#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-18
<herzi> we only have svn snapshots until then
* herzi is alreday on #hula :)
<herzi> dholbach: just adding /var/netmail and /var/mdb to hula-manager.install should be sufficient, shouldn't it?
<dholbach> don't think so - i'd create them to be sure
<dholbach> *shrug*
<herzi> okay, got it in postinst now
<dholbach> rock
<dholbach> apart from the manpage warnings, NICE WORK!
<dholbach> applause for herzi!
<ogra> yeah
<dholbach> so please give it some review love
<dholbach> and get it in hoary! WOOHOO!
<dholbach> i take care of terminatorx
<Burgundavia> is that the sound of hedgehogs using a hula?
<dholbach> and wmressel
<whiprush> nice job herzi!
<koke> Hi all!
<dholbach> hey koke
<koke> hi dholbach , the non-stop guy :)
<koke> you just 0wned hoary-changes :P
<dholbach> well... we want hoary to rock, right?
<koke> yeah!
<koke> I'm reading my acummulated mail now :/
<dholbach> koke: let someone else read your mail, fix some3 packages instead :-)
<koke> heeh
<koke> shit! mail grows faster than I read... :/
<dholbach> i take care of wmtv
<koke> I need a smart mail client with "the" feature... 'Mark all the useless mails as read and show me only what I want to read now...'
* koke just closed mutt... universe time :)
<azeem_> anybody up for syncing sbuild 0.35 from unstable->hoary? It removes the "Distribution must be one of stable, testing or unstable, kthxbye" check and should work better on Ubuntu...
<dholbach> azeem_: if you say it builds and works fine, would you please add it wo wiki/MOTUToSync?
<azeem_> I'm pretty sure I added it to that page two or three days ago, but it disappeared (or I got the wrong page)
<dholbach> azeem_: no... we experienced a HUGE wiki fuckup
<azeem_> ah
<azeem_> well, I'll readd it then
<tseng> why do we keep having wiki fuckups
<tseng> out of curiosity
<tseng> the first one was "omg this wiki sucks lets change it all"
<dholbach> i think we'll change the wiki soon again
<tseng> wtf.
<azeem_> done
<koke> hey, an unresolved pythonTransition one...
<dholbach> will take care of wmxres
* koke going for spambayes...
<dholbach> and bbdate
<koke> hey, gcompris is built on debian (6.5.2-2)
<koke> should I request a sync?
<dholbach> koke: herve tried it, it's still crap :-(
<dholbach> i take dvr
<schweeb> ugh
* schweeb waves hi to the channel
<schweeb> been to busy lately
<dholbach> hey schweeb
<dholbach> i took care of the kernel stuff already
<schweeb> oh good
<schweeb> was about to ask that
<schweeb> is it all fixed?
<schweeb> or do some packages need work
<dholbach> i'll have a look at the reverse depends when elmo says he has it done
<dholbach> powerpc-2.4 didnt build
<dholbach> will need to ask the kernel crew
<schweeb> ah
<dholbach> i'll take stax
<crimsun> I'm on ccmalloc
<dholbach> i take ire
<diamond> lo folks
<diamond> dholbach: you're a machine -)
<dholbach> diamond: i'm completely harmless
<dholbach> :-)
<diamond> dholbach: well, go you, either way -)
<dholbach> i take gem
<koke> w0w, downloading install/live for i386 at 600kBs each one
<koke> god bless the universities :)
<koke> s/god/$DEITY/ :)
<diamond> i'm working on oregano
<crimsun> thuban removed, built on all 4 arches.
<dholbach> good one
<crimsun> removing xlc, built on all 4
<dholbach> you'll get an editing conflict
<dholbach> like i already had 5 this evening
<dholbach> somebody should teach the wiki to merge
<crimsun> sok, I'm used to it
<crimsun> I've already triggered 3 conflicts
<crimsun> ;)
<dholbach> with a huge club
<diamond> ditto. lots of conflicts
<dholbach> can somebody look at those:
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/e/echoping/5.2.0-2/ - (on powerpc) should be tackled by a dpatch with "automake --force --add-missing"-run
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/l/luxman <- should be easy to fix as well - replacing "xargs -0" with "xargs -r0" somewhere in debian/ should fix it (i386 only)
<dholbach> i'm not on i386 or powerpc
<dholbach> ajmitch: you're aware of gnue-reports failing?
<dholbach> i take sear
<tritium> dholbach, what's up?
<dholbach> tritium: having a go at UniversePriorityList
<dholbach> and UniversePriorityList clearly looses MUHuhuHAUHAUHAAAAA :-)
<tritium> heh
<tritium> ogra, I just barely joined when I saw your comment about krecipes.  Does that mean you're uploading it?
<ogra> tritium, i will, i wont do the binch of reviews this moment, but kreciepes will be in hoary as promised
<tritium> ogra, yay! - thanks :)
<dholbach> ha... sear fixed
<tritium> ogra, let me fix up a lintian.override file, and it'll be ready
<ogra> okay
* diamond wonders if dholbach also fixes packages while sleeping
<dholbach> i try qtstalker
<dholbach> diamond: don't think so :-)
<diamond> dholbach: i'm not so sure -)
<diamond> if anyone has time, oo2c is up for review on diamond.nonado.net/packages/oo2c. very trivial fix.
<diamond> once it's up, libooc-xml will then build.
<dholbach> diamond: will have a look
<diamond> dholbach: cheers
<thully> Is universe in "deep freeze" yet (meaning no new packages or non-critical updates)?
<schweeb> no
<dholbach> diamond: will do a testbuild, while i take murphy for a walk
<diamond> dholbach: cool.
<thully> if anyone has any extra time (which is improbable at this point) there are a few things that would be nice to have in universe - one being a special kernel with a patch for an annoying problem I'm having (however, this patch requires using a framebuffer, which the stock kernels don't do for good reason)
<dholbach> thully: please discuss it on the list
<schweeb> thully: you're more likely to get action if you package it yourself
<thully> Is the Ubuntu kernel finalized for release?  If so, I could try applying the patches and running the Ubuntu kernel build system
<schweeb> it's pretty much final
<schweeb> and if it's an obscure patch, it's probably not worth the effort getting it included
<dholbach> diamond: uploaded
<diamond> dholbach: woo. thanks.
<diamond> dholbach: oregano is there now too, also a trivial fix. but i'll understand if you're busy -)
<dholbach> diamond: will look
<thully> In that case - it may be too obscure - it's just an issue w/suspend-to-RAM using 10x too much power on many recent ThinkPads
<diamond> note: the fix for oregano is not great, i've patched the Makefile.in, as when i changed the Makefile.am and tried to run automake, nothing would build at all
<dholbach> thully: please talk to the kernel team - nobody of the MOTUs will judge a kernel patch
<thully> Well - they know about it - this is impossible to apply to the main kernel, though, as it requires features that cause problems on other systems
<dholbach> (even it is for universe)
<thully> There is a possible userspace solution, but as of now it doesn't work.
<dholbach> please discuss it on the mailing list
<crimsun> thully: I'm fairly certain it's not possible for Hoary.
<thully> OK - I was a bit doubtful myself
<dholbach> a bit? we have 24h until release and like 2496792467924672946 packages to fix
<diamond> dholbach: you forgot one. i think it's 2496792467924672947
<thully> sorry
<dholbach> diamond: no... just fixed qtstalker :-)
<tritium> I hope we can do all that in polynomial time!
<crimsun> pssht
<diamond> dholbach: ah. good stuff. ,-)
<dholbach> diamond: oregano is testbuilding
<diamond> dholbach: cool
<dholbach> i look at golem
<diamond> i'm looking at xfs-xtt
<schweeb> ugh, that shoudl be morgued
<schweeb> xfs and X itself can do about everything xtt can do
<schweeb> </rant>
<dholbach> diamond: oregano uploaded
<diamond> dholbach: yay. thanks.
<ogra> schweeb, fontservers are very useful for network wide font installations :)
<schweeb> ogra: yes, but that's what we have regular xfs for :)
<ogra> true
<dholbach> ha... golem fixed
<schweeb> in fact, I used XFS-XTT at one time, but that was before I knew about x-ttcidfont-conf
<schweeb> or whatever the hell it's called
<schweeb> I remember Eterm crashing whenever I used it... other stuff as well *shrug*
<dholbach> what was the procedure on  /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lvga  on i386?
<dholbach> adding libsvga-dev [i386]  to Build-Depends?
<diamond> dholbach: sounds right
<ogra> dholbach, i think so...
<diamond> right, i've crossed off at least half of the 25% section of the list
<diamond> i just checked against the latest build logs and removed any that built on all 4 archs
<crimsun> oh my, mozart barfs all over amd64
<diamond> all the ones that are left definetely don't build on all 4 ,-)
<koke> hey, I have spambayes for upload
<koke> have to sleep now
<koke> please, someone upload spambayes for me, thanks
<koke> http://www.amedias.org/~koke/debian/hoary/
<koke> bye!
<dholbach> bye koke
<dholbach> ogra: it's your turn in uploading :-)
<koke> hehe
* ogra fires up a browser
<ogra> argh
<crimsun> gah
<ogra> can anyone get this ? http://www.amedias.org/~koke/debian/hoary/spambayes_1.0.1-1ubuntu1_source.changes
<crimsun> I have four different pbuilders running :(
<dholbach> crimsun: that's how i worked twice through apt-get.org ;-)
<crimsun> dholbach: ;)
<ogra> dholbach, can you get the above url ?
<diamond> ogra: no. 403.
<ogra> grr, same here
<crimsun> same here
<dholbach> *clickedy clack* try again
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> was only joking
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> same here
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i'll mail him
<dholbach> just grab .dsc and .diff.gz
<dholbach> no time to be kitty kitty :-)
<dholbach> out with murphy
<diamond> right. i'm going to bed now. nite folks
<diamond> dholbach: don't go burning up on us, ya hear?
<dholbach> "burning up somebody" means?
<tseng> dholbach: it means you're nuts :D
<dholbach> ah i see
* dholbach can live with that assessment
<tseng> joking
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> i take timeoutd
<dholbach> done
<tritium> ogra, krecipes is ready.  I have crimsun's approval on it, as well as gourmet.  I'm waiiting on gourmet, to see if I can get python-pyrtf approved, in which case I'll make it a Build-Depends for gourmet.
<dholbach> i take tleenx2
<crimsun> tritium: ok, I'll look at python-pyrtf, sec
<tritium> crimsun, thanks :-)
<dholbach> done
<crimsun> ok, mozart's eating too much time
<crimsun> tackling oroborus
<crimsun> apt-get source oroborus
<crimsun> argh
<dholbach> i'd never buy an ia64 or powerpc from what i see in the buildlogs - they mess it all up ;-)
<crimsun> hehe
* schweeb pets dholbach 
<tritium> dholbach, don't you have an amd64?
<schweeb> good boy
<tritium> ah, you said ia64, never mind me
<dholbach> :-)
<schweeb> amd64 is the way of the future :)
<schweeb> ia64 is meh
<dholbach> yeah!
<dholbach> ok pals, i'm off to bed - see you for the countdown
<schweeb> heh
<tritium> goodnight, dholbach!
<schweeb> what is it, like 5am there?
<dholbach> 4
<crimsun> cya dholbach
<schweeb> night
<dholbach> *wave*
<crimsun> oroborus fixed
<Burgundavia> how do I add a source archive to the consideration?
<Burgundavia> anybody here? :(
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> somebody please review krecipes, gourmet and hula from wiki/MOTUNewPackages and make a small signature - i want those packages to get in
<Lathiat> whats this "apt-get.org stuff"i keep hearing references too
<Lathiat> like specifically
<dholbach> Lathiat: wiki.ubuntu.com/AptGetOrg
<dholbach> we import packages from there to make it easier for people to get those
<Lathiat> ah ok thanks
<dholbach> np
<Lathiat> i assume stuff is like you know, security audited, etc :)
<jani> hey dholbach
<jani> I reviewed krecipes and it's ok
<jani> it had some lintian warnings though
<jani> and kept hanging when I tried using it :(
<Lathiat> ahh i see the page now :)
<GheRivero> good morning
<dholbach> hey GheRivero
<dholbach> jani: strange, i used it alright
<jani> ok then I trust you :)
<jani> I might need to rebuild it
<dholbach> even saved data on my postgresql-server :-)
<jani> dholbach when does universe close?
<dholbach> shortly before announce
<dholbach> should be in +-20h
<jani> tomorrow right?
<jani> can you please do an upload for me I am at work and got no private key here
<Treenaks> ~20h is tomorrow, 6:00 CEST
<jani> http://sourcecontrol.net/~jmonoses/hoary/xfce-mcs-plugins/
<dholbach> will do
<jani> the fix for the XFCE display settings mentioned on users list
<dholbach> didnt read it, was busy :-)
<jani> thanks a lot :)
<dholbach> but if you say it's ok
<jani> yes it did not have xrandr and some other libs in the build-depends so it did not include them
<jani> the resolution setting dialog did not show any resolution this way
<jani> if the configure script detected those libs they were included if not not
<jani> so it happens that os-works people had them installed we didn't and hence the difference
<jani> now enforcing those in build depends shoudl fix the issue
<dholbach> jani: done
<jani> thanks again :)
<dholbach> i'm doing a dvd test install
<dholbach> could somebody please briefly review krecipes, gourmet and hula?
<dholbach> this is the last hours
<dholbach> bbl
<jani> dholbach, I'll try tonight I hope it's not too late
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> hopefully somebody else will volunteer before, but thank you very much
<dholbach> i really want to have those in
<Lathiat> does it require someone with privaledges to review them or just anyone?
<dholbach> it requires knowledge about packaging and judging how it's done, testing and so on
<dholbach> we prefer "signatures" from MOTUs and maintainers, but if you say "package works fine here" it's nice as well
<dholbach> but i'm off - dvd test
<dholbach> *wave*
<Lathiat> ok, i might give them a shot just as a reinforcement then
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> *wave*
<herzi> building hula-0.1.0-svn162 including manpages
<Treenaks> manpages? that
<Treenaks> must be a new feature
* Treenaks kicks his keyboard
<dholbach> WOW!
<dholbach> herzi: you rock!
<Mithrandir> herzi: scary.
<dholbach> herzi: we have like 18h left
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: scary?
<Mithrandir> yeah
<Mithrandir> hula is _scary_
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: oh .. yeah but that's version-independant
<herzi> dholbach: i guess my machine won't take SO long to compile and check with linda then
<dholbach> herzi: we need people to review and elmo to push it in :-)
<dholbach> and elmo also needs to get apt-get.org in
<herzi> Treenaks: alreday took a look at it IIRC
<dholbach> ah... he's awake
<Treenaks> herzi: yes, I did
<herzi> so, your manpages are there (most of them not beautiful, but they are in situ)
<Treenaks> that's enough :)
<dholbach> great
<tseng> yay
<tseng> ARE WE THERE YET?
<dholbach> somebody please review hula, krecipes and gourmet
<dholbach> i gave my okay
<tseng> ive been actually using the hula packages
<herzi> tseng: MY packages or alex' ones
<herzi> ?
<tseng> whatever Nat.org links to
<herzi> not mine
<tseng> oh.
<tseng> ill look at it after work maybe then
<herzi> though the postinst of my packages should convert your stuff correclty (hey, we have a test user for this *g*)
<tseng> hm
<ogra> dholbach, i'm at it...calm down...
<ogra> morning btw
<tseng> hi ogra :)
<dholbach> morning ogra
<dholbach> i really don't want to be bickering
<herzi> morning ogra
<ogra> hi herzi
<dholbach> bbiab
<herzi> new hula packages are available at: http://www.blaubeermuffin.de/packages/hula
<herzi> tseng: i'd love to hear a migration report from you
<herzi> GheRivero: still working on your live cd project?
<GheRivero> herzi, live cd?
<GheRivero> ah! Hi Sven, i didn't know this was your nick
<GheRivero> yes, we are still working, but we have just stop to think again
<GheRivero> about the way to follow
<tseng> herzi: oh i forgot to mention
<tseng> herzi: its running a warty system
<tseng> work time, cya later.
<herzi> tseng: okay
<koke> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/spambayes/1.0.1-1ubuntu1/spambayes_1.0.1-1ubuntu1_20050407-0240-i386-failed <-- this is quite strange :/
<koke> I pbuilded it correctly
<koke> debian/rules:90: warning: overriding commands for target `build-stamp'
<koke> $ wc -l spambayes-1.0.1/debian/rules
<koke> 75 spambayes-1.0.1/debian/rules
<koke> that's an old debian/rules
<koke> dholbach: the .diff.gz in the archive is not the same than mine ?!?
<koke> brb
<dholbach> koke:
<dholbach> MAN
<dholbach> WHY DO YOU ASK ME WHEN YOU LEAVE 10 SECONDS AFTER THAT
* dholbach shakes head in disblief
<Treenaks> lol
<dholbach> and i didnt upload it...
<d3vic3> doko, ping
<d3vic3> lo dholbach
<dholbach> hey d3vic3
<dholbach> :-)
<d3vic3> ajmitch, ping
<dholbach> can somebody on i386 check what rdepends on umlrun, umlrun-uml, rootstrap?
<dredg> niall@malkovich:~(0)$ apt-cache rdepends umlrun
<dredg> umlrun
<dredg> Reverse Depends:
<dredg> niall@malkovich:~(0)$ apt-cache rdepends umlrun-uml
<dredg> umlrun-uml
<dredg> Reverse Depends:
<dredg> niall@malkovich:~(0)$ apt-cache rdepends rootstrap
<dredg> rootstrap
<dredg> Reverse Depends:
<dredg>   user-mode-linux
<dredg>   umlrun
<dholbach> thanks dredg
<dholbach> koke!
<dholbach> !"
<dholbach> 1) why do you say something to me and leave 10 seconds after that? *GRMBL* 2) i didnt upload it 3) shall i upload it now?
<koke> dholbach: sorry, I had to go
<koke> I though you uploaded it
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> koke: please bump the revision
<dholbach> and i'll take care of it
<koke> what should I put in the changelog??
<dholbach> Rebuild.
<koke> ok
<koke> uploading...
<koke> ...[ OK ] 
<koke> :)
<dholbach> koke: testbuilding
<dholbach> jani: MOTUToSync
<jani> I'll look
<dholbach> koke: uploaded
<koke> dholbach: thanks :)
<jani> impressive :)
<jani> I'll take those ruby things down as libruby1.8 is in main
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> that's what elmo said
<jani> hmm did anyone actually synced those?
<jani> I recall elmo and mdz saying last week that bc libruby1.8 is in main they're uncomfy with syncing at this point
<jani> yes rake was  a dependency of rails (it was my first package almost 2 months ago :)
<dholbach> yes... i guess we'll sync those in 2 weeks or something
<jani> but since debian had it I no longer pushed my version
<jani> yes no hurry
<dholbach> ok
<jani> what I am most interested in is enduser apps for people who shouldn't mess aroud with their sources.list
<dholbach> yes
<jani> but I guess nvu is late in the game as well
<jani> http://sourcecontrol.net/~jmonoses/hoary/nvu
<jani> it has some lintian warnings that require messing iwth the source I think
<jani> I put this in the wiki but guess it went off with the erasure at the beginning of the week
<dholbach> *grmbl* wiki *grmbl*
<dholbach> could somebody investigate if mysqlcc works with libmysqlclient10-dev?
<dholbach> seems to not build with libmysqlclient-dev
<zul> T-Bone: yay! :)
<T-Bone> hi, just passing by to let you guys know about a couple of build failures that might be of interest of you. Note: these happen on hppa (unsupported arch) and i haven't checked they affect supported archs as well, i leave that up to you. dholbach told me to let you guys know about them anyway, here i do. Don't bother too much if you have better things to fix ;)
<Lathiat> dholbach: there not being a libmysqlclient-dev package isn't helping
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/mkhppa3/netpipe_3.6.2-1_20050407-0902 <- seems this one wants to build-dep on libmpich1.0-dev
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/mkhppa3/mysqlcc_0.9.4-4_20050407-0853 <- this one seems to want libmysqlclient12-dev
<Lathiat> heh i was just looking at mysqlcc
<T-Bone> (needless to say, i haven't *verified* that my guess are right)
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/mkhppa3/lkcdutils_6.0.0-2_20050407-0834 <- that one is rather funny. Dunno how it works elsewhere: hardcode 'i386' strings everywhere, and even the maintainer's home directory (see the final failure). Maybe too much work for you atm though ;)
<dholbach> T-Bone: we were just trying to decide if we could chuck out lkcdutils
<dholbach> but anyway, i need a break
<dholbach> see you in a bit
<T-Bone> fwiw, i'm currently looking at http://buildd.slashdirt.org/FAILED.html which lists all hppa failures. The KDE ones are known (yet i don't fully understand them) so ignore all kde cruft. Others are more strange. That's just for you to know though. I won't be bothering you with hppa until hoary releases ;)
<Lathiat> T-Bone: you need the gzip module on on that server :)
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/mkhppa3/pymol_0.97-1ubuntu1_20050406-2244 <- this ones looks for python2.3 whilst 2.4 is requested...
<Lathiat> for beasts such as mozilla :)
<T-Bone> Lathiat : good point, i can arrange that i guess
<jani> idholback, when you're back if you have time http://sourcecontrol.net/~jmonoses/hoary/rake/
<jani> if not I'll upload tonight from home
* T-Bone tries to remember proper mod-gzip setup
<jani> dholbach ^^
<jani> thanks :)
* jani is determined getting rake in hoary
<Lathiat> dholbach: mysqlcc seems to build and run ok with a dep on libmysqlclient12, did you want the source changes?
<T-Bone> Lathiat : mod-gzip enabled, lemme know if that's any better
<T-Bone> ;)
<Lathiat> T-Bone: haha thanks :)
<Mithrandir> jani: I'd use dh_fixperms rather than chmodding explicitly.
<Lathiat> try opening the mozilla-thunderbird logs :)
<Lathiat> i seriously need a nice server
<T-Bone> Lathiat : ignore mozilla, these are compiler issues to hppa ;)
<Lathiat> with some stupidly fast cpu and raid array
<Lathiat> laptop 5400rpm drive adn 2ghz pentium-m just doesn't cut the mustard :(
<Mithrandir> jani: also, you build-dep on ruby >> 1.8, but you install into ruby1.8 unconditionally, I would think you would want a ruby (>> 1.8), ruby (<< 1.9), I'd think.
<jani> Mithrandir, that's a sync from debian
<jani> I had my lintian clean rake package but since there's one in sid I'll take it instead
<Mithrandir> jani: I'm pointing out problems or potential problems, I'm not blaming you.
<jani> that was my first deb package btw
<jani> Mithrandir I know :)
<jani> my first (and only) manpage written too..
* jani recalls mid-february when he got interested in MOTU 
<Mithrandir> you might want to fill in the return value, errors and examples parts of the man page.
<Mithrandir> +.BR  -N--nosearch <-- missing, between N and -
<Mithrandir> (personally, I'd have written -N, --nosearch and not -N,--nosearch)
<Lathiat> when was the last sid sync? i notice bzflag hasn't bought in, would that need some motu love for breezy?
<jani> Mithrandir, so I should patch up the debian maintainers package? I was in a hurry to get this in befor too late esp since another ruby app BD-s on it
<Mithrandir> jani: those are all small changes, so I'd say so, yes.
<jani> Mithrandir, the manpage I wrote actually is diffrenet from the one installed, long story
<Mithrandir> jani: I'm just reading the diff. :)
<jani> I wrote a manpage Kamion suggested corrections I did those, sent to rake author, he included it, debian maintainer installs his own manpage, prolly wasn't aware of the upstream chage
<Mithrandir> jani: since it doesn't actually build anything, I'd remove the support for DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS too; it's just cruft.
<Mithrandir> (that's a minor thing and not something I'd hold it back for, though)
<jani> Mithrandir, cannot this wait till breezy?
* jani tries to get away
<Mithrandir> jani: please at least fix the depends and build-deps and the , issue.
<jani> or until at least the package that bd-s on rake builds
<jani> ok will do
<jani> btw there's no ruby 1.9 AFAIK why should I << 1.9 ?
<jani> ruby1.8 is the package name
<Mithrandir> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), libtest-unit-ruby, ruby (>>1.8), rdoc(>>1.8)
<jani> ruby is a metapackage with versions like 1.8 , 1.8.1 etc
<Mithrandir> yes, and the package won't work with a ruby 1.9
<Mithrandir> that ruby 1.9 isn't released is irrelevant.
<Mithrandir> (please also add a space between rdoc and (
<jani> untill ruby 1.9 is out we'll get this sorted out that is due late this year
<Mithrandir> those packages will be around for 18 months, remember that.
<Mithrandir> and the only way to solve that then is to add conflicts to ruby, which is the wrong way.
<jani> but in those 18 months will we add ruby1.9 to hoary??
<Mithrandir> no, but people might want to upgrade a part of their installation.
<Mithrandir> it'd taken you less to just fix it than arguing. :P
<jani> I fixed the space part at least :)
<jani> but the ruby dep part I am arguing about since it is the same in other packages
<Mithrandir> many wrongs doesn't make any rights. :)
<jani> I think they are many right in this case :)
* jani ducks
<jani> I am following the other ruby packs policy and what seems to be described in ruby-debian-policy
<Mithrandir> the set of deps you specify won't force you to upgrade to a newer rake if you upgrade to ruby (1.9), do you agree?
<jani> the upstream packagers do this for debian for years, I didn't think I'd go and override what they write
<jani> right, it wont
* d3vic3 sees zope-LDAP working 
<d3vic3> yeepeee!
<d3vic3> :P
<Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/mysqlcc/ <-- build-dep fixes
<Mithrandir> jani: so you can break your installation without breaking the dependencies, right?
<Mithrandir> jani: and that is bad.
<jani> I know mithrandir
<jani> but shouldn't the debian packagers handle that?
<Mithrandir> they should, but the policy might be buggy.
<jani> I mean they must have a reason for doing this
<Mithrandir> they might not have been bitten yet. ;)
<jani> btw rake churns out releases pretty often while ruby once a year
<jani> ok  if you insist I'll change it but this is one smal star in ubuntu universe and there are alot of similar ones
<Mithrandir> we shall get the rest fixed for breezy, then?
<jani> we cannot lintian fix and cosmetize all we're a dozen motu's and there's hundreds of DDs
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/mkhppa3/blacs-mpi_1.1-23_20050407-1241 <- another libmpich dev issue maybe
<jani> ok so the comma and the << 1.9 and it's ok with you?
<Mithrandir> jani: I think so, yes.  Prepare a package and I'll look through it again
<jani> thanks, pinging you shorty when it's up, I'll just leave it ubuntu1 since it's not uploaded yet
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/mkhppa3/tightvnc_1.2.9-5_20050407-1211 <- that one looks like a problem in the rules...
<Mithrandir> jani: sure
<jani> Mithrandir, it's up same location
<jani> just the two changes
<Mithrandir> jani: Build-deps too, not just depends.
<Mithrandir> and a space between >> and the version
<jani> ok
<jani> also for rdoc << 1.9
<jani> ?
<Mithrandir> yeah
<jani> better now?
<jani> Mithrandir ^^
<Mithrandir> yeah
<Mithrandir> looks good
<jani> thanks :)
<Mithrandir> jani: uhm, the .orig.tar.gz isn't in Ubuntu yet?
<jani> it should be
<Mithrandir> ok
<jani> it was synced today
<Mithrandir> else I fucked up a bit.
<Mithrandir> oh well, tell me if you get a reject.
<jani> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/r/rake/
<bddebian> Hey folks
<jani> reject meaning?fail to build?
<Mithrandir> jani: don't worry, you should get a mail about it.
<jani> it won't show up on haory-changes though my address is eaten by the spamkiller
<Mithrandir> hm, ok
<Mithrandir> oh well, look in the build logs and universe in an hour or so
<Mithrandir> if it's not there, it's certainly lost somewhere.
<jani> ok accepted
<jani> thanks
<jani> I mean I get the mail it just does not show up on the changes list
<Mithrandir> oh, ok.
<Lathiat> dholbach: ping when alive
<jani> mithrandir any idea why the ubuntu1 sources aren't yet in the pool? I got the accept mail right after you uploaded >30 min ago
<jani> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/r/rake/
<dholbach> Lathiat: i'd prefer it to build against libmysqlclient10, because of license iddues
<dholbach> Lathiat: what about bzflag?
<Lathiat> dholbach: it doesn't build against 10
<Lathiat> it wants mysql4
<Lathiat> i tried that first
<Lathiat> dholbach: as for bzflag, its in debian unstable
<Lathiat> problem is it wants libcurl3
<Lathiat> i think you can build it without it tho
<dholbach> our bzflag is 1.10.6.20040516ubuntu1
<Lathiat> yeh, current is 2.0.2
<dholbach> do we want it hard?
<dholbach> bugfixes?
<dholbach> crashes?
<Lathiat> nah just new version
<Lathiat> i was more asking
<Lathiat> for post-hoary
<Lathiat> it just means you can't play with people running 2.0.2
<dholbach> ok then we'll have it in 2-3 weeks or something
<Lathiat> i just wanted to know if itd be synced or if i'd need to give it some love
* dholbach doesnt know the exact schedule
<Lathiat> i suppose its not the best time to be asking such things :)
<Lathiat> dholbach: so what about mysqlcc
<dholbach> will be synced
<herzi> dholbach: so who pushes my hula packages into hoary after they're checked?
<dholbach> Lathiat: hrm... i just learned about mysqlclient{10,12}-dev-issues yesterday
<dholbach> herzi: anybody, i can take of it
<dholbach> ... care ...
<Mithrandir> jani: has it built?
<jani> I don't know but sources show up before building don't they?
<jani> diff.gz and dsc in pool, then build and then debs in pool from what I saw so far
<Mithrandir> yeah, that's right.
<jani> maybe because it's a NEW package in that it hasn't built yet on ubuntu it need manual intervention?
<Mithrandir> lamont: any idea where the rake upload has gone?
<lamont> Mithrandir: source or binary?
<Mithrandir> source
<Mithrandir> jani got an ACCEPTED message, but nothing more
<lamont>   Version             : 0.5.0-1ubuntu1
<jani> it's in pool now
<lamont> that's what's currently in wanna-build
<Mithrandir> ok
<lamont> and dep-waited on something
<Mithrandir> thanks, then.
<lamont> libtest-unit-ruby (>> 1.8)
<lamont> )
<jani> oh that's not good :(
<jani> I made the change to specifically not need >> 1.8 since we don't have that
<jani> and cannot sync since it;s in main
<lamont> jani: and then you didn't tell me to kick it
<jani> out libtest-ruby is 0.1.8
<jani> lamont so now if you kick it it should build?
<lamont> which I have just done
<lamont> yes
<jani> thanks
<jani> when it buildt please kick rails since it bdepends on rake
<lamont> if the package is marked Dep-Wait in buildLogs/Lists/hoary.all.$arch, and you upload something to remove the dep-wait, it will not build until I kick it
<lamont> if it's a dep-wait that will actually be met, then it's automatic
<jani> lamont is a more userfriendly and transparent web-interface planned to follos the state of packages through the system?
<Mithrandir> jani: yes, launchpad.
<lamont> jani: yes: launchpad
<lamont> heh
<jani> cool!
<ogra> launchpad
<jani> ogra gets the bronze medal ;)
<lamont> and it will be ready in october of 2004, just in time for the start of hoary development.
<ogra> heh
<Mithrandir> launchpad should do everything, make lunch, fly to the moon, fix bugs, answer support requests and stop wars.
<jani> 2004?
<lamont> yeah
<ogra> lamont, hoary ?
<lamont> I hope it really gets here soon
<lamont> Mithrandir: lunchpad
<Mithrandir> lamont: oh, it's the lunchpad that does all that.  launchpad will just manage distributions and stuff.
<Mithrandir> I knew I had something mixed up
<Mithrandir> ;)
<lamont> launchpad is the infrastructure to make maintaining a derivative distro (like, say, ubuntu) trivial
<lamont> in the mean time, we get to merge in new upstream stuff semi-manually
<Mithrandir> so we'll be a derivative of ourselves.
<jani> I knew about LP just didn't know it plans including tracking the innards of the build system
<lamont> jani: yeah/
<lamont> you commit your changes, and say 'build me that thing, please"
<jani> ok
<jani> so now I see rake ubuntu1 is in pool
<jani> will try building soon or is in dep-wait?
<lamont> It should acutally be trying it already
<lamont> and uploaded
<lamont> so it'll show up in the archive shortly after :33, and anything that is dep-wait on that will automatically become needs-build
<jani> ok, thanks
<jani> great for i386 is successful :)
<lamont> and the other 3 failures will be '$arch not in arch list: all ' failures (or should be)
<jani> so if it's an arch:all then it only gets built for i386?
<lamont> i386 builds arch: all components
<lamont> sadly, before they're built, arch-all-only stuff shows up for all of the architectures
<lamont> so the rest try and die
<lamont> generally that happens really quickly, though, so we haven't cared enough to bother
<jani> ok now the deb is in pool, do you need to kick rails or it is kicked already and waiting?
<jani> oh I just saw it tried andfailed again
<jani> will try fixing it's depends up
<dholbach> re
<lamont> jani: if the package upload is to fix an incorrect dep-wait, then I have to get involved.  If it's dep-waited for good reasons, then those clear by themselves.  Likewise, dep-waits on virtual packages require manual intervention by me.
<jani> lamont, I won;t fix it it requires ruby versions we don't have so rails is breezy stuff :)
<jani> but noted
<dholbach> morning, mdz
<mdz> morning
<mdz> we ought to decide on a precise cutoff for universe quite soon
<Lathiat> wow gnome packaging is so easy with that CDBS stuff
<tritium> and python stuff too :)
<dholbach> mdz: i'm talking to elmo about morguifying the stuff on our lists and apt-get.org import
<dholbach> mdz: after that we will obey to your signal
<dholbach> mdz: and fix random packages until that point
<mdz> how many more hours do you think you can realistically put into it?
<dholbach> mdz: i will stay awake until release
<dholbach> is 8 utc still what you planned?
<dholbach> for release that is
<Lathiat> dholbach: that would be in ~16 hours correct?
<jbailey> Lathiat: I'm glad you like it. =)
<crimsun> yep
<dholbach> Lathiat: 13h30m if i count correct
<tritium> Hey there crimsun
<crimsun> hi tritium
* Lathiat just create a package for fusa without alot of effort
<dholbach> hey Treenaks
* Lathiat recalls 2-3 years ago debian packaging something
<jani> hey crimsun
<dholbach> Lathiat: i packaged it and i took it off the list again - need to sort out strange upstream issues
<tritium> jbailey, it's all I use (if I can't package it with cdbs, I don't package it)
<Lathiat> dholbach: heh
<Lathiat> dholbach: well i was more playing with packaging stuff
<Lathiat> altho its still on the list
<dholbach> Lathiat: nice to hear that :-)
<Lathiat> at least i saw it abotu 15 minutes ago
<dholbach> Lathiat: MOTUNewPackages?
<jbailey> tritium: If you can't package it with cdbs, please let me know.  I've started hacking on cdbs2 again, and I'm trying to reduce the number of cases that cdbs can't handle.
<Lathiat> umm i think the page i might have been looking at was universe candidate or somethign
* Lathiat looks
<Lathiat> yeh 'twas
<tritium> jbailey, sure thing!  I didn't mean to imply things haven't built with cdbs -- so far everything has nicely.
<jani> crimsun, there are two xfce buglets on my desktop
<dholbach> Lathiat: i'll make a note, have it lying here :-)
<crimsun> jani: xfprint included?
<jbailey> tritium: THere are a pile of things that don't build with cdbs.  That's not a problem.
<jani> one is xfprint not starting, second systray cannot be put on panel
<jani> you guessed it :)
<jbailey> tritium: If a build environment is just too weird, there's no way a generic tool will handle it - that's not a problem.
<jani> the display setting dialog is fixed
<crimsun> jani: thanks for fixing the libxrandr* stuff
<jbailey> tritium: It's the cases where the failure is a cdbs limitation that I'm really interested in.
<jani> glad to
<tritium> jbailey, okay
<jani> when I try adding a systray to the panel it says it cannot find the module
<jbailey> tritium: Although, I've been known to send patch to upstream to fix their build env to work with cdbs, but I enjoy doing that sort of thing ;)
<tritium> :)
<jani> I saw the xfprint prob mentioned on xfce-devel but without solution
<crimsun> jani: I'm not in front of a Linux machine atm; what's the precise error for the systray?
<tritium> crimsun, I see fabbione reviewed krecipes, and wants me to split out -dev package for those 2 libraries rather than use a lintian.override
<crimsun> tritium: hmm, that suggestion sounds familiar ;)
<jani> crimsun, I got to panel, add... and chose system tray
<tritium> crimsun, yes, it does ;)
<jani> it says could not create panel item "Systemtray"
<jani> will debug tonight
<jani> is the xfprint porblem known?
<crimsun> jani: those two are highest in my queue to investigate
<dholbach> can i all i ask you please to add stuff we NEED to do on wiki/UniverseLastMinuteFixes
<crimsun> dholbach: ok
<tritium> dholbach, if you see ogra, I need to ask him not to upload krecipes
<dholbach> all the bugzilla/malone/mailinglist bugs and stuff on the list, users will kill us for, if the packages dont work
<jani> dholbach, only critical stuff or would be nice stuff?
<crimsun> at this point, critical
<crimsun> (grave/RC)
<dholbach> everything that is reasonable to fix in the last 13h
<jani> none of the xfce bugs qualify IMHO
<dholbach> (or whatever amount of time mdz will give us)
<jani> but they'd be nice to fix
<Lathiat> dholbach: what did you do about the mysqlclient stuff?
<dholbach> Lathiat: nothing yet
<dholbach> jani, crimsun: i just want to make sure we don't forget to fix people's favourite mediaplayer/htmleditor/... :-)
<Lathiat> Anything I can do to lend a hand? I'm bored, bitter and need something to do :)
<jani> :)
<dholbach> i'll look after the universe kernel packages for now and join you after wards
<dholbach> Lathiat: if you could crawl across wiki/MOTUTodo (maybe the bugzilla bugs tagged as universe) - that would be VERY nice of you
<dholbach> and holler if you hit something interesting
<Lathiat> ok
<dholbach> wow, cool!
<dholbach> :-)
<crimsun> jani: please generate strace output for me and send it to crimsunkg@yahoo.com
<jani> crimsun for the systray stuff I didn't know what to strace actually since the systray.so is loaded by an already running panel
<Lathiat> dholbach: MorgueProposal = to be canned?
<jani> so no executable is started
<dholbach> Lathiat: canned?
<dholbach> Lathiat: trash can? :-)
<Lathiat> thrown out, gotten rid of
<dholbach> Lathiat: yes
<Lathiat> yes canned as in the trash can :)
<dholbach> Lathiat: i'm working on that one
<Lathiat> ok
<Lathiat> was just wondering as im looking through
<jani> whereas for the xfprint stuff it's g_module_load or whatever it is called from glib returns error on loading xfprint_cups.so
<crimsun> hmm, I need to pull panel source then, too
<jani> again not enough detailt without digging into glib sources
<jani> but I haven't looked at the systray problem yet but will tonight
<crimsun> g_module_load()? That sounds enticingly familiar to the xfdesktop problem.
<jani> what do you know about the print stuff?iis it an upstrean problem?
<crimsun> s/familiar/similar/
<jani> like the 'quit' one?
<crimsun> I'm checking xfprint upstream now
<crimsun> (yeah)
<jani> the module is actually there in the path module_load gets
<jani> but I'll have to get glib osurces
* jani does it now
<crimsun> what error is it? unresolved symbol?
<jani> no g_module_load returns NULL
<jani> not too verbose
<crimsun> anything additional in ~/.xsession-errors?
<jani> it's xfprint that complaining I couldn;t find an easy way to tell glib to spew out debug info
<jani> I'll take a look
<crimsun> thanks
<jani> nothing
<crimsun> ok, the xfprint bug is known upstream
<jani> starting either xfprint4 or xfprint-manger just prints
<jani> aha
<jani> cool
<jani> I was talking about xfprint and you about systray I think :)
<crimsun> actually both :)
<jani> but no the systay bug doesn't print anything either
<jani> do we get a fix from their CVS?or there isn;t any
<crimsun> it doesn't appear to have been fixed
<motaboy> Hi all!
<jani> crimsun, challanging :)
<crimsun> it's still in status "NEW" on their bugzilla
<dholbach> hey motaboy
<tritium> Thanks for joining the conversation, dholbach.  If it comes down to it, I have no problem if krecipes can't be put in Hoary.
<jani> gonefor 10 minutes
<Lathiat> joijiojioj
<tritium> The package I most hoped to see in Hoary is python-matplotlib
<Lathiat> ss
<Lathiat> sorry ignore that, bad ssh
<dholbach> tritium: make people review it :-)
<tritium> dholbach, I have.  crimsun was very helpful in that regard
<dholbach> still issues open?
<tritium> I just have one final issue to clean up with it.
<dholbach> alright
<tritium> but it's a challenge.  I'll see what I can do in the next few hours
<crimsun> tritium: check with jbailey regarding moving that rc
<Lathiat> is anyone taking care of the gtk-mist-engine clash?
<tritium> crimsun, will do, thank you for all your hard work reviewing my packages.
<crimsun> np
<tritium> crimsun, although, it doesn't appear to be that simple, since it's hard-coded in the source
<crimsun> ick
<crimsun> back in 10mins
<jbailey> crimsun, tritium: What's up?
<tritium> jbailey, oh, my python-matplotlib upstream like a system-wide rc-file in /usr/share/matplotlib/.matplotlibrc
<tritium> so I'm looking into moving it to /etc/matplotlib/matplotlibrc, or something like that
<jbailey> Wow, system wide dotfile?
<jbailey> Sounds like a good excuse to go beat upstream with a trout.
<tritium> yeah, so he can just append (.matplotlibrc) to either $HOME, or matplotlib's Data path
<Lathiat> eww  i just tried to start tomboy and it complained that /tmp/orbit-lathiat2 was not owned by the current user, which is true because it should be looking at /tmp/orbit-lathiat .. :\ wonder if thats a tomboy or somethign else bug :/
<dholbach> hey fabbione
<dholbach> :-)
<fabbione> yo
<tritium> Hi fabbione
<dholbach> may i introduce you to our new MOTU celebrity :-)
<fabbione> dholbach: ehhe sure..
<dholbach> fabbione: ok... go ahead :-)
<tritium> fabbione, first, let me thank you for your review of my packages
<fabbione> tritium: no problem.. i am royal pain in the ass when i review packages..
<fabbione> you are not lucky :P
<tritium> That's good!
<fabbione> ok let's picture a scenario first
<fabbione> i will try to make a simple example
<fabbione> if you don't understand, stop me any time
<tritium> Okay.
<fabbione> first you need to be familiar with the concept of shared libraries...
<fabbione> is any of you familiar with it?
<tritium> Yes.
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> in your package you have a shared library and headers file for development
<fabbione> that means that there might be other applications using it
<fabbione> now.. if you manage all in one package you have a big problem
<fabbione> why..
<fabbione> you cannot handle api/abi changes properly
<fabbione> let say your package is called foo
<fabbione> or better.. your source is called foo
<fabbione> and it creates a lib called libfoo1
<fabbione> it ships header files
<fabbione> and an application
<fabbione> ok?
<fabbione> now somebody creates another piece of software called bar
<fabbione> that uses libfoo1
<fabbione> links against it
<fabbione> during foo development there is an API/ABI change
<tritium> which breaks bar
<fabbione> this means that libfoo2 is not compatible with libfoo1
<fabbione> exaclty
<fabbione> what happens at package level
<fabbione> because that's the whole point of the split
<fabbione> if you have all in one package, your foo2 will be ok
<fabbione> immediatly
<fabbione> but it will break bar
<fabbione> this is not nice
<fabbione> since bar can be used by tons of more users
<tritium> That makes good sense.
<fabbione> so in order to perform a smooth transition, you split the packages
<fabbione> now there is a specific name convention for libraries
<fabbione> and it's not a case
<fabbione> let say that the new libfoo has soname 2
<fabbione> the new package would be called libfoo2
<fabbione> and you will notice that the files in libfoo2 will not replace in anyway the files in libfoo1
<fabbione> at system level bar will still depends on libfoo1 (now marked as obsolted)
<fabbione> but bar will not break
<fabbione> since the lib is still there
<tritium> yes
<fabbione> the libfoo-dev package instead will be updated
<fabbione> to use always the latest version of the headers (as foo2 in our example)
<fabbione> (note that in the -dev there is more than just headers)
<fabbione> at that point an apt-cache rdepend libfoo1 will show you all the packages that depends on libfoo1
<fabbione> result: bar
<fabbione> you send a nice mail to the bar maintainer and you will tell him
<fabbione> hey dude.. libfoo1 is obsolete.. time to upgrade bar
<fabbione> all this process will ensure a perfectly smooth and invisible transition for the user
<fabbione> that would otherwise break horribly
<fabbione> i was searching now the documentaion that explains naming conventions and what file should be where
<tritium> great
<Lathiat> i think i might ahve tha tlink
<fabbione> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<fabbione> it is also in .txt format
<tritium> Thanks, fabbione
<fabbione> just remove the file to browse the dir
<Lathiat> http://navi.cx/~mike/writing-shared-libraries.html <-- that one?
<Lathiat> oh, n~ot that one :)
<fabbione> Lathiat: it's more about packaging than writing
<Lathiat> fabbione: rightio
<dholbach> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html is good for that as well
<fabbione> dholbach: there is where i got the above link :)
<dholbach> :-)
<herve> hi
<dholbach> i just thought it was overkill, since some upstream folks tend to split off libraries (which nobody uses)
<tritium> fabbione, I appreciate it.
<dholbach> but fabbione, i see the arguments
<dholbach> hi herve
<fabbione> tritium: no problem
<herve> what's the thread?
<fabbione> dholbach: it's not just question of a small or large lib/pkg
<dholbach> herve: krecipes and splitting libraries out in separate packages
<fabbione> it's just the best (if not the only) thing to do
<fabbione> there is no overkill anywhere
<fabbione> don't get trapped in this overkill concept
<dholbach> :-)))
<fabbione> i can show you a lib package made of 3 files, used by everybody :)
<tritium> wise words from fabbione :)
<fabbione> that has a -dev
<fabbione> and so on...
<fabbione> also.. your source is still the same
<fabbione> you just create multiple debs from the same source
<dholbach> yes
<fabbione> the overall overhead is to write an extra bunch of lines in debian/control and debian/rules
<herve> I'll check the logs later, I'm interested by the arguments
<herve> s/by/in
<dholbach> i will bear it in my mind, especially the "overkill concept" bits :-)
<tritium> i will too
<fabbione> look at X for example
<dholbach> i really mean it, thanks for depicting the whole landscape, fabbione
<fabbione> there are a bunch of libs like libxsetkbk0
<fabbione> that is used PROBABLY by one package
<fabbione> but it's there anyway
<dholbach> *nod*
<fabbione> you don't know if others are developing on top of that libs
<fabbione> so keep the option open
<dholbach> yeah
<herve> yes :-)
<tritium> This was good.  Perhaps a bit embarassing, but very good.  :)
<fabbione> tritium: there is nothing embarassing in this. really
<Lathiat> tritium: bleh lose the shame, learn and make even better stuff :)
<herve> and you avoid people whinning because they have to install a 10 meg package for just a library file!
<fabbione> i had to hit this argument with myslef a long time ago
<tritium> :)
<dholbach> ok... dvd burned, will install - see you later guys
<tritium> see you, dholbach
<dholbach> and do some hula testing :-)
<dholbach> hula hula hula! :-)
<herve> hu?
<herve> he put on an hawaiian shirt?
<herve> :-)
<tritium> fabbione, while I've got you here, can I ask you what your recommendation regarding gourmet would be?  How to deal with debian/ dir in upstream?
<fabbione> tritium: sure.. well i would use 2 approaches
<tritium> I already plan to ask upstream to take it out.
<fabbione> tritium: either ask upstream to remove the dir
<fabbione> or otherwise repack the original from upstream, killing the debian dir
<fabbione> the latter is NOT a mortal sin
<tritium> Great, that doesn't sound so bad!
<fabbione> tritium: just remember to add a note that you did that
<herve> fabbione, even if it modifies the orig.tar.gz?
<tritium> Thanks again, fabbione :)
<fabbione> tritium: because people might check the md5sum from upstream and the one from your orig
<fabbione> and the 2 won't match
<tritium> indeed.  I would definitely note such a change.
<fabbione> tritium: so a good note in the README.Debian or in the changelog is good to have
<fabbione> herve: yes.
<fabbione> herve: as i wrote above. but this is not common practise
<tritium> fabbione, thanks for your time, especially so close to release
<fabbione> herve: we are discussion an exception
<herve> sure
<fabbione> tritium: no problem :) waiting for the DVD to burn is boring :P
<tritium> :)
<mvirkkil> Would anyone happen to know of any pygtk program that could use some love?
<Phython> herve: were you looking for me the other day?
<herve> Phython, yes, if you have packages still to review and upload
<Phython> herve: I haven't heard of any reviews on the WvStreams packages
<herve> in short, does hoary need them? :-)
<Phython> herve: they are basically the exact same as the debian packages I made, except that I changed libwvstreams-dev to libwvstreams4.0-dev so as to not cause problems for the wvdial in main
<Phython> herve: need, as in hoary will suck without them?  I doubt that
<herve> not a urgent fix then, thanks
<Nafallo> ey!
<Nafallo> someone changed ubuntu.com :-P
* Nafallo thought he was on the wrong page ;-)
<herve> you mean... defaced?! :-p
<Nafallo> herve: like you said :-)
<Lathiat> is it just me or is ubuntu.com running *really* slow
<tritium> fabbione, I'm going to go grab the powerpc daily live, and test it on a G5 now.  See you later!
<Lathiat> that can't be good if it is because it hasn't hit slashdot yet :)
<fabbione> tritium: later
<trulux> heya folks
<bddebian> Hello trulux
<trulux> hey bddebian
<trulux> I need to get tritium back :D
<trulux> anyone knows how to make brackets schemas with latex?
<Mithrandir> what is a bracket schema?
<trulux> Mithrandir: {
<dholbach> re
<trulux> each section and sub-section opens with {
<trulux> re dholbach
<trulux> ie. foo1 |
<trulux> ie.     | -> bar1
<trulux>       | -> bar2
<trulux> etc
<dholbach> still nothing on UniverseLastMinuteFixes?
<trulux> mine?
<dholbach> what about UniversePythonTransitionTODO and "being transitioned"?
<herve> trulux, \{ ?
<herve> dholbach, I tried another gcompris release, it's helpless
<trulux> herve: I will try
<herve> hmm... can you smell that lemon pie? :-)
<herve> dholbach, d3vic3 transition a whole bunch of python/zope packages, but still no wiki page update :-/
<herve> like someone transitioned spambayes but still marked as "being transitioned"... ;-)
<dholbach> koke did
<herve> so there's fewer to do than it seems
<herve> a bit few, but, still
<dholbach> UniversePriorityList -- 0% - 25% -- LOOKS GOOD
<trulux> herve: I need a long bracket
<trulux> herve: to fit the entries inside it
<trulux> herve: and then make subbrackets for each entry
<trulux> a typical brackets schema
<trulux> f you can show me any tex code anywhere, I would appreciate it a lot
<diamond> lo folks
<bddebian> Heya diamond
<diamond> dholbach: yo. i notice you removed ccmalloc, but it hasn't built on ppc has it?
<Mithrandir> what does the percentages on UPL mean?
<diamond> bddebian: morning
<dholbach> diamond: erm, i thought it had
<dholbach> Mithrandir: rank on popcon+
<diamond> Mithrandir: i think it's just the relative number of output lines for buildd
<diamond> ah
<crimsun> um
<crimsun> I fixed ccmalloc
<bddebian> er
<diamond> dholbach: guh. my bad. didn't see the ubuntu1 version.
<dholbach> ok
<diamond> i'll be quiet now -)
<crimsun> (http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/c/ccmalloc/0.4.0-2ubuntu1/)
<Mithrandir> dholbach: so 100% means "everybody has it installed"?
<dholbach> nope top 25% are the top 25% of packages in the user-has-installed-ranking
<Mithrandir> oook
<herve> trulux, I guess you win a whole trip through a latex tutorial :-)
<diamond> anyone need an amd64 package looked at? otherwise i'm just gonna go poke randomly as usual ,-)
<crimsun> mozart could use amd64 love
<crimsun> not very important, I'd spend my time elsewhere
<dholbach> somebody should look at universe bugzilla bugs
<diamond> dholbach: ok, i'll wander that direction.
<dholbach> i'm crawling over UniversePriorityLis
<dholbach> diamond: thank you very much
<trulux> herve: I have worked with latex for 2 months, just that I don't have time for a tuto right now
<herve> trulux, so it's a mathematical typeset?
<Mithrandir> lamont: please give-back gkrellm-reminder
<dholbach> Mithrandir: it already built on the real buildds
<Mithrandir> oh, ok.
<Mithrandir> shouldn't it be removed from "can't build" then?
<dholbach> so chuck it off the list, if you're logged in
<dholbach> yes
<diamond> herve: latex? general typeset, but it's maths capabilities are excellent
<Mithrandir> I'm not :P
<dholbach> i'll do it
<Mithrandir> thx
<herve> diamond, hu? er... sure!
<diamond> herve: tho i'm probably missing some context here -)
<herve> no one transitioned gtk-engines-mist?
<herve> I'll try then
<herve> diamond, tell trulux if you want to advocate the math mode :-)
<trulux> herve: no, it's just text
<trulux> herve: I will get in "hardcore" mode later
<trulux> It's for school work, for physics class
<dholbach> please all get in wiki/bugzilla/package-review mode :-)
<trulux> btw, I got the results of the wisc-r test
<dholbach> universe deserves some loving
<herve> dholbach, you forgot malone :-p
<dholbach> yes :-)
<dholbach> hula-reviews would be great
<herve> don't let malone alone!
<dholbach> hahaha
<dholbach> :-)
<herve> (oooook... this one was easy)
<Nafallo> :-)
<diamond> herve: gotta love those -)
<Nafallo> nice rhyme for getting more bugtesters ;-)
<Nafallo> s/bug//
* zendog salutes :)
<dholbach> someone fancies fixing http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/l/luxman ?
<dholbach> should be (on i386) something to fix in the debian/-dir, like adding "-r" to xargs
<diamond> dholbach: i have luxman building on amd64, it runs, but hangs -(
<diamond> don't currently have ubuntu on i386 tho
<dholbach> buildlogs here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/l/luxman/0.41-19.1/
<dholbach> diamond: same here... no i386
<diamond> dholbach: damn inferiour platforms -)
<diamond> *inferior
<Nafallo> *hum* dchroot *hum*
<diamond> Nafallo: aye, but that's a lotta stuff to d/l just to poke at one package. i think i'm more useful poking at amd64 stuff, seeing as there are less of us
<Nafallo> diamond: true. I keep forgetting my server is local :-P.
<dholbach> doko, ajmitch, dredg, tseng, Riddell, haggai: could you please have a look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePythonTransitionTODO and tick off, what you already transitioned? thanks a lot
<spacey> the wiki is really slow atm :p
<diamond> Nafallo: with an 8G quota per month on my dsl line, i'm already 3G in this month due to hoary stuff ,-)
<Nafallo> diamond: yay! quotas suck! get a real isp?
<diamond> Nafallo: i'm a student. real isps don't exist without real money -)
<Nafallo> diamond: true ;-)
<diamond> Nafallo: besides, i live in ireland, i'm lucky i can _get_ dsl -)
<diamond> the incumberant telco here sucks at rolling it out
<Nafallo> diamond: sweden here. we got dsl almost everywhere :-). a bush could order it ;-).
<diamond> Nafallo: oh yeah. was over there a month ago. you bastards. i wanna live there. -)
<Nafallo> my parents in the forest can have 8M/1M ;-)
<Nafallo> diamond: *s*
<diamond> Nafallo: i have a friend in stockholm who has 100M to his house for the same i pay here for 1M/128k
<Nafallo> diamond: myself is complaining about living to near one of those KC-stations only upgraded to two megabit :-P
<Nafallo> diamond: he's a student, isn't he?
<diamond> Nafallo: nono, he's old. around 31.
<dredg> diamond: yeah, sucks to be you
<Nafallo> diamond: ahh. bbb, that's with 300G quota :-P
<bddebian2> Hey, watch what you consider old!!
* diamond cries
<diamond> bddebian2: -)
<dredg> hmm, free 10M no cap with no cap :)
<dholbach> i hope somebody opens #ubuntu-bandwidth some day :-p
<bddebian2> <-- Is ancient then
<diamond> bddebian2: i'm a youthful 25 myself.
<bddebian2> Heh, got ya by 10 years :-)
<diamond> but i was very young when i was born
<Nafallo> diamond: lol
<herve> I wondered if I was on #u-m for a moment :-)
* diamond notes it's very easy to keep a straight face on irc
<dholbach> herve: hahaha, exactly
<dholbach> somebody could fix gaphor
<dholbach> it's on the PythonTransition as well
<herve> would you believe me if I say that's my fifth attempt to crate that $!#@ pbuild...
<dholbach> i look after tpb
<herve> tbp?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> on prioritylist
<herve> exactly
<herve> I can't find it
<dholbach>  tpb  Logs (6543)
<trulux> herve: how can I change Theorem label (the text shown in the converted doc) to the Spanish translation?
<trulux>  /renewcommand?
<herve> another cache issue I guess
<herve> trulux, use the babel package
<dholbach> dredg: what about the UniverPriority - things?
<dholbach> dredg: oops, i meant PythonTransition
<trulux> herve: it's already used
<trulux> just no translation for Theorem
<herve> I don't know further
<herve> I only used latex a year ago for my "mmoire"
<herve> I guess gcc is supposed to bring some "cc" alias?
<trulux> right
<herve> then...
<trulux> cc is gcc-3.3 in Hoary
<herve> ../libtool: line 861: cc: command not found
<trulux> hah
<herve> gcc-3.3 and -base installed
<diamond> herve: ls -l /etc/alternatives/cc
<diamond> herve: it should be a symlink to /usr/bin/gcc
<herve> diamond, -> /usr/bin/gcc
<herve> build-essential is installed too
<diamond> herve: sounds like libtool has got it's $PATH mixed up then
<herve> I don't have cc in my path too
<herve> but it looks goo
<herve> d
<diamond> herve: and /usr/bin/cc should be a symlink to /etc/alternatives/cc
<dholbach> maybe add  EXTRAPACKAGES=<something>
<herve> I could remake the link, but what happened...
<diamond> herve: i think alternatives is supposed to handle the link
<crimsun> what are the contents of /var/lib/dpkg/alternatives/cc ?
<herve> hi jani
<jani> hi herve
<dholbach> hey jani
<dholbach> jani: what about the pythontransition packages? are they ok now?
<jani> hey dholbacj
<jani> yes
<jani> they're done
<herve> manual - /usr/bin/cc - cc.1.gz - /usr/share/man/man1/cc.1.gz -- /usr/bin/gcc - 20 - /usr/share/man/man1/gcc.1.gz
<dholbach> could you state it on the list as well? :-)
<jani> forgot to delete them from wiki
<herve> I addded the dashes, of course
<jani> which list?
<dholbach> the wiki
<dholbach> could somebody please grab tpb package from  http://moz.gotdns.org/ubuntu/packages/  and try on i386?
<dholbach> i should read more closely *grmbl*
<herve> dholbach, you got it
<dholbach> herve: hm?
<crimsun> jani: systray is not affected by a symbol, will have to look at it post-Hoary
<jani> hmm what is it's problem?
<jani> I was just looking at it
<jani> unsupported by upstream?
<crimsun> jani: I haven't looked any closer than the error
<herve> dholbach, will try
<jani> xfprint doesn't load the cups_plugin
<jani> but if you go to printer settings that does
<dholbach> herve: thanks a lot
<jani> but printer settings only uses one function of the cups plugin
<crimsun> jani: k
<jani> while xprint and manager use a lot of the,
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/asc/1.15.3.0-1/  <--- easy fix (on i386), somebody please add   svgalib1-dev [i386]    to Build-Depends
<dholbach> (and try)
<herve> no!
<herve> libsvga1-dev
<herve> the former is deprecated
<dholbach> ah yes
<dholbach> ok... will do myself
<ajmitch> morning
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<dholbach> ajmitch: do you know about gnue-{reports,<something-else}-brokenness?
<herve> morning ajmitch!
<ajmitch> no, but it doesn't surprise me
<dholbach> ah
<dholbach> hm
<ajmitch> you know what the something else is?
<herve> I guess he was asking to you as an open question :-)
<dholbach> ajmitch: maybe i remembered wrong
<ajmitch> how long have we got to fix & upload stuff?
<dholbach> like short before 8 utc
<ajmitch> ok
<dholbach> ajmitch: would you please look over PythonTransition-page?
<dholbach> and look what you already solved?
<crimsun> removing tcpstat, built on all 4 arches
<ajmitch> too late to ask for sync, I guess
<diamond> dholbach: fixed malone bug #290: diamond.nonado.net/packages/gnucash for review if you have a chance
<diamond> dholbach: just changed the path in the .desktop
<dholbach> diamond: you're ok suffices
<dholbach> diamond: have a (Closes: Malone #290) in there?
<dholbach> looks fancier ;-)
<diamond> dholbach: no, just (malone #290)
<diamond> but i can change that real easy -)
<dholbach> is ok as well ;-)
<dholbach> no... it's ok
<dholbach> will upload
<dholbach> and somebody: please test hula :-)
* ajmitch has to go to work, will talk from there
<dholbach> ajmitch: see you later
<dholbach> ajmitch: syncing is alright
<dholbach> will look after kimdaba
<AstralJava> Hey all!
<dholbach> hey AstralJava
<AstralJava> Got a question about packaging.
<AstralJava> I was talking with crimsun a while back, and he got me into making .desktop entries for those many packages that either don't have or have a broken one.
<AstralJava> What's the schedule for them, it doesn't have anything to do with Hoary being released now?
<AstralJava> now == today
<crimsun> it looks like gcompris is only missing a libsvga1-dev b-d
<dholbach> AstralJava: we have like 7h30m until release
<crimsun> test-building on i386 now
<diamond> crimsun: aye
<herve> crimsun, ho no it is not......
<crimsun> herve: k, fill me in
<herve> crimsun, python transition, fscked up includes, missing .desktop... do I forget something?
<AstralJava> dholbach: Yeah, I was just thinking. Actually, I don't know what I was thinking. :)
<dholbach> AstralJava: don't worry, same here :-)
<crimsun> herve: "includes" as in preprocessor macros?
<dholbach> herve: broken auto*-voodoo
<AstralJava> dholbach: Been reading about design patterns for five+ hours....
<dholbach> AstralJava: that breaks the spirit
<AstralJava> Well anyway, now you know, I'll be working on those when I free myself from this cursed uni project.
<herve> crimsun, gtk/gnome api changes? I'm don't know more
<dholbach> diamond: uploaded
<diamond> dholbach: cool, thanks
<herve> dholbach, tpb pbuilt!
<dholbach> herve: rock
<dholbach> uploaded
<dholbach> somebody looked at luxman?
<dholbach> (of the i386 folks)
<dholbach> kimdaba fixed
<tritium> ogra, ping
<ogra> tritium, pong
<tritium> Hi ogra, sorry to bother.  Please don't upload krecipes after all, okay?
<ogra> ok
<tritium> Okay.  Thanks anyway ;)
<ogra> herzi, ping
<jani> crimsun, the systray message is not really an error it is misleading :)
<jani> I got it because I got another systray running already
<jani> I didn't know how systray is supposed to look like
<jani> one bug less ;)
<dholbach> luma should be easy to fix: python build-deps
<crimsun> jani: heh
<crimsun> jani: thanks
<jani> I suck
<jani> but the xprint issue is more serious
<jani> someone brought it up on users ml to after you asked for testers
<dholbach> ok, i take care of luma
<dholbach> there are millions of packages with bogus build-depends around
<dholbach> hrmbl
<dholbach> luma fixed
<dholbach> i look after sim
<AstralJava> Okay time to go to bed, see ya tomorrow. Oh, and have fun, who are there to witness the release!
<AstralJava> I'll go dream about it. :)
<dholbach> re
<herve> itou
* ajmitch_ @ work now
<herve> how does it feel? :-)
<ajmitch_> ?
<herve> nevermind :-)
<herve> I don't think I'll fix gtk-mist-engine before I must go
<herve> raaah
<dholbach> hm?
<herve> I found it
<herve> dholbach, about https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8324
<herve> I just pbuilt it
<herve> the latest from debian I mean
<dholbach> ok, tell elmo to sync
<dholbach> would somebody on i386 be so kind and test http://moz.gotdns.org/ubuntu/packages ?
<herve> is it long to build?
<dholbach> can't tell
<dholbach> don't think so
<herve> because I must go :(
<herve> my machines gets just too slow
<herve> but I have a package for you to upload before that
<herve> here: http://deb.oursours.net/motu/pending/
<Burgundavia> dholbach: luxman failed on i386
<Burgundavia> just a sec, maybe me
<dholbach> herve: will do
<dholbach> Burgundavia: the one on my site?
<Burgundavia> ya, but it was my fault
<dholbach> aha?
<dholbach> herve: thanks for fixing, uploaded
<dholbach> Burgundavia: could you try to build again?
<dholbach> or anybody else?
<Burgundavia> am doing so now
<dholbach> that stupid sim package is now building for 1h30m
<herve> good night all!
<dholbach> it's an icq clone *Grmbl*
<dholbach> sleep tight herve
<dholbach> and thanks for being here
<herve> sorry but sleeping 5h a night is not enough
<herve> +++
<Burgundavia> seems to have build find, installing
<herve> and remember, cheer up!!
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> built and installed, but it won't run
<dholbach> hrmbl
<Burgundavia> however, I don't trust that my system is sane anymore
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> but if it built, i'm glad
<Burgundavia> try a default setup
<dholbach> upload it anyway
<jani> crimsun I think I am getting closer to the xfprint bug
<tseng> hi dholbach.
<dholbach> hey tseng
<dholbach> ha... sim built
<tseng> so this new gdm theme
<tseng> wtf is mark smoking these days
<tseng> LAST MINUTE BONG HIT!
<ajmitch_> tseng: what does it look like?
<tseng> ajmitch_: it looks like a joke
<tseng> ajmitch_: see planet gnome
<crimsun> jani: k, what's up?
<tseng> davyd madly posted a shot
<jani> looks like cups_plugin.so is not dlopenable
<ajmitch_> ah
<ajmitch_> same image as on the website
<tseng> its also on the front page
<tseng> yes
<jani> missing symbol printer_free()
<jani> which is defined in common/printing-system.c
<crimsun> hum!
<jani> I think if they can be made to see eachother we're fine
<jani> I did a quick 10 liner C program to dlopen so files and then dlerror to see what's the problem
<jani> so from this standalone test it looks like plugin_cups.so is not built correctly???
<jani> maybe I am just tired and mistaken though
<jani> xfprint might need a -Wl,E too?
<crimsun> I hope not
<crimsun> looking through the build log not
<crimsun> now
<crimsun> no, it already uses --export-dynamic
<jani> hmm
<jani> oh sure
<jani> I loaded witha standalone program
<jani> which did not provide printer_free
<jani> :(
<jani> back to square 0
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/w/wayv should be an easy fix for powerpc-folks
<jani> ok so it is printer_free misising after all
<jani> I rebuilt glib and scattered printf and dlerror says the same as ofr the standalone porg
<jani> so it was ok since ld.so does all the relocations
<dholbach> i look at toursst
<dholbach> nevermind, was fixed
<dholbach> mvo: found anything nice on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo? :-)
<mvo> dholbach: still looking through the list :)
<dholbach> lists rather :-)
<jani> crimsun it is printer_free something fishy about it
<jani> objdump on cups_plugin says it is R_386_GLOB_DAT
<jani> while most other external refs are R_386_JUMP_SLOT
<jani> time to go read some docs :)
<mvo> dholbach: what do you consider most importend?
<dholbach> if i only knew
<diamond> mvo: the stuff that isn't done ,-)
<dholbach> ha... debuggtk ftbfs
<dholbach> that's funny :-)
<mvo> dholbach: in what list is it hidding :) ?
<mvo> diamond: :)
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePriorityList
<mvo> gee ... I'll make myself a cup of tea first
<dholbach> and i'll browse the bugzilla entries marked as UNIVERSE
<dholbach> ogra: do you know if graveman-0.3.10 fixed #8369?
<ogra> dunno, i dont have variable encoded mp3's around...i'll tag it needinfo
<ogra> the OP can probably tell
<dholbach> grubconf needed to be chucked out, right?
<ogra> uuuh, grubconf
<dholbach> grill?
<dholbach> toast?
<dholbach> nuke?
<ogra> YEAH
#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-19
<dholbach> ok
<ogra> or do you want to test it with all possible ubuntu grub setups  ?
<ogra> (thats a package that can really fuck your sytem if not working properly)
<dholbach> yeah maybe it will work with one of those 632.346 installs
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> hey Dr_Aevil
<dholbach> dredg :-)
<dholbach> ogra: it has gone... :-)
<ogra> yeah
<dholbach> dredg: do you know anything about the status of your PythonTransition packages?
<dredg> dholbach: all should be taken care of i think
<dholbach> ok... there are still some in "being transitioned"
<dredg> oh, hmm
<dredg>  mailping, toursst, jaxml are fixed either by me or someone else
<dredg> blender i had listed as problematic
<dholbach> hrm... hard to tell from  apt-cache showsrc blender
<dredg> wow, who killed planet.u.c with the stick of ugly?
<dredg> dholbach: right, it requires python to build as scons is basically python
<dredg> it builds in pbuilder
<dredg> but on the buildd it fails because of ccache
<dredg> ccache requires $HOME to be set. scons nukes the environment
* dholbach can feel the pain
<dredg> chicken. egg. chicken. egg. divide by chicken error.
<dredg> or something
<dholbach> :-)
<diamond> dredg: hah. look at gcc-2.95.
<diamond> dredg: it depends on cpp-2.95
<diamond> dredg: cpp-2.95 depends on, you've guessed it, gcc-2.95
<dredg> diamond: that's allowed
<diamond> dredg: ok, but how?
<dredg> diamond: with enough crack anything is possible
<dredg> please apply the above egg/chicken formula.
<dholbach> compiler-bootstrapping
<dredg> diamond: nah, i know it's possible. i just dunno how :)
* dholbach has some ... german ... lecture notes on that :-)
<diamond> dholbach: should i just google?
<dredg> i could probably read german
<dredg> i think. it's been some time
<dholbach> if you want to know how it works
<dholbach> i'll have a look
<dredg> not especially :)
<dholbach> mvo can tell... he knows everything about compilers
<Mithrandir> uhm, what are you wondering about?
<Mithrandir> how to get gcc-2.95 to build?
<dholbach> german info: http://www.inf.fh-dortmund.de/concute/contents/personen/dozenten/buechter/folien/foliensatz.zip :-)
<diamond> Mithrandir: yeah
<Mithrandir> "don't care" not being an option?
* dredg laughs
<diamond> Mithrandir: depending -)
<Mithrandir> gcc-2.95 is dead upstream and programs should just be ported if they're broken with newer gccs.
<diamond> Mithrandir: i'm inclined to agree, still tho
<dredg> dholbach: hmm, seems that it's been some time that i've had to read german :) perhaps it will come back to me some other time, when my brain is feeling less mushy and spongey
<Mithrandir> gcc can be built with more or less any c compiler, it's just a bit of hassle.
<dholbach> :-)))
<diamond> Mithrandir: aye, but the issue is that it build-deps upon itself. i don't understand why.
<T-Bone> me again
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/multipath-tools_0.4.1-1_20050407-1343 <- fails in 'clean' target :P
<Mithrandir> diamond: probably because it's broken if you try to build it with any other compiler, 'cause it's broken by itself.
<jbailey> ajmitch: Apparently nscd is selinux aware.
<ajmitch_> jbailey: ok.. I'll look that up
<jbailey> ajmitch_: I just happened to notice it fly by when running configure. =)
<jani> bbl
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/torch-examples_2-3_20050407-1218 <- invalid build-dep, expecting libtorch-dev (>= 2.3). Versionned build dep on meta package, bad. Should be libtorch3-dev
<dholbach> out for a walk.. brb
<dholbach> T-Bone: torch-examples was removed
<T-Bone> dholbach: because of the ftbfs maybe? :)
<dholbach> T-Bone: because of ETOOMUCHPAIN
<dholbach> brb
<T-Bone> oic ;)
<tseng> ENOMARYJ
<tseng> judging from your hackergotchi
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/wnn6-sdk_1.0.0-12_20050407-1249 <- that one might be looking for libwnn6.so.1.0.0 (at the end of the build)
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/sprng_2.0a-2_20050407-1215 <- doesn't stop where it should
<dholbach> tseng: LOL
<haggai> dholbach: thanks, removed my and Riddell's tasks which are done in PythonTransitionTODO
<dholbach> haggai: ROCK
<T-Bone> are you guys interested in -fPIC issues?
<Mithrandir> yes
<T-Bone> oh
<T-Bone> you're gonna love me then :)
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/soya_0.9.1-2ubuntu1_20050407-1159 <- -fPIC
<tseng> -fPIC affects amd64
<tseng> so
<tseng> fix it :)
<T-Bone> oh sure i will
<T-Bone> if you grant me clearance to upload fixed packages ;)
<T-Bone> actually it affects amd64, ia64 and hppa, afaik
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/sagasu_2.0.5-1_20050407-1027 <- want old gnome?
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/ngspice_15-2_20050407-0844 <- broken clean target maybe? binaries left over the place (long log)
<T-Bone> i have also a bunch of XFree -> Xorg transition bug but i suppose you guys already know them
<dholbach> T-Bone: which ones? how old is your snapshot?
<T-Bone> i don't have a snapshot
<T-Bone> i'm up-to-date with current source tree, update every 3 hours
<T-Bone> (from a.u.c)
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> fire away, which ones
<T-Bone> right now i'm stumbeling on iris and iterm, as it seems
<lamont_r> dholbach: there are some packages in the archive that haven't changed since they were built for warty... which means they've only been tried in hoary-test, and that was only partial, etc.
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/iris_0.12-1_20050407-0238
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/iterm_0.5-3.1_20050407-0241
<dholbach> lamont_r: yes... can imagine
<lamont_r> dholbach: those will be the ones that t-bone is hitting that you don't already have
<dholbach> take care of those
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/sppc_1.0.1-8.1_20050407-1212
<dholbach> sppc seems not so trivial
<T-Bone> dholbach: in a general way, if you look at http://buildd.slashdirt.org/FAILED.html ignoring all KDE and mozilla stuff, you should find mostly stuff of interest to you guys
<diamond> nite folks. ye guys are doing an amazing job
<T-Bone> there are a bunch of hppa-centric issues, i'll give them some love ;)
<dholbach> diamond: you do too!
<dholbach> diamond: sleep tight
* diamond waves
<T-Bone> dholbach: most of the errors there are X, -fPIC, or general rules borkage; mostly
<dholbach> cool
<T-Bone> and per Lathiat's request, mod-gzip should (if i have set it up properly) compress the logs so that you don't have to dl multi-megs files ;)
<T-Bone> hping3 needs syncing btw
<dholbach> iris uploaded
<dholbach> hping3 should have been synced
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/hping3_3.a2-1ubuntu1_20050407-0232 <- FTBFS (endianness issue, doesn't show on debian)
<dholbach> iterm uploaded
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/mkhppa3/xfld-welcome_0.2-3_20050407-1421 <- looks like missing b-dep
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/mkhppa3/muscle_3.51-1_20050407-1420 <- utmost sweetness "-mpentiumpro", yum...
<dholbach> crimsun, jani: ^-- xfce  stuff
<jani> yes?
<dholbach> xfld-welcome
<dholbach> sppc uploaded
<jani> I think it's ok we don;t need that package it's not part of xfce core
<dholbach> jani: shall it be removed?
<jani> yes
<T-Bone> i thought we were shipping all of debian main in universe?
* T-Bone needs to update himself :}
<dholbach> wiki/UniverseUnmetDeps still has some nice stuff :-)
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/mkhppa3/tightvnc_1.2.9-5_20050407-1211 <- most likely a rule issue. says : "To build Xvnc, do "cd Xvnc", followed by "./configure" then "make"", does "(cd Xvnc; /usr/bin/make World)" (lengthy log, issue at the end of course)
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/mkhppa3/xmms-alarm-bmp1_0.3.6-0.1_20050407-1224 <- busted source?
<T-Bone> http://buildd.slashdirt.org/logs/mkhppa3/blacs-mpi_1.1-23_20050407-1241 <- needs libmpich1.0-dev? (long log)
* T-Bone notices the clock, needs to go to bed. You guys can give a look at http://buildd.slashdirt.org/FAILED.html - don't bother too much with stuff not obvious enough, hppa has some weird issues sometimes ;)
<dholbach> xmms-alarm-bmp1 was removed afaik
<T-Bone> dholbach: ok. Of course, when a package is removed, the log remains, i have to purge them by hand :)
<dholbach> :-)
<T-Bone> i see you guys uploaded some stuff, autobuilders has just started :)
<T-Bone> s/has/have/
<T-Bone> FAILED.hmtl is uploaded every 1/2h, and the 'needs-build' list every 3h, fyi
<T-Bone> have fun and keep up the good work, i'm off to bed ;)
<ogra> night T-Bone
<T-Bone> thx
<jani> crimsun it looks like it was an -Wl,-E after all :)
<jani> I think it'll work :)
<jani> actually two, one for xfprint4 one for xfprint-manager
<schweeb> hiya everyone... how's progress on teh universe
<dholbach> hey schweeb
<schweeb> final job interview is tomorrow
<schweeb> yay
<dholbach> rocking! :-)
* ajmitch_ wishes he could install ubuntu on this work machine now  :(
<lamont_r> why can't you?
<ajmitch_> because it's a work machine, not one of mine
* T-None is running Warty at work ;)
* T-None ducks and goes to bed for good ;)
<schweeb> heh
<schweeb> I have my hoary workstation
<schweeb> s/workstation/laptop
<schweeb> and I have my warty workstation
<schweeb> and like 12 Debian servers
<schweeb> but soon, I'll be on a Solaris WS ;_;
* lamont_r had sid on his work machine
<lamont_r> when the boss told me I should leave windows on it (2 weeks after it arrived), I told him it was too late.
<jani> any MOTU please upload http://sourcecontrol.net/~jmonoses/hoary/xfprint4/
<dholbach> jani: will do
<jani> fixes xfce print manager hurray!
<jani> I can go home and sleep now :)
<dholbach> ROCK! :-)
<jani> thanks dholbach, you're an angel (or something ;)
<dholbach> jani: 300th upload! :-)
<dholbach> with all my love to the XFCE crew :-)
<jani> congrats to the most prolific MOTU the universe has seen!
<dholbach> :-)))))
<schweeb> lamont_r: doing solaris admin, I kinda need a solaris workstation, sadly enough
<ogra> dholbach, WOOHOOO
<ogra> \O/
<schweeb> dholbach: man, weren't you up to 200 just like a week and a half ago?
<lamont_r> schweeb: yeah, well..
* dholbach pipes innocently
<dholbach> jani: done
<ogra> schweeb, solaris ?
<ogra> how sad
<jani> crimsun, when you read this: thanks for fixing that 'quit' symbol problem :) I don't think I wouldn't have thought to this fix without remembering yours ;)
<jani> thanks daniel
<jani> goodnight all
<dholbach> any time :-)
<schweeb> ogra: it'll be a challenge, I'll have fun
<dholbach> sleep tight
<ogra> night jani
<jani> I'll have to come to work in the morning
* jani waves
* ogra wonders about fun and solaris....
<Riddell> abakus is uploaded?
<ogra> yop
<dholbach> i'll look at gaphor
<Riddell> woo
<Riddell> thanks ogra
<Riddell> dholbach: nooo!  gaphor sucks, Umbrello rules
<dholbach> Riddell: what do you think? for how many of the Universe packages do i have REAL LOVE?
<Riddell> dholbach: could you just make gaphor a meta package which depends on Umbrello?  pretty please?
<dholbach> Riddell: only if you fix wiki/UniverseUnmetDeps
<ogra> Riddell, btw, how is the kubuntu testing coming along ?
<ogra> (are we there yet ?)
<dholbach> Riddell: i could have slapped umbrello in the face six times a day, when i wrote about an uni project :-)
<Riddell> ogra: I think we still need to test the amd CDs
<Riddell> and not having an AMD64 machine that's kinday hard to do
<ogra> dholbach, you didnt write pure latex in vim ? o_O
<dholbach> ogra: the uml diagrams by umbrello were a bit on crack
<ogra> Riddell, i have no media anymore....and a broken dvd rom that only boots from dvd...
<Riddell> dholbach: well I never noticed any bugzilla entries from you
<dholbach> Riddell: that was like 9 months ago
<dholbach> or even longer
<dholbach> dia was even more broken :-)
<Riddell> dia is pretty good, it's just ment for different things
<tritium> dia still is broken
<Riddell> and dia is a work of perfection compated to Kivio :)
<Riddell> compared
<dholbach> i used autodia, which was... i don't find appropriate words for it
<dholbach> my feelings towards it were, getting a huge club from somewhere
* tritium has searched and searched for Hvels Original Bitterbier, but cannot find any in Indiana
<dholbach> Hvels rocks
<tritium> it was your recommendation that initiated my search
<dholbach> :-)
<mvo> yumm ... hvels
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> gaphor uploaded
<dholbach> anybody wants to join me fix the missing bits on UniversePythonTransitionTODO ?
<dholbach> i have a look at scalemail
<dholbach> scalemail fixed
<dholbach> anyone an idea why http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gaphor/0.5.1-2ubuntu1/gaphor_0.5.1-2ubuntu1_20050408-0139-i386-failed didnt work?
<dholbach> played nicely with my pbuilder
<crimsun> oh wow, so it was -Wl,-E ? great.
<crimsun> (thanks dholbach)
<dholbach> crimsun: hm?
<dholbach> for uploading?
<crimsun> dholbach: yep
<dholbach> np :-)
<lamont_r> dholbach: nfc
<dholbach> that's what i thought
<lamont_r> dholbach: "because it hateses you"
* dholbach cries desperately
<ogra> oh, herzi
<lamont_r> dholbach: how'd it do on the other architectures?
<dholbach> lamont_r: it's an  all  package
<dholbach> hi herzi
<ogra> herzi, i just uploaded hula, didnt expect you to come back tonight (you forgot to change the distribution from unstable to hoary)
<herzi> ogra: i'm on my way to bed
<herzi> bad alcohol...
<ogra> oh
<dholbach> so you had a release pre-party already :-)
<herzi> kindof
<herzi> weekly bar evening in the students doritory
* herzi plays the barkeeper and goes after the last guest
<herzi> good night
<dholbach> good night herzi
<dholbach> any low-hanging fruits in universe?
<tritium> Have a good night, everyone.
<crimsun> night tritium
<dholbach> bye tritium
<tritium> bye crimsun, dholbach :)
* tritium waves
<dholbach> hey StoneTable
<StoneTable> hey
<kiko> hey dholbach?
<kiko> duderino..
<ogra> kiko, he probably fell asleep in front of the keyboard.... :)
<dholbach> hey kiko
<kiko> wooo
<kiko> mdz tells me you have issues with gaphor
<kiko> still true?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gaphor/0.5.1-2ubuntu1/gaphor_0.5.1-2ubuntu1_20050408-0139-i386-failed
<kiko> okay
<kiko> it's a broken pofile
<dholbach> and i don't have no clue at all
<kiko> were translations for it recently updated?
<dholbach> nope
<kiko> it only happens with boxes with lots of memory :)
<dholbach> just grabbed the sources from last build and changed some python2.3 -> python2.4 stuff
<dholbach> erm
<kiko> can I see a diff?
<dholbach> just a sec
<kiko> dholbach, is there only one pofile there? nl.po?
<dholbach> yes
<ogra> strange
<dholbach> --- gaphor-0.5.1/debian/control
<dholbach> +++ gaphor-0.5.1/debian/control
<dholbach> @@ -2,7 +2,7 @@
<dholbach>  Section: devel
<dholbach>  Priority: optional
<dholbach>  Maintainer: Cdric Delfosse <cedric@debian.org>
<dholbach> -Build-Depends-Indep: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), python-dev, python-gtk2, python-diacanvas2, xvfb, xbase-clients, xfonts-base, xsltproc, docbook-xsl+Build-Depends-Indep: debhelper (>= 4.2.28), python-dev (>= 2.4), python-gtk2, python-diacanvas2, xvfb, xbase-clients, xfonts-base, xsltproc, docbook-xsl
<dholbach> that's not really much, hrm? :-)
<kiko> that's it?!
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> and a changelog entry
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> so it's breaking because a very large int is being supplied to struct.pack
<kiko> this large int is the number of messages in the pofile
<kiko> I was thinking this broke because of language packs
<kiko> no?
<mdz> unlikely
<mdz> language packs haven't affected the process yet at that point
<ogra> they dont pull strings from universe
<mdz> heh, that too
<ogra> (or do they ?? )
<kiko> pushing strings is more relevant here :)
<mdz> ogra: they do not, but even if they did, they only act on the build tree at the end
<ogra> ah
<kiko> can I see the pofile in the tree where the crash happened?
<mdz> lamont_r might be able to arrange that
<dholbach> http://moz.gotdns.org/ubuntu/nl.po
<mdz> if this is due to some regression in python 2.4.1, there will be hell to pay ;-)
<mdz> dholbach: I thought it didn't fail for you locally?
<lamont_r> mdz: build dirs all purge automatically - I can go force the issue, but would prefer to drive home first, now that my dvd is done downloading
<dholbach> mdz: no it didnt, just wanted to supply the pofile in question
<mdz> I think kiko wanted to be sure it wasn't modified somehow during the build
<mdz> lamont_r: I'm sure dholbach has other things to keep him busy ;-)
<lamont_r> heh
<kiko> mdz, right. just sanity check that the pofile is fine -- if it is, then something in the msgfmt.py code is broken, but that's standard python..
<lamont_r> running home now, back online shortly
<kiko> so I need to roll home too
<ogra> kiko, there is no single utf8 char in the po file
<kiko> ogra, and it's pretty short.
<ogra> yop
<dholbach> mdz: i collected all the low-hanging fruits in universe it seems :-)
<kiko> ogra, dholbach: I need to run off unfortunately; let me give you a pointer in how to track this down
<kiko> I suspect the pofile may be corrupt.
<kiko> if it's not, msgfmt is just being crazy and parsing it wrong
<mdz> hey
<mdz> I'm able to reproduce the failure here
<mdz> I'll do some debugging
<kiko> it may be that python2.4's included msgfmt.py works and gaphor's included copy is broken
<kiko> mdz, and it's a pristine pofile?
<ogra> only 10 strings ? must be a small program....
<mdz> here's the code in msgfmt.py:
<mdz>     output = struct.pack("iiiiiii",
<mdz>                          0x950412de,        # Magic
<mdz> [...] 
<mdz> >>> import struct
<mdz> >>> struct.pack("i", 0x950412de)
<mdz> Traceback (most recent call last):
<mdz>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
<mdz> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
<kiko> yeah, same as: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/gaphor/gaphor/po/nl.po?rev=1.5&view=auto
<kiko> hmm.
<mdz> I don't think the pofile enters into it at all
<kiko> why doesn't that happen for me?
<mdz> that value can't be packed as "i"
<kiko> err, sorry
<kiko> err wait
<kiko> there's an L missing there
<kiko> oh-oh.
<mdz> I get the same behaviour everywhere I try
<kiko> that's the problem :)
<kiko>    output = struct.pack("Iiiiiii",
<kiko>                          0x950412deL,       # Magic
<kiko>                          0,                 # Version
<kiko>                          len(keys),         # # of entries
<kiko>                          7*4,               # start of key index
<kiko>                          7*4+len(keys)*8,   # start of value index
<kiko>                          0, 0)              # size and offset of hash tabl
<kiko> that s the code in SVN:
<kiko> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/gaphor/gaphor/utils/msgfmt.py?rev=1.3&view=auto
<kiko> can someone find out where that L went?
<mdz> why is this code part of gaphor anyway?
<mdz> isn't there a 'pygettext' or such?
<kiko> hoho
<mdz> confirm that adding the L fixes the build
<kiko> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/gaphor/gaphor/utils/msgfmt.py?r1=1.2&r2=1.3
<kiko> that's why: we're packaging an old version of gaphor.
<kiko> the more recent version includes a fix
<kiko> interesting that nobody else caught that one.
<kiko> oh, well -- thought it was a more exciting issue. :)
<mdz> so this probably broke with python 2.3->2.4?
<dholbach> i'll try packaging a new one
<kiko> hmm
<mdz> dholbach: would be simpler  to apply the patch from CVS
<kiko> aha
<ogra> hmm, doesnt fail here on amd64...
<kiko> it used to be a futurewarning:
<kiko> >>> import struct
<kiko> >>> struct.pack("i", 0x950412de)
<kiko> <stdin>:1: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
<kiko> '\xde\x12\x04\x95'
<kiko> that's 2.3.
<mdz> yep
<kiko> mdz, so yes.
<dholbach> mdz: we want NEW crack :)
<schweeb> heh
<kiko> mdz, it used to turn into a negative value, which was in itself pretty bad eh?
<mdz> dholbach: what kind of machine did you do your build on?
<dholbach> amd64
<ogra> hehe
<kiko> hoho
<ogra> we're the blessed ones :)
<mdz> that still doesn't make much sense
<kiko> amd64's ints are long ints, aren't they?
<mdz> int on amd64 is still 32 bits
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> maybe python2.4 is rigged to use long ints everywhere on amd64?
<mdz> at least in C
<kiko> don't you hate all these different codepaths?
<kiko> anyway, dholbach, mdz: can I help with anything else?
<mdz> kiko: you are released, thanks for the help
<kiko> thanks a lot
<kiko> hopefully you'll be released shortly too
<dholbach> sleep tight kiko
<dholbach> building new version :-)
<lamont> does that mean you don't need the file?
<dholbach> ok... gaphor-0.7.0.1 makes problems, i'll get the patch from cvs
<ogra> hmm, jani has put nvu on NEW packages and reviewed it himself ??
<schweeb> lol
<schweeb> gg
<dholbach> mdz: if you have the time, would you please try to check  http://moz.gotdns.org/ubuntu/packages  if it fails now?
<dholbach> although... i could just upload it and see :-)
<mdz> dholbach: dpkg-deb: building package `gaphor' in `../gaphor_0.5.1-2ubuntu2_all.deb'.
<dholbach> NICE
<dholbach> thanks a lot!
* dholbach does a bit of the hoary dance already :-)
<dholbach> uploaded
* Riddell bites his thumb at gaphor
<ogra> LOl
<ogra> dholbach, seen daniels on -devel ? we wont run out of transitions ;) he removes /usr/X11R6 in breezy .....
<dholbach> ROCK
<ajmitch_> good to see
<dholbach> and i already thought i was jobless
<dholbach> ROCK!
<ajmitch_> ho long until release?
<dholbach> ogra: try installing hula via dselect/...
<ogra> 2h
<dholbach> ogra: works nice
<ajmitch_> dholbach: as fast as you work, they can break universe faster ;)
<ogra> dholbach, why the hell sould i touch dselect ?
<dholbach> ajmitch_: we'll see :)
<ogra> should even
<dholbach> ogra: whatever you like
<dholbach> nostalgia...
<ogra> *shudder*
<ajmitch_> XGl in breezy+1? ;)
<ogra> ajmitch_, work on it ;)
<dholbach> hopefully no wobble-stuff out of the box
<dholbach> i'll have a constant headache
<ajmitch_> ogra: i'd just like to be able to use the warty cd I have on my desk here at work :)
<ogra> dholbach, you'll get used to it...people got used to XP, you know ?
<dholbach> no, honestly i don't know :-) *wobble*
<ogra> ajmitch_, start with convincing your boss :)
<ajmitch_> at least the next server will be ubuntu or debian
<ajmitch_> currently a RHEL rebuild :)
<schweeb> dholbach: you must be a masochist, using dselect
<dholbach> no apt-get.org :'-/
<ogra> dholbach, still 1,5h
<dholbach> so what can we break in universe now?
<dholbach> any suggestions
<dholbach> i feel restless
<schweeb> dholbach: randomly morgue a package!
<schweeb> see what the effects are
<schweeb> heh
<crimsun> when is universe/multiverse frozen?
<mdz> dholbach: no apt-get.org?
<ogra> mdz, i thought elmo did it already...
<dholbach> mdz: i can see no build in lamont's buildlogs, so i assume the crack won't make it
<dholbach> schweeb: unfortunately elmo has a nice script telling him the reverse-depends :-)
<mdz> elmo has ~4 hours to make something happen, and still have 2 hours to allocate for builds
<dholbach> ~4h ?
<dholbach> then we're ok :-)
<lamont> mdz: if it just goes into hoary/universe, it'll just take off after the cron.daily that puts it there
<lamont> oh. nm
* lamont was misparsing again
<dholbach> let's add some desktop files!
* dholbach was only kidding :-)
<crimsun> I must go get some coffee
<ogra> dholbach, yeah, lets have a competition for the ugliest 30sec selfcreated icon and upload them ;)
<dholbach> hahhahhahaa
<dholbach> ogra: only problem: will take me half an hour to figure out how to work that .desktop file :-)
<schweeb> ogra: gotta be SVG though
<schweeb> that way it can be big AND ugly
<ogra> dholbach, just copy one over, who cares for menu entrys.... only thing that counts is a -desktop ile and a icon ;)
<dholbach> ogra: uuencode it? :-)
<ogra> schweeb, nah, only scanned pencil drawings as greyscale xpm
<dholbach> hahahahaha
<dholbach> "nach md kommt bld"
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> dholbach, my day was to bad....i'm allowed to become silly shortly before release
<dholbach> of course
<dholbach> lets make a MOTU project: fix gcompris or something else as nasty
<schweeb> eww
<ogra> *shudder*
<dholbach> schweeb: you pick one of our lists
<dholbach> ... one package ...
<dholbach> :-)
<schweeb> hrm?
<dholbach> i wasnt just talking :-)
<ogra> argh... hula is a novell advertisement...
<dholbach> ogra: there you go: replace the .xpms :-)
<ogra> lol, i doubt these are xpms
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> *CRY*
<dholbach> Obsidians I'm trying to use grubconf, and it always says "wrong password". What's going on?
<ogra> where what who ?
<dholbach> #ubuntu
<ogra> ML ?
<ogra> oh
<ogra> damned
<schweeb> I stay away from #ubuntu
<ogra> schweeb, you absolutely shouldnt
<schweeb> I don't feel like violating the CoC, which some of the stupidity in there would make me do
<dholbach> it's a challenge
<dholbach> :-)
<ogra> schweeb, these are our users, there you get your feedback
<schweeb> I occasionally have a short temper :)
<ogra> and see the bugs
<schweeb> ask StoneTable, my fuse is quite short at times
<ogra> ...and sometimes the fixes btw
<StoneTable> heh
<dholbach> HA, gaphor built!
<schweeb> I'm not the most patient person to educate people, so, I stay away
<schweeb> I have a low tolerance for idiocy
<ogra> schweeb, i didnt say you should talk on #ubuntu ;)
<schweeb> hehe
<StoneTable> and that's good for building up that tolerance
<schweeb> alright, next week, I'll be ready to plug away at some more important stuff again :)
<schweeb> anyone know if breezy devel is beginning immediately?
<ogra> woot, hula runs great
<StoneTable> The only word I've heard on that is that breezy should open up sometime after ubuntu down under
<schweeb> ahh
<schweeb> so after whip comes back all hyped up
<StoneTable> yep
<schweeb> hope sabdfl's got something really cool in mind for him
<ajmitch_> hopefully I'll have some time free after UDU
<dholbach> all sleeping? :-)
<ogra> nope
<dholbach> me nearly
* ogra plays with hula
<ogra> sending myself mail *g*
* dholbach logs into ogra's hula with admin / hula
<dholbach> ;-)
<ajmitch_> not sleeping yet :)
<ogra> to late :)
<ogra> already changed it
<schweeb> I keep forgetting to get myself a hula account
<dholbach> everybody have their own hula :-)
<schweeb> I'm too lazy to set it up
<ogra> but i'm really impressed, it absolutely runs out of the box...no need to tweak anything
<schweeb> I already have a nice mail setup going
<ogra> but all these novell logos are scary
<schweeb> ogra: give me an account :)
<ogra> ah, to lazy to fiddle with port forwarding on my router....
<schweeb> heh
<schweeb> I could set up another UML with Hula on my server... but that's a lot of effort too
<ogra> schweeb, but its really only an apt-get ....
<schweeb> I already have a secondary Cyrus/Postfix server going
<dholbach> schweeb: me too
<ogra> nah, dont use it on a server...
<schweeb> dholbach: I use courier on my current mail server :)
<schweeb> but I want to switch to Cyrus
<schweeb> I really want to switch work to Cyrus... courier is horrible performance-wise (and I don't trust Dovecot)
<dholbach> cyrus is ok
<schweeb> it's quite full featured and fast
<schweeb> and hugely hugely scalable
<schweeb> dholbach: man, you're up pretty late :)
<dholbach> yeah... i'll drop into bed soon
<ogra> schweeb, in fact its pretty early here ;)
<ogra> 05:57
<ajmitch_> dholbach: staying up for the release celebrations?
<schweeb> I'm a night owl myself :) 6am = late
<dholbach> yeah!
<schweeb> although I'm about to go to bed
<schweeb> and try to get on a regular sleep schedule
<dholbach> that's what i try next :-)
* ajmitch_ is still doing ip accounting stuff at work
<ajmitch_> dholbach: going to take a holiday from release until UDU? you deserve it ;)
<schweeb> depending on the outcome of tomorrow's interview, I'll be taking a 5 day holiday from work myself :)
<dholbach> haha :-)
<schweeb> if you haven't been able to tell, I'm pretty hyped :D
<dholbach> thanks ajmitch_ :-)
<dholbach> pals... i'm off to bed - enjoy the party, i'm too tired to be drinking, cheering and dancing with you - have a nice day, see you later
<schweeb> dholbach: lies!
<dholbach> hm?
<schweeb> you can never be too tired for drinking!
<ogra> ciao dholbach
<dholbach> :-))
<schweeb> night
<schweeb> gute nachten or whatver the proper tense is in german :)
<ogra> -en
<dholbach> "Gute Nacht" - so nearly :-)
<dholbach> thanks
<schweeb> it's been 7 years since HS german class :-)
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> *wave*
<jani> moring
<Treenaks> hi
<koke> hi MOTUs!
<dredg> hey koke
<dholbach> hey! how are the celebrations going?
<jani> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey jani
<jani> my colleagues are updating their ubuntus at work :)
<dholbach> *ROCK* :-)
<jani> I have to convert a gentoo user today, I am dling kubuntu.iso :)
<Gervystar> i have just updated my machines here in the office. And during this weekend we'll be showing ubuntu at a local event here in florence
<d3vic3> MOTU ROCKS
<dholbach> YEAH and you, d3vic3, ROCK as well! :-)
* Mithrandir bounces
<Burgundavia> sometime soon I have to start writing my talk as well
* d3vic3 spreading the news on local(ZA) LUG's  
<dredg> reminds me, must ask some local irish mirrors to sync
<ajmitch> hi all
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<diamond> morning folks
<dholbach> hey diamond
<dholbach> :-)
<diamond> dholbach: how're things? -)
<dholbach> diamond: i'm writing mails to all the apt-get.org package maintainers, whose packages made it in
<herzi> mornin
<dholbach> herzi: how's your head?
<herzi> my head's fine, my back aches
<dholbach> why that?
<dholbach> bbl
<diamond> rather OT question: what time of the day is it that debian testing gets updated?
<dholbach> hrm, shall i also write the apt-get.org guys, whose packages ftbfs?
<ogra> dholbach, come on....take a day off.....
<dholbach> ogra: i want to finish this :-)
<dholbach> and after that start some hacking on my thesis
<ogra> dholbach, this will never be finished
<dholbach> neglected it for far too long now
<dholbach> ogra: a lesson i have yet to learn
<ogra> thats OSS :)
<dholbach> no, that's life
<ogra> heh
<diamond> laters
<desrt> Lathiat; word.
<desrt> :)
<Lathiat> desrt: up :)
<desrt> ok.  i've had enough of this universe business.  off to school.
<dholbach> you now already have enough? :-)
<desrt> it just came at a bad time
<desrt> my friend is defending his thesis at 10pm (55 minutes).  gonna go watch :)
<dholbach> alright - have a nice day
<dholbach> and tell him "good luck" from me
<crimsun> morning, MOTUs :)
<ogra> hey crimsun
<dholbach> hey crimsun!
<crimsun> hey ogra, dholbach :)
<tritium> hi crimsun
<crimsun> hi tritium :)
<tritium> ogra, that's the first I hear of needing 3X ram swap for hibernate.
<tritium> I've had good success with my swap twice the size of my ram
<herzi> my swap is only the size of my ram and everything works
<Mithrandir> works fine for me with 2GB swap and 1.5GB memory
<tritium> herzi, including suspend-to-disk?
* herzi doesn't suspend to disk, he only hibernates
<ogra_> LOL
<dredg> hmm, hibernate... winter *is* coming
<Mithrandir> what's the difference?
* dredg gathers food
<bddebian> Morning folks
<crimsun> mo'n
<tritium> morning bddebian
<herzi> Mithrandir: hibernate suspends to ram (which is faster) but still needs some power to keep up the data in the ram
<ogra_> herzi, nope
<herzi> so please correct me
<Mithrandir> herzi: I call that suspend-to-ram
<ogra_> herzi, hibernate suspends to disk
<Treenaks> ogra: suspend-to-ram suspends to ram
<ogra_> Treenaks, yup
* Treenaks is stating the obvious again
<tritium> dholbach, so what kind of replies are you getting from apt-get.org maintainers?
<dholbach> all were very surprised
<dholbach> but like it so far
<dredg> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> pong
<tritium> did you end up using python-matplotlib from the apt-get.org repo?
<dholbach> tritium: no
<dholbach> dredg: pong
<tritium> dholbach, cool :0
<GheRivero> res
<fabbione> dholbach: ping?
<dholbach> fabbione: pong
<fabbione> ah you are around....
<dholbach> was it just a test? :-)
* p1nhead send infite pain to dholbach 
* p1nhead driving him to painfull death
<p1nhead> now
<dholbach> what's wrong with you? :-)
<p1nhead> dholbach
<dholbach> i had enough pain already
<p1nhead> no.. i would be more warroied of what will be wrong with you soon
<p1nhead> dholbach: dpkg -p php-banana
* fabbione keeps larting dholbach with a huge cluebat
<dholbach> fabbione: did you sleep the last week? :-)
<fabbione> no :)
<dholbach> fabbione: wait until i meet you... i'll mud-wrestle you when i'm through with pitti
<dholbach> ;-)
<fabbione> but you somehow managed to get elmo to import a package that is php-banana
<fabbione> php-banana - foobar
<fabbione> Foobar
<ogra> hehe
<fabbione> that doesn't really look good :)
<dholbach> ARG
<dholbach> ARG
<dholbach> ARG
<ogra> the glory of apt-get.org
<dholbach> but the maintainer already mailed me
<fabbione> dholbach: remember that i still have kernel access level to your machine...
<dholbach> fabbione: i don't care :-)
<fabbione> + another 1000 or more source packages
<dholbach> i'll make sure he'll fix it
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> also.. let's talk anout haul
<fabbione> or hail
<fabbione> or whatever is spelled
<ogra> howl
<ogra> its a svn experimental package
<fabbione> i had some objections about his Dependency
<fabbione> because they are too strict
<dholbach> herzi: you're there?
<dholbach> fabbione: you mean the m-t-a/imap-server ones?
<dholbach> hahaha, now he left
<fabbione> dholbach: all the packages have a Dep: ({= Source-Ver})
<ogra> jop, i know.... thats a fix for breezy, i added a warning to the package description
<fabbione> or something like that
<dholbach> fabbione: could you elaborate on what's wrong with that?
<ogra> fabbione, it should be a tech preview, for that aspect the package is quite well
<fabbione> dholbach: too strict dependencies for no reason
<fabbione> making impossible to update one module only of the pkg
<ogra> dholbach, one security update of one of the libs howl depends on and the package is uninstallale
<fabbione> ogra: i am not complaining about the package
<fabbione> that was very good
<dholbach> fabbione: if you saw the code you'd want to make sure it's one version only :-)
<fabbione> the Dependencies were crap
<dholbach> i think it's a "security" measure :-)
<fabbione> dholbach: i wrote the comment on the wiki
<dholbach> ogra: which one?
* fabbione keeps hitting dholbach with a cluebat 
<dholbach> fabbione: i know and i really wanted to talk to herzi to fix it
<ogra> fabbione, hey, hit me
<ogra> fabbione, i decided it should go in
* fabbione inflicts some pain to ogra too
<dholbach> but he was away and i then talked to miss vogt about the dependencies
<dholbach> just to have more opinions
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione>  ok
<fabbione> you both got some pain
<ogra> yeah, from you thats fine :)
<dholbach> fabbione: you now feel better?
<fabbione> next time i will power on the sodomotron
<dholbach> HAHAHAHAHAHAA
<fabbione> brb
<ogra> heh
<fabbione> i need a smoke
<dholbach> i can imagine
<fabbione> ogra, dholbach: you own a beer to elmo
<ogra> yeah, UdU will be wet
<fabbione> eheh
<fabbione> good
<dholbach> fabbione: yeah... talked to him aout it already
<AstralJava> Hi guys, how are the release parties going thus far?
<dholbach> ogra: re howl: which one
<dholbach> AstralJava: going to have a beer with mvo tonight
<ogra> dholbach, dunno...any dep...
<dholbach> ogra: which package?
<AstralJava> Right on. Have fun. Release going smoothly?
<dholbach> AstralJava: seemed so :-)
<AstralJava> At least I'm not getting anything on upgrades. :)
<ogra> dholbach, libssl0.9.7 is a good candidate
<ogra> (hula-manager)
<dholbach> what was with howl?
<ogra> howl ?
<ogra> err----> howl == hula ^^
<dholbach> ogra dholbach, one security update of one of the libs howl depends on and the package is uninstallale
<ogra> yeah, sorry
<dholbach> all packages will have to be transitioned, if libssl0.9.7 should change
<dholbach> i don't know what you're talking about? :-)
<ogra> dholbach, they wont....universe is stable
<dholbach> ok, please tell me: what should i worry about?
<ogra> if you have libssl0.9.7.1 nothing needs to change if you have deps >= but it breaks with deps ==
<ogra> so if libssl0.9.7 gets a security update, hula will likely be uninstallable
<dholbach> show me, where it depends == on libssl0.9.7
<dholbach> some binary packages depend on (== ${Source-Version}) of hula's own binary packages
<dholbach> so it's alright
<ogra> ah, ok... then misunderstood fabios comment...
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> i thought i had to worry :-)
<dholbach> phew... ;-)
<ogra> hmm, but if hula itself gets a security update we'll need to update the whole bunch, not only the broken package...
<dholbach> it's always that way, if you have a source package that has multiple binary packages
<dholbach> i'm out... see you later guys - and have fun at the parties!
<herve> goooood... morning #motu!
<AstralJava> Morning.
<AstralJava> And congrats!
<AstralJava> :)
<ogra> hey herve
<herve> ?
<herve> well, you too :-)
<AstralJava> Hehe. :) I just thought it seemed appropriate. :)
<AstralJava> I'm just beginning this thing, but you guys sure have done an amazing job.
<herve> tell that to #u-devel too :-)
<AstralJava> I would, but I don't dare go there yet. :)
<AstralJava> You can forward my best wishes. :)
<herve> ho no, there're nice
<herve> congrats are welcome, for sure!
<AstralJava> Well, I might pop in at least for a while then.
<herve> no more daily update, I look forward to breezy opening!
<AstralJava> When is that anyway?
<AstralJava> Oh, and while on the subject, is Hoary altogether frozen now? I'm thinking about the packages, when I provide ones with correct .desktop entries, will they end up in Breezy?
<ogra> yup
<AstralJava> Right on.
<motaboy> Hi all!
<AstralJava> Hello motaboy!
<hsprang> hy!
<ogra> hi hsprang
<herve> hiya!
<hsprang> congratulations to the release! i've not been here since a while - real life and working on the next FAI debian release which will come this weekend, too :)
<hsprang> followed by a ubuntu-FAI release soon :)
<AstralJava> hsprang: What's a FAI release, if I may ask?
<hsprang> AstralJava,  FAI stands for Fully Automatic Installation - a debian package for - nah, you guess it :) - over the network and since the newest version on cd
<hsprang> AstralJava, http://www.informatik.uni-koeln.de/fai/  hmm, i wrote a howto page in the ubuntu plone howto center, but the compkete howto section is lost...
<dholbach> hey!
<hsprang> AstralJava, ubuntu-FAI means only a FAI package for ubuntu that can install ubuntu, which the debian-synched package cannot without some tweaking
<hsprang> dholbach, hy - you missed my gratulation for the release!
<dholbach> oh... he... thanks :-)
<dholbach> we ALL did great work
<AstralJava> hsprang: Okay thanks, great to hear it's coming! ;)
<dholbach> hey herzi
<herzi> hi
* herzi just got www.criawips.org
<dholbach> woohoo!
<dholbach> i thought you were about to change the name?
<dholbach> easy-as-123.org or something? :-)
<herzi> yep
<herzi> but spotlight.org is taken, so i need to search for another cool name
<siretart> hi folks!
* siretart just installing hoary on amd64 :)
<dholbach> siretart: ROCK
<siretart> :)
<hsprang> does anybody here know, what happened to the howto section of the ubuntu website?
<hsprang> i once wrote a howto there, and now it's gone...
<dholbach> hsprang: argl :-/
<sladen> hsprang: I think it's down at the moment
<dholbach> we had the big WIKI blowup
<AstralJava> Wiki database broke, what, week ago?
<dholbach> everything was reverted to a 3-days-ago--state
<hsprang> is it already sure that the data's gone or just possible? or even sure it's there just not shown?
<trulux> shit... I'm having trouble hre
<AstralJava> AFAIK, they're gone.
<zombie_> Hello everyone, does "hardware-monitor" actually works with Gnome 2.10? I'm getting crashes upon startup
<AstralJava> It does, yes.
<AstralJava> No wait.
<hsprang> the howto was in the support-> documentation-> howto section, not excatly in the wiki, but i just see it now looks different than 20 minutes ago...
<zombie_> I even tried compiling from source, got the same results
<zombie_> I know it didn't use to work in the past (found it in a message or something)
<AstralJava> I'm dl'ing it now.
<zombie_> fine
<zombie_> btw, where am I supposed to report bugs in universe?
<crimsun> malone
<dholbach> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<crimsun> (see topic)
<zombie_> thanks
<zombie_> sorry i had to quit
<zombie_> AstalJava, did you check that package?
<AstralJava> I downloaded and installed it, but I can't find it. :)
<crimsun> AstralJava: how did you download it?
<zombie_> I am not sure what you mean
<zombie_> it's package hardware-monitor
<zombie_> ah yes
<AstralJava> Yeah. I just thought it's something else.
<zombie_> it's a gnome applet
<AstralJava> Right.
<crimsun> just add the applet to a panel
<AstralJava> Nope, crashes right away.
<zombie_> i sent an email to the author
<zombie_> he says that Ubuntu's package is broken
<zombie_> but "someone" got it to work by compiling it from source
<zombie_> i tried it, but din't work
<AstralJava> Hmm...
<zombie_> i'll try that again later (after I upgrade everything to the latest version)
<AstralJava> Do you have a link to the sources?
<zombie_> just a moment
<crimsun> apt-get source hardware-monitor?
<zombie_> http://www.cs.auc.dk/~olau/hardware-monitor/
<crimsun> or is pristine upstream necessary?
<zombie_> http://www.cs.auc.dk/~olau/hardware-monitor/source/hardware-monitor-1.2.1.tar.bz2
<zombie_> I tried both actually
<siretart> hoary ROCK! finally my front usb ports work!
<dholbach> :-)))
<AstralJava> zombie: Going to compile in minutes.
<siretart> was really weid, sarge kernel left the ports dead..
<zombie_> ok
<zombie_> going to try the compiled from source version
<zombie_> maybe i'll have to quit gnome after that :-)
<siretart> WOAH, and even my tvcard was configured correctly. What kind of black magic are the kernel guys doing there? this was supposed to NOT work on my old card!
<zombie_> ok, it crashed but at least gnome-panel survived (this time)
* ajmitch wonders when breezy will be open for work
<dholbach> with UDU, i guess :-)
<ajmitch> so we've got a 2 week holiday until then?
<dholbach> write some cool code, prepare some packages, upload them to debian, ... :-)
<ajmitch> time for me to upgrade my machines to the final hoary release then
<ajmitch> bbl :)
<dholbach> *wave*
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: probably over the weekend.
<AstralJava> I seem to be out of my head. I do ./configure, it succeeds, I do
<AstralJava> 'make', and it gives me errors. Am I missing something?
<crimsun> what are you trying to compile?
<AstralJava> hardware-monitor
<dholbach> good night pals, i'm off to bed
<crimsun> bye dholbach!
<dholbach> bye crimsun
<AstralJava> bye dholbach
<dholbach> bye AstralJava
<zombie_> well, dependencies probably
<AstralJava> Dan, I still have that problem with dual booting in an encrypted environment. Sucks really.
<crimsun> AstralJava: apt-get build-dep hardware-monitor
<AstralJava> Woo, yeah, that's probably it. 86 megabytes to download. :)
<zombie_> oh
<AstralJava> Heh.
<AstralJava> Have I done something wrong?
<crimsun> (no)
<zombie_> sounds too much I think
<zombie_> but then...
<crimsun> absolutely not
<AstralJava> Well, my first Ubuntu (real) support case done. :)
<crimsun> apt-cache depends hardware-monitor
<crimsun> that contains _a lot_ of X Window System and GNOME devel packages
<AstralJava> I'm on my way heading towards a membership. :)
<zombie_> :-)
<crimsun> great :-)
<zombie_> I think I'll file a bug report and maybe contact the author again (some other day)
<AstralJava> Gotta tell you, never ever have I been so enthusiastic about something inside my field of profession.
<AstralJava> Ubuntu completely turned it for me.
<zombie_> great
<AstralJava> zombie: Can ya wait until I get mine compiled?
<zombie_> of course
<zombie_> it's better to have this double checked anyway (in case I am doing something wrong)
<AstralJava> By the way, you're not from Australia, are ya?
<zombie_> no
<AstralJava> 'k.
<zombie_> i am a .gr guy
<AstralJava> There was this guy on UserFriendly who just used the same nick.
<AstralJava> Right on, Greece rocks.
<zombie_> I see
<zombie_> heh :-)
<AstralJava> Got a very, very good friend in there.
<zombie_> Really?
<AstralJava> Kostas lives in Athens nowadays, and will be visiting this next summer again.
<zombie_> Lucky guy (if you can cut on the expenses)
<AstralJava> HEheh. :)
<AstralJava> He's cheap, why else would he be my friend. ;)
<zombie_> :-)
<AstralJava> Okay then, ./configure seems to do much better a job this time.
<AstralJava> *pout*
<AstralJava> make still won't succeed.
<zombie_> The author says "./configure --prefix=/usr; make; make install" should do it
<AstralJava> Hang on.
<zombie_> did you make clean or something?
<AstralJava> No, I untarred it in my /home, then did ./configure
<AstralJava> I shouldn't do this, but I'm too tired and didn't read any notes.
<AstralJava> Can ya see I'm still wet behind my ears? ;)
<zombie_> Do you by any chance have another (other than Ubuntu) distro with Gnome 2.10?
<AstralJava> Nope.
<zombie_> I think it could be a problem with gnome 2.10 <-> hardware-monitor but i won't know until i try it
<zombie_> maybe i'll try a warty+hardware-monitor and see what happens (i have a spare partition and too much free time)
<AstralJava> Heh, do that. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
<zombie_> no problem
<AstralJava> Still in my learning phases...
<zombie_> someone has to matters in his own hands
<zombie_> I just hoped this someone wouldn't be me! :-)
<zombie_> anyway thanks for your time
<zombie_> gotta go now
<AstralJava> Ok, see ya.
<zombie_> bye
<tseng> yawn
<tseng> when is breezy open
<ogra> tseng, shortly after breezy-backports is up
#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-20
<crimsun> ooh
<crimsun> breezy-backports? lemme get that url!
<tseng> ogra: are you joking?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> its release day....dont take me serious
<tseng> ok
<crimsun> =)
<ogra> :)
<tseng> my hand is shaking
<tseng> odd.
<ogra> time to set up your own buildd then ;)
<trulux> WOOOHAAAA
<trulux> waka waka
<trulux> tseng: hand shaking? I hope there's no comb. with porn
<tseng> no
<trulux> tseng: good
<trulux> tseng: tomorrow I will have finished the first gcc-3.4-hardened package
<tseng> ok
<trulux> tseng: how're you doing, btw
<tseng> can someone tell me for sure what gcc we are using for breezy
<tseng> fine trulux, a little busy
<trulux> yeah, the gcc version for breezy is something I really need to know, I won't have a lot of tie for finishing the SSP GCC-4.0 port
<trulux> s/tie/time ;P
<tseng> doko: can you speak to what gcc version will be default in breezy?
<doko> there's a rumor that we'll target for 4.0 ...
<tseng> wild.
<trulux> hah
<Mithrandir> doko: that's crazy, I say.
<tseng> sounds it
<trulux> doko: I will need to work with someone experienced in gcc-3.4 to 4.0 transition, in development terms
<trulux> ret_into_stack functions are no more available on 4.0
<trulux> which fucks my bloody ass and makes me pretty disappointed with some code porting
<doko> Mithrandir: why?
<tseng> you said "fucks my bloody ass"
<trulux> weird thing, any thoughts on a Glibc upgrade? (*shrug*)
<tseng> thats brilliant.
<trulux> tseng: that's weird too
<trulux> tseng: damn it
<tseng> id blog it if it werent on planet
<Mithrandir> doko: look at the gcc-3.4 archive in debian-amd64?
<trulux> tseng: I hope you don't
<jbailey> trulux: What do you need re: a glibc upgrade?
<trulux> tseng: btw, I need to talk to jdub to get in the planet
<trulux> jbailey: just asking
<tseng> you need to be a member
<trulux> tseng: I'm applying
<tseng> ok.
<jbailey> trulux: I'm not sure what you're asking though. =)
<doko> Mithrandir: where's the gcc-4.0 archive as a comparision?
<Mithrandir> doko: the gcc-3.4 archive is gcc-4.0 now. :P
<trulux> jbailey: glibc 2.3.4
<trulux> Mithrandir: :)
<jbailey> trulux: 2.3.5 was release yesterday morning, it's what I'm testing with now.
<jbailey> released, even.
<trulux> jbailey: sounds good, how's it going?
<doko> Mithrandir: so why is 3.4 better?
<Mithrandir> doko: I'm not sure it's better.
<Mithrandir> I'm just saying we'll have a lot of failures
<jbailey> trulux: No testsuite failures on my test ppc system.
<Mithrandir> and we want to switch until Debian does.
<Mithrandir> I think
<doko> I can't deny that
<jbailey> Mithrandir: If we stay with 3.4 we'll have multiple compilers to support, which might be more of a pain.
<jbailey> All the changes that need to happen for 4.0 need to happen anyway.
<doko> Mithrandir: Debian will switch when unstable becomes independent from sarge. It's just a question _when_ we'll have to bite the apple ....
<Mithrandir> doko: I know..
<Mithrandir> doko: it just makes me want to stab myself with a spoon.
<Mithrandir> -
<doko> :)
<doko> jbailey: we might have to support 3.4 for g77
<trulux> jbailey: good, any intenttion to give it a try for packaging?
<jbailey> doko: Yeah, I guess. =(  Does it have to be in main?
* ajmitch returns
<jbailey> trulux: If you have a ppc system, I could hand you .debs right now.
<jbailey> Note that I haven't got all the language pack stuff in, so it will break things that you expect to work.
<ajmitch> 208 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<ajmitch> Need to get 349MB of archives.
<ajmitch> shows that I got a bit behind ;)
<doko> jbailey: yes, python-numeric-ext build-depends on it ;)
<jbailey> doko: Bah, and this is the wrong crowd to shout "Fie Python!" in, isn't it? ;)
<doko> jbailey: there's no java replacement ;-P
<ajmitch> jbailey: but you love python
<jbailey> ajmitch: The sad part is that I do like python.  I just wish that distutils would go away.
<trulux> jbailey: no ppc here
<trulux> jbailey: only i386
<jbailey> trulux: I'm doing my development on ppc and ia64 at the moment.  I'll do i386 a bit later, since it's my slowest machine.
<trulux> jbailey: oh, ok, that could rock
<jbailey> trulux: Is ther esomething you're looking for in particular?
<tritium> trulux, are you still struggling with gnuplot?
<tritium> trulux, I'll look for you after dinner...
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> I should work on packaging e17
<schweeb> shadoi already makes packages... you should probably look at them and see if they're acceptable
<crimsun> were they listed on apt-get.org? If so, they'll be pulled in for Breezy.
<schweeb> no
<schweeb> http://shadoi.soulmachine.net/2004/11/enlightenment-for-needy.html
<crimsun> ok, thanks.
<crimsun> I'll contact and see about cleaning them up.
<schweeb> he does occasional builds from CVS... dunno how often exactly
<whiprush> did dholbach stop by today? or is he dead from packaging?
<dholbach> morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<ajmitch> how does it feel to wake up & not have lists of packages to work on? ;)
<dholbach> boring, very boring indeed :-)
<dholbach> i think i'm doing some hacking on my thesis now :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> if only I could put off my work until after releases :)
* ajmitch makes a note to try & beat dholbach for number of uploads for breezy ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch: i hope it opens up soon, i have like 30 packages lying around which just need uploading
<ajmitch> what, only 30? ;)
<dholbach> was only kidding ;-)
<dholbach> did you see jordi's blog entry about seb210?
<dholbach> http://oskuro.net/blog/freesoftware/seb210-2005-04-08-20-30
<Treenaks> that one's great
<Burgundavia> dholbach, I have another source for you
<Burgundavia> most of the stuff we already have, but there are a few new things
<dholbach> Burgundavia: would you mail it to me, so i could back there as soon as breezy opens?
<Burgundavia> dholbach, hey, np
<dholbach> ROCK :-)
<Burgundavia> dholbach, I will do the checking for what we have and don't have
<Burgundavia> so you know exactly what to pull
<dholbach> Burgundavia: i'd rather mail the maintainer
<Burgundavia> this is from another debian deriv
<Burgundavia> most of the stuff is debian sid
<hsprang> g'morning!
<dholbach> hey hsprang
<hsprang> dholbach, just saw you planned a "release barbecue", but as you where here yesterday, this didn't happen, i guess?
<dholbach> not really
<dholbach> mvo and i are going to have a beer today :-)
<dholbach> we REALLY need to improve the loco-team structure :-)
<hsprang> at least there are some more people next to you - here in the north i could have a beer with me and myself :) hm, or go to london...
<hsprang> bbl, breakfast...
<dholbach> hsprang: herzi should live near you (somewhere in hamburg at least)
<dholbach> see you later
<hsprang> re
<herve> hi!
<HostingGeek> hi
<HostingGeek> How dear you not say hi to super herve!
<HostingGeek> How do you think you are?
<trulux> woka
<HostingGeek> *Who
<HostingGeek> Treenaks: woka != the king!
<HostingGeek> * trulux
<HostingGeek> to many people in this channel
<Lathiat> yeh get out, your crowding us
<herve> HostingGeek, you make too much noise
<HostingGeek> no for tab completions
<Noise> herve: better?
<herve> worst
<Noise> :(
<trulux> oh no, he's back!
<tseng> jeez im the #3 hit on google for dpatch
<Lathiat> haha
<HostingGeek> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/screenshots/document_view is showing the nice human colors
<HostingGeek> not the ones in the final which look UGLAY!!!!!
<HostingGeek> ubuntu is starting to suck now... i loved brown! i hate redish-brown!
<HostingGeek> like the redish theme made me rethhink ubuntu...
<HostingGeek> ubuntu now only rocks because of the motu team
<Burgundavia> HostingGeek, please keep your talk to universe/multiverse mattesr
<HostingGeek> Burgundavia: ok
<herzi> hsprang: which part of hamburg are you from?
<herzi> dholbach: take a look at our ident strings and you'll see the we're both from hamburg
<herzi> s/the/that/
<dholbach> herzi: i knew before :-)
<hsprang> herzi, he already knew that and told me when i was worried about having my releas party only with me and myself :)
<herve> dholbach, hi Daniel!
<dholbach> hey herve
<dholbach> how are you?
<herve> quite fine
<herve> slept enough :)
<dholbach> :-)
<herve> what about you?
<herve> you party for the hoary release?
<dholbach> i'm fine... thanks - went back to a normal sleep cycle :-)
<dholbach> herve: i'm going to have a beer with mvo tonight
<ogra> dholbach, how silly, you should train yourself on .au cycle :)
<dholbach> nothing exciting, we need to improve the LoCo teams :-)
<herve> and work on your thesis next week? :-p
<dholbach> ogra: haha... nothing to train - i think i'm quite good at surviving without sleep :-)
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> herve: yeah... i'll do some hacking on it
<dholbach> herve: already had a bunch of ideas
<herve> don't forget them ;-)
<herzi> dholbach: about loco-coordination: http://blaubeermuffin.de/deutschlandkarte/
<dholbach> herve: we absolutely need that
<dholbach> herve: oops
<dholbach> herzi: we absolutely need that
<herzi> :D
<AstralJava> Hi folks.
<dholbach> herzi: you should talk to jdub and smurfix
<herzi> http://blaubeermuffin.de/stuff/deutschlandkarte.tar.bz2
<hsprang> herzi, dholbach i like the idea with that map, too!
<hsprang> hy AstralJava
<dholbach> hsprang: #ubuntu-devel :-)
<dholbach> <jdub> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuWorldWide
* Treenaks pokes his GPS
<Treenaks> get a fix!
<Lathiat> walk outside :)
<Treenaks> Lathiat: the antenna is already outside.. it worked already
<Lathiat> ah ok :)
<Lathiat> walk outside anyway
<Lathiat> just for fun
<Lathiat> :)
<Treenaks> Lathiat: but it's cold.. and windy
<Lathiat> heh
<herzi> Treenaks: that's a excuse, not a reason
<herzi> +n
<Treenaks> herzi: still.. I have a fix now.. so there's no need
<AstralJava> Why go out in the cold when you can be in with Ubuntu?
<AstralJava> Doesn't make any sense.
<Treenaks> AstralJava: especially the "march" calendar :P
<Lathiat> ah but you can be outside with the philosophy of ubuntu
<Lathiat> Treenaks: *G*
<Lathiat> HUMANITY
<AstralJava> Treenaks: Yeah. :)
<Lathiat> im waiting for april
<Lathiat> damnit
* Lathiat kicks jdub
<Lathiat> the installer is a bit braindead if you don't have an internet connection
<Lathiat> sits for far too long trying to test the network repostory
<Lathiat> youd think that since i have no default gateway and no NS configured itd time out pretty quick
<ajmitch_> one would hope so
<herzi> i LOVE sharpmusique
<ajmitch_> http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?lat=-45.8681&lon=170.5039&scale=5000&icon=x
<ajmitch_> looks close enough for me :)
<ajmitch_> morning bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<herve> hey! an encolpe!
<encolpe> Hello people
<bddebian> Hello encolpe
<dholbach> bbl
<jaldhar> dholbach: so I talked to mako yesterday.  Which docs do I need to read to learn about becoming a MOTU?
<dholbach> hey jaldhar
<ogra> jaldhar, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU is a good start....there are several subpages
<dholbach> we don't have so much docs around yet
<dholbach> lots of pioneer atmosphere :-)
<ogra> (getting involved, recruitment etc)
<jaldhar> ok I'll do that
<dholbach> the general approach is helping out, fixing packages, working together, becoming member (in the communitycouncil meeting), having a good gpg key, being approved as MOTU :-)
<dholbach> (in short) :-)
<tseng> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> tseng: pong
<jaldhar> btw, I noticed somewhere that Ubuntu like Debian won't distribute pine because of the license.  But UW distrubute their own .deb.  Couldn't that be included?
<schweeb> ping response time: 100ms
<tseng> dholbach: can you come to debian-mono and test for amd64 maybe?
<ogra> dholbach,  you forgot "fixing even more packages" before "having a good gpg key"
<dholbach> tseng: i think i'll leave soon -> beer with mvo, but will join
<dholbach> tseng: just a sec
<dholbach> ogra: right
<jaldhar> well as a DD I have excellent GPG credentials
<tseng> ogra: how about you?
<dholbach> jaldhar: i tried a version, which didnt compile
<tseng> ogra: wanna test mono on amd64?
<ogra> tseng, sure....where is the repo ?
<tseng> #debian-mono
<ogra> bah...pointing synaptic to IRC works ?
<tseng> yep
<jaldhar> dholbach: it is a little tricky but not impossible on arge atleast.  I maintain an unofficial package.
<tseng> brand new transport backend
<tseng> (he hasnt posted a link yet)
<ogra> hehe
<dholbach> jaldhar: if the license isnt TOO anal, we could have it in multiverse
<dholbach> i can't remember what the problem exactly was
<dholbach> but i tried to compile it 5 years ago on potato and it didnt work either ;-)
<ogra> dholbach, its a similar license to javas... wont work for multiverse i guess
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> well... i'm no expert
<ogra> (it forbids to distribute similar progs)
<jaldhar> dholbach: the problem is the license is badly worded.  They don't actually mind if people modify and redistribute but we have to go by what they have actually written.
<dholbach> jaldhar: it should be re-worded then :-)
<dholbach> ogra:  you will have to teach me how to do all that flashy gimp stuff one day
<ogra> yeah, convince upstream
<jaldhar> ogra: all they wanted was that people put an L to denote it is not an official UW version but it didn't turn out that way.
<ogra> dholbach, a personal BOF in .au ?
<dholbach> ogra: if we will have the time...
<dholbach> ogra: or a --dry-run on the plane :-)
<jaldhar> dholbach: I already had that conversation with UW years ago.  It's not going to happen :(
<ogra> hehe...dunno if i can that from the top of my head
<dholbach> jaldhar: :-/
<dholbach> ogra: i just want a piece of text to look flashy, *grmbl*
<dholbach> i didnt know OOo was stupid enough to ask me every 15 minutes for a "auto-save"... wow
<Lathiat> ahaha
<Lathiat> dholbach: those may be for real saves
<ogra> dholbach, Xtns->script fu-> logos
<Lathiat> dholbach: like it autosaves a backup, but remidns you every 15 minutes you might wan tot actualy save the file
<Lathiat> OO.o2 is pretty swanky
<Lathiat> gonna try ipress to write my slides
<Lathiat> gotta try getting my laptop to go with a projector too
<dholbach> ogra: all those stupid logos shrink the whole canvas *grmbl*
<ogra> dholbach, just put a layer in the background...
<dholbach> ah hm... well
<zyga> hello
<zyga> what is the procedure to request an upgrade of package in universe?
<zyga> I'm currently building lilipond 2.4.x because 2.2.x is not usable and 2.4.x is marked as stable
<dholbach> zyga: does debian have it?
<zyga> dholbach: ubuntu has it
<ogra> zyga, you can ask here, add it to the MOTUToSync page on the wiki....but it wont be possible before breezy is open....
<zyga> dholbach: it seeems debian has it too, wait
<dholbach> zyga: does debian have the new version?
<zyga> ogra: ah so universe is bound by the freeze too?
<ogra> zyga, sync means we can pull it from sid
* dholbach should be more previse
<ogra> zyga, sure
<zyga> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> universe "released" as well
<zyga> http://lilypond.org/web/install/#2.4
<zyga> ubuntu has 2.2.6
<dholbach> zyga: if debian has the new version, we can grab it from there (as long as somebody tested it on ubuntu before), else we'll have to package a new version
<zyga> dholbach: debian has a bit outdated version too, I think I'll wait for breezy and request it via wiki
<dholbach> zyga: we can't sync what is not packaged
<dholbach> zyga: so if YOU would provide us with a nice new source package, we could review and upload it :-)
<zyga> dholbach: I've never packaged anything before
<dholbach> zyga: that's where we all started :-)
<zyga> dholbach: after I finish my work here (I need to make some pretty pdf's with notes) I could try and learn
<dholbach> cool! :-)
<zyga> dholbach: notes have a deadline till tommorow :)
<zyga> okay thanks for the insight :)
<dholbach> anytime :-)
<zyga> I had some warnings about autoconf 2.59 being not compatible with g++ 3.x
<dholbach> i'm off - have a nice evening
<ogra> ciao dholbach
<dholbach> bye ogra
<d> Hi!
<d> Any chance of seeing the musepack decoder enter universe or multiverse anytime soon?
<d> Along with the beep media player and the xmms musepack plug-in?
<ogra> d, sure, but it will only be available in breezy
<ogra> which wont be usable for the next 6-8 weeks i guess
<d> aww! :( Whens the first release of Breezy? October?
<ogra> yop
<ogra> hoary is stable, so it will only see security updates
<d> what? I'll have to compile something? ;)
<ogra> nah, you have to help testing breezy ;)
<crimsun> d: I said I'll be maintaining those
<crimsun> you're welcome to join me if you wish
<d> no prob. Have I got to sign up, get a bugzilla account or something to report bugs in ubuntu? DVD playback is broke in multiverse Mplayer
<crimsun> please file bugs in malone (see topic)
<d> whats malone?
<ogra> d, our bugtracker
<trulux> anyone here knows well on povray?
<ogra> hmm, #povray or #blender probably if they exist
<trulux> ogra: yeah, #povray looks dead :(
<ogra> :-/
<ogra> sorry, its about 6 years ago i touched it last...
<trulux> I'm writing a paper for school, just writing a earth model
<trulux> and got
<trulux> Parse Error: No matching } in 'texture', undeclared identifier 'of' found instead
<trulux> based on an old work
<trulux> I needed to rewrite some things, halo is no more available on 3.5
<trulux> etc
<ogra> hmm
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> need to check fluxbox 0.1.14
<crimsun> err, 0.9.12
<AstralJava> Oh?
<crimsun> yeah, I'll try to maintain those, too
<AstralJava> Right. :)
<AstralJava> Did you go somewhere last night, I mean any of those release parties?
<crimsun> no, I graded exams and programming assignments
<crimsun> actually I should ask ikaro if he wants to maintain them, since he's upstream, heh
<crimsun> back later
<AstralJava> 'k.
<tseng> crimsun: ikaro is upstream fluxbox?
<tseng> afaik he just runs a themes site
<tseng> is breezy open yet???????????/
* schweeb senses desperation from tseng 
<tseng> i need a new libsqlite
<schweeb> rol
<ogra> tseng, as i said before.... after the backports are up ;)
* tseng cries
* tseng backports libsqlite
<schweeb> I imagine elmo took a bit of a vacation
<schweeb> so it could be a while :)
<ogra> schweeb, unlikely that elmo has one silent minute today...
<schweeb> heh
<ajmitch> ogra: I can't believe that you're saying the word! :)
<ogra> schweeb, the backbone for the archives was broken several times today
<ogra> ajmitch, its allowed in jokes ;)
<schweeb> ogra: ouch
<Mithrandir> tseng: it's "up", but you can't upload to it yet.
<tseng> Mithrandir: i was mostly joking
<tseng> but im ready to go :)
<Mithrandir> now I want sarge to release so I can release a new pkg-config I can upload to debian so I can sync it to Ubuntu.
<Mithrandir> :P
<Mithrandir> (Or I could just upload it to Ubuntu)
<schweeb> hah
<schweeb> Sarge... release?
<schweeb> impossible!
#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-21
<trulux> I got it!
<trulux> :)
<siretart> gnarf. did anyone succeeded to build javahl on amd64?
<siretart> never mind. (and my english gets worse the later the evening... :/)
<carthik> Hi all, could someone field a question about how I could improve 1 specific package in the Universe? I tried the wiki and am still groggy from it :)
<ogra> carthik, you start with setting up a pbuilder chroot: http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PbuilderHowto
<ogra> then download the source package, change it, build a testpackage in your pbuilder, test it, if it works, build a source package, sign it and give it to someone to upload...
<carthik> ogra, thank you, another project I work for has had some problem with the .deb, which is why I asked. I'll start from where you suggested.
<ogra> ...oh and make sure to have no warnings from lintian (the package checker) if the package is built...
<carthik> thank you. i will
<ogra> :)
<carthik> ogra, the page you referenced has a small typo, and is locked... "setup a chroot for build Ubuntu packages using pbuilder." (the first line) should be "building" not build. Sorry for nitpicking :)
<ogra> carthik, i'll tell it to dholbach, he'll change it for breezy anyway the next days...
<carthik> cool
<tseng> who is niall on irc
<tseng> niall sheridan
<HostingGeek> me
<HostingGeek> ooops
<tseng> ?
<HostingGeek> tseng: you can whois everyone i look at about 9 people that i thought maybe...
<HostingGeek> Warning: thoreauputic is an impostor (look at his whois)
<tseng> maybe he's not here.
<thoreauputic> HostingGeek: I am indeed an imposter -version me if you doubt it :)
<hsprang> good morning! :)
<ajmitch> hi hsprang
<hsprang> ajmitch, for you, good morning might not really fit  :)
<hsprang> ajmitch, so, good evening to you!
<AstralJava> It still applies to me, so I'll return the compliment. :)
* AstralJava rubs his sleepy eyes
<Usiu> ok https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstalacjaIKonfiguracjaGNUGadu2WUbuntu fixed
<herve> *yawn* hello!
<ogra> morning herve
<herve> morning, yes :-)
<ogra> *g*
<tseng> hi
<koke> hi all!
<tseng> hey dude.
<ogra> hey koke
<ogra> koke, youre not on the worldmap yet ?
<ogra> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuWorldWide
<koke> ogra: when I tried it was deleted :(
<ogra> argh
<koke> the wiki now is a mix between the old and new layout :)
<ogra> broswer cache  ?
<koke> ogra: not sure, the https pages look completely with old layout
<koke> the others have the same layout but new colors :)
<ogra> hmm, here i have the new layout everywhere
<herve> ctrl+shift+r to completely refresh
<koke> hehe, ubuntu.com looks new, ubuntulinux.org looks old :D
<ogra> koke, hah, now we know where you live :)
<koke> :D
<\sh> g'afternoon people :)
<ogra> yo \sh
<trulux> anyone knows why maths package does not show up accents?
<herve> re
<crimsun> re
<herve> trulux, you changed any font?
<trulux> herve: no, it doesn't work even with roman or any other font
<trulux> but it works outside the ams math mode
<trulux> so, everything has correct accents, looking good
<trulux> except when we put them inside the amsmath block
<herve> as I remember, the math mode is quite picky about fonts
<herve> since its symbols are glyphs
<encolpe> yep
<herve> I was about to ask you :-)
<herve> heya jbailey !
<jbailey> Heya herv!
<herve> well will Freenode accept utf8 nicks? :-p
<Mithrandir> heh, it won't accept accented chars, but norwegian ones are fine.
<trulux> herve: fixed :)
<trulux> Mithrandir: haha, \aacute
<trulux> so cute tag
<Mithrandir> trulux: that doesn't work here either, but if it works for you.. :)
<trulux> it does for me, yep
<trulux> it helps me to finish my physics work and start working out that gcc-3.4-hardened stuff
<trulux> ;)
<herve> so it's way important!
<herve> :-)
<trulux> a bit ;D
<trulux> btw
<trulux> I've missed a big bunch of updates: 367MB of upgrade!
<trulux> christ...
<herve> yes
<herve> and hoary is out too :-p
<trulux> I know
<trulux> (really)
<trulux> :D
<herve> ho so you don't have that much to catch up ;-)
<trulux> I was just too busy with school
<trulux> you can compare the amount of junk I use to say on holidays and when I've started school
<trulux> I could be scared if someone shows up a graph
<herve> and you're probably more serious than I was with school
<trulux> (March 2005) ^^^^^^^^\_____/\___ (April 2005)
<trulux> herve: oh, it's just that I'm planning to get out of it to join a special program, it cuts one year of school, so, I get in university one year before
<trulux> instead of waiting 2 more years of blatantly stupid, embarrassing, junk secondary/pre-university school
<herve> I think I get it
<trulux> hehe, in short, I'm putting special effort in school this trimester
<trulux> it's fun that I have done school-related work here for first time, they may get worried on the possibility of that fscking trulux getting the papers copied somewhere called "LaTeX"
<trulux> ;d
<trulux> "No, really, it's not that LaTeX you have used the past weekend. It's of my own home-brew."
<trulux> *grin*
<trulux> herve: btw, do you know how I could make a sun eclipse model with povray? I've b0rked my earth model
<trulux> :(
* trulux is a noob on povray
<trulux> herve: btw, did you have a look on the new libssp packages?
<herve> f... !
<dholbach> hey!
<crimsun> hey!
<dholbach> crimsun: how are you?
<crimsun> dholbach: not too bad, getting ready to grab some coffee and head back to work. Yourself?
<dholbach> crimsun: still tired, was out with mvo yesterday, celebrating hoary's release :-)
<dholbach> but i'm fine :-)
<crimsun> dholbach: ah, quite a few brews? :)
<dholbach> yes, wasn't really used to it anymore  :-))
<crimsun> ;)
<crimsun> ok, back in a bit
<dholbach> byeeeeeee
<schweeb> omg, dholbach's alive :)
<dholbach> schweeb: of course! :-)
<dholbach> hey schweeb :-)
<schweeb> whats up
* schweeb is just waking up
<schweeb> I want my breezy, so I can have more fun
<trulux> hey dholbach , woka!
<dholbach> schweeb: hahaha... have more breakage in the first place :-)
<trulux> crimsun: coffee, that makes me thinking... I need a cup of that!
<dholbach> the first days will be bumpy :-)
<ogra> the first month
<herve> heya dholbach !
<dholbach> hey herve!
<dholbach> so where do we go from here? "reset" our todo lists? ;-)
<herve> malone!
<dholbach> but malone won't give us a doesnt-built-with-gcc4-list
<dholbach> or didnt-make-python-transition :-)
<trulux> christ, what's happening who is building with gcc4?
* trulux feels confused
<schweeb> we might, trulux
<ogra> trulux, gcc4 will be the default for breezy
<schweeb> the gcc4 transition is going to be hell
<trulux> ogra: finally? ok
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> schweeb: will be fun! :-)
<trulux> ok, anyone knows a friendly gcc hacker who can help me with the last bits porting of SSP to gcc-4.0?
<schweeb> dholbach: yea, but I'll be useless
* schweeb isn't a developer
<herve> dholbach, the idea is to automatically file bugs with a common tag
<fabbione> hmm
<dholbach> herve: yes
<fabbione> i think the gcc-4 transition will be more smooth than you think
<fabbione> the real issue are the c++ libs
<dholbach> schweeb: we'll manage and you'll be of great help
<schweeb> heh
<fabbione> and apps that are written as shit -> drop them
<fabbione> schweeb: trust me, the transition it's easier than you think
<schweeb> as long as we're taking that radical approach, sweet :)
<fabbione> well for universe you can
<ogra> yay, fabbione is here
<fabbione> hey ogra
<ogra> hi :)
<dholbach> fabbione: how was the party?
<fabbione> i was just passing by on the fly
<schweeb> it would be ideal if we started breezy in the next week or so, since I'm taking a week's vacation soon :)
<fabbione> i need to go and cook dinner
<fabbione> dholbach: it was good
<fabbione> schweeb: i think we will open breezy dances pretty soon
<dholbach> fabbione: i urged mvo to get his car ready, but he didnt :-/
<schweeb> oh goody goody
<fabbione> but if it is not during this week, it will be after UDU mostlikely
<schweeb> ah
<schweeb> UDU is at the end of the month, right?
<dholbach> 24-30
<ogra> last week
<fabbione> afaik lamont and elmo will be working on rebuilding the archive with gcc-4.0
<fabbione> and see how bad it is the situation
<fabbione> but to do that
<fabbione> they need doko to upload another gcc-4 version
<fabbione> kinda complicate
<fabbione> but again
<schweeb> ah
<fabbione> don't worry too much
<fabbione> really
<schweeb> alright, off I go
<dholbach> i dont, it will be fun :-)
<dholbach> bye schweeb
<schweeb> gonna go watch Sin City at the theater
<fabbione> i am off too
<dholbach> bye fabbione
<ogra> ciao
<fabbione> cya tomorrow
<schweeb> speak of the devil
<herve> ho look behind you! it's night!
<ajmitch> morning all!
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> what's up?
<dholbach> http://blog.steve.org.uk/index.php/archives/2005/04/10/ubuntu/ <--- that was me :-)
* ajmitch waits for a web browser to thrash into memory ;)
* dholbach gives ajmitch a cookie
<dredg> dholbach: brainwashing the masses then?
<dholbach> dredg: we don't need that :-)
<dredg> :)
<ajmitch> bah, someone asking for documentation & examples for one of my debian packages
<ajmitch> nobody needs docs
<dholbach> just assume he wants to write those and write a charming mail back
<ajmitch> no, it's more that he didn't check 'info treecc' - the docs are already there ;)
<ajmitch> and the other doc on the website probably can't be included
<dholbach> smurfix and phurballphredd surely got their coordinates wrong :-)
<dholbach> i think i'll go to bed for now... bye
<ajmitch> bye dholbach !
<dholbach> byeeeeeeeeeeeee :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-22
<schweeb> urgh, looks like Branden won DPL
<crimsun> yep
<schweeb> hopefully he's a better DPL than I think he'll be
* schweeb cries
<crimsun> I don't think we'll have a problem with that :)
<zul> who got elected?  been living in a hole all weekend
<crimsun> Brandon Robinson
<schweeb> Branden
<crimsun> e
<zul> ah...the x guy?
<crimsun> yep
<schweeb> yea ;_;
<desrt> isn't DPL that thing that mjg59 was supposed to be?
<tseng> ....
<tseng> WTFOMGLOLBBQ
<schweeb> desrt: he was running for DPL, yes
<tseng> how can you elect branden
<desrt> i have no idea what DPL is, but i suspect the "d" means debian
<tseng> thats almost as bad as voting for kerry
<schweeb> debian project leader
<desrt> and the "pl" means "project leader" now that i think about it
* tseng hides
<schweeb> tseng: <3 tseng!
<tseng> <3 !
<zul> tseng: if gentoo had elections there would be some people i wouldnt elect but the point is moot..
<tseng> zul: meh, people in gentoo elected me
<tseng> whats that tell you
<zul> you would be one of the few i would elect
<desrt> what's the point of having elections if you never release anything?
<zul> flame wars of course
<desrt> right.
<tseng> thats a misinformed comment
<tseng> imo.
<desrt> i admittedly know very little about debian
<desrt> i installed it once and found out all the software was 2 years old
<desrt> then it went away
<tseng> thats another misinformed comment
<desrt> well.  it's an account of actual events.
<desrt> and i lived those events
<tseng> there are multiple branches
<desrt> well, i wasn't running sid
<tseng> you were running woody
<crimsun> the funny thing is, there are machines I _want_ Woody running on
<desrt> yes.  i think i was.
<desrt> you *need* to have a stable distribution with modern software in it, though
<schweeb> I don't even trust my servers to woody anymore
<desrt> linux moves pretty quickly.  2 years ago is relatively unusable compared to what's available today
<zul> brb
<tseng> they just keep coming
<crimsun> to be fair, though, I don't think there's a distro quite like Debian. I'll happily slap it on for a server and not think twice.
<schweeb> crimsun: yes
<desrt> i used debian as the basis for a thin client image a while ago.  it was the best distro for that.
<schweeb> I use sarge now though for servers
<desrt> it had like Xfree3 at the time (4 was out, but not xorg, i don't think) but who cares?  it worked nicely.
<desrt> and having a single-executable X server was sort of nice anyway
<crimsun> sure made debugging simpler
<desrt> and the entire dpkg/apt concept is really interesting and strange
<desrt> the fact that you can go between entire distributions by changing your apt sources and reinstalling some stuff is pretty cool
<desrt> i'm suprised that even works at all
<desrt> nevermind the fact that it works *well* from what i understand
<crimsun> well, if you're using Ubuntu, that's testament to how well it works ;)
<desrt> right.  but i installed ubuntu off of an ubuntu install cd
<desrt> i should hope that works properly :)
<desrt> i mean more if you have a debian system and want to move it to ubuntu
<crimsun> yep, it does work.
<crimsun> I migrated 20 machine from woody (or sarge or sid) to warty
<crimsun> machines
<desrt> generally, how do the debian folks feel about ubuntu?
<desrt> more or less a mixed bag?
<tseng> alot of them work for canonical :P
<tseng> some of them are bitterly opposed, the rest are cool with it
<crimsun> yeah, it's across the board
<crimsun> (as expected)
<desrt> i went in #debian on the day i installed ubuntu asking something about how to override package dependancies with dpkg
<desrt> i accidentally mentioned that i was running ubuntu -> kickban
<tseng> #debian isnt a warm fuzzy
<desrt> ya
<desrt> i learned that a bit later
<desrt> they didn't hate me because i use ubuntu.  they hated me because i'm a person :)
<tseng> they dont want basic user questions
<tseng> or any questions really
<tseng> meh.
<tseng> that last time i frequented there was when it was on OPN
<desrt> irc used to be a lot nicer
<schweeb> mwilson personifies all that is wrong with the debian community (or at least he used to)
<desrt> you could actually get help in help channels
<tseng> mwilson usually is such a douche it makes me ssmile
<tseng> he's funny
<desrt> and actually talk about project development in devel channels
<desrt> even this morning i commited the faux pas of using a devel channel for help :P
<desrt> (though i choose to blame crimsun)
<crimsun> hey now, I did migrate it to #ubuntu
<crimsun> :)
<tseng> i blame everyone
<tseng> time to sleep
<desrt> cha.
<crimsun> night tseng
<tseng> bye.
<desrt> so, i guess i should ask
<desrt> say i want to package up the latest abiword
<desrt> and have it in hoary
<desrt> can i do that here?
<crimsun> assuming you mean breezy, yeah
<desrt> ah.  afraid of that.
<crimsun> (nothing's going into hoary save security updates)
<crimsun> well, it's not as bad as you might think :P
<crimsun> breezy will probably open in ~2 weeks
<desrt> right
<desrt> but i'm not insane enough to install breezy on computers that aren't my own :)
<desrt> ok.. so as i understand it
<desrt> when breeze 'opens', a snapshot is taken of sid
<desrt> and ubuntu packages are added
<desrt> and anything not explicitly added/maintained by the ubuntu people remains frozen at the version it was at when sid was branched
<crimsun> more realistically, everything's synced/merged from current sid
<crimsun> that will affect mostly universe
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> but the end result is that new sid packages will get in
<crimsun> a "sync" is a straight pulling of Sources.gz
<crimsun> and a building on Ubuntu's buildds
<desrt> at that exact instant and no other time
<crimsun> nope, we can ask for syncs from sid at any time
<desrt> oh.  that's nice.
<desrt> on a package-by-package basis or the entire shot in one go at predetermined times?
<desrt> jeff was explaining this to me before... he said that the reason that abiword was so old was because it was version-frozen at the sid branch point
<crimsun> well, the "all sid" sync is done at the opening
<crimsun> from then on, "all sid" is fairly rare
<desrt> hmm
<crimsun> we ask for package syncs on a much more frequent basis
<crimsun> that's why community involvement is vital for universe and multiverse
<crimsun> there are something like a dozen of us universe maintainers
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> so if i'm lazy
<desrt> and i like abiword
<crimsun> only about half were actually given upload privileges by Hoary's timeframe
<desrt> then i can badger a master of the universe to pull in a more-up-to-date abiword?
<crimsun> well, we can't sync ourselves, but we ask our ftpmasters to sync for us
<crimsun> on the other hand, we can upload completely new packages that aren't in Sid
<crimsun> (they, too, have to be hand-approved by an ftpmaster just as they must be in Debian)
<desrt> strange.
<desrt> is there a freeze during the release cycle at which point new universe packages are disallowed?
<crimsun> nope
<desrt> huh
<crimsun> we can push new packages in right up until the release (which we did)
<desrt> so an up to date abiword could have made it into hoary if i was here a week or two ago?
<crimsun> "a week or two"? doubtful.
<crimsun> maybe one month ago.
<desrt> because you were too busy?
<crimsun> and you would have had to have done a heck of a lot of work to ensure it installs/upgrades/removes cleanly.
<desrt> or because the ftpmasters are a bit picky about what goes in toward the end
<crimsun> desrt: yeah, we were all extremely pressed for time.
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> ok
<desrt> starting to get an idea
<crimsun> desrt: about 7 people in charge of 15000 packages ... yeah ...
<desrt> and universe can contain stuff that's not even in debian...
<crimsun> correct.
<crimsun> (it does)
<desrt> so, multiverse is solely for the purpose of packages of questional legality?
<desrt> *questionable
<crimsun> license-wise and other, yes
<desrt> cool.
<crimsun> take a look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU
<desrt> i always thought universe was debian stuff and multiverse was stuff that debian refused to package
<crimsun> oh man, speaking of refusing, we're going to see apt-get.org in breezy...
<crimsun> I cringe at the idea, but it's going to happen, and we're going to make it work.
<dredg> it gives me the fear
<crimsun> it'll definitely be challenging
<desrt> apt-get.org = a bunch of 3rd party packages?
<crimsun> yep
<desrt> neat.
<crimsun> simultaneously neat and hair-ripping ;)
<desrt> neat for me
<desrt> stressful for you :)
<crimsun> you should consider joining MOTU if you'd like to help :)
<desrt> i have a problem
<desrt> i like to help with a lot of things
<desrt> so i commit to a lot of projects and have not enough time to contribute a proper amount of time to them all
<desrt> so i'm actively trying to not do that anymore :)
<crimsun> I encourage you to at least become a member
<desrt> right.  but if i become a member i feel bad when i hardly do any work
<crimsun> well, help out when you can.
<crimsun> there's no obligation
<schweeb> speaking of membership
<crimsun> of course it's kinda expected if you actually gain maintainership, which is a different step at this point
* schweeb checks for the next CC meeting
<crimsun> Wed 13 Apr 04:00 UTC Community Council
<desrt> well
<desrt> what does 'membership' mean?
<desrt> actually
<desrt> i'll just read some wiki :)
<schweeb> 0400 UTC = 1100 EST?
<desrt> DanielTChen (crimsun) audio and ALSA specialist
<crimsun> schweeb: yes. Or for me, since I'm in EDT, it's midnight.
<desrt> i wouldn't mind maintaining haskell
<crimsun> desrt: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewDevelopersAndMaintainers
<crimsun> the Members list is sadly outdated
<schweeb> ah, I take it you're in IN
<crimsun> schweeb: nope, NC.
<schweeb> hrm
<schweeb> maybe I'm in EDT now too
* schweeb can never remember
<crimsun> date will tell you :)
<crimsun> the switchover was last weekend
<schweeb> guess I'm EDT :)
<ajmitch_> hi
<schweeb> anyways, I'm up for membership at the next meetin
<crimsun> lo ajmitch_
<schweeb> evenin
<crimsun> schweeb: excellent!
<crimsun> must be afternoon for ajmitch_?
<schweeb> then, hopefully soon, I'll be MOTU
<schweeb> gotta start working on more packages for that though :)
<crimsun> schweeb: look forward to it :)
<desrt> crimsun; ya.  the wikipage says that i should be active if i'm a member :)
<schweeb> active can mean any number of things though
<crimsun> desrt: the onus is less than that if you were to be a maintainer ;)
<ajmitch_> yeah, afternoon here for me
<schweeb> participating in IRC, mailing lists, etc... is considered activity
<desrt> weird.
<ajmitch_> killing time before I go & do work in 15min at uni :)
<desrt> participating in IRC is considered, for me, avoiding other things that i should be doing :)
<crimsun> irc definitely counts
<desrt> crimsun; so what if i find myself a little niche to take care of?
<crimsun> desrt: then go for it :)
<desrt> i'm upstream for gnome, fd.o and haskell
<desrt> gnome and fd.o are well-represented in ubuntu already but haskell isn't so much
<crimsun> desrt: a couple or a few packages you'd have an active hand in is the best way to start
<desrt> thing is, debian already does a fairly decent job with haskell... i know the packager.  he's a nice guy :)
<crimsun> work with him
<desrt> the only real problem is latency
<crimsun> we try to maintain a very good and close relationship with our Debian maintainer/developer counterparts
<desrt> that's good policy
<crimsun> after all, the entire point is that changes flow freely and frequently between our two distros
<desrt> does ubuntu have a buildfarm?
<crimsun> oh yes.
<schweeb> yep
<crimsun> it's ver-ah nice-ah.
<desrt> so even though i don't have an amd64 box, i can still package amd64 binaries
<schweeb> couldn't survive without it
<schweeb> yep
<desrt> sweet
<crimsun> we do amd64, powerpc, and i386 officially, but there are also ia64 builds
<crimsun> at some point, I suspect sparc and hppa will appear
<desrt> oh man
<desrt> i almost forgot the best part about ubuntu
<desrt> sweet sweet vendor patches
<desrt> except for the ones that mess with nautilus
<ajmitch_> desrt: we upload source packages, and watch the buildlogs, so we don't need the machines ourselves :)
<desrt> my personal habit with ghc is that i tend to commit a bunch of changes right *after* the releases :)
<desrt> so should i ask my debian friend to show me the ropes about what's involved with creating a package?
<crimsun> check DeveloperResources
<crimsun> it has a bunch of stuff that's essential
<crimsun> Debian new maintainer's guide, for instance, though I'd policy and developer's manuals
<crimsun> I'd add^
<desrt> heh
<desrt> so i asked him
<desrt> he says that i should package other haskell-related stuff for debian :)
<crimsun> that'd be a great way to get involved :)
<desrt> ya.  honestly, though, i don't care very much about debian :)
<schweeb> you should
<schweeb> it's one of the most significant open source projects out there
<crimsun> I dislike the image of Debian and Ubuntu competing, though I willingly admit one's "better" for my desktop needs out of the box
<crimsun> things that help one help the other, and that's the way it should be
<desrt> right... except in terms of automatic package importing, the relationship is only one-way, right?
<schweeb> ubuntu is no more competing with debian than progeny and the like
<schweeb> desrt: it's meant to be quite 2 way
<desrt> i mean... in theory, shouldn't the masters of the universe not exist at all if the sharing was complete?
<desrt> we'd just all share debian's universe and be happy
<schweeb> no
<schweeb> MOTUs tame the Debian packages into working with Ubuntu's main
<desrt> hmm
<schweeb> since main often has newer versions, etc...
<desrt> but new packages, ideally, go into debian, right?
<schweeb> there's a reasonable number of packages that are in Ubuntu that aren't in Debian
<schweeb> especially mono related stuff
<schweeb> like, I packaged gsf-sharp, which Debian doesn't have
<desrt> i guess that's the crux of my question.  why aren't they in debian?
<schweeb> because no one's added them to Debian's NEW yet
<crimsun> desrt: yes, ideally. There aren't really that many of us MOTUs who are both Debian and Ubuntu maintainers/developers
<desrt> so wouldn't it be more efficient to add packages to debian instead of to ubuntu?
<schweeb> Ubuntu has a lower barrier to entry for packaging than Debian for the most part
<desrt> ok.  that makes a lot of sense, then.
<crimsun> Debian has a much stricter entry bar, yes.
<crimsun> <insert comment regarding apt-get.org>
<schweeb> we actively try to improve upon Ubuntu
<schweeb> if upstream Debian happens to accept our changes, great
<schweeb> we try to share our work as much as possible
<desrt> so... i should make packages for ubuntu and hope they get accepted upstream?
<schweeb> pretty much
<schweeb> if you want to communicate with some DDs and get yoru packages accepted to NEW, great
<desrt> nod.  i just heard the debian side of things
<desrt> the plan is to stick with ubuntu for now
<desrt> i like to be able to use the benifits of my work
<desrt> i'm not very altruistic about these things :)
<desrt> my debian friend convinced me of one thing - not to duplicate his work.  so i'm not going to package ghc.
<schweeb> basically separating our development from Debian's allows us a bit more freedom than if we had to wait for all of our development to hit upstream Debian
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> according to the debian guidelines, a library is a bad choice
<schweeb> eh, ignore that
<desrt> the good news is that it's a library that nothing will use :)
<schweeb> those aren't so much guidelines as recommendations
<desrt> As an example, I'll use a program called `gentoo', an X GTK+ file manager. Note that the program is already packaged, and has changed substantially from the version while this text was first written.
<desrt> *classic*
<desrt> ok.  the program i want to package depends on having gecko around
<desrt> but i can do --disable-mozilla, for a reduction in functionality
<crimsun> the mono stuff, or ...?
<desrt> libgtk2hs
<desrt> or 'gtk2hs' i should say
<desrt> ironically, my friend from school wrote the mozilla bindings for this package :)
<desrt> (and now i am disabling them)
<crimsun> oh, you'll probably want to build against mozilla-firefox-dev in that case
<desrt> oh.  interesting.
<desrt> ok.  let's see
<desrt> ya.  that's not good enough
<desrt> oh weird.  it might be time for a patch.
<desrt> ok.  patched configure.ac to look for firefox-gtkembed instead of mozilla-gtkembed
* desrt digs into 'control'
<desrt> so.. because i'm doing a library i have to deal with -dev
<crimsun> yep
<desrt> here's the thing... haskell isn't really normal
<crimsun> and the soname would go in the binary name
<crimsun> and all that $funstuff
<desrt> if you install this package, you're going to want the whole deal
<crimsun> in other words, it doesn't make sense to just install that lib?
<desrt> the standard foo/foo-dev division doesn't make much sense here
<thom> desrt: there's no haskell packaging policy?
<crimsun> I was just going to ask that, thom
<crimsun> but I don't think there is
<thom> desrt: (for debian, i mean)
<desrt> well.. going by c2hs, for example
<desrt> there is no c2hs-dev
<desrt> there's another thing too
<desrt> when a new ghc gets installed, gtk2hs needs to be reinstalled
<desrt> and similarly, when a new gtk2hs gets installed, all the programs built using it need to be rebuilt too (this isn't as important, since at the moment, everything is statically linked)
<desrt> it's sort of a similar situation to kernel modules, i guess
<desrt> it's not that the gtk2hs code has changed to match the new ghc version... it's more that any code linked together has to be compiled with exactly the same version of ghc
<desrt> k.  found some policy.
<desrt> i've just convinced myself that i can't do this
<desrt> there's a reason that gtk2hs isn't packaged by debian yet.  it's extremely difficult.
<crimsun> morning tritium
<crimsun> err, I guess it's still night
<tritium> hello crimsun :)
<crimsun> the clock on my live cd session is on UTC
<tritium> What's up?
<tritium> What are you doing on a LiveCD session?
<crimsun> not much, I've been amazingly productive today thanks to a Ubuntu 5.04 livcd
<crimsun> live cd
<tritium> Fantastic!  Away from your office?
<crimsun> well, the XP install was acting up, so I decided to let the administrators deal with that mess. I popped in a livecd and rebooted. ;)
<tritium> Sounds like a good plan.
<crimsun> yeah, it's very nice. Have you had a good weekend?
<tritium> Yes, quite good, thanks.  Yourself?
<crimsun> not too bad
<tritium> Glad to hear it.
<crimsun> I wonder what my uptime will be on this livecd session ;)
<tritium> Where is the computer you're running it on?
<crimsun> my office :)
<tritium> Ah, wow.  You're working late, particularly for a Sunday night.
* ajmitch returns
<crimsun> yeah, some last-minute grading, then I'm heading home
<crimsun> wb ajmitch_
<tritium> What course?
<crimsun> programming language concepts
<crimsun> we're about to wrap up OOP
<crimsun> finishing concurrency
<tritium> That's great.
* schweeb flags crimsun as the enemy
* schweeb is a student :)
<desrt> crimsun; you're a prof?
<crimsun> desrt: yep
<ajmitch> uh oh ;)
<crimsun> haha
<schweeb> like I said, the enemy ;)
<crimsun> I'll say this much: I didn't appreciate the amount of work my professors must have put in behind the scenes
<crimsun> this is hard work
<ajmitch> either that, or you just haven't found the most efficient way to procrastinate yet :)
<crimsun> I'm sure it's that, too :)
<Burgundavia> I want to run a package list through apt-cache to see if we have them
<crimsun> how is the list delimited?
<Burgundavia> the problme is that as soon as apt-cache fails to find one, it dies and takes the pipe with it
<Burgundavia> newlines
<crimsun> which apt-cache action are you using?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> just a sec
<desrt> crimsun; i'm going that way
<Burgundavia> this is a case of "I think I just figured it out"
<crimsun> desrt: excellent
<desrt> i TA right now.  aparantly i'm pretty good at it too.
<schweeb> Burgundavia: you could always download Packages.gz from the sources and parse that
<desrt> and it's as fun as hell
<ajmitch> desrt: TA?
<desrt> teaching assistant
<ajmitch> what does that entail?
<crimsun> I would have suggested for i in $(cat foo); do apt-cache policy "$i"; done
<desrt> teaching tutorials, labs, etc
<desrt> sometimes marking
<ajmitch> right
<Burgundavia> schweeb, that is what I am doing
* ajmitch is just a lab demonstrator, helps out with the labs 
<ajmitch> also a student for a few more weeks :)
<schweeb> Burgundavia: why do you need apt-cache then?
<ajmitch> hey dholbach!
<dholbach> hey
<Burgundavia> schweeb, ok, I am slightly confused
<tritium> Hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey tritium
<crimsun> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey crimsun... morning indeed :-)
<dholbach> 05:53 here
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> why are you up so early?
<dholbach> but i'm worried, i will have forgotten to pack something
<ajmitch> can't bear to be away from us? ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch: exactly :-)
<ajmitch> where are you going?
<crimsun> UdU?
<dholbach> ajmitch: from dortmund (my place) to trier (my parents), so i'll be able to drop my dog there
<crimsun> or is that not for a bit
<ajmitch> I thought UDU wasn't for another week for dholbach :)
<crimsun> ah
<ajmitch> crimsun: will you be at UDU?
<dholbach> i'll be leaving germany on the 16th
<desrt> crimsun; what school are you at?
<crimsun> desrt: NCA&TSU
<schweeb> Burgundavia: what exactly are you looking to do?  I was talking about you can download http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz and all the other Packages.gz's for the other branches and parse them for the packages you're looking for
<desrt> i've never heard of that :)
<crimsun> ajmitch: I can't, teaching commitment
<ajmitch> ah :(
<ajmitch> UDU is in the mid-semester break for me
<crimsun> ajmitch: ah, excellent
<ajmitch> yeah, it worked out very well
<schweeb> wish I could go to UDU
<ajmitch> nice & close, too
<crimsun> desrt: it's one of the larger historical black colleges and universities (HBCU)
<ajmitch> dholbach: seen the udu.wiki.ubuntu.com wiki?
<crimsun> desrt: I think only Texas A&M is larger
<Burgundavia> schweeb, I am parsing another repo for candidates for upload
<desrt> interesting.
<desrt> what is a black college, exactly?
<dholbach> ajmitch: yeah... i'll make some notes on it when i arrive at my parents place
<crimsun> a minority college, african-american-based
<desrt> hmm
<tritium> crimsun, we recruit there, I believe
<crimsun> though to say it's "black" is really a misnomer, since there's a fairly large south asian population, too
<ajmitch> dholbach: so many BOFs now...
<crimsun> tritium: wouldn't be surprised as a fellow engineering school
<dholbach> ajmitch: it will be a DAMN tough week
<ajmitch> yeah, not much chance for partying ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch: haha, we'll manage
<crimsun> haha, I'm sure there will be time for partying ;)
<schweeb> seeing as most of the people there are robots, and barely sleep, there will probably be partying till all hours of the night :p
<dholbach> all we need to do it persuade sabdfl into a global MOTU boot camp and we're set :-)
<tritium> My sister got me a ticket to the U2 concert in Tempe next week.  I'll be leaving for Arizona Wed.
<dholbach> WOW
<ajmitch> dholbach: a bootcamp would be good :)
<dholbach> :-)
<crimsun> oh dear.  23:55 < coreymon77> and where can i find how to add the unstable backports?
<schweeb> haha
* ajmitch had access to a ticket for the apple WWDC in SF in june - but I had to pay for flights & accomodation
<dholbach> users make me cry some times
<schweeb> it's been out 3 days!
<ajmitch> crimsun: bad word!
<schweeb> jebus
<crimsun> it was only a matter of time, really :/
<dholbach> so what did i forget to pack?
<ajmitch> backports! ;)
* ajmitch hides from dholbach 
<schweeb> dholbach: where you goin?
<ajmitch> your passport?
* dholbach takes a leaf out of fabbione's book and starts larting ajmitch across the place
<dholbach> schweeb: first ogra, then my parents place, then i'll visit an ex-girlfriend, then off to UDU
<ajmitch> then make sure you have passport, visa if needed for UDU
<ajmitch> everything else is secondary
<schweeb> ex-girlfriend, eh? you dirty rascal you
<ajmitch> oh, and a laptop if you have one (with AC adaptor)
<dholbach> schweeb: HAHAHAHAHA! :-)
<dholbach> ajmitch: need to get my sister's one, will burn my home-directory now
<ajmitch> gpg key!
<dholbach> ajmitch: yes!
<schweeb> dholbach: :D
* ajmitch has his laptop & wireless card primed & ready to go for UDU
<schweeb> don't forget blank CDs
<schweeb> I always end up needing blank CDs for one reason or another
<ajmitch> you can pick those up easily enough
<dholbach> schweeb: for my ex-girlfriend? :-)
* ajmitch doesn't have a cd burner in the laptop, so blank cds aren't as necessary
* dholbach pipes innocently
<schweeb> dholbach: well, if you take some "pictures" you gotta back em up :)
<dholbach> schweeb: you're so funny :-)
<schweeb> of course I am
<ajmitch> I should hunt down mpt - it seems that he might be in dunedin as well
<schweeb> dunedin?
<ajmitch> this city, where I live :)
<schweeb> ah :)
* schweeb should trave to .de and drink some beers with dholbach and ogra
<dholbach> schweeb: that'd be lovely :-)
<schweeb> are we gonna continue using bugzilla? or are we switching to malone entirely?
<dholbach> malone, at some stage
<schweeb> whereabouts in germany are you, dholbach?
<dholbach> schweeb: dortmund
<dholbach> schweeb: 10km from mvo
<dholbach> did you spot it on the map?
<schweeb> I'm lookin now
<schweeb> there we go
<ajmitch> malone is looking fairly quiet
* ajmitch wishes the 'view distro bugs' page had dates on it
<schweeb> poor lamont, all alone in the central US
<schweeb> hehe
<schweeb> hrm, anyone know volvoguy?  he's in MI too
* ajmitch is all alone at the bottom end of NZ
<ajmitch> at least according to that, I'm the southern-most Ubuntu person :)
* dholbach is barely visible
<dholbach> smurfix lives close to atlantis :-)
<schweeb> lol
<dholbach> and phurballphredd somehow got the coordinates wrong, he's in mongolia instead of indianapolis :-)
<crimsun> which map is this?
<ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/random/UbuntuWorldWideHuge.jpg
<schweeb> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/random/UbuntuWorldWideHuge.jpg
<dholbach> wiki/UbuntuWorldWide
<schweeb> dholbach: well, mine shows up clearly still :P
<crimsun> great, thanks
<ajmitch> schweeb: as does mine, sadly
<schweeb> ajmitch: that's cause you live in LoTR land :p
<dholbach> europe is REALLY packed
<ajmitch> there is that
<dholbach> we need another map for that
<schweeb> think jdub's talkin about doing some zoomed in maps
<dholbach> how could i else find mates for the next release party?
<ajmitch> nah, we need this expanded out lots, and printed out for UDU ;)
<dholbach> sounds like a tapestry
<dholbach> <- shower
<crimsun> cool, just added coords
<tritium> Good night, guys.
<tritium> See you tomorrow.
* dholbach wonders where North Carolina is
<schweeb> dholbach: east coast, about the middle
<Burgundavia> one of the original 13 states
<dholbach> ahh, ok
<dholbach> wonder what branden robinson will do to debian's situation now
<schweeb> that's a very good question
<schweeb> I'm pretty concerned, I've not been a big fan of his
<schweeb> but I hope for the best
<dholbach> maybe he's one of those who /can/ make major changes
<crimsun> 'night all
<dholbach> sleep tight, crimsun
<Burgundavia> dholbach, I grepped that repo I mentioned. It seems to be a straight build of Debian sid with one exception.
<dholbach> Burgundavia: then we should talk to the maintainer
<Burgundavia> dholbach, I have built that program (glest) in my pbuilder and it builds and installs
<dholbach> i think we should now go the -> MOTUNewPackages way
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I will add it
<Burgundavia> done
<schweeb> man, this womble guy is hostile.
<Gagatan> moin
<schweeb> night folks
<dholbach> bye schweeb
<dholbach> hi Gagatan
<dholbach> i'm off, bye
<womble> Got a package-without-.desktop-file: conglomerate
<womble> Do I just drop it in the wiki page somewhere?
<Burgundavia> there is a page already listing everything in uni/multi not having a .desktop file
<Burgundavia> www.ubuntu.com/wiki/UniverseWithoutDesktopFile
<Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile
<womble> Burgundavia: And yet, I don't see conglomerate on there.  Which is why I want to add it.  But, since there doesn't appear to be any "manually added" entries there already, I'd like to get the opinion of those who have to read it as to the best way to add it.
<crimsun> womble: add it and file on malone
<womble> crimsun: Why both places?
<crimsun> womble: because malone is our bug tracking tool
<womble> crimsun: Yeah, as in "Bugsy Malone".  Do I file against the package in malone and then duplicate that info in the wiki as a package to be fixed?
<crimsun> womble: sure.
* womble wonders why there's both a BTS to track these and a wiki as well.
<crimsun> womble: because prior to Malone, we had no official bug tracker
<crimsun> womble: so it was easiest to stuff things onto a wiki
<womble> And you're in a dual-operation transition phase currently?
<crimsun> womble: and in the last months leading down to Hoary's release, we were all massively editing the wiki pages to keep our changes current
<crimsun> womble: essentially.
<Amaranth> heh, using a wiki as a BTS hurts
<womble> OK then.  Now I understand.
<crimsun> we can't use bugzilla.u.c for universe/multiverse
<crimsun> malone wasn't ready then
<Amaranth> it really hurts when the wiki looses two days of changes :/
<Amaranth> err, loses
<womble> Will the account I create for the wiki work on malone and vice versa?
<crimsun> womble: absolutely.
<womble> phew
<d3vic3> morning
* desrt goes to bed while it's still am
<\sh> grmpf...can't login to ubuntulinux website...
<\sh> the data is correct...but I can't login
<\sh> and resetting passwords is also not working :(
<ajmitch> it's done this before..
<\sh> scrap
<\sh> need to change something on MOTUNewPackages
<\sh> hell damned
* dredg is wondering if this week would be a good week for a motu meeting, just to get an idea of where we are and where we're going before breezy kicks off?
<ajmitch> we'll have a good MOTU discussion session at UDU with the rest of the people, but I think a meeting at sometime could be good
<siretart> hi
<Treenaks> MOTU meeting? I propose Amsterdam!
<Treenaks> [/late] 
<siretart> does anyone have a good pointer why amd64 binaries usually needs to be compiled with "-fPIC"?
<dredg> Treenaks: feh. i propose dublin.
<thom> siretart: because you can't have non-fpic shared objects on amd64
<Treenaks> dredg: do they have bandwidth there then?
<siretart> thom: why isn't -fPIC default in gcc on amd64 then?
<dredg> maybe...
<siretart> I try to understand it
<thom> siretart: you might be building staticly
<siretart> when to use -fPIC and when not? does it harm on i386/ppc?
<siretart> ah
<siretart> hm
<thom> debian policy says you should use PIC everywhere
<thom> (for shared objects)
<siretart> and I assume it doesn't make any difference on i386, yes?
<siretart> anyway, thanks for explanation
<lunatik> hi there, is there a plan to add e17 to ubuntu please ?
<Treenaks> lunatik: has it been released then?
<Treenaks> (and: do you have sane packages for us?)
<lunatik> no released but compilation and usage is ok for me
<lunatik> no package no
<trulux> heya
<sabdfl> hello-motu!
<sabdfl> well done on getting universe into shape for hoary, guys
<sabdfl> i've had several people say "wow"
<dredg> morning sabdfl
<Treenaks> hi sabdfl
<dredg> sabdfl: personally, i think you could probably s/guys/dholbach/ for most of it :)
<Treenaks> dredg: and d3vic3 for the python stuff
<lunatik> but I can do packages for it
<dredg> Treenaks: definitely
* dredg starts his screaming-dholbach-fanboy-shring-site
<dredg> shrine*
<ctd> hullo everyone - does anyone know why mplayer-g4 doesn't actually install mplayer?
<Treenaks> dredg: with lots of <blink> and <marquee> and clashing colors?
<Riddell> lunatik: I'm sure packages would be most welcome.  do you know if there are any made for debian (official or somewhere on apt-get.org)?
<dredg> Treenaks: hell yes
<dredg> Treenaks: and a great big "OMG!!!!11111" at the top of the page
<lunatik> Riddell: I saw .deb in forum and blogs for e17, but the installation process like hard
<lunatik> Riddell: .deb exists shure
<d3vic3> :)
<Treenaks> lunatik: but those debs should also interact nicely with the e16 ones
<Treenaks> the ones I've seen don't
<lunatik> the one I've seen was places on different repositories
<lunatik> dont move
<lunatik> http://thomas.walraet.net/blog/index.php/2005/01/22/22-enlightenment-e17-sous-ubuntu-warty <= if you read french
<lunatik> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=20216 <= for english version in forum :)
<lunatik> I think the big deal is to make e17 configured as good with nautilus and a good desktop configuration
<dholbach> hellooooooooo
<d3vic3> O.O
<tritium> Hi ogra
<ogra> tritium, that was in fact dholbach ;)
<ogra> hi
<tritium> Well, hello to dholback also :)
* ogra knew he shouldnt give his laptop out of his hands
<Mithrandir> hi both of you
<tritium> Are you guys in the same place right now?
<ogra> yup
<fabbione> hi guys
<tritium> hi fabbione
<Mithrandir> this is fun.  The new ia32-libs won't ship with just one gcc, nor just two, it'll actually ship _three_ gcc sources.
<trulux> Mithrandir: a couple of gcc sources?
<trulux> UHH
<Mithrandir> trulux: 2.95, 3.0 and 3.3
<thom> _2_.95? why OGGE?
<trulux> Mithrandir: Christ... 2.95, kinda weird
<trulux> W E I R D
<Mithrandir> for libstdc++2.9-glibc2.9
<Mithrandir> or whatever it's called
<fabbione> you kidding right?
<Mithrandir> no
* fabbione sighs
<Mithrandir> this is for debian, but we'll just sync it.
<Amaranth> ia32-libs?
<Amaranth> for running 32-bit apps on amd64?
<Mithrandir> Amaranth: probably one of the most evil packages you'll ever know.  Stay away from it.
<Amaranth> heh
<Mithrandir> yay for libstdc++: four different versions shipped.
<Amaranth> 1) All my software is open-source and can run on 64-bit and 2) I don't even have an amd64
<Mithrandir> (2.10, 2.9 3.0 and 5)
<Mithrandir> elmo will so hate me.
<Mithrandir> hmm, now I need an ia64 which is running Debian.
<Mithrandir> :P
<Mithrandir> heh, the source package will grow from 16MB to about 250MB.
<thom> Mithrandir: dear god
<Mithrandir> thom: I'm trying to make people understand why we want multiarch. :)
<Treenaks> we do?
<Mithrandir> yes. :)
<Mithrandir> oh, fun.  The Ubuntu package should probably ship xorg instead of xfree in the source package.
* Mithrandir sighs
<\sh> breezy is open?
<thom> not yet
<doko> Mithrandir: you are soure about 2.95? that's egcs-1.1 :-)
<Mithrandir> doko: ok, four versions of gcc, I forgot about egcs 1.1
<doko> and be prepared to put glibc-2.1 in there as well ;-)
<Treenaks> oh while you're at it, why not libc5
<doko> Treenaks: it's not _really_ needed ...
<Mithrandir> doko: nah, glibc should be backwards compatible, shouldn't it?
<thom> can we have some a.out love, too?
<Mithrandir> thom: sure.
<thom> because just elf is really dull
<doko> the package is called libstdc++2.9-glibc2.1 ...
<doko> thom: :)
<Mithrandir> thom: or, no I don't think we can.  The kernel doesn't support them.
<Mithrandir> doko: yes, but that means "built against glibc2.1", it's part of the egcs sources.
<jbailey> Mithrandir: glibc can generally be expected to be backwards compatible.
<doko> Mithrandir: build xen first ...
<Mithrandir> doko: not funny.
<Mithrandir> :P
<jbailey> Mithrandir: The major difference si that from 2.2 to 2.3, all of the internal symbols were hidden, so anything compiled against those suddenly broke.
<Mithrandir> ah, ok
<Treenaks> jbailey: which is a good thing though
<Treenaks> jbailey: (in the end)
<jbailey> Mithrandir: The exception there was that drow hacked it so that extern int errno; would still work - But it fails as soon as you move to nptl.
<Mithrandir> jbailey: you make me cry.
<jbailey> Mithrandir: No, incompetant C programmers should make you cry.
<Mithrandir> jbailey: that too.
<jbailey> Play thou not with library internals =(
<doko> Mithrandir: there are some hundred bug reports in the archives, and AFAIR we fixed many of them already for hoary
<Mithrandir> jbailey: I'm just happy I'm at the university now, so I get about 2.5MByte/sec to my local mirror
<jbailey> Mithrandir: Bite me.
<jbailey> ;)
<atmaniak> hi
<Mithrandir> I'm going to build-depend on lsb so we can DTRT for ubuntu and debian both, just because I can.
<atmaniak> is there a solution to have a recent version of XFCE in hoiary ?
* dredg will soon have a 100M link to an irish ubuntu mirror
<dredg> soon to be ie.archive i hope
<dredg> atmaniak: Version: 4.2.1.1-2ubuntu2 isn't recent enough?
<atmaniak> dredg, oups, ?? universe ?
<dredg> yes
<atmaniak> ok, thx
<atmaniak> dredg, is there any iso live kubuntu using xfce ?
<dredg> er, not exactly kubuntu then is it?
<dredg> xfce4 is in universe, not in main
<bddebian> Hey folks
<lunatik> I've got a maintaner for e17 in ubuntu :)
<GheRivero> res
* Amaranth heads for bed
<Usiu> Hi, Do you know the problem ?? [gnome-bluetooth]  Ubuntu Linux (Send To: Menu Function)   Patrick Steiner
<Usiu> How to fix it ?
<Usiu> http://lists.gnomehack.com/pipermail/gnome-bluetooth/2005-March/000818.html
<herve> houba!
<bddebian> houba?
<herve> nevermind :-)
<bddebian> :-)
<herve> bddebian, http://www.marsupilami.com/
<bddebian> Heya Boilermaker!
<tritium> bddebian, hey there :)
<tritium> I think I prefer "Fightin' Irish" to Boilermaker ;)
<bddebian> tritium: Traitor!! :-)
<bddebian> herve: No habla :-)
<tritium> bddebian, undergraduate ties are just much stronger ;)
<herve> bddebian, just if you knew the character under another name
<bddebian> Ahhh
<bddebian> Ren and Stimpy? :-)
<bddebian> j/k
<hsprang> hi!
<herve> hi
<bddebian> Hello hsprang
<tritium> bddebian, so what's up?
<bddebian> tritium: "working" :-(  You?
<tritium> bddebian, same
<bddebian> tritium: Are you working on Masters or PhD?
<tritium> bddebian, PhD
<bddebian> What school?
<bddebian> err curriculum
<tritium> bddebian, what do you mean?  I'm in Electrical & Computer Engineering.  That what you mean?
<bddebian> Ahh
<bddebian> You don't happen to know a Brian Pearson do you?
<tritium> bddebian, doesn't ring a bell, but I'll look him up.
<bddebian> tritium: Well it was long ago.  He was an EE student I think and was my boss at the Krannert building when I was doing tech support :-)
<tritium> bddebian, I don't know any of the undergrads...
<bddebian> tritium: D00d, I'm old.  This was like 15 years ago.. :-)
<tritium> bddebian, I haven't been her that long, dude!
<tritium> I was here for 1 year to get my MS in 98-99, and I've only been here for PhD since Aug `02.
<bddebian> Ahh
<bddebian> I was there in like 88-89.. ;-P
<tritium> Ah, the year ND won the national championship ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<tritium> I'll be leaving in August for good - can't wait!
<bddebian> What, West Lafayette not exciting enough for you?? ;-)
<tritium> I much prefer the climate of New Mexico :)
<tritium> And I miss the chile...
<bddebian> Bah, too damn hot there :-)
<tritium> nah, it's a dry heat ;)
<bddebian> Shit, I lived in California and went to AZ to the river often.  Don't tell me about "dry heat"  It's still fucking hot!! ;-)
<tritium> heh, but it beats humidity any day
<bddebian> This is true
<bddebian> Although there is nothing quite like stepping out of the shower and NEVER drying off.. ;-P
<tritium> bddebian, you're in MD, did you say?
<bddebian> No, Philly
<tritium> Oh, that's right.
<tritium> I'll be back...
<herve> hmm... cryptic
<pkern> ogra: May I message you?
<herve> didn't you just? :-)
<pkern> No.
<pkern> Not really ;)
<herve> haaa... you want to flood him :-p
<pkern> lol (:
<pkern> Hm is there a DFSG-equivalent for Ubuntu?
<herve> DFSG :-)
<pkern> Ok, the License Policy ;)
<herve> hi doko
<pkern> What really caught me when searching for it was the spelling. ``licence'' instead of ``license'' |:
<herve> the other way round for me
<herve> licence is the French spelling, for instance
<Treenaks> incense!
<herve> if you say so :-p
<pkern> Treenaks: May I message you privately instead of ogra who is away? ;)
<Treenaks> pkern: about what?
<pkern> Treenaks: MOTU
<Treenaks> keeping it on the channel might be nicer :)
<Treenaks> maybe?
<herve> well, it's #motu here
<herve> but can you be more specific, pkern
<herve> come on, don't be shy :-)
<pkern> Question No. 1: Are packages flowing directly from Debian into the universe?
<herve> not really
<pkern> But otherwise work would be duplicated?
<herve> consider packages going into main, at first :-)
<herve> and we have altered some, so the flow cannot always be automated
<pkern> Yeah, sure. I know that it is sometimes necessary to patch some.
<pkern> Well, it's like this. Some guy of the local Linux User Group ordered some Ubuntu CDs to my home to distribute them.
<pkern> I was impressed when I tried it.
<pkern> Now I wanted to contribute some time to Ubuntu. As I am a Debian Developer I am quite used to Packaging.
<herve> sure you're welcome
<pkern> Yeah, but how to get started exactly? Packaging stuff for Ubuntu and looking for a mentor for each one of them again like in Debian? ;)
<herve> if you're a dd
<herve> I think you can easily get upload rights
<herve> but we're having some rest for now ;-)
<pkern> (:
<herve> hoary just released and breezy is not opened next
<herve> s/next/yet
<ajmitch> once breezy is reopened there'll be a mad period of automagic syncing with debian
<pkern> Well, look at Debian sarge. *cough*
<pkern> *g*
<herve> ajmitch, but it can't be automated for packages marked ubuntuN ?
<pkern> Well, it is not documented, that's why I wanted to ask. (:
<herve> that's what I was about to say
<herve> I don't really know how the motu will work now
<herve> as for me, I'll concentrate on python/zope packages
<herve> which were almost all altered :-] 
<ajmitch> herve: the merge-o-matic hsa some special rules for handling those syncs - I don't know how it will work
<pkern> herve: In theory you could record a diff between the ubuntu version and the Debian version it was build upon and apply this to the new one, after a review ;)
<ajmitch> pkern: there are a whole bunch of debdiffs sitting somewhere for that purpose :)
<herve> ajmitch, unapply, update, and reapply changes? I doubt it
<ajmitch> you  may have seen the recent discussions on the debian lists about debian & ubuntu
<pkern> (=
<Mithrandir> pkern: that's basically what mom does.
<herve> I easily get bored of tro^Wendless discussions on debian-devel :-)
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: cleaning up after the maintainers? :P
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: no, finding the ubuntu diff and applying that to the new debian package.
<herve> I already know packages where it would have been a mess
<Mithrandir> pkern: take a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/
<ajmitch> ah, there they are
<herve> sip-qt3 and sip4-qt3 DD made the same job as us
<pkern> Mithrandir: Really nice, thank you.
<herve> wow! scott is really productive! :-p
<motaboy> Hi all!
<crimsun> 'lo
<herve> hi motaboy
<herve> night all!
<tritium> ogra, you said dholbach is with you?  Are you already "down under" for the conference?
<ajmitch_> tritium: they're both in .de, iirc
<tritium> ajmitch, oh, is that right?  I see...
<JanC> the xbel-utils package doesn't install correctly in hoary
<JanC> (post-install script tries to use the wrong python version)
<JanC> so yesterday I made a fixed package for myself (first time I used pbuilder ;) )
<JanC> xbel-utils is built from the python-xml source package BTW
<JanC> now the big question is: "what should I do with it"?  :-)
<koke> hi motus!!
<siretart> hi koke :)
<ajmitch_> morning koke
<koke> ajmitch: morning, but here it's 23:36 :)
<koke> do you know how to login on the UDU wiki??
<ajmitch_> nope, I haven't done so yet
<koke> I wanted to add myself to the Attendees page!!! :D
<tseng> koke: just click Login at the top
<tseng> on the front page
<koke> ohh, I must be blind :)
<koke> what a small font!
<tseng> its next to search
<tseng> yeah i had trouble with it
<tseng> switch your theme to rightsidebar
<tseng> its easier to use imo
<tseng> (i run moin at work also)
<koke> tseng: it's quite nicer, thanks
<tseng> np dude
<tseng> should be default
#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-23
<doko> hmm, dholbach not here?
<tseng> nope
<tseng> he finally passed out from the mad committe spree during hoary
<tseng> and will sleep for the next week
<doko> ok, that's better anyway
<tseng> im joking of course
<koke> maybe he is fixing another whole distro while breezy archive is set ;)
<ajmitch_> dholbach was off travelling..
<ajmitch_> he's probably having withdrawal symptoms
<doko> koke, in the meantime you may want to start with http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCxxTransition
<doko> ;)
<ajmitch_> doko: but we don't know when the auotsyncs will start again..
<ajmitch_> s/auot/auto/
<ajmitch_> the first few weeks of breezy will be a fun ride
<koke> err, but now there are no uploads, IIRC
<ajmitch_> yep
<koke> hoary is frozen, and there's no breezy atm, am I ok?
<doko> sure, and before that happens, we should focus on main first.
<ajmitch_> once breezy opens, we've all got to compete with dholbach for number of uploads ;)
<koke> hehe
<koke> ajmitch: first I'll need to be able to upload
<ajmitch_> doko: so gcc-4.0 is going to be default for breezy?
<doko> I wouldn't be surprised if yes
<koke> I guess I'll be at UDU without my key on the ring
* ajmitch_ hopes sarge releases soon so there isn't too much distance between breezy & etch
<ajmitch_> koke: then you can harass elmo in person ;)
<ajmitch_> and we can sign your key
<koke> but then, I'll put my hand on elmo's shoulder and I'll say, "dude, I've just traveled half of the planet to see my key on the ring, would you do that for me?"
<koke> :D
<ajmitch_> haha
* ajmitch_ wants to get back to zope stuff, uni seems to have eased up a little for now
<ajmitch_> there looks to be a good number of people going to UDU now
<koke> err, how was the UniverseCXXTransition page generated?!?
<siretart> how to check in pyhton if a strings starts with '__'?
<koke> I'm wondering why debian-policy package is on that list :P
<koke> siretart: IIRC , my_string.startswith("__")
<koke> :D
<JanC> that's what I thought too  :)
<koke> In [2] : s.startswith("--")
<koke> Out[2] : True
<koke> s was "--ab"
<siretart> koke: woah! thanks. pyhthon's impressing me more and more :)
<koke> hehe
<ajmitch_> koke: looks like a grep for 3.4 in bugs :)
<koke> I see :D
<ajmitch_> yeah, python is a nice language
<schweeb> w00t. I got a new job.
<JanC> nice
<JanC> ( I hope ;) )
<ajmitch_> congrats, schweeb
<schweeb> I'm very excited
<koke> that's great :D
<schweeb> too bad I'm not of legal drinking age, I'd be at the bar half ini the bag now
<ajmitch_> schweeb: how old are you?
<schweeb> 20
<schweeb> be 21 on May 22
<ajmitch_> iirc the legal drinking age is 18 in .au, if you're going to UDU ;)
<schweeb> I'm not ;_;
<schweeb> what days is UDU?  I'll probably be starting during it... I start April 29
<ajmitch_> april 25-30
<koke> ajmitch: I hope that
<koke> I'm 21
<koke> hmmm, that's ok everywhere :D forget it
<schweeb> I think the US is pretty much the only place where the age is 21... most everywhere else it's either if you're taller than the bar, if you're 16, if you're 18, or if you're 19 (in Canada)
<jbailey> schweeb: 18 or 19 in Canada, depend son the province.
<jbailey> schweeb: It practice about 30% of the population of Canada can drink at 18. =)
<JanC> drinking age is 16 in Belgium for beer & wine, 18 for things like whisky
<jbailey> Strange to differentiate like that.  I haven't met many 16 years olds who could stomach whiskey. =)
<JanC> and when I was in the US when I was 19, we always found places that would sell us beer  :P
<JanC> (well, beer, more like dishwashing water ;)
<koke> anyway I'm already 21 and I keep drinking wine every weekend :D
* koke sleep()
<koke> bye
* tseng clears out his hoary-changes imap dir
<JanC> hm, the new way to sell your hosting services: http://www.realroot.com/  :P
<ajmitch> doko: should we be putting some of these lists into malone, since we're going to be using it heavily for breezy (I hope)?
<ajmitch_> hi ogra
<HostingGeek> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/TimMorris
<HostingGeek> Does anyone know who that guy is on IRC?
<crimsun> I think it's high time we pushed monotone into universe.
<crimsun> perhaps even main.
<crimsun> for now, universe
<spacey> whats special about monotone?
<Burgundavia> linux likes it
<Burgundavia> s/linux/linus
<spacey> Linus Torvalds began working on an interim solution called "git" in the absence of BitKeeper
<spacey> says kerneltrap.org
<Burgundavia> http://lwn.net/Articles/130681/
<crimsun> well, I just noticed that whole bk debacle (yes, I live under a rock)
<Burgundavia> see the footnote
<crimsun> and I noticed I have several monotone repos in ~
<crimsun> (a python mp3 player I wrote, a branch of alsaplayer with wxwidgets ui, and my /etc as of mid last year)
* crimsun updates pbuilder and has at it
<JanC> heh, canonical is working on bazaar-ng to replace bitkeeper  ;-)
<crimsun> sounds good to me :)
<crimsun> it's used for the ubuntu kernels among many other things
<Burgundavia> a bitkeeper killer is the description I have heard
<JanC> bazaar-ng is only used for bazaar-ng at the moment
<JanC> AFAIK
<JanC> bazaar-ng != bazaar
<crimsun> JanC: good point.
<Burgundavia> when does breezy open. I need more crack of the day
<JanC> the bazaar-ng developer said he wil have something more generally useable in about 3 months
<HostingGeek> when will the merge be start/finished with debian sid?
<JanC> HostingGeek  : you want his free beer ?
<JanC> ;-)
<HostingGeek> JanC: YES!
<JanC> sorry, don't know the guy
<JanC> hm, there is at least one Australian "Tim" on #ubuntu
<JanC> (use /who #ubuntu )
<HostingGeek> where is koke?
<HostingGeek> I want to teach him howto login to udu
<HostingGeek> poor guy had to add it to his blog...
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> it appears 0.18 may make it into Debian quite soon
<crimsun> (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=208847)
* ajmitch returns
<ajmitch> hi all
<crimsun> 'lo ajmitch
<HostingGeek> when will the merge be start/finished with debian sid??????
<HostingGeek> whats the diffrence in between the ubuntu kernel and the debian kernel?
<ajmitch> grab it & take a look
<HostingGeek> (i don't have anywhere else to ask)
<HostingGeek> i am not that 1337
<JanC> woah, another Ubuntu-Debian flame thread on /.   :P
<JanC> they're going to do this every day or what?
<spacey> what do they care that ubuntu packages don't work anyway :p arent we taking the package from debian in the first place
<schweeb> schweeb = drunk
<schweeb> I love ghetto bars.
<jaldhar> spacey: if there must be a fork there must but gratuitous divergence should be avoided.  What Ian is saying that got lost in the flames is that Debian should pull its socks up and release sarge already
<spacey> and binary compatible seems quite crappy to me, if debian only releases once every 5 years or something
<jaldhar> spacey: where he is wrong is thinking that not working on ubuntu would make that happen faster
<spacey> jaldhar, yeah
<ajmitch> now it's only been ~3 years since woody released, not 5 ;)
<jaldhar> actually the latest point release of woody was only a few weeks ago :)
<HostingGeek> I belive debian should be a package system and that all
<HostingGeek> always moving
<HostingGeek> then distros like ubuntu take a snapshot and make something out of it
<spacey> i don't understand why they are referring to rpm world and stuff, wasnt the beauty that all software was available in the repo's anyway. especially for debian itself
<jaldhar> HostingGeek: I've made that argument in the Debian lists before
<HostingGeek> so stable would have apache 2.0.53 by now
<HostingGeek> debian should just be a source distro muwhahahaha (Please don't ever do this!)
<HostingGeek> (unless everything gets writen in python)
<JanC> well, if everything should be written in Python, you'd better install "Cleese OS"  :)
<jaldhar> spacey: just throwing it all into a repository is easy.  The QA is the value add over RPM distros
<JanC> the QA is also their problem I guess  :)
* Amaranth heads for bed
<JanC> there being so many packages for so many architectures that there are always some things broken that hinder release...
<spacey> funny comments in ian's blog
<schweeb> jbailey: in practice, I've been drinking since I was 16 :P
<ajmitch> 16 is probably quite late to start drinking in NZ ;)
<spacey> ive been practicing since 14 or 15 :p
<schweeb> new job celebrations rule
<schweeb> :)
* schweeb falls asleep
<desrt> greetings, masters
<desrt> how is the universe?
<ajmitch> frozen :)
<ajmitch> we can't work on it until breezy opens
<desrt> i guess that disproves heat death
<doko> ajmitch: sure, you can put these into malone, but AFAIK this cannot be done automatically
<Usiu> Hi
<Usiu> Anybody here >
<tseng> morning dudes
<Treenaks> hey tseng
<tseng> how goes?
<Treenaks> brain is fried from implementing some weird internal stuff here
<Treenaks> (mail-related address lookup stuff... major case of NIH)
<tseng> hm
<tseng> i just suck it up and use outlook at work right now
<tseng> they have exchange 5.5, evolution is no love
<Treenaks> tseng: oh, that's not the problem, that part is nice and POP3
<Treenaks> tseng: the problem is that we forward mail for our customers... and those addresses need looking-up
<tseng> hm
<tseng> hula will be cool for that stuff, but its way off =/
<tseng> right now it wont even send me mail because i dont have an MX record or some such
<tseng> works from every other mta
<dredg> yeah, sendmail legacy feature
<dredg> if you can't find the mx, send to the A
<tseng> i dont think it sends to the A
<Treenaks> tseng: we're using powermail, but with a custom oracle backend
<tseng> it just fails to deliver anything
<dredg> sendmail does. hula clearly does not
<tseng> thats pretty crap
<tseng> i wonder if its a setting in that horrid admin thing
<Mithrandir> it should send to A, if not it's severly broken
<Mithrandir> anyhow, including a MTA in a calendar server is so broken
<dredg> it's groupware. nuf said :)
<Treenaks> GrOuPWaReZ
<Mithrandir> I want a good calendar app, dammit
<Mithrandir> :)
<tseng> <brandon@smarterits.com>; originally to brandon@smarterits.com (unrecoverable error)
<tseng> The host 'smarterits.com' is unknown or could not be looked up
<tseng>  ----- transcript of session follows -----
<tseng> >>> MX Lookup
<tseng> <<< DNS Host unknown
<tseng> it must mean the MX, because their is certainly a working record
<Treenaks> not having an MX should be an offence punishable by death
<dredg> but you should have an MX
<tseng> why would I make an MX pointing at the same box?
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: no, it shouldn't.
<dredg> because that's what mail exchanger records are for?
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: yes, it should.
<tseng> no, its not
<Mithrandir> falling back to A is just fine.
<tseng> its for pointing at a different box in cases where you need to
<Treenaks> you can't register .nl domains if you don't have valid MX records for your domain..
<Treenaks> they quote some RFC
<Burgundavia> cool. I want one --> http://infralynx.nrl.navy.mil/photoGallery/ChicagoI.htm
<Burgundavia> sorry, wrong channel
<Burgundavia> just noticed
<koke_> testing...
<koke> great :D
<koke> brb
<fabbione> hey guys
<dredg> hey fabbione :)
<fabbione> hi dredg
<koke> hi again
<fabbione> i am seeking for a volunteer?
<fabbione> to package 2 little applications
<dredg> yup, sure
<fabbione> dredg: are you up to it?
<fabbione> i will review them personally, but they are pretty simple
<dredg> not immediately as i have some work to do
<dredg> is it urgent?
<fabbione> http://sourceforge.net/projects/aoetools/
<fabbione> dredg: not at all
<fabbione> there are 2 sources.. aoetools and vblade
* dredg nods
<dredg> ok, i'll have a look at them later
<fabbione> dredg: in 2/3 days would be fine...
<fabbione> they are very simple.. it won't take you more than that to do them properly
<fabbione> i want them in the archive as soon as breezy open
<dredg> ok
<fabbione> since they are the userland tools from some new kernel features
<fabbione> but they are really cute and i would like to test them.. specially the vblade part :)
<dredg> yeah, this looks pretty neat
<Treenaks> fabbione: is there hardware that understands this?
<fabbione> Treenaks: yes, there is a kernel driver for the generic protocol, developed by an hw manufacturer
<Treenaks> fabbione: cool
<fabbione> the vblade is a userland tool/daemon that can simulate the hardware :)
<fabbione> that would solve a lot of my HD problems :)
<fabbione> without using nfs
<dredg> likewise
<fabbione> in combination with GFS it would be the rock :)
<Mithrandir> nice
<Mithrandir> fabbione: looked into iSCSI?
<ajmitch> looks quite useful
<ajmitch> what kernels have the features needed?
<fabbione> Mithrandir: doesn't that require a shared scsi chain?
<Mithrandir> fabbione: scsi over IP?
<Mithrandir> no, shouldn't
<fabbione> Mithrandir: nope i didn't.. but i think it is the same concept, isn't it?
<fabbione> as aoe
<Mithrandir> more or less, yes
<pvh> What package has libwine.so.1 in it? I can't find it anywhere and I've installed libwine*
<pvh> I'm running, of course, the latest and greatest in Hoary technology.
<Treenaks> pvh: what needs it?
<pvh> Treenaks: wine
<Treenaks> pvh: apt-get install wine
<pvh> Of course I did that.
<pvh> And I've googled on the topic as well.
<Treenaks> I've apt-get installed wine.. and it works fine
<pvh> Could you tell me if you see it when you type
<pvh> dpkg -L libwine | grep libwine.so
<pvh> ?
<Treenaks> /usr/lib/libwine.so.1
<pvh> Hmm. What version do you have?
<Treenaks> ii  libwine        0.0.20050310-1 Windows Emulator (Library)
<pvh> Aha.
<pvh> I have 1.1, which is in universe.
<Treenaks> it is?
<Treenaks> I have this from universe
<Treenaks> oh wait
<Treenaks> it's truncated
<pvh> Oh.
<Treenaks> it's really 1.1
<Treenaks> but dpkg -l likes to break its own output
<pvh> Well then, how on earth could I be missing those files?
<pvh> Maybe I should remove it and reinstall.
<Treenaks> you could try that
* fabbione -> food :)
<pvh> Victory!
<Treenaks> pvh: what was the problem?
<pvh> I haven't the froggiest. I can only assume the files got clobbered at some point by something else I did.
<Treenaks> disk full?
* dredg finds that alias dpkg="COLUMNS=200 dpkg" works
<jbailey> schweeb: Right.  I meant legally. =)
* ajmitch needs to set aside some beer money :)
<GheRivero> res
<ajmitch> night all :)
<tseng|work> hm dholbach really did crash
<\sh> what?
<tseng|work> hah i would have never thought of that
<tseng|work> i need a power converter for australian plugs
<thom> tseng|work: heh, yes
<GheRivero> res
<zooko> Is there an established protocol for me to say "Dear Ubuntu: Would you please consider supporting [My Pet Tool]  and moving it from universe to main?"?
<ogra> zooko, the ubuntu-devel mailing list and the TechincalBoard
<zooko> Thanks.
<herve> hi
<ogra> hey herve
<dholbach> hey
<herve> hi!
<dholbach> hey herve
<dholbach> bbl
<ajmitch> morning all
<crimsun> morning ajmitch
<ogra> hi ajmitch
<crimsun> evenin' ogra
<ajmitch> what's up?
<ogra> writing a long mail to u-devel
<ogra> hum, not long, bit it took some time to express what i mean....
<ogra> s/bit/but
<ogra> hey koke
<ogra> koke, so we actually meet in UdU ?
<koke> ogra: yeah :D
<ogra> yippie :)
<diamond_> lo
<ajmitch> good day
<diamond> there we go
<trulux> any thoughts on making an Ubuntu conference in Europe, like the one in Matar :)
<trulux> Extremadura could rock
<dredg> europe? who the hell lives in that place?
<trulux> the local government in Andaluca has an agreement with Canonical for working on an Ubuntu derivated distribution
<trulux> Guadalinex
<diamond> dredg: no-one worth talking to
<trulux> dredg: I live in that place, and I hope there were reasons to make the conf. in Matar
<trulux> diamond: really?
<herve> dredg, er... aren't you Irish? ;-)
<dredg> diamond: yer.
<dholbach> hellas
<diamond> trulux: ,-)
<diamond> dholbach: hey
<dredg> dholbach: will you be around at 5am? :)
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dredg> dholbach: feeling masochistic? :)
<dholbach> dredg: think so :-)
<dholbach> hey diamond, dredg, ajmitch :-)
* ajmitch wishes he had a faster cd writer :)
* dholbach wishes he was more used to a laptop keyboard
* dholbach cries silently
<ajmitch> just burning a hoary live cd to play with at work
* dredg wishes he had cake
<herve> dholbach, remove the gloves ;-)
<dholbach> dredg: hrmmmm cake
<ajmitch> ok, burnt, time to run to work ;)
<tritium> dholbach, using ogra's laptop, or did you get your own?
<ogra> tritium, he already left :(
<dholbach> tritium: my sister's :-)
<dredg> sweet zombie jesus 5am
* dredg sighs
<ogra> dredg, wrong timezone ;)
<ogra> dredg, we can sleep 1h longer here
<dredg> ogra: given my usual luck with sleep i'll probably be still awake
<ogra> heh
<dredg> heh, 5 new MS vulns. announced this evening
<dredg> wb
<ogra> hmm, koke, could you move your site from the MaintainerCandidates page ?
<koke> ogra: ok, I'll do
* diamond flees
<ajmitch_> live cd not so great on work computer :(
<herve> bye all!
<tritium> Thank you dholbach and ogra :)
<ogra> :)
<dholbach> *waiting* :-)
<ajmitch_> eek, didn't realise there was meeting now
<dredg> hmm?
<dredg> er? what have i missed?
<tritium> Thanks for that ajmitch_ :)
<ajmitch_> tritium: my humblest apologies for not getting reviews done :(
<dholbach> new-package-for-hoary-universe and doc/devel-team-cooperationg
<tritium> ajmitch_, no worries :)
<ajmitch_> tritium: 1 beer voucher, redeemable at UdU? ;)
<tritium> ajmitch_, I wish I could be there!
<tritium> thanks crimsun :)
<tritium> Thank you everyone.
<dredg> shit, was completely unaware of a meeting
<crimsun> np. CC will essentially be a rubber stamp.
<tritium> That was a nice surprise :)
<crimsun> welcome aboard, mike
<ajmitch_> dredg: as was I
<dholbach> congratulations michael :-)
<ajmitch_> tritium: well done :)
<dredg> tritium: congrats :)
<tritium> :-)
* tritium does a happy dance
<ogra> :)
<tritium> I am humbled by your support :)
<ajmitch_> now this means you have to WORK! ;)
<dholbach> hahaha :-)
<tritium> ajmitch, I will :)
<dholbach> tritium: you seemed to have quite a lot of followers :-)
<tritium> dholbach, that was very nice
<dholbach> ROCK :-)
<ajmitch_> now all you need is the tshirt :)
<tritium> Is there one?
<tritium> I knew one was being talked about...
<ajmitch_> not yet, afaik
<tritium> ogra, regarding the CC, I was pursuing the universe maintainer exception: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember
<tritium> That does not appear to require CC approval
<dholbach> we should rework our docs :-)
<ogra> tritium, MOTU requires membeship
<ogra> +r
<crimsun> yep, need to be a member to be a maintainer ;)
<tritium> ogra, yes, but "Maintainership through this process implies membership...:
<tritium> "
<crimsun> tritium: yes, but you still need CC approval
<Amaranth> "Temporary (Pre-Hoary) Universe Maintainer Exception"
<dholbach> and have a motu-meeting deciding over t-shirt--logo :-)
<ogra> which you onlygain through the CC
<tritium> crimsun, okay, the wording is rather unclear than
<tritium> then
<crimsun> tritium: at this point, it will be a rubber stamp, since the TB has already approved you.
<tritium> Cool :)
<Amaranth> Wait, to be a maintainer in universe for my own software I have to do all this stuff?
<tritium> Amaranth, I realize it was pre-hoary.  Nevertheless, that was what I was pursuing.
<crimsun> Amaranth: that's correct if you meant for upload privileges.
<dholbach> Amaranth: yes, such a process is completely inevitable
<Amaranth> Oh, I meant just to make the packages and give them to one of you.
<dredg> Amaranth: there's not a lot to it really.
<dholbach> Amaranth: no, just for MOTU status and upload privileges
<tritium> The CC meeting is in just under 7 hours, correct?
<dredg> correct
<tritium> thanks
<crimsun> midnight, heh
<crimsun> yeesh ;)
<ajmitch_> dholbach: shall we begin the initiation? ;)
<crimsun> back in a bit
<dredg> bah, if i had known about the TB meeting i'd have poked diamond with the great stick of "get the hell in there" :)
<dholbach> :-))
<dredg> we need rdf feeds
<dredg> dammit
<dredg> :)
<dholbach> YES
<dholbach> dredg: :-)
<tritium> You guys are the best.  I can't thank you enough for supporting me.
<dredg> dholbach: and beer! and blackjack!
<tritium> Working with you all has been a privelege.  I look forward to continuing it.
<dholbach> blackjack? hrm...
<dholbach> tritium: same goes out to you... good to have you here :-)
<tritium> :-)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> yeah
<tritium> Thanks!
<tritium> Okay, I must excuse myself.  I have to meet with my advisor.
<tritium> Take care all, and I'll see you later on.
<dredg> hmm, so sleep now (if i can, i'm out of sleeping tablets) or stay awake til 5
<dredg> night tritium
<dholbach> bye tritium
<tritium> see you
* tritium waves
<dholbach> i'll be off to bed soon too
<ogra> bye tritium
* dredg can't decide
<siretart> evening, folks
<dholbach> hey siretart
<ogra> hi siretart
<dholbach> everyone who wants to become member-> tomorrow 4 utc
<dholbach> april 13th, 4 utc to be exact
<siretart> hi dholbach, hello ogra
<siretart> 4 utc is 6 in the morning in germany, yes?
<dholbach> siretart: yes
<siretart> awfully early ;)
<dholbach> in summer times :-)
<ajmitch_> 4pm here for me, not too hard :)
<dredg> ajmitch_: bastard :)
<siretart> hrhr
<\sh> dholbach: prerequisite for a member? ,-)
<dholbach> \sh: some kind of evidence for "working" in ubuntu
<dholbach> ... any ... :-)
<\sh> dholbach: a well :)
<dholbach> and signing the CoC
<\sh> yeah...what about "hating documentation"?
<\sh> next time :) first of all i will send in some packages ;)
<dholbach> \sh: beg your pardon?
<Amaranth> 4 utc is 11pm here
<\sh> dholbach: well...I'm fighting here with the debian packaging manual ;)
<dholbach> \sh: i think this has nothing to do with the process of becoming member :-)
<\sh> dholbach: nono ;) but i will apply for a membership the next time...not this time :)
<dholbach> good one :-)
<tseng> dholbach: !
<dholbach> tseng: ? :-)
<ogra> dholbach, looks like we can do  beachvolleyball game MOTU vs main ;)
<dholbach> YES :-)
<Amaranth> at ubu?
<ogra> yeah
<Amaranth> someone needs to setup a video stream
<dholbach> Amaranth: jdub surely will
<thom> heh, rocking
<dholbach> i think, i'll be off to bed now... have a nice evening :-)
* dredg wishes he was going to udu
* siretart joins dholbach. gn8 everyone, cu tomorrow! (or better: later ;) )
<dholbach> bye siretart
<dredg> night dholbach, siretart
<crimsun> night dholbach
<ogra> dholbach, will you attend CC ?
<dholbach> bye dredg, jani
<dholbach> ogra: yes
<ogra> oh, great...
* dredg will be there too
<dredg> ajmitch can make breakfast
<dholbach> woohoo, exactly, give ajmitch something todo :-)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> well...today was a nice day...laying in bed, laptop on the hips...and learning how to use dpatch, writing rules files, oracle lintian warnings, crashing firefox with 86 tabs opened
<crimsun> just use cdbs's dpatch module ;)
<\sh> crimsun: well...too late :)
<\sh> funny thing is: if you want to package a library source
* dholbach puts something else on his hips for a "perfect day" description ;-)
<ogra> hehe
<dholbach> bye :-)
<\sh> you need to know, that all the debian stuff wants to have as destdir $(CURDIR)/debian/libfoo and $(CURDIR)/debian/libfoo-dev, if don't do this, u sit at your desk, just like me, and do 10 hours of rtfming
* ajmitch_ make breakfast? huh? :)
<dredg> ajmitch_: just toast and coffee for me, thx ;)
<ajmitch_> oh sure
<ajmitch_> you want to come to NZ to collect it then?
<dredg> yes, if you're paying for the flights ;)
<ajmitch_> haha
<ajmitch_> if I could do that, I'd be flying instead
<ajmitch_> it's only the other side of the world :)
<dredg> true
* dredg sighs
<dredg> guess it'll be cold pizza for brekkie then :)
* ajmitch_ probably has distant relatives in that area
<thom> 20 hours or so of flight just for brekkie seems a little OTT
<dredg> thom: not if i can convince ajmitch to bring it here.
<thom> dredg: true, true
<ogra> dredg, at least the egg will be cold
<thom> dredg: but if you came this way you could stay for UDU ;-)
<ogra> yeah !
<dredg> thom: dude, i wish
<ajmitch_> more MOTUs at UDU, excellent :)
<dredg> if someone wants to fund me... :)
<ajmitch_> I think there's at least 5 or 6 of us there?
<thom> more of you to get beat at volleyball ;-)
<dredg> thom: yeah, we irish people don't get to see the sun that often so outdoors just doesn't happen :)
<ogra> ajmitch_, yup
<ajmitch_> ogra: so whose team will you be on?
<ogra> hmm, good question *g*
<thom> dredg: *g*
<dredg> thom: but that's ok, it's a defeat i could gracefully accept
* ajmitch_ spends a little too much time sitting at a desk
<thom> ajmitch_: i think we all do, really
* ogra dont
* dredg works from home.
<ogra> i always work in my armchair
<dredg> far too much time at a desk
<thom> ogra: work harder then, slacker ;-)
<ogra> hehe
* thom grins, ducks, runs
<ogra> thom, i'll get you ..... on sunday
<thom> ogra: you're here for LCA? rocking! :-)
<ajmitch_> ah, I wish I could be there for LCA again
<ajmitch_> adelaide was fun
<ogra> thom, nope...i'll be there for a week sydney ;)
<thom> ogra: ah, heheh :-)
<thom> ajmitch_: yeah
<ajmitch_> I hope to see you all here in Dunedin in 2006
<thom> ajmitch_: too right, omnic would never speak to me again if i didn't ;-)
<dredg> gah, 11pm again
* dredg organises dinner
<dredg> and in this case, dinner will also be breakfast. yes! cold pizza! winner! ;)
<\sh> grmpf
<ajmitch_> yes, about time I got breakfast
* ajmitch_ has been at work for a couple of hours, is hungry now :)
<\sh> i compiled this bloody lib with -Wl,-share -fPIC and it won't be recognized as shared lib and lintian is bugging me :(
* thom waits for jdub to wait up to get breakfast
<fabbione> thom: is already morning there?
* Mithrandir ponders going to bed
* fabbione should do the same
<thom> fabbione: 8am
<thom> (s/wait/wake/)
<fabbione> thom: hmmm i need to wake up in 5 hours and 30..
<fabbione> that's almost a call to bed
<fabbione> but 2.6.12 is looking too good :)
<dredg> fabbione: or you could just stay awake
<tseng> hey dudes
<Mithrandir> thom: so you're just 8 hours ahead.  That means I have to slack off eight hours or catch up 16.  Joy.
<Mithrandir> heya dude
<dredg> tseng: hey
#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-24
<dredg> tseng: argh, git. you noticed my promise to perlify your nowplaying script
<dredg> now i'll have to do it :-/
<ajmitch_> dredg: what's wrong with python?
<tseng> dredg: caught you!
<ajmitch_> heh
<dredg> i prefer perl? i know perl already? i don't want to half learn another language and produce even tattier looking things?
<dredg> and most importantly, perl is ideally suited to my brain. python looks far too logical and sane
<ajmitch_> yeah, that is true
<dredg> tseng: i cry :c
<dredg> tseng: nah, only kidding. useful script
<tseng> yeah i agree with your summaryh
<tseng> echo "<br>" is the worst
<tseng> but i do the same thing in php at times
<tseng> when i need to expand a variable in with the html
* dredg nodnods
<tseng> echo "<td>$value</td>"
<tseng> just did that today
<tseng> 2 dimensional array :(
<tseng> of snmpwalk output :(
<dredg> ew
<dredg> tseng: that said i'm a huge fan of being lazy :)
<tseng> yeah dude
<tseng> i think i wrote a function to do it
<tseng> in bash
<tseng> what would it look like in perl
<HostingGeek> koke: you poor thing
<HostingGeek> koke: you want me to show howto login?
<dredg> tseng: i'd also like muine-shell if it gave a decent return value
<tseng> dredg: yeah
<tseng> see my gross hacks around that
<dredg> i saw
<dredg> i whimpered
<tseng> hahahah
<tseng> # wow this is gross. muine-shell doesnt seem to return 1 on failure, however.
<tseng> ps aux | grep mono | grep muine > /dev/null
<tseng> if [ $?  == "0" ] ; then
<tseng>     is_playing
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o tseng]  by ChanServ
<tseng> HostingGeek: could you not come back in here please?
<tseng> HostingGeek: as in ever.
<HostingGeek> what did i do?
<tseng> you were an ass to a top contributor
<tseng> beyond that, i could make you a list
<HostingGeek> tseng: i was being sicastic over his blog...
<tseng> using caps, ignoring repeatedly requests not to use caps, badgering motus, being off topic, claiming other peoples work as your own, and generally being counterproductive
<tseng> when most people are poking fun at someone, they are a) friends with them, b) use emoticons to show that they are joking
<HostingGeek> tseng: also i don't think he got what i said as he peered out to soon
<tseng> get a clue
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+q *!*HostingGe@*.exetel.com.a]  by tseng
<HostingGeek> when was the last time i used caps?
<HostingGeek> besides for a nick?
<tseng> ugh stupid thing
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+q *!*HostingGe@*.exetel.com.a]  by tseng
<tseng> ...
<HostingGeek> tseng: any ubuntu conbiruder is my best friend
<tseng> my client sucks, freenode doesnt support that
<tseng> oh well, play nice
<HostingGeek> oh ok
<fabbione> tseng: mind does...
<tseng> fabbione: for some reason mode +b is ending up +q
<HostingGeek> tseng: well as you are going to australia soon i might want to say its au not just a...
<tseng> .au
<HostingGeek> tseng: because it is +q
* HostingGeek wonders if anyone else besides me reads Planet Ubuntu
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o tseng]  by tseng
<\sh> HostingGeek: i'm reading
<HostingGeek> \sh: you saw koke comment...
<\sh> HostingGeek: posted when?
<HostingGeek> \sh: yestersay i think
<\sh> http://koke.amedias.org/2005/04/11/ill-be-there-upside-down/ ?
<HostingGeek> yes
<\sh> yes I read it..nothing new ;)
<ajmitch_> ogra: so what's the plan for universe maintenance for breezy? wait until the sync-from-sid deluge?
<ogra> ajmitch, i think we'll make plans in UdU, we'll have to cope with the gcc4 transition for a hell of a lot of packages
<ajmitch_> yep
<ajmitch_> nothing as simple as the python transition, either
<ogra> nope
<ajmitch_> UdU isn't too far away, thankfully
<ogra> yep...thats intentional :)
<ajmitch_> yeah, I can't wait to get out of dunedin for a few days :)
<ogra> i cant wait to see your side of the world ;)
<dredg> will jdub be rigging up udutv! ?
<ogra> hopefully
<dredg> winner
<schweeb> almost definitely
<dredg> i predict it will be a ratings smash
<schweeb> he brought it to lca
<ogra> he did this in mataro too, but we had no access to the router, so there was no outbound connection
<thom> hrm, talking to him yesterday it's not likely we'll have the infrastructure for it
<thom> we shall see
<ogra> thom, thats what i was fearing...
<thom> if we can just get it all recorded and push it later that would still rock
<ogra> would be nice to have a livestream and irc discussion at the bof :)
<dredg> i dunno, that could lead to some editing....
<ajmitch_> being .au, it'd probably break the bank for internet traffic
<schweeb> oh crap
<schweeb> is there a CC meeting tonight?
<ajmitch_> apparantly
<ajmitch_> 0400 UTC they say
<schweeb> so midnight my time
* schweeb put himself on the list for membership
<schweeb> good thing I decided not to go to the bar tonight!
<schweeb> still have more celebrating left in my system for gettin this new job, hehe
<thom> (recorded stream plus annodex would be sweet)
<thom> schweeb: congrats, where/what?
<schweeb> thom: contracting to DaimlerChrysler doing Solaris Backup Admin
<schweeb> so, a lot of perl coding and dealing with SANs and tape backup systems when they fail
<schweeb> I'll be making a lot more $$$ than someone my age should be making ;)
* schweeb is pretty hyped
<thom> schweeb: well, commiserations on the perl thing, but otherwise, nice
<thom> ;-)
<schweeb> <3 perl
<thom> i realised the other day i've entirely forgotten all the perl i used to knpw
<schweeb> you a python convert?
<thom> yep
<schweeb> the python I've seen makes no sense to me, so I haven't even bothered trying to learn it
<ajmitch_> schweeb: yeah, probably a lot more than I'm getting doign php coding :)
<ogra> schweeb, beware, if you once started you cant stop anymore....
<schweeb> heh
<schweeb> ajmitch_: undoubtedly
<ogra> and eventually python will slowly replace all your perl knowledge
<schweeb> I quite enjoy perl
<\sh> ogra: quite true
<ogra> i did too...
<schweeb> it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy
<ajmitch_> we all know that python is the one true way, there is no other
<ogra> yeah
<ajmitch_> (cue other fanboy reponses) ;)
<schweeb> ajmitch_: luckily I never got roped into PHP at my existing job... I did all the admin type stuff
<schweeb> which worked out great, cause my resume is uber padded
<ajmitch_> I'm doing mainly php, only a little bit of admin
<schweeb> I like a good mix of coding and admin
<schweeb> the one part of my current job I despise is helpdesk
<ajmitch_> ah
<zorglub> hello,
<ajmitch_> for good reasons
<schweeb> hi, zorglub
<zorglub> the UniverseCandidates wikipage says that the package must build on warty main.
<zorglub> Is it that it hasn't been updated ?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> seems like
<schweeb> I would imagine so.
<zorglub> but I guess it's for the currently unstable distrib, right ?
<ajmitch_> one would assume so
<zorglub> so not hoary anymore
<zorglub> ok, just wanted to be sure :)
* schweeb ponders how many Universe packages would ACTUALLY build on warty main right now from hoary
<tseng> we dont really use the candidates page
<tseng> now that we have motutodo
<ajmitch_> build without relying on other crack that is dragged in from elsewhere :)
<tseng> candidates was for stuff we wanted the canonical guys to do
<tseng> pre-motu
<ajmitch_> schweeb: lots would fail
<ogra> tseng, nope
<tseng> ogra, nope
<schweeb> ajmitch_: I'd guess like 70% or higher would fail
<ogra> tseng, it was also propagated to the ML for a long time during MOTU
<ajmitch_> I thought the candidates page was originally intended for users to submit packages themselves?
<tseng> dholbach and i direct everyone to MOTUTodo
<ajmitch_> that is where those packages are put now
<ogra> tseng, http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTURecruitment
<\sh> grmpf
<ajmitch_> and now UniverseCandidates is used for package suggestions
<\sh> 14 hours of ming compile only because of lintian
<ogra> its a popular page we shouldnt loose
<zorglub> ok, I guess the MOTUNewPackages is for when you have packages you think are ready, then
<schweeb> any of you guys gonna be around for the CC meeting?  feel like saying "schweeb rocks" :)
<ogra> (last edited 22 hours ago )
<\sh> ogra: i think my laptop is melting
<\sh> can call the hp service again ;)
<ajmitch_> schweeb: I may be around - I'll be working in the lab @ uni when the meeting starts
<ogra> tseng, its been propagated for a long time now, if you guys want to redirect to MOTUTodo, please do it there too
<schweeb> ajmitch_: you a member (I can never keep track of all of them)
<tseng> of course he is
<schweeb> I assumed so :)
<schweeb> I know he's DD
<ajmitch_> schweeb: I'm a MOTU
<ajmitch_> (and DD, but that doesn't matter much here)
<zorglub> hum, another question. Which page is the proper one to ask for an update of a package (resynch on sid, in my case)
<zorglub> (well, for when breezy is open)
<schweeb> considering the DD process is more stringent than MOTU, it's not exactly a bad thing to have if you wanna be MOTU :)
<ajmitch_> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUToSync
<ogra> zorglub, universe will get synced completely once....
<ajmitch_> zorglub: when breezy opens, it'll sync again
<zorglub> oh ok
<thom> breezy is teh open
<ajmitch_> and we'll have a mad job of merging patches, etc of things we've changed
<ogra> zorglub, so MOTUToSync isnt really interesting at this stage
<ajmitch_> 'open', but not syncing yet :)
<zorglub> I couldn't find much doc on the universe processes
<ogra> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU
<ogra> everything below this page....
<ajmitch_> you'll see a lot of links from there
<zorglub> yes, but it's mainly coordination stuff
<ajmitch_> most from our resident WikiMaster
<ogra> zorglub, there is the MOTUNewPackagesPolicy describiung the process for all NEW packages we include for example....
<ogra> or MOTUPackages for packages that loosly have a own maintainer
<zorglub> ok
<ajmitch_> bbl
<zorglub> ok, thanks for the pointers
<zorglub> 'night
<tseng> did i miss the meeting?
<tseng> or some such
<schweeb> tseng: midnight
<tseng> uh
<tseng> forget that, dude.
<tseng> i need to go to philly tommorow
<schweeb> tseng: what for?
<tseng> to get a passport
<ajmitch> ouch, that'll be expensive to get one so soon
<schweeb> are you going to UdU or something, tseng?
<ajmitch> yep :)
* ajmitch thankfully got his passport for lca'04
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> i'm getting crazy
<\sh> shared lib package: libfoo_major.minor & libfoo-dev_major.minor ... lintian is bugging me: no shlibs control file usr/lib/libfoo.so.major.minor but i have a shlibs.local file
<\sh> finally i have it
<thom> *cough* first breezy universe upload to me! ;-) (it'll move to main soon)
<schweeb> breezy's open
<schweeb> ?
<schweeb> what'd you upload?
<thom> schweeb: yes
<thom> readahead-list
<ajmitch> great
<thom> it's the new readahead package, just needs to be seeded into main
* schweeb changes his news reader to breezy-changes
<schweeb> ugh
<schweeb> it's not in gmane yet
<schweeb> :-/
<ajmitch> it's a good excuse for me to use my gmail account
<schweeb> I have a gmail account I've used only like 3 times, heh
<desrt> yes!
<desrt> breezy power!
<schweeb> is that like desert power in dune? :p
<ajmitch> schweeb: I hadn't used mine until I signed up to track the users & changes lists
<desrt> i have a friend who named his livejournal "desrtpower" after me :)
<schweeb> ajmitch: I <3 gmane
<ajmitch> schweeb: yeah, it is great
<schweeb> I used to subscribe to LKML
<schweeb> *shudder*
<ajmitch> ouch
<schweeb> I neglected to check that folder for 3 months...
<schweeb> big mistake.
<desrt> ow.
<desrt> run out of disk space?
<schweeb> nah
<schweeb> I got a decent bit of space on my colo
<desrt> so uh
<desrt> sudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list
<desrt> :%s/hoary/breezy/
<desrt> sudo apt-get update
<desrt> this isn't sufficient :)
<desrt> although, i do have a spiffy new version if lame
<crimsun> oh jeez.
<crimsun> breezy's open?
<crimsun> better get my "oh sh*t" handle ready
<thom> yup, game on
<thom> mdz' announcing to -devel shortly
<crimsun> (it's already announced)
<thom> ah, just got here
<ogra> hi sz_ :)
<sz_> ;o))
<dredg> ogra: pulling an allnighter?
* ogra gives sz a big *smack*
<ogra> dredg, she sits aside ;)
<dredg> i see :)
<crimsun> ok, pbuilder updated, time to start the updates!
<ajmitch_> great :)
<ajmitch_> reminds me to update my pbuilder..
<Amaranth> breezy's open?!?
<crimsun> yes.
<Amaranth> yay
<crimsun> better prep my script to autoload $package's Debian BTS page
<bddebian> ajmitch_!!
<crimsun> I have a feeling I'm going to be applying a lot of patches to make things compile with gcc-4.0
<ajmitch_> hi bddebian
<thom> crimsun: friad so
<dredg> mmm sushi
<bddebian> blech
<ajmitch_> bddebian: what's up?
<bddebian> Nada.  You?
<Amaranth> do i dare say something about breezy on #ubuntu?
<schweeb> no
<Amaranth> just to tease people of course, since there is nothing new in it :)
<dredg> teasing fanboys is a dangerous practise
<schweeb> don't say breezy, or you'll get the ricers all asking questions about it :p
<Amaranth> HostingGeek might attack me :/
<crimsun> let the official announcement reach them first.
<Amaranth> I told him I wasn't working on my menu editor anymore and he filled my scrollback with "NOOOO..." :P
<dredg> really?
<Amaranth> yeah, it was scary
<dredg> fuck
<Amaranth> ?
<dredg> that's just not right
<Amaranth> I'm still working on it, if that's what you mean. :)
<dredg> oh no, the hg reaction
<Amaranth> ah, yeah
<Amaranth> my scrollback is only about two screens though
<dredg> even still
<dredg> here's hoping that he doesn't ever breed
<ajmitch_> dredg: now, be nice :)
<schweeb> why can't I fast forward 65 minutes... I just want the damn CC meeting to start :p
<ajmitch_> :)
<ajmitch_> staying up late?
<dredg> ajmitch: sorry, it's 4am, i'm tired, cranky and currently having a minor crisis in my head :)
<schweeb> ajmitch_: it'll be midnight here
<schweeb> but, I was a bit hung over all day today
<ajmitch_> aha :)
<bddebian> DIE SITH SCUM!
<schweeb> someone watchin some star wars?
<crimsun> heh, I just edited MOTU to add tritium's nick, too
<crimsun> what a wacky sense of timing
<tritium> Hey crimsun :)  I just got the email about the change.  Thanks!
<crimsun> any NEW packages we agreed could be uploaded that haven't been (and didn't make it into Hoary due to time)?
<tritium> crimsun, asking me?
<crimsun> well, everyone, really.
<crimsun> going to look at the relevant wiki pages, need to update MOTUXfce first
<bddebian> schweeb: Actually playing KotOR II :-)
<tritium> I didn't think we could add new packages at this point.  If that's the case, I can try to fix up the problems with my packages.
<tritium> I figured I'd plan on getting them into Breezy
<crimsun> tritium: can't blame you since you just joined. Breezy's now open.
<tritium> oh, okay.  So that would be the plan then...
<tritium> crimsun, thanks for the info ;)
<ogra> crimsun, no rush, we'll see a big automated sync that might change all dependencys....
<crimsun> np, though the honours aren't mine :)
<crimsun> ogra: yep, I'm holding off touching packages that will be hit by the sync
<tritium> ogra, that sure was a nice surprise for me this afternoon
<ogra> :)
<tritium> :-)
<siretart> morning
<crimsun> moin
<tritium> morning
<bddebian> moin moin
<dredg> and to make sure i wake up at 9: at> muine-shell -l /home/niall/loud.m3u
<crimsun> 12 mins to CC
<schweeb> yay
<schweeb> dholbach!!!!
<dholbach> morning
<dholbach> hey schweeb :-)
<tritium> Hello dholbach :)
<ajmitch_> hey dholbach!
<siretart> moin dholbach
<schweeb> dholbach: I got that job
<dholbach> woohoo! PARTY!
<dholbach> schweeb: ROCKING!
<ajmitch_> you'll be glad to see you can upload again :)
<tritium> Congrats schweeb :)
<schweeb> :D
<dredg> so.. will diamond arrive of his own accord or will i have to phone him? :)
* dholbach takes schweeb to the dance floor and does the crazy dance... again 
<siretart> schweeb: congratulations! :)
<ogra> schweeb, nice :)
<schweeb> makin enough money that I'll be puttin school on pause for a while ;)
<ajmitch_> alright, time for me to go off & do some paid work
<ajmitch_> might reconnect from the lab :)
<dholbach> did my eyes deceive me or did breezy open?
<schweeb> your eyes are fine
<dredg> yes.
<crimsun> it's open.
<dholbach> ROCK
* dholbach starts uploading ;-)
<dholbach> hey diamond_
<diamond_> dholbach: hey. what a horrible time of the morning -)
<dredg> diamond_: and with 1.5mins before i started plaguing your phone
<dredg> close
<diamond_> dredg: i so win
<dholbach> diamond_: did dredg call you?
<diamond_> dholbach: nah, i managed to drag myself here just in time to avoid that
<dholbach> even better :-)
* diamond_ pokes nickserv to claim his nick back
* dredg is veh veh tired
<diamond_> dredg: did you sleep?
<dredg> nope
<dholbach> argl
<diamond_> dredg: aieee
<dredg> diamond_: what are those sleeping tablets you mentioned before?
<dholbach> so you guys are all set on CommunityCouncilAgenda?
<diamond_> dredg: noctura
<tritium> dholbach, I added myself
<dredg> diamond_: must get some tomorrow
<schweeb> I'm on
<tritium> say, where do you see that breezy repos opened?
<dredg> diamond_: and `/nickserv ghost' is probably what you want
<schweeb> tritium: u-d mail list
<tritium> ah, of course...
<dholbach> what about AdamIsrael? StoneTable, you're here?
<diamond_> dredg: 'set kill' is actually more use. don't want to have to do this manually everytime
<dredg> diamond_: and you should probably set nick enforcement if the nickserv allows it
<diamond_> dholbach: yup
<diamond_> dredg: *nod*
<schweeb> dholbach: he went ot bed actually
<schweeb> lemme see if I can wake him up
<dholbach> tritium: mail on ubuntu-devel
<tritium> dholbach, si, gracias :)
* dholbach just subscribed to breezy-changes
<dredg> diamond_: actually, i've been compiling sunbird and reading 'the confusion'
<schweeb> dholbach: yea, think he's definitely in bed :-
<schweeb> er :-/
<dredg> mostly the latter, though the former is a highly involved process that i couldn't bring myself to watch
<dredg> ors :)
<diamond> dredg: did you read those 2 files i gave you? "i'll probably cringe when i read this later" and "i am legend"?
<dredg> diamond: nope. i am lazy. plus i forgot
<diamond> dredg: hah. you suck -)
<dredg> i'm tending to forget a lot lately
<dredg> i blame lack of sleep
<diamond> right. i should join ubuntu-meeting, right?
<dredg> yer
<schweeb> my clock says midnight!
<dredg> my clock says 0500. i cry :(
<diamond> schweeb: my body says die -)
<dholbach>  and you all have good wiki pages, rock
<schweeb> diamond: hehe
<diamond> hmm. i wonder if i die from tiredness could i get membership post-humously -)
<dredg> diamond: no, but your corpse might.
<diamond> dredg: that'd do just fine
<dredg> diamond: the worms might disagree
<diamond> dredg: i might disagree with them too ,-)
<dredg> diamond: you'd be dead though, so you most likely wouldn't
<diamond> dredg: i mean digestively
<dredg> diamond: quite true
<dredg> diamond: you see mail no.2 i sent to meteor?
<diamond> dredg: no
<dredg> diamond: http://niall.evil.ie/random/meteor2.txt
<diamond> dredg: hah. nice
<crimsun> night all
<tritium> Good night crimsun :)
<dholbach> bye crimsun
<schweeb> night fellas
<tritium> good night schweeb
<diamond> nite all
<tritium> night diamond
<siretart> woah, I was delivered about 40 mails of ubuntu-devel mails
<dholbach> bye schweeb, diamon :-)
<thom> yeah, jdub just moderated a bunch of mail
<siretart> ah, ubuntu-devel is moderated? this explains the good signal/noise ratio :)
<tritium> I'm exhausted...
<dholbach> bye tritium :-)
<tritium> Good night, dholbach, and everyone else.
<dholbach> i'm having breakfast now
<tritium> yum...I can't wait for morning.  I'm hungry already.
<tritium> I'll be traveling, but I'll be in touch.
<siretart> excellent idea, breakfast..
<tritium> night
<fabbione> yo
<fabbione> dredg: you around?
<dholbach> fabbione: after 426246h without sleep, i think he wanted to read for another hour and drop into bed
<fabbione> yeah well it's not like i am really fresh
<fabbione> i slept barely 4 hours this night :)
<dholbach> i slept 5... got up for CC meeting
<fabbione> yeah
<hsprang> good morning!
<dholbach> hey hsprang
<dholbach> bbl
<GheRivero> res
<\sh> morning
<ajmitch> hi
<\sh> guys...i slept only 3 hours :) and after yesterdays session I'm not a beginner to debian stuff anymore...now I'm a semi-pro ;)
<d3vic3> already? O_o
<\sh> d3vic3: i don't really know...I sat 14 hours on my laptop to get rid of one lintian message...read many documentations, set up apt repositories and stuff, read more documentation and more only to figure out that "dh_makeshlibs" is the solution...;)
<\sh> well, ebuilds are much easier, even rpms ;)
<\sh> the lintian checks are quite hard ;)
<\sh>  and I see that breezy is open
<Mithrandir> \sh: I don't know about how ebuilds work, but http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/03/31/packaging.html is fairly interesting in the context of dh_makeshlibs and debian packages.  Some of the problems he's describing there (hidden dependencies) can't show up in a Debian system.
<\sh> Mithrandir: well..my problem was, packaging a sharedlib. everything was allright, but lintian bugged me about "there is no shlibs control file" and I tried to figure out, why
<Mithrandir> ah
<Mithrandir> shared libraries are hard.
<Mithrandir> but then shared libraries are always hard.
<Mithrandir> I've seen fairly core packages in gentoo get it wrong too (convert broken cause libjpeg or something bumped it soversion)
<\sh> Mithrandir: yeah..but most of the time in gentoo the upstream is mistaken and the ebuild author has to create patched
<\sh> -d+s
<\sh> Mithrandir: but here was everything ok...only this bl
<\sh> bl**dy shlibs.local was wrong..
<Mithrandir> \sh: it's more a result of a broken dependency and the packaging system's inability to spot and track that.
<\sh> other way: if i have a shared lib lets say libfoo.so.major.minor, it depends in libc.so.6 and ld-linux.so.2
<\sh> what is the correct shlibs.local?
<\sh> funny thing is, i checked some sample sources out of the ubuntu repos, but wherever i checked, i didn't found a shlibs.local file...libao2, xine-lib nowhere
<Mithrandir> tseng: rock!
<Treenaks> \sh: dh_makeshlibs
<\sh> Treenaks: yeah ;)
<\sh> Treenaks: after 14 hours I found it ;)
<Shufla> hello
<Treenaks> hu Shufla
<Treenaks> hi, too
* StoneTable yawns
<koke> hey, could someone help me with english jargon
<koke> I don't understand the jcarnie's comment at http://koke.amedias.org/2005/04/11/ill-be-there-upside-down/#comments
<ajmitch> haha
<dredg> koke: that's not english. that's something else entirely
<ajmitch> it's a joke..
<koke> :D
<ajmitch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_Bear
<\sh> hehe
* Amaranth goes to bed
<\sh> :)
<bddebian> Good morning
<dholbach> hi
<StoneTable> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey StoneTable
<dholbach> bbl
<tritium> Hello.
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> What's up, bddebian ?
<bddebian> "work"  :'-(
<tritium> Ah, at least you're 1/2-way done with the day now...
<bddebian> One would think :-)
<tritium> working late?
<bddebian> Usually these days.. :-)
<tritium> ah...
<tritium> Any news on the CC meeting time?
<herve> hi!
<herve> I see breezy is open
<bddebian> Heya herve
<Mithrandir> indeed it is
<herve> but the changes are posted in changes.hoary... oO
<Treenaks> does anyone have a clue on how I could get a dump of the 8k of memory one of my PCI devices has?
<Treenaks> (        Memory at d0206000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8K] )
<herve> write a C program to access that mem area?
<herve> but would the kernel allow it?
<herve> being root, surely
<Treenaks> herve: I'd probably have to use some weird /dev stuff
<Treenaks> or /proc
<herve> I don't think /proc allow that sort of introspection
<herve> but some char device probably
<Treenaks> I'm trying to figure out how to get my PCI7x21 to work
<Treenaks> (flash card reader in my laptop)
<Treenaks> (104c:8033, the datasheet claims it's "a Flash Media controller in ATA mode")
<Treenaks> (but it's an "unknown mass-storage device")
<herve> that makes me think I have a sd card reader not detected
<herve> or the cards inserted are not detected
<Treenaks> well, it's in my PCI list.. but no driver gets loaded to claim/use i t
<Treenaks> so I'm actually thinking of creating a driver.. but for that I need specs
<Treenaks> and time
<herve> time...
<Treenaks> time I can get
<Treenaks> but the specs..
<Treenaks> ti.com doesn't have them
<Treenaks> and I don't really know how to contact companies like that
* Treenaks = hell at communicating with strange companies
<herve> "give me your specs or be doomed!"
<herve> sure it doesn't help :-)
<Treenaks> herve: I don't even know how to contact them.. calling seems like it'll be pointless
<herve> ha! the sd card *is* detected but "cardmgr[8651] : unsupported card in socket 0"
<Treenaks> I don't know enough about electronics to complete their "Mail customer support" form
<Treenaks> so all I need is someone who's good at extracting info from TI persons
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: /proc/kmem?
<herve> Treenaks, contact a salesman and say you bring a partnership for linux support ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<Mithrandir> dd if=/dev/kmem skip=3491782656 count=8192 | od
<Mithrandir> might work
* Treenaks prepares for a horrible crash
<Treenaks> dd: reading `/dev/kmem': Bad address
<Treenaks> maybe /dev/mem
<herve> Treenaks, isn't adding this device to some list of known mass-storage device enough?
<Treenaks> same error :(
<Treenaks> herve: some ATA driver probably..
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: should be easy enough to write a kernel module to dump it, though
<Treenaks> http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/pci6421.pdf -- page 19 for the definition of "ATA driver" and "Flash Media", and page 145 for all I've been able to find
<Treenaks> (wow, evince is FAST)
<Treenaks> anyway, this is just a description of the PCI config area.. which is very similar to most stuff I've seen
<ogra> Treenaks, hal device manager should have more infor in the BIOS device
<ogra> (its ripped off kmem)
<Treenaks> ogra: I have the address.. just not the contents
<Treenaks> I don't believe dmidecode:
<Treenaks>         Portable Battery
<Treenaks>                 SBDS Manufacture Date: 1985-08-25
<ogra> hmm, i guess your bios chip reports only a 5 there....
<Treenaks> probably :)
<Treenaks> ogra: no. it puts a 4 there :)
<ogra> heh
<Treenaks> ogra: 2005-08-25 is in the future
<ogra> true
<Treenaks> anyway..
<Treenaks> I think I need to poke TI.. but where
<ogra> Treenaks, i guess you should wait and try 2.6.12 if it hits breezy....
<Treenaks> ogra: there's no reference of the PCI id in google.. except for lspci -n listings
<Treenaks> so I think there's no driver
<ogra> on my machine even 2.6.11 recognizes 50% more of the devices
<ogra> i think the driver will be quite generic, its just not known by the kernels pcimap yet
<ogra> since you said its a pcmcia device....
<herve> that's my guess too
<Treenaks> ogra: it's not a pcicia device
<Treenaks> pcmcia
<ogra> didnt you talk about cardmgr above ?
<Treenaks> no
<Treenaks> that was herve
<herve> that was me
<herve> :-)
<ogra> ah, yup, just scrolled up...
<ogra> sorry ...
<Treenaks> it's on the same PCI bus as the cardbus controller...
<Treenaks> but that's a different bus than the card in the slot
<herve> but I'm interested by how adding support for my card reader too ;-)
<Treenaks> herve: is it visible using lspci?
<herve> my pcmcia port yes
<ogra> or in lshal/hal device manager
<herve> but my guess about this laptod is that all the media base is a (collection of) usb device(s)
<herve> (laptop...)
<herve> er, wrong gues
<herve> s
<Treenaks> herve: does the card reader show up? :)
<herve> the card reader is not on the media base
<herve> Treenaks, yes
<Treenaks> herve: could you paste?
<herve> and inserting a card is detected
<Treenaks> hm.. here I have this:
<Treenaks> 0000:02:06.3 Unknown mass storage controller: Texas Instruments: Unknown device 8033
<Treenaks> 0000:02:06.3 0180: 104c:8033
<herve> Apr 13 19:56:59 localhost kernel: cs: memory probe 0xa0000000-0xa0ffffff: clean.Apr 13 19:56:59 localhost cardmgr[8651] : unsupported card in socket 0
<herve> Apr 13 19:56:59 localhost cardmgr[8651] :   product info: "RICOH", "Bay1Controlle
<herve> hmm
<herve> there are two pcmcia ports declared...
<herve> I bet the second one is a builtin card reader...
<herve> because I only have a single external port
<Treenaks> I've done my research.. my reader is weird :)
<herve> by the way
<herve> isn't kernel 2.6.11 slowly entering breezy?
<ogra> 2.5.12
<ogra> s/5/6
<crimsun> and oh boy does it have crack
<crimsun> lots of it.
<herve> I saw 2.6.11 header upload
<ogra> yup
<herve> and since it was in universe previously...
<ogra> only the headers....
<herve> as a start?
<ogra> i know fabio just prepared a highly experimental 2.6.12 image for upload...
<herve> I wonder about the point of this otherwise
<herve> higly? *g*
<ogra> he said so in -devel
<ogra> but currently we'll have to wait until all the toolchains are in place
<herve> hmm... saw mdz's post... I quite less tempted to update breezy now ;-)
<ogra> i'm pretty sure it wont be very usable the first days.....
<ogra> but at least you can update your hoary a bit :)
<herve> I'll upgrade after UDU now
<ogra> (with broken stuff indeed)
<herve> yes, I'll selectively upgrade, thanks synaptic!
<ogra> heh
<crimsun> heh, I'm running off a livecd anyhow, so it really doesn't matter ;)
<ogra> heh
<herve> nice idea!
<\sh> ok..guys of motu...if you don't review, i will spam your motunewpackages ;)
<bddebian> heh
<\sh> ok...i will perform now a (K)ubuntu session and put it as flash file on my blog
<herve> someone knows about some certutil command shipped with mozilla?
* ajmitch waits for people to wake up :)
<\sh> I'm awake ;)
<ajmitch> great :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: you up & about? ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Of course!
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> so what's new?
<bddebian> I want to kill myself.  You?
<ajmitch> btw, you haven't happened to send any hardware yet, right?
<ajmitch> ah, crawled out of bed
<ajmitch> regretting getting up
<bddebian> ajmitch: No, sorry.  When are you "leaving" again?
<ajmitch> end of next week
<bddebian> Doh
<ajmitch> :)
<bddebian> I guess I'm overnighting it then eh? :-)
<ajmitch> for that cost, I shoul get a new laptop ;)
<ajmitch> it's certainly not urgent
<ajmitch> bddebian: so have you installed fresh ubuntu goodness yet?
<dholbach> hey
<ajmitch> dholbach!! :)
<dholbach> :-))
<dholbach> MOTU love: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCxxTransition
<ajmitch> so what shall we work on today? ;0
<ajmitch> wee!
<dholbach> doko 's been DAMN busy
<ogra> hey, we dnt transition c++ .... do we ?
<ogra> +o
<dholbach> ogra: you have a problem with c++?
<ajmitch> ogra: breezy will have fresh gcc-4.0 crack
<ogra> afaik g++ will stay 3.3
<ajmitch> plenty of packages that'll need fixed in universe
<ajmitch> are you sure?
<ogra> pretty much
<ajmitch> from what i heard it'll be a c++ transition as well
<dholbach> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition
<ogra> only gcc4.0
<ajmitch> ABI goes 102->1002
<ogra> at least thats what they were talkinmg about the last hrs
<tseng|work> isnt gcc 4.0 supposed to have some hardcore code path optimizers
<tseng|work> predictive stuff
<doko> ogra: yes, but only for two or three weeks
<dholbach> doko: i'm absolutely amazed... you're an absolute workhorse
<tseng|work> i wonder if i should upload mono now
<ogra> doko, oh, i thought for the whole breezy time... thanks for clearifying
<ajmitch> tseng|work: it doesn't look like binaries are being built yet for breezy
<ogra> tseng|work, there are no working buildds yet :) but you could queue it
<ajmitch> ogra: so we were both right, in a way :)
<tseng|work> yeah
<ogra> heh
<crimsun> hey, when you squash the table spacing on UniverseCxxTransition, it doesn't seem that bad!
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I'm glad none of my packages are on there
<dholbach> some of mine are
<ajmitch> like gtkmm
<dholbach> :-)
<ajmitch> you've got about 20x more packages that you've touched than anyone else ;)
<dholbach> on that list?
<ajmitch> no, in general
<ajmitch> I can't tell from that list
<dholbach> wow
<ajmitch> 20x is a rough guess :)
<dholbach> you must have misread something :-)
* ajmitch feels like writing some tools
<bddebian> ajmitch: Sorry.  Yes, it has a nice shiny new ubuntu install :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: I mean on your systems, that you use :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: No, since there isn't an Ubuntu GNU/Hurd yet.. ;-)
<ajmitch> well, get to work ;)
<bddebian> Give me a build system :-)
<ajmitch> don't you have spare hardware?
* ajmitch hacks some selinux stuff
<bddebian> ajmitch: Spare hardware?
<crimsun> mm, excellent. monotone just hit sid today. :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: a build system..
<ajmitch> crimsun: excellent.. I might check that out one day
<JanC> hm, a new educational project that has debian packages: http://edukalibre.org/software ?
<bddebian> ajmitch: I have a build system, I need somewhere to host all the debs :-)
<ajmitch> aha
<dholbach> i'll be off for now... see you later
<herve> night all!
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-17
<bddebian> What does this mean:?
<bddebian> debian/rules:78: warning: overriding commands for target `unpatch'
<bddebian> /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make:34: warning: ignoring old commands for target `unpatch'
<crimsun> you've made your own unpatch target in debian/rules
<bddebian> Yes, do I not need to?
<crimsun> I've never included any dpatch files if I'm using straight dh
<bddebian> So how do I do it right?
<LaserJock> bddebian: I had the same for a package I did from scratch with dpatch apply-all
<crimsun> I've only modified debian/rules's patch & clean and added patch-stamp and clean-patched as in dpatch(1)
<bddebian> LaserJock: That's what I wanted to do but there's no patch target
<bddebian> build was:  build: patch build-stamp  but patch: didn't exist
<bddebian> Should I do:
<LaserJock> bddebian: this is what my debian/rules looks like http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12052
<bddebian> patch: patch-stamp
<crimsun> please just pastebin debian/rules :)
<bddebian> gah
<bddebian> LaserJock: Where do you touch patch-stamp, or does dpatch apply-all do that for you?
<LaserJock> yes, dpatch does it
<LaserJock> I didn't know that at first and so I had a patch-stamp sitting around :(
<bddebian> I still get a warning
<bddebian> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12053
<LaserJock> crimsun: sorry to bug you, but do you have an idea of when you will be able to finish basic.xml? I need to coordinate some things for the translators.
<LaserJock> bddebian: I always have a warning with mine too
<bddebian> Bah, I hate warnings :-)
<bddebian> I guess I can leave it and let the Debian maintainer deal with it :)
<LaserJock> yeah, that is always a sure way to get something done ;-)
<crimsun> the warning is expected if you use the dpatch.make(7) method
<bddebian> Frickin' qgis takes FOREVER to build :-(
<LaserJock> hmm, so with dpatch.make you are just supposed to need the rules, no commands?
<crimsun> correct
<crimsun> the only time you need to use dpatch {de}apply-all is the non-dpatch.make(7) way
<crimsun> that's why you get a warning by using adding dpatch {de}apply-all
<crimsun> s/using/
<crimsun> /g
<LaserJock> hmm, well maybe somebody needs to tell dh_make that
<crimsun> no, we just need to read the man pages more closely
<LaserJock> yeah, that too ;-)
<crimsun> it clearly states in dpatch.make(7) that you only need to change the targets to depend on patch and unpatch
<LaserJock> yes, but the rules file created by dh_make includes dpatch.make and dpatch apply patch so that is somewhat misleading
<crimsun> yep, nasty.
<crimsun> dh_make is being deprecated in Debian
<LaserJock> in favor of?
<ajmitch> checkinstall
<crimsun> sorry, debmake.
<crimsun> <3 thinkos
<crimsun> hah, checkinstall. That would...hurt.
<LaserJock> debmake is to replace dh_make?
<crimsun> no, debmake is being deprecated, not dh_make.
<LaserJock> ok, but you said that dh_make is being depreciated
<crimsun> yes, that's a thinko on my part.
<LaserJock> ok, sorry
<crimsun> (http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00019.html)
<LaserJock> hmm,  well I don't see a bug filed in Debian about it :/
<crimsun> you get to be the lucky bearer
<LaserJock> arggh, I'll try it again. BTS hates me :(
* bddebian jumps off a cliff
<ajmitch> bye bddebian
<bddebian> ajmitch: Bah, YOU wouldn't miss me :-)
<ajmitch> gee, thanks for that
<crimsun> your children might. Think of the children!
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well all I seem to do is either anger you with my stupid questions or offend you with my "humor" :-)
<bddebian> crimsun: So, wanna tell my dumb-ass how I add a binary icon file to a package with the diff.gz?
<LaserJock> bddebian: your questions don't anger. I learned something important from the dpatch thing
<bddebian> LaserJock: Hey, since it's for your Science team, do you know how I add the icon file?
<LaserJock> bddebian: you want to add a binary icon?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, the one posted for achilles
<LaserJock> where?
<LaserJock> I don't see a bug
<bddebian> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/achilles/+bug/36362
<crimsun> the uu{en,de}code method?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36362 in achilles "Missing .desktop file" [Minor,Confirmed] 
<bddebian> crimsun: probably
<LaserJock> bddebian: just a sec, if it has a svg then raphink a a great idea about creating the image in debian/rules or something like that
<bddebian> OK
<raphink> bddebian: http://www.raphink.info/adding-icons-to-debian-packages
<raphink> if that's what LaserJock meant ;)
<LaserJock> darn it, beat me to it
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> LaserJock: I know my blog ;)
<raphink> and my IRC client pings me when you drop my nick ;)
<LaserJock> bddebian: the other option (raphink, don't listen) would be to convert it to a .xpm or something like that
<raphink> :p
<crimsun> good ole xml
<bddebian> eeks
<raphink> crimsun: svg is xml too :)
<crimsun> raphink: that's why I said xml.
<raphink> ooh ok :)
<raphink> so you're rather supporting my method if I get you
<crimsun> raphink: I think it's useful
<raphink> ok
<raphink> good to hear
<raphink> as I had no comment on it
<LaserJock> raphink: hmm, btw I'm 72% nerd, 47% geek, and 55% dork :-)
<raphink> HEHE
<robotgeek> raphink: lot of people did that test later :)
<raphink> :)
<bddebian> Gaaah, freakin' idiot
<bluefoxicy> has anyone gotten fedora directory server and fedora managemet console on ubuntu?
<bluefoxicy> tritium:  do you know if anyone has gotten fedora directory server and fedora managemet console on ubuntu?
<tritium> bluefoxicy: no idea
<LaserJock> hi tritium!
<tritium> Hi LaserJock :)
<ToadZzZztool> 'night motus
<sladen> bluefoxicy: I think I saw Debian pcakages
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  for which?
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  I want a gcj native fedora management console and fedora directory server... :>
<bluefoxicy> bah the box behind me has no DVD drive
<LaserJock> hmm, pretty dead in here
<LaserJock> you would think people were working if you didn't know better :-)
<crimsun> [actually I am] 
<ajmitch> work?
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> novel concept
<Kyral> I'm recompiling KDE and just returned from helping someone recover GRUB
<bddebian> w00t..
* bddebian kicks qgis in the nuts
<LaserJock> heah, now
<bddebian> LaserJock: It works, thanks!
* LaserJock pats poor qgis on the head, "good little qgis"
* bddebian hands the achilles icon crap to LaserJock
<bddebian> ajmitch: Still here?
<ajmitch> define 'here'
<ajmitch> bddebian: did you have a question? :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: many thanks for fixing qgis
<bddebian> ajmitch: Yeah :-)  ygraph is FTBFSing on the buildd because it needs an autoconf/etc.  How do I do that properly to save it in the package?
<bddebian> LaserJock: NP
<ajmitch> either do it in debian/rules (and add build-deps)
<ajmitch> or do it before you build the source package\
<bddebian> ajmitch: That's the weird thing.  I did it before I uploaded my version??
<bddebian> So for MOTUScience Bugs, it's bddebian 20 something?  LaserJock ??  ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: if the changes aren't in the diff.gz, they didn't stick :)
<bddebian> Stephe!!!
<\sh> fast and last visit to my fellow motus :)
<bddebian> +n
<bddebian> Last visit???
<crimsun> how's sh doing?
<\sh> well, I have to decrease costs and shut down my server :)
<crimsun> (understandable)
<LaserJock> \sh: HELLOO!!!
<\sh> so, at this point, I have to get rid of my domains, and therefore my accounts on several portalsides will be closed as well...
<ajmitch> hey \sh
<ajmitch> good to see you're still alive & kicking :)
<ajmitch> where are you living at the moment?
<\sh> still in my flat, landlord is trying to chase me out, but I won't go :)
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> got any more offers for your domains?
<ajmitch> hoping for 100K euros? :)
<\sh> hehe....I don't hope anymore...and was no joke...last offer, was 50k but i don't think nowadays someone wants to buy this domain from me :)
<\sh> but sourcecode.de is the last domain, I will fight for, believe me
<\sh> ok, guys, I don't want to stress the line...
<crimsun> well, take care til next time
<bddebian> Take care \sh.  Let us (me?) know if I can do anything!
<\sh> I'm just here to tell you, that I want to remove my account from launchpad and give back my upload rights.
<ajmitch> I hope everything goes ok & you can keep eating
<bddebian> Nooo
* ajmitch would prefer that you didn't do that
<\sh> barry, no server, no mail, no nothing :) believe me, for me it's the right thing
<bddebian> OK man, but take care of yourself :-)
<\sh> btw...anyone heard something from ogra?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Any chance you would mind trying ygraph for me?
<ajmitch> like what? he was last in here a few hours ago
<bddebian> \sh: He's usually here
<LaserJock> \sh: we will be thinking about you dude, take care.
<\sh> ah ok...I wrote him a mail, so I hope he's answering
<\sh> ok..cu folks...have a good time with the dapper release :)
<\sh> so long
<bddebian> Damn :-(
<ajmitch> wouldn't surprise me if it's in a pile of 10K other unread messages
<ajmitch> ah man
<bddebian> LaserJock: Did you ever request a sync of tyvis?
<LaserJock> arggh, no
* bddebian whips out the pistolas
<LaserJock> I still need to figure out what exactly needs to be done
<LaserJock> is it a sync of tyvis or warped that we need?
<bddebian> Sorry, you're right, it's warped
<bddebian> Then need a rebuild of tyvis against that libwarped0
<LaserJock> hmm, the tyvis version isn't right I don't think
<LaserJock> ogra must have made a typo
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> man, these MOTUs are a sloppy bunch ;p
<bddebian> Hmm, I see xmakemol FTBFSs too
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> is there a prob with digikam's source package?  I could not get to dpkg-source -x it
<zakame> hello bddebian!
<zakame> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> yo!
<jsgotangco> why did he get a ! and none for me..you seen uninterested at all...
<jsgotangco> :)
<bddebian> heh
<zakame> hi jsgotangco!
<crimsun> LaserJock: yeah, I'd hate to see the packaging guide... :p
<LaserJock> yeah, full of policy violations. Typos all over the place, and lets not even talk about grammar ;-)
<zakame> lol
<bddebian> Ack, ajmitch is rubbing off on LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> if only
<LaserJock> brb, gotta clean some $1200USD mirrors without scratching them
<ajmitch> bddebian: is it so wrong to be right? ;)
<LaserJock> hmm, well I'm pretty bummed out about \sh. I should probably do the same thing though
<bddebian> ajmitch: Nope, that's why I love you honey :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: ???
<LaserJock> well, I definately need to readjust my Ubuntu work for Dapper+1
<bddebian> Nah, just wait until the last minute to do anything, like me :-)
<LaserJock> I've been neglecting my PhD and my wife and my house entirely too much since the first of the year
<LaserJock> but I'm so addicted to Ubuntu
<bddebian>  x11proto-gl-dev has replaced xlibmesa-gl-dev?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Heh, I know that feeling :-)
<bddebian> WTF is this: ???
<bddebian> #ifdef GL
<bddebian> #include <GL/GLwMDrawA.h>  /* OpenGL drawing area widget */
<bddebian> #endif /* GL */
<theCore> LaserJock: computers are indeed addictives, you just need to find the right balance between real life and computers ...
<LaserJock> yes, it is just a fight right now ;-)
<LaserJock> I think I can get away with 2 hrs a night of computer work
<LaserJock> instead of the ~ 10 hrs a day I do now :-)
<LaserJock> mostly my problem is this stupid IRC
<LaserJock> I love hanging out with you guys
<theCore> LaserJock: indeed, IRC is a time sink
<LaserJock> I start a project and then people start talking to me and I go chasing down all these other things and then the day is done and I didn't get done what I wanted to
<LaserJock> my wife says I have "issues" ;-)
<bddebian> Heh, welcome to the club man :-)
<bddebian> Hmm, I can't find any packages that contain GLwMDrawA.h
<theCore> bddebian: that's a wierd header
<wasabi> So I'm trying to come up with a file format... and need some sort of mime magic field in it. Thing is the file format is basically a signed GPG document.
<wasabi> Think it sounds safe to put some magic marker at the top?
<wasabi> humans have to fill it in =(
<bddebian> theCore: I agree
<theCore> bddebian: it's for Motif
<theCore> bddebian: lesstif2-dev I think
<bddebian> Aye, but I have that
<theCore> bddebian: then, maybe xlibmesa-gl-dev
<bddebian> That's been replaced by x11proto-gl-dev afaict
<LaserJock> bddebian: oh crap, Debian removed tyvis
<bddebian> Nice
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<bddebian> Ah xlibmesa-gl-dev used to provide it
<bddebian> Hmm
<LaserJock> bddebian: I'm not sure what that means for us. But apparently elmo removed it because it went 2 years with 2 RC bugs
<LaserJock> hi Gloubiboulga
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's annoying when that happens :)
<LaserJock> well, at least I know why I couldn't apt-cache showsrc it ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, bddebian hi :)
<LaserJock> yeah, I found 3 new package in Debian that we should have
<ajmitch> bddebian: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Transitions/GLU
<ajmitch> has the various GL* headers that got changed & what they were replaced with
<bddebian> Sheesh, I just can't keep up
<bddebian> Well that's apparently wrong because libgl-dev doesn't work
<ajmitch> the libgl-dev was for compatibility with debian, iirc
<ajmitch> but debian doesn't have it now :)
<ajmitch> X11R7 just got into sid yesterday
<calamari> hi
<ajmitch> hello
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<bddebian> Hi calamari, gnight calamari :-)
<calamari> I'm creating a package, and am a little confused by $DESTDIR  .. do I need to change my Makefile to use this?
<Gloubiboulga> gnight bddebian
<calamari> cya bddebian  :)
<Gloubiboulga> calamari, if $DESTDIR is not used, $(MAKE) install will try to install the files on your system, not in the debian/<package> dir
<calamari> right now I have a line "prefix = /usr/local" so I just want "prefix = $DESTDIR/usr/local" ?
<calamari> or should I not be using local either?
<Gloubiboulga> hmm, prefix should be '/usr'
<calamari> ok
<Gloubiboulga> and $DESTDIR is usually used in the 'install' rule iirc
<Gloubiboulga> with something like 'install file $(DESTDIR)/$(prefix)/'
<calamari> ahh, okay, thanks!
<Gloubiboulga> np :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: thank you, thank you , thank you
<calamari> Gloubiboulga: install: cannot create regular file `/home/calamari/programming/c/debian/delayedunlink-1.0.0/debian/delayedunlink//usr/lib/libdelayedunlink.so.1.0.0': No such file or directory
<calamari> I guess it's saying that I need to create /usr/lib ?
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<calamari> wonder why the install program doesn't do that for me
<Gloubiboulga> I think it doesn't use the autotools
<Gloubiboulga> the Makefile is certainly a custom one :)
<calamari> yeah I created the Makefile
<calamari> and I'm really bad at them :)
<Gloubiboulga> Autotools are really the best solution to create makefiles ;)
<calamari> yeah, I tried using it and failed
<calamari> it is also very complicated hehehe
<calamari> should I remove cron.d.ex ?
<Gloubiboulga> you can remove every .ex file you don't need
<dholbach> good morning motu world!
<Gloubiboulga> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
<calamari> hmm I guess I need to create a secret key
<calamari> hmm
<calamari> got that, now :)  dpkg-genchanges: error: badly formed line in files list file
<calamari> hehehe
<calamari> I'm assuming it means debian/files ?
<calamari> any ideas?
<calamari> would probably help if I pasted the whole line, sorry.. oops: dpkg-genchanges: error: badly formed line in files list file, line 1
<calamari> debian/files contains only one line: delayedunlink_1.0.0-0ubuntu1_i386.deb Base System optional
<dholbach> calamari: what did you do before?
<calamari> dholbach: I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean
<dholbach> what lead to this message
<dholbach> debian/files should be autogenerated, so nothing to worry about
<calamari> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<dholbach> something else must have gone wrong beforehand
<dholbach> can you upload that package source package somehere?
<calamari> http://kidsquid.com/files/ubuntu/delayedunlink-1.0.0.tar.gz
<dholbach> can't find that host
<dholbach> ah now it works
<dholbach> um
<dholbach> there is no debian/ directory
<calamari> oh, I misunderstood what you wanted
<calamari> that was the original source
<dholbach> right
<calamari> hmm actually maybe it was unimportant.. the deb archive was created
<calamari> didn't notice that before now
<dholbach> ah ok
<calamari> uploaded it here http://68.105.135.51:1023/debian.tar.gz
<dholbach> can'T connect
<Toadstool> heya motus
<dholbach> calamari: ok, works now
<dholbach> hey Toadstool
<calamari> dholbach: hmm weird.. restarted apache.,. any better now?
<Toadstool> hi dholbach
<calamari> well, the deb works in any case.. so I'm unconcerned :)
<calamari> Gloubiboulga, dholbach: thanks a lot for your help! :)
<Gloubiboulga> calamari, np :)
<dholbach> calamari: you can remove all the .ex stuff and substvars/files - that's all not needed
<calamari> dholbach: oic.. does it all get included in the deb?
<dholbach> no, but it's easier to get an overview without them :)
<dholbach> the .ex are examples you don't need, substvars and files are generated during the build
<dholbach> and the problem you faced was the Section you set in debian/control
<dholbach> if you change "Base System" to "devel" (or whatever might fit and is a section), it works :)
<calamari> where can I announce this package?
<LaserJock> dholbach: have you uploaded ubuntu-docs yet? I just made a commit that should go in
<dholbach> LaserJock: no, I didn't
<dholbach> i'm wading through myriads of bug mails atm
<LaserJock> dholbach: good, for me anyway ;-)
<dholbach> so take your time whatever you're going to fix
<dholbach> i'll do it later (in my evening)
<dholbach> so ~10h
<LaserJock> well, I've got to go to bed so I'm done I think
<LaserJock> good night
<magnon> aaah. my bank closes its net bank during easter. *puzzle*
<dholbach> magnon: HEY!
<magnon> hey :)
<dholbach> magnon: give the poor computers a rest too :-P
<magnon> apparently they're making a new system
<magnon> but normal people have a stage and prod
<dholbach> ah yeah... the big transitions in companies are always around easter
<magnon> hm. internal dns servers are going down...
<zakame> hi al
<Gloubiboulga> morning zakame
<zakame> hello Gloubiboulga
<Yagisan> ajmitch: around ?
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> what's with malone 39242 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39242 in arson "arson will not update or remove using apt error" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39242
<zakame> it probably needs a semi-static postinst that would create the iconcache for /usr/share/icons/locolor/ ... what do you think? =)
<zakame> hi jpatrick
<jpatrick> hi zakame
<Yagisan> G'day zakame
<zakame> hello Yagisan
<Yagisan> zakame: how have you been ? I've been playing with GCC 4.1 and am trying to work out why I get this error: /usr/lib/deng/libdropengl.so.0: undefined symbol: __stack_chk_fail_local.
<zakame> here committing arson ;-)
<zakame> gaah only on gcc 4.1 ?
<Yagisan> zakame: yep. the -fstack-protector flag
<Yagisan> zakame: and I know I included the libssp-dev in the build-deps too
<zakame> hmm, yet another mystery to solve :)
<zakame> dholbach: ping
<zakame> oh crap I'm late :(
<zakame> bbl! :D
<dholbach> zakame: pong
<zakame> dholbach: I've seem to hit a snag with arson in malone 39242
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39242 in arson "arson will not update or remove using apt error" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39242
<zakame> bbl anyhow, I'm late for a meeting :(
<dholbach> zakame: ok... we should rebuild it and check if that still happens
<dholbach> zakame: i'll do that - have fun in the meeting
<zakame> thanks! :D
* zakame hugs dholbach 
<freeflying> dholbach: I wanna improve my package in universe , after change it , how shall do
<dholbach> freeflying: there's always room for improvement - what are you up to? anything specific in mind? anything that's wrong with it?
<freeflying> dholbach: I just wanna rewrite the description for more detail
<dholbach> freeflying: sounds good
<dholbach> freeflying: you want to know how to do that?
<freeflying> dholbach: after rewrite , what shall I do ?
<dholbach> you mean apart from:   apt-get source <package>; cd <package>*; vim debian/control; dch -i -Ddapper; debuild -S  ?
<freeflying> dholbach: y
<dholbach> that's all you need to do
<freeflying> dholbach: can I upload it ?
<jpatrick> freeflying: should be able to if you're in ubuntu-devel
<freeflying> jpatrick: thx
<ajmitch> evening
<Gloubiboulga> hi ajmitch
<jpatrick> afternoon
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch :)
<Mithrandir> ajmitch, Hobbsee :-)
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir :)
<ajmitch> morning Mithrandir, how's it going?
<Mithrandir> slowly, trying to weed out some live cd bugs.
<kelmo> hi people, any madwifi users in the house?
<Mithrandir> wondering why usplash seems to not pick up the timeout command from casper.
<carthik> I filed a bug on grub-splashimages. Now I see that in Debian, the bug has been fixed. Will the ubuntu grub-splashimages be updated with the changes in the debian package before Dapper is out?
<TheMuso> c
<zul> heylo
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello Hobbsee
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
<balachmar> Hi people, I am thinking about really doing something for the ubuntu community and I have read that this is the place where I could help getting new software available for ubuntu
<Hobbsee> argh!
* Hobbsee is jumped on
* Hobbsee sees flashes of red everywhere
<Tm_T> :o
<Tm_T> Hobbsee: hello there
<Hobbsee> hi Tm_T
<Tm_T> what's up
<balachmar> But since I don't have any experience with packaging I am wondering how I could learn to do so and with which program to start :)
<Hobbsee> not a lot - i'm thinking that it must be the timezoen for ESL speakers though...
<balachmar> ESL speakers?
<Tm_T> :)
<balachmar> what are ESL speakers?
<StevenK> Eastern Seaboard .... ?
<jamessan> english as a second language
<StevenK> Apparently, I was way off
<jamessan> at least that's what I always thought it meant  *shrug*
<balachmar> Well, since the UK is almost in the same timezone as I am... I think there will be some EFL speakers around as well :)
<Hobbsee> oh, sorry...english as a second language, yeah
<Hobbsee> the ones that have such mangled grammar that makes them not understandable are the ones in particular that make it hard
<balachmar> You mean me?
<jamessan> quite frequently, ESL speakers speak better English than EFL
<Hobbsee> balachmar: no, not at all...was referring to a few people in #kubuntu
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<Se7h> morning all
<bddebian> Heya Se7h, Yagisan
<tseng> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<bddebian> Ah meeting time.. :-(
<iegary> hi there... seeing as eric3 is broken, any possibility of eric providing an eric3 transitional package, and removing the eric3 source package from universe? I filed bug #39280 suggesting this...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39280 in eric "eric3 should be a transitional package, requiring eric" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39280
<Yagisan> G'day bddebian
* Yagisan off to bed
<trappist> a bug on linux-restricted-modules should be filed against which source package?
<zul> linux-restricted-modules
<trappist> there is no such source package in malone - it's broken up by version.  I assume that means I should choose 2.6.15 for dapper.
<tritium> Morning, bddebian.
<Hobbsee> night all...
* Hobbsee yawns, and contemplates falling asleep on the keyboard
<Firefox_8> http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/iclk?sa=l&num=0&client=ca-ref-pub-9539129227107275&adurl=http://services.google.com/toolbar/firefox%3Fai%3DBwJ4mjRI9RL2hBaSg-QG8lrT_COmZ0hT5g7LRAcWNtwEAEAEgzsTsBUDIEkiiOVCD49ECoAG1lcj9A7IBD2JyZWFrLjI3NW1iLmNvbcgBAtoBKmh0dHA6Ly9icmVhay4yNzVtYi5jb20vYWRtaW4ucGhwP29wPXVwbG9hZIACAZUCJFM-Cg&ai=BIH_JjRI9RL2hBaSg-QG8lrT_COmZ0hT5g7LRAcWNtwEAEAEgzsTsBUDIEkiiOVCh1qyP_v____8BoAG1lcj9A7IBD2JyZWFrLjI
<Hobbsee> okay then...
* Riddell reports
<trappist> next question: the problem is a version mismatch between linux-restricted-modules and nvidia-glx, causing X to not start.  which package to file the bug on?
* Hobbsee bans the spammer in #ubuntu.  grr.
* BearPerson chases the spammer
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> go BearPerson go!
<BearPerson> hmm... I'm out of shape...
* BearPerson waves
* trappist coughs
<LaserJock> morning MOTU world!
<lucas> s/morning/evening/
<truz24> lol
<truz24> he must be on the west coast :-)
<LaserJock> truz24: not all the way west coast, I'm still 15 miles from California ;-)
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hiya bddebian
<LaserJock> anybody know if you can update a pbuilder by doing pbuilder update --distribution <newdistro> --override-config ?
<bddebian> Not without updating sources.list and such I don't think
<bddebian> LaserJock: Looks like saoimage may have been dropped from Debian also?
<LaserJock> bddebian: looks like it was replaced with saods9
<LaserJock> bddebian: do you have a Ubuntu box you could test some pbuilder stuff for me? or are you at work?
<bddebian> I'm at work but I might be able to test some stuff
<LaserJock> bddebian: I just wonder if the line above works
<LaserJock> bddebian: I think it might, basically womble was showing me how you never have to touch /etc/pbuilderrc or edit any config files
<bddebian> hmm
<LaserJock> and that would dramatically reduce the complexity of the Pbuilder Howto
<Tonio_> hello all ;)
<jpatrick> hi Tonio_
<LaserJock> hi Tonio_ and jpatrick
<bddebian> Heya Tonio_
<LaserJock> bddebian: I'm going to file a bug to get tyvis and saoimage removed from Dapper
<bddebian> LaserJock: OK, cool.  Are you going to update the bugs?
* bddebian is LaserJock 's slave now :-)
<LaserJock> heh, not exactly a slave, but close :p
<LaserJock> yeah, I'll take care of the bugs
<bddebian> 'bout time you did SOMETHING.. ;-P
<LaserJock> hehe, I got you to do all the work didn't I :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: creating a breezy pbuilder now, give me a few :-)
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> bddebian: btw, what URL have you been using to look at MOTU Science bugs?
<bddebian> LaserJock: The one you gave me :-)   https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/+assignedbugs
<LaserJock> bddebian: muahaha, and you thought you were done
<LaserJock> try out https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/+subscribedbugs
<bddebian> Oh, I AM done ;-P
<truz24> LaserJock, what is your launchpad page?
<bddebian> Ack, WTF d00d? :-)
<LaserJock> truz24: https://launchpad.net/people/mantha/
* bddebian hasn't updated his wiki page in eons
<LaserJock> bddebian: and if you feel like you have got a lot of time you could run through https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/+packagebugs
<LaserJock> but they should all be in one of the other two
<truz24> LaserJock, development wise, where is there a strong need for help ?
<LaserJock> everywhere ;-)
<truz24> I'm looking for an entry point to get started :-)
<LaserJock> well, right now we are in bug fix mode
<truz24> how many hours do you find yourself working on the ubuntu project?
<bddebian> Waay too many :-)
<jpatrick> many
<LaserJock> way way too many ;-)
<LaserJock> the problem is that it is incredibly addictive
<jpatrick> true
<truz24> yes
<truz24> You have a regular full time position tho right?
<LaserJock> I'm a grad student
<truz24> That should be even worse then :-)
<truz24> With the research you're having to do.
<truz24> I guess I'm looking for how many hours are expected from someone who has a regular 40 hour development work week.
<LaserJock> truz24: well, in there isn't an "expected" you just do what you can
<bddebian> truz24: Try a 40+ hour work week, a wife, and three kids :-)
<truz24> :-)
<truz24> Get a motorcycle, that will relieve some stress ;-)
<bddebian> If I'm inside my pbuilder, how can I verify that it's breezy/dapper?
<bddebian> truz24: As I said, I have a wife.  That isn't allowed.. ;-)
<bddebian> Hello pef
<truz24> :-)
<pef> bddebian: hello :] 
<LaserJock> bddebian: hmm, good question
<LaserJock> I would guess if you did a pbuilder update or something you could see when it is doing the apt-get update
<bddebian> OK, it's breezy
<bddebian> Now I'll try to update your way :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Damn, you were right about pbuilder.  Nice
<LaserJock> bddebian: really? cool
<LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
<dholbach> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> dholbach: do I have time for a last minut commit on  ubuntu-docs?
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> take your time
<bddebian> How stupid is this crap:
<bddebian>  survex-aven depends on survex (= 1.0.39); however:
<bddebian>   Version of survex on system is 1.0.39ubuntu1.
<dholbach> going to read a bit - will do an upload in an hour or two
<dholbach> so consider me "away" now :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: womble has rocked my pbuilder world so I need to adjust something
<Yagisan> bddebian: got to love those
<bddebian> No, I don't :-)
<Yagisan> bddebian: at least that is easily fixable
<Yagisan> bddebian: I have no idea why I get this error "/usr/lib/deng/libdropengl.so.0: undefined symbol: __stack_chk_fail_local" when I'm sure I included the lib it is in.
<bddebian> Yagisan: At what point are you getting that error?
<Yagisan> bddebian: runtime
<Yagisan> bddebian: it should be using libssp from gcc-4.1
<Yagisan> bddebian: and the main runtime *is* linked, uit the support libs it builds don't seem to be :(
<Yagisan> s/uit/but
<bddebian> Hmmm
<azeem> Yagisan: two underscores look fishy
<bddebian> Yagisan: Do:  objdump -T /usr/lib/libssp.so |grep stack_chk_fail_local
<Yagisan> bddebian: it's lib32, but anyway, no output
<Yagisan> bddebian: it does have "00000cc0 g    DF .text  00000027  LIBSSP_1.0  __stack_chk_fail" however
<G0SUB_> are there any emacs gtk+xft packages for dapper?
<Yagisan> bddebian: Is it likely I stuffed up ?
<azeem> Yagisan: did you write libdropengl yourself
<azeem> ?
<Yagisan> azeem: nope, I just packaged the game it is part of
<bddebian> Yagisan: How could you have done that?
<Yagisan> bddebian: packaging mistake ?
<azeem> Yagisan: my first bet is that libdropengl should not be using stuff with __ in the beginning and _local at the end
<Yagisan> azeem: that appears to be droped in by gcc-4.1
<Yagisan> azeem: yeah, that is gcc. the word local isn't in any of the 4 .c files that make up libdropengl
<azeem> but they call __stack stuff?
<Yagisan> azeem: only two occurrences of the word stack, and that is for a check for opengl stack over and underflow.
<LaserJock> what is a good description of pbuilders base.tgz
<azeem> ok, no idea then, sorry
<LaserJock> "compressed environment"?
<Yagisan> azeem: that's ok. Thanks for your help
<Yagisan> bddebian: and thank you too
<bddebian> NP
<bddebian> Sorry I don't know more :-(
<Yagisan> bddebian: no need to be sorry, I'm just getting bitten in the arse my new gcc features
<Yagisan> s/my/by
<LaserJock> bddebian: does "compressed environment" sound ok for a description of pbuilders base.tgz?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah
<Yagisan> LaserJock: seems fine, perhaps "compressed build environment" depending on context
<LaserJock> Yagisan: hmm, that does sound better
<Yagisan> azeem: bddebian: I think I know what the problem is. Ubuntu's glibc doesn't have ssp support, so I need to manually specify alternate linking in my rules file. (or I could be completely wrong, I'll built it and see)
<bddebian> Nice
<Yagisan> bddebian: I get this working, then I can start submitting bugs + patches for a more secure ubuntu (and perhaps justify myself for ubuntu membership)
<bddebian> Yagisan: Great
<jabra> can I request a module for packaging
<jabra> nmap::parser
<jabra> really useful module that should be in ubuntu
<crimsun> jabra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<jabra> k
<infinito> has anyone a minute to review this?? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2267
<Yagisan> bddebian: seems I was wrong :(
<bddebian> Yagisan: What happened?
<Yagisan> bddebian: no change at all
<bddebian> Ugh
<jabra> crimsun: ok added
<jabra> let me know if you would like help testing as I have a few things to test it
<Yagisan> bddebian: This is my results page for my project http://eyagi.bpa.nu/eyagi/our-research/technologies/e-yagi-security-enhanced-linux I've just listed that app as failed for now (until I work out how to fix it)
<tseng>     * The first step to enabling support for this feature is to add libssp0-dev to the list of build dependencies.
<tseng> gross :<
<tseng> i guess it would be build-essential
<Yagisan> tseng: well, it's not in libc for ubuntu
<tseng> Yagisan: yeah, it would be nice to be pluggable
<tseng> i am done arguing with a raving pappy- over the pros and cons of the libssp
<tseng> :)
<Yagisan> tseng: while I prefer it to be in libc, if at the moment I need libssp0-dev (part of gcc) for a proof of concept, so be it
<bddebian> infinito: Is this a gui app?
<Yagisan> tseng: have a favorite game to test it with ?
<cbx33> evenin all
<bddebian> Heya cbx33
<Yagisan> G'day cbx33
<cbx33> hi Yagisan
<cbx33> bddebian, this Iconcache thingamajig
<cbx33> i see you've participated
<bddebian> Well I've tried :-)
<cbx33> what needs to be added to the debian/rules?
<cbx33> is it worth me having a look
<cbx33> I know I'm not an ubuntu-motu
<cbx33> I may be able to work on a few pacakges
<bddebian> cbx33: Unfortunately probably not.  It's pretty much a quick one-line change and an upload
<jpatrick> can someone poke http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2272 ?
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> sorry bddebian
<cbx33> bddebian, wondering if you could give me someinput on a fix
<bddebian> cbx33: Don't be sorry
<cbx33> there is a line in a patch that has been added in the debian/patchs folder
<cbx33> but i need to patch it if you know what i mean
<bddebian> Yes
<cbx33> i can't edit the patch
<cbx33> so do i need to make another path
<cbx33> patch
<bddebian> Just a line change or adding another line?
<cbx33> that patches the patch
<cbx33> it's editing a line that was edited in the previous patch already
<infinito> bddebian: is a gnome applet
<cbx33> any ideas?
<cbx33> as I'm unsure what the proper procedure is here
<bddebian> infinito: OK
<bddebian> cbx33: Give me a sec
<cbx33> np
<bddebian> jpatrick: building now
<cbx33> weh nyou have a sec
<jpatrick> bddebian: cool
<LaserJock> cbx33: you can sort of edit the patch
<cbx33> LaserJock, I tried it and it didn't work
<bddebian> cbx33: Is it a totally different line, or just changing a line already in the patch?
<LaserJock> cbx33: if you cp the source into a tmp dir and then apply the patch, and then make your changes and recreate the patch
<cbx33> LaserJock, that's what I was thinking
<cbx33> yesterday, and i need to confirm this.... i tried creating the Source pacakge with no modification and it bombed out compolaing about not being able to apply the patch
<cbx33> I'll double check it now
<cbx33> LaserJock, thanks for the help with the chroot problem yesterday...cleared it right up
<cbx33> was wondering if you wanted to add that to your docs
<cbx33> about the LC_ALL=C
<cbx33> cos that drove me nuts :p
<dholbach> night guys
<dholbach> see you at the hug day tomorrow
<cbx33> nn dholbach
<jpatrick> dholbach: night
<infinito> bddebian: thanks for reviewing
<LaserJock> cya dholbach, I'll try to make it as much as possible
<dholbach> night cbx33, LaserJock, jpatrick
<dholbach> rock on!
<cbx33> rock on dholbach
* cbx33 makes the rock sign :p
<cbx33> we need an ubunutu sign :p
<dholbach> woohoo!
<dholbach> *wave*
<cbx33> o/
<cbx33> brb
<LaserJock> I just start playing my "Princes of the Universe" .ogg ;-)
<infinito> how many reviews need a pkg to get uploaded?
<jpatrick> two
<mitsuhiko> ogra: ping
<jpatrick> bddebian: any word?
<infinito> and is it possible to get into dapper a pkg in revu?
<jpatrick> until tomorrow
<jpatrick> wb cbx33
<cbx33> thanky
<infinito> jpatrick: until tomorrow?
<cbx33> what do i need to make man scrollable...it's just acting like more at the moment
<cbx33> vi possibly?
<jpatrick> infinito: i think
<bddebian> jpatrick: Is mjpegtools in multiverse?
<jpatrick> bddebian: er, yes
<infinito> so i think im out of luck :(
<bddebian> Gah, lame, hang on
<cbx33> what options do we use when creating a patch here?
<infinito> if a pkg on revu is accepted and uploaded, when ther's a new upstream version, should it be uploaded to revu again?
<tseng> Yagisan: i really dont like the idea of changing every source package, unless the goal is to only cover a handful of daemons
<tseng> Yagisan: but fair enough for testing
<tseng> Yagisan: no games here :)
<bddebian> cbx33: For dpatch, use dpatch-edit-patch <name of your patch>
<bddebian> cbx33: If it is a dpatch you could even try dpatch-edit-patch <name of broken patch> ?
<Yagisan> tseng: for testing I'll do it on a package by package basis to see what works. It would be nice to build with ssp on by default though
<Yagisan> tseng: assuming minimal breakage
<tseng> yeah
<slomo> cbx33: install less and man is scrollable :)
<tseng> i think in gentoo i had a list of stuff that was notably broken
<cbx33> ah swat i thought
<cbx33> thanx slomo
<tseng> but i deleted that wiki
<tseng> Yagisan: i am afraid of what kind of disaster id be walking into if i joined #gentoo-hardened-dev to ask about it
<bddebian> Sheesh jpatrick, this is taking forever :-)
<Yagisan> tseng: pity. I thought I'd try a few games that could run as servers, and some common utils first
<jpatrick> bddebian: I too was suprised
<Yagisan> tseng: unfortunately the first game I tried, needs more work then expected
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
<Kyral> Meh meh MEH!!!
<Kyral> Damn the NVidia Drivers to HELL
<LaserJock> heh, what vesa not good enough for you?
<Kyral> No, they are causing instability in my system
<Kyral> and right now I'm underclocked due to a heatwave
<Yagisan> of course, it's Nvidia, that's what it is supposed to do
<LaserJock> hmm, I just ssh and don't worry about all that silly X stuff
<hub> Kyral: that's why I won't buy nVidia
<Yagisan> Kyral: using the repo or upstream ?
<LaserJock> hub: what would you buy?
<Kyral> Yagisan: Oh, I'm on ArchLinux :P
<hub> LaserJock: I have an Intel in my laptop
<Yagisan> hub: never used new ati then have you ?
<Kyral> but on Kubuntu the problem persisted
<hub> old Radeon with the free driver
<hub> Yagisan: ATI is as much evil
<Yagisan> hub: I said new for a reason
<hub> binary drivers are Evil
<Kyral> Do the ATI Free apply to the newer cards?
<LaserJock> I've never had any problems with my nvidia cards
<hub> LaserJock: is the driver available for PowerPC to run on a Mac with Linux?
<Yagisan> Kyral: no, (well some experimental support IIRC)
<hub> the latest ATI don't even have a binary shit for linux
<hub> because ATI do not care
<LaserJock> hub: hmm? I've never run linux on a mac
<hub> LaserJock: I have for a long time
<hub> LaserJock: fortunately I had a Rage128 in it
<LaserJock> my iMac has a x1600 but I haven't tested it out or anything
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<Yagisan> morning ajmitch
<hub> LaserJock: X1600 does not have a Linux driver at all
<LaserJock> hub: exactly, so if I *could* boot linux on this thing I wouldn't much fun with X
<Kyral> grrr
<Kyral> I think my VidCard is going
<Yagisan> Kyral: not fun
<jpatrick> bddebian: you can just say yes
<Kyral> This damn thing keeps seizing up anytime I enable ANY kinda of Acceleration
<Yagisan> Kyral: I had a GFMX440 die in a heatwave here
<bddebian> jpatrick: ?
<Yagisan> Kyral: renderaccel turned on ?
<Kyral> No
<Kyral> Turned off
<Kyral> hell I was just using NV with DRI
<jpatrick> bddebian: for the package
<Yagisan> Kyral: ok. that eliminates that major source of problems
<Kyral> Turning it on or off?
<Yagisan> Kyral: you get dri with nv ?
<Kyral> dunno
<Yagisan> Kyral: turning it off
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> I do like Arch's idea
<Kyral> they provide a Daemon that checks at boot to see if the NVidia driver has been compiled for the current Kernel and if it hasn't it compiles it on the fly
<bddebian> jpatrick: Ah
* Yagisan eating. bbl
<jpatrick> bddebian: thanks
<bddebian> Sheesh, cernlib is a pig
<LaserJock> bddebian: heh, glad I don't have to do it then ;-)
* bddebian hands it off to LaserJock
<LaserJock> noooooo
<bddebian> Speaking of which, there is a WAY newer version of dx in Debian
<crimsun> heh, beta freeze is in 3 hours, so... no.
<bddebian> nooooo
<jpatrick> does it affect universe too?
<crimsun> yes
<LaserJock> what freeze?
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> I wouldn't think beta freeze would affect Universe
<LaserJock> FF didn't seem to
<crimsun> eh, both UVF and FF applied. We just were a bit more slack.
<LaserJock> FF didn't according to mdz
<LaserJock> or my reading of mdz ;-)
* bddebian hides
<LaserJock> I honestly have no idea what applies and what doesn't anymore. We *really* have to fix that for Dapper+1
<crimsun> UVF and FF were supposed to apply to universe just as stringently. What actually ended up happening...
<crimsun> in any case, I'm deferring thinking about new ones until dapper+1, because we only have a month til this whole shebang is released, so bugsquashing it is
<LaserJock> +1
<LaserJock> I think we just might want to be a little more consistent next time ;-)
<crimsun> certainly.
<crimsun> the whole n-m and wpasupplicant -> main is a bit sour in my mouth, but I realise its relative importance to many users.
<bddebian> Yeah but something like dx has no rdepends
<bddebian> :-)
<crimsun> bddebian: you get the tar and feathering when it breaks, then :p
<bddebian> Well it's currently FTBFS so what could be the issue? :-)
<crimsun> it does?
<crimsun> oh, probably !386
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> bddebian: are you talking about the same dx I am?
<crimsun> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dx/1:4.3.2-7   <--
<crimsun> (unless you mean from Debian, probably?)
<jouni__m> How about adding ffmpeg2theora to dapper? It could export ogg theora packed video from kino (or from command line) I installed it from debian unstable. It seems to work well.
<bddebian> crimsun: Yes.
<crimsun> jouni__m: we're way past FF.
<LaserJock> bddebian: heh, just wait for Debian to remove it, that seems to be solving our problems today ;p
<bddebian> LaserJock: Heh, no kidding :-)
<bddebian> crimsun: I may have lied..
<bddebian> Oh well, gotta head home, later gang
<incon> autoconf should come with /usr/share/libtool/install.sh ?
<azeem> incon: automake ships that, AFAIK
<azeem> well, install.sh in general
<incon> well when a run autoconf it doesnt have a sad now
<incon> azeem: thank you
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-18
<LaserJock> dang it, how do you get ^M to turn into a newline
<crimsun> interactively, or?
<JustinLynn> slomo> I've been testing your package and so far it's been great I've built several applications and banshee plugins with it. Absolutely no complaints or apparent bugs :)
<Toadstool> 'night
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> good day sir
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi bddebian and ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> bddebian: was saoimage FTBS?
<bddebian> Yep
<bddebian> And gone from Debian
<LaserJock> k
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> bddebian: ok, I filed bugs for tyvis and saoimage
<bddebian> LaserJock_away: Rock on d00d
<bddebian> OK, damnit, how can adding a desktop file and a couple dh_install commands screw up dh_shlibdeps?
<crimsun> bddebian: does it really do cp /usr/lib/dx/bin/dx [..] ?
<bddebian> The rules file is a mess
<bddebian> I'm rebuilding currently so I'll let you know :-)
<crimsun> bddebian: ok. That source file looks suspiciously absolute and not relative to the root of the extracted source.
<bddebian> crimsun: ?
<bddebian> Damn cernlib is hideous too
<crimsun> if debian/rules actually executes a cp /some/absolute/path instead of cp $(pwd)/relative/path, ...
<bddebian> Ahh
<bddebian> crimsun: Still around?
<crimsun> bddebian: you caught me right before I suspended to get groceries
<bddebian> Ah, go ahead
<crimsun> k, back in a bit.
<bddebian> ok
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<crimsun> 'night
<dholbach> HAPPY HUG DAY!
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hug day already hey?
<Hobbsee> i thought it would be on my saturday...
<dholbach> nah... when we realized friday would be "easter" and everybody would be busy having fun with their family, we moved to thursday :)
<Hobbsee> ah...that's a point...
<dholbach> yeah :)
<dholbach> so,,, happy hug day! :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee has found a bug with a newer version of kpowersave that i'm testing out - does that count?
<dholbach> uhhhh, the one that got motu-uvf approval?
<Hobbsee> dunno, i didnt know it was going for UVF approval
* Hobbsee will have to go look
<dholbach> 0.5.2 -> 0.6.0
<Hobbsee> yeah, 0.6.0 - there you go...
<dholbach> Hobbsee: can you follow up on the bug report (bug 39221)? (if it's 'just a bug' we have to report it upstream immediately - if it makes the world unhappy, we have to think twice about updating)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39221 in kpowersave "UVF exception 0.5.2 -> 0.6.0" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39221
<Hobbsee> dholbach: can i follow it up?  how do you mean?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: just write about the problem you see with the new version
<Hobbsee> dholbach: package was fine with the old kernel, i'll have to test agian with the new one...
<dholbach> ah ok
<Hobbsee> but i'll check on it, yeah
<dholbach> because you said, you found a bug
<Hobbsee> yeah, i did.  not sure yet if that's related to acpi or kpowersave though
* Hobbsee vanishes into thin air, to test...
<dholbach> Hobbsee: ah ok
<Unfrgiven> hi all
<dholbach> hey Unfrgiven! happy hug day!
<Unfrgiven> oh yeah completely forgot about that!
<Hobbsee> interesting...
<Unfrgiven> does the UVF apply to universe as well??
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: yes
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: bummer
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> you can write an exception, if you like...
<Unfrgiven> i might have to raise an exception. im packaging madwifi-ng drivers atm
<Unfrgiven> almost done.
<Unfrgiven> arent the new nvidia drivers just great? suspend rocks!
* Hobbsee grabs the latest version of ndiswrapper
<root__> oh shit...
* Hobbsee is now getting an error 15 from grub, which stops her system from booting!
<Hobbsee> dunno exactly what i did, but it clearly wasnt good!
* Hobbsee cries.  loudly.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: oh... how did that happen?
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: did you install something new? did you fiddle with the grub conf files?
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: could it be a hardware problem?
<Hobbsee> ah...
<Hobbsee> well i did a remove ndiswrapper*
<Hobbsee> and then rebooted eventually g
<Hobbsee> getting a grub error 15
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: that shouldn't cause an error.
<Hobbsee> it shouldnt, no
<Hobbsee> can someone tell me what a grub error 15 is please, and how i fix it?
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: ive just googled it.
<Hobbsee> i can only have one window open at a time, so i'm kinda helpless
<Unfrgiven> apparently it means that grub can't find your kernel
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: thank's very much
<Hobbsee> yeah, i'd gotten that much...it cant find any of them...
* Hobbsee is booted into a recovery thingo, of the latest kernel
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: wait, so you can boot into ur recovery kernel but not your normal one?
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: yes
<Hobbsee> and then can do startx, which is where i am now
<Hobbsee> yes, as root (eek!)
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: aight no problems. reboot and edit the recovery line. remove the parameter that says single
<Unfrgiven> that should get you into your normal boot
<Hobbsee> remove the parameter that says single?
<Lure> Hobbsee: there are other reports with error 15 on boot in forums
<Hobbsee> Lure: i'll bet there are - but i cant get to any :P
<Unfrgiven> yeah thats the one
<Hobbsee> i cant STFW if i can only have one window open at a time hehe!
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: that will boot you into your mornal environment
<Unfrgiven> and then you can debug the problem once you are in your normal env
* Hobbsee goes to look in /boot/grub/menu.lst
<Lure> can you post menu.lstr
<Lure> (pastebin)
<Hobbsee> Lure: no, i dont have a script to pastebin
<Hobbsee> yes, it's frustrating - it's frustrating here too
<dholbach> in the recovery thingie, you could try to run      update-grub
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: dont remove the single parameter in your grub/menu.lst
<dholbach> and see what happens
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: what is the difference between the recovery kernel conf and your normal kernel conf in grub/menu.lst?
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: i thought you just said to remove it
<Hobbsee> ah, it's got "quiet splash" in the normal one or something...
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: i mean that you should remove it when you are booting. not change the files
<Hobbsee> dholbach: that seemed to do something, i'll see...
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: grub allows you to edit your boot parameters when you are booting
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: ah ok, it reverted the changes anyway with update-grub
<dholbach> do you have /Boot on a separate partition that is full?
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: press "e" when grub shows you the menu
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: true...i was being lazy, still signed in here
<Hobbsee> yeah, i know where you mean
<Hobbsee> dholbach: no, /boot's not on a separate partition
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: hehe typical software developer, lazy :P
* Hobbsee suspects that in removing some ndiswrapper stuff, she removed some kernel stuff too
<Hobbsee> anyway, back in a min, will try those bits...
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: so you are saying that the recovery image and normal image are the same?
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: because if they are using the same image then i cant see how the recovery is working but normal isnt
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: recovery has single in the parameters, normal has quiet, splash in the parameters
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: is the kernel image the same for both?
<Hobbsee> i reverted the changes on the menu.lst when i ran update-grub
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: yes, everythign else is the same
<Hobbsee> back in a min...
<Hobbsee> hmmm...how to get out...
<Hobbsee> oh yes...
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: yay!
<Hobbsee> dholbach: Unfrgiven ok...well...
<Hobbsee> that was interesting...
<Hobbsee> update grub didnt work, removing the single line manually did
<Hobbsee> and i can have more than one window open at a time now - yay!
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: removing the single is not the right long term solution
<Hobbsee_> okay...
<Hobbsee> this gets weirder and weirder...
<Unfrgiven> im off all... cya
<Hobbsee> dholbach: any idea what the savedefault line does in the kernel?
<Hobbsee> er, menu.list?
<Hobbsee> man grub didnt show much...
<Lure> Hobbsee: it remebers last selected option that was booted and offers it as default
<Lure> only the kernels with savedefault qualify
<Lure> but you also need to change default to "saved" or simlar instead of explicit number (to use it)
<Hobbsee> Lure: interesting.  so...that would be giving an error 15 how?
<Hobbsee> well, how does one change it?
<Lure> maybe... not sure that this could have such big side effect, but I have not used it
<Hobbsee> presumably the last setting got corrupted somehow, or something?
<Lure> but I think this is onlt proposed default (instead of hardcoded item list number)
<Lure> you may want to comment out savedefault in the problematic kernel and see if it helps
<Lure> can you post your menu.lst to pastebin?
<Hobbsee> Lure: it's already there, i'll find the link...
<Hobbsee> Lure: http://pastebin.com/657122
<Hobbsee> i have a new thing there, a copy of the first one, identical to the first one, - the save default line, and it works perfectly...
<Lure> interesting... maybe you should file the bug...
<Hobbsee> Lure: under what?
<Lure> grub
<Hobbsee> ahhh...
<Lure> Hobbsee: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=151222&page=6&highlight=kpowersave
<Lure> reinstalling grub helped for people... - maybe powersave is doing something with grub...
* Hobbsee suspects this is the case
<Hobbsee> it's definetly something to do with savedefault though...
<Hobbsee> heh, you beat me to it Lure!
<Lure> ;-)
<cbx33> hey all
<Lure> Hobbsee: it may be powersave - see /etc/powersave/sleep and try changing BOOT_LOADER="OTHER"
<Lure> it may be that powersave does something to grub before suspend (that does not work on Ubuntu)
<Lure> will look into powersave code what this option does
* Lure has to run - more time in 8 hours or so...
<Hobbsee> okay, thanks anyway
<cbx33> i have a package here, where the source and binary packages seem to differ
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> hmmmm
<cbx33> how do apply all dpatches to the current source
<cbx33> hmmm
<dholbach> dpatch apply-all
* Hobbsee waves again to dholbach 
<Hobbsee> oh yes, bug report...yes...
<cbx33> thankyou
<dholbach> Hobbsee: take your time... :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> dholbach: you fix grub by any chance?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: no... I'm not mad enough - sorry
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<cbx33> got another quickie
<cbx33> say I've just done an apt-get source
<cbx33> and i want to apply all changes to the source and build it to test it
<Hobbsee> $%^&%&^*
<Hobbsee> why oh why must launchpad search be borked again???
<dholbach> cbx33: what do you want to do exactly?
<cbx33> well i'm working on an issue, but when i build the package from the source dir to ompare against my installed versions they behave differently
<cbx33> I've just applied all the patches and it's still doing the same
<cbx33> what am i doing wrong :p
<dholbach> I still don't understand, sorry
<cbx33> ok....I've apt-get installed a package
<dholbach> you build a package and apply its patches against it and you build it and it does the same
<cbx33> ran the binary with no options and I get one help message
<dholbach> that's expected, no?
<cbx33> if i then download the source...apply all patches
<cbx33> and build that source
<cbx33> and run it with no options
<cbx33> i get a diferent message
<cbx33> does that make sense? or am i going mad?
<dholbach> if you run       debuild         to build the package, you don'T have to manually apply patches
<cbx33> ok
<dholbach> that's done automatically
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> trying now
<dholbach> so after rebuilding a package, it's behaving differently - is that what you're trying?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> and I've made no changes
<dholbach> are the changes desirable? :)
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> i think it must be some kind of envrionment setting...or something
<dholbach> well then investigate what in the build-dependency chain changed :)
<cbx33> indeed i shall
<cbx33> grr this one is driving me nuts
* cbx33 notes that it'd proably take you guys 2 secs to figure it out :p
<mitsuhiko> ogra_ibook: around?
<cbx33> they two binaries are definitely different
<mitsuhiko> hi all btw
<Hobbsee> hi mitsuhiko
<cbx33> ok they are different
<cbx33> the binary pacakge doesn't seem to have been created from the current source pacakge
<imbrandon> i got a few questions if anyone is awake ...
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: people are usually awake.  whether they know the answers is a different question
<imbrandon> heh ok here go's ( long story shory i'm not a linux newb but a newb to submitting stuff to MOTU ) and I have a bug fix for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kbfx/+bug/38226 and would like to also know about maintaing it in the future , what i need to go about doing to submit it etc
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 38226 in kbfx "kbfx control panel crashes" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<Hobbsee> jpatrick currently maintains it.  you can certainly submit the patch...
<imbrandon> ahh nice ok, waseent sure how to find the maintainer or if there was one etc
<Hobbsee> use the "add attachment" link on the launchpad
<Hobbsee> maintainer is on the left of that page, just over half way down
<Hobbsee> Maintainer: Jonathan Patrick Davies
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html for more info
<imbrandon> ahhh ok , i see now, like i said kinda newb ;) i'm a long time linux user and programer but new to ubuntu ( only 6 or so months ) but glad there are easy ways to contribute ;)
<Hobbsee> if the patch works, it'd be great to have it
* Hobbsee messages jpatrick
<imbrandon> ;) tell him it will be on the way shortly , just need to look it over one last time etc ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: he's coming
<imbrandon> ahh nice lol that was FAST lol
<Hobbsee> hehe
<jpatrick> morning
<imbrandon> morning ;)
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: http://pastebin.com/657241
<imbrandon> one sec lemme grab another cup of java
<Hobbsee> (previous chat log)
<jpatrick> read it
<Hobbsee> cool :)
<imbrandon> kk back
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: it's a major bug, so i think we can upload without uvf thingies
<Hobbsee> ah ok
<imbrandon> morning jpatrick, basicly what i've found is that the 0.4.8.2 sources work great ( no crash ) so i patched in them to the ubuntu 4.8.0 sources and packaged it up
<imbrandon> BUT i'm new to the MOTU stuff etc ;) so i came for guidance about submiting the patch and further ubuntu maintaining the kbfx stuff
<jpatrick> imbrandon: attach the patch and I'll test it then upload. :)
<imbrandon> k gimme about 5 or 10 min
<imbrandon> ok its uploading now jpatrick
<imbrandon> k uploaded
<jpatrick> that is one big patch
<imbrandon> it patched the new artwork from kbfx cvs too ;(
<jpatrick> and it has some binary data in it too
<imbrandon> yea i was trying to get rid of the artwork, i can redo it one sec if you like
<jpatrick> ok
<imbrandon> gimme about 2 more min to del all the new png's
<imbrandon> they arent needed anyhow lol
<jpatrick> :)
<jpatrick> hi slomo, tuxmaniac
<slomo> hi jpatrick
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Hi
<imbrandon> hehe ok much better down to 128kb jpatrick
<imbrandon> reuploaded with no patch for the new images
* tuxmaniac volunteers to help 
<jpatrick> imbrandon: /root/kbfx0490/kbfxspinx/.kbfx_vista_button.h.swp looks funky
<imbrandon> k one sec
<imbrandon> hmmm thats how it looks in cvs too but it builds fine without it, i bet its from one of the developers closed vim too soon and created a .swp file
<imbrandon> and it got uploaded to cvs
<imbrandon> "b0VIM 6.3^@^" is from the begining of it
<imbrandon> is why i say vim , i use nano myself
<imbrandon> brb one sec, coffee time
<Toadstool> hi all
<imbrandon> hello
<imbrandon> that help at all jpatrick ? *newb hopes*
<jpatrick> I'll remove the .swp file
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> yea i did and it dident seem to have an effect, like i said must have been left over from a vim crash
<jpatrick> I can't seem to modify the diff
<jpatrick> odd
<imbrandon> ?
<imbrandon> hmmm nano/kwrite etc ?
<imbrandon> perms mabe its chownd to me
<jpatrick> I can with nano but not kate
<imbrandon> odd
<imbrandon> brb
<jpatrick> imbrandon: polishing patch
<imbrandon> ;)
<jpatrick> imbrandon: building
<jpatrick> Trying patch debian/patches/kubuntu_01_kbfx.diff at level 0...1...2...failure.
<imbrandon> ouch
<jpatrick> maybe it's because it's against kbfx-0.4.8.2?
<imbrandon> might be, i'm trying to rebuild it too now
<jpatrick> because kbfx-0.4.8 is the one in the archives
<imbrandon> ahhhh yea shiznit, i just realized that
<jpatrick> :(
<imbrandon> ok leme go back, heh anyway to delete those patches and let me make a new one ( on the bugtracker )
<ajmitch> evening
<jpatrick> afternoond ajmitch
<jpatrick> imbrandon: I did like the look of the patch
<imbrandon> ;) wont take be but just a few minutes to make up a new ( hopefulle correct one )
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> welcome to the holidays!
<ajmitch> heh :)
<ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<Hobbsee> i'm okay :)  fixed my assignment (*curses at bug she didnt see before, in the background*)
<Hobbsee> it's now ready for checkpoint 2, to point out any other major bugs...
<ajmitch> great
<Hobbsee> didnt crash in the masses of rain, or get terminally lost...
* Hobbsee wandered around the same streets for about 10 mins, looking for the way out to the main road again...
<Hobbsee> girls arent good at direction you know lol - particularly when it's raining so hard that it's almost impossible to see the street signs!
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> thankfully it's been a nice day here :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<imbrandon> ok jpatrick I grabed new CLEAN kbfx source from the deb-src respo and dif a diff against it excluding the xpm images
<imbrandon> uploaded and ready
<Goshawk__> hi
<Goshawk__> i've a problem packaging a program for ubuntu dapper, can i ask here?
<jpatrick> yes
<Goshawk__> i've a problem with a package. A package X depends from package Y. But i'm going to package a program Z that substitutes Y. So i wanna make a package Z that is compatible with the X package. is there a way to do this?
<jpatrick> imbrandon: loads of png's
<Hobbsee> Goshawk__: you make package Z have a conflicts: package Y, and have package X depending on package Z, instead of package Y, dont you?
<Goshawk__> yep
<Goshawk__> that is the problem
* Goshawk__ sees debian policy about provides (this should solve this used with conflicts and replaces)
<imbrandon> grrr coffee time , i took only the xpm's out not png's
* ajmitch heads off for sleep
<imbrandon> k jpatrick gimme a few, i'm glad your being patient with me
<jpatrick> anything to fix that bug
<tman> hi, I've just packed a package, how do i submit it to revu using dput?
<tman> i dont have any source.changes files :(
<jpatrick> did you use the -S -sa flags?
<tman> yep  dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot
<tman> but the package was already bult :s
<tman> with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<tman> and then I ran dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot
<jpatrick> :/
<imbrandon> ko jpatrick patch ( take 2 ) uploaded
<imbrandon> i went through it with nano this time to make sure no xpms or pngs lol
<tman> well, I did a debuild -S -sa and now I got the source.changes subtitleeditor_0.7.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<tman> but I got this message as well :s
<tman> E: subtitleeditor source: package-uses-debhelper-but-lacks-build-depends
<tman> W: subtitleeditor source: dh-make-template-in-source debian/cron.d.ex
<tman> W: subtitleeditor source: dh-make-template-in-source debian/menu.ex
<tman> W: subtitleeditor source: dh-make-template-in-source debian/watch.ex
<tman> W: subtitleeditor source: dh-make-template-in-source debian/subtitleeditor-default.ex
<tman> W: subtitleeditor source: dh-make-template-in-source debian/subtitleeditor.doc-base.EX
<tman> W: subtitleeditor source: dh-make-template-in-source debian/conffiles.ex
<tman> W: subtitleeditor source: dh-make-template-in-source debian/manpage.1.ex
<tman> W: subtitleeditor source: dh-make-template-in-source debian/manpage.sgml.ex
<jpatrick> flood...
<tman> W: subtitleeditor source: dh-make-template-in-source debian/manpage.xml.ex
<tman> W: subtitleeditor source: native-package-with-dash-version
<tman> W: subtitleeditor source: maintainer-not-full-name chantra
<tman> so I wonder if the source.changes is right :s
<jpatrick> rm debian/*.ex
<tman> jpatrick: sorry for the flood
<tman> so, if I wan't to submit the package, do I only have to dput *_source.changes ?
<tman> there is nothing in it :s
<tman> well, got to go, will gie another try later on
<jpatrick> sign it with your key
<tman> how?
<jpatrick> imbrandon: building ( take 2 )
<jpatrick> -kYOURKEY
<tman> ?
<imbrandon> k coffee break afk 5 min
<jpatrick> tman: do you have a gpg key?
<tman> yep
<jpatrick> debuild -S -sa -k$(keynumber)
<tman> okie done
<tman> Uploading via ftp subtitleeditor_0.7.2-0ubuntu1.dsc: done.
<tman> Uploading via ftp subtitleeditor_0.7.2-0ubuntu1.tar.gz:
<tman> :)
<jpatrick> imbrandon: messy http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/657452
<tman> jpatrick: thanks for your help
<imbrandon> *looks*
<jpatrick> not sure what happened there..
<imbrandon> whoa
<tman> what should I expect then, a mail from the motu?
<imbrandon> hmmm
<jpatrick> imbrandon: where can i get the 0.4.8.2 tarball?
<imbrandon> one sec
<jpatrick> tman: get someone to revu it
<tman> :)
<tman> do they mail you back then?
<jpatrick> no
<jpatrick> it goes on the site
<tman> to tell what os wrong
<tman> okie
<tman> got to go, cheers again
<imbrandon> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/kbfx/kbfx-0.4.8.2.tar.bz2?download
<imbrandon> 4.8.2 compile and works fine one 4 of my ubuntu machines ( 3 run dapper )
<imbrandon> one == on
<imbrandon> all i386 though, no way to test other arch
<imbrandon> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=141258
<selinium> Hi all, is there a metapackage to install a packaging environment?
<jpatrick> dpkg-dev
<jpatrick> imbrandon: take 3
<imbrandon> hehe ( not funny really )
<jpatrick> :) sorry
<imbrandon> i hope its not 7am there for you ;)
<imbrandon> no problems for me, i just wanna see kbfx working ;)
<imbrandon> i'm glad someone got it into dapper
<jpatrick> you a dev?
<imbrandon> trying to be, actualy it seems no one else is working on it but me
<imbrandon> everyone else from the project is mia
<imbrandon> but no i dont do it for a living but i've been working on kbfx for like 3 months now and ubuntu for about 6
<imbrandon> more used to cvs than diff though ;)
<jpatrick> thing keeps failing.........
<jpatrick> can't I package the cvs? :)
<imbrandon> damm hmm can you build just the 8.2 tarbal ?
<imbrandon> sure
<imbrandon> cvs is what i'm working with, everything i have is commited to cvs
<jpatrick> great
<imbrandon> *thought you would never ask*
<imbrandon> lol
<jpatrick> :)
<jpatrick> never worked with cvs
<jpatrick> now it's downloading
<imbrandon> ahh cvs ( or svn ) is NICE
<imbrandon> very very helpfull to large projects with devs from all over
<jpatrick> SVN I know
<jpatrick> there's nothing in src/
<imbrandon> svn == newer cvs
<lifeless> imbrandon: CVS is very _not_ nice:O
<imbrandon> cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/kbfx co -P kbfx0490
<imbrandon> lifeless: hehe well its been nice to me but svn is good too
<jpatrick> that's better :)
<imbrandon> actualy i like svn better but cvs has been arround for ages
<azeem> imbrandon: this is the bzr-fanboy chan
<imbrandon> bzr?
<azeem> http://bazaar-vcs.org/
<jpatrick> bazaar
<imbrandon> ahhh never used it will have to check it out
<zerokarmaleft> imbrandon: basically every checkout is treated as a branch, iirc
* pygi pokes slomo
<imbrandon> brb time to make more coffee
<jpatrick> imbrandon: does it really need automake.1.6 ?
<imbrandon> no just automake 1.6+
<imbrandon> i use 1.9
<jpatrick> doesn't work with 1.9
<imbrandon> ahhh yea i symlinked it, you can edit the makefile
<jpatrick> ** YOU'RE USING automake (GNU automake) 1.9.6
<imbrandon> it shouldent make a diff
<imbrandon> one sec
<Tm_T> jpatrick: ?
<jpatrick> Tm_T: what it says
<Tm_T> 15:25 < jpatrick> doesn't work with 1.9
<jpatrick> automake1.9
<Tm_T> jpatrick: I haven't seen the error yet ;)
<imbrandon> In order to make it work with another automake version (1.9.* in the example) you have to edit the cvs.sh under the admin folder... there look for the "AUTOMAKE_STRING" and modify the following section as follows:
<imbrandon> automake*1.6.* | automake*1.7.* | automake*1.8.* | automake*1.9.* ) : ;;
<jpatrick> Tm_T: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/657505 you happy now?
<imbrandon> as long as its 1.6 or above
<Tm_T> jpatrick: I'm always happy ;)
<imbrandon> ;)
<jpatrick> imbrandon: line 67?
<imbrandon> should be
<Tm_T> jpatrick: haha, somewhat stupid your error is ;)
<jpatrick> imbrandon: appears to work now
<imbrandon> sweet
<Tm_T> well done, kids ;)
<imbrandon> ok i'm off to sleep for a few hours
<jpatrick> imbrandon: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-April/009310.html
<imbrandon> i'll be back a little later
<imbrandon> *waits*
<imbrandon> woot
<imbrandon> thanks jpatrick
<jpatrick> thank you
<imbrandon> np i'm going to update it from the respo then head to sleep for a few hours ;) i'll be back this eve
<truz24> Were any fonts changed for firefox?  Since one of the recent updates, my fonts look different...
<bddebian> Heya Gang
<jpatrick> hey
<LaserJock> bddebian: around?
<bddebian> Yo
<LaserJock> tyvis and saoimage are removed ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: "great" thanks :-)
<LaserJock> and I even got one added yesterday
<bddebian> Nice
<LaserJock> I have 2 more to go
<bddebian> LaserJock: You have any time?
<LaserJock> bddebian: sure, what's up?
<bddebian> LaserJock: I uploaded ygraph but apparently it FTBFSs on all archs.  I think it may just need a autoreconf or whatever but all my machines are tied up :-(
<Yagisan> w00t. I broke bzip2 by rebuilding with a newer gcc
<LaserJock> bddebian: ok, I'm not sure how to autoreconf stuff but I do have a machine available
<bddebian> Yagisan: Nice :-)
<LaserJock> Yagisan: does gunzip work?
<Yagisan> bddebian: yeah. I get this cool error "/usr/bin/ld: bzip2: hidden symbol `__stack_chk_fail_local' in /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.1.0/../../../../lib32/libssp_nonshared.a(libssp_nonshared_la-ssp-local.o) is referenced by DSO" followed by
<Yagisan> bddebian: "/usr/bin/ld: final link failed: Nonrepresentable section on output"
<bddebian> w00t
<Yagisan> LaserJock: havent tried it yet
<LaserJock> bddebian: dang it, I went tried to reject the tyvis bug but it said it has already been rejected ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Sorry man :-)
<bddebian> Just trying to "clean up" :_)
<LaserJock> bddebian: how am I supposed to get any karma when you beat me to everything ;p
<bddebian> You could actually "fix" something
* bddebian hides
<LaserJock> doh
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> j/k
<bddebian> Sorry, I won't do that again
<LaserJock> well, I think I'm pretty much done with the packaging guide for now, so I think I can help
<Yagisan> LaserJock: well, if you could, I'd like to actually be able to print in dapper
<Yagisan> LaserJock: I'm sure that would get you lots of karma
<LaserJock> Yagisan: I'd love to but I wouldn't be able to test anything and I have 57 bugs to work on right now as it is ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: 57 bugs?
<Yagisan> LaserJock: that's ok. I think gs-esp is main's problem anyway
<LaserJock> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/+subscribedbugs
<bddebian> Oh yeah, that list...
<LaserJock> first I'm going to get 2 NEW packages while I still can and then I'll work on the bugs
<sivang> anybody here for a quick review, and sponsered upload to universe of HUB?
<hub> what is HUB?
<sivang> http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/HUB/
<sivang> hub: heh
<hub> I thought that somebody was ringing me
<hub> sivang: did you upload it to REVU?
<sivang> hub: not yet, I was thinking of having someone review it ASAP :-) I need it in the repo as fast as can be, so people will start bombard me with bugspam :)
* sivang realizes this might be impossible
<hub> sivang: FF
<hub> sivang: REVU is the good place to have it review
<hub> upload it there a bug a MOTU to review it
<hub> bug given that universe is in FF, I wouldn't hold my breath
<sivang> I have approval from mdz to upload it to universe when it's presentable to users, which is now
<Yagisan> but if you do hold your breath, it may be a new Guinness World Record
<sivang> although I'll ask him again just to make sure
<sivang> Yagisan: AH AH AH
<sivang> hub: are you approved for uploading to universe?
<hub> sivang: I'm a MOTU
<hub> but we are on FF, so I won't upload new things
<sivang> hub: cool, could you please upload it to REVU on my behalf?
<hub> and any new package has to be approved by at least 3 MOTU
* Yagisan attempts to break coreutils. Go Yagi Go
<hub> sivang: you can upload to REVU yourself
<jpatrick> hub: err, two
<hub> jpatrick: I thought is was 3
<Yagisan> hub: used to be
<hub> okay
<sivang> hub: okay
<sivang> hub: who is approving FF exceptions ?
* Yagisan falls off chair. coreutils actually built and seems to work.
<bddebian> w00t :-)
<LaserJock> arggh, stupid fire alarm. Power went out at school
<LaserJock> heh, ever lost all the data they were collecting but I have my iMac on a UPS ;-)
<LaserJock> s/ever/everybody/
<bddebian> heh
* bddebian hands cernlib off to LaserJock before he kills himself
<mitsuhiko> ogra: ping :(
<ogra> mitsuhiko, just bzr get the source from  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/hwdb-client/
<ogra> mitsuhiko, there is no server side part, feel free to build one
<mitsuhiko> jep
<mitsuhiko> i will do :)
<mitsuhiko> i would like to improve the client and write a server software for it :)
<sivang> ogra: can you get dholbach and together arrange a review board for the first upload of HUB ?:)
<ogra> sivang, but not today anymore ... i'm about to leave
<LaserJock> bddebian: what is up with cernlib?
<dholbach> sivang: same here
<bddebian> LaserJock: kxterm and paw++ desktop files.  I can't get them in the damn .deb files :-(
<LaserJock> bddebian: k
<sivang> ogra, dholbach : okay, can we make it a date for tomorrow? :)
<dholbach> sivang: send me a mail and i'll look at it
<sivang> dholbach: you're my hero!!
<dholbach> (a mail with the url and stuff)
<sivang> dholbach: sure, will do it now
<dholbach> thanks
<sivang> dholbach: thank you!
<sivang> dholbach: sent
<sivang> dholbach: still missing icons for the menu, but I am working on it
<sivang> dholbach: (the deskop/administration menu from the panel, that is)
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> um... i'm fixing one bug in bacula...
<Yagisan> G'day ivoks
<ivoks> i noticed it builds against libmysqlclient14, but works on mysql-5
<ivoks> should i try building it againt 15off?
<Yagisan> ivoks: dumb question, either of those mysql in main ?
<ivoks> mysql is irrelevant
<ivoks> libmysqlclient is what i'm asking about
<Yagisan> ivoks: if it was me, I'd want to build agains the one that gets better security support
<ivoks> Yagisan: yeah, but i'll have to see if it builds at all
<Yagisan> ivoks: give it a try
<ivoks> yeah... will do
<Yagisan> ivoks: what's the worst that could happen ?
<ivoks> worst? broken bacula in dapper :)
<ivoks> but i'll make sure that doesn't happen :)
<Yagisan> ivoks: actually I was thinking FTBFS. I've been getting a few of those today while I scratch my particular itch
<ivoks> well, it's FTBS with libmysqlclient14
<ivoks> and that makes me think :)
<Yagisan> ivoks: I'd try 15 then
<ivoks> allready running
<ivoks> damn... same thing
<ivoks> urgh... this will be a long night
<Yagisan> w00t. gzip works too
<ivoks> i have to grab something to eat :/
<tman> hi
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> how many versions of the kill binary are there?
<bddebian> Heya cbx33
<tman> hi, I've uploaded a package 10 hours ago, i don't see it on revu.tauware.de is this normal
<tman> did I forget something (like getting my key signed :s )
<cbx33> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Uhm, that would do it :-)
<cbx33> i have a source package that i don't think matches the binary package
<cbx33> anyway to confirm this?
<Yagisan> bddebian: tired of having your system "just work", want all the excitement of possible breakage, want endless hours of fun chasing down obscure bugs ? I have just the thing for you to test :)
<bddebian> Uh oh
<bddebian> cbx33: ??
<tman> if the key is not signed, can a package be uploaded, or is it automatically rejected?
<cbx33> bddebian, i donloaded a source package
<cbx33> did a debuild
<cbx33> and one of the binaries produced
<cbx33> differed from the apt-get install i did earlier
<Yagisan> bddebian: don't worry, it's unlikely you will need to reinstall (I hope)
<Yagisan> bddebian: you'd like a more secure system, wouldn't you ?
* Yagisan wonders if he scared bddebian off
* dholbach leaves too - have a good time
<cbx33> anyone got any clue about the problem i posed?
<cbx33> sorry for keeping on with this one guys
<azeem> cbx33: can you rephrase it?
<azeem> how different?
<cbx33> the binaries are different sizes
<azeem> how much?
<cbx33> and the usage message is very different
<cbx33> about 500 bytes
<cbx33> or so
<azeem> the usage message?
<bddebian> Yagisan: Sorry, man work crap.. :-(
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> how to use the binary
<cbx33> since my bug is to do with that
<cbx33> a missing or over documented option
<ivoks> blah... bacula is seriously FTBS
<bddebian> sudo dpkg -i <whatever>.deb :)
<ivoks> we might need a new version :/
<ivoks> oh, there is no new ver in debian :/
<cbx33> how many packages provide the kill binary??
<Yagisan> ivoks: why FTBFS ?
<bddebian> cbx33: Try packages.debian.org or packages.ubuntu.org  and look at file contained in packages..
<ivoks> bad packaging
<ivoks> interesting
<ivoks> new bacula 1.38 is out since 2006-01-19
<ivoks> and we still have old one
<ivoks> and there are dramatic changes
<ivoks> Yagisan: strip: 'src/stored/bscan': No such file :)
<ivoks> it can be fixed
<ivoks> i'll contact debian maintaner to see if he has plans of uploading new version
<ivoks> and ask for UVF exception for it
<Yagisan> ugh. zlib uses dbs. How am I supposed to make a patch for this ?
<ivoks> omg!
<ivoks> bacula isn't maintained for a year in debian
<ivoks> urghhhhh
<Yagisan> ivoks: congrats. You are the new maintainer! (actually, as bacula is very useful, someone should really give it some love)
<ivoks> yeah, i use it on lots of locations
<ivoks> i'll do it
<ivoks> urgh... i hope i know what i'm doing :)
<ivoks> this isn't easy slice of software :/
<tman> hi , after uploading a package, I don't see it in http://revu.tauware.de/ , is this normal?
<Yagisan> tman: takes 5-10 minutes usually
<tman> arf, I submitted the package few hours ago,
<tman> but at the time, i didn't make my key signed, would it be a reason?
<tman> is it required to have a key signed to upload to revu
<bddebian> yes
<Yagisan> tman: I don't think so. But it only takes source only uploads
<bddebian> ivoks: But it's still in Debian?
<Yagisan> bddebian: probably QA maintainer
<bddebian> Ah
<bddebian> ivoks: What's the build error?
<tman> Yagisan: so, if i created a .deb package, and want to add it to revu, I just need to dput -P *_source.changes
<tman> and then it should be uploaded, right? how to I follow evolution of the package ?
<bddebian> tman: You want to do a dpkg-buildpackage or debuild -S, then yes, dput revu <pkg>.changes
<ivoks> bddebian:
<ivoks> mv: cannot stat `src/stored/bscan': No such file or directory
<ivoks> mv: cannot stat `src/stored/bcopy': No such file or directory
<ivoks> bddebian: anyway, i think i can fix it
<ivoks> bddebian: but we have to include new version ASAP
* Yagisan curses at dbs
<ivoks> it has lots of bugs fixed and important fatures
<bddebian> ivoks: Cool.  There's a new upstream version?
<ivoks> even configuration isn't the same any more
<ivoks> bddebian: yeah, for a 7-8 months allready :)
<Yagisan> anyone know if dbs-edit-patch is busted ?
<tman> bddebian: yep, this is what i did
<tman> I don't really get on to retrieve password from revu.tauware.de
<tman> after doing as it is said on the web page for recovering password, I dont get anything displayed :s
<tman> doing gpg -d <<<EOT .......
<bddebian> ivoks: What a surprise.. :_)
<bddebian> Yagisan: dbs-edit-patch?
<ivoks> bddebian: :) check out: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=337250
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 337250 in bacula "Subject: bacula: FTBFS: 'src/stored/bscan': No such file" [Serious,Open] 
<ivoks> guy is alive
<bddebian> ivoks: Yeah, well barely apparently :-)
<Yagisan> bddebian: from the dbs patch system
<ivoks> look what guy did in building rules
<ivoks> 2>&1 >/dev/null on make
<ivoks> what an... uh!
<bddebian> I saw that in the bug report.  WTF is that?
<ivoks> how can i debug...
<ivoks> he's redirecting errors in /dev/null
<ivoks> so you can't find them :)
<Amaranth> grr
<tman> could anyone help me out with the recovering from revu.tauware.de
<tman> pls, I can seem to make the gpg -d thingy to work :s
* Yagisan has decided he doesn't like dbs very much now
<ivoks> :)
<Yagisan> ivoks: all I want to do is a f*cking 1 line change to a makefile, and the damm thing won't let me
<bddebian> tman: Are you getting the gpg message when you hit recover?
<tman> yep
<tman> bddebian: but when decrypting, entering my keypass, i don't seem to get anything
<bddebian> The output is ugly.  Alot of times the password just shows up right next to the cursor prompt so it's hard to see it :-)
<ivoks> Yagisan: does it have to be dbs?
<tman> I have to paste from ----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE to END PGP MESSAGE----- aint I?
<bddebian> Yes
<ivoks> with those lines
<Yagisan> ivoks: yes. that is what zlib uses. I just want to delete one small section that says CC=cc
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> but why, we have cc
<tman> bddebian: I just get None :(
<tman> and it is not my pass :s
<ivoks> eh! it builds! woahahahahahaha
<bddebian> ivoks: Rock on man
<ivoks> but we should really consider new bacula for dapper
<ivoks> this one is sooooo outdated
<bddebian> ivoks: You going to maintain it? ;-)
<ivoks> nope... it looks like DD will :)
<Yagisan> ivoks: because, it is overriding the gcc I'm specifying. And as the old gcc does not support the flag I'm using, it craps out on build.
<tman> bddebian: after pasting the text, it tells me You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
<ivoks> Yagisan: I tought that could be a problem
<tman> I do enter it correct then I get garbage like
<tman> user: "blalbal blla "
* Yagisan kicks dbs hard
<tman> and then tells me stories about key ID, my key username ...
<tman>  but no pass aroud :s
<tman> is there something I'm missing?
<bddebian> tman: Yes, do you enter your gpg passphrase?
<tman> yep
<tman> bddebian: and it is right, as it don't through up error
<bddebian> Do you get something like user: "First Last <foo@bar.com>"
<bddebian> Then gpg: Encrypted with ....
<bddebian> tman: ^ ??
<tman> sorry bddebian
<tman> bddebian: yes, I do get "first last <email>"
<tman> gpg: encrypted with ...
<tman> and then I get a for char word which is not my pass :s, and this is not my
<bddebian> tman: It should be your password.  If not something else is broken
<tman> login is email address isn't it
<bddebian> yes
<tman> bddebian: the ubuntu dev guide says that once you uploaded a package, you are automatically added to revu
<tman> I'm starting to onder if I'm added to it :s
<Yagisan> tman: ah, have you ever requested access to revu ?
<tman> if I want to reupload the package, I get
<tman> Upload package to host revu
<tman> Already uploaded to revu.tauware.de
<tman> Yagisan: nope
<Yagisan> tman: you may not be on the list of authorised uploaders then
* Yagisan had to apply
<tman> arf
<tman> but doing a dput *_source.changes tells me
<tman> that it is already uploaded, how can I know the process of the package
<Yagisan> tman: it will take the upload, but it will need to be manually processed by an admin
<tman> moreover, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU?action=show&redirect=REVU says:
<Yagisan> tman: iirc siretart and ajmitch are admins
<tman> After your first upload, you will be automatically registered to the database and assigned a random password.
<tman> Use the email address you used in the changelog file of your upload as login and press the
<tman> 'recover password' link, so as to receive your password by email.
<tman> never received any emails :s
<tman> Yagisan: do you reckon I should pm them ?
<tman> I basically, will like to know where the packages processing is at :)
<Yagisan> tman: well, siretart is on holidays, and ajmitch should still be in bed (actually, so should I)
<bddebian> I think I'm an admin but I can't remember my damn password :-(
<tman> is it then possible to check the processing of  a package?
<tman> quch as "in process", "to be processed" ....
<Yagisan> tman: what is your package name ?
<ajmitch> Yagisan: I am in bed :)
<ajmitch> laptops are great
<Yagisan> ajmitch: morning ! I've been making progress with my SSP work tonight/lastnight
<ajmitch> morning Yagisan :)
<ajmitch> great!
<tseng> Yagisan: yay
<Yagisan> just dbs is mocking me why I try to build zlib with SSP
<Yagisan> s/shy/when
<ajmitch> tman: is your gpg key in the uploaders' keyring for REVU?
<ajmitch> tman: also, which package did you try & upload?
<Yagisan> tseng: still uses the "ugly" libssp0-dev addition to build-deps though
<tman> Yagisan: subtitleeditor
<Yagisan> tman: rejected
<tseng> i find it hard to believe he is in the keyring as ive never seen him before
<tman> ajmitch: raphink did add it
<tseng> oh, revu
<tman> Yagisan: arf, who do we know the reason ...
<Yagisan> tman: I don't know. I just ftpped into the incoming queue and checked rejected, and there it was. Did you sign the .changes file ?
<tman> i guess
<ajmitch> tman: I moved it back & it looks to have been accepted this time
<ajmitch> not sure why it wouldn't go through the first time :)
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<tman> i did run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<tman> and then debuild -S -sa
<tseng> why do both
<bddebian> Aye
<tman> then dput *_source.change
<tman> tseng: cause the first time I had no source.change
<tman> ajmitch: thks, I see it in revu.tauware.de
<tman> ajmitch: bddebian cool, I finnally retrieved my password :)
<bddebian> excellent, what was it?
<bddebian> the problem, not the password :-)
<tman> bddebian: caus my upload got rejected in the first place
<bddebian> Ahh
<tman> ajmitch: moved it back and the package was accepted !?!
<tman> therefore I was able to retrieve my password :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: feel like testing out some SSP enabled applications ?
<bddebian> Damnit, what is the libglu1 thing now?
<tman> bddebian: anf now, will I be informed of any comments ... by mail or should I check by time?
<bddebian> tman: I believe they have added e-mail notifications but don't quote me on that :-)
<cyberserver> Hi people. I tought I should tell this to someone, altough I'm not sure if it's a bug or not: I'm doing a net install of dapper (I've booted of a netinstall mini-cd) and, when installing/configuring packages dapper asked me what was my braille reader?!?
<tman> bddebian: okie dokie, will check by time then ;)
<tman> thnks for all :)
<bddebian> NP
<cyberserver> I'm pretty sure I havent chosen any option for sight-disabled, and its kind of strange of getting 1 package out of some 600 that were installed right now that asked question, while no other did
<LaserJock> cyberserver: I got that message in my dist-upgrade today
<Yagisan> tseng: I'm impressed with just how many apps FTBFS with ssp enabled
<bddebian> See you in a bit folks
<tseng> Yagisan: have you talked to anyone from gentoo
<Yagisan> tseng: nope. I only had some time tonight to do some work, so I randomly picked 22 packages from all over dapper. So far 3 fails, 2 pass, and 17 to go
<Yagisan> tseng: It may well be my own relative inexperience at packaging that may be the cause of the failures,
<tseng> Yagisan: do you have logs for the failures
<Yagisan> tseng: I can make pbuilder generate them
<Yagisan> tseng: where would you like the logs ?
<tseng> anywhere
<mdke> there is a diff on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gxine/+bug/39507 if someone fancies the easiest and fastest bug close ever. (is it still hug day?)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39507 in gxine "HIG compliant menu entry" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<Yagisan> tseng: they are in here http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/uf/
<Yagisan> tseng: zlib should be because minizip sets it's own CC, and dbs-edit-patch failed to work as advertised
<tseng> yeah
<Yagisan> tseng: bzip2, I have no idea, and zip appears to not link
<tseng> suck
<tseng> so
<tseng> alot of this is fucked up makefiles
<Yagisan> tseng: basically, yes
<tseng> which gentoo avoids
<Yagisan> tseng: eg coreutils and gzip were good
<tseng> adamantix goes for the hack and slash technique
<tseng> you might steal from them
<Yagisan> tseng: are they still at woody ?
<tseng> hm
<tseng> are they that behind?
<Yagisan> tseng: when I last checked, yeah
<tseng> wow
<tseng> useless
<Yagisan> tseng: they chose to stick with 2.4.x kernels, and yeah, they have a mention of backporting from sarge!
<tseng> i havent worked on Hardened for over a year
<tseng> anything i say is dated
<Yagisan> tseng: and yet, probably more up to date then many of the sites I have to chose from
<tseng> haha.
<tseng> could be
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-19
<Yagisan> tseng: yep. seems like braindead makefiles. linpng is another that ignores CC
<Yagisan> s/linpng/libpng
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> that will be a huge problem
<Yagisan> tseng: well, at least I can patch that, butthis is taking a bit of the fun out of it. I should start mass filling bugs on apps that ignore CC, CFLAGS and kin
<tseng> you could
<tseng> but it would take a lifetime to actually get results
<tseng> this is why pappy- patched the specfiles
<tseng> to default ssp and pie
<Yagisan> tseng: so, I'd need to file bugs on apps that ignore CFLAGS to turn off SSP then ;)
<tseng> no
<tseng> we could turn it off
<Yagisan> tseng: ideally, I'd like to see the core libs protected, then as it is shown they work, progressively add other applications
<tseng> i need to find the eclass i wrote for ssp
<tseng> http://mirror.etf.bg.ac.yu/gentoorsync/eclass/flag-o-matic.eclass
<tseng> search for fstack
<Yagisan> tseng: I need to head out now, I'll investigate more of the makefiles from hell when I get back
<Yagisan> tseng: feel free to nitpick anything on my research page
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Heya crimsun_
<crimsun_> 'lo bddebian
<bddebian> crimsun_: Got a minute by any chance?
<bddebian> Anyone have a minute to explain install ... vs. <pgk>.install vs dh_install?  I should say when to use what?  I am getting inconsistent results on a few packages?
<raphink> bddebian: did you see the problem with celestia ?
<raphink> you need to install this .desktop in celestia-common instead of celestia it seems
<raphink> hi \sh
<\sh> hi...who was responsible for the ubuntu cloaks on freenode?
<raphink> \sh: it's seveas iirc
<\sh> ah ok
<Tonio_> hey \sh !
<bddebian> raphink: ?
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<raphink> bddebian: celestia won't install
<\sh> ok, just for your information...as I said earlier, I just removed myself from the core and motu development team on launchpad
<bddebian> :-(
<Tonio_> :/
<bddebian> raphink: It installed on my machine?
<\sh> I also removed myself from all the other teams except the ubuntu member team...so everything is fine....
<raphink> bddebian: on mine, it says it can't replace /usr/share/applications/celestia-glut.desktop because it belongs to the celestia-common package already
<bddebian> Goddamn this desktop crap is starting to piss me off
<raphink> bddebian: :s
<\sh> ok guys..have a good night, morning or whatever :) hope you are all fine and doing some rocking stuff for ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu/edubuntu
<bddebian> Later \sh, take care
<\sh> well..from now on I'm just a guest...coming sometimes around :)
<bddebian> Ahh, fuck it
<raphink> :(
<tritium> poor \sh.  What's the matter?
<raphink> bddebian: about celestia, I think all you have to do is install this .desktop in celestia-common rather than celestia
<raphink> tritium: I'd like to understand
<bddebian> tritium: He has no money afaiui
<tritium> bddebian: that's no reason to give up membership
<Tonio_> I must say it is a bit hard to understand....
<bddebian> raphink: All I did was add celestia-glut.desktop to the celestia-glut package as far as I know
<Tonio_> I hope he will does what he needs to be as ine as possible, but....
<crimsun_> bddebian: sorry, I'm at a LUG meeting hacking on ALSA
<raphink> ah?
<bddebian> crimsun_: No worries, I'm starting to think I'm helpless anyway :-(
<tritium> Well, my thoughts are with \sh...
<jah_raztah> the Gnomebaker in ubuntu repositories are built with gstreamer0.8-mad for mp3 support in gnomebaker, the gstreamer0.8-mad has some problems and issues, thus is it possible for gnomebaker to use another library for mp3, preferably the gstreamer.10-ugly packages which is also used by rhythmbox and sepertine
<crimsun_> bddebian: bah, hardlfy
<crimsun_> hardly^
<bddebian> ?
<crimsun_> "helpless"?
<bddebian> Ah
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> who went overboard on launchpad css?
<raphink> huhu
<raphink> you don't like the aqua style ajmitch ? ;)
<ajmitch> raphink: no, and it breaks middle-click for new tab
<raphink> ah!
<jah_raztah> hello
<raphink> hi jah_raztah
<jah_raztah> raphink, is there any other alternatives to getting mp3 support in gnomebaker rather then using gstreamer0.8-mad
<raphink> jah_raztah: I'm not a GNOME user
<jah_raztah> ok
<jah_raztah> anyone else here that knows please feel free to answer
<raphink> jah_raztah: I'd say for such a question asking on #ubuntu might be a better idea
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: im not a fan of the new launchpad header either
<Unfrgiven> btw hi everyone :)
<ajmitch> hi
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: how r u?
<ajmitch> good, how are you?
<Unfrgiven> good good. just wrapping up my madwifi-ng package :)
<Unfrgiven> its been quite an experience packaging kernel modules!
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: got a question for you about module loading. if you modprobe blah and blah exists in multiple /lib/modules/<KVERS> directories, which one does it choose first?
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: does it go based on alphabetical traversal of the directory?
<bddebian> Heya Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> bddebian: hey dude, how r u?
<bddebian> Stupid as ever thanks.  You? :-)
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: no, it only goes for the version matching the current kernel version
<Unfrgiven> ok let me explain the scenario
<Unfrgiven> linux-restricted-modules provides madwifi drivers. i've packaged madwifi-ng drivers. but i cant make my madwifi-ng package conflict with l-r-m because l-r-m also provides other things such as nvidia and ati drivers
<ajmitch> ok
<Unfrgiven> so for the moment my madwifi-ng installs modules to a different /lib directory than l-r-m
<Unfrgiven> so in essence there are two .ko files in the same /lib/modules/kernel-version/...
<Unfrgiven> now i want to make sure that if madwifi-ng and l-r-m is installed, by default madwifi-ng drivers will be picked up
<ajmitch> that'll be a bit harder, I think
<Unfrgiven> so im trying to find out how modprobe works
<ajmitch> and is not something I can answer
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: ok no probs. you understand my problem though right?
<bddebian> Unfrgiven: So add nvidia and ati to your and do a Replaces :-)
<Unfrgiven> bddebian: well thats not a good longterm solution IMO
<Unfrgiven> i have a feeling (and I need to confirm this) that modprobe, traverse /lib/modules/KVERS alphabetically
<Unfrgiven> so it should find /lib/modules/KVERS/blah/abc.ko before /lib/modules/KVERS/blah2/abc.ko
<bddebian> ah
<Yagisan> Unfrgiven: just reading scrollback here, but could dpkg-divert let you replace the l-r-m module with yours ?
<Yagisan> tseng: while trying to get my shopping done, I thought of another possible way to get ssp going. I'll patch gcc-defaults to only use 4.1.x gcc as default, then patch build-essential to add libssp0-dev. All I then need to do is change CFLAGS and rebuild
<Yagisan> tseng: should avoid a fair bit of crap makefiles
<FunnyLookinHat> dist-upgrade seems to be forcing people to install braille interpretation drivers
<FunnyLookinHat> Strange bug or ubuntu dev's way of using subliminal messaging?  I say the latter.
<crimsun> it's for a11y
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: if i used dpkg-divert, how would i revert the old module back?
<Lure> Can somebody explain me this build failure: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/659068
<Lure> this is for kpowersave: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/185614
<Lure> package builds fine in pbuilder, but fails due to Rosetta on buildd
<Yagisan> Unfrgiven: undo the divert in post-rm. It's been a while since I used it, but I think it would do exactly what you want
<Yagisan> Unfrgiven: IIRC pentium-builder is a working example of how to use dpkg-divert
<chillywilly> howdy
<Yagisan> G'day chillywilly
<lucas> hi
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: thanks for that, ill look into it!
<Unfrgiven> Seveas: just to let you know, lilo did setup my cloak. thanks for your help
<ivoks> 'morning
<cbx33> ok guys, anyone around?
<cbx33> the kill binary.....
<freeflying> cbx33: hi
<cbx33> hey freeflying
<cbx33> i've uninstalled procps
<cbx33> which provides the kill binary
<cbx33> but on running the kill command i still get a usage summary
<cbx33> y?
<freeflying> cbx33: purge it , and try
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> nope still there
<cbx33> is it provided with bash
<cbx33> yup it is
<cbx33> ok is this a bug
<cbx33> after i've installed the procps package I would expect the kill command to use the new kill binary
<cbx33> but it doesn't it still uses the built in command
<pygi> slomo: around?
<slomo__> pygi: yes
<pygi> slomo__: thanks for package :)
<pygi> now UVFe? :)
<slomo__> pygi: np :) UVFe? what do you mean? it's already in dapper with a bunch of fixes :)
<pygi> slomo__: damn, then I haven't updated :-P sorry :)
<phanatic> hi people
<ivoks> we should sync sylpheed-claws-gtk2 from debian
<ivoks> the one in dapper is broken
<ivoks> and UVF was granted 2 months ago :/
<pygi> ivoks: uh,huh :-/
<slomo__> pygi: ok :) tell me if something else is broken ;)
<slomo__> ivoks: so just sync it or ask for another UVF exception for the current version ;)
<ivoks> version didn't change
<ivoks> uhm... shouldn't elmo sync from debian?
<ivoks> (/me wasn't here last couple of months :)
<slomo__> ivoks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources#syncs
* pygi slowly fades away
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> slomo__: thanks
<cyberserver> Hi people. flashplugin-nonfree gone from the multiverse repository?
<cyberserver> My apt-cache is not listing it
<cyberserver> Forget-it.. multiverse was not enabled in my sources.list
<cyberserver> I think flashplugin-nonfree is not being able to fetch macromedia's flash
<cyberserver> This is a repackaged ubuntu installer... maybe we can have sucess using debain standart one?
<slomo__> Natja: ping?
<cyberserver> ok, debian package has the same problem
<cyberserver> are these contrib packages taken care by someone of ubuntu (out of motu) that we should contact?
<Natja> slomo__: pong
<cyberserver> ?!? Macromedia does not have the package available at all...
<slomo__> Natja: just wanted to tell you that motu-uvf is not responsible for syncs that import a new upstream version but were approved already and syncs that only import a new debian revision :)
<ivoks> slomo__: lol
<ivoks> nice comment on bug 39536
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39536 in sylpheed-claws-gtk2 "UVF exception: Sync request from sid" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39536
<Natja> slomo__: ok, sorry
<slomo__> Natja: np... nobody was killed ;) but thanks for looking at all the new bugs and assigning them somewhere when needed :)
<Natja> ;)
<ivoks> gnje... i still have one bug open on one of my uploads :/
<ivoks> but i think i will reject it
<ivoks> in a month or two
<phanatic> hi raphink
<raphink> hi phanatic
<tseng> Yagisan: you can set global CFLAGS on sbuild somehow
<tseng> Yagisan: ah you can just do an export right in pbuilderrc
<Toadstool> heya MOTUs
<ivoks> do we have security team for universe? :)
<tseng> we did
<ivoks> :)
<tseng> i dont think anyone is actively working on it atm
<ivoks> ok, how can we upload security fixes to breezy?
<ivoks> we should
<tseng> you make a release XubuntuY.1
<tseng> with the changelog [SECURITY] 
<tseng> mention all CVE's that apply
<tseng> and send the source package to pitti
<ivoks> source.changes :)
<ivoks> ok
<slomo__> is someone on amd64 here and could test to build something for me? (it will take maybe some hours and a lot of ram)
<ivoks> sorry, no
<ivoks> (meaning i have no amd :)
<Toadstool> slomo__: yep
<slomo__> Toadstool: ok cool :) latest ikvm from debian/unstable
<Toadstool> ok, let's go :)
<slomo__> our current version doesn't build on amd64... and the debian version builds on amd64 for some reason
<Toadstool> 0.26.0.1-1 ?
<slomo__> yes
<Toadstool> ok slomo__, building
<slomo__> doko: what should be used for compiling java stuff? ecj(-bootstrap) or something else?
<slomo__> Toadstool: is it compiling?
<Toadstool> yep, still compiling
<slomo__> at least something :)
<slomo__> the previous version failed instantly
<Toadstool> I've got a few BUILD SUCCEEDED so I'm confident :)
<Toadstool> gij-4.1 is eating a huge amount of cpu and ram ^^
<slomo__> yes... unfortunately... if this fails later we could try compiling with gcj instead of ecj... maybe it works better
* slomo__ gets some food... brb
<Toadstool> slomo__: wow, it takes a *huge* amount of time to compile the classpath jars ^^
<slomo__> Toadstool: i know :) is it finished?
<Toadstool> nope
<slomo__> uh... mine was faster :)
<Toadstool> slomo__: well, it's freezing on "exec /usr/bin/ecj-bootstrap -g -1.5 -nowarn -cp mscorlib.jar:System.jar @allsources.lst"...
<Toadstool> but gij is still running
<slomo__> Toadstool: yeah that is the part that takes ages ;) does it still use your cpu for something?
<Toadstool> yep, gij is eating 99% of my cpu :)
<slomo__> ok... so probably the gij JIT for x86 is much better than the amd64 one
<Toadstool> yeah probably
<phanatic> hi people
<Toadstool> slomo__: still building...
<slomo__> :/
<Toadstool> i've never seen a package that long to build on my amd64 box :)
<slomo__> try openoffice :)
<Toadstool> haha
<Hobbsee> slomo__: ugh, yeah.  or koffice...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Toadstool> slomo__: still building ikvm and gij-4.1 is still eating a lot of CPU...
<slomo__> Toadstool: :(
<trappist> bugs filed against hoary that are fixed, but not necessarily in hoary - should I close em?
<Amaranth> trappist: yes (late)
<trappist> Amaranth: thanks
<trappist> forgot what bug I was looking at, but that'll be helpful in the future :)
<trappist> Amaranth: ditto for breezy?
<Amaranth> yep
<Amaranth> if it's fixed in dapper close it
<trappist> cool
<trappist> that's a lot of bugs
<Toadstool> slomo__: I hate gij, that's so slow :)
<siretart> hey folks!
<Toadstool> hi siretart
<bddebian> huhu siretart
<siretart> heyho Toadstool, hi bddebian
<slomo__> Toadstool: still compiling? :)
<Toadstool> yes
<slomo__> omg
<Toadstool> :)
<slomo__> maybe gij has no JIT at all for amd64 but only an interpreter ;)
<Toadstool> :D
<sivang> has anyone seen dholbach ?
<bddebian> I think he said he was out until after Easter but don't quote me on that :-)
<sivang> bddebian: I see, I guess that goes for everyone or so
<sivang> everywhere the ubuntu universe things look too quite for a friday afternoon :)
<bddebian> Except you, me, Toadstool, and slomo__ aparently :-)
<Toadstool> :)
<sivang> yes, apparently :)
<slomo__> Toadstool: still compiling? =)
<Toadstool> yes :)
<bddebian> Hello jaldhar
<Toadstool> slomo__: I think i'm going to beat the world longest compile time record :)
<kelmo> hi siretart
<bddebian> Toadstool: Nothing beats build glibc on GNU/Hurd, trust me! ;-)
<Toadstool> heh
<crimsun> it's compilable?  /me ducks
<Toadstool> :D
<bddebian> crimsun: touche' :-)
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> Hi there bddebian :)
<siretart> hey kelmo
<ivoks> :((((((((
<Mithrandir> bddebian: that takes more than a week on top-notch hardware?
<ivoks> man... i'm so angry and sad
<tritium> ivoks: about what?
<kelmo> siretart: did you have your break yet?
<ivoks> tritium: about newest IT news in croatia
<siretart> kelmo: I just returned home :)
<bddebian> Mithrandir: Nah, my longest is only about 2 days so far :-)
<tritium> ivoks: I've not heard.  What happened?
<LaserJock> hi bddebian and tritium
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<tritium> Hi LaserJock
<ivoks> tritium: company that has 60% of Internet in croatia buyed other company (wich has 30%)
<Mithrandir> bddebian: try axiom on m68k some day. :-P
<tritium> Oh...
<ivoks> so.. now we have one ISP
<siretart> kelmo: fortunately, there was a nice neighbor of the hotel, who offered a unsecured wireless ap, which I used for a ssh or to to read & answer some emails :)
<ivoks> and that's the worst one
<tritium> ivoks: :(
<kelmo> siretart: i noticed ; )
<siretart> :)
<kelmo> siretart: trust the trip was a good one then
<siretart> hi ivoks!
<siretart> ivoks: nice to see you back. and in action :)
<ivoks> siretart: hi yeah...
<ivoks> siretart: things can changes since prices will go up now :)
<siretart> the trip to vienna was nice. very nice city, charming people, we had a great time :)
<bddebian> OK damnit, why can't scilab find Xaw3d and Xmu?
<ivoks> bddebian: it looks for them in /usr/X11R6?
<bddebian> ivoks: I changed configure.in and did an autoreconf so it shouldn't ??
<azeem> check the config.log
<bddebian> azeem: Bah, that's like work :-)
<v3rmap> I'm trying to install gtk2 dev libs on Dapper flight 6, but hit some errors:http://pastebin.com/659830
<v3rmap> Any suggestions on what to try to fix the problems?
<azeem> v3rmap: you're trying to install breezy's libgtk2.0-dev
<v3rmap> azeem, I need the dapper version of the lib. I had breezy and I upgraded. Is there something else I should try?
<azeem> maybe apt-cache policy libgtk2.0-dev
<azeem> see whether that gives you some hints
<azeem> or try apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev=2.8.16-1ubuntu1 or something
<azeem> I'm off, bye
<v3rmap> bye, thanks.
<Toadstool> slomo__: still building... :/
<slomo__> Toadstool: unbelievable... would be interesting to know whether this finishes at all or just sits in a endless loop
<Toadstool> yep... but no output at all and I can't see a way to diagnose what's going on...
<slomo__> me neither... but that's normal
<Toadstool> i think i'm going to kill the gij process and see what I can do to get a more verbose output
<Toadstool> slomo__: http://pastebin.com/659958 <-- end of the buildlog
<slomo__> after you killed it?
<Toadstool> yep
<slomo__> ok... everything normal ;)
<Toadstool> 24592.9 seconds <- nice ^^
<slomo__> that's not normal :P
<Toadstool> heh
<Toadstool> slomo__: trying to build with verbose output
<slomo> Toadstool: thanks :)
<Toadstool> np, I have cpu cycles to share ;)
<slomo> Toadstool: you could also try to run it for the next week ;)
<Toadstool> heh
<siretart> slomo: hey sebastian!
<slomo> siretart: hi :)
<Toadstool> slomo: according to the verbose output, it's really building something but really really slowly :D
<slomo> Toadstool: so my guess was probably right... only interpreted on amd64 :/
<Toadstool> yep :/
<slomo> want to write a decent JIT? ;)
<Toadstool> huhu :)
<Toadstool> I definitely ban Java and .NET/Mono from my known languages :p
<slomo> why? ;)
<trappist> somebody spelled definitely right.  that always makes my day.
<crimsun> I can definately misspell wurds.
<trappist> I notised
<LaserJock> trappist: haha, are you going to start checking all the changelogs for spelling/grammar?
<trappist> I'll leave the changelogs alone.  but I've started my campaign to fix config file comments, man pages, error messages, etc.
<Toadstool> that's a huge campaign :)
<trappist> yeah
<trappist> a lot of developers have a first language other than english, and a lot of others just don't care, but I think the spelling and grammar problems make for a nasty smear on the polish
<Toadstool> agreed
<crimsun> trappist: just be aware of regional differences
<crimsun> for instance, American English tends to use "different from" rather than "different to"
<trappist> crimsun: sure - I don't try to "correct" colour to color, etc.
<trappist> crimsun: that stuff too.  all my favorite authors are british, so I can spot those.
<trappist> I mostly go after my personal pet peeves, like its/it's, their/they're/there, your/you're, etc.
<trappist> and of course defin[^(ite)] ly
<Toadstool> :D
<bddebian> slomo: What is Sivangs package on REVU??
<slomo> bddebian: it's not on revu
<slomo> look at the mail
<bddebian> Oh, heh
<bddebian> Hmm, doesn't build for me :-)
<zul> help
<zul> oops...heylo
<zul> hmmm....my uploads to universe seems to be dropping for some reason..
<Yagisan> morning all
<Yagisan> tseng: I've actually scripted up pbuilders on tmpfs here, so I'm more likely to take either the pbuilderrc option, or script up a package like pentium-builder
<bddebian> Heya Yagisan
<Yagisan> morning/evening bddebian
* Yagisan mubles about shops closing
<Yagisan> bddebian: enjoying your break ?
<bddebian> No, not feeling well and trying to fix bugs I can't fix :-(  You?
<Yagisan> bddebian: just woke up today (OMG I woke up at 7am, not 2pm, the world is ending!), and thoroughly cursing the fact that most shops have shut over the easter break.
<Yagisan> bddebian: what's wrong ? eat something you shouldn't have ?
<bddebian> Nah, getting a cold I think :-(
<ivoks> ok, this day will be remebered by cups hell :)
<mitsuhiko> someone pinged me today?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-20
<crimsun> hmm... on whom should I blame bug #39585? ;)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39585 in celestia "celestia uninstallable in dapper" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39585
* bddebian hides in the corner
<bddebian> It's on my TODO list :-(
<crimsun> want me to take it?
<bddebian> If you want to.  It takes an eon to build just so you know :-)
<crimsun> thanks to the glut stuff, I'm sure
<bddebian> Maybe I should have just stayed away from MOTU stuff :-(
<crimsun> pfft.
<crimsun> yay for a.u.c. spitting errors
<bddebian>  a.u.c?
<crimsun> archive.ubuntu.com
<crimsun> trappist: ping
<bddebian> ah
<crimsun> bddebian: the desktop file was being installed into the wrong package, i.e., -common instead of -glut.
<bddebian> crimsun: Yeah, I knew that (after the fact of course)
<crimsun> bddebian: I'm also attempting to avoid strong versioned depends, but that may be necessary.
<crimsun> as soon as trappist checks in with which version is being upgraded...
<bddebian> Ah
<cartel_> hey all
<ajmitch> hello
<jaldhar> is minghua on holiday or something?  I haven't seen him around for awhile
<bddebian> Heya cartel_, ajmitch, jaldhar
<imbrandon> 'ello everyone
<bddebian> Hello imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya
<jaldhar> hi bddebian
<bddebian> What the hell do I do about undefined automake macros?
<bddebian> crimsun: Still awake?  (Hell, still building celestia? ;-P)
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> hi bddebian
<Toadstool> g'night everybody
<bddebian> Gnight Toadstool
<crimsun> bddebian: sup?
<bddebian> crimsun: You know much about custom automake macros?
<crimsun> bddebian: no, sorry. I've looked at what Xfce uses, but that's about it.
<crimsun> gah, I'm going to need a svn snap to fix this matroska issue. :(
<bddebian> Joy
<crimsun> Sam is going to slay me.
<trappist> crimsun: check in with which version what?
<crimsun> trappist: what version of celestia were you attempting to upgrade from?
<trappist> crimsun: I don't have that box handy anymore, but it was initially installed months ago and I dist-upgrade daily, so I have to assume the most recent version
<trappist> but that ticket has been closed with fix-released
<crimsun> yes, I closed it an hour ago
<crimsun> I need to make sure the fix wasn't necessary for 1.3.x where x!=2
<trappist> ah.  I just tried on this box, but I don't have celestia installed.  I don't suppose there's a way to ask dpkg what was previously installed
<crimsun> you can grep the dpkg.log
* crimsun heads out before the coffee shop closes
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Gaaahh, I can't fix shit tonight :'-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: file bugs in debian instead
<bddebian> ajmitch: ?
<ajmitch> bddebian: for all those .desktop files you've added
<ajmitch> unless you want to have th fun of merging them all for dapper+1
<bddebian> ajmitch: I have an email folder full of them to submit after dapper :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: You know automake dont ya?
<ajmitch> depends on what problem you're having
<bddebian> On two packages tonight I've had problem with custom automake macros
<bddebian> aclocal and therefore autoreconf puke because of them
<ajmitch> fun
<bddebian> ajmitch: Do you know how they are defined?
<bddebian> Or are supposed to be defined?
<ajmitch> by someone sitting at a keyboard & hitting keys
<bddebian> You are so helpful :-)
<ajmitch> of course
<bddebian> ajmitch: OK, how about xmkmf? :-)
<ajmitch> what about it?
<calamari> hi
<bddebian> Hello calamari
<calamari> just wanted to report a packaging problem.. celestia 1.3.2-3.1ubuntu2 conflicts with celestia-common 1.3.2-3.1ubuntu2
<bddebian> ajmitch: I didn't think it was supposed to use /ect/X11/config/cf anymore?
<bddebian> calamari: Been fixed
<calamari> bddebian: ahh, okay.. when does the fix come out?
<bddebian> calamari: I believe crimsun uploaded it a couple of hours ago
<calamari> oh, does it rebuild the package list immediabtely upon upload?  neat
<calamari> guess he hasn't yet then.. but that's okay .  thanks for letting me know of the fix
<bddebian> NP
<calamari> btw, is there any type of info that tells me what changed.. I never know what to test
<bddebian> calamari: I put the desktop file in the wrong package
<calamari> no I mean in general
<bddebian> You can look at the changelog
<calamari> ahh, indeed.. thank you
<nictuku> hi all
<calamari> hi nictuku
<crimsun> calamari: are you trying to upgrade to celestia | 1.3.2-3.1ubuntu3 ?
<calamari> crimsun: nope, it was 2
<calamari> I got the update to 3 shortly after and it was fine
<calamari> so problem solved :)  thanks
<crimsun> good.
<LaserJock> yeah crimsun
<LaserJock> go crimsun go!
* crimsun reassigns bugs to LaserJock 
<LaserJock> ugghh, I'm trying to be the MOTU cheerleader so I don't have to actually *fix* anything
<LaserJock> ;-)
<crimsun> no way dude, we're old hats at that :p
<LaserJock> heh, dholbach has you trained
* nictuku wonders if/how ubuntu members can *send* e-mails from their @ubuntu.com address.
<crimsun> configure your MUA
<nictuku> crimsun, fiordland.ubuntu.com won't relay the e-mails.
<nictuku> and SASL support seems not be available. well that's not that important anyway
<bintut> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<bintut> anyone cares on LTSP4.2 packages for 32bit Sparc machines?
<bintut> i already have a request posted at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<bintut> it's the first line of all requests
<bintut>  I would like to make use of my old Sun JavaStation JK (Krups) thin clients to boot via LTSP-4.2 on an Ubuntu GNU/Linux AMD64 server. Due to the fact that I don't have a Sun Sparc machine to compile and build a binary LTSP-4.2 packages for my Sun JavaStation JKs, I am seeking help for whoever can help me build LTSP-4.2 binary packages for my thin clients. You can find relevant informations at the following URLs:  http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/L
<bintut> tsp/LBE ; http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/JavaStation-HOWTO/index.html ; http://math.univ-lille1.fr/ltsp-sparc/ ; http://people.redhat.com/zaitcev/linux/ ; http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6125/linux/javastation.html
<crimsun> bintut: sorry, but we're not going to have ltsp 4.2 in dapper
<crimsun> bintut: dapper+1 is feasible
<bintut> crimsun: what do you mean?
<bintut> crimsun: what's dapper+1 ?
<crimsun> bintut: the name of the ubuntu release after dapper
<bintut> crimsun: i got here 11 units of javastations unused and i want to use them all using dapper and ltsp
<crimsun> bintut: we don't touch ltsp; it's a main package
<crimsun> MOTU deals with universe and multiverse
<bintut> crimsun: can you build the LTSP-4.2 packages for Sun JavaStations JK (Krups) or for 32bit sparc machines in general?
<crimsun> bintut: no
<bintut> crimsun: ltsp for x86 is a main package but i'm requesting for 32bit sparc machines
<crimsun> bintut: it would still be a main package
<bintut> crimsun: and i believe, it would fall unto universe and/or multiverse
<crimsun> no. it's main.
<crimsun> I think fabio keeps up to date on sparc, but I can't speak for him
<bintut> oh..
<bintut> and that would mean that my 11 units of sun javastations will still be unusuable.. and might forever be.. :(
<crimsun> sorry, but that's not an issue we can resolve in dapper.
<bintut> crimsun: it's ok..
<crimsun> you may want to talk to ogra about ltsp; he has made modifications to those packages and ultimately knows more about them
<bintut> crimsun: what about porting it to native 32bit sparcs?
<crimsun> bintut: what about it?
<bintut> crimsun: nevermind.. thanks anyway.. :)
<crimsun> l
<nomed> hi all
<Yagisan> G'day MOTU's, hows your easter weekend ?
<jsgotangco> working?
<jsgotangco> :)
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: at least you have something to do, it's rather dead here.
<jsgotangco> heh just some quick mash up jobs before going offline for easter
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: are you experienced in packaging ? I have a package of mine that makes 1 deb, and I'd like to change so it makes a few .debs (I benchmarked it and it has significant performance gains with some -march flags)
<kelmo> moin
<Yagisan> G'day kelmo
<kelmo> gday to you too Yagisan
* Yagisan watches the tumbleweeds roll past.
<kelmo> you're down in nsw right?
<Yagisan> kelmo: yep. Sydney
<kelmo> whats it like down there now, getting a bit nipply?
<Toadstool> hi here
<Yagisan> kelmo: it is a bit nippy in the morning and evening. Last few days have been warmer then usual
<Yagisan> so anyone feel like going over some packaging questions with me ?
<Yagisan> it hopefully won't take much time
<kelmo> shoot, maybe we could both learn something
<Yagisan> kelmo: I have a package, it makes 1 .deb from the source, I'd like to make it generate several .debs from the source by rebuilding it with different CFLAGS. I did some benchmarking a discovered that it actually can benefit from it
<lifeless> Yagisan: are these going to be debs of the same binary ?
<Yagisan> lifeless: yes
<lifeless> Yagisan: like, foobar for 686, foobar for 386 etc ?
<Yagisan> lifeless: exactly
<lifeless> its fairly unusual to do this
<Yagisan> I've never made a package like that, so I'm unsure of what to do
<lifeless> you could dig up the mplayer sources, they do this
<kelmo> yeah mplayer/mencoder
<kelmo> i don't know if mencoder still does it
<Yagisan> ok. I'll check now. I found a large jump in fps while benchmarking, so I thought it would be worth the effort of splitting the package
<lifeless> Yagisan: what package is it ?
<Yagisan> lifeless: deng. Not yet ready for inclusion in Ubuntu, but I have an older packge in revu
<lifeless> xiaoping ?
<Yagisan> lifeless: it's a doom engine. I'm helping upstream sort out copyright issues and become fully gpl compatible with the raven licensed parts easily able to be stripped.
<Yagisan> ok. current mencoder uses runtime cpu detection
<kelmo> hey siretart
<siretart> heyho kelmo
<kelmo> siretart: hows our friend felix?
<kelmo> in fine form i think
<siretart> kelmo: I hope that he begins to be constructive soon...
<kelmo> siretart: indeed
<kelmo> siretart: but he has brought up a good point recently
<kelmo> will look at that new bug/problem now
<siretart> you mean debian bug #362745?
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 362745 in wpasupplicant "Subject: wpasupplicant: Managed mode leaves wpa_supplicant running if ifup fails" [Normal,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/362745
<siretart> indeed
<siretart> but I think this is rather easy to fix
<Yagisan> that was odd. my system locked up :(
<kelmo> well, yes and no
<kelmo> siretart: have done a bit of work on madwifi-ng lately
<kelmo> siretart: please try it sometime
<siretart> kelmo: sounds really promising. will do when I find time. first I need to find out how to disable the old drivers
<kelmo> you could just rename them or so, but that is not dpkg friendly
<siretart> perhaps I could blacklist them
<siretart> does madwifi-ng use the same names for the kernel modules?
<kelmo> basically, yes
<kelmo> slight differences, but primary modules are the same
<Tonio_> hum, concerning wifi, I recently tested the vpn modules to network-manager, and that was working fine with knetworkmanager frontend
<Tonio_> any reason they haven't been uploaded and revued still ?
<Tonio_> I might revu except if there is a real issue with them
<siretart> gnarf
<siretart> then blacklisting is a nogo :(
<Tonio_> siretart: hi ;)
<siretart> hi Tonio_
<Yagisan> ok. looking through a few sample .debs it seems all I should need to do is copy the source directory x times, change to the copies, and configure and build them.
<Tonio_> siretart: do you think it is in keubuck's plan to have vpn modules added ? he removed the "vpn removing" patches from network-manager so... ^^
<Tonio_> s/keubuck/keybuck
<kelmo> siretart: maybe two possibilities to the wpasup bug
<kelmo> siretart: either we check in post-up if there is success (not really easy, i think)
<kelmo> siretart: or simply kill/restart existing processes on ifup
<kelmo> well, there is no post-up as such
<kelmo> so we'll go with plan B huh ;)
<siretart> kelmo: I already suggested the 2nd. seems easy and straight forward to me
<kelmo> yep, i was just thinking aloud
<jpatrick> can we upload NEW packages?
<Hobbsee> bug 30796
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30796 in vim "Syntax highlighting in sources.list is wrong" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30796
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: can I help you? :)
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: nah, was just looking it it - someone mentioned it
* Hobbsee was lazy
<phanatic> hi people
<jpatrick> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hello jpatrick
<kelmo> siretart: can you reproduce the bug from Felix?
<kelmo> siretart: i think he really misunderstands ifupdown, unless i am mistaken
<siretart> kelmo: I think he misunderstands quite a lot of thinks, but ifupdown seem to confuse him terribly
<siretart> kelmo: I haven't had the chance to look deeper into the issue yet
<kelmo> siretart: when you ifup a device, and the dhcp inet method fails, the device is still marked as "up"
<kelmo> and as such, wpa_supplicant remains open
<siretart> so you have to ifdown the interface
<kelmo> if you manually cancel an ifup invokation, you take it upon your self to clean up imho
<siretart> sounds reasonable
<kelmo> of course you need to ifdown first
<kelmo> even with --force
<siretart> I assume ifdown kills the supplicant in any case, no?
<kelmo> yes
<siretart> hm.
<siretart> whats the issue then?
<kelmo> i think:
<kelmo> he gets unpatient when no dhcp offer is given
<kelmo> and manually kills ifupdown
<kelmo> i think we can make minor improvements
<siretart> if he kills ifupdown, he would have to ifdown the interface anyway
<Mithrandir> siretart: that's a regression from earlier releases.
<kelmo> well, I do not get the problem yet
<Mithrandir> it used to work to just do C-c, then arrow-up RET
<siretart> because the interface should be marked 'up' in ifstate
<kelmo> yeah
<Mithrandir> no, it shouldn't.
<kelmo> comments welcome
<Mithrandir> it shouldn't be marked up until the method has completed successfully.
<siretart> Mithrandir: so in this case, what should ifupdown do with a running supplicant?
<Mithrandir> siretart: kill it.
<Mithrandir> IMO
<kelmo> even on up?
<Mithrandir> if you do ifup and then press C-c before you get your prompt back, everything should revert to what it was previously.
<kelmo> how does bridge-utils, wireless-utils do this . . .
<Mithrandir> wireless-utils doesn't have any daemon
<Mithrandir> bridge-utils I'm not sure about.  It doesn't have a daemon either, iirc.
<siretart> Mithrandir: will, this isn't possible to implement. we start a daemon in /etc/network/if-pre-up.d. How should ifupdown know how to kill the daemon on ctrl-c?
<kelmo> no, but cancellation in the middle of a process is not easy to trap
<StevenK> Espically when forking off children.
<siretart> the best we can do is probably checking if there is already an instance running and kill it before starting
<Mithrandir> siretart: it could trap the C-c and then run if-down.d, maybe.  Or have a mechanism to notify those daemons that they should stop.
<siretart> Mithrandir: ok, so you think this is rather an ifupdown bug...
<siretart> debian bug #360806 sounds related...
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 360806 in ifupdown "Subject: ifupdown: ignores post-down scripts with udev" [Important,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/360806
<Mithrandir> there is an ifupdown bug about it at least.
<kelmo> siretart: when reproduced, wpasupplicant/ifupdown.sh exits with error 1 anyhow
<kelmo> so it is really this C-c thing that is dogging it
<siretart> ah, I see
<kelmo> like you said, it would be trivial to kill the process silently, i think
<kelmo> but just seems "uneccessary"
<kelmo> but his bug report was typically not 100% clear either
<siretart> hm. I don't see a problem in killing the process silently. I mean we would start another instance anyway
<siretart> at that point
<kelmo> sure, just looks a bit ugly, and i'm not sure it addresses the real problem here
<ivoks> hi
<freeflying> slomo__: ping
<kelmo> ok, that'll be the solution for now then
<slomo__> freeflying: pong
<freeflying> slomo__:  malone #35772
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35772 in quarry "installs to /usr/games/bin/" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35772
<slomo__> freeflying: sorry, i'm busy currently
<ivoks> slomo__: looks like we will have to upload new version of libetpan after all :)
<freeflying> slomo__: I just need UVFe for upload new package
<slomo__> freeflying: NEW package? or new upstream version? the bug only has a small diff
<siretart> freeflying: we still need a uvf report
<freeflying> slomo__:  new upstream version
<freeflying> siretart: was done about 3 weks ago
<slomo__> freeflying: is there a uvf report somewhere?
<freeflying> slomo__:  on mailing list (ubuntu-motu)
<freeflying> slomo__: and I assigned this bug to motu-uvf too
<siretart> freeflying: wasn't it grated that back then?
<freeflying> siretart: no reply
<siretart> freeflying: could you please copy the reports from that old report to that bug then please?
<freeflying> The main quarry executable is installed in /usr/games/bin/quarry. This should be /usr/games/quarry instead.
<freeflying> siretart: and I don't know sho uploaded this one , after all I have upload the latest release to REVU already
<freeflying> s/sho/who
<siretart> freeflying: I'd like to see the diffstat, changelog and buildlog first, before granting an exception
<freeflying> siretart:  sorry , I didn't attach those , I'd attach it later
<siretart> kelmo: nobse is unhappy about the timeing of the last wpasupplicant upload. one day more, and -2 would have made it to testing, and probably to sarge-backports. now it has to wait for the new glibc to enter testing
<kelmo> siretart: well, i was not to know about this situation
<siretart> kelmo: I wasn't aware either
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bmonty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<kelmo> siretart: i committed the workaround
<kelmo> siretart: will investigate further though
<freeflying> anyone know how to get the log of pbuilder when I build a program
<jpatrick> sudo pbuilder build *.dsc > buildd.log
<freeflying> jpatrick: thx
<jpatrick> no problem
<Tonio_> jpatrick: that's not nice, you will not get the full output
<jpatrick> oh right
<Tonio_> sudo pbuilder build -o buildd.log *.dsc
<Tonio_> that's the good one :)
<jpatrick> ah okay *adds to knowledge*
<Tonio_> freeflying: you're welcome :) ^^
<freeflying> :)
<freeflying> seems today is kubuntu team's day :)
<Tonio_> freeflying: hehe :)
<jpatrick> i just have to finish 6 pages of school work...
<freeflying> jpatrick: then tea time
* Tonio_ is happy not to be at school anymore ;)
<Tonio_> week-ends are now REAL week-ends :)
<jpatrick> Tonio_: :(
<jpatrick> one sec...... damn, three more years
<Tonio_> jpatrick: don't mind, remember that I may die before you ;)
<freeflying> siretart: ping
<jpatrick> freeflying: oh, I do love tea time
<freeflying> jpatrick: how about green tea :)
<jpatrick> not sure. :)
<siretart> freeflying: pong (but need to leave soon!)
<freeflying> siretart: attached all things :)
<siretart> freeflying: I got the email and had a look at the changelog/diffstat, and already answered you
<siretart> freeflying: the changelog doesn't look complete (or it doesn't match the diffstat)
<freeflying> siretart: seems my failt
<KriS|work> hi
<jpatrick> hi KriS|work
<KriS|work> where can I get a working transcode package from for breezy?
<KriS|work> This is the error I get when using the one from multiverse: http://pastebin.ca/49431
<KriS|work> If I'm in the wring channel, please direct me to the right one
<slomo> better file a bug about this :)
<slomo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/transcode/+filebug
<KriS|work> hmm. k but I guess it won't be fixed in this version anymore hmm?
<slomo> maybe... someone should have a closer look... but it looks like only like a linking mistake that should be easily to solve
<ozamosi> KriS|work: #ubuntu is for support questions - maybe someone knows a work around.
<KriS|work> k I'll give it a try
<slomo> KriS|work: but please also file a bug... otherwise nobody will fix this maybe ;)
<KriS|work> I was here quite a while agi cos of a ICU bug.. I was asshured it would be fixed.. never was.. now I know why :(
<slomo> KriS|work: i would look into the transcode bug now but i have to leave in ~5 minutes... a bugreport as reminder is always better
<KriS|work> slomo, sure.. I'm just registering :)
<KriS|work> submited
<crimsun> KriS|work: is your transcode bug #39678 on Breezy or Dapper?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39678 in transcode "Error when trying to transcode a avi file." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39678
<KriS|work> Breezy
<KriS|work> But I guess tis was already submited
<KriS|work> I just found something
<crimsun> afaik it's already fixed in Dapper.
<KriS|work> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/transcode/+bug/3399
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3399 in transcode "transcode : undefined symbol : dts_init" [Normal,Fix released] 
<crimsun> the Breezy package is broken due to my kludge/fight with ffmpeg source-binary split in the repo.
<KriS|work> hmm
<KriS|work> crimsun, do you have a fixed deb I could use?
<crimsun> I don't, but you can compile transcode yourself
<KriS|work> want to guide me? :)
<crimsun> alternately, try Dapper (it's fixed in Dapper)
<KriS|work> hmm
<KriS|work> crimsun, if I wanted to compile it myself its the last pach you submited right?
<\sh> moins motus :)
<KriS|work> pach = patch*
<crimsun> moin \sh
<\sh> hey crimsun, how it's going?
<crimsun> \sh: not bad, attempting to enjoy Easter break, yourself?
<crimsun> KriS|work: yes, use the last patch
<\sh> well...if I would say, great, it would be a lie...but hope my problems will be solved soon...
<crimsun> \sh: we're all rooting for you :)
<\sh> crimsun: hehe, I have to start from scratch later on :)
<jpatrick> moin \sh
<\sh> huhu jpatrick :)
<jpatrick> now there are two kubuntu core-devs :|
<crimsun> who, raphink and jriddell?
<jpatrick> yep
<crimsun> remember that every core dev is potentially a kubuntu core dev, too :)
<jpatrick> and raphink's on holiday and jr's out of action right now
<\sh> what, raphink got hired by canonical? :)
<bddebian> crimsun: Even me? ;-P
<bddebian> Oh I'm not a core dev :-)
* \sh was core-dev :) god knows when I get back my rights..let the future decide
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<\sh> bddebian: time for you to apply for main rights :)
<\sh> bddebian: u need to replace me dude :)
<crimsun> yeah, go bddebian!
<jpatrick> Riddell told me to watch out for core-dev
<crimsun> \sh: I dunno about hired, but he has main privs
<\sh> crimsun: ah...main privs are easy to get :)
<LaserJock> \sh: raphink wasn't hired by canonical, but he made core-dev to relieve some pressure off of Riddell I think
<jpatrick> or so says his wikipage
<\sh> well..the pressure will come even to him :) Because 2 people or 3 can't take the power of 10 other gnome devs, even if they're officially not working on gnome :)
<crimsun> ok, this "not being able to select a default sound card out of multiple ones" in KDE is bugging me
<\sh> anyways, I'm preparing also some patches and enhancements to some kde stuff for kubuntu, e.g. kio_apt is totally ugly crap...needs to be fixed in my eyes :)
<jpatrick> \sh: sounds great to me :)
<\sh> crimsun: is working :)
<crimsun> I suppose it makes sense to go into System Settings> Audio
<\sh> crimsun: use kmix applet, and select the mixer you want to have
<crimsun> \sh: but that doesn't set the default one
<\sh> crimsun: no...the default one you set in .asoundrc in your home, sadly...I fought with it long time now, for my headset
<crimsun> right, and that's the catch-all that needs to be set with asoundconf set
<crimsun> will look tonight
<\sh> crimsun: a kde frontend is missing
<crimsun> yeah, it just needs to mimic what gnome-control-center does
<LaserJock> is the problem for Kubuntu that too much has to be in Main without having enough core-devs working on it?
<\sh> the problem is, that the integration part of kubuntu is a heavy part to take care of. Many things are coming from SuSE and therefore the KDE main things are based on suse and rpm based systems.
<jpatrick> LaserJock: my problem is that most of my packs have ended up in main
<crimsun> LaserJock: the problem is exacerbated by it, yes
<\sh> e.g. you can't bring a network configuration tool into main, which doesn't work correctly, like in kde. It's working yes, but is it working properly? No. And there is noone, who can take care of those things, because the dev work is done by others, not riddell or raphink. But these are things to take care of, a better integration.
<\sh> If the default tools are not working properly with a debian based system, we have to adjust it to work, or create another small utitility which fits to our needs
<KriS|work> crimsun, thx for the patch. Works just fine :)
<crimsun> KriS|work: np.
<LaserJock> so do we just need to encourage more MOTUs to become core-devs as well to work on Kubuntu?
<cbx33> evenin all
<cbx33> fixed my bug that wasn;t really a bug
<\sh> LaserJock: no..we need more kde developer in general, and they won't come
<cbx33> someone hadn;t done their research before submitting the bug report
<jpatrick> too busy with kde4
<LaserJock> \sh: ah, so it is more of a problem getting kde on board?
<\sh> yes
<bddebian> crimsun, \sh: I think the main folks are smart enough not to trust me. :-)
<bddebian> If I can get another box running I think I want to try kubuntu
* bddebian used to run xfce or kde before Ubuntu
<\sh> bddebian: come on, not again, I trusted you with universe rights, and now it's up to you to show them "Hey, I'm Barry, and I want main " :)
<LaserJock> I think a particular wiki page should suffice to convince them ;-)
<crimsun> of course, we all know bddebianisgod.
<Kyral> Finally got around to getting a USB Pen Drive
<Kyral> Now to drop an encrypted disk image on it for my GPG Key
<crimsun> can't you just ask one of your professors for one?
<Kyral> me?
<crimsun> I have a stock of about a hundred that I hand out to my students
<Kyral> heh
<Kyral> I'm putting my GPG Key on this one
<Kyral> and it was only 30 bucks
<crimsun> 512+
<bddebian> Damn, I keep meaning to delete that page
<Kyral> 256 MB
<Kyral> I only really need it as a glorified Floppy
<crimsun> bddebian: once google cache gets to it, you may as well ;)
<jpatrick> slomo: around?
<crimsun> he left about 2 1/2 hours ago
<jpatrick> so who am I gonna get a UVF exception from...
<\sh> beta freeze dude :)
<jpatrick> universe package
<crimsun> jpatrick: you may still get one, but it's Easter...
<\sh> doesn'
* Tm_T still wonders what will happen to kopete package
<\sh> 't catch the beta freeze every archive?
<crimsun> \sh: purportedly, but...
<jpatrick> I didn't think it affected universe
<\sh> it should, because the build daemons are as well in beta freeze, right? when I understood kamion mail the right way
<jpatrick> I just want to ship a stable version of kbfx
<jpatrick> and not the cvs that's in the archives
<crimsun> jpatrick: well, it'll be processed sooner than later, perhaps Monday/Tuesday, but it _is_ Easter break.
<\sh> ok guys...happy easter and everything good for you and your family :)
<Kyral> hmm is it really a good idea to nuke the old ~/.gnupg directory once you transfer the Keys to the Encrypted device?
<crimsun> it's never a good idea to nuke stuff related to gnupg
<Kyral> yah so keep it around as a backup?
<crimsun> I do, but that's just me
<crimsun> though I do store it offsite
<Kyral> Yah I'm gonna stash it in a password protected tarball
<Kyral> if I can recall how to make one...
<sivang> slomo: hey
<sivang> slomo: 'sup?
<Kyral> Oh I'll do it later
<Kyral> dinner is on now :D
<sivang> slomo: had any chance to review the package other then the suggestions to make it a native version ?
<bddebian> crimsun: You run xfce or kde?
<crimsun> gnome.
<bddebian> Hmm
<bddebian> Anyone running one of the two in here?
* highvoltage runs both
<crimsun> I occasionally install Xfce or KDE (then purge) to test some changes
<bddebian> Can someone install spacearyarya and see if it works under kde and/or xfce?
<highvoltage> bddebian: depends how large it is, i'm on a very expensive EDGE connection :(
<bddebian> I believe it's fairly small
<highvoltage> 259kb, should be manageble
<zul> heylo
<bddebian> Heya Zul
<zul> hey bddebian how is it going?
<bddebian> OK, thanks. You?
<highvoltage> heh. cool game.
<highvoltage> bddebian: it works in xfce
<zul> bddebian: good
<bddebian> Damnit, I don't get it
<bddebian> With gnome it complains about KXL
<highvoltage> bddebian: and also kde.
<ajmitch> hi
<highvoltage> bddebian: i mean, it works in kde, as apposed to it gives the error in kde
<bddebian> highvoltage: ?
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<highvoltage> 22:45 < bddebian> With gnome it complains about KXL
<highvoltage> 22:45 < highvoltage> bddebian: and also kde.
<bddebian> Ahh, gotcha :-)
<bddebian> Damn I could have the buildd's nearly to myself and I can't fix anything lately.. :'-(
<bddebian> highvoltage: Did you start it from the menu or the command line?
<highvoltage> bddebian: i press alt+f2 and then type in spacearyarya
<highvoltage> bddebian: i'll run it from a terminal to see if it shows errors...
<highvoltage> bddebian: no errors reporting in xfce running from gnome-terminal
<bddebian> Whacky
<highvoltage> bddebian: no errors reported in kde running under xterm
<highvoltage> addictive little game, though.
<bddebian> I wouldn't know since it won't run on Gnome :-)
* highvoltage tries it under gnome too
<highvoltage> bddebian: yeah, i also get the KXL error message. it then complains about not being able to open a bitstream font and closes down
<bddebian> Yep :-(
<highvoltage> sudo apt-get install openssh-server
<highvoltage> bah! wrong keyboard
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Weird, geki3 uses libkxl0 also but it works fine
<zul> anyone know why my uploads might be dropping?
<ajmitch> zul: beta freeze
<zul> ok..even for bug fixes?
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> they said it may go into manual mode :)
<zul> ok..bah
<bddebian> highvoltage: Still here?
<highvoltage> bddebian: yep
<highvoltage> bddebian: where else would i be on saturday night on easter weekend? :)
<bddebian> Oh, nm, that wouldn't make any sense anyway....
<highvoltage> ok.
<\sh> re
<bddebian> wb \sh
<bddebian> Damn what the hell fonts is libkxl0 using?
<\sh> anyone played around with debian-cd once in a while?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-21
<bmonty> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bmonty!
<LaserJock> how's the family?
<Kyral> Well, decided to do something different with my USB Pendrive
<\sh> boot stick for ubuntu? :)
<Kyral> No
<\sh> or DSL boot :)
<Kyral> close :P
<Kyral> DSL :P
<\sh> hehe...
<\sh> I knew it :)
<Kyral> One thing though
<Kyral> where the hell do I put MyDSL extensions so that they will load on boot?
<\sh> never played with DSL :)
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> bastard...
<\sh> trying to play with debian-cd with the patches from kamion
<Kyral> hehe
<\sh> after that, when I did my first ubuntu install cd image by myself, I'm doing live cds :)
<Kyral> Well, I figure a bootable Linux distro thats NOT a LiveCD would be most useful
<\sh> hmm..that's easy to accomplish with gentoo :)
<\sh> and catalyst
<\sh> but handwork like shit
<Kyral> Yah, but DSL's is literally a click on a menu :P
<\sh> too easy :)
<Kyral> oy....
<Kyral> Yanno thats why I run Arch on this machine right now :P
<\sh> when I was at redhat I played with the sysadmin cd...in businesscard format :)
<Kyral> when I upgrade this summer (2x Dual Core Opterons BABY :D)
<Kyral> I'll jump this one to Gentoo just to see how insanely fast it will compile :D
<\sh> lol
<\sh> forget it :)
<\sh> I compiled it on a ibm blade server with 16 boards :) dual cpu board :) that was fun
<\sh> but just a burn in test with a running seti on high prio...damn..those boards were burning :)
<Kyral> bah you7
<Kyral> but this is for my Desktop :D
<LaserJock> heh, I don't think I'll be going back to Gentoo anytime soon
<\sh> why?
<Kyral> I did once
<Kyral> and I keep thinking about it
<Kyral> but right now, ArchLinux suits my Desktop perfectly
<Kyral> Xubuntu is sitting on my lappy of course :D
<LaserJock> I just found that it wasn't worth it. Ubuntu/Debian work fine for me
<Kyral> Though I might wind up making my own Fluxbox based -Desktop package for personal use :D
<LaserJock> with gentoo I just spent all my time compiling and not enough time using
<\sh> oh well...writing ebuilds and stuff was fun
<\sh> it was a shame that daniel robbins declined marks offer
<LaserJock> Openbox >> Fluxbox :p
<LaserJock> \sh: mark made an offer? that would have been sweet
<Kyral> meh
<\sh> wow...just reanimated my hoard pbuilder on my internet machine
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I got DNS working :D
<\sh> he tried to get drobbins before MS :)
<LaserJock> I was sure sad when drobbins went to MS, that was about the time I jumped from Gentoo
<\sh> anyways..how it's going with the motu work in general?
<\sh> ah well....wife and 2 kids..you have to think about your purse ...
<LaserJock> seems pretty good
<LaserJock> \sh: for sure, I can understand that
<\sh> anyways...he left ms as fast as he jumped onto this ship :)
<lifeless> LaserJock: we had no rep at the time
<Kyral> huh?
<Kyral> \sh, "jumped onto this ship"?
<LaserJock> lifeless: ah
<\sh> he left ms as fast as he joined ms....better? :)
<LaserJock> \sh: do you know what he is doing now?
<\sh> ceo or cto of a software company for some weired shit :)
<\sh> http://www.abccodes.com/ali/bio/drobbins_bio.asp
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<Kyral> I may install Damn Small on my laptop now
<LaserJock> stupid prorietary software :/
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> I'm struggling with trying to decide to write my own pogram or just buy the stupid $1000 proprietary software
<\sh> for what?
<LaserJock> software monopolies stink too :(
<LaserJock> data collection
<LaserJock> all I want to do is finish my PhD
<\sh> data collection is a big field :)
<\sh> what exactly?
<\sh> so...i386 ubuntu mirror is on my server finally
<\sh> now for the samba mount :)
<LaserJock> I'm just getting data of an oscillascope via GPIB
<\sh> hmmmm..no serial connection? :)
<LaserJock> heh, no
<LaserJock> so I'm looking at either making a python GUI that uses linux-gpib driver (which may or may not work) or buying LabView
<\sh> strance osci :)
<\sh> use python :)
<LaserJock> I'd like too, but I have to justify the time it would take me to do it to my boss
<LaserJock> It'd take me > $1000 worth of time to write the program
<LaserJock> but I sooo want to do it in Python and avoid National Instruments
<[Chameleon] > if it's something usable that could be sold, your company may be far more interested
<\sh> if your boss will spend the 1k USD buy the programm
<theCore> LaserJock: why Python?
<LaserJock> because Python rules the world!
<[Chameleon] > :)
<LaserJock> and the only other language I know is FORTRAN
<theCore> LaserJock: from a restricted point of view, yes
<theCore> LaserJock: eh
<theCore> LaserJock: I see now why Python rule from your point of view ;)
<LaserJock> we have a program right now (written in C) that sort of works, but it is really buggy
<LaserJock> if I could recycle some of that it might go faster
<LaserJock> ncurses+pgplot just isn't working for me right now, especially when it freezes half way through a 2 hr data run
<LaserJock> but I would think there would already be linux apps out there already for this sort of thing
<LaserJock> I might just be looking for the wrong thing
<zul> heylo
<bddebian> Hello again zul
<zul> you are always here bddebian
<bddebian> Yep, I live here :-)
<zul> hehe...
<zul> did you make your bed this morning then
* Hobbsee waves to everyone, in a half asleep state
<\sh> hey hobbsee
<Hobbsee> oh hi \sh - long time no see
<bddebian> Hello Hobbsee
<\sh> yeah
<zul> hey \sh
<tseng> hi \sh
<\sh> hey zul, tseng :)
<\sh> happy easter
<tseng> and you
<zul> you too
<\sh> thought I'm one of the the eastereggs you need to find :)
<bddebian> heh
<zul> finally they scored..
<LaserJock> our cat decided to bring an Easter bunny home today :(
<theCore> I get a weird error when I try to build my pbuilder cache, what's the problem?: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12366
<bddebian> theCore: re-install debboostrap?
<\sh__> grmpf
<\sh__> shitty disconnect :)
<theCore> bddebian: I did, I even taken the package from package.ubuntu.com
<bmonty> theCore: have you tried with a different archive?
<theCore> bmonty: no
<bmonty> theCore: are you using archive.ubuntu.com or a mirror?
<theCore> bmonty: I'm using archive.ubuntu.com
<tseng> hm does anyone know about FC5 and -fstack-protector
<theCore> bmonty: now I'm trying with ca.archive.ubuntu.com
<\sh> thecore: what's wrong?
<\sh> tseng: which gcc are they using?
<theCore> \sh: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12366
<bmonty> theCore: I've never had problems with a.u.c, but I have with mirrors
<theCore> bmonty: maybe the problem is with my command
<bmonty> theCore: have you followed the pbuilder instructions in the wiki?
<theCore> sudo pbuilder create --distribution dapper --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper universe multiverse"
<theCore> no
<theCore> bmonty: I followed the one in the Packaging Guide
<bmonty> theCore: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<bmonty> ahh, the packaging guide is also a good place to look
<theCore> LaserJock: take notes
<\sh> thecore: i'm using the rc files for pbuilder stuff...and I'm not providing any big commandline stuff to it...
<bmonty> theCore: follow the instructions on the wiki page
<theCore> bmonty: ok
<bmonty> theCore: if that doesn't work, put the entire output of the pbuilder run in the pastebin
<theCore> bmonty: eh
<theCore> bmonty: won't help much
<theCore> bmonty: ok, I still get an error with ca.a.u.c
<bmonty> theCore: same error?
<bmonty> and did you follow all the steps on the wiki page?
<theCore> bmonty: it haven't finished yet
<LaserJock> arggh, reading backlog. I was putting some new flooring in
<bmonty> LaserJock: laminate floor?
<LaserJock> vinyl tile
<bmonty> a little easier :)
<LaserJock> have to get it done before the inlaws come down
<bmonty> nothing like being properly motivated to finish a project
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> my wife made me sign a piece of paper that I would get it done ;-)
<bmonty> :)
<bmonty> my last flooring project had the entire living room and dining room stored in my garage....I was *very* motivated to get it put back together
<LaserJock> mhm, I recarpeted the entire house when we first moved in. that was a big project
<LaserJock> theCore: any luck.
<bmonty> LaserJock: I don't do carpet
<LaserJock> I don't want to have to redo the Packaging Guide, again
<LaserJock> bmonty: my only comment is, they pay people for a reason ;-)
<theCore> didn't work again
<bmonty> LaserJock: I think the pbuilder instructions in the packaging guide is a little minimal on pbuilder setup
<LaserJock> bmonty: think so?
<bmonty> you could probably just reference the pbuilderhowto page
<LaserJock> womble was showing me how you don't have to ever mess with pbuilderrc
<LaserJock> and it is much simpiler
<LaserJock> than the pbuilderhowto wiki page
<bmonty> does it work with unauthenticated packages?
<LaserJock> fine, I think
<theCore> bddebian: so, do you a longer output from pbuilder?
<bddebian> theCore: ?
<theCore> do you want*
<bddebian> theCore: Sorry I've been afk.  Still no luck?
<bmonty> theCore: what version of pbuilder are you using?
<\sh> LaserJock: actually the best way to work with pbuilder is checking the examples...in /usr/share/pbuilder/examples there is this script pbuider-<distro> script..and this I'm using in a different (tweaked) way...totally easy...you have to setup only one time those rc files and be happy :)
<bmonty> brb
<theCore> bmonty: 0.145ubuntu4
<bmonty> theCore: ok
<theCore> should I use cdebootstrap?
<bmonty> theCore: it shouldn't matter
<LaserJock> \sh: exactly, that is what I did, although in a simpler (no script) way
<LaserJock> basically you never have to mess with /etc/pbuilderrc files
<\sh> LaserJock: i don't mess with /etc files anyways :)
<\sh> i have all my pbuilder stuff in my home :)
<\sh> everything but the cache
<bddebian> This xmkfmf stuff is making me sick
<ajmitch> hi \sh, Hobbsee et al :)
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
* Hobbsee happily munches on easter egg :D
<LaserJock> I'll probably redo the pbuilderhowto when I get all the details worked out
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> \sh: good to see you still around
<LaserJock> the /etc/pbuilder/apt.config part seems to mess people up
<\sh> laserjock: trying to write something about it on my blog....give me some minutes :)
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<LaserJock> \sh: cool, thanks
<LaserJock> darn it, our cat just brought back the same bunny. :(
<LaserJock> not smart
<ajmitch> haha
<LaserJock> twice in one day. must be she just wants to bring us an easter bunny :/
<bmonty> LaserJock: thankfully, my wife's cat doesn't kill bunnies since the bunnies around here would probably kill the cat
<LaserJock> bmonty: yeah, this one is tiny, but our cat just seem to want to bring it to us, not kill it
<LaserJock> bmonty: so my wife just lets it out in the front yard
<bmonty> LaserJock: I don't know if I'd let him go...I'd probably find him eating stuff out of my garden later :)
<LaserJock> heh, it's Nevada, not a lot of gardens around here. We are lucky if we get grass
<bmonty> I heard there are towns that are encouraging people to not grow grass to save on water
<bmonty> I guess you save on property taxes or something
<bddebian> I swear our /etc/X11/config/cf stuff is fucked up
<crimsun> bddebian: um, we were waiting for Darren to incorporate the changes for #39507 before uploading...
<bddebian> crimsun: ?
<crimsun> "Uploaded with attached fix.  Thank you for the report and the Fix."
<crimsun> RE: HIG compliant menu entry
<crimsun> (gxine)
<bddebian> crimsun: Oh, sorry, mdke asked me to do that
<bddebian> There wasn't a note on the bug about it was there?
* crimsun finds a bat for both
* bddebian crawls back to Hurd
<LaserJock> bmonty: I wouldn't doubt it. There are a lot of xeroscapes (no grass, just rock) here.
<\sh> oh man...writing a documentation is no fun...I have scripts for all that :)
<bmonty> good night everyone
<LaserJock> \sh: heh, documentation is a lot harder than I would have thought
<LaserJock> cya bmonty
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu Packaging Guide took what seemed like forever, and quite a bit of the material was from the wiki
<\sh> well, as I said, all this stuff is automated on my buildhost...I can even generate a dchroot in a couple of seconds, no matter what distro or arch on my amd64
<LaserJock> \sh: yeah, I think for Dapper+1 I'll try to move more in that direction
<StevenK> \sh! Long time no see!
<ajmitch> afternoon StevenK
* StevenK waves
* Hobbsee waves to StevenK 
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> argh!  now i *knew* that was going to happen!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you shouldn't encourage him
<StevenK> I don't need encouraging!
<Hobbsee> hmmm...true
<\sh> hey stevenk :)
* Hobbsee attaches big spikes to herself, so that StevenK will not enjoy trying to jump on her again :P
<StevenK> ... or maybe I will.
<Hobbsee> not with echidna like spikes...
<Hobbsee> you'd get fairly cut up
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: how's it going? (other than getting jumped by StevenK)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: how's school?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: going ok, on holidays from uni at the moment. i've been at work (urgh)
<crimsun> yeesh, we're not supposed to condone violence in here ;p
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee is not violent...well, not very violent, anyway
* StevenK is having fun with his uni, too.
<StevenK> Async I/O on Windows blows.
<Hobbsee_away> lunch.  right after breakfast
<StevenK> Isn't that the best time for it?
<\sh> ok think i have it finished now :)
<\sh> just saving and publishing it :)
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/188-How-to-manage-pbuilder-the-sh-way.html
<\sh> LaserJock: here you are
<LaserJock> \sh: thanks
<\sh> well..for me I created some perl scripts which are generating all the other shell scripts and all the files and doing some s/// stuff with it :)
* ajmitch has a similar set of scripts
<ajmitch> except I have shorter names since I'm lazier ;)
<ajmitch> like adbuild for pbuilder build, for dapper amd64 ;)
<\sh> well...I have shortcuts for dapper (amd64) dapper-i386 (i386) breezy (amd64) breezy-i386 (i386) etc. :)
<\sh> anyways this approachs helps the people to understand when they have to deal with more then one release :)
* ajmitch only recently got this amd64, so no breezy amd64 setup for it
<\sh> I'm just working on building ubuntu cds the kamion way :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> document it, I'll need to do that very soon :)
<\sh> grabbed his tla archives for his cdimage scripts and the debian-cd variant of him...
<ajmitch> urls?
<LaserJock> \sh: is step 4 necessary?
<ajmitch> p.u.c/~cjwatson, I guess..
* ajmitch tries
<\sh> wiki.ubuntu.com/CdBuildProcess
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/
<ajmitch> thanks
<\sh> and then cdimage and debian-cd categories of his tla archive
<\sh> it's all weired...many many things totally hardcoded for the daily cdbuilds :)
<\sh> and then, when was it, during the last 2 days ... I found an uvf exception report for updating kio_apt because it has to be adjusted to work with packages.ubuntu.com
<\sh> lol...I just checked the source, and I threw up. the who konqui html page is generated statically inside the C++ code..just like Perls CGI stuff
<ajmitch> how evil
<\sh> ugly ugly
<ajmitch> that's just broken
<\sh> mu thoughts...I was just starting to code a template modell for different debian based distros with similar pages :)
<\sh> s/mu/my/
* ajmitch shudders
<\sh> so you only have to check which distro it is, which release and read the html template....
<LaserJock> ok, it looks like you could take pbuilder-distribution.sh and change DISTRIBUTION
<\sh> well...if you have more then one distribution (dapper, breezy, etc.) then the auto determination is quite nice :)
<\sh> there are different ways...my scripts are at least a bit different...
<\sh> but we want the user to use there muscle between their shoulders, right?
<LaserJock> well, I'm just trying to see if steps 4,5 and 6 are neccessary
<\sh> if you automate things, yes they are :)
<LaserJock> shouldn't pbuilder-distribution.sh take care of everything?
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure this out once for all
<LaserJock> womble seemed to indicate that pbuilder-distribution.sh would be sufficent
<\sh> well...no
<\sh> you have to substitute distribution in pbuilder-distribution.sh with dapper/breezy etc. and remove the .sh
<\sh> after all, I'm doing more...you can directly login into the pbuilder chroot
<\sh> compare my script and the example script :)
<\sh> I worked on one script which determines as well the arch of the distro for what I want to build a package...
<LaserJock> yes, but it doesn't seem like steps 4 & 5 are neccesary
<LaserJock> what are they doing?
<\sh> they are putting the files inside the ~/pbuilder/ dir
<\sh> and not in the /var/cache/pbuilder dir
<\sh> as well you have to adjust some things for the apt.conf.d stuff autoupdate should not be enabled etc.
<\sh> you have to take care.
<\sh> accordingly to the pbuilderhowto wiki page :)
<\sh> and for my pbuilder-dapper script I added "pbuilder-dapper login
<\sh> "
<LaserJock> yes, but from what I've seen none of that is neccesary
<LaserJock> the pbuilder login thing is cool
<\sh> of course
<\sh> you don't want to have dapper-base.tar.gz in /var/cache/pbuilder
<\sh> you want to have it in your home
<LaserJock> that is done in the script
* ajmitch has the usual ~/pbuilder/base_tarballs, ~/pbuilder/configs :)
<\sh> right..and pbuilderrc you have more options to check in....
<\sh> I have 4 of those files, dapper, breezy, hoary, warty :)
<\sh> I can use them for amd64/i386 pbuilder
<\sh> etc. and if I need more mirrors or other archives, I just add them to those files
<\sh> and some of the mentioned debootstrap options , passed to pbuilder, are not working correctly :)
<LaserJock> but why not just use --OTHERMIRROR in the script
<\sh> when pbuilder is started with e.g. --debootstrapopts "arch=i386"
<\sh> because you don't want to adjust in a script file data which is changeable :)
<\sh> in the rc file you can add lots and lots of those entries without messing the script...
<\sh> readability :)
<LaserJock> hmm, I've just seen people have problems with those steps and I don't need them to make and use pbuilders
<\sh> honestly, if the people have problems with those step, they shouldn't use pbuilder at all
<\sh> in other words: the rc file is well documented, better then the script...so if they are checking the script, they don't even know what "othermirror" is
<\sh> in the rc file it's mentioned
<LaserJock> yeah, not so much the rc part but the apt config
<\sh> well not in mine
<\sh> the apt.config part is much different...for this you have to know what apt is doing during normal operation mode, and when it's used in pbuilder or debootstrap
<\sh> which means, deeper knowledge
<LaserJock> I'll have to test this more
<ajmitch> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch
<ajmitch> welcome back Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> thanks :)
<bddebian> Heya Yagisan
* Hobbsee is freezing!
<Yagisan> ajmitch: need to redo my strategy for testing packages with SSP.
<Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee, bddebian
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> ajmitch: so many cruddy makefiles redefining CC and CFLAGS :(
<ajmitch> sounds fairly usual
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yep. I've decided to patch gcc-defaults, build-essential, and make a new esel-builder (like pentium-builder) package, then try to rebuild a couple of core libraries and see how things go
<Yagisan> but first, I'll relax a bit but updating the packaging for deng
<Yagisan> s/but/by
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I see I'm just about up with you for f@h :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: that's not hard. I have just 2 boxes (200MHz, 850Mhz) running it
<\sh> hmmm..does anybody have a collection of music from the band "iced earth"...looks like this band is really missing in my collection
<Yagisan> s/200Mhz/2000Mhz
<ajmitch> yeah, whereas I have 2x2.2GHz amd64 cores, and a 2GHz p-m
<Yagisan> ajmitch: feel free to donate one to me ;)
<ajmitch> heh :)
<ajmitch> a little hard to carve up the amd64
<Yagisan> sorry \sh, I've never heard of them.
<Yagisan> ajmitch you still have access to a powerpc box ?
<\sh> metal rulez da world :)
<Yagisan> \sh: ah, as I'm not into that, it isn't a surprise then.
<\sh> just found something :)
<\sh> 5 cd box...hmmm....btlaunchmanycurses ^^
<\sh> oh fck..it's 6:18
<\sh> utc+2
<\sh> I have to do something....I felt so displaced in the last couple of weeks
<Yagisan> \sh: what's up ?
<\sh> oh don't ask...I'm just totally fcked up with my life...
<\sh> totally personal desaster
<\sh> but one thing all this shit is good for...I lost 15kg :)
<Yagisan> \sh: don't worry, you'll get through it.
<\sh> well....to be honest...I was close to shut everything down...including myself...but there are so many good people in this world, I got so many emails and everybody wanted to help me...really I was surprised...
<Yagisan> is "Architecture: any (!i386) valid in a control file ?
<\sh> and one gut especially...I'll have an interview on tuesday
<bddebian> Isn't it [!i386]  ?
<bddebian> \sh: Great
<Yagisan> \sh: I'm not really sure what is wrong with you, I just saw the emails you sent, and wanted to know if you are ok ?
<Yagisan> bddebian: ah, thanks. so it was a typo
<bddebian> Yagisan: I'm used to typing [!hurd-i386]  ;-P
<\sh> short version: I quite my job, cause I was burned out...then I took another freelance job for one week, earned some money, paid my bills for january and february, after then no new jobs...so I didn't have any money, couldn't buy anything to eat or drink, and felt down in my life...I didn't pay my rent for 2 months now, need to pay the car and phones etc. but without no money it's not possible..I went to all offices here in germany to get hel
<\sh> old company, so i'm stucked.
<\sh> and the last 1 1/2 weeks I wasn't eating at all, I felt like dieing.
<\sh> so I took precautions...
<\sh> the result, i gave up main/universe upload rights, tried to find other people who can take care about some services running on my server, etc. but suddenly there was one guy who helped me out a bit...and pulled me out of my situation, for now...and hopefully forever
<\sh> I'm looking forward to tuesday...if this works out, great, if not....THEN I have really problems :)
<Yagisan> \sh: I understand, I've been in a similar situation, it all looks like shit at the moment, but it will get better, even if you end up doing stuff you'd rather not for a short while
* bddebian does stuff he'd rather not all his life :-(
<\sh> well..it's shit when you would get money from the state, which I paid for quite some time (15 years now) and they can't give you anything because of one piece of paper
<\sh> this is really pissing you off...and you can't call those people, because the phone is dead.
<\sh> my ex is coming with a lawyer wants to have money which I don't have...etc. it's really depressing...
<\sh> I worked for a while at a gas station as nightshift :( 15 eur per 12h
<\sh> without a tax card...that's why....
<ajmitch> ouch
<Yagisan> \sh: 15 euro for 12 hours work ??
<\sh> yes
<\sh> slave work
<\sh> actually I could buy food at this time
<Yagisan> \sh:  thats fucking unbelievable
<\sh> believe me, when you need something to eat, you do anything...
<\sh> oh is kenny duffus on irc?
<ajmitch> never heard of him
* bddebian either
<\sh> the guy behind "Behind Ubuntu
<\sh> he spend 10 euros this morning :)
<ajmitch> IRC: seaLne  on network irc.freenode.net
<ajmitch> looks to be in #u-bugs
<\sh> when I send the mail yesterday morning to u-m not quite 1 hour later paypal triggert "you have something incoming" :)
<Yagisan> \sh: oh, I know that. There was a time when I didn't have a home to live in, so I do feel your pain.
<ajmitch> \sh: but it's all in german :)
<\sh> ajmitch: what? did I wrote in german?
<\sh> lol
<ajmitch> no, the paypal page
<\sh> hmm....
<\sh> I knew there is something wrong
<\sh> there is written "spenden" and not "donate" :(
<\sh> fck
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> and the source has de_DE
* ajmitch only speaks en_NZ :)
<\sh> wait....let me see if this can be changed
* ajmitch only has a CC, no paypal account :)
<\sh> create one..it's an advantage :)
<\sh> you can pay with CC to an paypal account anyways :)
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> but it's harder when the page isn't in english :)
<\sh> now :)
<\sh> it's in english :)
<ajmitch> ok :)
<ajmitch> much easier for us dim-witted english speakers :)
<\sh> since yesterday night I wasn't even paypal customer :)
<\sh> I don't know who brought this idea to me
<\sh> one of the motus I think :)
<LaserJock> we talked about it here
<LaserJock> we were trying to find out the best way to get you help
<Yagisan> \sh: I don't think a personal account can receive CC payments
<\sh> i don't have a personal
<\sh> kenny just used a CC card...and I had to update
<bddebian> Well send us the # :-)
<\sh> I pay around 63 cent for a 10 eur donation :)
<\sh> when it's coming via CC card...anyways
<\sh> crimsun: you are crazy...thx
<\sh> actually I would like to publish the names on my website...to say thank you...but I don't know if this is ok
<Yagisan> any issues registering with paypal ? I don't actually have a CC.
<crimsun> ask the senders if they wish to remain anonymous, and if you don't receive a reply, assume they wish to remain anonymous.
<\sh> no...in germany it's easy you can pay also via direct debit
<\sh> crimsun: any objections?
<ajmitch> \sh: hopefully you'll have enough to eat for awhile now :)
<bddebian> Goddamnit, I can't remember my paypal password.. grrr
<\sh> oh I will send everything back if I don't need it :) or should I donate it to the ubuntu foundation?
<crimsun> \sh: I would have preferred anonymity, but it's pretty moot now.
<LaserJock> crimsun: I didn't hear anything ;-)
<Se7h> hi all
<\sh> crimsun: I'm not doing anything :) I just said you are crazy :) for whatever reason :)
* Yagisan is still reading all the terms and conditions on paypal
<\sh> well...for private accounts and upgraded accounts everything is free, you have to pay some fees for the upgraded accounts when you receive money
<bddebian> ACK.. WTF
<bddebian> Shit it's 1AM, gnight folks
* Yagisan needs to duck out for a bit. I finally found a chemist that is open, but a bit of a trip away.
<\sh> good luck :)
<Yagisan> thanks \sh. My daughter picked a bad time to get sick. Easter long weekend sucks if you actually want to buy something (like food, or medicine)
<\sh> yeah same here....
<\sh> well...actually I can't go even to a chemist or doctor...no health care in the moment :))
<Yagisan> \sh: all least the doctor is covered (he charges the government). the chemist however, will be full price.
<Yagisan> s/all/at
* Yagisan walking out the door now. bbl
<\sh> cu later :)
<LaserJock> heh, I got excited at the mention of "chemist" then I realized it wasn't my kind of chemist
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sorry, we use slightly different language in this part of the world :)
<LaserJock> apparently, I didn't know that
<Hobbsee> hmmm...i'd be surprised if there were any chemists open today...
<Hobbsee> even the supermarkets arent open today!
<ajmitch> there will be some open
<ajmitch> since people will need essential stuff
<Hobbsee> true...a few...
<Hobbsee> maccas was open on friday, and shops down in manly - that was it
<Hobbsee> nothing interseting up this end of the world
<ajmitch> the main supermarket in town (usually open 24/7) was closed today
<ajmitch> I suspect the urgent pharmacy would have had someone on duty though
<\sh> it's easter :)
<\sh> you don't need a supermarket...just a rabbit :)
<Hobbsee> that is true
<Hobbsee> \sh: hehe.  and a knife, to remove all the fur :P
<\sh> yeah...mjam...tasty...rabbit roast :)
<Hobbsee> hehe!
* Hobbsee pictures work selling rabbits
<Hobbsee> ROFL!!!!
* Hobbsee pictures a rabbit being thrown at the night supervisor, instead of the food
<pwebrick> hey hows it going everyone
<pwebrick> i got a question now one else has been able to answer
<pwebrick> whenever i perform sudo i get a setuid must be root error
<pwebrick> any suggestions
<ajmitch> sounds like you've changed your sudo binary permissions somehow..
<pwebrick> is there anyway to change the permissions back
<pwebrick> like a file of some sort
<ajmitch> yes, but you need to have root privileges to do it :)
<\sh> boot into rescue mode
<pwebrick> ok i can do that
<pwebrick> i can just get into root
<pwebrick> what configuration files should i be looking at
<\sh>  /usr/bin/sudo first :)
<pwebrick> ok is it changing hte file permissions on the file or am i using vi to change something in the file
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know of a place where I could get something like free wiki hosting?
<Lathiat> LaserJock: for an OS projet?
<ajmitch> pwebrick: changing permissions on the file
<pwebrick> laserjock try wikihost.org
<pwebrick> ok
<pwebrick> changing the permissions
<pwebrick> ok
<LaserJock> Lathiat: actually, I was just trying to find a place I can put info where I can access it anywhere
<Lathiat> LaserJock: ah ok
<pwebrick> ok thanks guys i have been trying to solve this problem for days now...
<LaserJock> or maybe you guys know of a place where I can put stuff, files, info, etc.
<pwebrick> digitaldropbox might be what you are looking for
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<Hobbsee> ack!!!
<ajmitch> well done Hobbsee :)
<LaserJock> nice
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i got more channels, when i wasnt looking!
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<\sh> I don't think ubuntu-motu channel is secured anyways :)
<Hobbsee> true
* Hobbsee mutters about silly trolls
<Toadstool> heya motus !
<zakame> hi ! Happy Easter!
<\sh> happy easter to you to zakame
<highvoltage> happy easter zakame and \sh
<tritium> Happy Easter :)
<highvoltage> :)
<zakame> \sh!!! highvoltage!!! tritium!!! =)
<tritium> Hi \sh, highvoltage, zakame
<\sh> hey zakame hows the debian life going? :)
<ajmitch> hi
<tritium> hi ajmitch
<zakame> \sh: I'm taking a breather before diving into  packaging a new CVS package
<\sh> wow...what about njam? is it finally in debians archives? :)
<zakame> yup, apparently
<ajmitch> \sh: why are you still awake? :)
<\sh> because of this doomed kamion build cd script :)
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch is still trying to do the rsync
<ajmitch> going very slowly
<\sh> yeah...
<\sh> and be careful
* zakame has to catch up
<\sh> you need the debian-cd archive in the cdimage.no-name-yet.com directory :)
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> fun
<\sh> I'm doing this now...
<\sh> debmirror
<\sh> only i386
<\sh> then getting the other files out of dists and indicies via ncftp
<\sh> let's see if this helps
* ajmitch is considering using debmirror, just for sparc off ports.u.c
<ajmitch> anything would be faster than the crawling it's doing now
<tritium> ajmitch: what are you doing?
<ajmitch> tritium: grabbing packages via rsync
<zakame> wow LP uses some ajax(?) magic now...
<\sh> the header?
<tritium> ajmitch: yes, but why?
<\sh> the navigation bar? i think it's just plain css
<zakame> oh
<ajmitch> tritium: for work stuff
<tritium> ah, ok
<ajmitch> zakame: why do you think it's ajaxified?
<zakame> ajmitch: heh, I was too numbed with gmails' :/
<zakame> hmm, is there something worgn with the source-pkg for digikam?  I couldn't get to dpkg-souce -x it
<phanatic> hi people
<sivang> slomo_: pingie
<alx> hi all
<alx> I came here after a while around searching a safe way to use gcc 3.4 on ubuntu
<\sh> why 3.4 and not 4.x?
<slomo_> sivang: pong
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<slomo_> siretart: ping
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<sivang> slomo_: what's up? did you had time to consider my package more?
<sivang> (I only got one bit from you, about changing the version number to native one)
<slomo_> sivang: nope not yet... i'll take a look in 10 minutes, don't worry :) but first i need to get a coffee ;)
<sivang> slomo_: ofcourse :)
<siretart> hey \sh, good to see you around again! :)
<siretart> slomo_: pong
<\sh> hey siretart :) how's life? :)
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<siretart> \sh: thanks, I just returned from vienna, had a great week, will do some ubuntu/debian stuff today and tomorrow, and then start with my thesis :)
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<\sh> siretart: sounds great, I wish you all the luck you need for your thesis :)
<siretart> \sh: thank you! :)
<slomo_> siretart: we have a problem now ;) marillat uses /usr/lib/codecs instead of /usr/lib/win32 now
<siretart> slomo_: hm. what do you suggest? I assume we can move easily as well, no?
<slomo_> siretart: and users would have to move their stuff... what does xine in debian currently use? still /usr/lib/win32?
<siretart> I think so.
<siretart> why did marillat move?
<slomo_> ok then let's ignore marillat's weird decisions for now
<slomo_> no idea... probably because it doesn't contain only win32 codecs but mac codecs on ppc for example
<siretart> perhaps we could ask him why he did that
<siretart> hm
<siretart> I see
<slomo_> but as /usr/lib/win32 is used since ages everywhere it is a great change...
<siretart> I think moving wouldn't be such a great issue, I assume. or is it that painful to adjust xine?
<slomo_> it's not painful to adjust anything... it's just a path :)
<slomo_> but users have their codecs in /usr/lib/win32
<slomo_> and one million packages expect it there atm
<siretart> hm. then let's ignore marillat for dapper, and reconsider for edgy
<slomo_> ok
<slomo_> i had a bug in debian on one of my packages because of that yesterday... that's why i know it ;)
* sivang wonders again when edgy was named :)
<Hobbsee> edgy?
<phanatic> Hobbsee: dapper+1 i suppose :)
<siretart> it isn't official at all, I think
<Hobbsee> phanatic: i realise that, i didnt know it was announced though...
<siretart> it was at the day the new release date for dapper was discussed
<Hobbsee> oh ok
<Hobbsee> wonder why i didnt see it then
<tseng> it would be nice if launchpad would ignore quoted text when i reply to bugmail
<siretart> some people refered to dapper+1 as 'edgy elephant'. no idea if dapper+1 will really be called like that
<tseng> siretart: it will
<siretart> tseng: ah, nice to hear. but I think a mail to u-d-a is still pending, isn't it?
<tseng> beats me
<Hobbsee> oh ok
<tseng> it doesnt seem like a big deal
<tseng> its our 5th naming :)
<slomo_> sivang: ok now to your package :) we already discussed the version number... please change it ;)
<siretart> gnarf. qt 4.1.2 is annoying me: after about 2h building, it ftbfs with an gcc ICE :(
<slomo_> that's the joy of c++ :)
<siretart> perhaps it needs more diskspace to build
<siretart> I tried that on lvm snapshots with size of 1g. perhaps it needs more
<slomo_> sivang: wrong distribution... use dapper instead of unstable in debian/changelog
<slomo_> sivang: no need to add you to uploaders and maintainer... uploaders is for co-maintainers, just delete the uploaders line in debian/control
<sivang> slomo_: noted, noted and noted. :)
<slomo_> sivang: debhelper must be in build-depends, not build-depends-indep
<slomo_> sivang: build-depends must include everything needed for the clean and binary-arch rule
<slomo_> sivang: debian/copyright is too vague... you have to include the 3-paragraph boilerplate for the gpl... look at $random-gpl-package for example :)
<Yagisan> re
<sivang> slomo_: what is the real meaning of build-depends-indep ?
<slomo_> sivang: needed stuff to call the binary-indep rule
* Yagisan is catching his daughters cold :(
<slomo_> sivang: and you should convert you debian/rules to use the binary-indep rule, not binary-arch as your stuff is arch indep
<sivang> slomo_: well, I actually hoped for less problems :) This is almost an exact copy of gdebi debian packaging by mvo :)
<sivang> slomo_: minus the things I changed to suite HUB
<slomo_> sivang: and better make your debian/rules cleaner :) the commented out dh_* calls are not needed etc ;)
<sivang> slomo_: if you have any more, please say now, I Want to do that in one sweep.
<slomo_> mvo's gdebi package has the same problems btw ;)
<slomo_> hm, fix those points and then i take another look :)
<Tonio_> siretart: ping ? May I ask you for a ufve review ?
<sivang> slomo_: many thanks! I'm greatful, will attend to those now.
<sivang> slomo_: btw, how do you say "this may wreck havoc on your system, and blow up your mind" notice to people won't try to hunt you down if it destroys there system?
<sivang> slomo_: or, where do you put the notice?
<sivang> (I know this is part of the gpl implicitly, but..)
<siretart> Tonio_: just file the bug, you'll need us all 3 to respond to your request. what's the bugno?
<Tonio_> siretart: bug already sent ;)
<\sh> re
<siretart> wb \sh
<Tonio_> siretart: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/39516
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39516 in yakuake "UVF exception request : 2.7.3 -> 2.7.5" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<Tonio_> Ubugtu: hehe
<slomo_> sivang: put it in the package's long description :)
<sivang> slomo_: wouldn't that make it a bit of a turn of for people wanting to test it ? :)
<sivang> slomo_: I just need a cover up, but I do want to wide testing :)
<slomo_> sivang: then don't add the notice at all :P
<slomo_> sivang: or put it into your program for the first start
<slomo_> sivang: only saying that this is beta software and was not tested extensively and could kill your kittens ;)
<sivang> slomo_: hehe
<bddebian> Heya gang
<siretart> heyho bddebian
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<slomo_> sivang: tell me when you have a new version... and really make it 0.0.1 :)
<sivang> slomo_: sure, working on all your comments now.
<bddebian> Oh yeah it FTBFS's for me :)
<slomo_> sivang: and you could forward them to mvo too ;) i guess he didn't had enough time to make a clean package and only wanted something working for now
<sivang> slomo_: I guess so :) But I'm thankful for him even making such a nice and easy to derive upon skelaton of a python package :)
<jpatrick> can someone look at Malone #39688 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39688 in kbfx "UVF: kbfx 0.4.9" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39688
<sivang> slomo_: I would have been lost if I tried to derive on another package, although I had to add some bits of my on, like MANIFEST.in file etc
<Toadstool> hi all, happy Easter :)
<jpatrick> hi Toadstool, and happy Easter to you too
<Toadstool> is there any IPv6 guru here? I've a packaging question :)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Ok guess this is the right place!
<tuxmaniac> I am packaging XCircuit 3.4 and would like to know certain details
<Toadstool> tuxmaniac: go ahead, I'm sure someone will help you ;)
<tuxmaniac> while packaging can I use the control file of the previous versions?
<tuxmaniac> this is not a XCircuit specific question. But packaging in general
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: this is upgrading the xcircuit package?
<tuxmaniac> Ubuntu has XCircuit 3.1 on its repos and even debian has the same.. but XCircuit 3.4 is the latest..
<tuxmaniac> Yes
<Toadstool> yeah well, when I package a new upstream version I use the same debian dir and update some files such as debian/changelog
* Hobbsee has a block of instructions for how to do this
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee: yes
<bddebian> Ahh, tuxmaniac == Aanijhan? :-)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Yipeeee
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12378
<Hobbsee> that's how to upgrade packages...
<Hobbsee> of course, kmymoney2 is not xcircuit, but the same thing applies
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee: Thanks.. Am reading thru it. Think I will put it up as some article and give credits to you?
<jpatrick> Hobbsee, tuxmaniac: or use uupdate
<Hobbsee> i'd say that there's a more eloquent version of what to do around there somewhere.
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: yes, that evil thing.  it borked when i tried it...
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee: Then the Ubuntu packaging Guide does not have these details?
<jpatrick> should do
<jpatrick> I wrote that bit
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure if it does or not - but it should
<Hobbsee> oh goody!
<jpatrick> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-updating.html
<jpatrick> I'll write more for Dapper+1
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: that's kinda confusing, but yeah.  for if you dont need to patch
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: I didn't write that bit
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: It does _not_ have
<Hobbsee> ah ok
<Hobbsee> i thought you said you did
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: I have a few suggesitions
<jpatrick> LaserJock did bits too
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: First the guide is great!
<Hobbsee> cool
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Updating part is very complex for ppl like me to Understand
<jpatrick> echo "Update and make easier to understand the bit on updating packages" >> TODO.dapper+1
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Oh ok. Danke
<jpatrick> no problem :)
<tuxmaniac> Hello ppl. When I do a objdump -p /usr/bin/foo1.1 and a objdump -p /usr/bin/foo1.2 piped by a grep NEEDED there are a couple of lib files missing from the list in the new version
<tuxmaniac> Does that mean that there is no dependency on that package?
* Yagisan is feeling rather sick now. Night all.
<joelbryan> how do I create a .deb package?, should I join the MOTU team first?
<tuxmaniac> joelbryan: Hi
<tuxmaniac> joelbryan: FHow good are you at packaging?
<joelbryan> tuxmaniac: err, I know how to use Makefile.am
<tuxmaniac> Read the Debian New Maintainer Guide, Ubuntu Packaging Guide first
<tuxmaniac> joelbryan: Which I am also doing! :)
<tuxmaniac> joelbryan: doc.ubuntu.com
<joelbryan> yes, I will continue to read it. I like to package the software I made
<joelbryan> UbuntuLiveChatSupport, UbuntuHomeBackup, SensibleIRCHandler
<sivang> slomo_: so version number should change to 0.0.1ubuntu1 ?
<sivang> slomo_: ah no, just 0.0.1 for native acutally?
<slomo_> 0.0.1
<sivang> slomo_: k
<slomo_> sivang: you could use the python class of cdbs btw ;)
<tuxmaniac> joelbryan: Great!
<sivang> slomo_: will it make all my setup.py and rules files a one liner and make me dump all what's there? :)
<slomo_> yes
<sivang> slomo_: or can I just add it to the existing stuff, as you saw ?
<slomo_> sivang: your debian/rules would get down to a few lines... setup.py would be called automatically, etc
<slomo_> sivang: only need to b-d (not b-d-i) on cdbs then
<ivoks> happy E.
<sivang> slomo_: well, for now I'll just fix what is there :-)
<sivang> slomo_: cdbs makes me scream ;-)
<slomo_> sivang: why?
<slomo_> sivang: because it does everything for you? ;)
<ivoks> slomo_: thing with libetpan is simple; if new version is uploaded, i'll request UVF for etpan-ng too
<ivoks> and i promise, I'll ask no UVFs any more :)
<sivang> slomo_: something like that, yes :)
<slomo_> ivoks: file one now already so we get everything up at once with no breakage ;)
<slomo_> ivoks: and file as many UVF exceptions as you need :P
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ok, but not today :)
<ivoks> tomorrow :)
<slomo_> ok
<slomo_> and then add this as a comment to the libetan bug so siretart and dholbach know it too ;)
<slomo_> anyway... bbl :)
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> bye
<sivang> oh dear, slomo_ left..
<sivang> slomo_: ping me when you are back
<BlakeRG> Hello world
<jpatrick> BlakeRG: hi
<bmonty> morning MOTUs
<jpatrick> hi to you too bmonty :)
<BlakeRG> anyone know why I get a segmentation fault with apt-build, but the same app will recompile with apt-get -b source packagename
<BlakeRG> wait I think I see something :)
<BlakeRG> nope =(
<caleb-> Hello, I put a package named gcin into REVU, but the .dsc file uploaded failed.
<caleb-> The .dsc file of gcin showed zero file size.
<bmonty> caleb-: the .dsc file looks fine to me
<caleb-> bmonty: I want to dput a new .dsc bu failed. :-(
<bmonty> caleb-: what is the error message?
<caleb-> bmonty: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of gcin_1.1.8-0ubuntu1.dsc
<caleb-> bmonty: I use dput -f *_source.changes
<bmonty> caleb-: hmm, looks like you need help from a REVU admin
<caleb-> bmonty: OK, I will mail them. Thank you. :-)
<bmonty> caleb-:  check back here in a couple hours and someone will probably be able to help you, sistpoty runs REVU
<caleb-> bmonty: OK.
<Se7h> whata...need hint
<Se7h> usr/bin/fakeroot: debian/rules: /usr/bin/make: bad interpreter: Permission denied
<Se7h> debuild: fatal error at line 768:
<Se7h> dpkg-buildpackage failed!
<tuxmaniac> I did a debuild of XCircuit after doing the necessary changes in control, changelog files!! This is the error
<tuxmaniac> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12387
<tuxmaniac> can someone help me out!
<slomo_> sivang: pong?
<Pupeno> Helo.
<Pupeno> If I upgrade a package now, which is on Universe, will it get into Dapper's Universe ?
<slomo_> Toadstool: ping?
<Toadstool> slomo_: pong
<slomo_> Toadstool: we could update zeroconf now :) do you have any changes to the debian package or could we sync?
<Toadstool> slomo_: no changes except the policy thing...
<Toadstool> +for
<slomo_> Toadstool: yeah but i'm not entirely sure about it anymore... it's arguable whether this is a config file or not ;)
<Toadstool> indeed :)
<Toadstool> well, I think you can sync it then
<slomo_> cool... so subscribe ubuntu-archive and add a comment about which version we want to sync from where :)
<Toadstool> slomo_: ok, let's go
<Pupeno> nobody can answer my question ?
<slomo_> Pupeno: maybe... but i don't understand your question :/ what do you mean with upgrading it?
<Pupeno> slomo_: take the upstream version, take the deb sources, upgrading the deb sources to the new upstream version, uploading the new version to revu.
<slomo_> Pupeno: maybe... but you would have to file a UVF exception to get new upstream versions into dapper at this point (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html)
<Pupeno> slomo_: that's why I asked for, this isn't worth any exception, so, there's no hurry; I can take as much time as I want to re-package it.
<slomo_> Pupeno: does debian already have the new version?
<Pupeno> slomo_: doubt it.
<slomo_> which package is it? and which version? :)
<Pupeno> lyx, current version 1.3.6, upstream: the new and much improved 1.4.1
<Pupeno> slomo_: I am trying to find out if it is in Debian, but with my dial up, packages.debian.org is still loading.
<slomo_> http://packages.qa.debian.org/l/lyx.html
<slomo_> they don't have it yet
<slomo_> but they don't seem to be very active at all judging from the numbers of open bugs
<Pupeno> not many people use LyX unfortunately.
<slomo_> Pupeno: yes... i prefer to use a plain editor and real latex instead of lyx for example ;)
<Pupeno> If I use a plain text editor, I tend to use restructured text, it has the advantage of being readable.
<Xk2c_> howto to change a .png into a .xpm .png or .svg?
<Xk2c_> howto to change a .png into a .xpm or .svg?
<Xk2c_> needed for an package icon
<slomo_> maybe imagemagick... or gimp if you prefer something with a gui
<Xk2c_> ahh thx will look at this
<Pupeno> Xk2c_: man convert
<Pupeno> to .svg is tricky.
<Pupeno> convert can do that, but there is some other very nice software that can do it.
<slomo_> converting a bitmap to svg is insane anyway
<\sh> good night people
<Pupeno> slomo_: not always.
<Xk2c_> ic slomo_ so i will add my converted file to the burgreport and asked th op if he can provide it direct
<Xk2c_> better quality i think
<Xk2c_> oki do folks have a nice day
<crimsun> slomo_: plans to merge Tim's patch for the musepack bug to Gst post-Beta?
<slomo_> crimsun: we will get it real soon... gst (and -base, -python) are in hard freeze upstream now and seb will update to the new versions as soon as the tarballs are released
<slomo_> no need to backport anything
<crimsun> slomo_: np, great to read
<slomo_> but i'll backport some fixes for plugins-bad ~2 weeks before dapper release when there is no new tarball
<crimsun> great :)
* crimsun reopens his bug list and groans
<slomo_> i have a feeling that we can dump xine, mplayer, vlc and everything non-gst for dapper+1 ;)
<crimsun> heh, if only ;)
<slomo_> what critical bugs do you have left btw? :)
<crimsun> #34831 for starters
<crimsun> bug #34831
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 34831 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Hardlock of entire system (Dapper Flight 5)" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34831
<slomo_> uh :(
<slomo_> at least there are possible fixes
<slomo_> crimsun: you are our alsa master now? :)
<crimsun> I dunno about master...
<slomo_> Tonio_: ping?
<Tonio_> slomo_: pong
<slomo_> Tonio_: is your nm-openvpn package ready for review? :)
<Tonio_> slomo_: yup :)
<Tonio_> slomo_: you can test them from my test repo also :)
<Tonio_> works nicelly here, although it doesn work with p12...
<slomo_> p12?
<Tonio_> slomo_: container that avoids using 3 files :)
<Tonio_> a .p12 file is a container for the key and 2 cert files needed
<slomo_> btw, you should coordinate with mbiel as he packages the openvpn stuff for debian ;)
<Tonio_> slomo_: I will once the packages are approved :)
<slomo_> better do it before... i guess you could've saved much work because he has the packages already finished afaik :P
<Tonio_> the vpnc module is uploaded too, but I an't test it, since there is no sisco vpn server I can connect too
<slomo_> i could test the vpnc one on tuesday
<Tonio_> slomo_: great ;)
<Tonio_> slomo_: note that I just polished the packages already submitted to revu
<Tonio_> so it didn't take me long :)
<slomo_> but it took time for j ;) please really really coordinate with mbiel... i would hate to have bugs in debian that are fixed for us and bugs in ubuntu that are fixed in debian :P
<Tonio_> slomo_: true ;) do you know his email address ?
<slomo_> Tonio_: please add the versions that are required in configure to debian/control
<Tonio_> it is late and my eyes are about to close :)
<slomo_> Michael Biebl <biebl@teco.edu>
<slomo_> mbiebl, not mbiel ;)
<Tonio_> thanks ;)
<Tonio_> that's why I was unable to find on google hehe
<slomo_> he also made the network-manager packages for debian
<Tonio_> okay
<Tonio_> about the version in debian/control, I'm adding it right now
<slomo_> and you guys should really coordinate better... i hate it when the same work is done twice even if i'm not involved ;)
<slomo_> Tonio_: do you want all other comments here or in revu?
<Tonio_> slomo_: probably revu, as they would help other people too
<Tonio_> slomo_: I agree with you concerning coordination yes
<Tonio_> that's something I have to work on
<slomo_> hm, what about a watch file? :)
<slomo_> and there's some copyright missing
<slomo_> auth-dialog/gnome-two-password-dialog.c:   Copyright (C) 1999, 2000 Eazel, Inc
<slomo_> for example
<slomo_> and po/fi.po:# Copyright (C) 2006 Ilkka Tuohela
<slomo_> you should add the copyright on a per file basis in debian/copyright
<slomo_> and for the "main" copyright holder something like "for everything not explicitely noted below\nCopyright (c) 1234-2345 bla bla"
<slomo_> po/vi.po:# Copyright  2006 Gnome i18n Project for Vietnamese.
<Tonio_> slomo_: as the stuff was taken from the svn repo, and not officially released at the moment, I don't think a watch file is required
<slomo_> ok but then you should use a "normal" svn version as version number
<Tonio_> okay concerning the copyrights
<slomo_> 0.0.0+svn20060416-0ubuntu1 or something
<Tonio_> yep
<Tonio_> hum conerning the version, there is no version checking in configure
<Tonio_> should I had the ubuntu actual version then ?
<slomo_> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(DBUS, dbus-glib-1 >= 0.30)
<slomo_> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(NETWORK_MANAGER, NetworkManager >= 0.4.1)
<slomo_> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(GTK, gtk+-2.0 >= 2.6)
<Tonio_> damn, I missed it....... okay sorry
<slomo_> np :)
<slomo_> ok, so now let's build it :)
<slomo_> Tonio_: could you fix network-manager-vpnc too and ping me afterwards? i guess the same things apply there too
<Tonio_> slomo_: sure :)
<slomo_> is nm-kde at the same state as nm-gnome btw?
<slomo_> oh
<slomo_> womble: network-manager-openvpn: old-fsf-address-in-copyright-file
<slomo_> fix it please :)
<womble> slomo_: Uhm...
<slomo_> womble: oh sorry... xchat's ugly nick completion :(
<slomo_> should've been W:
<slomo_> Tonio_: ^---
<slomo_> Tonio_: and you should consider building with --as-needed... the generated dependencies seem to be a bit verbose :) but i guess the same applies to network-manager too
<Tonio_> did I miss the good fsf address ???
<Tonio_> damnit, I'm really tired
<slomo_> seems like it... i have to ask lintian for the current one too every time :)
<slomo_> for the libraries in /usr/lib... in a perfect world they would've been in network-manager's plugin directory instead of /usr/lib :(
<slomo_> and are you sure that you want to ship .la and .a files for the library?
<slomo_> Tonio_: but i guess that's it :) ping me when you fixed all of them
<Tonio_> slomo_: hum... that's quite major change no ?
<Tonio_> we can ping redhat to change that, but I'm not sure it'll be accepted ;)
<slomo_> yes don't change it but kick redhat for beeing stupid ;)
<slomo_> /usr/lib should contain only libs that may be of any use for other programs imho
<slomo_> pkglibdir, i.e. /usr/lib/package/ is for "plugins" or private libraries
<Tonio_> okay ;)
<slomo_> iirc this is also definend in the FHS
<Tonio_> slomo_: fyi, yes, the kde frontend is the same state than the gnome one
<slomo_> ok :)
<slomo_> is it the same source package btw? because in pkg-utopia svn there is networkmanager and knetworkmanager
<pkern> Where are reasons for main removals logged?
<slomo_> nowhere afaik
<pkern> |:
<crimsun> removals or demotions?
<pkern> demotions
<slomo_> things get demoted when nothing depends on it anymore, it's not suitable for main (too unstable etc) or deprecated
<crimsun> reasons you'll have to ask kamion (or mdz); you can check anastacia for the simple listing [http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt] 
<siretart> pkern: the general goal is to have only packages covered by seeds in main. the rest is not supposed to be in main
<pkern> I know that the dependency was removed. It's just that there are no reasons in the changelog.
<Tonio_> slomo_: no, packages are different, since the knetworkmanager is developped externally by suse
<siretart> pkern: what package are you currently talking about?
<pkern> siretart: gobby
<siretart> it is in main at all? interesting..
<pkern> siretart: It was.
<slomo_> it's in universe now
<slomo_> but was in main
<siretart> ah
<slomo_> and pkern is the maintainer
<pkern> siretart: I just don't find a demotion reason.
<pkern> slomo_: Just the Debian maintainer.
<slomo_> yes
<crimsun> I'd ask infinity or kamion later today/tomorrow
<slomo_> well, ask mdz or kamion
<pkern> I guess I should ask ogra.
<crimsun> if he requested the demotion, sure
<siretart> pkern: is gobby covered by any seed?
<crimsun> it can't be now
<pkern> siretart: It was covered by edubuntu-desktop, but was removed from it, so it got demoted.
<pkern> It's just that not even googling reveals anything. ;)
<crimsun> pkern: try grepping fabio's logs for #ubuntu-devel and #edubuntu
<pkern> Not that I care too much, it will enable the howl bindings.
<siretart> pkern: ah, I see.
<pkern> crimsun: When I find them. :p
<Tonio_> slomo_: just uploaded corrected packages to revu
<crimsun> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<pkern> Thanks
<siretart> pkern: if you want it back in edubuntu, then yes, ogra is the right person. if you want it back for ubuntu in general, it should be included to some main seed. but this is a decision of mdz/Kamion
<slomo_> Tonio_: ok :) i'll take a look again
<pkern> 07:28ogragobbys upstream decided to switch to howl ...
<pkern> Bah.
<pkern> Kids.
<Tonio_> slomo_: hope it is nice now
<slomo_> Tonio_: still wrong version :) don't forget you use a svn snapsh0ot
<pkern> He didn't even tell me. ):
<siretart> pkern: so no chance to use it with avahi?
<Tonio_> slomo_: wait for revu to sync ;)
<pkern> siretart: I'm currently *developing* native bindings.
<Tonio_> slomo_: not up to date at the moment
<pkern> siretart: With currently being in these minutes.
<pkern> siretart: But it won't go into 0.3.x
<slomo_> pkern: ask DanielHaischt on #avahi to port it :) he ported million of apps to avahi already
<pkern> siretart: And I wouldn't care if 0.3.x contains Zeroconf, he could just deactivate it.
<pkern> slomo_: Well I got into trouble with the port, so thanks for the pointer.
<pkern> slomo_: Is this his IRC nick?
<slomo_> pkern: or you could ask me as well, i made a port of mt-daapd some time ago
<slomo_> pkern: yes
<slomo_> pkern: but he's not there atm... probably will be tomorrow again
<pkern> slomo_: Well publishing works fine.
<pkern> slomo_: I registered the browser, got a valid pointer back, but then I don't receive *any* callback.
<Tonio_> slomo_: should be okay now ;)
<slomo_> pkern: oh no idea... i only made publishing :) you could also ask sebest in #avahi
<pkern> Now there would be the possibility that local services could be supressed, but they couldn't.
<slomo_> is gobby written in C?
<pkern> slomo_: I asked there half an hour ago, no reply yet.
<pkern> slomo_: C++
<pkern> slomo_: I've implemented a wrapper around Howl and around Avahi in obby.
<slomo_> pkern: hm, you could take a look at rhythmbox' code then
<Tonio_> slomo_: did the gnome ubuntu crew looked at listengnome ?
<Tonio_> it appears to be really nice according to what my friends using gnome told me
<Tonio_> lots of people compare it to amarok :)
<slomo_> Tonio_: can you give me a url?
<Tonio_> slomo_: http://listengnome.free.fr/
<Tonio_> slomo_: screenshots are really nice ;)
<slomo_> ah that thing
<slomo_> i don't like it at all
<Tonio_> ah ?
<slomo_> too confusing UI imho :)
<Tonio_> hum, looking at the screenshots, it look like amarok, really ;)
<slomo_> i mixture of itunes and muine with no thoughts about integrating those two
<Tonio_> maybe to close to a kde UI for gnome users ^^
<slomo_> maybe ;) i don't like amarok for the same reasons :P
<pkern> Back ):
<Tonio_> I love amarok, to be honnest, it is the software that made me switch to kde after one year using xfce ;)
<Tonio_> slomo_: revu is up to date now, fyi :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-22
<Tonio_> anyway, it could be nice to have a package for ubuntu, since amarok is so popular.... there is no reason listengnome could not fit lots of people awaitings...
<pkern> Gobby's just messed.
<pkern> lol
<pkern> Oh well...
<slomo_> Tonio_: so package it :) i'm not really interested in packaging it
<slomo_> Tonio_: but i'll take a look at revu now :)
<Tonio_> slomo_: I have a principle in my life, dedicating my work to kde and kubuntu :)
<Tonio_> that doesn't use QT ;)
<slomo_> networkmanager-openvpn doesn't use qt :P
<Tonio_> but seriously, I'm not used to pakcage gnome apps at all ;) would be easier for an experimented gnome apps packager to do it :)
<Tonio_> slomo_: true, but that's a component to a qt appliation :)
<Tonio_> that's what I call "a required exception" :p
<pkern> Ah bah. The Gobby Ubuntu patch is so messed that nobody could read anything out of it.
<pkern> Is there any Ubuntuian way to get the source of the Debian base revision?
<pkern> Apart from crawling archive.debian.{org,net}
<slomo_> pkern: ask ogra what he have done to your package :)
<pkern> slomo_: I think he changed one single line.
<slomo_> Tonio_: ok, so when we get a package that uses qt and gtk we work together on it ;P well, with avahi i already have one but anyway...
<Tonio_> slomo_: hehe ;) I never met a package using both in the same sources
<Tonio_> slomo_: are there packages like that ?
<Tonio_> I mean, with the same tarball
<pkern> Tonio_: Avahi builds both Glib and Qt-related stuff
<slomo_> Tonio_: avahi and dbus for example
<Tonio_> slomo_: okay ;)
<Tonio_> but really, my knowledge is really too limited at the moment to even think about working on something like dbus :)
<Tonio_> slomo_: you should know I'm using linux since less than 2 years, so..... :)
<cbx33> heya
<Tonio_> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hi Tonio_
<slomo_> Tonio_: well... when i have qt-related avahi questions i'll ask you :)
<cbx33> howz it all going today
<Tonio_> slomo_: I doubt I could help, but I'll enjoy to try :)
<cbx33> Tonio_, i know the feeling
<cbx33> i sometimes feel really useless here
<cbx33> i can't fix many bugs...at the moment
<cbx33> I'm a good coder, but not in languages that are used in ubuntu much like python and c
<Tonio_> cbx33: anyway, working on "too hard for us" things is the best way to increase our knowledge
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> I'm getting more and more into this.  I love helping out the ubuntu project
<cbx33> wish there were more bugs I could fix :p
<Tonio_> and limited knowledge never prevent me from contributing :)
<cbx33> it would be great to have a short training in bug fixing
<cbx33> Tonio_, i agree
<cbx33> I still do everything I can to help out
<Tonio_> but of course I wasn't doing the same things one year ago than the ones I can work on now :)
<cbx33> just wish i could do more
<cbx33> well I've only just started
<cbx33> like a week ago
<Tonio_> can sound strange, but I did my first website the day I got internet at home
<Tonio_> and I started contributing to ubuntu the day I decided to switch to linux on the desktop, one year ago
<Tonio_> ;)
<cbx33> wow excellent
<Tonio_> one and a half exactly ;)
<cbx33> heheh nice
<cassidy> "png is not a good format to add in an source package (its a binary format)."  --> I'm not the only one to find that stupid?
<cbx33> cassidy, where's the quote from :p
<Tonio_> cbx33: and beleive, it is really hard to help when you just understand what the difference bewteen gtkl and qt is lol
<cassidy> cbx33: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rasmol/+bug/39427
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39427 in rasmol "Package doesn't have an icon" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<Tonio_> cassidy: I agree with this
<Tonio_> I personnaly use an svg file and use an algo to generate pngs during the build
<Tonio_> that's the best way to do
<cassidy> why? it doesn't change anything
<Tonio_> cassidy: it changes ONE thing
<Tonio_> a source is supposed to "modifyable"
<cbx33> Tonio_, I agree
<Tonio_> and sorry, but a png isn't modifyable the same way an svg is...
<Tonio_> I don't like debian folders with non docbook files for man
<cassidy> if the file IS a png file. It's stupid to convert it into xpm to make it png during the build
<Tonio_> like direct .1 files........ they are unmodifyable
<Tonio_> cassidy: in that case yes
<pkern> Tonio_: Eh. If they are the source file? roff files are modifyable.
<Tonio_> if the provided file is a png in the tarball, I don't mind
<Tonio_> but I've seen people adding pngs to the debian folder
<Tonio_> I don't like that
<cassidy> and there are tons of package with png in their source
<pkern> Tonio_: Things in the debian/ folder are supposed to be diffable against the tarball.
<Tonio_> cassidy: yes, but reguarding the packaging, I prefer to add svg stuff than png one
<Tonio_> if upstream adds png in the tarball, there is no reason to change that
<Tonio_> of course :)
<cbx33> indeed
<Tonio_> although I would prefer to have svg files inside :)
<slomo_> Tonio_: there exist people that write roff by hand instead of writing docbook ;)
<cassidy> Tonio_: ok, thanks for explanation :)
<pkern> slomo_: Count me on your list. ;)
<slomo_> and if there is only a png use the png uuencoded in the diff
<Tonio_> slomo_: there are people that can generate a binary using 1 and 0 ;)
<Tonio_> there are genius (almost crazy) ;)
<slomo_> and send it upstream
<slomo_> Tonio_: there are weird people out there, yes ;)
<Tonio_> cassidy: look at the source package for wlassistant for example
<pkern> Tonio_: What do you say about People writing LaTeX?
<pkern> Tonio_: Not that roff is that different, in principle.
<slomo_> pkern: like me? ;)
<Tonio_> cassidy: instead of adding pngs to the debian folder, I'm using an svg file and generate svgs during the build
<pkern> Tonio_: Which needs such a builder as a build-dep.
<Tonio_> pkern: I don't know latex enough to talk about that :)
<slomo_> Tonio_: and what happens when you don't have a svg but only a svg? :P
<Tonio_> slomo_: I'm doing the svg ;)
<pkern> I don't consider writing SGML as so superior.
<Tonio_> as I did with adept for example :)
<Tonio_> svg is nicer since you don't have size limitations with it
<slomo_> Tonio_: well, i am not talented enough to create nice icons :P but i would do them as svg too
<Tonio_> so in order to build clean icons, I think svg as a base is the nicer choice
<slomo_> Tonio_: but when i add an icon i get it from someone else (upstream most of the time) and when it's png i can't do anything about it
<pkern> Tonio_: In order to use a desktop to use only free software is the nicer choice.
<Tonio_> slomo_: no need to be talented :) consider adept is my first svg job;)
<pkern> Tonio_: Sometimes you get binary files and you can't help it.
<Tonio_> it took me about 12 hours to do it since my skills were about zero :)
<cassidy> Tonio_: ok ok. We can do that from xpm file too ?
<pkern> Tonio_: Just as like sometimes one needs to use proprietary software.
<Tonio_> pkern: that can happen of course
<slomo_> pkern: yes? when for example? :)
<Tonio_> I do use proprietary software when there are no alternatives
<pkern> slomo_: I have yet to see nice math software.
<Tonio_> like java.... I can avoid using it for my work, and have no pb with this
<pkern> slomo_: Maple and Mathematica come to mind.
<slomo_> pkern: ok, accepted... i thought you meant for the icon stuff... i use mathematica myself
<Tonio_> I just think a source work has to be full source based
<pkern> slomo_: In general.
<Tonio_> and png isn't ;)
<pkern> slomo_: It was just an analogy.
<Tonio_> cassidy: xpm files don't give a good result with big icons, so I generally hate it....
<Tonio_> svg is way nicer, although it is a bit bigger, I admit
<Tonio_> but what is 2 kB disk usage nowadays ?
<pkern> Tonio_: Consider the 100 USD laptop
<pkern> Tonio_: Not that they need colourful icons
<Tonio_> pkern: I don't consider them since this project will never work....
<slomo_> Tonio_: but about java... i have yet to see a reason why i should install one of the commercial jre/jdk... for everything i need classpath/gij is good enough
<pkern> Tonio_: It won't?
<Tonio_> pkern: I don't consider giving "pseudo" computers to poor people is a solution...
<Tonio_> pkern: I hope it will, but I don't think it will
<pkern> Tonio_: What's so pseudo about them?
<pkern> Tonio_: You share this attitude with Gates. ;)
<Tonio_> pkern: the ability to perform simple tasks the same way that we can do it from 10 years
<pkern> Tonio_: Which are?
<Tonio_> pkern: and ? bill gates is certainly wrong on many points, but I think considering his experience is helping africa for example
<pkern> Tonio_: Heck, I even use a P2-350 myself for video streaming. And they have a 500 MHz.
<Tonio_> he should have good reasons to beleive that can't work
<Tonio_> and yes, I share this opinion on that point :)
<Tonio_> I don't have any problems with this
<Tonio_> pkern: they have 500 mhz, but no hdd, and no battery
<Tonio_> what can you do with it ?
<hub> Tonio_: Bill Gates opinion on this matter is purely FUD
<Tonio_> no multimedia, no cpu usage or it might shutdown in 5 minutes........
<hub> Tonio_: because he has been turned down
<Tonio_> honnestly, those 100 USD pcs are a shame
<pkern> Tonio_: half a gig of hdd is not enough?
<Tonio_> hub: it may, I didn't say "I agree with his arguments", I just share the same opinion, but with MY understanding and MY arguments
<Tonio_> pkern: exactly
<hub> Tonio_: the OLPC is about education
<pkern> Ew.
<hub> education for everybody
<hub> education is a right that some countries do not offer, unles you have money. (/me points at a few G8 countries)
<pkern> Tonio_: 1:10 physical work to battery energy isn't too bad, either.
<Tonio_> pkern: I think is can be possible to provide really better stuff for 100 USD
<pkern> hub: Well does G8 include Russia?
<Tonio_> can you imagin the number of computers companies trash every year ?
<pkern> Tonio_: Oh. I guess the UN really wants to hear how. Seriously.
<hub> Tonio_: go ahead, submit your design?
<Tonio_> PIII 1.2 gigs with 256 megs of ram
<pkern> Tonio_: They aren't better...?
<pkern> Tonio_: There are projects collecting those, yes.
<hub> Tonio_: you also forget that that thse computer needs a 220V AC plug
<pkern> Tonio_: How do they get the power for them in Africa? And where are the trashed monitors?
<Tonio_> pkern: in my opinion, it would be better to recycle those computers that can perfectly do the job
<hub> Tonio_: the one you threw away
<pkern> Tonio_: Mind you... You don't have power everywhere in Africa.
<pkern> Tonio_: Heck, you don't even have water everywhere.
<hub> Tonio_: and how do they use it? how do they bring it home?
<pkern> And solar power is expensive.
<pkern> hub: At school there's another set ;)
<Tonio_> pkern: people that don't have power need lots of things before informatics.........
<Tonio_> like power ;)
<pkern> Tonio_: Perhaps... education?
<Tonio_> like water network
<pkern> Tonio_: They shouldn't learn informatics.
<hub> Tonio_: *education*
<Tonio_> pkern: and ? education doesn't obviously require a computer
<pkern> Tonio_: But get a general education.
<Tonio_> don't forget the world didn't start in 1990
<hub> Tonio_: you are spoiled, you live in a country were you all have electricity and free post secondary education
<hub> quasi-free
<Tonio_> yes, they need education
<pkern> Tonio_: Education without the internet is hard nowadays. How are they expected to participate in the world.
<Tonio_> pkern: I don't agree
<hub> pkern: not even
<slomo_> Tonio_: about the nm plugin... why do you reload the dbus configuration in postinst?
<Tonio_> education without internet is perfectly possible.......
<hub> Tonio_: you can ask your questions on #olpc
<pkern> hub: If one thinks that they should solve their problems on their own, given sufficient education, is it.
<Tonio_> I didn't saw a computer at schol before I was 20, and that didn't prevent myself to learn mathematics, history etc......
<hub> Tonio_: but you had books, didn't you?
<cassidy> Tonio_: How can i generate a xpm from a svg ? It seems rsvg-convert doesn't do that
<hub> cassidy: from any PNG
<Tonio_> slomo_: I only did that since the package I used as a based did it, and I assumed there was a good reason to do it ;)
<hub> cassidy: ImageMagick can do that
<Tonio_> slomo_: I didn't investigate more than this :)
<Tonio_> cassidy: I never use xpm
<cassidy> Tonio_: it's for Debian menu
<Tonio_> cassidy: but there are ways to generate png files from an svg ;)
<Tonio_> look at wlassistant for the complete mecanisme
<slomo_> Tonio_: hmm... ok, it doesn't hurt so let's leave it ;)
<Tonio_> cassidy: hum....... I assume you can do svg -> png -> xpm
<cassidy> so i do png -> svg. I put the svg in the package and during the build : svg -> png -> xpm 0_o
<Tonio_> but I don't know if direct conversion is possible
<Tonio_> cassidy: png -> svg will give a very bad renderring
<Tonio_> so if you don't have a "real" svg, better uuencoding the png file maybe :)
<pkern> cassidy: Only if you trace the png somehow. Plain embedding isn't fun.
<hub> Tonio_: if I had to stick to what I learned with my teachers, I wouldn't even be here
<hub> Tonio_: that problem is that you are focused on technology
<tritium> png -> svg would indeed be a suboptimal choice
<cassidy> that you, you want svg everywhere ;)
<Tonio_> hub: I am not
<Tonio_> hub: I consider that to learn, except informatic things, books are the best way
<Tonio_> and honnestly, I would prefer to ear, there are plans to get power to all africa, than giving them computers that can fit with the power missing issue......
<tritium> Tonio_: and good educators!
<Tonio_> I don't say that's right, and we will know if I'm wrong in a few years
<Tonio_> tritium: yes, that abvious :)
<tritium> certainly, though, I agree with you, Tonio_
<Tonio_> I hope I'm wrong, but I'm sik of earing they have "pseudo medecine" for their health, "pseudo water full of virus", now pseudo computers looking like toys.......
<Tonio_> it is not the good way to help them in MY opinion
<slomo_> pkern: thanks for the sda bug :)
<Tonio_> but as I'm not there to help, I think I may shut up on that point
<pkern> slomo_: :p
<pkern> slomo_: I don't know if it makes sense, though.
<pkern> slomo_: Considering the Gobby Howl issue.
<slomo_> pkern: it does :) what is the license of the icons etc?
<pkern> slomo_: GPL
<slomo_> copyright?
<pkern> slomo_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gobby-logo.png
<slomo_> ok
<slomo_> could you add this url to the bugreport?
<pkern> slomo_: Thomas Glatt <tom(at)0x539.de> is its creator.
<pkern> Well, I could, yes.
<pkern> slomo_: I just added the content, done.
<pkern> slomo_: I took the SVG version from the repo anyway and scaled it. ;)
<slomo_> pkern: ok :) if you could port gobby to avahi everything would be perfect then :)
<pkern> slomo_: Well, I would also need to backport it to 0.3.x for it to be "perfect". |:
<pkern> slomo_: I doubt it would be stable enough to enter Dapper as a change.
<pkern> slomo_: So I'll target Avahi support for Dapper+1 with 0.4.x ;)
<hub> Tonio_: you see computer like computer, not like a tool
<Tonio_> hub: that's the oposite
<Tonio_> I see computer like a replacement
<Tonio_> without computer, I do in another way
<Tonio_> that's due to the fact I didn't grew with computers
<Tonio_> I started informatics from scratch at the age of 21
<Tonio_> I don't have the feeling a computer is necessary in people's life
<Tonio_> and moreover when they don't have light, water, schools and education
<Tonio_> hub: I don't mean computer is a gadget, but certainly not a priority in people's life
<slomo_> Tonio_: you have my vote for nm-openvpn now... :) is the vpnc one at the same state?
<Tonio_> hub: and not having a computer at home didn't prevent myself from getting my mathematics diploma...
<Tonio_> slomo_: yep, exactly yhe same, except I couldn't test it :)
<Tonio_> hub: and at university I was the only one not using their computers, since I simply didn't feel the ned of it... so plz don't tell me "you don't see computers like tools"
<Tonio_> that's exactly the oposite of my real feeling :)
<pkern> Is vpnc Cisco-VPN-compatible?
<hub> Tonio_: btw, #olpc is probably more appropriate
<pkern> If so, I can test it.
<tritium> pkern: sure is
<tritium> it works quite well
<Tonio_> hub: sure ;) but it is too late here in france to debate this :)
<Tonio_> hub: ping me another day, I would take pleasure debating this :)
<pkern> tritium: Last time I tried it didn't, but that experience is about a year old.
<hub> Tonio_: I won't ping you for that
<pkern> So time to try it again.
<hub> Tonio_: I don't care
<tritium> pkern: same for me.  It worked well for me about a year ago.
<slomo_> pkern: it worked for me one year ago without problems ;)
<hub> pkern: you are gobby developer as I understand>
<pkern> slomo_: Perhaps it depends on the other side.
<slomo_> Tonio_: but before uploading the plugins you really should coordinate with debian about package names etc :P
<Tonio_> slomo_: I promiss to do it ;)
<pkern> hub: Yes, one of two.
<Tonio_> slomo_: we did that for the knetworkmanager stuff, there is no reason we don't do it for the vpn modules :)
<slomo_> Tonio_: ok :) thanks
<hub> pkern: 'cause AbiWord people (not me) are working on a collaborative writing as well
<pkern> hub: I know.
<pkern> hub: Too many people work on such a solution./
<pkern> hub: I can't help that everybody reinvents the wheel.
<hub> pkern: and they do not seem to be willing to try to share
<pkern> hub: We'll build Gobby-over-Jabber support in the next weeks.
<hub> but rather "hack something that work"
<pkern> hub: Yep.
<pkern> hub: We created a library for use in other programs when no Free Software solution was available.
<pkern> hub: Probably MateEdit, the KDE client, will move to obby, but that's it.
<pkern> Or rather KDE collaborative editor
<pkern> hub: I'm a little bit disappointed |:
<hub> pkern: me too
<slomo_> pkern: btw, regarding avahi... you could write to the mailinglist... it's more likely to get an answer there
<pkern> slomo_: I'm not so glad about the attitude of some Avahi devs anyway. I'll start another try later this day.
<slomo_> pkern: what attitude?
<pkern> slomo_: Regarding the howl compatibility layers they built. First they build it, then they threaten everyone who uses it and implement really silly warnings which confuse more than do help.
<slomo_> pkern: heh... that's the only aspect i don't like as well but i don't care enough... people should just port to avahi, it's not too hard anyway
<slomo_> pkern: and the message was meant to be annoying :P
<pkern> slomo_: It's just that the two APIs are quite similar, Avahi provides more hooks, yes. But that's it.
<pkern> slomo_: It did confuse me. I expected my software to be buggy.
<pkern> slomo_: But then it spits warnings about *intended* behaviour.
<pkern> slomo_: I'm ok with the startup message, I mean others.
<pkern> slomo_: IMHO that's not ok.
<slomo_> pkern: and the avahi api is much more structured, powerful and easier to use imho... and avahi is free in contrast to howl/mdnsresponder
<pkern> slomo_: Howl's free. mDNSresponder is not.
<pkern> slomo_: Howl runs on Windows, Avahi does not.
<slomo_> pkern: not dfsg-free... and avahi should be easy to port to windows... it only has to be done by someone who knows windows :P
<pkern> slomo_: The Howl dev wants to port Avahi's mDNSresponder to Howl 2. However I doubt that he'll push that project forward when Avahi builds on Win.
<pkern> slomo_: Howl's DFSG-free. mDNSresponder is not, and it's included.
<pkern> slomo_: I don't think it's that easy to port. Otherwise it would be done already.
<pkern> slomo_: Due to DBUS et al.
<slomo_> pkern: afaik they are working on a fifo based IPC for 0.7 which should work on windows too... and the other parts are easy to port or need no changes at all
<slomo_> but better discuss that with mezcalero :P
<pkern> I don't understand one thing. They built that howl compatibility layer. But why didn't they just port the applications. Perhaps I could find someone who complets the port using my work. ;)
<slomo_> the compat layers were meant to be a iterim solution until apps are ported
<slomo_> and they were done because it would be cool to have itunes etc running with avahi on os x and they could be done ;)
<pkern> Eh?
<pkern> Why would one want Avahi on OS X.
<pkern> Seriously.
<slomo_> for screenshots? ;)
<pkern> And then... Those are not the Howl ones.
<slomo_> yes, those are the libdns-sd ones
<pkern> Oh yeah... let's get rid of that OS X integration, we want to replace it!
<pkern> What about building a free GUI instead.
<pkern> Less waste of resources.
<slomo_> from what i saw the compat layers were only done because they could be done and to produce some screenshots ;)
<pkern> Considering that those bindings are under APSL (which is not DFSG-free, I know... but then it's OSX, isn't it)
<pkern> Oh well.
<pkern> For nice screenshots I want to see Gobby ported to OSX. But that will never happen.
<slomo_> why?
<pkern> What? Why I want it ported or why it will never happen?
<slomo_> why it will never happen
<pkern> It's Gtk after all.
<slomo_> there is a os x port of gtk
<pkern> I know.
<pkern> Not advanced enough to run seriously. |:
<pkern> Perhaps it's worth another try to integrate it into DarwinPorts.
<slomo_> hm
<slomo_> would be a nice SoC project :)
<pkern> But then Avahi is more of a high priority.
<slomo_> to finish it i mean
<pkern> Too big I suppose.
<pkern> Especially because Gtk's menu handling just isn't compatible with OS X's.
<slomo_> some of the freebsd SoC projects were far bigger
<pkern> slomo_: Were they taken and completed?
<slomo_> taken but not completed afaik
<pkern> slomo_: And do you know how advanced the OS X port already is?
<slomo_> one was implementing journaling for the fs iirc
<pkern> slomo_: I don't think they made much of a progress the last months, but I can be wrong.
<slomo_> no idea... it was done by a imendio guy iirc?
<pkern> I guess tomorrow is the next round of mentor organisation approvals/denials.
<pkern> slomo_: Yep.
<pkern> Hm, if strikethrough means completed then the roadmap looks nice.
<slomo_> :)
<pkern> n8
<Kyral> Anyone wanna kill time by talking to me and a friend over HAM while we wait for Dapper to download?
<crimsun> BddebianIsAGod? Word.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> crimsun: I thought you said I was an idiot? :_)
<crimsun> bddebian: me? I may be an idiot, but I don't recall saying you're one. :)
<bddebian> crimsun: You are FAR from an idiot
<bddebian> You scolded me for uploading gxine :-)
<crimsun> you didn't do anything wrong; I was just hoping to get input from Darren prior to an upload. There's no harm done.
<bddebian> :-)
<Toadstool> g'night everybody
<bddebian> What the hell is xclip supposed to do?
<bmonty> from the man page: "annoy the crap out of bddebian"
<bmonty> :)
<bddebian> Yuck, yuck :-)
<bmonty> bddebian: sorry, isn't it supposed to be some kind of ancient clipboard viewer?
<Yagisan> G'day all.
<bddebian> Yeah and I hacked it to not use the /X11R6/ path but when I execut it, it doesn't do anything.  I don't get any errors but it doesn't do anything either.  Though that might be normal behaviour
<bddebian> Heya Yagisan
<Yagisan> bddebian: what's up ?
<bddebian> Nada man, you?
<bmonty> bddebian: I played with some of X apps awhile ago and came to two conclusions:
* Yagisan has been making a nuisance of himself with avidemux
<bmonty> 1. the X build system is fuckin wierd
<bmonty> 2. These apps are not very useful anymore
<bddebian> bmonty: xmkmf is broken currently yes :-)
<bddebian> Well not broken but still using the X11R6 path
<Yagisan> slomo__: around ?
<bmonty> bddebian: yeah, I think any app that is still broken in that way is probably not very useful
<bmonty> bddebian: maybe a morgue candiate?
<bddebian> Well someone must use it, there is a bug filed on it ;-P
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hi bddebian
<Yagisan> bbl
<sivang> slomo__: I changed what you asked with respect to the package, now what's left is the s/binary-arch/binary-indep/
<sivang> slomo__: but I want to understand fully what I'm doing before going on with the change, should I just change it such that binay-indep will be the main target that calls everything underneath it?
* enyc puzzled why ubuntu 6.06 still has Mailman 2.1.5 -- same as the last 3 releases at-current in-fact [!!] 
<Hobbsee> enyc: what's the latest version of it?
<enyc> Hobbsee: 2.1.8 upstream, 2.1.7+2.1.8rc1 in unstable/testing
<Hobbsee> ah ok
<Hobbsee> enyc: it's too late for dapper...but dapper+1 it should get updated
<Hobbsee> esp if you remind someone about it
<enyc> kk
<enyc> its not much changes.. mostly just mailman security updates internally...
<enyc> Hobbsee: I noticed similar abuot 'freedoom' and a bugfix was done, and this was then UVF-exception updated (but its not a arch-specific (compiled) or dependancy-headache package)
<Hobbsee> oh ok.  if it were only bugfixes, then it could probably go in - but if there were new features as well, and if the current package functions...particularly this late in feature freeze...
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I think we could request an UVF exception for mailman, its development is slow and stable enough for that.  It'd make pitti's job easier, if nothing else.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: ah ok
* Hobbsee hadnt heard of mailman before, so was treating it as any other out-of-date package
<Mithrandir> it's in main, though, so it'd have to be post-beta.
<Hobbsee> and when's the beta?
<Mithrandir> Thursday.
<Mithrandir> as in, dapper beta.
<Hobbsee> right, yep
<Hobbsee> yes, of course - unlikely that it's anything else :P
<ajmitch> hi
<Mithrandir> hiya ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<Hobbsee> good, some woman decided to crash into me today..
<Hobbsee> tried to reverse up a one way street - right into me.
<ajmitch> very clever of her
<Hobbsee> very, yes
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
<slomo__> sivang: ping?
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> what do you think, is it better to include SPF support in spamassassin or not?
<sivang> slomo__: pong, did you see my backog msg?
<sivang> slomo__: about the s/binary-arch/binary-indep/
<Toadstool> good morning everybody
<slomo__> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi slomo__
<slomo__> sivang: yes... what do you want to know? :)
<sivang> slomo__: Well, I want to know how to change the order of stuff :) and not break the current which builds and works
<sivang> slomo__: I mean, is it just plain s/binary-arch/binary-indep/ ?
<slomo__> sivang: just try to understand the makefile :) there's a build, binary-arch, binary-indep and clean rule... the binary-arch rule should be empty, the binary-indep rule should include everything needed to build that thing, the build rule should call everything that is needed to build (arch and indep) and the clean rule should clean up everything
<Toadstool> stupid question: why does debuild preserve +x right on two scripts when running dh_install whereas my pbuilder doesn't? am I missing something?
<Toadstool> I am a moron, forget about my question...
<koke> hi all!
<ajmitch> hey koke
<MatrixZ> Real: http://www.mailingmania.com/pages/ptp.php?refid=matrixz
<MatrixZ> Real: http://www.mailingmania.com/pages/ptp.php?refid=matrixz
<MatrixZ> Real: http://www.mailingmania.com/pages/ptp.php?refid=matrixz
<zul> heylo
<zakame> hi all
<Toadstool> hi zakame
<zakame> hello Toadstool =)
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> hi zakame
<zakame> hi Hobbsee
<zakame> hi ajmitch__
<monzie> hi all
<jpatrick> hi monzie
<monzie> hi jpatrick
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<Kyral> Is it just me or are the @ubuntu.com addresses getting spammed like nobodies business?
<bddebian> I wouldn't know, mine has never worked :'-(
<\sh> hmm..no...my address never went public :)
<\sh> i receive enough spam for my assassin with @sourcecode.de :)
<Kyral> I use it as my "professional" address
<Tm_T> well
<hub> \sh: hey
<hub> \sh: wassup?
<Tm_T> I don't have one, so no spam problems here ;-P
<\sh> g'evening hub :) still in xandros business? :)
<hub> yeah
<\sh> heard they have now a one man office in germany :)
<hub> yeah
<\sh> hehe...and I heard some other rumours..but this is not for the public :)
<Tm_T> \sh: it wasn't me!
* Tm_T hides
<\sh> nono...has nothing to do with anybody here :)
<Tm_T> damned
<Tm_T> and just when I thought I did something big
<Tm_T> oh well, I also was sleepig ->
<Tm_T> sleeping even
<\sh> I finally managed to win the fight against kamions cdbuilding monster scripts :)
<\sh> grmpf...disconnect
<Kyral> lol, I love the wording of the NetHack license
<wasabi> I uploaded something a few days ago and never got an upload nor reject message (upload.ubuntu.com). I have a feeling it was my key. I recently removed the expiration date, because it expired.
<wasabi> Anyway to check? :)
<bddebian> wasabi: Reject messages are b0rked last I knew.  Especially unstable -> dapper stuff in changelog
* bddebian has done a few :_(
<wasabi> Well... not sure why my uploaded never happened.
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> Later folks
<cartel_> hey motus
<LaserJock> hi cartel_
<cbx33> evenin all
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:RoXaNuTzA] : Yup :D
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:RoXaNuTzA] : Yup :D Nice channel !:D
<RoXaNuTzA> hi all
<crimsun> UGH.
<crimsun> do NOT do that.
<RoXaNuTzA> topic ?
<crimsun> yes, the topic.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:RoXaNuTzA] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | We are in feature freeze now. Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DhIconCacheChanges
<RoXaNuTzA> sorry
<LaserJock> what the heck was that?
<crimsun> no idea, but I'm in a foul mood this evening, so I apologise in advance if I seem snappy
* LaserJock hides from the big bad crimsun 
<chillywilly> what an idiot
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-23
<Toadstool> good night everybody
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hi LaserJock
<jdong> can everyone change topic??
<LaserJock> probably in here
<LaserJock> there aren't really any rules in -motu ;-)
<jdong> lol
<Se7h> :>
<calamari> hi
<calamari> is there an easy way to take a binary package and modify it so that it claims to be a different version?
<crimsun> i.e., download the source and generate a new deb.
<calamari> well, I hesityate to do that.. basically I want to try an older version of a library
<calamari> I can't just install it tho, because it wants to uninstall half my system to do that
<ajmitch> no, the library has changed name for a reason - the newer library isn't compatible
<calamari> the name is the same
<calamari> just another version
<ajmitch> what is the package?
<calamari> libpango1.0-0 and libpango1.0-common
<ajmitch> packages will depend on the newer version of the library for any added features - if you remove it they'll most likely break
<calamari> that's okay, if it breaks I can undo it
<calamari> I'm not intending this to be permanent.. just long enough to see if something changes, and if so, file an appropriate bug report
<ajmitch> then if you really want to do it, lookup the manpage for dpkg-source :)
<ajmitch> you'd unpack the library, change stuff in DEBIAN, and repack it
<calamari> cool, thanks
<Unfrgiven> morning one and all
<ajmitch> hi
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: do you know what information is available to a preinst script? in particular, can it find out what the name of the package being installed is? in my case, for the madwifi-ng drivers, i'm going to use dpkg-divert to overrite/restore existing drivers but i need to know the target kernel version (which I could determine from the name of the package being installed)
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: it's all in policy, I can't remember which
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: hmmm im not able to find any references to this particular point in the policy guide. ill keep looking.
<Xk2c__> i have a question about https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vtk/+bug/29821
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29821 in vtk "merge new debian version" [Normal,Fix released] 
<Xk2c__>  it says fix released but current available version still 4.4.2-8ubuntu1
<crimsun> notabug, see apt-cache madison
<wasabi> Any pygtk wizzes? Trying to subclass gtk.Dialog
<wasabi> but run fails with a GTK_IS_DIALOG assertion.
<wasabi> So, sounds like subclassing doesn't work.
<wasabi> oh maybe I actually figured it out.
<wasabi> yeah woo
<BlakeRG> Harrow
<BlakeRG> would this be the best place to double check bugs in draper drake packages before I submit a bug?
<bddebian> Howdy gang
<bddebian> Heya _jaldhar
<Se7h> hi bddebian
<Kyral> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Se7h, Kyral
<Kyral> Goddamn, Dead Week is next week already
<bddebian> Dead week?
<Kyral> The week before Finals
<bddebian> Ahh
<jaldhar> bddebian: hello
<Xk2c__> good night
<bddebian> Hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<crimsun> no jumping.
<bddebian> Aww, come on :-)
<crimsun> \-)
<bddebian> Holy crap, the bug count just keeps rising.. :'-(
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> and i got rid of a couple yesterday!
<Hobbsee> hi crimsun
<bddebian> Doh, I'm 8 away from my 100 upload mark for Dapper
* bddebian gets back to work
<crimsun> 'afternoon, Hobbsee. And of course homage to BdDebianIsAGod.
* bddebian cries
* Kyral hugs bddebian
<Kyral> There there bddebian, the big bad crimsun was mean to you :P
<crimsun> well I guess I could always reassign these bugs to bddebian...
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<bddebian> Kyral: He's not mean to me, he just likes to rub that stupid wiki page in my face :-(
<Kyral> what wikipage?
<bddebian> BdDebianIsAGod
<Kyral> Night
<bddebian> Gnight Kyral
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: did you sort out your boot issues?
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: i did, it was an issue with powersaved
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: ?!? how so?
<Hobbsee> it was messing up grub somehow, changing something.   i'm not really sure, but i wasnt the only one with the problem
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Toadstool> hi
<cbx33> mornin all
<jmg> arrgh
<jmg> i cant even find the bug i filed today
<freeflying> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> freeflying: pong
<freeflying> dholbach: would you look at this https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/cmake/+bug/36168
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36168 in cmake "need new release for build kde4 package " [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<freeflying> dholbach: we need cmake UVFe for kde4 stuff
<dholbach> if it's assigned to motu-uvf i'll look into it
<freeflying> dholbach: assigned , the upstream tarball's Changelog is the same with old one
<ajmitch> jmg: what's your launchpad username?
<dholbach> freeflying: then i'll look into it... just not now, I'm quite busy - sorry.
<jmg> ajmitch: found it thanks (checked email)
<jmg> 39948
<jmg> hasnt been triaged
<freeflying> dholbach: okey , thanks
<dholbach> thanks
<ajmitch> jmg: right, there's a reported bugs page off your personal page
<jmg> ajmitch: oh thanks
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/tom-nsp/+reportedbugs
<jmg> ajmitch: i registered xenubuntu.com and .org
<jmg> ajmitch: want to make a livedvd that boots images of ubuntu kubuntu and xenubuntu casper
<jmg> er
<jmg> xubuntu
<cbx33> anyone else had trouble signing the CoC
<cbx33> I put spaces in the text as suggested, but it keeps rejecting it
<cbx33> saying the text doesn't match the CoC
<cbx33> 1.0.1 is the version we use now right ?
<zul> heylo
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> I'm still stumped with signing the CoC
<cbx33> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya cbx33
<bddebian> Morning gang
<jmg> # diff -Naur kernel-package-9.001ubuntu15/ kernel-package-10.044/ | wc -l
<jmg> 80010
<jmg> ouch.
<jmg> STBM.
<cbx33> yikes
<cbx33> bddebian: think you could spare a few minutes
<cbx33> to tell if I'm doing something stupid or not :p
<bddebian> I can try :-)
<cbx33> thanks :p
<cbx33> I'm trying to sign the CoC
<cbx33> I've filled a bug
<cbx33> but if I put spaces in the main text, it won;t let me submit it
<cbx33> saying the text doesn't match the original
<cbx33> what's the danger of clear signing it with no spaces in it>
<bddebian> None that I know of but I'm certainly no expert
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ok it's a bug in the new COC
<jmg> # grep -r xen * |wc -l
<jmg> 147
<jmg> :)
<cbx33> Bluekuja: you back yet ?
<cbx33> I got it signed :p
<bddebian> New CoC? Hmm
* bddebian will probably get booted yet :-)
<zul> ill boot you
<bddebian> :'-(
<cbx33> the new one doesn't sign properly
<cbx33> 1.0.1
<bddebian> zul: So, did you upload Toadstool's fix? :-)
<zul> nope launchpad is still broken for me
<zul> go an steel my karma :)
<pkern> ogra: ping
<ogra> pkern, pong
<cbx33> hi ogra
<bddebian> zul: What's broken?
<pkern> ogra: Why didn't you notify me about Gobby's demotion?
<zul> my launchpad id i have 2 of them one of the email addresses doesnt work anymore
<pkern> ogra: I mean, I did use Howl from the start, I only enabled the compatibility layer in the *Debian* package. Now we have obby with Zeroconf support but Gobby doesn't have it because it wasn't pulled/recompiled.
<ogra> pkern, hmm, sorry i was in travelling a lot at this time and you said it howl was needed when i asked
<ogra> s/it/that/
<pkern> ogra: I never said it's needed. It was at all times a configuration option.
<ogra> there wasnt a dependency ont the temporary howl package before
<ogra> (which we dont build since upstream will remove it in one of the next releases)
<ogra> i'll try to talk to mdz about it after beta release
<bddebian> zul: Well get it fixed man :-)
<zul> im in the proccess of doing it
<pkern> ogra: There wasn't a temporary howl package before, it's that easy.
<ogra> yep
<pkern> ogra: I mean actually I did document this in the Debian changelog. It was not a new upstream version
<pkern> ogra: It was just a new Debian revision, and the Gobby one wasn't even pulled. (Not that much changed, but well...)
<ogra> i just didnt know that obby would suddenly depend on it and i neither didnt plan to sync the version we have now
<ogra> s/didnt/did/
<ogra> it slipped through in an autosync since obby was unmodified
<pkern> ogra: So either Gobby stays in universe, but then I want a pull/bin-nmu; or Zeroconf support gets removed from obby through an Ubuntu revision.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> the first one can happen right away, the latter requires a bit of begging at mdz's desk
<bddebian> At, or under? :-)
<ogra> (right away == after beta freeze, which we are having currently)
<pkern> Well do what you want, but do either of them.
<pkern> I hope that the Ubuntu patchsets against Debian packages which were once pulled but aren't now will be fixed at any point of the future. It can't be that hard to fetch the base Debian revision anywhere. Getting it from snapshot.debian.net isn't not the way it's meant to be. In the meantime that's the diff between Debian base and the Ubuntu revision: http://people.debian.org/~pkern/gobby_0.3.0-1_0.3.0-1ubuntu2.diff
<ogra> i know the diff ;) i created most of it ;)
<pkern> ogra: You know all your diffs by heart?
<cbx33> of course he does
<cbx33> ogra is all powerful :p
<ogra> pkern, the small ones, yes
<ogra> thats only a dependency change and a small addition for translatability, i'd resign if i couldnt remember such changes :)
<cbx33> how do we go about suggesting a package to be placed into the universe?
<ogra> there was the UniverseCandidates wikipage (i think it was replaced but has a proper redirect)
<cbx33> kewl ok
<Yagisan> G'day All
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> What's up Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> just laughing at someone who cant read the assignment sheet, and wants me to do their assignment for them...
<Hobbsee> after i specifically warned them in my post that i'd only help people out with specific questions, and not do the assignment for them
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I'm wondering how gentoo could do a GLSA on a project I'm involved in, and declare upstream dead, without actually contacting upstream. They are like 4 releases behind.
<Hobbsee> lol!  okay then!  that seems a bit weird!
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: it's like yay, it's on bugtraq about a week before we know, and we find out via a 3rd party. I found out by reading gentoo weekly news.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<cbx33> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day cbx33
* Yagisan reading up on build systems. automake vs scons etc
<bddebian> Heya Yagisan
<Yagisan> w00t, I'm popular today :)
<bddebian> Yagisan: You are ALWAYS popular :-)
<Yagisan> bddebian: that usually means I stuffed up when I'm always popular
<Yagisan> bddebian: so what did I break this time ?
<bddebian> Nothing that I know of
<Hobbsee> lol
<Yagisan> bddebian: that obviously means you never look at any bug report that I've ever touched ;)
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: bddebian: cbx33: any of you use powerpc ?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: i dont.  nalioth in #ubuntu does though...
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: just trying to get a list of people with one, so I can get test builds (and buildlogs) of an app that seems to have portability issues.
<Hobbsee> ah ok
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I can do amd64 and i386 here (oh man are the 64bit issues :( )
<bddebian> Yagisan: Bah :-)
<Hobbsee> :P
* Yagisan smacks upstreams out of date makefiles around.
<bddebian> Kyral: ping?
<cbx33> ok guys I'm not a MOTU yet, or a Merger, but what if I want to sync a debian package
<cbx33> where can i upload it so i can link to in on malone
<cbx33> do I use my own webspace or isthere somewhere else you guys prefer to use?
<ogra> cbx33, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
* Hobbsee bookmarks ogra's link :D  thanks for that!
<cbx33> ogra: the package isn't actually in the ubuntu repo at all
<cbx33> but it is a dependency for another package
<cbx33> that is in the repo
<cbx33> what happens in this case
<ogra> so first find out why its not in the repo :)
<cbx33> how do i do that ?
* cbx33 puts his thinking cap on
<cbx33> ogra: why isn't the libkwiki-perl pacakge in the repo :p
<ogra> no idea
<cbx33> Package not available
<ogra> find it out ... if there are no legal or other reasons preventing us from distribution, we can just add it
<cbx33> is what it says in the package archive
<ogra> in debian ?
<cbx33> no in the ubuntu one
<cbx33> it's in the debian archive
<ogra> when was it added ?
<Hobbsee> cbx33: but how did the other package manage to build, if one of the dependancies wasnt in ubuntu?
<Yagisan> cbx33: he means, does debian have that package ?
<bddebian> cbx33: Is the source package there?
<cbx33> not that i can see
<cbx33> no not from an apt-cache search
<Yagisan> cbx33: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/perl/libkwiki-perl
<Yagisan> ?
<Yagisan> cbx33: that the package ?
<cbx33> yes
* Yagisan grumbles at all the filecase fixups he is doing. damm case insensitive windows.
<cbx33> Yagisan: so what you think
<cbx33> shall i package it up
<Yagisan> cbx33: considering it is in Debian, it should be synced over. I'm not sure of the procedure for a not in Ubuntu, but in Debian package, so perhaps you may need to bug a more experienced person like ogra for what to do.
<cbx33> ogra:  ogra  ogra  :p
<cbx33> Mr enthusiastic is here requesting some of your awesome knowledge :p
<ogra> Yagisan, cbx33, following the instructions should suffice
<cbx33> will do boss
<ogra> ;)
<Yagisan> ogra: follow instructions ? I've spent 24 years not doing that, do I really need to start now ;)
<ogra> Yagisan, only if you want someone to sync something for you ...
<ogra> else you dont need to care ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> Yagisan: you're 24 too :p
* highvoltage too
<cbx33> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi cbx33
<cbx33> we're hopefully going to do that interview with you guys later on this week or early next
<highvoltage> cbx33: nice
<Yagisan> cbx33: yep. but I'm willing to bet I'm the only 24 year old married, and with 2 kids here.
<cbx33> and I should be joining the edubuntu testing team later
<cbx33> got some suggestions :p
<cbx33> Yagisan: the 2 kids yes
<cbx33> married no :p
* cbx33 has been married 2 years
<cbx33> i have 4 guinea pigs
<Yagisan> cbx33: key word, "and"
<cbx33> htey are like children :p
* ogra has two
<cbx33> ogra: kids , pigs or wifes ?
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> pigs
<highvoltage> cbx33: great, come talk to us in #edubuntu later tonight, we're talking to ogra about that a bit later tonight
<cbx33> one passed away recently we did have 5
<highvoltage> cheers, motu!
<cbx33> I'll do my best
<cbx33> depends if the missus lets me out to play :p
<ogra> highvoltage, in case Bluekuja wants to have the edubuntu-testing membership for his CC application, we should do it before 21:00 UTC ;)
* Yagisan has been married for 4 years, but it's been 7 with the woman I married. My god that's a long time.
<cbx33> if not I'll summarise everything i can and send it out to you guys
<Yagisan> eh, 5 years now. oh god has it really been that long
* cbx33 is applying for CC at some point
<cbx33> but probably hasn't got thr exp yet :p
* cbx33 wants to make MOTU one day
<Yagisan> cbx33: I've been here for about a year now, but I've yet to apply to the CC
<cbx33> i'd like to take a more active role
<cbx33> i love this community...you guys are so helpful :p
<ogra> Yagisan, we have a edubuntu-members team now, you can also apply for that one and get ubuntu membership alongside ;)
<cbx33> I've learnt so much from working in here
<cbx33> ooooh....
* cbx33 jots that one down to
<cbx33> I'm in the middle of deploying edubuntu at the school i work at at the moment
<Yagisan> actually, that is one of the reasons I like it here so much. They don't have an elitist attitude.
<Yagisan> ogra: we do ?
<cbx33> Yagisan: indeed
<ogra> Yagisan, yes, we're awaiting instructions from the CC tonight at the meeting... after that we should be good to go
<cbx33> excellent well done guys
<cbx33> edubuntu roxks
<cbx33> You should definitely make more of the LTSP aspect....
<Yagisan> cool. I'd probably qualify more for edubuntu at the moment
<cbx33> I never even knew it was in edubuntu
<cbx33> that's something everyone here is very keen to try out
<Yagisan> cbx33: can you believe, some of *my* dodgy code was accepted for edubuntu ?
<cbx33> Yagisan: I wish i could say the same
<ogra> not true ... it just ended up in edubuntu ...
<cbx33> without the dodgy part of course
<ogra> it was accepted for ubuntu ;)
<cbx33> ooooh
<cbx33> even better
* cbx33 bows down :p
<ogra> ltsp is no exclusive edubuntu package :)
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> but it's a real buzz over here at the moment
<Yagisan> true, but it has the most users there,
<cbx33> and knowing there is support for it, and indeed that it is provided in edubuntu is a huge selling point
<cbx33> as far as I'm concerned
<cbx33> I can't believe that all my searching about LTSP didn't yield edubuntu as a provider
<Yagisan> cbx33: what systems do you use for edubuntu amd64, i386 ?
<cbx33> i386 at the moment
<cbx33> and a vmware
<cbx33> i got ubu running on this amd64 at the moment
<cbx33> but most of the machiens here are i386
<Yagisan> cbx33: I use amd64 server (64bit :) ), and i386 clients
<cbx33> yeh this uesd to be a server till it half blew up
<cbx33> so i took it for a desktop
<cbx33> right I'd better get ready to go home
<cbx33> ogra: what time's the meeting for edubuntu tonight
<cbx33> GMT?
<cbx33> I'll do my best to pop in
<ogra> cbx33, /join #ubuntu-meeting
<Yagisan> cbx33: I use the server as my desktop. It's my right as owner and admin to have access to accelerated opengl ;)
<ogra> cbx33, type "@schedule your/timezone" there
<cbx33> I'm on cgi-irc right now
<cbx33> I can't goto the channel but I'll check it when i get home
<cbx33> Yagisan: nice
<Yagisan> ogra: that work for GMT+XX ?
<cbx33> ogra: how many hours away?
<cbx33> i'll do the math :p
<cbx33> debuild applies all the pathches and changes to the source doesn't it?
<cbx33> right I'm off see y'all later
<Yagisan> bye cbx33
<azeem> cbx33: debuild just runs debian/rules' build and binary rules, those rules will have to do the actually patching
<bddebian> Hmm, looks like I've missed quite a bit :)
<Yagisan> bddebian: such as ?
<bddebian> All this conversation, I was in the shower :-)
<Yagisan> bddebian: I'm still waiting for the hot water to come back here. (I have a pissy little hot water tank here)
<bddebian> Ah, lovely :)
<Yagisan> bddebian: have a pet package that you like to maintain ?
<bddebian> Nah, I just fix desktop files :-)
<Yagisan> bddebian: I have a pet package (that should soon be ok for ubuntu), and tend to bother the ltsp/edubuntu and motumedia areas of the system
<bddebian> :-)
<ogra> just shoot if you are done
<bddebian> *bang*
<Yagisan> ogra: my package ? it's most likely a dapper + 1 job. Although I occasionally send a copy to revu for comments on packaging
<Yagisan> for i386, is it ok to grep the contents of /proc/cpuinfo and pick a binary based on the results ?
<ogra> during package build ?
<ogra> (i'd do dpkg --print-architecture in that case=
<ogra> )
<Yagisan> ogra: I was looking at runtime. I already use a shell script to launch, and the package does benefit from mmx, sse functions, I just need to adjust the package to build it more then once.
<cbx33> ogra, you still around?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> bddebian: how is Mr. Karma doing today?
<bddebian> Mr. Karma?  :-)  I haven't even checked lately
<LaserJock> bddebian: you have more than doubled your karma now that you are back at work
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> hi LaserJock , bddebian
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<Kyral> Hmm
<Kyral> A scored a changelog entry...when did I add a patch?
* Kyral sighs
<Kyral> More and more do I see the need to create a Ubuntu/Debian Chroot
<LaserJock> you don't have one?
<Kyral> to handle bug patches on EasyChem
<Kyral> nope
<Kyral> I don't even know how to submit a patch to Debian lol
<LaserJock> I live in my Dapper chroot, I don't even have a running Ubuntu box ATM
<tseng> attach it to a debian bug
<Kyral> Gah hard freeze
<LaserJock> tseng: do you just attach it to an email?
<Kyral> well, Rythm box died
<Kyral> I have half a mind to go back to good old XMMS
<crimsun> LaserJock: sure. You can even attach it to an e-mail to control@b.d.o
<LaserJock> crimsun: k, thanks
<crimsun> tags <bug #> patch
<truz24> LaserJock, what is your current OS then?
<LaserJock> truz24: well, right now I ssh into a sarge box from OSX and Windows
<truz24> You mean you're not die hard ubuntu :-)
<crimsun> Kyral: sure, that would work, but I will ignore all sound issues for that unmaintained p.o.c.
<truz24> I've been running dapper on my desktop box... i know its the development version, but it has been stable for me.
<truz24> To be honest, sound has been my only real issue with ubuntu
<crimsun> truz24: bug #?
<truz24> well, its well documented
<truz24> Its the fact that two apps cannot access the sound device at once
<truz24> So if i am listening to an mp3, and I want to watch a flash video, i have to stop the mp3, and restart firefox.
<crimsun> do you have a usb sound device being used as the default?
<truz24> No.  Its an onboard soundcard an I am using alsa in xmms
<truz24> not sure what firefox uses
<crimsun> that, btw, is not a sound issue. That's a Flash issue.
<LaserJock> truz24: I'm die hard Ubuntu, I'm just not exclusive ;-)
<LaserJock> this intel mac is really reminding me how much I love open source (and free) software
<crimsun> until Macromedia/Adobe get a clue and stop hardcoding references to libraries, there's next to naught we can do.
<truz24> crimsun, yes, I can play a video with mplayer and sound with xmms at the same time...
<crimsun> one possible workaround is to install alsa-oss from universe and use aoss firefox
<truz24> Flash seems to hold a handle to the sound device too I guess.  When I get done watching a flash video, i have to close that window.
<truz24> I think skype has some similar issues.
<crimsun> no, skype is a completely different beast
<truz24> Well, I meant that you can't listen to music and be on a skype call at the same time.
<crimsun> skype relies on a very specific mmap pattern, and it simply doesn't play at all with aoss
<truz24> I don't know what would happen if you were listening to music and a call came in.
<cbx33> there any chance of getting libspoon up to .22
<crimsun> file a UVF exception
<Kyral> I'm gonna have to remember how to add a close a bug for Debian...do I just send the diff or the entire new package...and I have no clue how to upload lol
<crimsun> how to close? just send an e-mail to control@
<crimsun> or of course in the changelog (Closes: #)
<Kyral> I don't have to upload it too (its a bug in Debian on EasyChem and I need to know how to affect it)
<crimsun> it's fixed in Ubuntu?
<Kyral> no..
<Kyral> someone caught a spelling mistake
<Kyral> though there was an unrelated bugfix in Ubuntu that I should merge as well into it
<cbx33> crimsun, kk
<crimsun> well mark it 'fixed' + 'pending' then
<Kyral> I'll submit the combined patch to Debian
<Kyral> then when it goes through I'll request a sync from Sid
<Kyral> of course this all takes place AFTER Finals in two weeks
<crimsun> finals were always the most relaxing time for me
<Kyral> no way
<crimsun> semesters sucked arse
<crimsun> way. I was far too busy during the semester to be anything but relieved during finals
<crimsun> (compsci, English lit, biochem)
<Kyral> Well, I'm sure they will understand if I delay it until I'm clear of school
<crimsun> of course
<crimsun> I don't even bother doing bugfixes right now until I'm certain I can set aside a couple hours
<cbx33> crimsun, I know the feeling
#ubuntu-motu 2007-04-16
<Qbal1> tsmithe, i'm watching
<tsmithe> Qbal1: lol you linked that name?
<Qbal1> duh
<sharms> can anyone take a look at my debdiff: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xnc/+bug/45569
<DktrKranz> sharms, you should use 5.0.4-2.1ubuntu1 instead of 5.0.4-2ubuntu1
<sharms> ah it was that, but I changed it
<sharms> I was using: http://www.ducea.com/2006/06/17/ubuntu-package-version-naming-explanation/   as a guide 
<DktrKranz> you should also remove /tmp/X2g8TaQUiE/ and /tmp/esulBGkxNB/
<DktrKranz> nobody uses patch -p4 :D
<sharms> I was in my directory, ran a dpkg-buildpkg
<sharms> then from that, I did a debdiff on the orig dsc and my dsc
<sharms> then I cut out the irrelevant parts that were somehow changed like build options
<DktrKranz> I was referring to lines beginning with that in your debdiff
<DktrKranz> such as /tmp/X2g8TaQUiE/xnc-5.0.4/debian/changelog
<sharms> yeah and I was stating how I did it so you can correct my process
<DktrKranz> there should be some option to pass to debdiff
<Lutin> you're juste missing patchutils
<sharms> ok I installed patch utils, so what is the proper process?
<sharms> Edit deb, create deb with dpkg-buildpackage, create a debdiff using "debdiff"
<DktrKranz> good night, see you.
<sharms> thanks for the input
<Lutin> sharms: if what you want to do is a debdiff, there's no need to build the deb. debuild -S will be fine instead of dpkg-buildpackage
<DktrKranz> you're welcome :)
<Lutin> good night :)
<DarkSun88> Good night all
<dcsmith> Hey, can someone give me a hand, I'm trying to build my first package, and the locale in my chroot is causing problems
<crimsun> first, is the appropriate/desired locale actually set?
<dcsmith> when I try to set it i get statements about directories missing for certaine environment variables LC_ALL
<crimsun> well, use locale-gen
<crimsun> pass it a whitespace-delimited list of desired first-column locales from /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
<dcsmith> that looks like that did it
<dcsmith> nope
<dcsmith> it's not a locale issue after all
<dcsmith> dbus is failing to configure
<dcsmith> it's complaining about update-rc.d
<dcsmith> the arguments look incorrect
<crimsun> if you're building a source package, you should be using sbuild or pbuilder
<crimsun> will you at least pastebin the error spew? Guessing isn't going to help.
<dcsmith> crimsun: in order to get the dependencies I'm trying to just do a configure, make, make install in the chrooted enviroment? Is this right?
<crimsun> if you mean the trial-and-error approach, well, I suppose that's one way.
<crimsun> and I presume you mean build-dependencies
<crimsun> it's much more efficient to simply read the output from the ./configure script [if the package is autotoolised]  to get the build-dependencies
<crimsun> `./configure --help` is a good place to start
<dcsmith> http://pastebin.ca/442051
<dcsmith> so then why do I need the chroot at all, If I run the thing on my machine, can/should I just package it without the chrooted environment?
<crimsun> however you wish to obtain the list of build-dependencies is your prerogative. I've never favoured the approach you take, but it's certainly valid.
<crimsun> err, why are you executing that command?
<crimsun> why not `dpkg --configure -a` ?
<dcsmith> the dbus package was
<dcsmith> with an apt-get install
<crimsun> right, so does `apt-get -f [install] ` fail?
<crimsun> "install" being optional
<dcsmith> but do I even need a chrooted environment to build the package if I've already compiled it and am running it on my machine?
<dcsmith> yes apt-get -f install dbus fails
<crimsun> no, just `apt-get -f install` or `apt-get -f`
<dcsmith> yes that fails, it tries to configure dbus and fails
<crimsun> so, backing up, does `dpkg --configure -a` also fail?
<dcsmith> yes
<crimsun> pass -D3773 to dpkg
<jmg> guys the rdiff-backup in edgy and feisty is bugged
<crimsun> jmg: a bit late to do much about it now...
<jmg> needs to be bumped to 1.1.7
<crimsun> ...more verbosely?
<jmg> at some point...
<crimsun> does it fail spectacularly when initialising? does it corrupt the stream? etc.
<jmg> http://www.mail-archive.com/rdiff-backup-users@nongnu.org/msg01757.html
<superm1> crimsun, if feisty release does get pushed back due to the kernel regressions, is there a chance in the freeze(s) on universe and such being reverted to reflect the new release date?
<crimsun> jmg: ok, so it's a one-liner?
<crimsun> superm1: being /reverted/ ? No chance in hade.s
<jmg> crimsun: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/r/rdiff-backup/rdiff-backup_1.1.9-2/changelog
<crimsun> superm1: it does generally imply we may be a bit more harried/hurried in getting additional fixes in
<jmg> crimsun:      - fixes problem with device files handling as user (Closes: #395096).
<jmg> crimsun:     - fixes problems with storing to smbfs/cifs (Closes: #386983, #404947).
<dcsmith> I get no output from the -D3773
<crimsun> dcsmith: dpkg -D3773 --configure -a gives you /none/ ?
<dcsmith> but I mean all of this is possibly irrelevant anyway
<jmg> crimsun: barf on store to smb/cifsmount
<crimsun> dcsmith: yes, quite - you should create a feisty pbuilder and use it
<dcsmith> crimsun: okay I assume that's in the wiki?
<crimsun> jmg: so we can backport that, sure
<crimsun> jmg: would you like to generate a debdiff?
<jmg> crimsun: okay
<crimsun> dcsmith: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<jmg> jmg: whats the procedure?
<jmg> crimsun: whats the procedure/
<dcsmith> crimsun: Thanks for the help, I appreciate it
<crimsun> jmg: backport the patch [http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/rdiff-backup-commits/2006-01/msg00011.html ]  to the current feisty source package; regenerate the source package; generate a debdiff
<crimsun> `apt-get source rdiff-backup` for starters
<crimsun> oh, hmm, it's in main?
<jmg> yeah
<crimsun> ack, that's even more inconvenient.
<crimsun> I'd go ahead and forget about trying it for feisty. Aim for feisty-updates.
<jmg> crimsun: its an old bug
<crimsun> jmg: the procedure is outlined here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<jmg> crimsun: thanks
<jmg> crimsun: in the meantime i enabled nfs on openfiler
<jmg> :)
<damko> does anyone know how to write a message in the gnome "bubbles" / "pop-up"  (the same that u can see when u unplug the AC for ex.)
<damko> have to go. bye!!
<jmg> nice levels... is -20 or +20 idle?
<RAOF> +20
<RAOF> Because it's *very* nice.  Wheras -20 is very not nice :)
<jmg> RAOF: thx
<jmg> funny
<jmg> when renicing rdiff-backup
<jmg> one must renice sshd as well
<jmg> as the two are inexorably linked
<RAOF> Neither of those are likely to be horribly processor intensive, surely?
<jmg> load average: 3.31, 2.90, 2.20
<jmg> they are processor intensive when they have work to do
<jmg> eg, diffing 60gb of data
<jmg> (p3-800)
<RAOF> Ah, OK.  Still, they're probably more I/O than CPU bound, and nice doesn't touch I/O sheduling (although I *think* there's an ?experimental? I/O version of nice)
<jmg> orly
<jmg> much more I/O than cpu bound
<RAOF> ya, rly.
* RAOF can't believe he just said that :(
<jmg> but linux load average counts processes waiting for io
<RAOF> Yay!  Down to a single page of Banshee bugs.
<jdong> RAOF: ionice
<jdong> RAOF: not experiemntal; but new on the blocks... works if your'e using the default CFQ io scheduler
<jdong> s/blocks/block; no pun intended
<jdong> AFAIK Feisty's kernel will inherit some IO niceness from cpu nice
<RAOF> Awesome.  Cool.
<jdong> it's awsome indeed. A bit of smart ionicing can do wonders to responsiveness
<jmg> RAOF: banshee looks cool
<ScottK> ajmitch or crimsun (or anyone else): We just got a patch into klamav and I think we may have fixed it a little TOO well.  The update to a new version of clamav direct from upstream (compiles it on your local machine) now works.  Is that a good/bad thing?  Do we need to break it somehow?
<ajmitch> explain further
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yes!  more broken packages is even better!
<ajmitch> you mean it overwrites the packaged clamav?
<ScottK> Yes
<ajmitch> how rude
<ScottK> It looks like it works, however.
<ajmitch> it may make future upgrades a little more annoying, and generally mess up things
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> OTOH, when user X complains about the clamav freshclam warnings we can point them at klamav with suitable it's not supported warnings.
<ScottK> Before the latest patch, klamav would sigsegv when you checked for an update.
<ScottK> No it works GREAT.
<ajmitch> heh
<ScottK> No/now
<jmg> compare with similar processes in winduhz
<jmg> virus scanners regularly swaps out application components in updates
<ScottK> The interesting thing is that it compiles right there on the machine.
<jmg> as long as it doesnt add files that wont be managed by dpkg whats the issue?
<RAOF> I suppose that just disabling the update mechanism is pretty useless, for a virus scanner.
<ScottK> I'd built my clamav test packages on that same box, so I had all the build-depends installed already.
<ScottK> Dunno how easy it would be for joe average user to hunt all those up.
<jmg> OTOH, depending on build-essential and liblkdjfalkjdrlkja needlessly bloats the installing system
<jmg> right
<ScottK> Well, except if it's a function of the package to build software, it ought to be able to do that...
<jmg> perhaps the security archive can carry the clamav components and latest definitions?
<ScottK> jmg: clamav is in universe, all it takes is more volunteer labor.
<jdong> jmg: nobody is interested in assuming responsibility for clamav in main, that's the last I heard
<jmg> ok
<jmg> hey wait a minute
<jdong> jmg: but one's welcome to keep it patched up in universe
<jmg> we're on linux.
<Hobbsee> keescook: effectively does
<ScottK> The definitions come through freshclam just fine.  It's the new versions that're the issue.
<ScottK> Hobbsee is correct.
<jmg> riddle me a point for even running clamav
<jdong> keescook: has been wonderful in clamav patching
<jdong> jmg: file/mailserver for Windows machines
<ajmitch> jmg: storing windows files on the box
<ajmitch> & mail
<ScottK> jmg: I run MS Office throug WINE.
<jdong> lol
<jmg> pfft
<jdong> did not expect to hear that one :D
<RAOF> Is wine now good enough to run windows viruses? :P
<jdong> RAOF: no, it gets partway on some
<ScottK> All my customers use Office, so I've go no choice.
<jmg> ScottK: is that because openoffice sucks?
<ScottK> RAOF: Dunno.
<jmg> ScottK: so what happens when you run a windows virus under wine? does clamav even trap it?
<jmg> or do you need to run Symantec under wine as well?
<ScottK> jmg: Because the Office data formats are proprietary and the ooo reverse engineering of them is not perfect.
<ScottK> jmg: Dunno.  I haven't tried and I don't plan to experiment with it.
<ScottK> I don't actually use clamav on the desktop, I just run it on mailservers.
<ScottK> That was meant as an example.
<jmg> Ok. I can see the rationale for clamav on file/mailservers. 
<jmg> But doesnt that make it -server's problem?
<ScottK> jmg: -server is a kernel.  It's all one distro.
<ScottK> I also have it on a laptop because I've had to take it into facilities that require ALL computers to run AV software.
<jmg> kernel and metapackages
<ScottK> yeah.
<jmg> well it seems like you're fracked both ways
<ScottK> So, anyway ajmitch...  I've now warned people.  I dunno what the right answer is.
<dcsmith> so I'm trying to build my first package, and I've built a source package, but when I try to install it, it fails, because it needs root to install into the directory
<jmg> er
<ScottK> dcsmith: Did you build the binary package?
<ScottK> That's what gets installed.
<jmg> you need root to install any package
<dcsmith> ScottK: The problem occurs when trying to build the binary package
<Hobbsee> dcsmith: use fakeroot?
<ScottK> dcsmith: jmg is right.  You need root to install anything.
<dcsmith> ok
<dcsmith> so let me walk through this
<TheMuso> !packagingguide | dcsmith 
<ubotu> dcsmith: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<ScottK> As Hobbsee says you can use fakeroot to get sort of root for building.
<jmg> hey, what do you guys think would be the popularity of a ubuntu-media-center package
<dcsmith> Right, I'm doing that right now
<jmg> installs freevo, mplayer, codecs, lirc et al
<ScottK> To actually install the deb, you need to sudo dpkg -i <packagname-version.deb>
<dcsmith> so I do a dpkg-buildpkg with fakeroot
<jmg> as a metapackage
<dcsmith> then I try to use pbuilder with sudo
<jmg> dcsmith: check permissions. chown the source tree to yourself
<dcsmith> and I get a permission denied installing some libraries
<jmg> doesnt pbuilder drop privilege?
<dcsmith> the src directory is owned by me
<dcsmith> http://pastebin.ca/442245
<dcsmith> jmg: have you looked on the pastebin?
<dcsmith> scottK: have you looked at the pastebin?
<dcsmith> hello?
<ScottK> Unfortunately I'm just on my way to bed.  Hopefully someone else will be able to help you.
<RAOF> I've looked at the pastebin, and I'm not sure about some of the things that it's doing.
<ScottK> dcsmith_: Do know that everyone here is a volunteer.  No one is paid to be here.
<dcsmith_> I understand
<jmg> I think he knows that :)
<RAOF> dcsmith_: *Particularly*, why is it going "rm -rf debian/tmp" and then trying to install stuff from debian/tmp?
<dcsmith_> and I
<dcsmith_> 'm a volunteer
<dcsmith_> and I followed the packaging guide to the best of my ability
<jmg> dcsmith_: try -mentors (is that still going?)
<dcsmith_> the rm -rf debian temp is from the packaging guide
<dcsmith_> I copied the pkging guide for the hello pkg
<ScottK> dcsmith_: You need to remove it from the temp dir after you install it.
<jmg> dcsmith_: url to the guide you used?
<ScottK> Good night everyone.
<dcsmith_> as they're both configure/make/make install based I figured it didn't matter
<RAOF> Ooooh, it tooks like the "make install" is trying to install to install systemwide, where as it should be going to debian/tmp?
<jmg> ah
<jmg> --prefix
<dcsmith_> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html
<RAOF> Or $DESTDIR, one of the two :)
<dcsmith_> wow
<TheMuso> $DESTDIR is generally better.
<dcsmith_> ok I get it
<dcsmith_> i get the problem at least
<dcsmith_> how do i destdir enable a configure make make install based src file
<dcsmith_> shouldn't that already be there
<ajmitch> packaging guide should have at least 1 example
<dcsmith_> ok
<dcsmith_> same url I provided?
<jmg> ajmitch: it doesnt
<jmg> plenty of install -d
<jmg> and cp
<ajmitch> $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
<ajmitch> the template created by dh_make has it also
<ScottK> ajmitch: I upgraded to the current packaged clamav from the one that klamav pulled from upstream and it appears to have gone without error, so I think we are likely OK (or at least not in horrible trouble).
<dcsmith_> ajmitch: do I put that in the control?
<jmg> rules
<ajmitch> probably because the "packaging from scratch" page isn't the best place to start at all
<jmg> indeed
<dcsmith_> ok where is?
<jmg> dcsmith_: i imagine ajmitch is finding you a good place to start
<dcsmith_> sorry for being a little pushy
<dcsmith_> thanks guys for all your efforts
<ajmitch> or ajmitch is busy at work
<jmg> oh
<dcsmith_> heh
<snoops> Hi there, umm I've heard about the new importing system in feisty which imports im settings, desktop favourites etc while it installs.. I would love to add some features to it (but look at the code first)..Can someone give me some guidance on finding the code for it?
<crimsun> snoops: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~evand/migration-assistant/trunk
<evand> snoops: if you have any questions, just ask in here and I'll respond when I can (usually within a few hours)
<snoops> thanks evand, I appreciate that
<evand> snoops: no problem
<evand> snoops: whoops, I thought we were in #ubuntu-installer.  Ask questions in there as it's much lower traffic than -motu.
<snoops> ah, cool
<dholbach> good morning
<dcsmith> Okay so I think I've built my first package
<dcsmith> Is there a way I can get people to review it without officially submitting it?
<RAOF> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<RAOF> REVU rocks.
<dcsmith> Thanks
<RAOF> dcsmith: You'll need to have your key added to the revu keychain, though.  Instructions on that page.
<crimsun> dcsmith: when you've added it, ping me, and I'll sync the keyring.
<raphink> siretart: ping
<damko> good morning to all
<raphink> good morning damko
<raphink> & hi crimsun
<crimsun> hallo raphink 
<raphink> crimsun: are you talking about REVU ?
<raphink> (by any chance)
<crimsun> dcsmith: yep, just waiting on his confirmation that he has done the prelim steps so the keyring sync can be executed
<RAOF> good morning damko.  In answer to your question, the libnotify-bin package contains the binary that you can use to make popup bubbles.
<crimsun> raphink: ^
<raphink> crimsun: did you notice that REVU has been broken for 5 days?
<raphink> packages get in, they get in /var/revu
<raphink> but they don't appear on the web interface
<crimsun> raphink: erck, no
<raphink> I've been trying to ping siretart about that
<raphink> look on the interface, there's no package listed after the 10th of April
<raphink> although there are in /var/revu
<RAOF> raphink: I added a Banshee package yesterday, and it uploaded and appears?
<raphink> ah right RAOF
<raphink> hmmm
<RAOF> Although I suppose that got added to an existing pacakage.
<raphink> well some packages don't show then
<RAOF> Maybe *new* pacakges don't show?
<raphink> no packages got added on the 11th and 12th
<raphink> RAOF: maybe
<raphink> for example
<raphink> tclodbc got uploaded twice in the last 4 days
<dcsmith> crimsun: okay I joined the group
<raphink> and doesn't appear
<raphink> so I guess new packages don't make it in anymore
<raphink> dcsmith: welcome ;)
<crimsun> ** keyring sync running
<dcsmith> raphink: Thanks!
<ajmitch> raphink: packages after april 10 do show
<raphink> yes ajmitch that's right
* ajmitch sees miniracer there
<raphink> ajmitch: any example of *new*packages showing after that date?
<ajmitch> ^
<raphink> ajmitch: several new packages added after the 10th of April (or even before maybe) don't show
<ajmitch> miniracer
<raphink> ok
<ajmitch> for tclodbc:  File "/srv/revu1-production/scripts/register_upload.py", line 51, in parse                                                                                                          
<raphink> then there's still to figure out what's special about these missing packages
<ajmitch>     raise 'Did not find maintainer email :('           
<raphink> ah
<raphink> where did you see that?
<ajmitch> any other packages you know of?
<raphink> ardour2
<damko> RAOF: thanks a lot for your help. very appreciated :-D
* ajmitch is reading cron output
<raphink> ajmitch: do you keep all the emails, or are there logs on tiber?
* ajmitch keeps all emails
<raphink> or mayb in auth.log ?
<raphink> ok
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> then I'm guilty of removing the emails ;)
<Nafallo> remove emails?
<Nafallo> harddrives are cheap :-)
<raphink> huhu
<raphink> :p
<RAOF> *Google's* harddrivers are cheaper :)
<ajmitch> raphink: yeah, you're in the admin group, you should get them :)
<raphink> I do get them ajmitch
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> but I remove them regularly (my fault)
* ajmitch has about 15GB for ~/Mail
<damko> ajmitch: wowowowo :-)
<ajmitch> ah no, only 12GB :)
<crimsun> RAOF: banshee available, marked "fix released".
<TheMuso> raphink: ardour2 was archived
<ajmitch> -rw-------   1 ajmitch ajmitch  1.8G 2007-04-16 19:41 launchpad
<damko> ajmitch: ah .... this changes everything .... only 12
<ajmitch> the result of subscribing to ubuntu-bugs
<RAOF> crimsun: Wooo!
<TheMuso> As we aren't taking that route for that any more.
<crimsun> ** keyring sync completed
<dcsmith> crimsun: Thanks, found a problem w/the pkg, so I wanna fix that before I upload
* ajmitch is very worried about the health of the monitor here - the screen seems to shrink & expand quickly every so often
<highvoltage> what's that filename where I can specify my name, email address etc where dch gets the information from?
<dholbach> highvoltage: 
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ grep DEB .bashrc 
<dholbach> export DEBFULLNAME='Daniel Holbach'
<dholbach> export DEBEMAIL='daniel.holbach@ubuntu.com'
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ 
<ajmitch> probably ~/.devscripts.conf
<ajmitch> sorry ~/.devscripts 
<highvoltage> dholbach: ah, thanks!
<highvoltage> ajmitch: cool
<dholbach> np
* ajmitch just has them in .bashrc though
<ajmitch> for other useful tools like emacs :)
<highvoltage> hmmm.. .devscripts doesn't exist, is there a tool that creates it? (I vaguely remember something like that)
<ajmitch> nope
* ajmitch may be wrong about setting DEBEMAIL & DEBFULLNAME there
* highvoltage just puts them in .bashrc too :)
<CrippledCanary> What's the status on revu today? I just uploaded a package but it doesn't show up.
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh 
<ajmitch> CrippledCanary: depends if you're in the keyring
<ajmitch> and if you uploaded a source-only package
<ajmitch> & that it was to revu, not upload.ubuntu.com
<CrippledCanary> I was in the keyring previously, it was a source package, perhaps the dput config has been changed.
* ajmitch has no record of a failed upload
<CrippledCanary> Ok...
<CrippledCanary> The default has changed from revu to upload.ubuntu. I missed that one.
<CrippledCanary> What is the current routine for uploading?
<ajmitch> dput revu file_version_source.changes
<CrippledCanary> dput I knew about... isnt revu used any more?
<CrippledCanary> at all
<ajmitch> yes it is
<ajmitch> I wrote revu there
<CrippledCanary> Ohh,.,,, 
<CrippledCanary> missed it.
<CrippledCanary> thanks.
<highvoltage> what's the difference between usint debsign and doing a gpg --clearsign file.dsc?
<highvoltage> somehow gpg --clearsign works fine, but debsign doesn't, it says that the secret key isn't available.
<highvoltage> gpg --clearsign works though
<ajmitch> debsign probably uses what's in DEBEMAIL
<ajmitch> or not, looks like it should parse the .changes file for the email address to match
<highvoltage> I think it gets it from the changelog
<jekil> hello
<damko> jekil: hi
<sacater> imbrandon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/sacater
<sacater> imbrandon: how does that look for tommorow
<crimsun> sacater: be aware that the CC may look for more substantial demonstrated involvement, but if you have hearty advocates, it may not be a problem.
<crimsun> sacater: my suggestion is that you expand your "future plans" section. While noble, it doesn't address Ubuntu users foremost.
<crimsun> (not that one must neglect the F/LOSS community at large for the sake of Ubuntu)
<sacater> F/LOSS?
<sacater> crimsun: 
<shawarma> Free/Libre and Open Source Software
<Monk-e> So, is Feisty going to be released withoutn an RC?
<sacater> crimsun: i added more https://wiki.ubuntu.com/sacater
<CrippledCanary> Could someone have a quick look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4822 please.
<sacater> of course
<sacater> scribe log
<sacater> CrippledCanary: what about it?
<CrippledCanary> sacater: Is it ok, have I missed something, policy wise or else
<TheMuso> Ok, buy guys. About to pull down my computer setup, so its ready for the move tomorrow.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<TheMuso> Will be back online as soon as the ADSL gods give the green light on the new line
<StevenK> TheMuso: What, after the Feisty release? :-P
<TheMuso> StevenK: Unfortunately, yes.
<StevenK> Hmph. I was joking.
<TheMuso> Hey I know that.
<StevenK> TheMuso: It's more Telstra I'm glaring at. :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: heh
<sacater> is there a developer of the week thing?
<crimsun> sacater: sort of. There're behindubuntu and behindmotu.
<sacater> crimsun: where are they?
<sacater> s'ok
<sacater> ound
<sacater> found*
<ScottK> Although at least last time behind MOTU was more of a "the guy that was on IRC when Laserjock asked" than developer of the week.
<imbrandon> ScottK, heh
<sacater> imbrandon, did you look at my wiki
<imbrandon> sacater, not yet, but crimsun gave you some good advice
<sacater> i took the advice and worked to it :P
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> Heya
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi ScottK, geser
<Hobbsee> hiya
<siretart> raphink: pong - sorry, I'm on a buisness trip, so I can't look at it seriously until wednesday :(
<siretart> raphink: if you catch sistpoty, try to ping him, maybe he can help as well
<ScottK> I have decided to try and become an Ubuntu member.  If there are MOTUs (or anyone else) that are available and willing to support me in this, the CC meeting is April 17 2007, 20:00 UTC.  My wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottKitterman.  Comments if you have them please. 
<bddebian> w00t ScottK
<StevenK> ScottK: I'd love to, but 2000UTC == 0600 AEST
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.  I understand.
<crimsun> ScottK: send me an email (crimsunkg at yahoo) so that it's added to my cal
<crimsun> I'll try to poke my head in
<StevenK> ScottK: All TechBoard meetings are 2000UTC. It makes attending them not fun.
<ScottK> crimsun: Sent.  Thanks.
<\sh> imbrandon: did you test the 0.9.35 packages of wine?
<imbrandon> \sh, yes, some, so far so good, no regressions that i can tell
<ScottK> doko: would you be avaialble to look at a potentially troublesome Python bug? Bug #106939
<ubotu> Malone bug 106939 in Ubuntu "Python update fails because it appears to require itself" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/106939
<doko> ScottK: you need to find out why update-desktop-database core dumps (called from the python2.5 postinst)
<ScottK> doko: Thanks.  Any hints on how to do that?  I've had remarkably little success myself with debugging postinst problems.
<doko> ScottK: ask the bug submitter to run sudo update-desktop-database, and hopefully you'll get a stack trace / apport report.
<ScottK> doko: Thanks.
<\sh> imbrandon: cool :) thx :)
* \sh needs to go...looking for a flat
<jdong> crimsun: does our VLC build against system or internal ffmpeg?
<Lathiat> heh qdb.us
<Lathiat> <Trinexx> I've come to the conclusion that my spare computer sucks ass.
<Lathiat> <Trinexx> I tried to install Xubuntu on it, and it gave me an OOM error.
<ScottK> Lathiat: How much RAM?
<Lathiat> heh no idea
<Lathiat> as i said, qdb.us :)
<ScottK> Ahh.
<jdong> ScottK: not enough ;-)
<ScottK> That or some other problem.
<LaserJock> dholbach: quick question about MOTU Mentors. Have you filed a request for a mailing list?
<dholbach> LaserJock: no
<dholbach> i thought there'd be more discussion about the topic
<LaserJock> well, everybody I talked to thought it was a great idea
<LaserJock> both MOTUs and MOTU Hopefuls
<LaserJock> a couple did send emails with a "+1"
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'm planning on trying to become an Ubuntu member tomorrow at the CC Meeting.  Any chance you would show up and speak on my behalf? (2000 UTC)?
<LaserJock> I might be able to
<dholbach> LaserJock: can you drop a mail to MC about that? somebody should take care of filing an RT request and making sure it gets done
* ScottK would appreciate it if you could.
* dholbach -> dogwalk - seeyou later
<LaserJock> my schedule has been kinda crazy but I'll certainly try
<LaserJock> dholbach: ok, I'll send it
<dholbach> super thanks
<ScottK> Understand having a crazy schedule.
<marcin_ant_> hi all is there someone that could talk with me about dbconfig-common?
<imbrandon> wow 32+ dead at VA school, man o man, this aint gonna be good
<imbrandon> crimsun, semi close to home for you ( eastern USA )
* ScottK knows people that went there.
<marcin_ant_> stupid country with more guns than people
* imbrandon glares at marcin_ant_ [..] 
<jdong> ouch, virginia tech....
<jdong> ironic that it'd happen on patriot's day :-/
<marcin_ant_> imbrandon, glare at all gun manufacturers and at law in usa that allows to have weapon at home
<marcin_ant_> anyway any dbconfig-common maintainer/user/developer here?
<ScottK> marcin_ant_: This really isn't the time or place for that sort of comment.
<imbrandon> marcin_ant_, me being one of those people , a voteing person that stand firmly behind those laws and our consitution, tread lightly where your about to go because this is not the place, nor am i the one
<imbrandon> marcin_ant_, also all universe packages are maintained in a group effort, so just simply stating a package name will do you little good in getting help /most/ of the time, its better to state specific question then myself or someone familiar with the situation might be able to help
<imbrandon> or atleaste point you in the right direction
* imbrandon is afk a few
<marcin_ant_> ScottK, tell the same to imbrandon - this is also not a place to talk about this at all, eot from me
<marcin_ant_> imbrandon, sure but in dbconfig-common is mentioned that maintainer is motu
<ScottK> marcin_ant_: That's true for all Universe packages that have Ubuntu specific changes.  He's giving you good advice.
<imbrandon> and MOTU is a group of 50+ people, as i said a group effort
<Lin> hi all.
<ScottK> Hello
<marcin_ant_> imbrandon, and I got a problem with this tool (and propably not only me while a lot of packages that depends on dbconfig-common doesn't work properly on my machine)
<Lin> who/how is created /var/run/network/ifstate?
<geser> Lin: ifup/ifdown
<marcin_ant_> imbrandon, so I though that maybe there will be more people that could talk about bugs and eventually solutions for dbconfig
<Lin> hm.... something weird happened on my instalation. ifup didn't started my loopback. :-/
<marcin_ant_> imbrandon, anyway this channel is somewhat quiet nowadays so no problem I will try to find some help elsewhere
<imbrandon> marcin_ant_, well if its just about "bugs" #ubuntu-bugs would be far more helpfull, also "dosent work" is hard to decern what is wrong without more info, this channel is more for the packageing of software
<imbrandon> also launchpad.net is a good place to start / search if there are others 
<imbrandon> with the same issue
<marcin_ant_> imbrandon, ok I will shortly define what doesn't work - dbconfig-common simply doesn't create new database, so I need to create empty database and then install package...
<Lin> geser: is it created when you install the package or while running the command it self?
<geser> as /var/run is on tmpfs it's recreated after boot
<sacater> hey guys... latest linux kernel is 20+ and we are using 15, is there a way for me to get that kernel... compile from source i expect... but would everything still work, eg be compatable
<geser> sacater: I've here 2.6.20-15-lowlatency
<geser> 15 is the Ubuntu API version
<imbrandon> we have .20+ sacater , -15 is *our* version
<imbrandon> err better revision
<sacater> [sacater@neo ~] $ uname -r    
<sacater> 2.6.20-15-generic
<sacater> [sacater@neo ~] $ 
<sacater> i would like 20+...
<sacater> if i can get it...
<imbrandon> exactly, 2.6.20 :) -15 is the revision from us
<imbrandon> there is no -20 that exists
<sacater> what... not anywhere?
<imbrandon> no not anywhere
<sacater> imbrandon: you still coming to meeting tommorow?
<DktrKranz> sacater, as of today you can get 2.60.21-rc7 from kernel.org
<imbrandon> sacater, yea i will try
<sacater> DktrKranz: aha thanks
<sacater> imbrandon: cool, thanks
<sacater> LaserJock: can you do the meeting tommorow?
<DktrKranz> what time will it be?
<sacater> 20:00 UTC
* imbrandon wonders when the next BehindMOTU from LaserJock is comming :) ( you should really get a subdomain/blog dedicated to that imho , like behindmotu.{blogger.com,wordpress.com} )
<sacater> imbrandon: i couldnt find behindmotu in a google search :(
<LaserJock> sacater: I can try
<sacater> LaserJock: great, thanks
<DktrKranz> there are still some [could-not-install]  bugs open
<DktrKranz> did anyone work on them in the past?
<sacater> DktrKranz: kernel.org aint existing
<DktrKranz> if not, I can work on some of them in the next days
<DktrKranz> sacater, they had some troubles recently
<sacater> DktrKranz: so some people are going without kernels :P
<DktrKranz> you can use a mirror
<DktrKranz> www.[countrycode] .kernel.org
<DktrKranz> e.g. www.it.kernel.org
<Lin> geser: even weirdier.. my /var/run lacks of network directory. did you know where the problem should be?
<geser> check if /etc/init.d/loopback is still linked in /etc/rcS.d/
<Lin> which package configure /var/run as a tmpfs?  cause mine isn't in a tmpfs
<geser> /etc/init.d/mountkernfs.sh
<Lin> loopback has a link at rcS.d called S08loopback. Its all right.
<geser> here too
<Lin> geser: mount kernfs.sh too as S01
<Lin> I will reboot to check at console.
<Lin> hmm its complaing about /var/run and /var/tmp do not exist :-/
<crimsun> imbrandon: my mum's alma mater
<sacater> DktrKranz: well, i will try and get that kernel running...
<sacater> DktrKranz: when i go to download it.... its called a 'patch-#-#-#-.bz2
<sacater> DktrKranz: is that right
<DktrKranz> it's right, given the fact you have a full 2.6.20 kernel
<LaserJock> ok people, does http://behindmotu.wordpress.com/ look very Ubuntuish?
<DktrKranz> but you can download it easily
<LaserJock> seems a bit to orangy to me :/
<sacater> LaserJock: yeh mate, dim down the orange
<LaserJock> how about now?
<jdong> now it's brown :-/
<jdong> not that... I have anything against browns
<jdong> I vote democrat.
<LaserJock> brown's good, right?
<LaserJock> it's Ubuntu
<sacater> yeh sure
<jdong> orange looks livelier though
<sacater> DktrKranz: im downloading the full kernel source
<imbrandon> wow looks like a drupal theme :)
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> it is actually
<LaserJock> they made a wordpress theme from garland
<imbrandon> nice
<LaserJock> which is what I'm using on my site
<imbrandon> fooooood brb
<imbrandon> yea i have that theme on ubutnuwire.com ( but its actualy drupal )
<imbrandon> :)
<DktrKranz> if you have a ubuntu.com-like theme in handy, it could be great :)
<sacater> DktrKranz: when i compile the source... it puts the correct files/boot right?
<DktrKranz> what do you mean?
<sacater> DktrKranz: meh forget it, what am i supposed to do with this patch file thing
<DktrKranz> first, untar linux-2.6.20
<DktrKranz> cd in it
<sacater> mmk
<DktrKranz> and run bzcat ../patch-2.6.21-rc7.bz2 | patch -p1
<sacater> i have 2.6.20.7
<DktrKranz> -rc7 is against 2.6.20
<DktrKranz> I think you will have troubles in applying on a 2.6.20.7
<sacater> erm no
<sacater> i meant the .bz2
<sacater> linux-2.6.20.7.tar.bz2
<DktrKranz> tar fjx linux-2.6.20.7.tar.bz2, but I suggest you to take 2.6.20
<sacater> ok
<sacater> let me download it
<sacater> i cant see anything with that number
<sacater> http://kernel.org/
<sacater> which one
<sacater> DktrKranz: dont want to spam motu, can we do this is #sacater
<ScottK> Packaging question??  Does a native package that is Ubuntu only (not in or intended for Debian) get an Ubuntu specific version number?
<geser> afaik you don't need to add ubuntuX to the revision in these cases
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.
<Lin> sorry to ask, but where is /etc/inittab?
<DktrKranz> Lin, upstart does not provide it
<Lin> DktrKranz: do you know the first thing loaded after init()? (i know that everyone here hates short answers)
<LaserJock> ok everybody, behindubuntu.wordpress.com is up
* enyc blinks at LaserJock 
<superm1> you sure: The blog you were looking for, behindubuntu.wordpress.com doesn't exist but you can create it now!
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> behindmotu.wordpress.com
<LaserJock> I got mixed up
<superm1> :)
<bddebian> Damnit, why do I keep getting all the mentor requests?  I'm probably the worst MOTU of the bunch
<geser> which mentor requests?
<crimsun> because you're the most friendly, duh
<superm1> lol
<crimsun> if you're an asswipe like me, no one asks :-)
<crimsun> besides, as part of the motu trinity, you should know that you're going to be accosted for mentoring ;-)
<ScottK> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya ScottK
<ScottK> You are very willing to help people who know less than you, so that's what you get for being nice.
<bddebian> crimsun: You are not an asswipe and it doesn't help if I can't teach them anything :-(
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, I got one too
<bddebian> ScottK: Well very few know less than me :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: I sent an email to motu-council to see if we can get a motu-mentors list of pronto
<ScottK> So you say.
<crimsun> bddebian: you don't need to teach them anything, only show them ways to avoid the monsters with sharp, pointy teeth
<LaserJock> "stay away from crimsun and ajmitch"
<crimsun> O:-)
<LaserJock> "they will eat you alive"
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> bddebian: I'm going for Ubuntu membership tomorrow.  Any chance you can show up and speak for me? 2000UTC.
<bddebian> ScottK: Probably.  Hit me up tomorrow so I remember :-)
<ScottK> Will do.  Thanks.
<pochu> bddebian: would you mind to mentor me? :p
<crimsun> mind the holy hand grenade
<LaserJock> bddebian: would you mentor me? I don't know crap :(
<pochu> LaserJock: lol :) Can you add behindmotu to the planet? It's really interesting
<LaserJock> pochu: no, I'm not adding it to planet
<LaserJock> I'll try to get it onto the fridge and UWN
<pochu> Sounds good too :)
<LaserJock> well, we are trying to not have any non-personal  blogs on planet so I don't want to add to the problem
<pochu> hehe, didn't know it :)
<pochu> So the debaday feed will leave the planet?
<LaserJock> well ...
<pochu> btw, I'm also subscribed to the fridge, and I receive the uwn, so I don't mind ;)
<LaserJock> I don't know that it will, but there were a fair amount of people that didn't really want it there
<LaserJock> debaday isn't on planet debian for that reason
<pochu> At least it's more likely debaweek than debaday ;)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: kind of you
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what is?
<ajmitch> 07:49 < LaserJock> "stay away from crimsun and ajmitch"
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> did I say that? ;-)
<ajmitch> looks like it
* ajmitch is going to go off & cry now
<LaserJock> lol
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks.  I put up a link to that on my family blog (not public) so now my cousins will think I'm all famous and stuff.
<LaserJock> ScottK: glad to be of service ;-)
<ScottK> Some of them are pretty hard core geeks.  There's a non-zero chance it'll get as a recruit.
<ScottK> as/us
* ajmitch wishes he could be as famous as ScottK :)
<ScottK> All it takes is being here on irc when LaserJock asks.  It looks way better than it is, but I am adding it to my wiki page for the CC meeting tomorrow.
<ajmitch> hi ogra 
<ogra> hey hey
<cbx33> ogra, hi
<cbx33> did you get my mail?
<bddebian> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<ogra> i didnt get any mail today i was testing isos the last 24h
<cbx33> ogra, 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> can you do me a big favour
<cbx33> can you get me an ldm login screenshot?
<cbx33> for feisty
<cbx33> for the book chapter?
<ogra> not tonight anymore
<ogra> i'm working since 20h
<ogra> i need sleep
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I still can't get clients to boot here
<ogra> but i can do one tomorrow
<cbx33> please
<cbx33>  hey ajmitch 
<ajmitch> hello cbx33 
<dcsmith> Okay, I'm actually building a package now, but none of the binaries are in it
<dcsmith> the files compile
<dcsmith> but i don't believe that make install is working properly
<dcsmith> I see that make install-exec-am is being called by pbuilder
<dcsmith> which when I run in standalone nothing happens
<dcsmith> however if I run make install it works
<dcsmith> i'm using the rules from debianhelper
<dcsmith> anyone here?
<LaserJock> dcsmith: have you looked at the .deb to see if stuff is getting installed?
<dcsmith> laserjock: i've done a dpkg --contents on the deb and nothing is in the package
<geser> have you checked if it installs in debian/tmp?
<dcsmith> geser: right I think it might be a problem with the make file, I'll pastebin the pbuilder output
<damko> LaserJock: http://behindmotu.wordpress.com/  it's very nice. good job! :-)
<LaserJock> damko: thanks
<ajmitch> he needs to interview more people
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I'm setting up to send out a number of emails
<ajmitch> ah
<LaserJock> I need to do a bunch at one time rather waiting until I remember then asking somebody last minute
<dcsmith> okay so here's the pastebin http://pastebin.ca/443527
<ajmitch> plus it's easier to get responses to put in
<ajmitch> I see there's a request there to interview cbx33 
<cbx33> eh?
<cbx33> there?
<ajmitch> http://behindmotu.wordpress.com/2007/03/24/behind-motu-barry-defreese/#comments
<cbx33> haha
<LaserJock> it seems cbx33 has a stalker/fan
<cbx33> he's my GSoC student ;)
<ajmitch> wonderful ;)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how many stalkers have you collected?
<LaserJock> none that I know of
* ajmitch stalks
<LaserJock> at least none that I would consider stalkers
<dcsmith> anyone have any ideas on the pastebin?
<LaserJock> dcsmith: can you also paste your debian/rules ?
<ajmitch> you may not want to install into debian/tmp if it's a single binary package
<ajmitch> but *maybe* into debian/evolution-remove-duplicates-plugin
<ajmitch> which means changing DESTDIR in the make install line
<dcsmith> http://pastebin.ca/443547
<ajmitch> so line 75 in that file
<dcsmith> Okay, but one question
<dcsmith> in the output of pbuilder it appears that make install does nothing
<dcsmith> because it's calling make install-exec-am instead of make install?
<dcsmith> is that right?
<ajmitch> no, that's fine
<ajmitch> just change what I said
<dcsmith> ajmitch: Okay, thanks for the help
<dcsmith> ajmitch: nope nothing
<dcsmith> ajmitch: wait
<dcsmith> ajmitch: nope the package is still empty
<ajmitch> what do you have in debian/rules now?
<dcsmith>  DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)debian/evolution-remove-duplicates-plugin install
<ajmitch> stick a / between $(CURDIR) & debian
<dcsmith> trying
<dcsmith> again nothing
<dcsmith> are you sure the fact that make install does nothing for the actual binaries is ok?
<ajmitch> as long as make install is calling the right make targets & it installs files, it should work
<dcsmith> /usr/bin/install -c .libs/liborg-gnome-remove-duplicates.so /tmp/buildd/evolution-remove-duplicates-plugin-0.0.2/debian/evolution-remove-duplicates-plugin/usr/lib/evolution/2.10/plugins/liborg-gnome-remove-duplicates.so
<dcsmith> wait
<dcsmith> i was misreading the contents
<ajmitch> oh good
<dcsmith> ajmitch: sorry
<damko> cbx33: what's a GSoC student ?
<cbx33> Google Summer of Code student
<damko> cbx33: thanks
<damko> cbx33: now I got
<cbx33> ;)
<ajmitch> cbx33 is one of these legendary mentors
<dcsmith> it works!!!!!!!!! yes!!!!!!!! Thanks to everyone who helped
<cbx33> ajmitch, HAHAHAH
<damko> u know guys I'm really new in this room .. but I loose my sleep just to stay here and read. very good environment. hopefully I'll learn something
<cbx33> that's funny....
<cbx33> damko, I learnt more here in a year than my entire time 3 years at uni
* ajmitch is just another irc lurker
<damko> cbx33: agree. in 2 days I built my first (personal) deb. package. it's a drop in the sea .. but it's a lot for me
* LaserJock check planet
<LaserJock> \o/
<ajmitch> uh oh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you mean planet mako? :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> try refreshing it
<ajmitch> yeah I saw your post there, don't worry
<LaserJock> I got planet mako a few minutes ago
<LaserJock> but now it seems to be ok
<damko> is pastebin definetely dead ?
<pochu> damko: why?
<pochu> !pastebin | damko
<ubotu> damko: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<jmg> damko: wfmtm
<damko> jmg: Query failure: Can't open file: 'pastebin.MYI'. (errno: 145)
<damko> jmg: thanls
<jmg> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16023/
<pochu> damko: works pretty fine here
<damko> pochu: yes yes I was refering to pastebin.org
<damko> here is not working since friday
<damko> anyway http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org it's ok too
<pochu> oh :)
<pochu> damko: I use paste.ubuntu-nl.org or pastebin.ca
<jmg> pastebin.org works too
<jmg> oh wait no it doesnt
<jmg> its been sniped
#ubuntu-motu 2007-04-17
<shawarma> I get something quite unexpected on pastebin.org.
<pochu> It doesn't exist anymore
<pochu> shawarma: adds? :)
<shawarma> Well, yes. Weird ones.
<shawarma> There's the usual directory to things to vist, but also a picture of skin with spots on it.
<shawarma> Wierd.
<damko> pochu: thanks
<pochu> shawarma: yeah, same here :/
<damko>  /away
<slomo_> shawarma: ping?
<shawarma> slomo_: yes?
<shawarma> slomo_: How can I be of service?
<slomo_> shawarma: iirc you're libmms upstream? i might have a bug for you ;)
<shawarma> slomo_: Yes, I suppose I am.
<slomo_> shawarma: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer0.10/+bug/97686 or http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425948
<ubotu> Malone bug 97686 in gstreamer0.10 "Totem-GStreamer doesn't play CNN Pipeline" [Low,Confirmed]  
<shawarma> slomo_: That's fine. I'll take the patches from the Ubuntu packages at some point.
<shawarma> slomo_: You know the vulnerability that was found in it some time ago?
<shawarma> slomo_: Noone told me. 
<slomo_> nope
<shawarma> slomo_: I was coincidentally browsing the changelog.Debian and found references to CVE's and everything. Noone told me. Since then I've just looked at the distro bugtrackers from time to time and imported patches.
<shawarma> slomo_: I must admit it's very low on my TODO list. Some Swedish guy mentioned he might more or less take it over. Something about the Swedish government paying him to improve the Linux mms situation so that Swedish television can use it for streaming.. Haven't heard much from him in a while though.
<shawarma> Er... I don't know why I'm ranting about this. It just needed to be aired, I guess.
<shawarma> :-)
<slomo_> :)
<shawarma> slomo_: Thanks for letting me know. I won't have time before Feisty, unfortunately.
<slomo_> np, just look at it whenever you want :)
<shawarma> slomo_: Going to UDS, by the way?
<slomo_> nope, too busy with other stuff :/
<shawarma> Schade.
<shawarma> wel..
* shawarma shawarma \rightarrow bed 
<shawarma> doh.. 
<shawarma> If I mess that sort of thing up, i should definitely go to bed.
* shawarma \rightarrow bed 
<shawarma> Much better.
<ajmitch> certainly
<shawarma> Cheers.
<ajmitch> bye
<slomo_> gn8 shawarma :)
<joejaxx> it has been super quiet in here :P
<ajmitch> everyone's working
<joejaxx> :)
<sacater> joejaxx: 4 in the morning local time.... so what would you expect :P
<sacater> ajmitch: heh, just saw your and crimsums name on banshee update :P
<sacater> names*
<ajmitch> sorry?
<sacater> na
<sacater> thats good :D
<ajmitch> ok, why mention it?
<sacater> meh
<sacater> :P
<sacater> there is still a lot of network trouble out there :( expecially wireless
<sacater> 2 questions about it already today :'(
* ajmitch must be one of the lucky ones then who never has trouble
<sacater> yeah
<sacater> some guy wants to have gftp with 'cut copy and paste'
<sacater> https://answers.launchpad.net/gftp/+ticket/5119
<ajmitch> it's not that bad a suggestion
<ajmitch> though I'd rather use nautilus as an ftp client
<sacater> thunar here :P
<sacater> i left him an answer
<sacater> does anyone here run dual-display?
<ajmitch> yes
<dholbach> good morning
<sacater> dholbach: mornin
<dholbach> hey sacater
<sacater> ajmitch: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+ticket/5121
<sacater> might be worth a look
<ajmitch> sure, but configuration is different for different devices
* ajmitch has dual-head nvidia (twinview), which is different to anything else
<sacater> oh poop
* ScottK has a desktop and a laptop sitting next to it ;-)
<sacater> dosnt count :P
<StevenK> What about ScottK's setup with x2x?
* sacater shrugs his shoulders in a 'i dunno' fashion
<sacater> :P
<ScottK> Of course sometimes I set the laptop on the floor and one of the dogs steps on the keyboard and then anything could happen...
* StevenK ponders rejecting a unmetdeps bug saying "This will be fixed automatically when the Debian import for Gutsy happens."
<sacater> imbrandon: sorry, the council meeting is 9pm london time, 20:00 UTC otherwise
<\sh> moins
<ScottK> StevenK: I'd suggest it's better to confirm them and then fix released them after the sync window opens.
<imbrandon> sacater, ok, thats like ummm 3pm localtime or so
<StevenK> /tmp/buildd/ppmd-9.1/ppmd e read_me.out
<StevenK> Ooops
<StevenK> Hrm. What about unmetdeps that can't be fixed, like an arch-indep package depending on an arch-dep one.
* RAOF is not entirely sure why that can't be fixed.
<StevenK> RAOF: bootcd-ia64 is Arch: all, and depends on elilo, which is ia64 only
<RAOF> Aaah.  Does it make any sense to use it on anything else?
<StevenK> Not really.
<RAOF> Then it's not really a problem, is it?  If you really wanted to, you could "fix" it by just making bootcd-ia64 arch dep
* RAOF wonders about writing a GTK texmacs frontend.
<imbrandon> StevenK, why  not just make it ia64 only instead of all
<StevenK> I'd rather not make that call.
<StevenK> The Debian maintainer has a reason, I suspect.
<tepsipakki> I've never been to UDS, how should I plan the budget for the week? It still is unlikely I could make it there, though
<ajmitch> sponsored?
<tepsipakki> not a chance anymore
<ajmitch> since canonical have supplied some meals (breakfast, lunch, sometimes dinner) in the past
<ajmitch> ah :(
<ajmitch> then there's the large amount of money to spend on alcohol
<tepsipakki> heh, granted
<ajmitch> if you stay at the same hotel, that cuts down on taxi costs
<ajmitch> so mostly food, accomodation, etc
* ajmitch has to find out how to get to the hotel from the airport
<ajmitch> since I speak no spanish ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: are you member of motu-uvf? ;) if so, please approve UVF exception on wine 0.9.35...just because of the time
<ajmitch> gah
<tepsipakki> accommodation would be provided even without being officially sponsored?
<ajmitch> tepsipakki: no
<tepsipakki> thought so
<ajmitch> \sh: LP is dead, so no :P
<\sh> ajmitch: I just saw :(
<tepsipakki> that would make it more like 1kEUR for the week.. hmm, need to pass this time :/
<ajmitch> tepsipakki: yeah it gets expensive quickly
<tepsipakki> too bad the wiki-page never got any updates
<ajmitch> they did say that they weren't taking sponsorship requests by wiki this time
<tepsipakki> where was that?
* ajmitch can't recall whether it was on the wiki or the UDS announcement
<ajmitch> but people used it as a sponsorship request anyway
<tepsipakki> it wasn't mentioned on neither of those
<tepsipakki> s/n//
<tepsipakki> er
<imbrandon> its in the email
<ajmitch> can anyone get to the hotel website?
<tepsipakki> imbrandon: what email?
<ajmitch> ah, it's there now
<imbrandon> the announcement
<ajmitch> gave me 500 internal error
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<imbrandon> ajmitch, must be hosted on windows with aspx :)
<tepsipakki> imbrandon: no it's not :)
<ajmitch> apache on windows
<imbrandon> tepsipakki, gah, one sec i'll dig it out
<imbrandon> hrm what was the date
<imbrandon> of the announcement >?
<tepsipakki> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2007-February/000097.html
<imbrandon> no the actual announcement, not "upcomming events"
<imbrandon> anyhow it says at the bottom of the wiki also that the details for sponsorship arent the wiki
<tepsipakki> no it doesn't
<imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Sevilla
<imbrandon> sure does
<imbrandon> i'm there now
<tepsipakki> "There will be limited sponsorship from Canonical to allow community members to attend the UDS, but the specifics of this sponsorship are currently being discussed and more information will be available soon."
<highvoltage> imbrandon: are you going to Sevilla?
<imbrandon> highvoltage, not this time
<ajmitch> highvoltage: you are, I presume?
<highvoltage> ajmitch: if I can get my visa sorted in time *gulp*
<ajmitch> uh oh
<ajmitch> you're planning to be there for all of UES & UDS?
<highvoltage> yes
<highvoltage> I'm taking 3 hops to get there, so I'm leaving the 30'th already
<highvoltage> going to try to get that visa sorted out today
<tepsipakki> imbrandon: do you see that text in the page?
<ajmitch> only 3 hops?
* ajmitch flies dunedin->auckland->HK->heathrow->madrid->sevilla
* highvoltage flies from cape town -> johannesburg -> madrid -> sevilla
<ajmitch> not bad
<ajmitch> johannesburg->madrid will be long
<highvoltage> will probably be around 10 hours
<ajmitch> hm
<highvoltage> cape town to jo'burg is about 2 hours
* ajmitch has 29 hours in total, each way
<highvoltage> OUCH
<ajmitch> yeah, the one bad thing about being in NZ
* highvoltage doesn't feel so bad about his flight times then
<highvoltage> only bad thing is, I'm missing the local CokeFest (http://5fm.co.za/events/eventsdetails.aspx?id=7281) and will now have to miss it :/
<highvoltage> (guns & roses, staind, evanescence, 3 doors down... etc)
<shawarma> CokeFest?
<shawarma> Interesting name.
<highvoltage> way too overcommercialised :)
<shawarma> Is that the actual name of the event?
<highvoltage> shawarma: yep. see the link I posted.
<ajmitch> highvoltage: but you get to be around wonderful people like us!
<shawarma> I clicked it when you posted it. it's not done loading yet. :-)
<highvoltage> ajmitch: indeed :)
<shawarma> I've got the title, but still a blank page.
<ajmitch> shawarma: internet in .za :)
<highvoltage> hehe
<shawarma> ajmitch: Indeed. I'm imagining rusty barb wire or something.
<ajmitch> probably about 10Mbps total international traffic for the whole country ;)
* ajmitch is still waiting
<imbrandon> cable for the whole country :)
<ajmitch> for NZ, we have wet string & rusty tin cans
<highvoltage> (if even that much)
<shawarma> I wonder what sort of bandwidth you could actually squeeze through rusty barb wire...
<ajmitch> probably quite a bit over a short distance
<shawarma> Yay! Here we go!
<ajmitch> if you have tx/rx pairs a decent distance apart to prevent crosstalk
<shawarma> Nice. Dark (very!) gray on black background.
<ajmitch> very readable :)
<highvoltage> shawarma: the white background image is probably still loading :)
<shawarma> highvoltage: Ah. 
<shawarma> Ah, yes, there it comes.
<shawarma> Oh, "Coke" as in "Coca Cola". Yes, that makes more sense.
<shawarma> ...given it's an official name.
<highvoltage> shawarma: haha!
<Hobbsee> dholbach: are you sure you got those names right, for the inactive MOTUs?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: why?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: Nafallo's active.  he's here, for a start
<Hobbsee> (bottom of your list)
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I know, I just pinged him about it again - he seems to have missed the mail
<Hobbsee> ahh
<dholbach> Hobbsee: he did an upload a week after gauvain mailed him
<Hobbsee> ahh
<ajmitch> do I count as an inactive motu?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no.  but keep uploading
* ajmitch probably hasn't touched ubuntu for as long as some of those people
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> i did an upload yesterday!
<Lathiat> ;)
<ajmitch> yay!
<Lathiat> first in far too long!
<Lathiat> well actually i didnt technically upload it
<Lathiat> but i prepared it ;p
<Lathiat> cant upload to -security :)
<ajmitch> cacti?
<Lathiat> at least not afaik
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> had 3 boxes hacked by that stupid old package in dapper ;p
<Lathiat> figured it was time to do something about it
<dholbach> and trust me: it wasn't easy to decide on a list of people we wrote to
<Lathiat> http://www.overclockers.com.au/pic.php?pic=images/timeline.png
<dholbach> but what's more important: it will be easy to re-apply and join back in
<lucas> which list are you talking about ?
<dholbach> lucas: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-April/000083.html
<Hobbsee> dholbach: didnt think it would be
<lucas> erm was that list announced on ubuntu-motu@ ? :-)
<ajmitch> lucas: should it be?
<dholbach> lucas: no, and that was for a reason
<dholbach> lucas: everybody should have the chance to say privately what his/her reasons are for for not being active in the group - this might be personal and not appropriate for a public mailing list
<lucas> sorry, I meant: was that *mailing list* announced on ubuntu-motu@ ?
<lucas> I wasn't aware of it
<dholbach> ah ok, yes it was
<lucas> ah, looks like I missed it
<dholbach> after the release, I'll try to check the MOTU wiki pages and make sure it's referenced more prominently, if it's not enough already
<dholbach> (among other things :))
<\sh> who is inactive? 
* \sh is ,)
* ajmitch is
<ajmitch> dholbach: how happy are you with wine 0.9.35?
<ajmitch> it's a big change to have hit a couple of days before release
<ajmitch> looks like it has +1 from both crimsun & siretart though
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, but it's wine...
<dholbach> ajmitch: if they both said 'ok', then it's 'ok', no? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: see comment from siretart (and crimsun)...for gutsy gibbon we have to try to have a different way for wine
<dholbach> and more bug forwarding ;-)
<siretart> dholbach: in effect, crimsum and I agreed that we should for this special case trust \sh and scott's assesment of the package, since they both worked hard on having it fit for feisty
<siretart> dholbach: on a side note, I'm not too happy how wine is handeled in ubuntu. we should have a session in sevilla about wine discussing the issues
<\sh> dholbach: many bugs are not distro specific...and we won't get any support from upstream with our stacktraces
<dholbach> siretart: we have other packages which are well maintained and had comments from upstream authors too
<dholbach> \sh: sure most stuff is not distro specific
<\sh> dholbach: just because it's not because of wine, but the work between wine + windows apps
* ajmitch doesn't want to find out 2 days after release that 0.9.35 was a bad snapshot
<dholbach> \sh: I don't understand what you're trying to say
<\sh> ajmitch: http://archive.linux-server.org ;)
* siretart is for removing wine from feisty, FYIW
<siretart> ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: that's no use for me
<ajmitch> I have amd64, I don't use wine
<\sh> dholbach: the traces of apport don't fullfill the needs of upstream 
<dholbach> \sh: are you sure about that?
<ajmitch> wine needs *loads* of debug options
<\sh> dholbach: talked with pitti about it, and the results of retrace are no use
<ajmitch> not just a simple stacktrace
<dholbach> hm
<ajmitch> you need to run wine with the right +debug magic
<dholbach> maybe we should get going and have a DebuggingWine page
<dholbach> that upstream can help us with
<\sh> dholbach: you have three different problems with wine: 1. wine loads elf libs, 2. wine loads elf-fified dlls and 3. wine loads windows dlls ,-)
<ajmitch> 4. wine runs proprietary code :)
<dholbach> i'm happy with their release cycle (quick to do updates), but I'm not happy about having no idea which of our bugs gets adressed and which not
<\sh> ajmitch: that's a problem of the maintainer not having the money to buy strange commercial software ,->
<dholbach> it's always a game where we might have luck or have not
<ajmitch> dholbach: their release cycle is to roll a snapshot every 2 weeks
<ajmitch> no matter if there are regressions
<dholbach> we need to find out how we can get more information for them and track our bugs
<\sh> correct
<dholbach> "buy commercial software" can't be the only solution
<ajmitch> I think we'd have heard the cries from upstream that 0.9.35 is bad by now (I hope)
<ajmitch> so we'll approve 0.9.35 for now, and argue about something better around UDS? :)
<dholbach> \sh: could you ask upstream to help us with writing a DebuggingWine so we can refer people to that in bug reports and better track the bugs we receive?
<\sh> dholbach: will do...I'll talk with scott as well about it.
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> http://kegel.com/wine/qa/
* ajmitch sees 1 thread on wine-devel about ubuntu 0.9.35 packages being broken
<dholbach> http://wiki.winehq.org/FrontPage?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=debug
<ajmitch> is that the xrender patch?
<dholbach> also http://www.winehq.org/site/contributing
<ajmitch> & you have wine build-depending on libxrender-dev ?
<dholbach> so there's enough information we can refine in a DebuggingWine page
<\sh> ajmitch: there is no 0.9.35 package in ubuntu right now
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> scott's packages
<\sh> ajmitch: so they think about scotts
<\sh> ajmitch: scott hasn't have the patch in his package..
<ajmitch> so you have the patch, and b-d on libxrender-dev?
* ajmitch wonders if it's better suited for feisty-backports at this late late stage
<dholbach> that smells like -backports material - i don't think we can seriously test that
<ajmitch> good to see dholbach thinks as I do :)
<highvoltage> anyone happen to know where software-properties-gtk gets its sources from?
<dholbach> highvoltage: /etc/apt/sources.list?
<dholbach> or what do you mean?
<zorglu_> q. with the new cnr stuff, how cnr knows the structure of the package ? will it parse the existing .deb/.rpm ? or a new package format is required ?
<\sh> ajmitch: they are complaining about xrandr
* zorglu_ is not sure it is the proper place to ask basics about cnr
<zorglu_> please suggest a better place if there is on
<zorglu_> e
<highvoltage> dholbach: well, it knows about the ubuntu sources even if there's no /etc/apt/sources.list file
<highvoltage> dholbach: I'd like to replace them with other 'default' sources
<dholbach> highvoltage: best to ask mvo
<highvoltage> dholbach: thanks, will do
<dholbach> np
<\sh> ajmitch: and 0.9.35 from me is working...(read the notepad test ;))
<\sh> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.emulators.wine.devel/50338
<ajmitch> yeah I can't rely on just notepad
<\sh> ajmitch: you can't rely on wine, that's more the point...agreed with siretart to remove wine from ubuntu completly
<ajmitch> & make lots of users unhappy :)
<imbrandon> what !?!
<\sh> ajmitch: but makes live easier ,-)
<\sh> actually it's sabdfls fault ,->
<dholbach> ???
<imbrandon> ??
<imbrandon> wine is not getting removed is it ?
<imbrandon> wtf
<\sh> sabdfl wanted to have for breezy the packages from winehq ,->
* ajmitch points an accusing finger in sabdfl's direction
<zorglu_> ok it wasnt the proper place to ask about cnr :)
<dholbach> \sh: oh man
<ajmitch> imbrandon: don't jump to conclusions yet ;)
* \sh is a bit ironic...don't take it serious, pretty pls
<imbrandon> heh sorry just got back to the keyboard
<\sh> anyways...when you are sitting in sevilla..talk about wine...
<\sh> and I try to convince scott to become a motu
<siretart> imbrandon: no. removing wine in favor to a dedicated PPA was my idea. it is my preference to remove it already from feisty, based on the information that the current version in broken, and a proposed new upstream fixes many and breaks other things
<siretart> imbrandon: nothing is decided yet and we are all pretty unsure on how to proceed. at least I am
<siretart> \sh: I feel uneasy to convince ppl to do something. IME they tend to do the job as long as you push them, but no longer
<dholbach> I don't feel that's a good way to 'maintain' a package :-/
<ajmitch> siretart: I don;t know about the package breaking many other things
<siretart> ajmitch: oh, that's what I understood from your lines above regarding libxrender
<siretart> feel free to correct me
<\sh> siretart: well he is preparing the packages for winehq (dapper, edgy) .. and I'm doing the packages for feisty...and I am using changes from scott and scott is using changes from me
<ajmitch> siretart: from what I can tell, \sh has fixed that problem
<siretart> cool
<\sh> ajmitch: but it hasn't anything to do with libxrender-dev because wine never build against it
<\sh> the patch fixed the cursor stuff...it was know already for 0.9.34 but was never fixed for 0.9.35
<\sh> I took the patch 
<\sh> scott not
* RAOF should really get around to adding a proper wine32 package for us x86-64 users sometime.
<\sh> RAOF: please don't ...it will introduce more trouble 
<RAOF> You mean, in that x86-64 users will actually use wine? :)
<\sh> RAOF: read the bug reports from wine in LP
<\sh> lucnhtime...bbl
<RAOF> I seem to remember someone suggesting a tutorial in how to read an apport backtrace at some point.  I could do with one :)
<gnomefreak> RAOF: i read firefox ones but not sure ho wto explain it. i look for first real line than the first line aftter main
<jekil2> hello
<danirus> Hi raphink
<raphink> hi danirus
<danirus> still therere problems with REVY
<danirus> excuse me, I'd say, if there're still problems with REVU
<danirus> does anybody know why svn_load_dirs script doesn't come with subversion-tools in feisty?
<danirus> the situation is that svn-inject (from svn-buildpackage) fails because this script svn_load_dirs (from subversion-tools) is not installed
<DarkSun88> Hi
<ScottK> Hello
<\sh> re
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> Didn't I upload something for DarkSun88 today...
* StevenK tries to remember where he saw that
<DarkSun88> StevenK: Don't worry.
<StevenK> Oh that's it. twig
<DarkSun88> StevenK: There is only Nagat in my archive for upload
<DarkSun88> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nagat/+bug/93938
<ubotu> Malone bug 93938 in nagat "[UNMETDEPS]  nagat has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<StevenK> Hrm, maybe I'm confusing you with someone else.
<DarkSun88> :D
<StevenK> I'm not.
<StevenK> DarkSun88: bug 96325
<ubotu> Malone bug 96325 in twig "[UNMETDEPS]  twig has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96325
<DarkSun88> Yes, I'm Michele Angrisano
<zul>  /join #ubuntu-meeting
<zul> oops
<StevenK> DarkSun88: Yes, and I uploaded something for you. So there. :-)
<DarkSun88> Thank you :)
<\sh> ajmitch / siretart / dholbach: so any clue what to do with wine 0.9.35 ... postpone for feisty+1? 
<dholbach> yes, I'd prefer that - and maybe get it into -backports
<\sh> dholbach: k...so we ship wine without scim support and a broken arts stuff in winecfg...
<\sh> s/without/broken/ scim support better to say
<dholbach> ok, better let me add my reservations to the bug report
* proppy hugs dholbach
<\sh> dholbach: what do you think about feisty-updates for wine? imho for the user a better solution, just because many of them are not using backports
<dholbach> did you read about the SRU procedure?
<\sh> dholbach: the changed ones not, the old ones yes.
<dholbach> both procedures are and were for very isolated issues
<dholbach> with readable and understandable patches
<dholbach> 0.9.33 -> 0.9.35 would not be appropriate for that, I feel
<ScottK> If users aren't using backports, we shouldn't make that choice for them...
<dholbach> right
<sword__> hi
<danirus> Hi raphink, could you help me with the package tclodbc?
<danirus> Hi ajmitch, siretart, sistpoty, I've uploaded a package to REVU, but I didn't receive any confirmation email.
<siretart> danirus: revu doesn't send confirmation mails. where did you hear about that?
<danirus> I was talking with raphink about this
<danirus> last friday
<danirus> I sent a package and he was checking something
<siretart> well, mails are sent to a mailing list, but not to the submitter directly
<danirus> I am subscribed to motu-reviewers, but I haven't got nothing there
<zul> did you upload it to the right place?
<danirus> I think so, I did before, raphink was checking it, he makes some suggestions, and yesterday I uploaded it again, it's the tclodbc package.
<raphink> siretart:that's the problem I was trying to tel lyo uabout 
<raphink> some packages don't show up on the interface
<raphink> it's the case of tclodbc and ardour2 for ex
<raphink> ah well no
<raphink> ardour2 is archived I was told
<raphink> ;)
<danirus> raphink, siretart, it looks like you are working on a problem around revu, I don't want to disturb you
<danirus> If I can help you in some way, let me know
<siretart> raphink: I'll return tonight at home, I'll see that I can look into it tomorrow
<siretart> raphink: could you do any diagnostics? any idea whats wrong?
<raphink> no 
<raphink> I'm sorry I'm overwhelmed with work right now
<raphink> I have 30 minutes to finish debugging something and run to the airpot
<siretart> danirus: well, we really need some kind of garbage collecting in revu badly. someone (most probably sistpoty or me) has to implement it
<siretart> raphink: same here :/
<siretart> (work, not airport)
<danirus> Ok, thanks, I will try again in few days
<raphink> well your package is on REVU danirus 
<raphink> taht's for sure
<raphink> the problem is that it doesn't register in the database
<danirus> So I don't have to send it again, isn't?
<raphink> no you don't have to
<raphink> that's why I was able to review your package last time danirus
<raphink> it IS on tiber
<danirus> Ok, i'm taking your time, thanks for your help
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<Nafallo> I'
<Nafallo> I'm as active as I can be with broken hardware :-P
<\sh> dholbach: I rejected the bug now completly. 
<dholbach> ok
<\sh> dholbach: there came an Idea during a meeting now...what about including wine in our third party packages. so winehq can provide some packages for the development versions as well..
<dholbach> what do you mean by 'our third party packages'?
<\sh> dholbach: winehq has apt archives for their packages...when we put them into a special "third party" apt sources.list.d 
<\sh> like the commercial package archives..
<dholbach> they already do that - what do you think WE should do?
<\sh> the packages would be then external, not supported by motu / ubuntu and they can triage errors for wine much better then we can do
<dholbach> hrm
<\sh> but the user can install wine easier when we provide the apt sources.list
<dholbach> we can't ship sources.list that point to stuff other people do
<dholbach> we just can't do that
<dholbach> and I think we should try to maintain packages
<dholbach> it works for lots of other cases quite well
<azeem> where "we" could also be "people from winehq", if they wanted, no?
<dholbach> azeem: what do you mean? :)
<\sh> azeem: there is just one guy who is doing packages for ubuntu (released versions)
<\sh> azeem: at winehq
<\sh> I'll just write an email to wine upstream and ask them how we can improve better debugging
<\sh> for ubuntu to help them bughunting
<azeem> dholbach: that this guy from winehq should become a MOTU
<\sh> azeem: we had scott already for motu...but he didn't had the time during breezy times :)
<dholbach> azeem: yeah, that's a good idea
<\sh> azeem: but it would be a good idea :)
* ScottK is is done spamming the motu list with revu uploads for a while.
<\sh> anyone interested in taking over wine? ,-)
* ScottK runs and runs fast.
<\sh> bugs about winetool...oh wow..winetool is even unsupported at winehq :(
<\sh> Note: WineTools only recommended if installation or operability of Windows software failed on pure Wine. Since WineTools radically alters your Wine configuration please do not report bugs in programs with WineTools installed. Instead contact the author of WineTools Joachim von Thadden. 
<\sh> rejected
<highvoltage> \sh: wow, I didn't know that
<ScottK> \sh: You can file that with the Automatix bugs.
<\sh> ScottK: wtf is automatix?
<ScottK> \sh: Sorry.  It's a similar sort of disaster for Ubuntu.  They install a bunch of stuff in non-standard ways and then are suprised when stuff doesn't work.
<\sh> this script which pimps my ubuntu install to the maximum and reduce the work of upgrading it to the next release? means newinstall ? ,->
<ScottK> Yeah.  Something like that.
<Nafallo> do they still replace sources.list with one hardcoded to a.u.c? :-)
<ScottK> Dunno.  I stay away.
<\sh> highvoltage: well, there are many things in wine which are a secret ,-)
<Nafallo> I read the source once...
<Nafallo> zenity :-P
<jdong> automatix?
<\sh> I'll start an ubuntu-wine team
<Nafallo> jdong: automatix!
<jdong> but it's being replaced by a closed-source Python version ;-)
<Nafallo> OUCH!
<ScottK> jdong: Nevermind.  I should have never brought it up.
<jdong> haha
<jdong> let's all go back to happyland?
<Nafallo> jdong: NO! motuland :-)
<jdong> but MOTUland is happy ;-)
<Nafallo> yea :-)
<\sh> how do I register a team?
<Nafallo> \sh: you should know. you regged motu-im ;-)
<pochu> \sh: https://launchpad.net/people/+newteam :)
* jdong gives bug 95258 a funny look....
<ubotu> Malone bug 95258 in xorg "Ctrl-Alt-Backspace should request confirmation before killing Xorg" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95258
<jdong> bug 95259
<ubotu> Malone bug 95259 in xserver-xgl "Ctrl-Alt-Backspace should request confirmation before killing Xgl" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95259
<jdong> oh look. he was nice enough to file one for Xgl too
<jdong> even with the wrong zap hotkey for Xgl
<\sh> Nafallo: right ;)
<proppy> dholbach: the link to mailing list on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnomemm seems obsolete
<proppy> dholbach: This mailing-list is dead. Please use gtkmm-list@gnome.org instead.
<dholbach> thanks proppy
<dholbach> changed
<dholbach> proppy: and thanks for joining in on the fun :)
<proppy> dholbach: i'm always in the mood for fun :)
<dholbach> hehe :)
<dholbach> rock on
<proppy> dholbach: nice trace 
<proppy> dholbach: http://librarian.launchpad.net/7339827/gdb.txt
<proppy> 7339827
<proppy> bug #7339827
<proppy> bug #105848
<ubotu> Malone bug 105848 in nemiver "Nemiver crash on debug" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105848
<dholbach> proppy: it was nice to talk to Dodji on #c++ on irc.gnome.org
<dholbach> proppy: would you know how to get a trace for that?
<dholbach> proppy: with a good crash file attached it's quite easy: apport-unpack bla.crash temp; gdb <binary> temp/CoreDump; ... (gdb) set logging on  (gdb) thread apply all bt full   and you're done :)
<dholbach> oops
<proppy> dholbach: sorry got disconnected
<proppy> dholbach: what did you said ?
<proppy> !log dholbach
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about log dholbach - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<dholbach> proppy: with a good crash file attached it's quite easy: apport-unpack bla.crash temp; gdb <binary> temp/CoreDump; ... (gdb) set logging on  (gdb) thread apply all bt full   and you're done :)
<dholbach> I dunno why the automatic retracer didn't like the trace
<dholbach> but it was easy enough to do it
<dholbach> apport and friends kick ass :)
<proppy> can you backlog me what you said before i disconnect ?
<pochu> * proppy has quit (Remote closed the connection)
<pochu> <dholbach> proppy: with a good crash file attached it's quite easy: apport-unpack bla.crash temp; gdb <binary> temp/CoreDump; ... (gdb) set logging on  (gdb) thread apply all bt full   and you're done :)
<pochu> <dholbach> oops
<pochu> * proppy (n=proppy@free.mekensleep.com) has joined #ubuntu-motu
<pochu> :)
<proppy`> dholbach: proppy@proppy-desktop:~$ sudo apport-retrace -s 105848
<proppy`> report file does not contain required fields: CoreDump Package ExecutablePath
<proppy`> p
<proppy`> 105848
<proppy`> bug #105848
<ubotu> Malone bug 105848 in nemiver "Nemiver crash on debug" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105848
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> I dunno why it has no 'package' entry
<dholbach> that's why I retraced it 'manually'
<dholbach> sudo apt-get install nemiver-dbgsym libglibmm2.4-1c2a-dbgsym libgtkmm2.4-1c2a-dbgsym; apport-unpack bla.crash temp; gdb /usr/bin/nemiver temp/CoreDump ......
<proppy`> in feisty ?
<dholbach> yes
<proppy> deboostraping
<proppy`> root@proppy-desktop:/# apt-get install nemiver-dbgsym libglibmm2.4-1c2a-dbgsym libgtkmm2.4-1c2a-dbgsym
<proppy`> Reading package lists... Done
<proppy`> Building dependency tree       
<proppy`> Reading state information... Done
<proppy`> E: Couldn't find package nemiver-dbgsym
<crimsun> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs/pool/universe/n/nemiver/
<crimsun> (for feisty)
<proppy`> universe i guess
<proppy`> dholbach: are dbgsym in a separate repository from universe ?
<dholbach> proppy: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<proppy`> oh ok
<proppy`> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs/pool/universe/n/nemiver/
<marseillai> hi. i'm starting to package smplayer http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=54487 and i would like to learn CDBS (i've already make a package with debhelper) and i would like to know if someone have time to help me ?
<proppy`> invoke-rc.d: initscript dbus, action "start" failed.
<proppy`> installation of dbus failed
<proppy`> so gnome-vfs
<proppy`> so nemiver
<proppy`> i guess dbus doesn't like beeing in a chroot
<proppy`> mounting proc help a lot :)
<geser> is it still possible to upload fixes? I've fix for bug #104711
<ubotu> Malone bug 104711 in bzr-gtk "[apport]  olive-gtk crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104711
<proppy`> root@proppy-desktop:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# apt-get install libglibmm2.4-1c2a-dbgsym libgtkmm2.4-1c2a-dbgsym
<proppy`> Reading package lists... Done
<proppy`> Building dependency tree       
<proppy`> Reading state information... Done
<proppy`> E: Couldn't find package libglibmm2.4-1c2a-dbgsym
<crimsun> geser: approved, go ahead.
<proppy`> typo
<geser> crimsun: thanks, uploaded.
<wondering> When is this bug going to be fixed? I *still* see it in Feisty! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-kde/+bug/64695
<ubotu> Malone bug 64695 in meta-kde "KDE logout dialog is missing shutdown and restart options" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<crimsun> wondering: it's too late for feisty.
<wondering> crimsun: Why has that bug been around for so long in the first place?
<crimsun> wondering: you should be asking in kubuntu-devel, not in here.
<proppy`> dholbach: you forget to tell me about apport-chroot 
<wondering> crimsun: Okay, thanks.
<proppy`> dholbach: i correctly reproduced the traceback
<proppy`> dholbach: thanks for the pointer :)
<proppy`> dholbach: can i attach the bazaar versionned chroot to launchpad, to share with the team ?
<proppy`> dholbach: or is it useless 
<tsmithe> i've just emailed innotek to see whether they could open the debian package sources, so that i could get a virtualbox package into ubuntu 7.10.
<tsmithe> (just fyi ;) )
<crimsun> thanks.
<shawarma> tsmithe: afaik they're already working with some Debian people on getting official packages done.
<sacater> anyone else here willing to vouch for me in #ubuntu-meeting later :|
<crimsun> sacater: people who have worked with you may
<sacater> goood
<ScottK> tsmithe: Do you use Ubuntu or Kubuntu?
<tsmithe> ubuntu...
<ScottK> OK..  Got a sound bug for you.  brb.
<crimsun> all yours, tsmithe!
<crimsun> (YES!)
<tsmithe> shawarma, that sounds good
<tsmithe> crimsun, sure
<tsmithe> :S
<tsmithe> although... :P
<ScottK> tsmithe: Bug #106588 - It's at least in part a packaging/dependency thing, but I think it's not the whole story.
<ubotu> Malone bug 106588 in evolution "Evolution missing dependency causes hang on startup (Kubuntu Feisty)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/106588
<tsmithe> shawarma, do you know where i could contact these people
<shawarma> tsmithe: otoh, I may be mistaken: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=406992  <-- The bug seems dormant since end of January. Maybe the Debian guys just need a quick poke with Hobbsee lpsoD!!!
<ubotu> Debian bug 406992 in wnpp "ITP: VirtualBox -- x86 virtualization solution" [Unknown,Open]  
<tsmithe> ScottK, evo?
<ScottK> Yep.  It hangs without esd.
<tsmithe> ah ok
<ScottK> Not sure which package the missing dependency is in
<shawarma> tsmithe: Just a sec.
<ScottK> But even if you get that installed, something else is still up.
<crimsun> please ask for an strace -fF
<tsmithe> i'm just going out for a couple of hours, but will take a look when i get back. i'll wait for shawarma's response
<shawarma> If I had a nickle for every time alioth told me that it couldn't find its database.. 
<tsmithe> crimsun, will do
<crimsun> we can't tell if it's blocking on esound or the driver itself (possibly via arts?)
<tsmithe> yeap
<tsmithe> if only i had an f key :P
<shawarma> tsmithe: You can try daniel@debian.org. He seems to be the owner of the ITP.
<tsmithe> excellent
* tsmithe frantically opens tomboy before rushing out
<LaserJock> geser: ping
<geser> LaserJock: pong
<unix_infidel> how do we not have an rc in the mirrors but we have supposedly released the final release to journalists etc?
<Nafallo> unix_infidel: what did you just say? :-)
<ogra> there is surely nothing released yet
<ScottK> All that's been released is a press release.
<ogra> to any journalists...
<unix_infidel> Nafallo: iirc there was a scheduled release to journalists and other specified parties on the release scheudle wiki.
<ScottK> AFAIK
<unix_infidel> right, but how is there a proper press release out there but not an rc for the community :P
<ogra> hmm, nobody told me ... and i write the edubuntu release notes ...
<ogra> we will have the final release as scheduled on the 19th
<unix_infidel> :(
<ScottK> It's not exactly hidden: http://www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntudesktop704
<ogra> "announce the availability of Ubuntu 7.04 Desktop Edition on April 19."
<ogra> so whats wrong with that ? 
<Nafallo> I don't understand either :-)
* ogra somehow doesnt understand unix_infidel's prob 
<marseillai> hi. i'm trying to package smplayer http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=54487 with debhelper and there's no configure.in file... only a Makefile ... how can i do to find build-depends and is there some thing particular to know about this sort of packages ?
<ScottK> marseillai: Sometimes the upstream README file will tell you what you need.  You just need to find the corresponding Debian/Ubuntu package names.
<marseillai> ScottK: oki and the fact that there's no configure.in and else doesn't change anything for me ?
* ScottK can't help you there.  Sorry.
<jussi01> hello again motu's
<jussi01> could someone please have a look at these errors and tell me if its my fault or the devs and if/how it can be fixed?
<jussi01> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16154/
<ogra> you are missing the sndfile header
<jussi01> ogra, ok, how do i get/fix that?
<bddebian> jussi01: Missing a build-dep for sndfile?
<bddebian> Or whatever package sndfile is in
<Adri2000> you need libsndfile1-dev, see apt-file search sndfile.h
<bddebian> lib.. doh Adri2000 beat me to it
<jussi01> ahh, thank you very much
<jussi01> thanks again motu's, it works :D
<bddebian> w00t
<ScottK> ?
<bddebian> ScottK: I was saying w00t for jussi01 :))
<ScottK> Ah.  Thought maybe you were ready to upload my first package for gutsy ;-)
<bddebian> Is it open? :)
<ScottK> No.  Just kidding
<bddebian> Actually I'm pretty much out of commish until early/mid July :'(
<ScottK> You OK?
* ScottK worries
<bddebian> No, no, just massive work schedule
<ScottK> Ahh.  OK.  That I can live with.
<ScottK> ;_)
<ScottK> or rather :-)
<sacater> LaserJock: #ubuntu-meeting please mate, 1 hour to go i know, but i like being prepared
<LaserJock> sacater: what about it?
<sacater> membership..
<sacater> you said you would say a good word or w
<sacater> 2*
<LaserJock> k, I should be there
<Nafallo> what kind of meeting? :-)
<Nafallo> CC?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Nafallo> kewl
<tsmithe> ah where was i?
<tsmithe> bug 106588
<tsmithe> damn ubotu ignores me...
* tsmithe does it manually
<tsmithe> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/106588
<tsmithe> thank you tsmithe
<tsmithe> hmm
* tsmithe looks up "un pote"
<dholbach> proppy`: doesn't make sense for the bug - it's probably resolved upstream already
<ScottK> tsmithe: What did you find?
<tsmithe> ScottK, not much yet :)
<Adri2000> ahaha :)
<lionel> for "un pote" ?
<tsmithe> family are distracting me
<tsmithe> oh i thought you meant the bug :P
<ScottK> Yeah.  I meant the French.
<tsmithe> "un pote" == a mate/pal/buddy etc
<ScottK> Ah. It's been since longer than you've been alive that I"ve taken French, so it's a little rusty.  Thanks.
<tsmithe> hehe :D
<ScottK> tsmithe: About the bug, I thought you'd enjoy it.  I use Kmail and Kubuntu, so it's no matter to me either way.
<tsmithe> hehe :)
* tsmithe wonders whether removing esound would break gnome, but assumes it doesn't, turning it off in the control centre
<tsmithe> i really should find out what that option actually changes
<Q-FUNK> tsmithe: piulse audio offers an esd emulator, if needed
<tsmithe> yes. i don't use esd generally, so i should be ok :)
<lucy2007> # Appears as ANNA.
<crimsun> tsmithe: removing libesd~ would remove libgnome~, because the latter still depends on the former's bits
<tsmithe> yes :S
<tsmithe> i noticed
<tsmithe> but i can safely remove esound :)
<crimsun> pulseaudio-esound-compat is used here
* <lucy2007!i=lucy2007@host235-5-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it>  requested unknown ctcp SOUND The\@Microsoft\@Sound.wav  from #ubuntu-motu
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b *!*@host235-5-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it]  by Seveas
<jussi01> hei motu's, if i get this error, which package do i need..??      "No package 'gtk+-2.0' found"
<crimsun> you need libgtk2.0-dev
<jussi01> thanks crimsun 
<defendguin> anyone know where i can get the latest draft of the Feisty release notes?
<ScottK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/RC
<crimsun> release notes or known issues?
<defendguin> thanks ScottK 
<crimsun> ScottK: at this rate, there's no way I can make my plane. I'm going to have to send an email to CC.
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
<ScottK> Appreciate the effort.  Certainly not worth missing a plane over.
<ScottK> crimsun: Have a good flight.
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> I see they're still on trademarks
<ScottK> Yep, but about done.  ajmitch your presence would be quite welcome when/if they get to me...
<ajmitch> iff I'm not busy at work
<ajmitch> which I may well be (meeting as soon as one of the other guys comes in)
<ScottK> Understand.
<bddebian> ScottK: Oh crap is the meeting on now?
<ScottK> Yeah, but they haven't started member stuff yet.
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes
<Nafallo> OMG. Ubuntu says my harddrive is -1C
<ajmitch> nice
<ajmitch> hddtemp says my harddrives are sleeping
<LaserJock> Nafallo: pack it with lots of ice?
<Nafallo> hddtemp at fault probably :-)
<Nafallo> through sensors-applet :-P
<Nafallo> so one of them :-)
* ajmitch knows his drive is not asleep
<jussi01> hi motu's, im making a deb, but the program doesnt have a make install command. when you make it, it just creates a binary. what command do i need in debian/rules instad of make install?
<ploum> hello
<crimsun> ScottK: sent. Please mention the email if they don't mention having read it.
<ploum> I submitted patch for bug #90499
<ScottK> crimsun: Thanks.  Will do.
<ubotu> Malone bug 90499 in gweled "gweled on Feisty Herd5 plays annoying sound" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90499
<ploum> but I have to questions :
<ploum> how to make a good patch ? (I did "diff -Naur" on the source that I apt-get sourced)
<ploum> 2) must I contact the maintener or someone else ?
<ajmitch> debdiff to upload, or patch for upstream?
<ScottK> ajmitch: It's not a debdiff.
<ScottK> imbrandon: A plus one for me would be nice to if you have time
<ploum> ajmitch : I sended the patch by email upstream but I'm not sure the software is still maintened
<ajmitch> ScottK: hence why I asked. I can't load launchpad or anything outside NZ in under about 5 minutes right now :)
<ajmitch> glacial speeds..
<ScottK> Yeah.  It's more of an upstream oriented pactch.
<ploum> indeed
<ajmitch> ploum: if it's not maintained upstream there's not a lot you can do
<ploum> ok
<ploum> so I will wait for an upstream reply and if no response, the only solution left is a fork
<ScottK> ploum: You could make a proper package update for Ubuntu and attach a debdiff to the bug.
<ploum> ScottK: is there any doc on how doing a proper debdiff ?
<ScottK> Look at the Ubuntu packaging guide and make a package for Ubuntu and then once you've done that, see man debdiff.
* ScottK will get you an example.
<ScottK> ploum: See Bug #104637
<ubotu> Malone bug 104637 in pyparsing "setWhitespaceChars in pyparsing.py missing return" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104637
<tsmithe> ScottK, i uninstalled esound, and killed all evo-related processes, logged out, started an xterm-only session, ran strace on the thing but it worked fine!!
<tsmithe> which annoyed me
<tsmithe> so, i'm not sure where the problem is coming from
<ploum> thanks a lot ScottK ! I will look at this
<tsmithe> is this on feisty?
<ScottK> Yes
* jussi01 points up to his earlier remark...help?
<ScottK> Then I'd say get back with the reporter and see what he has to say.
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> thought you might have some inside info :)
* ScottK is a KDE guy.  No way.
<tsmithe> pah. kde :P
<tsmithe> anyhow, when i run it now in a full gnome session, it *does* take an age
<tsmithe> so it is reproducible
* tsmithe runs strace again
<ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.
<ajmitch> np
<tsmithe> so in an strace, what exactly would a line like 'writev(16, [{"GIOP\1\2\1\0d\0\0\0", 12}, {"\240\375\222\277\3\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\34\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\200z"..., 100}] , 2) = 112' mean?
<tsmithe> wow this takes a long time
<tsmithe> i'm not sure how to read to see what it's actually doing
<tsmithe> i want to fix it properly, not just depend on pulseaudio-esound-compat | esound
<tsmithe> but i can do that
<geser> tsmithe: it's a call to the function writev
<tsmithe> yes... which i guess is writing to somewhere.
<geser> (...) are the arguments for writev (see the manpage what they mean)
<tsmithe> oh it has a manpage
<tsmithe> cool
<geser> every library call should have one
* tsmithe sees no  manpage
<geser> 16 is the fd (file descriptor)
<tsmithe> uhuh
<jdong> tsmithe: http://man.he.net/man3/writev
<geser> and 112 is the return value
<tsmithe> that makes sense. the previous line was: "connect(16, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path="/tmp/orbit-toby/linc-51ef-0-5bebfdda7dc43"}, 44) = 0", so it was connecting descriptor 16to the ORBIT file (socket?)...
<tsmithe> and it hangs on "poll("
<tsmithe> which means it's waiting for some kind of data, right?
<geser> I'm currently not sure if sockfd and fd are same
<tsmithe> hmm ok
<geser> can can also look for the last open which returned 16
<geser> it's important to find the last because a fd can be reused if it got closed
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> it is a socket: there was no open(...). just a "socket(PF_FILE, SOCK_STREAM, 0)         = 16"
<geser> so a sockfd can be used in writev
<geser> is writev the last statement in your strace?
<tsmithe> no. as i said, "poll("
<tsmithe> so it's waiting... (on the socket?)
<geser> ah, didn't scroll up far enough
<tsmithe> :)
<tsmithe> should it not have some kind of timeout?
<tsmithe> it can't poll forever
<geser> yes, it's waiting for data
<tsmithe> i want to know what it's waiting for, without running an strace on  a working one
<geser> the source can probably tell you
<ScottK> bddebian: Only because package uploads don't count.
<tsmithe> geser, heh. yes. 
<bddebian> Later gang
<jmg> lima eight romeo
<ScottK> bddebian: Thanks
<tsmithe> jmg, oh dear :P
* tsmithe debdiffs
<tsmithe> ScottK, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/106588/comments/6
<tsmithe> that semi-fixes it
<ScottK> It's a start
<tsmithe> it is
<tsmithe> at least it will start now
#ubuntu-motu 2007-04-18
<ScottK> Thanks everyone who showed up at the CC meeting for me.
<Nafallo> my pleasure :-)
<pochu> ScottK: congrats :)
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Nafallo> ajmitch: confirmed false statement about harddisk sleeping :-P
<tsmithe> ScottK, were you in for membership?
<ScottK> Yes
* tsmithe heads off to bed
<LaserJock> ScottK: man, this is a loooooong meeting
<Lutin> ScottK: congrats :)
<peterflute> hello all, I was advised to come here by gnomefreak over on the channel for feisty owners....I have a problem with the configuration of an nvidia 6600gt on an asus mb. Any takers?
<gnomefreak> can someone with nvidia knowledge give peterflute  a hand please.
<jmg> peterflute: whats the issue?
<jmg> gnomefreak: surely #ubuntu+1 or #nvidia is a better place...?
<gnomefreak> jmg: he has tried in #ubuntu+1 for 2 weeks
<gnomefreak> jmg: i spent 3 days on it and i still cant figure out why people with that card have such issues
<jmg> peterflute: did you post to forums?
<jmg> hmm
<jmg> ok
<jmg> card specific...
<peterflute> Hello. Every tim eI try to install the nvidia drivers, I get a black screen when I restart the x session. No number lock light on the kbd, no sound. only way to get out is restart, then switch to "nv" via vim
* jmg has a FX5200 and 6800nu
<peterflute> yes jmg, some time ago, but no luck
* gnomefreak has 5200 and 4000
<jmg> peterflute: what version drivers have you tried? did you try the -legacy driver/
<peterflute> I never tried the legacy drivers.....Surely the non legacy woul dbe more appropriate???
<ScottK> Lutin: Thanks
<LaserJock> darn, ScottK's membership went right past me
<Nafallo> hehe
<LaserJock> and I was going to put a link to my blog :/
<ScottK> Is OK, I got in with no problem...
<jmg> peterflute, 7184 supports the   GeForce 6600/GeForce 6600 GT
<LaserJock> well yeah
<jmg> peterflute, so you might give it a go in case there is a regression in the newer driver...
<jmg> iirc thats the reason -legacy was created.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: congrats
<ScottK> Thanks
* gnomefreak didnt know you were not a member :(
<peterflute> So maybe I should just try legacy first?
<jmg> peterflute: give that a go and come back
* ScottK is typically more of a doer than a joiner...
<jmg> yeah
<peterflute> synaptic is so much less hassle...
<jdong> jmg: legacy was created because nvidia is dropping support for older cards with every new driver :)
<gnomefreak> ah
<gnomefreak> 6600 cant be that old
<jmg> jdong: so they should... forceware is ridiculously huge :)
<peterflute> I 'll give it a whirl. thanks for the help. 6600gt is now counted as old then
<jmg> gnomefreak: yeah, but i imagine they dont care about anything thats not bleeding edge
<peterflute> (12 months....jeez)
<jdong> jmg: hah well it ain't any smaller yet :D
<peterflute> sounds like it s a good idea.
<jdong> peterflute: no, it's not old... I still use Geforce4's 
<gnomefreak> jmg: i see
<jdong> peterflute: just a different driver to test
<jmg> stupid deadly embrace :p
<jdong> but the problem sounds like a monitor sync range related thing
<peterflute> See you all later, and thanks very much for the help. It's a great community.
<jdong> we might have to perform surgery on his sync ranges if this doesn't work
<peterflute> thats what I thought jdong, so I tried specifying easy ranges for it, but to no avail
<jdong> weird
<peterflute> we could use an axe....
<peterflute> or .....a mattock!!!!!
<jmg> peterflute: did you try blanking the sync ranges out and letting the driver negotiate?
<jdong> ah, the wonderful world of video drivers :)
<peterflute> jmg, no I didnt....
<jmg> peterflute: also what panel are you connecting to and via what interface
<peterflute> its an lg 774ft via agp
<imbrandon> LaserJock, wow, what a looooooong meeting 
<imbrandon> anyhow gnight all
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no kidding
<LaserJock> I thought they were delgating it all
<jmg> peterflute: dvi, vga, tvout, hdmi?
<peterflute> vga
<jmg> ok
<pochu> peterflute: have you search for that bug in LP?
<pochu> peterflute: bug 95542
<ubotu> Malone bug 95542 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 "no display after enabling nvidia driver (feisty beta)" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95542
<pochu> bug 98721
<ubotu> Malone bug 98721 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 "Black screen on Xorg start" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/98721
<pochu> peterflute: maybe any of those two bugs are what you're experiencing?
<peterflute> I'll take a look
<peterflute> I dont think so...I 'll try the legacy drivers, and I note there iare now three available drivers via synaptic....nvidia-glx, glx legacy, and glx new
* ajmitch just uses nvidia-glx
<jdong> ajmitch: OMGZ BUT ITS NOT NEW!!!one
* ajmitch /ignores
<jdong> lol
<peterflute> cheers all, and tahnks again
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<grayman> oh finally someone talked about it
<grayman> <grayman> what's up with Vesa. It seems to be a lot of troubles
<grayman> * cr3 (n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3)    #ubuntu-devel
<grayman> * johanbr   IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
<grayman> <grayman> apparently it turns off the monitor when using geforce FX 5200(tried only on it). Is it a known issue or it's just my pc?
<grayman> <kylem> "turns off the monitor"?
<grayman> and again it's "fixed" when you switch to nv
<grayman> the other bugs are dealing with ATI cards
<grayman> hmmm
<grayman> and i thought that putting generic driver instead of nv wasn't a bug
<jmg> im confused... did peterflute get fixed?
<pochu> jmg: peterflute> I dont think so...I 'll try the legacy drivers, and I note there iare now thrpeterflute> I dont think so...I 'll try the legacy drivers, and I note there iare now three available drivers via synaptic....nvidia-glx, glx legacy, and glx newee available drivers via synaptic....nvidia-glx, glx legacy, and glx new
<pochu> oups :)
<jmg> yes and then he quit
<grayman> to try the legacy
<grayman> still do not explain why it goes black on generic driver!
<jmg> i think thats an nvagp issue
<grayman> but with nv it works fine
<jmg> yews
<jmg> -w
<jmg> nv doesnt use nvagp
<jmg> only nvidia
<grayman> well, and vesa does?
<grayman> i was talking about vesa which for some reason was put in the config after fresh install
<jmg> vesa doesnt but nvidia vesa support, indeed any post 2000 card has shonky vesa at best
<grayman> maybe it should attempt to put nv instead then?
<grayman> could cause troubles
<grayman> also i could go around that with turning my screen off before X loads and then turning it back
<grayman> with build 14
<grayman> after i updated today it no longer worked
<jmg> typical
<jmg> im not tracking feisty yet
<pochu> night all
<ScottK> Would someone (preferably keescook if he's awake/around), please look at Bug #107350 and see if it qualifies as a security fix.  I think it does.
<ubotu> Malone bug 107350 in pptpd "pptpd freeze" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107350
* keescook goes to look while waiting for compiles to finish
<ScottK> Thanks
<ScottK> keescook: I was thinking the first part of the problem might qualify as a input validation error with some potential for security.
<keescook> ScottK: so, I'm not too familiar with pptp code, but does the patch fix the protocol within the encrypted tunnel, or outside of it?
<keescook> i.e. can a 3rd party cause the denial-of-service?
<ScottK> I don't know.  I'm not familiar with the code.  I saw it go by on #ubuntu-bugs
<ScottK> I looked in the upstream CVS and this was the only change in the new version, so upstream thought it was serious enough to pull the trigger on a release for it.
<keescook> I'm sure it'd be fine for a -update release; sounds like a nasty bug.  :)  For -security, I'd like to see that it has some kind of 3rd party interaction.  (i.e. so what if I can DoS my own PPTP tunnel)  :)
<ScottK> That doesn't say if it's security related or not.
<ScottK> OK.
* ScottK will do -update packages when I can (maybe later tonight) if someone else doesn't get to it first...
<ScottK> keescook: Thanks for looking at it.
<keescook> ScottK: sure!  thanks for noticing it.  :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> keescook: For the fix for Feisty for Bug #107350, I gather I put feisty-updates for distro now?
<ubotu> Malone bug 107350 in pptpd "pptpd freeze" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107350
<bddebian> ScottK: So what happened? :)
<ScottK> I'm in.
<ScottK> Thanks for the plug.
<bddebian> Sweet, congrats
* ScottK was over prepared.  It was a slam dunk.
<ajmitch> it took about 30 seconds
<ScottK> ajmitch: Do you know the answer to my question above for kees?  It's a main package.
<ajmitch> -proposed first
<ScottK> Ah.  Thanks.
<ajmitch> basically follow whatever the main SRU policy is
<ajmitch> should be on the wiki somewhere
* ScottK will look
<ajmitch> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ScottK> Thanks
<bddebian> ScottK: There's no such thing as over-prepared ;-P
<ScottK> It did help them get back on schedule.
* ScottK is more impressed by sacater now that I know he's only 14.
<joejaxx> bddebian: my xorg is taking up 420mb of ram :P
<bddebian> Nice
<ScottK> cool.
<ScottK> keescook: I am somewhat launchpad impaired, so I'm not sure if I got that arranged right, but Bug #107350 now has patches for Feisty, Edgy, and Dapper proposed.
<ubotu> Malone bug 107350 in pptpd "SRU proposal - pptpd freeze" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107350
<jmg>  pptpd sucks
<jmg> l2tpd ktx
<jmg> openvpn ktx
<jmg> pptpd notx
* ScottK has no opinion.  It'll suck less after the patch...
<jmg> clearly ScottK has never had to debug a pptpd tunnel
<jmg> LCP TIMEOUT ERROR!
<jmg> IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO VPN!
<ScottK> You are correct.
<ScottK> User reports serious issue with a package and has a patch, I package the patch.  That's as far as I go.
<jmg> :)
<jmg> of course
<jmg> im just ranting
* ScottK noticed.
<jmg> fortunately i no longer work in that particular enterprise
<jmg> here we roll openvpn
<crimsun> ScottK: 'grats!
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> It was easy with all the backing I had.
<bddebian> Don't get cocky ;-P
<jmg> scottk is now a member of the illuminatus
<jmg> please report for reeducation
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> bddebian: Not me, all you guys that showed up/e-mailed.
<pierce> is there a repository somewhere where I can get recent versions of lastfm and azureus etc?
<ScottK> Generally we just support what's in the official repositories. I'm sure the answer to that is yes, but I've no idea where or how well they work.
<pierce> hmm, so there are no official repositories that have the new versions?  The version of azureus in feisty is really buggy, and new versions address those bugs.  From the bug reports I have seen posted, it looks like the only workaround is to install the new azureus outside of the whole apt thing altogether
<jdong> pierce: 2.5.0.0 is the latest version of Azureus
<Lathiat> 2.5.0.4 is the latest releases version
<pierce> 2.5.0.4 is the latest in 2.5. and there's also 3.0 now
<jdong> pierce: the bugginess is most likely due to Azureus being compiled with GCC Java, not with the actual program itself
<Lathiat> 2.5.0.0 is in edgy
<jdong> pierce: 3.0 does not run under Linux yet; 2.5.0.4 will auto-update when running it, IIRC
<Lathiat> piece: heh 3.0 just links to 2.5.0.0 on linux
<pierce> 2.5.0.0 is the latest in feisty
<Lathiat> jdong: it wont auto update when installed with apt
<Lathiat> because normal users cant write to the files
<jdong> Lathiat: I thought it installs to ~/.azureus
<jdong> at least the last time I used Debian azureus it had that capability
<Lathiat> yeh?
<Lathiat> i've had it whigne and complain before
* Lathiat tries
<jdong> GRR it crashes under compiz
<jdong> that's right.
<Lathiat> heh
<jdong> Azureus isn't one of the easy ones to package either
<Lathiat> yeh theres a bunch of changes
<jdong> not to mention we repack upstream tarballs
<pierce> why does ubuntu even support compiz?  I thought people stopped developing on that a while back.  those java bugs were fixed in beryl a long time ago
<jdong> pierce: no, compiz is under active development
<DarkMageZ> i heard rumors that compiz & beryl were going to merge
<jdong> pierce: Currently Azureus crashes with the identical internal error under Beryl 0.2.1
<jdong> DarkMageZ: they're not rumors; they're plans,
<RAOF> DarkMageZ: And more than plans, they're almost-implemented plans.
<superm1> RAOF, almost implemented as in the merge is almost done?
<RAOF> Yeah.
<superm1> wow.  i expected that to be a several month long process.  sure shocked me 
<RAOF> There's still some social issues which need thrashing out, but (almost all) the beryl plugins now run on an unmodified compiz-core
<RAOF> When last I checked, at least.
<superm1> what happened of the plugins with questionable legality, eg genie effect and expose?
<RAOF> AFAIK expose (== scale) was never questionably legal, and I think the genie effect (by default) has a minimum # of "waves".
<superm1> ah
<RAOF> (Stupid, stupid patents)
* superm1 nods
<DarkMageZ> wouldn't expose still be questionably legal in the US tho? doesn't apple have a patent for that?
<RAOF> Dunno.  It's been in Compiz forever (as in, since the 0.0.1 release), though.
<jdong> RAOF: Novell shipped with scale on for SLED10... I think if it was a serious legal problem, they would've not allowed it
<jdong> these are the guys who believe the MPEG2 codec must be stripped out of ffmpeg to ship...
<jdong> legal paranoia to the max.
<RAOF> Right. :)
<DarkMageZ> they can only be paranoid if they realise
<jdong> DarkMageZ: I'm sure they realize
<jdong> Novell isn't stupid, on the legal front
<RAOF> And, well, MPEG2 *should* be stripped out of ffmpeg by default to ship... :P
<jdong> RAOF: doesn't our ffmpeg support mpeg2?
<jdong> RAOF: I think we can play mpeg2 out of the box, actually....
<RAOF> Yes.
<jdong> :)
<superm1> but we still do have gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mpegdemux available to us
<RAOF> We can, but (from memory) there are still a bunch of patents on the MPEG* codecs
<jdong> install SLED, the only thing it plays out of the box are Ogg Vorbis, Ogg Theora, and RealPlayer stuff
<jdong> RAOF: MPEG* are all patented
<RAOF> *Realplayer*?
<jdong> RAOF: they licensed Realplayer to play MP3's
<RAOF> Aaaah.  Right.
<jdong> that's their solution for legal mp3 playback
<jdong> amarok and stuff all route thru realplayer
<RAOF> Why not fluendo's Gstreamer plugin?
<jdong> it was before that was available
<RAOF> Fair enough.
<jdong> I'm not sure what's the reason nowadays
<jdong> but Novell's been doing that since they acquired Suse
<superm1> if fluendo's is installed, does gstreamer use that over ffmpeg?
<jdong> silly legal world...
<jmg> so braindead
<RAOF> No idea, and don't actually care.
<RAOF> One mp3 decoder is pretty much as good as another :)
<DarkMageZ> if you wanna get rid of the majority of the patent BS. all you need to do is nuke america.
<bddebian> *ahem*
<DarkMageZ> after evacuating the rare few smart ones
<pierce> haha
<jdong> lol
<RAOF> There's plenty of patent craziness around, though.  It's not like it's just the USA.
<pierce> don't know, Australia, EU, etc are getting into the fun now too
* superm1 thinks we should start our own country and in its constitution, include a clause that bans anything related to patents and drm.
<bddebian> Well that has to be George Bush's fault too somehow
<RAOF> Hey, is it now legal to rip CD's that we own in .au?  I forget how that's coming along.
<pierce> or just join the pirate party in whatever country you live in :-p
<DarkMageZ> superm1, i hear the pirate bay is trying to create their own country. you could work with them to make a great nation.
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> DarkMageZ, would you come live there with me then?
<bddebian> Yeah good luck powering those servers on granola
<pierce> haha
<bddebian> What the hell happened to bhale, anyway, I never see that guy anymore? :-(
<pierce> haha, from wikipedia    The term "patent" originates from the Latin word patere which means "to lay open" (i.e., make available for public inspection)
<pierce> "a patent provides the right to exclude others from making, using, selling, offering for sale, or importing the patented invention"
<pierce> I still don't understand how that can apply to free software
<lifeless> pierce: because its the law.
<lifeless> laws are a social convention, and have nothing to do with the 'laws of physics'
<RAOF> pierce: "making", "using"
<lifeless> its entirely possible to write a law that makes possessing a copy of the GPL a felony.
<RAOF> It's stupid, but pieces of mathematics (algorithms) are patentable.
<RAOF> At least in the USA.
<pierce> I think it's all contestable though.  The first amendment to distribute information should be able to trump all of this new legal BS
<ScottK> And in the EU too if you folks over there don't watch out.
<Burgundavia> pierce: first amendment only talks about freedom of speech
<Burgundavia> this is not a freedom of speech issue
<RAOF> pierce: But patents have *always* been about restricting what you can *do* with information (/speech), while forcing you to publish the info.
<pierce> haha, mathematical formalization, and proper publication of laws would be nice :-p
<pierce> lawyers would only be needed to help prove or disprove intent
<RAOF> A nice idea, but flawed in practice.  I doubt you could draft laws which need no interpretation.
<pierce> ya, there would always be loopholes when it comes to intent, so there are still ways out
<RAOF> And where there is interpretation, there is precedent.  And where there is precedent, there is crazy lawyering :)
<RAOF> </yoda>
<pierce> I also think that all written text should be XML compliant
<lifeless> you should all read 'accelerando'
<bddebian> or Mein Kampf
<RAOF> By?  Where?
<RAOF> Ok, my response was delayed for *slightly* too long there :)
<pierce> hehe, amazon recommended mein kampf to me the other day.  that was a bit weird
<lifeless> google for 'accelerando'
<ScottK> The good news is enough big companies are starting to get hit by stupid patent tricks that I think some of them are having second thoughts.
<lifeless> ScottK: what, like IBM, MS, SCO, ???
* ScottK goes to bed (It's late and he's tired).
<lifeless> some of the biggest patent holders ...
<ScottK> Microsoft, Blackberry, others
* RAOF loves the "cold war" approach to patents.  That'll learn'em.
<ScottK> Not SCO.   SCO isn't about (much) patents.
* ScottK really goes to bed this time...
<DarkMageZ> has sco been liquidated yet?
<jmg> they are pretty much pure litigation now
<jml> RAOF: re ripping CDs
<jml> RAOF: watch Kim Weatherall's talk from LCA 2007
<imbrandon> re
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> Good afternoon :)
<RAOF> jml: Yeah, I *really* must get around to watching that.
<jml> RAOF: it makes little sense for Australian geeks to argue about IP law unless they've watched that.
<jml> or unless they are lawyers
<LaserJock> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hey LaserJock
<dholbach> LaserJock: what do you think about adding the behindmotu feed to planet ubuntu?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> Burgundavia doesn't like the idea
<dholbach> why?
<LaserJock> and I'm not sure either
<LaserJock> the idea was that planet was for personal blogs
<dholbach> if we have stuff like 'debian package a day' we can also have 'behind motu'
<LaserJock> so things like package-a-day and things like that shouldn't be there
<Burgundavia> dholbach: I am not really in favour of the deiban package of the day
<Burgundavia> it really should be part of the fridge
<dholbach> I like 'behind motu' and want to hear more about our MOTUs and hopefuls
<dholbach> and it's not 'high volume'
<LaserJock> dholbach: so my thought is maybe we can promote it elsewhere?
<dholbach> we also have 'launchpad updates' on planet
<LaserJock> Burgundavia suggested we can promote it on fridge and UWN
<dholbach> AND planet ;-)
<LaserJock> I mean, I try to keep them relevent and short(ish) to be planet friendly
<LaserJock> but I do see Burgundavia's point
<dholbach> it's an rss feed - it's the most natural thing to aggregate it on planet ;-)
<Burgundavia> then why not have the fridge on planet?
<Burgundavia> planet is aobut people
<Burgundavia> fridge is new
<Burgundavia> news
<dholbach> behindmotu is about people too :)
<LaserJock> true
<dholbach> but I don't want to talk people into something - I just liked the idea very much and *to me* it makes more sense than other things on planet
* dholbach shuts up now
<Burgundavia> I am merely concerned about planet getting very noisy] 
<LaserJock> well, I'm not particularly stuck either way
<\sh> moins
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: well, it'll be roughly 1 post per week
<LaserJock> about Ubuntu people
<crimsun> behind* is the least likely candidate to decrease the S:N ratio.
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, planet is already noisy with non-ubuntu stuff, but thats the thing about planets IMHO they should be a little bit, they are "behind the lives of the people of ubuntu" 
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: indeed
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> btw moins 
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> well, I'm up for whatever people decide
<LaserJock> since currently I'm in control of Behind MOTU I can make it as noisy (or quiet) as I want
<LaserJock> and I don't think I'm a particularly noisy person
<\sh> a side block for package of the day or whatever is nice on planet ,)
<LaserJock> I could be wrong though
<imbrandon> i think once a week is good , its not tooo much
<imbrandon> redbull gives you wingggggggggsssssss
<LaserJock> oh goodness
<LaserJock> imbrandon's high again
<\sh> redoing planet with drupal and adding more stuff to the frontpage? ,-)
<imbrandon> \sh, i dont think drupal is the answer, planetplanet is quite extensable, and the -devel list for it is very active
<imbrandon> its just a matter of getting the templates that p.u.c uses and modifying them
<Flannel> drupal is stooopid
<ajmitch> evening
<imbrandon> me and / or corey should be able to get them as we're on the website team :)
<Flannel> then again, I think most CMSs are.  Completely inappropriate for relatively static websites.
<imbrandon> Flannel, planet is anything but static :)
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
* ajmitch wants to see more stuff on behind motu
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: indeed. I will get on nuzum after the feisty relesae
<\sh> well, planet is a blog rss aggregator from ubuntu members blogs
<\sh> fridge is a news page for hot stuff
<Flannel> imbrandon: right, planet is an appropriate use of a CMS.  Ive seen company websites that consist entirely of "posts"
<imbrandon> agrees with ajmitch i think its time for another weekly dose :)
<\sh> so debian package of the day is something for fridge -> software news tab
<imbrandon> \sh, possibly, i agree
<\sh> it's easy to add it to the fridge (even with an rss aggregator plugin of drupal)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: poke LaserJock :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock!!!
<ajmitch> oh mr LaserJock!
<imbrandon> pick another unfortunate^W willing MOTU :)
<LaserJock> dude
<LaserJock> I'm just waiting for the email
<imbrandon> hehe :)
<ajmitch> waiting?
<LaserJock> I think I'm even getting a screenie this time
<imbrandon> from? /me is curious
<ajmitch> so you've picked out some lucky victim?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: certainly not me :)
<LaserJock> waiting for geser (sssh, don't tell)
<ajmitch> ah...
<imbrandon> cool
* imbrandon nominates Fujitsu and crimsun for future stories /me ducks
<LaserJock> yeah, I need to think of some better questions
<LaserJock> but I plan on sending out several at once so I have a ready supply
<ajmitch> "what is your favourite colour?"
<ajmitch> "what is your quest?"...
<imbrandon> "what level DungeonMaster are you?" ...
<LaserJock> my original plan was to do ~ 1/week so end up with ~50 interviews by the end of a year
<LaserJock> I figure that should cover most MOTUs and MOTU Hopefuls
<imbrandon> silly DM's dont have levels
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no no no
<ajmitch> imbrandon: what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
<imbrandon> heh
* \sh prepares rollout of 100 servers (deployment time: ETA 6 mins)
<LaserJock> I also had another brain storm this evening
<LaserJock> (must have been something I ate)
<LaserJock> but I need to develop it more before I unleash it on you guys
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just spill it
<ajmitch> we won't tell
<LaserJock> heh, I'm just afraid everybody will laugh at me unless I have a "proof-of-concept'
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> we're used to crazy ideas
<LaserJock> oh man
<LaserJock> speaking of which
<imbrandon> ajmitch, btw i picked up a nother 2u case ( empty ) yesterday , gonna fill it with the ldap && /home server in the next few days
<LaserJock> I was just going through the 7 page "Gutsy Gibbon" forum
<ajmitch> imbrandon: nice
<ajmitch> oh yes, I've been reading the crack
<imbrandon> i havent touched the forum in weeks ( other than to complain at the CC meeting today about the ad's still on the forums )
<imbrandon> ajmitch, it will probably only be like a 1ghz box with a gig of ram but it should be plenty to serve nfs /home and do ldap auth , plus it has 4 sata connections and 2 ide channels plus an open pci ( half height ) slot open for more sata controlers if needed , so lots of storage
<imbrandon> hopefully when i put it in, i can also upgrade all the nic's to have gig-e too so nfs will be fast
* ajmitch wants a fast box
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> then when thats all in place i think i will start hitting getting a amd64 up hard ( and possibly a faster ppc ), because all the other peices will be there
<imbrandon> pieces*
<joejaxx> hello all
<joejaxx> :)
<imbrandon> heya joejaxx 
<joejaxx> how are you imbrandon 
<joejaxx> wow this is ridiculous
<joejaxx> one day i am going to turn off my laptop for a day
<ajmitch> joejaxx: go for it
<joejaxx> it has been on 7 consecutive days
* ajmitch makes sure to spend at least 2 weeks away from his computers a year ;)
<joejaxx> ;)
<ajmitch> only 7?
<ajmitch> man, I've had 2-3 month uptimes on my laptop
<\sh> k...rest of lucas php4 unmet deps uploaded...
<ajmitch> without suspend/resume working
<joejaxx> the bad thing is it has been running at 100% cpu and 82% ram used constantly lol
<ajmitch> that's pretty silly
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i used to do that with my nw8240
<\sh> anyone else who needs a sponsor right before feisty release ? ,-)
<ajmitch> \sh: sure :)
<joejaxx> but i mostly ssh into everything :P
<\sh> ajmitch: lol...you have the powers yourself
<joejaxx> lol
<ajmitch> \sh: oh no I mean sponsor with $$ :)
<\sh> ajmitch: oh...this sponsor I could need for myself ,-)
<\sh> oh wow...how nice...
<\sh> I just received a very nice email from dktrkranz
<ajmitch> yay
<Lathiat> \sh: whos that? :)
<Lathiat> i feel i've missed out on some awesome history here.. :)
<\sh> Lathiat: he fixed some php4 unmet deps...and right now we finished this task (I uploaded most of them, and hobbsee and steve) now he is happy and he wants to apply for motuship, yay
<Lathiat> oh, cool
<StevenK> I don't think I'm qualified to say yes or no, just because I haven't seen enough of his work.
<ajmitch> \sh: what else has he done?
<\sh> ajmitch: not enough ;) but he will do more work for gutsy
<\sh> but at least we are getting more people to work on universe 
<RAOF> I hope to do more for Universe this cycle.
<RAOF> Thinking of which, anyone else want to package Tao? :)
<ajmitch> already done in debian, iirc
<RAOF> Cool!  Must have been done since last I checked.  Unless I did a stupid search again :)
<ajmitch> or it's not uploaded
* ajmitch is using a bundled copy still in f-spot
<RAOF> Yeah, packages.debian.org doesn't seem to know anything about Tao, at least.
<RAOF> Or rather, it knows quite a lot about the Tao COBRA implementation, but nothing CIL :)
<RAOF> Hm, the only Tao bug on wnpp seems to be by slomo.
<RAOF> And a year and a day old :)
<ajmitch> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-mono/tao/trunk/debian/?rev=0&sc=0
<RAOF> Hm, seems to be 1.3.0.  Maybe they'd like some help updating to the 2.0rc2 and 2.0 when it's released.
<imbrandon> isnt ajmitch part of "they" ?
<imbrandon> or just for ubuntu
<RAOF> The control suggests it's slomo & someone else I don't reconginse :)
<imbrandon> i should really get back into upstream mono hacking, i havent for almost 2 years now
<ajmitch> imbrandon: TiNC
<imbrandon> TiNC ?
* ajmitch nods
<imbrandon> The Internet Namespace Cooperative ?
<jmg> doh
<jmg> paypal ftl :(
<imbrandon> ajmitch, wikipedia: TiNC refers to a "grey, antracite, black," form of film material produced by Micromy.
* imbrandon is a bit lost
<StevenK> There Is No Cabal
<imbrandon> ahh
<damko> good morning to all
<StevenK> # TINC is an acronym for There Is No Cabal.
<StevenK> # TINC also refers to the The (International) Noise Conspiracy.
<StevenK> From wikipedia.
<imbrandon> heh yea, i was looking at the small i
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> like you should have to ask...
* ajmitch expected that StevenK would know :)
<StevenK> What Cabal? TINC
<superm1> imbrandon, yo any updates about the server?
<StevenK> ajmitch: I was also proving I could find it on wikipedia. :-P
<imbrandon> superm1, yea its comming, sorry man, they are being slow about getting the trunk run and stuff
<superm1> imbrandon, just wanted to make sure you didnt forget :)
<superm1> okay its late - i'm off to bed.  night
<damko> [OT / FUN]  useful  (very useful indeed...) if u are planning to change the look of your house :-D http://www.xxxitchen.com/
<imbrandon> uptime
<StevenK>  00:00:00 up 0:00,  0 users,  load average: 80.12, 85.52, 82.13
<imbrandon> lol
<damko> in bash if I save a variable like A="123" and if rewrite A="4567" there is the possibility to find again A="123" from ram? I mean with the second assignment will I overwrite the first value? 
<shawarma> damko: Consider it gone.
<damko> shawarma: u mean that it's overwritten ?
<shawarma> damko: You might be lucky to find it in /proc/kmem, but if you need to do that, you're doing something wrong. :-)
<damko> I'm saving the password of a crypted fs during the mount-time and I would to be sure that the pwd can't be retireved in some way from the ram or whereelse
<damko> s/retireved/retrieved
<damko> [ fun]  tux droid : really amazing http://www.kysoh.com/index_html
<enyc> Hrrm... I can use "minicom" to get ttyS0 no problem... I can use "wy60" program at the console along with ssh to connect to a ssh service too....  but I would like to know how to use wy60 on the local machine in combination with minicom (or something) in order to connect  to a wyse60-expecting-host on the ttyS0 port! ;-) suggestions appeciated!   ... where should I ask. ?
<shawarma> damko: That would depend on bash internals. ie. does it reuse the space of a variable if possible, or does it just remove it from a linked list and put the space back in a pool.
<damko> shawarma: is there a way to understand how it works for sure?
<shawarma> damko: Look at the source.
<damko> shawarma: u mean bash source ? :-( im not skilled enough 4 this
<shawarma> damko: In any case, the only things that can look at the core of a process is root, a debugger and the process itself.
<shawarma> damko: It's not much to worry about. It's not something you can solve in a shell script anyway.
<damko> shawarma: i see. i'll do this.. i'll overwrite the variable .. hoping it's enough. thanks a lot for your support.
<mq_> damko, you could exec the shell into a new shell (the same one) without the critical variable in memory ...
<fdoving> anyone seen this: dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<fdoving> and know what could be causing it? 
<fdoving> it's a simple and clean cdbs package.
<StevenK> You haven't built the package so debian/files doesn't contain .debs
<damko> mq_: can u clarify?
<mq_> damko, do you know exec statement ?
<damko> yes
<damko> i got .. i look around
<mq_> so exec could erase any variable
<mq_> ok
<damko> mq_: thanks a lot
<mq_> :-)
<danirus> Hi all, there's a problem with svn-buildpackage, it also happens in Etch. svn-inject uses svn_load_dirs, but because a license problem this script has been remove from the etch version (and feisty).
<danirus> there's a package to resolve the problem in testing: svn-load
<danirus> does anybody hear about this before?
<danirus> I've built svn-load locally to use it as a replacement for the svn_load_dirs, and apparently is working fine. What do you think about all this? Should be svn-add in feisty?
<imbrandon> danirus, its less than 24 hours from release, a little late to add something to feisty, but you can target feisty+1 and possibly feisty-backports
<danirus> Yes, it's a pity...
<danirus> imbrandon: but is it possible to fix the problem after tomorrow, I mean, with Fesity released?
<pochu> danirus: yes, in feisty-updates, or feisty-backports
<pochu> !sru | danirus
<ubotu> danirus: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for main and restricted, while https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU is for universe and multiverse.
<pochu> !backports
<ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<ajmitch> night all
<danirus> thanks pochu
<pochu> night ajmitch
<pochu> danirus: yw
<Kaloz> is it normal that kqemu is at 1.3.0pre11 and qemu is at only 0.8.2 in feisty? :p
<StevenK> Kaloz: Yes. kqemu and qemu are two completly seperate bits of software.
<Kaloz> StevenK: this isn't true since qemu 0.9 :)
<StevenK> Neither of which is in feisty
<Kaloz> well, this is #ubuntu-motu and they are in universe
<Kaloz> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kqemu/+bug/83539 says it should be synched already
<ubotu> Malone bug 83539 in kqemu "Update to GPL'ed version 1.3.0pre11" [Wishlist,Fix released]  
<siretart> Kaloz: feel free to work on updated qemu packages. I supposed they can be handled with syncs from debian
<Kaloz> siretart: theoritically both kqemu and qemu has been synched
<DktrKranz> even in debian they are single source packages
<DktrKranz> debian currently ships 0.8.X
<StevenK> Kaloz: Feisty is releasing in two days, give us a break
<DktrKranz> 0.9.X series is still on experimental
<Kaloz> StevenK: i'm not blaming/bitching, just found it weird and thought it's good to let you know about it :)
<StevenK> Debian may well throw 0.9 to unstable in the next few weeks at which point Gutsy will get it automatically.
<DktrKranz> bug 85605
<ubotu> Malone bug 85605 in qemu "Please upgrade to 0.9.0" [Wishlist,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85605
<DktrKranz> this is request for inclusion, if you want you can subscribe in order to be aware of changes
<imbrandon> also one can request somethng is synced from expirmental in some cases ( for gutsy )
<DarkSun88> Hi
<\sh> moins DktrKranz , DarkSun88 :)
<DarkSun88> \sh: Hi, thank you for upload
<DktrKranz> heya \sh :)
<DarkSun88> :)
<\sh> np...thx to you for your work :)
<DktrKranz> well, if you have something in your to-do list, you have only to ping us
<DktrKranz> and sorry for flooding your mailbox :P
<DktrKranz> see you later
<jmg> heh
<\sh> flooding my mailbox? so you are the spammers with those "v1aGra" mails ,->
<BugMaN> hi \sh ! :-)
<\sh> hoi BugMaN
<\sh> brb smoking
<shawarma> Nice. I just smashed my irssi's uptime of 124 days. :-(
<wardi> is this the channel for "please unblock" requests for packages in universe?
<pochu> unblock?
<wardi> allow a package into feisty
<StevenK> At this point, it's not going to happen.
<Jucato> have to wait for Gutsy now
<wardi> ok then
<pochu> wardi: all the repos are frozen now
<wardi> do packages automatically move from debian testing to universe?
<wardi> (when not frozen)
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> well, unstable
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian 
* Nafallo attackhugs bddebian 
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee, Nafallo, geser
<pochu> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya pochu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Hobbsee] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU |  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html | HAPPY UNIVERSE HUG DAY | Entire archive is frozen for release
<Hobbsee> well done guys - now the starting to prepare for gutsy :P
* ScottK already has a package waiting on revu for the repos to open...
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee should grab a whole lot of people to go thru u-u-s stuff adn reject a lot of it
<ScottK> If there's an easy way for me to get just those bugs on LP, I'll take a whack at some of it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/
* ScottK is looking
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Is there anything to do with ones like this https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/supertuxkart/+bug/83127 - I don't see a way to unsub UUS?
<ubotu> Malone bug 83127 in supertuxkart ".desktop file missing" [Low,Fix released]  
<Hobbsee> ScottK: dunno.  there are a whole heap of debian tasks there for them
* Hobbsee can unsubscribe them
* ScottK will leave the Debian one's alone then.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: just going thru them now
<ScottK> Hobbsee: For virtually all the ones I've looked at, it looks to me like unsub UUS and leave it open is the right answer.  Unfortunately, I can't help with that.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah, that's hwat i found.  there were still some that were applicable, but very few
<crimsun> we totally need to freeze the Ubuntu section on LP for release, too :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<Hobbsee> that'd be good
* Jucato tries to freeze Hobbsee... and runs away
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee gets frozen eeasliy enough
<sacater> ScottK: thank you, i only just got back from school :D
<sacater> im referring to the 'impressed by sacater' message
* ScottK had no idea you were as young as you are.
<ScottK> Of course Hobbsee had no idea I'm as old as I am (in Ubuntu terms I'm ancient - over 40).
<jsgotangco> Hobbsee: its almost the 19th yay!
<jsgotangco> hehe
<zul> Hobbsee: you like never ever sleep
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: it's the 19th here!
<jsgotangco> haha
<Hobbsee> ScottK: haha, yes
<Jucato> timezones :)
* ScottK goes to look for his coffee cup.  It's around here somewhere.
<jsgotangco> gimme the dl link gimme the dl link
<Hobbsee> message from the future:  stop living in the past!  kthxbye!
* bddebian goes to look for his crack pipe
<Jucato> bddebian: I think I saw Hobbsee taking it :)
* Jucato runs away again
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> i'd say that was jdong... he always seems to like such things..
* elkbuntu watches the long pointy stick follow Jucato
* Jucato runs farther away
* sacater watches
* Hobbsee DOOMS in general
* sacater finds long pointy stick very entertaining
<Jucato> Hobbsee has DOOMed us all!!!
<ScottK> No, just you.
<jsgotangco> yeah
* jsgotangco is immune because he's in gnom now
<crimsun> it'll like be the 20th in some region before 7.04 goes boom.
<crimsun> likely, even
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Jucato> most probably the 20th in Hobbsee's world
<Jucato> part of the world, I mean
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> IT'S ALL MY WORLD!
<Hobbsee> :D
* Hobbsee stands at the centre :P
<jsgotangco> pity to those who live way too far in the future
<koke> hi guys! it's been a long time
<pochu> heya koke, and welcome back :)
<jsgotangco> yeah welcome back
<koke> anyone going to Sevilla?
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> hi koke 
<koke> I'd like to go, but I'm on the US for the MySQL conference/vacation and I'll arrive at Spain one day before the Ubuntu conference
<koke> so after 3 weeks travelling, it may be too much :)
<Hobbsee> koke: bah.  just travel continually
<\sh> dholbach / siretart: http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2007-April/056062.html
<\sh> dholbach: / siretart: and the following answers
<\sh> and something more important: http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2007-April/056080.html
<dholbach> we have no facilities to automatically forward bugs
<\sh> dholbach: don't care about that...apport is useless, winedbg is the choice ;) so normal business, pointing user towards winedbg...
<dholbach> you wrote it in the mail
<\sh> dholbach: it was an idea how to improve bughunting between us and them
<jussi01> hello Motu's
<jussi01> I have a small problem: Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<jussi01>  signfile waon_0.8-0ubuntu1.dsc Jussi Schultink <jussi01@gmail.com>
<jussi01> gpg: skipped "Jussi Schultink <jussi01@gmail.com>": secret key not available
<jussi01> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<jussi01> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<jussi01> debuild: fatal error at line 1155:
<\sh> dholbach: but dan kegels (last post) is more interessting
<jussi01> running debsign failed
<jussi01> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<jussi01>  signfile waon_0.8-0ubuntu1.dsc Jussi Schultink <jussi01@gmail.com>
<jussi01> gpg: skipped "Jussi Schultink <jussi01@gmail.com>": secret key not available
<dholbach> but "can we dump our bugs on your bugtracker automatically" is nothing an upstream project will find inviting
<jussi01> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<jussi01> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<jussi01> debuild: fatal error at line 1155:
<Hobbsee> jussi01: does the secret key exist?
<jussi01> running debsign failed
<jussi01> oops
<jussi01> sorry
<jussi01> Hobbsee, yes
<jdong> jussi01: gpg doesn't seem to agree :)
<dholbach> having a good DebuggingWine page on the wiki will help
<Hobbsee> are you specifying the correct key ID?
<geser> jussi01: are you using seahorse and its agent?
<dholbach> it's a good idea to add winedbg there
<Hobbsee> i'd double check that it does exist, and that you're specifying the correct key, for a start.   then maybe scream
<jdong> Hobbsee: screaming does wonders for GPG :)
<jussi01> geser, seahorse?
<jussi01> :D
<\sh> dholbach: there is a possibility to set it up automatically in our wine packages (changing some wine registry settings)
<Hobbsee> jdong: it does, yes :D
<Hobbsee> jdong: does for a lot of things!
<crimsun> screaming doesn't seem to help triage my bugs :/
<\sh> dholbach: winedbg just jumps into win api mode, and can interpret windows stuff which is deep inside wine and outside linux 
<ScottK> crimsun: it does get my children to behave (at least for a little while).
<\sh> crimsun: use wine ,-)
<dholbach> \sh: everything that helps to figure out what goes wrong is a good start
<geser> jussi01: seahorse is a graphical frontend to gpg
<micahcowan> Hobbsee, sorry about u-u-s on that silly gawk bug... *'_'*
<\sh> dholbach: any possibility to switch off apport for wine?
<jussi01> geser, no, im not using that
<\sh> dholbach: or for any other app in general? (just curious)
<Hobbsee> micahcowan: no problem.  you may want to subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors on that, assuming it still exists.  or ask a main developer directly
<dholbach> \sh: apport is turned off now
<jussi01> i just did  debuild -S -sa
<geser> jussi01: manually signing a file with gpg works?
<\sh> dholbach: for release version yes, but even for development versions?
<micahcowan> Ooh, does that exist? Cool. I was gonna do the "ask a main developer" thing, but as it wasn't crucial I wanted to wait until the feisty fervor was through.
<dholbach> \sh: ask pitti
<\sh> I'll ask pitti ... I think he aeh yeah ;)
<Hobbsee> micahcowan: yeah, they wont upload such things until merges are done for gutsy, by now...
<\sh> ok..shutting down for now
<micahcowan> Hobbsee, done, tyvm! :)
<jussi01> yeah, key definately exists
<Hobbsee> micahcowan: :) no problem
<jdong> jussi01: pastebin gpg -K
<jussi01> jdong, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16265/
<jdong> jussi01: what's default-key set to in gpg.conf?
<jdong> you should have it set to B3E95E3D
<jussi01> jdong, where is gpg.conf located
<jdong> ~/.gnupg/
<geser> jussi01: does "debsign -K0xB3E95E3D waon_0.8-0ubuntu1.dsc" work?
<jussi01> heh, jdong I dont have that file...
<jdong> you don't have a gpg.conf?
<jussi01> no....
<jdong> interesting
<jussi01> weird
<jdong> well add default-key YOUR_ID to it
<jussi01> jdong, doesnt help
<Hobbsee> you can do that in .bashrc too
<jdong> jussi01: try geser's command...
<jdong> if that works then you can set DEBSIGN_KEYID in .bashrc or .devscripts.conf
<jdong> well I'm off...
<jussi01> geser, it gives me an unrecognised option....
<Hobbsee> jussi01: you want GPGKEY=7D2BCE85
<Hobbsee> or your iD
<jussi01> Hobbsee, where, sorry?
<Hobbsee> in .bashrc
<Hobbsee> no idea about anywhere else, that's just where i put mine
<Hobbsee> along with DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME, iirc
<geser> jussi01: it's a small k instead of K
<geser> debsign -k0xB3E95E3D waon_0.8-0ubuntu1.dsc
<jussi01> yeah, that works
<geser> I guess it's the missing comment from your key in the changelog
<jussi01> ?
<geser> so either including your comment (as show in your key) to your name in changelogs or set DEBSIGN_KEYID=0xB3E95E3D
<jussi01> ahhah...
<geser> jussi01: use "Jussi Schultink (jussi01) <jussi01@gmail.com>" as your name + email in changelogs
<jussi01> geser, thanks,it works now!!!
<jussi01> :D
<jussi01> what the correct naming convention if its the first release? iv currently got: waon0.8-0ubuntu1
<jussi01> or rather waon (0.8-0ubuntu1) in changelog
<jussi01> and motu is dead...
<Hobbsee> jussi01: that's correct
<jussi01> excellent!!
<jussi01> :D
<Hobbsee> :)
<jussi01> ok, I remember I had to change something with dput to upload to universe instead main... can someone remind me what?
<Hobbsee> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Hobbsee> jussi01: use dput revu *.changes or change your dput.cf for the default host
<jussi01> thanks Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> no problem
<jussi01> Hobbsee, I was thinking of going for membership soon, do you think I have done enough?
<Hobbsee> jussi01: um, would expect so.  i'd have to see your wiki page though :)
<jussi01> Hobbsee, It doesnt really exist yet, I have to work on that...
<jussi01> :P
<Hobbsee> jussi01: haha, yes, that'd help
<geser> Hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi geser, thanks for the email
<LaserJock> it'll be up shortly
<geser> LaserJock: no hurry
* jussi01 waits for his package to apear on revu...
<sacater> LaserJock: did i thank you for the help in CC
<LaserJock> I think so
<sacater> i say again :D
<sacater> ajmitch: you too
* jussi01 cries... 
<LaserJock> don't cry jussi01, it'll be ok
<LaserJock> :-)
<jussi01> LaserJock, my package isnt there
<jussi01> :(
<jussi01> (revu)
<LaserJock> jussi01: what's the name of the package?
<jussi01> waon
<LaserJock> ok, it's in the rejected queue
<jussi01> grr, why?
<LaserJock> jussi01: it doesn't see you in the keyring
<jussi01> argh, gpg key changed...
<LaserJock> when?
<jussi01> today
<LaserJock> and Launchpad has got the new key
<LaserJock> ?
<jussi01> how do i fix it?
<jussi01> yeah
<jussi01> launchpad has it
<ScottK> Is it on purpose that I can't comment on other people's uploads any more because I am a mere contributor and not a MOTU?
<ScottK> This is on REVU, sorry
<LaserJock> jussi01: was this in just the last few hours?
<jussi01> yes
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> gotta stop switching keys on us ;-)
<jussi01> hey, its the first time...
<jussi01> I lost the other one when i formatted...
<ScottK> bug: #107530
<LaserJock> just gotta give you a hard time
<LaserJock> :-)
<jussi01> lol
<ScottK> So if we just make the error messages less cryptic, for Bug: #107530, that counts as a fix, right?
<LaserJock> ScottK: yes, non-reviewers can only comment on their own uploads
<ScottK> OK.  As long as it's on purpose and not by accident.
<ScottK> LaserJock: It might be useful to make a "MOTU Hopeful" catagory that can comment, but not upload so you MOTUs can get a feel for how they review packages.
<LaserJock> yeah, we've debated that in the past
<highvoltage> LaserJock: have you seen the new Mr Bean movie yet?
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<ScottK> The changelog for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4834 needs to be reworked since it was never uploaded.  Maybe someone would comment....
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I suggest you do. I think you'll relate well to it.
<jussi01> LaserJock, so what do i need to do? wait?
<LaserJock> I haven't watched much TV/movies lately
<highvoltage> LaserJock: Mr bean loses his wallet in Paris, close to where you lost yours!
<LaserJock> makes the upcoming Golden Ponies a bit more difficult
<LaserJock> highvoltage: haha, I'll have to get it
<LaserJock> jussi01: I'm syncing the keyring now, I'll let you know when it's ready
<jussi01> LaserJock, thanks a lot!!
<jussi01> :D
<Hobbsee> yay, ponies!
<LaserJock> yes, yes, it's time for a pony fix soon
<jussi01> ponies?
<LaserJock> ScottK: I don't think less cryptic error messages count as a fix there
<highvoltage> yes, pink ponies.
<LaserJock> nah, it's all about the Golden Ponies ;-)
<jussi01> golden ponies? pinkponies? what are you on?
<gouki> heheh
<LaserJock> PONIES!
* Hobbsee hands jussi01 the crack pipe
<jussi01> :P
* ScottK was kidding about the error messages...
<Hobbsee> this.  it's great stuff.  :D
<ScottK> But not the changelog comments...
* Hobbsee --> bed.  night all!
<jussi01> nihgt Hobbsee 
<ScottK> Good night Hobbsee
<highvoltage> goodnight hoora_ 
<LaserJock> jussi01: http://laserjock.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/the-golden-ponies/
<highvoltage> hoora_: sorry, meant to say hobbsee
<jussi01> LaserJock, :D:D:D:D
<LaserJock> ScottK: I don't think it necessarily has to be changed
<ScottK> No?
<ScottK> OK.
<LaserJock> well, the changelog really only tells you what the target release was when that version was made
<LaserJock> not that it actually made it into that release
<ScottK> Makes sense.
<ScottK> Of course if I could comment, I could pimp my get it into Debian (which isn't frozen at the moment) wiki page... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam
<LaserJock> I would, however, recommend squeezing it down to ubuntu1
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, pastebin the text you want and I'll post it
<jussi01> is there a tool that allows wsiwyg editing of wikipages?
<LaserJock> not that I know of
<LaserJock> newer versions of Moin have a wysiwyg editor
<LaserJock> but ours doesn't
<ScottK> LaserJock: Something like this maybe http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16279/
<LaserJock> ScottK: done
<jussi01> LaserJock, I propose http://www.gocollect.com/images/PaintedPonies/200/12344.jpg for the golden pony award! :P
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks.
<LaserJock> jussi01: that is pretty good
<jussi01> :D
<jussi01> LaserJock, how is the sync going?
<LaserJock> jussi01: oh sorry, I forgot about it
<jussi01> heh...
<LaserJock> ok, should be ready to try again
<jussi01> ok
<LaserJock> I cleared out your other package
<jussi01> ok
<jussi01> LaserJock, I tried again, is it now in the que?
<jussi01> yay its there :D
<LaserJock> ok, just waiting for planet to sync :-)
* sacater is doing korean translations :D
<zul> hey laserjock
<jussi01> LaserJock, any chance you could have a look at and give me some feed back on that package?
<jussi01> grr, why doesnt my apache2 work...
<ScottK> jussi01: What's the link on REVU?  I
<ScottK> I'll have a look
* ScottK is not a MOTU, but might have something useful to add.
<jussi01> ScottK, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4835
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> You'll need to change the release to gutsy in changelog
* LaserJock points to Planet
<ScottK> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField for what you need to do with Maintainer in control.
<jussi01> ScottK, yeah, I know, it complained though
<ScottK> Don't worry.
<ScottK> It'll get over it.
<ScottK> Why priority extra?
<ScottK> The long description should not all be one long line. It should have hard carriage returns and no line over 80 chars
<ScottK> In debian/copyright you should (but are not actually required to) have a statement at the bottom about the copyright of the Debian packaging (you as copyright holder).
<ScottK> Nevermind on that last one.
<ScottK> I misread.
<jussi01> lol
<ScottK> For copyright you want to have the GPL header, the ref to /usr/share/common-licensese, and then the debian copyright bit.
<ScottK> I'm not sure you need debian/dirs.  Not sure you don't.
<jussi01> ok
<ScottK> That's all I got.
<ScottK> Why priority extra and not optional?
<jussi01> excellent!! :D
<jussi01> ScottK, priority extra cause it was the default...
<ScottK> Ah.  Unless you are depending on something that is in extra, it can be optional.
<LaserJock> jussi01: you might want to check up on the Debian policy about that :-)
<jussi01> ok
<ScottK> What LaserJock said...
<LaserJock> jussi01: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-priorities
* jussi01 looks
<sharms> LaserJock: woo desktop screenshot!
<LaserJock> sharms: just for you ;-)
<jussi01> dholbach, ping?
<dqdev> hello all
<jussi01> dqdev, hi
<jussi01> dqdev,  wb
<dholbach> jussi01: pong
<dqdev> ping
<jussi01> dholbach, could you have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4835
<jussi01> dholbach, my newest backup
<jussi01> grr, package...
<jussi01> im backing up right now...
<jussi01> mind wonders..
<dholbach> jussi01: i'm quite busy and will call it a day in a bit
<dholbach> can you drop me a mail with the link to the package?
<jussi01> dholbach, ok, sure
<dholbach> so I'll look at it soon
<dholbach> but not now
<dholbach> ok super
<jussi01> dholbach, on you ubuntu acount
<jussi01> :D
<dholbach> dholbach at ubuntu dot com
<jussi01> dholbach, its there already...
<dholbach> ok great
<jussi01> ie. daniel dot holbach at ubuntu dot com
<jussi01> dholbach, that will get to you?
<dholbach> that's fine too
<jussi01> good :D
<LaserJock> dholbach: I added Behind MOTU to planet, if you hadn't noticed
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> yeah I just noticed it
<pochu> LaserJock: what about what you said yesterday? :)
<LaserJock> what did I say yesterday?
* LaserJock is an absent minded science grad student ;-)
<pochu> <LaserJock>     well, we are trying to not have any non-personal  blogs on planet so I don't want to add to the problem
<pochu> That's it ;)
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> well, I decided that since the whole point of the blog is people
<LaserJock> and that I can keep the noise down (only 1 post / week or so)
<LaserJock> that I won't be adding to the problem
<pochu> Note that I don't care you've added it. That means one less feed :)
<LaserJock> if people complain about it I'm happy to remove it, but I think it'll be alright
<pochu> I prefer it there :)
<LaserJock> I think the subject matter justifies it :-)
<pochu> <pochu> LaserJock: lol :) Can you add behindmotu to the planet? It's really interesting
<pochu> :)
<pochu> I think the planet should have more Ubuntu-related posts
<LaserJock> ah, I forgot that was you
<pochu> Or even better... less non-related posts :)
<LaserJock> well, it's a tough thing, IMO
<LaserJock> is Planet supposed to just aggregate the blogs of Ubuntu people
<pochu> would it be possible / a good idea to make people to add a "ubuntu" category, instead of the entire blog?
<LaserJock> or is it a tool for which we talk about Ubuntu
<LaserJock> pochu: that's what I do
* pochu doesn't know
<pochu> That's the best thing, IMHO :)
<LaserJock> opps, gotta run
<LaserJock> time to proctor an exam
<pochu> Laser_away: have fun!
<pochu> :)
<bddebian> Did he say he has a proctology exam? :-)
* ScottK doesn't want to know
<steven_B> I have a few questions about package names and putting them in Universe.
<bddebian> steven_B: Shoot
<steven_B> Myself and some others are working on reviving the planetpenguin racer project.
<bddebian> Cool
<steven_B> Is it ok to continue using the planetpengin-racer name in Ubuntu?
<geser> is it an update version of the current packages?
<bddebian> Hrm.  Are you forking or helping with the existing package?
<steven_B> the existing project seems to be dead.
<bddebian> If you are creating a new package based on their codebase, you should call it something else
<ScottK> Find someone from the old project and get them to say they pass the project to you...
<bddebian> Unless the current author gives you rights to the "project"
<steven_B> ok.
<steven_B> when do packages have to be ready to go into feisty +1?
<ScottK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<steven_B> also, should I submit the package(s) to Ubuntu, Debian, or both?
<geser> somewhen after the archive is open and before NewPackageFreeze
<geser> if you can get them into Debian than go this way and file sync request then
<ScottK> If you can get it into Debian, that would be a good thing.
<ScottK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/
<YokoZar> hmm
<YokoZar> I just became an Ubuntu member, but am getting "This nickname is owned by someone else" 
<YokoZar> I don't remember putting a password on it
<pochu> YokoZar: do you mean in the irc?
<YokoZar> Yeah
<steven_B> thanks for the links - so I would submit it to both Debian and Ubuntu near the same time?
<pochu> YokoZar: try /ns info YokoZar
<YokoZar> /ns info YokoZar
<pochu> YokoZar: it was registered 2 years ago
<YokoZar> err that shouldn't output as text...
<YokoZar> Well hell, maybe I did
<pochu> YokoZar: I think by yourself ;) (scott, right?)
<YokoZar> Yeah :)
<ScottK> I haven't logged of and back in since I became a member, so I don't know.
<somerville32> ScottK, Did you become a member yesterday?
<ScottK> Yes
<sacater> lucky
<sacater> ive got to wait 2 months :P
<sacater> and keep up my devotion :P
<sacater> which is easy!
<somerville32> ScottK, Awesome. I had to leave after I finished with my item on the agenda but I made sure to let them know my +1
<ScottK> Thanks.  Thanks for your support.
<somerville32> np - You deserve it.
<ScottK> Laser_away: From the svn commit log of the Debian Python Modules Team - * r2123 /packages/pylirc/ (11 files in 5 dirs): Initial release for pylirc Thanks!
<superm1> whats the stance on creating a DEBIAN/copyright for an artwork package?
<superm1> with undefined licensing?
<ScottK> superm1: If it's not licensed or clearly public domain, then it's not distributable.
<ajmitch> morning
<ScottK> Morning
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<superm1> ScottK, well they are listed across on a wiki page for explicit redistribution, but just no license associated
<superm1> so clearly public domain
<ScottK> What's the page?
<superm1> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Themes
<ajmitch> geser: famous again, I see
<superm1> i'm doing the user contributed themes into a mythtv-themes-unofficial
<superm1> or at least some of them
<superm1> and i know the Syth-* themes are GPL by the license with them.  blootube i know is GPL ( just contacted author to verify)
<superm1> but the others i'm not positive about
<ScottK> superm1: I don't see anything that gives you permission to copy those.
<superm1> ScottK, is explicit permission from the author sufficient then?
<ScottK> That's ultimately up to the archive admins.
<superm1> well i'll have some emails to shoot off then :)
<jmg> ScottK: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myththemes/COPYING
<superm1> jmg, those are the official ones.
<superm1> jmg, the "User Contributed" section below are the ones in question
<jmg> there's no link to download the User Contributed themes there
<superm1> on the link i posted above to the wiki page (not from svn)
<jmg> except for Retro, which has a link to an external site that explicity says Released under the GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE.
<jmg> (http://www.aldorf.no/mythtv/)
<superm1> jmg, we already have a package including Retro.  
<ScottK> jmg: Ones with solid links to licensing info like that are much better licensing wise than just an e-mail from the author.
<superm1> the new package would include the Syth* Elkin-wide, MythTV Media Center, blootube*,Isthmusblue, 
<jmg> i think it would be acceptable to have a third party .deb, but unless explicitly licensed by the author it cant be included in the archive
<ScottK> jmg: Sorry, pointed at the wrong person.
<superm1> ScottK, i'll contact the authors and see the licensing.  If they say GPL, i'll ask to add GPL blurbs to their sites
<superm1> anything non-gpl, i'll just leave out
<jmg> http://lifeisnostorybook.com/node/143 is gpl
<ScottK> superm1: The way I think about it is every time the archive admins put something in that's not clearly licensed, they are risking Ubuntu.  The clearer you can get it, the lower the risk.
<superm1> ScottK, thats a very good way to think about it
#ubuntu-motu 2007-04-19
<Laser_away> I wonder if this is right:
<Laser_away> http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/biographies/en/msd_computers?c=us&l=en&s=corp
<Fujitsu> Laser_away: Wow, hadn't seen that before.
<Fujitsu> I doubt it.
<ajmitch> what's so unusual?
<shawarma> He's running Feisty.
<ajmitch> so?
<ajmitch> isn't everyone?
<shawarma> Not much, I guess. I just suppose that's the reason it was interesting?
<shawarma> *G*
<ajmitch> what worried me was automatix
<shawarma> Oh, dear. I didn't notice.
<shawarma> The window was just small enough not to show it.
<jmg> does he really play games?
<jmg> and run mce on his notebook?
<jmg> note he doesnt run vista at all :)
<ScottK> Lutin: About Bug #107584, the -0ubuntu4 update isn't published for i386.
<ubotu> Malone bug 107584 in cinepaint "[apport]  whirlpinch.py crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107584
<Lutin> ScottK: oh, really ?
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+package/cinepaint
<ScottK> Look at the published as versions
<Lutin> oh, you're right. why is that N
<Lutin> s/N/?
<ScottK> The gimp-python dependeny is listed for the one arch that got ubuntu4, so it is "Fixed".
<ScottK> It looks like not everything made it out to be published before the freeze.  Dunno what to do about that...
<Lutin> I guess there's nothing to do but wait and poke mithrandir ^^
<ScottK> Have at it.
<ajmitch> I think you'll get the response of "we're *really* frozen"
<ajmitch> some stuff was accepted & then backed out
<ScottK> ajmitch: OK, so pick a version that was the last one published.  I don't think we can have it ubuntu3 for some and ubuntu4 for others, can we?
<ScottK> Not urgent, but maybe stuff unthaws a little next week?
* ajmitch shrugs
<Lutin> ajmitch: that'd be weird, -4 got accepted for amd64
<ajmitch> Lutin: amd64 buildd is fast :)
<Lutin> lol
<Lutin> all the others arch have been built the same day
<ajmitch> so maybe the publisher was turned off while stuff was still building
<Lutin> sigh
<Lutin> ajmitch: do you know when the publisher's been turned off ? the packages have been built 2 days ago
<Fujitsu> Publisher has likely been on manual for a number of days.
<Fujitsu> It was for RC preparation, and that never really finished.
<Laser_away> wahoo
* Laser_away is the laser induced fluorescence king!
* Fujitsu fluroesces.
<Fujitsu> *fluoroesces
<Fujitsu> *fluoresces
<Fujitsu> I rarely have cause to spell that :P
<Lutin> Fujitsu: ok :/
<Fujitsu> I'd think you would be able to convince somebody to get it through at some point.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: some point would be ? some time after feisty gets released ?
<Fujitsu> Not sure. You'll have to ask Mithrandir.
<Lutin> ok
<Lutin> well, thanks for your help. good night guys :)
<Fujitsu> Night Lutin.
<ajmitch> hey Laser_away :)
<ajmitch> Laser_away: we needs more 'behind motu' 
<pochu> ajmitch wants to be famous too? :p
<ajmitch> pochu: nah I
<ajmitch> I'm not an active MOTU
* ajmitch just lurks on irc
<Laser_away> well, I'm trying to be low noise
<pochu> we want a LOT OF NOISE! :)
<ajmitch> pfft
<ajmitch> as if you could be
<jmg> have we got any bugs submitted by mr dell?
<Laser_away> jmg: what? Feisty has no bugs ;-)
<jmg> Laser_away: can i quote you on that in 2 months time? :P
<ajmitch> lunch time...
<jmg> i concur with ajmitch
<wondering> How big is the default Ubuntu command line only installation (*not* the command line installation housing CD - the alternate CD, but the installation itself - how much space does it take up?)
<Burgwork> wondering: the server install, which is the barebones, is about 200mb, if I remember correctly
<bddebian> Heya gang
<wondering> Burgwork: Would you happen to know how to install that from a non-Ubuntu or even a non-Debian based distribution?
<Burgwork> nope
<Burgwork> netinst isn't hard, however
<wondering> Burgwork: I've got a LiveCD I'm working on that won't have any networking support and will install a minimal Ubuntu installation.
<wondering> Burgwork: It isn't hard, but on a lab of 20+ machines, it lags.
<Burgwork> why not use LTSP?
<shawarma> I remember seeing a "debian takeover" script once. It moved the current OS out of the way and installed a Debian system instead.
<shawarma> Allegedly it even worked on exotic systems like HP-UX..
<wondering> Well, I'm not even sure how to go about doing it. I have a Gentoo based CD working already.
<wondering> I just need to get it to install Ubuntu packages.
<shawarma> Isn't dpkg in portage?
<wondering> shawarma: What would I need to do to get it to work beyond that?
<shawarma> wondering: Depends on what you exactly want to do. If you just want to install Ubuntu packages, you don't really need much else. If you want it to interact with Gentoo's dependency handling magic, I have no idea.
<wondering> shawarma: No, I mean if the Ubuntu developers already dealt with all the interdependency junk (which I know you all spend a *long* time doing thankfully :D), it should just work with dpkg right?
<shawarma> wondering: Off the top of my head, yes. 
<shawarma> wondering: It *is* 3 AM here, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt.
<wondering> shawarma: Although, if I have it on the LiveCD, how do I tell dpkg to install to say /mnt/ubuntu/ or something?
<plugwash> to build a new system you really need debootstrap
<plugwash> you might want to check if gentoo has that availible too
<wondering> plugwash: It does.
<wondering> plugwash: I'll look more into debootstrap before I bother anyone any further.
<wondering> Thanks a bunch everyone.
<plugwash> you might have to modify its data files slightly to make it install ubunut instead of debian
<plugwash> once you have debootstrapped you can then mount proc under the installation and then use chroot to run apt-get/aptitude inside the new installation
<wondering> plugwash: Okay, I'll look into it further.
<plugwash> why are you making a gentoo livecd that installs ubuntu anyway
<plugwash> that seems a bit of a strange thing to do
* ajmitch returns
<wondering> plugwash: I like Gentoo, but I'm install Ubuntu (which I also like). I've also never made my own LiveCD before, so Gentoo makes it really easy (paradox?) to get a simple (haha, yeah right?) CD setup.
<wondering> I'm installing*
<RAOF> Isn't there the Reconstructor project, which is pretty much about making your own customised Ubuntu livecds?
<wondering> Also, I already made the LiveCD base so far, so I'd hate myself if I didn't use this piece of crap now :\
<grayman> heh
<wondering> Yeah, I guess I'll look more into Reconstructor however much though I don't like it.
<grayman> well
<grayman> atleast you can be extensivly proud at yourself when your "piece of crap" will work
<wondering> Hmm, I run sudo python /usr/share/reconstructor/reconstructor.py and it outputs this: ImportError: No module named Reconstructor.PackageHelper
<wondering> How would I fix that? I can hack the code, but then that means that's a bug.
<shawarma> Likely there's something in /usr/bin that you're supposed to call instead that will take care of setting a proper python path.
<wondering> shawarma: Well, /usr/bin/env python is the real way to do it but the documentation says otherwise
<wondering> shawarma: Either way, it still comes up with that same error.
<wondering> If I run sudo /usr/share/reconstructor/reconstructor.py it still fails
<micahcowan> Could somebody give me an example of a programming-language package that needs to bootstrap itself (that is, is written in... itself)? Like gcc, except I need something that's not in build-essential.
<jmg> hmm
<jmg> im thinking erlang
<jmg> but it aint
<micahcowan> Is one of the haskell implementations written in haskell, perhaps?
<RAOF> Possibly mono-gmcs?  I'm pretty sure that's written in C#
<wondering> Is that even possible?
<jmg> wondering: most low level compilers bootstrap themselves
<jmg> micahcowan: pypy? :)
<RAOF> :)
<micahcowan> jmg, omg, right: is that a package?
<micahcowan> !info pypy
<ubotu> Package pypy does not exist in edgy, edgy-backports, edgy-seveas
<RAOF> pypy isn't actually released, is it?
<micahcowan> Hm, good point.
<jmg> its wnpp
<micahcowan> wondering, it basically just means you have to install the software by hand first in order to produce the binaries... but obviously this is the case for gcc.
<jmg> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=326892
<ubotu> Debian bug 326892 in wnpp "ITP: pypy -- python interpreter implemented in python" [Wishlist,Closed]  
<wondering> micahcowan: Ah, I thought you all meant *real* bootstrapping.
<wondering> I was thinking... binary at that point.
<jmg> We are proud to release PyPy 1.0.0, our sixth public release (Download).
<micahcowan> wondering, how is that not real bootstrapping?
<RAOF> Oooh.  Awesome.
<micahcowan> Awesomeness!
<ajmitch> micahcowan: you're probably thinking of ghc
<wondering> Hmm, the deb just sucks then. The .tar.gz works fine.
<micahcowan> ajmitch, RAOF, thanks, I'll check that out.
<micahcowan> That's a haskell implementation, yes?
<ajmitch> yes
<jmg> glasgow haskell compiler
<micahcowan> tvm
<micahcowan> Hi Laser
<LaserJock> evening ajmitch 
<LaserJock> hi micahcowan 
<micahcowan> I'm one step closer to MOTU now :)
* micahcowan caresses his shiny new freenode cloak
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock 
<jmg> micahcowan: get a room
<micahcowan> Hey, I specifically avoided the term "fondle"... :)
<Jucato> hi LaserJock :)
<ScottK> micahcowan: Did you have to do anything to get the cloak set up?
<wondering> ScottK: Oooh, I was peering at your /whois ... Verizon FIOS? Do you mind me asking where you live (as in city, state) ?
<ScottK> Ellicott City, MD
<ScottK> USA
<micahcowan> ScottK, yes. (1) follow the instructions on the freenode FAQ for preparing for a cloak (you may have already done that: it's stuff like registering with nickserv, and associating an email); and (2)... bug Sev about it :)
<wondering> Ah, that's cool.
* wondering is going to move to MD at the soonest chance :)
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> micahcowan: Thanks.
<micahcowan> ScottK, how close to Baltimore is that? (My brother lives in Baltimore County).
<ScottK> wondering: Where in MD?
<ScottK> It's a suburb.
<micahcowan> Cool. :)
<ScottK> The closest Wal Mart is in Baltimore County.
<LaserJock> hi Jucato, did you see my comment on your blog?
<jmg> ScottK: awesome
<Jucato> LaserJock: yes. thank you :)
<wondering> wtf...
<wondering> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-kde/+bug/64695 -> Why is this a KDE bug again?
<ubotu> Malone bug 64695 in kdebase "KDE logout dialog is missing shutdown and restart options" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<wondering> It *was* a GDM bug last I checked.
<Jucato> it's a normal behavior if you used GDM to start KDE afaik
<Jucato> (and I think the reveresed behavior is true when using KDM to start GNOME)
<ajmitch> obviously the gdm maintainer thinks otherwise :)
<wondering> Jucato: No, it worked in Edgy.
<Jucato> ah hm.... so it's just GDM?
<wondering> Yes.
<wondering> It worked in Edgy. It doesn't in Feisty. Apparently it *won't* work in Feisty by release day (tomorrow) because it would involve a lot of work (Launchpad is probably pressing CDs as we speak)
* plugwash wonders if feisty CDs will be free or not
<wondering> plugwash: Well, shipit.ubuntu.com, etc. say they are giving out free CDs.
<wondering> plugwash: I ordered my Feisty CDs about 2 weeks ago (even though they will *start* shipping tomorrow).
* LaserJock checks out debian-tex svn
<LaserJock> geeze, still checking out
<ajmitch> hm
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<LaserJock> what am I getting myself into 
<ajmitch> pain
<ajmitch> lots & lots of pain
<ScottK> But he clearly likes that.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well, not that Feisty is done
<LaserJock> Gutsy's going to take some work for TeX
<LaserJock> we should replace tetex with texlive 2007
<ScottK> So the real question is are you going to leave hobbsee out of the Golden Pony awards again?
<ScottK> That'll tell us how much you like pain.
<ajmitch> of course he won't
<ajmitch> golden ponies will be interesting this time...
* ajmitch nominates some up & coming stars like ScottK 
<ajmitch> so when can I install gutsy?
* ScottK hides.  To much publicity lately.
<jmg> OMG PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<ajmitch> jmg: yeah calm down
<jmg> ajmitch: but but but
<jmg> PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111oneoneoen
<ajmitch> those poor people on the forums who thought that feisty would be released *exactly* at midnight GMT
<ajmitch> partly due to the fridge, of course
<ajmitch> "cricky! I've been waiting 11 minutes, I can't take it anymore, no, refresh did nothing, still not there, thats 12 minutes now?"
<LaserJock> well, I should jump on the forums and say I'm running it right now ;-)
<ajmitch> sure
* ajmitch just rsynced the latest isos again for testing
<ajmitch> "Im sad :( Why cant the ubuntu team just be on time :("
* ajmitch should stop this forums pain
<jmg> ajmitch: euthanise that member immediately
<ajmitch> most of them are probably already running feisty & have nothing to upgrade to anyway
<jmg> executive authorisation ohMai8ah
<ajmitch> don't worry, people waiting for feisty are already asking how to upgrade to gutsy
<jmg> aww they didnt use my name for feisty +1
<jmg> :(
<ajmitch> of course not
<LaserJock> still checking out
<LaserJock> ...
<ajmitch> still rsyncing i386...
* bluefoxicy wonders why i486 compiled software is labeled i386 ... cmpxchg doesn't work on i386
<bluefoxicy> although I'm bored and hoping someone opens their mouth demanding Ubuntu-i686 again some time so I can debate with them
<plugwash> bluefoxicy because thats how the 32 bit intel architecture has always been know 
<plugwash> just as the 64 bit architecture is known as amd64 despite the fact intel probablly sells more chips that run it than amd nowadays
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> "Is there anyone we can just call and ask when it will be out? Maybe someone has Mark Shuttleworth's home number?"
<jdong> ajmitch: don't tell me that came from the forums :)
<LaserJock> it did
<ajmitch> jdong: damn right it did
<jdong> lol
<jdong> lovely.
<ScottK> Good night everyone.
<LaserJock> it's like they think Mark's sitting there with the .isos just teasing people
<jmg> the unwashed masses
<LaserJock> waiting for some magic hour
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's not far from the truth
<ajmitch> except that the teasing is generally what we call 'testing'
<LaserJock> exactly
<ajmitch> and making sure that there are no last minute regressions
<ajmitch> night ScottK 
<LaserJock> ajmitch: my goodness, my checkout is up to 1.4GB
<ajmitch> that's small
<LaserJock> well darn, I was hoping they used CDBS ;-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :P
<LaserJock> 1.8GB
<LaserJock> no wonder nobody wants to touch this stuff
<joejaxx> LaserJock: you are welcome btw (ref: planet)
<joejaxx> :)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: :-)
<joejaxx> soon it will be time to start the GG  stats when the repos opens
* ajmitch will see if he can get into double figures this time
<LaserJock> should be easy :-)
<bddebian> GG stats?
<ajmitch> yeah, it may take me a few months
<joejaxx> bddebian: yeah
<joejaxx> bddebian: the current ones are for feisty
<bddebian> WTF is a GG stat?
<joejaxx> gusty gibbon
* ajmitch wonders why some people overuse "WTF"
<joejaxx> what about FTW ?
<joejaxx> :)
* bddebian wonders WTF ajmitch is talking about
<joejaxx> lool
<jmg> gloomy goldfish
<jmg> !!!!!!!!!
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i should probably keep the stats for past releases too
<LaserJock> yeah
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i could generate them for pre feisty as well
<LaserJock> can you keep an archive of the full results?
<LaserJock> not just top 10
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> we'd actually like keep track of active MOTUs
<joejaxx> oh ok i can do that
<LaserJock> that's one indication
<LaserJock> the packages one is interesting too
<joejaxx> that is what i found most interesting
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I'd fall so far off the bottom it'd hurt
<LaserJock> ajmitch: me too :(
<LaserJock> but we still need the info
* ajmitch has still been hacking on some stuff lately, just not lots of package uploads
<bddebian> stats on what??
<LaserJock> yep, that's why I said it was one indication
<LaserJock> bddebian: # of uploads
<joejaxx> bddebian: ubuntu.joejaxx.org
<ajmitch> LaserJock: once gutsy opens I should be able to get some new stuff in
<joejaxx> if there are anything else that you all want stats generated for just tell :)
<bddebian> Hey no fair counting the main guys ;-P
<joejaxx> lol
<ajmitch> bddebian: who counts as a 'main guy'?
<jmg> someone who works on main?
<ajmitch> we have people who work on both
<LaserJock> I think what bddebian meant was people who are paid to upload
<bddebian> IT WAS A JOKE for cripes sake
<joejaxx> :P
<LaserJock> what? </sarcasm>
<ajmitch> LaserJock: aren't you paid?
<crimsun> what about people who are paid not to upload? O:-)
<joejaxx> crimsun: grep -v ? :P
<ajmitch> crimsun: I could do that job!
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I got paid once
<LaserJock> and not even enough to pay for my passport to Paris
<crimsun> lj: aren't you off to Sevilla for UDS?
<LaserJock> yeah, UES and part of UDS
<LaserJock> then I get less than 24hrs before flying to my parents to be a groomsman in my little brothers wedding
<ajmitch> LaserJock, international jetsetter
<LaserJock> pffft
<ajmitch> poor fellow complaining about getting a free trip to spain
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> well, I'm pretty sure it's the last
<ajmitch> you've said that before  :)
<ajmitch> and have you managed to escape the clutches of ubuntu yet?
<LaserJock> sure ...
<ajmitch> that sounded convicning
<crimsun> what's the commitment length for Edubuntu Council members? ;)
<LaserJock> 1hr I think
<LaserJock> well, technically 2 releases
<joejaxx> LaserJock: the jetlag will be quite inconvenient :\
<LaserJock> I imagine
<LaserJock> when I got home from paris I was sick for 2 weeks
<joejaxx> man that stinks :\
<crimsun> well, regardless, you guys & gals have fun in Sevilla
<crimsun> thanks for all the great work in Ubuntu {main,restricted,universe,multiverse} thus far!
<ajmitch> crimsun: you ought to be there
<LaserJock> crimsun: well, thanks for being here
<LaserJock> really, I don't think MOTU would be anything like it is without your efforts
<jmg> crimsun will be there... in absentia
<ajmitch> no, we'd be in far worse shape
<ajmitch> jmg: it's only a small trip from NZ..
<jmg> ajmitch: a small acid trip
<ajmitch> jetlag usually isn't that bad
<LaserJock> 3.5GB
<joejaxx> what is that big?
<LaserJock> debian-tex svn
<bddebian> Egads
<LaserJock> I'm trying to do a checkout
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you'll be busy
<joejaxx> ah
<ajmitch> aren't you glad that svn doesn't have the whole history in a checkout?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I was wondering how that would work if I did a bzr branch :-)
<ajmitch> painful slow
<joejaxx> yeah
<ajmitch> it's bad enough doing bzr branch of f-spot svn
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I wonder if an archive mirror or debian-tex is bigger? :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: does that mean debian-svn have the upstream tarballs?
<LaserJock> minghua: not tarballs
<LaserJock> I think it's just the source
<minghua> oh, that's worse than tarballs (disk-space-wise)
<nixternal> LaserJock#@!!!#@ what's up buddy
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah
<LaserJock> hi nixternal 
<LaserJock> hehe, I  posted on the 44 page "Is it there yet?" thread
<nixternal> link me
<LaserJock> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2478869&postcount=428
<LaserJock> I did it 5 minutes ago and there's already another page
<nixternal> OMG
<nixternal> there are 2 more pages
<nixternal> I should do a "We are holding back from releasing it in the next few hours due to legal threats from Microsoft. Our lawyers on it at this time, please bare with us as we work through this."
<nixternal> hahahahahahaha
<gouki> hehehe
<nixternal> LaserJock: dude you are getting flamed every other second now on the forums
<bddebian> Uh oh what'd you do now? :-)
<nixternal> slashdot doesn't have a thing on our forums
<nixternal> my god they can respond
<LaserJock> nixternal: flamed?? that isn't anything
<nixternal> don't worry, I have been receiving hate mail from one of the Tux500 guys, so don't feel bad
<LaserJock> man, they've got automatic refresh programs going on
<jmg> nixternal: tux500?
<nixternal> ya, them fools that think that having Linux plastered on an Indy car is the best marketing ever
<jmg> ...
<nixternal> they want $350,000 USD within the next month
<jmg> does the car run linux?
<gouki> nixternal, really? Why on earth would they do that!?
<Jucato> wtf? 45 pages in under 2 hours... for that topic?!?!
<gouki> The hate mail, I mean.
<nixternal> gouki: retardation?
<nixternal> gouki: see above response as well :)
<gouki> Sounds about right :)
<nixternal> retardation works in both cases 1) why they would do the indy thing and 2) the hate mail
<nixternal> Jucato: you know you want to post
<Jucato> hell no. thank goodness I'm too sane right now to add to that thread :)
<jmg> they have the audacity to put LINUX POWERED on the side
<Jucato> oh 46 pages now...
<bddebian> "Screw you guys, I'm going to Gentoo".. ;-P
<Jucato> bddebian: ... and get yourself screwed as well? :P
<Jucato> (no offense meant to Gentoo-ers)
<bddebian> That was a joke son.. :-)
<Jucato> mine was too, "dad" :D
<bddebian> heh
<nixternal> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2478992&postcount=459
<nixternal> hahahahahah
<nixternal> Gentoo is weak, Slackware my child
<bddebian> LFS you sissy
<nixternal> I went back to Debian until I realised they had KDE 3.5.5 ;)
* Jucato resists the urge to post... resists...
<jmg> yggdrasil
<nixternal> bddebian: we just finished an LFS build farm at our LUG
<nixternal> 50% of the guys crashed and burned
<bddebian> heh
<nixternal> my first 2 boxes did as well, but that is what I get for messing with 64bit stuff
<jmg> sheer masochism
<bddebian> Wow, I guess if I got on the forums, I'd be cool too?
<Jucato> bddebian: no. you'd be nixternal-ish :D
* ajmitch checks the forums again for a laugh
<nixternal> my god, 2 more pages after my post
<nixternal> Jucato: you think you are funny huh ;p
<Jucato> nixternal: definitely :)
<nixternal> haha, good answer
<bddebian> Well bed time for this old man, gnight folks
<ajmitch> nixternal: the "Release in 2 hours!" thread?
<nixternal> haha ya
* Jucato goes for a quick nap as well
<ajmitch> yeah it's painful
<joejaxx> wow that is a shame 
<joejaxx> ~45 pages
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you were brave to post on the forums
<ajmitch> I at least have the cover of anonymity
<LaserJock> with a dev tag and everything ;-)
<ScottK> I could neither sleep nor help myself when it came to posting. http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2479056&postcount=475
<ScottK> Go nixternal
* Jucato should tag nixternal as dev too :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: exactly, I'm just a nobody on the forums & can post what I want ;)
<jmg> almost
<nixternal> tag your it
<nixternal> Jucato: what do you mean tag?
<jmg> dist-upgrading is never the same as a fresh install, unfort.
* ScottK will be toasted as an ignorant nebie no doubt because I only have 2 forum postings to my name.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: <quote> @laserjock - think of it as a valuable bonding time for ubuntu users everywhere. </quote>
<joejaxx> lol
<Jucato> nixternal: announce to everyone on that thread that you're a dev and they will start to annoy you with questions :)
<ScottK> Yeah. Dist-upgrading usually works better.
<nixternal> Jucato: I dare you to
<joejaxx> ScottK: :P
<nixternal> oh lord, when you respond to a forums post you get emailed for every response there after
<ajmitch> hah
<ScottK> Heh, nixternal: You
<Jucato> nixternal: you can turn it off iirc
<ajmitch> that's a good incentive not to post
<ScottK> urgh can
<ajmitch> ever
<ScottK> can't type
<Jucato> nixternal: User CP -> Edit Options -> Message & Notification
<dholbach> good morning
<ScottK> nixternal: You're a dev.  I've got Dapper installed on my desktop and I used automatix to make it really cool.  Can I upgrade straight to Feisty and where do I find the new version of automatix for Feisty???? kthxbye
<nixternal> ScottK: sure, first thing first, poor water directly to the drive where automatix was installed
<nixternal> while the system is running
<Flannel> ScottK: no.  You need to upgrade through edgy.  And actually, your Edgy upgrade is likely not to work, because of automatix.  And dont use automatix in feisty, since then you'll have the same issue upgrading to gutsy
<ScottK> Flannel: I'm kidding.  I know.
<Flannel> Oh.  Sorry.  Thought I was in #ubuntu.  w and 2 are close to each other ;)
<ScottK> I actually do have a dapper box that I used automatix on before I knew better.  I'll reinstall that one from scratch when I get some time.
<ScottK> nixternal: If I'm cross-grading from opensuse 10.1, should I do the same?
* jmg puts on his flame retardant suit
<nixternal> actually wrong, you have downgrade to breezy first, then upgrade back to dapper, you can try to upgrade to edgy at that point, but if it doesn't work, go back to warty, then add feisty to your sources and dist-upgrade, when it crashes out, insert a windows 95 cd and enjoy!
<ScottK> Cool.  I still have a couple of those.
<nixternal> heh
<LaserJock> almost to 50 pages
<nixternal> they seriously think it is going to be out in 2 hours or less?
<LaserJock> well, that was like 5-7 hrs ago
<nixternal> does it say at 07:00 UTC it will be release anywhere?
<nixternal> and do people actually wait for the release to upgrade?
<nixternal> silly them
<jmg> awww
<jmg> The Ubuntu community would like to thank you for your contributions to the Ubuntu project. In recognition of this, we offer you an expanded set of options for your ShipIt request.
<joejaxx> well it says tomorrow on the website
<jmg> thanks guys <3
<ajmitch> contributions?
<joejaxx> expanded set?
<nixternal> expanded set of options? like "sorry you have been denied?"
<nixternal> they denied Ubuntu Chicago shipits
<ajmitch> nixternal: no, you get a signed photo of sabdfl
<joejaxx> what emcompasses an expanded set?
<nixternal> thank god for those Fedora CDs that Tom "Spot" Callaway provided as a mean joke to me
<jmg> i have options for 3 and 10 cd packs
<joejaxx> jmg: ah nice :)
<ajmitch> jmg: stunning
<jmg> ajmitch: confusing
<nixternal> ajmitch: already got one :)
<ajmitch> I think the smallest you could request for warty was 10
<ScottK> The experts have spoken in response to my suggestion to dist-upgrade: "Why would that be any newer than what is already available for download? IMHO, I don't think they would release it to the repositories until its also available for download.'
<jmg> since after the great re-launchpadding, i have 0 karma
<ajmitch> nixternal: sad, sad fanboy
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> we sent Mark and Ubuntu Chicago poster we made up last year
<ajmitch> "zomg mark i wants to have your children!"
<nixternal> I can't find the pic now. probably got destroyed with some development bug like the rest of my 4gb of photos I didn't back up ;)
<nixternal> ajmitch: laugh, at school today while chatting with mark, this girl seen my ubuntu shirt and screamed "shuttleworth rocks!"
<nixternal> Mark's repsonse was classic
<joejaxx> i thought shipit was only free for dapper lts
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> joejaxx: that was for edgy
<joejaxx> ajmitch: ah
<joejaxx> ajmitch: what changed?
<nixternal> release cycle
<jmg> nixternal: a joke with no punchline is no joke at all
<nixternal> well nobody sounded interested, so I am holding the punchline
<jmg> nixternal: was the girl hot?
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> lol
<Jucato> so what was mark's response?
<jmg> nixternal: well, you could have taken a penalty shot
<nixternal> I am not telling you now, I am mad
* Jucato has been waiting for a whole minute
<nixternal> hahaha
<ajmitch> they decided to ship feisty cds
<nixternal> if you are in the bazaar channel you would see his answer
<ajmitch> 09:36 < sabdfl> art history major
<ajmitch> 09:36 < sabdfl> definitely
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> classic
<jmg> hahah
<ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.
<jmg> n1
<Jucato> :)
<Jucato> ok now that's over...
<nixternal> ###SPAM ALERT###
<nixternal> 16:36:27 [    sabdfl]  WHICH UNIVERSITY?
<nixternal> 16:36:37 [ nixternal]  College of Dummies (err DuPage) in Chicago
<nixternal> 16:36:43 [    sabdfl]  i'm in
<nixternal> 16:36:45 [ nixternal]  hahaha
<ajmitch> nixternal: I lurk there too
<nixternal> 16:36:47 [    sabdfl]  art history major
<nixternal> 16:36:50 [    sabdfl]  definitely
<nixternal> damn you ajmitch!
<nixternal> haha
<joejaxx> LOL
<Jucato> roflmao
<nixternal> ya, I made the school paper this week and pissed off the school board
<nixternal> I love when I do that
<LaserJock> nixternal is just trouble
<nixternal> that I am
<ajmitch> what did you do this time?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :P
<LaserJock> I talked to a prof today about Ubuntu
<LaserJock> he's got a laptop running Fedora
<LaserJock> he said "What do you run?"
<LaserJock> big mistake on his part ;-)
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> how long before he crawled away as a  broken man?
<LaserJock> 'course I didn't show him the OS X machine I was presently on ;-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :P
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> actually I did, because I was showing him how awesome Python was at the same time ;-)
<LaserJock> so I got in Ubuntu and Python
* joejaxx needs to learn python
<LaserJock> he said he might check it out
<jmg> LaserJock: did you quickly desktop switch to your ubuntu vm?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I have a Feisty machine on the desk next to the iMac
<nixternal> http://tinyurl.com/386etg
<nixternal> read the section on the first page "Better classes will market college"
* jmg wonders what the logic for expanded options on launchpad is
<jmg> er shipit
<joejaxx> jmg: i just looked
<nixternal> then tonight at the board meeting I got on them again for screwing over IT for the fall, and I told them they are not only killing a students education but also their creativity by forcing them to use proprietary software
<joejaxx> jmg: i think maybe you cannot request all those different methods
<jmg> joejaxx: i cant?
<jmg> :(
<joejaxx> jmg: no
<joejaxx> as in if you did not have extended options
<jmg> ah
<joejaxx> that is what i am thinking
<jmg> nixternal: i dont see "better classes will market college"
<nixternal> it isn't a PDF?
<joejaxx> is it under editorials?
<nixternal> yes
<jmg> oh the newspaper
<nixternal> you know why it did that, over 127 chars in the url I think
<nixternal> my appologies
<jmg> what page?
<nixternal> http://www.cod.edu/courier/4.13.07/EDITORIALfinal_04.13.07.pdf
<nixternal> there is the PDF, first page
<jmg> cant view the first page
<jmg> only second and subsequent
<jmg> ah
<nixternal> that is lovely
<jmg> direct link worked
<jmg> heh
<ScottK> Good for you nixternal.  Tell them like it is.
<jmg> right, time to go home
<nixternal> I have the professors and the students behind and the board against
<jmg> bye all
<ScottK> bye
<nixternal> the student president started to speak while I was, and another student told her to set down and let me finish
<nixternal> good stuff...Chicago is so corrupt at everything
<nixternal> even education, it is so sad
* ScottK remembers going to Chicago for a high school newspaper convention (a long time ago).  I asked what the drinking age was in Illinois (it varied a lot more back then) and was told "old enough to reach the counter".
<nixternal> ScottK: how old are you?
<ScottK> 44
<LaserJock> nixternal: geeze, read Behind MOTU ;-)
<joejaxx> :)
<nixternal> ahh, you got me by 11 ;)
<ScottK> Ancient in Ubuntu terms
<joejaxx> :P
<nixternal> wth is Behind MOTU?
<joejaxx> LOl
* LaserJock slaps nixternal alongside the head
<nixternal> besides LaserJock's back pocket
<joejaxx> nixternal: there is a new one on planet as we speak :P
<nixternal> I don't have time to read
<LaserJock> nixternal: behindmotu.wordpress.com
<nixternal> I have been creating graphics and release notes all day long, and then trying to get an education
<LaserJock> nixternal: you're so busy causing trouble on campus you don't have time for us mere mortals ;-)
<LaserJock> </crimsun>
<joejaxx> lol :P
<nixternal> haha, he lives in Ellicott City
<nixternal> I used to live in Georgetown, but mostly in St. Mary's County
<joejaxx> LaserJock: how is mutt working out for you?
<nixternal> stationed at Patuxent River for the last 2 years of active duty
<ScottK> nixternal: I used to live in Bowie which would be even funnier
<LaserJock> joejaxx: very well
<nixternal> eww, Bowie
* ScottK was in the US Navy too
<nixternal> my cousin just moved there
* joejaxx should setup commandline email client so he can use it with `screen`
<nixternal> I just left Maryland a couple of weeks ago
<LaserJock> joejaxx: yes, mutt+irssi+screen is working very well for me
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i think i will try it i have been using webclients 
<nixternal> I am going to move back for a little bit next year to be next to my daughter, and then it is either to Europe somewhere or Mexico on some secluded beach
<joejaxx> LaserJock: nice i think i will set that up now :)
<nixternal> I can't go back to Mutt. I tried so hard but it wouldn't work
<LaserJock> well, I've got it set up so that I can do mutt or TB or Mail.app
<LaserJock> it works rather nicely
<LaserJock> wahoo, up to 6.5GB
<LaserJock> minghua: ping
<minghua> LaserJock: yes?
* ajmitch returns to the realm of insanity
<LaserJock> minghua: what do you think about a ubuntu-tex team?
<ajmitch> sounds too much like texas
<minghua> LaserJock: if we can find enough people/time, then I'm all for it
* minghua is all for texas team, too :-)
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> AWTY?!?
<ajmitch> why isnt it out yet?!?
<ajmitch> </forums>
<joejaxx> lol that is funny
<ajmitch> lots of people demanding that next time there be an *exact* time it'll be released
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> they really feel that the devs are all sitting around drinking a beer waiting for the exact hour
<LaserJock> "not yet ..."
* ajmitch feels like doing exactly that :)
<LaserJock> "not yet ..."
<LaserJock> "ok now'
<ajmitch> you mean they're all sitting round feverishly writing up specs
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch: Translates as "it was ready three days ago, but we waited until "the time", happy now?"
<nixternal> FEISTY IS OUT!!
<Flannel> OMG!!!!!
* ajmitch kicks nixternal 
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> I want to do it in a channel so bad
<ajmitch> I don't care, current cd images are good enough
<LaserJock>  #ubuntu :-)
<nixternal> I have been using Feisty since July
<nixternal> hehe
* ajmitch feels like going & reading a book instead
<nixternal> err, October
<nixternal> wth
<nixternal> I got the dummies in ubuntu-chicago with the feisty is out
<nixternal> they are scrambling for links, and 90% of the e.tards already run it
<tonyyarusso> You're cruel.
<nixternal> yes, yes I am
<nixternal> d'oh, I have a feisty one challenging me now in there ;)
<nixternal> 01:06:33 [ nixternal]  says me, I am the release coordinator for Ubuntu
<nixternal> 
<nixternal> 01:06:52 [     makkk]  wow, nice
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> he was a pushover
<nixternal> nice break line there irssi
<ajmitch> stupid
<LaserJock> my gosh
<LaserJock> what a cruel man
<ajmitch> I didn't realise you'd  been suddenly promoted
<nixternal> he is looking for the links
<nixternal> ajmitch: me either
<nixternal> is there even a such thing?
<ajmitch> of course there is
<nixternal> that is the first thing that I could think of for someone who would know
<nixternal> haha LaserJock 
<ajmitch> he's the one who'll hit the release button
<joejaxx> Lol
<tonyyarusso> who is it for real?
<ajmitch> mithrandir
<jussi01> LaserJock, did you get a chance to look over the package i uploaded?
<joejaxx> Mithrandsomething
<tonyyarusso> righto
<ajmitch> hence why I told you to give him ops :)
<tonyyarusso> Good call
* tonyyarusso merely recognized the name as somewhat high-up, doesn't know specifics
<ajmitch> he suggested it
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+members
<ajmitch> I think tollef is handling the release details though
<LaserJock> yeah, just saying it's gotta be tollef or colin
<joejaxx> you know what i never thought about doing?
<ajmitch> so many fanboys...
<joejaxx> setting up local webemail
<ajmitch> joejaxx: getting sabdfl's autograph?
<joejaxx> a webemail client that is
<joejaxx> ajmitch: hmm? lol
<ajmitch> I know you're a fanboy
<LaserJock> I think I'm going to get banned from #ubuntu-chicago :-)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: lol
<ajmitch> LaserJock: stirring up trouble?
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> big surprise there
<LaserJock> I popped in there a couple times, give a line harrasing nixternal, and leave
<LaserJock> just to make it interesting ;-)
<joejaxx> hahaha
<ajmitch> haha
<nixternal> hahaha
<joejaxx> that is funny
<joejaxx> lol
<nixternal> he said I am the real Mark Shuttleworth or something
<nixternal> they are like "nixternal is paying him"
<ivoks> :)
<superm1> hey guys any ideas of where a list of who is hosting what sessions @ ubuntu live is?  Just saw this: http://www.ubuntulive.com/cs/ubuntu/view/e_sess/13454, and was wondering who was running this thing
<\sh> moins
<joejaxx> good morning
<joejaxx> \sh: how did that rollout go?
<imbrandon> wtf, ok i have two boxes, both with the same sources.list ( edgt, default , with multiverse and universe )
<imbrandon> and one cant find wine the other cane
<imbrandon> in universe
<imbrandon> ideas?
<ScottK> Both pointing at the same mirror?
<imbrandon> yea
<Flannel> imbrandon: did you update the package cache?
<imbrandon> as in apt-get update ? , yes
<imbrandon> nevermind i just figured it out
<highvoltage> I'm stuck with a problem with dpkg-divert, hope someone in mOTU can help me out...
<\sh> joejaxx: my servers? finished and already in production :)
<joejaxx> \sh: nice :)
<highvoltage> I get the following message when trying to remove a divert:
<highvoltage> I get the following message when trying to remove a divert:Removing `diversion of /etc/dot.bashrc to /etc/dot.bashrc.orig by base-files-update'
<highvoltage> dpkg-divert: rename involves overwriting `/etc/dot.bashrc' with different file `/etc/dot.bashrc.orig', not allowed
<BugMaN> hi \sh! ;-)
<highvoltage> the above happens in the postrm of the package
<ScottK> imbrandon: What was it?
<jack_deltrino> If I make changes to /etc/cups/cupsd.conf without having cupsys installed and I then ran apt-get install cupsys, would it overwrite files? If it prompted me is there a way to default to it using the configuration file I wrote? Also, is there a way to accept installations of all packages but deny all configuration file overrides?
<ScottK> By default the package management system will not touch config files you've changed.
<ScottK> If it does, it's a bug.
<jack_deltrino> Perfect.
<ScottK> If there's an issue, it should ask you.
<jack_deltrino> Right, that's what I was asking, is there a way to force it to one default behavior regardless?
<ScottK> There are ways to force the package management system to do stuff.  Normally it's not a good idea.
<jack_deltrino> ScottK: Why is that?
<ScottK> Because if it asks you a question, it's a good idea to actually answer it rather than force one answer or another.
<jack_deltrino> ScottK: I know exactly what I want replicated and so that's what I want replicated. I don't want the package management system to tell me that I need to wipe all my configuration options off. I would normally agree with you, but this particular situation is one in which I have total control over the system and I know exactly what I want to do.
<jack_deltrino> what I want it to do*
<ScottK> There may be a system change that requires a new setting in the new version.  If you blindly keep the old, you could be in trouble.
<ScottK> OK. man apt-get should tell you what you need to know then
* ScottK is going to bed (again).
<jack_deltrino> Well, I know there's a -y option, but I want to make sure it does it the way I explained. I'll double check it before bothering you though.
<LoneWolfSM>  /msg nickserv link smm wyggle
* ScottK was serious when I said I was going to bed.  Also, this isn't a support channel.  Try #ubuntu
<ScottK> LoneWolfSM: You'll want to pick a different password now.
<LoneWolfSM> thanks :)
<LoneWolfSM> how?
<ScottK> LoneWolfSM: Try that on the freenode tab
<LoneWolfSM> <-- sort of noob
<ScottK> Look in the freenode FAQ.
* ScottK was going to bed.
<ScottK> really
<jack_deltrino> Heh.
<jack_deltrino> By the way, I don't think apt-get does that.
<jack_deltrino> It only does yes or no. Not both in two separate ways as I specified.
<\sh> jack_deltrino: what do you want exactly
<jack_deltrino> \sh: I'll repeat it, tell me if anything is unclear specifically.
<jack_deltrino> If I make changes to /etc/cups/cupsd.conf without having cupsys installed and I then ran apt-get install cupsys, would it overwrite files? If it prompted me is there a way to default to it using the configuration file I wrote? Also, is there a way to accept installations of all packages but deny all configuration file overrides?
<\sh> jack_deltrino: man apt.conf ; There is an "Assume-Yes" option which can be "true" or "false". False means normally, don't override configs you've changed by package default config
<Jucato> um just a quick question. what happened to nvu in feisty?
<jack_deltrino> \sh: That's not all I wasn't asking though. I want it to assume *yes* for all package installations, but *no* for configuration file updates.
<jack_deltrino> \sh: It's twofold and so far everyone has been telling me to look into the equivalent of -y or --assume-yes.
<\sh> jack_deltrino: because that is what you want...installing the binaries of a package has nothing to do with the configuration...assume yes is always for configuration files.
<\sh> jack_deltrino: please do a man apt-get and man apt.conf
<jack_deltrino> So both -y and Assume-Yes=false does it?
<\sh> -y means overwrite all configs with the package defaults, Assume-Yes=false means don't overwrite the configs you've touched with the default package configuration files
* \sh 's doing some rollouts again...bbl
<jack_deltrino> ... That's *not* what I've been asking
<jack_deltrino> I need both yes for package installations and no for configuration files.
<geser> Jucato: nvu was removed because it is unmaintained upstream, kompozer is the successor of nvu (but not yet in Ubuntu)
<Jucato> geser: oh thanks (sorry, was afk)
<crimsun> happy release day, folks. (off to catch a flight)
<\sh> hmmm.songbird is not in ubuntu? 
<\sh> ajmitch: first wave updated
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I can't be bothered with this release mess & hype
<ajmitch> I feel like going off to sleep :)
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> it's just a release, that's all ,-)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> it just means no updates on my box for a few days
<\sh> ajmitch: 456 servers updated .-.I'm done...and it's working :)
<imbrandon> guess i need to update/upgrade all my servers too today
<imbrandon> lol ajmitch 
<ajmitch> imbrandon: why?
<imbrandon> the ones running edgy ( not dapper ones )
<ajmitch> I'd wait a week or so
* ajmitch still has sarge boxes to upgrade
<imbrandon> that and to get the final kernel etc on the buildd's
<imbrandon> yea i might wait a few days
<imbrandon> but i'm off the next 3 ( after 12 noon today ) so i would kinda like to do it while i'm off
<imbrandon> incase something breaks
<ajmitch> all these people rushing to upgrade
<ajmitch> madness
<gouki>  #ubuntu-release-party
<gouki> Sorry!
<v4m21> hey people where can I download ubuntu studio ?
<pochu> http://ubuntustudio.org/
<v4m21> Yeah, Know that, is there any alpha or beta release of it ?
<pochu> no idea :)
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<pochu> hi DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> pochu: Hi :)
<tiCo89> Who is the account manager in ubuntu?
<jsgotangco> account manager?
<ajmitch> explain
<tiCo89> the guy who adds people to the keyring on ftp-master ;)
<pochu> maybe mail accounts? :)
* Fujitsu gets a drill and inserts some sanity into some people in #ubuntu-release-party.
<pochu> tiCo89: ftpmaster@ubuntu.com
<Fujitsu> tiCo89: We're not Debian.
<jsgotangco> Fujitsu: you know its that time of the year when people go crazy about a distro's supposed release day
<StevenK> pochu: I doubt that even works.
<pochu> oh
<ajmitch> tiCo89: it's controlled by launchpad
<ajmitch> ultimately the tech board
<pochu> StevenK: it was @debian, then ;)
<Fujitsu> OMG XUBUNTU CDS ARE OUT SO IT'S DEFINITELY FINAL THERE'S NO OTHER POSSIBILITY PONIEZ
<tiCo89> Fujitsu: Hmmm look - I generally don't use Ubuntu but when I anyway maintain several packages in Debian I could upload them to Ubuntu as well
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: *stab*
<tiCo89> but I don't like to search sponsors
* Fujitsu dies.
<jsgotangco> i didn't notice there's now an army of ops in that channel lol
<StevenK> VRFY ftpmaster@ubuntu.com
<StevenK> 550 <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
<pochu> tiCo89: you can request syncs
<pochu> tiCo89: no need to upload if they're in debian
<StevenK> pochu: So nyah
<Fujitsu> tiCo89: You'll have to go through the MOTU Council to get upload rights. Otherwise, use our (hopefully close to optimal) sponsorship process.
<pochu> StevenK: nice to know, ty :)
<tiCo89> pochu: is this done automatically?
<pochu> tiCo89: yeah, at the beggining of the cicle, afaik
<StevenK> cycle has a Y
<StevenK> And no I
<pochu> tiCo89: and later you can request it reporting a bug
* pochu is learning :)
<pochu> StevenK: do you want to mentor me with my English? :-)
<StevenK> pochu: My English is probably worse. :-P
* pochu doubts it
<tiCo89> pochu: nice... is there something like a "developers reference" or just those weird wikipages?
<pochu> we can mentor each one :p
<pochu> weird?
<pochu> !sync | tiCo89 
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sync - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<StevenK> tiCo89: I can't recall an Ubuntu developers ref.
<siretart> tiCo89: I believe we had a special process for fast-tracking DDs in the past. We have redesigned that process several times, now you need to convince the Motu Council (and optionally other MOTUs) that giving you upload rights was a good idea. that's the current process 
<StevenK> I'd suggest you hang around for a bit first and see how things work.
<StevenK> When we aren't 24 hours away from release. :-)
<siretart> tiCo89: there indeed was an efford to create an 'ubuntu developers reference', I'm not sure if it was finished, though
<tiCo89> siretart: ah, k, I'm not a DD anyway, still waiting for DAM
<siretart> tiCo89: basically it was based on the debian developers reference, with all debian specific parts replaced by ubuntu ones.
<StevenK> And then there's the processes that Ubuntu has and Debian doesn't
<siretart> tiCo89: generally, we ubuntu dudes use wikis do document our processes. and we irc a lot
<tiCo89> hmm okey
<tiCo89> but thats more efford to stay up2date :-/
<tiCo89> anyway, I go to work now...
* ajmitch wanders off for sleep
<ajmitch> night all
<pochu> night ajmitch
<RAOF> I've probably been trying at the wrong times, but does ftp.debian.org *ever* work?
<ScottK> RAOF: What are you trying to do?
* RAOF is setting up a Sid chroot, so Specto can go upstream.
<RAOF> Bootstrap sid, so I can make real debian packages :)
<ScottK> Can you just pick a different mirror?
<RAOF> Yes, that's what I've done.  The .au mirror doesn't choke on "Retrieving Release" :)
<ScottK> deb ftp://debian.mirrors.pair.com/ unstable main contrib non-free always works well for me.
<RAOF> Is that a round-robin mirror set or something?
<ScottK> IIRC, in answer to your actual question, I've used it before and it has worked for me.
<RAOF> Hm, amazingly enough there's no "restricted" section in Debian :(
<ScottK> No
<ScottK> Just non-free
<RAOF> I should flag my sarcasm more obviously :)
<ScottK> Sorry, didn't sleep well last nigh.
<RAOF> Although it seems there may be a documentation bug in feisty's default pbuilderrc.  It seems that, if COMPONENTS is not set, the default is "main restricted" rather than just "main".
* proppy hugs dholbach_
<highvoltage> how can I find out where ~/.gconf/apps/panel/objects/email_launcher_screen0/%gconf.xml comes from? I'd like to prevent it from being created in the user's home directory
<elkbuntu> <mc44> Im sure Mith is just waiting for 13:37 UTC
<elkbuntu> well i found it funny ;)
<_MMA_> highvoltage: Is that the Evolution panel launcher?
<pochu> why 13.37?
<lupine_85> :D
<ScottK> highvoltage: http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=gconf.xml&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=stable&arch=i386
<StevenK> pochu: Because mc44 is 14 years old.
<StevenK> Or something.
<pochu> :)
<lupine_85> I'm 21 and find it funny :p
* ScottK is 44 and completely doesn't get it.
<StevenK> 1337 == Leet
<StevenK> If I have to spell it out.
<ScottK> Ah.
<highvoltage> _MMA_: yes
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks for the translation.
<highvoltage> ScottK: thanks
<lupine_85> it's 1337 o'clock!
<ScottK> highvoltage: NP.  You get that off of the file search on packages.debian.org for future reference.
<_MMA_> highvoltage: In Ubuntu Studio we dont install Evo so it left a broken icon there. Do you want to see how we removed it?
<highvoltage> _MMA_: that's *exactly* what I'm looking for :)
<pochu> highvoltage: Right click > Remove from panel :p
<highvoltage> pochu: hah
<_MMA_> highvoltage: Download this: http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/ubuntustudio-default-settings_0.1_all.deb Extract it and look at the usr/share/ubuntustudio-default-settings/panel-settings.entries file.
<highvoltage> _MMA_: ok, doing now...
<_MMA_> highvoltage: I cant find the source package atm but if you need it I can get it later.
<highvoltage> _MMA_: ah, I found what I looked for in there, thanks
<_MMA_> np
<nixternal> ajmitch: sharms is after you man!
<sharms> I have no power of ops here
<sharms> best I can do is write mean things on the planet :)
<xq> in chalk?
<sharms> ha
<xq> or permanent marker?
<xq> i prefer the permanent marker or the bloods
<sharms> well the problem is he is so productive, so I can't disturb his work for gutsy
<xq> missiles aim -far-
<xq> and you could go for one of those missiles that don't necessarily disturb.
<xq> like a shock-and-awe tactic.
<xq> ;)
<xq> you need/want to achieve the "awwwweeee sharms wants me"
<xq> so...missile works.
<mr_pouit> mmh, I love SRUs =)
<mr_pouit>    pypanel | 2.4-1.1build1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources
<mr_pouit>    pypanel |    2.4-1.1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources
<mr_pouit> what revision number can I set for edgy-proposed? :|
<pochu> mr_pouit: ubuntuX.0~proposed1
<pochu> of course X is the latest revision in the package ;)
<pochu> sorry, I wanted to say ubuntuX.1~proposed1 :)
<pochu> if there is no ubuntu revision, then ubuntu0.1~proposed1
<pochu> mr_pouit: and the sru should be ubuntuX.1 :)
<mr_pouit> pochu: then it would be greater than the version in feisty :(
<StevenK> Personally, I don't think pypanel is worth an SRU.
<StevenK> But that's just me.
<pochu> Maybe I'm missing something
<mr_pouit> StevenK: even if the package is actually useless since it is empty?
<Adri2000> mr_pouit: edgy: 2.4-1.1build1, edgy-proposed: 2.4-1.1ubuntu0.1~proposed1, edgy-updates: 2.4-1.1ubuntu0.1
<mr_pouit> Adri2000: edgy ships 2.4-1.1 :$
<Adri2000> ah, I looked at the feisty line
<mr_pouit> and feisty 2.4-1.1build1, so appending ubuntu0.X~prop1 to edgy version won't make it :/
<Adri2000> good point, edgy-updates' version will be >> feisty's
<LaserJock> if anybody is around from last night, my debian-tex svn checkout was 22GB
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: holy cow!
<ScottK> LaserJock: Cool.
<ScottK> And I felt bad having 219 MB of Edgy updates before I upgrade the production hard drive on my laptop...
<LaserJock> the scary thing is it's for less than 15 source packages
<LaserJock> so that more than 1GB/package
<sharms> So who wants to help me with my bash spec?
<dqdev> hello there
<psusi> bash spec?
<dqdev> I just applied to become a motu-helpful
<dqdev> how long does it take to get an answer back from the mentor?
<dqdev> that I applied to?
<LaserJock> dqdev: did you email me? mantha@ ?
<sharms> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash
<dqdev> yes!!
<LaserJock> dqdev: I'm really sorry I haven't responded yet
<dqdev> I didnt get any answer and I got worried
<dqdev> :(
<dqdev> hehe
<LaserJock> dqdev: I've been swamped and we are thinking of moving to using a mentoring list rather than individual people
<LaserJock> I was hoping to hear back on the mailing list creation before I emailed you
<ScottK> I thought the process was show up here and harass people until they answer your questions...
<sharms> that failed for me last week
<sharms> I was trying to fix some bitsize bugs, got stuck, and just ended up nobody knowledgeable could help
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, yes, that also works
<ScottK> Persistence is a virtue.
<dqdev> so... should we just wait?
<sharms> now obviously I am sticking around here, constantly.  But for a new guy, that could be discouraging
<ScottK> sharms: What bug?
<LaserJock> dqdev: well, not that you're here you've gotten past the important part :-)
<sharms> ScottK: was just fixing XNC duplicate menu entry, couldn't figure out how to repackage it correctly
<LaserJock> dqdev: most MOTU learning happens here
<ScottK> What's the bug #?
<dqdev> ok... I m eager to start
<sharms> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xnc/+bug/45569
<ubotu> Malone bug 45569 in xnc "Duplicate items in the applications menu" [Low,Confirmed]  
<LaserJock> dqdev: if I sent you an email I'd link you to the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<LaserJock> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<sharms> for the life of me I could not make debdiff work like I thought it worked
<dqdev> perfect
<dqdev> LaserJock: do you already have some ideas about my contributions...?
<dqdev> LaserJock: or how I am about to start?
<ScottK> sharms: How is this http://librarian.launchpad.net/7335210/xnc.debdiff different than what you wanted?
<dqdev> LaserJock: I really dont know what is the exact procedure
<dqdev> LaserJock: or how things really work
<sharms> ScottK: no that does the trick, just I had to edit out a bunch of junk in the diff because it caught a whole bunch of changes that were not changes
<ScottK> Ah.
<sharms> which leads me to believe I was doing something wrong
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Can you pastebin the original debdiff?
<sharms> not to mention the level 4 patch
<sharms> no I rm -rf the data already
<LaserJock> dqdev: so it sounds like you're interested in science packages
<ScottK> AFAIK as long as it applies 1-4 it's ok
<LaserJock> dqdev: we've got the MOTU Science team
<dqdev> LaserJock: yes...  that's what I would like to more to do
<ScottK> sharms: How did you build your binary package to test it?
<sharms> ScottK: can you verify the procedure I went through is right?
<dqdev> LaserJock: or to get involved into
<sharms> ScottK: first I apt-get source packagename, then I cp -r packagename to packagename.new, then I make changes and increment changelog for new packagename, then I run debuild -S -us -uc on newpackage, then I run pbuild build newpackage.dsc, then I do a debdiff with orig.dsc and new.dsc
<sharms> or am I missing something?
<LaserJock> dqdev: well, right now there isn't a ton to do since we just released Feisty
<sharms> There are 30,000 bugs
<sharms> that seems like a bunch to do!
<LaserJock> dqdev: but you can certainly read up on the packaging guides, hang out here, and work on things like bug triaging like sharms just said
<ScottK> sharms: -us -uc builds the binary package too.  If the clean rules are buggy (they often are) that'll pollute your source tree
<dqdev> ok... could you assign me to smth really easy for starterts??
<sharms> ScottK: what is the proper method?
<LaserJock> dqdev: read the packaging guide :-)
<ScottK> sharms: AFAIK, no
<dqdev> hehe.. ok
<sharms> dqdev: there are bug "tags" somewhere on the wiki there is a link, and there are bugs called bitesized
<dqdev> ok
<sharms> ScottK: ah so you are saying that it was the package that did it because of buggy clean rules, not my procedure
<sharms> ScottK: if that happens should I also fix their makefile?
<ScottK> sharms: No
<LaserJock> dqdev: also look at the Science bug list at http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/bugs.html
<ScottK> sharms: If you are fixing a bug, all you are obligated to do is fix the bug.
<ScottK> If you know make files and can work that out too, that's a bonus.
<sharms> Gotcha
<ScottK> Unless it's for an SRU, for an SRU you do the smallest change possible
<ScottK> I always debuild -S -sa, and then build the binary with pbuilder
<dqdev> something about the procedure, which is still not quite clear to me
<ScottK> This means I sign the source package, which I don't need for a debdiff, but that way it's the same for me for debdiff or REVU
<ScottK> sharms: You good with that?
<dqdev> do you tell me what bug to fix, or on what package to work on or do I pick one on my own???
<sharms> yeah I appreciate the help
<ScottK> NP - You were really close.  I did the same thing when I started
<LaserJock> dqdev: hehe, it's very loose here. Do whatever you like, find a package you like or just work on everything
<ScottK> dqdev: As a piece of advice, find a bug tagged both bitesize and packaging.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> dqdev: as we start Gutsy Gibbon we'll probably get some more direction
<ScottK> Howdy
<LaserJock> ScottK: yes, good advice
<sharms> bddebian: hey
<dqdev> so I dont really need to be assigned by you to a project/task
<bddebian> Hi ScottK, sharms, LaserJock
<ScottK> dqdev: Just go to work
<ScottK> high bddebian
<sharms> I think that is one point that should be addressed through motu-mentoring: The scope of understanding motu tasks is very large and intimidating to outsiders
<LaserJock> dqdev: heavens no
<LaserJock> sharms: yes, I agree
<LaserJock> dqdev: we aren't *that* mean ;-)
<_MMA_> LaserJock made me cry once. :(
<bddebian> :'-(
<LaserJock> oh come on
<LaserJock> that wasn't intentional ;-)
<_MMA_> Well, you should have paid for the cab afterward then. :(
<shawarma> When does Gutsy open? I'm bored.
<dqdev> ok... I ll look around and start working on smthng
<Hobbsee> shawarma: hah.  already?
<zul> shawarma: when its ready
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Yeah, let's get this thing going.
<shawarma> Hobbsee: :-)
<shawarma> zul: Clever.
<sharms> you know, I really did like edgy
<shawarma> Hobbsee: It beats the heck out of doing laundry.. which reminds me..
* shawarma wanders off for a bit..
<sharms> see
<sharms> now you have to wonder if dqdev is coming back
<Hobbsee> shawarma: haha
<Hobbsee> shawarma: give them a day off :P
<sharms> maybe a guide, like web 2.0 style, that breaks down motu into super small pieces much like the bitesize bugs
<Hobbsee> shawarma: that's what you can do.  update all the documentation
<bddebian> w00t
<ScottK> sharms: It's a wiki.  Have at it.
<sharms> I can guarantee that dqdev just went to the documentation, got overwhelmed, and logged off ubuntu-motu
<sharms> Yeah I might do that, just the only limitation being my knowledge
<crimsun> eh, at least he avoided the sharp, pointy teeth.
<ScottK> sharms: Perfect.  Write the newbies guide to getting started in MOTU.
<ScottK> sharms: Do it now.  Wait and you'll know to much.
* sharms needs to learn to keep his mouth shut :)
<LaserJock> sharms: well, I have something in the works
<sharms> I was just hoping with advancements in technology that I could just load motu skills via matrix like plug in my head
<ScottK> sharms: I got the same treatment from the DD that agreed to upload my stuff in Debian, so I recently wrote this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam
<LaserJock> well, we need massive overhaul of documentation
<LaserJock> but it requires people willing to do it
* Hobbsee has a half-framework, as such
<Hobbsee> but it needs lots of work
<ScottK> LaserJock: True, but I think what sharms is trying to avoid volunteering to do is something we need that's distinct from what we have now.
<LaserJock> yes, that's what I mean by overhaul
<sharms> yeah I just have a business trip coming up here soon, but I am thinking about it
<LaserJock> again, I've got something in the works
<LaserJock> hopefully I can get it going by UDS
<ScottK> OK, so we can all quit working on docs because LaserJock has it covered?
<LaserJock> s/it going/a mockup/ ;-)
<LaserJock> oh pfftt
<LaserJock> we really really need to get a gameplan together
<LaserJock> what do we want to document?
<sharms> I think I will design on independent of your efforts laserjock, mine focusing on brand new people, and we can meet in the middle somewhere
<LaserJock> how do we want to document it?
<sharms> I want to make a web 2.0, rounded corners, tons of pictures guide
<LaserJock> sharms: I'd rather it be a consistent community efforts
<ScottK> sharms: Start with the wiki.
<ScottK> Get the right info into a new page there.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: we need it to be from a MOTU-incommer perspective
<LaserJock> sharms: well, to some extent, don't "dumb" it down too much
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: http://buntudot.org/people/~hobbsee/misc/MOTU type style
<sharms> Wiki is too overwhelming for me, I will use it as a reference, but I am just not knowledgeable enough to feel comfortable editing existing pages
<LaserJock> yes, exactly
* LaserJock calls a timeout
<LaserJock> hang on people
<zul> 2 minutes for roughing?
<LaserJock> ok, so clearly we have several people thinking similar things
<LaserJock> but not working together ;-)
<ScottK> sharms: Make a new page.  Don't edit exiting
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: might be a plan to work by gobby
<shawarma> Hobbsee: I'm not really in my I-feel-like-doing-some-documentation-writing mood. I'm not even sure I have such a mood.
<LaserJock> let's put together a MOTU Docs gameplan/roadmap
<Hobbsee> shawarma: heh
<LaserJock> I want to see "what" we want for documentation before we go and start writing things all over the place
<sharms> My real goal is super low barrier of entry through aesthetics, organization, and media
<LaserJock> the MOTU documentation should be in 1 place
<ScottK> But in the meantime whatever sharms comes up with can be integrated into it.  I think he's solving a different problem.
<ScottK> LaserJock: That's about structure, not content.
<LaserJock> yes, but I think we need structure before he head into content
<ScottK> If sharms makes new content, it can be integrated into the structure.
<LaserJock> we need to be consistent
<LaserJock> not if he doesn't know what else is going on
<LaserJock> and how it fits togethere
<LaserJock> -e
<sharms> do I ever?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thus my comment about we all wait.
<LaserJock> well, since people are in the mood I want to capture it ;-)
<ScottK> He sees a hole, he should fill it.
<sharms> ha my real goal is this: transform slomo into a webpage 
<LaserJock> hehe
* ScottK doesn't recall a huge amount of trouble with the documentationb, but is also not easily intimidated.
<LaserJock> well, there's a couple issues here
<LaserJock> 1) documentation should look nice and be organized and complete
<LaserJock> 2) there will basically always be a barrier to learning packaging, we can't get rid of it via pretty pictures
<LaserJock> we don't want to make it too easy, but we don't want to make it unneccesarily hard either
<sharms> I think pretty pictures help with visualization, and we need to use as much media as possible to hit all the parts of the brain
<sharms> it works great for web-frameworks
<LaserJock> not necessarily, but kinda yeah
<LaserJock> some people work better that way
<LaserJock> others don't
<LaserJock> it's one of the hard parts of documentation
<LaserJock> however, I'm not nearly as concerned with specific media
<LaserJock> in the end we kinda need to cover lots of different media
<LaserJock> so I like sharms idea
<sharms> Thats why I like the desktop screenshots on behind motu.  When you don't get those, the average reader ends up thinking that MOTU is about having 30 monitors and assembly code everywhere
<LaserJock> which often isn't far from the truth
<sharms> ha
* welshbyte turns off 29 monitors and switches off the soldering iron
<LaserJock> anyway
<welshbyte> was just looking at an eclipse bug
<LaserJock> the, it's not necessarily an easy thing
<LaserJock> the Documentation Team, for instance, doesn't have a single screenshot in the Ubuntu documentation, that I know of
<LaserJock> it's difficult to keep updated, for one
<LaserJock> it can be also hard for an essentially CLI task like packaging
<welshbyte> those grey monospace boxes with CLI commands are good for that, as long as the command is explained so that the reader knows exactly what it's doing
<welshbyte> otherwise there's no learning
<sharms> I also like information boxes, where we have a box with a tango (!) logo that says information critical to the article
<sharms> basically kind of copy of fedoras doc style a bit
<LaserJock> well, I do that with the packaging guide
<LaserJock> essentially there's a couple problems, as I see it anyway.
<LaserJock> 1) the Packaging Guide is mostly just about packaging, not about MOTU
<LaserJock> so there isn't much on processes, how to get involved, etc.
<LaserJock> 2) MOTU wiki documentation is kinda scattered, outdate, redundant at times
<LaserJock> 3) we don't have an Ubuntu Developer's Reference yet, which would help with 1)
<LaserJock> any other problems?
<sharms> Maybe we need to divide it up, because we need a bland, technical reference, and a flashy newbie reference
<cbx33> we need a process part too
<cbx33> in the n00b section prboably
<sharms> since once you know it, you don't want the hand holding as much
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> maybe 
<cbx33> like nice shiney equipment has when it comes
<LaserJock> sharms: well, that's essentially how I saw the Packaging Guide and Developer's Reference
<cbx33> Getting started Guide
<cbx33> and a full on hands dirty thingy
<sharms> LaserJock: yeah I don't know if I was focusing specifically on packaging, or on being an all around contributor 
<LaserJock> we do have a "Contributing to Ubuntu" doc
<LaserJock> in the doc team repo
<cbx33> i think the problem is
<cbx33> ther are so many ways to contribute
<cbx33> we need a short doc for each
<cbx33> answering the same sorts of questions
<cbx33> imh
<cbx33> o
<sharms> What I am looking for is something that only my mentor was able to give me, that I want to reproduce so we can help jumpstart that step
<cbx33> sharms, agreed
<welshbyte> i like the idea of having exercises at the end of the documentation page or summaries of what was covered and what you should now be able to do
<sharms> The documentation left me stranded and confused, the mentor answered all my questions not answered by the docs
<LaserJock> yes, it's just hard to replace people by documentation :-)
<cbx33> sharms, which doc?
<LaserJock> that's why I'm advocating a motu-mentors mailing list
<cbx33> LaserJock, good idea
<sharms> cbx33: its been awhile, no clue anymore, but I read all the wiki docs, and I even bought the debian book which was recommended just for the packaging section
<LaserJock> we need a 3 prong (at least) approach of IRC, Mailing List, Docs
<cbx33> LaserJock's pacakging guide helped me a lot
<cbx33> I keep it in my drawer at work ;)
<welshbyte> +1 on motu-mentors@
<LaserJock> cbx33: funny, I have a copy of the Debian New Maintainer's Guide in my drawer at work
<cbx33> heheh
<LaserJock> cbx33: I forgot I had it then found it yesterday when I was digging around in my desk
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> mine keeps losing a page at a time each time I open and close the drawer
<LaserJock> I've got a print copy here
<LaserJock> very first book buy the doc team on lulu.com
<LaserJock> *by
<sharms> I like this page: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/developers-guide/ch-rpm-building.html    --- they make use of a great color scheme, grey code boxes, and information boxes with icons
<sharms> I want to take that, and take it 1 more level into readabilityu
<LaserJock> sharms: and that's different than http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<sharms> no actually that doc looks better
<sharms> the ubuntu one
<LaserJock> I'm telling ya, we're not totally full of crack over here ;-)
<LaserJock> we need improvements for sure
<LaserJock> but I still feel like the Ubuntu Packaging Guide is about the easiest resource we've got for learning to package
<sharms> yeah actually I really like that style, do we have a reference like that for "top 10 most common MOTU tasks"
<LaserJock> I'd like to make it more "user friendly" but we also need to preserve the detailed reference part
<LaserJock> hence having both a Packaging Guide and Developer's Reference
<welshbyte> the ubuntu packaging guide is great, but i think it ends too soon
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> ok, so 3 distinct docs:
<welshbyte> for instance, python packages are pretty popular in ubuntu but i don't think the packaging guide mentions them in much detail
<LaserJock> 1) packaging guide - learning how to create debian packages, generic
<LaserJock> 2) developer's reference - Ubuntu-specific reference on processes, etc.
<LaserJock> 3) MOTU guide - MOTU specific, how to get invloved
<LaserJock> sound about right?
<sharms> yeah but getting involved needs to have detailed sections
<LaserJock> sure
<sharms> How to create a debdiff, how to check upstream trackers for open bugs etc
<cbx33> LaserJock, the guide is the easiest for learning packaging
<LaserJock> ok, so I think 1) and 2) can stay as they are as docbook/HTML
<LaserJock> 3) I think should probably be a wiki guide
<sacater> HAPPY RELEASE DAY EVERYONE!
<sacater> juist got back from my bike ride
<LaserJock> hi sacater :-)
<sacater> hi
<LaserJock> the problem with the MOTU Guide, and why I didn't do it in the packaging guide, is that it will change a lot
* sacater goes for update manager...
<LaserJock> it's not like a reference where you write it and then just do a little maintanence
<LaserJock> sacater: good luck, I'm guessing the download speed will be not so great
<sacater> oh yeah
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: where'd you go?
<sacater> everyone will be getting it
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: here
<Hobbsee> somewhere
<Hobbsee> i think
* Hobbsee checks
* Hobbsee looks around for the Hobbsee 
<sacater> LaserJock: translation_US is down :o
<ScottK> sacater: If you've been running Feisty development versions and you're up to date, then you've got it.
<sacater> :o
<sacater> oh
<sacater> mmk
<sacater> Translation-en-US isnt working
<sacater> its either down or ridiculously busy
<sacater> oh, done
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: nope, lost her
<sacater> no updates yay!
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: what do you think of all of ^^?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: the part that i took in sounded sensbiel
<LaserJock> well, maybe we should spec it out
<sharms> Hobbsee: translation: the parts that were not sharms were sensible 
<Hobbsee> haha
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: have you started any writing on the stuff that 
<LaserJock> tha's in the outline you gave?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: all i've got written out is that outline
<Hobbsee> and that's very much a WIP
<Hobbsee> its' mostly in my brain
<LaserJock> uh oh ;-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> along with the plans of world domination
<Hobbsee> speaking of which, when are the golden pony awards?
<LaserJock> very soon
<Hobbsee> yay :)
<LaserJock> I'm guessing today if I get around to it
<LaserJock> I might wait until all the "OMG FEISTY!!!!" is out of the way ;-)
<Hobbsee> lol
<Hobbsee> and planet comes up again
<cbx33> and down again
<nixternal> haha, I was just noticing the same thing. docs.ubuntu.com has been doing the same
<sharms> nixternal: I hear its because of my enhancedbash spec
<nixternal> muhahahahaha I doubt it ;p
<LaserJock> sharms: lol
<Amaranth> poningru: lupine_85 is in here :)
<poningru> thanks :D
<poningru> lupine_85: ping
<poningru> does the beryl package in feisty automagically enable compositing for X? or does that need to be done manually?
<lupine_85> pong?
<lupine_85> composite is enabled in the X server by default
<poningru> oh!
<poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BerylOnFeisty
<lupine_85> the beryl package doesn't play with any X server or driver settings at all
<sharms> that sounds more like a question for #ubuntu
<sharms> or even #ubuntu-effects
<lupine_85> Composite "true" is the default on newer X.org servers
<poningru> hmm ok thanks
<zen> I noticed that the topic said the entire archive is frozen for release...does that mean that we can't get Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 in?
<mr_pouit> yes
<zen> Bleh, that sucks...
<crimsun> we don't change frozen, released stable versions.
<crimsun> besides, mozilla-thunderbird is a main package and not our jurisdiction (mostly)
<geser> and you don't get a new untested upstream version short before the release into the archive
<crimsun> on another note, I guess we could watch -bugs and start tagging SRU candidates
<sharms> dqdev: how is it going so far?
<dqdev> i m just reading stuff in the WIKI
<sharms> dqdev: is anything really unclear so far?
<joejaxx> Happy Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn Release Everyone :)
<dqdev> well to be honest, it's a lot of info for a first time
<zen> Heh, happy release.
<LaserJock> yep
<dqdev> and the work-order is a little bit obscure
<dqdev> but ill figure it out
<dqdev> reading the manual now...
<crimsun> has anyone pointed dqdev to /TODO?
<sharms> dqdev: make sure if you have questions, don't get frustrated, just ask here
<dqdev> i found the page THINGS TO BE DONE
<sharms> crimsun: if he was just pointed to MOTU docs, I am sure he has hours of reading ahead as it is
<dqdev> hehe
<crimsun> sometimes it's easier to dive right in and fix bugs, then go back and read overview docs
<dqdev> to the tip that I got before, hence to look first at bitesize bugs
<dqdev> what are exactly? easy bugs to fix?
<sharms> yeah they are the bugs that people getting started can fix
<crimsun> yes, small, easily explained/understood bugs that can be fixed quickly
<sharms> so bitesized bugs only take people like me 2-4 weeks to fix
<dqdev> ok... I should really start from there
<sharms> jk :) although I do need a new comp, pbuilder is killing me
<zen> well, doesn't look like tb2's installer works anyways... =\
<sharms> zen: yeah you probably want to join their IRC channel instead since 2.0.0 isnt a part of ubuntu
<zen> sharms, yeah, I'm there.
* sharms is going to get lunch, shuts off 30 computer screens :)
<dqdev> in order to start working on a bug, do I have to subscribe to it? And if yes, can I do that on my own?
<crimsun> you do not have to sub to it, but it's a good idea. Yes, you can sub on your own to any public bug.
<dqdev> ok, thanks
<dqdev> and something more...
<dqdev> let's say that I try to fix a simple bug (a simple one that I see here: supertux no menu icon)
<dqdev> excuse the following silly questions, but I have to start from somewhere
<LaserJock> they aren't silly
<dqdev> then i trace the problem, fix the problem and then do I have to do the packaging from starT?
<LaserJock> nope
<crimsun> no, you provide what's called a debdiff.
<dqdev> ok... have to read some more...
<dqdev> sorry . shouldnt hurry
<crimsun> the packaging guide on your system (and online) has instructions for generating a debdiff.
<dqdev> i'm reading it right now
<sacater> may i now ask what the next release is going to be called
<LaserJock> sacater: Gutsy Gibbon
<zul> isnt it gusty?
<sacater> ooh
<sacater> gusy gibbon
<sacater> gusty*
<nixternal> gusty?
<Adri2000> no, gutsy :)
<nixternal> it isn't flatulent!!!
<sacater> ha ha
<sacater> anyway
<sacater> ill take all the Q+A for 'gutsy'
<sacater> :P
<dqdev> do I have to be member of any Launchpad Team, before I start working on some bug?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> If you are working on triaging, joining bugsquad is good.
<nixternal> that Ubuntu FGLXR button or what not to install the binary blobs is wreaking havoc here at the install fest
<tsmithe> restricted-manager?
<nixternal> it is freezing every machine
<nixternal> fglrx btw
<ScottK> Bug #??
<nixternal> right at X, you loose all control, can't ctrl+alt+f1 into a term, power and reset are your friends at that poing
<nixternal> s/poing/point
<nixternal> well, the bug would be naked. it doesn't even write a xorg log at all
<ScottK> It's a start...
<nixternal> we can fill the report in with "it just locks, you can't do anything, no logs, can't do this or that" ;)
<nixternal> we are trying manual installation now to see if it is the button way, or if it is fglrx in general
<ScottK> That's better than some we get.
<nixternal> haha true
<crimsun> A nice long vacation until gutsy+1 would be nice.
<ScottK> bug 107720
<ubotu> Malone bug 107720 in Ubuntu "have no idea" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107720
<bddebian> crimsun: Go for it, you deserve it! :-)
<nixternal> crimsun: I hear you there! where do you want to go?
<crimsun> nixternal: Vista, duh.
<nixternal> hahahahahaha
<nixternal> I knew that was going to be the answer
<nixternal> lunch time
<sacater> pochu: ive topped you on karma :P
<pochu> sacater: you rock! :)
<sacater> thank very much
<sacater> pochu: me works as* off
<sacater> :o
<grayman> heh
<pochu> :)
<grayman> now all women will stand in line to your booth instead ;)
<sharms> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-pptp/+bug/107738
<ubotu> Malone bug 107738 in network-manager-pptp "network-manager-pptp doesn't exists in Ubuntu!" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<sharms> is this guy BaBL being a troll or just bad english?
<grayman> heh
<grayman> a troll
<grayman> famous Russian sarcasm
<grayman> some people just don't know where -not- to use it
<sharms> yeah it just makes it hard to tell with language barriers
<grayman> well, this package needs to be moved to main
<grayman> while in Federal cities most people use adsl, in oter parts of the country vpn is still very popular
<grayman> s/oter/other
<sharms> We are sorry for your frustration, but as you were not involved in development at any point, and pptp required by default install is a fringe case (< 1%) I don't know how we would have figured that out. This bug is a great start to getting this included for Gutsy, so you are on the right track.
<sharms> that was my response
<grayman> good enough
<zul> oh let the crackful ideas on the ubuntuforums begin
<ScottK> zul: Way to late.
<sharms> is anyone else concerned about the 40% drop in performance going to gcc 4.2?
<psusi> huh?
* danohuiginn reads scrollback, likes the ideas for overhauling the docs
<LaserJock> hmm, me thinks Planet must be down
<gnomefreak> psusi: http://www.whatimiss.net/ubuntu-devel/?m=20070402
<gnomefreak> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2007-02/msg00390.html may give more insite
<zul> LaserJock: I think it might has something to do with feisty and being released today
<LaserJock> perhaps, it was working fine for me
<zul> its working for me fine though
<tiCo89> dget http://www.marioiseli.com/debian/sid/main/source/net/mcabber_0.9.1-1.dsc
<tiCo89> can anyone modify it for me and upload it to ubuntu? thank you
<LaserJock> tiCo89: nobody can upload right now, Feisty is just released and Gutsy Gibbon hasn't opened
<tiCo89> LaserJock: hmmm okey, but you can echo it >> ~/ubuntu/TODO
<LaserJock> !info mcabber feisty
<ubotu> mcabber: Small Jabber console client. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.3-1 (feisty), package size 142 kB, installed size 688 kB
<LaserJock> tiCo89: it'll automatically get synced into gutsy
<tiCo89> thx
<ivoks> omg
<ivoks> i have load 66 on hr.archive.ubuntu.com
<tiCo89> ivoks: *grin* :)
<ivoks> 600 active conections
<ivoks> :/
<LaserJock> yeah, I wonder if we'll get numbers on how many downloads there were today
<zul> probably
<ivoks> i'll be able to tell you that as soon as i manage to open logs :D
<ivoks> http://ubuntu-hr.org/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain.html
<ScottK> I did patches for Bug #107628 - Before it gets to much farther along for security, I'd appreciate a sanity check from a MOTU...
<ubotu> Malone bug 107628 in lighttpd "DoS-vulnerability in lighttpd" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107628
<keescook> ScottK: the patches look good, I sent a comment about using "dpatch" to incorporate them into the packages, though.  good work!  :)
<ScottK> I just saw it.
<ScottK> The older packages didn't have a /patches dir, so it seemes sensible to not make one to keep the diff small.
<keescook> ScottK: okay, cool.  Yeah, I didn't check dapper, just edgy's package.
<ScottK> Hang on though.
<keescook> I have a script to help me guess at the patch systems: http://outflux.net/debian/scripts/what-patch
* ScottK may have missed it.  Looking agaon
<ScottK> keescook: Nevermind.  I"m just to tired.  
<ScottK> I got not much sleep last night.
<ScottK> The patch systems are there.
<keescook> doh!  no problem.  :)
<ScottK> If you want me to redo, I will, but probably not until tomorrow.
* ScottK needs to go lie down....
<keescook> sure, no rush.  :)  g'night!  :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:DarkSun88] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers |or release
<dqdev> Is there a WIKI page that describes the whole process on how to truck and fix a bug?
<tonyyarusso> Wow tony, just wow
* tonyyarusso read that as "Is there a WIKI page that describes the whole process on how to fit a truck in a bag?"
<dqdev> yes... Or any general help?
<tonyyarusso> !bugs
<ubotu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots
<tonyyarusso> Hrm, that's mostly reporting
<dqdev> yes
<dqdev> let me explain you
<tonyyarusso> Well, subscribing to it in LP is the first step
<dqdev> i found a bitesize bug 
<dqdev> for newbies like me
<dqdev> in LP
<tonyyarusso> righto
<dqdev> what step should i follow
<tonyyarusso> There should be a button on the LP page like "Assign to me", go ahead and do that.
<dqdev> ok
<tonyyarusso> Do you magical fun stuff, then poke someone in here or send to the -motu mailing list when you have a fix to get someone to sponsor the upload
<dqdev> right
<dqdev> concerning this magical stuff
<dqdev> and excuse my silly questioning
<tonyyarusso> That depends on the bug - if it's code I'm useless ;)
<dqdev> since I am not really an expert
<dqdev> what's the line of work?
<dqdev> do i download the source
<dqdev> and try to find some mistakes there?
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, apt-get source yourpackagename
<tonyyarusso> Which bug?
<dqdev> 105515
<tonyyarusso> bug 105515
<ubotu> Malone bug 105515 in supertux "Missing menu icon for superTux" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105515
<dqdev> a very simple one
<dqdev> exactly
<tonyyarusso> Ah, very nice.
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, you'll be concerned with the /debian directory of the source package only.
<dqdev> ok
<dqdev> so 1st step is download the source
<tonyyarusso> All it takes is making an icon (I'd have to look up the size), putting it in there, and adding it to the desktop file
<tonyyarusso> yep
<somerville32> Who butchered the topic?
<tonyyarusso> Assign it to yourself so nobody else duplicates your work in the meantime.
<dqdev> nice directions tony montana - helped a lot
<dqdev> ok, cool
<tonyyarusso> (montana?)
<dqdev> the film with al pacino
<dqdev> tony montana
<dqdev> when you say 'assign'
<dqdev> you mean subscribe/?
<tonyyarusso> Nope
<tonyyarusso> Click the supertux (ubuntu) part under "Affects"
<dqdev> i found it
<dqdev> ok
<tonyyarusso> It's an option in what drops down from that
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:pochu] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU |   http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO |  http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html | HAPPY UNIVERSE HUG DAY | Entire archive is frozen for release
<pochu> somerville32: fixed ;)
* somerville32 cheers.
<somerville32> When are the archives going to open for Gutsy?
<LaserJock> ok people
<pochu> somerville32: they have to run the publisher
<pochu> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> the momement you've all been waiting for is here
<LaserJock> the Ponies are up
<DktrKranz> really?
<LaserJock> although since right now the DC seems slammed you might want to try a direct url: http://laserjock.wordpress.com/2007/04/19/second-semiannual-golden-pony-awards/
<somerville32> Is it a pink pony?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it's a Golden Pony :-)
<somerville32> Ah.
<somerville32> A Golden Pink Pony?
* LaserJock gives up
<pochu> LaserJock: funny :) just a side note: it's burgundavia, not burgundivia :)
<pochu> or is it another joke? :)
<LaserJock> no thanks
<LaserJock> I always spell it wrong
<pochu> oh, ok :)
<somerville32> LaserJock, What about keybuck?
<pochu> then, spell it burgunvidia :)
<somerville32> He is obvisously the hottest male actor.
<LaserJock> well, I could literally do hundreds of them
<LaserJock> I just do a few for fun
<somerville32> Indeed.
<somerville32> I like it.
<welshbyte> LaserJock: unless bddebian has lost weight, you misspelled "deity" :)
<LaserJock> welshbyte: thanks, that's another one I can't seem to spell right
<LaserJock> honest, I did go to school you guys ;-)
<somerville32> lol
<ajmitch> morning alll
<LaserJock> mwuahaha
<ajmitch> oh that's welcoming
* ajmitch should head back to bed
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ponies are up ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: thanks very much
<ajmitch> I just saw it
<sharms> ajmitch: I saw that kick last night, you are on my list of people to abuse ops on :)
* ajmitch is innocent, it was all nixternal 
<sharms> yeah me too 
<ajmitch> blame LaserJock 
<ajmitch> he's the one being mean & cruel
<sharms> no he has documentation work to do -- chop chop
* LaserJock runs
<sharms> I am stressing out today, I need to quit my current job because I have a better job that I agreed to go work for
<sharms> but my current boss is really hard to deal with, and it wont be easy
<sharms> this is my second time trying to quit
<dqdev> it is the same with me trying to brake up with my gf :)
<sharms> I work from home so I get to do it over the phone, but that almost makes it harder since I am intimidating in person
<sharms> my game plan is to call him in 25 minutes, and say "I need to put in my 30 days notice, I am not happy with my current job"
<sharms> and be vague and don't give him a chance to argue my points
<sharms> any other advice?
<sharms> bah fine throw me to the wolves
<sacater> LaserJock: so, since the release, are bug reports flooding?
<sacater> or is feisty bug free :D
<sharms> I have got a few myself, sshfs + encfs, democracy-player
<sharms> and there are a bunch of reports about quick buttons on laptops not working, and that feisty runs "slow"
<jmg> heh
<jmg> "runs slow"
<sharms> yeah I havent noticed anything but I have been running it for a long time
<sacater> im fine too
<sharms> feisty + 1 gcc 4.2 really scares me though
<sacater> anyone know when the dev version of gusty will be available
<sacater> whoops
<sacater> gutsy*
<jmg> everything "runs slow"
<sacater> dont like wind :P
<sacater> jmg: fine for me
<sharms> if they go with gcc 4.2 that is up to a 40% performance reduction
<jmg> no i mean
<jmg> its all slow
<sacater> sharms: a good increase would be changing bootup bash to C#
<sacater> much much much faster
<lupine_85> sacater: no, I suggest we implement everything in BBC BASIC :p
<jmg> sacater: just write a JIT compiler for bash code 
<sharms> yeah what I am talking about affects every single program thougjh
<sacater> all talk to Uber in #gentoo
<sacater> he did it for gentoo
<sacater> my mates laptop boots in 2 seconds
<sacater> literally
<sharms> spec?
<sacater> ask him
<Spec> 'eh?
<sacater> his name is welp
<sacater> gentoo dev
<tonyyarusso> lol at the Golden Ponies
<sharms> Spec: doh meant blueprint spec
<Spec> :p
<sacater> and ask Uber about bash << C'
<sacater> c#*
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch is a dinosaur?
<jmg> OMG PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<LaserJock> I particularlly enjoyed bddebian's award
<sharms> LaserJock: where is my award for "best spec fanboy"
<LaserJock> hehe
<geser> LaserJock: is there a hi-res picture of the award?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I just grabbed it off of yahoo image search
<Spec> sharms: it's my award.
<ajmitch> tonyyarusso: according to LaserJock I am
<sharms> In fact, in the weblog entry you could add the "best spec fanboy" and have it link directly to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash
<tonyyarusso> Excuse me, _yahoo_ image search?
<sharms> I hear that it is getting a lot of team behind it
<sharms> and its a "vista killer"
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch: so that makes you what, 40?
<sharms> steam rather
<LaserJock> sharms: why don't you blog it :-)
<LaserJock> Golden Ponies: Take 2
<sharms> LaserJock: I hit my limit before people start flaming me
<ajmitch> tonyyarusso: no, I'm apparantly just mean & bitter 
<tonyyarusso> ah
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: what about yahoo image search?
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: Who still uses yahoo?  Google ftw!
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> my Home Page at home is still Yahoo
<jmg> im confused
<jmg> this guardian article seems to think xubuntu will install in 64mb of memory
<ScottK> Isn't that what the xubuntu web site says is the minimum?
<arejay> bug 107648
<ubotu> Malone bug 107648 in Ubuntu "The Ubuntu community is insane" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107648
<jmg> statement probably true
<arejay> hrm.
<Monk-e> Any core devs here?
<somerville32> Monk-e, maybe.
<somerville32> Is lp slow today too?
<Monk-e> Guess I'll just shoot, bug 107813
<ubotu> Malone bug 107813 in devmapper "Incompatible libdevmapper 1.02.08 (2006-07-17)(compat) and kernel driver" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107813
<sacater> hey, does anyone mind if i make a sort of motu testing doc, questions about packages etc
<sacater> package nameing system and such
<sharms> sacater: talk with laserjock too, he is talking about doing some doc stuff
<sacater> LaserJock: ?
<LaserJock> sacater sharms: I was thinking of use Moodle to create a MOTU classes
<superm1> LaserJock, when were you planning on hosting another class?
<LaserJock> I'm doing 2 sessions of Packaging 101 next week for Open Week
<superm1> ah okay
<superm1> crimsun mentioned doing one on apport and retraces, any idea if that will be in the near future too?
<LaserJock> we haven't formalized anything yet, I don't think
<ajmitch> LaserJock: there's an open week?
<LaserJock> starts Monday
<ajmitch> shows how much I've been watching
<ajmitch> or it just hasn't been publicised
<LaserJock> the later
<ajmitch> must be only the important people who take part :)
<LaserJock> I didn't know about it until I was asked to do the sessions
<LaserJock> and that was just a couple days ago
<LaserJock> jono blogged about it today though
<jmg> url to ponies?
<LaserJock> hmm, does anybody actually *buy* Viagra by clicking on spam on sombodies blog?
<LaserJock> jmg: planet.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> or laserjock.worldpress.com if you like
<ajmitch> open week might be interesting
<sharms> LaserJock: moodle looks pretty neat
<jmg> LaserJock: apparently so
<LaserJock> sharms: it might be cool if it isn't too difficult
<LaserJock> sharms: I've got it set up on my server, trying to figure out how it works, etc.
<LaserJock> I'd like to have like a mockup to show for UDS
<jmg> how come Australia has a LoCo team?
<ajmitch> why wouldn't it?
<pochu> jmg: #ubuntu-au, afaik
<jmg> oh, i thought it was a localisation team.
<ajmitch> local community team
<jmg> right
<LaserJock> well, they need en_AU transtaltors too
<ajmitch> localisation is just a part of what teams might do
#ubuntu-motu 2007-04-20
<wondering> I installed a stock command line installation with the kubuntu-alternate-i386 CD on my machine and I can't login with local user accounts through KDM.
<wondering> Is this a known issue?
<wondering> I can login from VT{1,6}, but not from KDM.
<wondering> KDM doesn't say "Login Failed" (meaning I didn't enter my password incorrectly). Instead, it fades to black and then takes me back to KDM's greeter.
<sharms> wondering: ask #kubuntu this is not the right channel
<Hobbsee> yay, golden pony awards!
<sharms> sacater: I have been corresponding with Uber on the Gentoo startup system, but our startup system already leverages C (upstart)
<sharms> sacater: can you expand more on your comment earlier?
<jmg> does feisty use upstart?
<Flannel> jmg: yes
<jmg> this is the first time ive ever used a virtual machine that was faster than the guest os
<Flannel> jmg: edgy+n uses upstart
<jmg> host os*
<sharms> ha
<sharms> jmg: you should put a guest VM inside of the guest VM
<sharms> thats when things get crazy
<jmg> now i want to upgrade my home box
<jmg> but i dont want to wreck my freevo setup
<jmg> what about feisty xubuntu?
<Flannel> what about it?  xubuntu.com has links to it
<sharms> jmg: maybe you need to put yourself in a vm
* sharms ponders if that is actually an insult
<jmg> heh
<jmg> uh oh
<jmg> i just tried to open ooo
<jmg> is it bugged?
<jmg> is it just me or does ooo not work under the livecd at all?
* jmg checks launchpad
<micahcowan> When is a simple patch preferable to a debdiff? For instance, in the case of packages that get heavy development and are either synced often or get frequent bugfixes, is it better to supply a plain diff and let the package maintainers decide how it should fall with ordering/package-version?
<jmg> hmm
<jmg> whats blocking freevo from universe?
<lifeless> micahcowan: a simple patch is preferrable when you are simply changing the code of the package, not the packaging
<lifeless> micahcowan: generally a debdiff is preferrable, because you usually will change the debian changelog
<micahcowan> Well, I can't think of an instance where the changelog won't be changed; but OTOH the way I change it may not end up being the way the maintainers want it changed (especially if they want to fold several patches into the next build: why bump it once per patch?--or, they could also end up with conflicting patches to the same build number)
<micahcowan> is it easier in such cases to simply provide a patch, or will they just edit the diffs to deal with "merge" issues?
<lifeless> huh
<lifeless> I dont know what assumptions you'r emaking
<micahcowan> Well, if both I and Foo provide a patch on bar to bar-0ubuntu1, then simply applying my debdiff, and then his, won't work: chunks of Foo's debdiff will be rejected, and the developer will have to deal with resolving issues, at least with the changelog.
<lifeless> micahcowan: thats called merging :)
<micahcowan> Alright: so pretty much always, debdiff > diff -u
* micahcowan thinks kicking off a pbuilder create today was a bad idea...
<ajmitch> micahcowan: taking a few hours to grab packages?
<micahcowan> ajmitch, well, not yet, but probably (I've only been  running it around an hour).
<ajmitch> hehe
<micahcowan> I /did/ upgrade to feisty on my work machine, though, and that's probably taken at least 6 hours (I left before it was done)
<micahcowan> Guess I'll have to wait before I can work on an edgy package, now :)
<joejaxx> :P
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<dholbach> good morning
<joejaxx> Good Morning dholbach 
<dholbach> hey joejaxx
<joejaxx> it seems like the week is one big day for me
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> i should start saying Good { Morning, Afternoon, Night }
<joejaxx> :P
<Lutin> hi there
<joejaxx> hello
<\sh> moins
<joejaxx> Good Morning \sh 
<elkbuntu> hmm... no laserjock in here
<dqdev> hello there!
<jussi01> hi dqdev 
<dqdev> I have a question concerning bugs and distros
<dholbach> fire away
<dqdev> as my 1st easy assignment I tried to fix the bug 105515
<ubotu> Malone bug 105515 in supertux "Missing menu icon for superTux" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105515
<dqdev> an easy one...
<dqdev> but then I downloaded the source here at work (ubuntu 7.04)
<dqdev> and saw that the bug at least for this versio is fixed!!!
<dholbach> oh super
<dholbach> then we can close the bug?
<Fujitsu> Nice:
<Fujitsu> `I have recently upgraded from hoary to feisty and I now no longer have a graphical boot up'
<dqdev> i don't really know. I installed the program from the repositories
<dqdev> and installed it 
<dqdev> and the menu image was there
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Indeed, it is fixed.
<dqdev> ok
<dqdev> should I report it at launchpad
<dqdev> ?
<jussi01> dqdev, if its fixed you can close it...
<dqdev> how do I do that?
<dholbach> click on the package name
<dholbach> in the middle of the page
<dholbach> then mark the bug as 'fix released'
<dqdev> ok
<jussi01> karma!
<jussi01> :D
<dqdev> somebody did it
<dqdev> now it says FIx Releashed
<dqdev> i thought that if you had a bug assigned you were the only one that could work with it
<jussi01> ok, can someone tell me what emacs is and why _everyone_ hates it?
<lupine_85> it's an editor and rms loves it
<jussi01> lol
<jussi01> ok
<jussi01> so do people hate it?
<lupine_85> some people do
<jussi01> oops, forgot the why...
<jussi01> so why do people hate it?
<dqdev> there is only VIM for me
<Fujitsu> jussi01: Because vim is better, of course.
<Fujitsu> <3 vim.
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> uh oh not the emacs/vi{m}/nano wars
<Fujitsu> !start an editor war
<joejaxx> lol
* jussi01 goes back to reading laserjocks blog...
<Fujitsu> Bah, stuff you ubotu-ng.
<minghua> since when is nano involved in editor wars?
<jussi01> minghua, since vim smacked it around the head... :P
<minghua> vim is usually nice, I think nano didn't see clearly - it must be emacs... :-)
<jussi01> hehe
<lupine_85> nano is cool :p
<Fujitsu> lupine_85: Very questionable.
<lupine_85> ;)
<lupine_85> and so a new age of sectarian violence begins...
<damko> hi !
<\sh> oh wow...I have a new flat in karlsruhe
<ScottK> About nano...  Can anyone explain why en en_US ctrl-o is a logical key combination to save a file?
<DarkSun88> Hi all.
<ScottK> Hi
<minghua> ScottK: didn't nano say ctrl-o means writeOut itself?
<ScottK> Something like that
<ScottK> It's not as unintuitive as clicking Start to turn of the computer, but it's up there.
<ScottK> For saving files, Ctrl-s is a pretty standard thing.  Dunno why they have to work at being different.
<ScottK> Of course at least you can read it on the scrren.
<ScottK> screen
<ScottK> Esc :wq is pretty well programmed into my fingers, but it took a while to get it there.
<minghua> nano must picked up it's shortcut keys from pico
<minghua> and I'm not sure ctrl-s is standard in the pico days
<minghua> s/is/was/
* ScottK has never used pico.
<DarkMageZ> hi, which package can i find gfxXlibSurface.h in?
<StevenK> None, on Edgy at least.
<DarkMageZ> and feisty?
<StevenK> Hrm. My apt-file seems to be borked
<DarkMageZ> hmm, how exactly do you run a search for it?
<StevenK> I'd suggest you install apt-file.
<StevenK> Then apt-file update ; apt-file search gfxXlibSurface.h
<StevenK> Right, apt-file is dumb.
<DarkMageZ> hmm, does apt-file generally spit out nothing while it runs?
<DarkMageZ> and not use any cpu
<minghua> you need to setup the database before first use IIRC
<DarkMageZ> with a quick look @ the man file (without properly reading it) it looks like i need to download a lot of packages as a cache so apt-file can search them for the desired file
<geser> DarkMageZ: you can also use packages.ubuntu.com for the search
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<DarkMageZ> hmm, anyone already running feisty with this setup able to run the search?
* Hobbsee waves
<Hobbsee> :)
<\sh> looks like apt-file is broken
<DarkMageZ> looks like debian doesn't have the file i want. they've got a search on their packages page
<ScottK> The Gutsy repositories exist.  Look what distros this is published in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ipython/0.7.3-1
<zul> ScottK: they might exist but they arent open yet :)
<Hobbsee> i'm sure we can try uploading....
<ScottK> Well I want to know when I can upgrade ;-)
<Hobbsee> oh, a.u.c is still dying
<crimsun> neat, dapper->feisty works with only minor hair-tearing.
<Hobbsee> nice
<ScottK> crimsun: KDE or Gnome?
<crimsun> ScottK: I've only tested Ubuntu (so the latter)
<ScottK> OK.
<crimsun> I have a scheduled test for the former later this afternoon.
<ScottK> Thanks.  I've got Dapper with KDE 3.5.5, so I'm wondering how that would go.  It might actually go better directly than via Edgy since Edgy has 3.5.5.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<pochu> hey bddebian 
<Jucato> hi bddebian here too
<bddebian> Hi pochu and Jucato again :_)
<manchicken> Any postgres motus about?
<geser> Hi bddebian
<geser> manchicken: I only use postgres but perhaps I can help you
<StevenK> PostgreSQL is in main
<bddebian> Heya geser
<geser> only PostgreSQL 8.2 is main, 8.1 is universe
<Nafallo> pitti takes care of 8.1 anyway I hope? :-)
<crimsun> probably not if it's in universe.
<ScottK> crimsun: Do you remember the KDM/GDM shutdown bug we were discussing a few days ago?
<crimsun> ScottK: yes, and I read seb's rebuttal.
* ScottK is searching in vain for that bug again.
<ScottK> Someone's having a similar problem over on #kubuntu-devel
<ScottK> Any chance you've got/could easily point me at the bug#?
<bddebian> Damnit, another mentor request... :-(
<ScottK> BTW, are you convinced by the rebuttal?
<manchicken_> Sorry about that.  Wireless at this coffee shop kinda sucks.
<zakame> good evening
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> hi bddebian :D
<manchicken_> So, anybody know how to install tsearch on ubuntu?
<geser> have you tried installing postgresql-contrib-8.2 and activating it in your db?
<manchicken_> geser: Nope.  That is precisely the answer I was hoping for.
<ScottK> I found the bug I was looking for...
<bddebian> yeah
<crimsun> ScottK: I trust seb's judgment in gdm* matters.
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Thanks
<ScottK> And I didn't find the bug after all...
<ScottK> Arghhh.
<crimsun> bug 64695 ?
<ubotu> Malone bug 64695 in kdebase "KDE logout dialog is missing shutdown and restart options" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64695
<ScottK> That's the one.
<ScottK> Thanks
<manchicken_> Is everything compatible with 8.2?
<manchicken_> I removed 8.1 and everything seems to have gone stupid that uses 8.1.
<manchicken__> I'm trying to purge and reinstall postgres and the stuff that was removed as a dependency.
<manchicken__> Wow.
<manchicken__> That was like an out of body experience.
<manchicken__> Damn this wireless sucks.
<bddebian> Yep
<manchicken__> I wish upgrading postgres was easier.
<jussi01> hmmm, why dont i have python-libgaim....
<manchicken> Well that was easy.
<nixternal> woohoo
<nixternal> I got out of jury duty this morning with this famous quote "there should be more drug dealers"
<jsgotangco> isn't it too early on your side
<jsgotangco> like 9am?
<nixternal> 9:30
<nixternal> Jury duty starts at 7am here
<jsgotangco> ick
<nixternal> ya
<jussi01> lol
<manchicken> Nice.
<nixternal> court opens at 8
<nixternal> they will just send me another thing in a few months to try again
<jsgotangco> it seems vmware server doesn't like this kernel at the moment
<nixternal> see, a couple of years ago I never realized that if you didn't go, they would put out a warrant for your arrest
<jsgotangco> i guess ill have to wait for an update
<manchicken> nixternal: Doesn't that like, get you a surveillance detail or something?  
<nixternal> jsgotangco: you need to read the howto on the forusm -> feisty vmware server
<jsgotangco> ahh
* jsgotangco checks
<nixternal> jsgotangco: also the h.u.c/community/vmwareserver or whatever will also help
<jsgotangco> hmm
* nixternal is running vmware server on feisty on my amd64 for katapult screenshots for KDE
<jsgotangco> i've run vmwaver for years ;-) im just trying it now on feisty
<jsgotangco> the vmon doesn't compile for now so i will chekc
<nixternal> ya, there is a little tweaking to do in order for it to build vmmon and vmnet on the 2.6.20 kernel
<nixternal> hey, wait one sec
<nixternal> nm, I had a vmmon.tar and vmnet.tar for feisty and now I can't find them
<crimsun> must be lost in your Vista partition.
<jsgotangco> these tweaks may not be useful anymore once a new version of the server comes out
<elkbuntu> nixternal, dude... did you *really* say that?
<nixternal> I sure did. Jury duty is horrible ;)
<elkbuntu> rofl
<nixternal> I don't want to be responsible for ruining someone elses life
<jsgotangco> nixternal: is this the "any-any" patch?
<nixternal> don't use the any-any patch. it won't work for the latest vmware
<nixternal> at least it didn't work for me
<jsgotangco> i guessed that too
<nixternal> jsgotangco: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Server
<nixternal> read the 7.04 section towards the middle
<jsgotangco> wow its already updated
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: i think we should use that, if we ever get called up for it
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> the only cool thing about jury duty at DuPage is that their information kiosks are Ubuntu
<Hobbsee> nice
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, i got called up once, was the last in the line to be selected.. never got to being considered
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: this is probably a stupid question, but you'd *have* a court where you are, right?
<nixternal> myself and a fellow LUG guy had jury duty last year, he got stuck doing it, but anyways we were sitting in the room and we heard the familiar jungle tune from Ubuntu as they were firing up the kiosks
<Hobbsee> you must do...
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, yep
<Hobbsee> pity
<Hobbsee> else you could say "i cant get to sydney, kthxdie.
<nixternal> haha
<jussi01> Hobbsee, !!
<Hobbsee> hi jussi01!
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, most centers have a local/magistrates if nothing else
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: pity.
<elkbuntu> supreme tours the centers
<Hobbsee> ahhh
* Hobbsee avoided getting lasered tonight, too :)
<Hobbsee> flashing cop car lights gave it away
<jussi01> nice...:D
<Hobbsee> and everyone was slowing down to see why they'd pulled cars over
* Hobbsee has a problem with laserjock's pony awards
<Hobbsee> the ponies are simply NOT GOLD ENOUGH!
<dqdev> hello there... still on my attempt to fix my 1st bug
<dqdev> have a question
<dqdev> when I look at a bug info
<dqdev> and I choose Assigned to ME
<dqdev> can others work on the bug and file a solution or reported as fixed?
<DarkSun88> Hi
<Hobbsee> dqdev: yes they can - but they likely wont, as they're assuming that you're working on it
<Hobbsee> dqdev: better to subscribe yourself, if you're interested in it
<dqdev> ok, I will
<dqdev> and what exactly does 'wishlist' mean?
<dqdev> that it's not urgent, but they would like to have it?
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> that it's not a bug, ie, a problem with the software, but a "we wish to have this"
<dqdev> ok... then I should really start from there
<Hobbsee> dqdev: i think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs may help you, with the bug stuff
<dqdev> i think that's optimal for newbies as me
<Hobbsee> (and the links off there)
<Hobbsee> start wherever interests you :)
<dqdev> that's a point.... but I have to learn first
<bddebian> Bah, learning is over-rated, I should know ;-P
<Hobbsee> dqdev: true.  dont feel that you need to get it all under your belt, to try with your first bug.  maybe give it a read thru, until you've got a bit of an idea, and then work through with your first bug, etc
<Hobbsee> and feel free to ask for help, here or #ubuntu-bugs
<dqdev> thanks
<dqdev> if you check '#80474'
<dqdev> by desktop file, do they mean an icon at the menu bar?
<jussi01> bug 34246 - is this just now needing a sync from debian?
<ubotu> Malone bug 34246 in libupnp "New upstream version available" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/34246
<ScottK> bug 80474
<ubotu> Malone bug 80474 in ketm "ketm doesn't have a desktop-file" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80474
<dqdev> yes
<ScottK> jussi01: See Bug #80474 again now.
<ubotu> Malone bug 80474 in ketm "ketm doesn't have a desktop-file" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80474
<ScottK> Sorry wrong bug
<ScottK> Bug #34246
<ubotu> Malone bug 34246 in libupnp "New upstream version available" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/34246
<dqdev> does it mean that they would like to have the game added into the games menu =??
<dqdev> btw, under the bug description there is a link, > add a comment/attachment. Could I post questions there as well?
<jussi01> thanks ScottK :D
<ScottK> jussi01: Before you mark one of those fix released, check and see if there is an Ubuntu specific version.  Those don't get automatically sync'ed.  They need to be merged.
<jussi01> ok...:D I usually ask first anyway...
<siretart> btw, can I login to ubuntuforums.org with my lp password?
<Hobbsee> siretart: no
<Hobbsee> siretart: it's separate
<siretart> grr
<siretart> why doesn't ubuntuforums.org allow anonymous ro access?!
<siretart> grrrr
<Hobbsee> siretart: uh, it does?
<Hobbsee> last time i checked
<siretart> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=343383
<siretart> I cannot read that thread. it was referenced in bug #108013
<ubotu> Malone bug 108013 in wpasupplicant "wpa_supplicant doesn't work with ndiswrapper anymore" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108013
<Hobbsee> oh, that was probably moved / jailed or something
<Hobbsee> perhaps it was part of feisty section, and has changed the links when they moved everything
<Hobbsee> siretart: harrassing the relevant parties
<ScottK> doko: There is a problem that I believe it would be helpful for you to take a look at.  I think there is somether very subtle going on with either Python/Python Support in Feisty or kde-guidance.  We seem to be accumulating a variety of import error bugs (note that the first one of the list has 24 dupes).  I think it's worth a really focused look at what's going on under the hood.  I don't know enough unfortunately.  See http://tinyurl.com/2by4ga
<doko> ScottK: this page wants a msn login?
<ScottK> Argh
<ScottK> One second
<ScottK> doko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-guidance/?field.searchtext=ImportError&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
<ScottK> I was trying to save you that url...
<doko> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/
<ScottK> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16591/
<ScottK> doko:  Bug #97507 Bug #92977 Bug #72233 Bug #99550 Bug #103689
<ubotu> Malone bug 97507 in kde-guidance "[apport]  displayconfig-restore.py crashed with ImportError in <module>() - ixf86misc" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97507
<ubotu> Malone bug 92977 in kde-guidance "[apport]  guidance-power-manager.py crashed with ImportError in <module>() dcopext" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92977
<ubotu> Malone bug 72233 in kde-guidance "Unable to remove powermanager w/o making displayconfig-restore unuseable" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/72233
<ubotu> Malone bug 99550 in kde-guidance "[apport]  guidance-power-manager.py crashed with ImportError in <module>() qt" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99550
<ubotu> Malone bug 103689 in kde-guidance "[apport]  displayconfig-hwprobe.py crashed with ImportError in <module>() ScanPCI" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103689
<doko> 72233 looks unrelated
<ScottK> I only left that one in because of Riddel's comment
* ScottK wasn't sure
<doko> 99550: if the guy removes python-qt3, what does he expect
<shawarma> Hm.... MoM is down. Perhaps it's being updated for gutsy?
<pochu> what's mom?
* pochu searches
<shawarma> Merge-o-Matic
<shawarma> merges.ubuntu.com
<pochu> ty :)
<ScottK> doko: I'll follow up on that one.  Oddly enough someone just said they can confirm that.  Odd
<micahcowan> Is it possible to update my launchpad GPG key? I've added a uid to the key... it won't let me simply reupload it, since it's already in the database.
<geser> MoM is down since weeks
<shawarma> geser: it was up this morning.
<ScottK> micahcowan: I did that, but don't recall how.
<ScottK> I think I had to delete it first, but am not sure.
<geser> micahcowan: upload it to a keyserver
<micahcowan> geser, yeah, okay: I couldn't remember how to do that (just knew the LP interface); I'd forgotten I could get gpg to do it for me. :)
<micahcowan> Thanks
<nixternal> what is 'Build-Depends-Indep' used for? It is in the kubuntu-docs package and Lintian doesn't approve of it. Also I am trying to figure out why building a doc pkg with translations takes 8 hours
<nixternal> heh, posted that in the wrong channel originally
<geser> nixternal: build-depends that are only needed to build arch-'indep'endent (aka arch all) packages
<ScottK> nixternal: Debian policy manual Section 7.6 and Footnotes #42
<xxxxx1> have a MOTU here?
<sharms> yup, a bunch of them
<sharms> have a real question?
<sharms> !ask
<ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
* jdong attempts to patch reiser4 onto feisty kernel....
<xxxxx1> yes.
<xxxxx1> i've uploaded two packages
<xxxxx1> trousers and tpm-tools
<xxxxx1> to REVU
<xxxxx1> anybody can verify them?
<xxxxx1> :)
<ScottK> xxxxx1: If you give us the links to the pages on REVU, it makes it easier...
<xxxxx1> yep. sorry
<xxxxx1> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4844
<xxxxx1> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4845
<ScottK> xxxxx1: I'm on my way out the door, so I just started to look.  I know you need to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField and adjust Maintainer accordingly
<sacater> anyone here use SIP, voip, or gizmoproject
<nixternal> what is the difference between, or which is correct => DEB_COMPRESS_EXCLUDE += or :=
<bddebian> Hmm, I have never see := used
<bddebian> seen even
<Jucato> seen it only in Pascal :)
<nixternal> ya, I thought it looked funny
<bddebian> It may be valid, I have just never seen it
<bddebian> I'm kinda dumb ya know :-)
<nixternal> hah, whatevah!
<gpocentek> nixternal: += concatenates the values, := erases the existing value
<nixternal> ahhh, thanks gpocentek 
<gpocentek> np :)
<gpocentek> good evening BTW ;)
<bddebian> Heya gpocentek.  Damn, I was actually going to guess that
<gpocentek> hehe
<LaserJock> micahcowan: ping
<micahcowan> pong
<LaserJock> micahcowan: do you really need to request a sync for texlive?
<micahcowan> What do you mean?
<LaserJock> bug #89675
<ubotu> Malone bug 89675 in texlive-base "TeXlive 2005 is highly outdated" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89675
<micahcowan> bug's not mine: just added details and subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors so it would actually go somewhere. What do you mean by your question?
<LaserJock> well, it'll automatically get synced
<LaserJock> we don't need to request anything
<micahcowan> I think it hadn't been synced in a couple years... but I'll check on that.
<jussi01> hello all
<bddebian> Well it should since Debian is moving to texlive from tetex no?
<gpocentek> hello jussi01 
<bddebian> Hello jussi01
<LaserJock> micahcowan: our version is from 2007-01-18
<LaserJock> I'd hardly consider that outdated
<LaserJock> or not synced
* gpocentek reviews waon
<micahcowan> If that's correct, then I believe the Debain version must have been sorely outdated until recently.
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> the version is 2007
<LaserJock> how long have we been in 2007?
<LaserJock> not all that long
<micahcowan> LaserJock, apt-cache show gives me 2005; where are you getting 2007 from?
<LaserJock> the 2 releases of texlive are 2005 and 2007
<micahcowan> Current sources in feisty are 2005.
<LaserJock> until 1 month ago 2005 was the current version
<LaserJock> we will get 2007 in gutsy
<LaserJock> micahcowan: right, because that was the current upstream version
<LaserJock> 2007 entered unstable on 2007-03-22, way too late for us to put it in Feisty
<micahcowan> Then what is the bug reporter and confirmer complaining about?
<LaserJock> typical stuff
<LaserJock> they want the absolute latest version the second it comes out
<LaserJock> i'm replying to the bug
<LaserJock> and unsubing u-u-s
<micahcowan> Okay, do what you think is right: I use tetex mainly (XeTeX, actually, these days: that may take some work to package for Ubuntu, though, as it doesn't currently work out-of-the-box with tetex's installed hyphenation paterns fro LaTeX), so I'm not familiar with the state-of-the-art with texlive (or even how it differs from tetex).
<LaserJock> me neither
<LaserJock> I hardly us tex at all
<LaserJock> but I've been going through the bugs lately
<jussi01> can i ask a support question as no-one in #ubuntu has answwered me?
<micahcowan> jussi01, unfortunately, no.
<micahcowan> You can get support on the users mailing list, though, if IRC isn't working for you: or the forums.
<LaserJock> micahcowan: I'm not upste with you or anything. We just need to explain people why 2007 didn't make it into feisty
<micahcowan> LaserJock, oh, I know that. But I thought from the bug that perhaps we were using an out-of-date version of "2005", or that perhaps there was a "2006" release that was missed.
<LaserJock> 2006 was late so it actually happened in early 2007
<LaserJock> but yeah, you'd think from the bug report it was the end of the earth
<micahcowan> jussi01, http://ubuntuforums.org for the forums, and https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users for the mailing list (warning: high volume).
<LaserJock> jussi01: what kind of question is it?
<jussi01> LaserJock, i have some dependency hell
<jussi01> ie: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16620/
<micahcowan> jussi01, are you running Kubuntu?
<LaserJock> jussi01: did you try an apt-get -f install?
<jekil> hello
<shawarma> jussi01: bonjour is not an Ubuntu package. 
<shawarma> jussi01: dpkg -P bonjour, and you're good to go.
<jussi01> micahcowan, i tried to install kubuntu desktop
<shawarma> jussi01: most likely, anyway.
<jussi01> shawarma, thanks a million
<shawarma> np
<micahcowan> jussi01, that was why you were directed to ask at #kubuntu; did you?
<shawarma> micahcowan: Well, it wasn't a kubuntu thing either.
<jussi01> yay, now I can get back to packaging. 
<jussi01> gpocentek, thanks for reviewing my package :D
<gpocentek> jussi01: np ;)
<gpocentek> the list of wainting packages on REVU is incredibly long :/
<bddebian> Aye
* bddebian needs to get his arse back to work
<DktrKranz> are gutsy archives open?
<bddebian> Not yet afaik
<DktrKranz> there will be an official news about, isn't it?
<Burgwork> yes
<DktrKranz> ok, thanks
<xxxxx1> please review my packages
<xxxxx1> trousers and tpm-tools
<LaserJock> would a Sun Ultra 10 be good for anything?
<xxxxx1> yes
<xxxxx1> is a good machine.
<sharms> good machine doesnt mean anything, say something tangible
<Pumpernickel> Doorstop? :)
<sharms> ie. Sun Ultra 10 makes a good bzr server, I was able to run a bazaar server with 40 concurrent users
<jdong> sharms: what kind of bzr server?
<jdong> over HTTP?
<jdong> SFTP?
<sharms> jdong: its quite obvious: rfc 2549
<jdong> of course :)
<jdong> suns are great at that :D
<sharms> lol
<jdong> do most of you guys live with pbuilder performance under ext3?
<sharms> I was thinking about getting a new rig for it
<Nafallo> jdong: xfs
<jdong> I'm toying with a reiserfs loopback on XFS right now
<jdong> Nafallo: dude that's worse
<jdong> Nafallo: XFS is great at a lot of things, but not deletion
<jdong> delete pbuilder XFS: 5.4s, Delete pbuilder reiserfs: 0.2s
<Nafallo> I wouldn't dare reiser :-)
<jdong> extract XFS: 19.5s, extract reiserfs: 5s
<jdong> Nafallo: hence why I'm loopbacking :)
<jdong> only mounting pbuilder zone in it
<jdong> of course, running my laptop on XFS is pretty foolish too
<jdong> but I'm desperate, I need large file performance
<sharms> Any new deployments I am in charge of only get ext3, no reisfer
<sharms> and if we get time we are moving all old machines off of it
<jdong> I love ext3 for general purpose
<jdong> but this machine does a lot of torrenting
<sharms> I just cant trust reiser with hans being in jail
<jdong> and ext3 isn't being too great at that for me
<jdong> at the end of a 5.0GB torrent I can read it back at 4MB/s
<jdong> filefrags shows a good 5100 fragments
<LaserJock> well, somebody in my LUG want's to get rid of an Ultra 10 and I wondered if I should pick it up for MOTU work
<jdong> sounds like fun though
<jdong> my roommate just dragged in some computer
<jdong> I looked inside and saw EDO SIMMS
<jdong> I told him to sell off the EDO RAM and send the rest off to recycling...
<sharms> I heard that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash  can really make ultra 10s run good
<LaserJock> shesh
<LaserJock> :-)
<cbx33> hehehe
<sharms> LaserJock: I will post pie charts later
<xxxxx1> bzr is good?
<xxxxx1> is like svn, right?
<sharms> bzr is awesome
<sharms> I use it for several internal projects
<sharms> Does anyone know of a way to revoke nixternal 's membership from ubuntu?
<jdong> sharms: I can set his forum avatar to automatix. would that help?
<ScottK> sharms: What's the problem with nixternal?  That he prefers a desktop with power and flexibility?
<shawarma> ScottK: Yeah. What's that all about?
<shawarma> ScottK: :-)
<sharms> ScottK: oooh burn
<sharms> jdong: ha that would be hilarious
<nixternal> why does pbuilder take so much longer than debuild? pbuilder on kubuntu-docs translations == 8hrs, with debuild == 20min
<jdong> nixternal: probably satisfydeps....
<nixternal> sharms: you know what, me using KDE on Linux is better than you and your Windows obsession
<jdong> nixternal: and that doesn't call moc, does it?
<jdong> anything that calls moc will be dead slow in pbuilder
<nixternal> not that I know of, but then again you just through one over my head a little
<jdong> it will always do a Connection Timed Out....
<nixternal> the slow part is the Makefile and the building of the actual docs
<nixternal> otherwise it seems to run fine
<nixternal> is it due to the fact that pbuilder doesn't use an internet connection? in order to build docs, since they follow a DTD, there are includes that are read from the internet
<nixternal> I am thinking that is the problem
<sharms> nixternal: hey check out the pic I added to my spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash
* nixternal is scared
<nixternal> what is it? my kernel getting hosed from your silly script ;p
<sharms> ha that was a nixternal specific bug
<nixternal> ya, created by sharms 
<nixternal> dude, the wiki stinks
<nixternal> hahahahahahahahahahhaa
<nixternal> omfg!#@#@
<sharms> I figured I got to start doing some marketing
<jdong> sharms: lol you are an advertising beast :)
<sharms> haha
* jdong writes DoublePlusEnhancedBash spec
<Spec> great!
<sharms> I still need to make my propaganda that labels my spec as a "windows vista killer"
<nixternal> sharms: the Internet is the Vista killer anyways
* jdong stifles a reiser joke....
<nixternal> well at least this week, since they all got infected by w/o even knowing about it
<sharms> yeah but imagine if I can make up a super silly article and get it on like osnews.com 
<nixternal> FREE REISER!
<sharms> or dig
<nixternal> ya, I don't read osnews, digg, or /.
<sharms> well I am hip with the kids
<nixternal> they are all propaganda blogs if you ask me
<jdong> digg, lol...
<jdong> look . away. from. comments.
<DarkSun88> Hi
* nixternal kicks pbuilder@#@#
<sharms> nixternal: do me a favor and mark bug #1 a duplicate of 103986 (EnhancedBash)
<ubotu> Malone bug 1 in jl "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> hell no
<sharms> ok ok I'm done
<jdong> lol
<nixternal> I would love to close bug #1 though
* jdong goes and hijacks ownership of bug1
<nixternal> they should just move it to the forums already
<nixternal> or close commenting on it
<sabdfl> evening all
<sharms> uh oh
<sabdfl> happy release party :-)
<sabdfl> hey sharms
<nixternal> hola sabdfl 
<Nafallo> hi sabdfl :-)
<sharms> sabdfl: I thought you were coming because I wanted bug #1 to be marked as a duplicate of #103986 (enhancedbash)
<ubotu> Malone bug 1 in jl "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<sabdfl> everybody happy with the week?
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> sabdfl: nope!
<sabdfl> sharms - launchpad mails me when anybody hovers their mouse over that button ;-)
* nixternal is waiting eagerly for that monkey of a toolchain to start rocking - itchin' for a dist-upgrade
<sabdfl> nixternal: doko's on it
<jdong> sabdfl: ubuntu-land is great, but for the rest of the world this week has been tough :-/
<nixternal> woohoo
<shawarma> Yeah. Feisty is boring. Go gutsy!
<sabdfl> jdong: ?
<sabdfl> who here is in the LP beta team?
* Nafallo doesn't feel good on a released system...
<Nafallo> :-P
<jdong> sabdfl: current events have been pretty tough this past week :(
<nixternal> sabdfl: I am
<Nafallo> sabdfl: me :-)
<sabdfl> jdong: ah, yes. very hard to understand
<jdong> indeed.
<sabdfl> ok, beta testers, i'd love feedback on a new thing in beta.lp.net
<sabdfl> i'll mail about it later
<nixternal> roger
<sabdfl> but in short, you can now offer to mentor a bug, or spec
<Nafallo> okidoki :-)
<sabdfl> and people can see lists of the mentorship offerings
<nixternal> ooh, now that is cool
<Nafallo> nice :-)
<cbx33> sabdfl, did you say the mailing list functionality of LP is there now?
<cbx33> or coming soon?
<nixternal> so I can mentor kubuntu* bugs and let Riddell work on all of them ;)
<sabdfl> cbx33: no, not for a couple of months i'm afraid
<cbx33> doh!
<cbx33> :p
<sabdfl> also, next week the voting starts on new CC nominations
<nixternal> I vote for PETE!
<sabdfl> but i'll announce that separately
<sabdfl> anyhow, xxxxx1 pinged me to ask about getting packages reviews
<cbx33> Pete who?
<sabdfl> he'd uploaded some to REVU, I think
<nixternal> haha you!
<cbx33> heh yeh right ;)
<sabdfl> who's the right person to ping about that?
<sabdfl> xxxxx1: which packages again?
<sharms> sabdfl: can you review some of my planning for future releases real quick: http://www.sharms.org/img/prototype.jpg
<nixternal> hahahaha
<xxxxx1> sabdfl: trousers and tpm-tools
<sabdfl> sharms: we only do cute and cuddly animals, i'm afraid
<nixternal> sharms: please quit playing with MSPain
<sabdfl> in 13 years, i'll be... hoary
<cbx33> sabdfl, we can give yo ua fur suit
<nixternal> mspaint!
<nixternal> hahahaha
<sabdfl> :-)
<shawarma> xxxxx1: What is the trousers package. I think googling "trousers" won't work..
<nixternal> I almost puked
<nixternal> shawarma: lol
* cbx33 gets the sewing machine out
<Nafallo> sabdfl: but that means gutsy+1 won't be Horny Human? :-/
<Nafallo> ;-)
<sabdfl> could be Horny Hammerhead, tho
<xxxxx1> shawarma: trousers.sf.net
<sharms> ha
<nixternal> haha
<xxxxx1> shawarma: i'm using on a TPM project in my company.
<Nafallo> lol
<nixternal> hairy hampster
<nixternal> I know that is the name ;)
<nixternal> it is cute and cuddly
<nixternal> yay spelling
<cbx33> BLARG...
<Nafallo> nixternal: and hamster dance could be popular again :-)
<cbx33> why doesn't openoffice handle comments from MSOffice right
<cbx33> this is VERY frustrating
<nixternal> if anyone can explain to me what is wrong with people in the US, I am all ears. they have a gunman now at NASA
<soothsay> wtf
<nixternal> ya
* sharms gains ops.  Nixternal is kicked from #ubuntu-motu (please try #offtopic, this channel is for discussion of EnhancedBash)
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> you aren't going to live that one down, you should just change your nick to the wiki url
<Nafallo> what's this EnhancedBash-thingie?
<Nafallo> how to bash people properly? :-)
<nixternal> ya, how to bash your kernel listening to sharms
<sharms> I am glad you asked!  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash
<nixternal> err, Grub rather
<nixternal> hahahahahaha
<nixternal> I am glad you asked! classic
<Nafallo> :-)
<sharms> well I only link to it when people ask so I don't spam :)
<nixternal> I heard the Soyuz left space trash during that last trip
<nixternal> and I heard Microsoft wants it back
<LaserJock> sabdfl: did we answer your REVU question?
* LaserJock reads more backlog
<nixternal> LaserJock: nope
<nixternal> I was going to say you, but decided not to
<LaserJock> hehe
<nixternal> they starting talking about wrapping sabdfl in fur, and I about tossed my cookies
<sharms> hey is anyone here who can stand me going to the Oregon conference?
* nixternal scrathes the Oregon conference off his list of places to go this year
<sharms> Ha be careful or I will move back to chicago
<nixternal> LaserJock: I need you assistance
<LaserJock> nixternal: of course you do
<nixternal> sharms: that is alright, I will have crack-head fred rob your car again
<LaserJock> what's up?
<sharms> haha
<nixternal> LaserJock: kubuntu-docs w/ translations takes 8 hours to build with pbuilder and only 20 minutes with debuild
<Nafallo> morning Fujitsu :-)
<nixternal> what gives?
<nixternal> hola Fujitsu!
<jdong> nixternal: got a pbuilder log?
<Fujitsu> Hi Nafallo.
<nixternal> jdong: I could make one, if you are up in 8 hours you can read it
<Fujitsu> Somebody is trying to get themselves killed on -devel-discuss, I would say.
<LaserJock> nixternal: probably dependency resolution
<Fujitsu> Volunteering to help maintain TeX... That's crazy.
<nixternal> the time wasted is during the 'make kdeb' 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: who said that?
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: what are we planning for gutsy mplayer? replacing it with a very small dash-script? :-)
<Fujitsu> Brent Stephens, in the second latest message, a few hours back.
<sharms> Fujitsu: I don't see it yet?
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: Um, hopefully we'll have a 1.0 by then.
<Fujitsu> And it will hopefully actually sort of work.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: LOL. what did you smoke now? ;-)
<sharms> Fujitsu: is this on devel or devel-discuss
<Fujitsu> sharms: -devel-discuss, about 7.5 hours ago.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I'm thinking of an ubuntu-tex team
<jdong> nixternal: just partially dump a log
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I think that's a good idea.
<ajmitch> hi
<jdong> nixternal: pbuilder foo &> log.txt
<jdong> nixternal: and let it run for like 10 minute and paste us the output
<geser> LaserJock: I might consider joining it
<ajmitch> ah, sabdfl is here again, hello
<sabdfl> hey ajmitch
<Fujitsu> Hi sabdfl.
<sabdfl> so, any volunteers to look at those two packages from xxxxx1?
<sabdfl> hey Fujitsu, hapy release week :-)
<sabdfl> erk
<sabdfl> always a p short
<Fujitsu> To you too!
<Fujitsu> Hopefully better than Edgy, at least.
<Nafallo> i only seed 140K. no good release :-P
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I'm on it
<sabdfl> LaserJock: thanks!
<Fujitsu> xxxxx1?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: NB: dh_movefiles usage is considered deprecated
<nixternal> jdong: the output you will get is just pbuilder running through the makefile like it should. for some reason it running through the makefile is what makes it take forever
<xxxxx1> me
<LaserJock> ajmitch: was that me?
<sacater> anyone got any idea when the gutsy beta will be out for devekoping 'i may have asked this, as i am feeling deja vu'
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you're the reviewer :)
<sharms> sacater: I believe you asked 25 hours ago
<LaserJock> ajmitch: oh yeah
<sacater> sharms: then its not deja vu :(
<nixternal> sacater: I wouldn't call it beta, but doko is working on the toolchain as we speak
<sacater> cool
<sacater> good for doku! :P
<LaserJock> sacater: seriously, wait until after UDS
<sharms> I am very scared of gcc 4.2
<Fujitsu> sacater: September 27th is beta, but I'm sure that's not what you were asking.
<minghua> LaserJock, Fujitsu: any of you plan to reply that texlive maintenance email to -devel-disscuss?
<LaserJock> minghua: yep
<minghua> good
<LaserJock> I think it's time for a team
* minghua hope he has more time to contribute in gutsy development
* ajmitch will just make time
<Burgwork> ajmitch: just need to get yourself a job working on ubuntu...or a deriv
<LaserJock> minghua, Fujitsu, geser: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tex
<ajmitch> Burgwork: we'll see
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Now we just need a core-dev to sponsor us.
* Fujitsu looks evilly at ajmitch.
<Fujitsu> When did +mugshots appear for teams? Not a bad idea.
<ajmitch> evilly?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: Mark did it recently
#ubuntu-motu 2007-04-21
<cbx33> Did we revert the GNOME Control Centre?
* cbx33 doesn't see it in feisty
<Burgwork> cbx33: yes, it got nuked
<cbx33> *bah*
<Burgwork> too slow and badly designed
<sharms> I couldnt use it
<cbx33> Now I have to edit the docs again
<cbx33> Damn this book chapter
<Nafallo> Burgwork: upstream, right? :-)
<sharms> It like 5x'd my time trying to find icons
<ajmitch> cbx33: still writing?
<cbx33> no
<Burgwork> Nafallo: is somethign from Novell
<cbx33> just editing before it goes to print
<Nafallo> Burgwork: ugh
<Fujitsu> Oh joy, the Slashdotted `7 things to change when you install Feisty Fawn' says to install Automatix.
<Burgwork> probably is, 2d searching is harder than 1d
<sharms> Well I think novell's implementation of it was somehow better organized
<Burgwork> the problem is too many capplets
<Fujitsu> ... and they recommend installing Beryl from the external repos. :(
<nixternal> LaserJock: docbook-xml wasn't in build-deps ;)
<nixternal> it hasn't been there from day one either, not even in Dapper
<DarkSun88> Good night
<cbx33> is universe on by default now?
<LaserJock> cbx33: yep
<jdong> crimsun: any ideas on bug 96750? I've got a friend here who can confirm the same issue
<ubotu> Malone bug 96750 in alsa-driver "Sound volume control does not work" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96750
<jdong> SigmaTel STAC, ICH6, volume always maximum, does not respond to vol control or mute
<LaserJock> ok, TeX manifesto sent
<cbx33> Is multiverse on by edfault?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I think
<LaserJock> or ...
<cbx33> can someone doubl check
<LaserJock> I don't know actually, I would assume so
<LaserJock> since the new Java Stack thing
<cbx33> I'll check
<sabdfl> no, it should not be on by default
<sabdfl> java needs to get gpl'd, then it can all move to main
<LaserJock> what a happy day that will be
<LaserJock> I've got lots of Chemistry/Edu stuff I want to put in Edubuntu when it does
<cbx33> sabdfl it is on by default in Edubuntu
<cbx33> I have just checked
<cbx33> can soeone else confirm
* ajmitch has to package some java stuff soon for fedora directory server
<ajmitch> much pain
<Burgwork> ajmitch: the web front end stuff?
<ajmitch> no, the admin console
<ajmitch> which is a java app
<Burgwork> right, that is what I meant
<cbx33> anyone able to check the software sources?
<ajmitch> they have custom apache modules for the web frontend :)
<Burgwork> oh joy
<Burgwork> I bet RH loved that
<ajmitch> we'll see what happens with them
<Burgwork> now that they are split out, RH might abandon them
<ajmitch> http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mod_admserv
<sabdfl> cbx33: interesting. might be they depend on some stuff from there
<sharms> eww they still use cvs
<ajmitch> sharms: of course
<LaserJock> lots of things still use cvs
<sharms> 1998 called and wants their revision control back
<sharms> and EGA monitors
<LaserJock> last night I made my first CVS commit
<LaserJock> it was also my first commit on an upstream
<LaserJock> quite fun
<Burgwork> rocking, the fds wiki has a gpl-ed css
<sharms> heh its funny because I bet most people who run cvs repositories are going by the "if it aint broke dont fix it" rule, but it is broke, and hence we have these fantastic revision control systems that spawned to replace it
<LaserJock> Burgwork: question, if you have a GPL'd css does the whole site have to be GPL?
<Burgwork> LaserJock: afaik, no
<sharms> I have switched over to bzr on all my projects, and it is working fantastic
<LaserJock> sharms: well, savannah is still CVS, that's why I have to use it
<LaserJock> it really irritating
<LaserJock> I've totally gone backwards
<LaserJock> I learned Python, then C++
<LaserJock> I learnd bzr, then svn, then CVS
<sharms> ha
<LaserJock> svn is so easy to use
<LaserJock> way more friendly than CVS
<sharms> well if you can use svn, bzr is almost exactly the same
<cbx33> I love bzr and svn
<cbx33> never touched cvs
<LaserJock> cbx33: don't
<LaserJock> if you can possibly help it
<sharms> when I used cvs last I remember it couldnt handle binary files sometimes
<LaserJock> run away as fast as you can ;-)
<LaserJock> I think I saw the other day that mozilla was thinking of going with bzr
<LaserJock> but ended up with Mercurial I think
<sharms> I get worried that bzr might actually be hampered by ubuntu
<ScottK> cbx33: Universe is only on by default for new installs.  If you upgrade and it was off, it stays off.
<sharms> since ubuntu is such a force these days, you have people who want to try and push back against anything related to ubuntu
<LaserJock> ScottK: the question is Multiverse
<ScottK> OK. Dunno on that.  I was trying to make the point that new installs and upgrades are treated differently.
<cbx33> yes
<LaserJock> sharms: I doubt it is that much of an influence. I think about the only thing slowing bzr down is it's speed ;-)
<cbx33> ScottK, multiverse is on too
<sharms> LaserJock: I just get the feeling there is some backlash at times because of ubuntu's success
<LaserJock> could be
<LaserJock> I'm suprised at how well it's doing
<LaserJock> I would think Ubuntu would be a help
<LaserJock> but you could be right for sure
<LaserJock> there is always a backlash against the "big dog"
* sharms starts a campaign of backlash against Jordan "big dog" mantha
<LaserJock> I thought you already had
<LaserJock> "I didn't get a PONY!!!"
<sharms> I just love that pic :)
<LaserJock> yes
<ajmitch> ponies? where?
<sharms> all over the planet
* Fujitsu notes a dinosaur.
<LaserJock> for goodness sakes, people have gone nuts
<sharms> what did I do now
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Where?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: US of course
<sharms> the nasa thing?
<LaserJock> shooting at NASA
<LaserJock> my uni was on lockdown last night
<Fujitsu> Oh, that one.
<LaserJock> high schools and universities all over the place are on lockdown
<LaserJock> I missed the one last night here
<LaserJock> but the ended all the classes and told students to leave
<LaserJock> people in the research labs were sure what they were supposed to do
<Fujitsu> Why would a hostage situation at NASA cause that?
<LaserJock> that didn't cause it
<Fujitsu> Is there another one that I haven't heard about?
<LaserJock> getting bomb threats and people wanting to kill 100 people did
<Fujitsu> Ah, I see.
<LaserJock> there was a shooting in Michagan
<sharms> LaserJock: ah I live in Michigan, where was it
<LaserJock> several high schools had minor ones
<Fujitsu> The US sounds great.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well it is, just got some weirdnesses sometimes
<LaserJock> sharms: well, the person was from Kalamazoo College
<LaserJock> ah, the Kalamazoo one was just a lockdown because of some stuff on a website
<LaserJock> I think there were probably around a dozen lockdowns at school across the country today
<sharms> I wonder what social unrest is causing this
<LaserJock> well, I could go on an on about that, but I'll spare you guys
<sharms> as an american I am the same as I have ever been
<sharms> happily sitting on the computer by day, drinking at night
* ajmitch hugs the forums
<ajmitch> I *knew* checkinstall & autopackage & friends had to come up in gutsy ideas
<LaserJock> I thought they did a pretty good job handling it last I looked
<LaserJock> ahh man, people are already dist-upgrading to gutsy
<LaserJock> we should have a "This will roast your computer, I'm glad you have backups" wallpaper until after UDS at least
<Burgwork> ajmitch: linky?
<ajmitch> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2494015
<LaserJock> "There is nothing wrong with 3rd party binaries. Comments like "they throw stuff everywhere" is just FUD."
<Fujitsu> Er, gutsy doesn't have any packages yet, does it?
<LaserJock> sure
<ajmitch> no, it doesn't
<LaserJock> it's open
<ajmitch> not according to LP, anyway
<LaserJock> it's just a copy of Feisty
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy
<LaserJock> I found gutsy packages
<ajmitch> Source packages:  0
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<ajmitch> then launchpad is confused again ;)
<Fujitsu> It is a copy of Feisty, but Soyuz doesn't seem to know much about it.
<ajmitch> I know there's an unapproved queue already
<ajmitch> with toolchain bits
<LaserJock> well, I was just looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/texlive-base
<LaserJock> and people reported doing a s/feisty/gutsy/ in their sources.list
<cbx33> noooooo
<cbx33> not already
<cbx33> that's insane
<cbx33> hehe
<Fujitsu> Soyuz must be very confused
<LaserJock> well, it's not insane yet
<cbx33> guys
<LaserJock> right now gutsy=feisty basically
<LaserJock> my issue is I hope people aren't like "Oh, well gutsy is fine, what are those idiots talking about it being unstable"
<ajmitch> "ZOMG gusty is SOOOO much fastre than feisty!!!!1"
<LaserJock> lol
<lupine_85> ORLY?
<ajmitch> YRLY!
<lupine_85> cool
* lupine_85 upgrades and gets all his friends to do the same
<lupine_85> bwahahaha :D
<ajmitch> even better, debian isn't half-frozen as it was at the start of feisty
<minghua_> crappy network
<mtm8> Is there a command line only version of ubiquity?
<Flannel> mtm8: You want the alternate CD
<mtm8> Flannel: I'm making a custom LiveCD based on the Desktop CD because I don't want to deal with preseeding with the alternate CD.
<Flannel> mtm8: ah.  Do you have the wiki page for liveCD customization?
<mtm8> Flannel: It doesn't tell you how to do that.
<Flannel> mtm8: Eh?  I never said there was a CLI ubiquity.  Just thought I'd offer some documentation
<mtm8> Flannel: Well, I've already read through a lot of documentation and I'm really hopeful that there is some sort of non-GUI based installer that makes it easy to customize LiveCDs.
<mtm8> Flannel: Ideally, I'd like it if the alternate CD was easier to modify with the setup I have.
<Flannel> mtm8: The file listing for ubiquity doesn't appear to have any sort of CLI version.  But, I dont see how alt CD is so difficult either.  Have you checked the ubuntu documentation on it?
<Flannel> mtm8: this is offtopic for this channel, we should be in #ubuntu-offtopic
<mtm8> Flannel: Yes, it's annoying how preseeding, etc. al works.
<mtm8> Okay.
<ScottK> OK, so you've all left, but I'm just catching up on the scrollback.  I know I should't go look at the forums.  http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2495716&postcount=13  
<ajmitch> ScottK: correct, you shouldn't
<ajmitch> good to see that some people are still ignoring the instructions on the MOTU/Packages/Candidates page & editing it
<Laser_away> yes
<Laser_away> very special
<ajmitch> LaserJock!!
<LaserJock> ajmitch!!
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> LaserJock: got all your specs ready for UDS?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> specs ..
<LaserJock> yeah ..
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> just grab some ideas from the forums & write them up
<jdong> Does anyone have a Dell 9300, 9400, XPS 170, or XPS 1710
<jdong> I've got someone claiming that on all these models, the Master (2 front speaker) volume does not control the subwoofer (Mono Main) at all....
<jdong> which is a really annoying issue because the subwoofer is louder than the 2 front speakers.... :D
* ScottK triages bugs as penance.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock, what's happening
<LaserJock> oh, stuff
<bddebian> "stuff"? :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: I got another freakin' mentor request and I don't know what to do with them all :-(
<Admiral_Chicago> getting that golden pony probably had a lot to do with it
<ajmitch> bddebian: lucky you
<ajmitch> bddebian: I never get any requests at all
<Admiral_Chicago> ajmitch: want to mentor me?
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, you can ask them to come here and tell them that we're working on a mentor mailing list
* ajmitch isn't a deity like bddebian though
<bddebian> ajmitch: I wanted you to mentor me :-)
<Admiral_Chicago> lol
<ajmitch> bddebian: you didn't need it
<bddebian> LaserJock: I have
<bddebian> ajmitch: Yeah right :-)
<ajmitch> Admiral_Chicago: see LaserJock's response above about getting a list
<Admiral_Chicago> i saw, I'll be looking for it
<ajmitch> besides, I know why people don't ask me for mentoring
<ajmitch> they know I'm just grouchy, nasty & mean
<Admiral_Chicago> haha
<jdong> ajmitch: would you be my mentor? :)
<ajmitch> jdong: oh so tempting
<jdong> ajmitch: oh come on we have such compatible personalities :D
<ajmitch> jdong: I'm sure
<jdong> :)
<LaserJock> well, I get asked for mentorship
<LaserJock> but it's never worked well
<LaserJock> I don't think I've had a single one work out well
<LaserJock> maybe it's me
<micahcowan> LaserJock, heh, wow that was quick! :)
<LaserJock> you struck at a good time ;-)
<LaserJock> micahcowan: what do you think of the package list on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTeX ?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Me either really.  It's hard for me to direct someone else when I'm pretty chaotic myself :)
<LaserJock> exactly
* ajmitch needs some food or something
<ajmitch> who wants to get me some pizza?
<LaserJock> I had pizza today
<ajmitch> :(
<ajmitch> I haven't...
<LaserJock> well get some
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> requires effort & money
* Fujitsu reads the `kill the FHS' thread in the Gutsy forum.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: please *don't*
<Fujitsu> Somebody seems to be proposing that /var and /tmp serve the same purpose...
<ajmitch> sure, get them to rm -rf /var & see how happy they'll be
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: But it's fun watching the forum community grow and degenerate... They have their own little community, like an ant farm, with people watching and laughing at them.
<ajmitch> no, it's not fun
<ajmitch> you should be there correcting & leading them towards the light
<Lathiat> wheres the fun in that
<Fujitsu> They're /way/ past the stage where that was possible.
* Lathiat hides
<Fujitsu> They can spew out 333 pages of crap on Feisty in 3 days. They're definitely past it.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: cynic
<Fujitsu> That's me.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: That's a nice reply to the better external package management thread.
<ScottK> It used to say something that might have been interpreted by some as somewhat snide.
<Fujitsu> And I see that somebody has come up with the idea of being able to resize NTFS partitions in the installer. I wonder why nobody had ever thought of that before?
* ScottK got whacked in the head with a dead fish by ajmitch and felt guilty
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Oh, I see you've edited it out :(
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I saw the original.
<ajmitch> ScottK: heh
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ajmitch> ScottK: I wasn't actually referring to your comment, honest
<ajmitch> sometimes you need to throw cold water on ideas
<ScottK> OK.  Well I wouldn't have taken it that way if I didn't feel guilty in advance
<ajmitch> hehe
<Fujitsu> It was a good comment, I think.
<jdong> ajmitch: there's some people that I wish I can freeze in cold water :)
<jdong> but alas there's human rights laws.
<Fujitsu> I wish there was a status field for forum threads... I keep wanting to mark them as rejected :(
<jdong> Fujitsu: lol
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> dn't suppose anyone here records off DVB?
<jdong> Fujitsu: if there were, then the forum council will be up 24/7 handling objections
<ajmitch> jdong: there are some people I'd like to comment on, but the CoC prevents such a thing
<Fujitsu> jdong: Then we expell the forum council.
<jdong> Fujitsu: lol :)
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: revolution?
<jdong> Fujitsu: lead the Revolution!
<Fujitsu> Or just expell the forums. That's a better idea.
<jdong> Fujitsu: sure, we'll redirect everyone to #ubuntu-devel :)
<jdong> that'd be a GREAT april fools joke
<ajmitch> "Believe it or not, I've already changed sources.list.
<ajmitch> You can bet on it"
* jdong jots that one down
<Fujitsu> jdong: Great idea! It'd destroy Freenode.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Where?
<jdong> Fujitsu: we try to do the dirty work for you guys :D
<ajmitch> in the thread about when gutsy is safe to upload to
<Fujitsu> `Repositories for experienced users to test new packages: avoiding breakages'
<Fujitsu> Hm, you know, the development version exists for a pretty good reason.
<ScottK> Ironically we have those...
* Lathiat laughs
<ajmitch> I see there's a thread about how to request packages for universe
<ajmitch> no doubt noone will read it, and will just post requests on the forums
<Fujitsu> only about 6 weeks til the fun begins again  opps it double posted
<ScottK> It'll be equally effective.
<ajmitch> jdong: we love the forums dearly, honest
<ajmitch> they just seem to be a great way for silly ideas to percolate to the top
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: This is why we need Forum Ambassadors to forward every idea to us.
<ajmitch> yay
<jdong> ajmitch: well I do hope you guys are just having fun and joking around :)
<jdong> ajmitch: we try to make it sane for you guys
<emet> hello masters of the universe
<Fujitsu> Hi emet.
<jdong> but there's only so much you could do without the Free Speech Society from hell rising up and engulfing one in flames....
<ajmitch> jdong: you're right, us developers shouldn't bother to go & look there
<emet> how would I get an package in universe?
<jdong> ajmitch: that's not what I meant :)
<Lathiat> post in the forum thread!
* Lathiat ducks
<emet> do I submit the source code and you guys take it from there?
<LaserJock> we encourage people to try to build packages themself
* Fujitsu strangles Lathiat.
<LaserJock> but you can file a request bug too
<emet> but I could not sign said package because I don't have a gpg key, no?
<LaserJock> that's ok
* ScottK goes to read the cygwin mailing list archive to get a refreshing reminder of the true spirit of internet discussion (Mailing list motto: "We're Just Mean")
<DarkMageZ> emet, which peice of software?
<ajmitch> ScottK: I've got debian lists for that
<emet> it's a hangman game
<ScottK> emet: you can create your own PGP key.  That's not a barrier to participation.
<emet> I'm going to release a few games hopefully
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: How's -private these days?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yawn
<emet> http://sf.net/projects/ttygames
<DarkMageZ> emet, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<Fujitsu> I was hoping that -devel would be vaguely entertaining, but apparently not.
<emet> the hangman game should be released in a few day
<ScottK> emet: What's it written in?
<emet> c
* ajmitch detests flash-only sites
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Duh.
<jdong> ajmitch: I don't see what's the big deal, just use automatix to install codecs....
<jdong> :D
<ajmitch> someone please kick jdong 
<jdong> and a merry christmas to you too
<jdong> :)
<jdong> as I said, before, we're a perfect personality match
* ScottK waits for jdong to file Automatix bugs so he can reject those too.
<jdong> ScottK: is that a fun button to push?
<jdong> I guess it's your version of the live-nessus button on the forums....
<Fujitsu> Can we please change the format of Python bytecode in an SRU in a few days? It'd be nice to stuff up Automatix.
<ScottK> We've got fewer upgrade bugs open now that I realized that the upgrader crasher have their sources.list in the logs so I can tell if they've installed it...
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Heh, that's good.
<jdong> BTW, who manages the torrent tracker?
<jdong> it's been down for 24hr+
<Fujitsu> jdong: The Canonical sysadmins, and what do you expect with 6000 seeders?
<jdong> Fujitsu: well... that's a lot of seeders yes
<jdong> meh at least ISOHunt has us covered
<imbrandon> Fujitsu / ajmitch : dident you see , Michael Dell runs Feisty + Automatix2 on his laptop :) ( as per his response to a question on his blog )
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I know D:
* Fujitsu looks at the comments on the PC World article.
<imbrandon> man since feisty released, my website avg upload has been over 3Mb/s , normaly before it was only about 1.5 to 2 ( yes i have spikes over 70Mb/s , but i mean avg )
<imbrandon> i have no idea why
<Fujitsu> Well, apparently all of the issues with upgrading to Edgy were flaws in Ubuntu.
<imbrandon> hows that Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: This mstlyevil guy says that third party stuff and Automatix are not to blame, but `problems associated with Ubuntu'.
<imbrandon> oh ok, i thought you were serious
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> well, we can't just rule it out either
<LaserJock> we had quite a few broken packages
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: There was a very neat correlation between third-party/Automatix package use and breakage.
<Fujitsu> Sure, some of our stuff was broken. But not much.
<imbrandon> well and honesty, have you all looked at automatix2? its supose to be better and do stuff "right"
<LaserJock> yeah, but we need to be careful
<jdong> I think the point was that it was a confounded cause....
<jdong> some combination of automatix and packaging errors
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: We can't look at it, can we?
<imbrandon> i dunno i havent even tried
<LaserJock> I don't know why not
<imbrandon> why?
<Fujitsu> They distribute .pycs.
<imbrandon> i wouldent se why not
<jdong> LaserJock: it's closed source
<Fujitsu> No source, as far as I know.
<imbrandon> what!?!
<jdong> yeah
<LaserJock> really? I thought they were distributing source too
<Fujitsu> For something accused of doing evil stuff in the past, shipping no source is a little iffy.
<jdong> it's all distributed as python object code
<jdong> Ax2 is all closed
<Fujitsu> That's why I suggested changing the bytecode format :P
<imbrandon> wow, how sane
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Uh, yeah.
<jdong> Fujitsu: that'd break half my programming assignments and I'd have to hurt you :D
<Fujitsu> It's obviously very trustworthy.
<Fujitsu> It's written by arnieboy, and cannot be reviewed by others.
<Fujitsu> I wonder how well decompyle works...
<jdong> should work very well
<imbrandon> :)
<Fujitsu> Aw, doesn't do anything > 2.3
<jdong> python bytecode should be very easily revertible to python source code
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: the ponies are simply NOT GOLD ENOUGH.
<LaserJock> sorry
<imbrandon> hehe
<Hobbsee> :P
<ScottK> Good night all.
* ScottK cleans the kitchen and then sleeps...
<LaserJock> man, that just blows me away that it's not open source
<LaserJock> I thought arnieboy GPL'd automatix
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: that means we can change the factoid, which should send more people away from it
<Hobbsee> as we know lots of people hate binary blobs
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: True, that's a great idea.
<Flannel> Hobbsee: The only reason it's not as pointed as it was is that the automatix community complained
<jdong> LaserJock: automatix != automatix2
<Hobbsee> i knew it wasnt gpl, but i thought it was some sort of other, semi free licence
<Flannel> jdong: it still breaks stuff
<jdong> Hobbsee: automatix was GPL
<jdong> Flannel: I'm not saying to doesn't.
<Hobbsee> jdong: and automatix2?
<imbrandon> jdong, but it would be funny as hell if he used some of the 1 code:)
<LaserJock> yeah
<jdong> Hobbsee: closed source
<jdong> imbrandon: LOL
<imbrandon> and i'm sure he did
<jdong> imbrandon: it's a complete rewrite from zenity -> python though
<Hobbsee> excellent.
<Hobbsee> !automatix
<ubotu> automatix is a script that tries to install some software, and often fails and breaks systems. We don't provide support for it, and we strongly discourage its use. Problems caused by Automatix are often hard to track and solve, and it might sometimes be easier to !install a fresh copy of Ubuntu. See also !WorksForMe
* imbrandon just uses vb6 , hehehe ( thats sarcastic if you dident catch it )
<jdong> imbrandon: really? totally thought you were serious :)
<Hobbsee> !no automatix is <reply> Automatix2 is a CLOSED SOURCE script that tries to install some software, and often fails and breaks systems. We don't provide support for it, and we strongly discourage its use. Problems caused by Automatix are often hard to track and solve, and it might sometimes be easier to !install a fresh copy of Ubuntu. See also !WorksForMe
<ubotu> I'll remember that Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> !-automatix2
<ubotu> automatix2 is <alias> automatix - added by apokryphos on 2006-11-02 01:16:55
<Hobbsee> good.
<LaserJock> well, and I was starting to warm up to automatix
<jdong> Hobbsee: can we have a "jdong: you're going to hell" factoid for my famous jokes?
<Hobbsee> jdong: if you like :P
<jdong> Hobbsee: I'd be honored
<Hobbsee> jdong: add it, then :P
<jdong> like !hell or something :)
<jdong> Hobbsee: how? and you guys won't get pissed?
<Hobbsee> jdong: !foo is <reply> bar bling...
<Hobbsee> it'll go to -ops and we can add it
<jdong> Hobbsee: and will you guys add it? :D
<Hobbsee> probably
<Hobbsee> bribes are good
<jdong> lol
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: to be fair, I don't know that we should say "often fails and breaks systems" perhaps s/often/can/ ?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: from the stuf fthat i've seen from #ubuntu - often is quite tru
<Hobbsee> e
<LaserJock> that's because you are only looking at the broken ones
<Hobbsee> true
<LaserJock> there are an aweful lot of people that it works just fine for
<Hobbsee> true
<LaserJock> the thing we want is to be honest and not overblow it
<Hobbsee> on one hand, the extra warnings are good - people are discouraged from trying it
<LaserJock> because there will just be a backlash
<Hobbsee> and both factoids got equal treatment, due to complaints
<micahcowan> LaserJock, how about dvi2ps?
<LaserJock> micahcowan: it might be good
<LaserJock> micahcowan: I was thinking of asking Norbert and Frank about it
<LaserJock> the list i have is the packages that debian-tex-maint maintain
<micahcowan> gotcha.
<micahcowan> apt-cache search --names-only ^tex gives a nice big list. Some of them are probably dependencies of things already listed, but a lot of them might be worth watching separately.
<micahcowan> I'm gonna have to work with the XeTeX guys to make a reasonable package (their current one pretty much sucks). XeTeX lets you use OpenType fonts and Unicode ^_^
<LaserJock> micahcowan: there are 140 packages in the tex section
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> 'kubuntu gremlins from chicago'
<micahcowan> Yeah; but texmacs, texpower, texinfo prolly don't apply LaserJock 
<ajmitch> I wonder who...
<micahcowan> And we may not want to add texlive-doc-* or texlive-lang-*
<LaserJock> micahcowan: texmacs isn't in tex
<LaserJock> nor texinfo
<micahcowan> LaserJock, I know
<LaserJock> one of the first things we need to do is decide on the nofree stuff
<micahcowan> Oh, I thought you were talking about the apt-cache results; I haven't looked at the tex section.
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> mdt dist-grep-dctrl-sources feisty -n -s Package -F Section -e "tex$"| wc -l
<LaserJock> gives 14-
<LaserJock> 140
<micahcowan> mdt?
<LaserJock> multidistrotools
<micahcowan> A lot of those packages don't apply. jadetex, for example.
<LaserJock> that's why I was kinda hoping Norbert and Frank would help :-)
<micahcowan> Why don't we put up a list of candidates for consideration, so we can eliminate the ones that don't make sense/we don't want to support?
<LaserJock> go for it
<LaserJock> I added the base one I think we should probably do
<micahcowan> ok
<LaserJock> we can debate texlive-lang and the nonfree stuff
<LaserJock> I think it's kinda dumb to not have documentation
<LaserJock> I almost asked mark about it when he was around today
<imbrandon> is the gusty toolchain and stuff ready and uploads opened back up, like mark said they would be ?
<imbrandon> gutsy*
* ajmitch wonders if he could get LaserJock's autograph
<LaserJock> I don't think the toolchain is ready yet
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: not afaik
<LaserJock> he said doko is working on it
<imbrandon> hrm, so much for uploads on release day :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: why? so you can sell it on Ebay for $0.01
<LaserJock> imbrandon: he really said that?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea
<ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/unapproved/
<micahcowan> LaserJock, could we set up a mailing list, do you think?
<ScottK> On the Automatix thing...  I recall reading that it did stuff what would break the NEXT upgrade, so worksforme until the next upgrade.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: because you are LaserJock 
<LaserJock> micahcowan: yeah, I was thinking of it
<imbrandon> ajmitch, nice
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, it's pretty darn close
<LaserJock> gutsy is already alive
<LaserJock> but I don't think we can upload yet
<imbrandon> LaserJock, its bettre than 2 weks
<ajmitch> "alive" in the loosest of senses
* LaserJock watches his Launchpad bugs
<ajmitch> imbrandon: in 2 weeks we have UDS
<LaserJock> ajmitch: wel, people are dist-upgrading, that seem fairly alive
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> so if it was delayed that long, it'd be more like 3.5+ weeks
<LaserJock> even if it is just a copy of Feisty
<imbrandon> people are dist upgrading already? smark people i tell ya
<micahcowan> LaserJock, I think before I put a big old list up there, maybe we should decide on general guidelines, first. I'll send an email to the current members.
<imbrandon> smart*, man this lag is killin me
<ajmitch> dist-upgrading to nothing
<Hobbsee> sounds like fun to me :D
<ajmitch> we were joking earlier about how much faster gutsy is ;)
<joejaxx> :)
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> imbrandon: it's a fun day in network world, dist-upgrades are pretty bogged down, and the torrent tracker is offline...
* ajmitch thinks someone should post on the forums about that
<jdong> it's like we should've released on friday 13th
<jdong> ajmitch: I volunteer!
<ajmitch> jdong: I knew you would
<jdong> imbrandon: wouldn't you say ajmitch and I are kinda like soulmates? totally compatible personality? :D
<micahcowan> LaserJock, what package for mdt?
<imbrandon> jdong, yea , right up to the point where he stabs you in the eye
<imbrandon> with a #2 pencile
<jdong> imbrandon: :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, LaserJock : could either of you tell me the /proc/cpuinfo speed for tiber please, i'm lagged to hell
* Hobbsee kickbans more morons
<ajmitch> once I can login
<ajmitch> cpu MHz         : 1666.582
<ajmitch> model name      : AMD Sempron(tm)   2400+
<imbrandon> cool, thanks
<crimsun> jdong: it's "Needs Info".
<jdong> crimsun: oh the ALSA thing?
<jdong> crimsun: I got a followup message from my dude... he says Master controls the front 2 speaker but not the internal subwoofer
<jdong> the subwoofer is controlled by 'Mono Main'
<crimsun> jdong: intentional. That's what 'LFE' or 'Master Mono' is for.
* micahcowan loves this: http://micah.cowan.name/2007/04/18/computers/software-development/code-monkey-like-you/
<ajmitch> hello crimsun 
<ajmitch> micahcowan: that old song?
<crimsun> jdong: it ultimately depends on the AC'97 or HDA codec.
<micahcowan> ajmitch, video's new, I think
<crimsun> hi ajmitch 
<micahcowan> Whoops! I meant to post that to -offtopic...
<ajmitch> micahcowan: I'm on amd64, I can't really tell right now :)
<micahcowan> :(
<jdong> crimsun: the guy claims the same audio hardware is across a long string of Dell products....
<jdong> crimsun: what kind of hacks could be used to "tie" the two channels together?
<crimsun> jdong: ttables (routing), but I'd need /proc/asound/card0/ac97*/* for that
<imbrandon> brb
<jdong> crimsun: ok, he's offline now, but I'll catch him tomorrow and get that info
<imbrandon> hrm i cant find the mirror list on the new LP interface
<Lathiat> launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror ?
* bddebian wonders if he should actually try to focus on something for a change for Gutsy..
<Lathiat> hrm or not
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors ?
<Lathiat> its, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
<Lathiat> heh, yeh
<imbrandon> ahh thanks
<ajmitch> linked straight from the main ubuntu page?
<ajmitch> (main ubuntu page on lp)
<ajmitch> bddebian: sure
<imbrandon> ajmitch, not that i seen
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<ajmitch> there on the left
<bddebian> ajmitch: Like what? :-)
<Lathiat> "Show archive mirrors" :)
<ajmitch> "show cd mirrors"
<ajmitch> "show archive mirrors"
<ajmitch> bddebian: like ubuntu
<imbrandon> ahh my left is blank
<imbrandon> hrm
<ajmitch> bddebian: not that hurd stuff
<imbrandon> fskin ie7
* Lathiat curses at imbrandon 
<bddebian> ajmitch: Pfft, that wasn't what I meant :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: become a core dev
<bddebian> No thanks
<bddebian> I'm not cool enough for that crowd
<bddebian> And actually probably not skilled enough either
<ajmitch> so, neither am I
<bddebian> Yeah right
<bddebian> jellyfish: Welcome!
<jellyfish> ello
<jellyfish> so how do i start now?
<bddebian> Now, get to work. ;-P
<bddebian> jellyfish: Did I happen to send you the URL for the packaging guide?
<jellyfish> nope =)
<bddebian> !packaging guide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<bddebian> Both of those links can be helpful
<bddebian> Oh, hrm there's 3 there
<bddebian> Ignore the /New one for now :_)
<jellyfish> okie sure
<bddebian> jellyfish: Do you have (or do you even know about) a pbuilder environment?
<bddebian> Sorry to throw so much at you but I have to get to bed very soon
<jellyfish> i did read on a thread about building packages on a clean-room enviromend
<jellyfish> it's @ http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=206382
<bddebian> Aye, that's it
<bddebian> Are you currently running Feisty?
<jellyfish> unforunately nope
<bddebian> Ubuntu at all? :)
<jellyfish> yup 
<jellyfish> but using 6.10
<bddebian> Edgy?
<jellyfish> yup nt yet upgrade to the new release
<bddebian> That's OK.  You can build a Feisty pbuilder on an Edgy machine
<bddebian> actually you could create several different distros on any given machine
<jellyfish> is it better to use a pbuilder or a virtual machine for clean room compilation?
<bddebian> TBH I never us vm's so I can't answer that but pbuilder works well.
<bddebian> s/us/use/
<DarkMageZ> pbuilder. less performance loss over a vm.
<jellyfish> okie so i start to learn using pbuilder
<bddebian> It's one of the tools you will want to know yes
<bddebian> As I said, I have to head to bed but if we can hook up again soon we can either look at a tiny bug together or once Gutsy opens up we can play with some merges.
<bddebian> Or we could even grab some packages off of REVU and take a look, just to get you exposed to the building "experience" :)
<jellyfish> hmmm... wat's your timezone?
<bddebian> Eastern US
<bddebian> It's 1am atm and I'm old :-)
<crimsun> 1_Wake Up Dead.flac
<jellyfish> hmmm... mine is GMT+8
<crimsun> err, sorry
<jellyfish> don't worry I try to adjust my timing so i can hook up with u
<nixternal> boo
<nixternal> and yes bddebian, you are old
<joejaxx> merges sound fun
<jellyfish> bddebian mind letting mi know wat's your GMT
<ajmitch> nixternal!
<imbrandon> if its one am for him, should be GMT-5 iirc
<nixternal> what did I do now
<jellyfish> okie thx =)
<nixternal> actually he is GMT-4 now due to daylight savings
<nixternal> imbrandon: we are GMT-5 now
<imbrandon> oh :)
<imbrandon> whoops
<jellyfish> argh... DST 
<nixternal> it took me forever to figure that out during the Paris summit
* joejaxx always gets the dst timezone thing messed up
<jellyfish> have most of u upgrade to the new release?
<imbrandon> yea
<joejaxx> jellyfish: since feisty opened :P
* Hobbsee attempts to upgrade to gutsy pbuilder
* nixternal waits for gutsy to open up all the way
<joejaxx> nixternal: me too
<nixternal> Hobbsee: I tried, it bombed earlier
<Hobbsee> ahh, we have something there now
* Hobbsee adds gutsy to madison lite config too
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!!!
<bddebian> Gah, I lost him already just going to have a smoke, wtf..
<nixternal> rock on
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: uploaded the world to gutsy yet?
* nixternal is pbuildin'
<Hobbsee> not yet - pacificnet doesnt have gutsy repos yet, so i'll try it with just archive
<ajmitch> awww
<joejaxx> vmware
<joejaxx> bah
* joejaxx has too many terminals open
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you'll be sorely disappointed with the complete lack of difference from feisty
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you?
<bddebian> Oh well, gnight gang
<Hobbsee> awww
<ajmitch> night bddebian 
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: what did you expect?
* Hobbsee pounds fists on the table in protest
<joejaxx> Goodnight bddebian 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: but i must have my upgrades...i must, i must!!!
<joejaxx> lol
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: debian sid --> that way
<Hobbsee> oh good, there are new packages in gutsy
<zakame> heh
* ajmitch will just do pbuilder the easy way
<jdong> OH F*****
<Hobbsee> aww, it still says it's feisty, though
<jdong> I just typed bad blacks instead of bad BLOCKS in a thread
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, in pbuilder, of course
<ajmitch> jdong: well done
<jdong> ajmitch: why thank you :)
<jdong> ajmitch: see? soulmates, I tell you.
<ajmitch> don't push it
<Hobbsee> jdong: did you fix the forums?
<ajmitch> by fix, you mean "completely removed", right?
<jdong> Hobbsee: what's broken?
<jdong> everything, I know.
<jdong> :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: heh
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i wish
<micahcowan> Is apt-get's -d option only meant to apply to the "source" command (download without unpacking), or am I supposed to be able to run apt-get install -d foo? When I try that as non-root, it still attempts to lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock.
* imbrandon boytcots the forums untill the google ad's are reomved
<imbrandon> what am i talking aobut i boycot them anyhow
<joejaxx> everyone look at this while you can :)
<joejaxx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/
<ajmitch> joejaxx: why?
<ajmitch> bugs generally aren't targetted against a release anyway
<joejaxx> ajmitch: the pie chart is all green 
<joejaxx> :P
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: well, they are targetted at a milestone
<Burgundavia> they shoudl be one and the same
<LaserJock> micahcowan: sorry, I was afk
<LaserJock> micahcowan: mdt is not in the repos. You can get a bzr branch though
<zakame> micahcowan: -d | --download-only right?
<micahcowan> zakame, yeah.
<Hobbsee> come to think of it...at least we know that automatix2 will never ever make it into the repos then
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: they should be,but usually aren't
<micahcowan> I just reread the docs, and it definitely looks like it should download, but not install, so I'm going to file a bug about the fact that it still requires root currently.
<LaserJock> micahcowan: bzr branch http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/multidistrotools should get it for you
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: YAY1
<ajmitch> ;)
<micahcowan> LaserJock, thanks
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: Multiverse?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: never
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: that is another LP wierdness
<LaserJock> Multiverse includes a multitude of sins ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: and automatix2 won't be one of them
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: MOTU has the power to veto that
* ajmitch will ship enough beer to archive admins to convince them of that
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> that too
<ajmitch> and I'll tell pitti & keescook how bad & nasty it'll be for security
<micahcowan> LaserJock, you have context listed, but apt doesn't seem to know about it (there is a texlive-context).
<ajmitch> micahcowan: source package name?
<micahcowan> ...oh. Yeah, probably.
<micahcowan> Nope.
* elkbuntu pounces on LaserJock
<elkbuntu> thanks for the pony :)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: thanks for the honorable mention :)
<imbrandon> zomg look at p.d.o, automatix2 for etch , http://stratusandtheswirl.blogspot.com/2007/04/breaking-your-debian-etch-with.html
<joejaxx> it is really in the debian archive?
<ajmitch> hello elkbuntu 
<ajmitch> joejaxx: no
<joejaxx> so are there any other brave people who are going to run gutsy when the archive is fully populated
<elkbuntu> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, that worried me, we'll have to talk to stratus
<joejaxx> ajmitch: oh ok i was about to say lol who let that in
<ajmitch> joejaxx: I hope you weren't really going to say 'lol'
<joejaxx> no
<ajmitch> that would be embarassing to say that out loud
<joejaxx> yeah
* ajmitch might run gutsy in a few weeks
<joejaxx> me too
<joejaxx> that should be funny
<ajmitch> or months
<ajmitch> depends when I can be bothered
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: no problem ;-)
<ajmitch> ah, the mythical ponies
<crimsun> ponies? where?
<LaserJock> micahcowan: context is a newish package
<ajmitch> laserjock's place
<ajmitch> judge's decision is final, no correspondence shall be entered into, etc
<micahcowan> LaserJock, Debian-only?
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, unless you're hobbsee and threaten with the long pointy stick ;)
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: nah, I'm pony-less & ok with it
<LaserJock> micahcowan: well, it probably missed Feisty
* ajmitch has to be all alone for the next 6 months :)
<micahcowan> LaserJock, does it extend tetex, then? texlive seems to have had it for a while
<Hobbsee> haha
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: I hope that they don't let her take that long pointy stick on the plane
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, so am i. i have to fly with her
<elkbuntu> s/am/do/
<Hobbsee> heh
<ajmitch> I feel sorry for you
<elkbuntu> we'll make sure to bitch about you the whole 29+ hours
<elkbuntu> ;)
<ajmitch> that's fine, I won't hear it
<Hobbsee> definetly :P
* elkbuntu hugs ajmitch
<ajmitch> it's only a week in seville & then back to sanity
* highvoltage rolls over and falls out of bed
<ajmitch> hello highvoltage 
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: I'm sure you won't have much to gossip about anyway :)
<LaserJock> micahcowan: I think it's for texlive
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: you need to package elisa
<Burgundavia> it rocks
<LaserJock> micahcowan: at least it deps on texlive rather than tetex
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, that doesnt matter. we'll just make stuff up
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: never heard of it
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: ok
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: http://elisa.fluendo.com/
<Burgundavia> basically, media centre done right
<Burgundavia> built on top of gstreamer
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> remind me why I need to be the one to package it?
<LaserJock> because you da man!!
<Burgundavia> because I luv j00?
<crimsun> because you're pony-less & ok with it
<ajmitch> aw isn't that so sweet
<Burgundavia> <bats eyelashes>
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: isn't FDS enough for you?
<Burgundavia> want this now!
<ajmitch> oh right
* Burgundavia is two beers in
<LaserJock> man, the warm fuzzy feeling is just all over this place :-)
<elkbuntu> hehehe
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: sure, I'll whip up a package in 10 minutes
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: actually, they already build ubuntu/debian packages
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, careful, he'll hold you to it
<Burgundavia> so steal their source packages
<ajmitch> even more useful, I don't need to do anything
<LaserJock> checkinstall and go
<LaserJock> ;-)
* StevenK kills LaserJock. Brutally.
<Burgundavia> automatix!
<ajmitch> *stab*
<LaserJock> ouch
<LaserJock> what is this dagger doing in my back?
<crimsun> it's texlive.
<lifeless> et tu automatix ?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: you assume there are source packages, of course
<LaserJock> but darn it, there's a .deb
<LaserJock> isn't that enough?
<ajmitch> of course
<Burgundavia> clearly, with the power of automatix, it will be
<LaserJock> can't you reverse engineer a source package?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> change deb... to deb-src
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: I hate to tell you this, but you know that lovely desktop-multiplier package you built? soon you will be able to install it via automatix
<ajmitch> and there they are
<Burgundavia> techalign and userful are partnering
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: ah well, at least I learned some debconf
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: that's good
<LaserJock> and got some spending money
<LaserJock> but, tbh, they are a match made in heaven ;-)
<Burgundavia> and xorg is inching closer to a completely free multiseat
<Burgundavia> indeed, my thoughts exactly
* ajmitch wonders who techalign are
<Burgundavia> xorg is probably going to be using HAL to enumerate input devices
<Burgundavia> pioneer linux
<ajmitch> input hotplug!
<Burgundavia> the kubuntu deriv
<LaserJock> a commercial deriv
<Burgundavia> yep
<LaserJock> that sponsors Automatix now
<Burgundavia> apparently so
<elkbuntu> so now users have someone to sue?
<Burgundavia> I have no idea
<elkbuntu> it would be incredibly funny to watch
<highvoltage> hello ajmitch!
<ajmitch> highvoltage: ah, you are alive ;)
<ajmitch> just getting your morning coffee? :)
<Burgundavia> presumably they realize just how many customer computers they are going to be screwing up
<LaserJock> isn't that what somebody said about Canonical's business model?
<elkbuntu> something tells me 'no'
<LaserJock> why fix bugs if you make money on support?
<highvoltage> ajmitch: yes, and catching up with hilights from the last ~36h :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why create work for your support team?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you've read too much of the forums
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I'm guessing a good 50% are sacater's
<ajmitch> hah
* ajmitch didn't talk about highvoltage (much)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: wel, perhaps not 50%, but a very god amount, yes :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: somebody asked Jane Silber that at the Ubucon I think
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why so many from sacater? :)
* Hobbsee wonders about the support tracker versus the forums
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: ahhh
<LaserJock> big debate there
<LaserJock> in Paris the forums guys wanted to replace the support tracker with the forums
<LaserJock> but Mark squashed that one
<ajmitch> that's funny
<StevenK> Ewwww
<Flannel> Techalign sponsoring Automatix doesn't surprise me.  Their website isn't consistent, and has jewels like this one:
<Flannel> TA maintains three (2) separate divisions
<StevenK> Hah
<Burgundavia> wow
<LaserJock> esentially they'd really like to integrate the forums more into launchpad
<Burgundavia> that is userful smart
<LaserJock> but since Launchpad is more than Ubuntu it's not a good idea to integrate Ubuntu-specific stuff
<jdong> "I possede a PC of occas DELL optiron, p4 1.7 ghz 128 of RAM DD of 80 giga the mother chart has the 2 port ide hs"
<jdong> people should really stop trying to use automatic translators
* elkbuntu tries to imagine ubuntugeek's ego if he were running the whole support system
<jdong> it doesn't exactly turn it into English.
<Hobbsee> urgh
<StevenK> I want a motherchart in my machine
<Hobbsee> no, but the thought of getting hte forums people to answer support requests isnt so bad
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: don't. your head will explode
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: sure, if they're answering with "install automatix"
<jdong> StevenK: you've gotta first giga the mother chart.
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, ah, so that's what that throbbing sensation is..
<jdong> ajmitch: nobody's answering with install automatix!
<StevenK> jdong: :-P
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: especially when the support tracker sucked
* StevenK is quite happy ignoring the forums
<jdong> single-sign-on between LP and the forums would be pretty sweet
<LaserJock> the forums can be great
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: point
<LaserJock> they can also be really really bad
<jdong> but it's not killer
<StevenK> jdong: That also helps for bug filing.
<LaserJock> jdong: yeah, single sign in is cool
<jdong> LaserJock: same can be said about any other support medium that contains in excess of a million people
<Hobbsee> jdong: no it wouldnt.  then the forums users would file stupid bugs on the bugtracker
* Hobbsee has seen a bug with topic "a" and text "a"
<LaserJock> jdong: excactly
<StevenK> Or doesn't, thanks Hobbsee.
<Burgundavia> forums have a much broader audience and thus have a broader range of tech skills
<Burgundavia> unlike, say, us
<LaserJock> the current "link to a LP bug from forums" is cool
<LaserJock> but they wanted to go the other way around
<LaserJock> link to the forums from LP
<LaserJock> and that's where LP's generalization becomes an issue
<ajmitch> ooh, Hobbsee posting to forums
<StevenK> ajmitch: Where?
<ajmitch> she's just telling people off, don't worry
* ajmitch notes Hobbsee shows off her developer creds in the signature :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: haha, yes
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i do that, occasionally
* ajmitch should get a drink
<ajmitch> maybe of beer
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's useful to be able to say "i know what i'm talking about" - they tend to shut up after that :P
* highvoltage should get some water
<ajmitch> highvoltage: no, it's the weekend
<ajmitch> beer 
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: really? they usually just start insulting me
<ajmitch> LaserJock: they don't often insult me
<StevenK> And this is why I ignore the forums.
<ajmitch> mmm, beer
<StevenK> Since it's so easy to post, people don't think.
<ajmitch> StevenK: like irc?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Touche
<ajmitch> except the forums are a permanent record
* elkbuntu pats ubuntulog
<jdong> and there's meanies like me going around
<ajmitch> irc is ephemeral
<highvoltage> ajmitch: ok, it is only 08:19am here, but I'll see if can find a beer :)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: having the documention team creds with a join date of 2004 makes peopel listen
<jdong> and issuing brownie points for the most amusing insults.
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: I have forum user id 7777
<ajmitch> a nice round number
* elkbuntu doesnt even know her forum id#
<ajmitch> Total Posts: 40 (0.05 posts per day)
<elkbuntu> damnit, now i'm going to actually *go* there an check
* ajmitch is a legend
<jdong> ajmitch: a long lost legend :)
<ajmitch> 40 posts in 2+ years
<jdong> ajmitch: do you at least have the dev badge?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: where is tghat number listed?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I wonder what mine is, probably 6666 ;-)
<ajmitch> jdong: hah no
<ajmitch> jdong: I don't need it
<jdong> ajmitch: you confuse me :)
<jdong> Burgundavia: in the URL of your profile page
<imbrandon> i think i have litterly 3 posts
<imbrandon> and no dev badge ;)
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: who would be the person to email about a mailing list request?
<ajmitch> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=18410
<imbrandon> LaserJock, rt@
<ajmitch> jdong: why?
<jdong> ajmitch: why don't you want a dev badge?
<Burgundavia> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=446 <-- hmm, I have a low number
<ajmitch> a very low number
<jdong> Burgundavia: you're one of the early guys then :)
<Burgundavia> yep
<ajmitch> jdong: I don't deserve one
<jdong> ajmitch: what?
<jdong> Burgundavia: you're even lower than me :)
<LaserJock> I have 137 posts it seems
<Burgundavia> that was pre-warty, even
<ajmitch> LaserJock: aren't you the addict?
<LaserJock> I'm #18410
<jdong> Burgundavia: yeah , it must've been; I joined right around warty
<elkbuntu> 36048
<Burgundavia> warty was the next day
<imbrandon> hrm wondersa what # he is
* ajmitch must have joined the forums at the same time he became a MOTU
* jdong checks
<LaserJock> jdong: ajmitch wants to be able to flame retards with anonymity
<LaserJock> I don't blame him
<imbrandon> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=80394  ,  Total Posts: 3 (0.01 posts per day)
<Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_James_Remnant <-- heh
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ssshhh
<jdong> Help
<jdong> User: imbrandon (id: 80394)
<imbrandon> i beat ajmitch , only 3 posts :)
<imbrandon> jdong, http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=80394  ,  Total Posts: 3 (0.01 posts per day)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: curses!
<ajmitch> jdong: there, you can tag imbrandon as a developer
<jdong> imbrandon: you want a devtag while I'm in here?
<imbrandon> sure
<LaserJock> jdong: can I get a MOTU Diety tag? ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: Deity
<LaserJock> Deity
<jdong> LaserJock: haha as soon as someone makes one :D
<LaserJock> darn it, I just can't spell that stupid thing
<jdong> LaserJock: and it has to pass the forum mob
<imbrandon> whats the tags do ?
<jdong> imbrandon: boosts your ego?
<LaserJock> how about "Ubuntu Rockstar"? :-)
<imbrandon> oh
<jdong> imbrandon: makes people listen to you a lot more, basically :)
<imbrandon> ah ok
<ajmitch> jdong: HAH
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it lets people know that your not pulling it out of your ...
<elkbuntu> do we cool people who dont dev get anything? :(
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: a hug?
<imbrandon> heheh
* LaserJock hugs elkbuntu 
<LaserJock> and hands her a pony
* imbrandon hug *
<jdong> elkbuntu: a hug and maybe brownies....
<Flannel> elkbuntu: We get a "Im not a dev but still listen to me" tag
<StevenK> imbrandon: Get away, I don't know you that well. :-P
<elkbuntu> hehe
<LaserJock> bbiab
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> imbrandon: you want to be tagged developer?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> since i am one , i guess :)
<StevenK> elkbuntu: It just means we teach them? :-P
<imbrandon> not that i post much
<jdong> tada!
<jdong> imbrandon: developer :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: congrats!
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i guess its official now the forum has it
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> exactly
<jdong> of course!
<ajmitch> you're not a real developer until then
<imbrandon> heh
<jdong> certainly not :)
<imbrandon> hrm etch or feisty for the /home and ldap server ajmitch , i'm loading it now
<jdong> but you can be a soulmate of jdong....
<ajmitch> imbrandon: feisty
<imbrandon> k
<jdong> imbrandon: a mix of both!
<jdong> I bet there's a forum howto on that
<jdong> </joking... hopefully>
<ajmitch> imbrandon: we'll upgrade bits of it to gutsy as required
<imbrandon> k
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> beer gone :(
<imbrandon> it has one 120 pata drive and 3 160 sata drives
<imbrandon> :)
* jdong gigas his mother chart
* ajmitch goes & trolls the forums
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, you alco!
* imbrandon goes to load feisty
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: hey that was the first one in a week!
<ajmitch> I had to celebrate feisty release some time
<elkbuntu> you could have savored it
<ajmitch> shall I savour another?
<ajmitch> or there's still some whiskey in the cupboard, which is great for savouring
<highvoltage> where do I see my forum ID# ?
<elkbuntu> hehe
<StevenK> Geeez, can people wait before filing sync requests.
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> they cannot
<StevenK> Well, you're right, they can't.
<ajmitch> we were filing sync requests for feisty just before it opened
<ajmitch> when there were ubuntu changes that could be dropped
<ajmitch> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=98867
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> g'day ajmitch
<jsgotangco> la la la and the bug reports keep on flowing...
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> dance in the rain of new bugs!
<jsgotangco> ugghhh some guy is assinging bugs to himself
<ajmitch> that's usual
<ajmitch> for needs info bugs
<ajmitch> crazy, but true
<jsgotangco> that makes triage harder especially if the one assigning isn't part of the correct team right
<jdong> oh *SHUDDER*
<jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=395344
<jdong> yay conexant debs.
<StevenK> Experience is directly proportional to the value of equipment destroyed. - Carolyn Scheppner
* StevenK cackles.
<jdong> on the list of things you NEVER want to hear from dpkg....
<ajmitch> jdong: oh that, I saw that reported earlier about virtualbox, too
<StevenK> jdong: That isn't a serious problem, it means it was installed manually with dpkg -i
<jdong> StevenK: read down a bit
<ajmitch> not entirely sure why apt claims it must be reinstalled, but oh well
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: what pains me is that if a bug reporter (usually a newbie) makes a report on an older release, the first one jumping say, run it on fiesty which isn't a good answer really
<jdong> StevenK: he got the infamous package in a very inconsistent state error....
<ajmitch> jdong: I've had that
<ajmitch> it's moderately annoying
<jdong> ajmitch: I have too... and it was usually caused by like a hard shutoff or something
<StevenK> It can worked around.
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: we have several well-meaning people trying to help out
<jdong> ajmitch: and fixing it is nasty
<ajmitch> jdong: nah, not necessarily
<StevenK> It can also be caused by the package being completly brain-dead
<jdong> StevenK: I'm guessing that's part of the culprit here
<ajmitch> it can be solved without hacking dpkg files at all
<jdong> there's conexant HDA soft modem drivers...
<jdong> ajmitch: really?
<StevenK> jdong: I'd suggest that the user modprobe the 4 modules it wants and then purge it like he was doing
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: that's true though, but who's the current bug master at the moment?
<StevenK> If you can make the postrm exit 0, dpkg will be cope and kill it.
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: bdmurray?
<jsgotangco> right
<ajmitch> bye Laser_away 
<ajmitch> we'll miss you
<jdong> well time to call it a night....
<jdong> good night everyone
<highvoltage>  goodnight jdong 
<imbrandon> gnight jdong 
* highvoltage wonders why jdong quits with a pirate windows key
<jsgotangco> lol
<ajmitch> because jdong is like that
<StevenK> Hum.
* StevenK tries to remember if perl has trim.
<imbrandon> sub trim($)
<imbrandon> { my $string = shift; $string =~ s/^\s+//; $string =~ s/\s+$//; return $string;
<imbrandon> }
<imbrandon> hehe :)
<StevenK> Ew
<imbrandon> he that was 2 seconds, i dident say it was perfect :)
<imbrandon> hey*
<ajmitch> StevenK: I agree
<imbrandon> brb
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: has simon law and/or ian jackson left canonical?
<ajmitch> iwj is certainly still around
<imbrandon> i dont think ian has /yet/ that i know of, no idea about simon
<ajmitch> I haven't seen sfllaw lately
<Burgundavia> what is ian doing?
<jsgotangco> it seems sflaw left
<imbrandon> firefox among other things
<jsgotangco> as well as rodrigo
<Burgundavia> I knew about rodrigo, I didn't realize simon did as well
<Burgundavia> I am not shocked, qa is a bloody hard
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Burgundavia> http://sfllaw.livejournal.com/
<Burgundavia> top entry
<ajmitch> I didn't know that simon left
<ajmitch> a real shame
<jsgotangco> im gonna attempt to swim on these 250 unassigned in xorg hehe
<ajmitch> I was looking forward to drinking with him in seville
<jsgotangco> yeah simon is fun
<ajmitch> since I owed him a drink from last time :)
* ajmitch has known him online for a few years now
<Burgundavia> http://akoha.org/
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> looks web2.0 dot-comish
<imbrandon> yea thats a shame
<jsgotangco> interesting
<imbrandon> hopefully he will still be a semi-active part of the community
<imbrandon> though
<imbrandon> guess i should fixup some of those debian BTS bugs for apt-mirror for lenny/gutsy
<StevenK> Right. That should have beaten my mirroring script into some semblance of saneness.
<imbrandon> my "mirror" script is quite simple hehe
<imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$ cat /usr/local/bin/mirror
<imbrandon> rsync --delete-after -a -v -r -z -P rsync://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu /storage/files/ubuntu/rsync/
<imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> StevenK, ajmitch , crimsun , and those others of you going to Spain, what do you think of my ( used loosely ) Blueprint Idea http://www.imbrandon.com/index.php/2007/04/12/blueprint-idea/
* Fujitsu trolls the fora.
<StevenK> imbrandon: I simply don't have the hard drive space for that.
<StevenK> imbrandon: I'm using debmirror, and a little bit of complexity because debmirror is brain-dead.
<StevenK> imbrandon: I'm not going to Spain.
<StevenK> imbrandon: EWWWW
<imbrandon> ??
<StevenK> imbrandon: Your Blueprint idea
<StevenK> imbrandon: Just ship both in the package, it being incredibly easy to do, simple and doesn't involve splitting every package that provides an init script into 3.
<ajmitch> massive archive bloat
<ajmitch> elmo will hunt you down & kill you in your sleep
<StevenK> Yup. The archive admins/canonical sysadmins would hunt you for sport.
<imbrandon> that requires every maintainer in debian to agree that they need the initi script ( plus would install init scripts for 2 init systems ( maybe conflicting ) on the same box
* StevenK high fives ajmitch
<StevenK> imbrandon: /etc/init.d is less than a 1Mb
<StevenK>  /etc/event.d is 22K
<StevenK> So who cares about less than 1Mb of hard drive space?
<StevenK> If you say embedded, I will kill you.
<jussi01> morning motu's!
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> well even if you did non init scripts in packages and put them all in one, like upstart-init and sysv-niit
<imbrandon> or something would work out the same
<StevenK> That already happened
<imbrandon> ( and far less packages , only 2 or 3 more )
<StevenK> So nyah
<StevenK> Not every init script mind you, just base
<imbrandon> hum ok, maybe i should look a little more into it
<imbrandon> as i said in the begining of the post, just an idea
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: If you want elmo to clear a spot for your head on his wall, sure, float it.
<imbrandon> StevenK, hehe
<Fujitsu> Yay, gutsy-changes is alive.
<RAOF> Oh, time to subscribe :)
<ajmitch> it's been alive for awhile  now
<Fujitsu> Well, the first email was about 40 minutes ago.
<ajmitch> you just need to catch up :)
<imbrandon> moins anibal 
<Fujitsu> Hi anibal.
<Fujitsu> Thanks for the sponsorship a few days back.
<anibal> Fujitsu, NP :)
<ajmitch> hello anibal, koke 
<anibal> ajmitch, hola :)
<anibal> imbrandon, moins :)
<Fujitsu> anibal: What brings you to these parts?
<imbrandon> that was fast ( koke, join/part )
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, anibal ( idles ) here alot :)
<jsgotangco> huh nasa standoff?
* jsgotangco just looked at the news now
<npodges> can anyone point me in the right direction for creating .deb packages from source + adding a launcher to the gnome main menu in the package?
<Fujitsu> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<Fujitsu> npodges: ^^
<Fujitsu> npodges: For the menu entry, you want a .desktop file. Some upstream sources already contain them, but you might have to write one.
<DarkMageZ> for examples on how to add these .desktop files. you can just checkout other packages which already have them :)
<npodges> thanks!
<npodges> time to go package llk_linux
<npodges> ;)
<DarkMageZ> llk_linux?
<npodges> http://sourceforge.net/projects/llk-linux
<npodges> it's a semifun puzzle game that uses pokemon images as tiles
<npodges> O.o
<Fujitsu> Sounds nice and copyright-breaching.
<npodges> haha, yeah i'm sure it is
<npodges> i only wanna package it for the purpose of learning packing
<npodges> you guys make it hard to find good software that's not packaged.
<npodges> ;)
<DarkMageZ> once your skill levels have risen. i've left a peice of software for a new person.
<imbrandon> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2154184680.html
<jsgotangco> imbrandon: yeah those via boards are really neat, we have lots of them over here mostly SBCs
* Fujitsu upgrades to 1-day old binutils checkout. Yay, CRACK!
<npodges> okay, it's like four here, time for bed. Fujitsu + DarkMageZ, thanks
<Fujitsu> Night, npodges.
<StevenK> Has gutsy had any uploads worth a damn yet?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: binutils and tzdata are the only two accepted ones.
<Fujitsu> There's a few other things in UNAPPROVED, though.
<Fujitsu> Evening, Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu 
<jussi01> hello Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi jussi01 
<anibal> Fujitsu, I contributed a bit to ubuntu sometime ago :)
<Fujitsu> anibal: OK, I guess I'd never thought to look for you on this side of the fence.
<ivoks> does anyone still has hoary enywhere? :)
<ivoks> anywhere..
<imbrandon> as in installed?
<ivoks> yes... i would like to try rebuilding one package for it :/
<imbrandon> oh, nope
<ivoks> if possible :)
<imbrandon> just use a horay pbuilder
<imbrandon> :)
<ivoks> yeah.. but where do i get debs from? :)
<imbrandon> the arcives still ahve the debs
<imbrandon> archives
<imbrandon> they just arent updated
<ivoks> oh... right
* ivoks dumb
<ivoks> thanks :)
<imbrandon> hrm looks like i need to pickup a nother Motherboard for the server ajmitch 
<imbrandon> this one isnt gonna do
<imbrandon> hrm store opens at 10am ....
<damko> hi all
<Lamego> Hello
<Lamego> anyone able to help me with CDBS ?
<Hobbsee> can try.  what about it?
<ajmitch> depends what you need to do with it
<Lamego> simple, I need it to not override the CFLAGS which are alaready defined on the Makefile
<RAOF> Lamego: I actually looked at this some time ago.
<RAOF> As far as I can tell, you have to edit one of the CDBS rules, which unconditionally sets CFLAGS to some sane defaults.
<Lamego> It insists on passing CFLAGS=-g -Wall -O2
<RAOF> Indeed.
<RAOF> You want to grep /usr/share/cdbs for that.
<Lamego> well, that means I will need to change the original makefile, to use another var name
<Lamego> I am not going to change the cdbs templates :)
<RAOF> Fair enough.
<Lamego> I had some hope there was an option to avoid this
<RAOF> Why does it need special CFLAGS?
<RAOF> Actually, you could probably set CFLAGS to what you want it to be in debian/rules, now that I come to think of it.
<Lamego> well, the original source Makefile is using CFLAGS with all the required flags
<RAOF> But the Makefile is surely being regenerated by ./configure, right?
<Lamego> sure, but that means I will have to check that instead of using the upstream makefile wich does work flawless with "make" ;)
<Lamego> not, it does not use autoconf/configure, it is a hand made Makefile
<Lamego> I am using the automake class
<_filippo_> hey i've written a little gnome game and for the next release i'd like to make it acceptable to enter ubuntu repositories. Someone said that it _must_ have a man page.. is it true?
<RAOF> _filippo_: Yup.  Everything in /usr/bin has a man page.
<Lamego> games go into /usr/games :D
<RAOF> But it doesn't have to be very big, if there's not much to say :)
<Lamego> _filippo_, is the game already available ?
<_filippo_> Lamego: the 0.1 version, yes
<_filippo_> www.autistici.org/gnome-mastermind
<Lamego> _filippo_, is it playable ?
<RAOF> Lamego: The automake class sounds wrong, if you're not regenerating the makefile.
<_filippo_> yes
<Lamego> ah, i saw it on gnomefiles :)
<_filippo_> Did you tried it?
<_filippo_> :P
<Lamego> RAOF, the automake class is for when you have a base Makefile, as far I could understood
<_filippo_> Lamego: so if i put it in /usr/games i don't have to provide a man page?
<Lamego> _filippo_, not yet, because of the "0.1", but since it's playable I will package and release it on getdeb
<RAOF> It just sounds like automake/autotools, which is all about regenerating your Makefiles :)
<_filippo_> Lamego: it's quite stable and playable but i'm going to release 0.2 soon because a guy from tango send me brand new icons :D
<Lamego> _filippo_, I am not a MOTU, I have no idea, it is a good practice to have a manpage, not sure it is a requirements but I did saw some reviewers asking for the man page
<Lamego> when do you plan for the 0.2 ? To save me time to not build the .1 :P
<Lamego> _filippo_, do you have any experience with debian packaging ?
<RAOF> It's trivial to write a man page.  It'll take you approximately an hour, and that's including learning how to write a man page :)
<Lamego> does it contains a .desktop file ?
<Lamego> 1h for something that no one will read, a graphical game manpage :P
<_filippo_> Lamego: maybe today or within next days..
<\sh> moins
<RAOF> Good evening.
<_filippo_> i'm not experienced in debian packaging
<_filippo_> RAOF no gnome game have a man page
<_filippo_> Lamego: 0.2 will contain desktop files, polish and italian translation, and some bugfix
<Lamego> _filippo_, I can help you, or build it for you, except for the political aspects of it, like digging for the copyright messages
<\sh> guys, did anybody successfully started vmware-server on feisty? I get always this strange message of missing version information of vmware/lib/libpng12.so.0 (required by libcairo bla)
<jussi01> \sh: runs fine here
<ajmitch> \sh: works for me
<RAOF> _filippo_: Eh, well, if it installs into /usr/games, it probably doesn't need a manpage then :).
<ajmitch> \sh: amd64?
<\sh> ajmitch: intel dual core
<_filippo_> Lamego: If you would build it for me it would be great! political issues have been already reviewd buy gna.org guys where i host the project
<ajmitch> yes, but what arch? :P
<jussi01> \sh there was some weird setup though - i found it on the forums
<\sh> I used the mware any any update 109
<_filippo_> s/buy/by :P
<ajmitch> are you running it on i386 or amd64?
<\sh> ajmitch: i386 only
<\sh> no emt64 mode ;)(
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> shame
<\sh> it's just this png issue
* ajmitch would have said that it'd be ia32-libs{,-gtk}
<Lamego> _filippo_, joao.pinto@getdeb.net, just send me an email when you have 0.2 ready, I will publish it on getdeb only, you will have to get the diff.gz and purse for the MOTU approvals
<_filippo_> RAOF: by default it goes in /usr/local like every software.. prefix is a maintainer decided thing. I could just suggest it.
<Lamego> pursue
<RAOF> _filippo_: Well, we seem to have a /usr/games in Ubuntu, and that's where the Gnome games are...
<\sh> /usr/lib/vmware/bin/vmware: /usr/lib/vmware/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2)
<Lamego> as long prefix can be defined at build time :)
<\sh> that's the message
<\sh> and linking the systems lib doesn't work
<Lamego> _filippo_, it is using a plain autoconf configure right ?
* ajmitch loves apps that ship their own libs
<Lamego> ajmitch, applications love different distros providing imcompatible versions of libs :)
<_filippo_> Lamego: i'll send you an email as soon as i release next version and then we'll talk again about the path to follow to enter repositories (thanks ;D)
<Lamego> ok :)
<_filippo_> Lamego: yes it use autotools
<Lamego> ok, so /usr/games is just the bindir option :)
<Lamego> nothing you need to care about as long you have a proper install rule
<_filippo_> Lamego: i think install rules behave right. I'll make some more test with /usr/games prefix
<Lamego> _filippo_, well, just make sure it has an help page, for those which don't know the mastermind game (newer kids don't :P)
<Lamego> _filippo_, test it with: ./configure --bindir=/tmp/usr/games
<Lamego> ;)
<_filippo_> Lamego: it doesn't have an help page yet. But i'm already documenting myself on how to make it 
<Lamego> ok :)
<\sh> ajmitch: did you make a clean install of feisty or just dist-upgrade from edgy to get vmware work...I'm really stucked
<ajmitch> dist-upgrade, but I'm using amd64
<\sh> ajmitch: ah 
* ajmitch hasn't tried it at all on the laptop for months
<_filippo_> Lamego: i've just added you to my contacts. You'll be the first aware of next release ;) thanks!!
<Lamego> ok, thanks :)
<Lamego> back to my problem, any other tip on how to force it to not override CFLAGS ?
<Lamego> i mean, it, CDBS with automake
<RAOF> Lamego: You could (possibly) unset CFLAGS in debain/rules?
<Lamego> RAOF, btw, i mean't makefile.mk, not automake :P
<Lamego> hum, how do I unset a variable on a makefile ? unset ?
<RAOF> But I'm not actually sure how your Makefile fails if you set CFLAGS.  That implies that it's reading the env variable CFLAGS, but you say that it's already hard-coded to the right value?
<Lamego> anyway, it wouldn't fix it, becaue cdbs is calling make all CFLAGS=$CFLAGS
<Lamego> which would do CFLAGS=
<Lamego> and overried it anyway, with a void value
<Lamego> RAOF, /usr/bin/make  -C . CFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CXXFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CPPFLAGS="" LDFLAGS=""  
<Lamego> this is how debian/rules binary is "making" the make
<RAOF> Ok, looks fine.
<RAOF> What I was asking was, "why is setting CFLAGS to something breaking your Makefile"?
<Lamego> no it does not, because CFLAGS is also defined on the Makefile, and thats the CFLAGS I need :)
<Lamego> yes
<Lamego> CFLAGS=$(DEFS) $(INCLUDES) -O3 -march=i486 -ffast-math -fexpensive-optimizations
<Lamego> :P
<Lamego> well, and the same for LDFLAGS , which is actually the problem
<RAOF> That should override whatever is passed in, though?
<Lamego> RAOF, that was what I thought, but it does not
<Lamego> the make command line parameter set overrides the file based
<Lamego> gcc -g -Wall -O2  -o obj/misc/sys_linux.o -c misc/sys_linux.c
<RAOF> Cool.  Well, worst case scenario is you patch the makefile with a bit of "sed s/CFLAGS/STUPIDFLAGS/"
<RAOF> Make sure that's an actual patch, of course :)
<Lamego> RAOF, I did that for another package, it does work, but that's an ugly hack
<RAOF> Then use debhelper rather than CDBS.
<Lamego> hum, let me try to override DEB_MAKE_BUILD_TARGET
<Lamego> RAOF, that is also ugly :P
<RAOF> Nothing wrong with debhelper, it's just not so totally automated.
<Lamego> well, i will go into the hack option, rename the LD_FLAGS on the makefile
<Lamego> I am bored :P
<RAOF> Bored?  Could you hunt down some democracyplayer bugs then? :P
<Lamego> nope, I just package, bug hunting is for developers :P
<Hobbsee> doesnt packaging make you a developer?
<RAOF> Not if you package to getdeb :(
<Hobbsee> oh yes, the one without the sources, so could be entirely crackful?
<ajmitch> be nice
<Lamego> no, developing and compiling are different processes which required different skills, you need to understand a build process to be a developer, you don't need to have development skills to build
<Lamego> also, usually building uses some minimal standard processes, while developing or bug fixing requires you to understand how the application was coded
<RAOF> Heh.  Not really :)
<Lamego> unless it is a trivial bug, like a wrong path or similar
<RAOF> You'd be *amazed* how many trivial bugs there are.
<Lamego> but again, even for trivial patches you need to have some development experience :)
<Lamego> grr, broken install rule
<siretart> greetings from a local LUG event. Feisty install count is already 2 :)
<jsgotangco> yay
<jsgotangco> bling bling
<Hobbsee> woo!
<ajmitch> hey siretart 
<jekil> hello
<jsgotangco> hrmm how does this cube spinning work
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> ctrl+alt driection just switches not spins
<\sh> wtf...Subject: [Build #319733]  amd64 build of xmms2 0.2DrHouse-3.1ubuntu3 in ubuntu gutsy RELEASE
<\sh> gutsy is already open? ,-)
<DktrKranz> no, AFAIK
<Nafallo> \sh: seems like it. just waiting for maswan to sync ;-)
<Lamego> /tmp/ccYj5v7j.s:1127: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `mov'
<Lamego>  - amd64 - any idea on this error ?
<DktrKranz> I received some emails too
<ajmitch> \sh: yep
<DktrKranz> wait: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=3&queue_text=
<siretart> \sh: see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy - status: Pre-release Freeze
<DktrKranz> it seems so!
<Nafallo> still a.u.c has folders for it... :-)
<Nafallo> I just keep my feisty entries around for now :-)
<siretart> \sh: so things have been created in launchpad and the mirrors, but the publisher and the archive processing machinery is still in manual mode
<ajmitch> Get:1 http://apt-proxy gutsy/main tzdata 2007e-3ubuntu1 [317kB] 
* ajmitch dives in with the first super-dangerous update
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> Fel http://se.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 2001:6b0:e:2018::137 80] 
<Nafallo> :-P
<DktrKranz> merges.ubuntu.com is unavailable, any news about it?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> be patient :)
<DktrKranz> of course :)
<\sh> ajmitch: anything new from your laptop? ,-)
<ajmitch> \sh: wait until I have it updated & rebooted
<ajmitch> \sh: good news, it does exactly the same for me on i386
<\sh> ajmitch: running or throwing the error?
<Lathiat> hrm 170K/s from se.archive over IPv6
<Lathiat> not bad for ipv6
<ajmitch> \sh: error & doesn't run
<\sh> ajmitch: oh wow...I'm fcked
<ajmitch> there'll be some solution :)
<\sh> ajmitch: how? ,-) modules are fine, just this png/cairo prob...
<\sh> and I need my vmware windows installation to extract my vpn certs ,-)
<ajmitch> \sh: are you getting a theme error as well?
<\sh> ajmitch: nope...just this libpng issue
<\sh> ajmitch: are you running compiz/ beryl?
<ajmitch> yes, compiz
<ajmitch> though that doesn't stop it running on my amd64
<\sh> ajmitch: try to run normal gnome/kde/ without compiz/beryl crap
<\sh> ajmitch: but the libpng issue will stay
<ajmitch> metacity is running now
<ajmitch> no go
<\sh> ajmitch: and all hints from dr. google are explaining us: "overwrite libpng12.so.0 with the systems one.." doing it, vmware won't start
<ajmitch> \sh: strace shows it segfaulting after trying to load a libdbus-glib-1.so.1
<\sh> ajmitch: hmmm...there was something I found having to do with libdbus
<ajmitch> yeah, it's crashing on read/write on the dbus socket
<\sh> ajmitch: what would be a good solution...dbus is vital ;)
<elkbuntu> ffs.. the feisty installer suX0r for doing logical partitions :(
<ajmitch> k, got it running
<ajmitch> evil LD_PRELOAD
<ajmitch> LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libdbus-1.so.3 vmware
<xopher> elkbuntu, what's the difference between a logical and an extended partition?
<ajmitch> \sh: hope that helps :)
<elkbuntu> xopher, a logical partition is like a container for other partitions, a way to cheat the 4 partition limit
* ajmitch just uses lvm
<ajmitch> much cleaner
<xopher> I see, thanks
<\sh> ajmitch: you are my man...you made my day 
<ajmitch> \sh: strace helped a lot :)
<\sh> ajmitch: so wrapper-gtk24 is broken somehow, right?
<ajmitch> *something* is very broken
<ajmitch> like a lib that they ship that's linked against old dbus, that isn't being overridden
<DarkMageZ> xopher, an extended partion is a container for logical partitions... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning
<\sh> ajmitch: argl.
<ajmitch> \sh: I don't know, that's as far as I got
* ajmitch has no free diskspace for VMs on the laptop
<elkbuntu> DarkMageZ, ah right... i always mess up the terminology.. still.. the installer sux0r
<\sh> ajmitch: I'll work on it
<DarkMageZ> elkbuntu, i lost points in an exam for getting it the wrong way round once :(
<elkbuntu> DarkMageZ, that'd suck
<DarkMageZ> atleast i got a half mark for understanding the concept
<elkbuntu> thank goodness gparted comes on the cd
<DarkMageZ> anyone going to wish me luck on my building firefox against QT mission?
<elkbuntu> nah
<ajmitch> \sh: you should get some time off & get to seville :)
<\sh> ajmitch: no ways...I have to move places from cologne to karlsruhe on first of june, I want to go to LinuxTag the last week in may...and I hope my boss is not canceling my holiday for this date...I'm busy as hell..even my GF is complaining
<ajmitch> aw
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: figured out all your travel plans? :)
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, yep
* ajmitch just has to hope that there'll be a taxi or something at the airport at 11pm
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, and i get into seville around 1pm
<ajmitch> on the friday?
* ajmitch gets in after 11pm on saturday night
<ajmitch> so I can get my 5 hours sleep & be ready for specs bright & early ;)
<elkbuntu> yeah the friday
<elkbuntu> you will probably succeed in getting more sleep than those of us at the Ubucon. sladen seems to have promised the locals all-night partying or something :-/
<ajmitch> sounds like fun
<mr_pouit> mmmh, revu is doing weird things :] 
<mr_pouit> my review was too long, he 'crashed', but it was sent by mail :] 
<ajmitch> such as?
<mr_pouit> the full review was sent by mail, but doesn't appear on revu ^^"
<ajmitch> fun
<ajmitch> too large for the DB field, perhaps
<ajmitch> if it's as long as you said
<mr_pouit> yes, that was too long (over 2048 or something)
* ajmitch checks list
<ajmitch> a comment on scribes?
<mr_pouit> yes
<ajmitch> interesting
<ajmitch> something for siretart or sistpoty to look at :)
<mr_pouit> ^^
<\sh> grmpf...why do i need a special contract to download ciscos vpn client...
<ajmitch> because cisco are special
<pochu> The following packages will be upgraded: tzdata [2007b-0ubuntu1 -> 2007e-3ubuntu1] 
<pochu> yeah! :)
<ajmitch> oh dear
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<geser> Hi DarkSun88
* \sh thinks he likes pain a lot
<StevenK> \sh: You keep playing with wine?
<\sh> StevenK: sure..and trying to install cisco vpn client on feisty...whatever CHECKSUM_HW is, it fcks with me now ,)
<\sh> ha
<\sh> http://www.tuxx-home.at/projects/cisco-vpnclient/vpnclient-linux-2.6.19.diff this helped
<Fujitsu> \sh: Why not use vpnc?
<\sh> Fujitsu: just because it doesn't work , friend tried it already on debian with our cisco firewall
<Hobbsee> wow, i featured in behind motu
<StevenK> Heh
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<Q-FUNK> bug 108556
<ubotu> Malone bug 108556 in upgrade-system "KDECdromProgressAdapter instance has no attribute 'progressbar'" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108556
<Q-FUNK> yet another case of someone assigning their bug to a random package
<superm1_> imbrandon, ping
<ScottK> You all have all the fun conversations while I'm sleeping...
<DJ-Lethal> hola
<DJ-Lethal> alguien ke sepa espaol?
<sladen> DJ-Lethal: #ubuntu-es
<tsmithe> does debian/ubuntu use the FHS or another standard, i can never remember?
<geser> the FHS
<tsmithe> cool
<ScottK> tsmithe: bug: #108577
<ScottK> Err bug #108577
<ubotu> Malone bug 108577 in pulseaudio "pulseaudio esd wrapper is not working with gnome" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108577
<tsmithe> oh damnit :P
<gpocentek> hello world
<ScottK> Hello
<marseillai> hi
<marseillai> i'm looking for some help
<marseillai> since 3 days i'm trying to make a cdbs package of manslide, and i'm totally failing! my package is always empty
<ScottK> marseillai: I don't know packaging C programs, so I can't help other than to say don't give up.
<marseillai> ScottK: it's QT4 program ...
<ScottK> OK.  I don't know that either.
<ScottK> Sorry
<marseillai> oki
* ScottK has packaged Python and Perl stuff.
<marseillai> it's hard to find up2date tutorial on CDBS
<ScottK> Agreed.  cdbs is like black magic.
<gpocentek> marseillai: could you upload your source package somewhere?
<gpocentek> I'll have a look
<marseillai> ScottK: and there some great magician people around him! :) may be some wizard
<marseillai> gpocentek: yes of course
<gpocentek> cdbs rocks :)
<marseillai> gpocentek: ftp://marseillai.homelinux.org/manslide.tar.gz
<gpocentek> marseillai: downloading
<marseillai> oki
<gpocentek> oh, thunar-thumbnailers on REVU, nice 
<sacater> hey guys, how do i access the firewall settings?
<jussi01> sacater, through iptables commands or install firestarter
<sacater> okies
<sacater> jussi01: and what command do i run?
<jussi01> sacater, I cant remember them, what are you tring to do?
<ScottK> sacater: Working with iptables directly is pretty complex.  Unless you want to make a real study of it, install firestarter
<gpocentek> marseillai: did you try to install the software on your system?
<LaserJock> wahoo, I get the Ultra 10 :-)
<LaserJock> joejaxx would be proud
<_MMA_> :)
<LaserJock> now I gotta figure out where to put it
<LaserJock> luckily from the pics/specs I dug up on it it isn't going to be as big as I thought
<gpocentek> marseillai: the Makefile seems broken: gauvain@joe:~/dev/MOTU/manslide/manslide/Manslide-1.5.3$ sudo make install
<gpocentek> make: Rien  faire pour  install .
<jussi01> LaserJock: I want a pony!!
<LaserJock> jussi01: well, work hard and maybe you'll get one for Gutsy ;-)
<jussi01> LaserJock: I will... :D
<pwnguin> so if a debian developer is complaining that they don't see patches from ubuntu, where should i direct them to?
<LaserJock> pwnguin: patches.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> pwnguin: and packages.qa.debian.org
<pwnguin> is patches up?
<LaserJock> pwnguin: sorry, I think I gave you the wrong URL for that one
<pwnguin> ive seen it in various "lets play with debian!" specs
<pwnguin> but they're so old i wonder if launchpad took over that role
<LaserJock> not really
<LaserJock> they are feed to Debian though
<LaserJock> *fed
<LaserJock> so really debian maintainers should look at there PTS page
<pwnguin> via?
<LaserJock> pwnguin: got a particular package in mind?
<pwnguin> fetchmail is the one he mentioned in particular
<pwnguin> ubnubtu catches that it's different
<pwnguin> but it doesnt seem to pass this on to anyone
<pwnguin> (but ubnubtu is a debian system i guess)
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> Ubuntu does send the patches
<pwnguin> what if the debian version is higher than ubuntus?
<LaserJock> hmm, that might take out the patch on PTS
<LaserJock> I'm not sure
<LaserJock> but there was a little thing on the left sidebar that had a link to Ubuntu patches
<pwnguin> you have an example?
<LaserJock> I'm fairly certain it's patches.ubuntu.com or changes.ubuntu.com that has the patches
<pwnguin> i suppose its possible patches is down due to feisty
<LaserJock> yes, I'm fairly certian
<LaserJock> virtually everything was down due to feisty :-)
<LaserJock> well, in any case. Ubuntu does provide patches
<LaserJock> they often aren't chunked up into individual patches like maintainers might like
<LaserJock> but they are there
<pwnguin> well nion's position is that he hasnt ever seen any
<LaserJock> and we definately encourage people to push patches upstream
<LaserJock> well, tbh, he hasn't really looked then
<LaserJock> we've been over this several times
<pwnguin> heh
<LaserJock> we've given links to the Debian community
<pwnguin> yea, there's about ten dead specs ;)
<LaserJock> pwnguin: yeah, it's patches.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> it's just down at the moment
<LaserJock> which might be why PTS isn't showing them
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> funnay
<pwnguin> for some reason
<pwnguin> the fetchmail package gets its own maint
<pwnguin> through ubnubtu
<sacater> ScottK: firestarters working fine :D
<ScottK> Cool
<\sh> re
<davromaniak> slomo_, are you here ?
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<DarkSun88> Are opened the archives of Gutsy?
<LaserJock> DarkSun88: I think the archives exist but I don't think it's ready for uploading yet
<DarkSun88> LaserJock: Ok, thank you. :)
<damko> hi all
<blueyed> Hi. I'd like to build a .deb for kopete (with a patch), but do not want to debuild the whole kdenetwork meta package.
<blueyed> How's that done?
<ScottK> blueyed: Just build the whole package.  It doesn't take THAT long to build.
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-motu 2007-04-22
<ohmega> is there any reason why the startup bug in azureus is not being fixed? it seems ridiculous to keep a package in universe that does not work when upstream works fine.
<ohmega> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azureus/+bug/57875
<ubotu> Malone bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus does not start" [High,Confirmed]  
<Fujitsu> ohmega: Why not fix it?
<jdong> ohmega: I thought that was fixed in Feisty
<ohmega> I still have this problem with feisty.
<jdong> my Azureus starts fine with Sun Java6... but of course crashes in compiz and beryl
<crimsun> that bug report is absolutely awful
<crimsun> no less than four of the comments are vitriolic and contribute absolutely zero to the debugging
<Fujitsu> crimsun: How? I darenm't look at them any more.
<crimsun> further, there appear to be at least three different reports munged into that one bug report
<crimsun> ohmega: which of those issues are you experiencing?
<ohmega> the consensus seems to be that 2.5.0.4 works for everyone, why bother with an older version then?
<jdong> ohmega: an upstream 2.5.0.4 works for everyone, as does an upstream 2.5.0.0; the problem seems to be the build process
<jdong> ohmega: we do not upload binary packages to Universe... they must build with the gcj Java stack, and apparently there is an error in our build process....
<ohmega> oh ok
<jdong> so now the million dollar question is... why is it broken? :D
<crimsun> some people report it's the branding patch
<Fujitsu> Because it's Azureus.
<crimsun> if it's as simple as reverting its application, then we can do an SRU
<jdong> I guess it's worth a shot to set up some -proposed packages with that, and see if it fixes anything
<ohmega> hm, i'll try building it without the patch then perhaps
<jdong> maybe a pre-proposed package :)
<Fujitsu> Maybe fix it in Gutsy first, then confirm that it actually works?
<jdong> does the compiler stack work in Gutsy yet?
<jdong> gcj seems like russian roulette at times
<ohmega> this is strange, build-dep for azureus fails. where do i get libswt-gtk-3.2-java?
<ohmega> oh sorry. never mind.
<ohmega> hm, so if i don't apply all the ubuntu patches when i build the azureus package it works fine.
<ohmega> thus the build process argument seems to be incorrect.
<ohmega> (it crashed on my setup when i built my own package with the patches)
<jdong> ohmega: you have a gig of RAM?
<jdong> gcj seems to need a good gig of RAM to put it together
<ohmega> uhm?
<ohmega> i don't know how much it used. i have 2 GB
<jdong> ok
<ohmega> i suppose i'll just apply the patches one by one and rebuild the package till it fails now..
<ohmega> ah.. finally i get some use out of all these cs classes ;)
* ohmega uses binary search ;)
<ohmega> bad patch identified! :)
<tenshu> hello there =) someone can tell me when uplod to gutsy will be opened?
<ohmega> ok, who do i tell to pull this bogus patch out of azureus so we can have a working azureus in universe?
<crimsun> "us"
<ohmega> ok, remove 07_azureus-themed.dpatch then
<ohmega> please :)
<crimsun> right, I stated that above.
* crimsun looks at his bug list and sighs
<ohmega> oh you did, i didn't notice?
<crimsun> tenshu: we can upload already, but buildds won't process anything.
<tenshu> okay crimsun can i start to upload new package to REVU?
<crimsun> tenshu: revu is not tied to the Ubuntu upload infrastructure. You can upload anytime to revu (as long as your email+key are in the revu uploaders keyring)
<tenshu> ok =) thank you crimsun
<ohmega> crimsun: will you upload a new azureus?
<ohmega> or should i prepare a new package myself and send to someone?
<crimsun> ohmega: follow SRU procedure. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ohmega> are ubuntu packages in a RCS somewhere so i can look at previous changesets to a package?
<nixternal> permission to remove sharms and his weakenedbash script from civilization?
<LaserJock> nixternal: now now
<LaserJock> ohmega: you can grab the previous version from Launchpad
<ohmega> ah ok.
<ohmega> do i need the ~proposed suffix for my package or is it ok just to rebuild it with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot?
<LaserJock> are you doing an SRU?
<ohmega> yes
<ohmega> or well i don't have any sponsore
<ohmega> -e
<LaserJock> then you'll want ~proposed1 in the version
<ohmega> ok sigh, complete rebuild then
<ohmega> ;)
<ohmega> do i add the ~proposed1 thing in the changelog or do i do it with dpkg-buildpackage?
<LaserJock> ohmega: changelog
<ohmega> can i just edit the changelog manually or must it be done with the tool?
<LaserJock> it's best to do it with dch -i
<LaserJock> just to make sure the formating is correct
<ohmega> oh i already have an entry, it's just the version number that's not correct (no ~proposed1)
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> then just plain editing is fine
<ohmega> ok good :)
<ohmega> who is my sponsor?
<LaserJock> you need to have a MOTU check out the changes
<LaserJock> the general way to do that is to subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team to thebug
<ohmega> ok, done
<ohmega> where do i upload to?
<crimsun> attach the debdiff to the bug repotr.
<crimsun> report, even.
<ohmega> i generated these .build files etc
<crimsun> you should have two .dscs and two .diff.gzs
<ohmega> yes
<crimsun> debdiff old.dsc new.dsc > new.debdiff
<ohmega> ah ok.
<ohmega> crimsun: ok, done.
<ohmega> anything else I should do?
<ohmega> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azureus/+bug/57875
<ubotu> Malone bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus does not start" [High,Confirmed]  
<pochu> ohmega: wait for a motu to review it ;)
<crimsun> ohmega: have you verified that is doesn't crash after several minutes?
<crimsun> s/is/it/
<boss> Hello. How is kickstart integration going into Ubuntu so far?
<crimsun> ohmega: also, you shouldn't /remove/ the dpatch. Just don't /apply/ it. In other words, the only change necessary is to remove the dpatch from debian/patches/00list.
<ohmega> ok
<boss> I'd love to see something like this: http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/custom-guide/s1-redhat-config-kickstart-pkgs.html in Ubuntu.
<boss> It only shows ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop as of right now I believe.
<ohmega> crimsun: ok, how does it look now?
<crimsun> ohmega: the distribution should be feisty-proposed, not feisty
<ohmega> +azureus (2.5.0.0repack1-0ubuntu2~proposed2) feisty-proposed; urgency=low then?
<crimsun> ohmega: also, use the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClosingBugsFromChangelog syntax (LP: #57875)
<crimsun> yes
<ajmitch> what a version
<Fujitsu> That's nothing.
<Fujitsu> 2.5.0.0repack1-0ubuntu0.6.10~proposed1
<Fujitsu> Hm, that versioning is wrong, ohmega... It should be -0ubuntu1.1
<ohmega> wtf?
<Fujitsu> Updates to stable releases use -XubuntuY.Z
<ohmega> ok
<Fujitsu> (and a ~proposed1 on the end of that for proposed)\
<ohmega> are my other attachments to the bug report proposals so that this next version is proposed3 or are they still proposed1?
<ohmega> http://librarian.launchpad.net/7383802/proposed3.debdiff
<pochu> ohmega: proposed1
<pochu> since it hasn't been uploaded to the repos
<ohmega> ok
<ohmega> (is it possible to remove all my spam from the bug report?)
<boss> So if a package was developed when Feisty was still in beta but is still in REVU, what is the new syntax that the Changelog should reflect? gutsy; urgency=<most likely low> ?
<pochu> low, yes
<pochu> just replace feisty with gutsy ;)
<pochu> afaik, the urgency has no efect in Ubuntu, right?
<boss> Okay, because I saw feisty-proposed, so that got me wondering.
<Fujitsu> ohmega: They are immutable, so no.
<Fujitsu> pochu: That's right.
<pochu> :)
<pochu> I wasn't sure, though
<pochu> now I am
<ohmega> ok now i think i got everything right:
<ohmega> http://librarian.launchpad.net/7383809/proposed.debdiff
<Fujitsu> ohmega: Looks pretty good.
<ohmega> Great :)
<pochu> ohmega: good luck!
<pochu> night folks
<ohmega> should i notify someone about this?
<boss> So urgency always = low?
<owh> Has anyone got any suggestions on where I go to learn more about how iocharsets work? Specifically, I'm trying to learn how it relates to file system mounting.
<ferret_0567> I would like to say thanks for all of the great software in universe!
<ferret_0567> I love BasKet Note Pads, package "basket"
<ohmega> the requestsponsor script did not work
<ohmega> the regex parsing of package/version from the diff fails
<bddebian> ferret_0567: Great, thank you
<ferret_0567> Is there any way I can monitor updates to packages in universe? and the most downloaded ones?
<Fujitsu> ohmega: Just ensure that ubuntu-universe-sponsors is subscribed to the bug.
<Fujitsu> ferret_0567: You can subscribe to [release codename] -changes to get an email for every change.
<ferret_0567> Where is that?
<ferret_0567> I want to be notified of all new packages and major version changes
<Fujitsu> ferret_0567: There's no way to do that at the moment.
<LaserJock> ferret_0567: lists.ubuntu.com has gutsy-changes and feisty-changes mailing lists
<LaserJock> ferret_0567: they get emails of every upload
<ferret_0567> I'm playing World of Padman
<grayman> hmm
<grayman> which package cyr is in?
<ohmega> ohmega@sonata:~/azureus-test$ cyr
<ohmega> The program 'cyr' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
<ohmega> sudo apt-get install console-cyrillic
<grayman> aha
<grayman> thanks
<LaserJock> wahoo, I get my sparc on Monday
<Burgundavia> rocking
<Burgundavia> from who?
<LaserJock> a guy in my LUG
<LaserJock> he's getting rid of an Ultra 10
<LaserJock> and he's going to drop it by my lab Monday
<Burgundavia> very cool
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what's running on it right now, Solaris or Linux
<LaserJock> but I'll put an Ubuntu Server install on it and see what happens
<RAOF> !!!
<RAOF> Why has democracyplayer registered itself as the default bittorrent program? 
<StevenK> It's assimilating your other programs.
<LaserJock> RAOF: resistence is futile
<StevenK> if less than 1 ohm
<StevenK> :-P
<LaserJock> lol
<RAOF> :)
<grayman> hm
<grayman> that resistant is futile reminds me of something heh
<grayman> s/resistant/resistance
<grayman> ah
<grayman> that vi clipper thing
<LaserJock> I see Hobbsee has her Doom stick out on the forums :-)
<boss> Hmm, this is definitely a bug.
<boss> http://sial.org/howto/kickstart/partition/desktop -> that kickstart configuration snippet is supposed to get the root filesystem and its underlings to format properly.
<boss> However, with the Ubuntu alternate install CD providing the ks option the appropriate path seems to work for everything but partitioning.
<boss> It gets a "No root filesystem defined" error and I can't define a root filesystem because Ubuntu seems to recurse back to that error.
<boss> If anyone else has seen this error, *please* let me know so that I can report it as a bug to Launchpad.
<elkbuntu> boss, why not submit it to launchpad now, and then if anyone else has the problem, but has not seen your comments here, they can then comment on it?
<boss> elkbuntu: Will do.
<boss> elkbuntu: I want to test it out a bit more. If I can find a solution, I'll post the bug and the hackaround on Launchpad.
<boss> elkbuntu: Here's another bug that's on Launchpad with medium priority and confirmed, but yet hasn't been assigned to anyone: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-kickstart/+bug/15156
<ubotu> Malone bug 15156 in system-config-kickstart "Error using "--generate" option to system-config-kickstart" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<boss> This error is very close to what I'm getting but not quite it.
<boss> It's labeled as medium priority and confirmed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kickseed/+bug/48311
<ubotu> Malone bug 48311 in kickseed "kickstart partitioning fails with --recommended or --asprimary" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<elkbuntu> if either of those are  your problems, make sure you comment on them. the more information the bugs have, the quicker a fix will happen
<grayman> so it seems that console-setup is unable to run properly because of usplash
<grayman> is there a way to time it after usplash is off?
<Burgundavia> you can use the bootgraph
<jdong> Burgundavia: bootchart :)
<Burgundavia> ya, that is it
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yep :D
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Where?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=413733 etc
<StevenK> It mentions checkinstall! Kill it, it's moving!
<LaserJock> Hobbsee, Fujitsu: seems like we're tagg-teaming that Gutsy forum ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: :D
<crimsun> at least you guys/gals are being civil. I'm glad I haven't logged in to respond.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: I often typed a reply, then thought better of it. Some of what I originally wrote wasn't at all civil.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh.  i thought yours was great - and clear ot the point
<Fujitsu> I'd so like to be able to strangle people over the 'net...
<Hobbsee> haha, yes
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: write up a spec about it :)
* Fujitsu throws some stupid `make application installers like Windows' threads at ajmitch.
<jdong> Fujitsu: there's a good reiser joke somewhere in your statement... just can't find it this late at night.....
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: checkinstall is all you need
<Fujitsu> jdong: What?
<jdong> Fujitsu: never mind :)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: That's why people are complaining that we don't support it, I guess.
<Fujitsu> `However, the Ubuntu developers seem to only want support Ubuntu debs.'
<jdong> UbuntuPortage :)
<Fujitsu> That has to deserve strangulation.
* Fujitsu sends jdong back to his corner.
<jdong> lol
<LaserJock> well, to play devil's advocate
<LaserJock> it does seem odd that we are all about software freedom and choice
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we'll be sure to forward all the bugs to you
<LaserJock> and then tell people they can only install software from us
<ajmitch> that's because we have a fragile system
<LaserJock> yes
<crimsun> LaserJock: we don't say that at all. We say that we don't support software not installed from Ubuntu repositories. I think that's a fairly significant distinction.
<LaserJock> crimsun: well, it's a fine line that many people don't really see
<LaserJock> I agree that supportability is the main issue
<crimsun> Right, it's our job to make that distinction very ... distinct.
<ajmitch> except for upgrades, where that 3rd party software breaks the rest
<LaserJock> on the other hand, why should we be supporting any of it?
<LaserJock> it's not our software
<crimsun> I'm convinced that we're completely missing a for-profit model in here somewhere.
<LaserJock> heh
<jdong> crimsun: it's Click N FUN!
<LaserJock> looking across the spectrum of distros the amount of wasted/duplicated work is staggering
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure why they seem to think that they need everything in main
<ajmitch> crimsun: we work, others profit
<ajmitch> simple
<Fujitsu> I think it'd be nice if the official and unoffical things were in seperate systems/databases/etc., so third-party stuff couldn't kill an upgrade like that... but that's not going to happen.
<Fujitsu> jdong: And you wonder why you're not a MOTU?
<jdong> Fujitsu: it's a joke :)
<Fujitsu> jdong: Noted, but it's still a forbidden word.
<crimsun> LaserJock: I've found that unofficial upstream IRC channels tend to foster significant cross-distro cooperation.
<crimsun> On the other hand, it's quite possible that I have tunnel vision here.
<LaserJock> crimsun: but still, imagine if we didn't spend all our time fighting with distro issues and worked on upstream issues
<LaserJock> I mean, at this moment, I think our system is about as good as we can do
<LaserJock> but in the future I think we're goint to have to figure something else out
<crimsun> where "in the future" == "right now" ?
<LaserJock> hehe, no
<LaserJock> I think there is value in things like 0install, autopackage, etc. though
<LaserJock> most often probably learning how *not* to do it
<Fujitsu> A universal packaging system would be nice, in theory.
<crimsun> 0install is a really nice thing for users, but it's pretty much a nightmare for us
<Fujitsu> Does 0install build from source?
<LaserJock> in essence we just need a standard
<Fujitsu> We do have one. RPM.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: nah, it's essentially downloading and caching binariesa
<crimsun> binaries, even
<LaserJock> and since I doubt rpm'ers will give in to the .deb domination ...
<LaserJock> I imagine it'll end up being some 3rd alternative
<LaserJock> my vote is for Slackware .tgz ;-)
<LaserJock> ok, well that was a joke, I didn't mean to kill the channel
<Burgundavia> bad LaserJock
<Fujitsu> Who makes the 0install, um, package/0installer thingies? Upstream, or the 0install people?
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: hmm?
<Fujitsu> Is 0install like dpkg, or apt? Is there a central repository like a distribution?
<crimsun> no
<crimsun> it's all decentralised
<_MMA_> http://wiki.rpath.com/wiki/Conary
<Fujitsu> So, there's no quality control of any kind?
<crimsun> not really, no
<LaserJock> the thing to me is
<LaserJock> we spend all this time and effort
<LaserJock> doing things that really should be done once upstream
<LaserJock> ideally upstream should provide the software in an installable for
<LaserJock> +m
<LaserJock> right now, the general Linux model seems to be that upstream authors provide a tarball
<RAOF> You could possibly extend autotools a bit?  It seems that autotools provides almost enough to do automatic generation of sane source packages?
<LaserJock> that then goes out to all the distros and they hack it up
<LaserJock> darn it, how do people end up with a blank sources.list
<jdong> LaserJock: (1) set all repos to automatix  (2) run dist-upgrader (3) PROFIT!
<StevenK> s/PROFIT/BROKEN SYSTEM/
<jdong> StevenK: that's profit for me!
<jdong> (kidding :D)
<jdong> what do you guys think about some mirror locating or even torrenting system for gutsy's upgrader?
<jdong> from the past couple days patrolling our install/upgrade forum sections; a lot of the upgrade difficulties were unreachable repos, etc
<LaserJock> obviously we just need a few more DCs around the world :-)
<Burgundavia> some sort of mirror balancing might work
<StevenK> A torrent system for mirrors I don't think will work.
<jdong> StevenK: why wouldn't it?
<jdong> well... there are the people behind firewalls
<jdong> and even if people do not (cannot due to technical limitations) stick around and seed, the whole swarm still comes out ahead compared to just a single server
<jdong> nicely executed round-robin DNS would be a good solution too
<LaserJock> for goodness sakes
<StevenK> I don't feel mirrored systems like Debian and Ubuntu lend themselves to peer-to-peer.
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I'm going to go nuts
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: oh?
<jdong> StevenK: the way I see it.... There are ~700MB of packages we know for sure every Ubuntu user needs to get... in fact, it's the Alternate CD
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: #edubuntu
<Burgundavia> ahh
<jdong> StevenK: have that torrented and populate the apt cache....
<jdong> that will at least free up a good chunk of load off the servers
<Burgundavia> the challenge would be you would also need to md5 sum every package you got
<Burgundavia> to prevent malicious poisoning of the packages
<jdong> Burgundavia: but all packages are PGP signed with the archive key
<jdong> I t hink a simple hack that would even work today if scripted....
<jdong> (1) Download alternate CD from torrent
<jdong> (2) mount it loopback, cp *.deb /var/cache/apt/archives
<jdong> (3) get rid of the CD, etc....
<jdong> (4) launch upgrader
<jdong> that alone should spare the servers of 700MB or so of downloads
<StevenK> jdong: Yes, that should help;.
<StevenK> s/;//
<RAOF> Hm, it seems that one of gmail & Evolution doesn't like the other.  Or rather, doesn't like me trying to download approximately 25K emails over POP
* crimsun scratches his forehead
<crimsun> someone tell me why I'm supposed to address bug reports using non-Ubuntu kernels (for alsa)
<crimsun> Linux fallen 2.6.20-gentoo #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Feb 15 02:46:07 EST 2007 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux   <--  ??
<RAOF> Intriguing.  This is on launchpad, presumably?
<crimsun> bug 108795
<ubotu> Malone bug 108795 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Mute Hotkey works but does not mute the sound" [Low,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108795
<crimsun> this is an obvious Reject
<crimsun> ah, he posted the wrong info
<crimsun> no wonder.
<ivoks> specialy if its kernel related
<ivoks> crimsun: fwiw; this happens to me too with ubuntu kernel
<crimsun> ivoks: completely different issue despite similar symptom
<ivoks> i guess :)
<crimsun> in your case, the support isn't fully functional in the driver
<crimsun> in his case, the support doesn't exist _at all_ in the driver. Neither emu10k1 nor ca0106 do it.
<LaserJock> darn, TheMuso isn't around :(
<ivoks> yes, but if i change it to PCM, works well
<crimsun> ivoks: right, we can argue whose responsibility it is (control-center? l-s-2.6.20?)
<ivoks> right
<ivoks> i would reject it, with explanation why it is rejected
<crimsun> 108795 is interesting for other reasons, e.g., it illustrates perfectly bug 94189
<ubotu> Malone bug 94189 in alsa-utils "Digital Output jack selected by default on a Soundblaster live" [Wishlist,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94189
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: have you seen https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/wiki ?>
<ferret_0567> Why is there a low latency Linux kernel image in universe on Feisty?
<ferret_0567> It's called "linux-image-lowlatency"
<RAOF> For hard-core audio app users.
<Burgundavia> because the multimedai people requested it
<ferret_0567> Does it work with the NVIDIA module? Is it good for anything else besides audio editing and video editing?
<RAOF> For the second part, not really.  For the first, presumably.  There'd be a linux-restricted-modules-lowlatency, right?
<crimsun> in multiverse.
<ferret_0567> Hmmm...I don't use the Ubuntu supplied NVIDIA module
<RAOF> That's generally a bad idea.
<ferret_0567> I wanted AIGLX in Edgy, so I upgraded it
<ferret_0567> It works fine, just don't try using "nv" again
<RAOF> Aaah, the drive to break systems for eyecandy.  I can understand that :)
<crimsun> We give people plenty of rope with which to hang themselves. :)
<ferret_0567> And, err...all I have to do to fix it is to remove all of X and reinstall it?
<ferret_0567> Countless KDE packages and all?
<ferret_0567> ...my stupidity amazes me
<ferret_0567> Well...that's eye candy :-P
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: can't say I have
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: looks interesting, if somewaht limited in scope
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> could be
<ferret_0567> I might reinstall, and, when I get my new computer, I'll NOT use the NVIDIA module
<ferret_0567> I heard of the nvidia-glx-new package
<ferret_0567> I'll use the Ubuntu one instead...
<RAOF> ferret_0567: You don't have to uninstall X.
<RAOF> It's actually quite simple, just uninstall the nvidia.com driver (they come with an --uninstall option)
<RAOF> Then install nvidia-glx-new
<RAOF> And hope that the nvidia.com driver cleans up after itself correctly :P
<ferret_0567> ok
<ferret_0567> I'll do that later...after I get my new computer
<ferret_0567> It'll be a Intel Core 2 Duo computer
<ferret_0567> I checked for compatibility
<ferret_0567> Gigabyte 965P-DS3 motherboard
<ferret_0567> Stupid JMicron chips on Core 2 Duo compatible motheboards mean that you can't choose just any motherboard
<man-di> are merges.ubuntu.com and patches.ubuntu.com gone?
<Hobbsee> man-di: they should be there.  merges might not be working yet though
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: latter is down
<Hobbsee> ahh
<StevenK> merges.u.c is refusing connections, too
<StevenK> It could be that both {patches,merges}.u.c is hosting on casey.u.c
<Burgundavia> and what is casey doing?
<StevenK> Not running a webserver like it ought to be?
<jussi01> Hello and morning everyone!
<man-di> okay, is there another way to see differences between Debian und Ubuntu? I wanna request some merges/syncs for Java related packages
<StevenK> man-di: I'd suggest you wait, given the toolchain for gutsy isn't fully uploaded yet.
<man-di> StevenK: I work on the Java toolchain (in Debian)
<man-di> StevenK: so merging might be okay for this
<man-di> I will speak with doko
<man-di> thanks
<Lamego> hello
<Lamego> anyone with LAMP installed ?
<Lamego> I get this strange problem with phpmyadmin, but I would like someone else to confirm it
<man-di> Lamego: you dont say anything about your problem. How can someone then confirm it?
<Lamego> well, I started by asking if someone has AMP installed, otherwise I will be loosing time explaing the problem :P
<Lamego> after logging in phpmyadmin, and selection any action on it, i just get redirected to the login page
<Lamego> I didn't found anything relevant on the logs, and is a very odd behavior
<Lamego> I didn't had this problem with phpmyadmin a week ago, at the time I was using 32 bits (now I am with amd64)
<Lamego> but since there are som many components involved (apache, php, mysql) it's hard to figure where is the problem
<jussi01> morning motu's, I have a question. what is the correct way to create man pages? is there a tutorial somewhere that someone could point me to? 
<Hobbsee> yes, and i've got no idea what it is
<Hobbsee> docbook2man or something's oftne used, iirc
<Hobbsee> ask in #ubuntu-doc if you dont get an asnwer hwere
<Hobbsee> gah, i cant spell
<jussi01> Hobbsee: thanks :D
<RAOF> There was a package on REVU that I got pointed to which seemed a good example of using docbook2man
<RAOF> I'll see if I can roust it up.
<jussi01> :)
<RAOF> Alternatively, check out the specto package, which is what I was trying to make a manpage for anyway :)
<hyperspace> hi im looking to help out
<hyperspace> :)
<Hobbsee> woo :)
<hyperspace> anyone still awake
<jussi01> yay
<hyperspace> yea been idle in here
<hyperspace> for a bit
* Hobbsee wonders how people can help out at the moment
* hyperspace wonders how to start!
<jussi01> learn to package.....
<hyperspace> killer
<hyperspace> been lookin @ those docs
<hyperspace> :)
<Hobbsee> hyperspace: what do you want to do?  put a new package into ubuntu, fix an existing one?
<hyperspace> whatever i can
<hyperspace> document/package/whatever
<Hobbsee> hmmm....
* Hobbsee wishes the toolchain was built
<hyperspace> i woouldnt mind starting out learning to pkg
<jussi01> hyperspace: you sound like me... a couple of months ago
<hyperspace> how are ya doing now?
<jussi01> hyperspace: a good packaging guide: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html
<hyperspace> i use this os @ work and home and love it
<Hobbsee> :)
<hyperspace> ive stuck with it longer than any distro
<jussi01> hyperspace: getting there... Im involved
<hyperspace> from server to notebook :)
<hyperspace> http://wizardsleeve.com/tb0x.png
<Hobbsee> sheesh!
<jussi01> nice!!
<hyperspace> you guys do an insane job
<hyperspace> and i want in on it
<hyperspace> great work
<hyperspace> i must learn the patterns :)
<jussi01> hehe, excellent!!
<hyperspace> must push patterns into work infrastructure
<Hobbsee> hyperspace: probably at the moment, i'd pick a new package that looks interesting, and package it
<Hobbsee> once the toolchain, etc, is built for gutsy, we can do merges, etc
<hyperspace> ok im running feisty on notebook and edgy on everything else
<RAOF> Or find a bug on launchpad that looks interesting and fix it?
<jussi01> yeah, Im with Hobbsee there...
<Hobbsee> RAOF: more work, if it's just about to be merged again
<Hobbsee> (and pointless if debian has done the fix)
<RAOF> Eh, true.  Well, you could try fixing Debain's bugs :)
<Hobbsee> then again, the new packaging teaches you a lot, which you then use in everything else
* Hobbsee kicks the wiki - load faster!
<hyperspace> yea
<hyperspace> looks fun
<jussi01> packaging is fun...
<jussi01> I like it :D
<hyperspace> :D
<RAOF> I actually like bug fixing more, somewhat surprisingly
* RAOF should do more of it :)
<jussi01> btw, back to the docbook2man issue, i got that installed, but how the heck do i install/run docbook....
* jussi01 kicks RAOFinto action
<jussi01> :P
<RAOF> jussi01: "apt-get source specto" :{
<RAOF> :P
<Hobbsee> jussi01: dunno.  check the manpage, maybe?
<RAOF> Alternatively, for the impatient: docbook2x-man debian/man/specto.docbook
<RAOF> Will take "debian/man/specto.docbook" and make "specto.1" in the current directory.
<jussi01> RAOF: yeah, i figured how to use it, but how do i get the dockbook file in the first place... thats the question...
<RAOF> Oh, I used emacs.
<jussi01> will kate do it????
<RAOF> Yeah, it's just XML.
<jussi01> oh....ok then....
<Hobbsee> kate does everything :)
<RAOF> Use an existing file for a base, and just fill the stuff in :)
<jussi01> existing file?
<RAOF> such as debian/man/specto.docbook :)
<jussi01> ok :D
<Hobbsee> hyperspace: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New should help, if it ever loads
* Hobbsee pedals faster
<hyperspace> cool
<hyperspace> reading packaging guide
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> Reiser4 support is still not in Ubuntu, thereby forcing people using it to build custom kernels.
<Hobbsee> is this true?
* Hobbsee thought it was in the installer
<RAOF> Reiser4 support *still* isn't in the mainline kernel, right?
<RAOF> It's lying around in -mm, and has been for *ages*?
<Hobbsee> no idea
<RAOF> We've got the tools for it, but I don't think the kernel's built with reiser4 support.
<Burgundavia> nope, reiser4 ain't mainlined
<RAOF> Yeah, thought so.
<Burgundavia> which pretty much means ubuntu isnt going to get it
<Burgundavia> unless some huge customer comes along and gives canonical mega dollars for it
<ivoks> :)
<RAOF> Which seems unlikely.  Cool as it is, it's not *that* cool :)
<Burgundavia> it is an fsck-ing filesystem
<Burgundavia> how "cool" can it be?
<ivoks> Burgundavia: hype
<RAOF> Well, it *could* magically make disc access instantaneous :)
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/108844 is the bug
<ubotu> Malone bug 108844 in Ubuntu "Reiser4 is still not in Ubuntu." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<RAOF> It seems to have some interesting ideas on the filesystem front.
<RAOF> Particularly, metadata/extended attributes-as-directory-hierachy.
<RAOF> Who wants to reject the bug, then :)
<Hobbsee> you
<Burgundavia> can I?
<RAOF> If you want to.
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: go for it :P
<jussi01> where's jdong with his reiser jokes....
<Burgundavia> kernel bugs should be on meta, no?
<Hobbsee> or linux-source-######
<Burgundavia> I chose feisty's kernel
<afflux> eclipse-platform is not installable without installing java-gcj-compat. (in the depends it says: java-gcj-compat | java1-runtime | java2-runtime, I have sun-java6-jre installed which provides java2-runtime)
<man-di> afflux: then it should work
<afflux> well, the problem is: it depends on libtomcat5.5-java which depends on java-gcj-compat (and in this case onl yon java-gcj-compat)
<jussi01> hmmm, is the author me? or the program author?
<man-di> afflux: oh right, that is one of the differgences to Debian (and it breaks stuff like this)
<man-di> afflux: I will request a merge/sync
<jussi01> (for the man pages)
<afflux> man-di: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/5383 was the initial question... can you post a link to the bug here?
<afflux> *there
<jekil> hello
<gpocentek> hi jekil 
<gpocentek> hi all
<Hobbsee> hi gpocentek 
<gpocentek> hello Hobbsee 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<mr_pouit> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Hello mr_pouit
<nixternal> boo
<bddebian> ahhh
<nixternal> hehe
<bddebian> Heya nixternal
<nixternal> mornin' sir
<bddebian> nixternal: You can't do that to me when I haven't woken up yet :-)
<nixternal> it seems people want to learn how to package this morning for the LUG event, so it looks like I will put on my wannabe-MOTU hat and teach them what I can
<nixternal> so if I am in here later asking questions, answer them promptly or suffer ;)
<white> anybody here familiar with wine? (i try to get c+c2 working, haven't played it for ages :) )
* Fujitsu waves to white.
<white> hi :)
* Fujitsu knows nothing about white.
<Fujitsu> s/white/wine./
<white> that thing tells me it can't find the "necessary files", but i have no clue why
<Hobbsee> hi white.  \sh_away is
<white> hi Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> hey white :)
<white> it seems it is not my day :(
<Hobbsee> awww
<dqdev> \list
<dqdev> hello all
<dqdev> does anyboy have some time
<dqdev> to help a newbie on some bug-fixing quuestion?
<Hobbsee> shoot
<Hobbsee> !ask | dqdev 
<ubotu> dqdev: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<dqdev> it's my first bug so be patient
<Hobbsee> :)
<dqdev> i m trying to fix the very simple bug
<dqdev> #80474
<dqdev> where there is a .desktop file missing
<dqdev> i created the .desktop file
<dqdev> according to some others I saw
<dqdev> then i moved the ketm.desktop
<dqdev> to the source folder
<bddebian> Put it in the /debian dir if there wasn't one at all before
<dqdev> hmmm
<dqdev> ok... maybe that was my mistake
<bddebian> Well it shouldn't hurt anything, it's just not "good form"
<dqdev> i ll try that again 
<dqdev> then something else
<dqdev> i did that 
<dqdev> and then followed all the directions
<dqdev> in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
<bddebian> OK
<dqdev> the thing is that ketm has a patches folder, but I got a little bit confused there and decided to ignore it and follow the steps as if it didn't have
<bddebian> Shouldn't need a patch for a distro supplied file
<dqdev> i m not following here
<bddebian> Did you add things to debian/rules and/or .install files and such to actually install the .desktop file?
<dqdev> no :$
<bddebian> dqdev: Are you talking about /debian/patches ?
<dqdev> yes
<bddebian> Not necessary in this case
<dqdev> i did the following
<dqdev> i created the .desktop file
<dqdev> mv to the ketm-0.0.6/
<dqdev> and then created a patch file as https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
<dqdev> points
<dqdev> and then i just followed
<dqdev> what the site says
<dqdev> sudo apt-get build-dep ketm
<dqdev> debuild -us -uc
<dqdev> sudo dpkg -i ketm.deb
<dqdev> Am I missing smthng or doing smthng wrong?
<bddebian> You don't need a patch in this case because you aren't "patching" any source files, you are adding a new file unrelated to the upstream source
<dqdev> ok, I see now...
<bddebian> create the .desktop in ketm-0.0.6/debian
<dqdev> ok
<bddebian> Tell debian/rules to install the file to /usr/share/applications (there are a few different ways to do this)
<bddebian> Check the package you looked at the .desktop file to see how they "install" the .desktop file
<dqdev> ok
<dqdev> and then?
<bddebian> Some use dh_desktop.  Many just do install -m ...
<bddebian> Then build your deb and see if the .desktop file is truly in it.  I usually use dpkg-deb -c <foo>.deb |grep desktop
<bddebian> Better yet, intall your .deb and make sure it works ;-P
<dqdev> great instructions
<dqdev> thanks bddebian
<bddebian> NP
<dqdev> some last question (I swear)
<bddebian> np
<dqdev> you said that I have to tell rules
<dqdev> to install
<dqdev> the .desktop file
<dqdev> and that there are several ways to do that
<bddebian> Yep
<dqdev> like dh desktop
<dqdev> is there some manual on how to do that? Is it included in the packaging guide?
<bddebian> I'm not sure tbh, sorry
<dqdev> ok... I ll see what I can find online
<bddebian> The best thing to do is check the build system of the package to see how they are doing things.  I.E., does it have .dirs and .install files
<bddebian> And there's always "man dh_desktop" ;)
<dqdev> they have .dirs
<dqdev> hehe... right
<dqdev> i ll check that! 
<bddebian> Actually I might be wrong, I don't think dh_desktop will actually "install" the desktop file
<dqdev> thanks a million! 
<bddebian> I mean dh_install.
<dqdev> yes
<dqdev> install -m
<dqdev> ?
<bddebian> That works too
<shawarma> bddebian: You scared him away!
<bddebian> Doh :'-(
<elkbuntu> has anyone seen sivang around lately?
<shawarma> elkbuntu: 16:33 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-           Last Seen: 6 weeks 2 days (3h 51m 21s) ago
<shawarma> elkbuntu: sivang, that is.
<elkbuntu> shawarma, yep, thats the kind of thing i'm finding too, but i didnt know if he had a different nick or what
<shawarma> elkbuntu: Yes, I suppose that's possible. No, I haven't seem him around for ages.
<elkbuntu> in my logs, i'm seeing no -motu since january, no -devel since march
<elkbuntu> whelp, emailed as per LP. not much else i can do :)
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<mr_pouit> hi DarkSun88 
<DarkSun88> mr_pouit: Hi
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: poke
<elkbuntu> eep, it's a Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: it is.  ROAR!!!!
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: anyway, see -devel
<Hobbsee> shawarma: too
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, i see him here too ;)
* elkbuntu pokes sivang
<sivang> hey elkbuntu 
<elkbuntu> sivang, did you get my email?
<sivang> elkbuntu: are you Melissa ?
<elkbuntu> i am indeed
<Hobbsee> sivang: no, she's a strange person.
<Hobbsee> sivang: she's definetly not Melissa
<sivang> ah-ha! pleased to meet you my  dear lady
* elkbuntu bops hobbsee over the head
<elkbuntu> :)
* Hobbsee bobs elkbuntu right back
<Hobbsee> remember, you have to fly wiht me!!!  :P
<sivang> i have just responded to it
<sivang> Hobbsee: fly where?
<elkbuntu> righto
* Hobbsee cant spell
<Hobbsee> sivang: spain.  UDS
<elkbuntu> sivang, the evil aussie girls are being let loose in spain
<Hobbsee> less than 2 weeks!
<sivang> oh good for you ! 
* Hobbsee muhahahaha's
<sivang> too bad I will not meet you there :-(
<sivang> Hobbsee: I  take it you are being sponsord after working on THOUSANDS of packaes? :)
<Hobbsee> sivang: yeah.  and you'd better come.  :P.  i think geser's done more than me now, though
<sivang> Hobbsee: hehe, I wish , but don't think so - unless amiracle happens 
<Q-FUNK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108556
<ubotu> Malone bug 108556 in upgrade-system "KDECdromProgressAdapter instance has no attribute 'progressbar'" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Q-FUNK> anybody would know to which package this bug really belongs to?
<sivang> Hobbsee: maybe I can toos upon you to continue my hubackup legacy and bring it up to speed ?:)
<Hobbsee> sivang: my python skills arnet great
<sivang> Hobbsee: an oppurtunity ! 
<sivang> :p
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: looks like the kubuntu dist-upgrader
<Hobbsee> which may be update-manager or part of adept
<Hobbsee> i'd probably put it under adept
<Hobbsee> maybe update-manager...hmmm
<sivang> anyway folks, thanks for the warm welcome - nice to see someone still remembers :p
<Q-FUNK> defintely some K thingie, but I have no idea which one
* sivang goes to kill something to eat
<Q-FUNK> feel free to reassign
<Hobbsee> sivang: of course we do
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: done
<sivang> elkbuntu: see my email, we need to get a hold of smurf . anyway laters
<elkbuntu> sivang, email hasnt arrived yet, i'll look in the morning
<elkbuntu> g'nite all
<sivang> (I actually forgot his his real name)
* sivang is getting old
<elkbuntu> matthias
<sivang> elkbuntu: yes, but the last name ? :)
<elkbuntu> um.. i always confuse the matthias'
<sivang> indeed.
<sivang> that is what happens to me as well
<sivang> say folks, do you know if the conference sponsorship are still on ?
<sivang> (e.g. one can apply)
<elkbuntu> i'd say they're done by now. it's less than a week away
<Hobbsee> they didnt let us contact them this time - they contacted us
<sivang> Hobbsee: there was no wiki page to apply in ?
<Hobbsee> sivang: correct
<sivang> oh dear
<sivang> it is getting *harer* :-p
<elkbuntu> with good reason
<sivang> oh, what has changed since last time ?
<sivang> elkbuntu: ^^
<Hobbsee> harer?
<sivang> ERROR: word not understood
<sivang> harder , hehe 
<sivang> Hobbsee: I said I was getting older :p
<Hobbsee> haha
<elkbuntu> sponsoring people is a cost, and the easier it is to apply, the easier it is to over-indulge ;)
<sivang> indeed, anyway time for me to over-indulge myself with some food !
<sivang> latter
<elkbuntu> he goes, his email arrives
<elkbuntu> typical
<Hobbsee> heh
<poningru> any reason why deluge package was taken out of feisty?
<Hobbsee> poningru: a) was it taken out of debian? b) did you check for bug reports?
<Hobbsee> iirc because it was utterly broken - but that may be something else
<poningru> Hobbsee: it originated in ubuntu not sure if it ever made to debian
<Amaranth> I vote for "it was utterly broken"
<Hobbsee> (those are the usual things to check for, for missing packages)
<Amaranth> and at most an alpha/tech-preview
<poningru> oh hmm
<lamego_> anyone have a good pointer or list of people that could help me with mirroring debian packages for ubuntu ?
<ph1zzle> hey all
<ph1zzle> I have a odd question. I am trying to compile a library and it tells me two other libraries are too old of a version even though I compiled the newest ones just minutes before, this happens on two different computers, one with dapper server and one with feisty desktop, does any one know if I am missing a package or maybe doing something else wrong that I don't know about
<ph1zzle> ?
<ph1zzle> any help would be greatly appreciated
<danohuiginn> ph1zzle: is the library you're trying to compile in ubuntu? do you have all the build-dependencies installed?
<danohuiginn> what are the libraries that are giving you problems?
<ph1zzle> the library I am trying to install is libtunepimp from musicbrainz.org and the libs that are giving me trouble are libofa from musicip.org and libmusicbrainz from musicbrainz
<ph1zzle> is there a way in which ./configure checks version numbers of shared libs? something I can run from the command line?
<ph1zzle> is there a way in which ./configure checks version numbers of shared libs? something I can run from the command line?
<danohuiginn> personally, I don't know. are you able to install the ubuntu-packaged version of libtunepimp?
<ph1zzle> yes but it is useless for what I need as it's missing puid which comes in the source tatball
<ph1zzle> although I would like to know how it was compiled
<danohuiginn> well, you can use 'apt-get source libtunepimp' to get the ubuntu source, and have a look at that
<ph1zzle> huh, really?
<ph1zzle> thats cool
<ph1zzle> ok, me takes a peek
<danohuiginn> :)
<danohuiginn> the ubuntu- and debian- specific bits will be in the debian/ subdir
<Adri2000> should I assign universe security bugs to motu-swat?
<Artemis3> Sorry if i'm bothering, proposed Edgy package: update-manager 0.45.3 doesn't show the update to 7.04 button anymore, is this intentional? downgrading to 0.45.2 still shows the button.
<sacater> when i get a server, im going to give everyone here an account, and screen, so we dont get logging in and out :(
<danohuiginn> sacater: amen to that. first ubuntu bug I ever fixed was the gaim plugin to ignore join/part messages ;)
<sacater> im serious, all i need is a server :P
<sacater> id happily give motu's an account
<sacater> ssh keys..
* sacater stays in his daydream
<grayman> heh
<grayman> gaim is still buggy
<grayman> refuses to stop blinking in the panel until you type a message
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-14
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RAOF> Howdie bddebian
<bddebian> Hi RAOF
<jdong> any ~motu-release online?
<TheMuso> jdong: Yes.
<jdong> TheMuso: ok, let's talk sshmenu :)
<jdong> TheMuso: I've been e-mailing back and forth with the author, and he says the package we have in Hardy is a snapshot from Debian at an unstable moment in time
<TheMuso> jdong: Go on.
<jdong> TheMuso: the Debian package has been since repackaged to split between sshmenu and sshmenu-gnome
<jdong> TheMuso: which means an update to this package would result in the GNOME menu disappearing unless the user installs the 2nd package
<jdong> TheMuso: the author either wants (1) a sync from Debian (2) archive removal
<TheMuso> jdong: Yes...
<jdong> TheMuso: #2 is less risky but #1 seems like it's more attractive
<jdong> looking for input on the best approach
<TheMuso> jdong: How many bugs filed against the package currently?
<jdong> TheMuso: just one
<jdong> TheMuso: and an answer tracker question from the author for said action
<jdong> TheMuso: note the sync from debian happened in November
<TheMuso> jdong: Ok, so this would be a new upstream release as well?
<jdong> TheMuso: right, 3.14-1 -> 3.15-1
<TheMuso> So it would need 2 acks in any case.
<jdong> I guess so :)
<TheMuso> Ad the package in its current form is not stable...
<jdong> correct
<jdong> it's deprecated packaging that will cause undesirable side effects with any update.
<jdong> we either handle it now before hardy comes out for hear complaints for intrepid
<TheMuso> I'd say file a FFe/sync request, attach the necessary bits, and I'll have a look and then its up to another motu-release person to give it the ok.
<jdong> TheMuso: ok will do
<protonchris> TheMuso: Are you up for looking at another? Bug 216308
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216308 in glom "Glom crashes when adding record" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216308
<TheMuso> protonchris: Looking now.
<protonchris> TheMuso: thanks
<DarkMageZ> is there a process for having a package removed from ubuntu? and if so, where can i find the appropriate documentation of it?
<jdong> TheMuso: what are the info I need? I'm guessing diffstat, pbuilder log, upstream changelog diff?
<TheMuso> jdong: Diffstat is not needed, changelog would be the most helpful thing, a build/install logs are also useful.
<LaserJock> DarkMageZ: file a bug for the archive admins
<TheMuso> protonchris: Ok, please get it sponsored/uploaded.
<protonchris> TheMuso: thanks for your help
<TheMuso> Welcome.
<YokoZar> I want to update ia32-libs one more time before release (including adding a lib) to close #182731 (specifically adding libasound2-plugins ), however a debdiff for that is obviously too big (since it would include the entire deb package as "source")...what can I do?
<jdong> TheMuso: motu-release subscribed to bug 217044
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 217044 in sshmenu "Sync 3.15-1 from sid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217044
<jdong> *grumble* WHAT is using half my swap?
<jdong> goodie. eclipse.
<TheMuso> haha
<StevenK> Eight-hundred Megabytes And Constantly Swa ... oh, wait
<dholbach> good morning
<LaserJock> morning dholbach
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hi LaserJock, hey TheMuso
<nxvl> gute tag!
<nxvl> guten*
<dholbach> Guten Morgen nxvl! :)
<nxvl> dholbach: how was your weekend?
<dholbach> very good - had lots of fun with friends from Vienna - how was yours?
<nxvl> quit but fun
<nxvl> quiet*
<nxvl> on friday i watched Fool's Gold
<nxvl> and i go to the beach on saturday
<nxvl> i have just came back today (here it's still sunday)
<nxvl> there was a surf championship, so there was still lot of people out there
<dholbach> fool's gold?
<dholbach> that sounds nice :)
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> it was really fun
<nxvl> Kate Hudson and Matthew McConaughey make a really good couple on the movies
<macogw> would "it uses gio instead of gnomevfs" be a compelling reason to update an app this close to release?
<macogw> since hardy's using gio
<dholbach> macogw: best to ask seb128 once he got up
<macogw> ok
<nxvl> macogw: he must get up in 2 hours or so, dholbach is the only martian who wakes up this early :P
<macogw> early?
<macogw> its 1:30AM here
<nxvl> macogw: yes, on berlin it is 7:30 am
<macogw> sort of evening, in my mind ;)
<RAOF> That sounds like a fairly intrusive change to me, and it's not like gnomevfs is particularly less featureful now that we're using gio.
<nxvl> dholbach: doesn't it?
<dholbach> nxvl: it is
<dholbach> macogw: try on #ubuntu-desktop or ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com
<macogw> ok
<calc> i got up at 7:30am in Prague yesterday and haven't gone to bed yet :)
<calc> so i guess I am up late ;)
 * calc is hoping he doesn't feel weird after doing a +7 / -7 in 4 days
<nxvl> calc: you are in Prague?
<calc> nxvl: i flew to prague from houston at 3:30pm wed, and got back to houston at 7:30pm tonight (Sunday)
<calc> so i woke up at Sun 7:30am (UTC+2) and am still awake
<calc> i'm not going to set my alarm and just see when i wake up, heh
<calc> when i was in prague i kept waking up at 3am for whatever reason
<calc> maybe my body was thinking it was time to eat dinner
<macogw> haha
<macogw> you mean 3am isn't normally dinner time?
<macogw> im not surprised at it being 2am and me being hungry...this seems like a normal occurence
<macogw> now if only there was food in the dorm...
<calc> macogw: 3am would be 8pm where i normally am and that isn't a time i would normally wake up so i guess maybe dinner
<calc> i normally don't wake up in the middle of the night when i am at home
 * calc is headed for bed now
<warp10> good morning
<emgent> morning
<elmargol> dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libmicrohttpd.so.4 (used by debian/gnunet-server/usr/lib/GNUnet/libgnunetmodule_hostlist.so). <- any ideas how I fix this?
<\sh> moins
<elmargol> hi \sh maybe you know dpkg-shlibdeps?
<\sh> elmargol, hmm?
<RAOF> elmargol: It's probably looking for the shlibs file that libmicrohttpd should be shipped with.  Where is that lib coming from?
<elmargol> RAOF, you mean I probably packaged libmicrohttpd wrong?
<RAOF> Oh, you packaged that lib?  Yeah, dpkg really wants you to make a shlibs file for it :)
<elmargol> ah ok
<elmargol> thx!
<RAOF> You've seen the Debian library packaging guide?
<elmargol> I just compiled a new version of the lib
<awmcclain> Hi all! I've i'm creating new ubnuntu packages for a small-medium group of people (possibly distributing through launchpad PPA), how should I deal with signing? Should I sign the package or not?
<awmcclain> s/I've/If
<RAOF> awmcclain: You can't.
<elmargol> awmcclain, you have to mirror the repository and sign it
<awmcclain> RAOF: Well, that does it, then. :)
<elmargol> you can not directly sign the ppa
<awmcclain> elmargol: I'm talking about signing the package when building it with dpkg-buildpackage.
<awmcclain> Ah. Actually, I'm just talking about the .dsc and .changes files. Does that not matter?
<elmargol> You can not upload unsigned files to the ppa
<awmcclain> elmargol: Even if I own the project? Maybe I'm confused with the way repository hosting works on launchpad
<elmargol> awmcclain, the signature is your "password"
<RAOF> awmcclain: You upload a gpg-signed changes file, specifying the dsc, .diff.gz and orig.tar.gz (if needed).  LP then builds that source package, producing some (unsigned) binary packages.
<awmcclain> ROAF: Ahhh. Ok. I see! Thank you.
<RAOF> You can't have the PPA sign those packages, since then launchpad would need to have your private GPG key, thus making that key worthless.
<elmargol> Can I compile a package using pbuilder and give me a shell after this?
<RAOF> Yes, kinda.
<RAOF> You can login to your pbuilder environment, do the build in there, and then you've got a shell :)
<YokoZar> dholbach: would a debdiff be appropriate for an ia32-libs update?
<YokoZar> ï»¿I want to update ia32-libs one more time before release (including adding a lib) to close bug #182731 (specifically adding libasound2-plugins ), however a debdiff for that is obviously too big (since it would include the entire deb package as "source")...what can I do?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 182731 in ia32-libs "Provide a lib32asound2-plugins package" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182731
<coolbhavi> Hello
<coolbhavi> Can some one help me out please
<proppy> oy
<coolbhavi> Take a look at this please http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63148/
<coolbhavi> help me anyone please
<james_w> coolbhavi: the diff can represent neither the symlink you added nor the changes you made to the binary .chr files
<james_w> if you have to make these changes in the diff then you need to find another method, e.g. uuencode
<james_w> otherwise you can make the changes at build time if that is possible.
<coolbhavi> What to do to eliminate the error?
<coolbhavi> Please explain
<james_w> can you explain what changes you made to these files first?
<coolbhavi> I was just trying to upgrade the package
<coolbhavi> I made changes to the changelog
<coolbhavi> dch -i
<coolbhavi> thats all the changes I did
<coolbhavi> first I did apt-get source
<coolbhavi> then downloaded the source new version from openwall
<coolbhavi> then created a /debian source directory
<coolbhavi> then cp -r the old version
<coolbhavi> then debuild
<james_w> it appears as if you are using the new source in the old directory or something
<coolbhavi> no I am in the new directory itself
<james_w> what you can do is download and unpack the old version of the package, and download the new version of the tarball, and then run uupdate in the unpacked old package, passing it the path of the new tarball
<coolbhavi> I moved it using mv
<coolbhavi> I am following instructions in UPG
<coolbhavi> Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<coolbhavi> OK I will delete those directories and try again afresh
<coolbhavi> Another doubt
<coolbhavi> From where should we download new source? In this case from openwall right?
<james_w> from wherever upstream releases it to.
<coolbhavi> new upstream release is from openwall
<coolbhavi> http://www.openwall.com/john/f/john-1.7.0.2.tar.gz
<james_w> you could have a look at the package in Debian experimental
<coolbhavi> OK
<coolbhavi> Then how to update in ubuntu?
<coolbhavi> Merging?
<james_w> yes, if the Ubuntu changes should be kept
<coolbhavi> Ok Is my method of packaging wrong
<coolbhavi> ?
<james_w> I don't think so
<coolbhavi> Then how to eliminate the error please... You mentioned the uupdate command
<coolbhavi> I have done as you said now
<coolbhavi> How to use uupdate
<coolbhavi> ?
<coolbhavi> Please explain
 * Hobbsee suggests the man page
<emgent> heya tseliot :)
<tseliot> emgent: hi ;)
<coolbhavi> james_w I did  uupdate --pristine john-1.7.0.2.tar.gz as you said above but still same error
<coolbhavi> any help?
<pochu> hmm, just thinking how ~ubuntu-universe-assistants would sound for the new "Ubuntu Contributing Developers" team
<pochu> persia: ^
<Fujitsu> Yay, a fix for the SDL+PulseAudio crackling: bug #216397
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216397 in libsdl1.2 "sdl patch for better pulseaudio support" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216397
<dholbach> YokoZar: does it only have a text diff?
<\sh> dholbach, YokoZar : talk to pitti about it, he can do easier uploads from canonical machines to DC...
<YokoZar> \sh: good idea
<YokoZar> dholbach: adding a package to ia32-libs adds an entire .deb as "source"
<YokoZar> (and also a source package)
<\sh> dholbach, fixing ia32-libs is *censored* from your local machine ,-)
<\sh> it's just like uploading a complete -server iso image :)
<dholbach> try asking in #ubuntu-devel
<\sh> ScottK, Hobbsee, (or anyone from motu-release) can you ack bug ï»¿#182731 pls asap :) thx :)
<YokoZar> Thank you for asking for me \sh :)
<\sh> YokoZar, *g* what do we do about the memory problem?
<YokoZar> \sh: I don't see any sort of fix that doesn't involve hypnotizing the security team
<\sh> YokoZar, hmmmm........
<\sh> YokoZar, and as I understand it's only the lower 64k part of this prelink loader?
<YokoZar> Frankly though, I'm not sure why Wine needs to reserve that range in particular...in part because I don't really know how memory addressing like that actually works
<YokoZar> \sh: http://pastebin.com/m677dbe3d
<YokoZar> It's also a real longshot to get something like this: http://v86-64.sourceforge.net/
<YokoZar> Even for Hardy + 1 I mean
<\sh> YokoZar, well, fun part: it's not amd64 only...
<\sh> shermann@wz-pc-006:~$ uname -a
<\sh> Linux wz-pc-006 2.6.24-16-generic #1 SMP Thu Apr 10 13:23:42 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
<\sh> shermann@wz-pc-006:~$ wine Desktop/wr
<\sh> preloader: Warning: failed to reserve range 00000000-60000000
<YokoZar> Right.  Though I suspect DOS/win16 support will stay broken on amd64 even if we disabled the security
<\sh> YokoZar, yepp...but what should we do about hte bugs we have...won't fix -> and writing: "well, it's just a warning" or "confirmed: to be fixed in the future"? :)
<persia> pochu: Better proposed to the mailing list, if it doesn't gather discussion here (and even if it does).
<coolbhavi> uploaders dont have an ubuntu address error
<coolbhavi> How to overcome?
<coolbhavi> Any one please
<\sh> coolbhavi, what context...and where do you try to upload?
<coolbhavi> I am trying to merge john the ripper
<coolbhavi> latest version into ubuntu
<\sh> coolbhavi, can you pastebin your output? (paste.ubuntu.com e.g.)
<coolbhavi> \sh http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63163/
<\sh> coolbhavi, ah this..
<\sh> if you add something as revision e-g- -XubuntuY you need to set an maintainer like Ubuntu Universe Developer <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<\sh> coolbhavi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<AnAnt> Hello, how can I add /var/cache/pbuilder/result/ to pbuilderrc's OTHERMIRROR ?
<coolbhavi> \sh in the control file?
<\sh> coolbhavi, yep
<\sh> AnAnt, you can't it's not an repository...
<AnAnt> \sh: how can I make it a repository ?
<\sh> AnAnt, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Persona
<\sh> AnAnt, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Personal even
<coolbhavi> \sh now its comming secret key not available
<\sh> coolbhavi, did you add a changelog entry with dch ?
<coolbhavi> for Bhavani Shankar i.e me
<coolbhavi> yes
<\sh> coolbhavi, you need to have a gpg key for yourself :)
<coolbhavi> yes have it
<AnAnt> \sh: thanks
<\sh> coolbhavi, strange then
<\sh> AnAnt, welcome
<\sh> Fujitsu, do you know, if it's possible to workaround the problem with w32codec dlls to write logfiles? e.g. while converting videos with vp6 codec in 2pass mode, the dll itself tries to write something to the disk..which doesn't work somehow when using this dll in linux....
<\sh> Fujitsu, mplayer/mencoder issue that is
<Fujitsu> \sh: I've no idea whatsoever
<\sh> Fujitsu, me neither...I just ran into this very special problem :(
<\sh> now I'm trying to workaround it using wine + windows mencoder ;)
<pochu> persia: thanks, done.
<Iulian> Heya
<persia> pochu: Just as commentary, we maintain a dichotomy between "MOTU" and "Ubuntu Developers" for various reasons.  At Mountain View, there was discussion of deprecating the former in favor of the latter, and after Seville, the latter was determined to be an entitlement group, whereas the former would have members.
<Mirv> could someone approve bug 216211 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216211 in compizconfig-settings-manager "ccsm Finnish translation broken again" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216211
<LarstiQ> What needs to be done to get a rebuild for bug 128180 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128180 in rpy "rpy import error at Gusty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/128180
<coolbhavi> Hello again
<coolbhavi> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63173/
<coolbhavi> But nothing on my PPA?
<coolbhavi> https://edge.launchpad.net/~bhavi/+archive
<coolbhavi> IS PPA FROZEN?
<DarkMageZ> coolbhavi, i think the packages have to compile first.
<Tonio_> dholbach: ping ?
<coolbhavi> <DarkMageZ> I have uploaded the package
<coolbhavi> but no record of uploading the package
<DarkMageZ> hmm. odd. not sure.
<jdong> coolbhavi: how long dd you wait after uploading?
<coolbhavi> hi jdong an hr
<pochu> persia: ok, I didn't know that. I prefer Mountain View's decision. But does that affect my name proposal in any way, or was it just for my information? :)
<coolbhavi> I uploaded John the ripper latest version jdong
<coolbhavi> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63173/
<coolbhavi> for hardy
<coolbhavi> but no mention of package on my ppa
<persia> pochu: Just historical information.  I'm not convinced nomenclature isn't bikeshedding at this point, although I'd prefer to avoid either pure Mountain View or completely silly names.
<Hobbsee> coolbhavi: did you get an acceptance mail?
<\sh> coolbhavi, your public gpg needs to be attached to your LP account and your prefered mail address should be also on your gpg key uid
<coolbhavi> OK
<jdong> *sigh* stupid building wifi. They put 4 APs on the same ESSID reachable from the same room...
<jdong> but none allow me to communicate with a DHCP address from the other
<jdong> so when madwifi tries to roam to the stronger AP... poof.
<pochu> persia: I see. This has "Universe" so I don't think it's following Mountain View, and I don't think it's silly either, but YMMV
<pochu> anyway, it's just a proposal and I don't mind if people doesn't like it :-)
<pochu> people doesn't or people don't?
<AstralJava> One people (ie. the english) doesn't like, but people (person in plural) don't. Right?
<persia> pochu: "people don't", although I'm only in that category in that I think there may be value to separate the "official" name from the "internal" name, rather than having any issues with the suggested name itself.
<persia> AstralJava: Yes, although "one doesn't like" or "one person doesn't like".  It takes two to make "people".
<AstralJava> persia: True.
<pochu> AstralJava, persia: thanks
<pochu> persia: I'm sorry but I don't think I get you... I don't understand how you would separate those...
<persia> pochu: Hmm..  I'm not sure I'm up for a full explanation now, but by way of example, I am proud to be MOTU, and enjoy referring to MOTU as "Masters", but when I present myself in an official context related to Ubuntu, I tend to use the description "Ubuntu Developer" or "Developer".
<dholbach> Tonio_: pong
<persia> Essentially, the internal term is a little humourous, but not really incredibly professional.  I'd not like to lose the fun, but similarly, I'm not likely to use it on a business card.
<pochu> persia: I see. So perhaps you would like to have a formal name in the wiki, but something not so formal for the Launchpad team name?
<persia> pochu: That'd be my personal preference, but it really depends on the preferred identity of the members of the group.  I no longer believe I can speak well for that identity.
<dholbach> I asked a few people for a new name - this is what I got up until now: http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/?p=111
<persia> dholbach: when the discussion dies out, would you mind mirroring the best to the mailing list?  Nice to see some fresh names though :)
<pochu> I like this one from your blog :-)
<pochu> For something less serious than i.e. âUbuntu Contributing Developerâ or some such, I suggest: âUbuntu Universe Astronautâ
<dholbach> persia: will do
<emgent> lol
<Tonio_> TheMuso: may I ping you concerning bug 217266 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 217266 in ubuntu "FeatureFreeze Exception for new package OBM" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217266
<Tonio_> TheMuso: due to specific context (partnership between canonical and my company) this is a kind of emergency on my side :)
<bhavibond> Hello
<bhavibond> Still I cant get my package in PP
<bhavibond> Still I cant get my package in PPA
<mok0> huh? I am trying to build a source package, but it fails with this: unable to get login information for username "mok" at /usr/lib/dpkg/controllib.pl line 64.
<mok0> Of course, I don't exist in the chroot environment
<stani> pochu, ScottK, ScottK2: What should I do about bug #215714? I am afraid if the patch for python-nautilus get uploaded for Hardy in the last moment, there is no chance for Phatch to upload a patch as well. As a result nautilus integration for phatch will be broken.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 215714 in nautilus-python "The path for python extensions should be reflect the 2.0 api" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215714
<pochu> stani: let me ask seb128
<stani> pochu: thanks (I am bit nervous about it), also the bug report has a patch attached but I don't know if it is marked as such.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian!
<stani> pochu: I have to go. Please email me if you know more.
<bddebian> Hi geser
<mlind> could someone sponsor fix in bug #202343 ? asac basically gave ack for it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202343 in opensc "mozilla-opensc firefox plugin not visible in FF3 (bad install directory)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202343
<cool> how to i get started with packageing?
<RainCT> !packaging
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<stan1> pochu: I am back
<norsetto> hello
<sebner> norsetto: heya :D
<norsetto> sebner: heya
<sebner> norsetto: debdiff is ready. just testbuilding again
<norsetto> sebner: goodie goodie
<sebner> norsetto: And I really worked hard to make a nice looking debdiff so be nice :P
<norsetto> sebner: I'm always nice :-)
<sebner> ^^
<sebner> true
<sebner> norsetto: are smilies allowed in the changelog? ^^
<norsetto> sebner: good question, I never seen one myself, but if you have a reason I see no harm done
<sebner> norsetto: I want to thank you with a nice looking smilie ^^
<norsetto> sebner: no need then, just write "bugger norsetto" ;-)
<sebner> ^^
<sebner> norsetto: but I'm afraid that I br0ke the debdiff xD And I replaced my conky folder with the original one to test but it's failing xD
<norsetto> sebner: what is it that broke?
<sebner> norsetto: a wired thing. The line " New upstream release from 1.5.1"
<norsetto> sebner: sorry, I don't get what you mean
<sebner> norsetto: nvm. I'll test something
<sebner> norsetto: fixed it ^^. I edited the debdiff manually and forgot to change the line numbers (what indicate what was chaned)
<sebner> *changed
<sebner> and where
<norsetto> sebner: hmmm, editing a diff might not be easy, sometime is better to redo it from scratch
<sebner> norsetto: well, true but from mistakes we learn :)
<yosch> hi MOTUs, anybody willing to help me fix #180011 by granting an exception for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ttf-ubuntu-title
<RainCT> bug #180011
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180011 in ttf-ubuntu-title "Lack of SFD source file breaks LGPL license and makes file unredistributable!" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180011
<sebner> norsetto: debdiff uploaded. I subscribed motu-release though *you* are a member of this team ^^ mind taking a look?
<norsetto> sebner: I will
<yosch> the finalfreeze email said "ask on irc", I talked with seb128 and he told me to ask one of you
<sebner> norsetto: How often did I thank you in the last days? ^^ Once again. Thanks :)
<norsetto> sebner: too many ;-)
<sebner> norsetto: well, you deserve it :D but if it annoys you ..
<yosch> RainCT: what's the process I should follow now?
<RainCT> yosch: subscribe motu-release to the bug report or ask someone of the motu-release team
<yosch> RainCT: OK, motu-release subscribed. Now how do I do the asking?
<yosch> simply via IRC?
<RainCT> yosch: yes, ping one of those https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+members or just wait for one of them to commment on the bug report
<yosch> RainCT: motu-release or ubuntu-release?
<sebner> yosch: is it in main or universe?
<yosch> sebner: universe
<sebner> yosch: ubuntu-release for main, motu-release for universe
<RainCT> then mout-release
<sebner> RainCT: :P
<RainCT> ^^
<yosch> RainCT: alright got it. Thanks.
<sebner> RainCT: mÃ¶hh ^^
<jdong> holy crap the lzmafication of my backups takes a long time :(
<norsetto> sebner: I would delete the last remark in debian/changelog, thats normal procedure
<sebner> norsetto: ^^ k though I love to do it. Scott already gave a motu-release ack so you may want to upload it? Should I make a new debdiff you would you remove the *note ?
<norsetto> sebner: scott acked from a motu-release pov, you still need sponsoring, thats why I'm telling you
<sebner> norsetto: citat "You may want to upload it"
<norsetto> sebner: ok, I will rework the changelog but note that I'm still getting a warning
<sebner> norsetto: wired. Let me check it again
<norsetto> sebner: Conky: use_spacer should have an argument of left, right, or none.  'yes' seems to be some form of 'true', so defaulting to right.
<sebner> norsetto: That's another mistake. I think I should patch the whole conky.conf
<norsetto> sebner: note that we have use_spacer no in conky.conf ....
<sebner> norsetto: a wait. I patched it to "none"
<norsetto> sebner: are you sure that by patching the data/conky.conf you are actually patching the one installed in /etc/conky/conky.conf?
<sebner> norsetto: I installed the patched version and it patched my /etc/conky/conky.conf as well
<sebner> norsetto: what are exactly the steps to reproduce it?
<norsetto> sebner: well, the file in /etc/conky/conky.conf is different from data/conky.conf (which is installed in /usr/data/doc/conky/examples)
<norsetto> sebner: we should check the upstream Makefile to see how this is installed
<sebner> norsetto: but it got patched too /here O_o
<blueyed> What status should bugs for ~motu-release have? Or aren't they ACKed, as long as motu-release is subscribed?
<blueyed> btw: I'd like to have an ACK for bug 217072 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 217072 in popfile "Popfile is missing IMAP support contrary to description." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217072
<sebner> norsetto: SUBDIRs: data .. wth?
<sebner> norsetto: it's really strange. So what do you do "exactly" whichs causes the warning?
<geser> blueyed: I might be not uptodate on current processes but shouldn't bugs presented to ~motu-release be set to new and once ACKed by ~motu-release set by them to confirmed?
<blueyed> geser: I would have thought so, too, but the queue looks different.
<geser> blueyed: you could try to ask norsetto (or any other from ~motu-release)
<norsetto> sebner: ok, got it
<norsetto> sebner:  it is considered (correctly) as a conf file, so its not replaced on upgrade
<blueyed> norsetto: is there any special use of "Status" in the ~motu-release queue?
<cgillogly> can anyone help me backport pidgin form hardy to gusty...i'm trying to do my own backport since there nothing in the official repo yet
<norsetto> blueyed: yes, new for non-acked requests and confirmed once accepted
<blueyed> norsetto: ok. thanks.
<cgillogly> i've tried using prevu and it's having some dependency issues and i'm not very familiar with doing backports or building packages in general
<blueyed> norsetto: which may be confusing btw, because it falls on the radar of triagers again then.
<norsetto> blueyed: this is the precedure we have been using for as long as I can remember, triagers should be informed accordingly
<sebner> norsetto: Ah. I once reintalled conky. Maybe the next version I installed was already patched ... So debdiff is ok?
<blueyed> norsetto: well, it's OK for me.. just a note.. triagers will see what's going on when looking at the bug, but might pick it by accident before.
<norsetto> sebner: yes, but I don't like this, we will keep the conf file forever, unless we purge
<norsetto> blueyed: don't worry, we have a lonbg pointy stick
<sebner> norsetto: what other possibilities do we have? Since release is comming nearer and nearer
<norsetto> sebner: either using conffiles or maintainer scripts to manage installations/removals
<sebner> norsetto: since I have no knowledge about it and stress at school the next days we may have a problem
<norsetto> sebner: this should anyhow be done in concert with Kapil, best would be to send him an email telling him about the problem
<sebner> norsetto: yeah. but you know 10 days left
<norsetto> sebner: that will be for intrepid
<sebner> norsetto: ahh
<sebner> norsetto: ok then ^^
<yosch> norsetto: do you have a minute to look at an exception request?
<norsetto> yosh: let me finish the one I'm currently looking at, you are the next I believe
<norsetto> yosch: let me finish the one I'm currently looking at, you are the next I believe
<yosch> norsetto: yep, no problem. thanks.
<norsetto> yesch: you should at least provide the info in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess, note that the package in hardy right now is 0.2-0ubuntu1 while yours is 002.000-0ubuntu1
<norsetto> yosch: is the only change the addition of the SFD sources?
<norsetto> yosch: you should at least provide the info in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess, note that the package in hardy right now is 0.2-0ubuntu1 while yours is 002.000-0ubuntu1
<yosch> norsetto: it's a new upstream, what extra info should I add?
<norsetto> yosh: then you need to change version accordingly
<norsetto> yosch: then you need to change version accordingly
 * norsetto will type yosch name correctly once (hopefully)
<norsetto> yosh: see the link for the info required
 * norsetto fails yet again
<norsetto> yosch: see the link for the info required
<sebner> norsetto: conky already uploaded?
<yosch> norsetto: I'm looking at the page
<norsetto> sebner: yep
<sebner> norsetto: great. :)
<norsetto> yosch: did you base your package on the current hardy one? In the changelog there is no mention of it
<pochu> norsetto: have you tried 'yos<tab>' ? ;)
<norsetto> pocu: no (hehehe
<pochu> heh
<yosch> norsetto: it's a new release: the bug was that the source file was not available, the designer Canonical commissioned send the source file, I fixed the metadata and the readme according to the release decision from sabdfl, and made a new release from the tip of the branches hosted on LP: https://launchpad.net/ubuntutitle
<norsetto> yosch: right, so it seems that there is a divergence from your branch and the archive
<yosch> so we're going one step back then I'll work (within the fonts team) on merging the various community branches, also synced on the LP project
<yosch> norsetto: divergence? the diff with the current hardy package is rather larger yes. Or you mean something else?
<norsetto> yosch: even a byte diff is a divergence to me
<yosch> sure
<yosch> now the LP project is the new upstream, and Canonical has clarified source availability, licensing and trademark issues, that's why we need the fixed package
<yosch> what extra info do we need for the exception? I can attach the big diff to the bug.
<norsetto> yosch: ok, but I think you should still base it on the hardy version or we have a problem with the consistency of the archive
<yosch> BTW I had an ack in principle from cjwatson (whom I've been in contact with via email about this) earlier in #ubuntu-devel. He just had to focus on other bugs.
<yosch> Sorry I don't see what you mean. it's a new upstream.
<yosch> norsetto: sorry what do you mean when you say "base it on the hardy version"?
<norsetto> yosch: base your package on the one we have in the repo, at least the changelog needs to have it in the history
<norsetto> yosch: and debian copyright shall reflect the current upstream
<yosch> it's a replacement package: new upstream location, new content, new structure. It made sense to not put changelog entries from before the bug was fixed.
<RainCT> yosch: the old debian/changelog is still necessary if the package has the same name
<norsetto> yosch: of course it does, unless you change the package name
<yosch> right, a changelog entry then
<yosch> what's the trouble with the debian/copyright?
<yosch> it does reflect upstream
<norsetto> yosch: you said the new upstream is the LP project
<yosch> you want a "it was downloaded from?"
<ajmitch> yay, I actually have icons on the desktop & a desktop background now
 * ajmitch had a not-quite-smooth upgrade to hardy :)
<yosch> the copyright and license fields are there and there's a Homepage in debian/control . also the Vcs-* fields
<norsetto> yosch: who is the copyright owner ?
<yosch> copyright owner is Canonical
<norsetto> yosch: so why is canonical not upstream?
<yosch> I had discussion with sabdfl on hosting this on LP for the LoCos to branch it
<yosch> the name of the designer commissioned by Canonical before it got hosted on LP is still there. I see no reason to drop it!
<yosch> but I can add a it was downloaded from ... if you want
<norsetto> yosch: no, of course not, but you should add the current one
<yosch> norsetto: OK got it.
<yosch> I'll add the needed changes
<norsetto> yosch: ok, don't forget to set the status to new once finished or it may not be checked by a motu-release member
<yosch> norsetto: ok willdo. Thanks for the feedback.
<norsetto> yosch: np
<norsetto> g'night folks
<tacone> hello, I am looking for a way to learn and help. what should I do to get a mentor to help me a little bit ?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-15
<pochu> tacone: best is to ask questions here or in the mailing list... but if you want a mentor, ask for one in ubuntu-motu-mentors@l.u.c
<pochu> tacone: to get started look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<tacone> ok, pochu, thank you
<pochu> no problem, and welcome :-)
<tacone> pochu: one thing not so clear to me, is how to really start
<tacone> I mean, reading the wiki, you are supposed to already have contributed something.
<tacone> am I wrong ?
<crimsun> to ask for a mentor?  You do not have to have contributed, no.
<tacone> nice, I'll try to get one then :)
<jdong> ScottK: what'd you say was up with clamav 0.93? is that the release we are handling as a pre-backport?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<crimsun> bddebian: 'lo.
<crimsun> bddebian: thanks for the trang fix-build, BTW.
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<bddebian> Ah, NP
<emgent> morning
<CyberMatt> middle of the night for me
<jdong> superm1: <humor> what do you think about ipod-touch-convenience using -o Ciphers=arcfour?</humor>
<superm1> jdong, could you even come up with a justifiable argument for that :)
<jdong> superm1: 2.2x transfer throughput for syncing?
<superm1> lol
<superm1> i think you hit limitations on wireless BW...
<jdong> which is a big deal loading up a 8GiB video collection
<jdong> superm1: actually no the ARM core in these things is disappointingly short when it comes to SSH :(
<jdong> top shows sshd pegging
<jdong> maybe that means I need to go dropbear instead of openssh
<superm1> what we really need is samba or nfs ported to it
<superm1> although maybe a ftp daemon would suffice too
<jdong> superm1: well surely arcfour is still more secure than FTP ;-)
<jdong> what we *really* need is to rev engineer the USB protocol.
 * superm1 doesn't want to know about the government secrets that jdong passes over ssh to his ipod touch
<superm1> if I even knew where to start on reverse engineering a protocol, i'd be all game for that
<jdong> superm1: I think transmitting songs in cleartext fits some RIAA "making available" argument? :D
<superm1> haha
<jdong> and considering how anally supportive MIT is of the RIAA I don't take any chances.
<jdong> :(
<superm1> i'd anticipate the easiest way to capture the packets is via vmware or a similar VM
<superm1> and a packet capture layer on linux
<jdong> superm1: meh Windows makes it even easier, there's a nice stack of USB snooping tools for Windows that hooks into the kernel layer already
<jdong> superm1: and iTunes has a Windows port :)
<jdong> or we could use DTrace on OS X oh wait that's locked down....
<jdong> :P
<superm1> well then why hasn't anyone done this?
<jdong> superm1: I'm not sure if anyone has. Certainly I don't think jailbreaking is an appropriate solution to syncing the Touches with Linux
<superm1> well in fairness, everyone i know that has one has only purchased it for the purpose to jailbreak it...
<jdong> superm1: well I didn't originally but I eventually had to.
<superm1> "had to"?
<jdong> superm1: I was fine living with what Apple gave me until the $20 apps update nonsense, and syncing it with Ubuntu
<superm1> really?  i couldn't use this w/o the last.fm client on there
<jdong> superm1: and then I got into a brief period of trying to hack around the insides of the iPod Touch only to figure out that this game's no fun with Apple's antagonism
<jdong> superm1: I use my iTouch primarily as a video watching platform. The thing is amazing -- it decodes desktop-resolution hi-res H.264 without skipping a beat
<superm1> use handbrake for the transcoding normally?
<jdong> actually I use an uncastrated ffmpeg mostly
<superm1> woah.  crazy talk
<jdong> because I was unhappy with handbrake's lack of input options.
<jdong> but for DVDs yes I'll use handbrake
<superm1> someone on my team put together a nice transcoding post recording job for myth to bring stuff to h264, but i haven't started to use it because i think i'd prefer to watch it on my LCD tv
<jdong> I'm working on converting my ffmpeg scripts to a mencoder+faac+x264-bin backend
<jdong> that way it can be usable with multiverse out of the box
<jdong> because it seems like ffmpeg is headed in the opposite direction here in Ubuntu
<superm1> yeah so i've noticed
<jdong> it's a shame because my preliminary research shows I'll be off into about 6 commands and fifos everywhere
<jdong> mostly this comes from reverse-engineering handbrake's backend.
<jdong> kinda silly they don't directly use mencoder/mplayer as the frontend too
<emgent> heya people
<jdong> since they already utilize it in the backend (or have the bindings to do so)
<superm1> why don't you just clean up handbrake and add functionality there?
<superm1> jdong, have you done some driver development in the past trying to get this reverse engineered, or just playing messenger?
<jdong> superm1: I've not worked with the iPod Touch but I have had experience reveng'ing other USB peripherals on Windows
<jdong> superm1: unfrotuantely my TODO list is very huge
<superm1> jdong, you might have tickled my fancy for something to work on during the plane ride to UDS...
<jdong> superm1: and for the above question, the handbrake input-frontend is quite silly, complex, and MPEG2-specific and I didn't find it very worthwhile to use it as a base :(
<superm1> jdong, care to point me at some starting points?
<jdong> superm1: sorry need to head out at the moment
<StevenK> I think the first item is 'learn to spell unfortunately'
<StevenK> jdong: ^
<jdong> there's something called usbsnoop or something liek that for Windows
<jdong> StevenK: making fun of my typing skills? :P
<ajmitch> StevenK: harsh
<superm1> i'll start out reading the USB specs I suppose :)
<StevenK> jdong: And your spelling skills
<jdong> StevenK: lol I'm using a laptop keyboard ;-)
<jdong> AND gnome-terminal *STILL* doesn't have spellcheck
<jdong> despite my NUMEROUS whiny e-mails to ubuntu-devel-discuss about my KEYBOARD.
<StevenK> It would have been ironic if I'd mispelled it.
<jdong> </bad impression>
<StevenK> </Ziggy> ?
<asomething> Hey! I've got a question. What is the process for trying to get an exception package in main at this point? Seahorse Bug #215729 has a patch attached that resolves a fairly important bug. I've tested and confirm that it work as well as created a debdiff for it.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 215729 in seahorse "Seahorse fails to import keys" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215729
<asomething> I've only seen info on getting exceptions for universe packages
<Hobbsee> asomething: slangasek was looking into that, as was LaserJock
<asomething> ok, glad to know it's being looked at. I've attached a debdiff to the report and which I've built in pbuilder and installed with no issue :)
<LaserJock> asomething: I already uploaded it once :-)
<LaserJock> I'm trying to make sure slangasek will approve it this time ;-)
<asomething> ï»¿LaserJock: thanks for working on it! I wasn't sure if it was on any ones radar as the bug report didn't have any thing but the patch attempts in its comments
<LaserJock> yeah
<Hobbsee> slangasek: how does the patch get fixed, so it does get approved?
<slangasek> Hobbsee: per the discussion on #ubuntu-devel, the question right now is whether someone is sure that there are no memory leaks in the new code
<Hobbsee> slangasek: hm, sorry, missed the other discussion
<Hobbsee> slangasek: do we have good C people here who know how to check?
<slangasek> well, I know how to check
<slangasek> so if it comes down to me, then the ETA is probably 2h :)
<asomething> ï»¿slangasek: i'm currently running the patched version, if there is any way i can help, let me know
<slangasek> asomething: sorry, at this stage of the freeze I'm really after making sure that it's reviewed by someone who's a) core-dev, b) able to confirm that there aren't any memory leaks
<asomething> ï»¿slangasek: np, definitely understand
<RAOF> asomething: I'm not terribly familiar with glib's types, but that patch declares a (gchar *) and then mallocs enough space for 11 char (not gchar) and assingnes with a (char *) cast.  Either it doesn't matter, and it's just stylistically ugly, or it does matter and it'll (hopefully) segfault on some strange arch.
<RAOF> ...Except the existing code does something similar, so maybe that's standard glib practice that I just find strange :)
<elemjay> Latest Google Tech Talk on the future of Linux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A6ImflixL8
<awmcclain> If I'm packaging a perl module, all the dependencies would be most appropriately listed under build-depends-indep, since the perl module has not architecture-specific binaries, correct?
<awmcclain> s/not/no
<RAOF> awmcclain: It's actually a little bit more subtle than that.
<awmcclain> RAOF: Howso?
<RAOF> awmcclain: I should dig up the policy document.  Basically, b-d-i are guaranteed to be installed for binary-indep:, b-d are guaranteed for clean: etc.
<awmcclain> RAOF:  http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html bottom of page
<awmcclain> RAOF: I'm confused because for the deb files created by dh-make-perl, the build-arch, build-indep and build install targets are all conflated.
<awmcclain> So I don't have a clear example of what the differences are.
<RAOF> Right.  So basically, everything should be in b-d-i *except* for stuff required to run clean (that would be debhelper, dpatch, etc).
<awmcclain> Thank you RAOF
<awmcclain> My attempt to patch one package has ballooned into 6 custom dependency packages, so I'm trying to wrap my head around a lot of concepts.
<RAOF> Heh.
<protonchris> TheMuso: I noticed that you changed Bug 216308 from Fix commited back to confirmed?  Did you run into issues with the updated package?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216308 in glom "Glom crashes when adding record" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216308
<LaserJock> oh fortran how I hate you, let me count the ways
<LaserJock> do i=1, infinity
<LaserJock> write (*,*) 'I hate you'
<LaserJock> done
<LaserJock> s/done/enddo
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<harrisony> j #ubuntu-devel
<emgent> morning
<elmargol> is there a lecture or somoething how to use bazaar to manage a debian package?
<elmargol> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrMaintainerHowto is not very detailed
<Iulian> Hello
<StevenK> Could I convince someone from motu-release to look at bug 181150
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 181150 in moko "[FFe] moko contains a shared library with no soname/dev package handling" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181150
<AnAnt> Hello, what should I put in Vcs-Bzr ? the whole path for the package or just the branch path ?
<AnAnt> the bzr branch has several pacakges
<AnAnt> the bzr branch is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntume.team/ubuntume-artwork/hardy
<AnAnt> the bzr branch is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntume.team/ubuntume-artwork/trunk
<AnAnt> there are several folders in this branch, each branch is for a package
<AnAnt> there are several folders in this branch, each folder is for a package
<jscinoz> ok...
<jscinoz> PPA is being screwy again..
<jscinoz> package failing to build, but the logs are indicating it completed successfully.
<cprov> jscinoz: buildlog url ?
<jscinoz> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13461391/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.urbanterror-data_4.1-0ubuntu3_BUILDING.txt.gz
<doko> is revu.tauware.de down?
<james_w> doko: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003599.html
<doko> nice, so no glassfish for hardy
<james_w> doko: sistpoty may be able to extract the package for you, I'm not sure.
<james_w> Laney: hi, are you around?
<Laney> james_w: Am now, what's up?
<protonchris> TheMuso: Nevermind.  It looks like it just went through thanks.
<soren>  a
<soren> whoops
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<emgent> hi sistpoty|work :)
<sistpoty|work> hi emgent
<elmargol> I'm searching users who can provide some feedback on some packages I created for feisty. https://launchpad.net/~teamgnunet/+archive  (gnunet is an anonymous filesharing network)
<elmargol> -feisty +hardy
<Hobbsee> anyone interested in dealing with rsync?
<StevenK> "dealing with" ?
<Hobbsee> new upstream release, outstanding cves, it looks like
 * persia grumbles about upstream failing to modify copyright attribution or include licensing information in files when they have changed >90% of the content
<\sh> Hobbsee, rsync is main?
<\sh> -?+!
<Hobbsee> \sh: oh, so it is
<Hobbsee> \sh: you could deal with it anyway
<\sh> Hobbsee, grmpf ;) well, actually I need a stable hardy...so I'll check when I'm home...
<Hobbsee> \sh:
<Hobbsee> thankyou.
<\sh> Hobbsee, team to subscribe for main? ubuntu-release?
<Hobbsee> yes
* siretart changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | We're in FinalFreeze, see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-April/000418.html and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze | please check rc bug fixes in debian not having entered ubuntu yet: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | REVU is currently down for maintenance 
<Nafallo> ah.
<Nafallo> I thought I saw a topic change somewhere :-)
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<\sh> re
<emgent> heya \sh :)
<\sh> hey emgent
<promag> hello guys
<promag> $ apt-get install dpxis-app-base
<promag> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<promag>   dpxis-app-base: Depends: dpxis-plugins-base but it is not going to be installed
<promag> how can I FORCE dpxis-plugins-base installation automatically?
<pochu> promag: that package doesn't exist (anymore)
<pochu> well, it has never been in Ubuntu according to packages.ubuntu.com so wrong channel
<emgent> DktrKranz: heya :D
<DktrKranz> hey emgent
<emgent> thanks for cacti
<DktrKranz> you're welcome :)
<DktrKranz> I didn't want to have a SRU around ;)
<emgent> :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: heya :)
<DktrKranz> aloha sebner
<sebner> ^^
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> howz it going
<cbx33> long time :p
<kees> can a motu-release person look at bug 216132?  I'd like to get a refpolicy bug-fix upload exception.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216132 in refpolicy "SELinux breaks CUPS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216132
<stani> pochu, ScottK: I've attached a debdiff to fix Bug #215714. Could one of you take care it gets uploaded?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 215714 in phatch "The path for python extensions should reflect the 2.0 api" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215714
<stani> POX_: Do not apply this patch to Debian. I will prepare phatch-0.1.4 which handles this issue in a better way.
<norsetto> kees: its acked
 * proppy hugs norsetto
<norsetto> proppy: heya!
<proppy> norsetto: howdy ?
<norsetto> proppy: goodie goodie, and you?
<kees> norsetto: okay, thanks.
<proppy> norsetto: nice nice, gnometheming :)
<norsetto> proppy: booh :-) time to convert to the Dark (read Blue) Side ;-)
<proppy> ? :)
<proppy> not sure I'm getting it
<proppy> norsetto: aaah understood
<proppy> blue means kde :) ?
<pochu> stani: I'm on it, thanks for the patch :)
<norsetto> proppy: indeed
<proppy> this one was hard
<proppy> norsetto: you're like yoda to me
<norsetto> proppy: may the farce be with you ;-)
<stani> pochu: thanks
<proppy> haha, you're such a frenchmen
<norsetto> proppy: what can I do .. I spent the last 5 days in France ....
<proppy> sad that we never met there !
<proppy> nancy is too far
<norsetto> proppy: was in Nice this time
<proppy> :)
<sebner> norsetto: we have to convert you back to the brown folks ^^
<norsetto> sebner: vade retro satana!
<sebner> norsetto: latin?
<RainCT> asac: hey, anything new about the adblock-plus bug?
<norsetto> sebner: yes
<sebner> norsetto: Please translate ^
 * proppy wonders if xfce is the "mouse" force
<norsetto> sebner: go away satan! (or whatever the devil is called nowadays)
<pochu> ScottK: ACK to upload phatch, bug 215714? sistpoty approved it but I don't think the phatch task was there at that moment, so he approved nautilus-python... but after that we need to upload phatch too
<sebner> norsetto: gnome rulez :P
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 215714 in phatch "The path for python extensions should reflect the 2.0 api" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215714
<RainCT> asac: uhm.. reading bugmail right now. so taht was a problem in xulrunner?
<RainCT> omg, we are losing norsetto, bring him back! :)
<asac> RainCT: yeah ;)
<asac> the upstream bug is linked in the bug report
<RainCT> asac: ok, cool :)
<asac> RainCT: but that problem was rather old afaict
<norsetto> rainCT: a BIG loss (I'm above the 100 kg now :-()
<asac> we just didn't notice because we didn't ship that extension i guess
<asac> and ignored bugs about it
<asac> so another good thing to get these things in packages
<pochu> ScottK: it's broken right now due to the change in nautilus-python and I've verified Stani's debdiff is correct (and it's really small, a one line fix to change the path)
<crimsun> anyone from MOTU-R willing to approve https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/trang/+bug/141447/comments/14 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141447 in trang "trang segfaults on gutsy (x86 and AMD64)" [Medium,Fix committed]
<bersace> Hi
<bersace> why isn't  gnome-scan updated to 0.6 ? :/
<bersace> release march the 10th !
<bersace> see you later
<stani> pochu: Is ScottK around?
<pochu> stani: doesn't look like :) but he will answer when he's back, don't worry
<pochu> stani: I'll ask in the bug report too, just in case
<pochu> as there are 4 more members in that team :)
<pochu> err
<pochu> actually I think norsetto is one... norsetto ^
<pochu> 22:32 <     pochu> ScottK: it's broken right now due to the change in nautilus-python and I've verified Stani's debdiff is correct (and it's really small, a one line fix to change the path)
<norsetto> hmmm?
<pochu> bug 215714
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 215714 in phatch "The path for python extensions should reflect the 2.0 api" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215714
<pochu> norsetto: we need a motu-release ACK for phatch too
<stani> pochu: yes I saw, maybe it is good to tell him that this bug has been reported in the first place because of Phatch
<pochu> sistpoty approved nautilus-python and now the phatch extension won't work unless we apply stani's fix
<norsetto> pochu: ok, I'll check it asap
<pochu> thanks
<pochu> I'm waiting to press enter :)
<pochu> emilio@saturno:~/tmp$ dput phatch_0.1.3-1ubuntu2_source.changes
<stani> pochu: haha, I wish I could press it for you
<pochu> hmm, actually that wouldn't have worked... ubuntu  isn't my default in /etc/dput.cf :)
<stani> pochu: can you help me to fix this issue better for PAPT with build-depends and pkg-config?
<pochu> stani: well, actually I could upload it and wait for an ack since the queue is set to manual and thus uploads need to be manually accepted, but I'll wait and get an ACK first :)
<stani> pochu: so I can make POX_ happy too
<stani> pochu: I mean for debian not for ubuntu
<pochu> stani: sure. "pkg-config --variable=pythondir nautilus-python" is the command you need
<norsetto> pochu: bug number?
<pochu> norsetto: bug 215714
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 215714 in phatch "The path for python extensions should reflect the 2.0 api" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215714
<pochu> the diff is a one liner
<norsetto> pochu: kind of difficult for motu-release to ack if you don't subscribe ....
<pochu> ah, sorry
<pochu> norsetto: ScottK knows the package so I was expecting him to ACK it, but he isn't around so... :)
<norsetto> pochu: you tested this?
<pochu> norsetto: yes
<norsetto> pochu: yes, with success I guess ...
<pochu> I've verified that a) the nautilus-python update broke it, and b) that this debdiff fixed it
<pochu> of course
<norsetto> pochu, stani: ok, looks good to me, go ahead
<stani> norsetto: thanks
<norsetto> pochu: de nada
<pochu> thank you norsetto
<stani> norsetto: obrigado
<norsetto> stani: maag niet uit ...
<pochu> stani: Successfully uploaded packages.
<pochu> bbl
<stani> norsetto: haha, quite good
<stani> norsetto: ï»¿but should be "maak niet uit" (maag = stomach)
<stani> pochu: thanks!
<norsetto> stani: yes, but its funnier this way ;-)
<stani> norsetto: that is for sure!
<stani> pochu: I don't understand why the package is called python-nautilus but pkg-config uses nautilus-python
<stani> pochu: also the changelog mentions nautilus-python
<stani> pochu: so what is the difference between python-nautilus and nautilus-python?
<norsetto> crimsun: I have no idea what -findirect-dispatch does, but I guess you tested this with success?
<crimsun> norsetto: yes.  It's taken from the Debian change by Barry.
<norsetto> crimsun: I see, perhaps you should mention it in the changelog? Do we also need the -O2 -g in there?
<stani> pochu: other question do I have to add pkg-config to build-depends as well?
<crimsun> norsetto: yes, because I didn't wish to patch Makefile, which is more cumbersome, as well.
<norsetto> crimsun: ok, but perhaps we should then do something similar to what we do for the CFLAGS
<norsetto> crimsun: for the optimisation flag I mean
<crimsun> sure, I'll rediff.
<crimsun> norsetto: updated debdiff attached, thanks.
<sebner> gn8 folks :)
<eddyMul> I'm trying to patch git-core-1.5.4.3-1ubuntu2 in hardy with 1.5.4.3-1ubuntu2~ppa1 from my PPA. somehow, synaptic doesn't see the ~ppa1 as an upgrade. What can I do other than "force version"?
<crimsun> that's because 2~ is lower than 2
<eddyMul> crimsun: ah. I will bump the version, then. thanx!
<crimsun> cf. http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/footnotes.html#f33
<eddyMul> crimsun: so, will 1.5.4.3-1ubuntu3~ppa1 be ok?
<crimsun> that sorts higher than 1.5.4.3-1ubuntu2.anything, however.
<crimsun> try 1.5.4.3-1ubuntu2+ppa1 or something
<eddyMul> crimsun: there have been a "back and forth" wiki changes in the PPAQuickStart page
<eddyMul> about what should be used for appending, '~' or '+'....
<eddyMul> currently, it says '~'....
<eddyMul> https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
<crimsun> in this case I presume you prefer whatever's in your ppa
<eddyMul> crimsun: your assumption is correct.
<eddyMul> crimsun: so I should use +ppa instead of ~ppa, then?
<crimsun> so your target needs to be versioned higher than what's currently in hardy and simultaneously lower than an SRU/security update.
<eddyMul> crimsun: yes.
<crimsun> for /this/ instance, I would use '+' instead of '~'.
* siretart changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | We're in FinalFreeze, see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-April/000418.html and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze | please check rc bug fixes in debian not having entered ubuntu yet: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/
<norsetto> crimsun: have you built this in a ppa? Trying to build it locally just trashes my hd to death
<eddyMul> crimsun: I got it. Just /this/ instance.   :)
<crimsun> norsetto: I've tried twice to build it locally.  I gave up after, each time, it ate through all RAM and swap.  I finally got work permission to build it on a machine there.  It eats about 6 GB.
<norsetto> crimsun: right, god bless java ....
<norsetto> crimsun: ok, go on with that bloated thing
<crimsun> norsetto: to be clear, is that an "ok to upload" for #141447?
<norsetto> crimsun: roger
<crimsun> thanks
<pochu> stani: nautilus-python is the source package (and upstream name), so that's why the changelog (which uses the package name) and pkgconfig (which is from upstream) have nautilus-python
<pochu> stani: the Debian/Ubuntu binary package is called python-nautilus though, as the Python Policy says Python modules should be prefixed with python-
<stani> pochu: ok, so it is changed because of debian policy?
<pochu> yep
<stani> pochu: ok
<pochu> stani: for pkg-config, yes, add it if you are going to use it
<stani> I've added: pkg-config and python-nautilus to build-depends without minimum version requirements as I would now know which ones
<pochu> no need for a minimun version yet
<stani> would not know
<stani> ok
<stani> so I have phatch 0.1.4 ready for debian ;-)
<pochu> :-)
<stani> I've sent an email to POX_ cc to you as well about it
<pochu> great. maybe in 2 years I'm able to sponsor it ;-)
<pochu> stani: you missed commas in your change to debian/control
<stani> pochu: thanks for reviewing, I'll add them now
<stani> pochu: done
<pochu> stani: thanks. btw you should document every change in debian/changelog
<stani> pochu: ok, I will later, I really have to go now
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-16
<norsetto> see u all
<ScottK> jdong: clamav 0.93 is the one we're doing as a pre-backport.  It's a mess and it may be a couple of days before I have something.
<jdong> ScottK: sounds good :)
<emgent> motu-release people please ACK bug #216591 and bug #216117
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216591 in sympa "[CVE-2008-1648] denial of service via crafted Content-Type header" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216591
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RAOF> Howdie bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi RAOF
<RAOF> Damn you, st_string_notify!  You have foiled me for the last time!
<bddebian> heh
<RAOF> Or probably it hasn't; I'm not enough of a 3d ninja to fix/complete nv4x gallium :)
<bddebian> heh
<protonchris> Hey bddebian
<RAOF> We should totally pay someone to hack on nouveau, though.
<bddebian> Hello protonchris
<bddebian> RAOF: nouveau?
<RAOF> !nouveau
<ubotu> Nouveau is an experimental open-source nVidia driver, aiming for full 3d support.  Homepage at http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/ - EXPERIMENTAL packages at https://launchpad.net/~raof/+archive
<RAOF> I may have been raving about it's awesome 2d performance recently :)
<RAOF> (Because it's 2d performance _is_ awesome)
 * RAOF is attacked by the society for the prevention of cruelty to apostrophes.
<bddebian> Oh aye, right
<RAOF> Everyone should totally test the randr12 codepath before it's pushed to the kernel, lest kittens be killed.
<StevenK> RAOF: s/recently/all the time/
<RAOF> StevenK: Well, it's _still_ quite a lot faster than the blob :)
<StevenK> RAOF: When I can play WoW reasonably, I'll be very impressed. :-)
<RAOF> Yeah, yeah.  You could play neverball now, with reflections.
<RAOF> And ppracer, and openarena, etc.
<bddebian> For about 2 minutes until you are asleep from the boredom.. ;-P
<RAOF> Well, yes.
<StevenK> RAOF: What about crack-attack?
<RAOF> What is crack-attack?
<StevenK> apt-cache show it
<RAOF> Hm.  It'll probably run fine.
<StevenK> crack-attack is adictive
<RAOF> I don't have it here, nor do I have an internet connection for my laptop.
<jml> RAOF: I can't believe we haven't played crackattack!
<StevenK> Ha!
 * StevenK shall have to play jml
<RAOF> jml: I'll schedule a duel, shall I?
<jml> RAOF: sure.
<jml> RAOF: what are you up to this weekend anyway?
<RAOF> Naught much.
 * jml takes off channel
<slangasek> wow, I was right about the patch in bug #215729 having a memory leak; I'm not sure if that's uncanny prescience, or jaded lack of confidence in people's C skills... :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 215729 in seahorse "Seahorse fails to import keys" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215729
<lifeless> slangasek: assume noone can write C correctly.
<slangasek> lifeless: apparently I did!
<RAOF> slangasek: It's a fair bet that an arbitrary piece of C code has a memory leak.  The language is designed to make it easy.
<slangasek> (...assume, that is)
<ScottK> slangasek: I was reading Raphael Hertzog's Misc development news today and discovered that our debsign will no longer make legit .changes files for Debian.
 * ScottK wonders if we should update or just consider anyone who cares will manage it.
<slangasek> ScottK: what's illegitimate about them?
<slangasek> oh, right, this is that when you do a separate debsign it doesn't update the sha1 checksums in the .changes to account for the changed .dsc
<ScottK> Yes.  That one.
<lifeless> wt
<lifeless> f
<lifeless> why would debsign regress?
<slangasek> lifeless: it didn't; debsign never knew about the sha1 fields, which dak in Debian now validates
<lifeless> ah
<ScottK> Because someone would update the infrastructure in Debian and then worry about the tools.
<slangasek> ScottK: I'd be inclined to accept a fix, but not worry overly much if it didn't make it in
<ScottK> OK.
<slangasek> ScottK: ah, you don't want me to start ranting about dpkg-dev and the current gtk-doc build failure... :P
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> I'd just like to have a tool set in the release that works for both Lenny and Intrepid.
<slangasek> ScottK: should I goad you into hijacking dpkg in Debian? ;)
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> I've seen how that goes.
<ScottK> I don't care to experience it personally and directly.
<ScottK> At least I saw enough of the public bits of it.
<ScottK> I also recognize that my wanting something doesn't mean it's going to happen.
<StevenK> Hm.
<StevenK> I wonder why bug 181150 didn't get closed
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 181150 in moko "[FFe] moko contains a shared library with no soname/dev package handling" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181150
<ScottK> slangasek: I'm updating our debsign to the 2.10.25 version (without updating the rest of the package).  Assuming it works, are you OK with me uploading that?
<slangasek> ScottK: yeppers
<ScottK> Somehow using debsign to sign the new devscripts package as a test of the updated debsign seems vaguely incestuous.
<StevenK> ScottK: Can I use the same FFe bug for all 3 uploads?
<StevenK> ScottK: (Bug 181150, for reference)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 181150 in moko "[FFe] moko contains a shared library with no soname/dev package handling" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181150
<imbrandon> evening all
<StevenK> imbrandon!
<StevenK> imbrandon: #ubuntu-wow lives, you need to join
<slangasek> ScottK: huh, do you know why the $DEBSIGN_ALWAYS_RESIGN variable is no longer honored in the new debsign?
<imbrandon> StevenK: ahhh yea :)
<dholbach> good morning
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<dholbach> hiya imbrandon
<_ruben> is there some 'trick' to turn a "normal" package with stripped binaries into 2 packages, one "normal" and one "dbg" (with non-stripped) binaries?
<dholbach> _ruben: install pkg-create-dbgsym and just build the package by running    debuild -us -uc
<dholbach> pkg-create-dbgsym then will create a .ddeb
<_ruben> dholbach: and when using pbuilder ?
<dholbach> _ruben: is it a package in the archive?
<_ruben> dholbach: no, well, newer version of one that is in the archives
<dholbach> right :/
<dholbach> you could try if DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="noopt nostrip" works
<_ruben> but that would make just a non-stripped binary package right? right now i build my package twice, once with, once without dh_strip
<soren> _ruben: Why can't you use pkg-create-dbgsym?
<\sh> dholbach, we should add pkg-create-dbgsym during devel cycles into the debootstrap templates
<\sh> _ruben, pkg-create-dbgsym is installed on our buildds, and if you add them to your pbuilder chroot (pbuilder --save-after login , apt-get install pkg-create-dbgsym, something like this) will give you the very same binary package output as our buildds are creating during devel cycles...
<dholbach> \sh: not sure that's desirable - especially since we have .ddeb files at http://ddebs.ubuntu.com anyway
<soren> _ruben: "pbuilder --update --extrapackages pkg-create-dbgsym" seems like the right approach.
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<_ruben> soren: its the first time i hear about that package, playing with it now
<_ruben> i guess i shouldnt have dh_strip in my debian/rules file then or what?
<soren> _ruben: Just add pkg-create-dbgsym to your chroot, and you'll be fine.
<soren> That's it. Really.
<\sh> dholbach, well, building the package with the same build infrastructure is sometimes better, then building a package with success and then seeing it ftbfsing on the buildds ;)
<_ruben> soren: ok, updating chroot
<dholbach> \sh: ?
<\sh> dholbach, I had some packages which failed just because of this package in our buildd...(wine e.g.)
<dholbach> \sh: a package is very unlikely to fail building in the pkg-create-dbgsym step
<dholbach> right, but those bugs have been fixed
<\sh> dholbach, pkg-create-dbgsym tweaks dh_strip afaiks...
<dholbach> I'm not sure people should have .ddebs lying around they're not going to need :)
<dholbach> just because pkg-create-dbgsym might fail in 0.xxx% of the cases :)
<soren> \sh: Why would wine fail because of pkg-create-dbgsym?
<\sh> soren, actually we don't know..but the magic behind pkg-create-dbgsym and the changed dh_strip call, made some binaries unsuable and failed building the package actually on amd64...first we just ignored the dh_strip result then (-dh_strip) but that gave us huge packages, and then excluding special binaries helped for that...but if there is a difference between "dh_strip" without the magic, and dh_strip with our magic, I would like to know before I u
<\sh> pload to the buildd
<\sh> meeting...bbl
<_ruben> ahh .. pkg-create-dbgsym creates a suplemental package which has non-stripped binaries stored in a 'special' directory .. kinda nice solution ;-)
<afflux> gah. I'm blind. May someone unsubscribe motu-release from bug 195508? It's a main package :(
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 195508 in system-config-printer "applet.py crashed with AttributeError in check_for_jobs()" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195508
<TheMuso> afflux: I'll take care of it.
<afflux> thanks
<TheMuso> afflux: done.
<HighNo> /join #okko
<HighNo> doh
<jeromeg> hello
<jeromeg> could someone of motu release team review bug 216698 ?
<\sh> bug #216698
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216698 in xpad "xpad 100% CPU bug" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216698
<jeromeg> oh it seems that thu guy forgot to attach a diffstat
<jeromeg> i'll attach one
<TheMuso> jeromeg: Diffstats aren't usually needed.
<jeromeg> ok
<jeromeg> TheMuso: 2.14 only fixes this bug anyway
<jeromeg> and it's already in debian
<elmargol_> I search a documentation for bazaar or git for maintaining ubuntu packages
<elmargol_> Any advise?
<broonie> elmargol_: Look at git-buildpackage for git.
<broonie> elmargol_: bzr-builddeb for bzr
<doko> hi motu, please comment on bug #218133
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218133 in sun-java6 "UVF exception for hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218133
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<james_w> hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi james_w
<RainCT> Hey
<Iulian> Hey
<RainCT> Hi Iulian
<Iulian> Hello RainCT
<ScottK> slangasek: Re debsign and $DEBSIGN_ALWAYS_RESIGN - no I don't.
<ScottK> StevenK: My recollection is that I thougt it applied to all three.  I'm not going to look again to see if that's incorrect.
<StevenK> ScottK: Fair enough
<ScottK> slangasek: debian/changelog is silent on the issue.
<slomo> superm1: ping?
<elmargol_> Someone knows a tool like meld to visually merge 2 bazaar revisions?
<james_w> elmargol_: I think http://erik.bagfors.nu/bzr-plugins/extmerge is what you want
<james_w> though #bzr would be a better place to ask.
<elmargol_> thx
<afflux> Riddell: someone wants to contact you about some broken dependency in your ppa (see bug 217709)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 217709 in network-manager "Hardy beta network manager cant upgrade" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217709
<Riddell> afflux: he should stop using the ppa then
<superm1> hi slomo
<superm1> what's up?
<afflux> that's why I set this to invalid. But as he asked how to contact you, I just pinged you ;)
<smallfoot-> hardy is on 8 days, please hurry up and fix the pink shadows & window decoration bug in the nvidia-utils drivers package
<smallfoot-> also please in repo - codeblocks, jahshaka, etc
<danielm> Hi all. g'morning..
<smallfoot-> hiya
<danielm> i'm building a package using cdbs. I need to add some example files, so i use: DEB_INSTALL_EXAMPLES_mypack-name1 = example.conf
<danielm> The file example.conf is in debian/ but when i build the package always get this error: http://rafb.net/p/ugsQSq87.html
<danielm> i need to set a path to file? I can't figure out what is wrong :/
<\sh> danielm, what about debian/example.conf ?
<\sh> danielm, because dh_installexamples is working from $(CURDIR)
<\sh> that's why I hate cdbs..it hides things from people
<danielm> yes, the file is in debian/example.conf.. $(CURDIR)? mm i'll check the log again
<\sh> danielm, $(CURDIR) is the directory where the buildprocess extracts the source packages...which means something like: $TMP/foo/source-pkg-name-version/ <-- $(CURDIR) your example is in debian/ which is relative to curdir, so you need to set DEB_INSTALL_EXAMPLES_mypack-name1= debian/example.conf to let dh_installexamples know where to find this file
<\sh> danielm, you should really forget about cdbs an start at least with debhelper packaging provided by dh_make as templatemaker
<\sh> danielm, so you actually understand what's happening inside deep black cdbs magic
<emgent> heya
<danielm> hehe... ok \sh .. thanks a lot.
<ScottK> jdong: Do we want Bug #218182?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218182 in deluge-torrent "Please sync deluge-torrent 0.5.8.7-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218182
<jdong> ScottK: that one looks trivial probably low-risk to drag in, but what is the relation between the debian and upstream changelogs?
<jdong> they are for very different versions
<ScottK> jdong: I didn't look at it in detail.  That's why I pinged you.
<jdong> and I'm far more interested at the claimed bugfixes in the 0.5.8.9 release...
<ScottK> dholbach: I'd like to suggest you send a mail to the MOTU list saying nevermind on single ack uploads for New packages so we can stop writing mails and move on to other things.
<ScottK> RainCT: I think you and jdong should talk about what we want to do with deluge-torrent.
<jdong> ScottK: but yeah, it's +1 from me for the requested sync for sure, but the fixes in .8.9 should be looked at, backported, uupdated to that version, etc
<jdong> as the fixes are much more important (read: crashers)
<jdong> RainCT: ^^
<ScottK> jdong: If you want to just straight to .9, let's just do it and not bug the archive with a sync.
<jdong> ScottK: that sounds like a plan
<jdong> though I'm quite busy and probably won't be able to get to it ( RainCT, it's all yours? :D)
<ScottK> jdong: Thanks.  I added that discussion to the bug too.
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: Would you please have a look at Bug #206469 and make a recommendation.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 206469 in firebird2.0 "sync firebird2.0 from debian " [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206469
<dholbach> ScottK: The discussion should probably change in its form - I never wanted to stop anybody from doing their work, I do care about the topic though and a lot of the feedback was very useful
<Hobbsee> do i want to read it?
<ScottK> dholbach: I'm not saying you did, it's just that time replying to the thread is time not spent fixing stuff and I think it's pretty well run it's course.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: No.  You don't.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: what's the short version?
<ScottK> Short version is having to get two MOTU sponsors is two hard for new packages.  We should make it just one.
<ScottK> two/too on the second one.
<Hobbsee> ah right
<Hobbsee> and people said no?
<ScottK> Yes.
<Hobbsee> go tit
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i appear to be reading anyway.
 * ScottK hands Hobbsee some Valium.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i still think that it woudl be more helpful to focus on getting bugs fixed, etc, than putting new stuff into the archive, and watching it go out of date.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> "Fix me 5 bugs and I'll upload your package."
<sistpoty|work> anyone mind revu going down again? (I'm about to reboot spooky for new kernel, not too sure if it'll come back up)
<Hobbsee> 2) why do we deem
<Hobbsee> the reviewing of new packages different than uploading for example new
<Hobbsee> packages versions, etc.?
<Hobbsee> heh.  because there's a hell of a lot of difference in the amount of work involved, which tends to mean a lot of potential to get it wrong!
<sistpoty|work> yeah, and imho reviewing is even more difficult than producing a new sourcepackage
 * Hobbsee doesn't tend to do either, so...
 * Hobbsee clubs cody-somerville
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: please don't quote an entire very long mail to only write a paragraph relating to a small amount of it.  Quote for context, not because you can quote the entire thing.
 * ScottK really thinks we ought to require MOTUs to get one other MOTU to ack a new package.
 * cody-somerville incurs concussion.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: do you really think the other motu is not going to go "ack", just because you're a MOTU yourself, and they trust you?
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: I beg to differ. I believe that MOTUs should know when to ask, so I would leave it as is
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: i didn't say  in the head.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: When I've asked for reviews and gotten them, they've found stuff.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: right
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I agree they should know, but not that they do.
<ScottK> I think the smart ones are already asking, but the rule is needed for the ones that don't know as much as they think they do.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: hm... then we should fix that, maybe with a long and pointy stick (TM) ;)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: you'll have to find a mega-positive way to put it all first, if you want to use the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: ie, you can't say that people are screwing up, etc.
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: so good luck to you
<Hobbsee> ScottK: of course, thsi will all become very interesting with the new addons
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: you just need to phrase it in positive words, so rather the use the pink stick of happiness :P
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: ahhh.  is that the problem.  with ponies.
<sistpoty|work> and sugar on the top *g*
<ScottK> Dropping a pony on someone might work.
<sistpoty|work> heh
<\sh> there is a difference between new packages and new packages...
<\sh> new packages from MOTUs (e.g. with upload rights) and those packages are wrong, the uploader == packager needs to fix it asap, or he/she's doomed
<Pici> New packages and new packages?
<\sh> new packages from "outsiders" who are not intending to become a motu, are mostly "buggy package, damn, I'm outta here"
<zul> thats what the development cycle is for
<Pici>  ah.
<sistpoty|work> \sh: agreed
<Hobbsee> \sh: i find it interestnig the number of people who never comment on why their package is missing from the web UI.
<ScottK> zul: Only if there are developers to work on it.
<Hobbsee> at all.
<Hobbsee> \sh: or who managed to get it uploaded in another way, but never bothered to actually notify revu
<zul> ScottK: well if you sponsor an upload then you should keep an eye on it
<Hobbsee> now, as to whether it has a working email address, i'm unsure, but...
<ScottK> zul: Maybe the solution is that the uploader has to sign up for bugmail.
<zul> ScottK: thats a given
<\sh> zul, that's a problem actually, because the whole motu team is responsible when the NEW package hits the archives
<ScottK> zul: Is it?  Where is that written down?
<zul> ScottK: common sense
<ScottK> zul: First rule of common sense is that it isn't common.
 * sistpoty|work admits that he usually doesn't keep an eye after sponsoring an upload, but rather makes sure that the upload is ok
<\sh> zul, just because we don't have a single person maintainership policy for packages like debian has (even if the maitnainer could be a team)
<Hobbsee> \sh: persuade people to go thru debian too then :P
<Hobbsee> well, isntead.
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | We're in FinalFreeze, see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-April/000418.html and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze | please check rc bug fixes in debian not having entered ubuntu yet: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | REVU down (again)
<\sh> Hobbsee, honestly, I don't push people to debian, just because they will be more annoyed sometimes ;) it's even easier for us, when the package already is in ubuntu...to be picked up by some fellow motu which is also a DD or DM
<Hobbsee> true
 * Hobbsee just doesn't deal in new packages, in most cases.
<Hobbsee> makes it all much easier and, for the most part, enjoyable.
<Hobbsee> if it's something interesting, debian usually has it packaged.
<sistpoty|work> seems like the whole discussion has made spooky unhappy...
<Hobbsee> if not, then i'll look at asking a clued contributor to package it, *then* i'll look at reviewing it
<\sh> Hobbsee, I'm only reviewing packages from known people where I know, too, that they're staying with ubuntu for around 6 months ;)
<Hobbsee> \sh: oh yeah.  that helps.
<Hobbsee> i'll review effie_jayx's stuff, for eg, and rexbron's.  That's about it.
<\sh> TBH, many packages which rottens on revu, there is no one who cares about, because most people think: "Hey packaging is simple and easy...let's play" upload to revu and after the first "dude, you made a mistake here there and ..." statement, they leave without a trace...
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> who knows how much of the advertising is actually causing that
<Hobbsee> people seem to think it's a caes of checkinstall-style packaging
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: re bug 206469, I'm fine with the sync, given Damyan explanation. I'll prepare information for the FFe later this evening.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 206469 in firebird2.0 "sync firebird2.0 from debian " [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206469
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: Great.  Please comment to that effect in the bug.
<\sh> therefore it makes no sense ... and only a minority of serious contributors are appreciating our reviews and fixing the stuff and taking care..this makes me happy...but you know, 100 packages on revu, 90% are getting rotten and 10% are candidates for serious upload
<Hobbsee> so you pretty much have to make a whitelist.
<\sh> Hobbsee, indeed
<Hobbsee> would it make sense to make the new focus bugfixing?
<Hobbsee> seeing as they can be mostly drive-by?
<Hobbsee> although i *did* see a UVFe yesterday for rsync, whcih had comments to the effect of "why hasn't anyone done anything about this yet?" when they hadn't subscribed the relevant teams
<\sh> Hobbsee, I took care yesterday...
<Hobbsee> \sh: i meant before that.
<Hobbsee> \sh: was 2 unknowns
<\sh> Hobbsee, well, the problem here is: nobody from main took care about it
<Hobbsee> \sh: main doesn't have maintainers either
<\sh> Hobbsee, it's a maintained and supported package and people should have it on their radar...
<\sh> Hobbsee, I meant "support by canonical", tbh
<Hobbsee> \sh: oh right.  yes, well.
<\sh> Hobbsee, we need to review our workflows regarding packages in general, that's for main/restricted and universe/multiverse as well...there are too many tasks now, where people need to focus on...and not all or nothing
<Hobbsee> \sh: if you go down that path, youv'e got absolutely no need for core devs who are not employed to work on ubuntu
<\sh> Hobbsee, the opposite is better...
<\sh> Hobbsee, we need more community core-devs which are not involved in coding for the distro
<Hobbsee> \sh: i know.  which is why i was pointing out that the "supported by canonical" path is a bad one
<Hobbsee> This change would, I believe, have a significant impact on archive admin
<Hobbsee> workload.  They'd get a lot more packages and have to deal with more
<Hobbsee> rejections and multiple reviews.  In effect this would shift work from MOTU
<\sh> Hobbsee, we need more serious community people to get packages into the devel cycle while it's fresh, but with serious views (e.g. testing before upload, and not only build testing ;))
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> to the archive.  I don't think it's a good idea.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: then again, if only trusted MOTU's were the archive admins, you *should* be fine.
<Hobbsee> but that would mean they couldn't be the first reviewers.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> \sh: true
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Sure, but your list and mine may not be the same.
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work
<ScottK> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ScottK :_)
<Hobbsee> \sh: good luck in getting that implemented, without getting shot down for saying people get things wrong.  But yes, that's the idea.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i presume the archive admins would need some comprehensive list
<Hobbsee> ScottK: (a combinatino of all the lists)
<ScottK> Yeah.  Not sure how to go about it.
<\sh> ScottK, Hobbsee : we had this discussion when we discussed core-app of till...archive admins should review some serious things, like legal issues (licenseing etc.) but not simple QA things, which has to be catched before the package even hits the NEW queue
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> In his case there was an unfortunate overlap in the roles that made it look worse than it was.
<\sh> and that's why we invented REVU in the first place...the one and only first contact of a package is Universe  which means: fight the motu reviews, and move on
<ScottK> Agreed.
<Hobbsee> \sh: but it's not unfeasible that at least some of the MOTU's will become archive admins.
<Hobbsee> trust me on this one.
<Hobbsee> \sh: heck, we already have one.
<Hobbsee> there's no reason to expect that would not expand
<\sh> Hobbsee, I don't say, that it's not feasable to have community archive admins...I would like to see universe/multiverse NEW queue processing in MOTU hands, and not going through the time limited resources of archive admin of the day
<Hobbsee> \sh: so, in the event that that happens, how would you deal with the problem then?
<\sh> Hobbsee, but I, too, have objections dealing and playing with infrastructure systems of a company, without having a written permission: yes you are invited to do stupid things, because you learn it now
<Hobbsee> \sh: i don't think a company would really be silly enough to give away stuff like that, without making sure it couldn't blow up other areas.  that doesn't make sense
<\sh> Hobbsee, universe/multiverse is community driven, so give the motu community the right to establish processes the way the motu community wants..
<Hobbsee> \sh: so, in the event that they do that, what would MOTU do then?
<Hobbsee> this is my question to you.
<\sh> Hobbsee, we will become a structured team with responsibilities
<Hobbsee> magically, of course.  with fairies.
<sistpoty|work> heh, mok0: I find the "service check" thingy in your mail quite funny, because accidentally revu is down right now *g*
<\sh> Hobbsee, not magically...we will see some drop outs, at least, because we will have more pressure sometimes, but it's natural selection
<mok0> sistpoty|work: hah
<\sh> Hobbsee, the whole point comes out to "do I trust people who are working on my property?" (property here: server, infrastructure etc.)
<Hobbsee> \sh: no, my point comes down to "in the likely event that that happens, what will MOTU do, and should we discuss that now, rather than another round of the same old discussions)
<Hobbsee> s/)/"/
<johan> Hi, is this a good place to ask ubuntu packaging questions?
<sistpoty|work> johan: yes, it is
<jpatrick> johan: yep :)
<mok0> johan: yes
<johan> Okay, so I am currently trying to package a project using autotools and I use cdbs and the class/gnome.mk makefile to simplify that
<johan> I just uploaded the package to my ppa and it says the following when trying to build the package:
<johan> configure: error: cannot find install-sh or install.sh in "." "./.." "./../.."
<johan> the full build log can be found here, if anyone wants to take a look; http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13506321/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-lpia.flumotion_0.5.1.1-0flu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<\sh> Hobbsee, honestly, the last time in motu space there was too much political discussions...and that's tiring me, and eventually others
 * Hobbsee decides to shut up, and wait for the annoucement.  And then watch the great "oh my goodness, what should we do?"
<\sh> Hobbsee, i don't know if it's important, but let's discuss it now, and then never again
<\sh> Hobbsee, but not during an UDS...because not all people are attending...and I want to know, that all "active" motus are involved...
<Hobbsee> When the board game changes, the player adapts.  No point trying to suggest they adapt prior to the event.
<\sh> Hobbsee, I don't want to have sabdfl-decisions from non-sabdfls
<johan> perhaps I am doing something wrong when uploading directly from an svn checkout
<\sh> let's say it like that...it's important to have a common consense, a democratic decision ... that makes everyone happy
<geser> johan: looking into your tar.gz install-sh is a symlink (but I didn't check where it points to and if the target exists)
<geser> johan: does it point to a file which exists during the build?
<sistpoty|work> johan: looks like you'll need to call autotools stuff (aclocal, autoconf, automake) beforehand... not too sure if there's a cdbs class that does taht
<\sh> sistpoty|work, there is
<johan> geser: oh, that must be, I could change to do automake -c -a instead of just automake -a
<sistpoty|work> \sh: then I take everything back and claim the contrary :P
<\sh> https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2528414
<\sh> CDBS can be asked to update libtool, autoconf, and automake files, but this behavior is likely to break the build system and is '''STRONGLY''' discouraged.
<\sh> 				Nevertheless, if you still want this feature, set the following variables :
<\sh>  				
<\sh>     * DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_LIBTOOL
<\sh>     * DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOCONF
<\sh>     * DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOMAKE
<\sh> damn..
<\sh> sry
<\sh> so you do it "before using debuild -S -sa" and not "inside debian/rules" (debhelper or cdbs wise)
<\sh> "before" means, do it manually
<johan> I think just replacing the symlinks with copies should work in my case
<\sh> johan, automake does this for you...
<\sh> johan, read the man automake part about --force-missing and rethink the usage of --copy while calling automake
<\sh> automake --add-missing --force-missing --copy is what you want when I puzzle all statements together, without even knowing about what you and sistpoty|work are talking ;)
<johan> \sh: oh, let me try
<\sh> did anyone receive my mails to ubuntu-motu actually? I have a strange feeling that something is borked on my mail site
<jdong> \sh: I think I just got one from you
<jdong> \sh: yeah you're coming through
<jdong> at least for me ;-)
<\sh> jdong, hmm...ok...then something is wrong on the mail server of a friend of mine...great...:) thx
<ScottK> \sh: If you look in the archive you'll see mails from you there.  Mailman does have an option not to get your own posts (IIRC).  Maybe that's set.
<\sh> ScottK, no...I got my mails now...too many spam mails error imho
<ScottK> Ah.  OK.
 * \sh needs a new server
<RainCT> blueyed: ping
<blueyed> RainCT: pong
<RainCT> blueyed: two things about ubuntu-dev-tools... first, you should be able to push into the trunk yourself
<blueyed> RainCT: ah, of course.
<johan> warning, `debian/flumotion/DEBIAN/control' contains user-defined field `Python-Version'
<johan> dpkg-genchanges: warning: unknown information field 'Xb-Python-Version' in input data in package's section of control info file
<johan> what can I replace that with?
<blueyed> johan: AFAIK just remove the "Xb-", but I'm not sure..
<RainCT> johan: that's normal, just ignore the warning
<RainCT> I think Xb-Python-Version is right.. perhaps ScottK can confirm that?
<blueyed> yes, according to http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy it is
<ScottK> johan: dpkg-genchanges just hasn't been taught about that field.  You can ignore that warning.
<johan> ScottK: okay, thanks
<RainCT> blueyed: and the other thing, when I saw that it now looks for cookies in .mozilla/*/* I wondered if it wouldn't be better to only look in the profile that's being used (now I'm not that sure about that anymore but wanted to let you know anyway so that you can think about it :P)
<blueyed> RainCT: it was looking in .mozilla before, didn't it?
<RainCT> blueyed: uhm.. I think it didn't, let me check
<blueyed> RainCT: IIRC I've only extended it for FF3 and ~/.lpcookie.txt.
<blueyed> IMHO this should be generalized in python-launchpad-bugs anyway..
<geser> blueyed: since when does python-lp-bugs support the FF3 cookie file?
<blueyed> geser: not sure, I've seen that in the code however..
<RainCT> blueyed: ah yes, it did
<blueyed> geser: I've not tested it, probably, using ~/.lpcookie.txt myself.
<geser> all I know is that it supports FF2 cookies and passing username/password
<RainCT> geser: I haven't tried myself but I've also heard that it has FF3 support now (although perhaps that's not yet in the repos)
<RainCT> or perhaps I've heard wrong.. :)
<geser> it would really be good if python-lp-bugs has a common file for auth data
<geser> I've taken the .mozilla/*/* code from some other script
 * RainCT agrees
<blueyed> Search in /usr/share/pyshared/launchpadbugs/http_connection.py for sqlite, looks like it should work.
<RainCT> but I'm not sure if they would want to have that in there.. it isn't really the same but I asked them to accept '~/cookie_file' as a name (instead of having to pass '/home/username/cookie_file') and they said no -.-
<geser> blueyed: nice, it extract the cookie data and stores it in a temporary file in FF2 cookie format
<RainCT> jdong: I'm looking at deluge ;)
<jdong> RainCT: alright, let the flood gates open :D
<jdong> don't get flooded over your head
<jdong> more deluge puns go here...
<RainCT> ScottK: can I consider bug #218182 as acked or do you want a debdiff once it's ready?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218182 in deluge-torrent "deluge-torrent: new upstream version 0.5.8.9" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218182
<jdong> RainCT: I'd expect a debdiff to be unimportant unless you find yourself needing to make nontrivial changes to make the packaging work
<ScottK> RainCT: You and jdong conspire.  Once you've tested it and jdong agrees it's good, then go ahead and upload.
<jdong> ScottK: haha nicely worded :)
<ScottK> ;-)
<laga> hello. i'm not sure if we're in milestone freeze yet or not.. but i'd appreciate if someone could take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythbuntu-diskless/+bug/218262 - small bug fix for something which needs to end up on the mythbuntu alternate disk :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218262 in mythbuntu-diskless "various failures in mythbuntu-diskless-client-builder.postinst on alt disk" [Undecided,New]
<RainCT> ScottK: heh. OK, thanks
<ScottK> laga: Ack from motu-release.  Just ask superm1 to upload it.
<laga> ScottK: yay. superm1, please upload 218262.. or upload the latest from the bzr branch
<ScottK> superm1: Sponsor's review is up to you.
<crimsun> asac: did you mean "intrepid" in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/192888/comments/56 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 192888 in libflashsupport "firefox crashes on flash contents" [High,Confirmed]
 * ScottK had the same question.
<ScottK> I assumed he did.
<RainCT> jdong: ok, package should be ready (pbuilding and test installing now). what do you want to see?
<jdahlin> I get this error message each time I run debuild:
<jdahlin> This package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be
<jdahlin> an appropriate original tar file or .orig directory in the parent directory;
<jdahlin> (expected flumotion_0.5.1.1.orig.tar.gz or svn.orig)
<jdahlin> Is there a way to get around that, without renaming the directory?
<james_w> jdahlin: it's asking you to create "flumotion_0.5.1.1.orig.tar.gz" in the parent directory
 * sistpoty|work heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
<jdahlin> james_w: hmm
<james_w> either by renaming the upstream tarball, or repacking it if it's .bz2 or something
<jdahlin> perhaps I should just create a svn.orig.tar.gz
<james_w> that svn.orig bit is weird.
<james_w> the package name is "flumotion" correct? What's the version number?
<jdahlin> 0.5.1.1 is correct
<james_w> in debian/changelog?
<james_w> 0.5.1.1-1?
<jdahlin> 0.5.1.1-0flu5
<james_w> ok, that looks like a bug then
<james_w> it should work if you create the desired tarball.
<james_w> are you on hardy?
<jdahlin> yes I am
<jdahlin> well, I didn't create the tarball
<jdahlin> but I'll do is, a make dist should be fine
<james_w> jdahlin: ah, you're in a directory called "svn"
<james_w> does that have both your code and the "debian/" directory?
<jdahlin> james_w: exactly
<LucidFox> Hmm
<LucidFox> I just upgraded to hardy...
<james_w> jdahlin: ah, ok. So, what it wants to do is have a tarball/directory of the "upstream" code, which it can then compare with the combined code to produce the .diff.gz part of the source package
<LucidFox> sikon@lucidfox:~$ nautilus
<LucidFox> nautilus: symbol lookup error: nautilus: undefined symbol: eel_art_irect_empty
<LucidFox> any ideas?
<jdahlin> LucidFox: missing dependency on latest eel?
<jdahlin> james_w: oh, I'll do that, a make dist before should solve that
<james_w> you can do this in 3 ways I think, produce a tarball/directory without debian/ and use that, use the same code to get an empty diff, or make a native package.
<james_w> the preferred way for upload to Ubuntu is the first, but it sounds like you are not aiming for that
<jdahlin> but where should I put the debian/ directory then?
<jdahlin> I was actually planing to include the debian/ directory in the tarball
<james_w> yeah, that's a native package
<james_w> it's not liked for upload to Debian/Ubuntu, as it means that if there is a packaging mistake it will require a new upstream release, and NMUs of those packages are a strange thing
<james_w> however, it's still a perfectly good package
<jdahlin> this is not really intended to be uploaded to debian or ubuntu
<ScottK> jdahlin: If you include the debian dir in the tarball, the first thing that will happen if you submit it to Debian/Ubuntu is you'll be asked to remove it.
<jdahlin> we're rather going to distribute it separately
<james_w> to do this you just need to change the version number and remove "-".
<jdahlin> ScottK: I'll check with the ubuntu maintainer
<jdahlin> okay, I have a flumotion-0.5.1.1.tar.bz2 now, but debuild apparently expects a flumotion-0.5.1.1.orig.tar.bz2
<james_w> yup
<LucidFox> I have the latest nautilus and libeel installed, and nautilus references some eel_art_* functions, which are not in libeel
<LucidFox> according to readelf
<jdahlin> check upstream if they are available
<jdahlin> otherwise they might have been removed, because I think nautilus uses cairo in favor of libart these days (assumg eel_art are convencience functions on top of libart)
<asac> crimsun: obviously!
<crimsun> asac: ok
<asac> :)
<asac> sorry for confusino
<LucidFox> but why would an upgrade to default Hardy versions of nautilus and libeel break it?
<LucidFox> I'm really lost here
<pochu> LucidFox: I guess you have libeel2-2 2.22.1-0ubuntu1 installed, right?
<LucidFox> yes
<LucidFox> do I need to rollback to a previous version?
<pochu> emilio@saturno:~$ readelf -a /usr/bin/nautilus | grep eel_art
<pochu> emilio@saturno:~$
<pochu> what version of nautilus do you have?
<LucidFox> hmmm
<LucidFox> 1:2.22.2-0ubuntu3
<LucidFox> but that's strange
<LucidFox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7220/
<pochu> LucidFox: indeed... what arch?
<LucidFox> i386
<pochu> same here
<pochu> and same version
 * LucidFox tries removing and installing nautilus again
<pochu> LucidFox: can you bring that to #ubuntu-bugs?
<LucidFox> wait!
<LucidFox> I got it
<LucidFox> I added a dpkg-divert previously
<pochu> have you rebooted after upgrading to hardy?
<pochu> I don't know that :)
<LucidFox> so /usr/bin/nautilus wasn't affected by the upgrade
<pochu> ah
<LucidFox> and it remained even after unintasll
<LucidFox> It works!
<LucidFox> Thanks everyone
<ScottK> pochu: Remember the spe changes you made to simplify dpatch integration?
<ScottK> pochu: I think the dpatch man page could benifit from an example using your method.  I'd suggest it'd be cool if you could make a patch to the man page to add an additional example and send it to Debian.
<pochu> ScottK: ok, let me have a look at the manpage
<ScottK> pochu: Thanks.  I always did it the long way following the man page and didn't know any other.
<pochu> ScottK: right. I'm going to make one now. I didn't know it was in the manpage. I learnt it directly from POX_
 * pochu hugs POX_ :)
<pochu> ScottK: thanks
<jeromeg> hello
<jeromeg> anyone of motu release team for bug 216698 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216698 in xpad "xpad 100% CPU bug" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216698
<DktrKranz> ScottK, current firebird2.0 in sid doesn't add any new features (only translations), could you please review bug 206469 and eventually ACK it?
 * ScottK had that on his list to look at.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 206469 in firebird2.0 "sync firebird2.0 from debian " [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206469
<ScottK> DktrKranz: SUre.
<DktrKranz> thanls
<DktrKranz> s/l/k/
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Do we no longer need "Replace libicu36-dev with libicu-dev"?
<DktrKranz> already in debian
<POX_> heh, pochu: what did you learn from me? (sorry, no time to read backlog)
<azeem> slangasek: uh, probably multisync0.90 should've been updated as well, but I forgot
<azeem> same for multisync-tools
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Sync bug needs to say why it's OK to over-write an Ubuntu change.  Add that and then subscribe the archive.  Ack from me for after it's fixed.
<DktrKranz> sure, I'll adjust description
<pochu> POX_: many things? :) (it was about dpatch in debian/rules, dpatch(1) shows how to do it, but it looks h4ck!sh)
<pochu> ScottK: http://pastebin.com/fe5d0967, do you think the wording should be changed too?
 * ScottK looks
<pochu> "       Let  us  look  at  an  example!  First,  let  us  look  at  the relevant parts of the original
<pochu>        debian/rules of our imaginary package:
<pochu> that stuff...
<ScottK> pochu: I'd suggest adding it as an additional example, not instead of the current one.
<ScottK> pochu: with text something like, "Alternatively, you can use dpatch.make and do it this way:"
<pochu> ScottK: sounds good, gonna do that
<ScottK> Great.
<slangasek> azeem: oh. those packages seem to work, though?
<POX_> pochu: you know what my price is, right?
<pochu> POX_: keeping PAPT without RC bugs? :-)
<POX_> yup
<POX_> PAPT or DPMT
<pochu> I'm not on DPMT
<pochu> and PAPT is clean :)
<POX_> so you're lucky, there are RC bugs there
<pochu> I think I'll leave them to ScottK who is a member of the team ;)
<jeromeg> what does PAPT and DPMT mean ?
 * ScottK hands jeromeg https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam
<cody-somerville> I'm a member of PAPT too :) \o/
<pochu> :)
<pochu> ScottK: round 2, http://pastebin.org/30215
 * jeromeg thanks ScottK 
<ScottK> pochu: You teach clamav to have two different versions on the signatures database so libclamav3 and libclamav4 can be co-installed and I'll be glad to go look at PAPT bugs.
<jeromeg> ScottK: thank you for the xpad ack
<pochu> ScottK: thanks, but I already went over PAPT RC bugs :)
<ScottK> jeromeg: No problem.  Thanks for contributing.
<pochu> and I have no idea how clamav works...
<jeromeg> ScottK: I found a blog post of Philip Newborough
<jeromeg> about this
<jeromeg> so I just wanted to get this fixed :)
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> pochu: I'd make your new example the 2nd one, but otherwise I think it looks good.
<pochu> ScottK: I added it first on purpose as it's simpler and it will be updated with dpatch
<pochu> so I think people should use that one instead of the other
<ScottK> Your call.  Not that I disagree, but I think getting the patch accepted will be easier with it 2nd.
<pochu> ScottK: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=476457
<ubotu> Debian bug 476457 in dpatch "Improve dpatch(1) example of modifying debian/rules" [Minor,Open]
<ScottK> pochu: Great.  Thanks.  If it's still not it when Intrepid starts, it might be good to add it to Ubuntu.
<Adri2000> ScottK: in bug #216698, afaiuc you acked the debian version. so my guess is that the package should be synced. but are syncs still possible at this point?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216698 in xpad "xpad 100% CPU bug" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216698
<ScottK> Adri2000: I acked an upload to fix the bug.  Sync's are still possible, AFAIK.
<Adri2000> I thought motu-release is supposed to ack diffs to be uploaded
<ScottK> That's the sponsor's job.
 * norsetto wonders who acked the latest envyNG upload
<slangasek> norsetto: TheMuso
<ScottK> norsetto: Not me.
<DktrKranz> ScottK, firebird bug adjusted (sorry for the loooooong delay)
<ScottK> No problem.  Go ahead then.
<DktrKranz> thanks
<ScottK> norsetto: How many days did envyNG make it without a new upload?
<norsetto> scottk: oh well, alberto is doing his best, thats what it counts
<ScottK> norsetto: I still don't think the package has the kind of history of stability that we'd want for an LTS release.  I also don't like the idea of a package that will install whatever he feels like uploading to his PPA.
<ScottK> But the decision is made.
<laga> tut es nicht
<laga> wunderbar
<laga> sorry.
<norsetto> scottk: yes
<ScottK> That completely leaves aside the question of encouraging the least open source friendly video manufacturer that there's no need to change their ways.
<ScottK> Another reason I don't like it.
<ScottK> pochu: Would you have time to look into uploading Bug #206958?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 206958 in mnemosyne "mnemosyne crashed with AttributeError in <module>()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206958
<soren> REVU is running on a Sparc machine, is that correct?
<mok0> soren: yes
<soren> mok0: Thanks.
<mok0> soren: np :-)
* sistpoty changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | We're in FinalFreeze, see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-April/000418.html and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze | please check rc bug fixes in debian not having entered ubuntu yet: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/
<sistpoty> heh, REVU up again :)
<TheMuso> slangasek: You pinged me earlier?
<slangasek> TheMuso: no, I pointed norsetto at you :)
<ScottK> TheMuso: We were wondering who ack'ed the envy upload and rehashing how thrilled some of us are to have it in the archive.
<norsetto> sistpoty: I think you will find bug 202869 interesting
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202869 in blas "ICAMAX/IZAMAX tests" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202869
<sistpoty> norsetto: so that's the needle in the haystack I was trying to find :)
<mok0> I've never looked at the atlas packaging myself, but I'm curious to know how it's built. IIRC, the whole idea with atlas is that it will be optimized for the specific machine it is being built on
<norsetto> sistpoty: I have also seen that doko made some changes to the debian package
<sistpoty> well, I've looked at atlas packaging quite a while, and I still have no clue how it actually is built *g*
<mok0> sistpoty: :-D
 * norsetto doesn't even dare to look ....
<sistpoty> norsetto: if we could get the blas change in and then the atlas change for hardy, that would be optimal imho... others than that, I guess we should try to get it into hardy via SRUs
<norsetto> sistpoty: what blas change?
<DktrKranz> motu-release guys, python-omniorb2 needs a rebuild for libomniorb transition, but it FTBFS due to API changes in omniorb (see debian 453164). New upstream in debian fixed it, but it's rewritten from scratch, is it worth a FFe so late in the game?
<ubotu> Debian bug 453164 in python-omniorb2 "python-omniorb2: FTBFS: ../../modules/pyObjectRef.cc:434: error: no matching function for call to 'omniIOR::omniIOR(const char*&, const _CORBA_Octet*, int)'" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/453164
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Does the current package work at all?
<DktrKranz> ScottK, it builds and runs, I'm not one of its users to see if it works as expected, though
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Why do you think it needs a rebuild?
<DktrKranz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/libomniorb4c2
<ScottK> Ah.  So works until the old binary gets tossed.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I'd say go for it, but get another ack first.
<DktrKranz> if you want, I can gather all informations needed, but it's really a rewrite (from C to C++, IIRC)
<DktrKranz> so, it changes almost everything
<mok0> sistpoty: your mail arrived!
<sistpoty> :)
<RainCT> good night
<sebner> gn8 folks
<norsetto> DktrKranz: do you know what actually this is?
<mlind> any universe sponsors around?
<DktrKranz> norsetto, TBH no, it's on my radar due to my desire to clean off NBS before release day
 * sistpoty needs to go to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<norsetto> DktrKranz: so this will be an update to the 4.1 series?
<DktrKranz> 3.2, actually
<ScottK> mlind: What are you after?
<norsetto> DktrKranz: if the current package is unusable, I'd say go for it, it can't get worse, just check that the transition is not broken
<DktrKranz> norsetto, I'll do some more tests, but at least transition is safe
<mlind> ScottK: asac asked me to find a motu to sponsor the fix in bug #202343 yesterday in #ubuntu-mozillateam
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202343 in opensc "mozilla-opensc firefox plugin not visible in FF3 (bad install directory)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202343
<jdahlin> bzr has the following version number: 1.4rc1-1~bazaar1~hardy1
<jdahlin> how can I tell that to debchange if I want to use something similar?
<norsetto> bug 218245: yes, Firefox is evil ....
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218245 in firefox "Recommends Proprietary Software" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218245
<ScottK> mlind: I'm about out of time now.  If you don't find a sponsor in the next ~4 hours.  Ping me again.
<mlind> ScottK: I'm about to head to bed myself. I'll check it tomorrow, if it's still fix committed, I'll ping you or asac.
<norsetto> jdahlin: uh?
<lifeless> jdahlin: what do you mean?
<jdahlin> norsetto: I want to include a custom part of the version number (eg, flu, or fluendo) and one for the dist (gutsy, hardy etc)
<asac> mlind: if its not uploaded tomorrow morning i can do that
<jdahlin> eg 0.5.1.1-0~flu1~hardy1 I guess?
<asac> mlind: i have almost managed to reduce my overload to a level that i can bear ;)
<asac> mlind: night!
<mlind> asac: heh, thanks!
<norsetto> jdahlin: yes, and?
<lifeless> jdahlin: the ~hardy etc are a bit bong; its an attempt to deal with different version namespaces by the bzr ppa folk
<lifeless> jdahlin: ~ sorts before other chars in dpkg
<jdahlin> norsetto: debchange --distributor flu1~hardy1 is not quite working
<lifeless> jdahlin: we don't set --distributor
<lifeless> jdahlin: we just set the version
<ScottK> jdahlin: The easiest way to do it is just edit debian/changelog to have the version you want.
<norsetto> jdahlin: I guess what you are looking for is -v
<jdahlin> I really like dch -i though
<norsetto> jdahlin: like it or not thats what you should use to specify the version number explicitely ....
<seb128> hi
<norsetto> hi seb128
<seb128> do I need to open a bug etc if I want to update gnome-user-share in universe? ;-)
<norsetto> seb128: aren't you the delegate for gnome FFe !?
<seb128> right, that's why I'm asking
<seb128> I'm not sure if that's good taste to accept my own exceptions requests ;-)
<ScottK> seb128: I do it all the time.  If we delegated to you, we figure you know what you're doing.
<ScottK> Go for it.
<seb128> ok, thanks
<norsetto> allright, I'm off to bed
<mbt> The REAL truth about the REAL ID Act <http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/ILikeEllipses/~3/271188530/>
<mbt> Crap, sorry, wrong window
<kees> can someone from motu-release review (and hopefully ACK) bug 218417 when you get a chance?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218417 in hardening-wrapper "Please sync hardening-wrapper 1.11 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218417
<azeem> slangasek: if they do, then cool; I probably didn't try the old ones with the new plugins
<slangasek> :)
<pochu> ScottK: I'm looking at it
<ScottK> pochu: Thanks.
<ScottK> kees: Ack'ed
<kees> ScottK: thanks
<soren> Aw... Isn't that nice. There's a little old lady who on her death bed wants to donate six and half million pounds to charity through ubuntu-motu.
<soren> Sounds plausible enough to me?
<ScottK> Heh.
<ScottK> asac: Are you going to update firefox to Firefox 2.0.0.14 before release?
<Fujitsu> I hope so.
<asac> ScottK: when was it officially released?
<ScottK> asac: I just got a release announcement in the mail.
<asac> sorry, but i know that it should have happened by now, but i haven't seen any announcement
<asac> ok ... so right now ;)
<asac> thanks
<asac> ScottK: its not anywhere right now
<asac> mozilla.com, mozilla.org, mozillazine.org
<asac> ScottK: maybe thats another prenotice?
<ScottK> asac: Subject is "Firefox 2.0.0.14 available for download"
<ScottK> asac: http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.announce/browse_thread/thread/e3c471743c98fe5f#
<ScottK> I don't think that's a pre-notice.
<asac> ScottK: i should rework my mail setup ;) ... i get all the prenotices, but not the final announcement. fun :-D
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-17
<asac> ScottK: anyway, i wanted to do the update tomorrow
<ScottK> asac: FIne with me, just wanted to make sure it wasn't missed.
<asac> yep. just wanted to answer your initial question: yes, before release.
<ScottK> Great.
<pochu> ScottK: uploaded
<ScottK> pochu: THanks.
<freakabcd> hi all
<freakabcd> could someone tell me why the install/live dvd is only 3.7GiB ? theres 700MiB of space left which can be used to put more useful software
<Flannel> freakabcd: Looking at older versions, its fluxuated up to 4.2GiB, so I imagine at some point a standard set of packages were chosen, and they want to be consistent (so that you can upgrade a DVD release completely with a DVD)
<freakabcd> bah..
<freakabcd> not a good enough reason for leave out 700 megs of space
<Flannel> well, in 7.10 its only 500
<freakabcd> really, some stuff from universe or multiverse could be included
<Flannel> No, because its not officially supported
<freakabcd> still quite a bit of space
<freakabcd> oh man, this officially supported thing kinda gets me going crazy sometimes.
<freakabcd> i guess someone `unofficially' will need to add packages and make a dvd that eats up all the space :(
<Flannel> This theory (not the universe bit) is just that.  And only based off of the DVD sizes for the releases.
<Flannel> So, I encourage you to still find someone who actually knows, as I'm curious
<freakabcd> i'm typing the bug report
<freakabcd> is inkscape in main?
<freakabcd> or universe?
<StevenK> % rmadison -u ubuntu -s hardy inkscape
<StevenK>   inkscape | 0.46-0ubuntu2 |         hardy | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
<StevenK> Main
<freakabcd> ok, why not give blender in main too then?
<freakabcd> since its a very small package compared to inkscape and is a package that does 3d
<freakabcd> i'm not saying blender should be included, just saying that there could be more packages in the dvd
<Flannel> freakabcd: inkscape is installed by default, so it has to be main.
<Flannel> Er, hmm, maybe its not.  I suppose its been a while since Ive had a default install.
<freakabcd> Flannel, look above at what StevenK said^^ inkscape is in main
<Flannel> freakabcd: right, but that doesnt mean its installed by default (it's not), but if it were, main is necessary.
<freakabcd> umm.. wait a moment.
<Flannel> Its not even on the alt CD
<freakabcd> is all of main on the dvd?
<freakabcd> or even most of it?
<Flannel> oh, I'm looking at the desktop .list file, of course its not
<Flannel> inkscape isn't even on the alternate CD
<freakabcd> well, maybe including inkscape on the dvd is something that could be done.
<freakabcd> was a simple example: we have gimp on the dvd. that does image manipulation. we could include inkscape(if it isn;t already) which does vectors. and possibly blender which does 3d
<Flannel> Alt CD != DVD.  Inkscape is on the DVD.  Blender isn't.  But blender is in universe, so that's one reason why not.
<freakabcd> now the major graphics suites are all on the dvd
<freakabcd> blender is gpl, no?
<Flannel> freakabcd: Which is why its in universe, not multiverse
<freakabcd> i'm not going to stress myself as to why blender is not included, but i want more packages included in the dvd
<freakabcd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/218505
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218505 in ubuntu "install/live DVD is *not* full" [Undecided,New]
<dholbach> good morning
<emgent> morning
<cmat> hello
<gpocentek> dholbach: my membership in ubuntu-dev is about to expire, can you renew it or should I done something else?
<dholbach> gpocentek: let it expire - as long as you're in motu and/or ubuntu-core-dev all is good
<dholbach> gpocentek: in the end we want ubuntu-dev just to contain those two teams
<gpocentek> ok
 * dholbach hugs gpocentek
<gpocentek> ubuntu-motu is expiring too, but not core-dev
<dholbach> gpocentek: I think you should be able to renew your membership in motu
<gpocentek> ah right
<gpocentek> I only read the ubuntu-dev mail :)
<gpocentek> thanks
<dholbach> gpocentek: how are you doing otherwise? how is life in france?
<gpocentek> dholbach: all good, just a little tired but hollidays are approaching ;)
<dholbach> gpocentek: nice - what are you going to do in the holidays?
<gpocentek> dholbach: near Bergerac in the south of France, far from Paris, internet and computers
<dholbach> nice... enjoy your holidays! :)
<gpocentek> thanks :)
<Fujitsu> \sh: LIES! Our top priority *must* be importing new crack!!11ONE
<Fujitsu> We like drive-by uploads.
<\sh> Fujitsu, ok
<\sh> Fujitsu, do you want me to upload the whole cpan archive minus the packages already in debian/ubuntu? ,-)
<Fujitsu> \sh: Yes please.
<Amaranth> \sh: All gems too
<Fujitsu> And the bits of PyPI that aren't already.
<Fujitsu> Especially the dead stuff.
<coolbhavi>  how to sync a package into ubuntu? and upload it to my PPA? Please anyone help....
<\sh> Fujitsu, ok..starting now ,-)
<coolbhavi> \sh : From where should we run the MoM tool? I m in the src directory of extracted tarball please help
<james_w> coolbhavi: MoM can be accessed at merges.ubuntu.com, there is no need to run it locally.
<coolbhavi> james_w thanks I m trying to merge few debian packages to ubuntu.. How to use MoM to achieve that..? Please help because I am keen to learn packaging..
<james_w> coolbhavi: first, we're not in merging time at the moment, so you won't really be able to get any uploaded.
<james_w> coolbhavi: it would be fantastic if you could help out with this list: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/
<james_w> some of the fixes might require a merge, but they might need something else
 * coolbhavi clicks
<james_w> I'd be happy to talk you through merging at a later date, but with one week to go until hardy is released I hope you can understand that we want to focus our time there.
<james_w> and any help you can give to make hardy a great release will be hugely appreciated
<coolbhavi> OK.... Sorry for asking wrong question at the wrong time... Once 8.10 starts I will be into it both hands and ask you guys a lot of questions... I m interested in motu ing now... And I m trying to arrange a release party at my college here in bangalore... james_w thanks again
<james_w> coolbhavi: a release party would be cool, I'd like to join you there.
<pochu> coolbhavi: there will be a merge session in OpenWeek by nxvl, have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<james_w> and there's no need to apologise, there will be loads of merges to do starting in may/june
<coolbhavi> :) Thanks guys...... I have assigned myself a bug to upgrade jtr but it wasnt accepted... So Will be up with it during next month again...
<coolbhavi> pochu : thanks for the info.... In which channel its going to be held?
<james_w> coolbhavi: #ubuntu-classroom
<james_w> there will be announcements about open week soo
<james_w> soon, sorry
<coolbhavi> james_w thanks
<Hub441> hi!
<Hub441> which version should i put into the changelog of $myprog 1.0.0 ? atm there is no package for debian and ubuntu
<mok0> Hub441: 1.0.0-0ubuntu1
<james_w> Hub441: if it is targeted for Debian then 1.0.0-1
<Hub441> it's a kde based programm so it will be limited to the current ubuntu-version? => 1.0.0-0ubuntu1
<mok0> Hub441: what do you mean "bound"?
<mok0> Hub441: what do you mean "limited", sorry
<Hub441> mok0: i won't be able to use the same binary package on gutsy and the current debian (sid?) ?
<mok0> Hub441: right, but it can be compiled on those systems
<Hub441> mok0: so ther must be two different binary packages, right?
<mok0> Hub441: ... provided that the same development environment exists, which is not true for kde4
<mok0> Hub441: that's right, they must go in separate repositories
<Hub441> ok but i could use the same dsc files? or at least the files in $myprog-src/debian/ ?
<mok0> Hub441: ... of course you can create a statically linked binary which will run everywhere, but hardly no one does that
<mok0> Hub441: most apps make use of versioned shared libraries, which is why you need to compile a special binary for every distro
<Hub441> hmm so do i have to rename the src-file and directory too? myprog_1.0.0-0ubuntu1.tar.gz?
<mok0> Hub441: no
<james_w> Hub441: use myprog_1.0.0-1 and compile the source package in both environments to get two different binary packages.
<mok0> Hub441: why don't you start with one machine, and then it will become clear to you
<Hub441> at the moment, i don't inted to cover more than one distro since i don't have any other dev-setup (not even a VM) ;)
<mok0> Hub441: no problem you can set up a virtual building system in 5 minutes
<Hub441> just wanted to be sure to do everything right
<mok0> Hub441: you were right to ask :-)
<Hub441> mok0: dial-up user: s/minutes/hours/
<mok0> Hub441: yikes
 * mok0 wondes if you can create a pbuilder based on an installation CD
<\sh> hmmm...what happend to the qt frontend of bacula-client?
<\sh> ah there
<Hub441> just tried to run "sudo pbuilder build kradview_1.0.0-0ubuntu1.dsc" but it's missing base.tgz so i did a "sudo pbuild create" but this one tells me my distribution is hardy o_O
<Hub441> and i'm sure i'm running gutsy
<james_w> there's a --distribution switch
<james_w> you may also find pbuilder-dist in the ubuntu-dev-tools package useful.
<mok0> Hub441: base.tgz is just a tar-ball containing a minimal system. You can have a hardy one, a gutsy one, a sid one, but you need to give them different names. That's where pbuilder-dist comes in handy
<Hub441> indeed, how much do i have to download? actually there is no progressbar (dial-up...)
<mlind> Hub441: are you using pbuilder from gutsy-backports?
<Hub441> mlind: yes
<mlind> Hub441: it seems that pbuilderrc in gutsy-backports has DISTRIBUTION=hardy :/
<mlind> Hub441: you'll need to change it from /etc/pbuilderrc or from your local ~/.pbuilderrc
<mlind> jdong: ^^
<Hub441> mlind: you're right! is it sufficient to have that single line in .pbuilderrc?
<pochu> that's probably intended
<pochu> Hub441: do you want it for a personal backport or for getting it in the archive at some point?
<pochu> if the latter, you want to build it with the development release
<mlind> pochu: you mean gutsy-backports having DISTRIBUTION=hardy ?
<Hub441> pochu: what? the package i'm working on? just want to figure out how to build debian/ubuntu packages.
<mlind> Hub441: yes, placing DISTRIBUTION=gutsy in ~/.pbuilderrc overrides the default value. (unless it's a version which is affected by bug which prevents sourcing ~/.pbuilderrc)
<Hub441> I'll work on that later since the downloads for base.tgz don't seem to be dial-up conform ;)
<pochu> mlind: yes.
<pochu> mlind: so that people running the latest stable can continue with development (we also backport lintian and other stuff for the same reason)
<pochu> and debootstrap...
<mlind> pochu: I'm not sure if I understood correctly, but I don't mean distribution in debian/control
<mlind> pochu: but in /etc/pbuilderrc
<pochu> mlind: I know
<pochu> (and distribution in debian/changelog will have gutsy-backports (: )
<mlind> pochu: well doesn't make sense to me if I want to get the lastest pbuilder from gutsy-backports and suddenly it wants to build packages for wrong distribution.
<pochu> mlind: why would you want to use pbuilder from gutsy-backports and not from gutsy?
<mlind> pochu: backports usually have newer stuff, bugs fixed etc. ?
<pochu> bug fixes should go to -updates. and I don't think you should use development tools from -backports unless you are going to develop for the development version...
<pochu> but I may be wrong... so let's jdong answer you :)
<pochu> also, I don't think people should enable -backports and install everything from there, but rather only install what they really want, but that may be just me
<bigon> could a motu-release manager have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-python/+bug/218606
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218606 in telepathy-python "Crasher (prevents sugar from running)" [Medium,New]
<mlind> pochu: I bet I'm just confusing things :)
<jdahlin_> Is there a tutorial available somewhere on how to setup an automated pbuilder which will trigger a build as soon as I do an upload?
<Hobbsee>  ...surely that's backwards.
<\sh> jdahlin_, dinstall is what you want (or mini-dinstall)
<\sh> jdahlin_, but locally, you don't need any upload actually...
<jdahlin_> \sh: I'm planning to setup a couple of vms for each distribution I support
<jdahlin_> upload in the dput sense, could be a local copy, ftp or whatever
<\sh> jdahlin_, well, i wrote a simple script which runs in an endless loop and checks whenever a source package was uploaded via ftp/webdav in a directory and then called sbuild
<jdahlin_> \sh: sounds more like what I'd need, do you have that script available somewhere?
<\sh> jdahlin_, undocumented sure..it consists actually of one shell script and one perl script
<\sh> jdahlin_, you can get it from http://archive.linux-server.org/build/ and change it or improve it :)
<jdahlin_> \sh: thanks
 * Hobbsee bashes ScottK with the cluebat.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i'd say "here's your sign" on the mail too, but i'm unsure if you would get the reference.
<\sh> we should switch to scrum management
<Hobbsee> then again, another major part of the problem is if our new contributors are going away, are our regulars likely to do so as well, but stay for a longer timeframe?
<Hobbsee> those who aren't paid to continue with it, at least.
<Hobbsee> and how do we then cope with all the packages that are in ubuntu, not in debian, and very few people who are likely interested in them, who aren't being paid to work on other sections
<cody-somerville> Hobbsee, Ahh... you do have a way with words, eh? :P
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: hmm?
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: i work in customer service.  of course i do.
 * cody-somerville just read your e-mail re: Scott.
<Hobbsee> haha :)
<Hobbsee> there's a fine line between what can be said in an email which will be archived forever, and what i'd *like* to say.
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: that's the toned down, third version email.
 * cody-somerville fears receiving a private e-mail from Hobbsee when she is angry.
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: i don't write mails when angry.
<cody-somerville> :)
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: actually, as a rule, i don't tend to *get* angry.
<cody-somerville> s/angry/<insert appropriate word here>
<Hobbsee> annoyed, yes.  angry?  no.
<Hobbsee> "tell it like it is", yes, definetly
<Hobbsee> which people seem to like mistaking for anger.
<elmargol> :/ somehow I can not change the MIRROR for my pbuilder :(
<Hobbsee> elmargol: how are you trying to change it?  in the config file?
<Hobbsee> elmargol: did you run pbuilder-update --override-config ?
<broonie> elmargol: Changes in pbuilderrc won't affect currently extant chroots by default
<elmargol> thx i try the override thing
<Hobbsee> elmargol: you need to do that for any config changes in your pbuilderrc, fyi
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ping?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: pong
<elmargol> Hobbsee, thx this helps
<elmargol> broonie, thank you too
<elmargol> FAX is a pain in the ass :(
<elmargol> why do people use this crap? :(
<jdahlin_> I can't really get mini-dinstall --batch to work, it complains about override entry's (both source & binary)
<jdahlin_> Is there anything obvious that I'm missing?
<azeem> jdahlin_: any reason you use mini-dinstall?
<azeem> I'm not sure it's really maintained, mabye somebody picked it up though
<jdahlin_> azeem: is there anything I should use instead of that?
<jdahlin_> I'm mostly following this tutorial here; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<jdahlin_> that error doesn't seem to be printed by mini-dinstall itself
<azeem> jdahlin_: hrm, I think mini-dinstall is overblown just for local packages in pbuilder
<azeem> unless you need it all the time, for lots of packages
<azeem> just a local directory and dpkg-scanpackages should be fine, but I don't use pbuilder myself
<\sh> azeem, the idea is, upload a source package to dir and start a pbuilder to build the source package...
<azeem> oh
<azeem> \sh: well, it's under the "Building With Local Packages" paragraph
<\sh> azeem, yes...but it means: upload binary packages to use as local package repository for building other packages
<\sh> what jdahlin_ wants is a poor men's buildserver
<azeem> I'm not sure what jdahlin_ wants
<jdahlin_> yes, a local, simple buildserver
<jdahlin_> I'd happily use launchpad's ppa if I could
<\sh> jdahlin_, check my scripts and improve them..it's the easiest way to achieve your goal
<\sh> jdahlin_, shell script just checks for .dsc files, and creates a .lock file for that...it pushes then the .dsc file to the perl script and this perl script actually needs to parse the .dsc file , if all necessary files are there, then start pbuilder/sbuild to build those packages
<jdahlin_> \sh: why sbuild instead of pbuilder btw?
<\sh> jdahlin_, well, because sbuild is that what the debian/ubuntu buildds are using
<jdahlin_> \sh: I have no real need to have an identical environment right now, pbuilder seemed easier to setup
<\sh> jdahlin_, change sbuild to pbuilder
<\sh> jdahlin_, you just need to sudo pbuilder build <.dsc filename>
<\sh> instead of sbuild (sbuild doesn't need sudo root rights)
<\sh> jdahlin_, take care, that sudo pbuilder doesn't ask for a password actually...
<\sh> ajmitch, dude, where is best to work in NZ for a german IT pro?
<RainCT> \sh: btw, nice mail (that one about the priorities) :)
<\sh> RainCT, it was just to clean up my head...
<emgent> \sh: heya :)
<\sh> actually, during the last hour, I watched Ken Schwab @Google HQ talking about SCRUM Management...that was quite nice, and gave me some ideas
<\sh> hey emgent
<AstralJava> \sh: That sounds interesting, any leftovers? ie. anything saved of it?
<\sh> AstralJava, http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7230144396191025011
<AstralJava> Cheers.
<\sh> AstralJava, a little bit of advice, download the video in mp4 format...much better quality and more reliable then watching the flv stream
<\sh> Ken Schwaber it's his name actually
<\sh> damn typing errors
<AstralJava> \sh: Thanks for the tip.
<\sh> AstralJava, very informative...actually we are working with scrum management right now in our company here...and the results are amazing...much better then in other companies I worked before
<AstralJava> Yeah my company utilizes scrum a lot too, it's why I want to understand more of it.
<\sh> AstralJava, I think the central statement of Ken about scrum is : "SCRUM works with idiots..idiots don't know anything...and they are producing crap, but with scrum, they are producing high quality crap in less time, which is good" ... a good laugh :)
<AstralJava> Bwahaha!
<Hobbsee> james_w: shot down your idea too, sorry.
<Hobbsee> here's your beverage of choice.  please drink it, and come up with a better idea.
<Hobbsee> :)
<james_w> Hobbsee: I don't support the idea
<Hobbsee> james_w: right.  So i just shot down the perceived idea, that you don't support, more.
<james_w> :-) thanks
<Hobbsee> but you can have a large drink anyway.  *hands it over*
<james_w> thanks
<\sh> Hobbsee, revu.tauware.de -> redirect to: http://build.opensuse.org/ ? ;)
<Hobbsee> \sh: hahaha
<Hobbsee> \sh: now, i've not seen anyone propose that yet.
<Hobbsee> \sh: but i hear that does do debian packages
<\sh> Hobbsee, of course .. they produce from one spec file, one tar.gz debian dir and one source file at least a couple of packages for different rpm distros and debian packages for debian and ubuntu ;-)
<\sh> depends what they are supporting nowadays...
<Hobbsee> yeah, great.
<Hobbsee> that's *just* what we want in ubuntu
<\sh> Hobbsee, -EDONTWORKLIKETHATERROR...the buildservice of opensuse is opensource
<Hobbsee> haha
<\sh> Hobbsee, and funny that it's a mixture of RoR + perl (the dependency calculator for rpm packages and deb packages...) + python
<Hobbsee> eww
<\sh> Hobbsee, psst..I'm telling you a secret: they are calculating the binary .deb deps with a patched rpm software ;)
<Hobbsee> classy
<\sh> creating apt and yum and whathaveyou package repositories on the fly...
 * Yagisan watches debtorrent eat up 500MB of ram and wonders if installing it was such as good idea
<megabyte405> I used dpatch-edit-patch to create a dpatch, which worked, and so did a dpkg-buildpackage, but now trying to do a dpkg-buildpackage -S it says failed when de-applying.  Any ideas on where to look for the problem?
<james_w> megabyte405: what was the failure?
<megabyte405> james_w: It just says failed - I tried a couple things to try to get an actual message, but all I have is "failed" on the patch i just added
<megabyte405> $ dpatch deapply-all
<megabyte405> reverting patch 50_backport_svn from ./ ... failed.
<RainCT> jdong: ping. I've the deluge-torrent update ready (yesterday I didn't finish as I had to download the build dependencies xD).
<jdong> RainCT: was there anything eventful involved other than a uupdate?
<jdong> RainCT: if you feel that no packaging changes were intrusive you have my go-ahead :)
<RainCT> jdong: it has no watch file / get-orig-source rule, but I just took the source tarball from upstream's website and it worked fine without changes. I slightly modified the .desktop file (it's in debian/), but that doesn't count as intrusive, or?
<jdong> RainCT: that sounds reasonable to me.
<RainCT> jdong: (that's the changelog: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63552/plain/)
<jdong> RainCT: looks good to me
<]-[afranckeR> can i speak spanish?
<RainCT> ]-[afranckeR: the channel is English only, but if there's some word you don't know I can translate it
<]-[afranckeR> :(
<]-[afranckeR> ok
<]-[afranckeR> sorry my english
<RainCT> jdong: cool, can you ack the bug report pls?
<RainCT> bug 218182
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218182 in deluge-torrent "deluge-torrent: new upstream version 0.5.8.9" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218182
<Kl4m> Still nagios2 in hardy :( I guess a backport will be out. Nagios 3 was released April 1st
<zul> Kl4m: eventually maybe..
<zul> Kl4m:  if it hits ibex then it can probbaly be requested
<jdong> RainCT: commented
<RainCT> ok, uploading :)
<RainCT> btw, in which package are the tty's?
<cmat> Hello
<slytherin> cmat: hello
<cmat> I'm interested in packaging some software, is this to correct place to ask?
<slytherin> cmat: Check the 'Contributing' link in channel topic
<cmat> Thank you.
<DktrKranz> geser, I was looking at python-omniorb2, have you any clue about the remaining changes ("Build for current Python version only") given that there's a solution for debian 400490?
<ubotu> Debian bug 400490 in python-omniorb2 "python-omniorb2: FTBFS: file movelist missing" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/400490
<DktrKranz> I don't know if it's related, though.
<awmcclain> If I'm testing a package, there's no easy way to test apt-get using a local file, is there?
<cmat> Is checkinstall a good tool for creating *.edb packages?
<jeromeg> cmat: no
<jeromeg> cmat: it's a "good" tool for testing quickly an application
<jeromeg> cmat: but it creates packages that suck
<geser> DktrKranz: I remember the package but I don't remember anymore the reason behind this change
<geser> DktrKranz: you might better ask doko about it as he introduced this change
<geser> DktrKranz: looking at the PTS for python-omniorb2 I see it got removed from unstable and testing
<cmat> Thank you for the information. I'll stick with the guide.
<geser> ah, the source package name changed
<DktrKranz> geser, thanks. I'll ask him.
<zorglu_> i got a weirdo question. i got a .deb working on all debian based, i would like to port it for .rpm. i got the .rpm built but seek answer for fedora specific questions. like where is the /usr/share/autostart in fc, or update.rc etc... anybody knows a channel similar to #ubuntu-motu but for fedora ?
<jdahlin_> zorglu_: you'd probably better of asking that kind of question on #fedora-devel
<zorglu_> jdahlin_: i tried but they just ignored me :) i had to try here
<jdong> lol
<zorglu_> jdahlin_: too bad. thanks :)
<jdong> I think our guesses on how rpm works are like checkinstall-ish or dh_make && debuild ;-)
<jdong> update-rc.d should be "chkconfig" if it hasn't changed since the 90's
<jdong> (cough)
<emgent> heya
<ScottK> Hobbsee: No, I wouldn't have gotten the reference.  I agree having to upload a binary is no guarantee of much of anything, but it would at least let us run lintian on the binary too and let us know it built somehow, somewhere.  All that's a step up from where we are now.
<ScottK> Personally I'm a lot less worried about making it easier for contributors than I am conserving reviewer time and interest.
<ScottK> norsetto: Would you please give me an ack to upload Bug #218893 after I get done testing?  It's got one very small feature that will actually help supportability.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218893 in dkim-milter "New upstream release (almost all bug fixes) - dkim-milter" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218893
<norsetto> scottk: I thought you acked your own uploads?
<ScottK> FFe needs 2
<norsetto> scottk: the AllowSHA1Only is also a new feature I guess
<ScottK> norsetto: Perhaps.  I think of it as a bug it didn't do that all along.
<ScottK> norsetto: I'm thinking produces signatures that can't be decrypted is a bug.
<ScottK> If you want me to list that as an additional feature, I will.
<norsetto> scottk: looks good to me, I trust you know it better than me anyhow
<ScottK> Thanks.  Please mark an ack in the bug if you haven't.
<norsetto> scottk: done
<ScottK> Thanks again.
<norsetto> scottk: my pleasure
<pochu> anyone with amd64 and epiphany out there could see if `LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9b5 epiphany` makes ephy segfault?
<albert23> pochu: if you read the logs: Yes, epiphany crashed on amd64
<norsetto> night folks
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-18
<bbyever> hi
<bbyever> how do i submit a patch to debian?
<bbyever> how do i submit a patch to debian?
<Caesar> Hi, I've just provided a fix for #218964, could someone possibly sponsor it for me?
<emgent> Bug #218964
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218964 in xfdesktop4 "Installing xfdesktop4 changes the GDM theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218964
<emgent> no0ticoglione: we know
<emgent> Caesar: try to subscribe cody sommerville
<bbyever> if im reporting a bug with a patch, should i attach the patch to the email?
<RAOF> bbyever: Reporting to Debian?  Yes.  Reporting to Launchpad, probably.
<bbyever> RAOF: reporting to debian
<bbyever> RAOF: what should i put on the user tag?
<RAOF> I don't know offhand.  I always refer to the BTS howto page
<RAOF> http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<bbyever> it just says username....
<RAOF> It's not _necessary_ to have usertags.  There is an Ubuntu wikipage I think you're thinking of, though...
<bbyever> yeah i saw the wiki page
<RAOF> We're talking about this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/ReportingToDebian?highlight=%28debian%29 right?
<RAOF> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debian/Usertagging page is linked from it, and contains examples if you want to do it manually.
<bbyever> yes
<bbyever> i was just wondering what to put as User:
<RAOF> It says what to put as user there :)
<RAOF> User: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<bbyever> oh, i thought it was just an example...
<RAOF> Nope; that's the correct user (it says so at the top of the page) :)
<bbyever> damn...
<bbyever> uhhh
<bbyever> i've sent the email with a diferent user....
<bbyever> uhhh
<bbyever> mm
<bbyever> what should i do now?
<RAOF> Eh; it doesn't matter too much.  You can probably do something like "bts user ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com . usertag 123456 + origin-ubuntu hardy" to add the right tags.
<RAOF> (123456 would be the debian bug #)
<bbyever> ok
<bbyever> do i sent that as a mail or in the terminal?
<RAOF> That would be using the 'bts' script.  You could also send it as a mail.  (I'm just reading this from the above linked wiki page :))
<bbyever> haha ok thanks :)
<bbyever> RAOF: i couldnt change it... but if it not so important i guess it not so bad. at least now i know...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> heya bddebian.
<ScottK> Looks pretty quiet.
<emgent> i go to sleep
<emgent> night all
<bddebian> Heya ScottK, aye
<bddebian> Gnight emgent
<awmcclain> I need to change my distribution from "unstable" to what? Gutsy? Hardy? in order to upload to PPA?
<TheMuso> awmcclain: Depends on what distribution you want it to be built and installable against.
<awmcclain> TheMuso: Is there a wiki page somewhere talking about the polishing steps for ubuntu?
<awmcclain> Also, there aren't any ubuntu-specific conventions on packages compared to debian, correct?
<TheMuso> awmcclain: Polishing? Have you checked out the MOTU pages?
<TheMuso> awmcclain: Not as far as I know of.
<TheMuso> awmcclain: Some packages need Ubuntu-specific changes, however.
<awmcclain> TheMuso: Right. I'm re-packaging a lot of perl and perl-based modules, so I haven't run into that.
<TheMuso> Right.
<awmcclain> TheMuso: I have checked the MOTU pages; Right now this is just going in my PPA
<TheMuso> Ok.
<awmcclain> Basically, I'm looking for docs explaining the changes to "distribution" and any other ubuntu-specific changes i'd need to make to the package contents.
<ScottK> awmcclain: For PPA specific help, you can try #launchpad.
<awmcclain> ScottK: I did. It's dead.
<awmcclain> :(
<ScottK> awmcclain: OK.  PPA isn't really an Ubuntu thing, it's a Launchpad thing, so although you may get some help here, it's not really the right place.
<awmcclain> ScottK: Ah, sorry. I was really just looking for a place for "making-debian-package-kosher-for-ubuntu" questions.
<awmcclain> I very much appreciate all MOTU's help.
<ScottK> OK.  That we can help with.
<ScottK> For Perl stuff all you should have to do is give it an appropriate revision number and change the distro.
<awmcclain> Well, so in uploading to an unnamed apt-repository that rhymes with raunchrad, I found that my templates generated by some of the debhelper scripts, namely "Distribution: unstable". I was just wondering if there were any other things I should watch out for. And what is the correct syntax for distro?
<awmcclain> s/scripts/ scripts didn't work
<ScottK> Normally for an Ubuntu upload that's unique, we append ubuntu1 to the debian revision, so 0.93-1 would be updated to 0.93-1ubuntu1.  If the upstream version isn't in Debian yet, then it's a 0, e.g. 0.94-0ubuntu1.
<ScottK> For a backport, we add ~release so that it has a lower revision number and upgrades work.  e.g. 0.94-0ubuntu1~gutsy.
<ScottK> err 0.94-0ubuntu1~gutsy1
<ScottK> Then I tack a ~ppa1 on the end of that so that if it makes it into the official repo, then the official revision number is higher.
<ScottK> That's how I do it.
<ScottK> awmcclain: ^^
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clamav/+archive shows you a number of examples.
<awmcclain> And if there aren't any ubuntu-specific changes, you don't add the -ubuntuX... i think i remember reading that.
<awmcclain> If i want to specify the distro as, say, gutsy and hardy, how would I do that?
<ScottK> If you're uploading to Ubuntu (or PPA) and not to Debian, then by definition there's an Ubuntu specific change because Debian doesn't have it.
<ScottK> You specify that in debian/changelog
<ScottK> Same line you put the version in.
<ScottK> FYI, the pkg-perl team in Debian seems pretty open.  If you're making Perl packages, you might want to consider getting them into Debian (and thus in the next Ubuntu release).
<Caesar> emgent: what's his launchpad user name?
<Caesar> emgent: nm, I think I've found him
<\sh> moins
<slangasek> plus
<StevenK> cube
<slangasek> ... cube?
<StevenK> Sure, it's a mathematical function, like plus
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> I was speaking French, but ok ;)
<StevenK> Oh, that wasn't clear :-)
<\sh> damn
<\sh> the first time I requested something over ubuntus requesttracker...hopefully you can solve this mess
<Hobbsee> \sh: what have you done?
<\sh> Hobbsee, I'm getting now spam mails via canonical smtp servers with my ubuntu address...
<\sh> last week it was only one a day...now I'm getting them at least once per 2 hours or so..I'll save them now to make a stat out of it...
<Hobbsee> \sh: ah yeah.  That happens.
<Hobbsee> \sh: as in, they're coming in via the canonical smtp, ie they're going to your @ubuntu.com address
<Hobbsee> they like spammng them
<\sh> Hobbsee, yes, but a simple content filter should help...(looking for sender lines like shermann@ubuntu.com, checking for recipient lines like shermann@ubuntu.com, drop that mail if it's not coming from known servers)
<\sh> as we know that we don't use the canonical smtp servers to send mail for @ubuntu.com addresses, because the known addresses a forward only ones
<StevenK> \sh: Er,
<StevenK> \sh: Sure we do
<StevenK> What do you think requestsync does?
<\sh> StevenK, -EWRONGIMPLEMENTATION then...or provide methods for using smtp auth via lp accounts or whatever
<StevenK> You're still able to send via @ubuntu.com
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> StevenK, ok...then add a contentfilter which checks even the gpg signature of the sender...afaik for creating bugs it needs a valid gpg signature ...
<\sh> or just add smtp auth functionality towards fjordland and let the smtp auth methods check against known LP accounts
<\sh> StevenK, but fact is, I don't think that it's normal to send mail from: xxx@ubuntu.com to the very same xxx@ubuntu.com via direct injection to fjordland...
<StevenK> \sh: No, I agree that should be fairly uncommon
<awmcclain> I'm repackaging an upstream SVN version which has an existing debian folder (and tons of its dependencies). What's the best way to handle both the changes to the debian package and the changes that need to be made to make it ubuntu compliant?
<zasf> I'm trying to build gnome-applets from svn
<zasf> I'm using pbuilder but I get some errors I don't understand
<zasf> this is the end of pbuilder build -> http://pastebin.com/m2460e881
<dholbach> zasf: you could try asking in #ubuntu-desktop - did you run ./autogen.sh?
<dholbach> or gnome-autogen.sh rather
<zasf> daniel, I added DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT := $(CURDIR)/$(DEB_SRCDIR)/autogen.sh to debian/rules
<dholbach> then best ask in #ubuntu-desktop
<zasf> thanks
<james_w> desktop-file-validate is reminding me that "Encoding" is deprecated, should it just be removed?
<Fujitsu> If you're otherwise rewriting the .desktop, please kill it.
<Fujitsu> But don't kill it if it'd be the only modification.
<james_w> sure, I'm adding OnlyShowIn for a milestoned bug
<james_w> I'll just add it as a recommendation to the bug with the patch, this package has a maintainer.
<james_w> thanks Fujitsu
<hyperair> hi there. is there any chance that bug #186938 be uploaded into the repository before the final release? nautilus-wallpaper is currently completely broken
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 186938 in nautilus-wallpaper "nautilus-wallpaper not working in hardy heron after update to nautilus-2.21.6" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186938
<hyperair> i meant the fix for the bug. whoops
<james_w> hyperair: hi. I assume that it works?
<james_w> first thing would be to clean up the version numbering and reduce it to a single changelog entry.
<james_w> you need to get an ack from the desktop team for the upload though, that's what the last comment says
<hyperair> james_w: yes it works
<james_w> great!
<hyperair> so i need to get an ack from desktop team?
<hyperair> how do i do that?
<hyperair> oh wait
<hyperair> i just wait then
<hyperair> =)
<james_w> they're subscribed
<hyperair> awesome
<james_w> if you clean up the debdiff then you could ask here
<hyperair> alright i'll get on it
<Laibsch> Hi, when is revu.tauware.de coming live again?  The day that hardy is released (~1 week)?
<james_w> Laibsch: the archive for intrepid doesn't open straight away after the release of hardy.
<james_w> I think it's hoped to have revu back online before that though.
<Laibsch> "that" being what?
<Fujitsu> Er, isn't it working now?
<Laibsch> yes, it is working
<Fujitsu> spooky looks OK.
<Laibsch> the website is up
<hyperair> james_w: i've updated the changelog to show just one entry and built a new debdif
<hyperair> *debdiff
<Laibsch> I was wondering when the revu process kicks back in
<hyperair> james_w: also uploaded to the bug already.
<Fujitsu> Laibsch: Ah, so you don't mean any technical issues?
<Laibsch> no, sorry if my message was confusing
<Laibsch> I want to push a few packages into debian/ubuntu which aren't there yet
<Laibsch> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=gourmet is an example
<Fujitsu> I'd strongly advise you to push them to Debian.
<Laibsch> I think I already did
<Laibsch> Let me check
<Fujitsu> No point pushing them through REVU, then.
<Laibsch> Well, I did not, it turns out
<Fujitsu> Please do.
<Laibsch> and the reason is http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12176586/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.gourmet_0.13.7-1ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Laibsch> I'll see if it builds in hardy
<Fujitsu> I thought you said it wasn't in Ubuntu...
<Laibsch> It's been a while and I don't remember where and why I got stuck exactly
<Laibsch> Fujitsu: It's not
<Laibsch> That is my ppa
<Fujitsu> Ah. THat's wrong versioning.
<Laibsch> OF course ;-)
<Fujitsu> That implies it's in Debian, and Ubuntu.
<Laibsch> I am not so well-versed yet
<Laibsch> Which is why I tought revu might be a good idea for revision
<Laibsch> I don't use debian at all
 * Hobbsee wonders hwo to list all build depends in a package, without downloading the source
<Hobbsee> found it.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: if you have deb-src urls in your sources.list then ... :-)
<laga> Hobbsee: how?
<Hobbsee> grep-dctrl -s Build-Depends -F Package konversation -n /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Sources
<laga> hum
<slytherin> Hobbsee: or you can use launchpad. :-D
<laga> i think i'll use apt-get source. ;)
<Hobbsee> slytherin: er, yes, i can do that....
<Hobbsee> laga: not for ia32libs or something :P
<Hobbsee> laga: i have a file called UsefulCommands.  It contains a lot of htese runes, and what they do
<laga> Hobbsee: you should mirror it on the wiki :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> some of it's already there
<Laibsch> what is the correct version for a gutsy package where upstream source is release 0.13.7-1.  The package is neither in ubuntu or debian.  0.13.7-1-0ubuntu1~gutsy?
<Hobbsee> Laibsch: add a 1 at the end, then yeah, i'd say so.
<Hobbsee> Laibsch: you may need to go to 0.13.7.1-0ubuntu1~gutsy1 or so, to avoid it being native.
<Fujitsu> Erm.
<Fujitsu> ubuntu1 implies it's in Ubuntu.
<Fujitsu> Maybe -0+ppa1~gutsy1
<Hobbsee> laga: a lot of it is seeds stuff, etc.
<Hobbsee> laga: so not useful to a lot of people
<laga> Hobbsee: seeds = the evil
 * Hobbsee doesn't midn them - or at least, the last incarnation of them
<laga> Hobbsee: i probably need to be exposed to them a bit longer to take the scariness away
<Hobbsee> hehe
<laga> i'm just happy the mythbuntu alternate disk is working now, after bugging cjwatson for like ten times :)
<james_w> Hi all. If anyone has a bit of time it would be great to fix https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/link-monitor-applet/+bug/185318
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 185318 in link-monitor-applet "link-monitor-applet dependency problems" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Laibsch> The package I am trying to build needs "Error: PyGTK-2.3.93 or newer is required."
<Laibsch> I have "python-gtk2 (>=2.3.93)" in build-deps but still the build from scratch fails.
<Laibsch> Do I need a different package?  python-gtk2 2.12.0 is being installed into the chroot.
<Laibsch> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12176586/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.gourmet_0.13.7-1ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<james_w> Laibsch: look in configure.ac or configure.in for the test that it being used.
<james_w> Laibsch: ah, sorry, wrong end of the stick
<Laibsch> yep, no configure file
<Hobbsee> Laibsch: try the -dev package of that
<Laibsch> hm, of course!
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Can I convince you to let me upload/sync http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mpich/news/20080416T210221Z.html?
<Fujitsu> It fixes an upgrade issue I just discovered.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: fine
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Thanks. Am I likely to get a sync processed, or should I do it myself?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: unsure, ask slangasek
<Fujitsu> I guess I need to wait for approval anyway, so I might as well request it.
<Hobbsee> i'm assuming they'll do another run, so, i haven't synced the one i want done yet
<Hobbsee> sarah@saturn:~% apt-cache unmet -i | grep Package | wc -l                9:40PM
<Hobbsee> 107
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<Iulian> Hi
<slangasek> further syncs for hardy/universe are probably subject to archive admin availability, and the ease with which we can determine that it's been acked by motu-release
<Hobbsee> slangasek: are you accepting all ones done by motu-release members are acked?
<Skiessi> !info vlc
<ubotu> vlc (source: vlc): multimedia player and streamer. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.6.release.c-0ubuntu5.1 (gutsy), package size 1135 kB, installed size 3228 kB
<Skiessi> ...
<Skiessi> !info+1 vlc
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about info+1 vlc - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Fujitsu> !info vlc hardy
<ubotu> vlc (source: vlc): multimedia player and streamer. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 0.8.6.release.e+x264svn20071224+faad2.6.1-0ubuntu3 (hardy), package size 1113 kB, installed size 3228 kB
<Skiessi> http://wiki.videolan.org/Changelog/0.8.6f
<Fujitsu> I didn't notice a new CVE.
 * Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> Only in VLC.
<Fujitsu> Can they release things so frequently with security fixes.
<Fujitsu> I think their codebase probably needs to be blown away and rewritten properly, but I can't see that happening...
<slytherin> the day gstreamer supports DVD fully, VLC will become irrelevant on linux.
 * laga doesnt use gstreamer at all, AFAIK
<slytherin> laga: What do you use then? mplayer?
<Fujitsu> What's missing in GStreamer DVD support? Menus?
<laga> slytherin: mplayer, xine, amarok, vlc, mythtv.
<slytherin> Fujitsu: yes, and subtitles
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<slytherin> laga: wow, I used to use xine few years back but these days totem/rhythmbox is my favourite combination except when I have to play VCD. At that time I use mplayer.
<laga> slytherin: i dont use gnome, so my exposure to gstreamer is limited
<norsetto> scottk: could I have your opinion on bug 219121 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219121 in nautilus-wallpaper "nautilus extensions still not in accordance with latest libnautilus" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219121
<Zelut> can anyone give me some insight into jigdo? particularly, what makes up the .template file?
<james_w> Zelut: hi. Have you seen http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Debian-Jigdo/howjigdoworks.html#THE.TEMPLATEFILE ?
<StucKman> hi all. I'm trying to backport hardy's lm-sensors-3 to feisty. I had to modify one of the Makefiles, and now I'm getting undefined references, even if the correct objects get into the library and the compilation later links to the correct library. can anyone help with this?
<StucKman> I can provide more info, collecting right now
<StucKman> http://pastebin.lugmen.org.ar/4003
<RainCT> How can I install .po files (with cdbs)?
<doko> ScottK, sistypoty: please could you have a look at bug #191658 ?
<doko> or another MOTU
<ScottK> doko: Looking
<doko> ScottK: this is for UVF exception (packaged as new source and binaries)
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> doko: For the FFe, you need two motu-release.  I just acked it, so that's half of it.
<doko> ScottK: I know ...
<ScottK> doko: Sorry.  Just making sure.
<doko> ScottK: but no others are here ...
<ScottK> norsetto: I acked your nautilis-wallpaper bug.  You around?
<ScottK> We'll see about him.
<norsetto> Scottk: nautilis-wallpaper?
<ScottK> norsetto: bug 219121
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219121 in nautilus-wallpaper "nautilus extensions still not in accordance with latest libnautilus" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219121
<norsetto> scottk: oh right, thats eiciel, thanks!
<ScottK> Whichever package it was that you actually had a question about.
<ScottK> norsetto: Would you please have a look at doko's bug ^^^
<norsetto> scottk: just a sec, I'm fixing 219245 right now
<ScottK> K
<asomething> Any universe sponsors around willing to look at Bug #218172 for me? It already has a motu-release ACK.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218172 in pychess "pychess fails to run on hardy kde4" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218172
<RainCT> asomething: I'm looking at it
<asomething> ï»¿RainCT: Thanks!
<RainCT> asomething: Great, uploading it now. Thanks.
<asomething> ï»¿RainCT: Thank you!
<norsetto> bug 191658
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 191658 in ubuntu "GlassFish V2 UR1" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191658
<emgent> heya people
<laga> bryce__: you working on bug #144322?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144322 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "interlacing broken in gutsy on radeon/ati open source driver" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/144322
<bryce_> laga nope
<norsetto> we need help with bug 219346
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219346 in tseries "r-base transition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219346
 * laga wonders if someone wants to ack a FFE: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythbuntu-diskless/+bug/219356
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219356 in mythbuntu-diskless "mythbuntu-diskless-client-builder udeb breaks d-i" [Undecided,New]
<slangasek> laga: superm1 is empowered to ack those for mythbuntu
<laga> oh, he is. thanks.
<laga> slangasek: "those" == anything related to mythtv or just -diskless?
<RainCT> laga: anything related to mythubuntu (which is in universe)
<RainCT> well, I'm off.. good night all
<RainCT> s/which/as long as it/
<laga> great
<crimsun> slangasek: should we be mentioning MOTU-Release ACKs to you post-upload?
<laga> less paperwork is always good
<slangasek> crimsun: preferably to the archive admin on duty or to $member_of_release team, not to me specifically ;)
<crimsun> slangasek: ok.  Are you on duty? ;)
<slangasek> no, I'm up past my post-RC bedtime
<norsetto> nighty all
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-19
<blizzkid> Hi all, I slightly changed gnome-blog, now how can I send you guys the .deb to look at it?
<DarkMageZ> blizzkid, see the ubuntu packaging guide. available now on the ubuntu wiki. you'll be interested in the patching section.
<blizzkid> DarkMageZ, actually I looked at that, but it's a bit too complicated for me, I'd just like to send someone the .deb and let him look at it (hey, I even don't need credits ;-))
<Fujitsu> A .deb is entirely useless - you'll need to send a source package.
<Fujitsu> You'll need to follow the sponsorship process.
<blizzkid> Fujitsu, I understand that, but... I installed from a .deb as the source wouldn't compile, changed a few files, and did a dpkg-repack. Now I'd just like someone to look at it. If that isn't possible, I'm affraid I can't submit the changes (I'm not experienced enough to go through the normal procedure). I could also just send the changed files
<Fujitsu> The sponsorship process is pretty simple. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<blizzkid> I'll have a look
<bddebian> Heya gang
<nxvl> hey
<nxvl> bddebian: did you take a look at my bugsquad application?
<bddebian> Me?
<nxvl> ups
<nxvl> i confuse you with dbmurray :P
<bddebian> Happens often :)
<TheMuso> 9/me shakes his head. So far as I can see, I don't understand why Fedora disable the ability to turn on/off pulseaudio in the sound preferences.
 * TheMuso shakes his head. So far as I can see, I don't understand why Fedora disable the ability to turn on/off pulseaudio in the sound preferences.
<tuntun> Why on earth do I have do a search for file 'foo' before I get the chance to configure the search?!?!
<tuntun> Main-menu > Accessories > Tracker-Search-Tool   ...Who the hell thought that It would be a good idea to only let the user configure the search after having done a first search?!?!
<tuntun> Main-menu > Accessories > Tracker-Search-Tool   ...Oh great... And it it only searches within the home dir...without even telling you!!! This is turning into a farce...
<Laibsch> anybody willing to fix and upload bug 219485?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219485 in libaqbanking "please sync latest libaqbanking from debian testing" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219485
<Fujitsu> Laibsch: Looks fixed and uploaded already...
<Fujitsu> Any motu-release folk around?
<albert23> exit
<afflux> do you think bug 218570 is suitable for a finalfreeze exception?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218570 in screenlets "screenlets-daemon.py crashed with AttributeError in show_error()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218570
<afflux> same for bug 205973
<emgent> heya tseliot :)
<tseliot> ï»¿emgent: hi .-)
<tseliot> :-)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no.  we all went off to party.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Hah. I filed a bug, anyway.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: what are your thoughts on updating wesnoth?  http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&p=292562 - they tend to be pretty stable
<Fujitsu> Even their devel releases are rather stable.
<Hobbsee> rhonda's been using it, wiht no problems
<rexbron> This may seem like a daft question, but what debuild options do you use to to generate a diff only upload. My ppa is rejecting one done with -S -sd -rfakeroot. It claims that the md5 hashes for the files referenced in the .changes do not match
<zul> deboot -S -sa
<rexbron> doesn't -sa force a full source uoload>
<rexbron> ?
<zul> debuild -S then
<Hobbsee> zul: debuild -S -sa is equivaletn to debuild -S.
<Hobbsee> (-sa is a default)
<rexbron> this is for a -0ubuntu2 upload to the ppa
<rexbron> only files in debian/ have changed
<rexbron> and iirc, PPA's reject uploads if the .orig.tar.gz md5s match
<rexbron> (for the same debian/ubuntu number)
<zul> Hobbsee: heh you are right I need some coffee or something
<rexbron> Rejected:
<rexbron> MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive
<rexbron> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
<rexbron> The only other thing I can think of is that they were corupted during transport...
<rexbron> which is a first for me
<Hobbsee> rexbron: ask cprov, or in #launchpad.
<Hobbsee> rexbron: here is not the place for ppa support, i'm afraid
<Hobbsee> (it sounds like it might be a ppa bug or something)
<rexbron> Hobbsee: Np, My intial question was to make sure it was not an incorrect debuild op
<Hobbsee> rexbron: that being said, you can check that the md5sums of the actual files are the same as those listed in the source.changes file
<Hobbsee> iirc, some switches for building don't actually update the changes file - i discovered this using the merge scripts
<crimsun> Hobbsee: hi, do you have a moment for upload queue processing?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: namely, the trang upload was approved by norsetto on 2008-04-15
<Hobbsee> crimsun: looks already accepted
<Hobbsee> crimsun: or not in unapproved.
<Hobbsee> requires a sync, or?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: sorry, my apt cache was not current.  Sorry for the noise!
<crimsun> (source is already accepted and pushed)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: np :)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: hardy moves too fast at times, i agree.  apt caches are often out of date
<aos101> Would it be possible to get my fix to bug 152856 into hardy, or is the bug too minor to be fixed in the archive freeze?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152856 in gdebi "Kubuntu Package Installer (GDebiKDE) says "Package File Does Not Exist" when trying to install a deb that's in a directory that has a space in  it's name." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152856
<crimsun> IMO that sounds like a pretty important issue
<crimsun> ouch.
<crimsun> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13576116/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.trang_20030619-5.1ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<crimsun> that is totally the same error I got - out of RAM.
<crimsun> I ended up having to build on a machine with 16 GB RAM.
<crimsun> FWIW, the fix is from Debian, and it built on those buildds (although I'm not privvy to the config details)
<crimsun> bah, I'll strip all the optimisations and try again
<aos101> I certainly think the bug is pretty annoying, but I'm not sure it's really a shopstopper.
<crimsun> aos101: could you have it tested more widely (e.g., via #ubuntu+1)?
<aos101> You mean get some people to apply the patch and check it works for them?  I could do I guess.  Or I could ask some people to test it in #kubuntu-devel?
<WujcioL> To any REVU admin: Please re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring
<ScottK> Hobbsee: re Wesnoth, I'm not sure.  There's no compatibility issue with the version we have, so unless this fixes problems that Ubuntu users have reported, I'd be reluctant.
<afflux> do you think bug 218570 is suitable for a finalfreeze exception?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218570 in screenlets "screenlets-daemon.py crashed with AttributeError in show_error()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218570
<ScottK> afflux: If it fixes a crash, sure.
<afflux> ScottK: btw. I think I managed to remove the build-dependency on itself for screenlets. Should I include that cleanup to the debdiff?
<ScottK> afflux: No.  The self build-dep is evil, but since it's in the archive already, we can live with it.  Keep changes to a minumum for now.  Sounds like a good change to push back to Debian though.
<afflux> ScottK: I'll check the debian package in a minute. Uploaded the debdiff, waiting for motu-release ACK
 * ScottK is waiting for Launchpad to load.
<ScottK> Ack'ed
<afflux> thanks!
<ScottK> RainCT: re wxformbuilder: Take the orig.tar.gz from the upstream web site, not the one the packager provided.
<spacepluk> hi, I'm trying to update a package and I'm having some trouble with pbuilder can anybody help me?
<spacepluk> this is my first time :P
<RainCT> ScottK: OK. I'll need to repackage it though (it's a .tar.bz2)
<ScottK> Probably.  Your odds of getting help go up if you ask specific questions.
<ScottK> RainCT: It's better to get the upstream source and do it yourself.  That eliminates one risk point from a security perpective.  Particularly with repacked tarballs it's hard to know for sure that what you've got hasn't been modified.
<spacepluk> well, since I'm new to packaging I'm not sure what to ask. If I paste the pbuilder output can you take a look?
<ScottK> spacepluk: Have you looked at the pbuilder howto on the Ubuntu wiki?
<ScottK> spacepluk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto if you haven't.  I'd look that over first and see if you can solve it yourself.
<spacepluk> ScottK: yes, but I still can't make it work
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Sure.  Pastebin the output.
<ScottK> !pastebin | spacepluk
<ubotu> spacepluk: pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<spacepluk> ScottK: http://rafb.net/p/5Y83Vf29.html
<ValveSoft> we're recruiting programmers at valve software to port the orange box to linux, if anybody is interested please let me know
<ScottK> Looking
<ValveSoft> http://www.valvesoftware.com/job-SenSoftEngineer.html
<ValveSoft> [21:36] <nickrud> ValveSoft you should check in #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntu-mot
<spacepluk> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> spacepluk: It looks like your pbuilder if fundamentally functional.  What are you trying to package?
<spacepluk> ScottK: it's the last release of ardour, a music production software  http://www.ardour.org
<ScottK> Is there an older version in the Ubuntu archive?
<ScottK> If so, try and see if you can build that.
<spacepluk> ScottK: yes, I've taken that to make the package
<spacepluk> ScottK: ok, I'm trying
<ScottK> That'll tell you if you have a packaging problem or a pbuilder problem.
<albert23> spacepluk: Do you have universe enabled in your pbuilder?
<spacepluk> albert23: I think so, I put COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse" in ~/.pbuilderrc
<albert23> spacepluk: did you update the pbuilder with override-config after that?
<spacepluk> albert23: yep
<ScottK> spacepluk: One way to be sure is to use pbuilder login and then look in /etc/apt/sources.list inside the pbuilder chroot to see if it's really there.
<albert23> spacepluk: the failing depends are all from universe....
<spacepluk> ScottK: I'll try that, the original package doesn't build either
<spacepluk> ScottK: albert is right, only "hardy main" in sources.list
<spacepluk> ScottK: how do i fix that?
<spacepluk> ScottK: ok, i forgot the --override-config option
<ScottK> spacepluk: If you want to change it permanently you can use pbuilder login --save-after-login (I think that's it, you can check man pbuilder for the exact syntax) and edit sources.list to what you want.
<RainCT> ScottK: About wxformbuilder, upstream's tarball is missing some files and so fails to build.. I guess it's OK to use that one provided by the packager, considering that he is also upstream?
<ScottK> RainCT: I'm not really comfortable with that.  If you want to take the upstream tarball and then add the missing files in the diff.gz, I'm good with that.
<RainCT> ScottK: OK, I've asked the packager to do so (as I don't know exactly what files are necessary -there is a rather big divergency- and don't have time to mess with that now).
<ScottK> RainCT: I understand.  You got it though that we need to base our packaging on the official tarball.  Maybe he should just re-release.
<RainCT> ScottK: Yes, I understand the point (and actually agree with it).
<ScottK> Great.  Just making sure.
<sistpoty> hi folks
<RainCT_> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi RainCT_
<sistpoty> RainCT: did you merge your new revu patches on spooky already?
<RainCT> sistpoty: no, not yet
<sistpoty> ok
<sistpoty> RainCT: there's a local change on spooky regarding sending mails, maybe this should go to trunk too, but I wouldn't mind as well, if you just undo that change ;)
<RainCT> sistpoty: I see, I'll merge that into trunk
<sistpoty> RainCT: cool, thanks a lot!
<sistpoty> RainCT: btw.: did you merge some new linda stuff (couldn't tell that from the .diff)... I just saw, that you added the GPL header (we had permission to use the old changes parser from linda under BSD, so we revu in general didn't need to be GPL)
<sistpoty> (not that I would mind about GPL or BSD too much myself)
<afflux> say I have an upstream package providing a script for generating documentation *and* the result of using this script. Should I package the result upstream packaged or should I rerun the generation script and package the result of that one?
<RainCT> sistpoty: yes, I updated that RFCwhatever parser in scripts/ to that one in the last linda version (there were just 4 or 5 new lines) and changed a file to used the parser from linda to use the copy that REVU has instead
<RainCT> sistpoty: and removed all linda calls I found
<sistpoty> RainCT: ok, cool... thanks
<sistpoty> afflux: I'd package the source files and run the script during building
<afflux> but it's not sort of "required" that we need to regenerate the docs on our own?
<sistpoty> afflux: that depends very much on the license of the package
<afflux> GPLv3
<sistpoty> afflux: then you'll need to have the "preferred form for making modifications" in there (at least that's what GPL-2 says). So I guess the preferred form would be the source of the documentation
<sistpoty> afflux: and you'll need the scripts to build the actual documentation in the package as well
<afflux> hm, okay
<RainCT> sistpoty: uhm.. is there some way to push /srv/revu.repo/trunk to LP?
<ScottK> afflux: AFAIK that means the preferred source for modification has to be in the source package, not that you're forced to rebuild it.  You need to be able to though.
<sistpoty> RainCT: none that I know off. you could of course do a "bzr diff" and apply that patch to a local checkout, and then do a "bzr revert" on spooky
<sistpoty> RainCT: also, there is a merge --uncommitted (iirc), but I've never used that myself, maybe james_w knows the details ;)
<afflux> ScottK: alright. See the comment on the screenlets bug, don't really know which way is better.
<ScottK> afflux: I think the best thing is let it lie for Hardy and follow Debian's lead in Intrepid.
<afflux> Thats basicly what my second comment says. :)
<ScottK> K.
<RainCT> sistpoty: allright.. production is updated now
 * RainCT hopes that it still works ^^
<slomo__> siretart: so img_convert is also deprecated in ffmpeg now... what's the replacement, do you know? :)
<crimsun> sistpoty: / ScottK: okay to upload http://pastebin.com/d44faae2 ?
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> crimsun: Ack.  Yes.
<crimsun> ScottK: thanks
<sistpoty> RainCT: thanks a lot!
 * ScottK was sort of hoping for a last minute push of FTBFS or RC bug fixes from Debian to approve.
 * ScottK looks around for everybody?
<ScottK> RainCT: Looks like wxformbuilder is ready for your attention again.
<albert23> For a FFe and sync request, can I edit an existing bug or should I open a new bug? Bug 185318 breaks upgrade from Gutsy (upgrade cannot be calculated). link-monitor-applet 3.0 from Debian unstable should solve that (builds, installs and runs on Hardy).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 185318 in link-monitor-applet "link-monitor-applet dependency problems" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185318
<ScottK> Edit the existing bug is fine.
<albert23> ScottK: OK, thanks
<stani> ScottK: A new bug #219558 in Phatch has been found. I will try to investigate it and to submit a patch.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219558 in phatch "Integer error with shadow effect" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219558
<ScottK> I saw that (I get phatch bugmail due to it being in Ubuntu Pythonistas).  Let me know.
<RainCT> good night
<sebner> heya jono :)
<afflux> evening sebner! ;)
<sebner> afflux: you too :=)
<afflux> and good night ;)
<ScottK> albert23: I acked your request.  Since it's a new version, you'll need two ack from motu-release.
<albert23> Scottk: thanks
<bbyever> hi
<bbyever> if i want to patch a package, but it doesnt have a debian/patches folder, do i create it before running dpatch-edit-patch or after or while in the dpatch shell?
<ScottK> bbyever: I think it will create it.  You do have to add the patch to 00list manually afterwards.
<bbyever> ScottK: ok thanks
<stani> ScottK: will you be around tomorrow?
<ScottK> Possibly some of the time.  Mostly not.
<ScottK> I should be around on Monday which may, or may not, be to late for Hardy.
<stani> how long are you still here tonight?
<ScottK> Probably another 5 minutes.
<stani> how do you prefer a patch now? as a debdiff?
<ScottK> Since it's a crash bug we should be able to SRU it if we don't get it in before release.
<ScottK> I think I won't have time to sponsor it, but I'll write an ack in the bug for you.
<stani> it is not a crash bug
<ScottK> It's not?
<stani> no, I should lower the priority
<ScottK> I generally associate tracebackss with a crash.
<ScottK> In any case you have a motu-release ack for an upload, so any MOTU can sponsor the fix.
<stani> the exception of this kind of bug is caught by phatch and logged for debugging purposes
<ScottK> Ah.
<stani> the image is in the wrong format
<ScottK> OK.  Makes sense.
<stani> phatch does not crash
<ScottK> Maybe pochu will be around or another MOTU can look at it.
<stani> just skips the image and gives a warning that the error is logged, that is what people paste in launchpad
<stani> is an ack something which is written or registered somewhere?
<stani> or is it just by 'spoken word'
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-20
<crimsun> stani: either.
<warp10> Hi all
<stani> crimsun: thanks, are you a MOTU?
<crimsun> stani: sure, what do you need?
<stani> well, I just added a debdiff to Bug #219558 which ScottK just acked
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219558 in phatch "Integer error with shadow effect" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219558
<stani> I don't know if you feel like sponsoring it
<crimsun> (looking at it now)
<stani> crimsun: which team should I subscribe? (I didn't do that yet.)
<stani> I've tested that the bug occurred without the patch and that it was solved with the patch
<stani> If you want to reproduce the bug I have to sent you an image by email as it was not allowed to be published on launchpad
<stani> Should I subscribe u-u-s?
<bbyever> yes
<flavorjones> hi - don't know if this issue is on anyone's radar for final release, but #203679 might be something to consider. has a patch attached.
<crimsun> stani: uploaded, thanks
<crimsun> stani: please remember to reference the bug that is fixed (I added it pre-rebuild)
<stani> crimsun: yes, I forgot in the changelog. did you add it there? (I don't understand pre-build)
<stani> crimsun: is it not better to leave a comment that you uploaded it on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phatch/+bug/219558 or do you want me to do it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219558 in phatch "Integer error with shadow effect" [Undecided,In progress]
<stani> flavorjones: you better write bug ï»¿#203679, so ubuto gives the details
<crimsun> stani: it's in the unapproved queue (https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=); just need to poke an archive admin
<stani> great, thanks! if you don't mind I leave a comment about this as otherwise maybe pochu tries to upload it again
<crimsun> stani: sure, be my guest :-)
<stani> crimsun: ok, done thanks a lot ;-)
<stani> crimsun: bye, need to go
<bauglir> There seems to be an alien pubic hair in my Gin.
<emgent> heya
<flavorjones> stani: sorry about that. i was referring to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/203679
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 203679 in hal "hald-addon-inpu making 100%-cpu-usage" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<flavorjones> there is a two-line patch attached, and the bug is severe for those who experience it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: there are 3 bugs, and it fixes 2.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Thanks for the preemptive pdns-recursor ack. I was going to request it later today.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Can you push things through the queue yet?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Goody. I'll have a few more uploads today that could do with being kicked in ASAP.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: k
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, assuming it hasn't broken again, yeah
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: OK to upload http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13386085/hardy_audit_1.6.5-0ubuntu3.debdiff?
<Fujitsu> Anybody feel like looking at bug #219772?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219772 in python-qt4 "Missing Conflicts with pyqt4-dev-tools" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219772
<Hobbsee> tasty.
<crimsun> err, tasty LP.
<crimsun> I think I missed a memo.
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<Fujitsu> Upgrading a complete Gutsy system to Hardy is proving to be rather challenging.
<Fujitsu> It keeps spontaneously dieing for no obvious reason.
<Fujitsu> And takes a good few minutes to calculate dependencies.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: dude....
<Fujitsu> What?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: where exactly did you pull pyqt4-dev-tools from?
<Fujitsu> Gutsy somewhere.
<Fujitsu> Unless mvo slipped it into the dist-upgrader.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh right.  so this wasn't a direct dapper to hardy dist upgrade?
<Hobbsee> like the bug indicates.
<Fujitsu> No, it was Gutsy->Hardy
<Fujitsu> Oh.
<Fujitsu> I mistyped.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: looks like those files should be dropped from -dev-tools
<Hobbsee> oh, hang on
<Fujitsu> Can't do that.
<Fujitsu> It's in Gutsy.
<Fujitsu> I presume,.
<Hobbsee> yeah, just realised it wasn't an all hardy problem
<Hobbsee> You have searched for filenames that contain libpythonplugin.so in suite gutsy, all sections, and all architectures.
<Hobbsee> Sorry, your search gave no results
<Fujitsu> Hmmm.
<Fujitsu> So maybe -dev-tools was upgraded earlier.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i've not yet found the release where -dev-tools contains libpythonplugin.so
<Hobbsee> it's not dapper, gutsy, or hardy.
<Hobbsee> nor feisty, nor edgy....
<Hobbsee> unofficial repos somewhere?  maybe kde4 ones from kubuntu.org or something?
<Fujitsu> 4.3-2ubuntu7.1
<Fujitsu> Looks like gutsy-updates, but LP is being slow.
<Hobbsee> oh, so it doesn't do -updates
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: rmadison ftw.
<Hobbsee> oh, not by default
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: looks like tonio had some concerns about it at the time
<Fujitsu> I'm trying to see details, but LP simply isn't responding.
<Fujitsu> You know what we could probably do with? Waiving of the SRU waiting period for missing Conflicts/Replaces issues.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Did you see my message at ~12:18?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: erm, not sure.  feel free to resend
 * Hobbsee can look up logs, though
<Fujitsu> 12:18:41 < Fujitsu> Hobbsee: OK to upload http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13386085/hardy_audit_1.6.5-0ubuntu3.debdiff?
<Fujitsu> Hmm, can I make aptitude not read changelogs during a dist-upgrade? It takes about an hour.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, sorry.  yes, that's fine
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i think i even had that open, before my system went down.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: ok.
<crimsun> dang, didn't even notice that was in #launchpad.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<crimsun> Fujitsu: ubuntu4 is the one that actually builds in the buildd's allocated memory.
<crimsun> ubuntu3 takes something like 6.5 GB RAM
<Fujitsu> Ah
<Fujitsu> Not bad.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Can the buffer changes in bug #216397 cause anything to explode? It'd be nice to get them into Hardy, as they make SDL PulseAudio output usable.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216397 in libsdl1.2 "sdl patch for better pulseaudio support" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216397
 * jussio1 gets annoyed at whoever changed the sender name for revu stuff...
<Fujitsu> What did it change from/to?
<siretart> jussi01: that would have been sistpoty and/or me
<jussio1> siretart: could you not put revu in front of it? so its more visable? :/
<siretart> jussio1: put what in front of what? what problem do you want to solve?
<jussio1> siretart: currently I get messages from: "This user is only for the REVU service. contact root on problems" its long and ugly :/
<siretart> please more details
<siretart> is that an email? do you get them via the mailing list?
<jussio1> siretart: thats teh revu update ml
<jussio1> siretart: when someone comments, you get a message from www data. when someone updates a package, you get a message from that...
<siretart> jussio1: I need to move the mailman mailing list from my private server (freiburg.tauware.de) to the ubuntuwire mailman installation
<siretart> jussio1: I will review that issue with that occasion
<jussio1> siretart: thanks :)
<Laibsch> good morning
<Laibsch> How do I delete http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=anki ?
<Laibsch> anki is in debian now
<geser> Laibsch: anki is now archived on revu
<Laibsch> geser: What do you mean?  That once it is uploaded, there is no way to delete it?
<Laibsch> That'd be a waste of valuable contributor's time when looking through packages long obsoleted by official uploads
<Laibsch> No, it seems to be an explicit process -> good!
<Laibsch> Can I initiate that process myself?
<siretart> Laibsch: only reviewers can archive uploads
<siretart> perhaps we should allow that uploaders on their own packages as well. patches welcome
<Laibsch> yes, I guess that would make sense
<DreadKnight> heya
<DreadKnight> can someone pack plone 3.0.6 for the repository?
<DreadKnight> plone package missing...
<DreadKnight> www.plone.org
<james_w> DreadKnight: is it zope-cmfplone?
<DreadKnight> james_w: well...
<DreadKnight> james_w: i think so, but that version is ancient
<DreadKnight> nobody sane would use that anymore...
<james_w> that package has gone away in current Debian, does that mean that plone 3 is available in Debian?
<DreadKnight> plone 3.0.4 or something i think is available
<james_w> do you know what the package name is?
<DreadKnight> let me locate it again
 * DreadKnight wonders how hard will it be to pack the latest one from the site
<DreadKnight> james_w: http://packages.debian.org/plone
<Jazzva> Anyone who would help me in testing teatime? It plays the sound, but my computer also locks up when teatime is running ... dunno if it's teatime, since my system has been showing up some strange behaviour lately...
<DreadKnight> 3.0.6-1:all  in lenny (testing) and sid (unstable)
<Jazzva> Oops... wrong channel
<james_w> DreadKnight: ah, ok, that package needs to be synced then.
<DreadKnight> james_w: yes. but nobody on launchpad took any action beside bug triaging..
<james_w> what do you mean?
<sebner> DreadKnight: will. release in in 4 days ...
<sebner> *will/well
<DreadKnight> it was reported a couple of times but nothing...
<DreadKnight> sebner: i am running hardy if that's what you mean
<james_w> DreadKnight: can you provide a pointer to the bug reports please?
<sebner> DreadKnight: yeah. So it's sure that we can't have always the newest software since there are several freezes
<DreadKnight> sebner: i know but plone 3 it's even before gutsy...
<DreadKnight> james_w: one sec...
<DreadKnight> i finally found my way of getting deb files from the packages.debian.org site xD heh
 * DreadKnight ~ is anyone willing to babysit me a bit so you can add one to MOTUs ?
<DreadKnight> :-)
<sebner> DreadKnight: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/GettingStarted ;)
<DreadKnight> sebner: right :)
<DreadKnight> james_w: LP not quite loading for me today...
<sebner> DreadKnight: maybe better: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/
<DreadKnight> sebner: i've bookmarked them, thanks :-)
<sebner> DreadKnight: np ^^. And don't worry. I'm also no MOTU (yet) ;)
<DreadKnight> it's on my "to do" list for this year
<DreadKnight> omg https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/ZopePlone
<sebner> DreadKnight: somehow outdated ^^
<DreadKnight> i can see
<DreadKnight> xD
<james_w> DreadKnight: the team is on alioth
<james_w> http://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-zope/
<DreadKnight> debian zope team :P
<DreadKnight> ubuntu one is dead or something..
<james_w> nope
<james_w> "Debian/Ubuntu Zope/Plone team"
<DreadKnight> ok...
<DreadKnight> james_w: can you resync the package or something?
<sebner> DreadKnight: citat "Release is in 4 days"
<sebner> DreadKnight: you may want to request a backport
<DreadKnight> sebner: ok, i get it xD
<sebner> heya afflux :)
<afflux> hi sebner
<Sebastian> \sh: Will you be at Ubuntu Live?
<crimsun> Fujitsu: yes, the patch looks fine.  I'll add a note to the bug.
<emgent> heya people
<crimsun> 'lo emgent
<LimCore> hello
<LimCore> can I help to put sshfs 1.9 into hardy?  I just builded the .deb for it (amd64) it's trivial
<LimCore> or can someone help?  current version is unusable since it crashes often.    https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sshfs-fuse/+bug/137519
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137519 in sshfs-fuse "sshfs: please update to latest version (1.6 -> 1.8)" [Unknown,Fix released]
<james_w> LimCore: not really as the release in in four days
<james_w> it would still be possible, but you need to get a freeze exception granted.
<LimCore> but hardy's version is also broken
<LimCore> 10 crash reports, it crashes over daily under load
<james_w> it's not completely broken
<james_w> I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, it's just very late in the release cycle to be doing it.
<LimCore> first reported on 2007-09-05  by  Bogdan Butnaru
<james_w> there is a release team that decides whether it is too late, and so they need to be consulted.
<james_w> I realise that this request has been open for a while, and that is a shame, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still very late in the release cycle.
<LimCore> well... I hoped ubuntu will not allow a half-year crash bug, resulting in possible data loss, to be there for another year or so
<james_w> I realise it is bad, I am trying to tell you who you need to speak to to try and get it sorted out.
<LimCore> so how to contact them
<james_w> you should subscribe the motu-release team to the bug and explain to them the situation as well as you can
<james_w> note that the .deb you provided isn't enough, as we can't actually upload that.
<james_w> there is a new version in debian that we can sync to get the update.
<james_w> this would mean that you should rebuild that version in Ubuntu and test it to make sure that it would work
<LimCore> Subscribe someone else to the bug report    person:   motu     like this?
<james_w> motu-release
<LimCore> ok
<LimCore> well this change is simple, just unpack upstream's 1.9 source and done
<LimCore> in such case is there need to provide more explanation or some files?
<sebner> LimCore: but that's not the way we handle updates ...
<james_w> LimCore: you need to provide an explanation of why this update should be considered. I realise that the information is there, but having it in one message makes it much easier for the release team to evaluate.
<LimCore> put it there as a last comment then?
<james_w> yes please
<LimCore> ok I did.  hope it works :)
<james_w> LimCore: thanks.
<james_w> I've never seen segfaults, but I don't use it that much, is it specific to heavy uses?
<LimCore> I had it twice, when I tried to backup a big dir with lots of files
<LimCore> there are like 5-10 other crash reports
<sebner> LimCore: I left a comment ;)
<LimCore> sebner: Im testing 1.9 all the time now
<LimCore> if it doesnt crash till tommorow it means a big improvment
<LimCore> upstream changelog shows dozen of crash fixes as well, between 1.7 - 1.9
<sebner> LimCore: yeah. motu-release have to decide now
<james_w> LimCore: adding that upstream changelog between the two versions to the bug report would be a big help.
<sebner> james_w: I could do ...
<LimCore> hmm it is there in sources actually, Changelog file
<sebner> LimCore: but you should maybe test the debian package since we would use it then rather than yours ;)
<LimCore> ok I really need to work.. I lost 2 days already for hd failure, and now I can work on remote fs finally
<LimCore> hmm how to exacly?
<LimCore> this one  http://packages.debian.org/unstable/utils/sshfs  ?  Package: sshfs (1.9-1)
<LimCore> I should just install the amd64 binary .deb from there?
<james_w> sebner: thanks, please do.
<james_w> LimCore: please download the source package and recompile it.
<james_w> LimCore: install devscripts, and then run "dget -x http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/s/sshfs-fuse/sshfs-fuse_1.9-1.dsc"
<sebner> james_w: It would be nice if you could test the package. I already prepared all the necessary files. But your knowledge is deeper than mine so thanks ..
<james_w> then cd to the created directory and run "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" and then install the .deb from the parent directory.
<james_w> sebner: I'll try and find some time tomorrow to test it.
<sebner> james_w: thanks :)
<Jazzva> Could someone review the patch for teatime? It wasn't playing sound, so I fixed that and changed popup hide function, so it also stops the sound on popup hide. bug 190547
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 190547 in teatime "teatime doesn't play sounds" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190547
<sebner> Jazzva: you may also want to subscribe motu-release ;)
<Jazzva> sebner: Right :)... Thanks
<sebner> np
<Jazzva> and done
<james_w> Jazzva: please remove all of the unnecessary changes
<james_w> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003543.html
<Jazzva> james_w: Ok...
<james_w> also, have you sent this patch to Debian or upstream?
<Jazzva> Not sure if it works in Debian, so I still need to test it. The only way I can think of is to install Debian :).
<Jazzva> I will contact upstream to see if he is having this bug on his system.
<Jazzva> *he/she
<james_w> yeah, speaking to upstream is probably best here.
<Jazzva> james_w: I cleaned the patch.
<james_w> Jazzva: thanks
<Jazzva> Thank you for help and review :)...
<james_w> no problem, good luck getting your change in
<Jazzva> Thanks :)
<sebner> james_w: thumps up for you good support :)
<sebner> *your
<Jazzva> Teatime upstream stopped the development on it. Anyway, I forwarded the patch to include it, if upstream likes it.
<siretart> slomo_: would you please join #xine/oftc?
<albert23> Could somebody please sponsor bug 208140? Motu-release acked and opendict currently fails to start completely.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208140 in opendict "missing dependency python-xml in opendict package (Ubuntu Hardy Beta)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208140
<crimsun> albert23: sec.
<albert23> crimsun: Thanks
<crimsun> albert23: bug report modified, thanks.
<albert23> crimsun: Thanks again :-)
<beasty_> hi
<beasty_> anyone know how i build a fast '(n)curses' installer ?
<laga> for what?
<beasty_> a bash script i wrote
<beasty_> that installs ldap support on our local clients
<beasty_> but it needs a few params
<Fujitsu> beasty_: If you're making a Debian package, use debconf.
<Jazzva> automake related question ... The upstream provided both Makefile.in and Makefile.am in the sources. When I don't run automake in configure rule, the package builds and runs ok. But, if automake is called, it regenerates Makefile.am (I suppose), builds ok and then fails to start. The pkg is gnome-voice-control, a gnome panel applet. Is it ok if I just use the provide Makefile.am?
<Fujitsu> You should use the provided Makefile.am.
<Jazzva> Fujitsu: Thanks :). I will...
<Fujitsu> You shouldn't ever do anything else, unless the existing one causes problems.
<stani> crimsun, ScottK, pochu: do you think latest phatch patch can still be approved? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=phatch
<Jazzva> Well, I didn't do it in the first place. It was done somewhere between now and my last submission to that package :).
<Jazzva> Fujitsu: But, just asking, to be sure :)
<ScottK> stani: Is this the one we talked about yesterday?
<stani> yes
<stani> crimsun uploaded it and set it still needed approval from an admin
<ScottK> Then it's just a matter of waiting for a release manager to approve it.
<ScottK> There's nothing more for us to do.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Can you please attack bug #216397 with an axe, so I can get it in before I go to uni?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216397 in libsdl1.2 "sdl patch for better pulseaudio support" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216397
<stani> ScottK: thanks, just wanted to know
<ScottK> Fujitsu: An axe or an ack?
<ScottK> The latter is easier is I don't have to go search in the garage.
<Fujitsu> Either.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Ack is done.
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Do you see any point in the environment variable changes in that patch?
<beasty_> Fujitsu: ok i'll take a look at it
<Riddell> ScottK: if people have specific requests for things to approve before slangasek shows up they can ask me
<ScottK> Riddell: THanks.  I don't think anything specific is critical, just people getting generally nervous.
<Fujitsu> When is the real final freeze, where it's completely frozen? It has historically been up to 24 hours before.
<ScottK> For Gutsy we froze on Monday.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-19
<persia> micahg: Hey.  Any idea about enigmail/armel?  Seems to build, and then suddenly fall apart due to a missing chrome.manifest.
<micahg> persia: no, I can take a look later
<persia> Thanks.
<lfaraone> If a package manual talks about using another application to get information to use in this package, and there is a maintainer helper script that uses said other application, but it's not technically needed to run the upstream software, should that be suggests or recommends?
<micahg> lfaraone: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html  See section 7.2
<lfaraone> micahg: so I guess it's "suggests"?
<micahg> lfaraone: It depends
<micahg> lfaraone: did you read the 2 descriptions?
<micahg> lfaraone: not technically needed bumps it from Depends, the rest is dependent on how it's normally used
<persia> Do I need a release team ACK to drop a superceded source package from the archive?
<lfaraone> micahg: yes, I did.
<micahg> lfaraone: so, the question is how common is it to use the other app, if common, recommends, if not, suggests
<lfaraone> micahg: basically, "foo" taks as parameters a bunch of things about your monitor configuration. "foo_easy" (written by me) gets that information from xvidtune.
<lfaraone> micahg: and the manpage for "foo" (adapted from upstream text) talks about using xvidtune to get that information.
<micahg> lfaraone: actually, U should rephrase, the manual said recommends is a package is found together in all but unusual installations
<micahg> oops
<micahg> that should be I
<lfaraone> mk, suggests still then.
<persia> Note that there's a certain amount of subjectivity in the distinction between recommends/suggests.  I've had people disagree with my opinions on which is correct previously (and with good arguments).
<micahg> persia: that's exactly why I won't answer the question directly :)
<persia> micahg: Always a good choice :)
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: isn't libperl-critic-perl in universe?
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Not anymore
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: is someone else (besides me or ivoks) requested its inclusion in main?
<RoAkSoAx> s/is/has
<ScottK> It was needed as a build-dep for something else.
<ScottK> I'm going through the Main FTBFS and depwaits
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: oh ok, because we wanted it at first for the Cluster Stack, but then ivoks realized that it wasn't actually needed, and that's why we dropped the hardcoded depends on perl modules for cluster-agents and cluster-glue
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: you might wanna take a look to [1] if you are tracking the dependencies down... [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterStack/MIR?action=diff&rev2=44&rev1=36
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: I'm not specifically focused on cluster stack.  Just getting all the stuff that's already in Main buildable and installable from Main.
<ScottK> I think it's a coincidence that your cluster stack stuff got touched so heavily.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: i know I was just explaining why those MIR's were marked as Invalid :)
 * ScottK nods
<RoAkSoAx> ;)
<MTeck-ricer> So.. does anything actually depend on plymouth other than plymouth-* ? I know a coupdl have Depends: plymouth - but do they actually depend on it being there?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> I know what you're thinking.   Don't do it.
<MTeck-ricer> ScottK: :P - how do they depend on it?
<MTeck-ricer> ScottK: I'm just curious because as far as I can see it looks like it only provides a splash screen
<ScottK> I don't recall the details but plymouth is involved in properly serializing IO during boot or something like that.
<ScottK> It doesn't.
<MTeck-ricer> alrighty
<MTeck-ricer> ScottK: thanks
<MTeck-ricer> ScottK: so is it not possible to tear those two pieces of functionality apart?
<ScottK> MTeck-ricer: Anything is possible.  There is a possible system where they are separated, that's not the one we have.
<MTeck-ricer> How can I see what replaced a package from karmic?
<persia> MTeck-ricer: You can't, triviallly.  You can try fiddling with grep-dctrl or look at dependencies of the rdepends of the package being replaced.  Sometimes there are transition packages.
<MTeck-ricer> persia: oh- i was trying to figure out what replaced gnome-volume-manager
<persia> MTeck-ricer: Which bit of gnome-voume-manager?  It used to do lots of different things.  I think the media players replaced some of it, nautilus replaced other bits of it, etc.
<persia> But you might ask in #ubuntu-desktop: they're more likely to know for sure.
<MTeck-ricer> persia: ok, if you don't know i'll pop over - I want to figure out what handles the magical mount/unmount of external devices
<persia> For GNOME, that's nautilus.  For XFCE, that's thunar.  I don't know for other environments.
<MTeck-ricer> thunar doesn't do that though
<MTeck-ricer> unless there's something it's just not doing on my system
<MTeck-ricer> persia: I guess I have to run - but I've been using thunar and it doesn't seem to do any magical mounting
<MTeck-ricer>  - when you plug in a device
<persia> Ask in #xubuntu-devel : it should.  I know I added it to the MID edition when we did that precisely for this feature.
<MTeck-ricer> persia: ok, thanks
<psusi> hrm... getting there... after defragging ureadahead time during boot drops from 7 to 4 seconds...
<persia> psusi: What's your total wallclock now?
<psusi> persia, my what?
<persia> Total boot time.
<psusi> not sure since it remains a fairly constant around 1 min due to waiting 45 seconds after mountall to shut down
<persia> (from the perspective on a clock on the wall of the room in which your computer is contained, in case you're doing something odd with the computer's sense of time during boot)
<persia> Ugh.  What's that 45-second wait?
<psusi> but before vs after defrag, time spent in ureadahead drpos from 7 to 4 seconds
<persia> Right, which made me think you were one of those folks who had the 7-8 second boot.
<psusi> ureadahed still spends an unaccptable amount of time open()ing the files since it keeps blocking on a single 4kb read of the directory before continuing
<persia> That you consider it unacceptable leads me to believe that it won't be that way for maverick :)
<psusi> indeed ;)
<psusi> when booting from my rotational disks, it's about 1 second of time spent with virtually zero IO while ureadahead open()s all the files it is about to readahead
<psusi> I need to paralellize those opens across multiple threads to speed it up since it seems you can not readahead() directories
<psusi> and that's why the open() calls block... have to read the directory blocks to figure out where the files are
<psusi> even after defragging
<psusi> hopefully during mav I can get a few people to test defrag for me ;)
<persia> Did you make a nice GUI that shows all the blocks getting put in the right place?
<psusi> yea ;)
<persia> Then I'm sure you'll get testers.  People always like GUIs.
<psusi> though this defrag program has been around since dinasaures ruled the earth... was originally written by theodore ts'o and remmy card and linus back in like the 1990s
<psusi> or 1980s even
<psusi> I"m just reviving it
<psusi> it's a simple ncurses ascii gui
<persia> The main obstacle is the myth that you don't need to defag extN
<psusi> generally speaking you don't.. not in the way you "NEED" to defrag window
<psusi> windows
<psusi> but I'm getting it to interact with ureadahead to pack the files that ureadahead reads at the start of the disk so they can be real uber fast
<persia> I think the semantic distinction between "don't need" and don't "NEED" has been lost along the way.
<psusi> exactly
<psusi> windows NEEDS defragmented since it tends to get HORRDIBLY, HEDIOUSLY FRAGMENTED due to using the most retard algorithm for block allocation known to man
<psusi> most of the time ext[234] does a good job of minimizing file fragmentation these days, especially ext4
<persia> Yeah.  OS 7 did something like that, where it loaded the kernel, extensions, type mapping, base applications, and directory entries at the "beginning" of the disk, so they would get read (in order) on startup for faster startup.  Mind you, that was still measured in minutes, but...
<persia> Well, if there's free space, yeah, it's rare to have a fragmented file.
<psusi> but this old e2defrag program lets you specify a priority list so it will pack certain files first.. so I can have all the files that ureadahead wants packed at the start of the disk so they read in real fast
<psusi> crap, wife says it's past my bed time
<psusi> have to resume this tomorrow... night...
<persia> Are modern rotary disks fast enough that one can actually put all the bits in order at the beginning and read them, or does one still benefit from staggering it a bit to deal with discrepancies between sustained throughput through the interfaces and raw disk read speed?
<persia> Ah, good night.
<MTeck-ricer> persia: just figured it out :D    sudo aptitude install thunar-volman     hald && thunar --daemon
<MTeck-ricer> persia: thanks :)
<micahg> how does one recover from this in a prerm script:  update-alternatives: error: alternative path /usr/bin/seamonkey doesn't exist.
<micahg> persia: around?
<persia> micahg: Now.
<micahg> persia: :)
<micahg> how does one recover from this in a prerm script:  update-alternatives: error: alternative path /usr/bin/seamonkey doesn't exist.
<persia> One 1) only runs the prerm under certain conditions (check the arguments), and 2) tests for the presence/absence of an alternative path prior to calling update-alternatives.
<micahg> persia: so if I do a -e on the path before running it I should be ok?
<persia> micahg: Um, I think you want something richer, but that's a minimal test
<micahg> persia: is there a better way
<persia> Well, update-alternatives accepts --query and --display.
 * micahg will go with simple for now
<dholbach> good morning
<adahendra> morning
<james_w> persia: could you take a look at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~voronov84/ubuntu/lucid/ubuntu-dev-tools/lucid/+merge/23577 please?
<MTeck-ricer> persia: I thought it was working, wake up and no more :(
<c_korn> can sbuild be configuered to run lintian -i on the generated debs ?
<blueyed> Any hints on skipping dbconfig setup with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive? (bug 560144)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 560144 in postfix-policyd "noninteractive install fails: "No database user specified."" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/560144
<ScottK> pychecker is back in Universe after the next publisher run.  Thanks again ajmitch.
<arand> If there are already simple-cdbs patches named both with letters and numbers (10.patch bar.patch foo.patch) should one maintain that naming and just add z01_foobar.patch (to fix order) or rename the old patches with numbers, when trying to keep the fix as SRU-friendly as possible?
<ScottK> arand: Don't rename the old patches.  An SRU should be the slightest fix possible.
<arand> ScottK: Ok, noted.
<MTeck-ricer> Is there any PHP-5.2.x package for 10.04?
<MTeck-ricer> I'm dealing with an ugly issue that I need to use the old version of php
<micahg> MTeck-ricer: don't upgrade to lucid then
<MTeck-ricer> micahg: I'm just curious if it's an option. That's the one and only issue with 10.04 and that has nothing to do with Ubuntu - that's bad coding.
<samgee> hi guys. I found http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gambas2/gambas2-doc_1.9.49-2ubuntu1_all.deb, but there doesn't seem to be a source package for that version. That's a bug, right?
<joaopinto> samgee, the source is available, source package name gambas2
<jpds> samgee: Might be related to bug #549041.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 549041 in soyuz "don't de-index source packages until they're due to be removed from disk" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/549041
<samgee> jpds, oh lovely, that's the bug I indirectly reported to James :)
<jpds> Heh.
<samgee> joaopinto, I know what the source package's name is, I just can't find it for that version
<samgee> I find it a bit strange that it's only of medium importance, though
<joaopinto> samgee, ops :|
<samgee> joaopinto, thanks for helping anyway ;)
<samgee> btw, is there anything I can do to help fix that bug? Apart from the gpl violation it's also just annoying when I come across it while working on our own repo.
<jpds> samgee: Fix Soyuz?
<samgee> I guess so
<jpds> I would ask around in #launchpad-dev.
<samgee> ok, thanks
<RoAk> james_w, why would I get this while doing a bzr diff? http://paste.ubuntu.com/418789/
<james_w> RoAk: probably the root id changed, but I'm not sure
<RoAk> james_w, weird, how would I resolve it?
<james_w> RoAk: dunno, depends what you are doing
<geser> last time I saw this, I ignored it and hoped it won't reappear in the next merge
<micahg> ttx: is there any reason why phpmyadmin doesn't depend on some version of mysql server?
<RoAk> james_w, i'm merging redhat-cluster from debian testing. THe current version in Ubuntu a new upstream release package by ivoks, so Im guessing that something went wrong there?
<ttx> micahg: hmmm... because it can be installed on a separate host, maybe ?
<james_w> RoAk: probably a bug in the importer. I think you should just carry on
<RoAk> james_w, will do then. thanks :)
<micahg> ttx: the problem is that we're getting faliures if mysql isn't configured before mysql
<micahg> ttx: I meant mysql before phpmyadmin
<ttx> micahg: is there a bug number ?
<ttx> zul: could you look into that ^ ? I'm leaving now
<zul> sure
<zul> is there a bug number?
<micahg> ttx: zul: bug 566840
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566840 in phpmyadmin "package phpmyadmin 4:3.2.2.1-1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566840
<micahg> zul: I saw a couple others
<zul> micahg: its a common dbconfig-common problem
<micahg> zul: is there a master bug to dupe these to?
<zul> not really its a design of dbconfig-common
<micahg> zul: well, should we create a bug then?  This happens with other mysql based apps as well like request tracker
<ajmitch> the problem is that postinst shouldn't just blow up, though it does it on too many packages
<zul> micahg: sure go ahead....hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> morning
<micahg> zul: k, should I subscribe you?
<zul> micahg: yep
 * micahg will do this later
<doctormo> ScottK: This is basically what I want to do: http://imagebin.ca/view/79p58iGb.html
<ScottK> Looks ~right in the amount of time I have to look at it now.
<doctormo> It passes the ebert review test, I'm going to dig up some other people to have a look too: persia?
<andreserl> james_w, could you take a quick look to lp:~andreserl/ubuntu/lucid/redhat-cluster/merge-from-testing-lp-566858 and see if the branch is correct?
<persia> doctormo: Chapter 2: drop "contrib"  Maybe <i>others</i>?, chapter 3: `debuild -b` to get binary, chapter 4: the queue uses sbuild rather than pbuilder (but a special fork of sbuild: maybe "buildd queue"?)
<persia> james_w: looks right: I'll merge that in a bit.
<persia> So, lovely.  bzr merge can't actually process that :/
<doctormo> persia: Where you saying that a packager should write their control file manually?
<persia> Lots of places.  I generally say that in any forum where it's appropriate.  I don't think our control file generation tools are good enough yet.
<persia> We do best for python, with python-stdeb and python-distutils-extra (listed in the order of my preference), but we do fairly poorly for other sorts of code.
<imbrandon> evening all
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> soooo i need to find a DD near ( ~100miles ) me
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> maybe a lazyweb post about it
<imbrandon> bring someone out of the woodwork
<imbrandon> ajmitch: you do python(web) stuff for work alongside your php dont you ?
<imbrandon> i wanna commission a specific feature for a python cms ( floss ) even if i have to pay to get it done, i just cant wrap my head arround it to get it "right"
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I do a little
<imbrandon> intrested in looking into my request ? i'm *estimating* ( not well because i'm not a python guru ) its about a ~2 hour "project" and i'm willing to put $100usd into it , we can take it private if your intrested ( this is a gpl'd cms and i would like the code to also be released gpl etc so it has a chance to make it upstream )
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ok
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-20
<micahg> RAOF: chrisccoulson fixed gjs on i386
<RAOF> micahg: Yay!
<RAOF> armel is still out of luck?
<micahg> RAOF: he's going to look at it
<YokoZar> ScottK: Just made another Wine upload.  One change is that the package wine (for old 1.0 stable wine) needs to be resurrected: its source should still be on the server, but its binary packages were being replaced by dummy packages in wine1.2 beta package.
<YokoZar> ScottK: easiest way to do this is just minor version bump wine and wine-gecko, which I'll do later after wine1.2 is built
<YokoZar> ScottK: after that I can fix that package you linked earlier (it needs to build off old stable wine due to changes in winelib)
 * YokoZar is off to drive home
<ScottK> TheMuso: There are audacious, audacious-plugins, wine-1.2, and nautilus-image-converter uploads in the queue.  All these are in the ubuntustudio package set.  Which, if any, of these do you want in for RC?
<TheMuso> ScottK: Audacious changes are all that seem relevant out of that list.
<TheMuso> However I would be interested to know what the fixes are for nautilus-image converter as well.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Do you want to respin for it or should I hold it?
<TheMuso> ScottK: hold
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/44860525/nautilus-image-converter_0.3.0-2ubuntu2_source.changes
<ScottK> I'm not sure how much we care about icon renaming at this point (the audacious changes).
<TheMuso> right
<TheMuso> not very much I'd say
<TheMuso> but for the final release, those translations are probably worth it. I always have thought that the more translations the better.
<ScottK> I'd appreciate a review by ubuntustudio of the audacious/audacious-plugins uploads before Thursday to let me know if you want them in the final release or stick with what we have.
 * imbrandon returns
<ScottK> YokoZar: Wine is part of the ubuntustudio package set so I can't accept it until after RC freeze is over unless they want to respin their ISO for it.
<imbrandon> so what happens to a debian package when its between "incomming" and the archive in debian ... :(
<imbrandon> my upload was accepted ~9 hours ago but still not in the archive :(
<persia> YokoZar: Oh, also, what do you think about adding wine1.2 to P-a-s?  I'm not sure it will ever be useful for sparc/armel, and I'm unconfident that anyone has powerpc windows binaries to test.  I have no idea about ia64.
<persia> imbrandon: Check other mirrors: you might be hitting mirror skew.  Once it's out of incoming, it should be somewhere (although maybe not yet pushed to mirrors (remember ftp.debian.org is a mirror))
<imbrandon> persia: ahh yes, i've been checking http.us.archiv.debian.org , probably should check others
<imbrandon> you know what the canoncial one is ?
<imbrandon> ( not company, e.g. the "real" one the mirrors sync from )
<persia> There (intentionally) isn't one for "canonical".  For "Canonical", it's hidden in launchpad, and I don't think it has an external URI.
<imbrandon> hum
<persia> My understanding of the reasoning is that if there *was* an official master, it would be overloaded.
<persia> And I believe this is based on historical precedent, where it *did* get overloaded.
<persia> So everything happens on mirrors now.
<imbrandon> true, i wonder where DAK installs it to first though, its gotta mirror to somewhere
<persia> I believe DAK installs to ftp-master, which gets mirrored.  I believe that ftp-master isn't accessible except to mirrors.  I may be mistaken.
<imbrandon> i wouldent be so worried if i wasent in a time crunch, i wanna sync before launch
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> persia: ahh that sounds right
<persia> imbrandon: Check ftp.debian.org: it's likely to be the most up-to-date mirror (although it's probably not the highest-performance mirror)
<imbrandon> nope :(
<persia> imbrandon: And check *inside* the pool.  The way that debian gets mirrored means that the pool updates before the metainformation.
<imbrandon> not on incoming.d.o or http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/a/apt-mirror/
<persia> and no email?
<persia> Very odd.
<imbrandon> i got the email
<persia> Maybe DktrKranz or bddebian can give guidance on how it really works then.
<imbrandon> apt-mirror_0.4.7-1_i386.changes uploaded successfully to localhost
<imbrandon> along with the files: apt-mirror_0.4.7-1.dsc apt-mirror_0.4.7.orig.tar.gz apt-mirror_0.4.7-1.debian.tar.gz apt-mirror_0.4.7-1_all.deb
<imbrandon> etc etc etc
<imbrandon> whatever machine is ries.debian.org
<imbrandon> ( thats where the email came from )
<imbrandon> Your Debian queue daemon (running on host ries.debian.org)
<imbrandon> ahhh
<imbrandon> ries.debian.org == ftp-master.debian.org
<imbrandon> sooo its probably mirror lag, but damn, thats alot of lag
<persia> ries is not actually ries, but another host running the ries filesystem, but that's trivia :)
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> not sure exactly what that means but okies
<imbrandon> oh well i'll give it a few more hours before i start considering someone more drastic like a fake-sync
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> s/someone/something
<imbrandon> persia: do you know what mirror LP will atempt to grab it from for a sync ?
<imbrandon> guess thats the one i should really be worried about
<persia> I believe it's the mirror inside LP.
<persia> But I suspect that a skilled archive-admin could pull from anywhere.
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> i just dont wanna *not* get it in because of a mirror problem ;)
<imbrandon> its already late as is
<persia> You could just upload it, with -0ubuntu1 :)
 * imbrandon chuckles at the thought of a mirror problem with apt-mirror
<persia> Assuming you've the appropriate FFes, etc.
<imbrandon> persia: yea, i considered that, but i think i will give it a few more hours just to see if it shows up
<imbrandon> yea its a bugfix only release, FFe's and such a re g2g
<imbrandon> are*
<persia> So yeah.  When you get too itchy, upload.  Until then, wait.
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> this release did see the first upstream packaging for fedora,opensuse and win32 though ;)
<imbrandon> was kinda happy about that
<persia> Nice.
<persia> So, tell me, what does apt-mirror give me that would improve on my debmirror experience?
 * persia uses ubumirror for ubuntu, and plans to migrate to lmirror, but still hasn't found a completely satisfactory solution for debian
<imbrandon> honestly i have never used debmirror so i would not probably be the best to tell on that one, but TheMuso did switch ( among others ) for reasons unknown to me exactly
<persia> OK.  So, why use apt-mirror then?
<imbrandon> i know apt-mirror can do partial mirrors well of just one arch, or arch+source or like 2arches + source etc
<imbrandon> i *think* i was told thats hard with debmirror
<imbrandon> and multi releases
<TheMuso> apt-mirror uses a similar config file format similar to sources.list for one.
<imbrandon> i really should check out debmirror , hehe , to know what i'm up against, its more of an alternative to say rsync where you may not want the whole archive
<persia> It's possible, but it requires fairly complex calls to debmirror
<TheMuso> It also has multi-threaded downloading if you want that.
<imbrandon> yea and the config is very similar to sources.list
<TheMuso> doesn't mirror installer-$arch/i18n/dist-upgrader stuff though. Not hard to patch in though if one wanted that.
<persia> e.g. /usr/bin/debmirror -a amd64,armel,i386,powerpc -s main,main/debian-installer --method rsync -h ftp.jaist.ac.jp -r :pub/Linux/Debian/ -d sid -d squeeze /data/http/debian --pdiff=none
<imbrandon> TheMuso: i actualy added that stuff in examples for 0.4.7 in the postmirror script
<TheMuso> imbrandon: ah ok
<TheMuso> I used to use debmirror, but the mirror.list config file format won me over, pure and simple.
<imbrandon> persia: the same thing in apt-mirror would be like ....
<TheMuso> Easy to extend if I wanted to
<imbrandon> deb-amd64 ftp.jaist.ac.jp/debian main main/debian-installer
<imbrandon> in the mirror.list
<imbrandon> and lines for the other arches
<TheMuso> One downside to apt-mirror is no rsync.
<persia> Oh, that would be less ideal.
<imbrandon> yea, i tried to overcome that a bit with postmirror.sh , but i really wanna add something new ( but still keep it simple ) for 0.5.0
<imbrandon> hold on persia lemme past an example mirror.list ( and yea its not for everyone, but i have had nothing but good reviews of it )
<imbrandon> paste*
<imbrandon> ( in pastebin )
<persia> imbrandon: I'll definitely give it a try when I have a chance.  I'm not entirely satisfied with debmirror.
<TheMuso> Because apt-mirror doesn't support rsync, I'd say I probably may have a few stale files in my tree from stopped downloads that have been superseeded.
<TheMuso> So a way to clean out stale files would be useful.
<imbrandon> also the other good thing is the limited deps, it only depends on perl and wget thus is very portable
<TheMuso> unless the clean stuff in mirror.list does that...
<imbrandon> the clean should take care of that TheMuso
<imbrandon> with md5 checks and such
<persia> Oh, stale cleanup is imporant to me.  I (try) to mirror sid, and that can have a *lot* of churn.
<persia> Oh, good.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: ah ok then I should be fine then.
<imbrandon> yea it has its own clean that can autoclean after each mirror or be run manualy
<imbrandon> or both
<imbrandon> persia: http://pastebin.ca/1869004
<imbrandon> thats the "default" config for debian
<imbrandon> forget the double line numbers, it was a paste mistake
<persia> And can it reuse an existing mirror set as a base?  I'd rather not spend a day reinitialising my mirror :)
<imbrandon> yes as long as your base path is seup correctly
<imbrandon> setup*
<TheMuso> Yeah, I migrated my mirror from debmirror tp apt-mirror with little issue./
<TheMuso> s/little/no/
 * persia will definitely try this in the near future
<imbrandon> like persoanly i use /storage/apt-mirror for a base path, so i can rsync and move the rsync to /storage/apt-mirror/var/mirror/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu and be fine
<imbrandon> it will even clean the stuff from rsync that it dosent need anymore
<imbrandon> brb soda refill time
<imbrandon> persia: worst case i can see is tell apt-mirror to use your existing mirror as its source for the initial mirroring, then switch to the "official" mirror your grabbing from , then rm the old
<imbrandon> not ideal but would work in a worst case thing
<imbrandon> to save a huge download
<TheMuso> I probably won't switch from apt-mirror unless there is something that can significantly improve on what apt-mirror has to offer, and since I mirror everything, this shouldn't be a problem post archive re-org.
<persia> Oh, good idea.  I can play with apt-mirror against my current mirror to get a feel for it.
<persia> TheMuso: Once lmirror support is added to the archives, I'll share my experience.  Won't help for Debian mirrors short-term, but ought significantly reduce overhead of mirroring Ubuntu.
<imbrandon> yea playing with it against ppa's is good for testing too , as ppa's tend to be smaller and can get a feel for things
<imbrandon> when i bug squish i use my ppa as a "test bed"
<TheMuso> persia: sounds good.
<imbrandon> lmirror ?
<TheMuso> And when I say everything, I mean everything for amd64, i386, source, and powerpc.
<imbrandon> yea i only mirror i386, source, and powerpc, no amd64
<imbrandon> i have the room now, i should probably start, i just dident have the room on my raid when i started mmirroring
<nhandler> TheMuso: How much space does that take?
<imbrandon> nhandler: each arch is about 30gig give or take a little ( for ubuntu )
<nhandler> imbrandon: Is that source+binary? Or just the binary packages?
<imbrandon> just binary
<imbrandon> last time i looked source+i386 was like 55gig
<imbrandon> but that was months ago, might be a bit diff now
<imbrandon> rember also the first arch you mirror will be a bit larger than others too because of the arch_all packages
<imbrandon> ( not a huge diffrence though )
<TheMuso> powerpc is 96G for main, restricted, universe, multiverse.
<imbrandon> wow
<persia> imbrandon: lp.net/lmirror
<TheMuso> amd64+i386+source combined is 224G for all the components mentioned above.
 * imbrandon looks
<TheMuso> This excludes instlaler-$arch, i18n, and dist-upgrader dirs in dists
<lifeless> TheMuso: lmirror
<imbrandon> you know, canoncial should buy lp.net like sourceforge bought sf.net
<imbrandon> :)
 * TheMuso checks out lmirror.
<lifeless> TheMuso: jpds will be testing it out in the dc in the nearish future
<TheMuso> cool
 * persia get annoyed at LVM
<TheMuso> lifeless: sounds like something that official mirros will use
<imbrandon> lifeless: is it a new protocol or will it work against say ftp://
<lifeless> imbrandon: it can read from ftp
<lifeless> TheMuso: yes, and how is a personal mirror different to an official one?
<lifeless> TheMuso: [other than not wanting the general internet to pull from it]
<TheMuso> lifeless: true that.
<imbrandon> lifeless: not all arches ?
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> no but i see what ya mean, its really handy
<lifeless> imbrandon: not all mirrors mirror all arches anyhow; filtering is definitely needed, though actually I want us to advertise per-arch lmirror sets
<imbrandon> that would be awesom, if you need outside testers i can def drum some up , lol
<imbrandon> i end up knowing alot of apt-mirror users LOL, steal my userbase hahahaha
<lifeless> imbrandon: definitely, once we have a test mirror
<imbrandon> lifeless: is this a canonical project or is it a community one , or mor importantly ( to me ) is it floss
<imbrandon> more*
<lifeless> me, gpl
<imbrandon> awesom
<lifeless> as in, personal time, gpld
<imbrandon> sweet, yea if you need any help lemme know, i'm not a great python guru but i can test and give ya use cases and drum of some of our users that might be more suited to lmirror vs apt-mirror
<imbrandon> plus i have a new 5tb array to fill with something other than porn ( shhh )
<lifeless> herh
<lifeless> *heh*
<TheMuso> lol
<persia> lifeless: Actually, one way in which a personal mirror differs from an actual one is that personal mirrors are unsuitable for push-mirroring from official mirrors.
<imbrandon> bzr launchpad-login imbrandon
<imbrandon> err
<lifeless> persia: why?
<imbrandon> persia: and on that note sometimes need to be ratelimited on their downloads ( eg apt-mirror config can say only download @ 10kb/s per thread )
<persia> lifeless: Erm, resource allocation?  firewall configurations?  I could probably come up with some other things, but they, like the ones I mention, could be argued away.
<lifeless> so, some official mirrors will want rate limiting; and push-mirroring - I want to end up with comet support which will neatly avoid nearly all firewalls
<gastons> is dpkg-buildpackage a wrapper for dpkg --build ?
<imbrandon> nhandler: the blog post about my email is up, formatting is a little wonky on the planet, but you can click through to read it better if wanted
<lifeless> gastons: amongst other bits, yes
<gastons> ok thks
<Ciemon> Morning all, bug 343430 seems to be quite simple, although I'm not having any success.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 343430 in gpredict "Menu item Help -> License doesn't do anything; missing COPYRIGHT file" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/343430
<Ciemon> To test a debian/rules change, do I just download the source, change the rules, then pbuild? Or do I debuild prior to debuild?
<Ciemon> heh, that should be debuild prior to pbuilder?
<Ciemon> I realise you're all up against it at the moment, so if the answer isn't simple, don't worry about it :)
<RAOF> Ciemon: Download the source, change the rules, then do one of (a) build a source package (debuild -S) & pbuilder it, or (b) build a binary package (debuild)
<Ciemon> Thanks RAOF
<DktrKranz> imbrandon: flow of packages in Debian work this way. When you upload a package, a software called queued moves it to a queque called "unchecked" on ftp-master.debian.org (actually it's ries). It happens every five minutes, and you get "successfully uploaded to blabla" (usually "localhost") mail.
<DktrKranz> imbrandon: unchecked scan happens every 15 minutes (unless dinstall is running, actually at 0152,0752,1352,1952 UTC), and you get "foo_ver.arch.changes ACCEPTED" mail.
<DktrKranz> imbrandon: during dinstall, package moves to pool, and some black magic starts to sync ftp-master with the mirrors about 1h after dinstall is started (and this takes a while). You should be able to get packages ~3h after dinstall is started.
<DktrKranz> persia: FYI too --^
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: what if you never get the second mail
<imbrandon> btw thanks for the clairification
<imbrandon> i got the "successfull upload to localhost" email ~12 hours ago almost exactly, but nothing since then
<imbrandon> not a ACCEPT or REJECT
<DktrKranz> imbrandon: could you please tell me name of the .changes file, so I look where it is now?
<imbrandon> sure one sec
<imbrandon> apt-mirror_0.4.7-1_i386.changes
<YokoZar> persia: Don't like it, as there 1) is an arm port underway, 2) are already parts of the package usable on all architectures (eg fonts), and 3) multiarch will make things nice again soon
<imbrandon> multiarch a reality ? i thought that was a myth in the deb world ;) /me ducks
<DktrKranz> imbrandon: Reject Reasons:
<DktrKranz> found unknown status token 'SIG_SUBPACKET' from gpgv with args '['24', '1', '29', 'hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net']' in apt-mirror_0.4.7-1_i386.changes.
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: ugh , ok thanks for looking
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: could i bother you for a sponsor upload LOL, no worries if not i'll have jbouse fix it in the morning
<DktrKranz> sure
 * DktrKranz checks if he has key here
<imbrandon> awesome, its in collab-maint, i'll get you the url
<imbrandon> all checked in and tagged etc
<DktrKranz> I have key, updating chroot
<imbrandon> DktrKranz:  ok cool. its at git clone git://git.debian.org/collab-maint/apt-mirror.git
<DktrKranz> oki
<imbrandon> master branch should be the same as what was uploaded, but its also tagged
<DktrKranz> I could eventually fetch rejected upload and resign :)
<imbrandon> heheh
<imbrandon> what ever is easier on you
<dholbach> good morning
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<DktrKranz> imbrandon: mind checking if everything's OK before uploading? http://people.debian.org/~dktrkranz/apt-mirror/
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: sure one sec, sorry went afk for a moment
<DktrKranz> np
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: yup, looks good
<DktrKranz> uploading then
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: btw thanks again for taking the time to look for it and also sponsor this upload ;)
<DktrKranz> imbrandon: done. given that dinstall is started 10 minutes ago, expect the ACCEPTED mail to come in ~2.5 hours from now :)
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: great, thanks ;)
<DktrKranz> I'll check myself too, as I get it as well.
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: hum it sent an email about the changes file already being present
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: i'm sure you got the same mail though
<DktrKranz> mh, no
<imbrandon> ohh ok, one sec
<DktrKranz> if it's queued, only Maintainer gets it
<imbrandon> http://pastebin.ca/1869240
<DktrKranz> yeahyeah, seen it on queued output.
<imbrandon> the old upload have to be rm'd first or something
<imbrandon> sorry this turned into a pita ;)
<DktrKranz> np, if everything turns bad, we'll upload a -2 ;)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> heh got an email about the amd64 one now
<imbrandon> same thing, someone else came first
<DktrKranz> yup, I tried that way too
<imbrandon> ;)
<DktrKranz> soo, uploading a -2 will fix
<DktrKranz> as I'm not confident enough to remove broken uploads already managed by dak :)
<imbrandon> yup yup, go ahead and just add a superfuralus changelog entry if you want
<imbrandon> or just change the version of -1 to -2 and skip -1 , whatever your more comfortable with
<DktrKranz> I'll turn it -2
<imbrandon> k
<DktrKranz> ok, let's see now
<DktrKranz> Apr 20 08:19:31 processing /apt-mirror_0.4.7-2_i386.changes
<DktrKranz> Apr 20 08:19:31 /apt-mirror_0.4.7-2_i386.changes is already present on target host:
<DktrKranz> Apr 20 08:19:31 Job apt-mirror_0.4.7-2_i386.changes removed.
<DktrKranz> what?
<imbrandon> wth
<imbrandon> erm
<imbrandon> definately strange
<imbrandon> its all greek to me, i mean i know what its saying but not why
<DktrKranz> definitely, I'll look after dinstall to see wth is happening
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> so like ~3 hours ?
<DktrKranz> yup
<imbrandon> kk
<jetienne> q. where can i find the prerm script of an installed .deb ? i got one which is buggy, and so i can no more remove it
<carstenh> ls /var/lib/dpkg/info/packagename.*
<jetienne> carstenh: thanks
<imbrandon> gnight all
<geser> persia: as you have done all previous xserver-xorg-video-displaylink uploads: should I upload a FTBFS directly or give you a branch to merge/debdiff/just the quilt patch?
<persia> geser: Please just upload.
<persia> I don't understand.  I did my testbuilding always on amd64 :(
<persia> Oh, chroot safety checking.
<geser> persia: unless you do the same check like the buildds on pointer conversion, it will succeed
<persia> Yeah.  I need to integrate that into my sbuild config.
<Ciemon> Laney: could you give me a shout if you have 5 mins spare, I'd like you to confirm some findings on bug 343430
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 343430 in gpredict "Menu item Help -> License doesn't do anything; missing COPYRIGHT file" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/343430
<Ciemon> -
<persia> I think that's a side effect of debian policy, and the easiest solution is to add a patch redirecting the menu item to /usr/share/doc/gpredict/copyright
<persia> Unfortunate, as it means more patching of the code than is desired, but I think upstream did the right thing, and the packaging was correct, and it would be buggy to ship both copyright and COPYING.
<Ciemon> hi persia, so the rules comes from Debian
<persia> At least we share some portions of it, yes.
<Ciemon> OK, well, the COPYING file comes with the source
<persia> Right.
<Ciemon> which is essentially a version of the GPL
<persia> Ah, yeah, debian/rules is entirely from debian: the only ubuntu-specific patch is some .desktop file edits.
<persia> Seems to be GPLv2.
<Ciemon> ok.. so is there a copy of the debian policy that I can read to understand why the licence has been removed?
<persia> Sure, I'll dig it up.
<Ciemon> excellent
<persia> Quick version is "to save space", because GPLv2 is shipped as /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
<persia> So we ought be patching the source to have Help...License show that file.
<carstenh> reporting a bug in the debian bts would help
<persia> Indeed.
<Ciemon> I'm talking with the author, so I'll do it that way
<persia> Ciemon: Upstream behaviour probably shouldn't change.  This belongs as a distribution patch because the bug is a side effect of distribution policy.
<persia> I believe the upstream behaviour to be correct.
<carstenh> fix seems to be replacing the path in the source code / configure / what ever with /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
<Ciemon> yeah, easily done.
<persia> RIght, but *as a distribution patch*  There's no guarantee that file exists on a non-debian-derived system.
<Ciemon> Right, thanks for taking time to explain.. it's all new.
<carstenh> Ciemon: if you report this bug including a patch against debian this might raise the chances to get this fixed in debian and thus avoid work in ubuntu after syncing with debian next time
<Ciemon> Will do, and I'll commment on the bug in launchpad.. which could effectively close it
 * persia wishes pages at www.debian.org would load faster already
<persia> carstenh: Well, given the nature of the issue, we'd probably want to do the work in Debian anyway.
<carstenh> persia: try www.debian.tld
<carstenh> persia: yes, but that does not imply that you really report it against debian
<persia> We tend to.
<persia> Either as a bug report, or by working with the Debian maintainers to apply a patch from an LP report.
<carstenh> there are both, good and bad examples
<persia> Unfortunately, yes.
<persia> Ciemon: So, policy 12.5 indicates to reference the /usr/share/common-licenses/ files rather than include the entire license in debian/copyright.
<persia> I can't find the bit that says not to ship upstream COPYING, but it's standard practice to not include it (as this information is always in copyright anyway)
<persia> policy is available with apt-get install debian-policy, or mirrored in several places (I use http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ but it's very slow for me right now)
<carstenh> persia: you can't find anything that is not there
<persia> carstenh: OK.  So where is the bit that says we don't ship COPYING?  Is/was it in the maintainers guide?  Is it just a semi-oral practice guideline?
<carstenh> when there is additional information like copyright holders it's perfectly ok to include the file
 * persia always lists *all* the copyright holders in debian/copyright
<persia> I'm sure I've been told to do this at some point, but I very much don't remember where or when.
<carstenh> persia: but do don't patch source code to cat /usr/share/doc/packagename/copyright
<persia> carstenh: No, the idea is to patch it to use /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
<persia> (which happens to be the same contents as COPYING)
<persia> If it's not the same content, then that's not the solution, but I believe it to be the same.
<carstenh> persia: yes. but given COPYING would contain copyright information and the help button would display this file there would be a regression if you would simply change the path
<carstenh> if this is not the case common sense says /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2 is preferable
 * persia runs diff to check
<persia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/419181/ suggests to me that it ought be patched in debian to use the common-licenses file.
<persia> And all Debian derivatives (including Ubnutu) would then have this issue resolved, without needing to significantly increase the installed-size of the application.
<carstenh> persia: i didn't answer your question from 13:23:06. everything except debian policy is a recommendation (e.g. the debian developers reference) and might be ignored if you know what you are doing. this part of the policy (12.5) is worded as a suggestion, so it simply means: "do whatever you like if it's reasonable"
<persia> Well, yeah, but still :)
 * persia comments on the bug
<carstenh> old fsf adresses are a lintian warning and debian tends to patch them anyway
<carstenh> oh, this is not an old adress, just different whitespaces :)
<persia> And an extra comma.
<persia> (or a missing comma: I forget)
<persia> Still, nothing worth shipping an extra file.
<Ciemon> thanks for the comment persia, hopefully I'll get to write my first patch with this package
<persia> Ciemon: Good luck.  Ask if you have questions.  As carstenh said, the right way to solve this is to report the bug to the BTS and post the patch there.
<persia> (because this is also a bug in Debian)
<warsocket> Hi, anyone fancy's to help me  get a gambas program properly packaged,  I kinda have probembs building a source package and getting a change file
<warsocket> *which i can upload to REVU
<maxb> warsocket: It's best if you can ask specific questions - people may have time to answer those when they don't have time to get involved in an extended discussion
<persia> And many people prefer to answer specific questions even when they do have time for an extended discussion.
<warsocket> ok
<warsocket> Where can I get a good resource on creating source packages, google only gives me the how o I compile source packages answers
<maxb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete can be a bit daunting because it is so large, but is a good thing to read
<warsocket> Ok will re-read that one, tnx
<c_korn> can dh_make be configuered not to create a orig.tar.gz file when specifying a orig.tar.bz2 with the -f option ?
<persia> c_korn: The easy way around that is not touse dh_make :)
<c_korn> persia: yeah, I thought you would say that :)
<hyperair> the proper way is to fix dh_make
<blueyed> is xulrunner-1.9.1 going to stay during lucid?
<micahg> blueyed: no
<micahg> blueyed: that's why I put the comment in the miro bug
<blueyed> ah, hi :) - talking with willkg => #miro-hackers?
<blueyed> have not read/catched up.
<blueyed> when will it get removed?
<micahg> blueyed: soon
<micahg> blueyed: as soon as we verify all rdepends are gone
<micahg> blueyed: do you want me to hop in miro-hackers?
<blueyed> micahg: no. it's clear now.
<blueyed> (mre)
<blueyed> +o
<persia> hyperair: Does "RM: I don't like it?" count as a fix?
<hyperair> persia: it can, if you're convincing enough ;-)
<persia> The problem is that dh_make is actually useful when teaching people why packaging works the way it does.
<persia> I just don't believe it to be useful to actually package stuff (and believe relying on it to package stuff builds poor habits).
<hyperair> persia: i like having a debian/control template done up for me actually =\
<hyperair> but i think we've been through this argument before =)
<persia> I guess.  What bothers me is that it7s always wrong.
<Laney> I just copy from another package
<persia> And wrong in subtle ways that test the packagers understanding of policy.
<persia> Like I said, useful if you're teaching someone and want to test them.  Less useful if you're packaging.
<persia> But it seems to be maintained, which makes it harder to remove.
<hyperair> we should improve lintian to detect all of dh_make's flaws =p
<hyperair> is anyone getting a launchpad that just has a red "Loading" rectangle at the top left corner?
<blueyed> micahg: can you create a upstream xulrunner bug for bug 537050, please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 537050 in democracy "miro.real crashed with KeyError in wrapper() (Miro keeps running)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537050
<micahg> blueyed: I'll look into it
<blueyed> micahg: great. http://bugzilla.pculture.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13169 has testcases - I'm not sure which one is better though.
<ubottu> bugzilla.pculture.org bug 13169 in Miro Guide "miro browser doesn't work on lucid" [Major,New]
<micahg> blueyed: I'll take a look at that a little later
<psusi> jdong: did you never get that defrag script you wrote packed and into the archives?
<jdong> psusi: no, I didn't
<psusi> doh
<psusi> jdong: hopefully tonight I should have e2defrag working with extents... had a good go at it last night but still having a little trouble handling it when there are more than the 4 extents that can fit in the inode and the tree depth grows to 1
<jdong> cool
<psusi> all other ext4 features are working well so that will be the last thing to do I think before it should be ready to try and upload
<joaopinto> hi, anyone familiar with the virtualbox package ?
<psusi> I guess now I need to look into becoming a motu
<joaopinto> is the "Install guest additions" expect to work ?
<highvoltage> slangasek: /join #ubuntu-release
<highvoltage> (oops)
<\sh> joaopinto, it worked at my place with downloading the iso of the guest tools
<joaopinto> strange, it warned about the download, but then nothing was installed/mounted
<joaopinto> butI found that there is a package with the addons
<joaopinto> a guest package
<\sh> joaopinto, hmmm..i tested it on lucid 64bit
<joaopinto> \sh, same here
<joaopinto> it gave the "about to download warning"
<joaopinto> oh wait, it is mounted after a reboot on the vm
<\sh> joaopinto, yeah..and after download it was mounted in the gues os (win 7 testing) and I could install it without a hassle
<joaopinto> \sh, thanks, it worked after restart the vm, but this is a lucid guest also
<\sh> oh well I outed myself ;)
<\sh> joaopinto, will test it tomorrow afternoon with some linux guests i think
<joaopinto> anyway I decided to go with the guest package from the repository :)
<micahg> blueyed: I have to see if the bug is in xulrunner or python-gtkmozembed
<blueyed> micahg: have you gotten the test case(s)?
<micahg> blueyed: not yet
<blueyed> micahg: would help apparently. I've tested them both, but I think the one first posted is the way to go (the one just failing, without error on console) - but you want to test both maybe, if the first one does not work out.
<micahg> blueyed: does the patch take care of us for lucid though or do we need to figure this out before release?
<blueyed> micahg: we have a patch for lucid, and I've uploaded it already.
<blueyed> but apparently it's a xulrunner bug.
<micahg> blueyed: yes, I saw, just asking if that does it for miro
<micahg> or if it's only a partial fix
<blueyed> would be nice to get it fixed for lucid.
<blueyed> partial fix, for now.
<blueyed> it might break when fixing xulrunner, maybe.
<micahg> blueyed: we'll get xulrunner updates as they're released, so we can get this fixed upstream later, I"m just wondering if it solves the issues entirely for Miro
<blueyed> it's likely to influence other dependent apps, too.
<blueyed> yes, it solves this particular issue.
<micahg> blueyed: k, I'll try to keep an eye out for other apps that might show that errro
<blueyed> xulrunner-1.9.1 gets deleted already?
<micahg> blueyed: yeah, it should, I didn't see anything about binding to a certain xul in the patch
<psusi> then links at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=169551 for joining MOTU seem to be wrong... they lead to pages documenting how to become a core developer, not a motu
<ScottK> Since virtually no developers have anything to do with Ubuntu forums, it's not suprising that would be one more topic they are misinformed about (although I didn't look at the specifics of the case)
<warsocket> I got a question about packaging,  how should i set $DESTDIR or should dh_make set it?
<warsocket> it fials here in the makefile: cp gsmartdimmer-0.0.1.gambas $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin
<warsocket> *it tries to copy to /usr/bin
<maxb> It is the responsibility of debian/rules to pass the proper DESTDIR to make
<warsocket> I just made that file with dh_make
<warsocket> wich generated the debain deirectory for me
<warsocket> so what directory should i set it to so debuild can make a binary package out of it?
<warsocket> this line is in the debian/rules file under install:  but I guess it does not work ?
<warsocket> $(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/gsmartdimmer install
<maxb> That looks correct to me
<warsocket> cp gsmartdimmer-0.0.1.gambas $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin
<warsocket> but that gives an error
<warsocket> because i cant write to /usr/bin
<warsocket> just as if $DESTDIR is empty
<warsocket> but it should be set
<warsocket> *confused*
<warsocket> *i checked with a echo in the makefile
<warsocket> $(DESTDIR) is empty
<dutchie> 21
<dutchie> :(
<warsocket> For anyone wondering im one step further, the rror was that install: was the top rule of my makefile
<carstenh> persia: we broke topgit ... maybe cherrypicking from upstream instead of applying patches by hand would be less error prone
<carstenh> persia: problem is that "dosomemagic" became "dosomemagic during copy and pasting
<carstenh> persia: bug 566852 (hello bot)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566852 in topgit "Missing end quote in tg.sh v0.8-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566852
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-21
<lfaraone> kees: hey, did you have a chance to look at uploading the branch attached to bug 538471 to karmic-security?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538471 in autokey "autokey: insecure use of temporary files (Data Corruption, Local Denial of Service)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538471
<crimsun> carstenh: fixed & uploaded, thanks.
<arand> Is there an easy way to do the intent of "patch -R < 1.patch > 1_reverse.patch" ?
<carstenh> crimsun: thanks for the quick fix :)
<lfaraone> For GPL projects, all of the project source files do not need a GPL header and authorship information, do they? (http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6891 doesn't make sense to me)
<jdong> lfaraone: they do.
<lfaraone> jdong: mk. a "this package is free software, you may..." in README isn't enough?
<jdong> no
<jdong> lfaraone: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Copyright Information
<jdong> For all files it must be clear under which license they fall. Source code files should usually have a short comment at the top which points out the license.
<carstenh> jdong: this doesn't sound correct and your link does not justify your statement, nor does common sense
<jdong> carstenh: what doesn't sound correct? that each source file should have a copyright header stating its license?
<jdong> feel free to get someone else here to clarify that point, but that was always my understanding of what the archive administrators expect to see.
<carstenh> jdong: well, should != must
<jdong> carstenh: should as in I've had several packages rejected in my 3-4 years of packaging around here for that reason :)
<jdong> so should \approx must.
<carstenh> jdong: do you know an example (without looking it up, this wouldn't be woth the effort)?
<jdong> carstenh: examples are hard to find in that archive rejections usually are handled by a private email from an archive admin, and the history is not recorded in LP
<carstenh> jdong: i wanted more example for a rejected source than the rejection itself
<carstenh> but only if you remember a name without looking it up
<jdong> looking on REVU should give you plenty of examples
<ScottK> crimsun: Why did you change the VCS stanzas in topgit?
<carstenh> zcat (shell script) in bzip2 is a trivial example for a gpl source without gpl header
<ScottK> There are pleanty of cases where the GPL header is missing.
<ScottK> These are bugs and should be fixed.
<ScottK> As long as the upstream intent for licensing is clear and well documented, then the lack of the header won't get a package rejected from the archive.
<ScottK>  !rejected != bug free
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<crimsun> ScottK: pitti started me doing it some time ago
<ScottK> crimsun: OK.   We had a discussion about it on #ubuntu-devel.  I hadn't seen it before.
<ScottK> Seems like overkill to me for minor package changes.
<ajmitch> apache2 is where I'd seen it before, packaging changes are a bit more in-depth there
<ScottK> Makes more sense to me in that kind of context.
<ScottK> In Kubuntu we replace the Debian ones with pointers to our own.
<crimsun> ScottK: I'm happy to revert it, but I do it from force-of-habit these days.
<ScottK> crimsun: No, it's fine.
<ajmitch> ScottK: we don't need to subscribe -release for minor changes yet, do we?
<ScottK> ajmitch: Not for bug fixes in Universe, no.
<ajmitch> great, ~ubuntu-archive it is
<ScottK> ajmitch: If it's an upload, you can just upload and it'll get reviewed in the queue.
<ajmitch> it's a sync
<ScottK> OK
<ajmitch> and it's just to fix a FTBFS, so probably low priority
<psusi> YES!@ got e2defrag working with extents
<ScottK> ajmitch: No, we want those.
<ScottK> (I hope you were being sarcastic)
<ajmitch> ScottK: low compared to needing to get something fixed ASAP for release
<ajmitch> A package that works but can't be rebuilt cleanly can probably be fixed in a SRU
<ScottK> I think having a maintainable archive for LTS is very important.
<ScottK> True.
<ajmitch> & with only a few days left to get fixes in, you probably want to make the most of that time
<ScottK> OTOH, the builders are sitting idle right now.
<ajmitch> That's unusual, noone has uploaded gcc & OO.o today?
<ScottK> Nope.
<ScottK> gcc was yesterday.
 * ajmitch shouldn't leave fixing stuff so late for 10.10
<ScottK> Better late than never.
 * micahg has a fix if a sponsor wants to upload :)
<micahg> bug 562737
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 562737 in libjdic-java "Update libjdic-java for xulrunner-1.9.2" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562737
<ScottK> ajmitch: ^^^ - If I upload it, I can't review and accept it.
 * ajmitch spots java in the name & runs :)
<ScottK> It'll be fun.
<ajmitch> fetching now, it may take some time to testbuild
<micahg> ajmitch: it's a one line change in rules :)
<micahg> ajmitch: builds fast :)
<ajmitch> but will probably require 100MB of packages to build it
 * micahg doesn't recall
<ajmitch> and worse, it requires xulrunner-1.9.2-dev just to run the clean target
 * ajmitch hates packages that do stupid stuff in clean:
<micahg> ajmitch: just trying to make sure it can build :), file a bug w/debian if you don't like that
 * ajmitch is not on a fast connection at the moment
<ajmitch> I'll have to leave it until later
<micahg> ajmitch: k, no rush
<ScottK> ajmitch: You'd have to move to fix that.
<ajmitch> ScottK: DSL isn't too bad at home, as long as I fetch from a NZ mirror
<ScottK> Good point.  I forgot about local mirrors
 * ajmitch isn't at home right now, but will be in an hour or so
<imbrandon> xulrunner for :clean
<imbrandon> wow
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it's more the use of ant for everything
 * ajmitch may have misread the requirement for the xulrunner package, but ant is annoying
<micahg> ajmitch: no, I think it actually uses xul inside the package
<ScottK> Any MOTU here who cares about syncevolution working might want to investigate Bug #528326 and make a recommendation.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528326 in libsynthesis "Sync libsynthesis 3.2.0.35+ds2-2 from debian sid" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528326
<crimsun> ScottK: makes more sense to sync syncevolution from testing.
 * maco giggles at that sentence
<ScottK> crimsun: Please say so in the bug if you haven't.
<ajmitch> is that still possible to do so now?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> I got yours on the list I gave to slangasek already
<ajmitch> ah, it was libsynthesis that got synced from sid, not syncevolution
<ajmitch> ScottK: I meant in reference to that specific case, where 3.4.0.5 got synced
<ajmitch> but I got confused as to which package was synced :)
<ScottK> Ah
<ajmitch> but thanks for passing on the other sync request
<imbrandon> ok so i got a question that may seem a little off but google is giving me too much info
<imbrandon> i want to format an external usb drive with a filesystem that can handle usb permissions BUT is graceful on ripping it out without unmounting it
<imbrandon> ~320gb
<imbrandon> extX dosnt seem like it would be graceful on a unclean dismount
<imbrandon> hum
<jdong> imbrandon: ouch, you're probably gonna have to find that next to the good tasting diet soda and fat free donuts...
<imbrandon> hahaha
<jdong> the caching semantics on USB externals are apparently horrible at guarding against any sort of unexpected disconnect
<imbrandon> i dont really care about nthe file integrity ( wont hold anything important ) mostly just dont wanna have to fschk it every other mount because i yanked it
<jdong> well the cache is blind to data vs metadata. it'll lose both without discrimination :)
<jdong> and some of the kinds of corruption that'll cause will likely be irreparable via fsck even.
<imbrandon> hum
<crimsun> if you really don't care, ext4 or btrfs
<jdong> yeah it's not a pretty picture
<jdong> I don't recommend btrfs
<jdong> it still oopses all over the place with any metadata corruption
<jdong> and it relies on barrier semantics to prevent said metadata corruption
<crimsun> hence the "if you really don't care"
<ScottK> And if jdong doesn't recommend something, you really don't want to use it.
<jdong> HAHAHAHA
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> I'd have to say ext4 is your best choice
<jdong> physical block journaling should minimize corruption, and the fsck is one of the fastest.
<imbrandon> fat32 does what i want as far as not having to fsck the damn thing, but no unix permissions support sux
<imbrandon> ok, ext4 it is then
<jdong> well fat32 technically needs to be fscked way more than ext3/4
<imbrandon> hehe well the mounter dosnt complain about it
<jdong> you can have all kinds of fun structural issures with dirty fat32's
<jdong> lol no the mounter doesn't complain
<jdong> but it's a far more hazardous situation
<crimsun> 7 minutes to take advantage of the newegg 80 GB intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G2R5 for US$214.99 ;-)
<jdong> hahaa
<jdong> esata is probably better
<jdong> but I don't assume change-of-interface is an option
<imbrandon> well this thing is gonna just be sneakernet use mostly , for movies and such between my wii and my laptop and desktop
<imbrandon> jdong: and no, i have a cheap usb enclosure i'm ussing on my 2.5in sata western digital 320gb drive ;)
<jdong> :)
<imbrandon> but its easy to stick 100gb of movies on to watch on the wii
<imbrandon> :)
<jdong> yup :)
<imbrandon> ( and the kids cant scratch the disks )
<imbrandon> crimsun: wow, i wish i had the money, just seen what you said about the ssd
<imbrandon> the next laptop i purchase i'm going to get a ssd for ( even if i have to buy it seperate and replace the internal drive )
<imbrandon> i could just splurge on wired networking for the wii and keep the drive perm attached, lol
<imbrandon> that would seem to easy though
<dholbach> good morning
<joaopinto> anyone familiar with packages which include upstart scripts ?
<persia> joaopinto: I've seen a few: generally dh_installinit does the right thing.
<joaopinto> bug 530179 needs some love
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530179 in virtualbox-ose "[lucid] vboxsf mounts defined on /etc/fstab cause errors on boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530179
<joaopinto> the vboxsf support module needs to be loaded from  a startup script.  prior to mountall
<persia> *prior* to mountall?
<persia> Ah, reading the bug log: along with starting mountall.
<persia> OK.  So have you tried with a local /etc/init/virtualbox-ose-guest-utils.conf ?
<joaopinto> well, was trying, but failed and I was too tried to debug it
<joaopinto> but I guess it will be easier for someone with upstart scripts experience
<joaopinto> I find upstart scripts hard to debug
<persia> Ah.  I know lots about how to deploy them correctly.  I know much less about the contents/
<joaopinto> I will need to ping  Scott
<persia> He's exceedingly rarely in this channel: -devel might be better.  That said, it may just wait on him to respond to the bug, based on the last comment asking him for input.
<joaopinto> as i understood that last comment will cover the error aspect of the bug, on the mountall, not the packaging issue :)
<persia> Oh.  I read it as asking for input on the content of the upstart script that should be included.
<joaopinto> persia, ops, you are right
<joaopinto> still about the vboxfs issue, if there are packages providing filesystems from external modules we may get the same problem
<Roobarb-Work> ScottK: ping
<zul> gday
<dharmatin> :)
<tarzeau> could someone take ppa packages and get them into official ubuntu if they are perfect, lintian like?
<c_korn> tarzeau: packages are not included from PPAs. you want to upload them to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/ for REVU
<warsocket> who is responsible for revu here?, the wiki siad I should state it here if my upload wont show up in REVU
<tarzeau> c_korn: thanks, i'm looking at that page
<tarzeau> c_korn: and that's for already in but newer version packages, and completely new packages?
<sistpoty|work> warsocket: which package?
<warsocket> gsmartdimmer0.0
<warsocket> gsmartdimmer_0.0-0ubuntu1 in full
<sistpoty|work> warsocket: hm, can't find such a package, not even in the rejected queue
<warsocket> weird
<sistpoty|work> warsocket: do you still have a .upload file?
<warsocket> yes
<sistpoty|work> warsocket: can you pastebin it please?
<warsocket> Successfully uploaded gsmartdimmer_0.0-0ubuntu1.dsc to upload.ubuntu.com for ubuntu.
<warsocket> Successfully uploaded gsmartdimmer_0.0-0ubuntu1.tar.gz to upload.ubuntu.com for ubuntu.
<warsocket> Successfully uploaded gsmartdimmer_0.0-0ubuntu1_source.changes to upload.ubuntu.com for ubuntu.
<jpds> warsocket: That went to ubuntu, not REVU...
<sistpoty|work> warsocket: ah, you didn't dput to revu, but to ubuntu (it'll just get silently dropped there)
<warsocket> oh
<warsocket> the wiki siad dput automaticlly would upload it it the right oplace
<warsocket> but ill have a look how to change that
<warsocket> thank you
<sistpoty|work> warsocket: dput revu <changesfile>
<sistpoty|work> ;)
<warsocket> ok tmx
<warsocket> k, done
<warsocket> now I hope to see it in 5 mins,  thanx for the help
<sistpoty|work> yw
<warsocket> Package is for "Maverick" but only packages for "lucid" are currently accepted.
<warsocket> I thought lucid was alredy closed?
<shadeslayer> it is
<shadeslayer> archive is frozen....
<warsocket> so basicly I cant upload my package to a single distro
<lfaraone> warsocket: you have to wait for lucid to be released before uploading to maverick.
<warsocket> lucid is frozen maverick is not yet active
<warsocket> ok
<shadeslayer> warsocket: yes,what you can do is upload to your PPA
<shadeslayer> that way you can get out new packages
<shadeslayer> warsocket: then port them to maverick and upload
<warsocket> erm stupid question maybe
<warsocket> whats a PPA
<shadeslayer> !ppa | warsocket
<ubottu> warsocket: With Launchpad's Personal Package Archives (PPA), you can build and publish binary Ubuntu packages for multiple architectures simply by uploading an Ubuntu source package to Launchpad. See https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart.
<warsocket> oh ok I get it tnx
<shadeslayer> np
<shadeslayer> warsocket: support in #launchpad
<warsocket> you btw have soem experience with gambas
<warsocket> I also have a error that i cant have build depends when creating a package for all architectures
<warsocket> but the build depends on gambas2-dev
<warsocket> *was just a long shot
<warsocket> but tnx for the PPA will have a look
<fabounet> Hi there !
<fabounet> We have some last-minute bug-fixes for the Lucid package of Cairo-dock, and we need someone to ack these so that they can be pushed in Lucid.
<fabounet> Please see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo-dock/+bug/568083 for the complete description of the fixes.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568083 in cairo-dock "Please update Cairo-Dock to v2.1.3-10" [Undecided,New]
<matttbe> this 'little' release is important because it fixes a crash with libxml
<matttbe> only appeared on Lucid
<matttbe> and this crash appears when the user changes theme, or with weather applet, etc.
<persia> So, looking at the bug, it seems all bugfixes, which typically means no barriers to upload.
<persia> The bug seems to indicate lp:ubuntu/cairo-dock should be uploaded, but the last revision there is fom 2009-10-05
<fabounet> yes, it's only 3 nano versions that we wish to push into the Lucid package
<persia> Is that branch accurate, or are there updates?
<matttbe> persia: there was a bug with lp:ubuntu/cairo-dock
<persia> What's the bug?
<persia> Or do you mean bugs in the software in that branch?
<matttbe> no a bug with the branch... in fact there is no rev11
<matttbe> I already have reported this bug
<persia> OK.  How would rev11 get there?
<persia> Who pushed it?  Where?  When?
<persia> (and what's the bug you reported about the branch?)
<matttbe> this bug was confirmed by James Westby
<persia> I believe it's a bug :)
<persia> I'm just trying to collect enough information to 1) make sure that either processes are followed, or I can tell you what needs doing, and 2) get the necessary bits to upload something.
<matttbe> I don't know where is this rev :)
<persia> OK.  How do you know that it existed?  Do you know if it exists somewhere else?
<matttbe> it exists on my branch : https://code.launchpad.net/~cairo-dock-team/cairo-dock-core/ubuntu
<persia> Great!
<persia> There's a revision 12 there too.  Is that also something that should be uploaded?
<matttbe> the rev 11 was the version 2.1.3-6 of CD => http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/cairo-dock
<matttbe> and the rev 12 fixes some other bugs (and a crash with libxml)
<persia> So rev 11 is the current state of the repository, and rev 12 is the desired state?
<matttbe> yes :)
<persia> OK.  There's two things I'd like to see then.
<persia> 1) Please link the branch and the bug.
<matttbe> oh yes, sorry :)
<persia> 2) Please submit a merge proposal for lp:~cairo-dock-team/cairo-dock-core/ubuntu into lp:ubuntu/lucid/cairo-dock
<persia> Next: this also affects the cairo-dock-plug-ins source?
<persia> Err, "cairo-doc-plugins"
<fabounet> yes for the plug-ins, it also contains some bug-fixes
<persia> OK.  Please also link that branch, and submit a merge proposal from that branch into the lucid branch.
<matttbe> ok, the two branches have been linked
<persia> (Yes, this is busywork since I'm going to upload, but this procedure also causes automated notification, which *should* reduce your need to come hunt folks in IRC in the future)
<persia> Great!
<persia> OK.  I see both branches.  Each should have a merge proposal.
<persia> *also*, the bug shoud get a cairo-doc-plugins task: "also affects distribution"..."Ubuntu"/"cairo-dock-plugins"
<matttbe> ok, merge proposal done
<matttbe> ok
<persia> Excellent.
<matttbe> project added!
<matttbe> thanks :)
<persia> Now, as soon as the branch discovery tool runs, this would show up on http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<persia> And if you get it on that list, the sponsors know they are supposed to upload it.
<persia> This isn't a guarantee it gets uploaded (or reviewed) sadly (lack of developers checking the list), but it can let you confirm that you've followed the right procedure to request the sponsoring.
<persia> (and most of the time should save you a visit here to catch someone).
<persia> Now, I've no idea if it will actually appear there, as I plan to try to figure out how to upload it now, and I may succeed before the sponsoring report includes it.
<matttbe> ok, so we just have to wait for a new sponsorship
<persia> Right.
<matttbe> do we have to add some tag?
<matttbe> s
<persia> And the sponsor should be assigning themselves when they claim it, so you will get bugmail saying that something is happening.
<persia> Nope.  No tags requied.
<matttbe> great :)
<Laney> good reminder
 * Laney does some sponsoring
<matttbe> :)
 * persia gets sick of watching bzr download at 20KB/s and does it the old way
<Laney> wait
<YokoZar> persia: Wine upstream's sound guy commented on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openal-soft/+bug/565071
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565071 in openal-soft "[lucid] Freeze Exception Request: OpenAL minor version bump" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> what are the semantics of the ubuntu branches request on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~voronov84/ubuntu/lucid/ubuntu-dev-tools/lucid/+merge/23577 ?
<matttbe> Do we need to add subscribers? SRU Verification, ubuntu-sru, etc. ?
<Laney> Does it mean "Uploaded to Ubuntu?"
<persia> matttbe: A merge proposal should automatically appear in the sponsors report.  You can also subscribe ubuntu-sponsors if you attached a debdiff.  We're currently supporting two workflows.
<YokoZar> persia: I want to SRU wine 1.2 when it fully releases in about 2 months to Lucid.  So we either put OpenAL 1.12 in now or do it then  (and in the meantime I bundle openal 1.12 in the wine ppa and test it there)
<persia> (because some people find bzr easier to use, and some people like http being 100x faster)
<Laney> should we be cherrypicking important fixes now?
<persia> YokoZar: Thanks for getting the testcase: I'm completely satisfied (but I'm not on the release team, so you need someone else's ACK)
<persia> Laney: We're only allowed to upload bugfix stuff now: cherrypicking may be the easiest way to do that.
<Laney> persia: I mean scanning the sponsoring list for "important" bug fixes
<Laney> (the sponsoring overview page doesn't make this easy)
<persia> Laney: If you like.  Alternately, just go through all of it, and milestone some of it for ubuntu-later
<Laney> I don't know what that milestone does, but alright
<persia> I think it means we'll do it later (post-release).
<persia> I may be mistaken.
<persia> But obviosly, pick the important stuff first (but don't fuss too much about it if it's good bugfixes)
<persia> Grrr!!!  bzr is painfully slow, and LP is giving me 502s trying to make LP use bzr locally and give me diffs over http.
<Laney> I'm lost
<Laney> how can I subscribe to a merge request so that I can ask the submitter a question?
 * persia has no idea, and just comments in bugs
<matttbe> persia: do you want that I add a diff a both branch?
<Laney> I'm so out of touch with this stuff.
<Laney> Just clicked through to the bug after asking if it should be deferred and it looks like the package has been uploaded already.
<persia> matttbe: No, I'll work around it.  Thanks for the offer.
<Laney> but the merge proposal is still pending
 * persia routinely fights with LP, but is generally quiet about it, but 100x was too much to take today (2MB/s vs. 20KB/s)
<Laney> persia: It's the libticalcs stuff that it seems you looked at. These merge requests can be close out, right?
<persia> Laney: Then just mark it merged.
<Laney> I thought it was supposed to be automatic, hence the confusion
<persia> Laney: I haven't looked at them in a really long time, and I'm not sure.
<Laney> ok then
<persia> I thought it was all automatic, and I wonder if kamalm submitted additional changes.
<persia> Based on what I see of merge proposal management in other projects in LP, I have the impression that updating a branch on which there is an active merge proposal ends up updating the merge proposal, so if someone doesn't purge all their branches regularly and give them new names, and the merge proposals aren't cleared regularly, there may be confusion.
<geser> Laney: merge proposol get auto marged "merged" when you push the (packaging) branch back to LP, an upload alone does only update the (packaging) branch but doesn't update the pending merges (the upload doesn't contain any info about done merges)
<persia> (note that I really like how merge proposals work in projects in LP: I just don't understand how they work in Ubuntu)
<Laney> geser: So the uploader didn't push back to lp?
<geser> if the MP is still pending, then yes
<Laney> ok then
<persia> Oh :(  Then I'm probably breaking it by not waiting for bzr
<geser> I usually do "bzr bd -S", test-build, "bzr mark-uploaded", "bzr push", "dput"
<Laney> yeah, that's the workflow
<Laney> I usually forget the tag though
<persia> Someone else want 568083 then?
 * persia is unwilling to download 59MB at 20KB/s
<Laney> I'll see how fast it downloads
<persia> Laney: If it's slow for you, I have all the code locally, and can process it easily, just not with bzr.
<Laney> bzr init-repo is the trick to make it share state isn't it?
<matttbe> persia: sure that you don't want the (bzr) diff :) ?
<geser> Laney: yes
<persia> matttbe: I have the diff already.
<matttbe> ok great
<persia> matttbe: https://code.launchpad.net/~cairo-dock-team/cairo-dock-core/ubuntu/+merge/23889/+preview-diff/+files/preview.diff is an example diff URL.
<persia> What I lack is the bzr metadata.
<Laney> persia: It's fast here; I'll take it
<geser> Laney: re subscribing to MP: have you tried to add yourself as reviewer?
<persia> Laney: Thanks.
<Laney> geser: No (it's not clear that that's what it does)
<Laney> should "bzr diff ../branchtomerge/" work?
<geser> no, that would show the diff for the file "../branchtomerge"
<Laney> can I do it like that?
<geser> what diff do you want?
<Laney> between the branch I'm on and the branch I am about to merge
<Laney> or do I just merge it and then check from there?
<geser> either that or as branchtomerge should have a common accestor with the branch you are on: bzr diff -r123
<Laney> yeah I thought it would be able to figure that out
<geser> perhaps "bzr diff --old a --new b" works too
<Laney> bzr diff lp:... would have worked I think
<geser> that works too
<Laney> which isn't too different to ../someotherbranch
<geser> if you do this often, you could branch lp:... and do "bzr diff --old ../lpbranch" to save network traffic
<Laney> I usually branch the thing that needs sponsoring and the packaging branch
<geser> me too, in that case bzr diff --old ... should work
<Laney> from which branch?
<geser> "cd sponsorbranch; bzr diff --old ../pkgbranch" or "cd pkgbranch; bzr diff --new ../sponsorbranch" (although I only use the 1st and never tried the 2nd)
<Laney> alright
<Laney> will try it in a minuet
<persia> geser: Do you know if there's a good way to make https://code.launchpad.net/~voronov84/ubuntu/lucid/ubuntu-dev-tools/lucid/+merge/23577 go away?
<Laney> Do we care about not-binnmuable-all-depends-any?
<persia> Ah, Laney appears to have already fixed it.
<persia> Laney: Not enough to upload to Lucid at this point.
<Laney> persia: I don't know, I think maybe that should stay open until the package is uploaded
<persia> Laney: That makes sense.
<Laney> persia: but you could push to the lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-dev-tools branch to make it go away
<persia> Well, except that I merged in on top of DktrKranz's stuff, which wasn't there and doesn't share revision history.
<ajmitch> surely there'd be some shared history that'd be used as an ancestor?
<persia> ajmitch: None whatsoever.
<persia> ajmitch: Because the one branch is where we've always done work and the other is constructed based on the history of uploads.
<ajmitch> how annoying
<ajmitch> and you get file conflicts when trying to merge, I suppose?
<persia> No, you can't merge.
<persia> "No common ancestor" error.
<ajmitch> not without some forced hackery, I think
<ajmitch> at which point you'd probably run into those conflicts
<persia> To my knowledge, bzr has no file-content-comparison merge feature directly.
<persia> Given a common ancestor, you can init a bzr branch on the common ancestor, branch that branch, apply monolithic patches to both sides, and then use bzr merge to reconnect.
<persia> This is annoying, but works nicely, if you like how bzr merges.
 * persia doesn't happen to like bzr merge at all, but mostly because of the format of the conflict markers, rather than anything about how the algorithms work
<ajmitch> merging with no common ancestor is done against revision 0..-1 or similar, I think
<persia> When I tried it, bzr gave me an error, so I constructed a series of patches that did the right things, and applied those with interim commits.
<persia> Someone with more patience or less joy in building patch series may have better luck.
<ajmitch> much patience is required at times, I think
 * persia will eventually be assimilated
 * micahg gave up on bzr merge for archive merges after it didn't delete files properly
<Laney> oh, bah, I forgot to do merge-package again
<Laney> I hope there's not much difference between merge and merge-package
<persia> I think merge-package is upstream tarball aware or something.
<ajmitch> persia: I've been stuck in my old-fashioned ways of not using bzr for package branches
<persia> ajmitch: Then you too, will someday, be assimilated.
<YokoZar> ScottK: what's this about Wine being a part of Ubuntu studio seeds?  I can't see any rdepends for it anywhere
<persia> I actually like using bzr and debcommit for native packages in bzr (e.g. u-d-t, installer stuff, etc.)
<persia> YokoZar: Because of the VST plugins.
<YokoZar> persia: you mean the ones that don't build at all at the moment because we're waiting on the Wine update?
<persia> YokoZar: RC will be out *really soon now*
<persia> YokoZar: Yeah, but we're not going to get enough testers to handle a DVD respin in time for RC.
<Laney> matttbe: Uploading cairo-dock
<Laney> thanks for your work
<Laney> (please fix that lintian error for the next upload)
<matttbe> many thanks Laney !
<matttbe> Laney: which lintian error?
<YokoZar> persia: what I mean is as I understand it ScottK waited on my wine1.2 package update because of ubuntu-studio, but I needed to do that update (and then another wine one) in order to prevent the VST FTBFS
<Laney> the one about it not being binNMUable
<Laney> matttbe: run lintian -i blah.dsc and you'll see it
<matttbe> ok
<YokoZar> persia: so it's a mystery to me how the Ubuntu Studio image is being built at all if it actually depends on it
<persia> YokoZar: Right, so in fact the piece that was affeted was completely broken.  That said, it's not critical enough to respin the images and make the testers test again.
<matttbe> Laney: don't forget 'cairo-dock-plug-ins' ;)
<Laney> surely not, I'm looking at that one now
<persia> YokoZar: It fails to include that bit, which is a bug.
<matttbe> Laney: great! thank you very much :)
<YokoZar> persia: ok, makes sense.  I'm just a bit uneased that I didn't notice this problem before, and we're pretty much at the last possible moment here
 * YokoZar should start using Ubuntu Studio...
<persia> YokoZar: No point  reinstailing: the main bit you'd notice is the VST stuff: if you have *some* VST host, you'll encounter the entirety of the bugs.
<Laney> matttbe: Are the plugin dependencies on cairo-dock-dev tight enough?
<persia> But the upload can surely happen as soon as RC is released.  It's just that if it happens now, and the images are respun, they won7t get tested, and there will be no US RC.
<Laney> it says that they will work on any future version of cairo-dock-dev
<matttbe> Laney: you have to compile CD-plug-ins with the same version of CD (core)
<Laney> matttbe: yeah, that's not what the build-dependency says
<matttbe> cairo-dock-dev (>= 2.1.3-9)
<Laney> that would be satisfied by any future version
<Laney> do you need a << too?
<matttbe> Laney: should it be cairo-dock-dev (= ${source:Version}) ?
<Laney> nope, as they could be different
<Laney> should that be -10-lucid anyway?
<matttbe> yes
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-22
<matttbe> but it's not a problem to have (>= 2.1.3-9) :)
<Laney> anyway I won't insist on that change
<Laney> but I think you might want cairo-dock-dev (<< 2.1.3-10-lucid.1~) too
<matttbe> mmh, yes maybe you're right
 * persia gets a little disturbed by the packaging message "warning: using ubuntu without xulrunner-dev.  we reccomend installing it" : that at least deserves some attribution definining "we".
<micahg> persia: which package?
<persia> micahg: I got the message building mongodb source.  I'm unsure which package generates it.
<micahg> persia: k, seems weird
<persia> At least surprising.
 * jdong scratches head at http://i.imgur.com/fWsQv.png
<persia> jdong: Why is this confusing?
<jdong> persia: trying to figure out what usecase this is for.
<persia> People giving presentations.
<jdong> I've always moaned about the usefulness of OOo Impress vs Powerpoint
<jdong> but this seems like a step in the opposite direction
<jdong> maybe I'm being too critical on version 0.1
<persia> jdong: 1) you're being critical on version 0.1 2) lots of folks don't need fancy stuff (like me), and prefer to just have a few lines of text with a fairly standard background.
<persia> That said, consider abiword, gnumeric, etc.
<Laney> S5 is pretty good for simple presentations
<jdong> I totally support (2), but I don't think (2) involves removing features from a more powerful presentation tool
<persia> (and hey, if people want to do stuff, and they enjoy it, let'm do it: maybe something wonderful will happen)
<jdong> I agree with the latter
<persia> jdong: Based on racarr's blog entries, I think it's a matter of only having completed the framework and now adding features, rather than stripping an existing tool.
<jdong> persia: *nods* I'm just a bit bitter from my experiences using Powerpoint vs OOo impress to put together simple presentations....
<jdong> counterintuitively, I found PowerPoint much easier to use in that I spent less time wrestling with the tool
<jdong> nice touches like automatically transforming bulleted lists (outlines) into flowchart graphics
<persia> jdong: You could always use tex
<jdong> persia: yup, that's typically been what I've done -- except the TeX slide-making software suffers from the general problem with TeX in my experience -- god forbid you actually want to tweak an existing style/template
<persia> Of course you don't.  Clearly, you want to write your own :)
<jdong> hehehe that actually does sound like fun
 * persia used to love TeX and is now somewhat happier to admire it's glory from afar
<jdong> *nods* :)
<persia> But *no* other tool I've ever seen lets you do what TeX lets you do.
<Laney> TeX is bigger and more muscly than you: fight it at your considerable peril
<persia> Indeed, but if you can make freinds...
<jdong> I still love TeX a lot
<persia> May you continue to do so for many years
<jdong> I sure hope so :)
<Laney> erm
 * Laney spies a lot of dpkg-shlibdeps warnings
<persia> The key to continuing to get along is to never end up not using it for a protracted period.  Relearning TeX is harder than learning it the first time.
<Laney> matttbe: cairo-dock doesn't seem very multi monitor aware :(
<Laney> (uploading the plugins)
<matttbe> matttbe: of course yes :) it depends of what you have set in Position
<matttbe> with xinerama (Advanced mode)
<Laney> I'm just talking about the first launch
<matttbe> mmh yes, it's maybe better to enable xinerama and set the monitor 0 by default?
<Laney> I wouldn't know what the potential implications of that are ;)
<matttbe> :) in fact, no developer has a dual monitor :)
<matttbe> so when there is a bug, it's hard to fix it :)
<Laney> is there any reason why ${shlibs:Depends} isn't on the integration package?
<matttbe> no problem for me except with libGL.so because I've installed nvidia drivers from nvidia website
<Laney> shouldn't be a problem
<Laney> I'm going to add it and upload
<matttbe> no !
<matttbe> sorry, I'm tired :)
<fabounet> integration package doesn't require the dependencies
<matttbe> thanks fabounet :)
<fabounet> they are not loaded if the librarires is not present on the user's system
<fabounet> this is because
<fabounet> they are plug-ins to bind the dock with the Desktop Environment
<fabounet> like GVFS, KIO, Thunar-VFS
<matttbe> Laney: so do not add it :)
<persia> I thought we recommended against xinerama setups these days.
<matttbe> Laney: this is the reason that I've split integration plug-ins
<matttbe> fabounet: what do you think of (01:43:15) matttbe: mmh yes, it's maybe better to enable xinerama and set the monitor 0 by default?
<matttbe> ok
<fabounet> the correct plug-in is loaded according to your system, the others are ignored
<Laney> ok
<Laney> I'm not sure this is a clean solution, but it's what we already have
<fabounet> well for now it's just a matter of enabling the option in the config panel, it's 1 click
<fabounet> it could be done by default if we think it's definitey better to have the dock on one screen than on the middle of two screens
<fabounet> I can't say since I don't have dual screen ^^
<matttbe> but it's not useful on the middle of two screens :)
<Laney> are we going to start using the debian packages?
<matttbe> thank you for the upload Laney !
<Laney> no worries
<Laney> I hope that in the future we can sync the packages from Debian
<Laney> so please try to work with the packaging team there
<matttbe> Laney: mmh, I don't know because we had many problem with the debian packagers :) . Deb packages are already done but he want to rebuild it
<matttbe> but yes, I will try to do that
<fabounet> they have quite a particular view of the packaging, like splitting the plug-is package into 30 packages (1 for each plug-in)
<Laney> that's not so unusual really
<Laney> it makes sense in the context of a package manager too
<matttbe> but he has split all plug-ins into different packages, I don't know if it was for the fun or not but it's harder to manage
<matttbe> it can be good but he only split the binaries and not the data...
<matttbe> yes, of course
<Laney> that's the approach I'd favour to be honest
<Laney> but alas, it's time for bed
<Laney> goodnight
<fabounet> I don't like this way for many reasons, but the packager has accepted to make a meta-package that group all the packages in 1, so this is a good solution I think
<matttbe> thank you Laney and good night
<Laney> (yes, having a metapackage is also common and a good idea)
<Laney> (breadth + depth)
<Laney> byeee
<fabounet> thanks, good night
<carstenh> matttbe: he needs to build every package he uploads himself for (i hope) obvious reasons.
<matttbe> carstenh: yes I understand, it's obviously!
<matttbe> carstenh: do you know what we have to do now? Just waiting?
<carstenh> matttbe: I don't know what you want to achieve
<carstenh> and I didn't read the whole backlog
<matttbe> :) we want to update two packages in Lucid
<matttbe> to fixed a annoying crash
<carstenh> sorry, no idea. someone with upload permissions needs to upload it but I don't know what the recommended way to find a sponsor/uploader is.
<matttbe> ok, I'll be back tomorrow!
<carstenh> oh, and I hope you talked about he wanted running dpkg-buildpackage himself, recreating the packaging is useless
<persia> matttbe: Didn't Laney just sponsor your stuff?
<matttbe> persia: he has merged my branch into lp:ubuntu/cairo-dock (and plug-ins)
<matttbe> so I suppose he did the job
<persia> I beleive he merged and uploaded.
<matttbe> persia: so what we have to do now? just waiting?
<persia> matttbe: Yep.  You can see the uploads at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
<persia> Now you're waiting for an archive admin to approve them.
<persia> This isn't likely to happen prior to the RC release.
<persia> (which is on the 22nd: today for some, tomorrow for others)
<matttbe> oh great ! Thank you for your help persia
<persia> matttbe: No problem.  Just remember the procedure we went through at the beginning.  That ought get you sponsored when you need it in the future.
<matttbe> yes, ok!
<matttbe> just another question: when do you go to sleep persia :) ? If I remember well, you lives in Japan
<persia> It's 9:30 am here, so it's a normal time to be awake.
<matttbe> ah ok :)
<persia> That said, I'm not particularly diurnal, so there's no good answer to the question.
<matttbe> :P
<ScottK> YokoZar: It's part of the ubuntustudio packageset.  I didn't go so far as to check the seeds.  Let me look into it.
<YokoZar> ScottK: persia clarified
 * ajmitch didn't think that persia actually slept
<ScottK> What was rhe result of the clarification?
<YokoZar> ScottK: it's a build-depend of the package that was FTBFS earlier
 * ScottK only skimmed 20 hours of backscroll
<ScottK> So is it urgent to get in and does ubuntustudio care?
<persia> No and yes.
<persia> It would be lovely to get it in just *after* RC release.
<persia> As most commercial plugins use VST, which is the bit that FTBFS.
<YokoZar> ScottK: dssi-vst  is part of ubuntustudio-audio and is FTBFS because of the wine stuff
<persia> But images wouldn't be tested if there was a respin now.
<YokoZar> Well we could update Wine1.2 and Wine but not dssi-vst and that woulnd't cause a respin would it?
<YokoZar> Either way I suppose it's best to just wait after RC
<persia> library dependencies ...
<ScottK> Thank you.
<ScottK> Is wine-1.2 a run time depends or just build-time?
<persia> That's my thought.
 * persia checks
<YokoZar> ScottK: wine1.2 or wine can satisfy runtime depends, but wine 1.0 is needed as build dependency, and wine1.0 currently has no binary packages because the dummy packages in wine1.2 (which my upload removes) were overriding them
<persia> Depends: libwine
<persia> so runtime
<YokoZar> persia: I'll also need to do an update of dssi-vst as well
<YokoZar> persia: that's basically a rename in the control file and rebuild
<ScottK> Then I either need the appropriate Ubuntu Studio person to say they want to respin for this (and get slangasek to agree to do it) or it needs to wait
<YokoZar> yeah have it wait
<persia> waiting sounds easier to me
<persia> I'm confident that Ubuntu Studio testers won't be able to run through the tests again if there is a respin.
<persia> (although I'm not the appropriate person)
<slangasek> slangasek would strongly counsel the Ubuntu Studio people not to do a respin at this stage
<ScottK> That's what I figured it added up to.
<ScottK> But I was also 10 hours in meetings today with 2 1/2 hours of driving on each end, so my level of focus is not ideal.
<ScottL> I agree with persia, we struggle to get Ubuntu Studio images tested once, twice probably would not happen
 * persia suspects ScottL might qualify as the appropriate person
 * TheMuso doesn't think we should respin.
<micahg> ScottK: ping
<ScottK> micahg: Pong
<micahg> ScottK: hi, I just realized I forgot about a package in universe that might need to be upgraded, but I wanted your opinion
<ScottK> OK
<micahg> ScottK: mantis is currently at 1.1.8 and 1.2 was released about a month ago
<micahg> ScottK: 1.2 has a lot of new stuff and no more releases are planned for 1.1.x
<ScottK> Unless the release is known to fix important bugs/the current one is badly broken, it's probably better to wait and backport from maverick.
<micahg> ScottK: but there are DB changes between the releases so it's not a simple upgrade
<ScottK> Even better reason to wait.
<micahg> ScottK: ah, ok, didn't know that was a good option, ok, I'd prefer to do that actually
<ScottK> micahg: I'm glad you pinged.  I wanted to discuss your libjdic-java upload with you.
<micahg> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> Due to the xulrunner specific bit in debian/rules, the package needs updating each time the xulrunner version changes, right?
<micahg> ScottK: each major version change, not minor I hope
<ScottK> Wouldn't in make more sense to build-depend on the versioned xulrunner directly?  Then all the archive management tools we have would catch this as a package that needed attention.
<ScottK> As you have it now, it can sliently become unbuildable if xulrunner-dev starts pointing at a new version.
<micahg> ah, you're saying build on xul-192-dev instead of xulrunner-dev
<ScottK> Yes
<micahg> ScottK: makes sense
<micahg> ScottK: do you want to reject the upload and I'll make that change
<ScottK> micahg: I'll reject the current upload and you can reuse the same version number.
<micahg> ScottK: great, I'll have chrisccoulson upload the new version tomrorow
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Done
<micahg> the new version from Debian actually FTBFSs, so that's why we kept this version
 * ajmitch obviously needs to do more to keep the queue busy
<ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.  Please.
<ScottK> micahg: Keeping the version that builds is great.
<micahg> ScottK: I promised to fix it for the next release :)
<ajmitch> it's the same upstream version though?
<micahg> ajmitch: yes
 * ajmitch was wondering why you hadn't merged in the other 3 debian revisions there
<micahg> ajmitch: I just started handling the xul rdepends :)
<ajmitch> brave
<micahg> ajmitch: hopefully the bravery will be enough to let me be a MOTU :)
<ScottK> You've got to survive the bravery first.
 * micahg wonders if he should start fishing for testimonials...
<ScottK> That's always the tricky bit with being brave.
<ScottK> micahg: IME sponsors will start to tell you when they think you're ready.
<micahg> ScottK: ah, yes, I've heard that
<ScottK> When you're really ready they make the application for you, but AFAIK that's only happened once and it was for core-dev.
<micahg> I've gotten better, the first several uploads, it took me 4 or 5 debdiffs before I had it right, now it's usually one or 2
<ScottK> That's good.
<ScottK> Another good sign is when people start being suprised you aren't a MOTU already.
 * micahg should be patient
<micahg> ajmitch: libjdic patch is attached to the bug if you want to sponsor :)
<micahg> wgrant: ping
<imbrandon> evening peeps
<DktrKranz> persia: original branch is lp:~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/syncpackage
<wgrant> micahg: Hi.
<micahg> wgrant: hi
<micahg> wgrant: I was wondering if I can request a xulrunner rdepends category for the multidistrotools
<micahg> wgrant: for next cycle
<wgrant> micahg: Not much seems to depend on xulrunner itself -- do you want xulrunner-1.9.2?
<micahg> wgrant: yes, the binary and build rdepends on xulrunner-1.9.2, xulrunner-dev, or xulrunner-1.9.2-dev would be great
<micahg> wgrant: also any xul-ext* binaries would be great too
<micahg> wgrant: or rather their sources
<micahg> wgrant: would it help if I give you wiki pages with the source pkg names?
<wgrant> micahg: If there's a list that's kept up to date, I can scrape that.
<wgrant> Otherwise I'll work out the rbuilddepends stuff.
<micahg> wgrant: I don't know if it'll be kept up to date
<dholbach> good morning
<matttbe> Hey guys!
<matttbe> there was a problem with the compilation of the new version of Cairo-Dock https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo-dock-plug-ins/+bug/568083
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568083 in cairo-dock-plug-ins "Please update Cairo-Dock to v2.1.3-10" [Undecided,Fix released]
<matttbe> I see in the buildlog that plug-ins have been compiled with the 'old' version of cairo-dock-core and cairo-dock-dev (the API) (2.1.3-6) and not with the new version as core (2.1.3-10-lucid).
<matttbe> I've added a restriction (cairo-dock-dev (>= 2.1.3-9)) but it has downloaded the old version (Get:160 http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu/  lucid/universe cairo-dock-dev 2.1.3-6-0ubuntu1 [106kB])
<matttbe> So the package needs to be re-compiled
<matttbe> without any changes
<matttbe> what can I do?
<c_korn> is this warning also true for upstart jobs ? http://pastebin.com/DjeLRJEf
<hyperair> upstart jobs are in /etc/init/blah.conf
<hyperair> not in /etc/init.d/blah
<slangasek> c_korn: it's a bug in lintian to show that warning for upstart jobs; the current lintian in lucid isn't supposed to show that warning for upstart jobs
 * hyperair wonders why debian doesn't switch to upstart. it seems to be really awesome.
<c_korn> hm, there is just a file "upstart" in the debian directory. so it gets installed to the wrong directory ?
<c_korn> (the debian/rules uses cdbs)
<hyperair> man dh_installinit
<hyperair> cdbs should also call it
<slangasek> hyperair: because upstart doesn't support non-Linux kernels
<slangasek> c_korn: what version of lintian are you using?
<hyperair> slangasek: oh =(
<hyperair> slangasek: why not?
<slangasek> hyperair: because it relies on lots of cutting-edge (non-standard) Linux kernel features to do its job
<hyperair> slangasek: ah i see.
<c_korn> slangasek: 2.3.4ubuntu2
<slangasek> c_korn: link to the package?
<slangasek> (the wiican package)
<c_korn> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/wiican-1001021618/wiican-0.2.1/debian/
<c_korn> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wiican
<Anasule> Hello, anyone here who works on the evtouch package?
<slangasek> c_korn: aaah, why in the world is that device mode 0666?
<slangasek> c_korn: ok, double-checking here, it seems that the lintian check is still buggy
<slangasek> c_korn: lintian should not warn about missing rc?.d symlinks for upstart jobs, because the /etc/init.d/ script is just a compatibility wrapper
<slangasek> c_korn: btw, 'invoke-rc.d udev restart' in the postinst is wrong; you should be calling udevadm trigger --subsystem-match=<foo> --action=change
<c_korn> lrwxrwxrwx root/root         0 2010-04-22 11:32 ./etc/init.d/wiican -> /lib/init/upstart-job
<slangasek> yes
<Anasule> If i want to get a touch screen added to the evtouch package whats the best way of doing it please?
<juli_> Hi everybody! There is a high importance bug in netbeans package. Should I follow a SRU to fix it or there is a chance to get an approval from motu-release and upload as an exception?
<ScottK> juli_: We are still accepting bug fixes.
<ScottK> So I'd suggest try to get it in for release.  It will be easy enough to retarget to an SRU if it doesn't make it.
<juli_> ScottK, thanks! so I should create a debdiff for a fix and ask an exception ... where?
<ScottK> juli_: If it's just a bugfix you don't need to ask the release team, just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors.
<juli_> actually I have rights for upload of netbeans package.. but I thought it is a freeze
<ScottK> juli_: There is, but the releae team will review it in the queue after upload.
<ScottK> Formal FFe is only needed for new features.
<ScottK> At this point we just review everything.
<juli_> ScottK, so for me it is the same upload as usually, right?
<Laney> matttbe: You should find out why the versioned BD didn't work and then ask for it to be uploaded again
<matttbe> Hello, the latest version of Cairo-Dock-Plug-Ins has not been compiled with the right version of Cairo-Dock. I've reported the bug, the branch and the patch there : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo-dock-plug-ins/+bug/568083
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 568083 in cairo-dock-plug-ins "Please update Cairo-Dock to v2.1.3-10" [High,Confirmed]
<ScottK> juli_: Yes.  Please just be sure to explain yourself well in debian/changelog
<juli_> ScottK, ok, thank you a lot!
<ScottK> juli_: ping me after you upload and I'll look right away.
<matttbe> Laney: I see in the buildlog that plug-ins have been compiled with the 'old' version (2.1.3-6) and not with the new version as core (2.1.3-10-lucid). I've added a restriction (cairo-dock-dev (>= 2.1.3-9)) but it has downloaded the old version (Get:160 http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu/ lucid/universe cairo-dock-dev 2.1.3-6-0ubuntu1 [106kB])  So the package needs to be re-compiled
<juli_> ScottK, ok
<Laney> matttbe: yes, but *why* didn't the version constraint work?
<Laney> shouldn't this be enforced in the upstream configure script as well?
<matttbe> I don't know... maybe a bug with the builder
<Laney> no, I doubt that
<matttbe> :)
<Laney> laney@pheasant> dpkg --compare-versions 2.1.3-6-0ubuntu1 ge 2.1.3-9 && echo yes                                                                           ~
<Laney> yes
<Laney> see
<Laney> it's the version constraing that is broken
<ScottK> In any case a new upload will solve it and please do so soon, I'd like to get as much Universe stuff in now before the Main post-RC changes take the builders
<didrocks> ScottK: hey, should we still ping an archive admin for sync req or use pitti's script?
<matttbe> Laney: yes but there is an restriction...
<Laney> I know, but I'm saying that is is *not working*
<matttbe> yes I see
<Laney> probably because of the - in the upstream version, but I'm not sure
<Laney> anyway I'll upload the rebuild
<matttbe> Laney: I've post a tiny patch
<Laney> that doesn't fix the issue, but it should be alright anyway as the new cairo-dock has been published now
<matttbe> Laney: with the previous version (2.1.3-6) this restriction worked: it failed for some arch because the version of cairo-dock-dev wasn't >= 2.1.3-6
<Laney> it works if you put a - at the end
<Laney> I'll do that
<Laney> (but it would be easiest if you just used . in your versions)
<matttbe> Laney: ok I see
<matttbe> Laney: BTW thank you for you help and sorry for the problem :)
<Laney> these things happen ;)
<Laney> Is it safe to push a packaging branch which I merged using import-dsc?
<Laney> as in, the importer hadn't caught up with Debian
<ScottK> Laney: If you don't upload now, you  may miss the pre-RC window.
<ScottK> juli_: ^^^
<ScottK> I'm about to be away for a while and I don't know exactly when it will come out.
<Laney> ScottK: test building
<ScottK> OK.
<Laney> I can upload without doing that if you want
<ScottK> Go ahead and upload and then once you're done ping me it's OK to accept.
<ScottK> If it doesn't go well it's easy enough to reject.
<Laney> ok
<juli_> ScottK, I've just uploaded... hope it is not too late
<ScottK> Shouldn't be.
<Zombie> Greetings.
<Laney> ScottK: seems good, please accept
<juli_> ScottK, I also attached debdiff to a bug in case if you want to see the changes
<Laney> ScottK: I'm also uploading a merge of pandoc
<Laney> to fix FTBFS on sparc and armel
<ScottK> OK.
<juli_> ScottK, thank you!
<Laney> I'm not getting any mail from soyuz about the pandoc upload
<Laney> oh, but it is in the queue
<Zombie> ScottK: Can we discuss hardware issues?
<didrocks> ScottK: can you accept glabels please? I've updated to the new version in Debian and synced in Ubuntu. It fixes an issue with new glib: you can now add items to your label instead of having a segfault :)
<sebner> huhu RainCT
<RainCT> Hey sebner
<kreuter> persia: are you around?
<ScottK> directhex: I adid accept it.
<ScottK> Zombie: I'm reasonably certain I'm not the right person to talk to.
<ScottK> directhex: Sorry, that wasn't meant for you.
<directhex> moo?
<ScottK> It was meant for didrocks and since he's not here, you got the tab complete.
<didrocks> ScottK: I'm there :)
<didrocks> ScottK: but if you are using weechat, there is some weird tab complete with it at least
<ScottK> didrocks.  Odd, my client doesn't show you.
<didrocks> ScottK: oh?
<didrocks> ScottK: well, in any case, thanks for accepting it :)
<ScottK> You neither show up in the user list nor are available for tab complete.
<didrocks> ScottK: which client are you using?
<ScottK> didrocks: We are still processing sync requests, so you could have filed it as a normal one, FYI.
<ScottK> didrocks Quassl
<ScottK> ...sl/sel
<didrocks> ScottK: ok, I wasn't sure about using pitti's script or not. I'll file new one if needed as normal
<didrocks> well, I'll ask to nijaba, he is using the same client
<didrocks> others seems to see me
<didrocks> don't know if bip proxy is putting a weird property on the server side :/
<ScottK> YokoZar: wine1.2 is accepted once it's built/published on the archs it build on, feel free to upload whatever it was that need to come after it.
<persia> kreuter: Am now.  Fiddling with diffs.
<kreuter> persia: great.  let me know if anything doesn't make sense.
<micahg> ScottK: there is a bug-fix/security update for vlc today, can we still take that, or do we need to wait for SRU, only non-bug fixes are translation updates
<persia> kreuter: Not so far, although some of the diffs didn't apply cleanly to the package: it's more a matter of getting distracted in the middle.
<ScottK> micahg: If it can be built/tested by ~Sunday we can probably take it.
<ScottK> It shuld have testing beyond "it builds"
<ScottK> u/ou
<micahg> ScottK: I'll see what I can do, thanks
<micahg> if I get lucky, it'll get into Debian before then :)
<persia> micahg: Is there any reason that Build-Depends: and Depends: xulunner-dev should cause issues?  Some other patches are required for xulrunner-1.9.2-dev, but I'm wondering how tight to set build-deps/deps
<micahg> persia: for which package?
<persia> micahg: bug #557024
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557024 in mongodb "mongo / mongod as packaged can't load libmozjs.so" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557024
<persia> The patch doesn't apply, so I'm pulling out bits.
<kreuter> persia: I'm sorry, should I generate another patch?
<micahg> persia: how are you doing mozjs?  I made a wrapper for another app
<kreuter> I might have taken that diff against our upstream master, not 1.2.x.
<micahg> persia: it seems that if you're using xulrunner-1.9.2 script to get the GRE/dir then you should directly depend on the appropriate dev package
<persia> micahg: Is that best practice, or is there another way kreuter should do it?
<micahg> persia: it's best practice for now AFAIK ( I assume you're talking about mozjs)
<persia> micahg: Yep.  OK.  Thanks.
<micahg> persia: here's what I did for edbrowse: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43565621/edbrowse_3.4.1-1_3.4.1-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<persia> kreuter: No worries: it's close enough: I just wanted to also check that it's right.
 * micahg wonders how we missed that
<persia> micahg: Right.  Thanks.
<persia> micahg: For future note, kreuter is upstream+Debian maintainer, so if you run into issues with mongodb in the future, he can probably make sure we don't need much divergence.
<kreuter> I'm not the debian maintainer.
<kreuter> Antonin Kral is.
<persia> kreuter: You're not?  You're listed as "Maintainer" in the diff in the bug.
<micahg> persia: I'll subscribe myself to the package in case there are xul issues
<kreuter> persia: that's because we (10gen) make debian packages too, and so we need something there in the upstream control file.
<persia> Ah, it all makes sense now.
<persia> micahg: Cool.  Thanks.
<kreuter> micahg: AFAIK, there are no xulrunner issues, just that 1.9.1 got deprecated very recently.
<micahg> kreuter: we dropped it from Lucid
<micahg> kreuter: in ubuntu we havn't had mozjs since xulrunner-1.8 though
<Laney> matttbe: is the package alright now?
<ari-tczew> does cdbs require a series file?
<geser> ari-tczew: the simple cdbs patch system? no, it applies them in lexicographic order (series is part of quilt)
<ari-tczew> thanks!
<persia> Note that many CDBS packages use quilt.
<geser> but you can use cdbs (the packaging style) with quilt
<ari-tczew> I'm checking patch system by $ what-patch
<geser> then cdbs is the "simple-patch" patching system from cdbs
<samgee> I'm trying to make some sense of apt/repo terminology. It seems that debian and ubuntu use suite and codename differently. Is there any glossary explaining this stuff?
<persia> samgee: How do you find them different?  I don't pretend a perfect understanding, but I thought the terminology was the same.
<samgee> persia, I read somewhere that debian uses codename as the development codename and when it releases it should be known by its suite name (stable, testing, ...). Ubuntu seems to use codename for the whole release (hardy) and suite for the "sub-releases" (hardy-updates).
<persia> Ah, OK.
<persia> So codename/release name is handled the same.
<persia> So, Debian lenny became Debian 5.0 on release, and Ubuntu karmic became Ubuntu 9.10 on release.
<samgee> well, that's yet another way of looking at it
<persia> The difference in suite handling exists: Ubuntu has spearate suites for updates, whereas debian has -proposed-updates which get folded into the release directly.
<geser> samgee: I know only of the LP API documentation, and it's also mentioned on the +queue pages (and probably others)
<persia> samgee: And if this doesn't make it clear: you really don't need to know the answers to use the tools :)
<samgee> persia, I know, but I'm working on a script to handle a repo and I'd like it be understandable by everybody, so I want to use the common terms
<persia> Ah, this makes more sense.  You might look at some other scripts (falcon, reprepro, launchpad, dak, mini-dinstall, etc.) to see if you can crib from there.
<samgee> I've looked at some python-apt source code and other code/docs. There seems to be a lot of confusion about it.
<samgee> searching web for ubuntu+codename+suite+pocket doesn't give much useful results. There's lots of stuff you can apparently stick in your pocket, though. :)
<carstenh> samgee: in debian dak (from an external view, internal things are more complicated), the tool that does everything that is related to the archive, decides to which "suite" it moves your package depending on the changelog entry, though there are exceptions, e.g. there is no stable-security subdirecctory under dists.
<carstenh> samgee: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/pkgs.html#distribution
<samgee> carstenh, that's more of an explanation about what it's for. I'm looking for a simple explanation about what it is.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: I have a bug fix for sbuild, is universe frozen now? Can I upload it?
<ScottK> mdeslaur: Upload away
<mdeslaur> thanks ScottK
<carstenh> samgee: oldstable is the former release, stable is the current release, testing is the next release, unstable contains packages that move to testing when there are no problems with them after normally 10 days, experimental contains experimental stuff that is not ready for unstable, *-proposed-updates are packages that are proposed by a debian developer for inclusion in the distribution, which release manager decide
<carstenh> samgee: but i guess i still don't understand your question :)
<carstenh> (and the releasenames are symlinks pointing to oldstable, stable and so on, changing these is called releasing ;))
<samgee> carstenh, I'm looking for a definition of codename and suite that my mother would understand.
<geser> ScottK: I plan to do an upload of ubuntu-dev-tools to update the defaults for maverick. But trunk contains also a new script (syncpackage). Should I seperate the changes and do only an upload for the changed defaults or go for a FFe (because of the new script)?
<ScottK> geser: I'd prefer an upload without the script.  I think we haven't fully digested the policy implicaitions of its widespread use.
<samgee> e.g. Codename = the working name of a distro's release, like the army has working names like "Project Hide and Seek".
<carstenh> samgee: finding one that your mother understands and that is also correct seems to be hard :/
<samgee> carstenh, your explanation about oldstable and such only applies to debian
<persia> geser: Would you mind including the pbuilder-dist fix if you're rebasing?  I'd really like to see that in lucid.
<carstenh> samgee: ubuntu didn't reinvent the (or better this) whell
<samgee> it's strange that debian (or ubuntu) haven't defined these terms in some manual. Doesn't that make conversations about repo and package handling hard?
<geser> persia: yes, I planned to only take the syncpackage script out from this upload
<persia> Those convesations don't tend to happen much.  Generally folks just use software that does it for them.
<persia> geser: Cool, thanks.
<persia> re: syncpackage: didn't we remove pitti's script that worked like that from u-d-t?
<persia> (plus getting Soyuz to handle native-source-sync is the right way, and that already (almost) works for PPAs)
<geser> persia: the syncpackage script in u-d-t trunk is based on pitti's script
<persia> Ah.  I thought it was there before and then removed.  I may be confused.
<geser> I didn't check the history, so I don't know (and I don't remember it but that doesn't mean much)
<ScottK> It's never been in there before, AFAIK
<persia> Probably me misrememnering then.  My memory of it being around was from around gutsy release, and after this much time, that is inherently suspicious.
<ajmitch> morning
<ScottK> mdeslaur: Nice bug.  It's accepted.
<mdeslaur> thanks ScottK :)
<ScottK> mdeslaur: Does that affect versions in previous releases (i.e. should it be considered for SRU)?
<mdeslaur> ScottK: oh! how odd, it probably affects karmic too
<kamalm> persia: ping
<mdeslaur> ScottK: I'll investigate and open a proper bug tomorrow if it affects older releases
<ScottK> I think it's worth a look.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: although I've used sbuild everyday, I just hit the bug now, so I thought it was lucid specific!
<ScottK> I've no idea.
<persia> kamalm: Hey.  Just going through some sponsoring, and I noticed the libticables2 bit was still listed as available to be sponsored.  Do you happen to know the current status of the libti* mess?  I'd like to just sort it all at once.
<ScottK> It seems like you'd only trip it if you were low on space or had little installed.
<kamalm> persia: gosh, its been awhile... let me dust off the cobwebs from my notes here.
<ScottK> persia: AFAIK the status is needs sorting.  It's been on my TODO for quite some time and never made it to the top.
<ScottK> persia: It would also help with package installability.
<persia> mdeslaur: ScottK: The bug is likely to affect more karmic users, as best-practice for karmic was small-size LVM volume for schroots, whereas in lucid it's to use directory chroots.
<persia> kamalm: Thanks.  I just want to make sure I'm starting from where you left off, rather than from scratch again.
<mdeslaur> persia: I just started hitting it when I migrated to directory chroots :P
<persia> Oh, hrm.  I wonder if it's a tmpfs-size thing for the overlay.
<geser> anyone familiar with bzr knows how to temporarily "revert" a commit from the past (not the last commit)?
<ajmitch> the hacky way is to get the diff of that revision & its parent, and patch -R
<ajmitch> there must be a better way to do it though
<geser> ScottK: would it be acceptable to have the script in the source but not installed in the deb? I'm still trying to figure out how to do it best without disturbing the branch history to much
<ScottK> geser: That's fine.
<kamalm> persia: status of libti*2 --> libti*:   libticalcs2 and libtifiles2 got merged and uploaded.  my libticables2 merge does still need a sponsor: https://code.launchpad.net/~kamalmostafa/ubuntu/lucid/libticables/merge-526694 .   (maybe you knew all that already)
<persia> kamalm: Thanks for checking.  That matched my memory, but I figured you'd know it better :)  I'll take a look at ticables right after I finish the current one.
<persia> (but it might be  couple hours, as I've some time constraints coming up soon)
<kamalm> persia: ok very good -- i'll be available whenever, if you need me
<persia> kamalm: Thanks.
<persia> Anyone have any handy scripts that do something like dget/dput over ssh?
<ScottK> persia: I think dput supports it directly now.
<persia> I thought dput did sftp
<ScottK> (I'm not sure if that actually addresses your question)
<ScottK> Ah, maybe it does
<soren> persia: It does scp, sftp and rsync.
<soren> persia: (and others)
<persia> Not really, no.  I've started using debsign -r and liking it, except for the bit that it makes uploading annoying.
<persia> soren: But only to dput.cf locations :)
<soren> persia: Uh... Yes? Where do you need it from?
 * persia may write a tool that parses .dsc and .changes files and then does scp in one direction or the other.
<micahg> I have a silly question, if it's all open source, why would dput need to be over ssh?
<ScottK> micahg: I don't see the relationship between those two points.
<micahg> what needs to be protected in the upload I guess is my question
<persia> soren: Mostly just to/from other local servers (potentially different architectures).
<persia> micahg: I don't want to run an ftp server?
<ScottK> So using sftp avoids a security risk.
<micahg> persia: ah, for your own build server?
<ScottK> Also not all Debian archives are public and have purely free software in them.
<soren> persia: Oh, you want to take the stuff from somewhere else and put it somewhere entirely different?
<micahg> ok, makes sense, thanks ScottK and persia
<persia> micahg: Well, my own development servers.  I'm not so organised that I have a complex wanna-build system: I just like to test-build on multiple architectures easily, regardless of where I'm doing the development.
<persia> soren: I'd like to be able to operate on stuff in a manner similar to how debsign works: pass it a host:path parameter and have it pull or push sources/binaries as appropriate.
<soren> Ok, got it.
<persia> RIght now I have to list multiple files, and the set of dependent files is already encoded in the one file.
<persia> Anyway, if nobody has one, it's not terribly difficult, and the debsign code probably contains 90% of what I need.  I'll stick it in u-d-t for maverick if it works well enough for me.
<ScottK> It doesn't sound Ubuntu specfic though.
<persia> Hrm.  I suppose I could submit it to devscripts.
 * persia should probably stop hacking u-d-t anyway, and focus on other places, as nothing added so far is especially ubuntu-specific
 * jdong wonders how to generate those tree ring graphs without coding something entirely.
<jdong> trying to visualize fragmentation on my system
<jdong> something along the lines of http://www.newfreedownloads.com/imgs/32486-w520.jpg
<micahg> jdong: will it run in Wine?
<jdong> micahg: haha I don't know what I'm gonna use to generate the graph yet.
<jdong> I just need a number line wrapped in a polar coordinate system basically
<ScottK> bdrung: I'm looking at your audacious-plugins upload.  I may be reading this wrong, but it looks to me like your audacious upload renamed the icon to audacious, but at least one part of this patch is to look for audacious2?
<bdrung> ScottK: which part?
<ScottK> Just a moment, let me dig it up again.
<ScottK> bdrung: In audacious-plugins-2.3/debian/patches/correct-icon-name.patch, the hunk starting at line 60.
<bdrung> ScottK: didn't i drop this patch?
<ScottK> bdrung: You did.
<ScottK> Sorry, I was misreading the diff.
<ScottK> Reading diffs of patches gives me no end of grief.
<highvoltage> I can imagine that there are more fun things to do.
<bdrung> diffs of diffs are not easy to read
<persia> Just be sure to stay away from "derived" packages, where we can end up with diffs of diffs of diffs.
<dutchie> and don't get highlighted in launchpad properly cough bug 553642
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553642 in launchpad-code "Incorrect display of diff lines starting with +++" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553642
<bdrung> persia: it would be possible with eclipse ;) in the source tarballs are patches. now we modify the patches in the debian package and create a debdiff :P
<persia> Right.  That's the class of "derived" package that is annoying.  openoffice.org is another example.  This is annoyingly common also for everything that has licenses that require changes to be distributed as patches.
<YokoZar> ScottK: done (wine)
<ScottK> OK.  I'll take a look at it in a bit.
<YokoZar> ScottK: after wine then comes the ubuntu-studio dependent package, so there'll be another there
<ScottK> YokoZar: Looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/qemu-kvm_0.12.3+noroms-0ubuntu6_0.12.3+noroms-0ubuntu8.diff.gz, I'm wondering if your wine upload is correct?
<YokoZar> ScottK: I'd say the KVM upload is wrong.  Keybuk could tell you more but I was told to use start procps.  The || true also needs to be added to the KVM upload or the package may fail to install https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/447197
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 447197 in wine1.2 "Packages with custom /etc/sysctl.d/30-foo.conf files can fail to install: start procps returns exit status 1" [Undecided,Fix released]
<persia> In an upstart-only world, "start procps" is correct, but I'm unsure that packages are supposed to assume that.
<YokoZar> ScottK: I had a bit of a spat with Keybuk over this but the long and short is that both start procps and invoke-rc.d will fail when there's something wrong in /etc/sysctl.d rather than give a warning -- and somehow people were getting something wrong there without modifying it by hand.
<YokoZar> persia: I think it's a safe assumption when procps is in upstart (but not everything else is).  If you look at the upstart job it's basically the same code anyway.
 * persia suspects that assumption of an upstart-only world would require a policy deviation from Debian
<YokoZar> persia: or rather mixing upstart and non-upstart invokes shouldn't be a bad thing
<YokoZar> Let's ask keybuk
<persia> YokoZar: If it's "basically", something is wrong.  invoke-rc.d should be upstart-aware, and call the right job.
<YokoZar> It was months ago that I looked at it to be honest.  Either way the important part was the || true at the end
<persia> I'm in strong support of || true :)  I just happen to agree with lool's interpretation of policy.
<YokoZar> Also I'll note the documentation is out of date (that says packages need to use rc.d instead of start)
<YokoZar> In fact I think that's mentioned at the bug I linked
<YokoZar> Here's keybuk in the bug report: "start procps" is the right command
<lool> YokoZar: start procps would work in e.g. chroots which have a policy-rc.d in place
<lool> Currently, there's no policy compliant way to disable upstart jobs directly, policy-rc.d is only honored if you use invoke-rc.d
<YokoZar> lool: so we should use start procps then?
<lool> YokoZar: No, we should not
<lool> ScottK, persia: ^
<lool> YokoZar: invoke-rc.d will check and honor policy-rc.d
<lool> and will ultimately do the same thing as start procps if it's enabled
<YokoZar> In that case I'll need to switch to invoke-rc.d in both wine and wine1.2, and then bother keybuk again
<lool> YokoZar: where did kyebuk comment on start procps being the right thing?
<YokoZar> lool: I still need invoke-rc.d ... || true of course
<lool> YokoZar: start procps is noisy only when run manually
<lool> YokoZar: Yes
<lool> But not when run from dpkg
<lool> So that should be fine
<lool> I mean invoke-rc.d is noisy, sorry
<YokoZar> lool: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/447197/comments/12
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 447197 in wine1.2 "Packages with custom /etc/sysctl.d/30-foo.conf files can fail to install: start procps returns exit status 1" [Undecided,Fix released]
<persia> qemu-kvm would probably benefit from || true as well
<YokoZar> persia: Yes, otherwise you're going to have a whole lot of upgrade failures
<lool> YokoZar: Commented in there
<lool> persia: Yes, albeit I'm not really tempted to touch that
 * lool is tired now
 * lool &
<persia> heh, OK.
<ScottK> YokoZar: What was the conclusion?
<YokoZar> ScottK: I think lool convinced me and we should do:  invoke-rc.d procps start || true     for wine, wine1.2, and qemu-kvm
<ScottK> YokoZar: So I shold reject this wine upload.
<YokoZar> ScottK: sure
<ScottK> OK.  Done.
<ScottK> Reupload when you're ready and I'll have another look.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-23
<merbit> can someone check out bug #568707 ? It looks like debian/rules is missing a sed command to replace "@java_launcher@" in file debian/JB-java.desktop.in
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568707 in sun-java6 "Cannot open .jar with right-click > open with "sun java 6 runtime"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568707
<persia> Does it work with OpenJDK?
<merbit> persia: yes :)
<persia> Ah, it does!
<nessita> hello everyone. I build a .deb for a project of mine (https://lp:launchpad/pycasa), and I uploaded the package to revu, but it complains "This package could not be extracted; there's no browsable directory for it on REVU." Would you know what steps I should take in this case? (the tar.gz can be opened with no problem, and the .deb installs just fine)
<persia> nessita: Your next step is to relax.  REVU doesn't have a new enough dpkg to unpack your package.
<nessita> persia: wow
<lool> Would someone be able to help me sync over libhildonhelp from sid?
<lool> to fix a FTBFS in Ubuntu
<persia> lool: A straight sync?
<lool> I didn't manage to fill in the sycn request
<lool> persia: yeah
<lool> 2.0.5-4
<nessita> persia: ok then, thanks!
<persia> lool: Just file a sync request, no?
<persia> Or do you need a test-build/etc. ?
<merbit> james_w: Are you in charge to update the ubuntu package branches? Could you update sun-java6? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/sun-java6/lucid shows it's going to be updated, but never is! https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/sun-java6 says it's 20 weeks old
<james_w> merbit: I'm one of the people that can do that, yes
<james_w> however, it's not a 2 minute job, sorry
<james_w> I've just realised that we don't import partner, and I'm not sure that we should
<james_w> and the branch is never updated with the state from when it wasn't in partner due to MemoryError apparently
 * james_w files some bugs
<merbit> that was my next message, i kind of realized that :)
<lool> persia: I didn't manage to
<merbit> thanks :)
<lool> persia: requestsync doesn't want to take it
<lool> neither with --lp nor without
<persia> Then just file a bug with the right title, the expanation why the ubuntu diff can be dropped, the explanation why it needs to happen pre-release, and a changelog diff.
<ajmitch> lool: LP is a little slow on picking up that there's a new version in debian
<persia> Subscribe the archive-admins.
<james_w> merbit: bugs 568740 and 568741
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568740 in launchpad-code "lp:ubuntu/sun-java6 isn't scanned apparently due to MemoryError" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568740
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568741 in udd "Partner isn't imported" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568741
<merbit> james_w: thanks!
 * lool filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libhildonhelp/+bug/568742
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 568742 in libhildonhelp "Please sync libhildonhelp 2.0.5-4 (universe) from debian (unstable)" [Undecided,New]
 * ajmitch should have filed a bug about the lp records of debian packages not updating properly
 * ajmitch will let the LP people deal with that now
<persia> Interesting.  sun-java6 isn't in Ubuntu anymore.
 * persia gives up on bug #568707
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568707 in sun-java6 "Cannot open .jar with right-click > open with "sun java 6 runtime"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568707
<ajmitch> oh it's finally been removed?
<persia> merbit: My recommendation would be to switch JVMs :)
<persia> Apparently so.  I've been ignoring it for a good while now, but it's gone so I can be explicit about ignoring it :)
 * ajmitch hates getting nearly unintelligible telemarketing calls at work
<StevenK> persia: It moved from multiverse to partner
<persia> StevenK: But rmadison doesn't show partner :)
<StevenK> That can be fixed
<StevenK> I'd rather not, but don't tempt me :-)
<persia> Personally, I consider it a feature.
<ajmitch> but he wants to be able to ignore it :)
<persia> StevenK: That said, I'd be delighted if you knew how to make rmadison show ports.
 * persia currently has to fiddle with running madison-lite twice
<ajmitch> StevenK: you're 'familiar' with gina & soyuz, right? :)
<persia> What does gina do?
<ajmitch> from what I was told, keeps track of source packages in debian
<ajmitch> though that's probably a rather wrong description
<ajmitch> A script that generates Launchpad database entries for tables related to
<ajmitch> packages; bases itself on Katie data and Debian package/release tag files.
<ajmitch> from the README file in the LP source
<StevenK> ajmitch: What about it?
<ajmitch> StevenK: reocrds of uploads to sid aren't showing up on LP, I can't tell if it's intentional (probably not)
<ajmitch> it makes requestsync unhappy, I filed bug 568745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568745 in soyuz "Debian unstable record of gpt missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568745
<StevenK> persia: Right, to make the madison-lite mirror on people.c.c support ports requires crimes against humanity that I'm not willing to commit
<persia> StevenK: OK.  Thanks for looking into it.
 * persia may have to set up a local madison.cgi
<ajmitch> crimes against humanity sounds like a good description of some of this soyuz stuff
<StevenK> madison.cgi is trivial, if you have a cache seeded with ports stuff
<persia> ajmitch: The key part of the phrase is "I'm not willing to commit"
<persia> I'd have to fake it, by setting up something to merge the ./dists/ trees
<StevenK> ajmitch: But looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/gpt doesn't show unstable at all?
<persia> Might it be a side effect of the "let's sync from testing" adjustment?
<ajmitch> StevenK: correct
<StevenK> persia: I was thinking that
<ajmitch> I'd have thought it'd have been more of a problem before now
<ajmitch> thought I haven't exactly been doing a lot of syncs
<persia> Since that gets readjusted in a couple weeks, I'm not sure how critical fixing it now might be.
<StevenK> I can't see unstable on https://edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/glibc either
<ajmitch> I'm doing it wrong - there are records for sid on there
<ajmitch> but they're not updated for gpt
<ajmitch> https://edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/gpt/1.0.4-1 says it's uploaded to sid, but 1.0.4-3 was uploaded a week ago
<ajmitch> I think I'll go & get lunch instead :)
<imbrandon> StevenK / persia is it something that could be setup on ubuntuwire ?
<StevenK> No, it has LP internals all through it
<imbrandon> ah
<persia> imbrandon: We could do something entirely different that pulled every upload from Debian and extracted the changelogs, and made a DB, etc., but that's just a lot of effort when it's working around a simple bugfix.
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> persia: you may as well use UDD for that, if it were needed
<persia> ajmitch: Indeed.
<ScottK> YokoZar: wine accepted.
<YokoZar> ScottK: Great.  now onto the next one...
<YokoZar> ScottK: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/wine/1.0.1-0ubuntu11
<YokoZar> ScottK: failed to upload?
<YokoZar> do I need to bump the version?
<ajmitch> YokoZar: it's not liking the version
<ajmitch> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/45057644/upload_1703023_log.txt
<YokoZar> ajmitch: it probably got confused by the rejected upload having the same version then
<ScottK> YokoZar: No.  Not that.
<ScottK> YokoZar: What was the wine version when it was provided by the wine1.2 package and what is it now?
<YokoZar> ScottK: ugh, yeah that was 1.1.42-something
<ScottK> So you need a higher version.
<ajmitch> thiss was the WARNING in that upload log
<ScottK> Since your package doesn't derive from Debian at all, I don't think an epoch would be a problem.
<YokoZar> ScottK: If I make this Wine > 1.1.42, users of wine1.2 will be downgraded to it and that's not supposed to happen
<ajmitch> but it neeeds to be higher than what's in the archive currently for it to exist
<ScottK> YokoZar: Did wine1.2 provide wine or was it an actual package?
<YokoZar> ScottK: it was a dummy package
<YokoZar> So new wine needs to be > original Wine and < current wine1.2 package
<ScottK> Are the actual wine and wine1.2 packcages co-installable?
<YokoZar> ScottK: no they're not, I'm worried about making dpkg spew out one of those refusal to upgrade things
<ScottK> YokoZar: Yeah, I agree.
<ScottK> I'm not sure what the right answer is.
<persia> YokoZar: Whilst you're fiddling with wine, would you be up for adding an entry to P-a-s?
<YokoZar> persia: No, as I explained earlier the package has parts that are usable on all arches (the font), and there is an ARM port underway
<YokoZar> persia: In its current state it doesn't try to build on the other arches anyway as it lists them specifically in the control file
<persia> An ARM port!  For WinCE?
<persia> Yeah, it's because it doesn't build, but wastes build scheduler time and buildd time not building that I wanted to see the P-a-s entries.
<YokoZar> persia: For winelib apps at first, but in the future Windows Mobile compatibility is reasonable as it's very similar to win32
<YokoZar> persia: why would the builder try to build on an arch that has no binary targets?
<persia> YokoZar: Because the semantics of .dsc files aren't rich enough to properly identify which architectures should be used for building, which is why we have P-a-s.
<YokoZar> persia: do the architecture=all packages become available on P-A-S prohibited targets?
<persia> Absolutely.  Those are arch:all, so only get build on i386, and may be installed anywhere.
<persia> P-a-s is only how we tell the buildds not to bother even trying a source on an arch.
<persia> So if a source has a combination of Architecture fields in debian/control that means it should never be tried on some architecture (e.g. wine on sparc), it makes sense to P-a-s it.
<YokoZar> persia: Will P-A-S affect ppas?
<persia> No idea, but since PPAs don't build any interesting architectures anyway, I doubt it matters.
<YokoZar> persia: My thinking was if ARM port gets somewhere and I put Wine ARM port on a PPA I don't want to deal with worrying about P-A-S issues for a stable release
<persia> PPAs don't support ARM anyway.
<ScottK> If someone could investigate a sync request for zabbix, that looks likely to be fruituf.
<persia> 1:1.8.2-1?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> Sync or merge, whichever.
<ScottK> In the meantime, I think I will sleep
<persia> Good night.
<persia> http://www.zabbix.com/documentation/1.8/manual/about/what_s_new_1.8.2 looks like a massive volume of feature additions to me.
<persia> Anyone actually use zabbix?
<persia> Reading the docs, I don't think I can test a new version effectively.
<ajmitch> ScottK: your opinion on bug 568670? I just got warned of it by a DD
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568670 in perl "upgrade to lucid breaks completely when safe-rm is installed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568670
<ScottK> Is it better to risk a possble broken new version or release with a known security issue?
<ScottK> Good night.
<persia> ajmitch: Can't that be cherrypicked trivially and safely?
<ajmitch> it'd just be adding the conflicts, I think
<ajmitch> rather than grabbing that revision of perl
<persia> That's what it looks like to me.  Pulling newer software seems risky, but not upgrading seems bad.
<persia> cherrypicking can probably skip both options.
<ajmitch> at least ubuntu-release is subscribed now, hopefully slangasek will see it soon :)
<persia> I'd suggest attaching a cherrypick debdiff for consideration.  I believe the release team operates best when there's something to review.
<persia> I'm certain they respond more effectively when something is milestone-targeted.
<ajmitch> true
<ajmitch> I'll create a quick debdiff & nominate it then
<ajmitch> whatever is needed to avoid messy upgrades
<persia> Can't you just milestone it?  I thought you were core-dev
<ajmitch> I can, UI still says nominate for release
 * ajmitch looks for the right milestone button
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'm just trying to get that bug to load in my browser
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'd just milestone it and upload the proposed package.  It's a lot easier for the release team to review in the queue and accept/reject than it is to do the additional round trip if it's decided an upload is wanted.
<ajmitch> alright
<ScottK> I've got the LP foo covered
<ajmitch> I'll make up a package now then
<ScottK> Great.
<ajmitch> may take awhile to test-build, so don't stay up waiting for it :)
<ScottK> I am enjoying the irony of safe-rm breaking upgrade.
<ScottK> I won't.
<ScottK> Good night again.
<ajmitch> night
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hola ajmitch
<ajmitch> how are you?
<dholbach> ajmitch: very slowly waking up, but alright :)
<ajmitch> heh
 * ajmitch is forever doomed if this upload gets accepted - I'll have the TIL curse for perl for maverick
<dholbach> hahaha
 * dholbach hugs ajmitch
<persia> ajmitch: You always wanted to be a perl hacker, right?
<ajmitch> persia: yeah, and cyanide is tasty & wholesome, right?
<persia> Of course.  The only cure for oxygen addiction.
<ajmitch> at least I wasn't the last person to touch php
<ajmitch> so how's universe looking for release this time round?
<persia> Depending on architecture, I get 310/107/100/163 from `apt-cache unmet -i | grep ^Package | wc -l`
<ajmitch> it could be worse
<ajmitch> though it'd be nice to see them at 0
<persia> ubuntuwire ftbfs has 28 packages FTBFS on i386 (never mind other arches), and there's more at the UDD link.
<persia> RCBugs is depressingly full.
<Rhonda> persia, ScottK: I finally got around to upload wesnoth-1.8 1:1.8-3 to unstable, including a change to have installing the wesnoth-1.8-server package make it _not_ start automatically, closing a LP bug. :)
<ajmitch> it'll be SRU season soon
<persia> Rhonda: File a sync request.
<persia> (and share the bug number of the sync)
<persia> ajmitch: My worry is that everyone will be focused enough on maverick, that these will never be fixed.
<ajmitch> persia: that's usually the case
<ajmitch> I should probably sit down with the rc bugs list & try & get a few more fixes in, or scrub the bug as unimportant
 * persia has done a few hit&miss scans, and expects to spend some real time with it over the weekend.
<ajmitch> it's not entirely accurate either
<ajmitch> yeah, I went & added a few comments, I need to follow up on getting the fix in
<ajmitch> not sure when we'll be told to stop uploading to let the buildds be free
<Rhonda> persia: I will, just give me a moment to settle. ;)
<Rhonda> Thought I'd drop a notice prior to that.
<persia> I think we're good up until the usual deadlines: Xubuntu and UbuntuStudio stuff can always rescore, all the architectues are mostly caught up, and main gets 1000 extra points anyway.
<persia> Rhonda: No huge rush :)
<fabrice_sp> I asked that on ubuntu-release, but not sure it was the right channel: Hi. Is this sync acceptable? (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gorm.app/+bug/568619) It fixes a FTBFS and make 2 packages installables
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 568619 in gorm.app "FFe: Sync gorm.app 1.2.10-1 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Wishlist,New]
 * ajmitch finds 2 to knock off the rcbugs list
<persia> fabrice_sp: Am I reading that right that the only "feature additions" are the button style popups and the support for standalone views?
 * persia would imagine it to be OK, but suspects it needs release-team ACK
<ajmitch> ugh, xemacs21 needs a merge
<fabrice_sp> persia, that's also my point (mainly bug fixing, but some 'new' features)
<slytherin> Are bug fixes still allowed for packages in universe?
<slytherin> ahh, forgot to check topic.
<persia> Absolutely!
<persia> We have about 50,000 bugs to fix in the next week.
<_ruben> ;)
<slytherin> ha ha ha
<Rhonda> persia, ScottK: LP bug #568871 is the sync request. Thanks in advance. :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568871 in wesnoth-1.8 "Please sync wesnoth-1.8 1:1.8-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568871
<slytherin> Wow, I just checked yesterday and wesnoth 1.8 was not in unstable. :-)
<slytherin> Rhonda: Any idea why is this a new package 'wesnoth1.8'?
<the-dude> fabrice_sp: ping
<fabrice_sp> the-dude, pong
<Rhonda> slytherin: wesnoth 1.8 was in unstable yesterday and for a bit longer, too. It was just build-broken. And of course I have an idea about that because I did the change. ;)
<slytherin> Rhonda: Ok. Then tell me. Why the source/binary package rename.
<Rhonda> slytherin: The reason is to be able to install 1.6 and 1.8 side-by-side and not have to remove the one on upgrade and with that lose the posibility to finish a started campaign.
<Rhonda> There were some people complain about that with last releases.
<slytherin> Rhonda: Funny, I never faced such a problem.
<Rhonda> On upgrade from 1.2 to 1.4, and then again from 1.4 to 1.6.  I wanted to avoid that for 1.8
<slytherin> May it was specific to some campaigns. As I said, in my case the partial campaign always got converted properly.
<persia> Rhonda: testbuild (powerpc) started
<persia> Rhonda: Do you know if anyone ran it in Ubuntu yet?
<Rhonda> Actually don't know that, sorry no.
<Rhonda> slytherin: No, it was for all campaign. And 1.6 even started to use its own dotdir so it wasn't even technicly possible anymore to load a savegame from 1.4
<Rhonda> Maybe you didn't had any unfinished campaigns from the old releases when you did the upgrades.
<persia> slytherin: Since this needs runtime testing, and you're obviously a player, do you want to gram bug #568871?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568871 in wesnoth-1.8 "Please sync wesnoth-1.8 1:1.8-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568871
<slytherin> persia: I have not updated to lucid. If the dependencies are not very tight I can try.
<the-dude> fabrice_sp: what can I do to get a new version of grsync in to ubuntu? I see you uploaded the last version
<persia> slytherin: OK.  If you fail, let me know, and I'll play it tomorrow (I'll likely fall asleep first tonight).
<slytherin> persia: Where do I find packages?
<slytherin> the-dude: At this point new version is very much out of question (unless in very exceptional cases).
<persia> slytherin: unstable
<persia> slytherin: You'll have to build them
<the-dude> fabrice_sp: it would solve a lot of open bugs, isn't that a good reason :)
<the-dude> I could prepare a NMU if needed
<slytherin> persia: That is problematic then. My machine freezes almost every time I try to build anything. :-( I thought I could pick packages from your test build.
<fabrice_sp> the-dude, the actual version in ubuntu is the debian one, so you can fill a sync request, explaining why a FFe should be granted
<persia> the-dude: We have no maintainers in Ubuntu.  THere's no such thing as NMU.  debdiffs may be sponsored.
<persia> slytherin: I'm building powerpc/lucid.  I can pass you those.
<persia> (or build something else)
<slytherin> persia: powerpc is fine. I can test parallel install with 1.6 on karmic.
<the-dude> fabrice_sp: its there https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grsync/+bug/556280
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 556280 in grsync "New version grsync Debian testing/unstable" [Undecided,New]
<fabrice_sp> the-dude, you should follow the FFe process
<the-dude> I can create a debdiff as well if someone wants to sponsor it
<fabrice_sp> no need of debdiff, if the debian package works
<the-dude> the debian package works, but it doesn't close LP bugs
<fabrice_sp> that's why you hae to explain why it is so important to have it in lucid ;-)
<the-dude> fabrice_sp: I already added comments to the open bugs
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: I think he meant the debian changelog does not have (LP: #xxxxxx) comments.
<the-dude> slytherin: yes thanks :)
<the-dude> Im maintainer of the Debian grsync package
<fabrice_sp> the-dude, subscribe ubuntu-release to get their ack
<the-dude> fabrice_sp: ask them if it is ok to sync ?
<fabrice_sp> yes
<fabrice_sp> and you can add the bugs that this release would fix
<fabrice_sp> !ffe|the-dude
<ubottu> the-dude: Feature Freeze Exception. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess for the freeze exception process.
<fabrice_sp> that explain the kind of info you need to add to your sync request before subscribing ubutnu-release
<AnAnt> Hello, is there a way to only download a delta instead of the whole .deb files on upgrades ?
<geser> no
<AnAnt> ok
<slytherin> AnAnt: Have you ever heard of debdelta?
<AnAnt> slytherin: maybe
<AnAnt> slytherin: ok, I just read about it, but seems that it needs to be supported on server side too
<slytherin> AnAnt: Yes. But there isn't much trouble in setting the server side.
<AnAnt> slytherin: except that I am not the server side :)
<slytherin> AnAnt: You may try requesting the server/repo admin.
<slytherin> persia: Are you currently approving universe packages from queue?
<persia> slytherin: I'm not a member of the release team.
 * persia is in fact not a member of *any* special teams that appove anything *except* regarding membership in teams.
<soren> It's funny really. You can go and make other people core-dev, but you'r not one yourself.
<slytherin> hmm. ScottK, can you please approve pidgin-sipe whenever you get time.
<persia> soren: I believe it to be that my wisdom is respected, but that I don't have frequent enough desire to upload to anything for which I'd need core-dev to be in the group.
<soren> persia: Probably something like that. It's just a bit odd.
<persia> I guess.  I end up with 3-4 uploads to main a cycle, and have since Breezy (excepting edgy and karmic, when I wasn't active).  I don't really anticipate this will change.
<persia> Plus, I expect components to go away soon enough, so that the entire "main"/"universe" thing will go away.
<imbrandon> i've been expecting them to go away for a while, dont see it happening though for 3 or 4 more cycles
<slytherin> Does anyone know why such an error would be seen only on sparc buildd - gnome-icon-theme: Depends: libgtk2.0-bin but it is not going to be installed
<imbrandon> is libgtk2.0-bin built ?
<imbrandon> ( for sparc )
<persia> slytherin: there's a script on the buildd that kills any attempt to build libgtk on sparc because it was killing the buildds.
<persia> slytherin: In other news, the lucid sparc kernel isn't known to boot for anyone.
<imbrandon> fun
<slytherin> Oh. I will then stop worrying about why evolution isn't building on sparc. :-)
<imbrandon> i dont have any sparc hardware anymore sadly
<persia> Really needs a couple people with sparcs to pay attention, and it can work again.  There's only about 6-7 core bugs that make it mostly useless.
<imbrandon> persia: what happened to fabionone or w/e his irc nick was
<slytherin> persia: By the way, there are sparc packages here - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0 So I am really not sure why this error is seen during evolution build.
<persia> imbrandon: He's around here and there.  Last I heard, he didn't have a fix.
<imbrandon> ahh
<persia> slytherin: Quite possibly due to archive skew (different versions)
<persia> slytherin: Or maybe I'm out of date.  Would have to test on a sparc, and our virtual sparcs are currently broken for another reason.
<slytherin> persia: 'different versions' does not seem to be a problem. Anyway, it's not like I care too much for sparc.
<persia> heh.
<persia> If we get a couple people to fix the core issues, the rest of us will happily chase the miscellaneous stuff.
<ScottK> slytherin: I didn't see  pidgin-sipe in the queue.
<slytherin> ScottK: Someone else approved it already.
<ScottK> OK
<slytherin> ScottK: I thought it was you. :-)
<ScottK> Nope.  I was sleeping.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, would you mind having a look at bug 568619 and see if it requires a FFe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568619 in gorm.app "FFe: Sync gorm.app 1.2.10-1 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568619
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Perhaps later today.  Currently I need to sleep.
<imbrandon> ScottK: wakeup just for an IRC fix ;)
<ScottK> No, woke up to get the first wave of kids off to school.
<imbrandon> ahh
<persia> slytherin: Rhonda: This is going to take a whle: it *finally* started ./configure
<slytherin> ok
<Rhonda> persia: Well, build with -b wouldn't build the source (again) and spare you a lot of time. :)
<persia> Rhonda: I didn't rebuild the source: I just fed it to sbuild for binary-only build.
 * persia doesn't have a very super-powerful powerpc
<imbrandon> consumer powerfull powerpc hardware is becomming increasingly harder to find
 * imbrandon wouldent mind picking up something arround 2ghz at somepoint
<persia> Doesn't help that I have a new rule that all my servers must be smaller than 200mmx200mmx100mm
<imbrandon> ;)
<slytherin> persia: Is your machine slower than G4 1.3 GHz with 1.2 GB RAM?
<persia> More CPU, less RAM.
<persia> But < 10% more CPU
<persia> But it's nearly done, and I'm doing arch-all on a different machine (2x2.5GHz/4G)
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> i have a video file, i know its a video file because my portable media player will play the file as video, it became a video file by a piece of windows software that converted my mpg-2 file to this format, so i'm lookin at it trying to figure out what it is so i can use something like ffmpeg to create more of them, but linux "file" only knows it as :data :(
<imbrandon> ideas ?
<persia> Rhonda: I'm getting lots of dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unused substitution variable ${wesnoth:Max-Version} messages.  Dunno if that's intended, or matters.
<slytherin> imbrandon: Try something like this - gst-launch-0.10 -t playbin uri=file:///path/to/file
<slytherin> imbrandon: that -t should print out metadata.
<slytherin> if it can actually identify it.
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> hum i get exactly 2 lines of output, and nothing else seems to be happening ( but it hasent given me a prompt back either )
<imbrandon> Setting pipeline to PAUSED ...
<imbrandon> Pipeline is PREROLLING ...
<slytherin> imbrandon: Is the video playing in a window?
<imbrandon> nope, no windows opened up
<slytherin> hmm, looks like it is not able to identify the type. Do you have all the gstreamer plugins packages installed?
<imbrandon> yea as far as i know, and ubuntu-restricted-extras plus w32codecs and vlc
<imbrandon> and a slew of other "media" stuffr
<imbrandon> s/stuffr/stuff
<slytherin> hmm, any chance you can post the video anywhere.
<imbrandon> sure, give me just a sec
<Rhonda> persia: http://bugs.debian.org/557133 :)
<persia> Rhonda: Aha!
<Laibsch> Can somebody please sync pastebinit from Debian unstable and fix bug 566933?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566933 in pastebinit "please sync pastebinit from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566933
<Rhonda> persia: I take it that you are building it on karmic, not on lucid then? ;)
<persia> I'm building on lucid.
<Rhonda> Hmm. Maybe the bug needs to get reopened. I really have to check my own build logs.
<imbrandon> slytherin: http://storage.brandonholtsclaw.com/misc/Hilary_Duff_-_Beat_of_My_Heart.mtv
<persia> Laibsch: Why?  I didn't see any additional changes in Debian that were worth changing.
<Rhonda> persia: Anyway, that's the bug you found and it is well known to me. :)
<persia> If it's known, and didn't compromise my build, I'm happy.
<slytherin> imbrandon: It will take a while to download. Will let you know when I am done with analysis.
<Rhonda> So expected behavior and no influence, yes.
<slytherin> imbrandon: At least half hour
<imbrandon> slytherin: great , and thanks
<imbrandon> slytherin: no worries, i'm just starting my day, i'll be arround for the next ~8 hours minimum
<Laibsch> persia: that's exactly the point.  To have no Ubuntu delta going into the lucid release.
<persia> Laibsch: Not worth making a fuss about: there are more critical uses of archive-admin time right now, and the bug in LP that keeps the rest of us from processing syncs is getting closer to closed, but isn't there yet.
<Laibsch> if nothing else it makes things easier for me.  And me being the maintainer of the package, that means, I'd be much more inclined and responsive to backport fixes once lucid is released.
<persia> Laibsch: So, I ACK'd it, and put it in the right place to get synced, but I don't consider it release-critical.
<carstenh> imbrandon: i did not read this link, but googling for the first string in the video ... http://mympxplayer.org/solved-mtv-aliavi-converter-on-linux-vt12615.html
<Laibsch> persia: I never said it was RC
<Laibsch> but then again, I don't think we now fix only RC bugs
<Laibsch> now
<persia> Laibsch: We're in final-freeze.  If it's not RC, it's not likely to happen.
<Laibsch> ?
<Laibsch> if that rule existed, that would be stupid IMNSHO
<Laibsch> a fix is a fix
<imbrandon> carstenh: i think i looked at that , but it said to use wine, but let me try make sure
<persia> Laibsch: There are 7 people who can process syncs.  They are all focused on RC issues.  Is this bug important enough to distract them?  It's in the queue, so if they have a spare moment, they'll do it.
<carstenh> imbrandon: maybe the strings ALIAVI RIFF and WAVEfmt could help slytherin to find a solution faster
<imbrandon> carstenh: yea i seen that, it says use wine ( i would rather not if i can help it )
<persia> That there are so few people who can do it is a bug, but that's a different issue.
<imbrandon> true
<imbrandon> carstenh: btw, thanks :)
<slytherin> imbrandon: Just FYI ... 'file -i filename' is better use of the command.
<imbrandon> :)
<slytherin> imbrandon: Sorry, can't help much. Here is the output from gst-launch - http://paste.ubuntu.com/421019/
<persia> File copy is the worst part: data+music >> 200MB
<imbrandon> slytherin: ok thanks a ton for looking, i'll keep poking, i'm gonna beat this thing if it kills me
<imbrandon> :)
<slytherin> persia: Don't copy music. It is not hard dependency.
 * slytherin will be back in half hour.
 * persia may have published binaries by then
<nigelbabu> .ws 26
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: For libmetadata-extractor-java, would you please just cherrypick the changes needed to fix the FTBFS and upload rather than sync all the changes.
<ScottK> (sync is good for Maverick)
<persia> slytherin: http://people.ubuntu.com/~persia/wesnoth-1.8/
<slytherin> persia: Thanks. I am updating some CD images. After that I will download the packages.
<persia> Heh, OK.  Dunno if you want the debug packages or the music, but just in case :)
<slytherin> persia: Nope. Just core + data + campaigns.
<persia> slytherin: If it works, please ACK the sync rather than telling me, to save time :)
<slytherin> persia: But I am not part of release team. :-)
<slytherin> I will add comment on bug.
<persia> slytherin: and subscribe the archive-admins.
<persia> It's just two cherrypicks from upstream.
<persia> (upstream bugs 15716 15865)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 15716 in iso-scan "iso-scan: new changes from Debian require merging" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15716
<persia> So since it's bugfix-only, no release-team ACK required (although the archive-admins may not prioritse it)
<slytherin> My bad. Actually I was assuming it to be a new upstream version (with appropriate FFE data available).
<persia> No, just fixes.  Otherwise I wouldn't waste time on it this close to release :)
<slytherin> :-)
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, ok (about cherrypicking the fix for libmetadata-extractor-java)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Thanks.
<mok0> ls -Fart
<hyperair> mok0++
<mok0> hyperair!
<hyperair> mok0!
<mok0> My mouse is focus confused
<hyperair> focus confused?
<mok0> Uhm yes it was focused Pidgin and not terminator
<hyperair> =O
<hyperair> mok0: i thought that was intentional
<hyperair> i mean -Fart sounds like an awesome flag combination ;-)
<mok0> hyperair: Indeed :-)
<persia> It'S both memorable and useful
<mok0> hyperair: it could be the start of a great meme
<hyperair> mok0: submit it to the xkcd author, maybe he'll think of something =p
<mok0> hyperair: heh, can you do that?
<hyperair> mok0: i don't know =\
<mok0> hyperair: but... but.. but... he so KNOWN!
<mok0> :-)
<hyperair> mok0: to me, you're a celebrity too =p
<mok0> hyperair: what are you trying to achieve :-)
 * hyperair whistles and walks away
<mok0> hehe
 * hyperair makes a tomboy note: flattery does not work on mok0 ;-)
<ScottK> Stuff like this is why I always minimize my IRC window before typing passwords now.
<mok0> Tomboy eh? I'm a Zim man myself
<mok0> ScottK, I did that once
<mok0> My best password, too
<ScottK> Fortunately mine wasn't.  It was just my Skype password.
<ScottK> (emphasis on was)
<mok0> ScottK, ah yes, low grade ones
<mok0> Well, people should run john the ripper on their /etc/password files once in a while. It's an enlightening experience
<hyperair> mok0: me too. i dumped it out on #ck on oftc >_>
<mok0> :-/
<hyperair> thankfully, since firefox keeps track ofm y passwords, i just had to do a search and change passwords on all the sites that used it.
<hyperair> (it would be awesome if chromium could do the same)
<mok0> hyperair: keep track of passwords? It can
<hyperair> mok0: searching, no.
<mok0> ah
<hyperair> mok0: anyway isn't john the ripper supposed to operate on /etc/shadow?
<mok0> hyperair: can't remember
<mok0> hyperair: I think it operates on whatever you give it
<hyperair> heh i see
 * hyperair tries
<mok0> But tbh I can't remember given it's been more that a few days since I ran it last
<mok0> About the length of my memory span
<mok0> :)
<micahg> bdrung: how did you upload vlc-1ubuntu1 without it hitting Debian first?
<bdrung> micahg: vlc -1 is just waiting for a sponsor
<bdrung> micahg: git makes it possible ;)
<micahg> bdrung: k, thanks, one less package for me to worry about this weekend :)
<bdrung> :)
<ScottK> FYI, keep uploading stuff, but we need to hold off accepting Universe packages until after the current language pack export gets built down.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: can I upload xchat to fix a FTBFS?
<ScottK> mdeslaur: Definitely.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: cool
<micahg> ScottK: is Sunday ok for Seamonkey upload?
<ScottK> micahg: Assuming it meets the criteria for an update this late in the cycle and it's not on any ISO, yes.
<micahg> ScottK: you approved teh FFe
<ScottK> micahg: Sooner the better.
<micahg> ScottK: will try for early Sunday then
<didrocks> ScottK: can you accept the new quickly version, please? (not sure I have to bother you each time ;))
<ScottK> didrocks: We're waiting for the language pack export to finish before accepting more Universe packages.  That's another ~7 hours.
<ScottK> No need to ping every time
<didrocks> ScottK: ok, make sense. And thanks for the info, I'll avoid to ping you everytime so ;)
<didrocks> I'm never sure in freeze period about what's the process, everything uploaded to universe is still accepted until final?
<ScottK> It'll be reviewed.
<ajmitch> morning
<sistpoty> hey ajmitch
 * ajmitch needs to compile stuff, it's cold this morning
<geser> :)
<ScottK> Excellent.  We need more fixed.
<ScottK> ed/es
 * sistpoty bangs his head against abiword
<ivoks> ScottK: thanks ;)
<imbrandon> moins ajmitch
<mcas> hi
<mcas> can someone give me a hint how i can make a selection like in the postfix package and depending on this selection change the pre-depends of the package?
<sistpoty> mcas: what do you want to achieve?
<sistpoty> (ooo upgrade path is fixed, should hit mirrors in several hours, if that's what you're trying to achieve)
<mcas> there is a bug in bacula-server... this package needs mysql-server but the mysql-server gets started after bacula wants to create the db...
<mcas> but it is possible that you want to use another mysql-server so i would like to build a selection like "localhost, remote server" and if the user selects localhost the mysql-server has to be started before bacula wants to connect
<sistpoty> mcas: that should be best fixed within dbconfig-common, I guess
<sistpoty> (I think there's also a bug report mentioning this)
<sistpoty> bug #563039 fwiw
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563039 in dbconfig-common "package bacula-director-mysql 5.0.1-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563039
<psusi> isn't there a bzr command to export a tarball?
 * psusi facepalms... I swear bzr exort was the first thing I tried.... must have mistyped it
<persia> sistpoty: I don't have any of the leftover files from openal-soft currently.  The ABI change was just new symbols added: no drops: it *ought* work with existing clients (and worked with torcs).  The test case failed.  I can regenerate, but with other things, this will probably be 12-18 hours at least.
<persia> Err, the test case failed with the in-archive stuff, and succeeded with the update, rather.
<sistpoty> persia: I'd like to take a glimpse at it to see the amount of changed symbols (and I'd still like to see the full debdiff, we need a package ready to go out *now*)...
<sistpoty> persia: however my gut feeling is that we'll need to defer it to sru past release
<sistpoty> persia: oh, and thanks for your input, any good input for FFe's is always appreciated :)
<persia> sistpoty: Isn't it tricky to do in SRU?
 * persia is not yet awake enough to remember why, but remembers YokoZar mentioning some issues in the comments.
<sistpoty> persia: cherry-picked fixes shouldn't be tricky to SRU? and I guess updating ia32-libs from the fixes should also be trivial
<persia> OK, if you're comfortable.  ia32-libs is ugly enough I don't really like the idea of SRUing it, but that's a release/sru team decision :)
<sistpoty> persia: well, I'm not -sru, but I think if fixes are cherry-picked (instead of a huge diff), -sru won't object much ;)
<persia> I think cherrypicking would be painful: there's heaps of changes.
<sistpoty> persia: a heap of changes also makes it imho a bad idea to bring in now for lucid :(
<sistpoty> apt-cache rdepends libopenal1 | wc -l => 45
<persia> Yeah :/
<persia> It's bad either way.
<persia> My reasoning for pre-release is mostly: 1) upstream seems to care, and it makes them happy and 2) saves users downloading ia32-libs twice.
 * ScottK thinks if cherry picking were going to happen we'd have an SRU for Karmic already
 * persia suspects that's the case
<ScottK> sistpoty: I'd suggest we need to make a decision about leaving it like it is or updating.  I don't think a hypothetical cherrypick is a realistic expectation.
<sistpoty> ScottK: I'm not comfortable to give an ack for any library with rdepends where I didn't see a symbol diff, a proposed debdiff, and a diff of headers (which I usually take from rebuilding the package myself) at this point
<ScottK> OK.  That sounds like a lot less work that a cherrypick later.
<crimsun> sistpoty: if you're still following abiword, there are at least two commits that need to be applied; the xmlparsercleanup and gobject init ones
<persia> sistpoty: Fair.  I'll try to produce those later.
 * persia wishes YokoZar was about
<sistpoty> crimsun: yes, still looking at it
<sistpoty> crimsun: thanks for the info
<crimsun> the former is known to cause Bad Things (pulseaudio is almost always blamed, but it ain't PA's fault but the app that abuses xmlParserCleanup() )
<crimsun> I started looking at abiword last night, but I ran out of disk space
 * sistpoty only managed to do two rebuilds so far :/
<sistpoty> oh, abisource is back online, finally :)
<sistpoty> crimsun: any pointers about the xmlpasercleanup patch? can't find xmlParserCleanup in the source or the debdiff
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-24
 * sistpoty gives up on abiword
<ScottK> FYI, language packs are done, so we're accepting Universe packages again.
<Whyu> Askum all
<alkisg> Hi, I'm using python distutils and I want to produce two binary packages from the same source package. How can I do that in setup.py? Call setup() with different parameters depending on which package is being built?
<POX> man dh_install
<POX> (dh or cdbs will instal to debian/tmp, then just use debian/package.install files to select which file goes where)
<alkisg> POX, I had the package made with debian/*.install files, but then I was told that I was supposed to move those to setup.py
<alkisg> So I deleted the .install files
<alkisg> How can I register python modules if I use debian/*.install files?
<POX> will both binary packages contain Python modules?
<alkisg> Yes
<POX> I'd tell setup.py to install to package_a and then move few files to package_b in debian/rules
<POX> there are many possibilities, just use the one which requeres less typing ;)
<POX> (I doubt your setup.py hardcodes installation paths)
<alkisg> I'm not sure I got what you mean. Are you proposing that I'd install package_b without using setup.py, i.e. manually registering the python modules?
<alkisg> Can I have 2 different calls to setup() in setup.py, based on which package is being built?
<POX> ./setup.py -root debian/package_a; mv debian/package_a/foo/bar debian/package_b/foo
<POX> and debian/package_b/foo in debian/package_b.dirs
<POX> s,debian/package_b/foo,foo actually
<POX> (only in .dirs file)
<alkisg> Ah. Thanks, I got what you mean, but I need to experiment on that as I've never done something like this before (my debian/rules is just %: dh $@).
<POX> you can have two setup.py calls as well, just make sure they install different files
<alkisg> That sounds a little easier to me. Thanks a lot! :)
<POX> once you'll have it ready, join #debian-python
<geser> don't forget to mention that the #debian-python channel is on OFTC
<POX> right
<alkisg> That will probably take years - it's not secure enough to be generaly released yet :)
<alkisg> It's just for certain schools following a specific tutorial on how to setup ubuntu on their labs...
<alkisg> I hope in 1-2 years it'll be mature enough to try to get it into the archives
<alkisg> Hmmm setup.py is called for both packages by default, right? How can I find out which binary package it was called to build? I don't see anything useful on the environment: http://paste.ubuntu.com/421555/
<POX> if you're upstream, then the easiest option would be to add something like --only-module-a and --only-module-b in setup.py and then use setup.py --root=debian/package_a --only-module-a and setup.py --root=debian/package_b --only-module-b
<POX> how to invoke it? depends what you use (dh, cdbs, pure debhelper)
<POX> +pure Makefile :)
<alkisg> debhelper... let me look if it passes the name of the binary package as a command line argument to setup.py...
<POX> in dh, you can do that in override_dh_auto_install:
<alkisg> nah... it just calls ['setup.py', 'install', '--force', '--root=/home/alkisg/Documents/Linux/ppa/sch-scripts/debian/tmp', '--no-compile', '-O0', '--install-layout=deb']
<POX> yup
<POX> see above
<alkisg> Got it, thanks
<POX> it's a little bit more complicated if you're installing Python extensions (.so files)
<alkisg> No it's just python/shell, no extensions
<ari-tczew> I've requested bzr merge, but I need to update my branch. What I need to do if I want to got bzr merge with my next revision?
<geser> just update your branch, the merge proposal gets updated and the sponsor usually merges your latest revision
<benste> hi - how can I get reading access to a bug report whihch i'm not allowed to read ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.5/+bug/505857
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: list index out of range (https://launchpad.net/bugs/505857)
<benste> :-)
<benste> what the hell s going on with this bug report ?
<joaopinto> it's private ?
<benste> don't know
<benste> it's the successor of a bug reporting FF crashing with segfault on startup
<benste> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.5/+bug/505186
<persia> Most crash bugs are private by default.
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: list index out of range (https://launchpad.net/bugs/505857)
<benste> + looks like ubottu is not working too :-9
<persia> *especially* browser bugs often stay private for a while, as they may expose things that users consider private (e.g. cookies, authentication tokens, etc.)
<benste> persia: and who does have access to private bugs - only package maintainers ?
<persia> No, the bot just can't read the bug any more than you can.
<persia> Only subscribers.
<persia> For crash bugs, there's a team that gets automatically subscribed.
<benste> sry - posted the wrong url - this one should be the old https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.5/+bug/505186
<hyperair> i remember managing to see private bugs for ubuntu
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: list index out of range (https://launchpad.net/bugs/505857)
<persia> I've just checked the bug in question, but there is a note asking it to stay private, so I shan't open or expose it.
<benste> ah - as it is a duplicate it's linking to the new one right ?
<benste> persia: thanks for checking
<persia> benste: No useful information in the bug yet: just automatic data and waiting for analysis.
<benste> k
<benste> I'll try  sudo apt-get purge firefox && sudo apt-get install firefox
<persia> benste: In future, I'll suggest that you might get faster information about bug management from #ubuntu-bugs, and you might want to check with #ubuntu-mozillateam about mozilla packages (like firefox).
<benste> :-) thx - just remebered motu :-)
<persia> benste: The private bug includes the text "Creating a new profile does not solve the issue."
<benste> yip that's what I've tested to
<benste> persia: if you'll have time to care a bout it you may want to participate to my discussion on #ubuntu
<persia> Given that purge/reinstall doesn't even do that (as it doesn't change anything in your home directory), I very much doubt that will help at all, but you might want to check with someone who knows better (see references above)
<benste> i#ll do
 * persia doesn't really, sorry
<porthose> Release Team: Are bug fix uploads for universe packages still being accepted?  I have a fix for bug #558697 (minor change to preinst and postinst) would it be ok to upload this fix?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 558697 in ampache "package ampache 3.5.4-1ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/558697
<persia> Yes.
 * persia isn't on the release team, but knows the answer.
<porthose> persia, thx :)
<persia> porthose: I believe the criteria for bugfixes is rapidly approaching "stuff that would qualify for SRU".
<persia> And if the change is potentially invasive, or may need more time to verify the fix is correct, the release team might say "Please publish as SRU".
<persia> But *every* upload is being reviewed now, so be sure to get your bugs filed, and describe them clearly, etc.
 * carstenh just realised that the name of the next enterprise editition will start with Q ;)
<persia> Not necessarily.
<persia> There was no "A" or "C", for example.  No promises other letters won't be skipped along the way.
<persia> Also, prior to Breezy, the letters weren't used in order, so no promises that each name is in order.
<persia> And lastly, the letter "H" has been used twice, so no promises other letters won't be used multiple times.
<carstenh> well, the reason seems to be that nobody thought of alphabetically sorting the release names before dapper
<ScottK> geser wins the FTBFS fixing award for the day.
<ScottK> Thanks geser (all accepted)
<ScottK> porthose: persia is correct.  Please get stuff uploaded.
<porthose> ScottK, uploaded
<ScottK> If it was ampache, I'm looking at it now.
<porthose> yes
<ScottK> porthose: Looking at the diff, the second hunk of change in the postinst and the postrm change look like they are white space only changes.  Is that right?
<porthose> ScottK, yes
<ScottK> OK.  As a rule, it's nice to avoid those as it complicates the reviewers work.
<porthose> k
<ScottK> porthose: accepted.
<porthose> ScottK, thx
<ScottK> If there are any emacs users around: Could you have a look at anjsp?  It currently fails to build, but that's easy enough to fix.  The question is does it work?  It's old enough that it uses the delightfully quaint debhelper compat of 3.  It wasn't in Debian and looks like one of those ancient packages grabbed from some random source in the early mists of Ubuntu's history.
<geser> ScottK: syncs are still accepted? (sync a package from Debian unstable to build with the default postgresql)
<ScottK> geser: Yes.
<persia> Needs someone to actually process the syncs and removals though.  Maybe we'll get lucky Monday.
<persia> (because Tuesday verges on too late)
<ScottK> persia: We discussed it the last release team meeting and I have commitments for availability tomorrow and Monday.
<ScottK> persia: Now the driver for stopping uploads is mirror sync and that only needs ~24 hours before release, so we can keep going longer.
<ScottK> (security-in-soyuz was very helpful in this regard)
<persia> Oh, that's an improvement on last time I was paying close attention as the release hardened.  Nice!
<persia> (and it makes me feel a bit better about falling asleep before finishing the stuff I'm doing increasingly more slowly tonight)
<geser> ScottK: a next batch of fixes for gtk related FTBFS will appear soon in the queue
<ScottK> geser: Great.  Those are easy enough to review ....
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> persia: I have a fix for the "missing icon" wesnoth bug in my git.
<ScottK> persia: Perhaps ^^^ could be combined with the -3 from Debian and uploaded as a merge.
<Rhonda> ScottK: Yes, would make much sense, I fear I won't upload to Debian just because of that yet again.
<Rhonda> 1.8.1 might come out soon and I want to give people a bit time to test it in Debian.
<ScottK> Understand.
<ScottK> If you can find a MOTU to upload it, I can review it for the release team.
<Rhonda> persia said he wanted to give it a try. :)
<Rhonda> â¦ and someone else, IIRC.
<Rhonda> Ah, slytherin also thought about giving -3 a try.
<Rhonda> The changes in git for -4 can be reviewed just through the diff, I highly doubt that those require an extra build to test them. :)
<ScottK> persia also said something about going to sleep, so perhaps he'll do it 'tomorrow'
<Rhonda> That was two days ago, but that's not meant as a preassure or complaint statement, just trying to point out what I perceived.
<ScottK> Understood.
<ScottK> I didn't get to getting a set of package syncs together yesterday like I had hoped.  It's on my list again for today.
<Rhonda> Am a bit short on time right now, am at the LinuxTage event over here in austria and rather should care for the booth. ;)
<ScottK> Understand.
<ScottK> I think there's more than enough in the backscroll now for persia when he wakes up.
<Rhonda> e65b3e0a is the commit for the desktop file in wesnoth.git on git.debian.org
<Rhonda> But I'm confident that persia will find that. :)
<ScottK> If someone is looking for something productive to do, gnome-gmail-notifier is currently totally broken and there's a new upstream release that will fix that.
<dutchie> ScottK: I'll have a punt at it
<ScottK> OK
<imbrandon> dutchie: lemme know if you get stuck on anything , i'll give ya a hand
<imbrandon> moins all
<imbrandon> ScottK: not gonna be in/arround KC next weekend are ya ? heheh j/k
<ScottK> imbrandon: Nope.  I'll be flying over on Friday.  I'm in CA for work all next week.
<imbrandon> ScottK: ahh cool
<imbrandon> brb gotta go make sure my pot of caffeine is on
<imbrandon> ScottK: but yea, was just getting a keysigning / release party thing going for the 30th, dident figure ya'd be in the area but ya never know ;)
<ScottK> Sure.
<ScottK> FYI, there are release team members available for reviews and no Universe packages waiting ....
<imbrandon> cool give me about ~10 min to resetup pidgin ( reinstalled lucid on this laptop last night ) and i'll get some crackin
<dutchie> is there a better solution to make debuild find the .orig.tar.bz2 file than bunzip2'ing it and just gzipping it again? the debuild man page doesn't seem that helpful
<maco> dutchie: long way round is how i always do it
<geser> dutchie: v1 or v3 source package?
<dutchie> don't know
<dutchie> it says version=3 in debian/watch
<geser> does debian/source/format exist? if yes => v3, else v1
<dutchie> v1 then
<geser> and only v3 allows .orig.tar.bz2
<ari-tczew> geser: does v2 exist?
<ScottK> It does but it should not be used
<ScottK> It we never really deployed
<geser> only on paper, see "man dpkg-source"
<POX> geser: what about "1.0" in debian/source/format? ;-P
<ScottK> POX: I think it's dangerous and should be avoided
<POX> what is dangerous?
<geser> POX: you are right, I hope that's not common
 * POX was reffering to "does debian/source/format exist? if yes => v3, else v1"
<ScottK> POX: The mistaken belief that the absence of debian/source/format can mean anything other than it should be a v1 format.
<POX> did I say something about that?
<ScottK> POX: But your point about having to inspect the contents of the file to determine the version is correct.
<ScottK> POX: No, I misread your initial comment.
<POX> ok
<ScottK> ajmitch: You are listed as a bug contact for krb5-auth-dialog.  I'm hoping that means you have some interest in the package.  The current one we have needs a newer heimdal that is in Lucid.  I was wondering if you could have a look at it and see what we need to do (I suspect revert to an earlier version of the package).
<imbrandon> ScottK: we got a list of universe with patches i can lookat/test ?
<ScottK> imbrandon: My recommendation would be work on http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<imbrandon> k
<ScottK> geser hit a large stack of the GTK deprecation issues already
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> checking the build-deps for gnome-gmail-notifier, the configure.ac has "GNOME_KEYRING_REQUIRED=0.4.2", which is nothing like the libgnome-keyring-dev package version
<dutchie> what version should I put in the Build-Depends line?
<imbrandon> dutchie: looks like an upstream bug/typo
<imbrandon> err maybe not
<dutchie> maybe not?
<imbrandon> well it does look like a typo, but thats whats listed on the webpage too as a depends
<imbrandon> sooooo
<imbrandon> and the current control dosent mention the keyring ....
<imbrandon> hum hum hum
<imbrandon> ( but has the same requirement )
<ScottK> YokoZar: I think a new wine1.2 upload that conflicts/replaces wine << 1.1.42-0ubuntu4 and a new upload of wine 1:1.0.1-0ubuntu12 would DTRT and leave current wine1.2 users with wine1.2, but allow the wine package to upload.  What do you think?
<imbrandon> does one of the other build depends pull in keyring ?
<imbrandon> ScottK: ewww epoch mess ?
<dutchie> I just pulled out the dependency and got that intltool is too old
<dutchie> configure: error: Your intltool is too old.  You need intltool 0.35.0 or later.
<Laney> what's the problem?
<Laney> it'll be a >= dependency
<dutchie> there wasn't a dependency at all, that was the problem :)
<imbrandon> dutchie: lemme grab the source and have a closer look, give me a few and i'll get back to ya
<Laney> was it being pulled in by something else?
<dutchie> didn't seem sot
<dutchie> so*
<Laney> must have been
<dutchie> I've added an explicit dep now
<Laney> Selecting previously deselected package libgnome-keyring-dev.
<Laney> Unpacking libgnome-keyring-dev (from .../libgnome-keyring-dev_2.27.90-0ubuntu1_i386.deb) ...
<dutchie> No package 'gnome-keyring-1' found
<dutchie> but it's supper now, back in a bit
<Laney> libgnome-keyring-dev installs /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gnome-keyring-1.pc
<imbrandon> dutchie: i would send a patch upstream too that mentions the configure.ac keyring requirement should be like 2.30.0 ( or something close to that )
<Laney> why?
<imbrandon> because it is now 0.4.2 witch is very wrong
<Laney> I don't see why that is wrong
<imbrandon> gnome keyring hasent been at version 0.4.2 in YEARS well before gnome-gmail-notifier ever existied, if it was ever at 0.4.2 ( it corrosoponds with the gnome version does it not )
<Laney> I don't see why you should second guess upstream's compatibility assessment without evidence that it's not right
<Laney> (there was indeed a version 0.4.2 in the past)
<imbrandon> Laney: because doing upstream developemt myself i know that things can easily slip through the cracks like this, and it seems very out of place, it wont hurt to send a note to them, i'm not saying i'm 100% right, i'm saying verify it
<Laney> maybe you should try to build it against 0.4.2 and see what breaks
<imbrandon> Laney: maybe i should , but an email is just as easy , why the hostility ?
<Laney> I don't think I'm being hostile :(
<Laney> but you seem to have decided that this is probably wrong when there is every chance that it's not
<imbrandon> okies, i took the conversation wrong then, no worries, anyhow was just a sugestion
<imbrandon> no i decided it warented a further look, nothing more
<imbrandon> it *seemed* wrong ;)
<imbrandon> but alas , lets get on with some real work, no need to drag this out more, we're both clear now ;)
<dutchie> back
<lfaraone> Right now GroundControl isn't working due to a change in the LP API. Upstream worked around this by embedding a WebKit frame to handle authentication in a way that won't break in the future. Upstream changelog is at http://sprunge.us/TFSS , would a FFe be sane at this point? (since we're looking at "package does not work at all")
<imbrandon> lfaraone: can the change be cherry picked ?
<lfaraone> imbrandon: maybe. let me see.
<imbrandon> if its easy/sane to cherry pick it, i would say thats the way to go, but if not a FFe could be warented IMHO ( but i'm not in a position to make that call )
<dutchie> I'm sure it said that libgnome-keyring-dev was uninstallable earlier
<lfaraone> imbrandon: mk. if we don't currently use a patch system, can we patch the source directly?
<ScottK> lfaraone: Since it's a new package, there's no risk of regression, so if upstream would prefer to go with the new release, I'm fine with that.
<ScottK> lfaraone: So please file FFe and get doctormo to ask for it in the bug.
<lfaraone> ScottK: awesome, thanks. (it was on my request that he put out 1.6 so we wouldn't have to pick from bzr)
<lfaraone> ScottK: should I amend the existing "lp is broken by everything!" bug, or author a new one?
<ScottK> lfaraone: Existing bug is fine.
<imbrandon> ahh did not realize it was a new-to-lucid package
<imbrandon> i'm 0-2 today it seems :)
<dutchie> ooh, it's built
<dutchie> seems to run too
<dutchie> imbrandon: where should I upload it to?
<imbrandon> the new version ? is there an open bug?
<dutchie> not afaik
<dutchie> all I know is what ScottK said
<imbrandon> open a bug with all the FFe info if there is not one ( ScottK mentioned that it fixed current problems so there might be one open already ) then attach the debdif between whats in the repo now and yours
<dutchie> righto
<imbrandon> then give me the bug number and i'll check it / sponsor if neeeded
<ScottK> imbrandon and dutchie: Actually for a new upstream we wan't the diff.gz in the bug.  The sponsor should fetch the tarball themselves
<lfaraone> Is anybody familiar with update-notifier's syntax? I'm trying to use a command of "Command: nautilus --quit & nohup nautilus -n &" and it's not working.
<imbrandon> ScottK: i was going to ;)
<dutchie> bug 521185
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 521185 in gnome-gmail-notifier "gnome-gmail-notifier: Depends: libsoup2.2-8 (>= 2.2.98) but it is not installable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521185
<dutchie> that look right?
<imbrandon> that looks like a start, it will need to have the FFe stuff added
<dutchie> should I do that?
<lfaraone> dutchie: yes.
<dutchie> ok
<DktrKranz> imbrandon: did you get to upload apt-mirror then?
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: no its still fubared in dak, i'm just going to do a few more fixes and release a new upstream version
<imbrandon> that will fix most everything
<imbrandon> the important fixes i uploaded to ubuntu as -0ubuntu1 so we'll be golden
<DktrKranz> nice
<DktrKranz> btw, old files are still in unchecked, I wonder what the heck happened
<lfaraone> imbrandon: could you please upload the SRU detailed in bug 301190 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301190 in etoys "etoys does not launch" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301190
<lfaraone> (if you have a chance)
<imbrandon> lfaraone: sure, i'll look in just a moment
<lfaraone> imbrandon: awesome, thanks.
<imbrandon> wow its broken all the way back to intrepid ? heh
<lfaraone> ScottK: by the way, are you a DD? If so, I'd greatly appreciate it if you could sponsor http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/groundcontrol/groundcontrol_1.6-1.dsc so I can sync it rather than introducing an Ubuntu delta.
<lfaraone> imbrandon: unloved stepchild of debian-edu and Ubuntu's sugarteam :)
<ScottK> lfaraone: I'm not
<lfaraone> imbrandon:  I don't think it was in hardy, btw. So we've never shipped a working etoys, it looks like.
<DktrKranz> lfaraone: if you need one, I am
<lfaraone> DktrKranz: much appreciated, see the above dsc.
<lfaraone> DktrKranz: (DMUA is set in that upload, feel free to unset it if you don't feel comfortable having it that way)
<DktrKranz> lfaraone: I'll leave that out for the moment, thanks for the hint
<DktrKranz> lfaraone: should I run debian/rules get-orig-source to fetch upstream tarball, or just uscan?
<lfaraone> DktrKranz: uscan.
<DktrKranz> oki
<DktrKranz> lfaraone: uploading
<lfaraone> DktrKranz: thanks.
<DktrKranz> it will be accepted in ~13 minutes
<imbrandon> ScottK: when uploading to proposed i dont have to include a orig.tar.gz correct ?
<imbrandon> assuming same upstream ver etc
<ScottK> imbrandon: That's correct.
<imbrandon> k
<ScottK> Other than using up more bandwidth, it doesn't actually hurt.
<ScottK> Unlike in Debian, Soyuz won't reject for that
<imbrandon> yea, its a huge orig.at.gz and i have to upload it ~3 times, so i would rather not if not needed
<imbrandon> lol yea i figutred that out the hard way on DAK
<imbrandon> figured*
 * DktrKranz hides
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<imbrandon> :)
<ScottK> BTW, if you get the gmail notifier thing sorted, go ahead and upload.  Don't wait for the FFe.
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> i'm just waiting on dutchie to tell me its redy to check it
<imbrandon> ;)
 * ScottK nods
<ScottK> No pressure dutchie.
<imbrandon> wow i cant type today ( well most dayss, but its bad today )
<dutchie> wonderful
<imbrandon> dutchie: :)
<dutchie> I'm going to be honest and say that I don't really have much of a clue what I'm doing
<dutchie> I've got https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess up
<dutchie> do I need to open a new bug?
<imbrandon> dutchie: no worries, just ask, umm basicly at this point you need to ....
<imbrandon> open the bug you linked earlier
<imbrandon> do a testbuild localy
<imbrandon> then attach your diff.gz to the bug
<imbrandon> then
<imbrandon> *looking at what info is there or not, one sec*
 * ScottK loves these verbose debian/changelog entries: "   * Redo packaging."
<imbrandon> actualy i dont have the bug open anymore, just make sure that the bug has that info and i'll fill in the rest and let you know what i did for future ref
<dutchie> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-gmail-notifier/+bug/521185
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 521185 in gnome-gmail-notifier "gnome-gmail-notifier: Depends: libsoup2.2-8 (>= 2.2.98) but it is not installable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dutchie> so I'ev attached the diff.gz
<imbrandon> k, that should be good enough for me to look at, if the bug is lacking more info i'll add it when i check the diff
<imbrandon> i started this sru upload so give me about ~10 min to re-open it
<dutchie> ok
<imbrandon> lfaraone: sru uploaded
<imbrandon> make sure to watch the bugs for it etc
<lfaraone> imbrandon: of course. thanks.
<ajmitch> ScottK: I'll take a look at krb5-auth-dialog again, I'd noticed that it was wanting a newer heimdal
<ScottK> ajmitch: Thank you.
<ajmitch> iirc it was dragged in with the autosync back in february
<ScottK> Sounds right.
<ajmitch> it may be possible to keep the current version & build against MIT krb5, I'll upload it in a few hours if that's the case
 * ajmitch has to head out for a bit this morning 
<imbrandon> fsck !!
<imbrandon> ScottK: can you reject that gnome-gmail-notifier upload please
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you did an oops?
<dutchie> anything to do with me?
 * ajmitch heads out, will upload later
<imbrandon> dutchie: no i included the wrong orig with the upload
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yes :(
<imbrandon> ScottK: if you would lemme know when thats rejected and i'll re-upload the correct way
<ScottK> imbrandon: Done
<imbrandon> ScottK: ty
<imbrandon> ScottK / dutchie : ok correct files uploaded
 * imbrandon lunches
<lfaraone> ScottK: FFe requested for bug 527978.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527978 in groundcontrol "Please sync groundcontrol 1.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main). [Launchpad now using openid breaks login]" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527978
<ScottK> lfaraone: Please put the usual FFe stuff in there including the testing you've done with it.
<lfaraone> ScottK: never mind, looks like upstream has come across a moderately-important bug with login. (not blocker, from what I can tell)
<ScottK> lfaraone: OK.  Once you're ready update the bug and upload.  No need to wait for the FFe to upload.
<lfaraone> ScottK: well, I'm not a MOTU, or I would :)
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> upload/get it uploaded
<Quartz> hello
<Quartz> lucas: can you make a patch in order to have rubyripper functional has it should be (like on ubuntu 9.04 and 9.10)
<Quartz> When it compare the wav extraction from a same track, it hangs; normalyy it should need only one second. Sometimes it takes 10minutes.
<Quartz> Imagine when a CD has 30 tracks :(
<Quartz> http://rubyripper.googlecode.com/files/rubyripper-0.5.7.tar.bz2
<YokoZar> ScottK: the other option is what we have in my PPA.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-25
<ajmitch> ScottK: uploaded krb5-auth-dialog, tell me if the changelog needs to be clearer :)
<YokoZar> ScottK: ping
<imbrandon> quiet night
<imbrandon> and i think i may have the stomach flu or have eaten something bad at lunch, unfortunately i think its the former as its accompanied by a feaver
<imbrandon> fun fun
<ScottK> imbrandon: Great.  Then you aren't out partying and can upload fixes.
<micahg> imbrandon: sorry to hear that
<imbrandon> ScottK: yup yup, just might go MIA for a few to head to the b-room unexpectedly
<ScottK> imbrandon: Isn't that was laptops are for?
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> besides his list anything buggin ya specificly ?
<ScottK> imbrandon: The FTBFS stuff bugs me.
<micahg> ScottK: so, can we fix FTBFS after release?
<ScottK> micahg: We can, but there's more verification requirements then.
<ScottK> Better to do it now than have a security issue and an FTBFS to figure out at the same time.
<micahg> ScottK: I know, but I'm limited on time ATM :)
<ScottK> Understood.
<micahg> still trying to get Seamonkey in :)
<ScottK> That's definitely the priority.
<micahg> imbrandon: do you use Seamonkey at all?
<imbrandon> nope
<micahg> imbrandon: k
<imbrandon> i can test something if needed but i dont
<micahg> imbrandon: I need some upgrade testing done for Seamonkey if you're up for it and nothing else is pressing
<imbrandon> micahg: sure, sorry had one of my unexpected afk's
<micahg> imbrandon: k
<imbrandon> just lemme know where i can get the binarys
<micahg> imbrandon: wanna hop in #ubuntu-mozillateam?
<imbrandon> sure
<imbrandon> ScottK: ok so i picked my poison a little bit ago form the FTBFS list
<imbrandon> and boy did i pick a doosey
<ScottK> imbrandon: Excellent.
<imbrandon> so i got a "what would you do in this situation" question
<ScottK> Well you should leave the easy ones for the new people.
<ScottK> OK
<imbrandon> its apt-rpm
<imbrandon> it build and runtime depends on rpm ( oviously ) among other things
<imbrandon> well rpm got updates and changed its ABI/API
<imbrandon> soooo i went to see if its just a small delta
<imbrandon> and the apt-rpm website says we're ( along with debian ) using a version thats ~4 years old
<imbrandon> the "newest" version is late ~2008, and it does fix the problem
<imbrandon> sooo question is ... big honken FFe since even though its installable ( because it built with the old rpm a long time ago ) it wont rebuild
<imbrandon> or ummm ... back away slowly ;)
<ScottK> imbrandon: If it's broken as in not working, I'm amenable to an update
<imbrandon> k, yea its both a build and runtime dep, there is no way it works now, not even kinda
<imbrandon> i'm suprised its this far behind, like ~4 years and 5ish releases
<ScottK> Please fix.
<ScottK> I'm just about to be offline for a while.  Please work it out and upload the thing you think is best.  I'll review later.
<imbrandon> yup doing it now, and i was just curious when the breakage occured, it looks like beginign of karmic, so little to no chance of regression since its been broke a full cycle
<imbrandon> ScottK: kk
<StevenK> Two full cycles
<imbrandon> err yea
<imbrandon> heya StevenK
<ScottK> Heya StevenK.  There's a fair sized stack of removal bugs waiting for some archive admin with shell access to pull the trigger....
<ScottK> imbrandon: I'm no home and going to bed.  I'll check in tomorrow, but don't wait for approval to upload, just document all the situation, testing, etc in a good bug/FFe request.
<|Quartz|> lucas: Rubyripper is hanging when it compares the 2 extracts of a track, and sometimes hangs before to convert the extract into flac.
<|Quartz|> Do you know how to solve this problem? Is it possible to go back to the ruby/dependancies packages of ubuntu 9.10?
<|Quartz|> lucas:  Hello. I have found a solution for rubyripper: to use the graphic interface to scan the disc and modify if needed the info such as title, author, track name..., then I launch the extraction and cancel it. In that way, all these info are stored in the rubyripper database. After, I launch the text client rubyripper_cli.rb which is as fast as the gtk interface in ubuntu 9.10
<|Quartz|> That mean that the ruby bug turns around the graphical interface, isn't it?
<c_korn> it is not possible to provide (referring to the debian/control Provides: field) a specific version of a package, is it ?
<c_korn> ok, the Debian policy answers it: "All of the fields except for Provides may restrict their applicability to particular versions of each named package."
<carstenh> c_korn: use provides: bla-with-ssl-support or similar as workaround. the debian developers reference should tell you the same as i did
<persia> Ugh
<carstenh> persia: do you have a better idea?
<persia> Try *really* hard never to need that sort of Provides? :)
<carstenh> indeed, this is a better one :)
<c_korn> the concrete problem is that there is a fork of gimp called painters studio (http://github.com/foxbunny/Painters-Studio-Ubuntu/tree/0.1-2foxbunny/painters-studio-0.1/debian/) which also provides the libgimp2.0 libraries (but modified versions). and because 0.1 < 2.6.8 (the gimp version)the gimp package is chosen. so the packager wanted to say that the library package in painters studio provides version 1.6.8 of libgimp. I told him to rename
<c_korn> the package and the libraries to be independent of the libgimp2.0 package.
<c_korn> s/1\.6\.8/2\.6\.8/
<ScottK> It would be handy if there were a MOTU that could look into Bug #555111 and make a concrete recommendation on what to do.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 555111 in xmltv "Sync xmltv 0.5.56+cvs20100328-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/555111
<slytherin> Rhonda: persia: I could not install wesnoth packages. It requires newer libfontconfig1 package. :-(
<ScottK> c_korn: Versioned provides are not supported.
<c_korn> ScottK: I know. we were talking about alternatives :)
<persia> slytherin: OK.  Thanks for trying.  I'll do a quick test.  Rhonda: are you comfortable with a quick test, or do you want to go through the post-release update process and get a bit more testing?
<ScottK> OK.
<slytherin> ScottK: A quick look tells me it will require FFe.
<ScottK> slytherin: OK.  So the next question would be is it worth it or should we stick with what we have.  I see that there are references to a lot of bugs fixed.
<slytherin> ScottK: Checking
<ScottK> I see it's in the mythbuntu task too, so we should ask superm1 if it's still wanted.
<persia> c_korn: Are the libraries ABI compatible?  If so, then just don't use the painters studio one.  If not, rename the painters studio one.
<c_korn> persia: they may be ABI compatible. but upstream told they fixed lots of bugs.so it rather sounds like also gimp should use the painter studio ones :)
<slytherin> is LP slow only for me?
<slytherin> ScottK: Syncing 0.5.57-1 (from unstable) is not possible because as it adds a build dependency not available in Ubuntu. As to 0.5.56+cvs20100328-1 from testing (which fixes bug #544522), I am more inclined towards an SRU at this stage in release cycle.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544522 in xmltv "[lucid] latest version of Date::Manip breaks tv_grab_uk_rt " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544522
<persia> c_korn: Don't support that behaviour from upstream: if there are ABI-compatible bugfixes, get those back into the upstream library, and have the client use that.
<ScottK> slytherin: Thanks.  Please put that in the bug.
<slytherin> ScottK: Of course superm1's opinion is more important than me considering he must be familiar with the package.
<ScottK> Yes, but that's more than I knew before.  I appreciate you looking.
<c_korn> persia: ok, will tell them.
<slytherin> ScottK: Added same comment in bug.
<ScottK> thanks.
 * slytherin will be back in half hour.
<c_korn> hm, I am getting an undefined reference (compiling flightgear 2.0): http://paste.debian.net/70570 the symbol should be defined there but it is set as undefined: http://paste.debian.net/70571
<c_korn> I think debian/sorules needs to be updated
<ScottK> Could someone look at iptotal and make the adjustments so it will work with the autotools-dev version we have in lucid?
<persia> Rhonda: Just FYI: -4 contains changes to 02wesnoth-nolog-desktop-file.in which patch isn't actually in series: I'll apply them in -3ubuntu1 without adding to series, but you might want to double-check for when you actually push -4.
<ScottK> vdr-plugin-epgsearch looks like it needs the GCC 4.4 fix that was in 0.9.24-6 and ought to be hidden in http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-vdr-dvb/vdr/vdr-plugin-epgsearch/trunk/ somewhere
<callum1> hi i am looking for advice on helping develop for Ubuntu.
<persia> callum1: What sort of stuff do you like to do?
<callum1> hi persia. I am a java developer of two years at sun microsystems. Not sure if there is any call for a java developer however I am happy to pick up any language that is of and help
<persia> There's lots of good stuff a Java developer could do: we have a bundle of Java programs, and some of them have bugs.
<persia> Not all the bugs are in the Java, of course: some are in shell scripts, make files, etc.
<callum1> I am also fairly adept at scripting so this would not be an issue. I guess my main question is how do I get involved?
<persia> Well, we're really close to release, so looking for bugs that would be considered release-critical.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=java is a list of about 1000 java-related bugs: you might find a couple in there.
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing talks a bit about getting involved in this team.
<persia> For Java, we also work closely with the Debian Java team: there's a channel about packaging Java in Ubuntu (#ubuntu-java), and the Debian Java folks usually are in #debian-java on OFTC.
<persia> The general model is: 1) find an issue, 2) fix it, 3) present a patch somewhere, 4) integrate some patches into packaging, 5) get a sponsor to upload your freshly improved package, 6) find another issue
<persia> We tend to prefer unified diff patches or bzr branches (choice between these is up to you).
<persia> And if you have any questions along the way: just ask.
<callum1> ok great. Thanks for your help ill dive into those bugs and see if there is anything I can do.
<callum1> will look up packaging etc once i get something worth proposing as a fix
<persia> Good luck.  If you find one that looks interesting, but isn't release critical, you can work on that too.  We should be starting the next release in a bit over a week, and can apply a fix there.  Bonus points for fixing RC stuff though.
<callum1> :)
<persia> Once you know how to fix something, just ask, and we can help you get it integrated, and point to the specific bits about packaging you need to know along the way.  If you go try to learn how to package first, you'll either get stuck for months learning everything, or not happen to learn the packaging technique used for the package you're patching (there are an arbitrary number (potentially infinite) ways to correctly write the packaging scripts)
 * persia sprinkles in some prepositions and articles
<callum1> yeah, seeing as this is my first shot at this i will take it one step at a time. no doubt you will see me in here again looking for packaging help :)
<persia> Excellent!
<debfx> ScottK: fix for iptotal: http://pastebin.com/V4KKGY67
 * persia applies and starts a test-build
<persia> debfx: Is there a bug open?
<geser> persia: no, only a pending "request" in this channel
<persia> debfx: `wget -O- http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=V4KKGY67 | patch -p1` in the lucid iptotal source fails: http://pastebin.com/nauE5Tq0
<debfx> persia: I think you need to use http://pastebin.com/download.php?i=nauE5Tq0
<debfx> raw.php outputs html *sigh*
<debfx> persia: ehh this one: http://pastebin.com/download.php?i=V4KKGY67
<persia> still get "patch: **** malformed patch at line 68:"
<persia> (and yeah, I switched the record ID)
<ScottK> persia: It's an FTBFS from lucas last rebuild test.
<debfx> persia: this should work: http://debfx.fobos.de/iptotal_0.3.3-12ubuntu1.debdiff
<debfx> is there any decent pastebin out there? :/
<Quartz> hello.
<persia> Right.  If it had had a bug number, I'd have wanted the bug listed in the changelog, and have pulled the patch from there.
<persia> debfx: Thanks.  Worked great.
<ScottK> debfx: If you're up for more, vdr-plugin-extrecmenu has a similar FTBFS, but isn't in Debian so there's no patch to cherrypick.
<ScottK>  ./common/mmx.h:88:3: error: #error Sorry, your GCC does not exist. <-- fun.
<ScottK> That's rte
<persia> debfx: iptotal uploaded
<carstenh> debfx: paste.debian.net?
<ScottK> debfx and persia: iptotal accepted.  Thanks.
<imbrandon> ScottK: ugh apt-rpm is a big fat mess, i'm wondering if my time isnt better spent on something else at this point and leave that for a sru
 * imbrandon is still working on it thougbh
<ScottK> imbrandon: If you can get it up from totally broken to not-totally broken now and maybe an SRU or so later I think it's worth doing now.
<ScottK> The bureacracy associated with major package updates post release is painful.
<imbrandon> very true
<imbrandon> ive got it working now, but backporting some of the patches are a pita ( and still needed )
<imbrandon> well working as in it builds and installs
<ScottK> OK.  Progress.
<imbrandon> but umm i wouldent "use"
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> its kinda funny as its ment to replace ( well not replace but .... no better word ) apt , but the patches make it so it can be installed side by side on a system like debian that has apt natively
<imbrandon> so some of the patches are "fun"
<imbrandon> btw not that anyone cares but i babble alot anyhow, my stomach issues from yesterday are gone , woot, thankfully it was just a 24hour bug/bad food
<persia> Great News!
<directhex> i've been pretty ropey all week
<imbrandon> yea, i had went from feeling great at lunch yesterday to vometing and such 2 hours later, was not fun
<imbrandon> but i think it was ill prepared fish i had for lunch, thats what it is seeming like at this point
<slytherin> a bit off topic for this channel but does anyone know how well Japanese input/fonts work in Ubuntu?
<persia> Works fine.
<persia> I have certain knowledge that a minimum of tens of thousands of people use it daily.
<slytherin> persia: That is great. And how hard is it for setting up by someone who has no knowledge of Japanese for someone who has no knowledge of Ubuntu?
<persia> Trivial, if the default environment for the computer will be Japanese.
<persia> Otherwise you have to fiddle with language-support
<slytherin> persia: The default will be English.
<slytherin> persia: would you be able to provide help if I face problems?
<persia> As available as I ever am, sure.
<slytherin> thanks
<c_korn> hm, setup.py installs libs into debian/radiotray/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages but with python-support the files are not there after the package installation and therefore the main python script cannot find its libraries. what am I missing ?
<imbrandon> sudo reboot
<imbrandon> err
<debfx> persia: could you sponsor two more ftbfs fixes: bug #569917 and bug #569928
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569917 in vdr-plugin-extrecmenu "FTBFS with gcc 4.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569928 in vdr-plugin-epgsearch "FTBFS with gcc 4.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569928
<ajmitch> debfx: thanks for fixing iptotal, I think I'd screwed up in having an unclean build environment there :)
<debfx> ajmitch: I only use pbuilder for package building :)
<ajmitch> so do I usually, except when pbuilder had refused to upgrade the chroot
<ajmitch> it required a bit of manual fiddling which I didn't want to do at the time
<ajmitch> it was bug 566194 that was biting me :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566194 in mountall "Could not perform immediate configuration. In schroot." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566194
<debfx> ScottK: the package svk should be removed from the archive. it's not installable as it depends on the removed libsvn-mirror-perl package.
<ajmitch> why was libsvn-mirror-perl removed though?
<debfx> (From Debian) ROM; Dead upstream; Debian bug #554336
<ubottu> Debian bug 554336 in ftp.debian.org "RM: libsvn-mirror-perl -- ROM; Dead upstream" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/554336
<ajmitch> hm, looks like it was dead upstream, and svk really should be removed as well
<ajmitch> I think ubuntu-archive needs to be subscribed to a removal request, at least to have a record of it on LP
<Laney> might be a bit late for subscriptions
<ajmitch> possibly, but it's worth doing that while still pinging people on IRC about it
<Laney> right
<ajmitch> given that it's gone from sid, it would probably have been cleaned up in maverick anyway
<debfx> ScottK: bug #568850
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568850 in svk "SVK package is broken in Lucid (can't install)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568850
 * jdong notices a slight parallel between opencv python bindings and hamsters....
 * ajmitch wonders if lingot should be synced to a new upstream version that actually works
<persia> debfx: ajmitch: autoremovals from sid haven't been processed since DIF: it needs manual bugs.  There's about 30 removals in the queue, and someone volunteered to process them on (German) Monday, so file away and subscribe ubuntu-archve.  Removal bugs need an ACK from someone with upload rights to the package to be accepted.
<persia> debfx: Best practice to get sponsored is to subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to the bug.  I'll hit these now, but I'm running into time constraints soon, so you might have better luck just getting it on the sponsors list.
<persia> (for new ones you might add)
 * ajmitch has acked the svk removal bug, fwiw
 * persia grumbles about packages that can't clean without extra packages being installed
<ajmitch>  103 files changed, 35194 insertions(+), 134494 deletions(-)
 * micahg hides
 * ajmitch really doesn't want to have to put in a FFe for that
<persia> micahg: You may have noticed I've never sponsored a package for you: there's a background to that :)
<ajmitch> java is bad? :)
<micahg> persia: really, I haven't noticed...
<micahg> persia: I'll have to find something worthy for you to sponsor next cycle
<persia> ajmitch: I've found that on the edges of universe, for "completely fails to work", FFes are gladly granted.
<ajmitch> persia: this is a music tuner (lingot) that apparantly doesn't work with ALSA, in the version in lucid :)
<persia> ajmitch: Java only requires a JDK and ant, which are basically build tools.  It's not like special foo-dev-tools
<persia> micahg: No rush :)
<persia> ajmitch: So, does not work, yeah?
<ajmitch> pretty much
<ajmitch> it's just the size of that debdiff that makes me wince
<persia> And it doesn't have a pulse or jack interface?
<persia> Anything care about the interface other than users?
<ajmitch> pulse/jack interface was added in the new upstream version
<ajmitch> I haven't tested this yet, I just saw it on the rc bugs list & read about its issues
<persia> Sounds like if you don't do an FFe, you have to do an SRU.  FFe is probably easier.
<ajmitch> probably much easier
<ajmitch> testbuild time
<lfaraone> DktrKranz: sorry to bother, but upstream put out a new point release (.5) in response to some showstopper bug fixes. New dsc is at http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/groundcontrol/groundcontrol_1.6.5-1.dsc
 * persia curses roundly, sqaurely, and in several other shapes about SONAME bumps and depwaits
<debfx> ajmitch: I think debian-edu-config should be removed too. It depends on etcinsvk, overwrites /etc/lsb-release and generally isn't useful on ubuntu anyway.
<ajmitch> yeah, at least that one is still actively developed
<ajmitch> I agree that it's possibly not useful (at all), along with debian-edu-install
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-18
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> a friend just told me about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fabric/+bug/738669 - is anybody interested in fixing this one for natty?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 738669 in fabric (Ubuntu) "fabric broken in natty" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dholbach> nevermind, I'll have a look at it myself :)
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fabric/+bug/764310 has a sync bug for debian - it'd be nice if somebody from the release team could have a look
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 764310 in fabric (Ubuntu) "Please sync fabric 0.9.3-1 from Debian sid" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<toabctl> does the behavior for the middle mouse button changed in natty? i can no longer use it to copy text..
<ajmitch> dholbach: sid doesn't have fabric 1.0?
<ajmitch> hm, it doesn't, that's a shame
<dholbach> ajmitch, 0.9.3 might be easier to get in considering being that close to release
<ajmitch> dholbach: right, it's just unfortunately not the stable release :)
 * dholbach nods
<dholbach> can somebody review the lp:ubuntu-packaging-guide merge proposals please?
<iulian> Ah! Was so close! Apparently, pitti was faster than me.
 * iulian is still trying to wake up.
<iulian> Morning by the way.
<ajmitch> iulian: more coffee helps :)
<iulian> :)
<hrw> helo
<bdrung> tumbleweed: please go ahead with bug #712721
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 712721 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[sponsor-patch] help doesn't make it obvious workdir or upload is required" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/712721
<tumbleweed> sure
<tumbleweed> are we waiting for it to be buildable in sid?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes
<bdrung> tumbleweed: will file a bug against python-launchpadlib
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I don't know if its really bug-worthy it's a transition
<bdrung> tumbleweed: but binNMU do not work on arch all package, do they?
<tumbleweed> no not yet, but POX has been NMUing lower level libraries
<tumbleweed> one of us could probably just nmu launchpadlib if DktrKranz doesn't do a new upload soon (prod)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: so we need this bug report anyway
<tumbleweed> POX was doing 0-day NMUs without reports, but yeah, politeness doesn't hurt :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what severity should i give the bug?
<tumbleweed> important? considering it'll get an NMU
<bdrung> i would go for serious (to make it a rc bug)
<tumbleweed> fine with me
<bdrung> tumbleweed: why do we suggest "qemu-user-static | qemu-kvm-extras-static"?
<tumbleweed> pbuilder-dist supports armel
<DktrKranz> tumbleweed, bdrung: no chance to do a launchpadlib upload until this evening, CEST time. If you can ping me again later, I won't forget
<DktrKranz> if needed now, feel freee to do a team upload
<bdrung> DktrKranz: today's evening is sufficient.
<bdrung> DktrKranz: ping. when is "later"?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I suppose I should have another look at those lp-project-upload merge requests
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes. we should process all merge requests before the upload.
<DktrKranz> bdrung: I noticed I have to upload all the stack (wadllib and lazr*)
<DktrKranz> I think I can do them around 21 CEST
<bdrung> k
<bdrung> DktrKranz: CEST = utc + 2?
<DktrKranz> yes
<tumbleweed> DktrKranz: aah I didn't look, I just test-built launchpadlib. Are there any dependancies below you that still need rebuilds?
<DktrKranz> oauth?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i filed i reminder for me: bug #764763
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 764763 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "Integrate ack-sync into sponsor-patch" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764763
<tumbleweed> DktrKranz: ouath looks looks liket it's python-support so it's ok
<dholbach> can somebody please review the lp:ubuntu-packaging-guide merge proposals?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what do you think about changing the versioning of u-d-t?
<bdrung> x.y.z where x is rarely changed, y introduces new features, z contains only bug fixes
<tumbleweed> fine with me, it's helpful to users too
<bdrung> going for 1.0 once all scripts that do not belong there are moved to their correct place
<tumbleweed> it does mean new features will take longer to get to users, though
<bdrung> tumbleweed: really? it's just the numbering
<tumbleweed> well assuming we aren't afraid to bump y whenever we want to.
<bdrung> i assume that
<tumbleweed> fine with me
<bdrung> having bug fix numbers prevent y to get over 100 quickly
<bdrung> tumbleweed: should we have a u-d-t session at uds?
<tumbleweed> I suppose we should push harder on devscripts (which means either preparing some perl scripts or a devscripts-python or a patch adding a python script to devscripts)
<tumbleweed> are we expecting any devscripts maintainers to be at UDS?
<bdrung> devscripts-python is a no go
<tumbleweed> going to debconf btw? I'll try to make it, but haven't booked anything yet (hoping for some sponsorship)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: dunno (re devscripts maintainers).
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i probably wont go to debconf
<bdrung> tumbleweed: will you go to UDS?
<tumbleweed> yes, I'll be at UDS, so let's talk about u-d-t there.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: let's try to get some devscripts maintainers there!
<tumbleweed> heh
<tumbleweed> I assume we can expect zack, he's the only devscripts uploader I can see registered for UDS.
<tumbleweed> err, I can't see any others, but I assume he'll be there
<bdrung> tumbleweed: IIRC zack has a schedule conflict and won't attend UDS
<tumbleweed> aah
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do you know where i find the mailman page for pkg-devscripts@teams.debian.net?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: should i setup a ppa for devscripts?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: seems there's an incorrect A record for teams.debian.net. Try http://aietes.turmzimmer.net/index.html
<bdrung> DktrKranz: here's the python-launchpadlib ping :)
<DktrKranz> here's python-launchpadlib pong :)
<onizuka> hello
<onizuka> somebody here ?
<onizuka> a question I have, a question can I ask ?
<cyphermox_> onizuka, just ask it :)
<onizuka> ok beginner question I think, when a new open source project starts how are you supposed to register the name
<onizuka> to avoid package name conflict for the first release ?
<maco> i'd just google it and see if its in use yet
<maco> you could do "apt-cache search <name>" to see if there are any packages in ubuntu as well
<onizuka> indeed I agree, you just hope nobody release a project with the same name until the end of your project
<maco> there's no foss-wide "registration" though...
<onizuka> what about commercial projects
<onizuka> imagine a company using ubuntu repository
<maco> in canonical's partner repo?
<onizuka> yes for example
<maco> commercial companies may wish to register a trademark in their country
<onizuka> imagine coca-coca has a library libcocacola
<onizuka> coca-cola sorry
<onizuka> want it in its own repository
<onizuka> and somebody release it as an open source project
<bdrung> tumbleweed: fyi: https://code.launchpad.net/~devscripts-dev/+recipe/daily
<maco> onizuka: there's nothing in foss to cover registration of names. that's trademark law. you do that at the country level
<maco> two bits of software can share a name if neither party trademarks it
<maco> its confusing for users, but there's no rule against it
<maco> if you're worried someone will steal your name, trademark it
<onizuka> maco > it's just for an open source project
<cyphermox_> or release before they do ;)
<onizuka> don't want to buy a domain name
<maco> cyphermox_: or stake out a spot on launchpad or sourceforge or github or whatever first :P
<onizuka> maco > i think it is more parano than concrete fears
<maco> i agree
<onizuka> maco > anyway thank's for your answers it is why I came here
<onizuka> maco > have a good day
<cyphermox_> onizuka, what maco said is true though -- if it's a foss project, register it in LP now, that way people have a chance to know you're working on something by that name
<onizuka> cyphermox_, LP ?
<cyphermox_> onizuka, I mean in Launchpad
<onizuka> ok !
<onizuka> cyphermox_, nice idea, sourceforge too ?
<onizuka> launchpad is enough ?
<cyphermox_> onizuka, depends what you want to do, do you need features in sourceforge or launchpad? use what is fit for the task, no need to register a project somewhere if you're not going to use the site
<onizuka> cyphermox_, ok !! this situation is annoying !! I'll make an official project for projects' name reservation !
<onizuka> cyphermox_, maco i'll keep you in touch if i hava the opportunity
<onizuka> cyphermox_, maco, have a nice day, many thanks for your help
<tumbleweed> bdrung: cool (although I see it already failed)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: some bzr issue
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> DktrKranz looks like he's almost done
<bdrung> tumbleweed: are you subscribed to pkg-devscripts?
<tumbleweed> no
 * tumbleweed supposes he should
<DktrKranz> bdrung, tumbleweed: upload in progress
<bdrung> thanks
<bdrung> tumbleweed: lp:devscripts is outdated!
<tumbleweed> aah
<tumbleweed> yeah it moved to git
<matttbe> Hello,
<matttbe> I'm looking for a sponsor to upload Cairo-Dock packages on Natty? Is someone can help us?
<matttbe> this is the bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo-dock/+bug/723994
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 723994 in cairo-dock (Ubuntu Natty) "FFe: Please update Cairo-Dock to 2.3.0~0rc1 version" [Wishlist,New]
<matttbe> I also have another question: if there is a newer version of these packages (2.3.0 stable) which fix a few bugs, should I have to open a new bug report or can I update bzr branches and join a new debdiff?
<bdrung> matttbe: if it only contains bug fixes and no new features, you don't need a ffe for it
<matttbe> bdrung: and should I have to wait for the upload of the 2.3.0~0rc1 version or not?
<bdrung> matttbe: dunno. if the old version is still available, i would say no.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: once this is done (https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/153360), the daily build should work
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i am going to bed now. feel free to do the u-d-t upload
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-19
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> tumbleweed, never let me have to reformat that license text again :-P
<tumbleweed> dholbach: aren't CC licences fun :)
<dholbach> I guess there's fates worse than that :)
<dholbach> as soon as the license is in I'll set up daily builds
<dholbach> and we can get it into oneiric
<dholbach> now that the wiki license is sorted out we should be ready to go and can reformat wiki content easily
<dholbach> tumbleweed, it's time the CC licenses get into base-files ;-)
<tumbleweed> I tend to crib from packages I've already used them in
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> I saw "License: CC BY SA 3.0" somewhere else :)
<dholbach> (without the verbatim license text)
<dholbach> tumbleweed, does it look OK to you now?
<tumbleweed> dholbach: Format-Specification -> Format, bump the revision
<dholbach> tumbleweed, done
<tumbleweed> dholbach: maybe add something about CC-BY-SA to epub_copyright in conf.py ?
<tumbleweed> oh, no that's for dublin core metadata
<tumbleweed> ah, "copyright"
<dholbach> there's nothing regarding licenses in there
<dholbach> just copyright
<tumbleweed> yeah :/ but IIRC the value of copyright is displayed in the footer
<dholbach> can we maybe make that a separate discussion?
<dholbach> :)
<tumbleweed> :)
<dholbach> gracias
 * dholbach hugs tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> np
<abhinav-> Hi, I have a debdiff patch for tomboy which I want to be included in debian/patches. Here is what I am trying to do: http://paste.ubuntu.com/595990/ . At the end of all steps the patch generated in debian/patches has code merged from all the patches present in there. What's going wrong ?
<m4n1sh> I am not a packaging geek, but please upload the debdiff patch too
<abhinav-> Here is the diff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/595995/
<paultag> abhinav-: attach it to the LP bug, and let ubuntu-bugs know (or tag it yourself)
<paultag> abhinav-: oh, I misread -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/BuildFromDebdiff?highlight=%28debdiff%29
<abhinav-> paultag: it is already attached to bug for last one week I guess, I also had a merge proposal but I was told that it should be included through debian/patches
<abhinav-> paultag: I followed this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<paultag> abhinav-: no, a debdiff is a delta on debian it's self, not a delta for debian/patch -- apply the debdiff to the vcs and checkin the changes, propose that for merge
<paultag> abhinav-: please note license etc very strictly
<gus> is this the channel to ask for packages updated in maverick ?
<gus> is there a problem with language-selector package ?
<ScottK> Yes.  There is and it's being worked on now.
<gus> oki thanks ScottK
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-20
<dholbach> good morning
<quaketo> hi
<quaketo> what?
<dholbach> can somebody have a look at http://pad.lv/mps/ubuntu-packaging-guide? if there's a more elegant/better way to do it, I'm all ears :)
<dholbach> can somebody please check out http://pad.lv/mps/ubuntu-packaging-guide?
<Laney> I don't like it
<Laney> can't the makefile do cleverness to find out what it can build given the current sphinx version?
<Laney> or can't sphinx 1.0 be backported to the ppa?
<dholbach> Laney, that could work, but it's not automatic, as something's wrong with the mercurial imports
<Laney> does the natty package not backport?
<dholbach> Laney, the makefile is generated by sphinx-project or whatever the command is called
<Laney> or you could generate that as part of the build instead?
<Laney> I don't know if that would need more BDs though
<dholbach> I guess we can just backport natty sphinx for now
<Laney> hardcoding 'natty' is definitely a bad idea anyway, as that would break for future releases
<dholbach> Laney, I'll backport then
<Laney> cool, hope it works
<dholbach> *cross fingers*
<dholbach> Laney, "python-jinja2 (>= 2.2)" for karmic - do you want to do that one? :)
<dholbach> nm, done
<dholbach> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/70016187/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.jinja2_2.3.1-1~karmic1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz - ok, let'S forget karmic for now - if anyone is passionate about it, file a bug :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-21
<achiang> how do i 'push' patches if the patch system is cdbs? i want to see what the source code looks like when all patches are applied
<broder> achiang: i'm pretty sure you can run debian/rules patch
<achiang> broder: hm. ok, i'll try that. (my workaround was to say cdbs-edit-patch <name of patch i want to go to>)
<achiang> and then issuing exit 1 after i was done looking at the source
<achiang> broder: yep, that worked, thanks
<broder> np
<AtomicSpark> So I have questions! What patches does MOTU apply to Netbeans. Why is the Launchpad project page for it seem to be dead/not touch since 5.x. How do I poke someone to get on the 7.x release which has been RC forever and just released into Ubuntu+2? Etc.
<lifeless> AtomicSpark: which launchpad page ? (there are upstream pages and ubuntu pages, the distinction does matter)
<AtomicSpark> The Ubuntu package page links to https://launchpad.net/netbeans
<AtomicSpark> Which adds packages but doesn't seem to be used for a project. Series and milestones, etc only lists version 5.
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> launchpad is many things
<lifeless> among them are:
<lifeless>  - a software forge where software development tools (bugtracker etc) can be used in developing software
<lifeless>  - a directory where software *developed elsewhere* can be listed and important metadata added
<lifeless> https://launchpad.net/netbeans has on its front a link to the real home page - 'Home page' -> http://www.netbeans.org/products/platform/
<lifeless> so its in the second category
<AtomicSpark> It looks like the ubuntu package just adds Software Center metadata to it.
<lifeless> and packaging rules I expect
<lifeless> the diff on the source package page is authoritative
<lifeless> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/netbeans_6.9-0ubuntu2.diff.gz
<lifeless> (from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netbeans/6.9-0ubuntu2)
<AtomicSpark> Netbeans is incredibly outdated in Debian. Even in sid. Looks like it needs maintainers.
<AtomicSpark> Sad, Eclipse doesn't handle J2EE stuff very well.
<micahg> AtomicSpark: in the past, someone from sun was updating it
<AtomicSpark> Well. Maybe now that 7.0 is relased, someone will magically package it for 11.10.
<micahg> AtomicSpark: feel free to give it a shot :)
<AtomicSpark> micahg: I just might do that. Hopefully the dependancies haven't changed/we get a build failure. Debian seems to be having issues with Netbeans. Was reading http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=543907
<ubottu> Debian bug 543907 in wnpp "ITA: netbeans-ide -- IDE for Java Development and More, version 6 (IDE)" [Normal,Open]
<micahg> AtomicSpark: you might want to join the Debian pkg-java team and ask what you can do to help
<dholbach> good morning
<laszlok> I am the upstream maintainer for glipper (a clipboard gnome applet). Who should I contact about getting the new version with app indicator support from my PPA into universe? (Otherwise the app is useless in Unity)
<dholbach> hey laszlok, try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<dholbach> laszlok, best to file a bug on the ubuntu package and link to the ppa package and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors (and ubuntu-release because we're after almost all freeze dates already)
<laszlok> dholbach: so I can just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors, and they will notice it, or should I follow up?
<dholbach> they will notice it
<dholbach> if they have questions/concerns they'll leave comments in the bug
<laszlok> ok thanks
 * laszlok hugs dholbach 
 * dholbach hugs laszlok back :)
<evaluate> Hello.
<evaluate> A package of mine seems to have problems with the application indicator fallback. That means if the program is compiled with application indicator support, but the user doesn't use the indicator, but the systray, the app crashes.
<evaluate> I'm not sure where exactly the problem is, but I'd guess it's with the application indicator fallback, since both the application indicator and the program compiled without the indicator support work perfectly fine.
<evaluate> I thought about having the normal package and then an additional package -indicator. The normal would be built without indicator support and the -indicator one with indicator support and they could 'Conflict' with each other, so that a user can't have them both installed. This would solve the problems, I'm not sure if this is acceptable though...
<evaluate> Also, I'd regard the bug report as RC (since the program isn't usable at all if the user doesn't use the indicator), I can't change it accordingly though. Is there any way to give a user access to manipulate bugs for a single package?
<sladen> hello evaluate, just reading your long post
<evaluate> Sure, take your time. :-)
<sladen> evaluate: okay, first dumb question.  Which package/program, and are there any bug numbers already filed in the bug tracker?
<sladen> evaluate: (my apologies if I missed it in the above)
<evaluate> sladen, no, it was my bad that I didn't mention it. The package I'm talking about is 'clipit' and the bug is #702316
<evaluate> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clipit/+bug/702316
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 702316 in clipit (Ubuntu) "complete freeze x" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<evaluate> sladen, so basically from what I can tell, there would be 3 solutions to this problem. Either the ayatana guys fix the fallback, which I find highly unlikely in the remaining time until the relaease, or clipit should drop indicator support for good or offer 2 packages to users, one with indicator support, the other one without.
<sladen> evaluate: I've updated the description for the bug to try and give a better high-level context.  Would you be able to read it over and confirm that it's accurate (I've had to guess/fill in the gaps)
<sladen> evaluate: all very good solutions; but before we can figure out /solutions/ we need to work out the problem, and how to reproduce it!
<evaluate> sladen, description looks good to me.
<evaluate> Thing is, I think fluxbox doesn't have indicator support, but the old systray, that is the reason for the crash and that is also the reason why under a default natty install it works fine.
<evaluate> I can easily reproduce the bug in maverick if I install clipit with indicator support and let it run in the systray.
<sladen> evaluate: I get a dropbox menu with "About" "Manage History" " Preferences" "Quit"  Is that the fallback
<sladen> evaluate: (this is on natty)
<sladen> evaluate: oh.  So this bug is *only* about fluxbox?
<sladen> evaluate: and nothing in the default configuration?
<evaluate> Not sure if that's the fallback or not, let me explain a little.
<evaluate> Not all desktop managers support the application indicator and thus, the ayatana guys have written a 'fallback' so that: if I write my program with indicator code (which is a bit different from the systray code) and then run it under a DE which doesn't support indicators, the application indicator automatically applies a fallback, so the program runs just like if it was written with systray code.
<evaluate> Hope that makes sense, English isn't my first language...
<evaluate> That means, clipit normally is built with indicator support under ubuntu. Under the normal DE, which supports applications indicators, it works perfectly fine, but if a user runs a DE which doesn't support application indicators, the fallback gets applied, which is buggy and makes the program crash X
<evaluate> I'm not sure where this fallback exactly lives, if I were to guess, I would say it's probably in the patched GTK code that the ayatan guys have done...
<evaluate> ayatana*
<evaluate> Also, the bug is not *only* about fluxbox, it's about all DEs that don't support application indicators.
<sladen> evaluate: could you pop into #ayatana
<sladen> evaluate: could you also click edit and expand the bit about "Parcellite" to give more context.  I don't know what that reference currently is (is it relevant?)
<sladen> evaluate: is it saying that Parcellite doesn't cause a crash?
<evaluate> Joined #ayatana.
<evaluate> Regarding Parcellite, thing is, clipit is forked from Parcellite, so it may be that installing both programs wouldn't work well, I didn't investigate that closely yet.
<evaluate> I also think this can be set to 'Confirmed', since there is an easy way to reproduce the bug (at least in maverick there is)
<evaluate> And I'm pretty sure that running it in a DE that doesn't support indicators under natty does the exact same thing...
<evaluate> I just installed Parcellite too and ran both clipit and Parcellite together and can't see anything misfunctioning. I think that part needs more expanding from the person that reported the bug...
<bdmurray> tumbleweed: I've fixed my ubuntu-dev-tools merge proposal based on your feedback
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-22
<micahg> for DEP-5, how does one get the partial license paragraph
<softcoder> hello?
<softcoder> anyone here able to discussion includion of something in natty?
<micahg> softcoder: just ask, if it's an update you have a chance, otherwise highly unlikely
<softcoder> ok.. for the longest time the RTS game Glest i think was in
<softcoder> we forked years ago and just released 3.5.0 of megaglest
<softcoder> its the continuation of glest
<softcoder> its developed in ubuntu
<softcoder> and we have tester on 11.x
<softcoder> thought i would try to get it in
<softcoder> the arch guys included in theirs recently
<micahg> softcoder: so, we still have glest from Debian
<softcoder> its too old and does have near what megaglest has
<softcoder> most distros are ptiching glest for mega
<softcoder> glest stopped being worked on in 2005
<softcoder> me and another dev picked up for the last 2 years and added tons of fun
<softcoder> multiplayer and lots of new data
<softcoder> and gpl3.. data is creative command 3 share alike
<softcoder> totally open source
<softcoder> see megaglest,org
<micahg> well, the upstream page seems to be megaglest now, it's a little late for such a change in natty, you can try asking for a freeze exception, then you need someone to package it.  I would suggest working with the Debian games team to get it updated in Debian, then we'll sync it to oneiric and you can request a backport to natty
<softcoder> ok so debian is the place to go right?
<micahg> softcoder: yeah, it's probably the least amount of work for everyone
<softcoder> whats their channel?
<micahg> and all of Debian's derivatives benefit as well
<micahg> softcoder: #debian-games on oftc
<softcoder> thx
<geekMePl1ase> Does 11.04 have ESS by default?
<geekMePl1ase> for Emacs.
<Quintasan> good morning
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Archive: Seeded packages : RC bugs only, other Universe/Multiverse: Open for bug fixes | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Congrats to new core-dev: SpamapS
<ScottK> SpamapS: I just saw the topic.  Congratulations.
<c_korn> apt-get install -s 0ad <-- this gives me "permission denied"
<paultag> c_korn: sudo !!
<c_korn> seems to be related to the name "0ad". works with other packages
<c_korn> paultag: notice the -s
<paultag> hum
<paultag> aye
<paultag> looks like 0ad's not in debian, so I can't really test, but good luck
<c_korn> hum
<c_korn> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Fd7fn6R8
<c_korn> seems that it tries to run apt-get upgrade
<paultag> c_korn: try apt-get -s install
<c_korn> ah :)
<c_korn> thanks paultag
<paultag> c_korn: np
<micahg> could I get a quick dep5 review: http://paste.ubuntu.com/597516/
<BlackZ> micahg: from my review: consider adding the "Upstream-Contact" tag (this isn't mandatory, though); the symbol "+" could be used instead of "or later" and the "Upstream-name" tag should contain the name of the package (e.g: foo-bar)
<micahg> BlackZ: what do you mean upstream-contact
<BlackZ> micahg: from http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/: "The preferred address(es) to reach the upstream project. [...]"
<micahg> BlackZ: from that page, it shows the project name, not package name for upstream name
<BlackZ> micahg: yeah sorry, I meant that
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-23
<ScottK> Ampelbein: I managed to squeeze your libquicktime upload in, but from here on out any seeded package uploads (libquicktime is on the mythbuntu and ubuntustudio images) should go to maverick-proposed unless it's truly an RC bug we should delay the release for.
<ScottK> Ampelbein: Please rather urgently look at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/70221224/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.libquicktime_2%3A1.1.5-1ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ScottK> Your libquicktime fix apparently has a problem.
<ScottK> Anyone else around that would like to take a crack at it, that'd be great too.
<virusuy> hi all
<virusuy> i'm working in a bug...the problem is a typo in english and also in other languages
<virusuy> should i change in all languages ?
<virusuy> do changes*
 * virusuy is away: AFK !!!
 * virusuy is back (gone 00:00:03)
<Ampelbein> ScottK: I saw the mail :-(. I uploaded a -3 now, fixing that amd64 failure.
<Ampelbein> ScottK: regarding "truly an RC bug" - aren't FTBFS bugs always considered RC?
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: around?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: yeah hi
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: should these proposals merged before upload: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/+activereviews ?
<tumbleweed> it would probably be nice to, yes. I am still waiting on tedg to fix bug closing for multi-task bugs
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: i would like to do the upload today
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: is there anything on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools that should/could be fixed?
 * tumbleweed has a quick re-review
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: nothing looks important, at all
<bdrung_> great
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: can i do the upload or should i wait?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: go for it, tedg doesn't look he's had much time recently
 * bdrung_ is doing the upload.
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: thanks
<ScottK> Ampelbein: In Debian yes, but in Ubuntu we don't delay the release because of a package failing to build.
<rgl> hi
<virusuy> morning all
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-24
 * virusuy is away: "partiendose la boca con un chivito, ya vuelvo"
<micahg> !away > virusuy
<ubottu> virusuy, please see my private message
 * virusuy is back (gone 00:12:12)
<AnAnt> ScottK: regarding LP #769101, do you know what in launchpad to file a bug against ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 769101 in lintian (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please merge lintian 2.5.0~rc3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769101
<AnAnt> bdrung_: ^
<bdrung_> AnAnt: i am not sure. you may ask in #launchpad
<AnAnt> bdrung_: ok, there is a bug filed already, thanks to micahg
<rgl> hi
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: what mapping do you need for mk-sbuild?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: both directions
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: and api for it?
<tumbleweed> --devel is useful for distro-info, but something that took "unstable" would be handy in debian
 * tumbleweed thinks about an API
<tumbleweed> is there agood name for debian's release synonyms?
<bdrung_> i don't know any
<bdrung_> "symlink" isn't a good name
<tumbleweed> "distribution" seems common, but that's confusing in this scenario
<tumbleweed> alias is about the best I can do
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: how about --codename-for=alias, --alias-for=codename, and --aliases ?
<tumbleweed> that would still exclude experimental, I think, but that's ok. experimental is weird
<tumbleweed> err maybe s/alias/dist/ ?
<tumbleweed> or even suite
<tumbleweed> that might be the most accurate (it matches Rleease files, for a start)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: so we have alias, dist, codename, and suite. which of them should we use?
<tumbleweed> I think suite is the correct term, although we don't use it in many places, I use it in ubuntutools.archive
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: is suite used in Debian?
<tumbleweed> in Release files
<tumbleweed> also in dak
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: ok. then let's use codename and suite
<bdrung_> --codename-for=suite and --suite-for=codename sounds ok for me
<tumbleweed> DktrKranz: ^ is that correct usage of the term suite?
<DktrKranz> tumbleweed: it is, if you refer to 'sid', 'wheezy', 'experimental'
<tumbleweed> DktrKranz: thanks
<DktrKranz> tumbleweed: 'unstable', 'testing' are now mappings to those
<tumbleweed> DktrKranz: so you'd call unstable, testing, etc. "mappings" ?
<DktrKranz> you can refer to suites, mappings are dak internals
<tumbleweed> I want to know what to call "unstable" and "testing", as opposed to their code names "sid" and "wheezy"
<bdrung_> suite = sid, wheezy, experimental, natty, lucid?
<DktrKranz> http://paste.debian.net/plain/114988
<tumbleweed> DktrKranz: fantastic, looks like suite is appropriate then
<DktrKranz> we still use 'unstable' as suite, while 'sid' is codename
<DktrKranz> not sure if that will change soon (plans for that)
<tumbleweed> does that mean this will change?
<tumbleweed> right
<DktrKranz> but for now, you can use that scheme
<tumbleweed> well someone will have to come up for a name for those aliases if it does change :)
<DktrKranz> $whytheheckwedecidedtochangethem
<Kano> hi, did anybody use bootchart with natty?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-16
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hi geser
<bobweaver> Hello there again. I have a question about debhelper mostly about dh_installdirs   I have been reading the man pages for all the deb helper commands. My question has to do with the -A or --all options will this look at the source directory and recursively take all them and put under the package dir ? if not is there a tool that does that ? sorry if I missed it in the guide. Thanks for your time
<tumbleweed> bobweaver: I don't quite follow your question
<tumbleweed> dh_installdirs -A /foo would create /foo in all the binary packages being built
<bobweaver> It is ok I just schooled on debian-mentors  arghh so hard to learn when every one is like this is not for debian and you are like I am on debian and making this for a debian system and I just want to learn and pop gopes bobweavers head
<bobweaver> I guess that I am getting upstream and packaging confused. what ever that means just wanted to know if I could take the source folder look into and copy all the files and dirs into the correct place where they are going to need to be put for end user kinda like this http://paste.debian.net/163394/    but if I have to do that with a large project then I am going to get these vars mixed up there has to be a better way.
<tumbleweed> bobweaver: Still having a hard time understanding you, but it sounds like you want to use DESTDIR http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/DESTDIR.html
<bobweaver> I have a project that I am working on here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/zpanelcp/zpanelcp/files    see how I have all the dirs ? they need to me mirrored on to the end users system. Now I spent 2 days working on a great installer script but is is not for apt uses dialog and wget and is a mess so I thought that I would try a go at packaging. As the owner of the software is going to give up on making *nix versions because th
<bobweaver> ey have no .debs or ppa or .rpm's and are all php and net guys. so I took on the load.
<bobweaver> but do I have to call each varible file but a varible that is going to be over 6000 varibles so if I could say recursivly some how do that in the rules file then that would be great because I would not need 6000 variables
<bobweaver> I will amke video of my question
<tumbleweed> I suggest looking at other packages so you can see how things are usually done
<Daviey> Laney / ScottK: I know of a couple, yes.. wassup?
<ScottK> Daviey: There's some unfixed CVEs in our package and if you look at about the time we pinged you there's a proposed branch that needs review/testing.
<Daviey> ScottK: I don't think i have cap city to tst it before release TBH.  I think it would be better targeted as a -security upload.. Sound fair?
<Daviey> capacity*
<ScottK> I see. Unfortunately the patches weren't security only.
<Laney> jtaylor had a branch, but I'm not sure what it was for
<ScottK> That's the one.
<Laney> OK, it's to merge 1.8.10.1 from testing
<bobweaver> My question  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZYgwJVmn2Y
<Daviey> Laney / ScottK: Okay.. i can try and take it.. but i can't guarantee..   Currently travelling
<Laney> Daviey: Our version is pretty old, but I don't know anything about asterisk to know if the new one is any better. The fact that it contains those security fixes makes me keen though.
<Laney> I'd probably be inclined to sneak it in if someone that knows asterisk gives the nod
<Daviey> Laney: Yeah.. generally, we don't tend to regress in merges.. So it feels reasonably safe.. but i'd like to sniff it first.
<Laney> righto
<bregma> bobweaver, like they said on debian-mentors, you want to be able to take you "upstream source", which is what you have in bzr, and be able to install that on an end-user's system in a configurable manner regardles of packaging
<bregma> bobweaver, then the packaging uses that to install the software from a package
<Daviey> upstream also has their own LTS versions aswell.. so i'd like to dig through versoning to make sure we aren't going from upstream LTS to interim releae.
<bregma> bobweaver, the autotools may be overkill, read up on how to use a makefile
<bobweaver> Thanks bregma  I will do that.thansk again for your time.
<bregma> bobweaver, your goal will be to be able to type 'make install' from a copy of your bzr repo and have the files end up on your system in the right places -- then your debian/rules file will consist of two lines (%:\n\tdh $@) because dh knows how to run 'make install' with the right settings
<bregma> plus, debian/rules is normally actually a makefile, so you learn two things at once
<bobweaver> I guess I have to learn how to make a makefile.
<spartan-11510> Hello. I need some help to package an application using gtkmm, i don't know how write my makefile (how rules) and my config.sh
<pabelanger> Asked this in ubuntu server but no answer, anybody know which package creates the mini.iso for netboots?
<ogra_> debian-installer together with debian-cd
<ogra_> (teh first creates the kernel and initrd.img files, the latter merges them into the iso)
<pabelanger> ogra_: great, thanks
<Streamstormer> Hello, I want to build mysql-workbench 5.2.38+dfsg-3 from Debian with pbuilder
<Streamstormer> but pbuilder fails horrible with unmet dependencies: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/932988/
<Streamstormer> can somebody give me a hint what package the problem is?
<tumbleweed> pbuilder has particularly unhelpful dependancy errors
<Streamstormer> and what programm can i use t make the errors better? ;)
<tumbleweed> sbuild :)
<tumbleweed> tried logging into the pbuilder and installing them by hand?
<Streamstormer> no
<tumbleweed> I seem to remember someone (jtaylor?) saying pbuilder's alternative dependancy installer gave better errors
<Streamstormer> I will first try sbuild
<micahg> mr_pouit: gilir: I'm thinking to skip the blueman merge for the RC bug, as it just adds a dependency for gnome-icon-theme, WDYT?
<micahg> mr_pouit: gilir: forgot to mention, that package is already seeded for both lubuntu and xubuntu
<bobweaver> hello there how does one put a picture to there .deb fo like ubuntu software center. I am guessing that it is somewhere under the control file but I have googled it for the last 2 hr and gotten no-where thanks for your time
<Zhenech> it uses screenshot.debian.net
<JanC> which is somewhat unintuitive...   :P
<Zhenech> send a patch?
<bobweaver> Thanks Zhenech
<bobweaver> why this stuff is not in the packaging guide is past me. also spent 5 hr last night trying to figure out why I could not use apt in my .deb. The 1st line of the documention might be good too say "if you do not have a reposotry then you can not use apt in your .deb because dpkg will get stuck in a loop. N00b mistake but 3 lines of documentation about common sence would be real nice
<bobweaver> Instead of 5 hrs of reasearch and getting ridaculed byt debian-mentors *I guess they and every one else knew that sence birth *
<bobweaver> I feel like forest gump when he gets on the bus and evryone is like cant sit here. more like on debian-mentors (which I thought was a good idea at 1st) Can LEARN here . Where is my jenny lol :>)
<bobweaver> how do I get pass the difference between a makefile under rules and a make file that is called from rules? and how to get the upsource into the make file when end usr dont have upsource ? wget ?
<Laney> bobweaver: I just read the interaction you're referring to from #debian-mentors and I don't see why you're so upset I'm afraid. It looks like you got appropriate and polite help ...
<Laney> also:
<Laney> 16/04 13:09:41 -!- bobweaver [~joseph@173-86-139-34.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<Laney> 16/04 13:10:18 <pabs> don't be frustrated, just keep reading documentation and stick around :)
<bobweaver> Laney,  thanks maybe I am over sensitive
<bobweaver> frustrated is a under statement. It was when guy/gir/whatever was like this has nothign to do with debian
<Laney> He was telling you that there is a separation between the upstream build system and the Debian build system.
<bobweaver> Oh anit I blue in the face.
<Laney> and that you should get the upstream build system working properly first, because that will make your Debian packaging easier.
<bobweaver> Oh I have that in a bassh file
<bobweaver> like 3 of them
<bobweaver> I do not know how to implant
<Laney> "this is not directly related to Debian" means that you need an upstream build system anyway, even in the absence of any packaging :-)
 * Laney is going to bed, goodnight
<bobweaver> how to implant http://paste.ubuntu.com/933270/
<bobweaver> into makefile ?
<bobweaver> Like I  try to make that as postinst and works but not the way I want it to. I can install no troubles here is the thing lets zpanel works on over 8 OS bsd *nix windows and mac I have made instalation but we have no repo so If I make deb then I can put up and we can update are code. like take centos when made zpanel 6 it was 5.4 centos or something like that. 4 weeks later install script not working because it is now 6.0 time frame is wron
<bobweaver> g up. So there is a debate is we are even going to keep it around for *nix as the head dev went public saying that we will no longer offer installerscript and that the community has to provide. So I thought that I was on the right path I just do not know how to implat my bash files into the debian package
<jtaylor> anyone working on getting the gajim fixes?those look quite severe
<jtaylor> dsa 2453-1
<cjwatson> pabelanger: for the record the mini.iso (as opposed to full ISO images, which I think is what ogra_ was thinking of) is created exclusively by debian-installer; debian-cd isn't involved there
<cjwatson> bobweaver: I doubt that you can transplant your bash script directly into a Makefile.  You need to trim it down massively, and consider which parts of it need to be run to build the tree of files that go into a package and which parts (if any; many packages have no parts like this) need to be run on the user's system when they install your package
<cjwatson> Once you've firmly separated those two concepts, it will probably be easier
<cjwatson> I expect much of your script can be replaced by simple dependencie
<cjwatson> *dependencies
<bobweaver> Thnks cjwatson get rid of the dialog boxs and all the functions and bashrc ect then make sure that the control file has all depends and put timed bash into posstinst ??
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-17
<cjwatson> Your Makefile should only deal with installing the files that need to be in *your* package.
<cjwatson> (And compiling them if necessary.)
<cjwatson> Erk, I just spotted the 'chmod 777' calls in there.  Kill those.
<bobweaver> how does enduser get upsource from apt ?
<cjwatson> It's almost never appropriate for a package to ship world-writable directories.
<bobweaver> will do that is not the actual script
<cjwatson> "get upsource"?
<bobweaver> that is inthe make file ? get upsource ?
<cjwatson> Sorry, I still don't understand what "upsource" is.
<bobweaver> I mean how does the make file know that the package /upsource is there like how to mv files that are not there ?
<cjwatson> Well, you can't move files that aren't there.  Can you give me a specific example?
<bobweaver> I made a video of the question here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZYgwJVmn2Y
<cjwatson> I'm not going to watch a video, sorry.
<bobweaver> ok so here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/zpanelcp/zpanelcp/files see there is my upstart
<cjwatson> My kids are asleep (so trying to avoid sound) and I have limited bandwidth at this time of night anyway.
<bobweaver> Its cool
<bobweaver> I can make example
<cjwatson> The Makefile runs at build time.  It operates on your source code.
<cjwatson> It's not generally allowed to operate on anything else.
<cjwatson> 'make install' should have the effect of installing files into their destination locations, prefixed by $DESTDIR.  So for example, to install a binary to /usr/bin/foo:
<cjwatson> install:
<cjwatson>         install -d $DESTDIR/usr/bin
<cjwatson>         install -m755 bin/foo $DESTDIR/usr/bin/foo
<cjwatson> where the eight spaces at the start of those lines must actually be a hard tab (make syntax)
<cjwatson> It's just about building and installing your own files, nothing more
<bobweaver> so I have other programs that I have packed here is one of the rules file for one http://paste.ubuntu.com/933314/   but Zpanel (what I am workinng on ) hass over 6000 files and if I have to call a var for each one two times that that is 12,000 lines of code + the DEST
<cjwatson> You can always use cp -a and the like
<cjwatson> Or wildcards
<bobweaver> that is the anwser I WANTED \0/
<cjwatson> Nobody expects a single line of code per file
<bobweaver> that is what I thought but could not figure out workaround because I am new
<cjwatson> Bit of advice from when I was new: don't admit it, just try to make the best imitation of not being new that you can. :-)
<bobweaver> Thanks !
 * bregma can not believe that cjwatson was _ever_ new
<bobweaver> OMG it is so simple I was overthinging this way to much
<cjwatson> In the case of that rules file you pasted, the way I'd do it would be to create a file debian/install that contains:
<cjwatson> ripper64.png usr/share/icons/hicolor/64x64/app
<cjwatson> ripper.desktop usr/share/applications
<cjwatson> ripper rippergui usr/bin
<bobweaver> wait I can just drop folders?
<cjwatson> and then delete the rest of the rules file and replace it with a copy of /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny
<cjwatson> dh_install has special syntax intended to make life easier
<cjwatson> (dh_install is what parses debian/install or debian/*.install)
<cjwatson> It's documented in its man page
<cjwatson> Anyhow, must try to sleep again, night
<bobweaver> now that I know that I can make wild cards \0/    thanks cjwatson  get some good sleep tonight you should you really helped me out Thanks again !
<bregma> bobweaver, do you remember the two-line debian/rules file I posted oh, 12 hours ago or so?
<bregma> that's what you'll find in /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny
<bobweaver> bregma,  yea I kinda rember that bregma
<bobweaver> before I go any further does this look correct ?  	install $(CURDIR)/debian/source/etc/build/config_packs/ubuntu_11_10/* /etc/zpanel/configs/
<bobweaver> will that cp everything under install $(CURDIR)/debian/source/etc/build/config_packs/ubuntu_11_10   and put it in /etc/zpanel/configs/
<bobweaver> or can I do
<bobweaver> install cp /debian/source/etc/build/config_packs/ubuntu_11_10/*  /etc/zpanel/configs/
<bobweaver> or does it have to be like this
<bobweaver> install cp /debian/source/etc/build/config_packs/ubuntu_11_10/*  $DESTDIR/etc/zpanel/configs/
<bobweaver> or do I just call the cp /name/of/dir/* /some/dir        Under dh_installdirs ?
<RAOF> bobweaver: I'm missing context, but that looks incorrect; it looks like you're trying to install files into /etc/zpanel/config during the process of *building* the package, rather than installing the package.
<bobweaver> RAOF,  so I have to use different tags then at a different point in the make file
<RAOF> bobweaver: As I said, I'm missing context.  What, exactly, are you trying to do?
<bobweaver> you are right thou I am trying to make it so the enduser has them files also on there computers
<bobweaver> using the wild card as there is alot stuff under /etc/zpanel/
<bregma> bobweaver, what happens during packaging is your install command is run to copy the files from a local copy of your source (for example, a bzr checkout) into a temporary staging area under debian/ that mimics the final destination of the installed system
<bobweaver> RAOF,  My question it has been kinda anwsered but I am trying to get syntax right :)   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZYgwJVmn2Y
<bregma> that's why the 'make install' target (or equivalent) needs to work without the packaging system
<bregma> and your install script needs to honour the DESTDIR variable
<bregma> so your 'install cp /debian/source/etc/build/config_packs/ubuntu_11_10/*  $DESTDIR/etc/zpanel/configs/' comes closest
<bregma> you can test it yourself by runing your install script and setting DESTDIR to, say, /tmp/shoebox and seeingwhat gets installed into /tmp/shoebox
<bregma> if your install script installs everything in the right place and honours $DESTDIR, then you do not need to do anything special in debian/rules, the tiny example knows how to take the files from there and bundle them up into a .deb
<bobweaver> bregma,  let me see if I got this right in normal deb packaging for me I alter rule I do not want to do this keep it as is after dh_make but before dh_make I have to make a Makefile called well make file. Do I also have to make a configuration file. ||| Or can I just make a #!/usr/bin/make -f  file call it what foo    then call foo somehow before the build prosses ? ||| now reading above again thanks
<bobweaver> That is cool about the tiny I was reading about that earlier
<bobweaver> 1) makefile 2) dh_make 3) alter /debian/ 4) fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -F 5) hope it builds ??
<bobweaver> makefile = script
<RAOF> What software are you trying to package?  How would you normally install it?
<bregma> bobweaver, you probably do not need a configuration script, and using a makefile (called 'Makefile' by convention) will make your debian/rules simpler
<bregma> you can use wildcards in your makefile and use the 'cp -r' command for recursive copies of entire directories
<bregma> and test it and make sure it does what you expect
<bobweaver> the softeare is a http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/zpanelcp/zpanelcp/files     it is a control panel   I learned how to package on youtube  by making script making icons and making callto points (depends scripts) tar all that up run dh_make -e <email> -c gpl3 -f the_tar_i_just_made.tar.gz   Now  go into the new debian folder and change the depends and wht not in the control file then copyright then massivly alter rule file to
<bobweaver> make the build happen then earse all non using .ex files and make unes that I am using as chmod +x then build with fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -F
<bobweaver> RAOF,  ^^
<bobweaver> Thanks it is becoming clear bregma
<bobweaver> I am mixing up Makefile ike  gcc makefiles with #!/usr/bin/make -f      or are they the same and that is just the shebang or are they different types all togeather ?
<bregma> once your makefile works, then yes, use dh_make -- I would suggest using a separate tree for packaging from your upstream source tree, but that may be more advanced than you need at this point
<bregma> makefiles can be used to build C programs, too
<bobweaver> cool !
<bregma> they're just a collection of rules on how to build files from other files, effectively
 * bobweaver takes a 90lbs weight of shoulders 
<bobweaver> I get it
<bobweaver> but
<bobweaver> how does the upsource get there (enduser) ?
<RAOF> I'm not sure what you mean?
<bobweaver> in the build of dpkg-buildpackage in the source one ?
<bobweaver> like how can a end user cp a file that is not on there computer
<RAOF> The end user doesn't install a file that's not on their computer.
<RAOF> There's two cases here: (1) the end user is installing from your source, (2) the end user is installing a .deb
<RAOF> In the first case, the end user has the file, because they've got your source.
<RAOF> In the second case, the .deb contains that file and unpacks it into the directory that you copied it to in the build process.
<bobweaver>  \o/
<bobweaver> thatis what I needed to hear
<RAOF> You can see the files in the deb, and where they'll be unpacked to, by running âdpkg --contents $PACKAGE.debâ
<bobweaver> Oh my I feel like a million bucks thanks RAOF  and bregma
<bobweaver> that is where I was confused I could not see that inside the deb contains also the source packages or do I have to call for repo for that ?
<bregma> no, the deb is a binary package (although in your case, it's all scripts and stuff)
<bobweaver> I think I get it and see why I was getting errors last night because I had no makefile I get it I think
<bobweaver> off to test brb
<bregma> the source package is usually a 'tarball' of the upstream source plus another archive of packaging information, plus a .dsc file describing the other files
<bobweaver> I see  Thanks !
<bobweaver> It is Working !!!! \o/ \o/
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> oh
<Rhonda> ah, micahg responded on the wesnoth bugreport. :)
<Rhonda> micahg: Also, upstream does usually help me backport fixes if needed even though it wouldn't be a supported release anymore. ;)
<pabelanger> cjwatson: okay, thanks for the info
<Laney> tumbleweed: ScottK: I noticed git-annex FTBFS. I can fix it by syncing haskell-bloomfilter (NEW) and then syncing git-annex itself. It's pretty featureful, though â http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/git-annex/current/changelog â but some of the changes (7.4 compat and the FTBFS fix / library updates) we definitely want. I think it's easiest/best to go for the syncs.
<Laney> Yay or nay?
<ScottK> Yay if you think it best.  As long as it's a sync, I don't mind the new.
<Laney> ok. want ffe?
<micahg> laney: I had an FTBFS on that package in a local chroot
<micahg> does it work in LP?
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> 1 N + Apr 17 Source Builder  ( 53K) Log for successful build of git-annex_3.20120406 on amd64 (dist=precise)
<micahg> it was a hardlink test failure
<Laney> Cases: 54  Tried: 54  Errors: 0  Failures: 0
<ScottK> Laney: Yes (re FFe) although you can mostly copy/paste this discussion (assuming you solve micahg's issue)
<Laney> I don't believe they are real, but I'll upload to a PPA.
 * micahg has had various hardlink issues in teh past that no one else seems to have, so wouldn't be surprise if this worked on LP
<micahg> and it's LP that counts in any event
<Laney> I enjoyed writing that FFe for some reason. Something is wrong wih me.
<Laney> probably because I got distracted reading about bloom filters
<ajmitch> Laney: you like all sorts of weird things though
<Laney> you should see my dungeon
<ajmitch> I don't think my innocent eyes could handle it
<matttbe> Hello,
<matttbe> I'm looking for someone to quickly fix the bug #984054 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984054 in cairo-dock-plug-ins (Ubuntu) "package cairo-dock-plug-ins-data 3.0.0.0rc1 failed to upgrade to 3.0.0.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984054
<matttbe> I propose a bzr branch for merging into lp:ubuntu/cairo-dock-plug-ins => https://code.launchpad.net/~cairo-dock-team/ubuntu/precise/cairo-dock-plug-ins/984054
<matttbe> Someone can help me to upload this new version? :)
<micahg> matttbe: yeah, I canin a bit take a look at that
<micahg> wow, sily IRC client
<micahg> I can take a look at that in a bit
<matttbe> micahg: thank you :)
<micahg> matttbe: FYI, whenever files move between packages, you need to add breaks/replaces for them
<matttbe> micahg: yeah, I know... I just forgot... I should sleep more :)
<micahg> matttbe: I'm not sure that will fix it, which package is that file in now?
<matttbe> micahg: This file was available in cairo-dock-data /usr/share/cairo-dock/gauges/Battery/background.svg
<matttbe> and now it's in cairo-dock-plug-ins-data
<micahg> matttbe: ok, so you want to break on the version where it moved, not the version in the bug
<micahg> otherwise you need to specify the whole 3.0.0.0rc1-0ubuntu1 version for <=
<matttbe> not only 3.0.0.0rc1 ?
<micahg> right, that won't pick up 3.0.0.0rc1-0ubuntu1
<matttbe> oh ok, I didn't know, sorry
<micahg> matttbe: that's why we have sponsors ;)
<matttbe> :)
<micahg> or rather why the sponsors are supposed to review changes :)
<Laney> let this be a lesson to all involved: test package upgrades :P
<micahg> indeed :)
 * micahg still needs to add hooks for that to sbuild
<matttbe> yes, I should have done that... sorry
<matttbe> but it's strange. A friend has tested this new version and he didn't have this problem. Maybe because cairo-dock-data has been updated before cairo-dock-plug-ins-data
<micahg> right
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-18
<matttbe> micahg: I'm sorry, I forgot to commit the modification!
<matttbe> I really have to go to sleep :)
<micahg> matttbe: I'll fix it then a bit later
<matttbe> micahg:  thank you :)
<bobweaver> Hello every one
<bobweaver> here comes my questions
<bobweaver> Why are all freaking examples of gnu make in c or c++ I just what to learn the dang syntax not c or c++ I thought that it was used for way more then just c and c++ . If anyone knows of links that I can read that Dont use c or c++ that would be super duper cool. Here is what I am doing http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1960641
<bobweaver> like
<bobweaver> install:
<bobweaver> cp /some/dir/* /someother/dir/
<bobweaver> also how to make permissions correct to write to things or mkdir example \
<bobweaver> install:
<bobweaver> mkdir -p /etc/sandbox
<bobweaver> with out having to run as root or sudo user ?
<bobweaver> do I have toi change the permissions of etc then make the whole thing (package that is ) then change permissions again ?
<RAOF> bobweaver: You see C/C++ in make examples because it's what it was mostly used for at the time of writing.
<bobweaver> Cool I can understand that.
<RAOF> bobweaver: But your makefile looks basically okay - however, you can't write to system-wide directories without having the appropriate permissions (ie: being root, or root-equivalent)
<bregma> bobweaver, 'make' was invented in the early 1970s to make compiling projects written in C and nroff easier
<bobweaver> IS there any way that I could talk one of you all into making a video on Makefiles
<bobweaver> the one on youtube only touchs on t
<bobweaver> it
<bobweaver> he says you have to know how a make file works
<bobweaver> what if you do not ?
<bregma> you could try reading http://oreilly.com/catalog/make3/book/ch11.pdf, which is an example of non-C projects
<bobweaver> RAOF but I thought that I can not be root or it messes up build later with dh_make
<bobweaver> thanks a million bregma
<RAOF> bobweaver: You basically already know how a make file works; it runs the commands in the target, one after another.  There's absolutely no special features to do what you want.
<bregma> if you install into the system directories you _must_ have appropriate permission
<RAOF> ie: there's no makefile syntax to do what you're after.
<RAOF> bobweaver: You *might* want to look into autotools, which is the buildsystem generator that most things use; that has a bunch of features to make what you're trying to do easier.  At the cost of being entirely opaque.
<bregma> you would normally run 'sudo make install' to install into real system directories but dpkg-buildpackage and friends know how to do the right thing at the right time
<bobweaver> bregma, and RAOF  male of female   dont want to say thanks guys if one is a girl but thanks :)
<bobweaver> RAOF, funny I won a book at my last linux users group meeting called autotools by john calcote. say fate ?  thanks again. back to the hacking block. I am learning a ton :)
<ScottK> Someone should do a quick merge of gajim.
<ScottK> micahg: ^^^ is for a couple of security fixes including remote sql injection.
<micahg> ScottK: meh, I saw that, but I can't get to it until later in the week
<ScottK> OK
<jdstrand> I'm pretty sure there are regressions in it btw
<jdstrand> micahg: ^
<jdstrand> (#debian-security iirc)
<ScottK> I'd probably pick security fixed over regression free for release.
<ScottK> But I don't use the package myself, so I may be biased.
<jdstrand> well, iirc, the regression was it didn't start
<jdstrand> pretty secure :)
<jdstrand> (which was the joke in #debian-security ;)
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> I still think that's probably better.
<ScottK> I'd rather a user get frustrated than owned.
<micahg> regression was in the stable version, not the unstable/testing one at least as far as the bug report goes
<ScottK> Even better.
<jdstrand> fair enough-- just thought I'd mention it
<sbeattie> micahg: gajim regression: I don't think the tmp fix made it into the unstable version yet, so just a straight merge of 0.15-1 should be fine.
<micahg> sbeattie: I"d be happy to sponsor for you if you want to do it :)
<bobweaver>  \o/  YES !!! I now have a apt-get install zpanelx   \o/
<_ruben> aww .. shame .. vmfs-tools is still at 0.2.1 in p, yet 0.2.5 is in debian testing and unstable
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> Guten Morgen dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<bobweaver> Hello and good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey bobweaver
 * micahg is baffled why blueman isn't accepting the --enable-sendto flag even from the cli
<bregma> bobweaver, I'm glad you finally got your problems sorted -- it all makes sense in the end, doesn't it?
<bobweaver> Yup and could not do it with out you
<bobweaver> still having some permission troubles but will figure out
<bobweaver> is there a way to update wuth dpkg ? like in my /debian/postinst I made a boo boo do I have to start over again I called apt-get upgrade
<tumbleweed> dpkg -i $fixed.deb
<bobweaver> in postinst I called and forgot about it now gives mee error that it can not unlock /var/something/dpkg because apt is all ready using it
<bobweaver> thanks !
<bobweaver> I made repo on my virtual machine so I can install with apt
<tumbleweed> you can't call apt or dpkg from maintainer scripts, that isn't going to work :P
<bobweaver> thanks tumbleweed  !
<bobweaver> so I will start over again but I have real clear direction this time
<bobweaver> I am going to prove to myself that I can do this :)
<tumbleweed> if you want something to be installed, you Depend on it, that's what Depends are for
<bobweaver> yeah I just forgot that I had a apt-get -y upgrade in there
<bobweaver> I will post  postinst
<bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/935250/
<bobweaver> dialod is wrong there and need to change to $HOME/.dialog for all
<bobweaver> because of fakeroot
<tumbleweed> eeek
<tumbleweed> you should use debconf for prompts
<bobweaver> so is there a way to update postinst then make new .deb
<bobweaver> tumbleweed,  I hear that I am going to learn that in the next day or 2 that is what I had laying around as I am in early stage of alpha
<tumbleweed> maintainer scripts taket arguments, you need to be aware of that: http://wiki.debian.org/MaintainerScripts
<tumbleweed> you can't touch anything in user's home directories from the maintainer script
<bobweaver> Thanks for the link !
<bobweaver> yeah because I am using fakeroot ?
<tumbleweed> no, because systems can have more than one user
<bobweaver> dang xchat
<bobweaver> brb
<bobweaver> sorry about that froze up on me
<bobweaver> could not see if you where saying anything :)
<tumbleweed> don't touch home directories
<tumbleweed> also, don't configure other packages, if anything you can drop files in their .d directories, if they have them
<bobweaver> .d ?
<tumbleweed> things like /etc/cron.d and /etc/apache2/conf.d
<bobweaver> ahh I see thanks
<tumbleweed> and you definitly don't reboot at the end :P
<bobweaver> will take out
<bobweaver> like I said the whole thing is going to change but I am loving the imput it helps me big big big time Thanks !
<bobweaver> this is my first package that is big and I am loving this. learning so much. I figure after I learn learn and learn some more I will try to see what I can do to help you all out.
<bobweaver> but that is a long way away
<tumbleweed> good to hear, enjoy :)
<bobweaver> for now I am going to put the  rocky song back on and get back to work :) thanks again for all of your imput esp the post that you posted for me bregma
<bobweaver> that was the breaking point for the make file
<bobweaver> also bregma  if you want developer stats on the forum I can talk to others. just a suggestion
<bobweaver> as you are one correct ?
<bobweaver> But on a super real note I can not thank you all enough for taking me under your wing I have no clue where I would be at this point if it was not for your videos and wiki page and what not. So truly form the bottom of my heart THANK YOU all. I look forward to learning more and building a relationship with the Mothers of the Universe.
<bobweaver> And am right here if you all EVER need anything. thanks again And talk to you all soon :)
<bregma> "mothers of the universe" ... I like that ... less patriarchal, more nurturing than "masters of the universe"
<bregma> not at all like "dominatrix of the universe"
<bregma> ... help whip your packages into shape
<ricotz> mdeslaur_, hi :), maybe you like to upload packages like seahorse-plugins/-nautilus to gnome3-ppa?
<bobweaver> wow debconf looks and feels alot like the control file from the man pages
<wookey> consolekit in ubuntu has a 'unstable' in it's changelog entries. Is that right?
<cjwatson> That's fine - it was just synced from Debian
<wookey> Do we do that where packages are identical to Debian upstream ? I wouldn't expect it to work...
<cjwatson> Works fine
<wookey> OK
<cjwatson> If you upload it by hand then you need to mangle Distribution: in .changes
<cjwatson> But usually such things aren't uploaded by hand
<directhex> wookey, packages are uploaded to debian unstable, unless something odd is going on. so that's the release in changelog for syncs
<cjwatson> Nowadays the publication record just gets copied around in LP
<cjwatson> It used to get done by a script that mangled .changes
<cjwatson> The other way to look at it is that if this didn't work we'd have to change a vast number of packages unnecessarily just to tweak the distribution in their changelog ...
<wookey> right - that's exactly what I thought did get done :-)
<wookey> but thinking about it it's only for things with an 'ubuntuN' suffix.
<cjwatson> indeed
<ScottK> Only two grave bugs fixed in Debian, but not precise now (or otherwise not relevant) http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/bugs/rcbugs/
<ScottK> Still plenty of severe bugs.
<ScottK> ajmitch: rcbug list has been hugely helpful for me once again this cycle.
<jtaylor> can one adapt it to also show the bug title? and possibly also important bugs
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<SpamapS> Hi motu's and release peeps. I need to do one more Juju upload.. which includes a new version of txzookeeper. Can I get an FFE ack on bug #985249 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 985249 in txzookeeper (Ubuntu Precise) "[FFE] Latest juju version includes critical features" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985249
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-19
<sticky_fingers> can anybody tell me where I can get some examples of debconf config files and also templeate files. I am a little confued about the frontend part and how it i called. Also where it stires its info and how to rm all of it in postrm. Thanks
<sticky_fingers> I have read all joey hess stuff
<cjwatson> 'man debconf-devel'
<cjwatson> frontend part: packages do not need to know
<cjwatson> where it stores its info: in the debconf database, by default in /var/cache/debconf/
<cjwatson> how to rm all of it in postrm: dh_installdebconf sets this up for you
<sticky_fingers> thanks cjwatson
<sticky_fingers> I have read the man page and also debconf.conf.
<sticky_fingers> funny that there is no tutorial video on the issue
<sticky_fingers> I guess that many people dont use ?
<sticky_fingers> I see I put Frontend inn my config file then put that in /debian/source/DEBIAN
<sticky_fingers> along with temlet files
<sticky_fingers> like
<sticky_fingers> # This is a sample config file that is
<sticky_fingers>          # sufficient to use debconf.
<sticky_fingers>          Config: configdb
<sticky_fingers>         Frontend: dialog  Templates: templatedb
<sticky_fingers> I am calling dialog
<sticky_fingers> sweet and thanks
<sticky_fingers> I see why  pre depends in the controol file can be cool now
<cjwatson> Very few people in this line of work use tutorial videos.
<cjwatson> In my experience.
<cjwatson> Generally you should not be touching the capitalised DEBIAN directory directly.
<cjwatson> And you should certainly not be writing out that config file with "Config: configdb" etc. in it.  That's what goes in /etc/debconf.conf, which comes with the system.  Packages shouldn't touch it.
<cjwatson> Pre-Depends should be used only with care and typically only after discussion.
<cjwatson> There's certainly a place for it, but it can do bad things to upgrades if you're not careful.
<cjwatson> And it's often unnecessary.
<bobweaver> Thanks for all the tips cjwatson
<bobweaver> but when you say that very few people in your line of work dont use video tutorials. what do they use ? or did you go to school. Just wondering do I can also learn "the right way so to say " thanks :)
<cjwatson> Text documentation is much better at conveying this kind of information.  You can copy and paste from it, you can search it, you can page back and forward and read at your own pace, and so on.
<cjwatson> I guess there are some people who learn better from videos; I'm just saying that not many of them seem to be involved in packaging.
<bobweaver> yea but what about use peps with dyslisia
<cjwatson> Probably not very well-served at the moment, I'm afraid, although I do know of some Ubuntu developers with dyslexia who seem to get along.
<bobweaver> cool
<cjwatson> Also some blind developers.
<bobweaver> that gives me hope
<cjwatson> (Though I expect text is strictly better than video for them!)
 * bobweaver nods
<cjwatson> Isn't being able to copy and paste pretty useful if you're dyslexic, anyway?
<bobweaver> no not really because it is the way that you persive what you are reading
<bobweaver> pre-sieve *
<bobweaver> I ahve what is know as nonsence word dysilica
<cjwatson> Right, but output is a problem as well as input, as I understand it
<bobweaver> yes that is correct
<cjwatson> And packaging files aren't going to be tolerant of typos
<cjwatson> So having something to copy and paste from seems like it'd be a useful aid
<bobweaver> code is different to me as it has things that are like start and stop ect
<bobweaver> but I mess up all the time :)
<bobweaver> so yeah manual are great
<cjwatson> The other thing that makes videos hard to do is that packaging is pretty non-linear - lots of branches depending on what you're doing
<cjwatson> There are some slides presentations on packaging you might be able to dig up, and I guess some of those might come with videos
<cjwatson> *slide presentations
<cjwatson> But I don't have any specific pointers
<cjwatson> And they probably don't exist for each specific niche
<bobweaver> I am sorry if I am dense here with this debconf   I am going to try and explain whre I am not understanding   here is what I have to make into debconf 3 things for questions and answerers thisis how I was doing before http://paste.ubuntu.com/936330/   so I would like to make this all happen at once at the start maybe in preinst I gather that I have to take and make a templetes file and also a configs file I think then in the templets file
<bobweaver> is where I hold anwsers and questions to be printed to the screen that are called using the config file but how is that called by the preinst ?
<cjwatson> You use a config file for asking lots of things at once at the start, not a preinst.
<bobweaver> sweet thanks
<cjwatson> A preinst isn't necessary here as far as I can see.
<cjwatson> (This is called "preconfiguration" in debconf-speak.)
<cjwatson> Yes, you need to write a templates file describing the questions you want to ask.
<cjwatson> Some of those questions shouldn't be asked at all, though; the FQDN can be picked up from the system, rather than asked again by individual packages.
<bobweaver> these are the things that must happen at postinst I think then package is done for tonight http://paste.ubuntu.com/936336/
<bobweaver> yeah I could fix that great idea thanks !!
<cjwatson> Likewise, most packages that think they need to know your public IP address are mistaken, although there are a tiny handful that actually do.
<bobweaver> you can see where I call all the vars in the 2nd paste
<bobweaver> where I am guessing that I am going to be calling some sorta db_go or something like that I was reading about
<cjwatson> Don't sed /etc/apache2/apache2.conf; non-apache packages aren't permitted to do that.  You should ship a sites-available fragment instead, I think.
<cjwatson> Use adduser (and addgroup if necessary) to create users and groups, not groupadd and useradd.  Check the section in the Debian Policy Manual about which ID ranges you may use.
<cjwatson> Don't hardcode user and group IDs.
<cjwatson> Your postinst needs to work correctly if run more than once, so think about all those cases where you're inserting lines.  Maybe they should be substitutions on a template or something instead.
<cjwatson> You really shouldn't fiddle with /etc/postfix/main.cf or /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf; those are owned by the respective packages.  I don't know if those particular packages offer a better mechanism.
<bobweaver> that is awesome like make foo/var1
<cjwatson> Ditto /etc/proftpd/proftpd.conf and /etc/bind/named.conf.
<cjwatson> The postinst shouldn't compile files.  Do that at build time and ship the compiled objects.
<bobweaver> like zsudo
<cjwatson> Yes.
<bobweaver> I can also take out cron correct
<cjwatson> Get somebody competent at security to check whether you need zsudo at all.  Extra set-id binaries are worrisome.
<cjwatson> Shipping a file in /etc/cron.d/ is fine, although I don't quite see why you need to touch it and set its mode in the postinst.
<bobweaver> yeah it is just a moudual that is not needed
<cjwatson> If you need to ship one, just include it in the package.
<bobweaver> oh yeah the /debian folder cron one
<cjwatson> SQL_LINE_NO=`expr $SQL_LINE + 1`  more efficient as  SQL_LINE_NO=$(($SQL_LINE + 1))  (etc.)
<bobweaver> or in make file ?
<bobweaver> I will post make file
<cjwatson> that depends whether the cron job is maintained as part of the package or by the upstream developers
 * cjwatson -> bed, yikes, 4am
<bobweaver> ok thanks for your help again cjwatson
<cjwatson> no problem
<cjwatson> looks like it's getting gradually simpler
<bobweaver> yup I am also seeing that
<bobweaver> esp postinst
<bobweaver> I would like to get that out there as most things say try not to use
<cjwatson> This package probably has an excuse for some postinst code, but yes, the less of it the better, generally
<cjwatson> Features are an asset but code is a liability, and all that stuff
<cjwatson> Anyway, bed
<bobweaver> cya thanks again
<dholbach> good morning
 * bregma_ sips his coffee
<Laney> quiet day :O
<highvoltage> moo
<micahg> ScottK: the request is invalid, but the package was syncd
<ScottK> micahg: We both sync'ed it.
<ScottK> Looks like yours won.
<micahg> ScottK: ah, ok, I figured you accepted it :)
<ScottK> I did.
<ScottK> Unseeded Universe isn't frozen, so I ran syncpackage and since it was there in the queue, I accepted it.
<ScottK> But it was yours.
<jtaylor> freeze is tuesday right?
<ScottK> I don't remember.
<jtaylor> still need to get a ipython bugfix release in :/
 * Laney looks for a schooltool ffe
<Laney> oh. someone accepted it
<nigelb> 4/ws 20
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-20
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<ajmitch> hi dholbach, iulian
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<jokerdino> we are still doing the fix it friday right?
<dholbach> jokerdino, at least I didn't prepare anything, but if you still have something important you want to fix, please do it :-)
<jokerdino> nothing important, was just checking if there is anything to grab
<jokerdino> hmm, libcvs perl 0.07-4 builds here
<micahg> jokerdino: where is that from?
<jokerdino> i pulled it from debian
<jokerdino> the rc bugs
<Laney> tumbleweed: do you know why this would happen: http://paste.debian.net/163957/ ?
<Laney> oops, remove the last src:
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/163958/
<Laney> erm
<Laney> I'm an idiot
<Laney> I thought specifying a src: would give me build-depends, but it gives reverse-depends of all binary packages, doesn't it?
<tumbleweed> yup
<Laney> doh
<Laney> also, any chance of Debian data? :-)
<tumbleweed> it's there
<tumbleweed> -r sid
<Laney> can it be defaulted to on Debian?
<tumbleweed> it is on debian
<tumbleweed> so DEB_VENDOR=Debian should od the trick
<Laney> cool
<Laney> so my amazing directory switching stuff should dtrt
<tumbleweed> :)
<Laney> good work batman
<Laney> carry on
<cmars232> DONE: Jenkins-CI EC2 instance up and running. Building binaries. Development toward fixing SSL issues with PyCURL.
<cmars232> INPROGRESS: Test & commit PyCURL branch, replace cron scripted builds with Jenkins PPA push, merge in alpha2 licensing development.
<cmars232> BLOCKERS: None
<s9iper1> any body have time that he can tell me that how to upload the PGP key to the ubuntu servers.. is there we need to add finger print in PGP  while uploading it because if there is no fingerprint than how the launchpad will retrive it from the ubuntu servers.. can any body help my provious key become inactive i dont know why
<wookey> cjwatson: I've filed a dpkg-cross update to fix a couple more packages which I'm hoping we can slip in to precise as it's just config: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg-cross/+bug/986226
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 986226 in dpkg-cross (Ubuntu) "Cache variable update to fix cross-builds for coreutils, util-linux" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> wookey: get it uploaded and we can review it on #ubuntu-release
<cjwatson> unless you're asking me to sponsor :)
<wookey> do I need to do special extra things like fill in SRU template?
<cjwatson> s'not an sru if it's pre-release
<wookey> I can;t upload anything to ubuntu directly, so yes I guess I'm asking for sponsorage
<cjwatson> OK, I'll take care of it, thanks
<wookey> I actually have a pile more dpkg-cross changes, which are probably a good thing, but wonder if it's wise to bung them all in at this stage?
<cjwatson> probably not
<cjwatson> simple and obvious wins a week before release
<wookey> that's what I decided and just left it as above
<wookey> OK. cheers.
<cjwatson> uploaded
<wookey> wow, that was quick :-)
<wookey> I just realised I fogot to fill in the LP: #bugnumber for automatic closing. So will need manual update. Sorry about that
<wookey> btw do you understand why some packages set $PACKAGE and some $PACKAGE_NAME. I tried wading through the autoconf and automake manuals but it was hard to work out what is currently favoured and what is 'old fashioned'.
<wookey> I plan to ask the list to get chapter and verse
<cjwatson> wookey: I dealt with the bug number by hand
<cjwatson> wookey: PACKAGE vs. PACKAGE_NAME - different things, PACKAGE is the actual source package name and PACKAGE_NAME is what's set as the package name in configure.ac
<cjwatson> IIRC
<cjwatson> oh, actually not
<cjwatson> wookey: PACKAGE is emitted by AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE.  It is set to either the first arg if the deprecated three-arg form is used, or to PACKAGE_TARNAME from AC_INIT otherwise.  PACKAGE_NAME is set by AC_INIT to the first arg passed to AC_INIT.
<cjwatson> wookey: I suspect really the modern form would be PACKAGE_TARNAME, because that's more likely to correspond to the machine-readable name of the package (e.g. "tar") rather than the human-readable description (e.g. "GNU tar").
<aantoon> hi, will 12.04 alternate support ssd+trim+luks out of the box or do I have to do some tweaking
<aantoon> knock knock
<aantoon> I would love an answer
<arand> aantoon: #ubuntu+1 might know
<aantoon> nah, they sent me here
<shadeslayer> aantoon: one sec
<shadeslayer> aantoon: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2012-April/013554.html
<aantoon> shadeslayer: thanks, nice reading :)
<aantoon> shadeslayer: interesting reading indeed but it did not answer the question it just added more questions to it....
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-21
<ockham> i'm currently packaging screenwriting app trelby, and i was wondering if there's any chance to still get it into precise at this stage; mostly because i'm pretty sure there isn't any screenwriting app packaged for ubuntu yet.
<StevenK> ockham: Precise is releasing in 5 days, not a chance, sorry.
<ockham> StevenK: ok, just making sure. more time for packaging, then.
<arand> Backports is your option, likely.
<ockham> and what about ocropus 0.4, whose dependency iulib will likely be fixed this weekend (both in debian experimental)? 0.3 was removed from precise due to conflicts with tesseract 3.x...
<StevenK> Any changes to Precise at this point are incredibly unlikely unless it fixes a tracked Critical bug.
<ockham> StevenK: ok.
<jtaylor> mh python-envisagecore does not install and I have no idea why :/
<jtaylor> debian is not affected
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: urgh, .pth files
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: it doesn't actually fail for me, just produces an ugly error
<ScottK> StevenK: For Universe stuff it's less unlikely than that.
<ScottK> (if it's a sync from Debian and as in this case fixes a regression)
<ScottK> ockham: ^^^
<ockham> ScottK: cool! (you mean the ocropus/iulib case, right? not the trelby one...)
<ScottK> yes.
<ockham> so maybe i should go ping jwilk then...
<ScottK> Possible.  No promises.
<ockham> is it a problem that this stuff lives in experimental currently? (unstable still has 0.3 AFAIK)
<ScottK> No.
<Gaming4JC> I thought this bug was fixed on oneric? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/821100
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 821100 in ia32-libs (Ubuntu Natty) "ia32-libs does not install /usr/lib32/libGL.so.1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Gaming4JC> apparently not because I still have it :P
<Gaming4JC> nvm fixed with lglu :D
<Gaming4JC> libglu*
<bobweaver> Hello everybody hope you are all having a great weekend. I am trying to rap my head around the rules file under /debian and was wondering what         %:        dh  $@     || is $@ like the #? inbash where it is calling the last call ? or is it like a wildcard where it attaches itself to dh ? thanks
<jtaylor> bobweaver: its a makefile macro, in this case the name of the target
<jtaylor> and the target is a wildcard (%) so its basically whatever you give the file as an argument
<jtaylor> http://www.cs.duke.edu/~ola/courses/programming/Makefiles/node7.html
<bobweaver> Thanks !
<bobweaver> I get it so it is going to each file ?
<bobweaver> one by one $@ aka like a while loop ?
<jtaylor> debian/rules is called with certain defined targets
<jtaylor> e.g. build, build-arch, build-indep, binary etc
<jtaylor> the dh program reads those and acts appropriatly
<bobweaver> so the dh aka debhelper is running at the /debian directory ? because dh knows too do this ? if this is correct how does it know ?
<jtaylor> the dh program is just a scheduler for other commands
<jtaylor> it calls other (debhelper) scripts in a certain order
<jtaylor> you could also write it all out explicitly in debian/rules
<jtaylor> thats how it was done before dh-7
<bobweaver> yes that is how I have made all my simple packages by altering rules
<bobweaver> rules file *
<bobweaver> Just tying to wrap my head around the bigger picture so to say and understanding why all these things are going on when they are.
<jtaylor> if you open /usr/bin/dh around line 350 the standard sequences are defined
<bobweaver> Thanks !
<jtaylor> line 420 it defines the targets that must be exposed
<jtaylor> the sequences can be altered by scripts in /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/
<jtaylor> e.g. for special handling of python packages
<jtaylor> which would add e.g. dh_python2 to the install sequence
<jtaylor> debhelper is all quite readable for perl
<bobweaver> jtaylor,  you are awesome !
<bobweaver> I see where the compat files are getting called also now.
<jtaylor> here are the makefile targets that must or can be defined: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules
<bobweaver> I have read that manual so many times :D could not understand it for the life of me for the 1 week. It is starting to come together Just going to take me some time. I have had great Help :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-22
<fo0bar> for bug 946067, am I responsible for changing the statuses back from Incomplete to Confirmed, once the the SRU prep is finished?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946067 in libSNMP-session-Perl "SNMP_Session re-imports Socket6, producing warnings [SRU]" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946067
<micahg> fo0bar: once it's ready for sponsorship, yes
<fo0bar> micahg: ok, thanks
<micahg> fo0bar: this looks fine for inclusion in precise final I think, unseeded universe doesn't freeze for about 48 more hours
<micahg> although, I think I'd prefer an upstream blessed patch
<fo0bar> micahg: it's actually patched upstream, but the debian maintainer for libsnmp-session-perl appears to be MIA.  I should probably poke the debian bug, and if that doesn't go anywhere, maybe get the MRTG maintainer to adopt it (since they're closely related)
<micahg> ok, I was trying to link the upstream bug and am failing (will try again in a bit), let me go look at it
<micahg> the upstream bug is stil open though
<fo0bar> http://oss.oetiker.ch/mrtg-trac/ticket/45
<fo0bar> closed/fixed
<micahg> fo0bar: that's in mrtg's tree, not snmp-session :)
<micahg> https://code.google.com/p/snmp-session/issues/detail?id=5
<fo0bar> ahh oops, I was taking MRTG's word for it.  I probably should have actually checked to see if it really was fixed upstream :(
<micahg> fo0bar: they probably use an in-tree version for their stuff
<micahg> libsnmp-session-perl upstream seems pretty dead
<fo0bar> ahh yes, you're right.  they do, but debian disables it in favor of libsnmp-session-perl
<fo0bar> everything is horrible, hooray! ;)
<micahg> that upstream is dead as well
<micahg> fo0bar: since everyone seems to be stalled, I'll take the patch
<fo0bar> micahg: thanks.  it's not the best situation, but I can probably push for some sort of decision to be made at the debian level by Q
<micahg> fo0bar: any chacne you've tested the other reverse dependencies (cricket, iog, smokeping)
<fo0bar> though I'm not too enthusiastic about it, since a similar situation happened a few weeks ago, and as a result I'm now the debian maintainer for digitemp
<micahg> fo0bar: congrats :)
<micahg> fo0bar: maybe you can get a new upstream in for Q and drop our diff :)
<fo0bar> micahg: lamont tested the patch for cricket with success, but independent of me.  I don't think he's tested the debdiff in the patch, but since the debdiff is the patch + changelog, it's effectively confirmed
<micahg> yeah, no worries about that, what about the other 2
<fo0bar> I have not tested, I can probably get some setups going
 * fo0bar has no idea what iog is, actually
<fo0bar> ahh, yet another grapher
<micahg> both have low popcon, I'm not going to worry too much
<fo0bar> without a manpage, even
<micahg> alright, let me get a test build going, then I'll sponsor
<fo0bar> ok.  I'll check smokeping, since I've at least heard of that, but never used it
<fo0bar> micahg: hope I get to see you at UDS :)
<micahg> fo0bar: I should be there :)
<fo0bar> I'm not an Ubuntu developer, and I won't be going for IS duties, but it's my first UDS and I'm only a 3 hour drive from oakland, so what the heck
<micahg> fo0bar: cool, there are many other ways to help Ubuntu besides being a dev and there are quite a few people at UDS who are not Ubuntu devs
<micahg> in fact most aren't :)
<fo0bar> yep
<micahg> fo0bar: thanks for the debdiff, it's uploaded, waiting approval from an archive admin (since the archive is frozen for final), I changed it back to the release pocket (since it's arch:all it doesn't need staging), and the version back to ubuntu1
<fo0bar> micahg: smokeping's SNMP_Session functionality is limited to some specific use cases (Cisco and JunOS "pings", neither of which I have equipment set up for currently), and from grepping the code, neither use Socket6 before SNMP_Session (or at all), which is triggering the problem in mrtg and cricket.  I have confidence the fix will not affect smokeping
<micahg> fo0bar: thanks for checking that out
<fo0bar> micahg: excellent, thanks
<micahg> laney: what's the trick to seeing if haskell uploads are featureful again?
<Laney> read the diff :P
<micahg>  73 files changed, 7603 insertions(+), 4494 deletions(-), I'd rather not...
<Laney> which one is it?
<micahg> threadscope
<Laney> aha, well sadly I don't know of a trick
<micahg> meh, let
<micahg> let's hope fixes FTBFS + no rdeps is good enough
<Laney> if it fixes that
<Laney> then yes that sounds good to me
<vibhav> debuild -S -sa
<vibhav> oops
<vibhav> sorry guys
<micahg> laney: bug #986803, care for a quick approval?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 986803 in threadscope (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync threadscope 0.2.1-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986803
<Laney> yes sir
 * micahg has a few others in teh queue as well
<Laney> might look at the queue later
<Laney> currently seeing about importing ubuntu description translations into udd
<Laney> I also found out that you can fix gitit's build by commenting out that type signature and letting ghc infer the type instead, but haven't packaged that up (if anyone has the inclination to do so)
<vibhav> Laney: sure
<jtaylor> anyone want to upload ipython in debian so I can sync it? else I'll upload ubuntu only and wait for my dm powers to kick in
<jtaylor> my sponsor has no time
<Laney> did you ask d-python?
<jtaylor> yes but there is no urgency there
<Laney> there are ubuntuish python people :-)
<jtaylor> who are also here :)
<Laney> ._,
<Laney> ScottK: would you care to look at bug #986772? It looks like it will require an archive admin.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 986772 in gcc-mingw-w64 (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync gcc-mingw-w64 5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986772
<vibhav> Is it nice to provide debdiff for sync requests?
<cjwatson> Laney: why does that require an archive admin (other than maybe NEW processing after the sync)?
<Laney> cjwatson: exactly for that
<Laney> I didn't want to approve it this late without someone lined up to do it.
<cjwatson> Laney: it'll be fine
<cjwatson> NEW processing from syncs is easy
<Laney> I know. I thought it prudent to ask in the final week though
<cjwatson> Laney: you can pencil me in if that helps; if somebody else beats me, all to the good, but I'll make sure NEW is clear
<Laney> cjwatson: Thanks. I'll try to get to it later.
<Laney> Frittata first. Om nom nom.
 * cjwatson is waiting for very slow builds
<cjwatson> generally trying to clear outdate_all
<cjwatson> I think I have fixes for qemu-linaro/powerpc and visualvm
<cjwatson> and I know roughly what to do about libsignatures-perl
<cjwatson> wagon has me a bit stumped at the moment
<cjwatson> java--
<vibhav> Is there any option for showing bugs fixed upstream excluding debian?
<vibhav> If I fix a typo in a certain program, do I need to change the .pot file too?
<jtaylor> last chance for an ipython sponsor to step up :)
<jtaylor> and uploaded
<Laney> it's reasonable to upload directly if it's urgent
<Laney> just make sure to sync again when you can
<micahg> jbicha: any comments before I sync bug 986800
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 986800 in rygel (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync rygel 0.14.0-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986800
<jbicha> micahg: no, I couldn't figure out how to use rygel ;)
 * micahg hasn't used it either, but it builds now :)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-15
<dholbach> good morning
<highvolt1ge> good morning
<geser> good morning
<Laney> jtaylor: it was "I'll leave it up to you (and the uploading developer) to decide if you think it's bug fix"
<ESphynx> Hey guys ;) How late are we in the Raring schedule? Would a new micro-release make it?
<jtaylor> bugfix only for leaf packages maybe
<ESphynx> jtaylor: it's all bug fixes but rather invasive :P
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-16
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<jtaylor> ScottK: why did you use version number 2.2a for mnemosyne?
<jtaylor> also there is a new bugfix version (bug 1169634), do you still want to add it to raring?
<ubottu> bug 1169634 in mnemosyne (Ubuntu) "Please upgrade to the (bugfix only) version 2.2.1 for Raring Ringtail" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1169634
<jtaylor> looks like a good idea
<jtaylor> arg my iptables rules to restrict pbuilder network access was wrong all the time ._.
<jtaylor> hm I guess this will fail for ipv6? iptables -I OUTPUT ! -d 127.0.0.1 -m owner --gid-owner 1234 -j REJECT --reject-with icmp-port-unreachable
<stgraber> chances are you can add a matching ip6tables, swapping 127.0.0.1 for ::1
<jtaylor> just discovered that now :)
<jtaylor> I was looking for iptables6 ...
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-17
<ScottK> jtaylor: No idea.  Maybe I screwed up.  In any case, an update would be welcome.
<ScottK> Let me know if you won't have time to do it.
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> jtaylor: what's up with all the breaks in numpy?
<jtaylor> Laney: the previous version moved a file from one package to another
<jtaylor> with incomplete breaks, I added them to make it easier to sync with debian when they do it properly
<Laney> did you file it?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> unfortunately I'm not positive they'll do it at all ._.
<Laney> well, i need to go to the bike shop now i'm afraid
<jtaylor> morph is not exactly known to make live for ubuntu easier
<Laney> maybe you can convince someone else to upload it before FF ...
<jtaylor> barry: ^
<barry> jtaylor: what's the package and context?
<jtaylor> bug 1168652
<ubottu> bug 1168652 in python-numpy (Ubuntu) "merge python-numpy 1.7.1-1 from debian experimental" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168652
<barry> jtaylor: i'll look at it
<barry> jtaylor: do you have an ffe for that?
<jtaylor> it is bugfix only
<barry> k
<barry> jtaylor: the debdiff doesn't look right.  d/changelog is adding a bunch of versions back that already exist in the changelog
<jtaylor> its a debdiff on ubuntus version
<jtaylor> debians
<jtaylor> so its not cluttered with upstream changes
<barry> jtaylor: i'll try to do a udd merge and see if that makes sense
<barry> jtaylor: i have a 1.7.1-1ubuntu1 that i bzr merged from the experimental branch into the raring branch.  afaict, it looks good, so unless you object or want to review it first, i'm going to upload it
<jtaylor> barry: is there a diff to my debdiff?
<barry> jtaylor: against raring: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5716750/
<barry> jtaylor: against experimental: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5716751/
<jtaylor> barry: I mean against my debdiff
<barry> jtaylor: not so easy to generate
<jtaylor> apt-get source python-nump; cd ....; patch -p1 <debdiff; debdiff *dsc ?
 * barry cries
<barry> jtaylor: hang on
<jtaylor> I can create a branch if thats what you want
<barry> jtaylor: a branch against ubuntu:raring would be fantastic
<barry> *ubuntu:python-numpy
 * jtaylor is a bit annoyed that I have to adapt my method for each sponsor
<jtaylor> I expected doko to merge this time :/
<Laney> Yeah, a debdiff on top of Debian is a pretty standard way to submit a merge ...
<barry> jtaylor: yeah, we do that just to test you and keep you on your toes :)
<jtaylor> barry: lp:~jtaylor/ubuntu/raring/python-numpy/1.7.1-merge should be it
 * barry looks
<barry> jtaylor: looks good, thanks.  i'll do a local build/test and if goes okay, i'll sponsor it for you
<barry> jtaylor: oops, i just need to add LP: #1168652 to d/changelog
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1168652 in python-numpy (Ubuntu) "merge python-numpy 1.7.1-1 from debian experimental" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168652
<jtaylor> hm I'm not closing the merge bug in the changekog
<barry> right, i'll fix that
<jtaylor> thx
<jtaylor> hm I guess I should still update matplotlib too
<jtaylor> why do the pyscience stack package always have to release a few weeks before ubuntu releases :(
<jtaylor> oO a new gdb upstream built with py3 a week before release? o_O
<jtaylor> is aarch64 that important?
<jtaylor> I guess I should not fell so bad to add so late bugfix only software then
<barry> jtaylor: uploaded
<jtaylor> barry: thx
<barry> daman rejected
<jtaylor> barry: judging by the time you did it you probably did not run the autopkgtests?
<barry> jtaylor: correct.  i really need to get those integrated with my sbuild environment so they run automatically
<jtaylor> barry: I have a runner which prepares for pbuilder
<jtaylor> should also work with sbuild if it has a --execute equivalent
<barry> jtaylor: nice.  i've seen something about autopkgtest + sbuild, but i haven't had time to try it out (can't remember where right now)
<jtaylor> barry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5716940/ that would be mine, very ugly code but works quite ok
<jtaylor> takes a dsc and a changes file as argument
<barry> jtaylor: nice
<jtaylor> would probably simpler and faster to run each test in its own chroot instead of doing the dependency juggling, on the other hand that tends to find installation/removal bugs quite nicely :)
<jtaylor> hm python3-pyparsing is an empty package in raring? oo
<jtaylor> hm its main, main freezes tomorrow or?
<Laney> jtaylor: broke in the last upload
<jtaylor> yes reported a bug
<jtaylor> bug 1170107
<ubottu> bug 1170107 in pyparsing (Ubuntu) "python3-pyparsing is an empty package" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170107
<barry> jtaylor, Laney ouch
<Laney> indeed
<barry> jtaylor: are you going to look at that?
<jtaylor> hm I wanted to do matplotlib
<jtaylor> but as this is a deps I guess I must
<Laney> might want to subscribe zul so that he's made aware
<jtaylor> too many users with zul in the name in lp :(
<Laney> zulcss?
<jtaylor> found it
<jtaylor> I see why it could happen, the pyparsing rules file is weird
<jtaylor> it deletes pyparsing in the clean target and after setup.py install, but it does not seem to be a generated file
<jtaylor> I guess it works in debian because of binary uploads
<jtaylor> this thing needs a autopkgtest bad
<Laney> how did it previously work in ubuntu?
<jtaylor> good question
<jtaylor> ah
<jtaylor> it was generated in 1.5.6
<jtaylor> generated = mv pyparsing_py2.py pyparsing.py
<jtaylor> Ill fix the package, barry Laney willl you sponsor?
<barry> jtaylor: yep, give me a branch and i will
<jtaylor> hm it fails its own test
<jtaylor> hm ok it seems to be more an example named test() instead of a test
<jtaylor> ok its a bit weirder
<jtaylor> from what I can tell upstream intentionally dropped py3 support
<jtaylor> while listing fixed bugs for python3 in the changelog
<jtaylor> I'll just through 2to3 over it and see what happens with the examples, I don'T really have time for more :/
<jtaylor> ok 2to3 does not work
<jtaylor> barry: lp:~jtaylor/ubuntu/raring/pyparsing/fix-py3-package
<barry> jtaylor: cool, looking
<jtaylor> I'll forward my changes to debian tomorrow
<jtaylor> back to what I actually wanted to do today ._.
<jtaylor> ffs ImportError: matplotlib requires pyparsing >= 2.0.0 on Python 3
<jtaylor> (git head that is, wanted to verify a test failure ...)
<jtaylor> so probably the fixed package is not better than the empty one :/
<jtaylor> hm the changes does not list anything special, so maybe its ok, it passes its examples
<barry> jtaylor: how quickly can you get an ffe approved? ;)
<jtaylor> 2.0 version drops support for py2
<barry> lovely
<jtaylor> maybe it works with 2.7 though
<jtaylor> I don't think its a good idea
<jtaylor> the changelog actualyl does not list any changes besides that
<barry> no, agreed not at this late date
<jtaylor> I'll check with matplotlib upstream why they need 2.0 and not 1.5.7
<barry> jtaylor: still seems worth getting a non-empty pyparsing in though, yeah?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> the examples run
<jtaylor> also its mini testsuite
<barry> jtaylor: re those seds in d/rules.  not now, but probably the right way to do those is with custom fixers
<barry> jtaylor: pyparsing looks good me me, sponsoring
<jtaylor> thx
<jtaylor> hm
<jtaylor> actually the python-all addition does not do anything
<jtaylor> but it doesn'T matter for raring
<jtaylor> I'll fix that when I forward it to debian
<barry> +1
<jtaylor> (forgotten the loops in debian/rules)
<jtaylor> and the autopkgtest will remind us to fix it for raring+1,as there I added them ..
<jtaylor> its to late, I probably should not upload matplotlib anymore :(
<jtaylor> uh the multiarching  of tk subtly breaks matplotlib too :/
<jtaylor> bug 752647 revisited
<ubottu> bug 752647 in matplotlib (Ubuntu Natty) ""import pylab" in a python console flags error "No module named _tkagg"" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752647
<jtaylor> funny enough probably one of the first bugs I ever worked on in ubuntu :)
<barry> dig the retro 6 digit bug number!
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-18
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<jtaylor> can I still upload a matplotlib bugfix release to universe?
<dtchen> pretty sure you can
<vagrantc> i can't figure out how to mark https://bugs.launchpad.net/pithos/+bug/988395 as confirmed, or is  that a privledge limited to only some users?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 988395 in pithos (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Pandora v34 API Update Required" [High,Triaged]
<dtchen> vagrantc: well, it's actually the 'verification-done' tag, but the SRU team takes care of that.
<jtaylor> I think the users are supposed to remove it
<jtaylor> or replace -needed with -done
 * vagrantc isn't savvy with launchpad
<dtchen> indeed; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PerformingSRUVerification refers to the SRU verification team, so I suppose that's appropriate.
<jtaylor> you click on the little yellow button next to the tags and replace verification-needed with verification-done
<jtaylor> no one complained to me yet I changed the tags :)
<jtaylor> I guess they actually monitor tag lists not necessarily the comments in the bugs
 * vagrantc eventually found the right little yellow button
<vagrantc> hmm.. i changed it, but it sounds like the SRU team is supposed to do that... ?
<dtchen> vagrantc: I think you're fine doing it yourself, too.
<vagrantc> dtchen: thanks for the encouragement :)
<ScottK> jtaylor: Isn't 2.2.1-0ubuntu1 < 2.2a-0ubuntu1
<jtaylor> not according to dpkg --compare-versions 2.2a-0ubuntu1 lt 2.2.1-0ubuntu1 && echo yes
<jtaylor> apparently dpkg version compare is special cased for this
<ScottK> Interesting.
<ScottK> python-apt gave me a different answer.
<jtaylor> hm
<ScottK> I'll believe dpkg.
<ScottK> We'll find out in a minute.
<jtaylor> I though a > . too
<jtaylor> but dpkg should be the reference
<ScottK> Yep
<ScottK> jbicha: Do you want http://launchpadlibrarian.net/137725022/gnome-shell_3.6.3.1-0ubuntu4_3.6.3.1-0ubuntu5.diff.gz to go in?
<jtaylor> The lexical comparison is a comparison of ASCII values modified so that all the letters sort earlier than all the non-letters
<jtaylor> policy 5.6.12
<jtaylor> I guess python-apt is wrong then
<jbicha> ScottK: yes, I was actually the sponsor for it :)
<ScottK> jbicha: OK.  thanks.
<jbicha> but I guess that's not terribly obvious from the queue page
<ScottK> jbicha: Accepted.
<ScottK> No, it's not.
 * jtaylor wishes there was an easier way to update autopkg testcases :/
<jtaylor> I want working tests for ipython, but I don't want to make a new upload for a missing comma in a test control ._.
<jtaylor> (I hoped to be able to use the debian upload to unstable for that, but now its post raring :( )
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-19
<achiang> has anyone ever heard of a way to package a deb inside another deb?
<achiang> maybe the wrapper deb's postinst could recursively call dpkg -i on the inner deb? or i suppose not, because you'd already have a lock on the apt database...
<RAOF> achiang: That's an odd thing to want to do; I presume what you actually want is to download something from the web and install it as a part of package installation, yes?
 * dtchen wonders if anyone actually uses D (the language, and subsequently the older gdc-v1) in 13.04
 * ScottK wave to dtchen.  Great job on all the FTBFS fixes.
<dtchen> ScottK: danke. It has been a wild ride indeed. :)
<rostam> HI I am trying to make an Ubuntu package which only includes header files. Is there a such a package that I can use for reference? thanks
<dholbach> good morning
 * Laney sighs at things depending on emacs23 explicitly
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-20
<Oranger> Hello everyone, I have a problem with pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy, for him qt5-qmake and qtchooser are virtual package while they are not in raring... how can I fix it ?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-21
<dtchen> sigh, love when I mistitle a bug report with "...eglibc-2.7" :)
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-14
<ScottK> jtaylor: bin New done.
<jtaylor> thx I'll rebuild pytables tomorrow
<dholbach> good morning
<eagles0513875> hey guys I have a question I am part of the LMMS community and the version taht was pulled for 14.04 was from the wrong branch, and I am working to rectify the situation. My question is granted 14.04 isnt released yet, can I file an SRU at this point or have to wait until after release?
<eagles0513875> ikonia: hey :)
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-15
<ScottK> eagles0513875: Depends on how fast.
<ScottK> eagles0513875: Get the package ready and we can either fix it before release or as an SRU at release time depending on how things go.
<dholbach> good morning
<eagles0513875> ScottK: when you say package you mean the source package right
<ScottK> Yes
<israel_> Jonathan, I am here
<eagles0513875> hey ScottK israel_ is working on a fixed package of lmms he asked me if it had to be built for trusty or can it be based of raring package
<ScottK> It should start with what's in trusty as a point of departure.
<eagles0513875> israel_: ^
<eagles0513875> israel_: are you building the trusty package
<ScottK> Note: I'm about to vanish offline for the day.
<israel_> ok, I am reworking that package to use trusty as we speak
<eagles0513875> ScottK: just a note as to the issue at hand
<israel_> ScottK thanks so much for your help!
<eagles0513875> ScottK: the issue is that the lmms master branch was packaged and pulled into trusty and basically we want to fix it with the correct stable branch for 14.04 release
<eagles0513875> ScottK: do you think this is worth of a prerelease update or an SRU
<israel_> eagles0513875 lp:/~israeldahl/ubuntu/trusty/lmms/lmms-1.0.1 will be the new one.  I am pushing it... but I will have to check it some before I can say it is 100%
<eagles0513875> israel_: ok just mention it on the bug i filed as I have someone in ubuntu-studio whose a dev willing to also sponsor this fix and test
<israel_> Great!  The initial builddeb went fine... I haven't done a full pbuilder yet... so I will upload it and build a PPA (which will run pbuilder anyhow)
<israel_> Oh... and this is good to do as, Jimo added the old school lmms.xpm to silence errors.  I put a newer one in.
<israel_> eagles0513875 I am not sure which e-mail the link to your bug is... can you just send it to me here real quick?
<eagles0513875> ok
<eagles0513875> hold on
<eagles0513875> israel_: i think you are auto subscribed on the list of people to be notified
<eagles0513875> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lmms/+bug/1307591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307591 in lmms (Ubuntu) "LMMS 1.0 baed off the wrong branch" [Undecided,New]
<israel_> got it thank you so much for all your work on this!!  this makes these troublesome issues much easier to bear when there is such a nicer community effort!!
<eagles0513875> israel_: also assign yourself to that bug please as I cant change it i changed it to in progress
<israel_> done
<eagles0513875> israel_: least I can do as others are focused on other things. its also nice to know even with toby on vacation that we can still make progress
<eagles0513875> great :)
<eagles0513875> israel_: just keep that updated at least those subscribed can follow the issue :)
<israel_> I will write on there when the package is uploaded AND builds in the launchpad farm... as LP caught some odd patching errors I had that my own pbuilder didn't
<eagles0513875> ok. all you need to do is upload the source
<eagles0513875> if its already there we cna progress to getting the issue resolved
<eagles0513875> israel_: i sent you a pm i need to discuss with you future builds that involve master
<Logan_> wgrant: what did you just do with soundconverter? :P
<wgrant> Logan_: Ahem. A no-op copy on the wrong Launchpad instance, it'll sort itself out.
<Logan_> haha, no worries
<Logan_> was just curious :P
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-16
<eagles0513875_> hey all :)
<eagles0513875_> ping ScottK
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<eagles0513875_> mornig dholbach  and geser  :)
<eagles0513875_> hey dholbach i have a question is it possible to get a package updated just before relase as I am trying to get the right LMMS package into the repos before 14.04 is released if possible
<geser> IMHO you should take you time and make a good tested SRU instead of trying to rush it to get it in in the last second (if it would get accepted at this time at all)
<dholbach> eagles0513875: if you feel it's super urgent, here are the instructions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<eagles0513875_> dholbach: your opinion here. the current 1.0 lmms in the 14.04 repos is the wrong version and contains unstable features which we dont want to give to users. would you recommend a feature freeze exception or an SRU
<dholbach> I don't know what the impact is and haven't looked at what exactly the problem is
<dholbach> if you're unsure, you can reach out to the release team
<Unit193> zequence: ----^
<eagles0513875_> dholbach: i dont think it should cause any major issues. with 14.04 as dependencies havent changed just the branch that its built against
<dholbach> eagles0513875: feel free to file the exception and get in touch with the release team
<eagles0513875_> ok
<eagles0513875_> thanks dholbach
<lanoxx> hello, I would like to request a maintainer change for the package tilda
<Noskcaj> lanoxx, yes?
<lanoxx> Noskcaj, the current maintainer Ira Synder has no been active since a few years and I am the current debian maintainer for this package
<lanoxx> s/no/not
<Unit193> You are the Debian maintainer and Ubuntu syncs directly from there.
<lanoxx> Yes, Ubuntu has been synching my packages for some time now.
<Noskcaj> lanoxx, try #launchpad
<Unit193> So I suppose I don't understand the question.
<lanoxx> https://launchpad.net/tilda <--- There, the registered Maintainer is "Ira Synder", I want it to say "lanoxx"
<Unit193> Ahhh, I see.
<lanoxx> I have another question, I have released tilda 1.1.11 some month ago, but Ubuntu 13.10 is still at 1.1.8, why have the last 3 updates not been synched?
<geser> because Ubuntu 13.10 is already released and like in Debian stable only SRU are allowed for released versions
<geser> the next Ubuntu release 14.04 will have tilda 1.1.11
<zequence> eagles0513875_: I can get it in today, but the changelog needs to be fixed
<lanoxx> geser, 1.1.x are only stable bug fixes.
<zequence> unfortunately I'm not the person to ask how to fix it
<eagles0513875_> zequence: i have poked the guy
<eagles0513875_> zequence: mirv in stuiod dev channel helping him
<zequence> eagles0513875_: The version number needs to be sane, and the bug needs to be in the changelog as well
<lanoxx> geser, I am using semantic versioning in tilda, so these updates should qualify to SRU, or not/
<eagles0513875_> zequence: have you seen mirv's merge reuqest and his suggestions on what to fix
<geser> lanoxx: updates for a released Ubuntu version are a manual process (upload directly in Ubuntu), not an automatic sync like in the development release
<lanoxx> geser, so that would mean I have to make a request to update the package each time i release a new version in debian, yes?
<geser> lanoxx: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates; if you think the bug fixes are important enough to get the fixed version in a stable Ubuntu release then yes (the process should be similar to the process to fix a package in Debian stable)
<zequence> eagles0513875_: No. Won't have much time to look through stuff until later today
<ESphynx> hey guys, I can't seem to be building in 32 bit anymore?
<ESphynx> including stdint.h is broken on Trusty with -m32 :S
<ESphynx> ah might have been missing libc6-dev-i38
<md_5> anyone know if openjdk-8 is being worked on, or is it waiting for debian?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-17
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> good morning dholbach :)
<ESphynx> The big day today eh?
<dholbach> hi ESphynx
<dholbach> :-D
<ESphynx> how's it going
<dholbach> good good - how about you?
<ESphynx> pretty good :) still strugly to get our own release ready and get some other software going :)
<ESphynx> struggling*
<tych0> hi all, i have a package that has both python2 and python3 code in it (related to upstream stuff that we're gluing together; I can't change either)
<tych0> is there a nice way to include these both in the same source package?
<tych0> or do i need two separate source packages?
<Zhenech> tych0, why should it hurt in one source package?
<tych0> Zhenech: because some of the code in the source package is python2 only, and some of it is python3 only
<tych0> so that makes pybuild unhappy
<atomicturtle> Hi everyone, Im a developer on the  ossec.net project and we are working on packaging OSSEC for multiple Ubuntu distributions.
<atomicturtle> My question is how we can make 2 different repositories, stable and repo available for Ubuntu. Im familiar with adding packages to sources, but Im not clear on how we can do this for stable vs. unstable
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-18
* tumbleweed changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Trusty released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs
<Neo31> hello, i am trying to install ubuntu-sdk on trusty and this is what i get http://paste.ubuntu.com/7275155/ (PS : ubuntu-sdk-team ppa is added)
<xevwork> Is there a new distro-info-data package? pbuilder (on 13.10) is throwing "Distribution data outdated."
<Logan_> tumbleweed: ^ (I'm getting this as well in 14.04)
<xevwork> Logan_: I see it as a nonfatal warning on my 14.04 system. On my 13.10 system which is my main production build system, it's a fatal error and causes pbuilder to stop entirely with a nonzero exit status.
<Logan_> hmm, that's definitely a problem
<xevwork> Sure is.
<Logan_> infinity, any ideas why this is happening? :P
<xevwork> pbuilder uses a list of releases provided by the package distro-info-data
<Logan_> yes, but trusty is in it
<xevwork> The last release listed in that file is Trusty, and now we're past the listed "release date" in that file
<Logan_> right
<xevwork> So, the system now expects there to be a development release listed after Trusty in that file.
<Logan_> oh, I see
<Logan_> but we don't have a name for the next development release yet :P
<infinity> Logan_: What's happening is that distro-into is silly.
<infinity> A simple hack for now would be to edit /usr/share/distro-info/ubuntu.csv and extend the trusty line for a few weeks.
<infinity> And then when someone SRUs proper fixes with the next release, it'll overwrite that.
<xevwork> That's what I'm doing.
<infinity> But it's a fundamental flaw, IMO, in distro-info that it vomits so spectacularly after a release.
<xevwork> Sure is.
<xevwork> Well, if Ubuntu made sure to release a new distro-info-data package for all versions of Ubuntu as part of their release process, this wouldn't be an issue.
<infinity> xevwork: We do.  When we have the new name. :/
<infinity> xevwork: This is entirely on Mark not having given us a name.
<infinity> That said, it's still broken that distro-info behaves this way, process or not.
<xevwork> Upbeat Urial
<xevwork> ^ boom. Done.
<ESphynx> xevwork: I like Upbeat Urial, put it up @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames#A14.10 ? :P
<ESphynx> Upbeat Urchin? ;)
<ice9> just configured my development environment, where to look for simple bugs to start by?
<Neo31> ice9, launchpad.net or harvest ?
<ice9> Neo31: LP
<Neo31> ok good luck with that
<Neo31> also subscribe to the dev mailing
<ice9> but I don't see simple bugs they need a lot of work I guess
<ice9> and it's difficult to search bugs for specific app version
<ice9> Neo31: ^
<Neo31> ice9,  try looking in harvest
<Neo31> http://harvest.ubuntu.com/opportunities/
 * Neo31 is still a newbie too
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-19
<Unit193> What happens in cases like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomahawk <-> http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/tomahawk.html ?  The Debian package sounded far more interesting, and I had hoped Trusty would get it.
<Logan_> Unit193: we might want to recommend that Debian change the name of its source package to python-tomahawk :)
<Logan_> although, well: https://lists.debian.org/debian-wnpp/2013/08/msg01629.html
<Logan_> so maybe we should consider changing the name of our source package :P
<Logan_> I'll look into that for u-series; remind me
<Unit193> Python source packages are normally named without python- though, yeah.  Would really make sense to do that, and there won't be a binary package overlap at least.
<Unit193> I have a merge pending for Unicorn too, if you don't mind. :P
<Logan_> unless they come out with Python bindings for the Tomahawk player :P
<Logan_> Unit193: stop living in your delusion that it will be called "Unicorn"
<Logan_> in any case, we refer to them by their adjectives
<Unit193> Logan_: Well I do like Uakari better, yes. :D
<Logan_> that reminds me of that Python distribution, Wakari
<Unit193> But anywho, do you like dscs?  :/
<Logan_> no, Anaconda is their distribution; Wakari is the web service
<Logan_> that's an odd question
<Unit193> We're on -motu, makes sense to me.
<Logan_> I guess "poorly-phrased" would be a better adjective
<Logan_> what does "like" mean?
<Unit193> Accept, prefer, tolerate, choice of a mix.
<Logan_> Unit193: don't have a strong opinion either way
<ScottK> Unit193 and Logan_: The python-foo naming policy applies to binary packages, not source packages.  It often makes sense for them to be the same, but not always.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-20
<altair> Who is Brian Murray? Is he the Jon Skeet of Ubuntu?
<hyperair> blargh. why has banshee-community-extensions gotten stuck in proposed when there hasn't been a new upload since saucy?
<hyperair> it's been effectively removed from trusty
<altair> guys. How can I name a new package when I build it from a specific github revision? similar to packagename_1.0_0ubuntu1+svn1234.deb ??
<Laney> hyperair: I guess it was when banshee was gtk3
<Laney> would it have ftbfsed then?
<hyperair> Laney: hmm, but it doesn't show up
<hyperair> Laney: i mean the ftbfses don't show up
<hyperair> Laney: all arches except for arm64 are fine and arm64's becaues of gtk-sharp
<hyperair> gtk-sharp2, that is
<Laney> they've gone away now
<Laney> doko filed a bug to keep it in proposed
<Laney> and we don't even have mono on arm64 so I don't think that is relevant
<edv> Good day
<edv> I wish to upload a package I fixed to debian
<edv> I followed the packaging guide but I encounter a problem after I enter the submittodebian command
<edv> this is  the error I encounter after stating that I do not wish to edit the debiff
<edv> Distribution data outdated. Please check for an update for distro-info-data. See /usr/share/doc/distro-info-data/README.Debian for details.
<edv> Traceback (most recent call last):   File "/usr/bin/submittodebian", line 269, in <module>     main()   File "/usr/bin/submittodebian", line 263, in main     submit_bugreport(body, debdiff, deb_version, changelog)   File "/usr/bin/submittodebian", line 182, in submit_bugreport     check_call(cmd, env=env)   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/ubuntutools/subprocess.py", line 72, in check_call     retcode = call(*popenargs, **kwar
<edv> more of my terminal output here (just in case I wasn't clear enough)
<edv> Building using working tree Building package in normal mode Looking for a way to retrieve the upstream tarball Upstream tarball already exists in build directory, using that Building the package in /home/voinea/build-area/dooble-0.0+svn874, using dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -nc -S dpkg-buildpackage: source package dooble dpkg-buildpackage: source version 0.0+svn874-0ubuntu4 dpkg-buildpackage: source distribution UNRELEASED dpkg-buildp
<edv> duard <edvoinea@gmail.com>  dpkg-source --before-build dooble-0.0+svn874 dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libqt4-dev libqtwebkit-dev sharutils dpkg-buildpackage: warning: build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting dpkg-buildpackage: warning: (Use -d flag to override.) dpkg-buildpackage: warning: this is currently a non-fatal warning with -S, but will probably become fatal in the future dpkg-buildpackage: warnin
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-15
<Laney> debfx: you've got some stuff in backports NEW
<debfx> Laney: all done, thanks
<Laney> neat
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-17
<Rhonda> No codename for w release yet?
<Logan> Rhonda: nope, it'll be announced at http://markshuttleworth.com/
<Rhonda> Anyone around who could help me with what's needed for SRU + backport uploads for wesnoth, what version schema is state-of-the-art, whom I need to bother about them getting accepted?  It's about a CVE/security issue.
<micahg> Rhonda: for security, provide debdiffs and mark as security (public or private as appropriate), for backports, just request a new backport from whichever release it gets accepted from, #ubuntu-hardened can help with the security uploads
<Rhonda> version schema suggestion?  :)
<sbeattie> what micahg said, though once you've provided debdiffs, also subscribe the ubuntu-security-sponsors team.
<micahg> Rhonda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging
<micahg> sbeattie: thanks, forgot that we had that :)
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-18
<programmer> Hello! Anyone familiar with packaging software to release it into the ubuntu system?
<programmer> anyone here?
<Rhonda> micahg, about that adding "ubuntu1" to the version string, that won't work for SRU to trusty and utopic given that both currently have the same version.  Or can a SRU for them both be done with the same version?  I don't think so?
<maxb> Rhonda: "2.0-2 in two releases         2.0-2ubuntu0.11.10.1 and 2.0-2ubuntu0.12.04.1
<maxb> looks like the appropriate line from micahg's link
<Rhonda> maxb: Ah, missed that line, my bad. :)
 * Rhonda . o O ( and now I realized that I versioned wrongly, should have been ubuntu0.1 â¦ )
<maxb> You went with ubuntu1. ? So long as there isn't an actual ubuntu1 in the next series, I don't think that would cause any actual issue.
<maxb> Depends how picky people are feeling :-)
<Rhonda> Right, but I'm pedantic. :)
#ubuntu-motu 2016-04-18
<karstensrage> micahg, :(
<Rhonda> uups
<jtaylor> I guess its too late for a new upstream version from debian now?
<jtaylor> I'd really like a newer openblas in xenial as that thing is quite aweful to backport patches for
<jtaylor> (yey programs consisting of mostly assembler)
<rbasak> jtaylor: not too late - unseeded packages just follow the usual freeze process.
<jtaylor> hm ok I'll create a ffe then
<karstensrage> micahg, is there anything i can do to get these backports in? I know youre busy but its been weeks
<karstensrage> is there anyone else that does backports?
<teward> karstensrage: there's a few that do backports, but again, there's no SLA for backports to be done
<teward> you *really* need to wait and have more patience...
<teward> i know it's important to get that software into backports, but you *need* to have patience, right now it's "Prepare For Release" week...
<jtaylor> how to release I haven'T done any work in too long: when you forget what the dput target for ubuntu is ._.
<teward> jtaylor: heh
<jtaylor> ubuntu should be it in a default config right?
<teward> jtaylor: just plain dput
<teward> no extra args to push to Ubuntu
<teward> at least, unless they changed it since the last time I uploaded to Xenial (~1.5 weeks ago)
<jtaylor> yes seems to map to ubuntu
<teward> yup
<karstensrage> i think i have been somewhat patient
<karstensrage> i dont know whats involved with a backport so its hard for me to judge if its just pushing a button or more
<teward> karstensrage: do you have a bug for the backport?
 * teward will glance at it even though he can't do squat
<karstensrage> teward, i believe so
<teward> and by 'bug' i mean a backport request
<karstensrage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/precise-backports/+bug/1562434
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1562434 in trusty-backports "Please backport libpam-ufpidentity 1.0-1 (universe) from xenial" [Undecided,New]
<karstensrage> that?
<karstensrage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/precise-backports/+bug/1561837
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1561837 in trusty-backports "Please backport identity4c 1.0-1 (universe) from xenial-proposed" [Undecided,New]
<teward> karstensrage: erm, why did you assign it to Micah?
<teward> i don't think that's what you get to do :P
<karstensrage> its a PAM module and its associated library, i know that no backporter has the time or willingness to test that a PAM module works so i can do whatever need to compensate for that, but they have been ppa's for two months and are well testing
<teward> i think it's really a case of us focusing on Xenial
<teward> and i know you really want this
<teward> but Xenial release is only a few days off
<teward> after that maybe ping?
<teward> (everyone, I bet, is in Xenial-mode)
<karstensrage> well ok :(
<teward> and as was stated by infinity elsewhere, (I think it was infinity?) don't expect any type of SLA dictating time-to-address-backport
<teward> it doesn't exist :P
<teward> (they get to it when they get to it)
<karstensrage> of course i understand that
<karstensrage> it was just that i felt very close, it got pushed into xenial like within minutes
<karstensrage> so i figured it was just a push button kind of thing and was told twice that it could be gotten too (maybe)
<jtaylor> bugfix only in unseeded can still be just uploaded?
<teward> jtaylor: #ubuntu-release ?
<jtaylor> right probably more appropriate
<karstensrage> teward, ok, ill wait some more
<karstensrage> a few days an xenial will be released, is there a schedule or announcement page?
<teward> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<karstensrage> hmm ok
#ubuntu-motu 2016-04-19
<Rhonda> Guess it's too late now to request tmux 2.2 into xenial. :)
<Rhonda> (ok, was only just yesterday uploaded to Debian unstable)
<dholbach> ping the release team and ask if it's important
<Rhonda> Yay!
<Rhonda> For all those who didn't believe in me anymore â¦ (that is, including myself â¦):  packages.ubuntu.com now also shows the architectures from ports.  \o/
<Laney> nice!
<Laney> you made it support the split archive thing?
<Rhonda> Well â¦  I used the existing code and finally got around to understood the configuration for it and adapted the configuration.  >.>
<Laney> heh
<rbasak> Rhonda: thank you!
<Rhonda> There are some tiny bits that needs to get adjusted still though: http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/s390-tools  *hides*
 * Rhonda . o O ( let's see if that removal of "deb" b0rked it all â¦ )
 * Laney knows who is whispering in Rhonda's ear
<Rhonda> ssh
<Rhonda> Laney: silence, I'll kill you
<Rhonda> Wait.  Do I read this correctly, libunbound2 was in precise in universe but moved to main since trusty?
<rbasak> Rhonda: rmadison agrees.
<Rhonda> sweet. :)
<Rhonda> yay me!  http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/s390-tools now says ports instead of debports!
<Laney> high five
<Unit193> Logan: Wow, thanks for commenting!  And, debdiff(s) attached, now.
<Logan> you're welcome
<Logan> I'll probably just use grab-merge :P
<Logan> easier than sponsoring merge debdiffs
<Unit193> Logan: Well you know me, always have a dsc: https://sigma.unit193.net/source/apt-cacher-ng_0.9.1-1ubuntu1.dsc :P
<Unit193> But, that works too. :3
<Logan> haha too late
<Unit193> Hey that just means your name on it rather than mine in case something goes wrong. :>
<Logan> ahh, the life of a sponsor
<Unit193> I've been using 0.9.1-1 for a couple weeks or so now, so no real issues.  I had to edit the config as the patch does no good for me, in terms of by-hash.
<Logan> but do you know if the patch works well with 0.9.1?
<Logan> like, continues to work properly?
<Unit193> It should for normal use, yeah.  I just have a weird and patched up mini-dinstall.
<Logan> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2016-04-20
<Unit193> Logan: Oh, did you see LP 1562358 too?  /me ducks.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1562358 in python-googleapi (Ubuntu) "python-googleapi is incompatible with oauth2client >= 2.x" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1562358
<cmars> hey, is this upstream debian bugfix going to be in xenial? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcsc-lite/+bug/1551897
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1551897 in pcsc-lite (Ubuntu) "Excessive CPU utilization" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Logan> Unit193: hmm, how nice am I feeling today? :P
<Unit193> Logan: Tired and cranky is my guess. :3
<Logan> Unit193: do you want to see if gcalcli and creepy still work with the new version? it's packaged in experimentasl
<Unit193> Yeah I saw that.
<Unit193> gcalcli loses the traceback. \o/
<Logan> woo
<Logan> Unit193: gah, I'm not sure what's the best way to merge now
<Logan> MoM only generates merges from unstable
<Logan> I hate to say this, but I kinda miss having bzr branches of packages
<Unit193> I miss it in terms of being able to browse code without downloading (though it was slow.)
<Logan> that too
#ubuntu-motu 2016-04-21
<karstensrage> so 16.04 is being released tomorrow?
<karstensrage> teward, is that correct?
<karstensrage> i just read this https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/04/20/canonical-unveils-6th-lts-release-of-ubuntu-with-16-04/?_ga=1.55795433.393179487.1456169266
<Unit193> !xenial
<ubottu> Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial Xerus) will be the 24th release of Ubuntu. It is due to be released on April 21st. Discussion in #ubuntu+1 Await the release in #ubuntu-release-party
<karstensrage> ok so i can bug micahg on the 22nd :P
<karstensrage> any way good luck
<karstensrage> im rooting for  you
<teward> *sigh*
<teward> karstensrage: week four of "you need patience" being my reply
<sidi> On Wily, libwnck-1-0 is removed, but libwnck-dev remains, which means packages depending on libwnck-dev can't build (until ported to libwnck-3-dev I suppose). In that case, why would libwnck-dev not be removed too? Is that a mistake?
<rbasak> That's normal.
<rbasak> The -dev package uses the latest version of a library.
<rbasak> Then depending packages often don't have to be changed, just rebuilt.
<sidi> rbasak, my package builts failed with libwnck-dev, but worked with libwnck-3-dev (on the PPA build bots for Wily). Is it possible that the -dev wasn't updated yet?
<rbasak> Check what libwnck-dev depends on.
<rbasak> That should make it clear.
<teward> rbasak: libwnck-dev is relying on the 2.x series of that, and libwnck-3-dev is the 3.x version - both are in Wily
<teward> (which means confusion heh)
* Unit193 changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Xenial released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs
#ubuntu-motu 2016-04-22
<Rhonda> Hmm, php5 package was removed from xenial release?
<rbasak> Rhonda: yes, we moved to 7.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-04-23
<bipul> Hi
<bipul> Hello, I was trying to install pbuilder , and i am stuck at "I: Retrieving Packages "
#ubuntu-motu 2016-04-24
<Unit193> python-googleapi 1.5.0-2 uploaded by Laszlo Boszormenyi (gcs) (Closes: #814934)
#ubuntu-motu 2017-04-21
<tsimonq2> Since Artful is opening soon, and that has no Feature Freeze, I think I'm going to work on some more Debian merges.
<tsimonq2> Let's see if I can get one done tonight...
<tsimonq2> Done: bug 1685054
<ubottu> bug 1685054 in vlc (Ubuntu) "Merge 2.2.5-1 from Debian Sid or sync from Debian Experimental" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685054
#ubuntu-motu 2017-04-22
<Unit193> mapreri: I know that you aren't the correct person to talk to this with, but telegram from the repos fails to load when I set QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2 (I'm on Xfce, looks awful without that.  Shipped by default in Xubuntu), but the upstream version does not.  The patch Avoid-depending-on-static-libraries.patch sets QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE=qwerty, which I wonder if that conflicts.
<Unit193> I see 1680943 seems related.
<mapreri> Unit193: indeed, there is very little to nothing I can do about.  Please just follow up on the respective bug(s) (ISTR there is one on lp as well as one on the debian btS)
<Unit193> mapreri: I don't think I saw the bts one, but ginggs was close enough on LP.
<Unit193> (Since I haven't tested my guess, it's a random guess anyway..)
<tsimonq2> Sponsorable patch here: bug 1685546
<ubottu> bug 1685546 in healpix-cxx (Ubuntu) "Merge 3.30.0-6 from Debian Sid" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685546
<tsimonq2> Sponsorable force sync here: bug 1685555
<ubottu> bug 1685555 in ostree (Ubuntu) "Force sync 2017.5-1 from Debian Experimental" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685555
<tsimonq2> Sponsorable force sync here: bug 1685557
<ubottu> bug 1685557 in python-qtawesome (Ubuntu) "Force sync 0.4.4+ds1-1 from Debian Sid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685557
<tsimonq2> That'll be it for me today.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-04-23
<tsimonq2> Unit193: irssi \o/
* mapreri changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Zesty released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs
* mapreri changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Zesty released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs
<mapreri> (I do not think there is much point in subscribing ~ubuntu-sponsors AND ping here at the same time)
<Unit193> mapreri: Thanks for the python-fastimport upload!  I didn't go to Debian first because upstream == maintainer, and poked him in the past with little success. :/
<mapreri> Unit193: yeah... I noticed that, and any time it happens I get a bit angrier..
<mapreri> (I didn't even try to contact that guy before uploading)
<mapreri> besides, the git repository is not compliant to the team policy :|
<sladen> mapreri: people are people.  Please try to "do the paperwork" to (a) give people a chance, (b) if/when we're ever asked, we can point back to it
<sladen> and twhen there's 4-5 of these in a row, it makes things a bit clearer
<Unit193> mapreri: I'm still stuck with bzr-fastimport because neither upstream nor can I find a bzr uploader to push it. :/  I know I'm bad when it comes to paperwork in Debian, but I've never had any luck with it so kind of wonder what the point is anyway, tbh.
<mapreri> Unit193: "bzr uploader to push it"?
<Unit193> mapreri: Someone from the bzr team.  Basically someone that can actually do a decent review rather than someone to just push it, though at this point I don't think I'm too concerned.
<mapreri> meh
<mapreri> Unit193: I'm not sure, but I always felt as the bzr team started fading long agoâ¦
<Unit193> Eg, berry.  I was in contact with him, he didn't have a lot of time, then ended up not doing much with bzr anymore.  Yeah, bzr is seriously in maintenance mode, or bitrot.
<Unit193> (If you were wondering: Hhttps://sigma.unit193.net/source/bzr-fastimport_0.13.0+bzr361-1aegir1.dsc)
#ubuntu-motu 2018-04-19
<alkisg> Hi, is there any way to maintain a list of patches to be applied while `debuild` is running? Afaik dpatch and quilt are supposed to be ran by the maintainer manually, before debuild...
<geser> IIRC quilt uses a "series" file where the patches (and their order) are listed (don't remember how dpatch is doing it) as the buildd needs to apply them too. But I don't know how it interacts with pure debuild (I've been always using pbuilder).
<alkisg> geser: thank you, I tried using the debian/ dir of a package that uses quilt, and the stock upstream/ dir, and nothing called quilt to apply the patches to the upstream dir when I ran debuild
<alkisg> So I'm guessing it's a manual process, unless there's something missing in debian/rules...
<alkisg> I don't think pbuilder would be any different; the source would still need to be pre-patched there, right?
<geser> I don't remember the details how quilt was used. You either had debian/rules to it or cdbs or debhelper
<Laney> If you use the source format 3.0 (quilt) then this is done for you by dpkg-source
<Laney> If you use 1.0 then you need code in debian/rules to apply and unapply the patches, and there are various helpers to do that
<Laney> But most people should do the former
<alkisg> Laney: thank you, I'm using `git pull` to fetch the upstream source, that's why I'd like to avoid the use of `dpkg-source` or other utilities that would mess with the git tree...
<alkisg> If there's no infrastructure to let me apply pathes *while building*, then yeah I should revisit my choices :)
<Rhonda> alkisg: Use a seperate branch for the Debian work.
<alkisg> Thank you Rhonda :)
<Rhonda> Personally I also don't commit the patched files to git and am likewise annoyed with that dpkg insists of having the patches applied at all times, but that's the way things work these days, so â¦
<Rhonda> I see little sense to have a) the files in debian/patches/* commited and on top of that the applied patches, too.  That's somehow doubled.
<alkisg> That's exactly how I feel too :)
<Rhonda> alkisg: I think there is some local option that you can set in the debian/source directory, but I stoped bothering and getting wound up about it.  It feels awkward about it but managed to live with it.
<Rhonda> alkisg: Thing is, dpkg(-source) needs to apply the patches to make sure that it wouldn't fail when starting to build it.  So it's a safety thing to have them applied all the times.  Seemingly that happened regularly enough to people that it was put in as a hard requirement.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-04-21
<udtccki> https://www.youtube.com/user/l0de/live IS POPPIN HOT RIGHT NOW STILL GOING!! CALL 315-505-4666. IRC.EFNET.ORG #lrh
<udtccki> https://www.youtube.com/user/l0de/live IS POPPIN HOT RIGHT NOW STILL GOING!! CALL 315-505-4666. IRC.EFNET.ORG #lrh
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#ubuntu-motu 2019-04-15
<Logan> Unit193: I have not. Why do you ask?
<Unit193> Logan: Figured if anyone would, it'd be you since you run his bouncer.  I've been poking at his packages in Debian, but one isn't team maintained so I'd actually have to have action from him before I could update (though I have it ready.)
#ubuntu-motu 2019-04-16
<Logan> he pretty much dropped off the radar, as far as I can tell :/
<Unit193> Indeed, as far as we (Xubuntu) know too.
<Unit193> TBH, kind of thought you did too until you poked me about pasystray.
