubuntu as well)
<shadeslayer> anyone know what the channel for cleansweep is?
<Laney> ari-tczew: if it's so urgent that it can't go through the queue, sure
<lool> ari-tczew: Read the email now
<ari-tczew> Laney: this is no urgent question, just want to see sponsorship by you :>
<ari-tczew> lool: Inbox is clean. :>
<lool> ari-tczew: Not sure what you mean; inbox is far from being clean here still  :-)
<lool> ari-tczew: So I'm happy to discuss specifics for the future of libsmbios
<lool> ari-tczew: Do you have some plan already, or would you like me to offer one?
<lool> I have no strong personal interest in libsmbios; I picked up uploads in Debian at some point because there were some serious issues to address and the maintainer was looking for sponsorship (the package was needed for important hardware, but none of mine)
<ari-tczew> lool: my plan is following: I've packed new upstream release and package is waiting for sponsorship
<ari-tczew> Laney: note: I asked you for sponsorship just _for me_, not in general
<lool> ari-tczew: Do you want to host it under some Vcs?
<lool> ari-tczew: I would personally suggest that if you do, you put it under collab-maint in some way
<ari-tczew> lool: at this moment not planned. never uploaded to Vcs
<lool> ari-tczew: That's ok; the advantage of the Vcs is to keep fine-grained history of smaller changes than full uploads; notably packaging changes
<lool> ari-tczew: Do you want me to sponsor it?
<ari-tczew> lool: it would be nice, because you are a co-maintainer for libsmbios, glad if you'll sponsor my patch propose
<ari-tczew> lool: and about Inbox: I use Evolution and Inbox is field for incoming messages
<lool> ari-tczew: Ok; I'll write a review of the debdiff over email
<ari-tczew> lool: it's in bzr branch
<lool> ari-tczew: Sorry, which one?
<ari-tczew> lool: https://code.launchpad.net/~ari-tczew/ubuntu/maverick/libsmbios/lp-591017/+merge/26992
<lool> Ok
<ari-tczew> bdrung: any ideas for fix bug 598684 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 598684 in libdecodeqr (Ubuntu) "Sync libdecodeqr 0.9.3-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/598684
<bdrung> fabrice_sp: ^ do you tried to build it on i386 or amd64?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: can you update maverick and build it again?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: dpkg-genchanges  >../libdecodeqr_0.9.3-3_i386.changes
<ari-tczew> built fine
<ari-tczew> bdrung: have you tried use sbuild?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i used pbuilder
<ari-tczew> bdrung: did you use sbuild ever?
<ari-tczew> I ask because it's possible that sbuild will build fine
<bdrung> ari-tczew: really?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: really
<bdrung> fabrice_sp: ^ did you use pbuilder or sbuild?
<ari-tczew> I can dig a discuss with kees, mdeslaur and ScottK
<ari-tczew> log of discuss of course
<ari-tczew> bdrung: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/UJRcK2M4
<ScottK> a|wen: Thanks for taking care of boost1.40.
<a|wen> ScottK: no problem ... i've been fixing up boost before, so why not do the merge as well
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-27
<fabrice_sp> bdrung, sbuild (and in amd64 for ari-tczew)
 * fabrice_sp now reads backlog
<Sarmad> Question: I used to request free CDs and distribute them mostly to computer professional who haven't tried Ubuntu before. Now I can see "becoming an Ubuntu member by contributing to Ubuntu, and thereby becoming eligible for more CDs". Kindly tell me how I can contribute and how eligibility process works?
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: thanks for sponsoring
<ari-tczew> how can I hide my IP address on IRC?
<geser> ari-tczew: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Cloaks
<ari-tczew> thanks geser
<ari-tczew> geser: I'm not an Ubuntu Member directly. is it a problem?
<geser> shouldn't be
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, yw. Did you saw my post on bug 598684 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 598684 in libdecodeqr (Ubuntu) "Sync libdecodeqr 0.9.3-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/598684
<fabrice_sp> you can upload the Debian package to your ppa, and see what happends
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: just saw it. please don't think that I'm not test build, because I have i386 architecture.
<ari-tczew> s/not/did not
<fabrice_sp> no: that's why when I find a FTBFS, I always ask the bug reporter to check
<fabrice_sp> this difference between adm64 and i386 is what made me insall the amd64 variant
<fabrice_sp> with adm64, you can build 32/64 bits
<fabrice_sp> and also sbuild, as pbuilder sometimes builds fine but sbuild fails
<fabrice_sp> and sbuild is nearer from buildds than pbuilder
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: did you tried sbuild for this one?
<fabrice_sp> I always uses sbuild
 * fabrice_sp switeched to lvm partitions to be able to use sbuild some time ago
<fabrice_sp> s/switeched/switched
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: hmm, what do you think, B-D on libavformat-dev will fix the issue?
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, I don't think so: it seems to be only a missing function, and not a missing build-dep
<fabrice_sp> so perhaps the function is not experted anymore in libavformat
<fabrice_sp> s/experted/exported/
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: then we can't sync this one. closing bug?
<fabrice_sp> we have to wait until this issue is fixed
<fabrice_sp> I'm seing that during latest build test, player also FTBFS with the same error
<fabrice_sp> on amd64, also
<BlackZ> please, someone could ACK bug #598874 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 598874 in libmpc (Ubuntu) "Please sync libmpc 2:0.1~r459-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/598874
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: hehe I'm watching on it also right now
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, this was the next sync request I was going to check
<fabrice_sp> but I have some stuff to do before, wo probably will check it this afternoon
<fabrice_sp> 11h30 AM here
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: look @ http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=584232
<ubottu> Debian bug 584232 in player "player: FTBS on alpha, armel, ia64, mips and mipsel" [Normal,Open]
<ari-tczew> guy have attached a patch
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, donsn't seem to be the same
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: here 11:24 AM :p
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: propably fabrice_sp lives in other place like you (timezones)
<fabrice_sp> hey: we are in the same timezone :-)
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: indeed
<fabrice_sp> Italy and Spain aren't very far ;-)
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, it seems to be more a problem in opencv package. Will check later on.
<fabrice_sp> Have to go now. CU
<BlackZ> bye fabrice_sp
<ari-tczew> ok thanks fabrice_sp
<ari-tczew> see you
 * ari-tczew is going to learn about IRC clocking
<sniderDK> hello all, a fellow php-gtk developer and I wish to maintain a php-gtk package (with its extras) is the best way to get them into the universe to start a PPA and get back in touch when thats been going for awhile?
<tsimpson> the best way is to use revu
<tsimpson> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<sniderDK> thank you very much, thats perfect
<Laney> sniderDK: I see that there is a Debian request for packaging, you should probably look to maintaining it there
<Laney> see http://wiki.debian.org/PHP#ForpackagersofPHPapplications.2BAC8-modules.2BAC8-libraries
<nigelb> soren: can you moderate my mail to #ubuntu-motu? (accidentally sent from @gmail instead of @ubuntu)
<ScottK> nigelb: It's generally easier to just cancel the post and send it again.
<geser> is the ubuntu-motu ML moderated at all?
<nigelb> ScottK: contemplating that
<ScottK> geser: You have to be subscribed to post.
<geser> ah
<nigelb> geser: forgot to change the "from"
<geser> nigelb: moderated
<nigelb> geser: thank you :)
<geser> DktrKranz: did you see the u-d-t branch from Andrew with the manpages update?
<DktrKranz> geser: only now.....
<shadeslayer> question for MOTU's , why cant we upload a new version mentioned in bug 565206
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565206 in scidavis (Ubuntu) "Please update to 0.2.4 as it fixes compatibility issues with qt 4.6" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565206
<shadeslayer> we have a debdiff and all for the package
<JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: comment 3 answers that quite well. It'd be easier to wait for debian to upload, then sync
<JontheEchidna> though it hasn't been sponsored in debian for a few months now...
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: i saw the comment,but still,the package has been on mentors.debian since a month and no one has looked in it
 * shadeslayer pokes around on oftc
<JontheEchidna> 6 MB debdiffs are unweildy, blegh
<Laney> debdiffs arent suitable for new upstream releases
<shadeslayer> Laney: true
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: i gave Riddell a 5MB diff recently :P
<shadeslayer> i think it was for kptc... not sure :D
<ScottK> shadeslayer: It's not true no one looked at it on mentors.  I did and mailed the maintainer some comments, but I don't see it got updated.
<shadeslayer> ScottK: oh.. i thought mentors had a comment section like debian?
<shadeslayer> s/debian/revu
<ScottK> Nope.
<shadeslayer> ah.. i didnt realize that..
<shadeslayer> anyone here watch 24 btw?
<shadeslayer> whoops.. wrong channel
<fabrice_sp> dupondje, ping
<fabrice_sp> about bug #593100
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 593100 in vzctl (Ubuntu) "Please merge vzctl (3.0.23-18) universe from debian sid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/593100
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, libmpcdec seems to have been deprecated in favor of libmpc
<fabrice_sp> (libmpc is not in squeeze anymore)
<fabrice_sp> s/libmpc/libmpcdec/
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: did you see my sync request?
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, yes. that's why I checked the 2 packages
<fabrice_sp> as libmpcdec is in main, it's not so easy
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: so what should we do?
<fabrice_sp> check rdepends on libmpcdec3
<fabrice_sp> and try to build them with libmpc packages
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: I checked that with quadrispro
<BlackZ> (yeah, there are a lot of packages)
<fabrice_sp> 15 packages
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, I've just commented on the bug, and updated the bug report so that it affect also libmpcdec
<fabrice_sp> let see what happens
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: however that situation should be really solved soon
<fabrice_sp> as it involve a main package, it will take a bit more time
<fabrice_sp> do you have a list of packages that FTBFS because of that?
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: currently no
<BlackZ> but I indicated a bug on the sync request
<BlackZ> s/on/in
<fabrice_sp> lastest rebuild shows only mpc123
<dupondje> yea fabrice_sp  ?
<fabrice_sp> dupondje, did you see that bhavani posted an updated  debdiff
<dupondje> yea I saw :) got an email :p
<fabrice_sp> shall I upload it?
<dupondje> didn't check it yet, but if its good ...
<fabrice_sp> it's just that you did a first work, and it's a pitty not to follow up
<fabrice_sp> however, this is the second time that Bhavani jump on an exisitng bug to post an upstated debdiff ,without letting the original reporter to post a new ine
<fabrice_sp> so I was going to ask him to speak with the original reporter, before posting
<dupondje> will check his patch in some minutes
<dupondje> got to do something else first :)
<fabrice_sp> np: I have to lunch :-) bbl
<dupondje> fabrice_sp: patch seems fine
<fabrice_sp> dupondje, even if the patch seems fine, would you like to attach your own debdiff, or shall I upload the one from Bhavani?
<dupondje> feel free to upload his
<dupondje> its quite useless to create the same one again imo :)
<fabrice_sp> I know :-/
<fabrice_sp> but I feel bad, as you began to work on it
<dupondje> hehe no problem
<dupondje> got to reboot
<dupondje> brb
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: ptlib is uploaded now, the other dependence to merge is opal, coolbhavi said he's on it
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, did you checked that there is no more dependencies required
<ScottK> geser: python-defaults (and python3-defaults) are merged now so the stack of packages that were depwait on those should start to clear.
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: seems not
<geser> ScottK: thanks
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: no worries about that, I'll try a build of it once opal is uploaded
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, ok
<ScottK> lucas: I am noticing there are more than a couple packages that FTBFS due to docbook dtd changes in KDE.  The build logs all have "make[3]: *** [doc/en/index.cache.bz2] Error 1" in them.  I was wondering if you could teach the rebuild system about that so it doesn't just yield [UNKNOWN] XXX for the error.  kcheckgmail in the latest rebuild is an example.
<ripps> hmm... why isn't my hardy/jaunty packages with backported debhelper and quilt not running dh_quilt_patch and dh_quilt_unpatch?
<ripps> debhelper=7.4.3 quilt=0.48
<ripps> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50996739/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.gmpc_0.20.0%2Bgit20100627.7f762dd-0ubuntu1~ripps3~hardy_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ripps> Does dh --with-quilt $@, not work with launchpad buildd for some reason?
<lifeless> ripps: it should if you have the build deps right
<dupondje> E: Release signed by unknown key (key id 9AA38DCD55BE302B) => when trying to create sid pbuilder env. Any idea how I can fix that ? :)
<RAOF> Install the debian keyring, I believe
<dupondje> didn't solve it :(
<Laney> I believe they recently did something with the archive keys
<Laney> maybe it takes some time for uploads to happen or whatever
<Laney> (...#debian-devel/-ftp might know more)
<dupondje> debian-archive-keyring
<dupondje> :D
<dupondje> fixed it
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-20
<directhex> Laney: i have access to a ppc porterbox. ask me again tomorrow
<stgraber> directhex: the result I pasted before were on davis (ppc porterbox) so you should get exactly the same thing :)
<directhex> good, 'cos i can't be bothered booting my laptop just for its juicy ssh key
<dholbach> good morning
<blackmoon-105> hi, i've got a problem with a dkms package: all source files are installed in the dkms-tree, compiled and installed in the modules directory, but i've got an error: "Error!  Build of r8168.ko failed for: 2.6.38-9-generic (x86_64)
<blackmoon-105> "
<blackmoon-105> the full make.log is here: http://pastebin.com/VhpNyQB7
<blackmoon-105> any hints?
<Jarvis> blackmoon-105: are you sure thats the right buildlog ?
<blackmoon-105> Jarvis: yes i'm sure
<zooko> Dear people of #ubuntu-motu: Tahoe-LAFS has finally been packaged in Debian!
<micahg> \o/
<Jarvis> blackmoon-105: the reason i ask is it doesn't show any errors :/
<zooko> What do I need to do to make the Ubuntu package of Tahoe-LAFS be synchronized with the Debian package thereof?
<Jarvis> infact that looks like a successful build of that module :/
<tumbleweed> zooko: well, first see if there are any major differences, then if not, request a sync
<blackmoon-105> Jarvis: yes the module is build (but not stripped) and installed
<blackmoon-105> but on console i've got an error and it say to see the log for more informations
<blackmoon-105> but the log didn't help
<Jarvis> indeed it doesn't :/
<micahg> zooko: requestsync if there's no diff
<zooko> Hm. I guess I would inspect the debian and ubuntu diffs to see.
<jtaylor_> re
<jtaylor_> my irc client went haywire -.-
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-21
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<nigelb> hello ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi nigelb
<nigelb> ajmitch: You haven't been around for some time or is it just my feeling? :-)
<ajmitch> I've been around, but mostly lurking
<nigelb> Ah, that explains that.
<ajmitch> what have you been up to?
<nigelb> oh this and that :)
<ajmitch> in other words, plenty of secret stuff? :)
<nigelb> ajmitch: Not entirely, working on the web projects last cycle, picking up ftbfs this cycle.
 * ajmitch ought to find one thing to try & do & stick with :)
<DorianJaminais> Hello
<DorianJaminais> I am trying to package NetGameTrack
<DorianJaminais> but I have an error using pbuilder
<DorianJaminais> the makefile try to create a new folder : /usr/local/include/NetGameTrack
<DorianJaminais> but I get an error message saying that it doesn't have the permission
<Laney> ajmitch: do get libappindicator into debian :) :) :) :)
<DorianJaminais> What is the correct way to do this ?
<Laney> the makefile shouldn't be doing that
<DorianJaminais> arf fail
<DorianJaminais> so it is impossible to create new folder in /usr/local/include ?
<DorianJaminais> or it has to be done an other way ?
<tumbleweed> DorianJaminais: first of all, packages shouldn't put anything into /usr/local
<DorianJaminais> so in /usr/include ?
<tumbleweed> second, during the build, you mustn't install to the system, but to the build directory, your Makefil should understand DESTDIR (which is probably going to be ./debian/$packagename ) and install there
<DorianJaminais> in my makefile, I got a variable PREFIX, if I change it's value to DESTDIR, should it be okay ?
<tumbleweed> that may work as a hack, but PREFIX is something different
<tumbleweed> PREFIX is something that could ended up in built files (i.e. if PREFIX was /usr, it should look in /usr for data). DESTDIR tells the build system to install to a staging directory rather than the host
<DorianJaminais> alright
<DorianJaminais> so I will rather try to replace PREFIX by DESTIR in the install target
<nigelb> tumbleweed: were you able to put my list to good use?
<nigelb> tumbleweed: I wonder if we should now announce a hackathon-type event for ftbfs now that we have a list.
<tumbleweed> nigelb: nope, I'm just graphing all FTBFSs
<tumbleweed> nigelb: so, I can easily annonate your list by finding all the ftbfs bugs filed against those packages (more than 50% have bugs), but haven't done anything else with it
<tumbleweed> yes, announcing the hackathon is good
<nigelb> cool, pick a date when most people can devote a few hours to it, and I can announce
<tumbleweed> any time works for me
<nigelb> tumbleweed: next wednesday? That way we have time to get the word out.
<tumbleweed> sounds good to me. Anyone else?
<nigelb> Laney, dholbach: thoughts ^
<dholbach> nigelb, next wednesday = tomorrow?
<nigelb> dholbach: no the week after
<dholbach> ok, super
<nigelb> 28th
<dholbach> because barry wanted to run a dh_python2 porting jam on this thursday (23rd)
<nigelb> Yeah, I remember that :-)
<nigelb> when is the platform rally?
<cjwatson> next week
<nigelb> Would it affect negatively if we ran it the week of the rally?
<Laney> what's the proposal?
<nigelb> Laney: A hackathon like event to fix the ftbfs.
<tumbleweed> mostly linker-related issues
<nigelb> Ah, that too. FTBFS caused by linker issues.
<Laney> sounds good if you can find people to do the work
<cjwatson> I don't think there'd be a particular problem having that in parallel with the rally
<nigelb> I intend to do the work. about finding others, well, I gotta try.
 * tumbleweed has some local mentorees that I'll try and throw at it
<cjwatson> unless you think there might be a problem with Canonical people mostly on the same timezone so there being less coverage to help people in different timezones
<cjwatson> but I shouldn't think that would be a big problem
<nigelb> In which case, I'll start blogging and writing to the mailing lists.
<Laney> is there a status page or similar?
 * tumbleweed can set one up
<Laney> I wonder if an IRC bot which you can ask for a new task would be fun
<nigelb> I thought of a wiki or etherpad. bUt a bot sounds fun too :-)
<tumbleweed> harvestbot :)
<Laney> ChallengeBot: !next
<nigelb> as long as folks don't think we're spamming the channel ;)
<tumbleweed> etherpad sounds good for something like that
<Laney> <ChallengeBot> Laney: Fix "FTBFS: blah blah" http://some.site
<Laney> well, could be done in PM or another channel or whateer
<Laney> I just thought it might be a fun way to organise it
<Laney> league table for completing challenges and so on
<Laney> off-the-cuff thoughts :-)
<cjwatson> when I joined the Debian release team, ajt set the prospective RAs a bunch of challenges, which were basically of the form "get these release-critical bugs fixed or the packages removed or whatever's appropriate, using your best judgement"
<cjwatson> naturally we tended to get the intractable ones that had been sitting around for ages with people too scared to touch them
<cjwatson> it was rather fun
<Laney> having a list that you're emptying is quite motivating I think, indeed
<nigelb> I suspect we can have an etherpad list with hints on how to fix, claiming and marking as fixed.
<nigelb> I would use the wiki, but its been fairly unusable after the upgrade
<Laney> LP bugs would be the best way to claim probably
<Laney> just need a way to link them into the status page (harvest or whatever it is)
<nigelb> I could hack something up tonight. Let me see.
<tumbleweed> well that's easy, we have a list of bugs to poll, and can re-generate a status page
<nigelb> yup
<nigelb> tumbleweed: if you can get me bugs for each package, I can get a status page up tonight.
<lifeless> tags?
<Laney> quite
<tumbleweed> nigelb: http://pastebin.com/9mGhvSBx
<Laney> just use the API to grab bugs with a tag and make some kind of table
 * tumbleweed prefers the tag approach, yes
<nigelb> Right, so we needed to file bugs for all the packages first.
<nigelb> (If they don't exist already)
<tumbleweed> poke doko for his ftbfs-filing script, or write one
<nigelb> ah, ok
<Laney> are you going to use the normal sponsoring process for this or something else?
<nigelb> normal sponsoring process
<nigelb> Is there something else?
<tumbleweed> i think it would be preferable to try and review those faster, though
<tumbleweed> it's lots of similar bugs, so you want feedback before people make the same mistakes
<Laney> I just thought that some pre-vetting / mentoring / whatever might be good
<nigelb> Oh, that way. I hope there are mentors around who can sponsor stuff.
<Laney> otherwise low quality fixes might make it through
<nigelb> Yes, indeed, it would be.
<DorianJaminais> Sorry to disturb you again :D
<DorianJaminais> What is the proper way in the makefile to install a file to /etc/init.d ?
<DorianJaminais> I tried with install -m 744 root -o root file /etc/init.d
<geser> use "dh_installinit" in the binary target in your debian/rules
<DorianJaminais> but i get an error saying that I don't have the permission
<DorianJaminais> @geser : thanks, I will look at it
<geser> DorianJaminais: the whole packaging building happens in a "staging" directory, you have to install everything relativ to it
<geser> the contents of that staging directory end in the build deb (and the deb gets unpacked to / during package installation)
<DorianJaminais> actually at first I though doing : install -m 744 root -o root file ${DESTDIR}/../etc/init.d
<cjwatson> if your DESTDIR requires .. after it, then you have DESTDIR set unconventionally
<cjwatson> but aside from that, that is a perfectly normal way to write makefiles
<cjwatson> installation locations should generally have $(DESTDIR) in front of them
<DorianJaminais> okay so I will try with the ${DESTDIR}
<DorianJaminais> thanks
<nigelb> What's the old-fashioned way of getting the source if I'm not running oneiric?
<nigelb> I remember it had something to do wwith the dsc file. Otherwise my memory is drawing a blank
<micahg> nigelb: pull-lp-source in ubuntu-dev-tools works
<nigelb> micahg: ah. Thanks.
<Ampelbein> nigelb: or 'dget <URL_TO_DSC>
<nigelb> dget!
<nigelb> Ampelbein: definitely the one my memory drew a blank on :-)
<tumbleweed> pull-lp-source saves you finding <URL_TO_DSC> :)
<Ampelbein> nigelb: I know the problem. garlic helps ;-)
<nigelb> tumbleweed: I did find pull-lp-source, but I had to refresh my memory on what I used to do.
<nigelb> In a Makefile, is there a global significance for the P in $(P)INSTALL
<nigelb> Okay, for linking changes, is there a hint on how to find where in the Makefile(s) the linking is happening?
<nigelb> I can't find a line yet
<tumbleweed> with a fair number of packages, the makefile is auto-generated, so you want to make sure the right makefile is generated
<nigelb> I think this one isn't autogenerated
<nigelb> and wherever  look, I see $(LIBS) at the eend
<tumbleweed> nigelb: which package are you looking at?
<Ampelbein> nigelb: the problem with link failures often is that libraries are added to $(LDFLAGS), which is wrong.
<nigelb> tumbleweed: scratchbox2
<nigelb> Ampelbein: Right. True here.
<tumbleweed> this package also helpfully hides its gcc arguments :/
<nigelb> I have a talent to pick the hard ones ;)
<nigelb> I guess adding the libraries to CFLAGS is wrong too?
<Ampelbein> nigelb: even more so, yes ;-)
<Ampelbein> nigelb: libraries should go to LIBS
<nigelb> Ampelbein: Isn't line 4 here doing that? http://paste.ubuntu.com/630444/
<nigelb> (the wrong thing I mean)
<Ampelbein> yes, that's wrong and is likely the cause of --as-needed issues
<nigelb> This is going to be painful.
<nigelb> Since they're doign the Wrong THing(TM)
<tumbleweed> yes
<tumbleweed> but we fixed a fair bunch of packages in the last cycle, and a few more already this cycle
<nigelb> I'm up for fixing. Just my lack of knowledge/experience playing against me.
<tumbleweed> Yeah, some are really easy, some nasty :)
<nigelb> tumbleweed: suggestions on fixing this one?
<nigelb> Can I do a LIBS declration just like the CFLAGS and then change the entry to put LIBS at the end?
<dholbach> who would like to help me with Ubuntu Developer Week? we still have some open slots available: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek
<dholbach> anything you'd like to talk about or would like somebody to talk about?
<Laney> "Who are MOTU and what do they do?" [not volunteering ;)]
<nigelb> There's also volun-TOLD. ;)
<nigelb> Is http://paste.ubuntu.com/630451/ the right way to modify http://paste.ubuntu.com/630444 so that the linking problems are solved?
<nigelb> Also, if there isn't a patch system in the package, what's the suggested course of action?
<dholbach> Laney, yeah, it'd be nice to have a session like that
<tumbleweed> nigelb: err yes a LIBS sounds good (sorry I've got to run). Suggested course of action is a patch applied directly, and possibly stored in debian/applied-patches too
<nigelb> tumbleweed: thanks :-)
<maco> dholbach: so nigelb is looking at scratchbox2
<maco> when you dget it, there's scratchbox2_2.2.2-2.dsc and scratchbox2_2.2.2-2.tar.gz
<maco> but there's no orig
<maco> from the changelog, it looks like it started out native (no debian revision in the version string) but then transitioned to non-native and the tarball was changed to match the non-native version number
<maco> which leaves me wondering if the maintainer has been using a flag to make debuild shut up about the lack of orig
<Laney> it's usually mostly warnings which are rather easy to ignore
<Laney> (by mistake)
<micahg> well, the maintainer is treating it as native when it should be non-native since everything is being kept upstream
<dholbach> maco, it looks like there's no tarball releases, but only stuff tagged in git (I didn't look for very long I must admit)
<frafu_> Hi, I will package a python application (named Onboard) with distutils-extra. The package requires version 2.10 of dist-utils-extra. However, version 2.27 of distutils-extra has a bug that breaks the package building of Onboard. That bug has been fixed in version 2.28 of distutils-extra. My question: should I keep 2.10 as the required version of distutils-extra for the package, or raise it to 2.28? Thanks in advance for any advic
<maco> dholbach: is that the usual thing to do for "stuff tagged in git"? i wouldve done a pristine-tar on it...
<maco> (relevant to me as spim upstream has stopped releasing tarballs, just has svn, and i need to package a new tag)
<dholbach> maco, no, I probably would do it differently
<dholbach> if you need to make changes in Ubuntu for it now, I'd be pragmatic and just change whatever fixes the problem you're after :)
<Laney> there's nothing really wrong with it, but arguably he should use non-native version numbers
<micahg> Laney: there is something wrong with it, it's not a Debian native project
<highvoltage> 2/win 6
<Laney> why must it be to be a native package?
<cjwatson> maco: it sometimes happens by mistake when maintainers move their source trees around or whatever and forget to ensure that the .orig.tar.gz is in the parent directory
<cjwatson> if it's in Debian, I'd suggest poking the Debian maintainere
<cjwatson> they probably didn't mean to do it that way
<Laney> I almost uploaded tomboy as a native package just now, because I forgot to convert to 3.0 (quilt) when switching to bz2 origs :-)
<maco> nigelb: you're the one fixing the ftbfs... you do the poking :P
<Laney> the warnings are all too easy to miss
<cjwatson> once you're in 3.0 format, dpkg-source stops you getting it wrong - that's one of the reasons 3.0 (native) and 3.0 (quilt) exist as explicitly separate formats
<Laney> indeed
<nigelb> maco: heh
<maco> dholbach: well, when i make changes to spim, itll be in debian and ubuntu, as i'm one of the maintainers for it in debian, and it now ftbfs
<Laney> But personally I'd be happy with 1.0 erroring out based on the version
<dholbach> maco, hm?
<cjwatson> Laney: there are too many cases of people doing it deliberately for that, I think
<maco> dholbach: the "if you need to make changes in ubuntu for it now, just change whatever fixes the problem" bit... we're nowhere near feature freeze. i'll be mking the changes in debian and requesting a sync
<Laney> cjwatson: Sure, as a preference or something.
<Laney> defaults are hard to change
<cjwatson> I suspect buxy feels that doing much further work on 1.0 is a waste of time at this point ...
<Laney> oh yes, I don't expect it to happen â¦
<micahg> Laney: ugh, I thought there was a policy, but can't find it, so I guess I was wrong, apparently there was a heated discussion about this 2 years ago: debian 544981
<ubottu> Debian bug 544981 in developers-reference "Discourage native packages that are not tightly specific to Debian" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/544981
<Laney> micahg: Right, I think it's another one of Those Things really.
<Laney> i.e. a best practice issue that you're encouraged to consider, but can go against if you decide it's right
<micahg> yep, as confusing as it may be for everyone else :-/
<Laney> 'mr' is a recent one I've come across
<Laney> but I guess you could consider releasing to Debian as making a new upstream release and debian/changelog as your changelog ...
<cjwatson> that's a bit different from the case where the project *does* have a separate upstream existence but is released in native format anyway
 * maco looks at planet and snorts at "an automated version of cking"
<Laney> I don't know anything about this particular package, but I do note a debian/ directory in git
<Laney> anyway I'd moved to speaking more generally, and see that all the arguments have been had in that bug already so there's no need to go over them again :-)
<nigelb> I think i hit bigger bugs in this package with my changes
<nigelb> Now I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/630480/ while building scractchbox2, and the file doesn't eexit. It seems to be autogenerated.
<frafu__> Sorry, I had a crash. So I am repositing my question again: I will package a python application (named Onboard) with distutils-extra. The package requires version 2.10 of dist-utils-extra. However, version 2.27 of distutils-extra has a bug that breaks the package building of Onboard. That bug has been fixed in version 2.28 of distutils-extra. My question: should I keep 2.10 as the required version of distutils-extra for the pack
<tumbleweed> nigelb: still stuck? If so, can I see your current debdiff
<pcpratts> hi! is there a standard way to support both a gui and command line installer?  I need to collect some settings from the user
<directhex> pcpratts, at package install time?
<pcpratts> directhex: yes
<pcpratts> directhex: I could make two build scripts and make 2 different deps, but I don't know if that is generally desired
<directhex> pcpratts, yes, this is how debconf works - it supports multiple "frontends", and uses the configured one by default (which is the gnome one on ubuntu, the kde one on kde, the text one in a console)
<pcpratts> directhex: deps = debs
<pcpratts> okay
<pcpratts> directhex: are there any debconf bindings for java that you know of?
<directhex> er, no. you'd write a bash script for your package's post-install, which invokes debconf at the correct places. you can make it so the result of that is to run something with given parameters, though
<directhex> you wouldn't query the debconf database from inside your app, but you'd use it to craft a config file
<directhex> http://www.fifi.org/doc/debconf-doc/tutorial.html
<pcpratts> directhex: okay.  thanks so much.  I can see how I can put something together.  thanks also for the tutorial link
<directhex> pcpratts, i wouldn't say it's particularly intuitive, but it's powerful and does exactly what it needs to
<pcpratts> directhex: haha, just like most of the things you need to do to make a deb
<pcpratts> directhex: I'm not bashing, debian and ubuntu rules.  but I never cared for make or shell scripts
<directhex> debhelper is pretty easy, for many build systems
<directhex> some build systems it's more difficult
<pcpratts> directhex: yeah, all my code is in Java, so debhelper is kinda weird to use with anty
<pcpratts> ant*
<directhex> i don't doubt it
<maco> pcpratts: i think you want to talk to jamespage
<maco> he's apparently pretty masterful with java/ant stuff
<pcpratts> maco: I've got most everything working except now someone wants a console installer
<pcpratts> marco: we'll just have to see if my package gets accepted though
<blackmoon-105> hi, i'm try to package bt drivers with dkms, but i receive an error: http://pastebin.com/Yq7gDpUP my dkms.conf is here: http://pastebin.com/99Wp7ukb
<pcpratts> I am trying to use debconf.  I am doing most of the packaging by hand because I use java alot.  my config file is not getting put into the .deb.  any suggestions?
<pcpratts> I don't see any relevant debhelper commands
<pcpratts> I think I found it: dh_installdebconf
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-22
<nigelb> tumbleweed: still stuck, yes. Let me get the debdiff. I got past one problem and hit another.
<dholbach> good morning
<X3lectric> is there anyone who is a expert with debian packaging? I require some help with some packaging that should work on ppa and fails to build yet teh only differnce is the version of the packges being built
<X3lectric> https://launchpad.net/~x3lectric/+archive/nvidia-vdpau
<X3lectric> the nvidia drivers fail to build yet the packaging is identical to https://launchpad.net/~team-iquik/+archive/nvidia-vpau/+packages
<X3lectric> tried variatons of the packging and erros make 0 sense + im not that savvy
 * X3lectric n00b
<tumbleweed> X3lectric: what are you trying to do? backport drivers?
<X3lectric> er no
<X3lectric> not backport
<X3lectric> its actual debian packages for those distros
<X3lectric> https://launchpad.net/~team-iquik/+archive/nvidia-vpau/+packages
<X3lectric> see the drivers there were built ok on this ppa https://launchpad.net/~x3lectric/+archive/nvidia-vdpau
<tumbleweed> X3lectric: backport means build for an older release
<X3lectric> I know
<X3lectric> backpost mean using the current debian packaging which is not the case
<X3lectric> backport
<tumbleweed> the version that's failing to build on lucid and karmic (which is out of support, btw) is the version currently shipping in oneriric
<X3lectric> yea but look at the 270 version bilt ok back then
<tumbleweed> I'm not suprised it's not building on lucid or karmic, they look like complicated packages and could easily depend on things only available in newer relaeses
<X3lectric> now it wont even build those
<X3lectric> not a dependency issue
<tumbleweed> well, not a stated dependency
<X3lectric> ok lemme explain
<X3lectric> https://launchpad.net/~team-iquik/+archive/nvidia-vpau/+packages
<X3lectric> the packages there for drivers
<X3lectric> they built ok
<X3lectric> now if I upload ppa7 to superceed the same packages and rebuild with no changes except that it fails
<tumbleweed> err no, I see a different version in that PPA
<X3lectric> Show details nvidia-graphics-drivers - 270.41.19-0ubuntu1~lucid1~ppa4 	(changes file) 	x3lectric 	2011-05-23 	Published 	Lucid 	Misc 	All builds were built successfully.
<tumbleweed> yes. 270.41.19. Your failing build is 275.09.07. Not identical
<X3lectric> I tried to uplaod same packages because the 275 were failing and now the 270 also fail
<tumbleweed> you can't upload an older version. Version numbers can only go up
<X3lectric> yes
<X3lectric> i tried it on a differnt ppa
<micahg> tumbleweed: well, if the binaries were never published you can (even if they were you still can)
<X3lectric> problem is the 270 can no longer be built evn if they suceeded a few weeks ago
<X3lectric> they fail with same error as the 275
<tumbleweed> micahg: sure
<tumbleweed> X3lectric: the exact same source package that built before? Is it not because of something else in the ppa that was updated?
<tumbleweed> anyway, let's look at one issue at a time
<X3lectric> I didnt do the packaging for lucid or karmic Im reusing previous packaging by other people only modifying the drivers versions on the stated files
<X3lectric> ok
<X3lectric> pls
<X3lectric> if you can help and guide me
<X3lectric> tumbleweed: I used dget -xu https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates/+files/nvidia-graphics-drivers_270.29-0ubuntu1%7Elucid%7Exup2.dsc
<X3lectric> that I modifies for the 270.41.19
<X3lectric> so every file that mentioned the 270.29 I updated it to match the newer version
<X3lectric> took 6 tries to build on ppa
 * tumbleweed is having a quick look, but these packages are big and gnarly. I'd suggest getting more familiar with debian packaging, with simpler packages.
<X3lectric> right
<X3lectric> since no one guided me at all untill now
<tumbleweed> basically, as you can see from the build log, the error is in debian/nvidia_supported
<X3lectric> and i dont have problems with smaller packages
<X3lectric> ok
<X3lectric> so something in nvidia supported wasnt correctly updated?
<X3lectric> i dont understand the error
<tumbleweed> read the source, and you can see where it came from
<tumbleweed> however, in this case I'm guessing the problem is that rules.lucid isn't included any more (and thus presumably the logic that would make it use rules.lucid, so maybe you need to see what that was doing differently
<tumbleweed> or you could talk to the guy who maintains it, but I doubt he's that interested in backports to karmic :P
<X3lectric> correct me if im worng
<X3lectric> but the debian packages as long as their origin is the distro they inteded for they should build any version of drivers or packages as long as the changes point to new versions where applicable
<tumbleweed> theoretically yes, assuming the maintainer cares enough to specify all the correct versioned dependancies and all the necessary quirks for older releases
<tumbleweed> practically, *well* maintained packages tend to be backportable to supported releases, but may require other backports too, and complicated packages are very likely to require modifications
<X3lectric> even if the origin of the packages are based on official releases
<tumbleweed> yes
<X3lectric> those since are official should already be sorted that way
<tumbleweed> no
<X3lectric> what you mean no
<tumbleweed> just because a package is in an officaial release doesn't mean it can be backported with no changes. There is no such requirement.
<X3lectric> but im not backporting
<X3lectric> what tells the ppa to build the official version should work and already account for all dependencies
<X3lectric> heck the fact that what use to build ok now doesnt tells me the error is somewhere else
<X3lectric> but since im not any sort of expert its illogical and i dont have skills to correct what not only doesnt make sense why it fails but its beyond my skills
<X3lectric> for e,g thers a erro it says Failed to find the list.... what list?
<tumbleweed> read the script that outputs the error. I don't know what list either, it looks like a symbol list, but I'm not about to invest an hour or two in understanding this package
<Laney> the source will tell you
<X3lectric> if [ "$ret" -eq 0 ]; then
<X3lectric>     printf '%s\n' '# List generated by nvidia_supported. Do not edit manually.'
<X3lectric>     while read id; do
<X3lectric>       printf 'alias pci:v%08Xd%08Xsv*sd*bc03sc*i* %s %s\n' \
<X3lectric>         0x10de "0x$id" "$modname" "$pkgname"
<X3lectric> ive extracted the driver packages and the output except for the driver verdion is same
<X3lectric> heck all files are same
<X3lectric> except for in this case driver version numbers
<tumbleweed> but what's inside them is different, and this script looks inside them to generate the modaliases
<X3lectric> I actually dont need the modaliases since im not using gdm
<X3lectric> thers a note on the drivers
<X3lectric> # This is a nasty kluge, but it seems to work. Better check the output when
<X3lectric> # upgrading to a new release of the nvidia driver, though.
<X3lectric> thast on the nvidia_current
<tumbleweed> yes, I read that file
<X3lectric> i mean nvidia_supported
<tumbleweed> if you don't need it, don't call it from debian/rules
<X3lectric> ill try and see
<c_korn> how can I prevent that quilt edit opens a new instance of gedit? in 10.10 just a new tab was opened
<c_korn> how can I prevent that quilt edit opens a new instance of gedit? in 10.10 just a new tab was opened
<tumbleweed> c_korn: export a sensible value for $EDITOR ?
<c_korn> actually I have an alias for quilt: alias quilt="EDITOR=gedit quilt"
<Ampelbein> c_korn: add --new-document to $EDITOR
<c_korn> Ampelbein: this has strange effects. if I open a new gedit instance and type something without saving, quilt edit now opens the to be edited file in the same instance as a tab but also creates a new empty tab. if I open a text file in gedit and then quilt edit then the to be edited file is opened in a complete new instance and also a new empty tab is created.
<Ampelbein> c_korn: that sounds indeed strange. can you test what happens if you manually open some files with gedit fromt he command line?
<c_korn> gedit <file 1> creates the first instance of gedit and opens the file (the gedit process runs in the terminal so I cannot run another command there). I open another terminal and run gedit <file 2>. the file is opened in the same gedit instance as a tab and the gedit process ends there in the terminal so I can type another command
<c_korn> Ampelbein: ^
<Ampelbein> c_korn: that sounds about right (you can prepend '&' to the command line to continue work in one terminal)
<tumbleweed> although quilt will need to have a way of knowing that you've finished editing (normally when the command returns, it's done. I'm a vim user, so I don't know how you are supposed to do that)
<c_korn> why does quilt have to know about finished editing? It should just pick the state when I do quilt refresh. If I was still editing there, then it is my fault.
<tumbleweed> oh, fair enough
<c_korn> quilt edit for me is just a shortcut for me for quilt add and manually opening the file
<tumbleweed> yes
 * tumbleweed is sufferincg from lack of sleep, which is probably why I'm lurking on IRC
<c_korn> heh ;)
<Ampelbein> c_korn: after some testing it seems to be a gedit problem. If I do 'gedit doc1 &' and (in the same terminal) do 'gedit --new-document doc2' I get a new empty tab
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Sounds like the perfect time for a complex merge.
<tumbleweed> heh
<c_korn> Ampelbein: what is --new-document supposed to do now? is the new empty tab intentional when opening a file with --new-document?
<Ampelbein> c_korn: hmm, maybe I read the man page wrong and it just means to open a new document in a new tab.
<Ampelbein> c_korn: I thought it was an option to open the file in a new tab instead of new window.
<Ampelbein> c_korn: but testing it further it seems that 'gedit doc1 & gedit doc2' does the right thing and only opens one instance of gedit.
<c_korn> Ampelbein: which would mean the problem is in quilt?
<Ampelbein> c_korn: fwiw, I can't reproduce the issue in oneiric.
<c_korn> hm, ok. which means it is already fixed.
<c_korn> now we need to backport the patch
<Ampelbein> c_korn: quilt hasn't changed in over a year
<c_korn> hm, so it has to be gedit which changed
<c_korn> does someone know about a policy for packaging gem applications?
<paultag> c_korn: they just changed policy, I got a mail about it
<paultag> c_korn: let me see if I can dig it up, I got it a bit ago
<paultag> c_korn: http://pastebin.com/2d1Wa1KS
<paultag> c_korn: http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Ruby/RubyInWheezy#Changes_to_rubygems_packaging â that might be what you're looking for
<c_korn> paultag: awesome, thank you very much!
<paultag> c_korn: rock on, man
<pcpratts> hi.  is there a way to dynamically build a menu for a debconf template?
<pcpratts> I tried to modify the appropriate templates file in /var/lib/dpkg/info
<pcpratts> is there a tool I need to run to re-sync the modified template?
<pcpratts> okay I got it
<pcpratts> sorry for bothering
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-23
<Jarvis> Is it valid to advise somone to upgrade from karmic > lucid, for futher updates? The package the users bug report refers to (miro) appears to be a new major revision in lucid and above.
<cjwatson> Jarvis: well, karmic is no longer supported ...
<Jarvis> kk, i just wanted to make sure before i went ahead and did so :p
<directhex> karmic->lucid is a supported move to make, and lucid still receives updates. so "yes"
<highvoltage> hey broder
<Jarvis> would someone mind tagging 423514 as won't fix for me please? Thanks.
<paultag> Jarvis: just because Karmic is EOL does not mean it's WONTFIX
<Jarvis> oh ?
<paultag> Jarvis: you should have asked to test on the most recent version and verify it's not still present
<Jarvis> ok
<paultag> Jarvis: bryce marked that high, so it was a bug and an important one at one point
<broder> highvoltage: hey, how goes?
<Jarvis> thanks paultag
<paultag> Jarvis: sure. Keep rock'n.
<highvoltage> broder: hey good thanks and you? tomorrow I'll have some time for backports, not 100% sure where to start though but I guess I'll just dive in and get an idea of what seems important right now
<broder> highvoltage: lucid-backports is probably the best place to start, just because it's the worst off at the moment
<highvoltage> broder: yep I thought so too
<broder> highvoltage: certainly a lot of those bugs aren't actually backports bugs
<broder> or affect packages too core to legitimately test
<broder> (i think someone requested an natty -> lucid openssh-client backport, for instance)
<broder> when i've had time, i've mostly focused on trying to keep maverick and natty under control, so i haven't really done much triage on lucid
<highvoltage> broder: at work we're planning to upgrade a lot of hardy servers (and vz guests) to lucid so I'll probably look into lucid server backports too if I find ones that are interesting
<broder> highvoltage: sounds awesome. feel free to ping me if you find bugs that are ready to go, but don't feel like you need feedback before asking the reporter for additional work
<highvoltage> ok great, thanks
<highvoltage> broder: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lucid-backports/+bug/795602 requests the backport from natty. would it be better to get it from oneiric instead or should a backport come from a stable release?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 795602 in lucid-backports "Please backport aptitude 0.6.3-3.2" [Undecided,New]
<broder> backport aptitude> ahhh. that on its own sounds terrifying, but let me take a look
<broder> generally we're fine with backports from dev releases
<broder> (we do have packages in natty-backports already, for instance)
<highvoltage> (ah)
<highvoltage> well if it looks like aptitude will be complicated for some reason then I could probably find something simpler to start with
<broder> i dont' think it's necessarily complicated, although i do see a bunch of problematic factors in play
<broder> so here's what i see when i look at that bug:
<broder> (a) i bet aptitude has a fair number of rdepends
<broder> (b) an oneiric -> maverick backport would also require a oneiric -> natty backport, with all the testing that entails. natty -> maverick would definitely be easier
<broder> (c) "I've just run into this nasty bug in aptitude" immediately says to me "maybe this should be an SRU of some sort"
<highvoltage> ah I haven't really considered B much
<highvoltage> but yes it does indeed sound more like a candidate for an SRU
<broder> looking at the debian bug, the patch to support preferences.d is pretty miniscule. i would probably ping the SRU team and see what they thought of SRU'ing that patch
<highvoltage> so what usually happens during upgrades? does update manager remove backports or do you just stay with your backport until a newer one from the archive arrives?
<broder> update-manager will leave backports turned on
<broder> which is why we require the intermediate upgrades
<broder> example:
<broder> if maverick has 0.1, natty has 0.2, and oneiric has 0.3
<broder> and you want to backport oneiric to maverick
<broder> you also have to backport oneiric to natty
<highvoltage> ok
<broder> there should never be a valid release upgrade path (LTS or normal) that causes the version number of a package to decrease if you have backports turned on on both ends
<highvoltage> ok, I don't quite understand why yet but I'll remember that
<broder> i think update-manager might treat it as vanished from the archive or something like that
<highvoltage> ah yes
<highvoltage> is there a tracker for SRUs?
<highvoltage> (I guess I should just google for that instead of pesting :p)
<broder> there is an sru tracker, but i can't find it at the moment
<broder> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru
<broder> (linked from !sru)
<broder> ahem
<broder> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<highvoltage> yeah I smikked through that just before asking :)
<highvoltage> *skimmed
<paultag> Hey, MOTU. Anyone know if there's a feed anywhere of uploaded packages?
<micahg> paultag: the $RELEASE-changes lists on lists.u.c?
<micahg> an actual feed? idk...
<ajmitch> there used to be an rss feed from that
<paultag> micahg: I'm looking for something easily machine digestable, so I can report stuff back to my Nook
<paultag> yeah I remember something like that ajmitch
<ajmitch> seveas used to have that somewhere, I don't know what currently exists for it
<paultag> hurmm.
<micahg> paultag: the archives for lists.ubuntu.com should be machine parseable to some extent
<ajmitch> http://feeds.ubuntu-nl.org/UbuntuChanges says they were going away only last month, fwiw
<paultag> humm
<paultag> I wonder if it's not worth it to integrate into Launchpad, since it parses all this (and has time data) anyway
<ajmitch> launchpad already has some feeds, hidden somewhere
<ajmitch> but I don't know if there's anything for packages accepted into the archive like -changes is
<lifeless> not of uploads
<lifeless> patches accepted to add one
<lifeless> or you can use the API
<paultag> lifeless: I don't want to klobber lp over the api
<paultag> I try to be nice :)
<ajmitch> polling the API is probably less efficient than adding a rss feed view
<paultag> ajmitch: yar, and moreso if it's statically rendered
<lifeless> efficiency is very hard to judge without looking at the implementation :)
<lifeless> the feeds are not static
<paultag> something like ubuntu changes should (and can) be :)
<lifeless> paultag: we do 4M API requests a day; we can handle the odd query from you
<lifeless> paultag: making it static is only a win if its accessed more often than it changes.
<ajmitch> now I remember, it was bugs that had rss feeds that I could see
<lifeless> ajmitch: yes, and projects
<lifeless> we have a framework to add feeds; its a bit over engineered
<dholbach> good morning
<tumbleweed> ~
<dholbach> hey tumbleweed
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<c_korn> what could be the reason why dpkg-gensymbols does not output anything for a package which definitely has a shared library in usr/lib ?
<Ampelbein> c_korn: libraries not in debian/tmp and wrong -P option?
<c_korn> the library has to be in debian/tmp also?
<c_korn> the files are here: $ ls debian/libsph1/usr/lib/*.so*
<X3lectric> can someone help me fix this https://launchpadlibrarian.net/73961702/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.nvidia-graphics-drivers_275.09.07-0ubuntu1~lucid1~ppa9_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<c_korn> and now dpkg-gensymbols -plibsph1 outputs nothing
<c_korn> Ampelbein: ^
<Ampelbein> c_korn: 'dpkg-gensymbols -plibsph1 -Pdebian/libsph1'
<c_korn> Amaranth: oh, ok. did not know I had to give both arguments. thank you!
<c_korn> eh, Ampelbein
<tumbleweed> dholbach: hi. sorry, busy morning
<dholbach> tumbleweed, no worries :)
<X3lectric> morning tumbleweed
<X3lectric> morning dolbach
<X3lectric> tumbleweed I fixed the erros but now I get a really odd one
<X3lectric> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/73961702/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.nvidia-graphics-drivers_275.09.07-0ubuntu1~lucid1~ppa9_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dholbach> hi X3lectric
<tumbleweed> X3lectric: you know you can build and debug the build locally rather than try an dguess from PPA build logs
<tumbleweed> but in this case, the reror seems pretty clear
<X3lectric> tubleweed, prolly but like I said I dont know jack about packaging
<X3lectric> its all a stab in the dark
<X3lectric> yes but the rules file i dont get where its causing that
<X3lectric> I the first extraction happens and then a second
<X3lectric> http://pastebin.com/hpsEPwmQ
<X3lectric> i cant see how that happens
<X3lectric> the only way to prevent it is to commnet out the only 86_64 --extract after the driver has been made executable
<X3lectric> since I have no clew where the first extract is ocurring
<X3lectric> Ive emailed one driver maintainer but hes got 3 emails didnt wanna spam him
<X3lectric> tumbleweed: commenting the only extract worked O.o
<X3lectric> its built 1386
<X3lectric> makes zero sense
<X3lectric> danged ISP
<X3lectric> its building ok for karmic and lucid just waiting for the amd64 builds
<X3lectric> thx for your "help"
<X3lectric> definetly thank you for taking the time
 * X3lectric thinks tumbleweed is doing exactly what nick suggests
<Laney> there's really no need to be rude to people
<X3lectric> who was rude
<X3lectric> Laney: I hope that wasnt directed at me, since i dont see where any rudeness was implied
<cjwatson> X3lectric: making comments about people's nicks and associated inactivity is generally considered rude
<dholbach> barry will give a session about porting to dh_python2 in #ubuntu-pyjam in 24 minutes
<X3lectric> cjwatson: only if you dont have a sense of humour and thats the first time I ever heard such "unspoken" rules beside if it was rude im sure Tumbleweed can tell me himself.
<X3lectric> as I said no rudenss was implied, your guys are suggesting staright away some sort of malice, that is kinda jugdmental which is actually rude...
<X3lectric> dholbach: do you have some packaging experince as in starting from source?
<dholbach> X3lectric, I would suggest looking at similar packages and how it's done there and also check out http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/packaging-guide/html/debian-dir-overview.html
<dholbach> X3lectric, I need to take my dog for a walk now - best just ask questions in here - I'm sure somebody else can help you find an answer
<X3lectric> oh what dog you have? have a nice walk...
<X3lectric> im looking for a partner/mentor not necessarily help
<dholbach> http://murphy.holba.ch/_IMG_2563.html - thanks - see you later :)
<X3lectric> laters :p
<X3lectric> oooooohhh cute...
<tumbleweed> X3lectric: I chose my nick for a reason, sure :) I'm happy to provide some help, but not going to do all the work for you. (I'm also a full time student who has a thesis to finish, and I can't spend all day playing with linux)
<X3lectric> I wouldnt expect anyone do do all work for me.... some people think that because i made a commnet about your nickname that was rude [12:41] * X3lectric thinks tumbleweed is doing exactly what nick suggests
<tumbleweed> X3lectric: no problem
<X3lectric> Honestly im shocked that peopel are so jugmental since there was no malice intended
 * X3lectric actually thinks being jugdmental is actually very rude, more so then making some innocuous/humourous comment
<tumbleweed> X3lectric: I have no desire to continue that part of the discussion, don't worry about it. But also, be patient.
<X3lectric> tumbleweed: I actually managed to fix the problems with the slew of erros and kicked the ppa backside into gear
<X3lectric> tumbleweed: ya I think im patinet after being at this for nealry a week
<X3lectric> tumbleweed: good luck with thesis
<tumbleweed> X3lectric: it took me months to get my first packages into ubuntu. A week isn't much. And I think everyone has to prioritise their time based on their own idea of what's important.
<ScottK> X3lectric: If you're trying to get a package into Ubuntu, you might also consider trying to get it into Debian from where it will be automatically sync'ed into Ubuntu.  See mentors.debian.net.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: he's maintaining some backported drivers in a PPA
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> OK.
 * ScottK is busy with $work and not following the details.
<X3lectric> its not backported lol
<X3lectric> its actually new upstream releases
<X3lectric> ScottK: I would release into debian but I already have enough problems to be jusmping through more hoops
<ScottK> It may actually be easier for new packages for updates to existing ones though you'd have to work with the existing maintainer.
<X3lectric> exactly
<X3lectric> the keyowrd being having to work with someone else most likely in another timezone and not intersted in doing what Im doing
<X3lectric> current maintainers dont want to do it and stopped doing anything less than natty they no longer intersted
<ScottK> Nevermind then.
<X3lectric> im neverminding hehe
<X3lectric> i wouldnt mid some help and mentoring
<X3lectric> thats not likely either ;)
<ScottK> If you have specific questions I may be able to answer them.  I can't promise any general help.
<X3lectric> notanymore but thx
<nigelb> jtaylor: I remember you once told me what the most common fix for the LD change fix was when using autotools.
<nigelb> jtaylor: What was it it? I forgot and my grep of logs don't find it :(
<jtaylor> wrong use of LDFLAGS instead of LIBS or LDADD
<nigelb> so, switching that to LIBS or LDADD should possible fix it?
<jtaylor> if autotools orders the commandline wrong, yes
<nigelb> awesome, I'll try that. thanks!
<Laney> warp10: I am uploading sparkleshare to oneiric now
<directhex> realization: i'm not enough people to shepherd the mono 2.10 transition solo, given pressures on my time.
<ajmitch> ok, order in some minions
<directhex> one of the biggest bits of work needing doing is getting monodevelop working in pure 4.0-only form. i don't have time to work on the little bits
<Laney> write an email to the lists calling for help
<Laney> (and mention to check with us if unsure)
 * ajmitch digs around for a local branch of monodevelop
<directhex> Laney, ubuntu-motu@ you reckon?
<Laney> directhex: probably too dead. that and devel
<micahg> there'e already a nice pretty transition for mono :)
<directhex> micahg, needs more warm bodies though. i can only do a handful of packages a day if that
 * ajmitch heard that Laney has plenty of spare time for it
<Laney> busy writing perl
<ajmitch> a likely story
<ajmitch> damn alioth
<ajmitch> finally able to clone with git+ssh on a new sid VM, had to run ssh-agent & add the other ssh key
<micahg> directhex: after I get the stuff I need for the libnotify transition done, I might be able to help, is a no change rebuild usually enough?
<ajmitch> http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono210TransitionTODO is the debian list, there are a bunch of other possible fixes
<directhex> micahg, mostly no-change or simplistic changes (e.g. tweaked build-deps). the trick is that *apps* need to be done first. when all apps are done, libs & plugins can be done
<directhex> micahg, sadly the apps are more likely to need tweaking than the libs
<directhex> anyway, back to monodevelop
<micahg> directhex: I assume the transition hierarchy reflects that?
<directhex> micahg, nah, ben is stupid and shows pretty much the exactly wrong order.
<micahg> :(
<micahg> directhex: well, apps first is the exact opposite of everything else
<directhex> micahg, basically, a 4.0 app can load 2.0-3.5 libs. the reverse is not true.
<micahg> hi xnox` are you still interested in xiphos
<micahg> directhex: ah, that's a nice feature, makes sense, but wouldn't the 2.0-3.5 libs be NBS and still around for the apps?
<jtaylor> will it does not always work, keepass2 for example does not run with 2.0 libs
<micahg> oh, now I remember, mono has a special way of "registering" libs
<ajmitch> mono is special in lots of ways
<Awsoonn> hi all, I'm wondering if there is a wiki page for debugging unity that you can point me to
<Awsoonn> I just upgraded to unity and got myself a blank desktop. :(
<micahg> Awsoonn: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/FilingBugs
<Awsoonn> micahg: thax
<xnox`> micahg: yes, I'm kinda interested in xiphos. xulrunner is getting killed right?
<xnox`> micahg: I'm going to sleep. I have commented on the xiphos bug on lp. I see it's targeted for alpha2. There is similar bug report in debian. I will look into them.
<xnox`> I'm off to sleep now. Hopefully will catch you tomorrow (~UTC time)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-24
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> As per comment #8 of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sun-java6/+bug/784604
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 784604 in sun-java6 (Ubuntu) "a new java version is available for download" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<kaushal> How do i proceed
<micahg> kaushal: we can't sync, it needs to go in partner
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> micahg: is there a way to contact someone ?
<kaushal> for this process
<kaushal> micahg: please suggest further
<geser> kaushal: try contacting Brian Thomason (https://launchpad.net/~brian-thomason) as he did the recent uploads of sun-java6 to the partner archive
<kaushal> geser: Thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<tumbleweed> nigelb: Any progress on a linker-ftbfs-jam announcement?
<nigelb> tumbleweed: argh, sorry was crammed. Will get it out today or early tomorrow.
<tumbleweed> nigelb: np
<pcpratts> hi! does anyone know what I have to do to get the following line to work: invoke-rc.d mypackagename start?  I see a link in /etc/rc5.d/ that works
<micahg> zul: do you mind if I sync python-webob?
<zul> nope
<micahg> k, thanks
<ScottK> I always pronounce that we-bob.  I suspect the author meant web-ob, but it's funnier my way.
<elvisd> Hi all. I'm trying to fix my first bug in unity (bitesize) but I can't terminate the procedure. The bzr bd... returns an error (debian/changelog not found). Can someone help me?
<mannic> hi
<mannic> there is someone who can help me on building the last unity trunk in 11.04?
<paissad> hello all, if i want to create a lintian binary override, i have to create "debian/foo.lintian-overrides"
<paissad> right ?
<paissad> assuming that foo is the name of the package ...
<broder> paissad: and be sure that something calls dh_lintian, yeah
<paissad> broder, ok thanks
<broder> (new enough cdbs will. i don't know if dh(1) will. obviously old-style debhelper you do it yourself)
<paissad> broder, cat debian/pms-linux.lintian-overrides
<paissad> pms-linux binary: spelling-error-in-changelog
<paissad> pms-linux binary: package-contains-empty-directory
<paissad> broder, after running debuild with lintian checking, ... i still get the same warnings ...
<broder> paissad: try copying the exact line from lintian (except for the "W: ")
<broder> that's the only way i've ever been able to get lintian overrides to work
<paissad> broder, hmm, except for the W: ?
<broder> right
<paissad> sorry, i don't really see what you mean
<paissad> i inspired from this link http://lintian.debian.org/manual/ch2.html
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-25
<paissad> broder, hmm, i tried to copy exactly the same line from lintian, here is an example
<paissad>  pms-linux: spelling-error-in-changelog informations information
<broder> paissad: sorry, you've exhausted my knowledge of lintian overrides at this point
<paissad> broder, currently, in  my lintian, i don't have 'W:' ..
<paissad> broder, no matter :D, thanks mate
<dilruk> im new here...could use some help
<Ampelbein> dilruk: hi, have you read the packaging guide already?
<dilruk> can u point me there please
<dilruk> i've been reading this
<dilruk> http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/packaging-guide/html/introduction-to-ubuntu-development.html
<Ampelbein> dilruk: that's fine.
<Ampelbein> !packaging | dilruk
<ubottu> dilruk: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<Ampelbein> dilruk: the other links there have even more information. I found it best to try things and then ask when I encountered an error.
<dilruk> great. thanks
<dilruk> $ pbuilder-dist <release> create
<dilruk> im running natty
<dilruk> should i use natty in the <release>
<Ampelbein> dilruk: most likely not. You need to use the codename of the distribution you are building the package for. Since natty is stable now, only high-impact bugs are fixed there. You probably want to create packages for oneiric, the distribution currently in development.
<dilruk> ok thanks for the info
<pdtpatr1ck> how long does it typically take for ur keys to sync? about an hour?
<dilruk> i was wondering too
<Ampelbein> pdtpatr1ck: you can check http://keyserver.ubuntu.com/ if it has your key.
<dilruk> great
<pdtpatr1ck> I have AppleMail - what's the best way to view the encrypted email with my keys? FirePGP is no longer maintained
<pdtpatr1ck> ahh nvm .. figured it out
<ScottK> Ampelbein: I don't think the current packaging guide on p.u.c is very newbie suitable.  The UDD tools (which are all it describes) are not really mature enough for general use.
<ScottK> I think it's still best to point people to the wiki.
<Ampelbein> ScottK: yes, I normally do this in addition to the UDD-guide.
<ScottK> I guess my point is I wouldn't point new people to the UDD guide at all.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-26
<onehundredthirty> (completely) new package from Debian Sid (namely: uwsgi) after a week of presence in archive still not imported into Oneiric. should I just wait a bit longer or filing of explicit sync request is needed?
<ScottK> onehundredthirty: Just wait.
<onehundredthirty> ScottK: OK, I'm all the patience then. thanks for clarification.
<ruhil> i am getting the error "dh: unable to load addon translations:cannot locate Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/translations.pm in @INC (@INC contains <some folder names here>)" while building the package with the command "bzr bd -- -S -us -uc"
<ruhil> i am running natty please help me in resolving this error it's my first build
<Ampelbein> ruhil: hmm, that is part of the dh-translations package.
<Ampelbein> ruhil: where do you get that error?
<ruhil> "dpkd-buildpackage: error: fakeroot: debain/rules clean gave error exit status 2" is it what you were asking?
<Ampelbein> ruhil: no, what package are you trying to build?
<ruhil> the package is unity
<Ampelbein> ruhil: ok. it should work if you install 'dh-translations'. I can't help further though.
<ruhil> Ampelbein: thanx it worked ( i had to install another package quilt)
<shadeslayer_> hi, i was wondering if someone could tell me what the debian/installgen file does
<Ampelbein> shadeslayer: I think they were used to automatically update the *.install files
<Ampelbein> shadeslayer: I don't know if there is still a helper that actually uses them though.
<shadeslayer_> Ampelbein: thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-18
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hi ajmitch, geser, toabctl
<toabctl> hey dholbach
<Laney> ello
<geser> Hi Laney
<iulian> Morning.
 * tumbleweed waves from back home in cape town
<directhex> are you wearing a cape?
<tumbleweed> wouldn't be a bad idea, it's getting chilly
<paultag> Hi there, MOTU. I've recieved a report about one of my maintained packages having a bug by default in Ubuntu, which I've ACK'd and fixed. New upload is sitting in sid - but -P is still affected. I've never done a SRU, but I've got a minimal patch. Should I just apply the patch to the version in -P, call it $VERSIONubuntu1, and push it to a PPA for ACK builds, then ask for it to be sponsored?
<Laney> target to precise-proposed, file a bug report with the required information, seek sponsorship
<Laney> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<paultag> Laney: ACK'd, thank you
<paultag> Laney: bug is sitting as #1014425 - I've triaged it already.
<Laney> cool, then you just need to edit the description to have the required information
<paultag> Should I also attach a debdiff there or use REVU or something? I'm like 3 years out of date on any chance of up-to-date policy
<Laney> attaching the debdiff is fine
<paultag> right, thanks.
<Laney> make sure the changelog closes the SRU bug, and just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to get it on the queue
<paultag> yep
<vibhav> Ill write a poem dedicated to MOTU's one day
<vibhav> :D
<aboudreault> Hi.... I'm trying to use pbuilder-dist in a LXC container and can't get it to work since I've upgraded to precise.
<aboudreault> the problem is related to the mount /proc
<aboudreault> : Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/22607/. mount -t proc proc /proc
<aboudreault> E: debootstrap failed
<aboudreault> are you aware of the issue?
<tumbleweed> isn't chrooting blocked by apparmor in precise? (or something like that)
<aboudreault> it might be, but can't find the proper solution
<aboudreault> tried something I've seen in a launchpad bug with no luck
<stgraber> aboudreault: hallyn replied to your bug report
<aboudreault> stgraber, ha, checking.
<aboudreault> great. it worked.
<jpds> If a package is at version 3.0.2-1 and I prepare an SRU, the SRU's version is 3.0.2-1ubuntu1 or 3.0.2-1ubuntu0.1 ?
<kees> jpds: the latter
<kees> (so that it does not conflict with a possible next-release version numbered 3.0.2-1ubuntu1)
<jpds> kees: Aha, thought so, thanks.
<kees> np :)
<micahg> jpds: depends if it's in a previous release at the same version or not
<kees> that's that too, yes
<micahg> hrm, we have 79 core devs and 72 MOTUs (not including core-devs)
 * ajmitch wonders how many of each have uploaded something in the last 6 months, as a measure of activity
<ajmitch> could probably find out with UDD
<iulian> ajmitch: Core-dev or MOTU? If the latter please don't use UDD or rather don't look for my name.
 * iulian should probably jump in and do so some uploads.
<ajmitch> iulian: not a matter of finding people to pick on, just trying to see how many people are active in each group :)
 * ajmitch should probably do some uploads as well for non-ARB stuff
 * ajmitch waits for micahg to mention asterisk :)
<iulian> Heh. :)
<iulian> I bet he has an evil grin on his face right now. :)
<ajmitch> of course
<micahg> :D
<micahg> out of the top 9 uploaders in precise which account for 50% of the uploads, we have 6 core devs, 2 MOTUs, and 1 Kubuntu dev :)
 * ajmitch shall probably just upload it & not sync, since it built
<micahg> s/precise/quantal/
 * micahg sees that 13 out of the top 50 are MOTU as well
<ScottK> KDE has enough packages that I was one of the top sponsors in precise by virtue of have done one complete KDE SC upload.
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Would you be up for adding the number of uploads next to each name in http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/ubuntu-activity/ - it should make things more sporting.
<ScottK> micahg: Possibly worth mentioning that one or your MOTUs in there is a Xubuntu dev.
 * Laney hasn't done Haskell yet
 * Laney cackles
<ajmitch> Laney: more ABI breakage?
<Laney> I got the boulder to the top of the hill and it just rolled back down again
<ajmitch> oh good, so I can cheat my way onto the charts again? :)
<Laney> first fix it on armel
<ajmitch> that sounds like work, how'd you break it there?
<Laney> blame infinity
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> are you going to get ghc 7.4.2 in?
<Laney> when the time is right
<micahg> ScottK: I only mentioned the Kubuntu dev part since he's not a MOTU or core dev
<ScottK> OK.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-19
<FNStaffa> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<jbitcm-> hello
<jbitcm-> i need help
<jbitcm-> i want to be a ubuntu motu
<FourDollars> me too
<ScottK> Not really the best time of day for it.
<ScottK> During European/US daytime is much better.
<nhandler> Page title
<nhandler> Path
<nhandler> (Ignore that, sorry)
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<iulian> Beautiful morning of Tuesday, isn't it? :)
<dholbach> hey iulian - it is :)
<highvoltage> stgraber, tumbleweed: just got hold of bencer, I reminded him that we need to talk about the release schedule, freezes and the processes that goes along with it
<highvoltage> stgraber, tumbleweed: he's out all week so we're going to do that early next week
<tumbleweed> thanks for the follow-up
<stgraber> highvoltage: sounds good, thanks
<highvoltage> micahg: oops, meant to include you on that too ^^^
<nhandler> /wo/whois tumbleweed
 * tumbleweed is hig/lighted
<astraljava> Hi gang, on previous schroots, I used to go into them with `schroot -c <name> -p`, but for quantal (yes, I've installed the debootstrap from precise-backports), it cannot apparently bind-mount my /home even though I have what seems to be a sane mount-defaults in /etc/schroot/
<astraljava> Maybe I've forgotten a step somewhere. Anyone able to troubleshoot this with me?
<micahg> highvoltage: thanks
<astraljava> FWIW, the problem was a missing 'type=directory' in the schroot.conf file.
<lgp171188> Hi, I am just getting started with contributing to Ubuntu. I was just looking at a few lintian issues that I could fix. I picked up the add-apt-key package for fixing such issues. I just tried to find out if the package sources are picked up from Debian and package in Ubuntu or directly packaged in Ubuntu. I visited the launchpad page of the project and couldn't find out the same. Where can I find such information?
<arand> lgp171188: Hmm, that package hasn't been touched since 2007, is it still relevant (despite it being in the archive)?
<tumbleweed> if it isn't, it should be removed
<arand> lgp171188: And yes, from the changelog it looks like an Ubuntu-only package (which if it is useful, a similar package probably shouldn't be)
<arand> My guess is that it duplicates the "apt-key add" functionality from the base 'apt' package...
<lgp171188> arand: Hmm, does the add-apt-repository package supersede this? Because that is the command I remember using and I thought maybe that was internally using add-apt-key in some way. Looks like I am wrong. Do we have to initiate some process to get it removed?
<arand> apt-file claims: "python-software-properties: /usr/bin/add-apt-repository"
<arand> So a different package
 * highvoltage wishes andrew SB could be on IRC more :)
<lgp171188> arand: Then looks like I will have to pick up some other package. Btw, is there any way of finding out if the package is picked up from debian apart from the changelog?
<arand> I'm not sure, besides looking at packages.debian.org then of course.
<lgp171188> Ok, the next package I picked up was the awn-extras package. Clicking on the ubuntu info page takes me to the page of the package alright. But when I clicked the debian info link, it took me to a package containing the search results for the "awn-extras" keyword search. There was just a python-awn-extras packages which does look different from the ubuntu package awn-extras. How can I confirm the same? I want to know this because it would help me fi
<Laney> broder: I suspect you have a script to create unix users with data harvested from LP. If that were the case, would the source be located somewhere that others could see?
<broder> Laney: hmm, not currently, no
<broder> i could fix that
<Laney> you were just superhumanly fast at creating my account then :P
<broder> err, sorry
<broder> i do have a script
<broder> it is not located somewhere others can see
<Laney> oh, the former but not the latter
<Laney> I get it
<jtaylor> :q
<jtaylor> EWIN
<broder> Laney: can't actually put it in a proper repo or anything right now, but http://paste.ubuntu.com/1049887/
<Laney> cheers
 * Laney stashes
 * ajmitch is sure there was a script like that elsewhere
<Laney> bdrung: tumbleweed: Can we get a new udt release? I am being hit by cyphermox's bug now. Maybe something change in schrootâ¦
<cyphermox> Laney: LVM and btrfs right?
<cyphermox> s/and/or/
<Laney> no
<Laney> just directory on ext4
<cyphermox> ah, interesting
<Laney> I don't see why that fix would be specific to filesystem
<Laney> I guess schroot just changed something
<Laney> anyway, thanks for the fix :-)
<cyphermox> well, it's "not", but there weren't -source aliases created for lvm or btrfs, maybe now it's been totally dropped
<cyphermox> yeah, I got hit by it again yesterday. fortunately the fix is simple and you don't have to re-create the chroots
<bdrung> Laney, tumbleweed: yes, we should do a udt release
<tumbleweed> jbicha: ah, you beat me to pypy
 * tumbleweed wonders if it'll build
<tumbleweed> timed out almost everywhere in Debian (as usual)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-20
<dholbach> good morning
<highvoltage> good morning
<vibhav> hi highvoltage
<Daviey> Does anyone have an LP api snippet for providing a bug number, and confirming there is a Ubuntu bug task for a declared series?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-21
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<Laney> lfaraone: Hey, sugar has just come to my attention. Is that stuff still active? Do you still need the packageset?
<psusi> I realized I made an error a few commits back.  With git, I would either commit a fix, then rebase -i to squash it back into the original commit, or format-patch the last few commits out to patch files and reset them, ammend the errored commit, then apply the patches.  How can I do this with bzr?
<trinichica> (  /j #ubuntu-meeting
<AmberJ_> Hello
<AmberJ_> Is there some rule when should we put files in /usr/lib/ and /usr/lib/UPSTREAM_NAME/ ?
<jtaylor> if its a public library and usable by external applications usr/lib/
<jtaylor> if not usr/lib/upstream
<AmberJ_> Right. Thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-22
<dholbach> good morning
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can i do a udt release?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yup, I picked off the low hanging fruit a day or two ago
<bdrung> tumbleweed: or do you want to do the upload?
 * tumbleweed doesn't care too much
<tumbleweed> thanks for sorting out devscripts dch
<bdrung> tumbleweed: it needed some thought to work on all distributions correctly
<tumbleweed> it does feel like distro-info is going to need some re-architecting when we have more distros
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes, but as long as every distro has a different release model, it makes no sense
<tumbleweed> yup
<bdrung> tumbleweed: when can we drop reverse-build-depends?
<Laney> when reverse-depends gets an offline mode?
<tumbleweed> Laney: reverse-build-depensd is a reverse-depends wrapper
<Laney> oh
<Laney> i thought it was a standalone command
<Laney> or was it before?
<tumbleweed> it used to be
<Laney> i see
<Laney> don't see why it needs removing then
<tumbleweed> bug 910420
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 910420 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[reverse-build-depends] Vanished" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/910420
<tumbleweed> give it another release or two...
<Laney> doesn't cause any harm ...
<tumbleweed> it results in a lintian complaint, because there isn't a manpage
<bdrung> then i want a man page
<Laney> hahaha
<bdrung> uploaded
<blueyed> I am merging vim from unstable for quantal, but get an error from debuild because of a locally modified po file: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Ht1Qefmi Any hint why that is?
<blueyed> debuild output: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=JfHH9RTN
<blueyed> Probably because the po files get rebuild in a different way than upstream does..?!
<geser> blueyed: I usually merge vim by hand (apply the Ubuntu delta) and handle the few patch rejects by hand (usually only debian/changelog)
<geser> and don't bother with updated po-files (I don't know where it comes from in the first place)
<Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1054482/
<AmberJ_> Hello
<Laney> subscribes you to your uploads for X days
<AmberJ_> Do I get it right that dh_make only debianizes the extracted upstream tarball directory?
<AmberJ_> i.e. it only create debian/ ?
<tumbleweed> yes
<AmberJ_> Ah, it created orig.tar.gz as well...
<tumbleweed> that sounds like something you don't want
<tumbleweed> take the .tar.gz you got from upstream and rename it
<AmberJ_> 'man dh_make' says: "Then dh_make proceeds to generate a "debian" subdirectory and the necessary control files in the program source directory." What do "necessary control files" refer to?
<tumbleweed> the things inside debian
<AmberJ_> Ok thanks!
<AmberJ_> I don't want to use dh_make since it confirms settings before it debianizes (thus causing me not being ble to automate with a bash script).
<AmberJ_> s/ble/able
<tumbleweed> why are you automating this?
<tumbleweed> packaging something is something you do once. you keep the package and incrementally improve/update it
<AmberJ_> Upstream devs want a script that automates local deb creation. So that they can build locally (ideally after every commit).
<tumbleweed> keep enough packaging in the trunk then?
<AmberJ_> For PPA, I'll be using incremetally update model (UDD?)
<tumbleweed> LP daily builds are also great for this kind of thing
<tumbleweed> anyawy, dh_make gives you a tempalte. It doesn't give you packaging that's going to work (necessarily)
<AmberJ_> Yes, that's why I can use a script to automate what dh_make does.
<tumbleweed> you might find pkgme does a better job
<AmberJ_> I will keep debian/ in a separate repo. My bash script branches upstream/ AND upstream-debian/ and copies debian/ to upstream/
 * AmberJ_ googles pkgme
<tumbleweed> that sounds like a very sensible approach. It's essentially how one usually does LP daily builds
<AmberJ_> Does "LP daily builds" mean "PPAs"?
<tumbleweed> AmberJ_: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds
<AmberJ_> ok. upstream devs want a script to build locally (on their server) after every commit. LP builds tend to be in queue for hours before they are built.
<tumbleweed> you can use it locally
<AmberJ_> But I didn't knew about LP daily builds. Thank you very much!
<AmberJ_> yes reading
<tumbleweed> it does require you to use bzr, though
<AmberJ_> yes, upstream uses bzr/launchpad
<Laney> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~laney/+junk/lp-subscribe-uploads/view/head:/lp-subscribe-uploads
<Laney> could/should something like that go in udt?
<Laney> wasn't thinking about that when I was writing it, so maybe it needs some adjustment
<tumbleweed> I see subscription and unsubscription, but no actions
<Laney> actions?
<tumbleweed> something that tells you about bugs
<Laney> it doesn't do that
<Laney> it subscribes you so that LP sends you them
<tumbleweed> oh, duh
<tumbleweed> Laney: sorry, got distracted. But, yes (lptools would also be a plausible home, but this is more ubuntu-specific I think)
<dupondje> somebody with chromium installed here ?
<dupondje> if so, please surf to www.hln.be , also getting white screen ?
<FernandoMiguel> slangasek: ping
<slangasek> FernandoMiguel: hi
<FernandoMiguel> slangasek: hi. sorry to bother you
<FernandoMiguel> I'm trying to dig into why last night updates broke both my systems
<FernandoMiguel> one I got back by just installing ia32 libs
<FernandoMiguel> but this laptop is still broken
<FernandoMiguel> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<FernandoMiguel>  ia32-libs : Depends: ia32-libs-multiarch but it is not installable
<slangasek> FernandoMiguel: the error at the bottom of the log you sent me shows you have a broken version of dpkg installed and are affected by bug #1015329.  You'll need to follow the recovery instructions posted in that bug description.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1015329 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "dpkg fails to run after update (error: file triggers record mentions illegal package name `libgtk2.0-0' (for interest in file `/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodules'): ambiguous package name 'libgtk2.0-0' with more than one installed instance)" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015329
<FernandoMiguel> thank you
<FernandoMiguel> ill have a look
<FernandoMiguel> slangasek: thank you once again. that did the trick
<iamfuzz> us
<AmberJ_> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/BzrBuilder#Running_commands_in_recipes says: "Note: Launchpad does not support the run command. "
<AmberJ_> How do we specify that I need to run tools such as cmake or autotools for LP daily builds?
<AmberJ_> s/we/I
<jtaylor> in debian/rules
<AmberJ_> If I have a rule in debian/rules, do I need to specify run command in package.recipe ? I guess no (but then why does link above explicitly mentions about 'run autotools')
<AmberJ_> Or maybe, I don't get it right
<jtaylor> no idea
<jtaylor> quite pointless when launchpad does not support it
<AmberJ_> Ok, let me try building locally on my system without adding 'run autotools'.
<AmberJ> Err... this is weird. Upstream compiles fine if I run: 'cmake .' and then 'make'. But if fails on PPA as well as locally (when using debuild).
<AmberJ> Here's the PPA buildlog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1055180/ (please scroll down to line 3883)
<AmberJ> I don't understand why the build exits with error when using debuild. It builds fine when using 'make'.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-23
<TheLordOfTime> whats the name for the metapackage that installs all the packaging related tools?
<Laney> TheLordOfTime: I guess you mean packaging-dev
<PriceChild> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<PriceChild> !ops
<IdleOne> PriceChild: ?
<PriceChild> what up my homey
<IdleOne> why did you call for ops?
<PriceChild> to be banned
<PriceChild> !ops
<PriceChild> kline me
 * tumbleweed has no idea why anyone would want to be banned
<PriceChild> i do! i get high easily
<tumbleweed> I suppose we al have odd persuits...
<IdleOne> Pricey: if you could remove your troll self :)
<PriceChild> yay the real pricechild is here to kline me!
<PriceChild> ban me
<PriceChild> i want to get high!
<PriceChild> ban me
<IdleOne> impersonating a channel op and staff member to boot, good idea.
<PriceChild> i am a mental retard by the way
<tumbleweed> ah, normality
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<scarneiro> PaoloRotolo: Hi
<PaoloRotolo> scarneiro, hi!
<TheLordOfTime> can i use Lintian on Ubuntu to check for lintian cleanliness for a Debian-destined package?
<jbicha> TheLordOfTime: yes, lintian on Debian and lintian on Ubuntu is basically the same
<TheLordOfTime> jbicha:  so i pretty much just need to run Lintian on the package to find whether its lintian clean, and fix any warnings and/or errors that arise?
<jbicha> yes, being lintian clean is important :)
<TheLordOfTime> definitely
<TheLordOfTime> i once had a package that was lintian unclean by only one error, and that error was i forgot to change the standards number xD
<TheLordOfTime> and they were like "You're x.x. 1 behind in the standards number, fix it"
<tumbleweed> sponsoring is an opportunity to teach, so many of us tend to be pretty pedantic sponsors
<TheLordOfTime> indeed
<TheLordOfTime> although having said this, the debian people rejected a package even though it was lintian clean because they "Didn't agree with the way the source was run after installation"
<TheLordOfTime> so.. i kinda gave up on trying to get packages into Debian (then again, i havent had any need to get anything into Debian lately, so... :P)
<tumbleweed> was it totally crazy?
<TheLordOfTime> source code without any compiled executable (because the entire thing was 100% python...)
<TheLordOfTime> so...
<TheLordOfTime> *shurgs*
<TheLordOfTime> probably, although its irrelevant now
<tumbleweed> did the sponsor have any experience with python?
<tumbleweed> every DD has their own requirements and foibles
<TheLordOfTime> i know right?
<TheLordOfTime> don't know, but idc anymore :P
<jbicha> Debian teams are awesome, if you can find a team that would be interested in your package
<jbicha> it makes sponsorship easier and reduces the MIA Debian maintainer problem
<tumbleweed> team-maintained packages++
<TheLordOfTime> ^ that
<TheLordOfTime> but i digress :P
<AmberJ> Err... this is weird. Upstream compiles fine if I run: 'cmake .' and then 'make'. But if fails on PPA as well as locally (when using debuild).
<AmberJ> Here's the PPA buildlog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1055180/ (please scroll down to line 3883)
<AmberJ> I don't understand why the build exits with error when using debuild. It builds fine when using 'make'.
<AmberJ> (Timezone repost)
<Yankees52> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<Yankees52> ban me
<Yankees52> ban me
<Yankees52> ban me
<Yankees52> please!
<Yankees52> !staff
<ubottu> hey Christel, Dave2, Gary, KB1JWQ, Levia, Martinp23, SportsChick, VorTechS, jayne, jenda, marienz, nalioth, niko, nhandler, rob, dax, stew, or tomaw, I could use a bit of your time :)
<Yankees52> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<Yankees52> please!
 * iulian sighs.
<Yankees52> lucas: ban me
<Yankees52> yay ban coming!
<bazhang> Yankees52, lets stop this
<directhex> i'm confused.
<james_w> AmberJ, could it be a gcc version difference?
<james_w> looking at opencog-0.1/opencog/learning/moses/main/moses_exec.cc:828 might give some clues
<AmberJ_> james_w, you mean the build breaking maybe because of using a different version of gcc/g++?
<james_w> AmberJ, yeah, possibly
<AmberJ_> Unfortunately, I'm unable to understand what is wrong with 828 of http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~opencog-dev/opencog/trunk/view/head:/opencog/learning/moses/main/moses_exec.cc
<AmberJ_> james_w, I tried building in the same VM... The build breaks with debuild but works fine when manually using cmake/make. (I guess same VM/install cannot have two different versions of gcc)
<james_w> AmberJ, it might be something in the environment then
<AmberJ_> Not sure if this is the cause but I noticed something... The debuild build breaks when I manually copy orig.tar.gz and debian/ from another repo. The same debuild build works fine if I use 'bzr dh-make' for debianization..
<AmberJ_> I thought that 'bzr dh-make' only creates orig.tar.gz and copies template debian/ files.... but it seems ot
<AmberJ_> *but it seems that it (i.e. bzr dh-make) is doing something else as well... Maybe doing with build environment as you suggest)
 * AmberJ_ is reading dh_make source
<james_w> AmberJ_, might it be that MOSES_BZR_REVNO has no value when it breaks?
<james_w> hmm, doesn't sound right though
<james_w> but yeah, that error doesn't seem to have much to do with the file as you say
<TheLordOfTime> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1056521/  <-- anyone able to tell me what's missing?  i told the system to use all the components
<TheLordOfTime> COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"  <-- defined in ~/.pbuilderrc
<TheLordOfTime> for all users
<jtaylor> TheLordOfTime: try with PBUILDERSATISFYDEPENDSCMD="/usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends-gdebi" in .pbuilderrc
<jtaylor> it gives better error messages in my experience
<TheLordOfTime> bleh, pbuilder base got purged
 * TheLordOfTime is not pleased
<TheLordOfTime> (the base.tgz)
<TheLordOfTime> will that base be rebuilt when i specify distribution 'quantal' instead of precise or when i specify 'natty'?
<jtaylor> yes
<TheLordOfTime> good
<jtaylor> use pbuilder-dist for easy multi distributions
<jtaylor> or set BASETGZ/BASEPATH appropriately
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor:  This package is uninstallable
<TheLordOfTime> Dependency is not satisfiable: debhelper (>= 7.0.50~)
<TheLordOfTime> so...
<TheLordOfTime> not sure what its on about...
<TheLordOfTime> (since this is being caused by the 'juju' source package from quantal)
<TheLordOfTime> and juju's in main, if this is triggered in Quantal, bad things'll happen
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor:  still around?
<jtaylor> TheLordOfTime: debhelper 7 not available in quantal?
<jtaylor> unlikely
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor:  <ubottu> debhelper (source: debhelper): helper programs for debian/rules. In component main, is optional. Version 9.20120419ubuntu2 (quantal), package size 594 kB, installed size 966 kB
<TheLordOfTime> so...
<TheLordOfTime> not sure wth's going on
<jtaylor> just use pbuilder-dist
<TheLordOfTime> and that's with a pbuilder-dist quantal create
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor:  i *did* i was just typing that
<TheLordOfTime> so unless pbuilder's gone wonky and is bugged
<TheLordOfTime> pbuilder-dist *
<jtaylor> can you login and install the dependencies?
<TheLordOfTime> pbuilder-dist quantal login --save-after-login right?
<TheLordOfTime> ah there it is
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor:  i'm going to edit the debian/control
<TheLordOfTime> i think the ~ is throwing it off (its yelling at python, ended with a ~ too)
<TheLordOfTime> I: Installing the build-deps
<TheLordOfTime> This package is uninstallable
<TheLordOfTime> Dependency is not satisfiable: python (>= 2.6.6-3~)
<TheLordOfTime> unless pbuilder-dist is literally broken
<TheLordOfTime> unless you're willing to do me a favor and try to build juju in Quantal yourself
<TheLordOfTime> (its directly synced from Debian, so i wonder if its breaking)
<TheLordOfTime> even installing python myself doesnt fix it
<TheLordOfTime> how much do you want to bet that pbuilder-dist is broken
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor:  ^
<jtaylor> not sure what the problem
<jtaylor> likely something with components
<TheLordOfTime> well that's unlikely
<TheLordOfTime> debhelper's main
<TheLordOfTime> so's python
<arand> pango-graphite needs SRUing somehow in lucid: Bug #893559 which I'll be marking a dupe of Bug #540035 shortly.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 893559 in pango-graphite (Ubuntu) "Installing pango-graphite breaks display manager" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893559
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540035 in pango-graphite (Ubuntu) "pango-graphite causes several applications to crash" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540035
<TheLordOfTime> yep, i think this is a bug in pbuilder
<TheLordOfTime> because i even *installed* python
<arand> This appears to fall into the "upstream microrelease" SRU category. Would it be appropriate here to simply request a sync from debian squeezy for the SRU?
<jbicha> personally, I use sbuild instead of pbuilder http://wiki.debian.org/sbuild
<TheLordOfTime> jbicha:  i dont have it installed
<arand> TheLordOfTime: This is a qq pbuilder and qq juju source?
<TheLordOfTime> arand:  precise pbuilder, quantal juju source
<TheLordOfTime> although i have a tarball now built for quantal
<TheLordOfTime> (for the pbuilder)
<TheLordOfTime> i'm just testing a package build
<TheLordOfTime> not actually *producing* the debs here
 * TheLordOfTime tests any and all debian package builds prior to submitting debdiffs for bugs
<TheLordOfTime> s/debian//
<TheLordOfTime> arand:  and using pbuilder-dist also breaks
<TheLordOfTime> it doesnt correctly identify that the debhelper and the python is valid
<TheLordOfTime> unless quantal's bootstrapthingy is wrong
<TheLordOfTime> oh hang on
<arand> "pbuilder-dist quantal build juju_0.5+bzr542-1.dsc" seems to work for me from Debian
<TheLordOfTime> meh might just be pbuilder
<arand> precise doesn't have the python packages/versions that the quantal juju depends on.
<TheLordOfTime> i'll reinstall everything for it later
<TheLordOfTime> arand:  but it was a quantal pbuilder-dist
<TheLordOfTime> i *confirmed* that
<TheLordOfTime> it should have still built within the chroot
<TheLordOfTime> no?
<TheLordOfTime> i.e. pbuilder-dist quantal build ...
<arand> Is it old and in need of an update?
<arand> (the base tgz that is)
<TheLordOfTime> i just recreated it
<TheLordOfTime> so i doubt it
<arand> Yeah.
 * TheLordOfTime had to recreate it today after an unfortunate nuking of the cache
<arand> Hmm, I'm seing your exact dependency errors on the precise base and not on the quantal one...
<TheLordOfTime> arand:  then i'm going to file a bug against pbuilder at this rate
<TheLordOfTime> pbuilder-dist quantal build did those errors
<TheLordOfTime> it even said * distribution is quantal
 * TheLordOfTime will purge pbuilder stuff and reinstall then test
<TheLordOfTime> if it comes up i'll be filing a bug
<TheLordOfTime> comes up after reinstall*
<arand> Your first log from above is from precise though?
<TheLordOfTime> in pbuilder
<TheLordOfTime> but then i remembered i keep a build-tests ppa on lp
<TheLordOfTime> so i just used that
<arand> uh?
<arand> So you tried it in a precise base.tgz then in a PPA on quantal, then in a quantal base.tgz?
<arand> *PPA quantal pocket
 * TheLordOfTime sighs
<TheLordOfTime> arand:  i uploaded to a plain old PPA on Launchpad
<TheLordOfTime> after i said "screw it" to pbuilder locally
 * TheLordOfTime assumed that would have been understood immediately
<TheLordOfTime> the package is targetted against Quantal, so it tried to build in a quantal chroot within the PPA builders
<TheLordOfTime> so it got past the random crap i was seeing in pbuilder
<TheLordOfTime> and stuff
<TheLordOfTime> i'm on a different issue now
<arand> Well, I FTBFS:ed as well, on a bunch of testcases...
<arand> http://paste.debian.net/176022/ But the depends bit you were seing went ok.
<TheLordOfTime> wait, so it FTBFS in Quantal?
<TheLordOfTime> arand:  ^
<arand> Looks like it, but later on in the build preocess than in your case... weird.
<TheLordOfTime> arand:  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/108472904/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.juju_0.5%2Bbzr542-1.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz  <-- that's what i'm getting when trying to help someone fix a bug (via an LP builder)
<TheLordOfTime> (see -bugs if you're not there already)
<TheLordOfTime> but if you're saying the original package isnt building from that source, then that's a bigger problem=
<TheLordOfTime> whoops
<arand> TheLordOfTime: From what I can tell that build log tells the exact same story as the one from pbuilder-precise-base... Just that it's using a different builder than pbuilder. But I've a hard time imagining that the QQ pocket in a PPA would confuse the series. I have no clue what's up there...
<arand> I would say it's indicating that it's not a pbuilder bug though.
<AmberJ_> ok thanks james_w ... I won't settle until I find the source of this bug.
<arand> TheLordOfTime: I'm wondering if it's the latest python that's in flux, and being only half-published on some servers or so, hence everything that's depending on python suffers...
<arand> Hmm, no I misread the publishing dates there, seems pretty unlikely to be python..
<TheLordOfTime> agreed
<TheLordOfTime> i'm thinking there's an error in the juju code
<TheLordOfTime> especially if its FTBFS without any patches
<TheLordOfTime> s/any/any additional/
<arand> TheLordOfTime: Which package server were you using for your pbuilder by the way?
<TheLordOfTime> iridium
<arand> Oh, I meant http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu or?
<TheLordOfTime> oh, um...
 * TheLordOfTime checks
<TheLordOfTime> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu  <--
<TheLordOfTime> (from the sources.list in the base tarball)
<TheLordOfTime> i could try it off of the us archive though
<TheLordOfTime> (the US mirrors)
<arand> Well, we were using the same mirror, so that can't be the dependency mismatch either o_o
<TheLordOfTime> but if the main archives have a major regression issue, then the mirrors wont be much better
<TheLordOfTime> indeed
<TheLordOfTime> hence why i'm going to uninstall and reinstall pbuilder
<AmberJ_> Where is dh_make repo? I can see dh_make source on packages.debian.org but isn't there's supposed to be a version controlled repo as well?
<TheLordOfTime> hmm
<TheLordOfTime> arand:  is dh-make needed?
 * TheLordOfTime isnt seeing dh-make installed on his system
<arand> It's only for making packaging starter templates
<TheLordOfTime> just making sure
<TheLordOfTime> (although i do need that)
<arand> It's time-saving, though doesn't help you in doing the actual work :)
<TheLordOfTime> well...
<TheLordOfTime> it prevents me from having to bzr branch my debian templates
<TheLordOfTime> because i'll just recreate em
 * TheLordOfTime keeps debian/ templates on a junk branch
<AmberJ_> Found it http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/collab-maint/deb-maint/dh-make/ (dh-make svn repo on alioth)
<arand> AmberJ_: It's http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/dh-make.git;a=summary nowadays actually.
<TheLordOfTime> ^ that
<arand> TheLordOfTime: alo21's patch does cause a separate (earlier) FTBFS issue, it seems.
<TheLordOfTime> ah, so then his patch is invalid
<arand> Now we've got three of em' :D
<TheLordOfTime> (good thing he didnt upload, i'd have been strict)
<AmberJ_> Thanks arand!
<TheLordOfTime> arand:  if you can narrow down the FTBFS issue, that'd be awesome.
<arand> http://paste.debian.net/176033/ is the one with alo21's patch
<arand> I'm doubting I'll have much luck with it, but I'll gather as much as possible for a bug report though.
<AmberJ_> james_w, I think I now get what you meant by "[00:55] <james_w> AmberJ_, might it be that MOSES_BZR_REVNO has no value when it breaks?"
<AmberJ_> In fact, I strongly suspect that MOSES_BZR_REVNO getting no value is the culprit :)
<AmberJ_> I'm doing a build now to see if we are right..
<arand> Though, now it's turning night here.
<AmberJ_> It does NOT matters if I run debuild from package/debian or from package/ .... right?
<TheLordOfTime> arand:  at the least, on the bug report, i'd recommend pointing out it FTBFS as well (although note he didnt upload his patch yet)
<arand> AmberJ_: Should not.
<AmberJ_> ok
<arand> TheLordOfTime: Yeah, when I said Bug I meant a new one for the current-version ftbfs
<TheLordOfTime> file it and subscribe me?
<TheLordOfTime> (trekcaptainusa-tw is my LPID)
<Yankees52> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<Yankees52> ban me =)
<Yankees52> !staff
<ubottu> hey Christel, Dave2, Gary, KB1JWQ, Levia, Martinp23, SportsChick, VorTechS, jayne, jenda, marienz, nalioth, niko, nhandler, rob, dax, stew, or tomaw, I could use a bit of your time :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-24
<AmberJ_> james_w, You were correct yesterday... it was MOSES_BZR_REVNO not getting any value that was causing me build error. Thanks!
<badfox> i have a package and i wanna upload it into my launchpad
<badfox> how can i do that
<AmberJ_> badfox, do you mean that you want to upload the source package to PPA so that it can be built on PPA?
<badfox> i have built a package new version and i wanna upload it to its launchpad page
<badfox> or making a link to its lp page from my lp page after uploading
<AmberJ_> Err sorry... but I don't get what you mean.
<badfox> AmberJ,  sorry! let me arrange
<badfox> AmberJ,   https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/accountsservice/ now its version of Ubuntu is accountsservice 0.6.15-2ubuntu9 but i have its latest version accountsservice_0.6.21-1_i386.deb with me and how can i upload it .
<AmberJ_> badfox, http://askubuntu.com/a/87719
<AmberJ_> badfox, As https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading#The_easy_way:_FTP_in_Ubuntu_9.10_and_newer says: "Note that Launchpad builds the packages onsite, and does not accept deb files. "
<badfox> AmberJ,  :)
<badfox> yeah point
<AmberJ_> The askubuntu link above has an alternative to host debs that you created locally.
<badfox> yeah  AmberJ  thank you
<badfox> AmberJ,  sorry my time over
<badfox> i gotta go
<badfox> thanks for the support
<james_w> AmberJ_, glad you fixed it
<AmberJ_> :)
<umang> Hi, is it prefered to install a .desktop file in /etc/xdg/autostart or is it better for the application to create an symlink from ~/.config/autostart on runtime?
<umang> This is to have the program start up when the desktop loads.
<tumbleweed> not being a desktop person, I'd say ~/.config/autostart. Because the user might not want it to auto-start, so it's nice if they don't have to be root to stop it
<Laney> users can create their own corresponding file to override the system's one
<umang> tumbleweed, Thanks! It does look to me as though users can easily override that through the startup apps
<Laney> it depends on whether you want it to autostart for users without them having to run it once so the app can create the file
<umang> *through the startup application preferences dialog
<umang> Laney, Hmm. So, how I decide that?
<umang> Laney, I'm making a sticky notes AppIndicator.
<Laney> look at what similar applications do?
<umang> Laney, they seem to be divided between the two. I'll just go with /etc/xdg/autostart since it can be easily coded through dh_links.
<umang> Laney, tumbleweed: Thank you both for your help!
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-17
<dholbach> good morning
<xnox> Laney: it should. Will poke it for both db's
<Laney> xnox: ta, see emails
<Laney> I'll turn down his request to become a comaintainer though :P
<xnox> Laney: there are emails =) interesting... i'm still going through irc highlights.
<Laney> xnox: yes, you too could join the Debian Berkeley DB Group for the low low cost of $9.95 + tax + shipping!
<xnox> Laney: I love when shipping is done "electronic ticket delivery via email" yet they still charge me shipping ! I mean, srsly?
<Laney> maybe he mails you a signed certificate
<geser> or they mail you a print-out of the email
<xnox> Laney: are you a DD yet?
<Laney> https://nm.debian.org/public/person/laney
<xnox> geser: yeah, i had a: printscript, printed out, scanned in, saved as PDF emailed to me before after asking "can you send this in PDF to me"
<xnox> Laney: you are an AM 8-) wow. Also you were a DD way before me, I wonder how I didn't recall that detail.
<Laney> you don't hang around haskell, mono or gnome enough :-)
<Laney> not that I'm /massively/ active in any of those
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-18
<Logan_> jamespage: Are you around?
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<fr33r1d3> dholbach: I'm thinking about trying to become a MOTU, Where is the most up to date information about how to start..
<dholbach> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/
<dholbach> oops
<dholbach> why is the link broken
<dholbach> give me a sec
<fr33r1d3> ok
<dholbach> fr33r1d3, in the meantime you could just "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-packaging-guide-team/ppa; sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install ubuntu-packaging-guide"
<fr33r1d3> sure
<dholbach> bdrung, maybe we should get an updated version of the packaging guide into the archive again?
<bdrung> dholbach: okay. asomething took over the maintainer role. poke him. if he is not available, i will do the upload.
<mitya57> please wait for one more merge proposal from me before releasing :)
<dholbach> thanks bdrung and mitya57
<fr33r1d3> I have just tried to fix my first bug. Is there any way to let someone just check it to see if its raight done?
<geser> do you have the bug number?
<fr33r1d3> yes. its 1179969
<mitya57> fr33r1d3: did you forward this fix upstream?
<fr33r1d3> no
<mitya57> please do that, as I don't think we want to carry a delta (against debian) because of such a minor fix
<fr33r1d3> ok, i do that with a debcommit?
<geser> with "submittodebian"
<fr33r1d3> yes , saw that now. =)
<fr33r1d3> thanx
<mitya57> no, it's upstream file, so forward this upstream instead of debian
<Laney> someone write pull-lp-binaries please â¥
<Laney> I'll bake you cookies
<dholbach> fr33r1d3, it's fixed now - the link I gave you earlier should work now
<fr33r1d3> ok, thanx
<fr33r1d3> dholbach: Thats the page you wanted help with translation, if I remember right?
<dholbach> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/ :)
<fr33r1d3> I have started on it for some time ago.. Maybe I should make "my team" work a bit harder on it now when I'm TL for swedish loco. =)
<dholbach> mitya57, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/+bug/1188112 might be a blocker
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1188112 in Ubuntu Packaging Guide "FTBFS on saucy" [Undecided,New]
<mitya57> dholbach: will look in 20 minutes
<dholbach> thanks - merged your other branch - good work
<jtaylor> can someone new python3-pyparsing to then sync it over the mess that is the ubuntu pyparsing?
<kermit666> hi! I'm trying to build the package from this source code: https://code.launchpad.net/~cooperjona/lightread/master
<kermit666> I issue "bzr bd -- -S", but it fails - it looks for the debian folder in the wrong place: "bzr: ERROR: Could not find changelog at /home/kermit/projekti/bzr/drugi/lightread/trunk/debian/changelog in tree.
<kermit666> "
<kermit666> it is located under trunk/Ubuntu/debian/changelog in the mentioned source repo
<kermit666> anyone know what to do when debian/ is not in bzr repo root, but in Ubuntu/debian instead? I tried "bzr bd --build-dir=Ubuntu/ -- -S", but it doesn't work
<maxb> I think I'd be inclined to resort to a symlin
<maxb> * symlink
<kermit666> ok, solved it using dpkg-buildpackage
<kermit666> it supports cd-ing to a different path inside the source repo. I reported this as a bzr-builddeb bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr-builddeb/+bug/1192291
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192291 in bzr-builddeb (Ubuntu) "Unable to specify a different debian/ location to "bzr builddeb"" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-19
<dholbach> good morning
<mitya57> dholbach: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-packaging-guide-team/+archive/ppa/+build/4727530 <- \o/
<dholbach> mitya57, great work!
<mitya57> I've also subscribed to the bug reports, so will now respond more quickly
<alex-foo> ahoy. can anyone tell me  - when GCC version 4.7.0 is updated to 4.7.1, do we recompile every package in the universe!?
<maxb> alex-foo: No, it's not uncommon for packages to go un-recompiled from one release to another.
<maxb> There are however rebuild *tests* done from time to time, but the build results don't go into the primary archive
<alex-foo> maxb, so if the whole archive was rebuilt from source it would differ? or do packages explicitly build-depend on a given compiler?
<maxb> I don't think you can rely on compilation being bytewise identical even if you keep the exact same compiler
<alex-foo> because of other dependencies changing?
<geser> alex-foo: for example, it happens, that a package isn't rebuild for several releases as there was no package update in the meantime
<geser> alex-foo: you can see the results of the latest rebuild test at http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20130614-saucy.html
<geser> (many packages to investigate and fix :( )
<alex-foo> geser: interesting, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-20
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<gotwig> I fail the lintian error: E: wingpanel-slim: helper-templates-in-copyright , can someone help?
<gotwig> which file do I have to adjust
<gotwig> copyright, in the debian directory?
<jtaylor> yes
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-21
<Rhonda> Is it possible to enable someone else to upload to a specific PPA?
<Rhonda> (without adding a foreign pgp key to my launchpad and thus enabling it for all :))
<RAOF> Not to my knowledge
<StevenK> Only if the PPA is owned by a team
<Rhonda> StevenK: Hmm, actually, that would make sense.  Thanks for the hint! :)
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-16
<dholbach> good morning
<Danatela> hi guys!
<Danatela> Does anybody know how often old releases are moved to old-releases?
<soren> Danatela: They get moved there once they reach End-Of-Life.
<soren> Danatela: Not necessarily on the exact date, but close to it, I think.
<Danatela> soren: I thought so, but 13.04 is still on the main server, as well as 12.10
<rbasak> Danatela: those are a little delayed because of the transition to shorter support periods
<rbasak> As well as hardware enablement EOLing
<Danatela> what is hardware enablement EOLing?
<Danatela> And are there any sources in which the delay is announced?
<Danatela> I mean, official sources
<rbasak> There are official sources for when releases are EOLed
<rbasak> I don't think there's any consideration made currently for any delay in "unsupporting" a release.
<rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HweStackEolNotifications is being prepared at the moment. I don't know if there are specific implications for delaying a move to old-releases, but there's no harm in waiting until this stuff is all done first.
<dogeydogey> can anyone help me with a bug I'm working on?
<dogeydogey> anyone?
<iulian> dogeydogey: I think it would be better if you just say what it is you're having difficulties with. People aren't always on IRC so you have better chances to have your question(s) answered this way.
<dogeydogey> I'm trying to solve this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/914028 but I can't find the text anywhere even though I've grepped for it
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 914028 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Poor wording in alert when trying to install from unauthenticated sources" [Low,Confirmed]
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-17
<dholbach> good morning
<ddsss> how does one creates source package without automake or cmake?
<dogeydogey> I'm trying to solve this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/914028 but I can't find the text anywhere even though I've grepped for it -- can someone help me out?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 914028 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Poor wording in alert when trying to install from unauthenticated sources" [Low,Confirmed]
<ddsss> so I have deb-src package - how exactly do I build get .deb binary package from it? or what do I do with it?
<jtaylor> run debuild -us -uc in the extracted source
<ddsss> jtaylor, gotcha. thanks
<dogeydogey> jtaylor I'm trying to solve this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/914028 but I can't find the text anywhere even though I've grepped for it -- can someone help me out?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 914028 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Poor wording in alert when trying to install from unauthenticated sources" [Low,Confirmed]
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-18
<dholbach> good morning
<sil2100> Morning o/
<Unit193> Howdy.
 * Transfusion does debootstap trusty /trusty and waits anxiously
<Transfusion> > base system installed successfully
 * Transfusion continues with the rest of the packaging guide
<dogeydogey> I'm trying to solve this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/914028 but I can't find the text anywhere even though I've grepped for it -- can someone help me out?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 914028 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Poor wording in alert when trying to install from unauthenticated sources" [Low,Confirmed]
<rbasak> dogeydogey: if a grep doesn't reveal it, try looking at likely dependencies. libpkg-apt, or python-apt, or apt itself maybe?
<rbasak> PackageKit?
<rbasak> I don't know much about how the software center interacts with other pieces here - this is just where I'd look.
<ddsss>  so - what's the sequence in which targets are executed in debian/rules file?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-19
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<Unit193> quadrispro: You seem a bit interesetd in darkice, would you likely also be interested in "sponsoring" http://paste.openstack.org/show/soNXGBhFpxqsCDbRXLO3/ this update to 1.2, likely fixing the jack issue (can't test) and adding opus support?
<quadrispro> Unit193, really do I?
<quadrispro> Unit193, just kidding, I'll have a look
<Unit193> Hah, nice.  No big deal, just trying to get some of my local delta upstream.  Emailed the Debian maintainer beginning of May, no news.
<quadrispro> Unit193, what about merging the delta back to Debian?
<quadrispro> at least the non-Ubuntu-specific changes
<quadrispro> Unit193, and if the maintainer didn't reply we may still manage an NMU
 * quadrispro running out of the office for lunch break - brb
<Unit193> quadrispro: Well this is a merge of sorts, so I didn't update standards or all that since Ubuntu likes to keep it minimal, same with NMUs.  And on that note, can you add features/build-deps in an NMU?
<Unit193> But, I'm all for Debian having this (seems everything is in main.)
<mark06> how to add my sofrware to universe instead of ppa?
<Unit193> mark06: Perhaps look at this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages  Might try to get it in Debian first if you can.
<quadrispro> Unit193, I'm back, let me have a look at the package and at your diff
<quadrispro> Unit193, looks that the latest 1.2 release would bring a fix for RC bug#723068
<mark06> Unit193: ah true, ok
<quadrispro> Unit193, and it's now feasible to enable the mp3 feature as lame entered the Debian archive some time ago
<Unit193> That's what I thought, but never used jack and I know it's not simple.  dget https://sigma.unit193.net/source/darkice_1.2-0ubuntu1.dsc  work for you?  Sure, just don't remember the rules of what can and can't be done in an NMU.
<Unit193> The diff is applies to 1.0-1ubuntu1 packaging and upstream source.  I have that patch added to fix compile on 32bit multiarch, and have added a patch upstream too.
<quadrispro> Unit193, I've just started to work on the 1.2 release, I'll apply your patch as well
<Unit193> quadrispro: Cool, great, thanks!  FWIW I'm in pkg-multimedia as well.
<quadrispro> Unit193, could you please send me the fix_libs_multiarch_i386.patch separately? -> alessio@debian.org
<Unit193> Ah crap, email.  Sure, want anything with it?
<quadrispro> Unit193, paste it somewhere
<Unit193> quadrispro: Should be good.
<quadrispro> Unit193, I've been wondering if it was the case to switch the package to dh-autoreconf
<quadrispro> Unit193, that *should* properly regenerate the configure file
<quadrispro> Unit193, and I haven't used 'should' accidentally, I haven't yet tested it
<Unit193> quadrispro: 1. Doesn't have autogen.sh.  2. Would still have the same problem wouldn't it?  That is, https://code.google.com/p/darkice/issues/detail?id=107 (I, err, didn't know I was creating an "issue" with "edit this code", thought it was more of a pull req.)
<Unit193> But yeah, it'd be a smaller patch.
<quadrispro> Unit193, building right now -> http://debomatic-amd64.debian.net/distribution#unstable/darkice/1.2-0.1/buildlog
<quadrispro> ouch, my fault
<quadrispro> re-building
<Unit193> Leftover linkage.
<quadrispro> Unit193, lintian report
<quadrispro> -> http://debomatic-amd64.debian.net/distribution#unstable/darkice/1.2-0.1/lintian
<quadrispro> Unit193, do you have a debian box to do some testing?
<Unit193> quadrispro: If a VM counts, otherwise they're headless.
<quadrispro> Unit193, go for it, I'll be testing on a machine somewhere around here, just need the time to allocate one
<Unit193> Meh, VM is 32.  Though point of interest, build never failed on 64bit since acinclude had the 64bit multiarch dir.
<quadrispro> Unit193, http://debomatic-i386.debian.net/distribution#unstable/darkice/1.2-0.1/buildlog
<quadrispro> let's see what happens
<Unit193> Heh, was just going to rebuild locally.  Got a typo in changelog, without-lame.
<Unit193> Yeah, that one failed.
<quadrispro> Unit193, yep, you're right, so what we need is a patch for configure.in
<quadrispro> alright, I think I've found it
<quadrispro> and it's neither in configure.in nor in configure
<Unit193> Oh?  Worked in a chroot, where is it?
<quadrispro> Unit193, one sec, brb
<Unit193> Sure.
<quadrispro> acinclude.m4
<quadrispro> I'm trying to work around it
<Unit193> Right, that's the one I linked.
<Unit193> Anywho, thanks for taking a look!
<quadrispro> Unit193, I'm still on it
<quadrispro> Unit193, adding the i386 lib path is not robust enough, it would keep failing on other architectures
<mark06> how to configure a custom subdir as root for a deb package?
<quadrispro> Unit193, http://debomatic-i386.debian.net/distribution#unstable/darkice/1.2-0.1/buildlog
<quadrispro> Unit193, done, thanks!
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-20
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-21
<bluesabre> 2
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-15
<Fantu> hi, someone can update cinnamon to 2.6.7-3 from debian testing or sid please? (and add 2 small changes ubuntu specific from 2.2.16-5u1) cinnamon 2.2.16-5u1 with other component already at 2.6 have many problems that make it unusable
<dholbach> good morning
<Mirv> Unit193: should assaultcube be in the sponsoring queue or did it go in already?
<Unit193> It's, err, not no.  It's a harder one to do because Debian hasn't pushed it.
<Unit193> Just a dsc file so far.
<Unit193> Mirv: That is to say, dget https://unit193.net/source/assaultcube_1.2.0.2+dfsg1-0ubuntu1.dsc - dget https://unit193.net/source/assaultcube-data_1.2.0.2+repack1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Mirv> Unit193: both sponsored
<Mirv> Unit193: thanks!
<Mirv> Unit193: it seems it unfortunately won't migrate to release pocket though since ppc64el failed to build (update config.guess for next upload?) https://launchpadlibrarian.net/209119518/buildlog_ubuntu-wily-ppc64el.assaultcube_1.2.0.2%2Bdfsg1-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz - other archs were fine
<Unit193> Mirv: Woho!  Great, thanks.  And yeah, looks like it.
<Unit193> Mirv: So had time to look at it.  Problem is, ./configure is being run during the clean phase, before autotools can do its thing.  https://sigma.unit193.net/source/assaultcube_1.2.0.2+dfsg1-0ubuntu2.debdiff would fix that, but not sure how polite that || true is.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-16
<Mirv> Unit193: I get an empty page there :)
<Unit193> Mirv: Weird, re-upped.  Seemed nicer to edit the patch that's already changing that section, but not sure what you think.
<Mirv> Unit193: ok, now it works. makes sense, and ok enough of a hack IMHO if it just works. I'll look at using it soon(ish).
<Unit193> Mirv: Great!  Glad you're happy (enough) with it!  And sure, that's good enough for me! :)
<dholbach> good morning
<Unit193> barry: Hi.  I think you told me to ping you Monday, but I don't remember which Monday you indicated. :3
<barry> Unit193: next monday ;)
<barry> Unit193: of course, i might say the same thing next monday :)
<Unit193> Hah, so I should just setup cron.pl in Irssi then? ;)
<Unit193> Anywho, well OK, I just hope it'll make it in for wily. :D
<barry> Unit193: we'll try.  things keep getting higher prioritied on me.  but i haven't closed the tab yet, so that's a sign... of something
<Unit193> Hah, well sure.  This is kind of a splinter thing and all. (I have it in a local repo, so no problem for me.  Just hate the delta. :P )
<Unit193> Thanks.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-17
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-18
<Fantu> hi, someone can do cinnamon 2.6 merge please? actually wily using cinnamon with components at version 2.6 but cinnamon still 2.2 causes some important problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cinnamon/+bug/1465229
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1465229 in cinnamon (Ubuntu) "Please merge cinnamon 2.6 from debian sid or testing to solves important problem" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-19
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2016-06-20
<inaddy> quick question, is there a "motu sponsors" team i should subscribe to get motu sponsorship ?
<tinoco> example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ktp-text-ui/+bug/1556653
<ubottu> Error: launchpad bug 1556653 not found
#ubuntu-motu 2016-06-23
<Unit193> micahg: 1592205 in case you didn't see. :P
<Unit193> Logan: I had updated 1593428 with more output, anything else needed?
#ubuntu-motu 2016-06-24
<Logan> Unit193: I'm gonna do a diffoscope between libtorrent-rasterbar (1.0.7-1build2) and a new no-change rebuild to try to pin down what's changing
<Logan> if that's truly what fixes the issue
<Unit193> Rebuilt the 15th and it's still not popping up..
<Logan> Unit193: better yet, can you just pop me over DEBs so I can investigate? I didn't realize this is a 26-minute build :|
<Logan> (is it in one of your PPAs?)
<Unit193> It isn't, I only built 32bit.
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/source/
<Logan> why are you building i386 packages? :(
<Unit193> Likely because the system I built for is i386, but I could be wrong.
<Logan> Unit193: I uploaded because whatever
<Unit193> Hah, so much for finding what went wrong.  Thanks a lot for the fixes. \o/
<Unit193> Hmm, seems sponsoring/ is down.
<Unit193> (No, just took waaay too long.)
#ubuntu-motu 2017-06-19
<mapreri> Unit193: the archive build is using 0.0~git20161111.0.293ce0c+dfsg1-4 of golang-github-jacobsa-crypto-dev from -proposed, yours is using -3 from release
<mapreri> please try again your PPA build after enabling proposed in the options
<mapreri> _then_ come back if you still can't reproduce
#ubuntu-motu 2017-06-22
<tumbleweed> eah
#ubuntu-motu 2017-06-23
<flexiondotorg> Any MOTUs here who could take a look at LP: #1699333 and LP: #1699334 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1699333 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] vala-panel" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1699333
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1699334 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] vala-panel-appmenu" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1699334
<flexiondotorg> I like those uploading ASAP so I can include them in Ubuntu MATE for 17.10 Alpha 1.
<flexiondotorg> Once uploaded I'll contact the DMB to have them added to the Ubuntu MATE package set so I can maintain them long term.
<flexiondotorg> Ubuntu Budgie are also want those packages too.
<mapreri> flexiondotorg: I sent a review for vala-panel.  Point 9 is particularly worrisome for me.
<mapreri> ah, don't care about the versioning, I can just "reset" it to '-0ubuntu1' when uploading to the main archive
<Unit193> I had a tool check it, said: https://paste.unit193.net/?3981950e7ab3e054#+I6H3lgYdTqqnoJN1KvngtxbaHe5BOhwqQ8M108ShIE=
<mapreri> Unit193: why do you have your own paste service u.U?
<Unit193> Uhhh...All the ads? :3
<mapreri> flexiondotorg: also take pretty much all of those points and apply them to vala-panel-appmenu; I have some more, but I think there is not much point in repeating it all over.
<mapreri> s/it all/them all/
<mapreri> (and I can't build it without injecting vala-panel, too lazy for it now, so no lintian)
<Unit193> (Also, there's no ads on the page at all.)
<Unit193> mapreri: https://sigma.unit193.net/source/vala-panel/vala-panel-appmenu_0.5.2-0ubuntu1_i386.lintian
<Unit193> mapreri: Maintainer is the upstream author.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-06-24
<Unit193> mapreri: ...Also if you get "bored" and want to review something, let me know. :)
<mapreri> Unit193: I am generically bored with life, but that doesn't mean I don't know what to do to fill my free time :)
<mapreri> Unit193: I don't have enough cycles to follow the flow of sponsorships (either ubuntu's or debian's), but I'm happy if somebody poke me to specifically review something.  That said, I'm quite happier when that something targets debianâ¦
<Unit193> Heh, did notice the last part. :)  And yeah figured, but can wish right? :P
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-19
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Hey, so, what time did you say you were usually available? If you're serious about becoming a MOTU I think we should make a meeting happen.
<Unit193> In about 4 weeks there's one at 3pm local time, that should (usually) work.
<tsimonq2> It would be super cool if you could put your name on the agenda with a note that it's applicable for that time/
<tsimonq2> s/\/./
<tsimonq2> (er, s/\//./
<tsimonq2> )
<Flannel> s#/#.#
 * tsimonq2 scratches head
<Flannel> That way you don't need to escape the /
<tsimonq2> ah
<Unit193> I usually fall back to using '@', or randomly preferring that.
<Unit193> Is there a page linking to criteria allowed for breaking sync with Debian?
<Unit193> (Basically, I want to do something in a package and I'm wondering if it's considered justified and allowed to jump ahead of Debian.)
<rbasak> I don't know that we have specific documentation on it
<rbasak> It's pretty subjective, and heavily weighted on whoever will be looking after that package (future merges, etc).
<rbasak> What do you have in mind?
<Unit193> I wouldn't expect future merges, I'd expect to re-sync with Debian eventually.  oidentd update, it'd look a lot like http://paste.openstack.org/show/II8N3LG8XuVDcJ6IC5Os
<Unit193> "Switching" upstreams may seem a bit questionable, but old homepage links to the continued project.  Also filed Debian #898378.
<ubottu> Debian bug 898378 in oidentd "oidentd: Please switch to the new upstream and update to the latest version" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/898378
<rbasak> Unit193: the risk in doing that is that if Debian does something different then you end up on the hook forever*
<Unit193> rbasak: I do understand, though I don't see what else they would do right now.
<rbasak> old homepage links to the continued project> that makes me happier
<Unit193> rbasak: Since it's moving ahead of Debian, specifically to a new home, I'd understand entirely if it's rejected.  Clearly, I'm interested in getting this in Debian either way, but so far no response from the maintainer.
<rbasak> Part of Ubuntu's model is exactly to be able to address this sooner than Debian's model of waiting a very long time for a single maintainer before an NMU
<rbasak> So yeah, you can do it in Ubuntu. It's a trade-off though.
<rbasak> What's your interest in having this updated?
<Unit193> It's something I use, moving to a much more maintained model would be a great move, and there were a couple features/bugfixes in a recent version that fix a problem I was having.
<rbasak> What kind of commitment do you think you could make to looking after it in Ubuntu until (and taking that risk) we can sync with Debian again?
<rbasak> To be clear, it's not my decision :)
<rbasak> I think that as long as you're willing to look after it then bumping it in Ubuntu seems reasonable, especially as there is no controversy with upstream referring the replacemnet upstream.
<rbasak> Why do you use an ident daemon anyway? :)
<Unit193> Well, it's either maintain it so others can use it or maintain it in my own PPA.  The only "problem" I'd forsee is either getting hit by a car, or moving to Debian myself (and even then, I'd like to think I'd finish out my committment.)  I'm also in contact with upstream, if that helps.  And, well...Only for IRC.  It looks cleaner without the tilde, and one of my servers has a ZNC with someone else
<Unit193> on it, and it's highly recommended to have ident so that if needed, a specific user can be banned (either network wide or from a channel.  Though I don't expect I'd need that.)
<Unit193> rbasak: If it helps, I have interests in being a MOTU member, already am part of the Xubuntu packageset.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-20
<rbasak> Unit193: ah, you'd need sponsorship for it? Then you'll need to convince your sponsor too :)
<Unit193> rbasak: Well, if I could convince you or tsimonq2, or even LocutusOfBorg, that wouldn't be too hard!
<tsimonq2> I think you should go for MOTU already. I've sponsored enough of your stuff. :P
<tsimonq2> In my opinion, you know what you're doing, and you know to ask if you don't understand.
<Unit193> Most of those were more sensible.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Is your diff ready enough for me to review + upload?
<tsimonq2> (Upload if it looks good, that is.)
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Technically you'd have to grab the source/sig, it won't apply directly atop Ubuntu's version.  But that should be the Ubuntuized version of my package and done, indeed.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Have you uploaded this to a PPA somewhere? Can I take a peek at that?
<Unit193> ppa:unit193/test has the non-Ubuntuized version, sure.
<tsimonq2> Is that the version you would like uploaded?
<Unit193> Not the version in the PPA, but the changelog and `update-maintainer` are the only differences.
<tsimonq2> OK.
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/source/oidentd_2.3.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<tsimonq2> Reviewing.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Have you tested this? How extensively?
<Unit193> Dates in the changelog are right, that's when I uploaded to my repo and it got updated/installed on 5 hosts, mix of amd64 and i386, from Xenial to Bionic and even testing.
<tsimonq2> Good enough for me.
<Unit193> I don't have exotic config though.
<tsimonq2> OK.
<tsimonq2> Well, your diff looks sane.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oidentd/2.3.1-0ubuntu1
<tsimonq2> Have fun.
<Unit193> Thanks!
<tsimonq2> No problem.
<tsimonq2> *MOTU nag*
<Unit193> 4 weeks, earliest.
<tsimonq2> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<Unit193> tsimonq2.
<tsimonq2> Hi Unit193.
<Unit193> Linked.
<tsimonq2> Huh?
<tsimonq2> Oh.
<Unit193> Not linking in channel because this is logged, but it's related to the last discussion.  Also IIRC you'd mentioned it being gone.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-21
<tsimonq2> sil2100 did.
<Unit193> Ah, he's not in here either.
<tsimonq2> He needs to get a bouncer. :P
<Unit193> I don't have one.
<Unit193> Anyway, as that page shows, I don't get *that* many sponsorships.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-23
<fnatter> hello ubuntu-motu, I have a pending bionic SRU which is porting a simple patch from Debian unstable: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libjsyntaxpane-java/+bug/1770809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1770809 in libjsyntaxpane-java (Ubuntu Bionic) "[bionic SRU] Port libjsyntaxpane-java 0.9.6~r156-7 java9 crash to bionic" [Undecided,New]
<fnatter> last time I was told on #ubuntu-devel that I shall add DEP3 info to the other (trivial) patch, too
<fnatter>  
<fnatter>           https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libjsyntaxpane-java/+bug/1770809
<fnatter>                                                           
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1770809 in libjsyntaxpane-java (Ubuntu Bionic) "[bionic SRU] Port libjsyntaxpane-java 0.9.6~r156-7 java9 crash to bionic" [Undecided,New]
<fnatter> Now I did this and updated the ticked (#1770809)
<fnatter> would someone please consider sponsoring this, or shall I ask on #ubuntu-devel?
<tsimonq2> fnatter`: I can sometime today (US Central)
<fnatter`> tsimonq2: many thanks. Please tell me if you need something :-)
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Please sync oidentd.
<Unit193> I'm also interested in getting somewhat involved with backports, I have things I upload to Debian and might be handy to have them in Ubuntu backports rather than just backporting to my own PPA.  Along those lines, I'd also +1 LP 1778262, as I have it backported to my PPA myself...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1778262 in Bionic Backports "Please backport Telegram Desktop 1.3.7 (universe) from cosmic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778262
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-24
<tsimonq2> Unit193: (You probably know this but) I don't have upload access there.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Synced oidentd.
<tsimonq2> rbasak: Just an FYI, for the record, that oidentd is now being synced for Unit193.
<Unit193> tsimonq2: I know, seems the people that do are doing their own thing and ignoring everyone else. :/
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Let me do something about that. Give me an hour or two...
<zcot> I have a patch for a launchpad project. It's not in ubuntu repo but provided as a ppa. The upstream is the github page which I have submitted a pull request for, and eventually the maintainer said he doesn't want to deal with it anymore why don't you fork off. So, I decided to apply the patch against the launchpad package instead.. -maybe someone can get it into play? Or, no? not how the ppa system works? What should I do? -minimally, I could just throw a
<zcot> code diff on the bug report page for other users?
<rbasak> Sure you can comment on the bug to share with others. You can also create your own PPA and put a patched package in there.
<zcot> rbasak: so, how would that work? i just go on a tangent with another ppa? is there a way to just link the 2 parts together?
<zcot> rbasak: can you make anything more of this? I'm only aware of ppa availability, but here's the launchpad page, i see there's some jessie packaging? https://launchpad.net/conky-manager
<rbasak> zcot: you create your own PPA and advertise it. I'm not aware of any way to link them together.
<zcot> rbasak: ok. I guess this was never put into any ubuntu repository so no way anybody else could control the package. alright, that's what I'll do then. thank you.
#ubuntu-motu 2019-06-18
<AnAnt> Hello, my PPA refuses my upload saying that my signing key has expired, although I have updated the expiry date and uploaded it to SKS servers, what should I do ?
