#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-26
<troy_s> ScottL: progress?
<scott-work> ooh, new test builds posted, but only some of them
<scott-work> that would suggest that they rebuilt something, i wonder what happened?
<abogani> scott-work: Wow! You have done an excellent work with wiki page for kernels! It looks like a professional page! ;-)
<scott-work> i'm glad you like it, part of the reason that i waited till know is because i wanted to devote some time to organizing and presenting the information in a clear, concise, and complete form and i simply had too many distractions up until this point
<scott-work> s/know/now
<scott-work> abogani: if there are any changes you wish for me to make or you have other pages you want create/updated i am happy to offer my services again :)
<abogani> scott-work: Thanks. Your help is really appreciated! :-)
<abogani> scott-work: I changed some text into that wiki page. Should I also change "Kernel confusion" section?
<abogani> scott-work: Could you put a look on my English, please? 
<scott-work> abogani:  i included the kernel confusion section because i don't think people really understand the purposes of the different kernels
<abogani> scott-work: I could try to make thinks more understable if you want.
<scott-work> and i will certainly read back over it again, but i've found your English more than acceptable
<scott-work> abogani: certainly, if you can make that section more understandable that would be awesome
<abogani> scott-work: "at every cost" is a comprehensible sentence for you?
<scott-work> abosuletly
<scott-work> "to the exclusion of all else" is how i would interpret that statement (not suggesting you use this fragment)
<abogani> scott-work: Could you review it now, please?
<abogani> scott-work: Correct my horrible English also, please.
 * abogani is wondering if someone of the Team will attendee UDS-m....
<scott-work> ach, it's not horrible, really.  and i'm giving it a cursory glance now, but during lunch i'll read it with emphatic attention
<scott-work> oh, and abogani, where did you want people to make supportive statements for your kernel upload application?
<abogani> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessioIgorBogani/linux-rtPPUApplication
<abogani> scott-work: Please le me know if wiki page is now enough understandable.
<abogani> scott-work: Thanks for your work and for you patience with me :-)
<scott-work> you do not have any comments or sponsors :(    you have maintained the kernel for the Ubuntu Studio team for several years, no?   i will add a comment today, but surely someone else from the team could also add comments or sponsor
<abogani> scott-work: three years and 7 Ubuntu release
<abogani> releases
 * abogani feel himself very old... :-(
<troy_s> Greets scott-work
<scott-work> hi troy_s 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-27
<ScottL> is anyone going to be able to test the latest ISOs?
<ScottL> TheMuso, how long do you think we have to complete all test cases before the ISOs are to be released?
<ScottL> i realize that the 29th is the release date
<TheMuso> ScottL: Has there been a new iso notification to the dev list?
<ScottL> i'm working on it right now
 * TheMuso notes he had a public holiday yesterday so is still going through email from the weekend etc.
<ScottL> one came to me (i was subscribed) just today
<TheMuso> ah ok.
<TheMuso> ScottL: I'd say we have till Thursday.
<ScottL> but strangely i wasn't subsribed to the 64bit test though :?
<ScottL> but isn't thursday the 29th
<ScottL> TheMuso, and just to be clear:  if we don't get all test cases complete the final release of the ISO will NOT happen?
<persia> Right, but that shouldn't happen.
<TheMuso> ScottL: Correct
<persia> The release team will make an increasing amount of noise as the deadline looms.
<ScottL> persia, you say that in an egnimatic way....oh, you answered my question, heh
 * TheMuso sighs. Jack is going to get a whole lot more messy.
<persia> TheMuso: In general, yes, but can't we just pick jack2 and have it just work for us?
<TheMuso> persia: Yes. Looks like squeeze will have jack2 by default anyway.
<TheMuso> The multimedia guys will get jack2 in, and then worry about supporting multiple implementations later.
<TheMuso> Which is fine for us. Jack2 in squeeze will use the same package namespace, which is a no-brainer for us.
<persia> RIght, and I think we can (mostly) ignore the supporting-multiple-implementations bit, as long as the solution includes supporting the implementation we selected.
<ScottL> i wonder how performance is for jack1 vs jack2     i've read a few post at the forums that were not favorable
<TheMuso> Right. We can pick up the multiple implementatino stuff as a bonus later.
<ScottL> email sent to -user and -dev list for testing reminder, although it may be a little corny :)
<persia> TheMuso: I'd argue that whilst Ubuntu may want the multiple implementation stuff, the Ubuntu Studio team should focus on one solution considered best.
<TheMuso> persia: I agree.
<TheMuso> And since jack is in main, I feel its my responsibility to maintain it anyway.
 * persia needs to chase harder to make "main" go away.
<TheMuso> heh
 * ScottL hadn't considered that jack2 wouldn't automatically be in the main, hmmmm
<persia> ScottL: Let's wait-and-see: it may be that it can drop in without a code-review process.
<crimsun> if I can make it to UDS-M, let's discuss the integration bits
 * persia notes that even if "main" goes away, there will still be a code-review-process for some stuff
<persia> crimsun: Is it schedule or ash that makes that a question?
<crimsun> persia: I've transitioned to a position that requires me to be absent for 4-6 months per year, so prep for it is crimping my UDS-M planning
<persia> crimsun: Ah.  Good luck with the new role, and I'll hope you are able to make it.
<TheMuso> Jack2 is in unstable now, which will be great once Maverick opens.
<ScottL> troy and i have been talking (stimulating as always), i think we could benefit by focusing Ubuntu Studio towards university students/audio labs
<ScottL> hmmm, no one bit on that.  i'm surprised.
<TheMuso> I have no thoughts on that either way.
<crimsun> (sorry, I'm head-down looking at the abiword crasher) What's the scope of university students/audio labs?
<ScottL> excellent question crimsun, that's what i'm hoping rlamerio, stochastic and i can research and discover
<ScottL> but there are lots of them (students, and labs also i would imagine) and it would be great publicity to advertise
<ScottL> and since they are in university i would imagine that a percentage of them would have an academic interest in ubuntu studio dev work
<ScottL> assuming we are building ubuntu studio for users and we would like to acquire more users
<ScottL> to be honest, i do not think our current user base is very broad or dynamic and provides minimal feedback and assistance
<ScottL> i gave some thought to perhaps focusing on independent musicians or bands but they had two distinct disadvantageous 
<crimsun> I certainly concur with the last part of that statement; most users don't really provide feedback
<ScottL> 1) most were very likely to be ignorant of ubuntu or linux which would present a distinct and significant obstacle
<persia> I don't think that's fair.
<ScottL> not insurmountable, mind you but significant
<ScottL> why do you say that persia?
<persia> When my mother bought her new mic, she went to a Guitar Center, and the clerk there was very happy to help her with other Ubuntu issues whilst recommending a mic.
<ScottL> really?  wow, that's outstanding!
<ScottL> but i wonder how close that is to nominal
<persia> His rationale for using Ubuntu was that it was cheaper than other OSs for audio production.  I imagine that same rationale would apply to a number of other folk.
<ScottL> that is very, very true
<persia> Used computers can be very inexpensive, and enable interesting things.
<ScottL> 2) musician's may not be readily available or accessible
<persia> (or rather, far too busy between the day job, rehearsing, and dealing with arranging gigs, etc.)
<ScottL> absolutely, i've mentioned my outreach program before, that's what i'm doing, buy cheap computer and installing ubuntu studio on it, giving to a friend interested in recording music
<ScottL> but an university offers a static, probably extremely assessable location and most likely very well defined hours
<ScottL> they both share a concern about minimizing cost, although the university will have a fiscal budget
<ScottL> depending on how liberal (or progressive) the school is, they might even have a open source program
<ScottL> this also could translate into high schools, junior highs, and even elementary schools
<ScottL> daniel james wrote an article about getting FOSS into his neighborhood school
<ScottL> and as troy_s pointed out, these students grow up and take that experience with them
<ScottL> reaching out to the schools might even be considered a form of advocacy :)
<ScottL> with a quite potentially huge impact
<persia> I think that's a sensible and good goal, but don't close the options for others.
<persia> Consider instead providing a selection of tools that enables that model whilst still working for arbitrary folks just wanting to create.
<persia> As much as I think it's a good idea to have a precise target audience for a flavour, I think it's essential to keep in mind the broader goal of ensuring that software for creators is of acceptable quality and well integrated.  We are respected for doing that now, and it would be a shame to lose that in favour of improving integration in scholastic environments (for which the edubuntu project already provides significant coverage)
<ScottL> so, my dream of an audio only, no pulse audio, jack as only sound server, all apps built against jack, fits on a CD release is shattered?  ;)
<rlameiro> lol
<rlameiro> ScottL: we could try to do a UbuntuStudio JAck series
<ScottL> pesia, what's the chances of us releasing two ISOs?
<persia> ScottL: Why would you want everything agaisnt JACK?  1) not all software supports that, 2) I don't want to fuss about how my desktop alerts are processed.
<ScottL> :P
<persia> Exceedingly low unless there's an incredibly good reason.
<ScottL> i'm kidding persia, sorry
<persia> also, recognise that we share packages with the rest of Ubuntu, so we want to try to not do anything that makes any software not work in multiple environments.
 * ScottL 's 3 yo has been crying about the walle movie :(
<ScottL> sorry, persia, i was kidding about my jack only dream
<ScottL> i know pulse is staying and quite frankly i'm glad were finally getting towards (hopefully) a good integration with jack
<ScottL> i think that would be a huge milestone in the project, it certainly would gratify a lot of the users
<persia> Indeed.  Before pulse, all was fine: audio was just broken, and people could use JACK.  Then it got confusing as polyp became pulse and started to make things work.  Soon we can get to the new place, where audio just works, and people can use JACK.
<ScottL> rlameiro, did you file a bug against network-manager?
<rlameiro> not yet
<persia> Which bug against network-manager?
<rlameiro> network-admin
<ScottL> the one that rlameiro posted pictures of empty choices
<ScottL> sorry, wrong package on my part
<persia> OK.  The gnome-network-admin bug.  Right.
<persia> I thought we had *another* one, and was worried.
<rlameiro> lol
<ScottL> sorry again, persia, i'm not trying to raise your blood pressure tonight, seriously :)
<ScottL> but persia, if we get this bug addressed will it address many of the users concerns about networking?
<ScottL> and by networking I was presuming they meant wi-fi
<persia> Should do.  Looks easy to fix.  I don't believe we could get approval from the release managers to do it for lucid though.
<persia> Mind you, it might expose some other bugs, but that's fine :)
<ScottL> that's the price of progress sometimes :)
<persia> (hard to know if we have networking bugs if we can't even access the network administration interface)
<ScottL> but if we address the networking bug and get jack2/pulse audio playing nice, then that's a nice bit of improvement
<ScottL> and would address the most common user complaints i believe
<persia> Indeed, and if we sort those in maverick, although with other improvements, we ought be able to recommend all users to upgrade, and avoid too much pressure to do lots of LTS support.
<jussi> Have you guys notcied this? http://www.lionstracs.com/store/
<hansfbaier> jussi: SPAM?
<jussi> hansfbaier: huh?
<jussi> hansfbaier: just pointing out something that runs on linux, as featured on the kubuntu lead devs blog...
<astraljava> jussi: I'm sure [s]he just doesn't recognize your nick. :D
<jussi> astraljava: ahh, likely.
<hansfbaier> jussi: was not to sure about the url, looked like some shady store out there, wasn't brave enough to open it.
<hansfbaier> jussi: pretty cool gear
<jussi> hansfbaier: :) thats fine. yeah, it looks pretty nice stuff
 * abogani is wondering if someone of this Team will partecipate at UDS-m...
<jussi> abogani: o/ me
<abogani> jussi: Please if you'll have a chance could you show the needed for UbuntuStudio project to have a -lowlatency kernel or (more simply) the -preempt flavour for i386 also (it si already present but only for amd64)?
<persia> jussi: FYI, Lionstracs used to ship with 64Studio.
<jussi> persia: ahh
<abogani> persia: Who is Lionstracs?
<persia> abogani: A company that makes keyboards based on linux.
<abogani> persia: Thanks.
 * persia needs faster sync: the last sync job hasn't completed yet :(
<ScottL> persia, do you mean for the ISO?  I noticed that it took quite a bit longer for me too, but i used zsync this time instead of rsync
<persia> Yes, but the comment was mistargeted: it belonged in #ubuntu-testing :)
<rlameiro> new test cases out
<rlameiro> i will try to make the same test for AMD64
<rlameiro> all but the encription one
 * persia will do encryption again if someone else doesn't get to it first, but hopes to concentrate on bugfixing
<persia> ScottL: You about?
<persia> ScottL: Seems you're already in -release :)  Anyway, slangasek is hunting about release announcement stuff, and you seem like the right contact.
<ScottL> persia, sorry, son has been sick and i'm staying home with him, not checking too often on channel
<ScottL> but, yes, i am here, reading now
<persia> Hope he gets better soon.
 * abogani hope the same.
<ScottL> he's feeling better already, but he was up (and so we were) a few times last night while he was vomiting :(  no fun for anyone
<persia> Oh, good.  Annoying night, but better in the morning is always hugely calming.
<ScottL> release notes complete
<persia> Does slangasek know?
<ScottL> yes, i told him in -release channel
<persia> Cool.  Thanks a lot!
<ScottL> that's what i'm here for :)
<ScottL> if i couldn't get things done i probably wouldn't be here ;)
<persia> heh
<rlameiro> ScottL persia just submitted 3 test reports to the QA on the AMD64 iso
<rlameiro> now is missing the encrypt one
<persia> rlameiro: Thanks!
<persia> rlameiro: I hope you linked the network bug, etc.
<rlameiro> persia: i didnt
<rlameiro> sorry
<rlameiro> but i can modify it
<persia> Please do.
<rlameiro> is there a bug report on lp?
<persia> We need to indicate that the release is buggy in the ways we know it to be buggy.
<persia> You've been saying you'd file it :)
<persia> But it's essential to have these bugs so we can verify the release notes cover them.
<rlameiro> ok, i will try to do it now
<rlameiro> i am on middle of teaching, a student is late, so i will strat to file the bug
<rlameiro> where do i file it? ubuntustudio or general ubuntu?
<ScottL> i'm hoping to get most of the i386 this afternoon
<persia> rlameiro: Run `ubuntu-bug gnome-network-admin` on a finished lucid install (one of the tests)
<rlameiro> persia: i am filing it directly on launchpad
<persia> Please don't: the automated reporter adds all sorts of useful information.
<persia> But if you really must, it's against /ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools
<rlameiro> yes i knbow
<rlameiro> i just need to know the package version
<rlameiro> is anyone on 10.04
<rlameiro> persia: the problem is that i cant do that because i dont have network in 10.04.....
<persia> OH, heh, right.
<persia> Don't worry about the version then.
<persia> Nor about the automatic filing.
<rlameiro> i will let a note, that i didnt filed the bug via apport because i didnt had network
<rlameiro> !570828
<rlameiro> how do i ask for the bug?
<rlameiro> !ubottu 570828
<rlameiro> lol
<rlameiro> !bug 570828
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570828
<persia> Thanks!  Now link it to your tests in the ISO tracker.
<persia> (ask in #ubuntu-testing if the procedure isn't obvious)
<rlameiro> persia: done
<rlameiro> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/4129
<rlameiro> persia: please look at the bug
<rlameiro> some guy made it invalid
<rlameiro> ......
<rlameiro> grrrrrrrrrrrr
<rlameiro> why dont they read before
<abogani> rlameiro: Studio don't use NetworkManager?
<rlameiro> no
<rlameiro> abogani: it uses gnome-network-admin
<abogani> funny
<ScottL> rlameiro, i set the bug back to new and explained to Milan that it's for ubuntu studio lucid (not hardy and not just ubuntu)
<ScottL> hopefully i didn't make anyone upset :)
<ScottL> and thanks for filing the bug
<rlameiro> np
<rlameiro> stochastic: thanks for changing the state of the bug...
<rlameiro> persia: did you readed the bug?
<rlameiro> they are debating why we dont use the network manager
<rlameiro> maybe someone should expllain why ubuntustudio doesnt use it
<stochastic> rlameiro, I did what to which bug?
<rlameiro> stochastic: to the network bug
<stochastic> how long ago was that?
<astraljava> I think that was ScottL, not stochastic.
 * stochastic thinks so too
<rlameiro> arent you eric?
<stochastic> yes I am, what's the bug number
<rlameiro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/570828
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless" [Undecided,New]
<ScottL> i changed the bug
<stochastic> yup, I haven't touched that one
<rlameiro> ah
<rlameiro> ok
<ScottL> i'm sure there was a good reason for Studio's choices (i just wished i knew what it was)
<rlameiro> oops
<rlameiro> yeah
<rlameiro> i must imagined that
<rlameiro> sorry stochastic 
<astraljava> I think persia explained it just a day or two ago, something to do with using resources all the time scanning for wireless networks etc (NetworkManager), instead of just using resources when user actually configures networking (gnome-network-admin).
<astraljava> Dig back from the backlog, it shouldn't be too hard to find. :)
<stochastic> ^^ yes, and the added fact that many studio boxes will not need to be connected to the internet in a true studio setup
<rlameiro> stochastic: well, that doesnt seems to me like the majority of the cases...
<stochastic> rlameiro, I wasn't involved in the decision, I just recall that as one of the talking points at the time
<rlameiro> astraljava: they are asking for that info, maybe i cant point them to the logs
<rlameiro> stochastic: I know
<ScottL> amd64 ISO full disk w/ encryption test case still needs to be completed
<ScottL> i386 ISO test cases are all complete
<TheMuso> WHo is writing a release announcement?
<detrate> nice, I just got my new Hercules DJ Control Steel in
<ScottL> TheMuso,  i think stochastic did it last time, but what does it entail?
<ScottL> isn't it just mainly the release notes?
<TheMuso> ScottL: yes
<TheMuso> slangasek: was asking about them in #ubuntu-devel.
<ScottL> i believe i took care of that TheMuso   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/10.04release_notes
<TheMuso> ScottL: ok does slangasek know about that?
<ScottL> persia pointed me at where slangasek was asking about release notes and i took care of it and then told him so
<ScottL> TheMuso, yes
<TheMuso> ScottL: ok thanks
<ScottL> always glad to help
<ScottL> persia: will you be able to get the last amd64 test (w/ encryption) ?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-28
<persia> ScottL: When I finish waking up, I'll get it started
<ScottL> persia, oh, sweet, thank you :)
<rlameiro> !bug 570828
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570828
<rlameiro> seems to be headed to a inclusion/regression for lucid
<rlameiro> also, can someone make the last AMD64 test
<rlameiro> only one to go
<rlameiro> I dont like encryption very much on my only working computer, and production machine, so i cant test it.
<scott-work> persia had mentioned that he would take care of it
<rlameiro> nice
<scott-work> well, he mentioned he would try yesterday afternoon after he woke up
<scott-work> if he is still waking up we may have some problems :/
<scott-work> i have a meeting in 5 minutes but when I  get back i'll check the test cases and maybe send an email to the -dev/-user mail list if necessary (or if persia says he will still take care of it)
<scott-work> yay! per.sia got the last test completed :)
<rlameiro> w00t
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-29
<ScottL> alessio bogani (abogani) is trying to the per package upload (PPU) rights for the -rt kernel
<ScottL> if you were interested in placing a comment or endorsement on his application it would be greatly appreciated by alessio
<ScottL> you can find it here   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessioIgorBogani/linux-rtPPUApplication
<ScottL> and as an added bonus it would also serve the ubuntu studio team by allowing us (via Alessio) to directly maintain and support the -rt kernels
<rlameiro> I am on it
<ScottL> thanks abogani would appreciate it
<rlameiro> hello friends
<rlameiro> does anybody has right to change the webpage
<rlameiro> since ubuntu is already launched
<ScottL> cory and stochastic have rights i believe
<persia> http://torrent.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/lucid/release/alternate/ if you want to help seed in advance of the posting of the links.
<persia> (hint: for faster initial download start with the images used for testing: if they aren't perfect, most of the hunks will checksum correctly)
<rlameiro> i will try to zsync it to see if there are chages
<persia> Shouldn't be any.  All my test images worked as seeds except Ubuntu Desktop i386, which was 99.9% done when I tried to seed with it.
<persia> But if we can get a few of us seeding before lots of folks hit the torrents, the experience should be better (I think I'm the only seed right now)
<rlameiro> how do i add a seed it?
<persia> Depends on your torrent client, but it usually works if you put the iso in your download directory, and then open the torrent.
<rlameiro> transmission
<rlameiro> ok
<persia> OK.  Start transmission, load the torrent files from the links, and try to save to the same location you already keep your isos.
<rlameiro> i need to change the name of the file 
<rlameiro> ok seeding
<rlameiro> :D
<rlameiro> the AMD64 version
<rlameiro> lol 8 peers :D
<persia> Cool!
<rlameiro> well now 16
<rlameiro> i only can upload 35k
<rlameiro> or else my connection will be so slow, that my girlfriend would kill me
<persia> That's OK.  2 seeds looks better than one, even if I'm pushing at 1Mpbs and you're pushing at 35Kbps :)
<persia> We just need someone to do another i386 seed.
<rlameiro> sorry persia 
<rlameiro> my adsl only has 400kbs upload
<rlameiro> maximum of course
<rlameiro> i never get it
<persia> No need to be sorry :)
<persia> I care more about the number of seeds listed in people's torrent windows.
<persia> The more seeds, the better it looks.  Doesn't matter how fast they are, as long as some are fast.
<rlameiro> persia: well i asked some guys at #opensourcemusicians to seed thei isos
<rlameiro> there should be now a little more seeds
 * persia looks
<persia> Everyone likes amd64 :)
<persia> But yeah, the counts are increasing.  Thanks.
<persia> Now we just need stochastic to update the web page, and we're golden.
<ScottL> doing i386 seed now
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-30
 * persia sees 8 seeds for each architecture now, looking better all the time.
<ScottL> persia, do you know where we can look at the download numbers and compare to the previous years?  someone posted it before
<persia> No idea.
<persia> But I don't think there exist any accurate download stats.
<persia> There's mirrors, and there's folks torrenting, and there's folks handing it about, etc.
<persia> So the best we can do is guess or compare.
<ScottL> maybe we should change the channel topic "lucid released, maverick development under way"   :)
<persia> Only a few folks (jussi01, _MMA_, joejaxx, Rexbron, AstralJava, luisbg) can do that.  I think the first step is coordinating with jussi about the channel.
* jussi changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | Ubuntu Studio code: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Lucid Lynx released, Maverick Meerkat development under way. | This Channel is logged |
<rlameiro> stochastic: Hi there, can you update the webpage to link to the new release?
<rlameiro> hey scott-work :D
<scott-work> stochastic: can you help us update the website for Lucid release?
<scott-work> hi rlameiro 
<rlameiro> lol
<rlameiro> i just asked about it
<rlameiro> need to go
<rlameiro> bye
<scott-work> bye rlameiro 
<stochastic> yes scott-work will do
<scott-work> stochastic: thanks :)
<rlameiro> Anyone in here has Op rights on #ubuntustudio ???
<rlameiro> someone to change the topic
<scott-work> jussi already did
<scott-work> it says lucid is released and meerkat development under way
<rlameiro> scott-work: it istill says 9.10
<scott-work> oh, #ubuntustudio...my apologies!
<scott-work> i was thinking -devel
<rlameiro> yeah
<scott-work> sorry ;P
<rlameiro> np scott-work 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-05-01
<ScottL> persia, are you around?
<rlameiro> hey andyzweb 
<jussi> o/
<jussi> ScottL: ping
<andyzweb> hello rlameiro 
<rlameiro> welcome :D
<andyzweb> rlameiro: so what kind of help does the project need.
<rlameiro> well
<rlameiro> testing
<rlameiro> artwork
<rlameiro> scripting
<rlameiro> testing
<rlameiro> testing
<rlameiro> :D
<rlameiro> bug fixing
<rlameiro> ScottL: wake up :D
<rlameiro> what would you like to do?
<rlameiro> ohhh
<rlameiro> packaging
<rlameiro> also
<jussi> andyzweb: probably bes to hang out here for a bit, until the other packagers etc wake up. then people can let you know wats really needed.
<andyzweb> lol, packaging and testing, I am just starting to learn how to make my own .deb packages.
<jussi> and rlameiro, please dont abuse the enter key ;)
<rlameiro> jussi: sorry, i know, its bad habit :D
<ScottL> jussi, pong
<andyzweb> do you have a mailing-list?
<jussi> andyzweb: yes, we do
<jussi> andyzweb: look on lists.ubuntu.com
<rlameiro> andyzweb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
<ScottL> hello andyzweb 
<andyzweb> found it
<rlameiro> you have here most of the links for mailing list and dev matters
<jussi> ScottL: thought maybe you could take care of this little lost lamb we found and captured :P
<andyzweb> Hello ScottL 
<ScottL> andyzweb, have you worked with the studio devs before?
<andyzweb> ScottL: Nope have no clue who they are :P
 * ScottL is helping the wife make dinner
<rlameiro> andyzweb: dont worry, sometimes it takes time to answer, most of the people have families and other things to do, so sometimes takes time
<rlameiro> lol
<ScottL> good andyzweb, then don't believe anything anyone else has told you about us then :P
<andyzweb> LOL
<astraljava> Yeah, we might be creepy, but that's just the first impression.
<ScottL> but we are glad to have you help us andyzweb 
<andyzweb> I don't trust any dev team that isn't creepy
<ScottL> hopefully we'll have a meeting pretty soon and work up a plan
<ScottL> rlameiro, i'm really hoping that you, stochastic, and i can research the uni audio labs and see if we can develop something to fill their needs
<ScottL> that would be a crazy, big group of users (and possible testers and future devs) :)
<rlameiro> yeah
<rlameiro> If i get accepted on PhD i could try to enforce it
<ScottL> but that probably will not see fruition during maverick, my guess is that we will be lucky to develop a full plan during maverick
<ScottL> rlameiro, hah, that would be awesome ;)
<rlameiro> but musicians arent programmers
<rlameiro> at least they can hunt bugs :D
<andyzweb> musicians won't like bugs :( but students... well they have no feelings :P
<ScottL> true, but i think many people drawn to ubuntu studio did not start out as programmers either though
<astraljava> That's bollocks, I know many musicians who program for their living.
<jussi> me also
<jussi> heya astraljava!
<astraljava> Howdy ho.
<rlameiro> well, musicians studion music
<rlameiro> not programmers that play
<jussi> I cant sleep...
<rlameiro> jussi: drink hot milk
<jussi> I think I might go grab a chot of that random finnish alcohol...
<jussi> I dont remember the name, but kinda similar to whiskey...
<jussi> astraljava: halp me? 
<astraljava> Jaloviina?
<ScottL> jussi, do you play an instrument?
<ScottL> or do you do electronic music?
<jussi> astraljava: yes, that one :D
<jussi> ScottL: neither
<ScottL> oh, i thought you meant that you played and programmed when you said "me also", sorry 'bout that
<jussi> weall actually, I kinda hit the guitar on occaision, but it doesnt sound like music
<ScottL> heh ;)
<jussi> an I have a harmonica... but again... the music is questionable...
<jussi> astraljava: are there shops open tomorrow that you know of?
<astraljava> jussi: Smaller ones should be, yes.
<jussi> astraljava: ahh that sucks... so its not yet "summer" then...
 * jussi cant wait to get to the elisa shopit store...
<astraljava> jussi: Wel the law changed a while back, so you might be lucky.
<andyzweb> now do most of you use the AMD64 version or the i386 version?
<jussi> andyzweb: I dont use ubuntu studio :P
<rlameiro> i use i386
<astraljava> Ahh, doubt that an Elisa shopit store will be open, though.
<rlameiro> and test the AMD64 ISOs :D
<jussi> astraljava: Im getting a milestone from saunalahti :D
<astraljava> jussi: Yeah?
<jussi> cant wait, just hope they have them instore on monday
<astraljava> jussi: What's that?
<jussi> astraljava: http://saunalahti.fi/puhelimet/puhelin.php?id=411&type=handsetmodel
<jussi> feck... maybe they arent available... it says "lisÃ¤Ã¤ tulossa" :(
<jussi> meh, gonna try sleep now
<astraljava> Nothing's coming up from that link...
<astraljava> Good night!
<jussi> astraljava: oh, anyway, motorola milestone, android phone
<astraljava> Oh okay, cool.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-05-02
 * TheMuso sighs. Redhat/Lennart writing another replacement init daemon.
<ScottL> TheMuso, why?
<ScottL> apparently he thinks this one would be more advantageous?
<TheMuso> ScottL: Yeah I know, I am just annoyed that he doesn't work with another solution to improve that.
<ScottL> from what i've read lennart is a rather singular individual (heh, is that a double redundancy?) and chooses his own path
<ScottL> at least from what i've read about rtkit
<ScottL> TheMuso, oh, i've been meaning to ask you, were you going to be able to add a comment or endorsement for abogani's PPU application?
<TheMuso> ScottL: I really haven't seen enough of his work recently to comment.
<ScottL> TheMuso, okay, thanks.  just wanted to make sure those who were going to comment did comment, since this would give the studio team a significant resource for kernel maintenance
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-04-25
<falktx> hey there
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-04-26
<rexbron> TheMuso: Hey Luke, are you familiar with dmraid?
<Kokito> hello folks
<holstein> Kokito: o/
<holstein> ScottL: i see we have new builds?
<holstein> maybe not...
<holstein> maybe im just getting the notification from the test tracker
<holstein> hopefully i have time tomorrow to do a few 64bits
<Kokito> hey holstein 
<ScottL> holstein, i think they are rebuilding yet again
<ScottL> i was going to ask in #ubuntu-release
<ScottL> holstein, there seems to be some questions not answered yet, it may not be prudent to test right now
<holstein> ScottL: i'll check in
<holstein> before i get crackin
<holstein> it would be tomorrow afternoon anyways
<ScottL> i think this is the second rebuild already :/
<ScottL> i hope it is sorted soon as we release in three days
<holstein> i know right?
<holstein> ScottL: nothing we/i can do though right?
<holstein> just test?
<ScottL> no, nothing for us to do but test
<ScottL> i think it has to do with all the alternate images
<ScottL> not ubuntu studio specific
<ScottL> holstein, it looks like the builds might not respin again
<ScottL> holstein, if you wanted to test the amd64 ISO's that would be awesome
<ScottL> holstein, i'm downloading the i386 currently and will do this this afternoon/evening when i get home
<astraljava> ScottL: I plan to test the amd64 too, a test install about a week ago went fine, but will check now. Also will give Alessio's kernel a spin too, though cannot test for xruns in recording and the like, but at least for basic functionality.
<astraljava> ...and by planning to test it I meant tonight, like in a couple of hours.
<holstein> astraljava: that would be great :)
<holstein> thanks
<holstein> scott-work: astraljava 
<holstein> looks like we might have new iso?
<holstein> maybe not...
<holstein> just make sure you have 20110426.1
<holstein> OR better yet
<holstein> confirm with -release
<holstein> sux to do all that work on old ones :/
<scott-work> holstein: yeah, this is very frustrating :|
<scott-work> it looks like 13:26 UTC cjwatson said that all the alternatives are rebuilding because the -security repository wasn't enabled by default :(
<holstein> hey
<holstein> a valid reason
<holstein> i like it :)
<scott-work> yeah, but we have very limited resources to do testing and i think there has been four or five images in the past three days?
<scott-work> and it is tough to ask people to test and test and test when they all have other things to do
<holstein> i unoffically swore to procrastinate
<scott-work> but people from #ubuntu-testing help quite a bit as well
<holstein> i forget when it was i tested
<scott-work> lol holstein, good plan!
<holstein> and we got all new images *while* i was testing the last case
<holstein> and i was sad :/
<holstein> *not that im doing that now
<holstein> im actually busy
<holstein> straightening out a website
<holstein> and getting some guy online
<holstein> a friend of a friend
<scott-work> i'm a little irritated because it's a bit of a process for me, i have to download (i use zsync though), then setup a machine, install ... do try to trhead this around watching kids, cooking dinner, cleaning up, taking dogs outside, helping with homework, keeping the kids from beating up each other, etc, etc, etc
<holstein> i play tonite, but i should be home at a somewhat resonable hour
<holstein> i could do some testing then
<holstein> scott-work: OH, i hear you
<scott-work> holstein: what kind of website?  like a hosted webpage? or like a bandcamp thing?
<holstein> i did 3 tests that day
<holstein> and it took 4ever
<scott-work> holstein: is he a musician?
<holstein> scott-work: nah, its an auctioneer
<holstein> local guys
<scott-work> i didn't know you knew how to do website :P
<holstein> im more of a technical consultant for them
<holstein> they need to change info a lot
<holstein> i moved them to a weebly site
<holstein> in hopes that it would be easy for them
<holstein> a nice balance of functionality and ease
<scott-work> weebly?  never heard of it, but then again, there's crap loads that i've never heard of either
<holstein> scott-work: i think its one of the better 'we make a site for you' sites
<scott-work> ah cool
<holstein> you can make elements
<holstein> with nice slide shows
<holstein> which they need
<holstein> and of course whatever text
<holstein> BUT
<holstein> you can bounce those elements between pages
<holstein> something that the old site didnt allow them to do easily
<holstein> when an auction happens
<holstein> they need to move it to another page
<holstein> *easily
<holstein> they were doing things like leaving SD cards with pictures on them at the office
<holstein> people driving 30 minutes to make that happen
<holstein> and put pictures on the site
<holstein> i got them on dropbox
<holstein> just little simple time-saving tools like that
<scott-work> wow, you really hooked them up then :)
<scott-work> i was looking at the weebly site a bit
<holstein> its not bad
<holstein> decent prices too
<holstein> im just forwarding their URL
<holstein> so, they can bail on it if they want
<holstein> but, so far, its working for them
<holstein> the girl that was entering data just moved
<holstein> and they need someone else to do it
<holstein> SO, im kinda covering for that for a minute
<holstein> since they have 6 auctions coming up in the next few weeks
<holstein> their mailing list is a totally mess
<holstein> thats next*
<holstein> you cant un-subscribe
<holstein> nothing is auto-mated
<scott-work> heh, i watched the weebly video on their homepage and now i want to make a website :P
<holstein> ive tried some of the others
<holstein> even the weebly ad on the totally free site is subtle
<holstein> and down at the bottom
<holstein> these guys are paying, and i get to see some of the extra things you get when you pay
<scott-work> i dont' really have a reason to build a website, i'd be doing it for fun...but seeing as i don't really have time i probably won't
<scott-work> holstein: i asked cjwatson if they were planning any further respins to please let me know as we had people scheduled to test, he said that this was the last of which he was aware
<astraljava> holstein: I used the link on iso.qa.u.c
<astraljava> holstein: Shouldn't that be what needs to be tested?
<holstein> astraljava: hopefully
<holstein> BUT
<holstein> i got an email since you said you were testing
<holstein> that said there were new ISO's
<astraljava> Oh?
<holstein> so i wanted to let you know
<astraljava> Oh crap, so did I.
<holstein> 20110426.1
<astraljava> Oh well, zsync should get it fast.
<astraljava> Good call, thanks for the heads up!
<holstein> ^ thats *should* be the lastest
<holstein> astraljava: yeah, its a drag wasting time on old ones
<astraljava> It would be. Fortunately started reading the channel backlog right before starting the installer. :)
<astraljava> Entire disk without encryption succeeded, and thusly reported.
<astraljava> Auto-resize similarily succeeded, and reported.
<holstein> astraljava: you are awesome
<holstein> everyone thanks you :)
 * astraljava bows humbly
<astraljava> Wish I can do much, much more the next cycle, though.
<astraljava> Planning to, and might succeed this time around.
<scott-work> thanks astraljava , that is awesome :)
<holstein> astraljava: hey, this iso testing is SO helpful
<scott-work> only amd64 with encryption left
<scott-work> holstein: are you being sarcastic or serious?
<holstein> im serious
<holstein> its time consuming
<holstein> id rather jab a fork in my eye ;)
<holstein> OK, its not that bad
<holstein> but still, its time consuming
<holstein> and it seems like we have less and less time to get it done
<astraljava> Well, I do still understand the reasoning behind it.
<holstein> OH
<holstein> its necessayre
<holstein> its necessary
<astraljava> scott-work: Doing the encrypted amd64 right as I type.
<astraljava> scott-work: Also the manual partitioning needs to be done.
<astraljava> holstein: Oh okay, just realized what you meant there. :)
<holstein> astraljava: regardless, im not trying to be sarcastic
<holstein> i appreciate your time :)
<astraljava> Understood. :)
<astraljava> It's fine, I like to test on real hardware, the one I would be using it. Gives me more confidence.
<astraljava> Would be faster on virtual machine, but I hate those, and it wouldn't be for real anyway.
<astraljava> That was weird, will have to see it again. Booting into the encrypted requires fiddling with virtual terminals so that you get to see the passphrase dialog on top of splash.
<astraljava> Yeah, switching to VT[1-6] and then back to 7 is required to see the dialog.
<astraljava> I guess the install can be marked successful still?
<scott-work> i would presume so if you think this is a problem with VM rather than the actual ISO image
<astraljava> Actually I have no idea what the problem could be. On #ubuntu-testing people aren't seeing this, neither on real hardware (like mine) nor on virtual machines.
<astraljava> Marked as passed, but included a bug id lp #771460. Hope it's okay.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771460 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Need to switch to VT[1-6] and back to VT7 to see the "unlock with passphrase" dialog on encrypted entire disks installs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771460
<astraljava> Continuing for the final test case.
<astraljava> Alright, all test cases passed and reported as such.
<astraljava> Looking forward to start using the system again. Hopefully some recording during the summer?
<astraljava> Oh well, time to head to bed now. Catch ya guys later.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-04-27
<scott-work> astraljava and holstein: thanks for helping with ISO testing :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Least I did something. Big, no huge, problems for me personally this dev cycle rendered me useless. Maybe not the next?
<scott-work> astraljava: i heard a little bit of what happened and i'm sad to hear that you went through it
<scott-work> astraljava:  so here's to hoping for better during next cycle *clink*
<astraljava> scott-work: Cheers!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-04-28
<TheMuso> /c/c
<Kokito> hello folks
<holstein> hey Kokito 
<holstein> anything new with you?
<Kokito> not much holstein 
<Kokito> been busy with work this week, so no time or energy for ubuntu :)
<Kokito> right now I am hanging out with some friends
<holstein> cool
<holstein> i just got home myself
<holstein> watching some tube
<Kokito> how about you
<Kokito> nice
<holstein> had the last of a 3 week residency at a local theatre
<Kokito> residency?
<holstein> just a weekly thing really
<holstein> 3 wednesdays in a row
<Daviey> Hello... Anyone around
<Daviey> (somewhat urgent)
<Daviey> ?
<abogani> About what?
<Daviey> abogani, Where are the natty release notes?
<abogani> Daviey: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/beta
<Daviey> abogani, erm, for ubuntu studio?
<Daviey> We were expecting it to be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/11.04release_notes 
<abogani> Daviey: Only official release notes are avaiable *before* effective release.
<Daviey> abogani, wait what?
<abogani> Daviey: Anyone of you testing it?
<Daviey> abogani, I'm looking for the Ubuntu Studio release notes for Natty final, so a link can be included in the official ubuntu release announcement.
<abogani> Daviey: So you have to talk with ScottL
<Daviey> abogani, Do you have any way of getting hold of him quickly?
<abogani> Daviey: no sorry :-(
<Daviey> crap.
<Daviey> ScottL, Can you please make sure https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/11.04release_notes is updated please.  I'm going to copy content from the tech overview for now
<ScottL> Daviey, that is what effectively what i was going to do
<Mocchi> Ping ScottL.
<scott-work> hmmm, ping and run?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-04-29
<holstein> jussi: you mind to update the topic, when you get a minute :)
<holstein> the the other channel *
<holstein> strange bird*
 * abogani waves all
<abogani> ailo: ping
<ailo> abogani, pong
<abogani> ailo: May I remove the 39-lowlatency kernel?
<ailo> abogani, On my behalf, yes. 
<abogani> ailo: Ok thanks!
<ailo> abogani, I believe there are other testers building their own anyway
<ailo> And I was never able to get anyone suffering from irq share to test it, so..
<abogani> ailo: Both are good reasons to delete it.
* scott-work changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: [Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | Ubuntu Studio code: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Natty Narwhal released, Oneiric Ocelot development under way. | This Channel is logged | Meetings first Sunday of each month]
* scott-work changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | Ubuntu Studio code: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Natty Narwhal released, Oneiric Ocelot development under way. | This Channel is logged | Meetings first Sunday of each month
<holstein> ailo: you have any ideas about how to fake IRQ problems?
<holstein> i have a laptop
<holstein> ha*
<holstein> had*
<holstein> it had the firewire port shared with a few USB ports
<ailo> holstein, Good point. I never thought of that. Maybe it's possible to do with pci cards at least
<holstein> but, i havent been able to make it boot 
<holstein> i think its totally dead
<ailo> holstein, I believe abogani already removed the 39 kernel
<ailo> holstein, But, if you have time, you could do some comparison testing between -generic and -lowlatency
<holstein> ailo: yeah
<ailo> holstein, Preferably 2.6.38-8
<holstein> i'll make time for that*
<holstein> im stoked to be zeroing in on whatever we are going to do for 12.04 :)
<ailo> holstein, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/generic_vs_lowlatency_test_results
<astraljava> ailo: That's interesting! How did you execute the test?
<ailo> astraljava, Not very scientific https://wiki.ubuntu.com/generic_vs_lowlatency_testing
<ailo> astraljava, Just running a simple ardour session while loading the CPU to max compressing a file and opening a graphic program
<ailo> I would need to test more to confirm my results
<ailo> Would be interesting to see more machines and sound devices
<astraljava> ailo: Okay, thanks for that. I'll see if I can participate at some point.
<astraljava> I thought I saw abogani talking about an automated test at some point, but I guess it hasn't realized yet.
<ailo> astraljava, There's been talk about making a script to automate the test. I have used a puredata patch to stress the CPU, but the effect is the same as doing that manually by compressing a file and opening programs
<ailo> A script could be handy. One could leave the computer for some hours to do the test.
<ailo> astraljava, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/generic_vs_lowlatency_test_script
<ailo> A guy with nick meganerd was interested in creating the script, but hasn't been around for a while
<ailo> astraljava, I guess the biggest problem is getting people to participate in testing. A script could perhaps make that easier. 
<astraljava> ailo: Honestly, it would, and also it would make the test process more coherent and reliable.
<ailo> astraljava, Here are some older tests
<ailo> astraljava, As you can see, -generic was giving very different results at different times, using the same kernel 2.6.38-1
<ailo> astraljava, something else than the kernel was causing a different performance for the -generic 2.6.38-1 kernel between updates
<ailo> astraljava, To do reliable testing, I suppose we would need to do periodic testing over a lenghty period of time.
<astraljava> ailo: That's what I'm thinking, and that's where the automation comes in handy. No human can do such with needed reliability and resilience.
<ailo> astraljava, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RealTime
<ailo> Sorry, I missed I hadn't pasted the link
<astraljava> ailo: Nevermind, I know that page too well. I was gonna say it's time to put my scripting skills under rehearsing, but then I've caved in to pressure from the outside so many times before, I feel it's not fair to the project to make any promises anymore.
<ailo> Might be a good idea to test Natty and Oneiric both for 1/2
<ailo> 1/2 year
<ailo> astraljava, I would do it, but I'm not able right now
<ailo> astraljava, In one or two months, mayve
<ailo> maybe*
<astraljava> Well, you seem to have ideas, so I hope you can at least be a part of the designing process at the start of this coming devel cycle.
<ailo> astraljava, I'm writing a new version for ubuntustudio-controls, which I don't know whether it will be needed. I'll want to look at what falktx has done and see how that could be used in US. I will also work on documentation with ScottL, which is a big project as well
<ailo> Right now I'm coding puredata patches for my band. We have some gigs coming up this summer
<astraljava> ailo: Awesome! Wish I was doing stuff with music as well. Well, gonna try over the summer, but let's see how it goes.
<ailo> astraljava, For me, what seems like a heart issue, is making sure anyone installing Ubuntu can make it audio friendly as easily as possible. Many posts on forums are about setting up the system for audio, and getting audio devices to work. I would like to remove some of those obstacles.
<ailo> falktx has done some really nice work on some things on KXStudio, that I think deserve some attentions as well
<ailo> astraljava, Have you seen this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows
<ailo> astraljava, ScottL has been working on some things to try make things easier for new users
<scott-work> ailo: i whole heartedly agree with falkx doing good work and needing some more attention
<astraljava> ailo: Yes I've seen that. And I agree with ya, audio is close to my heart as well, I find few things in life more precious than music. Also falktx, and many people involved with this project are doing a spectacular work.
<ailo> I suppose most of the plans are covered here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning
<astraljava> Good to remind me about that, haven't taken a look at that in ages.
<scott-work> ailo: didn't you have a link at one time for the screen shot of edubuntu where it let the user choose applications to install?
<scott-work> ailo: nevermind, found it :)
<scott-work> http://www.edubuntu.com/sites/default/files/docimages/035-edubuntu-options-natty.png
<ailo> scott-work, I haven't seen that before...
<scott-work> maybe it was cory then
<scott-work> i had seen it on planet ubuntu
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-04-30
<Kokito> howdy
<ailo> How are things going concerning access to the Ubuntu Studio home page?
<ailo> ScottL, ?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-05-01
<macinnisrr> ScottL: Hi! I'm wondering how close to complete ubuntstudio 11.04 is, and whether it would be wise to begin building a livecd at this point. I'm building a livecd of Dream Studio as we speak, and would be happy to build an ubuntustudio version as soon as you give the go ahead. Also, I'm not sure what space is available at ubuntustudio.org. Could we host such a disc at that server?
<macinnisrr> BTW, I've been diving into ubiquity's code, and it seems like it will be surprisingly easy to add support for a lowlatency/realtime kernel (where ubiquity automatically chooses whether it should be PAE or not), as well as to add support for a package chooser like we discussed (so people can opges
<falktx> hey macinnisrr
<macinnisrr> falktx: hey! How's the natty conversion going?
<macinnisrr> god damn it! empathy in natty is apparently not working very well. I'm having it freeze up every time I type a message long enough to need word wrap.
<macinnisrr> nevermind. I see everyone else joining the room at the same time. Maybe it's freenode.
<falktx> macinnisrr: i think it's just you...
<falktx> macinnisrr: natty is going a bit slower than I would like
<macinnisrr> falktx: probably :)
<falktx> macinnisrr: did you got to make the cinelerra mod ?
<macinnisrr> falktx:  Yeah, for me too. The cinelerra mod is taking longer than I anticipated. Although I didn't think it would be an overnight thing, as I need to not only draw every button in GIMP manually, and subsequently edit the source package...
<macinnisrr> wow. This is driving me nuts.
<falktx> hehe
<falktx> macinnisrr: use webchat.freenode.com/net
<macinnisrr> anyway. My wife was recently diagnosed with cancer, so I've been spending less time developing, and because the cinelerra mod is by far the most work of all the things I want to do with Dream Studio, I've put it on the backburner, hoping to get it done sometime between now and 11.10
<macinnisrr> falktx: I think I'll do that...
<macinnisrr1> here i am back again, but in a browser.
<falktx> macinnisrr1: welcome
<macinnisrr1> falktx: anyway, as I was saying: Natty's taking longer here too. I thought I might be able to release Dream Studio on the 28th, but my customization's aren't playing well with the livecd....
<macinnisrr1> oh my god. I can't believe I just put an apostrophe on a plural.
<falktx> macinnisrr1: which icon theme are you using?
<falktx> macinnisrr1: btw, I made a metacity theme based on ambience, but with the new kxstudio colors
<macinnisrr1> faltktx: hydroxygen icon set, with custom folder and navigation icons that match  ubuntustudio colors. Also, I'm using unity by default , so I've made a new metacity theme that matches. What are your new colors?
<macinnisrr1> hydroxygen icon set can be found here: http://deviantdark.deviantart.com/art/hydroxygen-iconset-100826865
<falktx> macinnisrr1: old screenshot -> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/screenshots/scr001.png
<falktx> macinnisrr1: I hadnt made the metacity theme at that time yet
<macinnisrr1> falktx: looks cool! I see you're running unity too. Let me upload a couple shots of what I've worked out....
<falktx> let me try to get a new screen
<falktx> hm... need to relogin
<macinnisrr_> https://picasaweb.google.com/macinnisrr/DreamStudio1104?authkey=Gv1sRgCMyxjeTMyrCuSA&feat=directlink
<falktx> checking
<macinnisrr_> here are some shots of the new Dream Studio (and possibly future Ubuntu Studio) themes. The wallpaper is dynamic, BTW, and changes from light to dark based on time of day.
<falktx> macinnisrr_: amazing stuff...
<macinnisrr_> Thanks!
<macinnisrr_> as you'll notice, the panel transparency matches the dock, and the window buttons match what unity shows when maximized, providing a clean, unified experience ;-)
<falktx> yep, nice work there
<falktx> macinnisrr_: here's mine -> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/screenshots/scr002.png
<ScottL> macinnisrr_, ubuntu studio11.04 is released
<ScottL> macinnisrr_, you can find it here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/11.04/release/
<falktx> macinnisrr_: how do we enable white 'systray' icons?
<ScottL> we havent't updated the website because only apparently only one guy has access and he is scarcer than intelligence in congress
<falktx> btw, ScottL, ailo, holstein, current theme of kxstudio <-> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/screenshots/scr002.png
<macinnisrr_> falktx: nice! I like how you've brought the classic kxstudio look to unity. The system tray icons are part of a package called hydroxygen-mono, which is based on ubuntu-mono.
<falktx> macinnisrr_: hm... it doesn't work for oxygen... :(
<falktx> and thanks
<falktx> ScottL: ailo: you can see my *controls thing in that pic
<macinnisrr_> ScottL: ah! :-) I'll try building a livecd as soon as I get this Dream Studio disc uploading (my pc sucks, single core 2ghz, so I can only handle so much compressing/uncompressing at once. I'm not sure which part of my previous messages actually got sent, but do we know how much space we've got on ubuntstudio.org?
<macinnisrr_> falktx: for using anything gtk based (as unity is) I recommend hydroxygen. It's based on oxygen (mostly the same, but with additions, and meant for gtk), and I've even included kxstudio's distributor icon in my package as an option. BTW, although I use custom folder and nav colors, they can all be changed via a script included with the iconset.
<macinnisrr_> makes kde and gnome look great together.
<falktx> macinnisrr_: sound cool. where can I find your icon theme?
<falktx> i really need to try it
<macinnisrr_> falktx: add ppa:dreamstudio/dreamstudio-testing to your system, and look for hydroxygen-icon-set and hydroxygen-mono. In /usr/share/icons/Hydroxygen (or in the source file), you'll find instructions on customizing the set to suit your needs.
<falktx> macinnisrr_: nice, thanks!
<falktx> I can't download stuff now, but I'll try it ASAP
 * macinnisrr_ testing my livecd in virtualbox *again*. I thought I had all the kinks ironed out during maverick, but now I'm having to go through the whole process step by step to find the error, and unpacking and repacking the livecd takes forever!!!!! ARRRGGGHHH!
<falktx> macinnisrr_: i know what that feels like...
<falktx> I took a hell lot of time to figure out how to auto-add live user to audio group...
<falktx> now I don't remember how I did it... :(
<macinnisrr_> falkt: enjoy. I'll give you a quick hint about making it look like KXStudio: just type "sudo /usr/share/icons/Hydroxygen/change-type.sh kxstudio" followed by "sudo /usr/share/icons/Hydroxygen/change-type.sh naviblue" and finally "sudo /usr/share/icons/Hydroxygen/change-type.sh bluefolders"
<macinnisrr_> falktx: just edit /etc/adduser.conf, and uncomment the lines about extra groups. That way ALL users are in the audio (and video, and plugdev) group.
<falktx> hm, not the way I did it, but it works too
<macinnisrr_> faltkx: I've previously made dreamstudio-default-settings do this automatically, but I'm building a package right now called dreamstudio-live that will take care of all the other live-cd customisations (that don't have any bearing on an installed system, like casper and ubiquity settings) automatically (as soon as I figure out what I'm doing wrong right now). I'll let you know when it's done, as it should be pretty e
<macinnisrr_> falktx: how does your pulse-jack work?
<falktx> macinnisrr_: it force kills pulseaudio, and re-starts it using a special config file (very basic, with jack sink as default)
<falktx> there are other ways to bridge pulse->jack, but are a bit harder
<macinnisrr_> faltk: ok, mine too. Why does yours require single-user?
<falktx> macinnisrr_: i guess cause it depends on jack, and running it force kills pulseaudio everytime
<falktx> macinnisrr_: do you got jack working multi-user ?
<macinnisrr_> ScottL: BTW, whoever does the site does a great job aesthetically. It's really nice looking. I wish that you had access to the server (being the director of ubuntustudio) at least, though. We'll need to get it updated if we're changing the look.
<macinnisrr_> falktx: yes. I use a script I called pausepulse to set pulseaudo not to auto-respawn, then klll pulse. Then I use a script called pulsejack to do exactly what you've mentioned (although it then sets pulseaudio to auto-respawn again). It doesn't work with ardour's jack setup or from the command line (yet) but I've set these scripts as default in qjackctl, so that it runs pausepulse before jackd, and once jackd is star
<macinnisrr_> falktx: currently, these scripts and my custom qjacktl.conf are built into dreamstudio-default-settings (available from the ppa I mentioned), but I'm planning to split them out and add dreamstudio-pulse-jack as a dependency.
<macinnisrr_> falktx: BTW, I'd be happy to add both these packages (but rebranded to kxstudio) to your main ppa as soon as I get these kinks worked out.
<macinnisrr_> or rather your testing ppa ;-)
<falktx> macinnisrr_: i'm moving away from qjackctl, it doesn't support jackdbus (or even jack2) properly
<falktx> macinnisrr_: if you look at my pic, you can see my own tool to configure and manage jack, with integrated alsa-jack (asoundrc), a2jmidid and pulse-jack
<falktx> macinnisrr_: you should really try my 'cadence' tools once you got a change to -> http://repo.or.cz/w/cadence.git
<macinnisrr_> falktx: no doubt. I think qjackctl is too complicated and antiquated. What I really would like is to use j2sc and cadence (especially because it's integrated with system settings, awesome BTW!), but to point to a custom jack server called jackdpulse or something like that, which would be a script that would pass all your jack parameters as usual, but also run these other simple scripts. It would be only slightly more
<macinnisrr_> falktx: love it!
<ScottL> macinnisrr_,  canonical is a little slow getting me access *shrug* it is the way of things   part of that is my fault as well though
<ScottL> macinnisrr_, we are updating the website and it will probably be hosted on our own server so we have complete autonomy
<macinnisrr_> falktx: it's getting pulled in to Dream Studio's dependencies as soon as it's packaged properly for natty (which could be right now for all I know, I've been so busy getting ready for release I haven't checked your ppa for new activity in the last 3 days.
<macinnisrr_> ScottL: sweet.
<falktx> macinnisrr_: err, when you write long text, I can't see the whole thing...
<macinnisrr_> falktx: hmm. I'll try to keep it short. What did you miss?
<falktx> "but also run these other simple scripts. It would be only slightly more..."
<macinnisrr_> ...complex than my current setup, but then you could just substitue jackd with jackdpulse.
<falktx> ok
<macinnisrr_> falktx: I might need some help using variables in a bash script, however, as I've never done that.
<falktx> macinnisrr_: right now my focus is to "finish" (release alpha) of cadence, rework the ppa and complete the website
<falktx> macinnisrr_: sure, I can help you there
<falktx> macinnisrr_: btw, have you seen it recently? -> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/
<macinnisrr_> falkttx: totally, I understand. Personally, I've been having the most "fun" moving all my homebrew packages to my ppa, as I am just learning "proper" packaging (making source packages). But, in the long run, PPAs are the way to go. And yes, I was checking out your site the other day (I must admit I creep it often looking for news), it looks really good!
<macinnisrr_> falktx: say, what's drawing your desktop in that screenshot? nautilus doesn't allow icons to fall under the dock...
<falktx> I'm using nautilus elementary
<macinnisrr_> ah.
<falktx> macinnisrr_: wallpaper - http://kxstudio-team.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d3f0xf0
<macinnisrr_> falktx: is that, by any chance, based on gnome 3's default wallpaper? http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-themes-standard/plain/themes/Adwaita/backgrounds/stripes.jpg&imgrefurl=http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D58%26t%3D65880&usg=__8l9v7mbSRpTz1mYcTzBwPmgbQtU=&h=1200&w=1920&sz=241&hl=en&start=1&sig2=iyf48xJUHtLemw-m3MtB7A&zoom=1&tbnid=Ct3YhqfGRSIxvM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=150&ei
<macinnisrr_> falktx: nevermind. They aren't exactly the same, but maybe the same artist?
<falktx> macinnisrr_: original pic http://white-dawn.deviantart.com/art/KDE-Stripes-175023606
<falktx> this is surely a ripoff
<macinnisrr_> falktx: looks good though.
<macinnisrr_> falktx: just reading the artist's blog. They're both apparently based on the same idea.
<macinnisrr_> falktx: so, how much work would it be to write a section into a script that could acquire all of jackd's variables, and them pass them on *after* a section that invokes the pausepulse function I described earlier?
<macinnisrr_> falktx: BTW, I'm 100% behind the idea of bringing all distributions together :-)
<falktx> macinnisrr_: you would be better with a python script...
<macinnisrr_> falktx: can I call an outside binary from a python script (e.g. my already existing bash scripts)?
<falktx> macinnisrr_: yes
<falktx> macinnisrr_: notice that I want to make cadence not distro-specific, so I'll thank you if you do some testing, specially if you use jack1
<falktx> macinnisrr_: it's better to have a GUI than relying on scripts
<falktx> ^ personal experience
<macinnisrr_> falktx: sweet. OK. Well, You're the second person in a short while to recommend python. I'll have to take a look. Is python+glade what you use for cadence, j2sc, etc.? Also, yes, I'd be happy to test, although I only started releaseing during lucid, and maverick and natty are now jack2. I only have lucid on a VM, but I'd be happy to test there.
<macinnisrr_> falktx: I love GUIs, and think that any end-user app should definitely have one (in fact, I don't include and CLI programs with Dream Studio for that reason), but I'm a VERY novice programmer, and it's easy for me to design a program when I know how I would do it manually.
<falktx> macinnisrr_: I use PyQt for guis, nothing gtk, gnome or whatever
<falktx> macinnisrr_: Qt works fine on both KDE3, kde4, and gnome
<falktx> heck, also on windows and mac too (I've got the patchbay app working on Windows 7!)
<macinnisrr_> falktx: so I've heard (and seen ;-)). Do you code by hand (text editor) or use an IDE like QT4designer?
<falktx> macinnisrr_: I use Kate for coding python, Qt4Designer for creating GUIs, and QtCreator when coding C++ (needed by the plugin host app)
<falktx> macinnisrr_: Qt4-Assistant gives you the complete Qt4 API, very useful tool!
<macinnisrr_> falktx: very interesting. Until I started bash scripting (late last year), I had only done some VB in college, and BASIC in, like, grade 8 (I'm 30 now). I get all the ideas of programming, but I've been very leery to pick a language, as c++ seems too advanced for a novice like me, but I don't want something that nobody else uses, and I hate the idea of coding a gui in a  non wysiwyg environment. Looks like qt4+python
<falktx> macinnisrr_: i heavily recommend python
<falktx> macinnisrr_: and once you've got yourself good enough, the transition to C++ is very easy
<falktx> I only worry about python2 vs python3...
<macinnisrr_> falktx: when is that scheduled for release?
<macinnisrr_> nevermind. I see that it's already in use
 * macinnisrr_ thinks I've found the kink in my livecd build....
<macinnisrr_> falktx: any good books on python that you'd recommend?
<falktx> let me get the name for you
<falktx> ha, don't have it here, wait a moment
<falktx> macinnisrr_: best book ever -> http://www.qtrac.eu/pyqtbook.html
<falktx> teaches python basics too
<macinnisrr_> falktx: thanks!
<macinnisrr_> falktx: downloading as we speak.
<falktx> good
<falktx> macinnisrr_: don't be tempted to skip the first steps...
<falktx> they are very useful, and you'll need them at some point
<macinnisrr_> falktx: thanks. You must know me pretty well. I usually skip to what I think I need, only to find later that I should have just read through :-)
<falktx> hehe
<falktx> macinnisrr_: i'm telling you cause I did the same too, then I had to re-read the whole thing...
<falktx> time to go
<falktx> cya soon
<holstein> ScottL: you know
<holstein> today is actually meeting day
<holstein> i was thinking next week for some reason
<holstein> and didnt do jack about it :/
<holstein> ScottL: im going to let it go this month
<holstein> since we released
<holstein> and theres not really anything specific to talk about
<holstein> maybe get a team meeting going some other day this month
<holstein> *an informal thing
<ScottL> holstein, yeah, that sounds good as i'm completely unprepared
<holstein> i like to send out a reminder a week ahead of time
<ScottL> yeah, i don't think many would have shown up anyways because of that
<ScottL> we can't expect them to be better prepared that we are :P
<holstein> ScottL: i dont want to lose momentum
<holstein> because i cant read a calendar ;)
<shiftingcontrol> I upgraded 10.10 studio to 11.04 ,today it hung five times,twice using banshee and thrice using firefox.  . .
<shiftingcontrol> How can i report this ?
<shiftingcontrol> studio version
<holstein> shiftingcontrol: i would suggest trying to go package by package
<holstein> and not file against ubuntustudio
<holstein> at least not only against studio
<ScottL> holstein, maybe we should send out a reminder and do the meeting next week then
<holstein> ScottL: we can
<holstein> think about it
<ScottL> i would hate to lose momentum as well, but to be forthcoming, this weekend really isn't shaping up well for me
<holstein> im running out today
<holstein> but, im around tomorrow
<ScottL> i'll send out an email unless you want to do it
<holstein> ScottL: go for it :)
<ScottL> holstein, i'll do it later today then
<shiftingcontrol> I updated studio 11.04 from 10.10 ,it hung six times,today how can i report the bug ?
<ScottL> shiftingcontrol, you can look in launchpad for the application that was causing the hang and report the bug using the "report a bug" button
<shiftingcontrol> scott:It is difficult i was working with firefox,banshee,terminal which one should i go now ?
<ScottL> i would suggest that you try using just one of them for a whle and see if it causes a problem
<ScottL> shiftingcontrol, i'm not trying to give you a coy answer but please remember....
<ScottL> ubuntu studio is just ubuntu with additional package and some simple system tweaks (like adding the user to the audio group)
<ScottL> most problems that people have are not derived from ubuntu studio but from ubuntu proper
<shiftingcontrol> Scott:i was listening music and typing terminal once,same word start to report 
<shiftingcontrol> *repeat
<holstein> ScottL: did you see on the ML
<holstein> kokito has volunteered to update the site
<holstein> *the links to 11.04*
<holstein> can we just give him the keys to the executive washroom, so to speak?
 * ckontros waves
<ckontros> ScottL: We gotta get together a time to change the seeds. It will require me to upload a new *-settings package 1st though. Something I plan to get done by next weekend. (im branching now)
<ckontros> Hmm... Somethings changed. I can't upload to the development branch of -settings. Hit me up if someone can help. (namely scott or luke)
<ckontros> I also have to figure out how to correctly auto-apply my name/email addy in the debian changelog.
<astraljava> ckontros: DEBEMAIL="your@email" DEBFULLNAME="Your Name" into your .bashrc usually works.
<ckontros> I /thought/ that's how it worked but when I did a "dhc -a" it used a really old one of mine. Dont know where it pulled from.
<astraljava> ckontros: Check what you have with `env'.
<astraljava> ckontros: ...or just echo $<variable>
<ckontros> Odd. Doesn't seem to be anything. The host names are the same though. Maybe it got it from that somehow?
<astraljava> ckontros: Yeah, if there's nothing in those, then it pulls them somehow from other stuff.
<ckontros> So just add it anywhere to bashrc?
<astraljava> Yup.
<astraljava> And remember to source that in the terminal you're doing `dch -a' in.
<ckontros> How?
<astraljava> $ source ~/.bashrc
<ckontros> Hmm... I dont get it. I know I set this up before. Been a while so Im real rusty.
<astraljava> If it wasn't registered, though, it's not working somehow. You can of course grep the files for those variables.
<ckontros> Ok. Maybe Luke (TheMuso) can spare a couple of mins soon to get me sorted. Time to eat. :)
<astraljava> Sure. Let me know when you know, though. I'm intrigued to find the real reason it's not working.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-04-23
<ailo> len-dt: I think it would be great if you're able to create a clear case of xruns due to IRQ sharing, and see whether the rtirq srcript helps or not
<ailo> I should try to do that as well
<len-dt> ailo, sounds like work... 
<len-dt> I don't know If I can force sharing.
<len-dt> The only slot that shares is the one that shares with usb which I don't use.
<ailo> So, you were having issues only because of the IRQ number being too high
<len-dt> ailo, I very definately had xruns when downloading software when the NIC was using int 23
<ailo> I still think something must be causing the problem, something at a lower number maybe
<ailo> NIC?
<len-dt> network interface card
<ailo> Someone should make a hack to the kernel that makes these IRQ problems go away :)
<ailo> len-dt: At least it would be interesting to see the difference for you, with or without the rtirq script
<len-dt> ailo, not sure what happened. Mouse vanished and things froze.
<ailo> len-dt: If you could set the NIC card back where it was, and try with/withoutrtirq script
<ailo> I will try to duplicate your problem
<ailo> I have a wifi card I can use
<len-dt> ailo. ok, it will have to be another day.
<ailo> len-dt: Also, it might be interesting to test the -realtime kernel as well, in aboganis repo
<len-dt> The ensoniq messed with things when it was higher too... even having the module loaded first seemed to make a difference.
<ailo> If the -realtime is better at solving this irq problem, than it would be bad news I think
<len-dt> The RT kernel might give me better -p 32 stuff... 
<ailo> If the -realtime is slightly better in general, then I think it's no problem
<len-dt> -p 64 seems to be pretty stable even with PA-jack running.
<ailo> But, if it's clearly better at this IRQ stuff, than -lowlatency will be much more limited
<ailo> -p 64 is a good lower limit I think, for the larger mass
<len-dt> I have found that PA starts to use a lot of cpu as Jack's latency goes down
<ailo> Yes, but I don't think it causes any performance issues.
<len-dt> But if  I unload the jacksink module pulse seems to use next to nothing.
<ailo> I mean, it doesn't result in any audio drop outs. For people who want to limit their CPU, it will happen only when they are using loads of resource demanding realtime audio processing software
<ailo> Advanced reverbs, that sort of thing
<len-dt> I don't really know what the boundaries are. Synths use up resources pretty quick too. I found just playing too many notes at the wrong time took cpu to 100% and gave dropouts. I haven't really tried that since I moved cards though.
<ailo> That sounds bad.
<ailo> I have very limited experience in various soft synths
<len-dt> Well my son (6yrs) was basically leaning on the keyboard :-)
<scott-work> i see the studio images are being rebuilt and an "test the official RC" email went out
<acmeinc> Is anyone else noticing the xfce4 menu lacks an icon for Accessories and Internet?
<len-dt> acmeinc1, and some others we don't have apps for. (education)
<scott-work> acmeinc1:  is this a problem in today's iso image?
 * scott-work believes we have had icons for these menus in previous images, or would be very surprised if we didn't notice this before
<len-nb> scott-work There are icons but they are default not menu item specific.
<len-nb> It is easy to miss, The default looks ok for accessories, but not for network.
<len-dt> scott-work xfce-accessories.directory lists the icon as applications-accessories. a search of the /usr/share tree for *accessories* gets nothing.
<scott-work> len-dt: sorry if i'm slow on this, did something change some where along the line or has this been the behaviour for a while?
<len-dt> could have been for a while. because there is an icon showing it is not obvious. could be an xfce problem. I'm still looking. Just figured out I did the search wrong.
<len-dt> Hmm. there are icons.
<len-dt> scott-work, what icon theme are we using?
<astraljava> greybird?
<len-dt> astraljava, nope, not in the list. 
<len-dt> elementry Xfce dark
<astraljava> Ahh yeah. Sorry, I mixed the things up.
<len-dt> Not much in there. Where does it default to for icons missing from the theme?
<astraljava> I have absolutely no idea. I have sort of relied on others for appearance issues,
<len-dt> elementary-xfce has them.
<astraljava> len-dt: You will want to talk to ochosi on these matters. (better reachable on #xubuntu-devel)
<len-dt> astraljava, elementary does not either and that should be the fall back.
<len-dt> I think we were using the xfce one before.
 * len-dt has to pick up son from skool
<astraljava> Could be. Like I said, I have zero clues on such matters.
<scott-work> leaving work now 
<len-dt> astraljava, there is an index.theme in the elementary-xfce-dark directory. It says that it Inherits=elementary-xfce
<len-dt> and elementary-xfce says Inherits=gnome,hicolor
<len-dt> elementary-xfce has the icon we need... why doesn't it show?
<len-dt> I wonder if size matters.
<len-dt> hicolor is supposed to be the falback theme, but it has no icons in catagoies at all.
<len-dt> ScottL, when you get home... I found it. In our menu file we include Utility.directory instead of xfce-accessories.directory, Education.directory instead of xfce-education.directory, Network.directory instead of xfce-network.directory, GnomeScience.directory has no equivalent.
<len-dt> Probably... not sure, the science section could be eliminated. If the user installs a science program it would show as "other".
<ScottL> len-dt, good work!
<len-dt> I think we lost them when we cleaned up some of the gnome stuff. It used to be there.
<ScottL> maybe micahg could advise if this can be handled before release or should resolved after with an SRU
<len-dt> In any case the other bugs with the same file should be fixed at the same time.
 * len-dt means other obvious bugs.
<len-dt> other being zynjacku moved to synths frrom effects and xfce-mixer and mudita execpted from multi-media.
<len-dt> ScottL, I have a fixed file, can I send it to you?
<len-dt> The file is tested and works.
<ScottL> i'm trying to save it locally
<ScottL> len-dt, can you try it again please
<ScottL> okay, i said accepted and hit the save button so hope this works
<len-dt> I am not seeing progress.
<len-dt> I may have to email.
<len-dt> It timed out.
<len-dt> ScottL, the gmail account ok?
<len-dt> ScottL, sent it your email at gmail. I am not sure what went wrong with the transfer, but it timed out.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-04-24
<ScottL> len-dt, i accepted the transfer and clicked save when the folder popped up but it certainly didn't seem to work :/
<ScottL> the gmail account should be fine as well
<len-dt> ScottL, ja, could be the server is not set up to allow that or something.
<len-dt> It should be in your mail.
<ScottL> thanks
<micahg> ScottL: sure, that's SRUable, in theory, there's time to respin for it as well if you want
<ScottL> micahg, the icons are clearly a default, generic icon, in your experience is this something work respinning?
<ScottL> perfect world i would like it fixed before release, but i understand that there is a "cost" associated with it
<micahg> ScottL: it's your product, the cost is retesting
<len-dt> I haven't tested the i386 yet anyway.
<len-dt> I haven't looked to see if the 64 is done.
<ScottL> micahg, i would love to fix this then, but unfortunately i don't have time to get this into bzr tonight
<ScottL> if you or astraljava are able to do it then that would be great, but i expect that everyone is probably busy
<ScottL> so i think it will be okay to SRU it
<ScottL> sorry if i am giving mixed signals about fixing this problem, but the kids are making my evening slightly difficult and i haven't come close to finishing the tasks that i need to get done tonight
<len-nb> ScottL, the menu items are labelled, not a show stopper.
 * len-nb notes that his menus are fine :)
<micahg> ScottL: you don't have to wait for release to SRU and updates are downloaded on install (assuming the box is checked)
<astraljava> Yeah I will test amd64.
<astraljava> tonight...
<astraljava> ScottL: How are the release notes coming?
<frewsxcv> Is the pre-release the RC?
<astraljava> frewsxcv: Yep.
<ronoc> TheMuso, ping
<scott-work> astraljava: yes, i am working on release notes, i have my evernotes list that i need to fit into the notes that skaet already set up
<acmeinc> has there been reports of chromium-browser crashing in 12.04?  my computer will completely freeze randomly when opening chromium, nothing reported in syslog.   in addition, i have reboot problems.  after initiating a reboot, the computer starts only about 75% of the time, the rest, it makes it past grub, and just holds at a black screen.  finally, my raid is constantly becoming degraded, however this is probably a re
<astraljava> acmeinc: I haven't heard of any such issues, but it doesn't mean there wouldn't be any.
<astraljava> acmeinc: Please file bugs, or if this is testing the latest images, submit results. Writing several issues into one outburst on IRC usually won't help much in getting them fixed. :)
<micahg> acmeinc: should be fixed, when did you last update your system?
<acmeinc1> i grabbed the pre-release, and have been testing that..there haven't been any update notifications since.  
<scott-work> for the record and clarity for the channel, chromium-browser is not installed by default in ubuntu studio
<scott-work> although we could certainly consdier it in future releases
<scott-work> ..
<scott-work> at uds, jorge has asked the derivative leads to make a 2-3 minute presentation with slides
<acmeinc1> micahg: when was the issue fixed?  for a daily after the pre-release, or an update yet to be posted?
<micahg> acmeinc1: well, one crash issue was fixed, there might be more, if your precise system is up to date, go ahead and file a bug (ubuntu-bug chromium-browser) with whatever information you have
<acmeinc1> can anyone direct me to the proper bug report URL?  I've been trying a few different locations and having problems.  Specifically the iso.qs page is flawed and will not allow me to log in, not sure if this is the proper place.
<knome> acmeinc1, have you logged in to launchpad?
<acmeinc1> i was using my single login user/pass
<knome> well, iso.qa.u.c is working for me
<knome> you aren't able to report bug *from* there, just link to the bug numbers
<knome> the place where to report bugs depends on the bug
<acmeinc1> launchpad thinks my username is a random string of digits over 160 chars long :/
<knome> have you tried relogging?
<acmeinc1> there it is...before it was logging me and just giving weird errors like, "fill out the form below", but there's no form...now that i logged launchpad, and updated my crazy random username, i'm in now
<acmeinc1> thx
<knome> np
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-04-25
* astraljava changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Release Candidates been moved to Final! YAY!
<len-dt> scott-work, astraljava  This move to final appears not to need retest. Is that correct?
<astraljava> len-dt: Yes, that's my understanding too.
<len-dt> astraljava, and then release (when it comes) will be what we base 12.10 on I would guess.
<scott-work> just this morning i signed the release manifest to change the status as "approved for release"
 * len-dt is new to this stuff as this is his first cycle...
<len-dt> As some people have talked about AWN as a panel for US, I downloaded it to look at. It pulls in gnome3 fallback and unity... some 118 packages.
<len-dt> It looks pretty, but in the end it is just another panel and I think I could get the same functionality out of the xfce panel.
<len-dt> scott-work, astraljava  I think if we are going to do workflows with changing menus similar to what I had mocked up, it would be best to work on them as an xfce panel applet.
<scott-work> len-dt: that is the reason that we haven't really made more progress with AWN (re: dependecies)
<len-dt> scott-work, I think we could make xfce panel look the same minus the fancy graphics.
<len-dt> I don't see a vast difference in the underlying function.
 * len-dt is off to work, will read back log on return.
<scott-work> len-dt: re: work flows - if we create any new applications we need to especially cognizant of the time it will take to get into the repositories (which could be months)
<len-dt> scott-work, if there is nothing out there now, we have no choice. What I have  done is all script... no source. That could be dropped into our "look" package.
<scott-work> len-dt: it could possibly, but the package approval process is in place for a variety of reasons, including vetting new code for security (along with other items) and shouldn't be abused unecessarily
<scott-work> we should think through this before making any decisions
<astraljava> len-dt: There'll usually be huge changes when the archives open again, but probably not this time as Debian is frozen for a new release as well.
<astraljava> Not really sure about how's it going to be this time.
<astraljava> Right, new amd64 images.
<astraljava> ;./
<astraljava> bug #899001 is haunting us, so please check if you can help with that. I'll be testing it within the few next hours, but I could use some backup if possible.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 899001 in sessioninstaller (Ubuntu) "gst-install wants to install i386-version of codec packages on amd64" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/899001
<astraljava> Err... sorry, the image isn't yet available. I'll shout out again when it is.
<astraljava> Ok, go fetch!
<knome> what? i didn't hear. shout louder
<len-dt> astraljava, I can't help with the amd64 stuff... 
<len-dt> astraljava, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/216/builds still shows the test results from before the respin for adm64 ISOs
<len-dt> astraljava, scott-work and whoever else can test the amd64 ISO, the page to post results is http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/214/builds
<acmeinc> I'm confused regarding the Testcases page.  Is it asking us if *only* the install passed with no bugs, or if install AND testing passed with no bugs.
<len-dt> acmeinc, Which page? (url) I think the two tests are live works and install works.
<acmeinc> len, yes that's the one...so I'm assuming I would say "Passed with no bugs" if my install worked from both the Live and Install mode, even though I'm seeing bugs post installation?
<acmeinc> in short, is this page only asking to be sure the installation from both modes is working properly?
<scott-work> len-dt: i can test the 64bit this evening
<len-dt> acmeinc, There are some known bugs that will not be fixed before release.
<len-dt> scott-work, Ok .
<len-dt> acmeinc, we would only be looking for bugs that make things unusable at this point.
<len-dt> acmeinc, so after install, it should reboot and the installer should be able to login and run something (irc or browser for example.)
<len-dt> acmeinc, Installer means the person who installed, not the installer software.. 
 * len-dt is not a great communicator.
<acmeinc> len, ok, thx for the clarifation, install works just fine, and sample apps as well.
<acmeinc> i'll mark it
<len-dt> acmeinc, Good.
<len-dt> I think thats our release then.
<acmeinc> would you rather me post general 12.04 questions to the non-devel area?
<len-dt> acmeinc, I don't know really, if it is about how to then yes, if it looks like something that could use changing here is good.
<acmeinc> well it seems bluetooth has gone away since 11.04-studio, which is a concern of mine
<acmeinc> unless its just done differently...in that case, i'd post to the general
<len-dt> acmeinc, I think that would be a bug. I think that was mentioned before... none of us has the hardware to check that I know.
<len-dt> Oh that was you all ready :)
<acmeinc> len, i have a bluetooth dongle i used successfully in pairing on 11.04.  on 12.04 the applet is gone..i tried bluemon and installing th e applet manually, but neither find the "adapter".  
<acmeinc> Would you like me to file a bug, or note an existing bug, or try-out something for you?
<len-dt> It needs a bug report. Is there an existing bug?
<acmeinc> i wouldn't know :)
<len-dt> acmeinc, if there was an applet before it should still be there. If we are missing it. That is a bug.
<len-dt> acmeinc, I don't see a BT applet listed in the available panel applets. I don't know if that is because my hardware doesn't support BT though.
 * len-dt is gone to pick kids up at school.
<acmeinc> report filed under Ubuntu Studio Project, I hope that was right.
<scott-work> was typing something on another channel and thought i should share here, hopefully the paste works well:
<scott-work> [16:39] <scott-work> _guitarman_: what if we scripted opening qjackctl, starting jack with certain settings, open ardour + hydrogen + whatever else, and make all the connections? [16:39] <scott-work> _guitarman_: what if we applied that same idea to work flows for creating graphics?  or editing video? [16:40] <scott-work> _guitarman_: what if we made this use a gui and had rectangles for each "process" for a work flow
<scott-work> crap, no
<scott-work> [16:39] <scott-work> _guitarman_: what if we scripted opening qjackctl, starting jack with certain settings, open ardour + hydrogen + whatever else, and make all the connections?
<scott-work> [16:39] <scott-work> _guitarman_: what if we applied that same idea to work flows for creating graphics?  or editing video?
<scott-work> [16:40] <scott-work> _guitarman_: what if we made this use a gui and had rectangles for each "process" for a work flows with choices and a default chosen?
<scott-work> [16:40] <scott-work> for example, let's consider editing video:
<scott-work> [16:40] <scott-work> user starts the app
<scott-work> [16:41] <scott-work> see's that there are choices for editing audio, editing video, creating a title screen, and publishing to web
<scott-work> [16:41] <scott-work> so each process (e.g. editing audio vs editing video) is in a rectangle and the various choices are under it
<scott-work> [16:42] <scott-work> the user clearly now understands not only what work flow we intended, which applications are available, but also which apps we suggest as "preferred"
<scott-work> [16:42] <scott-work> what if we could generate a script for the user once they have their preferred work flow or tool chain (chosen applications)
<scott-work> [16:43] <scott-work> that is just a sample of what i mean by "user improvements" or "usage improvements" = making it easier for users
<scott-work> [16:44] <scott-work> also we are considering a "record mode" for audio, maybe it turns off network manager, pulse audio, blue tooth, ubuntu one if they are running
<scott-work> [16:44] <scott-work> maybe it also changes or adds a dock on the side of the screen that shows only applications for audio, maybe even have then sequences to mimic the work flow
<scott-work> [16:45] <scott-work> this idea could also be applied for video or graphics or photography or ebook
<scott-work> also, we could even consider that different workspaces can be named, have their own backdrops, and maybe even have their own docks (i'm guessing on this one)
<scott-work> maybe have an "video" workspace that has applications in the dock for video work
<len-dt> ScottL, I don't like the workspace idea for at least two reasons :)
<len-dt> ScottL, 1) I normally use more than one WS for just audio (or just other workflows for that matter)
<len-dt> ScottL, 2) having workspaces with different BGs an panels increases the system load all the time.(memory at least)
<len-dt> ScottL, 3) (I said two right? :)  it would encourage people to leave unrelated apps running in an unseen WS which would also use extra resources
<len-dt> ScottL, KDE (apparently) already offers such a setup, so installing kubuntu and playing with it might give you an idea how it would work out.
<len-dt> ScottL, KDE was not chosen for US  because it is a resource hog.
<acmeinc> seems like a lot of work to benefit a select few.  i have a script which opens my audio recording suite in succession, but really, how many people will do the same? my 2c
<ScottL> len-dt, dont' sweat about it yet ;)
<ScottL> these are just ideas, nothing concrete and i wanted to bring these and others up to the group and try to find a good direction forward
<len-dt> ScottL, no sweat, just my two cents.
<ScottL> i imagine as we talk through these issues (like you mentioned) we will find our path
<len-dt> ScottL, the more ideas we have the more ideas that are left over once we shoot down the unusable ones...
<ScottL> len-dt, acmeinc, i saw you talking about the latest image, how did the testing go?  any concerns for release (not small ones)?  is there a reason not to tell #ubuntu-release that it is ready for release?
<len-dt> ScottL, I have no concerns...
 * len-dt must have missed _something_
<len-dt> ScottL, That is with 32bit.
<acmeinc> i can finish testing 64 (latest) tonight at midnight...im at work now
<len-dt> -queuebot/#ubuntu-release- ISO Tracker: Ubuntu Studio DVD amd64 [Precise Pre-release] has been removed
<len-dt> -queuebot/#ubuntu-release- ISO Tracker: Ubuntu Studio DVD amd64 [Precise Final] has been updated (20120425)
<ScottL> acmeinc, testing is done my friend :)
<ScottL> i have to finish release notes tonight as well and then start emailing people/places/lists
 * len-dt is busy trying to figure out backup order for all the computers around here.
<acmeinc> well then...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-04-26
<astraljava> ScottL: Oh good, I just tested our image and it plays mp4 video out-of-the-box. Wonder why is that?
<ScottL> astraljava, i haven't a clue but that's good :)
<ScottL> ..
<ScottL> i've been working on the release notes:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
<ScottL> i encourage everyone to look over them and definitely fix what you absolutely know is wrong
<astraljava> ScottL: I suppose, but I couldn't see whether the bug that caused the latest re-spin is anywhere near. I wasn't prompted for codecs installation.
<astraljava> ScottL: On it.
<ScottL> i need to get away from the computer for a while, if there is concern about a part and a consensus can be achieved without me, please make the changes as well
<ScottL> some things i should note:
<ScottL> 1.  i really didn't think about the minimum requirements and more or less accepted the defaults on the wiki page
<ScottL> 2.  i noted that user should probably just resintall ubuntu studio if coming from 10.04 due to the extent of the changes
<ScottL> (we really haven't tested this upgrade and i'm guessing it will either break or be extremely bloated :P )
<ScottL> 3.  i didn't note any "known issues" at this point (although some defaults are there - don't get rid of them, they are pulled in from an <<include>>)
<ScottL>      if you remember any "known issues" please include them (i'm a bit frazzled currently and can't remember at this point)
<ScottL> there you go, be back later
<astraljava> ScottL: Yeah we didn't even have an upgrade test case, so upgrading definitely isn't supported.
<len-dt> astraljava, I think we include the good, bad and the ugly. The include box in ubuiquity is just for mp3. We could use the same variable for some other things too.
<len-dt> astraljava, we included everything to get the live dvd to work and because we didn't have time to replace the workflow chooser, etc with a ubiquity plugin.
<astraljava> $ grep gst *
<astraljava> desktop:The gstreamer0.10 packages we want to install:
<astraljava> desktop: * (gstreamer0.10-alsa)
<astraljava> desktop: * (gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-apps)
<astraljava> desktop: * (gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio)
<astraljava> I'm not seeing the bad ones.
<len-dt> I don't think it's gstreamer.
<len-dt>  I think its the av-extras
<astraljava> livavcodec-extra-53 is seeded.
<astraljava> Oh... but I suppose that depends on the actual codec used for the video. mp4 is just a container format, right?
<len-dt> And it pulls in about 5 other extras with it
<astraljava> Ok, well I should see it with this soon-to-be-finished Xubuntu install.
<len-dt> I thought mp4 was more standardised than avi but maybe not.
 * astraljava is clueless about these formats and codecs and whathaveyou.
 * len-dt is not much better
<len-dt> I know that avi is a container and can have an mp4 inside... but that may just mean taking what the mp4 contains and moving it to the avi...
<astraljava> ScottL: I did a few small fixes, nothing major. Please not, that when upgrading to a new stable release, no -d switch is needed for update-manager or do-release-upgrade.
<astraljava> note*
<len-dt> astraljava, what did you upgrade from?
<astraljava> len-dt: Nothing, if you're referring to above, that was about release notes.
<len-dt> Ahh. ok.
 * len-dt notices that #ubuntu-release has gotten very quiet.
<astraljava> Yep, they're up to something.
<astraljava> Hopefully just getting ready for celebration. :)
<len-dt> Something about 1200UTC...
<astraljava> Yep.
<len-dt> ScottL (and anyone else) I have been playing around with the xfce panel to see how close it can come to AWN. (I have AWN on this machine before I install release) and it comes pretty close.
<len-dt> The thing is both AWN and the xfce panel get pretty crowded if one tries to get all the functionality in it that the top panel now has.
<astraljava> Yeah, I hate that, and always add more panels.
<len-dt> The trick the the AWN icon does when it replaces the whole panel with it's own menu is nice, and if that was easy to do for other things it would work nice.
<astraljava> I'll read about it in a few weeks, I have no idea what it even looks like.
<astraljava> As the images are in final now, I can have a few hours of sleep before the working day starts.
<astraljava> See ya later!
<ScottL> len-dt, you can add multiple items to a launcher on the xfce panel
<len-dt> yes
<ScottL> the result is that you can stack related work flow items within a single dock icon that way
<ScottL> len-dt, what do you think of a "new user package"?  it might do several things like...
<ScottL> install docks with work flows
<len-dt> ScottL, the only problem is that the stack ends up with the icon of the first app. Unless a dummy app is made with it's own icon.
<ScottL> provide ardour templates
<ScottL> provide ardour patchbay settings
<len-dt> ScottL, You have me as a new user to try it on.
<ScottL> anything that might help a new user function, really...i'm tired and can't think of any other examles
<len-dt> I have an idea how things work, but not a good handle on putting it together.
<ScottL> len-dt, hehe, but i meant a user who isn't familiar with linux or ubuntu, for example
<ScottL> as well as what process is usually used
<ScottL> artistically speaking
<len-dt> ScottL, I'll ask my Yf.
<ScottL> what is a Yf?
<len-dt> Wife?
<ScottL> ohhhh, i get it :)
<len-dt> Much nicer than the older xyl
<ScottL> heh
<ScottL> allrighty, i'm tired and going to bed, goodnight everyone
<len-dt> Ta
<len-dt> me/ notices we have release images
 * len-dt is having finger trouble
<astraljava> Yep, they should be out by now.
<acmeinc1> Has anyone noticed the default (greybird) theme on Studio has a very very small frame. making it very difficult to resize from vertically in a xfce4-terminal window, plus many others?
<astraljava> acmeinc: Yes, known "issue". Use Alt + Right-click and then drag mouse, the window magically changes size.
<scott-work> i'm a little bummed by some of the bugs coming in :/
<scott-work> part of me wants to say "we don't even ship that stuff, we are you bothering me"
<scott-work> another part says "crap, this is something we didn't think to test/check/verify"
<scott-work> although we can take this as a learning curve and document some of these things to test in the future, though
<scott-work> acmeinc: also if you right click the header (or file -> resize ?) you can resize the window as well
<scott-work> if there is a simple setting to change (and maybe xubuntu / shimmer already has) we can update it
<astraljava> scott-work: For the window borders? I asked ochosi a while back, I thought that alt+right-click was a much easier way. :D
<astraljava> scott-work: And you get used to it quickly, and when you do, you don't wanna go back. :)
<scott-work> astraljava: oh!  are you saying that alt+right-click resizes the border around the window?
<scott-work> not the window itself?
<astraljava> scott-work: Yes.
<astraljava> Err...
<scott-work> sweeeet!
<scott-work> errrr
<astraljava> Oh sorry.
<scott-work> ah
<scott-work> hehe :P
<astraljava> No, not the border. But I thought the question was that the borders were so thin, it's hard to resize the window.
<astraljava> Which is the problem I had at first.
<astraljava> Doesn't bother me anymore.
<astraljava> That method is just way too sweet for resizing.
<astraljava> ARGH! I hate this friggin' Mac. Chrome won't open a .gz text file into a new tab, I need to download it. :-/
<astraljava> scott-work: Are there several bugs? I only spotted one so far.
<astraljava> Oh sorry, I misread.
<scott-work> astraljava: there were a few bugs:  plymouth-theme not updating, albatross theme text/background too similar, maybe something else
<scott-work> i expect more to come when others really start downloading
<scott-work> ..
<scott-work> this afternoon (in about 2.57 hours), i plan to send out emails announcing the release
<astraljava> For sure. I just didn't realize some of them were marked for us. Thought Xubuntu, as I get their bug mail as well.
<astraljava> That'd be great, thanks!
<astraljava> scott-work: Oh, you're _precise_! I'll check the mailing list at 18:58 UTC then.
<astraljava> err... 18:48 UTC, sorry. I'm not precise enough.
<scott-work> lol, astraljava
<scott-work> mainly i through out those times because i have a slighly bent sense of humour
<knome> hey scott-work, congrats for the US release too :)
<scott-work> knome: thank you :)
<scott-work> and congrats on xubuntu
<micahg> congrats to the Ubuntu Studio team!
<scott-work> i like the lightdm greeter them, i'll have to steal that from you ;)
<scott-work> thank you as well micahg, you were quite pivotal in the effort as well
<micahg> it would be great if Ubuntu Studio could grow its contributor base :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, I don't understand such humor one bit. Pun intended.
<scott-work> astraljava: hehe
<knome> thanks! :)
<astraljava> micahg: Thanks SO MUCH for your tireless efforts throughout the cycle!
<scott-work> micahg: i think it has already started and i believe the trend will continue
<astraljava> This extends to TheMuso of course, too.
<astraljava> The rest of us just slacked off, really. :)
<micahg> scott-work: this is good news, looking forward to reviewing dev applications later in Quantal or during the R cycle :)
<astraljava> micahg: Time permitting, I could think of doing that during the R cycle. :)
<astraljava> I have to practice lots during this now-starting one.
<micahg> sounds good
<astraljava> So bear with us for a while still, aye? :)
<micahg> astraljava: yeah, you can start with the Ubuntu Studio merges once quantal opens: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+localpackagediffs?field.name_filter=&field.package_type=non-ignored&field.package_type-empty-marker=1&field.packageset=132 
<micahg> astraljava: don't worry about the ones without Ubuntu changes, you should check with the person who touched it last before starting on something
<astraljava> micahg: Ok, sounds good. Thanks for the link!
<micahg> haha, there were none in the list :)
<astraljava> Hmm? Ok, maybe I just don't understand how to read it.
<scott-work> micahg: oh, you mean ubuntu developer?  i think i could do that :)
<astraljava> Ahh... ok, you meant if there was a newer package in quantal than in wheezy, right.
<micahg> astraljava: yes, with Ubuntu Changes, the autosync next week should take care of the rest
<astraljava> Gotcha.
<astraljava> scott-work: It'd be cool if we could train together. :)
<knome> what about bussing togehter?
<scott-work> astraljava: yes it would, i imagine it would make it easier as well
<astraljava> I want to start contributing to Debian, too. It'll support nicely.
<astraljava> knome: Shush. This is our land, you have no power here. :p
<knome> awwh.
<knome> i'll need to ask somebody to gimme more powers
<astraljava> Hehehe. I know a certain aussie who's easily bribed.
<knome> yeah.
<knome> but i don't know if *he* has the powers anymore.
<jussi> what do you want...
<scott-work> okay, i emailed linux outlaws, distrowatch, ubuntustudio users, ubuntu stduio devel, posted to G+ (both personal account and ubuntu studio account)
<scott-work> am i missing anywhere?
<jussi> but then, its probably not me you are talkign about :P
<knome> jussi, +F access to #ubuntustudio-devel so astraljava can't tell me i can't throw lousy jokes.
<jussi> oh
<knome> no, i don't really want that.
<knome> i'd want +F for #xubuntu-devel :(
<jussi> I no longer have that power, go bribe Pici, Alanbell, Topyli or funkyhat
<knome> the access list is sad
<knome> but that's offtopic.
<knome> at least in this channel anyway..
<jussi> scott-work: facebook
<jussi> scott-work: do you even have access to theFB account? 
<micahg> scott-work: you and astraljava might want to join pkg-multimedia-maintainers on alioth once you get some packaging experience (this way you can push changes into Debian and sync to Ubuntu, which is what quadrispro does in most cases)
<jussi> s/account/page/group etc
<knome> leave the facebook account unchanged. fb sucks.
<astraljava> micahg: I have already started that process, but left in the middle for some reason I forget now. I'll try to get it rolling again within the next couple of days.
<astraljava> Ok, the bickering by the gnomes and kiwis notwithstanding, I'm off for celebration beers now. Catch ya later. :)
<knome> hehe. have fun astraljava :)
<astraljava> knome: If you wanna join in, we're going to Rotterdam. /me doesn't wait for the obvious puns commencing...
<knome> hehe.
<knome> well, maybe not today. i have a feeling i've been out too much, and i might go tomorrow too...
<knome> and i have good beer at home too :)
<knome> but thanks for the offer :)
<scott-work> micahg: i believe i am a member of pkg-multimedia-maintainers already, quadrispro strongly "recommended" it
<scott-work> jussi: i don't have a facebook account
<micahg> scott-work: indeed you are ;)
<knome> scott-work, i suppose he was referring to a ubuntu studio one
<scott-work> yay!
<micahg> scott-work: are you subscribe to the mailing list as well?
<scott-work> knome: is there a ubuntustudio facebook account?  i don't think we own it
<scott-work> micahg: indeed, i am
<knome> scott-work, i don't know, but judging from jussi's comments, there probably is
<scott-work> although a majority of it goes to it's own folder, which i dutifuly delete from time to time :P
<knome> hehe
<micahg> scott-work: great, the only thing is Debian uses git instead of bzr, so it's another workflow to learn
<scott-work> i really should read more in there but the volume is quite large
<micahg> or you can use bzr-git
<jussi> I am the main admin on it...
<jussi> scott-work: you dont seem very up on the FB stuff, is there someone else that wants to volunteer to do it ?
<jussi> http://www.facebook.com/Ubuntustudio
<scott-work> jussi: sorry to be picky, is it possible to change this to http://www.facebook.com/UbuntuStudio ?
<jussi> scott-work: it doesnt matter... 
<jussi> you can use facebook.com/UBUNTUSTUDIO if you like
<jussi> anyways, bed tme now
<scott-work> should i also post something at reddit?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-04-27
<scott-upstairs> knome, do you know which email address was used to email distrowatch?
<scott-upstairs> i seem to recall theone i used before (and used today) might not have worked
<knome> no idea
 * knome has had "too many"
<scott-upstairs> hehe, i haven't drank any alcohol for over five years
<scott-upstairs> seems kinda strange considering how much i used to drink
<knome> mmh
 * knome is more drunk than ever
<knome> at least, as far i can remember
<knome> i've definitely been "more drunk"
<knome> scott-upstairs, so did the release-day go well for ubuntu studio ?
<scott-upstairs> knome, i guess so, i'm still tidying up some stuff and also trying to change the current website to mention the release and new website coming soon
<knome> hehe :)
<knome> that's going to be a battle...
<scott-upstairs> knome, which part will be a battle, adjusting the current site to mention release and new website?  or the new website?
<scott-upstairs> brb, fixing kids dinner
<knome> adjusting the curent site to mention release ;)
<scott-upstairs> knome, i'm hoping i can create a new page and then set it to the "home" page
<knome> scott-upstairs, i'm too drunk to handle *drupal*, sorry... :D
<knome> scott-upstairs, wordpress would *barely* go..
<scott-upstairs> knome, hehehe, it's okay
<scott-upstairs> i am getting much better at wordpress though
<scott-upstairs> i have set up my own server and have begun exploring fairly pervasively
<knome> eyah
<knome> *yeah
<knome> it's much easier on the admin side too, than drupal
<knome> ochosi just praised it :)
<scott-upstairs> just praised drupal?
<knome> no, wordpress :D
<knome> and its admin interface
<knome> (for xubuntu.org)
<scott-upstairs> knome, i freely admit that xubuntu is certainly a model of functionality that we wish to emulate :)
<knome> scott-upstairs, well, it's good to hear that - at least we've done something right...
<knome> scott-upstairs, @XubuntuLinux has now 640+ followers, three days ago a bit more than 500 :)
<scott-upstairs> very cool!
<knome> yeah!
<knome> over 20% increase
<scott-upstairs> this just reminds me that i need to do a twitter and facebook account for these things
<knome> mmh
<knome> pleia2 registered the twitter account for xubuntu - i'm just tweeting
<knome> pleia2 <3
<knome> :)
<scott-upstairs> i wonder how hard it was to register the account on twitter
<scott-upstairs> this weekend i'm going to register some stuff on facebook and twitter
<scott-upstairs> i'll probalby have to do soemthing stupid like "TheRealScottLavender" or "ScottLavender2012" 
<knome> scott-upstairs, not too much.... :)
<knome> scott-upstairs, rather register UbuntuStudio, that'll (unfortunately) get way more followers
<knome> at least in twitter
<knome> probably true fore fb too
<knome> *for
<scott-upstairs> okay, i think i'm done for right now on the website
<scott-upstairs> holstein, http://ubuntustudio.org
<holstein> its a step
<holstein> scott-upstairs: thanks
<scott-upstairs> please let me know what people think about this, it's temporary until i get the other website sorted and pushed to rt (which should be before UDS)
<holstein> the other is sorted, right?
<holstein> i say we push what we got
<scott-upstairs> holstein or anyone, if you want different wording left me know
<holstein> content wise
<holstein> just put *somthing* else up
<scott-upstairs> if i told them "go", it wouldn't happen for a week or so
<scott-upstairs> so i'm going to use that week to make changes and finish it
<holstein> sure.. i guess what im saying is, say go
<holstein> hit the button...
<scott-upstairs> i know
<holstein> i also dont think it would be bad to just redirect the URL
<ScottL> which url?
<holstein> ubuntustudio.org
<holstein> hop it over to a wiki page or whatever
<ScottL> i don't even know who has authorization to make the dns redirect it
<holstein> ScottL: what you got is good i think
<holstein> temporarily
<ScottL> agreed, it is a temporary step
<holstein> im just sad about the timeline
<ScottL> now that i've cleared most of my tasks (although i still need to do a few things this weekend) i will finish the other website and file the rt ticket before i go to UDS
<scott-work> yay!  ubuntu studio 12.04 LTS release is mentioned on distrowatch :)
<astraljava> Cool. :)
<scott-work> i've been documenting things like this (the public relations things) and others, i hope get some things organized in the wiki soon
<scott-work> kinda like a "playbook" for studio work
<scott-work> one of my personal goals is to plan for longevity of the project when i am not lead
<scott-work> and this goes along with that
<scott-work> i should note that my vision of where ubuntu studio should go will require another 1.59 years, so it is not my intent to leave anytime soon :P
<astraljava> Ok, expecting to find a new leader a month into the T cycle, then. Got it.
<scott-work> lol
<knome> scott-work, ever thought of registering a LP group for bugs?
<knome> scott-work, like xubuntu-bugs
<astraljava> There are no bugs in Ubuntu Studio code. Only well-thought-out features.
<knome> :P
<knome> that's why i'm getting so much mail then, i suppose...
<knome> astraljava, i need to get back to you with an idea later this weekend, remind me if i haven't done that on sunday
<astraljava> knome: I won't be online much before Tuesday, if then even. And on Wednesday I'm off to Tallinn, where I'm going to be online even less for a little over a week. So consider me gone for two weeks from now on.
<scott-work> knome: no, i had not considered it, but that sounds like a very good idea, could reduce the email for many, many people
<knome> astraljava, oh well, i can email
<astraljava> scott-work: Just as long as some people still get them. :)
<scott-work> astraljava: oh yeah, defintely
<scott-work> micahg: would it be too presumptuous to start and submit a dev application now?
<holstein> scott-work: theres a great example in #ardour right now
<holstein> 11:13 < las> pinqvin: it will not be possible to debug this with the Ubuntu-provided version of Ardour
<scott-work> holstein: example of what?
<holstein> 11:14 < las> pinqvin: if you would like help, you should start by getting Ardour 2.8.12 from ardour.org and not from Ubuntu -  they have a history of messing up the operation of the program
<holstein> scott-work: i had spoken to you about this in the past
<scott-work> i know las is pretty bitter about our version of ardour, but i don't understand the difference
<holstein> the FUD in ardour
<holstein> and other places
<holstein> i would like to work on that difference
<holstein> address it at some point
<holstein> if we are breaking it, then id like to stop
<holstein> if not, id like for him to stop
<holstein> either way, this BS is just that.. BS
<scott-work> i also wonder if the delta is created in ubuntu....or is it debian?
<holstein> scott-work: these are good questions
<holstein> im just sick of that
<scott-work> and quite frankly, i know las is _particular_ and maybe the change greatly upsets him, but in reality is not very critical
<holstein> you mention ubuntustudio in that channel and its flames
<holstein> and thats one of the best supported apps in FOSS
<holstein> to have that negativity in the channel and forums for ardour sux
<scott-work> i think i'll try to engage him after he helps the guy and talk about what he's saying
<holstein> scott-work: ive been planning a PM with him
<holstein> i just havent had time.. and im not ready yet :)
<scott-work> i don't think other applciation authors go into their channels and bash a distro because of the version of libraries used
<scott-work> but i would like to find a path forward that would work for debian, ubuntu, and las
<holstein> totally
<scott-work> see, las keeps mentioning possibilities
<scott-work> i might be mainly that he's upset anyone is building it
<holstein> i just want him to either help, or STFU
<holstein> i have nothing but respect for the guy.. and i think he's awesome, obvioulsy
<holstein> but, he leads the buntu flaming in that channel... and im over it
<holstein> we need to turn around the thinking
<holstein> we are an easy to use, professional OS
<holstein> not some repackaged crap that no professional would touch
<holstein> and if we are not, i want to move that way
<scott-work> hehe, i agree
<scott-work> interesting, las has not responded yet
<holstein> yup
<holstein> it'll take a while i think
<ailo> astraljava: Have you heard anymore about -lowlatency maintenance?
<ailo> I was waiting until the release was out before picking it up again
<scott-work> ailo: there are a few items that are lined out already to be done
<scott-work> the first would be to figure out where to host the code so that it is accessible to everyone
<scott-work> i.e. github or similar would probably be good
<scott-work> but since we need to make lowlatency a "derivative" of the ubuntu kernel i thought getting their input or blessing woudl be helpful as well
<scott-work> i was hoping to speak to apw or steve conklin or someone with UKT at UDS about this
<scott-work> sometimes it's easy to get an answer in person ;)
<ailo> I think the first thing we should do is to document how TheMuso maintains the source, and start from there
<ailo> Hosting the source at github is no problem
<ailo> Or, if TheMuso doesn't mind maintaining the source for longer, we need to get ourselves educated on kernel maintenance enough to be able to do everything from scratch ourselves
<ailo> My goal would be to make as little changes to the -generic tree as possible
<ailo> As simple as possible is the best way to do it
<ailo> TheMuso made a short list of commands on how to maintain the source tree, but there was a problem with conflicts last time
<ailo> In the long run, we do need to fully document the whole procedure from scratch of course
<astraljava> scott-work: Why do you think it needs to be in github? Wouldn't LP make more sense?
<scott-work> +infinity "In the long run, we do need to fully document the whole procedure from scratch of course"
<scott-work> astraljava: i'm not sure why launchpad isn't used, but i think it might be because the kernel is in git as well
<scott-work> and i'm sure there are reasons for that
<astraljava> scott-work: Oh yeah. Well, what about where Luke keeps his tree, then?
<astraljava> Can it be team-managed?
<scott-work> astraljava: i don't know where luke keeps his but i've been told only he has access to it
<scott-work> astraljava:  one of the main tenets people keep repeating is that it should be accessible to several people in order to maintain it, so the long answer is yes :)
<astraljava> scott-work: It's at kernel.ubuntu.com/git
<astraljava> scott-work: No, I meant can that tree there ^^ be team-managed. Obviously our tree needs to be.
<astraljava> It seems to host the mainline git trees as well, so I suppose it can.
<scott-work> astraljava: i haven't a clue about the trees being team-managed
<astraljava> scott-work: Well basically, every distributed revision control system are, if there are no access control mechanisms in place. The question in this one is, can those be controlled by LP teams?
<scott-work> astraljava: i don't know, maybe the kernel team might have some insight (since they are on launchpad and using git as well)
<ailo> I've been reading about kernel maintenance at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev, but most things are pretty scetchy there. I'm going to read this next (particularly about how the source is patched with debian stuff, and the scripts involved) http://kernel-handbook.alioth.debian.org/index.html#contents
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, I was really kinda thinking out loud here.
<astraljava> scott-work: I'm going to be very scarcely online for the next two weeks. If you have something important, you know my email addresses. Please use them as primary method of getting in touch.
<ailo> scott-work: The whole procedure is just a few commands, but knowing which, and why is a different matter
<scott-work> ailo:  i was hoping to get a brain dump from themuso and alessio once we get the git hosting and other things established
<scott-work> astraljava: ack'd
<ailo> scott-work: I've been using gitorious and I also have a github account, so I know how to use those, as well as having about a years experience with git
<ailo> So, I could set up the whole thing at github
<ailo> scott-work: Do you have a github account?
<scott-work> ailo: before we go headlong into this can we first ask someone with UKT if we use github would it prove problematic when setting up lowlatency as a derivative (something to do with their processes and automating udpating) of the main ubuntu kernel
<scott-work> ?
<scott-work> ailo: no, not yet
<astraljava> ailo: Please hold off though until we figure out the access control issue.
<astraljava> Heh, yeah.
<astraljava> That, too.
<ailo> scott-work: I believe the only thing we need to worry about is making sure the source is ok, and that whoever is doing the uploading can pull from our git tree.
<ailo> Who was it that suggested github anyway?
<ailo> alessio was keeping his source along with all the other ubuntu kernel sources
<ailo> As is TheMuso right now
<ailo> By uploading I of course meant whoever uploads the source to the Ubuntu repo, which we cannot do
<ailo> The package repo, that is
<ailo> Well, I'll try to create my own -lowlatency from scratch for educational purposes and see how that compares to the existing one. But now, bedtime..
<scott-work> ailo:  i don't really remember who suggested github
<scott-work> good night ai.lo, sorry about pinging you right then :P
 * scott-work didn't read all backscroll before replying
<len-dt> I hate my nvidia card. 1000s of lines of :Apr 27 08:28:30 music1204 kernel: [226939.249488] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: validate vram_list
<len-dt> Apr 27 08:28:30 music1204 kernel: [226939.249495] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: validate: -12
<len-dt> Apr 27 08:28:30 music1204 kernel: [226939.249573] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: fail ttm_validate
<len-dt> Over and over.
<len-dt> I would guess (by the time) one of the kids was playing a web video game.
<len-dt> Nope, maybe not...
<len-dt> Screen saver trouble.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-04-28
<Len-nb> acmeinc, It turns out my Yf's netbook has BT. I am just putting ubuntu DVD in. When I am done, I will try stuff with the US live session.
<Len-nb> acmeinc, BTW, the BT stuff in ubuntu for desktops does work.
<Len-nb> I was able to connect to a phone and see the pictures on it anyway.
<acmeinc> len: Yea, when i loaded xubuntu 12.04, the bluetooth applet was there, BUT, my it couldn't find an adapter.  What is more odd, the applet goes away after I remove the dongle.  So, it recognizes the dongle as a bluetooth adapter (which is why the applet is there in the first place), but it isn't able to recognize it at the same time.   Command line arguements fail as well.  It seems like the support for my specific dongle may have gone away in t
<len-dt> acmeinc, Ouch!
<len-dt> I would report that as a bug
<len-dt> Anything that worked in one version and stops ... sounds like a kernel module problem
<acmeinc> will do, but im working on another issue, my kernel freezing issue, which i believe may be due to a recent mobo upgrade, and not ubuntu itself.  even when i went back to 10.04 and 11.04, i encountered freezing almost regularly (5-10 times per day), also causing RAID degradation everytime :(  I'm rma'ing the board, and getting a new, different model.  what happened to gigabyte?  grrr
<len-dt> acmeinc, So maybe a MB/usb thing then too.
<len-dt> acmeinc, I found the order of my PCI cards made a difference to my stability as well.
<acmeinc> perhaps...we'll find out midweek when i get my new board...i may try studio 12.04 at work (i am here now), to see how a older known stable machine works.  coming soon :)
<acmeinc> len: could you comment further on order of pci cards?  I
<acmeinc> only have one, but would moving between the 1st or 2nd x16 slot make a diff?  Its ATI, with restricted drivers, which again, may be add to instability
<len-dt> acmeinc, I have more than one sound card plus an ethernet card.
<len-dt> I noticed that the ethernet card was sharing an int with my usb, but also that it was the highest irq (32). So I got xruns during downloads.
<len-dt> I have a Delta66 sound card (4 track) as well as an ensonic that I use only for the midi ports. The ensonic  was at a higher irq than the D66. This turned out to be bad too.
<acmeinc> ok, so i don't think that would effect me, but good to know
<len-dt> Different MB are set up in different ways.
<len-dt> I was having problems with system lock up before too. But I think that may have been the video card which is an old tnt2
<len-dt> When the screen saver kicks in and is set to anything other than blank, I get hundreds of errors to syslog every second
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-04-29
<ailo> Len-nb: I'm trying to change IRQ for my pci devices, but nothing happens
<ailo> I find that there's a lot to learn about IRQ on my account, as I'm reading more about it
<ailo> What are they exactly, and how does the kernel handle them
<ailo> So, I'm unable to reproduce your config right now
<ailo> I mean, I'm unable to reproduce your problem with xruns
<ailo> Len-nb: When you changed the order between your audio device and your eth card, you did that in the bios, right?
<ailo> You'll be sleeping now, but just let me know when you read this :)
<ailo> Anybody notice how flash just changed?
<ailo> Everythings handled by the totem plugin, only not everything works anymore
<ailo> Len-nb: Well, on this machine, the only way to achieve the same type of situation with the irq's was having the pci cards placed in a certain order to have my wifi be ahead of my audio card. But, with this machine, that seems to have improved performance for me, cause now my audio device is not sharing irq with anything else
<ailo> I will have to test on other machines. Also, do we know for sure that the order of the IRQ's matter?
<ailo> I know there are two kinds of interrupts. Short and long ones. The short ones will interrupt everything else and spit out it's full message, while long ones will push out their message in parets
<ailo> parts*
<ailo> I'm not getting any xruns either way
<ailo> I was getting xruns because of pulseaudio though
<ailo> So, I'm not using the jack bridge
<Len-nb> ailo, irq setup is somewhat hardware dependant. there has been a standard chip that has been used since the original ibm pc.
<Len-nb> the pc had 8 irqs and then shortly after they found that was not enough and so used two of the same chip.
<Len-nb> then someone made another chip that can handle up to 256 irqs, but it handles things the same way and they only use 24 of them.
<Len-nb> In any case, if there are more than one interrupt the highest number interrupt blocks lower numbers untill the cpu resets it.
<Len-nb> This is a physical thing.
<Len-nb> Huh, he's gone
<Len-nb> ailo, did you see anything i said?
<ailo> Len-nb: Ok, but did you change your irq's using the bios, or you just switched places with your pci cards?
<ailo> For me changing irq's in the bios has had no effect
<ailo> I will need to see with other machines, if it's the same thing
<Len-nb> ailo, on my MB I had to change the card position PCIe is different again
<Len-nb> I think it is all done by central chip
<Len-nb> I can "reserve" an irq with bios, but not set it for a card.
<ailo> I have an old ASUS board on which I remember being able to change IRQ for a bunch of devices. Will try today to see what that does
<Len-nb> Mine is a one bit or something like that.
<Len-nb> The other odd thing is that the bios shows irqs at boot, but they are different from what linux says they are.
<ailo> I have a dim recollection of Linux preparing its own irq
<ailo> In which case, the bios has no effect
<ailo> Len-nb: Do you have problems with flash-player?
<ailo> I'm a bit annoyed by suddenly having totem handling flash. It doesn't do it very well
<Len-nb> My wife seems to have had problems... more so with firefox than chromium
<ailo> Firefox and chromium behaves a bit differently, but they are both using a totem plugin instead of flash
<ailo> I wasn't able to change that in the browser itself
<Len-nb> Hmm.
<ailo> It claims to be using flash, but it's not
<Len-nb> It is true that when I installed there was no flash DL.
<ailo> youtube works fine, but any autoplay flash does not autoplay, and stuff that requires a more recent flash does not work. Just like it is using gnash
<Len-nb> The thing to do is find a page that uses a part of flash that totom doesn't handle. Then it should download the real one.
<ailo> I have flash installed
<ailo> This is not a flash problem
<ailo> It's a Ubuntu problem
<Len-nb> Surprise!
<ailo> This happened after I updated last
<ailo> I double checked to see if Wheezy was suffering from the same thing. It's gotta be some kind of config somehwere that is new to Ubuntu
<Len-nb> Ubunu
<Len-nb> toops ubuntu is trying to be all free lic.
<ailo> I don't think so. Debian is, by making it possible to install a kernel without non-free firmware
<ailo> Ubuntu is not doing that to my knowledge
<ailo> Flash is pain in the but
<Len-nb> ubuntu tries to make it's ISOs all free lic., but offer the non-free in repo.
<ailo> The kernel itself is non-free, so I still don't think so
<Len-nb> Esp. for anything that might be illegal in some country
<ailo> Also, I had flash working for months. This happened after the final release
<ailo> Anyway, I've been trying to find anyone else complaining about it. That is why I'm asking
<Len-nb> While I was watching #ubuntu-release they had a list of thing to release post 12.04
<Len-nb> I did notice when we first went live dvd that a lot of flash stuff worked right out of the box, but the "you need to install flash" prompt still came up.
<Len-nb> Maybe they have "fixed" that.
<Len-nb> anyway, I have to go. by now.
<ailo> Does someone have 4+ GB RAM? Would be good to see if the -lowlatency pae is a pae, or if the -generic pae is a pae
<micahg> umm, both are PAE kernels?
<ailo> micahg: According to Ralph on the mail list he's not able to locate all of his memory
<micahg> ailo: what's the subect/
<micahg> *subject
<ailo> micahg: "no audio output using Precise due to Pulseaudio?"
<ailo> He just mentions this in one of his replies
<micahg> an upgrade from oneiric won't switch to the PAE kernel, the user has to do that
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-04-22
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: OK OK I will remove itP
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, thanks buddy :)
<zequence> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ubuntu
<smartboyhw> zequence, what's the Ubuntu link for?:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, I found it extremely worrying that Dream Studio is ahead of us in DistroWatch :(
<zequence> smartboyhw: Distrowatch is not a good way to measure OS popularity. People do massclicking
<DarkEra> yep, true
<zequence> DarkEra: Have you done any more temp testing?
<DarkEra> zequence, i kept a eye on it, everything seems fine since the last two days
<DarkEra> don't have much time at the moment, gotta go in a few :)
<zequence> DarkEra: Ok. Was just curious if there had been any change
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, zequence the RC milestone is created on the ISO Tracker
<smartboyhw> However it currently only contains the Netboot ISOs:P
<DarkEra> zequence, when i get back i'll wipe the third partition and install the latest current iso for testing and will keep a eye on the temp there too
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, ah cool
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, :)
<DarkEra> hi all
<smartboyhw> Hi DarkEra 
<DarkEra> heya smartboyhw hows it going buddy?
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, good
<DarkEra> cool :)
<zequence> 150km on the bicycle today :P
<zequence> 5 1/2 hours
<Len-nb> zequence, good stuff. I walked about 20k today ;)
<Len-nb> 3.5 hours or so.
<Len-nb> I should measure how long my walk is some day
<Len-nb> We have stopped rolling ISOs ... good.
<DarkEra> Len-nb, we did? so the current of the 21th was the last iso and needs further testing
<DarkEra> sorry, dropped out
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-04-23
<Len-nb> I haven't found any problems with the 32 bit ISO.
<Len-nb> Have to put results in the daily tracker because there has been no no respin since RC.
<zequence> I need to do a bit of testing too. Getting close now. Only two days left
<smartboyhw> Great, another announcement to send!
<smartboyhw> The RC images is now in the ISO QA Tracker
<smartboyhw> zequence, ^
* smartboyhw changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Ubuntu Studio 12.04.2 LTS is released: ISO- http://goo.gl/FEAxP Notes-http://goo.gl/29QaS | Please test the 13.04 RC images in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current | Release status in http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/2bq42lItlT
<smartboyhw> To let everyone know:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, how do you think about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/UbuntuStudio ?
<smartboyhw> That will be the release notes page.
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, start testing!!!!!!!!!
<smartboyhw> LOL
<smartboyhw> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/269/builds
<smartboyhw> The builds are here
 * smartboyhw points the above link to Len-nb too
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, let me wake up first :P
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, LOL (sorry);p
<DarkEra> :D
<DarkEra> it's the final is guess that needs testing
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, yep yep
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, I do expect at least 1-2 respins.
<DarkEra> oh, we have another one is see
<DarkEra> ok
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, that's the official RC milestone
<smartboyhw> So the ISO in that link can possibly become the release image.
<DarkEra> ah yes, cool :)
<DarkEra> downloading
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, next time use zsync
<smartboyhw> zsync is an extremely useful too
<smartboyhw> s/too/tool/
<kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "zsync is an extremely useful tool"
<smartboyhw> So you don't need to download the whole ISO.
 * DarkEra facepalms
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, thanks for the headsup
<DarkEra> :)
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, :)
<DarkEra> didn't think about that at all
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, in the directory where you placed the old ISO  type "zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/raring-dvd-amd64.iso.zsync"
<DarkEra> that'll be for the next time because i don't have the old iso anymore... lol
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, :O
<smartboyhw> Keep it:)
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, i will now
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, :)
<DarkEra> by the way, if you guys post something on the site, may it be news, releasenotes or something else, is it checked by others before it's posted?
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, BTW 've a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/UbuntuStudio please:P
<smartboyhw> That's the draft for 13.04 final releasenotes
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, normally I attain approval from zequence 
<DarkEra> ok, got ya :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, I will go and add the hashes in the main website for 12.04.2
<smartboyhw> Will not add 12.10 since it's two DAYS from 13.04
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, supercollider and faust are not as default in 13.04, lmms is
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, eh!?
 * smartboyhw thinks zequence gave him that default list
<DarkEra> i checked through synaptic
<smartboyhw> Damn it:P
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, any more inconsistencies? i have edited the release notes page for that
<DarkEra> checking and reading :)
<DarkEra> one other thing i would change are the notes on the top, it's ok to say it's a non-lts release but i personally would leave out the "Not suitable" part because it applies more to beta/rc releases. Check that with zequence though, i'm just sharing my thoughts :)
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, recommended?:P
<DarkEra> the whole stuff under "Note: this is a non-LTS release"
 * DarkEra runs
<smartboyhw> !?
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, compare: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
<DarkEra> :)
<zequence> smartboyhw: I don't agree with the non LTS lines
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
 * smartboyhw removes!
<DarkEra> brb, need food
<DarkEra> heya zequence 
<zequence> smartboyhw: The only thing that is really important for users to understand IMO is that it will only be supported for 9 months
<smartboyhw> zequence, done removing:)
<zequence> DarkEra: Hi
<smartboyhw> zequence, I did write that down in the support section
<zequence> smartboyhw: Ok, good
<zequence> I think we should make a point out of this when we announce it
<smartboyhw> zequence, any more problems with the release notes then?
<zequence> smartboyhw: I'll write a separate announce post for the final release, just so you knoqw
<smartboyhw> zequence, \o/
 * smartboyhw likes that:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: I'm doing a bit of editing. Biggest one is removing the bug about headers
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<DarkEra> that looks better, great work guys
<zequence> I also removed the lines about the photography and publishing metas
<smartboyhw> zequence, check
<smartboyhw> :)
<zequence> smartboyhw: Ok. I also added a link for reading more about IRC at the bottom. Looks good to otherwise
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<smartboyhw> \o/
<smartboyhw> zequence, I will now copy to ubuntustudio.org with a draft
<smartboyhw> zequence, for the hashes do we want MD5 or SHA-1?
<zequence> I don't have a opinion about that actually. Is there any benefits with one over the other?
<smartboyhw> zequence, dunno
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, any experience in that?
<smartboyhw> zequence, let me check what Ubuntu uses
<smartboyhw> zequence, checked: It's MD5SUM for the official UbuntuHashes page
<DarkEra> yep, md5sum
<zequence> "The underlying MD5 algorithm is no longer deemed secure, thus while md5sum is well-suited for identifying known files in situations that are not security related, it should not be relied on if there is a chance that files have been purposefully and maliciously tampered. In the latter case, the use of a newer hashing tool such as sha256sum is highly recommended"
<zequence> From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5sum
<smartboyhw> zequence, but Ubuntu still uses it...
<zequence> Yes, but it seems sha1sum is more secure
<zequence> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sha1sum
<zequence> It's used for git, among other things
 * smartboyhw thinks we could've started a debate in this:P
<zequence> I'm going to try the different methods to see the practical differences
<zequence> beforehand, sha256 seems like the most secure, even if that might be overkill for us. Let's see
<DarkEra> bbl, got some things to do
<zequence> smartboyhw: I'll take care of the download page. I'll change it for the release.
<zequence> smartboyhw: Or, if you really want to..
<zequence> We meed to add a section for how to check the ISO once it's downloaded
<zequence> my zsync got stuck
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<smartboyhw> zequence, :IO
<smartboyhw> zequence, stuck in where/
<smartboyhw> s///?/
<kubotu> smartboyhw: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
<smartboyhw> LOl
<zequence> SHA256 seems to work ok. Didn't take long
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<smartboyhw> Use SHA256 then
 * smartboyhw hates looking at that LONG string of SHA256
<zequence> smartboyhw: Use diff
<smartboyhw> zequence, I know:P
<zequence> I've hardly read mail for a few days. I'm working on filtering it with imapfilter, but I've never use LUA before, which is what you use to script the filtering
<zequence> Should work with any IMAP based mail account, so I'll probably add something to the wiki about how to filter large email subscriptions easily
<smartboyhw> zequence, spams?:P
<zequence> email services usually already have spam filters
<zequence> This will mark things read that come from specific sources, and did not contain keywords
<smartboyhw> zequence, don't subscribe to too many mailing lists:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: That is not an option, if you want to know what is going on in the world
<smartboyhw> zequence, I mean "too many"
<smartboyhw> Not "many"
<zequence> I will probably subscribe to more, once I have this easy filtering in place
<zequence> One thing related to PR is being on top of what is going on on the web. So far, I've only started using some google alerts, but there must be other ways too
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
 * smartboyhw likes OMG! Ubuntu and WebUpd8 a lot:P
<zequence> maybe command line based web searching, with a memory of pages that has been found before, and possibly sending notices by email
<zequence> based on keywords
<zequence> sort of like google alerts, but also finding old results, so first hits would probably be huge
<zequence> Found this on G+ when searching for "Ubuntu Studio" https://plus.google.com/communities/104372631743405201291/stream/9cad0868-396b-4183-8c43-dd398325ff5f
<smartboyhw> zequence, whoa nice community
<zequence> He uses something called hugin
<zequence> hugin would add at least 40-50MB. From what it seems it's mostly used for creating panorama pics
<zequence> Quite a useful tool for the photography workflow, I would imagine
<zequence> So, this is the kind of thing you could learn. But, also, you can find people who are doing interesting things. You could contact them for learning more about what they do. You could interview them, and post the interview on our sites
<zequence> By using the technological tools we have available, since Ubuntu Studio is not exactly headline news, we can find information regarding Ubuntu Studio, and spread it throughout the community
<zequence> Both towards developers, as well as users
<smartboyhw> zequence, +1
<smartboyhw> Hello len-1304 :)
<len-1304> hello
<DarkEra> hi madeinkobaia 
<smartboyhw> Hey madeinkobaia :)
<madeinkobaia> Hi all :)
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, how's the release banner?;P
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : I think it will be very simple finally, a round sticker with "13.04 available now !" I removed the "release" in sentence. 
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, sure do:)
<smartboyhw> zequence, ^
<DarkEra> don't make me curious :D
<madeinkobaia> darkera : Hope not :D
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw :  Note that its a "multipurpose" banner, as it the same on FB and G+, I just need to find the right place who works on both. No big deal anyway ^^
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, :)
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, expect resync of image, respin soon
<smartboyhw> Due to Bug 1080701, IIRC
<ubottu> bug 1080701 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "After 'Preparing to install Ubuntu' screen, raring installation hangs" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1080701
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, ok thanks. I'll wait with testing the current one then i think
<smartboyhw> They only got in that fix just now:P
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, I have an idea:
<smartboyhw> Go to iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<smartboyhw> And select "Raring Final" then "Ubuntu Studio DVD amd64"
<smartboyhw> There is a good option that makes you know when new (non-daily testing) builds are out
<smartboyhw> Tick all the options and press "Subscribe":)
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, many thanks buddy. i'll look into that right away :)
<DarkEra> error.... gonna try again later
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, :)
<smartboyhw> Hey ttoine!
<ttoine> hello guys !
<ttoine> I am affraid to say guys... it means no girl...
<smartboyhw> lol
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: zsync time, the images are built.
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, yay!! \o/
<DarkEra> blog is updated by the way
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: But expect another respin soon I think (damn)
<smartboyhw> (slangasek) cjwatson, xnox, stgraber: so there have been a number of reports coming in here at the end about the "remove the media and hit enter" message not showing up in raring.  I'm pretty sure nothing's changed in plymouth; maybe something has changed elsewhere to regress the special-case handling of getting the necessary files all loaded before unmounting? (bug #1171792, bug #1170421)
<ubottu> bug 1171792 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "message to remove external drive and press ENTER is hidden" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1171792
<ubottu> bug 1170421 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Live session shutdown "hangs" (not showing "Please remove media ..." message)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170421
<smartboyhw> .................
<smartboyhw> Dunno it might have been like that since Precise:O
<DarkEra> that's ubuntu related, ubuntu studio showed that line and shut down from live session on my end
<DarkEra> i guess
<smartboyhw> DarkEra:Oh great. It seems some people doesn't while some people do.
<DarkEra> could be :)
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, well, i haven't seen a respin yet so i guess we're all clear to test... ?
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: It has been respun...
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, 20130423.1 is the latest i have through zync. Is there another one coming up then?
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: probably not.
<DarkEra> ah ok, cool :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-04-24
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: Hurray expect a respin in the next 24 hours, Kubuntu has a encrpytion password matching bugfix to go in.
<smartboyhw> Maybe no, but just a warning;P
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, i think when it's related to Kubuntu only and the ubuntu studio iso's are ok, it doesn't affect us
<DarkEra> i could be mistaken though
<zequence> I hate tutorials/manuals/references that are written as if the person reading it should already know what it is instructing
<zequence> After much work, I'm finally doing some filtering with imapfilter using the lua scripting language
<madeinkobaia> zequence : Congrats : )
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Thanks
<madeinkobaia> I just finished a study work on Ubuntu Studio : http://sta.sh/015tu875d4ft
<zequence> Aside from creating a personal filtering system, I also want to create something easy for other developers to set up in order to track massive amounts of mail coming from different mail lists
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Looks nice
<madeinkobaia> Its kind of mix of many things, a graphical improvisation. Nothing official, now we could do something.
<madeinkobaia> What do you think of the slogan ?
<zequence> "Sound & Vision"? It's stylish. Resembles a brand more than a slogan perhaps. 
<zequence> The coloring is nice though
<zequence> From white to blue, and since they are two different subjects, it's also symbolic
<madeinkobaia> Thanks for the feedback. (btw Its a Bowie album too)
<zequence> Right. Must be from where I get some vibes :)
<madeinkobaia> For sure. I searched on gog, there are no notable brands using that sentence. First I started on "Audio, Video, Graphics", but its was a little bit long so I switched on that.
<zequence> When using it in context with Ubuntu Studio, it feels like it suits best in a poetic fashion. Like, a made up brand name. If you add the text to the picture, it becomes an expansion of the graphics
<zequence> The more weight on "Sound & Vision", the more towards the poetic, IMO
<zequence> I was just thinking about what if we would use our own codenames
<zequence> Or, additional code names. 
<zequence> But, it would just be confusing, I think. At least, not very helpful anyway
<madeinkobaia> Those kind of questions are important and needs reflexion. The concept is open. Now graphical studys are a good way for exploring new ideas.
<madeinkobaia> I ask my self if I will expose it on deviantart for celebrate the release out. As "non official" advertising of course. Now it is hidden, its just on my personal storage place on dA (dA = deviantart).
<zequence> I don't see any other reason not to publish personal stuff. 
<zequence> I mean, I don't see any reason not to publish personal stuff
<zequence> Reading through my inbox, which now holds all the mail from 1st of January. 79 mail lists so far (not all of them are actual mail lists)
<madeinkobaia> Ok
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I even think it would be nice to showcase stuff on our website
<zequence> Anything that was done with Ubuntu Studio could be posted as "news"
<madeinkobaia> For sure, could be great. 
<zequence> And one could keep a gallery of stuff too
<madeinkobaia> It was done on Gimp at 100% 
<madeinkobaia> Even the text part (I was patient :D )
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Did you smudge the text? I don't know how to make it smooth myself, so I generally use Inkscape for doing text
<madeinkobaia> zequence : smudge, you mean blur ?
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Yeah :)
<madeinkobaia> Oh its really easy, you enter the text with the text tool (who unfortunately really needs to be improve) then you select your layer and in
<madeinkobaia> ..filter, then "blur", then Gaussian blur and you enter a blur between 0,1 and 0,9, the result will really smooth
<madeinkobaia> I translate from French, but I think its ok
<zequence> I've experimented with that, but if you want sharp text with smooth lines, I find it hard to do with Gimp. The text looks very uneven
<zequence> Something about it being drawn seems so fundamentally different to how it happens in Inkscape
<madeinkobaia> Uneven ? Normally there is no problem, I done like that.
<madeinkobaia> Inkscape works vectorial, so its really more powerfull for work on text
<madeinkobaia> On Gimp when you apply a filter you're text layer is automatically swtich on Bitmap. That's really a problem : (
<madeinkobaia> That means that every effetyou will apply after will alter the render.
<madeinkobaia> Well, my "sound" and mainly "vision" start to be altered too :D 3 am, time to leave.
<DarkEra> same here, still awake
<zequence> Ah, just when I thought I had crashed my email server
<DarkEra> the design looks nice though madeinkobaia 
<madeinkobaia> Thanks darkera, a lot work and hours on it and at least 20 layers 8-) But I learned a lot stuffs.
<DarkEra> 20 layers? holy crap, that's a lot. But when you keep yourself going you learn and grow indeed :)
<madeinkobaia> There are an amazing amont of filters and settings on Gimp, needs time to learn them all
<madeinkobaia> Some of my works have 100 :D
<DarkEra> wow
<DarkEra> yeah, gimp has a lot of stuff in it
<DarkEra> right, time to head to bed. Chat you all later ;)
<zequence> DarkEra: GN
<DarkEra> night zequence 
<madeinkobaia> Me too, Ok, guys see you later (or earlier ?) zequence  : good luck for mail server config : )
<zequence> I guess I'll sleep when I die, resurrect from the dead, and someone from The Walking Dead stabs me with a wooden poke through my head
<madeinkobaia> lool
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Good Night
<madeinkobaia> Good night Kaj :)
<smartboyhw> zequence: Can you do me a favor, and copy the release notes from the wiki to main site?
<smartboyhw_> Hello DarkEra:)
<DarkEra> hi there smartboyhw_ :)
<DarkEra> spam cleaning: Check. Ubu Stu current checking: Check. Coffee: Check.
<smartboyhw_> DarkEra: :)
<DarkEra> all i need to do now is wake up my brain
<zequence> I'm still working on my imapfilter. Wish I understood the underaying stuff better. Wrestling with syntax is not the most fun thing to do in life.
<zequence> Right now, I'm not a big fan of lua, but I'm sure that's only because I've been getting too many nil related errors during these last days
<zequence> And not because it's a rotten dirty language
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Hurray! But can you do me the favor?:P
<zequence> smartboyhw_: I'll take care of all the postings. Just give me the link, no problem
<smartboyhw_> zequence: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/UbuntuStudio
<smartboyhw_> zequence: One thing: Please let me have a look of the release announcement before it's out.;P
<zequence> smartboyhw_: The final release announcement is more a job for the project lead. I will talk not only about the release, but about the future. I won't be asking people about their opinion. All though, my job is as always to follow what I've understood to be best for the community
<zequence> I mean, I won't ask people about their opinion of the release announcement, that is
<smartboyhw_> pl
<smartboyhw_> ok
<smartboyhw_> DarkEra: You did some testing on the current ISO?
<zequence> ..I just want to filter my mail with generic tools. How hard can it be?
<smartboyhw_> zequence: It depends;P
<smartboyhw_> XD
<DarkEra> smartboyhw_, no, not yet. I just finished writing it to usb stick
<smartboyhw_> DarkEra: Alright :)
 * smartboyhw_ hates possible respins
<smartboyhw_> The Kubuntu-styled new ubiquity for Kubuntu is quite buggy it seems
<DarkEra> testing will have to wait til my wife comes back, i'm taking care of the kids at the moment :)
<smartboyhw_> DarkEra: No worries:)
<smartboyhw_> DarkEra: speaking of this, can you help us do some upgrade testing?
 * DarkEra needs a testing machine
<DarkEra> smartboyhw_, from what to what version?
<smartboyhw_> DarkEra: 12.10 -> 13.04
<smartboyhw_> These things don't respin:P (except image upgrading)
<smartboyhw_> DarkEra: Try doing the Software Updater first 
<DarkEra> i only have 12.04 and 13.04 on this machine
<smartboyhw_> Uh oh.
<smartboyhw_> DarkEra: Try using ^*
<smartboyhw_> s/^*/VMs/
<smartboyhw_> Grrr
<DarkEra> time is not on my side today but testing 13.04 could be done though
<smartboyhw_> DarkEra: OK
<smartboyhw_> zequence: As a Ubuntu Forums user, please support https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+bug/1172218
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1172218 in ubuntu-website-content "Ubuntu Forums not listed as part of thriving community" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<zequence> smartboyhw_: Thanks. I reconfirmed it :)
 * smartboyhw_ salutes to zequence for his help
<smartboyhw> Hey DarkEra:)
<smartboyhw> It turns out we won't have any respins again (except for Kubuntu)
<DarkEra> i thought so :)
<DarkEra> good afternoon by the way
<smartboyhw> zequence: Do you want to do a session in Ubuntu Open Week-R for Ubuntu Studio?
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, guess what, i found out i still have a 12.10 32bit iso on one of my external hd
<DarkEra> i could wipe the hd on my netbook, install 12.10 and test a upgrade if wanted
<smartboyhw> ooh
<smartboyhw> Thanks!
<DarkEra> i'm busy copying it to the home folder and create a usb stick at the moment
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> Damn possible respin due to a package that shouldn't exist:O
<smartboyhw> In our images at least.
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: ^
 * smartboyhw emits blood
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, ok thanks, i'll wait and zsync later on when the respin is out. For now i'll keep myself busy with testing the upgrade. Had phone and starting to create the usb stick now
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: Keep on with the upgrades, they won't be affected:)
<DarkEra> ok :)
<DarkEra> heya madeinkobaia how are you doing today buddy? :)
<madeinkobaia> darkera : I am fine :)
<DarkEra> that's great :)
<DarkEra> i need some food, bbl
<smartboyhw> Hello madeinkobaia:)
<madeinkobaia> I put in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-art/ubuntustudio-resources/art/files/head:/ON-AIR/   2 preview banners for G+/FB. That is a special version for the 13.04 release. Any feedback is welcome.
<madeinkobaia> zequence : ^
<madeinkobaia> Hi smartboyhw, how are you ?
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Great. I'll have a look
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia: Hurray!
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : Thanks : ) Witch version do you prefer ? 05 or 06 ?
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia: Both are OK I think.
<smartboyhw> I rather prefer 05 though
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I think 06 has a nicer style, but 05 speaks more directly - easier to catch it with the eyes
 * smartboyhw has the same comment as zequence
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : Ok, Lets go for the 05 ! 
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Probably because of too much complexity around the letters. The splashes might work better around the letters :)
<smartboyhw> zequence: 05 then?
<zequence> Badly explained, but you know what I mean
 * smartboyhw can understand even being an art crap:P
<madeinkobaia> zequence : Hello, yeah no problems :)
<zequence> madeinkobaia: hi :)
<smartboyhw> OK, we are really gonna respin soon.
<smartboyhw> Does anyone know what purpose of unity-assets-pool in our image?
<madeinkobaia> The release is still for tomorrow ?
<smartboyhw> It's the package causing the respin (thx Microsoft for complaining about Skype)
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia: It always is.
<madeinkobaia> Ok so I will put the definitive version this evening in the branch, like that we can for tomorrow have our banners on line on G+ and FB : )
<smartboyhw> ok
<madeinkobaia> I be back around 8 pm (gmt +1), that let us a little bit time of reflexion for any changes on the banners. See you all : )
<DarkEra> 05 looks nice indeed
<DarkEra> right, had some food, installing 12.10 on the netbook now
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, software updater doesn't show 13.04 yet so can't upgrade through that
<zequence> DarkEra: Start if from the terminal. Two options. I think -d would be one. See update-manager --help
<zequence> Since it's still marked as development release, you need to specify you are upgrading to the development release
<DarkEra> that's what i thought since 13.04 is not released yet and still needs testing
<DarkEra> thanks zequence i'll look into that
<DarkEra> yep, got it. Starting upgrade now
<DarkEra> yay! upgrade finished
<madeinkobaia> darkera : : )
<madeinkobaia> The final (?) version of the social network banner for 13.04 available here : http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-art/ubuntustudio-resources/art/files/head:/social-networks_googleplus/
<madeinkobaia> I also cleaned the Ubuntu Studio logo = before : https://plus.google.com/u/0/102125777892703446963/posts after : https://plus.google.com/u/0/112937756282972852089/posts
<madeinkobaia> zequence : ^
<DarkEra> zsync time
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Ah, great work on the logo :)
<zequence> And that Debian banner looks awesome :)
<madeinkobaia> zequence : Yep, the banner is one of my wp I made for Debian :)
<madeinkobaia> zequence : For the logo I just added some blur, the borders are smooth now : )
<zequence> Yes, the borders were ok against white background, for apparent reasons. They needed to be cleaned up :)
<zequence> Actually, I've cropped the picture on the G+ site
<zequence> ..I think
<zequence> :P
<zequence> Anyway. It's good we have a nice set of replacements :)
<madeinkobaia> zequence : Hope to see the result on line : )
<zequence> We have new releases of ISOs out now
<zequence> Should finally be the final ones
<zequence> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/269/builds
<zequence> They will need a bit of testing
<len-1304> Ya about 2 hours ago.
<len-1304>  Just downloaded... but have a dentist app now :P
<zequence> len-1304: Always fun :)
<len-1304> I will test 32bit later when I get back.
<zequence> I'm zynking both ISOs now. It's getting late, but I should be able to pull off some testing
<DarkEra> zsync is done so i'm preparing the usb stick
<DarkEra> i hope i can do some testing to but have to keep a eye on our oldest
<zequence> Either I'm really stupid, or mail filtering is stupid
<madeinkobaia> "The truth is often between opposite" (by "Lao Tseu", but I am not sure :D )
<zequence> Both could be true too
<madeinkobaia> ...and reciprocally.
<zequence> I'm realizing I'm dealing with databases, but I'm not doing it hands on, so I take the long way around understanding what I'm doing
<madeinkobaia> lol, you're using "regular expressions" for create filters ?
<madeinkobaia> Any Led Zeppelin fan's on Ubuntu Studio ?
<zequence> I'm using a tool called imapfilter, to filter my IMAP mailbox. The filtering is done in LUA
<madeinkobaia> zequence : ok
<zequence> I'm emigrating to the mutt email client, from Opera
<zequence> Or migrating :)
<madeinkobaia> Depends on the place you leave ;)
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: You zsynced the new image 20130424;
<smartboyhw> ?
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, yep
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: \o/
<DarkEra> just installing it on the third partition on the laptop
<DarkEra> almost done
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, i also upgraded 12.10 to 13.04 on the netbook
<DarkEra> i'm on that right now
 * smartboyhw hugs DarkEra
<DarkEra> :)
<DarkEra> you can see how much i care about the project
<DarkEra> i just want to thank you smartboyhw and zequence for being patient and showing me the way, i really appreciate that
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: :) I should have helped you do some testing, but holy christ secondary 3 tests took most of my time away:( I have a Chinese History test tmr.
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, it's ok and i understand. Your private life and school have priority
<smartboyhw> :)
<DarkEra> it was a busy day here to with my kids so i couldn't do much anyway
<DarkEra> at least i got the netbook install upgraded this evening
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-04-25
<smartboyhw> Whoa so many small bugs:O
<smartboyhw> zequence: I am proposing to mark the installation testcases ready.
<smartboyhw> The testcases has passed (albeit a lot of small bugs inherited from other software)
<zequence> Seems like we've had a lot of help testing Ubuntu Studio for this final release
<zequence> So many bugs reported too
<zequence> A couple of them are the same on Xubuntu
<smartboyhw> zequence: Should I mark these as ready?
<zequence> THere is one bug I can't even take a loot at because of a bug in the iso tracker view
<zequence> smartboyhw: I'm checking the bugs first. I can mark them ready once I'm done
<zequence> Ah, no. There are two bugs about phatch. They won't open. Looks like a python bug
<zequence> Marked ready then
<DarkEra> morning
<smartboyhw> Hey DarkEra:) And thanks zequence
<DarkEra> hi smartboyhw :)
<DarkEra> and zequence ;)
<DarkEra> looks like we got a go 
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: Upgrades ?
<DarkEra> hmm?
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: It seems that you didn't report upgrade results:P
<DarkEra> did anyone else do a upgrade with a 64bit?
<smartboyhw> I don't think we do care much for upgrades though.
<smartboyhw> for 13.04
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: Dunno I guess not.
<DarkEra> at some point there was a message my system would be broken, it went by too fast to write it down and scrolling on this netbook with the touchpad is a pain.
<smartboyhw> Uh
<DarkEra> i thought here we go, but when finished i rebooted and all looks fine to me though. One thing it didn't delete and that's the gnome system monitor, the rest looks the same as 13.04
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: Oh OK
<DarkEra> brb
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, zequence: This release sounds early in time compared to 12.10 or (especially) 13.04 Beta 2
<smartboyhw> LOL
<DarkEra> :D
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: For Beta 2 it got released in Friday afternoon, thanks to Canonical IS working times;P
<DarkEra> were there some problems with the Beta 2?
<DarkEra> guess so if it was released a day later
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: The testcases are finished at a very late time that the Canonical Internet Services have gone asleep:X-(
<DarkEra> aha, i see
<DarkEra> it's the same with every single release... people start asking when it can be downloaded.... lol
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: Yep
<smartboyhw> I remember 12.10 release day's #ubuntu-release-party
<smartboyhw> People get banned for sharing the download links pre-announced
<DarkEra> i remember something about that to from a few years ago in #ubuntu
<DarkEra> was another release, 9.04 or 9.10 and peeps got banned
<smartboyhw> oh
<DarkEra> some people are going to shoot me now i'm back again on Ubuntu... lol
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: Who? The Fuduntu people?!
<DarkEra> no, some from other projects but i don't care at all. Everyone is free to join in where they want and use what they like in the linux world imho
<smartboyhw> lol
<DarkEra> true or not? :)
<DarkEra> anyhoo, the circle is complete, i'm back home again
<smartboyhw> :)
<zequence> smartboyhw: You mean, it seems the final release will actually be released on time?
<smartboyhw> zequence: Or rather, at a good time (like 14:00 UTC)
<zequence> smartboyhw: Has it been set to that?
<smartboyhw> Last time it got out in 18;30 I thinj
<zequence> 18:00 is quite a common time, yes
<smartboyhw> zequence: Pure guess. I said I think 
<zequence> Usually it's 18:00
<smartboyhw> zequence: Hope it's earlier;P
<DarkEra> someone posted a link in the OMG Ubuntu community, i requested to remove it
<DarkEra> on google+ that is
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: Good job!
<DarkEra> gonna drop that into the release party channel too :P
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: :X-(
<smartboyhw> Damn it is a :P
<smartboyhw> zequence: I guess I got it correct that it will release eaely
<smartboyhw> *early
<zequence> smartboyhw: Anyone can win on the lottery
<smartboyhw> zequence: lol
<smartboyhw> zequence: Damn it I told holstein to appear around 1400UTC to do the topic change in #ubuntustudio â¦ It's OK to delay changing that but:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: The topics for the IRC channels are not that important. Doesn't matter if they are not changed right away
<zequence> In fact, there is no law that says we need to announce releases right away either
<zequence> We can wait until the next day if we want
<zequence> There's no hurry
<smartboyhw> yep
 * smartboyhw didn't expect it to release that early either till today 05:45 UTC
<smartboyhw> That's very efficient of the Ubuntu Release Team
<DarkEra> you guys think i should keep 64bit running on this machine? Someone told me once to use the 64bit versions of distro's just because it's a 64bit processor
<DarkEra> congrats on the new release guys, you did a great job
<smartboyhw> zequence: start doing the things
<smartboyhw> :P
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, he took off on a holiday, we're on our own xD
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: He is doing all the announcements, and he did said he'll wait till 13.04 is released (like now)
<DarkEra> i know :)
<smartboyhw> For the first time ever, we have no time for the new dev release after one release is released.
<smartboyhw> s/time/name/
<kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "For the first name ever, we have no time for the new dev release after one release is released."
<smartboyhw> BAH
<smartboyhw> Second one:P
<zequence> Sent to Linux Audio Announcements and our User mail list
<zequence> We could post on other non audio announce pages too, I guess
<zequence> mail lists, I mean
<zequence> And, forums, etc
<DarkEra> i'll write a post for my blog to help spreading 'the word'
<smartboyhw> zequence: \o/ I will also write a blog post
<DarkEra> cool :)
<DarkEra> what the... wow
<DarkEra> i feel honoured that i'm mentioned in the post on the site. Thank you zequence 
<zequence> I didn't forget anyone, did I? :)
<zequence> We have more people involved, and actually, I should add that we get help from non Ubuntu Studio devs too
 * DarkEra turns up the volume: Gangnam Style! but can't dance the dance or his back will snap
<smartboyhw> zequence: :)
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: LOL
<zequence> But, that was the list that came into mind when thinking purely of active Ubuntu Studio developers
<DarkEra> zequence, i'll mention that we are searching for people to join us if they are interested in my blog post
<zequence> DarkEra: That would be good. You can link them to the Contribute page on our website if you like
<DarkEra> sure thing zequence i'll do so
 * smartboyhw will absolutely do that also
<DarkEra> i hope that by the time the beta's of 13.10 come out, i will have a desktop pc. If so then i can use the laptop as testing machine
<DarkEra> bbl by the way, going for a walk first :)
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: Erm what's your real name?
<zequence> I'm heading out for a bicycle ride. Will be gone for 2-3 hours or so
<DarkEra> zequence, have fun and enjoy the ride :)
<DarkEra> smartboyhw_, my real name as is on Google+ :P
<DarkEra> Maik Adamietz
<smartboyhw_> Ah I forgotten sorty
<zequence> DarkEra: Thanks
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Let's celebrate (LOL)
<smartboyhw_> But first of all, can you remove those release-related items in the channel topic here?
<zequence> smartboyhw_: I've never done that before, so I don't know how. I'll have a look at that when I come back
<smartboyhw_> â¦ OK
<len-1304> The bug about mudita... I am wondering if the person has an ice1712 card even.
<len-1304> mudita works fine for me.
<zequence> len-1304: I commented about that. You have to have the card for it to start
<zequence> So, probably he didn't
<len-1304> I wish people would run things from a terminal... mudita tells you it can't find a card if its not there
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Do you want to do an Open Week session for Ubuntu Studio?
<zequence> smartboyhw_: I haven't planned anything, but we should try to involve users in different ways
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Just to tell you: Date: 22-23 May Time: 13:00-18:00 Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<DarkEra> smartboyhw_, no worries ;)
<DarkEra> catch you guys later, going for a walk
<smartboyhw_> Saucy Salamander: The official codename of S as announced by sabdfl
<smartboyhw_> holstein: ping
<DarkEra> Saucy Salamander?
<DarkEra> bbl, food time
<madeinkobaia> 13.04 released ! Congrats to all : )
<DarkEra> same to you :)
<madeinkobaia> darkera : :) Thanks 
<DarkEra> you have done a great job on the designs, keep up the great work ;)
<madeinkobaia> darkera : Thanks, glad to see the social network banners on line.
<DarkEra> madeinkobaia, you're welcome and i mean what i say. And yeah, i noticed them straight away and am glad they are online too
<madeinkobaia> darkera : : )
<madeinkobaia> See u all : ) bbl or bbt
<zequence> Ok, so next release will be saucy
<zequence> Let's make it a tasty salamander
<DarkEra> hell yeah, i'm all in for that :)
<DarkEra> proposal to change the menu a bit. I noticed that for example Gimp shows up twice, once in Graphics and once under Photography. From my point of view it would be ok to let it show up under Graphics only
<DarkEra> just a thought
<zequence> DarkEra: Personally, I agree with you on that. But, the design of the menu was not only for keeping applications separate and easy to find. Each workflow may have use of a set of applications
<zequence> And the workflows aren't standard categories. They are more intended as workflows
<zequence> So, if you are a photographer, you should be able to find anything you need for photography in the photography section in the menu
<DarkEra> zequence, aha, i see
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-04-26
<holstein> relax.. its updated
<holstein> !vanilla
<zequence> holstein: Try chokolate ;)
<zequence> chocolate*
<ttoine> hello
<zequence> ttoine: hi
<ttoine> zequence, I am testing ubuntu phone
<zequence> ttoine: Ah, how is it?
<ttoine> a demo...
<smartboyhw> Hello IRC
<ttoine> hello
<smartboyhw> Hey ttoine:)
<zequence> ttoine: How's your new life coming along?
<smartboyhw> zequence, ttoine: What new life? And zequence, help me change the chan topics in here;P
<zequence> smartboyhw: didn't you get op status?
<zequence> I can't seem to get it
<zequence> I don't have time for this right now
<smartboyhw> zequence: What? 
<smartboyhw> I have...
<smartboyhw> zequence: /msg ChanServ OP #ubuntustudio-devel
<smartboyhw> Hurray!
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Ubuntu Studio 12.04.2 LTS is released: ISO- http://goo.gl/FEAxP Notes-http://goo.gl/29QaS | Please test the 13.04 RC  images in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current | Release status in http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/2bq42lItlT
<zequence> dammit
<smartboyhw> :O
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | find Ubuntu Studio stable Releases at https://ubuntustudio.org/download/ | latest current ISO http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/ |
<zequence> Now noone needs to change the topic ever again :D
<smartboyhw> zequence: :D
<DarkEra> morning
<DarkEra> afternoon actually but i just woke up
 * DarkEra pokes smartboyhw and zequence : http://mathiusquest.blogspot.be/2013/04/the-time-has-come-its-finally-here.html
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: :)
<zequence> DarkEra: You misspelled my name. It's Ailomaa :)
 * smartboyhw does have one too at http://smartboyhw.tk/wordpress_smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> lol
<DarkEra> zequence, oh shi-!
<DarkEra> fixing it
<zequence> I realize we should make sure to thank people helping test our images
<zequence> Let's make sure to do that in the future
<DarkEra> +1
<zequence> I've been thinking about the possibility to create more than one desktop base for Ubuntu Studio. 
<DarkEra> what? really?
<zequence> We'd still only have one default, but users could get some Ubuntu Studio specific stuff against LXDE, KDE, Gnome3 and Unity
<zequence> I'm thinking LXDE would be a good addition for people with old machines
<smartboyhw> zequence: +1 on thanking testers, +0 for the DEs.
<zequence> Or, something even less RAM and CPU hungry
<smartboyhw> zequence: Let me work on a Lubuntu Studio:P
<smartboyhw> LOL
<smartboyhw> We have Dream Studio as base for Unity, KXStudio as base for KDE
<DarkEra> we should have a meeting and discuss the various aspects
<DarkEra> :)
<zequence> DarkEra: I don't think it is something that requires a vote. 
<zequence> We have one default, but if someone would like to expand to other desktops, it would be that persons choice
<DarkEra> that's true
<zequence> As long as the work is in the spirit of UBuntu Studio
<smartboyhw> zequence: Will that be in a PPA or official archive?
<DarkEra> i was thinking about how ubuntu studio would be if it was a Gnome 3 distro
<zequence> smartboyhw: We have no need for PPAs for this kind of thing
<zequence> A PPA is a personal package archive. Not an official Ubuntu flavor repository
<smartboyhw> Try not to go with too many big targets, we have already linux-rt & ubuntustudio-controls to care about
<zequence> Gnome3 could be tweaked a lot, if someone has some javascripting skills
<smartboyhw> zequence: You really think you can cope with it? (If no new devs comes in)
<zequence> smartboyhw: I didn't say I was going to do it
<zequence> First, we put out the ideas. Then, each of us start working on what we think is most important
<smartboyhw> zequence: Ehâ¦:P
<zequence> The work that is completed will go in. The work that is not done, will not go in. Simple as that
<zequence> I can't force anyone to do anything. This is a volunteer project, after all
<zequence> It's always best to work on the things that you like to work on
<zequence> I think the main priority for me will be improving the audio plumbing in Debian and Ubuntt
<smartboyhw> zequence: So linux-rt or ubuntustudio-controls or other DE support which is your priority?
<smartboyhw> Damn I missed
<zequence> I will be very busy now until Monday afternoon. From Monday and onwards, I'll start working on blueprints and workitems
<smartboyhw> zequence: Oh?
<zequence> You are all free to discuss what you would like to work on for the next cycle. I can't participate until after Monday
<smartboyhw> Anyway it's weekends 
<smartboyhw> zequence: For me it will be either linux-rt or KDE support 
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, nice blog post :)
<zequence> smartboyhw: If you like, start working on a ubuntustudio-desktop-kde meta package, and if you need to add settings for it, either add them to a branched custom ubuntustudio-default-settings, or create a new one called ubuntustudio-kde-default-settings
<zequence> Once it is in a workable state, we do testing. Then, we add them to the Ubuntu repo. This does mean that you will be required to do maintenance on those packages also for the future
<zequence> DarkEra: If you want to learn more about development, and if you are motivated about Gnome3, I could help you with that, as that is interesting to me also
<zequence> DarkEra: I could set up the barebones in a PPA. Then, we collaborate on defining what we need and don't need for a ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome package
<smartboyhw> zequence: Sure do. After all, I'm also a Kubuntu member, so I can ask the Kubuntu experts when necessary:)
<zequence> DarkEra: It's not that technical really. Just takes a bit of time to do everything
<zequence> smartboyhw: Have you yet built a -rt kernel against the ubuntu kernel source?
<zequence> or, patching the ubuntu kernel source with the -rt patch
<smartboyhw> zequence: Not yet. Building kernels needs a lot of time even with -j4
<DarkEra> zequence, that would be great and very interesting to because i know zero, i'm just a so called basic user who knows some stuff and finds his way :)
<DarkEra> s/to/too
 * smartboyhw can't afford going over -j4
<zequence> DarkEra: Great. We could start working on something next week
<zequence> smartboyhw: You can upload to PPA and have them built there
<DarkEra> zequence, cool, i'm very excited about it already
<smartboyhw> zequence: Even the source uploading will damn fail. I need to set up sftp then.
<zequence> smartboyhw: If it fails, you're doing something wrong. But, we'll get to that.
<smartboyhw> zequence: The kernel source is too big to be uploaded using ftp
<smartboyhw> For me at least (like Calligra)
<smartboyhw> Calligra only failed once, and that's a backport:P
<smartboyhw> That's a known bug
<zequence> smartboyhw: You should only need to upload the diff
<zequence> Since you base it on a ubuntu kernel, there will be a .orig file to base it on
<smartboyhw> zequence: I may not be able to spend so much time in Saucy cycle, I have school exams in early June, study tour to UK in July and piano exam in August-September
<zequence> smartboyhw: piano exam? What will you be playing?
<zequence> smartboyhw: piano exam? What will you be playing?
<smartboyhw> zequence: Grade 8
<smartboyhw> A piece from J.S. Bach, one from Beethoven and one from Chopin
<zequence> smartboyhw: Not decided yet?
<smartboyhw> zequence: Date not
<zequence> smartboyhw: Yes, but the actual pieces?
<smartboyhw> It will be told when I'm in UK
<smartboyhw> zequence: Yes
<zequence> smartboyhw: I was just curious on which exact pieces you would be playing and what you thought of them. I play a bit of piano myself, all though, I don't consider myself a pianist
<ttoine> zequence, smartboyhw, a bit too much busy, this week ;-)
<smartboyhw> zequence: Er let me list it
<smartboyhw> 1st movement from Partita No.5 in G, BWV 829 by J.S. Bach
<smartboyhw> And damn it it wasn't Beethoven for the 2nd piece, it is Clementi
<smartboyhw> 3rd movemet from Sonata in G, Op. 37 No.2, by Muzio Clementi
<smartboyhw> Grande Valse Brilliante, Op. 34 No. 3 by Frederyk Chopin
<zequence> smartboyhw: Very good pieces for learning finger technique I suppose. A lot of scales up and down. Soft playing
<zequence> I've never played any of those. Now that I hear them, makes sense for learning better technique
<zequence> smartboyhw: Do you have any favorite piece you like to play just for fun?
<smartboyhw> zequence: Eh let me take a shower first. My answer is the theme song of "You are the Apple of my eye", the Taiwanese movie which has gained the most box office in films made in the Greater China Region.
<zequence> smartboyhw: I see why that movie might be so popular :)
<zequence> This is one of my favorite pieces on piano. From Bachs Art of the Fugue, Contrapunctus 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmxMel8HHN8
<zequence> A bit nerdy music, if I say so myself
<zequence> but also very beautiful
<zequence> Not really a piano piece, but you can play it fine on a piano
<contrapunctus> Thanks, zequence ;)
<DarkEra> and off he went into another dimension
<zequence> Here's a guy that plays half a note down (they think d minor in those days was actually closer to c# minor, I guess) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFYLBwbXFXE
<zequence> Sounds like walking in a hall of mirrors somehow
<smartboyhw> lol
<DarkEra> going for a walk, when i get back i'm going to install Ubuntu Gnome next to ubu studio and have a look around in preperation for next week
<smartboyhw> DarkEra: thx!
<DarkEra> hmm?
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Sounds like Edubuntu did the KDE thing once
<zequence> smartboyhw_: The main thing for us will be to ensure good performance for all our workflows
<zequence> smartboyhw_: Well, that and a sane list of dependencies. We don't need libre office, etc
<holstein> i dont mind having libre office
<smartboyhw_> zequence: I will keep the apps the same
<zequence> Actually, anything automatic in the background may need to be investigated, also for XFCE
<zequence> holstein: It's not a Ubuntu Studio application suite
<zequence> Unless, one considers it a part of publishing
<zequence> we don't need it for a desktop base anyway
<holstein> i think its just what folks expect to have..
<holstein> i mean, i could get behind not having an office suite
<smartboyhw_> zequence, holstein: I don't mind adding it. 
<holstein> but, trading libreoffice for something lighter is not necessarily something i agree with
<holstein> the iso is already *not* a CD size, and wont ever be
<holstein> but, as always.. im with you guys
 * smartboyhw_ suggests Calligra, since Krita is packaged within Calligra
<holstein> just seems libreoffice is the flagship office suite, and is well supported
<holstein> smartboyhw_: i would entertain using/testing that
<smartboyhw_> holstein: sudo apt-get install calligra
<zequence> About 350MB extra space. Well, it's an idea
<zequence> But, my point was not about libreoffice
<zequence> It was about what is important for a desktop base. not the choice of default installed packages for Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> IF we will be having additional desktop bases, each of them needs to be optimized for multimedia, or there's no point in making special packages for them at all
<smartboyhw_> zequence: A word processor and spreadsheet software:P
<holstein> also, it could be about sneaking in a good set of wanted packages.. to give us an edge
<holstein> good is a matter of opinion.. but if folks want "light" ubuntu with a certain set of packages installed, they might come to ubuntustudio
<zequence> holstein: We're discussing adding new desktop metas, adding to the existing one
<zequence> so, doing one based on LXDE would be light
<zequence> one based on Unity, would not be
<holstein> cool
<zequence> But, all of them needs to be optimized for multimedia
<holstein> i'll go on record as saying i think its uncessary
<zequence> That is the point I'm trying to get across right now
<holstein> and again, im with you guys
<smartboyhw_> zequence, so only GNOME, KDE and LXDE?
<zequence> smartboyhw_: It's up to anyone who wants to do the work
<holstein> libreoffice works fine in LXDE
<zequence> holstein: Again, I wasn't talking about default installed backages, but about the desktop base
<holstein> right
<smartboyhw_> zequence: For a strange thing nobody ever suggested using LXDE for a multimedia distro at all
<holstein> having an ubuntustudio-LXDE-desktop or whatever
<holstein> and other ones...
<zequence> If we do add more choices, we could make them choosable when installing from the DVD
<smartboyhw_> zequence: OK
<zequence> But, we can't ship the actual binaries on DVD
<zequence> The user will need to be connected to the internet
<zequence> Only the default desktop will be on DVD, which is XFCE
<smartboyhw_> But we need to remind them that they need internet connectionsâ¦ (Ah damn you said it already)
<zequence> We don't need to remind them. We make the installer be aware of it
<zequence> As it is already for updates and restricted extras
<smartboyhw_> zequence: OK
<zequence> libre office is about 350 MB extra space. I'm not for adding it right now anyway. I do however think some of it relates to our publishing workflow. Exactly what could be investigated
<zequence> If anyone wants to start sketching on blueprints, you are free to start now
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Sketching i.e. = ?
<smartboyhw_> How to define?
<zequence> smartboyhw_: whiteboard text, and workitems
<smartboyhw_> zequence: What blueprints do we have now? I would rather add a DE support blueprint
<zequence> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-s-flavor-ubuntustudio
<zequence> We have a desktop blueprint
<smartboyhw_> zequence: OK
<zequence> But, if you really want to start a KDE desktop meta, you can start a new blueprint
<zequence> For the Ubuntu project, with the same sort of naming
<zequence> I'll add it as a dependency later
<zequence> Nothing is written in stone yet, so we can move things around
<CoCo|> Hi I'm new 0.o see you guys are arguing about libre office??
<zequence> ubuntustudio-s-meta means the meta source package, where all of our metas are defined
<zequence> CoCo|: Not really arguing yet
<smartboyhw_> zequence: OK. Do you think it's gd or not to actually add DE-specific blueprints?
<smartboyhw_> Hello CoCo| :)
<zequence> smartboyhw_: As I said, if you really want to do a KDE desktop base, start a new blueprint for it
<zequence> Call it ubuntustudio-s-desktop-kde
<smartboyhw_> zequence: OK 
 * smartboyhw_ goes does that
<zequence> smartboyhw_: I'll add it as a dependency
<zequence> smartboyhw_: You'll be responsible for that blueprint, but I will still want to assure quality on whatever ends up in the Ubuntu repo and our DVD under the Ubuntu Studio name
<zequence> So, I might have occasional remarks, or suggestions
<zequence> The goal is for each desktop base to be optimized for multimedia
<zequence> If it is not, then there's no point in doing one for Ubuntu Studio
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Assignee, Drafter and Approver?
<smartboyhw_> zequence: OK;)
<zequence> smartboyhw_: Make ubuntustudio-core the approver, the rest is for you
<smartboyhw_> ok
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Hmm why is there a "dev" sprint?
<smartboyhw_> Back
<zequence> smartboyhw_: Don't worry about the sprints. We can fix any details later too
<smartboyhw_> zequence: OK
<zequence> smartboyhw_: You'll need to create a bzr branch for the desktop meta. You can add one to the ubuntustudio-dev repos
<zequence> ubuntustudio-desktop-kde seems like a proper name. I'm not comfortable using kubuntustudio as of yet, anyway. that is something that could be discussed
 * holstein +1 on ubuntustudio-desktop-***
<zequence> We'll need to add a file for it in our seeds too
<zequence> The metas get all their dependencies from the seeds
<holstein> i guess the question is, what does it change?
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Check. The blueprint is in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-s-desktop-kde
<zequence> holstein: What does what change?
<holstein> lets say i have kubuntu installed.. what does that change? and do i want to have anything changed?
<zequence> holstein: We'll be introducing ubuntustudio-controls to the mix later on. There will be differences, in optimization, package selection, settings, and theming
<zequence> Just changing the theme is not going to be reason enough anyway
<smartboyhw_> Hello DarkEra:)
<DarkEra> hi smartboyhw_ 
<zequence> The differences don't need to be huge. They just need to be improvements for multimedia
<zequence> And preferably, installable from the main ISO
<zequence> One of the most obvious things one might want to change is desktop effects
<zequence> Another, background processes, like file indexing, or checking for updates. Anything automatic might cause problems, and may need to be shut off
<zequence> Probably many of those processes are the same on many of the flavors
<zequence> Might be worth to make the switchable, using -controls
<smartboyhw_> yep
<CoCo|> Anyone have a link to most recent developmental ISO?? I keep getting a broken link. 
<smartboyhw_> CoCo| just refer to the channel topic, the download link has 13.04
<zequence> CoCo|: Are you interested in helping out with development?
<CoCo|> I've been a Linux user for 10 years I think its time to help lol
<smartboyhw_> We don't have saucy ISOs
<zequence> CoCo|: Development of the next release has not really started yet, as 13.04 was just released. We'll be mostly doing planning for a couple of weeks
<smartboyhw_> CoCo| \o/
<zequence> CoCo|: You're most welcome to join us
<CoCo|> Yeah I figured I just got back into coding I've been working on my Indy game projects mostly
<zequence> CoCo|: next week planning will start more seriously. In May, there will be a virtual Ubuntu Developer Summit. After that, you could say, development really starts
<zequence> CoCo|: What sort of things are you most interested in concerning Ubuntu Studio?
<CoCo|> I was studying OS X and iOS recently a
<CoCo|> Looking at connectivity and how things work. I'd really like to incorporate some of those things into this distro
<CoCo|> I feel like that's never been done properly along any distro
<CoCo|> Like the argument earlier about libre office. Its better to have a office suite standard but open office and Google docs are a better fit in my opinion 
<zequence> CoCo|: Why is Open Office preferable to Libre Office, do you think?
<zequence> CoCo|: Connectivity, if you're talking about account related stuff, you should talk to ubuntu one devs, and also, DE devs
<zequence> We don't really develop much software here. We do some, but most of the work is in administering sources, fixing bugs, and communication upstream about bugs and ideas
<CoCo|> Outside of accounts. With android and soon ubuntu phone I feel there should be more to flow
<CoCo|> Airplay on apple being a perfect example. HiFi music is amazing and I miss it
<zequence> Ok, so Apps?
<CoCo|> Yeah I suppose
<zequence> CoCo|: Ubuntu is looking for people who want to code apps, and you should be able to find support on both IRC and mail lists. Here's a good place to start http://developer.ubuntu.com/
<zequence> App coding is still pretty new
<zequence> I mean, apps for Unity. And I'm not sure how that works between the phone and the destop yet
<zequence> I will want to look at what we can do on a phone or a table later on, but probably that will mostly be about adding a linux-lowlatency for arm, and maybe some kind of jack control app
<CoCo|> That would be awesome id love to help with that. 
<zequence> We are actually among the least DE orientated among all the distros, as we focus mostly on multimedia
<CoCo|> Yeah I understand. But since I develop multimedia I use studio. 
<smartboyhw_> zequence: linux-lowlatency on ARM? That's new
<zequence> CoCo|: falktx who made KXStudio has a jack controls library in python, if you're interested
<zequence> CoCo|: Also, I'm going to start working on ubuntustudio-controls this summer, which in the best scenariou would be a all-in-one audio control application, also one which tunes all sorts of multimedia related settings
<zequence> You are welcome to help with that. It will be written in python. 
<CoCo|> Hell yeah I'm down
<CoCo|> I don't speak the snake much. But I'd be willing to catch up to help out
<zequence> I'm not a big coder myself. So, if anyone wants to take the lead on the hands on work, I don't really care what language it is, as long as it's not too obscure
<zequence> c could work too
<zequence> Not sure about GTK or QT yet
<smartboyhw_> zequence: one good thing I'm learning Python at sku
<CoCo|> I speak C. I'm going to take lessons for python I've gotten big on expanding I'm knowledge
<CoCo|> Coursera has a lot of classes in coding and that's what I'm learning from currently
<zequence> CoCo|: If you stick around for a couple of weeks, I'm sure there will be some concrete ideas to start working from
<CoCo|> I'll be here I really want to dedicate to this
<CoCo|> I'm overall impressed with how serious people in a volunteer community work. 
<zequence> CoCo|: Since the development release right now is basically 13.04, it is fine to start from that. I don't care which DE you use for development, but if you want to do testing, I recommend installing a pure Ubuntu Studio 13.04, which you keep only for testing things
<zequence> CoCo|: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/JoinTheTeam
<zequence> Installing a development release means, installing 13.04, no matter which DE. 
<CoCo|> But I love cinnamon :(
<zequence> Next https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/SetupDeveloperEnvironment
<zequence> CoCo|: Use it if you want. No problem
<zequence> CoCo|: Just make sure, that if you do testing later on, you have a specific install only for that
<zequence> I do development on Gnome3 myself
<zequence> You'll need a Launchpad account, a GPG key, and a SSH key
<zequence> CoCo|: Once you got all of that, let me know. 
<CoCo|> Right-O I'll get started.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Hey man
<madeinkobaia> zequence : Hi :) 
<zequence> smartboyhw_: I didn't know python was that common in school. What other languages do you learn?
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Currently in school only Python, we voted it over C, Pascal and Java. I did learn C and C++ a bit before
<zequence> smartboyhw_: The students had a vote, and chose pythong? wow
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Actually that's because our teacher showed an example that will stop showing inputs when n = 42, and Python uses the least lines;P
<smartboyhw_> I really want to learn Python though
<zequence> ttoine: Do you have any good advice on how to set up the homepage so that people can comment easily, and we don't get too much spam?
<smartboyhw_> Testdrive and all that
<zequence> python is really handy when developing on Debian based for sure
<smartboyhw_> zequence: I seemed to be more focusing on dev for 13.10 :O
<zequence> smartboyhw_: That is Debian based
<ttoine> zequence, the homepage ?
<zequence> ttoine: Well, any homepage, but in this case, ubuntustudio.org
<ttoine> with wordpress ?
<zequence> ttoine: Yes
<smartboyhw_> zequence: You mean Testdrive or 13.10?
<ttoine> zequence, you want people to comment on the frontpage ? not on article ?
<zequence> Right now, only people who are members of the Ubuntu Studio team are supposed to be able to post, but we're getting a lot of spam. I might have bad settings, need to check
<zequence> ttoine: I'm just referring to the security approach
<zequence> We get comments from all sorts of sites
<zequence> It's like some kind of a loopback
<zequence> When someone mentions Ubuntu Studio somehwere
<zequence> Ah, I found the setting
<zequence> "Allow link notifications from other blogs"
<zequence> I think that solves it :P
<zequence> Why would we want that?
<ttoine> zequence, yes, you should disable pingback
<ttoine> It should be that
<ttoine> zequence, is akismet enabled for spam management ?
<smartboyhw_> ttoine: Yes
<zequence> ttoine: Yes
<ttoine> ok so it should work well now if pingback is disabled
<smartboyhw_> Signing off for night. Goodbye zequence and ttoine. /me needs to remind self to get rid of pingbacks.
<ttoine> I am very sorry to be so busy and be able to help you a lot.
<DarkEra> don't be sorry ttoine :)
<ttoine> for information, I chatted a bit with Echo developers and their new USB high end sound card (2 i/o) should work out of the box on linux
<zequence> ttoine: Great news
<DarkEra> that's great news indeed
<zequence> ttoine: We should post things like that. If you don't have the time, could you just give us the quick details, and I can do it
<zequence> We really need more people working with PR
<ttoine> but... it should. it means we have to try! and it costs 450â¬
<ttoine> it is great that we start to post news!*
<zequence> Yes, it will really make a difference, I think. It will draw more people towards our distro, and make it richer
<zequence> more users, more developers, more everything
<ttoine> for you to dream, debian based inside https://twitter.com/HarrisonMixbus/status/327483055289815040/photo/1
<ttoine> it runs a software with the same engine as mixbus
<ttoine> zequence, more everything ;-)
<ttoine> and the branded stuff shop is on the road!
<ttoine> madeinkobaia, if you are here, can I just have some news from you ?
<zequence> Wow
<madeinkobaia> ttoine : I am here
<ttoine> everybody's here
<madeinkobaia> ttoine : How are you ?
<ttoine> busy ;-)
<ttoine> and you
<DarkEra> heya madeinkobaia ;)
<madeinkobaia> ttoine : Cool :)
<madeinkobaia> darkera : Hi : )
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I'd like to add a small html box in the sidebar of our homepage
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I was thinking of your banner for the social sites, but one which more or less only has the notion of 13.04 is out, and maybe the background logo. Something similar to the social graphics anyway
<madeinkobaia> zequence : Ok, no problems. Tell me the details, the size mainly. I will do that
<madeinkobaia> zequence : By size I mean dimensions of the box.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Yes. I will look at that right away
<madeinkobaia> zequence : Great. Bbl :)
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I think width, at the most, 250px. This example is almost the proportions of a CD, but you are free to do whatever you like. http://www.ubuntustudio.mousike.me/
<zequence> This is my staging site, btw. Where we can do experimentations if we want to change something on the site
<DarkEra> cool^
<madeinkobaia> zequence : Good idea the staging site : ) If we're agree on the dimensions (250x200) I will do the box background this we.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I don't care about the height. 250px is not too wide anyway
<madeinkobaia> zequence : I just ask my self...a 250Â² px could be more interesting. A square format is more multipurpose and could usable in other contexts.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Sure
<zequence> madeinkobaia: We could develop that into a imbedded code idea, for people to use on their websites, if they want to
<zequence> embedded*
<madeinkobaia> zequence : Perfect idea.So, ok for the square. The main element you want to focus on is "13.04 available now ? "
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Yeah, basically. But it's nice to keep the same style over everything
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I feel it's starting to grow. And I'm eager to see what we can come up for 14.04 on these ideas
<zequence> This seems like practice before the big event
<madeinkobaia> zequence : One thing is sure...that will rocks ! : )
<zequence> madeinkobaia: :D
<madeinkobaia> 8-)
<madeinkobaia> zequence : I will do the square with round borders (.png + transparency). Normally that works on any navigator now. (Maybe still not with iexplorer 8>10, has they don't respect W3C standards). I must check that.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: cool
<madeinkobaia> zequence : I am back from forums and I have an instant headache when I try to understand how IE works ;) So, I think it will be Ok, anyway people have to use a good internet browser (who said Firefox ?)...no middle-age computing.
<madeinkobaia> IMO
<zequence> I think this is an interesting picture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_by_most_used_web_browser.svg
<zequence> They say people who use IE has the lowest IQ :P
<madeinkobaia> looool
<zequence> And Opera has the highest (Belarus??)
<madeinkobaia> Damn I think Belgium is in...blue : /
<DarkEra> O_o
<zequence> Seems like Chromium is winning the war http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-daily-20130327-20130425-map
<zequence> This is a more recent one (last 30 days)
<zequence> Even Belarus is using Chrome more
<DarkEra> IE is used by all the spammers and their bots
<zequence> Belgium is green, you are sage :) http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-eu-daily-20130327-20130425-map
<zequence> safe*
<zequence> It's just the Dutch and the Swizz who are behind
<madeinkobaia> darkera : We have escaped from the shame :D
<DarkEra> madeinkobaia, wooohoo!
<DarkEra> :D
<zequence> madeinkobaia: This is a bit of a pedantic request, but do you think you could remove the white background from the COF? It only works when there is a white background
<madeinkobaia> zequence : Sure I can, I already tried on G+, works fine. We are on a telepathic creative wave :D
<zequence> hehe
<Len-nb> zequence, there has been some talk above that seemed to be headed in the using unity for Studio. My only comment is that there have been a number of people who have done audio with unity and were asking for help because of problems. As I recall all of the problems went away when unity was not used.
<Len-nb> Unity may work well for some people with audio.
<Len-nb> but there have been more support requests with unity than without.
<zequence> Len-nb: Unity makes sense also since it will be converged between desktop and phone later on
<Len-nb> More support problems never makes sense
<zequence> I don't think desktop related problems are that much of a worry for us though
<zequence> And not a big variable when it comes to multimedia problems
<Len-nb> unity seems to have been a problem. People have switched away from unity and their problems have gone away
<zequence> What kind of problems are you talking about?
<Len-nb> Audio problems... which are our worry
<Len-nb> stability , xruns etc
<zequence> I dont' see how Unity can cause audio problems
<Len-nb> Shouldn't
<Len-nb> I have seen three or four cases where it has.
<zequence> Increased graphics activity will of course make a difference
<zequence> But, it's still more about the kernel. From doing some cyclic tests, I've noticed one thing
<zequence> The chance for getting xruns may be high, but you swon't get them
<zequence> So, you are fooled
<zequence> The cyclic test shows the headroom a bit more clearly
<zequence> If you add stress to the system, you are likely to get more xruns, if you're below the headroom that your system and your latency settings allow
<zequence> If you have very little stress, you might not get any xruns, but that's all
<zequence> I mean, you haven't improved the headroom for xruns. You've just relaxed the system enough for them to not happen as often
<Len-nb> Yup.
<Len-nb> Maybe with the move to MIR there will be more headroom
<zequence> May be the other way around too
<zequence> They might not be focusing on low latency
<zequence> Rather on long battery life
<Len-nb> Ya, gotta pick up son now
<DarkEra> playing around a bit with Gnome 3, this one looks nice
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-04-27
<smartboyhw> I missed the whole conversation from yesterday:(
<smartboyhw> holstein: Thank you for changing the channel topics in #ubuntustudio :)
<holstein> yup.. i did it late, but it got done that day :)
<smartboyhw> holstein: :)
<smartboyhw> zequence: ping ping
<zequence> smartboyhw_: ping pong
<smartboyhw_> zequence: The Xubuntu team is having a brainstorming of making HUDs:O
<zequence> HUDs?
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Yeah
<zequence> Like a Dash?
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Sort of, visit yesterday's #xubuntu-devel log in irclogs.u.c to find out
<zequence> I've created blueprints for Gnome and Unity as well now. If we find someone interested in working with LXDE, that could be added too. I'm not counting on that all of them will be done, but they are up anyway
<zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PermanentBlueprintOverview
<zequence> The LTS release also has a bunch of blueprints up now
<smartboyhw> zequence: :)
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Do we have any blueprints that are assigned to Scott in the permanent blueprint?
<zequence> smartboyhw_: Don't think so, but it doesn't really matter
<smartboyhw_> ok
<zequence> I someone spots and orphande workitem, and would like to do it, one can just ask first, and then grab it
<zequence> orphaned*
<smartboyhw_> zequence: I do think we should put Unity as the priority for DE support, as we are pretty getting more suggestions that we should use Unity. At least more than KDE and GNOME.
<zequence> Yes, it makes sense to ensure support for Unity
<zequence> I've assigen the Unity blueprint to myself
<smartboyhw_> zequence: \o/
<smartboyhw_> zequence: I like the dependency tree in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/topic-flavor-ubuntustudio :P
<zequence> https://plus.google.com/u/0/107928060492923463788/posts/Dic7WeW6yhY
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Read
<smartboyhw_> (in past tense format it is)
<zequence> I don't have those files, so I don't really know what they are about
<smartboyhw> What the... My Xfce went haywire?
 * smartboyhw kicks his mobile phone _ nick
<smartboyhw> zequence, I'm wondering: Am I supposed to create a metapackage only or create a seed?
<zequence> smartboyhw: ubuntustudio-meta holds all of our metas
<zequence> smartboyhw: Dependencies for the metas are handled from seeds
<zequence> smartboyhw: So, you will need to create a new file in seeds with the dependencies for the meta
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> smartboyhw: Get the meta, look at debian/control
<zequence> smartboyhw: Then, get the seeds, and see how other metas are managed
<zequence> smartboyhw: First, create a branch of the meta source. You could use your own PPA if you want
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> smartboyhw: But, you'll need to edit the ubuntu studio seed files. Not sure if there is a saucy yet
<zequence> I guess so.. it's the trunk :O
<zequence> :P
<smartboyhw> zequence, there IS a saucy:P
<zequence> Right, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.saucy
<smartboyhw> zequence, hurrray, I upgraded to the saucy repos and there is no branch for saucy in ubuntustudio-meta:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: There's no branch for saucy until saucy is released
<zequence> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-meta/ubuntustudio-meta
<smartboyhw> zequence, which we hadn't:P
<zequence> I mean, until Ubuntu Saucy is released
<smartboyhw> zequence, some of them are already there, like kubuntu-meta
<zequence> There will be no bzr branch for saucy, until saucy is released
<zequence> until then, we use the development branch
<zequence> What you need to do is create your own branch of the development source
<zequence> Once you've done some testing, and it seems to work, we merge it with the development branch
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK;0
<zequence> smartboyhw: When you build the meta, it will look for the seed files from a specific location
<smartboyhw> zequence, I know
 * smartboyhw did play with the Kubuntu Meta once for adding a software into it
<zequence> let me just update a file in the meta source
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh?
 * smartboyhw is doing some purging and adding in the new seed
<smartboyhw> zequence, we will still be using Firefox whatever DE it is right?
<zequence> smartboyhw: I think the smartest thing is to follow Kubuntu for now, and just remove things that we don't want
<smartboyhw> zequence, Kubuntu uses Rekonq
<smartboyhw> So I'm not sure
<zequence> We can discuss package selection further on
<zequence> Right now, just base it on the Kubuntu desktop stuff, and remove things we don't want
<zequence> smartboyhw: Ok, the meta source is updated. https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-meta/ubuntustudio-meta
<zequence> smartboyhw: So, do you know what to do now?
<zequence> I would name the seed file desktop-kde
<zequence> micahg: The way I'm maintaining linux-lowlatency nowadays is I build the source in a PPA, and then it's just copied from there to proposed. What would you think about doing the same for Ubuntu Studio packackages?
<zequence> micahg: apw has signed my gpg signature, so if you want to get it confirmed, it should be workable
<smartboyhw> zequence, yep
<smartboyhw> Hello DarkEra 
<DarkEra> hi smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, you got assigned to the GNOME blueprint:)
<zequence> DarkEra: I also added you to the Contributor team
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, zequence woohooo! thanks guys
 * smartboyhw is hard-working on writing a science project report, Chinese online exercises and the KDE seed:O
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, :)
<DarkEra> let's see what this 'noob in development' can learn 
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, no worries:)
<DarkEra> ;)
<smartboyhw> zequence, isn't http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2138806 supposed to be stickied?
<zequence> smartboyhw: No
<smartboyhw> zequence, why?:p
<zequence> smartboyhw: Is it important?
<smartboyhw> zequence, why isn't it important?
<zequence> smartboyhw: Why do you ask why?
<smartboyhw> zequence, ......................
 * smartboyhw thinks every human is allowed to ask questions
<zequence> The forum needs some work. It's not a priority right now for me
<zequence> If you ask me why the thread is not sticky, that must mean you think it is important it should be
<smartboyhw> zequence, because if calls for contributions are important, release infos are MORE important
<DarkEra> forum work, love it. Been a moderator and admin myself, still am by the way to help two friends out
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, Fuduntu?
<DarkEra> lol, yeah i was mod there too
<DarkEra> and irc op
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, it's now called FuSE :O
<smartboyhw> FUduntu + opensuSE 
<DarkEra> don't think so they have a new name yet
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, they did hold a meeting on the 21st as I see on their blog and they said they're switching to a new openSUSE base, a new DE that I never heard of, a new community structure consisting of 4 team members + 1 community-elected person, and also a new name FuSE
<smartboyhw> for the DE part, LOL
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, oh you're right, sorry. i already forgot they had that meeting
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, LOL
 * DarkEra shruggs and was too busy testing Ubuntu Studio
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, :)
<DarkEra> so they voted for Consort DE which is brand new and not ready yet (yes i was with solusos too last year). Plus the fact it is just another Gnome 3 fork like Cinnamon
<DarkEra> oh well, their loss :P
<DarkEra> i warned them before
<DarkEra> anyhoo.... enough of the ranting
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, :)
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, why do they SO like GNOME forks?
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, i really don't know
<DarkEra> other news: i've installed ubuntu gnome 13.04 last evening. I like it so far and noticed some changes compared to gnome 3.4
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, but that's not 3.8 you know?
<DarkEra> 3.6 is that what is in 13.04
<DarkEra> ;)
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, yep
<smartboyhw> You can have a PPA for t3.8
<smartboyhw> s/t3.8/3.8/
<kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "You can have a PPA for 3.8"
<DarkEra> i know :)
<DarkEra> i might have a look at that
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, i could be wrong but i don't expect huge changes between 3.6 and 3.8
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, dunno. I don't use GNOME 3 or GNOME 2 or Unity or Consort 
<smartboyhw> I only use Xfce when I am at Ubuntu Studio, and KDE when I am at Kubuntu:p
<DarkEra> :D
<DarkEra> bbiab
<smartboyhw> zequence, we should put DarkEra in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamStructure
<smartboyhw> :p
<smartboyhw> zequence, eh damn it. I edited https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio to change the right banner link to 13.04, and this
<smartboyhw> Notifications sent to: yurelov, astraljava, apw, rdoursenaud, ttoine, selinuxium, garlik42, sconklin, glavkos, grenegar, wmerriam, shirishag75, voodoo-eu, rexbron, davidc3, kangarooo, lavaman, cnewkirk, ing-cristian-dc, ubuntufromscratch, matehortua, schaefer-jason, coryisatm, timg-tpi, eliasmansilla, roydamen, kurt-kapotski, stochastic, timmie, ailo.at
<smartboyhw> :O
<smartboyhw> What the hell!?
 * smartboyhw misses ailo:P
<smartboyhw> Oh he was added
<zequence> Oh, good. I forgot about the wiki
<smartboyhw> zequence, DarkEra was added sorry I missed:P
<Len-nb> zequence, just a reminder, I think we need a bluprint item to add gparted to the desktop
<Len-nb> also, I will be moving virtkb to midi utils... which reminds me, should we be changing focus of midi from alsa midi to jack midi?
<Len-nb> Jack midi seems to be the more stable resource
<Len-nb> A3 uses jack midi, firewire does, etc. Perhaps add the jack virtual kb instead of the one we have now.
<smartboyhw> zequence, what did I miss?
<smartboyhw> Hello Len-nb 
<smartboyhw> Any Ardour package will be auto-synced into Ubuntu Saucy:)
<smartboyhw> Ardour 3 that is
<zequence> Len-nb: Just add whatever workitems you like to the existing blueprints
<Len-nb> right
<zequence> Len-nb: gparted goes into desktop, audio stuff into the audio blueprint
<smartboyhw> zequence, eh we don't 've gparted?
<zequence> smartboyhw: Apparently not
<Len-nb> It is in live but not installed
<smartboyhw> zequence, :O
<smartboyhw> That would be a simple seed change I think
<Len-nb> yes
<Len-nb> I will add it as a bluprint item first though to keep track
<smartboyhw> Len-nb, ok
<smartboyhw> It's extremely good to have gparted in
<zequence> Any changes to seeds need to be added to blueprints first
<zequence> At least the way we are working right now
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<Len-nb> Yes, the B.P. are a place anyone can look and know what is happening.
<Len-nb> It also shows people from outside studio we are doing something :)
<smartboyhw> Len-nb, :P:)
<smartboyhw> We ARE ALWAYS doing something
<smartboyhw> Len-nb, holstein zequence to cheer you guys up see http://people.ubuntu.com/~unit193/pisg/ubuntustudio.html
<smartboyhw> :P
<Len-nb> We know that.... ubuntu needs to know too
<smartboyhw> That link is great:p
<smartboyhw> Another lonely one was zequence, who managed to hit 57 times.
<smartboyhw> Poor zequence LOL
<smartboyhw> zequence, changing your nick seriously affects your rankings...
<Len-nb> Ya I am in there three or four times too.
<smartboyhw> Len-nb, two times at least for me
<smartboyhw> One for telling people actions:O
<smartboyhw> now wait a minute
<smartboyhw> Nice opers here, no one got kicked!
<smartboyhw> :O
<smartboyhw> WE HAVE A CLEAN RECORD!
<smartboyhw> Damn it I'm almost making it to top 25 of http://people.ubuntu.com/~unit193/pisg/ubuntu-irc.html (What the?)
<zequence> smartboyhw: Maybe that is a sign of that you should be doing more homework, and not spending so much time on IRC ;)
<smartboyhw> zequence, I do spend time on homework and revision...
<smartboyhw> zequence, I'm top 6 out of 186 people in my Form....
<smartboyhw> This sentence is rather EXTREMELY GOOD
<smartboyhw> jono has quite a potty mouth. 0.3% words were foul language. 
<smartboyhw> :P
<smartboyhw> From #ubuntu-news
<smartboyhw> zequence, what's your gmail address again?:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: my email address is zequence@mousike.me
<zequence> I have a couple of gmail addresses, but I don't use them for personal mail
<smartboyhw> zequence, you have one for GTalk in your wiki...
 * smartboyhw searches
<Len-nb> zequence, just added everything I could think of just now to the BPs
<madeinkobaia> For those who're still on board...hello : )
<len-1304> Hello
<len-1304> I'm off and on
<madeinkobaia> Hi Len, so you're switchin' ; )
<Len-nb> Ya going bowling with the family for a bit.
<madeinkobaia> Wow great. See you Len. : )
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-04-28
<micahg> zequence: I assume that the kernel team is still reviewing your uploads?  I'm happy to sponsor packages you prepare, but they still need sponsorship until you apply to the DMB for upload rights
<zequence> micahg: Yes, apw always checks them before uploading them, I guess he checks the changelog and diff
<smartboyhw_> Hello zequence, how are ya?
<zequence> smartboyhw_: Fine. A little annoyed with weathe reporters, as they can't seem to make up their minds
<smartboyhw_> zequence: LOL. Our obversatory isn't usually accurate as well.
<smartboyhw_> zequence: You're a Swedish right? How often do you go to IKEA?
<zequence> smartboyhw_: Only if I need to buy cheap furniture
<zequence> nowadays you can find IKEA just about anywhere
<zequence> I live in Sweden, but I'm not Swedish
<zequence> I'm Finnish
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Oh. In HK IKEA is VERY popular. 
<smartboyhw_> zequence: You should go back to Finland and visit astraljava;P
<smartboyhw_> And probably knome
<zequence> Yeah, that would be fun. I should also visit my grand mother
<smartboyhw_> zequence: :)
<zequence> She's living in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savonia_%28historical_province%29
<smartboyhw_> zequence, don't give me Finnish history to study:P
<smartboyhw_> Nor Swedish
<zequence> It's not really history, as the region still exists
<zequence> Just like in any country, you have different regions
<zequence> This is called Savonia
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Or rather, don't give me Finnish Geography to read
<zequence> smartboyhw_: No need to be rude
<smartboyhw_> zequence: I'm not rude.
<smartboyhw_> Just that my Geography isn't as good as science subjects 
<smartboyhw_> And our History teacher just doesn't seem to be able to control our class (every class in fact
<zequence> That's too bad. Science will only teach you how to count. History will teach you why to count
<smartboyhw_> zequence: â¦
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Science is good for me :P
 * smartboyhw needs to beat his classmates into pieces...
<smartboyhw> zequence: I came to think of it, between October 2013 and January 2014 you will be maintaining 4 kernels:O
<smartboyhw> Add oil
<smartboyhw> Hello!
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : Hi : )
<smartboyhw> Hey madeinkobaia
<madeinkobaia> :)
<smartboyhw> All: The Saucy Salamander archive is open!
<smartboyhw_> Hello DarkEra
<DarkEra> hi smartboyhw_ 
<smartboyhw> zequence: I renamed the SReleaseSchedule wiki page to SaucyReleaseSchedule and pointed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DevelopmentReleaseSchedule at it
<micahg> zequence: I'd like to see you apply for Studio upload rights this cycle, but you'd probably need to do a bit more with the general packageset
 * smartboyhw agrees with micahg
<smartboyhw> zequence: Become a full-fledged developer:)
<micahg> upload rights are not a barrier to contribution
<smartboyhw> micahg: I do think that so-called "Ubuntu Developers" should be called "Ubuntu uploaders" or sth like that
<smartboyhw> Of course upload rights wasn't a barrier
<zequence> micahg: What's required? Becoming a MOTU?
<micahg> zequence: no, just a packageset uplaoder for ubuntustudio
<micahg> http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/saucy/ubuntustudio
<micahg> hrm, automake in a flavor packageset seems wrong..
<zequence> :)
<zequence> micahg: So, how do I go about to apply for it?
<micahg> it's becuase isdntools is out of sync...
<micahg> zequence: well, first you need experience working with the packageset, AFAIK, you've just been working on the kernel and the ubuntustudio-* packages
<micahg> so, I'd suggest working on merges/updates for some of the packageset to show you're familiar with Debian packaging
<micahg> open merges are here: https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html , you can ask the person who touched it last (as listed) if they mind you doing the merge, then you just get it sponsored when you're done'
<micahg> that's all of universe (there's a multiverse page as well)
<micahg> so, you'll need to just pick the studio packages (well, you can work on whatever you want, but studio packages will help for studio more than others)
<zequence> micahg: Ok. Thanks. I'll get busy doing that this cycle than.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-04-23
<OvenWerk1> Dual monitor quirk... The login screen figures out there are two monitors and only puts the login dialog on the primary screen, however, the background graphic from the primary display is used on both displays instead of putting the graphic from the secondary display there.
<OvenWerk1> I am guessing lightdm doesn't have a way of putting different files on each?
<zequence> OvenWerk1: No idea, but I'm sure we haven't put much thought into that
<elfy> zequence: there is a new install testcase - specific to you - includes the extra step you have 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-04-24
<OvenWerk1> xequence: Welcoome the unicorn...
<xequence> OvenWerk1: that might be an expression I'm unfamiliar with :)
<OvenWerk1> < knome> 14.10 Utopic Unicorn
<xequence> OvenWerk1 ah. So, the gates ate open then? 
<xequence> Are*
<xequence> .. For development
<OvenWerk1> I don't know, but it doesn't matter that much... planning first
<OvenWerk1> I upgraded my 13.10 to 14.04 and now have two clocks and two power indicators :P
<xequence> I was supposed to start organizing that already a couple of weeks ago, but won't have time muck until Monday the earliest
<xequence> You probably have unity-control-center installed from a previous update
<xequence> Upgrading is simply not to be recommended for this release
<xequence> Inclusion of unity-control-center was a mistake that has been fixed since
<xequence> Or, perhaps you have both gtk2 and gtk3 indicators? 
<OvenWerk1> could be
<xequence> If so, the gtk3 equivalent should be made to replace the gtk2 version
<OvenWerk1> the gtk3 version is better. It allows both left and right click.
<xequence> Since you have two clocks, you should have unity-control-center installed
<OvenWerk1> I will try removing it.
<xequence> It depends on gnome-control-center
<OvenWerk1> I have the gnome version but not the unity version
<xequence> Wonder how that came about then :)
<xequence> Can't check anything right now. Perhaps it became a dependency to something that we don't have anymore, but was not repaved by the upgrade. 
<xequence> Replaced*
<xequence> Or, removed
<OvenWerk1> It may be something I was experimenting with
<OvenWerk1> (when I was trying to get colour correct stuff to work)
<OvenWerk1> Hmm the unity version was there too.
<OvenWerk1> It didn't show when I searched for it in synaptic.
<OvenWerk1> But it showed up when I tried to remove something else.
<OvenWerk1> Removing it did not help, I am noticing I have yet another monitor setup program that has moved in  :P  So I think I will back up my home dir. and reinstall.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-04-25
<aleb> Hi, I understand UbuntuStudio is a Ubuntu version, then you guys are busy more with Ubuntu than UbuntuStudio? Or is there a lot of work for UbuntuStudio specifically (what)? I'm just curious. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-04-26
<OvenWerk1> aleb: Ubuntustudio is the only stuff I play with right now. But it is a hobby. In other words I have very limited time to spend on it.
<OvenWerk1> Nobody is paid to take care of ubuntustudio
<OvenWerk1> It is a community effort and the community is not overly large.
<zequence> aleb: Improving Ubuntu Studio means improving Ubuntu, Debian and further also the applications we use, since we derive from all of those
<zequence> Most of the work we do is directly involving Ubuntu Studio though
<jomarcoelho> if anybody is wanting for help for anything at ubuntu, just say.
<zequence> jomarcoelho: You are offering to help develop Ubuntu Studio?
<aleb> I'm a Pitivi developer and I noticed http://ubuntustudio.org/contribute/ - Please tell me if you have suggestions about how I can contribute..
<aleb> I thought to ask here since you guys are more interested in multimedia apps
<zequence> aleb: We are always looking for developers, and right now, we don't really have anyone involved who is knowledgable in areas outside of audio, in which case your help would be greatly appreciated
<zequence> aleb: There are two goals with Ubuntu Studio. 1: to make both Debian and Ubuntu great for multimedia content production (we get most of our packages directly from Debian) 2: to make the Ubuntu Studio installer/live ISO a great showcase and tool
<zequence> The less customization we need to do, the better. So, we aren't strictly a custom distro for multimedia production, even though that can be one of the aspects of what we do too
<aleb> ok, if you need assistance with Pitivi, anything, please tell me
<zequence> aleb: We're just about to start a new cycle of development. Discussion will be held in the mail list, so please make sure to subscribe to it https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
<zequence> Just join in once we get going with that
<aleb> ok, I subscribed
<aleb> BTW, we are pushing to launch 1.0, meaning to make the app very stable and have a testing framework, I hope we'll have very good news in a few months :)
<elfy> zequence: hi, did you see my ping a few days ago re an install testcase for you?
<zequence> elfy: Ah, yes. Didn't have time to check that up.
<zequence> elfy: Where can I find the testcases, I seem to remember there was a bzr branch for those
<elfy> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/files
<zequence> aleb: Once it has been packaged for Debian, we should get it automatically (if it's done within the next few months) - later, we can backport it to 14.04 as well
<elfy> the new studio testcase is #1639
<zequence> elfy: Thanks. I'll have a look.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-04-20
<OvenWerks> zequence: I tried both 32 and 64 bit. In both cases I was unable to boot non-uefi... in the 32 bit case it let me boot the 32 bit but gave me the grub menu from sda... and in 64bit it did boot, but I have no mouse either booting to live or install.
<OvenWerks> The mouse works fine in 14.04
<OvenWerks> Going to the install boot gives a stock xfce screen.
<OvenWerks> Ahhh, It could be because the USB mouse is going through a USB to ps2 converter.
<astraljava> zequence: I can try, but seeing as a leaner distro gave me hell, I'm looking into trying to find 6 hours of uninterrupted time, unless I find the culprit for the sluggishness. I'll let you know, but I did check that all the required cases were reported.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Yea, the usb mouse should work. If the touchpad doesn't that could be a problem with drivers. Some require non-free in order to fully function
<zequence> As for UEFI, in my experience a lot of these new UEFI laptops have very different implementations
<zequence> I have a problem booting UEFI mode on this laptop. Everything works with a fully free system (debian, without non-free), but UEFI boot does not work. Using legacy boot
<zequence> astraljava: Don't spend too much time on it :).
<astraljava> zequence: Nah. :) Otherwise the system seems to function without much problems (notwithstanding the GPU overheating), so I'm just gonna chulk it up to vbox incompatibility if it doesn't clear out quickly.
<astraljava> zequence: elfy suggested checking kvm out, though. Will look into that.
<zequence> astraljava: Don't think that will make things easier tbh
<zequence> I just tried it a couple of days ago, and on this laptop - which is modern, but really basic, I can barely use it
<zequence> vBox works a lot better
<zequence> astraljava: Sure you have enough RAM?
<zequence> The vbox will use the RAM you specify, and if that exceeds what is available, you get SWAP slowness
<zequence> Also, make sure the hard drive is at least 10GB. Not sure actually what Ubuntu Studio requires. 8GB is not ebough
<zequence> I usually go with 20GB
<zequence> This laptop has a dual core, modern celeron processor. The GPU is modern, which makes the computer seem fairly normal. 4GB Ram
<zequence> I can do one thing at the time so that I don't loose my mind.
<astraljava> Oh ok, that's good to know. I think I should have had enough RAM for the operation, but I'll check again tonight.
<DalekSec> zequence: I presume you saw 'Packaging ardour 4.0' in pkg-multimedia?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-04-21
<OvenWerks> zequence: after installing with no visible mouse, the mouse is fine in the installed version.
<OvenWerks> I guess it always has, but I am noticing for the first time that qjackctl looks tk/tcl ish  :) It is nice that the Interface dropdown in qjackctl only has one now. It is much less confusing.
<OvenWerks> It is nice that even though I booted in uefi, I was able to install with out.
<OvenWerks> I don't think that was possible before. I still can't boot the 32 bit version at all. I select it and the sda grub gets displayed instead of the ISO one.
<OvenWerks> US-controls doesn't do anything (other than an error message)
<OvenWerks> Audio works fine, video stuff seems to work. Everything I tried works. I have not had any luck with the 32bit version though. I couldn't get it to boot on my netbook either.
<OvenWerks> So the installed version seems to be fine, booting has issues for the ISOs themselves. and the live session has an invisible mouse.
<zequence> DalekSec: Nice
<zequence> OvenWerks: I still haven't update -controls. HAd worked on it for a bit, but lost all my work a couple of months ago
<zequence> Started from scratch just recently
<DalekSec> Ouch.
<zequence> Yeah, you need to watch which drive you write new partition tables to :P
<zequence> If you accidentallt do over write the partition table of the drive you are using, I've found it will work for as long as the drive is mounted.
<zequence> I just didn't realize I had, so I went and rebooted.
<DalekSec> In git now at least?
<zequence> I have my own personal branch, until I get the structure sorted out
<astraljava> zequence: I ran the Xubuntu install last night, clocked in bit over an hour. I'll take your suggestions into account and try the Studio install this evening. 
<astraljava> Oh wow! Cool wallpaper!
<OvenWerks> Seems to have been a new spin since last night.
<astraljava> Yep, fortunately figured it out before testing. Oh well, actually I had downloaded the amd64 image, so I needed to get a new one anyway (for vbox).
<DalekSec> zsync?
<astraljava> DalekSec: I suppose it works, if you have the correct image to begin with.
<DalekSec> astraljava: Well, you can zsync from flavor to flavor too of course.
<astraljava> How do I ensure that jack starts in real time? Is it the RT in the console, on yellow?
<astraljava> DalekSec: I guess so, didn't think of that. :)
<OvenWerks> astraljava: I generally look in the messages dialog to see that it tried to start RT (should be default) and there is no error in starting rt and memlock.
<astraljava> OvenWerks: There are many errors, such as:
<astraljava> Wed Apr 22 02:26:39 2015: ERROR: JackEngine::XRun: client = PulseAudio JACK
<astraljava> Source was not finished, state = Running
<astraljava> Wed Apr 22 02:26:39 2015: ERROR: JackAudioDriver::ProcessGraphAsyncMaster:
<astraljava> Process error
<astraljava> But I managed to hear Hydrogen generating drum sounds.
<astraljava> Cannot get desktop sounds to work, however. 
<astraljava> That might be just because it's running in vbox.
<astraljava> It's almost 3 in the morning, can't be bothered to fight with it more without a few hours of sleep in between. :)
<OvenWerks> astraljava: xruns would be expected in a vbox yes.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-04-22
<OvenWerks> new iso still has invisible mouse pointer in live ISO for me. 32 bit will still not boot. 64bit iso will not boot as non-uefi still.
<zequence> astraljava: You need to set pulseaudio to use jack as the output in order to hear the desktop audio
<zequence> Use the largest buffer in order to get no xruns on vbox
<zequence> I'll do some testing this evening. Will also check on real machines, both UEFI and non-UEFI
<astraljava> zequence: I'll have to look into that, it wasn't obvious to me what should have been changed last night, but then again I was more than half-asleep already. :)
<astraljava> I'll try again today.
<astraljava> I'm fine with the xruns, as that's only a test install. I did hear audio, so I could verify it worked.
<OvenWerks> I have yet to get a 32 bit ISO to boot on any machine.
<astraljava> OvenWerks: Real hardware and/or virtual?
<OvenWerks> astraljava: real
<OvenWerks> I'm going to check it on a few more just now.I also want to check the 64 on a non-uefi machine.
<OvenWerks> On a non-uefi system I can not boot period.
<elfy> OvenWerks: is that with a new copy of the image? 
<OvenWerks> how new?
<OvenWerks> I have downloaded twice
<elfy> last few hours new
<OvenWerks> no
<elfy> 2 secs
<OvenWerks> Is this supposed to be fixed then?
<elfy> bunch of stuff was looked at 
<OvenWerks> k' I will download again the 32 + 64 bit isos
<elfy> 12:50 (UTC I would suspect)
<elfy> vbox will likely prove to be an issue
<OvenWerks> We have 3 or 4 computers with no uefi bios that these images will not work on at all.
<OvenWerks> I am using HW
<elfy> k
<elfy> grabbing the 32bit I can at least check it boots and installs 
<OvenWerks> elfy: I have also had a problem with the live sessions not showing the mouse... I can see the effect of a mouse hovering over things and the r/l click works.
<OvenWerks> installed it is ok
<elfy> mmk
<elfy> I'll see on hardware 
<OvenWerks> I have tried various themes etc
<OvenWerks> zsync shows 92%... ya new ISO :)
<OvenWerks> elfy: I see that the ubuntu help page is recomending dd over the startup disk creator. would that be my problem?
<elfy> OvenWerks: shouldn't be
<elfy> afaik disks uses dd
<OvenWerks> Can't, dd would make a partition the same size as the ISO and not allow persistance
<elfy> oh my
<elfy> not reading for the sun in my glasses
<OvenWerks> I see this "[This is the situation now with the new Ubuntu 14.10 version] Win32DiskImager is particularly good for pre-release testing and new releases, when the standard tools like Startup Disk Creator might not be ready (if the configuration of the booting has been changed since the previous release). "
<OvenWerks> on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
<elfy> I read startup disk as disks - which is what I recommend currently :D
<OvenWerks> wrong quote..."[This is the situation now with the new Ubuntu 14.10 version] mkusb is particularly good for pre-release testing and new releases, when the standard tools like Startup Disk Creator might not be ready (if the configuration of the booting has been changed since the previous release). "
<OvenWerks> I am running the LTS
<elfy> mkusb is definitely a front end to DD 
<OvenWerks> Yes
<OvenWerks> I will try dd on the next DLs and if they work, try again with the system tool
<OvenWerks> It seems the system tool on 14.04 is broken
<elfy> OvenWerks: I did a bunch fo tests with tools for usb 
<elfy> mostly I remember that gnome-disks just worked 
<OvenWerks> elfy: in my opinion, the iso should not be released untill the system tool that ships with 14.04/14.10 has been fixed/released.
<elfy> then it won't be released 
<elfy> I might be listed as on the release team - but only so I can work tracker for -studio :)
<OvenWerks> even if upgrading it meant a new tool was pulled in to replace it.
<elfy> OvenWerks: ok booted 32bit to livesession - no uefi on that laptop
<OvenWerks> I am thinking this must be the case for all ubuntu's though
<OvenWerks> Anyway I am printing the 64bit to my usb stick with dd. I will see how that works
<elfy> OvenWerks: tools and booting is generally common, studio would also obviously get affected by Xubuntu specific issues to probably 
<elfy> cvan't do more than boot the live session on laptop 
<OvenWerks> We will have to make sure the download page bluntly says the system tool will not work, here is the new instructions.
<OvenWerks> Studio is treating this as a in-progress release. All of these things will need to be fixed for next LTS
<OvenWerks> elfy: Did your mouse work ok?
<elfy> yep
<OvenWerks> good
<OvenWerks> I will try live on three machines here and full install on one
<OvenWerks> elfy: using dd on the 64bit ISO allowed me to boot on the older non-uefi machine.
<elfy> ok
<OvenWerks> zequence: https://ubuntustudio.org/download/ should include a note to _not_ use Startup Disk Creator in the system menu. The one in 14.04 does not support newer ISO versions.
<len1504> Installing 32 bit ISO. So far everything is working for me. The ALSA driver for USB1.1 Audio devices seems much better than what my wife's computer has now. I think next time I load her system I will do xfce instead of kde. The graphics seem snappier too even though the GPU (atom based MB) is not well supported.
<len1504> The AC97 audio on the old P4 has lots of xruns at 64/3 but seems to work ok. The atom is fine with 64/2. (even streaming from Pulse)
<len1504> reboot
<len64> installing 64bit version.
<len64> Things I have noticed... the 32bit ISO only shows up as non-uefi, but the 64bit ISO shows up as both (in my bios boot selector).
<len64> I am guessing the uefi is new enough that there are no 32bit boards with it? What of the person who still wants 32bit for compatibility reasons? Is that still an issue with wine for example?
<len64> BTW, at boot we end up at lightdm with a pure white (grey?) screen. It is not obvious this is a scrren saver and the user should click somewhere. (pressing a key on the KB does not seem to work)
<len64> Having no screen saver makes more sense to me... something to fix in 15.10.
<len64> reboot
<OvenWerks> The version of Ardour in the new iso should be sru/backported to LTS as the one in LTS has bugs that could result in lost files. If it is two releases till next LTS Ardour4 may even be an option.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-04-23
<zequence> OvenWerks: 32bit OS can not be booted with UEFI
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'll add a comment about the startup usb creator
<zequence> UEFI is strictly 64bit only
<zequence> We should see about changing the screensaver. Seems it's old and not well maintained
<zequence> May even be a security risc
<zequence> Sorry, I had no time to do testing yesterday
<zequence> Will test the 32bit ISO now
<astraljava> zequence: Is it the xscreensaver? It's easily changed as Xubuntu sports light-locker.
<astraljava> Just change the seeds.
<astraljava> IIRC
<OvenWerks> elfy: marking test cases for vivid final shows up as daily. That is I went to the final page, then selected our ISO and the page it goes to says daily.
<OvenWerks> Is this normal/ok?
<elfy> same for us 
<elfy> as long as you start in the right place - result will be in the right place
<OvenWerks> ok thanks
<elfy> yea - the one I reported yesterday is there
 * elfy is already thinking about wibbly whinocewos 
<OvenWerks> Not the x-ray?
<elfy> not yet - need to try and increase testing for that one 
<OvenWerks> elfy: I have not heard anything about MIR for a long time... whatever happened to that?
<elfy> it's still there afaik
<elfy> as it's not affecting us yet I've not taken much notice
 * OvenWerks is off to work...
<elfy> cya 
<elfy> zequence: you about to mark images ready if they ping ? 
<zequence> elfy: Just did
<elfy> good, they'll not ask me then :p
<zequence> elfy: Seems like our images were released already though
<zequence> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/15.04/release/
<elfy> seems so
<zequence> I've prepared release notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
<zequence> If someone wants to change or add something, please go ahead
<zequence> Also, there's a draft for the release announcement at our web page
<zequence> Our download page is already updated
<zequence> I'll send out the announcement as soon as we get the go ahead
<zequence> (or as soon as I'm aware of it)
<astraljava> Whee! Congrats on the release!
<zequence> Placed an order on the bq Ubuntu phone. Should arrive within the week
<OvenWerks> zequence: keep us posted on the phone. Android does not have usable latency for audio work.
<DalekSec> zequence: Would you like the honors of #ubuntustudio's topic update?
<zequence> DalekSec: I don't remember how to do that, so if someone else has the rights I'd rather not just now
<OvenWerks> holstein: ^^^
<zequence> OvenWerks: From what I understand, bq does the kernel for that phone. Will be interesting to see how it performs
<zequence> And, also - how easy is it to make changes?
<OvenWerks> I would guess they have to do at least some.
<OvenWerks> to the topic? Rewrite the whole topic with /topic after giving oneself rights
<OvenWerks> Using copy paste from the old to new could save some of the work.
<zequence> I'll forget the details by the time I need to do it again.
<zequence> :)
<DalekSec> zequence: With irssi, /topic <tab>  Op yourself first, or after doing the aforementioned, prefix the topic with /msg chanserv topic #ubuntustudio TOPIC HERE
<DalekSec> OvenWerks: Already snagged it.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I am going to try starting with a xubuntu-core ISO and see how much work it is to make Studio out of it.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-04-24
<bluesabre> hello friends :)
<DalekSec> And non-friends?
<bluesabre> not too many of those, I'd hope
<zequence> bluesabre: Hi
<zequence> OvenWerks: Been a while since I was working on that, so I don't actually remember much
<zequence> I'm thinking we should try creating a simple meta that installs another DE, and our settings on top of it
<zequence> Add it to a PPA
<astraljava> Hey all. So what plans for the next cycle? :)
<DalekSec> zequence: Wouldn't you rather have whatever flavor figure out the DE defaults, and you just layer Studio stuff atop of that?
<zequence> DalekSec: Yep. That has been the plan for a while, but we've not been very active with it.
<zequence> astraljava: I'll start working on that this weekend
<zequence> We have stuff from before that is still in the works
<zequence> Better start with that, and see which way to go from there
<astraljava> zequence: True. What are your thoughts on the LTS status?
<zequence> astraljava: How do you mean?
 * zequence is travelling and will loose connectivity now and again
<zequence> We already decided a while back not to put too much effort on promoting the non-LTS releases
<zequence> One might as well think of us only developing LTS releases
<zequence> All though each release needs to be functional of course
<astraljava> zequence: I mean that how much new development are you willing to push in contrast to maintaining a stable upcoming LTS release.
<zequence> astraljava: We do what we have time for. One thing at the time :)
<astraljava> Hehe, well that much is true. And has always been with Studio especially. :D
<astraljava> Not exactly devs in abundance. :p
<zequence> Last cycle was propbably the least active ever. 
<astraljava> Right, but still you managed. That's quite impressive!
<zequence> I didn't have to do much. I keep updating linux-lowlatency every three weeks, which I will be quitting now
<zequence> The most work I did was probably at the end, when I realized our meta and seed setup was broken
<zequence> Come to think of that, I still have one last linux-lowlatency update which I have neglected :P
<astraljava> So how exactly is the kernel situation going to be handled in the future?
<zequence> linux-lowlatency no longer has a patch, so there was no problem merging the source with -generic
<zequence> There's just a config diff. We maintain that, but we don't need to do any building or testing of the lowlatency kernel, other than what we do for our own sake
<zequence> i.e., making sure it's doing what it is supposed to now and again
<zequence> I've kept maintaining the precise kernel, which still has a patch
<zequence> The patch allows the use of rtirq
<zequence> Nowadays, this can be done using a config
<astraljava> Ok great! Thanks for the clarification.
<cub> zequence, I saw about making videos. It would be about time. :D I'll start installing and setting up my workstation soon enough
<millerthegorilla> does anyone know if I can upgrade xfce to 4.12 if I install the lts 14.0.4
<cub> millerthegorilla, http://www.webupd8.org/2015/03/install-xfce-412-in-xubuntu-1404-or.html
<cub> should be the same procedure in Ubuntu Studio
<cub> exit
<cub> oops wrong window. :D
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-04-25
<OvenWerks> zequence: Installed xubuntu-core for a look see. Just installing our Audio meta and menu stub.
<OvenWerks> It looks like it could be a good starting place, but we may want to add a "utilities" meta for tools we keep that are not part of any of the work flows. parted, gedit, taskmanager, synaptic, whatever.
<zequence> I'm thinking either that, or lubuntu-core could be a nice foundation for a formal Ubuntu Studio DE setup
<OvenWerks> zequence: lubuntu-core would be harder to work with. In my tests of dropping our metas on top of different DEs lxde was more work to get working.
<OvenWerks> xfce also has a more "modern" look and feel.
<OvenWerks> zequence: lxde will be getting changed to qt libs (in progress) so the time to use that would be after all that work is done.
<OvenWerks> zequence: Also, I think xfce is still the closest thing to gnome 2.
<OvenWerks> lxde feels to me like half way between fvwm and gnome2.
<zequence> gnome2 for me is not relevant. Just that it works. What is hard to get working? The menu?
<OvenWerks> The menu is not really any harder to make work.
<OvenWerks> A new app takes longer to show up on the menu at all because the menu is(or was) updated by a separate app that dooes nt run all the time
<OvenWerks> There is a smothness to xfce that is not there in lxde.
<OvenWerks> gnome2 like is not an issue no, it is the smoothness of use I was talking about.
<OvenWerks> lxde has a focus on being small, and for that something(s) have to be given up.
<OvenWerks> lxde shines in less than 1Gram systems, but in our case our apps generally demand more than that anyway.
<OvenWerks> The de in our case is not a big part of what is in memory or on disk.
<OvenWerks> zequence: so unless a new DE is easier to work with for the user, I would not go that way.
<zequence> OvenWerks: If we offer all the other DEs, much of your arguments are already covered
<zequence> And could be there is no need for a default DE at all
<astraljava> zequence: What's the general consensus about how we would be "offering" the DEs? Are we talking about the -desktop packages?
<OvenWerks> astraljava: in most cases a desktop package is not needed/wanted
<OvenWerks> Take the case where the user already has their desktop the way they want it, we don't want to/ mess with it
<OvenWerks> Once the user has logged in once after install and then adds Studio to the mix... their desktop is already set and any default changes we would make would have no effect anyway.
<astraljava> OvenWerks: Oh ok, so we're talking about a reverse process here. Thanks, got it. :)
<OvenWerks> zequence: yes, Te user can choose which they like. For our main ISO (if we had one) it needs to be polished/up to date looking, but at the same time not get in the users way.
<OvenWerks> That is function well on systems a little older (3 to 5 years not worrying about 10 years)
<OvenWerks> astraljava: There are two scenerios, 1) Studio is part of the DEs install and 2) instaling Studio after wards.
<OvenWerks> astraljava: Installing Studio afterwards is likely to be done first because it is a lot less work. (mostly there now)
<OvenWerks> In general, DEs are changing away from being menu based, or at least what menu is left is less capable.
<zequence> OvenWerks: What do you mean by 1)? Which DE?
<OvenWerks> xfce and KDE still have a good "classic" menu available if the user wants it, but Unity and gnome session (or is it screen) tht is not the case.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I mean making the DE a choice at install time
<zequence> You can add a classic meny to Gnome pretty easily, if you want it though
<OvenWerks> Yes but the classic menu on gnome does not handle multilevel menus like ours
<OvenWerks> (last I looked)
<zequence> I'm thinking we ship one DE on our ISO, but adjust our installer so that the user can choose to install other DEs over the internet, replacing our default choice
<OvenWerks> Yes, that was what I thought when I described 1 above
<OvenWerks> In that we are on the same/ page :)
<OvenWerks> But having a classic menu option is not really the issue, the main thing is that people are moving away from the menu thing and I think Studio needs to rethink how we present our big chunk of applications in a menuless world.
<OvenWerks> It seems having a freedesktop menu splice does not reall work well in the DE world. The xdg standarrds are not well supported/broken/not going to be fixed.
 * OvenWerks has filed bug reports for all the broken ones and seen them all shoved aside.
<zequence> That is why I was working on the categories thing about a year ago
<OvenWerks> zequence: my latest thought is back to the workflow applet
<OvenWerks> zequence: I agree.
<zequence> One should be able to easily find applications by using simple search terms
<OvenWerks> a workflow applet that sits in systray would work the same in all DEs
<OvenWerks> Finding an app is one thing, knowing what you have is another
<zequence> IT's not hard to do that either on any DE
<zequence> On Unity it is quite simple to filter all of your applications by using categories
<OvenWerks> Almost all DEs now have an app search yes.
<zequence> Gnome has simplified by just showing all applications
<OvenWerks> Sounds adroidish
<zequence> In this respect Gnome is harder
<zequence> Yes
<OvenWerks> :P
<zequence> I'm thinking it is better to show what tools to use for which use by documentation and videos, rather then using DE tools
<zequence> All though, I'm quite fond of the idea of a workflow app too
<zequence> I'm actually working on -controls right now
<zequence> Seems I always do when sitting in a train
<OvenWerks> A workflow app is something for the new user mostly... though I would tend to use it as a menu if the DE didn't have one ;)
<zequence> I could imagine using a workflow application myself, if it was smart enough
<OvenWerks> would you see that as part of a controls app or separate.
<zequence> Separate. Controls is just for the core functions
<OvenWerks> I personally would see it as two systray apps
<OvenWerks> But then I would see controls as two parts: operational and setup
<zequence> If it's just for replacing a menu, then it's in my view a menu, be it in the systray or elsewhere
<OvenWerks> Making it smarter than just a menu would be nice, but I can't think how right now.
<zequence> -controls has a menu for controlling jack and pulse, plus shortcuts for opening other things, like mixers and also "settings"
<zequence> The settings application will have a separate starter, but you'll be able to open it from the controls systray menu
<zequence> My first version will just be a simple settings application. No systray menu
<OvenWerks> Ok that sounds good.
<zequence> Right now I've been trying to figure out a good way for analyzing PAM settings
<zequence> The idea is the settings application will be able to remove duplicate bad settings from any relevant file
<OvenWerks> settings has to be there for adding Studio metas to already installed DEs
<zequence> I'm thinking we could add a shortcut for the meta installer in the menu
<zequence> I'm going to be using a new group for rt settings. audio is not to be used in the future, so I'll use something like jackuser instead
<OvenWerks> zequence: I would like to see jackd run from login as default sound device. have pulse feed jack by default. I have been doing this on bth my Studio machine and my wifes desktop for over a year now
<zequence> We could add that to the audio-core meta
<OvenWerks> It works well
<OvenWerks> Pulse can be turned "off" by unloading the pa-jack bridge. latency can be changed on the fly so at login latency can be long and shortened for lowatency work. I set things up so that pa turns off below certain latencies.
<OvenWerks> With using the bridge removal technique, pa switches to dummy sink and all of the desktop apps can still work without hanging, but no sounds of course :)
<holstein> i have a general question about that.. what about a user with a USB audio device?
<holstein> would it address the labeling? etc? would it "just work" for them?
<OvenWerks> My wife uses a USB device, no problem
<holstein> i think removing jack from the equation is a good move
<OvenWerks> The only place it may be a problem is plugging and unplugging
<holstein> having it already running is a nice way to do that.. if it makes it easier..
<holstein> OvenWerks: oh.. that makes sense..
<OvenWerks> In my opinion a USB audio iF should be plugged in from before boot.
<zequence> To get plug and play, someone will need to create a server for restarting jack
<OvenWerks> jack does not need to be restarted
<zequence> To change IF
<holstein> OvenWerks: i like that as well, its just that, its not the "norm" for users coming from other platforms.. not that that need to be a consideration.. its just largely why folks dont adopt
<OvenWerks> That can be done with jack_control
<holstein> they have something that worked a certain way, and they want the *exact* same work flow, for no $$.. there may be little to do to address that, anyway
<OvenWerks> jack_control can change IF without stopping
<holstein> jack running from boot is personally something im not interested in, but, if i were just coming to the platform, i would appreciate it, and i think its a great idea
<zequence> jackdbus does not stop, but it won't change IF automatically
<OvenWerks> holstein: not from boot, from login
<zequence> Also, will it crash?
<holstein> well, boot, login.. you know what i mean
<holstein> for an ubuntustudio user, they likely dont boot without logging in..
<OvenWerks> I have changed lots of things with out first stopping jackdbus.
<zequence> USB devices are meant to be plug and play, so you can't really blame someone for using them as such
<holstein> yeah.. its implied about USB hardware that you can remove them
<OvenWerks> Yes, that is true. USB will get plugged in and out.
<OvenWerks> same with FW
<holstein> but, even if we put that in some documentation, it wouldnt necessarily be noticed, or understood..
<OvenWerks> I have switched from alsa to net with no problem though
<holstein> could be a detraction.. "dont plug and play your plug and play device".. could be seen as a shortcoming
<OvenWerks> internally, I think jackdbus does do a restart.
<OvenWerks> PNP can still be done so long as the control app will scan for new devices. We should see how pa does that
<OvenWerks> holstein: I agree PnP still has to work, I just haven't taken the time/effort to make it so in my case.
<holstein> eh.. i dont know that its something that needs to be considered specifically
<holstein> i dont think it should hold up your work, for sure
<OvenWerks> jack_control is not well documented, there is no man page and jack_control --help/-h do not work
<zequence> would be nice if jack behaved like PA
<zequence> But, there is a slight problem with connections
<zequence> Going from 8ch to 2ch
<OvenWerks> yes.
<OvenWerks> As I said, I think when changing back end, jack is restarted internally and so all connections are reset.
<OvenWerks> I think also we need to have some sort of kill for it in case it hangs.
<OvenWerks> detecting a running jackd and being able to kill that also makes sense. (in my case I have chmod -x jackd)
<OvenWerks> I have had to actually kill jackdbus only a few times in the year and a half I have used things this way.
 * OvenWerks thinks all of them have been with the USB device
<OvenWerks> zequence: holstein I would like to disable the pulse alsa module so that pulse just acts as a desktop front end for jack.
<holstein> OvenWerks: sounds like a plan..
<zequence> OvenWerks: Doing that permanently would be bad, I think
<zequence> We need a dbus server of our own, or something else, that can disable/enable start/kill/stop stuff in the way you would want to
<zequence> Might actually be best to add all of that into a PA module
<zequence> Perhaps the one that already exists. Adding config options for it
<OvenWerks> zequence: Sounds like a plan. I hadn't thought of that, but KDE does that already so it is possible and yes the better way to go.
<OvenWerks> BTW I posted a quick overview of jack_control in the mail list.
<OvenWerks> zequence: for that matter we could incorperate the internals of jack_control into our own app as well. jack_control is a script I think anyway.
<zequence> It's a python script for controlling jack through dbus
<zequence> I've been using it as an example for a few things
<OvenWerks> zequence: I had forgotten there is a pactl (I think... something close) that does for PA what jack_control does for jackdbus. I do not know if it is a script as well or not. But it does seem to control just about everything as well.
<zequence> Not a script, and doesn't use dbus. But is similar, I suppose
<OvenWerks> zequence: pactl is the one I use to un/load module-jackdbus-detect. Almost everything PA does is as part of a module, so removing a module stops that functionality as well. The problem is there is by default an autoloader, so removing a module may see it just reload.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-04-26
<OvenWerks> zequence: starting with Xubuntu-core and then starting to add studio to it. jackd2 sure pulls a lot of other stuff in, but we would normally get it anyway.
<OvenWerks> I added the audio and kernel then started looking at our themes and desktop. I installed -backdrops... and none of those are current :) But they do go well with the default xubuntu theme. So I thought maybe the backdrop is in -look...
<OvenWerks> -look pulls in more stuff than we need if we are basing off xubuntu-core.
<OvenWerks> What is ubuntustudio-sounds? Do we use this? elementary-icon-theme... we could just as easy put our icon theme on top of the -Xfce-darker theme xubuntu uses. gnome-icon-theme-full? xubuntu uses the gnome default. Murrine-themes... I think we have been using greybird for 4 years now, maybe not pull this stuff in.
<OvenWerks> zequence: what I am saying is maybe we should base Studio more solidly on Xubuntu so that their testing covers almost everything besides our audio/video tweaks and metas.
<OvenWerks> I don't have a problem with extra wallpapers, but aligning our themes with xubuntu just makes sense. We have had more than one bad iso just based on theme changes. Really, take xubuntu and put our backdrop in and it changes the whole look. They have a corrected default applications menu that works with the Studio menu stub with no editting. Both in the applications menu as well as wisker... wisker just needs three more clicks to get at a
<OvenWerks> zequence: I think I will DL the full xubuntu and see if there is anything that needs to be taken out for our use. we may be better basing off of that.
<zequence> OvenWerks: We are supposed to make our stuff desktop agnostic, which goes against basing our stuff more closely on Xubuntu
<zequence> PA will autload modules that are set to be autoloaded in PA settings
<zequence> ubuntustudio-sounds is an old package from gnome2 days. It should be removed from the archive
<zequence> Theming should change at least each LTS. And we change at least the wallpaper. As for the DE theme, that will depend on the DE we are using. 
<zequence> My though is we should try to use a dark variant for theming, as it is the standard for multimedia production - especially video and graphics
<zequence> But, don't think there are good ones for all DEs.
<zequence> Gnome has a dark variant for Adwaita, which is not bad actually.
<zequence> Unity is only half-dark. The panels, but not the content
<zequence> Same with a few other themes
<zequence> astraljava: If you want to get up to speed with how we do planning nowadays, check out this page in the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/CoreTeamDocumentation
<zequence> I'm making blueprints for the X release (16.04). That is the end goal. For 15.10, we'll include whatever is finished, except for theming which I think we should not change until 16.04 (only the backdrop - if someone makes one for us)
<zequence> OvenWerks: About jack_control, it makes more sense to study the dbus implementation that jackdbus uses. Been a while since I was working on it, but you can look at the jack_control script for some clues.
<zequence> Also, you'll probably want to look up how dbus works.
<zequence> Basically, you can both control and get status changes from dbus, depending on what jackdbus is programmed to do
<zequence> One can find out the interface for jackdbus by talking to dbus
<zequence> I'm calling out for contributors on G+, fb and twitter today
<zequence> As well as the mail list
<elfy> zequence: I'll be about for testcases if that helps
<zequence> elfy: Alright, thanks
<elfy> if you intend to use them of course :)
<zequence> I'm still planning on writing some test cases. Would be more fun if someone was available to test them as well :)
<elfy> tell me about it ;)
<zequence> DalekSec: Anything special you would like to contribute with the coming one or two cycles?
<elfy> zequence: all I would say more at this point is that the decision to use them and then the bulk of that testcase work to be done in the next cycle, by the time LTS starts you'll have fun trying to get things done in time to use them
<zequence> elfy: I'm hoping we can get as much done within this cycle, so we can just relax and focus on polishing for the LTS
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TestingTeamPage/Testcases
<elfy> is where we got to 
<zequence> elfy: Yep. Thanks.
<elfy> I'll likely have more time during this coming cycle than the LTS one 
<elfy> just ping me - or send people my way if that helps
<zequence> elfy: Will do
<astraljava> zequence: Ok, will do. Thanks!
<OvenWerks> zequence: I was also talking about DE themes. We ship the murrina themes which we don't even use
<OvenWerks> I think there is only one icon in the icon theme too. so if we could add it on the fly having it depend on whatever the user is using... or make it's name unique enough to just add it to high color like we do with the rest.
<OvenWerks> zequence: what I am saying is that there seems to be a lot fo stuff we are shipping that we don't need to.
<OvenWerks> if we were to ship a DE theme, we have to make sure ti works with all the DEs.
<OvenWerks> This means it should work just as well with kde and unity.
<OvenWerks> If we can make our ISO easy, then we have more energy left for doing a DE agostic setup. 
<OvenWerks> zequence: Speaking of DE agnostic, I don't suppose it is possible (or makes sense) to use the ISO as a package repo for adding workflow packages to other DEs?
<zequence> OvenWerks: If we ever go back to having our own theme, then yes, it will need to support all DEs. 
<zequence> OvenWerks: I haven't paid much attention to the theming details as I'm not the one who has been involved in implementing them
<zequence> I have no idea about the last one.
<zequence> Problem with the last one is still RT privilege.
<zequence> (all though we could arrange that with a script in our audio-core meta
<OvenWerks> zequence: RT may be needed for video as well... though possibly only for those who use both video and audio anyway (which should probably be all of them)
<OvenWerks> zequence: is the Liquorix Kernel in debian http://liquorix.net/ any better than our lowlatency? Should we be trying to use something like it? Can we use it as is from the debian repo?
<OvenWerks> Actually it says it is compatible with ubuntu
<OvenWerks> Video meta should at least contain the availablility to put cpu in performance. Some users of laptops may want to preserve their battery at slower speed for some things, but I have talked with some people who say that performance mode makes a large difference in render speed.
<OvenWerks> Graphics may find the same.
<OvenWerks> zequence: under core-topic-x we need -installer. I don't know if it would be part of the DE-agnostic BP or in core itself. I can see it being used two ways 1) add more sw to our install 2) add Studio to another preinstalled DE.
<cub> zequence, I hoping to be around a lot more now for the next cycles. Should try to catch up and install 15.04. Hmm and Debian Jessie perhaps...
<zequence> OvenWerks: If you mean ubuntustudio-installer, that's under applications
<OvenWerks> zequence: it would be really nice to bring the GUI for ubiquity to the desktop.
<OvenWerks> ok, that is fine
<OvenWerks> -installer that we have is not very nice
<OvenWerks> (it also chokes on Jackd2 install right now)
<OvenWerks> The new installer has never been uploaded, but a) I don't know if it fixes this, b) the ubiquity code is much nicer so I don't want to spend time on it.
<OvenWerks> Ah, Applications makes sense now.
<OvenWerks> zequence: we will use the same bluprints for w as well as x?
<zequence> OvenWerks: Same blueprints, yes. We just do the same thing twice, until we have got all of our stuff in.
<OvenWerks> zequence: makes sense. It would be nice to have the main work done for w and refine for x. But more realisticly, anything we get done in w will be great. Movement at all will be great. (V has been very slow)
<OvenWerks> zequence: looking at -icon-theme there is literally only one icon in there that needs to be (or should be). That is distributor-logo.png (in a number of sizes). The rest can be a part of -menu where the rest are.
<OvenWerks> changing the index.theme to point at a DE specific theme would make this package work with any DE. I am not sure if this means we need to make 5 themes or if we can make just one theme based on the installed DE at install time.
<OvenWerks> In the same package we could have ubuntustudio-xfce, ubuntustudio-kde, etc. using the smae icons (symlink) with just a different index.theme that Inherits a reasonable DE specific icon theme.
<OvenWerks> Or, if there will be a default-settings package per DE, this could be dropped in there... I don't know what makes sense.
<zequence> We shoud use one theme for all, if possible
<zequence> The symlinks sounds good
<holstein> i was thinking, it may be ideal to clarify contributions.. and maybe the team roles
<holstein> if we can just pull in most or all of the desktop,etc, from xubuntu, which, would be a nice way to do it, since they are already doing that work, and doing it well.. 
<holstein> we could let folks know that contributing upstream to xubuntu would help US, and exactly how.. and not be duplicating efforts, hopefully
<holstein> and also, clarify what it is that this team is responsible for
<OvenWerks> holstein: I am actively working on bassing an ISO from xubuntu-core.
<elfy> OvenWerks: could be :D 
<OvenWerks> However, I am hoping that the work I do there will help with other DEs as well.
<holstein> it could be attractive on many levels.. support, etc
<OvenWerks> elfy: :)
<holstein> i like the idea of making sure things "just work" on other DE's.. as well
<OvenWerks> holstein: the little bit I have done with xubuntu-core just works.. the only thing being setting up RT permissions has to be done manually still. but ubuntustudio-controls will fix that.
<OvenWerks> kubuntu in the past has been the same.
<OvenWerks> lubuntu also has a broken menu file problem... bugged with fix attached but considered a non-problem "won't fix"
<OvenWerks> gnome3 has the same menu file bug and unity doesn't have a menu anyway really.
<OvenWerks> gnome doesn't reall have a menu unless one takes extra steps to add one as well.
<OvenWerks> Effectively, all tyhe DEs except maybe Lubuntu, are moving away from menus anyway.
<OvenWerks> KDE maintains the classic menu as well as a whisker-like menu, but also has a more unity/gnome/android like mode. This is fine for most computer uses, but Studio ships so many apps that we need to have some way of organizing the apps so the user a) knows what they have available b) knows what apps are apropriate for what tasks (audacity should not be used for tracking) c) doesn't have to scroll down forever looking for zita-at1.
 * OvenWerks wonders how hard writing an xfce panel aplet that host either whisker or the appmenu would be. This would allow switching between the two without removing one and installing the other.
<elfy> it really is only a small point I make here 
<elfy> and it acan wait 
<OvenWerks> elfy: :)
 * OvenWerks is off to play some music
<holstein> personally, i think we should also have a talk about the suggestion of *not* having a distro
<holstein> having more just the packages that you add to whatever distro you are using
<holstein> at the beginning of one of the cycles would be the best time to discuss this..
<holstein> i thought it was a great idea when someone proposed it, but, it was like 3 weeks before the release of one of the distros ;)
<zequence> As long as there's interest in maintaining an ISO, I think it will endure
<zequence> It's up to those who do the work
<zequence> Doesn't mean we should make Ubuntu Studio work easily on any flavor, which is exactly what we're planning to do now
<zequence> One doesn't replace the other. They can co-exist
<zequence> Sorry, I miswrote. Doesn't mean we shouldn't make Ubuntu Studio easily work on any flavor...
<zequence> holstein: Frankly, I'd like to see more ideas on what to do, rather on what not to do :)
<holstein> zequence: its not like that
<holstein> i seriously think its a constructive idea to consider
<holstein> covering adaptation into any DE, for example
<holstein> im not saying they cant coexsist, and as you are making perfectly clear, its your boat.. steer it as you please
<zequence> Didn't realize mythbuntu is only doing LTS releases
<holstein> i didnt realize it was an official flavor
<holstein> yeah.. "community supported add on"..
<zequence> It's an official flavor
<zequence> http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/flavours
<zequence> Ubuntu Mate is missing from that list. They just started out
<holstein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFlavors is where i read "community supported addon"
<holstein> its all "community supported".. so, whatever
<holstein> i havent looked at it in ages to know if they included something outside the repos..
<holstein> looks like they have a google sites page..
<holstein> i dont know anyone from that project AFAIK..
<zequence> Think they are pretty quiet on IRC
<zequence> 12k likes on our facebook page. That's probably about 10k in the past two years or so, since we became more active with it
<zequence> On Twitter, we have 254 followers. Twitter, I don't get
<zequence> Less than 2k have us in their circles in G+
<zequence> Xubuntu has 12k likes on their fb page, as comparison. So, we're not doing too bad
<holstein> assuming thats a correlation, sure
<zequence> On G+ Xubuntu has almost 7k followers.
<DalekSec> Liquorix does work in Ubuntu, not sure how well with LTS releases though (as you could guess, I may know a couple things about it. :P )  I'm not sure how it ranks in lowlat, as I don't use it for that.  As far as anything special for US?  No idea, zequence, my media needs aren't high.
<holstein> OvenWerks: so, were you around when someone suggested *not* having a release?
<holstein> how do you feel about that? or the LTS only?
<holstein> DalekSec: are there any "gotchas" as far as hardware support?
<DalekSec> holstein: dkms worked fine for nvidia and vboxhost modules at least, all other hardware tends to work fine.  Weirdly, plymouth's bootsplash only works for Liquorix, not the stock kernels on one computer.
<holstein> DalekSec: interesting. you think thats GPU related?
<holstein> i have nvidia, and it used to act quite odd with rt kernels with the boot splash.. under 10.04, and also 12.04
<DalekSec> I couldn't say what it is, both right now are the same upstream version.
<holstein> sometimes, its challenging to isolate, and know
<DalekSec> Also, Liquorix isn't rt, just preempt.
<holstein> yup
<DalekSec> Uses bfq as well.
<holstein> mhm.. i have installed it in the past
<holstein> and i had used a distro that shipped it.. i cant remember what one that was.. years ago..
<DalekSec> IMO, it's the best out of repo kernel there is, and a good option.  I suppose you could mention it.
<DalekSec> holstein: Sidux?
<holstein> DalekSec: likely sidux.. i do remember looking specifically as sidux
<holstein> at*
<DalekSec> (Great option, as someone that doesn't need a lowlat or rt kernel, that is.)
<holstein> what do you use it for?
<holstein> you use it for getting lower latency? correct?
<holstein> i always saw it as something with the side effect of being similar to RT
<holstein> similar effects
<DalekSec> I use it as an alternative kernel, but have zero need for low latency.
<DalekSec> holstein: Only thing to be aware of, repos also contains: sopcast-player sp-auth vmtouch wine1.7 xen-linux-system-3.19-4.dmz.1-liquorix exfalso quodlibet wine
<OvenWerks> holstein: I have been quiietly and not so quietly trying our metas, kernels amd menus with different DE ISOs.
<OvenWerks> I think even if we do an ISO as Studio on top of xubuntu, it is worth having our own ISO.
<OvenWerks> The big thing we need for being able to do "on top of" installs is an installer that can actually install jackd2 properly and a controls package that can deal with RT priv.
<OvenWerks> holstein: as you may have read above, I am looking at making our icon package/theme work with all the DEs.
<OvenWerks> holstein: as I have also mentioned, we provide a lot of packages and need to make as organized a presentation to users as possible. We came up with a menu stub that should work with any (XDG compliant) DE. (even FVWM has ways to fake this)
<OvenWerks> holstein: however, the DE world seems to be in a rush towards the android style of things with just favourite apps available easily and search through the whole bunch for anything else using a search engine.
<OvenWerks> It works really well for the average user who uses less than 10 applications in day to day computing or those who are keyboard search literate (I'm not). The world the win95 menu was built for is still there, but is a smaller percentage of the computing population.
<OvenWerks> holstein: Studio needs to find a way to organize our apps so the user does not get lost in the large number of applications to do with media.
<OvenWerks> *media creation
<OvenWerks> The one common thing to all the DEs (for now) is that there is a systray (or it`s new counterpart). It is possible to put a workflow applet or menu in there for all DEs ... one package that should just work.
<DalekSec> Well, unity only has indicators, no tray.
<OvenWerks> indicators was the word I was looking for. I think there is a tool kit that will look for both and use indicators if it can
<OvenWerks> Indicators are supposed to be more system integrated and more flexable.
<OvenWerks> There are some panels that can not see indicators though, so looking also for system tray is a backup.
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: indicators is technology we have to get used to if we are thinking cross DE.
 * OvenWerks needs to install vanilla and see what works/not
<DalekSec> Likely.  Some things don't support them, thus don't show up in Unity but work just about everywhere else. :P
<DalekSec> Also, trayicons can well have more features still.
<OvenWerks> What is the applet we use for audio? I thought that was an indicator.
<OvenWerks> (it seems to be pretty featureful)
<DalekSec> You use indicator-sound, that's slightly different.  There's indicators and application indicators.
 * OvenWerks looks blank :)
<OvenWerks> I guess I am asking if it works with unity.
<OvenWerks> I expect qjackctl's tray icon ay not.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-04-25
<sakrecoer> hi guys!
<sakrecoer> i see this: https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+series we seem to have dropped using that at 14.10...
<sakrecoer> i'm thinking about setting up one of those for this one, any contras or objections?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Is our calendar any different from others? Is there an overall timeline set up?
<OvenWerks> the reality is that even though we have not kept up with vanilla on some betas, their freezes etc. still affect us. certainly with trying to sync new versions of packages etc.
<OvenWerks> That is why we should figure out package changes now, get them in our seeds right away. So far as our own packages... basically we should be working stuff for 17.04 right now unless they are very simple and can be done before feature freeze. (working if not bug free)
<zequence> sakrecoer: I never found any use for it. The milestones can be useful when targeting bugs and blueprints to it, but there's mor eor less just one important milestone - which is Final Release
<OvenWerks> Basically we have 4 months for most of our change work. I have been caught in this before and made package changes too late for more than one cycle with the same package :P
<zequence> sakrecoer: Also, no hurry with the blueprints. I would first focus on writing stuff down as feature definitions, to get everthing on print
<zequence> sakrecoer: And, if I were doing blueprints this time around, I would probably only create them for the few things that would benefit from that
<zequence> sakrecoer: The thing with blueprints is that you can split the work into tasks that people can choose to do individually. If the feature definition is to be done by 1 or 2 people who are well aware of what and how they want to do it, the blueprint becomes superfluous
<zequence> sakrecoer: You could however start with a blueprint for the ubuntustudio-y-topic, which will depend on all others
<zequence> sakrecoer: That blueprint will have no tasks, it's just a way to collect all the blueprints for y into a tree, where the "ubuntustudio-y-topic" is the root
<zequence> sakrecoer: I would wait with doing the blueprints until at least a couple of weeks from now, and finish all plans in a month from now, including feature definitions and blueprints
<zequence> ..following the vanilla schedule, somewhat
<knome> from my point of view, even if the blueprint was a handful of work items shared by two or three people, it's useful for both tracking what's done, what needs to be done but also as a window for others that might be interested in helping out
<zequence> There's that, but only if we register the blueprints with the Ubuntu project, which we haven't done lately
<zequence> ..out of convienence
<sakrecoer> ok thanks knome zequence OvenWerks .. i think i want to use as much help i can get from the available tools to keep scheduling and track keeping.
<zequence> (or if we setup our own overview system)
<zequence> sakrecoer: You could check how Xubuntu has done their blueprints, to get some inspiration I guess - they do add them to the Ubuntu project
<zequence> But, that means, they won't be inside our own projects at all
<zequence> (which is where they naturally belong)
<cub> knome: does xubuntu combine blueprints with Trello? And if so, how?
<knome> no
<knome> we have http://dev.xubuntu.org/
<knome> for a more filled example, see http://dev.xubuntu.org/?s=x
<cub> Right, I had forgot that
<zequence> knome: Ah, someone set that up for you in your team?
<knome> i did
<flocculant> zequence: guess who :)
<flocculant> cub: qa has been using trello - the qa lead isn't so sure anymore :)
<zequence> I was going to see about doing that, but never got around to it
<knome> zequence, the code is available in launchpad under the xubuntu-website project...
<zequence> Not sure we need all that much, tbh. We're still a fairly small team
<zequence> knome: Ok, thanks
<cfhowlett> I like the xubuntu site
<zequence> I suppose, if it's not too much work, we could just copy and change branding and configs
<knome> tbh, even if i say myself, the tracker is one of the most useful tools for overall development the xubuntu team has
<sakrecoer> that looks very cool knome !
<flocculant> I'd agree - and I'm not him :)
<cub> Such a tool would need to be tied into the blueprints automatically, manual work will always fail
<sakrecoer> fun thing is, to have such system, we would have to create a blueprint for it's implementation :D
<cub> but I suppose knome tool does that?
<knome> cub, does what?
<cub> zequence: yeah we discussed it before but as it was more or less just you and OvenWerks doing stuff it made no sense. :P
<cub> knome: connect to your launchpad blueprints
<knome> in the tool we add a database row, one per series; in that we specify the umbrella blueprint and it automatically gets everything else under it
<zequence> cub: Yes, and still it may not be overly helpful
<cub> Maybe, maybe not? In my department we have a 2 person team running kanban board for everything they do.
<zequence> sakrecoer: I think make your decision about blueprints once you have put together the feature definitions for y. That will tell you how much it really is
<cub> anyways, time to head home
<zequence> My guess is, it will be pretty straight forward, and it's easier just to look at the few blueprints we have
<zequence> The blueprints I've done for previous releases -> Most of them were totally just there for show, and just makes it harder to get an overview
<knome> well, i guess i got to disagree here
<knome> but of course it depends how you present the blueprints
<zequence> knome: Have you looked at them?
<zequence> knome: Not sure how else you can have an opinion
<knome> i've seen them
<knome> i can have an opinion on everything without seeing anything... whether you think it's valuable is a different thing
<sakrecoer> zequence: that makes sense; kindof useless to have a blueprint for a work-field where nothing will be done. But i'd i think i want to be quick at keeping things tidy. 
<zequence> Well, I think the absolutely most important thing is getting things down in feature definitions first. And, then worry about implementing and organizaing the work
<knome> as another point of entry, the xubuntu team does both of those at the same time
<sakrecoer> i had a interesting discussion about the diff between freedom of speech and freedom of opinion saturday. so i have to agree on that knome :)
<zequence> Philosophically, I don't think anyone would disagree at any time
<zequence> It would be philosophically impossible
<sakrecoer> zequence: sure, but for example, i culd already set-up the blueprint for audio and graphics.
<sakrecoer> ...since we already have a few points there..
<zequence> sakrecoer: You mean package selection? Doesn't make sense to me. It's one change in the bzr branch, once we've decided on package changes
<zequence> The meta package selection is actually one of those blueprints I would not be doing again, for that reason
<zequence> Thinkt he wiki page works a lot better
<zequence> If you can split the work into different tasks, and each task takes a certain amount of time, then it makes sense to have a blueprint
<zequence> Or, you can have a generic blueprint just called "audio" and one for "video", which includes tasks to implement several feature definitions, one being the wacom scripts
<zequence> But, those would then not reflect on our packages, or any specific project aside from the "Ubuntu Studio" project
<zequence> Anyway, there's no hurry with blueprints at all. It can wait another week or two. I would focus on worrying more about what we are actually going to be changing, and not so much how we organize the changes.
<zequence> So, discussions and feature definitions. That's to me the best start
<zequence> But, of course, new ideas will be emerging throughout the cycle, so things need to be added
<zequence> For example: do we want our own custom DE?
<zequence> And, what should it do? What features should it have?
<zequence> That could be one feature definition, and later a blueprint, but one which would involve lots of different packages
<sakrecoer> ok, i'll think about it. :) meanwhile, indeed, i will take that DE issue to the mailing list :)
<sakrecoer> there is something weird with the mailing list btw, i changed my adress to be sent to my @ubuntustudio.org adress, but in the source it says all mail is sent to my @sakrecoer adress..
<sakrecoer> maybe something in the way the @ubuntustudio forwarding is set up...
<sakrecoer> yeah, that is it, nvm...
<zequence> sakrecoer: Also, not all blueprints need to be for a specific milestone. Like the website overhaul blueprint
<sakrecoer> zequence: i get it :) there is a realy thin line between package definition and feature difition, or am i missing a bigger picture?
<zequence> sakrecoer: package selection is done from the policy we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Policy#Selecting_preinstalled_packages
<zequence> I should add we choose the best and most common applications for each workflow
<zequence> I would say changes to the multimedia seeds (which is what package selection is) is one single thing, since it can be implemented with one bzr commit
<zequence> It's one task
<zequence> But, something I have wanted for someone to do for ages (and I haven't myself) is go through the whole multimedia section and look for packages that we are not including - perhaps because we didnt know about them
<zequence> And, that is a much bigger job, which can be split into several tasks
<zequence> Or, several areas, at least
<zequence> That should really be done every cycle
<sakrecoer> hehe, "No duplication of tools" looking at our 4 video sequencer :D
<zequence> Best time is probably jusb before Debian Import Freeze
<zequence> sakrecoer: Depends on what you mean by duplication, but sure, there is probably one too many there
<zequence> Blender, though it can do video editing is not what you want to use for simple Youtube videos
<sakrecoer> "If two applications do the same exact thing, only one of them should be included. " so i gues it qualifies :)
<sakrecoer> anyways its a side track sorry
<zequence> sakrecoer: No, I think it's important
<zequence> Like, we have LMMS, but you can't compare that to Ardour. And we also have qtractor
<zequence> LMMS for the really simple stuff, qtractor because of midi mostly, and Ardour for multitracking audio, though all of them can do the same things to some degree
<zequence> The same would apply for things like Openshot and Kdenlive. Openshot is really simple, while kdenlive lets you do a lot more
<zequence> But, why then do we have pitivi?
<zequence> So, there's a problem right there
<zequence> And, again, I would not count Blender into the mix since it is first and foremost a 3D modelling application, which can do almost everything else too (but you probably don't want to use it for everything else)
<sakrecoer> zequence: good points!
<sakrecoer> i was actualy writing pretty much exactly that to the list :)
<zequence> This is how we have done so far. But, we might have failed with pitivi. Don't remember how that happened
<sakrecoer> zequence: there was a promiss that pitivi would become a more "professional" VSE, which it seems to have accomplished..
<zequence> sakrecoer: So, then the question is, should it replace kdenlive? Or, is there something one of them does that the other one can't?
<zequence> I haven't used it. So, I really don't know
<zequence> Is it perhaps simple to use like Openshot as well?
<zequence> There's always good to have both a pro tool and a beginner tool for the same workflow, unless there is a tool which can do both
<sakrecoer> i haven't really investigated myself yet. i always use blender for video now a days... Maybe pitivi is up to kdenlive level, but i can't say yet... i guess, i'll shoot my mail, and let the discussion begin :)
<zequence> Yep
<zequence> I actually added two more things to the policy, to clarify the policy that has been used until now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Policy#Selecting_preinstalled_packages
<sakrecoer> thanks zequence ! :)
<zequence> sakrecoer: Very reasonable arguments on the mail list, I think
<autumna> flocculant: in terms of trello, one of the advantages of it is that you can not only comment and put them in correct status bins, so I have seen it being useful on selection of new feature, type of things. it can get very messy with a lot of items through. 
<sakrecoer> zequence: :)
<autumna> (also hi zequence and sakrecoer.)
<zequence> autumna: Hellp
<zequence> Hello*
<autumna> was that a typo or is there something that I can--
<autumna> haha
<autumna> that typo could have gone both ways
<sakrecoer> :D
<sakrecoer> hi autumna !
<zequence> I guess so :)
<autumna> ok re proposing package proposals, are we discussing things that are going to be installed by default, or things that are not currently in the repositories but could be? a combination? 
<sakrecoer> i'd say a combination, autumna :)
<zequence> autumna: Only what is going to be installed by default. We don't control what is in the repos
<sakrecoer> add, remove or replace :)
<sakrecoer> ah, ok, yeah in that way...
<zequence> :)
<zequence> If something should be in the repos, it needs to be added in Debian first. Then it appears here automatically
<autumna> I see
<zequence> ..as long as the license is free
<autumna> I have been fiddling with the simplescreenrecorder as a secondary alternative to vokoscreen, but i wasn't sure if that is something we can do, since the package wasn't (well so far wasn't maybe that is changing) in the repos from what I can tell. 
<zequence> Anyone can get a package into Debian. Just report a bug for it, package it, and get a sponsor to upload it. But, none of us has been doing that
<zequence> We only need one screen recorder, dont we?
<sakrecoer> zequence: yes. and i have to say vokoscreen looks like a very cool option...
<sakrecoer> (just imho)
<zequence> It's the only one that worked for me, and it does work well
<autumna> I managed to get vokoscreen to get audio delays. plus simplescreenrecorder can access jack directly... (for a definition of directly) 
<zequence> autumna: audio delays? The audio wasn't in sync?
<autumna> yeah.
<zequence> That happens on Kazam for me, but not on vokoscreen yet
<autumna> when getting the audio output of the computer. 
<autumna> I was pushing it a bit hard but simplescreenrecorder also.. supposedly allows recording from openGl. its original intended use seems to be live game recording. 
<autumna> ok that was a grammar fail there. 
<zequence> I should double check. Did a very long recording a while back
<autumna> I was running a video, and a webcam. :D 
<zequence> I was using another application to record the webcam
<zequence> So, two at the same time
<zequence> ..while recording with Ardour and a bunch of plugins
<autumna> interesting. 
<autumna> I do use a laptop, it is a gaming laptop, so pretty good but still. 
<zequence> vokoscreen was nice cause 1) it worked, 2) the file size was small, and good quality
<zequence> This is an old Pentium Dual Core, at least 10 years old
<autumna> ok now I am truly confused. 
<OvenWerks> autumna: what kind of latency were you using? For recording, a higher latency makes sense.
<autumna> ovenwerks: what do you mean with latency? in audio setup? in vokoscreen? (relatively newbie in audio setups)
<OvenWerks> autumna: in jack
<autumna> I run jack with the defaults
<OvenWerks> autumna: I run jack as my pulseaudio "device"
<OvenWerks> I have set pulse up to see no alsa devices... even ones it doesn't use.
<autumna> *listens*
<OvenWerks> I have found before that having pulseaudio see more than one device that may be at different sampling rates (variations of 48k for example) there tends to end up being problems with pops clicks and or xruns.
<autumna> I.. have a script that ties to pulse audio to jack and makes the jack_out default sink. and I set the buffer to 1024, that's about the only changes I do. I am not sure how to make pulse audio not see any alsa devices through
<OvenWerks> Two cards running at 48k are not the same sample rate it will differe slightly.
<OvenWerks> pactl unload-module module-udev-detect
<OvenWerks> pactl unload-module module-alsa-card
<sakrecoer> zequence: i saw ~ubuntustudio-dev was added to the etherpad (thanks btw). but i liked your idea of adding ~ubuntustudio-documentation there. Doc-team has less members i guess, maybe it is not very important..?
<OvenWerks> The first will tell pulse not to monitor for new USB devices added the second unloads any alsa devices now loaded.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I just didn't want to join myself to yet another group...
<autumna> (what I ran into was lag in recording with vokoscreen was more of a audio at times more like.. temporarily lagging but it might be overlapping problem)
<autumna> ok these are getting added to my launch jack script one sec
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: oh but i'm sure it is a good thing to have the dev team in there :)
<sakrecoer> it just that sometimes people how are good with docs, aren't very good with dev-things.. 
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: yes, I fugured that team will be doing the actual adding.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: it is not that hard to add a group.
<OvenWerks> you just have to be a member :)
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: i see that, i'll just add the doc group and see what happens :)
 * sakrecoer gives flocculant and knome a cute-look :3
<OvenWerks> So long as the group is moderated
<autumna> (also thanks OvenWerks. I'll try these changes and try both video apps later this weekend) 
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: oops.. doc-team is open...
<sakrecoer> there is no big rush to it, so i'll just set it to moderated....
<autumna> ok another question: is there a list somewhere of all the packages already in the 16.04? 
<OvenWerks> seeds
<OvenWerks> autumna: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.yakkety
<OvenWerks> autumna: this does not include packages we include because they are depended on by other packages...
<autumna> *nods*
<OvenWerks> autumna: however, it is a good policy to include any package we want in seeds even if it gets pulled in as a depend
<OvenWerks> autumna: That way if we remove the application that pulls it in, we don't loose it
<autumna> *nods*
<autumna> that makes sense. 
<OvenWerks> autumna: Our ubuntustudio metas are creted from that package.
 * autumna explores while listening
<OvenWerks> autumna: in the past we have tried to include one good example of each type of application rather than having every possible media creation package. There were plans to upgrade ubuntustudio-installer so that we had an installer that shows all the meadia creation packages available that are not installed rather than the whole repo.
<autumna> *nods* so these seeds are the preinstalled items? 
<OvenWerks> right now it mostly allows installing the studio metas if you are putting them in a different DE/flavour and we no longer include it in the distro.
<OvenWerks> autumna: yes
<zequence> sakrecoer: It would be better if ubuntustudio-documentation was in the etherpad team, and we then made all other teams members of the -documentation team
<zequence> That way, all of us get automatic rights for the wiki, which we absolutely should have
<zequence> sakrecoer: As said earlier, means making -documentation a moderated group - otherwise it would not be secure
<OvenWerks> -installer is not a very nice package/utility right now. More of a quick hack.
<autumna> OvenWerks: very potentially crazy idea. could we somehow drag software boutique, or another similar (hopefully simpler) curated software app, and use that I wonder. 
<OvenWerks> Ack! I just noticed a new option in lauchpad. "Create snap package" (the only application I would concider doing that for right now is GCDMaster
<OvenWerks> autumna: I am all for it.
<autumna> ok I am making a list of things I promised to look into. :D because it is becoming a queue
<OvenWerks> autumna: I looked for an already existing installer at the time, but couldn't find any with the possiblilty of giving package lists on the command line or in a config file
<OvenWerks> (aside from USC)
<zequence> OvenWerks: Yes, it's possible now. But, let's not do that for Ubuntu Studio stuff yet, before we know what snap can do
<autumna> oh right
<zequence> OvenWerks: I read an article about how snap is quite insecure on X. So, only great for MIR and Wayland right now
<OvenWerks> zequence: I would like to stay totally away from snap
<zequence> OvenWerks: I would like to hear your opinions about that. Maybe on the mail list?
<sakrecoer> zequence: MIR... the space station?
<zequence> sakrecoer: I think the word means Peace, or something like that. But, yes, it is named after that.
<zequence> MIR is the new window manager for unity, which Canonical introduced a few cycles ago, but is only used for touch devices still
<zequence> Ubuntu flavors are all still powered by the X window system
<zequence> Gnome is working hard at making Wayland its default
<zequence> It's still kind of Beta, but fairly well implemented, I think
<autumna> I am a bit worried about that switch
<zequence> autumna: Why is that?
<sakrecoer> autumna: why?
<autumna> I am not sure if it will affect wacom apps and other screenapps
<zequence> There was some controversy about it when the whole thing was announced a while back. Lots of people were not pleased, since they were all hoping everyone would be using Wayland
<zequence> There may be some problems with video, and drivers, but hopefully all that will be worked out before anyone changes
<zequence> Ok, better do some studies here. Talk to you guys later :)
<autumna> bye zequence
<sakrecoer> zequence: i added all the moderated team to the documentation team. bascially all, except âUbuntu Studioâ team and âUbuntu Studio Testingâ team
<OvenWerks> zequence: however, if it allows us save/keep applications suffering from bitrot it may be worthwhile.
<OvenWerks> autumna: my response to MIR is to remember upstart.
<autumna> *googles upstart*
<OvenWerks> autumna: I think that if debian makes wayland default, ubuntu will follow
<OvenWerks> upstart is like initd or systemd
<autumna> ah
<autumna> OvenWerks: ok I am not sure exactly what you mean by remembering upstart. :)
<OvenWerks> autumna: I think some flavours like kubuntu and maybe lubuntu (qbuntu?) will keep xorg alive
<autumna> *nods*
<OvenWerks> ubuntu went from init to upstart and spoke very strongly about debian going upstart, but when debian went systemd, ubuntu has followed.
<autumna> wouldn't the graphic driver support also influence the situation through? 
<autumna> aah
<autumna> ok got it. (and I totally missed that discussion)
<OvenWerks> autumna: I think if the whole linux world goes wayland... ubuntu will get too.
<OvenWerks> autumna: There are as you suggested, some differences in that ubuntu has gotten some of the HW/game devs on side, but I don't know how much influence that will have in the long run.
<autumna> *nods* 
<autumna> it does at least look like through everyone is being cautious, so that's good
<autumna> I am just worried because already I know very few graphic artists using linux.
<OvenWerks> autumna: wayland is moving too slow I think. If it takes much longer it will be out of date before it arives.
<OvenWerks> autumna: I have been hearing about wayland for years. I think every generation of GPU sets it back again
<autumna> I see 
<autumna> OvenWerks: yeah it has been discussed for a while, but doesn't that also mean it is maturing?
<autumna> OvenWerks: and becoming more stable and supported before the switch happens? 
 * autumna really is not that up to date on the details of this topic
<OvenWerks> autumna: wayland? I hope so, but time doesn't wait. If MIR works well enough... it is possible the linux world will grab it... on the other hand if it is seen to be too much a node to closed source bits, That will make it ubuntu only.
<OvenWerks> /snode/nod
<OvenWerks> autumna: even in the open source world fastest to market means something.
<autumna> OvenWerks: *Nods*
<OvenWerks> on the other hand, sometimes something better that comes later (takes longer) does do well
<autumna> OvenWerks: I don't see a replacement of X as something where speed will be as important tbh. I mean this is not an end user software. 
<autumna> (btw shall we move this to off topic?)
<OvenWerks> is there more to say?
<OvenWerks>  :)
<autumna> ha.. point taken
<OvenWerks> autumna: The point where this impacts Studio would be if xubuntu goes MIR or wayland
<OvenWerks> (assuming Studio is still based on xubuntu)
<autumna> OvenWerks: yeah there is that last bit, also even before that.
<autumna> OvenWerks: I know we are not in the majority but it might affect before where the driver supports goes, for graphics people. 
<autumna> OvenWerks: wacom support, and I assume for anyone who does extensive 3D (or even some types of 2D), graphic drivers are decision factors as well? 
<OvenWerks> I think snap is going to be the first thing.
<OvenWerks> autumna: it would be interesting to know how the profesional graphics servers deal with this stuff
<autumna> OvenWerks: that's something I hadn't thought of and yeah. 
<OvenWerks> (machines with more than one gpu)
<OvenWerks> I think that the application takes direct control of the extra GPUs (which have no video out BTW) to use them as rendering co-processors.
<autumna> maybe? although.. there are.. desktops.. that has 2 GPUs as well. so there might be some support of that on graphic driver level?
<OvenWerks> autumna: so far as I know that is already there in the video drivers we have.
<OvenWerks> but that is two video cards that have video out so that someone can have more than three screens
<autumna> *nods*
<autumna> yeah no I would have to read up on the details. My experiences with these setups is firmly from the point of end user and gamer. 
<autumna> :)
 * OvenWerks tries to remember where he saw video works stations... thought it was here: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products but no.
<OvenWerks> video cameras sure have gotten cheap: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursa
<autumna> pretty!
<niks> hi
<niks> Can any one help me on ubuntu studio
<niks> ?
<krytarik> niks: The support channel is #ubuntustudio.
<niks> nope, I wanted to know that how can i contibute to ubuntu studio devlopment
<OvenWerks> that works.
<zequence> niks: Testing, coding, artwork, documentation?
<zequence> niks: Start by subscribing to the devel mail list, and make sure to read it and hang here for now, and you should have no problem catching on
<zequence> niks: We're just starting preparations for the next cycle of development
<niks> I have subscribed to mailing list
<niks> thanks
<sakrecoer> krytarik gave me this cool list of things to do: http://paste.openstack.org/show/XEDOtbepOEQP9rf8jBWv/ would you guys like to look at it and tell me if you agree to them? :)
<sakrecoer> to them *points :p
<zequence> sakrecoer: Isn't it better that krytarik just does the fixes in code, and keeps in mind that it needs to be desktop agnostic?
<zequence> As long as it's a matter of fixing things, there's really nothing to discuss. The uploader will need to review and approve, and that is myself
<zequence> sakrecoer: But, again, renaming files, just for the fun of it?
<zequence> No thanks. That's a waste of time
<zequence> If the changes mean some form of change, then it is a matter of adding those to the correct feature definition, before the changes are made
<zequence> I mean, change as in not a fix
<zequence> Cause, those need to be reviewed by whoever is in charge of that area. A team lead, or the project lead
<zequence> sakrecoer: So, in short, krytarik should follow the same procedure for suggesting changes as the rest of us
<zequence> But, again, fixes are fixes. Filename changes are not fixes though - those are changes.
<sakrecoer> zequence: the idea here is to add those points to the blueprints for their respective assignee
<zequence> sakrecoer: Why? Bugs should be reported and fixed. Feature should be planned before implementing
<zequence> sakrecoer: I see mostly bug fixes there. No plans needed
<sakrecoer> well, that is why i submitted to you: to plan it
<sakrecoer> you as the group...
<zequence> Again, bug fixing does not need any planning. But, could require some coordination
<zequence> I would say Ross is the best person in our team for coordinating bug fixes - making sure someone is doing it
<sakrecoer> ok, i guess i missunderstood the blueprint thing, thought a TODO point would have to be discussed first.
<zequence> For bugs? no
<zequence> No planning or discussion needed
<zequence> Just fix them
<zequence> Either report them, and have someone else fix them, or report them yourself and fix them, or just fix them
<zequence> What's there to discuss?
<zequence> Fixing bugs, and implementing features are two totally different things
<zequence> Sometimes implementing a feature may also fix a bug, but that is still not the same thing
<sakrecoer> alright, but the blue is supposed to help us keep track of which bugs we need to fix among other things, no?
<sakrecoer> blue*print
<zequence> No
<zequence> Different teams should subscribe to the bugs that concern their own packages, and fix them as the bugs arrive
<zequence> Also, we have the ubuntustudio-bugs team that is subscribed to the bugs for lots of multimedia packages, and can help fixing bugs for those too
<zequence> blueprints is not used to keep track of bugs
<sakrecoer> ok :)
<zequence> it's for organizing tasks for planned changes, which usually means implementing some form of feature that did not exist before in our OS
<zequence> Critical bugs should be fixed ASAP for stable releases
<zequence> Other fixes can wait. And a very good time to check which bugs still need to be fixed is after Feature Freeze.
<sakrecoer> noted :)
<zequence> But, if krytarik wants to do fixing now, it's perfectly alright. I mean, it never hurts to do things right away
<zequence> I just hope he does not rename files for no reason, that's all. We have already seen why that is not a good idea
<zequence> And, those would not be bug fixes anyway
<autumna> wow ok xinput-calibrator seems to be working just fine. *goes to find the wacom tablet*
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-04-26
<OvenWerks> Anyone else having trouble with simplescan? Simple scan sees the scanner ok (knows it's name) hit scan and it sits spinning forever till killed.
<OvenWerks> hmm eventually says failed to scan - Unable to connect to scanner
<OvenWerks> reboot to 14.04 and works fine.
 * OvenWerks switches scanners
<OvenWerks> Hmm, the HP works... but it sounds horrible! Both are combos  print/copy/scan (they come for free after the owner runs out of ink a few times :)
<OvenWerks> hmm, this page: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/ubuntu-16-04-download-new-features has a comment about it.
<OvenWerks> "More concerning is the loss of LSB. I know this is a Debian upstream issue, but it's huge. You now can't print to or scan from an Epson printer"
<OvenWerks> So i guess I plug the epson back in and BUG it. I do have 2 LSB packages in, so I am not sure if that is the real issue.
<zequence> knome: Thanks for adding -documentation
<zequence> So, now, all team members have wiki access. Good!
<zequence> sakrecoer: I'm removing our contact email address from the front page from our website (though encoded, it just generates spam). Also going to create an rt ticket to have it removed all together
<zequence> sakrecoer: If you want a generic contact email, I would suggest creating a new one, like official at ubuntustudio dot org, then using a contact form of some sort (addons for WP), so that bots can't send you mail
<zequence> sakrecoer: Just create a ticket for it, whenever you want to set up a new redirect, at http://rt.ubuntu.com
<cub> "If two applications do the same exact thing, only one of them should be included. " I think the point is "same exact thing". I would not compare Blender with video editing even though it's possible. In that way we could argue we shouldn't include any editors because you could do that through vi.
<sakrecoer> cub: no body is comparing blender to a video editor, as far as i have red..
<sakrecoer> zequence: ok :)
<cub> sakrecoer I think some arguments have pointed in that direction.
<sakrecoer> cub: were?
<cub> But it was just one example
<sakrecoer> where even :)
<sakrecoer> cub: are you running a survey for definition on social media?
<sakrecoer> gah.. *feature definition
<cub> survey? Not that I know..:D
<sakrecoer> ok, would be good to do that tho.. gather some ideas :)
<sakrecoer> cub: i don't think anyone i've red on the list is reducing blender to a VSE, i haven't seen one suggestion it would be, that is why you make me curious :)
<cub> No but that as Blender is capable of video editing. Actually you did. 
<cub> "Atm we have 4 video sequencers: Blender, Kdenliv, Pitivi and openshots."
<sakrecoer> cub: read on :)
<cub> I know , as I said it is an example.
<cub> If they don't do "same exact thing" I don't think apps should be compared.
<sakrecoer> ok. :) i thought i made it clear that blender is not up to debate in that context
<sakrecoer> ..and that it was NOT comparable to the rest
<cub> I'm not saying Blender should go. I'm saying Blender is not in the same area as Kdenlive
<sakrecoer> and nobody is arguing against you. i was just curious as of why you would bring that up
<cub> and as I wrote, I don't know the developments of pitivi but I know movie makes who are successful with kdenlive for actual movies. No so sre about the same with the other editors
<cub> I brought it up as it's a long email thread and discussion in the channel yesterday
<zequence> Seems like pitivi could be somewhere in the middle, but if it's very simple to use, and better than openshot, perhaps we drop openshot?
<cub> zequence: yes could be. 
<sakrecoer> it seems to lean between pitivi and openshot yes
<sakrecoer> pretty fond of kdenlive myself
<cub> or if it turns out next version of kdenlive will require ALL of KDE libraries to be installed, it might be dropped
<sakrecoer> even tho at this point i wouldn't think of editing video outside of blender
<sakrecoer> it even has jack sync :D
<sakrecoer> but that is beside the point here :)
<zequence> If pitivi and openshot both are simple to use, but both do something the other one can't, I could see why it makes sense to keep both
<zequence> I've only used openshot so far out of all the editors, but I could give pitivi a spin during this week
<sakrecoer> i guess i should do that too
<sakrecoer> i had a quick run of pitivi, and i was fairly impressed.
<sakrecoer> transitions and titles are super easy to achieve
<sakrecoer> seems to have gnome layout on the window, not sure that is a problem..
<sakrecoer> i might be out bicycling ;) but i have this memory of openshot having a limited amount of tracks
<sakrecoer> i reckon they all have a track limit set by ram/machine, but in the openshot it was maybe hardcoded.
<zequence> openshot is really rudimentary, but the good points with openshot I think is it seems to work with pretty much any file format, and it's very simple to decide a sensible output format as well
<zequence> Editing is not so fun in openshot. So, if you're only adding maybe 2-3 clips in a row, it's ok
<sakrecoer> ouput options are a very important point. video rendering is a jungle
<sakrecoer> i have to run.. read you guys later
<zequence> For someone who wants to turn their phone recording into a youtube video, openshot does the job
<zequence> sakrecoer: Ltr
<sakrecoer> cfhowlett: hi! do you think you would have time to put together a post for our social media to gather ideas for feature definition?
<cfhowlett> so a "make your suggestions here!!" type of thing??
<sakrecoer> yeah :) exactly, maybe enfocus the 'add', 'remove' 'replace' dimension of it..
<sakrecoer> based on the wiki page about it..?
<cfhowlett> ah!  even better.  will this be timed for the 16.10 release or should we leave that undefined?
<sakrecoer> well, maybe it should stay undefined... but you could push the 'best bet to get it through is to make it happen yourself' somehow...
<cfhowlett> sounds about right.  I'll draft it and send it your way before deploying.
<sakrecoer> but the idea is mostely to, well, gather ideas :)
<sakrecoer> awsome! :)
<sakrecoer> thank you!!!
<zequence> sakrecoer: If just asking for opinions, that may be less technical for our users. They don't think in terms of package selection, or adding/removing features. Just what they would like to see different
<zequence> So, perhaps a simple question like "What kind of additions/changes would you like to see in Ubuntu Studio?"
<cfhowlett> zequence, sounds reasonable
<zequence> Our users should not use our wiki for suggesting changes either. That's strictly for us who are active here
<cfhowlett> noted.  perhaps we can slurp input via the social media channels?
<zequence> cfhowlett: Yes, I think that's what the users would be most comfortable with. Perhaps suggest them to voice opinions on our user mail list as well
<cfhowlett> even better.
<zequence> or, as an alternative
<zequence> yakkety is now open for development, meaning it's possible to do uploads to the archive
<zequence> UEFI fail
<zequence> Ah, no. Just brain fail.
<zequence> plymouth looks nice in 1080p on a TV
<zequence> sakrecoer: We did well with the artwork for this release!
<zequence> Just realized the ubiquity plugin is including desktop-core, which it shouldn't. My bad. Never thought of that
 * OvenWerks wonders how he missed that one.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I should have caught that too
<zequence> OvenWerks: Needs to be filtered out in the plugin code. Had forgotten I had done that for the -desktop meta
<zequence> Think edubuntu was doing that too (that's where the plugin was "stolen" from, and readapted for Ubuntu Studio)
<zequence> Would seem likely anyway. They are the only ones aside from us that had an interest in particular extra metas
<zequence> They had a meta for each level of school
<OvenWerks> Ya, it is just that I did look at that part of things when I was testing installs, it just surprises me I didn't have a "whats that there for?" moment.
<zequence> OvenWerks: You do usually catch that sort of thing
<OvenWerks> That makes sense
<OvenWerks> I am installing xsane to see if that handles the other scanner. If not I can bug libsane which simple scan uses too. I am pretty sure that is not the problem but I don't know which package to bug otherwise.
<zequence> Bothersome with that sort of regressions, which you would think would not need to happen
<OvenWerks> It seems to be everything epson, printers/scanners, whatever.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ok, I remember my first time seeing downloadable printer drivers for Linux the same way you see them for Windows - Canon had a few.
<zequence> I was able to use a printer through the network that was hosted through a Windows XP machine
<zequence> ..that way
<zequence> I actually got access to it, though the IT person had tried to block access
<zequence> Probably very unusual to find .deb packages with drivers for individual printers/scanners
<OvenWerks> thing is this scanner worked OOTB on 14.04, no drivers added.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Yeah, would be strange to pull functional drivers from Linux.
<zequence> knome: It's almost like our wallpaper was inpsired by our artwork for the website theme (which we currently have). Not intentional, but it's almost pre-destined figuring how the colors were chosen in the first place
<zequence> your* artwork for the website team
<zequence> sorry, the "r" slipped there :)
<zequence> theme*, anyway, best to stop spelling now
<flocculant> :)
<autumna> flocculant btw: I did try gnome-boxes extensively, and my conclusion is: just use virtual machine manager. it is about the same difficulty as virtual-box anyway.
<autumna> you can't share folders, and there is a bit of a weird artifact happening with mouse control that somehow doesn't happen with vmm
<zequence> autumna: Probably you can share folder over the network, but you need to bridge the guest first, so it gets its own IP address
<autumna> zequence: that's pretty much what I read but that's somewhat convoluted, and chances are you could accidentally expose private data to net :)
<autumna> in context we were discussing if it could be a good alternative for the beginners which.. yeah no. :D I can live with not being able to move the folder where the virtual machines are created but...
<zequence> autumna: Only if you don't have a PAT or firewall in between, which you would have with a router of some sort
<zequence> Otherwise, it's just the same as with any OS sharing files. The virtual ones are no different in that
<zequence> A virtual OS is just like any other OS, just that it's a guest of another OS
<autumna> if you are at home then yes. if you are on a dorm or workplace, or working at a coffee house though.. then it gets more interesting. 
<zequence> Would be no different than sharing files on your laptop.
<zequence> I mean, the host
<autumna> as in sharing files with another computer on your network?
<zequence> Yeah
<autumna> yeah I don't want to do that. 
<zequence> But, you can easily secure that whatever means you use
<zequence> ssh, for example
<zequence> Just install an ssh server on either the guest, or the host, and you can move files in between them using scp
<zequence> That does mean, the guest needs to have its own IP
<zequence> And, before you question the security of that, just remember, a guest is just like any other OS on the network, as already explained
<autumna> I guess it depends on how private you want to be. I do think sharing in a network even local one is undesirable, (also can be slow) and not a replacement to sharing local folders. 
<flocculant> autumna: yea - in the end I wasn't too interested given it's immediate minus for me - and was mostly just looking to see if it was nice and simple for drive-by testers
<autumna> zequence: I do however concede that it might not be an issue for everyone but I would still say that all of this is not terribly beginner friendly :) 
<zequence> Either you want to share something, or not. That is what makes it desirable or not. From a security POW, if that is an important factor, you choose something that works, and SSH is a very good solution
<zequence> It's not magic, after all
<autumna> zequence: sharing with my own virtual machine that I use isn't the same thing as sharing with somebody else. 
<zequence> ssh is probably not the most beginner friendly, in that I agree, absolutely
<zequence> Sharing over the network doesn't mean you are sharing with someone else, if it's securely shared
<zequence> Of course, it makes it less secure, but it's not unsecure, if you do it the right way
<zequence> The difference is highly philosophical, or even unknown under secure conditions
<autumna> flocculant: yeah I mean I can see the use of quick iso and install testing but even then, then there is the limitation of not knowing what the underlying structure of the machine at all. Plus the mouse issue. 
<flocculant> got to be honest - when I couldn't tell it where I wanted the vm to live - game over ;)
<autumna> zequence: I am on the camp of better safe than sorry, especially in this context for beginners. As for the levels of security, less secure might be acceptable for some things but not others. :)
<zequence> Again, it's not magic, but sure, better if you know the difference
<autumna> flocculant: heh I was very annoyed too, I was just going with somebody who is doing testing for first time and would have that machine on their harddrive for a brief time would probably not care that much ;D
<autumna> zequence: :)
<autumna> flocculant: I also do hope that they are going to fix those 2 features through eventually, because it is something many beginner level users will look for. 
<flocculant> autumna: well the first-time tester has only got to have a smallish / - do some vm - forget - update and include a kernel and it all go wrong :)
<flocculant> autumna: and I'd not hold out hope for gnome to ADD a feature ;)
<autumna> OUCH flocculant
<autumna> ouch!
<autumna> :)
<flocculant> anyway - enough of that from me in your dev channel :)
<autumna> heh
 * zequence uses Gnome as the main DE
 * zequence is not lacking any features, but is also a so called "power user"
<autumna> I haven't forgotten my promise to zequence to write a bug filing procedure (just sidetracked because we were just linked a whole bunch of documentation I had somehow missed, so going through them first) maybe when I do that I can write instructions on how to set up VMM machine from scratch to do testing. 
<autumna> I used to use gnome a long time ago, but I just love the aesthethics of XFCE and lightness. too bad there is no wacom setup app. which for me is the primary drawback
<zequence> autumna: Are there wacom setup apps available?
<zequence> If there are, we should include them
<zequence> I heard about the wacom scripts, and there's a feature definition for it right now
<autumna> gnome and kde has them. theorically you CAN run them from xfce but I haven't figured out how
<zequence> autumna: But, aren't those specific applications, not a part of the DE itself?
<zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WacomScripts
<autumna> I have a rudimentary script to do screen switching that I wrote for myself but it needs to be adapted to various setups. (and at some point I started to write something to map keys which never got finished, because i never use the shortcut keys *chuckles*)
<autumna> oh wow!!!
<autumna> I had no idea there was a feature definition for that
<autumna> I have..  ideas
<autumna> a lot of ideas
<autumna> ok so
<zequence> If the Gnome solution is applicable in XFCE just by installing a package, that would be the best solution
<autumna> there is at least a gnome gui. to set up wacom. I heard good things about it, because apparently it can have per app settings which is pretty good. kde and unity. Unity I think has something, and kde has or had something.. 
<autumna> zequence: I tried installing it
<autumna> and I did
<zequence> ok
<autumna> but all the instructions that said how to get it to show on xfce4 settings
<autumna> or launch it manually resulted in an empty gnome settings window
<autumna> now I might have missed something in instructions or did something wrong but yeah.. 
<autumna> *is frustrated*
<zequence> Perhaps sakrecoer could be of the best help here
 * zequence doesn't have wacom
<autumna> maybe? 
<autumna> although he is also stuck
<zequence> I'd gladly help with the technical side of things, but can't do any sort of testing at all
<autumna> I was actually giving him some information about how to map wacoms to screen yesterday I think
<autumna> I can write a shell script to automize things, time allowing
<autumna> I would however need help with making that into an indicator. but yeah if we could somehow get the gnome wacom setting in and test that it would be great. 
<zequence> autumna: Could you add your script to the wiki page, please? In that case, add it under its own heading at the bottom, and to enclose code, use {{{ }}}
<zequence> The enclosion is the moin-moin version of <pre>
<autumna> gotcha
<zequence> Sadly, that means the sidebar doesn't play well with it
<autumna> hahah
<zequence> A particular problem in the packagin/dev section of the wiki, where the side-bar is really tall, and you actually want to include a lot of code
<autumna> fyi key part is incomplete
<autumna> read nonexistent :D
<zequence> autumna: What is the key part?
<autumna> setting keys
<zequence> Ah, ok. Perhaps we can help solve that.
<autumna> there is 2 options, one is for switching mapping, other is in future, for changing between keymappings
<autumna> well keymapping set would switch based on person
<autumna> hang on let me put up what I have first then I'll explain
<zequence> ubuntustudio-controls is meant to be a indicator app in the future, so it would not be impossible to add the wacom stuff as a plugin for it, but not sure it's the right way to go (the less choices in a app, the better, and with audio+graphics, that grows)
<zequence> We could have one indicator for audio, and another for graphics
<autumna> that would be great
<zequence> One of the good things about having sakrecoer as the project lead is that we'll have more focus on the graphics side of things for a while
<autumna> *nods*
<autumna> as an artist, it is something that I would largely appreciate :D
<autumna> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WacomScripts
<autumna> sakrecoer: I did put a version of the script to the above link if you want to use it. the screen mapping switch at least should be working unless there has been a syntax change since. 
<zequence> autumna: Nice work
<autumna> zequence: my suggestion would be, ideally, to get the ancient wacom-utility and fork it. it seems pretty easy to fix. from there we can add the toggle to swap screen setups (that can start as either one screen at a time, or all screens, or enter your own matrix for advanced users), set the xinput calibrator as a requirement and just launch it from there, until we can deal with it) what I have no idea how to do however is.. how to 
<autumna> :D
<autumna> ....and I will shut up now. 
<zequence> autumna: The important detail in this is that you know what is needed, technically. Then, of course, someone needs to implement that in some way
<autumna> :)))
<zequence> I can really not promise anything at this moment, but I would definetly be a candidate as far as coding and packaging goes
<zequence> I do think that sakrecoer could be of some help here too
<zequence> OvenWerks may be someone who could get this sort of thing done as well
<autumna> if you can handle the listening to grab the current app name, and device ID from the system.. 
<autumna> I can probably sort out a good portion of the script part, between 3 of us and anyone else who wants to pitch in, we might be able to pull this off
<autumna> 4 of us
 * autumna needs to watch the chatlog more carefully
<autumna> the nice thing is that the wacom_utility is written in python
<autumna> which means it is relatively easy to understand
<autumna> do you want me to also email this? 
<autumna> (this reminds me, I also need to write the thing to start the website content discussion. *grumbles* not enough hours in the day)
<zequence> autumna: you mean to the list? It wouldn't hurt - if someone else is interested in this, then it's good to know and helpful to get inpit
<zequence> input*
<autumna> *nods*
<zequence> autumna: This IRC channel is good for discussion, but we always use the mail list for important stuff, and it also reaches out to more people
<autumna> that makes sense to me.. I just wasn't sure at first how you guys did things
<autumna> (which wasn't helped by the fact that it was the eleventh hour of a release cycle ;D)
<zequence> A few things were extremely late this last cycle. That will probably never happen again :)
<autumna> hahah
<autumna> please don't jinx it
<autumna> please don't jinx it
<autumna> :D
<autumna> not late is always better :) 
<zequence> autumna: This time around it was pretty extreme
<autumna> ahha
<zequence> Mostly because of artwork though
<autumna> what happened with it? I mean obviously I know you had a contest
<autumna> but
<zequence> But, it turned out really wall in the end
<autumna> too many entries? 
<zequence> We had a contest for community wallpapers, but that's just an addition
<autumna> ah
<zequence> Me and Set ended up doing the default wallpaper
<autumna> ah
<autumna> its pretty
<zequence> That in itself ended up us having to change multiple packages
<autumna> and I love the spinning wheel. 
<autumna> *raises an eyebrow*
<autumna> wait why?
<autumna> *is confused*
<zequence> We just changed from naming the default wallpaper <name.something> to <ubuntustudio-default.png>
<autumna> ah
<zequence> Before, we had to change ubuntustudio-default-settings so it had the new wallpaper
<zequence> Also, the installer, ubiquity
<zequence> ..which is not ours
<autumna> aah
<zequence> And, the slide-show for ubiquity. The first image is the desktop
<OvenWerks> I use ssh for file transfer. Once one end has the server, open up thunar on the other end and if you have things set to have a file path box open (toolbar style) just go sftp::/othermachine/
<zequence> So, ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu had to be changed
<autumna> (hi OvenWerks!)
<zequence> autumna: We also changed the CoF, so ubuntustudio-icon-theme had to be changed
<OvenWerks> it ends up all DnD and I can edit files directly from the file manager
<OvenWerks> o/
<zequence> And, the plymouth theme was changed. The spinning CoF was Sets idea, but I had actually though of it before he voiced it
<OvenWerks> You can drag the folder icon in the url box to places and it will be one click to open next time (plus password)
<autumna> zequence: it was brilliant
<zequence> autumna: The blue looks really nice too, in the text logo. that was the work of madeinkobaia, our previous art lead
<autumna> it is very nice no seriously
<autumna> this distro is beautiful generally so I am not surprised overall
<autumna> :)
<sakrecoer> just read up on the back log
<sakrecoer> hi
<sakrecoer> i'll gladely help with wacom testing
<sakrecoer> autumna, zequence, i can write the email about website.
<zequence> sakrecoer: About the website?
<sakrecoer> content discussion for website
<sakrecoer> :)
<autumna> sakrecoer: I am just trying to write down a few personas.
<zequence> sakrecoer: Content discussion?
<autumna> but if you really want to do it I'll drop. 
<sakrecoer> also i have decided i will set up blue prints like xubuntu does. i need to keep track of things and its the perfect tool. including for bugs https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-y-xubuntu
<sakrecoer> autumna: i offer you to do it to unload you
<sakrecoer> if you prefer initiate it, be my guest :) 
<autumna> sakrecoer: I am 90% done with the email
<autumna> :D
<autumna> so trying to save you the burden that's all
<autumna> otherwise I am neutral you are the lead ;D
<sakrecoer> perfect then!
<sakrecoer> shoot :)
<autumna> ok almost done with both emails
<sakrecoer> autumna: both ? other one us about wacom?
<sakrecoer> *is
<sakrecoer> zequence: the websit content discussion autumna mentioned an hour ago or so :)
<autumna> yeah just the link
<autumna> that is not hard
 * autumna needs to talk less and write 2 more sentences more *laughs*
<zequence> sakrecoer: Ok, you mean the feature definition?
<sakrecoer> jumping in #us to catch up :) brb
 * zequence was thinking about http://ubuntustudio.org
<sakrecoer> zequence: the blueprints, i want to copy the xubuntu method
<autumna> lol
<autumna> omg I think the chat finally turned into a spagetti
<autumna> *is amused*
<sakrecoer> yes :D
<sakrecoer> i'll go res #us, use the knife for the spaghetti!
<sakrecoer> *read
<zequence> sakrecoer: Don't forget that Xubuntu only has a DE and not specific multimedia concerns
<zequence> But, I can see the benefit of having a singular blueprint only for bugs. Just a question of what should be included there.
<zequence> ..bugs to our source, or for the whole of Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> Ubuntu Studio in itself is the biggest OS amont all the flavors. We have the most packages, by far
<zequence> Xubuntu has a very simplistic goal, and much of that is based on XFCE
<zequence> We are in a whole another sense pioneers of what you can and should do with multimedia applications
<flocculant> sakrecoer: just because the way we use blueprints works for us - and bear in mind it's more or less using LP blueprints internally only - doesn't mean it would for anyone else
<zequence> sakrecoer: We already have all of what they have in the last cycle, but a lot more,
<flocculant> zequence: if you were going to say use a blueprint for bugs - I'd be inclined to only use it for those you have more chance of seeing action on 
<zequence> Question is rather, what should be in those blueprints?
<flocculant> we only list things like that on our bug bp
<zequence> flocculant: Like - the important bugs!
<flocculant> well yea 
<flocculant> but then again - a bug in ubiquity is important - but why list it :)
<flocculant> anyway - not anything to do with me - have enough trouble with my own bp's :)
<zequence> sakrecoer: This is why I'm saying - figure out what should we do for the next 6 months first - then decide how to organize it
<sakrecoer> exactly, also stuff that get easily overlooked
<zequence> So far, it's the old stuff plus some new
<zequence> De agnostic, ubuntustudio-controls, wacom-scripts
<sakrecoer> yes, and i need to have consistent way to keep track of them
<zequence> New website, new documentation
<flocculant> personally I would work out what's needed - then decide if you need a tool - then decide which
<zequence> exactly
<flocculant> kubuntu make a lot of use of trello for instance
<flocculant> we tried - but it didn't work well for the team
<sakrecoer> flocculant: exactly, and there are already 5 points zequence just listed
<flocculant> I use(d) that for our QA somewhat
<zequence> First decide what is going to be changed - make feature definitions of those. Then, decide which will be turned into blueprints, if needed
<sakrecoer> yes zequence but it will pile up
<sakrecoer> and i'd rather start sorting things from start
<zequence> Both DE-agnostic, and ubuntustudio-controls are two things that are beyond cycles, so those will happen whenever someone puts work into that.
<sakrecoer> then having a mountain of todos and risking to forget half of them
<flocculant> sakrecoer: yea - but what zequence is trying to say (I think) is work out what needs doing and then decide on the tool
<flocculant> rather than decide on the tool - then decide what to put in it
<flocculant> but
<sakrecoer> i understand that
<flocculant> I'm dragging myself in again lol 
<zequence> sakrecoer: The less, the better. And, if you can get ours to look as nice as Xubuntu's all cudos to you
<flocculant> https://trello.com/b/IV66JCHl/xubuntu-qa
<zequence> But, it's not like we have not been doing that already, just that we have more stuff
<flocculant> that's more or less empty now - but you can see how we used it
<zequence> flocculant: For some reason, I never found the way into Trello myself
<flocculant> neither did knome :)
<flocculant> to be honest - if the team is small and the items are few - a shareable doc works just as well as anything :)
<zequence> That's why in my view feature definitions is the most important thing
<flocculant> yup
<zequence> blueprints is just a list of tasks
<flocculant> yep
<zequence> You can't know the tasks until you first know what it is you want to do
<flocculant> of course not
<zequence> So, feature definitions! Plans!!!
<sakrecoer> :) i know, that is why there is whiteboard in the blueprints
<zequence> Yes, but again, blueprints are tied to launchpad, to project, to bugs, to all kinds of things. And, that is just what it can do, not what it does
<zequence> The feature definition explains what is to be done, and the blueprint organizes is, if needed
<zequence> Nevertheless, the absolutely most important thing is that we agree on what is to be done, and then no one gets to do otherwise without some discussion
<zequence> That is, something is documented on what is to be done, and the everyone follows that, until you can't and then there's discussion
<zequence> Otherwise, people will do whatever they feel like, and that won't work
<sakrecoer> yes, we agree on that
<autumna> ok emails sent.. - oh the backlog *goes to catch up*
<sakrecoer> i think that tool is perfect, and xubuntu is a great example of how. i mean feature definition is the whiteboard, todolist is tge work item, you can connect bugs and teams, i think it is great
<sakrecoer> this of course doesn't exclude things have to be discussed :)
<sakrecoer> i'm not planing on going solo here, i just want to keep track of all discussions in a comprehensible way.. well more comprehensible and dynamic then the wiki anyway
<sakrecoer> but i will think a little longer about your saying zequence :)
<zequence> Again, we didn't do things much differently. Just less people involved, and we had more blueprints, because we have more suff
<zequence> I chose not to register them to the Ubuntu project - no need, and better to couple them with the appropriate project
<zequence> There's nothing that can get broke though, so :)
<sakrecoer> :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-04-28
<trebmuh> hi sakrecoer 
<trebmuh> hi zequence 
<trebmuh> (olinuxx here)
<sakrecoer> hi!
<trebmuh> o/
<sakrecoer> :) its better to speak about packaging in here, or stuff from the devel mailing list :)
<sakrecoer> so we don't scare the artists off with funky computer words :D
<trebmuh> make sense :) sorry for the mess then ;)
<sakrecoer> nothing to be sorry about!!
<sakrecoer> on the contrary! nice with a little action boost :D
<sakrecoer> but then again, this channel exists, so lets take advantage of it!
<trebmuh> yep'
<sakrecoer> trebmuh aka olinuxx is the mastermind behind our french counterpart librazik
<zequence> Is that a continuation of Tango Studio?
<zequence> I remember I tried that distro, ardound 2008-2009 or something like that
<zequence> Maybe a little later, don't remember
<zequence> Was Ubuntu based at the time, I believe
<trebmuh> zequence, not officialy, but I did participate to tango a bit before being unable to continue participation due to a relocation in Australia for 3 years and a half (and a job, and so on)
<trebmuh> zequence, the first tangostudio was based on ubuntu yes, then the 2nd version switched to debian wheezy
<trebmuh> So LibraZiK is not a continuation (from my POV) but, it can be viewed as one (as a user POV)
<trebmuh> I'm focussing on imroving usability for francophone users ie : frenchised menu items, frenchised GUI (when I can) and french support through a IRC chan + forum on linuxmao.org (which I'm main admin of)
<zequence> trebmuh: Why not help Ubuntu Studio have that dimension as well?
<zequence> Mostly about translations and communication channels, like a french IRC, french mail list, french forum, etc.
<zequence> Changes to packages are either done in Debian, or if they are original Ubuntu Studio source - here
<zequence> We have had one or two being interested in doing something for Spanish speaking, but no one has ever done anything concrete for that
<trebmuh> I much prefer to make my own and collaborate when that make sense (like SSR maybe) since, I'm not stuck with bureaucraty :)
<trebmuh> same with debian :)
<zequence> Well, duplication of work
<trebmuh> not really
<zequence> But, your choice :)
<zequence> Why not do the work at the root instead?
<trebmuh> I'm sending patches upstream when that make sense
<zequence> ok
<trebmuh> both in debian and/or upstream project
<trebmuh> then it sailing back to ubuntu as well :)
<zequence> Yep
<trebmuh> in fact, I'm certainly already participating to ubuntu with this POV :)
<zequence> Sure. But, you are repackaging or doing new packages, so that is duplication of work
<zequence> trebmuh: How about licenses. Do you have anything non-free included?
<trebmuh> not really non-free stuff
<zequence> So, no linuxsampler, no flashplayer?
<trebmuh> no
<trebmuh> only stuff like madfuload / alsa firmware
<trebmuh> and wifi stuff on my live
<zequence> Ok, so it's not strictly free, in other words
<zequence> ..which makes it similar to Ubuntu
<trebmuh> but I much prefer spending my free time on free software
<trebmuh> well more or less :)
<trebmuh> I'm planning to make totally free live as well on a next release
<zequence> Ok, that's something that we can't offer for sure
<zequence> Well, at least not with current selection of packages
<trebmuh> what do you have as non-free in US ?
<zequence> There are some blobs in the kernel, such as wifi drivers
<zequence> And, we include the alsa firmware stuff as well
<trebmuh> "in the kernel" or as "external modules of the kernel" ?
<zequence> During installation you can add stuff like nvidia drivers and flashplayer, but, it's a choice
<zequence> Ubuntu packages the kernel a bit differently from Debian
<trebmuh> mmm ok
<zequence> It has never been fully free, I think. Debians didn't used to be either, in the past
<trebmuh> I'm packaging my kernel from the debian one + some improvements if I can
<trebmuh> I think the debian kernel are 100% since 2.6.x
<zequence> No, I think it was after that
<zequence> But, I could be wrong
<trebmuh> http://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html#Debian
<zequence> Anyway, nice chatting! Need to do some work :)
<trebmuh> from squeez in feb 2011
<zequence> Right, yep
<trebmuh> yep no worries, always happy to share knowledge and work :)
<trebmuh> I'll be sticking around if you're fine with it
<zequence> Of course! :)
<trebmuh> sweat
<sakrecoer> please do so trebmuh ! :)
<trebmuh> :)
<autumna> hi trebmuh! (waves hi to also sakrecoer and zequence before vanishing right back) 
<zequence> autumna: Hellp
<zequence> :) same error as before
<autumna> zequence that particular typo cracks me up every time. :D
<zequence> lol
<autumna> by the way I didn't forget the website discussion or any of the other stuff. got thrown an unexpected real life curveball, should be back sometime this weekend latest.
<autumna> is curveball the correct term?
<zequence> Well, I would assume everyone understood, so correct enough
<trebmuh> hi autumna 
<trebmuh> zequence, you're really good at user&jack troubleshooting, congrats :)
<autumna> :)
<zequence> trebmuh: I'm working on making ubuntustudio-controls take care of that in the future. Takes too long time for quite simple problems
<zequence> Most of it is in the slowness in information exchange
<trebmuh> I definitely do agree !
<trebmuh> zequence, so you're a coder ?
<zequence> trebmuh: I do some python. The current -controls was rewritten from scratch by me
<zequence> I have rewritten it again, but not finished. Doing the GTK without Glade this time
<trebmuh> great
<trebmuh> I hope that one day we will have a soft like this one, distro-agnostic
<trebmuh> It'd serve so much new-comers
<zequence> I'm planning on making an unbranded version of -controls
<trebmuh> but I remember using ubuntustudio control back on 10.04 or earlier and it was so good
<trebmuh> sweat ! great news !
<zequence> It's Debian based, currently, but it could do other distros too
<zequence> Yes, at the time it solved some problems
<trebmuh> zequence, if you would enjoy a debian tester for it, please let me know
<zequence> Now, it only adds realtime privilege, which is a problem on non audio distros
<trebmuh> yep
<zequence> trebmuh: I think you should be able to install it as is. Just get the deb and try it out
<trebmuh> will do, but what are the current feature ? only PAM configuration ?
<trebmuh> s/feature/features
<zequence> Yes, but it will detect if you are using something else - in which case it will not allow you to make changes to PAM
<zequence> Actually, that and adding/removing users from audio group
<trebmuh> ok
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-04-29
<zequence> Another application that is not in the repos https://github.com/surfacepatterns/synthclone
<zequence> Perhaps it would be a good idea to sum such up in a wiki page, and then someone of us could begin work on packaging for Debian
<zequence> I would like to, but haven't yet had the time or the momentum to complete that sort of work
<zequence>  Setting one up
<zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/NeedsPackaging
<OvenWerks> zequence: It is not clear how synthcone saves the samples. That is what sample player would one use to play the recorded samples? Do we have other SW for packing these samples into something sampleV1, Fluid or whatever. Packing for linuxsampler is not interesting as we can not include that. :P
<zequence> OvenWerks: I haven't looked yet, but I have a personal interest in that, so I will probably be looking more into it later
<flocculant> sakrecoer: can you find out from Ross what your plan is with the package tracker this cycle - I'm not convinced he has perms to set it up for yakkety - I do though I believe
<sakrecoer> flocculant: sure
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-05-01
<flocculant> sakrecoer: you've no builds on the isotracker - not that you use it much - so just a fyi
<sakrecoer> flocculant: thanks! spoke to ross also, he's looking into it. seemed like he got those privs in the end for xenial but he is gonna doublecheck
<zequence> sakrecoer: flocculant: About tracker privileges, would be best to add those to our -release LP team
<zequence> That way we can administer them ourselves
<flocculant> zequence: thought about that after the fact
<flocculant> -release team should have permission
<zequence> Yep
<flocculant> might not have knowledge - cos Ubuntu and manual is missing
<flocculant> last seen with Amelia :p
<zequence> Right, ok
<zequence> flocculant: We have access to some of the stuff for our -release team
<zequence> Not for test cases
<zequence> In the image you posted, I only don't see "TESTCASES" and "TESTSUITES", but I do see the rest
<flocculant> mm
<flocculant> something is up then I think
<flocculant> I took screenie with just xubuntu perms rather than website ones
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-04-28
<studio-devel688> ok i create music and can put together sweet drums and anything really but i am clueless to linux i have 12 years wrapped up in cubase and i hate windows with a passion and everything they stand for i'd love to help all i do is study vst instruments and sounds. i've mastered Midi files i can build sound packs and tell u 99% of the truth bout our history and i'd love to help out some kind of way. i'm considered cra
<studio-devel688> to this planet to me that's crazy...
<OvenWerks> ok..
<OvenWerks> what would you like to do?
<studio-devel688> like i could build some sweet drum kits to load into the drum machines or
<OvenWerks> The general feedback most people get for first things is testing always needs help... but sometimes people have more ideas.
<OvenWerks> so you would make packages?
<OvenWerks> Are you aware which kinds of drum "machines"/plugins are available in Linux?
<studio-devel688> i have bout 100 projects i've been building i should put out a few 2 hour bad ass releases in the next year
<studio-devel688> no i have never used linux cause i got 12 years work sitting in Cubase 
<OvenWerks> Right, in Linux the main drum machine for some time now has been hydrogen.
<studio-devel688> i have a friend that's Tempest Of Eden and he is well knowlegable for years he could help me out
<studio-devel688> one of my favorite elements
<studio-devel688> the carbon atom is 6-6-6
<studio-devel688> it's a human element
<OvenWerks> However, as things are moving towards more of a plugin world, there is the V1 drum plugin (old school basic), drumgizmo (as close to real drums as anyone is likely to get, AVLdrums, which is fluidsynth packaged with the AVL drum samples as an sf2. And there DRDR which is a plugin that uses the hydrogen drum sounds.
<studio-devel688> i've got an AMD A10-7890 with 32gb ram i will install Ubuntu studio in it. Do i install it by itself?
<OvenWerks> All of these plugins are LV2 plugins
<OvenWerks> you can
<OvenWerks> you can install it as dual boot if you already have another OS installed.
<OvenWerks> the istall disk will allow shrinking the other OS partitions to make room for a linux partition.
<studio-devel688> yes al;ot of people are buying samples and turning them on and off
<studio-devel688> no it's ready to be loaded i hate windows and i hate BG and Google too
<OvenWerks> you can also wipe the whole disk and install Studio.
<studio-devel688> i've got the last 16.? downloaded do i load it and update to 17 release or just get 17?
<OvenWerks> If you are planning to upgrade anyway, download 17.04
<OvenWerks> one step is better than two
<studio-devel688> yep got a 128 sandisk SSD already wiped got 2 1tb sitting in HDD
<studio-devel688> the A-10 7890 has video in the processor
<studio-devel688> ok i'm gon go download 17 and get this thing going i like the betterment of humanity attitude u guys and girls have 
<studio-devel688> i really have some amazing music i will research all things Ubuntu i became a nuclear health physic and a radio frequency engineer with a ged but my brain popped i feel so much better after it did
<studio-devel688> Soundcloud.com/GradyFloyd hopefully i can have this installed by the afternoon and i will come back here if i need 411
<studio-devel688> thank u nice talking to u RxEkz@Gmx.com
<studio-devel688> i didn't choose the devel 688 i don't know where it came from
<OvenWerks> freenode assigned it
<studio-devel688> 1 thing to consider. i'm learning how to record all the sounds out of an instrument and create my own synths from them i have an unbelievable amount of sounds 
<studio-devel688> the latest is taking 1 sound and creating an entire instrument from it the sky is the limit now go check out Native Instruments Form its the future of instruments
<studio-devel688> ok 17.04 is otw ttyl
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-04-29
<studio-devel394> Hell, isthere anybody to caht wit?
<studio-devel394> I
<studio-devel394> Hi is there any boy available for help & questions?
<studio-devel394> Oh Spell check.
<studio-devel394> How do I join the forum to contribute?
<studio-devel394> I am new on Linux.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-04-23
<eylul> OvenWerks: this is actually very useful information. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-04-24
<ErichEickmeyer> Strange question: Does anybody have access to the Ubuntu Studio G+ page?
<ErichEickmeyer> Maybe not strange, but still...
<krytarik> I believe only Set does again.. >_>
<krytarik> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PRSupportTeamPage - just for fun btw.
<ErichEickmeyer> krytarik: I see your wiki page and raise you a Launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-public-relations
<krytarik> lol
<ErichEickmeyer> (I'm the one posting on Facebook and Twitter lately.
<krytarik> Won't make much diff!
<ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, I know. :/
<krytarik> Yeah, I know.
<krytarik> Heh. >_>
 * ErichEickmeyer hears an echo
 * OvenWerks wonders what theat launchpad page is supposed to do...
<ErichEickmeyer> Well, it gave me access to post and edit on the web site...
<ErichEickmeyer> Or maybe that was here? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website
<OvenWerks> I was about to point to that one.
<ErichEickmeyer> Yeah.
<OvenWerks> The website team actually has code.
<ErichEickmeyer> G+ is obviously up to Set, and I'm sure he can set anyone as admin. That said, G+ is just an afterthought anyhow, but is still somewhat relevant in that the Linux/Open Source peeps seem to hang out there.
<ErichEickmeyer> It was just a curiosity, nothing more.
<OvenWerks> I don't have access there, just all the launchpad ones
<ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. I'm not going to say, "OMG!!1!! I needz teh accessez!". It was just a thought.
 * ErichEickmeyer shrugs
<ErichEickmeyer> I'm not even worried.
<krytarik> Well, it's absolutely valid, and in fact I'd like it too - same on Facebook, not got Twitter anyway though..
<ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, valid, but I'm not going to pursue it hard.
<ErichEickmeyer> Unless someone thinks I should.
<krytarik> Well, I've never persued any social stuff particularly hard myself.. >_>
<ErichEickmeyer> It's good for PR, and knowing where your target audience is at is a big piece of that, but as the saying goes, "Two out of three ain't bad."
<SlidingHorn> Is this an accurate statement (responding to an article that states in a somewhat unclear manner that Studio won't have an LTS): "Just to clarify, Studio will have an 18.04 release, however, it won't technically be LTS.  Effectively, since the software will be shared with mainline Ubuntu, you'll most likely still be able to receive support"
<OvenWerks> Yes. Normally one would expect backports for some of the major SW in an LTS, but that won't happen... but then it didn't last LTS either :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-04-25
<tarzeau> do you add fonts-league-spartan with 18.04 ?
<tarzeau> (kind of a quality futura clone)
 * tarzeau really thinks you should add protracker
<tarzeau> and mm3d 
<OvenWerks> protracker is not even in the ubuntu repos... though it is way to late to add anythingn to 18.04 anyway.
<OvenWerks> how is mm3d better or different than things like bleder?
<OvenWerks> *blender
<tarzeau> OvenWerks: it is
<OvenWerks> Not a worth while answer
<tarzeau> OvenWerks: supports some formats, that blender doesn't, and it's easy to animate characters 
<tarzeau> how is protracker not in ubuntu repos?
<tarzeau> what about the fonts-league-spartan font?
<OvenWerks> I don't know, maybe it is just not for 16.04
<tarzeau> yes it's not for 16.04. but from 18.04 on it's in, all the things i mentioned
<tarzeau> let me find something
<OvenWerks> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=protracker
<OvenWerks> Ya it's there since 1710
<tarzeau> got it:
<tarzeau> https://www.geekzone.fr/2018/01/30/nostalgie-fasttracker-ii-debarque-sur-macos-et-windows/
<tarzeau> http://cdm.link/2018/04/90s-alive-free-modern-clone-fasttracker-ii/
<tarzeau> ok it's ft2 clone, not pt clone, but same guys. and give more time, i might get ft2 also into linux debian and ubuntu (up to the authors)
<tarzeau> i didn't check, do you include hugin and enblend ?
<tarzeau> or do you have any software that you would like to add, but it's not packaged yet? (i can help on that)
<tarzeau> (of course, given it is free software)
<OvenWerks> From: http://cdm.link/2018/04/90s-alive-free-modern-clone-fasttracker-ii/ the line: âFT2 has been put on hold indefinitely. [â¦] makes one nervous...
<tarzeau> ah no worries. #protracker channel is very active, and full
<tarzeau> 8bitbubsy is loving to frighten people
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-04-26
<tarzeau> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/20180421.1/ release candidate url broken
<tarzeau> ah dropping the date, it works
<ErichEickmeyer> If anyone is good to test the latest daily, let me know how it goes. 
 * SlidingHorn just almost borked his system 
<SlidingHorn> I was shutting down applications while doing a full-upgrade and accidentally closed the terminal o_O
<flocculant> I assume you all know there's been a respin which needs smoketesting?
<OvenWerks> flocculant: how long ago... is it newer than one I downloaded this morning about 4 hours ago?
<flocculant> OvenWerks: yea - about 30 minutes ago
<flocculant> ish
<OvenWerks> I guess I will not finish the install with this one...
<flocculant> I think that sil was doing something studio type test for you earlier
<flocculant> OvenWerks: it's likely the issue causing the respin doesn't affect you - related to dconf/gsettings
<flocculant> afaik 
<OvenWerks> ya, but better to use latest.
<flocculant> indeed
<OvenWerks> reboot...
<flocculant> thought I would tell you all anyway - don't much see people talking studio in release - and I promised ErichEickmeyer I'd try and help some
<OvenWerks> flocculant: hopefully next cycle will see more activity. A lot of people showed up in the past month... we will see if they stick around
<flocculant> yea - I know I was about once helping ross setup testing - been reading your mailin glist - hope it all works out for you :)
<flocculant> OvenWerks: sil did a kvm test for you
<OvenWerks> I'll do a bare metal next
<flocculant> yea - generally better :)
<OvenWerks> I have a 19G partition for these things
<flocculant> I've some - just smoke testing in kvm now
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: daily tested ok. 64bit anyway. someone tested the 32 bit as well it says and passed.
<SlidingHorn> I won't be in town to provide any support, but I'm refreshing for the torrent whenever it pops up, and I'll be seeding it while I'm away :)
<flocculant> -release is actually more interested in whether to mark your iso ready or not 
<SlidingHorn> ErichEickmeyer: do you have a Release Notes article ready?  I can post it to the website once the iso hits the server
<SlidingHorn> (I lied...I can only log in - that's it so far)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-04-27
<ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn: I'm going to be working on that later this evening. I'm at work for about 4 more hours, so then I should be good.
<ErichEickmeyer> The ISO has hit the server. Working on release notes now.
<ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn: You have Wiki edit privileges, right?
<ErichEickmeyer> I need this edited, pretty much to include the same info as Artful: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
<ErichEickmeyer> We don't really have anything to add to the already-existing Ubuntu & Xubuntu notes.
<SlidingHorn> ErichEickmeyer: I'm loading them now...
<ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn: Awesome!
<SlidingHorn> Should I use the "Changes" section from the Ubuntu/Xubuntu releases?
<SlidingHorn> (I don't know what changes were actually made - got here late, lol)
<ErichEickmeyer> Nah, justs link to them. We have no actual changes, just newer versions of some packages.
<SlidingHorn> I'll just take it from the Beta2 page actually
<SlidingHorn> (that's still accurate, I assume)
<ErichEickmeyer> Packages specific to Ubuntu Studio really.
<ErichEickmeyer> Just the main ones need to be mentioned.
<ErichEickmeyer> flocculant: Yeah, it was marked hours ago.
<SlidingHorn> copy Xubuntu's "Notable Issues?"
<SlidingHorn> also, 9 month support cycle?
<SlidingHorn> Created - let me know if you need anything changed:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
<SlidingHorn> (also, should I update the link from the mainline Ubuntu release notes?  It links to the beta2 notes)
<SlidingHorn> nevermind - I changed it.  Once we get them posted on the official website, I'll update it to use that link instead
<SlidingHorn> ErichEickmeyer: let me know if there's anything else you want done - I leave early tomorrow morning for a family function and wont be back til Monday
<flocculant> ErichEickmeyer: it wasn't hours ago when I commented
<flocculant> anyway good luck you lot for 18.10
<ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn: Slight correction on Ardour: it's version 5.12, so simply remove the preceeding "1".
<ErichEickmeyer> Other than that, looks great! Thanks!
<SlidingHorn> done
<ErichEickmeyer> Keeping Xenial on the download page since we're still supporting it for another year.
<krytarik> Btw, one the download page, currently the download links that say 18.04 link to 17.10, and the other way around - ima fix that in a bit, alongside with updating the 16.04 links for the latest point release.
<ppreeper> hello
<ppreeper> does anyone here manage the ubuntustudio website?
<krytarik> Yes, what's up?
<ppreeper> the download urls for 64 bit bionic have artful in the reference, the 32 bit downloads work perfecly but the 64 bits dont
<ppreeper> just change the artful to bionic and it works perfectly
<krytarik> Ugh, yeah, another thing we've overlooked indeed - thanks!
<ppreeper> np, thanks for the work
<krytarik> ErichEickmeyer: LOL.. :D
<ErichEickmeyer> Fixed
<ErichEickmeyer> *facepalm*
<ErichEickmeyer> The most minor, yet major of details.
<krytarik> And this last one goes on me of course, because I didn't think of the codename in the URL when I replaced the version numbers.
<ErichEickmeyer> Oopsiedaisy.
<krytarik> Similar when I go download images of various flavors though - replace the flavor name at the end but not in the middle - though I believe I've gotten better there!
<krytarik> At once, I mean.
<krytarik> ErichEickmeyer: I've just spotted an "18.10 Direct" still. :D
<ErichEickmeyer> Oh no! Not our site?
<krytarik> Yes!
<krytarik> Pre-release!
<ErichEickmeyer> Annnd fixed.
<krytarik> Fliiip!  Yes, thanks.
<krytarik> Just fixed SlidingHorn's role on the WP too btw.
<krytarik> As per usual, the WP<->LP interaction failed to assign the proper one for him.
<krytarik> ErichEickmeyer: Fwiw, as it's something to keep in mind for the next time too, I also updated the support page earlier.
<ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, totally missed that.
<krytarik> Well, I believe we've missing that for a while before too. :P
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-04-23
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: It looks like -controls is not as clear as it should be. I am guessing that jack start/stop should also do an "apply"
<OvenWerks> or that any change should just do an apply
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That seems to be what I'm running into. People are expecting it to manage everything rather than simply configure.
<Eickmeyer> The mentality is that it runs in the background like qjackctl or cadence.
<OvenWerks> UI is not my strong part  :P
<Eickmeyer> It's mostly the new people that don't understand. People who have been running it for years understand the process.
<OvenWerks> It appears that adding firewire is a good thing. While the alsa FW stuff seems to work... it seems that A) alsa does not include the routing controls or preamp levels B) does not seem to connect to the ffado mixer
<Eickmeyer> Well, that's good, but unfortunate for those that rely on ffado mixer.
<OvenWerks> Adding FW will mean the ffado will allow mixer use. So  good reason to add it.
<Eickmeyer> Cool. BTW, 19.10 daily images have started spinning, in case you were wondering.
 * Eickmeyer is surprised, it usually takes a week
<OvenWerks> I have started a ubuntustudio-menu-add git repo on my machine... soon as it at least runs I will upload an alpha
<OvenWerks> From comments on the LAU list, it appears the modules can be switched live and perhpas qjackctl does this. (from people's comments)
<Eickmeyer> That wouldn't be a bad thing to implement.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: What does ubuntustudio-menu-add do?
<OvenWerks> a basic menu editor
<OvenWerks> It allows adding a new menu item such as script or maybe change where an application shows up
<Eickmeyer> Oh, okay, so it basically edits the xdg file in ubuntustudio-menu?
<OvenWerks> it is a *desktop editor
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I see.
<OvenWerks> So it adds a desktop file to ~/.local/share/applications/
<OvenWerks> if the name of the *desktop file is the same as one that exists then that effectively replaces the stock desktop file for that user
<OvenWerks> Changing the catagory will change where it shows up except for those we hard code :)
<OvenWerks> At this time I am not interested in adding submenus or the like.
<OvenWerks> Part of the problem with alcart menulibre is that they try to do too much.
<Eickmeyer> Yes.
<Eickmeyer> Kitchen Sink apps, if you will.
<OvenWerks> The fun part will be to find any *desktop file with the same name...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I just enabled the autobuilds for eoan, in case you were wondering.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-04-24
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: menu add...
<Eickmeyer> menu add...?
<OvenWerks> the last hour or so in #ubuntustudio..
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I saw that. Exact use case.
<OvenWerks> It points out the use of a menu item adder
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<OvenWerks> I actually think this is the normal (most frequent) use for other menu editors.
<Eickmeyer> I agree.
<studiobot> <Sakrecoer> @Eickmeyer [<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer: Thanks! Gave you some credit too, for your advice.], <3 i'm very grateful for that :)
<sakrecoer> i should really take the habbit to use IRC when i can though
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer: There's a reason I bridged Telegram. Makes it easier for everyone. Next up: matrix.
<sakrecoer> i think it was good move :)
<Eickmeyer> Though, in that case, I need krytarik to agree, which is like pulling teeth. :P
<Eickmeyer> Myself and M_aD are already using Matrix.
<sakrecoer> well krytarik is right, but sometimes the popular choice isn't. And we defenetly needed the community to grow, what better metaphore than a bridge to achieve that.
<sakrecoer> matrix bridge is a very cool next step! :)
<M_aD> i'm using Matrix/Riot just because the quassel core server i was connected to went offline.
<M_aD> i'm more of a irc guy as is without the matrix stuff :)
<Eickmeyer> Thing is, other IRC ops are way more lenient than krytarik, especially the council.
<sakrecoer> me too... originally... i just.. the older i get the less conservative i become. I suppose it is my taste for counter currrents lol
<sakrecoer> then again, not much conservative about IRC.... but somehow it scary to new, younger users at first. I can see why, even though i don't really see a reason for it being scarier
<sakrecoer> it just looks and feels more matrix like than say: matrix chat :D
<sakrecoer> anyways, sorry for OT jitter in the dev channel
<Eickmeyer> No worries. :)
 * Eickmeyer has to go run errands
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-04-25
<krytarik> Eickmeyer[m]: I'm not sure why you think we'd need to do anything to let Matrix users participate in the channel - isn't the very presence of the user I'm pinging right now as well as m_ad[m] in the channel proof that we don't?
<Eickmeyer> krytarik: Because there are futher integrations we can do on the Matrix end if we allow a single, solitary bot from the Matrix bridge.
<krytarik> Ah ok, didn't know yet.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Do you want to give it a shot in -offtopic?
<krytarik> Sure!
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Looks like we need to address bug 1826413 and possibly make it an SRU to disco.
<ubottu> bug 1826413 in ubuntustudio-controls "ALSA Jack Midi bridge off selection not surviving a reboot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1826413
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-04-26
 * M_aD wonders why the volume buttons don't work on the lenovo thinkpad T410 with Studio. Tested a Xubuntu 19.04 live session and there was no problem with them.
<M_aD> doh... was meant for the support channel... sorry
<Eickmeyer> M_aD: There's a weird, known bug with xfce4-volumed. If you type "killall -9 xfce4-volumed && xfce4-volumed" it should fix that.
<M_aD> Eickmeyer: thanks, that did it
<Eickmeyer> I have a script that does that on login.
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer: Is there any chance we'll be able to have you help with testing your firewire devices so that OvenWerks can get the firewire settings right in Controls? Right now, you're the only person we have that can help with that. Neither OvenWerks nor I have Firewire.
<Eickmeyer> That might be why it got neglected in Controls.
<sakrecoer> sure! i suppose we would have to set a date :)
<Eickmeyer> I'll leave that up to you two. 
<OvenWerks> "might be" he says...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: would "is" be a better term?
<OvenWerks> It is also why when there is only USB devices things don't work quite right
<OvenWerks> there are a coulple of things like that. Another is that pulse output device default to  hw:0 rather than jack master
<OvenWerks> (which is not even right for my system)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Are you seeing what sakrecoer is talking about in #ubuntustudio?
<Eickmeyer> You might want to read some backlogs.
 * Eickmeyer has to get his son ready for school, and then he has Linux Fest Northwest prep
<OvenWerks> I just started... it looks about like I would expect so far.
<sakrecoer> let me know whenever it works for you OvenWerks i'lldo my best to be available.
<sakrecoer> Fridays and sundays are the best
 * OvenWerks is off to breakfast with wife... back later
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the crash bug is what I will look for next
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ok
<OvenWerks> It may be enough to send dev as dev=",0,0"
<Eickmeyer> We might need to make some sort of defaults file to keep qjackctl from autostopping Jack at close.
<Eickmeyer> (probably a separate bug)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I don't know how we would do that. It may be better to have autojack check if jack is running... nope, it generally kills jack before it starts it. The bigger problem is qjackctl killing jackdbus on close.
<OvenWerks> Rosco2: can you check if changing line 367 from start_slave(dev) to start_slave(dev+",0,0")
<OvenWerks> will fix your crash problem?
<OvenWerks> Rosco2: sorry, that file is /usr/bin/autojack (you will need sudo)
<OvenWerks> That is not a real fix BTW, just a hack for testing :)
<OvenWerks> It may cause trouble somewhere else
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'll look into whatever config files can be made. Something in ~/.config should be telling. Sadly, I can't do that at present as I'm packing for Linux Fest Northwest.
<Rosco2> Sorry OvenWerks, I stopped for a gin an tonic - and it was a bit strong!
<Eickmeyer> Whoops! Rosco2 is getting tipsy!
<Rosco2> I just tried reproducing the crash before making the suggested changes and I couldn't.
<Rosco2> I might try again tomorrow when I am less tipsy :-)
<Eickmeyer> hehehe
<Eickmeyer> Good to see you in the chats, Rosco2. :)
<Eickmeyer> Wow, we've had Rosco2 and sakrecoer in IRC within 24 hours of each other!
 * Eickmeyer is putting the band back together. On a mission from God. *wears shades and a suit*
<Rosco2> You think it is staring jack with controls, opening Qjaclkctl, then quitting Qjackctl which stops Jack?
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: It might be, and then autojack is getting confused as it's looking at the configuration last left by Controls.
<Eickmeyer> That's just speculation, though.
<Rosco2> EIther I am dislexic - or drunk!
<Eickmeyer> Or both? XD
<Rosco2> One more try to crash it
<Rosco2> Baah. Why is it you only crash when you don't want to crash?
<Rosco2> I will sty the code tomorrow and try and work out how to crash it properly.
<Rosco2> study
<Rosco2> Nighty night!
<Eickmeyer> Good night! o/
 * Eickmeyer is out for the weekend, available sporadically
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: If you need me, just ping me with a @ in front of my name and it'll ping me on Telegram.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-04-27
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: should you see Rosco2... I am pretty sure the way to recreate the crash is to remove ~/.configure/autojackrc
<OvenWerks> However, by the time he does I should have fixed it anyway. It is about what I use for default values. While "default" is a valid audio device 0,0,0 is much more reliable.
<OvenWerks> lets see @Eickmeyer if this works. I am not sure what to do with the change log. Should it be wrapped in with what is commited so far? or new unreleased?
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Probably new unreleased since Ross uploaded to eoan already.
<OvenWerks> Thats what I did
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Perfect. He'll probably want to know via email or, perhaps, the bug marked as fix committed.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I'm in Bellingham, by the way.
<OvenWerks> been there a few times..... My son and I used to go there for piza
<OvenWerks> ok build started
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Yep Linux Fest Northwest going on here. tsimonq2 is here as well.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I'm about ready to get to bed.
<OvenWerks> Me too
<OvenWerks> GN o/
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Night o/
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: yet another change to controls to make sure even if device is saved in the file as default we correct it.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-04-20
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> that truckla is hilarious.
<Eickmeyer> Release candidate build is available at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<teward> Eickmeyer: be alive
<Eickmeyer> ERR:ISOTesting
<Eickmeyer> teward: What's up?
<studiobot> <teward001> ERR:PENDINGDMBMEETING
<studiobot> <teward001> TTM:5MIN
<Eickmeyer> Roger that.
 * RikMills opens popcorn
 * StevenJayCohen asks for popcorn
<eylul[m]> also would like some of that popcorn
<Eickmeyer> The show is in #ubuntu-meeting
<eylul[m]> thanks 
<Eickmeyer> eylul[m]: for you that would be #freenode_#ubuntu-meeting:matrix.org
<Eickmeyer> same with StevenJayCohen ^
<eylul[m]> sorry for the slow reactions. dealing with a rl related situation at the same time. 
<Eickmeyer> No worries.
<Eickmeyer> Just nice to see I have a bit of a cheering gallery. :)
 * RikMills triggers dramatic music
<eylul[m]> \o/ grats Eickmeyer
<Eickmeyer> Thanks!!!!
<Rosco2> \o/ congrats
<RikMills> :D
<eylul[m]> (hi ross!)
<Rosco2> Hi eylul[m] 
<eylul[m]> :)
<Rosco2> Eickmeyer, the extra packages we need in the package set might already be handled by the diff rafaeldtinoco pasted in the meeting?
<Rosco2> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6VsHCd6cnC/
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: Very likely, but there's a short list they want from me too.
<Eickmeyer> Thanks everyone!
<Rosco2> Time for a celebratory drink before bed!
<Eickmeyer> Haha!
<eylul[m]> :D
<Eickmeyer> I'm eating lunch. Sun is bright today. :)
<eylul[m]> very appropriate
<OvenWerks> so the big change in the daily iso is the rc?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: No, it's the Release Candidate.
<OvenWerks> rc= release candidate...
<Eickmeyer> Ohhhhhh
<eylul[m]> laughs
<eylul[m]> eickmeyer i think you are excused
<Eickmeyer> Basically, there's no difference between the RC and today's iso.
<eylul[m]> :P
<Eickmeyer> eylul[m]: I'm juggling. :D
<OvenWerks> good, I just dl it I will print usb sticks
<eylul[m]> print usb sticks?
<Eickmeyer> Well, don't be so hasty. They might make changes and respin.
<eylul[m]> is confused
<Eickmeyer> This is just for testing right now.
<Eickmeyer> In fact, I was in the middle of testing the ISO when teward reminded me of the DMB meeting.
<Rosco2> I'm off. See you for some testing tomorrow. That was exhausting cheering from the sidelines :-)
<teward> heh
<Eickmeyer> Hahahaha Rosco2! Thanks for being there.
<teward> glad you could stop by though Rosco2 :)
<teward> and sorry for dragging you from testing :)
<OvenWerks> How di they choose DMB? sounds too much like DuMB meeting
<Rosco2> :-)
<Eickmeyer> Developer Membership Board. It's nominated/elected by Ubuntu members.
<Eickmeyer> Our very own teward is part of it.
<StevenJayCohen> Sorry for missing the meeting -- emergency phone call
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: No worries. I was unanimously voted access to the package set.
<StevenJayCohen> Nice
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-04-21
<mancvso> Hi, i have a diff file to contribute about a bug in StudioControls.py, line 252 that causes a failure on Wayland. Where to contribute?  +python +git +github +launchpad
<OvenWerks> which package is that a part of?
<OvenWerks> I don't think we have that file
<mancvso> @OvenWerks "ubuntustudio-controls" says apt-file
<OvenWerks> ubuntustudio-controls should not have any file that ends in .py
<OvenWerks> anyway if you do ubuntu-bug ubuntustudio-controls
<OvenWerks> it should file a bug report where a patch can be attached
<Eickmeyer> ^ Seems legit. /s
<Eickmeyer> StudioControls.py isn't even a file we have anywhere.
<mancvso> Hi, me again (Had to reboot and re-grub). If ubuntustudio-controls has an improvement, can I just submit a push/pull request with accompanying tests?
<OvenWerks> anyway if you do ubuntu-bug ubuntustudio-controls
<OvenWerks> it should file a bug report where a patch can be attached
<OvenWerks> filing a merge request is fine too
<zingzingy> Does anyone know if the LTS release is still on for the 23rd?
<RikMills> yes, it is
<zingzingy> Thanks much!  
<StevenJayCohen> So, if someone has a UbuntuStudio already installed as their distro (including XFCE) what would happen if 20.10 came around and the new version defaults to Plasma? Would a pre-installed, older XFCE version somehow switch to Plasma? or would it upgrade the components and stay on XFCE?
<StevenJayCohen> Or, would the end user be given a choice during the upgrade? (If possible, I like this option).
<StevenJayCohen> I've adopted @ei
<StevenJayCohen>  * I've adopted the Ubuntu is Ubuntu saying and I've used it as much as I can. But people are really loyal to their flavours.
<StevenJayCohen> Last question on this: I think Eickmeyer  made better choices when assembling his XFCE desktop than the Xubuntu team did with theirs. They were small things, but they definitely made more sense (to me at least). But because of that Studio - StudioStuff != Xubuntu. So, if the Plasma migration does happen will the non-studio components all be the same as the Kubuntu choices?
<StevenJayCohen> Essentially, for 20.10 will Studio - StudioStuff == Kubuntu?
<prasaugus> #ubuntustudio-devel Can Figma be included in the Ubuntu Studio?
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: To answer your first question, the Lubuntu team has (and is currently) going down this road as they switched from LXDE to LXQt for 18.10+: We are going to warn people that upgrading from 20.04 might cause breakage and will be unsupported.
<Eickmeyer> That shouldn't affect those that use ubuntustudio-installer.
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: To answer your second question, I'm still working on that. Trying to decide if I use Materia/Papirus or Breeze. I'm leaning toward the former, but it will also require Kvantum be installed, which isn't hard to do.
<StevenJayCohen> I figured that you had already thought about this. Good to know
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-04-22
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer[m]: StevenJayCohen is the newest member of the team. He's handling some Reddit moderation, but I have more "plans". *evil grin*
 * StevenJayCohen glances innocently around the room and gulps loudly
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: :D
<StevenJayCohen> Eickmeyer: Using Papirus Dark with Materia-dark-compact and really loving it
<StevenJayCohen> (see how I amateurly attempt to change the subject?)
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: It's really beautiful. I chose it because until 19.04 the theme (Numix Blue) and icon set (Elementary, aka whatever Xubuntu uses) was looking really dated. We needed something more modern and aesthetically pleasing for a product that targets creative-types.
<Eickmeyer> It just seemed to fit the bill.
<StevenJayCohen> Well defined, unified, and not distracting from what I'm working on.
<StevenJayCohen> I wrote themes for macOS 10.3-6
<Eickmeyer> Exactly. Also, Numix Blue didn't have a dark variant, and Materia is similar but has slightly cooler tones.
<StevenJayCohen> macOS had a lot of the same problems around 10.5 too many looks, too many things meaning too many different things
<Eickmeyer> macOS was very much in a transition back then. Going from brushed metal (10.3) to the smooth gray (10.4) to a more flat-like look in 10.5 and onward.
<StevenJayCohen> This was my "solution" (long before dark themes): https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/19074/iridium
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, for the time, that's not bad.
<Eickmeyer> The other thing about Numix Blue is that the team here was directly maintaining the code. I'd rather have offloaded that, so I just chose a theme that was already in the repos. I think Numix Blue will be removed from its source package (ubuntustudio-look) this next release.
<StevenJayCohen> It was limited by the goal of the project. I could only implement things if they could be done to Classic, Carbon, and Cocoa apps.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. macOS was definitely a mess back then with classic, carbon, and cocoa intermixed.
<StevenJayCohen> So, for the few icons that are unique to Ubuntu Studio, do you commit them as changes to Papirus? or maintain something downstream?
<Eickmeyer> Well, the only ones that are really unique anymore are simply the distributor-logo icon (the Ubuntu Studio logo) and the stuff included in ubuntustudio-menu, which only works with actual menus (not GNOME).
<Eickmeyer> Someone else made an ubuntustudio-controls icon in Papirus, which is really just a gray version of the white-on-black Ubuntu Studio logo.
<StevenJayCohen> They don't work in gnome's app search?
<Eickmeyer> The ubuntustudio-menu's purpose is to organzie the various applications into custom menus consisting of Audio Production, Graphics Design, and Video Production with submenus, all using freedesktop.org's X Desktop Guidelines (XDG).
<Eickmeyer> It does also add a "help" menu with some links to the chat room and askubuntu.com among other things.
<StevenJayCohen> I wish it would be allowed to make gnome app folders. It just makes sense -- based upon the goal of the Flavor
<Eickmeyer> I could look into that, but I'll admit it's not a priority. It might be doable.
<StevenJayCohen> By default, there is a Utulities Folder in Gnome. An Audio, Graphics, Video, etc folder if one uses Ubuntu Studio Installer, just makes sense.
<Eickmeyer> Yep, I agree. Could probably be added to ubuntustudio-menu if I could figure out how to do that.
<StevenJayCohen> Eickmeyer:  I think I just found out how to do it: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1091972/how-do-i-create-app-folders-in-the-gnome-application-menu#answer-1099604
<sakrecoer[m]> Good to know the team is growing! @eickmeyer:matrix.org @stevenjaycohen:matrix.org :)
<StevenJayCohen> He's adding an entry AV
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: Ah. Well, that might do it, just means a gsettings-override file then. Might be able to get that in for 20.10.
<Eickmeyer> Maybe even backport it.
<StevenJayCohen> Gnome has been growing on me. I do everything by search, not menu. The studio recording machines are still on UStudio XFCE but my laptop is straight Ubuntu with UStudio added.
<Eickmeyer> Yep! Myself, OvenWerks, and eylul[m] have been using Kubuntu with Studio added. I'm glad that workflow is working for you as it will help to figure out how we can support the GNOME desktop better.
<StevenJayCohen> I don't mind being the Gnome guy on this. It's just odd since I started on SuSE/KDE back in the early 2000s: https://www.stevenjaycohen.com/2003/11/01/keramik-pearl/
<Eickmeyer> Heh, KDE (Plasma now) has come a LOOOOONG way.
<StevenJayCohen> SuSE to Fedora to Ubuntu (Feisty Fawn)
<StevenJayCohen> Plasma is fantastic
<Eickmeyer> In my case, Slackware in 1996 to Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid Ibex) to a bunch of distrohopping to simultaneously Ubuntu/Fedora.
<StevenJayCohen> Before SuSE, I got to use an OpenStep machine at NYU. So, oddly, OSX before it was OSX was my first real unix.
<StevenJayCohen> They let us Set/Lighting/Sound Design people use machines that the Architecture Students mostly used.
<StevenJayCohen> Always admire the Slackware users! I showed my son Slackware (he's at UMass in CS). He was overwhelmed and went back to Mint.
<StevenJayCohen> He's planning on leaving Mint for Arch Linux.
<Eickmeyer> Yep, did Arch. My only problem with Arch is that if you don't keep on top of it with the updates, it can break while updating later.
<StevenJayCohen> Which is why he's still on Mint (I think). Lots of social pressure in his peer group at UMass not to use Ubuntu. I'm trying to learn more about that. At first I thought it was because there is a lot of RedHat in the greater Boston area, but he tells me that's not it.
<Eickmeyer> Probably because of the FSF in the Boston area. Richard Stallman has been known to call Ubuntu "Spyware" based on the amazon search being in Unity. That, along with the Amazon affiliate link, have since been removed, so that argument is now completely unfounded.
<OvenWerks> me still likes the motif window decorations 
<OvenWerks> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/uoN7cT6HW4iPEmq2e2DxoBWPMAm1qUlrD57HjKSw7d8afST8rvaJCYHVXDqP6l9DRf8IxXXqqZ2E6hFfHzVueyObNisvaLDB3zK-
<OvenWerks> gee thats a long url...
<OvenWerks> heres a shorter one: http://www.opengroup.org/graphics/desktop/m-dnd.gif
<OvenWerks> I wouldn't use those colours, but I like the window handles being clearly visible and the window decorations automatically draw the eye to the window with focus
<OvenWerks> Studio should have a "Retro" theme  :)
 * StevenJayCohen uploaded an image: image.png (263KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/YSRGGvItoDbrrXWyEgcyxoTD >
<StevenJayCohen> So, Motif in Black and Grey maybe? Why not something like this ð 
<StevenJayCohen> I don't think it gets more retro than that
<OvenWerks> actually retro would be steel blue window decorations for unfocused windows and faded red for focused windows
<OvenWerks> here is a comercial example: http://www.xwinman.org/screenshots/dtwm.gif
<OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: the main thing is this from when desktops were designed bsed on workflow for business use rather than a "beautiful desktop" that is only good for browsing or other full screen apps. There are good points for having both beauty and good workflow... but gnome session to me defeats both. The big one being it is painful to use and it lacks the configurability to suit a denser use 
<OvenWerks> workflow. It has the standard gnome "our way is the only way" attitude.
<OvenWerks> (did they get it from microsoft?)
<StevenJayCohen> The unfocusing of other windows in that image is a cool idea, just blurring the whole thing out
<OvenWerks> yes for someone who might have 10 or more windows across two screens at any one time, there is really no other option
<OvenWerks> The standard (for X) focus follows mouse that all DEs seem to want to trun off these days, is much better for work flow too. It allows easy typing in a window without bringing it to the top and covering whatever I was looking at while typing.
<StevenJayCohen> Sometimes, limited resources lead to truly interesting ideas like this. Well, with Moore's Law broken, we might start to see innovation like this again in the next few years.
<Eickmeyer> Another RC is ready for testing.
<Eickmeyer> Yesterday's was fine, but I know the release team has been working on a huge bug with subiquity (the server Ubiquity).
<StevenJayCohen> checking the RC now...
<Eickmeyer> I've just been informed that new spins are coming, hopefully these will be the last ones.
<StevenJayCohen> caught me in time, I'll wait. Where's the bug I am looking for?
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: The bug in question doesn't affect us.
<StevenJayCohen> oh
<Eickmeyer> It affected the Ubuntu Server images.
<StevenJayCohen> ah
<studiobot> <teward001> i missed a bug that affects Server?
<studiobot> <teward001> o.O
<housecat> -release has been talking about a subiquity bug all morning, so i guess so :P
<Eickmeyer> Gdflk7sj
<Eickmeyer> dsfsdf
<Eickmeyer> Ugh... sorry about the dog.
<Eickmeyer> Ok, we have a new RC (hopefully the one and only): 20200422
<OvenWerks> is there a difference in the checksum from the last one?
<Eickmeyer> Yes.
<OvenWerks> K
<OvenWerks> oh yeah 4.6% diff
<OvenWerks> kubuntu has bigger diff... but maybe that is just smaller ISO size
<Eickmeyer> RikMills knows more about that.
<Eickmeyer> Our diff is likely some Ubiquity, mesa, and kernel stuff.
<RikMills> I would say much the same
<OvenWerks> well if our iso is double the size and their diff is almost double too...
<RikMills> there ya go then
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, then it makes sense. Smaller amounts = bigger percentages.
<RikMills> I had 8.8% diff
<OvenWerks> yeah about that
<OvenWerks> WOW there is even a CDE / Motif theme for KDE
<OvenWerks> actually it says gtk3
<OvenWerks>  at the kde store
<Eickmeyer> There might be a Qt theme too.
<OvenWerks> 'An elegant desktop, from a more... civilzed age.' it says
<Eickmeyer> Hehe
<OvenWerks> how come we have cds set to auto mount? very anoying when trying to install and totem (or something popsup out of no where and starts playing the cd... would be even more anoying in a studio I think.
<OvenWerks> recomend nothing to automount or at least nothing to _do_ something with that mount
<OvenWerks> The theme while looking ok has no diserable differensiation between focus and not
<OvenWerks> there is just almost a slight difference in text brightness.
<OvenWerks> slide show is up to date this time :)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I was thinking of you when updating the slideshow.
<Eickmeyer> Oh, and... bad news. New spins heading our way. >.<
<OvenWerks> oh well... just about installed
<Eickmeyer> New one won't need a smoke test per Wimpress.
<OvenWerks> can confirm that partial install is _fixed_ (like a cat?)
<Eickmeyer> Heh
<Eickmeyer> So, the CD automount thing I think is something we inherit from Xfce.
<OvenWerks> yeah, it is one of those things that has no place in a studio...
<Eickmeyer> Plasma doesn't automount by default. It lets you know something is there, but doesn't mount.
<OvenWerks> but might be expected for the rest of our workflows (shrugs)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. We can't be too audio-centric here.
<Eickmeyer> Er, shouldn't be too audio-centric.
<OvenWerks> it is something that shold be at least shut of on the live ISO even if it is alive on the install.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-04-23
<Eickmeyer> Well, too late now.
<OvenWerks> window handles are pretty narrow and impossible to grab
<OvenWerks> there, fixed...
<OvenWerks> xfce4-color-settings just crashed... maybe I give it nothing to do :)
<OvenWerks> but it seemed to crash on applet exit so maybe a false positive
<Eickmeyer> It's a false positive and a known issue upstream.
<Eickmeyer> The window handle issue is also known, and it's not necessarily theme specific.
<OvenWerks> hmm moving to a new theme seemed to help.
<OvenWerks> but then I have always switched to something with wide borders off the top
<Eickmeyer> Yes, but the Xfce developers know that they need to have better window management in Xfwm to handle any theme.
<Eickmeyer> Even Graybird (Xubuntu's theme) has the same issue.
<Eickmeyer> And it's considered Xfce's standard.
<OvenWerks> I use Moheli
<Eickmeyer> Yes, but you go for function over form.
<OvenWerks> (with Numix colours)
<OvenWerks> Gives me a nice orange title bar
 * OvenWerks installs synaptic
<OvenWerks> none of the menu icons are oversized this time even from right click on the desktop
<Eickmeyer> Status on respin and everything is here and gets updated as they go: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/focal-fossa-20-04-lts-final-release-status-tracking/15366
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: BTW, the plymouth screen on ISO live boot is different from shutdown and install startup
<OvenWerks> I don't know if thats good or bad
<Eickmeyer> Plymouth or grub? Do you mean the progress bar?
<OvenWerks> but it does give a lot more info while booting
<OvenWerks> ya progress bar instead of spining dot
<Eickmeyer> That's just for the validation check. I had nothing to do with that, and it's not part of a normal boot.
<OvenWerks> I figured I was just surprised (twice)
<OvenWerks> I like the CDE theme. Reall easy to grab handles
<StevenJayCohen> I agree, I think defaulting to nothing makes more sense
<StevenJayCohen>  * I agree, I think defaulting to not mounting CDs makes more sense
<OvenWerks> as Eickmeyer said it seems kde already does this
<OvenWerks> here is the theme I am trying: https://imgur.com/0RK9566.png
<OvenWerks> There are some things not quite right with it. when I took the screen shot, I selected area and then the whole screen went grey so I had to guess at the area.
<OvenWerks> I am guessing it doesn't handle alpha very well
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: we lost simnple scanner? it got renamed? we got something better?
<OvenWerks> simple scanner got renamed
<OvenWerks> and it does not follow the desktop theme.... it has been gnomed....  :P
<OvenWerks> the window handles are impossible to grab
 * OvenWerks hopes plasma comes with a better scanner app
<Eickmeyer> !info skanlite focal
<ubottu> skanlite (source: skanlite): image scanner based on the KSane backend. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.1.0.1-2 (focal), package size 2141 kB, installed size 2901 kB
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ^
<OvenWerks> that is what comes in kde?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: By default? I don't know. RikMills? ^
<OvenWerks> if it's better we can add it next cycle
 * OvenWerks is loading kubuntu next
<OvenWerks> anyway, everything seems to work despite all my drama...
<Eickmeyer> Heh
<RikMills> OvenWerks: yes, skanlite
<StevenJayCohen> <OvenWerks "here is the theme I am trying: h"> That is a nice CDE theme.
<StevenJayCohen> This is sort of the KDE of where we're at now: https://store.kde.org/p/1229134/
<StevenJayCohen> wow, people will do anything if you let them: https://store.kde.org/p/1157516/
<RikMills> StevenJayCohen: you can still build and run CDE on Ubuntu!
<RikMills> OvenWerks: ^
<StevenJayCohen> I do love that
<StevenJayCohen> You're making me want to play with GNUStep stuff again. Stop it!
<RikMills> StevenJayCohen: https://i.imgur.com/alS8LhF.jpg
<RikMills> real CDE on bionic
<StevenJayCohen> scrollbar doesn't look right
<RikMills> that is because firefox uses the gtk one, no matter what the system thinks
<StevenJayCohen> foo
<StevenJayCohen> I do like Materia, even Materia-KDE
<RikMills> new build for you lot coming soon
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: I'm awake, and smoke testing here shortly.
<Eickmeyer> (was up at 3am yesterday, my body seemed to think it's a good idea)
<RikMills> tsimonq2 is just living UK time today :P
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2 is insane, and I'm missing his presence at LFNW this year. Really, missing everyone at LFNW this year.
<tsimonq2> RikMills: So, I've been up since 2 PM yesterday. It's now 5 AM.
<tsimonq2> I'm actually trying (and failing) to reach a stopping point to go get another energy drink.
 * RikMills hands you a redbull
<tsimonq2> I already have a case, but thanks. :P
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Insomnia sucks a fat one.
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: No, I did this by choice.
<Eickmeyer> Oh!
<RikMills> LOL
<Eickmeyer> Well, in my case it's insomnia.
<tsimonq2> True.
<tsimonq2> I've found... other ailments if I can't fall sleep for more than like 30 mins.
<RikMills> 'SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK'
<tsimonq2> ^^^
<StevenJayCohen> Ha
<tsimonq2> "I don't sleep, I just rest my eyes."
<Eickmeyer> I guess I'll sleep when I'm dead.
<tsimonq2> Precisely.
<StevenJayCohen> you guys deserve a brain break
<StevenJayCohen> (I mean that in a good way)
<StevenJayCohen> sot of a brain spa... that doesn't sound much better
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: In case you're wondering, tsimonq2 mostly leads Lubuntu. Mostly. :D
<tsimonq2> StevenJayCohen: I schedule my time off.
<StevenJayCohen> I just installed Lubuntu on a Dell Netbook, kudos tsimonq2 !
<tsimonq2> When I'm not grinding for cash to throw into these markets or hacking away on some project that may or may not include Lubuntu, I do sometimes relax. Sometimes.
<tsimonq2> StevenJayCohen: :D
<tsimonq2> Yeah, I may or may not be the Team Lead.
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Oh and btw, something something sphinx not going in, something something stuck in proposed, something something ping Eickmeyer.
<StevenJayCohen> I need breaks, without them, on some issues, I just spin my wheels. I'm that guy who falls asleep with a problem and wakes up with an idea
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: I was raging at the CI when I read that, so best to just go check out release.
<StevenJayCohen> tsimonq2: Team lead and team then? I've been there (1 man dept)
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: I saw, and something something respin being smoke-tested...
<tsimonq2> StevenJayCohen: I figured out that by carefully planning my breaks and relaxation, I about double my productivity. I bet RikMills can imagine me at double speed...
<tsimonq2> StevenJayCohen: Nope, our team has about 10 official members and 15 others that I'd say take care of various things.
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Throw it at the wall. Hard. Did it break? No? Ship it.
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: That's about where I'm at with it. If it boots, it's good. :D
<RikMills> tsimonq2: yikes!
<Eickmeyer> It won't take me long to test. 90% SSD setup here now.
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Also, re: sphinx, looks like they pushed it through.
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Right. :)
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: sphinx> Nice.
<tsimonq2> RikMills: That's what I've been up to the last few months, testing myself and my limits.
<Eickmeyer> sphinx = something in Egypt (I don't use it, but it looks interesting)
<RikMills> tsimonq2: hopefully non-destructive testing
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: I think it's funny that they ping you about that but Lubuntu and Kubuntu are the flavors who actually use it.
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Right??
<tsimonq2> RikMills: Non-destructive generally, yes. For me? No comment.
<Eickmeyer> OMG... "The download doesn't use SSL!" "Then verify the checksum" "But that could've been compromised too!" *facepalm*
<RikMills> sigh
<tsimonq2> Some people's kids.
<Eickmeyer> I'm about ready to punt this person.
 * RikMills gets popcorn and joins
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: Meh, they're gone. They didn't know today is release day for 20.04, which means they're living under a rock and not paying any attention anyhow.
<RikMills> lol
<StevenJayCohen> Just read the thread sigh
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. I don't think I've facepalmed so hard in my entire life.
<StevenJayCohen> Very interesting, Kubuntu is #2
 * StevenJayCohen uploaded an image: image.png (65KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/BfOtecVmJrPEkezXrDjomAkt >
<RikMills> o_O
<Eickmeyer> BTW, with the release announcement for Ubuntu Studio will also be the announcement of switching to Plasma for the next release.
<RikMills> :D
<StevenJayCohen> <RikMills "o_O"> Just assume that everyone who checked Official Ubuntu also checked one of the others as well and the numbers make more sense.
<RikMills> still, I would have expecterd mate
<RikMills> but hey :)
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: "U MeAN I cAn LiKe MOrE ThAN 1??!?"
<StevenJayCohen> Plasma is slick. Despite what the owners of KDE do to undermine it, they can't kill the slickness of it.
<OvenWerks> why does plasma want to open every html:// in gwenview? which then fails anyway
<StevenJayCohen> You sound like me complaing about evince
<OvenWerks> looking at this: https://store.kde.org/p/1229134/  how does the user figure out which window has focus?
<Eickmeyer> Shade of titlebar text.
<OvenWerks> totally useless
<Eickmeyer> Length of shadows.
<OvenWerks> to me both windows look the same
<OvenWerks> decorationwise
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: If we used the themes you like, nobody would ever download Studio because aesthetics is what sells.
<OvenWerks> Ack! I press the centre mouse button on the desktop and now I have a paste it note I can't get rid of
<Eickmeyer> O_O
<Eickmeyer> Press/hold with left button anywhere on that note, it will give you a close box.
<Eickmeyer> Cool trick, though.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: this is one place where instead of themes having a tool that would allow just changing the colour of the window decorations
<OvenWerks> (like there used to be)
<Eickmeyer> Uhhh... there is something built-in to the Plasma Settings Manager that lets you color anything any color you want.
<OvenWerks> the theme itself is whatever people like and I am ok with that.
<OvenWerks> but usability should not require going through every theme in the world and trying them all out
<OvenWerks> I am not sure there still is such a tool. It seems to me a year agho I could find it
<Eickmeyer> Well, Breeze is pretty obvious which window has focus (dark titlebar vs light).
<OvenWerks> That one is better yes
<StevenJayCohen> So, again Vimix isn't much different than Materia but it uses the red yellow green dots (think macOS) as window decorations that go grey when not in focus. It's accompanying icon theme has some positives, but isn't what I'm talking about here.
<OvenWerks> and the handle width, even if not visible still seems to be easily grabable
<StevenJayCohen> Breeze is also more standard
<Eickmeyer> So, if you go to System Settings > Application Style > Window Decorations, there's a pen in the corner of each theme. Go to your active theme and change it to whatever color you want.
<OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: nothing is standard
<OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: or to put it another way, what is standard is so different from one year to the next, no one can keep up with it
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ah, when I hover over the theme the pen shows up.
<Eickmeyer> Exactly.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: well some themes have more options than others...
<Eickmeyer> Probably true. I haven't done it myself except with Breeze on Fedora, because Fedora's KDE spin uses blue titlebars.
<OvenWerks> breeze has the most options and thge only colour I can change is the colour of the shadow
<StevenJayCohen> What I meant by standard is that Breeze is a KDE theme with optional GTK stylings whereas MAteria is a GTK theme that has optional KDE styling. So, for a KDE distro to choose Materia as a default seems non-standard.
<Eickmeyer> Oh shoot... wrong place.
<Eickmeyer> System Settings > Colors > Edit to your hearts content.
<StevenJayCohen> And, I really like Materia, it's my default and will stay my personal default
<StevenJayCohen> I do find it odd that we are talking Gregarious Gastropod on Focal Focca's release day
 * OvenWerks was finished with the release a while ago  :)
<Eickmeyer> Giddy Gnu
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: odd thing happening. kubuntu with Studio on top.
<Eickmeyer> Oh?
<OvenWerks> after install there are a pile of applications listed as no longer required... 
<Eickmeyer> Which applications?
<OvenWerks> many of them are xfce packages so I am not worried about those
<Eickmeyer> Oh, that makes sense.
<OvenWerks> but: papirus-icon-theme ubuntustudio-icon-theme?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That seems odd. Did you install ubuntustudio-icon-theme from -installer?
<OvenWerks> yes
<Eickmeyer> I'll have to test.
<OvenWerks> as part of one of the packages
<OvenWerks> branding maybe?
<Eickmeyer> Branding maybe.
<Eickmeyer> I'll take a look. If one uninstalls materia, it would render all of Branding not needed.
<Eickmeyer> Which means anything it has as a depends would be not needed.
<OvenWerks> hmmm, after I have selected one of the Studio icon themes a bunch of icons have vanished
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Might need a log out/in.
<OvenWerks> The gtk3 windows still look goofy but at least plasma forces the BG colour
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, that's one thing that's nice about it. You can select any GTK theme and the color preferences transfer now.
<Eickmeyer> GTK2 doesn't respond that way, an unfortunate limitation of GTK2.
<OvenWerks> Well kubuntu has native applications for just about averything
<Eickmeyer> Yep. Pretty much.
<OvenWerks> I happen to like the gtk version of sudoku
<OvenWerks> wierd, system setting does not seem to have a tool for setting the desktop backdrop. I have to left click on the desktop for that.
<dax> i like the sudoku version that's in sgt-puzzles. some other great stuff in there too
<dax> not sure what toolkit the version in ubuntu uses, it's gtk3 on my gentoo
<OvenWerks> forgot about that one.
<Eickmeyer> I like the Solitaire (KPatience). It's nice and smooth.
<OvenWerks> yaeh I install that in xfce
 * OvenWerks fixed his middle button
<OvenWerks> fstab fixed, time for a reboot
<Eickmeyer> https://ubuntustudio.org/2020/04/ubuntu-studio-20-04-lts-released/
<StevenJayCohen> Eickmeyer: When you have a chance, could you replace the PH in my name with a V? I'd appreciate it. Guessing you have a friend or family member that's a PH Stephen.
<StevenJayCohen> Thanks for the mention :)
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: Hey, you're part of the team now, so don't mention it. Honestly, no clue where I got the PH from; in the second mention about your studio I managed to get it right. :D
<josefvin> congrats to you all. Anybody taking a break before working on next release? :P
<StevenJayCohen> Thank you
<StevenJayCohen> Seeing this: Community +linuxallstars:matrix.org not found
<StevenJayCohen> Can't join it shrug
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-04-24
<Eickmeyer> josefvin: I'm taking a break.
 * Eickmeyer is exhausted
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: in your menu, audio effects... does it seem over full?
<StevenJayCohen> OvenWerks: kinda
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: You added the Backports PPA? Yeah, I need to move the effects from lsp-plugins to its own submenu. The upstream developer made a submenu, and it just needs to be placed. I guess I should JFDI.
 * Eickmeyer worked with the lsp-plugins developer on that
<Eickmeyer> That'll be on my to-do for tomorrow. It should only affect people with backports.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I have some work to do to make our menu work properly with plasma anyway
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Can I get the changes I have in mind into Backports first? Pwetty pweeze?
<OvenWerks> I am guessing they have named their .directory files different.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: no worries, I have other things to do
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<OvenWerks>  BTW I have found out that one icon set references another by the folder name not the Icon theme name :)
<Eickmeyer> Ahhhhh
<Eickmeyer> Actually, I think I knew that.
<OvenWerks> prolly
 * OvenWerks is seeing a line passenger jets as far as the eye can see
<Eickmeyer> Incoming flights to YVR, I assume.
<OvenWerks> no, video footage from the US I would guess
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I thought you were looking at the sky.
<OvenWerks> skies are MT
<Eickmeyer> Oh, cool.
<Eickmeyer> We had a helicopter fly overhead earlier.
<OvenWerks> I think I have heard the odd SARS plane flying around.
<OvenWerks> There is probably still lots of cargo going.
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I'm sure.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: our menu is out of date anyway. I notice it still has ubuntu-software-center
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: That's technically still a legitimate package.
<Eickmeyer[m]> It's a fork of gnome-software-center
<Eickmeyer[m]> No matter anyhow as it doesnt show unless the package is installed.
<OvenWerks> Ya, doesn't show.
 * OvenWerks is putting his build system back together
<OvenWerks> Huh, I was missing a package... no .directory files.
<StevenJayCohen> <Eickmeyer[m] "It's a fork of gnome-software-ce"> When I search software-center in apt, the only one that comes up is kylin. And, I have all of the repos turned on.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> one nice thing about kde it does come with discover
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> kde plasma*
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I'll learn it... one day
<Eickmeyer> !info gnome-software focal | StevenJayCohen
<ubottu> StevenJayCohen: gnome-software (source: gnome-software): Software Center for GNOME. In component main, is optional. Version 3.36.0-0ubuntu3 (focal), package size 874 kB, installed size 6646 kB
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: I had the package name wrong.
<Eickmeyer> Groovy Gorilla. https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/groovy-gorilla-release-schedule/15531
<Eickmeyer> (It's official)
<Eickmeyer> !20.10
<ubottu> Ubuntu 20.10 (Groovy Gorilla) will be the 33rd release of Ubuntu, scheduled for release October 2020 ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GroovyGorilla/ReleaseSchedule ). Join #ubuntu+1 for support and questions.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @luka@sonomu.club ð https://sonomu.club/users/luka/statuses/104053479122929183  â¦ - â¦ I'm so grateful #Kdenlive exists. I can do a lot with it, enjoying editing. â¦ But I totally hate its titler.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> dropping this here in preparation of the software review.
<StevenJayCohen> Groovy Gorilla? Isn't that a bit close to Gutsy Gibbon?
<StevenJayCohen> Or is that intentional? Are Fossas and Foxes both canids?
<OvenWerks> interesting, in plasma, "edit applications" (kmenuedit) shows all of the icons for the menu items but any of the menu options seem not to show all the icons. 
<OvenWerks> I had thought when I first installed plasma they showed but after changing icon themes a number of them vanished
<OvenWerks> and now they are working again :P
<OvenWerks> never mind (or is that lost mind?)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I had some simliar issues with that.
<Eickmeyer> But, figured it out.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: My fixes for -menu are uploaded to backports, feel free to mess with the menu.
<Eickmeyer> (everything is pushed)
<Eickmeyer> And NOW, I must depart to fix my parents' computer because my dad doesn't know how to NOT install Chrome extensions from outside of the official repo. *big facepalm*
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-04-25
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am satrting to question if plugins with a jack version should even show up in the menu. There are a lot of them... so many that most people will take one loo and not bother.
<OvenWerks> *one look
<OvenWerks> It is almost worth it's own menu, sub menus and  sub sub menus
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: If you install the version of -menu from the Backports PPA, it has the jack versions of lsp-plugins in a submenu of the Effects submenu.
<OvenWerks> I am not even sure providing lv2, vst, jack client and ALSA application make sense.
<OvenWerks> cool, I will do that
<Eickmeyer> In other words: I did a thing this morning.
<Eickmeyer> Regarding DjZU's issue, I think it was a one-off.
<OvenWerks> Anything that has an OSS variant should have the OSS variant .desktop file with NoDisplay=true
<OvenWerks> we should not support OSS
<Eickmeyer> Agreed. OSS needs to die in a fire.
<OvenWerks> OSS is the thing for free BSD
<OvenWerks> it is more "unix-y"
<Eickmeyer> Well, they can have fun with it. As for me an my house, we shall have ALSA.
<OvenWerks> it is not real time friendly
<OvenWerks> totally file handle based... blockable
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<OvenWerks> however, I think the switch to plasma should get done first when GG opens up in a few weeks
<OvenWerks> I have set mine up to look pretty much like what we have now.
<OvenWerks> deskbar at the top, etc.
<OvenWerks> the plasma default for menu is close to whisker but I switched to the win95 style menu whic for me is the most productive. (me being strange)
<OvenWerks> in the past we have set the title bar colour of the focused window to Studio blue
<Eickmeyer> Groovy Gorilla.
<OvenWerks> GG
<Eickmeyer> !20.10
<ubottu> Ubuntu 20.10 (Groovy Gorilla) will be the 33rd release of Ubuntu, scheduled for release October 2020 ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GroovyGorilla/ReleaseSchedule ). Join #ubuntu+1 for support and questions.
<Eickmeyer> I don't know if I'm going to go as far as customizing color schemes.
<OvenWerks> so long as it contrasts... while I have a CDE look alike, I am not suggesting we do that
<OvenWerks> breeze works quite well with gnomed titlebars for now (untill they change to make it look "new"
<Eickmeyer> I think I'm going to keep Materia (I've already packaged the KDE version), but I'll change the inactive titlebar to a "light" color as the default. Basically, I'll make a new color scheme. Would that be a fair compromise?
<OvenWerks> I'll know when I see it :)
<OvenWerks> merely changing the text colour does not seem to be enough. a good Title bar BG difference helps a lot
<OvenWerks> some of us are over 45...
 * OvenWerks will be 60 this year
<OvenWerks> but the rality for me is, if I don't like it I will change it :)
<OvenWerks> so do what the artistic people like.... I'll try to be quiet and not throw too much popcorn
<Eickmeyer> Hehe
<Eickmeyer> In all fairness, I just turned 40.
<OvenWerks> 4 more years to go...
<eylul[m]> is suddenly actually feeling young in this conversation
<Eickmeyer> Heh
<OvenWerks> eylul[m]: you are probably about my daughter in law's age
<Eickmeyer> Then there's tsimonq2 who is young enough to be my son. But not as young as my actual son. Just 10 years difference though.
<eylul[m]> :))
<eylul[m]> I would say that 10 years of age in that context is still quite a bit :))
<Eickmeyer> That's true.
<OvenWerks> my son is a Dr. chemmist his wife is an engineer... they met at university
<eylul[m]> :))
<StevenJayCohen> Both my kids are at university, they are 21. He's studying CS and she's studying documentary film
<OvenWerks> just listening to https://soundcloud.com/davephillips69/the-spring-of-23
<OvenWerks> made on Ardour
<OvenWerks> Ardour 2 actually
<StevenJayCohen> Oh, I'm sharing that to book twitter
<StevenJayCohen> If a machine took stock Ubuntu 20.04, added the Low Latency Kernel and the Music stuff via Ubuntu Studio Installer, and wants to upgrade to 2X.04 in a year or two, does the upgrade take care of the Low Latency Kernel and the Music stuff? Or will I need to upgrade those after the fact via Ubuntu Studio Installer. I'm guessing that the Kernel will be updated, and possibly the pieces that I had installed too,
<StevenJayCohen> but that I should re-install the Music stuff to pick up any new additions to the distro. Will Ubuntu Studio Control update automatically?
<OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: I do not know the answer to that question.
<OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: Eickmeyer says that there needs to be a ppa purge before upgrading can be done and I do not know what that does to the system
<Eickmeyer> All the ppa purge does is remove the PPA and downgrade the packages that are in the PPA to whatever is in the repo.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ok, so what happens to software installed out side of the release?
<OvenWerks> are they upgraded?
<OvenWerks> I think that is what is being asked
<Eickmeyer> Anything that is in the repos and is installed on the system is upgraded.
<OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: so the answer to your question is "yes"
<OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: the Studio packages will also be upgraded
<StevenJayCohen> Perfect
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I don't think a clean install will help DjZU. He is likely to make the same mistake on a new install
<Eickmeyer> At least it would be a good starting point to see where he went wrong.
<OvenWerks> I would like to see the line in /etc/passwd for this user
<OvenWerks> the last entry should be: /sbin/nologin or /bin/false
<OvenWerks> I am wondering if as a part of installing the sw he had to create this user and did so using the new user GUI
<OvenWerks> Also the user number should be less than 1000
<OvenWerks> A package install should take care of that...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-04-26
<Eickmeyer> !neon
<ubottu> KDE Neon ( http://neon.kde.org/ ) is a KDE project to package the latest stable and development versions of KDE software on top of an Ubuntu base. As it is not an official Ubuntu or Kubuntu project, please use #kde-neon for discussion and support.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: how is it different from kubuntu? what is it's goal that differentiats it from kubuntu?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: 1) It uses an additional repository outside of Ubuntu. 2) It stays on the LTS while using that external repository to keep KDE applications up-to-date. 3) It's not an official Ubuntu flavor.
<Eickmeyer> Only reason I brought it up in here is because someone was asking.
<Eickmeyer> Didn't know if there was a bot entry or not.
<OvenWerks> Ah, ok. I will ignore it's existence
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: (or eylul[m]) do you know if there is another pannel that can be used with kubuntu? I am looking for something that is not gtk* based
<Eickmeyer> Panel? The default Plasma panel is Qt-based. I don't understand.
<OvenWerks> I was using cairo-panel with xfce
<OvenWerks> I do not want to use the system panel when I ssh -y
<Eickmeyer> Oh. There's latte-dock, which is infinitely customizable in a similar way.
<Eickmeyer> But remember: Plasma, while not GTK based, does support GTK.
<OvenWerks> I don't have any problems with the stock kubuntu pannel, but for ssh -Y I want something that is not going to show up in my normal login.
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: any ideas? ^
<OvenWerks> latte may be what I am looking for.
<OvenWerks> or the pannel from lubuntu
<RikMills> those sound reasonable
<OvenWerks> Thank you
<lungas> are you thinking about creating your own studio theme in the next version with kde?
<Eickmeyer> lungas: I've already packaged the KDE version of Materia, and plan on using that.
<Eickmeyer> Just to keep consistent during this transition.
<Eickmeyer> lungas: Also, I saw your messages from yesterday. Welcome!
<Eickmeyer> What I like to see is participation in the chat rooms so that we can get to know you. Feel free to jump-in on conversations in #ubuntustudio-offtopic, help people in #ubuntustudio, and even feel free to participate in #ubuntustudio-devel.
<lungas> Eickmeyer: and the icon pack?  will we keep the XFCE version?
<Eickmeyer> lungas: The icon theme (papirus) is desktop environment-agnostic, much like ALL icon themes. :)
<Eickmeyer> But, yes, I plan on keeping the Papirus base.
<OvenWerks> Spectacle will only seem to capture a dropdown menu in "full screen" mode. Capture current pop-up only doesn't seem to do that
<OvenWerks> off to gimp...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That might be worthy of a bug report if that's the expected behavior.
<OvenWerks> it just seems funny that to get a screen shot of a tiny drop down one has to start with the largest image :)
<OvenWerks> that said, it is quite common for me to have to edit the image after.
 * OvenWerks is working on the Ardour manual
<OvenWerks> gimp has been cramed into one window, how do I switch to separate windows for toolboxes the way it used to be?
 * Eickmeyer is caught off-guard with that one
<Eickmeyer> Uhhh...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Windows > Single Window Mode
<OvenWerks> much better
<Eickmeyer> The gimp folks got a lot of flak for not having that "single-window mode". So much that they made it the default.
<OvenWerks> for a lap top or for those who can't work without full screen it makes sense
<OvenWerks> I would not suggest to change default so long as I can split things up to make full use of more than one monitor
<Eickmeyer> Well, it's a very, very easy change for one to make.
<Eickmeyer> I mean, moreso than the default wallpaper. :P
<OvenWerks> so long as that one is not looking through all the options in preferences ...
<Eickmeyer> Google also comes in handy.
<OvenWerks> having to use google means it is no intuitive
<OvenWerks> breakfast time
<Eickmeyer> o/
<guerdie> Question: is UbuntuStudio intended to be able to run as a client on Virtual Box?
<Eickmeyer> !support | guerdie
<ubottu> guerdie: This is the Ubuntu Studio development channel. Our official support channel is on #ubuntustudio. Also see http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335
<Eickmeyer> guerdie: It wouldn't make sense to run the audio applications in Virtual Box.
<Eickmeyer> guerdie: So, we don't make it with Virtual Box in mind. If it happens to run, cool.
 * Eickmeyer knows first-hand it happens to run
<Eickmeyer> dax: Can we have ubottu not display the forum link and have it read https://askubuntu.com instead? The forum is very, very dead.
<dax> ubottu: support-#ubuntustudio-devel =~ s%http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335%https://askubuntu.com%
<ubottu> Nothing changed there
 * dax frowns
<dax> !support
<ubottu> This is the Ubuntu Studio development channel. Our official support channel is on #ubuntustudio. Also see http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335
<dax> ubottu: no, support-#ubuntustudio-devel is <reply> This is the Ubuntu Studio development channel. Our official support channel is on #ubuntustudio. Also see https://askubuntu.com
<ubottu> I'll remember that dax
<dax> !support
<ubottu> This is the Ubuntu Studio development channel. Our official support channel is on #ubuntustudio. Also see https://askubuntu.com
<Eickmeyer> dax: Thanks!
