#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-05
<TheMuso> Pendulum: I won't have anything to report at this week's meeting, so if you have anything, please either pm/message/email me, as I may not be able to make the meeting.
<UndiFineD> hey TheMuso 
<UndiFineD> have you seen ##speechcontrol  ?
 * AlanBell wonders if Pendulum will change the topic . . .
<Pendulum> when I am more awake, yes
<Pendulum> but we went to a show in NYC last night and I got maybe 5 hours sleep
<UndiFineD> good morning Pendulum 
<Pendulum> hi UndiFineD 
<UndiFineD> was it a good show ?
<Pendulum> it was! It had one of my favourite musical theatre actresses in it and she was very much "on" last night :D
<UndiFineD> ah musicals, something I get to watch often from dvds in this house :P
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> today I also pick up new glasses so I am expected a couple days of less computer as my eyes adjust (even my optomotrist told me that the chance in prescription was enough that it may disorient me some)
<Pendulum> *change
<UndiFineD> I amI am lazy with glasses, I have them, but forget, both eyes a +1
<Pendulum> I'm -6.25 in both eyes. If I didn't wear them I would only be able to see things within about 4 inches
<Pendulum> luckily corrected we get them up pretty close to normal (used to be able to get them better than normal, but not anymore)
<UndiFineD> being involved in a lot of good projects is nice, it also means I get a lot of email, sorry if I kept you waiting
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-06
<jay_> Hello. I'm interested in somehow getting involved with the accessibility team. I'm not sure exactly how I could help out - perhaps with application testing - but I'd like to do what I can.
<jay_> Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction to get plugged in and involved?
<AlanBell> hi Arcitens 
<Arcitens> hi
<Arcitens> how are you doing?
<AlanBell> not too bad, you wanted to get involved in accessibility
<AlanBell> which is great
<AlanBell> in the topic there are links to the mailing list and the wiki area
<Arcitens> yes, I've looked at the wiki a little bit, including the testing page
<Arcitens> I'm interested in helping with application testing, but I'm not sure how or where to get started. I'm also interested in helping with wherever there needs help.
<AlanBell> one thing that is coming up is testing of the new unity interface in Natty
<charlie-tca> And we would like help with testing that, including trying to write up what works and filing bugs for what doesn't
<Arcitens> Ok. I might be interested in that. I'm also interested in testing applications, since that also goes beyond Ubuntu.
<Arcitens> But either way how would I get involved?
<Arcitens> Ok. I'm going to head out. I'll be back tomorrow. Looking forward to getting involved.
<charlie-tca> AlanBell: Do we need to make a list of things to test? or can we just create a wiki page and let testing happen?
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: I think we need a good sense from TheMuso about what he thinks are most likely things to test
<Pendulum> and then create a priority list so that we know at least the most important things get tested
<charlie-tca> Okay. Right now, we know most things are broken in Natty, but we could have tests run on applications using Maverick. At least that was my thought 
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-07
<Arcitens> Hello
<rohitnikcool> hello i am having some network problem can anyone help me out.
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: if I can get you a copy of the proposed new UW wiki theme can you look at it and let us know what needs to be fixed? ( us = AlanBell mostly)
<Pendulum> AlanBell: do you have a link somewhere to the new UW theme?
<Pendulum> hajour: I'm really sorry, but I think you messaged me like a week ago and I just completely forgot to respond
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: yes, I can take a look
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: okay, hopefully Alan will have a link soonish as the link pleia2 had doesn't seem to be working anymore
<charlie-tca> Okay, no problem
<cprofitt> Cool... you guys have a whole new wiki theme?
<cprofitt> I had someone pickup my bug about the wiki just recently...
<Pendulum> cprofitt: there's been an UW-specific theme in the works for the UW wiki (which is not the same as the Ubuntu wiki)
<Pendulum> UW = Ubuntu Women
<cprofitt> oh...
<cprofitt> I thought perhaps it was part of the ubuntu wiki
<cprofitt> does canonical maintain the server or do you guys have control of it?
<Pendulum> OTOH, it has to get approved by IS so maybe if we can make it accessible, we can get it approved for the main wiki too
<cprofitt> so Canonical hosts...
<cprofitt> cool...
<Pendulum> yes
<cprofitt> if they fix the theme for the main site to honor moin moin code I will be happy
<cprofitt> right now it doesn't honor center, left, right alignment in tables
<AlanBell> o/
<AlanBell> cprofitt: got a bug number?
<cprofitt> I do at home AlanBell 
<cprofitt> a developer picked up the bug for me...
<cprofitt> let me check LP... it should be listed there too
<AlanBell> I have been submitting fixes to the main wiki theme, I have a bunch of outstanding merge requests that have been approved and not merged
<Pendulum> AlanBell: do you have a link for where charlie-tca could test the UW wiki theme?
<AlanBell> I will fire it up on my laptop and post a link
<AlanBell> Pendulum: can you delete me from the wordpress blog and re-add me please
<Pendulum> AlanBell: yep, I'll see if I can
<AlanBell> great
<cprofitt> AlanBell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-isd-web/+bug/657472
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 657472 in canonical-isd-web "Alignment being ignored in the new wiki theme (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Pendulum> AlanBell: see if it works now
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: what was the name of the wordpress theme you thought was probably accessible?
<Pendulum> AlanBell: so that worked?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> I have to go eat and stuff now, will be back in an hour or two
<Pendulum> no worries. I'm looking at themes :)
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: can't remember now. I will have to go searching for it
 * charlie-tca is braindead today
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: can you look at the current theme and tell me what you think? (it's the default. I'm also going to play with some others)
<charlie-tca> yup; URL again?
<Pendulum> http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/
<charlie-tca> really brain dead today... can't remember hardly anything today
<Pendulum> no worries
<Pendulum> I know what brain fog is like :)
<charlie-tca> Um, the non-selected item is dark grey on black, making it hard to see
<Pendulum> *nods*
<charlie-tca> the light-gray on white is not bad, though, when looking at "About"
<Pendulum> ok
<charlie-tca> Text typed in the boxes is easy to read, too.
<charlie-tca> Unfortunately, if you can't see the menu well, the rest won't matter
<Pendulum> I'm going to try another theme (one with non-fixed width) and then maybe see about playing around with colours because I think I can change those (or get Alan to help me)
<charlie-tca> the top is busy, but that can be easily not seen
<Pendulum> try refreshing. what do you think of this one?
<Pendulum> I can easily chance colours on it
<Pendulum> *change
<Pendulum> (easier than on the first one)
<charlie-tca> that is much better
<Pendulum> okay, I like it better too :)
<charlie-tca> That's similar to the one I am looking for
<Pendulum> that one is called Garland
<charlie-tca> but, it will take me a while to find that name
<charlie-tca> I like Garland then
<Pendulum> I'm correct that flexible width is better than fixed for anyone who blows up the type size, right?
<charlie-tca> and the fact that it is not fixed width makes a difference for those trying to use it full screen
<Pendulum> yeah
<charlie-tca> Even when I grow the text big, I can see see the whole page
<Pendulum> *nods*
<Pendulum> is blue a good colour for you?
<charlie-tca> yes, 
<charlie-tca> blue is great
<charlie-tca> Might have hajour take a look at it, because she loses some color I see
<Pendulum> what if I make the general text to actual black, would that be better?
<charlie-tca> Always
<charlie-tca> Ideal colors are yellow on red or black on white or white on black
<Pendulum> *nods*
<charlie-tca> and yes, that is a true yellow on red, not faded or tinted yellow
<charlie-tca> You got it! that is much better, just don't know it until you see it
<Pendulum> try refreshing again, I just made the links darker too
<charlie-tca> hm, not sure I don't want the links lighter again. They tend to blend into the text now at times
<Pendulum> okay
<Pendulum> I can restore that
<Pendulum> I wasn't sure if they were too light originally
<Pendulum> just let me finish adding the about page and I'll return them :)
<charlie-tca> we don't like that color for links. Either got to be lighter or a different color to show up
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: is this better?
<charlie-tca> Yes, for these eyes it sure is.
<Pendulum> okay
<charlie-tca> w00t! bonus - can read the text and find the links - what a deal
<Pendulum> hajour: when you get a chance can you look at http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/ and let us know how the theme works for you in terms of accessibility? (you can ignore most of the content as that will change once we know the theme is good!)
<Pendulum> okay, the About page has been updated with a link to the wiki
<Pendulum> once we know the theme is definitely good, I'll add it to planet and make a first real post :)
<Pendulum> can y'all tell I'm feeling better than I have in a month? ;)
<Pendulum> do we have a team symbol?
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: glad to hear you are feeling somewhat better! It does show, you know
<Pendulum> err... or whatever the word is that I'm looking for and can't remember...
<Pendulum> (I'm just wondering if there's a graphic I can use for when I put stuff on planet)
<charlie-tca> I have one we used for the wiki (orange cirlce with wheelchair) that we can have blown up if we want to. We can also change the color if needed
<Pendulum> *nods*
<Pendulum> is there somewhere I can grab it from or can you e-mail it to me or something?
<charlie-tca> grab it here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/HeaderMain?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=accessibility.png
<charlie-tca> That's wrong
<charlie-tca> Try again - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/HeaderMain?action=AttachFile
<charlie-tca> You want to go to the accessibilityteam.png , get, save as...
<charlie-tca> well, right click get and click save as
<Pendulum> I want a nap. Sadly my father is watching train DVDs so no chance of that anytime soon :-/
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: I have the svg of that I think
<AlanBell> or maybe not
<AlanBell> bigger png though http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/accessibilityteam8.png
<AlanBell> I appear to have deleted my local moin setup :(
<AlanBell> the theme code is here https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-women/ubuntu-women.org/mointheme
<AlanBell> will have a go at putting it back together over the weekend
<charlie-tca> I will try to grab it and have a look
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-08
<hajour> hai all
<Pendulum> I love that snow creates access fail which means that I don't have to go anywhere :)
<webczat> Hey.
<webczat> How accessible wxgtk and wxwidgets for windows is?
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-09
<Pendulum> AlanBell: charlie-tca you two have both tried Natty, right?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> I have
<charlie-tca> I try a fresh installation about three times a week
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: how bad is it? I'm trying to decide if I should try upgrading my mini to just use it as a test machine
<charlie-tca> Not too bad, just can't find any keyboard shortcuts most days
<charlie-tca> It requires the mouse, still
<Pendulum> do they exist yet?
<charlie-tca> not yet
<Pendulum> TheMuso: do we have any ETA on the keyboard shortcuts at this point?
<Pendulum> I'm in the middle of the doc team meeting where they're trying to decide how to manage docs since they'll need things for gnome2 and Unity
<charlie-tca> That should be fun ;-)
<Pendulum> to make it more fun a lot of the docs team is not happy about doing unity docs because of the copyright issue (don't blame 'em on that)
<charlie-tca> I think they are still hoping for shortcut keys for alpha2
<Pendulum> they were supposed to be in alpha1 which is why I'm hoping Luke has more info
<charlie-tca> They got bumped on the blueprint for unity
<Pendulum> I know
<Pendulum> but they got bumped really last minute
<Pendulum> and I'd rather know now if they won't make alpha2!
<AlanBell> I have tried natty
<AlanBell> the installer was broken so I installed Maverick and upgraded
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-02
<Fudge> was quiet mate
<Fudge> just need to figure out the last problem now, when i hit supre there is no speech
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-04
<mysteriousdarren> how well does speech control work? 
<Fudge> mysteriousdarren  with what exactly
<mysteriousdarren> Fudge:  I wanted to use it for speech recognition for writing to text documents 
<Fudge> oh like with simon?
<mysteriousdarren> yes is that the best one? I have been googling and googling and comparing. 
<Fudge> so i believe but sorry i use text to speech, not speech  to text
<mysteriousdarren> so simon is just speech to text? 
<Fudge> yes
<Fudge> where orca is text to speech, screen reader 
<mysteriousdarren> Fudge: Thank you for the clarification 
<Fudge> you're welcome
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: can you let me know when you want to start doing a11y classes in -classroom and what time/day of the week is good for you?
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: also, can you possibly look at a11y bugs to see which might be bitesized?
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will try to do that this week
<Fudge> think guys that speechd-up should be fixed or upgraded for upcoming precise so it actually installs and works
<Fudge> im using the vinux package to use it
 * Fudge pings AlanBell  TheMuso 
<TheMuso> Fudge: Yes, it should be fixed, what needs doing to it?
<Fudge> i dont know exactly it returns errors on install and there are no init scripts installed, forcing  all to install doesnt work either
<TheMuso> Fudge: Ok I'll have a look when I get a moment.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-05
<Fudge> thanks TheMuso 
<Fudge> mm i cant get orca to speak
<Fudge> in precise
<Fudge> state of gdm needs attention, gdm is looking for /usr/lib/at-spi/at-spi-registryd where the correct file is /usr/lib/at-spi-core/at-spi2-registryd
<Fudge> gnome-session[10044]: WARNING: Application 'at-spi-registryd-wrapper.desktop' failed to register before timeout
<Fudge> would be great
<Fudge> why is nautilus so flakey, no one has confirmed or given any ideas
<TheMuso> Fudge: How is it flaky?
<Fudge> hi TheMuso , it closes on me all the time when deleting files, refreshing or copying/pasting files
<JanC> Fudge: what version of Ubuntu?
<Fudge> I am on oneiric 32bit
<Fudge> JanC  I am pretty sure i've seen it in precise but not as frequent
<JanC> Fudge: try disabling nautilus extensions...
<JanC> nautilus has been mostly stable for me after disabling ubuntuone and a couple of other nautilus extensions...
<Fudge> where do  disable them, see no flags for nautilus
<JanC> I don't know if you can disable them in the GUI; but you can uninstall them...  :-/
<Fudge> ah right
<Fudge> are you suggesting i remove most of these http://paste.ubuntu.com/794377/
<Fudge> as i do not see how those would effect nautilus if i am just performaing basic actions
<JanC> Fudge: that list doesn't show all Nautilus extensions, and most of them work very well
<JanC> you need to check packages that depend on libnautilus-extension1 and/or depend on python-nautilus
<JanC> I guess maybe the dropbox extension could be a problem too, but I don't know how it works
<JanC> basically, what i think is happening is that some code in some extensions has multithreading issues...
<JanC> especially code that handles all files shown in nautilus
<Fudge> it does happen a lot if I am copying stuff remotely to a network machine like using .gvfs
<Fudge> yeah i list view shall all files and dont just show folders
<JanC> I'm pretty sure it happens when extensions try to handle files that got changed/moved/deleted between the extension being called & it handling those files, or at least something like that
<Fudge> so maybe i should not show all files?
<JanC> Fudge: what I think (didn't investigate to be sure) is that it happens with plugins that work on all files *shown* (which is not the same as all files)
<Fudge> well in prefs i have unticked show hidden files and not had a crash yet
<Fudge> well actually, just died but after deleting about 10 files which normally would have hapenned way earlier :((
<JanC> this sort of timing related bugs is very difficult to reproduce...
<JanC> or at least difficult to reproduce reliably
<Fudge> JanC  and it does not help that i am a noob
<JanC> Fudge: I need to go sleep now, but you could try to remove all packages that depend on libnautilus-extension1 or python-nautilus one by one, and see which one removes most of your problems...
<Fudge> thanks mate
<JanC> oh, and remember that nautilus runs in the background, so closing its windows doesn't exit it (you need to kill nautilus and restart it, or logout+login)
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-06
<Fudge> yep
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-01-01
<Fudge> ?
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-01-03
<Fudge> good evening
#ubuntu-accessibility 2018-01-04
<konrad11901> Hi! Is anyone there?
#ubuntu-accessibility 2019-01-02
<Bryce1> Hello. Should I ask here or in General Support for some help with an accessibility issue?
<Bryce1> The Ubuntu website lists this IRC for discussion, not support so I wasn't sure; the accessibility subforums don't seem to get much traffic.
