#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-31
<spayne> night all
* Kyral pokes crimsun
<Kyral> Something very wierd just happened, yet fixed my VLC somehow...
<ivoks> happt journey everyone
<ivoks> happy
<ivoks> have a good time at UBZ!
<zakame> now I wish I could be at UBZ
<crimsun> Kyral: heh, I didn't think there was anything mysteriously broken in the vlc I uploaded that I don't already know about (hotkeys)
<Kyral> Yah...but I don't understand how activating it though SSH would fix it...
<crimsun> did you ever get an strace?
<crimsun> (the old one's irrelevant since it's for an older version)
<Kyral> No....thats how I found out
<Kyral> I go to strace it, and I was surpised not to have a sgfault
<Kyral> so I do a vlc -vvv normaly and the remote interface fires up
<Kyral> So I get a copy of that, and when I got back to my room, it was working normally
<Kyral> Maybe the Remote connection somehow bypassed the part that was causing the segfault and allowed VLC to generate the files it needed to run locally
<crimsun> still doesn't explain why it's hitching on /usr/lib/vlc/, though
<Kyral> It isn't anymore
<crimsun> but it did.
* Kyral thinks
<crimsun> can you reproduce it when you mv ~/.vlc ~/.vlc.working ?
<Kyral> I did install vlc-plugin-sdl and vlc-plugin-svgalib.....
<Kyral> Gimme a couple mins, I'm watchin' Ai Yori Aoshi ;P
<Kyral> moved that dir
<Kyral> fires up find
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> fine :D
<crimsun> great, I'll chalk it up to PEBKAC ;-)
<Kyral> PEBKAC?
<crimsun> problem exists between keyboard and chair
<Kyral> *falls down*
<Kyral> Thanks a lot.....
<crimsun> otherwise I'll punt the probs to bddebian ;-)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Now, more Ai Yori Aoshi
<dholbach> sleep tight
* Kyral yawns and wonders if he should reinstall Ubuntu-Desktop....
<Kyral> Oh...I forgot.....this means that Backports are happening again
* Kyral makes sure his Breezy PBuilder is still around
<ecobuntu> i would like to help out with xubuntu...either packaging or maintaining.  i've already add some proposed packages on the website
<ajmitch> best to talk to crimsun or janimo :)
<crimsun> ecobuntu: we tend to discuss general packaging/maintainership issues here
<crimsun> (yep, he's in #xubuntu)
<ecobuntu> oh
<bddebian> Heya folks
<ajmitch> hi
* Kyral looks up from his milkshake
<Kyral> Yo!
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
<Kyral> Mmmmm, the sounds of Dapper goodness
<Kyral> and the sound of Backports being made
<bddebian> Heh
<Kyral> It makes me feel important when someone asks for a package and I just pbuilder it and say "Here you go!"
<Kyral> Note to self: Convince Mez to let me onto the BackportTeam
* ajmitch wishes he felt important :)
<Kyral> ajmitch, you are da man
<bddebian> ajmitch: I hear ya there buddy :-)
<Kyral> If I can go a day without being criticized by you its a good day ;P
<chillywilly> he's a nazi ;)
<bddebian> Heh, heya chillywilly
<chillywilly> whaddup ppl?
<ajmitch> Kyral: haha
<bddebian> Just got home from work so now I'm playing NWN :-)
<ajmitch> Kyral: I hardly criticise! :)
<chillywilly> anyone running Dapper right now?
<Kyral> I am :D
* ajmitch isn't quite that silly
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> ajmitch: pbuilder chroot?
<ajmitch> if I could
<Kyral> Have there been like no posts to the Ubuntu-Devel list in the past few hours?
<chillywilly> why can't ya?
<ajmitch> because I was getting 404 errors last time i tried a dist-upgrade
<Kyral> Or is my email just ****ed up
<chillywilly> ajmitch: doh
<Kyral> Hey is there any way to tell if emails have been bouncing from my account (Like emails from the Mailing Lists)
<Lathiat> Kyral: if too many bounce i think mailman unsubscribes you
<Kyral> Well, I haven't gotten the past few emails (Think my Inbox filled up even though I have been downloading them) and I just deleted alll the Trash
<Kyral> Yet I'm still listed as being on the lists
<Kyral> Maybe my school's email is just being f***ed up
<Kyral> or maybe they saw the vast amount of traffic from the emails and decided to block them as spam
<minghua> my school email used to do that
<minghua> but part of them was real spam
<minghua> that's mails from a list for me to moderate
<Kyral> Yah I think the flood from lists.ubuntu.com triggered a filter
* Kyral prepares an email to bitch
* Kyral is gonna STAB his OIT if they blocked lists.ubuntu.com
<Yagisan> G'day all
<Yagisan> could someone do me a quick favour. Can someone ping eyagi.bpa.nu and tell me if http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/doomsday.html loads
<Yagisan> I'm getting complaints in the forums that "teh doom site iz down"
<LaserJock> I can't load it
<Yagisan> LaserJock: that's odd - I can see it now. Thanks - I'll check out the server
<LaserJock> ping times out too
<Yagisan> LaserJock: what IP address does it resolve to in the ping ?
<LaserJock> 60.240.18.5
<Yagisan> LaserJock: that's the right ip
<Yagisan> LaserJock: found the error, the iptables script wasn't getting called when my link changed state
<Yagisan> LaserJock: thanks for your help
<LaserJock> Yagisan: no problem
<Yagisan> LaserJock: I now have a nice collection of "doodz I can't find teh doom site" complaints now
<Yagisan> LaserJock: I can't wait until they realise I haven't updated it too breezy yet :)
<LaserJock> Yagisan: lol
<Kyral> I'm already in Dapper :D
<Kyral> but night all
<LaserJock> well, I got a chroot in dapper
<Kyral> I have a Chroot in Breezy ;P
<Kyral> So I can Backport ;P
<Kyral> Anyway bedtime
<Yagisan> I be building my u604 chroots latter, to go with my u504, and d3.1
<Yagisan> ajmitch: did distcc work for you ? I still haven't been able to test my k6, I keep getting md5sum errors for breezy-security
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<tritium> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<tritium> Not bad.  Yourself?
<LaserJock> trying to write a research proposal, but other than that OK
<tritium> For what?
<LaserJock> a DOE sensor fellowship
<tritium> Oh, I think I've heard of that
<LaserJock> it might be DOD but I can't remember right now
<tritium> I think it is
<LaserJock> anyway, it is a pain in the butt but I need the money ;-)
<ajmitch> hi tritium, LaserJock
<LaserJock> hoa ajmitch
<tritium> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> s/hoa/hola/
<pef> hello
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning daniel!
<_Tonio_> morning everyone
<ajmitch> hello
<Mortas> morning
<syouth> morning it is
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> moins
<\sh> well...a bad morning...all my nightmares become true
<dholbach> \sh: what's up?
<ajmitch> eek
<\sh> dholbach: hehe...nagra fucked up
<ajmitch> I really wish I could burn this breezy cd
<ajmitch> but everything seems to have broken
<\sh> yesterday evening I was talking to our engineer about this damn smartcard provisioning problem...if the customer smartcards are ready this morning around 6am
<\sh> but, after at least 100k cards * average 4 commands to send == drum console which mixes the mpeg streams + the EMM streams together was crashing..
<Treenaks> \sh: ouch
<ajmitch> you'll be happy to get away from there for a week or two ;)
<\sh> nagra engineers from switzerland are working...but strangewise they don't know their system
<\sh> so..finally 100k customers with special dtv services are f'uped
<Treenaks> \sh: that's always the problem with engineers
<\sh> and we don't know how long it takes to fix this issue
<Treenaks> \sh: external ones
<\sh> Treenaks: they wrote the application
<Treenaks> \sh: I used to work at a telco, we knew more about the DSLAMs than the companies who made them
<\sh> Treenaks: and it's running for bigger tv providers around the world...but only in our company it's always crashing, fucking whatever, because we don't pay them to upgrade our software
<\sh> sorry for the bad words...but it's really hard to stay calm about those issues
<\sh> status meeting...brb
<Treenaks> \sh: good luck
<Yagisan> Treenaks, I'm an engineer - where not all incompetent
<Treenaks> Yagisan: the ones I met were :)
<Treenaks> Yagisan: they couldn't even handle the command line on their own devices
<Yagisan> Treenaks: I've met that kind too, but some of us are good
<Treenaks> Yagisan: I believe that :)
<Treenaks> Yagisan: but the don't send those to small telcos
<sivang> Morning all
<spayne> hey sivang
<dholbach> morning you two
<Mortas> hmm I should really pay more attention to what's happening
<Mortas> didn't even notice dapper opening :)
<Mortas> doh
<dholbach> haha :)
* dholbach hugs Mortas 
<Mortas> ah yes, more coffee and then to figure out what to start with
* ajmitch does some more packaging
* dholbach too
* spayne will look at dopi today
<ajmitch> so I guess by the end of UBZ I'll have made my first upload to dapper :)
<_Tonio_> dholbach: little question concerning revu
<_Tonio_> do we now have to upload dapper packages ?
<dholbach> oh come on... let's do some nice merges ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach: sure, I've only got 1 more day before I fly
<dholbach> _Tonio_: yeah, can't upload to breezy no more
<ajmitch> no time to get started on merges :)
<dholbach> just fix vim and lintian ;)
<ajmitch> vim?
<_Tonio_> dholbach: okay, changes required in the dput config I assume ?
<spayne> when does UBZ start>
<ajmitch> no dput changes needed
<ajmitch> spayne: sunday
<spayne> are you going ajmitch?
<ajmitch> yes
<spayne> woo!
<_Tonio_> ajmitch: okay
<_Tonio_> I think compiling kde packages fails at this time so I'll wait a bit
<spayne> how many normally attend>
<ajmitch> heh
<_Tonio_> problem with kdelibs4-dev
<ajmitch> spayne: hard to say what is 'normal'
<spayne> ajmitch: well, how many attend UDU?
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> 60-70?
<dholbach> 70, on the first day 110?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> first day was busier I think
<ajmitch> first day of UBZ will be mad
<Treenaks> hm, need to buy DV tapes then :)
<dholbach> yeah, i should think so
<dholbach> Treenaks: dv tapes?
<syouth> anyone knows when new amarok hits breezy?
<ajmitch> dholbach: so he can interview you
<ajmitch> syouth: when it's done
<Mithrandir> syouth: never.
<Treenaks> dholbach: yeah, for all the "Hi, I'm X and I use Ubuntu" things
<dholbach> syouth: breezy is closed
<Mithrandir> syouth: breezy is released.
<ajmitch> syouth: it won't be in breezy, but breezy-backports
<dholbach> Treenaks: that will be brilliant
<ajmitch> assuming that someone gets it in there
<dholbach> Treenaks: "my name is nico and i speak ubuntu" :)
<syouth> tehee
<ajmitch> "Hi, I'm Jeff Waugh".. ;)
<dholbach> ahha
<spayne> ajmitch: rotfl
<syouth> thanks... 1.3.5 was released yesterday
<dholbach> "my name is larry wall and i use gentoo ... no no nononono..."
<Treenaks> dholbach: ;)
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> daniels put the xgl server in dapper
<Treenaks> I don't want 50 people saying "Hi, I'm Jeff Waugh"
<ajmitch> I wonder how many users we'll have trying it out in the next few days ;)
<spayne> Treenaks: or 25 saying "Hi, I'm Mark Shuttleworth"
<Mortas> Treenaks: just ask for the old and way too funny ID card of jeff :)
<Treenaks> spayne: did you see Jono?
<spayne> Treenaks: no, why?
<Treenaks> spayne: no I mean his video
<colinl> Hi guys. I've got a few questions about the package updating process in Breezy and Dapper. First one is, are the packages versions in breezy frozen (security updates only), or is it possible to push new upstream version in breezy-updates?
<spayne> Treenaks: whivh video?
<spayne> colinl: first one, yes
<ajmitch> colinl: no new upstream versions in breezy-updates
<dholbach> colinl: no new upstream versions for ...
<dholbach> :)
<Treenaks> spayne: see #lugradio :)
<spayne> colinl: packages can be backported from Dapper if possible
<ajmitch> except where absolutely required for security fixes
<colinl> thanks
<ajmitch> eg firefox got new upstream versions in hoary-security because it was hard to hack out the security patches
<syouth> Can I update package db with breezy-backports in sources.list already?
<ajmitch> no
<syouth> aww
<colinl> so, it's still possible to get new upstream releases for Dapper? I read somewhere it was frozen too for a greater stability, but is it only for Main packages or does it also include Universe?
<ajmitch> colinl: currently we're getting new upstream versions synced automatically from debian, and it's a period of open development
<ajmitch> the upstream version freeze will be earlier though
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule has the general proposal
<colinl> ajmitch: ok, thanks.
<colinl> ajmitch: I'm interested in particular examples, too, namely sylpheed-claws-gtk2
<colinl> upstream releases are late in debian because our packager is sponsored. How should I go about building packages for it and pushing them to dapper's universe?
<dholbach> if there are very good reasons, we can push it through breezy-backports
<syouth> So when I can't sync against breezy-backports, then how's the best way for me to use new amaroK?
<dholbach> build dapper source on breezy
<colinl> dholbach: this was an answer to syouth ?
<ajmitch> once there's new amarok source in dapper :)
<ajmitch> colinl: it's possible for the debian packager to get the packages into dapper first, although it's not ideal
<ajmitch> colinl: how long does it take for them to get sponsored?
<colinl> ajmitch: I don't really know. He's already sponsored, but his sponsor's slow :)
<ajmitch> right
<colinl> We released 1.9.15 three weeks ago and debian doesn't have it yet :)
* ajmitch can understand that
<ajmitch> 3 weeks isn't long if someone is busy
<syouth> So when I change breezy in sources list to dapper I get like unstable/testing system?
<colinl> true, true :)
<ajmitch> syouth: you'd get to keep all the pieces
<syouth> Oh. I wish I could use packages.mask like in Gentoo :)
<colinl> syouth: I think you can use apt-pinning, but I don't really know how
<sivang> so guys, do we already have dapper deboostrap packages?
<ajmitch> syouth: you'd still have to wait for a package to get into dapper
<ajmitch> sivang: yes
<ajmitch> sivang: kamion uploaded a new debootstrap
<sivang> ajmitch: cool, is it available from the deboostrap howot on the wiki? (as it was with breezy)
<syouth> ajmitch: You mean when Dapper gets stable?
<colinl> syouth: http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html
<minghua> Hmm, in debian they say you get to keep BOTH pieces :-)
<ajmitch> minghua: here you get to keep them all
<ajmitch> sivang: it's available in dapper
<ajmitch> so you can get it from there if you want
<syouth> colinl: Thanks. Looks like something I need.
<colinl> ajmitch: thanks for the answers. I guess I'll rely on our debian packager and sponsor :)
<syouth> colinl: Yeah. I'll try that out and see, if it works in Ubuntu too.
<colinl> one day or another I'll bug you about my idea to replace the default Ubuntu mailer, which is Evolution, with Sylpheed-Claws. Although that sound unlikely to succeed :)
<Mortas> that will need a lot of convincing :)
<colinl> I guess so :)
<syouth> breezy is stable, then dapper is unstable? what is testing?
<colinl> syouth: I think there's no testing, but I may be wrong
<minghua> syouth: as far as I understand, ubuntu doesn't work like debian
<minghua> they develop in a branch and release that branch, so there is no need of testing
<ajmitch> minghua: correct, we don't have an intermediate branch to stabilise
<colinl> Mortas: in fact, what's the rationale with having Evolution as default mailer, apart the fact it's the GNOME mailer?
<Mortas> I think that would be the main rationale, but I can't help you with that :)
<colinl> ok :)
<ajmitch> hi slomo
<slomo> hi ajmitch :)
<colinl> Mortas: do you think I should try to bribe Mark Shuttleworth? :)
<ajmitch> slomo: uploaded the rest of universe yet? ;)
<slomo> ajmitch: how's your todo list? shrinking? ;)
<ajmitch> colinl: what incentive is there to switch?
<ajmitch> slomo: I wish :(
<slomo> ajmitch: no... now i must wait for xsp to get to main and tseng to upload monodoc... after that the rest will come
<ajmitch> slomo: I got a few items knocked off the list, still got a few more to go
<ajmitch> & only 1 day left before I fly
<colinl> ajmitch: It looks like Evolution doesn't fit everyone, judging on the forum posts. But then, I guess S-Claws wouldn't either. I'm only half-serious here
<slomo> ajmitch: hm... defer my packages to post-ubz time
<ajmitch> slomo: or during-UBZ time ;)
<slomo> ajmitch: yes... but that's low priority :P xsp for example is more important ;)
<colinl> ajmitch: the main thing is that Evolution is a full-blown PIM whereas S-Claws is just a mailer.
<colinl> ajmitch: some people seem to propose making the default mailer Thunderbird in Ubuntu
<colinl> ajmitch: I just wanted to propose mine :)
<syouth> colinl: seems logical when the default browser is FF
<syouth> :)
<Mortas> how do I get the new debootstrap with dapper stuff? do I need to switch my apt.sources to dapper or is that a bit suicidal?
* syouth uses TB too long now. TB seems to be faster for me at home where I have ~1Mbps ADSL
<slomo> colinl: oh please no ;) better get epiphany as default instead of firefox :P
<colinl> slomo: I don't want TB as a default either :)
<syouth> colinl: that how-to you gave me work. But I have no effect yet, because dapper has 1.3.1 of amaroK... I don't know any packages to test that have newer version in Dapper than Breezy.
<syouth> , but seems like it works.
<syouth> only this -ubuntu4 > -ubuntu5 ...
<slomo> colinl: why? what is better with TB?
<colinl> slomo: http://claws.sylpheed.org/ - although that's just my opinion :)
<ajmitch> prefs window on the screenshots page looks incredibly busy
<slomo> colinl: sylpheed is lightweight but a usuability nightmare imho ;)
<colinl> ajmitch: this is true
<colinl> slomo: yup, as we're reaching 2.0 i'm working on that, I don't know how far I can get in this regard
<ajmitch> colinl: the target audience for a default email client isn't going to be one who wants to tweak it until it shines
<syouth> ok.... must go and work some for food!
<syouth> bye!
<colinl> ajmitch: right
<colinl> ajmitch: I'm considering registering on openusability.org, I think only good things could come out of it
<colinl> (apart maybe, lots of work for me :))
<ajmitch> :)
<slomo> colinl: yes, that's definitly a good idea
<sivang> ajmitch: I need to probably dist-upgrade my breezy chroot for that, since I cannot have the package before installing it using dapper sources, no? :)
<ajmitch> sivang: just grab the package directly from the mirror & install it
<ajmitch> it has very few dependencies, none versioned
<slomo> bbl
<sivang> ajmitch: doh! right :)
<colinl> see you guys, and thanks
<bhuvan> tseng: ping
<bhuvan> conversion of packages from debian unstable -> breezy is automated or manual ?
<Mithrandir> breezy is closed and released.
<ajmitch> sid->dapper is automatic for packages we haven't touched
<bhuvan> ok
<ajmitch> anything we have made changes to in breezy, we have to merge for dapper
<bhuvan> oh, ok
<bhuvan> how many such packages are there (approx.) ? how many volunteers are involved (approx.) ?
<bhuvan> i meant, packages in which we made changes to in breezy
<ajmitch> > 1000 packages
<ajmitch> about 30 of us
<ajmitch> for universe
<slomo> ajmitch: do you know when MoM will start to fill bugreports?
<ajmitch> slomo: when it starts ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: sorry, I'm not the all-knowing oracle ;)
<slomo> ajmitch: but you're near at it ;)
<bhuvan> ajmitch: can you point me to a link which explains the process involved in packaging. i'm used to debian packaging. i wish to know the process involved in migration breezy->dapper
<ajmitch> if you're used to debian packaging, then it's really not much different
<bhuvan> ok
<ajmitch> the main things to keep in mind are versioning & setting the distribution to dapper
<bhuvan> oh, ok
<bhuvan> my current job is somehow related as well :)
<ajmitch> mine isn't
<bhuvan> url (or wiki page) which explains the status of ongoing migration process ?
<ajmitch> dapper just opened
<ajmitch> there's nothing to see yet
<ajmitch> for breezy we had a list of merge bugs in bugzilla
<ajmitch> filed automatically
<bhuvan> oh, ok. but, atleast as you said the list(>1000) where can i find the info ?
<ajmitch> that was a quick guess based on using grep-dctrl to look for versions with ubuntu in them ;)
<bhuvan> ok
<bhuvan> thankx. i'll go through the bugs mentioned in bugzilla, bugzilla.u.c
<ajmitch> and not all of those will need merged
<bhuvan> yeah, i understand
<ajmitch> ok, 1211 by looking at breezy's universe sources
<slomo> and the current to-merge list in bugzilla is leftover from breezy
<bhuvan> oh great! is there any other document other than the couple at wiki.u.c/MOTU* ?
<tseng> bhuvan: yes?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o tseng]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o bhuvan]  by tseng
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o tseng]  by tseng
<tseng> someone please fix the access list =/
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o siretart]  by ChanServ
<spayne> tseng: what's up with the access list?
<tseng> i am not saying
<spayne> oh well :)
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* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-ooo bhuvan dholbach siretart]  by dholbach
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<dholbach> that's better
<dholbach> we shouldn't need ops in here
<ajmitch> no it's not
<spayne> what's the problem?
<dholbach> bhuvan: what's your problem?
<dholbach> bhuvan: if you don't stop that script, i'll ban you from the channel
<dholbach> we only use ops for people who abuse the channel
<siretart> ack
<dholbach> bhuvan: if you don't play by our rules, you're banned
<dholbach> everybody in favor?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o dholbach]  by ChanServ
<spayne> dholbach: i think so :)
<tseng> i dont think he is present
<tseng> to be fair
<Mithrandir> he can ask to be let in when he returns, then
<tseng> works for me.
<Mortas> post a 'poke me if you don't like it' in the kick message
<dholbach> i'll send a private message
<Mortas> that usually gets people to reply
<sivang> dholbach: what did he do?
<dholbach> can somebody tell bhuvan how to teach centericq to deop?
<dholbach> sivang: he op'ed himself, even after 3 people de-oped him; and we just don't need ops in here
<bhuvan> seems my account creates some problem, i dont know what it is! i'll unsubscribe for now and see what was the issue
<slomo> ok... bbl :) bye bye
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> looks like it's about head crash time
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<centericq-user> hrm, this account doesn't op itself
<bhuvan> ?
<ajmitch> night all
<ajmitch> time to sleep
<dholbach> night ajmitch
<siretart> gn8 ajmitch
<schweeb> hiya dholbach
<dholbach> hey schweeb
<dholbach> man... long time no see
<dholbach> how are you?
<schweeb> been damn busy
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o dholbach]  by dholbach
<schweeb> work work work
<schweeb> which is, incidentally, why I'm up right now
<dholbach> but you're alright?
<schweeb> yep
<dholbach> cool, nice to hear that :)
<schweeb> I'll be helping a bit more this release
<dholbach> ROCK... so we can all take it slow :)
<schweeb> there much MOTU stuff to fix yet?
<dholbach> stuff to merge, lots of bugs, ... :)
<dholbach> the usual :)
<schweeb> cool
<schweeb> bbiaf, shower time
<dholbach> have fun
<schweeb> dholbach: get your thesis or whatever all done?
<dholbach> yeah, it's over... finally :)
<dholbach> thank you
<schweeb> all graduated and gainfully employed yet?
<dholbach> yes :)
<schweeb> congrats
<dholbach> yes, i'm quite happy
<schweeb> I'm still at Chrysler for EDS
<dholbach> and they seem to work you hard
<schweeb> hard enough
<schweeb> it's not really tough, but I'm proxied off from the world
<schweeb> so I don't get to IRC from work anymore :P
<schweeb> but yes, being on-call kinda sucks
* schweeb heads in to work
<schweeb> talk to y'all later
<dholbach> see you
<jsgotangco> hi all
<zakame> heya
<Nafallo> morning all :-)
<Nafallo> Hirion: thanx for gazpacho :-)
<zakame> Nafallo: evening here :)
<Hirion> Nafallo: no problem ;)
<Nafallo> zakame: midday here, but what has that to do with anything? ;-)
<zakame> Nafallo: hahaha
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<bhuvan> i debugged my centericq, it was reporting libgssl, libgcrypt errors. i upgraded them, now it doesnt report any error atleast at my end.
<bhuvan> wondering whether that was the cause
<bhuvan> sorry for the inconvenience caused
<Kyral> Mornin' all
<Kyral> So we finally got our own version of libdvbpsi4
<zakame> wb Kyral
<Kyral> Well looks like my school has blocked email from lists.ubuntu.com
<Kyral> which means I have to go route the email to my GMail account :P
<Treenaks> Kyral: are you subscribed to the autosync list? :)
<zakame> Kyral: awww
<Kyral> Treenaks: I am on DapperChanges, Ubuntu-Devel, and Universe-Bugs
<Kyral> Oh well, my GMail Account has been needing some love ;P
<Kyral> To the tune of 500 emails a day ;P
<Kyral> Well I saved my butt on Dapper-Changes but not on the others
<Kyral> I'll resubscribe later, now I have to eat and class
<Kyral> or not...
<Kyral> Hehe I forgot I hit the Global Apply :D
<Kyral> Anyway FOOD!
<siretart> hi folks
<siretart> does anyone happen to know about avidemux?
<zakame> hi sr
<siretart> hi Seveas, hi zakame
<Seveas> hi
<siretart> Seveas: I read you have some freenx packages?
<siretart> hi lamont!
<lamont> morning
<sivang> morning lamont
<Treenaks> hey lamont
<sivang> wtf?
<sivang> Automatix does not support ppc (powerpc) and AMD64 chipsets. If it works for u, well and good but if it doesnt, I am sorry but since Ubuntu itself does not fully support these architectures, I cannot do anything about it.
<sivang> taken from the forums..
<Treenaks> sivang: automatix is SCARY
<sivang> Treenaks: yes it is, do you know if it makes midi work on soft based midi ?
<Treenaks> Those forum guys should really discuss stuff with the "real" developers first
<Treenaks> sivang: yes
<Treenaks> sivang: just look in the timidity manpage ;)
<Treenaks> sivang: it has something to do with snd-virmidi and timidity's ALSA linkthrough
<lamont> Treenaks: forums are scary
<sivang> lamont: lol, true
<Treenaks> lamont: this one in particular
<sivang> we don't support ppc/amd64? that's news :-)
<zakame> haha
<Treenaks> sivang: only that weird hack doesn't
<Treenaks> sivang: it *shudder* turns on prelink as well
<sivang> Treenaks: in general, do we have soft midi working out of the box in breezy now? (especially for laptops that's important)
<sivang> Treenaks: from what i tested current to yesterday, we don't :)
<Nafallo> sivang: why is that important for laptops?
<sivang> Nafallo: well, not utterly important, but a very good nice to have :)
<ivoks> hi all
<sivang> hey ivoks
<ivoks> i guess - we are loosers that won't be in montreal :)
<Nafallo> sivang: but not on desktops? :-)
<zakame> hey ivoks
<Treenaks> sivang: we don't have it working anywhere out of the box
<Treenaks> sivang: but it's 1 package & 1 modprobe away
<sivang> Treenaks: sure, but what if you don't know that package and the modules name?
<sivang> :)
<Treenaks> sivang: timidity+freepats and snd-virmidi
<Treenaks> sivang: like I said
<sivang> Treenaks: everything is apt-get installable and you're done?
<Treenaks> sivang: it's in /usr/share/doc/timidity
<Treenaks> sivang: no, you have to run timidity as some kind of weird daemon
<sivang> Treenaks: do we expect simple MIDI users on a laptop to know to do that by their own?
<Treenaks> sivang: no, and not on desktops either
<sivang> I pushed ubuntu to some freinds of mine who're in the midi bussiness,
<Treenaks> sivang: but it interferes with normal audio out, as timidity will open the DSP device
<sivang> ah I see
<sivang> bullucks
<sivang> they want to be able to hear their created midi files and play it for people from their laptop
<Treenaks> (don't know about dmix)
<Treenaks> sivang: ah, you're a lugradio listener ;)
<sivang> Treenaks: what turned me in ? :)
<Treenaks> 15:49 <      sivang> bullucks
<Treenaks> (it's spelled 'bollocks', but hey)
<sivang> haha :)
<sivang> Treenaks: also, too much Lock Stock , Snatch etc etc..
<Treenaks> sivang: http://wiki.lugradio.org/index.php/LUGRadio_Syndrome
<koke> a semi-ot question. are there daylight savings in Canada?
<koke> here the clock changes on 29 or 30, and I'm flying on 29
<koke> I'm going to get (more) crazy
<jsgotangco> i believe so...
<sivang> Treenaks:  the most common word in your vocabulary is bollocks :)
<selinium> Hi all, I have been using linux for 8 months, all of them on Ubuntu. I was looking to become more involved, but dont know how. I am looking for a mentor to show me the ropes, any advice gratefully recieved.
<selinium> Hi Seveas
<selinium> :)
<Lathiat> hi selinium :)
<zakame> heya selinium
<Seveas> selinium, awesome
<Lathiat> selinium: check out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU for an introduction into the MOTU side of things
<Seveas> selinium, www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
* selinium fires up FireFox
<selinium> Also, I have to say, I hope I dont offend anyone, but i think the ubuntu-uk.org site is pretty poor in comparison to the likes of ubuntu-fr.org. Is there something I can do about that?
<zakame> selinium: of course, you ought to contact the people at ubuntu-uk about that
<jsgotangco> you might want to ask mdke
<selinium> jsgotangco, cheers :)
<jsgotangco> (he's the only uk guy i know besides from the other canonical people based there)
<selinium> thanks
<selinium> No being a Brit, I will need a cup of tea before reading about all things MOTU :)  back in 5
<selinium> s/No/Now/
<siretart> Seveas: around?
<Seveas> siretart, yes
<siretart> Seveas: can you give me an status update about freenx packages?
<Seveas> siretart, i'm currently testing the latest kanotix packages
<Seveas> what's in my repo now are the second-to-latest and Just Work on breezy
<siretart> Seveas: Are they collaborating with upstream?
<Seveas> I see the kanotix guy on the upstream ML
<siretart> Seveas: I attended a meeting of a debian freenx team, I think Mithrandir was there too. It seems that upstream was very angry about the packages, because they did not the path layout how upstream was using
<Seveas> which upstream? freenx or nomachine?
<siretart> nomachine, I think
<siretart> I'm asking you ;)
<siretart> Seveas: are your package ready for inclusion into dapper?
<Seveas> well, nomachine uses stupid paths
<Seveas> old X-style everything in /usr/NX/
<Seveas> they're not ready yet
<Seveas> definitely not
<siretart> Seveas: well, they use that "old X-style" for a reason!
<Seveas> btw: the client won't even work on breezy, I hexedited the client to correct the path to xauth
<siretart> pff
<siretart> okay, I see
<siretart> Seveas: get upstream to use the modular xorg 7.0 build system ;)
<Seveas> :)
<HiddenWolf> when is xorg 7 due?
<Seveas> the client is non-free btw
<Seveas> so multiverse at best for that one if the license permits it
<siretart> HiddenWolf: it is already released, I believe
<Seveas> RC1
<HiddenWolf> siretart, just the beta, afaik
<Seveas> not final :)
<Mirno> Hello, I say
<zakame> hi Mirno
<Mirno> zakame: congrats for yersterday
<siretart> hi Mirno! :)
<siretart> Mirno: #plf is quite busy, shall we create #ubuntu-media?
<zakame> Mirno: many thanks :D
<Mirno> siretart: please join #freecontrib
<siretart> zakame: you are member now? contrats from my side, too!
<zakame> siretart: yes, just this morning PHT :D many thanks! :)
<siretart> zakame: :)
<HiddenWolf> ah, xorg will be final dec 7th
<zakame> I'm looking at the lighttpd upload at REVU, it has two diffs, one gzipped...
<Lathiat> the diff.gz woudl be the package diff.gz to the package orig.tar.gz
<Lathiat> debian packages are distributed as a .dsc, a .orig.tar.gz and a .digg.gz (in most cases)
<zakame> yes, but two .diffs? and the .diff file itself is 0 bytes
<Lathiat> that diff might be a diff to the last package or something
<Lathiat> i dunno
<Lathiat> url?
<siretart> slomo_: around?
<zakame> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=379
<zakame> lintian out-of-date, even
<Lathiat> oh i see
<Lathiat> its just the ungzipped diff
<Lathiat> the diff i s0bytes
<Lathiat> they messed up the upload
<zakame> even the .dsc is wrong, it's from upstream
<Lathiat> so the uplaod is totally b0rked
<zakame> the source itself contains ./debian
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> its a native package
<Lathiat> or something
<Lathiat> anyway
<Lathiat> its b0rked
<Lathiat> and someone already commented
<Lathiat> so we wait for them to unb0rk it
<zakame> no, not native, since it's not from Debian, otherwise there's no need for a .diff.gz
<Lathiat> zakame: i mean
<Lathiat> it was uploaded as one
<Lathiat> but its not supposed to be
<Lathiat> i think its just f**ked
<Lathiat> it shouldnt even have the diff.gz there if it is
<zakame> indeed
<selinium> Lots to read! :)
<selinium> Is there a sandbox for newbie motu's to start packaging?
<selinium> Sorry motu wannbe's :)
<tseng> yes, your own box with pbuilder
<tseng> PbuilderHowto on the wiki
<selinium> tseng: cheers
<keyes> hello
<zakame> hey keyes
<siretart> zakame: tiber is running breezy, so lintian is out of date, yes
<zakame> siretart: ah
<jsgotangco> PbuilderHowto is awesome
<zakame> jsgotangco: indeed, chroot in a chroot :)
* siretart just updated it
<siretart> please report problems with the howto, I think Mirno is just on it ;)
<slomo_> siretart: pong
<siretart> slomo_: please join #freecontrib
<pef> arg, the CC meeting was yesterday, I thought it was november 1st :/
<robitaille> there is a ical feed of these meetings on the Fridge
<pef> robitaille: fridge.ubuntu.com ?
<robitaille> yes.
<robitaille> the ical feed is http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical
<pef> robitaille: thank you
<pef> robitaille: does the way I "corrected" this bug correct ? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kzenexplorer/+bug/3576/
<robitaille> pef, I'm actually not a motu, or a developper, so I'm not the best person to ask :)
<pef> ok :)
* keyes is away: WoooWW
<\sh> evening
<siretart> hi \sh
<\sh> re siretart
<\sh> bad day....but actually i have holiday
<Nafallo> \sh: are you in .ca yet? :-)
<\sh> no
<\sh> saturday
<\sh> i just came from work
<Nafallo> ah :-)
<\sh> i gow now and have a shower and after that I have to sleep a bit...tired like hell
<LaserJock> arrrgghhh, I HATE goobox and soundjuicer. Why oh why can't cddb work!
<LaserJock> sorry for the rant, I just had to let it out ;-)
<slomo> LaserJock: good question... works for me ;) maybe your cd isn't there?
<Nafallo> LaserJock: what slomo said :-)
<LaserJock> grip and gnome-cd work fine
<Nafallo> WFM
<Nafallo> atleast sj and banshee :-)
<LaserJock> sound juicer just sits there and goobox just had Audio CD
<LaserJock> I really like goobox except for this one thing. I guess I will just have to use grip
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I got the distcc enabled pbuilder up and running, but it seems distcc is broken
<Nafallo> distcc is broken?
<Amaranth> dholbach: yay, you applied my patch to pyxdg!
<Yagisan> Nafallo: nothing compiles with distcc used :(
<Yagisan> Nafallo: remove distcc and perfect compile
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> I would say that's not exactly "up and running" then ;-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I tested each I my boxes individually, they can all build same apps no worries
<Yagisan> Nafallo: heh - I didn't say working,
<Nafallo> "up and running" means "working" in my world ;-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: would you mind testing my pbuilderrc over your network
<Yagisan> Nafallo: first is up, then running, and finally working :)
<Nafallo> I only got one machine that is able to build things :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: bmonty also wanted it right ?
<Nafallo> my server will not build amd64-things I'm already sure of ;-), and it already has enough load :-)
<Nafallo> yepp
<Nafallo> I just wanted a working thing to go play with PbuilderHowto ;-)
<Yagisan> bmonty - you up ?
<Yagisan> Nafallo: actually, I did it for my i386 pbuilder
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I send it to you anyway, so you can see how it should look, if distcc worked.
<Nafallo> hehe, oki :-)
* zyga thinks that a PbuilderTerminalServer would be cool ;-)
* zyga is stockpiling 10 boxes for a few weeks
* Yagisan hopes he sent the right pbuilderrc
<Yagisan> Nafallo: need to uncomment the 3 lines at the bottom re distcc
<zyga> guys, is there any way to force pbuilder to use dual core setup?
<Yagisan> zyga: is that an offer to test it for me :)
<zyga> Yagisan: you've got something like that READY?
<Yagisan> zyga: add export MAKE="/usr/bin/make -j5" to the end of your pbuilderrc
<koke> hey, this one looks nice http://www.realistanew.com/projects/alacarte/
<zyga> Yagisan: right
<zyga> Yagisan: isn't 5 too big? I though about 3
<Amaranth> koke: that's already in breezy
<Yagisan> zyga: adjust the value after -j to what floats your boat
<Amaranth> koke: well, 0.7.5 is
<Yagisan> zyga: I picked 5 because it was supposed to use distcc ...
<koke> Amaranth: as "alacarte" ??
<Amaranth> koke: as smeg
<Nafallo> -j 200 :-)
<zyga> koke: nice indeed
<koke> Amaranth: so it's the same one?? xDD
<zyga> koke: first editor that looks sane on screenshots
<Amaranth> koke: the deb i made supplies, conflicts, and replaces smeg so ubuntu-desktop doesn't cry, i think i might have gone overboard
<Amaranth> koke: yep, just a new version
<Amaranth> although it's so much better it's hard to tell :)
* zyga checks the deb
<Yagisan> zyga: I can send you a pbuilderrc that in theory runs great with distcc, and turns your network into a huge compile farm
<Amaranth> lintian and linda are both happy with the .changes, .dsc, and .deb file (except for saying dapper is invalid) so i think i'm good there :)
<Amaranth> final 0.8 release is tomorrow, i'll see if seb can upload it for me then
<zyga> Yagisan: I've got no network backend for those boxes yet.. I need to find a switch and a bunch of network cables
<zyga> Yagisan: just send it anyway, I'll try to set it up on a two box setup meanwhile
<Nafallo> Amaranth: dist-upgrade and it will not say dapper is a bad choice of a dist ;-)
<Amaranth> Nafallo: already done, i love upgrades :)
<Amaranth> Nafallo: lintian still complains
<zyga> koke: is there any way to remove whole menus in any editor?
<zyga> I'd love to get rid of the 'Debian' menu
<Amaranth> zyga: not remove, just hide
<koke> zyga: no idea, I don't edit menus :)
<zyga> Amaranth: hide is fine
<Amaranth> zyga: open smeg, click applications, then in the right listview uncheck debian
<Amaranth> close it and look at your menu
<Amaranth> 0.8 does instant apply, btw :)
<Nafallo> Amaranth: oh? lintian 1.23.13ubuntu1?
* zyga needs smeg back then
<Amaranth> 1.23.10ubuntu1
<Amaranth> zyga: alacarte can do it too
<Amaranth> alacarte == smeg
<zyga> hmm
<Nafallo> Amaranth: that's why then ;-)
<zyga> Amaranth: right clicking didn't really work in alacarte
* Yagisan prepares to leave for birthday celebrations :)
<Amaranth> zyga: how do you mean?
<zyga> ahhh
<Amaranth> Yagisan: don't get too drunk
* zyga understands how that works now
<Nafallo> Yagisan: say hello from me :-)
<zyga> arrgh usability
* Yagisan birthday :)
<Amaranth> zyga: i'm in string freeze, otherwise i'd made "Delete" change to "Hide/Unhide" for things you can't delete
<zyga> there is no way to unchech debian in the tree view
<zyga> Yagisan: 100 years to you :-)
<zyga> Amaranth: upstream?
<Amaranth> zyga: i am upstream
<zyga> Amaranth: cool - no more debian
<Yagisan> Amaranth: I can't get drunk - I've got to look after bub
* Yagisan is 24 today
<Amaranth> zyga: no more debian?
<Nafallo> Yagisan: ah, congrats :-). or something :-).
<zyga> Amaranth: the debian menu is filled with clutter
<zyga> Amaranth: is there any way you could provide checkbox in the tree on the left?
<zyga> that would make it much easier IMHO
<Amaranth> zyga: it looks ugly as sin
<Amaranth> zyga: and it duplicates options in two places
<Amaranth> zyga: the Delete to Hide/Unhide thing should help a lot, i think
<zyga> what is the reason for both views by the way?
<Amaranth> well, mostly because it's easier to work with
<Amaranth> 0.5 had one huge list
<zyga> Amaranth: where is delete?
<Amaranth> not only was the code harder to write, it was harder to scroll around
<Amaranth> zyga: edit menu or right click, but you can't delete something you didn't make
<zyga> Amaranth: arghh
<zyga> Amaranth: okay :-)
<Amaranth> zyga: thus the change to hide/unhide i'm planning for the next release
<zyga> Amaranth: so it's not only a string change
<zyga> it's functionality change, right?
<zyga> Amaranth: curious
<zyga> Amaranth: how do you look up icons
<zyga> Amaranth: is there any .desktop reading library/
<zyga> in python?
<Amaranth> zyga: pyxdg
<Amaranth> zyga: implements most of the fd.o specs all in one library
<Amaranth> it has to, since the menu spec uses most of them
<zyga> Amaranth: thanks
<zyga> Amaranth: that brings an idea back
<JanC> Amaranth: do you still have to dual boot?  (I read about that some time ago?)
<Amaranth> JanC: well right now i'm internet only at school again for awhile
<Amaranth> but with vmware player and their browser appliance i'm good for ubuntu access here
<JanC> ah, because you could try coLinux
<siretart> okay, chroots updated,
<Amaranth> does ubuntu have coLinux support? i thought you need to modify your kernel
<JanC> http://www.willmer.com/kb/2005/07/colinux-for-ubuntu/
<siretart> now lets go for something to eat
<Amaranth> at home i dual-boot and my net access is windows only, so this would help :)
<JanC> I didn't test, but the Rachel from that blog seems to have succeeded doing that  :)
<Amaranth> hrm, i dunno if i want to try running my breezy install with the dualboot setup like they show
<Amaranth> i'm afraid it'll break something and i'll lose universe
<JanC> well, just wanted to point you to it as an option
<Amaranth> i guess if it does break something i can always reinstall and download glade manually though, i guess
<Amaranth> that would be awesome though, internet access from ubuntu at home again
<Amaranth> but i hopefully start a nice paying job on friday, so i may not need to worry about dialup
<JanC> ah, we'll all help hoping  :-)
<JanC> no affordable DSL or cable there?
<Amaranth> if i get the job i'm getting cable
<Amaranth> i don't pay for the dialup i'm on now though, so i have no say over it (i'd get $8/month local straight dialup, not an AOL knockoff)
<JanC> I see...
<JanC> dialup is way too expensive here, so everybody uses DSL or cable  :)
<tseng> tigger^: woo
<tigger^> tseng: hi
<slomo> hi tseng :)
<tseng> hi slomo
<tseng> meet tigger, he is a clueful hacker on various small projects
<tigger^> hi hi
<slomo> what projects? :)
<tigger^> can't tell
<tigger^> its sekrit!
<tigger^> :P
<tigger^> heh
<tigger^> tenshi, pretrace
<tseng> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/infrastructure/tenshi/
<tseng> this is my favorite
* tigger^ helps out with openssh-lpk
<tseng> i used to use it
<tigger^> working on formatcheck module for valgrind
<tigger^> lots of small things
<tigger^> prelude
<tigger^> (sometimes)
<tseng> argl, prelude
<slomo> hehe :)
<tseng> "cant be arsed"
<tigger^> hah
<tigger^> bad tseng :P
<tseng> all my stuff is behind several firewalls
<tigger^> that's ok then
* tigger^ coughs
<tigger^> ;)
<tseng> what happens outside that is not my area of concern
<tseng> we have a "security group" for that
<tigger^> ah ok
<slomo> tseng: btw, when do you sleep? you're always talking here when i'm here too ;)
<tigger^> let you off then
<tseng> slomo: sleep?
<zyga> Amaranth: ping
* Lathiat grins at tseng     
<Amaranth> zyga: pong
<zyga> Amaranth: pyxdg only provides a relative icon name
<zyga> Amaranth: could you tell me how do you look up the final path?
<Amaranth> yes, but pyxdg also has a module for the fd.o icon theme spec
<Amaranth> and alcarte has a bit of code to find out the GNOME and/or KDE theme is in use so i can use that
<zyga> so IconTheme.py
<zyga> thanks
<Amaranth> check out src/Alacarte/PyXDGIconTheme.py
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> check out src/Alacarte/PyXDGIconHandler.py
<zyga> checking
<zyga> I want to add icon variants
<zyga> but it's way more difficult in this design
<zyga> icon variants meaning that I can provide alternatives in the desktop file
<zyga> now I'm not sure where to put this
<zyga> ideally this would be hidden in DesktopEntry stuff
<zyga> and thus easily available to all applications
<zyga> but since it knows nothing about icon themes it's not possible
<zyga> I don't want to push this change all the way into the app layer
<Amaranth> you mean make the Icon key a list of strings instead of just a string?
<Amaranth> that's not backward compatible with older implementations
<Amaranth> zyga: ^
<zyga> Amaranth: yes
<zyga> Amaranth: I want to have something like
<zyga> music-player:gnome-music-player:xmms-music-player
<Amaranth> in order to make that change you need to modify the DesktopEntry class, the IconTheme class, and every app that uses pyxdg
<zyga> (icon names are fake ;-)
<zyga> Amaranth: I know and I think that sucks :-)
<Amaranth> it would be Icon=music-player;gnome-music-player;xmms-music-player;
<Amaranth> zyga: There is no alternative.
<zyga> too bad there is no DesktopEntry + IconTheme class
<Amaranth> zyga: That's why this is called "not backward compatible"
<zyga> one that can give final URL to the icon
<Amaranth> zyga: what about xfce, kde, gnome, and everyone else who uses the spec?
<Amaranth> you'd be better off adding a new key and hacking IconTheme to use it if what it has in Icon doesn't exist
<zyga> Amaranth: :-)
<Amaranth> IconList or something
<zyga> Amaranth: this was propsed some time ago
<zyga> Amaranth: but the discussion suddenly stopped
<Amaranth> yeah, and they said the same thing i'm saying :)
<zyga> Amaranth: some people seen no need, some have seen the need
<Amaranth> you need a new key, there is no other way to do it without breaking things
<Amaranth> for now i'd call the key X-IconList (so it's compliant with the desktop entry spec) and make ubuntu use it
<Amaranth> then work on getting it into the spec
<siretart> boah, why is wiki.ubuntu.com that dogslow :(
<HiddenWolf> siretart, because it's grown out of his skin, very much
<zyga> Amaranth: no acutally
<zyga> Amaranth: first of all I'm not really going to get through with this
<zyga> Amaranth: what would be really neded is specs change and gradual upstream adaptation
<Amaranth> zyga: but using pyxdg at least as an example implementation will help your case
<siretart> hi _Tonio_
<_Tonio_> hi siretart
<zyga> Amaranth: I'm too depressed to hack today
<siretart> _Tonio_: I'm just reviewing tellico ;)
<_Tonio_> siretart: I'm embarassed with a package....
<siretart> _Tonio_: it looks fine, but could you please make another upload with target 'dapper'? thanks
<_Tonio_> siretart: what would you do with a package that doesn't have any homepage and whose developper is unknown ?
<siretart> I wouldn't package it, because of unclear status
<_Tonio_> siretart: yes.... I have about 25 uploads to perform ;)
<siretart> oh
<_Tonio_> siretart: and if this unclear package is required by a marvellous application ?? ^_^
<_Tonio_> frustrating ;)
<_Tonio_> siretart: is the kdelibs4-dev problem resolved for dapper ? because if it is not I may have to wait for upload with dapper target
<siretart> _Tonio_: what is the kdelibs4-dev problem?
<_Tonio_> siretart: dunno, but I saw Riddell talking about that yeserday evening on #kubuntu-devel
<_Tonio_> siretart: anyway, if you have succedded compiling with a dapper pbuilder, I'll perform the upload immediatly
<siretart> Riddell: if you are around, could you please elaborate on the "kdelibs4-dev" problem?
<slomo> lol... i found a funny bug in evolution ;) next to the help menu there is an empty menu without a label =)
<_Tonio_> siretart: according to what I remember, if was a dependancy issue, causing kde applications to failed compiling...
<zyga> slomo: heh, true
<tigger^> anyone know where dh_make is from?
<Amaranth> dh-make
<zyga> slomo: maybe it's a plugin leftover?
<tigger^> Amaranth: hmm. thought I had that
<tigger^> Amaranth: ok, ta
<slomo> zyga: no idea... but it doesn't hurt ;)
<_Tonio_> hum.......... W: tellico source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 1.0-0ubuntu1
<_Tonio_> anyone know how to correct this ?
<_Tonio_> it is not the first time that I can see this kind or error and I've never been able to understand it ;)
<slomo> make you the maintainer
<slomo> (compare the maintainer field and the name/email in control/changelog)
<_Tonio_> hum....... okay
<slomo> and this package is by you, right?
<_Tonio_> yep
<slomo> when you only did a change to it ignore the warning ;)
<_Tonio_> but I did a simple synthax error ;)
<_Tonio_> thanks for the info slomo
<siretart> _Tonio_: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/tellico-0509190115/tellico_1.0-0ubuntu1.buildlog
<tigger^> Amaranth: ok, I'm missing something here. I have dh-make package installed, but there is no dh_make command I can see, and no dh_make man page..
<herve> hello
<siretart> _Tonio_: this is the buildlog of tellico in dapper
<siretart> hi herve
<slomo> _Tonio_: np :)
<siretart> _Tonio_: I'd say build-depend on kdelibs4-dev
<_Tonio_> siretart: so the problem is apparently resolved, good news, I will start the uploads ;)
<testuser> hi ... just want to say libaqbanking-plugins-libgwenhywfar17c2 isn't available in the repository, but needed from for example libaqhbci
<siretart> testuser: uuuh, which package build that binary?
<testuser> sorry, what ?
<testuser> i wanted to install aqbanking with hbci support
<tigger^> Amaranth: nm, user error
<testuser> try to install libaqhbci-plugin-libaqbanking0 .. it will break
<Amaranth> yay, new lintian
<Amaranth> it was stuck in dist-upgrade land
<Amaranth> so now alacarte gets no errors in lintian or linda
<_Tonio_> siretart: just uploading tellico with dapper target.... I also added a little patch for the .desktop file
<siretart> _Tonio_: sounds great! :)
<_Tonio_> siretart: just that I didn't modified the eps to kdelibs4-dev
<_Tonio_> can you remove so that I can upload again ?
<_Tonio_> or maybe I just have to wait a fex minutes
<_Tonio_> s/fex/few
<siretart> just a moment
<_Tonio_> siretart: okay I'll do in 10 minutes, time to update my pbuilder and build locally. then I'll let you know for revuing
<siretart> _Tonio_: you may upload, incoming queue is clear
<_Tonio_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<_Tonio_>   kdelibs4-dev: Depends: libssl-dev but it is not going to be installed
<_Tonio_> here it is...... it works with kdelibs-dev but not kdelibs4-dev.....
<siretart> strange
<siretart> aah, this is because of broken libssl-dev
<siretart> I think you have to wait until openssl is fixed
<testuser> mh..is there some hope that libaqhbci-plugin-libaqbanking0 will be fixed in near future ? do i have to write the maintainer from this package ?
<_Tonio_> siretart: this is the reason I didn't want to upload immediatly for dapper ;)
<ajmitch> morning all
<siretart> testuser: can you please file a malone bug about this?
<siretart> morning ajmitch!
<siretart> ajmitch: you don't need much sleep, do you? ;)
<testuser> siretart: sure, can you tell me how to do that ?
<ajmitch> siretart: I said good night about 8 hours ago :)
<siretart> testuser: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/+package
<siretart> ajmitch: ah, now I see in the backlog. that was about 1pm for me ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: now it is 21:46 ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: it was barely enough :)
<siretart> :)
<siretart> perhaps we should purge all of revu
<siretart> too much stuff there. much old ones, espc.
<herve> not mine :-(
<ajmitch> siretart: go through them all in a UBZ session :)
<siretart> ajmitch: ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: when do you head to UBZ?
<siretart> ajmitch: on saturday. you?
<ajmitch> in ~24 hours
<siretart> :)
<siretart> hi Fuddl ;)
<sivang> ajmitch: you also arrive on 29th sat?
* spayne feels left out
<ajmitch> sivang: yes
<sivang> ajmitch: but being in .nz makes the trip how much longer? :)
<ajmitch> lots
<ajmitch> since I have to cross the date line :)
<ajmitch> in total it's over a day's travel time
<sivang> oh man
<sivang> I don't have to cross it, and still it's going to be around 12hr
* keyes is back (gone 03:38:33)
<Mithrandir> keyes: please turn off public away.  It's just noise.
<keyes> ok
<ajmitch> sivang: > 12 hours for me to just reach the US
<ajmitch> excluding all the airport waiting time
<sivang> ajmitch: wow dude, I can just wish you easy flight :)
<ajmitch> sivang: part of the price of living in NZ :)
<sivang> at least you get amazing views,
<sivang> and landscape
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> anyway, must get ready for work
* ajmitch might be back by lunchtime or so
<ajmitch> given the amount of stuff I have to sort out by tomorrow morning
<Amaranth> can you put python-xdg (> 0.15, << 0.16) in a Depends or does that need to be two seperate entries?
<Amaranth> err, >= 0.15
<Amaranth> or would == 0.15 handle all 0.15-XubuntuX versions?
<herve> I have a preference for the >= 0.15, << 0.16
<Amaranth> but that does work?
<dholbach> hey herve
<herve> yo Daniel!
<dholbach> ow are you?
<Amaranth> dholbach: thanks for patching pyxdg for me
<herve> Amaranth, yes, I don't try to trick you :-)
<dholbach> Amaranth: de rien
<herve> dholbach, exhausted!
<dholbach> herve: how comes?
<dholbach> herve: too much food at your parents place?
<dholbach> :)
<herve> no (well yes) but I need more vacation!
<herve> so I go trekking in the Alps this weekend
<dholbach> oh nice
<slomo> Amaranth: == 0.15 is a real equals ;) only 0.15 will match, not 0.15-XubuntuY
<dholbach> good night guys
<slomo> gn8 dholbach :)
<dholbach> night sebastian
<keyes> Is DMA actived by default with Breezy?
<Amaranth> no
<herve> even when known to be supported?
<herve> night dholbach
<dholbach> night herv
<ajmitch> hm
<schweeb> omg hi all
<ajmitch> omg hi schweeb!!
<schweeb> still rebuilding my server :(
<herve> good night
<Amaranth> wtf
<Amaranth> lintian says W: alacarte: old-fsf-address-in-copyright-file
<Amaranth> but /usr/share/common-licenses/LGPL-2 has the exact same address i have
<ajmitch> look at /usr/share/common-licenses/LGPL-2.1
<Amaranth> they need to stop changing their address
<PlanarPlatypus> does anyone in here know if it is possible to install eclipse plugins if one has installed eclipse from the universe repository?
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: yes it is
<Amaranth> linda tells me 'File /home/travis/Projects/alacarte_0.8-0ubuntu1.dsc failed to process: Level 2 unpacking failed: Data "python-xdg (>= 0.15" doesn't match
<Amaranth> '
<ajmitch> Amaranth: why, because they've changed it once?
<Amaranth> ajmitch: twice
<ajmitch> Amaranth: and that's bad & mean to you? :P
<spayne> any MOTUs here?
<Amaranth> ajmitch: i've gotten that message twice now, once i had to change from what a gnome cvs project had to lgpl-2, now new lintian wants me to change to lgpl-2.1
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, fair enough, it keeps breaking for me on texlipse and pydev.  Both give an error of "no such file or directory".  Can you think of anything I might be missing?
<ajmitch> spayne: no, we all decided to abandon the project
<Amaranth> i don't understand, my dsc file doesn't mention python-xdg at all
<spayne> ajmitch: what is up with you man?
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: I don't know I'm afraid
<spayne> ajmitch: everything i saw, you throw back at me
<spayne> ajmitch: what have i done  to you?
<ajmitch> spayne: no, that's quite wrong
<spayne> ajmitch: it is quite offending some times
<ajmitch> with what statements?
<Amaranth> oops, my brackets where backwards
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, fair enough.  Do you know any good places to ask for more help on it?
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: Afraid not, not actually an ubuntu user :)
<PlanarPlatypus> lol
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, ooc how do you know it is possible then?
<spayne> ajmitch: "no, we all decided to abandon the project"
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: I'm making assumptions based on the fact I can't see a single reason it wouldn't be :)
<PlanarPlatypus> lol
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: bearing in mind it works everywhere else I've tried :)
<ajmitch> spayne: if you can't see that as a joke..
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: if eclipse is installed ok, plugins should work
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, it works everywhere else for me too, except when I install it from apt
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: ah. mebbe tis broke then :/
<tigger^> dunno
<tigger^> I can't even get the OS installed atm :)
<spayne> ajmitch: if it just a joke, fine
<tigger^> "Installation of base system has failed. Please see /target/var/log/boostrap.log", which doesn't exist
<tigger^> yay
<tigger^> :P
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, ah, fair enough.  ooc what hardware is this on?
<spayne> ajmitch: let's put that behind us :)
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: athlon
<ajmitch> spayne: and your comments about big mono breakage earlier appeared to be misinformed, so I corrected them. We didn't really have many problems in breezy
<ajmitch> spayne: the main fun we had with mono was getting about 10 uploads done while we were at UDU, for amd64 love
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, where does it fail?
<spayne> ajmitch: that's fine - i'm often wrong and wiling to be corrected
<spayne> ajmitch: Xorg were the main problems in Breezy tbh
<Amaranth> ajmitch: canada broadband doesn't have a rate limit on it so i think you'll be better there
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, assuming you know more than on "installing the base system" :-)
<Amaranth> at least i don't think it does...
<ajmitch> spayne: if I seem a little blunt, that's a failing of mine. but I'm not trying to offend
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: It does the partioning stuff, and then starts fetching/verifying/resolving stuff
<Amaranth> no canadian folks i know ever complain about it
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: and fails during that
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: but as for which package, I'm afraid I don't know
<Amaranth> err, not rate
<ajmitch> Amaranth: 'broadband' here & in Australia is a bit of a problem :)
<Amaranth> bandwidth
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, fair enough.  I assume you have checked that the hardware is all working?
<tigger^> Is there a media test option?
<Amaranth> ajmitch: crappy stuff, caps and all
<ajmitch> Amaranth: data allocation, you mean :)
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: I'm not 100% sure it is no :)
<PlanarPlatypus> lol
<tigger^> Not used it for a few months
<ajmitch> after which the data rate is restricted
<Amaranth> E: alacarte: python-script-but-no-python-dep ./usr/bin/alacarte
* Amaranth STABS LINTIAN IN THE THROAT WITH A SPOON
<ajmitch> we so often misuse the term 'bandwidth' :)
<ajmitch> haha
<Amaranth> i tried python (>= 2.4) and python2.4
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: any ideas?
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: is there a media test thing?
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, I don't actully know but it wouldn't suprise me if there was
<tigger^> I've installed from the iso I used to burn this CD inside vmware
<tigger^> So, the file was ok
<tigger^> maybe misburned
<PlanarPlatypus> Did it fail once and then you gave up or did you try more than once
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: ah, there is a check
<Amaranth> appearently when you use #!/usr/bin/env python you can never get a Depends that makes lintian stfu?
* tigger^ tries it
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: tried twice, failed in "roughly the same place"
<Amaranth> ajmitch: you're the python package master here, right? got any tips?
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, ah, not randomness then
<ajmitch> *cough*
<ajmitch> master is a very loose term there
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: well, maybe. If it's a dodgy disk controller fex
<Amaranth> ajmitch: you lead the team, don't you?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: I package python stuff regularly
<Amaranth> any idea on what to put in my Depends to make lintian stop complaining?
<Amaranth> breezy lintian didn't do this, only dapper
<ajmitch> right
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: disk is broke :)
* tigger^ burns a new one at a slower speed
<ajmitch> and there's a new lintian there, so blame dholbach?
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, heh, it is often something like that
<Amaranth> ajmitch: I like that idea. :)
* sivang notices the difference in traffic between here and u-d :)
<Amaranth> nice, lintian is complaining about a nonexistant issue and linda is flat out breaking down while trying to check
<ajmitch> u-d has traffic?
<spayne> sivang: i noticed that too
<spayne> night all
<ajmitch> good night
<Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/alacarte/releases/0.8/ :D
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-01
<PlanarPlatypus> does anyone know where I would file a bug against the eclipse packages?  bugzilla.ubuntu.com is being obtuse at me
<HiddenWolf> malone
<HiddenWolf> launchpad.net/malone/
<PlanarPlatypus> HiddenWolf, thanks
<HiddenWolf> PlanarPlatypus, np
<chillywilly> lalallaa
<HiddenWolf> http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/a_bad_taste_in_the_mouth_detailed_ubuntu_patch_review-2005-10-13-03-57.html
<HiddenWolf> *ouch*
<Riddell> siretart, _Tonio_: the kdelibs4-dev problem is that some far off dependency didnt want to install, no idea if it's been solved
<Kyral> sup people :D
<ajmitch> discussing ubuntu problems with debian people
<Kyral> Ummm
<Kyral> Leave me outta it :D
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> a lot of it is how ubuntu people (especially MOTUs) don't do much to work with debian
<Kyral> Hey I have an escuse, I never used Debian ;P
<ajmitch> not much of an excuse
* Kyral shrugs
<HiddenWolf> ajmitch, read that link I posted. It's painful. :(
<ajmitch> considering how 99% of what we do is changing debian packages :)
<Kyral> I don't really care either way
<HiddenWolf> Kyral, you should
<ajmitch> HiddenWolf: I've seen it on planet debian
<Kyral> "Humanity Towards Others" remember?
<HiddenWolf> Kyral, pissing off debian is not a good plan.
<HiddenWolf> Kyral, working together saves time and effort, keeping them happy keeps us happy too
<ajmitch> we have enough problems with debian already
* Kyral shrugs
<ajmitch> I'm putting together a wiki page about this
<HiddenWolf> ajmitch, and we should work to resolve those
<ajmitch> about what MOTUs should do
<Kyral> HiddenWolf, I don't know who you are, but honestly I just like to be left alone to do my work
<Kyral> Politics of any kind piss me off ;P
<ajmitch> it's not politics, it's common sense
* Kyral holds up his hand
<ajmitch> instead of us making a nice wide split with debian
<_Tonio_> Riddell: thanks for the info.
<Kyral> Please don't involve me in this
<HiddenWolf> Kyral, it's not politics. if you can work together with debian, they will do the work for you, so you don't have to work
<_Tonio_> Riddell: anyway, ther's no emergency, we can wait before upload ;)
<ajmitch> Kyral: it's something to deal with as a MOTU :)
<Kyral> Yah yah
<Riddell> _Tonio_: what's to upload?
<HiddenWolf> ajmitch, suggestion, get some good docs up in coordination with those disgruntled debian guys, and/or ask their input.
<Kyral> look at my line above
<_Tonio_> Riddell: packages to revu
<Kyral> "Humanity Towards Others"
<ajmitch> HiddenWolf: I am a disgruntled debian guy ;)
<Kyral> When we signed the Code Of Conduct for Ubuntu, we swore to that motto, no?
* tigger^ plans to cheat and only maintain things for which he is upstream anyway
<ajmitch> Kyral: others includes debian
<Kyral> Thats my point
<Kyral> I'll play nice with Debian
<ajmitch> good
<Kyral> My point is why is there a fight about it?
<ajmitch> it's not a fight
<ajmitch> it's a fair list of complaints
<Kyral> discussion, whatever
<ajmitch> we can disagree without breaking the code of conduct
<HWolf> Kyral, because we want to stay as close as possible to debian, to avoid duplication of work, and increase maintainability
<ajmitch> "humanity towards others" doesn't mean a mushy lovey tolerance where anything goes
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> As I said, I stay out of politics
<HWolf> Kyral, it's not politics, it's a technical issue
<Kyral> Which I know nothing about
<Kyral> So again I shall stay out of it ;P
* ajmitch thinks it should be made part of the MOTU approval process :)
<ajmitch> most people will disagree with me of course
<Kyral> what should?
<tigger^> ajmitch: depends what the idea is :)
<HWolf> I wouldn't, but I'm not a motu. :)
<tigger^> ajmitch: I have no plans to feed debian changes
<ajmitch> tigger^: changes to packages in debian
<Kyral> I'll give my bugfixes to Debian and vice versa
<tigger^> debian don't carry my stuff
<ajmitch> tigger^: which is fine
* dredg exudes mushy lovey tolerance in ajmitch's general direction
<Kyral> Ubuntu shouldn't become Debian. Isn't the right to fork a part of the GNU philosopy?
* ajmitch waves a hammer in dredg's direction :)
<marcin>  hi all
<tigger^> ajmitch: quite :)
<ajmitch> Kyral: a fork is what we don't want to be
<HWolf> Kyral, we're not, and will not be debian, but we don't want to fork
<ajmitch> not in the sense of a full split
* Kyral shrugs
<HWolf> Kyral, we want to take advantage of those ~1000 developers, and improve
<HWolf> Kyral, where we can give back, we should.
<marcin> got a question - could someone tell me if doxymacs package is buildable in breezy repo?
<Kyral> Do I think Ubuntu should be binary compatable with Debian, yes
<dredg> Kyral: uh, a handful of MOTUs replicating the work of 1000 debian developers is... a bit of a task
<Kyral> I should be able to install something from Sid without Sid trying to replace X
<ajmitch> binary compatibility is hard, you're talking about getting closer to debian than we are now
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I'm better with code than I am with words my friend ;D
<ajmitch> sid is always moving, we freeze
<Kyral> which is something I like sometimes (Why do you think I jumped to Dapper so fast? I got BORED ;P)
<Kyral> I can tell you somethin' I don't like. Having to "have" Ubuntu-Desktop to upgrade properly. Can someone explain that to me? :P
<ajmitch> Kyral: how else would you like to get the new desktop components?
<Kyral> By having the packages installed....
<schweeb> ubuntu-desktop ensures that you have the entire desktop distributoin
<ajmitch> I said new ones
<ajmitch> not existing packages, which have to be fetched somehow
<tigger^> including nano
* tigger^ boggles
<Kyral> I don't know. But don't make it so that you have to reinstall Ubuntu-Desktop
<tigger^> quite how that's a desktop thing I dunno
<schweeb> there's no way around it Kyral.
<Kyral> Yah there is. Make a meta pack
<Kyral> with all the new stuff
<schweeb> it IS a meta package....
<dredg> Kyral: it's a core package that pulls in other packages as needed
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> I know what Ubuntu Desktop does
<ajmitch> then why suggest something identical?
<schweeb> ubuntu-desktop is the tie that holds the whole desktop distro together
<Kyral> I'm not. You said Ubuntu-Desktop is needed to pull in all the NEW desktop components
<schweeb> the new ones, and the old ones
<Kyral> well, what if I don't use some of the packages in Ubuntu-Desktop?
<schweeb> Kyral: say a package name changes
<Kyral> I personally have a very customized system that I don't want to be cluttered
<schweeb> you put a conflict in ubuntu-desktop
<ajmitch> eg mozilla-firefox ->firefox
<schweeb> and the old package is removed
<Kyral> schweeb, do what they did with the FireFox package
<schweeb> and the new package is added
<Kyral> transitional package
<schweeb> that gets sloppy
<Kyral> No kiddin
<schweeb> you're just being stubborn.
<tigger^> PlanarPlatypus: working fine now ;)
<schweeb> ubuntu-desktop is THE way to do it
<tigger^> Kyral: I have to say, coming from what I used before, it sucks having to have certain things installed :)
<schweeb> if you don't like it, it is possible to work around it
<PlanarPlatypus> tigger^, excellent.  Fyi eclipse now works, bit of a hack needed but it works
<Kyral> That I may be. But I just think I should be able to jump releases without having to reinstall a bunch of stuff that I'm only going to remove immediately
<schweeb> you could always manually query ubuntu-desktop, and manually upgrade the packages you know of
<Kyral> This is an idea. But if you read the documentation on how to upgrade to Breezy it makes it sound like you absolutely must have Ubuntu-Desktop installed
<ajmitch> because the upgrade procedures need to be as simple as possible
<schweeb> that's the Ubuntu Approved (tm) way to do it
* Kyral shrugs
<schweeb> if you want to do it otherwise, it's your perogative
<Kyral> I know I know. For the beginners. I'm a power user :D
<schweeb> then you don't need the docs
<schweeb> and can figure it out yourself
<schweeb> *shrug*
<Kyral> Just wanted to make a suggestion for us non-beginners
<whiprush> the beginners won't remove ubuntu-desktop.
<schweeb> I'm a power user, and I find it easier to do it the right way *shrug*
<whiprush> and the experts know to read documentation
<Kyral> They may by accident
<ajmitch> whiprush: nice to see the universe tour on the fridge
<Kyral> Removing Evolution for one
<ajmitch> I doubt I've got ubuntu-desktop installed, and I can manage upgrades
<Kyral> Anyway, I've stirred up enough trouble for one day
* Kyral goes to sit in his corner
<ajmitch> nothing compared to the trouble I can stir up >:)
<Kyral> Which is why I'm shutting up ;P
<whiprush> ajmitch: yeah woo!
<marcin> guys where can I find build log reports produced by lamont?
<marcin> i forgot url
<marcin> ok nevermind got it
<ajmitch> afternoon all
<ajmitch> hi Arrogance, how are you?
<ajmitch> going to turn up at UBZ?
<Arrogance> I'm tempted.  You going?
* Kyral starts installing XFCE
<ajmitch> sure
<Arrogance> is it safe for 2 Andrew's to be in Montreal at the same time?
<Arrogance> jb might be too confused
<Kyral> lol
<Arrogance> :)
<ajmitch> I think he'll manage
<Kyral> As long as its not two hurricane Andrews ;P
<ajmitch> it's confusing enough with jblack & jbailey :)
<ajmitch> or jdub & jbailey
<jtan325> hi, if i am the maintainer for something that's in the repos, how do i request a newer version to be uploaded?
<ajmitch> jtan325: you give us a link to a package that's newer? and then we can get it in dapper
<ajmitch> jtan325: or if the new version is in debian, it'll get synced automatically until UVF
<jtan325> [ spacey        ] 
<jtan325> whoops
<ajmitch> ?
<jtan325> http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/jtan325/conky/
<jtan325> 1.3.3 is the newest version
<jtan325> 1.3.1 is what's currently in the repositories
<ajmitch> and you've talked to your debian sponsor?
<jtan325> no, i sent an email today
<ajmitch> because that way avoids duplication of work, and avoids breaking syncability
<jtan325> ok, i'll wait for a response from him then
<jtan325> thanks
<ajmitch> as soon as we upload something with a version like -0ubuntu1, it'll stop automatic syncs in future
<dholbach> hellas
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<ajmitch> how are you?
<ajmitch> not in .ca yet? ;)
<dholbach> not yet, no
<dholbach> you?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> I leave tomorrow morning
<dholbach> i'll be there on 19th
<ajmitch> 29th?
<dholbach> 29th, yes :)
<ajmitch> I'll get in a few hours before you
<dholbach> we'll be quite a bunch motus :)
<ajmitch> yep
<dholbach> ... of ...
<Treenaks> I'm arriving on the 29th as well, but in the evening
<Treenaks> 19:25 local time
<dholbach> so we'll be the guys that complain about jetlag? ;)
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> of course
<Treenaks> dholbach: no, if you arrive in the evening, you'll be exhausted (I mean, timezone-corrected it's 00:30)
<Treenaks> dholbach: so you get a good night of sleep, and it's 9:00 in the morning :)
<Treenaks> dholbach: minor jet-lag :)
<dholbach> i arrive at 12:00 :)
<sivang> Treenaks: I will arrive in the evening, guess it will be good for sorting the timezone
<sivang> :)
<pef> someone knows a simple way to get his gpg passphrase cached ? I can get something working using kgpg/pinentry-qt/gpg-agent. Only seahorse (gnome) works fine. Any idea for a Kde based solution ?
<sivang> pef: why do you need to cache it?
<pef> sivang: debuild packages again and again :)
<sivang> pef: ah :)
<sivang> pef: I don't mind entering mine everytime, it makes it secure :-)
<zyga> morning
<pef> zyga: morning
<\sh> moins
<zyga> pef: seahorse
<pef> sivang: mine is realy a "phrase", and is longer to type
<\sh> seahorse is bad
<zyga> pef: ah sorry didn't read to the end
<Mithrandir> pef: why are you signing stuff you don't upload?
<pef> Mithrandir: musn't I sign sources packages when I run dpkg-buildpackage ?
<pef> Mithrandir: when I upload something to revu, dput seems to check my sig
<sivang> pef: how long  ?:)
* sivang wonders why his public key is realtively shorter then others he'd seen
<sivang> when exported with --armor
<zyga> oh side question
<Treenaks> sivang: maybe you have less signatures on it
<Nafallo> is it supposed to be no sound in monkey-bubble?
<Treenaks> sivang: or less uids, or the key has less bits :)
<zyga> when I build stuff with dpkg-buildpackage seahorse works fine and asks for passphrase
<zyga> when I build stuff with debuild it never works, I'm asked to type the passphrase in the shell and it's aways incorrect
<zyga> Nafallo: you need the sound package AFAIR
<Nafallo> where is that then?
<pef> zyga: I find this as a bug in bugs.debian.org, very old bug I remember
<Nafallo> nope, there are /usr/share/monkey-bubble/sounds/*
<zyga> Nafallo: hmm, used to be split up..
<pef> sivang: 2.5Ko
<Nafallo> zyga: you're not thinking of frozen-bubble then?
<zyga> Nafallo: ahhh
<zyga> Nafallo: sorry, similar name
<sivang> Treenaks: If you look at it (from lp) can you tell me what you think?
<pef> go to motorcycle lessons, bye !
<sivang> Treenaks: btw, as more signatures I have, the longer it gets?
<Treenaks> sivang: yes, because those will be exported too (so when you import, you get all signatures back :))
<\sh> Treenaks: thx for your comment ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: np ;)
<\sh> Treenaks: but as i said yesterday, my HG looks better then me in the moment
<Treenaks> \sh: I'll compare again in Montreal
<ajmitch> hmm, people alerting the u-devel mailing list about dapper bugs already? ;)
<\sh> damn...i won't make it to get an appointment for a hairdressre
<sivang> \sh: I hope you feel better soon
<ajmitch> \sh: I'm sure we can sort something out in montreal for you ;)
<sivang> ajmitch: lol, then it would be for me as well
<\sh> so...I my hair will grow
<\sh> another long haired motu for the future ,)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> not nearly as long as some
<\sh> ogra is my idol ,)
<ajmitch> yeah
<sivang> lol
<\sh> i wonder if he found a hostel or hotel room now...he should be in montreal
<ajmitch> he has
<\sh> great
<ajmitch> 11:04 < ajmitch> in montreal already?
<ajmitch> 11:04 < ogra> yup
<ajmitch> 11:04 < ogra> since 10 min in the hostel
<Treenaks> cool
<Mithrandir> screen -rd
<Mithrandir> heh, oh well
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: wb :)
<_Tonio_> morning all
<thesaltydog> I have seen that bum has been synched in dapper. Today there is a full new v.2.0.0 available on debian. Is there any motu that can sync this new version?
* \sh is doing some real life work....brb
<dholbach> it will be autosynced
<thesaltydog> grazie daniel
<thesaltydog> I didn't know about this autosynching process.
<zyga> Lathiat: hi
<Lathiat> zyga: sup
<ajmitch> hello zyga
<zyga> Lathiat: do you know anything about lucas' cooperation with debian?
<zyga> ajmitch: hi :-)
<Lathiat> zyga: whos lucas?
<Lathiat> as in irc nick lucas?
<zyga> Lathiat: yes
<Lathiat> no idea
<zyga> lucas: ping
* zyga didn't notice lucas is here
<lucas> zyga what do youi mean ?
<zyga> lucas: you were saying that ruby should be fixed in debian and then synce
<zyga> I was wondering wether there is any progress in this matter
<Lathiat> whats wrong with it?
<Lathiat> which bug?
<zyga> Lathiat: generic ruby issues
<Lathiat> bug no?
<zyga> Lathiat: packaging scheme and such
<zyga> Lathiat: I'm not sure there is any but somene might correct me
<Lathiat> its hard to fix bugs
<Lathiat> if there is no bug
<Lathiat> :)
<Lathiat> there should be one, at least in ubuntu, if not debian
<lucas> what are the problems with the packaging scheme ?
* zyga must need memory chip replaced
<zyga> lucas, Lathiat: maybe I've confused something - I feel terrible today
<\sh> re
<pef> \sh: re :)
<\sh> sivang: just packed the book of bob young in my bag
<ajmitch> hmm, bags
<ajmitch> I should probably pack sometime ;)
<Lathiat> haha
<ajmitch> I've still got ~12hrs before I fly
<ajmitch> plenty of time
<\sh> oh well...
<\sh> i'm w8ing for my washing to be finished, so that i have dry clothes for saturday ,)
<ajmitch> mine is mostly dry
<\sh> my first load of washing is not even finished...
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> that reminds me of something...i hope my jacket is here in my flat somewhere and not in my ex-wifes house
<ajmitch> mine is sitting here, got it a couple of weeks ago :)
<\sh> i mean the boss one
<\sh> but hey...nobody told me to take casual clothings with me...so t-shirts and warm stuff must do
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> definitely casual
<\sh> no...for me is casual something like trousers != jeans != leather
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> u know..a nice boss outfit
<\sh> lets check
<ajmitch> when do you fly?
<ajmitch> hm, someone emailing me directly asking about IDEs for doing pygtk work
<Nafallo> ehm
<\sh> ajmitch: saturday...means in less then 36 h
<\sh> glade and emacs
<Nafallo> why does monkey-bubble eat 100% CPU? :-)
<\sh> or glade and vim
<\sh> or eric
<\sh> which is qt python stuff
<\sh> but my jacket is here...and my ties as well
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah, this guy looked at glade & anjuta & boa constructor
<\sh> so i'm prepared
<ajmitch> so I don't know what I can add :)
<\sh> eric
<\sh> thats all
* ajmitch will suggest the use of libglade, at least
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> pygtk
<\sh> boa constructor is pygtk-wx
<ajmitch> wants something to put together interfaces easily, which is usually glade
<ajmitch> not that I've used it much :)
<\sh> glade
<ajmitch> ^
<ajmitch> \sh: you sound a lot more prepared than I am
<ajmitch> and I fly in ~12 (now 11) h
<HWolf> Where must I suggest packages that not in debian for inclusion into universe?
<ajmitch> UniverseCandidates
<ajmitch> or upload to REVU if you have a package
<\sh> ajmitch: yeah..but i think i'm more nervous then u r :)
<ajmitch> \sh: dunno why :)
<ajmitch> all I need is laptop, ticket & passport ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: just because I have problems during take offs and landings
<ajmitch> ah
<\sh> that means...i have to write my last will
<ajmitch> I have problems having to sit in a seat & get bored for hours on end
<\sh> ajmitch: oh well..this is not my problem at all..ok, the stewardess will be a bit annoyed to come with the beer every 10 mins ,)
<ajmitch> hehe :)
<\sh> and i hope air canada has nice movies on the plane...just like BA
<ajmitch> I'll be on an air NZ plane to the US
<ajmitch> I hope I get an upgraded plane :)
<dholbach> Nafallo: ouch yes, it does :)
<\sh> dholbach: still in .de?
<dholbach> yep
<Nafallo> dholbach: I noticed on the fan and then looked at gnome-system-monitor ;-)
<dholbach> now berlin, tonight, trier, saturday frankfurt :)
<Nafallo> the worst thing was that it takes 100% with only the first screen up :-P
<Nafallo> and that I have no sound... ;-)
<dholbach> feel free to send me a patch, i will include it ;)
<Nafallo> :-)
<siretart> Flight 9604 from frankfurth anyone?
<siretart> except \sh ;)
<\sh> hehe
<Treenaks> BA0435 from Amsterdam on Saturday anyone? Or BA0095 from Heathrow? ;)
<siretart> ;)
<Treenaks> siretart: luckily, I got another ubuntu-nl guy to come with me :)
<Treenaks> siretart: so I won't be bored all the time :)
<tigger^> why does dh_make create manpage files?
<tigger^> I assume I can just bin them?
<dholbach> depends
<dholbach> does upstream ship manpages?
<tigger^> Yeah
<tigger^> I do
<tigger^> :)
<dholbach> then you can :)
<dholbach> some upstreams don't :)
<dholbach> then the package mainteinaer has to take care of it
<tigger^> I would comment on all this packaging stuff, but I can't phrase it without sounding like a flame
<tigger^> Which it really isn't
<tigger^> But I'll keep quiet and just do it ;P
<pef> dholbach: hello
<dholbach> pef hello, how are you?
<pef> dholbach: fine, thanks, and you ?
<dholbach> me too, thanks :)
<tigger^> what is "emacsen"?
<dholbach> remove it :)
<dholbach> emacs stuff
<dholbach> you probably won't need
<pef> dholbach: concerning this bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kcheckgmail/+bug/2018, can I upload the corrected package to REVU ?
<tigger^> k
<dholbach> debdiff?
<pef> dholbach: an upload to revu makes the review faster, isn't it ?
<dholbach> no idea :)
<pef> eheh
<pef> so I will upload both of them
<dholbach> just do malone
<dholbach> i have a look
<dholbach> that's a problem in hoary?
<pef> dholbach: I think, because package in Hoary is an old version, and I can't see any fix on hoary-updates
<dholbach> is the bug in breezy and dapper too?
<pef> dholbach: for breezy I have change my fix, and for dapper a sync from Debian (they have applied my fix) is needed
<pef> changed my fix to apply on breezy's version
<dholbach> if you can check the packages on breezy and hoary, we can push them in via breezy-updates and hoary-updates, but that's something for mdz/kamion to review
<ajmitch> dholbach: hatari? how was that sponsored?
<dholbach> it was an apt-get.org thing
<ajmitch> changelog just doesn't say what was changed :)
<dholbach> the maintainer asked me to upload it and i didnt want to ask him to change version/distribution
<pef> dholbach: ok, I will try to write a patch for hoary's version. Another question, package's version on breezy is 5.3a-1build1, should I increase it to 5.3a-1build2 or to 5.3a-2 ?
<dholbach> if you do a change, then it's 5.3a-1ubuntu1
<dholbach> a REAL change :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: sorry to complain, I just don't like seeing changelog entries like that :)
<ajmitch> since it give very little info
<dholbach> yeah, i should have made a proper use of -v
* ajmitch shouldn't tell off the master MOTU - you're the one who has the power ;)
<pef> dholbach: applying a patch is a REAL change ? (without the patch the app doesn't work)
<dholbach> no, it was perfectly right, to say that
<ajmitch> pef: certainly
<ajmitch> pef: any change to the source or the packaging
<dholbach> pef: yes, buildN is just for rebuilds (where you just change the changelog)
<pef> ok, thanks ! :] 
<ajmitch> ok, got ac adaptor for phone, camera & laptop
<ajmitch> tickets, passport, laptop..
<ajmitch> I guess I just need to finish packing clothes :)
<\sh> ajmitch: when r u arriving in CA? local time?
<ajmitch> 0711 on the 29th ;)
<ajmitch> (yes they put 11)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: date line \o/
<ajmitch> Treenaks: yep, leave NZ friday night, arrive friday lunchtime in US :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: about that Universe, MOTU, & Debian BOF.. it came out of a discussion on #d-devel earlier today
<pef> dholbach: for information, only mdz approve breezy-updates changes
<dholbach> pef: merci
<dholbach> ajmitch: i see, yeah, we should talk about it
<\sh> ajmitch: so early in the morning...+4915201542346 (priv. mobile) siretart and I will arrive around 1600 at the airport...so i hope 1700 at least i'm ready to have some food and drinks
<ajmitch> dholbach: I still have a bias towards getting things into debian where possible :)
<ajmitch> \sh: heh ok
<\sh> ajmitch: i can't speak up for siretart
<ajmitch> \sh: I'll be busy at 5pm, but I should be around before then or after 6
* ajmitch can't get to church on sunday, so has to go saturday evening :)
<\sh> ajmitch: send me your mobile no. so I'll send an sms
<ajmitch> ok
<\sh> a sms..not an sms
<\sh> ajmitch: or query it ,)
<ajmitch> hopefully roaming will work there
<Treenaks> ajmitch: check the wiki :)
<ajmitch> Treenaks: I know :)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: I added a note about what _should_ work :)
<ajmitch> Treenaks: I'll check it out tomorrow at the airport - I've got a 6 hour wait up in auckland :)
<ajmitch> I know vodafone supports roaming there, I think I need to request it though
<Treenaks> I get to try Vodafone/UK first :)
<\sh> Treenaks: which wiki page?
<Treenaks> \sh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero
* ajmitch shoudl still have his australian SIM somewhere
<Treenaks> \sh: under "Travel"
<\sh> got it :)
<ajmitch> when spending a couple of months in .au last year, I found it was a little cheaper to get a SIM locally :)
<\sh> i hope the nokia 6100 and 6230i is triband
<\sh> i never really cared
<sivang> \sh: heh thanks :)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: it usually is, but it's less convenient (number changes, nobody can call you, etc.)
* ajmitch checked, has a triband phone :)
<ajmitch> Treenaks: nah, it was convenient enough
<ajmitch> I just gave people in .au my new number
<tigger^> ajmitch: how do I handle adding user/group accounts for a package?
<ajmitch> oh that's fun
<tigger^> ug
<ajmitch> something to look up in debian policy & developer's reference
<tigger^> I don't like it when peopl say that ;P
<ajmitch> I know :)
<ajmitch> but it's the easiest way, honestly
* ajmitch has to do it to a package as well
<tigger^> no no
<tigger^> I don't mind reading :)
<\sh> ah...
<tigger^> I mean I hate "that's fun"
<tigger^> :)
<\sh> 6230i is triband
<ajmitch> http://www.us.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-lower-privs
<ajmitch> tigger^: there's an example there
* Treenaks has a Motorola E1000
<tigger^> ok, ta
<Treenaks> which is triband + WCDMA2100 ("UMTS")
<Treenaks> so I can even use it in Japan :)
* ajmitch has sony ericsson k700i, useful little phone
<Nafallo> siemens mc60 :-P
<ajmitch> \sh: sent you a test sms from here :)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: need my number too? :)
<ajmitch> Treenaks: sure
<\sh> ajmitch: k...i'll check the mobile it has to be charged first :(
<\sh> but the 6100 is as well triband
<\sh> ajmitch: write down this...+491603683273
<\sh> ajmitch: it's company number, but if vodaphone is not working...german telekom has to
<tigger^> ajmitch: hmm. that's kinda ugly
<Treenaks> ajmitch: do you have a hackergotchi? :)
<tigger^> ajmitch: handling that every time in each package which needs to do this :/
<ajmitch> Treenaks: not currently, look for UDU photos :)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: ok :)
<ajmitch> \sh: got it
<\sh> ajmitch: send u a test message from the 160 no
<ajmitch> \sh: got it
<\sh> wow...fast
<\sh> hehe
<ajmitch> yep
<\sh> works
<ajmitch> we need jabber clients on phones :)
<\sh> ajmitch: i tried tipic on the 6230i it ran but i couldn't get any connection to the tipic jabber server...
<Treenaks> \o/ vodafone :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> \sh: I wonder if there's one for my phone..
<\sh> Treenaks: i send it via t-mobile now..the vodaphone mobile is just charging :(
<ajmitch> I don't have a data plan setup anyway
<\sh> ajmitch: check tipic.com
<\sh> ajmitch: I paid 12  for the test of tipic ..stupid gprs data fees
<ajmitch> hmm, none for the phone I have :)
<Treenaks> I need to hop by the vodafone store and make them tell me how to setup a GOOD umts connection
<Treenaks> (i.e. one from my laptop)
<Treenaks> the current connection only works with WAP traffic
<Treenaks> which SUCKS
* ajmitch hasn't bothered to use his laptop & the phone together for internet
<ajmitch> too expensive
<ajmitch> I suppose I should write down which hotel I'm going to ;)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: nah ;)
* Treenaks has an address + google maps printout for the Hostel -> HolidayInn route
<ajmitch> I'll just say to the taxi driver - 'UBZ thanks'
<Treenaks> ajmitch: "kthxbye"
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> ok...i think my first load of washing is finished...lets check
<\sh> brb
<ajmitch> sigh
<Treenaks> oh, and you'll ALL be videotaped saying that you use Ubuntu, of course ;)
<ajmitch> my laptop just happens to be in a french locale now
<Treenaks> ajmitch: uh.. any special reason for that?
<ajmitch> Treenaks: I felt like it
<ajmitch> I was playing around with the language selector :)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: "It was an accident! Really!"
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I didn't expect the default locale to change
<ajmitch> so gdm is in french now
<Treenaks> Mot de passe
<ajmitch> :)
* ajmitch did learn french for a few years, probably good to refresh that
<Nafallo> baah, be smart. do as slomo. learn swedish :-).
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> nobody speaks swedish :)
<Nafallo> well...
<Treenaks> Nafallo: Swedish is just Dutch with an accent :P
<Nafallo> the swedes do ;-)
<Nafallo> Treenaks: tsss ;-)
<ajmitch> but noone really takes notice of them ;)
<Nafallo> :-P
<ajmitch> Treenaks: yeah, I should learn dutch before I learn french :)
<sivang> guys, do we have a godo WYSIWYG html editor in universe?
<ajmitch> nvu?
<Treenaks> sivang: nvu?
<sivang> Treenaks: thx
<Treenaks> bluefish?
<dholbach> screem?
<sivang> bluefish is wyiwyg ?
<ajmitch> screem is wysiwyg?
<sivang> more of a coding editor, IIRC
<Treenaks> sivang: if you have firefox open next to it, and know your Ctrl+R, yes
<sivang> I think nvu is the true one
<ajmitch> wysiwyg html editing is visual layout, not writing html :)
<Treenaks> it's also the name of a group of Dutch neo-nazis
<dholbach> nice :)
<Treenaks> dholbach: www,nvu.info
<dholbach> we have them in germany too
<dholbach> it's just dvu
<ajmitch> we have our share of neo-nazis as well
<sivang> ajmitch: whee, I LIKE! "$ avahi-broswer --all" :)
<Lathiat> sivang: try 'avahi-discover' :)
<Treenaks> sounds like I should install avahi before UBZ :)
<sivang> Lathiat, ajmitch : do we have a GUI for those ?
<Lathiat> sivang: for what?
<ajmitch> avahi-discover
<Treenaks> Lathiat: avahi*
<Lathiat> sivang: avahi-discover *is* the gui :)
<ajmitch> service-discovery-applet
<sivang> like avahi integration with pYGTK gui
<sivang> it would rock :)
<Lathiat> sivang: it is pygtk :)
<ajmitch> sivang: uh.. see those packages we listed :)
<Lathiat> avahi-discover is in avahi-utils
<ajmitch> s/packages/apps/
<Amaranth> Lathiat: don't you know pygtk is slow and a memory hog </d-d-l>
<sivang> ajmitch: and the applet? I don't see it installed
<Lathiat> Amaranth: of course, use gtk# and mono instead!
<ajmitch> sivang: so get it
<ajmitch> Lathiat: no
<ajmitch> Lathiat: java on ikvm on  mono
<Lathiat> ajmitch: oh oh!
<Lathiat> my bad!
<sivang> ajmitch: installed it, cannot add it through "add to panle" though
<ajmitch> sivang: just wait
<ajmitch> sivang: gnome-panel has update issues at times
<Treenaks> panle? a British panel? :P
<ajmitch> wb Lathiat!!!1
<sivang> ajmitch: I'll remove and readd to the sessoin then
<ajmitch> obviously I shoudl sleep ;)
* sivang smiles evily seeing all those Remote Desktop discoveries on his internal LAN :)
<Lathiat> Seveas: :)
<ajmitch> wb Seveas
* Amaranth smiles as his whois
<Amaranth> thanks Seveas
<Treenaks> Save As :P
<Seveas> haia
* ajmitch wonders whether he should ever get a cloak
<Lathiat> ajmitch: of course!
<Lathiat> last one ins a rotten egg
<ajmitch> Lathiat: yes, but which one?
<Lathiat> ubuntu, obviously
<ajmitch> ubuntu cloak? DD cloak?
<Lathiat> its cooler
<Lathiat> i know
<Lathiat> get a gentoo cloak
<ajmitch> oh yeah
<ajmitch> because I do -O99 all the way
<Lathiat> only 99?
<Lathiat> dude
<Lathiat> you disappoint
<Mithrandir> -O-1 is teh love
<ajmitch> gcc 4.2 snapshot of course
<Lathiat> haha Mithrandir
<Amaranth> it's funny, most of the time all those things actually slow things down, but don't tell #gentoo that
<Amaranth> and -Os is almost always the best one to use
<Treenaks> all possible -fflags
<Mithrandir> Amaranth: not if you have 64MB L2 caches.
<Amaranth> well, sure
<Amaranth> but that's an itanium
<Seveas> Amaranth, after jdubs talk one of the worst gentoo-ricers I know is know using Ubuntu
<Seveas> and he likes it :)
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> man
<Lathiat> i tried to install gentoo the other day
<Lathiat> just for the hell of it
<Amaranth> who uses an itanium on a desktop?
<Lathiat> a day later i had like a half working kde
<Lathiat> and my favourite games were broken
<ajmitch> Lathiat: admit it, it was so that you could be cool
* Lathiat hides from ajmitch 
<ajmitch> Amaranth: someone with shares in the power company
<Amaranth> haha
<Amaranth> no, you'd have a dual core xeon then
<Amaranth> or a POWER5
<Mithrandir> Amaranth: hey, it's occasionally cold here in .no
<Amaranth> those fsckers can use over a megawatt
<ajmitch> Amaranth: a megawatt?
* ajmitch finds that a little hard to believe
<Amaranth> why? the dual core xeon uses like 300
<Amaranth> watts
<ajmitch> kilowatt, you mean :)
<Treenaks> Amaranth: megawatt = 1000000 watt
<Amaranth> oh, my bad
<Amaranth> early morning
<ajmitch> if I had 1MW usage on my house I'd be seriously worried
<Amaranth> i don't deal with measurements smaller than giga* these days ;)
<Treenaks> Amaranth: jigawatts!
<ajmitch> 1.21 of them, of course
<Lathiat> also
<Lathiat> compiling in gentoo
<Lathiat> makes my laptop cpu force itself down to 800MHz
<Treenaks> ajmitch: yes, but keep them away from jdub's blog :)
<Lathiat> and still sits on 63 degrees :(
<ajmitch> Lathiat: you do anything other than compiling?
<Treenaks> Lathiat: C of F ?
<Lathiat> Treenaks: C
<ajmitch> Lathiat: don't worry
<Lathiat> and im not so sure that that limit isnt a sensor limit, being at 63 :)
<dholbach>  see you later
<ajmitch> my desktop still sits at ~80C
<Lathiat> so maybe my poor laptop is at 1337 degrees :)
<ajmitch> bye dholbach
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh but your desktop is  desktop
<Lathiat> thi is a laptop
<Treenaks> dholbach: bye
<ajmitch> Lathiat: my desktop is a toaster
<Lathiat> which after halving and locking its cpu speed
<Lathiat> still is hot :(
<Amaranth> ~80C in a laptop == no kids
<ajmitch> hah
<Lathiat> i had an old toshiba
<Lathiat> and it had a fan control progrma
<Lathiat> 'tfan'
<Lathiat> (it would never turn itself on)
<Lathiat> so i renamed it to 'i_want_to_have_kids_one_day'
<Seveas> :)
<ajmitch> a suitable name :)
<sivang> anybody here uses p4-clockmod ?
<ajmitch> hm, so what else should I remember to put on my laptop before I go? :)
<Amaranth> ajmitch: lots of pr0n
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> right, need latest bzr code & plugins..
<ajmitch> and bzr branch of my scripts
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<tigger^> ajmitch: ok, so riddle me this.. the guide says use preinst/postinst, but our makefile chowns a file to that user
<tigger^> ajmitch: so dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot barfs
<tigger^> invalid user
<tigger^> So..
<tigger^> eh?
<tigger^> ls
<tigger^> oops :)
<sivang> ajmitch: it's called "Zeroconf Discovery Service" in the pannle add-to
<sivang> ajmitch: looks nice, currently found only on emachine to ssh to
<sivang> ajmitch: why not also adding Remote Desktop links to it?
<Lathiat> sivang: i think it sees VNC ?
<Lathiat> not sure
* Lathiat looks
<sivang> Lathiat: I saw them! Really
<sivang> Lathiat: I saw them on the command line when I uses avahi-browser --all
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> the service discovery applet only shows a few known services
<Lathiat> that it can launch things for
<Lathiat> (thats the whole point of it)
<Lathiat> i guess vnc could be added
<ajmitch> tigger^: I'd say look at some example packages :)
<sivang> Lathiat: can I help you with that? can I fetch avahi using jhbuild?
<Lathiat> sivang: you can get avahi i think
<Lathiat> but not s-d-a
<sivang> ah I see
<Lathiat> talk to sebest on #avahi/freenode
<sivang> not in freedesktop/gnome.org ?
<Lathiat> hes the s-d-a master
<sivang> k, thanks
<Lathiat> svn://svn.0pointer.de/service-discovery-applet/trunk
<Lathiat> and
<sivang> Lathiat: you're the backedn guy then?
<Lathiat> svn://svn.0pointer.de/avahi/trunk
<Lathiat> sivang: yeh me, and lennart
<Lathiat> sebest wrote alot of the utilities
<Lathiat> some other people did stuff
<Lathiat> c# bindings
<Lathiat> that was uh
<ajmitch> snorp
<Lathiat> yes
<Lathiat> i keep getting him confused with slomo
<ajmitch> hehe
<Lathiat> because of the starting s
<Lathiat> so i went to look in svn log to check
<Lathiat> im terrible i know :(
<Kyral> Mornin'
<sivang> mornign Kyral
<Kyral> hey sivang sup?
<ajmitch> hello
<Kyral> hey mitch
<Treenaks> sivang-soup?
<Kyral> lol
<sivang> Treenaks: what?
<sivang> Kyral: fine, you?
<Treenaks> 15:05 <       Kyral> hey sivang sup?
<sivang> Treenaks: ah yeah :)
* ajmitch wonders why people call him 'mitch' :)
<Kyral> 'cause I'm too lazy to type out "ajmitch"
<Mithrandir> aj<TAB> :-P
<Kyral> anyway I switched over to XFCE last night
<Kyral> and coming to grips with the fact that I'm gonna have to get up at 5 AM to make it to UBZ
<ajmitch> that's nothing
<sivang> Kyral: you're canadian ?
<Kyral> sivang, American :D
<sivang> Kyral: up north ? :)
<Kyral> but my college is 2 1/2 hours south of Montreal
<Kyral> yah, very close to the border
<sivang> Kyral: Ithaca ?
<Kyral> Potsdam
<sivang> eh, then I don't know about it :)
<sivang> Kyral: I had some freinds and family over Cornell, and some over Ithaca college - so that's the only region there I know some, the tompkins county
<sivang> Kyral: (never really been there, just from photos and talks)
<Kyral> Didja hear about Tompkins County?
* ajmitch doesn't know anything about the region :)
<sivang> Kyral: Cayuga lakes are amazing
<Kyral> Go read this week's DistroWatch Weekly
<Kyral> Yah mean the Finger Lakes?
<sivang> Kyral: I was told one that was shown to me in photos is Cayuga lake, maybe it's one of the finger lakes, can't recall
<Kyral> Cayuga, Senaca, Canandaigua, damn I forgot the other two
<sivang> would relaly like to visit there
<Kyral> Where are you from sivang?
<sivang> but US visa is long long process for us :-)
<sivang> Kyral: .IL
<Kyral> .IL?
* ajmitch is going to visit NY state after UBZ
<Kyral> Forgive my idiot Americanness?
<sivang> Kyral: nahh, Israel
<sivang> :)
<Kyral> ajmitch, come visit Clarkson :P
<ajmitch> Kyral: as long as you know what .nz is, you're fine
<Kyral> New Zealand I believe
<ajmitch> :)
* sivang really appriciates NY state's policy regarding outdoor/pub smoking ;-)
<ajmitch> and .at? ;)
<Kyral> Australia
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> austria
<Kyral> damnit ;P
<ajmitch> hehe
<sivang> ah,, no avahi in hoary's universe..
<sivang> shame
<ajmitch> sivang: I'd be surprised if it were in hoary
<Kyral> Anyway I need breakfast
<sivang> ajmitch: I wanted to instal in on my hoary server
<Kyral> cya all at UBZ :D
<ajmitch> considering when the first release was :)
<sivang> Kyral: laters
<ajmitch> bye Kyral
<sivang> ajmitch: backports? :) <blink>
<ajmitch> sivang: please no
<sivang> hehe, kidding, really
<Lathiat> sivang: avahi wasnt even out at the time of hoary :)
<thesaltydog> what is our policy concerning BSD-licensed software?
<ajmitch> thesaltydog: 3 or 4 clause?
<ajmitch> both are free software
<thesaltydog> ajmitch, uh...don't know.
<ajmitch> how many conditions does it have listed? :)
<thesaltydog> ajmitch, so a BSD-licensed software can be uploaded to universe?
<ajmitch> it only matters for things like linking to GPL software
<ajmitch> thesaltydog: much of universe is BSD-licensed
<ajmitch> and much of main, in fact
<thesaltydog> ok. thanks..
<thesaltydog> ajmitch, it is 3 clauses
<ajmitch> which is 99% of BSD software :)
<ajmitch> so no problems at all
<thesaltydog> thanks
<pef> can someone have a look at this patch ? I think it's a gcc4 problem http://dev.erodia.net/ubuntu/ginac_const-fix.diff
<ajmitch> night all
<luk> DapperDrake: can I join the Dutch loco team?
<luk> I'm a DD and I want to help with syncing and merging, can somebody give me a pointer where to start?
<siretart> luk: thanks for your offer! Atm, we are waiting for the merging bugs to be created on bugzilla
<siretart> luk: for hoary, we had an autocreated bug on bugzilla for every package which needed manually merging
<siretart> luk: I think we will do the same for dapper, but I'm not really sure, because it isn't there yet. but it will come, for sure
<siretart> luk: for merging work http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/ has proved to be very very useful!
<luk> siretart: I tried that URL, but it just keeps loading and doesn't show anything
<siretart> thats strange, that url works for me [tm] . hmm.
<luk> the README worked though, and I know that there should be sub folders only not sure which ones
<siretart> there is a very long list of packages for me..
<luk> oh, now it works
<siretart> ah
<luk> maybe related with the maintenance of launchpad etc?
<siretart> perhaps a webserver restart?
<siretart> I don't think p.u.c is using launchpad infrastructure
<spayne> what is up with launchpad atm?
<spayne> ah! i feel i belong in Ubuntu land now :)
<spayne> people are not bad mouthing me as much
<Mithrandir> siretart: MOM isn't running until after UBZ
<luk> Mithrandir: anything else I can start with in the meantime taking in consideration that launchpad isn't available atm?
<siretart> Mithrandir: aah, thanks for pointing. didn't know that
<luk> no? then I'll do some upstream (= Debian) work :-)
<Mithrandir> for those who wondered
<Mithrandir> 16:52 < stub> launchpad is backup
<siretart> whoohoo, nicer than before! :)
<Lathiat> what changed?
<siretart> the left bar looks nicer
<ivoks> uh, loco teams are time consuming :)
<\sh> re
<Nafallo> \sh: morning :-)
<\sh> so.
<\sh> tomorrow I only have to pack my clothes in my bag ,-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: distcc work for you ?
* \sh  is brb restarting dircproxy
<Nafallo> Yagisan: as said. I have no hardware to try it with.
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> how do i setup this cloak stuff...i see it's registered to my  nick...but
<\sh> somehow doesn't work ;)
<schweeb> I think it's gotta be setup by someone who is authorized to do so
<\sh> well...it's setup already :)
<\sh> (by freenode)
<Nafallo> \sh: did you identify? :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: whois me pls
<Nafallo> \sh: odd
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> i bet it's the \ in my nick ;)
<Nafallo> #hyperion for bugs? ;-)
<Nafallo> or is it Seveas for bugs now? :-)
<\sh> lilo was the one from freenode ?
<Seveas> -NickServ-   Last Seen Address: n=shermann@ubuntu/member/\sh
<\sh> 19:22 -!- \sh [n=shermann@server3.servereyes.de]  has joined #ubuntu-motu
<Seveas> \sh, use your nickserv password as server password
<\sh> argl
<\sh> ok
<\sh> moment
<Seveas> and indeed: bugs -> Seveas
<Nafallo> hmm, works for me without using the serverpassword
<Seveas> then you have a good irc client :)
<Nafallo> xchat :-)
<Nafallo> through \sh's dircproxy ;-)
<Seveas> ah
<Seveas> then it's dircproxy that takes care of it
<Nafallo> yepp :-)
<Nafallo> nothing sets my password except me ;-)
<\sh> well.
<\sh> no
<\sh> 19:29 -!- \sh [n=sh@server3.servereyes.de]  has joined #ubuntu-motu
<Nafallo> \sh: Seveas for bugs :-)
<\sh> yeah
<Seveas> \sh, try without proxy and make sure you identified before entering a channel
<\sh> well..identification is done before i entered this channel
<Seveas> it must be done before entering *any* channel
<\sh> Seveas: I setup dircproxy to send a server password now
<\sh> 19:28 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Password Incorrect
<\sh> but it's correct :)
<Seveas> hmm
<Seveas> you're identified now
<Nafallo> I got that to.
<Nafallo> hmm
<\sh> 19:31 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-            Nickname: \sh << ONLINE >>
<\sh> 19:31 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-          Registered: 4 years 6 weeks 2 days (5h 57m 23s) ago
<\sh> 19:31 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-   Last Seen Address: n=sh@ubuntu/member/\sh
<\sh> 19:31 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-  Last Seen Quit Msg: ballard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
<\sh> 19:31 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-               Cloak: ubuntu/member/\sh
<\sh> 19:31 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-       Email Address: sh@sourcecode.de
<\sh> ROTFL
<\sh> 19:30 -!- End of WHOIS
<\sh> 19:32 !calvino.freenode.net NickServ set your hostname to "ubuntu/member/backslash-sh"
<\sh> 19:32 -!- \sh [n=sh@ubuntu/member/backslash-sh] 
<\sh> 19:32 -!-  ircname  : Stephan Hermann
<\sh> 19:32 -!-  channels : #ubuntu-motu
<\sh> SOMEONE MADE A MISTAKE
<Nafallo> hm, password works here :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: the problem is the \ ,-)
<Seveas> meh: --- WHOIS :Server load is temporarily too heavy. Please wait a while and try again.
<Seveas> --- [\sh]  End of WHOIS list.
<\sh> now he got it ,-)
<\sh> but wrong
<Seveas> you want it to just be sh/
<Nafallo> and it seems whois removes the cloak when not identified and adds it again as soon as I identify, so being on a channel or not has nothing to do with it :-)
<\sh> Seveas: no...
<Seveas> i think \sh is impossible in a cloak
<\sh> Seveas: the doc tells the user: the cloak consists of bla/foo/<nick>
<\sh> Seveas: which means, a hostname could consists of \ or | which is not possible ;)
<\sh> Seveas: so the doc is wrong
<Seveas> yeah
<Seveas> you should poke lilo about that, it's nothing I can solve
<\sh> Seveas: yeah
<\sh> Seveas: what timezone is he?
<Seveas> houston
<Seveas> 12:36 there now
<\sh> ok...i don't wake him up ;)
<Seveas> (worldclock gdesklet rocks :))
<Amaranth> how do i make my package create a symlink?
<luk> Amaranth: dh_link could do that, read the manpage for more info
<\sh> solved ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: oh? :-)
<Nafallo> hehe
<\sh> Nafallo: as I said, the cloaks are following hostname rules and not nickname rules
<Amaranth> hrm, i guess that works
<luk> Amaranth: well don't be afraid to ask if it doesn't, I'll be happy to help
<Amaranth> i just need to figure out where to put it using cdbs
<luk> Amaranth: putting it in debian/<bin_package>.links will probably just work
<jamessan|work> Amaranth: you could just have a debian/package.links ... yeah, what luk said
<jamessan|work> :)
<Amaranth> oh, cdbs calls dh_link?
* Amaranth tries it
<jamessan|work> if you include debhelper, yes
<Amaranth> i do
<Amaranth> doesn't seem to work
<Amaranth> *facepalm*
<Amaranth> package.links should be alacarte.links
<Lathiat> such a crap name
* Lathiat throws tomatoes at Amaranth 
<Amaranth> ok avahi
<Seveas> \sh, fwiw the '/' is invalid in a hostname too ;0
<Seveas> :)
<Lathiat> avahi is a great name
<Lathiat> dont knock it :)
* Lathiat kicks Amaranth 
<\sh> Seveas: yeah...but this is what they implemented
<Amaranth> Yes it is, so is alacarte. :)
* Amaranth kicks lamont 
<Amaranth> err
<Lathiat> hahaha
<Lathiat> NO
<Lathiat> ITS CRAP
<Lathiat> its official
<Amaranth> you're crap
<Amaranth> it's better than smeg
<Lathiat> sif it is
<Lathiat> people just need to have watched red dwarf, and not associate it with that other ugly thing. :)
<Lathiat> Amaranth: :)
<Amaranth> you're kidding me, lintian wants me to make a manpage for my symlink
<Lathiat> what does alacarte mean anyway
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<Lathiat> Amaranth: haha
<Lathiat> just made it up?
<Lathiat> or what?
* lamont throws Amaranth over his shoulder
<Lathiat> how as it derviced
<Amaranth> it's french
<Amaranth> E: alacarte: python-script-but-no-python-dep ./usr/bin/alacarte
<Amaranth>  <--stupid lintian
<lamont> Amaranth: so link the man page tool
<Amaranth> err
<pef> Lathiat: it means you can choose chat you want
<pef> s/chat/what/
<lamont> s/tool/too
<Lathiat> ah cool
<Lathiat> well im going to bed
<Amaranth> i've tried python (>= 2.4, << 2.5), python2.4, it's just never happy
<Lathiat> night
<pef> Lathiat: good night !
<Lathiat> pef: IT MAY NOT BE!
<Lathiat> BUT HOPEFULLY :)
<pef> ;)
<Lathiat> nearly morning anyway, 2am. :)
<jamessan|work> Amaranth: Depends: ${python:Depends}
<jamessan|work> let dh_python handle it
<Amaranth> but then i need to build-dep on python
<jamessan|work> ah yeah.  why not just use: python (>=2.4), python-dev (>=2.4)
<ajmitch> morning all
<Amaranth> ok, then how do i depend on python-gtk2?
<ajmitch> ah, the wonders of sleep deprivation :)
<Amaranth> python-gtk2 (>= 2.6) or python2.4-gtk2 (>= 2.6)?
<jamessan|work> unless alacarte works only with 2.4, I'd go with the former
<Amaranth> but what if python-gtk2 depends on python2.4-gtk2 and i'm using python2.5?
<Amaranth> meh
* Amaranth punts on the issue
<jamessan|work> that's the fun of a python transition
<Amaranth> E: alacarte: python-script-but-no-python-dep ./usr/bin/alacarte
<Amaranth> grr
<Amaranth> whoa, the control.tar.gz's control file inside the deb has no Depends line at all, is that normal?
<jamessan|work> I've never had that happen.  are you using setup.py to install alacarte?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> cdbs is doing all the work
<jamessan|work> and you included python-distutils?
<Amaranth> yep
<jamessan|work> odd
<Amaranth> should it be before or after debhelper?
<Amaranth> Depends: ${python:Depends}, python-gtk2 (>= 2.6), python-libxml2 (>= 2.6.17), python-glade2 (>= 2.6), python-gnome2 (>= 2.6), gnome-menus (>= 2.10), python-xdg (>= 0.15, << 0.16)
<Amaranth> does that look wrong to anyone?
<Amaranth> i know when my Conflicts line was invalid it was getting tossed
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> python-xdg (>= 0.15, << 0.16)
<Amaranth> what's wrong with it?
<ajmitch> split that into 2 depends!
<Amaranth> it worked before
<ajmitch> surprising
<jamessan|work> Amaranth: I include debhelper first
<Amaranth> me too
<jamessan|work> so, the problem is probably what ajmitch pointed out
<Amaranth> yay, lintian finally shut up
<Amaranth> oh, that explains why linda was dying
<Amaranth> it spit out python-xdg (<= 0.15 as a part of the error
<jamessan|work> might want to reportbug that so it handles it more gracefully
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<Amaranth> not important, i should have known when i saw the error
<Amaranth> linda and lintian both like my deb, changes, and dsc
<Amaranth> crap, python-libxml2 is in universe, that can't be right
<Amaranth> python2.4-libxml2 is in main
<pef_aw> bye !
<keyes> hello
<keyes> hello siretart slomo_
<slomo_> hi keyes
<keyes> I was thinking about a thing
<ajmitch> hi
<keyes> we don't have the right to redistribute RealPlayer, but you (Ubuntu/Cannonical) if you ask maybe they can allow you
<keyes> You just give more customers to their
<crimsun> we could also just provide an installer akin to multiverse's msttcorefonts
<crimsun> and flashplugin-nonfree
<keyes> crimsun:  ?
<ajmitch> crimsun: I believe there is one
<ajmitch> and I believe that the general policy is no ubuntu-specific licenses which we can't grant to the users - might not apply for multiverse, but it does for main/universe
<keyes> I'm speaking about an agreement between Ubuntu and Real
<keyes> to ditribute Real into Multiverse
<crimsun> that's precisely what ajmitch is talking about.
<ajmitch> "Must not be distributed under a licence specific to Ubuntu. The rights attached to the software must not depend on the program's being part of Ubuntu system. So we will not distribute software for which Ubuntu has a "special" exemption or right, and we will not put our own software into Ubuntu and then refuse you the right to pass it on."
<ajmitch> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing
<ajmitch> as applies to main & restricted, so by extension that's probably multiverse as well
<Amaranth> how can we have ati and nvidia drivers then?
<Amaranth> i thought you couldn't redistribute them
<crimsun> because we -can- distribute those
<crimsun> both ATI and Nvidia explicitly allow that
<Amaranth> everyone can?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: because ubuntu doesn't have a special agreement
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> then how come no one does? :P
<crimsun> Mandriva does, no?
<ogra> SuSE and redhat do ...
<Amaranth> hmm, maybe it is just debian that doesn't
<ogra> yup
<crimsun> Debian's rightly strict
<keyes> ok
<Amaranth> last time i used anything else was 2002
<ajmitch> Amaranth: http://ftp.egr.msu.edu/debian/pool/non-free/n/nvidia-modules-i386/
<ajmitch> that's for debian
<keyes> Mandriva don't distribute 3d drivers in the free ISOs
<keyes> but they are in commercial packs
<keyes> this is a "buisness plan"
<ajmitch> and we won't have a commercial ubuntu version
<ajmitch> there can be ubuntu-based distributions, which aren't ubuntu
<keyes> I know
<keyes> this was just an idea
<keyes> (a bad idea I see)
<ajmitch> there's plenty of things we'd like to be able to do :)
<keyes> :p
<keyes> also we are distributing realplayer (even if we can't) in the PLF repository
<ajmitch> that's PLF
<ajmitch> we're not free to break copyright :)
<ajmitch> redistribution terms generally fall under copyright rather than just an EULA
<keyes> ajmitch:  I know
<ajmitch> hm, I'd better not forget to throw my ubuntu tshirt in the suitcase :)
* \sh doesn't have a ubuntu shirt...trying to print a "MOTU" shirt tomorrow
* ajmitch has his one from UDU
<ajmitch> a shame we didn't have time to get MOTU shirts for all the guys who'll be there :)
<ajmitch> \sh: duck is winning by a narrow margin
<ajmitch> on the fridge :)
<\sh> ajmitch: well...I knew about marks "Here be Dragons" ,-) but when he has a "Dragon" as icon ;) why not using kde as main desktop ;)
<ajmitch> oh because noone uses kde ;)
<keyes> I prefer Dragons than Duck! Duck has "influenza" in Europa
<slomo_> keyes: hehe... good reason for using the middle english translation of dapper ;)
* ajmitch preferred dragon
<Amaranth> just not a green dragon
<ajmitch> I think I need to run out & grab some breakfast before I leave
<keyes> Why not a Panther
<keyes> This is much an africal animal
<Treenaks> keyes: Pansy Panther?
<keyes> hum :)
<keyes> the pink panther ...
<slomo_> apple will sue us ;)
<Amaranth> tawny tiger!
<siretart> hi keyes
<keyes> hi siretart how are you?
<ajmitch> hello siretart
<siretart> keyes: I'm in a pub using wlan ;)
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<Amaranth> "brownish orange tiger"
<Treenaks> ajmitch: lonely lion ?
<Treenaks> lovely lion?
<keyes> siretart:  you don't have a beer to drink?
<Amaranth> leaping leopard
<ajmitch> Treenaks: why me?
<Treenaks> ajmitch: you're suggesting things right?
<Treenaks> oh wait
* Treenaks shuts up
<ajmitch> no
<Treenaks> ajmitch: you need to teach me to read next week
<ajmitch> ok
<xhaker> Hi
<Treenaks> d000d
<siretart> keyes: sure, just needed to check something
<keyes> ok ;)
<siretart> keyes: we are going to ski in france in january ;)
<keyes> you are lucky
<keyes> Mirno and I have snow but no mountains :p
<Mirno> keyes: ywhat the ... ?
<Mirno> ah
<Mirno> huhu
<keyes> Mirno:  on a de la neige mais pas de montagnes :p
<keyes> 8-)
<Mirno> kzoui oui
<Mirno> keyes: merci je parles mieux anglais que toi je te rappels, je pigeai juste pas pourquoi tu disais a
<Mirno> Kaloz_: eyou didn't come to the barbecue
<Mirno> oops
<Mirno> keyes: you didn't come to the barbecue
<keyes> <private>m'en fou j'ai 17.5 de moyenne en anglais pour l'instant mouhaha</private>
<Mirno> keyes: that's desapointing :)
<keyes> you don't have teel me what
<keyes> tell*
<slomo_> please talk english :P
<Mirno> keyes: <private>c'est mme honteux vu le niveau des questions :)</private>
<Mirno> keyes: please go pv fore <private> :) lol
<keyes> and i go stick SCALP posters in few minutes
<Mirno> keyes: ok. Wana go to the linux62 AG or not finally ?
<spayne> haven't seen bddebian for a while
<keyes> Mirno:  when?
<Kyral> Someone just put a copy of a fortune cookie on my door that read "If you don't program yourself, life will program you"
<Mirno> spacey: what's dbdebian ?
<Mirno> Kyral: you have geeky neighbours
<Kyral> Mirno, I think it was because they know I'm a CS Major :D
<slomo_> Kyral: that's a miracle... start a big, great project ;)
<Mirno> Kyral: what's CS acronym for ?
<Kyral> Computer Science :D
<Mirno> Kyral: oh, I'm sorry for you
<Mirno> :p
<Kyral> Ouch....that one stung
<Mirno> Kyral: just kidding sorry
<Kyral> So was I
<Kyral> I hang out in multiple Linux channels and am trying to become a developer, I know what I am ndoing :D
<Mirno> Kyral: RUUN RUUUN damn you before you become a developper .. insanity isn't far from it
<Mirno> Kyral: look at me, i'm insane
<Mirno> HAHAhAHA
<Mirno> I apologies for my little crisis.
<Mirno> I'll try to not do that again.
<slomo_> hehe
<Mirno> i'm sorry I need to get repent myself to Saint TUX
* Mirno is away : repenting to Sain TUX
* ajmitch wishes he could be a cool developer ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: u r the coolest ;)
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> I can't compete with the german MOTU team
<siretart> we have a german team? ;)
<ajmitch> the collective :)
<\sh> lol
<siretart> :)
<ajmitch> I think >50% of the MOTU work done comes from .de
<siretart> there are many germans, but that much?
<siretart> the number seems a bit high to me
<\sh> siretart: it is ;)
<siretart> oh
<siretart> :)
<ajmitch> ogra, dholbach, \sh, siretart, slomo_, etc
<slomo_> and sistpoty... but that are all? or did i forget someone? ;)
<ajmitch> yes, sistpoty too..
<siretart> mbreit?
<slomo_> ah, right...
* ajmitch needs to move to .de ;)
<slomo_> why? it's only countries... doesn't matter anyway ;)
<ajmitch> my suitcase still seems far too empty
* Kyral wonders if he should create a webserver just to hold his backported packages...
<crimsun> oh no, not the 'b' word
* Kyral hides
<ajmitch> yes, the 'b' word already
<ajmitch> although calls for that started about 6 weeks ago
<Kyral> Yah yah, I'm trying to help NOW
<\sh> Kyral: NO NO NO BACKPORTS PLEASE !
<Kyral> ???? Why not?
<\sh> Kyral: Backports are evil...if you want to help, ping jdong
<Kyral> He hasn't been around
<\sh> Kyral: write a mail to ubuntu-backports ml
<Kyral> I know the right way to do them....and I'm using a Breezy PBuilder...
<\sh> Kyral: or send me a mail to sh@sourcecode.de and I'll talk to Mez durin mez to get u involved in ubuntu-backports
* ajmitch is so happy to have tools like bzr for offline development ;)
<Kyral> ty
<Kyral> I figure it would be a good thing to get an intro to packaging
<\sh> s/mez/UBZ/
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> :)
<crimsun> hehe, I caught that, too
<Kyral> I'll be there for the first day ;P
<\sh> lol
<\sh> I just heard a very good idea from the german loco team for a fair in december
<\sh> "Make A Photo With A MOTU"
<ajmitch> haha
<\sh> well...
<ajmitch> the (in)famous MOTUs!
<\sh> "Take A Photo With A MOTU"
<\sh> and get money for it *lol*
<slomo_> lol
<slomo_> who gets the money? we? ;)
* \sh rotfls 
<\sh> slomo_: the german loco team for german motus ;)
<\sh> slomo_: MOTUS are all Creative Common licensed
<\sh> btw...
<\sh> welcome juliux he's the one who had the idea
<Kyral> I plan to take loads of pics at UBZ ;P
<juliux> thxs \sh
<\sh> juliux: so what u need? naked pics of MOTUs or just "meet and greet" pictures?
* \sh laughs 
<juliux> \sh, hm
<Kyral> Damnit \sh why did you put that in my MIND!
<Kyral> I have an exam tonight!!
<Kyral> Jeez man.....
<slomo_> \sh: we are? ;)
<juliux> \sh, i take every thing i can make to money :-D
<\sh> slomo_: sure....MOTUs are opensource ;) and open minded ;)
<slomo_> \sh: but i don't want to share my deepest secrets with everybody :(
<\sh> slomo_: oh...yeah..we need an exception in the CC ,)
<\sh> stop
<\sh> no
<\sh> ways
<\sh> juliux: it's a really good joke :)
<Kyral> \sh: I sent you an email
<\sh> Kyral: k
<siretart> \sh: when do you arrive in fr?
<\sh> siretart: 11:45 or something
<slomo_> juliux: so was this idea for real or just a joke? ;)
<\sh> juliux: I'll do it for linuxtag in essen
<\sh> juliux: but only with girls ;)
<\sh> just for the fun of it ;)
<\sh> siretart: when is your flight from nuernberg?
<slomo_> \sh: ah, i plan to get there too :)
<\sh> juliux: u have 2 motus ;)
<\sh> hihihi
<siretart> \sh: I arrive at FR at 10:30
<slomo_> siretart: you go to UBZ? have fun there :)
<\sh> siretart: ok..so I'll give u a ring on your mobile
<siretart> slomo_: thanks :)
<siretart> \sh: you still have my number?
<\sh> siretart: order the bier ,-)
<siretart> \sh: will do ;)
<slomo_> and drink a beer for me too ;)
<\sh> siretart: 017297..
<siretart> hhhehe
<siretart> \sh: right!
<\sh> hmm...
<siretart> :)
<\sh> lets try
<siretart> oh, its off atm
<siretart> no battery, I think, wait
<siretart> no its empty, sorry
<\sh> "Sie sind verbunden mit der Vodaphone mailbox von >>Rheinhard Tartler<<" ... ,-)
<siretart> \sh: try again
<ajmitch> hehe
<siretart> ah, okay, in the mean time I found an adapter
<slomo_> fuck... my first failed-to-build upload to dapper... and it was a main package ;) someone needs to fix tetex :/
<\sh> hehee
<\sh> siretart: it was loud :)
<siretart> \sh: it is over here ;)
<\sh> siretart: but it works with from vodaphone to vodaphone ;)
<siretart> \sh: do you happen to know where to check if an s55 works in canada?
<siretart> it is "triband"
<\sh> siretart: siemens?
<siretart> yepp
<\sh> siretart: should be on siemens webpage..
<\sh> siretart: but I'll bring two cells with me ;)
<siretart> they tell me it's "triband"
<\sh> siretart: both are triband ;)
<siretart> okay
<\sh> siretart: so u can use one if your's not working
<siretart> \sh: boah, great! thank you! :)
<ajmitch> ok, time to go offline, will reattach screen when I can ;)
<\sh> siretart: all for one, one for all :)
<ajmitch> see you in canada
<\sh> ajmitch: have a good flight :)
<siretart> cu ajmitch!
<siretart> have a good flight!
<slomo_> ajmitch: have fun at UBZ :)
<\sh> ok...going to bed...compiling python-qt3
<\sh> cu tomorrow
<Nafallo> ehm
<Nafallo> why compile things in bed?
<spayne> Nafallo: what ever turns you on :)
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> I don't compile the kernel anymore
<spayne> Nafallo: if you have dreams about GCC, that's your business ;)
<Nafallo> maybe \sh still doh ;-)
<Nafallo> nope, not GCC. the kernel :-).
<Nafallo> s/doh/do/
<spayne> anyone alive?
<dredg> spayne: in general terms, yes. someone is alive.
<spayne> is mythtv and mythgame broken atm in Dapper?
* zyga is alive as well but plans to go to bed
<dredg> dunno
<spayne> where are multiverse bugs stored?
<dredg> malone i would imagine
<schweeb> is mako still the one taking care of CoCs and ubuntite status?
<spayne> schweeb: no
<spayne> schweeb: it is done through launchpad
<schweeb> is he taking care of membership status?
<schweeb> I'm supposed to be a member, and ubuntite, but nothing in launchpad currently :-/
<dredg> the stuff in launchpad is user configurable
<dredg> you can sign the CoC and upload it to launchpad
<dredg> it will cover the rest
<schweeb> yes.  I sent my CoC into mako months ago though, was hoping I didn't have to do all this again :(
<dredg> ah, i did the same about a year ago
* schweeb counts...
<dredg> and then a couple of months ago i went onto launchpad and did it all again
<schweeb> yea, probably a year ago
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-02
<schweeb> before hoary release, sometime
<dredg> same as me then :)
<dredg> but i hit launchpad a while back and uploaded the signed coc, ssh keys and some other stuff
<dredg> which reminds me, the wiki and launchpad thinks there's a few of me. i need to get them merged
<schweeb> yea, that's cause they did a bunch of auto-imports
<schweeb> from diff sources
* schweeb finally finds his GPG key
<tigger^> schweeb: let me guess. it was in a safe place?
<tigger^> :)
<schweeb> yea, in my old laptop, sitting on my shelf in under my TV
<Nafallo> :-)
<schweeb> there, got it to at least say I'm a ubuntite :P
<schweeb> malone's the main universe bug tracker now, right?
<Nafallo> not main, but universe yes :-)
<schweeb> you know damn well what I meant :P
<Nafallo> no, you got me confused :-)
* schweeb tries to figure out who to poke about getting his membership status fixed
<Nafallo> schweeb: an admin :-)
<schweeb> kamion, mako, and elmo all haven't been active for a while on IRC, so...
<schweeb> hey ogra
<ogra> ho schweeb
<Nafallo> ogra: ! :-)
<schweeb> hrm, how does one view only universe bugs in malone
<schweeb> ogra: I'm settin off to do some work now!!!
<ogra> cool !
<Nafallo> ogra: I think hughsie might want you in -devel :-)
<Nafallo> atleast earlier.
<schweeb> is there even a way to view ONLY universe bugs in malone?
<schweeb> or should I search for ones assigned to MOTU?
<ogra> Nafallo, i already told him, i'm out of time
<ogra> but thanks for reminding
* schweeb kicks malone
<schweeb> RequestExpired
<schweeb> A server error occurred.
<schweeb> arrrrrghhhh
<Nafallo> ogra: oki
* schweeb decides to drink alcohol until he figures out how to use malone well
<Cashel> just a quick heads up, it seems the gnome-btdownload package is bugy/broken ... version 0.0.22 on the authors site isnt... might wanna update it....
<Nafallo> Cashel: thanx for the heads up. I'll prepare a debdiff and send it to some random main-dude :-)
<marcin> hi ppl
<marcin> I want to create package that contains rnc files (Relax NG Schemas)
<marcin> and I what path shoud I use to install these schemas...
<marcin> there is /usr/share/sgml and /usr/share/xml but rnc schemas aren't smgl and also not xml...
<marcin> any suggestions?
<Cashel> Nafallo: np :)
<Nafallo> Cashel: main-devels applied lots of changes, so I gave it to them through a bug :-)
<Cashel> yeah, I've been scratching my head a bit since the 13th, heh
<Cashel> you guys will probably hate me, but outside of synaptic I dont see any difference in breezy... someone in #ubuntu was saying how much different gnome 2.12 looked... I dont see any different except for the available panel add-ons, heh..
<dereks> anyone here program with gtk-sharp?
<marcin> Cashel: you are right
<marcin> Cashel: you have to look very carefully to find out the difference
* Cashel nods
<marcin> Cashel: propably this http://www.gnome.org/~davyd/gnome-2-12/ article could help you
<Nafallo> :-)
<Cashel> marcin thanks :P
<marcin> Cashel: ;>
<Cashel> any of you folks use qemu / vmware , etc?
<Cashel> wondering is vmware is any fast... win 2k3 under qemu is mind numbingly slow...
<Cashel> s/fast/faster/
<schweeb> vmware is decently fast
<marcin> Cashel: ubuntu-motu folks use ubuntu software not win 2k3 ;)
<schweeb> heh
<schweeb> dereks: I have a little bit
<marcin> ehhhhh I think that I need to decide myself
<marcin> but anyway - is /usr/share/xml/rnc a good path for rnc schemas?
<dereks> schweeb: how come i can't get the gtk.filechooserbutton to work
<dereks> are we going to get gtk-sharp 2.6 added anytime soon?
<dereks> in dapper
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> Hows this for an experiment
<Kyral> I take the debs for Mezzo, Metatheme, and Orchestra and try to install them :D
<tseng> metatheme is still useful?
<Kyral> I guess so
<tseng> its sort of built into gnome these days
<Kyral> Orchestra depends on it
<tseng> since 2.6 or something
<tseng> orchewhat?
<Kyral> Its a part of SymphonyOS
<tseng> sigh
<Nafallo> dapper doesn't work as a pbuilder atm?
<crimsun> no
<Nafallo> *sigh*
<crimsun> well, it actually depends what your b-ds are
<Nafallo> debhelper ;-)
<crimsun> yeah, it'll be fixed/built soon
<Nafallo> cdbs? :-)
<Nafallo> I hope things work after the damn debhelper :-)
<Nafallo> would be fun to have gcc and family at some point also ;-)
<crimsun> well a metric assload has been thrown at the buildds in addition to the sid sync, so slowness is expected
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> they are still not finished? :-)
<crimsun> gcc-4.0 is finished on three arches
<crimsun> failed pretty hard on amd64
<Nafallo> baah. don't count ia64 ;-)
<Kyral> Well, it worked, but not well
* Nafallo makes his first upload to dapper :-)
<tseng> wow, even I beat you
<crimsun> Nafallo: nice :-)
<tseng> and I dont do anything
<Kyral> Okay, how do I kill the panel at the top of XFCE?
<Kyral> the taskbar ;P
<tseng> you can only hide it afaik
<Nafallo> dbus -> libdbus ;-)
<tseng> so ive been told
<Kyral> or kill it ;P
<Kyral> just pop open system monitor and BAM! ;P
<tseng> sigh
<tseng> thats not very persistant
<Kyral> It is when I save the session
<tseng> oh!
<Kyral> where does XFCE keep its config files in ~/ anyway?
<tseng> tried .config/ ?
<crimsun> ~/.config
<tseng> dont fret
<tseng> freedesktop will tell you where to put your files
<tseng> here is a good mental note for you all
<tseng> dont start a window manager from the console and then ^Z it
<tseng> you'll be sorry
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Yah I like the iconbox better than the taskbar :D
<tseng> (openbox --replace &) == better
<tseng> iconbox rocks
<tseng> you dont see all the open crap
<Kyral> Hmm, Rox-Filer or XFFM?
<tseng> Thunar
<Kyral> Do they have a Deb for it yet?
<crimsun> yes, it's at os-works
<crimsun> don't use it yet
* Kyral falls down
<crimsun> jani and I haven't merged it properly yet
<Kyral> Crimsun, I just "hijacked" Mezzo from SymphonyOS into Ubuntu
<crimsun> (although several people actually do use it with breezy apparently)
<Kyral> I think I can handle a nonstandard package or two ;P
<tseng> i hate both rox-file and xffm
<Kyral> mmm, drop shadows...
<Kyral> Transparency...
<crimsun> I like rox-filer, but xffm has got to go
<Kyral> and with both of those active its STILL faster than GNOME + MetaCity
<crimsun> thunar rules them both despite its infancy
<Kyral> then can I install it?
<tseng> NOPE
<crimsun> you're free to do whatever you want, Kyral
<Kyral> I'm impulsive and bored. I installed Mezzo successfully on Ubuntu
<Kyral> Anyone know what font the titlebar is using in this pic? http://www.xfce-look.org/content/pre1/23060-1.png
<crimsun> download the theme and look at the file
<Kyral> good point...
* Nafallo builds dapper-things with breezy cause dapper is broken :-P
<Kyral> Got it nm :P
<Kyral> so can anyone reccommend a good terminal emulator that isn't GNOME Term?
<crimsun> xterminal
<crimsun> there are a bunch, though
<crimsun> rxvt-unicode, mlterm, etc.
<Kyral> What about XFCE4-Terminal?
<Nafallo> apt-cache search quake :-)
<crimsun> I think you need to read xterminal's description.
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> xterminal removes xfce4-terminal
<crimsun> we'll kill one or the other
<Kyral> Now if I could just find out why the panel disappears randomly...
<Riddell> how do I find the current debian standards version again?
<crimsun> packages.debian.org/debian-policy
<crimsun> (3.6.2.1)
<Riddell> crimsun: ah, thanks
<crimsun> np
<hub> there is no libiberty in Ubuntu?
<YokoZar> Ok, winesetuptk is still in universe
<YokoZar> I thought I sent an email asking for this to be removed a long time ago
<YokoZar> All it does is break stuff now
<YokoZar> Who can remove stuff from universe?
<Kyral> remove....why remove...
<YokoZar> Let's put it this way: all the package does is break wine configurations and confuse users.  It doesn't setup anything anymore.
<YokoZar> It was obsoleted like 2 years ago.
<Kyral> ??????
<YokoZar> Oh, I'm talking about package winesetuptk
<YokoZar> Didn't notice you just came in
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I think you need to file a bug
<Riddell> YokoZar: elmo can remove (move to morgue) packages
<YokoZar> Riddell: thanks
<Riddell> I'm not sure if there's a list somewhere of packages to be morgued
<Kyral> mmm
<Kyral> New kernel!!
<YokoZar> We had a wiki page at one point
<YokoZar> And I thought winesetuptk was there...
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<hew> exit
<zyga> hello
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<_Tonio_> morning
<thesaltydog> what are these errors I got in pbuilder:  warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (0) ???
<siretart> morning folks!
<siretart> thesaltydog: I ignore them, they don't matter that much
<zyga> morning siretart
<siretart> hi zyga
* zyga needs to fix hotplug scripts borking on scanner
<StrikeForce> anyone on?
* Mortas_ looks around
<Mortas_> yep
<StrikeForce> I'm still having issues with dbus since I"ve upgraded to breezy
<StrikeForce> and I haven't found any bugs in bugzilla
<StrikeForce> on shutdown I'm getting an error saying it can't find hald.pid
<StrikeForce> its hard writing all the info down on shutdown :(
<StrikeForce> its under the /etc/dbus and one of the files there on line 49 its calling to kill hald which is fine however its not finding it on my system
<Mortas> if you manually try to stop the service instead of shutting down you might get the same error with a bit of luck
<StrikeForce> yeah I used to
<Mortas> so you can paste it in a bug report
<StrikeForce> but I dont' anymore
<Mortas> ah ok
<thesaltydog> siretart, yes, but they really get me confused as they can hidden other important warnings...
<StrikeForce> I just tried a dpkg-reconfigure on both hal as well as dbus
<StrikeForce> but that didn't fix it :(
<Mortas> well I can't really help you with this because I don't have a breezy release box anymore, could you file a bug with as much info as you have?
<StrikeForce> yeah I'm just reading the 20hal script
<StrikeForce> and its showing the right location of hte pid?
<StrikeForce> this is what has got be confused
<siretart> thesaltydog: the error comes from dpkg-buildpackage, it doesn't find the userid as expected from the host system in your chroot
<thesaltydog> siretart, that was what I suspected.. Some more words on the pbuilderHowTo would be greatly appreciated..:-)
<StrikeForce> is this correct kill -9 $(< $PIDFILE) || true
<siretart> thesaltydog: just add them, someone with more clue will correct it when something gets wrong or confusing
<StrikeForce> its coming up with a possible error under vi?
<dholbach> "morning"
<StrikeForce> dholbach, morning
<dholbach> hi StrikeForce
<StrikeForce> can someone on a breezy box tell me what dbus files they have under /etc/default?
<StrikeForce> who takes care of dbus?
<siretart> hi dholbach!
<dholbach> hey siretart
<dholbach> StrikeForce: pitti and daniels, i guess
<StrikeForce> ahh k
<StrikeForce> I've got a few questions just wondering whether its my system or if its a bug
<spayne> mornin' all
<spayne> has anyone managed to get a dapper pbuilder workign?
<Mortas> I got a dapper running, but haven't tried pbuilder yet
<spayne> \sh: have you managed to get a dapper pbuilder running?
<\sh> moins
<\sh> spayne: yes...create a breezy one and update to dapper ;)
<spayne> \sh: just when i try and create a dapper one, it fails
<spayne> E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/dapper
<\sh> spayne: well...could be that the debootstrap script is not in place
<Mortas> get a new debootstrap first
<\sh> spayne: yes...
<\sh> u should download the new debootstrap from dapper and install it by hand
<\sh> I think kamion fixed it the last days
<spayne> \sh: now that's good thinking :)
* zyga invites everyone interested in hardware related discussions to #ubuntu-hardware
<\sh> spayne: but the easiest way...create breezy one, and update pbuilder to dapper ;)
<selinium> Hi spayne :)
<Mortas> wouldn't apt-get -t dapper install debootstrap work?
<\sh> should work, yes
<spayne> i'm just not running dapper on this machine yet
<spayne> = main laptop
<Mortas> for people like me who are to lazy to search for a package on an archive :)
<spayne> = want to see how Dapper pans out :)
<Mortas> got my wrecking box here set up with dapper, no issues yet
<Mortas> sadly enough
<Mortas> break something already, I wanna fix stuff :)
<dholbach> i guess the buildlogs have enough broken stuff :)
* siretart is updating dapper pbuilder on tiber
<Mortas> dholbach: see previously mentioned point of lack of docs about that on wiki :)
<highvoltage> siretart: your nick always reminds me of a prodigy song.
<Mortas> or at least I haven't been able to find a starting spot for fixing dapper breakage
<siretart> highvoltage: yeah? which one?
<siretart> update successful
<highvoltage> siretart: firestarter
<dholbach> Mortas: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
<spayne> \sh: you are my hero
<Mortas> dholbach: yay :)
<Mortas> now where did you find that?
* \sh is just p*ssed...
<Mortas> I hate asking questions
<\sh> someone not right in his head enabled my office phone divertion to my mobile.
<siretart> highvoltage: great song :)
<\sh> since this morning I got 5 phonecalls
<spayne> \sh, i take it your at Montreal?
<\sh> now I will go to the office and kick someones ass ;)
<\sh> spayne: yes
<spayne> \sh, how is it?
<\sh> spayne: oh no...I'm flying tomorrow
<\sh> spayne: ogra is already there
<siretart> ok, lunch
* \sh is brb 
<\sh> or better bbl
<Mortas> hmm loads of ppc breakage
<Mortas> time to give that ibook a use
<StrikeForce> is there a need to purge pbuilder's cache before upgrading to dapper or will that automagically get done
<drbyte> so, out of curiosity, how does one get "involved" with the ubuntu project?
<StrikeForce> drbyte, nag people :( although I'm not involved so I'm not sure whether I can offer any constructive advice
<drbyte> StrikeForce: heh. right.
<dholbach> drbyte: depends on what you want to do...
<drbyte> dholbach: hi there. you may remember me ;-)
<dholbach> drbyte: if you want to be a package maintainer, then #ubuntu-motu is just the right place :)
<siretart> drbyte: try to do some work. If you see something that could be improved, suggest improvments. There are a lot of areas which could need improvement, I think
<siretart> our wiki pages made big progess
<StrikeForce> anyone know if browser-bookmarks-menu is getting worked on?
<StrikeForce> I've just about finished it
<StrikeForce> if a required package is python-gnome2 do I need to add gnome to it if python-gnome2 has a dependancy of gnome?
<StrikeForce> lol hope that makes sense
<Mortas> that will be fixed by the dependencies python-gnome2 has
<StrikeForce> yeah thats right
<StrikeForce> I'm just questioning whether it needs to be added or not
<Mortas> thankfully not, otherwise you'd need to add xorg and everything gnome depends on as well :)
<Mortas> that's the whole idea of the dependency system
<StrikeForce> yeah I know just making sure
<StrikeForce> cause I"ve seen some big dependancy chains
<Mortas> build it in a clean pbuilder environment, it will shout if it misses stuff
<StrikeForce> yeah I have
<StrikeForce> the building isn't the issue
<StrikeForce> the running of it is
<StrikeForce> its only 1 python file
<StrikeForce> and a config file
<Mortas> ah runtime depends
<StrikeForce> yep
<Mortas> you should be able to use 'pbuilder login' to get in the chroot, install the package and see if it grabs everything you need to run it
<StrikeForce> I've tested it in breezy and it works fine
<Mortas> well in that case you should put it on revu I guess
<pef> someone can confime that Standards-Version should be set to 3.6.2 instead of 3.6.2.1 ?
<StrikeForce> can't atm unmet deps Mortas
<StrikeForce> although if someone wants to revu it
<StrikeForce> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=830
<StrikeForce> :)
<dholbach> pef: 3.6.2 is fine, only the first 3 digits matter
<StrikeForce> and rufus has been there since breezy froze :(
<dholbach> pef: the last one is just for typos and the like
<StrikeForce> hopefully someone have another look at it
<dholbach> pef: dpkg -l debian-policy
<pef> dholbach: I just wanted a confirmation, thanks !
<Mortas> StrikeForce: I'll give it a try once I get this ppc box running
<dholbach> de rien
<StrikeForce> Mortas: thanks
<StrikeForce> Mortas, there are unmet deps in dapper obviously so pbuilder builds fine but installing it I can't install the unmet deps
<_Tonio_> dholbach: i've been asked for putting 3.6.2.1, that's why we wanted the information with pef
<_Tonio_> just to be sure all revuers are waiting for the same thing
<dholbach> 3.6.2.1 is not incorrect, but simply not necessary
<dholbach> (that's what i've been told half a year ago ;)))
<_Tonio_> dholbach: okay.
<slomo> the last digit is only for cosmetical changes
<StrikeForce> dholbach: do you know if I'm allowed to edit the universe candidates page to advise that one package is in REVU?
<StrikeForce> dholbach: never mind I've just finished editiing it and its worked :)
<dholbach> StrikeForce: sure, thanks for taking care
<slomo> is someone of you using mc (midnight commander)?
<slomo> i uploaded a version with utf8 support some minutes ago... would be nice if you can tell me if it works for you too :)
<dholbach> slomo: every 2 months :)
<dholbach> but i can give it a spin, once it's there
<pef> SloMo: hello, do you know "mc-light" ?
<slomo> pef: no... what's that?
<slomo> give me url,etc please ;)
* dholbach only knows M.C. Lyte :-p
<Yagisan> slomo: I use mc and utf-8
<Yagisan> slomo: * and need
<slomo> Yagisan: perfect :) you can probably use the dapper package without modifications or recompilation on breezy...
<slomo> just wait until 4.6.1-1ubuntu1 is in the archives
<Yagisan> slomo: no worries - I've been waiting a long time for this
<pef> SloMo: http://mc.linuxinside.com
<slomo> if something doesn't work as before blame me ;) i got a patch for utf8 support with slang1... and ported it to slang2
<slomo> pef: thanks... will take a look
<pef> SloMo : look a the screenshots, very nice !
<pef> SloMo: question about mc, is it normal that display is weird when using it under virtual consoles ? (ctrl+alt+Fx)
<Yagisan> slomo: some time ago debian broke tab completion with a security update
<Yagisan> slomo: it never got fixed
<slomo> "there is no possibilities to compile it without some X parts, like Glib." ok, i stop reading the mc-lite page :P
<slomo> pef: what do you mean with weird?
<Yagisan> slomo: I doubt that you can do worse then that
<slomo> Yagisan: tab completion in mc?
<Yagisan> slomo: yes, it used to have tab completion like bash
<slomo> Yagisan: uh, when? i used it the first time years ago... and there was nothing like tab completion since then ;)
<dholbach> Glib has nothing to do with X
<pef> SloMo: when  scrolling on list of files, disply is not refreshed, so you have garbage on the screen
<slomo> dholbach: that's why i stopped reading that page ;)
<dholbach> right
<slomo> pef: hm, works for me
<pef> SloMo: I'm using FR locale, maybe this is the problem ?
<slomo> pef: fr_FR.UTF-8?
<pef> SloMo: yes
<slomo> pef: ok, i'll test it
<Yagisan> slomo: pre-sarge on debian it worked
<slomo> Yagisan: hmm... do you know which patch it is?
<Yagisan> slomo: nope, apparently M-tab is also a shortcut
<Yagisan> slomo: but in my gnome terminal that doesn't work, as X intercepts that
<slomo> pef: works fine here... hmm
<Yagisan> slomo: mc command list http://twiki.med.yale.edu/twiki/bin/view/Tools/MidnightCommanderShortcuts
<fujisan> dont whois me please :(
<slomo> Yagisan: thanks
<pef> SloMo: I'm taking a screenshot with my camera :)
<fujisan> lol
<slomo> fujisan: why? :P
<fujisan> :P
<dholbach> slomo: maybe to take pictures of the installer :)
<slomo> dholbach: ?
<dholbach> slomo: erm... nevermind
<slomo> dholbach: ok :)
<dholbach> slomo: i thought you were asking pef "why?" :)
<pef> I don't understand something with launchpad...I have assinged some bugs to me, but I can't see them when I click on my account on "bugs"
<slomo> dholbach: nope... he will make a photo of mc ;)
<fujisan> i'm an operator :P
<slomo> pef: btw, the problem you have could be utf8 related... i had something similar before without the utf8 patch... maybe the working-with-utf8 version fixes it
<Yagisan> slomo: it seems ESC+tab gets tab completion working again. /me wonders why that wasn't listed anyware
<slomo> Yagisan: yes, esc+tab works here too :)
<slomo> thanks
<pef> SloMo: http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/9648/dscn02391pn.jpg (big picture)
<Yagisan> pef: I get that too
<slomo> pef: wrong terminal font or because of no utf8 support before... please retest with the version uploaded soon
<slomo> Yagisan, pef please tell me when this is fixed later :)
<pef> SloMo: I have distribution default fonts settings... will test your version :)
<Yagisan> slomo: I too use breezy defaults, perhaps main should ship a nice unicode font for us
<slomo> well, it works with utf8 chars for me
<fujisan> :p
<Yagisan> fujisan - what's the deal with asking me to go to #ubuntu-banned
<fujisan> lol
<fujisan> :)
<fujisan> joke
<pef> SloMo : new version for dapper or breezy-updates ?
<slomo> pef: dapper... it's a fairly big change... maybe something for backports later
<Yagisan> fujisan: not funny
<fujisan> haha
<slomo> pef: but the binary should work without recompilation on breezy
<fujisan> "when nature calls we all shall drown..."
<fujisan> :)
<slomo> fujisan: part of the lyrics of a good song by tiamat :P
<fujisan> :P
<pef> dholbach: do you know if someone is working on UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath ?
<dholbach> erm, no
<dholbach> pef: Mortas wrote it
<pef> Mortas: :)
<pef> dholbach: tanks, I haven't found his irc nickname
<pef> Mortas: hello, are you working on UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath ?
<slomo> dholbach, pef, Yagisan: built fine on x86 and ppc... amd64 didn't build because of some dependency problems... will be given-back
<slomo> please write bugreports to malone or mail@slomosnail.de
<slomo> i won't be online until tuesday evening
<pef> dholbach: hello Daniel
<Mortas> pef: when I see packages that don't confirm yes
<Mortas> however not active at the moment
<Mortas> just finished ppc installation (which I'm working on now) to go take a poke at the failing builds
<Mortas> but feel free to pick it up if you want to
<Mortas> best thing to do imho is to just check packages that you're working on anyway, because there are quite a lot of them most likely
<pef> Mortas: does this problem justify a new version ? or just make this changes with anothers ones more important ?
<pef> ok :)
<Mortas> ooh bootsplash on ppc looks hella ugly
<Mortas> well on my powerbook atleast
<keyes> I need help to make a Enemy Territory package
<keyes> The sound don't work if don't run this command as root (don't work with sudo) before running the game echo "et.x86 0 0 direct" > /proc/asound/card0/pcm0p/oss
<keyes> how can I do it (add it to bootmisc.sh is not very clean)
<Yagisan> keyes: you also need to add export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.2 to the et shell script
<Yagisan> keyes: that workaround only needs to be done on systems that don't have hardware mixing on the audio card
<Yagisan> keyes: the esddsp workaround should be ok on i386 (assuming ubuntu stays with esd), but won't work with amd64
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<Mez> siretart: ping
<Fuji-san> ?
<siretart> Mez: pong
<siretart> Fuji-san: huh?
<\sh> re
<Treenaks> \sh: wb
<\sh> I hate my bank
<Treenaks> ?
<\sh> Treenaks: waiting for my bloody salary
<Treenaks> argh
<siretart> wb \sh
<\sh> re siretart
<\sh> I hate to fly with knowing that my account is empty
<siretart> fuck.. :(
<\sh> and everybody else has their salary already on the account...
<\sh> so its my bloody stupid bank
<Treenaks> we have one bank like that in .nl
<Treenaks> takes up to 9 days(!) for people to get their money
<\sh> Treenaks: let me take a guess...a daughter of the german sparkasse? ,-)
<Treenaks> \sh: no, not that one
<\sh> Treenaks: well...the company transfered the money on monday...4 days for one transfer normally...
<siretart> Mez: you pinged me earlier? whats up?
<\sh> and I have to buy some stuff for the flight I'm really really *censored*
<\sh> does somebody know if I can get money with my ec card in canada?
<Yagisan> Fuji-san: 
<siretart> ok, I'm on my way home now, cu later
<chillywilly> lalala
<dholbach> how about a MOTUDocumentation BOF? :)
<tritium> Wow, your conference starts tomorrow.
<sivang> tritium: conference starts nnow?
<tritium> sivang, as far as I remember.  I thought Saturday was the first day.  I'm not going, so I could be wrong.
<sivang> tritium: right
<\sh> Treenaks: sunday the conf is starting
<\sh> argl
<\sh> tritium: i mean ;)
<tritium> \sh, oh, my mistake
<rbelem> hello people
<dholbach> hi rbelem
<tritium> hi rbelem, dholbach
<dholbach> tritium: hey michael :)
* tritium will be with all of you at UBZ in spirit
<rbelem> can you indicate a book or something like to get deeper my knowledge in C? My C knowledge level is only academic. I was trying to fix some bugs, but my knowledge don't allow me go on.
<rbelem> :'(
<siretart> dholbach: what exactly do you want to discuss at MOTUDocumentation?
<dholbach> siretart: the wiki pages and how people get into "the motu thing"
<dholbach> siretart: i got a lot of mails and requests on irc to tell people "what to do" and "what it's all about"
<rbelem> hi dholbach, tritium ;-)
<siretart> dholbach: this would be a very good idea, since this would help to attract more potential motus!
<dholbach> i'm fine with that
<dholbach> but i think we can do better
<\sh> ok...what do i need
<siretart> yeah
<\sh> mvos wifi router packed
<\sh> sivangs book packed
<tritium> It would be good to lower the entry barrier for new folks, and folks that are trying to get re-involved
<rbelem> dholbach: i listed at my wiki page some links to people get into "the motu thing"
<\sh> toshiba laptop and power supply packed
<\sh> mobile charger packed
<dholbach> rbelem: oh cool, which one is it?
<\sh> 2 power plug converter packed
<rbelem> dholbach: RodrigoBelem
<siretart> I'm also thinking about what to bring
<\sh> camera charger
<dholbach> tritium: i guess at the moment, we're all a bit confused ourselves, so it's hard to get people into "working"
<tritium> dholbach, I can understand that.
<dholbach> do you think teams would make it easier?
<dholbach> motu subteams
<\sh> hp nc6000 will be packed later
<tritium> I can only speak for myelf, but I would need some focus/direction, either from a subteam, or a mentor, or a leader who can delegate a bit
<dholbach> rbelem: wow, that's cool
<\sh> multiple socket will be packed as well later
<\sh> passport packed
<dholbach> tritium: i think i will go out have a smoke and think about it :)
<\sh> clothes packed
<\sh> I think I'm ready
<tritium> dholbach, be safe :)
<dholbach> merci :)
<rbelem> dholbach: i see that there is many wiki pages, but nothing that link then
<dholbach> tritium: and thanks for telling your views on it
<\sh> siretart: I'll go just now to my bank and check on the cash machine if the money is there...I'm really really p*ssed
<tritium> dholbach, thanks for listening too
<dholbach> rbelem: absolutely... i'd like to have kind of a "round trip" on the wiki, showing people around, telling them all our instruments/processes/tools/...
<dholbach> rbelem: it's the beginning of a new release cycle, so this is the perfect time to DO IT :)
<rbelem> dholbach: i can help you to write it
<rbelem> ;-)
<dholbach> rbelem: COOL :)
* dholbach dances the conga around rbelem 
<tritium> dholbach, if there were well-documented processes/procedures for such things as merging, etc., we could pitch in whenever we had a spare hour or two
<rbelem> heheheeheh
<rbelem> =)
<dholbach> tritium: absolutely
<hub> hi
<dholbach> hey hub
<hub> I have some license question
<hub> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=738
* dholbach runs away
<thesaltydog> dholbach, have you ever heard of complains concerning ppc perl installation in breezy?
<dholbach> thesaltydog: no
<hub> thesaltydog: was working fine on my laptop
<thesaltydog> It seems that the stddef.ph file can't be found on perl 5.8.7... I do not have a ppc so I can't test
<dholbach> hub: can't you get the upstream author commenting on that?
<siretart> sh: good luck!
<hub> dholbach: I haven't asked him. so ok, will do that
<hub> I have plenty of time now
<rbelem> dholbach: can i start today night? i have to work at afternoon (here 12:19 now)
<dholbach> hub: it's the easiest... if people feel uneasy about "some files are under different licences", i can understand that
<dholbach> rbelem: sure, that'd be awesome... i'll think about it and make additions or discuss it with you
<hub> make sense
<rbelem> dholbach: cool ;-)
<\sh> k guys...going to bed....cu tomorrow (at least some of u) in .ca
<crimsun> 'night
<dredg> dholbach: good morning
<\sh> siretart: will call you when I'm hitting ffm ground :)
<dholbach> dredg: re :)
<siretart> gn8 \sh_away
<LaserJock> welcome back tritium ;-)
<tritium> LaserJock, heh, thanks.  My laptop decided it wanted to reboot for some reason ;)
<LaserJock> bummer
<LaserJock> lol, again?
<tritium> yep, heh
<LaserJock> overheat?
<tritium> no idea
<linlin> Hi Im wondering if I can request a few apps to be added to the repos.
<linlin> I dont know if anyone is here right now to hear this so ill jsut say the names: CTorrent and kftpgrabber
<LaserJock> linlin: you might wat to take a look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
<linlin> kthx
<Riddell> kftpgrabber is in revu
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-03
<Riddell> I'll make a mental note to review it
<linlin> ctorrent is an easy build, so its probally easy to add
<dfarning> Any package suggestions for a new Ubutu builder I got checked out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates I like and use jedit it that too tought for first go round?
<dfarning> I've done some rpm packaging of java stuff but it was a big pain in the butt!
<Kyral> Java is a pain to begin with
<Kyral> oh wait....I'm crashing tonight ;P
<dfarning> I'm interested in jedit because it is the editor of choice at my local tech college for all the intr classes
<dfarning> I thought if I can insure that all the schools apps are present I'll have a  better time getting them to dual boot the computer labs;)
<minghua_> dfarning: does jedit build with a free java stack?
<dfarning> minghua_: I have not yet tried it. I do know  there is a native jedit in fc4 so it can be done.
<crimsun> probably similar to how eclipse-platform was handled
<minghua_> dfarning: that sound encouraging
<dfarning> very similar native .so are built and distributed while exensions can be download and under gcj
<minghua_> I don't know much about java, but I suppose if it can be built with free java stack, it has a good chance
<minghua_> a lot of people are trying to build java stuff for debian as well
<minghua_> so maybe asking there first would be wise
<dfarning> I'll give it a shot.  I'll see what I can find out at debian.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ping?
<hub> I have a question about the kernel source package
<hub> because I'm evaluating the packaging a useful tool
<hub> sysprof
<hub> that requires it
<crimsun> linux-source-2.6.12 (Breezy), linux-source-2.6.10 (Hoary), linux-source-2.6.8.1 (Warty)
<hub> yep but that install a tar.gz
<hub> or something
<hub> /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.12.tar.bz2
<crimsun> yes, untar it
<crimsun> that's the entire tree with the Ubuntu patches applied
<hub> yes, but I'm thinking packaging wise
<hub> sysprof needs an extracted kernel tree
<crimsun> it needs the entire tree?
<crimsun> not just the headers?
<hub> apparently
<hub> not that sure
<crimsun> that would be fairly nasty to package
<hub> just the headers apparently
<crimsun> oh, that's not bad then
<crimsun> you can just roll a source package, ala oprofile-source, fuse-source, alsa-source, etc.  Basically, *-source
<crimsun> The user will apt-get install foo-source and module-assistant
<hub> linux-kernel-headers package does not match the linux-kernel package version
<crimsun> linux-kernel-headers is not what you think it is
<hub> ah
<crimsun> you want linux-headers-$(uname -r)
<crimsun> l-k-h is part of the toolchain
<hub> right
<hub> I'll try that
<hub> which compiler is used to build the kernel?
<hub> gcc-3.4?
<crimsun> yes
<robertj> heya all. Dia defaults anti-aliasing to off, but it should probably be on. Additionally, there probably isn't a reason to even have the menu item there to disable it. Any thoughts?
<robertj> more than anything, I want to believe that deep down that option has a purpose
<LaserJock> robertj: have you filed a bug report?
<tritium> hi all
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<tritium> What's up, LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> not much, trying to figure out some python-apt and working on a presentation for Tues. at school
<crimsun> enjoying your Friday evening, Mike?
<tritium> Yeah, how about you, crimsun?
<crimsun> not bad. Sifting through some packaging. Yourself?
<robertj> LaserJack: no, was asking first
<robertj> Laser: just as to whether it was really even an issue
<robertj> more interested really. From what I can tell that checkbox is purely historical from when it was to toggle on the "experimental crashy aa support" in 2002
<crimsun> that's a question best posed to upstream
<robertj> prolly
<LaserJock> robertj: you can file a bug at https://launchpad.net/malone
<tritium> okay, I'll ask upstream if they're enjoying their Friday evening ;)
<LaserJock> then people can reject it or accept it
<crimsun> tritium: :p
<tritium> crimsun, took the dog for a hike in the mountains
<crimsun> excellent!
<tritium> It was nice to get away from work today.  :)
<LaserJock> we got today off for Nevada Day, whoohoo!
<tritium> nice
<LaserJock> it was nice, but I had to get that grant proposal in and all the administrative staff were trying to leave
<crimsun> man, you guys are lucky
<LaserJock> crimsun: how so ?
<crimsun> LaserJock: "Nevada Day"?
<crimsun> we must not have any state pride or something :p
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I am originally from Montana and we didn't have anything like that either
<LaserJock> I think maybe they are trying to compensate for something ;-)
<tritium> I always thought Purdue was trying to compensate for something with their "world's largest drum"...
<LaserJock> lol
<tritium> So glad I never have to hear "Boiler Up" again...
<\sh> moins
<crimsun> moin
<crimsun> how's Montreal?
<hub> who is in mtl right now?
<\sh> i fly in a couple of hours
<crimsun> \sh: ah. Have a good flight!
<tritium> \sh, are you the one who made tee shirts?
<\sh> tritium: i wanted...but no chance to do so...because of no time to much work in the last weeks
<hub> \sh: see you there
<tritium> \sh, ah, okay.  I can relate
<\sh> tritium: i thought after dapper I could do some fun stuff...but my company meant to have new ideas and new projects...:(
<crimsun> well, enjoy UBZ nonetheless ;-)
<tritium> \sh, :(  I also read your email that you can't take personal electronics to work.  I can also relate to that...
<crimsun> tritium: yeah, I spent a summer in a similar position with Argonne
<crimsun> though no doubt security at your lab is probably much more strict now
<tritium> crimsun, yeah.  We're not even trusted with cell-phones, iPods, or anything, really.
<\sh> tritium: well yes..this is the biggest disadvantage :( everything which looks like computer external cdburner etc. are not allowed anymore...nonetheless I can bring in my cam...
<tritium> crimsun, you're going to UBZ too?
<crimsun> tritium: nope, have lecture obligations
<tritium> crimsun, ah, right
<tritium> \sh, that's interesting that they'll allow a cam
<\sh> tritium: no...they didn
<\sh> 't allow
<tritium> oh
<\sh> they've not forbid the use of a cam ,)
<tritium> ah
<tritium> be back later...
<chillywilly> lo
<\sh> moins chillywilly
<chillywilly> \sh: nice wiki ;)
<\sh> chillywilly: which wiki?
<\sh> uh ah..
<\sh> dang...now I understand ,-) too early in the morning
<dfarning> No love for a native jedit.  Gcj is still missing several swing methods that are needed.
<dfarning> It will likely be awhile before they make into Ubuntu  gcj 4.1 or 4.2
<dfarning> Is it useful / allowable to include packages the require either blackdown or sun java?
<Kyral> Is there like a kernel option I need to enable to allow the kernel to open and close my CDROM drive?
<Kyral> like the drive door?
<Kyral> tray
<Kyral> thing
<crimsun> dfarning: no, it's impossible atm
<crimsun> dfarning: cf. Azureus.
<crimsun> Kyral: you could use 'eject'
<Kyral> well, I mean for like K3B ;P
<Kyral> and it complains sometimes, the kernel, at boot
<dfarning> crimsun: is Azureus available somewhere, I don't see it in breezy or dapper?
<crimsun> dfarning: that's why it's not available -- it depends on a commercial jre, which illustrates the situation that jedit is in
<crimsun> dfarning: you might want to work with debian-java to get it working with gcj
<Kyral> Couldn't we compile Azureus? I thought Java could be compiled into a binary independent of the JRE now
<dfarning> crimsun:  The changes are too extensive to be practical atm
<crimsun> Kyral: I don't understand what you're saying.
<Kyral> I thought that they found a way to compile Java code into a binary that didn't need a JRE to run
<dfarning> Kyral:  not all java functions are available yet in classpath
<Kyral> ahh
<Kyral> I don't know much about Java so
<dfarning> somthing like 75% of the swing.text,* are missing
<Kyral> Means nothing to me pal ;P
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<Kyral> I'm gonna assume that means that like a lib is missing ;P
<dfarning> Something like a good sized chunk of gtk;)
<Kyral> lol okay
<Kyral> I'm prolly not gonna learn Java unless I have to
<Kyral> I'd rather learn Python
<LaserJock> Kyral: me too
<Kyral> I just need a good resouice
<dfarning> The schools stress java because several of the local banks and insurance companies use it
<Kyral> Hey LJ hows it going?
<LaserJock> Kyral: fine. you?
<Kyral> eh okay
<Kyral> College is running me into the ground
<Kyral> At least Ubuntu Love is on Sunday :D
<LaserJock> I can't wait to get out of grad school some days
<LaserJock> Undergrad didn't seem so busy to me but maybe that's my old age showing ;-)
<Kyral> I'm learning PHP in one of my classes
<LaserJock> Kyral: cool, I wish I had taken some programming classes. I just have to learn it on my own
<Kyral> I'm a CS Major, it comes with the territory
<Kyral> Ironically its a business class I'm learning PHP in, a Senior level one
<Kyral> The funny thing is this is prolly 80% of the class first time doing any programming on the level of PHP (as opposed to HTML)
<LaserJock> PHP seems to be pretty popular these days
<Kyral> Me, coming right from C++, I just learn the syntax of PHP and BAM!
<Kyral> though the fact that you don't specify what data type a varible is kinda throws me
<LaserJock> well, since I'm a scientist I got to learn Fortran first ;-)
<Kyral> *shudder*
<Kyral> Fortran...
<LaserJock> we still use it for virtually everything
<LaserJock> although I am trying to move more towards Python
<Kyral> I figure I'll learn Python and Perl next
<Kyral> since PHP was derived from Perl which was derived from C++
<LaserJock> my boss pretty much uses Fortran and Perl exclusively with the occasional C if we need to talk to instruments
<\sh> Kyral: what?
<Kyral> \sh: Huh?
<LaserJock> Perl was before C++ I thought
<\sh> 04:43 < Kyral> since PHP was derived from Perl which was derived from C++
<Kyral> og
<Kyral> Perl was derived from C
<Kyral> I think...
<\sh> perl never is never was derived from c++
<\sh> neither from C
<Kyral> Hmm, one of my professors told me that
<Kyral> then what is Perl derived from?
<\sh> it was build, because C and other high lvl languages were to complicated for text operations
<\sh> and php never was/is derived from perl
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> Remind me to smack my professor ;P
<LaserJock> how much you paying for thos classes ;P
<\sh> php (personal homepage processor) was build, because the author was in need of a dynamic generation of webpages, but not as CGI
<Kyral> I don't care what they came from, I just like'em ;P
<Kyral> \sh, you know a good online resource to learn Python?
<LaserJock> Kyral: apt-get install diveintopython ?
<\sh> Kyral: drpython and the python.org pages
<\sh> http://de2.php.net/history
<\sh>  PHP succeeds an older product, named PHP/FI. PHP/FI was created by Rasmus Lerdorf in 1995, initially as a simple set of Perl scripts for tracking accesses to his online resume. He named this set of scripts 'Personal Home Page Tools'.
<Kyral> Yah so you could say that PHP was decended from Perl ;P
<LaserJock> not operationally, but historically ?
<\sh> hmm..better to say in was inspired by perl but not derived :)
<Kyral> yah
<\sh> the concepts are completly different...same applies to python and c++
<Kyral> Isn't Python the preferred language for Ubuntu now?
<\sh> yes..mark is a python fanatic :)
<Kyral> Hey if its good enough for the SDBDFL(Did I get that right?) its good enough for me ;P
<\sh> SABDFL :)
<\sh> anyways...time to shower
<LaserJock> SABDFL, I love that
<Kyral> Can Python be byte compiled into a binary?
<Kyral> to function without an interpreter?
<dfarning> there have been a few efforts but none work yet
<Kyral> See, I hear the phrase "interpreted language" and I get images of the JRE
<Kyral> which is the main reason I dislike Java
<LaserJock> what would be the point?
<Kyral> of?
<LaserJock> having Python be byte compiled
<crimsun> people might argue performance
<Kyral> Wouldn't need its interpreter
<crimsun> frankly, I think ironpython is neater
<Kyral> the example I make is that Azureus has a memory footprint of ~ 30 MB
<LaserJock> I would say that the Python interpreter is different from the JRE
<Kyral> the JRE that is needed to run it has a memory footprint of about 200 MB
<LaserJock> python is on a lot of linux computers by default and It is really easy to get going on Windows
<LaserJock> and if performance is a problem then there are tricks to make it faster (using C underneath) or just using another language
<LaserJock> I don't know though, but this seems to be a ongoing argument in the scientific computing circles
<Kyral> Actually you CAN use the Boost libs to include Python code in C++ code and vice versa
<LaserJock> Kyral: I use scipy for scientific stuff and it uses Fortran and C and my programs are only 1.5 - 5 times slower than pure Fortran/C
<LaserJock> compared to >100 slower for pure Python
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> Actually I saw an option in the kernel to allow you to insert any language into the kernel
<dfarning> I've had good luck writing the code in python quick and easy, then rewriting the bottle necks as c modules
<LaserJock> yeah, I don't know if any language is going to work perfectly for everything. That is why I use python for scripting and fortran for computationally intensive stuff and C when I need to make an actual program
<LaserJock> but then I don't have very complicated needs. Mostly some number crunching with data file analysis
<Kyral> I guess the best option is to learn a bunch of core languages
<Kyral> Like C++, Python, Perl, PHP
<Kyral> Frankly I love C++ and I think tis possible to do anything with the language, but I realize there are better tools out there
<Kyral> I should really get around to learning GTK or PyGTK
<LaserJock> python is the closest I have found so far for a language that does everything. Mostly because I can include Fortran code if I need to for things that python doesn't do well
<dfarning> start with gtk the documentation for pygtk is still pretty poor
<Kyral> yah one of my friends is learning it and is quite upset with that point ;P
<LaserJock> yeah, me too. I don't know C++ and barely any C so some of the gui stuff is hard for me to find documentation for
<Kyral> C++ is a good foundation I found
<Kyral> I was learning about PHP Arrays and the first thing I thought was "Oh crap.....pointer time"
<Kyral> Then the prof said "They are automatically resizeable" and I was like "SCORE! Vectors!"
<dfarning> from my experience you can't really understand the pygtk bindings until grasp the why and how of gtk
<dfarning> pygtk does some hand waving that can be confusing
<LaserJock> dfarning: good food for thought, maybe I will try looking into gtk first
<Kyral> If you ask anyone who knows my coding style, they will tell you that I dispise C Arrays and think they are old things that should be discarded in favor of Vectors
<Kyral> "Why use an Array when you can use a Vector"
<dfarning> cause in c they are really really fast
<Kyral> I don;t use C ;P
<Kyral> I use C++ :P
<LaserJock> Kyral: have you been to the ubuntuforums Programming section?
<Kyral> yah sometimes
<Kyral> Okay laundry done, ANIME!
<LaserJock> they have some good flame wars sometimes
<Kyral> I generally helpout on the Desktop Support and ABT forum,s
<Kyral> New User Network Mentor :D
<LaserJock> there are some good Java vs. C++ vs. Python kindda
<LaserJock> wars
<Kyral> but now I'm watching Ai Yori Aoshi :D
<LaserJock> well, we wouldn't want to get between you and your anime ;-)
<Kyral> You have no idea how true that statement is ;P
<LaserJock> surely not, I've never watched any anime
<Kyral> Only few people are important enough to me to tear me away from anime ;P
<LaserJock> sounds like me and Ubuntu
<LaserJock> my wife is always telling me to get off the computer
<dfarning> Are the skype distubution terms as found on http://www.skype.com/company/legal/promote/distributionterms.html acceptiable to Ubuntu
<\sh> dfarning: no
<\sh> if they were, we would distribute it already
<LaserJock> \sh: do you know where there are any places to find cool packaging scripts or apt interaction scripts?
<\sh> LaserJock: what are "cool packaging scripts"?
<dfarning> I am going through the wish list looking for a good package to start working on looks like you all got most all the good (easy)ones:
<LaserJock> \sh: well hard to say exactly. I would like stuff to get info about the apt cache. I am trying to compare the list of installed Universe packages to what I have installed
<bhuvan> dfarning: its true :) i faced the same problem too
<dfarning> bhuvan: got any suggestions for me.
<bhuvan> look into migration breezy->dapper tasks
<bhuvan> someone can point a sample bug in bugzilla/malone ??
<dfarning> Is there a wiki on the migration
<Amaranth> dfarning: Why? Is the wiki down?
<LaserJock> right now I think it is mostly bugfixing but I'm not sure
<dfarning> I am new to Ubuntu and have not really figured out how to effectently find stuff on the wiki
<LaserJock> dfarning: what are you looking for?
<dfarning> Info on helping with the breezy -> dapper migration
<LaserJock> well you can always go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo but right now I don't know if there is much beyond bug fixing and new packages
<dfarning> I get bound up in what is in the wiki, the forums, launchpad, or bugzilla;)
<LaserJock> right now I think that there is the Merge-O-Matic where packages are being synced with Debian sid
<dfarning> thanks i'll start there
<Amaranth> LaserJock: aye, that'll run for awhile, then we'll make sure everything is synced properly, then bugfixing.
<\sh> LaserJock: MOM is not running
<Amaranth> And new not-from-debian packages go in that whole time too.
<Amaranth> \sh: It's stopped already?
<\sh> Amaranth: it didn
<\sh> 't run
<\sh> for dapper
<LaserJock> \sh:manual merge only?
<Amaranth> \sh: I could have sworn they fired it up early this week.
<\sh> what u see now in bugzilla is the rest of mom universe from breezy
<Amaranth> Wait, no, they were just working on removing packages that came from sid but aren't there anymore.
<\sh> Amaranth: but i'll ask keybuk when hes starting
<Amaranth> like php3
<\sh> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> but MOM will be working sometime in the future?
<Amaranth> After UBZ, I'd guess.
<\sh> depends
<\sh> if keybuk fixes mom yes
<Amaranth> They're going to figure all that out at UBZ.
<LaserJock> hmm, darn scroll mouse ;-)
<Amaranth> At least that's what I've understood from the mailing list.
<LaserJock> my chat window is going nuts
<LaserJock> piece of Windows crap
<LaserJock> so, if it is not fixed, will there be a replacement? or will it be left to the MOTU and wannabes?
<\sh> Amaranth: u r not attending ubz?
<Amaranth> \sh: I can't.
<Amaranth> \sh: Work, school, and a lack of funds.
<\sh> Amaranth: sad :(
<\sh> yeah know that feeling
<LaserJock> how long is UBZ?
<\sh> the ubuntu section 1 week
<\sh> the launchpad section 1 1/2 week
<LaserJock> wow, that would be hard to get away for that long
<\sh> LaserJock: most of the motus will stay only until the 6th..so first week
<whiprush> hi \sh
<\sh> hey whiprush good morning :)
<whiprush> I won't be making it this time. :( I was hoping to meet you.
<whiprush> attend a smoker's bof for me with ogra and dholbach though
<\sh> whiprush: read your entry :(
<whiprush> well, it'll make it that much easier to go to the next one. :)
<\sh> whiprush: whereever it is :)
<whiprush> nothing interesting ever happens in the states.
<whiprush> I'm sure it will be wherever it's most expensive and far away from me, heh.
<\sh> whiprush: but I have/had many problems during the last weeks...they wanted me to stop going on vacations, because of our projects in the company
<whiprush> ouch.
<whiprush> your job looks interesting
<\sh> whiprush: and somehow yesterday everybody had their salary on the account but not me...so i'm flying now without a cent in my pocket to canada
<whiprush> that huge display NOC-looking thing looked neat.
<\sh> and hope that my salary is on my account on monday latest
<whiprush> yeah I don't get paid until monday myself.
<whiprush> yeah, I feel you man.
<\sh> well...borrow some bucks from siretart or ogra during the weekend...I'm really frustrated because of this..
<\sh> and my problems with take offs and landings don't make things better
<whiprush> lots of stops?
<\sh> whiprush: flying from cologne to frankfurt and from frankfurt to montreal
<\sh> whiprush: i'll take some photos...and post them during my stay in montreal on my gallery and send a link via blog :) so u won't miss anything :)
<dfarning> Hey, just found  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile.  Would adding .desktop files be a good way to learn the mechanices of the package rebuild process?
<\sh> yes
<dfarning> cool, I'll get crackin'
<LaserJock> dfarning: just make sure that there really isn't a correct .desktop file first. That list is old (Hoary), I think.
<Amaranth> dfarning: And they're easy to do, you can basically copy and paste another app's file and do some light editing.
<LaserJock> I have been meaning to talk to someone about the UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile. Do we really need to have all of those in the menu?
<LaserJock> I personally think that the Debian menu is incredibly cluttered and anti-productive
<LaserJock> but maybe that is where Amaranth is here to save the day ;-)
<\sh> LaserJock: thats why we need a .desktop file :)
<Amaranth> .desktop files can be turned off, tucked away somewhere, and generally managed better
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Just use smeg or alacarte to hide the entire Debian menu. :)
<LaserJock> \sh: but aren't we just moving stuff from the Debian menu to the ubuntu menu?
<\sh> LaserJock: debian uses the .menu style somehow...
<Amaranth> LaserJock: command line apps shouldn't get .desktop files, so not everything will be copied.
<LaserJock> I am just wondering if we fix UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile, will we have a huge mess on our hands?
<LaserJock> Amaranth: that is what I am talking about
<Amaranth> \sh: Someone wrote a script (I think it's in the menu package) that converts the Debian menu system into a .menu file and such.
<LaserJock> Don't we need to make some decision as to what to put into the Ubuntu menu?
<Amaranth> At least that was my understanding of it when I was talking to the guy that did it.
<\sh> Amaranth: lets see at ubz..
<\sh> well...I'm switching off now..pack the laptop in my bag...and lay down for some minutes..to calm down my stomach
<Amaranth> \sh: It's already done, it's how the Debian menu shows up as a submenu in GNOME.
<\sh> Amaranth: yeah..but i don't like the debian menu ,)
<LaserJock> \sh: have a good flight
<\sh> anyways...
<\sh> see u when i have connection in montreal :)
<Amaranth> \sh: Bye, have fun at ubz. :)
<Amaranth> Don't wear shorts!
<\sh> thx guys...
<\sh> heheh
* Amaranth wore shorts and a t-shirt today, walked to school when it was 39F out.
<Amaranth> That's pretty close to 0C for you metric folks.
<LaserJock> yeah, at my undergrad in Montana we had some Hawiian guys who would run out in their "skirts" and nothing else in the middle winter. Yikes!
<LaserJock> Amaranth: do you see my concern with UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile ?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Yeah, but most of the stuff in there is either a command line app (shouldn't have a .desktop file), useful, or geek stuff that probably won't show up for normal users.
<Amaranth> LaserJock: At least that's what I have in my Debian menu when it magically shows up after installing things.
<LaserJock> but if we are sending people in to make .desktop files won't that be a problem
<Amaranth> LaserJock: No matter what, we want that menu to never show up. :)
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Read what I said...
<LaserJock> right, but if we say go work on the list and the list has CLI apps then they will show up
<Amaranth> LaserJock: They don't get in without being accepted, unless a MOTU with upload rights is doing them.
<Amaranth> But that list seems to be left for newcomers to chew on.
<LaserJock> well, maybe I will put something on the wiki page to let people know that they need to think about what they adding to the menu
<Amaranth> Yeah.
<Amaranth> No CLI apps in the menu! :)
<LaserJock> Amaranth: is there a case were a CLI app would need a .desktop file? mime-type handling or anything like that
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Yuck. The day we need a CLI app to handle a mime-type is the day we've failed.
<LaserJock> that is what I would think but I just wondered
<Amaranth> And should all give up and find a new hobby.
<Kyral> Amaranth, the day we have failed is the day Linus uses Windows ;P
<Amaranth> Kyral: He already uses a PowerPC, we're slipping. :)
<Kyral> Yes but does he run Linux on it ;P
<bhuvan> iirc, he runs mac ?
<Amaranth> it's a powerpc, yeah
<Amaranth> but it'll never run OS X
<LaserJock> my boss is a die hard linux fan but he just recently got an iMac from the university and he seems fairly happy with it so far
<LaserJock> of course all he needs is fvwm, emacs, firefox, and acroread
<Amaranth> *shudder*
<Amaranth> one nice thing about OS X is their vfs layer is very low level
<Amaranth> fopen() works on http://, from what i've been told
<Amaranth> i'd like to see that in the linux kernel some day
<LaserJock> yeah, cool
<LaserJock> does anybody know how big the entire main and universe repository is?
<Amaranth> with source i think it's around 110GB
<farruinn> If I run a python program (solfege) and it throws a bunch of dependency warinings at me, I take it that package needs to be updated for use with Ubuntu's python?
<farruinn> s/dependency/deprecation
<LaserJock> Amaranth: dang, that's huge
<Amaranth> Ubuntu Distro Stats on breezy... 17902 packages, 1641 maintainers, 34780 MB installed size, 10804 MB compressed size.
<Amaranth> that's without source
<farruinn> that's main and universe, right?
<Amaranth> main, restricted, universe, multiverse
<Amaranth> at least afaik, the bot spit it out
<LaserJock> well, hmm. I want to make the list from UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile but I think I might need to download all of the .debs
<LaserJock> maybe not though
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<Amaranth> I think someone has a script that finds the packages and updates the wiki
<LaserJock> 10804 MB would be ok though
<Amaranth> ugh
<Amaranth> Microsoft threatens to pull Windows from an entire _country_ and their stock goes up.
<LaserJock> Korea right?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> their stock rose 68 cents
<Amaranth> that's just sad
<LaserJock> hmm, that just seems wierd
<dfarning> overall the market was up Dow Gains 172, Nasdaq Up 26 on GDP Growth
<siretart> morning
<LaserJock> evening ;-)
<crimsun> really early morning ;-)
<siretart> 7:30am over here
<farruinn> heh, that'd be really early for me ;)
<Treenaks> 7:30 here too :)
<Treenaks> Plane to UBZ in 7 hours, 20 minutes
<farruinn> I'm so excited, Montreal is only 2 hours away!
<LaserJock> 10:30 here and almost time to go to bed
* [Chameleon]  is jealous
<[Chameleon] > have fun, do lots of cool hacker stuff. make your moms proud!
<LaserJock> farruinn: that would be cool. I don't think I will ever get to go to a Ubuntu meeting
<hub> farruinn: montreal is here
<hub> :-)
<farruinn> I have school during the actual developer's conference, but I'm going for love day!
<farruinn> hub: you live in montreal? I'm going to school in Potsdam, NY
<Treenaks> farruinn: cool
<hub> i live in mtl, yes
<Treenaks> farruinn: want to be in a video? :)
<Treenaks> farruinn: http://foodfight.org/movies/Ubuntu%20Fanpeople/
* farruinn raises an eyebrow
<siretart> ok, my is on the way to the airport. cu soon!
<crimsun> bye
<farruinn> jeff has a really manic look on his face in the first frame of his video
<Treenaks> farruinn: yeah, he did it on purpose :)
<Kyral> night all
<LaserJock> gnight
<zakame> hi all
<LaserJock> hi
<zakame> wazup here?
<LaserJock> not much, a lot of people are heading to UBZ
<Treenaks> ANARCHY!
<Treenaks> *ahem*
<zakame> haha
<zakame> I suppose everybody's bringing their halloween costume :)
<Treenaks> zakame: nah :)
<Treenaks> I'm scary enough by myself
<zakame> hihi
<farruinn> I'm feeling defeated: I downloaded the debian source package for Solfege 3.0.2 and compiled/packaged it with no problem. When I try to install the resulting *.deb thought I get the error: "/var/lib/dpkg/info/solfege.postinst: line 27: /usr/bin/python2.3: No such file or directory"
<farruinn> this line in the postinst script is trying to run /usr/bin/python$PV but I can't find where $PV is being set
<farruinn> arg, please disregard that, I just found it
<farruinn> So what would have to happen for the current version of solfege (2.0.4) to be replaced with 3.0.2?
<crimsun> have you confirmed it works?
<crimsun> if so, I'll upload the new one
<crimsun> farruinn: yes? no?
<farruinn> I've found one bug, I'm looking to see if it's been reported upstream
<farruinn> I didn't find this bug, but it wasn't hard to fix
<farruinn> so, to make the package build and run correctly I modified a grand total of 2 files
<crimsun> farruinn: ok, debdiff please.
<crimsun> I just found a cdbs bug
<crimsun> simple-patchsys.mk, actually.
<crimsun> Debian's xfce4-terminal uses a patch with () in the filename, which nicely does nasty things.
<farruinn> sorry crimsun, but I don't have a lot of experience working on the developer side of packages. What exactly do you want me to do with debdiff?
<crimsun> farruinn: if you generate a debdiff, I'll inspect it and then upload 3.0.2
<farruinn> crimsun: want me to just e-mail this to you?
<dfarning> Would the best way to handle the UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile be to make a patch fiel and submit it to the ppackage owner via malone?
<Mez> lo all
<Nafallo> morning Mez :-)
<CaiN_SA> ajmitch,
<CaiN_SA> dude when you comming ?
<Mez> hey treenaks, not on your way yet
<Seveas> ping: mythgame needs a rebuild it depends on libqt3c102-mt instead of libqt3-mt
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> Mez: still at home, are you?
<Nafallo> ajmitch: http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/fspot_segfault.txt ;-)
<Nafallo> doesn't like to show my 3565 hidden amateur pornphotos :-P
<ajmitch> great, you broke it
<Nafallo> hehe
<zakame> hi all
<Nafallo> anyway, shower
<ajmitch> after so many hours on the plane.. I need noise around me, it's too quiet! :)
<zakame> hahaha
<ajmitch> my ears are seriously ringing after ~24 hours of flight time
<tseng> now you know how everyone felt at UDU
<ajmitch> yeah
<tseng> "death"
<ajmitch> it was only a nice short 3 hours for me
<tseng> the worst part about the flight for me was.. trying to get up to the bathroom
<tseng> and not being able to shower for a full 24 hours
<ajmitch> only 24 hours?
<tseng> around that
<ajmitch> that's the next thing I'll do
<ajmitch> after IRC of course
<tseng> oh man
<tseng> i was about to punch out the Vibe staffers until i could get into my room
<tseng> get a shower
<ajmitch> yeah I got in fairly quickly here
<tseng> i had to go to the park next door
<ajmitch> just unwinding before I go for the shower
<tseng> and join some aussies throwing candy at passersby
<tseng> and drinking rum and coke at noon time
<tseng> its a rough life down there
<ajmitch> oh yes
<tseng> the 42nd most bookmarked site on del.icio.us is... del.icio.us
<tseng> 2404 links
<zakame> ooh
<Riddell> who's aa in canadia?
<zakame> aa?
<freeflying> Riddellhi
<tseng> alcoholics anonymous
<Riddell> good morning freeflying
<zakame> ah
<zakame> thought was associate in arts :)
<freeflying> Riddell: It's night here :)
<freeflying> Riddell: I want to build skim in one package just now
<freeflying> for there are some problems to be solved
<ajmitch> hello CaiN_SA, Riddell
<ajmitch> CaiN_SA: where are you at the moment?
<CaiN_SA> im in cthe hotel
<CaiN_SA> ;)
<CaiN_SA> why ?
<ajmitch> right, I'm in my room at the moment
<ajmitch> I got in a bit over an hour ago
<CaiN_SA> lol
<CaiN_SA> but your ident sais
<CaiN_SA> you are in nz /
<CaiN_SA> ?
<ajmitch> nz, I know
<ajmitch> that's what screen is for
<CaiN_SA> ah ;)
<CaiN_SA> you also in this chinatown holiday in ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I haven't had a look round yet
<Riddell> everyone is, wouldn't be much of a conference if we were in different places :)
<ajmitch> some people are staying elsewhere
<CaiN_SA> ah i see
<CaiN_SA> btw
<CaiN_SA> i walked around outside
<CaiN_SA> 10000 million hotels
<CaiN_SA> conference center is accross the street
<ajmitch> oh good
<ajmitch> I got in a bit late, I wonder if I can still get breakfast
<CaiN_SA> dunno
<CaiN_SA> dont eat the pancakes
<Riddell> breakfast is until 10
<CaiN_SA> it tastes weird
<ajmitch> Riddell: then I'd better hurry :)
<ajmitch> where is it?
<CaiN_SA> by reception
<CaiN_SA> that chinese place
<CaiN_SA> i came in last night
<ajmitch> ok
<CaiN_SA> went strait to sleep
<ajmitch> 2nd floor?
<CaiN_SA> yeh
<ajmitch> do I need a voucher for this ppne?
<ajmitch> s/ppne/one/
<ajmitch> I'll find out, heading down there now if anyone wants to meetup :)
<Riddell> yes you do
<tseng> sounds like you are out a breakfast
<CaiN_SA> yeah
<CaiN_SA> ask reception for 1
<CaiN_SA> i like the free internet tho
<dereks> does anyone here use avahi?
<dereks> Lathiat: you around?
<Lathiat> dereks: sup?
<Riddell> ** #ubz for conference discussion
<Kyral> hey Mez
<Mez> hi
<Kyral> Wait....does Ubuntu Love start at 9 AM EDT or 9 AM EST?
<Kyral> because the time switch is tonight...
<crimsun> mm mythtv ftbfs on 2/3 arches due to old ffmpeg
<crimsun> hooray
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-04
<Mithrandir> hub: you joining us for dinner today?
<Riddell> there's dinner today?
<siretart> hi folks
<\sh> good evening from montreal :)
<\sh> huhu siretart..
<siretart> ;)
<blueyed> Wouldn't it be nice to to have an openssh-server package that has the chroot patch applied? or to have the patch applied to the main package? (http://chrootssh.sourceforge.net/)
<crimsun> blueyed: I don't think kamion is going to be too hot to apply it
<blueyed> But it's a great feature and such a small patch.
<blueyed> crimsun: would it be synced from debian?
<crimsun> blueyed: "it"?
<crimsun> just ask kamion, since he's the Debian maintainer, too
<blueyed> crimsun: apt-cache shows matthew.
<crimsun> for ssh?
<crimsun> ah
<crimsun> ask kamion, then
<Kyral> hey guys
<Kyral> Stupid question
<Kyral> but does UBZ start tomarrow at 9 AM EST or EDT?
<crimsun> the former, I assume
<Kyral> Okay, time changes get confusing
<crimsun> the new extension doesn't begin until 2007
<Kyral> It changes tonight
<crimsun> tomorrow.
<crimsun> 2 AM EDT->1 AM EST
<crimsun> for me, that is.
<Kyral> 2 AM on 10/30
<farruinn> crimsun: I've never done this before, so let me make sure I'm doing what you want.  You need the debdiff between the ubuntu 2.0.4 package and the 3.0.2 package I made, right?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> between the dscs
<farruinn> ok, I'll brb, I need to get to the ubuntu machine
<crimsun> farruinn: posted anywhere yet?
<farruinn> crimsun: sorry, like I said I've never done this.  One second and I'll give you a link
<farruinn> crimsun: http://www2.potsdam.edu/sprang31/solfege2.0.4-3.0.2.debdiff
<farruinn> crimsun: thanks for bearing with me, I hope that's what you need
<Kyral> SUNY is on I2?
<farruinn> I2?
<crimsun> yes, it is
<crimsun> nearly all US universities are on I2
<Kyral> farruinn, you go to SUNY right?
<farruinn> Kyral: yes
<Kyral> Your one of you IT people is married to President Collins, no?
<farruinn> I have no idea
<farruinn> (I take it that's the Clarkson president?)
<Kyral> Ja
<farruinn> oh wait... I work with a woman named Karen Collins, maybe her?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> Think so
<Kyral> what year are you?
<Nafallo> should something happen after I send mail to submit@bugs.debian.org?
<Nafallo> like the bug show up or something? :-P
<crimsun> eventually you'll get an ack
<minghua> Nafallo: yes, but there's usually a delay
<minghua> the cron job runs every 15 minutes
<Nafallo> ah, thanx :-)
<Nafallo> I thought I was stupid and can't even compile a good mail or something :-P
* Nafallo just read DebianPatchFeeding and felt guilty :-P
* Kyral scratches his head at the Wiki Language
<Nafallo> hmm
* Nafallo gives debian some patches. maybe we can shrink the delta.
<LaserJock> \sh: hi! are you in Montreal yet?
<Nafallo> \sh: morning darling :-)
<\sh> LaserJock: jepp
<LaserJock> sweet
<\sh> Nafallo: morning honey..:)
<Kyral> I should print out directions...
<Nafallo> \sh: I'm filing bugs on debian :-P
<LaserJock> \sh: is the money situation working out ok?
<\sh> LaserJock: after an adventure flight
<Nafallo> \sh: easier then I thought ;-)
<ajmitch> Kyral: you'll be here in the morning then?
<\sh> LaserJock: well...actually ogra is helping out...but i will change my bank after i will come back from ubz
<Kyral> ajmitch, yah driving in from Potsdam NY
* ajmitch just has the money problem of needing more of it ;)
<Kyral> I hope there is free food......
<Nafallo> ajmitch: don't we all? ;-)
<\sh> ajmitch: well...i'm really frustrated about this money shit...
<ajmitch> Nafallo: drinking BOFs might get expensive by the end of the week :)
<Nafallo> \sh: huh? something you haven't blogged about?
<ajmitch> reminds me that I should track planet more closely ;)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: ehm... what bird are you trying to make with those? :-P
<\sh> Nafallo: no...this is really a serious problem i have to solve first , and then i'll blog about
<ajmitch> Nafallo: the drunken antics of UBZ?
<Nafallo> \sh: ah. so what _is_ the issue (for those of us that can't wait for that)
<ajmitch> ssh is a little lagged from here :(
<Nafallo> ajmitch: :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: my bank is too slow..at least one or two days too slow
<\sh> Nafallo: normally the money should be on my account on friday..but this didn't happen
* ajmitch hopes he gets paid next week
<Nafallo> \sh: ouch.
<\sh> Nafallo: well..should be on my account on monday so i can pay everything back
<Nafallo> let's hope :-).
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> it's apache-restart-day today, right?
<Nafallo> ehm, I mean sunday
<Kyral> I guess there is a small delegation from Clarkson University and SUNY Potsdam going tomarrow ;P
<Nafallo> Kyral: where small is you? ;-)
<ajmitch> \sh: what problems did you have?
<Kyral> Actually is like 7 people from Clarkson (Check the Attendees list) and some people from SUNY
<LaserJock> ajmitch: do you know how the list on UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile is created?
<\sh> ajmitch: later...during drinking bof
<Nafallo> Kyral: well. I'm lazy ;-).
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> \sh: ok, I think I might skip the drinking BOF tonight though
<ajmitch> LaserJock: nope :)
<\sh> ajmitch: oh ok...so tomorrow i'll explain everything
<Kyral> I'll have a navy blue shirt that says "Clarkson University Department of Mathematics and Computer Science" on it, happy ;P
* ajmitch will be the one collapsed in a corner somewhere
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> If I don't get caffine into me soon after I wake up I will be too
<Nafallo> ajmitch: fixed my f-spot bug yet, btw? ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: nope
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I imported the photos I've taken and now it crashes on startup ;-)
<\sh> ajmitch: come on...siretart and i are the ones with the bad jetlag :)
<ajmitch> \sh: you know how long it took me to get to montreal :)
* Nafallo loves using dapper :-)
<Nafallo> it's really funny to fool jenny that I've upgraded her computer also ;-)
<Nafallo> \sh: what's the plan with gajim's debian/ubuntu delta?
<Nafallo> :-)
<ajmitch> hey koke
<ajmitch> at the hotel now, I guess?
<\sh> ajmitch: yeah :) but the best way to get over it, is to have some fun with the other tired guys :)
<ajmitch> heh
<Kyral> Aww I feel left out. I'm just sitting here in my dorm room reading the Jargon File
<Kyral> :P
<\sh> Nafallo: well...leave it...we will have always a delta...just because of the "human" default theme for ubuntu
<\sh> Kyral: where r u?
<koke> ajmitch: yeah
<Kyral> Clarkson University
<Kyral> 2 1/2 hours away from Montreal
<Nafallo> \sh: hehe, well. that's a small delta compared to now ;-)
<ajmitch> koke: great, just arrived here?
<\sh> Kyral: oh...
<koke> \sh: I'm thinking on going directly to sleep now
<\sh> Nafallo: lets leave it ... we will have 0.9 coming in 2 months
<koke> ajmitch: yeah, this is weird. I got a suite
<ogra> koke, youre here ??
<koke> ogra: yes
<ajmitch> koke: lucky you, want to swap? ;)
<ogra> koke, the rooma are all this big ;)
<\sh> koke: hmmm....how long was your flight?
* Kyral goes to shwoer
<ogra> *rooms
<Nafallo> \sh: hmm, that means we should roll 0.8.2+svn till then? ;-)
<ogra> koke, cool :)
<Nafallo> ogra: hi! :-)
<Kyral> Early wakeup time tomorrow ;P
<ajmitch> koke: what room # ?
<\sh> Nafallo: somehow we could do this :)
<ogra> Nafallo, hey
<koke> \sh:too much, 7h form london
<koke> 320
<Nafallo> \sh: extra testing etcetera :-)
<\sh> koke: oh come on...we had 8 hours flight, 10 hours stay in the plane
<koke> btw, is whiprush here?
<ogra> he was planning to
<ajmitch> ok, so you're down on the 3rd floor with some of the others..
<\sh> koke: and 6 hours jetlag :)
<ogra> dunno if he's already here
* ajmitch is on 5th floor, 503
<\sh> he's not coming
<Nafallo> ogra: did we ever have a list of things that needs merging? :-)
<koke> \sh: 7 + 2 from madrid + 2 in train :)
<ajmitch> he's not? :(
<\sh> ajmitch: no he mentioned it on his blog
<koke> what about some beer in the bar??
<ajmitch> koke: 3+12+2.5+4.5 for me :)
<\sh> koke: well...there is a problem...fabbione :)
<koke> \sh: what's the problem
<\sh> koke: he wants to go to super sexe
<\sh> koke: join #ubz
<koke> w00t?
<ogra> Nafallo, we should get a lit from KEybuk soon, seems MOM could work for universe... since we didnt respect the freezes
<ogra> *list
<Nafallo> ogra: ah, oki :-)
<Nafallo> I bug debian about stuff they should take before we can sync stuff atm :-)
<ogra> no promises though
<Nafallo> but I only knew two packages by heart :-P
* Nafallo gave gazpacho a grave-bug ;-)
<Nafallo> +patch :-P
<Nafallo> anyway, 2:50 here or something.
<Nafallo> I should sleep
<Nafallo> gnight all
<ogra> night Nafallo
<Kyral> I'm so nervous about tomorrow
<ajmitch> why?
<Kyral> I'm afraid I'm gonna make on idiot of myself
<ajmitch> don't worry
<ajmitch> we all do that
<Kyral> Yah, but it seems to happen a LOT more often with me
<ajmitch> heh
<pietrus> may i ask a question about ubuntu development?
<pietrus> packages from debian are syced automatically to universe or motus do it manually?
<ajmitch> automatic until upstream version freeze, if we haven't previously modified it in ubuntu
<Amaranth> pietrus: Unless the ubuntu package has any changes it happens automatically at the start of a development cycle.
<TiMiDo> ey people
<LaserJock> hi
* Treenaks is in the hostel, about to go to sleep
<Kyral> goodnight all and cya at UBZ tomorrow :D
<zakame> hi all
<_Tonio_> hi
<zakame> is there a policy from ubuntu or debian about packaging www servers? if so, where can I find it?
<_Tonio_> what do you mean by "packaging www.servers?" ?
<_Tonio_> there is one for debian, I think ubuntu's one's the same....
<_Tonio_> let me check if I have the link here.....
<zakame> I'm packaging lighttpd atm, and I want to know what to do during the {post,pre}{inst,rm} scripts
<zakame> I'd also like to know if what stuff a www server can put in /var/www
<_Tonio_> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<_Tonio_> you might find what you're search for there... but good luck for the reading.
<zakame> okies thanks :D
<_Tonio_> I must say I don't have a simple answer to your question.
<_Tonio_> zakame: no pb
<zakame> hmmm, would it be feasible to split lighttpd into lighttpd and liblighttpd-mod-* like what apache2 does?
<Lathiat> zakame: yeh
<Lathiat> proably a good idea if lighttpd supports it
<hub> Mithrandir: I did :-).
<zakame> Lathiat: you mean the modular configuration?
<Lathiat> zakame: i havent used it, but more, whether you can compile in modules and not have them loaded at runtime, etc
<zakame> Lathiat: yes, lighttpd can do that :)  My only gripe is that its configuration syntax is a bit confusing...
<zakame> ... but its like Perl, so, it ought to be just normal :)
<zakame> Lathiat: thanks! :D
<hub> do I have to export and send the signed key ?
<ogra> hub, just print the fingerprint and key id several times
<hub> ogra: I have business card with key ID
<hub> ogra: so that's ok. but I was wondering after doing a --sign-key if I had to send it to its owner
<ogra> then you need the fingerprint only... i'm not sure if anybody planned a keysigning party
<hub> ogra: are you in Mtl?
<ogra> ye
<ogra> s
<hub> ah
<hub> I come back from the dinner with the ubuntu guys
<ogra> else i wouldnt be awake at this horrible time ;)
<hub> I'm home now
<hub> and out of beer:-(
<tritium> ogra, it's not even midnight, is it?
<ogra> oh, we just had a drinking BOF
<ogra> tritium, its 6:47am in my home TZ :)
<hub> tritium: it is almost 1
<hub> ogra: yeah I read that with \sh
<tritium> ogra, fair enough.  DST ends tonight...
<ogra> yup
<hub> I crossed Daniel Silverstone and we exchange keys and picture IDs
<ogra> ah, didnt see him around yet
<hub> and the wiki page say " Sign the key of the person you've just met. Send him/her the key you've just signed."
<ogra> he wasnt at dinner with us
<hub> so I was wondering
<hub> ogra: nor with us
<ogra> yes, send it to him... he has to upload it
<hub> ok.
<ogra> dont upload it yourself, he needs to confirm
<ogra> so leave it in his hands
<hub> first time I sign keys :-)
<hub> make sense. just wanted to make sure
<hub> 46KB for an armored key?
<hub> wow
<ogra> dsilvers ?
<ogra> yes, he's got quite some signs already :)
<hub> ogra: dsilvers
<ogra> yup
<hub> I just printed a newer stack of cards
<ogra> heh
<hub> I threw away 300 cards last week, they became useless
<ogra> ok, i'm off to bed now, got a talk tomorrow... and if i'm not attending sabdfls talk at 9am i risk my job ;)
<hub> okay
<hub> see you there
<Amaranth> anyone taking notes or recording the talks?
<hub> taking notes probably a lot of people
<hub> I'll surely take pictures
<zyga> morning
<zakame> hi all
<TiMiDo> hey anyone here?
<ivoks> nope :)
<TiMiDo> oh thnx
<TiMiDo> hey how do i join a Team?
<TiMiDo> on launchpad
<ivoks> which team?
<TiMiDo>  UbuntuCoreDevelopmentTea
<TiMiDo> m
<ivoks> uh :)
<ivoks> thath #ubuntu-devel
<ivoks> you have to become member first
<ivoks> then motu
<TiMiDo> how do i become a member?
<ivoks> then you'll get a chance to become main developer
<TiMiDo> oh ic,
<TiMiDo> so how do i become a member ivoks?
<robitaille> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<ivoks> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember
<ivoks> oh :)
<TiMiDo> and yes i been to the meetings also =)
<robitaille> my mouse is faster than yours ivoks :)
<TiMiDo> so i have to send the gpg key to Benjamin Mako Hill
<TiMiDo> ?
<ivoks> robitaille: i don't have mouse :)
<ivoks> TiMiDo: it's  very simple
<TiMiDo> is it?
<ivoks> TiMiDo: you have to do something for community
<TiMiDo> like what?
<ivoks> then go to CC meeting and become mebmer
<ivoks> then sign CoC with your trusted gpg key
<ivoks> then do some help for motu
<ivoks> and become motu
<TiMiDo> what can i do for the community??
<ivoks> then work hard every day to maybe get a chance for main developer
<ivoks> TiMiDo: whatever
<TiMiDo> like writting a document?
<ivoks> whatever you think is good for community
<TiMiDo> ok,
* TiMiDo is thinking
<ivoks> CC will decide if that good enough
<TiMiDo> who's cc?
<ivoks> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember
<ivoks> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember
<ivoks> sorry for double paste :/
<robitaille> the wiki and web site both have a bunch of things you can do
<robitaille> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/participate
<robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TheUbuntuCommunity
<zakame> hi all
<robitaille> just pick whatever you are good at, or you want to do.
<zakame> wb Sepheebear
<ivoks> ptlo: hej hej!
<ivoks> ptlo: join #ubuntu-hr
<zakame> hmmm, are the debian package sources for apache2 available via VC?
<ptlo> ivoks heya! :)
<zakame> ah, its at svn.debian.org pala...
* Kyral stretches and yawns
<Kyral> Nothing like a bit of anime to wake up with
<crimsun> I'm encoding flacs, heh.
<siretart> morning
<crimsun> morning
<pef> hello
<siretart> hi pef
<pef> siretart: hi :) can I have revu2 trac url ?
<siretart> pef: http://revu.tauware.de/trac
<pef> thanks !
<ivoks> \sh: ?
<ivoks> \sh: i guess you are in montreal :)
<\sh> yes
<ivoks> \sh: go to bed :)
<\sh> siretart lays in the other bed next to me
<ivoks> siretart: you too?! :)
<siretart> ivoks: we cannot sleep anymore
<siretart> ivoks: I'm with \sh in the same room :)
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> i understand... time diff
<ivoks> you have to acomodate
<\sh> ivoks: i was awake 28h
<\sh> ivoks: that means now I'm totally clear in my mind...
<ivoks> :)
<Kyral> Whats the temp in Montreal right now anyway?
<Kyral> I need to know if I should wear my winter jacket or my hoodie ;P
* Kyral shrugs
<crimsun> Kyral: wunderground.
<Kyral> wazzat mean?
<crimsun> the Web site
<Kyral> ?
<Kyral> which website
<crimsun> wunderground.com
<crimsun> http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/71627.html
<Kyral> ah 3C! Thats quite warm!
<Kyral> Hoodie it is :D
<Kyral> I gotta go catch my ride, cya all at 9 :D (Now I just need to find someplace to get breakfast...)
<crimsun> I just use the Weather Report panel applet
<ivoks> 3C?
<ivoks> man, is it snowing?
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> snowboarding comes to my mind :)
<_Tonio_> hi
<highvoltage> hi _Tonio_
<\sh> moins highvoltage
<hub> hi
<hub> anybody awake?
<\sh> re
<\sh> sure
<Yagisan> yeah - what's up ?
<hub> \sh: jetlagged? it always does that to me
<hub> my alarm was at 7 but didn't take into account DST
<hub> so now I'm really awake
<\sh> hub: well...after 28 hours without sleep...and only a couple of hours of sleep including now the daylight saving change
<\sh> we're feeling ok :)
<\sh> I'm up for a big cup of coffee
<hub> perhaps we should have a caffeination BOF
<\sh> hehe...which room r u?
<hub> \sh: I'm at home
<\sh> oh yeah..u live here, right? :)
<hub> yep
<\sh> hub: btw...http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/ubz/ <- fresh hot pictures :)
<hub> I didn't took pics yesterday
<\sh> lol
<\sh> siretart is fun :)
<hub> \sh: if I show up in 1/2 hour, are you up to a coffee BOF?
<\sh> hub: sure :)
<hub> the hardest part is to find my GF metro pass
<hub> \sh: which room are you?
<\sh> 714
<hub> ok
<\sh> but I think we meet up downstairs in front of the hotel
<hub> outside?
<\sh> yeah...for a smoking  bof ;)
<hub> \sh: ah ok.
<hub> I'm almost ready to leave now
<hub> see you then
<\sh> cu later :)
<siretart> crimsun: you just commented on #3473?
<siretart> crimsun: perhaps you want to take this bug then, assign it to you, okay?
<keyes> hello
<keyes> siretart:  hello
<siretart> huhu keyes
<Yagisan> keyes: how is your et package ?
<keyes> Yagisan:  same point
<keyes> problem with sound
<keyes> esddsp don't work with et
<keyes> aoss works but very bad
<siretart> et? as in enemy teritorry?
<Yagisan> keyes: no ? (I only run it on amd64)
<Yagisan> siretart: yes
<keyes> siretart:  yes
<siretart> Yagisan: err, is it redistributable at all?
<keyes> siretart:  it seems opensource but I don't know
<siretart> and after all, it's really huge package
<siretart> keyes: opensource? et? haha!
<Yagisan> siretart: let me just check the license
<keyes> if it's redistruable
<siretart> keyes: the engine is free, but not the media/data files
<Yagisan> siretart: It has a lot of mirrors (260MB)
<keyes> yes the engine
* siretart started some work on "et-package" inspired by java-package
<siretart> some time ago
<keyes> How can I do to run this command as root before playing in a package? (don't works with sudo)
<Yagisan> siretart: yes, you can redistribute it, if you don't charge for it
<siretart> keyes: what command?
<keyes> echo "et.x86 0 0 direct" > /proc/asound/card0/pcm0p/oss
<siretart> bah, that should be fixed elsewhere, talk to crimsun
<Yagisan> siretart, keyes: that command is only needed on sound cards without hardware mixing
<siretart> okay, breakfast now, cu later
<keyes> Yagisan:  my sound card don't have hardware mixing ...
<crimsun> siretart: sure
<crimsun> siretart: I uploaded a new wpasupplicant as well
<Yagisan> keyes: Neither did my onboard
<keyes> i've also tryed "killall esd && et && esd" but don't works ...
<Yagisan> keyes: You got the list of libs needed (strings et.x86 | grep lib) ?
<keyes> http://pastebin.com/410850
<keyes> I can make a rc.d script but ... I think this is a bad solution
<crimsun> keyes: cat /proc/asound/modules
<keyes> 0 snd_via82xx
<keyes>    1 snd_usb_audio
<crimsun> so you're attempting the via82xx driver for et?
<keyes> yes
<crimsun> keyes: you should have a second pcm device for your via82xx
<Yagisan> keyes: did "esdctl stop" help ?
<keyes> $ esdctl stop
<keyes> -1
<Yagisan> crimsun: et wants /dev/dsp all to itself
<keyes> yes
<Yagisan> crimsun: just like quake3
<crimsun> please test if unloading snd-pcm-oss then reloading it with ''sudo modprobe snd-pcm-oss dsp_map=1'' resolves the ET issue
<keyes> don't solve anything
<crimsun> I also need to know the precise /proc/asound/cards info, because it might well be a dxs_support issue
<keyes> 0 [V8235          ] : VIA8233 - VIA 8235
<keyes>                      VIA 8235 with ALC655 at 0xe000, irq 22
<keyes> 1 [U0x46d0x8b3    ] : USB-Audio - USB Device 0x46d:0x8b3
<keyes>                      USB Device 0x46d:0x8b3 at usb-0000:00:10.2-2, full speed
<crimsun> ah, the 655
* crimsun checks
<Yagisan> crimsum: I had the same problem with VIA 8237 with ALC658
<crimsun> ok, unload then reload snd-via82xx, passing the following dxs_support values in this order if the previous doesn't work: 1, 4, 2
<crimsun> Yagisan: the non-mixing issue is known and won't be fixed
<keyes> crimsun:  but i'm looking for a solution working on all configs for my package
<crimsun> Yagisan: the sample rate problem has workarounds, but the myriad codecs and chipsets present problems
<keyes> and the sound don't work by default on all configs
<crimsun> keyes: your package should not be touching ALSA configs; that should be a bug in alsa-kernel/alsa-driver
<keyes> crimsun:  hum
<keyes> it's bug in ET
<keyes> i have read
<crimsun> keyes: which bug?
<crimsun> keyes: I thought you were referring to the sound quality problem
<keyes> like quake3 et don't use alsa but OSS
<keyes> and sound doesn't work without hack on systems using alsa
<crimsun> well ttimo didn't develop an ALSA-native backend for those, true
<crimsun> but et and q3a should still work using the OSS "emulation"
<tseng> works for me
<crimsun> if they don't work, that's a bug in ALSA
<tseng> q3 less recently
<tseng> et a few days ago
<tseng> on breezy final
<Yagisan> I need the work around with VIA 8237 with ALC658, but not with SBLive! Value [CT4832] 
<keyes> so i will make a packag with no sound and provide a link to active the sound ...
<Yagisan> crimsun: Is the VIA 8237 incapable of mixing ?
<crimsun> Yagisan: yes, and dxs_support=2 should disable it completely
<crimsun> keep in mind that the mixing is craptastic
<Yagisan> keyes: don't forget the LD_ASSUME_KERNEL
<Yagisan> crimsun: OK, that means the $10au I spent on ebay for the sblive was well spent
<crimsun> Yagisan: yes. The via82xx mixing can only be called such...barely.
<keyes> Yagisan:  what about that?
<Yagisan> keyes: et needs export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.2 to work on amd64
<Yagisan> keyes: I added it to the script right before the exec ./et.x86
<keyes> ok
<keyes> will add it
<Yagisan> keyes: when you need the package tested, ping me - I'm very interested
<keyes> ok
* Yagisan doesn't like installing apps that aptitude doesn't know about
* crimsun stumbles off to sleep
* Yagisan goes to put kids to bed. Night all
<tseng> Lathiat: "Hence users could be able to run nearly all Zeroconf-enabled software for Unix on top of Avahi." < oh man
<Lathiat> tseng: ? :)
<tseng> cool stuff
<Lathiat> :)
<Lathiat> yup
<Lathiat> 0.6 is looking good
<Lathiat> we trashed the python utils and made them C too, so can suit some more smaller systems
<tseng> nice
<Lathiat> and fixed a network vulnerability :\
<tseng> my ideal goal is to have a little file server running daap all the time
* Lathiat nods
<Lathiat> you could do that with mt-daapd
<tseng> ya
<Lathiat> just turn off its internal thing and advertise it with a static service file :)
<tseng> i dont have any clients yet, though
<Lathiat> rb does it
<Lathiat> and daap-sharp is looking good so banshee may soon
<tseng> seb turned off avahi in rb package
<Lathiat> yeh cus its still in universe
<Lathiat> he filled out a main incl report for it
<tseng> yes :)
<Lathiat> welp, me -> bed :)
<Lathiat> night
<siretart> re
<hub> re
<hub> funny irc over the lobby
* ivoks is so proud :)
<zakame> hello all
<ajmitch> morning all
<zakame> hi ajmitch :D
<Lathiat> night ajmitch ;p
* Lathiat cries
<sivang> morning motus
<ajmitch> hi
<zakame> hi sivang
<\sh> sivang: got your book upstairs :)
<sivang> \sh: cool thanks :)
<sivang> \sh: we'll meet over lunch , I hope
<zakame> you all already in Montreal?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> ubuntu love day today
<\sh> sivang: sure...i think i'm the only guy with blue glasses here
<ajmitch> mm, merging...
* ajmitch knows \sh will love that ;)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: raise your hand!
<ajmitch> Treenaks: I'm sitting by azz who's talking..
<ivoks> :)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: azz?
<ivoks> guys at ubz should leave to ubuntu-ubz
<ajmitch> Treenaks: where are you?
<ivoks> and leave other in agony :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: nah :P
<Treenaks> ajmitch: at the front
<Treenaks> next to dholbach
<ajmitch> :)
<Treenaks> hi! :)
<ajmitch> hi
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> just uploaded xterm 205
<\sh> ,)
<ajmitch> uh oh :)
* ajmitch needs to do some uploads asap
<ajmitch> fyi, ubz motus need to subscribe to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/motu-debian
<\sh> ajmitch: done
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> basically the topic that they're talking about at the moment :)
<ajmitch> except it's what we need to do to make life easier
<zakame> ajmitch: yep, that'll be good
<zakame> how about motu packages not yet available in debian?
<ajmitch> that's another matter, working with the utnubu team if they want to maintain those in debian
<CaiN_SA> whah
<zakame> ajmitch: ah
<ajmitch> hello CaiN_SA
<zakame> wb CaiN_SA
<ajmitch> wb ogra :)
<zakame> wb ogra
* ajmitch reruns his merge list for dapper, looks like we have an awful lot of work to do
<tseng> python, gcc
<tseng> x
<tseng> yes indeed
<ajmitch> 632 at a quick count
<hub> hi all
<hub> dholbach rocks 1
<hub> !
<ajmitch> :)
<Akatemik> Hmm, is this the right place to ask about own ubuntu related dev-projects (ended up here from #ubuntu-devel's /topic)?
<\sh> Akatemik: yepp
<Akatemik> Great. I was thinking of remastering an ubuntu-livecd for my own needs, biggest difference being a need to make it boot on multiple archs
<\sh> Akatemik: u should talk about this project on -devel...-motu is just more packaging stuff..
<Akatemik> \sh: Hmm, ok
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-05
<cfaun> are new packages supposed to be submitted to REVU? If so, where (the ubuntu site links to the german site and the german site links to the ubuntu site)?
<ajmitch> the 'how to register' & 'how to upload' sections are relevant on the wiki
<cfaun> thanks
<tseng> Nafallo_away: hey how is that new apt proxy working
<dan_> hello
<Kyral> Heyo
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<Kyral> Yo
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<Kyral> Good, just got back from Ubuntu Love
<LaserJock> how was it?
<Kyral> Fuuuunnnn
<Kyral> and the food was good too
<LaserJock> well, that is the most important thing for college students ;-)
<farruinn> I somehow missed the fact that there was free lunch :/
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Of course you missed the fact, it went over your SUNY head j/k ;P
<Kyral> Hoi Mez!
<LaserJock> looks like Mez can't make up his mind ;-)
<Kyral> haha
<Riddell> he's reinstalling his computer
<Kyral> hehe
<Kyral> hey hub
<Amaranth> Riddell: kick him and tell him to wait before joining IRC :)
<Riddell> he was showing me xchat too
* Kyral superglues Mez to the channel
<Kyral> Stay put!
<Mez> hey
<Mez> i was going upstairs
<Mez> leave me along
<Mez> alone
<Kyral> sorry it was a joke ;P
<Mez> and I was playing with you
<Mez> anyways
<Mez> to McDonalds :D
<Kyral> You know how hard sarcasm is to detect over IRC?
<Kyral> And I have have a hard time detecting it IRL
<Amaranth> </sarcasm> helps
<Kyral> No kiddin' ;P
* Lathiat tends to use ;) for sarcasm :)
<Amaranth> I actually prefer </dontkillme>
<Lathiat> i oftren use *hide* too
<Lathiat> err, *hides*
<Lathiat> or /me ducks
<Lathiat> :P)
<Kyral> or j/k ;P
<Lathiat> argh the P key of death
<Amaranth> wikipedia has an entry on SMEG
<Amaranth> with incorrect info, of course
<Amaranth> and no link to the wikipedia entry about me, damnit! :)
<zakame> ehlo everyone.name
<Kyral> yo
<Kyral> hmm, does an email address have to be subscribed to a Mailing List to send to it...
<Amaranth> not usually
<zakame> depends on the ML
<Kyral> Assume Ubuntu MLs ;P
<Kyral> My college blocked lists.ubuntu.com from me receiving emails from them after a flood from Dapper-Changes ;P
<Kyral> so I routed them to my GMail account. But I still want to reply through my college email because thats where my GPG key is registered to
<zakame> why not use the Dapper-Changes RSS?
<Kyral> because I never really got the hang of RSS and its easier for me to hit the key combo to Evolution ;P
<zakame> ah
<Kyral> either that or I figure out how to add my GMail addy to my GPG Key
<schweeb> Kyral: if you have an NNTP client, you can subscribe to the list via gmane.org
<Kyral> Wazzat?
<Kyral> nm, I'll keep sending via my college mail
<Kyral> and receiving via GMail
<schweeb> check out gmane.org
<schweeb> it's the bomb
<schweeb> you can read any of a few hundred OSS mail lists through your newsreader
<Kyral> I'll be okay ;P
<schweeb> (which is  usually built into your email client)
<schweeb> and you don't have to worry about filling up your personal inboxes
<Kyral> schweeb it wasn't that it was being filled
<Kyral> I think my college took the volume of email to be spam and blocked it
<schweeb> by filling, I mean volume of mail :p
<Kyral> I'd rather just add my GMail to my GPG Key
<Kyral> but I don't know how to
<LaserJock> wouldn't you need to have a new key?
<Kyral> I don't think so...
<Kyral> Just a new UID
<Kyral> Like so...
<Kyral> hey sh
<\sh> evening
<LaserJock> Kyral: so you were able to do it?
<Kyral> yah, just tacked on a new UID to my GPG key and updated it on the keyserve
<LaserJock> hmm, cool. I have been wondering if that was possible
* Kyral stretches
<Kyral> long day
<\sh> ok.../me needs some sleep...
<\sh> tomorrow 9 o'clock sharp :)
<Kyral> same for me
<Kyral> but class ;P
<Kyral> Have fun \sh. I'll be keeping tabs on it via Launchpad ;P
<\sh> Kyral: u too :)
<Kyral> Was nice meeting you BTW
<\sh> Kyral: it was a pleasure to meat all of you :)
<Kyral> Can't wait until the next one :D
<\sh> yeah..
<Kyral> Assuming I can find my way outta the country ;P
<_vlad> Hello everyone, I wanted to join you Ubuntu in development effort and Mez pointed me onto this channel.
<Mez> _vlad, now might not be a good time
<Mez> everyones gettign ready to go to bed
<_vlad> ups, ook
<_vlad> I'll try later.
<Mez> (we're all in montreal - and about to sleep)
<_vlad> so, enjoy UBZ
<Riddell> _vlad: excellent
<Riddell> _vlad: we are busy at the conference this week but best way to start is to learn how to package, find something that needs packaging and package it
<Riddell> _vlad: also bug triaging is very welcome
<Riddell> _vlad: as is writing documentation, translatios and artwork
<sladen> sleep... tut tut
<Riddell> _vlad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<Riddell> see UniverseCandidates for stuff to package, KubuntuPackagingGuide for how to package
<_vlad> Riddell, I will surely look at it (I did it already but it won't hurt)
<Riddell> _vlad: feel free to go through all the KDE bugs and fix/close/mark as duplicate
<Riddell> then I'll buy you beer
* Riddell sleeps
<zakame> hi all
<zyga> morning
<tritium> good night all
<zakame> afternoon here :))
<bjweeks> Hello.
<zakame> hi bjweeks
<bjweeks> I was interested in becomeing a motu. I've read some on the wiki and got my launchpad account set up.
<zakame> bjweeks: what packages do you intend to work on?
<bjweeks> I was interested in the gameing related packages eg. xqf or anything that is needed.
<bjweeks> oops.
<zakame> that's a good start
<bjweeks> I have noticed that quite a few of the gameing debs are outdated or need to be packeged.
<zakame> bjweeks: is this coming from UniverseCandidates?
<bjweeks> I count 24 gameing related packeges in UniverseCandidates.
<zakame> bjweeks: good! :D pick one or three, and work on those :) then once you have some packages, put those up for REVU :)
<bjweeks> I've seen few out of date packages just looking around in Synapic.
<bjweeks> Cool
<zakame> bjweeks: wish you luck then! :D
<zakame> bjweeks: just document your work on the wiki and on LP, and make sure those packages are really working :)
<bjweeks> Anybody here?
<bjweeks> Anybody?
<_Tonio_> hi
<shawarma> bjweeks: There is now.
<shawarma> _Tonio_: Hi.
<_Tonio_> hi
<bjweeks> I'm back
<bjweeks> shawarma do you have any info on packaging binary only apps?
<bjweeks> Like a how-to or wiki?
<shawarma> bjweeks: I think so. Gimme a sec.
<shawarma> bjweeks: It's not pretty, but it works: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Debian-Binary-Package-Building-HOWTO/
<shawarma> What do you need it for?
<bjweeks> I'm learning to package apps and the one I want to do in binary only.
<bjweeks> All the how-to I've seen are for compileing source in to a deb
<dfarning> Hey I just built my first ubuntu package--do I upload it to REVU
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> source, not package
<dfarning> so then the source will sit until some reviews it?
<ivoks> yes
<dfarning> ivoks: thanks
<shawarma> bjweeks: Ok. I just wanted to make sure that you're aware that a package that was made according to that howto never could enter Ubuntu.
<bjweeks> Well thats what i was planing.
<bjweeks> So how would you make a package with just binarys and data?
<bjweeks> They would be diffrent packages I would think
<shawarma> Can you please tell me what you're trying to package?
<bjweeks> The game cube.
<bjweeks> It is open source but to play online you have to use the binary release.
<shawarma> bjweeks: I see.. And that's some closed source thing?
<shawarma> bjweeks: I see.
<shawarma> bjweeks: Well, if it's something you want to enter Ubuntu it needs to be able to build from source.
<bjweeks> The dev uses a differnt netcode to provent hacking.
<bjweeks> It is on the UniverseCandidates list.
<dfarning> ivoks: Just want to verify-- I should used the pristen upstream source  with a dpatched dropped in debian/patched
<sistpoty2_uni> hi folks
<sistpoty2_uni> ping siretart
<bjweeks> I guess I'll find a differnt app to package. :)
<shawarma> bjweeks: Maybe I misunderstood your original question.
<shawarma> bjweeks: What do you mean by a "binary only app"?
<bjweeks> To you play the game online you have to use the binary provided by the dev
<shawarma> bjweeks: Isn't it just the network part of it that's binary?
<bjweeks> No the game binary in compiled with the different netcode
<bjweeks> But the game data is the same
<shawarma> bjweeks: I see.. Well, you can just package it just like a regular package. Just fix the install script or makefile or whatever to install in the tmp directory.
<shawarma> bjweeks: There's just no howto for it that I know of.
<bjweeks> It has no make file just extract and go.
<shawarma> bjweeks: Then you just make sure it extracts to the right place.
<bjweeks> That sounds easy, now I have to do it. :)
<shawarma> It's not that hard actually.
<bjweeks> One last question, should you just but the directory in /usr/local/games/"mygame" or split the binary and the data files?
<bjweeks> Do I need to serpate the binary and data in differnt debs?
<shawarma> bjweeks: Not necessarily.
<shawarma> bjweeks: Oh, and never put anything in /usr/local
<shawarma> bjweeks: If the installer does that, fix it.
<bjweeks> No, That where I thought it would go.
<bjweeks> Where would be a good place for the game data?
<bjweeks> s
<bjweeks> I'm going to bed shawarma thanks for all you help.
<\sh> moins
<siretart> hi
<tiefox> will the banshee package be updated with the today's release ?
<tseng> yes, certainly
<tseng> but not in any kind of rush, im just now testing it myself
<tiefox> thx :) look's like the ipod support has been greatyl improved..so now i will be able to use my shuffle with it in this new version
<pef> hello
<zakame> heya
<siretart> hi lamont :)
<siretart> lamont: we are in #ubz
<zakame> wb dholbach
<dholbach> morning zakame
<zakame> hmm, just making sure, but if a source tarball is a .bz2, do I have to repackage it to become a .gz?
<_Tonio_> zakame: yes you have to.
<zakame> _Tonio_: okies, thanks again :)
<_Tonio_> no pb :)
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<zakame> hi Gloubiboulga
<zakame> is there some reference or tutorial on building shared library packages?  I'm looking at http://arch.debian.org/arch/private/srivasta/#libs
<Gloubiboulga> is the ubuntu policy for packages the same than the debian one ?
<Gloubiboulga> (I am a beginner in packaging)
<zakame> Gloubiboulga: for the most part, yes
<zakame> Gloubiboulga: see DeveloperResources on the wiki
<Gloubiboulga> ok thanks
<jpatrick> siretart: ping
<siretart> jpatrick: not the best time right now, what is it?
<jpatrick> I was wondering if you could give me an account of revu
<siretart> jpatrick: your keyid?
<jpatrick> F4944AEE
<jpatrick> It's on keyserver.ubuntu.com
<siretart> jpatrick: done
<jpatrick> thanks
<egoleo> i am new here
<egoleo> and i want to be part of the great ubuntu family
<\sh> 1/qu9it
<whiprush> hi mark_ramm
<chillywilly> anyone know how you can make apt-get always prompt for installation of a package?
<chillywilly> apt-get install foo...are you sure? [y/n] 
<Treenaks> man apt-get ;)
<egoleo> so any tutorial on how to package
<schweeb> the debian new maintainer guide
<schweeb> or there's stuff on the wiki
<egoleo> so can i get the link
<Mez> siretart: request for revu-build on k3b
<schweeb> couple mins, busy w/ work
<farruinn> egoleo: www.debian.org/doc has a number of resources
<egoleo> thnx farr
<farruinn> I'm attempting to get pbuilder to create a dapper chroot on my breezy install.  There is no dapper script in /usr/lib/deboostrap/scripts, so I'm just 'cp breezy dapper' there. Any changes I should make to that script?
<Mez> farruinn, dont bother
<Mez> build a breezy chroot
<Mez> then do a mnaul upgrade
<Mez> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PBuilderHowto
<farruinn> ok, thanks
<Mez> though I'll actually have a look at that
<farruinn> the wiki or the deboostrap package?
<farruinn> if this is the recommended procedure the wiki page should be changed I think
<chillywilly> Treenaks: I looked at the man page and there's no option to set to always ask for confirmation before installing packages...I also tried setting APT::Get::Assume-Yes "false"; in apt.conf, but screw it...it was for a friend anyway ;P
<siretart> Mez: I show you how you can do that
<Mez> siretart: I dont have access do i?
<siretart> Mez: you should have, you are in the pbuilder group
<siretart> Mez: try to relogin, I added you to some extra groups
<Mez> which groups?
<Mez> nologin
<Mez> :P
<siretart> hrhr
<siretart> revu and www-data
<Mez> yeah i saw
<Mez> so now I can work on revu ?
<siretart> sure
<siretart> wait, I'll join you just a sek
<Mez> and I was gonna go for a cig
<Mez> ah, BP promotion is over here anyways
<Mez> \sh: cigarette?
<siretart> Mez: yepp
<Gloubiboulga> Is a "binary-without-manpage" lintian warning a big deal ?
<GazerWork> Gloubiboulga, the Debian New Maintainers' Guide  says : Your program(s) should have a manual page. If they don't, each of these files is a template that you can fill out.
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<Gloubiboulga> but it's not my program :)
<GazerWork> Gloubiboulga, but it is your package :), you can write the manpage using the templates provided by dh_make
<schweeb> Gloubiboulga: kinda depends if you're packaging it yourself, or just fixing an existing package
<schweeb> if you're packaging something new, you definitely should make a manpage... if you're fixing an existing package, you should probably add one, and send the changes upstream
<Gloubiboulga> I'm packaging myself
<Gloubiboulga> I'm in touch with the author, I'll see with him what can be done
<dredg> packaging = porting someone elses app to debian/ubuntu/whatever. for that purpose it's technically your program
<Gloubiboulga> ok ok
<siretart> Mirno: around?
<Mirno> siretart: yupp I am
<siretart> Mirno: I've seen you had included xdtv into plf
<Mirno> siretart: (you're sure lucky guy I wan't 2 minits ago and i won't very soon again)
<Mirno> siretart: In the testing rep only
<siretart> Mirno: I'm a bit confused about this, because I thought we agreed that you don't use that "ubuntu" but "plf" in the version
<Mirno> siretart: we did
<siretart> http://antesis.freecontrib.org/mirrors/ubuntu/devnotpublic/pool/free/xdtv/
<siretart> its called  xdtv_2.2.0-0.5ubuntu1
<Mirno> siretart: But i didn't make the package I bet we forgot to acknowledge people ont he list.
<siretart> Mirno: but you built it in your pbuilder, did you?
<Mirno> siretart: ah I see : the wiki is up to date on the english part only. it's still ubuntu ont he fr one.
<Mirno> siretart: no
<Mirno> siretart: the maintainer build it
<siretart> err
<Mirno> siretart: peopel submit binaries with their sources
<siretart> Mirno: the next thing: why don't you try to get that into ubuntu itself?
<siretart> Mirno: I thought we agreed on cooperation.
<Mirno> siretart: xdtv ? well It's the maintainers job. look the other packages he will submit them to motu or backports or whatever as I saw. If you give him confirmation on xdtv and deps then he will submitit to MOTU and'll remove it from plf
<siretart> Mirno: well, I thought you are one of the heads of plf/ubuntu. Please don't expect me to run after each individual plf member
<siretart> Mirno: why should he have concerns that that package would not be suitable for inclusion into ubuntu?
<siretart> that actually whay I'm talking/asking
<Mirno> siretart: I have no idea
<siretart> Mirno: what should we do about that now?
<Mirno> siretart: we have a list on the wiki of package that can go to plf. If you see any that should go to motu please make us know. People who join plf are packageing things that are marqued ont the wiki page.
<siretart> Mirno: basically EVERYTHING that is freely distributable can be included into ubuntu. I told you that a couple of times
<Mirno> siretart: ah really ? why not libdvdcss2 then ?
<Lathiat> Mirno: because thats not freely distributable
<Lathiat> its illegal in many countries
<siretart> Mirno: because it is not legal to redistribute it in many many countries. we discussed that several times
<Mirno> siretart: Lathiat: sorry I read the liscence it says GPL .. how the hell i'm supposed to know it's illegale somewhere ? it's not in my country... that's why some people make that list of package that can't go (or they think so) into MOTU
<Lathiat> Mirno: it is GPL, so its free in that sense, but it is illegal to distribute/use it in lots of coutnries, particularly those hosting main mirror sites, etc etc
<Mirno> lamont: did you just read what I said ?
<Mirno> Lathiat: *
<GazerWork> Mirno, It's a Patent related problem, not licence problem.
<siretart> Mirno: I wrote and explained you extensivly in a very loing email on plf discuss
<Mirno> Lathiat: that's why we distribute it in PLF 'cause it's illegale... in some countries. So the " EVERYTHING that is freely distributable" is not true as libdvdcss2 is freely distribuable as said by the authors, i'm no awyer How will I know it's not freely distribuable as the author tells it is freely distribuable
<siretart> Mirno: what else do you expect from me?
<Mirno> siretart: I didn't ask for anything, you offered it, and i'm happyly takeing and doing whatever I can to run that plf thing. i'm sorry if doesn't go as good as you wish or as fast as you wish, but we a really trying.
<siretart> just a sek
<Mirno> siretart: i'm writting a mail to the lsit about the plf extension.
<siretart> Mirno:may I make a wish?
<Mirno> siretart: You sure do
<siretart> Mirno: please don't accept anything into plf that has not been rejected by motu team
<siretart> you'll save work, and can provide better support for your packages
<Mirno> siretart: oki, i'll 'd be happy, I just don't know where to to find such list of rejectged packages
<siretart> Mirno: ask here or on ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<siretart> Mirno: usually we are in this irc channel
<Mirno> siretart: ok, 'll ask on channel
<herzi> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> herzi: pong
<Mirno> siretart: sorry i don't have my laptop we me, could you remind me the pbuild how-to url ?
<Mirno> found it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto.
<Mirno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto (without the . sorry)
<Mirno> siretart: I mailed the list.
<Mirno> sladen: hi !
<Mirno> slomo: Hi !
<Mirno> :)
<slomo> hi Mirno :)
<GazerWork> someone using Muine on breezy ?
<LaserJock> GazerWork: I am
<GazerWork> LaserJock, when I press play the Muine freeze
<GazerWork> LaserJock, runing an strace I get: futex(0x88529b8, FUTEX_WAIT, 2, NULL)
<GazerWork> LaserJock, and I must kill the app :S
<GazerWork> LaserJock, grrr, I'm so stupid :), My gstreamer is configured to use esd , now is working ...
<LaserJock> GazerWork: glad I could help ;-)
<GazerWork> LaserJock, :)
* Kyral yawns
<Kyral> Okay, people have started requesting completely new packages (Things that haven't ever been in Debian nor Ubuntu) on the Backports Forum
<Kyral> I smell Universe Canditate
<Kyral> hey daniel how goes UBZ?
* Kyral waves to everyone
<dholbach> hi Kyral
<dholbach> Kyral: just started a bof session
<Kyral> ah I'll shut up then ;P
<mindwarp> Greetings.  My name is Steve and I am looking to help out the MOTU.  Anyone have any tasks etc I can help out with?
<Amaranth> mindwarp: most people are either sleeping or at Ubuntu Below Zero so it might take awhile to get an answer
<Kyral> or studying their asses off for exams
<LaserJock> or working on presentations ;-)
<mindwarp> I have some time, not a problem
<LaserJock> mindwarp: do you have experience making Debian/Ubuntu packages?
<mindwarp> LaserJock - I have read all the docs, but if you point me in the direction you need a package for I will give it a go
<Kyral> I'd grab a sourceball from one of the repos and inspect it first
<Kyral> like see what it looks like etc
<LaserJock> mindwarp: well, take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo
<LaserJock> mindwarp: look especially at UniverseCandidates and bugfixing
<LaserJock> mindwarp: even UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile if you are into the mundane ;-)
<mindwarp> LaserJock - so if I go and fix a bug in a program, is all that is needed is a patch, or should I repackage it?
<LaserJock> mindwarp: right now the best thing to do is make a debdiff and attach it to the bug report or let somebody know here at least
<slomo> if someone wants something uploaded and can't find someone to upload ask me ;) i have nothing to do atm
* Kyral gazes over the Merge list
<LaserJock> Kyral: where is that?
<Kyral> slomo, I may need to request a sync from Sid soon
<slomo> Kyral: what package and why? normally everything is autosynced currently... or it needs manual merging/syncing when there are ubuntu specific changes
<Kyral> Something in Universe Canditates
<Kyral> its in Sid and it compiles/installs clean on my Dapper system
<slomo> a NEW package? ok :)
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> crafty
<crimsun> if it's in sid already, it shouldn't be a prob
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> Should I comment in Universe Candidates?
<crimsun> that would be wise
<crimsun> slomo: you're a member of MOTUMedia, correct?
<slomo> crimsun: yes
<crimsun> slomo: I've had a request to add vlc-plugin-alsa as a Dependency of vlc
<Kyral> whoops
<crimsun> slomo: what's your opinion?
<slomo> Kyral: or better mail elmo to sync it... (hm, what was the policy for syncing be non-motu?)
<Kyral> err wait it works
<Kyral> I just got caught off guard by the output ;P
<slomo> crimsun: i don't know vlc... is it needed for playback? or does it include a oss/esd/whatever plugin by default?
<crimsun> slomo: oss is the single default one
<crimsun> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3678
* Kyral doesn't know the procedure for non-MOTU to sync packages...
<slomo> ok, can this default be changed to alsa? would be more sane imho... otherwise make it a suggests
<ajmitch> Kyral: what needs synced?
<Kyral> crafty. Its on the Universe Canditates list and the Sid version compiles/installs fine on Dapper
<crimsun> slomo: for the default to be changed, we'd have to make vlc-plugin-alsa a Depends
<slomo> oh, hi ajmitch :) how was your flight and everything? :)
<ajmitch> ok
<Kyral> At least on my system ;P
<slomo> crimsun: ok, then let's do this... will alsa used as a default then or does it need the user to do something?
<LaserJock> Kyral: I think you can ask elmo for a sync but it is good to get MOTU ok's before. That is what I have done in the past anyway.
<mindwarp> so if I make a .desktop file, where do I submit it?
<ajmitch> crafty - non-free/games
<crimsun> slomo: it'll be used as the default without intervention
<ajmitch> with 1 RC bug in debian
<Kyral> ajmitch, yah
<slomo> crimsun: ok... will you do it or shall i?
<Kyral> Oh it does hmm
<LaserJock> mindwarp: try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFileExampleFiles first
<Kyral> Thats why it didn't pick up on me
<slomo> mindwarp: prepare a debdiff and upload it somewhere and tell me where it is to look at it ;)
<crimsun> slomo: I'll do it with the next upload. There are more patches to apply to our source.
<slomo> crimsun: ok :)
<LaserJock> mindwarp: can you update the package to include the .desktop file?
<Kyral> Its on AMD64 the bug is...
<Kyral> what does RC mean again?
<mindwarp> LaserJock - yeah can do
* tseng wonders why in the world evolution uses libhal
<LaserJock> mindwarp: then make a debdiff like slomo said and then let him know where to find it
<slomo> Kyral: release critical
<Kyral> Ah
<Kyral> I can't help fix the AMD64 bug....I don't have an AMD64 :P
<LaserJock> well, as long as it is just for AMD64 we can ignore it right? ;p
* Kyral bops LaserJock
<Kyral> no..
<LaserJock> </sarcasm>
* Kyral is just going through the Universe Canditadates and seeing which ones can be synced in from Sid
<LaserJock> so does the automatic sync (MOM or whatever is going to be used) only sync packages that are currently in Ubuntu?
<slomo> afaik yes
<Kyral> if a package needs to be fixed from Sid (but not in Ubuntu yet) I append "-0ubuntu1" to it right?
<LaserJock> Kyral: it's not in Debian?
<Kyral> It is
<slomo> Kyral: then simply append ubuntu1 to the old version number... i.e. -1ubuntu1
<Kyral> but in order for it to compile in Ubuntu, I need to fix a depend issue
<Kyral> and upload to REVU right?
<slomo> give me the debdiff and i'll take a look at it and upload it then
<Kyral> kk
<Kyral> time to work :D
<Kyral> dch -a right....
<slomo> yes
<slomo> no
<slomo> dch -i -D dapper
<slomo> and then correct the version number ;)
<Kyral> ty
<Kyral> WTF its already in Dapper universe
<slomo> Kyral: with the fix?
<Kyral> I don't think so
<Kyral> checkout package mixxx
<slomo> ok, then give me a debdiff ;)
* Kyral head spins
<Kyral> Okay, packages.ubuntu.com says its NOT there
<crimsun> it hasn't been accepted from NEW yet
<Kyral> but when I apt-get source it it comes from Dapper repos, even though I have sid enabled
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> I was confused for a sec
<crimsun> mixxx |    1.4.2-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources
<Kyral> so go ahead and fix it?
<slomo> yes
<Kyral> thanks for pointing that out. I'm not used to this "syncing" comcept (what gets synced and what doesn't)
<slomo> you mean what gets synced automatically?
<Kyral> yah
<slomo> at least everything we already have from debian ;) when there were no changes or only rebuilds it will get synced automatically, when there were changes MoM will take it, make a bugreport and gives you a machine-generated merged version of the package
<slomo> don't know about stuff which is in debian but not in ubuntu...
<slomo> but seems like this gets synced too
<Kyral> Then why did the source for mixxx get synced but not the source for crafty?
<LaserJock> did somebody do a manual sync?
<slomo> very good question... probably mixx was a manual sync?
<farruinn> is buzilla still being used for main and restricted?
<Kyral> hmm I have a question on the Users ML about security updates to Universe, Multiverse, and Backports and I'm not sure on how to answer
<slomo> what question?
<Kyral> about the thingy in the default Sources.list about "Also, please note that software
<Kyral> in universe WILL NOT receive any review or updates from the Ubuntu
<Kyral> security team."
<slomo> that means, that it's not garantued that universe package will get security fixes
<slomo> but when someone wants to make a fixed version, fine
<Kyral> annnnd its segfaulting
<Kyral> oh well, slomo do you want the debdiff anyway?
<slomo> Kyral: sure... why not?
<Kyral> It segfaults ;P
<LaserJock> minor issues ;-)
<slomo> that's bad :P
<slomo> then i don't want it ;)
<Kyral> Yah
<slomo> fix the segfault and i'm happy :)
<slomo> did it segfault before?
<Kyral> But I have no clue why its segfaulting
<Kyral> it didn't install before
<slomo> and i have no clue what this package is good for =) hmm, do you have some experience with gdb, etc?
<Kyral> I ran gdb
<Kyral> no debugging symbols
<Kyral> I'll try to nab the binary from Debian and see what happens
<Kyral> if that segfaults as well I'll file a bug with Debian
<slomo> could be a ubuntu specific problem even if the debian version does the same... maybe some used library has problems
<Kyral> here is the problem
<Kyral> it depends on libjack0.100 but dapper has libjack0.80
<LaserJock> Kyral: doesn't segfaul for me in sid
<Kyral> LaserJock, thats because Sid has libjack100
<slomo> Kyral: does it work with the old libjack?
<Kyral> Since its segfaulting I'd say no ;P
<slomo> why do you think this is the problem?
<Kyral> Because when I downloaded the deb from Sid, it wouldn't install due to a depend on libjack0.100
<Kyral> however when I compiled it, it took "libjack" as avirtual package and used libjack0.80
<crimsun> yes, we'll have a mini-transition for JACK
<slomo> that's because the sid package was linked with libjack0.100... but that is doesn't tell us that the segfault is caused by libjack
<crimsun> but until jack 0.100 is merged into main, we can't do anything
<tseng> hi slomo
<tseng> crimsun
<crimsun> hi tseng
<slomo> hi tseng
<Kyral> slomo its the only thing I can think of. LaserJock says it works with his Sid
<Kyral> and it doesn't work when compiled with Dapper using LibJack0.100
<Kyral> only thign I changed was its depend on xlibmesa-gl-dev and xlibmesa-glu-dev, which are replaced by x11proto-gl-dev
<tseng> slomo: i tested the new banshee
<tseng> slomo: it is nice
<slomo> tseng: yes, i know :) i'm running it too
<slomo> tseng: but i'm waiting for new monodoc to built the docs of ipod-sharp ;)
<tseng> and monodoc is waiting on xsp
<slomo> yes... everything is waiting ;)
<slomo> Kyral: well... what tells you it's not an error in libc for example?
<Kyral> nope
<Kyral> it compiles fine
<Kyral> and when I run it from command line just "Segmentation Fault"
<Kyral> I'll hit hit with debbuild and review the output
<slomo> yes but that's no indication that the problem is libjack
<Kyral> slomo I don't know what the problem. I'm just using deduction
<slomo> hehe
<\sh> good late afternoon guys :)
<Kyral> hey \sh
<slomo> Kyral: maybe strace / ltrace it
<slomo> hi \sh :)
<Kyral> slomo, once its done recompiling I will ;P
<\sh> slomo: how is it in germany? :)
<slomo> \sh: boring and rainy... so nothing changed =)
<\sh> slomo: i thought it was sunny and warm?
<slomo> \sh: wasn't in mannheim... where i was until this afternoon ;) i don't know how the weather is here... it was already dark when i arrived here ;) at least it doesn't rain
<Kyral> Bingo its libjack-0.100
<Kyral> strace confirmed it
<slomo> Kyral: fine... good guess before then :)
<Kyral> ty
<Kyral> what should I do with it now then...
<slomo> depends on the actual problem
<slomo> paste it somewhere :)
<Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3893
<slomo> uh?
<Kyral> look at the end ;P
<slomo> that's interesting
<slomo> i'll take a look at that package
<Kyral> kk
<slomo> what was the name? ;)
<Kyral> mixxx
<Kyral> if you use it as it in dapper-sources you'll need to fix the depend problem on xlibmesa-gl-dev
<mindwarp> so if I am working on fixing .desktop files, should I be doing it for dapper or breezy?
<LaserJock> mindwarp: dapper
<mindwarp> ok so no .desktops will be fixed for breezy?
<tseng> no
<slomo> hm, maybe give me your debdiff... i'll work based on that so you'll be mentioned in the changelog ;)
<LaserJock> no the only things going into breezy are security fixes  I believe
<slomo> Kyral
<Kyral> email?
<slomo> Kyral: slomo@ubuntu.com
<slomo> LaserJock: only "critical" stuff... may it be security fixes or a program wiping your harddisk or simply not running ;)
<LaserJock> slomo: right, sorry that is what I meant to say
<slomo> LaserJock: no need to be sorry :P
<Kyral> slomo, sent
<slomo> Kyral: ok :)
<LaserJock> slomo: well i wasn't clear enough
<Kyral> someone remind me to write an XChat-Plugin to integrate with Evolution
<slomo> Kyral?! xchat and evolution? ;) how does this go together?
<Kyral> Just so I would be able to right click on an email addy and have the option to compose mail to the addy in Evolution ;P
<slomo> you can already do that
<slomo> settings/advanced/url-handling
<Kyral> I can? How? Sure ain't showing up in my menu
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> Might I suggest this be enabled by default?
<slomo> sure... fill a bugreport and maybe add a debdiff to that :) i can't do anything for main packages
<Kyral> I'll file a bug report, but I don't know how to control evolution remotely
<slomo> Kyral: evolution foo@bar.com
* Kyral falls down again
<slomo> Kyral: evolution mailto: foo@bar.com
<Kyral> okay okay okay
<slomo> argh
<slomo> without the space ;)
<Kyral> I'll do it later ;P
<Kyral> I'd have to modify the XChat package to do that right?
<slomo> yes
<Kyral> Yah I'll leave that to Main Maintainers (No pun intended)
<slomo> np
<Kyral> hmm, Launchpad or Bugzilla....
<slomo> hmm, LP probably
<Kyral> cool
<slomo> but i'm not sure ;)
<Kyral> I'll file it then immeadiatly mark it Wishlist
<Kyral> ain't that critical ;P
<Kyral> gah the binary package isn't in FP
<Kyral> err LP ;P
<slomo> only sourcepackages are
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> I'm used to smashing bugs, not filing them ;P
<Kyral> filed and wishlisted
<mindwarp> does debhelper take care of moving the .desktop file automagically, or do I need to do it manually in the rules file?
<slomo> manually
<Kyral> Anyone know what the package name of Add Remove Programs is?
<Kyral> Some guy on the ABT Forum accidently nuked it and wants it back..and I can't find it
<Amaranth> gnome-app-install
<Kyral> ty
<Amaranth> reinstalling ubuntu-desktop would get the package back
<Amaranth> or did it actually manually delete the files?
<Kyral> Its more like he installed KDE then uninstalled it
<Kyral> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=84683
<slomo> Kyral: paste the output of ldd `which mixxx` somewhere please :)
<Kyral> I removed it :P
<Kyral> /usr/bin/mixxx
<slomo> note the ldd before it :P
<Kyral> why is it giving me a different strace now....ohhhh....I forgot to reinstall the ubuntu data pack. Still Segfaults
<slomo> yes but give me the output of ldd please ;)
<Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3897
<slomo> and strace still gives you the missing libjack 0.100?
<Kyral> nope. I made a mistake and still had the Debian Data pack installed when I made that trace *embarrassed*
<slomo> oh
<slomo> what does it give you now?
<slomo> (i don't want to install qt :P )
<Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3898
<slomo> ok, nothing easy without gdb
<Kyral> you want me to recompile it with debug symbols and give you the output from gdb?
<slomo> you should get a fairly useful backtrace with gdb without debug symbol
<slomo> s
<Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3899
<Kyral> backtrace ;P
<slomo> distributed debugging ;)
<Kyral> eh?
<slomo> nm... anyway, that backtrace is NOT useful :P
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> sorry
<slomo> isn't your fault :)
<slomo> but why is this program using opengl? what does it do? ;)
<Kyral> Its a music mixing program from the sound of it
<Kyral> a "Digital DJ System"
<Kyral> now i have to remember how to compile a deb with Debug symbols
<slomo> ok, i actually have no idea ;)
<slomo> that's not symbol-related
<Amaranth> it's an env variable
<slomo> you won't get a better backtrace with debugging symbols
<slomo> there's something really wrong there
<Amaranth> stack corruption?
<Kyral> x11proto-gl-dev is a compatiable replacement to the xlibmesa dev packs right?
<slomo> looks like it
<slomo> Kyral: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGLUTransition
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> I'll try rebuilding with those
<mindwarp> if I alter a .deb, what is the format of the new package.diff.gz? just diff between the 2 dirs gzipped?
<slomo> yes
<Kyral> wham bam same problem
<Kyral> I really wanna mark this as FTBFS
<mindwarp> ftbfs?
<Kyral> Failure To Build(an installable package) From Source
<Kyral> slomo, can you agree with me that this package is ****ed up?
<slomo> Kyral: which? mixxx?
<Kyral> yah
<slomo> yes
<slomo> probably
<Kyral> ty
<slomo> either mixxx or one of it dependencies
<Kyral> Someone put it on the FTBFS list, I need to go study
<slomo> well...
<slomo> builds now ;)
<Kyral> It builds, but no exec
<Kyral> ain't that what a FTBFS is?
<slomo> no
<Kyral> oh whoops X_X
<slomo> FTBFS is when it can't be build from source
<slomo> this can be build... but it doesn't work
<Kyral> so its just "RFU"
<slomo> ?
<Kyral> Royally ****ed Up ;P
<slomo> hehe
<mindwarp> how to I change the version # of the package I am fixing, I am using  pbuilder build, I changed the version in the changelog and dsc file
<mindwarp> but when the package builds it is still named the previous version
<slomo> mindwarp: changelog
<mindwarp> I edited the debian/changelog file
<slomo> and you added a new entry at the top with the new version number?
<mindwarp> yes, is it sensitive to the types of tabs used (I used spaces instead)?
<slomo> yes... spaces are correct
<slomo> when you've done something wrong with that dpkg-parsechangelog would have told you
<mindwarp> ok for reference too, is the only file I need to change the changelog?
<mindwarp> or was I right in editing the dsc?
<slomo> the dsc is creating automatically
<mindwarp> gotcha
<mindwarp> just when I use pbuilder I must specify a dsc
<slomo> you only change stuff in the sourcetree and run debuild to create dsc, diff.gz and tar.gz
<farruinn> does debuild do the same thing as dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S?
<slomo> farruinn: yes... use whatever you like ;)
<slomo> farruinn: i use dpkg-buildpackage too... but many people seem to prefer debuild
<farruinn> it's less typing
<farruinn> the reading that I've done though has given examples with dpkg-buildpackage though
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-06
<mindwarp> should I be using pbuilder debuild | pbuilder build?
<LaserJock> mindwarp: I do debuild -S in the source directory that I am working in and then do pbuilder build on the resulting .dsc
<LaserJock> but that's just me so ...
<jamessan> I usually just use pdebuild
<slomo> ok, gn8 everybody :)
<mindwarp> slomo - ok you want the .diff.gz file?
<LaserJock> good night slomo
<LaserJock> mindwarp: you probably want to make a debdiff. Try debdiff 1stfile.dsc 2ndfile.dsc
<mindwarp> can someone take a look a www.mindwarp.net/files and see if the changes to agistudio are correct (added .desktop and icon references)
<ajmitch> bug list is growing longer.. :)
<crimsun> that's cause for weeping, no?
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> and I'm < 1000 karma again
<crimsun> dang
<ajmitch> oh I've had worse things happen :)
<farruinn> if one package A is labelled as replacing package B, and package C depends on package B, will A be used instead? (sorry if that's confusing)
<ajmitch> if A Provides B
<farruinn> I was just looking at this bug and it seems like it should be a trivial fix: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/3145
<farruinn> although I think siretart said at UBZ that MOTU isn't making changes to breezy anymore?
<tseng> that is true
<ajmitch> farruinn: yep
<ajmitch> and that package should _not_ do Provides
<farruinn> ok, so this is probably pointless, but just for referece - libofx2 does replace libofx0c102, right? So how is that situation handled so that dependencies aren't broken?
<Mithrandir> dependencies _are_ broken.  That's the point of sonames
<Mithrandir> you rebuild anything depending on what you changed
<ajmitch> libofx2 is missing a proper replaces, yes we know about it, brown paper bag & all
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: libofx2 shouldn't Replace libofx0c102.
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: what should it do, then?
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: it should not ship binaries in /usr/bin, those should be in a -common package, it should put the docs in /usr/share/doc/$packagename, not somewhere else and you would have no reason to conflict.
<Mithrandir> s/conflict/replace
<ajmitch> agreed
<ajmitch> but we didn't want to make that change the day before release, but it turns out we got it wrong anyway :)
<Mithrandir> but given that the package is buggy, Replaces is the right thing.
<mindwarp> wow those people in #ubuntu scare me
<mindwarp> nuck do i need to reinstall? and which package? i'd rather reinstall than change system time
<mindwarp> apparently linux is so easy to install now, even more so than changing the time on the system
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> any MOTUs around who want to review a package?
<Mez> nvm
<Mez> I need to fix it anyways
<mindwarp> I need a MOTU to review a package also
<Mez> mindwarp: I can probably look in a mo
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Lathiat> hey sistpoty
<siretart> sistpoty: huhu
<siretart> sistpoty: great that you are around
<sistpoty> hi siretart... how's ubz?
<siretart> sistpoty: we spec'ed revu2 :)
<siretart> great :)
<sistpoty> cool
<siretart> sistpoty: you definitly need to review our spec
<siretart> sistpoty: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU2Spec
<siretart> please review and tell us what we forgot :)
* sistpoty looks
<siretart> we need approval from UBZ Reviewers :)
<mez_> ajmitch: if you want someone to sign your key, I'll be more than happy o
<mez_> though I'm sure you'll have more than one person :D
<siretart> sistpoty: I need to leave really soon, we'll get out to get some food
<siretart> sistpoty: if you notice anything which needs to be added, add it to the wiki and leave me a note.
<sistpoty> siretart: ok... looks really good.
<siretart> :)
<siretart> thanks for reviewing :)
<sistpoty> siretart: just found one small thing:  Possible actions for Reviewers: +mark tested for an architecture
<siretart> great idea, could you add that to the wiki?
<siretart> I need to leave now
<siretart> thanks
<sistpoty> sure...
<sistpoty> hf ;)
<siretart> :)
<siretart> cu
<sistpoty> cyqa
<sistpoty> -q
<mindwarp> any motu want to check out a package I made?
<crimsun> mindwarp: url?
<mindwarp> crimsun - http://www.mindwarp.net/files
<mindwarp> crimsun - i also have the .debs but I was told just to post the diffs
<crimsun> mindwarp: actually we prefer debdiffs
<crimsun> generate a debdiff on the original and your new .dscs
<mindwarp> crimsun - ok the diff I have posted there isn't a debdiff right?
<sistpoty> mindwarp: a debdiff is a diff over two source packages, generated by debdiff old.changes new.changes (for example)
<sistpoty> mindwarp: btw.: i took a glimpse at agistudio. please use -Xubuntu0 as version scheme, otherwise you'll steal versions from the dd
<sistpoty> mindwarp: and there is a newer version for this in unstable. eventually you might want to take a look at that ;)
<mindwarp> ok will do.  Just to clarify, do you want me to diff the original source package (which wouldnt reflect the current ubuntu changes) or do you want me to diff the ubuntu diff?
<LaserJock> mindwarp: you have the orginal source .dsc file and a new .dsc file that you made right?
<mindwarp> ah ok
<sistpoty> actually the best would be to debdiff to the latest ubuntu package (the one in dapper i guess) to your package (just debdiff *changes). If you then name this s.th. like package_oldversion_newversion.debdiff that would be even better ;)
<mindwarp> so I guess I need to upgrade to dapper since it will be a pain to do that all in a chroot?
<sistpoty> mindwarp: i wouldn't really upgrade to dapper yet... just grab the source package from the repo ;)
<LaserJock> mindwarp: you can make a dapper pbuilder and download the source from packages.ubuntu.com or packages.debian.org and build it in your dapper pbuilder
<mindwarp> yeah I just put 2+2 together in my head on that one
<mindwarp> I promise to catch on faster in the future
<LaserJock> mindwarp: no problem, I am just learning myself :-)
<mindwarp> sistpoty - what should I name my diff?
<mindwarp> or is there a scheme of some sort in place?
<Kyral> mindwarp, I usually name my debdiffs <PACKAGE>.debdiff
<sistpoty> mindwarp: there is no scheme... but if you read the name, you should know about the package and the two versions ;)
<sistpoty> mindwarp: or at least the version of the old package, since you need that one to generate the new ;)
<mindwarp> well if I named my 1.2.1-5ubuntu0 doesn't that imply that it is against 1.2.1-5?
<sistpoty> mindwarp: no
<sistpoty> mindwarp: just in case you took the latest debian version which might have been newer than the latest ubuntu one
<mindwarp> ok I have the files at www.mindwarp.net/files/ubuntu/agistudio, and the diff in question is agistudio_1.2.1-5desktopfix.diff
<mindwarp> err .debdiff
<sistpoty> mindwarp: you should call dh_desktop prior to dh_builddeb, otherwise this will have no effect (probably after dh_installchangelogs would be a good place)
<sistpoty> mindwarp: and the cp -a don't work (wrong path that you try to copy to; should be in install target)
<sistpoty> mindwarp: desktop file should use absolute path for icon
<mindwarp> from wiki:     *
<mindwarp>       For the .desktop file, list the icon by the relative path program.xpm rather than an absolute one to allow for user changes to the icon.
<mindwarp> thanks for the help
<mindwarp> I will fix the dh_builddeb and cp -a 's
<sistpoty> np ;)
<LaserJock_> mindwarp: you got this .desktop thing down now?
<mindwarp> I think so, am going to edit my rules file once more and it should be good to go
<LaserJock_> cool, when you get it down would you mind putting some of you main discoveries on the wiki?
<mindwarp> sure thing
* sistpoty needs some sleep now...
<sistpoty> gn8 all
<LaserJock> good night
<mindwarp> night
<bmonty_laptop> hey everyone
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty_laptop> hows it going?
<LaserJock> pretty good
<LaserJock> I'm working on a presentation for tomorrow
<LaserJock> I wish I didn't have so much RL work to do
<bmonty_laptop> you are a grad student, right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<crimsun> heh, I have a poster presentation tomorrow, too
<crimsun> silly NSF
<LaserJock> crimsun: tell me about it ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> are you working on a masters or phd?
<LaserJock> Phd
<schweeb> crimsun: NSF is a swear word in my vocab... it's the lotus notes mailbox file extension :(
<bmonty_laptop> that is too much school for me :)
<schweeb> hell, a bachelor's was too much school for me
<LaserJock> I've been working on a fellowship proposal for NSF EPSCoR that was due today and I have to do a departmental presentation tomorrow
<crimsun> schweeb: heh, you haven't seen notes 7, have you?
<schweeb> crimsun: isn't it still beta?  we're using 6.5
<bmonty_laptop> Last time I used notes was in 1998....it sucked
<crimsun> haha, we weren't even using 6.5 when I was with IBM
<schweeb> it's not gotten any better
<schweeb> IBM still uses 6.5
<schweeb> at least in the division my buddy's in
<crimsun> not STG, no sir
<schweeb> STG?
<crimsun> systems & technology group
<schweeb> ahh
<crimsun> it does also depend on dept, but I know my coworkers made sure I avoided 6.5 like the plague
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: don't you do chemistry?
<mindwarp> how do I install a package in my pbuilder chroot to make sure it worked/
<crimsun> I usually avoid that
<bmonty_laptop> mindwarp: you can bindmount the directory with the package and then use dpkg to install it
<crimsun> I have a separate chroot for that
<bmonty_laptop> or...you can build an apt archive and use apt-get
<schweeb> crimsun: is 7 actually any good?
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: yes, I am a physical chemist
<schweeb> they just migrated from 6 -> 6.5 about 6 months ago when I joined
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: what are you researching?
<crimsun> schweeb: think 6 on crack. If you didn't like 6, welp, chances are you'll dislike 7 intensely
<schweeb> crimsun: I have outlook through EDS, which I forward all my mail to
<schweeb> which helps me keep my sanity
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: In a nutshell, I am trying to detect the world's smallest motor
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: I have a masters in engineering...you can be a little more technical than that :)
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: ok well, a synthetic chemistry is making a molecular motor that is <1nm in size
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: I have to detect that they work and if the rotate clockwise or counterclockwise
<mindwarp> so whats the quickest way for me to test a package for dapper on breezy without killing my pbuilder chroot?
<LaserJock> mindwarp: dapper chroot
<mindwarp> is there a quick wiki entry on that?
<LaserJock> mindwarp: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<bmonty_laptop> mindwarp: there are wikis on usig pbuilder and on making an archive
<mindwarp> yeah I already have a pbuilder chroot
<mindwarp> but I probably shouldnt taint it from what I gather
<bmonty_laptop> mindwarp: installing a package doesn't taint the chroot
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: so if you can detect the motors, can they do anything useful?
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: well, kinda. We are going to insert them into DNA and do some testing of their mechanical properties (torque and efficiency mostly)
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: then hopefully they can be used as a nanoswitch, chemical/biological threat sensor (I am presently working on this), and microfluidics
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: cool stuff...I hope you are successful
<crimsun> may you continue to be funded
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: me too or I will never get my PhD
<crimsun> that's the blessing we use
<Kyral> And another one joins the fold
<LaserJock> crimsun: well Harry Reid and Homeland Security have been helping there ;-)
<crimsun> heheh
<Kyral> I just got someone else to convert over to Ubuntu. Her comment after I installed Breezy and showed her how to do stuff "That was COOL! Why don't more people use Linux?"
<mindwarp> yeah actually I have had a lot more luck with females than males
<Kyral> Boy meets world in the spirit of Ubuntu
* bmonty_laptop leaves mindwarp's last comment alone
<tritium> LaserJock, when do you expect to finish?
<LaserJock> tritium: you can't ask a grad student that ;p
<tritium> LaserJock, sure you can.  I had a 3 year deadline ;)
<LaserJock> tritium: probably in a year
<tritium> Cool...
<LaserJock> maybe 2 or 3 or ...
<tritium> Good luck!
<crimsun> "as long as there's funding" == best answer
<tritium> indeed
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: you wanna see my proposal?
<LaserJock> crimsun: well more like
<LaserJock> "when I find a job"
<crimsun> mm postdoc
<crimsun> always gonna be someone's slave
<LaserJock> crimsun: that's right
<LaserJock> but I will be a better paid slave ;-)
<mindwarp> someone want to test my new agistudio to see if it installs the .desktop and xpm icon?
<mindwarp> http://www.mindwarp.net/files/ubuntu/agistudio
<crimsun> dpkg-deb -c agistudio_1.2.1-5ubuntu0_i386.deb|grep .desktop ; echo $?
<crimsun> 1
<tritium> Will there be UBZ proceedings?
<Kyral> Monitor Launchpad
<crimsun> /usr/share/agistudio/agistudio.xpm does exist, though
<tritium> Kyral, oh, where?
<crimsun> mindwarp: so no, the .desktop does not exist (and thus wasn't installed properly)
<Kyral> Somewhere in Specifications
<tritium> Thanks, Kyral
<Kyral> Hey crimsun you are the head of the xubuntu project right?
<mindwarp> crimsun - I have it in the /debian dir of the package, should it be somewhere else to be included?
<crimsun> mindwarp: it needs to be copied over to usr/share/applications/
<crimsun> Kyral: jani and I are the MOTUs, yes, but we don't head it per se
<mindwarp> in rules I have a install line that copies it there
<Kyral> crimsun, ah, I just wanted to know if you all needed help with Xubuntu
<mindwarp> is there anything special I have to do to make sure it is in the .deb file?
<crimsun> Kyral: absolutely
<Kyral> 'cause I <3 XFCE :D
<crimsun> topic of #xubuntu has info
<crimsun> mindwarp: state the command you use to copy the .desktop file to the correct place
<Kyral> So someone needs to build all the packages not marked with "Completed"?
<Kyral> nm that page is a month other
<mindwarp> under install: build I have install -o root -g root -m 644 debian/agistudio.desktop /usr/share/applications/
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> old ;P
<crimsun> mindwarp: eeek
<crimsun> mindwarp: you want to install it to $foo/usr/share/applications/
<mindwarp> with foo being?
<crimsun> what compatibility level are you using for debhelper/
<mindwarp> 4
<crimsun> then it's debian/agistudio/usr/share/applications/
<Kyral> Icky might I suggest Xubuntu not use ESD...
<mindwarp> same with the xpm path I assume?
<crimsun> mindwarp: that should go into /usr/share/icons/
<mindwarp> not debian/agistudio/usr/share/icons/ ?
<crimsun> mindwarp: err, yes, that
<mindwarp> ok and the wiki tells me use pixmaps and not icons
<mindwarp> which is correct?
<crimsun> Kyral: I don't believe it will. I don't plan to carry the esd monster into 6.04, at least.
<crimsun> mindwarp: the wiki is
<crimsun> debian/agistudio/usr/share/pixmaps/
<crimsun> mindwarp: make sure the .desktop doesn't have a hard-coded Icon path
<mindwarp> crimsun - when I try the debian/agistudio/usr/share/pixmaps/ in the file it doesn't work because: cannot create regular fine 'debian/agistudio/usr/share/pixmaps/': Is a directory
<crimsun> mindwarp: you're missing the destination
<crimsun> debian/agistudio/usr/share/pixmaps/foo.desktop
<crimsun> read install's man page. You may find it easier to use -D
<mindwarp> and if I do that it will place the file in /usr/share/pixmaps/foo.desktop?
<mindwarp> well I copied the syntax exactly from the xchat file
<mindwarp> so I was pretty sure it was correct
<crimsun> as an aside, you don't need -o or -g
<crimsun> install is only one way; feel free to use cp
<crimsun> back later.
<mindwarp> real quick before you leave
<mindwarp> so if compatibility level is 4, dpkg will replace the debian/agistudio/usr/share/pixmaps with /usr/share/pixmaps
<crimsun> mindwarp: no, that's done by dh_movefiles, generally
<crimsun> mindwarp: the compat level is significant for other reasons, as you'll see in the associated dh_ man pages
<mindwarp> I think I fixed it by putting the files and destinations in the .install file
<crimsun> sure, you can do that
<zyga> morning
<pef> hello
<shawarma> is anyone here using the gnome-power-manager thing instead of the default one? Can you see how much time is left on your battery?
<Nafallo> shawarma: not in dapper atleast. and it thinks I eth0 is power.
<shawarma> Nafallo_away: Er... eth0? Power?
<shawarma> Nafallo_away: wtf?
<Nafallo> shawarma: my thought exactly :-P
<Nafallo> shawarma: I remove the tp and g-p-m says I'm on battery :-)
<Nafallo> atleast if I've removed the powercord already :-)
<zakame> hi all
<Mirno> zakame: hello, I say
<zakame> hmmm, in a make rule, can I use something like k=$(uname -r); echo $$k
<zakame> ?
<zakame> instead of k=`uname -r`; echo $$k
<zyga> zakame: technically yes but read the fine print on how to do this
<slomo> zakame: maybe you want K=$(shell uname -r)?
<zakame> slomo: can that be done under a rule?  I was under the impression that your example above will work only on Make variables
<slomo> yes
<slomo> not in a rule
<zakame> oh, cool
<slomo> but why do you want it in a rule and not as a global variable?
<zakame> so, I can still use that as a $$k
<slomo> hm
<Yagisan> G'day, any powerpc users here with a breezy pbuilder that could do me a favour ?
<slomo> Yagisan: depends on what you want tested ;)
<Yagisan> slomo: beta3 of deng
<Yagisan> slomo. I would be very happy if you could build it, and mail/dcc the .deb and the buildlog back
<zakame> hmm, do I need to call ldconfig in a shlib package's postrm?
<Mithrandir> shlib package?
<Mithrandir> packages shipping libraries need to call ldconfig in the post{inst,rm}, yes.
<\sh> ajmitch: send me your scripts dude :)
<zakame> Mithrandir: okies, thanks :)  I'm packaging libmemcache...
<Mithrandir> zakame: debhelper should give you that, though
<zakame> Mithrandir: I'm not using debhelper, but Manoj's debian-dir :)
<tseng> slomo: i am using mc all the time now that you started talking about it
<zyga> oh right
<zyga> slomo: I've found a bug in the utf8 handling
<zyga> slomo: I still need to check where the bug originates but tips (at the bottom of the screen) are messed up
<Yagisan> tseng: you never used it before ?
<zyga> I recon bad .po file but that could be not the case
<tseng> Yagisan: nope.
<Yagisan> tseng: it's wonderful, I think it should go to main
<tseng> it doesnt look so wonderful in screen
<tseng> on this box
<Yagisan> yeah, and on the linux console on my box it don't look so good either
<Lathiat> yeh something with consoles makes lots of apps using those line drawing characters foobarred
<Lathiat> i think its the font that set
<Lathiat> the linux kernel stuff always messes up too
<Lathiat> menuconfig, ncurses
<slomo> tseng: hehe, any bugs found? :)
<slomo> zyga: i'll take a look later
<tseng> hm it just looks like crap in screen
<tseng> it shows []  boxes instead of lines
<tseng> you know what i mean
<slomo> yes... was it like that before?
* Lathiat does
<zyga> slomo: I'll have a look in a moment RL job bugs me ATM
<tseng> i dont know
<zyga> tseng: export TERM=linux
<slomo> tseng: works in screen here... in an xterm
<zyga> tseng: (before running mc)
<tseng> zyga: no luck
<slomo> tseng: in a vt?
<tseng> actuall yi was already doing that
<tseng> slomo: ssh
* zyga gets mc's source
<tseng> term        linux
<tseng> my screen isnt set for utf8, thought
<slomo> then that's probably the problem
<tseng> testing
<tseng> nope
<slomo> can you please retest with 1:4.6.1-1?
<tseng> eh it works
<slomo> ok, then i broke it ;) hmm, give me hints how i can reproduce this
<tseng> no you didnt :P
<Lathiat> anyone know procmail to forward a mail to another address?
<Lathiat> bounce style
<slomo> zyga: can you give me a screenshot of your problem?
<zyga> slomo: sure
<slomo> zyga: thanks... maybe i've fixed this already with my next upload ;)
<zyga> http://ubuntu.suxx.pl
<zyga> slomo: check it out
<slomo> yes... this is fixed ;)
<slomo> are you on x86?
<zyga> slomo: cool, what was the issue?
<zyga> slomo: amongst others :)
<slomo> the hints file was still not utf8
<zyga> slomo: right
<slomo> ok, i can send you a x86 deb when you want to test if it is really fixed ;)
<zyga> slomo: sure
<zyga> slomo: or wait
<zyga> slomo: I'll fix that file and rebuild locally
<slomo> zyga: but first i have to fix some other problems
<jamessan|work> Lathiat: is that not what the ! action does?
<slomo> zyga: iconv -f oldencoding -t UTF-8 mc.hint.pl > tmp && mv tmp mc.hint.pl should be enough
<zyga> slomo: latin2-to-utf8 :-)
<zyga> slomo: I've got some useful macros here :)
<zyga> (latin2-to-ut8f is a symlinc to /usr/bin/transcode that analyzes it's name and performs the conversion)
<slomo> transcode?!
<zyga> slomo: I know, a name collision
<zyga> slomo: it's my own script, I didn't know transcode was used back then
<slomo> hehe ok, nm :)
<zyga> s/it's/its/
<zyga> slomo: that has fixed the problem :)
<zyga> slomo: thanks
<slomo> zyga: what is your locale?
<zyga> slomo: pl_PL.UTF-8
<slomo> zyga: ok, works with your locale here too... uploaded :)
<zyga> slomo: cool, thanks :-)
<slomo> zyga: np :)
<lifeless> n/win 66
<shawarma> Can someone on a laptop running on battery please run "hal-get-property --udi /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/acpi_BAT0 --key battery.remaining_time" for me? (If you unplug the power cord to do this, you have to wait more than 30 seconds for HAL to actually figure out that you've unplugged it)
<shawarma> Anyone? please?
<Lathiat> lathiat@qaplaH:~$ hal-get-property --udi /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/acpi_BAT0 --key battery.remaining_time
<Lathiat> 15099
<Lathiat> lathiat@qaplaH:~$ acpi
<Lathiat>      Battery 1: discharging, 99%, 04:34:23 remaining
<shawarma> Lathiat: Great. Thanks.
<shawarma> Anyone else?
<Lathiat> appears to be seconds
<Lathiat> with the power in
<Lathiat> the command fiails
<Lathiat> no such property
<Lathiat> fyi
<shawarma> Lathiat: It is. I've just found a bug in HAL and I need to see if it's a general thing.
* Lathiat nods
<shawarma> Lathiat: right. I know.
<shawarma> Lathiat: What about the battery.reporting.rate property?
<Lathiat> 31122
<Lathiat> plugged in
* Lathiat unplugs
<Lathiat> now 0
* Lathiat waits a bit more
<shawarma> Interesting.
<shawarma> Lathiat: What does it read now?
<shawarma> Lathiat: Does your battery really hold for 4 and a half hours?
* ajmitch waves to \sh 
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<Kyral> Anyone have time to answer a quick IPTables question?
<slomo> sure
<slomo> if i know the answer ;)
<Kyral> I know that specifying "XXX.XXX.0.0/16" will allow conns from the XXX.XXX
<Kyral> but how do I restrict it to XXX.XXX.XXX.0?
<Kyral> do I put /8?
<slomo> yes
<Kyral> Okay. I'm trying to lock IPTables down to a certain block ;P
<Kyral> I can lock in different rules for computers :D
<Kyral> and if I just want a single IP I put ***.***.***.***?
<slomo> yes
<ajmitch> xxx.xxx.xxx.0 is /24, not /8
<ajmitch> 24 bits in network portion
<Kyral> so I put 24 if I want only computers from ***.***.*** to connect?
<ajmitch> yes
<Kyral> Now I need to learn how to specify a protocol (SSH, FTP, etc)
<slomo> ajmitch: thanks for correcting me ;)
<ivoks> hello
<Kyral> oh I just use --dport <protocol>
<ivoks> iptables?
<Kyral> yah ;P
<Kyral> Trying to lock down my computer as much as possible ;D
<ivoks> it is by default
<Kyral> Yah but I run SSH and whatnot
<Kyral> so I'm restricting stuff basically to a few computer labs on campus
<ajmitch> Kyral: limit what users can login via ssh as well
<ajmitch> afternoon bradb
<Kyral> ajmitch I'm the only one who ssh in :P
<ajmitch> Kyral: so put that in the ssh config
<Kyral> and my Hosts files only allow me in ;P
* Kyral looks over
<LaserJock> kinda stupid question but what's the difference between hosts.allow/hosts.deny and something like IPtables?
<bradb> ajmitch: hey dude
<Kyral> Accepting SSH and FTP from computer labs, check. Accepting current connections (until I figure out how to tune for AIM and IRC) check. Drop everything else, CHECK!
<Kyral> well thats done :D
<Kyral> Single user system with so many safeguards, Yep I'm paranoid ;P
<Kyral> Anwyay back to class
<selinium> Hi all, i was in here a few days ago, As a wannabe I have install pbuilder, sorted out my GPG key. Where do I go from here?
* selinium watches as the tumbleweed drifts through the channel.......
<slomo> selinium: right now almost everybody is at UBZ ;) but you could do bugfixing... look at malone for some bugs you could fix... when you want something uploaded ping me
<selinium> slomo: Oh yeah! That would be it! Forgot about UBZ... :) I am gonna need some mentoring at the outset so I will be back to bother people in a few days! :)
<slomo> selinium: well, i have nothing to do atm :) if you have any questions feel free to ask me
<selinium> slomo: ok Cheers
* Kyral shakes his head
<Kyral> who the hell ordered the rainstorm?
<Kyral> Yah! Me happy! First package that I fixed got uploaded :D
<Mez> got any more debdiffs you've fixed?
<Mez> and are you whitelisted?
<Kyral> "whitelisted"?
<Mez> did you get an email from katie?
<Kyral> Seeing as I don't know who that is, nope
<Kyral> I'm still not a member :/
<Mez> ok, well... fixed anything more recently
<Kyral> I recall fixing a typo
* Kyral goes to check Malone
<Mez> Kyral: in vm ?
<Kyral> Oyah >_<
<Kyral> There was something else though
<Mez> was it in vm ?
<Kyral> nope
<Kyral> Okay, I can't get to the MOTU buglist on Malone
<Mez> https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs
<Kyral> I know. Its just not loading for me
<Kyral> Got it
<Kyral> very minor thing
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/phpldapadmin/+bug/3361
<Kyral> I am suddenly reminded that i have to sign orga's GPG Key
<Mez> Kyral: are you actually here?
<ogra> Kyral, no hurry, i wont do that either before i got home
<Mez> and why do you need to sign it?
<Kyral> No, I'm back to Potsdam
<Kyral> I was there for Love Day
<Mez> ah
<Kyral> ogra, okay. I'm really busy this week so I have to remember ;P
<ogra> i'll remind you :)
<Kyral> ty
<Kyral> anyway Mez can you upload that debdiff?
<Mez> you need to do it from ubuntu not sid
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> the Sid version was upgraded ;P
<Mez> use the breezy version :d
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> dangit I need to use Breezy sources now
<Kyral> Oh Mez, are you and JDong gonna need help with Backports this "season"?
<Kyral> two Mez lol
<Kyral> wb
<Kyral> Didja get my last line?
<Mez> dunno
<Kyral> I was wondering if the Backports Team could use help this "season"?
<Mez> er i dont know yet
<Mez> but - we like people to be MOTU before backports
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> thanks anyway
<dholbach> can anybody ping me, if something important happens in the TB meeting?
<dholbach> like ping me?
<pef> dholbach: what is important for you ? ;)
<dholbach> you guys :)
<Kyral> lol
<pef> :] 
<Kyral> hey umm, does gnome-app-install have to depend on Firefox?
<ajmitch> hello bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> hey ajmitch
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch: am I too late for the meeting?>
<ajmitch> congrats siretart :)
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: ask quickly
<opi> hi guys
<siretart> thanks guys!
<opi> just one question
<opi> I'm building package off the Subversion trunk
<opi> is there any way to let the package name end up with YYYYMMDD instead of version?
<Kyral> what happened?
<tseng> opi: please dont
<tseng> opi: its irreversable
<opi> tseng, even for my own use?
<opi> tseng, how to deal with such pacakge
<tseng> 0.1.2+svn20051021 is better
<tseng> 0.1.3 actually replaces it
<opi> uhm
<opi> so
<opi> I have to change it manually?
<tseng> im not sure i understand
<opi> I have a script that pulls trunk and packages it
<tseng> not a debian dir?
<opi> no, no
<opi> I'm polling code
<opi> then I dpkg-buildpackage
<opi> +do
<opi> but I'd like to not have change control file everytime just to change data string
<ivoks> guys... i'm sorry, last few weeks i'm not so active in motu team
<ivoks> i had so much work with loco team from croatia
<ivoks> but as soon as it gets self substained, i'll get to work :/
<tseng> im not sure what the control file has to do with the version
<tseng> version in in the changelog
<tseng> which should be changed every time
<ivoks> tseng: right
<opi> tseng, Um. Package name, then? :)
<tseng> ivoks: for opi, but thanks but agreeing
<tseng> opi: uh?
<tseng> Package name != version
<tseng> version is pulled from the changelog
<tseng> and revision
<ivoks> tseng: i know, i'm backing you up :)
* opi heading quietly to reread debian.org/doc 
<tseng> google debian new maint
<opi> Naa, have it in bookmarks
<Kyral> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html
<Kyral> So do I ;P
<opi> Kyral, but I bet you've read it more carefully then I did ;))
<dholbach> who worked with bmonty and pef... can you speak up in #ubuntu-meeting?
<koke> w0w my karma has doubled since yesterday
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch: you still around?
<tseng> =/
<ivoks> :(
<tseng> lameness
<ivoks> bmonty_laptop: don't get discouraged
<ivoks> bmonty_laptop: if you need help, i'm here often and have plenty of time
<ivoks> bmonty_laptop: ask and i'll help you
<slomo> bmonty_laptop: same here... when you want something uploaded just tell me :)
<LaserJock> >:(
<bmonty_laptop> thanks guys
<LaserJock> maybe it is just a timezone thing?
<Tonio_> hi everyone
<bmonty_laptop> I wonder where \sh and ajmitch went
<LaserJock> and bddebian
<ivoks> bmonty_laptop: they worked with you?
<ajmitch> very sorry, I was trying to do keysigning with \sh
<bmonty_laptop> ivoks: yes
<dholbach> bmonty_laptop: sorry... it's just that i saw you working hard with bddebian in those days, and i wasn't much around... so that's all i could say
<Tonio_> does anyone know a "simple" way to switch between a breezy and a dapper configuration for pbuilder ?
<bmonty_laptop> dholbach: no worries
<dholbach> bmonty_laptop: as tseng and ivoks said: keep up the good work, we'll get you there :)
<tseng> im a fan
<marcin> hi guys
<pef> dholbach Riddell thank you again for being present on meeting, I'm very proud to got promoted :] 
<marcin> I know that it's not #ubuntu channel but there is no one that could help - so sorry but I'll try to get some help here
<marcin> the thing is that I use pl_PL locales with UTF-8 encoding or iso-8859-3
<marcin> s/iso-8859-3/iso-8859-2
<marcin> and everything is ok on terminal, console and in gnome-terminal
<marcin> but the problem is that in Xterm I don't have polish letters just empty spaces
<crimsun> Tonio_: keep two different pbuilders each with its own config
<Tonio_> dholbach: it appears that I missed this meeting too ;)
<marcin> and my question is - what should I change in Xterm settings to get polish letter in xterm
<dholbach> Tonio_: :-(
<Tonio_> crimsun: thanks.... that's what I do today, but well, that's not very convenient ;)
<Tonio_> dholbach: no pb that'll be okay for the next one :)
<dholbach> yeah, you do that :)
<Tonio_> dholbach: the most important thing is that I have many new packages to upload ;)
<dholbach> :)))
<dholbach> i'll be off for some minutes
<dholbach> see you guys later
<pef> dholbach: bye !
<pef> have to go to bed, bye !
<siretart> if anyone has some time left, please review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU2Spec#preview
<slomo> siretart: will do right now ;)
<siretart> slomo: great
<siretart> slomo: reviews will be in about an hour, I switched it to pending review in lp
<LaserJock> siretart: looks pretty cool from a MOTU wannabe's (or contributor's ) perspective ;-)
<siretart> LaserJock: thanks :)
<LaserJock> siretart: is the current REVU at http://revu.tauware.de/ ?
<LaserJock> or is that REVU2
<slomo> siretart: what do you mean with " Overview of pages that need upload"?
<slomo> siretart: s/pages/packages/?
<LaserJock> slomo: isn't that like UniverseCandidates
<siretart> gnarf. the intendention got broke :/
<slomo> siretart: except this point and a cosmetical thing (look at the sentence with tiber... you mention two times that we run a prototype) it looks perfect to me ;)
<siretart> slomo: I did some updates
<siretart> again
<slomo> ok *reload*
<slomo> siretart: ok with me
<LaserJock> siretart: how well is this going to work for bug fixing and other things for packages already in Ubuntu?
<LaserJock> siretart: It seems more geared towards new packages
<shawarma> siretart: Hey, just heard the news. Congrats!
<slomo> LaserJock: imho not... it helps reviewing updates and new packages the same way ;) updates will even get a debdiff to what we currently have in the archives
<LaserJock> siretart: could you maybe seperate the listing into new packages and packages already in Universe?
<LaserJock> ^^@slomo too
<slomo> LaserJock: it's already done in the prototype... updates are above the new packages
<slomo> i believe it will be done the same for revu2
<LaserJock> when I go to http://revu.tauware.de/  I don't see a version column, will that be available
<slomo> LaserJock: new packages are the ones with the lamp before them
<slomo> hub: are you there?
<LaserJock> ohhhh, see it would be a cool thing to have a legend up top ;-)
<slomo> LaserJock: yes ;) but for now... stay over the image and wait for the tooltip :P
<LaserJock> ok, cool. much better. But what about a version column? I think that would be nice. Of course maybe it's not practical
<slomo> hm, i don't really see the use of a version column
<hub> slomo: here.
<hub> slomo: at ubz
<slomo> hub: about the avahi-discover bug... let's try to debug it :) do you have some time for that?
<LaserJock> slomo: hm, how do you know if somebody has uploaded a new version of a package?
<hub> slomo: sure. I was willing to offer
<slomo> LaserJock: new as in new on revu? or new upstream?
<LaserJock> slomo: both I think :-)
<slomo> LaserJock: no idea ;) tell siretart about that
<slomo> hub: ok, please run python in a terminal
<slomo> hub: then do import os, sys
<slomo> hub: and then tell me you've done all that ;)
<slomo> hub: (works on my ibook FYI)
<hub> slomo: weird
<hub> let me try
<slomo> hub: when this already breaks your python is broken ;) the interesting stuff comes after that import
<hub> read
<hub> ready
<slomo> ok, now do import avahi
<hub> ready
<slomo> import gtk
<hub> ready
<slomo> import gobject
<siretart> sorry, I'm quite busy speccing here
<hub> ready
<slomo> import dbus
<hub> ready
<slomo> import avahi.ServiceTypeDatabase
<hub> Traceback (most recent call last):
<hub>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
<hub>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/avahi/ServiceTypeDatabase.py", line 22, in ?
<hub>     import gdbm
<hub> ImportError: No module named gdbm
<hub> dependency problem?
<slomo> yes
<slomo> ok, fine
<slomo> that's weird
<slomo> please install python2.4-gdbm
<slomo> and try to run avahi-discover afterwards again
<hub> ajmitch said:
<hub> apt-cache rdepends python-gdbm
<hub> does not show avahi
<hub> I don't have ubuntu-desktop
<hub> that's why
<slomo> yes... i expected that
<slomo> python2.4-avahi is missing the dependency on python-gdbm
<hub> yep
<hub> looks like it
<hub> hey herzi
<slomo> hub: does it work after you installed it? just to be sure ;)
<hub> slomo: installing now
<herzi> hey hub
<mindwarp> can I use the breezy debootstrap script for dapper?
<slomo> hub: and ask ajmitch if we want to fix it or if i should tell ross about it and wait for him as 0.6 should be released soon ;)
<slomo> mindwarp: the dapper debootstrap has a script for dapper ;) maybe get the debootstrap from dapper and install it by hand
<hub> slomo: ajmitch will reply
<ajmitch> slomo: just confirmed with hub, python-=gdbm is a dep of ubuntu-desktop
<ajmitch> so most people haven't seen it
<hub> pbuilder?
<hub> :-)
<slomo> ajmitch: yes
<hub> ah no
<hub> runtime
<LaserJock> mindwarp: or you can probably just dist-upgrade your breezy chroot
<ajmitch> slomo: so we can fix in dapper & tell ross about it
<ajmitch> but that'll introduce a delta from debian
<slomo> ajmitch: shall i fix it or shall we wait for ross to fix it? decreases number of to merge pacakges ;)
<mindwarp> gotcha.  It just seems like pbuilder creates my chroot environment at runtime and I was looking for a static chroot
<ajmitch> slomo: do we have an avahi delta already?
<slomo> nope
<slomo> i would say we wait for ross... isn't that critical right now
<ajmitch> yyep
<slomo> ok *mail sent*
<slomo> btw, i sent him a patch to get a monodoc package earlier today ;)
<ajmitch> great
<LaserJock> siretart: ping?
<slomo> ok, gn8 everybody :)
<mindwarp> night
<tseng> bye slomo
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-30
<crimsun> git-format-patch -o ~/logs master
* imbrandon has never been quite right
<LaserJock> *well
<crimsun> err, oops
<luisbg> the bright side is... all the hype means ubuntu is really getting a huge user base
* LaserJock snatches crimsun's git and runs around the room with it
<luisbg> how many machines running ubuntu do you reckon?
<LaserJock> theCore: http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/all-packages.html has pretty much all the info you need
<crimsun> LaserJock: hey, it's your sound you're playing fast and loose with
<theCore> LaserJock, thanks
<imbrandon> luisbg: last i heard there was 12 million installs last est bt canonical but thats a few months ago
<LaserJock> crimsun: who needs sound anyway?
<crimsun> not me!
<imbrandon> s/bt/by
<imbrandon> i have no idea how they come up with the numbers
<LaserJock> crimsun: I honestly don't use sound very much as I usually work around people who are annoyed by it
<LaserJock> ntp
<crimsun> LaserJock: sound's one of those things people just tend not to notice unless it doesn't work
<imbrandon> i cant live without my amarok, i hope my rommie in mtv likes my music heh
<crimsun> then all hell breaks loose
<LaserJock> yep
<imbrandon> crimsun: kinda like email
<imbrandon> i learned one thing working for an ISP as a sysadmin for 9 years, someones website can be down for 2 days and they whine a little and you might get a phone call , possibly , but if email is down 20 minutes the phone is off the hook and all hell breaks loose
<theCore> hmm... no bug
<luisbg> I want to know how ubuntu works from the inside out in depth... where should I go? (is there a free online version of the ubuntu book? and is it too user oriented?)
<LaserJock> yeah, mine was down for 3 *days*
<imbrandon> wow
<LaserJock> good thing I know the sysadmin
<LaserJock> or he'd be having some hate mail when he got the server up again ;-)
<theCore> I wonder what cause bug 57951
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
<imbrandon> luisbg: alot of things arent 100% transparent but look into the debian way and its very similar
<imbrandon> luisbg: things like soyuz isnt "open" etc to know exactly how it works
<luisbg> imbrandon, why not?
<LaserJock> luisbg: Launchpad is a closed source app
<imbrandon> luisbg: i dont know to be honest
<bhale> even if it was open, it would be less than useful
<LaserJock> very true
<luisbg> lol
<imbrandon> but LP is closed for one and we rely on it
<bhale> its managed by a very large staff of programmers and sysadmins
<bhale> across many servers
<imbrandon> yup
<bhale> if you had the code you couldnt easily use it
<luisbg> my question is where can I get the information of how ubuntu works, a easy to follow documentation
<bhale> can you narrow that down a bit?
<imbrandon> luisbg: there are thousands of ways that can be intrepreted
<imbrandon> how in what way>
<imbrandon> ?
<luisbg> I have a lot of docu about packaging, and have started doing my packaging
<imbrandon> we're happy to help when we can or point you in the right direction but we need a little more focus
<luisbg> but with time would like to help the core-dev
<imbrandon> luisbg: then the best thing in that respect is learn as much about packaing as you can and all the diffrent ways it can be done and such
<imbrandon> to start with
<luisbg> is there a "and then..."?
<imbrandon> like python packaing , ruby packing , mono-cli packing , library packing etc are all slightly diffrent
<imbrandon> the and then is to start working on main bugs as a MOTU with a core-dev sponsor or sponsors, after some time you go infront of the TB
<imbrandon> and they vouch for you and your woprk is reviewed
<luisbg> TB?
<imbrandon> if all go's well you are core-dev with main upload rights ( this is all greately simplified )
<imbrandon> technical board
<luisbg> oh ok
<luisbg> thanks for the info imbrandon =)
<imbrandon> :)
<luisbg> I have started trying to fix unmetdep bugs, have uploaded some debdiffs to launchpad
<bhale> you have to have *significant* experience before going for core-dev
<bhale> not to discourage, but you cant rush it
<luisbg> but I still have a long travel of learning =) which is always good
<luisbg> I have no rush
<imbrandon> luisbg: great , thats some good first steps for MOTU , keep it up, if you stick with it and us in here you'll mpick it up soon enough :)
<luisbg> I want to contribute, not have this or that "label", plus... I want to learn as much as I can, in its rythm
<luisbg> imbrandon, will do ;)
<luisbg> the only thing I want to rush is having at least one point of karma in the launchpad LOL
<luisbg> that "0" looks so sad
<imbrandon> luisbg: i can tell you one thing, i lurked in here for 3 months without saying much of anything before i started asking questions etc , that is when you learn the basics ( every one is diffrent but i learn by watching )
<azeem> bddebian: do you still have your bkchem package around?
<bhale> imbrandon: hah it sucked being first
<bhale> imbrandon: i felt like an idiot talking to mdz
<imbrandon> luisbg: thats not to say dont ask , i was just giving what __I__ did
<luisbg> imbrandon, are you asking me to "shut up and listen"? (not in a degrading way of course)
<imbrandon> no no not at all
<luisbg> imbrandon, LOL
<imbrandon> i'm saying you can learn alot though by watching
<imbrandon> bhale: hehe
<imbrandon> bhale: my core-dev interview was 1+ hour long just on __me__ , i thought for sure i wouldent get it after that long, but i did :)
<bhale> heh
<imbrandon> like an hour and 15 minutes or something close to that
<bhale> its getting harder
<bhale> because the TB doesnt know everyone personally
<bddebian> azeem: Yeah, I think so, why?
<imbrandon> yea and working mostly only on KDE packages myself they knew me very little
<imbrandon> they == TB
<azeem> bddebian: did you use python-support or python-central or something?
<crimsun> imbrandon: to be fair, only about half that amount of time was TB actually "grilling" you.
<imbrandon> crimsun: true
<imbrandon> alot was lag time waiting
<imbrandon> but it seemed like forever
<imbrandon> hehe
<crimsun> yes, it always seems like an eternity when you're in the hot seat
<crimsun> once hobbsee is core-dev, you guys will be on a roll
<imbrandon> heh yea
<imbrandon> definatly
<imbrandon> +e in there somewherre
<bddebian> azeem: pycentral
<imbrandon> i hate this notebok keyboard
<bddebian> Gotta eat dinner, bbiab
<imbrandon> trying to use it more though so i can make sure all my "essentials" are on it and ready for MTV
<azeem> bddebian: cool, can you put it up somewhere?  We need to migrate the unofficial bkchem package to new python policy, that would help a lot
<imbrandon> as before i just used it as a "backup" when i wasent at my desktop
<imbrandon> luisbg: there is a transition most of the time going on that new packagers can "get their feet wet" with too
<imbrandon> like unmetdeps etc
<luisbg> etc?
* LaserJock is feeling another C/C++ transition coming on ;-)
<luisbg> unmetdeps are great for me right now =)
<imbrandon> etc means , ummm ectectra ( sp? )
<luisbg> too bad this days most unmetdeps are bigger bugs camouflaged, you guys did a hell of a job making all good for edgy
<luisbg> ironic I want feisty to come and things to get wild, to have more stuff to play with :P
<LaserJock> luisbg: me too, I'd like to go for core-dev sometime during Feisty
<luisbg> imbrandon, I meant... can you make that etc broader?
<LaserJock> but I need some practice with some sponsored uploads
<luisbg> LaserJock, good luck
<imbrandon> oh like a while back the libgamin transition ( rebuilds to make packages not use it anymore ) and ummm dh_iconcache from packages where it was missing
* luisbg shakes his eightball
<luisbg> I see a bright future for you :P
<imbrandon> but those are both done, new ones will come along
<LaserJock> luisbg: well, I'm not nearly as good as imbrandon or ajmitch or crimsun or bhale :/
<luisbg> imbrandon, will be looking forward to give a hand in future transitions
<imbrandon> LaserJock: blasphmey
<imbrandon> :)
<luisbg> LaserJock, practice makes perfection (insert karate kid quote here)
<crimsun> s/crimsun/bddebian/
<imbrandon> s/imbrandon/crimsun/
<imbrandon> :)
<crimsun> I don't think I'm going to win this battle.
* LaserJock showers the channel with ponies
<luisbg> LaserJock, damn you and your ponies
<LaserJock> don't blame me, I didn't start it
* imbrandon is working twords a golden pony for Feisty
<joejaxx> LaserJock: guess what?
<imbrandon> instead of champaigne i'll spray mt dew everywhere :)
<joejaxx> at does not work! :D
<joejaxx> imbrandon: Lol
<joejaxx> LaserJock: also i did pbuilder debuild *.dsc but it did not build any packages
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, you could sell your golden pony for a truck load of Mt. Dew
<imbrandon> pbuilder build file.dsc
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i know i did that
<imbrandon> not debuild
<luisbg> bbl
<joejaxx> i do not get debian files from that though
* luisbg goes to have dinner
<LaserJock> joejaxx: where did you look for the .deb ?
<imbrandon> joejaxx: look in /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> LaserJock: imbrandon i have a question about the at package
<joejaxx> well it is my question before but
<joejaxx> when you install at in debstrap it does not configure right
<joejaxx> someone told me to look at strace
<joejaxx> and that it was not outputting to syslog
<jdong> would a MOTU be willing to consider looking at an azureus edgy-updates candidate for me?
<joejaxx> he package configuration fails on starting the at daemon
<jdong> full sources at http://buntudot.org/people/~jdong/azureus-edgy/, closes bug 42269
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42269 in azureus "Does not create a tray icon" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42269
<imbrandon> debootstap starts a daemon >?
<crimsun> jdong: matthias's will probably supercede that.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: no
<jdong> crimsun: matthias's what?
<joejaxx> chroot'd inside the debstrap environment
<jdong> did he have a fix ready to upload already?
<joejaxx> as in
<crimsun> jdong: azureus package
<jdong> crimsun: his is broken, or is there one that I don't know about?
<joejaxx> chroot dbstrap-test
<joejaxx> apt-get install at
<crimsun> jdong: the latter, he was supposed to email mdz
<jdong> ah, ok
<jdong> I didn't know
<crimsun> that's ok, you have a life.
<jdong> crimsun: sadly, I don't think I do :D
<bddebian> azeem: I'll stick it on bddebian.com, give me a sec
<jdong> I've just been too absorbed in other nerdy stuff :)
* jdong notices that Launchpad has sent him 500 new messages
<jdong> 300 of which are duplicates of the flashplayer bug :D
<crimsun> what flashplayer?
<jdong> crimsun: from when I broke it a while back :D
<imbrandon> time for some food, bbiab
<crimsun> oh, flashplugin-nonfree?
<jdong> yeah
<jdong> still haunts my inbox
<jdong> :)
<jdong> mostly from people with too much time marking duplicates
<crimsun> oh don't worry, it just gets worse.
<jdong> (and then rejecting duplicates) ?!
<jdong> so I got 30 dups, 10 of which got marked rejected.... which gives me 300 messages in my inbox :)
<imbrandon> jdong: just think thats only one package, wait till your MOTU
<jdong> imbrandon: I suppose by then I'll start filtering LP out of my inbox :)
<crimsun> LP sends me about a thousand e-mails daily
<imbrandon> yea i get aobut 400 or 500 a day from LP
<imbrandon> i only get to read about 100 of them
<imbrandon> if that some days
<jdong> wow
<jdong> I guess I have no right to complain then :D
<crimsun> complaining doesn't resolve anything; fixing bugs does :)
<jdong> grr, azureus is doing a suckier job than ktorrent on this particular baddie :)
<jdong> crimsun: the problem is the bug is already fixed :D
<bddebian> azeem: http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/bkchem/
<LaserJock> bddebian: thanks dude
<imbrandon> whoa , i dident know you had bddebian.com /me go's to fanboi
<joejaxx> bddebian: hurd?
<joejaxx> bddebian: is that the next debian release?
<imbrandon> no heh
<jdong> :)
<jdong> joejaxx: no, it'll take longer :D
<imbrandon> hurd is an alternative to the linnux kernel from GNU
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> why whould someone want to do that?
<jdong> joejaxx: ask wikipedia
<joejaxx> ie why was the project started :)
<jdong> joejaxx: GNU thinks linux is a hackjob, and a good OS should be engineered as one from ground up?
<imbrandon> it was started about the same time as linux just dident catch on as well
<jdong> besides, linux is getting boring :)
<imbrandon> microkernel vs monolithic kernel too :)
<ivoks> hurd? :)
<joejaxx> are they trying to do this because everyone calls it linux and not gnu/kinux?
<joejaxx> gnu/linux*
<jdong> joejaxx: it still has to be called gnu/hurd
<jdong> so it doesn't fix that "problem"
<imbrandon> joejaxx: hurd was the first kernel for gnu systems, then linux cam and was less buggy and worked
<LaserJock> that's a "feature" not a "problem" ;-p
<imbrandon> thus was use
<imbrandon> d
<imbrandon> and i cant say /worked/ enough heh
<joejaxx> oh ok
<ivoks> does hurd work today?
<imbrandon> also like i said you have the micro-kernel ( hurd ) vs monolithic kernel ( linux ) too , kinda like kde vs gnome
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> ivoks: for some value of "work"
<imbrandon> and then you have darwin , micro-kernel + bsd(ish) kernel strapped togather :)
<imbrandon> and ofcourse the bsd kernel
<pcniatic> but there is a working version of hurd??
<imbrandon> and dos kernels ( command.com ? ) and windows kernels ( ntldr.sys ? )
<joejaxx> imbrandon: whould you like to help me solve the at dilemma?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah windows kernels
<imbrandon> joejaxx: i know nothing about it
<imbrandon> pcniatic: http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/
<imbrandon> and http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/
<joejaxx> imbrandon: well if you debstrap a test environment and try and install at it does not work
<imbrandon> joejaxx: yea it works here, i have a etch , sid , dapper, edgy, and feisty chroots all setup using debootstrap
<joejaxx> imbrandon: well when you chroot in what are the first things you do before you do anything major ie apt-get install
<joejaxx> imbrandon: with me export LC_ALL & HOME and mout /sys and /proc
<imbrandon> nothing
<joejaxx> nothig?
<joejaxx> nothing?
<joejaxx> mount*
<imbrandon> thats all done via dchroot and my .bashrc
<joejaxx> dchroot?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: bah, I'm not any better than you
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i have never used that
<LaserJock> ajmitch: sure you are
<imbrandon> dchroot -c <chrootname> -d
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> hmm
* joejaxx goes to try
* jdong just uses his pbuilders as chroots :D
<imbrandon> also you might want to setup the bind mounts in your fstab
<jdong> they clean up after my messes :)
<LaserJock> jdong: yeah, I just wish they were faster to unpack on my machines :(
<joejaxx> jdong: Lol
<jdong> LaserJock: yeah, there's a good 10 second delay to accessing a chroot, but it's worth it
<joejaxx> i hate when this happens
<joejaxx> root@equinox:/# umount /proc
<joejaxx> umount: /proc: device is busy
<joejaxx> :(
<LaserJock> jdong: mine's a little longer then 10 s I think
<jdong> LaserJock: loopbacking a reiserfs will give you quite a boost
<jdong> but that takes setting aside a dedicated area of space
<imbrandon> takes about 8s here to pbuilder-<dist> login
<jdong> actually, jfs with nointegrity is a hair faster
<joejaxx> so you all use pbuilder for chroot also?
<jdong> I don't think everyone's as crazy as me, no
* joejaxx is confused
<jdong> joejaxx: pbuilder takes extra time to unpack and clean every usage cycle....
<imbrandon> joejaxx: i use both, depends on my need at the time
<joejaxx> cleaning is nice
<jdong> joejaxx: typically I use my chroots  to test backports and other experimental-nature packaging work
<joejaxx> oh ok
<jdong> joejaxx: so I'd rather do it in a self-cleaning environment
<LaserJock> imbrandon: takes exactly 1 min 3 sec to do a pbuilder login on my fast machine
<joejaxx> i am trying to use my chroots to build the fluxbuntu livecds
<jdong> LaserJock: holy crap
<imbrandon> LaserJock: wow
<jdong> LaserJock: what is your setup?!?
<jdong> I think my junk router/server unpacks faster than that
<joejaxx> once i get past this at package error and can start
<LaserJock> 2.8 GHz Celeron with 512 MB Ram
<LaserJock> that's my laptop
<imbrandon> ahh slow hdd
<imbrandon> thats the holdup
<jdong> yeah, your hd is likely to blame
<imbrandon> 5400 rpm probably
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how big is your base tarball & apt cache?
<jdong> and 512MB of RAM is probably not helping you out
<LaserJock> I also have a 1.3 GHz P4 with 256MB of Ram
<jdong> imbrandon: my 5400rpm is MUCH faster than that!
<ajmitch> heh, pbuilder login is somewhat broken on my box, due to the hook script used
<LaserJock> the base tarball is 91 MB and the apt cache is 464 MB
<joejaxx> how do i force a umount?
<joejaxx> umount -f does not work
<LaserJock> ok, on my intel imac at work it takes 20 s :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ok, that's pretty small
* ajmitch has a 97MB base tarball & a 4.3GB apt cache that needs cleaned
<LaserJock> well, I reinstall so often there usually isn't even a chance for it to get that big
* ajmitch never reinstalls
<LaserJock> hmm, takes 38 s on my P4 1.3GHz
<Jozo-> Hjum... sid-base.tgz 64MiB, edgy-base.tgz 59MiB, breezy-base.tgz 38MiB ....
<LaserJock> this laptop sucks
<joejaxx> bah/win 16
* joejaxx very much dislikes when /proc does not want to umount
<jdong> joejaxx: -l
<jdong> joejaxx: WARNING: may send undesired SIGKILLs to random processes :D
<joejaxx> that is not a app flag for umount is it?
<jdong> yes
<jdong> your results may vary, not responsible for damaged belongings, not a low calorie product
<bhale> LaserJock: bah, bhale doesnt know anything
<joejaxx> jdong: thanks
<LaserJock> bhale: of course you do silly
<joejaxx> jdong: that flag is not under --help lol
<jdong> joejaxx: it's lazy unmount
<LaserJock> bhale: you wouldn't be a core-dev and do the cool things you do if you didn't
<joejaxx> jdong: normall i just restart my computer that works
<joejaxx> normally
<jdong> joejaxx: it is in the manpage
<jdong>        -l     Lazy unmount. Detach the filesystem from the filesystem  hierar
<jdong>               chy now, and cleanup all references to the filesystem as soon as
<jdong>               it is not busy anymore.  (Requires kernel 2.4.11 or later.)
<jdong> joejaxx: force unmount really doesn't do anything... unless you're using like NFS
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> hmm, now I'm just confused as to why my laptop takes so long to unpack the base tarball
<jdong> LaserJock: sane filesystem?
<LaserJock> maybe that's also the reason why when I install stuff in synaptic it freezes so bad
<jdong> not an XFS user, are you? :D
<LaserJock> just default ext3
<jdong> ok
<LaserJock> I've never used anything but ext and reiser
<jdong> btw, anyone know if I can get pbuilder to use a different form of compression for the tarball?
<jdong> don't see anything enlightening in the manpage
<LaserJock> jdong: you could probably patch it to
<jdong> LaserJock: that's what I was thinking....
* jdong expects that LZO would speed up his pbuilder work
<bhale> or you could just patch it to use straight tar
<bhale> if you actually wanted to speed things up
<LaserJock> yeah
<jdong> bhale: I care slightly about disk space though :D
<bhale> i have 3 chroots or so on my other laptop
<joejaxx> chroots are fun
<bhale> an empty debootstrap isnt that big
<jdong> around 1GB for all my pbuilders added together
<joejaxx> especially when you have dapper, dapper-dev dapper-test dapper-exp edgy edgy-dev edgy-test edgy-exp
<jdong> enough for me to start caring on my space-limited machines
<LaserJock> what are the -dev and -test for?
<LaserJock> I just have dapper and edgy :/
<LaserJock> well and sid
<joejaxx> so how do i use pbuilder for chroot?
<joejaxx> pbuilder login?
<bhale> yes.
<joejaxx> 15 seconds on mine
<joejaxx> and when i exit it will clean itself up?
<bhale> yes.
<bhale> unless --save-after-login
<joejaxx> should i still export home & LC_ALL and mount sys and proc?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> but I don't do that in a chroot either
<bhale> you need /proc in chroot often
<bhale> but pbuilder handles it
<LaserJock> right but I have bindmounts for that
<LaserJock> I don't do it inside the chroot
<bddebian> BTW LaserJock and azeem, there were still some issues with what I did :)
<bhale> mount -t proc /proc /chroot/proc
<joejaxx> oh also i was wondering why apt-get does this
<bhale> works for me
<joejaxx> Ign http://archive.fluxbuntu.net dapper Release.gpg
<joejaxx> Ign http://archive.fluxbuntu.net dapper Release
<bhale> same as bind mount effectively
<LaserJock> bhale: sure
<bhale> but seems more correct somehow
<LaserJock> bddebian: better then nothing
<bhale> shrug
* imbrandon returns
<joejaxx> anyone know how i can correct that?
<joejaxx> is that because my pgp key is not in the keyring ?
<bhale> it doesnt need Release, anyway
<bhale> most likely you didnt make one?
<joejaxx> i did make one
<bhale> shrug
<joejaxx> and gpg signed it
<bhale> you really need Packages/Sources .gz
<joejaxx> they are there
<LaserJock> joejaxx: btw, have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot ?
<bhale> ignoring releases is no big deal
<imbrandon> joejaxx: how did you make the repo ? i recomend something like falcon, it automates most of that for no more packages than what you are working with
<joejaxx> imbrandon: created the directory
<imbrandon> ( i use it for my repos with less than 30 packages )
<joejaxx> scanned them
<joejaxx> created the *.gz and *.bz2
<imbrandon> and Seveas obviously uses it for all his as he wrote it :)
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> well i cannot actually install falcon on this machine
<joejaxx> which is why i did it manually
<imbrandon> joejaxx: yea try falcon, it takes about ~10 minutes to setup and will save you lots of mundane work when dealing with repos
<joejaxx> and it still works
<Jozo-> I use reprepro.
<LaserJock> well you could use reprepro or mini-dinstall
<joejaxx> are those default on debian?
<imbrandon> you dont have to have falcon running on the machine where the repo is
<joejaxx> if they are not i cannot use it
<joejaxx> imbrandon: oh
<imbrandon> it will mirror ( i host at dreamhost and run falcon localy )
<joejaxx> imbrandon: ah
<joejaxx> imbrandon: my predicament
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> for some reason i like manually doing it
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> imbrandon.com and buntudot.org are both on dreamhost :)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: yes, reprepro and mini-dinstall are standard Debian tools
<joejaxx> i will try falcon anyway though
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ah ok good
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :)
<imbrandon> joejaxx: yea dh has reprepro installed ( not sure about mini-di )
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> Setting up fluxbuntu-standard (0.1) ...
<joejaxx> root@equinox:/#
<imbrandon> dh it debian 3.1 based ( i assume you host fluxbuntu.net there from the IP )
<joejaxx> do you knwo what that means? :D
<joejaxx> know*
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yes
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah
<joejaxx> i loved when i found out dpkg-scanpackages worked
<joejaxx> before that i did it on my computer
<joejaxx> and uploaded the directories
<imbrandon> if you do it by hand check the script Riddell uses on kubuntu.org
<imbrandon> it will help somewhat, its what i used before falcon
<joejaxx> Riddell?
<imbrandon> head kubuntu honcho
<joejaxx> who is riddell?
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> :)
<imbrandon> here is an example he uses for the koffice repo on kubuntu.org that he does by hand, obviously you'll need to edit the paths but it works on DH as i used to use a modified one on DH before i got falcon
<imbrandon> http://www.kubuntu.org/packages/koffice-16/ARCHIVE
<joejaxx> right now all i do is two commandlines
<joejaxx> and the repo is updated
<joejaxx> yeah the other thing is i do not use a pool
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> wow, that will be hard to maintain later
<joejaxx> imbrandon: well
<joejaxx> wait how so?
<joejaxx> if everything is automated?
<imbrandon> well moreso i dunno how a repo would work without a pool and putting the old packages in thre morgue
<imbrandon> never tried making a repo without a pool
<joejaxx> imbrandon: oh ok
<joejaxx> well everything goes in binary-arch and source
<imbrandon> just seems like it would be harder
<joejaxx> oh ok
<imbrandon> but hey if it works for you , more power :)
<imbrandon> linux is about choices and thats your show, just adding my 0.2c
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> well atleast i just have the fluxbuntu metapackages in there until feisty
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: !!
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon!!!
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<TheMuso> So are we still waiting for feisty?
<Hobbsee> yes
<imbrandon> mostly :)
<imbrandon> mom is running ( but will likely have to be re-testbuilt again after the new toolchain hits )
<imbrandon> before any are uploaded
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<imbrandon> omg kmail has crashed on me the last time /me sudo apt-get install mozilla-thunderbird
* ajmitch used to use kmail
<imbrandon> i have tried to for a long time, but every since 3.5.3 its segfaulted and i've submited bug report after report upstream ans it keeps getting marked "fixed" but it never is
<joejaxx> is there a way to find out the maintainer of a pakcage through apt?
<imbrandon> it runs long enough for me to read about 3 ro 4 emails then boom
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: heh.  yes, it's crap
<joejaxx> i need to email the pbuilder maintainer and personally thank her/him
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> joejaxx: in ubuntu it would be all of core-dev ( as its in main ) we dont really have maintainers "per se"
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> well i thank all of you core-dev for this package
<imbrandon> and universe is the MOTU's :)
<joejaxx> and the MOTU's
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> apparently ubuntu does not build the ubuntu-boot packages?
<imbrandon> but it originates in from debian and if you wanna find the debian maintainer iirc you can apt-cache show <package> for some info
<joejaxx> so now i am going to have to make a fluxbuntu-boot package
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :D
* joejaxx tries that
<imbrandon> looks like a team,
<imbrandon> Maintainer: Debian pbuilder maintenance team <pbuilder-maint@lists.alioth.debian.org>
<LaserJock> why do you need a fluxbuntu-boot package?
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i am building livecds
<LaserJock> still
<imbrandon> joejaxx: just depend on ubuntu-live(fs?) i woudl think
<LaserJock> I think you'll need your own ubuntu-live
<joejaxx> The default kernels and bootloaders are not to be installed by debootstrap,
<joejaxx> and *-minimal metapackages should not depend on them; however, they do need
<joejaxx> to end up on CD images and in live filesystems. We therefore put them in a
<joejaxx> separate seed.
<LaserJock> but you should only need -desktop -live -artwork (or -default-settings)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i have a live
<joejaxx> live: minimal standard desktop
<joejaxx> live does not include boot :\
<LaserJock> fine
<LaserJock> but there is no ubuntu-boot that I know of
<joejaxx> LaserJock: btw that was a quote fom the seeds
<TheMuso> Searching the apt databases shows none here.
<joejaxx> not my own wording
<joejaxx> it must include them at livecd build time
<joejaxx> ship-live: boot minimal standard desktop live
<LaserJock> ah, so there is a boot seed, that makes sense
<LaserJock> there isn't an ubuntu-boot package though
<LaserJock> joejaxx: how are you planning on making the .iso?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: from scratch
<LaserJock> ah
<joejaxx> i am doing manually now
<LaserJock> that's going to be tough
<joejaxx> but i am going to make a script for it
<ajmitch> that's mildly insane
<imbrandon> rock on joejaxx , i've been waiting for someone to take that task on
<LaserJock> I would think it would be much easier to use and existing .iso
<imbrandon> good luck
<ajmitch> imbrandon: why?
<ajmitch> what's so wrong with debian-cd ?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: you are right about that
<imbrandon> ajmitch: just to see if it could be done from the "outside"
<ajmitch> well, apart from it not being for live cds
<joejaxx> LaserJock: that is what i have been doing but customized livecds are not clean
<LaserJock> joejaxx: have you talked to Kamion or one of the other release people?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: debian-cd ? is that to make d-i cd's ?
<LaserJock> not clean?
<joejaxx> which is why i decided to build them from scratch
<joejaxx> LaserJock: leftovers
<joejaxx> LaserJock: when you customize a livecd there are alot of leftovers
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, sorry, I thought joejaxx was making one
<TheMuso> And I believe they also use mksquashfs flags to better optimize the livefs.
<LaserJock> joejaxx: like what?
<LaserJock> I'm just curious
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yea he is doing a live cd, but i wouldent mind looking at making a d-i cd, that seems cool too
<LaserJock> as Ichthux uses a kubuntu .iso to start with
* TheMuso wishes there was something to build live CDs like jigdo for alternate CDs.
<joejaxx> empty directories, random packages, configs, stuff i should not be on there
<joejaxx> i know*
<imbrandon> LaserJock: but ich is based on kde, imagine removing kubuntu-desktop and everything associated
<joejaxx> especially trying to take a ubuntu(gnome) live cd
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't think I've seen any of those
<LaserJock> imbrandon: true
<joejaxx> and trying to get rid of gnome everything and putting on fluxbox
<LaserJock> Ichthux builds on top of
<LaserJock> Kubuntu
<LaserJock> not replacing it
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> ok, but have you talked with Kamion?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes
<imbrandon> yea he is replacing it with fluxbox and lightweight apps so in both cases it seems like the right choice, ich with custom kubuntu and flux form scratch imho
<LaserJock> did you get scripts from him?
<joejaxx> no
<joejaxx> i do not think i am allowed to anyway
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> not allowed? if he gives them to you then it's allowed ;-)
<imbrandon> joejaxx: he would probably give you the scripts that make the cd's from the seeds
<imbrandon> if you asked right/nice
<joejaxx> imbrandon: seeds.fluxbuntu.net
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> seeds are pulled from there
<LaserJock> from what I understand it's still a lot of work as Ubuntu uses LP so much
<joejaxx> meta packages built
<LaserJock> joejaxx: no, but the scripts that they use to build the .isos
<joejaxx> livecds created
<joejaxx> 1,2,3
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah i do not have neither
<joejaxx> i have to do it from scratch lol
<joejaxx> plus
<joejaxx> those scripts are probably done local
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure how much use they would be to you but it would probably be better then from scratch
<joejaxx> as i am doing them remote
<LaserJock> I have no idea about that
<ajmitch> joejaxx: it's easier just to ask & find out
<joejaxx> i have already
<joejaxx> ship-live: boot minimal standard desktop live
<joejaxx> i mean
<joejaxx> Setting up fluxbuntu-live (0.1) ...
<_MMA_> Laserjock: With Ichthux do you guys only do a Desktop-Live cd?
<LaserJock> _MMA_: yep
<LaserJock> that's what a Desktop cd is
<LaserJock> I'll be looking into also creating an Alternate CD too at some point
<joejaxx> alternate cds are going to be fun to build
<joejaxx> lol
<_MMA_> Thats one of the things we have been discussing with Ubuntu Studio. I dont know which way we should go.
<joejaxx> <sarcasm>
<joejaxx> </sarcasm>
<joejaxx> i have to include the pool of debian packages that are going to be installed
<joejaxx> :\ lol
<imbrandon> _MMA_: if its based on gnome/kde i would go the editing livecd way
<TheMuso> Alternate CDs will actually be easier to build, as just about everything you need is in the archive, or in bzr repositories.
<joejaxx> TheMuso: yeah
<TheMuso> afaik anyway
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso , later TheMuso
<joejaxx> TheMuso: put for me the pools are different
<_MMA_> TheMuso: We just need to figure out the process. UDS/MV will be a good place for info.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: hehe
<TheMuso> Right.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: yeah, I think probably doing a Desktop .iso starting from Ubuntu would be the best to start with
<_MMA_> imbrandon:Thing is, we arent sure how we are going to present the users with a choice of packages.
<LaserJock> it you don't care about things like boot artwork
<LaserJock> it's pretty trivial actually
<imbrandon> _MMA_: yea if there is time, MV is pretty jam packed :) ( but you might coax kamoin afterhours heheh )
<_MMA_> I can edit the boot art.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: time to try and build the iso
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> well, getting the boot artwork ot actually work ;-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :P
<_MMA_> imbrandon: I really cant wait for it. :)
<_MMA_> I hope to learn alot.
<ajmitch> it'll be interesting, sure
<LaserJock> well, I don't know if it would help, but the Ichthux Desktop .iso creation notes are at http://wiki.ichthux.com/Development/CD
<_MMA_> LaserJock: You've tried Reconstructor right?
<LaserJock> nope
<_MMA_> It creates edits Desktop CDs.
<imbrandon> _MMA_: i have, its mostly geared to lang pack installs
<LaserJock> _MMA_: I know what it is
<imbrandon> not the other stuff
<LaserJock> but I don't use a gui for it and we change other things
<_MMA_> imbrandon are you sure? :) http://reconstructor.aperantis.com/
<_MMA_> I used it to create test Ubuntu Studio disks. But only for out audio apps.
<_MMA_> We need to find a way to give users a coice of what to install. Audio/Video/Graphic apps.
<_MMA_> At some point in the process.
<_MMA_> *But only for our audio apps.
<joejaxx> what is that grub update command once again?
<LaserJock> well, tasksel would probably help in the future
<imbrandon> sudo update-grub
<LaserJock> _MMA_: you could include a little app that asks the user on after install perhaps
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Yea. I still have to read up more on it.
<imbrandon> _MMA_: looks like its come a ways since i last looked
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> how can i find out the current pbuilder session?
<_MMA_> We thought about that. C.Berg poo-pooed all over that idea. :)
<imbrandon> still dosent look like you can update things like the kernel and such
<LaserJock> _MMA_: well, it depends on how you do it
<imbrandon> _MMA_: does it work with the edgy livecd's ?
<_MMA_> imbrandon: Id play with it a bit. Its dev is a REALLY nice guy also. :)
<_MMA_> Yes. It works with Edgy.
<_MMA_> I used the Beta for our tests.
<imbrandon> ahh but no KDE
<imbrandon> only gnome :(
<_MMA_> No. :)
<imbrandon> http://reconstructor.aperantis.com/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=44&func=view&id=1&catid=2
<imbrandon> yes ^^
<_MMA_> Thats why he has this Moduals" thing. :)
<joejaxx> yippeee fun
<joejaxx> time to build the cds
<_MMA_> "Modules"
<_MMA_> Ive been talkin to him about it. Well, yes. Officially now thats what it says.
<_MMA_> Ive used it on Xubuntu disks also.
<_MMA_> He pland to make it U/K/X independant through the use of "modules". Just little scripts.
<_MMA_> *plans
<LaserJock> I might try it out for a custom Desktop CD I want to make for my department
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea i was thinking the same thing, for inhouse here
<imbrandon> if i can work with KDE
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Its what I use. I have 5 desktops. All with custom cds.
<LaserJock> I think it might convince my Department Chair might be convinced to use Ubuntu in the computer lab if it has the school artwork and chemistry packages by default ;-)
<LaserJock> bah, I need to proofread my sentences
<_MMA_> Codecs, samba, art, whatever.
<_MMA_> You can switch kernels also through chroot with it.
* imbrandon downloads to give it a shot, is there an irc chan?
<imbrandon> ah cool
<imbrandon> might be ok then
<imbrandon> :)
<_MMA_> I dont think so. I told him to lurk in here. He has.
<imbrandon> who is "he" heh
<_MMA_> Hell. I could call him now.
<_MMA_> ehazlet is his nic
<imbrandon> i got no questions for him atm, just curious
<_MMA_> Yea, sure. :)
<imbrandon> i'm gonna gice it a spin tonight/tomarrow
<imbrandon> give*
<imbrandon> damn keyboard
<LaserJock> sure, blame the keyboard ;-)
<_MMA_> I was really supprised. It kinda helped me learn how disks work. Even though its not the "proper" way I guess.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i really hate the lappy keyboards
<imbrandon> but trying to make myself use it
<imbrandon> so i can be productive next week with it
<LaserJock> _MMA_: well, since the "proper" way involved closed source LP software, I suppose we just do what we can
<_MMA_> LaserJock: I know. I just worry about it. I want to do things as I should and not get bitched at for hacking things together.
<LaserJock> well, I think people mostly have issues with hacked together 3rd party software
<LaserJock> i.e. we would complain more if you were using checkinstall to build your .debs
<_MMA_> 3rd party?
<LaserJock> how you put your packages together into an .iso is a bit less of a concern, IMO
<joejaxx> is there a ubuntu man pages anywhere?
<_MMA_> By using reconstructor?
<joejaxx> ma pages site*
<joejaxx> man*
<LaserJock> _MMA_: I mean, putting in 3rd party software (maybe even not .debs) in your .iso
<LaserJock> that would be a much bigger concern then how exactly you build the .iso
<_MMA_> Ah.. Even for myself. I stuck to the repos. :)
<imbrandon> there is only two things in this world i dont stick to the repos on and those i install from source
<_MMA_> Whats that sir?
<imbrandon> libdvdcss2 and w32codecs ( from mplayerhq )
<_MMA_> Ahh..
<_MMA_> I just use your packages now. :)
<imbrandon> heh those are actualy Seveas's packages i just host them for him ( http://seveas.imbrandon.com is Seveas's and http://www.imbrandon.com/packages is mine )
<_MMA_> Ok. I got it.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: guess what?
<joejaxx> i am up to the livecd part
<joejaxx> i need to use casper now
<joejaxx> :)
<_MMA_> Good news joe?
<joejaxx> well i am trying to build the livecd part of the iso
<joejaxx> if i cannot understand casper i might have to find another way lol
* imbrandon fires up reconstructor for a look arround
<_MMA_> imbrandon: When I messed with Xubuntu and Reconstructor I used the chroot to change things that were Xubuntu specific.
<LaserJock> Kubuntu might be a bit tricky too
<imbrandon> _MMA_: yea i'll get more indepth with it later , just poking at it for now as i'm headed to sleep soonish
<LaserJock> as some stuff is a bit more hardcoded
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> lots
<imbrandon> but i'm not afraid of makin some replacement packages for things i need :)
<imbrandon> specialy if its for in-house
<_MMA_> If any of you guys like the app and want to suggest things its dev is really open and easy to talk to.
<imbrandon> make a easy to use kubuntu version that uses pyqt so i dont have to load gtk :(
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> gtk+glade actualy
<imbrandon> i can give him *.ui files and there are *.glade to *.ui files out there :)
<joejaxx> everyone having fun?
<ajmitch> no
<joejaxx> i am
<LaserJock> ajmitch: no fun?
<joejaxx> </joke>
<joejaxx> *
<joejaxx> ajmitch: do you know anything about debian livecds?
<imbrandon> ahh it dont work with the edgy usplash yet ?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i know i can ust bootcd
<_MMA_> imbrandon: Crap. Yea. I forgot to mention that.
<_MMA_> I think thats one of the things he plans to make a module out of.
* luisbg goes to sleep, goodnight all
<imbrandon> how does it handle making iso's larger than 700mb , it dont complain hopefully ( i like to make 800mb iso's and dvd iso's )
<Laser_away> my inlaws are taking us out to dinner
<Laser_away> I'll bbl
<joejaxx> fun
<imbrandon> l8tr Laser_away
<joejaxx> building the livecd
<joejaxx> but just for kicks and soccerballs i am not using casper
<_MMA_> imbrandon: It works fine with big isos.
<_MMA_> I use DVDs also.
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> joejaxx: I'm working, I'm not having fun
<_MMA_> Though, if you dont need OO.o you can save alot of space. :)
<imbrandon> just makin sure , ok, i'm headed to sleep for a few hours hopefully , bbiab
<_MMA_> night sir.
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :\
<imbrandon> _MMA_: yea i replace OO.o with koffice
<_MMA_> Ahh...
<imbrandon> and remove the winfoss
<imbrandon> etc, i ahve done all this before by hand, just looking at the "pretty way"
<imbrandon> :)
<_MMA_> Yea. Its just a frontend for: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization/6.06
<_MMA_> Well, started out that way.
<imbrandon> yup yup, i have refrenced that wiki many times :)
<imbrandon> ( and a few others )
<joejaxx> hmm its
<imbrandon> okies my eyes are closing, see yall in a few hours
* joejaxx is stuck time once again hahaha
<joejaxx> imbrandon: Goodnight
* joejaxx starts the Joejaxx is Stuck game Show
<joejaxx> haha
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: hello welcome back
<Fujitsu> Hi joejaxx.
<joejaxx> i just tried building a debian livecd
<joejaxx>  lol
<joejaxx> that was fun
<joejaxx> :( it is dead in here
<joejaxx> either that or my client is lagging
<ajmitch> no, it's quite dead
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> well atleast you are here lol
* ajmitch isn't
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :\
<zul> its dont dead its resting
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> i need to find a motu insomniac
<joejaxx> lol
<_MMA_> Man, I swear at UDS im gonna drug you every night. ;) You better not keep me up all night.
<joejaxx> LOL
<joejaxx> haha
<zul> heh its not like your are going to get any sleep anyways
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> lol
<_MMA_> Im so gonna take you to a stripclub. ;)
<joejaxx> lol
<zul> you are going to be so tired you will not want to go to a stripclub
<joejaxx> uds' are tiring?
<zul> they are going to work you into the ground :)
<joejaxx> nice lol
<joejaxx> that should be an interesting event
<imbrandon> yes that is the point of UDS , its a hands on for the next release, not a party :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i know ;)
<joejaxx> hey
<zul> imbrandon: of course after the day is finished
<joejaxx> why are openoffice-packages being installed >:(
<ajmitch> at UDU, it was ~12 hours a day, from 9AM till 9PM
<joejaxx> udu?
<ajmitch> ubuntu down under
<imbrandon> zul: shhhhhh keep em scared
<zul> doh..
* joejaxx forgets what zul said
<zul> ajmitch: less people were at UDS wasnt there?
<ajmitch> I remember seeing people sleeping on the floor during breaks at UBZ
<imbrandon> yea long tecnical days with lots of hands on though
<joejaxx> so wait
<ajmitch> there were quite a few people
<joejaxx> every summit has a different name?
<_MMA_> Thats cool ajmitch. The clubs will still be open.
<joejaxx> _MMA_: lol
<zul> heh there isnt alot of clubs in sj
<_MMA_> There are 3 that look goot. I did research. :)
<_MMA_> *good
<zul> no you want to go to sf
<zul> anyways..
<imbrandon> oh lord, i can see it now, this is a work trip , people hung over the next days
* imbrandon go's back to bed
<_MMA_> Yea. But there we gotta be carful we dont wind up in the wrong one. :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: lol
<_MMA_> imbrandon: I dont drink but I have a good time. Will be my 1st time out west.
<joejaxx> _MMA_: SHHHH
<joejaxx> the livecd is building
<joejaxx> gah
<_MMA_> nice.
<joejaxx> nevermind it stopped
<_MMA_> Ha!
<joejaxx> oh nevermind itis still going
<joejaxx> let us see
<joejaxx> oh crap
<joejaxx> i forgot to do apt-clean
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> apt-get clean
<joejaxx> ok building again
<joejaxx> just hit the 60mb
<joejaxx> mark
<_MMA_> Man. You need a faster machine. :)
<joejaxx> _MMA_: well it is compressing the filesystem Lol
<joejaxx> entire*
<_MMA_> how long so far?
<joejaxx> 3 minutes
<_MMA_> oh.
<joejaxx> Pentium M 1.4GHz with 1.25GBS of ram
<joejaxx> on a*
<joejaxx> 120mb mark
<joejaxx> 180mb mark
<joejaxx> woohoo
<joejaxx> 275MB
<Chandu> hi
<Chandu> good morning
<Chandu> hey , I found in README of motu-tools that ...Ping elmo to sync the package .... What is this elmo ...
<crimsun> that's outdated; ignore that.
<crimsun> the sync procedure is outlined on the wiki.
<Chandu> crimsun, can you give me the link
<nixternal> heh, that took me a sec to figure that one out..im like elmo??  then i remembered, ohhh elmo
<nixternal> LaserJockeeeeee
<LaserJock> Chandu: were did you get motu-tools?
<LaserJock> nixternal: hola senor
<joejaxx> LaserJock: really quick do you know how to hibernate from commandline?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: no I don't
<LaserJock> I've only used the KDE and Gnome tools
<joejaxx> hmm i need to figure that out hibernation from commandline
<joejaxx> that is
<joejaxx> alright then LaserJock thanks anyway :)
<crimsun> Chandu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<crimsun> odd, Banshee is crashing on submitting to last.fm
<joejaxx> LaserJock: btw the disc built it just stopped at configuring some drivers because i did not add some stuff
<joejaxx> when i booted it up that is
<joejaxx> well i am going to shutdown my laptop Goodnight #ubuntu-motu
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> cya joejaxx
<Fujitsu> 'obbsee!
<LaserJock> hmmm, somebody should go through UniverseCandidates and get rid of the ones that made it in or are completely ridiculous
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I shall take a look at it.
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: heh
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Any news on SRUs yet?
<LaserJock> well, ajmitch was going to write some stuff
<LaserJock> *cough*
<Chandu> LaserJock, I got motu-tools from this link , http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/
<Fujitsu> This is getting a bit stupid, though. I isolated the patch about a month ago.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, didn't we decide to just have a motu-uvf person ok it?
<Chandu> Hey, How to get the list of packages for the merge ..How MOM is working
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: dholbach said he'd do it after release, but I haven't seen him much.
<Chandu> I found one script in MON..grab-merge.sh ..... But I dont know how to work with that
<LaserJock> merges.ubuntu.com is the website for it
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I doubt it ;-(
<LaserJock> good thought though
<LaserJock> I think the canonical guys are on vacation
<Chandu> LaserJock, Ya , I got the link ...I founf grab-merge.sh script over there ..but How to work with that ...
<LaserJock> so once dholbach is back we can bug him
<crimsun> Chandu: read http://merges.ubuntu.com please.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yeah, I'm a failure again...
<LaserJock> don't worry ajmitch , I am too
* ajmitch goes off to his corner
<Fujitsu> That Redhat authconfig thing ended up being packaged, didn't it?
<ajmitch> no
<Chandu> crimsun, I gone through .. But Iam not able to understand
<Chandu> crimsun, it has thsi , Merges are generated by combining both the Ubuntu and Debian changes since their first common ancestor
<Hobbsee> Chandu: that's not the script that does the actual comparison
<Hobbsee> s
<Chandu> crimsun, is this pool generated manually
<Chandu> Hobbsee, then who will do that comparision ..is it done manually ..package by package
<LaserJock> Chandu: MoM tries to do it automatically
<crimsun> Chandu: it's generated by an automated tool we affectionately call MoM
<LaserJock> but in the end every one needs to be at least checked
<Hobbsee> Chandu: it's not.  the script used to compare isnt on that page
<Chandu> LaserJock, then where can I get MOM tool to do that
<Chandu> Hobbsee, Where can I get that script for comparision
<LaserJock> from Keybuck
<crimsun> (-c)
<LaserJock> but you don't need it to do the work
<LaserJock> darn, I always do that
<LaserJock> Key+buck != Keybuk
<Chandu> Hey , If I have to do it for the first time ..means I dont have my own pool for my project .. I have to careate it form debian with some gnome related and few other packages modified
<LaserJock> Chandu: what are you doing? what is this project?
<crimsun> why don't you just piggyback off the Ubuntu repo directly?
<ajmitch> Chandu: then you'll have lots of fun & lots of work
<Chandu> LaserJock, I am working on building a distro based on Debian .. I need to have a repo same as Ubuntu .. But this our first release .. We ahve modified some gnome packages and few others
<LaserJock> Chandu: ah, so it's like Ubuntu, but not?
<Chandu> LaserJock, ya ,exactly
<crimsun> if you need a repo "same as Ubuntu," why not just use the Ubuntu repo as a base?
<Chandu> LaserJock, I hope MOM will be used to compare UBUNTU and Debian repo .. But in my case we dont have our repo yet
<Chandu> LaserJock, We have a small repo of nearly 1000+ packages which have put into our single cd distro with some modified gnome packaes
<Chandu> crimsun, I cannot do that on my own when I am working under some organisation .. I have to according to them
<LaserJock> hmm, well I can't find the MoM source on people.ubuntu.com
<crimsun> will your organisation not listen to reason, then?
<LaserJock> I thought it *was* there
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It's not, and hasn't been since before Edgy's MoM.
<LaserJock> is it on LP?
<Fujitsu> I don't believe so.
<LaserJock> I thought it was available somewhere
<Fujitsu> Used to be under ~scott on p.u.c, I believe.
<Fujitsu> Not any more, though.
<LaserJock> Chandu: anyway, you can ask Keybuk for the MoM script I suppose
<LaserJock> or write you're own
<ajmitch> writing your own wouldn't be too hard
<Fujitsu> Or derive from Ubuntu, which is probably a better option.
<Fujitsu> Chandu: How many modified packages do you have?
<Chandu> Fujitsu, May be around 30+
<minghua> I assume to derive from ubuntu, translation is going to be quite a problem
<Chandu> Fujitsu, and my base is dcc
<Fujitsu> dcc?
<ajmitch> 30 packages isn't many
<Chandu> LaserJock, How can I contach Keybuk
<Chandu> LaserJock, contact Keybuck
<Hobbsee> h'es on irc
<Chandu> Hobbsee, which channel
<LaserJock> well, he's not up right now
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/keybuk
<LaserJock> ^^ has contact info
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok thank you
<Chandu> LaserJock, hey , If I know what exactly that MOM tool will do .,.. then I can write on my own
<Burgundavia> Chandu: dcc is essentially dead
<minghua> Fujitsu: maybe DCC is http://www.dccalliance.org/
<Chandu> Burgundavia, Oh... No new developments are happening
<minghua> which is quite likely dead as Burgundavia said
<Chandu> minghua, ya the same
<Burgundavia> Chandu: dcc was a stillborn idea. Base off of pure Debian or Ubuntu
<Chandu> Burgundavia, But our idea was to go for LSB certified ,,so we started with dcc
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> both debian and ubuntu will give you that
<Chandu> Burgundavia, I dont think sarge is lsb compliant .. but from etch debian is providing
<Burgundavia> yep
<minghua> I doubt you get lsb compliant effortlessly just by deriving from DCC
<Burgundavia> especially if you change any packages
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<Burgundavia> I could kiss seb128
<Burgundavia> his "upstream delta" stuff
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yes
<ajmitch> something for the MOTUs to do as well
<Burgundavia> exactly my thoughts over the last few days
<ajmitch> every package merged, the MOTU must check upstream & debian
<Burgundavia> s/days/weeks & months/
<Chandu> minghua, Ya .. We have generated the journals for lsb3.0 and lsb3.1 ..and have unofficially submitted to freedesktop.org..Which has been satisfied
<LaserJock> MOTU Science is just organizing a "reduce the delta" project
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: how does directory's delta look?
<LaserJock> I tried to work on it a little during Edgy but I had so many other things to do it slipped past me
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: no idea
<Burgundavia> there must be an easy way to generate that information
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> it's not hard
<ajmitch> but classifying the changes that we may carry is harder
<Burgundavia> I was thinking across the entire distro
<ajmitch> like MoM does?
<Burgundavia> basically
<Burgundavia> we need a -qa page, like debian has
<Chandu> hey , where do I get germinate tool for download
<Hobbsee> you write one?
<minghua> I believe germinate is packaged
<Hobbsee> ah
<LaserJock> Chandu: apt-get install germinate
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: we have http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/all-packages.html
<minghua> Burgundavia: you mean pages like the packages.qa.d.o ones?
<LaserJock> but it doesn't describe the kinds of divergence
<Burgundavia> minghua: yep
<Burgundavia> something that would merge all these various pages
<minghua> Burgundavia: yeah, those would be wonderful
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok
* minghua hates getting lost in LP maze
<LaserJock> yeah, package information is a particularly bad maze
<Burgundavia> there is no clear heirarchy
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: There is, sort of.
<Fujitsu> But it's a very convoluted hierarchy.
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: spec it
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: right, add that to my todo
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> that reminds me
<LaserJock> LP needs to grow a dotproject-like interface
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: A civilian writing an LP spec?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: dotproject?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: excuse me?
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: proper project management interface
<LaserJock> yeah, what Corey said ;-)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Isn't spec stuff for LP meant to be on their super-private wiki thingy?
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Aha.
<Burgundavia> no, launchpads wiki si open
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: so?
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: That's the documentation wiki. The proper development (ie. spec) wiki is private.
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> but that lists most of the specs
<Chandu> LaserJock, Do you know How to generate diffrerent seeds list
<ajmitch> you write them
<ajmitch> seeds are maintained manually
<LaserJock> Chandu: the seeds themselves? you just edit a plain text file with the package names
<Chandu> LaserJock, I didnt get
<LaserJock> well a seed is just a file with a list of packages
<Chandu> LaserJock, oh! I can create a seed list for desktopjust by listing the packages related to desktop in a text file ..right
<Chandu> LaserJock, Is there any syntax for that ..or just list packages
<Chandu> LaserJock, I found something different as this link .. http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/dapper/boot
<LaserJock> yeah, that's an old seed
<LaserJock> you can get the current ones from Launchpad
<Chandu> LaserJock, Oh .. Give me the link dear
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev/+branch/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.edgy
<Chandu> LaserJock, Is this launchpad si specifically for ubuntu
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> Ubuntu derivatives and other projects also use it
<Chandu> LaserJock, How do I make use of that
<LaserJock> Chandu: well, it depends on what you want to do exactly
<LaserJock> you can register an upstream product or a maybe even a distro
<LaserJock> you can use Rosetta for translations
<LaserJock> Malone for bug tracking
<LaserJock> Blueprint for specification tracking
<Chandu> LaserJock, Is it to be paid ..or its allowed for free
<LaserJock> use is free
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok
<LaserJock> it's what virtually all Ubuntu development is done on
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok
<Chandu> LaserJock, hey .. I didnt any text file of seeds in launch pad ..Do I need to check out from bzr
<Chandu> didnt get
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> Chandu: just do: bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.edgy
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok
<LaserJock> good night MOTU land
<ajmitch> night LaserJock
<naxx> ||.Req.:||  Help on building a debian package |pm me pls ;)||
<minghua> why does pm is required?  can't be talked in the channel?
<naxx> can be
<naxx> i dont mind
<naxx> i just prefer not to spam the channel
<naxx> and keep it free for others
<naxx> ||.Req.:||  Help on building a debian package |contact me pls ;)||
<ajmitch> have you looked at the ubuntu packaging guide?
<naxx> yes
<naxx> and i got some trouble
<ajmitch> it may help if you ask a more specific question then
<naxx> i can read manuals, and documentations and put it all together
<naxx> my problem is i'm trying to build a package for truecrypt
<naxx> but that stuff is weird ;)
<naxx> coz it requires some kernel modules
<naxx> and it tries to build some stuff frome the kernel src
<naxx> but the source is in a archive
<ajmitch> then you'll probably need the appropriate linux-headers package
<naxx> i know
<ajmitch> & do a bit of makefile hacking
<ajmitch> it's a shame it appears to not be free software
<ajmitch> hm, it may be
<naxx> problem is, truecrypt needs drivers/md/dm.h, and linux-headers does not include it
<ajmitch> it looks like it may allow modification & distribution of modified sources provided you don't use the truecrypt name
<naxx> i know
<ajmitch> closest match I can see is:
<ajmitch> linux-headers-2.6.17-10: /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.17-10/include/config/blk/dev/dm.h
<naxx> let me check
<ajmitch> perhaps that's not a public header
<naxx> i fear that ;)
<ajmitch> since the source tree does have drivers/md/dm.h
<naxx> exactly
<dholbach> good morning
<nemequ> is there something I can do to help make sure you don't release an ancient version of libraptor in the future? like help maintain the package, maybe?
<ajmitch> yes, you could help out, especially by filing bugs about it
<ajmitch> it's in main, so release conditions are stricter
<nemequ> Bugs like "1.4.9 is ancient, please update"?
<ajmitch> you'd have to give some reasons for it
<nemequ> I can do that.
<nemequ> thanks.
<ajmitch> it just wasn't updated once upstream version freeze hit, since automatic syncs were turned off
<ajmitch> and noone has filed any bugs about it
<nemequ> um, 1.4.10 was released in july. we're on 1.4.13 now. was there a feature freeze in july?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> upstream version freeze was july 13th
<ajmitch> 1.4.10 wasn't uploaded to debian until august 12th
<nemequ> oh bloody hell. 1.4.10 was released on the 14th.
<ajmitch> even so, syncs are based on debian packages
* Fujitsu prods dholbach with a bug #43150... Please?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in gcl "[SRU]  maxima frontends fail to connect" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<ajmitch> so dajobe didn't get it packaged for awhile
<dholbach> Fujitsu: we need a policy
<dholbach> Fujitsu: the situation has not changed :/
* ajmitch goes & hides in a corner
<dholbach> Fujitsu: and it's not only "my call"
* Fujitsu pulls ajmitch out of the corner.
<dholbach> nemequ: if you want to stay up to scratch, I'd recommend subscribing to https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-announce and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/raptor/+subscribe
<nemequ> okay well i'll file a bug in launchpad, and i'll talk to dajobe tomorrow--he just went to bed. thanks for your help.
<dholbach> nemequ: it is possible to get exceptions granted
<dholbach> nemequ: but as long as nobody has an eye on it, it doesn't happen :/
<ajmitch> nemequ: it's very unlikely that you'd get a new upstream release into edgy-updates though
<ajmitch> exceptions generally happen up to a week or two before release at the very latest
<nemequ> that's okay about it not being in updates. as long as this kind of thing doesn't happen again next release.
<dholbach> nemequ: if you could help with that, that'd be GREAT :-)
<nemequ> and I will, of course.
<dholbach> ROCK ON
* dholbach hugs nemequ
<fraco> I'm repackaging scorched3d with the latest version, and get this complaint at the end of the build: http://www.pastebin.be/3452/
<fraco> the path to docs contains two / iso only one
<fraco> I just don't know where it could come from
<fraco> (packaging newbie)
<fraco> no-one?
<nemequ> sorry guys, another question... where should I submit the bug? The raptor project on launchpad doesn't seem to be the right place to do it...
<fraco> can anyone tell me where i can go for help with packaging?
<Plug> Here, at a different time of day ;)
<Plug> Your error suggests the directory isn't being created
<fraco> US daytime is better then?
<Plug> .eu daytime I think
<Plug> hang on tho:
<Plug> how are you building the package?
<Plug> I doubt the two //s matters
<fraco> Plug: you're right, the dir isn't being created; I was staring at the //
<fraco> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<fraco> I suppose the docs have moved
<Plug> probably
<minghua> fraco: check with "fakeroot debian/rules build" first, and make sure that dir is created during build
<fraco> brb
<fraco> minghau, Plug: it is being built but at different location
<Plug> edit the debian/docs  file
<fraco> has separate package for docs, i think it is defined in debian/scorched3d-doc.install
<fraco> Plug, minghau: can I test changes to install without having to clean the entire thing?
<fraco> fakeroot debian/rules install ?
<Plug> "dpkg-buildpackage -nc" will do what you want
<Plug> (no clean)
<fraco> got past the docs now
<fraco> thnx
<fraco> I edited the pastebin with a new error i get now http://www.pastebin.be/3452/
<fraco> i really don't have a clue - stumped
<Plug> isnt that the same error as before?
<fraco> i reused the pastebin
<fraco> still shows
<fraco> ill make a new one i guess
<fraco> http://www.pastebin.be/3455/
<fraco> i'll try to build it clean, maybe some file hanging around
<Plug> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=375749
<Plug> could be relevant.
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 375749 in dpkg-dev "tar: -: file name read contains nul character" [Important,Closed] 
<minghua> that's harmless
<fraco> ah
<fraco> I had lack of patiance then
<fraco> i thought the build was hanging on that
<fraco> but just a warning
<fraco> thnx again
<giskard> hello
<fraco> how do i get an app to install in the ubuntu games dir instead of in the debian/games/strategy dir?
<azeem> fraco: ship a proper .desktop file
<fraco> links 2 wiki?
<azeem> no idea
<xerxas> Hi everyone !
<fraco> so now, with the help of Plug and minghua i made a updated package for scorched3d
<fraco> should i leave it to the original contributor to update the repos
<fraco> (me being a packaging virgin and not part of the MOTU team)
<fraco> should i send it to the original contributor (==siretart)?
<fraco> should i step in and follow the wiki to upload the package for review and later inclusion?
<fraco> I'm willing to work through that if it helps
<fraco> but only if it helps
<bjp> hi guys, I've merged the original debian-unstable package of flamerobin to an ubuntu package. Should I build the package with debuild -S -sa and dput it, like necessary for other packages?
<Fujitsu> bjp: Is the package currently in unstable?
<bjp> Fujitsu: yes it is
<Fujitsu> bjp: It is new, correct?
<bjp> Fujitsu: well it's accepted in unstable about a month ago so it's pretty new yes
<Fujitsu> OK, so what do you mean when you say you've merged it?
<Fujitsu> There aren't any Ubuntu changes to merge with...
<bjp> Fujitsu: I've changed the package maintainer in debian/control and bumped the version in debian/changelog (concatenated it with '~ubuntu.1')
<Fujitsu> bjp: Why did you change the maintainer?
<bjp> Fujitsu: you're right, I'm sorry. I meant that I've adapted the debian contents for ubuntu
<bjp> Fujitsu: the debian maintainer told me too
<Fujitsu> No adaptations are required in the vast majority of packages.
<bjp> s/too/to/
<Fujitsu> Er, why!?
<Fujitsu> Did the Debian maintainer give a reason for changing the maintainer field?
<bjp> Fujitsu: one moment please, I'll ask..
<Fujitsu> OK.
<ogra> if its in universe it will get imported automatically anyway
<ogra> no need to change anything except it breaks
<Fujitsu> ogra: Not automatically, AFAIK.
<Fujitsu> Upon our request, yes. There's no need to change anything, unless the Debian maintainer has an incredibly good reason for it.
<ogra> if MOM runs for feisty it will get imported automatically
<ogra> MOM imortas all packages automatically that have no -XubuntuX in the versioning
<ogra> *imports
<Fujitsu> I'm pretty sure it doesn't automatically import new ones...
<ogra> or that are manually blacklisted because we are uzpstream (i.e. ltsp)
<ogra> if it doessnt, thats a bug
<ogra> it did before afaik
<bjp> ogra: well okay, but AFAIK it isn't imported yet.. how long does it take?
<Fujitsu> I would consider it a bug if it DID import new source packages without checking.
<Fujitsu> bjp: Once Feisty opens, it could take a few days.
<ogra> bjp, it has to wait until the archive opens
<Fujitsu> bjp: Has the maintainer given a reason yet?
<ogra> and MOM runs indeed
<bjp> Fujitsu: nope not yet, he's busy right now and will answer me later..
<ogra> its very very odd to have to maintain a delta manually for a maintainer name change
<ogra> we usually dont do that
<Fujitsu> Add a couple of verys to ogra's statement, and you get my view.
<bjp> Fujitsu: :-)
<bjp> Fujitsu: well I guess he isn't that aware of the Ubuntu system. Maybe I'm just having the wrong approach to get a flamerobin package included in Ubuntu. What steps should I take to do it, or should I wait for a system that includes it automatically?
<Fujitsu> bjp: Source packages are (unless requiring modifications) synced straight from Debian, with no changes at all. That includes most of the archive.
<Fujitsu> You should wait until Feisty opens, and wait a few days to see if it appears. If not, file a bug requesting it be synced, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to get a developer to approve it.
<bjp> Fujitsu: well, shouldn't it have appeared in edgy as the debian package is accepted in unstable over a month ago now?
<Fujitsu> bjp: No. Autosyncing was turned off in mid-July.
<thom> bjp: no, edgy was frozen some time ago
<bjp> Fujitsu: okay I see
<bjp> Fujitsu: so it will be synced to Feisty sometime soon as far as you consider this?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<bjp> Fujitsu: okay well I'll just wait for that moment then :-) any ideas on the time period before Feisty is opened? And the sync system runs every night I guess?
* StevenK waits for Feisty to open so he can deal with his 11 merges and then get bored again.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I've almost finished my 19.
<StevenK> Heh. I've glanced at 3 of them, all of them turn into syncs.
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu
<fraco> I updated a package (scorched3d) with the latest version
<fraco> should I now upload it for review and later inclusion
<fraco> or should a packaging virgin and not motu team member leave it be
<fraco> or maybe i should contact the original packager for ubuntu?
* luisbg_zZzZz luisbg
<luisbg_zZzZz> hi all
<siretart> fraco: do you happen to have your contribution in a bzr branch?
<siretart> fraco: I (at least) try to maintain it in debian, so that both distros profit from that
<fraco> i don't even know what a bzr branch is
<siretart> fraco: the current problem of scorched3d is that it uses a non-free font, which renders the package undistributable
<fraco> I c
<fraco> no, i didn't take any of that into account
<siretart> I'd be happy to upgrade the package 40.1b, if someone could provide me the replacement font
<fraco> how did you do it for the older releases?
<siretart> what?
<fraco> replace the font
<siretart> for older releases, we didn't notice that problem
<fraco> ah
<siretart> this is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=298932, btw
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 298932 in scorched3d-data "scorched3d-data: contains non-free fonts" [Serious,Closed] 
<fraco> so there will not be an offical universe package until someone fixes that font?
<siretart> I should 'import' it into launchpad.net as well, right
<siretart> fraco: unless that issue is fixed, I cannot upload a newer package to debian
<siretart> fraco: and I really like it to be fixed in debian first. OTOH, we don't want non-free stuff in multiverse as well, so..
<fraco> the reason i went and produced a package is that as a user i *just want* scorched3d :-S
<siretart> fraco: btw, I talked to Gavin (scorched3d upstream). he agreed to include new fonts if I could provide some
<siretart> fraco: I know. however you need to see that the package does have problems. I'm no font artist either
<fraco> I c
<siretart> and I'd really appreciate an updated scorched3d as well ;) - I love that game
<fraco> same here
<fraco> actually, as I don't care much (maybe not enough) about the non-freedness of the font, I have my own packages now
<fraco> however, I imagine it's frustrating for other players
<fraco> I'm not sure if I can help anything in the font department (being a newb in packaging and totally in fonts)
<fraco> however, if I do get any results, I'll ping you again ?
<siretart> fraco: the bug already mentions a good replacement font I intend to use. we only need an 'outline' font based on that
<fraco> so we need a font artist
<fraco> !=me
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about me - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<fraco> which im not
<siretart> fraco: I've looked into the issue again this weekend with a friend.  it doesn't look to hard to create such a font
<fraco> never even tried that
<DarkMageZ> siretart, what is the licencing on the font?
<fraco> willing to try, but I have serious doubts on how far I would get
<siretart> but if you happen to meet someone who can handle fontforge, just ask him to do such an outline font based on the bitstream font
<fraco> if I do happen to meet someone like that, I will
<siretart> DarkMageZ: the copyright is "all rights preseverd, including modification and redistribution"
<fraco> dont put any money on it though...
<DarkMageZ> oh, that IS serious
<siretart> yepp
<fraco> siretart: btw. why is nvidia-glx marked as a conflicts?
<siretart> fraco: of scorched3d? it isn't
<siretart> only as build-conflicts
<fraco> ok as build-conflicts then?
<Hobbsee> so that the nvidia package doesnt become a dependancy of it
<siretart> to prevent building against the non-free headers. use a changeroot with the mesa headers
<Hobbsee> that too
<fraco> *ding*
<fraco> Ok, out of my depth
<fraco> nm
<fraco> I'll google some on that
<fraco> siretart: thnx for the info, If I have something on the fonts I'll get back to you.
<siretart> fraco: ok. great!
<fraco> if for some reason you would be interested in the package I made, you can contact me of course
<siretart> fraco: what did you need to change?
<siretart> besides debian/changelog and the new upstream tarball?
<fraco> erm the alut stuff (but you had a patch for that
<fraco> removed some patches
<fraco> did the .configure with an extra flag (to prevent it from choking on the openal/alut stuff)
<fraco> docs have moved up one dir
<fraco> thats all
<fraco> not much
<siretart> yes, many patches can be dropped (and are already in my bzr branch)
<DarkMageZ> !bzr > DarkMageZ
<fraco> extra configure flag was --disable-openaltest
<fraco> but i think you did work around that in a different way
<siretart> ah, that broken configure snippet, yes, I think I fixed that check
<siretart> at least in my local copy
<fraco> ok, well, erm, big thnx for maintaining that fun game
<siretart> :)
<Hobbsee> thom: +1 on yoru post on -devel
<Hobbsee> (ML)
<jsgotangco> nice post
<thom> i think the big problem is going to be providing an infrastructure that makes sense for kde and gnome; it may well be that the one-size-fits-all style of beryl isn't appropriate
<gnomefreak> antone else think its a good ideat o get frostwire in multiverse?
<gnomefreak> s/antone/anyone  s/ideat o/idea to
<thom> i have no idea what frostwire is, so you may want to provide some more details
<gnomefreak> thom: an Opensource p2p app. pretty much Open Souce version of limewire also runs on java.
<gnomefreak> !frostwire
<ubotu> frostwire is a totally open source version of Limewire.  For installation help, please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FrostWire
<gnomefreak> what spurs me asking is they never build a version of the installer to work with dash. many users use this app and i have had to fix a few people so far with the bash/dash conversion
<azeem> so why in multiverse?
<gnomefreak> azeem: i was thinking universe but since it depends on java it should be a canidate for multiverse
<azeem> oh, I assumed there was a free java stack in Ubuntu by now
<gnomefreak> unless it can be compiled with gcj but i doubt it
<azeem> well, would be useful to research that
<gnomefreak> agreed but my knowledge is slim when it come to packaging it may take me a while to figure it out. and i didnt want to spend a week on packaging it if it was not possible to be added to repos. i dont know why its not there now
<gnomefreak> i wrote frostwire an email about building an edgy version of saturday so im expecting a reply on that (makes packaging a bit easier not having to change the installer script)
<azeem> why does it have an installer anyway?
<gnomefreak> azeem: cause its writen in java i assume
<azeem> *blink* :)
<gnomefreak> it would be nice if we can drop the installer but thats well over my head
* gnomefreak still not sure if apt/dpkg can read the installer
<gnomefreak> maybe the reason its not in repos
<gnomefreak> however there are .debs built for it on their site
<azeem> ah, so the .debs don't use the installer?
<gnomefreak> azeem: im assuming they do. since the .deb wont install on edgy proprely because of the #!/bin/sh
<gnomefreak> the installer is made to run on bash
<gnomefreak> downloading the .deb and opening it i never saw the installer file but i might have missed it
<bhale> debconf at 9600baud is painful
<bhale> ncurses that is
<zul> bhale: what are you doing to use 9600 baud?
<bhale> zul: serial console server
<zul> ah
<bhale> it could do much faster
<bhale> but 9600 is default
<bhale> i got tired of managing remote servers via the network
<bhale> there is an obvious problem with this
<Jozo-> Is there any chances push fixed gnunet-package to edgy-updates? See bug 66467 and bug 66507
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66467 in gnunet "Missing dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66467
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66507 in gnunet "[DEBDIFF]  gnunet: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66507
<sivang> hi all
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hi sivang, hi bddebian
<gnomefreak> in theroy we would like all scripts to run in dash instead of bash correct?
<gnomefreak> theory even
<thom> well, if you want them to work as /bin/sh there's no theory about it
<trappist> gnomefreak: if they're POSIX-compliant, yeah
<gnomefreak> doesnt seem to be so changing the #!/bin/sh to #!/bin/bash is ok?
<thom> if you _have_ to. fixing the script would be better IMO
<gnomefreak> thom: yeah figured as much
<gnomefreak> will see if i can find where its defined other than #!
<bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga
<trappist> gnomefreak: what script?
<gnomefreak> AVA_PROGRAM_DIR="$D/bin/"  that looks like it needs to be changed
<gnomefreak> +J in front
<gnomefreak> frostwire
<gnomefreak> assuming this means no gcj # short-circuit gcj
<trappist> that looks like it ought to be find
<trappist> most of the stuff breaking in dash has to do with command substitution
<trappist> s/find/fine/
<gnomefreak> everything i see is defining javas path not so much bash/dash
<thom> gnomefreak: does it run with /bin/sh ? if not, what are the errors
<gnomefreak> its a 9 error
<gnomefreak> oops
<gnomefreak> ( error
<gnomefreak> cant read the (
<thom> paste the whole thing, or run it as "sh -x foo" and see exactly what the line is that fails
<zul> anyone know if its ok to remove the files in /var/run/sudo?
<gnomefreak> ok let me see if i can try to install her
<trappist> zul: I don't have a /var/run/sudo
<gnomefreak> it installs fine when you go to run it you get runFrost.sh: 44: Syntax error: "(" unexpected (expecting "}")
<gnomefreak> line 44 looks noraml
<gnomefreak> so does 43 and 45
<trappist> gnomefreak: got a link to the script?  pastebin maybe?
<gnomefreak> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29375/
<trappist> ah, I knew I'd see command substitution on line 44 :)
<gnomefreak> trappist: english please
<gnomefreak> lol
<gnomefreak> you mean the j*
<gnomefreak> i dont see an ending "
<trappist> I mean the ``
<gnomefreak> i see beginning
<gnomefreak> nvm i found it
<gnomefreak> ` isnt a sub is it since it has one at beginngina nd end?
<gnomefreak> beginning
<trappist> gnomefreak: try getting rid of the parens
<gnomefreak> ` or "
<gnomefreak> ack )?
<gnomefreak> would the deb use the same .sh file as the tar?
<gnomefreak> runFrost.sh: 45: Syntax error: Bad substitution
<gnomefreak> after removing the ( )
<gnomefreak> in line 44
<trappist> change that to
<trappist> for D in "$potential_java_dirs"; do
<gnomefreak> mind you this is witout changing the #!
<trappist> (line 45)
<gnomefreak> ok trying
<gnomefreak> hmmmmmm thats not good
* Nafallo ska starta om till ny krna
<gnomefreak> now its not seeing my java
<gnomefreak> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29381/
<bhale> [[ is bash, no?
<bhale> there is a binary version for compatibility
<bhale> er, only [
<gnomefreak> bhale: it gonna end up being chaning the full script to do this and i will be looking it up
* gnomefreak will wait someone see what he would like to be done. (also waiting for email from frostwire
<joejaxx> LaserJock: hello
<joejaxx> :)
<LaserJock> hi joejaxx
<joejaxx> i wanted to ask you if you could be motu mentor
<joejaxx> since you already help me :)
<joejaxx> hmm if i just built a package that is in edgy but for dapper that should be in backports
* joejaxx moves the package
<joejaxx> my motu mentor*
<LaserJock> joejaxx: sure, that's fine
<joejaxx> LaserJock: alright
<LaserJock> regarding motu mentorship
<giskard_> hello  LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi giskard
<imbrandon> ugh
<imbrandon> today sucks
<imbrandon> i think i'm gonna get an ulcer
<imbrandon> i think i /have/ an ulcer
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :\
<zul> imbrandon: that sucks..
<imbrandon> zul: well thasts not the bad news, its becouse i got divorce papers today
<imbrandon> :(
<zul> doh!~
<imbrandon> fsk, i need to call a lawer
<joejaxx> :(
<imbrandon> and i really think i have an ulcer now
<imbrandon> man today is gonna suck
<zul> it could be worse..
<imbrandon> i guess, i just cant see how right now
<Tonio_> hi
<imbrandon> ello Tonio_
<Tonio_> imbrandon: ;)
<Tonio_> imbrandon: I finally bought a dual core......
<Tonio_> third laptop of the year..... shame on me
<imbrandon> heh
<zul> imbrandon: you could loose your foot due to frost bite
<_MMA_> imbrandon: Sorry to hear the news. Thats a shame.
<imbrandon> zul: haha
<imbrandon> i need a stiff drink
<zul> zul: then we could call you clubby
<imbrandon> i think i'm gonna go get sloshed tonight
<_MMA_> Ill buy one at UDS. ;)
<Tonio_> imbrandon: good point is that the seller was an ubuntu user, so when I show him my ubuntu card, he reduced the price 300..... I was completly amazed :)
<imbrandon> Tonio_: rockin
<Tonio_> imbrandon: absolutly :)
<imbrandon> man my head is going 100000 miles an hour
<Tonio_> imbrandon: did you test my patches for multimedia simplification ?
<Tonio_> packages are available for edgy, waiting for feisty
<_MMA_> imbrandon: Do you have kids?
<imbrandon> yea 3
<imbrandon> Tonio_: cool, i'm not really in the rightn frame of mind to test them right now, but i will
<_MMA_> Wow. Im sorry to hear that man. Thats rough. I have 2.
<Tonio_> imbrandon: better wait for mtv now.... :)
<imbrandon> _MMA_: http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/all.gif has 2 of them in the pic
<_MMA_> Cute :) http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1189795&postcount=12 Me and mine.
<herzi> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> herzi: pong
<herzi> dholbach: about a year ago you told me about your network-lib?
<dholbach> oh man
<herzi> can you set up a repository for it?
* herzi hides...
<dholbach> I'll have to dig it out
<dholbach> you'll be thoroughly disappointed
<dholbach> phone brb
<herzi> k
* Tonio_ hugs imbrandon
<Tonio_> I didn't read the log before speaking here....
<Tonio_> stupid of me
<imbrandon> :) its all good
<fernando> hi all
<joejaxx> any documentation on how to properly go about putting a package into dapper-backports?
<Burgwork> joejaxx: it needs to be in dapper itself
<Burgwork> and then you ask for it via a bug report
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what do you mean by "putting"
<joejaxx> well i was building this packages for testing on fluxbuntu
<joejaxx> and it is already packaged
<joejaxx> for dapper
<joejaxx> but it was for edgy
<LaserJock> ok, what package is this?
<joejaxx> xcompmgr
<LaserJock> joejaxx: and you want 1.1.3?
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> i am about to try the package on my system
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> i still need to run linda and litian
<LaserJock> then you need to file a backports request
<joejaxx> lintian
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh
<joejaxx> oh ok
<marv_> hi, the easiest way to include my debian packages to ubuntu universe is to upload to REVU, right?
<LaserJock> marv_: are they already in Debian?
<marv_> LaserJock: yes
<marv_> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=Marvin+Stark&comaint=yes
<LaserJock> marv_: then they should be automatically be included when we sync for Feisty
<marv_> LaserJock: ah ok right, but do i receive bug reports from ubuntu?
<marv_> or is the maintainer changed?
<LaserJock> well, the Maintainer: field will change per Debian's request
<bhale> marv_: bug mail isnt automatically sent to the Maintainer from control
<bhale> marv_: (from Ubuntu)
<LaserJock> but there is another field that will have your name
<bhale> you can search bugs by package
<imbrandon> you can add your self to the bugmail in LP easy
<bhale> or subscribe to a package
<joejaxx> LaserJock: well the package works :)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: did you have to change anything to get it to work on Dapper?
<joejaxx> nope
<LaserJock> good
<marv_> LaserJock: is there only a sync if ubuntu gets updated?
<joejaxx> LaserJock:  *** 1.1.3~20060831-0ubuntu1 0
<joejaxx>         500 http://archive.fluxbuntu.net dapper/main Packages
<joejaxx>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<LaserJock> we sync to Debian sid at the beginning of each release cycle
<LaserJock> but you can request a manual sync later on if it's needed
<marv_> LaserJock: ok, universerse is comparable with sid, right?
<bhale> marv_: sortof?
<bhale> thats wheremost packages come from
<LaserJock> it's a snapshot of sid plus any Ubuntu specific packages and a few other packages
<marv_> my target is, that my packages are well tended on debian and ubuntu ;-)
<LaserJock> sure
<bhale> sounds good
<LaserJock> that's my target too :-)
<joejaxx> qqq/win 11
<LaserJock> marv_: If I were you I'd put myself as a bug contact for the packages I maintain in Debian
<LaserJock> marv_: and if there are particular things the Ubuntu people need to know just ping them on IRC or ubuntu-motu mailing list
<LaserJock> the MOTU can't always keep everything maintained as we would like
<LaserJock> so just getting a little "heads up" from the Debian maintainers is really nice
<marv_> ok.
<crimsun> ProN00b: please do not fill -devel will senseless drivel. Those applications are not relevant to Ubuntu development. Ask in here regarding updates -- and specifically WHAT YOU CAN DO to help maintain them. Complaining that they're nonexistent or outdated is likely to be ignored if you're not going to step up.
<gnomefreak> im assuming we are still all kinds of frozen?
<gnomefreak> for edgy
<imbrandon> as its stable yes, any edgy updates have to go through the SRU processes
<gnomefreak> ah
* gnomefreak just waiting on a few updates is the reason i asked
<imbrandon> crimsun, did you hear any word on -backports ? amarok is ready to go so it might be a good "test"
<gnomefreak> backports not -updates?
<imbrandon> gnomefreak, yes becouse its a new upstream version , not a simple fix to an existing version
<gnomefreak> ah
<ajmitch> morning all
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<gnomefreak> good morning ajmitch
<herzi> dholbach: back?
<dholbach> yes
<herzi> so, where'd you like to host that code?
<dholbach> herzi: I will try to find it (I think I have it burnt on a CD or something) and send you a tarball
<dholbach> it's horribly broken and maybe won't even build
<dholbach> so I doubt i'll put it online anywhere atm
<herzi> okay
<herzi> i might ping you on saturday again :)
<dholbach> won't be here on saturday, but i'll look into it
<herzi> thank you
<ajmitch> what fun code have you written, dholbach ?
<dholbach> for my thesis, nothing fancy :)
<ajmitch> aha :)
<luisbg> the english expresion "what so ever" is it written like that?
<bhale> whatsoever
<luisbg> all together?
<bhale> yes.
<luisbg> ok, look at bug number 65450
<luisbg> I just apt installed it with no problem whatsoever
<luisbg> was just going to add a comment saying so
* bhale pokes sivang 
<luisbg> should I make the comment or check with you guys the bug doesn't really exist first?
<bhale> did you install every binary
<bhale> or one?
<bhale> you should not ask us if you are sure
<luisbg> did apt-get install libao-ruby
<bhale> no no
<luisbg> and it got libao-ruby1.8 too and installed it all
<bhale> apt-cache showsrc libao-ruby | grep inar
<bhale> install all of them
<bhale> if you havent already
<luisbg> it also depends on libao-ruby1.6 (which is broken)
<bhale> there you go
<bhale> the cause of the bug
<luisbg> but shouldn't it work with libao-ruby1.8 only?
<bhale> a binary from that source is uninstallable
<bhale> its a bug
<luisbg> so I should like at why libao-ruby1.6 is not working, right?
<imbrandon> right
<geser> I assume it's because libruby1.6 is gone (only libruby1.8 and 1.9 is there)
<luisbg> libao-ruby1.6 depends on libruby1.6 when that's obsolete, it's libruby1.8
<luisbg> damn... you wrote it at the same time as I did
<luisbg> so I'm going to update the depends of libruby1.6 =)
<bhale> in that case it should stop building libao-ruby1.6
<bhale> no?
<luisbg> and building libao-ruby1.8?
<bhale> why make 1.6 depend on 1.8
<bhale> defeats the purpose it seems
<luisbg> it seamed weird to me to depend on two versions of the same thing, must be for some reason
<geser> libao-ruby1.8 exists
<bhale> so that ruby 1.6 and 1.8 are paralel installable
<bhale> but apperantly 1.6 is being dropped?
<luisbg> geser, yes yes, libao-ruby depends on 1.6 and 1.8
<bhale> would be nice to hear that from the ruby guys
<luisbg> so where are the ruby guys to ask?
<geser> http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/sound/libao-ruby shows only libao-ruby1.8
<luisbg> geser, apt tells an other story
<luisbg> but then that means the package should depend only in 1.8
<geser> $ apt-cache show libao-ruby | grep Depends
<geser> Depends: libao-ruby1.8
<luisbg> geser, yes... that's why I could install it without problems but...
<crimsun> imbrandon: no. I wouldn't count on it until feisty's floodgates open.
<luisbg> d33p@selene:~/Desktop/development/ubuntu$ apt-cache showsrc libao-ruby | grep inar
<luisbg> Binary: libao-ruby, libao-ruby1.8, libao-ruby1.6
<geser> yes, the source package builds also libao-ruby1.6 but libao-ruby doesn't depend on it
<luisbg> geser, in the debian/control of libao-ruby there is a package: libao-ruby1.6
<luisbg> the package installs and works, but that section is obsolete
<luisbg> seams like 1.6 is deprecated
<trappist> I don't see a reason to keep the 1.6 stuff
<luisbg> me neither
<geser> if you stop building libao-ruby1.6 (remove from control) then the bug is fixed
<trappist> you'd also want to remove it from debian/rules
<luisbg> removing it and sending the debdiff as a comment to launchpad
<trappist> lines 24-28
<luisbg> trappist, ok thanks
<trappist> so then of course you want to remove the build-depends too from control
<imbrandon> crimsun, figured as much, wish we could upload directly :(
<crimsun> imbrandon: you could try after asking kamion/infinity/keybuk
<luisbg> in the changelogs it isn't "unstable" anymore right? is it "edy" or "feisty"?
<crimsun> luisbg: the latter.
<imbrandon> yea i asked in general in -devel, but i'll do it again when one of them is "awake"
<imbrandon> luisbg, correct "feisty"
<luisbg> =)
<imbrandon> gnomefreak, you still arround, i got to looking at the frostwire packages , seems only needs 3 small changes to work great
* tritium curses openoffice and banishes it to hell for being unable to change default printer settings
<joejaxx> backporting is fun
<joejaxx> except when you have to backport the package's dependencies and their dependencies haha
<imbrandon> joejaxx, that wouldent be my choice of words :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :P
<joejaxx> imbrandon: ^
<imbrandon> joejaxx, thats when it becomes in pratical to backport something, it should be able to be backported alone :)
<imbrandon> s/in pratical/impratical/
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah :)
<luisbg> debdiff sent =), I have sent a few ones in the last days... how do I know if they have actually been looked at by a MOTU and possibly uploaded?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: like i am looking about backporting usplash also
<joejaxx> usplash-dev that is
<ajmitch> luisbg: you've subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug?
<luisbg> ajmitch, yes =)
<imbrandon> joejaxx, wow , to what ? if you mean from edgy to dapper, why on earth would you ?
<ajmitch> ok, then someone will get to them in time
<imbrandon> luisbg, yup it will get taken care of then
<joejaxx> imbrandon: well for productivityu
<joejaxx> productivity :)
<luisbg> my question was how I know it has been taken care of
<ajmitch> luisbg: you'll see comments on the bug
<imbrandon> a comment on the bug ( along with it being closed when it has )
<luisbg> cool
<ajmitch> we can't upload anything at the moment
<imbrandon> and since you made a comment or filed the bug you will get an email notification about it
<luisbg> frozen
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i am told that the new usplash supports more colours
<luisbg> how does the assigning bugs work in launchpad? I mean when it is used?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: instead of the normal 16
<imbrandon> joejaxx, it does but its very very involved package, you will have to backport many many packages and libs for little or no benifet
<imbrandon> and introduce more bugs into a stable release
<joejaxx> imbrandon: well i do not have rights to upload to the repository
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> so i'm still at the stance "why on earth would you?" , instaead of just using edgy if you want "bling"
<joejaxx> imbrandon: there whould not be an bugs
<joejaxx> as it whould not be uploaded
<joejaxx> imbrandon: because edgy has problems in this application
<imbrandon> joejaxx, even if it was used localy , it took the devs many months to get it right and it still falls back on amd64 and such
<imbrandon> right but it still boils down to why you "need" more colors for usplash , time spent getting that to work ( weeks at the leaste ) on dapper would be better spent getting the app in question to work on edgy , and also benifet others too
<imbrandon> but again , its your time, i cant tell you what to do, just seems off base to me
<joejaxx> imbrandon: for fun
<imbrandon> okies :)
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: just trying to explore all the jobs of a motu
<joejaxx> that you all do
<joejaxx> right now i have building a package from source, backporting
<joejaxx> i still do not know how to update or patch packages
<joejaxx> or maybe i do and i just do not understand that terminology
<ajmitch> luisbg: please remember to use x.y-zubuntu1 versioning
<ajmitch> so that 0.1-1 becomes 0.1-1ubuntu1, not 0.1-2
<crimsun> betterdesktop.org has some interesting usage videos
<luisbg> ajmitch, oops
<luisbg> ajmitch, going to fix, sorry
<luisbg> ajmitch, since when is this new ubuntu versioning?
<Plug> imbrandon: can I grab your art-staging.ubuntu.com g2 theme?
<Burgwork> luisbg: since the very beginning of ubuntu
<imbrandon> Plug, yes its on art.ubuntu.com live now, but sure
<Burgwork> luisbg: it means that when we sync -2 from debian, we don;t have issues
<imbrandon> Plug, need me to tar it up for you ?
<ajmitch> luisbg: it's always been like this, for any changes we make
<Plug> imbrandon: I have another site that could benefit from having it
<Plug> imbrandon: if you could, that would be great!
<imbrandon> Plug, yea give me a few minutes to finish this upload then i'll login and grab it
<Plug> cool, no hurry
<luisbg> Burgwork, ajmitch, ooooh, wondered because I've seen a few packages without this versioning
<ajmitch> because they're unmodifed from debian
<luisbg> ajmitch, ok cool
<imbrandon> hrm who is the copyright holder for the software hosted on gnu.org , the FSF ? or the upstream authors
<imbrandon> ( thinking about gnash )
<ajmitch> whatever the copyright says
<crimsun> imbrandon: the authors listed here: http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewcvs/gnash/AUTHORS?rev=1.2.2.1&root=gnash&view=markup
<imbrandon> yea i have the authors but not sure whom to list as the copyright holder in the debian/copyright
<ajmitch> imbrandon: look at the source licensing headers
<imbrandon> it lists the FSF , so i guess thats it
<imbrandon> crimsun, you said libmad0-dev is likely not to stay in main for feisty possibly? should i not link against it ?
<imbrandon> err s/-dev//
<LaserJock> imbrandon: are you doing backports already?
<imbrandon> amarok 1.4.4 , yea
<crimsun> imbrandon: no, I said I'd be pleased if it didn't remain in main
<crimsun> (it and xmms)
<imbrandon> crimsun, ahh ok, hrm well i'm at the point now i'm ready to upload gnash to REVU for some crituque before feisty opens , but the only "questionable" thing i can see is it ( optionaly ) uses libmad0 for mp3 stuff
<crimsun> gnash would be universe, no?
<imbrandon> to begin with, but i could see it easly goto main if it matures a bit
<crimsun> if it remains in universe, I see no reason not to link against libmad
<ajmitch> crimsun: gtk+ 1.2 should be dropped from main
<imbrandon> yea i guess that could always be removed later ( as its a ./configure option )
<crimsun> oh happy day when that happens
* TheMuso is surprised GTK 1.2 is in main, and checks what needs it.
<crimsun> xmms.
<ajmitch> I don't know the justification of xmms remaining in man
<ajmitch> s/man/main/
<ajmitch> laggy ssh today :)
<Burgwork> ajmitch: likely canonical staff
<TheMuso> Righ
<TheMuso> right
<Burgwork> seems everybody is having issues with typing today
<TheMuso> Rhythmbox is better than xmms IMO.
<Burgwork> yes, yes it is
<Burgwork> but there are oldschool people hooked on xmms
<ajmitch> Burgwork: git is taking much of my bandwidth getting the latest feisty kernel code
<imbrandon> yea but old school can enable universe hehe
<Burgwork> yes, yes they can
<imbrandon> but it is the only thing that plays mp3s OOTB i guess in main
<ajmitch> I used to be hooked on xmms as well
<Burgwork> welcome to "I work for a Linux distro company"
<bhale> it might end up being orphaned
<ajmitch> until I realised that it's crap
<Burgwork> therefor I get my crap in main
<imbrandon> heh i uesd xmms untill i learned about amarok :)
* TheMuso used to use rhythmbox, but is now hooked on mpd.
<bhale> Burgwork: eh i have had people buy into putting stuff in main w/o much question as well
<crimsun> gst-launch-0.10 all the way.
<LaserJock> I just don't listen to music
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I can't go without it
<LaserJock> it just distracts me from my raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU behaviors
<crimsun> yeah, us lowly mortals have to have some distractions
<LaserJock> haha
<ajmitch> it helps lift me to even higher levels of hacking :)
<LaserJock> well, I listen to some music
<ajmitch> so that one day, I can hope to be as great as LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> but I have pretty much stopped watching TV and playing games because of Ubuntu
<Burgwork> so have I
* LaserJock fires up rhythmbox
<LaserJock> I think I have some music on this thing
<joejaxx> i have not used rhythmbox before
<ajmitch> but music while hacking is essential
* ajmitch listens to a fairly broad range
<_MMA_> Laserjock: Have you tried "Listen"?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what kind of music do you listen to while hacking, everything?
<Burgwork> _MMA_: that bastard child of rb and muine?
<_MMA_> Yea. :)
<LaserJock> most of my stuff is rock/alternative
<ajmitch> LaserJock: classic rock, classical, gregorian chant, you name it :)
<LaserJock> maybe I need to go classical for hacking
<_MMA_> http://listengnome.free.fr/
<ajmitch> nothing better than banging out some code while listening to Bach :)
<Burgwork> you can also write marketing and docs well to bach or gregorian chant
<crimsun> I tried Banshee yesterday; I like it
<LaserJock> oh, I do have a Norah Jones cd on here
<LaserJock> that's about as low key as I've got
<ajmitch> I need to get something portable that I can take to work
<ajmitch> something that'll play the many .ogg files I have
<LaserJock> my grandpa was offering to give me a ipod nano loaded with old gospel tunes he likes
<LaserJock> I wonder if I should take him on on that
<crimsun> definitely. Then install rockbox or whatnot on it.
<Burgwork> crimsun: try changing your username to jono and run banshee
<LaserJock> Burgwork: what?
* TheMuso listens to music on and off. The problem is that it interfears with listening to my speech synth.
<Burgwork> abock wrtoe some special jono-only code
<LaserJock> haha
<ajmitch> Burgwork: why does that not surprise me?
<ajmitch> what sort of special code is it?
<Burgwork> something todo with sharing
<poningru> wtf
<Burgwork> I don't think anybody named jono can connect to other peoples shared music
<LaserJock> heh
<Burgwork> I can see the bug reports on that one
<ajmitch> how cruel
<ajmitch> slomo_ will have to deal with those :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> we need an Ubuntu patch to give our Community Manager back full functionality ;-)
<Burgwork> no we don't
<Burgwork> our community manager is fully function
<Burgwork> functional
<Burgwork> I mean, look at the dog he got ;)
<LaserJock> doh
<ajmitch> Burgwork: that's a dog? :)
<LaserJock> yeah, my wife loved that puppy
* ajmitch watches firefox spin out of control
<Burgwork> finding ephy has been freezing at least once every two hours for me
<ajmitch> this was due to a google maps thing on a page
<LaserJock> yikes
<ajmitch> it slows everything down
<poningru> ajmitch: try getting rid of their cookies
<poningru> and there are few js stuff you should disable but that doesnt allow the newer maps features to function
* ajmitch might get an old ipod or something
<_MMA_> ajmitch: My iRiver has been great and Cowon makes a good player.
<slomo_> Burgwork: oh i thought abock removed that part again
<slomo_> Burgwork: apperantly not... will be fixed with next upload ;)
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> I obviously haven't listened to music enough
<LaserJock> I can't figure out how to do much of anything cool with banshee
<LaserJock> I got all my music imported
<LaserJock> at least
<LaserJock> I guess I need to make some playlists
<Burgwork> slomo_: don't fix it
<Burgwork> slomo_: according to abock at Boston it was still there
<LaserJock> what the heck
<LaserJock> MOTU Science got an email from the gpredict maintainer asking us to sync edgy
<LaserJock> "the gpredict version living in ubuntu is way out of date."
<LaserJock> well so I finally had a look at what package we had and what Debian had
<ajmitch> I love how these things come up *after* release
<LaserJock> and Edgy's version was uploaded to Debian on 2006-07-01
<LaserJock> and he uploaded the new version on 2006-9-12
<ajmitch> Burgwork: you'll love this..
<ajmitch> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1689401#post1689401
<Admiral_Chicago> i've got a user who suggests kpowersaver be moved from the universe to defaiult repos
<Admiral_Chicago> anyone know why it's in univer
<LaserJock> ajmitch: haha
<bhale> everything is in universe until someone determines otherwise
<Burgwork> ajmitch: saw that
* Werdna invades.
<Admiral_Chicago> bhale: ah i see
<imbrandon> wow made my 3rd post on the forums
<ajmitch> Burgwork: yes, just shows the detachment of the forums from the rest of the Ubuntu world
<Burgwork> yep
<luisbg> imbrandon, url?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I've got 66 beans ;-)
<luisbg> hey LaserJock =)
<LaserJock> hi luisbg
<luisbg> when is mark giving that interview at bbc?
<imbrandon> well considering my other 2 posts were 8 or 9 months ago heh
<imbrandon> luisbg, afaik he already has
<luisbg> imbrandon, is there any digital copy in the intraweb?
<imbrandon> yea , i forgot the url, lemme look, i thought it was on the fridge
<imbrandon> lemme check
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon: i never go on the forums
<imbrandon> luisbg, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6080048.stm
<tenshu> hi all
<luisbg> imbrandon, you are a fast googler
<imbrandon> heh
<tenshu> i'm getting a weird error with pbuilder, could someone help me with my first package? http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1690387
<imbrandon> tenshu, have you read the package guide, and whats the error
<tenshu> i'm getting a "install: cannot create regular file `/tmp/buildd/ciso-1.0.0/debian/ciso/usr/bin': No such file or directory" error
<imbrandon> a forum url does me no good :)
<LaserJock> shesh
<tenshu> i read the manual on ubuntu-fr.org
<imbrandon> did you create the dir ?
* ajmitch gets annoyed with these demanding people on the forums, who say that "the devs *must* do this for feisty"
<_MMA_> luicbg: Heres a audio copy of the interview: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/downloadtrial/worldservice/digitalplanet/digitalplanet_20061023-1700_40_st.mp3
<imbrandon> in the debian/dirs file or in the makefile ?
<imbrandon> err rules file
<tenshu> imbrandon: should i create one through the app makefile (sorry i'm quite confused)
<imbrandon> no ignore i said makefile, my head was elsewhere, but you need to make it in the rules or debian/dirs
<LaserJock> tenshu: if the app's makefile doesn't you can do it in debian/dirs
<imbrandon> if you are trying to install files there
* ajmitch should stop reading now
<tenshu> i have this in rules "	$(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/ciso"
<luisbg> imbrandon, why are there so many references to microsoft in the article about mark? especially the last two paragraphs
<LaserJock> tenshu: do you have a debian/dirs file?
<tenshu> yes
<imbrandon> tenshu, i dident write it bro :)
<imbrandon> err luisbg
<LaserJock> tenshu: what's in it?
<tenshu> changelog, compat, control, copyright and rules =)
<imbrandon> then no dirs file
<tenshu> nope
<LaserJock> tenshu: no, I was asking if there was a file called dirs in debian/
<tenshu> nope
<LaserJock> tenshu: make one and put usr/bin in it
<tenshu> okai
<LaserJock> maybe that should be user/bin/
<tenshu> should i do it manually or through the rules file?
<LaserJock> just make a file called dirs in debian/
<tenshu> okay
<tenshu> am i supposed to di this every time i package something?
<imbrandon> for the most part yes, every packages is slightly diffrent though
<tenshu> ok big thanks to all of you
<tenshu> =)
<LaserJock> you're welcome ;-)
<imbrandon> :)
* imbrandon is listening to Never Been to Spain by Three Dog Night [Amarok] 
<LaserJock> good to know
<imbrandon> wont ya sleep better tonight ? hehe
* Werdna watches his dist-upgrade
<imbrandon> Tonio_, connection issues ?
* LaserJock unsubscribes from ubuntuu-uk
<imbrandon> heh , why were you subscribed to that list ?
<LaserJock> well, there was a cool post
<LaserJock> that I wanted to get in on
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> somebody wanted to start a Biobuntu
<Werdna> imbrandon: what should I package after my dist-upgrade finishes?
<luisbg> LaserJock, what's the difference between banshee and rythmbox?
<imbrandon> Werdna, as in , learning to package ?
<Werdna> yeah
<LaserJock> luisbg: well, they're different, but similar
<imbrandon> luisbg, obvious diffrence one is c++ one is c# :)
<luisbg> LaserJock, let me guess rythmbox is the c# one
<imbrandon> no
<TheMuso> Is rhythmbox C++? I thought it was just C.
<imbrandon> banshee is c#
<imbrandon> TheMuso, possibly, i combine c/c++ in my head
<luisbg> rythmbox is a little cpu heavy for what it does
<TheMuso> That could be gstreamer.
<Werdna> imbrandon: hmm?
<TheMuso> Pitty the xine back-end wasn't maintained.
<imbrandon> for what ?
<TheMuso> RHythmbox used to have a xine backend.
* imbrandon hugs his amarok-xine , but banshee does come a close second imho ( for when i use gnome )
<TheMuso> Use mpd, and your mind may be changed again.
<imbrandon> i have a daap server running
<imbrandon> on the file server that i connect to for music
<Tonio_> imbrandon: yeah my internet connections sucks for a few days now.......
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Right.
<Tonio_> imbrandon: I'm getting tired with it
<imbrandon> Tonio_, i bet
<luisbg> TheMuso, really?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: what do you use for a client
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Mostly mpc.
<TheMuso> But sometimes ncmpc, and when in GUI I use pympd.
<tenshu> Sorry this is me again, i had creted the debian/dirs and adding usr/bin in it but i still have the "install: cannot create regular file `/tmp/buildd/ciso-1.0.0/debian/ciso/usr/bin': No such file or directory"
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I used to use rhythmbox, but since I have several machines on a KVM, if I wanted to change the track, I always had to go back to the machine running rhythmbox to do so.
<TheMuso> This is where mpd is really handy.
<LaserJock> the biggest thing I like about mpc is that I can logout and switch DEs and still have my music
* Werdna shouts "WHAT SHOULD I PACKAGE AS A FIRST PACKAGE"
<TheMuso> CLients on all machines means I can change whenever I feel like it, and from the current box that I'm using.
<LaserJock> Werdna: whatever you want
<Werdna> LaserJock: I'm after ideas here/
<luisbg> TheMuso, that is cool
<imbrandon> Werdna, shouting will get you ignored more, but do any package you fancy to
<TheMuso> luisbg: Yeah it is.
<luisbg> TheMuso, how many machines do you have?
<LaserJock> Werdna: pick something on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<Werdna> I know, but I was trying to figure out which ones would be easiest
<TheMuso> luisbg: 5.
<TheMuso> One alpha, one PPC, and threst x86.
<LaserJock> Werdna: that's a very tough question to answer
<luisbg> TheMuso, alpha? why?
<LaserJock> Werdna: pick one you are interested in try it out
<TheMuso> luisbg: Because I got it for free, and I like learning about non x86 hardware.
<luisbg> TheMuso, nice, lucky you to get it for free
<tenshu> no idea guys?
<TheMuso> luisbg: Yeah.
<TheMuso> Its an old Alphastation 500.
<luisbg> nice
<TheMuso> And is singlehandedly the loudest machine I have.
<luisbg> lol
<luisbg> and why 3 x86's?
<luisbg> isn't one enough?
<TheMuso> One dual celeron, one Pentium M notebook, and one P4.
<LaserJock> tenshu: pastebin your debian/rules file
<imbrandon> tenshu, add "mkdir -p $(CURDIR)/debian/ciso/usr/lib" in the rules above the make install
<LaserJock> !pastebin > tenshu
<luisbg> TheMuso, why don't you retire the p4?
<LaserJock> retire?
<imbrandon> retire a p4 ?
<TheMuso> Because I currently haven't got the cash to upgrade it yet, and it still works fine for my needs.
<TheMuso> But I have a family member who will receive it once I move on.
* imbrandon still has a celeron 333mhz with 96mb ram in good use
<luisbg> or why did you got the dual celeron having a p4?
<tenshu> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29462/
<TheMuso> As I would like a dual core machine at some point.
<TheMuso> luisbg: I wanted a dual CPU machine.
<TheMuso> luisbg: There are people out there who have much more hardware than I ever will have.
<luisbg> TheMuso, I know
<TheMuso> But having lots of machines allows you to spread tasks between them very efficiently.
<TheMuso> Even if some of them are quite slow.
<luisbg> TheMuso, do you really have that much tasks?
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Mine is a dual celeron 466 on an Abit BP6 mobo.
<LaserJock> tenshu: and how are you building the source package?
<imbrandon> :)
<TheMuso> luisbg: SOmetimes.
<_MMA_> Speaking of hardware. Laserjock. Did you have a chat with the System76 guys?
<luisbg> I used to have a few old machines running all time, until I realized it wasn't worth it
<imbrandon> luisbg, yes , many of us have that many tasks and more
<tenshu> debuild -S -sa
<luisbg> imbrandon, like what?
<LaserJock> _MMA_: not yet, we're still getting our stuff together :/
<_MMA_> Ahh...
<_MMA_> Hopefully they make it to UDS/MV.
<TheMuso> luisbg: For example, when ripping a lot of CDs, I rip four CDs at once on four machines.
<luisbg> TheMuso, LOL
<TheMuso> Very quick and efficient overall.
<_MMA_> Laserjock: They mentioned going.
<TheMuso> And store them on one machine via NFS.
<luisbg> I just think sometimes it is useful in such puntual moments, in general it might not
<Burgwork> LaserJock: system76 going to be offering the MOTUs some buildds?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-31
<TheMuso> luisbg: And oh yeah. I have some specialist ISA hardware, so I still need the celeron.
<luisbg> cool
<LaserJock> Burgwork: _MMA_ was talking with a guy there and they sounded like they might be a possibility
<tenshu> i added mkdir lign and now it's ok
<Burgwork> very cool
<tenshu> yipee first package for me
<Burgwork> LaserJock: when it comes through, make certain ubuntu-marketing and fridge-devel got notified
* luisbg needs to go to sleep to go to class tomorrow
<LaserJock> Burgwork: sure :-)
<TheMuso> luisbg: And another thing. If one wants to test Live/Alternate CDs of Ubuntu releases, its handy to have one machine with the burner, while you test on the other machines.
<TheMuso> So I have my burner in the celeron, and use my Notebook and P4 for testing.
<TheMuso> Saves a lot of time.
<luisbg_zZzZZzZz> TheMuso, very true
* LaserJock shoots an envious glance at TheMuso 
<luisbg_zZzZZzZz> LaserJock, LOL, me too
<tenshu> Thanks again for your help =)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I have just collected this hardware over several years.
<imbrandon> ...
<earthian> It would be very nice to have someone compile wine for 64bit ubuntu and upload it to universe repositories... so people like me would not need to unsuccessfuly compile it all the time when new release comes
<imbrandon> earthian, its being working on , \sh has spent many hours on getting it working with upstream
<Burgwork> earthian: /sh tried
<earthian> ok good to hear that :)
<earthian> err.. the upstream is that new system of edgy? dapper i believe had init thing right?
<Burgwork> upstart
<Burgwork> ?
<earthian> oh
<earthian> right :)
<imbrandon> upstream is the devlopers that make wine
<earthian> btw dmraid package in edgy is broken
<earthian> would it be possible to update it asap? i can not install edgy on my raid now... kinda waiting for someone to upgrade it.. there is i think rc13 source
<earthian> but source is not compiling for me
<earthian> i am just a new ubuntu user... not a pro or so
<Burgwork> you have probably discovered why we don't have amd64 wine
<earthian> yes. i have tried compiling it myself.. but failed.
<earthian> someone from #wine-hq told me that wine can be compiled as amd64...
<earthian> will ask again tho
<earthian> :)
<earthian> thanks for hearing. leaving now.
<LaserJock> heh
<Burgwork> right
<imbrandon> wow
<Burgwork> welcome to the world of fish bowl
* LaserJock floats around
<TheMuso> Oh. There's a bunch of MOTUs.
<TheMuso> Oh. There's a bunch of MOTUs.
<TheMuso> What is a motu? :p
* LaserJock goes belly up
<LaserJock> doh
<imbrandon> lol
* Burgwork goes fishing
* imbrandon resists the worm on the hook
<imbrandon> must ... not .. eat ...
* TheMuso gets hooked by Burgwork.
<TheMuso> Oops. I didn't see that.
* Burgwork fights to reel TheMuso in
<gnomefreak> imbrandon: you gonna be around tomorrow or in like 15 hours give or take
<imbrandon> yup
<gnomefreak> can i get with you about the fixes and see if i cant build it
<gnomefreak> arouind thanish
<imbrandon> sure
<gnomefreak> ty
<imbrandon> you got anything now? i'll poke at it overnight
<imbrandon> ( even broken stuff )
<baconbacon> I can't sign anything using nautilus context menus in seahorse 0.9.5. GPA works fine with the same pgp key. 0.9.6 is released upstream and fixes this. Just saying :)
<gnomefreak> i tried removing some ( ) and ` ` but no luck so its gotta be something more
<LaserJock> baconbacon: heh, "just saying" doesn't really help it get fixed any sooner :-)
<LaserJock> baconbacon: bug reports are much more efficient
<imbrandon> gnomefreak, honestly, you can make 3 easy changes with a pritine source, change to #!/bin/bash and sh frostwire to bash frostwire and add bash to the control :)
<baconbacon> ok but seahorse is not on launchpad
<LaserJock> baconbacon: sure it is
<gnomefreak> #!/bin/bash will make sh runFrostwire.sh run
<LaserJock> baconbacon: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/seahorse
<baconbacon> "seahorse does not use Malone as its bug tracker."
<gnomefreak> no?
<gnomefreak> its in universe it should
<imbrandon> thats part of it
<LaserJock> baconbacon: well no, Seahorse upstream doesnt
<baconbacon> ok!
<LaserJock> baconbacon: but you can file a bug on the Ubuntu package
<gnomefreak> yeah upstream dont
<baconbacon> i see
<baconbacon> thanks
<gnomefreak> ok its getting to be a bad day here. i will get up with you in morning see if catn get it built right
<imbrandon> kk
* ajmitch returns from lunch
<imbrandon> ugh we really need to speed up pbuilder
<crimsun> did I mention it takes 30 minutes to resolve all the build-dependencies for vlc? :)
<TheMuso> Ouch.
<TheMuso> What speed machine is that on
<imbrandon> crimsun, i wouldent doubt it
<crimsun> AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 246 2GHz
<crimsun> it takes longer to resolve the b-ds than it does to build
<imbrandon> yup
<Fujitsu> Ooh, Opteron...
<Burgwork> zul: you checked out that virt-manager in fc6?
<ajmitch> Burgwork: yes, I've got some packages of virt-manager in progress
<TheMuso> Wow!
<Burgwork> ajmitch: ok, you guys rock
<Burgwork> wonder if you could merge virt-manager with the vmware stuff
<ajmitch> libvirt is ready, just need to get some of the virtinst stuff ported to ubuntu ways
<ajmitch> it's intended to be VM-agnostic
<LaserJock> anybody use phpwiki before?
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> is it any good?
<ajmitch> I'm not a big fan
<LaserJock> anybody use tikiwiki?
<imbrandon> hum whats the virt stuff for ?
<LaserJock> I'm trying to compare the 2
<imbrandon> tikiwiki sucks imho ( i cant give any valad reasons other than i just dident like it )
<imbrandon> valid
<ajmitch> imbrandon: xen, vmware
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea but umm what does it create dom's or something
<ajmitch> yes
<imbrandon> ah cool
<ajmitch> allocate resources, things like that
<imbrandon> very cool, remotely too?
<ajmitch> xen allows for live migration between systems
<imbrandon> true
<ajmitch> I haven't checked if it can use the network socket to talkt to xend
<imbrandon> i never quite got how it did that
<imbrandon> but it seems cool
<imbrandon> ( e.g. the live migration )
<Plug> imbrandon: got theme?
<imbrandon> yup one sec
<ajmitch> imbrandon: btw, I have that full set of beryl packages going
<imbrandon> ajmitch, rockin, minda passing some debs here so i can upgrade
<ajmitch> imbrandon: basically just hacking around in debian/rules to make stuff executable
<ajmitch> or you could remake the tarballs so that they are
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> Plug, http://federation.imbrandon.com/copyleft.tar.gz
<DarkMageZ> is #ubuntu-bugs for all bugs including universe?
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ, yes
<ajmitch> yay, keybuk writing about automatix
<imbrandon> haha yea i seen that
<DarkMageZ> ajmitch, in a good or bad light?
<imbrandon> hopefully it helps
<ajmitch> DarkMageZ: that it's the cause of many upgrade problems
<imbrandon> automatix and good in the same sentance ?
<ajmitch> as we've been saying for quite awhile
<Plug> imbrandon: thanks
<imbrandon> Plug, np
<DarkMageZ> mmm, someone really needs to put a stop to automatrix, i hear it's worse than what i do
<ajmitch> and we still want to lynch you :)
<imbrandon> i only redid the css and images, the actual theme is from G2 website ( but all the copyright gpl stuff is in there )
<imbrandon> Plug, ^^
<Plug> cool
<DarkMageZ> anyways, i'd like to bring up the topic of bug #57951
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
<ajmitch> DarkMageZ: you may bring it up, do you have a fix for it?
<DarkMageZ> ajmitch, well, i rebuilt the package with the stripping of the debugging stuff taken out. so it has a proper trace
* ajmitch wonders if there are ddebs of xchat so that it doesn't need rebuilt
<ajmitch> apport-retrace is a wonderful tool
<Nafallo> ajmitch: there are
<DarkMageZ> there are debs of xchat. but none that i could find without the debugging striped from them
<DarkMageZ> hence my rebuild
<Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: There are ddebs (debugging debs) which contain the symbols in an alternate repository.
<DarkMageZ> Fujitsu, ooo, url?
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure, it was posted to -devel-announce a month or so back.
<ajmitch> you shouldn't need to know the repository
<ajmitch> apport-retrace should do it for you
* ajmitch waits for it to grab ddebs
<DarkMageZ> oh that's cute. so those crashes without debugging symbols can be useful
<Fujitsu> Ooh, feisty-changes is working now.
<Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Yes, that's the point of them :)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: been working for a while :-)
<Nafallo> btw...
<Fujitsu> WHere a while <= 12 hours.
<Nafallo> Linux darkelf 2.6.19-1-generic #2 SMP Sat Oct 28 05:59:58 UTC 2006 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<Nafallo> :-)
<Fujitsu> Brave soul you are.
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> the fun haven't started yet though ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: yeah, I've got it on my laptop
<ajmitch> BenC said it's fairly stable, but missing a few things like LRM
<Nafallo> I've never used LRM anyway :-)
<ajmitch> 10:33 < BenC> if you don't need any special drivers (like ibm-acpi) or LRM (ipw3945, ati, nvidia, madwifi), then you can probably install it now
<bhale> i cant live w/o lrm
<bhale> intel wifi
<ajmitch> bhale: ipw3945?
<Nafallo> rt2500 :-)
<bhale> ajmitch: yes
<ajmitch> his next line, of course
<ajmitch> 10:34 < BenC> and even for ipw3945, it's as simple as copying existing /sbin/ipw3945d-*
<bhale> heh
<ajmitch> 2.6.19 still isn't for general consumption, but it should be there soon
<bhale> yeah.
<bhale> it usually takes him about 3 tries
<bhale> for him to get it right
<ajmitch> 'by UDS', he hopes
<Nafallo> baah. already works. I haven't seen any difference from 2.6.17 :-P
* ajmitch wonders why he has no mail to feisty-changes
<ajmitch> Nafallo: it shouldn't be very different
<Nafallo> naah. the changelog only synced lots of stuff :-)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, its sent a few early today
<imbrandon> 3 packages i think, kernel, basefiles and debootstrap
<ajmitch> I should check procmail rules then
<zul> whoop...time to update then ;)
<ajmitch> bah
<bhale> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/feisty-changes/2006-October/thread.html
<ajmitch> someone smack around people who abuse launchpad specs
<imbrandon> yup yup, memory was good in this case :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, heh , like ?
* imbrandon needs a laugh 
<ajmitch> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/beagle-integration
<ajmitch> "use tracker"
<zul> imbrandon: drinking still?
<imbrandon> zul, i've only had a few , otherwise i think i would be crying
<imbrandon> crown + coke is great for that :)
<imbrandon> i did go buy a bottle of crown this afternoon though
<ajmitch> From feisty-changes-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com Tue Oct 31 02:19:13 2006
<ajmitch>  Subject: Accepted base-files 3.1.16ubuntu1 (source)
<ajmitch>   Folder: launchpad                                                        6162
<ajmitch> no wonder
<imbrandon> ouch
<ajmitch> List-Id pattern changed from previous releases
<imbrandon> yea i havent setup a procmail rule yet, i guess i should do that now
<imbrandon> they just hit my inbox
<ajmitch> doing a regex match on ~160K message headers takes a little while
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> 840MB mbox file for ubuntu bug mail
<TheMuso> Ouch.
<ajmitch> it's probably a little large
<zul> brb
<imbrandon> :0:
<imbrandon> * ^(To|Cc).*feisty-changes
<imbrandon> $HOME/Maildir/.feisty-changes/
<imbrandon> that works for me , heh
<ajmitch> yeah, I match on X-BeenThere or List-Id
* TheMuso uses List-Id whereever possible.
<Fujitsu> List-Id is generally a better idea.
<LaserJock> I just do: * ^TO_feisty-changes@lists.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> although I haven't gotten any mail yet
<imbrandon> unless you sent it to /dev/null
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> darn, am I not subscribed?
<LaserJock> do we need to subscribe to it?
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> I thought it was automatic
<imbrandon> nope
<LaserJock> it was for breezy -> dapper I think
<LaserJock> but that was way back in the olden days
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU <-- comments, please
<ajmitch> it only has minor modifications from the policy for main at the moment
<LaserJock> what's with the \'s
<ajmitch> bad cut & paste, let me fix that
<ajmitch> hm, the indenting for the list may need fixed as well
<ajmitch> cleared it up
<ajmitch> comments please :)
<ajmitch> & then I'll post to the list about it for discussion
<LaserJock> ok, well my first reaction is that we should allow more updates
<LaserJock> i.e. broken packages
<LaserJock> I consider uninstallable or unusable as high-impact
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> I'm more willing to be lenient as well
<ajmitch> what about new upstream versions fixing problems/>
<imbrandon> hrm i would say UVF for -backports
<LaserJock> hmm, I think maybe the SRU review team might have to tackle that one
<imbrandon> and -updates for fixes
<LaserJock> sometimes a new upstream is a much easier and bug free way to fix the bug
<ajmitch> LaserJock: like dmraid
<Fujitsu> I'd be rather reluctant for that, ajmitch. Except for cases like that transcalc one where it currently crashes on startup, but the new version fixes that.
<LaserJock> rather then trying to backport all the fixes to the current version
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: it would be case-by-case, not a general policy of being OK
<LaserJock> I think for sure it should be avoided
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> right but if we allow that we're opening a pandoras box
<imbrandon> right
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ok, what do you want to do with dmraid?
<LaserJock> we already have a pandoras box
<ajmitch> as an example
<LaserJock> we're just trying to close the box a bit ;-)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, no i agree as a case by case
<ajmitch> fine
<ajmitch> add some of these comments to the bottom of the page, if you can
<LaserJock> but I think it can be in the policy that we seek to minimize the changes
<ajmitch>  we can take it to the -motu list
<ajmitch> I'd rather it not just be me dictating to the MOTUs what will happen :)
<LaserJock> oh why not
<LaserJock> you know what you're doing
<zul> its almost manager like
<LaserJock> hehe
<bddebian> ajmitch the Supreme MOTU Dictator!
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> bddebian: nah, I'm not even close to deity level
<bddebian> But you can be like Kim Jong Il and believe that you are God ;-P
<ajmitch> um ok
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> anyway, do we think the testing period is long enough? too short?
<imbrandon> other than the few things mentioned already looks good to me
<ajmitch> there'll need to be some feedback mechanism for testing
<imbrandon> 7 days? seems ok as long as people know
<ajmitch> rather than just announce to the list & get silence for 7 days
<LaserJock> I'm not convinced that a time based criteria is going to give much testing
<ajmitch> that's what I owrry about
<ajmitch> there may be packages that very few people would test
<imbrandon> well some volenteers have formed #kubuntu-testers , i'm sure we could caox them into full time testings possibly
<LaserJock> I can easily upload a science package that won't get tested at all for 7 days
<DarkMageZ> how about getting the people who filed the bug to test it?
<LaserJock> although with a stable release I can poke the "Education and Science" subforum to test -proposed
<ajmitch> although I'm the only member of the team at the moment, I don't expect that I have any right to be in it
<ajmitch> I just wanted it created
<LaserJock> what team?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Why not? You're pretty much a god anyway.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, why not, i would say you do
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: motu-sru
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> well we can fix that
<LaserJock> although I was kinda of hoping to redo some of the teams
<LaserJock> we have a ton of teams
<ajmitch> yeah, I'll pass on ownership to whoever will run the team
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we can argue about that later
<LaserJock> fine :-)
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I was just thinking it might be better to have a larger "motu-review" team
<LaserJock> that handles UVFs, SRUs, etc.
<LaserJock> that way it's maybe less confusing and possibly spreads the work out
<ajmitch> I didn't think it'd necessarily be great to have the same people doing everything
<LaserJock> yeah, that's a point for sure
<ajmitch> I considered just having the motu-uvf team, which already handled uvf exceptions & then general freeze exceptions
<imbrandon> i wouldent mind helping with SRU's once a policy was setup etc, but i'm no where near qualified to run / own it
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: It wouldn't be, no; but we need more-god-like people for SRU than UVF, and all the gods are already in UVF.
<ajmitch> it's possible to have a team that they're both part of
<LaserJock> anyway, that's not a big deal right now
<imbrandon> right
* ajmitch spots another useless bug with no info
<LaserJock> another thought is to have a "vote" rather then time system for testing
<LaserJock> the problem there is it becoming like REVU and having updates sitting in -proposed for a month
<ajmitch> I agree
<LaserJock> I think probably 7 days is best
<ajmitch> there may not be that many updates
<ajmitch> and it's a lot easier to process debdiffs than to do a comprehensive review of a new package
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> well you could do sort of a combination
<ajmitch> write this down please :)
<LaserJock> a package would be automatically ready for -updates if it's been in -proposed for 7 days
<imbrandon> speaking of comprehensive reviews, anyone up for looking at a proper gnash package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3367
<LaserJock> OR it's been tested and acked by X number of MOTUs
<imbrandon> like migration from unstable to testing
<LaserJock> so stuff that it urgent and something that lots of MOTUs would already be inclined to test then it can go through faster
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That does sound like a good idea.
<ajmitch> still has the problem of packages not being tested
<LaserJock> well, but if you have to have X votes then that at least gives you more testing then just uploading
<LaserJock> a vote system might give a little motivation for testing
<ajmitch> certainly, so you need a minimum number of testers in the 7 days
<LaserJock> right
<ajmitch> more testers means shorter time needed in testing
<LaserJock> more or less
<imbrandon> right by how does one sign on that they have tested it>
<imbrandon> s/by/but
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Comment on the bug, I presume.
<ajmitch> as Fujitsu said
<LaserJock> well, we could do a ubuntu-dev poll
<ajmitch> that would require a poll for every update
<LaserJock> but probably comment is better
<ajmitch> keep it informal
<LaserJock> sure
<imbrandon> a poll for every update would suck
<Fujitsu> Having polls integrated into bugs would be useful in this case.
<LaserJock> anyway, I *do* want to keep this a light and "red-tape" free as we can make it
<Fujitsu> There's been enough red tape already :P
<LaserJock> while still giving a little more assurance to our users that we test these things
<imbrandon> i'm thinking if its ACK'd by a MOTU/core-dev ( incase the diff is done by a non-MOTU ) and then "approved" for uploading to -proposed by the SRU team , it gets tested by atleaste 5 comments in 7 days , if 5 comments is not met in the 7 days it sits and waits will it gets 5 testers, if it gets 5 testers in the first 3 days it still has to sit for 4 more in -proposed as a minimum ( for more testing too )
<imbrandon> that would be real informal but make sure its all dont and checked
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: we drown in red tape..
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ok, write that as a comment at the end
<imbrandon> ok
<LaserJock> hmm, I would probably just leave it at 5 comments it goes to -updates otherwise 7 days
<imbrandon> basicly i'm saying it has to be in -proposed at leaste 7 days , but could be longer if not gotten 5 people to say "ok this works for me"
<imbrandon> rember we're talking a stable release not a UVFe
<LaserJock> yeah, and I'm saying 7 days maybe should be the longest
<ajmitch> but you still need a minimum number of testers
<LaserJock> ok, well how about this ...
<imbrandon> LaserJock, then what if i upload to -poposed and it sits there 7 days but no one tested it
<imbrandon> that wouldent be good
<LaserJock> then it goes to -updates :-)
<LaserJock> well considering that right now it goes to -updates without *any* testing
<LaserJock> we aren't making it less tested ;-)
<imbrandon> yea but i dont think 5 ( out of thousands or more of people ) to say "it works for me" is alot
<LaserJock> sure
<imbrandon> even for unused packages
<LaserJock> but it beats nothing
<imbrandon> s/unused/obscure
<imbrandon> anyone got the lock before i edit ?
<LaserJock> ok, let me reread what you proposed
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I say a minimum of 2 testers to get into updates
<ajmitch> 5 may be a few for some packages
<ajmitch> eg some zope stuff I want to fix - it requires that someone setup a zope instance, install products, etc
<ajmitch> not trivial
<LaserJock> ok, how about 10 gets you out in less then 7 days, 2 minimum period?
<LaserJock> if something's hot and everybody wants it then 10 MOTU can test it and get it asap
<Fujitsu> So, 10 ACKS gets you a get-out-out-of--proposed-free card, and anything less than 2 gets rejected?
<ajmitch> we can tweak the numbers
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yeah
<Fujitsu> That sounds like a good policy.
<ajmitch> the general policy should work, the numbers can be debated
<ajmitch> eg it may be 3 & 8
<LaserJock> yeah, and I don't think less then 2 should get rejected out of hand
<LaserJock> it just won't go to -updates
<LaserJock> it'll sit in -proposed until it gets 2
<Fujitsu> Argh, REVU!
<Fujitsu> This is turning into REVU, really...
<imbrandon> ok i added those comments to the bottom, tweak the numbers at will ajmitch / LaserJock / Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> They'll sit there for months...
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: so get reviewing :)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, not really , rember this is for existing packages that someone cares about becouse there are bugs filed
<imbrandon> and its stable released
<ajmitch> and a single MOTU should be able to veto a broken update
<Fujitsu> Shall I add the 10 ACKS gets you out of -proposed immediately note to the bottom of the page.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: of course.
* Fujitsu grabs the lock.
<ajmitch> so even if you have 5 ACKs, someone should be able to say it's crack & broken
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so yeah, I finally got off my behind & wrote up something for you :)
<imbrandon> ok LaserJock / ajmitch / Fujitsu , look over my crack now http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3367
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: thank you very much sir
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ok, so you'e saying 7 days minimum?
<LaserJock> and 5 votes minimum?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, that was my initial idea, i dont think 7 days is long to wait even for a "must have fix"
<LaserJock> for some reason you're "if it gets 5 testers in the first 3 days" part keeps confusing me
<imbrandon> personal
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ok here is a same workflow with that case ....
* LaserJock thinks imbrandon hasn't been hounded by forum users ;-)
<imbrandon> i post a debdiff to a bug
<imbrandon> 6 people post that "it works for me" in the first 24 hours
<imbrandon> and they tested the debdiff
<imbrandon> it still sits in -proposed for 7 days ( not only for other motu's to look at it to make sure its not crack to veto it , but also to make sure its tested by a large number of people becouse if it gets 6 in the first 24hours its likely to effect a large number of people )
<imbrandon> so a minimum of 5 testers and a munimum of 7 days
<imbrandon> both must be met
<LaserJock> well, I was thinking that only MOTU votes would count
<LaserJock> so I was thinking 5 MOTU all saying they tested and ack it
<LaserJock> probably gives a pretty reasonable testing
<LaserJock> but I see where you are coming from
<imbrandon> with how over taxed we are i dont think thats good, look at revu, i think a ACK by a motu or core dev is enough
<imbrandon> one to get it into testing and only one to take it out
<ajmitch> remember that the current suggestion has the debdiff passing before the reviewing team as well
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: As was mentioned earlier, SRU is a lot less taxing than REVU, because they're generally only small debdiffs.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yes but also effect a larger number of people too as its a stable release
<LaserJock> yeah, and all we're asking for is testing
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so you have to get 1 vote on the debdiff at least before even going to -proposed
<LaserJock> it also isn't Main
<imbrandon> yea not a "review" of it, thats done by the one MOTU and the SRU team, the testing is only "works for me" stuff
<LaserJock> 5 MOTUs saying "it works for me" isn't bad I don't think
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea the "ack" from a MOTU or core dev ( other than the debdiff maker )
<LaserJock> I guess there isn't a real reason for the test "acks" to be only from MOTUs
<LaserJock> I do think there should be an exception for 7 days for -updates regressions
<imbrandon> well i had it envisioned like this
<LaserJock> but I'm guessing that won't happen if they are properly tested
<imbrandon> the "ack" is really only for non-motus
<imbrandon> say i personaly make a debdiff , i can subscribe SRU team directly
<imbrandon> becouse i'ma  MOTU/core
<imbrandon> and the aSRU says "yes upload to proposed"
<LaserJock> ok, but how are non-MOTUs going to know to ack it?
<ajmitch> the overworked, stressed out SRU team that cries "oh no, not another one!" & sobs quietly ;)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you ask for testers on the bug report
<imbrandon> once its uploaded to proposed we send a call for testers to ML and #kubuntu-testers
<ajmitch> people who have run into the problem should be subscribed to the bug
<imbrandon> and the people subscruibed to the repoet\
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> this way it gets the testing , its a TON of red tape, and it wont sit in the que for ages but enoughto resonably say its been tested
<imbrandon> not a TON
<imbrandon> typo
<LaserJock> ok, make it so Mr. Sulu ;-)
<imbrandon> i'm afraid if we have 10 "it works for me" in 2 days then upload we'll have alot more broken ones
<imbrandon> thus the both 5 testeers and 7 days must be met
<LaserJock> well sure
<imbrandon> and in reality even for whiners 7 days isnt long ( and i'm sure the whiners will be the first to grab -proposed )
<LaserJock> but my point was that right now we have a 0 tester and 0 days  SRU policy
<LaserJock> so *anything* is going to work
<imbrandon> true
<LaserJock> but if it's just general acks on the bug report I think your idea is good
<lifeless> seems to me that you want to ensure that:
<LaserJock> and the main point is to have some kind of SRU policy asap
<Hobbsee> hey all
<lifeless>  - if there are no testers other than the requestor you still do upload it
<lifeless>  - it should get a review if theres any doubt about the fix at all
<lifeless>  - number of days isn't really relevant, its eyeballs and usage.
<LaserJock> lifeless: I think our issue is how to gauge eyeballs and usage
<LaserJock> I'm guessing the number of people using -proposed isn't great
<LaserJock> and many of our packages aren't used by a great deal of people anyway
<imbrandon> i think the initial ack or upload  by MOTU and the initial eyeballs by the SRU team then 5 general ack's we'll be golden
<LaserJock> without any minimum days?
<imbrandon> possibly, the more i think about it, what do you and ajmitch think ?
<imbrandon> acked/made by a MOTU , eyeballed by SRU for upload to -proposed , 5 general "works for me" to upload to -updates
<imbrandon> no days involved
<LaserJock> I think that would be a good start, if we find that it isn't catching enough problems we can always change it
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I like that.
<Fujitsu> And, as LaserJock says, we can change it if it's letting problems through.
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> ajmitch, care to chime in ?
<imbrandon> ( or anyone else )
<imbrandon> lemme update my comment on the bootom of that page
<Fujitsu> We need to somehow get a large subset of MOTU to give their +1 on this policy... But how? Mailing list?
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sorry, was distracted by other stuff :)
<LaserJock> we'll pass it by -motu when we are done here
<imbrandon> almost done
<imbrandon> one sec
<ajmitch> imbrandon: great
<ajmitch> so I didn't even have to do much, just throw it out there for comments :)
<imbrandon> ok LaserJock Fujitsu ajmitch check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU at the bottom for my last comments to make sure its what we talked about
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Looks good.
<lifeless> pity launchpad doesn't do voting yet ;)
<Fujitsu> lifeless: It does, but only on teams.
<lifeless> Fujitsu: do you mean for membership ?
<Fujitsu> lifeless: No, for team-related matters, only voteable by team members.
<lifeless> all the motus are in a team
<lifeless> so why cant we use that ?
<LaserJock> cause it's a pain
<LaserJock> LP polls aren't very user friendly
* Fujitsu hasn't seen one.
<LaserJock> I did one for MOTU
<Fujitsu> We can stuff around on staging, can't we?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ?
<imbrandon> we tried some for the IRC OP team , they arent easy to use
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: staging.launchpad.net. I believe it's meant for testing out various features, and it's OK to stuff around with... So I'm going to create a team+poll so I can see just how terrible it is :P
<lifeless> staging has a separate database
<Fujitsu> ... except that staging is down.
<lifeless> its doing a db copy from production right now
<lifeless> (about this time of day daily)
<Fujitsu> I knew it was on a separate DB, hence it being usable for stuffing around.
<Fujitsu> lifeless: That'd take a while to copy, wouldn't it?
<ajmitch> lifeless: as our quality czar, what comments do you have on the update procedure?
<lifeless> :)
<lifeless> let me read the current draft
<ajmitch> thanks :)
<lifeless> the why -
<Fujitsu> lifeless: The proposed process is imbrandon's final set of comments down the bottom, the process anywhere else on the page is outdated.
<ajmitch> not outdated, but it was the initial suggestion, based on the policy for main
<lifeless> seems to me we should say something like 'For packages in the Universe & Multiverse component, whilst they are not "supported", we should still endeavour to offer a smooth and reliable environment'
<lifeless> that is, popularity, and number of users are not really significant factors in assessing regression impact: we have millions of users.
<lifeless> a small % is still a lot
<imbrandon> true
* ajmitch just added that sentence earlier
<ajmitch> including spelling mistakes
* Fujitsu growls at Keybuk.
<Fujitsu> Having a go at universe upgradability..
<lifeless> the when - indirectly causing loss of data counts too IMO
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: why? universe is plenty broken
<ajmitch> lifeless: for example?
<lifeless> ajmitch: the current page says '... may directly cause...'
<Fujitsu> He said in his blog post that installing stuff from outside main is likely to cause upgrade issues.
<ajmitch> yes, copied from the policy for main
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: that can be quite true
<ajmitch> admit it, universe is a mess
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, and its very true, all of universe isnt well tested
<lifeless> ajmitch: hmm. well I think users will be unhappy to think that indirect data loss is considered 'ok'
<ajmitch> we can't test it nearly as well as main
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I wouldn't say `likely', though. I've upgraded a number of systems Hoary->Breezy->Dapper->Edgy, and none of them have had issues with universe stuff.
<ajmitch> lifeless: the problem being that indirect data loss could be vague
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you haven't installed the right set of broken packages then
<lifeless> so dont discriminate.
<lifeless> just say 'cause data loss'
<ajmitch> alright
<lifeless> its not a legal contract, we dont need to be painful with it
<ajmitch> the policy for main is likely to be more restrictive, so it makes sense
<lifeless> imbrandon: is the SRU team restricted? or any MOTU can join ? If any MOTU, why not say 'any motu can upload to -proposed'
<lifeless> ?
<imbrandon> SRU team is restricted , likely to be made up of a few core-dev's but hasent been made yet
<imbrandon> well its made but no members yet
<imbrandon> like the motu-uvf team
<lifeless> but its universe specific right? dont need to be a main uploader to join ?
<imbrandon> right
<lifeless> ok.
<lifeless> so I think we need to look at scalability and friction here
<lifeless> the more friction, the more work, and the more centralised, the less scalable
<imbrandon> yea
<lifeless> we've got 16K packages to deal with, so low friction and decentralised are quite important
<ajmitch> of course
<lifeless> what are the key objectives of the process ? The SRU policy does not articulate them.
<lifeless> I would expect them to be something like :
<lifeless>  - Fix regressions, security vulnerabilities and dataloss [aka severe]  bugs in stable ubuntu releases.
<lifeless>  - Do so without introducing new regressions or otherwise causing destabilisation in the stable release.
<ajmitch> all that should go in the "why" section
<lifeless> well its not 'why do updates', its 'why this process is written like it is'
<lifeless> but sure, it should go somewhere
<lifeless> so, I think that having a special team to do the -proposed upload is unneeded friction : how does it help with either of my two points ?
<imbrandon> no not to do the acutal uploads, any motu can "upload" the SRU just needs to say its "ok" like a UVF
<lifeless> OTOH I think having a time window for testing is a useful caution - it allows wider testing than just a 'X people have looked'
<lifeless> imbrandon: in your comments 'SRU Team "ok's" it for upload to -proposed and testing begins..'
<lifeless> I like the veto idea, I think that drives for consensus on the fix
<imbrandon> right they just "OK" it , the MOTU that ACK'd physicaly it uploads it
<imbrandon> like the way UVFe's are done
<lifeless> I dont get the need for the handshaking. If they are a MOTU, then they can judge whether its ready or not to go to -proposed, and its in -proposed that testing will take place, so why the need for the SRU to 'ok' it at all at this point ?
<imbrandon> basicly to make sure atleaste one other set of eye balls have sais "yes this qualifies for -proposed"
<lifeless> I suggest you reverse the test
<lifeless> a MOTU who is happy with it sends it to -proposed. Then if its really not ready reject it at that point: optimise for the common case, not the uncommon case.
<lifeless> The common case should be that MOTU's sending stuff to -proposed know whats going on.
<imbrandon> right ok i see
<ajmitch> it'd reduce the waiting on the the SRU team, at least
<Lathiat> im impressed, i dist-upgraded to edgy and it booted perfectly first time
<imbrandon> soo it would work like this ......
<imbrandon> ok
<Lathiat> including X w/ nvidia
<Fujitsu> Lathiat: Don't be impressed. That's normal.
<Lathiat> Fujitsu: upgrades and me tend not to get along ;p
<imbrandon> any MOTU uploads a debdiff to -proposed, and gets hte 5 testers, once it is tested and working in proposed the SRU gets subscribed and "ok"s it for -updates
<imbrandon> lifeless, ajmitch ^^
<imbrandon> that what you mean?>
<lifeless> I think the short circuit on 'X people are happy' is possibly problematic - the reason for a delay is to get testing on heterogenous configurations, but if 10 folk with the same setup all crowd in going "we're happy" you wont get that. So have a time delay and have it non short-circuitable except if the SRU team feel there are extenuating circumstances (i.e. remote root vulnerability)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: That sounds OK, it minimises the waiting on the SRU team, as ajmitch said.
<lifeless> imbrandon: yes, thats a smoother process.
<ajmitch> getting stuff into -proposed is good, and you'll still have the extra eyes of the SRU team for the final check
<imbrandon> right ok, and add back the time like lifeless said, that makes sense
<imbrandon> unless its for -security and pitti will speed that up
<ajmitch> yes, -security is special
<Fujitsu> SRU doesn't apply to -security at all, it's a completely different process.
<ajmitch> though I'm not sure what currently happens for security updates to packages in -updates
<imbrandon> right
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: They go in -security, not -updates...
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes, but if the -updates version is higher?
<imbrandon> same as normal -security i would imagine
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: A good question...
<ajmitch> we won't worry about that right now
<imbrandon> it wouldent happen as -updates is on by default install
<imbrandon> so security would get applied to the -updates version
<imbrandon> in -security
<imbrandon> ( plus most security updates are to main )
<ajmitch> lifeless: thanks for the feedback
<lifeless> now, what I also suggest is a couple of extra steps
<lifeless> right now there is no feedback loop
<lifeless> I think the SRU team should be subscribed at -proposed stage, and stay subscribed *to the package* for 2 weeks after the update.
<ajmitch> set as bug contact?
<lifeless> yup
<lifeless> or something similar
<Fujitsu> The main policy is that the author of the debdiff is bug contact for a few weeks afterwards.
<lifeless> if there are regressions let through by this, then we cna expect to see them in the first week or two of the update being released
<imbrandon> right , i'm thinking the author ( eg the uploading MOTU )
<lifeless> AIUI the author is just a regular MOTU, may not be around or available - and if it needs reverting, we want to act fast. Having a team react is faster than an individual - if they are working well.
<lifeless> OTOH individual responsbility is easier to point at ;)
<ajmitch> we regularly have MOTUs that drop off the face of the planet
<imbrandon> true
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what?!?
<imbrandon> but if they are there for the update another 7 or 14 days
<LaserJock> :-)
<imbrandon> its not like they are comming from hibernation to watch it
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it's easy for someone to be away for a few days, just at the wrong time
<imbrandon> true
<ajmitch> so having the team still be subscribed can be good
<ajmitch> whether the team wasnt to receive the mail for all the bugs for that package is another matter :)
<lifeless> ideally we could just say 'this package has been put into a stable upload, for the next two weeks they get flagged with all bugs', *without* changing the bug contact.
<ajmitch> there's a lot of things we could ideally do :)
<imbrandon> :)
<DarkMageZ> ajmitch, how condemned is easyubuntu?
<lifeless> anyhow, the basic point is that : random MOTUS will initiate the process, and the SRU teams role is to say 'ok' after the time period, and *also* to initiate a revert if needed : which means they must be in contact for some small period after the upload.
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> sounds sane
<imbrandon> ok updating the comments on the bottom once more ......
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i'm going to wipe both mine and yours and combine all this
<imbrandon> ok?
<lifeless> from a QC perspective, what we need to aim for in any process is some form of feedback cycle, so that you know its working as desired. Thats all that was missing before :)
<imbrandon> ok LaserJock Fujitsu ajmitch lifeless ( last big ping of the night ) i updated the comments once again at the bottom to reflect
<imbrandon> comments to make sure its what we talked about welcome
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> sorry, I was caught up with work stuff
<imbrandon> np
<imbrandon> i only updated the comments if you wanna touch the upper part
<ajmitch> ok
<LaserJock> sounds good guys
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yes, it's OK to wipe it (was eating lunch)
<imbrandon> heh i was hoping, i did it anyhow , figured you could get the revisions if needed :)
<imbrandon> the comments should now reflect what we all kinda fleshed out
<Fujitsu> Yup, looks good.
<imbrandon> ok Fujitsu and other super MOTU's http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3367
<imbrandon> hahaha
* imbrandon feels like a newb
<TheMuso> What wiki page is it? I've been in and out, and haven't really been able to follow.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<Fujitsu> s/other //
<imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<TheMuso> ajThanks.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Thanks.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: well, that's me out of reviewing
<imbrandon> ajmitch, and you too
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: SRU & MOTU are subscribed to the package, not just the bug
<imbrandon> err yea, my mistake
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> funny
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication/Client/Interface
<imbrandon> HAHAHA
<Fujitsu> Hahha.
<ajmitch> yeah, we're working on specs
<LaserJock> darn, I messed up an experiment
<LaserJock> I hate that when that happens
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I should have written an interface for the control box for the photelastic modulator
<LaserJock> oh well
* imbrandon is done wiki'ing for tonight
<lifeless> imbrandon: looks good to me
* Nafallo ska sova, gnatt
<Nafallo> gnight
<imbrandon> huh ?
<imbrandon> gnight
<LaserJock> ok, shall we send an email to -motu now?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Looks like it.
* LaserJock looks around for a volunteer
<Fujitsu> I can do it in a few minutes, if you wish
<LaserJock> excellent
* ajmitch is obsolete
<LaserJock> ajmitch: wasn't that the idea? ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yeah, I think I'll retire now :)
<psusi> where did the wiki page listing packages that FTBS go?  I search for ftbs on the wiki and it comes back with 0 matches... is the search broken?
<psusi> I know there was a page at some point listing all those packages in universe that ftbs on build daemons
<imbrandon> no, as far as i know thats only tracked on LP , it would be rather redundant on the wiki i would think
<LaserJock> it used to be on the wiki
<psusi> I swear it was on the wiki before lp, but heck if that's where it is now, got the url handy?
<LaserJock> we don't have a good FTBFS list currently I don't think
<psusi> oh god, you are kidding?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: well, I've got one, lucas built one
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> how current are they?
<ajmitch> psusi: why do you say that?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: a week or so before release
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: A couple of weeks.
<LaserJock> k
<ajmitch> psusi: the FTBFS list can only be generated by a full archive rebuild
<LaserJock> I was kinda thinking somebody did one a few weeks ago
<ajmitch> yes, lucas did
<LaserJock> oh yeah, lucas and his 40 node cluster
<LaserJock> shesh
<ajmitch> and I've got all the mail from fabbione's sparc rebuild
<psusi> I'm updating the old bug on how the defrag package FTBS on amd64 due to a conflict between the e2fsprogs package and the kernel headers... and it looks like we have a -8 source in edgy, but packages.ubuntu.com still only shows the -7 i386 binary
<ajmitch> his little 32-thread sun box
<psusi> so I'm wondering if it FTBS now even on i386
<ajmitch> psusi: rebuild it & test
<LaserJock> well, you can check on a per-package basis on LP
<psusi> ajmitch, fails to build for me on amd64
<imbrandon> p.u.o is out of date often, you can check a per package on LP
<psusi> that is after I rebuilt my pbuilder environment for a clean edgy so it didn't contain my patched e2fsprogs
<psusi> with my old patched e2fsprogs package it compiled
<psusi> but those patches weren't accepted back when I filed them
<psusi> LaserJock, how?
<psusi> ahh, yep... according to lp the defrag package has no binaries in edgy
<psusi> so packages must still be serving up the last good i386 binary from dapper
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/defrag/0.73pjm1-8
<LaserJock> and it says all archs failed to build
<psusi> ahh, cool, even can see the log
<psusi> well there you go... FTBS on all arches ;)
<psusi> strange too... looks like it was auto synced to debian
<psusi> wonder if it was ftbs for them too?
<LaserJock> good night people
<minghua_> night LaserJock
<LaserJock> heh
* minghua_ wonders what sabdfl will think of being called "spiritual leader in the open source world"
<ajmitch> how disturbing
* ajmitch finds it hard to do any sabdfl hero-worship :)
<minghua_> ajmitch: after the beryl-by-default proposal?  ;-)
* Lathiat grins at minghua_ 
<ajmitch> nah, before that
<ajmitch> he needs people around who are willing to disagree with him :)
<minghua_> I am not kidding though, look at the poster at the bottom of http://www.ubuntu.com.cn/releaseparty
<minghua_> ajmitch: very true
<ajmitch> I'd hate to work somewhere where everyone was a 'yes-man'
<ajmitch> such a way to stifle ideas
<minghua_> well, fortunately (or not) sabdfl doesn't show any sign of running out of crazy ideas yet
<ajmitch> if he ever does, I'm sure he could refill his supply of crack on the forums
<joejaxx> `/win 32
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> irssi :\
<joejaxx> bbl
<Lathiat> minghua_: hah
<Lathiat> that poster..
<Toadstool> Fujitsu, ajmitch, imbrandon: good job on MOTU SRU!
<ajmitch> thanks, add your comments on the mailing list
<Toadstool> ajmitch: if I had any comments I would but I've been working from 8:30 am to 10 pm and I think I'll have to buy a new brain tomorrow morning :/
<ajmitch> hehe ok
<Chandu> hi
<Chandu> good morning
<Toadstool> good night :)
<Chandu> Ehy .. Iam confused on How ubuntu will be building packages for its development release (for example fesity)
<Chandu> can anyone tell me how ubuntu starts building packages for its development release
<LaserJock> Chandu: what is confusing you?
<Chandu> LaserJock, hey .. If you start building pacakges for fiesty .. you wont be ahveing archvie of fiesty ..How you will building binaries for that
<Chandu> LaserJock, I hope all packages will be built over the development release itself
<Chandu> LaserJock, not on the current release for next release
<LaserJock> well, we build them in pbuilder
<LaserJock> but the build machines use something similar I think
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok ..that I know .. But pubilder will work in chroot ..right
<Chandu> LaserJock,in which chroot will it work ..in feisty
<LaserJock> feisty
<Chandu> LaserJock, If fiesty ..Before starting building U will have fiesty debootstrap script
<LaserJock> sure
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Didn't you go to bed a while ago?
<LaserJock> not to bed
<LaserJock> I just drove home
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> You said good night.
<LaserJock> was at the lab until 9:00 pm
<Chandu> LaserJock, Then what about the packages for isntalling the base system and other build-dependent packages ..
<Fujitsu> Woah.
<LaserJock> well, I thought maybe it was goodnight
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: that's pretty usual for me
<LaserJock> I have only 1 or 2 nights that I'm home before 9:00 pm
<Chandu> LaserJock, Fro mwhich archive will it be installing ..What will be the mirror path set in pbuilder for fiesty
<LaserJock> Chandu: the fiesty repos are already set up
<LaserJock> the toolchain is getting synced and stabalized
<ajmitch> mmm, curry
<Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
<ajmitch> dholbach!
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> heya Fujitsu, hey ajmitch
<Chandu> LaserJock, No .. I want to know how you have dont that ..
<Chandu> LaserJock, For setting Repo you need to rebuild debian source right ...
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<LaserJock> Chandu: right
<LaserJock> so they build the necessary packages
<Chandu> LaserJock, Then for building that debian source ..as you told it will be built using pbuilder . in feisty environment
<LaserJock> right, so the first thing they have to do is build the feisty environment
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok ..How do they do that
<ajmitch> in the beginning, feisty is identical to edgy
<Chandu> ajmitch, ok
<ajmitch> so in the initial setup, you start with debian packages
<Chandu> ajmitch, debian packages ..is ti only source or also binary
<LaserJock> well, you start with source and build binary
<ajmitch> unless you're a masochist & want to do a full bootstrap on a new arch, you use binaries
<Chandu> ajmitch, ok .then for setting up fesity environment ..we will use same edgy debootstrap script .. for pbuilder /..right
<ajmitch> some people I know are like that though :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: like Hurd people
<ajmitch> I was thinking of some canonical people, to be honest
<dholbach> hi LaserJock
<ajmitch> some of whom have worked with the hurd in the past :)
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
<ajmitch> Chandu: the initial feisty debootstrap just uses binaries imported from edgy
<Chandu> ajmitch, Ok.... So feisty base system isntalled in chroot is nothing but the edgy base system instaleld using edgy binaries ..right
<ajmitch> currently - that will change
<ajmitch> that's what is being changed at the moment
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<Chandu> ajmitch, then after base for building all other packages over that chroot env ..from which repo the build-dependent packages will be taken
<ajmitch> always feisty
<ajmitch> but feisty is made up of binaries from edgy + anything built since then
<ajmitch> the wonders of the pool structure
<Chandu> ajmitch, oh!.. from the time you start building binraries for feisty ..the feisty archive will be set in such a way that ..it points to edgy repo + the new repo containg the packages newly built for feisty
<LaserJock> no, it will point to feisty
<LaserJock> but the feisty repo will initially be the same as the edgy repo
<Chandu> LaserJock, here I am really confused ..I will jsut take an example
<Chandu> LaserJock, I hae setup an evn for fesity using edgy debootstrap script
<Chandu> LaserJock, means a base system of edgy will be isntalled in chroot
<Chandu> LaserJock, This is feisty environtment
<Chandu> LaserJock, So..The MIRROR path in pbuilder ..i.e /etc/pbuilderrc file will be pointing to edgy repo
<Chandu> LaserJock, Once I start buiding packages for festi from debian source ..
<Chandu> LaserJock, example let me take package acl
<Chandu> LaserJock, I want to build acl now for feisty ..It needs some build dependent pacakges ..From which repo will these build-dependent packages will be isntaleld
<Chandu> LaserJock, Can you clarify me this thing
<LaserJock> well, when feisty is ready you will use feisty
<LaserJock> look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.0
<LaserJock> look at the feisty version
<Chandu> LaserJock, When fesity is ready measn what ..after full repo for fesity is ready ... Even fora making festty ready ..we need to compile all debian source na ..for that it needs build-dependent packages right ..from which repo this build-dependent packages will be
<LaserJock> ok
<Mez> has pbuilder been updated with feisty yet ?
<LaserJock> right now feisty is basically just the same as edgy
<LaserJock> the .deb files are all in a pool
<LaserJock> and feisty points to the same .debs as edgy (I think that's how it works)
<Mez> LaserJock, pretty much
<LaserJock> but the core developers are uploading new version of the core packages
<Mez> unless you want to get technical
<LaserJock> once they have that working ok, then feisty will be ready for uploading in general (in say 1-2 weeks)
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok ..whether unti building of the las package will pbuilder will be pointing ..(taking binaries ) from the edgy repo itself ..
<Chandu> LaserJock, or as and when a new apckage is built for fesity .. pbuilder will be pointing to two repos .. one is edgy and the otehr is a newly setting up repo for feisty..
<ajmitch> pbuilder itself never points to edgy for feisty - the edgy packages are imported into feisty on the server
<Chandu> ajmitch, imported means what ... whole edgy repo (source+bianries) will be moved into feisty archive
<ajmitch> yes
<Mez> ajmitch - has pbuilder been updated for feisty, or do we have to go the whole - edgy -> feisty upgrade to get a feisty pbuild ?
<ajmitch> Mez: debootstrap & base-files are updated
<Mez> ajmitch, sweet ;)
<ajmitch> edgy's pbuilder knows nothing of feisty, I suspect
<ajmitch> an 'upgrade' is trivial though
<Chandu> ajmitch, So if once one package is built ..where do they get uploaded ..is it to the same archive where edgy packges are imported to feisty
<ajmitch> Chandu: yes, uploaded to feisty
<Mez> ajmitch, it may be trivial but /me has limited b/w
<ajmitch> Mez: by trivial, I mean you change sources.list
<ajmitch> and then you've got a feisty pbuilder chroot
<ajmitch> sure, you'll get a couple of updated packages
<Chandu> ajmitch, So when rebuilding if the new package built for feisty 's version is same as the edgy version ..Then what the uploda will do ..
<ajmitch> Chandu: never do that
<ajmitch> any rebuild or source change *must* have a higher version within the same distro
<Chandu> ajmitch, No ..Suppose is there is no change in debian version used for edgy and now using for fesity ..what will you do to upload ..Will you keep the same edgy version as it is ..without rebuilding the new pacakge for feisty ..
<ajmitch> if it doesn't need rebuilt, there will be no change
<ajmitch> however anything imported from debian gets imported as source only
<ajmitch> and therefore gets rebuilt automatically with the same version number
<Chandu> ajmitch, hey otehr thing ..you was telling to Mez , that for creating pbuilder for feisty .. debootstrap and base-files of edgy will be updated .. if you are modifying thsoe two pacakges you will be using the same those two packages for creating pbuilder environment for feisty right
<ajmitch> they were updated in feisty, to allow for chroot creation of feisty
<Chandu> ajmitch, ok ..
<ajmitch> you can install the feisty debootstrap on edgy in order to setup a feisty pbuilder
<Chandu> ajmitch, ok
<Chandu> ajmitch, Once one debian source is getting imported it will automatically built with the same version of debian you told .. right
<ajmitch> this is why the first step is setting up the toolchain
<Chandu> ajmitch, Suppose if some change neeed you feel .. some iamges you need to replace ..some name you need to change .in that case what you will be doing ..
<ajmitch> so that packages are built with the appropriate compiler, glibc, etc
<ajmitch> Chandu: you change the package, change the version, upload it, it gets built on the distro you are working on
<Chandu> ajmitch, No , you told once its gets imported it will be built automatically
<Chandu> ajmitch, So before building we need to identyfy that package , modify change version and then rebuilt .. then upload right
<ajmitch> yes, and you asked what happens if you need to change it - which is different
<ajmitch> it'll initially get imported & biult, and then you change it & upload a modified version
<Chandu> ajmitch, ok , ok ..So all the debian source will be automatically get imported from the deiban sid pool and reubilt in feisty environtment .. and get uploaded to festy archive
<Chandu> ajmitch, If any package chagne is needed we need to modify that ..change version and then rebuild then upload ..right
<ajmitch> in the case of ubuntu, everything that hasn't been modified in edgy will get imported
<ajmitch> since we don't automatically sync anything with ubuntu in the version number
<Chandu> ajmitch, means I will jsut take an eg
<ajmitch> that requires manual merging work, to merge the changes done in Ubuntu to what has been done in Debian
* ajmitch has to step out for a minute
<Chandu> ajmitch, suppose in edgy gdm is modified and is with ubuntu version
* Mez is going t spen dht next week downloading fecking emails
<Chandu> ajmitch, Now you are importing gdm from debian sid .. It gets auto built for fesity with debian version .. Once it reubilt it goes for upload ..will it get upload
<LaserJock> no, it's slightly different
<Chandu> LaserJock, how if differs
<LaserJock> MoM will attempt to merge the packages and spit out a report
<LaserJock> *every* package that had an ubuntu version has to be manually checked
<Chandu> LaserJock, means MOM will compare the nelwy build gdm package with debian version with the gdm pacakge of edgy with ubuntu version .. If it finds that ubutnu version of gdm is availabe in archive currently then it wont upload the new gdm of debian version and it will generate a report telling that this package needs manual modification ..right
<LaserJock> MoM will never upload anything
<LaserJock> it only gives reports
<LaserJock> it compares the previous Ubuntu version to the Debian version it was based on
<LaserJock> and that Debian version to the current one in Sid
<Chandu> LaserJock, means what It will give the report telling that this package can be synced or or needs modifcation
<LaserJock> not quite
<LaserJock> it gives you a guess
<LaserJock> but it is still up to the developers to check each package
<LaserJock> and see if it can be synced ore merged
<LaserJock> and if it needs to be merged they do the merging
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok
<LaserJock> you can do the whole thing without MoM
<LaserJock> but MoM is made to help us out
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok... hey once the imported debian package is built ..wont it be automatically uploaded .. .So before uploading .. we have to check the debdiff of exsiting ubuntu versio and the debian version it si based on ..and then debdiff of old debian and the new debian package ...then we have to decide whether it whould be synced or merged
<Chandu> LaserJock, Once we feel that it can be synced ..it should be uploaded with the same debian version ..else should be modifed and then merged
<LaserJock> basically yeah
<LaserJock> we (as in the MOTU) don't have to worry about the automatically imported packages or actually uploading syncs
<LaserJock> those are handled by the Ubuntu archive admins
<LaserJock> we just tell them what packages can be synced
<LaserJock> but basically that is the flow of things
<Chandu> LaserJock, So you just built the debian source ..do all these diff execrsise and tell them ..that this can be synced ..right
<LaserJock> yep
<Chandu> LaserJock, So ..which one they will sync ..which you have built from debian source
<LaserJock> they will take the source package directly from Debian sid
<LaserJock> and build it in the Ubuntu environment
<Chandu> LaserJock, Oh...again they will take source from the debian sid ..and they will rebuild again that and sync to feisty archvie
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> we just do the work to verify that it can indeed be synced
<Chandu> LaserJock, Hey you have also built the package in the ubuntu environment na ,,, then whats the difference
<Chandu> LaserJock, If they are also building the same package again ..is it not time consuming ..
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> the same thing would have to happen if I were to upload the package
<LaserJock> but we just cut out the need for us to upload
<LaserJock> and possibly introducing some change
<Chandu> LaserJock, how come .. Once you are building packages from debian source ...U will be having all the source ..chagnes file and debs ...right
<Chandu> LaserJock, then why do the yneed to build it again ..
<LaserJock> yes, but we don't upload .debs
<LaserJock> we only upload source packages
<Chandu> LaserJock, then will you be uploading the source
<LaserJock> right
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok
<LaserJock> so there's not much of a difference between me uploading the source
<LaserJock> or the archive admins uploading the source
<LaserJock> except they have tools to make sure that it is exactly a sync
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok
<Chandu> LaserJock, thank you very much .. LaserJock ..Now I got some idea .. Its cleared something
<LaserJock> glad we could help
<Chandu> LaserJock, but anyhow ..to check whethe it is for sync or merge ..you will be taking debin sid source and rebuilting that right
<LaserJock> well, you usually start with the debian sid source
<Chandu> LaserJock, then only you will tell admin regarding the status of the package ..
<LaserJock> and then look at why the ubuntu version was there
<LaserJock> and if Debian has incorporated those changes or we no longer need them then we tell the archive admins to sync
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok ...
<LaserJock> but if they are still needed we need to incorporate those changes into the new package
<Chandu> LaserJock, hey ..the packges which you are telling admin people to sync or merge will ne finally getting uploaded to the same repo to where you have imported all edgy packages in the starting of the build ..right
<LaserJock> to fiesty
<dholbach> please all follow up on the SRU mails on ubuntu-motu@
<StevenK> LaserJock: fEisty
<Chandu> LaserJock, ya fesity ..but feisty .. initially will be the edgy repo itself ..right
<Chandu> LaserJock, means ..edgy imported to fesity
<superm1> dholbach, I was trying to file a bug for a sru, and I added mdz to it per the wiki page explaining SRU.  I never really heard back from him though
<superm1> should I be adding ubuntu-motu instead?
<dholbach> superm1: we're figuring out the process right now
<LaserJock> Chandu: yes it copy of edgy
<Chandu> LaserJock, ok ..thank you
<dholbach> superm1: the team will be operational from saturday on
<superm1> the SRU team u mean?
<lifeless> ajmitch: is there a xen howto for edgy ?
<dholbach> superm1: motu-sru
<ajmitch> lifeless: XenOnEdgy wiki page
<dholbach> lifeless: XenOnEdgy
<superm1> Ah wonderful.
<lifeless> the package should so totally link to that in their description
<LaserJock> dholbach: hehe, I nominate dholbach ;-)
<dholbach> LaserJock: mailing list! but thanks ;-)
* dholbach hugs LaserJock
* LaserJock hugs dholbach 
<ajmitch> ooh, motu-sru nominations
<lifeless> does xen play well with lvm2 ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> you can use lvm snapshots if you want
<lifeless> sorry to use you as quick support ;). Bootstrapping my xen knowledge asap
<ajmitch> or I've used it with sid on lvm
<ajmitch> no problem :)
<lifeless> module /boot/xen0-linux-2.6.17-6-generic-xen0 root=/dev/lvm2/foo/root ro <- that should be ok ?
<lifeless> does it bring up the first module line like a kernel line ?
<ajmitch> yes, it's just a regular kernel
<ajmitch> my laptop has root on lvm
<ajmitch> domU gets setup slightly differently, but works with lvm just fine
<lifeless> that page is a little confusing
<lifeless> it says 'typical usage'
<lifeless> but nowhere defines what that means.
<lifeless> for instance, 'typical' might be:
<ajmitch> clarify it if you want
<lifeless>  - nothing at all in the Dom0 except the ability to run DomU's
<LaserJock> well, it's typical so it needs no definition  ;-)
<LaserJock> it's intuitively obvious :-)
<LaserJock> dholbach: heh, can I nominate more then one?
<dholbach> LaserJock: sure
<lifeless> or it could be
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we breathlessly await your nominations
<lifeless>  - the Dom0 looks and feels like your regular ubuntu install, and has all your normal services
<lifeless> ajmitch: ^ which is 'typical'
<lifeless> I can only clarify it if I know what 'it' is :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> what seems most common is the latter setup
<lifeless> ok, so lets say that
<lifeless> for clarity - what does
<lifeless> If you want to use the same initramfs in a domU with a virtual block device served by the dom0 (the usual configuration) you should also arrange for the initramfs to contain and load xenblk.
<lifeless> really do ?
<ajmitch> interesting, is that still on the page?
<lifeless> tell you what. Can you please sanity check the page. -then- I'll hose my system with it.
<ajmitch> that should probably be cleaned up, xenblk should be built into the 2.6.17 kernel
<ajmitch> you're doing this on x86 aren't you (iirc I asked you earlier today)
<lifeless> yes, a k7 machine
<ajmitch> setting up the domU can be done much easier than listed there
<ajmitch> using xen-tools
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<ajmitch> apart from the piece about xenblk, the rest of the dom0 setup looks sane
<LaserJock> darn it, I simply can't write an email without a typo :(
<ajmitch> eg my grub setting:
<ajmitch> kernel /xen-3.0-i386.gz
<ajmitch> module /xen0-linux-2.6.17-1-generic root=/dev/mapper/acer--vg-ubuntu ro
<ajmitch> module /initrd.img-2.6.17-1-generic-xen
<ajmitch> well, that needs updated for the latest kernel :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you had to be difficult, didn't you?
<LaserJock> of course
<ajmitch> we only need ~4 or so
<LaserJock> I give out ponies and nominations
<LaserJock> it's what I do ;-)
* ajmitch puts the mail in the circular filing cabinet
<LaserJock> doh
<LaserJock> we only have 2 things currently that need approval right? freeze exceptions and SRUs
<ajmitch> yes
<lifeless> ajmitch: so, can you update the page to /be/ sane rather than 'be sane if you ignore X' ?
<lifeless> ajmitch: that would be most comforting to me
<LaserJock> so maybe we can keep those 2 teams orthogonal
<ajmitch> lifeless: I was checking things in the kernel config to be sure
<LaserJock> to spread the work
<ajmitch> LaserJock: they should happen at different times in the release
<LaserJock> not necessarily
<LaserJock> but kinda
<LaserJock> SRUs can be any time
<lifeless> ajmitch: perhaps the grub setup should say 'copy your current kernel line and adjust in the following way'
<lifeless> ajmitch: i.e. can usplash work for instance ?
<LaserJock> although I would tend to think they would be mostly loaded toward the beginning of the release cycle
<ajmitch> LaserJock: and other freeze exceptions towards the end
<LaserJock> ajmitch: but that's somewhat why I suggested just having one largish sized team that handled all approval requests
<LaserJock> having a pool of 5-10 core MOTUs than can handle approvals as they come up
<LaserJock> but maybe smaller task oriented teams is better
<ajmitch> lifeless: dom0 setup should be ok now
<dholbach> is MOTU/Packages/Merging our official document?
<ajmitch> probably one of many :)
<ajmitch> it'll need updated
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, lifeless: that shiny xenonedgy stuff should be on help.ubuntu.com/community
<LaserJock> dholbach: I don't think the wiki was use a whole lot for edgy because of merges.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> one of these days I really am going to clean up wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/*
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> I'm out for a walk brb
<ajmitch> when we get a round tuit
<Plug> My nana has one of them
<LaserJock> jeeze that's a massive and prehaps less then extremely helpful page
<LaserJock> and half of it is my own stuff :/
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> and yeah, we have 113 wiki pages in CategoryMotu
<LaserJock> that's way too much "stuff"
<ajmitch> asking someone to read up on that is a nightmare
<LaserJock> and much of the time the wiki pages have no table of contents or are poorly structured
<LaserJock> it's no fun to take the time to do it right when you've got so much "real" work to do
<lifeless> ajmitch: the grub paths are regular fs-relative ones right ?
<lifeless> ajmitch: i.e. boot is a separate partition for me, so I'm removing /boot from the sample paths
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> as my menu.lst has it
<lifeless> ajmitch: also, network-dummy is the default for xend-config
<ajmitch> yes
<lifeless> should we note that the default is broken ?
<ajmitch> it already suggests to change it
<lifeless> or that the user should comment out the current setting, not just add one
<lifeless> brb, rebooting into this
* Mez is tempted to try out beryl and stuff
<LaserJock> I did it the other day
<lifeless> ajmitch: thanks
<lifeless> other than lvm getting shitty about drive translation, its all good
<ajmitch> good
<lifeless> now you said something about n easier U setup ?
<ajmitch> get xen-tools
<ajmitch> config file is /etc/xen-tools/xen-tools.conf
<ajmitch> then you can setup & start a domU with a single command, that sets up the disk image, does debootstrap, etc
<siretart> Mez: if you disable the wobbly windows plugin, it is close to usable
<ajmitch> & animations
<lifeless> someone did pbuilder integration with xen didn't they ?
<mez_> LaserJock, how did it go?
<ajmitch> it was talked about, not sure if it was done or not
<LaserJock> Mez: well, it worked fine, just not exactly what I'd call useful
<lifeless> lol, the list of dists there ignored edgy
<LaserJock> it's shiny and it worked fine
<lifeless> ironic
<Mez> LaserJock, it's bling - is it meant to be useful ?
<LaserJock> no
<shawarma> Well, some of it is quite useful.
<ajmitch> lifeless: not that it matters, debootstrap supports edgy
<shawarma> The Expose-ish thing is quite useful.
<ajmitch> and feisty if you grab debootstrap from there
<lifeless> yah
<lifeless> still, I find it humourous
<ajmitch> going to come to the xen bof at uds next week then? :)
<lifeless> maybe
<lifeless> :)
<ajmitch> we'll talk about nice gui tools that RH have developed for this
<lifeless> ajmitch: so the xen-tools config - the kerne and initrd in there should be the same as for the dom0 ?
<ajmitch> yeah
<LaserJock> hi elkbuntu
<LaserJock> oh darn, I didn't see her leave
<ajmitch> I'm sure she's still here
<elkbuntu> stupid fuse tripped
<LaserJock> ah, I was going to tease elkbuntu about her birthday
<elkbuntu> :-/
<ajmitch> you still can!
<LaserJock> as she appears to be slightly older then me :/
<secretlondon> well she's younger than me
<ajmitch> LaserJock: when's your birthday?
<LaserJock> Nov. 18th
<ajmitch> ah
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, im sure you've incited this.. you were teasing me in -nz too :(
<LaserJock> so close
* ajmitch feels young
* secretlondon feels old.
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: my humblest apologies
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, no problem dude ;)
<LaserJock> yeah, well I'm the senior grad student in  my lab and the youngest :/
<LaserJock> I was even younger then our undergrad :(
<LaserJock> I need to go find jpatrick so I can feel old again :p
<LaserJock> my wife's even older then me
<LaserJock> ah well
* secretlondon hads LaserJock a nappy/daiper
<ajmitch> hah
<LaserJock> anyway, happy birthday elkbuntu
<ajmitch> secretlondon: don't worry, we have far younger here
<LaserJock> secretlondon: thanks, I needed that
<LaserJock> yeah, I used to feel old around all these high school kids :-)
<secretlondon> ajmitch: I'm sure - i've just seen some of my local LUG go off to school (<16)
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> we have at least one MOTU that's < 16
<ajmitch> and several that act younger
<LaserJock> yeah, that's for sure
<LaserJock> :-)
<secretlondon> generally the acting young ones are considerbaly older
<shawarma> LaserJock: Huh? Who's that young?
<secretlondon> some of wikipedias most mature are <16
<LaserJock> Hobbsee must be like 15 or something
* LaserJock runs
<LaserJock> hopefully I can avoid the stick
<shawarma> *g*
* Hobbsee attacks LaserJock with her LONG POINTY STICK OF DOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!! (tm)
* secretlondon readies her cattle prod.
<Hobbsee> ...i so need an autocomplete for that...
* Hobbsee high fives secretlondon 
* secretlondon hands Hobbsee a sharpener for her stick.
<Hobbsee> :)
<LaserJock> hmm, somebody really does need to take that away from her
<Hobbsee> hah, dream on
<LaserJock> I think ajmitch and I could tag team it
<LaserJock> and duct tape Hobbsee
<LaserJock> and steal her stick
<Hobbsee> hah
* Hobbsee will set LaserJock on fire, that's easy fixed.
<LaserJock> but at this point I feel like we would have to first put a spec on LP
<LaserJock> and have a release manager approve it
<Hobbsee> it would be against the COC, i'm sure
<LaserJock> and then discuss the implementation polocy
<LaserJock> and toss it around the appropriate mailing list
<secretlondon> you could always make a wishlist bug and allocate to the motu
<Hobbsee> and i could decline it :P
<LaserJock> and form a hobbsee-stick-stealing LP team
<Hobbsee> no one steals my stick!
<secretlondon> LaserJock: you could try getting a bigger stick
<LaserJock> and have a bzr branch for our plans just so it's an open source project
<LaserJock> secretlondon: hmm, that is an idea
<LaserJock> I've also got my laser
<LaserJock> that's it
<LaserJock> I'll chop off her stick with my laser ;-)
<LaserJock> mwuahaha
* Hobbsee attacks LaserJock /doom
<Hobbsee> awww
<LaserJock> ah well
<LaserJock> it's time for bed here
<secretlondon> 9am here
* Hobbsee attacks LaserJock with a with a Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (tm)
<Hobbsee> there we go :)
<StevenK> Heh
<LaserJock> I've successfully lowered the IQ of the room
<LaserJock> my work here is done
* Hobbsee attacks dholbach with a Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (tm)
<Hobbsee> there we go :)
* TheMuso runs away to avoid the stick.
* elkbuntu takes the stick from hobbsee and hides it.
* Hobbsee attacks TheMuso with a Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (tm)
<TheMuso> I ran away.
<TheMuso> YOu missed me.
<LaserJock> you can't attack dholbach
* Hobbsee beats elkbuntu with the stick, even though it's her birthday
<LaserJock> he gives you hugs!
<elkbuntu> but Hobbsee, there is no stick
<LaserJock> ohhhh, nice move
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: YOU CANT TAKE MY STICK!  NO ONE CAN!
* dholbach HUGS HOBBSEE
<TheMuso> Its a figment of your imagination.
<dholbach> HAPPY BIRTHDAY! :-)
* Hobbsee HUGS dholbach 
<elkbuntu> bwahaha!
<LaserJock> deny the existence of the stick
<elkbuntu> thanks dholbach :)
<TheMuso> Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear Melissa, happy birthday to you.
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: you're a genius
<LaserJock> \o/
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, you're saying you smart arses never figured it?
* dholbach hugs elkbuntu too :)
<LaserJock> nah, I'm a scientist, common sense slips off me like teflon
<lifeless> ajmitch: thanks!
<ajmitch> lifeless: no problem
<LaserJock> anyway, good night MOTU Land
<elkbuntu> night-o LaserJock
<LaserJock> I can't wait to see you again in the morning
<dholbach> LaserJock: sleep tight
<LaserJock> yes, I have that little of a life
* elkbuntu finally notices dholbach's hug and hugs back
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> too! many! bug! reports!
<dholbach> hi giskard
<giskard> hello dholbach
<giskard> hello *
<Hobbsee> haha, yeah
<lifeless> oh :(. I need more memory :(
<lifeless> hmm. no sbin/init on the created image
<lifeless> ajmitch: ever seen that ?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> I'm sure the edgy setup I had used upstart, but I didn't check it
<lifeless> upstart provides init
<lifeless> this is missing /usr even
<lifeless> it is xen-create-image right ?
<lifeless> also, how do you exist 'xm console' ?
<ajmitch> debootstrap has been known to create incomplete chroots even when it hasn't grabbed everything
<ajmitch> ^]  iirc
<ajmitch> or ctrl-d
<lifeless> ^] 
<ajmitch> let me reboot into the xen kernel on my laptop
<lifeless> thanks
<ivoks> does anyone got xen working with VT enabled?
<ivoks> s/does/did
<ajmitch> I will if you ship me the hardware :)
<ivoks> i have the hardware, but it doesn't work :)
<ajmitch> got xen-ioemu-3.0 installed as well?
<lifeless> the hardware ?
<ivoks> no
<ajmitch> CPU with virtualisation support
<ivoks> ioemu is needed?
<lifeless> oh right
<lifeless> ivoks: yes
* ivoks stupid
<lifeless> just did not know the abbreviation ;)
* ajmitch got an athlon64 x2 too early
<ivoks> oh, i have that installed
<lifeless> ajmitch: oh?
<lifeless> ajmitch: does an FX2 count as too early ?
<ivoks> lifeless: i guess that's amd without VT :)
<ajmitch> lifeless: yeah, only the AM2-based amd64 chips have hardware virtualisation
<TheMuso> Do any of the new Intel CPUs have it?
* TheMuso guesses it will only be the xeons.
<lifeless> well thats good then, my wintendo can stay as such with no guilt ;)
<ajmitch> yes, they do
<lifeless> TheMuso:  Core2 and some D9xx processors (called 'Vanderpool' or 'VT')
<ivoks> TheMuso: almost all new intel have it
<ivoks> lifeless: core due (without 2) also has it
<TheMuso> Ok cool.
<ajmitch> ivoks: I thought only some of the core duos had it
<ajmitch> again, I got my laptop a few months early :)
<ajmitch> so I won't be upgrading for awhile
<ivoks> ajmitch: well, it's accured to say some of core duos don't have it
<ivoks> those with E in the name, like T2300E
<ivoks> all others have it
<spacey> even some pentium D's (900 serie) have VT
<ajmitch> hey spacey
* ajmitch might as well upgrade his xen domain to feisty
<ajmitch> since it's intended for testing & breaking
<spacey> hey
* spacey off to work
<ajmitch> night all
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Hobbsee> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
<DarkMageZ> ajmitch, oh, before you go. can you point me to a page for compiling vb.net apps under edgy?
<jsgotangco> he's probably asleep at this time
<secretlondon> he said night all some time ago
<DarkMageZ> hmm, his lack of /away is disturbing
<StevenK> He was probably too sleepy to set it.
<jsgotangco> is it? heh he's in new zealand where its like 2 or 3am now
<StevenK> Quarter to 1am
* StevenK hands jsgotangco TZ=NZ date
<jsgotangco> :D
<luisbg> hello all
<sistpoty> does anyone know how I can set up an i386 pbuilder on amd64?
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: StevenK will, when he comes back.  i cant see from his scripts how he's done it though
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: k, thx... will ping him then ;)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: ping?
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: pong
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: hmm.  it appears that StevenK is back.
<sistpoty> ah
<Hobbsee> or his computer lost the connection, and automaticallly came back
<Hobbsee> not sure which
<sistpoty> StevenK: how can I set up an i386 pbuilder on amd64?
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: that being said, you can shove thru a SRU to fix a FTBFS in universe, if you want :P
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: hm... not before I have my dapper-i386 pbuilder set up :P
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: it's for edgy.  a dapper i386 pbuilder wont help you :P
<sistpoty> damn *g*
<Hobbsee> hahaha
<sistpoty> lol, I'm so dumb... I used --debuildopts instead of --debootstrapopts for pbuilder :(
<Hobbsee> heh
<secretlondon> one day I'll be able to speak motu too ;)
<Hobbsee> secretlondon: one day :P
<secretlondon> Hobbsee: I'll get there :)
<Hobbsee> heeh :)
<Hobbsee> sounds good.  more female MOTUs :)
<secretlondon> :)
<gnomefreak> whats the fastest way to tar up 2 dozen files? tar -czxf file.tar.gz (list all files) is a long way. is there a shorter way?
<gnomefreak> >2dozen
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: move them all into a folder, and tar the folder?
<Hobbsee> or do it via a GUI :)
<Hobbsee> which is what i do :)
<sistpoty> mc is nice for that
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: mc?
<gnomefreak> midnight commander
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: midnight commander, just like the good old nc back in dos days
<Hobbsee> ahhh...
<Hobbsee> i thougth midnight commander was a GUI program?
<sistpoty> from a cli perspective it's a guid program *g*
<Hobbsee> oh, way cool :)
<sistpoty> dui even
<Hobbsee> true
<gnomefreak> so lets say i change something in ~/bleh/usr/lib/bleh i can just take the /usr/ file and tar it up right?
<thom> people still use mc? holy cow
<sistpoty> thom: what else should I use instead?
<sistpoty> gnomefreak: sorry, didn't get that exactly
<gnomefreak> i think i got it
<gnomefreak> imbrandon: you here?
<kolape> When will edgy.1 be released?
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: and how do you close it?
<Hobbsee> kolape: it may not be
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: f10
<gnomefreak> didnt think there was going to be a point release for edgy
<kolape> Hobbsee: Is it considered unnecessary?
<Hobbsee> ahh.  how'd i miss that?
<kolape> Hobbsee: Or is Edgy not considered very important?
<Hobbsee> it's not that
<kolape> Hobbsee: (Like a LTS would)
<Hobbsee> kolape: the reason being that it takes a lot of effort to put out a release, and the devs are all busy with the next version
<gnomefreak> edgy is only supported for 18 months so it would be just like breezy (no need for point releases)
<thom> kolape: edgy will be superceded in 6 months, there's no point (or time) for a point release
<kolape> gnomefreak: I heard there were some installation problems
<secretlondon> kolape: generally with non standard set ups - like beryl or automatix
<kolape> Hobbsee, thom: BTW, will there ever be a dapper.2?
<gnomefreak> kolape: and they will not be fixed for edgy look for the fixes in feisty. afaik
<thom> kolape: i imagine so
<gnomefreak> kolape: yes should be
<Hobbsee> kolape: no idea
<kolape> I see, thank you all
<kolape> Hobbsee: Why is it an effort? Why not simply replacing all packages with their *already-available* updates and create the new CD images and simply replacing the old ISOs from the ftp/http servers?
<zul> hi
<Hobbsee> hey zul
<thom> kolape: because it needs to be tested, and the installer needs to be updated etc
<Hobbsee> kolape: what thom said.  on all arches, in many configurations
<kolape> Oh, I see
<kolape> I thought an update was self-evidently better than the original package anyway
<sistpoty> hoooray, finally an i386 pbuilder :)
<sistpoty> StevenK: nevermind the ping, found out myself :)
<StevenK> You pinged me? :-P
<StevenK> Ah, so you did.
<StevenK> sistpoty: Sorry, I was afk.
<sistpoty> StevenK: no problem ;)
<StevenK> debootstrap --arch, thought.
<StevenK> Er, though
* StevenK threatens his fingers with grevious bodily cutting off if they keep mis-typing.
<sistpoty> StevenK: yes, that's it... for some strange reason it didn't work when I used it as last argument to pbuilder, but as first it worked.
<StevenK> sistpoty: You used --debootstrapopts ?
<sistpoty> StevenK: yes
<StevenK> Wierd.
<StevenK> Then again, pbuilder's option parsing has always been very strange.
<sistpoty> maybe it got confused by --othermirror and stuff
<StevenK> Possibly, but option parsing isn't very hard.
<Mez> thankyou Hobbsee ;)
<Hobbsee> Mez: :)
<Mez> You dont even know what for :P
<Hobbsee> Mez: indeed.  i was about to ask
<Mez> lol - for being the first to post to ubuntu-motu after i turned vacation off ;)
<Mez> meaning you helped me train my mail c,lient the mailing list
<Hobbsee> ahhh....
<Hobbsee> siretart: you know, there are only two australian women running ubuntu and or derivatives
<Hobbsee> siretart: i would expect you to keep them straight :P
<zul> Hobbsee: that we know of..
<Hobbsee> zul: true
<Hobbsee> well, that are on irc, anyway
<siretart> Hobbsee: did I get something wrong? if yes, I'm sorry
<Hobbsee> siretart: yep :)
<Hobbsee> siretart: i'm not melissa draper - that's elkbuntu :)
<Hobbsee> siretart: it's her birthday :)
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<siretart> Hobbsee: I'm awfully sorry
<elkbuntu> well, it was about an hour ago
<sistpoty> hehe, I just wrote a very similar mail
<Hobbsee> siretart: it's not a problem :)
<siretart> elkbuntu: my best wishes! :)
<sistpoty> elkbuntu: happy birthday then ;)
<siretart> hey sistpoty! :)
<Hobbsee> i was just amused :)
<elkbuntu> btw.. am i missing something in this conversation?
<sistpoty> elkbuntu: a mail to ubuntu-motu ml
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: sure.  siretart ended his reply to me on the MOTU mailing list about btw - happy birhtday
<elkbuntu> lol
<Hobbsee> "uh...it's not my birthday!"
<sistpoty> siretart: btw.: what was wrong with tiber?
* elkbuntu doesnt subscribe to -motu list
<siretart> sistpoty: the new kernel didn't bring up the interfaces
<luisbg> can I subscribe to the motu lisnt' even though I'm not a motu yet?
<luisbg> will only listen
<sistpoty> siretart: d'oh... do we have a recovery shell or s.th. now or can only s.o. else fix it in such cases?
<sistpoty> luisbg: the -motu ml is public, anybody can subscribe
<luisbg> sistpoty, ok thanks
<lotusleaf> does anyone here build gkrellmd for ubuntu? it fails to uninstall in Edgy with synaptic, dpkg from CLI, and aptitude, if this is offtopic I'm sorry
<sistpoty> lotusleaf: please file a bug in launchpad (if there isn't one yet)
<lotusleaf> sistpoty: will do, thanks =)
<siretart> sistpoty: unfortunately not
<siretart> sistpoty: are you at home this evening? I'll call you
<sistpoty> siretart: yes, I am... will probably go to uni anytime soon, but I should be back at 1800
* sistpoty is off to uni now... cya
<bddebian> Heya gang
<luisbg> http://www.80stees.com/products/He-Man-Masters-Universe-t-shirts.asp <---- official channel shirt?
<bddebian> hehe
<dholbach> yeah :)
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> I think I'll buy one for myself for Christmas. hopefully by then I'll be involved with motu :)
<luisbg> =)
<lotusleaf> Skeletor hoola hooping in an ubuntu logo hoola hoop with 3 ping pong balls attached. He smiles a skeletal smile and cackles as he-man dances like Elvis beside him.
<ezsquirt> I'm trying to make my first deb package but i can't get it right, is here the right place to ask for help ?
<lotusleaf> ezsquirt: have you read the guides to building debs?
<ezsquirt> lotusleaf: yes, that where i 'learned' how to do it
<lotusleaf> ezsquirt: ah, excellent. :)
<lotusleaf> ezsquirt: perhaps someone here may help you, I'm dining atm
<ezsquirt> ok bon apptit !
<lotusleaf> ezsquirt: =) thx, good luck
<ezsquirt> the deb-src package builds fine, but when i'm trying to get a binary deb out of it with pbuilder i get a compiling errors (Undefined references to functions). However, those fonctions are well defined in header files included in -dev packages i mentioned in debian/contro
<Gloubiboulga> ezsquirt, could you pastebine your debian/control and the build errors?
<ezsquirt> Gloubiboulga: sure
<sivang> hi all
<Gloubiboulga> hi sivang
<sivang> hey Gloubiboulga
<ezsquirt> Gloubiboulga: http://pastebin.ca/231009
<Gloubiboulga> pastebin.ca is getting really slow
<ezsquirt> yeah i waited several seconds when i submitted
* Gloubiboulga waits
<Gloubiboulga> I have to run in a few minutes :/
* ezsquirt blames pastebin
<Gloubiboulga> ezsquirt, the errors doesn't really speak to me...
<Gloubiboulga> I'd need to look at the code to find a solution, but I really have to leave now, sorry
<ezsquirt> ok, its no big deal
<Gloubiboulga> I'm sure than an other MOTU will have a look :)
<ezsquirt> i hope so ;)
<Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/beagle/+bug/38264 < the last comment says there is a fixed package in REVU, but REVU is only for new packages, isn't it?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 38264 in beagle "beagle Should Recommend mplayer" [Unknown,Confirmed] 
* PSUSI sighs
<PSUSI> damnit... does lp not have an option to reply to another comment in a bug?
<PSUSI> or maybe I should just reply to the email?
<zakame> hi all
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<Adri2000> can someone confirm that REVU is only for packages that are not yet in universe?
<PSUSI> that is what it is intended for, yea
<PSUSI> if you are fixing a bug in an existing package, attach the new source package to the bug
<Adri2000> so beagle and mpd shouldn't be there
<Adri2000> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3352 http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3260
<PSUSI> not really, no...
<Adri2000> and they are not the only ones
<Adri2000> ajmitch raphink siretart ? :)
<siretart> Adri2000: when we wrote revu, I had only one thing in mind: making reviewing easier.
<siretart> Adri2000: so if you think that revu helps reviewing of your package, you are free to use it for any package
<Adri2000> ok
<luisbg> where can I find detailed information about the workings of the debian/postint of packages?
<luisbg> I found a package that doesn't install because the posint is missing something
<geser> luisbg: what exactly do you want to know about postinst?
<luisbg> how they work, to be able to spot an error in the one on this package
<luisbg> googled about postinst, but it seams there is not much information about it
<luisbg> and since it's a bug fix I don't think making dh_make create it for me is going to be smart
<lotusleaf> can someone plz link me to the page on ubuntu.com for the proposed packages for universe?
<luisbg> geser, in this case the postinst looks too short/small
<geser> luisbg: have you already looked at the debian policy manual?
<Adri2000> lotusleaf: "proposed" packages means what?
<geser> luisbg: not all packages need a large postinst (see e.g. the postinst of the package "locales")
<luisbg> geser, looked over it the other day, going to check it out now
<geser> luisbg: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html#s6.1
<lotusleaf> Adri2000: packages suggested for inclusion in the future
<lotusleaf> Adri2000: perhaps proposed was the wrong word
<luisbg> geser, ok, going to try to spot the problem myself (have to learn) ;)
<luisbg> will ask if I get tired :P
<Adri2000> lotusleaf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates ?
<lotusleaf> Adri2000: that's it, thanks =)
<lotusleaf> on that page, "Do we really need this when we have istanbul?? - OnkarShinde" for xvidcap, I would say yes, the more video related utilities in ubuntu the better.
<ezsquirt> lotusleaf: could you give me a hand about the problem i was talking earlier ?
<lotusleaf> ezsquirt: you may want to ask Amaranth, I'm in a conference call
<ezsquirt> ok
<lotusleaf> Amaranth: ping ezsquirt has a question may you help please? :)
<luisbg> is there a maximum of dependencies in debian/control ?
<luisbg> geser, are you around?
<dholbach> luisbg: ubuntu-desktop still does fine :)
<luisbg> dholbach, LOL, that is some dependencies there
<luisbg> do you swear me none are rebundant?
<dholbach> redundant?
<dholbach> I can't promise, but if there are redundancies, they are for the purpose of making sure that stuff gets pulled in, even if dependencies of the individual packages change
<luisbg> for example... it depends on package evolution and evolution-exchange
<luisbg> when -exchange depends on evolution
<luisbg> but I can understand in some particular case that is needed
<luisbg> but usually that type of redundancies aren't good right?
<dholbach> sometimes you have "redundancies" because of versioned, explicit dependencies
<dholbach> ubnutu-desktop is a bad example for that
<luisbg> ok ok, cool
<dholbach> so that's fine
<luisbg> dholbach, are you a motu?
<dholbach> yes
<thom> nah, dholbach's just a fan boy ;-)
<awbassett> haha
<luisbg> lol
* dholbach hugs thom
<dholbach> thom: I'll always be YOUR fanboy :-)
<luisbg> dholbach, can you guide me through a weird dependency bug?
<thom> heh :-) that's only because you're always drunk when we see each other :-)
<luisbg> I believe i've fixed it but the nature is weird so not sure
<dholbach> thom: looking forward to next week! :)
<thom> yeah, it should be a lot of fun
<dholbach> luisbg: what's the problem?
<luisbg> try to apt install package ggz-grubby
<luisbg> it will give error at the ggz-config call at postinst
<luisbg> then to install ggz-config apt isntall ggzcore-bin
<luisbg> now ggz-grubby will install
<thom> ggz-grubby needs to Pre-Depend on ggzcore-bin then
<luisbg> but the weird part is... ggzcore-bin is a dependency of ggz-grubby (but it ignores it)
<luisbg> it is in the debian/control
<luisbg> last dependency
<dholbach> luisbg: what thom said
<luisbg> I switched it to the first place... works nicely
<thom> (Pre-Depend: is not Depend:)
<luisbg> what is Pre-Depend?
<luisbg> enfasis at "pre" :P
<thom> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps
<thom> although, if you're using it in postinst it should be ok as a depends
<thom> try it as a pre-dep and see if it fixes the issue
<luisbg> thom, ok! thanks, now it really makes sense
<luisbg> it is normal for the command to not be accesible if they are installed at the same time
<luisbg> ggzcore has to be installed first, so then the installation of grubby can use it
<luisbg> =)
* luisbg feels the warmth of learning
<Adri2000> should I submit a bug report to have a new package in Ubuntu which already exists in Debian ?
<luisbg> what is an example of a package that has some pre-dependencies?
<thom> luisbg: all you need is a field like Depends in your control file, with Pre- stuck on the front. and that's it
<luisbg> thom, before or after of the depends
<luisbg> did so after and...
<thom> doesn't matter
<luisbg> "configure: error: ggz-config not found. Please check your installation!"
<luisbg> sorry for the hazzle :S
<thom> can i see your source package?
<luisbg> sure...
<luisbg> thom, query
<luisbg> I know it sounds strange but... does the order of dependencies matter?
<thom> not that i know of
<LaserJock> good morning MOTU land!
<imbrandon> moins LaserJock
* imbrandon just woke up 
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you're up!
<imbrandon> heh only by 5 minutes
<LaserJock> I was seriously wondering if you hadn't gone to bed yet
<imbrandon> was reading the MOTU list :)
<imbrandon> hahaha nah just got up about 5 min ago
<imbrandon> trying to get on a semi sane schedule for MTV
<imbrandon> how go's it ?
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> just got into work
<imbrandon> looks like there has been some good input on the ML about SRU
<LaserJock> making some Mt. View plans
<LaserJock> my grandpa lives in Sacramento
<imbrandon> i updated the wiki comments a bit to refect some minor changes
<LaserJock> and my wife's aunt lives in Mt. View
<imbrandon> rockin
<imbrandon> you gonna visit him on the way ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> dude are you driving down?
<LaserJock> yeah
<bddebian> LaserJock: Hey, wtf are you volunteering me for now? ;-P
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> bddebian: being a MOTU diety  of course
<bddebian> bah :)
<imbrandon> i was gonna accept and add a few more comments to the ML but i wanted to pop in the shower first
<imbrandon> LaserJock, serouisly are you leaving sat or friday night ? ( at the end of MTV )
<LaserJock> heh, I'm actually leaving Monday night
<imbrandon> ahh :)
<LaserJock> I've got 2 meetings I can't get out of
<imbrandon> no no
<imbrandon> i mean at the ned
<LaserJock> 1 seminar on the 7th
<imbrandon> end*
<imbrandon> 11th
<LaserJock> and 1 meeting on the 10th
<LaserJock> so I'm leaving the 6th :(
<imbrandon> oh
<imbrandon> i thought you were comming tuesday and leaving at the end
<LaserJock> yes, so did I
<LaserJock> but things got all messed up at work
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> so whats the plans now ?
<LaserJock> so I'm  coming Sunday and Monday
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<LaserJock> I'd rather be at the beginning
<imbrandon> right
<LaserJock> and it means I only have to take 1 day off of work
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> I already got in trouble with my advisor for spending too much time on the computer and not enough time getting data
<imbrandon> so you finaly got ubuntu at work ? hehe
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> rockin
<LaserJock> I'm on my intel iMac
<LaserJock> running Edgy
<LaserJock> and it's beautiful
<LaserJock> it's sooooo fast
<imbrandon> sweet, ok lemme pop in the shower and i'll followup to the ML
<imbrandon> yea i bet
* imbrandon is jelous
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> well, compared to my 1.3GHz P4 anything is pretty speedy
<LaserJock> but I realized that my laptop (which has a 2.8GHz Celeron) is very bottlenecked at the hard drive
<luisbg> LaserJock, intel iMac...
* luisbg envies LaserJock 
<LaserJock> where pbuilder takes ~ 1 min. to unpack
<imbrandon> yea lappy hdd's are slow mostly
<imbrandon> they can be fast but most are slow
<LaserJock> well, I knew they were slower, but ...
<imbrandon> yea thats the main bottlerneck on most laptops
<LaserJock> anyway, I was sort of hoping my boss wouldn't notice I wasn't running OS X
<imbrandon> LOL
<luisbg> heh
<imbrandon> you can theme it to look exactly like osx
<LaserJock> but he made a "surprise" visit the other day
<imbrandon> i had my ibook looking like osx for a while
<LaserJock> and I was in the middle of C++ hacking and discussing something here
<imbrandon> LOL
<luisbg> imbrandon, what's that theme?
<imbrandon> luisbg, the osx theme i used and the luna thme i used i make ( conglomeration of alot of themes and some original code )
<imbrandon> to make it EXACT
<luisbg> cool
<LaserJock> but I must say, I find Ubuntu much more productive
<imbrandon> the luna ( xp media center looking one ) i have up for download but it need updating as its compiled for breezy
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I think mostly because even when I was running OS X I was trying to use it like an Ubuntu machine
<imbrandon> LaserJock, haha yea
<imbrandon> fink
<LaserJock> once you get like the OS X zen going on it's not bad
<LaserJock> but you have to kinda think differently
<imbrandon> yup yup, its a whole nother ball game, but once your used to it OMG it rocks, it just takes a while to get the rythm
<LaserJock> the only thing I miss right now is sadly MS Office :(
<imbrandon> oo.o ?
<LaserJock> it's like 90% ok
<imbrandon> you have a valid ms office key ?
<LaserJock> but not quite there
<luisbg> I think they are both very cool systems... each one in their sport
<LaserJock> hmm, we have a university license
<imbrandon> if so i can give you a copy of crossover ( wine ) that will run ms office ( i am a advocate for cxoffice so i get a few perks like free copys to distribute :P )
<ezsquirt> i'm trying to get my deb src package compiled through pbuilder, problem is it fails when trying to create a dir (permission denied) what's the proper way to fix this ?
<imbrandon> ezsquirt, whats the error, a pbuilder error or a package script error ?
<imbrandon> brb i'ma pop in the shower
<ezsquirt> package script error
<LaserJock> ezsquirt: please pastebin the pbuilder log
<LaserJock> !pastebin > ezsquirt
<ezsquirt> ok
<ezsquirt> http://pastebin.ca/231214
<PriceChild> Hello... I'm trying to package xvidcap
<PriceChild> wondering what section to put it in... x11 ?
<LaserJock> ezsquirt: ok, can you pastebin debian/rules for me?
<ToHellWithGA> k3d needs a one letter fix to make it install properly.  who does that?
<LaserJock> PriceChild: sounds reasonable
<ezsquirt> sure
<LaserJock> ToHellWithGA: a bug report would be a good place to start
<ToHellWithGA> done and done
<PriceChild> thanks :)
<LaserJock> ToHellWithGA: ok then :-)
<ezsquirt> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29569/
<ToHellWithGA> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/k3d/+bug/64848
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64848 in k3d "k3d does not install" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<LaserJock> ezsquirt: the problem is this line in the build log "mkdir -p /usr/share/gmpc/plugins/"
<ezsquirt> yup
<LaserJock> ezsquirt: it looks like the sources Makefile isn't respecting DESTDIR
<LaserJock> it *should* be making $DESTDIR/$PREFIX//share/gmpc/plugins/
<ezsquirt> i see
<LaserJock> ezsquirt: grep for plugins and mkdir in the Makefile and see how it is determines that path
<ezsquirt> src/Makefile.am:libdir=${prefix}/share/gmpc/plugins/
<ezsquirt> src/Makefile.in:libdir = ${prefix}/share/gmpc/plugins/
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so it's using ${prefix} rather then ${destdir}${prefix}
<LaserJock> grep for DESTDIR and destdir in the Makefile
<LaserJock> and see if it even attempts at respecting it
* luisbg luisbg_afk
<ezsquirt> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29572
<ezsquirt> i'm not familiar with makefiles, i'll have to read some docs !
<LaserJock> hmm, well it seems like it at least tries
<LaserJock> maybe you need to also specify DESTDIR in the ./configure or build parts
<ezsquirt> ok... i see what to do, thanks a bunch !
<ajmitch> morning all
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<fernando> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ok, we need to get the motu school sessions going again in the next 2-3 weeks
<ajmitch> think we should put out a call for contributions?
<LaserJock> yep
* ajmitch wonders why he's turning into a manager
<ajmitch> scary
<zul> yeah im scared as well :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> ajmitch:  those who are to lazy to do real work manage ;-)
<ajmitch> fits me perfectly
<LaserJock> ajmitch: are you writing an email currently?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: not quite yet, do you want to write one?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Adri2000> should I submit a bug report to have a new package in Ubuntu which already exists in Debian ?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: if you want to it's fine. I had some other things I wanted to mention so I was going to do a "Here's what we need to do before we get cracking on feisty"
<ajmitch> LaserJock: fine, go & be a manager ;)
<ajmitch> Adri2000: no need
<Adri2000> so what should I do?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: heh, I think you were one of the people declaring me MOTU Manager ;-)
<ajmitch> Adri2000: wait
* Adri2000 waits
<ajmitch> good, it might get in within a week or two
<Adri2000> hm? I don't understand
<ajmitch> packages in debian get synced to feisty
<Adri2000> the package I'm speaking of is mcabber, it is in Debian since July, and it is not in edgy, why?
<lucas> Adri2000: because it was uploaded to debian *after* the process of autosyncing to edgy stopped
<lucas> and nobody cared to request a sync manually
<lucas> packages which are in debian but not in ubuntu are generally not taken care of
<Adri2000> ok
<superm1> ajmitch, is there a day announced for when feisty repos are going to open up for packages yet then?
<superm1> or just after UDS and thats all thats defined
<ajmitch> superm1: "when they're ready"
<LaserJock> hehe
<superm1> hehe thats what i figured, but i was gonna try and ask anyway ;)
<superm1> who should I talk to about getting a bzr branch set up for a package on LP?
<LaserJock> superm1: well you can put it in your bzr space
<superm1> do I have bzr space already defined on LP?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if that's what you are looking for though
<LaserJock> superm1: sure, if you have an LP account
<superm1> oh i had no idea.
<LaserJock> superm1: what's your LP id
<superm1> superm1
<superm1> :)
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/superm1/+branches
<superm1> well but, how do I add a new product then?
<superm1> I wanted to start maintaining myth on a bzr branch,
<superm1> so that I didn't have to keep up with which debdiffs got applied in the right order and such
<LaserJock> if you want to push something there you can bzr push --create-prefix sftp://superm1@bazaar.launchpad.net/~superm1/<product>/<branchname>
<LaserJock> or something along those lines
<superm1> and it just needs my SSH public key registered then right?
<LaserJock> yep
<superm1> okay that is good to know.   what about the public space people have at people.ubuntu.com, do I get that with LP also?
<superm1> or is that for canonical employees only
<superm1> or did I get that when I became an ubuntu member possibly?
<zul> those are canonical employees
<superm1> oh i see
<LaserJock> core-devs I thought
<zul> heh i dont have one if thats true :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no, it was raised at a recent TB meeting
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is people.ubuntu.com in the DC or something?
<lucas> I remember from the TB discussion that it is
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> heh, so shouldn't it be people.canonical.com? :-)
<ajmitch> ideally, yes
<vil> tap
<LaserJock> darn, more "Why didn't this get into Edgy, you screwed your users over" bugs :-)
<bddebian> joy
<bddebian> LaserJock: BTW, I'm happy to help with/join in anything after about the first of the year, but with work, I can't keep up currently :'-(
<vil> ping 10.8.0.1
<vil> sorry, wrong window
<bddebian> no reply from host
<bddebian> no reply from host
<bddebian> no reply from host
<bddebian> :-)
<vil> fast response, anyway :)
<StevenK> LaserJock: Where this is Flash 9? :-P
<LaserJock> it's eeevverywhere
<LaserJock> it's an eternal force that flows throughout the universe
<LaserJock> tempting us towards the dark side
<ezsquirt> hehe
<LaserJock> I think imbrandon has a package
<ezsquirt> i did it ! i made my first deb package and it even works ;)
<highvoltage> ezsquirt: whohoo!
<ezsquirt> let's celebrate by drinking some champagne
<LaserJock> *\o/*
<LaserJock> *-o/*
<LaserJock> *-o-*
<xopher> anyone familiar with crosscompiling using pbuilder? If so, could you take a look at this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1695297#post1695297
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so how many more people have you proposed for the SRU team?
<LaserJock> I haven't proposed any more
<LaserJock> just my initial "batch"
<LaserJock> although I don't think they all need/want to be in there
<ajmitch> well dholbach is going to have quite a job
<StevenK> xopher: That isn't cross-compiling, and I don't think you're passing enough arguments to pbuilder.
<StevenK> xopher: And where did you get pbuilder32 from, and what does it do?
<LaserJock> personally, I'd like sistpoty's suggesting of also expanding motu-uvf
<LaserJock> so we have 5-7 people each on motu-uvf and motu-sru
<xopher> What's it called then?  I created pbuilder32 myself, I could post it too..
<StevenK> xopher: It isn't cross compiling because an amd64 processor can execute i386 code natively.
<xopher> I see, but what is it called?
<xopher> Because I cant compile i386 natively w/o a chroot env. ? or can I?
<LaserJock> Mez: you disagree with my uninstallable and unusable?
<StevenK> xopher: Compiling is different to executing.
<StevenK> xopher: Anyway, the reason pbuilder is compiling is because you aren't specifying --distribution
<LaserJock> I don't really see why we should be preventing SRUs  if they are well done and tested
<StevenK> s/compiling/complaining/
<xopher> StevenK, well, when running this: sudo pbuilder32 create --distribution edgy --debootstrapopts --arch=i386 - I get the exact same output
<StevenK> xopher: Try it with pbuilder as opposed to pbuilder32?
<xopher> Well Im sure that'd work, but then it'd overwrite my current base.tgz image?
<StevenK> xopher: Then specify another location with --basetgz
<xopher> Ill try, thanks
<xopher> StevenK, nope, same error
<xopher> Its something about the pbuilderrc I believe
<xopher> or, Im not passing pbuilder enough options
<StevenK> I'm still checking, I think the way pbuilder executes debootstrap leaves something to be desired.
<StevenK> xopher: It looks like pbuilder wants a single argument after --debootstrapopts, like --arch=i386, whereas debootstrap wants it without the equal sign.
<xopher> This meaning ?
<StevenK> xopher: Right, it's pbuilder. --debootstrapopts --arch=i386 won't work, but --debootstrapopts --arch --debootstrapopts i386 will.
<xopher> ok, Ill try, thanks
<xopher> StevenK, allright, now I seem to be getting somewhere again ;) Thanks a million!
<StevenK> xopher: No problem. :-)
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<LaserJock> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey LaserJock
<ajmitch> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi ajmitch
<Toadstool> oh nice! stats on merges.ubuntu.com
<Toadstool> and 449 packages to merge...
<ajmitch> oh, he got the graphs working as well?
<Toadstool> yup
<ajmitch> nice :)
* ajmitch has 1 sync filed & 3 others underway already for main
<Toadstool> ok, I can't upload yet but at least I can prepare 1 or 2 uploads during my lunch break
<ajmitch> I haven't started on universe stuff yet, most of that will be focused in the areas where I need things for specs :)
<Toadstool> heh
<ajmitch> I don't plan to do many general fixups for feisty, I fear I'll run out of time
<Toadstool> I am too busy with work to do anything more advanced than basic merges and package maintenace :/
* ajmitch checks out the iptables merge
<ajmitch> this one should be easy
<ajmitch> hm, bother, a conflict
<ajmitch> just build-deps, easy to resolve
<Toadstool> easy merge, no challenge, next ;)
<LaserJock> haha, I'm on the main.html page :-)
<ajmitch> yay, selinux support in iptables
<TheMuso> SO we are still waiting on feisty to be bootstrapped?
<ajmitch> yeah, I touched iptables last, so it's mine to merge
<ajmitch> yeah
<TheMuso> Right.
* ajmitch also wants samba, and the rest of the selinux tools
<LaserJock> ajmitch: how are merges handled in Main?
<ajmitch> same way as universe
<LaserJock> ok
<ajmitch> last person who touched it gets it, unless it gets reassigned
<ajmitch> I already cleared stealing samba from pitti, and libselinux from infinity
<LaserJock> maybe I'll steal some
<ajmitch> such as?
<LaserJock> edubuntu stuff
<ajmitch> talk to them before stealing, of course :)
<LaserJock> gcompris, tuxpaint, tuxmath, xaos
<LaserJock> well yeah
<LaserJock> I need to get my Main skills sharpened
<ajmitch> going for core dev?
<zul> hmmm...i think ill merge xen-tools
<ajmitch> zul: brave
<zul> :P
<ajmitch> there's a few changes in both
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'd like to, I want to work on Edubuntu
<zul> right im going home later..
<ezsquirt> is there a revu admin to save the queen ? err.. to add my key to REVU uploaders keyring :)
<ajmitch> you have submitted your key to launchpad, and joined the team?
<ezsquirt> yup
<ezsquirt> i followed the steps from REVU wiki page
<ajmitch> ok, doing the keyring sync now
<ezsquirt> thanks
<Toadstool> ajmitch: while you're on tiber, could you replace my SSH key with the new one on Launchpad? the old private key is on my computer in France and my parents don't want to switch it on again... :/
<ajmitch> Toadstool: ok, just a minute
<Toadstool> ajmitch: thanks a lot
<ajmitch> it should work now
<Toadstool> ajmitch: works, thanks :)
<LaserJock> linux-source-2.6.19? is that right?
<LaserJock> I thought we were at 2.6.18
<ajmitch> yes, that's right
<LaserJock> I mean, not that I think BenC is full of it
<ajmitch> ii  linux-image-2.6.19-1-generic      2.6.19-1.1                        Linux kernel image for version 2.6.19 on x86/x86_64
<ajmitch> LaserJock: where's that mail about motu school stuff?
<LaserJock> it's coming
<imbrandon> ok i just updated the SRU wiki workflow with crimsun's sugestions on the time ( to stay with the main timeline ) and sent a email to -motu with a summary so far
<imbrandon> moins tseng LaserJock ajmitch
<ajmitch> imbrandon: hey
<bhale> hey imbrandon
<lfittl> hrmm, should a package depend on stuff that is pulled in by ubuntu-minimal? (in this case, lighttpd depends on perl-modules, and I am not sure if it is necessary)
<imbrandon> lfittl, its my understanding it should depend on anything that is not debootstraped
<lfittl> imbrandon: and debootstraped is everything that has Priority: essential, right?
<imbrandon> afaik yes
<LaserJock> well, Priority:essential is the particular criteria
<LaserJock> but yeah
<lfittl> k, thanks
<Adri2000> I have a tarball foo-x.y but the directory in it is just foo (without the version), and dh_make doesn't work because it wants the version in the directory name
<Adri2000> can I just rename the directory?
<LaserJock> Adri2000: yep
<Adri2000> ok
<luisbg> which game can I play in ubuntu without video card acceleration? what do you recommend?
<imbrandon> chess
<superm1> luisbg, any of the games installed by default in gnome-games, gnome-sudoku, supertux
<imbrandon> heya superm1
<superm1> hey imbrandon
<LaserJock> ok, bombs away ajmitch
<superm1> imbrandon, jono got ahold of me, and now there is an official mythtv team :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ii ? you have a feisty system already ?
<imbrandon> superm1, rockin, on LP ? i should probably join that
<superm1> yup
<superm1> i'll throw ya in it
<imbrandon> k
<superm1> the wiki page outlining the team isn't ready or started for that matter, but we've got ideas for it all ready and such
<imbrandon> nice
<superm1> i'll be assembling it later before i head to bed
<imbrandon> i'm working on another spec i'm going to try to squeeze in MTV
<imbrandon> i hate writing specs
<superm1> haha
<ajmitch> imbrandon: of course I do
<imbrandon> you brave soul
<superm1> i wanted to see if i could get ivtv and lirc built with linux-restricted-modules, should i just file a bug or write a last minute spec for it u think?
<imbrandon> thats not spec material i dont think
<superm1> yea i didnt think so
<superm1> pretty straightforward once we get a fully buildable lirc synced from debian
<imbrandon> spec == planning and forethought, not just adding or removing packages
<imbrandon> right
<superm1> jono was saying though that shuttleworth wants feisty to have mythtv "just work", and not have any hassle with it
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> its getting close
<ajmitch> superm1: it'd be a nice thing to have
<luisbg> anybody knows why worms of prey doesn't have ubuntu package? [ http://www.wormsofprey.org/download.html ] 
<luisbg> I never game but I feel like it today, and just finded this one
<ajmitch> because noone has packaged it?
<imbrandon> luisbg, probably becouse no one in debian or ubuntu has taken the time to make proper packages and get them sponsored
<superm1> i was talking to cesman on #knoppmyth though, and there is a rumor floating that they might adapt ubuntu instead for their base distro
<bhale> sounds nice
<superm1> so if that was the case, they'd probably use what we got going with feisty for a base and do some nifty live cd customization
<luisbg> imbrandon, may I give it a try?
<imbrandon> luisbg, sure if you feel like it, no ones gonna stop you :)
<superm1> unless you do a bad job packaging it :)
<imbrandon> lol they still wouldent stop you , they just woudlent uplaod it
<luisbg> LOL
<luisbg> superm1, :\
<luisbg> will work on it tomorrow
<luisbg> if I get something useful I will start searching for sponsoring motu's... so be scared
* Fujitsu starts shaking.
* imbrandon points to revu , abuse that not us :)
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: just run away
* imbrandon go's to rake some leaves off the front steps for the trick or treaters getting ready to come
<imbrandon> back in ~15 min
* ajmitch will be back in ~1 hour
* Fujitsu will be back when sponsorship requests run away :P
* luisbg can smell the sponsorship fear in the air
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-01
<Nafallo> hi! ubuntu-sru is the correct team to subscribe for edgy-updates uploads, right? :-)
<ajmitch> no
<Nafallo> oh?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bhale> Nafallo: read StableReleaseUpdates
<Nafallo> bddebian: hi there :-)
<bhale> Nafallo: kthx
<bddebian> Heya Nafallo
<Nafallo> hmm, what's that SRU-team for then? :-)
<ajmitch> there is no ubuntu-sru team
<Nafallo> motu-sru even
<ajmitch> that's for the *proposed* policy for universe, which we're discussing on the list
<Nafallo> aha.
<Nafallo> I have a backlog for mail so... :-/
<bddebian> '
<ajmitch> I'm surprised you filed bugs against 2.6.19
<Nafallo> yea, I should have read the topic first.
<Nafallo> I'm back on 2.6.17 now :-P
<imbrandon> ajmitch, so did gnash look sane to you for upload when feisty opens ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no idea, I haven't really checked it
<imbrandon> hehe ok
<imbrandon> i think i just started a flame-ish war in the kubuntu world
<imbrandon> ( not intentionaly )
<ajmitch> well done
<imbrandon> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-koffice-by-default
<ajmitch> the 28th "-by-defult" spec..
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> seems to be the new thing to name them
<ajmitch> already accepted as a release goal, that's useful
<imbrandon> yea mdz approved it
<ajmitch> we need to get some of our directory specs approved as goals
<imbrandon> a few minutes ago ( was suprised )
<imbrandon> freeflying, you get irssi working on gobstopper? or just using ircII
<freeflying> imbrandon: i'm using konversation  :)
<imbrandon> hrm how are you connecting from gobstopper then ?
<imbrandon> [18:36]  --> freeflying has joined this channel (i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com).
<freeflying> imbrandon: ssh-tunnel
<imbrandon> ahh
<freeflying> :)
<ajmitch> hm, I wonder if I should learn the python kde bindings
<ajmitch> I guess I can see if I'll have time
<imbrandon> yes, come to the dark side
<ajmitch> more that I'd write both a gtk+ & a qt frontend
<imbrandon> true
<ajmitch> so that we don't cut out kubuntu from the network auth config stuff
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I thought one couldn't use dreamhost to run IRC stuff.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: probably port 8001
<imbrandon> TheMuso, well aparently freeflying is ( he has a ssh account on my server heheh )
<TheMuso> Right.
<imbrandon> and they have ircII installed but i dont like it, i tried to compile irssi but it dosent have the required perl modules
<imbrandon> soooo i would have to compile perl too
<TheMuso> That sucks.
<imbrandon> and that was too much for my taste
<TheMuso> But they have compilers on the servers?
<TheMuso> Wow.
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> and its allowed
<TheMuso> Wow.
<imbrandon> you just have to watch your cpu hours
<TheMuso> Which you'd have to do if you are running IRC stuff anyway.
<imbrandon> only 60 cpu hours a week are allowed or you get charged
<ajmitch> hm, irssi has been running for a few months on my box
<imbrandon> about the only thing dh dosent allow is bittorrent trackers
<imbrandon> other than that its pretty much anything go's
<TheMuso> They probably wouldn't allow streaming servers either. :)
<imbrandon> they even have howtos for compiling and installing other python versions than what they have installed incase your site needs a diff version
<TheMuso> Wow.
<imbrandon> yea they alloow streaming servers
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Like icecast etc? WHy not just install them for us?
<imbrandon> i have an iceccast and darwin streaming server running on imbrandon.com
<TheMuso> imbrandon: And how do you know this?
<imbrandon> the dreamhost wiki :)
<TheMuso> Ok.
* TheMuso looks.
<ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
<imbrandon> the darwin streaming server can be installed for you from the control pannel
<TheMuso> Whats the darwin streaming server?
<imbrandon> apples streaming server for quicktime
<imbrandon> mov's rtsp:// etc
<TheMuso> yuck
<TheMuso> I'd rather use icecast.
<TheMuso> Nothing on their wiki about that.,
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch, TheMuso, imbrandon
<imbrandon> yea there is no howto for it on the wiki
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<imbrandon> you just compile and install it in your home dir
<LaserJock> hmm, my department server is running Debian stable
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why?
<Fujitsu> Nobody needs a stable server.
<LaserJock> well, it got fried
<LaserJock> it *was* running Suse 9.1 I think
<Fujitsu> Urgh, anything's better than that.
<LaserJock> well, I think it's even different hardware
<ajmitch> what's wrong with running sarge?
<Fujitsu> Good, you wouldn't want to run anything on a box which has been tainted by SuSE.
* ajmitch likes sarge
* Fujitsu prefers Dapper.
<LaserJock> well, my problem is right now that mutt has weird characters
<bhale> dapper is alright
<ajmitch> ah that fun
<LaserJock> I personally would love to have a Debian/Ubuntu server at work
<ajmitch> you're too used to having UTF-8 enabled
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> can I turn it on for just me?
<ajmitch> probably not
<LaserJock> darn
<ajmitch> I don't know
<Fujitsu> UTF-8 was only enabled in Hoary, AFAIK, so Sarge won't have it.
<Fujitsu> (global UTF-8 support, that is)
<ajmitch> I wonder if we can kill off some of these specs
<ajmitch> many of which will just sit & rot & clutter up launchpad
<Fujitsu> Is there even a Rejected state for them?
<ajmitch> yes
<Fujitsu> Because there's a lot of clutter and random crap there.
<ajmitch> though the display of the 'not for us' is broken
<LaserJock> ack, what would I change it to for en_US ? en_US or iso-8859-1 ?
<ajmitch> en_US.UTF-8
<ajmitch> if the locale is there
<Fujitsu> ISO-8859-1 should be approximately the same as en_US.
<minghua> LaserJock: first use "locale -a" to check
<minghua> LaserJock: if en_US.UTF-8 is there, set it to that; otherwise set to en_US (which uses iso-8859-1)
<minghua> Fujitsu: s/approximately//
<LaserJock> minghua: sweet, I set set charset="en_US" in muttrc and it's all good
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, that means you are currently using en_US locale
* ajmitch wonders if he should nominate people for the sru tasks
<zul> why not
* Fujitsu nominates ajmitch, ajmitch, ajmitch, and a few more ajmitches.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: nope, but you can process mine, thanks!
<imbrandon> ajmitch, sure, you started the ball rolling :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: no I can't
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it's more a case of picking names
<imbrandon> ajmitch,  yea , thats what i said in my last email
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> did anybody get my "MOTU Todo" email?
<ajmitch> which I haven't seen
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yup
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yes.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, we got your mail of your glorious ideas
<LaserJock> ok, my email is so screwy these day
<LaserJock> ajmitch: haha
<LaserJock> well, I'm sending from different servers
<LaserJock> with different addresses
<LaserJock> sometimes things don't go right
<imbrandon> hrm i got the email
<imbrandon> but it dident show on the web list
* imbrandon scratches his head
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I didn't get it
<imbrandon> hrm yea i just looked at the web archive
<imbrandon> its not htere
<imbrandon> but i have it in my inbox :(
<imbrandon> timestamped 20 minutes before laserjocks email
<ajmitch> how unfortunate
<ajmitch> it's a sign
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss114.png
<imbrandon> even says it from the list in the headers :(
<imbrandon> wth
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I got that one.
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29638/
<imbrandon> is the contents
<imbrandon> dunno why its not showing up to everyone
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I got it
<bddebian> Damn, NWN2 was supposed to ship today..
<Fujitsu> NWN2 == ?
<bddebian> Never Winter Nights
<imbrandon> bddebian, dont tell me that i was addicted to NWN for months :)
* imbrandon covers his ears
<bddebian> imbrandon: Me too :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<bddebian> I used to run an NWN server on a Debian server ;-)
<imbrandon> yea me too
<imbrandon> i still have all the scripts somewhere
<imbrandon> man
<imbrandon> bddebian, we're gonna have to get a NWN2 server going :)
<LaserJock> oh geeze
<jsgotangco> wooo count me in
<Fujitsu> It runs on Linux, does it?
<bddebian> Hey, we can make that the goal for the Ubuntu Games Server ;-)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea its one of the few 3d games designed for linux too
<Fujitsu> Wow.
* Fujitsu Wikipedias it.
<bddebian> But it is "non-free"
<imbrandon> yea i payed $75 for the client
<LaserJock> if it was America's Army I'd be impressed
<bddebian> pfft
<bddebian> Though I did like Call of Duty I and II :-)
<imbrandon> how much is NWN2 ?
<Burgwork> imbrandon: paid, please
<imbrandon> Burgwork, yea i'm lazy on IRC
<bddebian> $75?? WTF?
<ajmitch> IRC is no excuse
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: people who play that are all flash, no brains
<imbrandon> bddebian, i bought the collectors edition with the maps t-shirt and stuff
<bddebian> Ahhh
<Amaranth> The most I ever payed for a game is $40. :P
<Fujitsu> The most I ever payed for a game is...
* Fujitsu thinks.
<Fujitsu> Can't say I've ever played a non-free (as in beer) game.
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: you play what? America's Army?
<imbrandon> NWN and UO
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: grr, who play what? I meant
<bddebian> Morrowind (and eventually Oblivion) ;-)
<LaserJock> America's Army and Unreal Tournament 2004 are the only games I've really ever played much
<LaserJock> we had my lab set up as a UT2004 lan server
<LaserJock> we had every machine in the lab playing
<LaserJock> it was fun
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> man i dont know where my NWN cd's are, thats probably a good thing
<bddebian> Who needs them with NWN2 coming? ;-P
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon go's to look for screen shots
<imbrandon> i hope you can make each of the areas bigger in NWN2
<Fujitsu> GOES!
<imbrandon> we tried to recreate a UO map in NWN and it was too small
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> http://www.nwn2.com  You have to watch the trailer if you can, it's pretty cool
<jsgotangco> the problem is, im pretty much addicted to anything pocket at the moment, i just bought clubhouse games for the DS
<imbrandon> bddebian, yea i just did, looks great
<bddebian> jsgotangco: My old eyes are too tired for something that small :-)
* jsgotangco watches the trailer
<micahcowan> bddebian, trailer looks very nice, but gives me no clue about how the game's gonna be...
<LaserJock> hmm, I've just never gotten into RPGs
<micahcowan> I love RPGs, but I'm not into the truly random (dice-based-like) fighting. Like NWN.
<bddebian> WTF?  You're not allowed into the Geek club then ;-P
<LaserJock> bddebian: no, I'm a chemist so I'm in the Nerd Club technically
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> micahcowan: There are some gameplay shots on gamespot.com
<zul> micahcowan: so no dungeons and dragons?
<LaserJock> nerds shun geeks and their obsession with fantasy and Star Trek conventions
<LaserJock> ;-)
<micahcowan> there're some gameplay shots on atari.com's site, too.
* bddebian HATES Star Trek
<bddebian> Well, the original anyway
<jsgotangco> ugghhh
<micahcowan> zul, not most of the D&D /videogames/, no. And, unfortunately, when D&D was really big and I would've had more opportunity to get into it, my fundy parents wouldn't let me even think of it. :)
<micahcowan> I think I'd really enjoy the actual pen-and-paper ones, provided it was a good team.
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: im thinking of getting one of those mindstorms NXT toys
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: what the heck is that?
<jsgotangco> http://mindstorms.lego.com/Overview/
<jsgotangco> heh
<zul> micahcowan: pitty
<bddebian> whoa
<micahcowan> yeah :(
* bddebian loves Lego's
<jsgotangco> yeah i grew up with them
<jsgotangco> it has a 32bit arm7
<micahcowan> I had a MERP set (Middle Earth Role Playing, based on ICE rules), but my parents got rid of that when they discovered the "Channeling" branch of magic
* micahcowan loves Legos too, but not most of the crap they sell nowadays...
<zul> my wife has a whole shitload of lego in the basement
<zul> playmobil was fun as a kid
<bddebian> Weebles man, weebles ;-P
* bddebian shows his age again
<imbrandon> lol
* Fujitsu hugs his H8/300 in the RCX (from the original Mindstorms set)
<imbrandon> tinker toys and lincon logs
<bddebian> And Erector sets, ROCK ON ;-P
<Fujitsu> Hahah, yes.
<imbrandon> lol yea
<bddebian> We need more sharp metal toys these days! ;-P
<imbrandon> with small screws and bolts
<imbrandon> survival of the fittest ?
<Burgwork> imbrandon: https://launchpad.net/people/mythtv-dev/+members <-- your team shoudl include ubuntu- in the same
<Burgwork> imbrandon: otherwise you are polluting the namespace of LP
<imbrandon> umm thats not my team, but sure
<imbrandon> ohh i did get added
<imbrandon> ok
<Burgwork> I had this argument with the telepathy team as well
<lifeless> chill out :)
<LaserJock> unless they want to work on mythtv in general
<Burgwork> lifeless: given LP is more than just ubuntu...
<Fujitsu> Burgwork: Not by much.
<Burgwork> regardless, we shouldn't shit all over the default namespace just cause we can
<Fujitsu> Of course.
<imbrandon> sure, but i doubt it was intentional "shitting" on it as there is no written guideline
<imbrandon> :)
<Burgwork> I suspect not
<jsgotangco> chill
<imbrandon> its all good jsgotangco
<imbrandon> no ones is riled up that i can tell
<Burgwork> hmm, the fun with text communication
<Burgwork> I am not annoyed, but both jsgotangco and lifeless assumed that
<imbrandon> anyhow Burgwork its a new team made by superm1 sugested by jono, so it can be changed easy tomarrow :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: did your mail appear in the archive?
<Burgwork> imbrandon: yep, figured that is why I would get it quickly
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i dident check again
<imbrandon> Burgwork, but i would write something up if you really feel strongly as i'm sure you dont have the time to police all new teams created
<Burgwork> I will blog about it
<imbrandon> ( not sarcasim , just a thought )
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ah, it's on gmane
<imbrandon> i wonder why the weirdness ajmitch
<ajmitch> why does everyone feel the need to nominate 95% of the active MOTUs?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, and LaserJock said they got it too
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i just regirgitated those that were already nominated
<LaserJock> ajmitch: 95% ?
<LaserJock> not hardly :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: maybe 100% then
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> there are 15 nominations out of 57
<ajmitch> I said active
<LaserJock> that's 26%
* bddebian hides
<ajmitch> who else is active that you've forgotten to nominate?
<LaserJock> I don't think anybody
<LaserJock> that was in fact my point
<ajmitch> so you really want just any MOTU to approve updates
<ajmitch> why don't you state that?
<LaserJock> I want to have 5-7 people from the active motus to do it
<LaserJock> and another 5-7 for motu-uvf
<LaserJock> 10-14 total
<LaserJock> which is about what we've got
<LaserJock> my main concern is that we seem to always turn to dholbach, slomo, siretart, and crimsun
<imbrandon> if you want _my__ nominations i say LaserJock, crimsun, ajmitch, sistopy, bddebian, me, slomo
<LaserJock> who are very busy with their own work
<ajmitch> suggest that then, instead of nominating the world & not making it clear that you want more than the initial 4 suggested
<LaserJock> I just don't feel it's a good idea to keep loading the same people with all the review tasks
<imbrandon> LaserJock, right
<ajmitch> but dholbach doesn't know that you feel that way
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ok i'll send a new mail right now
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well I actually didn't think people would accept the nominations
* ajmitch is tempted to not accept any nominations
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you're right, my email was somewhat flippant.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: then don't. I wasn't trying to force people to do it. I just wanted to say "Heh, we have capable people here"
<ajmitch> I didn't say you were forcing people to
<LaserJock> well, but maybe some might take it that way
<LaserJock> I guess I should have been more careful
<ajmitch> imbrandon: hobbsee will never forgive you
<ajmitch> or LaserJock
<ajmitch> neither of you nominated her
<LaserJock> well, I thought about it for sure, but I thought she'd be busy with school
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> she always finds time for MOTU
<TheMuso> That she does.
<TheMuso> :)
<imbrandon> ok new email sent with my thoughts
<ajmitch> yay
<TheMuso> F*** speakup!
<LaserJock> wahoo, I'm out ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ?
<imbrandon> tell me if you get this one
<LaserJock> imbrandon's new list of nominations
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I still haven't got your first one, so I blame my ISP's mail servers again
<imbrandon> well it was hobbsee | LaserJock , i made a choice
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> good choice
<ajmitch> confusing the matter again
<imbrandon> ajmitch, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29646/
<ajmitch> yay, I'm out too :)
<ajmitch> hey bmonty
<bmonty> hi ajmitch
<imbrandon> well you were in motu-uvf
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hi LaserJock!
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so is siretart, who is very busy with his thesis :)
<imbrandon> ahh ok, well i did my part , thus the last line , thoughts , flames .......
<imbrandon> :)
* ajmitch doesn't care
<imbrandon> i wonder whats up with it, the official archives dont have my first one either but some seem to get it as with
<imbrandon> gmaine etc
<imbrandon> gmane
* ajmitch wonders if it would have just been simpler to just have dholbach pick people
<imbrandon> probably
<imbrandon> i hate choosing
<imbrandon> how was the motu-uvf formed?
<ajmitch> dholbach picked people
<imbrandon> that probably is the way to go then
* ajmitch probably shouldn't have been in it
<LaserJock> it doesn't really matter I guess
<LaserJock> we might want to get a bit better at doing this stuff quickly
<Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalXConfiguration <--- any other tools I should add to this page?
<LaserJock> we've wasted quite a bit of time arguing the fine points of the SRU policy
<LaserJock> I'm probably the worst about that :(
<bmonty> Burgwork: how about making the use case of adding additional monitors be something more general
<ajmitch> "what colour should the bikeshed be?"
<Burgwork> bmonty: add more uses cases as needed
<imbrandon> Burgwork, looks good, infact i started some sax2 packages a while back as thats a godsend on suse
<Burgwork> imbrandon: but does the sax2 code duplicate the new input/output hotplug stuff in xorg?
<bmonty> I'll just slightly modify the one you have
<imbrandon> Burgwork, not sure
<imbrandon> i would have to look
<Burgwork> imbrandon: hence the issue. AFAICS, we need a simple dialog
<Burgwork> the x people are talking about killing xorg.conf entirely
<ajmitch> I think I'll hide from MOTU stuff until UDS :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: interesting, I detested sax2. it was always messing up my X configuration. maybe it was just me
<LaserJock> ajmitch: heh
<imbrandon> well the one reason i like sax2 over hte others is 1) easy 3d accell enabling and 2) it can use a working X server for display but dosent require one, it will outpout to FB/VESA if needed
<Burgwork> I understand
<imbrandon> e.g. if X is totaly broke
<Burgwork> the latter is solved by the bulletproof-X spec
<Burgwork> please see the outstanding issues section
<Burgwork> hence why I favour system-config-xfree86
<Burgwork> it is bold and simple
<imbrandon> well in that case you only have basicly 2 options , 1) write something becosue the existing stuff wont work 2) fix xorg-edit to use qt/gtk
<Burgwork> how is that different than what we have now?
<imbrandon> right in that case it will be duped in guidance
<Burgwork> I am confused by your statement
<Burgwork> guidance is qt
<imbrandon> right
<Burgwork> we need an Ubuntu X config tool
<Burgwork> not a Kubuntu one
<LaserJock> why would it be DE specific?
<LaserJock> that seems sort of odd to me
<Burgwork> because QT is not in the default install of Ubuntu
<bmonty> Burgwork: I modified the use case to be more general to multiple monitors instead of just two monitors
<imbrandon> LaserJock, and because the ubuntu and kubuntu config screens are quite diffrent, you dont want one tool standing out
<Burgwork> sounds good
<Toadstool> hey there
<LaserJock> hmm, I was thinking it would be outside of the Gnome and KDE config systems
<Burgwork> LaserJock: Xorg is already starting to deal with autoconfiguration
<LaserJock> like for Fluxbox or XFCE people, etc
<Burgwork> we need a GUI to drive that
<LaserJock> a wxpython GUI is no good?
<Burgwork> not in main
<Burgwork> nor does it handle QT/KDE
<LaserJock> I thought wxwidgets were DE neutral
<LaserJock> but nevermind
<Burgwork> yes, but is not in main and has security issues
<Burgwork> actually, wxwidgets is GTK on LInux, Cocoa on Mac and native on Windows
<LaserJock> Tk? :-)
<Burgwork> ugh
<Burgwork> you cannot be serious
<LaserJock> only a little bit
<Burgwork> if you insist on Tk, I will make you package this Tcl code my company just threw over the wall... :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you don't know how much Burgwork loves Tk?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: oh, I do
<Burgwork> if I ran a desktop of nothing but Tk, I might reconsider
<Burgwork> anyway, I need to go home
<ajmitch> bye
<Burgwork> is 7pm
<imbrandon> later
<Fujitsu> Bye, Burgwork.
<LaserJock> I just think it's kinda silly to have to do both qt and gtk interfaces for something that is DE neutral
<LaserJock> but I think that about a lot of things so I'm pretty useless
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sad, but that's the way a lot of things are
<imbrandon> well i'm kinda confused on why it needs to support qt/kde if its for ubuntu
<imbrandon> as he said guidance works for kubuntu
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<LaserJock> so sort of the adept route
<ajmitch> imbrandon: mainly because it's not fun to support 2 different code bases & feature sets
<imbrandon> ajmitch, right but kubuntu is likely to support guidance as its pretty tied into KDE
<imbrandon> and all of our other config stuff is in guidance
<imbrandon> think gconf
<imbrandon> adept is looking for a new dev team anyhow /me sugests ksynaptic be updated personaly
<LaserJock> I just use synaptic :/
<imbrandon> well ksynaptic is/was part of that project but it is unmaintained now in svn
<imbrandon> and so is adept ( mornfall gave it up i guess )
<imbrandon> soooo
<Fujitsu> Sooo you're stuffed!
<imbrandon> basicly
<jsgotangco> there is no such thing as stuffed in the pursuit of world domination
* LaserJock thinks jsgotangco needs to stop playing the RPGs and get back in the real world ;-)
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: i'm actually thinking of retiring for a while and explore the other side of the fence
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: windows?
<jsgotangco> nahh
<jsgotangco> although current work requires me too as well
<jsgotangco> its just so hard to balance things lately
<imbrandon> osx ?
<jsgotangco> more like go back to supporting hp ux
<LaserJock> oh, that's sad
<Fujitsu> Eek.
<jsgotangco> digitization of media companies is one thing free software hasn't penetrated yet
<LaserJock> interesting
<jsgotangco> working again in a big company with national relevance made me realize we are still not there
<jsgotangco> or probably in my local space
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'm the only desktop Linux user in my department I think
<LaserJock> lots of OS X
<LaserJock> but FLOSS means nothing to people here
<imbrandon> time to go raid the candy dish of whats left, brb
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm eying my stash
* Fujitsu remembers back to when he was in Canada... No Halloween here!
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: over here, we are basically shielded from BSA stuff because we declare so much of software licenses there is very little incentive to look into FLOSS
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: but we have underutilised hardware and virtualization is what we are eyeing
<tritium> woohoo, finally got mythtv working with my HD card on edgy with mythtv 0.20 :)
<imbrandon> tritium, cool
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, no halloween? ouch
<bddebian> tritium:!!
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It's a North American thing!
* imbrandon stole all the nerds out of the candy dish
<tritium> imbrandon: I'm very pleased.  A few bugs with mythweb I'll take a look at.  Looks like the 0.20a patch hasn't been applied yet.
<tritium> bddebian!!!
<imbrandon> tritium, probably not as 0.20 made it in after uvf
<imbrandon> that was one of my final uploads
<tritium> imbrandon: yeah, I saw that.  Many thanks to you.
<imbrandon> np, thanks superm, he did the majority of the work, i just did some package cleanup
<imbrandon> :)
<tritium> Very cool.
<LaserJock> tritium!!
<tritium> Hey LaserJock :)
<imbrandon> man i'm gonna be on a sugar rush for a few hours now
<imbrandon> tooo many nerds
<imbrandon> :)
<tritium> You all are so friendly to me, considering I'm inactive :)
<imbrandon> heh
* bddebian lights a fire under tritium ;-)
<tritium> heh, not like the fire my boss already lit
<imbrandon> they seem to be good for that
<ajmitch> bddebian: I haven't seen any uploads from you lately
<bddebian> I know, I suck :-(
<jsgotangco> because he's been playing too much games
<bddebian> I wish
<jsgotangco> hehe
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia
<jsgotangco> welcome back Burgundavia
<imbrandon> debuild -S -saheya Burgundavia
<imbrandon> err
<Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco,a ajmitch
<Burgundavia> it be cold today
<Burgundavia> umm?
* Fujitsu attacks imbrandon.
<Fujitsu> No packaging our Burgundavia!
<imbrandon> lol
<Burgundavia> I got just fine without packaging thanks
<Burgundavia> the ladies like it better that way
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> nearly 18K open bugs
<ajmitch> we're doing well
<Burgundavia> not really
<Burgundavia> it was under 4k at one point
<ajmitch> well the number of bugs filed per week seems to be rising
<imbrandon> as with the number of users
<imbrandon> i'm sure
<Burgundavia> number seems pretty stable, according to carthik
<Burgundavia> http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/#week
<Burgundavia> rate of rise, rather
<ajmitch> hard to see since that's only over a week
<Burgundavia> bloody LP and their bloody inability to produce useful stats
<imbrandon> 1000 new bugs opened in one week?
* bddebian totally SUCKED on bug work for Edgy :'-(
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yes.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Very easily.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: hence why I think the rate of bug filign has gone up
<imbrandon> holly fskin hell, how are less than 100 people supose to keep up with that
<Burgundavia> gnome is seeing somewhat similar, due to their new bug crashing stuff
<ajmitch> imbrandon: we don't keep up, that's the problem
<imbrandon> thats every developer for ubuntu doing ~1.8 bugs a day, every day, and no regressions
<imbrandon> man o man
<imbrandon> that sucks
<Fujitsu> We could really do with more triagers :/
<LaserJock> we could do with more people who can forward upstream and/or fix the bugs
<Fujitsu> A load of those bugs are dupes, I'm sure, and they probably don't get marked as such for some time, or ever.
<Burgundavia> http://mces.blogspot.com/2006/10/bugzilla-points-boost.html
<Burgundavia> take a peak at the top closer this week
<LaserJock> yeah, I saw that
<Fujitsu> Wow.
<Burgundavia> LP lacks all the nice automated tools like that
<Burgundavia> such as backtrace comparison, etc.
<Burgundavia> in other words: Malone sucks
<Fujitsu> And it makes it very hard to create them.
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: by making it closed source? yes
<jsgotangco> we're drinking more than we can from the firehose
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Even though it is closed, it'd be a whole lot easier if it had a clean machine-parseable bug display.
<Burgundavia> an xml-rpc interface?'
<LaserJock> for instance
<Fujitsu> It has one, although only for basic bug filing.
<jsgotangco> it has one
<Burgundavia> it is almost time for another "LP is hurting Ubuntu" blog post
<LaserJock> I don't think it's very useful from what I've heard
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It isn't.
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: How long since the last one?
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: couple of months, maybe a year
<LaserJock> well, mostly I have issues because I don't want to go out and write stuff (like Fujitsu and I did) when it really should be included in LP
<Fujitsu> I love the very complete XML-RPC interface: https://help.launchpad.net/MaloneXMLRPC
<LaserJock> if we are going to use the thing then we should be able to make it better
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: opensource 101
<Fujitsu> I don't like having to write stuff that uses html2text, grep, sed, awk and cut to get sense out of http://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/+packagebugs
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> I mean, I know the LP guys are working hard
<LaserJock> but LP is not terribly helpful for developers
<Fujitsu> There's been very little Malone improvement since I've been around.
<LaserJock> it seems to have cool features
<Burgundavia> but the LP guys have been working hard for 2 years
<Burgundavia> without really making anybody happy
<LaserJock>  but it seems awfully hard to use
<Burgundavia> a lot of the UI blame can be laid at Marks door
<LaserJock> I wonder if it's got some fundamental design flaws
<Burgundavia> I think it has some nasty underbits too
<Fujitsu> Underbits?
<Burgundavia> like the fact that they have to take it down to update it
<Fujitsu> Yes, that's bad.
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: like underwear, but for programs. Underwear you cannot change with killing yourself
<Fujitsu> Like, a few hours downtime a couple of days before release.
<jsgotangco> take everything down even
<imbrandon> well everything depends on it
<Fujitsu> No Soyuz, no bugs, no wiki editing.
<jsgotangco> you can't even edit the wiki
<imbrandon> ( not a good thing )
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It isn't a bad thing, if it is reliable enough.
<imbrandon> well you cant tell me that the way they do it they cant have another system loaded with the new code ( like staging ) ready to go, swap the boxes, and use the current one for the next rollout
<imbrandon> no physicaly but you know what i mean
<Burgundavia> at what point do we (the community) say to Canonical: We refuse to your close source tools. Make them open source or we will setup our own
<ajmitch> imbrandon: because of database changes - they'd need to migrate all changes made during that downtime
<imbrandon> wow it still has scema changes
<jsgotangco> lunch brb
<imbrandon> schema*
<Fujitsu> With a bit of trickery, they could take a copy of the production database, then sync it somehow with only a few minutes downtime.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yes.
<minghua> Burgundavia: all the community that needs to use LP frequently being?  (I am thinking only the ~50 MOTUs)
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: It's getting close, we're drowning in bugs and stuff.
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, yea i'm kinda of that mindset too but again we're streched thin
<Burgundavia> us, those of us in this channel, etc.
<Burgundavia> the really core people
<minghua> I surely won't object boycotting LP if there is an alternative
<Burgundavia> the issue is, if it gets public, it gets really really messy
<minghua> (but I am far from a core people, of course)
<Burgundavia> we need to sit Mark down and say "We are fed up. This is what we want"
<Burgundavia> and we want dates, not promises
<nixternal> 5 more days and you can do that ;)
<imbrandon> it might be a good subject for MTV
<Burgundavia> nixternal: no, actually, I can't
<imbrandon> but not "officialy"
<Burgundavia> I am not going to be at MTV
<nixternal> oh ya, you and are are stuck
<nixternal> the feds are saying no to me ditching school on their dime
<Burgundavia> it also needs to be a gropu thing
<Fujitsu> This needs to be brought up with Mark in the near future.
<Fujitsu> Can we collect a large group of people?
<Burgundavia> certainly
<Fujitsu> I'm sure some bug triagers would join us.
<Burgundavia> it should be a private thing, however
<Burgundavia> we don't want it splashed all over slashdot, etc.
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: it's not something you want to use to shame people
<Burgundavia> no, far from it
<minghua> yeah, sure be kept private
<Fujitsu> This could be absolutely disastrous if it goes wrong or gets out to the FOSS media...
<Burgundavia> it is a family dispute, it should be kept private
<nixternal> tell fabbione to wipe this log from http space ;)
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> how many other times have we bitched about LP behind the scenes?
<ajmitch> every few days
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Many, many hundreds!
<nixternal> Fujitsu: you remember the night where my username and password got posted in this chan?
<imbrandon> whats is the resoning for keeping LP closed anyhow ?
<Fujitsu> nixternal: Yes, you got that obliterated?
<nixternal> you would be amazed by how many people have tried to use it aginst that server
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: unknown
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Oh no, not this again :/
<Fujitsu> nixternal: Ouch.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: competitive advantage
<nixternal> no it didn't..i contacte him as well
<nixternal> no damage done..that was a 1 use password and got changed
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: More frequent than that, and the frequency is increasing.
<imbrandon> that seems strange as floss is about competition
<nixternal> i thought that once it was "complete" that it was going to be open source?
<ajmitch> nixternal: funny
<LaserJock> yeah, but I'm starting to feel like the Fedora guys a bit
<nixternal> kind of sounds like this strip club by o'hare airport..they keep it under construction so the gov't doesn't close it down
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> it has been under construction for more than 15 years that i know of
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: How?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: they complain about just being Red Hat's guinea pigs
<Burgundavia> right
<nixternal> im not feeling the fedora guys...kde is responsive and fast in Kubuntu, unlike it is for them
<Burgundavia> the only issue we have with caonical is LP
<Burgundavia> everything else works fairly well
<Fujitsu> Canonical is great, other than LP, yes.
<Fujitsu> And LP could be great.
<Burgundavia> LP could seriously rock
<LaserJock> well, here's the reason I haven't made a big complaint about LP
<Fujitsu> It could really, really rock.
<LaserJock> even if it was open source I'm not sure it would move much faster
<nixternal> LaserJock: my friends and family pretty much say the same thing...like they have us brainwashed to work for free...maybe a couple of more kicks to their head they will understand
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: yes, yes it would
<nixternal> my dad is getting close, as he is sick of the "closed standards" in his line of work
<Burgundavia> how many python devs work on Ubuntu?
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: A lot, although they're often tied up with Ubuntu stuff.
<LaserJock> yeah, but that adds a ton more development work that maybe should be going into Ubuntu and not LP
<Burgundavia> it would be modularized, to break off each piece
<nixternal> do a /who in #ubuntu-devel im sure you can get an accurate count ;)
<LaserJock> I mean I'd love to see it opened up
<LaserJock> but that doesn't mean I'm would be working on it
<Burgundavia> it is the kind of thing that would attract people
<LaserJock> yeah
<nixternal> heh, even if it was opened, i still wouldn't be able to do any more with it ;)
<Fujitsu> LP is a big turn off for some people, I know.
<LaserJock> I'm just not sure it is built in a fashion that would allow it to be easily opened
<Fujitsu> DDs complain about Ubuntu, because its infrastructure is non-free.
<Burgundavia> that is Canonical's problem, not ours
<Burgundavia> if they build it monolithic, they get to pay the price
<Fujitsu> Correct, Burgundavia.
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> I just think it could really throw us off course to have a big infrastructure revolution
<Burgundavia> well, if Canonical says no, then we have an issue
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Not really. We just use Bugzilla instead. Problem solved.
<Burgundavia> but we need to get our bugs out of LP
<Burgundavia> and what about specs?
<bddebian> viva la revoluccion
<imbrandon> and soyuz
<Burgundavia> soyuz is the one we really can't replace easily
<ajmitch> unless you go back to dak
<Fujitsu> Bugs out of LP means maybe a couple of hours of script writing, then programatically iterate through the bugs. Not difficult.
<Burgundavia> regardless, if enough of us demand a date, I think we can get it
<Fujitsu> Yes, I was thinking dak. It's not that bad.
<Fujitsu> Maybe.
<Burgundavia> Mark has coasted on teh community being pliant
<LaserJock> forking LP functionality would be a disaster for the community I think
<Fujitsu> I guess they're really not going to like it if we revolt.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: LP is a disaster for the community at the moment, anyway.
<LaserJock> no it's not
<LaserJock> it's not ideal for sure
<LaserJock> but it isn't *that* bad
<LaserJock> people are using it
<LaserJock> and it is functional
<LaserJock> it's just not the way we want it
<Burgundavia> but we are stuck
<LaserJock> having things like Rosseta and Soyuz and Blueprint are pretty cool
<LaserJock> Malone needs work for sure
<Fujitsu> Soyuz isn't great, but it's not bad.
<joejaxx> what is wrong with launchpad?
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: closed source
<LaserJock> but saying something like "We're going to use our own BTS" is a bit overboard IMO
<LaserJock> but I highly doubt it would come to that
<Burgundavia> yes, for now
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: have you met Mark?
<LaserJock> yes
<Fujitsu> If Canonical is uncooperative, we have little choice.
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: you mean so people cannot go around developing their own
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: we can use LP
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: What about Mark?
<chillywilly> trac makes for a nice bug tracker/dev tool
<chillywilly> and its python
<chillywilly> could use some work
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: no, it means a good percentage of our infrastructure is source we cannot see and it is hurting us
<Burgundavia> chillywilly: doesn't really scale, from what I understand
<chillywilly> why?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: We can use LP, but we'll die rather quickly. We're drowning in bugs, and the bug-rate is increasing.
<chillywilly> seems like every project and their mother uses it
<Burgundavia> not built to deal with a distro
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I don't see what that has to do with LP
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: what project is that?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: and I don't think we are exactly we're going to die
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Can you think of any infrastructure that /isn't/ closed?
<Burgundavia> our wiki
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: ?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It has to do with LP, because with an open-source solution we might have a chance to develop things like Conseil properly, and have a much better interface for bug triaging. I hate the LP web interface, and it'd be a whole lot easier to triage if there was a non-HTML interface.
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Where did I mention this project?
<joejaxx> 22:10 < Fujitsu> LaserJock: We can use LP, but we'll die rather quickly. We're drowning in bugs, and the bug-rate is increasing.
<Fujitsu> LP == Launchpad
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: so the bug rate for launchpad is incresing?
<joejaxx> launchpad itself?
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Oh, I mean Ubuntu.
<Burgundavia> the bug rate for LP is going up to
<joejaxx> ah ok
<LaserJock> yes, but an increase in bugs is to be expected
<Burgundavia> yes, but bugs from 2 years ago are not being resolved
<joejaxx> so what you two are proposing is that launchpad should be open source to aid in fixing it?
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure why an increase in bug reports = LP must go
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: it isn
<Burgundavia> LP must go
<Burgundavia> it is LP needs to adapt
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: A lot more than two people...
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but threatening forking and stuff like that doesn't seem helpful to me
<minghua> joejaxx: please read backscroll
<minghua> (or logs)
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: we cannot fork a closed source product
<LaserJock> well, forking functionality is what I mean
<Burgundavia> ah
<LaserJock> having 2 BTSs
<Burgundavia> that would be a "Canonical has refused all sane pleas" option
<nixternal> [22:14:07]  <Burgundavia> yes, but bugs from 2 years ago are not being resolved
<joejaxx> minghua: i like to have things clarified
<nixternal> you aren't joking there
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: I don't believe that refusal is too unlikely.
<nixternal> and don't try to mess with those bugs either, as for some reason people hold those old bugs near and dear to their heart
<Burgundavia> nixternal: I am speaking about LP bugs from 2 years ago
<nixternal> well, im speaking of all bugs from 2 years ago
<Burgundavia> like the "KDE, GNOME and other upstreams hate Rosetta" one
<Burgundavia> or the more recent "Debian choose pootle over Rosetta" one
<nixternal> well, Rosetta needs work, but it has a great foundation no doubt...it has been somewhat nice to the doc project, although mdke is on their arses like white on rice come translation time
<Burgundavia> yes, Rosetta itself is nice
<Burgundavia> but it doesn't play well with others
<nixternal> no it doesn't unfortunately
<Burgundavia> but because that doesn't really hurt Canonical, it isn't a priority
<Burgundavia> it does hurt the community, so it would be fixed
<lifeless> how does it not play nice ? [what would make it 'nicer'] 
<nixternal> it might be time that they either start working on opening and fixing what we have (LP), or start looking for better solutions, if there are any
<Burgundavia> lifeless: the most common compliant is issues of bad translations being overwritten
<nixternal> was their any reasoning when they switched from bugzilla to lp in the first place?
<Burgundavia> s/bad/good/
<minghua> I honestly don't seen how Rosetta is nice
<Burgundavia> web-based translation is nice
<joejaxx> The developers have stated that they aim to eventually release it under an open source license.[1] 
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: they have said that for 2 years with absolutely no movement
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Eventually being the keyword.
<minghua> so far I haven't seen a single Debian maintainer or upstream author happy with Rosetta
<nixternal> yes
<Burgundavia> no timeframes, nothing
<LaserJock> nixternal: because Canonical wanted to build a complete distro infrastructure
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: i see
<nixternal> i already said that, somewhere is stated "once it is completed"
<nixternal> it is just odd that they build a "closed" infrastructure
<Fujitsu> nixternal: I've never seen that, and I've looked long and hard for any extra information on this.
<nixternal> see, there is a lot that Canonical holds from the community, which isn't that nice
<Burgundavia> I think Mark's grand plan was to sell services based on LP
<Burgundavia> which he may be doing
<imbrandon> if thats the case then it will be 2008 before its opened
<joejaxx> https://launchpad.net/faq
<Burgundavia> lifeless: other issues include getting timely updates of pots into Rosetta, how unknowns translate
<joejaxx> that has alot of answers
<joejaxx> that link
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: that faq has been there since 2004
<imbrandon> joejaxx, we know the faq, that dosent change the complaints
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: imbrandon no i mean
<joejaxx> it says you can contribute and have access to the code
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: I have been around since 2004. I know all about  Canonicals "statements"
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: i did not mean it like that :(
<nixternal> this weekend at our LUG event..we had a guy who writes code for Hospitals that tracks everything the hospital does, from patients, to medication, to you name it...it is huge, and it was quite nice (i actually sold him on bzr)...he is going to release it open source here eventually...it would be neat to use some of his ideas in a complete system
<nixternal> the ajax trickery was pretty neat
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: That would imply an NDA.
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: that statement about "helping" opensource LP would require an NDA
<Burgundavia> no thanks
<joejaxx> oh alright
<joejaxx> i understand
<Burgundavia> you would be foolish to sign such an NDA
<Fujitsu> Very foolish.
<joejaxx> i have a question though
<Fujitsu> Requiring an NDA to help in an open-sourcing effort. How ironic.
<joejaxx> what is this talk on there about certain parts being open source?
<nixternal> "distribution management code, which is part of of the service that Canonical provides to other companies that make their own distributions."
<joejaxx> already*
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: some calendar code is apparently already freed
<Burgundavia> never seen it though
<nixternal> heh ya, and now they are going to remove the calendar, if they haven't already
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: The calendar got turned off a couple of months back, and I've never heard of the code.
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: oh ok never have I which is why I asked
<nixternal> yup, the calendar is gone
<nixternal> hehe
<Burgundavia> lovely, they open source the code that gets shunted out
<joejaxx> well
<Burgundavia> if it was just me, I wouldn't much care, because I am never going to code a line of LP
<joejaxx> if people feel so strongly about it
<Burgundavia> but because I know there are lots of smart python hackers that can dig in, I do care
<joejaxx> why not create an agenda spec page?
<joejaxx> i do not know what you call it exactly
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: That is suicide, and isn't going to happen.
<joejaxx> when you want something to change and you talk about it
<Burgundavia> because we want to do it quietly and politely
<Burgundavia> so it does end up on Slashdot "Ubuntu developers revolt"
<Burgundavia> doesn't, rather
<Fujitsu> Speaking of quietly, may it be advisable to move into a non-logged channel at some point?
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: yeah
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: at this point it si grumbling, not action
<Admiral_Chicago> i doubt their will ever be a time when our community has to "revolt"
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: my point was: was there a way to address your concerns
<joejaxx> that is what i meant
<joejaxx> :)
<Fujitsu> Admiral_Chicago: It has reached that time...
<Fujitsu> (or is close to it)
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: I respect your opinion, but I have to say, I have been around awhile. Seen all the pretty words
<Burgundavia> now I want action
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: i was just asksing if there was a way to address your concern
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: yes that is what i mean
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: I think a lot of us do.
<joejaxx> meant
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: i'm sure there are more than enough people willing to hear you rproblems and work to resolve them
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: is there a way to let people know that lot of people feel that way
<Burgundavia> I will mull it over
<Burgundavia> first I need to get the UWN out
<chillywilly> write an "open letter"and have people sign it....it has worked great for the linux kernel people....j/k
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: write a blog about it and link me up to it
<Burgundavia> right
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: may i pm you?
<Burgundavia> sure
<imbrandon> freeflying, what is CJK stuff? i kinda missed the point of you email
<LaserJock> imbrandon: Chinese Japanese Korean
<lifeless> imbrandon: chinese japanese korean
<imbrandon> ahh ok /me headdesks
<Chandu> ajmitch, hi
<Chandu> ajmitch, good morning
<Burgundavia> hey Chandu
<Chandu> Burgundavia, hi
<joejaxx> hello Chandu :)
<Chandu> joejaxx, hello
<Chandu> hey Sorry .. I will catch you later ... I have called for the meeting .. I have to move .. Bye
<joejaxx> Chandu: Good Day
<LaserJock> darn it, why can't I make a simple diagram
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: did you get my pm earlier?
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: yep
<LaserJock> well, inkscape and dia aren't helping  me :/
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: good
<joejaxx> LaserJock: Visio! :D
<joejaxx> haha
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I'm this ---|  |--- close to doing it in Office
<LaserJock> but I'm sticking with inkscape for the moment
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :)
<minghua> LaserJock: I would think for diagram dia is a better choice
<minghua> but then I haven't use neither much
<LaserJock> I can't get dia to do anything useful
<Lathiat> 13:05 < Farnaby> Lathiat, I have tried that, more then once. Its stuck on BioF
<Lathiat> 13:06 < Farnaby> sorry lathiat, went to smoke to try and get a bit less pissed off.
<Lathiat> i love it
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ping
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: you know, there are worse bug trackers
<Burgundavia> like the sf.net one
<LaserJock> ugg, I have never gotten along well with that one
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Pong.
<Fujitsu> (was doing a maths practice exam)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: did you send me the script to do the MOTU Science bug list?
<LaserJock> I saw links to your pages
<LaserJock> but no script
<Fujitsu> True, I'll send it to you shortly, currently talking to upstream upstream.
<LaserJock> k, no rush
<dholbach> good morning
<Gloubiboulga> hello dholbach
<LaserJock> guten Morgen
<dholbach> hey LaserJock, hey Gloubiboulga
<minghua> I am nominated for motu-sru by sistpoty?!
<StevenK> minghua: I think * has been nominated for motu-sru.
<StevenK> Except for me, it seems. :-P
<minghua> StevenK: you are there :-)
* StevenK looks for himself.
<minghua> (even in the "reduced" list)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yes, you got nominated
* Hobbsee didnt
* StevenK had no idea. :-)
<minghua> Hobbsee: you got nominated too
<StevenK> Heh
<minghua> I think now it's more of a question who is going to accept the nominatio
<Hobbsee> oh?
<minghua> nomination*
<Hobbsee> i didnt see that
<lifeless> where is the list ?
* StevenK pokes launchpad.net
<minghua> lifeless: on ubuntu-motu mailing list
<StevenK> Ah.
<minghua> dholbach said the LP team consists of only temporary members
* poningru wonders if lifeless has any affilation with timeless on moznet
<lifeless> hmm, whack, I'm not in that list.
<lifeless> I must fix that
<dholbach> and it'd be nice if you all could follow up with who you think would be a good fit for the job
<StevenK> I wonder if the datacentre is having issues.
<Hobbsee> heh.  i did get nominated.
<StevenK> I can't reach {lists,www}.ubuntu.com or LP from here.
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> there seems to be a routing problem
<StevenK> Neat.
<sivang> morning
<Hobbsee> hey sivang
<sivang> hey Hobbsee !
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/all.html
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/bugs.html
<Fujitsu> Very good :)
<LaserJock> wahoo, goodies from fabbione
<Fujitsu> ?
* Fujitsu pokes *.ubuntu.com and launchpad.net
<Lathiat> yeh seems deadish
<Fujitsu> Yes, I think the datacenter has vanished somewhat :/
<Lathiat> dies just inside level3's network here
<StevenK> Here as well.
<StevenK> RIP datacentre
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: he just email -devel with some feisty info
<crimsun> (I can access 'em fine)
<Fujitsu> Ah.
* Fujitsu looks.
<LaserJock> yeah, *.u.c and LP are fine for me
<StevenK> crimsun: Does your route touch ae-1-0.bbr2.London2.Level3.net or as-0-0.bbr1.London2.Level3.net?
<LaserJock> hot dog, I broke the 1 million mark for karma
<crimsun> well dang, this place blocks trace*
<Lathiat> StevenK: mine hits as-0-0.bbr1.London2.Level3.net
<Lathiat> hrma ctually both
<Lathiat> appear on that hop
<StevenK> Yes, and that's the hop my trace dies at.
<Fujitsu> My last is bbr2.
<LaserJock> what are  you using to tell?
<Fujitsu> traceroute
<StevenK> mtr
<Lathiat> wee saw a spiek of dropped packets just then
<Lathiat> im using mtr
<Lathiat> mtr is the best tool ever invented
<StevenK> Lathiat: There's a few others. netcat? :-P
<Lathiat> well, yeh
<Lathiat> mtr still rocks :>
<StevenK> True.
* StevenK has a Networking Swiss Army tool.
<StevenK> netcat, tcpdump, wireshark, mtr, ping ...
<LaserJock> everything looks find when I do mtr launchpad.net
<Fujitsu> A lot of my stuff to bbr1.SanJose goes missing.
<StevenK> LaserJock: But do you see either of those two in your trace?
<Fujitsu> Ah, seems to have stablised now.
<LaserJock> StevenK: yeah
<StevenK> What the?!
<Fujitsu> Lathiat: Where on the planet are you?
<Lathiat> Fujitsu: perth, western australia
<Fujitsu> jamesh (another Aussie) confirms that he can't access it from his machine, but can from other machines...
<Fujitsu> OK, seems to be fairly Australian.
<LaserJock> lots of packet loss from ae-1-55.bbr1.SanJose1.Level3.net
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Same.
<LaserJock> but a ton at the DC it seem
<LaserJock> for gangotri.ubuntu.com I have ~ 33% packet loss
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what it means
<Fujitsu> Is there anybody who can't access them, and is outside Oz?
<Burgundavia> I am having big issues with 7:  ae-1-0.bbr2.London2.Level3.net (212.187.128.45)      asymm  8 151.856ms
<Lathiat> hrm works from a US colo
<Lathiat> still going out level3
<Lathiat> but im seeing packte loss there
<StevenK> It fails for me from my US colo.
<StevenK> With the same two routers, damn it all.
<Fujitsu> It's OK from my ServerPronto box.
<Burgundavia> might be a transatlantic cable issue
<Burgundavia> telecity.net is having issues for me as well
<Lathiat> uh
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> somethings boogered
<Lathiat> http://www.internettrafficreport.com/australia.htm
<Lathiat> that said i get all the way to level3 in london
<Lathiat> weirdly
<Lathiat> reverse path may differ perhaps
<Fujitsu> Quite possibly...
<StevenK> That's an interesting question.
<Burgundavia> Lathiat: I did there as well
<Burgundavia> die, rather
<Burgundavia> global trend appears to be down
<Fujitsu> From my ServerPronto box, there's no packet loss at all :S
<Burgundavia> where is serverpronto?
<jsgmobile> Website?
<Fujitsu> US, I believe.
<Burgundavia> yet Lathiat and I are both having issues
<jsgmobile> I cant even get it
<Burgundavia> LaserJock is also having some
<StevenK> And I am, too.
<StevenK> From here and a US colo site.
<jsgmobile> Even LP
<Fujitsu> All Australians seem to be stuffed, and some others.
<jsgmobile> Black wednesday hehe
<Fujitsu> OK, I get different results from imbrandon's box.
<LaserJock> well, I tried from this machine and tiber
<Fujitsu> ae-1-100.ebr1.NewYork1.Level3.net
<Fujitsu> That's the last hop.
<LaserJock> and it's all good
<Fujitsu> Massive packet loss in Level3's Chicago area.
<Burgundavia> I go straight Seattle --> London and die there
<jsgmobile> I didnt do anything i swear
<LaserJock> I go from San Jose
<Burgundavia> jsgmobile: we blame you for everything. World hunger, the darfur and this outage. all of equal world problems, all caused by you
<jsgmobile> Nice its all caused by me logging on to irc on my phone
<StevenK> Ah ha!
<StevenK> Get him!
* LaserJock grabs jsgmobile's phone and runs away
<Burgundavia> by logging into with your phone, you have overloaded some tower elsewhere, where somebody is loading food for the darfur. Simultaneously, that has taken load off another cell, which has allowed the arms dealer to start loading arms for the darfur. By connecting to this irc server, you have overloaded the power circuits, taking the entire eastern seaboard and europe off teh net
<Burgundavia> there, see? it si quite simple
<jsgmobile> Ooppss
<Burgundavia> wonder if there is a movie those three lines?
<LaserJock> easily
<LaserJock> "Save Darfur ... from Jerome"
<LaserJock> I think we could get Tom Cruise to play jsgmobile
<LaserJock> or maybe Brad Pitt, he'd go for that
<Burgundavia> always partial to matt damon, myself
<Burgundavia> tom cruise as mark?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Burgundavia> they are both crazy enough :)
<LaserJock> I wonder if Brad Pitt could play mako?
<LaserJock> but for sure jdub would have to play himself
<Burgundavia> yep
<sivang> what movie are you talking about?
<Burgundavia> jsgmobile causes world hunger and arms smuggling by logging into irc via his mobile phone
<Burgundavia> that is the working title
<Burgundavia> "IRC on the phone!" <-- new title
<LaserJock> sounds good
<antinobody> That all seems too plausible and simple to be a successful movie
<LaserJock> oh, we'll have to throw in some twist and turns
<Burgundavia> no, it is "high concept"
<Burgundavia> explained in a single sentence
<LaserJock> possiblely and Ubuntu love triangle
<jsgmobile> Just gimme a jet anf a car in the movie
<LaserJock> jsgmobile falls for Edubuntu, but is secretly meeting up with Kubuntu when she's not looking
<LaserJock> in the end he must choose between the one he loves... and the one he loves to hate :/
* Burgundavia notes how pretty much there has been no ontopic (for -motu) discussion of Ubuntu at all this evening
<antinobody> I see, and in a jealous rage, Edubuntu exposes jsgmobile's evil phone IRCing ways to the public
<Fujitsu> :O
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: this is work!
<LaserJock> gotta keep the creative MOTU juices flowing :-)
<crimsun> yeah, we're all MOTUed out thanks to the raging MOTUaholic's mailing list rampage ;)
<jsgmobile> Yeah this is blog worty
<antinobody> Whatever it is, its not me doing advanced calc homework, so I'm happy
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: LP-discussion has been on-topic for a while now.
<Burgundavia> yes, I suppose so
<LaserJock> crimsun: I'd hardly call it a rampage
<LaserJock> :-)
<crimsun> :)
<LaserJock> although I did nominate like 10 people and throw a big todo list out there
<LaserJock> :(
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: the rest of us are burned out, bitter old men (or women)
<antinobody> Hey, without all the crazy MOTU e-mails, I'd've completely forgotten about this MOTU thing
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm not seeing any \o/ 's yet in response to my email ;-)
<LaserJock> only crimsun throwing another big one on the stack
<jsgmobile> Its hard to do it if your screen is 320x240
<jsgmobile> \o/
<antinobody> I'm not going to pretend I know what \o/ means
<highvoltage> I haven't seen the mail yet, but \0/ !
<jsgmobile> Its just a representation of a guy cheering
<LaserJock> antinobody: it's somebody going "Yay!"
<crimsun> hey now, I did say I was crazy.
<crimsun> err, well, insane.
<LaserJock> crimsun: insane
<LaserJock> but a very good point none the less
<antinobody> imbrandon is the only individual who's wiki page is listed under CategoryMOTU.  I'll assume that means that he is the embodiment of the group
<crimsun> correct.
<LaserJock> haha
<StevenK> I don't think I like that.
<crimsun> (crap, have we just locked ourselves into a crazed KDE world?)
<LaserJock> I think BddebianIsAGod is the embodiment of the group ;-)
<LaserJock> bddebian does all the work and we get to watch :-)
<StevenK> crimsun: With flash and beryl everywhere
<LaserJock> crimsun: ?
<dholbach> _o/ _o_ \o_ \o/
<crimsun> LaserJock: jesting over his Kubuntu association
<LaserJock> it's the Macarena
<Burgundavia> we had better nuke it from orbit, just to be sure
<Burgundavia> KDE, that is
<StevenK> I will only condone that if they make Gnome Launch Box not suck first.
<antinobody> NOW I understand the \o/
<antinobody> and I am ashamed
<LaserJock> heh, no need
<jsgmobile> Heh
* Burgundavia offers soap or antinobody's mind
<highvoltage> antinobody: that's ok, I also didn't know what it was when LaserJock did it in edubuntu, so I didn't want to ask there, and asked on my LUG channel instead, and they pointed me to goatse
<crimsun> ouch
* Hobbsee hands Burgundavia an "f"
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: needed that, thanks
<jsgmobile> Hahaha
* Hobbsee eyerolls
<Burgundavia> lol
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: no point stick of DOOM?
<LaserJock> *pointy
* antinobody appreciates Hobbsee's efforts to allow him to keep his mind
<Hobbsee> you know, it wouldnt have killed you to take that in the way id' intended it.
* Hobbsee attacks Burgundavia, jsgmobile an LaserJock with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (tm)
* StevenK hands Hobbsee a 'd'.
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: thats it! I leaving and sleeping now :P
* jsgmobile invokes +20 shield of light hex
* Hobbsee takes the d, and eats it
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: haha
* LaserJock hands himself and "A" for effort
<antinobody> I should probably stop putting off my math homework now, come to think.
<antinobody> The day will come when I actually have time to help you wise people.
<StevenK> LaserJock: Who is A, and how do you hand yourself for effort?
<dholbach> crimsun: frog.co.nz doesn't work for me!
<LaserJock> StevenK: :p
<Burgundavia> night all
<crimsun> dholbach: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.frog.co.nz/images2/toadily-insane.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.frog.co.nz/toadily-insane-a.html&h=450&w=398&sz=30&hl=en&start=8&tbnid=Ow0MrzfrYzdgfM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=112&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dinsane%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
<LaserJock> hahahaha
<LaserJock> that should totally be our mascot ;-)
<jsgmobile> Haha that url ate 3/4 of my screen
<crimsun> sorry, I should have used tinyurl
<dholbach> :)
<Hobbsee> indeed.  just imagine trying to copy that from irssi
* TheMuso subliminally directs Hobbsee's attention to http
<TheMuso> crap
<LaserJock> crimsun: nah, that's what he gets for using his phone for IRC'ing
<Hobbsee> hah
* TheMuso subliminally directs Hobbsee's attention to http://lca2007.linux.org.au
<dholbach> xchat-gnome is quite fine with it :)
<TheMuso> registrations open
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i ignored it :P
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: You know you want to.
* StevenK still hasn't decided if he'
<StevenK> s going.
* Hobbsee is off to dinner
* Hobbsee too
<dholbach> Hobbsee, TheMuso: you guys are giving a talk? :-)))
<TheMuso> dholbach: No, just going.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm not.
<TheMuso> StevenK: You know you want to.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i dont talk, remember?  i have this weird voice :P
<dholbach> I don't believe you :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I've heard it, it doesn't sound weird
<jsgmobile> dholbach: are you going to lca?
<TheMuso> *COUGH*
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: heh.  riiiight....
<dholbach> jsgmobile: no, I don't think so :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: it just sounds ... Australian
<Hobbsee> it's just higher pitched than everyone else's, so easily recognisable
<Hobbsee> that too
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: but I'm guessing at LCA that isn't a problem ;-)
<TheMuso> Everybody's voice is unique. Don't you know that already?
<Hobbsee> true....the AU bit
* Hobbsee is afk
* LaserJock thinks we should kidnap Hobbsee and make her speak at a UDS
<jsgmobile> LaserJock: at least i can still chat with you even if i'm in the toilet you have my outmost attention this way
<LaserJock> jsgmobile: yeah, that's just the analogy I needed
<LaserJock> maybe s/analogy/visual/
<TheMuso> eeeew
<LaserJock> it's too latehere
<LaserJock> sorry people
<mcsmurf> general question: How are the binary packages for the releases created? You (as a developer) upload the source code
<mcsmurf> and when a release should happen, the build machines compile the binaries?
<mcsmurf> (of all the source packages required&uploaded)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> we upload source packages
<LaserJock> the source packages go into a building queue
<LaserJock> and get built by the build farm into .debs
<mcsmurf> are these machines somewhat special? I noted the build date always seems to be the same
<mcsmurf> ok...
<LaserJock> no, I don't think they are particularly special
<mcsmurf> at least the Firefox releases always get 2006-06-01 as build id/date
<mcsmurf> (that's the number in the user-agent)
<Fujitsu> mcsmurf: That'll just be because it's hard-coded.
<mcsmurf> it's hard-coded?!
<mcsmurf> who thought that this would be a good idea ;-)
<highvoltage> if i want my gpg key info on my business card, I should have the gpg fingerprint on there, right?
<Fujitsu> highvoltage: Correct.
<mcsmurf> hm, cannot find where 20060601 is hardcoded in the diff, but it's not that urgent anyway
<highvoltage> Fujitsu: so I can just say: GnuPG Fingerprint: B9FD D720 AED9 28A1 7BD9  ABF5 B2BE AA0C DFDC 6CAE, and that will be enough?
<mcsmurf> just a bit confusing when 2.0b2 2.0 RCs and 2.0 final had the same id
<mcsmurf> :)
<crimsun> mcsmurf: you can verify via the changelog that it's the official 2.0 release plus approved mozilla.com patches
<mcsmurf> I looked at http://librarian.launchpad.net/4927395/firefox_2.0%2B0dfsg-0ubuntu3.diff.gz
<mcsmurf> yes, I can also look at the version in the user-agent ;-)
<mcsmurf> was just wondering if there is any "higher" sense behind hardcoding it
<crimsun> ian's probably the one who could answer that
<Chandu> hi
<Chandu> Hey in Ubuntu Packages file , I saw these two fields .. From where do you add this lines  "Bugs: mailto:ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
<Chandu> Origin: Ubuntu
<Chandu> "
<Chandu> I also found for package in universe section is mentioned as "universe/libs" like ..How you have changed section from libs to universe/libs
<Lathiat> It seems level3 london is the culprit
<Lathiat> Fujitsu, StevenK, etc
<StevenK> I can reach launchpad now.
<Lathiat> i can too
<Lathiat> err, with loss
<Lathiat> inconsistent loss
<Lathiat> every so often, 30+s seocnds
<Lathiat> it drops a string of packets from level3 onwards
<Lathiat> http://lathiat.net/mtr.png
<Hobbsee> hah @ [20:06]  * LaserJock thinks we should kidnap Hobbsee and make her speak at a UDS
<lastnode_> which package is dh_pysupport a part of
<Hobbsee> i'd take a stab at ebhelper
<Hobbsee> gah.  my d key doesnt watn to wokr today
<TheMuso> python-suppor
<TheMuso> python-support
<lastnode_> both are installed, newest versions
<Hobbsee> ah
<lastnode> /bin/sh: dh_pysupport: command not found
<lastnode> make: *** [binary-arch]  Error 127
<lastnode> any ideas, Hobbsee?
<lastnode> ive purged and reinstalled, dapper , i386
<TheMuso> lastnode: dpkg -L python-support and have a look for dh_pysupport
<TheMuso> Just to be sure.
<TheMuso> And do a which dh_pysupport for good measure as well.
<giskard> hello
<Hobbsee> lastnode: dh_pysupport isnt in dapper
<Hobbsee> lastnode: dapper didnt do the python transition
<lastnode_> oh right
<lastnode_> meh, i gotta install edgy on my other partition though
<lastnode_> Hobbsee, what is the dapper equiv of dh_support
<lastnode_> dh_python?
<Hobbsee> lastnode_: no idea, sorry
<lastnode_> thanks Hobbsee
<StevenK> dh_pysupport is different from dh_python.
<Chandu> Hobbsee, hi
<Chandu> Hobbsee, Hey How many days it will take to setup a new archive for new development release
<Chandu> Hobbsee, For example how many it took to setup for feisty
<Hobbsee> many man hours.
* Hobbsee goes afk again
<Hobbsee> Chandu: ^
<Chandu> Hobbsee, approximately .. Total howmany members will be working on this ..
<Chandu> Hobbsee, Bcz If I want to setup an archive for our project .. I want to estimate how mant dyas it may take ..How much time it needs ..How many members it needs
<Mez> hmmm - anyone have instructions on how to make a sid pbuild in edgy - It just seems to be hanging on me
<StevenK> Mez: What command line are you using?
<Mez> StevenK, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/mythplugins/0.20-0.6ubuntu4
<Mez> grr
<Mez> sudo pbuilder create --distribution sid --basetgz /scratch/pbuilds/sid.tgz
<StevenK> Wierd. Works here.
<Mez> StevenK, it was my pbuilderrc pointing to archive.ubuntu.com
<Mez> now I just need to find somewhere sid is on a server
<Mez> archive.debian.org isnt so
<StevenK> Heh, that'd do it.
<StevenK> ftp.debian.org
<StevenK> ftp.<countrycode>.debian.org
<Chandu> Hobbsee, are you there
<Mez> StevenK, still seems to be hanging on I: Retrieving Packages
<StevenK> Mez: Give it a minute, the Packages.gz for Debian main is 5.6Mb or so.
<Mez> 5.6Mb ?
<Mez> wtf?
<Mez> that's going to take forever ;)
<StevenK> Heh
<Mez> I only have to get it on create and update though right ?
<StevenK> Correct.
<Chandu> Hey can any one tell me How many days it takes for setting up the repo for the development release ... rebuilding all the debian sources and segregating between universe and main
<Mez> aha, tis done
* Mez starts testing a build of rar-3.60
<StevenK> Mez: Is that a *good* thing?
<Mez> StevenK, I'm the maintainer ;) I should update it to the new version at some point
<StevenK> Heh.
<StevenK> I should probably fix some Debian bugs too.
* StevenK has no motivation for Debian work recently.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: not even fixing the linda ondes?
<StevenK> No.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: around?
<gnomefreak> dholbach: _all_ apps taht are canidates for the repos must have a rules file correct?
<gnomefreak> s/taht/that
<dholbach> yes, debian/rules is a must
<gnomefreak> thought so
<gnomefreak> k ty
<Chandu> Hobbsee, I didnt answer to my query
<Hobbsee> Chandu: i did answer  - it takes many man hours.  the amount of man hours would depend on the people's skills, and the tools they had to do it.  more than that, i cant help you with
<Chandu> Hobbsee, ok ..thank you ....but can you tell me how many ubuntu members will be working on creating archive ..
<bhale> Hobbsee: not yet
<bhale> Hobbsee: he left on his own yesterday
<Hobbsee> bhale: right
<Hobbsee> bhale: was about to ask you about it, actually
* bhale snuggles up to Hobbsee 
<bhale> not me please!
* Hobbsee notes that she's got slightly strongarm-ish, due to the userland channels
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> "please dont throw me in the briar bush!" you say!
<StevenK> Brer Rabbit!
<StevenK> Oh geez, how long has it been.
<bhale> I might ban him
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> bhale: query?
<bhale> Hobbsee: ok.
<ajmitch> evening
* StevenK waves to ajmitch.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Early morning for you, isn't it? :-P
<ajmitch> well yeah
<ajmitch> but I've been at a friend's 21st & then at the pub
* ajmitch looks for the latest flames on the motu list
<ajmitch> sigh, no flames
<ajmitch> and no more names put forward
<ajmitch> poor dholbach
<Fujitsu> bhale: Ban whom?
<bhale> Fujitsu: aulin
<bhale> aualin
<bhale> its done
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<bhale> he is a repeat problem
<Fujitsu> Oh, that guy.] 
<dexem> dholbach: hey! you have been faster than me commenting the evolution TLS problem :P
<dholbach> dexem: sorry :)
<dexem> no prob :)
<dexem> I'm the original reporter, and I keep getting the error
<dexem> it's weird :S
<marcin_ant> hi all
<marcin_ant> I got question about development
<marcin_ant> I would like to develop some web application especially for ubuntu
<marcin_ant> and because ubuntu promotes python as favourite language I would like to use python
<marcin_ant> but this is pretty weird because there is a lot of ways to use python with web development
<marcin_ant> so I wolud like to ask if is there any preferred way to develop web application with python for ubuntu community?
<marcin_ant> to name few we got fastcgi, mod_python, zope....
<gnomefreak> ubuntu has zope already iirc
<marcin_ant> gnomefreak: yes I know
<gnomefreak> k
<marcin_ant> gnomefreak: but to be honest I really don't like it... although I could write my code as zope 'product'
<marcin_ant> gnomefreak: unfortunately imho zope is slow and designed in the way that I don't like at all...
<gnomefreak> never used it
<Hobbsee> bhale: oh dear.
<fernando> ajmitch: how can i be involved in directory service team?
<ajmitch> #ubuntu-directory, and the ubuntu-directory mailing list
* ajmitch is about to go to bed, so can't really stay up & explain it
<imbrandon> ajmitch, got a sec ?
<imbrandon> before ya head to bed
<ajmitch> I suppose
<imbrandon> 6 of the 7 have accepted the nomination ( only one left to have no is Hobbsee and i imagine she just hasent got to the email )
<imbrandon> if you wanna change the LP team
<StevenK> I'm the final one?
<imbrandon> dholbach, siretart, crimsun, bddebian, imbrandon, sistopy , Stevenk
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no, I don't want to change the LP team, it's not final by any means afaik
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> thats fine
<imbrandon> just wanted to hit you up before you headed to sleep
<ajmitch> I'll wait for something a bit more decisive than people accepting nominations you've suggested :)
<imbrandon> we can do it later once we get word then
<thom> oh man, people are hitting steven and i missed out?
<imbrandon> heh ok
<StevenK> Thanks very much.
<StevenK> I might just decline on the grounds that people think I'm an idiot.
<ajmitch> though I should remove myself from the team since I'm not meant to be there
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i dont think you can untill the others are added can you ?
<ajmitch> there, I'm out of the team
<imbrandon> otherwise no one could add the new people
* ajmitch can go back to his regularly scheduled work now
<imbrandon> :)
* ajmitch drops off -uvf
<ajmitch> now I don't have to worry about being pestered by anyone :)
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon heads for the shower
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i did get the email
<semente> How to suggest a package subclipse (Subversion integration for Eclipse)?
<Adri2000> semente: add it to the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<semente> Adri2000: I can edit? Ok.
<Adri2000> of course you can :)
<semente> Adri2000: Thanks for info.
<Mez> hmm bberyl doesnt like my system
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Mez> anyone here have much success with beryl?
<siretart> Mez: I'm currently using it
<siretart> for some values of 'using'
<Mez> siretart, if i maximise a window - it just leaves me staring at my wallpaper.... any ideas?
<siretart> Mez: don't maximise it. try to resize it several times
<Mez> siretart, lol ....
<siretart> Mez: beryl isn't really releasable yet. it has just too many bugs
<iXce> strange problem
<Mez> siretart: what about compiz .. is that working
<Mez> I dont really want the composite manager (though that would be nice) I just want the cube, and the stuff that comes with the cube
<iXce> if you've a bug with Beryl, just report it on the tracker
<siretart> hehe, for the cube, you'll need a composite manager
<Mez> darnit
<iXce> it'll get fixed asap
<Mez> and compiz-kde doesnt exist yet
<siretart> iXce: you mean the trac?
<iXce> yeah
<iXce> Mez : Aquamarine, a KDE decorator for beryl, was pre-released yesterday
<Mez> iXce, beryl does work with KDE though with emerald
<iXce> bad wifi link.. sorry
<iXce> Mez : sure
<iXce> and it works pretty well
<Mez> but ... ?
<Mez> brb
<iXce> and if you want kicker to be aware of compiz/beryl desktops, you just need compiz-kicker, a modified kicker
<imbrandon> is it in kdesvn ?
<iXce> hmm not sure
<imbrandon> umm you forked kdebase too ?
<iXce> not at all
<siretart> * Reintroduce old resize plugin (as resizelegacy plugin) until the new one becomes perfect
<iXce> and the kicker is not from any of the beryl/compiz guys :/
<siretart> iXce: what was the problem with the 'new' resize plugin?
<iXce> siretart : it just has a lot of bugs *g*
<siretart> iXce: like the window doesn't get updated at all?
<iXce> just try normal mode..
<iXce> it should, but that may be a related issue yeah
<siretart> what do you mean with 'normal' mode?
<siretart> I think I'm using the 'new' resize plugin. if I deactivate it, then I cannot resize windows anymore
<iXce> you're using svn?
<iXce> if so, just check the "resizelegacy" plugin (it'll automatically disable the other one)
<siretart> I'm using svn revision 842
<siretart> perhaps I should update
<iXce> oh yeah
<iXce> we're at 952 now ;)
<iXce> the resizelegacy was added last night
<siretart> ah, that explains
<siretart> iXce: dh_install: beryl-plugins-data missing files (debian/tmp/usr/share/beryl/*), aborting. any idea?
<iXce> siretart : svn up ;)
<iXce> * Fixed beryl-plugins/images/Makefile.am
<siretart> doh
<siretart> I updated to 951 5 min ago
<Mez> iXce, where can i find logs for whats happening when it crashes?
<iXce> Mez : basically you ought to get a .out in /tmp
<iXce> you can also look at ~/.beryl.log
<Mez> no ~/.beryl.log
<Mez> and no a.out
<iXce> not a.out :p i meant, a berylsomething.out
<Mez> iXce, it will now and then work for a short while - but usually just dumps me looking at my desktop .... could be anything that triggers it ..
<Mez> no .out files in /tmp
<iXce> okay
<iXce> did you enable the crashhandler plugin?
* Mez wouldnt know how to ;)
<iXce> run beryl-settings
<iXce> and check crashhandler
<iXce> should be the 7th item in the left column
<Mez> it's enabled
<iXce> hmm strange
<Mez> indeed
<Mez> does it only output these files if beyrl crashes?
<iXce> yeah
<iXce> crashhandler output that .out in /tmp afaik
<Mez> it may be xGl crashing (explaining why it just leaves me with my wallpaper
<Mez> and nothing else (no kicker, etc etc)
<iXce> what card are you using?
<Mez> ATI Radeon 9200SE
<iXce> hmm
<iXce> why don't you try AIGLX + r300 drivers?
<Mez> I mean, I had it running for a whole minute at one point (even doing cubey things)
<iXce> yeah
<Mez> but then crashed
* Mez will try aiglx
<Mez> beyrl should run on a defualt session if i do that right ?
<iXce> yeah
<Mez> if i do Option "Composite" "Enable" though, it disables dri
<Mez> meaning the fglrx driver doesnt load
* iXce looking at some wikis
<iXce> Mez : you don't need fglrx, but the free r300 driver :)
<Mez> iXce, it doesnt crash with aiglx, but once beryl loads, everything is just white....
<iXce> arg, the white problem
<Mez> lol
<iXce> i know how to fix it on gentoo, not on ubuntu *g*
<Mez> known bug I take ?
<Mez> you got a howto to fix on gentoo /
<iXce> nah
<iXce> on gentoo it's due to a bad glproto
<iXce> (xorg, beryl & al have to be rebuild against new glproto stuff)
<iXce> but it's not the same problem as on ubuntu
<_MMA_> Ha! iXce: your being more help here then the guys in #beryl. :)
<Mez> lol ...
<lastnode> _MMA_, iXce IS from beryl xD
<_MMA_> I know. :)
<Mez> iXce, so it would need a recompile for it to work ?
<iXce> Mez : nah, i don't think so
<_MMA_> lastnode: Ive been chattin with him this morning in #ubuntustudio. :)
<Mez> iXce, how is it fixed in gentoo?
<iXce> http://wiki.gentoo-xeffects.org/FAQ#How_do_I_get_rid_of_the_white_screen.3F
<iXce> sounds like some of the bugs described in http://bugs.beryl-project.org/ticket/469
<Mez> iXce, I think I may no why it happens
<Mez> I used
<iXce> oh?
<Mez> beeorkid to start with, then moved to use the SVN snapshots... maybe if I reinstalled from the SVN snapshot it'd be cool
<iXce> maybe
<Mez> what packages are auto-updated when I apt-get upgrade ?
<Mez> ? xserver-xgl libgl1-mesa xserver-xorg libglitz-glx1 beryl emerald-themes
<iXce> xserver-xorg shouldn't be updated
<iXce> nor any of the other packages
<iXce> the only one may be the libxcomposite0.3
<Mez> i remember something to do with mesa being updated
<Mez> brb i hope
<Mez> iXce, a lot of bugs have been posted saying it's a configuration issue ?
<iXce> yeah
<iXce> the thing is that it's an easy nvidia bug, and an easy gentoo bug
<iXce> oh yeah
<iXce> how is you Option "Composite" ?
<Mez> "Enabled" or something similar to that
<iXce> silly me
<iXce> a min please
<Mez> Section "Extensions"
<Mez>         Option      "Composite" "Enable"
<Mez> EndSection
<Mez> .
<pianoboy3333> Do any of you have debs for gaim b4?
<iXce> pianoboy3333 : look on the forum ;)
<Mez> iXce, should it not be set to that ?
<iXce> my wifi is really laggy :/
<pianoboy3333> iXce: I did, those are crappy debs, I want gaim 4 split like it is in the ubuntu repositories
<iXce> a min please ;)
<Mez> kk
<dholbach> pianoboy3333, iXce: can you please tell people that if they file bug reports, they mention were they got the packages from?
<iXce> pianoboy3333 : there are good debs as well ;) build with ubuntu debian/
<iXce> dholbach : err, it sounds obvious that such people won't post bug reports for such packages :/
<dholbach> pianoboy3333, iXce: we get loads of bug reports on gaim, lots of crasher bugs and some of them are related to wonky plugins and other weird stuff - which always causes headaches and lots of questions
<iXce> :/
<dholbach> iXce: you say that now :)
<dholbach> i'm happy you work on gaim
<_MMA_> iXce: You would think but it happens. :)
<iXce> dholbach : was just replying to pianoboy3333 who was asking for packages :p
<iXce> _MMA_ : yeah i know..
<iXce> we're really sorry (the beryl team) for the bugs you may get about beryl on launchpad
<dholbach> they'll get into feisty (and maybe into -backports - that remains to be seen)
<dholbach> I just thought I'd tell you, as I spent a lot of my time on figuring out crasher bugs the last days.
<iXce> okay :)
<pianoboy3333> iXce: what do you mean build with ubuntu debian/?
<iXce> pianoboy3333 : i mean, clean packages built as would good packagers do
<imbrandon> oh wow , after all the press about upgrade issues people are still recomending packages from the forums /me gives up
<earthian> hello
<pianoboy3333> iXce: but do you know of any split packages? like I'm looking for gaim, gaim-dev, gaim-data and so on packages, not just one big thing
<zul> imbrandon: people will never learn and ill stop it at that
<earthian> dmraid is till same not working version.
<iXce> imbrandon : he's asking for gaim beta4 packages - the only place you can get some are the forums - should i just tell him : keep beta 3?
<iXce> Mez : try replacing Enable by 0
<earthian> can somebody spend a little time and compile the newest one so it will work with the new edgy kernel version?
<pianoboy3333> iXce: .... I'm right here....
<imbrandon> iXce, yes, that would be the recomended way untill they can be properly packages / uploaded/ and tested
<iXce> i'll do that then
<pianoboy3333> Fine
<iXce> sorry -
<pianoboy3333> lol
<pianoboy3333> I'll try uupdating
<earthian> or at least mail the creator with the problems... i still cant use my PC because DMRAID package is not finding my damn array :( if i just knew wtf is going with thise stupid raid i would never had one..
<iXce> now you'll get a ticket with unpackaged stuff.
<earthian> and i am ready to test it etc.
<earthian> :0
<imbrandon> earthian, yes there is a SRU in the works for it, it still hasent been updated from 2 or 3 days ago when you asked last
<earthian> yes... i am still *waiting*
<earthian> because i do not find any alternative atm
<imbrandon> earthian, well it will likely be the end of next week before anything is even in -proposed
<earthian> anyway.. i am here just to remind. :)
<earthian> :
<earthian> sadly :/
<imbrandon> iXce, no , not that wont get rejected that is , even packaged software gets rejected if its not in the archive
<iXce> that's not better, in both case you'll get a bug anyway ;)
<iXce> Mez : try replacing Enable by 0
<imbrandon> iXce, the proper way would be to have those that make the packages on the forums go through the processes like us all to get them in the archive
<Mez> iXce, mez@apathy:~$ beryl
<Mez> XGL Absent, checking for NVIDIA
<Mez> Nvidia Absent, assuming AIGLX
<Mez> beryl: No composite extension
<iXce> argh
<imbrandon> anything ele isnt relevant and can and will cause issues ( thus all the blog's about problems )
<iXce> Mez : please ask DBO ;)
<Mez> iXce, I gotta be up in 3 hours... :D
<Mez> DBO's another devel then ?
<iXce> nah
<iXce> he's our main helper ;)
<Mez> lol - fair enough - I'll poke him tomorrow, or you if you;re around and he isnt
<iXce> okay ;)
<cbx33> does anyone here speak japanese?
<luisbg> hello all
<gnomefreak> someone really hates me today :( i did updates today and it broke everything :(
<crimsun> kinda vague, no?
<gnomefreak> crimsun: reset my /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<crimsun> I didn't see any updates today regarding X.Org
<plugwash> gnomefreak you upgraded from dapper to edgy?
<gnomefreak> to basic options. i dont remember what the 3 were
<gnomefreak> plugwash: no i did the 3-4 updates this am
<gnomefreak> i wanna say libruby... was one
<crimsun> yes, but none of those go near xorg.conf
<gnomefreak> thats what i thought too
<gnomefreak> there were no other updates that i have seen. but for somereason i reboot and all hell breaks loose
<gnomefreak> and erased all my backgrounds. everything seemed to be reset to defaults
<gnomefreak> ill dig into later it just grabbed me as weird/kind of scary. see everyone later
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<plugwash> i see a new version of libc6 has hit feisty
<plugwash> i guess the compilers and such are next
<keescook> hm, is there already wiki page that goes over how to build a new package from a debdiff, for people that don't know how to do it?
<keescook> I showed someone on #ubuntu how to do it, as he was anxious for the vino fix.
<keescook> After a quick search, I didn't find anything I could point them to.
<LaserJock> keescook: not specifically, but the Ubuntu Packaging Guide might help a little
<LaserJock> but it's a bit much for just apply debdiff and dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<keescook> LaserJock: I was thinking more along the lines of the audience being people that really don't want to know all the gritty details, but want an updated .deb quickly
<keescook> yeah
<LaserJock> keescook: the next version of the Ubuntu Packaging Guide will have that
<keescook> I think it'll write one up.  I've wanted to have it to point people to a few times now
<LaserJock> I just haven't gotten to it yet
<keescook> ah, cool.
<keescook> LaserJock: where do you recommend I put it in the wiki?  MOTU/BuildFromDebdiff or something?
<LaserJock> keescook: hmm, I guess so
<LaserJock> I'll incorporate it into the Packaging Guide eventually so it shouldn't be a permanent spot
<keescook> sure.  where would you like me to put a "rough draft"?
<LaserJock> well, if you want you could put it under the packaging guide namespace
<LaserJock> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/BuildFromDebdiff would be good
<keescook> okay, cool
<LaserJock> thanks dude
<dholbach> LaserJock: we should link that from MOTU/Documentation or something
<dholbach> LaserJock: and maybe move the sitemap to MOTU/Sitemap or something
<_MMA_> You guys might like this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=290533
<giskard> hello dholbach LaserJock :)
<Burgwork> Amaranth: ping
<luisbg> hey LaserJock =)
<Amaranth> Burgwork: pong, lagging badly
<Amaranth> ooh, fixed lag
<Burgwork> pm
<iXce> huhu
<giskard> hello iXce
<iXce> hi giskard
<LaserJock> dholbach: yeah, we need a massive wiki cleanup
<LaserJock> it's just a lot of work that not many people want to do ;-)
<giskard> LaserJock: i can take a look on it... but i need to know what are our needs.
<LaserJock> clean, concise, and updates wiki pages that are easy to read :-)
<LaserJock> *updated
<giskard> LaserJock: i mean, we need a stable *skeleton* for MOTU :)
<ajmitch> morning all
<fernando> ajmitch: hi
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<keescook> LaserJock: rough draft done!  :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/BuildFromDebdiff
<keescook> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey keescook, how's it going/
<LaserJock> dholbach: do you  have any idea at all if we are going to have only 1 freeze (Universe Freeze) in feisty too?
<keescook> ajmitch: busy USN day for me.  :)
<LaserJock> keescook: yep, saw it in my email
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it'll probably be discussed at UDS, do you think this should change?
<LaserJock> well, I did kinda like having UVF and FF
<LaserJock> so there wasn't a mad dash for *everything* at the end
<LaserJock> but having just one was much simpler
<ajmitch> also whether all universe uploads need approval at RC freeze
<bhale> people could just start working on unmet deps sooner than the last minute
<dholbach> LaserJock: not yet, but I think we should do it - the discussions have not happened yet
<LaserJock> bhale: yes, I hope that task lists and weekly reports will help with that
<bhale> i stopped doing things after beta
<bhale> in edgy
<bhale> possibly because i am lazy
<LaserJock> well, we seemed to freeze a little harder this time
<LaserJock> not that many exceptions it seemed to me
<bhale> i didnt even try for any after  beta
<bhale> beta freeze
<ajmitch> LaserJock: because people stopped trying
<hub> http://www.advogato.org/person/roozbeh/diary.html?start=130 <- that would be a good package candidate
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I'd have to say "You have to get approval for *all* uploads" compared to "You have to get approval for new upstream versions and new packages" made a difference
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I was disappointed to not even see many people try for freeze exceptions
<bhale> ajmitch: tehre is more paper work every time
<LaserJock> well, I just had way to many things, once Universe Freeze hit I moved on to other things
<LaserJock> I just figured if they want it frozen then fine
<LaserJock> the whole "Lets freeze but expect lots of exceptions" is a bit confusing for people I think
<zul> I think most people did..
<bhale> we also have alot more people now
<bhale> i guess
<bhale> there used to be 20 uploaders
<zul> how many are there now?
<bhale> loads
<LaserJock> well, there are 57 MOTUs listed
<LaserJock> more core-devs too
<bhale> that 57 should overlap with core dev
<bhale> but there are 30 in there
<bhale> last i looked
<LaserJock> 40 members of -core-dev
<LaserJock> I'm guess around 10 as the overlap
<bhale> i guess.
<LaserJock> so that's close to 80 uploaders
<LaserJock> what's more important to me is the number of MOTU that are active
<LaserJock> I was going to get the number of MOTUs that made an upload in Edgy
<ajmitch> "80 people are members in total, directly and indirectly through other team memberships. "
<luisbg> but maybe those 80 are not active
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ah yeah
* LaserJock feels like wiping out large chunks of the MOTU wiki :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Good plan! :-)
<zul> faster pussycat kill kill
<LaserJock> yikes, over 200 pages with "MOTU" in the title
<LaserJock> stupid redirects
* LaserJock gets out the chainsaw
<iXce> LaserJock in SAW III :p
<LaserJock> Wiki Chainsaw Massacre
<LaserJock> and another one bites the dust
<bhale> ?
<LaserJock> deleting wiki pages
<bhale> oh.
<bhale> exciting
<bddebian> Who the heck is this bhale guy? ;-)
<bhale> bddebian: sigh
<bhale> sick of hearing about it
<bddebian> :-(  Sorry
<Amaranth> bddebian: Something about losing tseng in a back alley... :P
<bhale> abock, snorp, tberman, now bddebian
<bhale> i cant escape the whiners
<Amaranth> At least they still know who you are
<bddebian> I wasn't whining, just commenting.. Sheesh :'-(
<bhale> Amaranth: im famous and stuff
<Amaranth> Before I started using freenode I was 'Travis'. When I switched to Amaranth no one would believe I was the same person. :P
<bhale> i had tseng since OPN
<bhale> which most of you kids don't remember
* bhale acts old
<luisbg> bhale, you are old :P
<bhale> hah
<bhale> 22!
* bhale works out his arthritis
<luisbg> I use "d33p" for most creative stuff, and luisbg for foss
* luisbg is one year older than bhale, he feels old now :S
<lifeless> I've had lifeless since uhm, 92 IIRC
<Amaranth> heh, 22 is old :P
<Amaranth> in 92 i didn't even know what AOL was
<luisbg> Amaranth, how old are you unexperienced man?
<Amaranth> 19
<luisbg> too bad girls prefere them more experienced and mature :P
<bhale> yeah
<iXce> :p
<bhale> i dont remember what year opn was
<bhale> 98 or 99
<luisbg> opn?
<bhale> irc.openprojects.net
<luisbg> oohh
<bhale> it was the forerunner to freenode
<bhale> (and irc.oftc.net)
<luisbg> I see
<luisbg> when I joined in the foss lifestyle... freenode was already there
<luisbg> bhale, how did you enter foss?
<bddebian> 22 is Old?? WTF???
<luisbg> bddebian must be like 30 :P
<zul> there is nothing wrong with being 30
<luisbg> zul, haven't said that
<herzi> zul: not? ;)
<bddebian> luisbg: 36 man
* bddebian is ancient :-(
<luisbg> bddebian, like kevin smith
<luisbg> what is "your own wiki homepage"? at the motu wiki
<bhale> luisbg: hm
<bhale> luisbg: i started working on gentoo many years ago now
<luisbg> bhale, cool
<LaserJock> luisbg: like mine is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha
<luisbg> I want to get one so I can keep a list of my contributions... like right now... the unmet bug fixes
<luisbg> what do I have to do?
<luisbg> can I just create an empty page? or should I contribute more to be worth one
<LaserJock> luisbg: just go to the URL you want to use
<luisbg> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LuisdeBethencourt <----create an empty page
<luisbg> I ment that
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> oh wait
<LaserJock> is there a Homepage template on the left side?
<LaserJock> or Personal page or something to that effect
<luisbg> yes, much better =)
<_MMA_> "but got tired of the compiling and tweaking and I wasn't spending as much time using my computer as working on it." -LaserJock :)
<_MMA_> Crap. Wrong page. :)
<LaserJock> geeze, that's an old quote
<LaserJock> hhmmm, interesting post from Mark
<TheMuso> Wow. A security update already.
<lotusleaf> I've discovered some packages in universe which say they cannot be installed because they require another package which isn't available. Where do I report this?
<LaserJock> it should be already known
<LaserJock> but Launchpad is the place to look
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: Righteous, thank you.
<LaserJock> darn, it's too bad you don't get karma for wiki work
<LaserJock> 15 pages down the drain so far
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> maybe somebody should post a comment to Marks post saying "I'd rather just have Launchpad work" ;-)
<ajmitch> "I'd rather just have Launchpad Free"
<LaserJock> heh
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I'm with you.
<LaserJock> talking about getting people together
<ajmitch> get us all together, on a proprierary platform
<TheMuso> What post are we talking about anyway?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: Mark's planet post
<TheMuso> WHich one?
<LaserJock> his last one
<TheMuso> About packaging?
<LaserJock> yeah
<giskard> there is autopackage. you can use it through auto*
<giskard> but..i guess this is not a good idea.
<ajmitch> no, not it's not a good idea
<ajmitch> autopackage is not nice
<LaserJock> maybe he wants to replace everything with bzr :-)
<giskard> ahahaha
<TheMuso> Heh at comment 20.
<giskard> hello ajmitch
<TheMuso> And 19
<LaserJock> none of them seem particularly spectacular to me
<ajmitch> hi giskard
<TheMuso> I think its people wanting Linux to work like Windows, in terms of packaging anyway.
<LaserJock> I think it's more people wanting to get the latest crack as fast as they can
<ajmitch> like firefox, the minute it's released
<luisbg> LaserJock, I still have 0 karma points :(
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<nixternal> speaking of LP, check out bug 69768
<Ubugtu> Bug 69768 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/69768 is private
<nixternal> oh, now it says it is private
<_MMA_> So theres no merit to wanting to have a standard? Even if to further unite GNU/Linux?
<ajmitch> nixternal: what was it?
<nixternal> private i guess, it just didn't say that, it was blank
<nixternal> why/how do they mark it private?
<TheMuso> When you report a bug, there is an option to mark a bug private.
<nixternal> ah, never noticed that
<TheMuso> THere is probably also an option that can be set after the bug has been reported as well I guess.
<imbrandon> for major security problems
<imbrandon> so they are not publicly said before the fix is out
<imbrandon> TheMuso, you said you have had streaming working before
<imbrandon> with a set playlist ? or could you choose it as you went along ?
* StevenK appears.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Streaming? What streaming are you referring to
<imbrandon> icecast
<imbrandon> i just want a simple way to stream some music
<imbrandon> from a playlist i choose as it go's along
<imbrandon> and i cant seem to find a solution
<TheMuso> I think Icecast can do that.
<TheMuso> I have only ever used it for live broadcasting.
<imbrandon> even live is fine but for some reason when i set it to stream live it only picks up my microphone , not the music
<imbrandon> using ices2 or what ever its called
<TheMuso> Well I think that you can actually set up shoutcast itself to read from a playlist file.
<TheMuso> You'd have to check though.
<imbrandon> yea , id rather use like xmms or amarok to play the music so i can make changes to the playlist as i go along
<TheMuso> Right.
<imbrandon> thats the main issue, i can use icecast to play a playlist file
<TheMuso> Well, you could use mpd to stream to icecast, and then use a GUI mpd client to control the playlist.
<imbrandon> mpd will stream to icecast?
<TheMuso> You can make it do so yes.
<imbrandon> that would probably work out great
<TheMuso> I remember reading about it on the mpd wiki.
<imbrandon> nice, thanks, i'll look up that
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> sru stuff has gone nowhere again
* StevenK idly wonders how to accept his nomination.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Configuration#Icecast
<imbrandon> TheMuso, thanks
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
<ajmitch> StevenK: humbly, giving thanks to everyone who nominated you, with a tearful speech?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Only thanking people who nominated me? Hah, I'd have to start with Linus, and work down.
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> hahaha
<ajmitch> probably still got a day or two for nominations
<imbrandon> yea i think dholbach said something about friday, not certain though
<ajmitch> yes, he did
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-02
<Amaranth> imbrandon: find out who your roommate in mountain view is? :)
<imbrandon> john trapsell , whomever that is
<imbrandon> i guess a KDE developer
<LaserJock> heh
<Amaranth> hrm
* Amaranth won't be there until 11pm sunday night
* LaserJock was imaging going to dinner, "OK, KDE on the left, Gnome on the right, XFCE gets to eat outside"
<Amaranth> so i need to find somewhere to crash before i show up :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ahahah
<crimsun> eh? Who's actually going that works on Xfce?
<LaserJock> jani
<crimsun> ah
<crimsun> the lone trooper
<Amaranth> John Tapsell?
<imbrandon> Amaranth, yea thats right
<imbrandon> my mistake
<Amaranth> google told me :P
<LaserJock> thank goodness for google
<Amaranth> i googled trapsell and it offered tapsell as a spelling suggestion
<LaserJock> in more ways then one
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> it was really funny at Ubucon
<LaserJock> somebody was looking for something
<LaserJock> and somebody ( I think it was an LTSP guy) yelled "Google i"
<LaserJock> *it
<imbrandon> hahaha
<LaserJock> you had to be there
<poningru> rofl I dont think you can do that at mv
<crimsun> sure you can
<LaserJock> the whole left side of the room was google shirts
<poningru> the lawyers will make you disapear
<LaserJock> I'm looking forward to the food
<LaserJock> much better then Paris
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I'll bet.
<imbrandon> anyone else see they released wince 6 open source ( shared source lic )
<Amaranth> so, how about it, anyone willing to house a bum in their hotel room? :)
<LaserJock> sorry Amaranth, I gave up mine
<imbrandon> Amaranth, you dont have a room ?
<LaserJock> I put in a good word for you and ajmitch though
<Amaranth> nope
<Amaranth> i only have a ticket because someone else was nice enough to buy it
<Amaranth> i figure i'll sort the rest out eventually :P
<Amaranth> (plane ticket, that is)
<crimsun> Amaranth: are you planning to stay the entire time?
<Amaranth> yeah
<imbrandon> heh, i dont mind personaly , but i dont wanna get canonical in a fit
<imbrandon> as they are footing my bill :)
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> just tell mark i'm a beryl developer ;)
<LaserJock> haha
<imbrandon> LOL
<Amaranth> *cough*seriously*cough*
<LaserJock> "I bring bling!"
<Amaranth> :P
* bhale takes 30 pages of UI and beats Amaranth over the head with them
* imbrandon sicks seele on Amaranth
<Amaranth> hey, i stay away from the core stuff :P
<Amaranth> i'm working on gnome integration
<Burgwork> I believe beryle-gnome-integration is called compiz
<Amaranth> hehe
<poningru> Amaranth: err hold on dude asking couple of friends
<poningru> who work at mv
<poningru> err wait maybe I should ask this first
<poningru> whats your attitude toward mofo?
<Amaranth> poningru: haha
<Amaranth> poningru: i'd love to visit? :P
<imbrandon> mofo ?
<Amaranth> mozilla foundation
<imbrandon> ahh
<crimsun> does ajmitch have housing for UDS, too?
<imbrandon> not 100% sure, last i heard i think whiprush had offered something
<imbrandon> i dont mind helping ajmitch or Amaranth as i said i just dont want anyone to get their panties in a bunch , you know what i mean
<imbrandon> ( as in a 3rd person in the room )
<bhale> i figured out in boston that i am too old to sleep on the floor
<Amaranth> i'm not :P
<iXce> :p
<Amaranth> i think i'm going to have to try to borrow money from someone to get my own room for the first night
<iXce> ow..
<Amaranth> or not eat for a day or two :P
<ajmitch> crimsun: I do - if I didn't by now, i'd be in trouble
<crimsun> w/ whiprush et al.?
<iXce> Amaranth : you're in trouble :p
<ajmitch> yes
<crimsun> excellent
<ajmitch> only option, really :)
<Amaranth> i've got a fallback
<Amaranth> but it'll hurt very badly
<ajmitch> Amaranth: how badly?
<imbrandon> TheMuso, rockin mpd + icecast was exactly what i wanted, got it working now
<Amaranth> massive dept badly
<ajmitch> Amaranth: under a bridge, or in an office?
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Cool.
<Amaranth> wha?
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com:8000/mpd.ogg.m3u if anyone cares to listen to my taste of music
<imbrandon> now that its working thanks to TheMuso :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I just got the email you sent yesterday nominating the known world
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> kinda late
<imbrandon> did you get the one after with a smaller list ?
<ajmitch> I got that one first
<imbrandon> ahh
<ajmitch> like several hours ago :)
* ajmitch blames the ISP's mail servers
<imbrandon> heh
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Is that on one of your own boxes?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> its here at the house
<LaserJock> phew
<TheMuso> Right.
<LaserJock> I just got done "recabling" our lab for the new guy
<LaserJock> he wondered why we don't have any Windows machines in our lab
<luisbg> LaserJock, what did you reply?
<LaserJock> "cause we don't need them"
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> I managed to dig up an old Windows 2k box for him
<imbrandon> haha you should have gave him a skined kde :)
<LaserJock> now I've got 2 Linux boxen, an iMac, a Windows 2k box, 2 printers, and UPS sitting more-or-less on 1 desk
<LaserJock> s/sitting/sitting on/
<LaserJock> nvm
<LaserJock> the kvm was a little cluttered
<ajmitch> LaserJock: and a chemist needs all this?
<LaserJock> and I had to rip out a NIC to put in the Windows box
<LaserJock> ajmitch: we inherited a theoretician's lab
<ajmitch> with all their junk?
<LaserJock> well, we inherited their junk (and a grad student) but not lab/office space :(
<LaserJock> but yeah, we don't really even need computers much
<Burgwork> imbrandon: actually, I think GNOME actually looks closer to Windows, if you change the default menu structure and panels
<LaserJock> well, it's not so much the "look" but the applications
<imbrandon> Burgwork, http://www.buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/screenshots/snapshot1.png
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> thats from my luna theme a few months ago
<LaserJock> "can you run Windows software on it?" is usually what I get
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i have IE6 Photoshop and iTunes all in that screenshot
<imbrandon> :)
<Burgwork> imbrandon: it is isn't quite right. the GNOME screenshots I have seen are actually much closer
<ajmitch> imbrandon: there's a special circle of hell reserved for people like you
<LaserJock> well, MS Office is the killer app for use unfortunately
<Burgwork> now, of course, this is just a giant boobie prize
<imbrandon> Burgwork, well its peiced from screenshots so it should be exact
<imbrandon> eg ss i took from a winbox
<imbrandon> woot i have a whole 3 listeners to my stream lol
* ajmitch will avoid subscribing
<imbrandon> heh i'm just ahppy i got it working
* LaserJock thinks "stream of what?" :/
<imbrandon> 3 doors down is playing atm LaserJock , just random music i'm playing
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com:8000/mpd.ogg.m3u
<LaserJock> so I can listen to what you're listening?
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> this must be some sick core-dev brainwashing campaign
<crimsun> wha, no gangsta rap?
<imbrandon> lol no
<ajmitch> LaserJock: does he have shakira? :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I might listen if he did
<TheMuso> So imbrandon, are you just tuning into your own icecast server to listen to your music at the same time?
<imbrandon> haha i do
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ^
<LaserJock> oh geeze
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea i have icecast and mpd running on one computer and pympd on another
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> I think there's a KDE client.
<TheMuso> Is that track improperly tagged or something?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> it has no title
* imbrandon ques up shakera
<imbrandon> just for LaserJock HAHAHHA
<TheMuso> shakera sucks. Nuff said.
<LaserJock> what the heck is this?
<imbrandon> shakera
<imbrandon> lol
* imbrandon chooses something else
<LaserJock> "Underneath Your Clothes" ?
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> that's shakera?!?!
<imbrandon> Current Song:	Shakira - Underneath Your Clothes
<LaserJock> tbh, I've never even heard or seen her
* LaserJock lives under a rock
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: neither have I, but I've heard it's crap music :)
<ajmitch> hey bmonty
<bmonty> hi ajmitch
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Hit it on the head.
<TheMuso> SHe can't even sing.
<LaserJock> it's like some kinda Country/Pop something
<imbrandon> its not terrible is LaserJock
<imbrandon> latin pop
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ugh
<ajmitch> burn it all
<imbrandon> ok back to the good stuff
<TheMuso> gah. Speakup is being screwy again
<imbrandon> i could always put on some bach
<imbrandon> :)
* TheMuso would do something similar to Imbrandon, but doesn't have enough upstream bandwidth to support more than a few listeners, if that.
<imbrandon> heh i dont have much, but i only have 2 or 3 listners soo
<imbrandon> 8dn/1up
<TheMuso> If dreamhost had icecast support, well that would be another story.
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> something happened, I can't hear it anymore
<imbrandon> you might have droped, relick the link
<imbrandon> re-click
<bmonty> I have some recordings of finger nails on chalk boards and my son screaming if you guys are interested :)
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> heh no thanks.
<ajmitch> bmonty: I'll pass on that thanks
* imbrandon has kiss playing now, and something he forgot queud up
<LaserJock> I don't know what to use to listen to it
<imbrandon> queued*
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i'm using amarok to listen
<LaserJock> oh, well totem seems to be working ok
<TheMuso> LaserJock: What were you using?
<imbrandon> most anything that will play ogg will
<imbrandon> do the titles of the songs get streamed too ?
<TheMuso> Yes.
<imbrandon> ahh cool
<bmonty> link?
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com:8000/mpd.ogg.m3u
<LaserJock> TheMuso: rhythmbox
<bmonty> yuk
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Right.
<imbrandon> bmonty, no like?
<imbrandon> heh this is the first "slower" song i've played
<bmonty> nope, I'm definately not a lionel richie fan
<TheMuso> Rhythmbox doesn't have gappless playback yet does it.
<TheMuso> I know mpd does.
<TheMuso> WHich was another thing that got me hooked on it.
<imbrandon> yea if i could get dreamhost streaming going i would stream full time
<imbrandon> just put my collection on random
<bmonty> good choice
<TheMuso> Would help get through some of that bandwidth.
<imbrandon> does mpd pick up new songs if you add them to the directory ?
<TheMuso> No, you have to update the  db and the playlist.
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> that kinda sucks
<TheMuso> Doesn't bother me.
<TheMuso> You could set up a cron job to do it though. :)
<TheMuso> You'd have to make sure you don't add duplicate entries however.
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> my collection is pretty scattered
<TheMuso> Heh right.
<imbrandon> i need to clean it up
<imbrandon> i have every thing from bach to nelly
* TheMuso is in the middle of re-ripping everything, to ensure directory structure consistancy, and to put it all in FLAC.
<TheMuso> Nelly? eeeew
<imbrandon> heh
<freeflying> imbrandon: hi
<imbrandon> heya freeflying
<imbrandon> i think this is my anthem
<imbrandon> :)
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> does anyone have a working hibernate in kubuntu edgy?
<imbrandon> foood, bbiab
<Amaranth> So if I was staying a night at the hotel Canonical setup, anyone know how to get there from the airport?
<Amaranth> without driving or taking a cab the whole way, if possible
<ajmitch> caltrain to sunnyvale, taxi from the train station?
<Amaranth> ah
<ajmitch> what airport?
<Amaranth> SFO
<Amaranth> that's the wild palms in sunnyvale then?
<ajmitch> yeah
<Amaranth> 8 miles away from google
<ajmitch> yep
<imbrandon> yea caltrain looks like the way to go, much cheaper than a shuttle
<imbrandon> like 10x less it looks like
<zul> do you have to book the shuttle online or couldnt you do it at the airport
* LaserJock will be cruising around in his minivan
<zul> ooh come and pick me up then ;)
<LaserJock> or maybe I can get my wife's cousin to drop me off
<imbrandon> LaserJock, you wont be there the 4th though right ?
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> is that Saturday?
<imbrandon> zul, i guess at the airport, i think i'm gonna take a train ride
<imbrandon> friday
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> saturday
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> I was going to say
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I'll be in Mt. View on Saturday night
<LaserJock> I'm going to spend Saturday with my Grandparents in Sacramento
<LaserJock> I haven't seen my grandpa since he got diagnosed with cancer
<zul> thats nice
<zul> except the cancer bit
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> err well cept for grandpa
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> yeah, it's been interesting
<LaserJock> he seems to be doing well with the chemo
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so you won't be there to pick me up at the airport on saturday morning? :)
<ajmitch> well, lunchtime
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> how disappointing ;)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, what time do you get there ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: when do you get in?
<_nixternal> ajmitch: please don't talk about food
<imbrandon> 1030am
<_nixternal> im sittin' in class and my gut is rumbling
<zul> he lj shuttleservice
<ajmitch> imbrandon: 11:15 to SFO
<LaserJock> zul: heh, no thanks
<imbrandon> i think elk is on that flight
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> she's on an earlier flight
<ajmitch> mpt & infinity are on the flight I'm on
<imbrandon> she arrives about that time
<ajmitch> she gets in at 9:40 or so
<zul> damn it am i the only one going to sjc
<LaserJock> I'm from Montana, the bay area is a nightmare to drive around
<imbrandon> ahh thats right
<imbrandon> <elkbuntu> 10:59:22 Terminal Not Available 10:05
<imbrandon> so we're all within a few minutes
<imbrandon> her at 10 me at 1030 and yall at 1115
<ajmitch> yeah
<imbrandon> zul, probably
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i was thinking about taking caltrain after looking at the map
<imbrandon> from the airport to sunnyvale
<zul> the hotel apparently does have wireless
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you could just wait around the airport for awhile for us :)
<imbrandon> gah brb phone
<zakame> hmm which packages control hibernate? acpi-support?
<LaserJock> I can't believe you guys are stuck in sunnyvale
<LaserJock> I thought Paris was bad
<LaserJock> but at least we were staying in the same city
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i had planned on it if you wanted , it wont be a long wait ( probably take me that long to get my luggage )
<imbrandon> only 45 min
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it'll take awhile for me, since I've got to go through customs
<ajmitch> which tends to not be too long
<imbrandon> ahh thats right, but thats no biggie really
<ajmitch> at least I've been to SFO before :)
<zul> yeah just dont bring any vegemite
<LaserJock> yucky yucky
<imbrandon> i'll probably try to find a hotspot and check my mail or something while i wait
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you know how far the caltrain station is from the airport?
<imbrandon> it says its AT the airport
<ajmitch> hm, the map said otherwise, but I think it is at the airport
<imbrandon> and then 2.3 miles from the hotel
<_nixternal> i can have sam pick everyone up, but no looking at my gf!
<imbrandon> in sunnyvale
<ajmitch> seems like there's wireless at the airport, but you have to pay
<imbrandon> http://www.caltrain.com/caltrain_stations.html
<ajmitch> _nixternal: haha
<imbrandon> first one in zone 2
<imbrandon> is the airport
<imbrandon> millbrae
<ajmitch> yeah, see the map for it
<_nixternal> ya, if i get my walking papers to miss school next week, I will be there Friday..I have it planned to just stay with here for a couple of reasons, but it won't cost me a dime..plus she works at Google ;)
<imbrandon> ahh yea it seems to be off a bit, but i bet the map is wrong
<ajmitch> I hope so
<_nixternal> what color is meeting going to be in?
<_nixternal> or the uds rather
<ajmitch> "At Millbrae station pick up the free shuttle bus for transfer to the airport."
<imbrandon> no idea _nixternal
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ahhh probably not from the airport TO the station
<_nixternal> red and blue are the coolest, green is marketing and sales (go figure), i yellow is off limits if i remember correctly
<imbrandon> hrm
<LaserJock> they better have the stupid onramp for 101 fixed, last time I spent 30 min going around in circles trying to figure out how to get from Highway 580 onto 101
<_nixternal> there also used to be a "Tech Corridor" Shuttle there as well..don't know if it is still there though
<ajmitch> "To access San Francisco International Airport, BART is operating a train about every 15 minutes between the Millbrae station and SFO. All passengers must purchase a ticket before boarding."
<ajmitch> http://www.caltrain.com/faqs.html
<_nixternal> heh, be careful on BART
<zul> how come?
<_nixternal> there is a whole nother meaning to "Bay Area" rapid transit
<ajmitch> I'm sure if a group of us travel from the airport it won't be too bad
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
<_nixternal> depending on the locale, but going southwest towards google shall be fine, you just don't want to head towards oakland on it
<imbrandon> i'll just stick arround and wait for yall
<imbrandon> and see if elkbuntu wants too also ( ping ? )
<imbrandon> heh someone make a big ubuntu sign so we can all see where to meetup lol
<ajmitch> she may not want to wait that long
<imbrandon> ajmitch, true
<ajmitch> depends which terminal we meet in, too
<imbrandon> not only that she will probably get out of customs about the time i arrive
<imbrandon> becosue its only 30 minutes diffrence
<ajmitch> true
<_nixternal> 30 minutes in customs?  that would be super duper fast
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder what terminal i'm comming in on
<_nixternal> i spent an hour coming from canada last month, without 1 shoe
<_nixternal> haha
<zul> canadian customs is nothing
<_nixternal> it is easier to come across the border with an elephant and a mariacchi band then it is to get through customs
<_nixternal> canadian customs was through the metal detector, and the plain
<_nixternal> plane as well
<_nixternal> but chicago o'hare, coming from the plane, back through customs, was over an hour..they took my 1 shoe for testing
<_nixternal> no place to sit..i was mad as all heck
<zul> _nixternal, next time just say aboot and eh and it will go quicker
<_nixternal> lol
<_nixternal> they would have marked me a terrorist...since i have a common name im on their "check" list
<_nixternal> so is my dad
<ajmitch> the 1 time I've been to the US, I had no problems
<zul> yeah you dont want the rcmp after you
<_nixternal> ajmitch: well, we are at level orange..gahahahaha i couldn't even finish that joke
<zul> heh last time i was in the us was at niagra falls
<_nixternal> gahah..i got a lil tanked with a mounty..they are cool
<zul> not if your last name is arar hah
<_nixternal> that was in Banf, Alberta
<_nixternal> hahaa
<LaserJock> at UDS-Paris, the CDG cattle chute was the worst part
<imbrandon> ?
<imbrandon> 12.8 C in SF saturday
<ajmitch> not too bad
<ajmitch> 17.5C in dunedin at the moment
<LaserJock> imbrandon: at CDG they just put you in a big funnel for security
<imbrandon> heh
<zul> heh low of -7C in ottawa on saturday im leaving at the right time
<imbrandon> its a whole 1C right now here
<_nixternal> LaserJock: terminal 2a?
<LaserJock> _nixternal: ?
<_nixternal> coming from the terminal into that funnel
<_nixternal> i sat my laptop bag down and forgot it
<ajmitch> ouch
<_nixternal> not really..it was the companies ;)
<ajmitch> I've got a backpack for my laptop
<ajmitch> much easier to carry round airports for hours on end
<imbrandon> yea i was thinking about a backpack
<imbrandon> for my lappy
<_nixternal> i was on my way to belgium..where the company Real was out of..they bought our company (TAVA) in 2000
<imbrandon> ajmitch, look like i get in SF in terminal 1, you know what one you all got ?
<ajmitch> international terminal, I think it's 3
<_nixternal> they will be in the international
<_nixternal> way far away from 1
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> it's not that far
<_nixternal> oh, its a good jot
<imbrandon> ok well since i get there first i'll come to your term
<_nixternal> imbrandon: it will take you all day to get there...walk 100', smoke break, mt. dew, walk another 100', repeat
<ajmitch> ok, international terminal != terminal 3
<bddebian> haha
<imbrandon> LOL
<_nixternal> imbrandon: if i remember correctly...you have to goto them actually
<imbrandon> heh thats what i said :)
<_nixternal> you can drive to the international terminal, walking would stink, but they have the escalator things iirc, like o'hare does
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, hmm?
<imbrandon> heya chick
<imbrandon> fancy waiting for ajmitch and crew with us ?>
<ajmitch> imbrandon: BART station in in the international terminal, if we plan to get that to the caltrain station
<imbrandon> ajmitch,
<imbrandon> ok
<elkbuntu> no problemo
<imbrandon> we could just meet at the BART station then probably would be the easiest
<ajmitch> hey elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> how long a wait?
<ajmitch> yeah, if we get the right one
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: my flight lands at 11:15
<imbrandon> elkbuntu, it will be about 1hours 15 minutes for you
<ajmitch> so it could be a little while
<imbrandon> is there more than one BART station ?
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, i land at 9:42
<ajmitch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_International_Airport_%28BART_station%29
<imbrandon> ahh i was thinking you said 1005
<elkbuntu> but hour and a half aint bad
<ajmitch> imbrandon: looks like there's 1 station on 2 levels, or something silly
<imbrandon> ahh /me looks
<ajmitch> ah, 2 entrances to it, according to wikipedia
<ajmitch> http://www.bart.gov/guide/airport/sfo.asp <-- confusing
<ajmitch> airtrain station is free, to the BART station :)
<LaserJock> well, San Fran area is a bit confusing
<ajmitch> so we meet at BART station, I guess
<ajmitch> I'll see if I can find mpt & infinity as well
<imbrandon> There are two entrances and exits  one on level 3, adjacent to the grand foyer off the north side of the International Terminal; and the other is a level up at the Garage G/BART AirTrain station.
<imbrandon> from the wiki
<imbrandon> so i guess level 3 at the BART station as we likely wont have a reason to be in the garage
<imbrandon> elkbuntu, ajmitch ^
<imbrandon> oh wow i just realized i'll be surrounded by AU/NZ accents
<elkbuntu> lol
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that's fine :)
<imbrandon> kk /me wrote it on his itenerary so he dosent forget
<ajmitch> I'll be getting off caltrain at MV
<ajmitch> & probably getting a taxi to the hotel I'm at
<imbrandon> yea , me and elk will go onto sunnyvale
<imbrandon> i looked the trainstaion from there to the hotel is 2 miles ( too far to walk with luggage )
<ajmitch> & any others going there
<imbrandon> so likely a cab
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> I'm sorry I probably won't be over there in time
<LaserJock> I could shuttle you guys to the hotel
<LaserJock> although I'd probably get lost anyway
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> yeah, I haven't checked distance for the hotel I'm at
<LaserJock> ajmitch: are you in Mt. View?
<bddebian> I hate you all :-)
<ajmitch> 1.3 mi (about 2 mins)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yeah, but it's a little distance from the train station
<ajmitch> I could probably walk it in a few minutes, the suitcase has wheels
<ajmitch> basically just 1 mile down a street
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> mine does too ( wheels ) but i dunno, guess i'll see when i get there , likely will cab it though
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder how easy it'll be to get a cab
<LaserJock> I'd guess around a train station there'd be something
<ajmitch> should be simple
<_MMA_> Anyone here use Eyas reservations?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so when will you grace us with your presence?
<imbrandon> Eyas as in the company canonical recomended ?
<_MMA_> Yea.
<imbrandon> yea i did
<_MMA_> Did they mess up your name?
<imbrandon> no
<_MMA_> they tacked on "mr" to my 1st name.
<LaserJock> well, I'll be at Google Sunday morning
<LaserJock> _MMA_: that's normal
<imbrandon> _MMA_, yea that means your a male :) its normal
<_MMA_> Wont the airport hastel me?
<_MMA_> hassel
<Burgwork> nope
<imbrandon> no
<Burgwork> unless you are not, in fact, male
<LaserJock> _MMA_: I had to email them asking about it too :-)
<_MMA_> Only in my dreams.
<imbrandon> heh i dont wanna know
<_MMA_> Ahh... Ok.
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> joejaxx and I had the same issue.
<joejaxx> the problem with me is
<joejaxx> i am leaving from newark library international airport
<joejaxx> == chaos city
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> LaserJock: the other thing is i have a numeral on the end of my name
<LaserJock> joejaxx: cause of your name?
<ajmitch> _MMA_: I had the same problem for bookings to UDU
<ajmitch> it's not a problem at all
<_MMA_> Good to know.
<LaserJock> uggg, this wiki work is tedious
<LaserJock> Full Text searches periodically stop working
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes
<joejaxx> but on the itinerary the numeral is not there
<ajmitch> hm, it might only be about a 30-40 minute walk from your hotel to where I'm staying
<ajmitch> I might do that on saturday
<ajmitch> I was wrong, I thought it was on another street
<ajmitch> oh well
<joejaxx> it should be interesting to see everyone in person
<imbrandon> ajmitch, or a 5 min train ride and a 10 minute walk
<imbrandon> from hotel to hotel
* imbrandon just hopes sebas dosent end up with another foot in the face this time
<joejaxx> ?
<LaserJock> I doubt it
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> joejaxx, sebeas ended up in a slight altercation in paris
<joejaxx> :(
<imbrandon> joejaxx, http://kwwii.blogspot.com/
<imbrandon> kwwii hasent posted since then so its still on top
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> imbrandon: oh?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: wow
<ajmitch> that's sad
<joejaxx> is Mr. Kuegler, S e v e a s?
<ajmitch> no
<joejaxx> i must be mixing people up
<joejaxx> what is MR. Kuegler's irc name?
<joejaxx> Mr.*
<imbrandon> sebeas
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> v and b
<imbrandon> dennis k. is Seve^as
<joejaxx> yes
<joejaxx> i was confusing the names :\
<Burgwork> interesting: distrowatch 7 day stats: 4  	Xubuntu  	1069 up, 6  	Kubuntu  	986 up
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> xubuntu getting some love
<Burgwork> yep
<joejaxx> what kinds of stats are those?
<Burgwork> hits on the various distrowatch pages, one per IP per day
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> haha we are still on the waiting list
<ajmitch> jdub is smoking something again
<ajmitch> see his zombies post
<LaserJock> yeah, it's was kinda rambling
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> he to goofy to make a good zombie though
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> he has been known to be serious
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> he's a lot of fun
<StevenK> w
<StevenK> Whoops.
<LaserJock> alrighty
<LaserJock> I trimmed off  ~30 redirects
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> wow , yea i dont understand jdub's post at all
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> ok, I created a MOTU wiki sandbox
<LaserJock> to put temp/draft pages
<LaserJock> is anybody alive?
<LaserJock> :-)
<giskard> :) but i'm going to school :)
<giskard> see you later.
<imbrandon> gnight all
* imbrandon heads to bed
<crimsun> alive? pssht.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: this early? you sound like you're moving away from your European schedule
<imbrandon> heh trying too for MTV
<imbrandon> i'm almost on a normal schedule
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> that will never happen
<imbrandon> it will for a week
<imbrandon> then go back to normal
<nixternal> he is a european hillbilly
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> well, UDS isn't looking to hot, but if all else fails, at least i get to hang out with rms on saturday
<imbrandon> as long as he stays away from mtv i'm good
<crimsun> man, I'm just getting no comments on this dapper-proposed SRU.
<imbrandon> what one ?
<nixternal> crimsun: just add some political humor to it, you will get plenty of comments, although probably not the comments you are looking for
<crimsun> bug 62855
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62855 in alsa-lib "Stereo line-in capture broken in alsa-lib 1.0.10 for "simple mixer" cards." [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62855
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<dholbach> good morning
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey LaserJock
<kkubasik> or goodnight if you happen to be a loser like me who's still preping for a physics exam
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> physics!
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<LaserJock> dholbach: I've been working on the MOTU wiki today
<dholbach> kkubasik: all the best with that exam!
<kkubasik> dholbach: thanks much!
<dholbach> LaserJock: I'll have a look at the myriads of wiki mails in a bit ;)
<LaserJock> it's not so visible right now, but I got rid of a lot of clutter
<LaserJock> deleted ~30 pages there were just redirects
<LaserJock> and created MOTU/SandBox
<LaserJock> as a place for people to put drafts, etc.
<LaserJock> one thing I've noticed is that it's hard to tell if a page is a work in progress
<LaserJock> or if it's a finished, stable page
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: in deleting redirects, you may have caused issues
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I checked them
<kkubasik> agreed, when I was looking for info, it was quite hard to tell if
<Burgundavia> ok, just checking :)
<kkubasik> something is done
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: googled and full text search in the wiki
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I either fixed broken links or left redirects that had lots of links to them
<LaserJock> next step is to clean up existing pages, making sure they are updated, perhaps merging some pages together
<LaserJock> then restructuring the main MOTU page so info is easier to get to
<ajmitch> hi all
<ajmitch> dholbach: how goes the SRU battle? :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: there is no battle
<dholbach> I wished that some people followed up with there preferences
<Hobbsee> why is the SRU thing so hard anyway?
<ajmitch> dholbach: the battle to get a team together quickly, not between MOTUs
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<dholbach> ajmitch: I said I'd do it Friday, no?
<dholbach> so everybody could have their chance proposing their favourite MOTU :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: why not just nominate all of the MOTU's - that seems to be what's happening :P
* ajmitch is still waiting to receive mail that's in the archives
<dholbach> that's fine with me, but if 10 people voted for MOTU a, another 8 for MOTU b, ... it'd make things easier
<dholbach> anyway... don't complain if I pick random people in the end
* dholbach pout
<dholbach> s
<ajmitch> oh I'm not complaining
<Hobbsee> i got nominated once, so that can be ignored :)
<dholbach> Hobbsee: everybody did ;)
<ajmitch> most people did, yes
<Hobbsee> dholbach: excellent!  :D
<LaserJock> dholbach: imbrandon's email sort of settled it for me
<dholbach> LaserJock: hum, I'm not quite sure I understand that post - did imbrandon just pick some people for the team there?
<LaserJock> yep
<dholbach> that's not what was discussed before
<LaserJock> well, I nominated too many it seems
<LaserJock> so we wanted to shorten the list
<Hobbsee> and it seems like few will reject it
<LaserJock> only Hobbsee and StevenK haven't accepted their nomination from that list
* Hobbsee likely wont
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: trouble was, neither of us seriously thought about it, before our names got chucked up there.  give us each a bit of time :P
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock
* dholbach follows up
<ajmitch> dholbach: -uvf was just for edgy, right?
<ajmitch> team membership, I mean
<dholbach> ajmitch: yeah, we should agree on a new team before feisty's UniverseFreeze
<ajmitch> right
* ajmitch removes self
<dholbach> and maybe we get a better voting mechanism together
<ajmitch> yeah
<LaserJock> dholbach: but I though you were MOTU sabdfl ;-)
<LaserJock> who need voting :-)
<LaserJock> *needs
<ajmitch> voting is good if it actually works
<Hobbsee> true
<dholbach> we'll improve on that
* dholbach is confident
<LaserJock> well, so far from what I've seen, votes during meetings are the most effective and fast
<ajmitch> only if you have a short list of names
<LaserJock> yeah, but I think we could have come to a pretty swift consensus in an IRC meeting
<LaserJock> organizing the meeting is the difficult part
<dholbach> decoupling from IRC! :)
<minghua> I'll reply imbrandon's mail to pick my favorite then, since dholbach wants everybody's opinion
<dholbach> minghua: pick whoever you want, not just from that list
<minghua> dholbach: but not much point if I pick someone who hasn't accepted nomination yet, is it?
<Hobbsee> minghua: sure it is
<dholbach> minghua: if he/she accepts after your post, that's cool
<dholbach> as I said: friday night, saturday morning, the team will be ready
<minghua> let me decline the nomination for me first...
<ajmitch> dholbach: we're not trying to pressure you, don't worry :)
<dholbach> chipx86 as lego man: http://flickr.com/photos/chipx86/285519943/ :-)
<minghua> Hobbsee: err... by "sure it is", do you mean there is a point or not?
<ajmitch> hehe
<minghua> Hobbsee: if there is, what is the point?  like dholbach said, to make him/her accept?
<Hobbsee> minghua: oh, sorry.  as in, you may as well.  just because they havent responded yet doestn necessarily say that they mean know
<Hobbsee> er, doesnt necessarily say that they're going to decline
* Hobbsee kicks her brain
<Hobbsee> minghua: it'd probably help to know if more people supported them
<minghua> Hobbsee: yeah, makes sense
* minghua goes nominate Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> i dont get it, why are people nominating me???
<Hobbsee> :P
<LaserJock> cause you're cute and cuddly like the ponies we so desperately want
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: because people think you'll do a good job
<LaserJock> oops, did I say that out loud? :-)
<Hobbsee> hah
<poningru> hahahaha mako in an ad for acm
<minghua> Err... is there regular moderating for ubuntu-motu mailing list?
* minghua changed the email address to @ubuntu.com one and the mails got hold :-(
<LaserJock> did he fall asleep on his keyboard?
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> must have :)
* LaserJock chalks it up to a KDE thing ;-)
<ajmitch> haha
* LaserJock finds peace in ignoring joins/parts
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<Adri2000> slomo: here?
<slomo> Adri2000: sure
<Adri2000> why liferea is 0ubuntu? it is already in Debian
<slomo> Admiral_Chicago: because debian still has a much older version than we habe
<slomo> Adri2000: ^---
<slomo> they're at 1.0.18-1, we're at 1.0.23-0ubuntu1
<Admiral_Chicago> slomo: ?
<slomo> Admiral_Chicago: sorry, xchat's bad nickname autocompletion :/
<Admiral_Chicago> slomo: ah it's all good. Konversation is much better
<Adri2000> slomo: ok, I saw that
<Adri2000> "a new version will be uploaded in the next few days." said the maintainer on 15th october
<Adri2000> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=393160
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 393160 in liferea "liferea: Package outdated" [Normal,Open] 
<slomo> so what? :)
<Adri2000> don't know :p
<Admiral_Chicago> i just got pwnt on digg. i was about to upload the KDE 4.0 story but got beat out because i took to look hunting down the right link
<luisbg> debian/rules:19: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk: Doesn't exit
<luisbg> exist
<ogra> missing build-dep on quilt i'd guess
<luisbg> gonna check
<luisbg> ogra, you were right, quilt was the one
<luisbg> ogra, can you make me a small favour?
<LaserJock> luisbg: I think he's in a meeting, is it something I can help you with?
<luisbg> LaserJock, check what I did here...
<luisbg> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ardour/+bug/51635
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51635 in ardour "missing dependencies" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<LaserJock> luisbg: does it need a particular version of jackd?
<luisbg> imo no
<LaserJock> then that looks fine to me
<luisbg> ok cool, just checking =)
<luisbg> still don't have too much confidence in myself
<luisbg> LaserJock, I joined the ubuntu studio team
<LaserJock> good
<luisbg> they are starting so need loads of help
<luisbg> and since loads of it is non technical
<luisbg> I've been all day helping
<luisbg> LaserJock, will ask for help when we try to package cinelerra
<LaserJock> :-)
<luisbg> I've heard it's hell to package
<luisbg> a few have tried before
<luisbg> LaserJock, are apps that need java hard to package?
<LaserJock> it's not that they are hard to package
<LaserJock> but they are usually not so cool because Sun's Java is not Free
<LaserJock> if they can a Free java VM then it not bad
<ajmitch> morning
<luisbg> how does azureus does it?
<luisbg> hey ajmitch
<LaserJock> luisbg: look at apt-cache show azureus
<luisbg> I see
<Amaranth> crimsun: ping?
<crimsun> Amaranth: pong
<Amaranth> PM?
<crimsun> sure
<yotux> have a question about packaging
<luisbg> is there a guide for java application packaging in ubuntu?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> Debian has a Java policy though, I think
<crimsun> Amaranth: I'm here, my responses haven't gone through
<ajmitch> hi crimsun
<crimsun> (being unidentified and all)
<Amaranth> crimsun: oh
<crimsun> hi ajmitch
<Amaranth> i forget how to turn that off
<LaserJock> why are we turning that off?
<LaserJock> grrr, is there a way to sort/filter subscribed specs
<luisbg> LaserJock, I have read the debian java policy
<luisbg> but looking to the azureus package and original source... they are very different
<luisbg> and that confuses me
<rgl> hello
<LaserJock> darn it
<LaserJock> I forgot to bring a NIC in to work
<LaserJock> I guess that'll teach me to not toss out all the junker computers
* bhale looks at the box of NICS under his desk
<bhale> 4 port GIG-E
<LaserJock> bhale: ggrr
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to find something that's not ISA
<bhale> they are like $500 a piece, freaking ridiculous
<bhale> PCIE
<LaserJock> \o/ found one. hopefully it's not dead
<Amaranth> PCI-E 4 port GIG-E?
<bhale> Amaranth: yes
<Amaranth> i hope they've also got that hardware assist crap
<bhale> i cant get enough of them
<Amaranth> unless you have a beast of a machine managing all the data
<bhale> sniffer ports
<bhale> hm i put 3 in a box dude :)
<LaserJock> hmm, is there a way to totally reset the network settings
<LaserJock> my box seems to think there's an eth0 that isn't there
<LaserJock> but it puts the real eth0 as eth2
<bhale>  /etc/iftab
<bhale> you can map names to mac addresses
<LaserJock> geeze my networking is hosed
<LaserJock> it's all because the onboard LAN seems to have died
<LaserJock> how is iftab created?
<LaserJock> automatically at boot?
<bhale> i think by the installer
<bhale> if you comment it out
<bhale> udev does whatever it feels like
<Amaranth> yay for randomly changing network device names :P
<bhale> yeah it rules
<LaserJock> well, if the gnome networking tool didn't seem to do weird things it'd be nice
<LaserJock> darn it, I'm so close to reinstalling just so I can get some networking
<ajmitch> gah, forums
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what now?
<ajmitch> just crap
<LaserJock> I want to believe I was never that kind of forum user :/
<ajmitch> I really shouldn't read them, they're bad for my health
<LaserJock> well, luckily the "Education and Science" subforum was started
<LaserJock> I can just go there
<LaserJock> and not wander around too much :-)
<ajmitch> I was reading the feisty section
<imbrandon> moins fella's
<LaserJock> ok, here's a question, do we have an easy way to see what packages are in -proposed?
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> hrm not that i know of
<imbrandon> ajmitch, there is a feisty section ?
<Burgwork> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya Burgwork
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I added edgy-proposed to my sources list, but then I realized that I wouldn't know if I was testing something or not :/
<imbrandon> you can madison and see where its comming from
<LaserJock> but I'd have to madison everything
<imbrandon> on a per package basis
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> that sucks
<LaserJock> it was just a  thought
<imbrandon> hrm
<LaserJock> I thought maybe there might be a proposed.ubuntu.com or something like that that listed the contents of the repo
<imbrandon> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy-proposed/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz looks empty
<ajmitch> imbrandon: of course there's a feisty section, where else do they come up with this crap?
<imbrandon> haha
<LaserJock> I thought the Ubuntu fairies waved their magic wands of the DC
<LaserJock> s/of/over/
<ajmitch> some of the forum people think that
* imbrandon looks for the feisty section
<ajmitch> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=179
<ajmitch> people that can't dist-upgrade to feisty because they spell it fiesty in sources.list :)
<whiprush> that was awesp,e
<whiprush> awesome even
<whiprush> sorry, new keyboard.
<ajmitch> hey whiprush!
<LaserJock> that one's going to bite me
<whiprush> hi aj
<imbrandon> heya whiprush
<LaserJock> I know I'm going to get an uploaded rejected cause I'll spell it wrong
<whiprush> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> ajmitch, rockin ( next question is why they are dist upgrading to feisty now anyhow )
<lifeless> clearly it should be spelt fisty
<lifeless> that way there would be no confusion
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> maybe I'll have to write a script that says, "It's feisty stupid"
<whiprush> it's hoary not whorey!
<ajmitch> imbrandon: "because they can"
<ajmitch> LaserJock: dput hooks
<LaserJock> imbrandon: got you're music stream going?
<mr_pouit> does someone have a good exemple of a package using debconf ? or a link to a good explanation ?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, no but i can fire it up
<imbrandon> mr_pouit, xorg ?
<mr_pouit> imbrandon, ok, thanks, i will look at it
<ajmitch> imbrandon: people always want the latest & greatest crack, no matter how broken
<LaserJock> mr_pouit: just a sec, there's a good reference, let me find it
<LaserJock> mr_pouit: http://www.fifi.org/doc/debconf-doc/tutorial.html
<mr_pouit> thanks :)
<LaserJock> I somewhat question the helpfulness of a " UDS Mountain View : Call for specs for Feisty" on the forums
<imbrandon> specialy when the instructions was to make a forum thread
<imbrandon> about it
<ajmitch> somehow, I don't think a single sentence is enough for a thread
<LaserJock> well, it seems like we have waaay too many specs
<LaserJock> I think specs have somewhat turned into basically  feature requests
<whiprush> LaserJock: indeed.
<whiprush> Pet Bug fixes please
<LaserJock> I'm worried that we'll have to start weeding them out
<LaserJock> and then it looks like we're the bad guys
<LaserJock> well, mdz anyway ;-)
<TheMuso> There were heaps for Paris.
<whiprush> there needs to be a "We Know" mechanism someplace.
<TheMuso> Not all wre looked at afaik.
<LaserJock> not close
<LaserJock> and I think we might have more this time
<TheMuso> Fun fun fun.
<TheMuso> Just when the spec process was useful for new feature development, it looks like there may have to be tighter restrictions on who can do it next time.
<TheMuso> If it needs to be kept under control.
<LaserJock> if you figure 3 BOFs / spec
<TheMuso> But I know thats not always fair for those who have good spec ideas.
<LaserJock> you get about 20-30 specs
<LaserJock> if you do 4 tracks
<LaserJock> ~100
<LaserJock> if you're lucky
<TheMuso> Right.
<whiprush> LaserJock: ditto the mailing list.
<ogra> LaserJock, well, spec proposal time is over anyway
<LaserJock> we are at 163 accepted specs for Mt. View
<LaserJock> ogra: it's an older thread
<LaserJock> and I don't know that they care
<ogra> look only at the ones with mid priority and hgher
<ogra> *higher
<LaserJock> the message seems to be "If you write a spec they will have to implement it"
<ajmitch> LaserJock: 163 seems about average
<ogra> the low ones will likely fall off the table again
<LaserJock> ogra: sure, but there are 163 specs proposed
<ajmitch> ogra: considering that just about all of our directory team stuff is undefined, it's not looking so great them
<ogra> s/proposed/accepted/ ;)
<ajmitch> though we'll still have to meet & talk
<LaserJock> ogra: yes
<LaserJock> I'm just saying, I don't think a lot of people have realistic expectations when it comes to a UDS
<ogra> ajmitch, by sunday all 163 should have a prio ...
<whiprush> ajmitch: I was going to go a different approach, get sabdfl hammered saturday night, then have him log into launchpad ...
<LaserJock> haha
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> whiprush: you want to try & drink him under the table?
<LaserJock> whiprush: he might flip a few too many switches though
<whiprush> heh
<LaserJock> oh look, feisty has been released
<LaserJock> doh
<imbrandon> you know the opinoins on the beryl-by-default thread are sane though, i'm suprised, they seem to say the same thing we have been ( make it easy to install but not default )
<imbrandon> first good thread i've seen
<ajmitch> yeah, I was pleasantly surprised
<ajmitch> I wondered if I was on the wrong forum
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> ok, so here's the interesting part for me, there are 909 open specs for ubuntu
<bhale> and?
<LaserJock> it's kinda insane
<bhale> well anyone can write one
<bhale> and there are many duplicates
<LaserJock> yes
<Burgwork> and only certain people can make them obsolete
<imbrandon> how many high and medium ones ?
<Burgwork> the issue is not people writing them
<LaserJock> well, like 2/3 are "Undefined"
<Burgwork> the issue is seperation
<LaserJock> Burgwork: exactly
<Burgwork> by default, only certain people can assign priority
<LaserJock> right now I can't even separate my subscribed specs by product even
<LaserJock> it's rather hard to see what's going on
<LaserJock> it's like one big blob
<imbrandon> make a spec on spec handleing ( scarcasim )
<LaserJock> doh
<imbrandon> sarcasim*
<rgl> can someone help me with this error http://pastie.caboo.se/20906 ?
<rgl> its outputing some weird locale errors :|
<imbrandon> export LC_ALL=C
<TheMuso> Is lp slow for anybody else?
<rgl> I want to use en_US.UTF-8.  but I don't have that on /usr/share/locale/ :(
<imbrandon> en_US.UTF-8 isnt a locale its a language
<imbrandon> it wants the locale set
<imbrandon> e.g export LC_ALL=C
<rgl> huh?  why do I have all the others LC_XXX en_US.UTF-8 ?
<imbrandon>         LANGUAGE = (unset),
<imbrandon>         LC_ALL = (unset),
<imbrandon>         LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ echo $LANGUAGE
<imbrandon> en
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ echo $LC_ALL
<imbrandon> C
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ echo $LANG
<imbrandon> en_US.UTF-8
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$
<imbrandon> rgl, ^^
<rgl> sorry imbrandon , but I want UTF for everything.
<TheMuso> Wow. A spec has been proposed to consider whether ppc will be dropped.
<rgl> I found how to do it.  I have to generate the locale stuff using locale-gen
<bhale> TheMuso: is that so suprising?
<TheMuso> Yes.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea , i dont think it will happen this time though, there are still too many ppc's out there
<imbrandon> maybe next time
<bhale> it will be planned well in advance
<bhale> a few releases away
<TheMuso> Surprising to me at least.
<bhale> it has to happen sometime.
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<bhale> the major vendor has exited
<imbrandon> for desktops , not servers
<bhale> it wasnt there for servers
<imbrandon> thus we'll probably keep the server version like sparcs
<bhale> and we dont support ia64 for example
<bhale> "support"
<imbrandon> we dont support sparc either on the desktop but do on the server
<bhale> ppc isnt going to suddenly disappear as an ubuntu arch
<TheMuso> I know that.
<imbrandon> bhale, my point is sparc is still a canonical supported arch on the server iso's and ibm still cranks out lots of ppc servers :)
<bhale> ok, right on
<imbrandon> but not on the desktop
<bhale> could be the plan
<ChaosFan> wg 43
<ajmitch> imbrandon: and it doesn't mean that we'd drop ppc altogther from support
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> just not from canonical
<finalbeta> How does one propose a package? Is the wiki the "official" way for end users?
<imbrandon> finalbeta, if you want someone else to eventualy get to it put it on the wiki page, if you have already made packages use REVU
<LaserJock> finalbeta: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<finalbeta> thnx
<LaserJock> geeze, how do you register for an LP account?
<LaserJock> I can't find a URL
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/people ?
<ogra> i think you dont see it if you are logged in
<imbrandon> launchpad.net , top right
<LaserJock> oh, must be because I'm logged in
<ogra> ah, right, its top right :)
<ajmitch> left, right, all so confusing :)
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> launchpad is a bit like that :)
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<LaserJock> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey LaserJock
* ajmitch wonders if the new glibc is safe to upgrade to
* giskard thinks that ajmitch is crazy
<lifeless> ajmitch: jbailey has
<ajmitch> I figured he would
<ajmitch> it should be reasonably ok
<ajmitch> however the latest glibc upload isn't built & in the archive yet
<ogra> yeah pitti complained earlier about the buildds
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-03
<LaserJock> oh man
<zul> hmm?
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> you know how my department server went down
<ajmitch> yeah
<zul> its an on going saga but yes :)
<LaserJock> I just got an email that they are discontinuing our accounts
<zul> ouch.
<ajmitch> nasty
<LaserJock> we have to migrate our mail ASAP
<Burgwork> discounting your accounts? are they insane?
<LaserJock> well, the server fried
<LaserJock> and they don't want to pay for maintenance
<LaserJock> it's not a biggie for most people
<LaserJock> but I get 99% of my email forwarded or directly there
<TheMuso> Ouch.
<LaserJock> wahoo, got my MOTU Science scripts spiffed up and ready to go for feisty
<zul> spiffy
<ajmitch> wonderful!
<LaserJock> http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/scripts/
<LaserJock> I'm not that great with shell script yet
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why isn't that a bzr branch?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: cause I never really thought of it
<ajmitch> makes it easier even for personal use
<ajmitch> I've even stuck my pbuilder configs in bzr
<LaserJock> yeah, I probably should
<ajmitch> since they're long & have a few extra features
<LaserJock> anyway, so we have Debian/Ubuntu lists
<LaserJock> and a bug list
<LaserJock> which is nice
<chillywilly> hey guys
<LaserJock> hopefully I can use some of the same stuff to work on MOTU task lists
<luisbg_zZzZZzZz> quick question... for a package to be accepted in motu... besides being well package? has the software need to be useful... or apps in a pre-beta fase are accepted?
<luisbg> I ment universe
<lifeless> luisbg: pretty much anything open source is ok, regardless of status
<luisbg> lifeless, nice =), trying to make a package of this friend's project
<luisbg> well... gotta go sleep, goodnight all
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<Fujitsu> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> Fujitsu!
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I worked a lot on the MOTU Science scripts today
<Fujitsu> What do they do now?
<LaserJock> well, I just cleaned them up
<LaserJock> and got it so they can be automated ( cronjob or something)
<LaserJock> http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/scripts/
<LaserJock> and I put the scripts up ^^
<Fujitsu> Aha.
* Fujitsu looks.
<LaserJock> we need to get lucas to update mdt
<Fujitsu> What about it needs updating?
<LaserJock> well, your patch for outdatedbutlocal
<LaserJock> and cleanup of some urls
<LaserJock> also he's missing a couple deps
<Fujitsu> The best idea is for someone to create a branch of it, and push it to somewhere public.
<Fujitsu> That someone could be me :P
<LaserJock> well, I also need to put these scripts in a bzr repo
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: so do it
* Fujitsu applies the versions2html patch to his local branch.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What URL cleanup is necessary?
<LaserJock> changelogs.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> instead of packages.ubuntu.com
<Fujitsu> My copy here already uses changelogs.ubuntu.com...
<Fujitsu> You must be running an old copy, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> well, that's what I was wondering
<LaserJock> I grabbed a fresh branch
<LaserJock> I thought
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: where'd you get yours?
* Mez -> bed
<Fujitsu> Pulled from http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/multidistrotools/
<LaserJock> :/
<LaserJock> I did the same thing
<LaserJock> but your patch didn't apply cleanly
<LaserJock> maybe something's wrong with my branch
<LaserJock> if we can get it updated on tiber I can run everything off of there
<Fujitsu> My patch didn't apply cleanly on my local copy either :S
<Fujitsu> Hunk 1 failed, as it was missing the merge link.
<Fujitsu> I must have made it from an old copy on another box.
<Fujitsu> My MDT testing seems to be hanging somewhere here :/
* minghua wonders if people have discussed that gnewsense business here
<ajmitch> nope
<LaserJock> what gnewsense?
<Fujitsu> What about it?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ubuntu without the nasty proprietary bits, blessed by the FSF
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> gnubuntu
<minghua> I am just curious if it's a one-man business, but used by FSF to prove a point
<minghua> hmm, s/prove/try to prove/
<ajmitch> minghua: 2-man, at least :)
<LaserJock> well, I wouldn't think it'd be hard
<LaserJock> isn't it Ubuntu - Restricted - Multiverse?
<minghua> LaserJock: kernel firmware
<ajmitch> and launchpad-free
* Fujitsu defects to them.
<LaserJock> hah
<zul> meh...
<ajmitch> bye Fujitsu
<minghua> "in its first release, gNewSense has ... made emacs, ... part of the default install."
<minghua> Boo
* ajmitch waits for a hurd-based derivative
<Fujitsu> ... emacs... Yucky.
<TheMuso> I'm enclined to agree.
<LaserJock> wahoo for emacs
<Fujitsu> OH, I know why mdt took so long.
<Fujitsu> I forgot to filter the package lists... >_>
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Have you managed to get a proper branch of mdt yet?
<LaserJock> what do you mean?
<zul> must stop reading forums..
<Fujitsu> You said your current one used packages.ubuntu.com rather than changelogs.ubuntu.com...
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> well no, I didn't fix that yet
<LaserJock> I have a ton of stuff to do today
<LaserJock> but I did fix his deps
<LaserJock> and applied your patch - that 1 hunk
<minghua> Fujitsu, LaserJock: is there a new url with updated version comparison list I can link from the wiki?
<minghua> Fujitsu, LaserJock: (I think both of you have seen the reply to my mail on -science)
<Fujitsu> minghua: I haven't seen one, I don't think.
<minghua> huh.
<LaserJock> i did
<LaserJock> minghua: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/feisty/all.html
<minghua> LaserJock: thanks
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's a really strange MDT you have there.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: why?
<Fujitsu> It says `MoM' instead of `Merges', and uses p.u.c...
<Fujitsu> *Merge
<LaserJock> I'm branching again
<imbrandon> moins all
<minghua> hi imbrandon
<Fujitsu> Hey imbrandon.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, nice script
<zul> evening imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya zul
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Is your cron job now using an updated copy of the package lists?
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> LaserJock, mind if i use that script for a diffrent set of packages ?
<minghua> some people should package that script :-)
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> mdt is kinda packaged
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: what package lists?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: of course you can, but it's probably crap anyway so use at your own risk ;-)
<imbrandon> hehe where is it at ? on tiber ?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Lists of packages in science/electronics/math.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: those are generated by the scripts
<LaserJock> imbrandon: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/scripts/
<imbrandon> i would like to run this for our KDE stuff
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ok what one do i edit for the package list
<imbrandon> i have them copied to my home dir :)
<LaserJock> generate.bash is the important one
<minghua> heard from #gnewsense:  the splash screen of xdm still says Debian in the ubuntu package, and therefore also says Debian in gnewsense package :-)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: do you have an updated patch?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, so i need to make a $HOME/.multidistrotools ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you need to install multidistrotools
<imbrandon> i'm doing this on tiber also
<LaserJock> oh
<imbrandon> so its probably installed
<LaserJock> then you're all good I think
<imbrandon> i just want to use diffrent package list
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yes, it has an extra thing as well. I'll upload it somewhere.
<Yagisan> anyone here familiar with sdl threads ? and has a spare minute
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/outdatedandlocal.diff
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ok reload http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/feisty/
<Fujitsu> Well, it seems to work.
<Fujitsu> `Generated using MultiDistroTools on Thu Nov 02 23:47:00 UTC 2006'
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Just all.html hasn't been updated recently.
<LaserJock> you sure
<Fujitsu> Ah, 'twas a proxy doing something stupid.
<Fujitsu> I /was/ reconfiguring its caching settings at the time, which might have done it.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ok why am i getting http://tiber.tauware.de/~brandon/all.html
<LaserJock> because the mdt on tiber doesn't have Fujitsu's patch
<imbrandon> ahh
<Fujitsu> If it doesn't have my patch, then why's it generating that state in the first place?
<imbrandon> so your just uploading from localy ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I am for now
* imbrandon tars up his script dir
<imbrandon> is the patch in edgy ?
<LaserJock> mdt isn't even in edgy
<imbrandon> oh wow
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> sid ?
<LaserJock> no
<Fujitsu> No, nothing.
<LaserJock> there is no package
<imbrandon> ok i give up how can i get this working localy then hehe
<imbrandon> ( or better yet on my webserver )
<imbrandon> mdt is bzr or svn or something ?
<imbrandon> or Fujitsu you have a working copy for me ?
<Fujitsu> It's in bzr, see MultiDistroTools on the wiki, then grab my patch from..
<Fujitsu> http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/outdatedandlocal.diff
<Fujitsu> (and apply it)
<imbrandon> k
<LaserJock> I've got it at http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/multidistrotools/
<LaserJock> with dep changes and Fujitsu's patch
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> hrm i should be able to install this on my webserver too without making a deb later
<imbrandon> looks like its just some ruby and bash scripts
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Correct, which means it's horrifically slow.
<imbrandon> ok LaserJockif anyone else askes i tar'd up your script and made a deb ( plus src ) at http://tiber.tauware.de/~brandon/mdt/
<imbrandon> ( with a touched misc in the tar )
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ^^ ( and it has your patch )
* imbrandon sets out to make some KDE ones now
<imbrandon> man i wish the politicians would stop calling
<imbrandon> LaserJock, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29955/ are those ruby errors normal ?
<bmonty> when telemarketers call me I sent them to an asterisk extension that plays the monkeys screaming sound that comes with asterisk :)
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> hahaha
<TheMuso> Whats the state of play concerning packaging FireFox extensions?
<imbrandon> hrm not sure, i dont use any
<w00> *
<imbrandon> ?
<TheMuso> riiiiight.
<ajmitch> someone being silly in multiple channels
<lastnode> imbrandon, we have .debs! :-) http://upstreamdev.org/wiki/Releases/0.1.0
<imbrandon> lastnode, rockin
<LaserJock> imbrandon: not sure
<LaserJock> I don't get those error
<LaserJock> sorry, I had to blow out the sprinkler system
<imbrandon> i only got them on the first run
<imbrandon> so no biggie
<imbrandon> i think there is some flaw in its logic though LaserJock / Fujitsu
<imbrandon> look at amarok
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/feisty/html/all.html
<Fujitsu> You mean ignoring epochs?
<imbrandon> no i mean it says 1.4.4-0.1 is smaller than 2:1.4.3-0ubuntu10
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> i guess it is
<imbrandon> becouse of the epoch
<Fujitsu> Yes, so it's right.
<imbrandon> yea if it would ignore the epochs would be best
<ajmitch> why?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, why what ?
<ajmitch> so you can merge it?
<ajmitch> why ignore epochs?
* ajmitch wonders why the ubuntu package has an epoch anyway
<imbrandon> becosue the report is saying debian is smaller than the ubuntu version but its really not
<imbrandon> someone probably botched an upload
<LaserJock> if it has an epoch it is
<LaserJock> it uses the same logic apt does
<ajmitch> that's because someone was silly enough to add an epoch, so the debian version will be smaller
<imbrandon> yup and really not a way to un-epoch it
<imbrandon> hrm
<ajmitch> no way at all
<ajmitch> that's why they should only be added when *really* needed
<imbrandon> yea
<Fujitsu> It first appeared when a new upstream of 1.4.1 was uploaded, I wonder why...
* ajmitch looks at who to blame
<Fujitsu> What's the use of epochs in the first place?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Ri*ddel
<lifeless> epochs are a way to 'uncommit'
<imbrandon> 1.4.1 would have ben Riddell
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/amarok
<lifeless> if you think of the package as a series of commits to a vcs ;)
<Fujitsu> lifeless: Like, reverting to a previous upstream version?
<ajmitch> epoch was added long before 1.4.1
<lifeless> yah
<Fujitsu> amarok (2:1.4.1-0ubuntu1) edgy; urgency=low
<Fujitsu> amarok (1.4.0a-1) unstable; urgency=low
<ajmitch> the changelog may have been cut
<lifeless> its just a way of saying 'a < b' when the upstream version part of a and b has a > b
<Fujitsu> They are consecutive versions in the changelog...
<Fujitsu> Ah, true.
<ajmitch> or merged
<ajmitch> look lower
<imbrandon> yea they wouldent have started with 2:
<imbrandon> likely
<imbrandon> lifeless, yea but it sucks when ubuntu has it but debian dosent
<lifeless> imbrandon: naturally
<ajmitch> amarok (2:1.2.3-1ubuntu1) hoary; urgency=low
<ajmitch>   * Sync with Debian
<ajmitch>  -- Jonathan Riddell <jr@jriddell.org>  Wed, 30 Mar 2005 04:25:27 +0000
<ajmitch> yeah, so it was riddell, much earlier
<imbrandon> 1.2 wow
<lifeless> the realy defect is that we consider the human version identier as a pun on the machine version marker
<ajmitch> assuming that was the first upload with an epoch
<lifeless> its really close to what tla did.
<ajmitch> which I doubt
<imbrandon> lifeless, huh ?
<imbrandon> i totaly missed the point on that last statement hehe
<imbrandon> hrm there really should be a way to undo an epoc to get back in sync
<imbrandon> ( version wise )
<ajmitch> there isn't
<ajmitch> nothing trumps an epoch
<Fujitsu> Except a higher epoch, which may occur in the next couple of decades.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> Same version in Debian and Ubuntu : 0 packages  <--- thats sad
<lastnode> imbrandon, there are no dapper packages yet, but im assuming you're running edgy :P
<imbrandon> ok can someone explain the debian gwenview versioning thinking to me ?
<imbrandon> feisty but yea
<imbrandon> :)
<lastnode> imbrandon, heh, post python transition, then cool :-)
<imbrandon> gwenview 1.4.0~debian.1-1 	1.4.0-0ubuntu2
<imbrandon> wtf is that
<Fujitsu> Is that two seperate version numbers/
<Fujitsu> *?
<imbrandon> yes
<imbrandon> debian ubuntu
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> They're deranged.
<imbrandon> man
<imbrandon> why cant people stick to the normal way of versioning
<Fujitsu> It looks like it's a special Debian upstream version. :S
<imbrandon> it looks like they ripped the ubuntu version becouse we p[ackaged it first and put ~debian screwing things up
<imbrandon> instead of 1.4.0-1.1 like it should have been
<minghua> so is gwenview 1.4.0 released or not?
<Fujitsu> 1.4.0-1, you mean?
<minghua> if yes, then the debian version number is weird
<imbrandon> err yea
<Fujitsu> Any idea what difference is there between the two upstream tarballs, imbrandon?
<minghua> if not, the ubuntu version number is wrong
<imbrandon> minghua, yes its released many weeks ago
<imbrandon> minghua, even if it wasent released the debian version would be wrong
<minghua> imbrandon: why?
<imbrandon> it would be 1.3.9xxxxxxxx
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: No, the new standard would be 1.4.0~fsdfsdfsdfklsdjflsdkfjlsdf
<Fujitsu> (where that is arbitrary text)
<minghua> imbrandon: maybe it's a cvs/svn snapshot
<imbrandon> standard for what ? beta , rc ? its not labled that way
<imbrandon> minghua, there is no ~svn2006xxxx
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Then 1.4.0~YYYYMMDD, or 1.4.0~rXX
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, exactly
<imbrandon> not ~debian
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<minghua>      + Upstream now splits the translations out into their own tarball.
<minghua>        This is by no means a bad thing, but to avoid having a package stuck
<minghua>        in NEW this close to a release, I'm gluing them back in for the
<minghua>        moment. Once a releasable package is in Etch, I'll adopt upstream's
<minghua>        practices. Hence the wacky package version.
<Jozo-> 1.4.0-1 is in experimental
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<minghua> the debian maintainer has a perfect reason
<Fujitsu> Thankyou minghua.
<Fujitsu> Normally you wouldn't use ~ for that sort of thing, but this is a very special case, so it's suitable.
<crimsun> sheesh, > 70k bugs already
<imbrandon> man
<minghua> he wants to repackage the source, and he also want it to be < 1.4.0 -- as I said, a perfect reason
<imbrandon> imho 1.4.0-1~debian would have been saner but i'm not the DD
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: No.
<minghua> you want either ~debian1 or ~debian.1
<imbrandon> yes 1.4.0-1 > 1.4.0-1~debian
<imbrandon> or yes 1.4.0-1 > 1.4.0-1~debian.1
<Fujitsu> The ~XXX has to go before the hyphen.
<imbrandon> or yes 1.4.0-1 > 1.4.0-1~debian1
<minghua> ah, I misread imbrandon
<minghua> imbrandon: the source tarball version need to be different
<Fujitsu> minghua: precisely.
<minghua> you have xxx-1.4.0~debian.1.orig.tar.gz in this case
<minghua> and you can safely upgrade to xxx-1.4.0.orig.tar.gz
<imbrandon> _ not - , but yea
<imbrandon> i see
<minghua> yeah, _
<LaserJock> arggg, FORTRAN
<imbrandon> either way an new orig.tar.gz has to be uploaded so i really see no diffeence though
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What is?
<LaserJock> I've got to figure out how to use this fortran data fitting program tonight
<minghua> imbrandon: you want the xxx_1.4.0.orig.tar.gz to be the same one as the upstream one, the *debian*.orig.tar.gz to be repacked one, not vice versa
<imbrandon> true
<imbrandon> hrm looks like glibc hit feisty today, maybe it will open soon
<ajmitch> hopefully today or so
<Fujitsu> Sounds good.
* minghua still hasn't found time to install edgy yet :-(
<milc> hehe
<milc> i can't wait for feisty
<imbrandon> milc, 6 months :)
<milc> imbrandon, don't remind me! ;D
<milc> I hope all sabdfl has been talkin about in his blog gets put together
<milc> pretty pretty pretty
* ajmitch shudders
<imbrandon> pretty < stable / working
<ajmitch> we need to get things stable first, edgy hasn't got a good reputation now
<ajmitch> so many bugs..
<imbrandon> exactly
<milc> i didn't mean unstable
<crimsun> but pretty ponies > bugs!
<Fujitsu> milc: Pretty often implies unstable.
<imbrandon> crimsun, ehehe
<Fujitsu> Especially when there are Beryls involved.
<milc> heh, right now it means unstable, but it shouldn't
<minghua> saying it shouldn't doesn't help though
<milc> i by no means implied it did
<imbrandon> milc, no it really always has if you think about it , pretty is always considered the newest untested code, e.g. beryl, once beryl becomes stable it will be old hat and something else will be "pretty"
<milc> hmm, that's an interesting way of viewing things
<milc> I don't in general see it that way, but your point is valid
<milc> Well, I'll rephrase, I hope we get some pretty stability! :D
<imbrandon> stable bling, heh is that an oxymoron ?
<milc> I hope one day it isn't.  Then again I'm easy to please as far as bling goes, i find edgy gorgeous...
<milc> but not in snazzy graphic effects like xgl+compiz or anything like that, just pretty in general
<tritium> but buggy, nonetheless
<imbrandon> yea pretty slow and unstable :)
<milc> I haven't really experienced any bugs since just before the release
<milc> but i hear there are lots
<ajmitch> how could you say such a thing, imbrandon? ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<tritium> milc: I have
* milc presses the mute button on imbrandon's controller
<imbrandon> once i can run it on my i810 with a 2.9ghz celeron and 1.5 gig ram at the same speeds as i currently have with kwin I'll advocate it for default
<imbrandon> but i dont think that day is soon
<crimsun> it's coming next week!
<Fujitsu> crimsun: I heard it was tomorrow!
<ajmitch> crimsun: we believe you
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> really
<imbrandon> ajmitch, how was it on you x86 ?
<imbrandon> your*
<milc> runs fine on my x86, I'm actually pleased with gnome on here
<milc> but i'm easy to please
<imbrandon> its pretty unbearably slow for day to day use on here with gnome or kde
<imbrandon> and i dont have *that* slow of a computer
<ajmitch> imbrandon: not too slow with nearly everything turned off
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i dident try to turn most of it off
<ajmitch> animations were the worst
<milc> imbrandon, wow, that stinks, mine is a 1.5 GHz pentium M with 512 MB RAM
<crimsun> I'm happy enough with simple transparency
<imbrandon> all i want is tranparency , wobbly windows, and the cube
<imbrandon> everything else can go
<Fujitsu> All I want is screen :P
<imbrandon> lol
<milc> lol
<imbrandon> brb food
<tritium> wobbly windows make me dizzy
<tritium> I'd settle for evolution giving me appointment alarms
<milc> hehe
<milc> wobbly windows get really annoying imo
<milc> when you wanna line everything up they're always wobblin
<milc> it's like trying to line up a bunch of 5 year olds
<imbrandon> wonder how many universe packages will be affected by that kernel change
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: We should be able to find out fairly quickly.
<imbrandon> well i mean the split in linux/if_*.h
<imbrandon> my guess is there isnt many universe packages that depends on that but i could be wrong
<Fujitsu> I meant that as well.
<imbrandon> yea just makin sure you dident think i meant just a new version :)
<_MMA_> I wonder if theres gonna be any girls there? :)
<_MMA_> Or just a buncha geeky white guys. :)
<_MMA_> Crap.Im a tard. :_)
<crimsun> there will be women, there, of course
<crimsun> a number of community people, like yourself
<crimsun> some canonical staff
<crimsun> some developers
<_MMA_> I was talkin with Joe. I just have a picture in my head. :)
<lastnode> crimsun, you're missing from #upstream! and we just rolled out .debs too :P
<ajmitch> _MMA_: what a question to ask...
<joejaxx> me being there should be interesting
<joejaxx> lol
<_MMA_> ajmitch: Why because I like some scenery?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, wow it does take a nice little while to run though a large set of packages
<ajmitch> because you sound like a sad, desperate geek :)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yeah.
<ajmitch> & 'scenery'?
<imbrandon> _MMA_, yea considering thats not really approperate for a developers summit
<imbrandon> hehe
<_MMA_> HA! No. Im a married one who like to get in fights. :)
<joejaxx> LOl
<crimsun> I can just see Hobbsee with her pointy stick of doom.
<joejaxx> hobbsee is going to be there?
* joejaxx celebrates lol
<crimsun> if so, you're in trouble
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> joejaxx, no hobbsee wont be there this time
<_MMA_> imbrandon: Just because your there for the summit doesnt mean it has to be all stuffy and business.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :(
<joejaxx> that is unfortunate
<_MMA_> I know what Im there for. Im still gonna have a good time.
<imbrandon> _MMA_, very true , but i doubt picking up on woman is one of my "secondary" goals either
<crimsun> I've got all my hot chicks in /media/usbdisk/.../kernels/dapper/sound/pci/hda/patch_sigmatel.c anyhow.
<_MMA_> Oh No. I didnt say anything about "picking up on woman". I just would like it if all I have to look at is a bunch of geeky white guys. :)
<_MMA_> imbrandon: Especially in your current situation.
<imbrandon> i'm green , does that count ?
<_MMA_> If you were a girl, then call me James T Kirk.
<crimsun> green from using beryl or green from what beryl causes?
<_MMA_> Geeky enough for ya?
<imbrandon> the latter crimsun heh
<_MMA_> HA! I missed the spelling above. :)
<_MMA_> *wouldnt
<imbrandon> LaserJock, rockin , got it working
<imbrandon> now just to tweak it a bit
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/feisty/html/all.html
<imbrandon> more than 100 not in debian , wow
<LaserJock> imbrandon: cool
<Fujitsu> Aha!
<Fujitsu> VMWare works a lot better when I turn CPU frequency scaling off.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: 135 is quite impressive.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, in vmware or the host ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Host.
<minghua> imbrandon: that can't be right... I am sure debian has those l10n kde packages...
* imbrandon looks
<minghua> I think I see
<imbrandon> ugh wtf
<minghua> imbrandon: are kde-i18n-xx separate source packages in ubuntu?
<imbrandon> i dont think so
<imbrandon> might be
<imbrandon>  /dev/sdb1               60G    60G      0 100% /media/devel
<imbrandon> ;(
<imbrandon> something ate my drive up overnight
<crimsun> it starts with a 'p' and ends with an 'r'
<minghua> in debian all kde-i18n-xx stuff are built from source package kde-i18n, just FYI
<imbrandon> probably but the only thing thats on a cron is pbuilder-<dist> update
* imbrandon looks at the logs
<imbrandon> ugh somethings not right
* Fujitsu points at imbrandon.
<crimsun> well, don't put my pony in /media/devel kthx
* joejaxx points at Fujitsu 
<crimsun> of course you'll run out of disk space
<Fujitsu> :O
* Fujitsu steals crimsun's pony.
<crimsun> bah
<imbrandon> wellt he only thing thats on /media/devel is my pbuilders
* Fujitsu rides crimsun's pony away from the scene of the crime.
<crimsun> check the apt cache
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> but /media/deve/sid is reporting a size of 70GB+ when the partition is only 60gb
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: That's very good of it.
<minghua> sparse files
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: mounted stuff?
<Fujitsu> Or sparse files.
<imbrandon> holy fskin hell
<imbrandon> i found out why
<imbrandon> *groans* well i know the reason , but not why
<crimsun> like I said, if you had just shipped bddebian's pony to me instead of holding it hostage...
<imbrandon> hahah
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss115.png  , about 5 screens of that
<crimsun> hah
<Fujitsu> HAHAH.
<Fujitsu> Very good.
<imbrandon> heh yea
<ajmitch> imbrandon: impressive
<imbrandon> time for a reboot and to check my cron, i bet its becouse of the cronjob i set but i dunno why
<LaserJock> what is that?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, thats from the mount command
<imbrandon> all those /proc shouldent still be mounted
<LaserJock> oh geeze
<imbrandon> and pts
<crimsun> I wasn't far from the truth of it.
<crimsun> :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> well i have ....
<imbrandon> 0 *     * * *   brandon pbuilder-edgy update
<imbrandon> 0 *     * * *   brandon pbuilder-sid update
<imbrandon> 0 *     * * *   brandon pbuilder-dapper update
<imbrandon> 0 *     * * *   brandon pbuilder-feisty update
<imbrandon> in cron
<imbrandon> but i guess thats not a good idea
<LaserJock> why would that do that?
<minghua> I see unmounted sys and proc fs by pbuilder too
<imbrandon> no idea
<minghua> but not often
<imbrandon> minghua, yea but i have about 100+ of them
<imbrandon> not good
<crimsun> if pbuilder's interrupted, they won't be umounted.
<imbrandon> i havent rebooted in 2 weeks anyhow , bout time for a clean boot
<crimsun> I've gotten that precise symptom before
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't use cron for anything :/
<imbrandon> heh i use cron for a ton of stuff
<imbrandon> its the one thing i miss when i'm on windows
<minghua> it's still hard to believe just unmounted proc can eat up 60G harddrive, though
<crimsun> LaserJock doesn't even know what he's missing with launchd ;)
<imbrandon> thankfully i'm not on windows long enough to use cron
<Fujitsu> I miss screen (and a reasonable CLI) when I'm on Windows.
<minghua> (at least hard for me)
<imbrandon> yea launchd is great on OSX
<minghua> I miss the possibility to use "LC_CTYPE=XX program" to change locale
<imbrandon> heh i only speak fluent english ( barely ) so i never use that
<crimsun> I speek irc reel gud.
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> ok well time for a reboot, back in a sec
<Fujitsu> u du crimsun? i du 2!
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ajmitch]  by ChanServ
<Fujitsu> Eek.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: behave :)
* Fujitsu hides behind crimsun's pony.
<Fujitsu> You won't harm the poor cute little pony!
<Fujitsu> Sorry:
<ajmitch> yes I will
<Fujitsu> u wont hrm the pur cute ltle pny.
<ajmitch> hm
<Fujitsu> Damnit, I left a couple of vowels in there.
<ajmitch> should I kick or remove?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: But think of the poor pony!
<LaserJock> darn it, I hate my advisor's programming
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ajmitch]  by ajmitch
<LaserJock> no comments
* ajmitch hates ponies
<crimsun> "the source is documentation enough!"
<LaserJock> insists on running things by putting some cryptic sequence of numbers and "/" to tell the thing to run
<LaserJock> I have no idea how to make this program run
<Fujitsu> It's Fortran?
<minghua> sounds a pretty standard scientific Fortran program :-)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> he didn't want me to "waste my time" writing it in Python
<LaserJock> but I'm pretty sure I could have written it in the time it's taking me to figure out how to make this thing run
<Fujitsu> My father has stuff he uses most days written in various combinations of IDL, Fortran, Python and Tcl :S
<bhale> damn right tcl
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> the /media/devel/*/build dirs are huge too
<imbrandon> i wonder how that cron could have caused it
<crimsun> Tcl, arrr
<LaserJock> oh man, it did something!
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Incinerated your machine?
<LaserJock> I gave it 0/0/0/0/
<milc> 8/6/7/5/3/0/9
<milc> 9/0/2/1/0/
<milc> that executed the "close Czessi connection" application
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> can Daniel real be up that early?
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Seems like it.
<LaserJock> yikes
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Evening.
<LaserJock> I guess
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's not possible, surely
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu, ajmitch
<dholbach> LaserJock: it's 07:00
<ajmitch> dholbach: when do you fly?
<dholbach> at my end of the world
<ajmitch> it's 19:00 at my end of the world
<LaserJock> 22:00 in mine
<dholbach> ajmitch: tonight, rent a car, drive 800km to my parents place, drop the dog. tomorrow, leave with the car early, pick up mvo, fly from Frankfurt at 14:00 or something
<ajmitch> right :)
* ajmitch departs for Christchurch airport in ~12 hours or so
<ajmitch> that's a long way for you to drive to drop off a dog :)
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> i dont leave for another 26 or so
<dholbach> i'll be away for 2,5 weeks
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you live a lot closer
<imbrandon> ajmitch, true
<imbrandon> only a 5 hour flight
<ajmitch> 12 hour flight from AKL->SFO
<imbrandon> well actualy 2 hour then 3 hour
<imbrandon> connect in denver
* ajmitch looks around for more email on the lists
<imbrandon> thats a good thing for the plane , catch up on email
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I have a 5 hr drive :/
<LaserJock> 2 hr drive and then 3, that's weird
<imbrandon> yea driving sucks, 5 hours isnt toooo bad though
<imbrandon> haha
<imbrandon> when i drive from nasville tn to reno nv, it was a nightmare
<imbrandon> never again
<LaserJock> yucky
<LaserJock> we drive up to Montana every Christmas
<imbrandon> me , my wife ( 7 months pregnate ) and a 1 year old son from nashville to reno in a rider
<LaserJock> 1000 miles
<imbrandon> never ever ever again
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> 2100 for nashville --> reno
<LaserJock> yeah, that's nasty
<imbrandon> we stoped in stl , kc, lincon, and saltlake
<imbrandon> well stoped for the night, we stoped lots of places
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> we do it in one day when we go to MT
<LaserJock> but we don't have kids, just a cat
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> yea that helps , plus a car rides alot better than a rider truck
<LaserJock> argh, I'm going to tear out my hair (not that I have much left anymore)
<LaserJock> this Fortran thing is killing me
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> my dad programed in frotran and cobal for years
<imbrandon> fortran*
<imbrandon> on mainframes though mostly
<imbrandon> and ibm 360's and the like
* ajmitch has even worse
<ajmitch> I have to code in php
<imbrandon> heh my last non contact job was php coding , i actualy like php
<imbrandon> contract* gah
<imbrandon> from 2000 to 2005 or so
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: I trump you. I have tcl code
<ajmitch> ouch
<imbrandon> for prudential real estate
<ajmitch> how do you sleep at night?
<imbrandon> but now they use Yahoo! and got rid of all us in-house guys :(
* imbrandon grumbles at Yahoo!
* Fujitsu grumbles at BIND.
<imbrandon> ahh back to sane sizes , yay \o/
<imbrandon>  /dev/sdb1               60G   3.6G    53G   7% /media/devel
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<Fujitsu> Aha. BIND decided it wasn't going to handle requests for a domain, because it had a journal that was bad. How nice of it.
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> It wouldn't want to actually log that anywhere, of course.
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: was it you who made that gnash deb?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, yea
<imbrandon> when feisty opens i'm going to upload it there but i have it now if you wanna try ti
<Burgundavia> no, I have it
<Burgundavia> I have removed it, but I moved the .so by hand
<Burgundavia> and now I can't find it
<imbrandon> ahh yea with the first one i made you ahde to do that, it should be in /var/lib/firefox iirc
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> in /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/
<imbrandon> is where is should be
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, ^
<Burgundavia> right
<imbrandon> if you want a newer svn snapshot and a deb that put stuff in the right place http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gnash-0610301925/gnash_0.7.1+svn20061030-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<imbrandon> ( source is there too if your on ppc /amd64 )
<imbrandon> btw ajmitch you ever have time to eyeball that ? or crimsun ? i would like to get an opinion or two on it before feisty opens
<imbrandon> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3367
<imbrandon> oh wow never mind, someone packaged it in debian too since edgy
* imbrandon go's to check out theirs
<Fujitsu> GOES!
<imbrandon> bah
* Fujitsu gets out the spray-bottle.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, can you nuke my gnash upload then please on tiber ( or tell me howto )
<surimi> hi
<surimi> I try to install Kino but I have this message error "Depend: libraw1394-8  but it is not installable". On Dapper. In fact the paquet's name is : 0.90.2.3vIubuntu (dapper). Is it a bad backport from Edgy?
<surimi> How can I repear the dependancies and install it on Dapper?
<crimsun> !info libraw1394-8
<ubotu> libraw1394-8: library for direct access to IEEE 1394 bus (aka FireWire). In component main, is optional. Version 1.2.1-0ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 10 kB, installed size 68 kB
<crimsun> !info libraw1394-8 dapper
<ubotu> Package libraw1394-8 does not exist in dapper
<crimsun> !info kino dapper
<ubotu> kino: Non-linear editor for Digital Video data. In component main, is extra. Version 0.80-1ubuntu7 (dapper), package size 1071 kB, installed size 3616 kB
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o imbrandon]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ubuntu-es]  by imbrandon
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o imbrandon]  by imbrandon
<imbrandon> anyone looked into what this Novel and MS thing really means ?
<ajmitch> we won't know for awhile
<surimi> crimsun, I understand know, my sources.list should contain a incomplet deposit
<surimi> * now
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: can't really be sure
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: I would read what luis villa posted, plus the link to the matt asays post
<Burgundavia> both are very clueful
<surimi> crimsun, perhaps can we have a backport to Dapper?
<dholbach> surimi: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/i386/kino/0.80-1ubuntu7 is the version in dapper
<dholbach> and it depends on libraw1394-5
<dholbach> 0.90.2.3vIubuntu is not even in ubuntu yet
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, yea i read what luis posted not matt yet? matt whom ?
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: luis links to it
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> i read the pr release from novell it reall just said runing virtualized os , that just seems like xen to me but i have a feeling its something more
<surimi> dholbach, so no backport is possible?
<dholbach> surimi: you seem to refer to a version that is not in Ubuntu yet (at all)
<dholbach> so I'm not sure where you have it from
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: the general issue seems to revolve around patents. Novell could end up in a world of pain
<surimi> I edit my sources.list
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> the one and only good i see about this is the few that havent heard about linux this will now get it on their toungs
<jsgotangco> amen
<Burgundavia> this can actually hurt us (non-Novell people)
<surimi> dholbach, http://pastebin.ca/235460
<imbrandon> hahah Burgundavia have you seen the lkml post from markey that jdub linked to ?
<Burgundavia> people assume this need to buy "legit Linux"
<imbrandon> quote : "It's official. Microsoft and Novell will now fork Linux."
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: not yet
<imbrandon> man i'm glad to be honest i moved from suse to ubuntu when i did now
<dholbach> surimi: you have an awful lot of unofficial repositories
<jsgotangco> yes your soul is saved!
<dholbach> surimi: you need talk to their respective owners
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, yea i have a strange feeling it will hurt the pure gpl stuff in the short and long term
<dholbach> surimi: apt-cache policy kino         might help finding who's reponsible for the alternate version of kino
<imbrandon> probably honestly the AD stuff first, so we need to get acting soon
<surimi> dholbach, ok I see, thanks for all the commands
<imbrandon> as that will probably be one of the first things they will make work "right" and it will be non-gpl i'm guessing
<imbrandon> i knew this day would come sometime, i just dident expect it this soon or from novel
<Burgundavia> they already have edirectory
<Burgundavia> it is closed source
<Burgundavia> nothing has changed on that front
<imbrandon> ahh
<Burgundavia> edirectory is from their netware days. it predates AD
<imbrandon> i honestly figured redhat would do something close to this before novel , but novel is an old world company so i guess it makes sense
<surimi> 3v1n0.tuxfamily.org is guilty :p
<Burgundavia> red hat doesn
<Burgundavia> t need MS
<Burgundavia> read what Matt Asay said
<imbrandon> ahh surimi the beryl sources.list
<imbrandon> it bites again
<surimi> the best is to comment the line?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, got a direct link ?
<whiprush> http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/11/microsoft-and-novell-much-ado-about.html
<imbrandon> surimi, imho its best not to use repos from untrust worthy places, and nothing against the beryl guys but to me that dosent fall into the "trusted" sources
<imbrandon> for me
<imbrandon> as they have non-beryl stuff in the same repo
<imbrandon> as you just noticed
<imbrandon> whiprush, thanks
<ajmitch> hello whiprush
<whiprush> hi guys
<surimi> ok it's the best I can do
<Burgundavia> hey whiprush
<imbrandon> ajmitch, whom did you say was flying with you ? mpt and ?
<Burgundavia> hey Hobbsee
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi Burgundavia, imbrandon
<ajmitch> imbrandon: infinity is on the same flight
<ajmitch> good evening miss hobbs
<ajmitch> how are you?
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<Burgundavia> http://lwn.net/Articles/207438/ <-- rofl
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: good.  i now own two laptops :)
<ajmitch> oh?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, nice
<imbrandon> you finaly load the dualcore with kubuntu :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: not yet.  i'm about to
* ajmitch just has one slow old laptop
<imbrandon> heh me too
<StevenK> Me three.
<imbrandon> 800mhz ppc , with 640mb ram, and a 30gig hdd, but it gets the job done for what i need
<imbrandon> the only thing i even remotely dont like about it is no mic or mic jack, but thats really no big deal
<imbrandon> i could probably get a usb headset if i really wanted
<imbrandon> other than that it suits me just fine, just not a speed demon but is a work horse when i make it
<imbrandon> :)
* ajmitch might go to bed early tonight
<imbrandon> heh get on a US schedule ?
<ajmitch> nah
<imbrandon> i bet that will bite some people
<ajmitch> so that I can catch the bus
<ajmitch> only 3 hours difference for me
<imbrandon> its -2 for me, not that big of a deal
<imbrandon> err maybe -3 ? /me looks
<imbrandon> no -2
<imbrandon> looks to be 6 of us at the airport ajmitch, lifeless is on elk's flight
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yes, I told her that :)
<imbrandon> ahh :)
<ajmitch> depends if he wants to wait at the airport or not
<imbrandon> yea
* ajmitch decides he should start packing about now
<ajmitch> and every time I try to write packing, I end up writing packaging
* Burgundavia grumbles about not going
<imbrandon> heh i started about 2 hours ago
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, :(
<elkbuntu> havent asked him yet, he's gone to dinner
<imbrandon> kwwii's renting a car too when he gets there but it wont be till sat evening
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: that is annoying
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: very annoying
<ajmitch> hm, looks like it'll be almost the same weather there as in dunedin today
<imbrandon> i just hope its warmer than here
<imbrandon> i'm fskin freezing
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: I feel your pain.
<ajmitch> ~20C for the next few days
* imbrandon converts to F
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: not going either?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: 100F > 32F ;-)
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: No, unfortunately.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, haha
<Burgundavia> 70 F == 20 C
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> 70 is good
<imbrandon> 30's and 40's here isnt
<Burgundavia> anybody else having issues with sound with the totem plugin?
<imbrandon> e.g. 0 to 4 C
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, i dont use it much but yesterday when i was i dident
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: looks like it might jsut be .mov
<imbrandon> i cant fire the amd64 up right now ( the only thing with pure ubuntu on it ) or i would check again but i dont rember any issues
<imbrandon> but then again i dont think i was watching mov's they were mpeg
<Burgundavia> ok, gstreamer test media works
<LaserJock> darn, it's midnight and I still haven't figured this stupid thing out
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> take a break
* StevenK self-caffeinates, and tries to figure out drag-n-drop in pygtk.
<LaserJock> it reads in the parameters, and then it asks me for them
<LaserJock> I don't get it
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so I take it we're meeting in the BART station at the airport?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> the one on level 3 , not the garage
<imbrandon> ( just so we're at the same entance )
<ajmitch> right, so at the entrance
<ajmitch> makes sense :)
<ajmitch> I guess I should wear an ubuntu shirt or something
<imbrandon> heh i have no ubuntu t-shirt
<jsgotangco> wohooo
<imbrandon> but i'll have my green baseball cap on that saus turkey :)
<imbrandon> says*
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: is easy to find, anyway
<StevenK> Just look for someone tall carrying a sheep.
<ajmitch> sure I am :P
<imbrandon> LOL
* StevenK ducks.
<Hobbsee> hahaha
<ajmitch> haha
<imbrandon> ugh Seveas you awake yet ?
<imbrandon> i found a falcon bug / problem / something
<ajmitch> http://www.flickr.com/photos/magicfab/58053224/
<ajmitch> found a photo
<StevenK> Who's the charmer next to you?
<imbrandon> right or left ?
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> imbrandon: Right.
<ajmitch> phython sticking his tongue out..
<imbrandon> kk
<ajmitch> I wonder if he'll be there, I think he works at the googleplex
<imbrandon> i think i've shown you this before but here is me http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/all.gif
<ajmitch> yeah I've seen your happy face
<imbrandon> lol
<jsgotangco> hah
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: wow so you're actually going
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> I don't think there is a decent pic of me anywhere on the internet
<Hobbsee> am i crazy, or does gnumeric not do .ods?
<Hobbsee> ie, saving to it
<ajmitch> LaserJock: not yet :)
<Seveas> imbrandon, malone is always awake for that
<LaserJock> ajmitch: it's a good thing
<StevenK> Hobbsee: You're probably crazy.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just wait
<imbrandon> Seveas, well its only about recompiling the html templates for the new chetah or something
<Hobbsee> hah
<imbrandon> Seveas, AssertionError: This template was compiled with Cheetah version 0.9.16. Templates compiled before version 2.0rc6 must be recompiled.
<Seveas> imbrandon, known
<imbrandon> ahh can i fix localy ?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I really have to make sure I pack my camera
<Seveas> imbrandon, sudo chetah-compile /usr/share/falcon/orange.tmpl
<LaserJock> ajmitch: me too :/
<imbrandon> Seveas, rocking man , thanks
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea i dont have a digital camera anymore, mine died last week
<imbrandon> :(
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: lock your laptop :)
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: put a chain on your wallet :)
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I'll leave everything at home
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: yeah, I need to try & pickup a lock for it
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: actually better yet, my wife's coming so I can give everything to her
<imbrandon> hrm no chetah-compile command, you know what package its in ?
<imbrandon> Seveas, ^
<jsgotangco> lol
<Seveas> sorry, it's cheetah-compile
<imbrandon> LaserJock, lol
<Seveas> not chetah-compile ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> yea i'm gonna try to make a template that matches my site today to kill some time
<LaserJock> ok, maybe it's time to give up on this program
<LaserJock> I'll ask one of my labmates in the morning
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> I'm supposed to present the data I fit with it tomorrow at 10:00am
<crimsun> on Saturday?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: make the data fit the results?
<imbrandon> ouch
<LaserJock> crimsun: well, technically it's today at 10:00am
<crimsun> I have an 0930 for which I'm supposed to prep, but of course I'm squashing Ubuntu bugs instead
<LaserJock> crimsun: yes, I'm also supposed to write a departmental colloquia presentation for tomorrow too
<crimsun> too much time spent staring at OS X ;)
<LaserJock> but this stupid Fortran program is causing me problems
<StevenK>  1 file changed, 114 insertions(+), 107 deletions(-)
<LaserJock> I haven't started OS X for probably a week
<StevenK> Thanks, Glade, I love you.
<LaserJock> all Edgy, all the time
<crimsun> workaround listed on xubuntu.org
<imbrandon> he finaly got ubuntu at work :)
<crimsun> -ECHANNEL
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> I was noticing today in top that processes were getting 109% CPU
<LaserJock> that seems odd to me
<imbrandon> dual core ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> crimsun: yes, it's far too on-topic for us here
<LaserJock> so I had 2 processes with 99% each
<LaserJock> then 1 died
<LaserJock> and the other one then said 109%
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> how special
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, imbrandon sooo... who's confirmed for the train?
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: assuming I find you all, me :)
<imbrandon> elkbuntu, me you and ajmitch ( possibly mtp and infinity and lifeless depending on what they say )
<ajmitch> infinity probably won't
<surimi> !info basket
<ubotu> basket: User-friendly way to run programs and manage links in KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.0-6 (edgy), package size 334 kB, installed size 1176 kB
<surimi> http://basket.kde.org/ <----- so nice, a KDE application...
<surimi> we are far to Gnome's Tomboy...
<Burgundavia> surimi: far to?
<surimi> far from ? :)
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> yes
<ivoks> i don't find tomboy usefull
* ivoks ducks!
<surimi> sudo alien -d surimi :p
<imbrandon> knotes does everything i need
<Burgundavia> ivoks: took me awhile to integrate it into my workflow
<Burgundavia> then it clicked
<ivoks> heh
<ajmitch> StevenK: ?
<Burgundavia> deskbar and beagle are my next targets
<LaserJock> sbalnev apparently wrote a deskbar plugin that searches apt-cache
<LaserJock> I think that would single handedly convert me
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i agree
<surimi> someone can do the deb for Basket, please ? It exist yet for Fedora Core 6
<surimi> the sources are here http://basket.kde.org/screenshots.php
<surimi> oh it exist yet http://basket.kde.org/download.php oO
<LaserJock> surimi: check on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<ajmitch> LaserJock: already in universe, just needs updated in debian & synced
<LaserJock> oh
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, ajmitch, lifeless is in for the train :)
<ajmitch> ok
<elkbuntu> any word from the other two?
<ajmitch> infinity said he probably won't
<elkbuntu> and no word from mpt?
<LaserJock> mpt was talking in #launchpad < 30 min ago
<surimi> mr_pouit, tu peux m'expliquer les tapes de la validation d'un deb pour qu'il passe dans Universe ?
<surimi> LaserJock, le deb existe dj ici http://basket.kde.org/download.php
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: mpt is in
<elkbuntu> cool
<imbrandon> cool
<ajmitch> excellent, so the kiwis should outnumber everyone
<imbrandon> LOL
<elkbuntu> damn!
* imbrandon will be saysin "what did you say??"
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I sure hope not
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, for the train ride, they will be
<LaserJock> I don't think the vegamite revolution should come to Mt. View ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> or is that vegemite?
<ajmitch> vegemite
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, you're lucky, they banned it
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: all lies
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, they unbanned it?
* elkbuntu hasnt been paying attention to news
<ajmitch> if it was even banned in the first place...
<ajmitch> there were some clarifications issued..
<lifeless> gels/liquids were not banned on checked in luggage
<lifeless> only on cabin, and for cabins they are now allowed in controlled amounts
<ajmitch> in very very small amounts, I was told by the travel agent
<elkbuntu> yeah. no individual amount to exceed 90ml, and to be carried in a ziplock bag that cannot hold any more than a litre
<imbrandon> yea you can only have liquids in checked luggage, not even stuff like large toothpaste etc, all checked
<ajmitch> crazy
<lifeless> imbrandon: you can have more than liquids in checked luggage :)
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> i mean carry on
<imbrandon> you cant
<LaserJock> yeah, that's too bad. I've never checked luggage before
<LaserJock> always stuffed everything in a tiny suitcase for carryon
<elkbuntu> you guys know if i'd be able to get on board with laptop bag and handbag?
<lifeless> http://www.unitedairlines.com.au/qenglish/TSA/index.html?navSource=UnitedNews&linkTitle=TSA&pos=1
<imbrandon> should, i'm taking my alppy carry on
<elkbuntu> i called the airline, but got some guy with a thick accent from i dont know where, so i got no idea what i was told :|
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: flying which airline?
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: should be ok
<elkbuntu> United Airlines
<Burgundavia> no problem
<Burgundavia> just don't take excessive hand luggage
<Burgundavia> one small bag and your laptop bag is good
<LaserJock> oh man, last time I flew. there was this older couple that had these like full size suit cases
<Burgundavia> however, expect to take your laptop out at security
<Burgundavia> so plan for that
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I have no idea how they get away with that
<elkbuntu> ok i can live with that
<StevenK> The last time I flew I was asked to boot my laptop.
* Burgundavia wonders if anyone can tell he has been on 7 or 8 trips in as many months
* ajmitch just has 1 backpack
<elkbuntu> i'll just get it out and put volume up as high as it can go so the airport echos with ubuntu :D
<ajmitch> StevenK: really? I never have had that
<Burgundavia> I have had them swipe it
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, they were just standing there stuffing and stuffing. took up at least twice as much as there were supposed to
<ajmitch> StevenK: should I show off beryl to them if they ask? ;)
<Burgundavia> for explosives, that is
<StevenK> ajmitch: It only happened once, at Singapore Airport.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Heh. :-)
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: right, I've had the explosive residue check once
<Burgundavia> canadian security seems to do that a lot more
<ajmitch> yeah, I think it was in canada
<ajmitch> can't recall
<ajmitch> too many airports
* LaserJock says goodbye to all his email
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: why are you still up?
<LaserJock> got too much to do before leaving
<lifeless> ajmitch: so where are we meeting ?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: you could also say "I could ask the same of you"
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: of course, but I figured a single guy like you wouldn't have anything better to do then stay up until the AM playing with computers ;-)
<Burgundavia> touche
<LaserJock> I have a curfew ;-)
<elkbuntu> lol
<Burgundavia> ah, yes, the non-single life
<ajmitch> lifeless: SFO BART station entrance, level 3
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, i think imbrandon is going to wait for us and we go up together
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: as I understand it
<lifeless> ajmitch: what time are we meeting ?
<ajmitch> my flight gets in at 11:15, when's yours?
<elkbuntu> 9:42
<ajmitch> quite a wait
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, is 10:??
<elkbuntu> i've written down both flight numbers
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, is mpt on your flight?
<imbrandon> 10:10 is the exact time
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: yes
<imbrandon> i say it will be about 10:30 by the time i get off the plane etc
<lifeless> lvl 3 of the BART, or lvl3 of the airport ?
<imbrandon> the BART entrance is on lvl 3
<imbrandon> of the airport
<LaserJock> ok, I think I've had enough
<LaserJock> good night people
<imbrandon> night LaserJock
<elkbuntu> well im off now, see you guys there :)
<imbrandon> cya :)
<ajmitch> I suppose it's about time to sleep
<ajmitch> once I grab some stuff off the laptop
<imbrandon> yea same here, i think its time for a nap then i'll finish packing
<ajmitch> suitcase is barely half full
<imbrandon> welp if i dont catch you on irc before you leave lifeless / ajmitch , have a safe flight
<ajmitch> you too
* ajmitch will probably hop on irc first thing in the morning, as usual
<StevenK> Oh that's right, imbrandon has to get up at like 3am
<imbrandon> yea me too probably but who knows heh
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i have to be at the airport at 4am and its an hour and 15 minutes drive from here
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> so about exactly ~24 hours for me
<imbrandon> err 22
<imbrandon> oh well, off to sleep i go, later yall
* ajmitch hunts for his plane ticket
<ajmitch> it's really funny how plugging in my phone into my laptop, rhythmbox starts, and it appears as something like an ipod
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> only has 64MB mini-SD card, so not really that useful
<imbrandon> your phone has an SD card?
<luisbg> ajmitch, cool
<ajmitch> yeah
<imbrandon> hrm StevenK your on a amd64 right ?
<StevenK> Yup.
<imbrandon> mind compiling something in pbuilder for me read fast? its small , i just need the deb's
<StevenK> Nope. Fire away.
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/packages/dists/edgy/gnash/
<imbrandon> dsc is there ^^
<imbrandon> one source package , makes like 4 debs
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, how far has gnash gotten in the last month?
<imbrandon> i have i386 and powerpc but i wanna put amd64 debs up too before i goto bed
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ, its useable, not the greatest but useable
<StevenK> imbrandon: *nods*
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ, if your on i386 or powerpc you can grab the debs from that same url to try it if you like
<DarkMageZ> sounds like it's making progress
<imbrandon> StevenK, thanks man
* StevenK tries to teach imbrandon about "you're"
<StevenK> :-P
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> StevenK: he'll never learn the Queen's English
<StevenK> ajmitch: Indeed.
<StevenK> imbrandon: Building.
<StevenK> QUILT?! You bastard!
<imbrandon> rockin, it builds in aobut 10 minutes here ( including the dep stuff )
<ajmitch> crap
<imbrandon> hey i dident do it, thats from debian
<ajmitch> reminder, never run baobab on a large filesystem with little RAM free
<StevenK> Heh
<imbrandon> i had it packaged way way diffrent till i syncd with them
<lifeless> baobab needs tuning
<StevenK> I note the Build-Depends are huge.
<imbrandon> yea it really only needs very few if you only make the firefox plugin
<imbrandon> but all that other stuff ;(
* ajmitch brutally removes the windows XP vmware install
<imbrandon> my package only made the firefox plugin, but then someone beat me to it in debian so i figured might as well sync it
<imbrandon> and it makes the koqui plugin the standalone player and soemthing else
<imbrandon> plus the firefox plugin
<StevenK>  -> Considering  libgstreamer0.10-dev | libgstreamer0.8-dev
<StevenK>  -> Considering  libgstreamer0.10-dev
* StevenK thwaps imbrandon
<DarkMageZ> it's not imbrandon's fault. that's debian as well
<StevenK> Neat.
* StevenK is a big fan of shooting the messenger.
<DarkMageZ> i remember bringing those same debian packages to edgy
<StevenK> Fetched 44.3MB in 5s (7751kB/s)
<StevenK> Yummy.
* DarkMageZ cries
<imbrandon> here was __MY__ build depends before i grabbed debian's
<imbrandon> Build-Depends: cdbs, debhelper (>= 5.0.0), libgtkglext1-dev, libboost-dev, libgstreamer0.10-dev, libgl1-mesa-dev, libpng12-dev, libjpeg62-dev, libmad0-dev
<imbrandon> tons better
<StevenK> Agreed, but I'm still going to shoot you. :-P
<DarkMageZ> i wish i could get even 1000kB/s
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> the one nice thing it runs out of process so if it does crash it dont take the browser with it
<imbrandon> unlike the "real" flash
<luisbg> ajmitch, why don't you put a bigger sd card in your phone? can your phone play music with earphones?
<ajmitch> luisbg: because it came with this one, and I haven't had a need
<luisbg> ajmitch, if you have an ipod, it makes no sense
<ajmitch> no, I don't
<imbrandon_> wow i just noticed a ton of stuff come accross -changes, wont be long now
<StevenK> imbrandon: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/gnash/
<ajmitch> imbrandon_: ABI rebuild
<imbrandon_> StevenK: you rock thanks ( grabbing now )
<imbrandon_> ajmitch:  yea i seen
<lastnode> imbrandon, we're rolling in some final bugfixes. debs should be ready to go by Monday
<lastnode> UDS is 5th november, yes?
<imbrandon_> lastnode: yes
<lastnode> wait, ill get it done by Saturday (tomorrow, for me)
<lastnode> imbrandon_, http://upstreamdev.org/wiki/Releases/0.1.0 <-- has *almost ready* .debs btw, in case you didn't get the link
<imbrandon_> lastnode: yes i got them and have them in my repo
<lastnode> imbrandon_, awesome. ill ping when the final ones are out.
<luisbg> can someone confirm me python-qt4 has unmet dependencies?
<StevenK> luisbg: On Edgy? No, it installs fine.
<luisbg> StevenK, on feisty?
<luisbg> python-sip4 is giving me problems
<StevenK> I wouldn't even attempt it at this point.
<StevenK> Wait until feisty is unfrozen.
<luisbg> ok
<lastnode> imbrandon_, pm?
<imbrandon_> sure, do it on this name though i'm heaed to sleep soon :)
<luisbg> StevenK, when a dirty unmet dep is  in apt's way and doesn't want to install anything else... how can I fix it?
<imbrandon_> dpkg --configure -a
<imbrandon_> sudo ^
<luisbg> imbrandon, thanks! =)
<luisbg> nope... still broken
<Hobbsee> you have to fix the dep first, or uninstall the package, usually
<imbrandon_> yea what Hobbsee  said ^ i assumed you did that
* imbrandon_ heads off to sleep , thanks for the compile StevenK 
<ajmitch> night
<StevenK> No problem.
<TheMuso> Hey all. Do any of you think its really worth going for Debian dev, and having to go through a year's worth of stuff just to do so?
<imbrandon_> btw thanks to StevenK there is amd64 gnash now in my repo is you wanna give it a spin
<imbrandon_> TheMuso: i planned on it "someday"
* StevenK notes his NM experience was a week.
<luisbg> Hobbsee, uninstall with apt-get remove or what?
<TheMuso> StevenK: You were just lucky.
<Hobbsee> luisbg: yes
<luisbg> it says it isn't installed
<Mez> what command can i use to concetenate 2 diffs?
<geser> cat
<Mez> combinediff ;)
<fernando> morning all
<SlimG> is it possible to create a source package with checkinstall?
<TheMuso> SlimG: Not that I know of.
<TheMuso> As it is, checkinstall is frowned upon here.
<TheMuso> I don't have the URL handy, but if you wish to learn to package, I suggest reading the Ubuntu packaging guide.
<SlimG> TheMuso: thanx, i'm practicing to howto package, i using checkinstall to understand how stuff works
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> It might be better to look at a source package.
<SlimG> TheMuso: what's the final command for creating a *.deb the right way?
<TheMuso> Then you learn how stuff works, and learn how Ubuntu/Debian packaging works.
<fernando> SlimG: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/
<TheMuso> Usually something like debuild or dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot.
<TheMuso> Make sure you have fakeroot installed.
<TheMuso> But most of us use pbuilder.
<bhale> pbuilder should be required
<SlimG> TheMuso: thanx for the help, i'm one step further now, evolution here i come :)
<TheMuso> evolution?
<[SashOk] > hello!
<[SashOk] > 
<[SashOk] >  ?
<[SashOk] > 
<[SashOk] > 
<[SashOk] > 
<[SashOk] > 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<joejaxx> good morning motus :D
<lophyte> hey joejaxx
<joejaxx> hello lophyte
<lophyte> how's it going?
<joejaxx> it is going well
<luisbg> hey
<joejaxx> luisbg: you are here too? lol
<luisbg> shouldn't I?
<joejaxx> :)
<luisbg> ;)
<luisbg> joejaxx, I've got a problem
<joejaxx> luisbg: what is that?
<luisbg> let me recreate it
<luisbg> when I do apt-get -f install ... python-sip4 doesn't want to install
<luisbg> dpkg: error al procesar /var/cache/apt/archives/python-sip4_4.4.5-2ubuntu1_i386.deb (--unpack):
<luisbg>  intentando sobreescribir `/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/sipconfig.py', que est tambin en el paquete python2.4-sip-qt3
<joejaxx> hmm interesting
<joejaxx> luisbg: edgy?
<joejaxx> or dapper?
<luisbg> edgy
<luisbg> actually when the problem started I was usings feisty's main :S
<luisbg> but changed it to edgy
<joejaxx> lol
* luisbg learned the leason of waiting for unfrozen feisty
<luisbg> any way to fix it?
<luisbg> need apt
<joejaxx> well it says that the file is in python-sip4 is also in python2.4-sip-qt3 right?
<joejaxx> you in #u-s too :P
<luisbg> yes
<luisbg> <joejaxx> well it says that the file is in python-sip4 is also in python2.4-sip-qt3 right? <--- YES
<joejaxx> luisbg: lol i am talking to you in two channels :P
<luisbg> joejaxx, it's getting confusing LOL
<joejaxx> yes it is
<joejaxx> luisbg: remove the qt package
<luisbg> python-qt4: Depende: python-sip4 (>= 4.4.5) pero no va a instalarse
<luisbg>               Depende: python-sip4 (< 4.5) pero no va a instalarse
<luisbg>   python-sip-qt3: Depende: python2.4-sip-qt3 (>= 3.10.2-1.1ubuntu1) pero no va a instalarse
<luisbg> after I did sudo apt-ger remove python2.4-sip-qt3
<joejaxx> :\
<luisbg> any apt-get I do... shouts that
<luisbg> which is ironic because I need apt-get to solve that
<joejaxx> luisbg: did you try installing feisty packages?
<joejaxx> before?
<joejaxx> when you had the feisty repo open?
<joejaxx> or did you just change the deb line
<joejaxx> and nothing else
<luisbg> I had been using the feisty main for like two days
<luisbg> I changed the apt sources
<joejaxx> and you are switching back?
<joejaxx> :(
<luisbg> because it was recommended to me to go back until is unfrozen
<joejaxx> did they tell you what to do with already installed feisty packages?
<luisbg> joejaxx, no
<bhale> you can pin the distro in apt
<luisbg> bhale, pin?
<bhale> http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html
<bhale> make the priority of edgy higher than feisty
<luisbg> bhale, did, let's check the apt-get -f install
<luisbg> bhale, still same problem after pining
<bhale> is there a problem
<bhale> or you want to be forced down to edgy?
<luisbg> I just want to resolve the dep problem of my apt to be able to use it
<luisbg> preferebly in edgy
<luisbg> can someone confirm me that in package python-qt4 of edgy it really says...
<luisbg> package depends... "python-sip4 (>= 4.4.5), python-sip4 (<< 4.5)"
<luisbg> just apt-get source downloaded it and can't believe it
<luisbg> http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/python/python-qt4 ----> the same
<luisbg> is "<<" the same as "<"?
<fernando> can I to build a package with debian directory a symlink to other directory?
<sivang> fernando: AFAIK, yes
<fernando> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to debian:
<fernando> dpkg-source:  new version is symlink
<fernando> dpkg-source:  old version is nonexistent
<joejaxx> :D hello everyone
<joejaxx> it has been quiet today :\
<pradeep> hi joejaxx
<joejaxx> hello
<zul> i think most people are traveling today
<joejaxx> pradeep: today's attempt today is to make a settings package
<zul> or starting to do
<ajmitch> yep
<joejaxx> zul: ah ok
<pradeep> joejaxx, settings package?
<joejaxx> yes
<pradeep> enlighten me please :)
<joejaxx> like *-default-settings
<joejaxx> or ubuntu-default-settings
<joejaxx> i need to create one of those and an artwork package
<pradeep> if installed would restore everything to default ? as in CD ?
<joejaxx> pradeep: well settings for applications
<joejaxx> like for fluxbuntu
<joejaxx> the fluxbox menu is setup a certain way
<joejaxx> that whould be setup with the fluxbuntu-default-settings package
<joejaxx> having the fluxbuntu logo on wdm instead of debian
<joejaxx> or having*
<joejaxx> pradeep: do you see what i mean?
<pradeep> yep, so this would be like a restore thingy if something goes bad with the apps right?
<pradeep> joejaxx, that would be helpful
<joejaxx> pradeep: well yes i guess if you messed up your fluxbuntu menu you could reinstall the package
<joejaxx> pradeep: is stuff like that normal handled by the desktop package?
<joejaxx> pradeep: i as told i needed a *-default-settings package
<pradeep> joejaxx, sounds a bit new ... I dunno...what apps would you include?
<joejaxx> pradeep: it whould just hold the configurations
<joejaxx> pradeep: are settings normally handled by the *-desktop package?
<joejaxx> pradeep: maybe i was informed incorrectly
<joejaxx> bah
* joejaxx moves on to the artwork package
<pradeep> i think *-desktop is just a meta package ... no settings
<pradeep> too late :P
<joejaxx> i should stop talk
<joejaxx> talking
<superm1> is there something similar to REVU for getting things into main/restricted?
<luisbg> superm1, ubuntu-dev?
<slomo_> superm1: stuff goes to universe/multiverse first and then after writing an main inclusion report and getting it approved it is moved to main
<superm1> okay thats what i thought it might be
<superm1> what about things with questionable licensing - those "sidestep" cases describe in ubuntu.com/licensing
<slomo_> will most probably go to multiverse/restricted then
<slomo_> what exactly are you packaging?
<superm1> well i am going to get ivtv-firmware packaged up
<superm1> and i'm waiting back from hauppauge with written permissions
<superm1> slomo_, if hauppauge only provides verbal permissions though, will that be enough?  or do i have to make sure i have it in writing?
<imbrandon> superm1, it actualy has to be released in a license that allows redist
<imbrandon> not just permission
<imbrandon> becouse of derivitives etc
<superm1> well i talked with the person hosting it at ivtvdriver.org
<superm1> and they said redist is okay
<superm1> but they dont have written permissions for it
<imbrandon> anyone that gets ubuntu has to have the right to alose redist , or anyone that make a ubuntu based distro must also have that right
<superm1> even for restricted stuff?
<imbrandon> right but it needs to be totaly clear
<superm1> well i talked on the phone today briefly with hauppauge about it.  they are going to get back to me via email
<superm1> I sent them a copy of amtel-firmware's copyright file asking for something similar back
<superm1> imbrandon, about the exclusivity - what if we get a license allowing ubuntu and derivatives - is that too exclusive still?
<imbrandon> superm1, i'm not a laywer but i dont think so except in special cases bartered by canonical ( firefox is the only known case of this becouse its soooo high profile )
<imbrandon> sorry i'm in and out, i'm leaving for the airport soonish
<imbrandon> so i'm packing last minute etc :)
<superm1> oh yea today is off to MTV :)
<imbrandon> yup i leave in about 9 hours
<imbrandon> :)
<superm1> well i'll be in contact with hauppauge the next week.  i'll see if i can settle it with them then
<imbrandon> superm1, sweet yea, i would LOVE to see this happen, we just have to be carefull
<imbrandon> you know what i mean
<superm1> at very worst, ivtv-firmware can wget from ivtv-driver.org
<superm1> as a fallback option
<Burgwork> superm1: that is what the flashplayer does
<superm1> similar to how the flash plugin does
<superm1> yea
<imbrandon> well i'm thinking we MIGHT be able to setup something like the flashplugin-nonfree in multiverse
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> wb corey
<superm1> imbrandon, did you sort out getting that branch together?
<Burgwork> bloody sound breaks after 48 hours
<imbrandon> superm1, no sorry i dident , i've been so busy with getting my travel stuff clear
<imbrandon> i'll try to do so asap
<superm1> when you get a moment, if your busy getting travel stuff together, thats a bigger priority
<imbrandon> Burgwork, just stops working ? is maybe the palyer your using have a mem leak? just a shot in the dark
<Burgwork> imbrandon: not, something todo with dbus and hal
<imbrandon> ahh
<Burgwork> loses the fact that the player is there
<Burgwork> might be our closed source multiseat crap as well
<imbrandon> ouch, not good
<imbrandon> superm1, yea hosnetly i figure i'll have time to do it this week after hours from the BoF's
<imbrandon> at the hotel or something, i think as long as we get it done before we upload new versions feisty we're ok
<imbrandon> which will be a few days anyhow
<superm1> oh i didnt realize feisty was opening up so soon
<imbrandon> yea , the toolchain is almost complete , infact somethings have already been rebuilt
<imbrandon> for an ABI change that was made
<superm1> did we make a big jump on gcc versions?  I was assuming that we were starting with edgy versions
<superm1> and glibc versions
<imbrandon> yea https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/feisty-changes/
<imbrandon> you might want to subscribe to the feisty-changes ML or Seveas's RSS feed for it
<superm1> do you have a link for Seveas's RSS feed?
<superm1> good to watch this thing
<imbrandon> hrm one sec
<Seveas> media.ubuntu-nl.org/rss
<imbrandon> http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/rss/feisty.xml
<superm1> Thx
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> moins Seveas, heading out soon ?
<Seveas> 7 hours
<imbrandon> cool, about the same here ( 9 or so )
<CarlFK> how would I go about finding if anyone is packaging http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/gui-tools/5.0.html
<Burgwork> CarlFK: look for ITPs in debian
<Burgwork> ask around here
<CarlFK> what is an ITP?
<Burgwork> intent to package
<CarlFK> thanks
<LaserJock> Burgwork: we'll turn you into a MOTU yet :-)
<bddebian> heh
<Burgwork> LaserJock: good luck trying
<LaserJock> Burgwork: there is this Tcl app that sounds like a perfect learning project ;-)
<Burgwork> right
<LaserJock> Burgwork: have you tricked, I mean enticed, anybody to package that yet?
<Burgwork> not yet
<LaserJock> well, I'd rather package for openUserful then Userful
<Burgwork> userful paid you, and openuserful can't
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I'd still rather package for openuserful
<Burgwork> LaserJock: well this tcl code I have is openuserful!
<LaserJock> yep
<Burgwork> I have even have a shiny press release to prove it :)
<LaserJock> if I have time I'd like to help out
<LaserJock> but as you probably know, my free time is pretty used up
<LaserJock> uggg, that cochicken thing is nasty
<LaserJock> oh, how nifty, firefox won't quit
<LaserJock> doh, I had another window on a different desktop
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: now when are all of you ( you and the AU/NZ contingent) going to hit SF?
<lifeless> ~1000 AM SF time
<lifeless> I get in a 0942, stip at 1000 precisely,
<lifeless> ajmitch at 1115
<imbrandon> yea all our flights get there from 942 to 1115
<lifeless> s/stip/stub/
<lifeless> and we're meeting at the BART station lvl 3
<imbrandon> lifeless, and elk at 942 , me at 1010 and ajmitch and mpt at 1115
<imbrandon> moins lifeless
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ok and that's Saturday, right?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> ( tomarrow morning )
<imbrandon> for us, not sure what it means to them ( later today ? )
<LaserJock> I was just trying to see how early I should get over there
<imbrandon> my plane leaves in about ~12 hours , but i have to be at the airport sooner
<LaserJock> I might try to hop over to the hotel when I get in to say hello
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> yea ajmitch is in mtv actualy not sunnyvale but he said something about somming over to the hotel maybe sat night
<imbrandon> for a while
<imbrandon> s/somming/comming
<LaserJock> yeah, similar here
<LaserJock> I think I'm the closest to Google HQ ;-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> when are you supose to get there ?
<LaserJock> well, this afternoon/evening I'm driving to Sac
<imbrandon> we will likely be at the hotel about noon or soon after
<LaserJock> but I haven't figured out when we'll drive from Sac to Mt. View
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> hopefully not when the traffic is nasty
<LaserJock> but it's always nasty so...
<imbrandon> yea leave right after morning rush would be good, then you wont have to worry about it till quitting time
<imbrandon> but saturday shouldent be terrible
<LaserJock> yeah, if people are going to be around I'll go earlier
<LaserJock> if nobody was going to be there until Sat. night I wasn't going to worry about it
<LaserJock> but I don't have much time so I want to make the most of it
<LaserJock> ouch
<imbrandon> yea we should all get there arround noon to the hotel, depending on how long ajmitch and mpt are in customs
<LaserJock> Yahoo has an Internet Addiction story right now
<bhale> im an internet addict
<bhale> whats the cure?
<LaserJock> I made 7 out of 8 on the checklist
<imbrandon> lol yea i would probably get 8 of 8
<imbrandon> or 7 of 8
<LaserJock> I'm too cheap to buy computer equipment
<imbrandon> whats the url ?
<bhale> i meet 6 of those
<bhale> i dont lie or deny it
<LaserJock> imbrandon: http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/hughes/6574
<LaserJock> well, I guess I don't deny it
<LaserJock> but I probably shrink my computer time down in my head
<LaserJock> "I haven't been on long" = 8 hrs
<bhale> im on 8 hours at work
<bhale> and most of the evening
<imbrandon> heh i meet all but 1 and 8
<LaserJock> heh, I like this comment: "three words...WORLD OF WARCRAFT"
<imbrandon> heh when i was looking if the airport had hotspots , thats sad considering i wont be there more than 1 or 2 hours tops
<imbrandon> :)
<bhale> i cant help but pay for airport wifi
<bhale> i was in Boston for 30 minutes tops
<bhale> $8
<imbrandon> heh
<bhale> my credit card floats out of my pocket
<imbrandon> i might in SFO waiting for everyone to show up
<imbrandon> but not in denver most likely as i'll only be there 1 hour
<bhale> i hope your ipod is charged
<imbrandon> but then again who knows LOL
<LaserJock> I'm just too broke to spend money on wiki
<LaserJock> wifi
<imbrandon> yup yup its fully charged, made sure of that
<bhale> its $8
<bhale> DO IT
<LaserJock> that's a lot of money though :-0
<imbrandon> alot for 30 minutes yea
<imbrandon> and considering i only have $200 for the week heheh
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> well, I shoulda spent more money when I went to Paris
<bhale> i spent $100 in australia
<bhale> on cabs
<LaserJock> instead some punk got most of it :(
<bhale> mark does a very nice job of taking care of things
<imbrandon> yea i heard that
<imbrandon> heh my mt dew addiction i will spend $100 on just that :)
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> i can live without wifi at the airport but not mt dew
<LaserJock> shesh
<LaserJock> you need a t-shirt, "Mt. Dew in Mt. View"
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> i dident even look , are either of the other brandons comming ?
<imbrandon> bhale, ?
<LaserJock> I want a "I went to UDS Mt. View and all I got was this lousy t-shirt...and a lot of work"
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i just want a kubuntu t-shirt
<bhale> bhale: no
<bhale> uh
<bhale> imbrandon: no.
<imbrandon> heh ok
<imbrandon> welp time to finish packing, probably be back in a bit
<LaserJock> packing?
<LaserJock> over-achiever!
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I just stuff some stuff in a suitcase 30 min. before I have to go
<lifeless> yup
<lifeless> I just did that
<lifeless> imbrandon: whats your mobile # ?
<imbrandon> 816-810-3757
<imbrandon> 1+ ^
<TheMuso> Hey guys.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hope you enjoy your week.
<imbrandon> :)
<TheMuso> I really wish I could be there.
* bddebian 2 :'-(
<theCore> UDS is next week?
<imbrandon> theCore, yea most of us are either on the road now or getting ready to be on the road to moutain view now
<theCore> you are a bunch of lucky guys :)
<theCore> I heard there will be a IRC channel for UDS, is it true?
<imbrandon> theCore, YEA THERE IS NORMALY ONE SETUP
<imbrandon> gah
<imbrandon> sorry caps lock sucks
<lifeless> imbrandon: so thats +18168103757 ?
<lifeless> imbrandon: or +118168103757 ?
<imbrandon> lifeless, yea
<imbrandon> no the first
<theCore> imbrandon, you should remove it :)
<lifeless> let me test :)
<imbrandon> +1-816-810-3757
<imbrandon> you will get my voicemail probably , its on the charger right now
<lifeless> if your phone rings now, its right :)
<lifeless> lol, ok
<imbrandon> it says my name
<lifeless> 'the person you are trying to reach'...
<imbrandon> hrm that phone might be not working , one sec
<lifeless> yah, no voice mail on that number
<DBO> i cant believe you posted your number on irc...
<imbrandon> DBO, why not, i had/have it on my website too
<imbrandon> not many calls trust me :)
<DBO> =)
* theCore is evil and will prank calls during the night :P
<theCore> will do*
<imbrandon> thats the nice thing about "off" on cell phones
<DBO> imbrandon, beryl 0.1.2 will be ready soon if you are interested
<theCore> bah ...
<imbrandon> DBO, rocking, i'll look when i get into mtv
<DBO> imbrandon, I'll come back and let you know when its released final
<DBO> oh you will be at UDS =)
<DBO> fantastic
<imbrandon> yes
<DBO> I'll see you there
<imbrandon> :)
<DBO> i was under the impression you were not going for some reason
* imbrandon tries to rember the other cell number
<imbrandon> DBO, yes i leave here in a few hours
<TheMuso> c
<DBO> well then imbrandon, happy trails!
<TheMuso> gar speakup
<theCore> will there be a CC meeting during UDS?
<imbrandon> lifeless, 1-816-550-7441
<imbrandon> i'll take that cellphone
<imbrandon> ^
<lifeless> kk
<imbrandon> theCore, no
<lifeless> is that work or personal or you just have two phones for fun ?
<imbrandon> i just have two, the first was a prepaid, this is a verizon
<imbrandon> both personal
<lifeless> testing
<theCore> imbrandon, ah, ok
<imbrandon> k
<lifeless> ringing
<lifeless> sweet
<imbrandon> works !
<imbrandon> said unavible on the caller id, but thats not a big deal :)
* LaserJock adds "imbrandon" to his phone
<imbrandon> :)
<lifeless> yah, its handshaking with vodafone in .au
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: what provider do you have?
<theCore> gotta love the long-distance fees :)
<imbrandon> verizon
<LaserJock> darn
<lifeless> bbiab
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ?
<LaserJock> I've got cincular, I was hoping I could call you for free ;-)
<imbrandon> ahh :)
<LaserJock> *cingular
<imbrandon> LaserJock, no moible to mobile for free?
<LaserJock> for cingular yes
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> 65 to 70 degree temps are going to be a welcom change
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, my wife's family there don't have ac or heat in their house
<LaserJock> imbrandon: and I'm not sure they really have insulation either
<imbrandon> wow
<LaserJock> they say the pretty much open the windows during the summer and close then during the winter :-)
<imbrandon> ok now to really finish packing, back in ~30 min or an hour
<imbrandon> heh
<tenshu> hi all
<tenshu> i would like to upload a package to REVU, can someone re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-04
<imbrandon> !info vdr
<ubotu> vdr: Video Disk Recorder for DVB cards. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.4.0-2 (edgy), package size 693 kB, installed size 2108 kB
<StevenK> It was autosynced, hence why it wasn't picked up.
<imbrandon> yea
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<luisbg> heya all
<Hobbsee> hey luisbg
<luisbg> how is all going Hobbsee ?
<Hobbsee> luisbg: good, continuing to install my new laptop
<Hobbsee> and then i should file some bugs, i guess
<luisbg> the bugs you find while installing your new laptop?
<luisbg> which laptop is it?
<Hobbsee> dell 6400
<Hobbsee> yeah, like the resolution bug, and some of the keys not working
* bhale snuggles up to Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> actually, i think they're already filed - just nothing done about them yet
<Hobbsee> hey bhale :)
<luisbg> dell makes great computers... when I had a pc laptop I had dell
<luisbg> what resolution bug?
<bhale> i have all dell
<luisbg> hey bhale
<Hobbsee> luisbg: only gives 1024x768, not the native widescreen resolution
<Hobbsee> (1280x800)
<luisbg> Hobbsee, does the desktop look squished?
<Hobbsee> luisbg: it did, yeah
<luisbg> I have the same problem right now
<Hobbsee> and all my normal 1024x768 desktops look squished!  hehe!
<luisbg> baught a new screen for my desktop pc, and it's a widescreen
<luisbg> and it looks squised vertically
<luisbg> s/squised/squished
<luisbg> tried to change the xorg.conf but that didn't work
<luisbg> did you got to fix it?
<Hobbsee> luisbg: what chipset?
<luisbg> Hobbsee, I'm using a ati radeon 9200
<luisbg> with the ubuntu fglrx driver
<Hobbsee> ah, i know nothing about ati stuff.  did you do the stuff in !xcfg
<Hobbsee> ?
<luisbg> which stuff?
<Hobbsee> the stuff under ati
<luisbg> nope
<luisbg> guide me through plz... I would be infinitly thankful
<luisbg> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg?
<Hobbsee> i didnt read it, i just saw it had a whole lot of stuff at the end about it
<luisbg> Hobbsee, lol
<luisbg> gonna reboot the x server... let's see how it work
<luisbg> s
<luisbg> Hobbsee, sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg --- worked perfectly
<luisbg> =)
<Hobbsee> luisbg: :)  i tried that before for mine, and that ditn fix it
<luisbg> know I'm in the hard task to choose my new resolution
<luisbg> new screen's resolution is like new year's resolution
* luisbg realizes how bad his jokes are sometimes
<luisbg> pbuilder build gives me "cp: cannot create regular file `/usr//bin/driza-qt': Permission denied" : any ideas?
<minghua> http://davyd.livejournal.com/199152.html  # GNOME bugzilla applet
<minghua> if only the Karma on LP is meaningful, then we can make a similar one
<Burgwork> the Karma needs to stop bloody changing, like some secret sauce
<Burgwork> that is clearly Marks influence
<LaserJock> where the heck is network manager?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: network-manager-gnome?
<LaserJock> well, I have it installed
<LaserJock> but now I don't know what to do
<LaserJock> I'm feeling stupid
<Burgundavia> it should be in your notification area
<Burgundavia> did you install -gnome or just n-m?
<LaserJock> I think -gnome
<LaserJock> what does it look like?
<bmonty> you have to add the applet to the taskbar
<Burgundavia> no, you shouldn't
<LaserJock> Network Monitor?
<Burgundavia> unless it changed in the edgy cycle
<Burgundavia> you might need to logout and login
<LaserJock> well, I have
<LaserJock> I've had it installed forever
<Burgundavia> try rebooting
<LaserJock> but I've never used it
<Burgundavia> have you got a notification area?
<LaserJock> unless I have and didn't know it :/
<Burgundavia> those can get removed accidentally
<LaserJock> yeah, I have a notification area
<LaserJock> I have 2 networking icons
<Burgundavia> one of those is nm
<LaserJock> but nothing very useful for wifi
<Burgundavia> the one with the bars
<Burgundavia> click on them both
<LaserJock> oh really
<Burgundavia> ya rly
<LaserJock> hmm, I didn't know that was n-m
<LaserJock> it's not very helpful
<Burgundavia> because it is just that integrate
<Burgundavia> +d
<Burgundavia> should it have a 5 page setup thingy like amarok
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> but it isn't helpful
<Burgundavia> would you like to us mysql[]  or sqllite[] 
<Burgundavia> its own is "just work"
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what it's supposed to do
<Burgundavia> you click on it and choose your network
<LaserJock> but it doesn't give me a choice
<Burgundavia> do you even know what to look for?
<Burgundavia> http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/
<Burgundavia> it should look like that screenshot
<LaserJock> it totally doesn't though
<LaserJock> it just shows the status of my connection
<LaserJock> nothing exciting
<Burgundavia> remove that
<Burgundavia> you have two, you said?
<Burgundavia> one is the network thingy from gnome
<Burgundavia> the other is nm
<LaserJock> yeah, they both seem equally useless
<LaserJock> well, the gnome one seems more so
<Burgundavia> what do the icons look like?
<Burgundavia> can you paste bin a screenshot?
<LaserJock> probably :-)
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> well there is one with the bar
<LaserJock> which I'm assuming is n-m
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> nm has lots of bars
<Burgundavia> like that fracking cingular ad
<LaserJock> oh
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: ok, the icon has changed
<Burgundavia> you need the one with two screens and a small warning sign
<Burgundavia> black screens
<Burgundavia> click on that
<Burgundavia> it should bring up a menu
<LaserJock> "No Network Devices Found"
<Burgundavia> then have you an n-m bug
<LaserJock> oh, great
<Burgundavia> file it
<LaserJock> I thought the gnome one was n-m
<LaserJock> oops
<Burgundavia> no, no it is not
<LaserJock> I was wondering what all the fuss was about
<LaserJock> weird, I don't see a bug close to this on LP
<Burgundavia> you are certain you have the package network-manager-gnome installed?
<Burgundavia> not just network-manager
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> ii  network-manager-gnome                  0.6.3-2ubuntu6
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> can you email me a screenshot of nm with its window open?
<LaserJock> well, there isn't a window open
<Burgundavia> the drop down one
<LaserJock> there isn't really anything there
<LaserJock> it was just a single grey line with "No Network Device Found"
<LaserJock> so I right-clicked and uncheck "Enable Networking"
<LaserJock> and then re-enabled it
<LaserJock> so now it has a single greyed out line that says "Wired Network"
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> try the same for wireless
<LaserJock> there is no wireless
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> are you plugged in?
<LaserJock> to ethernet?
<LaserJock> no
<Burgundavia> that is why
<Burgundavia> it isn't do anything becuase there is nothing to do
<LaserJock> I have to have an ethernet cable plugged in?
<Burgundavia> you have no wireless and it can
<Burgundavia> t find an active wired card
<LaserJock> but my wireless is working
<Burgundavia> then it is not finding your wireless
<LaserJock> I'm talking to you right now
<LaserJock> ok
<Burgundavia> what chipset?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5212 802.11abg NIC
<Burgundavia> and madwifi
<LaserJock> is that a package?
<Burgundavia> the name of the atheros driver
<Burgundavia> known to be slightly crackish
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<LaserJock> I"m not sure what I'm looking for but I have no madwifi package or kernel module
<Burgundavia> ath_pci is your kernel module
<LaserJock> ah yes, I do have that
<Burgundavia> hmm, i have a 5212 and it works great
<Burgundavia> when did you install nm?
<nixternal> LaserJock: i saw a gnome n-m presentation this week, and in ubuntu it required some configuration in edgy before it was up and rocking the way it should
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: dapper I believe
<Burgundavia> nixternal: no, no it doesn't
<nixternal> sharms knows all about it, as it was him who gave a great presenation on it...it actually made me want it for KDE ;)
<Burgundavia> install, logout and login
<Burgundavia> nixternal: knetworkmanager
<nixternal> Burgundavia: he didn't logout after installing...and to knetworkmanager gahahahah ;)
<nixternal> did i say that out loud?
<Burgundavia> nm is the future, it just needs to work out a few bugs
<LaserJock> hmm, how odd
<nixternal> my laptop isn't good enough to run it ;)
<LaserJock> I wonder if I could remove n-m and reinstall it
<LaserJock> I can't imagine that would help
<LaserJock> brb
<LaserJock> no luck
<LaserJock> is there a place where n-m keeps configs
<joejaxx> LaserJock: when do you arrive?
<LaserJock> tomorrow some time
<LaserJock> probably in the afternoon
<LaserJock> I'm at my grandpa's now
<LaserJock> discussing MS and Novell
<joejaxx> ah ok :)
<LaserJock> interestingly, my grandpa and uncle saw the MS/Novell story on TV
<LaserJock> and said, "Wow, the Linux stuff must be taking over"
<Burgundavia> then they asked you when you were going to make some real money off it?
<LaserJock> no
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> sure
<LaserJock> they said, "This open source thing seems like the way of the future"
<Burgundavia> nice
<Burgundavia> all the sales people at Userful now firmly believe that if our stuff was open source we would be making more money
<Burgundavia> and these are not people who drink the koolaid like I do
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> I am curious about open source business models
<Burgundavia> it is all about support
<Burgundavia> that is essentially all we do currently
<LaserJock> I saw an argument against Canonical about that though
<Burgundavia> what do you think RH makes it money off of?
<LaserJock> that it was bad to have a business model around support
<Burgundavia> RH is almost entirely support
<LaserJock> because the business is better when there is more problems
<Burgundavia> and their customers rave about it
<Burgundavia> I think I am going to blog "Eich ein RedHatters"
<Burgundavia> or something like that
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well, this open source is still a hobby for me
<Burgundavia> seriously, I now trust Novell a great deal less today
<LaserJock> but there is an "Open Chemistry" movement that's interesting
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: NM will ignore interfaces that have configuration in /etc/network/interfaces/
<Fujitsu> *interfaces.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ooohh
<LaserJock> that could be
<Fujitsu> (just got back from re-stocking pond with fish)
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: ah, hence why it just works on my edgy machine
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: I think that patch got dropped
<LaserJock> ok, so should there be *nothing* in interfaces about it
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: What patch?
<Burgundavia> the patch to ignore stuff in /etc/network/interfaces
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: If there's anything at all in interfaces mentioning an interface, it'll ignore the interface.
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: that is not true
<nixternal> oh ya, Fujitsu is right..that is exactly what sharms tweaked in order for NM to work ;) sorry i didn't remember that
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: That's not a patch, that's an upstream feature....
<Burgundavia> auto ath0
<Burgundavia> iface ath0 inet dhcp <-- that part of my /etc/network/interfaces
<Burgundavia> and yet nm works fine
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Without that, you can't have any static interfaces.
<Fujitsu> Do you have a manually set SSID?
<LaserJock> I do yes
<Fujitsu> It may be that which is doing it, though it's best to remove all lines referring to it.
<LaserJock> do I need to reboot after getting rid of that?
<LaserJock> or will logout do?
<Fujitsu> No, you'll need to /etc/init.d/networking restart.
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: no, that ignore stuff is one of our patches
<Burgundavia> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/n/network-manager/network-manager_0.6.3-2ubuntu6/changelog
<Burgundavia> look at 6.2.2-2
<Fujitsu> Ah, true.
<Fujitsu> But that patch is still there.
<Fujitsu> +       /* If the interface isn't listed in /etc/network/interfaces then
<Fujitsu> +        * it's considered okay to control it.
<Fujitsu> +        */
<Burgundavia> actually, if it isn't listed as auto, don't touch it
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Burgandavia:
<Fujitsu> +       /* If the interface has no options other than just "inet dhcp"
<Fujitsu> +        * it's probably ok to fiddle with it.
<Fujitsu> +        */
<Fujitsu> *Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> yes
<Fujitsu> That's why yours works.
<Burgundavia> yep
<LaserJock> \o/
<Burgundavia> nm is great and really should be the only networking tool on the ssystem
<Burgundavia> it, howver, isn't there yet
<LaserJock> I just removed the ssid line in interfaces, leaving the rest
<LaserJock> restarted networking
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: As long as it has no more than inet dhcp, it should work.
<LaserJock> and re-enabled n-m
<LaserJock> and it's all good
<Fujitsu> Good, good.
<LaserJock> gotta get this thing ready for Google's Mt. View wifi :-)
<dredg> nothing like being at an airport at 5am to make you want to dig your eyes out with a rusty spoon
<dredg> huzzah for oh-so-early-o-fucking-clock. and then your laptop battery dies :(
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: more evidence of a giant KDE conspiracy http://launchpad.net/bugs/70184 :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70184 in meta-kde "Kde and kde applications make X crash " [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<nixternal> bah, he crashes X, not KDE ;)
<Burgundavia> nixternal: but KDE crashes X, not GNOME
<nixternal> reply with "Enjoy Xephyr"
<Burgundavia> clearly there are hidden KDE licensing restrictions imposed by Trolltech to prevent it :)
<LaserJock> heh
<nixternal> of course, how long has Qt been GPLd now?
<imbrandon> fully ?
<Burgundavia> you must be part of the conspiracy
<nixternal> of course I am
<nixternal> im the CLIT Commander
<Burgundavia> because denial implies collusion
<LaserJock> hmm
* imbrandon cant sleep
<nixternal> jay and silent bob own you, they are my 2nd in commands
<LaserJock> imbrandon!
<imbrandon> LaserJock: !!
<imbrandon> LaserJock: heya i decided i'm going to take my other cell phone ? got a pen ?
<imbrandon> it will get better coverage
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> he kills me with that "got a pen" line
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> imbrandon:
<LaserJock> go for it
<LaserJock> nixternal: I almost did it, that's the sad part
<imbrandon> 1-816-810-3757
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> thats the phone i will be taking ^^
<imbrandon> the other drops calls too much
<Fujitsu> What a long phone number.
<imbrandon> not as long as kwwii's Fujitsu
<imbrandon> his is like 14 digits
<imbrandon> or some crazy stuff
<nixternal> 01234567890142465
<nixternal> thats my number
<nixternal> mine used to 445-5150 for van halen, then i got 445-1013 for sammy's bday, and now i can't remember my new one..like 3860 or some garbage
<nixternal> im apalled that he actually filed a bug report against meta-kde on that one..and the says "I'm using a multiterminal setup, using xephyr and evdev to use my computer as two."...
<imbrandon> huh ?
<imbrandon> man all this talk of nm , and i can never get that to work
<imbrandon> it dont like my wireless card
<imbrandon> :(
<LaserJock> anybody know anything about bibus?
<imbrandon> not i
<LaserJock> it seems to be a pretty popular bibliography tool
<LaserJock> you can use it with OO.o
<LaserJock> but we don't have it in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> and it looks like it's GPL
<predius_> Is that professional or perfectionist?
<imbrandon> ahh that would be why, i dont use OO.o
<predius_> err
<imbrandon> :)
<predius_> wrong channel
<Burgundavia> nixternal: I sell multiseat all day. In fact, I use it at work
<Burgundavia> it is quite stable, but that implementation is not
<nixternal> im willing to bet he couldn't figure out where to file a bug for xephyr
<nixternal> Burgundavia: what are you and i going to do this week?  we are mtv no-go's
<Burgundavia> grumble
<Burgundavia> be cynical
<nixternal> ya, same here
<imbrandon> heh
<Burgundavia> get my boss to tell me I should "s** butterflies as a salesman"
<nixternal> i have to work in a few hours on a project, and then shoot to IIT to see the RMS talk
<imbrandon> thats me and ajmitch's job :)
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: you ain't seen cynical until bhale and I get together
<nixternal> hahaha Burgundavia, i have never heard that term before, but i will use it from this point on
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: hehe
<Burgundavia> apparently I am "too down", mostly 'cause I don't believe in the company I work for or the product I sell
<imbrandon> ouch, yea that does suck
<imbrandon> man i really should be asleep right now, i guess i'll try to sleep on the plane
<nixternal> lol, thats why i left my last job...oh wait, they made me leave
<nixternal> i can't sleep on a plane...i want to know when im crashing ;)
<nixternal> i have to drink before i fly..otherwise im a wreck
<imbrandon> bah there is nothing you can do
<imbrandon> so might as well not know
<nixternal> lol
<Amaranth> so...
<nixternal> im sure all the screaming will wake you up
<Amaranth> I don't know how to drive, can someone pick me up when it's time to go on sunday?
<nixternal> my old man flies pretty much every week..i couldn't do it
<nixternal> Amaranth: a majoriy of americans don't know how to drive either, yet they do it daily
<imbrandon> Amaranth: what hotel are you at >?
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> uh, let me get the name again
<nixternal> canonical should have gotten a group discount, and resold the rooms to people
<Amaranth> Quality Inn & Suites - 5 Fairchild Drive , Mountain View, CA, US, 94043
<Amaranth> dunno my room number yet
<Amaranth> cell phone is 712-899-4732
<imbrandon> ahh i thought you might be at the same hotel as us , hrm
<Amaranth> couldn't
<imbrandon> i dont know whos gonna be driving, not me
<imbrandon> how far is it from google hq? call a cab last resort
<Amaranth> 3 miles
<LaserJock> I might be able to help out
<LaserJock> I'm not crazy about driving
<LaserJock> but I'll have a minivan
<Amaranth> heh
<LaserJock> and Amaranth is halfway between me and the UDS hotel
<LaserJock> I'll be 1.6 miles from Google
<LaserJock> Amaranth: when will you arrive?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: plane lands at 11pm tomorrow night
<LaserJock> I see
<Amaranth> i can get to my hotel fine with caltrain and a short cab ride
<Amaranth> just was hoping to get a ride instead of having to take a cab to go 3 miles :P
<Amaranth> (for sunday)
<LaserJock> does anybody know what building we are going to be at?
<Amaranth> not i
<LaserJock> I'm wondering how parking will be too for those of us that are driving
<LaserJock> I suppose I can wander around the googleplex
<LaserJock> but there's at least 4 buildings
<Amaranth> i wouldn't complain about having to wonder around a bit ;)
<LaserJock> you gotta be careful
<Amaranth> err, wander
<Amaranth> why are google's lawyers going to attack me?
<LaserJock> it's not exactly a completely open source establishment, if you know what I mean
<LaserJock> when I was there we had to sign all this stuff
<LaserJock> and they had people watching us
<Amaranth> nice
<LaserJock> making sure we didn't wander out of the "designated" area
<Amaranth> i just want to meet chris dibona and leslie hawthorn :P
<Amaranth> they ran the summer of code
<Amaranth> i'm owed a tour ;)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> are we using ekiga? does anybody know
<Burgundavia> they are using SIP
<Burgundavia> there is a page on the wiki
<LaserJock> hmm
<imbrandon> ekiga is a sip client iirc
<imbrandon> never used it though
<Amaranth> don't suppose anyone here has an ipod?
<imbrandon> i do
<imbrandon> 4gig nano
* Amaranth forgot his cord
<imbrandon> i got mine
<Amaranth> :)
<tritium> Amaranth: are you already in MV?
<Amaranth> no
<Amaranth> i came to omaha today so i can catch my flight tomorrow
<Amaranth> staying at my grandparents'
<tritium> ah
<imbrandon> omaha ne?
<Amaranth> yep
<imbrandon> thats not far from me
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> cupple hours
<Amaranth> my uncle comes here every weekday for work, caught a ride with him
<Amaranth> i live in sioux city iowa
<imbrandon> ahh
<Burgundavia> Amaranth's ticket was cheap, hence why he got to go via my credit card
<imbrandon> i'm in KC
* Amaranth bows to the great Burgundavia
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> seems more people were sponsored by a community member this time
<imbrandon> that cool
<imbrandon> +s
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<Burgundavia> I wish I could sponsor a few more, but the details didn't quite get worked out (not my money, for them)
<imbrandon> ahh :)
<imbrandon> still cool
<imbrandon> if canonical dident sponsor me i wouldent have been able to go
* StevenK is pondering asking his employer to pay for his ticket to the next UDS.
<StevenK> (If I decide I want to/can go)
<imbrandon> heya StevenK
* StevenK waves.
<Burgundavia> StevenK: whom do you work for?
<StevenK> Ursys, we make small satellite routers based on Debian.
<Burgundavia> I am certain you could
<StevenK> However, a lot of people around the office use Ubuntu.
<nixternal> oh wow, sun is going to be at UDS on Monday to announce the certification for Ubuntu on their x86 servers, and to announce the details of their partnership
<nixternal> Ubuntu and Gentoo are the only Linux distros on board with Sun..interesting
<tritium> Where did you read this, nixternal ?
<LaserJock> ahh, my 2 favorites ;-)
<nixternal> linked on lxer
<nixternal> check out http://www.redhat.com
<nixternal> look at their new banner ;)
<Burgundavia> red hat rocks, I have to say
<nixternal> ditto Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> as a corporation, they should still be mistrusted
<nixternal> i really like the fact they aren't being PC, and that they are showing a spine
<Burgundavia> but they are making all the right moves
<nixternal> Microsoft and Novell: Fox marries chicken, both move into henhouse
<nixternal> hahahahahaha
<LaserJock> I don't really understand what they MS/Novell thing really is
<Burgundavia> Novell hoping to buy peace
<Burgundavia> and hoping to get into a few more server rooms
<nixternal> personally, it is the middle finger to the Linux community
<LaserJock> why are they afraid of MS?
<StevenK> Novell are going nowhere near my server rooms, at home or work.
<LaserJock> why do they need to buy peace
<nixternal> i mean come on, Microsoft is selling Linux Support?
<Burgundavia> because every major tech company violates every other major tech companies patents
<Burgundavia> every last one
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> ok
<Burgundavia> most have cross licensing deals
<Burgundavia> so none of these patents get tested in court
<nixternal> oh, and lets not forget the $600m USD default Novell is a part of, which in fact they were in jeopardy of lossing their stock, but oh guess what, the SEC says they are safe now, even though they still owe $600m
<Burgundavia> and one of the tests that the courts use is "has somebody paid you for it"
<LaserJock> sweet, I've got an ekiga account now
<LaserJock> not sure what I'm going to do with it
<LaserJock> but I've got it :-)
<nixternal> hmm
<nixternal> kde don't have ekiga, but it is planned to have a substitue for 7.04
<Burgundavia> they have SIP clients
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate/Ekiga
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate/KPhone
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate/SIP
<siretart> is anyone able to reach 6701@canonical.com?
<Burgundavia> siretart: nope, but jsgotangco is playing with it
<jsgotangco> it doesn't seem to ring
<jsgotangco> i thought it was my audio settings but i had skype do a callback so nothing seems wrong with my audio
<MehdiHassanpour> hey all
<MehdiHassanpour> I'm Mehdi from Iranian LoCo Team
<jsgotangco> hi
<MehdiHassanpour> we have an English To Persian dictionary and would like to have it's packages in Ubuntu's multiverse repo
<MehdiHassanpour> this is the only and first English to Persian dic we have on linuces
<MehdiHassanpour> I need some help if this is possible...
<jsgotangco> why multiverse?
<MehdiHassanpour> where can we have it ?
<crimsun> if its license is Free, then it should go into universe
<MehdiHassanpour> we have it on Parsix repos too but would like to make it easier for ubuntu users using and updating...
<MehdiHassanpour> ?
<Burgundavia> MehdiHassanpour: what license is our stuff under?
<MehdiHassanpour> we would like to make it easier for ubuntu users installing and updating
<MehdiHassanpour> GPL
<Burgundavia> then it can go in universe, unless there are any patent or trademark issues with it
<MehdiHassanpour> good
<MehdiHassanpour> what is the process? how should I do that ?
<MehdiHassanpour> we have it on Parsix Gnu/Linux too, the license is GPL and sourceforge has hosted the project
<Burgundavia> do you have debian source packages already prepared?
<MehdiHassanpour> yep
<MehdiHassanpour> this is the deb package
<MehdiHassanpour> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/xfardic/xfardic_0.8.0-0ubuntu1_i386.deb?download
<Burgundavia> do you have soure pages? .dsc, .orig.tar.gz, etc.?
<MehdiHassanpour> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/xfardic/xfardic-0.8.0-src.tar.gz?download
<MehdiHassanpour> this is the source package
<Burgundavia> crimsun: want to save me?
<crimsun> MehdiHassanpour: hmm, that's just the orig.tar.gz
<crimsun> MehdiHassanpour: where're the dsc and diff.gz?
<crimsun> MehdiHassanpour: how was the deb generated?
<MehdiHassanpour> you can find all packages here
<MehdiHassanpour> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xfardic
<MehdiHassanpour> we have generated it Iranian debian, parsix, ubuntu users...
<MehdiHassanpour> we have rpm packages too
<crimsun> ah, you meant debian-xfardic in svn
<crimsun> ok, what you need to do is generate a proper source package (source-only, no binaries), and upload the source package to REVU (see the topic)
<MehdiHassanpour> we don't have it on Debian repos
<crimsun> sorry, what does that mean?
<crimsun> [I'm referring to http://xfardic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/xfardic/debian-xfardic/ ] 
<MehdiHassanpour> ok, yes
<MehdiHassanpour> ok, so I will upload source packages to REVU
<MehdiHassanpour> then who will create ubuntu binary packges for universe ?
<crimsun> the buildds will.
<crimsun> we only upload source packages. The buildd infrastructure takes care of the rest.
<crimsun> before your source package can be uploaded to Ubuntu, however, it needs approval from 2 MOTU on REVU.
<MehdiHassanpour> so I should ask MOTU to accept the package too
<crimsun> no, we'll review it on REVU
<crimsun> (peer review)
<MehdiHassanpour> thanks
<crimsun> np. 'morning, gauvain
<Gloubiboulga> hello Daniel
<MehdiHassanpour> I joined the team REVU team in launchpad, sorry where should I upload packages ?
<crimsun> MehdiHassanpour: have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU ?
<MehdiHassanpour> nope, ty :)
<crimsun> it's a shame #ubuntu is turning into {#,}#debian
<Burgundavia> crimsun: why so?
<crimsun> offtopic chatter that turns ugly
<Burgundavia> ah
<Amaranth> crimsun: excessive kick forwarding to the rescue
<Amaranth> Hmm.
<Amaranth> Looks like I have to take this BART thing to Millbrae station then go to caltrain to get to sunnyvale station
* imbrandon is on the airport wifi
<StevenK> imbrandon: How long until your flight?
<imbrandon> 1 hour 15 minutes
<imbrandon> dunno if my battery will last that long though
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> Heh
* StevenK pats the 7 hour battery on his X40.
<Burgundavia> I get 45 minutes
<imbrandon> i get about 3 hours but i forgot to charge fully before i left the house
<StevenK> Heh, neat.
<StevenK> I note gnome-power-manager in Edgy seems a little silly.
<StevenK> I unplug my fully charged laptop from AC, and it tells me I have 18 minutes of power left.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> probably a hal thing
<imbrandon> hal reporting it wrong
* StevenK didn't think of blaming hal.
<imbrandon> i know the kde one ready the info from hal, dunno bout the gnome one but i would assume so
<imbrandon> s/ready/read
<Burgundavia> acpi, actually
<StevenK> I've been meaning to nastygram gnome-power-manager, I just haven't yet.
<Burgundavia> StevenK: how so?
<StevenK> Burgundavia: Hrrm?
<Burgundavia> <StevenK> I've been meaning to nastygram gnome-power-manager, I just haven't yet.
<StevenK> Yes, I was looking for more context.
<StevenK> How so what?
<Burgundavia> in what way?
<StevenK> When I say nastygram I mean file a bug in launchpad.
<Burgundavia> ah
<imbrandon> brb /me go's to look for a power outlet
<Fujitsu> GOES!
<Fujitsu> (Hi Hobbsee)
<Hobbsee> hey all
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: i'll get out of the habbit someday
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon, where are you now?
<imbrandon> at the airport in KC
<imbrandon> 15 minutes till i get on the plane
<imbrandon> ( soaking up free wifi )
<Hobbsee> KC?
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<imbrandon> Kansas City
<imbrandon> e.g. home, getting ready to board the flight
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> yep
<imbrandon> all ready went through security etc
<imbrandon> just killing minutes
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> they didnt find you to be a terrorist?
<imbrandon> heh nope
<StevenK> They're *WRONG*, wrong I say!
<imbrandon> dident even make me boot my laptop
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> haha
<StevenK> imbrandon: I note didn't doesn't have an 'e'.
<imbrandon> bah lol
* StevenK will teach imbrandon to spell, even if it kills him.
<StevenK> It probably will.
<imbrandon> i use computers for 3 reasons , 1)fun 2)spellcheck 3)calculator :)
<imbrandon> makes me lazy
<Hobbsee> python makes a very nice calculator
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: +1
* Hobbsee has been utilising it
<Fujitsu> That's what I always use.
<StevenK> Python can do much better things.
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> Like display useless about boxes like the one I've been hacking on for the past three days.
* Fujitsu heads to bed.
<imbrandon> katapult make a nice calc too
<imbrandon> later Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> But Kakakulk is too KDE.
<imbrandon> StevenK: heh ever get that working ?
<Fujitsu> *koo
<imbrandon> heh s/c/k/ only
<StevenK> imbrandon: Sure I did.
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> StevenK: nice
<StevenK> http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/wip.png
<imbrandon> very cool
<StevenK> :-)
<imbrandon> whats that part of ?
<imbrandon> is there a kde equiv ?
<StevenK> The Tux and KDE logo have buggered off, but that's it.
<imbrandon> i like that, pretty slick
<StevenK> It's a simple PyGTK program laid out in a spec.
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> probably wouldent be hard to make the same thing in pykde
<StevenK> There's a pykde?
<imbrandon> yea
* StevenK had no idea.
<imbrandon> pyqt and pykde
<StevenK> Personally, I think it looks fine under Gnome or KDE.
<imbrandon> true but i like my intergration :) although thats simple enough it really dont matter much cept for deps
<StevenK> Exactly.
<imbrandon> http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pykde/  python-kde iirc is the package
<imbrandon> in *buntu
<StevenK> Python-gtk2 and python-glade2, it's another 2Mb installed.
<imbrandon> yea but what about all the other gtk* stuff python-gtk needs
<imbrandon> no real biggies , just saying
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: I had a minimal chroot unpacked, installed kubuntu-desktop, and installed Python-gtk2 and python-glade2, and it pulled it like 5 packages. All of them small.
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> thats not too bad
<imbrandon> better than kde{libs,base} on ubuntu
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> If you give me 5 minutes, I can even tell you what they are. :-)
<imbrandon> nah thats cool, we bord in about 5 minutes
<imbrandon> board
<StevenK> I figured. :-)
<StevenK> How long is the flight?
<imbrandon> from here to denver 2 hours then a 1 hour layover
<imbrandon> then 3 more to SF
* StevenK nods.
<imbrandon> i might be able to poke in for a minute in denver, dunno with only an hour layover
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> You know, you will survive for 6 hours without IRC.
<imbrandon> yup yup
<StevenK> "That's what my doctor says." ?
* StevenK smirks a little.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> irc i can live without but i dunno about no smokes
<StevenK> Heh
* StevenK pictures a trembling wreck of an imbrandon arriving at the Googleplex, seeing a No Smoking sign, and collapsing in a heap.
<imbrandon> anyhow time to detach boarding started, see yall in denver maybe , if not SF
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<imbrandon> exactly
<StevenK> imbrandon: Enjoy your flight!
<imbrandon> thanks ! <detaches>
<Hobbsee> bye!
<Hobbsee> anyone around?  having some trouble with pbuilder - says chroot: cannot run command `/usr/bin/apt-get': Permission denied
<Hobbsee> and i'm running it with sudo
<sladen> Hobbsee: what are the permission on the /usr/bin/apt-get in the chroot?
<Hobbsee> sladen: how do i find out?
<sladen> Hobbsee: ls -l foo/chroot/usr/bin/apt-get
<Hobbsee> ahh.  seems i didnt have fakeroot installed, but same thing
<Hobbsee> where foo is?
<sladen> Hobbsee: foo is where-ever you have the chroot
<Hobbsee> sladen: i dont have a chroot - it's created thru pbuilder
<Mez> Hobbsee, sudo pbuilder login
<Mez> and then you're in a shell inside the chroot
<Mez> if you find an error, then login using
<Mez> sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login
<Mez> and it'll save your changes to the chroot
<Mez> Hobbsee, or just create a new chroot
<Hobbsee> i was trying to avoid that :P
<Mez> then do wha tI said ;)
<Hobbsee> it wont let me use one of the hooks
<Mez> hooks ?
* Hobbsee moves it, and tries again
<Mez> why do you need hooks /
<Hobbsee> chroot: cannot run command `bin/bash': Permission denied
<Mez> you are sudo'ing right ?
<Hobbsee> of course.
<Mez> o-O
<Mez> what did you do to b0rk it that bad?
<Hobbsee> it's on a different partition, which is owned by the user, not by root
<Hobbsee> i've seriously got NFI....
<Hobbsee> i'm wondering if rebuilding it will fix it
<Hobbsee> or if there's somethign else wrong
<Mez> Hobbsee, same for my pbuilds
<Mez> Hobbsee,as long as debootstrap works;
<Hobbsee> hmmmm
* Mez is planning to make his own buildd ;)
* Hobbsee creates it again
<Hobbsee> I: Extracting zlib1g...
<Hobbsee> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /media/devel/pbuilder/edgy/build/13378/. mount -t proc proc /proc
<Hobbsee> pbuilder: debootstrap failed
<Hobbsee>  -> Aborting with an error
<Hobbsee>  -> cleaning the build env
<Hobbsee> Mez: ^
<Mez> what filesystem type is /media/devel
<Hobbsee> ext3
<Mez> wait.... o_O
<Mez> try
<Mez> sudo chroot /media/devel/pbuilder/edgy/build/13378/
<Mez> see if that actually works
<Mez> it might be a problem in chroot
<Hobbsee> Mez: it's cleaned it
<Mez> hmmles
<Hobbsee> unless you need dchroot installed or something...
<Mez> Hobbsee, I got to go out, are you going to be around later for me to help you out ?
<Hobbsee> Mez: i might have gone to bed.
<Mez> bout an hour and a half
<Hobbsee> i'll likely be asleep by then, but i'll back back on later
<Hobbsee> it's 1am atm
<Mez> ah, well I'm sure I'll see you online after I finish work ;)
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> Mez: if i could eyeball your pbuilderrc, that mgith be helpful
<Hobbsee> Mez: and your fstab line for mounting that partition ki guess
<Mez> http://rafb.net/paste/results/FSCzDR90.html
<Hobbsee> thanks
<Hobbsee> Mez: so you write to that as root all the time then?
<Mez> /scratch, yeah ... I do ...
<Mez> it's just an ext3 mount chown'd to ke
<Hobbsee> Mez: and i dont think that pbuilderrc was the one you were looking for?  it doestn refer to /scratch
<Mez> s/ke/me
<Mez> Hobbsee, I use command line switches ;)
<Hobbsee> oh right
<Mez> sudo  pbuilder create --distribution edgy --basetgz /scratch/pbuilds/edgy.tgz --buildplace /scratch/build --apt-cache /scratch/aptcache/edgy --buildresult /scratch/buildresult/edgy/
<Mez> lol - i dont knwo why i added he buildresult to that
<Mez> habvit i guess
<Hobbsee> right
<Mez> it's cause i find it easier to do it that way for different chroots
<Hobbsee> yep
<Mez> (having to build in sid etc)
<Hobbsee> there's a section on multiple pbuilders in !pbuilder, if you didnt konw
<Mez> Hobbsee, i do know ;) i just have my way of doing things
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<Mez> it's the same stuff that's used on tiber ;)
<Hobbsee> ahhhh
<Mez> Hobbsee, but usually i use pdebuild -- --<pbuilder options>
<Hobbsee> yep
<Mez> rather than pbuilder build
<Mez> i find it easier ;)
<Mez> right I really ought a go
<Hobbsee> same here
<Hobbsee> okay
<Hobbsee> thanks for the help
<Mez> argh ... CD's ripping still
<Mez> lol
<Mez> Hobbsee, plus i have seperate pbuilds for main and universe
<Hobbsee> ahhh, true
<Mez> ;)
<Mez> as I do for sid (main and non-free)
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  it failed again
<Mez> Hobbsee ... o_O
<lfittl> hmm, whats the current upload policy for dapper-updates/universe (want to fix bug #59269)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59269 in lighttpd "lighttpd fails to restart during logrotate script" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59269
<gnomefreak> lfittl: very strict
<Adri2000> I'm trying to package a python software with cdbs and python-distutils.mk... build fails here : "python2.5 setup.py" (python2.5: not found), I don't understand why cdbs uses python2.5 and not just python ?
<Amaranth> Adri2000: it uses 2.3, 2.4, and 2.5
<Amaranth> Adri2000: your package should depend on python-all-dev
<Amaranth> build-depend*
<Adri2000> python and python-all-dev or python-all-dev is enough ?
<Amaranth> python-all-dev should pull in everything
<Adri2000> ok
<lfittl> gnomefreak: is there anything on the wiki about it?
<gnomefreak> not that i know of
<lfittl> (or is it documented anywhere else)
<lfittl> gnomefreak: hmm, do you know enough about it to tell me what to do?
<gnomefreak> lfittl: you would have to talk to ajmitch (theres more people) but hes the only one i remember.
<lfittl> gnomefreak: k, thanks
<lfittl> ajmitch: ping, what should be done to upload a bugfix to dapper-updates/universe? (bug #59269, bug #68401)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59269 in lighttpd "lighttpd fails to restart during logrotate script" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59269
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68401 in lighttpd "Cannot remove the lighttpd pkg from Edgy Eft" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68401
<Adri2000> I'm still trying to make my python package work... with cdbs and setup.py, the problem now is that in the config files it's written (for example) /tmp/buildd/umit-0.9.3/debian/umit/usr/config/umit instead of /usr/config/umit
<bmonty> Adri2000: where does "dpkg-deb -c" show the files?
<bmonty> also /usr/config is not where you should put config files, /usr/share/umit would be better
<Adri2000> dpkg -c says /usr/... nothing in /tmp/buildd/...
<Adri2000> the problem is just in the config files
<bmonty> use "dpkg-deb" on the .deb file you created
<bmonty> how are you building the package?
<Adri2000> pbuilder
<Adri2000> dpkg-deb with which option ?
<bmonty> ok, and the package builds successfully?
<Adri2000> yes
<bmonty> dpkg-deb -c will list the contents of the package....the paths shown there are where the files will be put when you install the package
<Adri2000> yep dpkg -c and dpkg-deb -c are the same
<bmonty> ok, so those commands show the files where you want them, right?
<Adri2000> dpkg-deb -c also says /usr/... and not /tmp/buildd/...
<Adri2000> yep (except the files in /usr/config but I will fix that later)
<bmonty> /tmp/buildd is where the files were put temporarily while the package was being built
<Adri2000> and seems that setup.py took this path for the config files
<Adri2000> bmonty: no idea?
<bmonty> Adri2000: have you looked http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ ?
<Adri2000> "FIXME: Someone familiar with CDBS should write this part." :-)
<bmonty> kil4vorg
<bmonty> Adri2000: I'm not sure how to fix it, but I would start by looking at other packages for python programs
<Adri2000> python program with setup.py packaged with cdbs... I will try to find this
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you here?
<minghua> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<LaserJock> apparently imbrandon is stuck in Denver
<bmonty> there are worse airports to be stuck at
<LaserJock> for sure
<LaserJock> but he's meeting the AU/NZ people in SF
<minghua> didn't imbrandon post his cell phone number?
<LaserJock> yeah, he called me this morning
<LaserJock> to tell me
<minghua> oh
<LaserJock> hehe, #ubuntu-burning
<LaserJock> "Channel for Debian people not happy about Ubuntu"
<bhale> sigh
<LaserJock> I'm just kidding bhale
<Amaranth> LaserJock: do you have a cell phone?
<Amaranth> wow i'm glad i'm not going through denver :P
<Amaranth> i was going to be at first
<LaserJock> Amaranth: yes
<LaserJock> does anybody have ajmitch's lifeless's cell phone number?
* bhale wonders update updating to feisty
<Amaranth> bhale: fun stuff
<Amaranth> new glibc, binutils, kernel, etc
<bhale> im aware
<Amaranth> i haven't tried installing any of it, waiting to see if anyone survives the upgrade
<chantra> hi there, shall we start packaging for feisty then?
<chantra> one of my package got some upstream updates, can I still upload it to revu or not?
<chantra> so it get included in edgy-updates
<Adri2000> chantra: new upstream version in -updates? I don't think so...
<chantra> so I shall only upload for feisty
<Adri2000> yes
<chantra> Adri2000: actually, the new upstream release comes with some bug fixes :)
<Adri2000> and maybe with some new bugs :/
<Adri2000> that's the problem
<geser> chantra: until those fixes are for important or security bugs I doubt you get an approval from motu-sru
<chantra> to get a new feisty box, as usual, install a new edgy and then change repositories and update
<chantra> geser: Adri2000 okie dokie
<chantra> okie, then, it is time for a new install :)
<chantra> catch you later guys
<chantra> hi again
<LaserJock> hi
<LaserJock> chantra: btw, if there are important bug fixes we can try to backport the fixes themselves
<luisbg> hey LaserJock
<luisbg> are you in the summit=
<luisbg> ?
<LaserJock> not quite yet
<LaserJock> I'm at my grandpa's house
<LaserJock> which is half way there
<chantra> LaserJock: you can see the changelogs there: http://kitone.free.fr/subtitleeditor/
<chantra> version 0.11 is said to be an important one :s
<chantra> I've a package on my personnal repository for 0.11.1
<chantra> so it is ready to upload :)
<luisbg> LaserJock, when does the summit start?
<luisbg> LaserJock, lucky you you can be there... /me envies you
<LaserJock> Sunday morning at 9:00am local time
<luisbg> LaserJock, nice! will try to give a hand from here
<luisbg> seams like a moment loads of work is going to be done
<chantra> LaserJock: shall I upload subtitleeditor 0.11.1 to revu then?
<LaserJock> chantra: you can upload whatever you want
<chantra> :) what does this mean then? revu closed for feisty transition?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it's always open
<LaserJock> I'm just saying you can upload whatever you want
<LaserJock> it just doesn't mean it's going in right away or anything like that
<LaserJock> chantra: what version does Debian have?
<chantra> LaserJock: cheking .....
<chantra> 0.11-alpha1-1  alpha amd64 arm hppa i386 ia64 m68k mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc on testing
<chantra> 0.11-alpha2-2: alpha amd64 hppa i386 ia64 kfreebsd-i386 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc
<chantra> 0.11-alpha1-1: arm m68k
<chantra> on unstable
<LaserJock> ok, so that will be in Feisty
<chantra> okie dokie
<luisbg> how do I create a mail list for an ubuntu team?
<LaserJock> luisbg: you ask the list maintianer
<chantra> (new edgy install done) well, gonna reboot and start moving to feisty
<chantra> catch you guys
<LaserJock> luisbg: not exactly sure who that is right now
<luisbg> LaserJock, hmmm... how can I find out?
<LaserJock> luisbg: Seveas would probably know
<LaserJock> or the doc team
<LaserJock> I just can't remember exactly
<luisbg> ok cool
<Adri2000> you can try mailman@lists.ubuntu.com, but not really sure where the mail will go ^^
<LaserJock> ah yeah
<LaserJock> I just saw that
<nixternal> luisbg: file an rt request
<nixternal> mailman doens't get you far, nobody seems to answer it
<luisbg> nixternal, how do I report that?
<LaserJock> yeah, an rt is probably best
* Mez -> food
<luisbg> which sections are there in ubuntu?
<luisbg> (to fill a section: file in a debian/control)
<bddebian> Uhm, localegen isn't setting LC_ALL, should it?
<LaserJock> luisbg: go to packages.ubuntu.com or look in synaptic
<luisbg> checked that first
<luisbg> but it seems there are a few sections missing
<luisbg> especially creative stuff... an audio program where does it fall?
<minghua> luisbg: look at other audio programs
<minghua> luisbg: there is always the "utils" section to catch everything
<luisbg> minghua, ok
<enyc> I would like to suggest the MOTU build a newer prboom package, likely based on that in debian now (2.4.5-based) or better 2.4.6 (more fixes) ;-)
<LaserJock> !info prboom
<ubotu> prboom: clone of the legendary first person shooter Doom. In component universe, is optional. Version 2:2.2.6-3 (edgy), package size 364 kB, installed size 880 kB
<ogra> how many doom clones are there now ? 100 ?
<zul> probably..
<LaserJock> enyc: we automatically sync from Debian at the beginning of each development release
<enyc> LaserJock: hrrm kk... it must have 'just missed' update or something.. it could really do with updating to the 2.4.x series... which has the 'doom 1.91 demo timing hack' etc...
<cyberix> I can't play official multiplayer games in Wesnoth because the Ubuntu version is outdated :-(
<enyc> As debian have 2.4.5 now but fiesty still has 2.2.6 !!
<enyc> It should be updated ;-)
<LaserJock> enyc: well, feisty universe hasn't been synced yet I don't think
<LaserJock> we are just starting the Ubuntu Developer Summit
<enyc> LaserJock: aah ok ;-)
<bddebian> Can't I force an overwrite with apt-get install?
<bhale> bddebian: what kind of overwrite?
<bhale> bddebian: --force-confmiss?
<bddebian> bhale: I'm getting a conflicting file for libIV.so.1
<geser> apt seems to have no option to pass options to dpkg
<geser> you have to call dpkg with the right force option
<bddebian> I know there is a way to do it, I just can't freakin' remember
<cyberix> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/wesnoth/+bug/70296
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70296 in wesnoth "Can't join official multiplayer games" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<bddebian> bhale: Any idea?
<LaserJock> cyberix: looks like you need version 1.1.11 :-)
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<cyberix> LaserJock: Who could have guessed ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Hey, I've been so freakin' out of the loop.  Where are we supposed to vote for the SRU stuff?
<geser> bddebian: perhaps with apt-get -o DPkg::options="--force-overwrite" install
<geser> if I read the several manpages correctly (I'm not quite sure about the syntax)
<LaserJock> bddebian: votes over
<bddebian> Oh :-(
<bddebian> geser: What's the -o for?
<LaserJock> maybe
<LaserJock> dholbach was supposed to pick the team Saturday
<geser>  -o, --option
<geser>               Set a Configuration Option; This will set an arbitary configura
<geser>               tion option. The syntax is -o Foo::Bar=bar.
<geser> from man apt-get
<cyberix> LaserJock: I'm worried about the newbies that get bad image of Ubuntu when this doesn't work.
<LaserJock> cyberix: well, you can try to get a backport I suppose
<geser> and man apt.conf writes something about the DPkg group
<bddebian> Yeah, I was just doing that, thanks
<geser> bddebian: according to google it's Options instead of options and perhaps this helps you http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=95043
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 95043 in apt "apt-get ignores dpkg options set from command line" [Normal,Closed] 
<bddebian> Joy
<bddebian> Rockin' thanks geser
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I'm trying to direct people to the hotel
<LaserJock> brandon's called me 3 times today
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> they just called from somewhere in sunnyvale
<LaserJock> thank goodness for google maps
<ogra> LaserJock, brandon ?
<LaserJock> ogra: imbrandon
<ogra> you meantseng is coming ?
<ogra> ah
<ogra> ok
<LaserJock> he's with elkbuntu, ajmitch, lifeless, mpt, and infinity I think
<ogra> i thought you meant bhale
<LaserJock> no unfortunately I don't think he's comming
<ogra> :(
<LaserJock> ogra: are you at the sunnyvale hotel now?
<ogra> LaserJock, nope, still in a conference room with jammcq and salneav here in sF
<LaserJock> ah
<ogra> we'll leave the room at 4:30pm, have dinner at a brazilian restaurant, pick up a minivan and head over
<ajmitch> hi
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hi!
<zul> hey ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<zul> and LaserJock
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ah, so they must have found their way there..
<LaserJock> ajmitch: did you go separately?
<ajmitch> no, but I got off the train in MV
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<pygi> hello motus
<zul> convient their is a liquor store across the street
<pygi> will bug #2765 be addressed by you or should I assign to ubuntu burning team?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2765 in cdrdao "Cannot scan availables devices" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2765
<pygi> scanning entire bus is evil enough anyway!
<ajmitch> zul: you've arrived?
<zul> yep im sitting in my room trying not to nod off
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> and you didn't even have a 12 hour flight
<LaserJock> pygi: assign it to yourself if you are committed to working on it
<zul> yeah i know but i usually dont get up at 3am in the morning on a a saturday
<pygi> LaserJock: there is a functional patch, just checking was it included in edgy
<pygi> LaserJock: the entire stuff is blury, dunno if we'll embrace cdrkit for feisty
<zul> im so not use to this weather in november
<LaserJock> pygi: well, when you have a debdiff you can subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<pygi> LaserJock: ok, sure
<ajmitch> LaserJock: when do you arrive?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: not sure yet
<ajmitch> driving tonight?
* bhale hugs ogra 
<bhale> ogra: i am not coming
<LaserJock> ajmitch: oh yeah
* ajmitch feels like having a shower before subjecting the general public to this again
<LaserJock> ajmitch: probably in an hour or 3 ;-)
<bhale> ogra: see you some other time
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how long is the drive?
<ogra> bhale, oh, thats really sad, i was hoping to see you there ...
<bhale> :( sorry
<bhale> i used my vacation on guadec
<bhale> more fun i think
<LaserJock> ajmitch: 3 hrs
<ogra> yeah, indeed
<LaserJock> how long is guadec? 1 week?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's short, I thought it'd be longer
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, we drove 2 hrs last night to my grandpa's house
<ajmitch> right
<ryanakca> is this normal? "x11-common conflicts with xearth ( <= 1.1-10.2)"
<ryanakca> do all games in main, universe or multiverse have to be installed to /usr/games ? and would it be a bug if they aren't?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :D
<plugwash> [22:38]  <ryanakca> is this normal? "x11-common conflicts with xearth ( <= 1.1-10.2)" <-- i think that has to do with the fact that /usr/X11R6 is now symlinked back to /usr, so older versions of everything for X have to be removed to allow that change to succeed
* ryanakca is confused... but I'll take that as a 'yes'?
<crimsun> we shouldn't be installing stuff into /usr/X11R6/foo if that's what's being asked
<crimsun> common culprit is installing into /usr/X11R6/bin, which will fubar the upgrade
<theCore> is possible to run a feisty installation in chroot?
<bhale> yes of course
<theCore> and start Gnome with xnest?
<bhale> yes.
<theCore> cool
<theCore> I need to do that
<bhale> use xephyr not xnest
<bhale> it supports xfixes, randr, nice things like this
<bhale> fullscreen
<theCore> bhale, thanks for the tip
<theCore> so I run debootstrap to create the feisty install, then chroot it, but how do I launch X?
<theCore> like a normal installation?
<bhale> launch xephr in the main host
<bhale> in chroot
<bhale> export DISPLAY="127.0.0.1:1"
<bhale> gnome-session &
<theCore> ok, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-05
<plugwash> theCore btw the only difference between edgy and feisty so far is a new build toolchain
<theCore> plugwash, I just want to be prepared for feisty development
<theCore> plugwash, I been too slow to get going with edgy
<theCore> how GNOME packaging and testing is done, by the way?
<bhale> by Sebuild
<theCore> I know it's all handled by the core-devs, but I would like to learn about it
<bhale> dholbach and seb128 in #ubuntu-desktop
<bhale> who are currently traveling
<theCore> bhale, does sebuild is like jhbuild?
<phanatic> theCore: imho Sebuild is just seb128's other nickname
<theCore> oh, ok :D
<rmjb> hey room, I saw the progress made on the sru for motu, great work
<rmjb> I already assigned my sru to the new team and they already responded... so I'd say it's working fine
<lfittl> ajmitch: ping
<ajmitch> lfittl: yes?
<theCore> I got some problems setting up the chroot installation
<theCore> like I need to have the locals set correctly
<theCore> is there a good howto for doing the debootstrap process?
<theCore> because right now, the only documentation I have is the manpage
<joejaxx> theCore: you have to export the locale variable
<theCore> joejaxx, only that?
<theCore> chroot /feisty-root /bin/bash LC_ALL="en" LANGUAGE="en"
<theCore> ?
<joejaxx> when you are in chroot
<joejaxx> export LC_ALL=C
<theCore> oh, ok
<joejaxx> make sure it is LC_ALL=C
<theCore> should I use the --variant=buildd option for debootstrap?
<joejaxx> do you need it to be a build environment?
<theCore> I would like to use for building packages, and for testing
<theCore> along pbuilder
<LaserJock> theCore: did you read the chroot stuff in the packaging guide
<theCore> LaserJock, nope
<LaserJock> theCore: also you can do pbuilder login to get a temporary chroot
<theCore> LaserJock, maybe I should :)
<joejaxx> ah LaserJock is here
<joejaxx> :)
<theCore> --variant=buildd enable the build daemon?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it just installs more packages
<LaserJock> build-essential perhaps
<LaserJock> can't remember exactly
<theCore> LaserJock, ah, there is the howto I wanted
<theCore> right under my nose
<theCore> thanks LaserJock
<ezsquirt> in bash, how do you 'capture' return value from a command in a var without the script quitting when its launched with -e ?
<theCore> ezsquirt, I am not sure what you mean, but I think you could do that with $?
<ezsquirt> won't work since $? value will always be 0
<ezsquirt> because of the -e option that makes the script quits on any errors
<theCore> ezsquirt, can I see your script?
<theCore> LaserJock, I found an error in the Packaging Guide
<theCore> LaserJock, In the chroot section, "sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /var/chroot/etc/apt/" is useless because you overwrite it with the next commands
<theCore> overwrite sources.list*
<LaserJock> overwrite?
<theCore> LaserJock, with echo "deb     http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy main restricted \
<theCore> 	universe multiverse" > /etc/apt/sources.list
<LaserJock> hmm
<theCore> and copying the sources.list from the base system is a bad idea, IMHO
<LaserJock> theCore: well, I think that was around before somebody added the next lines
<theCore> LaserJock, do you know what "sudo sed 's/\([^:] *\):[^:] *:/\1:*:/' /etc/shadow | sudo tee /var/chroot/etc/shadow" does
<theCore> ?
<LaserJock> well, that's to get the shadow file so you can run sudo inside the chroot
<LaserJock> and have your ~/ etc
<theCore> but does that copy the users from the base system?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> well, I mean the shadow file
<LaserJock> you also need the group file
<theCore> well, I don't really want the mysql user or the apache user in my chroot
<LaserJock> doesn't really matter, but yeah
<LaserJock> just remove them
<theCore> LaserJock, think sudo chroot /var/chroot/ should specify /bin/bash
<theCore> I think*
<theCore> just in case, the user uses another shell by default
<LaserJock> send patches :-)
<theCore> LaserJock, okay :)
<LaserJock> alrighty
<LaserJock> I'm off to Mt. View I think
<pygi> bye
<awbassett> question... so, openafs 1.4.1 is broken in edgy and won't build kernel modules. The problem I've been running into is fixed in 1.4.2. If I compile the new packages, is there any way they could make it into edgy, or is that not how things work?
<awbassett> apparently a lot of people in #openafs are running into the same issue
<pygi> awbassett: perhaps -updates
<awbassett> I'm going to speak with the upstream (debian) maintainer
<crimsun> awbassett: the SRU team tends to prefer backported patches instead of wholescale new upstream versions
<awbassett> yeah, that's why i asked about the upgrade
<awbassett> i can speak with my local afs admin to see if the fixes can be patched back
<crimsun> awbassett: please file a bug against the source package using Malone and proceed with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/SRU
<crimsun> (we're largely following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates )
<awbassett> heh my openafs bugs dont get looked at too often
<awbassett> and i have generally been trying to close other ones lately that are outdated
<crimsun> I have a meeting now, but I'll look in a couple hours if you give me references. Please include all relevant information so we don't have to play e-mail/bug tag.
<awbassett> thanks. I will post my m-a build error log
<KriS83> Hi. I've found out that there has been a kernel patch commited for an issue with my soundcard. How/where could I access the most recent development Kernel version of the Ubuntu Kernel developers incl. the patches? If there's a daily build I would also be interessted, if not, the source incl. patches would be nice.
<KriS83> or would this be the wrong channel to ask? Sorry if it is.
<awbassett> You're probably going to have the patch the kernel yourself
<awbassett> and maintain it on your machine
<DarkMageZ> KriS83, i believe #ubuntu-kernel might be a better place for this
<KriS83> DarkMageZ, ahh missed that channel. Thank you
<KriS83> awbassett, I would if I knew where or how I could get hold of all patch sets :)
<DarkMageZ> KriS83, tho. it would probably be better to file a bug asking the kernel dev's to add the patch :)
<KriS83> But I'll give it a try in #ubuntu-kernel
<KriS83> Well it has been added by crimsun
<KriS83> just no package including it yet
<KriS83> It was added by crimsun on Oct 24th
<DarkMageZ> oh, don't bug the kernel people then :P
<bhale> it will be available in feisty when its open for general use
<KriS83> hmm
<DarkMageZ> tho, on that bug, you should request the patch to be backported to edgy/dapper
<bhale> we dont backport kernel patches
<KriS83> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2006-October/001155.html
<KriS83> Thats the one I'm looking for
<KriS83> bhale, so it will def. be my thing to do? This patch will never be moved to edgy then? Or might it if I file a Bug/Request for it?
<bhale> i have never heard of kernel backports
<bhale> and it seems an unwise thing to do, to me
<KriS83> k
<ash211> there is a section for kernel backports at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<joejaxx> hello everyone
<joejaxx> :D
<TheMuso> Hey joejaxx.
<joejaxx> how are you?
<TheMuso> Very well thanks.
<TheMuso> Are most people there yet?
<joejaxx> that is good
<millk> hi
<lastnode> imbrandon, ping
<crimsun> I've attached an SRU debdiff to bug 69455.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 69455 in oprofile "bashism in oprofile's opcontrol script prevents user from setting any events" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69455
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<Hobbsee> hey all
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu :)
<crimsun> that gaff in -devel just doesn't get it.
<jsgotangco> heh
<pygi> crimsun: indeed ^_^
<pygi> o. he figured I'm a little baby
<pygi> wow, I feel proud now :)
<Czubek> Hi all.
<Czubek> I'm student of Physics and I'm wonder what software can I recommend to my friends from studies to promote ubuntu among them.
<Czubek> There is maxima, a piece of symbolic calculation software that is great.
<luisbg> Czubek, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Science
<luisbg> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/science/
<Czubek> Ok, i got it.
<Czubek> So motu/science is deciding which program can be included to universe repository?
<luisbg> Czubek, no... ubuntu science maintains the packages of the science section of ubuntu
<luisbg> new packages are always welcomed if they have appropiate licenses
<Czubek> Hmm... So if i found somewhere program which is usable for physics and it has a free-software like licence i should inform who?
<Hobbsee> Czubek: laserjock
<Czubek> Ok, I will remember that.
<luisbg> Czubek, which program?
<Czubek> luisbg: at the moment none, but if i found one i will inform laserjock.
<luisbg> Czubek, oops sorry, didn't read the "if" you said
<Czubek> ;)
<jikanter> Czubeck, have you tried paw?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bmonty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> not many people on right now
<bddebian> Yeah, those rotten bastards are all in Mt. View ;-)
<jsgotangco> bwhaha
<bmonty> they are all jet-lagged from the red eye flights they took in yesterday...how much fun can that be?
<sivang> hey bmonty, bddebian
<bmonty> hi sivang
<sivang> "oh... How I wish I was there now..."
<sivang> ;-)
<bddebian> Heya sivang
<jsgotangco> yeah today might be sucky but its sunday there no?
<bddebian> Yep
<bddebian> 6:45am yet in fact :-)
<bmonty> can you guys help me with some feedback on a GUI I'm working on?
<bmonty> for this spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DynamicMirrorDecisions
<pygi> bmonty, if you wait some time, then yes
<pygi> and this is not the channel for UI :P
<bmonty> a picture of the prototype is here: http://www.montynet.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=648
<pygi> UI not good usability wise
<bmonty> right, I'm looking for suggestions for improvement
<pygi> bmonty, can you mail me about the issue, then I'll respond as soon as I can?
<pygi> I'm hecticly busy
<bmonty> I don't have a specific issue, other than I don't like how it currently works and I'm looking for comments on how to make it better
<bmonty> when you get a chance could you please email your comments to me at bmontgom@montynet.org?
<pygi> bmonty, well, I'm telling you just to  mail me so I have a sign somewhere that I have to comment on the UI  :P
<pygi> I cant remember everything from IRC :P
<ajmitch> morning people
<bmonty> ajmitch: how is California?
<ajmitch> from the little I've seen of it, i'\t's ok
<ajmitch> ssh is a bit lagged..
<bmonty> well I hope you enjoy the land of fruits and nuts :)
<ajmitch> heh I will :)
<imbrandon> ahhh internet
<joejaxx> imbrandon: lol
<imbrandon> joejaxx: shhh marks talking :)
<joejaxx> :)
<chantra> hi there
<chantra> mldonkey-server got a bug see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mldonkey/+bug/66023
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66023 in mldonkey "mldonkey-server does not startup at boot time, eventhough I selected this at installation time." [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<chantra> I provided a patch on launchpad, but checking at packages.debian.org, debian unstable got a new release (2.8.1-2) which correct the bug
<chantra> how can I get it to be sync in ubuntu ?
<bhale> are tehre ubuntu changes?
<chantra> nope, last release was only a sync
<bhale> so it would be synced automatically shortly
<chantra> okie, nothing to do then?
<chantra> last debian changelog is from Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:29:32 +0000
<minghua> chantra: adding a note in the bug report saying a sync from debian fixes the bug would be good
<chantra> minghua: okie dokie
<chantra> but it is not sync-ed yet :)
<minghua> chantra: yes, I know, s/fixes/would fix/ :-)
<chantra> :p
<minghua> chantra: the idea is that people know that they only need to wait for the sync
<bmonty> is the process for ubuntu sponsors still the same?  i.e. I check the request and ack it if everything looks ok?
<chantra> minghua: yep done
<chantra> minghua: someone added a bug watches
<chantra> shall those bug watched only related to the current bug?
<chantra> cause there is some related bugs :p
<chantra> so I wonder if i should add them
<vil> dholbach: hello, doko told me that you could help me becoming a MOTU.
<vil> dholbach: can we talk about it for a while?
<minghua> chantra: thanks
<chantra> minghua: ? what for :)
<minghua> chantra: my understanding is that bug watches should only be used for identical issues
<chantra> adding debian bug url
<chantra> minghua: okie dok
<minghua> chantra: for adding comments on the bug :-)
<chantra> minghua: no bother :)
<chantra> actually, I linked to debian changelog, therefore, all known debian bug will be there :)
<minghua> chantra: if there are related debian bugs, maybe mention them in the bug report is good, but IMO shouldn't add a bug watch
<chantra> okie dokie
<minghua> chantra: that sounds good
<dholbach> vil: I'm currently in a meeting
<dholbach> vil: you can just ask in here and drop me a mail - would that work for you?
<pygi> hey dholbach :)
<dholbach> hoi pygi
<pygi> how is you today? :)
<vil> dholbach: ok, I will send you a mail about my current interests in Ubuntu.
<pygi> any new telepathic powers? :)
<dholbach> vil: that's really cool - thanks a lot for that.
<dholbach> pygi: too tired for that still :-)
<pygi> dholbach, right :P
<chantra> guys, how much space pbuilder might need to host debian testing/unstable + ubuntu feisty?
<chantra> so that is 3 distro
<chantra> do you belive 5 Gig will be enough?
<geser> each base.tar.gz should be about 100 MB
<geser> plus the apt cache
<minghua> pbuilder is small
<minghua> the large part is the local mirror :-)
<chantra> :)
<chantra> I will need to buid graphical packages
<chantra> so I guess I will get load of dependencies
<chantra> my current system uses 4G
<chantra> should I consider that each pbuilder distro might use the same?
<chantra> let say 3G without /var
* Mez -> food
* chantra -> smoke :s
<chantra> :)
<minghua> chantra: make sure you separate your Debian APTCACHE directory and the Ubuntu one
<minghua> chantra: testing and unstable can use the same APTCACHE though
<minghua> chantra: also you can reuse your apt cache of the local system
<minghua> chantra: (and you can avoid all these if you have a fast internet connection)
<chantra> minghua: i'm in ireland now, and bloody hell, adsl does not mean unlimited
<chantra> if you go over 40G, you might get overcharged :s
<chantra> that is not good to try out linux distros ISOs :s
<minghua> no, ADSL is far from "fast internet connection"
<chantra> :)
<chantra> I should actually make a ubuntu repo cache so I don't download packages twice :)
<lophyte> ADSL isn't a fast internet connection? then what is? :P
<bmonty> chantra: I just got multiple distros pbuilder working...if you run in to problems I'll try to help
<chantra> cheers bmonty
<chantra> might try to set up a repository cache on my router first :)
<bmonty> luckily I don't have a DL cap on my connection
<chantra> bmonty: :)
<chantra> this is a pain, tell you
<luisbg> hello all! how is the summit?
<ajmitch> going well
<pygi> ajmitch, what BOFs are right now?
<ajmitch> currently in the edubuntu-network-auth-server BOF
<ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/uds-mtv/2006-11-05/
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<Adri2000> Seveas: ping
<Seveas> Adri2000, -ENOTIME, I'm at UDS
<Adri2000> just a quick question, you mad a package for mirage, will you send it on REVU to make it go in universe? (because I wanted to package it when I saw you already did it)
<Adri2000> s/mad/made/
<Seveas> Adri2000, for feity, imbrandon will upload it to ubuntu
<Adri2000> ok :)
* Mez -> work
<TheMuso> Hey Fujitsu.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: You following along with the summit schedule?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Not at the moment, as I've got a maths exam in 3 hours.
<TheMuso> Ah right.
<TheMuso> Good luck.
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<Fujitsu> Then a physics exam on Wednesday, and I'm done for the year :)
<TheMuso> Cool.
<TheMuso> Got any more years left?
<Fujitsu> One more.
<TheMuso> Right.
<luisbg> TheMuso, are YOU following the summit schedule?
<TheMuso> luisbg: Yeah. THeres nothing today that really interests me.
<TheMuso> Trouble is, by the time I start my day, the morning session is just about over.
<TheMuso> Currently everybody is at lunch, so its about 13:20 at MTV, and its 8:20 where I am.
<sladen> and 21:20 where I am
<Adri2000> 22:20 here :p
<luisbg> TheMuso, where can you see the schedule?
<TheMuso> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/uds-mtv/
<luisbg> TheMuso, nice
<luisbg> TheMuso, is there something interesting tomorrow?
<Burgundavia> luisbg: new schudule is not posted until today is done
<luisbg> it would be cool to be able to have the summit videostreamed
<luisbg> Burgundavia, ok
<luisbg> Burgundavia, until when does the summit last?
<Burgundavia> firday
<luisbg> ok thanks
<chantra> hi , I was wondering, when using pbuilder, let say I create a .deb for feisty under edgy using pbuilder
<chantra> how can you try out the deb ?
<chantra> can you install it from inside the pbuilder and then try to execute it?
<LaserJock> hi Amaranth
<Amaranth> hi :P
<LaserJock> Amaranth: what's up?
<Amaranth> I have never used the software we're talking about ;)
<LaserJock> I have it installed
<LaserJock> but that's about it
<Amaranth> yeah
<LaserJock> you have to have an LTSP server to do anything with it
<luisbg> ltsp? cool system to recycle machines
<joejaxx> the ltsp meeting is going on now?
<ajmitch> daniel!
<joejaxx> ajmitch: which meeting are you in?
<ajmitch> joejaxx: sitting across the room from you
<joejaxx> lol
* LaserJock looks around
* joejaxx blinds LaserJock with the Google badge
<LaserJock> nooooo
<TheMuso> Don't make me feel any more sad than I already am.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: this sucks
<LaserJock> TheMuso: it's totally aweful
<TheMuso> LaserJock: What does?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: not nearly as good as Paris
<TheMuso> Oh?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: just trying to make you feel better ;-)
<TheMuso> For a second I thought you were telling the truth. :)
<LaserJock> Google rocks
<TheMuso> But I knew that wasn't true.
<TheMuso> Well at least I am comforted by practically no a11y specs being on the table, as far as I know anyway in terms of prioritization.
<pygi> LaserJock, I should have just skipped my exams;)
<lotusleaf> Currently, ClamAV in Edgy is at version 0.88.4, while the current version out is 0.88.6. It's simple for me to build for myself, but considering what I've read about the security fix for 0.88.5, will an update be available for this anytime soon in the repos? If this is the wrong place to ask, I apologise, jdong doesn't seem to be online atm.
<LaserJock> pygi: ah, well it's fun, but school is very important
<theCore> LaserJock, having fun?
<theCore> :)
<LaserJock> theCore: pretty much
<pygi> LaserJock, I'll fail anyway :P
<LaserJock> pygi: you better not
<LaserJock> theCore: pretty hectic
<pygi> LaserJock, heh, one thing to say, one to do :)
<Amaranth> this google thing is shiny
<theCore> LaserJock,  have you seen my patch?
<LaserJock> theCore: well, I did, but I didn't read it in depth
<theCore> LaserJock, there's really nothing fancy in it
<Fujitsu> Do you have to have a SIP account even to listen in?
<bmonty> Fujitsu: yes
<joejaxx> ajmitch: are you on gobby?
<bmonty> Fujitsu: join #canonical-sysadmin and check the topic if you want to listen in
<ajmitch> joejaxx: not currently
<Fujitsu> Thanks bmonty.
<bmonty> np
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i am the only one doing the f-r-s gobby document right now :\
<ajmitch> joejaxx: it's being done on the wiki, I think
<ajmitch> just adjusting dates on there
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> ahh
<joejaxx> ok
<TheMuso> Was anybody here at the devfarm spec session? If so, howd it go?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I was there with imbrandon
<LaserJock> and elmo
<TheMuso> Right. I saw that on the schedule.
<TheMuso> Any progress?
<LaserJock> elmo shed some light on some things that canonical/LP is doing
<LaserJock> and gave some good advice
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Will I find anything of note in the spec itself yet?
<luisbg> I've got a deb package that it would be nice to get into feisty's universe when it is unfrozen
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-29
<persia> stani: Right.  First it gets fixed in development.  If it tests clean, and is critical, it gets moved to gutsy.  If it tests clean, and is critical, it gets moved to feisty.
<stani> proppy: 13 december is debian import freeze
<persia> proppy: It's automatic.  Nobody will forget.  Please don't file a sync bug for a new package now.
<proppy> oh ok It will get synced anyway
<proppy> I've forgot about this :)
<stani> persia: i don't understand why hardy is ubuntu1 and gutsy is ubuntu0.1. What would be feisty? Is not better feisty 0.1, gutsy 0.2 and hardy 1?
<stani> persia: other question: lintian returned this error
<persia> stani: If you're applying the same patch, there's no need for feisty users to download it again for gutsy.  It must be ubuntu1 for hardy, as it's a new patch.  It must be ubuntu0.1 for earlier releases to force the upgrade on hardy.
<stani> E: spe_0.8.2a+repack-1.1.0.7.04_source.changes: > >> bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty
<persia> The convention is because usually ubuntu1 also contains other changes to make the package better.  This is a somewhat special case.
<persia> stani: Lintian does that.  Don't worry about it.  Just check to make sure you've spelled it correctly.
<stani> ok, no need to change it then
<blueyed> Wouldn't be the version for feisty ubuntu0.0.1, if the version for gutsy becomes ubuntu0.1?
<stani> for gutsy I need to change it gutsy, or it still can be feisty? (no problem to change it, more theoretical question)
<gnomefreak> would make sense to keep them from overlapping
<gnomefreak> stani: target has to be the target version of ubuntu
<gnomefreak> for archive to accept it (or put it in right place)
<stani> ok, thanks gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> np
 * gnomefreak likes the easy questions ;)
<stani> haha, I hope to ask some more difficult questions later and hope gnomefreak is still around ;-)
<persia> stani: Also, you'll be wanting gutsy-proposed and feisty-proposed.  They need to go through testing first.  The process will be about a month: a couple weeks of testing for the gutsy release, and then a couple weeks of testing for the feisty release.  Don't forget to push hardy first.
<stani> yes but i have to wait for the hardy result before I can push gutsy
<gnomefreak> if you build them all once pushed you should beable to push next one and so on
<gnomefreak> but i could be mistaken and in that case i have been doing it wrong
<gnomefreak> but mine is security updates
<stani> gnomefreak: I don't have to wait to see if it is tested ok on hardy first?!
<gnomefreak> stani: its normally a good idea but your sponser would beable to answer that best (mine dont have to since they were security updates
<gnomefreak> iceape 1.1.5 is in gutsy and not pushed to hardy yet
<gnomefreak> oh thanks for reminding me i have to ping someone to push that
<persia> gnomefreak: Ah.  so you're the person with the odd version number :)
<persia> stani: You don't have to wait to prepare patches and build, but you do have to wait to get your updates into the archive.  How you schedule your time is your choice :)
<gnomefreak> :)
<zul> join #ubuntu-devel
<zul> doh..
<stani> can I ignore this lintian warning: W: spe source: changelog-should-mention-qa?
<persia> stani: You should only be getting that if either there isn't an Ubuntu maintainer listed, or your version numbering is odd.  Did you make the changes for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField ?
<stani> persia: thanks, I'll check
<slangasek> lifeless: hurrah
<stani> persia: when or how does one get an ubuntu.com email?
<persia> stani: It's a membership thing.  You likely don't want to use your own address: instead use the standard maintainer addresses listed in the Design section.
<proppy> http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/uscan.html = debian/ubuntu watch file howto ?
<persia> proppy: man uscan is possibly more useful
<proppy> persia: ok :)
<proppy> I was wondering how I can deal with sourceforge mirror, and how to test the watch file
<proppy> seems that the man will answers all these
<persia> proppy: There's a special hint for sourceforge (http;//sf.net/), and you can test with `uscan --report`
<stani> persia: I have the debdiff ready. What is next? Someone needs to review it?
<persia> stani: Right.  Attach the debdiff to the bug, and subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team to request review.
<proppy> persia: a package using a watch file in mind ?
<persia> proppy: Anything on http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/no_updated.html should be a good example.  These are all known to work :)
<proppy> persia: thanks
<stani> persia: done! And now?
<persia> stani: Be patient.  A sponsor will eventually comment on the bug, and may upload.
<proppy> persia: what if the upstream use zip ?
<proppy> persia: dans do not produce proper tarball ?
<stani> persia: thanks
<persia> proppy: http://sf,net/myspecialpony-(\d+).zip
<proppy> persia: it will work if the directory in not named after version ?
<persia> proppy: You are attempting to construct a regex that will match the available versions, and extract (via ()) the version string, to compare against the last changelog entry.
<proppy> persia: Ok, I see, so what is inside the zip doesn't matter :)
<persia> proppy: well, it matters, but uscan doesn't look
<proppy> :)
<proppy> persia: thanks :)
<proppy> I will do watch for mumble and unittest++ in a raw
<proppy> row
 * Fujitsu grumbles at the archive people never remembering to autosync from contrib/non-free.
<proppy> Newest version on remote site is 1.1.0, local version is 1.1.1
<proppy> mumble: remote site does not even have current version
<proppy> ahah
<proppy> there is a not released entry in the changelog nice :)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: It isn't not remembering, they don't.
<persia> Fujitsu: There've been a couple pokes: I'd expect it to catch up during UDS
<StevenK> I have pitti sitting behind me, when he autosyncs, he doesn't pull from contrib or non-free
<persia> StevenK: Isn't there a grab/sync script against contrib/non-free?  I thought it was semi-automated
<proppy> persia: is there a rules to add in control ?
<proppy> persia: or this is toolchain independent ?
<persia> proppy: For a watch file?  No.
<proppy> ok nice
<Fujitsu> StevenK: They normally do at some point in the cycle after people poke them...
 * persia trusts StevenK, as he appears to be under careful oversight
<Mez> gah, I hate packages that don't have a proper make install
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Yeah, which is the point.
<proppy> Newest version on remote site is 1.3, local version is 1.3.0
<proppy> oups
<proppy> let's dig the man to figure how to handle this kind of subtility :)
<proppy> youhou opts="uversionmangle=s/$/.0/" power !
<bddebian> Gah, damn dversionmangle :-(
<tonyyarusso> How do people make UI mockups?  I'd like to be able to give pictures along with my suggestions, but I have no idea how that's done.
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Probably with glade?
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: I've heard of that at least...
<ajmitch> or by getting some canvas & throwing paint at it
<ajmitch> at least that's what I suspect when I see some apps
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Haha.
 * Fujitsu has had a few Visio UI designs thrown at him.
<persia> tonyyarusso: the method doesn't really matter.  Use the tools you know.  If you want quick generated UI, glade is good.  If you use a pixel-editor, that works too.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I've seen people do mockups in MS Word
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Yeah, that too.
<RAOF> ajmitch: How can you even *do* that?
<bddebian> Straight HTML.. ;-)
<tonyyarusso> persia: I kind of know GIMP, but I'm looking for something meant for this purpose, where I can say things like "Insert button", rather than "insert box shape, then round the corners, give it a raised look, and put some centered text in it"
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: That's glade.
<Fujitsu> Glade isn't too terrible.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: cool
 * tonyyarusso checks it out
<persia> RAOF: Consider the magic of digital cameras combined with Jackson Pollack
<RAOF> Well, glade is *also* "once I've made this mockup, make it easy to hook code into it"
<ajmitch> RAOF: Word has a very, very basic drawing mode
<ajmitch> nothing better than receiving a 1MB word document via email, containing a simple line art graphic
 * RAOF blinks.
<Fujitsu> Only a megabyte?
<RAOF> You live and learn.  Yay crazy tools.
<ajmitch> thankfully
<persia> ajmitch: You're forgetting the power of OLE.  One can create the line art in word, export a BMP, import into powerpoint, and embed in word :)
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> such power
<Fujitsu> I like the 200MB ones that have a lot of B+W scanned TIFF.
<Fujitsu> And the people attempt to email them.
<Fujitsu> And complain when you refuse to put them unmodified onto the website.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: there are a few different glade packages (glade, glade-2, glade-3, glade-gnome,...) - which do I want?
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: glade-3 is probably your best bet, maybe with some of the plugins.
<ajmitch> glade-gnome-3 depends on glade-3
<persia> glade-gnome-3
<ajmitch> glade-3 is a rewrite of 2.x
<Fujitsu> glade-gnome-3 is the plugin with GNOME widgets, isn't it?
<ajmitch> most likely
<tonyyarusso> cool
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: there are plugins too?
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.
<persia> aptitude show anjuta
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Glade 3 is supposedly modular, so you can have plugins providing more widgets.
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: where would I find those to install
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Well, glade-gnome-3 is one... /me searches.
<ajmitch> there's pretty much just glade-gnome-3
<tonyyarusso> ah
<Fujitsu> That seems to be about it, yeah.
<ajmitch> you'll manage :)
<persia> Actually there is also python-wxglade.  Please don't use that.
<tonyyarusso> persia: how come?
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<persia> tonyyarusso: GNOME looks better without WX :)
<RAOF> Really?  wxglade?  Why???
<StevenK> s/GNOME/Ubuntu/
<RAOF> s/Ubuntu/*/
 * StevenK grins and high fives RAOF 
<persia> RAOF: Someone liked glade, and WX?  Annoying itch for them, annoying scratch for others.
<RAOF> But if they're using glade, why not just use GTK?
<RAOF> Eh, people are wierd.
<ajmitch> at one point, I did quite a bit with wxpython
<Fujitsu> Glade looks a little better than when I last used it... must have been more than 3 years ago.
<ajmitch> I've hated myself ever since
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Why?
<ajmitch> because it needed to work well on windows, and gtk+ really wasn't that stable on win32 back then
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Wx, working well and stable? I doubt it.
<ajmitch> better than gtk+ at the time
<ajmitch> it still sucked
<nenolod> my experience with WxWidgets has generally been unpleasant
<persia> nenolod: If you want true displeasure, you must experience wxWindows
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: okay, so I have a little text box put together in glade-3.  What do I do from here if my desired end result is a PNG I could post on my blog, say?
<ajmitch> tonyyarusso: take a screenshot?
<nenolod> oh i'm sure it's a fun experience
<RAOF> I'd just take a screencapture of the glade window
<nenolod> but i think i'll pass
<tonyyarusso> There isn't some sort of "export"?
<ajmitch> no
<tonyyarusso> That seems silly
<ajmitch> it's not meant for visual mockups, but an actual tool
<tonyyarusso> hmm
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Its primary purpose is generating code.
<RAOF> You could probably ask for a plugin :)
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: not anymore
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: I don't even see where that part is :S
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Oh, generating the XML, then.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: true - could be handy
<ajmitch> generating the XML, so that you don't have to fill your .py files full of gtk+ layout
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: As I said, I haven't used it in... quite a while.
<persia> it's not just python.  Glade supports C, Ada, Eiffel, lots of things...
<ajmitch> but python+glade=love
<Fujitsu> Python's GTK+ interface is remarkably nice.
<RAOF> Yes, it's lovely
<RAOF> I've just been playing around with it to write an xscreensaver-hack theme editor
<RAOF> It's remarkably easy to generate a UI.
<nenolod> pygtk is very nice
<nenolod> using it feels as natural as using the C binding
<Fujitsu> I wouldn't call the C binding natural-feeling.
<nenolod> i would, but that's because i'm nuts
<RAOF> Actually, the gtk lib itself looks nicely sane (although I've only ever used the pygtk).
<LaserJock> boy, did I ever just have a computer scare
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What happened?
<LaserJock> came back to my laptop and all the letters in firefox were little boxes
<LaserJock> and my hard drive was thrashing about
<LaserJock> I couldn't hardly do anything
<LaserJock> finally got into a console
<LaserJock> did a top and no real CPU usage but there were a bazillion artsd processes
<LaserJock> so I did a killall artsd
<LaserJock> and looked at top agian
<LaserJock> and there were a ton more
<LaserJock> and when I first trying to use my laptop the sensors applet said it couldn't get any ACPI info from my proc
<LaserJock> little scary to me
<proppy> zzz
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't worry, not logn after upgrading to the final release of gutsy, I found I couldn't login at all, or I had the desktop & panel stopping
<ajmitch> it was esd for me, rather than artsd :)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Hasn't esd been gone for a while?
<persia> Fujitsu: esound is still in hardy, just not (theoretically) enabled by default.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that's what I meant by gone.
<ajmitch> it certainly wasn't removed on my laptop though
<ajmitch> & it's still in main
<persia> Fujitsu: The issue is that the uprade path isn't completely working yet.  From what I've heard, Lennert is expecting the final touches in the next couple months, so we should be good for hardy.
<bddebian> So I got lordsawar uploaded to Debian.  It should autosync to Hardy right or do I need to poke someone?
<persia> bddebian: It'll autosync (we haven't reached DIF yet).  Are you chasing BoS as well?
<Fujitsu> !info lordsawar hardy
<ubotu> Package lordsawar does not exist in hardy
<LaserJock> darn, I keep forgetting that my laptop hardrive is hda not sda
<bddebian> persia: You mean boswars?
<persia> bddebian: I suppose I do.  Is strategus now completely useless, or are there other scenarios that are worthwhile?
<Fujitsu> persia: stratagus is dead upstream, and I thought removed.
<Fujitsu> (upstream all moved to boswars)
<persia> bddebian: There's also the bos package, which is probably best replaced by boswars.
<persia> Fujitsu: We don't remove things just because upstream stops caring.  They have to also be completely useless, and hard to maintain.
<Fujitsu> True.
 * persia notes that freecraft (strategus predecessor) was shipped through edgy
<bddebian> persia: Yes, as far as I understand it boswars replaces bos and strategus but I may be mistaken.  I've been trying to get clarification on it
<bddebian> boswars looks really nice
<persia> bddebian: I don't see any rdepends for stratagus, but I don't know if the default scenario is worth playing.  Have you tried?  It may be that a general move to boswars would be better.
<persia> I'm sure that boswars replaces bos
<bddebian> No I haven't tried the stratagus default
<persia> hmmm...  I wonder about the other scenarios on http://www.stratagus.org/games.shtml  Most seem to be based on stratagus 2.1 or dead though...
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1_: Hey there. Did you manage to find some people to tag along with tonight?
<superm1_> TheMuso_Boston, yeah i grabbed food and a beer with my roomate
<bddebian> Gah, how do I make 107 = 1.0.7 in uversionmangle?  s/(\d+)/$1.$2.$3/ or some such?
<superm1_> i'll grab one with you folks tomorrow or the day after :)
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1_: Who are you rooming with?
<crimsun_> TheMuso_Boston: he was sitting behind our table (I stole a chair from them)
<superm1_> TheMuso_Boston, jjesse
<TheMuso_Boston> crimsun_: oh
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1_: Oh I was just wondering.
<persia> bddebian: The same string as for nexuiz should do it, no?
<TheMuso_Boston> ah ok
<bddebian> persia: That just uses the first digit then period then anything after that doesn't it?
<bddebian> I.E., I don't want 1.07, I want 1.0.7
<persia> bddebian: For nexuiz you were dealing with nexuiz-23.zip vs. nexuiz-223.zip.  Is this different?
<bddebian> A little yeah
<persia> (remember 2.3 < 2.23)
<bddebian> In this case if I got 223, I would want 2.2.3
<persia> bddebian: Right.  Isn't that the same?
<bddebian> For nexuix 2.23 was OK
<bddebian> No
<persia> bddebian: No, because 2.23 > 2.3
<bddebian> Well for my purposes it would have been OK.  I'll try it
<bddebian> Oh frick, they are using 1.07 in Debian
<persia> bddebian: In that case, you want the same string as nexuiz, without the final 'g'
<bddebian> persia: I hate you. ;-)
 * persia hasn't done anything - really!
<bddebian> :-)
<nxvl> hi all
<bddebian> Hello nxvl
 * jdong kicks launchpad
<Fujitsu> jdong: What's it (not) doing now?
<jdong> Fujitsu: not loading in a reasonably timely fashion
<jdong> i.e. taking over 20 seconds to render a bug report
<Fujitsu> jdong: Heh, that's normal for Australia... are you using edge?
<jdong> yeah, I'm on edge
<Fujitsu> That seems fairly slow lately, maybe overloaded. Often times out.
<bddebian> Gnight folks, thanks again persia
<persia> good night bddebian
<jdong> seems to be responding okay currently...
<Ditiris> Is this the right place to ask a general quetsion if I am considering developing something on Linux?
<imbrandon> Ditiris, good place to start, if it ends up not being we'll point you somewhere else
<Ditiris> imbrandon, Thanks.  I want to be able to accept data from a real-time system (FPGA) either via PCI-Express transfers or UDP/TCP (probably TCP).  The PCI-Express will be for a desktop system, UDP/TCP for a laptop.  I want to buffer up this data in a ramdisk using DMA transfers, process it in real-time if possible, or subsample if not, and record it at the same time or shortly thereafter.  Any idea what I'm talking about?
<Ditiris> The problem is, I'm really a systems engineer and I have no idea where to start on the PC/programming side.
<imbrandon> personaly, no , no idea
<Ditiris> So, basically I'm going to get a burst of data at say 400 MB/s for a few seconds and I want to capture that data in RAM, if possible look at it/process it, then record it all.
<Ditiris> Record to the hard drive, I mean.
 * persia wonders why fopen() doesn't work
<imbrandon> yea i see what you mean but i have no idea how to go about that and ummm unless you have a framework in mind i have no idea where to send you either
 * ajmitch wonders who'll volunteer to merge proftpd
<imbrandon> ajmitch, you dont wanna do it ?
<ajmitch> impatient people want 1.3.1 already
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no, why would I?
<Ditiris> persia, directed at me?
<jdong> Ditiris: as persia suggested, you could start by trying to use standard userland API's and a tmpfs (effectively RAM disk) storage mountpoint...
<imbrandon> hehe no reason, just since you brought it up
<jdong> Ditiris: but as a realtime solution with the burst rates you specified, it might not be deterministic enough
<persia> Ditiris: only loosely - see jdong's expansion
<jdong> I don't know what mechanism you would need to use in that case, but I can bet it'll be in kernelspace
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that would require me to care enough anymore
<Ditiris> Right.  I basically need a stripped-down kernel with real-time extensions... I think.
<jdong> it's really out of the scope of our expertise -- we are distribution developers for desktops/servers, not embedded Linux / realtime-kernel specialists...
<imbrandon> anyone use mutt on a regular basis ?
<jdong> Ditiris: you'll probably have better luck hitting a kernel mailing list of some sort
 * ajmitch uses mutt
<jdong> imbrandon: I've been using it for a few weeks, just switched over from evolution :)
<jdong> probably useless newb as far as questions are concerned ;-)
<Ditiris> jdong, Thanks, I will try that.  In the mean time, can you recommend any books/programming guides/frameworks I can start to read up on so I can get a skeleton in place?
<imbrandon> same here i'm trying to convert from webmail to mutt, but i got the accounts all working on getting and recieving, but umm i got a dumb shortcut queston
<jdong> Ditiris: I'd recommend you grab one of the books on the 2.6 kernel...
<imbrandon> how to i access other folders ( i'm connceting to imap , gmail )
<jdong> Ditiris: Robert Love writes a good one, under the Novell name.
<Ditiris> jdong, Thanks, will do!
<jdong> imbrandon: c tab
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> c dosent seem to do anything
<imbrandon> one sec
<jdong> c on the index page should bring up Open Mailbox prompt at th ebottom
<imbrandon> i have these marco's
<imbrandon> macro index c "<change-folder>?<toggle-mailboxes>" "open a different folder"
<imbrandon> macro pager c "<change-folder>?<toggle-mailboxes>" "open a different folder"
<imbrandon> macro index C "<copy-message>?<toggle-mailboxes>" "copy a message to a mailbox"
<imbrandon> macro index M "<save-message>?<toggle-mailboxes>" "move a message to a mailbox"
<jdong> Ditiris: other than that, I have no idea where to steer you... hopefully you can get better bearings from a kernel developer list of sorts
<jdong> imbrandon: those sound good (though I have no idea why those macros are necessary; default functionality is similar...)
 * jdong points imbrandon at ajmitch then runs off :D
<imbrandon> ok one last question, know how to have the default sort so new mail os on top ?
<imbrandon> s/os/is
<imbrandon> gmail + imap is love though, i must say
<jdong> good question, I'm not sure if there is a sort flag for that....
<jdong> I haven't found the need for it; # of new messages is displayed at the bottom, and TAB on the index moves to next unseen
<imbrandon> yea i have 16k unseen though
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> O_O
<Ditiris> jdong, The Love book looks like a good place to start judging from the ToC.  Thanks a bunch.
<jdong> nver mind that method then!
<imbrandon> ---Mutt: =INBOX [Msgs:12674 Old:12646 139M]---(threads/date)
<Ditiris> Have a good evening everyone, time for pillow drool.
<jdong> Ditiris: there's also an O'Rielly book on embedded development, but IMO it's not nearly as relevant/good as the Love book
<imbrandon> hrm , it dosent seem to be downloading the other mailboxes / folders messages
 * imbrandon goes in search of a mutt primer
<ajmitch> imbrandon: then just skip to the bottom of the list of messages
<jdong> imbrandon: you need to set mailboxes statements in .muttrc to show more...
<imbrandon> key? pgdn take forever
<ajmitch> end
<jdong> imbrandon: END?
<imbrandon> ahh lol
<nxvl> i would like to do more merges, but i'm affraid to make one i'm not supos
<imbrandon> see i'm a newb
 * ajmitch larts imbrandon 
<jdong> :)
<nxvl> supposed to do
<ajmitch> nxvl: it's ok, most people won't bite
<nxvl> ajmitch: most is not everyone
<ajmitch> you always get some people in every group
<imbrandon> nxvl, just try to stick with people youve talked to in irc, but most are cool as long as they havebnnt started with it already
 * ajmitch doesn't bite much
<nxvl> my first merge i do a mentored one, and someone ask me why i do "someone" merge
<imbrandon> jdong, so i must list all new imap folers in muttrc that bites
<jdong> nxvl: it's good practice to try to poke the person in the changelog that seems to have touched it the most / last, to see if they have any better plans
<jdong> imbrandon: you only have to do that for mutt to monitor it for new mail
<jdong> imbrandon: c then tab should show all mailboxes
<nxvl> so i'm kind of afraid of picking one without knowing how the process works
<imbrandon> yea c shows all the folders now, i took out the marcos
<imbrandon> holdon lemme pastbin my muttrc , its small
<ajmitch> heh
 * ajmitch is going to walk home now, back later
<nxvl> jdong: so, pick one, talk with the last person that touch it, and if he/she say i can do it?
<jdong> nxvl: yeah
<jdong> nxvl: I'd be willing to bet money 99.99% of the people you poke will be THRILLED someone else wants to do the work for them!
<jdong> but once in a while there's someone with bigger/better plans for the package, etc
<imbrandon> jdong, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1454/   look right ?
<nxvl> jdong: thanks, i will start picking :D
<imbrandon> thats my WHOLE muttrc, i know its tiny compared to some
<jdong> imbrandon: looks good to me
<jdong> mine's only larger because of the mailboxes I subscribe to
<jdong> and also my spam filtering hotkeys
<imbrandon> so umm what were you talking about to make it get the new mail for the other folders
<imbrandon> because i have about 15 more folders on gmail
<jdong> mailboxes ! =INBOX =INBOX.jobslist =INBOX.Spamscreen
<jdong> statements like that
<imbrandon> ummm
 * imbrandon looks confused
<jdong> you can make em on many lines using multiple statements, but you list the mailboxes you want mutt to poll for unread message counts
<jdong> i.e. I'll get notifications like "New mail in =INBOX.jobslist"
<jdong> = is shortcut for the set folder= argument.
<jdong> this particular IMAP mailbox uses namespaces instead of folders, hence the weird dot notation
<nxvl> jdong: can i make the azureus's merge?
<Fujitsu> Oh dear.
<imbrandon> oht oh
<Fujitsu> nxvl: Probably inadvisable.
<jdong> nxvl: *smile* actually I've got dibs on that... :)
<Fujitsu> nxvl: You *really* don't want to touch that. The package bites. Hard.
<jdong> nxvl: the merge is trivial ,but its dependencies are not at this point
<jdong> still need to figure out where we're getting SWT 3.3 from in Hardy
<nxvl> Fujitsu: i have touched Apache2, and patch it, not simply merge
<nxvl> Fujitsu: THAT package bits
<imbrandon> ok jdong you still have me totaly lost, i dont care about message count, i just want to have ALL headers downloaded for all folders
<nxvl> jdong: i don't understand
<jdong> imbrandon: you can't use c to change to the filder you want?
<imbrandon> yes i can, but it shows as empty
<jdong> nxvl: Azureus 3.0.3.4 (Debian sid) requires SWT 3.3, Ubuntu has SWT 3.2
<jdong> imbrandon: hmm... I have no idea why that happens :(
<nxvl> oh ok
<jdong> nxvl: SWT, however, in Debian is provided by a simple swt-gtk source package. In Ubuntu, it's built as a part of the Eclipse source tree
<nxvl> so we are supposed to wait until swt it's merged?
<jdong> nxvl: so not even I have any idea what to do with it.... I need to poke our eclipse guy about it :)
<jdong> nxvl: but currently Azureus is my pet project and I'll take care of it :)
<nxvl> ok, to hard for a new contributor i think
<nixternal> while you are poking him, tell him to fix it so it doesn't crash all of the time :)
<jdong> nxvl: yeah, pick something more relaxing and fun :)
<jdong> nixternal: I've fixed that already :)
<jdong> nixternal: unless you're on AMD64.
<nixternal> well of course
<nixternal> err, I just lied
<nixternal> x86 :)
<nixternal> amd64 machines are busy building kde4 packages
<jdong> nixternal: x86, bug 57875 is your friend; I've got fixed Hardy package uploaded and gutsy-backports in testing, awaiting gutsy-updates green light :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus hangs or crashes showing splash screen at start" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57875
 * nixternal hugs jdong 
 * jdong hugs nixternal back
<nixternal> even though I am just using the one from eclipse.org right now
<nixternal> fidgiting with the severly broken Qt plugins
<jdong> nixternal: sounds painful :)
<nixternal> the plugins, yes, the one from eclipse.org, works wonderfully
<jdong> speaking of AMD64, anyone got an amd64 box set up for building and some spare time?
<nixternal> I have the C/C++ environment and the Java environment rocking along nicely compiling code that a chimp could write :)
<persia> jdong: For eclipse/swt, you might ping the debian side as well: half the team is also active in Ubuntu, and there is an effort to get the packages to work in both places.
<nixternal> jdong: what do you need?
<nixternal> Host '3LockBox', running Linux 2.6.22-14-generic - Cpu0: AMD Athlon 2200 MHz; Up: 11d+23:18; Users: 2; Load: 0.00; Free: [Mem: 10/941 Mio] [Swap: 863/863 Mio] [/: 11489/14084 Mio] [/boot: 93/122 Mio] [/home: 37476/41301 Mio] [/media/maxtor: 142410/150230 Mio]; Vpenis: 93.5 cm;
<persia> jdong: What do you need built?
<nixternal> will that work?
<jdong> I just want to poke across bug 152362
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152362 in icedtea-java7 "icedtea-java7-plugin always crashes firefox" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152362
<jdong> basically, Azureus will segfault running in amd64 Gutsy/Hardy because of that bug
<jdong> and apparently the fix is just a no-change rebuild in a pbuilder
<jdong> if that's the case, I'd like this SRU'ed ASAP :(
<nixternal> for one, icedtea-java7-plugin shouldn't be used like the sun-java one truthfully, but nobody wanted to listen
<nixternal> I will go ahead and rebuild it if that helps
<jdong> nixternal: this bug is not just a problem with the plugin... it is a problem with the entire JVM
<slangasek> jdong: can't SRU it without figuring out why it breaks on the machine where it's being built
<slangasek> insight welcome
<nixternal> I use the jvm all day long
<jdong> slangasek: oh, it's not just an ABI-changed-since-last-build problem?
<slangasek> no
<jdong> nixternal: can you grab the Hardy or bug 57875 azureus deb (1ubuntu1 or 1ubuntu2) and see if it crashes on your box?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus hangs or crashes showing splash screen at start" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57875
<jdong> slangasek: ok, then I misunderstood the bug's cause
<slangasek> "ABI-changed-since-last-build" normally would cause uninstallability anyway, assuming the ABI was something maintained with reasonable care
<persia> jdong: That's a little tricky.  pbuilder is rather different than the buildds (in many ways that are secret or arcane).
<jdong> slangasek: has a rebuild on a buildd been tried? or are you fairly certain it'll lead to the same bug?
<slangasek> I believe the package has built twice on the buildd with the same problem
<nixternal> jdong: so, you are trying to tell me it is time to dist-upgrade to Hardy? :)
<Fujitsu> Has somebody tried it in sbuild, to at least be slightly more like the buildds?
<jdong> nixternal: lol, no, the debs are binary-independent, you can use them on Gutsy
<nixternal> ya I know...but my desktop is already trying to run Hardy :)
<nixternal> ok, am I testing on x86 or amd64 for this one?
<jdong> persia: with regard to SWT, I've always assumed it's doko's pet... Our SWT 3.2 arises from the eclipse sources, while in Debian there's a separate swt-gtk source package...
 * RAOF has a amd64 gutsy schroot lying around.  What are we doing?
<jdong> persia: I've been unsure how to proceed to swt 3.3... syncing it down from debian defintiely works without any breakage (the package names are all different) but I don't know if doko has any eclipse related plans for it
<jdong> persia: I'd prefer to get the SWT 3.3 stuff into Hardy soon-ish, as Azureus 2.5.0.4 is a legacy branch that's about 3 months old (an eternity in Azureus time)
<persia> jdong: Hmm..  I think there is a plan to merge: If you're blocking on doko, you might try asking man-di
<jdong> persia: ok, I'll poke him next time he comes on
<persia> RAOF: recompiling iced-tea to replicate bug #152362
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152362 in icedtea-java7 "icedtea-java7-plugin always crashes firefox" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152362
<nxvl> on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayerplug-in/+bug/137993
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137993 in mplayerplug-in "mozilla-mplayer unnecessarily depends on gecko browsers" [Low,Confirmed]
<jdong> RAOF: long story short, rebuild in pbuilder = work, rebuild on buildd = crashy.
<nxvl> what should i do? remove the dependecy, didn't i?
<jdong> RAOF: azureus (hardy .deb) will segfault near loadup when icedtea is faulty. Really fast to test :)
<RAOF> Right.  It's not easy for me to test the packages right now, but I certainly can build them in sbuilder
<RAOF> Given the source is 70Mb, the "right now" might not be a problem :)
<jdong> :)
<nxvl> how do you says "the two of them"?
<nxvl> both?
<RAOF> Both of them
<nxvl> RAOF: thnx
<jdong> whose leg do you hump to make a build go faster :(
<RAOF> Generally the "please give me another 4gb of ram" leg, I think
<jdong> RAOF: queueing on the buildd's for 3 days for a 9-minute build is a bit irritating :)
<RAOF> Oh, _that_
<jdong> particularly a build that has pertinence to a high-priority 1.5 year old bug :)
<persia> jdong: What priority did you use in the changelog?
<RAOF> Ah, of *course* icedtea requires icedtea to build.
<jdong> persia: default... though IIRC I've been told it doesn't matter
<jdong> RAOF: you need the pre-chicken mutant organism?
<jdong> :D
<RAOF> jdong: Or they could have written the jvm in a non-java language.  That also works.
<persia> I thought it mattered, but that we were supposed to use "low" unless there was an extra-special reason.  Anyway, until sync is mostly up-to-date, buildd queues are exceedingly long.
<jdong> persia: I was told that soyuz ignores them...
<jdong> RAOF: lol
<RAOF> There's no particularly compelling reason to make it difficult to bootstrap your virtual machine :P
<jdong> RAOF: I'm sure writing the JVM in Java makes sense  from their standpoint
<jdong> RAOF: after all, Python 300000000000 is supposed to implement itself too
 * RAOF thought that was PyPy
<imbrandon> you think thats crazy, try getting gcc on a new arch
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> man-di: just the man we were talking about :)
<RAOF> imbrandon: There they've got an excuse, at least.
<jdong> RAOF: same thing, it might get released a millenium later or something :)
<nxvl> the jerarchy is depends -> reccomend -> suggest didn't it?
<RAOF> !info pypy hardy
<ubotu> Package pypy does not exist in hardy
<jdong> man-di: I was wondering what our plans of getting swt-gtk >=3.3 are on Hardy...
<persia> nxvl: Yes.  Depends when otherwise it breaks.  Recommends when most people should have both.  Suggests when it might be helpful.
<jdong> no, Ka narrow is not necessary on the XTR-690 platform
<jdong> err....
<nxvl> persia: i'm working on: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayerplug-in/+bug/137993
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137993 in mplayerplug-in "mozilla-mplayer unnecessarily depends on gecko browsers" [Low,Confirmed]
<nxvl> persia: so i think it must be downgrade to recommend and add xulrunner to recommended to
<nxvl> persia: didn't it?
<persia> nxvl: Check in #ubuntu-mozillateam (this might not be the best time of day).  I think I remember hearing something about handling the xulrunner cases, and you'll want to align with that plan.
<nxvl> persia: ok, thanks for the help
<RAOF> Why don't we have pypy in gutsy or hardy?
<RAOF> Oh, because if FTBFS.  Right
<persia> RAOF: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pypy says we do.
<persia> RAOF: It actually FTBFS for 5 different reasons :)  See the Debian bugs page.
<RAOF> !!!
<persia> Actually, 431197 and 442060 might be dupes: perhaps only 4 different ways.
 * tonyyarusso sighs
<tonyyarusso> I _still_ have broken consoles since installing Gutsy
<RAOF> At least icedtea doesn't require substantially more than 1Gb of ram to build.
<imbrandon> Sox are champs, bet everyone in Boston is happy tonight
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sox? who are they? :)
<imbrandon> boston baseball team, world series just ended and they won ( Red Sox )
<ajmitch> ah, the 'world' series ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> well there are a few token canidian teams
<imbrandon> err this mutt is pissing me off
<tonyyarusso> Somebody help we work around https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/129910 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129910 in linux-source-2.6.22 "tty[1-6] are active but display nothing in Gutsy" [Undecided,New]
<persia> tonyyarusso: Do you have /etc/event.d/tty*  You might want to peruse /usr/share/doc/upstart/*
<tonyyarusso> persia: I do have those files, yes.
<persia> tonyyarusso: start tty2 ought to do it then, no?
<tonyyarusso> persia: What I'd really like to know is what changed from Feisty to Gutsy and why, because I was able to use vga-0x318 in all previous releases with no problems.
<tonyyarusso> persia: No no - the tty is starting, but it's invisible.
<tonyyarusso> persia: I can actually log in and do an 'echo -e "\a"' successfully, but don't see what I'm typing.
<imbrandon> well the official workarround as you ask is to remove vga= from the parms
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: Yes, but that's an idiotic and useless answer (pardon my frustration), as it yields a completely unusable console.  80 columns is simply not enough for any actual work.
<pwnguin> what?
<tonyyarusso> I want to be told how to FIX the problem, not how to ignore it.
<imbrandon> right but you ask for a work arround
<imbrandon> not a fix :)
<imbrandon> and i get by on 80 col's every day, including right now
<imbrandon> but thats neither here nor there
<tonyyarusso> It worked in Hoary, Breezy, Dapper, Edgy, and Feisty, and now someone broke it.  I'd like to know why, and the kernel team is just ignoring everyone who asks, or giving them that answer and refusing to discuss it further.
<persia> tonyyarusso: I suspect you'll need to somehow detect whether the kernel is using a framebuffer or text interface for the console, and then load the appropriate modules, at least from what I can tell from the bug report.
<tonyyarusso> persia: I don't know how to do those things though.  I've tried some of the things suggested in comments, and ended up with a system that wouldn't even boot.
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso, i doubt there are ignoring it, there is alot going on with UDS this week and next with all hands and prior working on the release, it will be fixed asap i'm sure, the best thing to do now is contribute meaning full info to the bug and or work on a fix and in the meantime remove vga=
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: I guess.
<tonyyarusso> I'm disappointed with the QA on Gutsy so far.
<imbrandon> ummm we're all part of the Q&A , including yourself :)
<imbrandon> s/&//
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, but I don't have the skills to fix things - I just find them.
<persia> tonyyarusso: The comments in the bug are references to specific hardware configurations.  Rather than using them verbatim, you'd want to find out which modules your specific hardware is using, and load those.  Another alternative is to spawn two X sessions, one with a black background and a full-screen xterm (white on black) as the only running app.
<tonyyarusso> persia: what would that do?
<persia> tonyyarusso: Fake a console :)
<RAOF> At a nice high res, with nice hinted fonts :)
<_nand__> hi! Sorry I just got disconnected again... Did my question reached the channel?
<tonyyarusso> heh
<RAOF> _nand__: Not according to my lastlog
<_nand__> RAOF: ok thanks. Let me try again!
<_nand__> I have a packaging question concerning "private" shared libs : a app I'm packaging has some shared libs, but they will only be used by this application. Persia recommended me to put this in a private folder
<_nand__> but if I'm not wrong, it should be somewhere reachable by ldconfig
<_nand__>  so at the end, it may be the same if I put the libs in /usr/lib or somewhere else private, but in a path scanned by ldconfig
<RAOF> It shouldn't be in ldconfig's path.
<persia> _nand__: The aolserver4 package is an object lesson in how not to do things, but it does include ldconfig hinting to do just that.
<_nand__> The shared lib must be accesible to another package created by the same source package though.
<RAOF> Oh, I suppose the other option would be to have a per-application ldconfig hint.
<_nand__> persia: ok thanks i'll look at it
<persia> _nand__: Just remember, it's not an ideal package.  It can help with the hint, but don't try to learn too much from it (except as a counterexample)
<_nand__> persia: ok ;)
<man-di> jdong: first we need to fix some more eclipse issues
<man-di> jdong: in Debian we have the ant eclipse issue fixed
<man-di> jdong: and I have the junit4 issue fixed locally
<man-di> but I have some more pending fixes
<man-di> then Ubuntu need to merge eclipse
<man-di> and then we can eclipse to 3.3
<imbrandon> and gpl'd netbeans 6 :P heh
<man-di> imbrandon: I work with SUN people on packaging NetBeans for Debian
<imbrandon> cool
<man-di> they want to do it themself, dont know why
<man-di> its ridiculous to teach them packaging
<imbrandon> hey as long as they can keep it up why not hehe
<man-di> imbrandon: they dont
<man-di> for the older packages I always need to ping them when bug reports arrive
<imbrandon> ahh someone will just do it before them then if they have to learn
<pwnguin> im sure they want to have people know this stuff in house for opensolaris
 * persia remembers the netbeans debian/copyright.  Quite a read :)
<imbrandon> pwnguin, well gnusolaris is just volenters like me ( i package a few things there ) and opensolaris is just the kernel not a distro
<imbrandon> persia, they just dual licensed it under gpl
<pwnguin> well, i was thinking of indiana, but i guess netbeans predates that
<imbrandon> indiana isnt a distro either, its to make gnusolaris more mainstream
<persia> imbrandon: Take a look at the current package.  It wasn't all CDDL, and it wasn't all Sun-origin.  The Netbeans code might be GPL, but the package is interesting...
<pwnguin> then i guess ian failed to make it clear what indiana was =/
<imbrandon> hehe yes, the solaris camp is very confusing with names
<imbrandon> nevada is the in house opensolaris distro, gnusolris is ubunut like ( even uses our artwork )
<man-di> imbrandon: do you still needed a closed source solaris to install opensolaris?
<imbrandon> man-di, nope
<pwnguin> i have an open solaris dvd on my shelf
<man-di> wow, they fixed that
<pwnguin> it appeared to be open source solaris
<pwnguin> in fact, it appeared to be eight open source solaris;s
<imbrandon> pwnguin, probably nevada
<pwnguin> imbrandon: nevada, nevada 64 bit, nexenta, belenix schillix
<imbrandon> ahhh willl "OpenSolaris" is like "Linux" its just the kernel , there are many many distros, the most linux like of the bunch is gnusolaris
<imbrandon> nexenta == gnusolaris
<imbrandon> nevada == OpenSource Solaris, not OpenSolaris
<pwnguin> well, solaris just dosnt meet my needs
<pwnguin> wireless sound and video
<pwnguin> if you're a data center, hats off
 * tonyyarusso wonders what wireless sound is
<pwnguin> im sure you'll love zfs
 * pwnguin wonders what a comma is
<pwnguin> tonyyarusso: bluetooth audio?
<tonyyarusso> pwnguin: that works
<imbrandon> i like to play with gnussolaris just because i can use all my ubuntu experince with it, its just a ubuntu derivitive
<imbrandon> but thats all
<pwnguin> i just think its wierd that sun went to the lengths it did to support the creation of multiple distributions
<tonyyarusso> Are there any Ubuntu derivatives using Herd yet?
<imbrandon> not afaik
<tonyyarusso> hurd, rather
<ajmitch> I hope not
<imbrandon> pwnguin, sure why not, all they really needed help with was the kernel ;)
<pwnguin> what?
<imbrandon> you get as many people as possible using the solaris kernel and you get lots of fixes
<imbrandon> who cares if the "distros" live or die in their eyes
<pwnguin> a) ive heard plenty of people say suns userspace sucks b) they already have a referene implementation -- they might as well have just accepted fixes from the public for that...
<jack> whats the command for the advanced partitioner, the default one fails to do what i tell it
<imbrandon> pwnguin, sure but most pure sun boxes still have gnu userspace on them even before this
<imbrandon> jack, cfdisk ?
<pwnguin> dd ;)
<jack> apt-get install lvm2
<persia> imbrandon: Isn't there also a school of Solaris users using part of the BSD userspace?
<imbrandon> persia, yea, bsd and solaris have a long history
<pwnguin> then again, the various ubuntu flavors seem a bit like open solaris's approach
<imbrandon> i like nextena's approach though ( indiana ) , take a snapshot of ubuntu ( much as we do with debian ) and slap a sun kernel on it
<pwnguin> you say that like it's easy and workable
<imbrandon> makes a very interesting install, special since you can run sun binarys too
<pwnguin> does opensolaris have a linux binary compatibility layer?
<imbrandon> not afaik, it needs to be recompiled
 * pwnguin is scared to think of the device specific named programs, the linux only syscalls
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> pwnguin, grab a nextena vmware image, mess with it 5 minutes, its kinda novel
<pwnguin> i have a dvd
<pwnguin> with nexenta
<pwnguin> and no vmware
<tonyyarusso> me too
<imbrandon> not that i would ever switch, still too buggy for day to day use imho
<imbrandon> but its kinda cool idea
<imbrandon> hrm , lemme find something
<pwnguin> sure; it'd be interesting to attempt to at least have packages depend on kernel versions or POSIX
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/solaris.png
<imbrandon> check that, its when i had the VM running a while back
<imbrandon> woop, turn the torrent off, might load faster now
<imbrandon> lol
<tonyyarusso> Nexenta uses KDE?
<imbrandon> turned*
<pwnguin> what?
<pwnguin> tonyyarusso: how did you infer this?
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso, no the kde desktop is mine, the nextena is in the vmware
<tonyyarusso> oh, doh
<tonyyarusso> pwnguin: nvm
<pwnguin> nvm indeed :P
<imbrandon> heh
<pwnguin> hmm when did irclogs.ubuntu.com get established?
<tonyyarusso> pretty recently I gather
<persia> pwnguin: About a month ago
<imbrandon> pwnguin, there are alot of new *.ubuntu.com domains in the last month
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: what else/
<tonyyarusso> ?
<imbrandon> screencasts, search ( not live yet ), ummm i few others i dont rember right off
<imbrandon> was a pita to keep adding them to ubuntuwire so i just added *.ubuntu.com :P heh
 * RAOF accidentally kills an hour of work, and decides it's time for some hacking.
<_nand__> hmm... the  only thing I found about loading a private shared lib is a reference to rpath...
<RAOF> That will also work, but may be considered evil.
<pwnguin> fg
<pwnguin> oops
<_nand__> RAOF: ah! What do you recommend then?
<RAOF> No, it's already forgrounded.
<RAOF> pwnguin: :P
<persia> _nand__: In the client app, you can also do something with LD_LIBRARY_PATH: I think a lot of the mozilla apps do that now.
<RAOF> _nand__: What persia said.  Miro has a tiny wrapper that sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH then calls the real binary, for example.
<_nand__> persia: that would mean creating a wrapper for each prog
<_nand__> hmm... is this approach ok?
<persia> _nand__: Right.  How many clients do you have?  I thought that you were only expecting the library to be used by clients in the same package.  If you have clients in other packages, I'd recommend splitting out the libraries into their own packages, with proper sonames, etc.
<_nand__> persia: I have two binary packages from one source package : one containing some shared libs and a daemon using these libs, and the other being two GUI clients using one of the shared libs
<_nand__> these libs being only for the program, they will not be used by others projects
<_nand__> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=420, if it may help
<persia> _nand__: Right.  So you add three wrapper scripts (or release a library package).  In general, it's best not to combine daemons and libraries, in part because of the delayed ldconfig call, and in part because people may want to run clients and daemons on different hosts.
<_nand__> persia: Yes, we discussed about it with upstream, but he prefers bundling the libs and daemon together, like the racoon package
<_nand__> persia: ok I'll use wrapper then
<_nand__> thanks for the infos
<pwnguin> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thinkfinger/ does the fact that this package has a page mean there's a source package in hardy?
<pwnguin> hmm
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: yeah
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: or will be soon
<imbrandon> should
<pwnguin> I'd like to compare it to my ppa and suggest a few patches, but im not sure where to grab the source =/
<imbrandon> if it wasent there before it will just be the version thats in sid now
<persia> pwnguin: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/t/thinkfinger/thinkfinger_0.3-2.dsc
<pwnguin> i know how to get the debian package
<pwnguin> thats what i based mine on
<pwnguin> i just want to make sure it's in hardy and building before i start proposing patches
<imbrandon> sure then i would say upload it ( and pass any fixes to debian too )
<pwnguin> the debian maintainer is rather... pedantic
<pwnguin> ive been keeping in touch
 * persia is confused.  It doesn't appear to be new, unapproved, approved, or done.
<pwnguin> did it get blacklisted or something?
<Hobbsee> persia: since when can you see unapproved?
<persia> Hobbsee: I can only see half-hour snapshots, but wouldn't expect to have the window be that tight.
<Hobbsee> oh, right, you're not looking on lp
 * Hobbsee wonders if that cronjob is even on
<persia> Hobbsee: It appears to be
<pwnguin> imbrandon: tried fluxbuntu?
<Hobbsee> dont know about that one, tbh
<imbrandon> not the 7.10 release
<pwnguin> ahmuck was moaning a bit so i tried it out (ive got plenty of cdrs with not much to do with em)
<pwnguin> turns out it doesn't even boot on my desktop
<imbrandon> heh
<pwnguin> i dont get why it isnt a universe package
<pwnguin> fluxbuntu-desktop
<imbrandon> bug joejaxx , he is _teh_man_ of fluxbuntu, and iirc because he finished it tooo late
<imbrandon> netx version of fluxbuntu and ubuntustudio are being built in the DC from what i've seen
<imbrandon> so it shoudent be a problem for hardy
<pwnguin> thats the impression i get, that fluxbuntu sorta put the cart before the horse in putting up a website before really hounding up devs
<imbrandon> its a small project pretty much run by one man
<imbrandon> its had a few other releases
<pwnguin> if you're one (sane) guy with a lot of ambition, to me the logical first step is to find help
<imbrandon> if i was that worried about installing and configuring it i would just install nUbuntu
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: i recently questioned one guy about why he did the opposite
<imbrandon> easier said that done arround here, most are pretty streched thin, and new blod takes time to teach before they are usefull and detracts you from the goal
<Hobbsee> said stuff to the effect about "how will yours be different from other distros?  why would we want to participate?"
<coNP[uni]> Good morning MOTUs!
<pwnguin> my guess is that in these kinds of cases, they want to do everything and understand it all, and wind up hoarding far more work than they can actually do =(
<imbrandon> nah joejaxx will happily accept help
<imbrandon> i was arround when he started fluxbuntu ( i had the same spec at the UDS )
<imbrandon> only called fubuntu
<imbrandon> LOL
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> well, at least the better name won out
 * persia doesn't understand the proliferation of derivatives: is it that hard to distribute a meta-package including the nifty bits?
<imbrandon> persia thats mostly what derivitives are, minus the cd build
<pwnguin> persia: ever tried installing just kubuntu with only a ubuntu CD
<persia> pwnguin: No, but I've never install kubuntu.  I have installed Ubuntu from a floppy disk.
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  Right.  CDs.  Now it all makes sense.
<pwnguin> right. you hand out a CD, and it installs -desktop for you
<pwnguin> alternatively one could choose a desktop during install time, but i think there's the live cd pressure to contend with as well
<tonyyarusso> pwnguin: I've thought about a DE choice for the DVD installer before
<pwnguin> did gutsy have an official dvd iso?
<warp10> Hi all!
<imbrandon> pwnguin, yes there are always dvd buildds
<pwnguin> i failed to notice this i think
<imbrandon> they are intentionaly semi hidden because they are no better than the cd iso, you owuld need to install from the dvd and add an additional 200MB of apps from the dvd 17X before it made it worth downloading the dvd
<imbrandon> but on the flip side if it was made more public everone would be like ,,, ooooh dvd == better, lets get that
<imbrandon> anyhow the dvd's are always on cdimage.ubuntu.com
 * persia wonders if making the DVDs .torrent only would help
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: it is nice if you're on dialup but have a friend on cable who can burn you the entire main repo.
<pwnguin> imbrandon is that friend
<imbrandon> now this is sexy,  almost as good as my XP theme for KDE
<imbrandon> http://images.howtoforge.com/images/mac4lin/Mac4Lin%20Documentation_html_m2ad3b0cf.jpg
<imbrandon> thats gnome BTW not OSX
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: okay, that's pretty cool....
<pwnguin> you wanna see awesome themes?
<imbrandon> i made my own XP kde theme, most couldent tell the diffrence from the real thing
<imbrandon> was kinda slick
<tonyyarusso> I tried that once too
<imbrandon> i should have released it
<tonyyarusso> didn't save it though
<imbrandon> i got EVERYTHING working perfect
<pwnguin>  http://people.cis.ksu.edu/~jld5445/Screenshot-10-27-2007.PNG
<tonyyarusso> Help > About in Firefox said "About Internet Explorer" in mine
<imbrandon> i had actualy internet explorer heh
<pwnguin> firefox says about firefox in actual XP :P
<imbrandon> and nero
<imbrandon> bah lemme show ya some theme love i got going now
<imbrandon> one sec
<pwnguin> lemme tell you, its a lot easier to theme kde / gnome than windows
<imbrandon> i dunno ifg i even have a screenshot app installed
<pwnguin> (in case you havent looked or noticed, my screenshot is actually winXP there)
<tonyyarusso> wait, what?
<tonyyarusso> how'd you do that?
<imbrandon> windowblinds ?
<pwnguin> nope
<pwnguin> step one, replace XP's uxtheme.dll with an "unlocked" version
<pwnguin> step two, drop in the theme
<pwnguin> http://fioressj.deviantart.com/art/Human-for-Windows-37743373
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> one sec
<imbrandon> hers my current desktop ( fluxbox ) NSFW http://picasaweb.google.com/holtsclawb/MISCScreenShots/photo#5126657146624955986
<imbrandon> here's*
<persia> Is that from Nell?
<imbrandon> Nell?
<persia> Apparently not :)
<persia> (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110638/)
<imbrandon> there is a Zoom on the top right for those not familiar with picasa web interface
<imbrandon> persia, ahh i dont think so , i got it off devianart a long time ago
<imbrandon> cant be sure though as i havent seen the movie, thought it was kinda like a debian logo myself :P
<persia> Anyone want an easy SRU?  There's a patch for bug #49508, fixed in hardy.  Someone just reported bug #158253, noting that sympa doesn't work at all without the patch.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 49508 in sympa "init script does not create requirred /var/run/sympa directory" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49508
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158253 in sympa "Sympa won't start : /var/run/sympa missing in tmpfs (dup-of: 49508)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158253
<persia> gnomefreak: I learned from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<gnomefreak> persia: ty ill look at it
<persia> gnomefreak: Did you remember to quilt push, quilt add, and quilt pop?  It feels a lot like using a VCS.
<gnomefreak> i didnt quilt add
<gnomefreak> hmmmmm
<persia> That's it.  The patch isn't properly registered.  You might be able to do the same thing by hand, but I'd trust quilt add.
<persia> Oh.  Right.  And quilt refresh :)
<pwnguin> hmm
<pwnguin> does anyone else's clock report being an hour behind?
<_ruben> gotta love DST ;)
<gnomefreak> pwnguin: try asking in #ubuntu but im betting your bios clock is an hour behind
<pwnguin> isnt thiis something i'd have noticed a year or more ago though?
<gnomefreak> not really could have happened on last bios run
<persia> Could be that it is a buggy BIOS and attempts to adjust for DST as it was defined at the time of manufacture...
<pwnguin> suck
<ion_> Just use ntp
<pwnguin> i do
<pwnguin> which is why i think its strange to blame the bios
<gnomefreak> pwnguin: bios sets OS clock not the other way around
<persia> Well, the OS can set the BIOS clock, but this never happens automatically.
<gnomefreak> persia: right
<gnomefreak> pwnguin: this just happened to the 2 windwos pcs in this house i think it has alot to do with DTS changing so much the last year or 2
<gnomefreak> remember it used to be mid oct
<gnomefreak> now its nov 4
<ion_> persia: It does.
<persia> ion_: Automatically?
<gnomefreak> ion_: shouldnt
<ion_> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 2007-10-03 09:54 /etc/rc0.d/K25hwclock.sh -> ../init.d/hwclock.sh
<pwnguin> it should. the OS can know more about what time it is than the BIOS
<gnomefreak> should in a perfect world but shouldnt as it i dont remember it ever doing it without input
<pwnguin> i vaguely recall reading that the OS would load the RTC on startup
<pwnguin> and save it on shutdown
<persia> pwnguin: No, as ion_ points out, load on startup and save on shutdown is current behaviour.
<pwnguin> No what?
<pwnguin> thats what i just said
<persia> Err..  For those used to the alternate negative answer convention, that could as well have been written "Yes, ..."
<gnomefreak> lol
<gnomefreak> its already almost 6
<azeem> slangasek: did you upload opensync already, and if so, which version and where to?
<pwnguin> at least i have excuse -- my clock is lying to me =(
<azeem> slangasek: fwiw, opensync switched to cmake in svn
<lidb> Hi, How can I recover my REVU account?
<s1024kb> Hello everyone. Good evening (17:56pm here in China).
<huats> morning everyone
<ion_> Time of day everyone.
<lidb>  Hi, How can I recover my REVU account?
<persia> lidb: Try to log in.  Enter the wrong password (I suggest "password").  Click the "recover" link that appears to the right of the new login entry.  Decrypt.
<lidb> persia,  I even can't find my account, and I am already a member the revu group of launchpad, what should I do now?
<persia> lidb: How long have you been registered as a contributor?
<lidb> one year also
<lidb> persia, about one year
<persia> lidb: Ah.  There was a security issue, and things were refreshed.  Log in using the email address you used on your most recent changelog.
<lidb> persia, still does not work, I have tried my email and my account in launchpad
<persia> lidb: What's your launchpad name?
<lidb> lidaobing
<lidb> persia, lidaobing
<persia> lidb: No need to repeat yourself.  Sometimes it takes a while to collect information for a response.
<Fujitsu> lidb: Have you uploaded anything to REVU since ... a couple of months back?
<Fujitsu> If not, you won't have an account.
<lidb> No, I haven't upload things in recent months
<s1024kb> Hello norsetto, my teacher.
<norsetto> s1024kb: Hi Selene, how is it?
<persia> Fujitsu: I thought there was an account recovery system: my account didn't go away.
<Fujitsu> persia: You're a MOTU.
<lidb> Fujitsu,  now I already in REVU group in launchpad, what should I do next?
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I thought the same rules were applied for U-U-C.
<Fujitsu> lidb: Upload a package to REVU.
<persia> lidb: Just upload something.
<Fujitsu> persia: No, as not all are active, and probably other reasons.
<lidb> thanks all, I'll try it.
<persia> Fujitsu: Makes sense.  Just different than I'd thought.  Thanks for the correction.
<s1024kb> Thank you for answering me... I have read the policy manual, the new maintainer's guide... and am downloading the make documents that you recomended.
<huats> norsetto: here you are my favorite pizza eater :-)
<norsetto> huats: hear who is talking, the onion eater, bleah
<huats> :-)
<huats> norsetto: yeah... onion rocks !!! especially on top of pizza
<s1024kb> norsetto: could you please tell me how to download all the tools? I saw many many packages on the web page but don't know how to do. Can i use the apt-get command on my terminal?
<huats> norsetto: how are you ?
<norsetto> huats: btw, you know where I eat the worst pizza of my life?
<huats> norsetto: toulouse ?
<norsetto> huats: congratulations!!! You are the lucky winnerof a giant onion !!!
 * huats is so happy with his price
<huats> norsetto: that is because you don't know the good places... if you ever come back here, I'll be glad to show you the greatest :-)
<s1024kb> norsetto: Pizza, i like it. I even have make it when i was doing a part-time job in Pizza Hut, at that time i was in college. :)
<norsetto> huats: I was with two spanish colleagues, which, for some reasons yet unbeknown to me, decided to eat pizza, in toulouse
<huats> :-)
<huats> what funny idea...
<huats> when I am in Roma, I dont' even think of eating french food...
<norsetto> huats: me neither :-)
<huats> ... it is also true that I can't think of eating something different than mozza di buffala
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> s1024kb: so, how is it with you? Making some progress I understand
<norsetto> huats: seems like you are back in good shape eh?
<huats> norsetto: let's say that I feel better... that is why I am at work
<norsetto> huats: bad idea, bad idea .....
<huats> I know
<huats> but I am not sure my boss agrees with us
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes... i guess that i will learn all the things soon, only need some more time...
<norsetto> huats: fire him
<huats> norsetto: I am reallly thinking of that
<norsetto> s1024kb: take it easy, as I said one step at the time, and it will all come together
<huats> norsetto: btw can you tell me why you put the conduit's bug as a wishlist ?
<norsetto> huats: which one is that?
<huats> (you know the HIG compliant stuff)
<s1024kb> norsetto: thank you. May i ask you the same question again? I want to download all the tools but don't know how to do...
<norsetto> huats: right, becuase its a wish .....
<huats> bug 154472
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 154472 in conduit "Conduit's menu item is not HIG-compliant" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154472
<huats> it is a wish right
<huats> but it is also something not correct...
<huats> and since there is a patch...
<norsetto> huats: yes, thats why its not invalid, or won't fix
<huats> otherwise it'll be won't fix ?
<huats> norsetto: because it is a too simple pb ?
<norsetto> huats: I don't think is a good idea to implement this change in ubuntu, its not something that its necessary, its a nice to have, and will obl;ige us to have a delta with debian everytime we merge
<lidb> Fujitsu, persia, it works, thanks.
<huats> norsetto: ok
<huats> norsetto: I understand your point
<persia> lidb: Good to hear.
<norsetto> huats: so, you did the right thing, found the fix, and forwarded it to debian and upstream
<huats> norsetto: ok ok
<Fujitsu> lidb: Great.
<norsetto> huats: if they don't act, we might do it ourselves, vbut lets give them some time, ok?
<huats> norsetto: of course
<huats> norsetto: I was just curious... remember I am french
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> s1024kb: to download the tools just use your preferred package manager
<s1024kb> norsetto: may i use apt-get in my terminal?
<norsetto> s1024kb: if you are on ubuntu, use synaptics, or apt-get, or aptitude
<norsetto> s1024kb: yes, of course you can, just remember that you need super user rights, so prefix it with sudo
<s1024kb> norsetto: i know. i saw a lot of packages on the web page, but don't know which one to download.
<norsetto> s1024kb: ok, which web page? In the packaging guide?
<s1024kb> norsetto: for example, the link you sent to me: http://dad.dunnewind.net/
<norsetto> s1024kb: ok, if you look there you will see its talking about a script, called grab-merge.sh?
<norsetto> s1024kb: you see, on the second row from the top?
<norsetto> s1024kb: if you click there you can download it to your disk and use it
<s1024kb> norsetto: Ah, yes, so i run this script and the tools will be downloaded and installed in my Ubuntu?
<norsetto> s1024kb: no, that script IS already the tool (one of the many we use)
<s1024kb> norsetto: ... how and when to use the script?
 * persia finds merges easier without grab-merge.sh
<norsetto> s1024kb: that script is used when you want to do merges
<norsetto> s1024kb: do you know what a merge is?
<s1024kb> norsetto: kind of understand, kind of not...
<gnomefreak> whatever you do use it in its own folder dont run it in ~/
<persia> gnomefreak: :)
 * gnomefreak learned my lesson
<Fujitsu> It does prompt nowadays, doesn't it?
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: not sure after i did that i listened to the warnings on the sites
<s1024kb> norsetto: in restricted and multiverse there are also a script with the same name. I guess that they are not the same, each one for different usage?
<norsetto> s1024kb: I never checked, but it should be the same one
<s1024kb> norsetto: they're used for merging all kinds of packages?
<s1024kb> norsetto: i will read them later carefully and see what the script is doing, haha.
<norsetto> s1024kb: yes, you just use it with the name of the package, like "./grab-merge.sh yappy" and it will download and install all necessary packages
<norsetto> s1024kb: remember that you need to set the excutable bit, with chmod (chmod +x grab-merge.sh)
 * gnomefreak needs to do a few merges to freshen up :(
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes, i know, i had just learned that...haha. And is there any other tools i must download?
<norsetto> s1024kb: I guess you already installed the build-essential package?
<s1024kb> norsetto: no. where and how i can get them?
<norsetto> s1024kb: since you know apt-get, with it, like this "sudo apt-get install build-essential"
<gnomefreak> apt-get install build-essential fakeroot
<StevenHarperUK> Hi im looking
 * gnomefreak always grabs fakeroot ;)
<norsetto> s1024kb: you also need devscripts
<StevenHarperUK> Hi I am looking for MOTU's to review my Package on REVU : I currently have 0 advocations : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=444
<gnomefreak> s1024kb: you may have to run sudo apt-get build-dep packagename
<s1024kb> norsetto: ok. so how to get the devscripts?
<gnomefreak> apt-get
<norsetto> s1024kb: well, you should know by now ... try to guess
 * geser builds inside a pbuilder so his working environment doesn't get polluted by -dev packages
<gnomefreak> i use chroot most of time
<gnomefreak> i havent set up hardy chroot so i build on my hardy install
<s1024kb> norsetto: ... maybe i will find the answer in the documents... ? Haha, i must read them carefully again this evening... yesterday i was in a rush.
<norsetto> s1024kb: what command did you use to install build-essential? Why not using the same for devscripts?
<s1024kb> norsetto: thank you. apt-get? haha.:)
<gnomefreak> s1024kb: everything you need is in the repos so apt-get will get everything
<norsetto> s1024kb: I think that before doing some packaging, you should really get to know the OS better
<s1024kb> norsetto: i am new to Ubuntu, but i guess that i will be smart enough to understand all these things... being a Windows programmer it's really not an easy thing, but i love it.
<gnomefreak> oh hell i know the OS and merges still giv eme issues ;)
<norsetto> s1024kb: yes, but I'm afraid you want to do too much too soon
<s1024kb> norsetto: that's the property of all programmers i guess...;)
<norsetto> s1024kb: which makes it much more difficult, as I said, one step at a time, get confortable with the OS first, especially with the CLI (Command Line Interface)
<gnomefreak> mv gnomefreak /chair/ubuntu /usr/bed/sleep
<persia> gno
<norsetto> s1024kb: and with the file system
<s1024kb> norsetto: just can not wait because i understand that life is too short. but i try to tell myself to be patient.
<persia> gnomefreak: You're taking your chair to bed?
<gnomefreak> nope better not be ;)
<norsetto> s1024kb: you should really first read a good book on the basics of linux (or unix)
<StevenHarperUK> gnomefreak: shouln't that be  mv gnomefreak /chair/ubuntu /home/gnomefreak/bed/sleep
<gnomefreak> good book official ubuntu book :)
<gnomefreak> StevenHarperUK: point
<s1024kb> norsetto: i had took the courses when i was in University, but not so deep ones.
<norsetto> s1024kb: <gnomefreak> good book official ubuntu book :)
<persia> s1024kb: Alternately, play with the system for a few months, and get familiar. with the quirks.  There's lots of docs in /usr/share/doc/, although you'll find yourself recursing frequently
<s1024kb> norsetto: haha, got 2 of that book, English version and Chinese version.:)
<StevenHarperUK> Books are good, but you can't beat using the OS and just following and reading Policy docs to understand where and why everything is where it is
<s1024kb> persia: thank you, i will do.:)
<geser> gnomefreak: mv: target '/usr/bed/sleep' is not a directory
<s1024kb> norsetto, persia, these days i feel like paradise with Ubuntu... i had never experienced it. Very happy.
<norsetto> gnomefreak: when you start talking like that its a good sign that a break MUST be taken
<persia> geser: Can't a bed hold multiple objects?  Seems like to models a directory :)
<norsetto> gnomefreak: and I'm not talking about a break:
<norsetto> s1024kb: yes, persia has that effect on many people :-)
<geser> persia: true, I hope gnomefreak prefers someone else next to him in the bed instead of his chair :)
<persia> geser: No, it's clearly the chair.
<s1024kb> norsetto: i guess that i don't have "a few months" as what persia said. I can only give myself "a few weeks". ...
<persia> s1024kb: Why?  Is there an external pressure to know the system quickly?
<norsetto> s1024kb: it takes what it takes, we will see
<s1024kb> persia: no, because i had promised...
<persia> s1024kb: Ah.  Towards which goal?
<StevenHarperUK> Hi MOTU's anyone fancy reviewing my package on REVU again, I am almost certain there is nothing left to find :P - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=444
<s1024kb> persia: i had told all my friends that i am a MOTU... i can not let them down. What i see is, people around had changed their life because i brought Ubuntu to them, and they want to become MOTUs too. I must learn faster, to teach them...
<geser> tough goal
<persia> s1024kb: That's hard in a few weeks.  It was two years between when I started contributing and joined MOTU.  On the other hand, there's no reason you can't help your friends without being MOTU.
<StevenHarperUK> I would never have the time to be a MOTU, I just want to contribute by making and packaging software, that I think ubuntu needs / or has gaps....
<s1024kb> persia: i understand. But i want to become skillful in this way - i can know more about the system and become a specialist among them, so that they can rely on me...
<persia> s1024kb: I'd suggest learning about debugging tools: if you can track down your friends bugs, and generate simple patches (in C, C++, python, perl, Eiffel, whatever), it's usually not hard to get the patches in.  With a little more effort, you can get your name in the changelog, and your friends will be suitably impressed.
<Fujitsu> persia: What did Eiffel do to make it onto that list?
<persia> Fujitsu: Provided a glade plugin :)
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<s1024kb> persia: we are people from a "broken inner world", i got healed by Ubuntu, and i know that my friends need it too...
<persia> s1024kb: Understood.  The other option is to become a support specialist, rather than a developer.  Learn about how the major subsystems interact, and help them to make their systems work.
<s1024kb> persia: now i am much stronger than the begining days i got Ubuntu from my boss's hand - i really thank him, for the great day.
<s1024kb> persia: i am a developer and my interest is programming... yes, i also have interest in supporting - actually i had already doing this in my company.
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I know there is a conference on today (and the next few days), will anyone be reviewing packages on REVU today or in the next few days?
<persia> s1024kb: Excellent.  I suspect you'll keep making progress, I just warn you that the unix way is acquired by experience, rather than well documented, and is best  learned by exploring, rather than attempting to do things immediately.
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Not as much as recently.  There is a REVU day scheduled for the 5th, after which things should pick up again.
<s1024kb> persia: thank you very much for your advice. I had dived into it and could not get out...:)
<StevenHarperUK> persia: thanks, where would I find that schedule, so I can stop bugging you guys....
 * norsetto wonders how many times StevenHarperUK will keep asking for his package to be reviewed between now and the 5th
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: once a day : I won't bug more than that.....
<_nand_> hehe
 * norsetto stopped counting after 10 (he doesn't have enough fingers)
<persia> StevenHarperUK: It's published in the minutes of the MOTU meetings.  Also, being careful to not ask for a review more than one in 24 hours (people define "day" differently, depending on timezone) may help.  Too many requests, and people may not review.
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I only just got the info if the scheduled day, so You wont hear me again today
 * norsetto discovers he has feet too! Another 10 good fingers to include .....
<s1024kb> norsetto, persia: good bye everyone, i must go home now for dinner. Bye and thank you very much.
 * persia passes norsetto a hint about using one's digits as bits
<norsetto> s1024kb: bye, take it easy! (I mean it ...)
<s1024kb> norsetto: thank you, i will.
 * _nand_ tells norsetto to use the chinese way : ten per hard
<_nand_> s/hard/hand/
<norsetto> persia: hey, I'm a 20 bits microprocessor ;-)
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Yes I am sorry about asking a lot - I have had lots of help from you guys (MOTU's) and I have learned lots and lots about packaging.
<persia> norsetto: Assuming you never have to count abscenses, you ought to be able to reach 1048575 without too much trouble :)
<norsetto> persia: I'm working on my southbridge right now
<persia> norsetto: Good luck.  I've never been able to properly maintain overflows (insufficient prehensility)
<geser> norsetto: doesn't have men also a 21st bit?
<norsetto> geser: some even a byte ;-)
<Fujitsu> norsetto: O_O
 * persia warns that suggestive language may not be appropriate...
<norsetto> !language | norsetto
<Fujitsu> It's approaching inappropriate, but not terrible.
 * StevenK appears.
 * persia cheers stevenk
<StevenK> And geez Boston is cold this morning
 * jpatrick greets StevenK
<geser> Hi StevenK
<StevenK> "Temperature: 3.0C"
<StevenK> "Feels like: -1.2C"
<persia> StevenK: Did you misplace a decimal point?
<StevenK> persia: I did not.
 * persia has reduced envy for people in Boston
<StevenK> persia: I'm used to Australian summer temperatures - where they start at 12, not 4x less than that.
<persia> It's 24 here
<StevenK> Send it here, I'll swap. :-)
<Fujitsu> 15.7Â° here.
<geser> it's 9Â°C here
<persia> StevenK: I'd be happy to split the difference :)
<StevenK> persia: :-)
 * Fujitsu would prefer Boston, because of both the temperature and event.
<persia> Fujitsu: 15.7 is too warm?
<Fujitsu> persia: I like much cooler.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I daresay you could have gotten sponsorship - if the parents would actually let you go, that is.
<persia> Fujitsu: If you come here, make sure it's between December and February :)
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I might try for the next one.. I have exams starting in 6 days, so couldn't have gone anyway.
<norsetto> persia: I thought you were in oz?
<Fujitsu> Not sure why exactly I'd be sponsored.
<persia> norsetto: No.  I'm in Tokyo.
<norsetto> persia: ah!
<norsetto> norsetto: there must be a logic, persia is in tokyo and fujitsu is in Australia
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Mmmm. Fun. I have two exams, one on the 13th (and I get back into .au on the 12th), and a deferred exam on the 19th
<warp10> lol!
<persia> norsetto: One doesn't tend to carry local names.  Were I in Medea, I'd likely change my nick
<StevenK> Fujitsu: You've done an awful lot for MOTU, and I daresay you would have useful contributions to make to any specs discussed.
 * StevenK runs off to have a shower and get ready.
<persia> Fujitsu: Definitely apply for the next one if you haven't been.  You're a mainstay of our QA efforts.
<Fujitsu> persia: I shall try.
 * StevenK high fives persia 
<Fujitsu> (and hopefully have more time for Ubuntu stuff in a couple of weeks once the damn exams are done)
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I doubt I've done enough, but I will try. If I can work out how.
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Evening, Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hiya
<stani> hi emmet, are you here?
<Hobbsee> persia: poke
<persia> stani: Yes, although I don't usually carry that nick here.  It's a good idea to check people's LP pages for their IRC nicks to make sure they highlight.
 * persia steals Hobbsee's stick, and pokes back
<persia> stani: Have you read the SRU page?
<stani> persia: I am reading it.
<stani> persia: shall I follow the complete procedure on the wiki: propose & prepare? No problem.
<stani> persia: I mean prepare & test
<persia> stani: I thought you'd already completed those stages :)
<stani> persia: have to lunch, I'll be back
<persia> stani: Ideally, you'd want to find a hardy tester to make sure the problem is gone, but this early in the cycle there aren't many users.
<persia> stani: OK.  I'll catch you after lunch.
<slangasek> azeem: not yet uploaded, but it's at 0.33 and will be sent to experimental and people.d.o soon
<slangasek> azeem: and you can cope with cmake yourself, I've already achieved my goal of getting motosync working :)
<Mez> siretart, ping ?
<Mez> or any revu admin
<persia> Mez: What do you need done?
<Hobbsee> Mez: enocontext.
<Mez> persia, my revu account seems to have been dissapeared - I need it readded ;)
<persia> Mez: When did you last log in?
<fernando> moin all
<Fujitsu> Mez: ~ubuntu-dev had new accounts created. Should be the primary address on LP.
<Mez> persia, a good few months ago
<persia> Mez: Before or after the security thing?  Also, can you not log in, or not comment?
<Mez> Fujitsu, hmmles.. well my mez@ubuntu.com WAS a revu admin last time I logged in ?
<Mez> persia, cannot login, says no account for me when I try and recover
<persia> Fujitsu: I thought it was last-changelog-entry account...
<Mez> persia, security thing ?
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, possibly.
<Fujitsu> Mez: There was a security issue on many of the Canonical community servers.
<persia> Mez: There was an incident.  REVU accounts were wiped, and some restored.  Yours would have been restored.
<Fujitsu> tiber (which hosted REVU) is no longer.
<Mez> persia, it wasnt ..
<persia> Hmm..  The email address you put up before should have worked (from what I can tell from dates & changelogs)
<Mez> persia,  ??
<Mez>   	 login for user "mez@ubuntu.com" failed, please retry or recover
<Mez> No REVU account for mez@ubuntu.com exists yet.
<Mez> does anyone here have access to re-create my account ?
<persia> Mez: That's awfully odd.  You could upload something, but that wouldn't give you review rights.  I'm surprised it doesn't work based on the key sync (and that definitely happened in the last few months).
<Mez> so it has my key ?
<persia> Mez: The accounts don't work quite like that.  You get one when you upload, or if your key gets sync'ed.  It should have your key, because you're -dev
<Mez> and it's for review rights ;)
<Hobbsee> go ahead and upload something, then i can change the reviewer status
<Mez> Hobbsee, got nothing to upload
<Mez> unless you wanna nuke it afteR?
<Hobbsee> yeah
<persia> Mez: Then upload dpkg :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Key syncing doesn't imply account creation.
<persia> Fujitsu: No?  I don't remember uploading anything, but my memory may be faulty
<Fujitsu> persia: The keys just control what is accepted. If something is accepted with a key that hasn't been seen before (but it won't get this far without being on the keyring), an account is created.
<persia> Fujitsu: Hrm.  That makes sense, based on how I know REVU works, but I think there is another way (and can neither remember the command nor access REVU right now)
 * Mez uploads
<DktrKranz> persia, I received a reply from aolserver4 maintainer stating there's no transition or such. He will gradually update aolserver4-* modules, but there's no hurry to do so right now, so I think it can be safe to merge it
<azeem> slangasek: ok
<persia> DktrKranz: There must be at least something.  aolserver4 split into aolserver4 (really aolserver4d) and aolserver4-code (really libaolserver4).  I haven't dug into the Debian package must (after the final release freeze is the wrong time to request an UVFe :) ), but I think that aolserver4-dev does the right thing anyway.  Still, it's probably best that we load things in the right order, as I don't imagine either of us really want to look at the 
<Hobbsee> Mez: Altering mez@ubuntu.com to level reviewer
<Mez> Hobbsee, so no longer an admin ? :'(
<Hobbsee> Mez: you'd presumably need to take that up with siretart?
<Mez> I need a password though
<Mez> ;)
<Hobbsee> there's a p/w set - you should be able to recover it
<persia> Mez: admin requires oddities due to the security restrictions.
<DktrKranz> persia, your string has been cut after "really want to look at the"
<azeem> slangasek: did you change the soname of libopensync?
 * persia hates buffers "...really want to look at the packages again :)"
<DktrKranz> hehe... got it
<Mez> persia, oddities?
<persia> Mez: As in, one needs to pass through some extra considerations.  I don't know all the details, but understand that the security issue was exacerbated by some local account, so there's new restrictions.
<Mez> Hobbsee, can you nuke the katapult upload
<Mez> persia, *shrugs*
<DktrKranz> anyway, I'll check to see if there are some issues by testing a couple of packages and eventually propose it for merge
<persia> DktrKranz: OK.  Let me know if you need any extra testing, or I can be any help.  I really don't want ldconfig.real :)
<Hobbsee> Mez: why not test if you can?
<DktrKranz> persia, just to save me a couple of minutes, do you remember why you pushed such change? any error during configure or similar issues?
<Mez> Hobbsee, I don't have a nuke button thats why
<IntuitiveNipple> Can anyone help me work out how to add a new quilt patch to kvm? I was trying to follow the MOTU/School/PatchingSources guide but it recommends creating a symlink from debian/patches to patches, but in this case there are patches in both locations already so I'm unsure how to proceed (symlink causes a patches/patches broken link)
<DktrKranz> IntuitiveNipple, try with "export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches" first
<persia> DktrKranz: The old package had the daemon and the library in the same binary package, and tried to start the daemon in the postinst.  Because of the deferred ldconfig trigger emulation, the daemon couldn't start (could not access the library).  Since aolserver4-dev depended on aolserver4, this meant that any package the build-depended on aolserver4-dev would FTBFS if the ldconfig trigger was enabled.
<DktrKranz> ok, thanks
<slangasek> azeem: I didn't change the soname from what upstream changed it to (?)
<persia> DktrKranz: I think that it's likely fixed with the package split, so my change can be dropped.  It just needs testing with the merged client packages, which is why I poked you :)
<IntuitiveNipple> DktrKranz: So basically ommit the symlink step?
<azeem> slangasek: I think they changed it to 1 for the 0.3x development series, but don't plan to change it to 2 for the 0.40 stable release; however, they reserve the right to change API during the following 0.3x releases
<DktrKranz> hehe, I will do in the next few days, thanks for the quick explanation
<DktrKranz> IntuitiveNipple, yes
<IntuitiveNipple> DktrKranz: Thanks... I'll give it a go :p
<DktrKranz> IntuitiveNipple, this way quilt is instructed to look for patches in that directory
<IntuitiveNipple> DktrKranz: Yes, the guide shows doing the export after setting up the symlink... I'll see how it goes :)
<slangasek> azeem: which is fine, it just means we get to hit them with a stick until they do something sensible
<slangasek> azeem: but the 0.33 can't be 0 because 0 is already used for an incompatible ABI :)
<DktrKranz> I never created a symlink, it worked good without it :)
<azeem> slangasek: my idea was to pretend 0.19 doesn't exist and keep 0.3x libopensync0 in experimental till 0.40 is released, then bump to 1 and upload to unstable
<azeem> but ok, I see how this might not be popular with everybody
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: Revu does not accept binaries.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: please make sure you only upload *sources*
<viviersf> ajmitch, ping. Just need to ask you a favour
<zul> hes probably gone to bed
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: if you did not know, the ubuntu archive does *also* not accept binaries, and will silently reject them.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: please be more careful with your uploads in future.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Isn't it loud about rejecting them?
<Fujitsu> I'm sure it complained at me when I did it once.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: unsure.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i know some cases get silently rejected
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: but, i havent been silly enough to upload a binary package there
<Fujitsu> AFAIK the only silent rejection cause is when an upload is signed by an unknown key, or not signed at all.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> i've only tried with unknown kye
<Hobbsee> no, unsigned.
<Fujitsu> (unknown meaning not known at all by LP, not just not in the appropriate keyring)
<Hobbsee> yup
<Hobbsee> StevenharperUK has appeared to upload stuff without a changes file.
 * Hobbsee ponders if the penalties for violating all the documentation that exists should have a harsher penalty for MOTU's than non-MOTU's.
<Hobbsee> seeing as, y'know, if they're getting that wrong, do we even want to contemplate what else they're getting wrong?  (either by not paying attention, or just by ignorance?)
<Hobbsee> and they can upload without restraint....
<joejaxx> imbrandon: the reason is the default settings uses dpkg-divert :P no one like that here :P
<joejaxx> pwnguin: it is not only me there are quite an amount of other people working on fluxbuntu
<zul> Hobbsee: i really dont know how to use patch ;)
<Hobbsee> zul: i was thinking more simple things.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: hopefully we get that fixed
<zul> using patch is simple :)
<Hobbsee> what the frick?
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: okay, you're not going to get larted.  unless you're signing by a differnet key
<Hobbsee>  Pedro Fragoso (Key) <emberez@gmail.com>, however, is.
<persia> ember: ping
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I like the comment on that key.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: indeed.
<siretart> Mez: pong
<persia> If stani comes back whilst I am away: stani is spe upstream SRUing spe, and seeks a hand with process.  Please provide guidance :)
<Mez> siretart, was sorted out above, was wondering where my REVU account had gone! (lol - seeing as I *was* an admin and then when wennt to review had no account - I'm back as a reviewer now - unless you want me to stull be admin then thats fine  by me)
<siretart> Mez: ok
<proppy> hi
<slangasek> azeem: well, upstream has already used .so.1 for 0.33, and 0.19 is in etch... if you want 0.40 to keep 1 as the soname, that's still ok with me as long as 0.33 is confined to experimental, but I don't see the advantage to modifying 0.33 to lie about it being equal to 0.19, instead of keeping the same and lying about it being equal to 0.40
<slangasek> azeem: also, using 1 in experimental avoids users accidentally breaking their stable systems by importing it, as opposed to only breaking unstable systems
<norsetto> hi proppy
<proppy> norsetto: going to eat brb
<norsetto> proppy: bon appetit
<joejaxx>  /win 290
<joejaxx> bah
<ion_> 290? :-)
<IntuitiveNipple> Another question about quilt patching: To add documentation about a patch is it as simple as adding the test to the start of the debian/patches/xx_name.patch file after all quilt operations are complete (after quilt pop -a) ?
<IntuitiveNipple> s/test/text/
<joejaxx> ion_: lol
<broonie> quilt supports header editing - the command is 'quilt header'
<broonie> (quilt header -e is what you want most of the time.)
<IntuitiveNipple> broonie: I tried that but it didn't appear to change anything
<broonie> Tried what exactly?
<IntuitiveNipple> broonie: The file remained in /tmp after editing but wasn't applied to the patch after I'd done "quilt refresh" and "quilt pop -a"
<IntuitiveNipple> broonie: Tried "quilt header -e" after "quilt push -a"
<broonie> push/pop don't matter too much except that the default patch to work on is the current patch.
<broonie> You shouldn't need to do anything except 'quilt header -e'
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, my last review on REVU states that : Needs Python Review : How do I get one of these?
<IntuitiveNipple> broonie: Yes, I'd just created a new patch and was trying to add the documentation. I was reading the Debian guide on this but it just said to add the documentation to the top of the patch file itself. I found the 'header' option in man myself and tried it but it didn't change the top patch, eith in .pc or after refresh, in debian/patches
<IntuitiveNipple> broonie: I'll try it again
<ScottK2> StevenHarperUK: Does your package use a distutils setup.py (I think we discussed this before, but don't recall for sure).
<IntuitiveNipple> broonie: 'quilt applied' shows me the patch I want as at the top, so I should now do  'quilt header -e', yes?
<skimat> hi ho
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK2: No it doesn't: all the packaging bits are fixed now : and I have followed all the Python Packaging Guides
<skimat> i d like to switch virtual desktop while hovering the 2icons and scrolling the wheel : this is a suggestion feature request
<broonie> IntuitiveNipple: Yes.
<ScottK2> StevenHarperUK: I may (emphasize may) have time to look at it this week.  I've sort of resigned from reviewing, but may make an exception if I have time while I'm at UDS today and tomorrow.
<IntuitiveNipple> broonie: -e should still work if the patch file doesn't current contain a header, yes? (because it isn't changing it)
<IntuitiveNipple> broonie: To clarify, currently the patch doesn't have a header
<IntuitiveNipple> broonie: Strangely, if I've added the header manually, 'quilt header' shows it as expected
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk2: Ta I presume a Python review is just done my a MOTU then?
<azeem> slangasek: so once libopensync1 gets into unstable, how do we make sure our beta testers don't get burnt with their experimental libopensync1?  By conflicting against the old front-end, forcing a mass-update?
<ScottK2> StevenHarperUK: I haven't looked, but I suspect they just wanted someone familiar with Python policy to review it.
<ScottK2> StevenHarperUK: Yes.
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK2: Right so it's a just a MOTU review by someone who knows python then :p
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK2: ta for the info
<IntuitiveNipple> A last quilt question. To create the new source package diff do I need to delete quilt's .pc/ directory first to prevent it showing up in the source diff?
<slangasek> azeem: could do that; or rename the library package to libopensync1debian1 or something and conflict with libopensync1?
<broonie> Yes, it should work fine. What's your $EDITOR?
<IntuitiveNipple> broonie: gedit
<azeem> slangasek: well, I wanted to avoid strange library names if possible, but I guess we can live with it
<slangasek> azeem: or I could upload to experimental as "libopensync1pre"?
<slangasek> if we're really sure that upstream is going to screw up 0.40
<slangasek> (which I don't have too much doubt about, myself...)
<azeem> well, they say distributions shouldn't package 0.3x....
<slangasek> that's no excuse. :)
<slangasek> and I'm not going to sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting for them to further screw around with the build system before getting syncing to my SLVR L7 going
<azeem> slangasek: they promised 0.34 for the last weekend; maybe we can wait till that?
<azeem> or I should check out svn and see what the status is
<broonie> IntuitiveNipple: Try with vi or pico, just to check
<azeem> SET_TARGET_PROPERTIES( opensync PROPERTIES VERSION 1.0.0 SOVERSION 1 )
<IntuitiveNipple> I used gedit ok for the source-code edit when I did 'quilt edit ...'. I'm doing the entire process again since I forgot to edit the changelog before debuild so I'll try it with nano :)
<slangasek> azeem: what's the advantage of waiting for 0.34?
<azeem> if they screwed up the scons->cmake transition for the library versioning, we wouldn't have to clean that up as well
<azeem> but that looks unlikely
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, huh?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, I didnt upload anything to revu
<IntuitiveNipple> broonie: 'header -e' worked OK with gedit when I did between 'edit ...' and 'refresh' - previously I was doing it after I'd created and refreshed. Don't know why that'd make a difference.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: yes, i said later
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, wrong person?
<bluekuja> :)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: someone's uploaded with your changelog entry, and signed with their key
<bluekuja> who??
<bluekuja> link please
<slangasek> azeem: ok.  well, this is work I'm doing right now anyway, because I have local access to bluetooth expertise and want to plow through getting everything working that I care about, so my preference is certainly to get this all pushed somewhere that others could benefit :)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yay, inverse sponsoring.
<slangasek> rosnopsing?
<azeem> slangasek: are you interested in getting "Windows mobile stuff" working as well?
<slangasek> what's that? :)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: it was said above.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, yes, do you have a link for the revu page?
<Hobbsee> no
<azeem> I mentioned talking to "a ubuntu guy" in #opensync, and the resident conduit-opensync-glue-all-together guy wanted to talk to this ubuntu guy about "windows mobile stuff"
<Hobbsee> well, there might be a public one somewhere.  i dont konw.
<azeem> slangasek: it's about making those daemons you need to talk to WindowsCE devices just work
<bluekuja> ember, is emberez@gmail.com your mail?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, anyway thanks for pinging me
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, I know the archive doesnt accept binaries
<bluekuja> I gonna listen what ember will say
<bluekuja> about this
<bluekuja> https://edge.launchpad.net/~pmf
<bluekuja> here it is
<amachu> bluekuja: hi
<bluekuja> amachu, hi
<amachu> bluekuja: had a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtdmm/+bug/156243
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156243 in qtdmm "Merge qtdmm 0.8.10-1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<amachu> is it fine?
<amachu> subscribe to u-u-s mean to give the u-u-s id to 'Subscribe someone else'? am i right?
<bluekuja> amachu, yes
<bluekuja> that's it
<amachu> shall i do it now?
<bluekuja> amachu, yes, I'll take a look at it when I have some spare minutes
<amachu> bluekuja: sure.. what next?
<amachu> some more things to merge?
<bluekuja> amachu, just wait me or another developer to check it
<amachu> bluekuja: sure :-)
<bluekuja> amachu, yes, check the channel topic
<amachu> i will loo into them
<amachu> thank you
<bluekuja> np, thanks to you
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK2> Heya bddebian.
<norsetto> hi bddebian, hi scottk
<ScottK2> Heya norsetto.
<norsetto> scottk2: I hear its pretty chilly in Boston today
<ScottK2> Not for Boston.
<bddebian> Hi ScottK2, norsetto
<joejaxx> hello all
<joejaxx> :)
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<proppy> re
<warp10> norsetto: ping
<norsetto> warp10: pong
<warp10> norsetto: I was looking this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cryptsetup/+bug/153597
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153597 in cryptsetup "cryptsetup doesn't understand UUID= in crypttab" [Undecided,New]
<warp10> norsetto: the proposed debdiff just contains the patch for the source, not for changelog (and control, and so on)
<warp10> norsetto: in a situation like this, can I use that patch to fix the bug, and then create a complete debdiff to be reviewd by u-u-s?
<ScottK2> warp10: You can.
<norsetto> warp10: in theory yes, but that goes to main as well, so its u-m-s
<warp10> ScottK, norsetto: ok, great.
<warp10> norsetto: being a main package, is it an appropriate bug for a beginner (like... say... me!) or better I stay off?
<norsetto> warp10: the packaging bit yes, but you should talk with somebody in main to check if the patch is really worth it
<norsetto> warp10: like pitti, who uploaded it last
<azeem> slangasek: so, the currently active opensync developer says "I hope so" if asked whether the library name will remain unchanged until 0.40
<warp10> norsetto: ok, I'll email him. In the meantime I will create the debdiff, just as an exercise. :)
<azeem> slangasek: so using a debian-specific soname for now looks like a good solution to me
<norsetto> warp10: you can also attach it to the bug report
<warp10> norsetto: roger!
<norsetto> warp10: and an email may not be the best solution, try to talk to him, he is usually hanging around in #ubuntu-dev
<norsetto> warp10: even though he is presumably busy with the UDS right now
<warp10> norsetto: whois says he is not online :(
<azeem> slangasek: maybe call it libopensync1pre0 (or pre1?) anticipating further breakage until 0.40
<lifeless> I'm anticipating continual breakage
<lifeless> they don't understand abi change == soname change
<norsetto> warp10: yeah, i think its still a bit early there, what is it now scottk, 8:30am?
<azeem> lifeless: the person I suspect didn't undestand it (abauer) doesn't seem to be heavily involved anymore
<azeem> dgollub appears to be more reasonable
<norsetto> warp10: do you now how to patch a source file?
<norsetto> warp10: s/now/know
<slangasek> azeem: and why is the ABI going to break between now and 0.40?
<warp10> norsetto: I was just reading "man patch". Any hint?
<norsetto> warp10: there is a good intro here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<norsetto> warp10: to check what patch system is being used, you can use what-patch from the ubuntu-dev-tools package
<azeem> slangasek: 0.3x is their development series, they make no guarantees
<azeem> it /might/ break
<warp10> norsetto: ok, great! Thanks! :-)
<norsetto> warp10: let us know if you have problems
<slangasek> azeem: righto
<afflux> Hi. I just got two sync requests ready, anyone might ack them? They're bug 157136 and bug 157172
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157136 in zeroinstall-injector "Please sync zeroinstall-injector 0.29-1  (universe) from Debian	unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157136
<norsetto> afflux: have you subscribed u-u-s?
<afflux> yep
<norsetto> afflux: can you attach a build log?
<afflux> think so. will be ready in a minute.
<afflux> norsetto: ^
<norsetto> afflux: thanks
<warp10> norsetto: in the changelog, should I move the distro to hardy or keep gutsy?
<norsetto> warp10: we should prepare a patch for hardy, and if it is worth it, once accepted, we can prepare another for gutsy (its a different procedure since it is an SRU, Stable Release Update).
<afflux> norsetto: both buildlogs attached.
<michele77> hi all. I'd like to be helped to patch this bug 151530, if it's possible
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151530 in wine "user's profile shell folders should symlink to $XDG_XXX_DIR" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151530
<norsetto> afflux: bug 157136 ak'ed to archive, thanks for your work
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157136 in zeroinstall-injector "Please sync zeroinstall-injector 0.29-1  (universe) from Debian	unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157136
<norsetto> bug 153597
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153597 in cryptsetup "cryptsetup doesn't understand UUID= in crypttab" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153597
<zul> ahh...blowing away a terabyte file system is strangely cathartic
<lucas__> soren: ping
<lucas__> soren: could you upload ubuntu-dev-tools with the submittodebian patch?
<SWAT> just checking, is this a good howto for building packages?  http://julien.danjou.info/buildd.html
<hellboy195> can anybody tell me the link to the (merging) site where the different version numbers of the actual packages in debian and ubuntu are shown?
<ScottK2> hellboy195: Either merges.ubuntu.com or DaD (see /topic)
<hellboy195> ScottK: yes I meanted DaD. THX :D
<bmm> Just because I'm curious: when will a source package like empathy 0.14 be build and what sets of the building process? (regarding: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/0.14-1ubuntu1/+build/425647 )
<bluekuja> hi ember
<crimsun_> lionel: do you mind if I look at qjackctl 0.3.1a?
<geser> bmm: when it moved its way up in the build queue
<bmm> geser: ah, there is a build queue... good to know. How long does something like that take?
<geser> bmm: auto-sync got turned on a few days ago and a large batch of packages got synced at the same time
<geser> bmm: I don't know how long it takes for a package to get build right now
<bmm> Well, good to know it will be automatically evaluated.. I'll just be patient ;-)
<bmm> geser: thanks!
<TheMuso_Boston> crimsun_: As I said earlier, if you don't have time to do qjackctl, I can have a look at it, thats if lionel doesn't mind either one of us doing it.
<nxvl> hi you all!
<norsetto> nxvl: Hola
<norsetto> nxvl: did you talk with kevin?
<nxvl> norsetto: nop, i have just connected i read the messages a minute ago
<nxvl> norsetto: i will do it in a moment
<crimsun_> TheMuso_Boston: (doing it ATM)
<norsetto> nxvl: sure
<TheMuso_Boston> crimsun_: np then.
<lionel> crimsun_: please go on with qjackctl :)
<lionel> crimsun_: please go on with qjackctl
<crimsun_> lionel: ok, thanks.
<lionel> np
<TheMuso_Boston> gah. Me needs to wait for a fs to resize before suspending...
<mtp_> Per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU, can you guys please resync the GPG keys with REVU?
<blueyed> Changes to config.guess and config.sub should get removed from a debdiff, shouldn't they?
<slangasek> blueyed: define "should" here please?
<blueyed> slangasek: it seems to be autogenerated stuff (which I don't know). should=do not have to get removed, but would get rebuilded during build anyway??
<blueyed> removing them makes the diff smaller..
<slangasek> blueyed: whether they get rebuilt at build time depends entirely on the specifics of the package
<blueyed> slangasek: they got changed for "debuild -S" (I'm talking about dspam)
<sistpoty|UDS> blueyed: there shouldn't be any difference in config.sub/guess after clean
<LaserJock> anybody know if there's a wiki page yet for the packaging doc spec?
<sistpoty|UDS> hey LaserJock
<sistpoty|UDS> LaserJock: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packaging-docs-revisited <- maybe that one
<sistpoty|UDS> LaserJock: (this session just finished in the room I'm sitting in *g*
<LaserJock> sistpoty|UDS: yes, I was listening in
<LaserJock> sistpoty|UDS: at least trying too, it's really hard to hear anything
<slangasek> blueyed: oh, I've reread your question; yes, for a debdiff that you're feeding to sponsors, it's simplest to strip out the config.guess/sub changes
<sistpoty|UDS> LaserJock: oh, i c
<LaserJock> I was trying to hear if you guys were saying "That Packaging Guide that LaserJock did is a real piece of ..." ;-)
<blueyed> slangasek: ok, thanks.
<sistpoty|UDS> LaserJock: we only mumbled this in the background :P
<LaserJock> ahhhh ;-)
<sistpoty|UDS> k, break here, so I'm off again... cya
<pochu> keescook: I've reported bug 158414. Would you mind looking at it, and if it's ok, accepting the tasks for the stable releases?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158414 in wesnoth "denial of service in wesnoth client and server prior 1.2.7 release" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158414
<astimodeus> hey folks :D
<astimodeus> may I ask you a thing?
<pochu> astimodeus: sure.
<astimodeus> (well i'm asking anyway) do I need to send some bio/skills features to someone to become a perspective developer?
<astimodeus> (well not features, infos)
<LaserJock> astimodeus: no
<LaserJock> just start helping out
<astimodeus> allright ty
<astimodeus> i'm learning the ubuntu packaging system atm
<LaserJock> great
<pwnguin> the only skills you need to be a prospective developer is debdiff ;)
<astimodeus> eheh well you know i aim to become a motu too, so i'll just have to work hard and learn the most that i can
<astimodeus> :)
<ajmitch> pwnguin: I'd say you need a bit more than that...
<LaserJock> ajmitch: really? ;-)
<astimodeus> marÃ¹ sux
<pwnguin> to be a _good_ prospect, sure.
<pochu> TheMuso_Boston: I answered to you in bug 156436 (...since you are not subscribed...)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156436 in wesnoth "wesnoth: merge new Debian version 1.2.7-2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156436
<ajmitch> LaserJock: though that's about all I have :P
<maru>  hi can anyone help me with a problem installing avant window manager?
<g2g591> wrong channel
<pwnguin> hilarious uds title
<pwnguin> "nm-ifupdown-death-match"
<g2g591> can some one take a look at my packaging of tightvnc 1.3.9? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=453
<maru> http://pastebin.com/d7df08d79 this is the problem
<slangasek> maru: sorry, but this is not a user support channel; please see #ubuntu
<astimodeus> maru: sarai mica mara :D
<astimodeus> (sorry for the language)
<maru> yeah i've been asking for an hour and nobody answers
<maru> are you italian?
<astimodeus> maru: so' mazzingaa fessa -_-
<pwnguin> doesnt gutsy have an awm built?
<pwnguin> build, even
<sharms> maru: why doesnt this work for you? http://awn.wetpaint.com/page/UbuntuFeistyHowTo
<sharms> maru: Process goes: 1.  Read website of package  2. Following instructions 3. If there is an issue, ask on their support channel  4. If their channel thinks its ubuntu specific ask on #ubuntu
<maru> because i wanted to install the svn
<sharms> There is no #5 'ask in motu'
<maru> sorry i'm new to linux
<sharms> anywho, that link I sent works 100% in feisty and gutsy
<sharms> if there are changes or updates to the process I will update it there
<g2g591> can some one take a look at my packaging of tightvnc 1.3.9? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=453
<proppy> norsetto: here ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes .....
<proppy> norsetto: going to the copyright section of your comment
<proppy> norsetto: did you noticed the fix I've uploaded on revu
<proppy> norsetto: ?
<proppy> norsetto: regarding general & changelog issue
<norsetto> proppy: yes, it was good, I think you only forgot to add a note in changelog about the tarball format change
<proppy> norsetto: I thought about it
<proppy> norsetto: but I thought the changelog has to be Initial release if not publied ?
<proppy> norsetto: cause I should also had a watch entry
<proppy> norsetto: removal of the README file etc etc
<norsetto> proppy: no, all these changes are pure packaging changes
<proppy> norsetto: yep I know but even if the change are not publied yet (I mean on ubuntu repository)
<norsetto> propy: a change of the tarball is not a package change, you are touching upstream work, so it should be reported in a visible way, especially for the next guy who is going to work on your package
<proppy> norsetto: should I put them in the debian/changelog ?
<proppy> oh ok
<proppy> norsetto: I see
<proppy> norsetto: so you mean ChangeLog and not debian/ChangeLog ?
<proppy> debian/changelog
<norsetto> proppy: no, I really mean debian/changelog
<proppy> norsetto: hmm ok
<norsetto> proppy: its required in copyright, and its good practice to have it in changelog too
<proppy> norsetto: in the same entry than Initial release ?
<norsetto> proppy: just a sec
<norsetto> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<proppy> norsetto: I feel pretty uncomfortable that there is not changelog entry for all the stuff I'm doing
<proppy> norsetto: but I guess, it's due to not-published-yet status
<norsetto> proppy: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42606/
 * norsetto 1 - proppy 0
<norsetto> proppy: they are not changes on a functioning product, they are mainly error correction, no need to keep a changelog
<proppy> norsetto: ok
<norsetto> proppy: you will see all the changes in revu anyhow
<proppy> norsetto: I still have http://hg.mumble.aminche.com/ to keep track of them anyway
 * norsetto 1 - proppy 1 (zut)
<proppy> Should I also add this to copyright
<proppy> ?
<proppy> maybe It's in your upcoming comments
<proppy> let me see
<norsetto> proppy: for the copyright its a long work, there are many sources in that package, and you need to coordinate with upstream unfortunately
<cbx33> hey hey guys
<norsetto> proppy: an example on how to do it: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42607/
<cbx33> i was thinking is there a way to run a command when anybody logs in and out of hte server
<cbx33> like via ssh or on the tty or gnome
<norsetto> !support | cbx33
<ubotu> cbx33: the official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
<ajmitch> heh
<cbx33> norsetto, yes i am well aware of where the ubuntu support channel is
<ajmitch> hey cbx33 :)
<cbx33> hiya ajmitch
<cbx33> long time bud
<cbx33> howz it going
<ajmitch> good, what are you up to?
<cbx33> ahh just helping out the brother in law
<cbx33> and hacking around with WebDAV, DAV SVN and at the mo stitching in Hugin
<g2g591> hey, can some one take a look at my packaging of tightvnc 1.3.9? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=468
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.mumble.aminche.com/rev/768ea1eb53e5
<norsetto> proppy: ok
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.mumble.aminche.com/rev/80445c6f9240
<norsetto> proppy: yes, i was thinking that we should actually retain his date
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.mumble.aminche.com/rev/b4a1110dbb20
<cbx33> what you up to ajmitch ?
<proppy> norsetto: are the date innacurate ?
<ScottK2> g2g591: There's REVU hacking going on right now at UDS, so it's possible REVU may be unavailble for a moment or two.
<g2g591> ok
<norsetto> proppy: well, I don't know why it was changed in my comment actually, I might have done something silly when pasting
<proppy> let me look at the original changelog
<norsetto> proppy: you have it in your diff
<nxvl> fbond: ping
<ajmitch> cbx33: the usual, work & doing various other small things
<ajmitch> not a lot of ubuntu stuff lately
<norsetto> proppy: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:31:58 +0200
<proppy> norsetto: not Thorvald's one
<cbx33> ajmitch, me neither
<norsetto> propyy: which date then!?
<norsetto> proppy: which date then!?
<proppy> norsetto: how you're right
<proppy> 28 Sep 2006 16:31:58 +0200.
<proppy> and mine should match the changelog as well
<proppy>  +It was subsequently modified and brought in line with the Debian policy by +Johan Euphrosine (proppy) on Sun, 28 Oct 2007 01:41:46 +0200
<proppy>    -- Johan Euphrosine (proppy) <proppy@aminche.com>  Mon, 29 Oct 2007 01:48:53 +0000
<norsetto> proppy: not necessarily
<proppy> ok
<norsetto> proppy: you may use the date on the changelog to keep track of the package
<nxvl> norsetto: why you ask me if i talk to kevin, who's kevin? didn't you mean Forest?
<norsetto> proppy: just update it when you upload, but don't upload every change ......
<norsetto> nxvl: thats upstream
<norsetto> nxvl: kevin dekorte
<proppy> norsetto: yep
<Ahmuck> hi
<Ahmuck> i'm interested in packaging for *buntu
<jussi01> !packagingguide | Ahmuck, please read:
<ubotu> Ahmuck, please read:: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<lifeless> StevenK: mpt will be 10 minutes late
<jussi01> Ahmuck: many people are at UDS atm, so please dont take it to heart if there is not much of a response.
<nxvl> norsetto: oh, k
<nxvl> norsetto: that evin
<norsetto> jussi01: well, perhaps ahmuck wants to ask a question?
<proppy> norsetto: http://mumble.aminche.com/copyright.out
<norsetto> proppy: I think licenses.h is screwing up your script ;-)
<norsetto> proppy: and how do you know if there is no copyright? because thats something to tell upstream .....
<proppy> norsetto: I just wanted to get a list to ask the authors about
<nxvl> norsetto: i'm writting him right now
<proppy> norsetto: To Thorvald Natvig:
<proppy> Norsetto and I noticed that there are additional authors quoted in some souces, should we also quote them in the copyright ?
<proppy> norsetto: see the list below
<proppy> norsetto: I will uniq the grep
<Ahmuck> i'm ok with no response.  there are several packages i would like to see, and getting them packaged is like pulling teeth, so i supposed i would do them myself
<norsetto> proppy: yes, all copyright onwers shall be listed in copyright
<norsetto> proppy: authors too, but if upstream has an AUTHORS file we can just point to it
<ScottK2> norsetto: Actually for minor copyright holders (such at in a Makefile) they needn't be mentioned.  For licenses though you must be exhaustive.
<proppy> no AUTHORS file
<proppy> norsetto:
<norsetto> scottk2: yes, I mean not autogenerated files
<siretart> NOTICE: we are currently hacking a bit on revu. please expect breakage ;)
 * norsetto wonders what "hacking a bit" really hides
<ajmitch> probably implementing revu2
<siretart> nope
<siretart> we are introducing stable urls for packages
<proppy> norsetto: full list http://mumble.aminche.com/copyright.out
<wallyweek> hi all!
<ajmitch> siretart: oh, so that you don't need to know the upload id? :)
<ScottK2> ajmitch: Yes.  So you can put a stable link to a REVU package in the LP needs-packaging bug
<ajmitch> useful
<proppy> norsetto: bug #129081 updated waiting for the upstream to comment
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129081
<siretart> ajmitch: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=murx
<siretart> links like that
<norsetto> proppy: personally, I'd rather make a list of all points we need upstream action and send it once
<wallyweek> should I file a needs-packaging bug on LP for the packages I built on my own?
<norsetto> proppy: I'm quite sure we need some for the licenses too
<proppy> norsetto: ok so I should keep the work in progress of this list, in a file on mumble.aminche.com for example ?
<norsetto> wallyweek: why not? add a link to revu if your package is there
<norsetto> proppy: well, if you check the sources, you will see some additional authors which are not copyright owners
<norsetto> proppy: check my comment on revu
<norsetto> proppy: plus a list of files which are missing either license or copyright
<proppy> norsetto: I'm reading it right now, but isn't an authors, the copyright owner of his code by default ?
<proppy> norsetto: how can you tell which are and which aren't ?
<ScottK2> norsetto: If you look, you'll see that url by packagename is now on REVU and so URLs will be stable (thanks siretart), so there's probably some docs needs updating.
<ScottK2> Also URLs won't be changing all the time.
<ajmitch> siretart: so how about comments from non-reviewers? maybe with some css table styling to tell them apart
<proppy> norsetto: it seems that I mixed 2 different issue
<proppy> norsetto: AUTHORS and Copyright owners
<norsetto> proppy: yes, and the files missing both and/or the license header
<nxvl> norsetto: y have just write him
<proppy> norsetto: I hope you don't mean license.h by license header :)
<nxvl> norsetto: now i need only to wait for an answer
<proppy> norsetto: thanks for all the info :)
<norsetto> proppy: and the licenses, and the files which have "no preferred form of modification"
<norsetto> proppy: and ask him about /installer
<proppy> norsetto: "no preferred form of modification" ?
<norsetto> proppy: don't let me repeat all my comments here, they are on revu
<norsetto> proppy: yes, whats the problem with that?
<proppy> norsetto: I just understand it :)
 * cyberix is lacking the brain power to parse version numberin chapter of the packaging guide.
<proppy> norsetto: sorry for being slowminded :P
<cyberix> First the example shows...
<cyberix> hello (2.1.1-1) dapper; urgency=low
<cyberix> And then the guide says you should use...
<cyberix> 2.1.1-0ubuntu1
<LaserJock> cyberix: yes
<LaserJock> the first example is for a pure Debian package
<ScottK2> cyberix: First thing is don't worry about urgency, Ubuntu doesn't use it.  It needs to be there, but it makes no difference what it is.
<LaserJock> cyberix: the second is an example of an Ubuntu version
<LaserJock> cyberix: because Ubuntu is based on Debian we need to show when we've modified the package from Debian
<LaserJock> and we need to make sure that the right version is installed
<LaserJock> cyberix: does that make sense?
<proppy> norsetto: I don't know how I should make the difference between copyright owner and authors, but I will do my best
<cyberix> So I should use 2.1.1-0ubuntu1, unless I'm packaging for Debian.
<ScottK2> cyberix: For a new package, yes.
<cyberix> Jumping between Debian/Ubuntu newpackage/existingexample adds lots of dimensions one has to keep account of to understand the packaging.
<LaserJock> cyberix: yes, there is a lot to keep track of
<LaserJock> and that's not even all of it
<LaserJock> but with patience you'll get it
<sistpoty|UDS> revu should be working again :)
<ScottK2> sistpoty|UDS: Looks good to me.  Thanks again.
<sistpoty|UDS> ScottK2: no problem
<ajmitch> hello sistpoty|UDS
<sistpoty|UDS> hi ajmitch
<proppy> norsetto: I don't manage to grep the additionnal authors you mentionned in the comment, in any source file
<norsetto> proppy: ok, I don't have track where I found them unfortunately
<proppy> -*- mode: grep; default-directory: "/home/www/mumble-1.1.0/src/" -*-
<proppy> Grep started at Mon Oct 29 21:49:49
<proppy> find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 -e grep -nH -e 'Martin Fay'
<proppy> Grep exited abnormally with code 123 at Mon Oct 29 21:49:49
<norsetto> proppy: let me check
<proppy> I guess I've completly missed something
<warp10> norsetto: I've just reviewed the bug togheter with pitti
<norsetto> warp10: good :-)
<warp10> :)
<warp10> norsetto: and now I'm going to write your email
<norsetto> proppy: there are some in speex/AUTHORS
<norsetto> warp10: ok, I'm waiting for that
<norsetto> proppy: somtime is things like: @author Jean-Marc Valin but copyright epic (the company has the copyright, not the author)
<proppy> norsetto: I see thanks for the precision
<norsetto> proppy: look at this, is almost as old as me: TYPE........: Turbo C header file
<norsetto> proppy: DATE CREATED: 21/11/95
<ryanakca> where can I get a debootstrap that supports hardy? hardy repos?
<proppy> norsetto: :)
<ScottK2> ryanakca: What are you trying to do?
<proppy> norsetto: shouldn't we split speex for the package ?
<ryanakca> ScottK2: setup a hardy schroot
<crimsun_> ryanakca: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10111924/debootstrap_1.0.6_all.deb
<ScottK2> ryanakca: I'd set it up gutsy and then distupgrade it.
<proppy> norsetto: oups it's already package
<ScottK2> Or do what crimsun_ says.
<proppy> norsetto: !!!
<ryanakca> crimsun_: thanks
<proppy> norsetto: http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=speex&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<proppy> norsetto: libspeex-dev since sarge
<norsetto> proppy: yeah, we had already a long discussion on that, see the bug report
<proppy> norsetto: ok sorry :)
<proppy> norsetto: I feel like showing up in the middle of a converstation
<norsetto> proppy: that was more or less the whole discussion
<wallyweek> ok, I filed a bug for my new packages (btpd and shorten) and assigned the needs-packaging of sdlmame to myself
<wallyweek> anyone would like to rieview them? ;)
<warp10> norsetto: you've got mail!
<norsetto> warp10: how much did I win?
<warp10> norsetto: a free medical check-up in my hospital! Are you happy? :P
<norsetto> warp10: divertissement .... norsetto rolls his eyes
<warp10> :D
<proppy> norsetto: so I guess my last comment on the bug in pretty pointless, as I listed copyright owner instead of authors, and forgot to mention much of the thing to ask upstream
<proppy> norsetto: I will do my best to craft a better one later :)
<proppy> eating time
<norsetto> [23:04] <proppy> eating time (and thats local time for him too....)
<fbond> nxvl: What can I help you with?
<SWAT> do you think this howto is correct and is useable? (it's about sbuild, buildd and wanna-build) -> http://julien.danjou.info/buildd.html
<azeem> SWAT: what do you want to do?
<SWAT> build packages from source
<azeem> I suggest pbuilder then
<azeem> or do you want to rebuild 1000+ packages?
<persia> SWAT: You'll likely want to configure schroot as well.  Also, there are a couple configuration changes you need for Ubuntu: most importantly changing the default distribution from unstable to hardy.  Lastly, that solution doesn't build arch:all packages.
<persia> SWAT: I suggest you'll do better with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<SWAT> persia, allright, since I don't want the LVM part, I'll leave that out. Thanks for the 2nd opinion and the ulr
<persia> SWAT: Also, for extra verisimilitude, install the pkgbinarymangler and pkg-create-dbgsym packages.
<SWAT> azeem, I want to build from scratch, not rebuild (real source, not deb-src code)
<persia> SWAT: You probably do want the LVM part.  You only need a 10GB partition.  Otherwise, you may as well use pbuilder.  Also, these are for deb-src code.  For raw code, just use ./configure; make
<lamego> a debootstrapped schroot is a built from scratch environment a la debian
<SWAT> persia, so for creating packages (.deb) from source (.tar.gz or .bz2 etc.) I can use sbuild and pbuild? (I thought pbuilder was only useable with deb-src code). My apologies for the many questions, but I want to do things the right way
<azeem> SWAT: no, you cannot
<azeem> both sbuild and pbuilder work on source packages, either local *.dsc ones or deb-src
<persia> SWAT: I make .deb from .tar.gz with sbuild, but there is an intermediate step of making a .dsc.  If you want to go directly, there's currently no recommended solution: try back in six months.
<azeem> what is the solution in six months?
<SWAT> ok, so I have to create a .dsc, but apart from that I can use both sbuild and pbuilder, allright.
<azeem> most people seem to use pbuilder
<persia> azeem: There are a couple people working on building a set of scripts that semi-automates the process.  Something like an intelligent dh_make that uses context to initially populate debian/control and debian/rules with something sane.  It will only work in the minority of cases, but should get 80% of the way, meaning that one can then generate the .dsc, and expect some level of dependency checking, installations, etc. in the resulting .deb.
<azeem> wonderful
<SWAT> sounds good
<persia> SWAT: I recommend using either pbuilder or sbuild, rather than both.  pbuilder is easy to configure, but it a little different than the production build environment.  sbuild is a little harder to configure (although there is a script that does most of it), and more closely mimics the production build environment.  sbuild requires a little more local disk space.
<Mez> who wants to do a bit of reviewing then?
<SWAT> food for thought. Apparently there is still more than one road that leads to Rome
<lamego> I personally found sbuild/schroot easier to setup
<Mez> really? pbuilder works really well for me
<lamego> same with sbuild for me :)
<lamego> but I use it on a semi-automated process, manually I am using schroot / debuild
<persia> Mez: It might be timing.  Was Kees' script available when you set it up?
<wallyweek> so no reviewers online?
<Mez> persia, Kee's scripe?
<Mez> what script ?
<persia> Mez: mk-sbuild-lv.sh from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<lamego> SWAT, in case you are going with schroot, http://wiki.getdeb.net/@api/deki/files/8 <- an helper script I have created
<Mez> nope not touched sbuild ;)
<lamego> mine is not LVM targeted, it uses a file based schroot
 * persia thinks sbuilds post-build cleanup isn't all it could be
<persia> lamego: Why vim, dialog, and cdbs?
<lamego> persia, for interactive troubleshooting, cdbs, because 90% of my packages use it
<persia> lamego: Also, you may want to update to include hardy, or to support other architectures (if the user has them available locally)
<lamego> well, it's just about changing the list on the top :P
<persia> lamego: Shouldn't that be pulled by build-depends?  Also, I'd recommend ubuntu-minimal, which includes an editor.
<lamego> well, it should, i should remove cdbs as a preinstalled package
<lamego> I believe the ubuntu-minimal would increase the schroot size, something which matters during the schoot file decompressing
<lamego> SWAT, also, you should setup some kind of local mirroring for the packages retrieval
<SWAT> a mirror should speed things up indeed, thanks for the reminder
<SWAT> last question for now: might you have a good tutorial for creating dsc files?
<ryanakca> What do you do if a merge is possible?
<persia> SWAT: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide is a work in progress, but contains most of the basics.
<persia> ryanakca: Process it?
<ryanakca> file a bug on launchpad for the package, attach the debdiff and assign *somegroup*?
<persia> ryanakca: Not assign.  Subscribe.  ubuntu-universe-sponsors or ubuntu-main-sponsors
<ryanakca> Ok
<ryanakca> thanks
<ryanakca> And, it's the debdiff to the debian package, correct?
<ryanakca> (not to lastrelease's package)
<persia> ryanakca: Preferably against Debian.  If the orig.tar.gz files differ, you can make it against Ubuntu.  There are some guidelines on choosing the patch type on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<Mez> Hmm, quick question..
<ryanakca> persia: well, different version, 6.0.0 vs 6.0.1 :)
<Mez> seeing as i have to do a manual install,
<Mez> for a multiple binary apckage, should I just install to debian/pacage
<Mez> or to debian/tmp and let dh_install do it's magic?
<persia> ryanakca: You'll want to debdiff against whichever package has the orig.tar.gz you are targeting.
<ryanakca> ok... and... looks like I wasted my time... someone already beat me to it :)
<persia> Mez: I'd recommend dh_install.  Also, you can cheat with non-prefixed paths (e.g. debian/foo.desktop usr/share/applications) which will stick it in the right place (assuming this is in foo.install)
<persia> ryanakca: Always check first.  Also, always file the bug before starting work :)
<Mez> persia, :( dh_install is a PITA though ;)
<persia> Mez: Why?
<Mez> because it doesn't like me ;)
<persia> Mez: Ah.  Personal differences.  You'll just have to buy it sweets then.
<Mez> persia, last time I used it, it wouldnt install ANYTHING that I asked it to, and I empted up with near empty packages (just changelogs!)
<persia> Mez: I recommend not giving it too many directions (unprefixed paths)
<Mez> persia, hmmles... reaslly it should do it's work with .install files and just a call to dh_install ;)
<Mez> but that would be a miravle
<Mez> s/miravle/miracle/
<persia> Mez: Yep.  The maintainer should never need to know whether it's going into debian/tmp or debian/package
<Mez> persia, indeed, but this package is crappy, and will only build to sourcedir/release
<Mez> and no make install
<Mez> so I have to install manually
<persia> Mez: patch the makefile from debian/patches ?
<ryanakca> persia: :)
<Mez> persia, that would just give me too much of a headache
<Mez> specially as I don't really know qmake
<norsetto> night all
<persia> Ah.  qmake.  That's special.
<lamego> there is a qmake cdbs rule
<Mez> lamego, I've never really liked cdbs
<lamego> you loose :P
<persia> lamego: That doesn't help when the qmake files are wrong...
<Mez> lamego, why? I find that debhelper does things better for me
<Mez> persia, indeed
<Mez> and I only use cdbs for katapult ;)
<lamego> neither does a regular packaging rule, when the build system is "broken" ;)
<lamego> Mez, it does the same thing, depend on your know-how, anyway, the best is whatever we use best
<Mez> lamego, *shrugs* I'm used to debhelper ;) I find it more flexible ;)
<lamego> Mez, there are plenty of entry points on CDBS rules, to "plugin" your functions for most of the regular packaging steps
<lamego> is is just a template, it saves you all the "common" work
 * persia claims any way other than DBS + tarball-in-tarball is correct.  Please choose whichever of raw makefile, debhelper, CDBS, etc. makes you most comfortable.
<ajmitch> persia: wrong
<ajmitch> you can never claim that yada is correct
<lamego> well, I think a way which makes your rules file simpler, better for reviewing and maintaining
<azeem> ajmitch: I call azeem's rule
<persia> ajmitch: I can claim anything I want.  Doesn't make it true.  I still think only DBS is the wrong way.
<azeem> whenever a packaging discussion mentions yada, it's over
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I see there was a new release announced on planet debian
 * ajmitch is off for lunch anyway
<imbrandon> azeem, lol
<pochu> Good night
<Mez> persia, fancy doing some REVU'ing?
<persia> Mez: I have to run in a few minutes.  Which upid?  I'll give it a quick look.
<Mez> gimme a sec gotta find out ;)
<Mez> hasnt pushed out yet
<persia> Mez: I may miss it then.  Sorry.
<persia> Mez: On another note, do you still have a source package of nostromo around?  I seem to have deleted mine, and the REVU archive was wiped around the same time.
<Mez> yeah, I do persia
<Mez> what format you want it in ?
<persia> Mez: If you have a chance, would you mind sending me an email :)  .dsc / .diff.gz should likely be enough: I can grab the orig from upstream.
<persia> Actually, thinking about it, only diff.gz is probably enough.
<Mez> persia, email?
<Mez> actually, I'llpush it to my PPA
<persia> Mez: email works, but PPA is easier :)
<persia> Mez: Thank you.
<Mez> persia, pushing now
<Mez> pushed, should appear soon
<persia> Mez: Great.  I'll grab it when I get back.
<Mez> persia, upid = 472
<s1024kb> Good morning everyone!
<s1024kb> Mez: persia is not here? I guess that it's late night for you now?
<Mez> persia is half here, half not, it was a note for when he gets back
<Mez> but if anyone wants to REVU that upid
<s1024kb> Mez: haha, interesting "half". shall i say "good morning" or "good evening" to you?:)
<Mez> good night ?
<Mez> :P
<Mez> (am going bed now)
<s1024kb> Mez: so good night to you!
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-30
<proppy> hi
<proppy> Mez: ping
<Fujitsu> 10:41:06 < Mez> (am going bed now)
<proppy> Fujitsu: too late :)
<proppy> Fujitsu: I noticed he uploaded a package on revu I was working on, maybe we should coordinate a bit :)
<proppy> !log
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<Mez> proppy, mez@ubuntu.com
<proppy> Mez: bug #129081
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129081
<Mez> *shrugs was a personal ptojeect of mine
<proppy> Mez: I just want to share, the very little I've done so far
<proppy> Mez: feel free to take over it :)
<Mez> proppy, i did look over your upload breifly, but it looked very similar to the evil of the svn debian dir ;)
<proppy> Mez: you can take a look at the latest generated package at http://mumble.aminche.com/
<proppy> Mez: mercurial repo here: http://hg.mumble.aminche.com/
<proppy> Mez: yep, it's a mentoring thing, so I take little tiny tiny steps
<proppy> Mez: I've done only what norsetto (my mentor) told me to do on the REVU comments
 * Mez srhrugs sorry if I'm treading on toes ...  
<Mez> but I notices stuff like
<proppy> Mez: so you're likely to be way more faster that me on this
<Mez> $(CURDIR)/debian/mumble/usr/bin
<Mez> sorry
<Mez> 	install -d $(CURDIR)/debian/mumble/usr/bin
<Mez> which can easily be done with *.dirs
<proppy> Mez: and there is plenty of mentorable out there bug I can work one
<Mez> proppy, I#'ll happily let you do it if you want
<Mez> or mentor you
<pyc> hi noob question, hi do I enable the debugging symbols on the package?
<Mez> it's just i put that package together for a project (cause we use it for radio amarok)
<proppy> Mez: I didn't get that far, I was working on the license issue
<proppy> Mez: I thought when I was looking at the upstream supplied rules for the first time, that I wanted to get cdbs qmake a try
<Mez> proppy, not with this - cdbswont handle it i think
<proppy> Mez: I think i've seen you before on #ubuntu-studio,
<proppy> Mez: but I may be wrong
<Mez> possibly
<Mez> I'm always around
<proppy> Mez: btw packaging mumble is not personnal for me, It's my first officially mentored thing
<Mez> ah sorry for stepping on toes then
<proppy> Mez: I will be glad to help you in any case, but my guess is that my speed on this, is not going to meet your expectation
<proppy> Mez: from watching you packaging it, I can learn a lot too
<Mez> proppy, I just put that package together in like - a half hour... didnt really think too mcuh about stepping on toes, it's needed for radio amarok ... so *shrugs*
<Mez> but I need my sleeps
<Mez> night
<proppy> Mez: np have a good night :)
<proppy> Mez: feel free to join the bug report :)
<blueyed> pyc: are you referring to installing -dbgsym packages? Or creating them?
<pyc> creating them, i guess
<pyc> i looked at the rules file
<pyc> and i already exported the "nostrip" in the environment variables
<pyc> but after rebuilding the package, it still has the same file size
<azeem> pyc: how do you build it?
<pyc> probably the basic build? dpkg-buildpackage - b -uc -rfakeroot
<azeem> ok
<pyc> ah ok, let me see, if i have my own problem ;)
<pyc> i commented the dh_strip
<pyc> so that it will not do the stripping, but i'm treading on unknown grounds here.
<blueyed> Does KDE use /usr/lib/mime/packages? It seems to ignore /usr/lib/mime/packages/dia. Does KDE only use .desktop files?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ryanakca> hmm... if you have a "Replaces: libopenbabel1", do you really need a "Conflicts: libopenbabel1"?
<azeem> are you merging openbabel?
<ryanakca> yes
<TheMuso_Boston> ryanakca: Thought of getting them into Debian first?
<azeem> what is "them"?
<ryanakca> ?
<azeem> ryanakca: actually, I think Debian should drop the Replaces as well
<azeem> also, I wonder why the Ubuntu package is 14MB
 * ryanakca shrugs.
<azeem> while the Debian package is less than 3MB
<TheMuso_Boston> azeem: I don't know what Ubuntu changes there are, but this cycle, I am trying to encourage getting changes into Debian first.
<ryanakca> But, am I correct in saying that I don't need a conflicts if I already have a replaces?
<azeem> ryanakca: depends, replaces can just mean "has the same file as this other package"
<azeem> replace/conflicts usually means "install this one in favour of the other", I think
<ryanakca> So, what are you saying. Do I leave replace/conflicts, or just Replaces as in debian.
 * ryanakca is considering just going for what Debian has
<azeem> ryanakca: as I said, I think debian should drop the Replaces as well
<azeem> because, contrary to Ubuntu, there's no file overlap to libopenbabel1 I believe
<azeem> ah, Ubuntu ships the static version of all the plugins
<azeem> ... in the shared library package
<TheMuso_Boston> Ouch.
<TheMuso_Boston> Who made that crackful change?
<azeem> well, maybe Debian did that before as well, don't remember
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1_: I'll get back to you on that review very shortly. Gotta remotely fix a family box.
<azeem> ryanakca: I'll upload a new openbabel to Debian tomorrow, dropping that Replaces, I suggest just syncing that then
<azeem> I hope nothing in Ubuntu was using libinchi
<azeem> ryanakca: indeed, the difference is that on Debian, apt-get install libopenbabel2 will not remove libopenbabel1
<azeem> I assume this is the case on Ubuntu
<ryanakca> azeem: ok
<ryanakca> azeem: thanks
<ryanakca> nixternal: ^^
<g2g591> would anyone mind reviewing my package of tightvnc 1.3.9? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=468
<superm1_> hey TheMuso i just returned if you are still here.
<Hobbsee> superm1_: hows' it going?
<superm1_> hey Hobbsee
<superm1_> pretty good :)
<superm1_> just returned from the pub with the regulars
<Hobbsee> nice :)
<crimsun_> the asagard?
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<superm1_> why aren't you out here this time around?
<superm1_> yeah crimsun_
<Hobbsee> superm1_: i got invoted, but am doing a fairly complex subject at uni (that i'm not liking), so thought i should stay and at least attempt to pass it
<superm1_> ah i see.  well there is always 6 months from now at the next UDS.
<superm1_> hopefully you pass and can make the next one then :)
<superm1_> crimsun_, did you not make it out this evening?
<crimsun_> superm1_: I flew home at 4:30
<superm1_> crimsun_, oh right, i forgot you were leaving today
<tritium> Hi crimsun_, superm1_, Hobbsee, ajmitch.
<crimsun_> 'lo tritium
<superm1_> hey tritium
<ajmitch> hi tritium
<bddebian> Heya tritium, crimsun_, superm1_, Hobbsee, ajmitch... :-)
 * ajmitch sighs
 * bddebian wins
<Hobbsee> hiya tritium, bddebian
<tritium> Hey there bddebian.  Didn't see you there :)
<bddebian> I'm hiding from ajmitch ;-)
<Hobbsee> superm1_: that's what i said - give me an invite in 6 months, and i'll be there!
<ajmitch> bddebian: don't worry, Hobbsee is as well :P
<bddebian> heh
<superm1_> hehe
<tritium> Where will the location be next time?
<superm1_> they haven't announced yet
<superm1_> bryce, you still up?
<tritium> superm1_: great job on mythbuntu :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: another one bites the dust, hey?
<tritium> crimsun_: how's the new job?
<superm1_> bryce, it looks like multi-monitor-config is set to go tomorrow again looking at my schedule?  is that a mistake in the scheduler?
<superm1_> tritium, thanks, glad that its finally hit release :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: excuse me?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: u-u-s.  they're dropping like flies.
<ajmitch> I never did anything, it was an empty membership
<crimsun_> bddebian: heya
<crimsun_> tritium: pretty hectic; had to cut short my UDS stay
<tritium> I can sympathize...
<superm1_> crimsun_, did you sort out that alsa stuff you were rushing earlier today?
<crimsun_> superm1_: yeah
<superm1_> that's good since no one else will touch it for months now... hopefully you didn't break too much ;)
<crimsun_> you'll know if the archive collapses :-)
<bddebian> heh
<gouki> Has anyone ever thought of CIA to #ubuntu-motu? (cia.vc)
<superm1_> gouki, that would probably add a lot of (unnecessary) spam to the channel with how much a lot of use version control systems
<gouki> superm1_: yeah, you're probably right. Just and idea, though :)
<gouki> It's still fun to see development on #commits, superm1_ :)
<Ahmuck> ok, i asked about development of packages once, but could someone point me to the url again?
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<joejaxx> this channel is quiet :D
<Burgundavia> it is the middle of night, Boston time
<Burgundavia> large numbers of active MOTUs are in Boston
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: :P
<TheMuso_Boston> Yet it is approaching mid afternoon in Australia, eastern seaboard.
<ajmitch> yes, but the active MOTUs are in boston, right?
<TheMuso_Boston> ajmitch: Yes, but there are also active MOTUs elsewhere in the world, for example Hobbsee, and persia.
<TheMuso_Boston> BTW, we got to meet crimsun_.
<joejaxx> its ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> joejaxx: no it's not
<joejaxx> ;P
<superm1_> there are other MOTUs then us?
<superm1_> no, couldnt be!
 * bddebian still doesn't know what he is
 * ajmitch knows that he's not a MOTU
<joejaxx> lol
 * joejaxx is not a motu
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1_: Just a comment or two on revu for your package.
<TheMuso_Boston> Since you're here, I may as well tell you.
<TheMuso_Boston> I see you've fixed the cdbs stuff, and added the homepage. I would also add the year of the copyright for the source in debian/copyright.
<superm1_> TheMuso_Boston, okay cool will take care of it, nothing else major right?
<TheMuso_Boston> Which appears to be 2005.
<TheMuso_Boston> Looks fine to me, builds and installs cleanly.
<superm1_> okay thanks :)
<TheMuso_Boston> np
<TheMuso_Boston> I'm off for the night. Night folks, see those of you in Boston tomorrow.
<superm1_> TheMuso_Boston, i'm going to work with siretart to get this and the other plugin into debian too :)
<superm1_> thanks again, see ya tomorrow
<TheMuso_Boston> Np, see you tomorrow.
<joejaxx> B[B?O2A[34;2~ZX"S[33;2~Cccccccc 89;0m9[B[C
<Ahmuck> joejaxx: ?
<joejaxx> sorry _MMA_ was fooling around on my 770
<joejaxx> :P
<white> Fujitsu: how are exams going?
<firefly2442> Is there a page where people can submit suggestions for future packages?
<firefly2442> The package is already in the universe but could use an upgrade to the latest version
<firefly2442> I would try myself but I'm still trying to read through and learn packaging :)
<imbrandon> firefly2442, what package ?
<firefly2442> phpsysinfo
<imbrandon> i'll take a peek at it, i use that myself at times
<imbrandon> normaly you would just use wiki.u.c/IdeaPool
<firefly2442> ok thanks :)
<santiago-ve> imbrandon, speaking about packages... do you know if there's a php compiled to be embedded? (with the --enable-embed option)... i am trying to debianize a plphp install
<white> firefly2442: packaging is overrated, download and compile from source ;)
<santiago-ve> compile a php app? xD
<imbrandon> santiago-ve, no idea to be honest, i only mess with php on the web/server side
<santiago-ve> hmm
<firefly2442> white: I *heart* deb packages ;)
<white> ah well
<imbrandon> firefly2442, i got phpsysinfo 2.5.4 packaged and working, i'll upload it to hardy soon
<firefly2442> imbrandon: wow you're quick! thanks :)
<firefly2442> imbrandon: is the Gutsy phpsysinfo package frozen or only changed for security issues?
<imbrandon> yes, i might be able to push a -backport ( but those arent installed by default )
<firefly2442> imbrandon: do you create the packages by hand or do you use one of the helper programs?
<imbrandon> i just updated the existing package
<imbrandon> but mostly i use cdbs when making new packages
<firefly2442> imbrandon: I'm just curious because I heard there are some that believe doing it by hand is better
<firefly2442> but it makes sense to me to use a tool, just speeding up the process :)
<imbrandon> just a matter of choice
<firefly2442> sure
<imbrandon> if you use a tool you still ned to know what its doing under the hood
<imbrandon> ok uploaded to hardy, should build soonish
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: For values of soon greater than a week.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, hehe yea
<firefly2442> cool, I'll keep working on trying to read up on packaging :)
<firefly2442> bedtime for me, later all
<imbrandon> firefly2442, if you wish i can push the package i built localy to my website if you wish to use it on gutsy personaly
<imbrandon> ok
<Ahmuck> :-p
<imbrandon> hows it hangin Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Not too bad, but I've got exams starting in a couple of days, so not much Ubuntu stuff is happening at the moment.
<Fujitsu> white: ^^
<white> Fujitsu: go offline and study ;)
<Fujitsu> white: Never!
<white> hehe
<imbrandon> i wonder how much breakage dapper --> gutsy would cause
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It should be recoverable, if you really know what you're doing.
<imbrandon> i hate to site though multi upgrades on that machine, i might try it, worst case i have to reload
<imbrandon> well phpsysinfo 2.5.4 seems to work good, http://www.imbrandon.com/phpsysinfo/
<imbrandon> i might try 3.0rc3 in my ppa for giggles, but the templates need to be updated , ugh
<Fujitsu> Oh, you can't be serious. More langpacks.
<imbrandon> ugh cant they be built on a seperate server
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> You'd think so.
<imbrandon> we should have an arch_all server just for building arch_all packages
<Fujitsu> But nooo, there goes another 48 hours of buildd time.
<Fujitsu> Less than 24 hours after the last backlog cleared.
<imbrandon> whats that url to see the queues , not on LP
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, hey
<imbrandon> rember when you made that lpusers.py ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yeah.
<Fujitsu> What about it?
<imbrandon> i'm trying to move it to a new machine and i'm getting ...
<imbrandon> root@lab:~/stuff# ./lpusers.py
<imbrandon> Traceback (most recent call last):
<imbrandon>   File "./lpusers.py", line 47, in <module>
<imbrandon>     users = getMembers('motu')
<imbrandon>   File "./lpusers.py", line 32, in getMembers
<imbrandon>     for td in memberpage.find('h2', text='Active members').parent.parent.findChild('table').findAllChildren('td'):
<imbrandon> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
<imbrandon> am i missing a dep ?
<Fujitsu> It should have failed beforehand if a dep was missing...
<Fujitsu> It's possible some LP change broke it.
<imbrandon> thats what i was thinking
<imbrandon> true, dident think about that
<imbrandon> and are we using ubuntu{,-core}-dev or ubuntu-core-dev and motu ? i can never rember
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: The team pages were redone in 1.1.{9,10}, so that could break it.
<Fujitsu> ubuntu-core-dev and motu.
<imbrandon> k
<Fujitsu> I need to run off to dinner now, but I'll have a look when I get back in 20.
<imbrandon> kk sounds good, still have a copy ?
<Fujitsu> I don't think so, heh.
<imbrandon> k i'll post it somewhere while you eat etc
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<Fujitsu> I don't quite recall why I didn't use +rdf...
<Fujitsu> Anyway, bbs.
<imbrandon> there was no faof:nick in the team rdf
<imbrandon> but there is now, must have landed ( non-edge even )
<imbrandon> sooo i bet we can just redo the whole script
<imbrandon>         <foaf:Person>
<imbrandon>           <foaf:name>Adrien Cunin</foaf:name>
<imbrandon>           <foaf:nick>adri2000</foaf:nick>
<imbrandon> hell infact it looks like the ssh key info is in the rdf now too
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/lpusers.py
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Oh, right, yeah, that was added last release.
 * Fujitsu looks at scraping.
<imbrandon> yea , looks like a total rewrite really, hrm i was thinking about moving the keys also to a diffrent location so it dosent clobber ~.ssh/authotrized_keys too
<imbrandon> on every sync
 * imbrandon thinks
<Fujitsu> sshd won't look at multiple locations, will it?
<Fujitsu> We could possibly grep for it in the file and append it if it isn't there, but that wouldn't kill old keys.
<imbrandon> yea i think it will
<imbrandon> i was just looking that up
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: +rdf even includes members of subteams!
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> i was looking at an email too in the archive, isnt ubuntu-dev now a list of motu + core-dev ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: ubuntu-dev should only have motu and ubuntu-core-dev as members eventually.
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> so we could just lookup one team vs two
<imbrandon> correct ?
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> ubuntu-dev, not motu.
<imbrandon> k , just makin sure i understood that
<imbrandon> yup
<Fujitsu> I'll make it use +rdf now. It's not much of a change, as the SSH key still isn't there.
<imbrandon> yea it only points to the location on the keyserver
<imbrandon> not the actual key
<Fujitsu> That's OpenPGP, isn't i?
<Fujitsu> *it
<imbrandon> but we grab it diffrent anyhow
<imbrandon> huh ?
<Fujitsu> The public key reference there is for OpenPGP, not SSH.
<imbrandon> ohh right , duh
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> still should be much easier with faof:nick now though
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<imbrandon> what were you saying about sub teams now?
<Fujitsu> +rdf includes members of subteams, so we don't have to check both motu and ubuntu-core-dev. Just ubuntu-dev.
<imbrandon> i wonder if multiple AuthorizedKeysFile directives work in the sshd_config
<Fujitsu> No idea.
<Fujitsu> Multiple Ports do, so...
 * imbrandon tests
<imbrandon> hrm dosent look like it
 * imbrandon thinks
<imbrandon> yea its only picking up the first directive
<Fujitsu> Damn.
<imbrandon> there has to be a way arround it, because you can store keys in ldap somehow
<imbrandon> i'm just not finding it
 * imbrandon wishes siretart was arround, i think he knows
<BugMaN> hi all
<imbrandon> heya BugMaN
<imbrandon> ok i'm off to sleep, we can think about this a little more later Fujitsu
<imbrandon> i'll catch up with you sometime tomarrow or so
<imbrandon> cool?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Sure, just finishing working out how to parse the XML now.
<imbrandon> kk, i'm pondering just putting up a "admin" server that runs ldap and hands out auth and pubkeys, there is a patch to make OpenSSH look in ldap for keys
<imbrandon> but that will have to wait untill my eyes arent soo tired
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<Fujitsu> OK
<imbrandon> the script could still be used to sync keys to the ldap config, anyhow i think u see what i'm gettign at
<imbrandon> gnight all
<Fujitsu> Night.
<sebastian^> good morning folks
<huats> morning all
<geser> morning
<s1024kb> Mez: Hello, good morning again, evening here my side.:)
<norsetto> hiya all
<geser> Hi norsetto
<norsetto> morgen geser
<warp10> hi norsetto
<norsetto> warp10: hey, morning
<michele77> hi norsetto
<norsetto> michele77: morning Mr. purple
<s1024kb> norsetto: hello, my teacher
<michele77> norsetto: my name is michele azzolari.. and yes.. i'm using pidgin :-)
<norsetto> s1024kb: morning
<huats> norsetto: morning my friend
<norsetto> huats: hello!
<proppy> hi
<proppy> norsetto: morning sensei
<norsetto> proppy: arigato (I don't know for what, but its the only one I know .....)
<proppy> norsetto:  :)
<proppy> norsetto: I had a brief talk with Mez yesterday
<norsetto> proppy: yes, I saw the upload and revu and your email; what was the problem?
 * Mez wabes
<norsetto> hi mez
<proppy> he needs mumble to be packaged for a kde project :)
<proppy> this is something he was looking forward doing this a long time
<proppy> Mez: correct me if I'm wrong :)
<proppy> Mez: it is for a radio thing ?
<Mez> not really looking forward to, I just needed a package for radio amarok's team so we could chat freely
<norsetto> proppy: well, can't you help mez pack it?
<proppy> norsetto: yep I'll be glad to watch him, and do what he tells me to :)
<norsetto> mez: is that ok by you? I'll be glad if you two work together on this
<Mez> norsetto, It's not a big enough package to warrant two people working on it
<norsetto> mez: yes, the idea is that you would point proppy in the right direction
<proppy> Mez: consider me as an half of one :)
<norsetto> mez: we have no particular attachment to this project to be honest, for proppy was just a way to get his hands dirty with some packaging
<proppy> norsetto: but mez really want this thing done, we way found another project for me to get dirty
<norsetto> proppy: sure we can, if you happy aboout it
<proppy> norsetto: no pb for me, it's just a bit confusing for the upstream,
<proppy> norsetto: to have 3 different people in less that one month working on his package
<proppy> Mez: but you know the upstream well don't you ?
<proppy> norsetto: what about http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/index.php ?
<norsetto> proppy: brb
<proppy> Mez: if you take over it, can you join the bug report and comments about it ?
<proppy> Mez: btw you can still borrow the debian/watch file for my last upload
 * persia grumbles about maintainers who remove functionality rather than adding exception handlers
<Fujitsu> persia: Hah. Who?
<persia> Fujitsu: Hydrogen-drumkits shipped a drumkit that crashed hydrogen.  In Debian, they removed the drumkit.  In Ubuntu, we made it not crash.
<michele77> norsetto: I'd like to get my hands dirty with some packaging... could you help me?
<persia> michele77: I'd encourage you to ask questions generally, rather than asking individuals.  That encourages others to respond as well.
<michele77> persia: ok, thanks!
<Fujitsu> Ah, I see.
<persia> michele77: The next question would be, have you done any patching, or are you completely new to packaging?
<michele77> persia: I've done only one (stupid) patch in libapache-mod-jk
<persia> michele77: If it was accepted, it wasn't a stupid patch.  Perhaps a simple one.  I'd recommend looking for more packaging bugs, and becoming familiar with various packaging practices before making your own package.
<persia> On the other hand, if you really want to try, pick any unassigned bug from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging, and give it a shot.
<michele77> persia: ok, simple patch
<persia> michele77: For packaging patches (rather than complete packaging), https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=packaging is a good list.
<persia> Fujitsu: Do we have anything that runs lintian/linda over everything yet?
<warp10> norsetto: ping
<proppy> Mez: I've deassigned myself from bug #129081, feel free to assign yourself :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129081
<Fujitsu> persia: Not at the moment.
<persia> proppy: Was that going into Debian as well?
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> Unfortunately, I don't have machines with loads of spare CPU time and a local mirror in the same location.
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for MOTU's to review my package on REVU: I currently have 0 advocations : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=easycrypt - thanks
<persia> Fujitsu: These are in different locations?
<Fujitsu> persia: Yes.
<proppy> persia: ?
 * persia is impressed with the implied geographical reach
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<proppy> persia: ah you're right I uploaded it to mentors
<Fujitsu> It would make sense for Canonical to run such checks, but a lot of such things would make sense, so I guess it's not going to happen.
<proppy> persia: but since I didn't assign myself to the bts
<persia> proppy: I thought I remembered something about you submitting mumble to mentors.debian.net.  I'm not sure it makes sense for us to import if it will be sync'd.
<proppy> persia: is there something I can do ?
<persia> proppy: Ah.  Mez is assigned to the ITP?
<persia> Fujitsu: There's a couple QA sessions at UDS.  Perhaps we'll get what we want.
<proppy> persia: dunno who he is assigned to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=429988
<ubotu> Debian bug 429988 in wnpp "ITP: mumble -- Voice chat client" [Wishlist,Open]
<Fujitsu> persia: Perhaps. It's unfortunate that UDS is when I'm meant to be in bed.
<proppy> persia: I'm not I only uploaded the package I was working on, on mentors
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  I liked CET better than EST as well :)
<Fujitsu> Mhm.
<persia> Maybe the next one will be on this side of the globe...
<Fujitsu> One can hope.
<Fujitsu> They've been over there for a while now.
<proppy> persia: what should I do ?
<persia> proppy: OK.  I'm just confused.  it seems like all of you, Mez, and Justin Wray are working on the package, and I'm loathe to push it without some coordination.
<Mez> persia, that's cool I can push myself
<StevenHarperUK> hehe I didn't think that was allowed :p
<persia> Mez: Are you in touch with Justin?  I'd hate to have a painful merge because the packaging was incredibly different.
<proppy> norsetto: bug #158605
<proppy> norsetto: should I file an ITP as well ?
<proppy> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/158605
<persia> proppy: Is that a dependency for anything?  We've already heaps of frameworks :)
<proppy> persia: I'm sure plenty of people will depends on it, once it's packaged: including me :)
<persia> proppy: Ah.  If you'll be using it.  I'm just not a fan of minority GUI & sound toolkits: they tend to acquire bugs :)
<proppy> persia: I'm doing some wiimote stuff with it
 * persia really ought to get one of those
<proppy> persia: be sure to get a bluetooth dongle as well :)
<persia> proppy: Why would I need a bluetooth dongle?
<proppy> persia: I know a few proprietary product that depends on it,
<persia> proppy: And they don't work with system bluetooth or CF bluetooth?
<proppy> persia: maybe I could convince them to open some part of their code if juce is already packaged :)
<proppy> persia: they do, it's just that not everybody have system bluetooth :)
<proppy> persia: my old x40 doesn't :)
<warp10> norsetto: ping
<norsetto> warp10: yes sir?
<persia> warp10: You'll do best to either 1) ask your question generally so anyone can answer, or 2) provide some context when pinging.
 * Fujitsu notes that everybody seems to want norsetto nowadays.
<proppy> persia: let me know if you get one :)
<warp10> norsetto: I've got an answer by the DD for package nicotine (bug: #137279). He's happy with my debdiff
<norsetto> warp10: cool
<warp10> norsetto: he suggested me to report it in the debain BTS so that it can be fixed in the next upload.
<norsetto> warp10: I thought you submitted it already?
<proppy> persia: but beware many of the wii library are reading bluetooth id in a char[16] instead of a char[18], so be sure to turn your stack smashing protection on :)
<norsetto> bug 137279
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137279 in nicotine ""Abort & Delete" button mislabeled" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137279
 * persia defers any purchase, waiting for patch
<persia> Mez: upid 473 commented
<norsetto> warp10: ok, I see you haven't , yes, send a bug to the bts with the patch attached pls.
<warp10> norsetto: no, I didn't. Do you thing I should send the same debdiff I attached to the LP bug report?
<warp10> *think
<norsetto> warp10: what patch system is being used in nicotine, if any?
 * persia notes that Debian generally prefers target patches to debdiffs, even when no patch system is in use
<warp10> norsetto: no idea
<siretart> imbrandon: yes?
<proppy> persia: already reported http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1820140&group_id=187194&atid=920320 :)
<ubotu> Gaim bug 1820140 "Wiiuse-0.7: Stack overflow at io_nix.c:114" [Pri: 5,Closed fixed]
<norsetto> warp10: well, check it! becuase your debdiff doesn't use any
<proppy> persia: he applied my patch :)
<persia> proppy: That looks fixed.  Why not grab the fix, and apply it to our package?
 * Hobbsee waves
<norsetto> hi Hobbsee
<persia> Hi Hobbsee
<TheMuso_Boston> persia: Any reason why you didn't get those hydroen changes into Debian first?
<Hobbsee> hiya norsetto, persia
<Fujitsu> Evening, Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu
<proppy> persia: strange it's not a gaim bug !
<persia> TheMuso: hydrogen drumkit trimmed in Debian in July, hydrogen use/set fix written in October.  Patch is in BTS.
<TheMuso_Boston> ok good to hear.
<proppy> persia: wiiuse seems not packaged
<persia> TheMuso_Boston: I always intend to get things back, but I don't yet have a working time machine :)
<TheMuso_Boston> persia: Ok fair enough.
<siretart> imbrandon: what do you need multiple AuthorizedKeysFile directives for in the sshd_config?
<proppy> hi Hobbchi
<Fujitsu> siretart: He was considering splitting the keys got from LP and user-specified keys, so they wouldn't be overwritten.
<warp10> norsetto: looks like no patch system is used at all
<fernando> moin all
<norsetto> warp10: ok, then just provide your debdiff, alternatively you can cut only the two last patches
<warp10> norsetto: ok. Should I file against the package or the source package?
<norsetto> warp10: in this case there is 1 source and 1 binary with the same name ....
<norsetto> warp10: you can check this link for reporting bugs to debian http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<norsetto> warp10: there is also a package available, reportbug or something like that. I've never used it myself though.
<norsetto> warp10: you may want to include some ubuntu user-tags, let me fecth a link for you
<norsetto> warp10: here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debian/Usertagging
<warp10> norsetto: ok! Thanks for the links. I'll take care of everything
<norsetto> warp10: ok, re. uploading your patch to ubuntu, personally, I would wait for the debian fix to be synced back
<warp10> norsetto: ok! Once the bug is reported in Debian BTS, is it a good idea to link it in the LP bug report?
<norsetto> warp10: definetively!
<norsetto> warp10: its a MUST ;-)
<norsetto> warp10: otherwise we come to you during the night and haunts your dreams ....
 * warp10 thinks he will double check everything...
<norsetto> warp10: I've got good news
<warp10> norsetto: I like good news!
<Fujitsu> persia: I'm seeing what I can do about getting a lintian check running regularly... it shouldn't be too CPU-intensive once the initial run is done, I guess.
<persia> Fujitsu: If you have the cycles to spare, that'd be great.  It be neat to have a handy URL to which to point people who ask "I'm new to packaging: where can I start".  Thank you.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I can imagine it'll take at least a couple of days to get through everything initially. Fortunately, it keeps track of what has changed.
<persia> Fujitsu: A couple days?  I was thinking a week or two.
<Fujitsu> persia: We'll see.
<proppy> persia: Is there some kind of dashboard out there pointing +need-packages +sync-request +outstanding-merge entry, with wiki page attached to them ?
<persia> proppy: I encourage you to ask questions generally.  That aside, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO is what we have.  The General tasks section points to the items you mention.
 * persia is amused that we already have 6 "updated merges"
<proppy> persia: thanks (should I also thanks generally ?) :
<proppy> :)
<Zero_Dogg> Not quite sure if this is the right place, but I'll give it a try. I'm looking to get an app I've written packaged for Ubuntu. I don't have any previous deb-packaging experience, though I have extensive rpm-packaging knowledge. What are the submission guidelines for Ubuntu? Ie. should everything just be submitted upstream to Debian instead?
<persia> Zero_Dogg: If it goes into Debian, it will go into Ubuntu.  You may also package directly for Ubuntu.  At this point in the development cycle, we encourage packaging for Debian, so as to benefit a wider audience.
<persia> There is a work-in-progress guide to packaging available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/.  It doesn't include everything, but gies an overview, and has links to most of the right places.
<Zero_Dogg> persia: yeah, I guess I could try Debian. Any quick guide to packaging anywhere or a program that helps do it? Only thing about Debian is that last I checked they where crazy strict, and packaging this on my own for Deb might not go through :)
<persia> Zero_Dogg: We're likely even more strict when it comes to new packages :).  I find that lintian and linda are great tools to track down issues with policy.  Try reviewing the link I listed earlier: you're welcome to ask here if you have questions.
<Zero_Dogg> persia: right. Do you know of any perl packaging policy? My app ships with a bunch of private perl module (not used by anything else)
<persia> Zero_Dogg: Google tells me http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/perl-policy/ch-perl.html
<Zero_Dogg> persia: thanks
 * Fujitsu watches a heap of multiverse packages fail lintian checks miserably.
<persia> heh
<norsetto> fujitsu: I asked nxvl to coordinate with you and/or asac bug 137993. I hope you don't mind?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137993 in mplayerplug-in "mozilla-mplayer unnecessarily depends on gecko browsers" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137993
<norsetto> Fujitsu: perhaps there are some other simple fixes that you may want him to add too.
<Fujitsu> norsetto: I haven't dealt with the plugin much.
<norsetto> Fujitsu: well, do you think about addiing xulrunner as a dependancy makes sense?
<Fujitsu> `whatevergeckoappsitdependsonnow | xulrunner' seems to make sense, yes.
<norsetto> Fujitsu: right, thanks
 * norsetto --> lunch
<huats> gouki: are you around ?
<azeem> ryanakca: openbabel_2.1.1-2 is in Debian incoming now
<mruiz> hi bluekuja
<bluekuja> hi mr_pouit
<bluekuja> aw
<bluekuja> mruiz,
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> mr_pouit, wrong ping sorry :)
<mruiz> hahaha
<bluekuja> too much rush
<bluekuja> :P
<mr_pouit> ^^
<warp10> Hi all
<bluekuja> mruiz, need something?
<mruiz> bluekuja, sure! Do you have time to guide me with a merge?
<bluekuja> mruiz, yes
<bluekuja> mruiz, have you decided a package to start with?
<mruiz> bluekuja, fetchyahoo
<bluekuja> mruiz, already pinged previous uploader?
<superm1> mr_pouit, would you give a glance over the other NEW plugin I uploaded on revu before I would upload it?
<mruiz> bluekuja, I downloaded the files with grab-merge.sh
<mruiz> bluekuja, I was the previous uploader :-)
<bluekuja> mruiz, fine then :)
<bluekuja> mruiz, open a merge bug
<bluekuja> mruiz, assign it to you, and give me the id
<mruiz> bluekuja, but we don't know about the procedure results: merge or sync
<mr_pouit> superm1: the bzr branch seemed ok yesterday (too bad there's an upstream debian dir). Did you change something?
<superm1> mr_pouit, no i didn't change anything, just didn't see an ack from you.  Would you add an ack to revu then for history's sake?
<superm1> and i'll upload it
<mr_pouit> superm1: yeah of course, as soon as I find my password :p
<mruiz> ping bluekuja
<bluekuja> mruiz, yes, check that then
<bluekuja> mruiz, and report to me when done
<bluekuja> mruiz, from the patch looks like a merge
<mruiz> bluekuja, I have to know "how to read" a patch :-)
<mr_pouit> superm1: done
<bluekuja> mruiz, let me check the changelog
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1: Congratulations on that huge downloads milestone.
<TheMuso_Boston> I saw it on the fridge.
<bluekuja> mruiz, It seems the only Ubuntu entry is your one
<superm1> TheMuso_Boston, actually that was a few days old, we're a few thousand above that now.  Thanks :)
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1: Well nevertheless, congratulatoins.
<bluekuja> mruiz, about that new upstream release
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1: Are you staying for the larger livefs session?
<superm1> TheMuso_Boston, i was in theory supposed to be in packaging-tools-usability
<bluekuja> mruiz, with the breezy one
<TheMuso_Boston> Right.
<bluekuja> mruiz, another upstream release
<superm1> although hm that could be of interest too.
<bluekuja> mruiz, is that right?
<mruiz> bluekuja, the latest version is 2.11.2. What we have to do in this cases: merge and a later upstream update ?
<bluekuja> mruiz, let's see if it needs a merge :)
<mruiz> bluekuja, Debian version is 2.10.8-1 and the latest Ubuntu version is 2.10.8-0 (mine) :-)
<bluekuja> mruiz, yes, do you know something about my $spoolName?
<bluekuja> mruiz, the patch adds some modifications to fetchyahoo/fetchyahoorc files
<bluekuja> mruiz, +spool = /var/spool/mail/local-user-name
<bluekuja> -spool = /var/mail/local-user-name
<bluekuja> mruiz, but I can't find any reference about it
<bluekuja> mruiz, in the changelog
<mruiz> bluekuja, I'm following the changes...
<bluekuja> mruiz, understood a bit what I mean?
<bluekuja> mruiz, you should see it...
<mruiz> bluekuja, yes
<bluekuja> mruiz, fine, any explanation for that?
<bluekuja> mruiz, you did a new u-r and debian updated the package some time later
<bluekuja> mruiz, we should ask a sync for that, but those changes not documented
<mruiz> bluekuja, I'll ask to the debian maintainer about this changes
<bluekuja> mruiz, stop us from doing that
<bluekuja> mruiz, yeah thanks, it would be great :)
 * mruiz is adding this task to his TODO
<bluekuja> mruiz, let me know
<mruiz> bluekuja, ok
<mruiz> bluekuja, can we try with other package ? :-)
<bluekuja> mruiz, yes, but I wont be so responsive
<mruiz> bluekuja, why ?
<bluekuja> mruiz, I'm doing some other stuff
<bluekuja> :)
<mruiz> hahaha :-)
<bluekuja> ^^
<mruiz> bluekuja, see you tomorrow then :-) Thanks for your time
<ScottK2> Any objections to adding a requirement to motu SRU policy that debian/changelog entry include a user friendly description of the change?
 * proppy hugs dholbach
<bluekuja> mruiz, :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: please also include a change saying "remember to breathe"
<zul> hey dholbach
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, lol
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: Sure.
<Hobbsee> apparently, some people need really basic instructions, adn dont use common sense.
 * dholbach hugs proppy back
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: other good candidates would be "write changelogs in english",  "it's hardy, not gutsy", "don't upload binaries to the ubuntu archive", etc.
<ScottK2> Heh
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: Don't upload it if you don't have some idea if it works or not too.
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: that too.  "test before upload"
<sistpoty|UDS> hi folks
<bluekuja> heya sistpoty|UDS
<sistpoty|UDS> hi bluekuja
<bluekuja> sistpoty|UDS, how is UDS going?
<sistpoty|UDS> bluekuja: good so far... first session of the day is just running
<sistpoty|UDS> and it's very interesting to actually meet people in person *g*
<bluekuja> hehe, I know. I hope next UDS will be done in Italy
<sistpoty|UDS> hehe
<proppy> bluekuja: me too
<bluekuja> :)
<proppy> bluekuja: cause it's not that far from france :)
<bluekuja> proppy, lol
<bluekuja> proppy, Rome would be a nice city for the UDS
<sladen> bluekuja: listen in!  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Boston/Participate
<bluekuja> sladen, great!
<bluekuja> sladen, thanks for the link, now connecting^^
<sistpoty|UDS> I hope there are no streams from the restrooms *g*
<bluekuja> lol
<methods> hi...
<methods> so this is where the ubuntu activists live
 * Hobbsee peeks out of her cave
<methods> so how do i get involve d?
 * Hobbsee points at topic
<Hobbsee> (sorry, doing other bits too)
<methods> go it ...
<sistpoty|UDS> btw. there was a funny mail on the motu ml, assuming that motu was a person
<TheMuso_Boston> Hobbsee: I would think Bed would be weighing on your mind right now...
<Hobbsee> TheMuso_Boston: thinking about it.
<ScottK2> methods: The best way is dive in, get to work, and ask questions as you have them.
<methods> llol get to work on what ?
<ScottK2> methods: What do you want to work on?
<sistpoty|UDS> later folks
<ScottK2> methods: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO is sort of our list, but ultimately it has to be stuff you want to do.
<methods> idk man ... just wondering what your all doing... how the community works...
<methods> you guys got any groups in nyc ?
<ScottK2> methods: Sorry,  I'm in the middle of our developer sprint right now, so don't have time to discuss.
<CyberMatt> Hello
<proppy> hi
<proppy> is there a way I can cd to a particular directory before the build rule of cdbs makefile.mk is called ?
<norsetto> proppy: why would you want to do it?
<ScottK2> norsetto: Some packages hide their makefile in odd spots
<ScottK2> proppy: I'm pretty sure you can, but with cdbs, you need to read the source to figure out how.
<norsetto> fujitsu: do we need to add hardy in the bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file tag?
<norsetto> fujitsu: in the info message I mean: distribution should be one of _hardy_, gutsy, feisty, edgy, dapper, breezy, hoary
<shishir> hi
<shishir> how can i help ubuntu i know c and c++ html and related stuff
<shishir> hello
<shishir> anybody home??
<Pici> !participate | shishir
<ubotu> shishir: To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<shishir> i am a total newbie for everything.. i am still doin my graduation..
<shishir> does it matter??
<jpatrick> shishir: no, I haven't even left school
<shishir> then how what to join and what to do..
<shishir> guys this is my first live project participation
<jpatrick> see the webpage :)
<shishir> i am seein
<shishir> i clicked on development
<shishir> as it saya i will need a mentor..
<jpatrick> shishir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<shishir> what do you suggest i should join for developing??
<jpatrick> no idea, only you know what you're good at
<shishir> a begginer is equally good at everything..
<shishir> that he is no good!!
<shishir> mentor help u personally?/
<jpatrick> we are all constantly learning
<shishir> ya bro thats a fact
<sacater> forgive my question but has the hardy whatever out yet?
<norsetto> shishir: where does it say that you need a mentor?
<sacater> sorry, has the hardy testing series started?
<jpatrick> sacater: yes
<sacater> :o
<shishir> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate/developerzone
<shishir> it says here
<sacater> :
<sacater> :o*
<shishir> well i am still not gettin wht to do guys
<norsetto> shishir: where?
<sacater> *gets lappy ready*
<shishir> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate/developerzone in this link
<shishir> Ubuntu is developed through an open community process. Anyone with the necessary technical skills can contribute to the development of Ubuntu. If you want to learn, you can find a mentor within the development team to help you along.
<norsetto> ah!
<shishir> no what to do.. i need some initial guidance
<sacater> er
<sacater> you want a mentor?
<shishir> i am actually a web developer but wanna add a live project on my resume
<sacater> ah
<sacater> cool
<shishir> ya i need a mentor.. till i get wings!!
<sacater> what kind of work are you into
<jpatrick> shishir: maybe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment ?
<sacater> 'developer' means anything
<shishir> creating web pages using html.. presently using CMS stuff
<shishir> heard of EXPONent??
 * jpatrick "develops" only cos it's what he likes best and it's fun :)
<norsetto> japtrick: yes, when you don't set me as the maintainer ;-)
<jpatrick> norsetto: yeah, sorry, I corrected that - forgot to edit that out
<norsetto> shishir: the page jpatrick gave you is an excellent start, pleasee read it to have an idea what "development" means for ubuntu
<shishir> reading
<norsetto> jpatrick: no need to be sorry, it was fun to see I became the maintainer of knight, kind of reaching knighthood
<jpatrick> hehe
<shishir> well thats fine now.. but where do i fit in the senario..
<shishir> i am not a MOTU neither a coree  developer
<shishir> i mean core
<jpatrick> shishir: you move up the stages bit by bit, first MOTU then core
<shishir> ok fine then i should register as a motu to some mailing list??
<norsetto> shishir: do you understand what being a motu is? It fits with your goal to "add a live project" to your cv?
<jpatrick> shishir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
<shishir> well its not just adding..
<shishir> i like ubuntu.. and wann become a linux dev or a dbms dev still confused so wanna try ahand at both..
<shishir> jpatrick: that page has nothin
<jpatrick> no, the link on it, sorry
<shishir> hey i think i will need a mentor with private communication.. any1 wanna help me out in this??
<proppy> norsetto: back
<norsetto> bug 151530
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151530 in wine "user's profile shell folders should symlink to $XDG_XXX_DIR" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151530
<norsetto> proppy: welcome back
<shishir> help
<jpatrick> shishir: patience is virtud
<shishir> no takers??
<shishir> am i askin so dumb questions??
<shishir> ok then bye guys
<shishir> what else can i do
<jpatrick> shishir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor
<proppy> norsetto: about the cdbs make class, juce need to change to build/linux directory before calling make
<proppy> norsetto: I figured how to do this without the makefile.mk class
<proppy> norsetto: enjoy http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/a18fc2f96039
<CyberMatt> I uploaded a package to revu two or three weeks ago and it hasn't gotten reviewed yet is this normal
<shishir> ok guys i hope i will get someone to help me out
<shishir> bye
<tuxmaniac> when does a debian sync request gets approved? bug 135492
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135492 in libitpp "Update to latest version in Ubuntu" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135492
<jpatrick> CyberMatt: which package?
<CyberMatt> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=inspircd
<tuxmaniac> can somone please Ack it?
<jpatrick> CyberMatt: package is not in Debian or Ubuntu, why the big changelog?
<CyberMatt> cus i kept introduceing bugs fixing them
<CyberMatt> and i like to be detailed in these things
<CyberMatt> should it be smaller
<jpatrick> these are like, different uploads to revu?
<CyberMatt> ?
<jpatrick> I would just do: 1.1.13-0ubuntu1 and "* Inital release"
<CyberMatt> ok
<jpatrick> -0ubuntu1 because it is not in Debian
<CyberMatt> ah
<jpatrick> CyberMatt: and I would also create a patches/ dir in debian/ and put any changes you do to the source there
<CyberMatt> ok
<jpatrick> diff -Nurp yourchanges.file orig.fil > ubuntu_01_fixblah.diff
<CyberMatt> its only like one two lines in a makefile but i guess so
<jpatrick> it later stops clashes with Debian with different .orig.tar.gz's
<CyberMatt> could also update to the latest upstream while I'm at it
<CyberMatt> there always doing new rel
<CyberMatt> s
<CyberMatt> why was there a line break there
<CyberMatt> oh well
<jpatrick> CyberMatt: in the long desc. try and keep the line not go past 80 spaces - for people in the console mode
<CyberMatt> question because the bug fixes were minimal in the upstream can i just do a diff from the upstream and apply it to my package
<norsetto> proppy: have you tried to still include the makefile.mk and just do the cd in another target?
<norsetto> proppy: beside, wasn't there a make option to do that .....
<CyberMatt> don't really feel like trying to track down the makefile bug again
<jpatrick> CyberMatt: if they have an tarballs it would be best to grab those
<proppy> norsetto: I don't know how to cd, since I'm not inside the makefile.mk, and make execute each command in a new shell
<CyberMatt> ok
<proppy> norsetto: makefile.mk has a variable for specifiing the path of the Makefile
<jpatrick> all you have to do is cp the debian dir across
<proppy> norsetto: but it is not usefull here, cause you have to cd build/linux && make, make -f build/linux/Makefile doesn't work
<proppy> norsetto: but maybe there is another option I'm not aware of, let's man
<norsetto> proppy: I just saw that lately, let me try to remember where
<jpatrick> CyberMatt: the only thing that should be in the diff.gz is what's in the debian/ dir
<CyberMatt> had modify a makefile to get it to install in the right dirs
<jpatrick> CyberMatt: make a patch and put it into debian/patches ( https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ps-chap.html )
<CyberMatt> ok done
<proppy> norsetto: I love you
<proppy> norsetto:      -C dir, --directory=dir Change to directory dir before reading the makefiles or doing anything else.
<mruiz> hi all. I want to merge a package... I have selected the package (gproftpd) and I downloaded the related files
<norsetto> proppy: yes, thats the one, just found it too :-)
<joejaxx> mruiz: did you ask the original merger if you could do it? :)
<joejaxx> hello norsetto
<norsetto> hiya joejaxx
<mruiz> joejaxx, I did the last Ubuntu update :-)
<joejaxx> mruiz: ahhh :)
<mruiz> Can someone guide me trough the merge process ?
<joejaxx> sistpoty|UDS: :D
<sistpoty|UDS> joejaxx: *g*
<CyberMatt> now to check if it still builds after all that
<CyberMatt> alright package is up
<CyberMatt> when will it show that i changed it
<CyberMatt> revu that is
<geser> siretart: just curious: shouldn't bug #158318 and bug #158319 be covered by the auto-syncs?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158318 in sauerbraten "please sync version  0.0.20070819.dfsg-1 from unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158318
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158319 in sauerbraten-data "please sync version 0.0.20070819.dfsg-1 from unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158319
<siretart> geser: they should, but aren't obviously, I'll ask pitti later about that
<Skiessi> can someone update libtorrent10 and rtorrent packages of the hardy repository?
<geser> Skiessi: hardy is currently in auto-sync mode, I assume it gets synced by the archive admins after UDS (which is right now)
<Skiessi> ok
<sistpoty|UDS> !SRU | sistpoty|UDS
<sistpoty|UDS> yum ubotu
<peppych> hi all, are there any unattended-upgrades master out there ?
<peppych> I'm wondering how it react when it tries to update an package which doesn't fit his update policy ?
<peppych> I'm not sure if it's the right place to ask this so sorry if not ;)
<proppy> norsetto: ok this is weird
<proppy> norsetto: In the root source directory
<proppy> norsetto: calling make -C build/linux work like a charm
<proppy> norsetto: but once I had make -C build/linux CFLAGS="" it bombs
<norsetto> proppy: you mean just adding CFLAGS will not work? Can you upload the package somewhere?
<proppy> it uploaded somewhere :)
<proppy> norsetto: http://juce.aminche.com/
<norsetto> proppy: also, remember to pass CFLAGS as CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)"
<norsetto> proppy: btw, if its autoconfigure usually you pass CFLAGS to configure
<proppy> norsetto: I can give you ssh access
<proppy> norsetto: all the build dep are here
<proppy> norsetto: let's copy from lp*.aminche.com
<norsetto> proppy: just tell me if the diff.gz and .dsc are up to date
<proppy> norsetto: they are
<norsetto> proppy: what has the rules in this package to do with what you are asking!?
<proppy> norsetto: if you look at makefile.mk implementation
<proppy> norsetto: you will notice that DEB_BUILDDIR is passed as an argument of the -C make option
<proppy> norsetto: make -C DEB_BUILDDIR
<proppy> norsetto: so I was able to reproduce the behaviour outside of the debian scripts
<proppy> norsetto: by calling make by hand
<proppy> norsetto: btw  ssh root@juce.aminche.com -p 1922
<norsetto> proppy: I still don't understand what is the problem. Is this rules not working, but if you do it manually with make -C it does?
<proppy> norsetto: exactly
<proppy> norsetto: and the difference between the 2 call are the CFLAGS option added
<norsetto> proppy: what about this: mkdir -p "$(DEB_BUILDDIR)" in the builddir target?
<norsetto> proppy: sorry, makebuilddir target (its in buildcore.mk)
<proppy> norsetto: I feel unconfortable buy override DEB_BUILDDIR
<proppy> norsetto: I don't know what are the side effect elsewhere in cdbs
<norsetto> proppy: right now I'm not so sure you can use DEB_BUILDDIR
<proppy> norsetto: so maybe I should revert http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/3d713b5f2197
<nxvl> hi all
<norsetto> proppy: see this in buildvars.mk: DEB_BUILDDIR ?= $(strip $(DEB_SRCDIR)) ?
<nxvl> norsetto: did you se kevin's answer?
<norsetto> nxvl: yes, did you see my comment on the bug report?
<nxvl> norsetto: nop, i have had not check my mail yesterday, i have had a long and heavy work day :(
<norsetto> nxvl: thats good, it builds character ;-)
<nxvl> norsetto: yes, y REALLY love my work
<nxvl> but it has some really hard days sometimes
<LaserJock> hmm, how are people handling the versioning of building for different releases with PPAs?
<norsetto> proppy: anyhow, what do you keep trying to use cdbs? Once you get off the beaten track its worse than debhelp (I think)
<norsetto> proppy: look how long it takes to just do a bloody simple passing of a -C option to make .....
<proppy> norsetto: I'm just afraid of 20+ debhelp command I don't know about
<persia> LaserJock: I see a lot of ~usernameQ strings, for incrementing Q
<proppy> norsetto: but maybe after maning each of them I will feel confident
<persia> LaserJock: Sorry: missed context.  Perhaps ~usernameQ.Y.MM to include the release date?
<LaserJock> yeah perhaps
<LaserJock> looking though the PPAs I see lots of different versioning
 * ajmitch hasn't built for separate releases
<LaserJock> sometimes people have it exactly as you would in the Ubuntu archives
<LaserJock> but that will mess up building with different releases
<persia> LaserJock: That's just plain dangerous: not only is it hard to be release-specific, but it's nigh-impossible to reupload to Ubuntu (at least until the sync issue is better addressed)
<LaserJock> asac seems to have 0ubuntu0<release>~ppaX
<Fujitsu> norsetto: Oops, missed that, thanks.
<LaserJock> firefox - 2.0.0.8+0dfsg~beta2-0ubuntu0.6.10~ppa2
<LaserJock> what a mess
<norsetto> Fujitsu: np
<LaserJock> hmm
<persia> LaserJock: My memory is that firefox uses the -0ubuntu0.Y.MM notation for SRUs, so it may be related to that.
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> but that also will have problems
<persia> LaserJock: Why?
<sistpoty|UDS> hi LaserJock and persia
<LaserJock> hmm
<persia> sistpoty|UDS: Hi.
<asac> its used for security updates as well ... the ~ppaX is used to ppa preview/beta packages so i get feedback before pushing these dangerous updates out
<LaserJock> what happens when you upload  -0ubuntu0.7.10~ppa1 to gutsy and then -0ubuntu0.7.04~ppa1 to feisty
<LaserJock> with it take the second upload?
<LaserJock> *will
 * persia thinks $(acceptable target Ubuntu version)~$(hint)$(index) should always be safe.
<asac> thats fine ... 0.7.10 is always higher than 0.7.04
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but you're uploading the higher first
<LaserJock> will it separate them properly?
<Fujitsu> PPA doesn't version-ratchet.
<asac> yeah ... but since one goes to gutsy and the other goes to feisty its fine
<Fujitsu> And I doubt it ever will, between releases.
<asac> they don't clash
<LaserJock> ah, ok
<persia> LaserJock: PPA isn't smart enough to cause that problem
<Fujitsu> persia: That feature is coming soon.
<Fujitsu> 1.1.12, IIRC.
<norsetto> proppy: try this: DEB_BUILDDIR = $(DEB_SRCDIR)/build/linux
<LaserJock> so as long as the versions aren't identical then I should be fine
<persia> Fujitsu: Ummm...  How should it be done then?
<asac> its the same in the official archive btw
<LaserJock> asac: sure but the official archives are separate repos
<Fujitsu> persia: I suspect it won't ever version-ratchet between different releases, but we'll see.
<LaserJock> although I guess it's the same pool
 * persia hopes that getting smarter in terms of versions is linked to getting smarter in terms of releases
<asac> LaserJock: ppa is pretty much the same as theofficial repos ... all share the same pool
<asac> you just have to take care that you only include the same orig.tar.gz once
<persia> asac: Doesn't that cause an issue if I upload a ~ppa firefox?
<asac> i am not sure but i would guess that if you first upload to gutsy and then to feisty you need to build for feisty with -si
<proppy> norsetto: same pb
<proppy> norsetto: it failed at compile time
<norsetto> proppy: before the include?
<proppy> norsetto: nop
<asac> persia: aeh ... one pool per user/team ... if that is what you ask
<proppy> norsetto: same if I put it before
<asac> and yes ... if you do your own firefox build and come up with a different orig.tar.gz that has the same version it might be confusing at least
<persia> asac: Right.  That makes sense.  I was confused by "all share the same pool".
<norsetto> proppy: well, its working for me: /usr/bin/make  -C ./build/linux CFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CXXFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CPPFLAGS="" LDFLAGS=""
<proppy> norsetto: it failed trying to find some error
<proppy> norsetto: on ssh ?
<persia> asac: No worries: I'm not likely to PPA firefox :)
<norsetto> proppy: thats the way the make command its executed; no, local
<proppy> norsetto: root@juce:/home/www/juce-1.45# /usr/bin/make  -C ./build/linux works
<ScottK2> persia: Compared to PPAing ooo 3 times, firefox would be nothing.
<LaserJock> alright, well I screwed up my first upload, but I think I can fix it later
<proppy> norsetto: root@juce:/home/www/juce-1.45# /usr/bin/make  -C ./build/linux CFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CXXFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CPPFLAGS="" LDFLAGS=""
<proppy> don't
<proppy> norsetto: yep I've seen that it's the way cdbs call make
<persia> ScottK2: Sure.  For packages that complex, with dedicated people working on them closely, sending patches after local sbuilding makes more sense.
<ScottK2> persia: The comment wasn't random though, someone did that last week,
<persia> ScottK2: I well remember :)
<persia> (At least two of the three FTBFS in 30 minutes or so)
<LaserJock> hmm
<ScottK2> OK.  It's been a busy week here so far.
<LaserJock> it looks to me like the PPA buildds are not building anything
<proppy> norsetto: it works for you for juce or for another package ?
<norsetto> proppy: juce, you are missing a builddep on cdbs btw
<cyberix> I packaged a piece of software and I'm currently planning to submit it to REVU, but first some questions.
<cyberix> If the package is advocated by MOTUs and it gets included in Ubuntu.
<cyberix> Can I then post updates to it?
<LaserJock> through a sponsor sure
<imbrandon> cyberix, sure as long as you go through a sponsor ( untill you our self becomes a MOTU )
<persia> cyberix: Yes, although any changes must go through a review queue.  For small patches, you'll ask for sponsorship of the patch.  For big changes (new upstream, etc.) you may need to re-REVU
<cyberix> So I will have to post each update through a sponsor unless I'm a MOTU myself?
<imbrandon> yes
<imbrandon> any MOTU can be a sponsor though
<cyberix> The sponsor is a MOTU and advocating the package is equal to being a sponsoR?
<imbrandon> yes
<persia> cyberix: The process is fairly simple.  Just create a bug, attach the patch, and subscribe a team.  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing discusses the patch preparation and sponsoring process under "Preparing New Revisions".
<proppy> norsetto: fixed thanks
<cyberix> This makes me feel I'd like to make the package perfect so I'd never have to touch it after being included.
<cyberix> I know this sounds wrong
<norsetto> proppy: also you don't need build-essentials as a build-dep
<persia> proppy: linda can help with these, as can lintian :)
<LaserJock> cyberix: well, it's good to have a good package to start with ;-)
<cyberix> I'm talking about additions
<persia> cyberix: We'd prefer that, but it's known to be impossible :)
<LaserJock> cyberix: but after a package has made it into Universe it's much easer to make changes
<proppy> norsetto: I need g++ instead ?
<cyberix> e.g. an added man page
<cyberix> It doesn't make the package suck
<persia> cyberix: There need to be man pages for everything prior to inclusion
<proppy> persia: yep, I've not produced binary yet, could I run lintian/linda  on source package ?
<LaserJock> how do I get the error code? i.e. to check --compare-versions otput?
<norsetto> proppy: no, build-essential is part of the base installation
<persia> proppy: Yep.  Just run it on the .dsc
<superm1_> LaserJock, i usually do a quick shell script that checks it in an if block
<cyberix> persia: Even when the original software doesn't have?
<persia> LaserJock: dpkg --conpare-versions foo bar || echo Failed!
<LaserJock> cyberix: no but it can make using the program suck if there's no man page
<superm1_> persia, you need a foo OP bar actually
<persia> cyberix: Yep.  That's part of the maintainer's job: to fix the upstream oversights, and send the patches back.
<persia> superm1_: Right.  It's been a while :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Speaking of lintian: a full run over multiverse took just under an hour on this really bad machine, so universe shouldn't take longer than about 48 hours.
<cyberix> LaserJock: Yes, but in mycase command line is not really used.
<superm1_> persia, i only know because i had to use it earlier today :)
<cyberix> I'm just thinking it might be nice to add such extra comfor
<cyberix> t
<proppy> norsetto: ok
<LaserJock> cyberix: then it should have a very simple man page
<LaserJock> :-)
<persia> Fujitsu: Cool!  Will this be on the same site as debcheck, or somewhere else
<cyberix> :-P
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: we should have a lintian.ubuntu.com or something
<persia> LaserJock: Yes, but that requires DC access.  debcheck, rcbugs, mdt, etc. all belong there as well.
<LaserJock> well yes
<LaserJock> I think we need to change that
<proppy> persia: thanks
<imbrandon> wow can anyone else make heads or tails about what the guy on -motu ML is asking ?
<Fujitsu> persia: It's on another machine, but the result will be synced to the same server.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: which one?
<proppy> norsetto: so only deps to cdbs + debhelpers for the building part ?
 * cyberix just packaged Progress Quest ( http://progressquest.com/ )
<cyberix> I think asking for a man page is a bit much
 * Fujitsu thinks we need something like debian.net.
<cyberix> ;-)
<proppy> norsetto: I guess cdbs also depends of debhelprs
<cyberix> Don't you :-)
 * persia considers bumping https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-July/001826.html with updated URLs
<imbrandon> LaserJock, the one from jose.biscaya@gmail.com
<bddebian> Heya gang
<norsetto> proppy: yes + whatever library is needed by that particular software
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
<persia> Fujitsu: The closest we ever cam was ubuntuwire, but there seemed to be a succession of HW failures :(
<persia> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya persia
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<Fujitsu> Hm, I guess the domain is still around.
<bddebian> persia: I just stuck a new version of boswars in svn.  It seems to be working well so I hope we upload
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<LaserJock> imbrandon: oh yeah ... that one
<imbrandon> persia, we're working on getting ubuntuwire back arround, its just taking soem time and planning
<LaserJock> well
<persia> bddebian: Cool!  I'll take a deeper look at the other stratagus scenarios this weekend: perhaps we can drop them.
<imbrandon> so this dosent happen again
<Fujitsu> He appears to be asking us how to code using some random library.
<persia> imbrandon: Understood, and no pressure.  Thanks for what was and will be.
<LaserJock> I think that people.ubuntu.com at least could have this stuff
<bddebian> persia: Yeah, apparently stratagus was just the engine which is dead upstream but is now integrated in the boswars packages
<persia> LaserJock: p.u.c is easier: just poke an employee
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I don't think rookery would like having debcheck and lintian much - they're fairly CPU-intensive.
<Fujitsu> In the case of debcheck, very.
<LaserJock> well, whatever
<LaserJock> but there's clearly a need for such things
<persia> bddebian: Right.  Just in the interest of preserving user experience, I want to make sure that all the other scenarios based on stratagus 2.1 are dead / broken.
<LaserJock> even if we run stuff locally and then copy over the results
<imbrandon> persia, a employee of what? ubuntu employs no one :) if you mean canonical maybe it should be people.canonical.com :)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: You'd think so, but apparently not.
<persia> imbrandon: Hasn't that debate already happened on the mailing lists?  I agree, but it's legacy.
<LaserJock> yes
<cyberix> Please "re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring, which grants [s/]you[/me/] upload rights to REVU."
<LaserJock> and there was some work being done on it last I saw in the thread
<imbrandon> persia, it has but untill its changed there is no debate, its pretty dry and cut
<ScottK2> LaserJock: The work is finished
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: What happened?
<ScottK2> Changed urls from upid to sourcepackage name, so the per package url is now stable in REVU.
<LaserJock> I thought they were going to set up an LP sshkey authentication thingy like imbrandon had for ubuntuwire
<LaserJock> no cron access though
<imbrandon> LaserJock, no idea, they are? that would be nice
 * persia thinks that would be nice
<Fujitsu> No cron? WTF?
<imbrandon> crontab -e is hard to restrict
<LaserJock> don't you guys read your mail??
<persia> Fujitsu: no cron isn't that bad.  Run local cron, and put it.
<Fujitsu> I guess.
<persia> LaserJock: which list?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Where?
<LaserJock> -devel
<LaserJock> I emailed the CC
<imbrandon> LaserJock, where ?
 * persia didn't see it
<LaserJock> bah, gimme a sec to find it
<imbrandon> me neither
 * Fujitsu sees the thread.
 * persia requests a rough date range
<Fujitsu> But I don't think I saw the final result, or maybe I didn't think it memorable.
<Fujitsu> persia: Late September.
<Fujitsu> Oh, right, that.
<imbrandon> ???
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's not a `we are going to'
<Fujitsu> No shell access, hm...
<imbrandon> sshkey but no shell , umm
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Like bazaar.launchpad.net.
<LaserJock> yes
<imbrandon> so we would push content there how? bzr ?
<imbrandon> sftp?
<LaserJock> sftp
<persia> sftp works fine, or scp
<LaserJock> it's just basically storage space
<LaserJock> we can petition harder I guess, but that's what I got
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that's what it seems to say.
<LaserJock> the good news was that the CC seemed open to the idea
<LaserJock> mako and mdke anyway
<imbrandon> thats all and good , but when .... heh
<Fujitsu> I don't see why they can't have something like Debian does. Heck, even the LoCos have some people with shell access, and we should be implicitly more trustworthy.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Neither of them are Canonical employees.
 * LaserJock calls a strike!!!!
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: so?
<persia> OK.  For tools, is there anything we want other than: 1) debcheck, 2) lintian/linda, 3) rcbugs, 4) mdt, 5), universe-problems.txt, 6) occasional piuparts runs, 7) occasional rebuilds (w/upload)
<Fujitsu> persia: With upload? I can't see that happening in the next few years.
<Fujitsu> If we had a proper binNMU process, possibly.
<Fujitsu> But even then..
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Right.  Hrm.  How to recognise things that need a rebuild...
<Fujitsu> persia: Yeah, exactly.
<norsetto_> proppy: I think I got it
<Fujitsu> What do we want the uploading rebuilds to achieve?
<persia> Fujitsu: e.g. when there is a change in build tools, or a new feature (icon caching, etc.) it would be nice to have everything catch up.
<proppy> norsetto_: you're right, maybe I should just use debhelper
<Fujitsu> Right, not sure what to do about that.
<cyberix> Can I somehow check, if I've been added into the REVU keyring?
<norsetto_> proppy: its not a cdbs problem
<norsetto_> proppy: actually, it is and it isn't ....
<persia> cyberix: It takes a while to sync, and it's really hard to check (it's easier to just sync again).  Once you've asked for a sync, wait a bit.  If one of the admins is around, they'll annouce they are syncing.  If nobody gets back to you, wait ~6 hours, and ask again.
<imbrandon> i'll sync int now
<imbrandon> it*
<norsetto_> proppy: are you with me or wandering as usual?
<LaserJock> norsetto_: ;-)
<proppy> norsetto_: wandering ?
<norsetto_> LaserJock: <rolling eyes>
<proppy> norsetto_: hey that's my word :)
<proppy> norsetto_:  To move about without a definite destination or purpose.
<cyberix> imbrandon: May I just try running dput once in a while?
<norsetto_> proppy: did you see what I said?
<proppy> norsetto_: yep it's not a cdbs problem
<LaserJock> cyberix: he'll tell you when he's done
<persia> cyberix: Just wait.  imbrandon will announce when it's complete
<imbrandon> cyberr i'm running the sync now, give it ~30 miutes
<norsetto_> proppy: ok, look at the crappy upstream makefile
<proppy> norsetto_: it's generated from a lua script if you wonder :)
<norsetto_> proppy: you see how they define CPPFLAGS ?
<proppy> norsetto_: it's only a proxy for JUCE.make
<proppy> :=
<norsetto_> proppy: there is a variable that is passed to make, called LINUX
<proppy> norsetto_: it means CFLAGS has to be unassigned
<norsetto_> proppy: if LINUX=1 then it will use the linux headers
<proppy> norsetto_: yep
<norsetto_> proppy: but, since you assign it, that variable is not set,and the compilation fails as it is looking for MAC headers ....
<proppy> norsetto_: my guess is that there is a lot of #ifdef LINUX in the code
<proppy> norsetto_: yep
<norsetto_> proppy: indeed
<proppy> norsetto_: so s/:=/+=/
 * ScottK2 shuts down to leave UDS....
<proppy> norsetto_: should do it ?
<cyberix> imbrandon: Ok. Thanks.
<proppy> ScottK2: have a good flight
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: Aw, why?
<ScottK2> Fujitsu: Not funded to be here.  Two days is enough fun for free.
<norsetto_> proppy: so, either pass LINUX=1 to make yourself, or try to use the crappy configure used by upstream (the lua stuff ....)
<proppy> norsetto_: that's why we get a different behaviour only if we assign CPPFLAGS before calling make
<proppy> norsetto_: that's logic !
<ScottK2> Going out to dinner tonight with my brother that lives nearby and then going home in the morning.
<ScottK2> proppy: Thanks (train actually though).
<norsetto_> proppy: yes, so, I would try the first one, just to check if we are correct, and then lets include their configure script to do it properly
<proppy> norsetto_: thanks a lot
<Fujitsu> ScottLij: Aha.
<Fujitsu> Bah.
<LaserJock> lol
<proppy> norsetto_: you mean including the configure script to get CPPFLAGS +='ed ?
<norsetto_> proppy: yes, but first lets try to pass LINUX=1 directly, without messing with the configure stage
<proppy> norsetto_: thanks for the help
<norsetto_> proppy: np, but this isn't going to be easy ;-)
<norsetto_> proppy: you may want to check some of the stuff in Makefile and JUCE.make already, for instance I see thinks like DEBUG and RELEASE etc.
<proppy> norsetto_: yep I noticed that, there is a lot of variable to get set before actually calling the make rule
<norsetto_> proppy: well, we will come to that, now lets just check what happens if we pass LINUX=1 to make
<proppy> norsetto_: let me check
<norsetto_> proppy: I think you should just set CPPFLAGS to LINUX=1
<proppy> norsetto_: I was thinkin about patching JUCE.make to make a +=
<norsetto_> proppy: we may need that at the end, but lets just try passing this thing first, to make sure we are right
<proppy> norsetto_: /usr/bin/make  -C ./build/linux CFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CXXFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CPPFLAGS="LINUX=1" LDFLAGS=""  -k clean
<proppy> m
<proppy> norsetto_: same pb
<norsetto_> proppy: right
<norsetto_> proppy: using DEB_OPT_FLAG ?
<proppy> norsetto_: http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/fec2ed41d9fa
<proppy> norsetto_: but if I call /usr/bin/make  -C ./build/linux CPPFLAGS="LINUX=1"
<proppy> norsetto_: I get the same error
<norsetto_> proppy: manually you mean?
<proppy> yep
<norsetto_> try with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS += LINUX=1
<proppy> either defining the CPPFLAGS outside (manually) or inside rules
<proppy> ok
<proppy> norsetto_: same pb
<proppy> norsetto_: http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/3ad313db0d7d
<norsetto_> proppy: ok, in any case, its something like this which is causing the error
<proppy> norsetto_: ok thanks for the input
<proppy> norsetto_: I will dig that up
<norsetto_> proppy: try deleting the @ from the make call so that at least we get an echo to check
<proppy> norsetto_: btw there is something I should work on: you managed to call it manually and I don't
<norsetto_> proppy: I also think we have another problem, there is no premake in ubuntu
<davf_> Anyone can help me. I just need to recompile zd121rw because I had to apply a patch. Is it possible to just compile that module?
<davf_> sorry zd1211rw
<proppy> norsetto_: btw the way it is called
<proppy> norsetto_: there is no way that JUCE.make get the CPPFLAGS
<proppy> norsetto_: it's called from another make
<norsetto_> proppy: we have a bigger problem right now
<proppy> norsetto_: If they're not in the environment I guess they are not passed
<proppy> norsetto_: do we really need to regenerate Makefile ?
<norsetto_> proppy:either that or we have to patch it
<proppy> norsetto_: my guess it that he use premake only for syntax sugar
<proppy> norsetto_: not really for configure business
<proppy> norsetto_: ho I guess I figure out what you mean
<norsetto_> proppy: with this: DEB_MAKE_ENVVARS := "LINUX=1" ?
<proppy> norsetto_: patching generate file is evil
<norsetto_> proppy: we need to do it sometime
<proppy> norsetto_: same
<proppy> let me try something :)
<cyberix> The documentation says I should run "dput package-version_source.changes"
<cyberix> However my package is like package_version_source.changes
<cyberix> Do I have a bug somewhere?
<cyberix> ..., or is it a bug in the documentation, or are both ways correct?
<imbrandon> cyberix, key sync finished, also you want to `dput revu *_source.changes"
<imbrandon> not litterly * but fill it in
 * cyberix hold his breath
<imbrandon> and no its a bug in the doc's
<cyberix> s/hold/holds/
<imbrandon> you are correct
<imbrandon> where exactly in the doc did you see that i'll try to get it changed asap
<imbrandon> we have tons of doc's could be refering to anything
<cyberix> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<imbrandon> cyberix, kk
<cyberix> Contribute as an Uploader
<cyberix> Uploading it
<proppy> norsetto_: I will try call JUCE.make directly
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: revu is the default in dput.cf.
<cyberix> There it is now -> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<cyberix> I hope I did everything right
<cyberix> :-)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea but its always best to get into good habbits
<Fujitsu> True.
<imbrandon> :P
<cyberix> Atleast when it comes to the process
<imbrandon> wow the wiki is uber slow or its my connection
<proppy> norsetto_: CXXFLAGS := $(CFLAGS) this is also a problem :)
<norsetto_> proppy: what happens if you pass CFLAGS=Â¨Â¨?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: LP is Slashdotted.
<warsocket> hello, got a question, does software need to be stable alpha or beta before its allowed into the universe?
<Fujitsu> And I think fridge was Dugg or so.
<imbrandon> ahh
<warsocket> Im busy with a project myself and im trying to find my way around, thats why i ask
<imbrandon> ok wiki updated cyberix, thanks for the catch
<proppy> norsetto_: http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/9b709cf3c0d9 works for me
<imbrandon> warsocket, mostly we try to stick with stable , there can be exceptions though
<proppy> norsetto_: the pb was that cdbs do define CXXFLAGS so all the CPPFLAGS and CFLAGS define get ignored because of the :=
<cyberix> No, thanks to you for doing the keyring stuff and guidance
<proppy> norsetto_: and since this is C++ only CXXFLAGS is used in the end
<norsetto_> proppy: yes, thats whats in all the targets
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, whats LP /.'d for? or was it a figure of speach ?
<proppy> norsetto_: so the only way we can do it, is by setting CXXFLAGS
<proppy> norsetto_: because of the :=
<proppy> norsetto_: It's the less intrusive solution I see
<norsetto_> proppy: practically, we are by-passing the whole upstream piece of "well crafted" makefile ....
<imbrandon> oh wow ubuntu-demon caused this
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yeah.
<Fujitsu> With his million-and-one blog posts.
<norsetto_> proppy: we would have to pass this -MMD -D "LINUX=1" -D "DEBUG=1" -D "_DEBUG=1" -I "../../" -I "/usr/include" -I "/usr/include/freetype2" -O2 -g -D_DEBUG -ggdb -Wall
<proppy> norsetto_: only the FLAGS definition part
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, <rolls eyes>
<imbrandon> heh
<proppy> norsetto_: and also report modification every time upstream update it ?
<norsetto_> proppy: just have to make sure what all these DEBUGS flags do, if they are used to printf for instance
<norsetto_> proppy: yes, with that makefile system you are at his mercy
<proppy> norsetto_: /usr/include/ft2build.h:56:38: error: freetype/config/ftheader.h: No such file or directory
<proppy> p
<proppy> norsetto_: you're right :)
<proppy> norsetto_: so it *is* related to cdbs actually
<proppy> norsetto_: if we control the way we call make
<proppy> norsetto_: and don't rely on cdbs for this
<proppy> norsetto_: we are free "not to define" CXXFLAGS and then get value from the Makefile
<proppy> norsetto_: right ?
<norsetto_> proppy: don't know, we can try
<superm1> Fujitsu, fridge got dugg for mythbuntu mentions today
<Fujitsu> superm1: Ah.
<Fujitsu> So, the DC is taking a few requests.
<superm1> yeah a few
<superm1> are they both in the same DC though?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: that doesn't matter when ubuntu is sneaking in at night & strangling your hard drive
<Fujitsu> Yeah, but generally different connections.
<proppy> norsetto_: that's what I've done with http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/a18fc2f96039
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Ah, true.
<proppy> norsetto_: what do you think ?
<cyberix> Btw, is there some proces which guarantees that my package will finally be reviewed by some-one, or do I have to actively look for reviewers?
<norsetto_> proppy: if I were you I would go for debhelper, but thats just me
<imbrandon> cyberix, imho its best to actively look but on the same hand not pester
<norsetto_> proppy: I found cdbs its a waste of time but for the simpler packages
<imbrandon> there are "REVU days" but thats no garentee for "your [package"
<imbrandon> see what i mean ?
<proppy> norsetto_: can you help me to get past my fear of 20 x dh_* line I don't know a clue ?
<proppy> norsetto_: read the man ?
<proppy> norsetto_: copy a working example, or generate it with dh_make ?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, btw dapper --> gutsy is a huge mess, i'm still recovering that compter in the background
<norsetto_> proppy: whats the problem? its just a makefile
<cyberix> imbrandon: Would finding a mentor make any sense?
<zul> imbrandon: thats why its not supported
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Lovely. We've got a bit of work to do, then.
<imbrandon> cyberix, if you ultimate goal is to become a MOTU yes, if this is just a one off package no
<proppy> norsetto_: and don't know which helper to call when ?
<norsetto_> proppy: let me give you an example
<imbrandon> zul but i tried it because we DO support dapper --> hardy and we got to start someqwhwre
<cyberix> K. Have to think about it.
<zul> imbrandon: ah i see
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea mostly the python 2.4 --> 2.5 issues AND sysinitv --> upstart issues
<imbrandon> but tons of other smaller ones too
<norsetto_> proppy: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rutilt; at least I know what is in there
<proppy> norsetto_: dget http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10129897/rutilt_0.15-0ubuntu6.dsc don't work
<proppy> norsetto_: but I will look the diff.gz
<norsetto_> proppy: man debhelper is a good starting point, after a while you will remember them all by heart
<proppy> norsetto: ok
<proppy> norsetto: the binary-arch is scary for now
<norsetto> proppy: its pretty simple actually
<norsetto> proppy: you see, the first two are testing (that you are in the right dir and that you are root)
<proppy> norsetto: once you know what all the dh_ thing make, I definitly agree that the beat-them-all modular approach :)
<norsetto> proppy: than you have the installation of some bits (manual, changelog, etc.)
<proppy> norsetto: testdir is in each rules
<norsetto> proppy: its pretty standard stuff
<proppy> norsetto: let me try to output a one
<proppy> one
<norsetto> proppy: you can also look at the scripts to understand them better, they are much more readable than cdbs
<norsetto> proppy: and you have man pages for each one of them
<proppy> norsetto: yep
<norsetto> proppy: I believe that time spent now to learn this is an investemnt that will repay
<proppy> norsetto: yep I guess so
<norsetto> proppy: anyhow, its time for me to go
<proppy> norsetto: have a good night
<norsetto> g'night all
<Fujitsu> Night norsetto.
<proppy> norsetto: thanks for all the mentoring today
<norsetto> proppy: bonne nuit ... a demain ;-)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-31
<soto> Can anyone interpret this backtrace? http://www.pastebin.ca/755913
<soto> I'm trying to debug a problem with nautilus. gdb keeps telling me that the program received SIGSEGV in gconf_client_remove_dir, but the process doesn't terminate, even after I detach.
<soto> (keeps telling me that it received SIGSEGV whenever I try to 'continue')
<persia> soto: Have you looked in /home/soto/nautilus-debug-log.txt ?
<soto> persia: No such file
<soto> What happens if a SIGSEGV signal handler seg faults?
<persia> soto: You might check nautilus-debug-log.c, line 508 to see if 'xxxxx' is hardcoded.  It looks like there is an issue removing the file, but the error handler is crashing whilst trying to report the issue.
<persia> soto: It's just a SIGSEGV.  It needs to either be trapped, or the code written defensively, so it cannot happen.
<persia> (e.g. check to make sure that the filehandle is valid prior to attempting to write)
<soto> persia: If the code was badly written would it infinite loop?
<soto> 'xxxxx' is not hardcoded: It is a redacted user name.
<persia> soto: I'm not sure what you mean.  One could conceivably write a recursive exception processor that was broken, and could loop, but recursive exception processing is rare.
<persia> soto: I'd look either at nautilus-main.c:213 or nautilus-debug-log.c:508.  I suspect one of those lines arranges the circumstances that cause nautilis-debug-loc.c:446 to fail.
<soto> persia: I'm trying to speculate as to the cause of a bug. In GDB, whenever I trying to 'continue' the process it SIGSEGVs, but the process does not terminate. So it seems to me that the program is handling SIGSEGV in some way that causes an infinite loop
<persia> soto: Nautilius is a main-loop application.  It tries to do the same things over and over again each cycle (as I understand it).  As such, when you continue, it notices it is having some problem and tries to write to the debug log.  It segfaults writing to the log.  GDB halts execution.  You type 'continue'.  Nautilius notices it is having a problem, and tries to write to the debug log.  It segfaults writing to the log.  GDB halts execution...
<soto> persia: Okay thans
<soto> thanks*
<persia> soto: If you can fix the problem writing to the debug log, the debug log ought to show you the problem that was happening removing the file.  At this point, you should be able to fix the thing that is bothering you :)
<joejaxx> jdong: ping
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: Hello :D
<Hobbsee> hiya!
<RAOF> Heya Hobbsee.
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<RAOF> I wish I could replace my students with automata.  I could quickly whip up a python script to answer these tests much better than they have :(
<persia> RAOF: But could your python script also complain about the marking later :)
<RAOF> No.  I don't see this as a downside :P
<joejaxx> lool
<RAOF> Plus, finite-state-machines are cool.
<proppy> night
<ajmitch> bddebian: getting the love going in #d-d again?
<joejaxx> bryyce: ! :P
<bryyce> hiya joejaxx
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> bryyce: hey i just witnessed the blurry screen using the ati driver on gutsy
<joejaxx> :P
<bryyce> take a photo?
<joejaxx> i can show you tomorrow
<joejaxx> it is reproducable
<bryyce> ok
<joejaxx> w/in 314
<joejaxx> bah
<ajmitch> 314?
<ajmitch> crazy
 * persia thinks elkbuntu is expressing something sneakily, and sends well wishes
<elkbirthday> :Ã
 * elkbirthday hugs persia
<bddebian> ajmitch: Heh, always :-)
<ajmitch> elkbirthday: is it someone's birthday?
<elkbirthday> ajmitch, i think it is. not a clue whose though
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> quite puzzling
<joejaxx> elkbirthday: hapy birthday :D
<joejaxx> happy*
<elkbirthday> joejaxx, thankies :) i wish i could be there in boston for it, but we cant win em all :)
<joejaxx> elkbirthday: you are most welcome :)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> mneptok: what a way to show your love
 * mneptok regreases his spanking hand and sidles ominously toward ajmitch 
<Fujitsu> /win/win 23
<Fujitsu> Grr, not again.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: :P
<pwnguin> is there a script to ubuntu-ize a package? ive been bringing things into my ppa by hand, but i imagine a script would do it closer to correctly than I do
<Hobbsee> beyond dh_make?
<pwnguin> i mean a debian sync
<RAOF> You mean "sync a package from Debian into your PPA"+
<RAOF> You mean "sync a package from Debian into your PPA"?
 * RAOF sucks.
<pwnguin> sure
<RAOF> Isn't the only change needed s/unstable/hardy/ on the top changelog entry?
<RAOF> That surely can't be onerous, or particularly difficult to script.
<pwnguin> ive also been placing them in universe
<RAOF> Ah.  Yes, of course.
<pwnguin> but i havent really paid attention to how it "should" be done, so i donno what all the script might do ;)
<RAOF> Hm.  You know that icedtea build I started in here some 3 or 4 days ago?
<pwnguin> not done?
<RAOF> Got it in one
<joejaxx> LaserJock: !! :D
<pwnguin> that has to be a pounce
<joejaxx> pwnguin: ?lol
<LaserJock> joejaxx: hi
<LaserJock> persia: that is one awesome email
<LaserJock> persia: but you should have sent it to ubuntu-devel as well
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock
<Fujitsu> RAOF, pwnguin: You no longer need to put PPA packages them in universe - ogre-model overrides as if everything were multiverse now.
<Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch and Fujitsu
<persia> LaserJock: I agree that ubuntu-devel should do the same things, but I'm less convinced that ubuntu-devel needs immediate volunteers for the 5 activities on the bottom.  Also, there are some UDS sessions, likely focused on main, which should produce something interesting.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, excellent!
<pwnguin> whats the point of ogre model then?
<bddebian> persia: Nice e-mail :)
 * ajmitch should probably volunteer for something
<bddebian> ajmitch: Make me some not from source and FTBFS scripts.  I suck at that part ;-)
<persia> ajmitch: You're welcome to do so, but you already maintain and host the rcbugs list (thank you), so you've less excuses to make if you don't :)
<bddebian> Actually I suck at pretty much everything :-(
 * ajmitch is now demotivated by bddebian's suckiness & won't volunteer :P
<bddebian> doh ouch
<persia> bddebian: For not-built-for-Hardy, you just need to parse the hardy-changes archive.  Grab the subjects, and match against Sources.gz.  The deadline for having something working isn't until February, so you've some time to play.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, you should.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you speak!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, i type!
<persia> Hobbsee: So which one do you want? :)
<ajmitch> oh
<Hobbsee> persia: none at all :P
 * ajmitch goes back to his cave
 * bddebian goes back to take more abuse from Debian
<persia> ajmitch: Before you get there, how is the progress on the next revision of the RC buglist?
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: Well, it allows the PPA to build against itself, etc.
<LaserJock> persia: but that email is of interest to *all* developers
<LaserJock> -devel is not just for Main
<bddebian> It isn't?
<LaserJock> no
<ajmitch> persia: it's not progressing
<LaserJock> mdz has said that over and over
<LaserJock> -motu is supposed to be fore motu-specific stuff only
<LaserJock> I think we should try to leverage main and Canonical resources as much as possible :-)
<LaserJock> at least they have valuable input
<persia> LaserJock: Hmm..  I guess I misunderstood.  I thought -devel was for main, and MOTU was for universe.  I'll be sending another (similar) email around DIF, and will definitely include ubuntu-devel for that missive.
<LaserJock> yes, please do
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Can you convince your colleagues that they want to run their magic problem- and outdated-checking scripts over the entire archive?
<persia> LaserJock: Well, there was some effort to coordinate with DC resouces for Gutsy, but it didn't come to anything.  I was hoping that more community efforts would get us the tools: where they are run is a more soluable problem than that they should exist.
<LaserJock> persia: also Debian people and potential contributors are probably more likely to read -devel
 * ajmitch even had a completely separate implementation of mdt
<Fujitsu> Bah, who has moderation rights over -motu ML? I sent using the wrong address again.
<persia> LaserJock: Good points all.  I shan't so restrict the audience in the future.
<ajmitch> its main flaw was that it didn't produce pretty looking webpages :)
<LaserJock> persia: yes, but if Canonical's got handy scripts or knowledge we shouldn't waste it
<persia> ajmitch: If you want to host your implementation instead of MDT, that'd likely be almost as good.
<LaserJock> I find guys like cjwatson and pitti to be enormously helpful
<LaserJock> I've got a bzr branch of mdt
<LaserJock> I just don't have it hosted anywhere
<ajmitch> persia: yeah, I have some spare space on a virtual server that I may push things onto
<Fujitsu> I've had mdt running over {un,mult}iverse for about a year now, as I said in my email which is stuck in the moderation queue.
<bddebian> heh
<persia> LaserJock: Agreed.  I asked them about the ftp-master stuff for Gutsy, and was advised it was trivial to port, but required a local mirror.  I've pointed at the code, but I don't have the mirror.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you should probably bribe someone to let the mail through
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: MC.
<persia> Fujitsu: publically?  That's excellent.  I'm sorry I missed it.
<Hobbsee> i'd do it, but i've not been asked to
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: MC?
<Hobbsee> motu council
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Can you please let it through?
<Fujitsu> What about them?
<Hobbsee> [15:21] <Fujitsu> Bah, who has moderation rights over -motu ML? I sent using the wrong address again.
<LaserJock> persia: right, so we need a list of specific things we need, as you've already got a great start on, and then get the word out to get people/resources
<Hobbsee> as in, i'd help with the moderation, but i've not been asked to
<Fujitsu> Oh.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: doesn't it give you a chance to cancel?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hm, true, forgot about that.
 * Fujitsu does so.
<LaserJock> that's what I do
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  That's what the last section was about.  I figured that anyone who read the whole thing was interested, and would be likely to volunteer to contribute something.
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I read the whole thing
<bddebian> Ohh boswars looking pretty good..
<ajmitch> hm, massive quoted email on -motu
<persia> LaserJock: So you want one?  (B) is easy, if you have a local mirror.
<persia> bddebian: You are familiar with Emily Post, no?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I'd let it through, but I have to find the password first
<bddebian> persia: Sounds familiar but I cannot place it
<LaserJock> persia: hmm, I do have a local mirror of universe and main
<persia> bddebian: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/emily-postnews/part1/
<ajmitch> and I find that you already killed it...
<ajmitch> oh well
<LaserJock> persia: I might also be able to work on A) depending on what it's going to involve
 * ajmitch wanders off home
 * Hobbsee dumps a whole lot of rain on ajmitch
<bddebian> persia: And which of those am I supposed to read?
<persia> LaserJock: From what I can tell, LP has the information for each package.  I just can't find a URL that exposes it.  It's 100% LP coordination: to get LP to tell us not only what failures ever happened, but for which packages the last version FTBFS.
<LaserJock> persia: right, I'll have a talk with kiko and see what we can come up with
<persia> LaserJock: That'd be great.  Thanks.
<LaserJock> seems like we need some web hosting :/
<LaserJock> I can run lots of stuff, but I'm not sure I have bandwidth to maintain a frequently used list
<persia> bddebian: I may not be able to count, but I think #16
<persia> Anyone willing to volunteer to host LaserJock's output?
 * Fujitsu can stick things in a few places, depending on how much processing they need.
<Hobbsee> *drool*
<Hobbsee> Lots of wireless drivers being merged: 3945/4965
<Hobbsee> no l-u-m for .24, presumably!  yes!
<Fujitsu> We have .24 now?
<Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Hardy/KernelVersion
<Hobbsee> no
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Hobbsee> but we will for hardy,b ased on this stuff
<Hobbsee> means kernel testing is nice - working wifi each time :)
<Fujitsu> Ah, so that page actually exists now.
<Hobbsee> Use Cases
<Hobbsee> Booting your computer
<Hobbsee> haha :)
<LaserJock> hmm, can anybody explain to me what .la files are and why we aren't supposed to ship them?
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> Because static libraries are evil.
<bddebian> persia: Just tell me the issue please, I'm really not in the mood for reading through that drivel..
<persia> LaserJock: We disapprove of static libraries.
<Fujitsu> bddebian: It's probably that you quoted the entire mail.
<persia> bddebian: long quoted post, short reply.  Poke meant humorously.  No worries.
<pwnguin> static libaries are where you take the library code and bundle it with the executable in a way the system cant see
<pwnguin> LaserJock: they're bad because you cant share static libraries among binaries
<Fujitsu> And because you need to rebuild things for updates.
<LaserJock> ok, so a .la is a static library?
<Fujitsu> Security nightmare.
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<LaserJock> and a .so is a shared library?
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<persia> LaserJock: Well, it's linking information for a static library
<pwnguin> LaserJock: so each gnome applet, if built statically, would combine into massive RAM requirements
 * LaserJock shows his library ignorance
<RAOF> .la isn't acutally a static library, though, right?  It's some libtool craziness pointing to shared libraries?
<RAOF> Kinda like pkg-config files, but less safe?
<persia> LaserJock: quick summary: static libraries are compiled inline.  Gain of about 1% in speed.  Requires local copy in RAM for each included library.  dynamic libraries are available separately in the system.  Only one copy goes to RAM.  security updates go to the library, and clients get the benfits.
<slangasek> no, a .la is not a static library
<slangasek> a .la is a libtool metadata file
<persia> RAOF: Yes.
<RAOF> Wooo!  I remember some libtool craziness!
<keescook> slangasek beat me to it, but .a is the static lib
<LaserJock> ah, k
<slangasek> it happens that on glibc systems, this metadata is only *useful* with static libraries; but "static libraries are evil" isn't the reason they're bad
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<slangasek> the reason they're bad is because they have bad effects when doing *dynamic* linking
 * RAOF *didn't* know that.
 * persia sits attentively for library class
<pwnguin> oh yea, combinining static and dynamic builds is a pita
<LaserJock> ok
<slangasek> persia: that's about all I intended to say at the moment, most people don't really care about the details of what they do wrong in the dynamic linking case :)
<LaserJock> so are the static libraries included in the binary?
<LaserJock> what happens if there are both static and dynamic "versions" of the library?
<persia> slangasek: Do you happen to have a reference to the implications of .la files on dynamic linking.
<RAOF> LaserJock: Depends on what the binary is built against.
<pwnguin> LaserJock: you wouldnt normally use both..
<RAOF> LaserJock: If the binary statically links to a library, then it just plain ignores any other version of the library lying around.
<slangasek> LaserJock: when doing static linking, library code is copied into your binary, yes
 * persia finds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_(computer_science)
<RAOF> So you get to play the fun "libz has a security fix.  Let's rebuild everything that statically links against it" game.
<slangasek> persia: afraid I don't; my best reference for it was a paper I wrote for DebConf 4, which I think later went up in smoke in a Debian server failure
<LaserJock> bummer
<persia> slangasek: Ah.  Sorry to hear that.  Thanks anyway.
<LaserJock> anybody have a suggestion on figuring out if files are being installed at build time, but not installed into the .deb?
<LaserJock> I have a package that has a .install which includes quite a bit
<RAOF> dh_install --list-missing?
<LaserJock> but I just built the package and it's missing a library
<bddebian> persia: NP, thanks, sorry, it was a quick reply-to.. :)
<bddebian> Anyway, gnight folks
<LaserJock> and I'm wondering what else it's missing
<persia> sleep well bddebian
<bddebian> Thx
<RAOF> LaserJock: Or even --fail-missing
<LaserJock> RAOF: huh, that looks quite handy
<RAOF> LaserJock: It turns out that debhelper is *full* of things that are quite handy when building packages :)
<LaserJock> who would've thunk it?
<RAOF> Crazy, I know.
<pwnguin> RAOF: unless you want udev
<pwnguin> then its just a gordian knot
<pwnguin> "Q: How do you use dh_installudev?" "A: You don't."
<persia> slangasek: http://debconf4.debconf.org/talks/dependency-hell/index.html ?
<slangasek> persia: yes, that looks like it. :)
<pwnguin> I need a psychic: what was the name of the package i installed to limit dput uploads?
 * persia has seen useful application of dh_installudev
<LaserJock> persia: is there a script for automatic lintian/linda available?
<slangasek> persia: so the html isn't lost, just the OOo original, fair enough
<persia> LaserJock: Fujitsu's already chasing that.
<pwnguin> oh, slangasek == vorlon ....
<LaserJock> persia: fine ... ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It's up to the u* binaries (going from the end, did sources first)
<persia> Fujitsu: Does it have a URL yet?
<Fujitsu> persia: Not at the moment.
<slangasek> persia: also, seems to be a less-good reference than I remember, clearly I need to write some new papers on this subject :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: is that just lintian?
<RAOF> pwnguin: Thanks for reminding me.
<slangasek> pwnguin: hmm. uh-oh? :)
<persia> slangasek: Please.  That's an excellent set of slides, but it's a solved problem.  .la isn't even mentioned.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yeah, linda takes orders of magnitude longer to run.
<RAOF> pwnguin: I still need to draft a "Is this our udev policy???" page :)
<pwnguin> heh
<slangasek> persia: er, "solved problem"?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: tell StevenK to make it faster ;-)
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<persia> slangasek: versioned dependencies, and proper library packaging.
<pwnguin> In my case, i just wound up with a "just use sudo" jutsu
<slangasek> persia: hmm, that's not really the point of the slides; see, I evidently also should've written a full paper instead of just doing slides and a talk :-)
<RAOF> pwnguin: You can look at kvm (for which I really need to clean up my Debian merge, and install a Hardy system to test)
<persia> slangasek: In other words, (I suspect as a result of your talk), it is very rare for an Ubuntu user to experience a segfault because of an ABI transition.
<LaserJock> persia: what does "outdate tracking" mean?
 * persia thought there was a full paper, done with OO Writer, which was eaten by the Debian server failure.
<slangasek> persia: here's the 10 cent summary of the issue: existing tools cause everything near the top of the tree to directly link to everything below it in the tree.  This causes each library transition to be bigger than it should be
<slangasek> persia: yeah, by "paper" I fear I meant my slides
<slangasek> which I remembered as being more contentful
<persia> slangasek: But with the originals lost, you didn't have to admit that :)
<slangasek> heh
<persia> LaserJock: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/hardy_outdate.txt
<pwnguin> what about archive.org?
<pwnguin> when was debconf4?
<persia> pwnguin: http://debconf4.debconf.org/
<slangasek> anyway. each lib transition becomes bigger, and therefore is spread out over a longer period in time (whether it's just rebuilds, or packages needing to be touched)
<LaserJock> persia: I'm not sure what I'm looking at :-)
<slangasek> this increases the chance that a binary is going to end up linked to multiple versions of the same lib for no good reason
<slangasek> and multiple versions of the same lib loaded, without symbol versioning, == segfault
<persia> LaserJock: Those are reports of packages where the source version in the archives doesn't match the binary version in the archives.  It usually indicates a FTBFS (or a truly badly written debian/control file)
<Fujitsu> persia: Launchpad-derived FTBFS lists will also tell us that.
<LaserJock> hmm, that's what I was thinking
<slangasek> some key libraries now have symbol versioning (e.g., berkeley db or krb5).  Many others still don't.
<persia> slangasek: Ah.  And the .la files exacerbate the issue by pointing to an "offical" version, rather than letting the dlopen version symbol checking do it's thing?
<LaserJock> but I would've thought that a FTBFS or NBS list would tell us that
<persia> Different ways of achieving the same results.  debcheck is better than dist-problems.  Something could be better than dist-outdated.  If we don't have something better, the existing tools are still useful.
<slangasek> persia: they exacerbate the issue because when .la files are present, calling libtool at build-time gets you a linker command that has recursed through the dependencies of the libraries you *need*, and listed them all even when you're doing dynamic linking
<slangasek> persia: which creates direct references to a particular soname of a library, from a binary that doesn't need it.
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Ahhh.
<persia> slangasek: Aha, so *all* the symbols are loaded,and *everything* needs a rebuild.  Thanks for the extended explanation.
<slangasek> sure
<LaserJock> so I recently saw an email where shipping the .la was needed
<slangasek> right then, sleep now
<RAOF> Yup, that KDE issue.
<LaserJock> slangasek: good night, thanks for the explanation
<slangasek> yes, it's possible to misdesign things so that .la files are needed at runtime, but that's a separate game :)
<Fujitsu> Night slangasek.
<slangasek> night all
<RAOF> LaserJock: Because they statically link an old version of libtool into their tools :)
<persia> 902 Not in Sid!  My, we've signed on for a bit of work.  That's 15 each.
<persia> RAOF: Won't that go away with some sneaky plan for KDE4?
<LaserJock> persia: that's packages only in Ubuntu?
<Fujitsu> persia: We haven't processed removals yet.
<RAOF> persia: I believe they'll update their internal libtool, yes :P
<persia> Fujitsu: Removed from Sid: 0 packages
<persia> RAOF: And keep it interna;?  Madness.
<Fujitsu> persia: Well, the removals detection isn't ideal yet, so I removed the check... I should probably remove that section from the page.
<persia> LaserJock: Well, the packages might be somewhere else, but they're not in Debian.
<Fujitsu> Or steal a Debian removals processor from elsewhere.
<RAOF> persia: Maybe they're following the ffmpeg development plan.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  That makes me less worried.  If I hadn't seed "Removed from Sid: 0", the 902 wouldn't be so bad.
 * Fujitsu notes the top of the removals.py
<Fujitsu> # TODO: We should ensure that it hasn't been removed from experimental
<LaserJock> RAOF: dh_install --list-missing is awesome ;-)
<RAOF> LaserJock: *Yes*
<ajmitch> so how many of the tasks are left to pick up now?
<imbrandon> holy hell, i must have mucked up my regex for subscribing to wiki pages, i am getting ALL changes now , hrm
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Haha.
<ion_> :-)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch is subscribed to all, I think.
 * ion_ is brave (or reckless?) and upgrades to hardy.
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> ion_: I upgraded one of my machines days ago!
<ajmitch> disk space is cheap
<persia> ajmitch: Let's see.  Laserjock has A and E.  Fujitsu has D (and new F: lintian).  B and C need volunteers, although the value of B has been questioned.
<imbrandon> btw moins all
 * Fujitsu prods edge.
<ajmitch> persia: cool, so I'm not needed
 * Fujitsu prods edge harder.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, specialy when its gmails diskspace
<persia> ajmitch: Are you shure you don't want C?
<Fujitsu> C is piuparts?
<ajmitch> persia: running piuparts over universe would require far more bandwidth than I have
<imbrandon> we diving up work ?
<persia> ajmitch: Ah.  That's be "Yes, you're sure" then :)
<Fujitsu> It would take a long time for one person, wouldn't it?
<persia> imbrandon: Yep.
<persia> Fujitsu: About a week.
<imbrandon> whats left?
<Fujitsu> Ouch.
<ajmitch> I have the hardware to do it, but not the bandwidth
<persia> imbrandon: porting ftp-master scripts for universe, and hosting the results (perhaps not useful), and running piuparts at DIF, FF, and BF.
<ajmitch> piuparts should be coordinated with the QA team anyway
<ajmitch> especially people like liw
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I'm sure they'll restrict themselves to main.
<persia> ajmitch: Which QA team?
<imbrandon> hrm and port the ftp-master scripts from what to what ?
<Fujitsu> persia: Canonical's, probably.
<LaserJock> persia: I have E?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you do now
<persia> imbrandon: generated hardy-universe-problems.txt and hardy-universe-outadated.txt
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's part of the LP business.
<LaserJock> oh
<Fujitsu> They have that information, but we can't get it out in bulk at the moment.
<persia> LaserJock: Do you not?  You volunteered to go talk to LP after Fujitsu pointed out that A & E were essentially the same from an LP POV
<LaserJock> persia: right, I just didn't connect that he was talking about E
<imbrandon> ahh ok, tell me where to get the originals , i can do that
<persia> imbrandon: http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/update_out_code/
<Fujitsu> persia: Porting that doesn't look trivial.
<imbrandon> k
<Fujitsu> Canonical has already ported it, presumably, so...
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea lets hold out breath :)
<persia> imbrandon: If porting isn't easy, ping pitti or cjwatson: there's already a main port running in the DC.
<imbrandon> our*
<persia> imbrandon: Also, you will need a local mirror to run against :)
<imbrandon> persia, ok, umm i talk to pitti semi often about stuff like this, i might just see if we can get something opened up
<persia> imbrandon: Great.  Thanks.
<Fujitsu> persia: universe MDT page updated with removals.
<imbrandon> persia, yea i have had a local mirror for a few years now, 1.5 or 2
 * persia seeks three people who are willing to donate a week of processor time and have a local mirror
<persia> Fujitsu: Thank you.
<Fujitsu> It should be fairly reliable, but there might be a couple of false-positives.
<imbrandon> man i wish i had unlimited $$ , lol, would make hobbies much easier
<persia> Only 638 Not in Sid.  That's a little more manageable.
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<imbrandon> why couldent i have founded thawt :P
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Haha.
 * persia reports all the volunteers to the mailing list.
<Fujitsu> persia: Thanks.
 * ajmitch volunteers Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> for what?
<ajmitch> for QA tasks
<persia> Hobbsee: piuparts
<Hobbsee> i dont have a local mirror
<ajmitch> I'm sure you have access to infinite bandwidth in .au
<Hobbsee> but StevenK does.
<Hobbsee> so try him
 * Fujitsu kicks LP.
 * persia is suspicious of bandwidth in .au
<Hobbsee> DC should be able to run it, anyway
<Fujitsu> persia: What bandwidth?
<ajmitch> persia: it's a myth
<Hobbsee> pitti will probably put it in for us.
<ajmitch> we can hope so
 * persia volunteers Hobbsee to volunteer pitti
<ajmitch> some people doubt that canonical would do such a thing for us
<Hobbsee> ok
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: depends which parts.
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: in reference to piuparts & all
<persia> Well, oiuoarts & archive rebuilds are the most painful part.
<Fujitsu> Oh, I suppose the Canonical world will be sleeping due to being in Boston. No LP for us, then.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: true.  depends who gets sweet talked into doing it, and how.
<ajmitch> you can sweet talk better than I
 * Fujitsu sweet talks Hobbsee into sweet talking whoever needs to be sweet talked.
<Hobbsee> :P
<ajmitch> good luck, I heard she bites
 * Hobbsee bites ajmitch
<ajmitch> :(
 * Hobbsee hugs ajmitch
<ajmitch> :)
 * persia cheers ajmitch, LaserJock, imbrandon, and Fujitsu for fixing QA
 * Hobbsee cheers at doing nothing
<imbrandon> i dunno bout fixing but heh
<ajmitch> persia: what am I being cheered for?
<persia> ajmitch: Maintaining the RC Buglist.
<ajmitch> oh right
<Fujitsu> persia: Thanks for trying to get all this together.
 * persia runs off for a while
<LaserJock> can I specify a variable directory to install into in a .install file
<LaserJock> I need to install to /usr/lib/<library>/<version>/
<highvoltage> LaserJock: pong
<imbrandon> LaserJock, have the rules generate the .install file from a <package>.install.in with marcos ? hehe justa  idea
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ewwww
<LaserJock> the thing is I don't know the <version> until build time
<LaserJock> I'm dropping a plugin into the lib of another package
<nxvl> finally i have got gmail's imap support
<nxvl> :D
<imbrandon> nxvl, yea i was happy to get it too
<imbrandon> finaly
<nxvl> imbrandon: i was real tired of waiting to come home to check my mail
<nxvl> now i can do it also at work :D
<nxvl> with the same configuration
<highvoltage> nxvl: yay! mine is working too!
<nxvl> it's really great
<LaserJock> for me the webmail is still a lot faster though
<imbrandon> imap seems pretty speedy here, i still havent got mutt the way i like it , but thatrs neither here nor there
<nxvl> LaserJock: i have nothing against webmail, despide the fact that you can't sign your mails :D
<imbrandon> yea thats my main thing for using imap, to sign the mail
<LaserJock> nxvl: well, I never sign email anyway
<LaserJock> I think perhaps the only time I've ever signed an email was when I did a keysigning at UDS Paris
<LaserJock> oh, and to get a REVU account I did
<nxvl> i don't sand any email that is't urgent without signing it
<LaserJock> I haven't figured out the point
<nxvl> meh, xchat is't usefull for small resolution, back to irssi
<Fujitsu> XChat isn't useful full-stop...
<LaserJock> I like xchat
 * RAOF still hasn't got gmail imap :(
<imbrandon> ugh , ok i'm stuck in a loop http://paste.ubuntu.com/1536/ any help
 * Fujitsu doesn't have GMail IMAP either.
<Fujitsu> But I don't have a GMail account, so that might do itt.
<imbrandon> wow there is someone on the planet without gmail ? heh
<RAOF> LaserJock: Ah.  ugh.  I don't suppose you can just install /usr/lib/library/*?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: You could manually hack the postinst.
<Fujitsu> Just return 0 at the top, and then reinstall the package afterwards to make sure things are OK.
<LaserJock> RAOF: well, I don't know if that'd work for the target is the problem
<LaserJock> imbrandon: only weird people  ;-)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, hrm true
<RAOF> Ah, for the target.  Why not let dh_install guess the target?
<RAOF> It should guess correctly, I believe.  As long as upstream's build system puts the lib in the right place.
<LaserJock> well, that's the funky part
<imbrandon> hrm here is the temp postinst kept ?
<RAOF> Oh.  Upstream doesn't work?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: /var/lib/dpkg/info/somepackage.postinst
<RAOF> LaserJock: That makes it somewhat more annoying.
<LaserJock> all the .install is doing for the most part is moving files form debian/tmp/ into debian/<packagename>
<LaserJock> RAOF: no, upstream is fine
<RAOF> Ok.  This sounds like nice, normal dh_install usage so far... :)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Is this the ex-Dapper box, or did you break it some other way?
<imbrandon> the ex-dapper
<imbrandon> still fiddling with upgrading it
<LaserJock> ok, but in rules DESTDIR is debian/tmp/
<LaserJock> why wouldn't it just be debian/<packagename>/
<LaserJock> and I would do away with most of .install
<RAOF> LaserJock: The package isn't splitting it up into multiple binaries?
<LaserJock> nope
<RAOF> IE: why is it using dh_install in the first place?
<LaserJock> it's a single binary
<LaserJock> but the packaging is as if there were multiple
<RAOF> Is it missing lots of files in the binary? (Ie: is it using dh_install to install only necessary stuff, rather than removing unnecessary stuff?)
<LaserJock> I wonder if that's just for future's sake in case it needed to be split or what
<LaserJock> it's using dh_install to install everything
<RAOF> Sounds like a needlessly complicated package, really.  It's not hard to split in future.
<RAOF> What package is this?
<LaserJock> which gave me grief because upstream added new .so files and they didn't make it into the package because of the .install
<LaserJock> gchempaint
<imbrandon> dh_install --list-missing :P
<RAOF> imbrandon: Or DESTDIR=debian/packagename/, and just not use dh_install
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yes, that's how I found out all that was missing
<LaserJock> RAOF: this is the current .install http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42793/
<imbrandon> LaserJock, FYI you know there is a new paste.ubuntu.com that uses the same script that seveas made for -nl.org :P
<LaserJock> ah, awesome
<LaserJock> I always have to google for the URL
<LaserJock> drives me nuts
<imbrandon> heh
<RAOF> LaserJock: Why don't you just use DESTDIR=debian/<packagename>?  It doesn't look like you need dh_install for anything but the last 2 lines.
<LaserJock> RAOF: that's what I thought
<RAOF> Then, presumably, submit the patch to the Debian maintainer?
<LaserJock> is there anything like a remove file?
<LaserJock> RAOF: well, I kinda am one of the Debian maintainers
<RAOF> Oh, even better :)
<LaserJock> so I'll make sure to submit a patch ;-)
<LaserJock> I want to get rid of these .la files
 * imbrandon watches LaserJock email himself
<RAOF> LaserJock: You mean something like dh_remove?  No, I don't think so.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: "WTH, I'm not going to take that stupid patch?!!?!"
<LaserJock> "Oh yeah, well you're the dumbest maintainer I've ever seen"
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, good thing is i'll probably get the update finished tonight, bad thing is its taken ME 3 days to accomplish
<RAOF> LaserJock: I think you have to just do a rm on them in the rules.
 * LaserJock starts bug-flaming himself in BTS
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> man i'm sooo getting tired of unresponsive upstream and PERL
 * imbrandon ponder making a apt-mirror_ng
<pwnguin> so im thinking about making a silly package
<pwnguin> for irssi-notify
<imbrandon> to make libnotify via ssh easy ? hehe
 * LaserJock ponders filing removal requests for silly packages
<pwnguin> basically, it uses libnotify and ssh to pop up locally on highlight
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea i think we're gonna have to start upgrade testing NOW , i cant count how many times i've seen "dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of"
<imbrandon> in the last 2 days
<LaserJock> what's a good way to debug why an app can't find a shared library that I know exists?
<RAOF> ldd?
<RAOF> Is it a fun arch-incompatibility problem (32bit vs 64bit?)
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock>         libgcpcanvas-0.8.4.so => not found
<RAOF> Is libgcp* in LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
<LaserJock> that .so is in /usr/lib/gchempaint/
<RAOF> So, it's not.
<RAOF> So, options include a LD_LIBRARY_PATH wrapper (favoured by users of gecko, for example).
<RAOF> RPATH, favoured by heavy users of crack that gets bugs filed against it.
<RAOF> And... um... hacking the source to get it to load from a different place.
<LaserJock> why can't if find it where it is?
<LaserJock> *it
<LaserJock> seems rather odd
<RAOF> Because it's asking the dynamic loader to find it, and /usr/lib/gchempaint isn't in ld.so.conf.
<RAOF> Oh, the other option is to add a file to /etc/ld.so.conf.d to special-
<LaserJock> I guess I was assuming anything in /usr/lib/ would be
<RAOF> case the loader's path for that binary.
<RAOF> LaserJock: Anything in /usr/lib, yes.  Not recursive.
<RAOF> Private libraries are a pain in the arse.
<LaserJock> for goodness sakes
<RAOF> Actually, _why_ is that library private?
<LaserJock> heck if I know
<LaserJock> that's just where it ends up
<imbrandon> heh
<Epox_Ardere_> anyone install iwlwifi drivers yet
<pwnguin> i have
<RAOF> Epox_Ardere_: Yeah, I've been using them for ages.
<Epox_Ardere_> sweet finally someone talking back to me
<pwnguin> its unfortunate that nobody has really talked more about them
<pwnguin> on planet or UWN
<RAOF> Well, they only kinda work, really.
<LaserJock> what are they?
<RAOF> Actually open intel wireless drivers.
<Epox_Ardere_> maybe i'm just an idiot but does 7.10 have the hotplug firmware agent
<RAOF> Using the shiny new linux wireless stack.
<LaserJock> RAOF: is there any reason why I can't drop the .so into /usr/lib/ >
<pwnguin> its a bit sad that restricted driver manager suggests ipw when iwl is installed and working
<RAOF> LaserJock: No.  Although you'd then want to split it off into a library package, and you'd need to do all the funky library versioning stuff.
<Epox_Ardere_> really?
<RAOF> pwnguin: Eh, ipw works better than iwl for me.  For example, iwl doesn't survive a suspend.
<LaserJock> RAOF: oh, no thanks ;-)
<pwnguin> RAOF: well, in my case, suspend is already broke
<RAOF> LaserJock: So, *that* would be why you can't put it in /usr/lib :)
<Epox_Ardere_> i just would like to know if the iwl drivers allow for packet injection in aireplay-ng
<LaserJock> RAOF: now I know why I like python packaging ;-)
<RAOF> pwnguin: If I configure compiz just right, then my laptop doesn't die on resume-from-suspend (thank you nvidia, your drivers almost fail to suck)
<RAOF> LaserJock: Heh.  Until it grows a gtkmozembed dependency (frikkin miro)
<RAOF> (On the other hand, the new nvidia drivers *do* leak like a colander)
<LaserJock> man, you'd think it wouldn't be such a pain when the thing builds from tarball so easily
<RAOF> Where does it normally install that lib to?
<Epox_Ardere_> anyone know if the iwl drivers allow for packet injection in aireplay-ng
<Epox_Ardere_> i know that the ipwraw drivers were supposed to be able to do this
<RAOF> Epox_Ardere_: You're asking in the wrong place :)
<RAOF> Where would be the *right* place?  Hm.
<Epox_Ardere_> not quite sure
<LaserJock> RAOF: good question, I think in /usr/local/lib/gchempaint/
<RAOF> You know, the iwl website *might* point you in the right direction :)
<LaserJock> but I think there's some rpath stuff involved
<imbrandon> Epox_Ardere_, probably bets to just try it
<LaserJock> which was stripped out in the Debian packaging
<imbrandon> best*
<RAOF> LaserJock: Ah, yay rpath.  Yeah.
<Epox_Ardere_> i tried following their instructions and just ran into problems
<Epox_Ardere_> i'm sure i'm doing something wrong
<LaserJock> ok, well, I'm 2 hrs overdue for bed time
<RAOF> LaserJock: So, LD_LIBRARY_PATH wrapper, or drop a config file into /etc/ld.so.conf.d
<Epox_Ardere_> kinda new to this whole compile your own stuff
<LaserJock> RAOF: so that's just a wrapper script with export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=<blah> <binary> ?
<imbrandon> but then you can do neat things like crack wireless WEP networks *rolls eyes* hehe
<RAOF> LaserJock: Yup.
<RAOF> Epox_Ardere_: Or you could use the drivers in linux-ubuntu-modules, already built for your enjoyment.
<LaserJock> RAOF: ok, well I'll have a talk with the other maintainers
<imbrandon> RAOF, only on gutsy
<LaserJock> this packaging is a bit ... old
<RAOF> imbrandon: I always forget that some people don't run ubuntu+1 :)
<imbrandon> :P
<Epox_Ardere_> RAOF i'm not quite following
<LaserJock> what? I thought everybody was running Hardy
<imbrandon> Epox_Ardere_, the iwl drivers are in linux-ubuntu-modules already in ubuntu, no need to compile your self
<imbrandon> is what he ment
<Epox_Ardere_> how would i go about loading them instead of the restricted drivers
<RAOF> Epox_Ardere_: You'd put ipw3945 into the /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist file, and add iwl3945 to /etc/modules
<RAOF> Epox_Ardere_: And be on Gutsy, and have linux-generic (or linux-rt) installed.
<imbrandon> and lum
<RAOF> imbrandon: That's a dependency of linux-generic, right?
 * RAOF never recommends anything but the metapackage.
<imbrandon> RAOF, no sure , i'm just now figuring out the new system
<Epox_Ardere_> is there a way that I could just disable as in # modprobe -r ipw3945
<Epox_Ardere_> and then load as in # modprobe iwl3945
<imbrandon> Epox_Ardere_, sure if you do that at every boot, and this is drifting off into support :)
<Epox_Ardere_> sorry
<imbrandon> np, just stating it, soemtimes MOTU and support overlap a bit :P
<imbrandon> specialy when its semi slow in here , like now
<pwnguin> people run hardy?
<ion_> I upgrade a while ago.
<pwnguin> its been open for like a week, i think.
<Hobbsee> i'm thinking about it.
<pwnguin> so is there some website i can look at to monitor the sync process?
<Hobbsee> oh, only 11K builds to go now
<Hobbsee> down from 13K
<RAOF> pwnguin: You can watch the build queue on launchpad.
<pwnguin> well, i was thinking for a given package
<RAOF> You can search for it in the build queue? :)
<RAOF> And for your first question: yes, of course - I'm going to install tonight.  How else can you build Hardy packages?
<RAOF> s/build/test/
<imbrandon> hardy chroot/pbuilder
<RAOF> Ok.  How can I test my hardy kvm merge :P
<imbrandon> qemu/vbox
<imbrandon> heh test the new kvm with the old kvm
<RAOF> But neither of them expose the VT extensions :P
<RAOF> It's one of the few packages you actually have to test on a real, on-the-metal install.
<imbrandon> vbox does iirc
<RAOF> Really??
<RAOF> I find that somewhat unlikely.  But maybe.  I may check that out.
<imbrandon> err s/exposes/uses/g gah
<RAOF> Heh, _yes_
<RAOF> Anyway, homing time :)
<imbrandon> hrm looks like socal / san fran / san jose got an 5.5+ earthquake
<ajmitch> fairly small
<imbrandon> ahahahh gotta LOVE digg quote : "FOX news has issued a statement that the recent quake may be connected to Al Queda....."
<imbrandon> omg i'm gonna pee myself
<Fujitsu> O_o
<elkbirthday> please tell me you're joking...
<imbrandon> it was a digg comment so i'd assume its a joke, a good one
<Fujitsu> Ah, good.
<imbrandon> http://digg.com/world_news/Earthquake_in_San_Francisco?t=10235007#c10235007
<imbrandon> ^^ just that comment showing
<pwnguin> what else is new
<pwnguin> california burns and vibrates all the time
<imbrandon> pwnguin, considering my wife wanted to move to mt view, then she seen all the news of fires, and now this, i bet she changes her mind
<pwnguin> mt view?
<pwnguin> why?
<imbrandon> mountain view
<pwnguin> yea -- i believe google has a data center up there
<imbrandon> dunno I went for a visit / job interview and she went with me and liked it
<imbrandon> yea google hq is there
<imbrandon> she's never lived anywhere but KC so she will like anywhere new LOL
<pwnguin> kc's quite nice though, if you dont mind the snow
<pwnguin> if you do, theres always texas, but well... it's texas
<imbrandon> yea i love it in the summer, i hate it in the winter
<imbrandon> i personaly like mountain view and nashville , i lived in nashville a few years, it was quite nice
<imbrandon> tx was ok, but the job market where in TX i would live sucks
<warp10> Hi all!
<zul_> mountain view is nowhere near the firess though
<pwnguin> well, it is now ;)
<Fujitsu> I presume we're going to want to remove packages like bkp (hasn't been uploaded since hoary, was never in Debian, and has next to no users) in the near future, but where do we stop the Great Purge?
<imbrandon> zul_, try to explain that to a blonde that has never been to Califorina or left KC , heheh ( did i just say that out loud )
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, is it far out of date with upstream, if not i dont see a point in removing it
<imbrandon> some things dont release every cycle or even ever year
<zul_> imbrandon: heh, my wife is a blonde although she does her hair, the earthquake would have me worried though
<imbrandon> its always something though, FL / TX huricanes , Cali , fires / quakes, KC / Midwest Tornado , everywhere else COLD !
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It looks like bkp was pulled from upstream's repo, and there are new versions there.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, got a way to generate that list ?
<imbrandon> automagicly that is
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: There's a list of packages in Ubuntu, but not Debian, and that haven't been removed from Debian recently, on my MDT page.
<Fujitsu> It's not easy to extract the last release it was uploaded to, though. Hopefully LaserJock will get something from the LP guys for that, as we need it for other stuff.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, getting closer "0 upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 156 not upgraded."
<imbrandon> heh
<zul_> imbrandon: the place where I lived when I was a kid, if there was ever going to be a major earthquake a large chunk of the city would go into the ocean
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: You fixed the kernel issue?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea
<Fujitsu> How much breakage has there been so far?
<imbrandon> i just removed the postinst and then installed mktemp then reinstall initiramfs-tools
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, 3 days worth, just aobut everything that could break has
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<imbrandon> X , kernel, python, upstart
<zul> imbrandon: thats why you dont do that ;)
<imbrandon> luckly i havent rebooted the machine once yet though , i doubt it would boot in the state its in now
<Fujitsu> upstart and python are two nasty migrations.
<Fujitsu> Convenient that they were a release after the lTS.
<imbrandon> X seems to be too, not sure why yet
<imbrandon> i basicly had to remove all X and reinstall it
<zul> imbrandon: whats wrong with the kernel stuff?
<imbrandon> it was trying to install with mktemp removed so the postinst died
<imbrandon> in a loop so i couldent install mktemp
<zul> ah
<imbrandon> without hacking the po0stinst
<imbrandon> and i cant count how many packages contain files in other packages but dont Replaces: them
<imbrandon> pita
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: The conflicts/replaces checker lists those - we'll have to go through that at some point.
<imbrandon> yea, i'm guessing there will be sh*tloads of them
<persia> Fujitsu: Which conflicts/replces checker?
<Fujitsu> persia: life*less runs it, IIRC, but I forget where.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.  I'll ask next time I see the nick.
<Fujitsu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConflictsReplacesChecker
<Fujitsu> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/possible-conflicts/
<imbrandon> whoop , kiddo up with a bad dream, back in a few minutes
<persia> Hrm.  The interface is missing, and it seems like it's being planned as a upload-recipient tool.  Still, good data - worth checking when touching a package.
<huats> morning all
<imbrandon> re
<imbrandon> wow , wine + qemu-i386 + ppc arch howto, nice crack there
<zul> imbrandon: icky
<imbrandon> what i dont understand is adobe released flash9 for solaris on a sparc and solaris on a x86 both , and linux on a x86 but not linux on a PPC
<imbrandon> wouldent you think the linux ppc > solaris on a sparc needing flash ?
<zul> imbrandon: i know a guy at adobe wanna me to ask or was it rhetroical? ;)
<imbrandon> well it was rhetroical untill you said that ;)
<imbrandon> sure ask if you rember
<imbrandon> man i'm thinking etch to gutsy is easier than dapper to gutsy
<imbrandon> man-o-man what mess did we get into for this LTS
<highvoltage> imbrandon: but you're not supposed to go from dapper to gutsy!
<imbrandon> highvoltage, well your supose to go from dapper to hardy , and gutsy == installable hardy atm
<imbrandon> upgrade testing has already begun ( un-intentionaly )
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: You're not meant to dist-upgrade.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, you know how many will ? i'd say about 80% or more from LTS to LTS
<imbrandon> and we SHOUDL be able to, its ludacris why we cant
<imbrandon> SHOULD*
<imbrandon> if i can dist-upgrade from sarge to etch, there is no reason we cant do the same, nor shouldent do the same
<imbrandon> hell some sarge installs even went from 2.4 kernel to 2.6 in etch, but transition among many others
<highvoltage> imbrandon: yes, but specialcar will go into upgrading from dapper to hardy. I agree with you that it's going to be a pain to fix up though
<imbrandon> highvoltage, yes and just whom do you think provides the special care ? heheh US
<Fujitsu> We've got a *lot* of work to do.
<imbrandon> thus better to start looking into potential problems NOW then 2 months before release
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> I would have thought there'd be something about that at UDS, but I've seen naught.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, me either and i cant partisipate via voip untill tomarrow ( maybe not even then )
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Why not?
<imbrandon> but i'm going to shoot jcastro a note and see if he notices anyone talking aobut it
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, no headset atm
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<imbrandon> well i HAVE one but its poor quality, i need to go pickup a new one
<imbrandon> the old one is many moons old
<imbrandon> i think i got it for the dapper UDS voip and let the kids use it after that since i was at the edgy one
<imbrandon> etc
<pwnguin> i had mad problems with ekiga
<pwnguin> ridiculus echo
<imbrandon> how critical is this error : ( i only have a single non-lvm ide disk ) just never seen it before .......
<imbrandon> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-14-powerpc
<imbrandon> mdadm: /dev/hda3 does not appear to be an md device
<imbrandon> cpio: ./sbin/vgchange: Cannot stat: No such file or directory
<pwnguin> well, i doubt your mac has raid
<Fujitsu> That should be fine.
<imbrandon> nah single ide 6gb disk
<pwnguin> donno about cpio
<imbrandon> kk
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Probably just means lvm2 isn't properly installed.
<imbrandon> k i'm just down to fixing udev and then install ubuntu-desktop again
<imbrandon> then should be done
<imbrandon> i think the hard stuff is past
<Fujitsu> And then hoping that it boots.
<imbrandon> lol yea
<imbrandon> if not i have a etch netinstall disk handy :)
<Fujitsu> It probably won't, but might if you use an old kernel.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<imbrandon> well i reinstalled the initramfs-tools a few cycles ago
<imbrandon> sooo
 * pwnguin is so happy
<imbrandon> it should leaste boot
<pwnguin> CellWriter is really, really nice
<pwnguin> not quite TIP, but still pretty damn good
<imbrandon> ugh i need an adb keyboard too
 * imbrandon groans
<pwnguin> adb keyboard?
<imbrandon> the old apple ones before they went usb
<pwnguin> oh
<imbrandon> apple data bus , or something
<pwnguin> you're pretty hard core there, sounds like
<imbrandon> ummm ?
<pwnguin> installing without a keyboard on a ppc?
<imbrandon> nah i dont have any m68k's , yet
<imbrandon> nah the iMac's i'm installing on have the usb keyboards, but i have a 3rd sitting here without one
<imbrandon> and no usb
<pwnguin> well, its WAAY past bedtime
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> now sparc's i've installed with serial only
<imbrandon> but thats been a while
 * Fujitsu is boring, with not even and amd64.
<Fujitsu> *an
<imbrandon> hardware comes and goes, i just seem to cycle through it more than most
<imbrandon> hehe
<huats> hey guys
<Fujitsu> Hi huats.
<huats> I have realized that ampache is not in ubuntu (or at least I haven't seen it)
<huats> but it is in debian.. is there a way to sync it ? ask for a sync ?
<Hobbsee> shoudl autosync for gutsy, if it's in sid
<huats> I've never done such a thing before... so I am asking what is the correct way :-)
<imbrandon> if its in debian now, it will sync soon into hardy
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, s/gutsy/hardy/g ?
<huats> it is in sid and lenny
<huats> so it'll be autosync
<huats> ok that is great
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, that.
<huats> :-)
<imbrandon> yup
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i think i need an autoreplace there
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, :)
<huats> imbrandon: thanks
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: maybe if i upgrade to hardy, i'll remember
<Hobbsee> but i still seem to think i'm on a development version
<imbrandon> heh
 * Fujitsu hasn't upgraded in a few hours :(
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, woot, ppc dapper --> gutsy finished
<imbrandon> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<imbrandon> root@bondi-333:~#
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Rebooted yet?
<imbrandon> time to see what happens on a reboot
<imbrandon> nope, bout to do that now
<imbrandon> *cross fingers*
<Fujitsu> Oh dear.
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> guess no boot for me
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> time to go in the other room and see what it failed on
<Fujitsu> In the initramfs, or otherwise?
<imbrandon> no idea , i have to wait a ~1 hour to go in the room, its in where my wife is sleeping
<imbrandon> i was doing it via ssh
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Wait, wth are you doing up?
<imbrandon> bored
<imbrandon> not tired
<imbrandon> etc
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<imbrandon> i peeked in , yea its an a busybox (initramfs) prompt
<imbrandon> i'll have to poke at it more later
<imbrandon> can it be recovered from that ?
<Fujitsu> Try using an old kernel first - it's probably had issues with regenerating the new initramfs.
<Fujitsu> It could also be that the upstart migration didn't go ideally.
<amachu> bluekuja: hi
<imbrandon> oh jez, ubuntu demon is at it again on planet
<zul> imbrandon: fun fun
<Fujitsu> His avatar... it burns.
<Fujitsu> `I'm very sorry! I don't want to spam planet.ubuntu.com'
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: did you log into sparky recently?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea i'm on it now
<imbrandon> wasup?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: did you kill my screen session?
<imbrandon> nope
 * imbrandon killed no processes
<Hobbsee> odd
<Hobbsee> i had 2 screen sessions, and the more important one is somehow killed.
<imbrandon> imbrandon@sparky:~$ uptime
<imbrandon>  15:45:10 up 62 days,  4:57,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.02
<imbrandon> no reboots either
<zul> hey dholbach
<imbrandon> ugh i cant get sip working
<dholbach> hey zul
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: indeed - but that wouldnt have left one of the screens up, would it?  :)
<imbrandon> nah nothing should have messed up your screen unless the app segfaulted that was running in it
<imbrandon> ( or finished )
<Hobbsee> both are unlikely
<Hobbsee> oh well
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for a MOTU to review my package on REVU : It currently has 0 advocations - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=easycrypt
<joejaxx> jdong: ping :)
<mok0> How do I "go merging"??
<mok0> I'd like to help out
<joejaxx> mok0: here is a guide to merging
<joejaxx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
<joejaxx> mok0: and here is the place where you can get the merges
<joejaxx> http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<joejaxx> mok0: make sure you ask the person in the "Last Uploader" field if they are not already working on it
<joejaxx> :D
 * dholbach hugs y'all
<Kmos> dholbach: hi
<dholbach> hey Kmos
<Kmos> :)
<mok0> joejaxx: Thanx for the reference. I thought noone was here so I whipped off a message to u-m
<joejaxx> mok0: ah ok :)
<joejaxx> mok0: you are most welcome
<mok0> joejaxx: ... and I upload to REVU?
<joejaxx> uhhh
<joejaxx> no i do not think so
<mok0> ... I can't upload anywhere else...
<mok0> ... am not a MOTU
<joejaxx> dholbach: do not know how this works? i have not done merging in a while :)
<dholbach> joejaxx: there's wiki docs about that - I'm a bit busy right now
<joejaxx> ok
<huats> joejaxx: may be you can ask your pb here...
<joejaxx> because i do not see anything about it on the wiki
<huats> and I am sure that many people might be able to help you out
<joejaxx> huats: it is not me with the issue it is mok0 :)
<huats> yeah I know....
<huats> I've done a very few merges...
<huats> so may be I can help on very simple questions...
<Hobbsee> upload to revu, or post a debdiff on teh bug
<Hobbsee> depends if there's a new upstream version
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: i thought revu was only for new packages
<joejaxx> :P
<mok0> OK I found the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: it can be for new upstream versoins, etc, too.  depends which is more useful
<joejaxx> oh ok
<deadwill> yo
<proppy> hi
<bddebian> Heya gang
<deadwill> hiya bddebian
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya deadwill, geser
<norsetto> would anyone know where I can find an old debian source package?
<proppy> norsetto: debian snapshot
<proppy> norsetto: or debian archive
<norsetto> proppy: where is that? For once that you should give me a link :-)
<proppy> norsetto: http://snapshot.debian.net/
<proppy> norsetto: http://www.debian.org/distrib/archive
<norsetto> proppy: thanks, the first should do I think
<proppy> norsetto: you're welcome
<proppy> norsetto: you mean that I give you too much link ? :)
<proppy> usually :)
<norsetto> proppy: got it :-) Too many? Well, it all depends on the standards ....
<proppy> norsetto: btw you gave me a revelation yesterady
<norsetto> proppy: you saw Mary?
<proppy> norsetto: I saw a debian/rules with only an empty clean and build target
<norsetto> proppy: oh, unitestc++ you mean
<proppy> norsetto: nop
<proppy> norsetto: on juce, when you tell me that debian/rules is only a makefile
<norsetto> proppy: and then he saw the light .....
<proppy> norsetto: and that debhelper are only command that you choose to replace so many line everybody is doing the same
<proppy> norsetto: and I began with a minimal rules http://juce.aminche.com/juce-1.45/debian/rules
<proppy> norsetto: that only successfully compile juce
<proppy> norsetto: and I will figure out what debhelper do one by one
<huats> norsetto: hello my favorite future tour guide
<norsetto> huats: and on the left you can see the coliseum
<huats> norsetto: oh...
<huats> norsetto: this is so big
<proppy> norsetto: I hope I didn't get it wrong
<norsetto> proppy: it was very difficult to resist, but I did it
<proppy> norsetto: ?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: excellent!
<proppy> norsetto: to resist to what ?
<norsetto> proppy: making a tasteless joke
<jdong> norsetto: use the factoid
<jdong> !twss
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about twss - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<jdong> grr never mind
<norsetto> !language | jdong
<ubotu> jdong: Please watch your language and topic, and keep this channel family friendly.
<Hobbsee> !twss-#ubuntuforums | jdong
<ubotu> jdong: That's what she said!
<norsetto> jdong: what is twss?
<Hobbsee> !jdong | jdong
<ubotu> jdong: <Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<jdong> !twss-#ubuntuforums | norsetto
<ubotu> norsetto: That's what she said!
<Hobbsee> norsetto: dont ask things about the crack-saturated mind
<norsetto> lol
<jdong> we've gotta show our spirit for the US Office :)
<norsetto> twss=thats what she said ... har har (sorry, still trying to digest the scrambled eggs and bacon)
<proppy> norsetto: don't use call the ops factoid :)
<`23meg> bug 117256
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117256 in ubuntu "Thats What She Said!" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117256
<highvoltage> imbrandon: hehe
<highvoltage> imbrandon: will universe also be upgradable from dapper to hardy?
<Kmos> highvoltage: yes
<highvoltage> shew
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: that's the plan.
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: modulo people around to help, though
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: "modulo"? does that mean not enough?
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: it's a term that people have been using a fair bit in ubuntu
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: you're aware of modulo in, say, c++?
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: nope, I'm afraid I'm terribly ignorant when it comes to c++
<Pici> So, %, but what does that mean when it comes to upgrading... /me is confused too
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: okay, if you divide 7/3, you get 2.  and 1 remainder.  so 7 % (mod) 3 == 1.
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: it's basically another way of saying (assuming that this happens)
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: ie.
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: aah, right
<Hobbsee> we will do this, as long as this stuff happens
<Hobbsee> er, this other stuff
<Pici> So... basically, you'll try just upgrading it and if it breaks someone will look at it?
<Hobbsee> something like that
<Mez> bug #59695
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 59695 in acpi-support "High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime (dup-of: 17216)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59695
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 17216 in acpi-support "Hard drive spindown should be configurable" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17216
<deadwill> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi deadwill
<joejaxx> bryyce: are you free at the moment? :D
<bryyce> yup
<bryyce> I'm at the green chairs
<joejaxx> ok
<bryyce> does anyone know, does Launchpad have an "import bugs from Sourceforge" capability?
<persia> bryce: Not import exactly, but if sourceforge is defined as the bugtracker for the upstream project, LP can track them.
<sladen> bryyce: "link to upstream bugtracker"
<norsetto> Hobbsee: do you know if I should already subscribe ums to bug 136634? For the time being I only subscribed u-sru
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 136634 in libcompress-zlib-perl "Unable to download packages using Gutsy debmirror" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136634
<Hobbsee> norsetto: if you cant upload, yes, i think so
<norsetto> Hobbsee: right, I will do, thanks
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for a MOTU to review my package on REVU : It currently has 0 advocations - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=easycrypt
 * persia notes that people who don't leave the channel are more likely to either receive reviews or feedback on why they might not be receiving reviews
<bddebian> persia: :)
<persia> bddebian: Take a look in the logs sometime.  That specific request seems to come every two or three hours, during certain portions of the British day.  Unfortunately, the offender left before I could explain why nobody will review the package.
<bryyce> persia, sladen: thanks; what I'm really looking for is to migrate a project's bug tracking off SF onto LP
<norsetto> persia: seems like that could be a script actually
<persia> bryyce: Importing all the legacy bugs?  That's a little trickier.  I'd suggest waiting until next week, and asking in #launchpad
<bryyce> ok
<Hobbsee> well, someone give him a review, and then hopefully he'll fix it enough to stop bugging :)
<mok0> I need to create a package from a binary-only distribution. But I need to make both i386 and amd64 .debs. Any ideas how to do that?
<persia> norsetto: Could be.  At least it's a well-formed request :)
<sladen> bryyce: in that case, that's different, talking the LP developers about doing a project import
<persia> mok0: When you say "binary-only", is this binary to be executed on the host processor, or is it some sort of firmware?
<mok0> persia: it's a compiled program, closed-source
<norsetto> Hobbsee: it was reviewed by at least 7 people, some of whom did it several times .....
<mok0> persia: I've downloaded two tar files, one for amd64 and one for i386
<mok0> I thought perhaps I could choose the tar file to unpack in debian/rules or something
<persia> mok0: Ah.  You can build binary packages from binary tar, but Ubuntu can't distribute it.  Look at the documentation for dpkg-deb for helpers, or build it manually (ar containing tar.gz files)
<mok0> persia: Yeah, I know, its for local distribution only.
<persia> mok0: It's easier to just rearrange the tar to have things in the right places, and to make a parallel tar with the control file, extras, and maintainer scripts.
<mok0> persia:  l like to build everything using debomatic these days :-)
<persia> mok0: "Building" a binary is a waste of cycles :)  If you really wanted to do it, yes, rules could untar, and then call dpkg-deb to re-tar, but I don't see the point.
<mok0> persia: It's just that I like to build everything in a similar fashion, whether or not it is closed-source or not.
<mok0> What is the name of the rules target that does the tar file unpacking?
<persia> mok0: OK.  I still think `tar xzf foo.tgz; cd foo; mkdir -p usr/local/foo; mv * usr/local/foo; mkdir DEBIAN; vi DEBIAN/control; dpkg-deb -b` is easier than building a package, but that may just be me.
<persia> mok0: You'll do best to make your own.  The tarfile-in-tarfile system tends to be very confusing.
<mok0> persia: OK, so you mean unpack in the "build" target or something?
<persia> mok0: If you insist, yes.
<mok0> persia: I do insist, heh ;-)
<persia> (especially because you would be able to take advantage of DEB_BUILD_ARCH)
<mok0> persia: exactly
<mok0> that's what I envisioned
<persia> mok0: I still claim the single line shell script above is easier :)
<persia> mok0: But I'm tired: please excuse me.
<mok0> persia: I tend to forget these things, I have a lot of nosource programs to install, and they're all different.
<mok0> persia: Well thanks for the advice!
<persia> mok0: Ugh.
<deadwill> hey norsetto, hi! :)
<hellboy195> does anybody know if gimp 2.4 finally arrives gutsy-updates? although gimp 2.4.1 was released today. It's a bugfix release ;)
<Burgundavia> hellboy195: it will not
<Burgundavia> it might show up in -backports
<hellboy195> Burgundavia: somethings ubuntu-devs seem to be very confused. thx for the info
<sacater> fear welp, if he enters
<nxvl> asac: ping
<nxvl> Fujitsu: ping
<norsetto> nxvl: fujitsu told me already he is fine with the change but please check with asac if he is ok too, and if he has some other fixes to include. Thanks!
<nxvl> norsetto: i send them an e-mail yesterday, i'm waiting for an answer
<norsetto> nxvl: I think asac is at the UDS so it may take a while
<nxvl> norsetto: so, Fujitsu doesn't want to include no other fixes?
<nxvl> norsetto: that's what i thought
<nxvl> norsetto: how is the process to became a MOTU member? what are the conditions/steps?
<nxvl> norsetto: do i need a mentor like in debian NM process?
<norsetto> nxvl: a mentor is not required
<asac> nxvl: pong
<nxvl> asac: norsetto has just answer me :D, i send you an e-mail yesterday, have you received it?
<nxvl> s/have/did/
<asac> hmm
<asac> your name/email?
<nxvl> Nicolas Valcarcel nvalcarcel@gmail.com
<norsetto> nxvl: here is a list of bugs on the plugin: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayerplug-in/
<asac> let me look in spam ... its not in my inbox
<asac> not found either
<nxvl> asac: i send it to asac@jwsdot.com
<asac> yeah thats correct
<asac> can you please resend it?
<asac> unless its void now of course
<nxvl> norsetto: ok i will patch some of them
<nxvl> asac: there is no need, i was asking for LP Bug #137993
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137993 in mplayerplug-in "mozilla-mplayer unnecessarily depends on gecko browsers" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137993
<nxvl> asac: if you want to add more fixes
<nenolod> hi,
<asac> ah right ... i looked at the bug but didn't manage to comment.
<nenolod> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libprojectm can be nuked because i just uploaded libprojectM 1.x to debian (it is in NEW)
<nenolod> so it will be available by the next time there is a sync
<asac> i think that just recommends is not enough because i don't see any use of the package if no plugin host is available on your system
<asac> further i don't understand why you have: | konqueror, xulrunner instead of | konqueror | xulrunner
<asac> ??
<nenolod> apachelogger, http://ftp-master.debian.org/~ajt/new/libprojectm_1.01-1_i386.html
<nenolod> ;p
<norsetto> asac: yes, all these have been clarified, the question now is if you have other fixes that you would like xnvl to include
<norsetto> nxvl even
<asac> norsetto: please remember that the new xulrunner package is called xulrunner-1.9
<nxvl> asac: i have fixed it that way konkeror | xulrunner, but not uploaded it yet
<norsetto> asac: ok, thanks for the input, xulrunner is just a transitional package, or its an obsolete one?
<asac> and please take a look where the plugin directory for xulrunner-1.9 lives in .. its a directory on its own from what i remember
<asac> xulrunner is a different kind of thing ... its a fork that debian introduced. Not sure if it will be removed for hardy though
<moquist> can someone name a source package that has multiple binaries and/or metapackages in its control file?
 * moquist needs an example
<asac> moquist: most non-trivial packages ... like firefox et al
<norsetto> asac: ok, so we will only add xulrunner-1.9 then, and we will add, if needed, appropriate links
<asac> right ... you can keep xulrunner for now ... for the sake of sending the diff upstream (to debian)
<asac> norsetto: you can then verify that it works for xulrunner-1.9 by running firefox-3.0
<moquist> asac: thx
<nenolod> apachelogger, so anyway, all you should need to do is package libvisual-projectM 1.x once libprojectM hits universe
<moquist> asac: do you know what "moodle has no source override entry" means? (output from apt-ftparchive)
<norsetto> asac: interesting, I actually tried gecko-mediaplayer with granparadiso and it didn't work
<asac> moquist: i think that the package doesn't have entries for things like Section: and you don't have explicit overrides for your ftp archive setup
<asac> norsetto: in general it should work ... when did you try?
<norsetto> asac: must have been 2 or 3 weeks ago
<TheMuso_Boston> How likely is it that we will have firefox v3 for hardy by default?
<asac> unless mozilla defers the final release for  long time firefox v3 will be default
<norsetto> asac: I thought it was the plugin dir, but it seems to be the same for 2.0 and 3.0 (/usr/lib/firefox/plugins/)
<asac> nope
<asac> its not the right directory
<norsetto> asac: ah!
<asac> use the xulrunner-1.9 plugin dir
<norsetto> asac: this could explain it then
<asac> norsetto: please join #ubuntu-mozillateam and ask Ubulette where the final dir will be ... the one in gutsy is not the right one either for hardy
<norsetto> asac: I see, ok will do right now
<nxvl> ok, back
<blueyed> pwnguin: you can use trickle to limit dput uploads (and any other program's net traffic)..
<nxvl> asac: so, what you are saying is that the installation process must be different if it is installed with gecko-browsers o with xulrunner?
<asac> nxvl: for gecko-browsers that use xulrunner-1.9 installing the plugin to xulrunners plugin dir is sufficient
<asac> for _old_ gecko browsers you need to put it into the dir that those browsers provide
<nxvl> mmm
<nxvl> kind of difficult task
<nxvl> so i need to check what de dependencies are and then do the install process for them
<nxvl> cause if i install it only in the xulrunner path it will be unusefull for gecko-browsers
<nxvl> well, for gecko-browsers without xulrunner
<Kmos> norsetto: can you check bug 157160 - it has debdiff attached
<Kmos> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ddclient/+bug/157160
<AnAnt> Hello, I am making a package for a metacity/gtk/icon theme, this theme is based on Human theme which is under CC license, so who should be mentioned in the copyright file ? the original artists who done Human theme, or the people who modified it, or both ? and can the new theme be licensed under GPL ?
<pochu> I guess it depends on which CC license... but IANAL...
<AnAnt> are there several CC licenses ?
<pochu> afaik yes.
<geser> Kmos: about the ddclient merge: why did you removed the Uploaders line? are the old Ubuntu changelog entries merged into the debian package or why are they missing?
<pochu> And some are non-free, iirc
<superm1> AnAnt, http://creativecommons.org/license/
<superm1> you can choose the license you see appropriate
<Kmos> geser: i'm done the latest two releases at debian of ddclient, i've merged everything from ubuntu.. only -multiuser spec and patch sample_ubuntu.diff aren't included
<Kmos> the uploaders.. hmm
 * Kmos his testing right now pingus 0.7.2 for debian, to after be synced to hardy
<Kmos> when it's released :) hehe
<Kmos> geser: i've removed the uploaders in the ubuntu version.. to change it to XSBC
<Kmos> geser: the changelog entries are merged into debian... :-)
<pochu> superm1: can he? if the theme is a fork of Human, shouldn't he keep the Human license? (unless that license let's him to choose a different one, but I doubt it...)
<geser> Kmos: only the Maintainer field needs to be changed, Uploaders can stay as it is (but Uploaders isn't used in Ubuntu anyway)
<superm1> pochu, that's why i was so broad about my response.
<superm1> pochu, but that's a good point
<superm1> pochu, what CC license is it under?
<Kmos> geser: so it's fine ?
<Kmos> geser: i've added a comment the bug about the changelog merge and the uploaders field.
<geser> I've only give it quick look but didn't checked if the other Ubuntu changes are included in the Debian package yet, will do it later
<Kmos> geser: ok, thanks =)
<pochu> superm1: I don't know :)
<ajmitch> hello
<pochu> heya ajmitch
<AnAnt> thanks
<superm1> jdong, why aren't you here?
<ScottK> Hello everyone.  I'm back home from UDS.
<StevenK> ScottK: How was your trip back?
<ScottK> StevenK: Trip back was very uneventful.  Train ran on time and stayed on the tracks.
<hellboy195> ScottK: any news from the UDS ?
<ScottK> hellboy195: I think anything that would qualify as news is in the specs, so I'd look there.
<hellboy195> ScottK: k, btw you know a motu which was involved in the decision to put gimp 2.4 final into the backports that I can contact?
<ScottK> Hmmm.  Did we do that?  hellboy195: what bug?
<hellboy195> ScottK: No. I just want to know WHY this decision was made. Someone told me that gimp would only arrive to gutsy through backports
<ScottK> hellboy195: Ah.  Well first, GIMP is in Main, so it wouldn't be a MOTU decision.
<ScottK> hellboy195: 2nd, we only change stuff after release to fix critical bugs and freeze taking new versions well before to make sure stuff gets tested.  When was it released?
<Lure> I have sru candidate for gutsy: if I understand correctly, after testing it myself, I just upload to gutsy-proposed and ask for additional testers
<ajmitch> ScottK: I believe it was released shortly after gutsy was
 * Lure thinks that universe sru rules are more complicated than main
<hellboy195> ScottK: gimp RC3 is in main but not the final. the final arrived a week ago. It was discussed to put it into gutsy-update but now I was told that I would only arrive in backports and this is stupid I thing. Btw gimp 2.4.1 was released --> bugfixrelease
<ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.
<ajmitch> Lure: how is it more complicated?
<Lure> ajmitch: the first step is not clear (at least on wiki)
<ajmitch> seems like we can't keep anyone happy
<Lure> ajmitch: it is not clear to me who decides what goes in -proposed: any motu?
<hellboy195> ajmitch: you mean me?
<ScottK> hellboy195: OK.  It's pretty normal not to update stuff.  If it was discussed to update it, I'd ask someone who was involved in the discussion (i.e. not me).
<ScottK> Lure: Any MOTU.
<ScottK> Lure: You will get teased if it's not tested before you upload it though.
<hellboy195> ScottK: thx becaue I think it's not good to push software to RC3 and than not to final. I can't see a sense here
<Lure> ScottK: no problem - I test even before uploading to my ppa ;-)
 * Lure had some retries on his ppa builds ;-)
<ScottK> hellboy195: OK.  It's unclear why you are continuing to argue with me about it instead of someone who knows about it.
<ajmitch> Lure: if you feel that the steps are unclear, please comment on it & propose a cleanup :)
<ScottK> Lure: That's very sensible, unfortunately not everyone manages.
<hellboy195> ScottK: argh sry.
<Lure> ajmitch: can I just add some clarification for prepare step?
<ScottK> hellboy195: No problem.
<ajmitch> Lure: yes
<Lure> ajmitch: I would just add "Any MOTU can decide for individual SRU and prepare the package for -proposed" as first bullet to Prepare section
<ScottK> Lure: I'd say add it.  Your clarifying the existing policy, not changing it.
<Lure> ScottK: exactly
<jdong> superm1: because MIT is living hell and undead hell too, all at the same time.
<superm1> jdong, i got really confused walking through the campus today actually trying to find the book store
<superm1> but it didn't *seem* like hell to me at...
<jdong> superm1: numbers are your friend...
<jdong> or worst enemy
<superm1> jdong, well you should make it out for at least a day of talks i say
<jdong> superm1: yeah, totally, I'll defintiely make an appearance tomorrow or Fri :)
<superm1> good
<joejaxx> jdong: !!
<jdong> ow!
<joejaxx> jdong: can you do me a favor? :D
<jdong> joejaxx: depends :)
<joejaxx> jdong: can you burn 3 discs for me? the bandwidth at uds needs to be spared
<joejaxx> :P
<jdong> joejaxx: haha, sure, what kind of discs?
<joejaxx> cdr
<jdong> sounds simple enough
<superm1> jdong, dont do it!
<superm1> its a trick
<jdong> lol
 * jdong opened up amazon and forgot what he was searching for...
<TheMuso_Boston> Try a trap.
<TheMuso_Boston> jdong: What he is about to ask you will likely go against all your morals. :p
<joejaxx> debian 4r1 disc 1/fedora7 livecd/ and the latest sidux installer
<joejaxx> all i386
<jdong> mmmkay, when do you want this by?
<TheMuso_Boston> TOLD YOU!!!!
<joejaxx> i can compensate you for the cdrs
<jdong> oh don't sweat the CD-R's :)
<joejaxx> jdong: whenever you come by :D
<jdong> joejaxx: ok, on my todo list :)
 * jdong decides to use... AZUREUS... to grab the ISO's
<norsetto> hey jdong, any news about prevu?
<TheMuso_Boston> Ok thats a trap in itself.
<TheMuso_Boston> :p
<joejaxx> TheMuso_Boston: getting azureus to install on ubuntu is a trap
<joejaxx> lol
<jdong> norsetto: sorry, been really busy, I saw the changes dropped that you described, will apply them when my blood pressure drops below 200 and resubscribe
<norsetto> jdong: I hope its not bars you talking about .....
<jdong> lol
<jdong> nah, those mercury unit thingies.
<superm1> jdong, did azureus finish on the buildd's for the gutsy backports yet?
<jdong> superm1: no, second build is STILL in queue, I just approved the backport anyway with justification taht there's no reason why it would not build.
<jdong> (no packaging or Java source changes since prev upload)
<superm1> jdong, you want me to beat up pitti?
<jdong> superm1: sounds like fun.
<jdong> :)
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> lol and firefox is still compiling
<jdong> you'd expect that out of Firefox though :)
<jdong> don't worry, compiling only takes half the CPU and RAM of the finished product
 * jdong ducks
<joejaxx> :P
<SWAT> I am using pbuilder and am getting this error when I install a package. What am I missing or doing wrong? -> update-binfmts: warning: unable to open /usr/share/binfmts/<somepackage>: No such file or directory, update-binfmts: warning: couldn't find information about '<somepackage>' to import, update-binfmts: exiting due to previous errors
<geser> SWAT: I haven't seen this before. Can you paste-bin the whole log till this error?
<ajmitch> SWAT: is it when you try & install a package that you built, or when building it?
<SWAT> building worked, I get it when I install the package
<ajmitch> so you're using something in the postinst that tries to update the list of active binfmts, but the file isn't being installed there?
<SWAT> seems that way (binfmts is in postinst and prerm)
<SWAT> I'm building wine from source (as a start) and that's the only thing that goes wrong
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> building it with your own packaging, or others?
<SWAT> I don't quite remember (it was late, I was tired and it was compiling, so I was satisfied). I'll try it from scratch again then
<ajmitch> what do you mean, from scratch?
<SWAT> .tar.bz2 from winehq
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> not using the winehq packages then?
<SWAT> I am just trying to get the hang of packaging, so I started with that
<SWAT> and no, I'm not using their packages
<ajmitch> starting with wine is optimistic :)
<SWAT> well, it works, (except for the binfmts thing)
<hellboy195> ajmitch: I'm using there packages. Are they good or bad?
<ScottK> hellboy195: The same guy that doesn the winehq wine package does ours too.
<ajmitch> hellboy195: they're fine to use
 * ajmitch is still using 0.9.41 from there :)
<hellboy195> ScottK: ajmitch : great :) no problems with them since years ,..
 * hellboy195 is still using 0.9.48 ^^
<wallyweek> hey! :)
<wallyweek> anyone willing to do some reviews?
<Lure> I suspect new packages from debian will apear in hardy, right? when does this initial sync complete?
<ajmitch> yes, they will, but are temporarily held in NEW
<ajmitch> iirc
<ajmitch> I think they may get a cursory check before being accepted
<Lure> ajmitch: ok, need to wait with ufraw merge until gtkimageview gets in hardy
<ajmitch> ok
<hellboy195> good night guys ;)
<Fujitsu> Grrr, why can lintian only see 500 binaries in the archive...
<SWAT> how do you package something that doesn't need to be compiled? (example: a set of example files etc.)
<pwnguin> SWAT: just omit the build step in rules and use dh_install?
<geser> SWAT: write some cp calls into debian/rules to copy them to the right location
<geser> or use dh_install for it
<SWAT> thanks guys :) (I'll have to use the rules because I use pbuilder)
<lamego> or just use a CDBS debian/rules 2 lines file and a  package.install file
<Megaqwerty> Could anyone tell me how I would go about running cmake in debian/rules? I'm still kinda new to this...
<geser> call it from the right target
<geser> debian/rules is a makefile which calls the programs to produce a deb in the right order
<Megaqwerty> geser: so, could you give me a site that would detail how to do it correctly? Or, better yet, could you show me the syntax? (My debian/rules was just generated from dh_make using cdbs, and that's as far as I got)
<geser> the syntax is of a normal gnu makefile and for cdbs see https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<Megaqwerty> thanks geser
<Megaqwerty> I'll check it out!
<geser> I don't know cdbs too good to know offhand which is the right target in cdbs to place a call to cmake
<Megaqwerty> geser: well, then let's assume for the moment I don't use cdbs. How would I use it regularly?
<geser> normally you would call 'make' inside the build target to start the build with the upstream makefile (perhaps after a configure)
<geser> replace this with a call to cmake
<geser> or whatever you need to call to get the software compiled
<lamego> Megaqwerty, there is a cmake.mk for cdbs around
<Megaqwerty> lamego: that'd be really convenient.
<lamego> Megaqwerty, http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/build-common-hackers/2006-July/002908.html
<lamego> it is used on some packages, but it is not yet provided at the system level
<norsetto> you know what?
<Megaqwerty> norsetto: probably not
<Megaqwerty> lamego: So, just copy everything from --next part-- down?
<norsetto> well, let me tell you: I'M GOING TO BED
<Megaqwerty> 'night norsetto
<norsetto> g'night all, the good, the bad and some of the uglies too
<norsetto> geser included :-D
<lamego> Megaqwerty, yup
<Megaqwerty> lamego: cool, thanks. Trying it out now
<chuck__> evening
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Hey Fujitsu
<pochu> Night all
<RAOF> Heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi RAOF
<bddebian> gnight pochu
<fernando2> hey bddebian
<_16aR_> Hello
<bddebian> Hi fernando2
<_16aR_> Where can I put everyone that participated to a project (even a 1 line patch )
<_16aR_> Into Upstream Author: category in debian/copyright ?
<_16aR_> or Into Copyright: category in debian/copyright ?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-01
<fernando2> _16aR_: into upstream author
<_16aR_> argh, someone just told me the inverse
<_16aR_> and to put the original maintainer of the project into upstream author
<fernando2> in Copyright: you need to put all copyright licenses of the source code
<Megaqwerty> Quick question: Does anyone know how I would get dput to work through a proxy?
<fernando2> Megaqwerty: export http_proxy and ftp_proxy vars
<Megaqwerty> fernando2: could you give me an example of the ftp_proxy var? (I know the http_proxy one is already set by Sys>Prefs>Network Proxy)
<Megaqwerty> fernando2: nvm, found an example on Google
<fernando2> Megaqwerty: export http_proxy='http:/user:pass@10.10.10.10:3128"
<fernando2> =)
<fernando2> ftp_proxy follow same syntax
<fernando2> gn
<lamego> _16aR_, by providing a patch the persons does not get copy rights over the entire source, unless the patch itself includes contents using a different copyright owner, on that case, yes you should list it on the copyright section also
<lamego> but I guess, a 1 line patch will not be copyrighted :)
<RAOF> Or is probably not copyrightable.
<nixternal> umm, I have just brainfarted, who do I subscribe again for a sync request? :)
<soren> You're motu?
<soren> Sorry, I forget.
<nixternal> ya
<soren> ubuntu-archive
<nixternal> ahh, I was right..thanks
<soren> np
<bmk789> hey persia: i got your email on the MOTU list and i was wondering if there was anything i could do (without programming or packaging experience) to contribute to hardy development
<bmk789> i do have a powerful server with some bandwidth to spare
<persia> bmk789: In terms of contributing to development, the best way is really to work on code or packaging.  In terms of supporting the development effort, there's a fair bit that would be helpful.
<persia> One thing that needs doing is to run the piuparts installation checker after the freezes.  Dktrkranz is currently estimating time requirements, and might be a good person to ask about how more servers / bandwidth could help.
<persia> There's also some documentation things that would be helpful.  One is looking at the list of software not in Sid from http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html, and discovering if there is a new upstream version available.
<persia> Another would be looking for software in the repository for which there are multiple versions (e.g. autoconf, python, wxwidgets, GTK, etc.).  Lists of software that needs to be adjusted, along with pointers to migration guides could be useful.
<Fujitsu> Hm, I wonder if it might be a good idea to turn MDT's notes feature on (displays comments per-package from a wiki page).
<persia> Fujitsu: That might be useful.  We'll need documentation on the comment format on the wiki page :)
<Fujitsu> I think the old wiki page is still there, even.
 * Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> It would be nice to have an mdt page in the style of ajmitch's RC bugs list, with a dynamic comment function.
<bmk789> thanks persia, ill look into those
<ajmitch> yes, I was looking at doing that when I revamped the bug list
<ajmitch> since the code for the bug list is partially shared with something ti did along the same lines of mdt
<Fujitsu> I guess it would be, yeah.
<ajmitch> I'm also moving hosting of it off my home system :)
<persia> bmk789: And just because it's often forgotten: one of the best ways to support the developers is to look over the bug lists, and try to consolidate the various reports into only those for which we can prepare a solution.
<persia> ajmitch: Do you have a hosting site already organised?
<bmk789> i see
<ajmitch> persia: I think so
<persia> ajmitch: Excellent.  I look forward to not feeling guilty about polling :)
<nixternal> hrmm, I don't remember piuparts running so slow in the past
<ajmitch> persia: yeah, it's a large page, and a slow DSL line
<persia> nixternal: How long do you think it should take to install/uninstall 20,000 packages?
<nixternal> I am not install/uninstall 20,000 packages, I am just doing 1
<Fujitsu> Will piuparts use sbuild if it's available? That should speed things up significantly.
<Fujitsu> s/sbuild/schroot/
<ajmitch> nixternal: buy some 15K RPM hard drives & use them with a decent hardware RAID controller
<nixternal> it will use pbuilder if you tell it
<ajmitch> then piuparts should be faster
<nixternal> sure, I will go do that right now
<Fujitsu> 15k SAS drives are nice and fast. Particularly in RAID10.
<LaserJock> we replace iceweasel references with firefox right?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: And hope it works, yeah.
<persia> LaserJock: Generally, but you might want to check with the #ubuntu-mozillateam folks, given that we also like gobuntu these days
<Fujitsu> We've only got a couple of packages broken because of that, IIRC.
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if an | would work
<LaserJock> right now I've got Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, iceweasel | iceape-browser | xulrunner
 * persia thought that should work unmodified, given xulrunner in hardy
<LaserJock> but will that work for Firefox?
<persia> Isn't the plan for firefox to either provides: or depends: xulrunner?  I forget.
<Fujitsu> Firefox 3 will be using xulrunner, but it won't work for current Firefox
<Fujitsu> persia: The latter.
<persia> Fujitsu: Hardy will have Firefox 3 by default, no?
<Fujitsu> persia: Presuming it will be released in time.
<Fujitsu> So we will soon be able to remove firefox without the world exploding :D
<persia> Hrm.  Someone should get an official opinion from the mozilla team
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> Probably asac, really.
<persia> Fujitsu: It may be that there is already an official opinion, and we just don't know, so others could also share.
<RAOF> You probably want xulrunner-1.9 for the depend, don't you?
<Fujitsu> True, that's what Gran Paradiso uses.
<persia> RAOF: Why?  Are there currently two versions of xulrunner shipping?
<RAOF> persia: Yes; xulrunner (which is 1.8 or 1.7) and xulrunner-1.9
<Fujitsu> xulrunner is 1.8, xulrunner-1.9 is 1.9.
<persia> Right.  Goal for next release (hardy+1): transition everything and watch it break :)
 * ajmitch cheers
<RAOF> I thought that was a _Hardy_ goal
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: do you want me to spend time on something for replacing mdt?
<RAOF> Since nothing currently depends on xulrunner, 'cause it does'nt work.
<Fujitsu> persia: Transition what? Only a Java plugin depends on 1.8.
<persia> RAOF: I doubt main will make it, and I'm certain universe won't.  We'll transition a lot, but hardy is more about things working than pushing the newest, shiniest code.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: If you want to, or I could try to post-exams.
<LaserJock> the plan for Edubuntu was to ship Epiphany for hardy
<LaserJock> no Firefox
<ajmitch> well I've already got a steaming pile of code here to revive if it's needed
<Fujitsu> persia: A goal for Hardy is moving things off firefox and onto xulrunner-1.9.
<persia> Fujitsu: If it's just one package, why is there versioning for a transition plan?  That's just silly.
 * RAOF doesn't know, either.
<Fujitsu> persia: I guess to avoid messing with the package from Debian.
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.  I meant *everything*, as in finish all the transitions in progress, and then spend four months trying to fix the resulting mess.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<LaserJock> but I need to figure out what to do with Gutsy so xulrunner is no help ;-)
<persia> (definitely a hardy+1 goal - hardy shouldn't be that broken)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What are you doing to Gutsy?
<persia> LaserJock: ping asac: he should have an answer you can trust.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: lots of things ... mwuahahahaha
<persia> LaserJock: Ah, for gutsy, yes.  Firefox is the answer.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: gnome-chemistry-utils/gchempaint
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Ah, messy.
<LaserJock> tell me about it :-)
<LaserJock> I spent the morning trying to figure out how to build stuff with static libs and misc other things
<TheMuso_Boston> Heya folks.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: A dynamically-generated, commentable, not-so-ridiculously-slow, likely more flexible mdt-like thing would be very useful. Particularly the commenting bit.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso_Boston.
 * persia seconds the call to ressurect ajmitch's super-mdt
<Fujitsu> versions2html is soooo slooow.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: and in ruby
<LaserJock> which wasn't helping me
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: ok
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I'm fairly sure those things are interdependent.
<ajmitch> not so sure about the 'dynamically-generated' bits though :)
 * Fujitsu hacked it up a bit, even without any ruby experience... didn't break it tooo badly.
<ajmitch> it could be expensive to do the version comparisons each time the page is displayed
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: What do you mean?
<persia> ajmitch: dynamically-generated commenting, etc.? perhaps.  The raw data process might only refresh less often.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Oh, I didn't mean like that.
<ajmitch> the rc bug list is a combination of processing a text file generated by a separate script, and comments stored in the DB
<Fujitsu> Just something better than the current comments system which scrapes from a wiki page hourly and gets caught in the next versions2html.
<ajmitch> I'd probably do the same
<ajmitch> ouch :)
<ajmitch> yes, that's easy to fix
<persia> ajmitch: The same as rcbugs would be a vast improvement over the current.
<ajmitch> I'm just trying to get mysql to cooperate on this system
<ajmitch> it'll have to sit in the queue behind a plone site that I have to get done ASAP
<ajmitch> hopefully not too far away
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Thanks.
<bddebian> Hmm, I assume pitti is asleep at this time of day?
<Fujitsu> bddebian: He'd be in Boston, so probably not quite.
<Fujitsu> Gr, lintian is really annoying if the process gets interrupted mid-run. It doesn't bother to check what it has done when you restart it, so you need to manually mangle its status files to get it to redo the bits it missed.
<ajmitch> persia: does http://motu.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs/ load any faster for you?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Fairly high latency still, but a lot faster.
<persia> ajmitch: Not noticeably, but I suspect that's a combination of Safari having a slow renderer and my not having loaded the previous page recently enough to be sure of my memory.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Seems faster to me than I remember before the Gutsy release.
<ajmitch> it's in the US
<ajmitch> it'd be hard to be slower, I think
<ScottK> That would likely help me...
<Fujitsu> wget says 3 times quicker.
<ajmitch> the DB has just been copied, and this will probably be just for testing for now
<ajmitch> so don't rely on stuff to stay around
<persia> ajmitch: Is that still targeting Gutsy?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I just copied stuff for now
<ajmitch> nothing more
<persia> Ah.  Good.  I was worried that the syncs somehow weren't including the bugs.
<ajmitch> a minor rework of the code & I'll have lists for whatever distro
<persia> ajmitch: That would be extra cool for the SRU team.
 * persia wonders who is a good contact for the SRU team
<Fujitsu> persia: There isn't such a team any more, is there?
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, there should be :)
<persia> e.g. someone should claim responsibility for trying to keep the current release working
<ajmitch> so a team of people to do stuff, rather than just approve
<Fujitsu> Like we're meant to have for security, but motu-swat is sorta dead.
<ajmitch> but being revived a bit
<persia> ajmitch: Well, maybe do stuff, but more 1) maintain a current release system to test things, 2) watch an RC bug list against the release system, 3) oversee and coordinate SRU efforts.
<Fujitsu> Hopefully, particularly with testing-security.
<tonyyarusso> Is it?  I subscribed motu-swat to a bug recently, and I'm pretty sure it got taken care of.
 * tonyyarusso checks
<persia> Fujitsu: Is that what motu-swat was?
<Fujitsu> persia: motu-swat was for universe security updates.
<Fujitsu> Now that Debian tracks and handles security issues in unstable/testing, it makes that sort of thing easier.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  security only.  I was thinking security + "cannot install", "segfault on start", "breaks on upgrade", etc.
<ajmitch> "munches my system"
 * Fujitsu takes a bite out of ajmitch's system(s).
<bddebian> hehe
<tonyyarusso> yeah, bug #155990 - someone caught it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155990 in drupal5 "Several security updates and bugfixes in Drupal 5.3" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155990
<nosrednaekim> is there a compiz team?
 * persia thinks it's called something like desktop-effects
<ajmitch> crack-fiends
<bddebian> hehe
<nosrednaekim> becase THIS so called "addict" wants some more compiz packages
<ajmitch> great
<persia> nosrednaekim: Best way to get them in is to package them
<nosrednaekim> yeah, wellI have dial-up and so I can't do packaging very well
<tonyyarusso> Hey guys, lamalex and Zelut are interesting in getting their feet wet in packaging-land, so you'll probably see them around a bit, and if you have time to offer some instruction/guidance give 'em a nudge.  :)
<lamalex> indeed I am
<persia> lamalex , Zelut: welcome.
<Zelut> I've been lurking here a few days since UDS started.. just need to find some time
<persia> For people interested in starting, I'd recommend looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=packaging.  It's a nice list of how not to do things, and finding the solutions allows one to learn one thing at a time.
<tonyyarusso> hehe, persia's making you learn and fix bugs at the same time!
<tonyyarusso> crafty
<tonyyarusso> Seriously though, it's a good point.
<persia> tonyyarusso: Not "making".  Also, I think it's easier to fix a package that mostly works instead of trying to start from scratch.
<tonyyarusso> persia: true
<Fujitsu> It's also of larger benefit to fix existing ones.
<Fujitsu> Because they're likely to be used, and don't cause a large maintenance burden afterwards.
<bmk789> night everyone, thanks for the help persia
 * Fujitsu cringes at 639 Ubuntu-specific packages.
<ajmitch> Zelut: good, you can take over the selinux stuff then
 * ajmitch can give up on it for good 
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<persia> Fujitsu: I was thinking, do they all have watch files?  If so, perhaps they're not so bad...
<Jazzva> TheMuso, TheMuso_Boston: I was looking at merges and I noticed that you are the uploader of axel. Is it ok if I submit this merge?
<Fujitsu> persia: Do any of them have watch files?
<Hobbsee> hiya
<Fujitsu> I wonder if I can pipe that list into DEHS...
 * persia thinks requiring watch files should be a REVU approval requirement
<Zelut> ajmitch: heh, I'll do docs and testing but that might be a bit greedy yet
<Fujitsu> persia: That's a good idea.
 * persia goes to find the wiki page to make it official
<ScottK> persia: Why?
<ajmitch> Zelut: nah, you've been soloing selinux so far, go for it
 * Hobbsee curses disappearing irssi and screen sessions.
 * ScottK is gonna disagree.
<nosrednaekim> Zelut: are you not the guy who does ubuntu-tutorials?
<ajmitch> hey Hobbsee :)
<persia> ScottK: So that we have some chance of identifying packages that need a refresh early in the cycle when we're not synchronising from Debian
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch!
<Zelut> nosrednaekim: I am
<ScottK> persia: OK.  Got it.
<TheMuso_Boston> Jazzva: I didn't touch it.
<TheMuso_Boston> I only uploaded it.
<nosrednaekim> Zelut: loved your latest article, but thats a bit off-topic :)
<ScottK> persia: I missed the distinction between requiring it for packages and requiring it for new packages we weren't getting from Debian.
<Zelut> ajmitch: hopefully the ubuntu-hardened list keeps picking up and we can get the policy working.. then I'll think about it.
<ScottK> persia: I do think that a process change must be agreed at a MOTU meeting though.
<Zelut> ajmitch: selinux has a way to go before its functional.. we had a sprint at UDS about it this week.
<ajmitch> yes, I know you did
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Sorry about that.  I'm just thinking the REVU guidelines: the other 13,000 packages should have one, but it's not as important.
<Zelut> nosrednaekim: thanks, glad to hear people still read the blog :)
<persia> ScottK: You're right.  I'll add it to the agenda.  Thanks for the reminder.
<TheMuso_Boston> Jazzva: As in, I only sponsored the upload for someone else.
<Fujitsu> Debian is getting watch files progressively - a lot do have them.
<ScottK> persia: For REVU, I agree.  Good.
<ScottK> persia: One of my goals for involvment in this cycle is to be a hardass about unagreed process change.
<ajmitch> joy
<persia> ScottK: I appreciate that.  Having someone watch the process change and make noise helps my goal of ensuring there is sane and progressive process change.
<Jazzva> TheMuso_Boston: I see... I'll ask the person last mentioned in the changelog then :). Thanks.
<TheMuso_Boston> Jazzva: No problem.
<ScottK> For those interested in watch files (persia and maybe Fujitsu) you might enjoy reading lamont's rationale for won't fixing the please add this watch file for postfix.
<persia> ScottK: reference pointer?
 * ScottK looks
<Fujitsu> persia: What is your opinion on packages like bkp?
<Fujitsu> (note last upload, and popcon)
<Fujitsu> (and not being in Debian)
 * persia is bothered by the lack of an Ubuntu platform, and hunts
<ScottK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postfix/+bug/129316/comments/7
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129316 in postfix "New watch file" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<ScottK> persia and Fujitsu ^^^
<Fujitsu> persia: Ubuntu platform?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Thanks, looking.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: That reason isn't valid for most of our Ubuntu-specific packages, which don't have a maintainer (or anybody at all) watching over them.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Agreed.  I just thought it was an amusing counterpart to the watch file parade.
<persia> Fujitsu: My current client is an Apple shop, and requests onsite presence.  As a result, I am limited.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Yeah.
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, lovely.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's why we need watch files.  Compare with http://opensource.polytechnique.org/debian/bkp_0.6.3-2.dsc
<Fujitsu> persia: Yeah, i saw that yesterday, but do we even want to keep it? Nobody uses it, and nobody has complained that it's three years out of date.
<Fujitsu> We can maintain the extra packages, or remove them if nobody uses them and there's little benefit. The latter is more efficient.
<persia> ScottK: Actually, when a maintainer is as active as postfix's, I don't mind that attitude.  This is especially true for packages well maintained in Debian.  On the other hand, for leaf packages in universe with maintainer as MOTU, I demand watch files as otherwise we forget.
<ScottK> persia: I think that makes complete sense.
<persia> Fujitsu: I agree, but I don't trust popcon.
<persia> Fujitsu: I think the policy for when to dispose of Ubuntu-only stuff likely needs some definition.  It might be nice to also apply those criteria when accepting new random stuff.  Personally, I'd like to see a very small amount of REVU activity that wasn't linked to some active external community.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, same with me.
<Fujitsu> We do need a policy, or we accumulate enormous amounts of unmaintained... crap.
<persia> Fujitsu: If you have some ideas for such a policy, raising them for the 9th November meeing might be a good time: we'll only have had one REVU day, so people shouldn't be too in practice :)
<ajmitch> what time is the meeting on the 9th?
<persia> ajmitch: 20:00 UTC
 * TheMuso_Boston should send out a reminder...
<ajmitch> ah, 9am on the saturday morning
<ajmitch> I may be awake if I'm lucky
<persia> TheMuso: So soon?  I'd wasn't expecting one until this weekend.
<Fujitsu> 7am on Saturday, should be doable.
<persia> It's 5am here, which is annoying
<bddebian> yikes
 * persia tends to go to bed early before such meetings
<TheMuso_Boston> persia: Well, yes, and I'll do one mid next week.
 * persia thanks TheMuso_Boston for dedication to the MOTU Meeting process
<TheMuso_Boston> persia: As much as I don't always enjoy doing it, I do it because it ensures that it gets done, and announcements are sent out, etc.
<ajmitch> uh oh
 * ajmitch hides from the LongPointyStick 
<persia> TheMuso_Boston: That's why you got a "Thank you".  If you enjoyed it, we'd all just think you were a bit odd.
<TheMuso_Boston> persia: ah ok.
 * persia suspects there is painful prodding happening somewhere else
<TheMuso_Boston> persia: yet at the same time, I don't want people to start assuming I'll do it.
<persia> TheMuso_Boston: You keep volunteering first :)
<bddebian> heh
<TheMuso_Boston> Yeah I know, but I don't want people to start thinking "Luke will do it, I need not worry"
<TheMuso_Boston> persia: If you have noticed, I have been saying lately that I'll do it if nobody else wants to.
<LongPointyStick> persia: no, there probably will be in future.
<persia> TheMuso_Boston: I don't think you need worry.  At least I'll do it if I'm attending and you don't.  Further, there are usually other volunteers when you don't make it.
<TheMuso_Boston> Ok fair enough.
<persia> Hobbsee: Just flexing then?
 * TheMuso_Boston tries not to think about that in a dirty way.
<ajmitch> TheMuso_Boston: that's a wise choice
<persia> TheMuso_Boston: Think about intimidation
<TheMuso_Boston> persia: If I'd not had a few beers earlier, it would be easier than it is.
<persia> TheMuso_Boston: Right.  Timezones.  My sympathies.
<LaserJock> we don't have a mozilla package?
<LaserJock> what's our equivalent to iceape
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: We killed off mozilla a couple of releases ago. I think we have iceape.
<Fujitsu> !info iceape hardy
<Fujitsu> !info seamonkey hardy
<ubotu> iceape: The Iceape Internet Suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.4-1ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 29 kB, installed size 84 kB
<ubotu> Package seamonkey does not exist in hardy
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<bddebian> !info internet-explorer
<ubotu> Package internet-explorer does not exist in gutsy
<bddebian> ;-P
 * bddebian kills the conversation again...
<ajmitch> that's ok, we're used to that
<bddebian> Aye :'-(
 * TheMuso_Boston is outa here. Night folks.
<ajmitch> bye
<Fujitsu> Night TheMuso_Boston.
<bddebian> Gnight TheMuso_Boston
<moquist> I'm making a moodle-standalone metapackage. Should I be editing the debian/control file of the moodle package, or of a new package that only contains a debian directory?
<moquist> LaserJock: ^^^^^^
<moquist> LaserJock: and hi!
<persia> moquist: It depends on several factors.  What is moodle-standalone intended to do?  Does it require any extra code beyond that in moodle?  Is there a reason it would be easier to maintain the package external to moodle?
<moquist> persia: not necessarily. I'm just having trouble with it and wondered if the metapackage was supposed to be created separately.
<moquist> persia: the 'moodle' package by itself will not install mysql-server or postgresql, and you must have one of them if debconf is going to successfully configure moodle for you.
<persia> moquist: That sounds to me like a problem with either the recommends: or the postisnt.
<moquist> persia: so moodle-standalone-mysql will depend on moodle and mysql-server, and moodle-standalone-postgresql will depend on moodle and postgresql.
<persia> moquist: Does moodle recommend: mysql | postgresql ?
<moquist> hehe... "postisn't"
<moquist> persia: yes.
<moquist> But we want the administrator to be able to choose a single package for installation and get a working configuration.
<persia> moquist: I'm not sure I see any benefit to moodle-standalone.  Unless the user specifically requests otherwise, a database engine will be installed when moodle is isntalled.
<LaserJock> well ...
 * persia seems to be having issues with sn vs. ns
<LaserJock> persia: the background is we're going to be shipping moodle in Edubuntu
<LaserJock> so we need a good way of doing this at installation
<moquist> LaserJock: you are now. :p
<LaserJock> without messing up everybody else
<moquist> LaserJock: I don't think -standalone is necessary for installation; preseeding can solve that
<persia> LaserJock: Can Edubuntu not just seed a preferred database?
<moquist> (unless I'm mistaken, which is very possible)
<LaserJock> that could be
<moquist> Recommends: is just for the administrator to read and respond to, yes?
 * persia generally disapproves of more package names: it tends to confuse people
<LaserJock> but we still were concerned about having a package for people to install
<persia> moquist: Not quite.  the package installation tools install all recommends: unless specifically told not to do so (this wasn't true for feisty)
<LaserJock> so *we* need to pick a db but people have a choice
<LaserJock> a problem has been that there were too much debconf questions
<moquist> persia: I ran 'apt-get install moodle' on a fresh gutsy the other day and it didn't work because it didn't install a database server, and Recommends: postgresql | mysql-server.
<LaserJock> and not everybody is going to have a db engine install prior
<Fujitsu> persia: The lintian run finally finished, and it looks like the results might actually be sort of sane.
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  So if moodle recommends mysql | postgresql, and edubuntu recommends: moodle. mysql then most users will get a working moodle/mysql, and picky administrators will get a working moodle/postgresql
<LaserJock> but Recommends are installed
<LaserJock> *aren't
<persia> moquist: For which apt?  apt-get only got updated recently.  aptitude and the GUI tools have been doing the right thing a little longer.
 * moquist checks
<LaserJock> persia: "right" is debatable ;-)
<LaserJock> right now in synaptic and apt recommends are only installed for metapackages
<persia> LaserJock: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/08/msg00000.html
<LaserJock> persia: yes, I know, but that's not Ubuntu
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yet.
<persia> LaserJock: I was fairly sure that Michael intended to also implement it here
<Fujitsu> We pioneered recommends-by-default, so why wouldn't we follow the completion of it in Debian? My *our* apt maintainer?
<Fujitsu> *By, damnit.
<moquist> LaserJock: it sounds to me like the -standalone packages aren't necessary, if apt in hardy will support Recommends:.
<LaserJock> it would appear not
<persia> moquist: Well, Recommends: by default, but not enforce it.  Still, meets your use case.
<LaserJock> we still need simplified debconf though
<persia> s//install/
<moquist> LaserJock: Yes, and I think that's a separate issue.
<moquist> bah. apt-ftparchive sources . complains "moodle has no source override entry / moodle has no binary override entry either". I've been reading the man-page but I don't grok it yet.
<persia> moquist: Your Section doesn't match expections, likely
<Fujitsu> moquist: You need to specify an override file, with lines in the form `package priority section'
<moquist> Fujitsu: I can't fix this just by fixing the Section: line under Source: moodle?
 * moquist notes that this seems to be a change in gutsy
<moquist> I didn't get these errors (warnings?) in feisty.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks for running that.  How bad do we look?
<Fujitsu> moquist: You might be able to, but I'm not sure.
 * moquist nods
<Fujitsu> persia: We have around 70 more sources with issues, but 220 fewer binaries.
<Fujitsu> I'll publish the results in a sec and set it to run regularly.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's excellent.  To be honest, I'm actually more concerned with the binary packages.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, they're what matter to most people.
<persia> Of course, most people seem to mostly run lintian agaisnt source packages, but that's another issue, for another day...
<Fujitsu> It looks like a lot of people don't run lintian against their packages at all, but..
 * moquist installs lintian
 * Fujitsu blinks.
<Fujitsu> Why do I see a maintainer "Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"
<persia> moquist: Install linda as well.  She looks at slightly different things, and doesn't whine as much.
 * persia hides in shame
<jdong> persia: is there one that fixes all the problems for you and cleans up your desktop icons too?
<moquist> persia: heh. thanks...I think.
<persia> jdong: Not yet, but if you have a candidate, I'd be happy to review :)
 * Fujitsu growls at dholbach.
<persia> Fujitsu: It wasn't me?  I thought I typed that once.
<LaserJock> oh wow, 3 each of lipia, amd64, and i386 for PPAs
<Fujitsu> We have a few variants on our maintainer:
<Fujitsu> Ubuntu MOTU Developer <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<Fujitsu> Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubunto-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
 * persia wants an ARM ppa
<Fujitsu> Ubuntu MOTU Devolopers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yeah, but only the old two are operational at the moment.
 * persia votes for Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubunto-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<persia> huh?  Never mind.
<jdong> ubuntos -- the brown mentos!
 * LaserJock pokes PPA with a stick
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why?
<LaserJock> I've got two packages I'm trying to get built tonight
<LaserJock> and they're stuck in "needs building"
<Fujitsu> Ah, yeah, the buildds weren't doing anything for several hours earlier.
<Fujitsu> I suspect something on cesium fell over when the new buildds appeared.
<LaserJock> hmmpf
 * persia suspects that the concentration of sysadmins in a single geographical location reduces uptime
<Fujitsu> persia: Not everyone is at UDS.
<LaserJock> I was going to announce my packages to the forums this evening
<Fujitsu> Spads isn't, IIRC.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  In that case, I'm wrong.  Hurrah!
<LaserJock> samarium looks toasted
<LaserJock> but thallium says Idle
<LaserJock> as is iridium
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: They're manual, no?
<LaserJock> bah, yes
<LaserJock> alrighty, I guess I'll give up on that for today
<Fujitsu> Unfortunately, everybody will be asleep now, including those in London. Convenient.
<LaserJock> the forums will just have to wait another day ;-)
<persia> Fujitsu: Is there normally a sysadmin on this side, or are they all European/American?
<LaserJock> who's American? Spads?
 * persia thought there was someone in the Montreal office
<Fujitsu> persia: AFAIK they're all in London. But I could be wrong.
 * Fujitsu checks.
<LaserJock> Montreal is not America ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: Yes it is.
 * persia used to live in the Americas, and is fairly well versed in the corrent and annoying inerudite meanings of "America"
<LaserJock> I think that's highly debatable
<persia> s/ent/ect/
 * ajmitch hugs Hobbsee 
<ajmitch> hello
<Fujitsu> persia: They're all listed as being in London, except elmo, and I know he is.
<persia> LaserJock: Yep.  Highly so.  Still, timezone-wise, it applies.  I don't consider African vs. European sysadmins to be meaningfully different
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Interesting.  Thanks for checking.
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see that that bhavi guy who tried to join every team in existence also tried to join ~canonical-sysadmins. Nice.
 * Hobbsee hugs ajmitch.  hiya!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: bhavi?  you mean there's another one?
<Burgundavia> persia: if you think Montreal is in "America", you have serious issues
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yeah, but this was a few months back.
<Hobbsee> ah, right
<Fujitsu> Yay, http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/lintian/universe/.
<Fujitsu> It seems to have actually worked.
<persia> Burgundavia: I'll claim SÃ£o Paulo is in America as well :)
<Burgundavia> it is in the Americas, yes, but not in America
 * persia doesn't understand Maintainer: (unknown)
<Fujitsu> persia: Neither.
<LaserJock> that's what we should do for MOTU :-)
 * Fujitsu notes he missed several DebianMaintainerField variants before.
 * persia considers bumping the upload count to consolidate all the errors
<Fujitsu> Aha, gtkgo is the one causing ubunto-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
 * Fujitsu thinks people should check that sort of stuff on upload.
<ajmitch> it's easy to glance at & miss
<persia> Fujitsu: people?  Why not tools?  Add a lintian rule that complains if one uses the case-insensitive string "motu" in Maintainer, and doesn't use the appropriate string (same for "core", I'd think).
<Hobbsee> i'm surprised that LP doesnt have a filter set up to reject those mails
<Fujitsu> persia: That's a good idea.
<Hobbsee> sorry, that the MOTU ML
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Which mails?
<Hobbsee> oh, my bad.
<Hobbsee> i'm misreading - thought you were talking about accepted mails to the list
<ajmitch> persia: dput hook :)
 * persia suspects mail in the queue of unaccepted mail
<ajmitch> refuse to upload if X,Y & Z conditions are not met
<persia> ajmitch: That's harder.  What about things like the creation of the Ubuntu MOTU Torrents Team as a maintainer?
<persia> Should dput first be patched?  I'd prefer advisories.
<ajmitch> what about it? just have a blacklist of common problems
<Hobbsee> of course, some of it are legitimate uses of not having the MOTU as the maintainer
<Hobbsee> for stuff like siretart's xine-lib, which the recent mail was about.
<ajmitch> yes, but misspellings are not legitimate
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Right, which is why we grep for motu first.
<Hobbsee> oh, of course.
<Fujitsu> I particularly like Maintainer: Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU...
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> yes
<persia> Fujitsu: Likely just cut & paste.  I know I've done that (although I am glad I don't appear to have uploaded the results)
<LaserJock> update-mime-database is run by dh_instalmime isn't it?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I think so.
<Fujitsu> It is.
<persia> LaserJock: You may also want to run update-desktop-database, for the MIME representations, depending on your MIME type.
<LaserJock> this package has a postinst and prerm script that looks like it just has the dh_* stuff in it
<LaserJock> so I'm thinking I should just get rid of them
<persia> LaserJock: Does the package also use the dh_* calls?  Are the final results broken?  Sometimes a maintainer decided dh_foo wasn't flexible enough, or hand't heard of it.
<LaserJock> they use dh_*
<LaserJock> it looks like maybe the added dh_* later and didn't realize they didn't need their maintainer scripts anymore
 * persia still suggests inspecting the resulting binaries
<LaserJock> man this stuff takes so long
<LaserJock> it's gonna take me all week to get one package done
<Fujitsu> Haha, in the lintian source:
<Fujitsu>         # Wookey really only has one name.  If we get more of these, consider
<Fujitsu>         # removing the check.
<Fujitsu> They've got an exception for this one maintainer who has just one name.
<persia> That's the spelunking software, isn' it.  Hrm.  I should look at that again: it needs porting to wx2.6
 * RAOF is a millionaire base-jumping spelunker
<persia> RAOF: Do you use any cave mapping software with Ubuntu?
<RAOF> persia: Yeah; I've got an integrated tablet PC built into my suit.
<persia> RAOF: Which package do you use?
<RAOF> Um, I can no longer continue the charade.
 * persia has been duped, and gives up on building a moral lcase for RAOF to do the port
<RAOF> You obviously didn't get the initial movie reference :)
<RAOF> Is it python?
<RAOF> NO!  Resist!
<Fujitsu> Which port is this?
 * RAOF really has to learn to not overcommit quite so much.
<persia> Fujitsu: survex-aven needs to migrate from wx2.4 to something more recent (2.6 is preferred by the aforementioned single-named DD so that it may be adopted by Debian).  The trick is that the survex maintainer doesn't want wx strings in the survex code, but only in survex-aven because of the ugliness of WX unicode handling.
<Fujitsu> persia: Ah.
 * Fujitsu must depart now.
<persia> heh
 * RAOF thinks it would be awesome if all cross-platform stuff currently using wx* was magically converted to cross-platform gtk
<persia> RAOF: converter scripts (yes, even in python) welcome :)
<imbrandon> ello all
<RAOF> Again, with the learning to not overcommit.  The correct response is *not* "hm... I wonder if that would be possible"!
 * persia thinks that's an excellent response.  Perhaps followed by "Let me see..."
<imbrandon> possible sure, gtk ? ugh, qt == <3 :P
<RAOF> How cross-platform is QT?
<persia> imbrandon: While I'm willing to believe the possibility of WX -> GTK semi-automated port, the backends of QT and WX are just far too different.
<persia> RAOF: More than GTK, and for longer
<RAOF> I knew it started out as more cross-platform.  It's just that I don't think I've *ever* seen a windows QT app.
<persia> RAOF: Internet Explorer?
<RAOF> What, really?
<RAOF> Heh.  Cross platform *with* integration :)
<Burgundavia> RAOF: qt was not free on windows until qt4
<imbrandon> RAOF, ther are tons of windows QT apps
<Burgundavia> opera is another good one
 * RAOF has been insulated, obviously.
<persia> RAOF: Now, here's the trick.  Find a closed-source non-Java non-QT app on Windows
<Burgundavia> but RAOF is right in that there were not Free QT apps until recently, as you needed a QT license to use QT on platforms other than windows
<Burgundavia> linux, rather
<Burgundavia> personally, I think the KDE people are chasing a rathole with KDE-on-windows
<persia> Burgundavia: No.  You could use the free QT license to develop for windows, as long as you wrote free software.
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, kinda, you could use the cygwin qt3
<imbrandon> to write gpl stuff
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, why? i run KDE ( native ) on OSX daily
<imbrandon> why not windows
<Burgundavia> because it is a lot of development work for little benefit
<imbrandon> native == !X11 port, but native QT on OSX
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, nah it is actualy very little changes, and most are in mainline kde svn
<Burgundavia> initial porting was probably easy
<Burgundavia> now have fun with all the corner case bugs that are going to popup
<imbrandon> you got to think, the base was already done for many many releases, QT, all that needed porting was a few things in ldelibs, then every kde apps works
<imbrandon> kdelibs*
<Burgundavia> umm, right
<Burgundavia> software development doesn't work that way
<imbrandon> kde apps very very very seldom work below the QT abstraction layer
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, ummm sure not all, but in this case yes, think how long QT has been on windows, almost 11 years if not more
<imbrandon> its not a "new" thing
 * RAOF wonders if hitting his students with sticks would prevent them from trying to integrate discrete varables.
<Hobbsee> unlikely
<Hobbsee> see, this is why i dont take maths.
 * RAOF wonders if hitting his students with *Hobbsee* would prevent them from trying to integrate discrete variables.
<RAOF> You come in an easy-to-wield pack, right? :)
<pwnguin> and fourrier transforms into a size suitable for storage in your backpack
<RAOF> As long as you cutoff the infinite tail?
<RAOF> Or is Hobbsee infinite in space and time? :)
<pwnguin> infinite in length but not area :P
<Hobbsee> RAOF: of course i'm infinite :P
<Hobbsee> RAOF: infinte, by the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! â¢
 * persia suspects the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! â¢ is not infinite
 * RAOF imagines a museum exhibit... "Hobbsee over the ages"
<pwnguin> Hobbsee: aren't you studying computers or something at University?
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: yes.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: although currently i'm doing physics, optoelectronics and computing subjects :P
<pwnguin> optoelectronics surely counts as maths
<RAOF> pwnguin: Only for {} values of "maths"
<RAOF> GAH!  This student has treated the continuous variables as discrete, and the discrete variables as continuous!
<pwnguin> set values of maths?
<RAOF> Empty values of maths
 * RAOF lets fly a mighty roar
<persia> RAOF: Just assume a regular pattern of reality shifts :)
<pwnguin> well, ive seen my roommate's optoelectronics book, and i declare it to have enough formulas to be math-worthy
<persia> pwnguin: Formula's aren't math.  Thinking about tea is math.
<pwnguin> I'll never understand australians
<RAOF> Formulas are almost anti-maths.
<RAOF> Also, 0^(-1/2) is not 0.
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> nullity
<RAOF> I wonder if these people keep a specially insulated "test brain" in a sensory deprivation tank and only take it out in order to write stupid crap that I have to mark.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: very rarely.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: in so far as using a calculator, yes.
<pwnguin> my roommate had an entire sheet of formulas he took into the test
<pwnguin> in rather small handwriting
<pwnguin> i dont pretend to know EE
<Hobbsee> there are forumulae, though
<RAOF> pwnguin: This is indicitive of them knowing what the hell is going on, not their ability/need to do maths.
<imbrandon> when did math become plural ? heh
<RAOF> imbrandon: Always in !USA :P
<pwnguin> imbrandon: its a british thing
<pwnguin> and australian, by transitive properties
<RAOF> pwnguin: In the same way that it's American by transitivity? :P
<pwnguin> you clearly dont understand the Algebra of Nations
<RAOF> pwnguin: Any time that you're working in a field where they know enough to make quantitative predictions, there'll be huge, ugly formulae.  This is not maths :)
<pwnguin> RAOF: also, remember that students likely spend more time in the test than they give themselves for the homework. "oh crap, that's due in 50 minutes from now"
<RAOF> pwnguin: Homework?  _What_ homework?  We don't give any homework.
<Hobbsee> tutorials?
<RAOF> Tests, and more tests!  Then exams!
<Hobbsee> which must be predone?
<pwnguin> well that makes sense now
<pwnguin> your students are idiots because they've never had to take the time not to be
<RAOF> Hobbsee: For a value of "pre-done" which closely approximates "glanced at the book that contains it"
<Hobbsee> haha
<persia> RAOF: Isn' t that just extra work for you?  You could send them home with tests, and make them mark it at the next recitation.
 * RAOF suspects this appoximation is exact as the number of students approaches infinity.
<Hobbsee> "oh look, why did everyone get full marks?"
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> we had someone do that for a psych recitation class
<RAOF> What's even better is that someone has done this test quite well... and not put any identification on it _at all_.
<pwnguin> the dumbass TA basically brought the whole class before the honor board when they did the enevitable
<RAOF> Ah, teaching.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: oh, i've been known to do that - although that was only including my student #, and not my name
<pwnguin> the algebra of nations: America + Britan == 0
<pwnguin> its very similar to the algebra of computer design
<pwnguin> Intel = -Motorola
<pwnguin> whenever intel makes a design, motorola sees that and does the opposite
<RAOF> pwnguin: So, which nation is 0?
<pwnguin> it may have been wrong of me to bring up things like numbers
<RAOF> Indeed.  Also, is it an actual algebra, a ring, or a field? :P
<pwnguin> but ... antartica?
<pwnguin> its probably a field
<pwnguin> because if you take something and add america to it, it gets smaller ;)
<pwnguin> actually, i havent studied number theory enough to know the difference aside from the math nutters nearby joking about it
<RAOF> So it's isomorphic to a Z mod p, or Z mod p^n :)
 * imbrandon explodes
<pwnguin> anyways, im tempted to say that austrialia is zero, because if you add britian and australia, you wind up with britain again
<pwnguin> spelling is not my strong point, i dont think
<RAOF> Actually, all the elements are idempotent: country + country = country.
<pwnguin> you heard it here first: RAOF declares Austrialia idempotent
<pwnguin> RAOF: i should dig up some code people submit in undergraduate Operating Systems
<pwnguin> they have four weeks per project and still go wildly wrong in some cases
<RAOF> That at least has the benefit that it compiles, surely.
<RAOF> It's at least syntactically correct.
<pwnguin> well, one hopes
<pwnguin> its -30 percent if it doesnt
<pwnguin> and you likely wont be getting full credit in such a case even if it DID compile
<pwnguin> my favorite was the "use a Condition Variable as part of a condition variable"
<pwnguin> so what does new Condition() do? it sets up some local variables, and then calls new Condition()
<RAOF> Stack space is for pansies, I say.
<RAOF> Terminating recursion is boursoise.
<pwnguin> there you go
 * RAOF is utterly incapable of spelling that.
<pwnguin> the compiler can do some pretty good optimizing tricks
 * Hobbsee attempts to figure the gnome-hearts merge.
<pwnguin> but it cant optimize away an infinite loop
<persia> Hobbsee: gutsy gnome-hearts doesn't work at all: please fix it when you merge :)
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, i just noticed it didnt work in gutsy
<Hobbsee> persia: looks like we can take debian's, which will likely break again, or go with upstreams.
<Hobbsee> but, i thought the gnome people put the same packages into debian and ubuntu
<Hobbsee> or at least, close to it
<persia> Hobbsee: I suggest going with upstream, as we've upstream gnome-games for the cards, but I hope you'll keep the rules change for the jack of diamonds.
<Hobbsee> persia: the round the moon?
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Last I checked (several months back), upstream penalised you for jack of diamond for round-the-moon.
<Hobbsee> persia: ah right - so the cards package is in our gnome-games, and not accidently synced from debian?
<persia> Hobbsee: I thought so, but my memory is fuzzy, and I was only working on the code by proxy (for someone who is now no longer active)
<Hobbsee> ...why are there no icons on my desktop?
<pwnguin> because you asked it to hide them?
<RAOF> Because you're using nouveau & a composite manager?
<pwnguin> or perhaps nautilus crashed
<persia> Hobbsee: Open up somewhere from Places... : it might just fix it.
<Hobbsee> ah, so this was a mistake in stopping nautilus from starting up
<persia> Hobbsee: Well, unless you don't want a desktop shell :)
<imbrandon> wow multiarch live boot cd's ? nice
<Hobbsee> well, i'd like my dsektop icons.  i'd guessed it was a preloading thing for nautilus
<warp10> Hi all
<Hobbsee> right.  a non-broken version of gnome-hearts.
<coolbhavi> hello please synchronise my keys so that I can start uploading packages
<coolbhavi> hello please synchronise my keys so that I can start uploading packages
<persia> coolbhavi: You've joined the team?
<ion_> Does it echo in here?
<coolbhavi> yup contributors of ubuntu universe
<persia> coolbhavi: Great.  Unfortunately, most of the REVU admins aren't around right now.  I'd suggest asking for a keyring sync in either 4 or 12 hours (unless someone wants to contradict me)
<coolbhavi> Ok some days back I had asked the same and they told it would be over by an hour
<persia> coolbhavi: In that case, it's probably done.  Have you tried to upload your candidate?
<coolbhavi> How to check the keyring sync?
<persia> coolbhavi: Checking is really frustrating, and only admins can check.  It7s very rarely done - it's easier to sync again.  Try uploading.
<coolbhavi> Whats my login?
<coolbhavi> and my pass
 * ajmitch can sync now
<persia> coolbhavi: Your login will be assigned to match the email in your changelog when you upload.  Once you've uploaded, you can recover your password with your key.
<coolbhavi> ok can i login with my mail id and password?
<ajmitch> keyring will take a few minutes to sync, just started it now
<persia> coolbhavi: What did you upload?
 * persia thanks ajmitch
<coolbhavi> I want to upload a package apt write
<coolbhavi> How to do it? Please help
<persia> coolbhavi: Have you read the wiki page about uploading?
<coolbhavi> No Link please
<RAOF> coolbhavi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<persia> coolbhavi: Use RAOF's link :)
 * RAOF suspects he just beat persia to the punch
<coolbhavi> I already have the deb package then what to do?
<persia> coolbhavi: Ubuntu doesn't accept binary uploads.  You'll need to upload the source.  That wiki page explains how.
<imbrandon> wow , qemu without acceleration on a p200 is painfull
<coolbhavi> Ok source means I have a perl script.. again Should i rebuild?
<persia> coolbhavi: You'll want to build a source package.  `debuild -S -sa`
<persia> imbrandon: What are you emulating?
<imbrandon> x86, just tesing a livecd
<imbrandon> err live-iso
<imbrandon> :P
 * persia imagines imbrandon wrestling with a wrathful plastic disc, intent on having him for dinner
<imbrandon> heh
<persia> imbrandon: For special pain, emulate a PowerPC and test the liveCD :)
<imbrandon> i think i'm gonna call it a night on it though, i just got dropped to a busybox tem on boot
<imbrandon> persia, hehe i have before, infact ...
<persia> imbrandon: On your PII200?
<imbrandon> i have setup a scratchbox env to build deb packages using qemu-ppc emulation to cross compile
<imbrandon> is a P1 200
<imbrandon> yes
 * persia thinks imbrandon needs the build farm back
<imbrandon> lol the scratchbox was on the build farm
<imbrandon> it was just to see how hard it would be to make ppc packges on a x86
<imbrandon> not very fun
<persia> Right.  Umm.  Magic better build farm?
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> its slowly getting back there
<imbrandon> i have some hardware laying arround and some more on the way
<imbrandon> i'm takin my time this time though to make sure it dosent all blow up overnight like last time
<coolbhavi> Ok got it.... If we want to upload a update of an existing package What to do?
<imbrandon> and actualy DESIGN the network and infra
<persia> coolbhavi: In that case, you probably want to upload a debdiff to a bug.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing/
<coolbhavi> Got it
<coolbhavi> Thanks
<persia> imbrandon: No rush.  Something good is far better than something now.
<imbrandon> yea thats my thinking , last time it wasent
<persia> imbrandon: At the time, I suspect something now was better than something good: wasn't that prior to REVU, PPA, and all the other nice things we have now?
<imbrandon> no i mean last time, i just threw some things up, not worring about quality as much
<imbrandon> and yea it was prior to PPA and much of the new scripts but not
<imbrandon> REVU
<imbrandon> ugh, live-helper is great but .... ummm ... a bit buggy
<imbrandon> probably works great for Debian, not so much if you plug ubuntu packages in
<s1024kb> persia: Hello
<s1024kb> persia: nice to meet you again
<persia> s1024kb: Hello.  I'm about to head off: if you seek something specific from me, please tell me now :)
<s1024kb> persia: excuse me, what did you mean?:)
<s1024kb> persia: i am very happy to meet an old friend (old enough? haha) here
<persia> s1024kb: My apologies for the confusion.  Nice to see you again.
<s1024kb> persia: imagine when a person knows nobody in IRC... when he/she meet one who he/she had ever chatted with, he/she will feel very happy...:)
<s1024kb> persia: It's afternoon here in China, i had just finished my job.
<persia> s1024kb: Ah.  I understand now.  It's a bit later here, so I'm just leaving.  Have a good evening.
<Hobbsee> ...we're doing what now?
<Hobbsee> as if MOTU didnt already have enough to do
<Hobbsee> http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/10/ubuntu-forums-ubuntu-development-programming/
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: with more people, we'll have less to do :)
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: yeah, but i'm interested in using our resources for people who can be trained usefully.
<Fujitsu> Did I miss the bit where we were told this might be happening?
<Hobbsee> as in, get useful people, rather than people who either a) drain MOTU, or b) give up, when they realise that it's hard.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's as good as done.  the expectation will now be on the forums, and the MOTU will get bitched at for not answering all the packaging queries.
<Hobbsee> all discussed with...it seems...1 member of MOTU?
<Hobbsee> based on how they go for testing stuff out, and providing useful things on the forum for that (or not), i cant see the packaging would be any better, when it's an order of magnitude harder.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: One member of MOTU, or just dholbach?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: dholbach is a member of MOTU
<Fujitsu> He's.. sort of special, though.
<RAOF> Sorry, what?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, but he cant make a commitment on what the MOTU will do like that.
<RAOF> The forums don't seem like a particularly awesome place for that sort of stuff.
<Hobbsee> with any sort of real expectation that we'll jump on board.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yeah.  just read the link.
<Fujitsu> RAOF: You'd think not.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's what I meant. He's not exactly representative of the MOTU community.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, indeed, but i think he's attempted to act as one there
<Hobbsee> ah, here's the implementation:
<Hobbsee> Implementation
<Hobbsee>     *
 * Fujitsu is reading it now.
<Hobbsee>       Possiblity of some approved MOTUs to moderate the packaging forum.
<Hobbsee>     *
<Hobbsee>       Scott Ritchie (YokoZar) has volunteered to moderate the forum
<Hobbsee>     *
<Hobbsee>       Provide a link to the forum in the MOTU IRC subject topic
<Fujitsu> Steps for moderation: delete, delete, delete, delete.
<Hobbsee> a)  no one will do it
<Hobbsee> b)  great.  there's 1.
<Fujitsu> Erm...
<Hobbsee> c)  everyone will ignore it.  if they cant get new packages done off revu, what chance do we have of forums stuff?
<Fujitsu> Why the heck do we want to send people *to* the forum?
<Hobbsee> hahahah :)
<Hobbsee> because the forum sheep refuse to come to us.
<RAOF> I do my share of pointing.
<Hobbsee> see, this is the problem - we dont just want to recruit people - we need to recruit *good* people.
<Hobbsee> and doing it in a forums place is definetly not a good medium for that.
<Fujitsu> Not Joe "wooot i'm going to package new compiz on crack" Random.
<Hobbsee> exactly
<RAOF> Maybe a forum *could* be a good place for some form of mentoring, though.  A nice shared place with easy markup, etc.
<Hobbsee> oh, why does it break when i do it with checkinstall?
<RAOF> Indeed.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: doesnt help much when people don't search.  or RTFM.
<Fujitsu> Or use checkinstall.
<Hobbsee> even when pointed to the page.
<RAOF> Most of the people on the forums don't want to make an Ubuntu-quality package.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they think all packaging gets done with checkinstall
<RAOF> They just want their stuff, *now*.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: most?  i'd guess for all
<Hobbsee> exactly
 * RAOF was on the forums first.
<Fujitsu> RAOF: You seem to have recovered well.
<Hobbsee> oh, that nutter is posting about his new distro again
 * Hobbsee flamed the hell out of him when he queried her :)
<RAOF> What, he queried you?
<RAOF> It seems totally misjudged.
<Hobbsee> oh yes
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Who?
<Hobbsee> he queried a whole bunch of people, who were prospective developers
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=598026
<Fujitsu> Ohhh, forums.
<Hobbsee> samfisher - when he had no forums post at all
<Fujitsu> I haven't read them in a long time.
<RAOF> So nothing good will come of it, basically.  The best we can hope for is for it to distract people who would otherwise distract *us*.
<Fujitsu> Um, lovely.
<Fujitsu> Sounds really productive.
<RAOF> Heh: "Poll: is SMART data reliable".  Well, that seems like the proper use of democracy :)
<Hobbsee> well, they have a wallpaper!  isnt that the start of *any* perfect new distribution?
<ion_> raof: Haha
<RAOF> Fujitsu: Indeed.  Also, absolutely, totally unlike Debian.
<broonie> Hey, the Ubuntu wallpapers were good marketing for Ubuntu!
<Fujitsu> The reason I am not working on Ubuntu is because there are numerous problems that are difficult to resolve and integrate because it is already there and stable, if you know what I am trying to say? I'm not sure if that is very clear though...
<Hobbsee> The nerds will come to you but youâve got to work your ass off first. No one, absolutely no one, who is any fucking good will come near your project if its nothing more than a few airy ideas.
<ion_> Poll: is rainy a weather?
<RAOF> Also, will use RPM for KDE, and dpkg for Gnome (because apparently KDE is made by redhat)
<Fujitsu> RAOF: That's what I thought when I saw the poll, yeah.
<Hobbsee> exactly.
<Fujitsu> Ooh, I want to join the project as an assembler!
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> RAOF: oh *nice*.  i never got that far.
<Hobbsee> *snort*
<RAOF> Hobbsee: I have a low interest threshold when marking.
<zul> what are we bad mouthing now?
 * Fujitsu laughs at the Contact page.
<RAOF> zul: desktop-linux
<zul> RAOF: ah url?
<Fujitsu> `Web Help' is a decent subject for a support email? I see.
<RAOF> desktop-linux.org
<Hobbsee> zul: the forums, us helping them package, and desktop-linux
<Hobbsee> zul: which is from the forums, and just says there will be a perfect linux distro, with no details as to how.
<Fujitsu> Must... implement... SIGECUTE...
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: But they have a wallpaper!
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: and that's what *really* matters
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Or even what perfect means, in this context.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Duh.
<zul> why would you need "Assemblers"?
<Fujitsu> Oooh, their main focus is installation!
<RAOF> Or even what current distros do badly.
<Fujitsu> Our Linux project aims to fix all the problems of other distributions and still be a powerful Linux. Our main focus will be on installation.
<ajmitch> because ubiquity sucks, right?
<Fujitsu> Haha:
<Fujitsu> Poll: [Idea] Can we lay off the polls?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Obviously.
<RAOF> Heh.  Everyone should build stuff as root, all the time.
<ajmitch> RAOF: you don't?
<ajmitch> what is this world coming to?
<zul> i like their announcements
<Hobbsee> RAOF: now go read my reply
 * ajmitch hunts for a link
<Hobbsee> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3683057#post3683057
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ah, a sane response in that downgrading thread!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it was first via a privmsg - and then the guy started the thread.
<ajmitch> harsh
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: better harsh now, and them not poaching devs, and getting people to go do something useful instead
<Hobbsee> although, Kmos might like it - lots to do, no mention of QA.
<ajmitch> heh
<Hobbsee> probably no trouble with getting upload rights at all.  might be a good fit.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: what?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: see http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3683057
<lamego> Kmos, ignore it, is the always funny *i know it all*, *you suck* mentality
<Hobbsee> now, i wish i knew it all.  but i dont.
<jpatrick> I found this on their forum: "I personally like Ktorrent. I am not sure if that relies on KDE though."
<lamego> just has funny and smart as the new desktop-linux.org
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: yay.  well, that's very legitmate - because they're probably not sure what their definition of kde is, too.
<lamego> Hobbsee, anyway, you like to pick someone to show you know *more*
<RAOF> "To work perfectly, we will be using a scratch system."
<Kmos> lamego: hehe
<Hobbsee> lamego: sorry?
 * zul ducks
<RAOF> On the other hand, scratch apparently doesn't include package management.
<Hobbsee> AUTOMATIX FTW!!!
<Hobbsee> this is automatix v3 under another name?
<jpatrick> "Yes, I think one of the main things keeping users away from Linux is package systems. " - idiot
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yay!
<RAOF> Awww, it's so cute: http://desktop-linux.org/forum/directx-10-gaming-for-linux-t39.html
<RAOF> "We should totally implement directX 10"
<Hobbsee> would be nice.  implement it somewhere useful, like in wine.
<Fujitsu> jpatrick: Oh? I know all the people I introduce to Linux from Windows would prefer to locate and compile their own software from scratch. Don't you?
<RAOF> Hobbsee: They're already on it, thankfully.
<jpatrick> Fujitsu: my dad is quite happy with apt since he started Kubuntu 4 days ago :)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yay!
<lamego> Hobbsee, your particular non sense of inserting Kmos into your own jokes, could be interpreted as lack of respect, but because we all signed the CoC, I am sure and it was just bad humour :)
<RAOF> Hobbsee: In fact, I think that the wine guys are going to try to do DX10-on-Windows, too.
<Hobbsee> lamego: not at all.  i know Kmos likes being im multiple projects, and that may be one that he's interested in - based on how he's been acting in debian and ubuntu so far.
<Hobbsee> lamego: would be the kind thing to do to pass it on, if i suspect he's something he's interested in, no?
 * Hobbsee counts.  RAOF, jpatrick, zul, Fujitsu, ajmitch...how about we all hit the sponsorship queue?
<Hobbsee> get it down to a reasonable size again
 * ajmitch is crashing
 * Hobbsee ponders....does respect for people also mean that they follow their processes?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You'd think so.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: You can count me in on Sat, but for now, I really need to enter marks, go home & sleep
<zul> hmmmm
<Hobbsee> RAOF: okay.  you're still at $work?
<Hobbsee> zul: you have no excuse :)
<RAOF> $uni, yes.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: where your $workplace == $uni :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I have the excuse of it being after midnight
<zul> Hobbsee: sure I do, A. I just woke up B. Im still not dressed C. I have to feed liam D. I have to go to work, take your pick ;)
<lamego> Hobbsee, let me interpret your question, Ubuntu and Debian can be compared to desktop-linux or whatever, as a motivation for someone to participate at ? That was you reasoning ?
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Yeah.
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: could you +1 aplg's squash on revu?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed.  have a good sleep
<Hobbsee> zul: sigh.  you people make bad excuses :)
<ajmitch> night
<zul> Hobbsee: heh
<Hobbsee> lamego: nope.
<Hobbsee> lamego: and to be honest, i'm rather sick of you attempting to paint the worst picture of me that you can - when it's not true.
<zul> oh crap...
 * zul ducks and cover
<lamego> uh, sorry "<Hobbsee> because the forum sheep refuse to come to us."
<lamego> meeee
<Hobbsee> lamego: oh, are you a forums person?
<lamego> I am not painting anything, i am being factual
<lamego> Hobbsee, I was, for support, when i had the time
<Hobbsee> lamego: i didnt realise.  by "forums sheep", i actually meant those who are on the forums only, and who believe that everything is done on ubuntu in a forum - albeit a hidden one.
<Hobbsee> lamego: based on the fact that your'e ehre, i doubt that's you.
<Hobbsee> i'd say most of us likely started on the forums, and then left it for bigger and better things.
<lamego> Hobbsee, ok, so I should feel better now, unlike last year which I was a sheep :)
<Hobbsee> lamego: well... :)
<Hobbsee> lamego: you're doing getdeb.  you're still stacks ahead of most people, in actually doing productive things in the area of ubuntu
<Hobbsee> lamego: how many posts do you really think could have been avoided, on teh forums, if people had searched first?
 * persia thinks that's the nature of forums
<lamego> Hobbsee, well, how many quetions would have been saved if all people knew how to use google ? That is human nature, something you can't change accord yo your own experience
<lamego> according
<Hobbsee> why does my own experience tell me that you cant change human nature?
<Hobbsee> i seem to have missed that part, and your arguments seem to be mighty weak.
<Hobbsee> but this is true.  googling is a skill, and i wish more had it.
<Hobbsee> or learnt it.
<lamego> you are somehow classifying forums as a "lower" resource, more likely to attract less skilled people
<Hobbsee> have you seen evidence to the contrary?
<lamego> no, I totally agree with you, however, less skilled, also means, hopeful skilled people
<Hobbsee> which, unfortunately, means that they need to make the jump between forum, and non-forum mediums.
<persia> lamego: Hopefully skilled is great, and learning is great, but doesn't it make sense to learn by fixing some of the open bugs, rather than arbitrary packaging and forum discussion?
<lamego> skilled people is already "in use" :P
<Hobbsee> (because they will have to at some point, as we cant implement all development stuff effectively on the forums)
<lamego> persia, actually I don't agree with packaging & bug fixing as a common task, packaging is for packages, distribution integrators, bugs, are for upstream providers, developers, which care about their core (the app) and not about the integration with a particular distro
<Hobbsee> there are skilled people in many places.  those who know how to prioritize, learn, etc, tend not to be on forums - or active on forums - as they dont post, due to searching.
<deadwill> mornin' ubunteros
<Hobbsee> hiya deadwill
<lamego> developer skills are usefull for packaging, but not a key requirement, understanding makefiles and install process is not app evelopment
<persia> lamego: Ah.  My experience is that many bugs are related to packaging, and the rest are small.  Feeding patches upstream is one of the ways I define "skilled".
<deadwill> Hobbsee, :)
<zul> heh the forum users should just fork everything
<Hobbsee> zul: forumbuntu?
<Hobbsee> ubuntu forum remix?
<zul> Hobbsee: sure whatever turns your crank
<Hobbsee> zul: it would be interesting to see how far they got though.
<zul> Hobbsee: sure i wouldnt use it though
<Hobbsee> you make the assumption that it would release.
 * zul must go do option C
<RAOF> Ah, the not-awesome part of webmail.  When it breaks into hundreds of shiny, sharp pieces and all I want to do is *go home*!
<Hobbsee> muhahahahaha.  [22:17] <Ganneff> yada has to die, its worse than old debmake
 * Hobbsee agrees!  rid it from debian, so we can easily rid it from ubuntu!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: perhaps someone should introduce the concept of yada on the packaging forum?  :)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: no ssh into uni?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yes!
 * Hobbsee waves to EtienneG
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: which will have nice side effects, of course.
<EtienneG> hello Hobbsee !
<Fujitsu> Like causing all the forum packagers to die?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: haha. no
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Am in uni.  Plenty of SSH out, and in, but it doesn't help when I was *composing* a message.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: ah, true
 * RAOF makes a run for it anyway.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: was thinking if you went home, and didyour uni work from there
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no - it just wouldnt ever build in ubuntu - nor get accepted due to it.
<Hobbsee> EtienneG: at UDS again?
<lamego> persia, packaging bugs are most likely caused by less skilled people, the forum type of people which does not have an use for that particular problem, if they become experienced, then they will leave the forums and help you with the bug fixing
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ah, true.
<persia> Does anyone happen to know the dctrl-tools magic to generate a list of reverse build-depends?
<Hobbsee> persia: erm, let me look
<EtienneG> Hobbsee, not this time
<lamego> Junior teams are very important, even for major all-star senior teams :)
<EtienneG> Hobbsee, are you ?
<Hobbsee> EtienneG: oh, i thought you were an employee
<Hobbsee> EtienneG: nope
<Hobbsee> lamego: assuming they actually get good, at some point.
<EtienneG> Hobbsee, yes I am, however, I am not a dev (support analyst)
<Hobbsee> EtienneG: ahhhh.
<Hobbsee> EtienneG: so you work with kurt?
<Fujitsu> Only distro/Launchpad is at UDS, right?
<persia> lamego: I'm not sure I agree with forum people == less skilled people, but that aside (and no, I don't want to discuss that uncertainty), I'm not sure of the value of any packages produced by individuals for whom one cannot be confident that packaging bugs can be fixed.
<EtienneG> Hobbsee, hopefully, I will participate once a year, but since I was in Seville, I passed on this one
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso_Boston.
<lamego> Hobbsee, well, if you don't get juniors, you never get seniors, unless you expect someone else to handle the juniors for you :)
<EtienneG> Hobbsee, yep, I am Kurt's colleague
<Hobbsee> persia: grab http://damianv.com.ar/downloads/rbuildepend
<Hobbsee> EtienneG:
<Hobbsee> EtienneG: " You Poor Bastard"
<Hobbsee> :)
<TheMuso_Boston> Hey Fujitsu.
<persia> Hobbsee: Cool.  Thanks.
<EtienneG> Fujitsu, yes, pretty much, although we have a couple of support people from Mtl there too
<Hobbsee> lamego: yes, but it's not a grading.
<TheMuso_Boston> Not long got up, and doing my morning mail session. :)
<lamego> persia, ah, and you believe that you (the team) can actually provide fixes for the entire *universe* ?
 * persia waits for the transpacific lines to cleear
<Hobbsee> persia: the grep-dctrl lingo i can never remember, although it says in here.
<Hobbsee> and i think i wrote a rune for it, in my list of useful runes
<persia> lamego: I believe the team can do that, but I also believe that the team is constantly growing.  I don't see value in division: we are all one team.
<Fujitsu> The team has to, and the team normally does.
<persia> Hobbsee: Yep.  That's my problem too.  I have a list of useful arcana, but still treat it as a grimoire
<Hobbsee> hehe
 * Hobbsee greps it.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: in conjunction with debian
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: True.
<persia> Hobbsee: Absolutely
<Hobbsee> persia.meet( luk__ )  && luk__.meet( persia )
<persia> luk__: Hi!  Nice to meet you :)
<Hobbsee> luk__: have you seen persia's recent mail on QA to the motu mailing list?
<lamego> persia, at the cost, of out-dated packages :)
<luk_> hi persia
<luk_> yes, I should still answer something I guess ;-)
<persia> lamego: That's the nature of division.  If everyone packaging was packaging towards the same goal, that problem wouldn't exist.
<Hobbsee> persia: luk_'s one of the debian release managers, and interested in qa collaboration between debian and ubuntu.
<persia> luk_: Actually, that mail was more targeted towards getting tools to get a handle on the problems.  We're still a long way behind when it comes to understanding what needs to be done :)
<luk_> lol
<lamego> persia, not really, the goals are not always compatible, and there are not enough resources to cover all the goals
<Hobbsee> lamego: there rarely are.  although ubuntu+debian don't do too badly.
<persia> luk_: In terms of sending back, I'm still trying to think of a good model: monolithic packages isn't scaling, and telling everyone who submits a patch to Ubuntu to also submit one to Debian is pushing a lot of useless / meaningless patches into the BTS.
<luk_> btw lucas did some piuparts run for Debian, but I still need some time to coordinate filing the bugs
<Hobbsee> and getdeb, etc, is a help
<Hobbsee> assuming people want to go browsing for each new version of each new app that htey want
<persia> In terms of pulling from Debian, I'm hoping that once we can track stuff, we'll be able to adopt more of the existing Debian fixes, which should go a long way towards freeing resources to actually test stuff, and develop useful patches.
<lamego> Hobbsee, I am not saying we are bad, I am just saying we can be better, we as, in ubuntu/debian, insert your prefered distro here :)
<Hobbsee> lamego: agreed.  we can always do better :)
<persia> lamego: Well, I'm uncertain about resources.  I agree about goals.  However, I argue that separation of focus leads to inadvertent duplicate work, which means that someone's effort is wasted.  By coordinating more closely, a greater total sum is accomplished.
<luk_> that's why I'm interested in coordination of the efforts
 * persia notes that my argument with lamego is in miniature a reflection of Debian's argument with Ubuntu, in some ways
<Fujitsu> persia: That's true, to an extent.
<lamego> I do have that Debian vs Ubuntu in my pocket for some future getdeb flamewar :P
<Hobbsee> persia: excluding those who attempt to go back and fix it each time.
<persia> luk_: As I see it, there are a few things to consider: 1) How to preserve valid Ubuntu/Debian variation without increased confusion;  2) How to make sure that QA efforts on both sides are shared smoothly; and 3) How to avoid culture clash (maintainer respect vs. raw collaboration)
<Hobbsee> bdmurray: ping when you wake up.
<Hobbsee> bdmurray: i'd like a bughelper rune done please.
<persia> Hobbsee: I'd disagree.  Even where the Ubuntu and Debian packages are managed by the same person, there is frequently duplicated work due to the intentional differences between the distributions.
<Hobbsee> persia: as in sync requests
<Hobbsee> yes, perhaps.  main, more so, due to the rosetta exports
<TheMuso_Boston> There was actually a discussion about this sort of colaboration between MOTUs and Debian at Fosscamp on the weekend. There were a lot of people involved, including people from core-dev, slangasek, and one or two people who are involved in Debian.
<persia> Hobbsee: Main more so, yes.  Parts of universe in reflection, and parts of universe due to attention.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso_Boston: i'm oh so glad that this was a public discussion, able for anyone to attend :)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso_Boston: did you have a list of things from it?
<luk_> persia: well I want to focus on point 2 for now...
<TheMuso_Boston> Hobbsee: Not really, it was just an informal discussion. Nobody was taking notes or anything, and unfortunately there was no outside discussion via VoIP afaik.
<persia> luk_: I'd agree that is the appropriate focus for our discussion, I just wanted to make sure that the other two were mentioned towards an understanding.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso_Boston: *nods*.  thought that might be the case - like the launchpad discussion in sevilla.
<persia> luk_: From the Ubuntu side, a lot of our coordinated efforts currently surround FTBFS, NBS, and unmetdeps.  I'm hoping we can expand that to piuparts stuff for this cycle, but I'm not confident we'll get much farther.
<luk_> NBS?
<Hobbsee> luk_: not built from source
<persia> Our uncoordinated efforts are much wider, but given that they are uncoordinated, I'm less sure how to develop a plan to share without running into other issues.
<Hobbsee> (binaries)
<persia> luk_: NBS: leftover binaries due to library soname transitions, architecture changes in control, etc.
<persia> luk_: In terms of those coordinated efforts, how can we best feed you?
<luk_> I guess in Debian they are taken care of by a decruft run by ftp-masters
<persia> luk_: We also do decruft, but as we don't have sid/testing we need to make sure there are no rdepends first, so there's a bit of API porting, etc.
<luk_> ah ok
<luk_> what do you exactly mean with feeding me? results/patches of test runs or do you mean tools/people? :-)
<persia> luk_: I wasn't thinking specifically of anything: more that we generate variance to fix FTBFS, port rdepends for NBS, and various adjustments for unmetdeps.  This variance can be expressed as patches.  It might also be able to be highlighted in some way for attention.  How would Debian QA most like to receive this work?
<persia> luk_: Also note that not all of it applies to Debian.  Examples include python2.5, WX2.8, kernel variations, etc.
<Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/DeveloperWeatherReport is starting ot look interesting.
 * persia hopes universe is reported (perhaps on a second page)
<Hobbsee> i think they're still trying to figure out *what* to do
<luk_> well knowing where to look for particular kind of issues would be a start, in Debian most of these are found on http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/collab-qa and http://qa.debian.org/debcheck.php
<persia> luk_: For debcheck, we usually target http://alt.qeuni.net/~william/debcheck/, although historically `apt-cache -i unmet` is more common.  If Ubuntu has a fix for Ubuntu, should that be a BTS entry?  Should someone be notified?
<lamego> gst.ElementNotFoundError: playbin <- any idea ?
<luk_> debcheck is mostly used for Recommends and Priority, though the last one lacks manpower
<persia> lamego: The pipeline is broken, and can't figure out how to play the stream.
<lamego> hum, I am running inside a schroot
<luk_> If there is a fix for a Debian issue, a bug report with a patch attached would mostly be appreciated
<persia> luk_: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/collab-qa looks like a collection of tools to me.  I'm happy to try to organise running them against Ubuntu, and getting people to patch stuff, but that comes back to how to get stuff back.
<luk_> yes, it's a collection of tools which are run mostly by lucas
<Repsa_Jih> Hmm, I have a question about contributing packages to the universe repository.
<persia> luk_: That's actually where we're lacking people most.  From what I understand both the DCT and Utnubu teams get excited each Debconf and UDS, but have difficulty coordinating closely (Utnubu tends not to be MOTU and DCT tends not to be DD), and fail to find the time to actually troll through the variance.
<Repsa_Jih> I packaged my game- i think I did it correctly.
<Repsa_Jih> I used dput to upload it
<persia> Repsa_Jih: See Preparing new Packages in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<Repsa_Jih> It returned 'Succesfully uploaded packages' and then 'Not running dinstall'
<luk_> if we would have some central repository where we can track version information next to the issues, it might be easier to coordinate the fixes
<Repsa_Jih> Yeah, I read most of that.
<persia> luk_: There are a few factors at work: 1) testing Ubuntu fixes against Debian, 2) sending the patches, 3) getting them applied to Debian (at least from this perspective)
<persia> Repsa_Jih: That's the expected output.  It looks like the upload worked.  It should show on REVU in about 10 minutes.
<Repsa_Jih> Oh, allright :) Thanks :)
<Repsa_Jih> Another, thing, are there any 'lists' or 'requests' of applications that need packaging or upgrading?
<persia> luk_: That actually sounds great.  Ideally something that could grab different types of bugs from both LP and the BTS, organise by package, and allow for dynamic commenting.
<luk_> persia: in general yes, though for most of the issues of these runs it should be trivial to see if they fix the issue in Debian AFAICS
<ScottK> Hobbsee: The MOTU/Debian discussion was part of fosscamp.  It was public to everyone at fosscamp (I was there too).
<persia> Repsa_Jih: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
<Repsa_Jih> Thanks
<lamego> Repsa_Jih, what is your game ?
<luk_> persia: yes, that would be great to have
<Repsa_Jih> Annchienta, http://annchienta.sf.net/ a adventue 2d rpg
<persia> luk_: Depends.  If the package has no variance, testing the patch against sid is easy, but the solution may need to be different for Debian, given different base packages.  If the package has variance, the patch needs to be altered to apply to the Debian package, and then again may not work.
<Repsa_Jih> *adventure
 * persia seeks a volunteer to draft a base spec (no, not a blueprint) on how a LP & BTS collaboration report site might work
<ScottK> persia: But this is not the usual case.
<Repsa_Jih> Lamego: sorry I can't seem to send private message because I am not registred here.
<lamego> ah
<Repsa_Jih> I'll register, hang on.
<lamego> ok :)
<persia> ScottK: I'm not sure about that.  Trolling the RC buglist right before release, I found that only about 50% of the Debian patches solved the issue for Ubuntu.  I'm not sure it wouldn't be the same in the other direction.
<lamego> or just provide me a link for your building rules :)
<persia> lamego: Wait a few minutes, and it will be public on REVU :)
<luk_> persia: we are only talking about FTBFS and unmet dep issues, right?
<ScottK> persia: OK.  Most of the time when sending stuff back to Debian, I know up front if it's a good fix for them or not.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: right.  which no one was told about prior to fosscamp :)
<persia> luk_: I'd think also NBS, just to speed your various library transitions, but sure, we can only talk about FTBFS and unmetdeps.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: fosscamp didn't have a plan in advance.  Each day people just wrote on the board what they wanted to do.
<persia> Hobbsee: fosscamp deliberately didn't have an agenda.  Some people there decided to talk about that.
<lamego> persia, depending on the package complexity and quality I may be publishing it at the same time it gets the first comment on REVU :P
<Hobbsee> fair enoguh
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It was mostly getting to know each other kind of discussion.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: guess a mailing list post wouldnt have been appropriate, about "we're having a discussion on this now" either - too many people == unproductive discussion
<luk_> unmetdeps should be mostly trivial and FTBFS that are not toolchain specific should also mostly be trivial to see if they would apply for Debian or not, no?
<persia> lamego: See, that's an example where collaboration could be useful: if it met the requirements for distribution, having you add a +1 would get it in faster.  If it doesn't, having you add the first comment explaining why would get it in faster.  Having you publish it means that someone else still has to do what you did.
<ScottK> The most useful thing I got out of it was the notion that when dealing with Debian, you aren't dealing with an organization, but a bunch of individuals, so how you approach it and how it goes will vary widely.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: right, yes.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I also got a DD to agree to sign my key so I can start NM.
<luk_> lol
<Hobbsee> you said.  well done :)
 * ScottK is now feeling motivated.
<persia> luk_: The operative word is should.  While many of us are likely to make best efforts, I'm just worried about a flurry of random "Doesn't work with python2.5" bugs from those who aren't as careful.
<ScottK> As, right.  Forgot.
<ScottK> As/Ah
<luk_> yes, Debian is mostly a bunch of individuals, though luckily there are also some teams ;-)
<lamego> persia, I am not a MOTU, I am reviewing every getdeb package, a la getdeb, which may is not Ubuntu QA, the packages which I am 100% to be Debian QA, are merges
 * ScottK goes to make coffee.
<lamego> for those, there is not much to review :)
<luk_> persia: well you said something about faster library transitions ;-)
<persia> lamego: Right.  That's good work.  Doing it for Ubuntu would be better, as it frees up more resources for more people.
<lamego> persia, Right, but I prefer to do it for getdeb, because I can do more things, and I have a greater control of the entire release cycle
<luk_> what's a getdeb package? I guess I should read some more documentation :-)
<persia> luk_: While it doesn't always work, we tend to try to port things to newer APIs sooner.  That's an area where I'm more worried about cultural clash: we tend to work well with Debian teams, and some maintainers, but others tend to be vocal.
<persia> luk_: An unofficial repo with newest upstream compiled against most recent stable release Ubuntu.  Policy compliance is variable, but the packages tend to work.  There's a small team maintaining it.
<persia> lamego: Sure, it's just that when you do it that way, your effort has no benefit to Ubuntu.
<lamego> persia, let's not go into the "outside of the community" again, how does an Ubuntu user using getdeb differs from a Ubuntu user using the repositories ?
<lamego> persia, why not ? the building rules are all available, that is the packaging work
<persia> lamego: From a user perspective, not much.
<lamego> persia, from a developers perspective, the work is available, it may not be good enough for some projects, it may be for others
<persia> lamego: Because it still needs the reviews, etc.  Further, often things don't work against the newest development stuff (because they are targeted at the released version).  Lastly, there often appears to be duplication of work done in Debian, which makes for double review.
<lamego> you are not talking about work, you are talking about labor
<lamego> i mean, MOTU labor
<Hobbsee> lamego: from a user perspective, the ability to get automatic program and security updates.
<lamego> Hobbsee, that is an acknowledge limitation, being worked
<persia> lamego: Right.  That's why I said you would contribute more to Ubuntu by commenting on REVU entries: that means more hands, more can get done.
<persia> lamego: Essentially, if we're all one team, keeping all of universe in shape is easier.
<lamego> persia, universe aims development, getdeb aims current release, there is no enough people giving attention to the "current" release, from an users perspective
<luk_> persia: is there some documentation about all the tools used for Ubuntu QA and where to find them and their results?
<lamego> packaging is not all about a distro upgrade and security fixes, not from a end users perspective
<persia> lamego: I agree that not enough people are following the current release.  On the other hand, I think I like the method backports uses better: first get it into the development release, then compile against the current release, then get a couple people to test it, then put it on everyone's workstation.
<persia> lamego: No, that's a small portion of packaging.  packaging is about making sure users have good software to use, and that the software can be installed and uninstalled cleanly, and that the software is well integrated with the rest of the system.
<lamego> persia, I don't have numbers to argue on this, but I am not sure how efficient back ports are, from a throughput perspective
<persia> luk_: Not really.  The closest would be the thread starting https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-October/002600.html, although we've a couple more bits filtering in.  I'll likely update https;//wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO (or some subpage) with a more complete list this weekend.
<persia> lamego: As I understand it, that's largely a matter of 1) not having very good advertising, and 2) not having very many testers.  I think backports needs a good web interface, some publicity, and a bigger testing team.
<Fujitsu> Having backports easily enabled, and not upgrading to backports packages by default, would be a good start.
<lamego> persia, I agree, if that happens getdeb can focus only on emerging packages, which are not going into the dev release
<persia> Fujitsu: Wasn't someone looking at setting the right variables in Release.gz?
<Fujitsu> persia: We know the variables to set, but it will require going through a couple of years of Soyuz quarantine, probably.
<persia> lamego: That only creates differentiation.  Why not also get the packages into the development release, and perhaps also into Debian (if they are interested)?
<persia> Fujitsu: years?  That's painful.
<lamego> anyway, the concerns for packaging into dev, are very different, there you need to care about toolchain changes, policy changes, a lot of changes you dont need to address when packaging for current
<Fujitsu> persia: You know how quickly LP moves, particularly new features suggested from the outside.
<lamego> a backport can be much more time consuming then just packaging for current
<persia> lamego: Actually, the toolchain changes tend to be minor, and the policy is there for a reason: we really don't want to break things (including the law)
<Fujitsu> Policy isn't just there for the sake of being there.
 * persia seeks a report from a backporting MOTU regarding the relative difficulty of backports
<lamego> persia, because, providing the same QA levels, with the current small team (was 1 person at the beginning) would mean, 1 release/week or/day, something which is not compatible with a software portal
<Fujitsu> lamego: So don't duplicate the work. Join the normal team?
<persia> lamego: Right.  You can't do it alone.  Join the team, and we'll do it together.
<ScottK> persia: It's generally quite easy.
<lamego> persia, I mean, packaging policies, like moving to python-x.y, dropping php4, etc
<ScottK> persia: Where it gets tricky is packages with lots of rdepends.
<lamego> persia, I am not alone any longer, a few people have joined
<persia> lamego: bring them all: we can certainly use the help.
<luk_> persia: ok, I'll try to create a complete list of tools used and their results and issues within Debian QA during this month
<persia> lamego: One of the things I'd really like to see for Hardy is a team focused on making sure that it gets a full suite of support, including security, SRU, and backports.  Currently, there have been no volunteers to drive this.
<zul_> persia: because its a lot of work?
<deadwill> people love SRU
<deadwill> :D
<persia> luk_: That would be great.  If you could tell me where it ends up (mail is fine, if IRC is awkward), I'll try to get you a list of equivalents (or get them created).
<Fujitsu> The Debian security tracker should be able to be integrated-with, which will help with security support.
<lamego> uff, I give up, the differences are so clear, and you keep looking at it is the same work but just done on a different team :P
<Fujitsu> SRUs, well... we need a million people to triage bugs.
<ScottK> lamego: There are differences, but there is also overlap.
<persia> zul_: It's not actually that much work, it's more that most devs run the development release.  Having active people using the current release (and, even better the LTS release) makes it fairly easy.
<luk_> what are the issues with SRU?
<deadwill> luk_, is not an easy/practical task to deal
<Fujitsu> luk_: Well, we need to identify the issues and work out if they're SRU-worthy, and then actually do them.
<ScottK> luk_: It's not unusual for an SRU to sit in proposed for a long time due to lack of testers.
<lamego> persia, I don't find such work appealing, specially SRU  which is great for enterprise managed environments and for core components, but an adoption blocker for home users universe
<Fujitsu> ... how does SRU block adoption?
<persia> lamego: Sure.  It needs more people.  Like I said, security, SRU, and backports.  I suspect you'd be of great benefit in backports, and would have good advice for those working on SRUs as to whether the new upstream fixes the issue properly, or it needs a target patch.
<luk_> ScottK: where can I see what issues are identified and what issues need testing etc?
<lamego> Fujitsu, when you can't provide users with key required features which were introduced after the release freeze, because of processes or because of lack of human resources to handle such upgrades
<Hobbsee> or because they may break other things.
<lamego> you bough this new gadget yesterday, which is only supported by the new upstream release X.Y, that will not go though SRU
<Hobbsee> which is why the SRU is in.
<Hobbsee> sure, but there are backports.  and that sounds kernel-ish.
<ScottK> luk_: Look for bugs tagged verification-motu-needed to see where Universe SRUs need testing.
<persia> luk_: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+bugs is an example URL for gutsy.  Adjust the URL to suit.  It's not a perfect list for various reasons, but it's fairly close.
<lamego> Hobbsee, right, I trust more on some upstreams than I trust on some SRUs, it all depends on who manages such upgrades, it depends also on the upstream QA :)
<Hobbsee> lamego: indeed.  which is why we test too - for the case where upstream's QA fails.
<ScottK> lamego: When was the last time an SRU was published and caused regression?
<Hobbsee> if upstream's QA is good, then it should go fairly well.
<Hobbsee> and quickly
<Hobbsee> particularly universe
<persia> lamego: Actually, for universe packages, gadget-foo only supported by upstream X.Y is sometimes considered, especially for upstreams with good QA.
<lamego> persia, sure, the cost to develop a specific patch for an SRU, versus adopting the new upstream release which includes much more, is sometimes much higher compared to the effort of fixing any regression that you may be afraid to introduce
<lamego> specially, being an universe package, and a non disruptive or blocking regression, which you would identify during the package validation, or, on a timely manner
<Fujitsu> lamego: It's better to not have regressions at all, rather than be trying to fix them later.
<persia> lamego: Depends on the upstream.  We often publish new upstream versions (especially in stable release series) for SRUs.  What we try to avoid is changes in behaviour - we don't want to break the user workflow.  For new features, we use backports.
<lamego> Fujitsu, I could argue that, you don't have regressions, you have tons of bugs which were fixed upstream :)
<Fujitsu> lamego: Right, then you find the patches that fixed them. Look at them. Note lack of regression potential.
<lamego> how do you handler for example, game upgrades, which include the core network game changes ? is anyone insane enough to provide such a patch without going through an upstream release backporting ?
<Fujitsu> No.
<Fujitsu> Backports handle that.
<Fujitsu> I don't think I've seen an SRU for that sort of things.
<Fujitsu> *thing
<persia> lamego: Those are generally cases where we want to push a new upstream.  Depending on the available servers, that may be a backport, or it may be an SRU (usually backports, as the process is faster)
<lamego> right, on this particular case (there are others), SRU will keep a dead application on the repositories :)
<lamego> I mean dead, because game servers, and windows gamers, move to the next version ;)
<lamego> replace windows with others, to avoid OS comparison :P
<persia> lamego: Why?  If the change to the network protocol is small enough to warrant SRU (or even -security, in some cases), I don't see how it would be dead.
<lamego> persia, the network changes may not be small, and usually depends on other game features = new upstream release
<lamego> anyway, this was just an example on for several cases, SRU may be a limitation, from an user's perspective, I clearly understand it's purpose from a QA perspective, specially if you are aiming enterprise
<persia> lamego: Right.  If it's too big for SRU, we use a backport, and integrate for the next release.
<persia> lamego: The important point is that *both* SRU and backport should be available, to reach all audiences.
<lamego> persia, you could do it, but it is not being done, on a proper published form, it is not reaching the users
<persia> lamego: Right.  We need advertising and testing.  Wanna help?
<lamego> persia, I am doing it already, at the cost of the things that you get from backports, like working first on the dev release, do you want to help :) ?
<luk_> are the packages listed on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html#universe the ones that need more testing?
<zul> /m/msg Hobbsee around still?
<zul> doh..
<Fujitsu> luk_: Quite possibly. I hadn't seen that page previously.
<persia> luk_: They could well be.  I'm not sure how often that gets updated, and it doesn't reflect things that were rejected, but haven't been pulled from -proposed.
<Repsa_Jih> I have to go, bye
<lamego> persia, and don't get me wrong, I hope backports get into shape, there is a lot to be done on Ubuntu, it getdeb becomes irrelevant, next :)
<persia> lamego: Actually, I'm fairly poor at packaging new software: I'm not sure I'd be a good candidate.
<lamego> I have seen there are some blueprints for Hardy which aim to improve Ubuntu's software distribution
<persia> lamego: I'm not sure I agree that getdeb should become irrelevant.  You've built a really nice UI, and a strong mirror system.  I'd just like to see more integration.  Specifically, 1) getting all the new stuff in getdeb into the repos & policy compliant, 2) making sure there is infrastructure to support security for getdeb, and 3) sharing resources with backports.
<deadwill> This release of the ATI Catalystâ¢ Linux driver introduces the following new features:
<deadwill> #  Support for Accelerated Indirect Rendering (AIGLX)
<deadwill> wowww
<deadwill> finally
<deadwill> :)
<lamego> persia, the problem is just one, lack of time and resources, but yes, we are working on it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GetDebPlan
<hellboy195> deadwill: that was 2 weeks ago O_o
<deadwill> hellboy195, heh, i only see that right now
<luk_> persia: why are rejected items still mentioned is that a bug in that page or are rejeced packages still in -proposed?
<persia> lamego: I like to see that.  I'd encourage you to look at pushing all the stuff not in Ubuntu into REVU (multidistrotools might help), and pulling from backports where possible to leverage those efforts.
<hellboy195> deadwill: ^^. another 2 weeks and the new one arrives ;)
<ScottK> luk_: Proposed generally doesn't get cleaned out.  Rejected stuff is generally not in *-proposed, but often stuff that's already been published is.
<tuxmaniac> hello All. Can someone please tell me why I get this error during a pdebuild. I suppose I have libxft-dev and the necessary dev packages mentioned int he control file http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1569/
<tuxmaniac> the control file is pasted here http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1570/
<persia> luk_: As ScottK said, but also that removal from -proposed requires archive-admin attention, which is not always as available as we might want :)
<persia> (and people forget to file removal bugs to ask for the attention)
<luk_> hmm that feels like home (read Debian) :-)
<persia> luk_: Yep.  For any distro, only so many people can actually have that level of access, or it all breaks down.  Unfortunately, there's not enough of them (and a fair number seem to be shared between us)
<tuxmaniac> somebody aroud?
<lamego> persia, we use a different approach for reviewing, http://wiki.getdeb.net/Automated_Build_System for the building, and launchpad bug records for the reviewing process communication
<StevenHarperUK> Hi any MOTU's doing review on the REVU server today?
<persia> tuxmaniac: Sorry.  Too many things at once.  I'm not sure of the specifics, but it looks like a library split.  Look for a libxext (or similar) library.
<tuxmaniac> persia, no problem
<tuxmaniac> :)
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Yes, but you're unlikely to have easycrypt reviewed.  Your last request was < 15 hours ago, and the previous < 8 before that.  Please request less often, or wait for a REVU day.
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: i wonder if you actually need libxft* itself - not the dev package
<StevenHarperUK> persia: yeh I asked 2 times yesterday as the channel was so quiet
<StevenHarperUK> persia: this is my once only request today
<StevenHarperUK> persia: thanks for checking thou :p
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Check irc.ubuntu.com :)
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Also, to be fair, I'm in a different timezone than you, so my day doesn't match yours :
<persia> )
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I am sure my persistence will pay off, I am trying to contribute
<persia> lamego: I think that's a great model, and likely results in good packages.  I was really just hoping to see that once you'd accepted something, if it wasn't in the archive, it also went to REVU so it could be included.
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: You just showed up at a bad point in the release cycle.  It'll pick up in the next week or two.
<lamego> need to go now, I hope to continue this conversation other day :)
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Your contribution is appreciated.  However we impose the 1/24hr rule (which sometimes means less than once a local day) in order to keep from being inundated with requests.  Persistence is good, but so is patience.
<persia> lamego: OK.  I'm really interested in coordination (although I can't help with that stuff much), so please ping me anytime to continue.
<lamego> ok :)
<StevenHarperUK> Ok waiting......
<zul> hey jono
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Thanks.  Personally, I think the package is getting in much better shape, and that it may well likely get approved in the next REVU day (as long as you don't bump into the "too many requests" rule) :)
<jono> hey zul
<ScottK> Although asking more often (after you've fixed stuff) during a REVU day is generally OK.
<StevenHarperUK> persia:its only improved because of how helpful you motu guys are.
<persia> Ah.  Yes.  ScottK has a point.  During REVU day, anyone with an updated package should ask for each update.
<StevenHarperUK> Is it Nov the 5th : the next one?
<ScottK> If that's Monday, then yes.
<StevenHarperUK> Ace I can't wait.
<porthose> how can I tell if my package has been imported from debian? :)
<persia> porthose: rmadison vs rmadison -u ubuntu does a good job.
<persia> porthose: You could also check http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html
<porthose> persia: thanks
<Zelut> can anyone tell me why I can tab-complete a kernel-patch-openvz package but when I try to 'show' or install there is no such package available.
<MarcC> How can I get in touch with the person who built GIMP for Gutsy?
<persia> Zelut: What does apt-cache search kernel-patch-openvz report?  That might have a hint.
<persia> MarcC: You can't: everything was built automatically.  What would you ask them if I had a different answer (perhaps we can help)
<Zelut> persia: I get this: vzctl - server virtualization solution - control tools
<MarcC> weellll...actually I thought that GIMP wasn't correctly finding the number of CPUs on a system
<MarcC> but now it turns out the upgrade to Gutsy lost one of my cores :-/
<Zelut> persia: and if I 'show' on that package I see this in the long description:
<Zelut> OBSERVE! You need a Linux kernel patched with openvz support. You can use the package kernel-patch-openvz to build your custom Linux kernel.
<MarcC> ...since GKrellm and Java both report 1 processor now too
<persia> MarcC: That sounds more like a kernel issue or a BIOS issue (or possibly a hardware issue, although I doubt it).  Were I you, I'd report a bug.
<ScottK> MarcC: You probably want #ubuntu for support.
<MarcC> thanks persia
<MarcC> ScottK: I asked there but honestly, it's too crowded, my question got lost I think. But I know this is not a support channel.
<ScottK> MarcC: If a CPU is missing, then it's likely kernel.  If you want to hang out on a relevant development channel, that'd be #ubuntu-kernel, but I'd suggest spending some quailty time with Google before asking there.
<MarcC> Thanks ScottK
<MarcC>  it turns out that menu.lst for GRUB got changed so that the correct Kernel is no longer default. Thanks for the help.
<ScottK> No problem.
<persia> Zelut: My apologies: I'm not finding the LP page I want.  It's somewhere around https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vzctl/.  There should be information about binary packages; I suspect the control file needs a patch.  If you can fix it, please submit the fix.
<geser> Zelut: the kernel-patch-openvz not included in Ubuntu (like other kernel-patch packages) as it won't apply on the Ubuntu kernel and Ubuntu doesn't want to maintain those patches that they work with the Ubuntu kernel
<zul> Zelut: you are better getting the sources from upstream
<zul> especially for openvz
<geser> persia: as the openvz isn't in the Ubuntu kernel (I haven't checked if it is or not) should we still ship such tools in hardy?
<zul> or wait for hardy
<zul> i think there is a bof for that doday at UDS
<Zelut> geser: I think the confusing thing is that tab-complete finds a kernel-patch-openvz package, yet nothing is there.
<geser> Zelut: I guess it's because it is mentioned in Suggests for vzctl
<persia> geser: Hrm.  That's an interesting question.  In some ways, I'm in favor of shipping foo-source, so that users can compile it against the kernel headers if they wish, but we should at least make the documentation clear.
<zul> or they should be removed from universe
<persia> zul: That's the other possibility.  It depends on the view of universe.  Do we provide everything else, or a useful set of software?  If the latter, what is our inclusion policy?
<geser> persia: kernel-patch-* are different from foo-source as the first is a kernel patch (you need to build your own kernel) and the second is only a kernel-module (the kernel-headers should be enough)
<geser> kernel-patch-* are already on the sync blacklist
<persia> geser: Ah.  Right.  In that case, I'd argue for the removal of foo-tools where it requires kernel-patch-foo, based on the guideline that everything should be useful.
<persia> (of course, if there is a foo-source for modules, I argue for inclusion)
<zul> no, then they would break everytime the kernel ABI changes
<persia> zul: Right, but the kernel ABI almost never changes for a real release.
<zul> persia: it somtimes does, there were a couple of times during the dapper release cycle
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zul> persia: the ipw2200 sources should be removed as well
<geser> Hi bddebian
<persia> zul: Were any of those prior to Edgy release?  I'd think that LTS users who relied on module sources could be trusted to recompile.  Alternately, making a better hook for the automatic module tools might be nice.
<zul> persia: yes in dapper
<persia> zul: I completely agree with that.  The mainline support for .24 is much better.  I've been waiting for the official results of the kernel-team decision on .23 vs. .24
<persia> zul: Ah.  That's not desireable.  Better tools are needed, I guess.
<zul> its going to be .24 most likely
<persia> zul: Has that been confirmed?  I thought the security team was still in hot debate.
<zul> persia: i think 2.6.24 is being rebased now by the kernel team
<persia> zul: So fast?  I'm glad to hear it, but it definitely highlights how hard it is to follow things from the other side of the globe :)
<persia> zul: If yuou can confirm that, please file a removal bug for ipw2200
<zul> sure
<persia> zul: Thanks.
<bddebian> Heya geser
<norsetto> siretart: I see still some references in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging to motu-tools and multidistrotools. They are obsolete now right?
<geser> norsetto: we still have some mdt setups but the mdt page is outdated
<norsetto> geser: right
 * persia notes that http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html is being updated hourly by a cron job.
<luk_> what's DIF, I guess a Freeze, but which kind?
<geser> Debian Import Freeze
<geser> no auto-syncing of Debian packages anymore (only on request)
<siretart> norsetto: sorry, no idea right now
<norsetto> siretart: ok, thx
<persia> norsetto: motu-tools is replaced by ubuntu-dev-tools.  multidistrotools is active, but not packaged.  See the URL I posted a bit back.
<norsetto> persia: Right. What would be the alternative to lpbugs.py then, if any?
<persia> norsetto: thekorn made a really nice python program, with optional GUI.  Unfortunately, while he told me the name, I've forgotten, and haven't found it.  If you can't catch thekorn, dholbach might remember the name.
<norsetto> persia: ok, I remember using some tools from thekorn too
<persia> norsetto: If you find it, please let me know.  I really want to be using it for hardy, but...
<Hobbsee> persia: so when will you file a backport for gnome-hearts?
<Hobbsee> you'll have to do the testing for it, too
<persia> Hobbsee: Backport?  Is there no SRU option?  It completely fails, so there's little downside risk (not that I'm a good judge of SRU stuff).
<ScottK> persia: pitti bought off on a new upstream version of Azureus due to not working at all, so it seems reasonable.
<ScottK> for SRU
<persia> ScottK: That's what I was thinking.  Essentially, due to differences between Debian and Ubuntu gnome-games and gnome-cards, gnome-hearts in gutsy is broken.  Hobbsee fixed it for hardy by pulling a new upstream and patching it wildly, but someone with a better SRU idea than I should review for gutsy.
 * persia 's one and only SRU attempt, fixing a FTBFS + fail to run for feisty was rejected because it apparently didn't work despite local testing.
<LaserJock> bummer
<Hobbsee> persia: new upstream version.  might do a sru.
<Hobbsee> persia: well, no, i pulled the debian version, adn pulled the troublesome patches.
<Hobbsee> because they looked useful
<Hobbsee> old code got mostly rewritten anyway - looks like debian's redone most of their packaging - adn they only had 2 patches anyway
<Hobbsee> (originally)
<persia> Hobbsee: Thank you.  The "crashes fro crack" bit is flipped on my worksttion, so things that work for me don't always seem to work for others, and I usually crash every few hours until the first dev kernel release for each new official stable release.
<luk_> Hobbsee: s/adn/and/ or are you talking about the IRC nick 'adn'?
<Hobbsee> luk_: no, it's the fact that i cant type for shit, especially after 2am :P
<LaserJock> !ohmy | Hobbsee
<ubotu> Hobbsee: Please watch your language and topic, and keep this channel family friendly.
<LaserJock> hehehe
 * ScottK moves to the other side of the room from LaserJock
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: as i kept saying to our oscilloscope on monday, "die".
<Hobbsee> :P
 * persia decides that November 2nd should start later...
<Hobbsee> to saying that, not for you yourself to die off
<Hobbsee> perthe comments referred to the old version, btw
<Hobbsee> bah
<deadwill> hey LaserJock, hi!
<LaserJock> hmm, I thought DaD was going away?
<ScottK> LaserJock: After perhaps MoM provides equiavlent functionality.
<ScottK> That part hasn't got done yet.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> hopefully that gets done soon
<LaserJock> it's really no fun looking at multiple places :/
<ScottK> LaserJock: Unfortunately we are dependent on Canonical people to decide to pay attention to it.  They haven't yet.
<LaserJock> ScottK: do you know if anybody has submitted a patch or anything?
<StevenK> Personally, I don't think comments are *that* useful.
<ScottK> LaserJock: How could they?  No one has the MoM source.
<LaserJock> StevenK: I agree, but I don't want people getting mad at me cause I didn't look at DaD
<LaserJock> ScottK: I thought there was an agreement about that
 * StevenK doesn;t.
<StevenK> (Look at DaD, that is)
<ScottK> LaserJock: There was discussion.  AFAIK, no source actually got provided, but Adri2000 or Lutin would know better.
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> we should wrap that up as a part of the MOTU process review
 * ScottK tends to look at DaD (it updates more frequently anyway) and then use whichever proposed merge seems cleaner.
<LaserJock> I just can't ever remember the URL for DaD so I go with MoM
<ScottK> LaserJock: ^^^ /topic
<LaserJock> DaD's got a pretty slick look though
<LaserJock> yeah, well, with irssi I don't really see topics
<ScottK> Ah.
<LaserJock> but yeah, that's true
<ScottK> If I actually understood the color coding scheme on MoM, I might be more likely to look there.
<LaserJock> yeah, I've never understood it, but it doesn't matter to me
<LaserJock> I just merge stuff with my name on it then start looking for other things to do
<ScottK> Speaking of which ...
<ScottK> fernando: How goes courier?
<fernando> ScottK: http://www.nerdgroup.org/fernando/files/courier_0.57.0-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<ScottK> fernando: Why did you add Depends openssl to courier-pop-ssl?
<ScottK> fernando: Or is that a previously existing difference that you've just documented?
<ScottK> fernando: Looks pretty good.  Would you please file a merge request bug, attach that to the bug, and subscribe UUS?
<norsetto> anyone here knows the differences between the light and dark green packages in MoM?
<TheMuso_Boston> norsetto: i was told that the colours were something to do with priority.
<norsetto> TheMuso_Boston: ok, so light lower and dark higher I assume !?
<TheMuso_Boston> norsetto: I don't know.
<norsetto> TheMuso_Boston: np, thanks :-)
<norsetto> You guys may want to check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging; I have made extensive modifications and tried to bring it up to date with current tools and practices
<norsetto> hmmm, better link here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging
<ScottK> norsetto: I made some minor adjustments on the merges page.  It looks pretty good.
<norsetto> ScottK: thx, I think that was really needed.
<ScottK> The one change I made that is probably significant is the bit about filing bugs if you are working on a merge.  If you are the previous uploader, I don't think it's needed and I don't recall any MOTU meeting where it was agreed to.
<norsetto> scottK: ah, well, in my mind that page is for new contributors, I assume MOTU know how to merge
<james_w> Hi, I would like to have a merge upload reviewed, is there a pointer to documentation about getting a review I can read?
<ScottK> norsetto: Right, but I don't want anyone to assume that the lack of a bug means it's a free for all.
<ScottK> james_w: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging covers this.
<norsetto> ScottK: ok, let me check then, perhaps I misunderstood you
<hellboy195> ScottK: did you have already time to look for a motu that decided on gimp (we talked about it yesterday). If not I could also search for one by me own ;)
<norsetto> scottK; well, contributors anyhow have to file the bug even if they were the previous uploaders
<ScottK> hellboy195: No.  Gimp is in Main, so it would have been a core-dev, not a MOTU.
<ScottK> norsetto: Agreed, it's just a question of making sure lack of a bug isn't thought to be meaningful.
<hellboy195> ScottK: I mean the decision to put it NOT into updates but in backports
<ScottK> hellboy195: Once again, not a MOTU, core-dev because the package is in Main.  No.
<jdong> doko: what are we gonna do in Ubuntu to get swt-gtk v3.3? I'm looking to sync Azureus 3.0.3.4 from Debian for Hardy and need swt-gtk 3.3 to continue (not high priority)
<hellboy195> ScottK: ok than I have to look for a core-dev. thx anyway
<StevenK> Why would we put a new gimp into -updates?
<StevenK> What is wrong with rc3 that justifies it?
<ScottK> hellboy195: ^^^
<james_w> thanks ScottK.
<StevenK> If you say version number, that is *not* justification.
<ScottK> james_w: You're welcome.
<zul> the number is higher so it must be good
<doko> jdong: build eclipse?
 * StevenK kicks zul 
<zul> StevenK: ehehe..
<hellboy195> ScottK: !?
<zul> StevenK: oooh...shiney..
<jdong> doko: :( is that going to be nontrivial?
<ScottK> hellboy195: Look at what StevenK said just above my highlighting you and you'll have your GIMP conversation started.
<hellboy195> ScottK: A thx. I only focused on you
<jdong> doko: why don't we use separate source packages for swt-gtk like what Debian does?
<hellboy195> StevenK: 2.4 final isn a new version. final is FINAL and I think everbody prefers a final and not a RC
 * norsetto relax and watch the show
<StevenK> hellboy195: Which is version number. And not justification.
<ScottK> jdong: Building eclipse is impossible with < 1GB RAM.  1GB RAM will get it done in ~18 hours due to disk thrashing.  More memory gets it done a lot faster.
<norsetto> scottk, jdong: confrmed :-(
<hellboy195> StevenK: that mean the RC3 is the same then the final?
<jdong> that sounds a bit silly to me.... why don't we split out swt-gtk into its own source package
<jdong> like how Debian's been doing it
<doko> jdong: because the "swt-gtk like" packages don't work for eclipse
<StevenK> hellboy195: I'm not certain, which isn't the point. My point is we won't put a new upstream release into -updates.
<jdong> doko: ok, so it will cause trouble when we upgrade eclipse to 3.3?
<geser> in the "Ubuntu QA for hardy" thread it was mentioned that the archive should be linda & lintian clean. How strong do we want this? I'm doing a merge now and have the choice to sync or introduce new changes to fix lintian warnings.
<hellboy195> StevenK: from RC3 to final is a new upstream version???? shouldn't ubuntu be stable and RC IS unstable to take it exact and final not. besides that already a bugfixrelease of gimp has been released
<StevenK> How is the RC unstable?
<doko> jdong: you need to package it. your next challange ;)
<bddebian> heh
<StevenK> Just because the version jumped from 2.4.0~rc3 to 2.4.0 means nothing.
<ScottK> hellboy195: If you haven't looked, you need to look at the actuall bugs (if any) that were fixed to see if they are important.
<zul> how is rc3 not stable?
<hellboy195> StevenK: partially. but most times bugs from rc3 are fixed in the final
<jdong> doko: would it be a bad idea to do what Debian does, ship libswt3.2-gtk for Eclipse that comes from Eclipse and libswt-gtk-3.{2,3} for other apps that use SWT?
<pwnguin> hellboy195: maybe if you provided a diff between releases that suggested some fixes..
<StevenK> hellboy195: Fine. I need examples, Launchpad bugs and *justification*
<hellboy195> StevenK: the most justification is that final looks more stable and better than rc3 ;)
<StevenK> That isn't justification.
<doko> jdong: yes, if you do include the osgi bits
<pwnguin> looks more stable
<StevenK> That's conjecture
<doko> jdong: and no, the debian packaging is insane, as man-di told you as well
<ScottK> hellboy195: I'd suggest get some specific details and come back to speak with StevenK later.  He can probably fix it for you if he's convinced.
<jdong> doko: got it, you don't think Debian packaging is done right :)
<pwnguin> hellboy195: aside from vague gimp developer assurances that final means stable, is there any proof that final is MORE stable than the rc in Ubuntu?
<norsetto> ScottK: ok, I think I understand what you are aiming at now. I'm just afraid that this could confuse new contributors in the unlikely case they have already worked on the previous case.
<joejaxx> jdong: are you going to visit us anytime soon? :D
<doko> jdong: the debian packaging for swt-gtk (and azureus); btw, you did want to re-add the missing patches, didnt you?
<hellboy195> pwnguin: ScottK StevenK : well guys I didn't want to grumble or things like that. Sry for that. I was just wondering
<jdong> joejaxx: probably Friday
<ScottK> hellboy195: If there's a real justification for it, fine, but just it's a later release, isn't that.
<joejaxx> jdong: oh ok :D
<jdong> doko: I have good reason from upstream to conclude that the native tabbingtheming patches are in part responsible for its instability in Ubuntu
<hellboy195> ScottK: well 2.2 to 2.4 isn't the same like a 2.4RC3 to 2.4
<pwnguin> hellboy195: If there is proof, MOTU can consider that. but it just looks like an obsessive compulsive need to have the latest
<jdong> doko: so I don't really see the sense in adding them back in when without them Azureus works perfectly fine
<doko> "good reason" is a vapour statement
<pwnguin> hellboy195: but without specific evidence, you're risking the current package quality for the reward of fixing nothing
<ScottK> hellboy195: Agreed, but to make any change at all to a release requires technical justification.
<StevenK> 2.4.0~rc3 to 2.4.0 is still a new upstream release
<StevenK> Both are distinct releases.
<hellboy195> pwnguin: ScottK okthx
<pwnguin> hellboy195: like world nuclear politics, the best course of action in upstream release engineering is "trust, but verify"
<hellboy195> StevenK: ok. and what about the the bugfixrelease 2.4.1?
<jdong> doko: an Azureus developer in #azureus the other day said that Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora apply patches to swt theming that causes SWT to segfault....
<pwnguin> actually, i take back what i said about MOTU considering it. i meant core-devel
<jdong> doko: I am just taking their word for it...
<pwnguin> MOTU aren't allowed to accidentally break something as important as GIMP.
<doko> jdong: nevermind, I'll restore them after uds
<ScottK> hellboy195: Once again, look at the specific changes and see if there's something critical.
<ScottK> pwnguin: GIMP is in Main, so we can't upload it anyway.  It happens StevenK is also core-dev.
<StevenK> Don't dob me in. :-P
<hellboy195> ScottK: http://developer.gimp.org/NEWS-2.4 some minor but also things like fixed another crash with broken plug-ins (bug #490617)
<pwnguin> hellboy195: alternatively, you could just build it yourself, or use launchpad PPAs if you think others might want it
<jdong> doko: well it'll probably be irrelevant as we get 3.0.3.4 into Hardy... it seems like Mandriva has a pretty decent collection of patches for icedtea built Azureus 3.x.x.x; for now I just want working and noncrashing packages for SRU to Gutsy
<hellboy195> pwnguin: getdeb.net ;) hmm no. I was just curious
<jdong> doko: if the native theming patches are important to you, I can try applying them and asking the testers to give it a shot
<ScottK> hellboy195: I'm trying to help you understand what needs to be done.  Please don't confuse that with me caring deeply about the issue.  It might be useful to find the patch for the crash fix and maybe put that in an SRU.
<james_w> The dh_iconcache man page says "This script is going to go away." Is there an alternative to use, or just drop the invocation? Or maybe, is this information correct?
<StevenK> james_w: dh_icons
<joejaxx> ////////////win 2222226
<james_w> StevenK: thanks.
<joejaxx> gah
<hellboy195> ScottK: hm I'm new to that things and I also thought that the newest is always the best. Used to long windows ^^
<StevenK> james_w: dh_iconcache was Ubuntu only - dh_icons is available in both Debian and Ubuntu, so if we have to put it in, suggest it to the Debian maintainer.
<ScottK> hellboy195: It's a critical difference.  We try to make sure stuff works and then keep that exact thing until the next release except for critical fixes.
<hellboy195> ScottK: yeah windows and debian sid confused me ;)
<pwnguin> if you just want the latest and greatest at all costs, debian sid provides in most cases
<ScottK> StevenK: Have you got a moment for some library advice?
<hellboy195> pwnguin: yeah but I tried it and I don't like sid. too buggy for me. Only Ubuntu rulez ^^
<StevenK> ScottK: Surely a library is close by. :-P
<zul> hellboy195: if you want the latest and greatest then you would be running something like hardy
<ScottK> StevenK: I merged https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dkim-milter/2.0.2.dfsg-1ubuntu1 which now provides a separate lib package, which (I now see) has a conflict: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=440577 - It's not sorted out in Debian.  Should I make the two libraries conflict?
<ubotu> Debian bug 440577 in dkim-milter "libdkim-dev: Package namespace conflict" [Serious,Open]
<StevenK> ScottK: Give me a moment
<pwnguin> hellboy195: ubuntu's quality comes at the price of careful consideration. developers have to weigh the risks of regressions and new bugs in new code against value of improvements.
<hellboy195> zul: yeah the thing is that hardy is too unstable for me the first stages. and second also hardy will have a package freeze and is outdated very fast. but trust me. mostly I'm satisfied with ubuntu
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.  Researching further, I see there is a version in New that fixes it http://ftp-master.debian.org/~ajt/new/dkim-milter_2.3.2.dfsg-1_i386.html
<ScottK> StevenK: Looks like I can just wait on the ftpmaster and it'll get cleared up.
<hellboy195> pwnguin: I always thought. New version = new bugs, old bugs fixed, new features --> 2:1 for an upgrade
<ScottK> hellboy195: Plus also thinkos and regressions sometimes added too.  That's the worry.
<pwnguin> hellboy195: the best ive seen in practice is to steal the patches from the new version that fix code, and skip on the new features that come with new bugs
<hellboy195> pwnguin: oh. but new features are cool too ^^
<hellboy195> ScottK: yeah I understand
<geser> hellboy195: you also need to check if all packages using libgimp2.0 still work
<hellboy195> geser: but whatabout a autosync to debian gimp with manuell editing?
<pwnguin> hellboy195: if packages had more automated tests, pushing those kinds of changes might go faster, but that spec isn't implemented yet
<hellboy195> pwnguin: ok
<StevenK> ScottK: Hard.
<StevenK> ScottK: And I don't want to step on people's toes.
<ScottK> StevenK: OK.  I'll wait and see what happens when the new version gets out of NEW.  We have time.
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks for looking.
<Jazzva> Where should I put the debdiff once I'm done with the merge?
<jussi01> anybody know who is responsible for the kde4 beta packages?
<geser> Jazzva: just like normal sponsoring, open a bug (if none exists), attach the debdiff and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<Jazzva> geser: Thanks :)
<TheMuso_Boston> 3~/c
 * ScottK waits for the ugh...
<TheMuso_Boston> heh
<TheMuso_Boston> I didn't notice I did that till just now.
<wattazoum> Hello
<wattazoum> I am using tar to make backups , but I wonder if there is an option to prevent TAR to backup twice the same file if I give it as an entry
<wattazoum> like I want to backup /dir, exclude /dir/foo and include dir/foo/toto
<wattazoum> I am ending with /dir/foo/toto twice
<ScottK> wattazoum: Sounds like you ought to be in #ubuntu for support.
<wattazoum> well, as it's in fact for development :-) I am developping a backup software that uses TAR
<wattazoum> ScottK, I thought it would be a nice place to ask
<ScottK> wattazoum: If someone wants to answer, sure, but this channel is more about devloping Ubuntu than stuff that might go in Ubuntu at some point.
<wattazoum> ScottK, Ah, oki , thank you
<geser> does somebody know if adding -fno-stack-protector is really the right fix for bug #155522?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155522 in etoken "[patch] unknown symbol in libetoken binaries" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155522
<pwnguin> one hopes not
<ajmitch> good morning
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> geser: it tends to be the fix of choice for such issues
<zul> geser: only way to find out is to test yourself
<zul> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> I think the issue is not whether it works, but whether it's the best thing to do
<kalorin> hola, anyone know when we'd likely see a package for gimp2.4.1 out? obviously 2.4.1 was updated last night but I'm just curious about the lag time things usually take?
<geser> zul: I have no such token to test it. I just wanted to ACK the sync for hardy and checked if there are any other bugs which could get fixed.
<StevenK> AWW FEW
<StevenK> FER, even
<ajmitch> StevenK: here, have a beer
<zul> later..
<StevenK> I think I need something stronger
<ajmitch> geser: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GccSsp
<ajmitch> it's pretty much assumed that you should use that flag to turn off the changed gcc behaviour
<kalorin> ok good thanks
<geser> ajmitch: thanks, will do a "merge" for etoken instead of a sync
<nixternal> quick question, when an md5 in our repos doesn't match an md5 from debian, we should request a "fake sync" correct?
<nixternal> just makin' sure this hasn't changed since..umm. dapper I think was the last time I ran across this
<Kmos> geser: you got some time to check the ddclient debdiff?
<geser> Kmos: not yet
<Kmos> ok
<ajmitch> nixternal: yeah, and they can't really be requested :)
<Kmos> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdx
<Kmos> http://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xdx/news/20071021T173203Z.html
<Kmos> i think this one can be synced
<Kmos> what motu members think ?
<geser> ajmitch: speaking of fake-syncs, could you sponsor bug #157672?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157672 in sqlite "[Fake sync] sqlite 2.8.17-4build1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157672
<geser> Kmos: if it builds in a hardy chroot, you can file a sync request
<geser> or a hardy pbuilder
<Kmos> geser: ok
<ajmitch> geser: 1.5MB debdiff? seriuosly?
<TheMuso_Boston> thats a big debdiff.
<ajmitch> ssh is so very lagged today, someone must be downloading
<geser> ajmitch: from diffstat: configure                      |28157 ++++++++++++++++++++---------------------
<ajmitch> yes, I just saw that
<geser> the other are <= 500 changes
<ajmitch> but can you please just provide the sane debdiff against debian?
<geser> sure, if you prefer that
 * ajmitch may be able to do something with it then
<geser> ajmitch: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10242659/ubuntu-changes-only.debdiff
 * ajmitch needs to get a proper hardy build setup working
<pkern> Did anyone in here here s.th. from \sh in the last two weeks? (by chance)
<ScottK> pkern: I think I last talked to him right before the Gutsy release.
<ScottK> pkern: IIRC he was about to go on vacation.
<pkern> ScottK: How much time has passed since Gutsy's release? One and a half weeks?
<ScottK> Two I think.
<ScottK> Yes.  Two weeks.
<pkern> Ah it's Thu.
<ScottK> pkern: How come Gobby flashes at me from the task bar every time ANYTHING happens no matter how trivial?
<ScottK> pkern: Is it configurable somewhere?
<pkern> ScottK: Because users wanted exactly that.
<persia> ScottK: It wants to make sure you're aware.
<StevenK> Because Gobby is crap
 * ScottK wonders if StevenK knows who the Gobby upstream is ...
<ajmitch> them's fighting words, better not let upstream here them
<pkern> Probably he does.
<ajmitch> s/here/hear/
<StevenK> I don't, actually
<pkern> ScottK: Don't know, no env to check :-P
<ScottK> pkern: It'd be nice (please consider this a feature request) to be able to configure it.
<pkern> ScottK: Maybe I implemented that when somebody poked me.
<ScottK> pkern: Poke
<pkern> I'm on a stupid OS X box. ;)
<pkern> Hard time...
<ScottK> As long as it's fixed before the next UDS I go to, I'll be happy.
<pkern> It's trivial.
<ScottK> pkern: Please for Hardy....
<pkern> As said it's trivial.
<ScottK> Which is not quite the same thing as saying you'll do it.
<ajmitch> you could dive into the code, ScottK
<pkern>         m_btn_urgency_hint(
<pkern>           _("Highlight the window on incoming chat messages") )
<pkern> It's already configurable?  Or is the urgency hint set on document modifications?
<ajmitch> set on modifications, iirc
<pkern> (Appearance FWIW)
<ScottK> Will it was flashing on people joining and leaving.
<ajmitch> it's been awhile since I've used it
 * ScottK looks
<pkern> ScottK: That's a chat message \:
<ScottK> If it was actual content it wouldn't be annoying, but at UDS, people join/leave about every 5 seconds so it just flashes all the time.
<pkern> ScottK: If you open a ticket about that I'll fix it.
<ScottK> pkern: Where?
<pkern> ScottK: gobby.0x539.de
 * ScottK looks
<ajmitch> pkern: you mean you don't use launchpad for bugs? :)
<pkern> ajmitch: Correct.
<pkern> ajmitch: Launchpad is vendor lockin.
<pkern> ajmitch: Just Rosetta.
<ajmitch> shocking
<ScottK> pkern: Filed - http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/ticket/320
<pkern> ScottK: Thanks.
<ScottK> pkern: Thank you.  It's a useful tool, but that just drove me nuts.
<pkern> ScottK: Then turn it off, the option's there. ;)
<pkern> We did not use it at huge "parties" so even simple joins were interesting for us.
<pkern> (i.e. rejoins after disconnection)
<imbrandon> afternoon all
<ScottK> pkern: Well I found it this time now that I know it exists.  When I was at UDS going nuts, I didn't see the option.
 * tonyyarusso is more than a bit annoyed that LP is _still_ closed source
 * ScottK is more annoyed about it being frustrating to use, but that too.
<imbrandon> their roadmap for open sourcing it has always been 5+ years, so _still_ might not be a good term
<pwnguin> man, the day it goes open
<pkern> imbrandon: How said "still"?
<pwnguin> i'll have to start triple checking updates for hax
<ajmitch> pwnguin: uh, why? :)
<pkern> imbrandon: They want to provide software as a service, so they won't open source it.
<pkern> Affero GPL ftw
<imbrandon> pkern, sure they will , it IS in thier roadmap, just not soon
<pwnguin> meh. it either happens or it doesn't
<pwnguin> plans are like excuses
<pwnguin> everyone has one
 * pkern looks at Debian's plans...
<pkern> I see world domination there! :-P
<ScottK> imbrandon: Have you seen this roadmap?
<pkern> imbrandon: I am very wary of Canonical.
<StevenK> pkern: Why?
<imbrandon> ScottK, sure, lemme find the text quoted
<imbrandon> pkern, why?
 * ScottK isn't 'very wary', but does keep in mind that they are a profit making institution and can reasonably be expected to behave a such.
<ScottK> As such entities go, they are better than most (recent changes in the PPA ToS as evidence for that).
<pkern> When you see the profit point you are fine.  Working for Canonical for a living is fine.
<StevenK> There are good sides and no so good sides.
<ScottK> But, as they should be, they are out to separate organizations from their wallets.  So it pays to be careful.
<imbrandon> ScottK, here is one snipit, i know there is more i need to dig a bit deeper
<imbrandon> https://help.launchpad.net/FAQ#head-34295746b9c12bbe42eee4a9bd5e2656306fd796
<StevenK> One of the good sides is you have a bunch of people that are paid to make Ubuntu rock, and help with community stuff, and generally be available.
<ScottK> Agreed.
 * pwnguin has no idea how / if canonical makes money
<pkern> I may outline my points somewhere in the near future.  I had some strong feelings about two weeks ago, but lost track the last two weeks having not been in touch with Ubuntu at all.
<ScottK> imbrandon: I've seen that, but don't particularly buy it.
<imbrandon> pwnguin, they make money in much the same way redhat does, through service contracts
 * persia suggests that everything we use today in LP will become open source in a few years, and that launchpad itself will be much larger at that point.
<ScottK> I've also seen sabdfl say it'll be Free when it's successful.
<imbrandon> ScottK, not beleaving something and it not being stated is very diffrent
<pwnguin> that can't be enough to cover costs
<ScottK> Personally, I don't see it being successful unless it is Free.
<imbrandon> pwnguin, sabdlf has stated a few times it dosent , and dosent expect it to for 7 to 10 years
<pkern> There are some paths Canonical persues to get Ubuntu in markets to earn s.th.
<pwnguin> no doubt
<persia> pwnguin: It's currently in market acquisition phase.  Wait for progress on our first bug, and the strategy will show
<ScottK> imbrandon: That's a corporate statement of intent, not necessarily their actual roadmap.  I doubt anyone outside Canonical and it's contractors have seen the roadmap.
<pwnguin> heh
<imbrandon> ScottK, its already successfull, if you mean "everyone is happy aobut it" that will never happen
<lamalex> how do I go about requesting an initial mentor?
<ScottK> imbrandon: No, it's not.  How many Linux distros not downstream from Ubuntu use it?
<imbrandon> ScottK, it dosent matter when ubuntu's install base is 9 million plus, i consider that successfull
<pkern> o_O
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I think he may have been talking about LP?
<ScottK> imbrandon: Ubuntu yes, but we are talking about Launchpad.  Different product with different success criteria.
<ajmitch> when LP has a large enough user base, there's little incentive for people to setup their private copies
<imbrandon> ScottK, somewhat but not really , LP success greatly dependsw on Ubuntu's success
<imbrandon> exactly ajmitch and thats when it will be opened
<pkern> ajmitch: I want to get information into LP and *out of LP* in a sensible way.
<ajmitch> pkern: and there are concrete plans to improve that a lot in the next few months
<ScottK> pkern: +1
<pkern> Some companies realize that opening up their service get them more users then keeping it closed. See gmail with IMAP.
<pkern> Many kudos to Google for that. Now I actually recommend this service.
<imbrandon> also see how long ti toook gmail to implment imap
<pkern> imbrandon: Correct.
<pwnguin> imbrandon: im not quite sure how canonical could ever plan to spend 250 dollars even fixing just one bug at a profit...
<imbrandon> so i fail to see a "problem" also if you have digged a big LP caode can be worked on by community members
<imbrandon> even now
<imbrandon> pwnguin, huh ? i totaly missed your point there
<ajmitch> the majority of people with support contracts will have them for multiple installs, and will have few problems
<ajmitch> they're paying for the availability of canonical to fix problems should they arise
<noolness> support is an insurance plan so you don't get fired, essentially
<noolness> all companies pay for it because that's the culture
<pwnguin> at least as they're written now, canonical's contracts don't appear to stop me from buying after ive found a problem
<ajmitch> right, but that would be the minority of contracts, i'd say
<pwnguin> but i guess that's their problem
<imbrandon> pwnguin, but how many do you see actualy doign that ? and canonical is prepared to take that risk too saying hey wont turn a profit for 7 to 10 years
<imbrandon> they*
<pwnguin> imbrandon: i see a lot more people doing that than choosing to buy support up front...
<ajmitch> the people who buy support up front don't necessarily talk about it :)
<ajmitch> it's just what they do
<noolness> companies buy support not people
<imbrandon> exactly
<noolness> and companies have unlimited money (well not unlimited but they are more than willing to pay large sums of money)
<pwnguin> hell, ive considered spending 250 dollars to see what canonical will throw at a bug ;)
<persia> pwnguin: In that case you've not been involved in vendor approval cycles for large firms.  Given that it can take 6+ months to get approval to pay a new vendor, it's lots easier to just pay for support at the beginning, as otherwise it's painful.
<ajmitch> if you have a number of critcal servers running ubuntu, you're not going to wait for a problem & then spend time getting a contract signed
<noolness> look how much they pay for all the windows boxen....especially servers
<noolness> they buy windows server, sql server, connection licenses, etc, ends up costing at least 10k per server when all is said and done, plus they pay per year for support
<noolness> (typically)
<imbrandon> pwnguin, sure but your not canonicals main customer or target, IBM , Yellow Freight, Applebies , home depot , etc are
<imbrandon> if you have the problem so do they
<noolness> how much is canonical charging for support?
<pwnguin> the contracts ive seen are 250 dollars per year
<imbrandon> a single server iirc is 250 a year
<noolness> that's really cheap
<noolness> and is it good support or what?
<ajmitch> I thought servers were more
<imbrandon> yea
<noolness> and desktops?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, servers might be more, i know it starts at 250
<ajmitch> there are differing levels of support, including response times
<imbrandon> noolness, 24x7 phone and developer support
<noolness> ah
<imbrandon> is one
<pwnguin> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid
<noolness> paid support is probably one of the key things that people need in order to support linux in the enterprise
<noolness> not bad although the desktop prices are quite high, depending on the situation
<imbrandon> ahhh 3k per year for server 24x7
<pwnguin> i guess they took down their sample contracts
<noolness> the server pricing isn't bad though, i would pay that (i mean if i was at a company)
<norsetto> lamalex: why do you think you need a mentor?
<noolness> i  bet you can work out a deal with them though if you just want the support sticker on a bunch of desktops, ie volume licensing
<pwnguin> heh
<noolness> since the amount of support calls they would get would be dramatically less
<pwnguin> at least on the contracts i saw
<pwnguin> unlimited seats
<ajmitch> right, I'd expect that for ubuntu
<imbrandon> the whole point of this is Canoncial makes its money on those, not LP, it never inteneded to make money via LP closed source its keeping it closed source untill suffcent mass is built up using it so as not to make 1000000 LP clones on the net
<noolness> oh you just pay 250 bucks for desktop support period?
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> for a year
<pwnguin> 900 if you want "24x7"
<noolness> so wait that is total support, i could have 1000 desktops and 10 servers?
<pwnguin> noolness: keep in mind there's also limits on the number of tickets filed
<noolness> pwnguin: yeah i know...but still that is pretty cheap
<persia> noolness: It is also support bandwidth.  If you pay more, you can speak to more people at the same time, and more people in total.
<noolness> actually amazingly cheap
<pwnguin> noolness: which is in part why i sort of imagine this being not very profitable...
<noolness> pwnguin: yeah i agree
<noolness> and i don't think trying to make money with launchpad is good either...
<noolness> that's that thing from linspire right?
<noolness> (or am i mixing things up)
<imbrandon> they arent trying with LP
<imbrandon> see my last statement
<noolness> ah
<pwnguin> someone on #fluxbuntu claimed they didnt pay for souyez
 * ajmitch has no ideas what contracts may go on in the background
<imbrandon> pwnguin, why would they pay for souyez ?
<pwnguin> ive never set up an LP project or Distro, so i took them at face value
<pwnguin> imbrandon: i assumed because canonical charged for it?
<noolness> well if they are just selling support like on that page...well...i think they will have problems making enough money to support the project
<imbrandon> pwnguin, no
<noolness> but...i am sure they know what they are doing
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: Instead of pissing off lots of people, why don't they just write code that would allow all Launchpad clones to share information?
<pkern> So I can ask Canonical to add a distro for me?
<noolness> they have been pretty darn successful so far
<ajmitch> tonyyarusso: 'just'
<ajmitch> tonyyarusso: because it's a rather large task to decentralise all this stuff?
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso, thats a tall order, and in the end i'm sure there will be
<noolness> it's better to have one trusted source
<ajmitch> you assume that they're not already working towards that
<tonyyarusso> True
<imbrandon> pkern, sure, fluxbuntu , xubuntu, ubuntustudio have all done so
<noolness> LP is the linspire thing correct?
<pwnguin> no
<imbrandon> no
<pwnguin> launchpad is canonical bug tracking software
<imbrandon> LP -- LaunchPad.net
<tonyyarusso> I just don't like the double standard of "We promote software that's open and lets you watch or get involved in the development process, but when it's our own we keep it secret."
<tonyyarusso> Makes no sense.
<noolness> oh shoot i was thinking of something completely different hehe
<pwnguin> well, its more than bug tracking. it's software tracking software
<pkern> !launchpad
<ubotu> Launchpad is a collection of development services for Open Source projects. It's Ubuntu's bug tracker, and much more; see https://launchpad.net/
<noolness> i was thinking about that linspire "you have to pay for stuff" package manager
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso, if you listen to what sabdfl has said on the subject it make alot of sense
<pwnguin> click 'n' run
<noolness> yes click 'n' run
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: I've tried to, but it still rubs me really wrong to say one thing and then do another.
<Daviey> CC:by-nc-sa is a 'free licence' right?  Even with the noncommerical element?
<pkern> Daviey: Not for Debian(tm).
<noolness> launchpad sounds like they are trying to have a common place where people can barter for work
<Daviey> pkern: but fine for us?
<pwnguin> afaik, cc-by-sa itself isnt dfsg
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso, LP isnt trying to make money its trying to gain mass
<pkern> For multiverse perhaps.
<noolness> rwith bounties and such?
<persia> Daviey: -nc- makes it nonfree.
<pkern> pwnguin: I thought 3.0 should be?
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: I know that.
<Daviey> persia: hmm.. what should i do?
<pkern> pwnguin: (But take it with a grain of salt, I have no clue)
<imbrandon> noolness, bounties failed misserbly
<noolness> ah
<noolness> nobody did the bounties i bet ;)
<pwnguin> pkern: i also know very little about it :(
<ScottK> Daviey: non-commercial dooms it to multiverse here.
<imbrandon> no one ponied up money for bounties
<pwnguin> sure they did
<persia> Daviey: It can go to multiverse, or you can coordinate with upstream to see if they would permit it to be sold (essentially, universe ends up on the DVD, which gets sold, so that's commercial)
<ajmitch> noolness: many trivial things were put there, there was no moderation of it
<Daviey> ScottK: ok thanks
<noolness> ah that sucks
<pwnguin> launchpad just sucked promotion and cooperative bounties
<noolness> people should have had to pay their money up front
<pwnguin> there'd be a bounty with zero dollars, and people come along and pledge money too
<ajmitch> bounties aren't a particularly easy social problem to solve :)
<noolness> and there should have been a minimum amount
<Daviey> persia: naa.. the author doesn't want it to be non-nc (heh, double negation)
<noolness> yeah there are a lot of issues
<persia> Daviey: OK.  In that case, we can't put it in universe, as otherwise people couldn't sell DVDs.  It would have to be multiverse or nothing.
<noolness> it's easier to have a way to find people to do work, and then bargin with them
<pwnguin> the nouveu fund worked out okay
<noolness> with bounties it sucks for both sides, because if you don't finish the work fast enough you lose
<pwnguin> as far as the money ponying goes
<bddebian> siretart: You around?
<Daviey> persia: ta
<pwnguin> noolness: you could take a darpa grand challenge approach
<persia> pwnguin: I'd suggest the initial bounty requires a committment to pay: otherwise you end up with a bounty for each bug.
<pwnguin> persia: sounds good. minimal committment 5 dollars?
<pwnguin> persia: my beef was just that people would want to fund the bounty extra and LP didn't track that
<noolness> i would say more like 50 bucks
<imbrandon> id say 20% of the bountie pledge or similar
<pwnguin> there were initial bounties of 10 that rolled to 150 or more
<persia> pwnguin: I don't have an opinion on minimums: standards of living vary too widely internationally, and I haven't done the research to determine the optimin for bandwith/processing vs. cost of skilled time.
<imbrandon> someone would probably do well to setup a "bounty server"
<pwnguin> there's a few
<imbrandon> with a home brew'd system
<persia> pwnguin: Are any worthwhile?
<ScottK> imbrandon: Just send me the money.  I'll hold it for you.
<ScottK> ;-)
<pwnguin> it takes a big committment to make something like that work. like aj said, there's social issues
<imbrandon> ScottK, hehe thats the major problem i see with commitments, who holds the cash
<siretart> bddebian: yeah, sort of
<pwnguin> you need buyers and sellers
<siretart> bddebian: what's up?
 * persia thinks that if ScottK can demonstrate appropriate bonding to act as an escrow agent, he might collect significant interest on the float
<pwnguin> and enough cash to break the chicken / egg problem
<ajmitch> pwnguin: the nouveau fund never 'worked' as such
<pwnguin> escrow and dispute resolution is another problem
<pwnguin> ajmitch: at getting money or getting money _to devleopers_?
<ajmitch> pwnguin: people pledged money, the money has not got to developers
<ajmitch> so it was good at getting people to pledge, at least
<ajmitch> which is non-binding
<Burgundavia> Daviey: what are you trying to use>
<ajmitch> it also got a lot more publicity :)
<Daviey> Burgundavia: a theme/artwork
<bddebian> siretart: Just wondering what's up with scorched3d.  Why it never got uploaded?
 * imbrandon thinks
<bddebian> Now apparently 41.1 is out
<pwnguin> ajmitch: i simply used nouveau as an example of getting people to front the money. non-binding isn't great, but thats fixable
<Burgundavia> Daviey: nc and nd are veyr much non-free. Try and get the artist to relicense
<siretart> bddebian: you mean in the games team?
<Daviey> Burgundavia: tried.. ah well thanks
<Burgundavia> Daviey: artists like to use nc and nd without realizing the consequences
<bddebian> siretart: Aye
<Burgundavia> Daviey: I would explain what you want to do with it and why their current license is bad
<siretart> bddebian: please ask Fuddl for current status
<Daviey> Burgundavia: It's a mythtv theme, and the author doesn't want people making mythtv boxes and selling his theme... can't blame him really
 * persia looks forward to a scorched3d sync
<bddebian> persia: :-)
<siretart> bddebian: he should be online right now
<bddebian> siretart: OK, sorry.  Thanks.
<imbrandon> Daviey, i dont blame him either but that shouldent be in the ubuntu repos
<imbrandon> imho
<bddebian> siretart: I don't think I've ever seen him "talk" in #d-games :-)
<Burgundavia> Daviey: create a theme contest
<Burgundavia> end result must be cc by sa
<siretart> bddebian: I did
<siretart> :)
<pwnguin> Daviey: if you really want to get clever, try to convince him to publish it as an Advertisement for his work that mythTV vendors might see and commission him to do a custom theme for them
<Daviey> Burgundavia: good idea ... but not sure i can be bothered now - might just squeeze it into multiverse
<persia> Daviey: Is there a critical use case?  I think we've a few mythtv themes already, and stuffing more in multiverse isn't ideal, considering our goals of providing free software.
<Daviey> persia: yeah.. want some that look good :)
<Daviey> persia: but i see your point.. could just provide them in a private repo
<Burgundavia> Daviey:  you have lots of time until hardy
<persia> Daviey: Ah.  That's a good goal.  A private repo might work, but I think I'd second the suggestions that better free themes should be sought.
<Burgundavia> great time to run such a contest
<Daviey> :).. thanks
<bddebian> siretart: I guess no one loves me there either :'(
<superm1> unfortunately in this case, the author makes some of the best themes out there.
<pwnguin> is he opposed to the act of working for money?
<Burgundavia> you could buy a theme off him, with the understanding that the price includes the license you need
<superm1> well he already went the extra mile and relicensed and custom did a theme for us
<superm1> (for no charge)
<superm1> but he feels strongly upon these other ones that they are nc
<imbrandon> then i woudl say we have no choice but to not distribute them, not when there are tons of free alternatives
<Burgundavia> ship a mythbuntu-themes-extras
<Burgundavia> in multiverse
<Burgundavia> universe and main we can distribute
<Burgundavia> we also say others can do the same
<Burgundavia> multiverse and restricted we say "you can mirror, but if you want to redistribute, read the license"
<superm1> imbrandon, mythtv is already in multiverse, so its not really making that much worse of a situation
<pwnguin> i cant find it now, but im pretty sure in the past the fsf / gnu pages used to say they didnt advocate Free for works of art
<superm1> at least in the sense, its no worse than if the theme was shipped directly with the mythtv package
 * siretart gives bddebian a big *HUG*
<superm1> Burgundavia, the plan is a source package for each of his themes with a meta package similar to mythbuntu-themes-extras, probably mythtv-themes-nonfree though
<bddebian> siretart: :-)
<bddebian> Later folks, heading home
<pwnguin> imbrandon: when you set up dual boot between different releases, where is grub's config stored?
<imbrandon> depends on where the mbr points
<imbrandon> normaly the last installed OS's /boot
<imbrandon> if everthing is default
<imbrandon> e.g. hd(0,0) /boot/grub/menu.lst etc etc etc
<pwnguin> its surprising, but apparently gstreamer doesnt support .s3m
<pwnguin> imbrandon: maybe i should set up a chainloader system. have the mbr chainload to another bootloader for each install
<imbrandon> the amiga format ?
<pwnguin> trackers are bigger than just the amiga
<imbrandon> pwnguin, yea i've often thought about installing a small ~100MB linux base install just for a "cutom boot loader" on hd0,0
<imbrandon> just never took the time to do it
<pwnguin> imbrandon: nana. you can have grub install to the first sector in the partition
<imbrandon> would be nice for system recovery etc too
<pwnguin> so each install has its own grub.conf to use, and then put one in the MBR that just selects among partitions
<imbrandon> no i mean one that would house the main /boot i use and chainload the rest
<pwnguin> im saying you can do the same thing without the 100mb base linux install
<imbrandon> kinda like a home brewed Norton Boot Manager or similar
<imbrandon> pwnguin, i know you can but i would like trhe flexability of a full linux install for recovery and other tasks too
<pwnguin> ah
<pwnguin> thats what cds are for
<imbrandon> heh
<pwnguin> unless you're use very advanced footrests
<imbrandon> cd's are slow
<pwnguin> but yes, .s3m is a MOD, similar to the amiga stuff
<imbrandon> man i need to stop tinkering and get some merges done, i was just looking at a x86 pxe serving ppc clients
<geser> Kmos: your ddclient merge looks ok
<Hammerhead> Hi I was wondering if I could offer a addition to the firehol init.d script? The try option is not available.
<rob> people still use firehol? I thought that had a lot of problems that the author of which didn't have the time to fix?
<imbrandon> heya rob
<rob> hi imbrandon
 * LaserJock waves
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> my brain is going to explode
<ajmitch> why so?
<LaserJock> but the good news is my advisor has a dissertation chapter to thrash
<LaserJock> ajmitch: just met with my advisor, spent a long day with LaTeX
<ajmitch> ah, painful
<ajmitch> I'm glad to hear you're making progress & will be back to ubuntu development shortly ;)
 * Fujitsu waves too.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I think I'm gonna have to make another attempt at leaving
<ajmitch> morning Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Soyuz being reliable as usual, I note.
<ajmitch> 4th time lucky?
<Fujitsu> Hi ajmitch, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> commiting Ubuntu suicide just isn't that easy
<LaserJock> *committing I think
 * ajmitch hasn't even managed to sever all ties yet
<tonyyarusso> My announced absence I think lasted like three weeks.
<LaserJock> I just need like a month of no IRC, no email, no Fridge or Planet of forums
 * elkbuntu clings to LaserJock and howls 'NOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo'!
<LaserJock> *or
<LaserJock> elkbuntu!!!
<LaserJock> I haven't seen you in a long time
<elkbuntu> :D
<tonyyarusso> See, if even she manages to be here, you can.
<ajmitch> hey elkbuntu :)
<tonyyarusso> elky was even on IRC with dialup
<ajmitch> LaserJock: only a month?
 * tonyyarusso knows that pain - especially when in #ubuntu-trivia 
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, yeah well... blame life. tonyyarusso i thought we agreed never to remind me of those weeks :-/
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: oh, whoops
<LaserJock> ajmitch: a month would be good
<geser> LaserJock: sounds like you need a wire cutter :)
<LaserJock> geser: well you know, that's part of the problem
<LaserJock> I need to have my computer and Internet to work on my dissertation
<LaserJock> so I can't just turn the darn thing off
<elkbuntu> well... we could ban you from everywhere :Ã
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu: Hahah.
<Fujitsu> Good idea.
<LaserJock> well
<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, i think the good man might be cluey enough to work around them
<LaserJock> I would rather have self-inflicted banishment
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: you should probably do the same for me
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, i should probably do the same for me too. i need to find a goddamn job, and quick
<LaserJock> I'd just end up on OFTC where those .... other people live
<elkbuntu> heh
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: I need one soonish too
<LaserJock> it's wonderful being practicaly unemployable
<elkbuntu> except when the landlord wants his rent money
<LaserJock> I was scouring every national lab, Department of Defense, and Department of Energy website looking for jobs yesterday
<ajmitch> LaserJock: but you'll be educated!
<LaserJock> Piled Higher and Deeper ;-)
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: hehe
<tonyyarusso> well, time for class... :(
<LaserJock> pffft
<elkbuntu> what doesnt help is that i'm determined to keep a promise and talk in brisbane in the last week of this month
<LaserJock> people take classes these days? ;-)
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: that really interferes with starting a job
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, yeah, but im not going to miss out on being a plenary speaker for some stupid job
<elkbuntu> like dudes, im even on the website front page :-/ http://www.osdc.com.au/index.html
<ajmitch> impressive
<elkbuntu> yeah
<ajmitch> now if only that could get you a job in that field
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, would be nice :Ã
<LaserJock> it's not a bad idea
<LaserJock> just end your speach with a "I'm currently available for employment, thank you"
<elkbuntu> lol
<LaserJock> or you could have a tip jar
<LaserJock> "If you liked my speech please drop $100"
<ajmitch> LaserJock: the problem is food, rent, etc until the talk :)
 * elkbuntu nods at ajmitch
<LaserJock> well, there are ways ...
<elkbuntu> luckily i have mum and dad, but the novelty will wear off for them rather quickly
<ajmitch> crash at hobbsee's place? :)
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, brisbane is a little further north than hobbsee's place
<LaserJock> oh yeah ... I was thinking something else
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> I've been there before :)
<LaserJock> it involved rifles, ammunitions, and lots and lots of duct tape
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, i dont think i wanna know
<elkbuntu> i think i thought right :Ã
<ajmitch> he worries me
<LaserJock> I'm from Montana, we know how to "live off the land" ;-)
<ajmitch> yeah, via some methods that aren't entirely legal in other countries
<LaserJock> and by land I mean banks and rich people's kids  ;-)
<LaserJock> anyway ...
<ajmitch> spot the desperate student
<LaserJock> now that the NSA is tracking me
<LaserJock> I should maybe get back to the dissertation
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> and I'd better head off for lunch
<ajmitch> back later
<Hammerhead> rob I love firehol, it is still on Freshmeat
<Hammerhead> May 20, 2007 FireHOL R5 v1.255 released.
<Hammerhead> How do I go about adding a script addition that is what I am looking for, help in helping  ;-)
<lamalex> can someone help me with an error? i'm trying to follow the guide to package gnu helo
<lamalex> im getting this " dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
<lamalex> parsechangelog/debian: error: unrecognised line, at file debian/changelog line 3
<lamalex> dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is
<lamalex> "
<Fujitsu> lamalex: What is line three of your debian/changelog?
<norsetto> lamalex: how did you edit changelog?
<norsetto> g'night gents
<lamalex> norsetto: vi
<lamalex> * New upstream release with lots of bug fixes
<Fujitsu> lamalex: You should probably use dch - that ensures the format is correct.
<Fujitsu> lamalex: Use dch -e to edit an existing changelog entry, or dch -i to create a new one.
<Fujitsu> In this case, you've probably left out the indentation.
<lamalex> i used a tab
<lamalex> but thanks for the dch tip
<lamalex> that should be in the tutorial
<Fujitsu> lamalex: You need to use two spaces.
<gnomefreak> can someone look at http://pastebin.mozilla.org/232753 and give me a hand fixing those errors (i would rather not have to chmod debian/rules (using ubuntus fakeroot version gives same errors
<lamalex> fujitsu: thanks
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Er, debian/rules must be executable.
<Fujitsu> How did you extract the source package/
<Fujitsu> *?
<Fujitsu> Oh, using bzr..
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: If you really don't want it executable (it does have to be for things to work) you can `fakeroot make -f debian/rules sometarget'
<Fujitsu> But I don't know why you'd want to do that.
<lamalex> /usr/bin/fakeroot: 166: debian/rules: Permission denied
<lamalex> ?
<lamalex> (sorry if these are super basic questions)
<lamalex> this is my first attempt at packaging
<Fujitsu> lamalex: This is what we're discussing here, actually.
<lamalex> ah perfect!
<Fujitsu> lamalex: You need to make debian/rules executable.
<lamalex> :)
<lamalex> so should that go in the make file?
<lamalex> or be done by hand
<Fujitsu> Just chmod it by hand.
<gnomefreak> problem is rules file is only 103 lines and no clean target set
<gnomefreak> chmod a+x rules?
<lamalex> i just did +x
<lamalex> and it worked
<gnomefreak> ok ty
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Yes.
<lamalex> :)
<gnomefreak> ok trying again
<gnomefreak> i have never had that before
<gnomefreak> thats what i get for packaging for debian :(
<Fujitsu> It's the same in Ubuntu...
<gnomefreak> damn it did work that was almost too easy
<gnomefreak> thank you Fujitsu and lamalex
<gnomefreak> iceowl+bzr has taken me 2 days to get to work bzr being 99% of the time
<gnomefreak> sad part i already have sunbird for hardy built
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: iceowl... is that Sunbird?
<gnomefreak> yep
<lamalex> are hardy repos open?
<Fujitsu> It'll be nice to have that in the repos.
<gnomefreak> lamalex: yes
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: sunbird is in gutsy
<gnomefreak> 0.5 in gutsy
<gnomefreak> 0.7 going into hardy and sid
<lamalex> is iceowl a free version a la iceweasel?
<Fujitsu> Is it? Hah, I've been keeping up to date.
<geser> gnomefreak: when you call dpkg-source -x an.dsc, it does tar xzf .orig.tar.gz, patch it, chmod +x debian/rules
<gnomefreak> ah
<geser> the same happens when you use apt-get source package
<gnomefreak> lamalex: yes
<lamalex> very cool
<gnomefreak> geser: yeah but i didnt do it that way (that would have been too easy)
<gnomefreak> !info sunbird gutsy
<ubotu> sunbird: Sunbird stand-alone Calendar. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5-0ubuntu4 (gutsy), package size 7506 kB, installed size 22304 kB
<gnomefreak> since upstream killed seamonkey calendar we needed a cal app so me and asac got sunbird ready
<geser> gnomefreak: it's good to know such things when you need to do a fake-sync and dpkg-source complains that the md5sum of the .orig.tar.gz doesn't match
<gnomefreak> true
<gnomefreak> damn why would i think my job was done
<proppy> hi
<Fujitsu> Hi proppy.
<gnomefreak> bleh.patch is quilt?
<gnomefreak> or can be almost anything
<Jazzva> If I'm preparing a merge/sync from Debian and if the only thing that needs to be kept from Ubuntu's package is the maintainer field, should I report it as a sync?
<Fujitsu> Jazzva: That would be a sync, yes.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso_Boston.
<Jazzva> Ok. Thanks, Fujitsu...
<TheMuso_Boston> Hey Fujitsu
<lamalex> thanks for your help :)
<lamalex> just finished my first package build
<Fujitsu> lamalex: What are you packaging?
<lamalex> just following the gnu hello howto in the ubuntu docs
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<lamalex> yeah
<lamalex> want to learn packaging
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-02
<lamalex> want to contribute in a more concrete way
<lamalex> and learn more about it in general
<lamalex> figure it's a good way to get involved
<Fujitsu> We can always do with more people :)
<lamalex> that's what I hear
<somerville32> :)
<Kmos> !info cvxopt
<ubotu> Package cvxopt does not exist in gutsy
<Kmos> !info cvxopt
<Kmos> !info cvxopt hardy
<ubotu> Package cvxopt does not exist in hardy
<Kmos> lol
<sahil> are debbootstrap and ubuntu-server pretty much the same thing?
<crimsun_> semantically, no
<minghua> crimsun_: I believe they are pragmatically quite different as well?
<crimsun_> minghua: I agree
<geser> !info python-cvxopt
<ubotu> python-cvxopt: python package for convex optimization. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 1696 kB, installed size 3816 kB
<geser> Kmos: ubutu works on binary packages not source packages
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> i think that package can be synced.. but not sure
<geser> Kmos: it can be synced once dsdp got synced and passed NEW
<sahil> if im trying to make a gentoo-install as close to a ubuntu-desktop install what would be a good starting point?
<Kmos> geser: ah nice =)
<Fujitsu> sahil: Let's see... grab Ubuntu CD, select Gentoo partition, install :P
<crimsun_> look at the dependencies of the ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-standard, and ubuntu-minimal packages
<crimsun_> as for the Ubuntu customizations, you'll need to extract them from the affected Ubuntu source packages
<gnomefreak> can someone give me a hint on how to read a .rej file from a patch? the top section gives the - lines and bottom gives the + lines
<gnomefreak> does that mean that hunk is not needed
<gnomefreak> the lines are same as in patch itself
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: It means that hunk didn't match the file you're trying to patch.
<gnomefreak> ah yes line numbers are wrong it looks like
<gnomefreak> patch = http://pastebin.mozilla.org/232780 patch.rej = http://pastebin.mozilla.org/232779
<gnomefreak> if i run autoconf2.13 like i should do the patch becomes empty
<gnomefreak> not sure how to determine if its safe to remove patch (all signs point to yes) but i would like a confirm from another person before i do
<geser> gnomefreak: patch.rej: the lines in the first part should get removed, the lines in the second part should get added
<gnomefreak> the - lines get removed and the + lines get added
<gnomefreak> just those lines though
<geser> you get a .rej file when a chunk couldn't get applied for whatever reason
<sahil> crimsun: with regards to the configurations for individual packages is there a way to procure just that?
<gnomefreak> that is how the patch is done
<gnomefreak> the top part are - in patcha nd bottom is + in patch
<geser> either the changes aren't needed anymore or the context has slightly changed and patch couldn't apply it
<geser> gnomefreak: a .rej file looks similar to what you get if you forget the -u switch when calling diff
<gnomefreak> i didnt call diff
<gnomefreak> i used quilt push -f to get a rej file
<geser> gnomefreak: not here, but you already used diff in the past?
<gnomefreak> yes
<gnomefreak> see what im not getting is the same changes are in rej that are in patch but diff. line numbers
<gnomefreak> so do i re-patch it using right line numbers?
<gnomefreak> there has to be an easy way to do that other than making new patch
<gnomefreak> autoconf2.13 emptys the patch
<gnomefreak> thats not helpfull
<Konam> hey
<geser> the numbers have a different meaning in the patch and the .rej file
<Konam> the firestarter packaged in the ubuntu repositories is crashing on me
<Konam> and it doesn't initiate at startup, it "fails"
<gnomefreak> geser: so the numbers being diff can mean nothing (they still might be right line numbers?) that the rej still tells me nothing helpfull
<geser> gnomefreak: in the patch it mentions how many lines the next chunk affects (before and after) while in the .rej it mentions first and last line number
<gnomefreak> Konam: file bug?
<Konam> oh, I'll do it but I tought this was a motu thing or something
<geser> gnomefreak: can you also paste-bin the affected file (install.rdf)?
<gnomefreak> geser:  yeah give me a minute
<gnomefreak> geser: a couple of minutes please since i ran autoconf it changed so give me a few to reverse that
<gnomefreak> and yes i know that made no sense
<gnomefreak> i thought about it after i typed it
<gnomefreak> geser: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/232815 thats the file you asked for
<gnomefreak> that looks like a generic file
<gnomefreak> i dont see  <em:updateURL>http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/lightning/@TARGET_PLATFORM@/update.rdf</em:updateURL>
<gnomefreak> the homepageURL link doesnt work either
<geser> looks like you need to redo the whole patch as the file has changed much
<gnomefreak> thats what i was thinking after comparing them to orig install.rdf file
<gnomefreak> ok ty ill re learn quilt and do it this weekend
<geser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources has an usage example for quilt
<geser> remove the old patch (or move it away) and add a new patch with quilt and apply the changes from the old patch by hand
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi geser
<geser> Hi bddebian
<YokoZar> ScottK: You still in Boston?
<geser> time to move to bed (it's nearly 2 am again)
<geser> night all
<Fujitsu> Night geser.
<Fujitsu> YokoZar: He left a couple of days ago.
<bddebian> Gnight geser
<Hammerhead> Hi I was wondering how I would go about offering a addition to the firehol package init.d script? The try option is not available. What is the process for submission?
<bddebian> Create a patch and submit a bug on Launchpad
<Hammerhead> ok thanks
<bddebian> No, thank you. :-)
<imbrandon> pwnguin, ready for some Indiana goodness ? http://opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/resources/getit/
<imbrandon> now is when i wished i had a extra x86 laying arround
<zul> imbrandon: heathen i cast thee out
<imbrandon> zul would i get my geek points back if i tell you i'm wiring my NES controler to my parallel port ?
<zul> imbrandon: perhaps...bonus points for having no life too ;)
<pwnguin> psh. these days the cool nerds are using wiimotes as NES controllers :P
<imbrandon> bah
<noolness> imbrandon: no geek points for you, because your computer has a parallel port ;)
<pwnguin> what if you buy a new computer but make a point of ensuring it has parallel and serial?
<pwnguin> hmm. an interesting problem. normally when i work with upstreams, they'll say something along the lines of "this patch is a workaround for someone elses problem, i refuse to accept it"
<pwnguin> today I got a response of "not enough distros provide what I'd need, so I won't be fixing this"
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: From who, and which problem?
<noolness> sounds pretty messed up
<pwnguin> well, he's got a point
<pwnguin> i suggested changing the font
<pwnguin> launchpad bug 159396
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159396 in apt-file "apt-file can't find Contents on /cdrom" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159396
<pwnguin> err
<pwnguin> bug #159365
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159365 in cellwriter "Training font misleading" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159365
<noolness> misleading?
<pwnguin> "Changing the font is very easy, but without a suitable replacement already installed on most Linux systems there's nothing I can do."
<noolness> this is for what program?
<noolness> why not just add the font?
<noolness> instead of being annoying ;)
<pwnguin> in part because the font doesnt exist yet
<noolness> oh in that case it does make sense
<pwnguin> you know of any good handwritten fonts that wont land the package in multiverse?
<imbrandon> i could make one hehe
<pwnguin> imbrandon: im after legible, not "handrwrity"
<imbrandon> nah i know nothing about fonts
<noolness> open up fontforge and make one ;)
<noolness> although you have to make it unicode and support every single character correct? (chinese and so on right?)
<pwnguin> no font does that
<noolness> you know if you render a font to a bitmap it is no longer protected by copyright law
<pwnguin> afaik, fonts cover parts of the unicode spectrum
<pwnguin> noolness: that sounds like shennanigans to me
<noolness> so render a good handwritten type phone at a relatively high resolution then trace it
<noolness> inside of font forge
<ScottK> YokoZar: No, I'm back home.
<pwnguin> wow. fontforge is like a step back to 1994
<noolness> there is a better program for making fonts? i don't make fonts, i just know you can make them in there ;)
<pwnguin> there has to be
<pwnguin> whether its packaged / free software i donno
<noolness> come on, there this is linux
<noolness> ah yeah there are probably programs that cost 2k that are better
<noolness> actually i just opened it
<noolness> it's really ugly, but it seems to be very full featured and usable
<noolness> it just doesn't have a fancy pants gnome interface....it has a much faster drawn interface instead ;)
<pwnguin> anyways, if i take the make it yourself approach, i'll probably look for some better tools
 * imbrandon yawns
 * persia provides pink pep pills
<cbx33> hi guys....does anyone know if the python-dbus package contains bindings for the Auth features of dbus?
<pwnguin> huh, if wikipeda is to be believed, fonts may not be copyrightable in some senses
<highvoltage> pwnguin: ooh
<imbrandon> some senses being a member of the pirate party ?
<nxvl> is there any convention on debian/install
<nxvl> or is just another file under debian/
<nxvl> ?
<persia> nxvl: Could you rephrase?  I think there is an answer, but I'm not sure of the question.
<highvoltage> debhelper uses it to determine which files should go into the deb, right?
<persia> highvoltage: Yes, if dh_install is called in debian/rules without arguments that indicate otherwise.
<nxvl> persia: Lior kaplan has just write me again about the efax-gtk package, i write him some days ago when i was doing the merge and to warn him about the LP bug #108746
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108746 in efax-gtk "no icon in kde menu" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108746
<nxvl> now he has write me back asking me to post my patch on BTS
<nxvl> but i'm not sure if he wants the complete debdiff or just the patch on #108746):
<persia> nxvl: That's great news.  Generally Debian maintainers prefer separated patches for specific issues, specifically excluding any changes to the changelog.
<nxvl> persia: so i need to add only huats patch
<persia> Looking at your debdiff, and the bug comments, I'm not sure exactly what to send.  The dpatch is an attractive target, but the maintainer doesn't use dpatch, so that wouldn't include any hooks to actually install the fixes.
<nxvl> persia: on the one i merge
<nxvl> it's all with dpatch
<persia> nxvl: Debian is using dpatch now?
<nxvl> and as i've discuss with him he will use dpatch as i ask him to do :D
<persia> nxvl: In that case, yes, just open a bug in the BTS, attach the dpatch, and add a Debian task to bug #108746 to track the new Debian bug.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108746 in efax-gtk "no icon in kde menu" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108746
<nxvl> whats that adding a debian task to a bug
<nxvl> that must be done on LP or in BTS?
<persia> nxvl: Once the bug is registered with the BTS, visit the bug in LP, and use the "Also Affects distribution" action to input the BTS URL.
 * Hobbsee waves
<persia> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> sky fallen in?
<persia> Hobbsee: Not yet.  At least 14 hours to go :)
<nxvl> i don't understand BTS, do i need to report the bugs sending an e-mail?
<nxvl> Hobbsee: hi
<Fujitsu> nxvl: All operations are conducted using an email interface, yes.
<persia> nxvl: Yes.  See http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<nxvl> Fujitsu: finally i found you
<Hobbsee> persia: woot!
<Hobbsee> hi nxvl
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, there are other ways to poke the BTS, but they aren't as easy.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh, good forums post
<nxvl> Fujitsu: i was looking for you about mozilla-mplayer
<nxvl> Fujitsu: i'm patching a bug and i need to know if you want to add other bug fixes
 * persia wants a URL to a "good forums post" in suspended disbelief
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, just telling them that they're silly to be running hardy yet, shoudl expect breakage, etc
 * nxvl wonders if he has talk to asap and its looking for Fujitsu or it's the oposite?
<persia> Ah.  Yes.  Hardy was stable last weekend, but is likely to be completely broken by now :)
<nxvl> persia: can i install hardy and use it?
<persia> nxvl: That's an interesting question, to which even the principals may not have an answer
<persia> nxvl: Yes, but it's unlikely to do what you want unless you like finding bugs (and there's no point filing the majority of them at this point either) :)
<persia> nxvl: On the other hand, if you'd like to keep working on bug patches and using IRC, I'd recommend sticking with gutsy, at least until DIF, and likely until FF, unless you're really confident about fixing your system when it breaks (no "if" involved)
<nxvl> i need to spleep
<Hobbsee> persia: it's not *that* broken, though.
<Hobbsee> although it thinks that i'm trying to do a partial upgrade from hardy --> gutsy
<Hobbsee> which is weird.
<persia> Hobbsee: We're not at DIF yet, and it's still UDS, so nobody is doing NBS.  Just wait another week :)
<Hobbsee> and i'm avoiding the X stuff
<Hobbsee> persia: no point doing NBS yet anyway - may as well do all the merges first.
<nxvl> persia: i will not change until it's usable, i was only kind of curious about
 * Hobbsee is eyeballing all changelogs of all updates, though :P
<persia> Hobbsee: Well, I sometimes do NBS when syncs have pulled in a partial transition, and it's breaking one of my merge builds, but otherwise I agree.
<Hobbsee> ah, true
 * persia also plans to do some NBS in response to siretart's recent request
<nxvl> i need to have some sleep
<nxvl> i hate to be so workaholic
<persia> nxvl: Sleep well.  Come back tomorrow :)
<nxvl> persia: heh, i'm at work
<nxvl> persia: i need to prepare a machine to start my lab tomorrow
<persia> nxvl: At this time of day?  Are you not in Peru?  Isn't that not a normal time to be at work?
<Hobbsee> yay, suspend fixes!
<nxvl> persia: its 2:13 am here
<persia> Hobbsee: When do we get to start fixing things again?
<Hobbsee> persia: for hardy?
<Hobbsee> persia: a week ago?
<Hobbsee> persia: hardy's been open for a while
<Hobbsee> i think things have actually built, up to X, or so
<Hobbsee> at least, that was last night
<nxvl> and today is not a working day
 * persia was responding to "suspend fixes"
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> i'm going home
<Hobbsee> persia: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/133118
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133118 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "very corrupt X after suspend/resume" [High,Fix released]
<nxvl> i will finish this tomorrow
<Hobbsee> i've not seem the bug in question, as i dont suspend much
<Fujitsu> nxvl: Ah, hi. Sorry, been studying most of the time lately.
<Fujitsu> nxvl: I've got no changes I want to make at the moment, and I've dealt with the plugin very little. Do with it what you wish.
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes.  Apparently my sense of humor late on a friday afternoon when attempting to avoid establishing paradigms for market segmentation doesn't translate well.  Sorry for the confusion.
<nxvl> Fujitsu: ok, thnx
<nxvl> k
<nxvl> see you in about 7 hours
<nxvl> :S
<Hobbsee> persia: i think i'm still a little hazy.  dont worry :)
<nxvl> bye
<Fujitsu> AFAIK this laptop is up to date to a few hours ago, with nothing held back, which is good.
<persia> Fujitsu: And that's after the full sync built?  Nice!
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see, xorg-xserver just broke video driver ABI.
<Fujitsu> (I just updated my mirror, and now it wants to kill off everything X-ish)
<Fujitsu> SO that's what everyone is complaining about.
<warp10> Hi all
<Fujitsu> Hi warp10.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, looks like it.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i suspect everything else needs to build on the new xorg-server, though
 * persia thinks X may well be the first NBS processed, or we'll have a heap of FTBFS in the queue :)
<Hobbsee> persia: huh?
<persia> Hobbsee: Lots of things build-dep on X, no?  If we change the ABI, don't we need to rebuild that to avoid dependency-wait for clients?
<Hobbsee> persia: er, various parts of it, yes.
<Hobbsee> persia: i think most of it will be synced from debian - they tend ot push it together
<Hobbsee> i dont think new people are silly enough to attempt to do X merges, while the entire X stack is being merged at the same time.
<Hobbsee> and i think the regulars know better
<Hobbsee> the newer people (who would stick patches on u-u-s) would fall over at the dependancy names and such of X, as it's quite confusing.
<persia> Hobbsee: I expect the entire NBS transition to be done by the shared efforts of the Debian and Ubuntu X maintainers, I just think it will be first.
<Hobbsee> persia: NBS had blown up prior to X transition anyway :)
 * persia looks
<Hobbsee> i think StevenK may have already done some work on it earlier.
<persia> Hobbsee: Quite possibly.  I only see six items needing real work at this point.
<Hobbsee> heh :)
 * Hobbsee advocates merging.
<persia> ("real" == "high volume of coordinated work")
<Hobbsee> done that sru for gnome-hearts yet, or you're still testing?
<Hobbsee> ah, yes
<persia> Hobbsee: Haven't even looked at it: I need to clear my plate of past commitments before chasing new ones :)
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<Hobbsee> pkern: were you doing to deal with dhelp?
<Hobbsee> persia: interesting.  these are the bugs in universe with the greatest number of dupes.  http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/tmp/gt2dups-universe.html
<Fujitsu> Can I guess the first one?
<Fujitsu> It wouldn't be gaphor, would it?
<Hobbsee> yes
 * persia seems to be assigned to the bug on the top of the list, and really promises to try to clear the plate of past committments
<Fujitsu> Hahaha.
<Hobbsee> i dont recall that being what i asked for, but it's still interesting.
<persia> Hobbsee: In good news, I do have a working gaphas locally now: I just have to find one of the myriad upstream versions of gaphor that works with it...
<Hobbsee> yay!
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What did you ask for?
<persia> Hobbsee: Oh.  From a collection of links perspective?  Thanks!  That's a good source.  Let's try to get all of them assigned, and poke people until they get done.
 * persia encourages Fujitse to look at bug 87602 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87602 in lastfm "[apport] lastfm crashed with SIGSEGV in audioCallback()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87602
<Hobbsee> persia: that wont be rerun, unless it's useful
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i asked for a list of packages in universe that had the most bugs.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ah.
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  Yes.  4783 seconds isn't quick.
<Fujitsu> 1.5 hours.. LP is efficient!
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I could probably modify one of my scraping scripts to get a list from ~ubuntu-bugs/+packagereports and sort it, like I do with ~motuscience now. But then we'd need to filter by component..
<persia> Hobbsee: I'll take a deeper look at that tonight: it may be worth running weekly or so, just to make sure we get them assigned to people who might actually fix them.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's from bughelper
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ah, that would explain the ridiculous slowness.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: and when from running it in teh DC, it's not too bad
<Fujitsu> Oh, ~ubuntu-bugs doesn't have a list of packages it is contact for. Fun.
<Hobbsee> bug #83127
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 83127 in supertuxkart ".desktop file missing" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83127
<Hobbsee> debian bug 406873)
<ubotu> Debian bug 406873 in supertuxkart "File for application menu entry (.desktop file) missing" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/406873
<Hobbsee> debian bug 406873
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What about them?
<persia> Hobbsee: If you just want bug URLs, is not #ubuntu-bugs a better channel?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Also note that the Debian bug is linked, so you can click on it on the bug page.
<Hobbsee> persia: true
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: sorry
<Hobbsee> persia: oh desktop file master...
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes?
<Hobbsee> persia: do i need to include "TryExec=/usr/games/supertuxkart" in the desktop file?
 * persia hunts context, as the answer depends on the exception handling system in place in the package
<Hobbsee> it seems that's the only part debian hastn taken.
<Hobbsee> persia: supertuxkart, i'll copy the dsektop file
<Hobbsee> persia: http://wedontsleep.org/~sarah/supertuxkart.desktop
<Fujitsu> Isn't that only used if there's an additional binary that's required for it to run?
<Hobbsee> persia: if that's not needed, we can sync it.
<persia> Fujitsu: It can also be used when there is a nice GUI handler explaining why it won't run (a nice feature for GL games), or perhaps one .desktop file for both the GL and non-GL versions.
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Look at Luca's patch.  That's an upstream change, not ours.
 * persia grumbles that merges should research package history rather than blindly trusting the parental bots
<Hobbsee> persia: ah, good.
<persia> s/merges/mergers/
<Hobbsee> yeah, well
<persia> Hobbsee: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/6988972/supertuxkart_0.2-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<Hobbsee> i didnt check luca's patch itself.
<persia> Hobbsee: I'm not in favor of bothering the last person to work on the package, but that only works if one tries to understand what the last person was doing, and why.  Otherwise we get accidental cruft.
<Hobbsee> true
 * Hobbsee files the sync request.
 * Hobbsee tries on the machine that actually *has* her gpg keys on it
<elmargol> Is there a way to pay a ubuntu developer to fix a bug i have?
<persia> elmargol: There are support arrangements for packages in main.  Some MOTUs can be bribed for packages in universe.
<pkern> Hobbsee: I'm currently MIA because I don't have a sensible Ubuntu box. I will return in two weeks, I'd guess.
<Hobbsee> use online banking?  offer a bounty?
<Hobbsee> pkern: fair enough. consider it left for you, anyway
<pkern> Hobbsee: Laptop is about to be sent to repair today.
<Hobbsee> pkern: ouch
<pkern> Hobbsee: Assign it to me if there's a bug open.
<Hobbsee> no bug open yet
<Hobbsee> it's just listed on mom
 * Hobbsee --> dinner
<pkern> Ok.
<sebastian^> good morning folks :)!
<persia> Good evening sebastian^
<sebastian^> good evening ... oh yeah, on some places on earth we don't have german time ;)
<pkern> sebastian^: They could be neglected... we're almost GMT/UTC :-P
<sebastian^> pkern: right ;)
 * persia grumbles about the other 7/8ths of the world having at least some utility
<Fujitsu> persia: We don't exist.
<persia> Fujitsu: :)
<sebastian^> so, first of all before start working i need coffee brb
<huats> morning everyone
<sebastian^> morning huats
<sebastian^> hmmm is there anywhere information what i have to note for setting up an ubuntu cd mirror?
<geser> morning
<huats> morning geser
<huats> sebastian^: I think, but I might be wrong that it is the same thing than setting up a debian one
<Kmos> morning :)
<huats> morning Kmos
<Kmos> huats: hji
<Kmos> hi
<sebastian^> hmm okay, thanks huats :)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: would be nice if you could respond to your bug report to debian.  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=423260
<ubotu> Debian bug 423260 in libkarma0 "libkarma doesnt build" [Normal,Open]
<zul> morning
<Fujitsu> Hi zul.
<deadwill> mornin' people o/
<siretart> hey deadwill!
<siretart> morning folks
<deadwill> siretart, my friend!
<deadwill> at boston?
<siretart> jupp
<siretart> just woke up
<deadwill> :)
<zul_> freak its cold
<rexbron> Hey, question time!
<persia> rexbron: What's the question?
<jpatrick> "6 * 7" = 42
<rexbron> What is the suggested course of action if an upstream ships code without a license in the headers?
<persia> rexbron: You've two choices: either bug upstream, or repack the tarball not to include that code.
<persia> jpatrick: Try that in base 13
<jpatrick> persia: I always knew there was something wrong with this place..
<rexbron> persia: at the expense of having the program (effectively) function?
<DktrKranz> rexbron, so you should ask upstream to provide them. it's not a heavy task, unless your project has lots of files
<persia> rexbron: Unfortunately.  If you can patch around it, that's nice.  If not, upstream really needs to fix it.
<bigon> does somebody know how can I get a git branch from a specific tag?
<zul> bigon: google knows
<Hobbsee> ROCK ON!  new pingus version!  more levels!
<rexbron> DktrKranz: jussi01 tackled this problem before and it took several months for upstream (one man dev team) to get around to release the source with license headers
<rexbron> I sent a patch upstream that would homoginzise
<rexbron> err homogenize
<rexbron> the license headers, as COPYING was GPL3 and many of the source files were gpl 2 or later
<rexbron> it has been about two weeks sine I sent that email
<DktrKranz> rexbron, that could be frustrating, but I think archive-admins nor ftp-masters would accept things with licensing issues
<rexbron> DktrKranz: understandably
<DktrKranz> I have a similar issue, but I asked upstream to insert them in the next release, and he seems happy with that
<persia> rexbron: The homogenisation is less important, as 2+ can be 3, but the missing headers make the archive admins reject it right away.
<rexbron> persia: afaik, the headers are all there. It was the organ files, wasn't it?
<persia> rexbron: Yep.  If I remember correctly, only one or two organs were missing the headers, so the rest of the package ought to be able to go with a repack.  If upstream fixes the licensing for the next release, we can drop repacking it (just be sure to be extra clear in your repacking comments)
<DktrKranz> rexbron, is upstream happy to insert license headers or has difficulties?
<rexbron> persia: that should be documented in the change log? and where should I place the script to repack the tarball?
<DktrKranz> (or do not reply at all)
<persia> DktrKranz: Happy, but exceedingly slow.
<rexbron> DktrKranz: Upstream is receptive to colableration, it is just a matter of finding time
<rexbron> like I said, one man dev team
<persia> rexbron: You'll mention repack in debian/changelog, you'll document why in debian/copyright, and you'll include the repacking script as part of a get-orig-source rule in debian/rules.  If you add a watch file, it will be easier to sync when upstream does their thing.
<DktrKranz> persia, my first day running piuparts was not good. Maybe I did some wrong steps, but piuparts included in ubuntu complains a lot. Now I'm going to use Debian version (which is newer)
<persia> DktrKranz: Is there Ubuntu variation to piuparts?
<DktrKranz> a huge one, IIRC
<persia> (alternately, we could be surprisingly broken)
<DktrKranz> I didn't look at a merge, though
<DktrKranz> just because I'm only chasing testing purposes, not a full run
<persia> DktrKranz: It's probably worth investigating that: there may be a reason why Debian's isn't the right choice.  Also, when you get something working, you might ping bmk789_, who might be willing to donate some cycles to help.
<DktrKranz> cycles? that's what I miss...
<DktrKranz> anyway, I tried to reinventing the wheel too by running a test based on pbuilder
<DktrKranz> it is much faster, but I'm not sure about accuracy
<persia> DktrKranz: ...cycles to help.
<persia> DktrKranz: What sort of pbuilder-based test?  Does it still do the whole install / remove / upgrade / purge testing?
<DktrKranz> it lacks install phase
<DktrKranz> *upgrade
<rexbron> persia: regarding some of your comments made on the genpo revu page, is a debian menu file necessary if a .desktop is included?
<persia> rexbron: No, but it's nice.  Some people use alternate windowing environments (e.g. fluxbox) that depend on the Debian menu infrastructure.
<DktrKranz> basically, I just prepared a script which execute some commands directly into a pbuilder environment (via pbuilder execute command)
<rexbron> ok
<DktrKranz> these commands install and purge a given package, taken from a list
<DktrKranz> just a homemade try :)
<persia> DktrKranz: Do you think it's sufficient?  You might want to find a known broken package, just to make sure it fails properly.  I'm open to alternate solutions, but want to make sure we don't miss too much.
<DktrKranz> mh.... I look at the results
<DktrKranz> here's one: http://ubuntu.linuxdc.it/installtest/fail/em8300
 * persia fondly remembers when em8300 was a more useful package
<persia> DktrKranz: Great.  If it's faster, and can feed us some basic issues to start, I'm happy.  I'd like full testing prior to release, but anything is better than now, where we're blind.
<geser> does the piuparts from gutsy work for someone? I get a python traceback when I try to use it
<DktrKranz> geser, that's the error I got
<DktrKranz> using 0.28 solves that for me
<DktrKranz> but it's debian version
<geser> ok, so it's not me who called piuparts wrong
<DktrKranz> at least we are two
<persia> geser: No, you're doing it right
<rexbron> persia: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43013/
<geser> from the changelog entry for the ubuntu changes it looks like I don't need them and will try to use Debian package
<persia> rexbron: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/07/msg00000.html
<DktrKranz> persia, running pbuilder homemade tests on multiverse took me about 10 hours on a *very* old hardware. Using it on a powerful box will boost performances.
<persia> DktrKranz: How many packages?
<DktrKranz> I was not able to "answer" maintainer script questions, though. Is there a dpkg/apt option to do so and choose the default answer?
<DktrKranz> persia, about 500
<persia> DktrKranz: preseeding is likely your solution
<persia> So, universe would be about 300 hours for you?  Maybe 100 on a more modern system?
<DktrKranz> 500 binary packages. universe is almost 30 times bigger
<persia> DktrKranz: Ah.  500 vs 25,000.  So, 500 hours for you, maybe 150 on modern hardware?
<DktrKranz> I fear so
<Fujitsu> It should be able to be fairly easily split over several people, shouldn't it?
<DktrKranz> if we get a local ubuntu mirror, maybe we should be able to reduce it
<persia> Fujitsu: Absolutely.  Also, if someone has a multiproc multicore server, it's even less.
<persia> DktrKranz: Oh, yes.  Very much so.
<DktrKranz> how many gb is ubuntu archive?
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: About 12GiB per release per arch, plus about that much for source.
<Fujitsu> Doing much without a local mirror is likely to make things very slow, and be generally silly.
<DktrKranz> so... the main point is we should have at least two tests, one for i386 and one for amd64
<persia> Fujitsu: Depends on geography.  Those in .kr have only rare needs for local mirrors due to country-wide fast ethernet fabirc
<Fujitsu> True.
<persia> DktrKranz: Sounds sane to me.  If we can do lpia & sparc, that'd be cool too.
<DktrKranz> lpia
<Fujitsu> Does anybody have sparc machines?
<DktrKranz> chroots should non be an issue
<persia> Low Power Intel Architecure
<Hobbsee> persia: you'll be there via voip for the motu processes thing today, i assume?
<DktrKranz> since they should run on i386 hardware without many issues
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Thanks for reminding me: I need to test my voip
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: Right, LPIA will run fine on i386/amd64.
<persia> Fujitsu: Should it be run against x86_64 or ia32?
<Fujitsu> persia: It's closer to ia32, but x86_64 is pretty much a superset of that, so is fine.
<DktrKranz> IIRC lpia is not much different from a common i386
<Fujitsu> LPIA isn't really an architecture, it's more a set of optimisations.
<Fujitsu> Or other low-power/mobile-specific changes.
<persia> Right.  I just wasn't sure if the kernel was setting the underlying processor in an emulation mode, etc.  If there's no need to worry about architecure when seeking hosting for the run, I'm not worried.
<SWAT> I'm currently trying to package some software, but my spirits are low, any mental help would be appreciated. I have the feeling that I've taken on something too complicated (trying to build packages for firebird from scratch)
<DktrKranz> bigon, try with cogito: cg-clone git.repo.url#tagname
<Fujitsu> SWAT: Don't we already have firebird packages in the archive?
<bigon> DktrKranz: thx
<SWAT> yes, but they aren't the latest version and am giving me quite a few issues (and I thought it would be a nice training if I could package it_
<SWAT> Fujitsu, yes
<proppy> hi
<joejaxx> jdong: ping if you are still around :)
<joejaxx> proppy: hi
 * TheMuso_Boston kills another merge.
<dholbach> rock on Bostonian TheMuso
<TheMuso_Boston> lol
<zul> dholbach: the motu bof is at 11 correct?
<dholbach> zul: yeah
<zul> okies ill listen in
<TheMuso_Boston> Unles the schedule changes.
<zul> true
<dholbach> TheMuso_Boston: that's a fixed one
<TheMuso_Boston> Ok.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: do i even want to ask about blobwars?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: what about it ?
 * zul ducks yet again
<Hobbsee> Kmos: what's your patch?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Er, did I see an attachment go missing?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: looks like rainct has provided a bug
<Hobbsee> er, a patch
<Hobbsee> and you've added another?
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> nop
<Hobbsee> Kmos: oh, you've removed the patch.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: why?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i removed the first one, that's not complete as rainct said
 * persia notes that the removed patch was a different LP URL than RainCT's patch,
<Kmos> the one in the bug, is the correct one
<Hobbsee> ...
<Hobbsee> what were you told about hijacking bugs?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i just tried to clean it up
<Hobbsee> taht doesnt answer the question.
<Hobbsee> if someone files a bug with a patch, you leave it alone.
<Kmos> ok, i just tried to clean it up, to motu members not spend more time that is needed
<Kmos> sorry
 * Hobbsee recalls you saying "ok, i wont do that again" back in gutsy.
 * Kmos lunch
<Kmos> i need to go
<Hobbsee> funny, that.
<khanreaper> Anyone willing to review a package?
<persia> khanreaper: Which package?
<khanreaper> `darkplaces' on revu.tauware.de.
<persia> khanreaper: URL?
<khanreaper> Linda and lintian have been very loving of it. ;-)
<persia> khanreaper: Did you run them against the binary package as well?
<khanreaper> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=darkplaces
<khanreaper> Oui.
<persia> Tres bien
<proppy> khanreaper: dans la bouche
<persia> Ugh.  Obj-C.  Grumble...
<khanreaper> As far as I know, the Quake I engine did not use Objective-C.
<persia> khanreaper: Just reacting to foo.app.  Anyway, does darkplaces-data install all the /usr/share/games/darkplaces/idi/* ?
<khanreaper> /usr/share/games/darkplaces/dpmod.
<khanreaper> Normal users woud be required to install proprietary game data into /usr/share/games/darkplaces/id1, per the customary rules of the Quake I engine.
<persia> khanreaper: OK.  I guess I'm confused about how the user uses this then.  Does it rely on non-free content from the original game distribution?
<khanreaper> Yes.
<khanreaper> Well, users can use free content replacements.
<khanreaper> They exist.
<khanreaper> This package is akin to the various Doom packages in Debian.
<persia> khanreaper: Ah.  It may be worth setting the appropriate Recommends: on the free content, just to make the package work out of the box.  As it is, I'm looking it over, but I won't be able to test.
<khanreaper> The reason that there is a data package is that the engine, while completely backward-compatible with old data, uses some new GPL resources in places.
<khanreaper> Let me examine what open content alternatives there are.
<persia> khanreaper: Thanks.  Also, is anything actually GPL-3?  It may be worth pointing to GPL-2 in copyright rather than GPL-e.
<persia> s/e/3
<khanreaper> It is GPL-2 per http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/darkplaces-0710311610/darkplaces-20070927.r7592/COPYING.
<persia> khanreaper: Right, but the link mentioned in debian/copyright is GPL-3.  It's GPL-2 (or later), so that's not necessarily a problem, but worth looking at.
<khanreaper> OK. :-)
<persia> khanreaper: I'd also suggest renaming darkplaces-dedicated to darkplaces-server, just to make it clear for people too lazy to read the descriptions.
<khanreaper> Are you referring to the filesystem URI pointing to v. 3?
<persia> khanreaper: /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL is a symlink to GPL-3
<persia> khanreaper: I also don't see much difference between the -glx and -sdl manpages.  Am I missing something?  Could they perhaps be combined (and hardlinked at install) in darkplaces-data?
<khanreaper> There is an open Quake data projected called Open Quartz, but it isn't packaged.
<persia> khanreaper: Well, there's your next project :)
<khanreaper> Heh.
<khanreaper> So, I would be willing to point to Quake III package as precedent for this one to be packaged as it is.
<persia> khanreaper: Why are you installing the todo in /usr/share/doc ?
<khanreaper> To my understanding, it is incumbent on the user to have the proprietary game data to run.
<khanreaper> That was something that debhelper must have added.
<persia> khanreaper: I'd not reject it from universe for lacking data, but it'll likely linger until someone with the data can test.
<khanreaper> Also on certain systems, it is more desirable to use either GLX or SDL.
<khanreaper> It really depends.
<khanreaper> There are tradeoffs for each.
<persia> I completely agree with the package split for -glx / -sdl, I just didn't see any difference between the man pages.
<persia> (aside from the name, etc.)
<khanreaper> The commandline flags are the same.
<khanreaper> It is just a different backend.
<khanreaper> Plus, I only extracted the important CLI flags from the source fles.
<persia> Right.  To save archive space, it'd be nice to have the darkplaces-data package contain a single manpage that applied for whichever of -glx / -sdl the user had installed.
<persia> (two copies for the archive, instead of 18)
<khanreaper> OK. I will revisit these issues and reupload shortly.
<persia> khanreaper: No rush.  I'm distracted by several other things.  Wait a bit more, and I'll feed you more :)
<khanreaper> Quite a few other packages install TODOs---e.g., qemu, rsnapshot, bzr, etc.
<persia> khanreaper: Would you mind adding a watch file: it makes it much more likely the package can be maintained.  Also, I don't see any menu entries, either .desktop or debian-style.
<persia> Yes they do.  I just don't think the contents of darkplaces todo is of much interest to users.
<persia> (it's also really hard to read)
<khanreaper> This really isn't a package that can be started by a .desktop with ease.
<persia> khanreaper: Even the clients?
<persia> khanreaper: I'd agree about the server: that needs a manual start, but I'm envisioning one person running the server, and their freinds with laptops connecting for a deathmatch.
<khanreaper> Most people use a utility like xqf, which is part of the distribution.
<khanreaper> I could make a menu entry.
<khanreaper> I guess I am just too used to my game workflow .;-)
<persia> khanreaper: That'd be nice.  perhaps something that calls xqf in the standard manner.
<persia> khanreaper: Also, builddate.c doesn't have a license.  It's silly, as it's one line, but it's policy.
<persia> khanreaper: Also, Ubuntu doesn't use /usr/X11R6/lib64 for anything.  You'll likely want to patch the makefile more agressively.
<rrittenhouse> Is it just me or is vmware not in Gutsy (32bit or 64bit) ?
<persia> !vmware gutsy
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about vmware gutsy - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Fujitsu> rrittenhouse: It is proprietary, so why would it be?
<persia> Fujitsu: -partner?
<LjL> that would be !info vmware gutsy
<Nafallo> archive.canonical.com ?
<Fujitsu> (vmware-player was removed because it was built against prehistoric libraries)
<LjL> anyway, the player is not available anymore - the server might be somewhere in Canonical's repos, not sure
<persia> !info vmware gutsy
<ubotu> Package vmware does not exist in gutsy
<rrittenhouse> It was in commercial last time.
<rrittenhouse> ah
<Fujitsu> persia, Nafallo: Wouldn't call that `in gutsy'.
<persia> rrittenhouse: vmware-player 1.x got knocked out for security reasons.  2.x apparently didn't get in.  Perhaps try an alternative?
<rrittenhouse> I should have specified vmware server. Ill just create a package for it or somethin
<rrittenhouse> thx
<persia> khanreaper: I'm not seeing anything else at first glance, but I've only hunted about half the source files for copyright.
<sladen> Hobbsee: there's another motu session in 10minutes
<TheMuso_Boston> Anbody know why appart from being blacklisted, which it is not, a package hasn't been picked up by the autosync? The package was updated in September.
<Hobbsee> sladen: cool, thanks.
<TheMuso_Boston> The package in question is nifticlib
<TheMuso_Boston> Debian has 0.6, but hardy still only has 0.41
<Fujitsu> TheMuso_Boston: It hasn't moved to contrib or non-free?
<TheMuso_Boston> Fujitsu: let me check.
<Fujitsu> Hm, that looks fine..
<zul> ow...
<Fujitsu> TheMuso_Boston: It was synced more than a week ago.
<TheMuso_Boston> Fujitsu: hmmm ok.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso_Boston: But there are more than 1500 outstanding builds - it's probably one of them.
<Fujitsu> Hm, no, I have 0.6-1 binaries here.
<TheMuso_Boston> Fujitsu: The source hasn't even synced.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso_Boston: Yes it has..
<TheMuso_Boston> This is from archive.ubuntu.com
<Fujitsu> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nifticlib
<TheMuso_Boston> Fujitsu: Its not in hardy changes.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso_Boston: Autosyncs don't appear there.
<persia> TheMuso_Boston: That happens sometimes :(
<TheMuso_Boston> Um ok.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ever?  I swear I've seen a bunch by "Ubuntu Installer".  Are those all manual syncs?
<TheMuso_Boston> Ok. I forgot to check lp.
<Fujitsu> persia: Those are manual, yeah.
<TheMuso_Boston> Ok it must be in the new queue somewhere. it has built.
<TheMuso_Boston> Oh well, I'll just have to wait.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso_Boston: The binaries and source are on archive.ubuntu.com...
<h4x0r7h11> Is there somewhere I can look to get an explanation for why a package was removed??
<h4x0r7h11> (libapache2-mod-security, in dapper, not in feisty)
<TheMuso_Boston> Fujitsu: No thats what I'm saying.
<Fujitsu> h4x0r7h11: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt
<Fujitsu> TheMuso_Boston: What are you saying?
<persia> h4x0r7h11: For a more verbose description, you might also look for "Fix Released" bugs against the package that request removal.
<TheMuso_Boston> Since the binary packages changed, its in binary new.
<h4x0r7h11> persia:  I would find that in launchpad?
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<TheMuso_Boston> Fujitsu: No worries, I've pinpointed it.
<TheMuso_Boston> As I said, I'll just have to wait.
<persia> h4x0r7h11: Yes.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/source-package-name/+bugs, and then "Advanced Search"
<zul> jono: i guess comments from the peanut gallery for the bof will be from here as well
<h4x0r7h11> persia:  ah I see.  It's a license conflict, not a non-open-source issue
<persia> h4x0r7h11: linuxsampler?
<h4x0r7h11> persia:  mod security is GPL, apache is APL, mod_security uses apache headers, this creates a license conflict
<h4x0r7h11> persia:  upstream created the conflict on purpose
<persia> h4x0r7h11: Ah.  Sorry: the other happens to be my most frequently answered license conflict question :)
<h4x0r7h11> persia:  upstream seems to be playing the business field; binaries become non-redistributable technically, though fedora et al don't seem to care (gentoo doesn't have to care)
<persia> h4x0r7h11: Ah.  Annoying that.
<h4x0r7h11> persia:  projection:  if Apache upstream kept the source APL but re-licensed the headers MIT, the conflict would go away with pretty much no (expected) damage to control of the Apache source (someone could rip off the headers and re-wrtie the actual programming logic; let's all clap for them)
<h4x0r7h11> persia:  Further projection:  Upstream mod_security would get pissed off, de-GPL mod_security, and make it a closed source product in response.
<persia> h4x0r7h11: That there is an interesting solution.  Perhaps an interesting lobbying challenge?
<h4x0r7h11> persia:  Licensing is more personal than functional in most cases (in this case it's functional).  I might as well be arguing religion if I try to push that idea to upstream Apache :)
 * Fujitsu decides it's probably time for bed.
<TheMuso_Boston> MOTu process session about to start at UDS.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: But it's only 11am
<Fujitsu> TheMuso_Boston: Yeah, unfortunately late.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: -stabs-
<TheMuso_Boston> Fujitsu: Yeah I know.
<StevenK> Ouch!
 * Fujitsu cackles evilly.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Just think of me being horribly jet-lagged on the 12th
<Fujitsu> StevenK: True, true.
<Fujitsu> This is almighty Daniel speaking?
<h4x0r7h11> persia:  also, the entire issue describes modules as being a derivative work of Apache because they use Apache headers to build.  Interface being non-copyrightable, you can likely get away with doing a number of things, like rewriting your own apache headers ;)
<jono> zul: peanut gallary?
<jono> gallery
<Hobbsee> jono: comments from those not there
<jono> eh?
<Hobbsee> jono: ie, comments from the peanut gallery
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, it's daniel.
<jono> right
<slangasek> hum, not really tha traditional meaning of "peanut gallery" :)
<siretart> Hobbsee: is that you?
<Hobbsee> siretart: no.  it's the green alien.
<siretart> oh
<Hobbsee> slangasek: that's what i'm assuming it is, anwyay
 * Hobbsee waves to jbailey
<jbailey> Hobbsee: Heya!
<h4x0r7h11> persia:  if you want to play politics, poke bluefoxicy later when I'm not at work
<persia> h4x0r7h11: No.  I have enough games to play :)
 * Fujitsu hides from Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: :P
 * Hobbsee beats Fujitsu with a stick
<TheMuso_Boston> lol
 * StevenK idly notes Fujitsu is typing a lot for someone who is sleeping
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Sssh.
 * TheMuso_Boston is going to look at the uus queue next week when he returns.
 * h4x0r7h11 takes the stick away from Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> you cant.
<Fujitsu> h4x0r7h11: Biiiiig mistake.
<jbailey> You assume there's only one?
 * Hobbsee DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMS h4x0r7h11
<h4x0r7h11> jbailey:  eventually I will remove all of them and distaff Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> youc ant.
<jbailey> I thought she had a collection for fending off mneptok.
<TheMuso_Boston> The connection here is somewhat slow, and the local mirror is somewhat broken.
<TheMuso_Boston> So merges for me at least, will now wait till I get back home.
<deadwill> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya deadwill
<rexbron> persia: problem. All of the organ files rely on the .dtd file to define the xml stucture. Does that mean that I would have to remove all of organ files, seeing as they will not work if it is not specified?
<rexbron> actually, that question is open to any MOTU
<persia> I'm willing to risk pushing a DTD without the comment, if all the organs have the comment.
<rexbron> I  will remove the organs that do not (only two I believe)
<persia> rexbron: Great.  I think you'll be in good shape for approval come REVU day :)
<rexbron> cool
<slangasek> the left kidney and the spleen?
<rexbron> persia: with the get-orig-source rule, would I be alowed to make the asumption that it is being run from the debian dir and that the tarball exists two dir up?
<persia> slangasek: It's actually your call which organs have to go.  We just picked the ones without embedded GPL :)
<slangasek> heh
<persia> rexbron: No.  Some people make the assumption that it runs from the package directory, but policy says it should run from any directory.
<persia> rexbron: Hold on a bit: I'll find you a wiki page with some guidelines
<rexbron> wtf do you mean that if my heart is GPL2-Only and the blood can't link up with anything elese
<rexbron> </joke>
 * siretart waves to sistpoty|UDS 
 * sistpoty|UDS waves back to siretart
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#head-6362ca31f03c0e20eec18b76830024371a410acb
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi persia
<sistpoty|UDS> hi persia and bddebian
<jbailey> beedeebeedeebeedeebeedeebeedeebeedeebeedee.
<jbailey> bddebian: What's up, Buck?
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|UDS
<bddebian> Jeff!
<bddebian> What the heck are you doing here? :)
<persia> HI bddebian.  I previously volunteered you for the scorched3d stuff.  Hit me if I misinterpreted what you were saying earlier.
<jbailey> IZ IN YOUR MOTU CHANNEL, LISTENING TO YER BOF
<bddebian> persia: Not at all, I'm trying to ping Fuddl but getting nothing back :-(
<Fujitsu> jbailey: OH NOES
<bddebian> jbailey: Nice
<persia> bddebian: Prep a candidate somewhere for review :)
<bddebian> Well I'm trying to figure out what was ripped out to make it dfsg first :-(
<deadwill> hey bddebian :)
<bddebian> Hi deadwill
<Fujitsu> Who's that with the really odd mic?
<Hobbsee> i was wondering that myself
 * persia  
<Hobbsee> ahhh...
<Fujitsu> persia: Ahh.
<persia> It worked when I tested with Ng, but seems to have completely failed just in time for the session :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, it works, just you sound very electronic and quiet.
<Hobbsee> sigh, SRU's.
<Hobbsee> it's a shell script, done with espeak.  it's not really persia at all.
<persia> Hobbsee: Shhhh!
<persia> Nobody is supposed to be able to identify turing failures
<Fujitsu> persia: It is better.
<Fujitsu> Ah, that's much better.
<Fujitsu> Still fairly electronic, but very audible.
<persia> That makes all the difference.  Just needed more gain.
 * persia still needs to work on the "humanise" filter
<rexbron> persia: how exactly would you make the get-orig-source run from any dir?
<rexbron> would you call it like <topsource dir>/debian/rules get-orig-source
<persia> rexbron: Well, you could perhaps grab $(pwd) in a variable, change to where you want, do your thing (perhaps using $(pwd) to tweak the result), and then go back to where the user started.  There are other models, depending on how your rule works, and how dependent it is on other parts of the package.
<rexbron> persia: I guess my question is, how will I know where the orig tarball resides?
<rexbron> right now I am making the assumtion that it will funtion like uupdate
<rexbron> in that the user has the tarball one dir up
<persia> I recommend dropping the orig tarball in the directory from which the user calls the rule, or one level beneath (as you like).
<rexbron> persia: still, is  it expected that this rule DL's a fresh tarball?
<persia> rexbron: Yep.  Download a tarball, and modify it to match the current practice.  That allows people to verify the md5sums and ensure you didn't insert a trojan.
<Fujitsu> persia: You're beeping.
<Fujitsu> Just beeping.
 * persia grumbles, and gives up.
<Fujitsu> We got a few words, but then it... degraded.
<persia> Fujitsu: Could you proxy?  I think people should set themselves as maintainer if they don't want someone else to touch it: otherwise it's fair game.
<Fujitsu> persia: I'm not really in a position where I can speak, sorry.
<Fujitsu> persia: That's working very well now.
 * Fujitsu is really going to bed now... almost 4am.
<Hobbsee> hehe
 * Hobbsee is thinking that, too
<Fujitsu> Night, everyone.
<persia> Good night Fujitse
<pochu> Nafallo: would you mind if I do irssi's merge?
<rexbron> I am unsure on how to call the watch file in debian/ such that it downloads to the pwd
<persia> rexbron: I thought there was an example on that wiki page.  Let me find another...
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/DebianWatch
<persia> rexbron: I need to be off, but if you can't make it work, just assume that the you are in the package base directory.  It's a common compromise, if not entirely desireable.
<manchicken> Anybody managing the argus-server/client packages?
<norsetto> bddebian: you may want to have a look at bug 159583
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159583 in pixelize "menu entry has no icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159583
<somerville32> Once PPA goes public, do we plan on recommending people use that instead of pbuilder?
 * jpatrick strokes his pbuilder
<jpatrick> somerville32: I think that'll put a lot of load on the buildds
<bddebian> somerville32: I won't be using it :)
<pochu> somerville32: ppas take some hours to build, whereas pbuilder only takes some minutes :)
<gnomefreak> bryce: are you around?
<hellboy195> pochu: some hours? that depend how big the programm is and how much traffic on launchpad. I also build a package in 5 min ;)
<pwnguin> time to build, or time to get out of the queue?
<gnomefreak> pochu: its been real slow due to floods of lang packs and something else we were days behind. but they just added a 3rd i386 buildd
<pochu> gnomefreak: really? that's fine :)
<pochu> hellboy195, pwnguin: time to get to the builders...
<pochu> I don't have to wait for some hours here for it to get started :)
<hellboy195> pochu: ^^ yeah the languagepacks are hard ^^
<gnomefreak> pochu: the buildds are still playing catch up from that. something like 700+ gnome lang packs were uploaded last week or so
<hellboy195> gnomefreak: yeah. 3 days waiting for uns :(
<hellboy195> *us
<gnomefreak> yep it happened to all of us
<pochu> gnomefreak: but my ppa uploads were more than a week ago, and they took several hours... but if there are more builders then that shouldn't be that long now :)
<gnomefreak> there are 3 buildds now i believe there was 1 maybe 2 up until early this week
<gnomefreak> brb i have to spin iceape again
<cyberix> "Does anyone want to review my package!"
<cyberix> (/me wonders, if this is the correct way to do this)
<gnomefreak> cyberix: ask and post link they will get to it when they get time, doesnt always happen right away
<gnomefreak> assuming you pushed to revu that is
<cyberix> Does anyone want to review my package!
<cyberix> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<jpatrick> cyberix: version should be 6.2-0ubuntu1
<DktrKranz> cyberix, you should also set target to hardy, not gutsy
<DktrKranz> and look at lintian report, it contains a couple of things which have to be adjusted
<mohammad> Hello, would you please merge libswt3.3 to Ubuntu Hardy? http://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=names&keywords=libswt-gtk-3.3
<Nafallo> pochu: go for it! :-)
<imbrandon> jdong, looks like mohammad wants you !
<cyberix> jpatrick: Should I use that as the version number everywhere?
<jdong> mohammad: doko and man-di would be the experts on doing that. We will not be directly using Debian packaging but rather upgrade our eclipse stack altogether to get swt 3.3
<jdong> mohammad: volunteers welcome.
<jpatrick> cyberix: as long as it's not in ubuntu or debian
<cyberix> jpatrick: e.g. foldername?
<jpatrick> cyberix: no, folder name stays the same
<cyberix> :-/
<jdong> ok, now back to work... no calls :P
<mohammad> jdong: Do you think if there is any possibility that swt3.3 be merged to hardy?
<pochu> Nafallo: thank you :)
<cyberix> jpatrick: Should I increase version number while still working in revu?
<jdong> mohammad: please read my response. No, Ubuntu's packagers for swt and related disagree with how it's done in Debian. We will not be syncing or merging debian packaging.
<cyberix> jpatrick: Os should 6.2-0ubuntu1 be the initial published one?
<jpatrick> cyberix: no, only for uploads to ubuntu
<Nafallo> pochu: upstream mailed me btw. want me to forward the mail so you can answer it when it's done? ;-)
<mohammad> jdong: Sorry, I meant do you think Ubuntu's packager will make a new package for Hardy? The reason I am asking this question is that we are packaging a program for Debian which needs swt3.3
<pochu> Nafallo: please :)
<jdong> mohammad: Most likely, yes, swt3.3 will be packaged before Hardy releases
<Nafallo> pochu: nick at ubuntu dot com, right?
<jdong> mohammad: I have packages myself that depend on swt3.3 too :)
<mohammad> unavailability of 3.3 means we have to change the source code. because our main target is Ubuntu not Debian
<pochu> Nafallo: yup
<mohammad> jdong: great. Thank you for your help :)
<cyberix> The package will most likely be going to Multiverse. Do I have to do something special about it?
<jdong> mohammad: sure thing. As I said, the two people I mentioned before are the experts around here on SWT/Java; I'm just echoing what they've told me
<Nafallo> pochu: two mails sent.
<pochu> Thank you.
<cyberix> jpatrick: The package will most likely be going to Multiverse. Do I have to do something special about it?
<jpatrick> cyberix: no, it does it by itself
<cyberix> ok
<silwol> can somebody tell me what the necessary steps are to split a debian package in an arch-independent data and arch-dependent binary package?
<jpatrick> cyberix: if a build-dep is in multi- it automagically gets sent there
<silwol> i already put secretmaryo into a package, but when i split it up (i looked at the supertux3 package for information) the data files still stay in the binary package
<danboid> hi there!
<cyberix> jpatrick: I don't think that is the case here
<danboid> I'm got a package that I've compiled under gutsy thats missing from the repos and I'm considering packaging it- I've already reported it as a bug on launchpad
<cyberix> jpatrick: Debhelper is going to be the only builddep it seems.
<jpatrick> cyberix: so it's in universe :)
<cyberix> jpatrick: No. It is lacking source code.
<danboid> but there is a slight prob- something I need to know before I go ahead and create the package
<danboid> prob being that its a 'dead' app, development has ceased and I'm not a coder but the prog works great and is best of its kind for Linux
<somerville32> Where are the binary packages for hardy kept?
<jpatrick> somerville32: in the repos?
<somerville32> ...
<rexbron> :p
<somerville32> at http://archive.ubuntu.com
<somerville32> I want to download debootstrap for hardy so that I can create a pbuilder environment for it
<danboid> could this prevent my package being accepted into universe?
<bddebian> danboid: It shouldn't, though it would be ideal to have an active upstream
<rexbron>  somerville32, look at packages.ubuntu.com
<rexbron> there is a dl link on the packages page
<danboid> bddebian: of course! That's good news though. Once I have my deb, who shall I send it to?
<bddebian> danboid: Upload it to REVU
<danboid> its's got to be checked by a couple of MOTUs right?
<bddebian> Yes
<somerville32> rexbron, On the front page?
<rexbron> somerville32: use the search field
<rexbron> somerville32: and select hardy as a distro to searcg
<nenolod> hi minghua
<minghua> Hello nenolod.
<somerville32> thanks
<nenolod> would anyone happen to know when next sync from debian/main happens for hardy?
<cyberix> How long does it take for my dput -f to become visible on REVU site?
<somerville32> 5-15 minutes
<Jazzva> I think I read somewhere that diff from *.po files should be removed when merging, but I can't find it atm. Is that right?
<somerville32> I believe so
<Jazzva> Hmm, ok... Thanks somerville32
<LaserJock> we should maybe have the written down somewhere
<somerville32> Is the following warning unacceptable?
<somerville32> W: catfish source: debian-rules-ignores-make-clean-error line 30
<Jazzva> LaserJock: The removal of po files? I think it already is, but I can't find it right now. I can add it to the Merging page on wiki.
<Jazzva> somerville32: I think somethign along the "if [ -f Makefile ] ;make clean; fi;" should work, but I'm not sure about syntax.
<LaserJock> Jazzva: well, we need a definitive statement and then it should go somewhere where people will find it
<Jazzva> LaserJock: I think that the Merging page is a good place for that :). Just if it's a definitive statement...
<LaserJock> well, I would say maybe UbuntuDevelopment or something
<joejaxx> jdong: are you ever going to come by? :P
<somerville32> When I try to create a new dpatch, it tells me it doesn't exist -_-
<pochu> somerville32: use 'dpatch-edit-patch patch 10_your_patch_name.dpatch'
<bddebian> somerville32: Add this: [ ! -f Makefile ] ||   before -$(MAKE) clean (or distclean)
<somerville32> pochu, That is what I'm using. Oh wait. I know the issue.
<somerville32> I added it to 00list so it looking to apply it
<cyberix> Can I get the lintian error log somehow without uploading the package to REVU?
<LaserJock> cyberix: sure
<LaserJock> run lintian on your package
<LaserJock> :-)
<imbrandon> lintian and linda
<cyberix> :-)
<cyberix> That sure shortens the debugging cycle
<somerville32> :-]
<norsetto> cyberix: remember to run them on both the source package and the binary ones
<cyberix> norsetto: ACK
<jpatrick> any revu admins around?
<cyberix> My package should depend on X, but which package would be correct?
<crimsun_> do you mean "the X Window System" or a virtual package you happen to call "X"?
<crimsun_> (and you'll need to be specific regarding /which/ part of the X Window System is necessary if you are in fact referring to the former)
<cyberix> Well, I depend on Wine and I first expected it to depend on X, but it apparrently doesn't.
<cyberix> So now I'd need to figure out which parts of X it uses while running the piece of software I'm packaging
<cyberix> I don't see how I could easily do that.
<crimsun_> wine doesn't imply an X Window System dependency
<crimsun_> (e.g., try running the Monkey's Audio executable, mac.exe, through Wine.  There's no X Window System dependency.)
<minghua> crimsun_: Do you really run mac.exe through wine?
<crimsun_> minghua: I have, historically, but I don't currently.
<minghua> crimsun_: Do you know there is mac's source for linux floating around, then?
<crimsun_> minghua: yes, I'm aware of it and its potential license landmine, even
<minghua> (probably it's better to use mplayer's decoder now, though)
<minghua> Right, license landmine indeed.
<crimsun_> right, now ffmpeg has a decoder of some fashion, but I'm not convinced it's feasible [since ffmpeg is in Ubuntu main]
<crimsun_> cyberix: wine seems to Depend on the core libs and then some.  Are there any "Missing extension foo" errors?
<minghua> Yeah.  But at least the licensing situation is clear.
<gnomefreak> crimsun_: are you gonna be around in a few hours or tomorrow?
<crimsun_> gnomefreak: I'll be around until 9ish tonight EDT
<crimsun_> possibly 10 if the coffee shop remains open - haven't been here in a while so I don't recall the hours
<gnomefreak> ok ill see if i have GUI around than
<crimsun_> ok
<gnomefreak> i ran into issues with trilug site
<gnomefreak> hopfully iceape is fixed and i can boot gutsy
<somerville32> Why is there two QA tools (linda + lintian)?
<somerville32> Why not just have one?
<LaserJock> because linda sucks less? ;-)
<crimsun_> inertia, probably.
<crimsun_> case in point: despite oss and alsa both existing, neither are going anywhere anytime soon.  We end up with the quagmire that is audio in Linux.
<LaserJock> good example
<Nafallo> ehrm
<Nafallo> when did I become the bug contact for erlang? :-P
<Burgundavia> the you-touched-it-last beast
 * Nafallo goes to rectify ;-)
<Nafallo> I hate erlang!
<Nafallo> I didn't touched it last btw...
<Nafallo> I rather think I was out of my mind one evening.
<Nafallo> one I can't remember
<LaserJock> in Debian they guilt people into taking on packages "Think of all the poor orphans"
<LaserJock> in Ubuntu we just have random LP "bugs" that assign you packages ;-)
<Nafallo> lol
<somerville32> Why isn't revu hosted by Canonical?
<Nafallo> somerville32: it is.
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> Why does it have the domain that it has?
<somerville32> Why not revu.ubuntu.com or something?
<Nafallo> somerville32: ask siretart. it's his domain ;-)
<somerville32> Does revu purge accounts?
<somerville32> It says I don't have one.
<pwnguin> so on a scale from 1 to 10 how evil is c# in ubuntu?
<crimsun_> with 1 being least evil?  Probably about a 1.
<Nafallo> pwnguin: ajmitch slomo_ should know :-)
<pwnguin> apparently the guy who wrote egoboo wrote a sequel
<pwnguin> but i have no idea how to compile it and it currently shipts a .vcproj
<norsetto> g'night good folks
<pwnguin> hrm
<pwnguin> maybe its just C code with some goofy macros
 * pwnguin loves porting windows programs
<pwnguin> you get all sorts of stupid errors like capitalization
<somerville32> :)
<imbrandon> pwnguin, isnt .vcproj a c++.net project file , e.g. Visual Studio 2005+
<pwnguin> i have no idea anymore
<pwnguin> but this is all C
<imbrandon> and yes i agree with crimsun_ , c# / mono on ubuntu/debian is about the best ootb setup there is for mono
<pwnguin> with some ridiulus macros
<pwnguin> well, i was thinking about how well recieved beagle was
<pwnguin> and mono
<imbrandon> there are quite a few mono apps in ubuntu, its a official dep of gnome iirc
<pwnguin> that doesnt sound right
<imbrandon> f-spot, beagle, banshie are a few i know about
<StevenK> banshee
<imbrandon> yea lol
<somerville32> Can someone pretty please review my upload? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=499
<cyberix> Ok. I worked the issues that were mentioned. Is there still something? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<pwnguin> i dont think any of those are officially gnome
<Nafallo> tomboy
<somerville32> Gnome does depend on mono, pretty sure
<Nafallo> pwnguin: apt-cache showsrc nautilus
<pwnguin> Nafallo: ?
<somerville32> imbrandon, Would you review my package? :]
<Nafallo> pwnguin: that will show some beagle stuff IIRC :-)
<Nafallo> pwnguin: in the build-deps.
<imbrandon> somerville32, give me a few moments and i can have a look
<pwnguin> nope
<somerville32> imbrandon, Thanks :)
<pwnguin> oh, there it is
<pwnguin> after launchpad integration and before tracker client
<pwnguin> sounds like an Ubuntu thing. oh well. its all moot, as this is just C
<Burgundavia> anybody here to do a quick review of a post before it goes live?
<crimsun> sure, url?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, i can peek too if you like
<somerville32> me too
<crimsun> how should I be correcting?
<Burgundavia> tell me in the PM
<crimsun> (not identified, don't recall the pass)
<Burgundavia> crimsun: can you not see the URL?
<pwnguin> is there a standard header for C typedefing BOOL?
<crimsun> I saw it, but I'm trying to find a way to tell you corrections
<Burgundavia> crimsun: just tell me in PM, if that works
<james_w> Just to let you know that I believe it should be possible to sync accerciser, even though MoM shows conflicts. I can't work on it myself at the moment though.
<Burgundavia> I would create you an account, but that sets a precedent. however, you are a person that I don't see a problem with having the account
<Burgundavia> imbrandon, somerville32: sorry, crimsun was faster
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, no worries
<imbrandon> pwnguin, no since Gnome 2.16 Mono is an official dependency, loking for the revelant links now
<imbrandon> its not just a Ubuntu thing
<imbrandon> looking*
<_16aR_> Hello
<somerville32> Hiya :)
<_16aR_> is it possible to create package only docs ?
<_16aR_> like : debian/packagename.docs
<imbrandon> e.g. make a packeg containing only documentaion
<imbrandon> sure
<somerville32> imbrandon, poke
<imbrandon> somerville32, is this package in debian too ?
<somerville32> Not when I first packaged it in Feisty
<imbrandon> somerville32, i dident forget looking now
<imbrandon> somerville32, what about now ?
<somerville32> I'm not sure how to look
<imbrandon> http://packages.debian.org/catfish would be a first place to start
<imbrandon> ( i havent looked )
<somerville32> no results
<imbrandon> looks like it isnt, thats cool so the maintainer dosent need to be changed
<imbrandon> but i would sugest it, not a requirement though
 * imbrandon is still looking
<somerville32> Someone told me when I first packaged it that I should push it up to debian
<somerville32> I'm not sure how to do that either.
<imbrandon> yea i would sugest that
<imbrandon> ok it looks good, you want me to upload ? it dosent require 2 ack's since its only an update
<imbrandon> and i'll help you get a debian sponsor too if you wish
<imbrandon> debian sponsorship acts much like ubuntu sponsorship
<imbrandon> justa  few diffrent tools
<imbrandon> and it helps that there are willing DD's to upload in here at times
<imbrandon> azeem sometimes is willing to sponsor new packages to Debian, but i cant speak for him, you might poke him later
<imbrandon> somerville32, ^^
 * azeem is currently very busy with opensync stuff, sorry
 * cheatr is looking for help packaging a small perl script
<imbrandon> azeem, cool thanks, just the first person that came to mind :)
<somerville32> imbrandon, That would be awesome. Is it harder to get something uploaded in Debian?
<imbrandon> not really as long as its a quality package
<somerville32> And how would I continue to maintain the package? Would I have to get a sponsor each time?
<imbrandon> yes, often you can work with the same sponsor and build a relationship with them
<imbrandon> somerville32, have you ever seen mentors.debian.net ?
<somerville32> Nope.
<imbrandon> its kinda like REVU for debian
<imbrandon> take a look at it while i upload this
<crimsun> hmm.  Well, can't build the new ladspa module for pulseaudio.
<crimsun> silly main/universe split
<imbrandon> crimsun heh
<imbrandon> somerville32, catfish uploaded , please archive on REVU, it might take a while to build if the buildd's are still backed up
<imbrandon> somerville32, iirc http://mentors.debian.net will explain how to file a ITP and such after you have uploaded it there, it will give your perspective DD a good place to review it, SOMETIMES DD's will use REVU also and you can just point them there, but rember there will have to atleaste be a versioning change to upload to debian
<somerville32> imbrandon, I don't think I can archive on REVU.
<imbrandon> somerville32, you should be able to, on the main page list off to the right of the package
<imbrandon> should be under the "Actions" column , irrc anyone can archive uploads
<imbrandon> iirc*
<somerville32> The actions column is blank
<imbrandon> ahh ok, i'll do it for you then
<imbrandon> sorry about that
<somerville32> Thanks :]
<crimsun> hmm, pasuspender probably needs to remain in the main package.
<imbrandon> anyone got a merge they just dont feel like doing ? i'm outa merges
 * Nafallo looks
<crimsun> sure, there're alsa-*
 * crimsun cackles
<bddebian> heh
<crimsun> 'evening, barry
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<Nafallo> imbrandon: nope. irssi taken and gajim is mine :-P
<imbrandon> crimsun heheh
<imbrandon> RAOF, ping
<joejaxx> StevenK: are you steve kowalik?
<imbrandon> joejaxx, yes
<joejaxx> oh ok
<imbrandon> RAOF, are you actively working on the apt-proxy merge ? if not i'll grab that one real fast
<imbrandon> joejaxx, got me a ppc iso yet? heh
<imbrandon> with KDrive
<imbrandon> :P
<somerville32> How do I setup a pbuilder env to work with debian?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: no lol i have been doing uds stuff all week
<crimsun> somerville32: use a Debian release [name]? : )
<joejaxx> plus my laptop was out of commission
<imbrandon> somerville32, just subsitute hardy with sid when building it
<somerville32> What would be the sources.list?
<crimsun> I wouldn't even worry about that
<somerville32> Well, I have three environments setup
<somerville32> /var/cache/pbuilder/<distro>
<somerville32> And in it, I have apt.config which is the apt config files
<crimsun> i.e., cp /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh ~/pbuilder-sid && mkdir -p ~/pbuilder/result && ~/pbuilder-sid create
<imbrandon> yup as crimsun said ^^
<zul> hey
<crimsun> heya zul
 * Fujitsu awakes.
<imbrandon> wasup zul
<somerville32> E: Failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/sid/Release
<crimsun> hey Fujitsu
<white> Fujitsu: it's about time ;)
<white> even lazy students are already awake :)
<zul> not much just got home
<Fujitsu> white: Bah, I was up until past 4am.
<Fujitsu> (and had breakfast)
<white> oh breakfast ...
<imbrandon> somerville32, you need to change that to e.g. http://ftp.us.debian.org.debian sid main contrib non-free, or similar
<white> last time i had proper breakfast was at home home
<crimsun> hmm, that's definitely a bug
<somerville32> crimsun, What is?
<crimsun> oh, no it's not.
<crimsun> (I just read changelog.gz)
<imbrandon> i wish we had a ITP system, i'd really like ot know if someone intends on packaging awn before i upload it
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: needs-packaging bugs?
<crimsun> somerville32: the default archive is archive.ubuntu.com is pbuilderrc
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, on LP? people actualy use that ?
<crimsun> in pbuilderrc, even
 * somerville32 grumbles.
<imbrandon> whats our policy on syncing from mentors.d.n ?
<azeem> w35
<azeem> oops
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-03
<zul> imbrandon: just do it ;)
<imbrandon> azeem, :P
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I think the policy should be "don't". They're probably on mentors for a reason.
<crimsun> bah, mentors can't be any worse than apt-get.org
<bddebian> or REVU ;-)
<joejaxx> :)
<bddebian> I have a couple on mentors that I'll probably upload
<bddebian> Updates to pybliographer and valknut since the maintainers aren't responding :-(
<imbrandon> bddebian, yea i was just looking over awn on mentors, looks solid
<Fujitsu> crimsun: We fortunately don't do apt-get.org any more, do we?
<Fujitsu> We just have to live with the hundreds of packages we collected from there.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, on request we'll sycn from any apt repo iirc :P
<imbrandon> i dont think any are auto anymore though other than maybe debian-multimedia.org possibly
<Fujitsu> debian-multimedia isn't automatic.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: thankfully not.
<crimsun> although I haven't followed the getdeb thread(s) closely...
<Fujitsu> Only Debian main seems to be.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Yes! Let's sync from there.
<crimsun> mm horkage
<imbrandon> we cant , they dont use a repo, all http + apturl / gdebi :)
<imbrandon> ok let me put it this way ..... if i grab a package from mentors, look it over localy and am satisfied with it, upload it to REVU for a bit of peer revu does anyone see a problem with me uploading prior to debian ( with proper versioning so when it does hit debian its taken in etc )
<crimsun> wow, to achieve the things that Fedora 8 has done with PulseAudio, we'll have to revamp debian/*.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Why?
<imbrandon> i know thats not the NORMAL way but i dont want to wait on a long debian processes at this stage
<bddebian> sweet, get to work ;-P
<crimsun> imbrandon: personally, no, though the tension between waiting for the Debian upload so that you can sync and simply uploading to Ubuntu would be considered...
<crimsun> Fujitsu: quite a lot of the "nice" things (session management, stream control for devices, etc.) are spread across main and universe packages, and the build-dependencies themselves have the same issue
<imbrandon> hrm maybe i'll just get in contact with a DD and see how quickly i can get it pushed in
<bddebian> Yeah because Debian is a PITA in many cases :-(
<imbrandon> atleaste first
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Ah. Sounds like a mess.
<joejaxx> bddebian: when? :P
<crimsun> just a small, conquerable mess.
<white> imbrandon: apply for NM and become the "fast-sponsoring-DD" ;)
<white> imbrandon: or ask Fujitsu once he gets through :)
<imbrandon> white, or me :) lol
<joejaxx> imbrandon: you are DD? lol
<imbrandon> i have 2 and a backup i normaly chat up first, one is super busy atm i learned earlier, maybe i'll have some luck with the others :)
<imbrandon> joejaxx, someday
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> lol
<white> imbrandon: poke some in this channel, mainly siretart :)
<imbrandon> white, he's the backup :)
<white> hehe
<joejaxx> i always said i would probably get through the debian developer process than ubuntu motu
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> faster that is
<joejaxx> lol
<bddebian> That could only be if you WANTED to do that
<joejaxx> since the DD process is slower
<imbrandon> heh i doubt that, i became a MOTU + core-dev rather fast IMHO
<crimsun> I tend to agree with Colin (kamion) in that regard; it's likely more a "people" thing than a "project" thing.
<imbrandon> with reguard to DD's ?
<joejaxx> so atleast with DD i would know what to do in order to get it
<crimsun> well, the rate at which one becomes NM, DD, etc.
<joejaxx> motu seems to be quite different
<joejaxx> lol
<bddebian> crimsun: Where there's a whole lot of "people" in that "project" ;-)
<crimsun> it's pretty unfair to say that Ubuntu/Debian is faster than Debian/Ubuntu
<white> Fujitsu: what takes you so long btw?
<white> what about DM. This is almost in place
<Fujitsu> white: Erm, studying. I haven't done all of T&S, and really don't have the time at the moment.
<joejaxx> crimsun: i almost rather do the second
<Fujitsu> In a couple of weeks exams will be over, and I should be able to finish it quickly.
<white> Fujitsu: go offline and study, i told you ;)
<imbrandon> crimsun heh well yes it is quite unfair , but when you see NM on planet.d.o complaingin about getting approved and still waiting 2 years for accounts its kinda hard not to make that distinction in your mind
<crimsun> DM seems like a Really Good Thing.
<crimsun> err, I just thought of Baldur's Gate.
<bddebian> imbrandon: That sounds about right
<joejaxx> crimsun: haha :P
<imbrandon> hehe DM
<white> imbrandon: patience is a virtue ;)
<Fujitsu> I hate to think how long something like that would take for us to implement... it would mean a change in Soyuz, which could take years
<Fujitsu> And years.
<imbrandon> white, i have all the patients i need imho, but a process that takes 2 years imho is a tad long, hell i've only been arround ubuntu 2.75 years and only been a MOTU + core-dev for 1.5+
<imbrandon> or so ( without looking up dates )
<white> :)
<joejaxx> anyone know if Russell Coker was at uds
<joejaxx> ?
<joejaxx> if he was i missed a grand opportunity :\
<zul> porbably
<crimsun> I don't believe so, but I was only there one day
<bddebian> imbrandon: Well you might have found a sponsor by then..
<imbrandon> bddebian, hehe
<imbrandon> sponsorship i have no issues with NORMALY in debian, its the rest of the stuff
<white> imbrandon: you want to vote?
<imbrandon> white, on?
<white> oh don't tell me that you wanna read -private, it is not worth it
<white> imbrandon: you mentioned the "rest"
<imbrandon> white, nah, honestly the main reason i would become a DD would be 2 fold, access to porter machines and direct uploads, the politics dont intrest me much
<white> well it comes with it :)
<imbrandon> oh definately, just wouldent be a "reason"
<white> and the porter machine thing ... well
<bddebian> Yeah, don't you want to feel like you're better than everyone else?  That's a great motivator! :-)
<white> it can take quite some time, until a package is installed in a particular chroot, if you do not have the right uplink to DSA
<white> bddebian: unfortunately, people might start feeling that, when i look at some bug report communication :/
<bddebian> Or hang out on #d-d
<imbrandon> that and personaly it just feels right to contribute farther and farther upstream and almost every other project i'm involved with debian is the base , *Ubuntu , gnusolaris / indiana , Debian Live , pkg-kde etc
<imbrandon> white, ^
<joejaxx> bddebian: is that an open channel?
<bddebian> joejaxx: Depends on your definition I guess
<joejaxx> i remember i got flack for joining one of the debian channels
<bddebian> That's probably it :-)
<joejaxx> and they did not bother putting a passkey onit
<azeem> joejaxx: everybody can join there
<joejaxx> on it*
<imbrandon> joejaxx, its open as long as you dont interupt kinda like #u-d
<azeem> unless you're a DD or an NM, talking nonsense without a realname might not be tolerated
<joejaxx> imbrandon: nope i just joined
<white> debian-private is a closed channel, the rest should be open
<joejaxx> no interrupting or anything
<joejaxx> if you want a channel no public put a key on it
<joejaxx> lol
<azeem> joejaxx: maybe you tried here and not on oftc
<joejaxx> non-public*
<joejaxx> azeem: nope it was on oftc
<azeem> *shrug*
<joejaxx> i only join debian channels on iftc
<joejaxx> oftc*
<imbrandon> someone probably just had bad wheaties, because i'm not saying there arent DD's with a vendeta against Ubuntu but 99% i have talked to are normal humans too and even some do DD work on ubuntu
<imbrandon> :P
<joejaxx> :P
<crimsun> right, that's the "people" thing that Colin mentioned at fosscamp
<bddebian> I'm not bagging all DDs by any stretch.  We have several in Ubuntu
<azeem> I'm pretty sure nobody got kicked off #d-d just for being a ubuntu guy without saying anything
<imbrandon> just ike there are bad apples in ubuntu too, every community has their share
<white> "normal humans" rotl :)
<white> rotfl
<joejaxx> haha
<imbrandon> white, hahaha yea i laughed at that after i typed it
<imbrandon> you know my point though :)
<joejaxx> azeem: no i think it was an infrastructure channel or something
<white> :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: lol
<azeem> joejaxx: that's something else then
<imbrandon> reminds me i gues i took #ubuntu-debian / #debian-ubuntu from oftc off my autojoin , hrm
<bddebian> There is such a channel?
<imbrandon> bddebian, yea
<joejaxx> bddebian: i was just about to ask that
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> i forget what way arround it is, but yea
<Fujitsu> It's very small.
<bddebian> I'm so surprised ;-)
<imbrandon> ajmitch is there too iirc alot, its a small ~10 people group
 * joejaxx tries to join
 * bddebian is bitter atm :-(
<imbrandon> bddebian ?
<crimsun> too much Halloween candy, I think.
<imbrandon> bddebian, i got my NES controller to work on a PS/2 port last night, finaly i have a use for those arn things
<imbrandon> darn*
<imbrandon> crimsun hahaha
<bddebian> imbrandon: Nice.  No, just struggling getting things done over there.
<imbrandon> only problem is i mapped the [b] button to capslock, lol so when i'm done playing i have to check the state of my capslock key
<bddebian> Oh, I got Witcher today so I may disappear for any of Hardy ;-P
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> no NWN2 for you
<bddebian> Already have that, thought I want to get Mask of the Betrayer
<bddebian> -t
<imbrandon> having to use an old 200 mhz box stops most game playing cept for NES roms
<bddebian> yeah, that would do it.  I bought a whole new Dell XPS for NWN2 ;-)
<imbrandon> heh
<joejaxx> StevenK: are you going to do the flwm merge? :)
<imbrandon> i started testbuilding big apps on my webserver its gotten so slow
<imbrandon> lol
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> xen!
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> or some other virtualization platform
<imbrandon> joejaxx, hell my webserver is only a 1.5 ghz Via C7 :P
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> oh lol
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/phpsysinfo/
<imbrandon> not a workhorse by anymeans
<imbrandon> Processors  	1
<imbrandon> Model 	VIA Esther processor 1500MHz @
<imbrandon> CPU Speed 	1.5 GHz
<SWAT> how can I do something as root in debian/rules? I need to untar the linux-source and therefore I want to add a "cd /usr/src/ && sudo tar -xjf linux-source.tar.bz2" (yet I do not know the sudo password for a pbuilder chroot
<joejaxx> imbrandon: second hard drive a Seagate ?
<somerville32> My computer is a 333mhz
<Fujitsu> SWAT: Ewwww.
<imbrandon> joejaxx, yea
<joejaxx> SWAT: :\
<white> SWAT: you don't want that
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :D
<imbrandon> joejaxx, 500GB segate
<joejaxx> :D nice
<SWAT> ok, what _do_ I want?
<white> SWAT: you want to do stuff only in your source
 * Fujitsu notes that his trusty PIII 800MHz router doesn't like running lintian over everything all that much, but sorta copes.
<white> SWAT: you can depend on other packages or include the source
<crimsun> `cd /usr/src/ && sudo tar -xjf linux-source.tar.bz2` sounds ominous
<imbrandon> joejaxx, that 500GB is where my local mirror is ( among some ISO's and such )
<joejaxx> imbrandon: nice
<joejaxx> :)
<SWAT> little background: I want to create my own ALSA package, since I want to do this the 'nice' way, since I have sound-issues with the repo-ALSA. afaik, ALSA requires the source-tree
<crimsun> SWAT: err, /which/ ALSA package?
<crimsun> kernelspace [driver]?  userspace?
<SWAT> the driver should suffice. I just want to check if it's a downstream issue, or at least, what's going on.
<crimsun> gutsy already ships 1.0.15rc3 in linux-backports-modules-$(uname -r)
<imbrandon> SWAT, you might look into l-u-m and how it does it ( or l-b-m ) if your messing with kernel drivers
<imbrandon> yea
<Fujitsu> Is the driver in LUM yet?
<crimsun> snd-hda-intel is in lum for gutsy
<Fujitsu> If so, it should be easier and quicker.
<Fujitsu> I think I saw a spec about moving the whole lot over there.
<crimsun> for hardy, alsa-kernel is going into lum wholescale
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<crimsun> yeah, I spoke with Tim and Ben about it at UDS
<crimsun> SWAT: if you wish to track hg, you can look at the alsa-driver source package
<SWAT> I have heavy background noisy on my audigy2 and I tried all the tips of the ALSA people. I want to try if compile/installing ALSA from source will help, but ./configure&&make&&make install ALSA is a bit 'nasty' imho
<crimsun> SWAT: it's fairly straightforward to modify the generated alsa-source binary package to contain the current hg tip
<crimsun> you can then use alsa-source along with module-assistant to create a 'legit' alsa-drivers binary package
<SWAT> I've already taken a look at the source packages from the repo. I'll take a look at the hg tip then
<crimsun> you can't use the source package unmodified
<crimsun> you'll have to checkout hg tip, copy the bits into the source package, regenerate the source package, and build the new alsa-source
<crimsun> Does "background noise" refer to bus noise (presuming you mean a PCI version)?
<SWAT> I really can't use an unmodified source? I'm trying to see if it's a downstream issue
<crimsun> well, you have a choice if you want to do it the Debian/Ubuntu way
<SWAT> PCI, yes, onboard sound disabled, no interrupts, even changed the PCI slots etc. (I did my homework)
<crimsun> if you simply want hg tip, you don't need it
<somerville32> When I attempt to build catfish in sid pbuilder, I get:
<somerville32> Copying source file
<somerville32>     -> copying [catfish_0.3-1_source.changes]
<somerville32>     -> copying [./utils]
<somerville32> cp: cannot stat `./utils': No such file or directory
<crimsun> are you attempting to pbuild the .changes instead of the .dsc ?
<SWAT> ok, thanks for your tips. I'll enough to do tomorrow then
<somerville32> yes
<somerville32> lol
<crimsun> SWAT: also, check in your bios if you have pci masking options.
<crimsun> somerville32: that would do it.
<bddebian> heh
<white> does ubuntu only allow source only uploads or also source+binary uploads?
<bddebian> source only
<bddebian> As it should be ;-)
<imbrandon> yea source only , makes a cleaner archive imho
<SWAT> since I started trying to build 'nice' packages (very recently), I noticed how hard some packages are to create (from source, like ALSA, firebird etc.). I've gained a deep respect for the MOTU's (you are doing a great job)
<imbrandon> harder to bootstrap things, but thats only a corner case
<imbrandon> SWAT, heh thanks, you should try and join the ranks someday seems you have the drive to doso
<crimsun> (alsa's fun!)
<somerville32> :]
<crimsun> right, coffee shop's closing.  'night, folks.
<imbrandon> gnight crimsun
<somerville32> :(
<somerville32> Night
<bddebian> Gnight crimsun_
<bddebian> Doh
<SWAT> imbrandon, maybe, small steps for now. I will create some (private) packages from scratch first and then I'll look how that turns out.
<imbrandon> :P
<joejaxx> hello minghua
<minghua> Hi joejaxx.
<joejaxx> :)
<somerville32> Woot
<imbrandon> anyone here use epiphany ?
<somerville32> Do I need to subscribe to debian-mentors to send my RFS?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i do/used\ to
<SWAT> imbrandon, sometimes, why?
<joejaxx> on debian unstable
<imbrandon> how the hell can i stop it from keeping aq history in the addr bar
<imbrandon> i looked everywhere
<SWAT> I guess you've just found a new feature that you want
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> ugh
<somerville32> http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=catfish :)
<minghua> somerville32: No.  But please state you are not subscribed in the email if you aren't.
<somerville32> Oops. too late. :/
<somerville32> I misspelled the domain so I get a second chance.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I've used Epiphany forever... but aren't you a KDE person?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea, i'm just tinkering with some stuff
<imbrandon> sides i still use FF in KDE
<imbrandon> :P
<nxvl> hi
 * Fujitsu must try epiphany-webkit again soon.
<bmk789_> imbrandon: http://bmk789.blogspot.com/   i borrowed your title/subtitle if you dont mind :P
<imbrandon> bmk789 haha no i dont mind, i change them every few months
<joejaxx> imbrandontoo: lol
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<somerville32> You might just give a link to that long e-mail instead of reposting the entire thing.
<imbrandon> that might be a bit confusing
<imbrandon> imbrandontoo, ^^
<bmk789> good idea, ill make it link
<imbrandon> bmk789, actualy thats kinda a cool nick, i wish i would have registed it now LOL
<bmk789> lol
<imbrandon> bmk789, just do me a favor and dont try to impoersonate me , if it becomes a problem i might not be so happy bout it :P
<imbrandon> not that i think it wlll , just fyi
 * joejaxx did the flwm merge and needs to see if stevenk is going to do it
<bmk789> o no problem
<joejaxx> s/the/s/g
<joejaxx> skdflksdjflk
<joejaxx> s/the/a/g
<imbrandon> joejaxx, one word, PowerPC, kthxbi
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :P
<imbrandon> in all serousness , need a machine to build the iso on ? its not powerfull by anymeans ( 333 w/96 mb ram ) but it will work in a pinch
<joejaxx> nope :P bakery can build mutliarch :)
<imbrandon> i really really want KDrive for it though
<imbrandon> joejaxx, kk
<imbrandon> joejaxx, arent you working on getting kdrive bins in the archive ?
<Fujitsu> Morning, persia.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah i already have permission to fo it :)
<persia> Good morning Fujitsu
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i just have not had the time
<imbrandon> i have tried but the X packages are trickier than the kernel ones
<joejaxx> yeah
<imbrandon> joejaxx, if there is anything i can help with the kdrive stuff lemme know, i've been contemplating that for 2 releases now
<joejaxx> ok :)
<Fujitsu> What's so good about KDrive?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, it runs a full blown X server in under 700KB memory and no config files
<imbrandon> great for older systems
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<imbrandon> even conposit and such
<Fujitsu> I didn't realise it was *that* light.
<imbrandon> yea its TINY
<LaserJock> my microwave probably takes more than that ;-)
<imbrandon> heh
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ! :D
<joejaxx> LaserJock: how are you doing ? :D
<pochu> Nafallo: bug 159659. :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159659 in irssi "Merge with Debian unstable - new upstream release 0.8.12" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159659
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You seem to be here rather frequently nowadays.
<imbrandon> honestly i dont see why they dident use kdrive for bulletproof X
<imbrandon> but thats neither here nor there
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah
<joejaxx> that would be interesting
<Nafallo> pochu: what should I do with it? :-)
<pochu> Any core-dev for sponsoring that? bug 159659. It's an easy one!
<pochu> Nafallo: I'm afraid nothing, since you aren't a core-dev... are you?
<pochu> Just to let you know :)
<Nafallo> pochu: no, StevenK sponsored me :-)
<Nafallo> pochu: ah. cheers :-)
<pochu> StevenK: around? :)
<imbrandon> so you need a sponsor or not for irssi ?
 * Fujitsu wonders if he will be murdered for attempting to add a maintainer-is-not-quite-motu check to Lintian.
<imbrandon> i'll look if StevenK hasent already
<pochu> imbrandon: yes, I do :)
<kdubois> i need a sponsor!
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, hehe
<persia> Fujitsu: Just so it
<pochu> imbrandon: thanks. And he hasn't. I've reported the bug a minute ago :)
<jdong> Fujitsu: doesn't that go with the whole oh-god-jdong-touched-the-package check?
<joejaxx> jdong: ! :(
<imbrandon> pochu / Nafallo , ok i'll look at it now
<joejaxx> jdong: you disappointed us
<joejaxx> :(
<jdong> joejaxx: aaahhh
<Nafallo> imbrandon: cheers mate :-)
<jdong> joejaxx: sorry, it's been a hellish day
<persia> kdubois: Have you subscribed a sponsorship team to your patch?
<pochu> Thank you imbrandon.
<jdong> joejaxx: been sleeping for the whole day until now
<joejaxx> jdong: lol
<pochu> imbrandon: just fyi, I'm using it atm... works fine :)
<jdong> joejaxx: grossly underestimated how long a 5-page homework assignment should've taken
 * Nafallo looks at the diff as well fwiw
<joejaxx> jdong: oh wow
<kdubois> persia: no, i mean i'm just trying to get started with motu and such, and need general guidance. I can code or bughunt....
<persia> kdubois: Ah.  In that case, you don't need a sponsor yet, you just need some work :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: shhhh
<joejaxx> lol
<kdubois> persia: yeah, more or less. what should i do to get started? i'd like to start on a problem thats challenging enough, but easy enough for me to do....
<persia> kdubois: There are three kinds of work I usually recommend for new people: 1) Bug Triage, 2) Debugging Crashes, and 3) Fixing broken packaging.  Do any of those interest you?
<Nafallo> imbrandon, pochu: diff.gz looked fine to me.
<pochu> 02:23 [Freenode] Nafallo [n=nafallo@ubuntu/member/nafallo] requested CTCP VERSION from pochu:
<pochu> Nafallo: I said the truth! :-)
<imbrandon> Nafallo, yea here too, just doing a quick testbuild ( no offence ) and testing
<imbrandon> pochu, ^^
<imbrandon> then i'll upload it
<kdubois> debugging crashes sounds the best
<pochu> cool :)
<Nafallo> imbrandon: if you hadn't, you would've done wrong :-)
<persia> kdubois: OK.  We have a tool called apport that helps users to file bugs when something crashes.  These bugs usually have a stacktrace attached, to help dig through the code, and find the problem.
<Fujitsu> persia: They're also mostly private.
<kdubois> persia: where can i get these stack traces?
<persia> Fujitsu: Not all, and there's not a few people who can help make them public.
<persia> kdubois: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=apport-bug is a good list with which to start.  I recommend picking a package that you use, and starting with a universe package.
<persia> kdubois: Also, would you mind telling me how many bugs you see on that list?  It may be that making them non-private is something that more people need to do currently.
 * minghua didn't notice anyone working on making crash bugs public in the packages he's interested in.
<imbrandon> Nafallo / pochu, ok seems good to go, bug updated
 * Fujitsu used to go through recent ones and unprivatise them, but just hasn't had the time of late.
<kdubois> persia: i can see 504
<bddebian> Heya persia
<bddebian> persia: Are you on Debian devel games ML ?
<Nafallo> pochu: *hint* wait until it's built before you mail upstream :-)
<persia> kdubois: OK.  If you run out, complain in #ubutntu-bugs (or here), and we'll get you some more :)
<Nafallo> pochu: build and released actually ;-)
<pochu> Nafallo: I'll do. And I'll CC you too :-)
<Nafallo> pochu: cheers mate :-)
<persia> kdubois: Also, if you pick one, and need some help in the debugging process, please ask: I'm happy to provide a walkthrough.
<Nafallo> damnit!
<Nafallo> I'm getting all english quickly :-P
<pochu> persia: #ubutntu-bugs? :)
<persia> bddebian: One of them.  I need to sort my filtering system, and join the other.
<kdubois> persia: alright, will do. i think i'll start on one tomorrow.. If i were to find a bug in say, vlc or something, how do we get that fixed? do we talk to the vlc guys and have them fix it in their code base, or do we apply patches to whats in out repo's?
<imbrandon> kdubois, somethimes both :P
<persia> kdubois: Generally, I work through the stacktrace, and make a patch which fixes the problem, after testing.  It's nice to send the patch upstream to help everyone else.  It's also nice to package the patch for a new revision of the package, and seek sponsorship to get Ubuntu fixed sooner.
<imbrandon> ok i'm off for some beers with some friends, ttyl
<pochu> imbrandon: have fun, and thanks again :)
<joejaxx> superm1: :)
<superm1> hey joejaxx
<joejaxx> hello
<superm1> didn't see you down for free food and such?
<superm1> were you around?
<joejaxx> yes but only briefly at the beginning
<superm1> ah that would explain it
<joejaxx> yeah
<superm1> i didnt get as many people to sign my key as i should have while i was here :(
<joejaxx> i tend to have nothing to do at those sort of things :P
<superm1> oh well.
<joejaxx> well atleast you have some :)
<joejaxx> i have zero
<joejaxx> :)
<superm1> they weren't checking id's or anything..... so you could have joined :)
<joejaxx> superm1: i mean socially :P
<joejaxx> i only know a small amount of people in ubuntu
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> and none of them were there
<somerville32> lol
<joejaxx> and i rather not start a random conversation either lol it seems pointless and folly
<superm1> oh i ran into several random people that i met down there
<superm1> for a first time
<joejaxx> yeah i do not do well with randon encounters lol
<cyberix> Please rereview pq. Everything should be ok now. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<pochu> Good night motuland!
<white> i am curious, are there many cases, where there is an FTBFS in ubuntu?
<white> one argument for debian do disable source-only uploads was that people do not test the builds beforehand
<white> if that is true, it would of course put more workload on the buildd maintainer due to more bugs (or other people to fill FTBFS bugs)
<white> if not, source-only uploads would of course be nice to have
<Nafallo> script those bugs?
<bddebian> white: I would guess that there are fewer but we do have them unfortunately
<bddebian> Of course maybe they are all the syncs from Debian ;-P
<white> :)
<white> Nafallo: sure, but you want someone to investigate it and give some more information, then only a failed build log
<Nafallo> white: depends on what's wrong I guess.
<bddebian> OK damnit, UlstraStar-ng is finding boost/thread/thread.hpp but fails to find boost/ptr_container/ptr_map.hpp. The darn file is there, wtf?
<persia> white: One thing we're trying to organise for this cycle is to have LP provide a list of all current FTBFS packages, so that developers could look at the list, and fix a few.  Right now, we're a little blind as to what FTBFS today vs. what FTBFS at one point in the past.
<white> persia: is there a overview for build logs, like debian has linked form the PS site?
<bddebian> LP has them
<persia> white: There's http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+builds, and you can check logs by build status, but it's not quite there yet.
<Fujitsu> white: LP has every build log ever, linked from the package page.
<white> ah ok
<Fujitsu> ... except for if something is given-back, then the old log is erased.
<bddebian> Ah ha, libboost-dev build-deps are fsck'd
<Fujitsu> bddebian: As normal.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: I've never dealt with them before
<bddebian> Damnit, 1.1a patch for The Witcher is 113Mb :-(
<superm1> 113Mb???
<superm1> egads
<bddebian> s'ok, it's only about a 10min download :)
<bddebian> OMFG:  boost/program_options.hpp... no
<joejaxx> lol
<bddebian> boost/program_options.hpp...
 * bddebian smacks himself in the head with his laptop
<persia> bddebian: Be careful: you might hurt your laptop :P
<bddebian> Ouch :'-(
<bddebian> :-)
<joejaxx> :)
<bddebian> Uh oh, The Witcher starteth..
<joejaxx> bddebian: is that a good game
<joejaxx> ?
<bddebian> You have got to watch the trailer.  It is one of the coolest trailers for a video game I've ever seen
<pwnguin> psh
<pwnguin> i'll just wait for the Witchest
<joejaxx> pwnguin: lol
<bddebian> heh
<pwnguin> alternatively, im thinking I'll have to have someone REVU this package i've got
<pwnguin> cartoon nethack
<pwnguin> (remember egoboo?)
<bddebian> Damn, how many versions of nethack can there possibly be?
<pwnguin> ok
<pwnguin> cartoon diablo
<joejaxx> lolo
<persia> bddebian: Even nethack.org is a fork of a fork of a fork of a fork of a fork of a fork (if I remember correctly).
<pwnguin> http://youtube.com/watch?v=OxlEPsfrKJ8
<Burgundavia> pwnguin: egoboo has been resurrected
 * persia cheers
<pwnguin> Burgundavia: well, nobody's packaged this
<pwnguin> Burgundavia: understandably, because nobody's quite sure htf to build it
<bddebian> hehe
<Burgundavia> isn't soulfu non-free?
<pwnguin> theres an itp
<pwnguin> and the liscense claims GPL
<pwnguin> the data i donno about
<pwnguin> theres a sourceforge project
<Burgundavia> right, soulfu just became free
<Burgundavia> it didn't used to be
<pwnguin> well then
<pwnguin> huzza
<pwnguin> a bit CPU intensive
<bddebian> There's an ITP or RFP?
<pwnguin> itp
<bddebian> hmm
<pwnguin> its been like 60 days
<Fujitsu> A bit long.
<bddebian> I've got enough broken games in the games team svn to worry about for the moment :-(
<pwnguin> and the ITP is debain games
<bddebian> hah
<pwnguin> i didnt know a team could ITP without having someone in particular
<Burgundavia> team maintenance is a good thing
<pwnguin> sure
<bddebian> Somewhat
<bddebian> It carries it's own issue
<bddebian> +s
<pwnguin> as long as the team actually maintains it
<pwnguin> instead of assuming someone else will do the job
<bddebian> Hmm, I don't see it in our svn yet
 * persia votes for a bddebian-special package in SVN
<bddebian> hah
<pwnguin> Burgundavia: do you have an authorative source on the "becoming free" part?
<pwnguin> the source code appears GPL'd but im not sure about the data
<Burgundavia> the soulfu forums
<pwnguin> the source is a bit strange. i think soulfu.c #includes all the other code
<pwnguin> instead of the more usual linking .o files
<pwnguin> and apparently it used an odd libjpeg
<bddebian> I'll try to check it out if I get some time soon
 * bddebian wants to get updated scorched3d in
<persia> bddebian: Thank you :)
<bddebian> persia: Well don't thank me yet, I'm not having much luck getting a hold of people :-(
<LaserJock> dang it, PPA needs download statistics
<persia> LaserJock: Umm..  **Ubuntu archive systems** need download statistics
<LaserJock> pfft
<LaserJock> who cares about Ubuntu? I just want to know how many people have downloaded *my* packages ;-)
<bddebian> Shit, how do I overwrite my local svn crap with that from trunk?
<persia> LaserJock: My motivation is the same, but my dput configuration isn't :P
<persia> bddebian: svn revert
<bddebian> persia: even though I haven't committed?
<persia> bddebian: Yep.  If you don't pass a revision, svn revert defaults to the last checkout / update
<persia> bddebian: So, if you want a newer version to overwrite local changes, use `svn update .; svn revert path/to/badfile`
<bddebian> I can't just wipe the local files and svn update?
<persia> bddebian: wiping the local files is considered a change.  It's no different than editing them from a revision control perspective.
<bddebian> grr, OK, thx
<bddebian> Hmm, I thought rpath was a no-no ?
<persia> bddebian: It's not preferred, but there are lots of leftovers.  Making it work without is better.
<ScottK> bddebian: If you want to wipe it out, you need to wipe out the .svn dir in the parent directory and that can get all confusing.  Revert is better.
<persia> ScottK: At that point isn't it better to just `cd ..; rm -rf workspace; mkdir workspace; cd workspace; svn co svn://my.project.url/trunk` ?
<bddebian> persia: Aye it worked, thanks
<ScottK> persia: Pretty much.
<ScottK> persia: Except if you've got a checkout of the entire Debian Python Modules Team svn and you really don't want to do that one over....
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Is svn not smart enough to notice that if you delete a subdirectory (e.g. trunk/myproject/example), recreate it, and svn co .../trunk/myproject/example that it all belongs in the same place?
<ScottK> persia: IIRC the time I had to do that, I deleted the .svn for the parent and then did an svn add for it followed by rechecking out the module I'd borked.
 * persia decides that svn state management is sufficiently opaque that `svn revert` is always the right solution.
<manchicken> Anybody here do much work on nm-applet's openvpn interface?  It exists under universe/net
<jdong> Nafallo: siretart: any of you MOTU-media folk wanna talk syncing x264 from marillat? :)
<jdong> a LOT of really nice performance increases since our 6+month-old sync
<TheMuso_Boston> Ok folks. Unless I see you tomorrow some time, I'll see you online once I return to Australia.
<s1024kb> persia: Hi!
<persia> s1024kb: Good day
<s1024kb> persia: shall i say "Good morning" or "Good afternoon" to you?
<persia> s1024kb: Good afternoon: it's about an hour later here than there.
<s1024kb> persia: Oh, i see. :) I just upgraded my Ubuntu to 7.10 last night.
<persia> s1024kb: Great.  I hope it continues to work as well for you.
<s1024kb> persia: shall we developers keep our Ubuntu most updated to keep up with the pace of others?
<persia> s1024kb: Actually, I believe that having different developers on each supported release is best.  If no developer is running 6.06LTS, it becomes difficult to support it properly.  We need a mix of installations to best find and close all the bugs.
<s1024kb> persia: did you mean a mixed installation in the same computer? Can do?
<persia> s1024kb: Some people dual-boot.  I was more speaking of a mixed set of installations for all developers.
<s1024kb> persia: I understand.
<s1024kb> persia: so you have been a MOTU for a long time already?
<persia> s1024kb: Not really.  I only became MOTU about six months ago.  Previously I was a Contributor for a long time.
<s1024kb> persia: what a Contributor is doing? Can i be a Contributor too?
<pwnguin> contributers are people who do work but dont have upload privledges. instead an MOTU is supposed to review the work
<persia> s1024kb: Certainly.  Becoming a Contributor is easy: just start doing stuff :)
<s1024kb> pwnguin: ok, understand. so i should do something, and then hand them to one of the MOTUs to review them?
<pwnguin> basically, yea. there's some tools to make this easier, and a schedule that makes it more likely to get attention if you follow it
<s1024kb> persia: Still studying... wish that i can start earlier... all the books my teacher recommended me to read are almost finished... English is difficult to me.
<persia> s1024kb: Contributors usually start with small patches, but as skills develop can implement new features, handle library transitions, coordinate teams to accomplish goals, and even change how we do things (e.g. backports was started by a Contributor)
<s1024kb> pwnguin: thank you for explaining it to me.
<pwnguin> he
<pwnguin> s1024kb: pay attention to persia more. he knows more than I
<s1024kb> pwnguin: actually i take every contributor as my teacher, i hope to learn more from you.
<s1024kb> freeflying: hi! Nice to meet you here!
<s1024kb> persia: recently i am looking for a simple example to follow - i believe that when i can do a whole thing, no matter how simple it will be, i can understand more.
<freeflying> s1024kb: hi
<pwnguin> there is a package called hello-world
<pwnguin> the Ubuntu Packaging guide describes it in detail
<persia> s1024kb: Have you looked through https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<s1024kb> pwnguin: yes, i have it now. but i was stopped in the last steps... i don't know if i should create the 4 important files manually.
<pwnguin> s1024kb: which 4?
<s1024kb> pwnguin: for example, postinst and prerm
<pwnguin> they dont exist any more in hello, do they?
<s1024kb> persia: yes, i see a lot of bugs there, but don't know how to do... shall i download one of the packages, build and install it, run it, modified it and so on?
<persia> s1024kb: Yes, although first make sure that the bug is not already assigned, and assign yourself to the bug.  When you get a fix, prepare a patch, and submit a debdiff.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing has some further hints
<s1024kb> pwnguin: that's what confused me... so i can already build the package without making any change to it?
<pwnguin> s1024kb: look at the changelog for the finished package
<pwnguin> its no longer needed -- the documentation is just broke i think
 * persia points out that a documentation fix tends to be an easy patch to develop
<s1024kb> pwnguin: i will read the packing guide carefully again, hope to make a big step forward this weekend
<pwnguin> s1024kb: sure. once you feel comfortable with it, then start looking at the bitesize list persia mentioned. dont start with big stuff, cuz just going through the process itself is a bit of work to learn
<s1024kb> pwnguin: okay, thanks. sometimes i found that i am using a mind of a Windows user to understand Linux... yesterday i modified so packages of Delphi in Windows, i wish that was the same concept of our bug fixing here in Ubuntu.
<pwnguin> im not familiar with delpha
<pwnguin> delphi
<pwnguin> so packages == translation?
<s1024kb> pwnguin: yes. sorry, i meant some packages
<persia> s1024kb: Perhaps it is, but you'll do better to explain the specific modification methods, so we can share thoughts on possible differences.
<s1024kb> pwnguin: some of our colleagues need to use some controls, they are in the packages, but no longer work in Delphi 2007. I modified them, repacked them and install them again.
<pwnguin> s1024kb: same thing happens here
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<pwnguin> but its helpful to know how a package is constructed first
<pwnguin> the difference is that instead of modifying a binary (repacked?) you can modify the source
<pwnguin> but since Univese will be given to lots of people, some peer review and quality control is a good idea
<s1024kb> i had been developing Delphi components (VCL) in the past, so i quite understand how to make a VCL package. Yesterday when i was modifying the package, i thought - will it be the same in Ubuntu?
<pwnguin> very similar
<pwnguin> you grab the source package, modify it, build and test it, then push the source package back out to the community
<s1024kb> pwnguin: now i understand more after learning for you and persia. I am happy that i understand a little bit more today.
<pwnguin> the open source community tends to communicate these sorts of changes in patches (diffs)
<s1024kb> thank you my friends. gotta go now because i must switch back to WinXP for my works... sigh... thank you very much and bye.
<s1024kb> persia: hi, i am here again, from Windows (though i don't want to...)
<s1024kb> pwnguin: hello again...
<pwnguin> hi
<s1024kb> pwnguin:i am happy to see you again...
<s1024kb> pwnguin: now i am using Xchat.
<pwnguin> neat
<s1024kb> pwnguin: are you a programmer too?
<pwnguin> yes
<pwnguin> but not delphi
<s1024kb> pwnguin: c++? a Linux programmer?
<pwnguin> c/c++, java, whatevre. linux, embedded systems mostly
<s1024kb> :-) embedded systems is interesting. I write single chip programmes too.
<s1024kb> pwnguin: i guess that most of the contributors are programmers?
<pwnguin> mostly. though i hear a few core developers can't code
<s1024kb> pwnguin: Oh my God, hard to believe it. But how they work as core developers?
<persia> s1024kb: They are very active in documentation, image improvements, packing adjustments, etc.
<s1024kb> persia: haha, so i feel kind of eased now... i understand that many people are experienced in programming, i am not very top actually
<pwnguin> no worries. many people feel MOTU is a place where people can learn through doing.
<pwnguin> i'd personally hope that core developers would be... more capable, as we already have Membership for non development
<s1024kb> pwnguin: the first time i joined MOTU i was kind of nervous...
<pwnguin> i dont think that phrase means what you think it does
<pwnguin> "joined MOTU"
<s1024kb> pwnguin: actually i have only one goal in my life - to become a top Linux programmer
<pwnguin> you need two goals then
<s1024kb> which 2?
<pwnguin> 1) to become a top linux programmer
<pwnguin> 2) some other personal goal
<s1024kb> pwnguin: personal goal... i had never thought of it. living a normal life as others is okay to me
<pwnguin> s1024kb: i mostly mean software
<s1024kb> pwnguin: ... still don't understand...
<pwnguin> as in, you can be a great linux programmer, but its very hard to do so without proper motivation
<s1024kb> pwnguin: Oh i see now. the motivation is - i love Ubuntu, i guess, at least at the moment
<pwnguin> there's spectators, who wish to be great, and then theres people with specific goals that require them to be experts
<pwnguin> for example, you need working laptop suspend
<pwnguin> linus torvalds didn't set out to be the world's greatest linux programmer ;)
<s1024kb> pwnguin: i wish that i can change my job next year once i learn Linux better, i wish to work under the Linux OS in my next job, not being a Win programmer here like now
<persia> s1024kb: That's an achievable goal.  I'd recommend building a portfolio of work you've done to improve some specific aspect of linux, and look for a job doing the thing you've already been doing.
<s1024kb> pwnguin: maybe i am superficial...
<pwnguin> s1024kb: i dont think so. you just need to find a focus. what's wrong with linux today?
<s1024kb> pwnguin: :-) a focus...
<pwnguin> well, perhaps you'll find some motivation by spending time with MOTU ;)
<s1024kb> persia: i guess that a person should stick to what he/she wants to do... so i decide to do the things i love, so that i can concentrate to my goal.
<persia> s1024kb: Exactly.
<s1024kb> pwnguin: Yes, :-)
<s1024kb> persia: yesterday i had browsed the job market from the internet, i found some jobs here in my city are about Linux programming... just as what i want. Hope to hop soon...
<pwnguin> where do you live?
<s1024kb> Guangzhou, China
<pwnguin> interesting
<s1024kb> and you?
<pwnguin> manhattan kansas
<pwnguin> USA
<s1024kb> persia: and you? where do you live?
<persia> Tokyo
<pwnguin> orly
<s1024kb> but here we seem to be together in the same city... thanks for the internet to bring us together
 * pwnguin tasks persia with finding Kenta Cho and forcing him to accept patches upstream ;)
<s1024kb> pwnguin: haha
<persia> pwnguin: Actually, he lives in the same town as I ("Tokyo" maps well to "State" for the US).  What do we need from him?
<pwnguin> well, nothing really
 * persia allows Cho-san to relax and develop more fun games while bored
<pwnguin> he's stated that he has no interest in maintaining the games hes released, and the internet has basically routed around that already
<s1024kb> haha my friends, happy to have you all here...
<pwnguin> tokyo isn't a state :P
<pwnguin> anymore than LA is a state
<s1024kb> i guess that most of you are boys? i am not... haha
<persia> pwnguin: No, it's a "prefecture", consisting of about 23 "wards", 15 "cities", and a few "villages" (for approximate translations)
<pwnguin> i'd imagine metropolean area is also suitable
<persia> pwnguin: Well, LA doesn't have an independent government that is only answerable to the federal government: you've skipped sacramento.  There is a "Toyko Metropolitan District" within Tokyo that more closely maps to LA.
<persia> ("Tokyo Metropolitan District" includes all the "wards", but none of the "cities" or "villages")
<persia> pwnguin: It is perhaps confusing: to map to LA again, it is as if "Baldwin Park" was in "California" county, in the state of "California"
<pwnguin> politics is wierd
<freeflying> s1024kb: you mean you are a girl :P
<pwnguin> im not about to call NYC a state even though it rivals the budget of one
<s1024kb> freeflying: haha, that's why i was kind of nervous... i was afraid that i could not do as good as what the boys are doing...
<pwnguin> heh
<persia> pwnguin: Well, no, but that's actually a little closer, in that "New York" state belongs to "New York" city, and the Burough Mayors have significant powers.  On the other hand, in Tokyo, the "state" capitol is in the "City" capitol, and there's not really a "mayor" of the metropolitan district: that is directly adminitered by the prefecture (whereas outlying cities do have "mayor"s).
<pwnguin> you'd have a harder time on IRC convincing people you were female than intelligent, I think
<freeflying> s1024kb: why not
<s1024kb> freeflying: ... because i am really not very good at programming, i am a normal programmer in a normal company - though i thought that i am almost the best here in my department...
<minghua> Wow, a Chinese lady in this channel.  Welcome s1024kb.
<s1024kb> minghua: thanks. nice to meet you.
<s1024kb> minghua: your name seems to be a Chinese name?
<freeflying> s1024kb: you got it :)
<pwnguin> s1024kb: the best way to learn is to read what other people have done, and discover what they did wrong. MOTU definately comes aross what other people did, and did wrongly ^_^
<minghua> s1024kb: Yes, I'm a Chinese.  Althoug I'm living in US now.
<s1024kb> ^_^ i feel here a warm world... i like it.
<s1024kb> i feel kind of guilty these days because i had spent a very long time to understand only a little bit thing, and the other problems is my current situation does not allow me to make faster progress...
<DarkMageZ> hey, if i want to get a package into multiverse how do i go about it? the ubuntu wiki page says revu is for universe. so i presume that means no multiverse packages there?
<Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Processes for multiverse and largely identical to those for universe.
<Fujitsu> Including REVU.
<DarkMageZ> ok, but should i upload my package for multiverse to revu? or is there another place for multiverse packages?
<persia> DarkMageZ: The same place, but there'll be lots of pressure to get it free unless there is a well documented use case that requires it.
<DarkMageZ> persia, it's opensource. but debian decided to strip it out case it doesn't meet their dfsg. the legal restriction on it iirc is no commerical use.
<persia> DarkMageZ: OK.  You've passed the basic legal test.  Now, why should it be included?  Is there not a better free solution?
<DarkMageZ> persia, it's a music visualization. the "better free alternative" is debateable :)
<persia> DarkMageZ: That makes it tricky.  It might get in, but it's not likely to get the attention that something for universe would.
<DarkMageZ> wait, correction. "intended only for non-profit and hobbyist use and explicit permission to use it otherwise is required"
<minghua> Is "non-commercial" okay for multiverse?
<persia> DarkMageZ: Part of why I warn you is that I don't want to see another case of one of your patches getting delayed forever: you are skilled at what you do, but seem to have poor luck with policies and guidelines :)
<pwnguin> hmm, i think thats too restrictive even for ubuntu...
<minghua> Hmm, I suppose it is, as we don't ship multiverse.
<minghua> It's perhaps a harder case for restricted, though.
<persia> minghua: Multiverse doesn't ship on DVD, and there are existing examples, but the greater plan is for multiverse to go away
<pwnguin> noncommercial licenses to the code i can understand
<pwnguin> but to the binaries?
<pwnguin> persia: is multiverse dissapering before or after world domination?
<persia> pwnguin: It'd be extra hard to ship restricted-source multiverse, even with free binaries.
<persia> pwnguin: Not relevant.  Debian has world domination as a goal (IIRC), whereas Ubuntu just ships software.
<pwnguin> im just saying, where in the grand scheme of things is this plan to remove multiverse?
<minghua> persia: Right.  I thought whether we ship it or not is important, too.
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: When we no longer need non-free software, presumably.
<persia> pwnguin: It's more of a loose goal.  When there are no use cases that require multiverse, life gets easier for MOTU
<pwnguin> Fujitsu: ah, so world domination
<pwnguin> persia: until a use case pops up again that does require multiverse ...
<persia> pwnguin: Maybe.  I suspect if we ever purge multiverse, we'll not take it on again lightly.  "Edge Case"
<Fujitsu> There are also uses for multiverse that aren't just about non-freeness - parts of mplayer are likely patent-encumbered, so need to be in multiverse.
<Fujitsu> (or we could rip out mencoder and MPEG4 support like Debian did, but people would murder us quickly)
<pwnguin> psh
<pwnguin> mp4 playback is in gst
<pwnguin> or is it just encoding that patented?
<persia> Fujitsu: That's just time for now.  In the future, it may be that this a sufficiency of good codecs that "I want to play videos" isn't as likely to require multiverse/restricted
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: Good question.
<pwnguin> hmm. surely theres a place to find a list of all packages in multiverse
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: You can look through pool/multiverse on a mirror, or... look through a Packages file, probably.
<Fujitsu> Or maybe something on packages.ubuntu.com
<Fujitsu> But not LP.
<persia> pwnguin: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/multiverse/source/Sources.gz
<pwnguin> angband
<pwnguin> some of this i dont see getting fixed in my lifetime
<persia> pwnguin: Well, it's a goal.  It might take a while :)
<pwnguin> i mean, MAME is comparable in scope to the linux kernel
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<minghua> persia: Depends how long "a while" is, I suppose.
 * minghua is pessimistic.
<persia> minghua: Depends?  How?  While "a while" is completely unbounded, I'm not sure that it affects either the goal, or the ease of adding to the burden.
<minghua> And hello ajmitch and Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hiya minghua, persia
<persia> Good afternoon Hobbsee
 * Hobbsee wonders what this discussion is on
<minghua> persia: What I meant to say is, it's going to take much more than "a while" IMHO.  More than my lifetime, for example.
<persia> Hobbsee: multiverse
<persia> minghua: Nah.  Your lifetime is insignificant compared to the span of time that may be encompassed by "a while".
<Hobbsee> persia: ahhh
<DarkMageZ> anyone up for doing a revu? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=505 (not related to my multiverse question)
<persia> DarkMageZ: Sure.
<minghua> persia: See?  That's why I say it depends.  I happen to think my lifespan is longer than a while.  I'm not really into buddhism.
<white> well everyone has goals, at the end of my life, i might see the full release of hurd :)
<persia> minghua: Ah.  nomenclature by philosophy.  Not a distinction worth arguing: I believe it's not more than a dozen years until everything there is obsolete, considered an "edge case", or has become cruft from bitrot.
<minghua> Gah.  I need my dictionary again.
<pwnguin> xmame isnt going to dissappear
<pwnguin> nothing even comes close to duplicating what it does
<pwnguin> its already like 10 years old
<persia> white: I recently has the opportunity to hear RMS speak about that: apparently there's not currently even a goal to release
<DarkMageZ> pwnguin, the scope of the project will expand to cover the ps3 tho :P
<pwnguin> na
<pwnguin> its not arcade hardware
<pwnguin> yet
<DarkMageZ> true
<white> persia: it would surpise me ;)
<warp10> Hi all!
<persia> pwnguin: Sure, there's no replacement currently.  On the other hand, someone may write a free mutiple architecture emulator that can handle all those architectures, and has sufficient free content that it no longer matters.
<pwnguin> persia: its free enough for almost everyone
<persia> pwnguin: I forget the MAME problem.  Wasn't it a lack of free ROMs?
<pwnguin> no
<minghua> persia: Right, no point arguing about terminology.  Maybe a dozen years is a good estimate.  Anyway, I'd better not waste your time that you could use to review REVU packages. :-)
<pwnguin> noncommercial
<pwnguin> and some other semi goofy restrictions
<pwnguin> like
<pwnguin> "you must distribute docs"
<minghua> i.e., invariant sections?
<pwnguin> its in the license
<persia> pwnguin: Ah.  licensing.  I still suspect one could implement alternate hardware emulators using a e.g. qemu framework, if one wanted.  This would be handy for those wanting to sell a kit-box to turn any computer into an arcade console.
<pwnguin> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/non-free/x/xmame/xmame_0.106-2/xmame-common.copyright
<pwnguin>    - Every X-Mame executable distribution MUST include AT LEAST the doc
<pwnguin>    directory, with special mention to readme.txt file ( this file )
<persia> pwnguin: "Usage of the _information_ contained in the source code is free for any    use".  Just needs someone with an itch.
<pwnguin> a massive itch
<pwnguin> its 12 megs of compressed source
<pwnguin> i gather much of it is historical in nature, but due to the distributed copyright, would be nearly impossible to negotiate
<persia> DarkMageZ: lintian and linda are full of complaints.  Do you need hints for each one?
<DarkMageZ> persia, the lintian complains are invalid. but i noticed the linda ones and having a look @ fixing them.
<Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: why are they invalid?
<persia> DarkMageZ: "changelog-should-mention-nmu" and "source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number" are both valid.  Perhaps you wanted to use -0ubuntu1 or set the maintainer Debian-style?
<persia> Fujitsu: lintian still doesn't know about hardy :(
<Fujitsu> persia: I've got a merge waiting in the u-m-s queue.
<Fujitsu> (with that change)
 * persia thinks we should patch the hardy lintian with the name of the next release as soon as it's decided
<Fujitsu> That would be a good idea.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: bug #?
<persia> Fujitsu: Was that the only change, or did you also do the spellcheck MOTU change?
<DarkMageZ> persia, k. i'll turn this package debian style so lintian won't cry.
 * persia thanks Hobbsee for dilligence and attention
<Fujitsu> persia: I added original-maintainer to the list of valid fields, but other than that, no.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's a good one.
<Hobbsee> it's useful, being able to upload to main :P
<Hobbsee> persia: are you interested in adminship of the sponsorship queue, btw?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yeah, I'll have a number for you in a sec
<Fujitsu> Bug #158667
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158667 in lintian "Please merge lintian (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158667
<persia> Hobbsee: I'd need someone to do it as a team (or rather, a backup for the next time I disappear for six weeks).  For the next couple months, I can take it, but will need help.
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, it would be team based.
 * Hobbsee is going to send a mail to the MOTU ML about it
<persia> Hobbsee: In that case, sure.  I'm happy to help with that.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu:
<Hobbsee> + Your version string suggests this package is for Ubuntu, so your
<Hobbsee> + distribution should be one of hardy, gutsy, feisty, edgy, dapper, breezy,
<Hobbsee> + hoary or warty.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: surely not breezy, hoary, warty
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: They're still valid distributions.
<Fujitsu> We should probably cull them at some point, though.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they dont even exist anymore, do they?
<Hobbsee> i thought launchpad culled them.
<Fujitsu> I guess we can kill of unsupported ones.
<persia> DarkMageZ: 1) it FTBFS for me, and 2) If you make it Debian-style, lintian won't complain, but it can't be uploaded from REVU.
<LaserJock> hmm, so I was last to touch lintian
<Fujitsu> Brb.
<DarkMageZ> persia, build error?
<persia> DarkMageZ: configure: error: cannot run /bin/bash ./config.sub
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: apart form that, looks fine.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Caused by the lack of a Build-Depends on autotools-dev
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: you're wanting to go for MOTU, arent you... :)
<Hobbsee> s/:)/?/
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, nope. it'd use my powers for evil went i get annoyed.
<DarkMageZ> when*
<Hobbsee> ah
<Hobbsee> oh, must have been another d<name>
<persia> DarkMageZ: On the other hand, your contributions are valued: please keep them up (and apologies it often takes us so long to commit them)
<persia> Hobbsee: DktrKranz?
<Hobbsee> yeah, him
 * Fujitsu returns.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: So, do I want to remove those three?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i think so
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's not a valid distribution anymore - and for building locally, you'd probably ignore lintian warnings anyway
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yep, fixing now.
<Fujitsu> Hmm... We still have some package in the archive that will have old changelog entries like that.
<Fujitsu> *packages
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: the packages themselves? oh sure.
<persia> Fujitsu: We should really bump them.  There's no guarantee that we can build them in that state.  I'd like to get warnings.
<Fujitsu> persia: True.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: my point is that the *latest* one going in should definetly not be an unsupported version
<persia> Hobbsee: That's important because of the automated lintian against everything in the archive that Fujitsu is running
<Hobbsee> persia: uh?  piuparts?
<Hobbsee> persia: we know the stuff still builds, even if it hasnt had a recompile since hoary.
<persia> Hobbsee: We have lintian on everything updating two or three times a week.  We don't have a piuparts solution.  I'm tempted to go with what we have.
<Hobbsee> allthough, there's no guarentee that the binaries are building with the latest packages, this is true
<Hobbsee> persia: we will get piuparts, RSN>
 * Hobbsee is reasonably sure of this.
<persia> Hobbsee: That's not at all true.  I've fixed a fair number of FTBFS stuff that still builds in Dapper, but not for Feisty / Gutsy
<Fujitsu> LPRSN, or something else?
<persia> Hobbsee: Good luck.  I'm behind you all the way :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: do you know who liw is?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: True, true.
<Fujitsu> (ie. yes)
<Hobbsee> persia: weird.  i thought that it all got built for the  most recent version.
<Hobbsee> in piuparts
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: seeing as he's now an employee, id' expect him to start running it off people.u.c automatically.  if not, request it.
<persia> Hobbsee: Umm.  "All got build in piuparts" or "all got built" and the other was a different context?
<Hobbsee> persia: ah right
 * Hobbsee is tired.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: piuparts doesn't take a trivial amount of CPU time to run. You need quite some hardware to do it.
<Hobbsee> fricking nutty customers.
<RAOF> imbrandon: No, I'm nat actively working on apt-proxy.  Go for your life.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: and there are lots of machiens in the DC.  but true.
<persia> Hobbsee: I'm less sure that p.u.c has the resources to run against all of universe on a regular basis.  Maybe we'll get lucky.
<Fujitsu> So, after this argument, am I dropping them or not?
<Hobbsee> persia: rookery?  no.  but other machiens there, that arent connected to the outside world - pitti will probably do that for us
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i would.
<persia> Fujitsu: Please drop them.  I'd prefer to see the warnings, and think that means we should bump with a -build1, if nothing else, just to check.
<persia> Hobbsee: OK.  Good luck (somehow this reminds me of a similar discussion in May).
<Hobbsee> persia: true
<Hobbsee> persia: it hasn't gotten off the ground yet - some stuff's changed since then.
<persia> Hobbsee: I know, and am very much encouraged.  I believe there's a good chance it will happen this time.  I'm just going to keep trying to organise a backup, just in case.
<DarkMageZ> persia, k. i've done some fixing, but i've got 2 new lintian warnings that i don't know how to fix :( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=506
<Hobbsee> persia: good idea.
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: likely means that you're still not build-dep'ing on autotools-dev
<persia> DarkMageZ: OK.  Ignore the first one: Fujitsu is adjusting the patch, and it should go away soon.  Items 2 & 3 mean you need to copy config.sub and config.guess from the autotools-dev package into the source directory before configure::
<persia> (e.g. in makebuilddir::)
<Hobbsee> persia: ew.
<Hobbsee> persia: you mean people actually do that?
<persia> Hobbsee: ew?  Why?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: New debdiff attached.
<Hobbsee> how architecture-specific is autohell config files?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Not at all.
<Hobbsee> ah, OK
<Fujitsu> You often need the newer ones to support other archs properly, in fact.
<persia> Hobbsee: Not at all.  They encode information about all the architectures to support portability.
<Hobbsee> persia: ahhh.
<persia> (That's why lintian complains when they are out of date)
 * Hobbsee wonders what they do contain, and ponders going and looking for one
<persia> Hobbsee: Bascially, there are two current practices.  Either copy the files at packaging time, or copy the files at build time.  I like build time because it means that a give-back can help.  Other people like packaging time because it means that it's less likely to FTBFS if it builds locally.
 * persia further notes that copying hint files at build time is *very* different than running autogen at build time
<Hobbsee> persia: *nod*
 * Hobbsee tends to just run autohell during build.
<Hobbsee> and ditch debian's buildprep patches.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: please give me a patch that actually applies.
<persia> Hobbsee: You don't want to run autogen during build because then your configuration flags are dependent on the versions of the libraries installed at build time, which, due to apt's support for alternate build depends (|), means that it's deuced difficult to expect a rebuild to produce a similar package.
<Hobbsee> persia: *nods*
<Hobbsee> persia: how does one end up running autogen?
<Hobbsee> or does autogen run when
<persia> Hobbsee: One runs it manually at packaging-time
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: WFM
<Hobbsee> --------------------------
<Hobbsee> |diff -Nru /tmp/WFlb6bAD3d/lintian-1.23.36/checks/common_data.pm /tmp/tn6lKYl8oD/lintian-1.23.36ubuntu1/checks/common_data.pm
<Hobbsee> |--- /tmp/WFlb6bAD3d/lintian-1.23.36/checks/common_data.pm      2007-10-15 09:15:44.000000000 +1000
<Hobbsee> |+++ /tmp/tn6lKYl8oD/lintian-1.23.36ubuntu1/checks/common_data.pm       2007-11-03 18:29:51.000000000 +1100
<Hobbsee> --------------------------
<Hobbsee> File to patch:
<persia> (Only do this if it's really out of date, or you need to alter things significantly, or it FTBFS locally)
<Hobbsee> persia: ah right.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Are you applying it over the top of the old one?
<Hobbsee> so i havent inadvertantly done it without knowing :)
<persia> Hobbsee: -p4?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Right, that would do it.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: someon
<persia> Hobbsee: If you ran autogen by accident, the package has other issues :)
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah well :)
<DarkMageZ> persia, this should be good. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=507 lintian only cries about hardy and linda is quiet.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Um?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: erm.  hwo were you intending me to run it then, if not over the original source?
<persia> DarkMageZ: Did you run linda and lintian also against the binaries that result when you build it?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I was intending it to be over the original source.
<persia> Fujitsu: A merge against the Debian source?  Or against the last Ubuntu source?
<Fujitsu> persia: Debian.
<Hobbsee> oh, duh.
<Hobbsee> whoops
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You were applying it over the already applied one?
 * persia reminds Hobbsee to use -v(last Ubuntu revision)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i was applying it to the ubuntu one, yeah.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's what I was checking with `Are you applying it over the top of the old one?', but it was rather ambiguous.
 * Hobbsee uses grabmerge, then.
<DarkMageZ> persia, run against the produced .deb ? what type of things does it check for with the binary?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah.  i had no idea what you meant about that
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Sorry.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no problem.
<persia> DarkMageZ: I usually run against _arch.changes, which iterates over each of the .deb files.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Similar to the source checks, there are binary checks for a number of things.
<DarkMageZ> persia, all good. cept the hardy issue.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Great.  I'll take a closer look at 507 then.
 * persia wishes the output wasn't in ALL CAPS
<DarkMageZ> output of?
<persia> DarkMageZ: sbuid
<persia> s/id/ild/
<persia> DarkMageZ: linda tells me you aren't shipping the upstream changelog.  You might need to set a config variable
<persia> DarkMageZ: Any particular reason to use debhelper 4 instead of debhelper 5?  That might be the cause of my last comment
<DarkMageZ> persia, that's greater than or = to. to stop linda from crying. it should be using whatever the current version for your distro is
<persia> DarkMageZ: Right, but you've specified 4 in debian/compat.
<persia> As a result, debhelper does everything in compatibility mode, and doesn't expose the new features.
<DarkMageZ> persia, k. i'll bump that. but i don't get that warning here :(
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: which version are you running?
<persia> DarkMageZ: The "no upstream copyright file" warning?  debian/compat is just my eyes, not automated.
 * persia uses the linda and lintian flags shown on https://wiki,ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
 * Fujitsu would like to see a space between `debhelper' and the versioning, but that's just nitpicking.
<persia> DarkMageZ: I'm not that familiar with libvisual-plugins.  Are there also plugins not contained in either libvisual-plugins-goom2k4 and libvisual-plugins?
<persia> s/and/or/
<DarkMageZ> persia, official libv-p-0.4 ships what ubuntu's libv-p-0.4 + g-force. there's also goom2k4 which is what this is which was accidentially not included in official 0.4. there's also projectm and maybe others i have not found.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: uploaded, thanks
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Hmm..  I'm almost more tempted to get goom2k4 as a patch to libvisual-plugins, rather than looking at an entirely new package.  What is your opinion?
<Fujitsu> (I didn't think it was broken - the patch applied, built, and ran over universe and multiverse)
<persia> heh
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i dont know why i thought that the p<#>'s go backwards
<DarkMageZ> persia, i'm not bothered either way. ubuntu's choice.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Well, I'd argue it's in large part your choice, as you're the primary Ubuntu contributor for libvisual-plugins.  Do you want to maintain a huge patch which can be dropped for the next upstream, or maintain two packages, and merge them later?
 * Hobbsee could have sworn that used to be in main.
<DarkMageZ> persia, i'll build a giant patch. gimme a few minutes
<persia> DarkMageZ: Thanks.  I think that makes it easier, especially for the archive admins :)
<persia> DarkMageZ: And, as before, I'll suggest you might want to ping David about it, but the package is so different at this point that it's not nearly as important.
<DarkMageZ> persia, david doesn't appear to be interested. if i tried any harder to get any sort of responce from him he'd probably file for an avo. lol
<persia> heh
<persia> DarkMageZ: If you7re up for it, and want to also close Debian Bug#431915, I suspect someone would be happy.
<persia> Err.  Not actually close the bug, but provide a fix in Ubuntu so that it doesn't apply here.
 * persia misses ubotu http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=431915
<ubotu> Debian bug 431915 in libvisual-plugins "Please add projectM to package" [Important,Open]
<Fujitsu> debian bug #431915
<Fujitsu> I think it needs a space.
<persia> Perhaps, but it's not talking to you either.  I think it's started a URL-only diet
<DarkMageZ> persia, fix already mostly provided. i personally would not be up for merging it into libvisual-plugins. too painful. good case for separate package
<Fujitsu> I think it was probably because you'd said it so quickly before.
<Fujitsu> debian bug #431915
<ubotu> Debian bug 431915 in libvisual-plugins "Please add projectM to package" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/431915
<Fujitsu> There we go.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Ah.  I see you're already completely on top of it: I should read the bug logs :)
<DarkMageZ> persia, apachelogger uploaded projectm to revu. i'm hoping he fixes his issue with 1.01 so he'll bump his revu packages to the current version.
<DarkMageZ> cause 1.01 works fine here.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Cool.  It sounds like that will be all sorted for hardy then :)
<Repsa_Jih> could anyone review my package on REVU?
<persia> Repsa_Jih: Which package, what URL, how many advocates do you have, and did you fix everything from the last comment?
<Repsa_Jih> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=annchienta
<Repsa_Jih> I need a first review so I can start fixing
<persia> DarkMageZ: I'm archiving the  libvisual-plugins-goom2k4 REVU entry based on this discussion.
<persia> Repsa_Jih: On that page, there is a bunch of output from lintian and linda.  You'll want to try to fix those first, before asking for a manual review.  If you have any questions, please ask them here.
<Repsa_Jih> Kk
<persia> Does anyone have an opinion about item #2 in http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/annchienta-0711012110/annchienta-1.0/debian/copyright ?  Does that make it non-free?
<persia> (or does it require special handling?)
<persia> Repsa_Jih: Also, You'll want to make this not a native package, so that it can be included in lots of distributions, rather than just Ubuntu.
<Repsa_Jih> Ok
<persia> Repsa_Jih: Just idly, as my request above doesn't seem to be attracting attention, would http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License not meet your license goals?
 * Fujitsu returns from dinner and looks at debian/copyright.
<Fujitsu> persia: Sounds like Mozilla's trademark stuff?
<Fujitsu> Also like ion3.
<Fujitsu> ie. multiverse.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.
<Repsa_Jih> It's the zlib/libpng license, actually
<persia> Repsa_Jih: Based on that, I'd encourage you to consider altering the license.  We're more than happy to match upstream, as it makes life easier from a distribution point of view, but multiverse = purgatory in many ways.
<Fujitsu> So it is.
<persia> Oh.  I remember something about the zlib license...
<Fujitsu> I'm really not sure why that's OK.
<Repsa_Jih> http://www.opensource.org/licenses/zlib-license.php
<persia> Fujitsu: I think it's based on the argument that adding -N marks it as unofficlal somehow.
<Fujitsu> persia: It mentions that the modified source versions, not binaries.
<persia> Ah.  Cool.  My apologies.  That's all good.
<Fujitsu> Erk, changed what I was saying half-way through.
<persia> Repsa_Jih: Other than the example files, including your full name, making it non-native, the other other thing I see offhand is extra commented-out stuff in debian/rules.  Nice work.
<Repsa_Jih> What should I comment out?
<Repsa_Jih> And should I add an url to the zlib license to make it more clear?
<persia> Repsa_Jih: It's not that you should comment out more, it's that lots of commented commands make it harder to read.
<persia> Regarding copyright, I don't think you need to include the URL.  The archive admins are much more familiar with the definition of free vs. non-free than most MOTUs: you should be safe.
<Repsa_Jih> Oh I see
<s1024kb> persia: Hey, i had recorded all those things you guys had just chatted and will read them later at home as a lecture... haha
 * persia uninstalls liquidwar in the hopes this will increase the upload count
<persia> s1024kb: That's a good way to learn about packaging.  We encourage questions in this channel, and the answers are usually applicable to other packages as well.
<s1024kb> :-). By the way, it's your holiday today and you don't need to work in the office?
<DarkMageZ> persia, how should i handle this? open a new bug and attach debdiff? email you a copy of the debdiff?
<persia> DarkMageZ: Open a bug, attach a debdiff, subscribe the sponsors.  I promise it won't take three months this time :)
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, hey. about bug #59534 ? why did you change it to won't fix without an explaination in the bug report?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 59534 in libvisual "Libvisual autoinstall by demand" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59534
<persia> DarkMageZ: The big issue is that libvisual is in main, whereas libvisual-plugins is in universe.  Main shouldn't depend or recommend universe
<DarkMageZ> yup i know. but he didn't explain this in the bug report when he killed it off and didn't reply to a request in the bug report on why he did it.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Yeah, well, not everything gets documented as well as it might.  Are you looking to do another sweep of bugs as well as adding the new plugin?
<DarkMageZ> persia, i'm not aware of any other bugs atm. so it'll just be tweaks in the debian folder and the new visualization.
<persia> Even better :)
<DarkMageZ> persia, i can drop the sizes of my changes by about 600KB if someone fixed bug #152528
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152528 in xmms-goom "needs to be split into multiple packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152528
<persia> DarkMageZ: That's fair game if you want to try it.
<DarkMageZ> i had a shot at it, i managed to expose the development sections, but i couldn't do it without breaking the splitting of the package. lack of skill on my part.
<persia> DarkMageZ: You might try uploading a work-in-progress to some net-accessible location, and asking someone to take a look :)
<persia> I'm looking a codeine for bug #159338, and I'd like some advice re: binary dependencies.  Currently codeine gets the libxine dependency from ${shlibs:Depends}.  Does this get automatically overridden if I add "libxine1-x | libxine1 (<< 1.1.8-2)" manually?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159338 in xfmedia "Re: Heads-up: small xine-lib transition in hardy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159338
<Fujitsu> persia: No. You'll get a duplicate dependency, which lintian will complain about.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's what I thought.  Any suggestions?
<Fujitsu> persia: Have you had a look at how the other package(s) do it?
 * persia investigates xfmedia
<persia> Fujitsu: The only package marked "Fixed" isn't.
<persia> Err...  Nevermind.  "Needs Building".  I may be inaccurate...
<persia> Nope.  I was right the first time.  There is currently no example of a correct solution uploaded.
<Fujitsu> persia: Not even siretart's?
<persia> Fujitsu: Which package?  It doesn't show on the bug task page.
<Fujitsu> klear.
 * persia wonders why there is no assignment: doesn't LP do that automatically?
<Fujitsu> persia: No, changelog-closes-bugs only sets the status
<Fujitsu> Changing assignee is a bit risky. as multiple people may have collaborated on an upload, etc.
<persia> Right.  Claims are web or email based then, I suppose.  Not a bad model.
<persia> Fujitsu: Not even klear.
<persia> Alternately, perhaps the duplicate dependencies are intentional.  Must depend on the library, and also either a front-end-support module or a version of the library before the package split.  I think I'll go with duplicate depends.
<Fujitsu> I guess there's probably no other way around it at the moment.
<geser> persia: have you the Depends line for klear at hand?
<Fujitsu> They can be removed for Hardy+1.
<persia> geser: results of a local build: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43101/
<persia> Fujitsu: rather, next LTS, no?
<persia> OK.  I haven't done a KDE package in a while.  kde-config isn't in my path, but I don't find a kdebase-devel package in my hardy chroot (although I'm told that is what I need to install)
<Fujitsu> persia: Aren't the duplicate dependencies only for upgrades, or did I miss something?
<Fujitsu> I must admit that I didn't read it thoroughly.
<warp10> I've found a bug reported months ago, status "new". The bug has been fixed in Gutsy. What's the most appropriate status? Fix-released??
<persia> Fujitsu: libxine1 (>= 1.1.4), ... , libxine1-x | libxine1 (<< 1.1.8-2) (or were you asking a different question?)
<persia> warp10: I think so, but you'll get a better answer in #ubuntu-bugs
<warp10> persia: good suggestion... thank you! :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Won't that old version of libxine1 only be in Gutsy and lower?
<persia> Fujitsu: Right, but Debian bug #448077 tells the story of a user who didn't have the frontend module installed (pushing the transition plan)
<ubotu> Debian bug 448077 in xine-ui "please depend on libxine1-x" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/448077
<persia> Ah.  Nevermind.  I'm not reading you well.  Yes, this would normally only be adding a dependency on the frontend module, but the | supports upgrades and backports.
<Fujitsu> So there's no reason we can't drop the second libxine1 versioned dep in Hardy+1 or so?
<Fujitsu> I really don't see the point of it.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah, because all Hardy users will already have it.  Right.
<geser> if the app links directly against libxine1 it should be mentioned in Depends even if libxine-x depends on libxine
 * persia is confused about the difference between supporting things since the last LTS and supporting things until the next LTS.  Dropping all the Dapper/Gutsy transition bits for Hardy+1 makes sense.
<Repsa_Jih> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=annchienta I think the latest lintian error shouldn't be there
<Repsa_Jih> I'm pretty sure it's done correctly, the changelogs are identical
<persia> geser: Right.  The objective was to not have two dependencies on libxine (both versioned), just to make lintian a little more quiet.  It appears we need it in these cases.
<persia> Repsa_Jih: That error is because you're generating a native Debian package.  You'll want to 1) separate your debian/ directory into your diff.gz, and 2) use an -0ubuntu1 version number.
<Repsa_Jih> How would I go about the first one?
<persia> From the package directory, `mv debian ../annchienta-debian; cd ,,; tar czf annchienta-1.0.tar.gz annchienta-1.0; mv annchienta-1.0.tar.gz annchienta-1.9.orig.tar.gz; mv annchienta-debian annchienta-1.0/debian; cd annchienta-1.0; sed -i s/1\.0/1.0-0ubuntu1/ debian/changelog; debuild -S`
<persia> Umm.  Except you really always want 1.0, and never 1.9 :)
<Repsa_Jih> k
<persia> Err... And probably want to use debuild -S -sa
<persia> And more generally, don't want to run random shell fragments from IRC
<Repsa_Jih> I was checking it :)
<Repsa_Jih> Your version string suggests this package is for Ubuntu, so your distribution should be one of gutsy, feisty, edgy, dapper, breezy, hoary or warty.
<Repsa_Jih> How should I fix that, then?
<persia> Repsa_Jih: Don't worry about that one.  That's a lintian bug.  The patch was applied a few hours back, so it won't get distributed for a couple days.
<Repsa_Jih> kk
<Fujitsu> Do we normally backport lintian?
<persia> Fujitsu: Only in that we usually have a special backport of lintian and linda for REVU.
<persia> Well, perhaps not "usually", but at least for Gutsy.  I wasn't doing much reviewing during Feisty.
<fosstux> Hi! What do I have to do so that a program is included in the repository?
<Repsa_Jih> Which program?
<fosstux> Detox (http://detox.sourceforge.net/)
<persia> fosstux: It needs to be packaged by someone, submitted to developer review, and submitted for archive admin review, in that order.
<pyc> hi, how do i package a shared object file?
<pyc> i mean an individual .so file
<persia> pyc: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<pyc> ok
<fosstux> ok. I haveinstalled it using checkinstall...
<Repsa_Jih> Allright, is this correct now? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=annchienta
<persia> pyc: And you can't :)  You need to do the source package, and then the library and development packages are built from that.
<pyc> oh :(
<persia> fosstux: The current release of checkinstall has some issues that mean the packages cannot be accepted easily.  Sorry about that: it will need to be repackaged.
<fosstux> ok.
<Hobbsee> uh, what?
<Hobbsee> since when did we accept packages when they'd been touched with checkinstall anyway?
<Hobbsee> checkinstall was best when it kept segfaulting on attempting to start ti.
 * Fujitsu liked those days.
<persia> Hobbsee: I haven't know checkinstall to be free of the dependcy issues, etc. since Ubuntu began.
<Fujitsu> But then some people got annoyed when we just laughed, IIRC.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, indeed!
<Hobbsee> persia: as in, for it itself installing, or for it building other things?
<Hobbsee> persia: i think it's built using the wrnog approaches, so...
<persia> Hobbsee: I'm not a fan (although I've patched a couple things in it), but I'm not sure there isn't value in automating some of the packaging process.
<Hobbsee> cdbs ftw!
<Hobbsee> dh_make doesnt do too bad a job, actually
 * persia disagrees with dh_make about many things, and doesn't like the example files.
 * Fujitsu writes everything by hand.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's wise.  It is, after all, only three files.
<Hobbsee> persia: true, the example files arent terribly useful
<persia> Hobbsee: And the default rules isn't lintian clean, and generates big ugly diff.gz files, even when someone adds a patch system (at least for C/C++ packages)
<Hobbsee> urgh
 * Hobbsee doesnt do new packaging, didnt you know?
<persia> Hobbsee: Neither do I, but I often find myself trying to sort of a mess when someone uses dh_make, and isn't careful (and not only REVU)
 * Repsa_Jih wonders if this is packaged correctly now: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=annchienta
<persia> Hobbsee: For a true horror story, ask DarkMageZ and RAOF about trying to get aotoconf working for libvisual-plugins without having conflicting patches in the diff.gz and debian/patches
<DarkMageZ> i've got better horror stories, that was fairly light stuff
<DarkMageZ> in comparison
<persia> Repsa_Jih: Someone will look at it as soon as they have time.  If you ask too often (we request less than once a day), you'll get put on a lower priority list.  If nobody else does, I'll look at it in about 20 minutes.
<Repsa_Jih> Oh, I'm sorry.
<persia> DarkMageZ: heh, but were they related to dh_make?
<Repsa_Jih> I didn't know that
<persia> Repsa_Jih: No worries.  You're new here.  Nobody gets swatted without a warning :)
<Repsa_Jih> K :)
<Hobbsee> persia: yummy.
<DarkMageZ> persia, ah. i hasn't read that part.
<fosstux> where can I find a ubuntu Tutorial how to build a dab?
<fosstux> deb... ofcourse
<persia> fosstux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<DarkMageZ> persia, hehe. one of my favorite horror stories comes from checkinstall.
<fosstux> thx
<persia> DarkMageZ: Yep.  That's why it's not currently accepted for new packaging.
<Kmos> !packaging
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<Kmos> :)
<persia> Kmos: Thanks for pointing that out.
<persia> ubotu: packaging is The packaging guide is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<Kmos> persia: shouldn't fix the first link to the new in the wiki ?
<pochu> bluekuja: ping? I'm merging rtorrent from Debian, and I'm wondering whether we still want to apply the port-range patch. Bug #110803. Since upstream thinks it's better a default starting from 6890...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110803 in rtorrent "The default for port_range should be "6881-6999", not "6890-6999"" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110803
<bluekuja> pochu, let me see
<pochu> bluekuja: wait!
<pochu> ../src/command_network.cc:  ADD_VARIABLE_STRING("port_range", "6881-6999");
<pochu> bluekuja: so it looks like it's been changed upstream :)
<bluekuja> ^^
<bluekuja> seems so :)
<pochu> I'll remove the patch then. Thanks!
<bluekuja> np, is it the only Ubuntu change?
<pochu> bluekuja: yeah, we can sync again! :-)
 * pochu tests it and requests a sync
 * persia wishes *all* torrent applications had configurable port ranges, rather than hard-coded port ranges
<bluekuja> pochu, great, let me know when you've opened a sync bug
<pochu> persia: that's the default :)
<pochu> bluekuja: would you mind sponsoring an upload for me? bug 159700
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159700 in tasks "Merge tasks 0.12-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159700
<persia> pochu: Goody!.  I haven't looked in a while, but I remember patching python-source in /usr/share for original bittorrent.
<bluekuja> pochu, yep, let me look at it
<pochu> bluekuja: and bug 159695 needs a confirmation, if you have some time :-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159695 in anjuta "Please sync anjuta (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159695
<pochu> bluekuja: ty
<bluekuja> pochu, added to TODO as well ;)
<pochu> cool :)
<bluekuja> pochu, would you mind adding a debdiff to tasks merge?
<bluekuja> I don't like reviewing merges that way
<pochu> bluekuja: sure, from Debian or from old Ubuntu?
<pochu> Or from both? :)
<bluekuja> pochu, between new Ubuntu revision and the new debian one
<bluekuja> where new Ubuntu is your one
<bluekuja> of course
<bluekuja> pochu, like every normal merge
<bluekuja> (or is it your first one?)
<pochu> bluekuja: no, but I haven't done any since Gutsy ;)
 * pochu adds it.
<bluekuja> ty
 * persia thinks pochu predates workflow, but tends to focus on only a few packages, and so has been lucky with sponsoring
<pochu> persia: I do, but I want to change that (focus on the entire universe ;) )
<bluekuja> pochu, plus when asking for a sync, would be nice to have latest unstable changelog's entry as well
<bluekuja> so I don't have to check it myself
<persia> pochu: That's a big goal, but you're more than welcome :)
<pochu> bluekuja: ah, right :|
<bluekuja> pochu, also I would like to see a build log there
<bluekuja> writing "build fine"
<pochu> bluekuja: I have it, gimme a sec.
<bluekuja> k, fine
 * persia notes that more than just the latest, but all Debian changelog entries since the last Ubuntu pull is nice
<bluekuja> persia, true
<bluekuja> pochu, all debian entries since latest ubuntu
<bluekuja> even better
<bluekuja> ;)
<pochu> bluekuja: tasks debdiff attached.
<bluekuja> pochu, let me check it
<persia> Repsa_Jih: annchienta (510) FTBFS for me.
<bluekuja> pochu, dont need to add the lp bug again
<bluekuja> pochu, in the new entry
<pochu> bluekuja: it's for future reference. but since it isn't 'LP: ', but 'Launchpad', it won't re-close it ;)
<bluekuja> yeah, ok then
<knights> In what package can I find the dpms dev headers?
<jpatrick> persia: just to be sure, for the new xine, we change the build dep to libxine-dev (>= 1.0.2) ?
<persia> knights: Maybe libxcb-dpms0-dev, but I've not checked
<knights> persia: Unfortunately I've already tried that- no look
<knights> luck, even
<persia> jpatrick: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43107/ is my debdiff - sample minimal adjustment for the transition
<persia> jpatrick: Well, you might get lucky, and not need Maintainer mangling, but aside from that :)
<jpatrick> persia: just the dep on libxine1-x | libxine1 (<< 1.1.8-2) - got it
<persia> jpatrick: Remember to use libxine1-console for non-x apps
<jpatrick> persia: I'm doing the KDE ones :)
<persia> jpatrick: Excellent.  I'll do the rest of universe, and we'll be in good shape :)
<persia> Of course, as this is a Malone-managed transition, anyone else is welcome to join: just assign yourself a task (although it's lots easier if you can upload)
 * jpatrick was unlucky and got a messy merge
<bluekuja> pochu, looks fine
 * persia has been sniping those that aren't merge candidates :)
<jpatrick> yay, conflicts everywhere
<persia> 0.6.4-4+b1 means binary NMU, right?
<geser> persia: yes
<persia> geser: Thanks.
<geser> jpatrick: depending on the size of the Ubuntu delta, it might be easier to apply the Ubuntu changes by hand on the recent Debian package
<geser> (resolving conflicts in configure is no fun)
 * persia always does that: patchutils can help
<jpatrick> geser: no worries, everythings fine
<jpatrick> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43109/ - does anyone know what that _P=)'s for?
<persia> jpatrick: It's because sed is silly about close parens.
<jpatrick> persia: ah, right, thanks, just making sure
<pochu> bluekuja: bug 159695 updated :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159695 in anjuta "Please sync anjuta (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159695
<bluekuja> pochu, tasks uploaded.
<bluekuja> pochu, you should fix the bug title
<bluekuja> pochu, to merge package-version from debian unstable
<bluekuja> pochu, plus a build log is missing
<bluekuja> :)
<pochu> I've just attached it ;)
<bluekuja> (refreshing)
<bluekuja> huge build log^^
<jpatrick> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43110/ - which is the prefered format?
<persia> jpatrick: I prefer the second set without reference, but generally prefer the Debian solution, unless there is a good reason otherwise, as it makes merging easier next time.
<pochu> bluekuja: just got port 6888 in rtorrent 0.7.8, so we can safely remove the patch :)
<persia> jpatrick: More generally, one doesn't want to have to update the package to build into debian/packagename/foo
 * pochu request a sync
<jpatrick> right, now to find a core-dev
<bluekuja> pochu, yep
<pochu> bluekuja: thanks for the upload.
<bluekuja> pochu, np
<pochu> bluekuja: bug 149190
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149190 in rtorrent "Please sync rtorrent 0.7.8-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149190
<pochu> Hope it's fine :)
 * persia encourages pochu to take advantage of the fine sponsors queue
<pochu> persia: it's because he included the patch I've dropped :) But yes, I should use it more (not that I don't use it, but not always...).
<persia> pochu: Right.  That's why it's encouragement.  You get by, and generally don't bother anyone, but you could probably benefit from the queue as well (and would certainly have more people seeing your work, which could help in any future application)
<Jazzva> Hmm... I'm confused. I'm looking at one package, that needs to be merged or synced. One of the files is marked with .UBUNTU and .DEBIAN, so there should be some changes. But the diff says they're the same. So, that should be just a bug in automatic checking?
<persia> Jazzva: it's not likely a bug, either you're missing something, or the change is invisible (non-printable characters, whitespace alterations, etc.)
<Jazzva> persia: Ok... I'll take a look at permissions or something like that :)... Thanks
<Jazzva> Well, the permissions, size and timestamps are the same for both files :/.
<bluekuja> pochu, is it written somewhere in upstream website?
<persia> Jazzva: I'd argue for invisible then.  diff might help you track down which line number, and with the right arguments produce something small enough to pipe into od
<pochu> bluekuja: not that I know, and I can't find anything about it.
<bluekuja> pochu, that's why I asked
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> pochu, but anyway we have   ADD_VARIABLE_STRING("port_range", "6881-6999");
<bluekuja> that confirms that
<bluekuja> pochu, the patch shouldnt apply anymore as well then
<pochu> bluekuja: it doesn't. And I got a 6888 port with the random port enabled.
<knights> I'm just editing my debian/control file for my 1st ever deb but I think I've messed the formatting ie the leave a space at the start of each line of the package description
<knights> howshould I edit this file?
<knights> or is there a script that will format it for me?
<Jazzva> persia: Hmm, the diff -s explicitly says they are the same, the file identifies them as ASCII PO text. I think that the same char encoding is used...
<persia> Jazzva: Odd.  Are you using MoM or DaD?  Which file?
<knights> When I say 'how should I edit' I mean should I be editing it in 'so many columns' mode or something?
<knights> with a specific text editor maybe?
<Jazzva> persia: MoM, package xsane. Files are backend-po/newbackend.po.{DEBIAN,UBUNTU}
<bluekuja> pochu, true, also I see inside /src/core/manager.cc
<bluekuja> that the line reported in the bug is no more there
<bluekuja> and now we have a variable for it...maybe the moved everything to the other file you linked me before
<bluekuja> pochu, let me test if it works here as well and I ack your request
<knights> Can anyone help me edit me control file please?
<Jazzva> persia: I also think that the same will be with the rest of the files in backend-po marked with C* in report.
<pochu> knights: every line in description should start with a space.
<persia> knights: Generally, I use vi.  If it's broken in some way, and you need another eye, a pastebin might help.  As far as I know, there is no lint like tool.
<knights> persia: Yes but don't I need to enforce so-many column and some kind of wrapping as I don't know whee to insert the new lines in the description- that'd be the only way I could add a space at the start of each line
<knights> If I just open vi in a terminal it could be of any column size
<Jazzva> persia: Just checked the rest with file and diff. file reports they all the pairs are the same file type. diff reports that every pair is identical.
<persia> Jazzva: That's just odd.  The timestamps match as well.  I think it's the wrong time of day, but I suspect a bug report may help (and I don't know where it gets filed)
<knights> I'd like to do it in gedit, kate or a gui text ed pref.
<persia> knights: Yes, you need to enforce it, and yes, vi is flexible, but you can also find your position on each line, and manually split the lines (you should be able to do this in any text editor)
<knights> persia: and that splitting position number is?
<knights> column 80?
<Jazzva> persia: Wrong time of day? For example one is 9am, and the other 9pm?
<persia> knights: It should be less than 80 columns.  If a couple lines are exactly 80, nothing will complain, but I usually shoot for 76 or so, so that diffs and diffs of diffs are also within 80.
<knights> right! Thanks
<persia> (diffs of diffs of diffs should be avoided, if at all possible)
<Jazzva> knights: Also, check if the text editor made backup files (they end in ~), gedit does that by default. Don't forget to clean them up (I do *sigh)...
<Hobbsee> right.  MOTU ML emailed.
<zul> who is doing what now?
<persia> zul: You can have it all, if you want :)
<zul> i already have it all
<Jazzva> persia: I looked at DaD, those files aren't reported with C*, so I suppose it's a bug in MoM...
<persia> Jazzva: Perhaps.  Hard to say.  I'd definitely report it as a bug in MoM, as it should be looked at, but I can't say if it's MoM, or something MoM is using to do the work.
 * cyberix will change his strategy
<cyberix> Please surf http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq to see that there is nothing to complain about the package, and move on to sponsoring it. Lets make the World a better palace!
<pochu> imbrandon: irssi is taken a while... is it normal?
<pochu> s/taken/taking/
<Fujitsu> pochu: Taking a while?
<Jazzva> persia: well, I suppose it's the latter.
<persia> cyberix: Better strategy.  Things to include in the request: whether the new upload fixes previous comments, and whether you are seeking the first or second advocate.
<Jazzva> persia: I'll file a bug... just to find the appropriate project. If I don't, should I file a bug in Ubuntu (as the last resort)?
<pochu> Fujitsu: it hasn't been announced, isn't in the archive, isn't in the new queue...
<Hobbsee> pochu: did it actually get sponosred?
<pochu> Hobbsee: imbrandon told me he uploaded it.
<cyberix> persia: It fixes the pervious requests and some other issues too.
<cyberix> persia: I'm looking for the first advocate.
<Hobbsee> pochu: ah
<Fujitsu> pochu: It hasn't been uploaded.
<Fujitsu> Or it was uploaded incorrectly and rejected due to lack of signage or so.
<persia> cyberix: OK.  Did you already run linda and lintian against the binary packages?
<pochu> Ok, thanks. Maybe he meant he added it to his todo or something :)
<pochu> Or it was rejected, yup.
<Fujitsu> pochu: What's the bug #?
<Hobbsee> why was it rejected?
<pochu> Ouch! s/gutsy/hardy/ !
<pochu> :-)
<Hobbsee> just upgrade to hardy.  problem solved.
<Fujitsu> pochu: That's what I was going to check.
<Nafallo> hehe. easy enough to miss :-)
<Hobbsee> pochu: ah well, fix it, and point me at a bug #
<Fujitsu> That's probably the most common and easiest to miss.
<pochu> Hobbsee: or rather bind dch to dch --release=hardy :)
<Hobbsee> pochu: that would work
<Hobbsee> unless doing backports
<pochu> Hobbsee: bug 159659
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159659 in irssi "Merge with Debian unstable - new upstream release 0.8.12" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159659
<pochu> I've updated the package in that link.
<persia> pochu: lately, I've been maintaining a hardy chroot for development work, with a bind-mount of /home.  That way I get the hardy dev tools and still have a gutsy workstation.
<geser> I've install the devscripts from hardy on my gutsy, I just now need to add hardy to the vim syntax hilighting
<cyberix> persia: Yes.
<persia> cyberix: OK.  I'll take a look then.
<cyberix> persia: And got rid of all complaints
<persia> cyberix: Even better :)
<joejaxx> :)
<LucidFox> could anyone review a REVU package?
<Fujitsu> jpatrick: You might want to merge the jpatrick-kubuntu account on LP with your normal one.
<jpatrick> Fujitsu: I'm trying but my @kubuntu.org and sysadmin hasn't got round to fixing it
<jpatrick> *.org is bust
<Fujitsu> jpatrick: Ah.
<joejaxx> Good Mrning MOTU
<joejaxx> Morning*
<Fujitsu> You could probably poke ~admins into merging them manually.
<persia> LucidFox: You'll want to add a fair bit more to the request
<LucidFox> if that means the link... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=qconf
<joejaxx> is there an reason mom would produce a confluct and the part that conflicts is exactly the same?
<persia> LucidFox: Link, and status, but link is a good start :)
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: We had a case of that just before...
<LucidFox> status: new
<persia> joejaxx: jazza encountered the same issue a little while back.  MoM is perhaps confused, and needs a poke.
<Fujitsu> Keeeeeeeybuk!
<knights> For /debian/manpages, do I just have a list of the man files with their relative paths, one per line?
<jpatrick> Fujitsu: hmm, but how?
<joejaxx> persia: oho k because the kazehakase merge i was looking at was like that
<Repsa_Jih> I have another question, how do reviewers build packages from sources? Because I got a FTBFS for my package, but it builds fine on my machine.
<joejaxx> i actually need to see who did it last so i can ask them if i can do it
<Repsa_Jih> And I want to reproduce the error.
<Fujitsu> jpatrick: File a support request at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad, requesting the accounts be merged. It should be fairly clear you own both, I think.
<knights> Hi JoeJaxx!
<knights> Any news on fluxbuntu?
<jpatrick> Fujitsu: ok, I'll do that later, but now -> lunch
<joejaxx> knights: hello :) how do i know you? :)
<joejaxx> knights: oh
<joejaxx> lool
<persia> Repsa_Jih: I used `sbuild -A -d hardy annchienta_1.0-0ubuntu1.dsc` to build that (or rather, to FTBFS)
<joejaxx> knights: yes i am going to build when i get back home
<Repsa_Jih> Ok
<joejaxx> knights: :)
<knights> joejaxx: I e-mailed you recently about the PPC version and the PC RC not booting for me
<joejaxx> knights: oh ok, do  you have a date for that?
<knights> I expect it will be FAST tho :)
<joejaxx> for that email that is :)
<knights> yeah, hold on
<joejaxx> persia: oh ok i was just wondering if there was something different that had to be done when that happens
<joejaxx> persia: because it was exactly the same
<persia> joejaxx: Do your best to confirm the files are really the same, and then use the Debian version?
<knights> joejaxx: 31st Oct, allcoms at gmail
<joejaxx> persia: ok
<joejaxx> knights: ok i will take a look for that email
<persia> cyberix: I get lintian and linda output on the binaries with the flags in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<persia> cyberix: Most importantly, /usr/games/pq is not executable, so it doesn't run :(
<knights> OK, so my man files are in <progname>/man, so in <progname>/debian/manfiles I put stuff like
<knights> ./man/manfile.1
<knights> or do I need to put the full path?
<knights> sorry ../man/manfile.1
<persia> knights: You probably want "man/manfile.N", without the leading "./"
<knights> Thanks persia!
<bluekuja> pochu, I'm getting only high port numbers for now
<bluekuja> pochu, using randomly port chooser
<SWAT> is Medibuntu legitimate? (or is it something like Automatix?)
<elkbuntu> it's not official, no
<bluekuja> pochu, [Port: 6882]
<bluekuja> pochu, got fixed then...acking your request
<SWAT> elkbuntu, hmmm, ok, thanks.
<pochu> bluekuja: cheers
<SWAT> in that case, it's strange it's promoted on the restricted formats page (due to libdvdcss) etc.  I can imagine that a lot of new users will use it
<Hobbsee> pochu: done
<pochu> Thanks :)
<cyberix> persia: Interresting. Will examine.
<rexbron> Does anyone know of a good example of a get-orig-source rule?
<persia> rexbron: Did the examples I gave you yesterday not include one that worked for you?
<rexbron> persia: the wiki page explains how to use uscan, were their others?
<persia> rexbron: There was one in the recipies section, and the other in the section about changing the original tarball.
<rexbron> I will review motu/recipes
<persia> rexbron: You might also want to check the section in the packaging guide about changing the original tarball.
<persia> rexbron: LucidFox's looks pretty good, for a uscan based repack (http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/qconf-0711030750/qconf-1.4/debian/rules)
<rexbron> persia: except there is a typo in .PHONY :)
<rexbron> grt-orig-source
<persia> rexbron: Thanks.  I'll add that as a comment :)
<rexbron> persia: my main issue was I do not know how to use sed or awk to get the version number, but I will modify his example to suit genpo.
<persia> rexbron: So the issue with building a regular expression?
<persia> rexbron: `man -S 7 regex` might help.
<rexbron> basically, ya. I found sed and awk a bit daunting to read
<rexbron> read/understand
<persia> rexbron: Sorry.  It's my preferred regex format, so I've been encouraging people :)  I'd be happy to walk you through a line, or troubleshoot something, if you'd like.
<rexbron> persia: I have a regex list from a python book, would that be applicable?
<persia> rexbron: I think python uses a slightly different format, but I'm not sure (both perl & ruby use the same different format)
<persia> LucidFox: upid 503 commented.
 * persia ceases REVUing until REVU day (starts in ~21 hours)
<rexbron> persia: if you could walk me through the regex in the link you sent, I would appreciate it.
<persia> The qconf example?
<rexbron> yes
<persia> OK.  We have s/.*<upstream-version>\(.*\)<\/upstream-version>.*/\1/p
<Hobbsee> persia: nah, keep going.  then you can revu the fixed packages again :P
<persia> Hobbsee: No, I'm trying to split oxine, and I want to finish before I fall asleep, while still answering questions, etc.
<Hobbsee> persia: ahhh
<persia> So, it looks for the string between the first two '/' characters, and replaces with the string between the second two '/' characters, and prints the results (s/this/that/p)
<rexbron> ok
<knights> Not fair!
<knights> Why is debuild not working now?
<persia> The first string consists of '.*' which means "as many characters as possible while still meeting other conditions", "<upstream-version>" which is just those characters, '\(' which is really just '(': the \ is for a shell escapem '.*' which is as much as possible again, '\)', which is ')' escaped, "</upstream-version>", which is another literal, and another '.*'
<knights> I started it using 'debuild -us -uc' ans it starte to compile
<knights> but then I CTRL-C it, thought I might change something, changed my mind, then ran debuild -us -uc again but now it doesn't start compiling
<knights> dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
<persia> The "(foo)" construction is special: it indicates that "foo" should be saved in a buffer, for later use.  As this is the first parentheses, this is buffer #1
<knights> what happened?
<persia> knights: Your source dir got corrupted.  Try `debian/rules clean`.  If that doesn't work, your package suffers from the "Cannot be built twice" bug, and should be fixed.  You can usually get the old state by deleting the working directory, and using `dpkg-source -x ` in the parent directory.
<persia> So, back to sed: when looking at the replacement string, it consists of only "\1", which is a special notation to mean buffer #1, or the data that was between the parentheses in the match string.
<geser> persia: it depends on how regex is implemented: ( could be a verbatim ( and \( the start of a match buffer and vice versa
<rexbron> .....
<rexbron> persia: is it acceptable to call a python script that does the same thing?
<persia> geser: Not for uquoted regexes fed to sed in a makefile, but in some cases, yes (we're specifically looking at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/qconf-0711030750/qconf-1.4/debian/rules)
<persia> rexbron: You'd have to build-depend on python, which isn't so nice.  Otherwise, sure.
<geser> persia: first there seems to be ' missing at the start of the sed command
<persia> geser: My, you're right.  It was intended to be quoted, and it's not.
<persia> rexbron: My apologies: that was perhaps not an ideal example.
<geser> how does the output from "uscan --force-download --dehs" usually looks like?
<ScottK> rexbron: The Python regex syntax is unique.
<persia> geser: It can look like http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43116/
<rexbron> persia: see the dehs output makes the regex make sense
<rexbron> *seeing
 * cyberix feels tasked
<cyberix> dh_md5sums doesn't seem to do anything
<cyberix> and it reports no errors
<rexbron> persia: correct me if I am wrong, the sed line places what ever is between the two tags into buffer #1
<rexbron> in this case, the upstream version number
<geser> persia: \( \) are the matching ones, ( ) are verbatim ones
<persia> rexbron: That's the idea.
<geser> cyberix: what do you expect from dh_md5sums to do?
<rexbron> persia: .* <= not sure what that means, everything before?
<persia> geser: Hrm.  I thought I usually did it the other way.
<persia> rexbron: '.' means something (any character), '*' means any number (including 0) of the preceeding character
<cyberix> geser: I expect it to create a file with md5sums for some other files
<geser> persia: it's the other way with sed -r
<persia> geser: Ah.  That's it.  Thanks.
<rexbron> persia: ok, think I understand now. Thanks for your time
<persia> rexbron: Sure.  Thanks for working on the package.  I'm looking forward to using it.
<rexbron> :)
<persia> Could anyone point me at a good guide for splitting packages with debhelper?  http://wiki.debian.org/PkgSplit is frustrating me, in part because the sample package no longer exists.
<cyberix> How does dh_md5sums decide what to do?
<cyberix> It gives an error, if control file is missing.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<cyberix> I'm not sure why it needs it
<cyberix> But maybe that is not my problem
<bddebian> cyberix: debian/control ?
<cyberix> yep
<cyberix> It would be really nice to know what the script currently is/isn't doing
<persia> cyberix: man dh_md5sums and less /usr/bin/dh_md5sums might help...
<bddebian> Not to mention that debian/control is probably the most important file in a package :-)
<RainC1> hi
<persia> RainC1: Hi!
<bddebian> Heya RainC1
<cyberix> bddebian: I wasn't questioning that.
<rexbron> Question regarding re-rolled tarballs, should the version number of the orig.tar.gz be changed?
<cyberix> bddebian: But the information might help in reasoning
<rexbron> ie, <app>.dfsg1.orig.tar.gz
<persia> rexbron: You probably want something like pacakge-X.Y+dsfg.1-<revision>
<bddebian> rexbron: ...
<RainCT> I'm looking for something to merge, any suggestion? :)
<bddebian> RainCT: Feel free to grab any of mine
<rexbron> bddebian: I may have asked this question like 6 months ago.. :p
<persia> RainCT: You can have bacula, if you like
<bddebian> rexbron: No, persia beat me to the answer as always :-)
<persia> bddebian: OK.  You get the next question ...
 * persia requests a question to be posed...
<RainCT> hehe
<rexbron> persia, bddebian: that is in the changelog, is it not? Should the <app>.orig.tar.gz be vesioned aswell?
<persia> bddebian: Don't forget to explain why :)
<RainCT> persia: ok, I'll try with bacula. seems a pretty big package..
<bddebian> rexbron: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-origtargz
<persia> RainCT: It is indeed big, and a bit messy, but the patches should be fairly well organised, and both Debian and Upstream are pretty quick to merge things.
<RainCT> (do u read me?)
<persia> RainCT: Sorry: you left about 30 seconds after your last broadcast...
<rexbron> persia, bddebian: RFC, http://pastebin.ca/759768
<RainCT> persia: were you saying something?
<RainCT> (I just did a little test, the router doesn't like my PC :P)
<persia> RainCT: No, just apologising for not responding to your ping quickly enough to support your test.
<RainCT> ah, I was still in here?
<RainCT> well, isn't that importat. thanks anyways :)
<rexbron> bddebian: Sorry to be a pain, but did you see the pastebin link I sent you?
<persia> rexbron: He's being beaten over someone else's mistake in a secret room.  I'll take a look.
<bddebian> rexbron: Are you asking if that is correct?
<bddebian> persia: :-)
<persia> rexbron: You don't need line 8, but other than that, the important question is, does it work for you?
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<cyberix> persia: I'm now setting executing permission in rules file. I wonder, if it works.
<bddebian> Heya DarkSun88
<cyberix> persia: I've fixed other issues. Except that lintian complains about hardy not existing.
<persia> cyberix: You might also look into dh_fixperms
<bddebian> cyberix: dh_fixperms would be preferred
 * bddebian curses persia again :-)
<persia> bddebian: Just for that, I'm stealing wsjt.
<DarkSun88> bddebian: Hi :)
<knights> I've just ran lintian on my new deb and its complained about a few things. Can I make my adjustments then just re-run 'debuild -us -uc' or do I have to run another, clean-up command first?
<cyberix> "It makes all files in bin/ directories, /usr/games/ and etc/init.d executable (v4 only)."
<cyberix> I'm using debhelper 5
<persia> cyberix: Hrm.  Perhaps I'm out of date.  There should either be a replacement, or that really means (v4+ only)
<cyberix> I'll try that then
<knights> or do I just manually deleted the debs, .dsc files etc?
<knights> delete
<persia> knights: If your clean rule does everything it is supposed to do, you can just edit and rerun.  If not, delete the working directory, unpack the .dsc, and make your changes, and rebuild.
<knights> Have I got to use my Launchpad name as my mainter name?
<knights> maintainer name
<persia> knights: You must use the name on your GPG key.  Ideally this will match the name on your government issued identification (or getting your GPG key into the web of trust will be difficult)
<knights> Ack! So I NEED to get a GPG key now too? Yuk!
<knights> I don't know anything about this 'web-of-trust' either
<persia> knights: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust
<knights> Thats the page I'm on :)
<persia> knights: Essentially, it's a mechanism to prove you are you, so that as long as people trust you, they don't need to check the package as carefully.
<knights> He! I can't prove and nor do I fully trust I'm me, so that's buggered that one eh? :D
<persia> knights: Well, if a government believes you're you, that's usually enough.  You can pretend, and nobody has to know :)
<knights> I don't trust the govt to believe I'm me
<knights> ;)
 * persia grumbles at seahorse failing to have enough threading in the code
<rexbron> persia: This is fun, bash does not like multiline (even when continued with \ ) command substitution
<persia> rexbron: debian/rules is not a shell script (or am I confused?)
<rexbron> persia: doesn't make just exec the commands in a shell?
<rexbron> as I am getting bash errors...
<persia> rexbron: No.  It execs each line individually in the shell
<rexbron> what is the appropreiate way to test it then, calling rules get-orig-source?
<rexbron> persia: also from testing it myself, the get-orig source line will not work in the example you gave me
<rexbron> it needs a single $ and forgot to include the single quote at the start of the sed expression
<persia> rexbron: From qconf?  Geser pointed out it didn't have enough quotes.  Could you pastebin your error?
<rexbron> oh did he, ok then
<rexbron> not I got it to work
<rexbron> But I will paste bin it when I know it works in the rules file
<persia> rexbron: Cool.  My apologies: I have lots of information, but the details aren't always 100% correct.
<persia> rexbron: If you know it works, and you've tested it, no need to pastebin: just upload it :)
<rexbron> hmm
<cyberix> My rules file has the following line
<cyberix> binary: binary-indep
<cyberix> I copied it from somewhere
<cyberix> Does it make any sense?
<cyberix> The package doesn't actually have anything to compile
<rexbron> persia: http://pastebin.ca/759812
<persia> cyberix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming, it makes sense if binary-indep does something, which it should if you plan to create a binary independent package.
<persia> Each line like "foo: bar" represents a dependency.  In order for "foo" to execute, "bar" much first execute.  In this case, that line indicates that in order to build all the binary packages, one must first build the binary-independent packages (whereas the line might also be "binary: binary-arch" or "binary: binary-indep binary-arch")
<persia> You'll want to be sure the "binary-indep" rule creates the arch: all .deb file, and then everything is golden.
<rexbron> hmm why is make shorting this line version=$(uscan --force-download --dehs | sed -n 's/.*<upstream-version>\(.*\)<\/upstream-version>.*/\1/p') to version=<\/upstream-version>.*/\1/p') && \
<rexbron> as having it show up as shorted explains the bash error
<ion_> You need to escape the $
<ion_> Replace it with $$
<Kopfgeldjaeger> could someone look if this is ok for multiverse? http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/avidemux-0711031810/ -- its linda and lintian-clean
<persia> ion_: Excellent.  Thank you.
<knights> My rules file contains a 'dh_shlibdeps -a' but lintian is telling me I'm missing a 'dpkg-shlibdeps' can I just add this anywhere (at the end) or does it need to go in a certain place/order?
<knights> anywhere in the rules file, of course
<knights> persia?
<persia> knights: I think that belongs in binary-arch:, but I'm not sure (and not thinking well at this time of day)
<knights> OK, at the end of the binary-arch section then?
<RainCT> persia: * Apply 2.2.4-lost-block.patch from upstream bug#964 to address data loss
<persia> RainCT: That's already in Debian.  Drop it :)
<RainCT> where's that patch? there isn't any file called like that
<RainCT> ok
<rexbron> ...
<persia> RainCT: It looks like I made a mistake and modified src/stored/append.c directly.  Sorry about that.
<rexbron> when I echo the variable, instead of giving me the correct upstream version, I am getting a list of them
<rexbron> 1.3.5 1.3.1 0.9.6 0.4.0 0.4.0 0.4.0
 * rexbron is confused
<RainCT> persia: oh, ok
<persia> rexbron: Interesting.  You might play with other uscan output formats to get the right thing.
<LucidFox> So, sync requests must have the "sync" tag?
<persia> LucidFox: No, but it makes them easier to find.
<LucidFox> Ah.
<rexbron> persia: the really odd thing is if I run it by itself, i get the correct version
<rexbron> if I run it in the rules file, I get a list
<persia> rexbron: That is unexpected.
<rexbron> (and most of them are not even the correct numbers
<knights> I've got a SETUID file in my package- how do I add a 'Lintian override' for it?
<persia> knights: First, why do you have a setuid file?
<knights> Its a configuration tool
<LucidFox> knights> what package? setuid files are highly unwelcome because of security risks
<persia> knights: OK.  Why does it need to be setuid?  Can it not require that only root run it (or a suitably privileged user through sudo and the like)?
<knights> xdtv contains xdtv_v4l-conf
<cyberix> persia: That is what I'm doing. I was wondering why binary: gets executed at all. :-)
<knights> To be honest I've never had to run xdtv_v4l-conf - xdtv has always worked without running it for me
<persia> cyberix: Actually, in most cases it only gets called during manual local test builds (as I understand it), but it should really be there.
<cyberix> That was my best guess too. And that is why I asked instead of just removing it.
<knights> OK- so we'll make it so only root can run it. Thats no prob. What chmod command shall I use on it?
<persia> knights: 0755 is probably correct
<knights> Hi jussi01!
<knights> Thanks persia!
<jussi01> hi knights
<jussi01> heya persia
<persia> Hi jussi01
 * knights normally danboid
<persia> jussi01: Do you want another easy patch possible SRU?
<cyberix> persia: I fixed the issues and made various other improvements. Pour some more problems on me. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<cyberix> s/problems/improvement ideas/
<cyberix> ;-)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> no motu that has time to check my package for multiverse?
<jussi01> persia: LOL...throw it at me... havent got time right now, but if its not urgent
<persia> cyberix: I'm not REVUing anymore until REVU day.  You might catch someone else.  I did recently notice the existence of libpq though...
<persia> jussi01: bug #159734
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159734 in wsjt "wsjt does not install the correct dependencies" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159734
<jussi01> persia: that shuld be pretty basic :) nice familiaristation one. :)
<persia> jussi01: Still needs the test cycle and extra care though :)
<jussi01> persia: yes. but at least i know pretty much what to do. Ill give it a go and then you can critique/answer question. alright?
<persia> jussi01: OK.  See how far you can get
<cyberix> persia: Atleast commanding "pq" in an Ubuntu console doesn't suggest installing any packages, if that is what you're talking about.
<persia> cyberix: postgresql-8.1 produces libpq4.  Not likely to be too confusing, but wanted to make sure you knew.
<cyberix> persia: Ok. Thanks.
<knights> OK- so in the xdtv Makefile I've got these two lines:
<knights> install-exec-local: install-binPROGRAMS
<knights> chmod u+s $(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/bin/xdtv_v4l-conf
<knights> Thishould I just comment out both these lines?
<knights> or just that 2nd line?
<knights> or something else?
<knights> LucidFox still here?
<knights> I would imagine I just comment the second line
<knights> because the preceding line might do somrthing else
<knights> what does "install-exec-local: install-binPROGRAMS" do?
<knights> would nothing get installed if I commented that line?
<Zelut> E: bitlbee source: debian-rules-missing-required-target binary-indep
<Zelut> I get that from lintian and I'm not familiar with what it means.
<freakabcd> hi all
<freakabcd> I want to package my favourite application (anki) for ubuntu gutsy.
<freakabcd> what steps should i follow to create a package with the right dependencies, etc?
<Zelut> freakabcd: have you done packaging before?
<freakabcd> nope. i have made an odd rpm in the old days (of rh6)
<LaserJock> !packagingguide | freakabcd
<ubotu> freakabcd: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<freakabcd> pretty new to deb packaging i must admit
<Zelut> freakabcd: yeah, the packaging guide is a good place to start.
<ScottK> freakabcd: Also finding an existing package for a program similar to yours can be very helpful.
<Zelut> I'm working on my first package now..
<freakabcd> ScottK, well, the program (anki) is a very small one. has dependencies py-qt4 (>= 4.2) and python-sip (>=4)
<Zelut> ScottK: I finally decided to take a more standard package to start with vs my app I talked to you about
<freakabcd> ok, I'm going to follow that guide and make my package. I hope I won;t encounter too many problems
<Zelut> well you know where to find us if you do.. (granted I'm not much help yet)
<freakabcd> heh, thats ok. atleast you're 'older' than me in the packaging area :)
<Zelut> any of the head-motu realize that x is b0rken in hardy?
<crimsun_> hmm?
<crimsun_> hardy is going to be quite unusable for some time
<Zelut> crimsun_: ohh I know and I signed the virtual waiver :)
<Zelut> crimsun_: just did an update this morning and no more X since
<Zelut> complains about a broken package in xserver-xorg-core
<joejaxx> StevenK: are you going to do the flwm merge? :)
<knights> I don't understand what this dpkg-shlibdeps in rules is all about. If I've added it to the right part of rules I'm missing some commands off the end as debuild fails. Does it need to be run on every binary produced by the package? 'dpkg-shlibdeps xdtv' at the end of my rules causes debuild to fail
<knights> but it looks out of place really, all the others being dh_somewthing
<knights> If I don't have it there debuild works ok but lintian complains it is missing
<knights> would it still get accepted into universe even if lintian complains about this?
<somerville32> What exactly is the error?
<knights> unable to open 'xdtv' for test at /usr/bin/dpkg-shlibdeps line 117
<knights> I'm just guessing that 'dpkg-shlibdeps xdtv' is the kinda command I'm after?
<knights> its obviously wromg tho
<knights> or in the wrong place
<somerville32> Have you looked at dh_shlibdeps ?
<somerville32> knights, ^^
<knights> somerville32: 'dh_shlibdeps -a' is already in my rules file
<knights> and its uncommented
<somerville32> It is merely a wrapper around dpkg-shlibdeps
<somerville32> So I don't think you need to call dpkg-shlipdeps again
<knights> so what could lintian be moaning about?
<knights> It was something like 'xdtv is an ELF app with shared libs so you need to run dpkg-shlibdeps' or something
<somerville32> Get rid of your call to dpkg-shlibdeps and just let the debian helper script handle it for you.
<somerville32> Suppose that your source package produces libfoo1, libfoo-dev, and libfoo-bin binary packâages. libfoo-bin links against libfoo1, and should depend on it. In your rules file, first run dh_makeshlibs, then dh_shlibdeps:
<somerville32>                dh_makeshlibs
<somerville32>                dh_shlibdeps -L libfoo1 -l debian/libfoo1/usr/lib
<knights> somerville32: already set it compiling before you said that but I'll tell you what its complainig about soon
<freakabcd> ok, which is the updated guide?
<freakabcd> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<freakabcd> or http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<freakabcd> the copyright notice is repeated twice in one version.
<freakabcd> so i assume they are atleast (a little bit) different
<LaserJock> freakabcd: actually, the best might be to use the wiki version
<LaserJock> freakabcd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<knights> This packaging could be more work than I anticipated- must I get no complaints off lintian before its accepted into universe or are some warnings (like missing manpages) OK?
<LaserJock> knights: where there as some lintian complaints that aren't a big deal
<LaserJock> *well
<LaserJock> you should have a manpage though
<knights> I do have SOME manpages, but then those bins that do have them have lots of ' hyphen-used-as-minus-sign' errors- I take it these don't mayyer much?
<knights> matter
<freakabcd> are pdfs not available of the packaging guide?
<LaserJock> freakabcd: not currently no
<freakabcd> i can;t find the pdf for it. i want to read it in evince or other app. i just hate reading stuff in the web browser :(
<LaserJock> freakabcd: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/pdf/ubuntu/C/packagingguide.pdf
<freakabcd> ah for edgy, not many changes from it i guess
<LaserJock> some, bt it should work
<LaserJock> *but
<JeffreyRatcliffe> Is there an MOTU who would be prepared to look at my package tesseract? I've uploaded it to REVU (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=tesseract)
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: how big are these language packs?
<JeffreyRatcliffe> Depends on the language. Typically 1-2Mb.
<JeffreyRatcliffe> I've packages all 8 languages currently available, but only uploaded English. When it is clear that the packaging for English is OK, I'll upload the others.
<LaserJock> do you mean they are separate source packages?
<JeffreyRatcliffe> Yes. Each language pack is available separately, and I have packaged them separately.
<pwnguin> does the new version handle layout analysis better?
<LaserJock> are the GPL and apache licenses compatible?
<somerville32> Hardly anything is compatible w/ GPL :/
<geser> knights: replace - with \- in the manpages where appropriate (e.g. it makes it easier to search for --help (hyphen and minus aren't the same in UTF-8))
<geser> JeffreyRatcliffe: you can remove "g++ (>=4)" from build-depends as all Ubuntu versions have a g++ greater 4
<LaserJock> hmm seems GPLv3 is compatible but not GPLv2
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: so you might want to make your packaging GPLv3
<geser> JeffreyRatcliffe: and move Homepage into it's new control field inside debian/control
<freakabcd> err.. i have a small question: is pbuilder going to install an entire (although minimal) distro again?
<LaserJock> freakabcd: essentially yes
<freakabcd> can;t i just use fakeroot (and alike) so it avoids having to make another system?
<LaserJock> well, as long as you have a decent connection it's no problem
<geser> JeffreyRatcliffe: does one really needs all the languages for tesseract in Recommends? Recommends should be installed by default but can be removed (week depends)
<LaserJock> pbuilder is very advisable
<freakabcd> LaserJock, for what do i need a decent connection?
<LaserJock> to download the packages for the minimal install that pbuilder is going to create
<freakabcd> LaserJock, i don;t want to have *another* install just to build packages. the one i have should suffice
<LaserJock> well, it's not exactly *another* install
<knights> How do I go about constructing the right dh_shlibdeps command for my package? AFAIK my packages doesn't create any new libs
<freakabcd> LaserJock, i want to _not_ use pbuilder. the guide covers this method, right?
<JeffreyRatcliffe> I haven't looked at the Apache in detail, but v1 was the same. I'll change it to GPLv3 anyway. g++ is still needed to build, so shouldn't I leave that line?
<LaserJock> freakabcd: well, basically pbuilder is required, although sbuild is also used
<pwnguin> JeffreyRatcliffe: change what now?
<freakabcd> eh.. ok, how much space is pbuilder going to eat up?
<freakabcd> on my hdd
<LaserJock> freakabcd: ~100MB
<freakabcd> woah, quite a bit.
<pwnguin> plus the temp space for build depends
<somerville32> 100MB is not a lot.
<LaserJock> yeah, depending on the package you can chew up a lot of space
<LaserJock> I've seen some apps go ~2GB
<pwnguin> pbuilder will unpack that, and then grab build depends from the net and install them into a temp dir while it builds
<somerville32> Thats a lot
<JeffreyRatcliffe> pwnguin: the packaging licence
<pwnguin> is g++ part of build-essential?
<LaserJock> freakabcd: do you not have enough disk space?
<pwnguin> yes.
<freakabcd> LaserJock, let us assume that at the moment
<pwnguin> JeffreyRatcliffe: g++ is part of build depends...
<pwnguin> JeffreyRatcliffe: err, part of "build-essential"
<LaserJock> freakabcd: hmm, that's tough. you can build without pbuilder but it's not encouraged
<geser> freakabcd: have you enough space to install all build-depends?
<LaserJock> and depending on the package you'll still have to install build deps
<freakabcd> geser, my system is essentially a damned dev machine. most of the dev packages are installed
 * pwnguin notes that while not very efficient, you can use a PPA to host builds
<pwnguin> freakabcd: but the point is to ensure that you've properly specified the build depenencies to avoid "works for me" scenarios
<pwnguin> if you're just being OCD about disk space, I suggest you get over it. if you're truly low on disk space, that's something you should want to work around
<freakabcd> pwnguin, i get the idea. but my package is small enough and the dep. list is also small enough.
<freakabcd> you guys can prolly make a package for this app in seconds!
<freakabcd> and i am *not* joking
<LaserJock> freakabcd: and you are running hardy?
<freakabcd> LaserJock, nope.
<freakabcd> gutsy
<LaserJock> freakabcd: you should build your packages on hardy
<freakabcd> eh.. but i just installed gutsy
<LaserJock> right, that's why we use pbuilder ;-)
<hellboy195> freakabcd: no. only pbuilder environment should be gutsy
<pwnguin> what
<freakabcd> hellboy195, what?
<pwnguin> you mean hardy
<geser> freakabcd: and new packages should be able to build in hardy (if you want them in the archive)
<LaserJock> freakabcd: but you could use Launchpads PPA maybe if you really don't want to use pbuilder
<freakabcd> i don't comprehend the sentence hellboy195 wroe
<freakabcd> wrote
<freakabcd> grr.. please stop it!
<pwnguin> freakabcd: that might be for the best...
<LaserJock> heh
<freakabcd> don't flood all the possible options and why each option might be better
<freakabcd> this is what scares off people from contributing casually
<LaserJock> freakabcd: well, I'm just trying to help you out :(
<hellboy195> freakabcd: Ã¤h sry. I meant hardy -.-
<freakabcd> heh, i know. i'm just saying that providing a lot of options to inexperienced people is a very bad thing to do
<freakabcd> just as they are learning.
<hellboy195> LaserJock: I think PPA is the easiest for him!?
<LaserJock> hellboy195: well, not really
<knights> I've got an old deb for edgy for my package- can I not extract the rules file from this somehow?
<LaserJock> knights: no
<pwnguin> freakabcd: well, you're the one who said pbuilder took too much space....
<knights> dang!
<LaserJock> freakabcd: pbuilder is *the* tool for build testing
<pwnguin> if you dont want solutions, dont make up problems!
<LaserJock> pwnguin: easy now :-)
<geser> freakabcd: when doing packaging there isn't always one "true" solution for a problem but often several
<freakabcd> for example: lets say you are just learning about electrostatic interaction between charged electrodes in electrolyte. I am *not* going to tell you: (a)you can assume planar symmetry and use the Debye-Huckel approximation (b)solve nonlinear poisson-boltzmann equation numerically for the right answer or (c) use symmetry arguments for spherical -> cylindrical -> planar approximations
<knights> Well I'm stuck now it seems. I got most of the way- I just don't understand the man page for dh_shlibdeps and so I'm stuck on that
<pwnguin> good news. packaging isnt quantum physics
<geser> knights: only if you still have the .diff.gz
<freakabcd> see that? it might make you think: ok, this is a bad thing to learn
<LaserJock> freakabcd: ok, so we gave you the one to use, pbuilder
<LaserJock> one solution
<LaserJock> you said that you didn't want to do that
<LaserJock> so we're trying to figure out something here
<freakabcd> hehe, lemme take some baby steps & go through the 'build deb from scratch' in the doco
<LaserJock> freakabcd: actually, maybe you shouldn't do that
<pwnguin> heh
<freakabcd> really?
<LaserJock> you might get overwhelmed with that
<pwnguin> since it walks you through 3 different ways to package
<LaserJock> yes
<freakabcd> what? i browsed through it. seemed not too complicated
<LaserJock> and starts witht he hardest
<knights> Can I not compile my app, then do a ldd on the binary, then that should tell me most of what I need to know for dh_shlibdeps?
<LaserJock> freakabcd: ok, if it didn't seem complicated go for it
<freakabcd> you mean from scratch -> debhelper -> cdbs ?
<pwnguin> yes
<LaserJock> freakabcd: yes
<freakabcd> well, scratch will make me understand the process better
<LaserJock> freakabcd: right, that's why I wrote it that way
<freakabcd> indeed. and i *want* to learn :D
 * pwnguin is tempted to make gender comparisons at the moment
<LaserJock> ok, great
<freakabcd> pwnguin, ?
<LaserJock> freakabcd: ok, go for it!
<LaserJock> freakabcd: and if you have questions feel free to ask
<freakabcd> yeah, i'm reading.
<freakabcd> thanks.
<knights> Don't suppose anybody here wants to pick up where I left off packaging xdtv? Its just a case of setting dh_shlibdeps correct and getting rid of the SETUID binary now- package builds fine apart from that
<freakabcd> i can use linda wherever lintian is used, right?
<knights> I bet an experienced packager could sort this in a couple of minutes
<freakabcd> i just read the desc in synaptic for linda and it said: 'better' than lintian
<LaserJock> freakabcd: it's actually good to use both
<freakabcd> ok, i'll install lintian as well then
<LaserJock> freakabcd: a great tip for packaging is to run lintian -i and linda -i on the .dsc (source package) and .deb (binary package)
<LaserJock> they can save you a lot of grief
<freakabcd> ok, i'll remember this. i am writing all the concepts/tips and stuff i will be typing out in the term onto a txt file
<freakabcd> going through the hello example now.
<freakabcd> so it makes it easier for me to understand the entire process later on
<LaserJock> freakabcd: please share any feedback on package learning with us too
<knights> Whats Debian's packaging channel called? I'll take my probs over there
<LaserJock> we're well aware that the documentation is nowhere near perfect
<LaserJock> knights: you're giving up here?
<jpatrick> LaserJock: weren't you involed in edubuntu?
<LaserJock>  #debian-mentors on oftc
<LaserJock> jpatrick: yes sir
<knights> LaserJock: No-one has been able to answer my question
<LaserJock> knights: what was your question?
<freakabcd> LaserJock, sure, i will. i can provide whatever doco i generate for myself, so the doco on the site can be edited if necessary
<jpatrick> LaserJock: just so you know edubuntu-es.org is going up in about an hour
<LaserJock> freakabcd: thanks!
<LaserJock> jpatrick: oh?
<LaserJock> jpatrick: who's doing it?
<knights> LaserJock: I've read the man page for dh_shlibdeps but it didn't make blip sense to me
<jpatrick> LaserJock: some guy from Spain
<knights> I need to set it up in my rules file
<LaserJock> knights: what are you trying to do with dh_shlibdeps?
<knights> I'm 'missinga depends line'
<LaserJock> knights: so it's not adding enough?
<knights> So I need to know how to correctly construct said line
<LaserJock> knights: are you getting a particular error?
<knights> Not really. The short version of the error is 'W: xdtv: missing-depends-line'
<knights> I could print the long error too but it doesn't add anything useful
<LaserJock> that's from lintian?
<LaserJock> or at build time
<knights> No, the lintian error is a bit longer but equally unhelpful
<knights> this is from lintian after its been built
<LaserJock> knights: can you pastebin it for me?
<ssh_rdp> Hi, I am trying to start packaging, but I got a problem, How can I set owner of a file in package, I saw some packages that used dpkg-statoverride to change file ownerships but is it correct?
<knights> LaserJock: Yeah
<LaserJock> ssh_rdp: you can do it in a postinst script
<ssh_rdp> LaserJock: with chown ?
<LaserJock> ssh_rdp: quite possibly :-)
<knights> LaserJock: http://pastebin.ca/760006
<knights> thats the full nasty
<LaserJock> knights: running as root? :-)
<knights> Ommm! Yeah
<knights> Thats not the cause of the prob though is it?
<LaserJock> knights: not particularly I don't think, but you shouldn't do that
<LaserJock> packaging is done as a user
<LaserJock> knights: can you pastebin your control file for me?
<LaserJock> the only thing that needs admin privileges is pbuilder
<knights> LaserJock: http://pastebin.ca/760011
<knights> LaserJock: OK
<JeffreyRatcliffe> pwnguin: g++ is needed to compile the package, and therefore is part of build-essential. Is that not OK?
<LaserJock> knights: ready for the solution? :-)
<knights> Dunno If i can handle this much excitement but, go on...
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: packages that are essential don't need to be added to the Build-Depends, they are assumed to be available
<pwnguin> JeffreyRatcliffe: build-essential is a package on its own, installed for every build
<LaserJock> knights: in debian/control you have no Depends: line for xdtv
<knights> LaserJock: Ahhhhh!
<knights> LaserJock: Thanks! I'll mess a bit more then
<LaserJock> knights: you should have at least have Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
<LaserJock> the shlibs:Depends variable pulls in the shared deps from dpkg-shlibdeps
<JeffreyRatcliffe> What good is Build-Depends, then?
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: for stuff that isn't essential
<pwnguin> JeffreyRatcliffe: build-essential is only a few packages. it doesnt install debhelper, for example
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: there's only a small set of packages that are deemed "essential"
<pwnguin> build essential is a package, Build-Depends is a field
<JeffreyRatcliffe> I don't see why in this case autotools-dev should be in Build-Depends but g++ not
<LaserJock> because g++ is "essential" and autotools-dev isn't
<LaserJock> "essential" is a package priority
<pwnguin> JeffreyRatcliffe: g++ is already brought in by default via the build-essential package
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: this is from the build-essential package description:
<LaserJock> If you have this package installed, you only need to install whatever a package specifies as its build-time dependencies to build the package.  Conversely, if you are determining what your package needs to build-depend on, you can always leave out the packages this package depends on.
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: is that making sense?
<JeffreyRatcliffe> OK. So you are saying that I should have build-essential in Build-Depends, rather than g++? I hadn't seen build-essential. Yes. got it now
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> build-essential is *assumed*
<LaserJock> packages in build-essential are assumed to be already installed
<LaserJock> so you *only* need to add in the additional dependencies
<JeffreyRatcliffe> OK. So neither build-essential, nor any of its dependencies.
<LaserJock> right
<pwnguin> builders will install build-essential automatically for you
<LaserJock> well, not exactly
<knights> LaserJock: Am I likely to need to add ${misc:Depends} too?
<knights> to my control file
<LaserJock> they already have the essential packages installed
<LaserJock> knights: can you pastebin your rules file for me?
<LaserJock> :-)
<knights> Indeed
<knights> LaserJock: http://pastebin.ca/760039
<LaserJock> knights: you most likely don't need it, but it doesn't really hurt
<knights> LaserJock: OK, thanks
<LaserJock> knights: misc:depends pulls in any additional dependencies from dh_*
<JeffreyRatcliffe> So if I change the packaging licence to GPL3 and remove g++ from Build-Depends, then tesseract is OK?
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: well ... I don't know
<knights> lintian is still giving me the error 'W: xdtv: setuid-binary usr/bin/xdtv_v4l-conf 4755 root/root'
<knights> even though I'm commented that chmod bit out of the makefile and
<freakabcd> a small doubt: if app exists in debian and is changed in ubuntu, then version will be 2.2-1ubuntu1
<freakabcd> if app doesn;t exist in debian, revision is 2.2-1ubuntu0 ?
<LaserJock> if the debian version is 2.2-1 yes
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it'll be 2.2-0ubuntu1
<knights> The line 'dh_fixperms -X xdtv_v4l-conf' is commented out in my rules file
<freakabcd> sorry, yeah i meant to type 2.2-0ubuntu1
<LaserJock> it's <upstream version>-<debian revision>ubuntu<ubuntu revision>
<LaserJock> freakabcd: yep, that's right
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: I think there's some stuff you can clean up in debian/rules
<freakabcd> LaserJock, so *all* ubuntu packages have the version as {version}-{deb_rev}{ubuntu}{ubuntu_rev} ?
<crimsun_> not all.  Most.
<LaserJock> freakabcd: packages changed by Ubuntu yeah, well except some native packages
<freakabcd> but the hello src package for gutsy debian/changelog has only 2.2-1 as the revision
<LaserJock> freakabcd: because Ubuntu hasn't changed it
<freakabcd> so if i am making a package for an app that doesn;t have an ubuntu package and doesn;t have a debian package, what would my version be?
<freakabcd> 0.36-1 ?
<freakabcd> or 0.36-0ubuntu1
<freakabcd> ?
<LaserJock> well, 0.36-1 would mean it's for Debian
<LaserJock> 0.36-0ubuntu1 would mean it's for Ubuntu
<freakabcd> LaserJock, but if *most* packages like you guys say have the ubuntuX postfix, how come most of the packages don;t show the ubuntuX postfix in synaptic?
<freakabcd> it just means they haven;t been changed from the debian package?
<LaserJock> freakabcd: no, I didn't say that
<LaserJock> I said most package that Ubuntu has changed have ubuntuX versions
<freakabcd> ok, cool. so i will be using 0.36-0ubuntu1
<knights> OK- so I need to get rid of this SETUID file now
<knights> and my unix is very poor
<knights> I suppose I need to search all the source files for chmod right?
<LaserJock> source files?
<knights> something like 'find * | grep chmod' or something, maybe?
<knights> yeah- ubuntu doesn't lie setuid files
<knights> like
<freakabcd> knights, err just use grep
<freakabcd> grep -irn 'chmod' *
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: you can probably clean up the ./configure line
<knights> Thanks freakabcd!
<LaserJock> well, actually there's probably not a chmod anywhere
<freakabcd> 'i' just in case some script is using a var like: CHMOD=chmod and using $CHMOD everywhere it needs it
<knights> So how do I get rid of this pesky file?
<knights> LaserJock: How do I attack tit?
<knights> he!
<knights> sorry! bad typo that! :)
<freakabcd> lol, i'll pretend i didn't read that sentence wrong :)
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: you also don't need specificy patch/unpatch rules
<knights> As I've said already-  I've commented that chmod bit out of the makefile and The line 'dh_fixperms -X xdtv_v4l-conf' is commented out in my rules file
<JeffreyRatcliffe> LaserJock: I have a debian/patch, so why no patch/unpatch?
<knights> These were the two lines I thought might be responsible for the setuid file
<JeffreyRatcliffe> LaserJock: dh_link I can remove, I think
<knights> The line in the makefile looks like: 'chmod u+s $(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/bin/xdtv_v4l-conf' and thats commented
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: one sec
<knights> This is my last prob- honest! :)
<_16aR_> Hello
<freakabcd> the control file for my app would be saying 'extra' for priority, right?
<_16aR_> Anyone has used scons with cdbs ?
<freakabcd> the package (anki) will only be useful to those that know what the package is for.
<freakabcd> atleast fits the description of 'extra' from the doco. is this right?
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: read man dpatch.make
<LaserJock> JeffreyRatcliffe: it'll clean up the patching stuff
<LaserJock> freakabcd: actually, probably optional
<freakabcd> LaserJock, ok. i will do that
<LaserJock> knights: well, if it needs suid it needs suid
<knights> Yesss! ;)
<freakabcd> knights, got rid of it?
<LaserJock> well, we don't like them, but if you either need to patch the package to not need of it or you gotta install it, that is *if* it needs it
<LaserJock> crimsun_: you got any suggestions? I haven't dealt with suid binaries
<knights> freakabcd: nope, its still haunting me
<LaserJock> freakabcd: "extra" is for packages that conflict with other packages
<LaserJock> freakabcd: "optional" is sort of the generic priority
<freakabcd> knights, what package is this? and what is the suid binary exactly?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: I haven't been reading backscroll.
<LaserJock> crimsun_: knights has a package that installs a suid binary and lintian complains
<freakabcd> LaserJock, the language is ambiguous then. that sentence might need to be edited
<LaserJock> crimsun_: I  know we don't like suid binaries  but what does a person do about it
<knights> freakabcd: xdtv- its a video/TV capture, viewing and streaming tool. Very powerful
<LaserJock> freakabcd: make sure to write that down in your notes ;-)
<freakabcd> I *am* writing it down :)
<freakabcd> i just wrote down that the language might be ambiguous for describing the package priority
<LaserJock> I thought I just took that from the Debian Policy but perhaps I wasn't clear enough
<LaserJock> for the wiki we should just link to the Debian Policy section on it
<freakabcd> maybe, i read it wrong. anyway, its in my notes regarding that sentence.
<crimsun_> LaserJock: chmod it.
<LaserJock> crimsun_: will that be sufficient? I wasn't sure
<crimsun_> yes.
<LaserJock> knights: listen to crimsun_ , he's a packaging god! ;-)
<freakabcd> LaserJock, I think we could make a wonderful change: 'add example(s) for each package priority!
<JeffreyRatcliffe> LaserJock: Thanks for the tip with dpatch.make. I'll finish cleaning up debian/rules tomorrow and upload a new attempt then...
<crimsun_> (that's a marked exaggeration)
<LaserJock> crimsun_: well, I was going to say *the* but I didn't ;-)
<LaserJock> freakabcd: hmm, it's rare to see stuff other than optional
<knights> crimsun_,: OK, so do you think its just a case of me changing the 'chmod u+s $(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/bin/xdtv_v4l-conf' line in my progs makefile?
<crimsun_> knights: no, just explicitly remove the setuid bit in debian/rules
<knights> crimsun_: That didn't work
<crimsun_> knights: at what point did you apply the chmod?
<knights> I commented out the line that said 'dh_fixperms -X xdtv_v4l-conf' in my rules
<crimsun_> knights: err, no.  That doesn't do what you intend.
<crimsun_> knights: you need that line in addition to chmod 755 $(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/bin/xdtv_v4l-conf
<crimsun_> (assuming you wanted it 755)
<knights> I have the previous line uncommented (included) as well as that new line?
<crimsun_> yes
<knights> OK, Thanks crimsun_ - I 'll try that now
<knights> does that chmod line go right at the end of my rules file?
<crimsun_> depends.
<crimsun_> it must appear prior to dh_installdeb
<crimsun_> sorry, s/install/build/
<knights> but within the binary-arch section?
<crimsun_> if that's where it appears, yes
<LaserJock> alright folks, I gotta run and get some real work done
<knights> OK- thanks for all your help LaserJock!
<LaserJock> gotta get this dissertation done at some point ;-)
<knights> good luck with that! Whats it on?
<LaserJock> knights: well, shooting little molecular machinery with lasers to see how the work
<LaserJock> *they
<LaserJock> that's not the official title ;-)
<knights> Cor! Sounds a bit techy that!
<LaserJock> I'm a physical chemist
<knights> Like, nanotech?
<LaserJock> yes
<nixternal> a psycho chemist is more like it
<LaserJock> nanosensors mostly
<nixternal> :p
<crimsun_> that means a lot coming from a Vista abuser.
<LaserJock> nixternal: pffft, at least I'm no lamo MBA
<knights> scary stuff! I await the grey swarm yet :(
<nixternal> hey, the world needs more dumb people like me
<nixternal> oh man, I swear, crimsun_ says nothing forever, and then everytime I speak, I swear he says something
<nixternal> I am starting to think he is a bot :)
<crimsun_> of course, this bot has a trigger for nixternal.
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> I wouldn't put it past you
<LaserJock> nixternal: read http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=914
<LaserJock> nixternal: I think of you every time I read that
 * StevenK appears back from Boston downtown
<somerville32> wb
<nixternal> hardee har har LaserJock
<nixternal> I am starting to think that MBAs are useless
<LaserJock> of course they are
<LaserJock> that's why everybody gets MBA+something useful
<nixternal> but, the richest people in America have one...and I want to be just like them :)
<nixternal> I want to pay off the government so lawsuits don't effect me and such :)
<StevenK> Ha. "Boston: Light rain" -- it isn't so light
<LaserJock> I'd rather not get sued in the first  place
<nixternal> StevenK: that is good though, because Boston really needs a bath
<nixternal> I would go buy some detergent and throw it all over the streets
<StevenK> "Temperature: 7C" "Feels like: 2C"
<LaserJock> anyway, bbl
<StevenK> nixternal: Boston isn't that bad.
<nixternal> the only thing that sucks about all of this business school crap, is it really kills my engineering potential if I decide to continue this education stuff
<nixternal> I looked at my options and they are bleak
<crimsun_> hmm?  Why would it?
<nixternal> StevenK: if you say so...head about 30 minutes south into their burbs
<crimsun_> I know people who get MBAs and MS xEs
<nixternal> crimsun_: because I don't have all of the high tech science and math courses behind me
<StevenK> nixternal: I'd rather not, I just spent a few hours in downtown Boston getting soaked.
<nixternal> heh
<crimsun_> nixternal: that's normally not an issue; many committees simply require you to take prereqs
<crimsun_> conditional admittance
<nixternal> crimsun_: ya, but the prereqs would be about the same as getting a BS almost
<nixternal> and seeing that I am more than halfway to a BS, I thought about getting it for the heck of it...the one benefit I have is free schooling
 * nixternal imagines the people in the UK going "free schooling? we thought it was free everywhere" :p
<knights> university isn't free in the UK
<knights> far from it
<nixternal> it is crazy watching people drop like flies because not all education is free here
<LaserJock> nixternal: you're just in the wrong field, I get paid to go to grad school ;-)
<nixternal> me too :)
<nixternal> by the US Government
<nixternal> tax free too
<nixternal> you can't say that much when you live in the US
<crimsun_> so what's your sentence afterward? : )
<nixternal> I already did my sentence and am still doing it
<LaserJock> nixternal: paid paid? or just tuition paid?
<nixternal> LaserJock: paid paid paid
<LaserJock> nice
<knights> UK/US - independence day my arse!
<nixternal> only thing out of my pocket is lab fees and books...so it only costs me about $300 a semester for 20 credit hours
<knights> same people running the show behind the scenes
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> nixternal:  I get $20k, health insurance, and tuition
<LaserJock> but it's still rough
<nixternal> wow, that is almost exactly what I get
<LaserJock> yeah, well mine's comming from tax payers too
<nixternal> but my health insurance has no out of pocket costs, everything is free there
<nixternal> so is mine :)
<crimsun_> well, you guys are paying me, so I guess everyone wins
<LaserJock> I have to pay out the nose for my wife
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> crimsun_: tax payers are paying me as well...the good ol' Department of Defense employment
<nixternal> LaserJock: you go to a public school right?
<crimsun_> ah, the behemoth that is the DoD.
<LaserJock> nixternal: University of Nevada
<LaserJock> go wolfpack!
<nixternal> well LaserJock is getting paid by tax payers as well
<crimsun_> right, we're all contributing to each other's demise.
 * LaserJock hugs DoD and DoE
<nixternal> heh, my reserve job is working along side the DoE actually
<LaserJock> I was looking at government/military jobs the other day
<LaserJock> for some reason they're mostly by D.C. :(
<nixternal> NavSeaSysCom OC-J8 and DoE re-certification on nuclear subs
<LaserJock> I don't know why they wouldn't want a national lab in Montana... :-)
<nixternal> yup, DoE is right on Independence in D.C.
<nixternal> I will be there in the next couple of months
<knights> So who has the highest security clearance here then eh? ;)
<nixternal> we are supposed to go to New Mexico for training
<crimsun_> nixternal: don't be a stranger.
<nixternal> crimsun_: of course not
<nixternal> I am moving out by you in about 6 months I think
<nixternal> anywhere from DC to southern MD to be exact
<crimsun_> md or dc?
<LaserJock> crimsun_: can people visit you at work or is pretty tight?
<nixternal> so I could be you neighbor or within 30 minutes
<crimsun_> LaserJock: the latter
<nixternal> I know where I will be working, the only way for you to visit is to the have the Civilian or Military sticker on your front windshield
<knights> You could link yr PCs and get some seriously networked packaging done!
 * nixternal has a Red sticker on his vehicle, so no saluting
<knights> serious :)
<LaserJock> I've only been to a DoE lab before and it wasn't horrible, just had to go through some hoops, but nothing heroic
<nixternal> knights: we can't do anything with out base machines
<nixternal> I know my old machine at my last job had the puttied usb ports
<crimsun_> we badge with rfids, so no, no visitors unless there's a legit reason.
<knights> Thats right
<nixternal> crimsun_: who do you work for? or will they kill you for telling?
<nixternal> ;p
<nixternal> err, s/out/our up a few lines there
<crimsun_> do you allow unidentified msgs?
<LaserJock> nixternal: "My name is Chen, Daniel Chen" ;-)
<nixternal> hahah
<nixternal> Daniel T. Chen damnit! get it right :p
<LaserJock> opps, sorry
<somerville32> Department of Education?
<nixternal> energy
<knights> Energy
<somerville32> lol
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> that makes me laugh
 * LaserJock gets a security clearance to go to a top secret national lab run by the Department of Education ...
<nixternal> hahahaha
<nixternal> Farmy, not Fermi
<LaserJock> lol
<nixternal> I was just at Fermi the other day
<LaserJock> somerville32: dude, I can't stop laughing
<LaserJock> you made my day
<nixternal> seems they are looking for some Linux folks in the area
<somerville32> \o/
<knights> zooom!
<knights> Sorry, don't let me interrupt. I'm fascinated! :)
<nixternal> my job is boring though, and thankfully is only 2 weeks a year and 1 weekend a month long :)
<nixternal> although, I don't get to do my 2 weeks a year any place fun anymore though
<knights> Yes, but tell us about the tech please!
<nixternal> I so need to get back with a combat unit so I can get back to Puerto Rico
<knights> The ENERGY devices
<nixternal> the energy devices are nothing more than nuclear bombs :p
<knights> What can you tell us?
<nixternal> I mess with big guns and that's it unfortunately
<knights> Tesla's dad apparently had access to the Vatican library
<knights> that might explain a few things
<pwnguin> you dont need a combat team to go to puerto rico...
<nixternal> haha, no but when you are with a combat team in the navy reserves, you get to go to cool places
<knights> I rememberwhen this room was all compiling and scripting :)
<nixternal> a combat engineering team, not like grunts and what not
<pwnguin> combat engineering -- we can rig up a trubchet from local resources in 48 hours!
<nixternal> haha, that is more like it
<pwnguin> actually, my scout troop built a catapult in about 6 hours
<knights> So what percentage of the people on this channel have military connections? Count me in obviously
<nixternal> well, our group does more along the lines of taking apart sea and land mines
<somerville32> I do
<knights> 3,4
 * pwnguin has a fantastic idea: instead of euthanizing stray cats...
<nixternal> my only 2 tours in Iraq were doing just that...and man, I have to say, Iraqis need help with brewing their alcohol....for flavor that is, because the alcohol is obviously there
<pwnguin> let them clear minefields
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> hahahahhahahahahahaha
<pwnguin> nixternal: well afaik, they're not allowed to actually have any alcohol
<nixternal> pwnguin: really? because you either drink the tea or the brew
<nixternal> their tea will probably make you fail a pee test, but oh well
<pwnguin> i think alcohol is against iraqi law
<somerville32> I think now that the taliban aren't in control, they allow you to drink
<pwnguin> being a muslim taboo and what not
<rexbron> I know the qu'ran forbids alcohol, but I have no idea about the law
<nixternal> now my only military tours are at Great Lakes Naval Base..and boy are they boring
<pwnguin> i recall a guy getting nearly shot up for speeding and running away from a patrol, turns out he just had alcohol in the trunk and thought the patrol would turn him in or something for it
<pwnguin> nixternal: but if canada ever invades, hoo boy!
<nixternal> I know nothing much about the religion, but they do drink, and I noticed quite a few listen to rap music
<pwnguin> people drank during the prohibition too
<nixternal> pwnguin: hahahahaha, I was with a Canadian outfit actually
<nixternal> I learned 3 things about Canada and their military that I never in my life never had any clue about
<nixternal> 1) they have a pretty bad arse special forces unit
<nixternal> 2) they are pretty elite at explosive ordnance disposal
<nixternal> 3) they will drink just about anything
<pwnguin> apparently the alcohol laws were lifted a few years ago. im guessing that story was from before then
<pwnguin> http://www.aliraqnews.com/23-5-16.htm
<somerville32> We're also pretty elite snipers
<nixternal> you don't get to see the snipers, literally
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> which is funny...nobody there knows who the snipers are, but you know who the special forces units are
<nixternal> you would think it was the other way around
<somerville32> I've met several snipers
<pwnguin> thats just the special forces they want you to know about
<somerville32> But I've never met a special force guy
<somerville32> Although I suspect I did meet one once
<pwnguin> i knew a guy who did the rangers test
<nixternal> pwnguin: true
<pwnguin> wound up leaving my school for westpoint
<pwnguin> who apparently doesnt accept transfer credit
<somerville32> Delta < Special Task
<nixternal> I almost got booted from the military for trying to be...I killed my left knee and they wanted to give me a medical discharge...but I was able to pass the PT tests with flying colors
<somerville32> PT test is pretty easy :/
<nixternal> somerville32: that would be hard to believe, since Delta Force is made up from the most elite people from all around the world and different branches of the military
<somerville32> I don't think thats true.
<nixternal> it is true
<nixternal> that is about the only info they will publish about the df
<somerville32> JTS is pretty hawt stuff.
<somerville32> JTS is equiv to Seals not Delta anyhow
<Kopfgeldjaeger> does any MOTU have time to check if my package is ready for multiverse? norsetto had a look at it some time ago
<crimsun_> which source package?
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> Debian is a lot stricter than Ubuntu when it comes to QA :]
<Kopfgeldjaeger> crimsun_: avidemux
<crimsun_> that's probably unfortunate.
<ScottK> nixternal: A Canadian sniper currently holds the world distance record.  He got it in Afghanistan for some mind bogglingly long shot (I don't recall exactly).
<ScottK> somerville32: It depends a lot on the DD.  Some are, some aren't.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> crimsun_: was that for me?
<warp10> Hi all!
<crimsun_> Kopfgeldjaeger: yes
<Kopfgeldjaeger> crimsun_: because of the codec stuff and so?
<crimsun_> Kopfgeldjaeger: oh, you mean the "unfortunate" bit?  No, that was to somerville32.
<crimsun_> I thought you meant my "which source package"
<somerville32> crimsun_, For ubuntu or debian?
<crimsun_> somerville32: both, really.
<somerville32> lose-lose?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> crimsun_: ah, ok :-) as i said, the source package is avidemux (the version in feisty and gutsy, which are the same, are very old and not very useful).  a link to the daily svn: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/avidemux-0711031810/
<nxvl> how do i apply a debdiff? with patch?
<crimsun_> nxvl: yes
<nxvl> crimsun_: thnx
<crimsun_> mm, LTS strikes again.
<somerville32> :)
<joumetal> is there any suggestions how to test LTS upgrade. not yet of course.
<crimsun_> we run automated attempts at work
<crimsun_> joumetal: for something more concrete in the unclassified world, try svn co svn://svn.debian.org/vlosuts/vlosuts
 * StevenK grumbles about people filing syncs for his merges
<StevenK> I did the hard part, merging three packages from Debian, one of them base-files so that anjuta could actually install its Build-Depends, and then someone else files the sync. Bah!
<pwnguin> hey, what's a suitable DFSG license for game content?
<pwnguin> like music, models, etc
<crimsun_> pwnguin: e.g., CC-SA v3.0
<crimsun_> take a look at http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses#head-48e946e55f9c5d8595e5387a3546ba11a91dee03
<pwnguin> crimsun_: would an email to some debian list granting a recursive license be sufficent, or do you think it needs to be done at a website
<crimsun_> pwnguin: the source is definitive.
<pwnguin> the current and possibly last release is ambiguous
<crimsun_> pwnguin: if one feels that e-mail to a public [& archived] list is also necessary, feel free.
<pwnguin> I'm writing the author asking for clarification, and it would help if i could tell him what to do
<crimsun_> he simply needs to consent to license clarification (or relicensing).  You can then distribute the relevant portion of the response in the copyright file.
<crimsun_> (the latter part with his permission, which I presume shouldn't be a problem)
<pwnguin> ok
<geser> StevenK: have you already seen the NBS file for libglib1.2?
<freakabcd> err.. which package provides dh_make ?
<freakabcd> weird, i don't have dh_make in my path
<freakabcd> anyway, thanks for listening :)
<geser> StevenK: you can still ACK the anjuta sync request
<geser> freakabcd: dh-make
<rick_h__> quick question, dholbrach did the packaging class and there was a specific type of bug that was supposed to be small/easy to get into
<nxvl> why did some DD are so zealots?
<rick_h__> anyone have a hint on what it was that identified the bug type?
<pwnguin> nxvl: because the confirmation process encourages it
<metallikop> rick_h__: I'd like to know as well
<geser> rick_h__: you mean the bitesize tag?
<rick_h__> that might be it
<pwnguin> heh. the bitesize thing mostly means the bug itself is easily fixed. it might still take you a while to figure the whole process out. but at least fixing the bug will be simple ^_^
<pwnguin> if you're new, those are the things to hit up
<nxvl> pwnguin: heh
<nxvl> pwnguin: good one
<pwnguin> !bitesize
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bitesize - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<pwnguin> !bitesized
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bitesized - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<rick_h__> that is the one, thanks
<pwnguin> ubotu: bitesize is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<nxvl> pwnguin: remove the "edge" from the url
<nxvl> :D
<somerville32> :]
<LjL> and perhaps make the factoid a bit more explanatory
<nxvl> ubotu: bitesize is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<nxvl> !bitsize
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bitsize - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<nxvl> !bitesize
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bitesize - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<somerville32> You need special accesses
<nxvl> somerville32: yes, i was trying to see it pwnguin add it or not
<nxvl> :P
<LjL> and i'm not going to add the factoid until it actually explains something - clicking on that URL explains nothing to me tbh
<somerville32> You tell 'em girl!
<pwnguin> doh
<pwnguin> ubotu: bitesize is Bugs tagged trivially easy to fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<somerville32> You might want to change that again
<somerville32> Make it <reply> it whatever.
<pwnguin> im not very familiar with the bot
<pwnguin> you can fix it :P
<LjL> !bitesize is <reply> Bugs tagged trivially easy to fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<ubotu> But bitesize already means something else!
<Pici> !bitesize
<ubotu> Bugs tagged trivially easy to fix can be found here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<Pici> LjL: too slow :)
<LjL>  /kb pici
<somerville32> Bugs tagged trivially easy?
<pwnguin> yes
<somerville32> Is that.. legal use of the English language?
<pwnguin> things like a misleading string, or an incorrect .desktop
<pwnguin> well
<pwnguin> trivial can mean other things
<pwnguin> like inconsequential
<pwnguin> in fact, that's probably the actual definition
<somerville32> I might try: A list of bugs that are considered easy to fix and good for beginners to attempt can be found at:
<pwnguin> run with it, it's yours now
<somerville32> I don't have magic accesses powers anymores.
<LjL> !no bitesize is <reply> A list of bugs that are considered easy to fix and good for beginners to attempt can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<imbrandon> !whoami
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about whoami - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<pwnguin> does ubotu remember factoids across channels?
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> pwnguin, yes
<imbrandon> or on a per channel basis too
<imbrandon> it can do both
<pwnguin> which is default?
<imbrandon> accross channels
<somerville32> %whoami
<ubotu> I don't recognize you.
<somerville32> : (
<imbrandon> %whoami
<ubotu> imbrandon
<imbrandon> good
<pwnguin> back to DFSG campaigning
<imbrandon> pwnguin, instead of like !blah is blah you can do !blah#ubuntu-motu is blah or similar, been a long time since i have messed with editing the factoids
<imbrandon> there is a wiki somewhere that explains the commands, but then you still need editor access
<somerville32> This is true.
<freakabcd> ok, i dunno if i just had a hallucination..
<freakabcd> how do i build binary packages?
<freakabcd> is pbuilder the only option?
<imbrandon> freakabcd, no but its the cleanest option
<jdong> freakabcd: no, but it's the simplest "good" option
<persia> freakabcd: pbuilder and sbuild are the preferred tools to test-build before uploading.  debuild, dpkg-buildpackage, and several more manual methods may also be used locally.
<freakabcd> ok, but i want to build without using pbuilder. is this documented in the packaging guide doco?
<jdong> freakabcd: you can use the methods persia outlined (debuild / dpkg-buildpackage)
<imbrandon> probably not because its not a good idea most of the time
<persia> imbrandon: cleanest?  Wouldn't wanna-build feeding sbuild be "cleaner"?
<somerville32> pbuilder is pretty easy to setup
<jdong> freakabcd: however if you are targeting to get these packages into Ubuntu it's not frowned upon to test without pbuilder
<jdong> rather, it is frowned upon
<imbrandon> persia, hehe maybe but thats a pita for most to setup
<freakabcd> well, it is a small package and i have no hopes of getting it into ubuntu at this moment in time
<imbrandon> hell i still dident even get it working 100% right
<persia> imbrandon: Oh, I completely agree :)
<geser> imbrandon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots that wiki page? There is also a page with all factoids http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<jdong> freakabcd: if you just need to build it for personal reasons, you can use debuild or dpkg-buildpackage inside the source's directory
<jdong> that is the fastest way of getting the job done
<imbrandon> geser, yea, its just been a very long time since i used the editing commands :)
 * persia points freakabcd at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<freakabcd> is sbuild similar to pbuilder? i.e. sets up a minimal _distro_ ?
<imbrandon> freakabcd, yes, all build options will use a minimal env to build to get ensure the build deps are correct
<persia> freakabcd: Sortof.  sbuild relies on there being a different chroot system already in place (schroot is recommended).  pbuilder bundles it.  As jdong said, pbuilder is a little easier.  The buildds use sbuild.
<jdong> freakabcd: sbuild is for if you are setting up a build server or otherwise doing a LOT of builds where pbuilder is more for lighter usage
<jdong> freakabcd: sbuild takes longer to set up but is a bit more efficient than unpacking and destroying a a minimal Ubuntu install between every build
<jdong> pbuilder honestly is like 3 commands to set up... it's well worth the effort if you intend on building more than just a single package or two
<freakabcd> say i use debhelper to setup the initial src package. how much work is usually required to eventually get to the binary debs ?
<somerville32> You just type: pbuilder build <dsc file>
<persia> freakabcd: For a clean upstream, it's a quick review and edit of three files.  If it's less perfect, it can take weeks.
<pwnguin> ok fun problem: upstream tarball doesn't have a root folder
<freakabcd> i mean, from what i see it is just editing the copyright/control/changelog minimally and a little bit more work in rules
<pwnguin> tar xvzf dumps a lot of files in the working dir
<imbrandon> pwnguin, lol
<freakabcd> persia, my intention is not to get it into ubuntu repos at the moment
<pwnguin> imbrandon: funny, sure. so what should I do to solve it "correctly"
<persia> freakabcd: Ah.  In that case, it's a quick edit of three files.  A few minutes.
<imbrandon> pwnguin, ummm solve what, dpkg extracts the orig.tar.gz where it wishes anyhow no matter what the upstream tar says
<persia> imbrandon: Well, it can be confused, but it handles 90% of the cases :)
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for a MOTU to review my Package on REVU : I currently have 0 Advocates : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=462
<freakabcd> ok, thats what i wanted, sort of. I could have just built this src.tar.gz file myself (./configure && make &&ã¾ãããsãllãé¨tæ¤ãdã¨è² ããç¾½cå½±çæãå°¾æ ¹çµµlècanã¤ã³så¤lläºtã¨ã
<freakabcd> oh crap! sorry
<freakabcd> i went into the scim mode without noticing :(
<StevenHarperUK> lol thats a command I wouldnt want to type
<StevenHarperUK> Is it ok if I just cut n paste it :p
<freakabcd> heh, that is english. i said ...make && make install, but wanted to have some sort of package that other people (without any experience building any sort of package) could install and use the app
<freakabcd> StevenHarperUK, lol, sure try it out.
<freakabcd> it will show stars in your console!
<freakabcd> don;t believe me? try it out :p
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh I want tar ball first
<somerville32> freakabcd, That sounds like one of those scams to get their password :P
<freakabcd> somerville32, haha
<freakabcd> i will put up a notice though: Install at your own risk :D
<imbrandon> freakabcd, sure then if you are gonna distribute the deb you really need to use pbuilder
<imbrandon> this will ensure the package is consistant
<freakabcd> ok, for now. i still haven;t managed to build a binary deb for myself :(
<imbrandon> pbuilder build <blah>.dsc , then look in the results dir, it will be there
<somerville32> freakabcd, You could upload it to PPA
<StevenHarperUK> Did anyone hear about that new Trjon based as a Stripping game, it makes you (on windows) type the obfuscated text hidden in images to make it work, what its actually doing is getting the image security checkfrom sites like facebook and google and using you PC in the background to create new accounts and spam : made me chuckle.
<somerville32> Thats cleaver.
<freakabcd> wow, that is indeed clever
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh its a smart way to get peopel to do stuff, porn is always a great motive....
<StevenHarperUK> Not that I condone it
<freakabcd> i am surprised they didn;t make it a full fledged TypingTutor (tm) with *excellent* graphics
<freakabcd> :p
<StevenHarperUK> Are there any MOTU's reviewing today or are they all waiting for the 5th when its teh big REVU push?
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, I could review it but I'm not a MOTU
<jdong> ok, I'm gonna be slightly peeved if after 30 minutes of applying these patches to Azureus they cause it to crash.
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: feel free to do a review and email me anything you find
<somerville32> link?
<StevenHarperUK> its MYNAME@gmail.com
<StevenHarperUK> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=462
<somerville32> StevenHarper: Are you going to run for PM? :P
<StevenHarperUK> ah canadian PM jk Yeh?
<freakabcd> ok, grr.. a debian package already exists
<freakabcd> for the software i wanted to make a deb for
<StevenHarperUK> I was rather pleased to discover I share the same name as with the canadian PM
<somerville32> I wouldn't be
<somerville32> Plus he spells it differently
<freakabcd> bah, should i just install the debian deb? or compile the tar.gz or build the deb and then install? or build a deb and send to review?
<StevenHarperUK> ul Freakabcd, im sure t here are procedures to repackage stuff from debain
<freakabcd> grr..
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, It seems like you've been at this package for awhile :P
<jdong> O_O how come this patch's indentation is completely different from upstream?
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: its my first ever package : ther are lots of changes
<StevenHarperUK> somervill32: its also All my code
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: you see I made it ans wanted to share, so I have been learning Packaging
<StevenHarperUK>  somerville32: I do genuinely feel its ready now...
<Fujitsu> jdong: What are you doing to it?
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: I must admit it was in a right state on my first submit
<freakabcd> ok, it appears i have to try to make the deb myself.
<somerville32> The maintainer can be you, btw.
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: a comment above says it cant
<freakabcd> StevenHarperUK, what? you can;t be maintainer for your own code
<freakabcd> ?
<Fujitsu> If you put yourself as the maintainer, maintain it.
<StevenHarperUK> I quote : "You donât need to list yourself both in Maintainer and XSBC-Original-Maintainer. Iâm not sure if you should set yourself as Maintainer (and no XSBC-O-M) or set Ubuntu MOTU as Maintainer and yourself as XSBC-O-M. "
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Maintainer must be @ubuntu.com, but it could also be you, if you have such an address.
<jdong> Fujitsu: well doko made it pretty clear last time that he really wants those Fedora patches to Azureus on, even though there are clear indications from our bug report comments and from upstream that they are in part responsible for introducing the crash-at-splash-screen effect
<imbrandon> or @kubuntu.org :P
<StevenHarperUK> I dont have an @ubuntu.com address
<jdong> Fujitsu: so I figured I would give it a shot just so that I can say that I tried it but it caused a regression....
<Fujitsu> jdong: What does he have to do with anything?
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  *ubuntu*
<persia> Fujitsu: Important Java person?
<jdong> Fujitsu: he has scolded me twice about refusing to apply those patches
<jdong> and I'm scared
<StevenHarperUK> can I easily get an @ubuntu addess?
<Fujitsu> persia: Not sure how that affects it.
<imbrandon> StevenHarperUK, becomes a ubuntu member
<imbrandon> and you get one
<Fujitsu> It's just written in Java, and the patches don't affect the Javaness.
<StevenHarperUK> If you need anyone to check JAVA code I can help I am a Java come as a job.
<StevenHarperUK> imbrandon: How do I do that
<persia> StevenHarperUK: We've quite a few Java packages, and some have bugs
<imbrandon> !membership
<ubotu> Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<persia> !membership | StevenHarperUK
<ubotu> StevenHarperUK: please see above
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I code http://search.orange.co.uk in RL
<freakabcd> ok, i'm going to make my first package now. dunno if it is going to be ok. will someone be able to check it for me?
<StevenHarperUK> persia: that takes 1-2Million hits a night
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, Verbose should be commented out
<freakabcd> or do i have to do ...some stuff.. to check it myself?
<somerville32> in your debian/rules
<persia> StevenHarperUK: You're too AJAX-happy.  Epiphany complains when I try to close the page.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Blame the companies webtrends solution ; i hate it
<StevenHarperUK> persia : I have no choice
<jdong> Fujitsu: well, then I'll stick to the packaging the way it is now (i.e., working and not crashing) :)
<persia> jdong: If someone really wants patches, they could upload them...
<StevenHarperUK> persia : try the video search its a YOUTUBE 2.0 solution: the only people to use it n the world
 * Fujitsu finds that that feature of Epiphany can be a tad annoying at times with some sites.
<Fujitsu> persia: That's a good point.
<Fujitsu> And then they're in the changed-by, and... their problem.
 * persia likes it when there is actually data that might be lost
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, that's why I don't disable it.
<jdong> persia: agreed
<StevenHarperUK> persia: try it in Firefox : we fully support that
<Fujitsu> jdong: I find azureus to actually work and be a bit usable now! Much better than it used to be.
<StevenHarperUK>  !membership | StevenHarperU
<ubotu> StevenHarperU: Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, totally, I'm really happy that I can apt-get install azureus and it works :)
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, In debian/copyright you need to have a copyright statement for the actual package.
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, ie. The Debian packaging is (C) 2007, Cody A.W. Somerville <cody-somerville@ubuntu.com> and is licensed under the GPL, see above.
<StevenHarperUK> GPL V2 :p
<Fujitsu> jdong: It used to work after apt-getting... just crashy and slow and generally useless.
<cyberix> I'm looking for first sponsor for my pq package. I have fixed all problems that have been brought up. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<jdong> Fujitsu: in Gutsy it totally stopped working after apt-getting altogether; someone must've breathed on the GCJ stack ;-)
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, I remembered in Edgy it worked near-perfectly out of the box with GCJ (i.e. slow but didn't crash) and I was pretty impressed...
<jdong> but it just went downhill from there
<somerville32> Also, you should use dh_installdirs to create your directories not dh_install
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, ^^
<Fujitsu> I probably haven't used it since around then.
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: I dont use dh_install
<Fujitsu> Hey, looks like azureus -0ubuntu2 finally built.
<StevenHarperUK> somerville: are you checking the latest submit
<jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, I saw :)
<jdong> backport is already approved and awaiting archive guys to come back from UDS :)
<jdong> we're moving forward
<Fujitsu> jdong: Where coming back from UDS == going to AllHands?
<Fujitsu> (which is in the same place, isn't it?)
<somerville32> imbrandon, If you place just a directory in debian/install will it create it? And if so, should you place them there or in debian/dirs ?
<jdong> Fujitsu: way to burst my bubble of optimism :)
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, disregard my comment
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: do you mind if after you have finished I submit my package again and you confirm that its all correct?
<Fujitsu> jdong: That's my job.
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, I would be happy to.
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, Also, your changelog has no final newline.
<StevenHarperUK> ta
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: tell me when your done and want another build n upload
<somerville32> I'm building right now so that I can evaluate the binary package.
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: great, btw I obviously can make myself Maintainer until I get an @ubuntu address I have however humped  through all the hoops ( see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda )
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, E: easycrypt: menu-item-creates-new-root-section Applications /usr/share/menu/easycrypt:3
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: Thats the NEW debail Menu format
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: its correct to their new spec : all hardy stuff has to meet it
<somerville32> I wonder if the lintian and linda packages in Hardy have that
<somerville32> Make it easier to evaluate hardy packages
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu.html/ch3.html
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: yeh its confirmed that the gutsy ones throw nice red herrings :p
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: keeps you on your toes & tests your memory
<Fujitsu> somerville32: My lintian merge (uploaded and built yesterday) adds that check.
<Fujitsu> Erm, fixes that check.
<somerville32> chilling
<persia> So, who has the magic powers to install the new lintian on REVU?
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: great is that in the Hardy version then?
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: It is.
<imbrandon> persia, i can
<imbrandon> is there a new one ready ?
<persia> imbrandon: Would you?  That'd be great.
<Fujitsu> It would be nice to have that backported, probably.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yeah, Hobbsee uploaded it for me yesterday.
<persia> Fujitsu: How much "backport" does it need?
<Fujitsu> Particularly with the new menu stuff.
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: how you getting on? ready for a new upload yet?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, cool, can you give me a dsc url, i'll build and install it on sparky
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, I'm installing new version of lintian and linda :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Shouldn't need any source changes.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Sure, sec.
<StevenHarperUK> Somerville32: great I haven't done that yet
<persia> imbrandon: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/lintian/lintian_1.23.36ubuntu1.dsc
<Fujitsu> That's the one.
<jdong> are we backporting lintian?
<somerville32> Don't forget linda! :]
<Fujitsu> jdong: Why not?
<jdong> Fujitsu: sounds like fun, should I queue up a test build before heading out?
<persia> jdong: At least for REVU.  If you want to push it for -backports, that might make some people happy.
<imbrandon> jdong, atm i'm just backporting it localy on REVU
<persia> somerville32: Is there a new linda in hardy yet?
<Fujitsu> There are changes in the menu system, so it would be nice for Gutsy people to easily get it.
<jdong> imbrandon: ok, it might be worth pushing it out via backports anyway if all goes well
<Fujitsu> persia: There have been no hardy linda uploads.
<somerville32> persia, no :(
 * jdong issues prevu lp:lintian and heads out
<persia> Fujitsu: That's what I thought.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Thanks.
<jdong> sure thing
<imbrandon> well REVU is still feisty so i need to rebuild it
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I don't think you do, actually, but best to anyway.
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, All good :)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, well its a sparc too soo best to anyway
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It's arch: all.
<imbrandon> err true
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> still
<Fujitsu> Yeah, best to.
<persia> imbrandon: It's the right thing to do, even though it might not need to be done.
<jdong> ah crap I think I just found a prevu bug too :D
<Fujitsu> jdong: Yay!
<imbrandon> ok its building now
 * Fujitsu notes that sbuild for each distroseries with deb-src lines for new releases would function well as prevu.
<Fujitsu> Because you can sbuild package_version and it will look for it in its sources... hm..
<jdong> Fujitsu: prevu is a lot more trivial to set up though; and the Hardy version now doesn't rely on any deb-src lines if invoked with lp:
<Fujitsu> jdong: Aha.
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: ok i sec
 * persia likes diversity, as a means to demonstrate bugs in the default toolset
<jdong> Fujitsu: I'm using a simple LP scrape so that I can do things like "prevu lp:lintian" and it'll grab the Hardy lintian from LP
<jdong> Fujitsu: that way I don't have to apt-get update so frequently and wonder if I am up to date or not
<Fujitsu> jdong: Yep, and that'll be much easier soon.
<jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, when the real LP API comes out for doing this, I'll get rid of the nasty scrapejob :)
<Fujitsu> There'll be a +dsc or something that redirects to the .dsc, so it'll be trivial.
<persia> Fujitsu: Redirects to the a.u.c .dsc in the pool?
<Fujitsu> persia: The one in librarian, I think.
<Fujitsu> LP avoids referencing external stuff as much as possible.
<jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, right now the main problem is that the dsc is not in the same dir as the rest of the sources
 * persia hopes it is completely dget friendly
<Fujitsu> persia: That's the point of it, yes.
<Fujitsu> jdong: That's what I filed the bug about.
<jdong> I've make a quick lpget hackjob that is a UI clone of dget based on the tidbit from prevu
 * persia thanks Fujitsu for diligently watching LP progress
<jdong> ok, now I'm starving. foodtime
 * Fujitsu files too many Launchpad bugs.
<persia> Fujitsu: If you're not filing all of them, it's not too many :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Heh.
<Fujitsu> I was rather surprised when a number of my last batch were marked High and a couple cherrypicked.
<Fujitsu> I thought they were trivial things that would get Low at best, but apparently not.
<persia> Fujitsu: Why?  One presumes you're getting good at filing clear bugs by now, and are a representative of a reasonable portion of the user community
<Fujitsu> True.
 * persia points at http://ubuntu.linuxdc.it/ftbfs/ as a target for people looking for somthing to do, with props to DktrKranz
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: its there http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=521
<imbrandon> ok persia / Fujitsu , new lintian installed on REVU
<imbrandon> imbrandon@sparky:~$ dpkg -l|grep lintian
<imbrandon> ii  linda                                      0.3.24                                     Debian package checker, not unlike lintian
<imbrandon> ii  lintian                                    1.23.36ubuntu1                             Debian package checker
<imbrandon> imbrandon@sparky:~$
<persia> imbrandon: Thank you.
<imbrandon> np
<imbrandon> is there a new linda too ?
<persia> imbrandon: Not yet,
<imbrandon> k
<nxvl> i have a doubt about LG bug #137993
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137993 in mplayerplug-in "mozilla-mplayer unnecessarily depends on gecko browsers" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137993
<persia> Anyone with a package pending on REVU: lintian has been updated.  Please grab the hardy lintian (backport in progress) to check locally, as there will likely be adjustments necessary for REVU day (starting in ~11 hours)
<persia> nxvl: What is the nature of the doubt?
<imbrandon> persia, i steped away for a moment, did jdong start the backport ? if not i'll do it
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, Looks good to me. I'd get imbrandon to look at it now
<persia> imbrandon: He said he was, and found a bug in prevu.  I don't know the current status.
<nxvl> i have talk to the debian maintainer and he/she has told me that it will be resolved on the next upstream release which will be released any day from now on, should i fix or wait?
<nxvl> btw, where is the roadmap for hardy? is it already up there?
<imbrandon> persia,  k
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: thanks a million : having people who know about packaging review it is the way I have got this far
<persia> nxvl: At this point in the cycle (archive open - debian import freeze) adding a note in the bug about the conversation with Debian is best, and wait.  After Debian Import Freeze, it7s often easier to just fix it.
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, I'm not expert :) It appears you've done a good job though.
<somerville32> s/not/no
<persia> !scheudle | nxvl
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about scheudle - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<persia> !schedule | nxvl
<ubotu> nxvl: Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<nxvl> ubotu: thnx
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about thnx - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<nxvl> :D
<persia> What!  That should point to the development schedule in -motu
 * nxvl hugs persia
<imbrandon> persia, i can make a adjustment for the factoid for just in here
<nxvl> heh, there is information until dapper, not feisty or gutsy
<nxvl> :P
<imbrandon> give me a few though, its dinner time
 * persia further grumbles that http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatIsubuntu/releases doesn't talk about Feisty, Gutsy, or Hardy: where do I file a bug?
<imbrandon> persia, against the ubuntu-website product in LP
<imbrandon> so the website team can fix it
<persia> imbrandon: Cool.  Could you point it at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule ?
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks.
<imbrandon> persia, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website
<persia> bug #159852
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159852 in ubuntu-website "http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatIsubuntu/releases should mention Feisty, Gutsy, and Hoary" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159852
<imbrandon> persia, btw or you could just poke one of ..... https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-website/+members
<imbrandon> :)
<nxvl> what is this Developer Sprint thing?
<persia> imbrandon: No point poking people.  They are doing stuff.  They should look at the bugs :)
<StevenHarperUK> somerville32: Thanks now I'm off I appreciate your help - cya
<somerville32> StevenHarperUK, Have a good one.
<persia> nxvl: Some developers get together to improve communication in an effort to get everything fixed (or at least well planned) as the deaadline for features draws near.
<nxvl> persia: like UDS?
<ajmitch> UDS is more about planning
<persia> nxvl: Not really.  Fewer people.  More hacking, less meetings.  Less of a schedule.  It's just that putting people in a room can be more efficient than IRC.
<nxvl> and how can i go? paying the trip?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-04
<ajmitch> people generally aren't sponsored to go to developer sprints, it's more of a distro team thing, iirc
<nxvl> mmm
<Fujitsu> AllHands is Canonical-only.
<Fujitsu> And I think that one in January is the same.
<nxvl> so, the canonical employes are the only one sponsored?
<persia> nxvl: Don't worry about the sprint.  If, at some point in the future, you need to be there, you will be clearly told to come.
<ajmitch> nxvl: I wouldn't say 'sponsored' so much as it's part of their job
<persia> Fujitsu: Are you sure?  I know AllHands is limited, but I thought the sprints sometimes included others, when they were very active with targeted components.
<somerville32> I wish I worked for Canonical.
<persia> somerville32: There is an employment page...
<cbx33> somerville32, heheh
<cbx33> somerville32, what makes you say that?
<Fujitsu> persia: Well, they're nothing like UDS.
<cbx33> Hey Fujitsu
<cbx33> hi all
<somerville32> I want one of the magical employment opportunities some people seem to get - like Mark asking you personally to join Canonical.
<Fujitsu> Hi cbx33.
<persia> Fujitsu: No.  Nothing like UDS.  It's only people who need to be there for the target features.
<nxvl> persia: i'm sure of it, but i want to know everything about ubuntu developing, i'm only curious
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> so, the spring is like a debconf
<nxvl> more or less
<somerville32> Spring is a magical time but it isn't quite like a debconf
<persia> nxvl: Well, again no.  Debconf has talks, and lots of people.  The sprint is small, has no presentations, and is just hacking on the targets.
<nxvl> mmm, but UDS + Sprint is like a debconf
<nxvl> :D
<persia> nxvl: Well, there's hacking at UDS, but maybe.
 * nxvl need to get some sleep, to much non-sense speaking :D
<nxvl> it isn't a good thing being so workaholic
 * jdong looks into some docs on how to write manpages
 * jdong is being a good boy and writing some manpages for prevu to shut up lintian
<persia> jdong: You're listening to lintian when fixing prevu to fix lintian?
<jdong> persia: lol, yes :)
<persia> jdong: Just remember to repeat the cycle with the new lintian :)
<jdong> persia: today's been a circular kinda day
<jdong> persia: it felt quite weird to type prevu prevu :)
<persia> heh
<somerville32> : }
<imbrandon> someone should write a book for lulu "Ubuntu: The Making of" hehe
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> persia, btw when i was tlaking aobut poking someone it was more of a joke as I'm on that list as well as others that come in here
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  I should have looked.  Are you fixing my bug?
<imbrandon> persia, hehe well i only have access to *some* parts of the domain, unfortunately that is not one of them
<imbrandon> but i did poke nuzum about it
<persia> imbrandon: Oh well.  We'll leave it for someone with the appropriate pixie dust then.
<persia> Thanks.
<somerville32> How can I tell what version of linux I'm running?
<imbrandon> uname -a
<imbrandon> is the linux kernel version
<persia> somerville32: /etc/lsb-release is easy to parse
<persia> Err.  For "which version of ubuntu am I running"
<imbrandon> if you mean what "distro/release" then `lsb_release -a`
<persia> uname -r also spits just a string, which is handy for scripts.
<somerville32> Can I fix this?
<somerville32> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/137439
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137439 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Dell XPS-Z irq problems: 2.6.22 kernel won't boot without 'irqpoll' option" [Medium,Triaged]
<imbrandon> somerville32, sure you can fix any bug you feel you are qualified to do so, but that particualr one since it has to do with the kernel i would cordinate with #ubuntu-kernel and BenC
<imbrandon> BenC == lead ubuntu kernel guy
<somerville32> It is tagged with bitesize
<persia> somerville32: I don't see the tag...
<somerville32> At the top?
<jdong> somerville32: the kernel stuff is all managed in git too, best either prepare a patch for them to look over it
<imbrandon> right, as i said, i dont discourage you from doing so but not all "bitesize" bugs are nessesarly MOTU ones, this case its a -kernel one
<persia> somerville32: Ah.  It moved.  Thanks.
<somerville32> There isn't really any way I can test the fix :/
<persia> somerville32: Well, you could order some hardware :)
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> Will ubuntu pay for it? :P
<imbrandon> yea kernel hacking is quite hardware specific at times
<persia> somerville32: I doubt it.  You might also check to see if the bug exists on the Dell bugtracker: there may be someone chasing it there, or someone willing to test.
<imbrandon> somerville32, for an un-experinced kernel developer? i doubt it, but i've seen stranger things
<Fujitsu> Most of the Dell bugs are private.
<imbrandon> also you could try to fix it and have the person reporting the bug test it
<persia> Fujitsu: The dell bugtracker bugs?
<Fujitsu> persia: On launchpad.net/dell, yeah.
<somerville32> Hmm... I'm only getting 600kb/s :(
<imbrandon> only?
<somerville32> Well, close to 700kb/s
<persia> somerville32: From where to where?
<somerville32> launchpad to Canada
<imbrandon> lately i've been happy to get 100kb/s
<persia> somerville32: Ah.  That seems about normal.  I usually can't pull more than about 500 (but my latency is higher)
<somerville32> Maybe I should upgrade to ultra
<somerville32> What should I be getting with 7mb/s and 8mb/s?
<persia> somerville32: 7MB/s maxes out at around 700 (11 bits/byte with CRC checking)
<somerville32> So that is about right
<persia> somerville32: http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board?board.id=sw_linux might also be a place to check.
<pwnguin> man, soulfu is pretty deep
<pwnguin> it even has pets...
<persia> pwnguin: So, when can I apt-get it?
<pwnguin> persia: when the copyright holder clarifies the license
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: You got it built?
<pwnguin> yea
<Fujitsu> Nice.
<imbrandon> what is it ?
<pwnguin> nethack / zelda / cartoon rendering
<pwnguin> 3d
<somerville32> Ooo
<Fujitsu> It looks very nice.
<imbrandon> nice
<pwnguin> theres a debian itp
<pwnguin> 60 days ago
<somerville32> Any jave programmers in here?
<somerville32> erm... java
 * pwnguin has written compiler rules to translate into java bytecode
<pwnguin> but java's pretty huge
<persia> somerville32: There are usually several.  What's the question?
<somerville32> I was wondering what the Java team does.
<pwnguin> well, icedtea is out, i imagine they're working on getting that in shape for hardy
<persia> somerville32: It's not very noisy, they tend to coordinate through the regular communication channels.  Just a group of people who try to keep Java in a sane state, and maintain VM compatibility (if possible)
<persia> pwnguin: icedtea shipped in gutsy :)
<jdong> persia: on i386 :)
<persia> jdong: Well, it shipped for lots of archs.  I'm not saying anything about how it works.
<pwnguin> "into shape"
<pwnguin> err, "in shape for hardy"
<jdong> persia: it shipped for i386 and amd64
<jdong> persia: and only works in i386 :)
 * persia retreats in the face of overwhelming knowledge and correct speech
<jdong> persia: haha :D
<somerville32> Hmm...
<somerville32> This is a bit more difficult then I thought
<pwnguin> im reading the dh_installdocs man page, and it isnt clear: does it read debian/docs and install those in /usr/share/doc/<pkgname>?
<StevenK> pwnguin: Right
<somerville32> Does anyone know where in the linux source package they have a nice easy config file that I just have to append irqpoll to a line?
<pwnguin> imbrandon: do you even have access to an openGL capable box anymore?
<imbrandon> pwnguin, not currently, i will very soon, looking at buying a new MBP
<imbrandon> in the next 2 weeks
<StevenK> Didn't you say that two weeks ago?
<imbrandon> StevenK, nah
<imbrandon> StevenK, 2 weeks ago i have my core2duo working perfect hehe
<imbrandon> wasent in the market for a new box
<StevenK> And then what happened?
<imbrandon> heh well i dident have the "shutdown at X temp" on in the bios and a poer cord decided to stop the cpu fan spinage, frying the chip/board and ram
<imbrandon> power*
<imbrandon> in other words , my own dumb ass fault
<StevenK> Self-assembled?
<StevenK> Ahh
<imbrandon> yea, i built it about a year ago
<StevenK> You know, I check for things like that before putting the case back on. :-)
<imbrandon> hehe well NORMALY i do too
<somerville32> Did you mean poer or poor?
<imbrandon> power*
<imbrandon> e.g. a molex connector cable from the PSU
<somerville32> Okay. I fail.
<somerville32> rm -rf linux
<pwnguin> i think that was more than two weeks ago
<imbrandon> well about 3 or so
<imbrandon> now
<persia> So, for the xine-lib transition, I'm looking at python-pyxine.  From what I can tell, it's just library bindings, so it's hard to identify as console or X.  Any opinions on using "libxine1-console | libxine1-x | libxine1 (<< 1.1.8-2)" as the frontend dependency, or does it perhaps not need one?
<imbrandon> hrm the frontend dep i would default to the -x one but seems sane
<persia> imbrandon: I'm actually fairly tempted by not adding a front-end dep, as presumably the program depending on python-pyxine would have a dependency on the appropriate front-end, but I'm not sure if that would tend to break things.
<persia> e.g. perhaps lsongs should depend on libxine1-console | libxine1 (<< 1.1.8-2)
<imbrandon> hrm true
<pwnguin> hey, whats the build dep for open gl?
<pwnguin> libgl1-mesa-dev?
<Fujitsu> !find GL.h
<ubotu> Found: glchess
<Fujitsu> Wrong.
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> maybe if i knew the command to just list the build deps of a package
<Fujitsu> !find GL/gl.h
<pwnguin> apt-cache showsrc
<persia> pwnguin: grep-dctrl
<ubotu> Package/file gl/gl.h does not exist in gutsy
<pwnguin> libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev shows up in a few ive found
 * persia is annoyed that someone decided the GL transition was complete, and deleted the excellent Wiki page explaining what to do, and why
<LaserJock> I wondered about that as well
<LaserJock> we should archive the transition instructions
<pwnguin> why would you ever delete a page?
<LaserJock> because we get too much junk
<LaserJock> and people get confused
<somerville32> Is this a page on w.u.c?
<LaserJock> it was
<persia> somerville32: It was about a year ago, but it's not now
<somerville32> Just get them to undelete it?
<Fujitsu> Isn't a deleted page deleted on Mon?
<Fujitsu> *Moin
<somerville32> Thats not what Cory told me.
<LaserJock> I think that'd take sysadmin power if it's even still around
<Fujitsu> archive.org?
<imbrandon> yea the wayback machine rocks, as well as google cache
<pwnguin> really if a page was ever useful, it shouldnt be deleted, but annotated at best
<LaserJock> pwnguin: well obviously somebody didn't think it was useful ;-)
<pwnguin> "<!> this page contains outdated technical information"
<LaserJock> persia: it is odd that you'd find a package that hasn't transitioned
<nenolod> Fujitsu, pwnguin, -- in libprojectM i have libgl1-dev | libgl-dev
<pwnguin> the package exist yet
<Fujitsu> That sounds wrong.
<nenolod> oh, wait, no
<persia> pwnguin: There was an effort about 6 or 7 months ago to clean up all the library transition pages: we used to list all the packages on the wiki, and use that to claim / report done.  Most of it was useless, as Debian has caught up.  This case is special.
<nenolod> libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev
<nenolod> sorry.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that sounds better.
<pwnguin> nenolod: thats what i went with
<nenolod> pwnguin, yeah, it seems to be correct
<nenolod> pwnguin, same for libglu
<LaserJock> we should have some sort of archive page/namespace
<Fujitsu> You'd think so.
 * persia wonders why libGL isn't listed on http://wiki.debian.org/OngoingTransitions, even in the "Completed" section
<pwnguin> dont need libglu
<Fujitsu> persia: Ongoing and completed sound mutually exclusive.
<persia> Fujitsu: You're not familiar with Debian then.
<LaserJock> ah bugger, the lack of script hosting comes up again :/
<persia> Fujitsu: Rather, because of the nature of the release management process, and because of the release cycle, nothing gets removed from that page until every affected package is fixed in stable, even if there's nothing to do.
<Fujitsu> persia: Ah, right.
 * somerville32 wonders what it would be like to develop Ubuntu with a dial-up modem.
<LaserJock> painful
<persia> somerville32: If you had someone shipping you daily update CDs, not so bad.  If not, you're restricted to only a couple packages, as otherwise the dependencies will ruin you.
 * somerville32 hugs his cable modem.
<minghua> persia: I seriously doubt that wiki.d.o page is still the main source, it seems abandoned to me.
<somerville32> LaserJock, Are you a core-dev?
<LaserJock> yep
<somerville32> Splendid.
<persia> minghua: Ah.  Do you have a better site?
 * imbrandon hides
<LaserJock> heh
<minghua> persia: No.  Maybe ask on #debian-release (on OFTC)?
 * persia suggests pwnguin might get a real answer by following minghua's suggestion
<pwnguin> what was my question?
<minghua> persia, pwnguin: In case of mesa, it may be also a good idea to ask on #debian-x (or whatever the Xorg team's channel is).
<persia> #xorg-devel?
<pwnguin> if debian wanted to talk to me they wouldnt have run away to OFTC
<persia> Anyone have a spare close-brace?
<minghua> I meant Debian's Xorg packaging team, of course.
 * Fujitsu hands persia a }
 * persia thanks Fujitse
 * Fujitsu wonders why his trailing 'u' has been substituted on a couple of occasions, and why persia didn't have a }
<persia> Fujitsu: Because
<minghua> persia: Actually, I just remembered that you can get your "}" from scim. :-)
<persia> Fujitsu: Because 1) My fingers confuse 'u' and 'e' (both center digit), and I'm lousy at using <TAB>, and 2) Because Ubuntu X doesn't like jp106
<persia> minghua: Really?  How?
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<minghua> persia: It requires you to remember that }'s unicode is U+007D, then you can use the "Rawcode" IM engine.
<persia> minghua: Thanks.  7D shouldn't be that hard to remember.
<minghua> Alternatively you can get it from gucharmap, which requires you to remember its unicode description "closing curly bracket".
<minghua> However it seems you have plenty of } supply on IRC. :-)
 * persia celebrates an endless supply of }}}}}}}}}}}}...
<persia> minghua: Usually by prompting.  join/parts feeds me lots of ']'.
<minghua> persia: I meant "whenever you ask for a }, someone will give it to you".
<somerville32> soren, for https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/117064 I would just patch abiword to ensure that directory exists and if not create it on start-up?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117064 in abiword "~/.Abisuite/AbiWord-2.4/plugins not created during install" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<somerville32> stupid auto-nick
<pwnguin> irssi has a c0ders theme
<pwnguin> turns irc into C/java-ish looking code ^_^
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> pwnguin: screenshot?
<pwnguin> http://irssi.org/themefiles/c0ders.png
<imbrandon> eclipse? heh
<pwnguin> i wish
<_16aR_> back
<pwnguin> eclipse terminals dont do color
<_16aR_> question : what is th differences between .files and .install ?
<_16aR_> .install are used by dh_install ?
<persia> _16aR_: Yes.  .files should only be used secretly during the build, and you should never see it.
<_16aR_> oh
<_16aR_> I've just opened the source package of libgdal1 and I found .files in the debian/ dir
<_16aR_> is it correct ?
<_16aR_> It seems it is not
<persia> _16aR_: Usually not, but I'm not familiar with the libgda1 packaging.
<_16aR_> from what I've understood of this package: instead of using a .install, it uses .files which references which files should be in archive. (it was like usr/lib/libgdal1.4.0.so)
<imbrandon> i'm guessing CPC's cant be purchased ?
<joejaxx> cpc's?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I don't think so, at least not yet if you aren't a 3rd world country
<imbrandon> classmate pc's
<minghua> The only CPC I know is Communist Party of China...
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we call them CMPCs
<LaserJock> that might help minghua out ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, :( that sucks
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it's pretty similar to OLPC, they haven't had them for sale for long
<minghua> I thought you can buy OLPC now?
<minghua> You'll have to buy two and get one, but still.
<imbrandon> CMPC running a full OS seems better imho
<LaserJock> minghua: now yes
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, yes they run Windows XP
<LaserJock> but the RAM and hard drive space are a bit tricky
<imbrandon> i was thinking a Real OS like *nix
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i think you can get linux as an option
<LaserJock> well, thats tricky too
<imbrandon> or edubuntu like orga is pictured with at UDS :)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: yes, I know, I'm developing it ;-)
 * Fujitsu was sure he saw some CMPC specs for UDS.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :D
<LaserJock> helping anyway
<LaserJock> right now edubuntu on them is a bit sketchy
<LaserJock> ogra's done a lot of cool work on them
<LaserJock> xchat is sure a  bugger on them
<imbrandon> http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/album/uds-gutsy/PICT0422web.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
<joejaxx> that reminds me i need to email RichEd
<LaserJock> I can't change any of the preferences
<LaserJock> becuase I can't hit the "OK" button
<LaserJock> it's off screen
<joejaxx> the crazy thing is
<joejaxx> compiz runs on that
<joejaxx> LOL
<somerville32> Hit alt and click it and drag?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: oli had them running compiz via LTSP in 1 day at Sevilla
<LaserJock> joejaxx: yeah, it works fine
<joejaxx> LaserJock: that is crazy :P
<imbrandon> joejaxx, is KDrive in xorg tree or only xserver tree ?
<LaserJock> somerville32: doesn't work
<LaserJock> joejaxx: why?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahaha rockin
<LaserJock> it's just a fairly normal laptop, except it doesn't have a hard drive
<Fujitsu> How much flash does it have?
<LaserJock> 256MB RAM and 2GB drive
<LaserJock> and an SD slot
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<LaserJock> there's no swap
<Fujitsu> What does it have in the way of connectivity?
<LaserJock> which really makes XP bite on 256MB of RAM
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ralink wireless
<pwnguin> psh
<LaserJock> and an ethernet port
<pwnguin> i can run linux on a nintendo ds
<imbrandon> i can on my ipod too that dosent mean its useable as a lappy ;)
<somerville32> You can run linux on a DS?
<LaserJock> the specs are no problem for linux
<LaserJock> it's things like not having a hard drive
<pwnguin> somerville32: yes. dslinux.org
<pwnguin> #dslinux on freenode
<joejaxx> imbrandon: xserver
<persia> pwnguin: What do you use as a keyboard for the DS?  Do both screens work as a single display, or are they considered dual?
<imbrandon> ugh and we dont even build xserver on debian/ubuntu yet do we
<pwnguin> the bottom screen is a touchpad
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i think we do partially for Xephyr
<pwnguin> they hacked together a touchscreen driver and on screen keyboard display
<persia> LaserJock: No hard drive isn't that bad, as long as you have > 256MB Flash.  It's just slow (I have a 64MB RAM 128MB Flash laptop laying around somewhere)
<LaserJock> persia: well yes, but there's a lot of work to get everything to work right
<persia> pwnguin: Cool.
<persia> LaserJock: Especially starting from the fairly massive Ubuntu base :)
<LaserJock> yes
<pwnguin> persia: fairly. if i had a different cart i could probably ssh with it
<LaserJock> we stuck Edubuntu on it
<joejaxx> imbrandon: http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/x11/xserver-xephyr
<LaserJock> so we had OO.o, Firefox, compiz, etc.
<LaserJock> but we're gonna have adjust some things
 * persia imagines the OOM being less then entirely pleased
<LaserJock> OO.o takes *forever* to load
<LaserJock> but MS Office starts fine
 * ogra looks up (slightly drunk)
<LaserJock> seemed kinda weird
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why would you run OOo on there? That's just silly.
<LaserJock> ogra: go back to bed/drinking
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: because it's there and you need office software
<imbrandon> google docs ftw
<LaserJock> it works pretty ok
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Right, but it runs badly on anything.
<LaserJock> nah
<Fujitsu> I wonder how Abiword/Gnumeric would go.
<LaserJock> well, that's the next step ;-)
<LaserJock> and perhaps ditching Firefox
<LaserJock> ogra: imbrandon wants a couple CMPCs :-)
<imbrandon> joejaxx, hrm that seems to be part of xorg-server package
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That sounds good.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: first step is to get a working OS on there ;-)
<imbrandon> ogra, how can i convince canonical i need to help with the CMPC's :P
<LaserJock> imbrandon: go get a couple of the $200 walmart computers ;-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: their site is down
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i have one on order :)
<joejaxx> thinkgos.something that is
<LaserJock> why oh why?!?
<joejaxx> i have no idea
<joejaxx> but i have the iso mirrored
<LaserJock> I don't think I'd waste a penny on that stuff
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i already have a few C7 based systems, i really like VIA Proc's
<joejaxx> a via 1.5 with 2gb is not bad
<imbrandon> imbrandon.com runs off a 1.5ghz C7 with 512 MB ram :)
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/phpsysinfo/
<imbrandon> ( Could use a bit more ram for it though )
 * LaserJock wanders away to drool over some macs
<imbrandon> heh
<davidam> hi!
<somerville32> Hi! :)
<davidam> I'm writing my first debian package and I've a question:
<davidam> what copyright must I write in the copyright debian/copyright?
<davidam> the package copyright or the software to be packaged copyright?
<somerville32> The copyright for the software you are packaging as well as the copyright for the package.
<LaserJock> davidam: both is good
<davidam> mmm
<davidam> but I don't understand how
<minghua> davidam: You must have the package's copyright there.  It's strongly encouraged to have the debian packaging's copyright there, too.
<davidam> for instance in lua-mode
<davidam> apt-get source lua-mode
<davidam>  cd lua-mode-20061208/debian/
<davidam> more copyright
<davidam> I can see that it's licensed under gpl, but I'm not sure if we're speaking about the package or about the software
<somerville32> Both
<davidam> can you show me some example where there are one license to the software and another one to the package?
<somerville32> Sure thing.
<somerville32> Check out PyNeighborhood
<somerville32> or Catfish
<davidam> ok, thank you very much :-)
<somerville32> No problem.
<_16aR_> Hello
<_16aR_> herm ... back
<_16aR_> I've got a library which can be splitted into 5 parts
<minghua> There is always http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat in case of uncertainty.
<_16aR_> but each parts use a shared header file...
<_16aR_> if I put this header in each package, they will conflicts
<_16aR_> and if I let it, it won't work ...
<_16aR_> I've thought about creating 1 package for this file, and make each "independant" package depends on this one
<_16aR_> does it seem correct ?
<minghua> _16aR_: How exactly "won't work"?
<_16aR_> compilation with the -dev package will fail
<davidam> minghua: thanks :)
<_16aR_> since the header will be missing
<davidam> _16aR_: hello
<_16aR_> hello davidam
<_16aR_> minghua: if I put all in 1 package, the issue is solved ... But we lose the versatility
<_16aR_> minghua: did you understand my problem ? Or weren't I clear ? I may have explained it bad
<minghua> _16aR_: Well, you can always put the header in a separate package.  I also don't see it a big versatility loss if all -dev files are put into one package.
<_16aR_> it is since it must depends on all non -dev package
<_16aR_> so you have to get the whole library instead of little part of it
<minghua> Depends on how large the individual packges are, I think.
<_16aR_> I think they shouldn't be large
<_16aR_> less than 400 k each .so
<minghua> Then again, my words doesn't really mean anything.  You should ask the MOTU who is mentoring you, or an archive admin (if you already have a concrete package).
<_16aR_> I don't have any MOTU mentoring me at the moment
<imbrandon> hrm joejaxx i think i have a patch almost ready to make Xvesa ( KDrive ) build and install , you said you had permission to do it?
<imbrandon> from who ?
<joejaxx> i do not remember i would have to grep logs
<joejaxx> this was a while ago
<joejaxx> beginning of gutsy
<imbrandon> joejaxx, cool ok, well its just some trivial changes to the xserver-xorg package as it already builds KDrive servers, all i need to do is make the .install and .manpage files
<persia> _16aR_: The basic rule of thumb is to try to avoid too many binary packages whilst not depending on lots of libraries users don't need.  If you have separate -kde and -gnome versions, these should be split.  If the libraries are small, and don't have a lot of dependencies, splitting isn't so important.
<imbrandon> no idea why we dident just have them before now
<joejaxx> imbrandon: oh ok
<_16aR_> persia: all right
<imbrandon> joejaxx, i'm testing now, if it works i'll make a patch and upload to a PPA
<imbrandon> and start poking some X people
<joejaxx> ok
<_16aR_> damnit I was getting headache on how to manage them
<_16aR_> because lots of .install .dirs .links etc are really a pain in the neck to manage
<_16aR_> rm -rf * ^^
<minghua> It's only natural to have headaches if you choose a library as your first package. :-P
<_16aR_> minghua: that's my 5th package
<_16aR_> 5th library
<_16aR_> my head gonna explode :p
<joejaxx> imbrandon: hopefully it does not build in a whole bunch of depends
<_16aR_> Just kidding, it was a lot of work, but I've learned a lot. That's fair :D
<persia> _16aR_: When working with libraries and annoying package splits, I tend to find it easiest to do a little each day: when I get too annoyed, I do something else for a while, and come back to it.
<imbrandon> joejaxx, it dosent , Xeyphr already uses all the same depends, hell it even has --enable-kdrive already in the config
<imbrandon> just no .install file for it
<_16aR_> persia: that's what I'm doing ... I've begun packagaging delta3D for 6 month now
<_16aR_> juste before feisty
<persia> _16aR_: Aha.  Well, in that case you'll want to just keep at it.  Thanks for your patience.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: ok
<_16aR_> (and since delta3d has a bunch of deps unmet in ubuntu, I had to package it myself ^^)
<joejaxx> well that is disappointing
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> i thought that would be the package that would have gotten me into motu
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> oh fun pbuilder-dist creates the folders locally that is great
<imbrandon> joejaxx, hehe
<_16aR_> hopefully, lots of bugs from deps already in previous ubuntu version have been corrected. But I did the job nonetheless until the bugs were fixed :p
<joejaxx> imbrandon: care to look at a merge i did?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~joejaxx/ubuntu/merges/flwm_1.02-2ubuntu1.MERGE.debdiff
<imbrandon> joejaxx, sure give me a moment
<joejaxx> ok
<minghua> I would like another MOTU's opinion to make sure I've rejected bug #159871 correctly.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159871 in gdal "libgdal.so symlink is missing" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159871
<persia> minghua: I tend to investigate a bit more.  Sometimes the -dev symlink is missing because someone forgot to add it.  "There must be a reason" doesn't explain much.
<minghua> persia: I made sure /usr/lib/libgdal1.4.0.so file exists (I assume that's a correct symlink).  Feel free to change it back to new.
<persia> minghua: Right.  Now I have to investigate the libgdal changelogs.  Are you sure you don't want to do it?
<minghua> persia: No I don't.  I tend not to touch too much the packages I don't use.
<minghua> I only did it because it's a MOTU science package and I got the bugmail.
<persia> minghua: OK.  It's just that without the investigation, the bug comment isn't useful, and _16aR_could use a fix if it is indeed wrong.
<minghua> (and I know MOTU science lacks manpower in bug triaging)
 * Fujitsu apologises for not having much time for working on that lately.
<minghua> persia: Oh so that's _16aR_'s report.  My understanding is he can't use -lgdal to link, I believe that's not gdal's problem and said so.
<persia> No, it's a real bug: "Moved to libgdal1-dev package, which allows rebuilds of dependent packages without source changes. It is currently superfluous changing the -dev package at every new release because we do not support many different versions of the gdal lib."
<persia> (from 1.4.0-1)
<_16aR_> minghua: yes, that's exactly the problem, delta3d used -lgdal to link, and it was missing. That's why I thought it could be a bug
<minghua> persia: You mean the file should be named as /usr/lib/libgdal.so.1 and /usr/lib/libgdal.so instead?  What is the current SONAME?
<persia> _16aR_: That's a fairly simple issue.  Where's the patch?
<Fujitsu> O_o
<Fujitsu> configure: error: "" flavoured geckos aren't tasty enough!
<Fujitsu> Thanks Epiphany.
<persia> heh
<imbrandon> lpia arch on PPA's ?
<minghua> Fujitsu: Go get some spice. :-P
<imbrandon> when did we get those ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: A couple of days ago when another 7 buildds appeared.
<LaserJock> yesterday or the day before
<imbrandon> nice
<LaserJock> lamont got them fixed up
<Fujitsu> Have they caught up yet?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i dont think so
<minghua> _16aR_: I understood what you said.  I am still not convinced by persia that there is a problem.
<imbrandon> what is a lpia ( i know what the acronim stands for ) but i mean in real world
<imbrandon> phones? cmpc ?
<joejaxx> samsun q1?
<joejaxx> samsung*
<_16aR_> minghua: I'm not sure either
<persia> minghua: There is an unversioned -dev library that doesn't support unversioned linking.  How is this not a problem?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It's -mobile. Internet tablets and the like, I presume.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: cmpc uses i386
<imbrandon> now if we could just have ppc buildd's
<joejaxx> yeah it is ubuntu-mobile
<imbrandon> LaserJock, lpia is x86 iirc , just low power
<persia> imbrandon: It's an artificial architecture for when you care lots about power and space.  In the future, it may be a branched architecture with better power calls, etc. (like ARM already has)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Xen doesn't work properly on powerpc at the moment :(
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm still a bit confused
<imbrandon> low power intel arch
<joejaxx> imbrandon: does not canonical have POWER5 buildd's?
<minghua> persia: If it uses pkg-config (which it doesn't seem to do), I don't see what the problem is.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, but OpenVZ does and would probably work better than xen imho
<LaserJock> there's mobile chips and then mobile mobile
<persia> minghua: If it used pkg-config, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.
<minghua> persia: You can run "pkg-config --libs gdal", and it gives you -lgdal1.4.0 (or whatever the version will be), it works fine.
<_16aR_> how can I leave a pbuilder session without saving changes ?
<imbrandon> exit
<_16aR_> (I'm logged in my pbuilder session to test gdal package, but I don't want to keep it installed)
<imbrandon> pbuilder by default dosent save it
<imbrandon> you have to pass --save-after-login for it to save
<_16aR_> all right
<_16aR_> Thanks
<imbrandon> when you run pbuilder login
<minghua> persia: Well, it does use gdal-config (or at least ship it in libgdal-dev), so I'm still not convinced.
<persia> minghua: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html#id249952 only says "should", but still...
<minghua> Not everybody agrees with dancer's library packaging guide anyway...
<imbrandon> wow a whole 58 karma on LP, you can tell i use it alot
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I've even got more than that!
<_16aR_> minghua:  SONAME      libgdal1.4.0.so.1
<persia> minghua: True.
<imbrandon> heh i think i have the lowest of the MOTU / core-devs thats a non-zero number
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ^
 * persia likes the karma-benefits of changelog-closes-bugs
<_16aR_> Is there another library packaging guide ?
<bddebian> _16aR_: Hey, persia is telling me you are working on delta3d?
<_16aR_> bddebian: yes, right
<minghua> _16aR_: Thanks.  Then I'm quite firmly in the position that the current package gets it right.
<_16aR_> minghua: yes, I should change -lgdal with gdal-config
<minghua> _16aR_: You are supposed to use gdal-config, not hard-coding -lgdal.
<_16aR_> is there any .pc for pkg-config ?
<minghua> _16aR_: Exactly.
<_16aR_> bddebian: don't say you're working on it too ? :p
<bddebian> _16aR_: Nope but I'm on the Debian Games Team and thought it looked like a cool game
<_16aR_> cool game, I don't know, cool game engine, yes, it seems :D
<bddebian> Well aye
<persia> _16aR_: More since you said you'd been working on it for >6 months, and didn't have a mentor, I asked for volunteers to help with the package.
<_16aR_> All right
<imbrandon> yea LaserJock: Architecture: Intel x86 Low Power lpia , so it is x86
<_16aR_> for the moment, I have a _big_ problem
<bddebian> Which is?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, I have no idea what chips count, but whatever
<imbrandon> yea me eihter, via's and intel's M line? dunno
<imbrandon> not sure what would make them diffrent than normal x86's really
<persia> LaserJock: I'm fairly certain that if I pulled my Stylistic (486DX) out of the closet, lpia would be the right architecture for installtion.
<_16aR_> copyright issue
<_16aR_> and no answer from upstream
<bddebian> Ah, that's always bad
<imbrandon> persia, hehe
<LaserJock> persia: so would it work for any x86 proc?
<_16aR_> no license/copyright file
<persia> LaserJock: From what little I've looked at it (I use ARM for -mobile currently), it ought.
<_16aR_> and that's 1 of the deepest dependency ....
<imbrandon> if thats the case then whats the diffrence software side that it needs seperate buildd's
<LaserJock> interesting
<persia> _16aR_: Theres copyright.txt, that mentions a license, or do you mean the missing LPGL.txt?
<_16aR_> no
<_16aR_> no copyright.txt
<persia> imbrandon: HInts and tricks to save space, and optimize differently.  Power is critical in a -mobile setting.
<_16aR_> but I'm checking if every source file contains GPL header
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: They have different chroots, and there's no facility for building multiple dpkg archs on one set of buildds at the moment.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i ment more of a "if a phone has a x86 proc , why not use a normal x86 package"
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<LaserJock> but why wouldn't you just have a different kernel I think is the question
<_16aR_> 3 .c files are missing the gpl header
<persia> LaserJock: Different gcc optimization preferences
<somerville32> LaserJock, Can you take a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/screem/+bug/33594 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 33594 in screem ".desktop cleanup" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<LaserJock> persia: ahhh
 * persia encourages people to type bug numbers rather than pasting edge URLs
<minghua> persia: Do you want me to state my opinion in that gdal bug, or you've heard it and is going to take care of it?
<imbrandon> persia, would just be better if edge was smart enough to redirect non beta testers to the normal page
<persia> imbrandon: The "solution" was to give everyone public access by URL.
<persia> (one just can't log into the wrong system)
<LaserJock> somerville32: k, looks reasonable
<imbrandon> lol classic
<somerville32> LaserJock, I'm just doing bug cleanup. You're a U-M-S, aren't you?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> although screem works fine right now
 * imbrandon hides again
<LaserJock> so it's pretty wishlist
<Fujitsu> persia: edge has always been public.
<Fujitsu> Only beta was ever restricted.
<somerville32> LaserJock, So you're not willing to sponsor? :P
<_16aR_> minghua: by the way ... Who must create .pc file for pkg-config if any ?
<_16aR_> is it packager ? upstream ?
<LaserJock> somerville32: well, if there's some other stuff to do
<minghua> _16aR_: Usually upstream.
<LaserJock> somerville32: but I don't know if it's worth an upload by itself
<_16aR_> minghua: all right, otherwise I could have added them
<somerville32> LaserJock, Someone went out of their way to provide that patch though :P
<persia> Fujitsu: Not true. Initially, I couldn't see edge either.
<somerville32> Persia infact
<_16aR_> but I don't if I must create a dependency to pkg-config then, or the way how to do it
<Fujitsu> persia: When was this?
<persia> somerville32: Which patch?  If it's only a patch, it's likely crufilty old.
<persia> Fujitsu: Months back
<LaserJock> somerville32: it should still be done, but we should pool fixes if we can
<Fujitsu> I was able to access it long before I was in launchpad-beta-testers, though I was one of the first people to be in it... so I guess they must have restricted it afterwards.
<imbrandon> dont we have an X team / irc channel ?
<LaserJock> man I hate all these stinkin' crash bugs
 * Fujitsu points at #ubuntu-x
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: They're better than not knowing about any crashes.
<LaserJock> no wonder we're waay behind
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: barely
<LaserJock> I've got probably 20-30 crash bugs I have no idea what to do with
<Fujitsu> And they mean we often don't have to ask for the backtrace.
<persia> somerville32: Ignore the patch.  desktop-file-validate has been completely rewritten since then.  It needs a new patch, and really belongs upstream.
<persia> LaserJock: Point me at one: I feel like a stacktrace
<LaserJock> for screem 14 out of 19 bugs are crashes
 * persia picks one
<LaserJock> most probably with 0 triage done
<LaserJock> I often times fail to see th point of filing bugs that nobody's gonna look at
<LaserJock> it's just more mess
<Fujitsu> I've fixed a few crashers, but most of my bug work just ends up being consolidation of dupes and the like.
<persia> LaserJock: Depends on the package.  I watch about 10, and generally fix all the apport bugs within a month or two (at least for the packages where I understand the code).  There's no way to know from outside if it will be looked at.
<imbrandon> man i dont use gentoo for one reason, i dont wanna compile everything , but then what do i do? i become a ubuntu-developer
 * imbrandon sighs
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Hahah.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: exactly
<LaserJock> I did the same thing
<imbrandon> :)
 * persia points out that you only have to compile 1% of everything as an Ubuntu developer
<LaserJock> persia: good for you
<LaserJock> I've never had a crasher fixed
<imbrandon> persia, true, but lately i've been picking on large packages like kde*, linux-kernel , X , etc hehe
<LaserJock> they just sit around for a few releases
<StevenK> LaserJock: Then talk to upstream and bug people
<persia> LaserJock: Really?  Then I'll ignore the screem crashers for now: give me one of yours.
<_16aR_> minghua: If you know how to use gdal-config with scons , I would be glad :p
<LaserJock> persia: screem's good
<LaserJock> we ship it in Edubuntu
<persia> LaserJock: But I'm seeking to change your personal user experience, not hack Edubuntu :)
<imbrandon> persia, he hacks on enubuntu :)
<LaserJock> well, I'm just kinda depressed when it comes to bugs in Edubuntu
<_16aR_> minghua: it seems every libname is in a array, and each item of the array gets a -l prefix at compile time. So if I just add `gdal-config --CXX-FLAGS` it shouldn't get cool
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: If you implement the spec about teaching students how to code, all your problems are solved :P
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: heh
<minghua> _16aR_: I know neither gdal or scons, so sorry.
<LaserJock> it seems like all I can do is paperwork (find dups, "are you still having this problem?", close invalids)
<minghua> persia: My comment added to bug 159871, I'll leave the decision to you.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159871 in gdal "libgdal.so symlink is missing" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159871
<LaserJock> now that I think of it I don't know that I've ever actually fixed a real code bug
<LaserJock> or had one turn out
<LaserJock> that stinks :(
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> i can find you several real code bugs if you want to fix one
<LaserJock> oh, I know they're out there
<imbrandon> pwnguin, thanks for pointing me to xeyphr (sp?) ended up being just what i needed for the solution
<persia> minghua: Nah.  Take the decision.  I'm not invested in libgdal, and your last comment includes all the explanation and references to research one might want.
<LaserJock> I've just never seen bugs work out all that well
<pwnguin> imbrandon: np. i tried using it to test the ubuntu mobile stuff
<persia> LaserJock: I can show you some examples if you like.  Most of my good ones are in torcs or hydrogen.
<pwnguin> they seem a bit befuddled at the moment
<LaserJock> persia: you looking at screem now?
<pwnguin> any idea what -$(MAKE) clean would need the - for?
<persia> LaserJock: Yep.  bug #128903 to be rprecise
<ubotu> Bug 128903 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/128903 is private
<pwnguin> its in the default dh_make debian/rules
<StevenK> pwnguin: It may fail
<persia> pwnguin: Because the packager was too lazy to find out why make was failing, or used dh_make
 * pwnguin is the packager
<LaserJock> "I clicked on something in preferences
<minghua> persia: No way. :-)  I've changed the status once, you changed it back to confirmed.  I'm not touching it again.
<LaserJock> oh so handy
<persia> pwnguin: If you know make clean always succeeds, drop the "-".  If you know if may fail, trap on the failure condition.
<persia> LaserJock: What the user says isn't important.  The apport data is useful.
<minghua> pwnguin: Most of the time, it's for a clean build when no Makefile exists.
 * pwnguin is having to write his own makefiles for this package
<persia> minghua: OK.  It's just you should get the karma credit for the research.  I'll go adjust on your behalf...
<LaserJock> persia: StacktraceSource.txt ?
<minghua> Karma is overrated.  Thanks persia.
<persia> LaserJock: That's where I start.  Do you want to do this one together, and maybe you can hit the next one?
<LaserJock> persia: yeah
<persia> Channel Members: Any opinions on use tracking a stacktrace in-channel?  We can also go somewhere else.
 * Fujitsu thinks it's fine.
<Fujitsu> Probably educational for most.
 * somerville32 nods.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.
 * persia checks to make it public to increase value
<persia> OK.  We're looking at bug #128903.  Screem crashed when the user was doing something with preferences, and we're going to find out why, and fix it.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128903 in screem "screem crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/128903
<persia> First, we grab the source code for screem in a local scratch directory, as we'll be looking through the source to understand what the programmer thought they were doing when the bug was created.
<jdong> would it be horribly wrong to fork Azureus?
<persia> Then, we'll start with the Stacktrace.txt to make some guesses as to what might be happening.
<LaserJock> persia: with you
<LaserJock> jdong: why would you do that? :)
<Fujitsu> jdong: I don't think so.
<Fujitsu> Probably better to rewrite it in something sane, however.
<persia> OK.  I usually start around #3 or #4 in the stacktrace to get some context.  Sometimes one needs to go deeper, and sometimes it's more obvious.
<imbrandon> c#
<jdong> LaserJock / Fujitsu: I'm extremely unhappy with this Vuze videostore crap that is fused into the Azureus 3.0.3.4 GUI
<LaserJock> ok, wait
<LaserJock> which direction does it go
<Fujitsu> jdong: Ahh.
<jdong> IMO it's crap that is not needed in a torrent client
 * Fujitsu strangles imbrandon 
<LaserJock> it's opposite of python right?
<jdong> I don't want my torrent client hiding the torrent interface from me to show a youtube clone.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Frame 0 is the latest.
<LaserJock> k
<persia> LaserJock: #0 is the function at the point of the crash.  #N moves back to prgram start with increasing N
<imbrandon> jdong, yea az 3.X is EVIL
<jdong> I am thinking about ripping the 3.0.3.4 downloader core and putting it on the 2.5.0.4 UI
<jdong> or otherwise neutering the Vuze video store thing
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<persia> So, #3 and #4 seem to indicate that we're trying to draw or refresh a page, based on the function names.
 * minghua agrees the Vuze UI is rather useless (at least under Linux).
<somerville32> Shhh! O
<persia> #2 appears more specifically to be related to a link of some type, #1 to some remote connection, and #0 to a copy from the remote site (again, just based on function names)
<jdong> I'm not sure if Az is trademarked or something
<LaserJock> persia: do you know how #4 and #3 are related, etc.?
<jdong> but IMO Azureus is a very nice and powerful torrent client that works GREAT when packaged correctly and run under a working Java stack....
<persia> LaserJock: No idea at all at this point: I've never seen this code (I suggested patching a .desktop file once)
<jdong> it's a shame upstream decided to commercialize it with a gimmick.
<LaserJock> persia: right, I just wondered if you could tell from the trace
<LaserJock> I mean the basic idea is #0 fails so #1 fails ... right?
<StevenK> LaserJock: Not usually
<LaserJock> ok fine :p
<persia> LaserJock: Well, you can make some guesses based on the function names, and the arguments.  I'd suggest that #4 was probably trying to draw a GTK Window, and #3 was filling a panel in that window, but that's conjecture.
<StevenK> LaserJock: It could be a bug in #1 calling the wrong function, but is usually a bug in #0
<LaserJock> but the different "frames" are related right
<persia> LaserJock: When #0 is in the target code, it's almost always #0.  When #0 is in libc or libgtk, etc. it's often easier to add an exception handler at #7 (or whatever) to not expose the condition.
<StevenK> Right. When you call a function, you push onto the stack, creating another frame
<LaserJock> k, I think I'm with you
<StevenK> When you leave that function, you pop off the top of the stack, returning to the new top of the stack
<LaserJock> ah, right
<StevenK> persia: Feel free to correct me if I'm being dumb. :-)
<StevenK> LaserJock: Then there is the heap, but I won't get into that
<LaserJock> ok, so it looks like this has to do with the site publishing feature
<persia> StevenK: Dumb?  You?  Contradiction.  I tend to use an onion-style explanation, but I'm not used to training qualified technical staff
<Hobbsee> StevenK: besides, you're a canonical employee now.  you're supposed to be perfect, and we all bask in your greatness.
<Hobbsee> or something like that.
<persia> LaserJock: It looks that way, probably related to the FTP error handler: many upstreams expect the network connections to just work, and don't bother to check if it is failing.
<somerville32> [01:00] <ubotu> New bug: #128903 in screem (main) "screem crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/128903
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128903 in screem "screem crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,New]
<StevenK> persia: It's a stack, and I daresay LaserJock is well versed in LIFO or FILO.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Only supposed to be?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: granted.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Ah ha. Okay
<persia> StevenK: All true.  Your explanantion is more than welcome :)
<LaserJock> StevenK: you're an employee?
<StevenK> LaserJock: Right.
<LaserJock> doing what?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: he's joined the Evil Canonical Empire (tm), yes.
<persia> StevenK: And you didn't even have to change your nick :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Hahah.
<LaserJock> lol
<somerville32> I don't see how bug 128903 is new.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128903 in screem "screem crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/128903
<somerville32> Is ubotu acting up again?
<StevenK> LaserJock: Also, one thing to keep in mind is that if a function does something *really* bad, it can smash the stack, making the backtrace complete garbage.
<persia> somerville32: maybe because lots of people are poking it?
<LaserJock> StevenK: ouch
<somerville32> StevenK, What do you do in that case?
<persia> Apport usually gives up in those cases, so one doesn't have the nice traces anyway.
<StevenK> LaserJock: And with SEGV bugs, it could be pointer corruption or using a pointer wrongly, or worse case, heap corruption.
<Fujitsu> If the backtrace shows null addresses it's definitely corrupt, right?
<persia> somerville32: interactive gdb can help, if you can reproduce.  Otherwise it's just annoying.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Not necessarily
<persia> Fujitsu: Or someone was passing null pointers
<StevenK> Fujitsu: The code could just be trying to play with NULL pointers since it's dumb
<StevenK> LaserJock: I started a month ago
<imbrandon> StevenK, ahh so what does canonical have you doing ? heh
<persia> So, let's assume this bug is a nice straightforward coding error, and proceed.  It could be very bad, but we won't know until we get a little deeper.
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% head -n 2 .canonical-signature | tail -n 1
<StevenK> Ubuntu Mobile Developer
 * somerville32 is excited.
<LaserJock> StevenK: awesome
<imbrandon> StevenK, rockin
<StevenK> LaserJock, imbrandon: It's the reason I was at UDS.
<imbrandon> :)
<persia> So, I suggest we review screem-linkview.c:299 first, just to build some context of variable names, and what we're expecting to pass, etc.
<LaserJock> StevenK: I wondered
<StevenK> LaserJock: You were welcome to ask.
<somerville32> Seveas, there is a bug with ubotu and bugs.
 * Fujitsu wonders if we're meant to go around polling people about Canonical employment status.
<persia> somerville32: No, it isn't a bug.  It just became unprivate recently, and ubotu just heard it existed.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: fairly obvious, when they use canonical.com in their LP profile.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Why?
<StevenK> ... Like I do.
<Hobbsee> ubotu has many bugs.
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about has many bugs. - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Only after I told you didn't have it there.
 * persia hugs ubotu
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Yeah, well
<LaserJock> persia: ok, so what are you looking for?
<somerville32> persia, Oh right.
<somerville32> Why was it private?
 * Hobbsee likes the !forget bug, in particular.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Crashes are by default private.
<somerville32> !forget hobbsee
<Hobbsee> somerville32: all the automatically reported crashes are private
<somerville32> okay.
<Fujitsu> The traces or coredumps may well contain private information.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: you lose.  it has ACL.
<StevenK> Such as passwords
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Right.
<somerville32> : (
<Fujitsu> Or, even better, GnuPG crashes.
<persia> LaserJock: We're just trying to get an understanding of what is happening.  screem_site_sync_status is being called with the site and &priv->upload_table.  I forget the syntax, but I believe that should be a pointer to some entitlement table or something.
<somerville32> entitlement table?
<persia> somerville32: place where privileges are stored
<StevenK> somerville32: Think about you. You are stracing a pop3 daemon, and you get some data from the network, which could be auth info. Bang, you've just gotten someone's account information, and all you had to do was read a bug.
<somerville32> StevenK, Tracking.
<somerville32> persia, And this is screem specific implementation?
<StevenK> Er. Think about it
<persia> somerville32: There's a comment just beneath the call referring to screem-linkview-util.h for an explanation, which is our next stop.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: did the merge look ok? :)
<somerville32> persia, I suppose I should download the source code.
<persia> somerville32: That might help to follow the bugfix :)
 * somerville32 ducks.
<imbrandon> joejaxx, X still building localy , i dident look yet
<somerville32> How long does X take to build?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: oh ok
<joejaxx> somerville32: depends on your system :P
<imbrandon> somerville32, when your on my machine a LONG time
<persia> OK.  We should expect to see nicely named status conditions, and it looks like the author has put in at least some hooks, or we wouldn't see _BROKEN, etc.
<persia> LaserJock: Good so far?
<LaserJock> persia: kinda, I'm in the .h now
<LaserJock> I see the statuses
<persia> LaserJock: OK.  Ask anything you like: the goal here is to get a basic grasp of what we're expecting to screem_site_sync_status to do (very basic - just universal context)
<somerville32> What file are we in?
<persia> somerville32: screem-linkview.c:299
<LaserJock> persia: so it's looking at the files of the server and seeing what needs to be synced
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  That both matches my impression and is the correct level of detail to understand the problem at this point.
<persia> Now we want to look at the uploadwizard more directly, so we'll move to #1 (uploadWizard.c:1300)
<persia> (in the plugins directory)
<persia> From here, we want to peruse the entire function, not just the point at #1.  We were called by screem_site_sync_status, so we are trying to build a full context of what this function is doing, and where we are.
 * persia notes that the alias of screem_site_sync_status to screem_site_get_sync_status really isn't usually important in this type of situation.
<persia> So, if we hit line 1300, we know 1) it's not a fake site and  2) there is an available directory for the site.  The function as a whole is indeed processing the site update as we previously conjectured from our investigation of #2.
<somerville32> We're at frame #2 right now, right?
<somerville32> er.. #1
<persia> Also, we know that we're passing a ScreemSite and a gboolean to screem_site_to_sitecopy_site
<LaserJock> persia: k, with you
<persia> somerville32: #1, yes.
<persia> We haven't encountered the ScreemSite definition, so let's take a detour to review that from include/screem-site.h
<StevenK> persia: I'd like to sleep, but I want to see this discussion. Would you mind pasting/mailing the completed logs?
<persia> StevenK: Sure, although I generally find irc.ubuntu.com fairly trustworthy.
<somerville32> You need a username and password for it?
<persia> Err.   http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<Fujitsu> irc.u.c was working a couple of days ago.
<Fujitsu> In the "It works!" default manner, though.
<persia> Fujitsu: It's still doing that...
<LaserJock> geser: geeze, did you get anything out of screem-site.h?
<persia> So, back to our bug investigation: the typedef for ScreemSite starts on line 46, and we can see it's just a wrapper for ScreemSitePrivate (which is where the priv we saw in #2 likely comes from)
<somerville32> Where is ScreemSitePrivate defined?
<persia> somerville32: line 43
<LaserJock> persia: ah right
<somerville32> It doesn't look like anything.
<persia> We also have the fairly messy workaround that is GObject, and so can guess that this is likely to be somewhat obfuscated for non-GNOME coders (like us)
<somerville32> I'm new to C/C++. Can you explain line 43? I've never seen a struct with no body like that.
<LaserJock> is that a constructor?
<persia> Further in the page, there are a lot of function declarations, and I believe these are somewhat like C implementations of members, but my GObject knowledge is fuzzy.  Let's just keep this file open for reference as we move to #0, in case we wonder what something does.
<persia> LaserJock: Umm.  Sort of a constructor.  C doesn't have objects.
<LaserJock> oh right, sorry, was thinking C++
<somerville32> Have we been working backwards?
<persia> somerville32: It's a special sort of GObject thing: don't worry about it.
<persia> somerville32: Yes.  That's always easiest for stacktraces.  First, get some context and familarity with the code, then find the bug, then patch it.
 * somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> So #0 is the crash
<LaserJock> persia: so we're off to #0?
<persia> LaserJock: Sure.  That's uploadWizard.c:307, so we don't even have to change files
<persia> (I generally debug with two windows: one for .c and one for .h: it's not infrequent one has to go back and forth, especially when upstream doesn't have good naming conventions.  screem is fairly nice to debug.
<somerville32> I'm using tabs
<LaserJock> I"m trying to figure out vim ;-)
<somerville32> Have you tried the tutorial?
<LaserJock> persia: ok, so it's checking for a ~<username> URL?
<persia> So, in a similar way to going from #2 to #1, we want to look at the entire function, as this is where the bug lies, and we really want to know what we're doing when we hit it.  Let's start from 211, and walk through slowly
<persia> LaserJock: maybe.  I think you're ahead of me :)
<LaserJock> somerville32: well, I know the basics, it's just moving around fast. I've got my cheet sheet next to me
<somerville32> persia, Can structs have member functions in C++?
<StevenK> somerville32: If you're going to do that, use a class, for the love of everything holy.
<persia> somerville32: I don't think they would be called structs in that case.  My language theory is weak, and my C++ more so: I'm just comfortable with stack traces and matching surrounding syntax, which makes me look good.
<StevenK> somerville32: However, a struct can have a function pointer. This may make people hate you.
<persia> LaserJock: I've caught up with you.  It looks like you've identified it correctly.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: what's the difference between a struct and a class, if not to use member functions?
<somerville32> I don't actually know C and I see that this struct we're in has member functions but I don't recall that in C++
<persia> Annoyingly, we're seeing lots of "<value optimized out>" in the stacktrace.  Ideally, we'd see all the variable data, and would be able to think about it more easily.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: A struct is an block of memory partitioned up into a bits, and a class is a bluepoint for an instance.
<StevenK> s/a bits/bits/
<persia> StevenK: Umm.  A struct is a blueprint for a block of memory partitioned into bits, no?
<StevenK> Uh, duh
<StevenK> It is nearly quarter to 1
<Hobbsee> ah, right.
<persia> Hobbsee: As I understand it, there's no real difference, except that C++ parsers complain when you put members in structs.
<StevenK> They so don't.
<somerville32> So a struct is a class without inheritance and other fancy OOP features?
<StevenK> If you think of that way, you'll just confuse yourself
<persia> somerville32: That's a good way to think about it, although putting members in structs is ugly and bad
<StevenK> It's just a block of memory
<LaserJock> persia: ok, so... is there anything we can do now?
 * persia must use objects wrong: I think of them as fancy structs
<Hobbsee> persia: right
<persia> LaserJock: We can look in the other files in the bug, and see if we can get a better idea of the data on which this failed.
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> persia: ok, before we do that, one question
<persia> LaserJock: Sure.
<LaserJock> so do we actually know what happened?
<StevenK> Well, a class is the spawn of the devil and a struct isn't. :-P
<StevenK> A C++ class, anyway
<somerville32> I'm a little lost. This struct looks like a function.
<persia> LaserJock: No, and we don't really care.  If we get stuck, we will go back up the stack, find out what happened, and ask the user for more information.  If we find an error condition that could cause a SIGSEGV at uploadWizard.c:307 due to some silly missing test, we'll just patch it and call the bug closed.  apport will open another one if we're wrong, and the code will be better anyway.
<LaserJock> like what actually happened in this crash?
<persia> somerville32: That's the nature of GObject.
<LaserJock> like does getting a wrong type of variable cause a SIGSEGV?
<persia> StevenK: If you call a C++ class the spawn of the devil, what is a GObject?
<StevenK> Worse. It uses function pointers.
<somerville32> This is a GObject?
<persia> LaserJock: That's one case.  Do you think that maybe the remote_isrel isn't a string, so sitecopy_site->remote_isrel has issues when we try to set it to '~'?
<persia> somerville32: That's what screem-site.h told us.
<LaserJock> persia: for instance
<persia> LaserJock: My understanding is that a SIGSEGV happens when we try to access invalid memory, for nearly any reason.   Stuffing variables of the wrong type in the wrong places can easily lead to that.
<ScottK> Adri2000 or Lutin: You might want to look at the difference between the DaD and MoM candidate merges for amavisd-new and ponder your script ...
<somerville32> persia, What line?
<persia> somerville32: The general messiness and constant references to GObject
<LaserJock> persia: ok and ThreadStacktrace.txt doesn't really give anything useful for the variables
<persia> somerville32: Plus all the objecty stuff jammed into a C program.
<persia> LaserJock: Right, I also don't see much useful in ProcStatus or Disassembly.  Let's investigate your idea of a type mismatch a bit.
<somerville32> What is in ProcStatus and Disassembly?
<persia> So sitecopy_site is a New ScreemSite, but I don't see a reference to is_rel in screem-site.h
<persia> Err.  Rather I don't see a reference to remote_isrel.
<LaserJock> mhm
<StevenK> But it should exist, otherwise it wouldn't build. :-)
<persia> Let's start looking around in /src/screem-site* to see if there's anything useful there.
<persia> StevenK: Yep.
<LaserJock> sites.h:    unsigned int remote_isrel:1; /* is the remote root dir relative to login dir? (~/) */
<somerville32> sitecopy_site->remote_isrel = ( string[ 0 ] == '~' );
<somerville32> So remote_isrel is a property of sitecopy_site?
<somerville32> or attribute or w/e you call it
<persia> somerville32: Yes.  It seems to be defined in plugins/uploadWizard/sites.h
<LaserJock> so what is that line doing?
<persia> LaserJock: UploadWizard.c:307?
<LaserJock> yeah
<StevenK> If 307 is the line somerville32 pasted, I'm pointing the blame at 'string'
<persia> It's setting remote_isrel to the result of ( string[ 0 ] == '~' ), which I think is "~\0", but I need to refesh my understanding os "string"
<persia> s/os/of/
<somerville32> It would be either true or false
<LaserJock> ok, but remote_isrel is an int
<somerville32> 1 or 0
<somerville32> :1 means it defaults to 1, right?
<persia> Since remote_isrel is an unsigned int, why don't we just set it to 176?
<StevenK> Actually, an unsigned int -- there is a differencce
<persia> Er..  126 (0x176)
<somerville32> persia, Why that?
<StevenK> ASCII code for ~
<somerville32> Ah.
 * persia echoes StevenK who isn't sleeping :)
<StevenK> Shhh
<LaserJock> ok, wait, I'm not quite there
<ScottK> If a Debian package I'm trying to merge has a changelog that appears to have been lost in space for a while (has a record of uploads that the Debian archive knows nothing about and knows nothing about several uploads that Debian does know about) do I try and fix it or just plug my ears, say "la la la la, I can't hear you" and move on with it?
<StevenK> ScottK: The later
<StevenK> latter
<LaserJock> ok if the first char of the sting is "~" then we're seting remote_isrel to 1?
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
<persia> ScottK: Fixing it would be nice, but not fixing it would be "best practice"
<imbrandon> woot, Xvesa seems to build and install fine joejaxx , now to test if it actualy works
 * ScottK grumbles it'll make my fix for Gutsy look silly for fixing a really old version, but OK ...
<persia> LaserJock: We're setting remote_isrel to the byte value of the first character of the string '~'.  I believe this should be 0x176
<pwnguin> i donno if fixing it would be a good idea
<somerville32> How do we do that exactly?
<pwnguin> its possible that debian dropped an older package in favor of that one
<StevenK> sitecopy_site->remote_isrel = chr(string[0]);
<persia> somerville32: We comment out line 307, and add our own that sets the value explicitly rather than through string[ 0 ] == '~' , and has a comment that 0x176 == '~'.
 * persia also likes StevenK's suggestion
<somerville32> So we're going to recompile and attempt this?
<LaserJock> well, how do we even test this?
<persia> somerville32: We don't know how to reproduce it :)
<ScottK> StevenK: is it something to file a bug against the package on in Debian?
 * somerville32 echos LaserJock question
<StevenK> persia: Keep in mind that may break other assumptions in the code.
<persia> LaserJock: In this case, we can't really.  We can step back through the trace, but without the data, we'll have trouble.
<imbrandon> err is Xorg suid root ?
<LaserJock> persia: ok, so at this point what do we do?
<LaserJock> time to look upstream maybe?
<persia> LaserJock: Well, I'm looking through the function a bit more, and notice more checks below.  I'm suspecting string is actually some variable rather than a word, and we'll want to find out what it means.
<pwnguin> imbrandon: yes?
<LaserJock> persia: I see
<pwnguin> imbrandon: root      6498  4.3  5.9  68048 62028 tty7     SLs+ Nov03  31:06 /usr/bin/X
<persia> Looking at upstream can help, if they've fixed it, but I usually just chase the code for a bit.  Most are a little less confusing :(
<somerville32> What line does it actually crash on?
<pwnguin> imbrandon: 	gcc soulfu.c -I/usr/include/SDL/ -I/usr/include/GL/ -I../lib/jpeg-soulfu/ -L../lib/jpeg-soulfu/ -lSDL -lGL -lSDL_net -lvorbis -logg -ljpeg
<persia> OK.  Line 304 tells us that string = screem_site_get_remote_path( ssite ), so we're really looking at a pathname, and trying to determine the structure.
<pwnguin> doh
<pwnguin> imbrandon: -rwsr-sr-x 1 root root 7472 2007-10-09 13:53 /usr/bin/X
<LaserJock> persia: right, it's taking something like ~/public_html or something?
<StevenK> persia: So now the question is, what does screem_site_get_remote_path() return?
<LaserJock> s/taking/looking for/
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  In line 312 it checks to see that there is a valid first character (either ~ or /)
<persia> To test, we could try defining a screem remote site without a valid first character (or a unicode first character) and see if it breaks in an interesting way.
 * persia installs screem
<LaserJock> hmm, the path on the site or the URL?
<persia> LaserJock: I suspect the "Remote Path" in Site Settings.
<persia> Hrm.  I can't reproduce, even with funny strings: it seems to take the right decision, or complain.
<LaserJock> so is it ok to ask the reporter if they can confirm?
<persia> LaserJock: Perhaps, but I'm tempted to think that 0.16.1-4.1ubuntu1 might have fixed it (don't disable gtk deprecateds).
<LaserJock> really?
<persia> LaserJock: Well, maybe.  Changing the API can have odd effects.  Depends on the nature of the change, and I'm not sure what -DGTK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED -DGNOME_DISABLE_DEPRECATED -DGNOMEUI_DISABLE_DEPRECATED would do to a build.
<LaserJock> mhm
<persia> I'm looking at the build history, to see where the build failure was happening: if the earlier version was released on i386, that might be a source of issues.
 * LaserJock has spent his weekly Ubuntu time on this bug ;-)
<Hobbsee> you have a weekly ubuntu time now?
<LaserJock> I *should*
<persia> LaserJock: Sorry.  Fixing one of these takes a few hours, if not more.  I prefer it to looking at lots of bugs, because of the sense of satisfaction when a solution is found, but it's not a light task.
<LaserJock> persia: thanks for helping me out
<LaserJock> I'm gonna try some more
<somerville32> persia, So what exactly do you do when you find the solution?
<LaserJock> geeze, some of these are just so unhelpful though
<LaserJock> "Under Feisty. Screem doesn't want to publish."
<LaserJock> that's from March
<persia> somerville32: Write a patch.  If it's easy to replicate, I just apply it, and then share with others.  If it's mysterious, I send it upstream, with notes from my debugging.  Sometimes I can't find the fix, and just have to send notes (I exposed a libgtk bug this way)
<somerville32> Do you apply it locally or do you send it upstream to apply?
<persia> somerville32: If I know it fixes it, I do it locally first, and then pass it on.  If I'm not sure, I pass it on first, and wait for it to get reviewed by others.  It all depends on my confidence level that the solution is correct.
<LaserJock> this should at least let me figure out if any off the apport bugs are dups, etc.
<somerville32> persia, Lets try another bug! :)
<persia> LaserJock: Anything that has the same line in #0 is typically a dup.  This isn't always true, but for bugs with reasonable traces, a good fix for one of them usually fixes the others.
<persia> If the traces aren't clear, it's a lot harder to tell.  if the trace is bad, and the description is bad, and I can't easily replicate, I usually call them invalid.
<imbrandon> haha gotta love comments in debain/* files sometimes
<persia> somerville32: I'm not done with this one.  If you want to try another apport bug, go ahead: I'm happy to answer questions about the process (and if you're lucky, you'll find one with an obvious patch: I seem to have about a 50% success rate)
<persia> imbrandon: which?
<imbrandon> # piss-off
<imbrandon> xprint binary: description-starts-with-package-name
<imbrandon> in an overides
<StevenK> Who's the maintainer?
<somerville32> persia, If you have any more breakthrough let me know
<imbrandon> StevenK, core-dev ( its part of xserver-xorg-core )
<persia> somerville32: On this bug?  Sure.  If I find a solution, I'll report it.  Subscribe to the bug if you want detailed history.
<imbrandon> ok , me being an idiot i havent messed with having to suid a prog yet ( thankfully i guess ? ) but looking in the xorg package i cnt see where its chmod +s it
<imbrandon> wtf am i missing
<LaserJock> persia: could you have a quick look at whether bug #86003 is useful?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 86003 in screem "[apport] screem crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86003
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: As far as I know it's not... doesn't *dm execute it as root?
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see, it is..
<imbrandon> yea
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Might the upstream install target set it?
<persia> LaserJock: I just looked at that earlier.  It needs a retrace.  I added the tag, and hope apport will get to it.  If not, it's not as useful.
<LaserJock> persia: ahh, ok
<somerville32> Can I access apport bugs?
<imbrandon> and building Xvesa needs to be suid also ( same source, justa new .install ) soooooo i was trying to look and see where it does it
<Fujitsu> somerville32: We do try to unprivatise them where appropriate.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Search for bugs tagged apport-crash.
<somerville32> Who has access though?
<pwnguin> imbrandon: is -motu really a better resource for this than -devel or -x?
<imbrandon> pwnguin, i always start here and since Xvesa likely wont be main right off , yes
<persia> somerville32: developers and the bug control team
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Members of ~ubuntu-crashes-universe.
<pwnguin> phew. it'd be kinda crazy if motu knew more about x than devel or x team
<LaserJock> persia: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/7618029/%3Cfdopen%3E looks pretty useless?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon:
<Fujitsu>         chmod ug+s debian/x11-common/usr/bin/X
<Fujitsu> In debian/rules.
<persia> LaserJock: Yep.  That's a smashed stack.
<LaserJock> persia: is that an "Invalid"?
 * Fujitsu invalidates them, asking them to reopen if they can get a backtrace.
<persia> LaserJock: Depends on the user comment.  If the user provided enough information for the bug to be useful without the stacktrace, no.  If the user provided the more common "I didn't do nothing", then Yes, "Invalid"
<LaserJock> it just says "I started it and it crashed"
<somerville32> Oh cool, I'm already a member of ubuntu-crashes-universe
<persia> LaserJock: That's not enough information for us to help.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Through ubuntu-qa or whatever it is called today?
<somerville32> Aye.
<somerville32> or ubuntu-bugcontrol
<Fujitsu> That's the one.
<persia> LaserJock: To put it differently, if either the description or the stacktrace gives you enough information to figure out the nature of the problem, then it's useful.  If not, then it's "Invalid"
<Fujitsu> I preferred ubuntu-buglords, personally.
 * persia was fine with QA
<LaserJock> it's not ubuntu-qa anymore?
<somerville32> nope
 * persia misses QA.  How do we now assure quality?
<LaserJock> well that's weird
<LaserJock> I understand using something else for permissions control
<somerville32> We weren't really doing QA :/
<LaserJock> but we should still have a QA team
<LaserJock> ubuntu-qa
<somerville32> buqsquad is the new qa team
<somerville32> What happened to the lawless guy?
<persia> somerville32: Well, we missed for a while, but we almost reached parity between number of bugs reported per week and number of bugs closed per week recently.  The issue is that there are 35,000 open bugs, and that number hasn't gone down (nevermind that bug reporting has picked up)
<DarkMageZ> bugsquad is for finding duplicate and invalid bugs and marking them as so. QA team should fix the critical/annoying bugs.
<Fujitsu> QA team shouldn't be fixing.
<somerville32> Right
<persia> DarkMageZ: I disagree.  bugsquad can also handle lots more of triage, and lots of tagging.
<Fujitsu> The only reason they were separate is for Importance setting.
<persia> QA team should be reviewing major issues, and highlighting areas for Contributor focus.  Contributors (including developers) should be fixing bugs.
 * Fujitsu notes that ~canonical-qa is now sizable.
 * persia thinks that ~community-qa is still important
<somerville32> That team doesn't exist.
<Fujitsu> persia: Well, obviously, particularly as I'm sure they'll mostly focus on main.
<persia> somerville32: It used to be ~ubuntu-qa, until the permissions issue.
<LaserJock> ok, how about "it randomly crashes with compiz"?
<persia> LaserJock: "random" == "invalid"
<persia> (unless there is, by any chance, a remarkably useful stacktrace)
<LaserJock> persia: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9520221/ThreadStacktrace.txt
<persia> LaserJock: Which bug?
<LaserJock> why does that look so different from the last one?
<LaserJock> bug #145331
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145331 in screem "screem just shuts with no message" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145331
<persia> LaserJock: This is a threaded stacktrace
<LaserJock> it's got a lot of /build/buildd/glib2.0-2.14.1/glib/gslice.c
<LaserJock> I remember there being an issue in gutsy where you'd get some sort of gslice warning
<persia> Ah.  #40 / #41 is interesting.
<persia> From a screem POV, this might be handled by checking for GTK failure in gtk_list_store_remove, but given the depth of the trace, I'd say this was a GTK bug.
<persia> (I don't like to fix anything beyond #10 or so, unless the end is just running through exception handlers)
<persia> (alternately, I'm not sure why GTK is calling back to screem for #33.  Maybe this is odd customised widget code?)
<LaserJock> ok ...
<LaserJock> so as the reporter says this is random is there anything to go on?
<persia> LaserJock: Not really.  It looks like a memory allocation error, but given that it was running some random snapshot of unreleased code, which may not match any replicable environment, it's hard to say.  I'd suggest marking "Invalid", and requesting the reporter to submit a new trace if they can still replicate it in the current release.
<LaserJock> right
<persia> Of course, if you happen to have a GTK programmer around who can look at the issue, and tell you if it's fixed or not, that makes it easier :)
<persia> LaserJock: If we had that stacktrace from 26 October instead of 26 September, I'd call it a valid bug, and reassign to libgtk-2.0
<persia> (or for 26 September, if filed against 7.04
<LaserJock> I see
<LaserJock> oh geeze, here's one from June 06
<persia> LaserJock: Any chance it's reported against released Dapper?
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> it was 2006-06-25
<LaserJock> what day did we release Dapper?
<persia> Ah.  Right.  We didn7t get Apport until feisty or so, did we?
<LaserJock> this is got a manual stack trace
<persia> LaserJock: Doesn't matter.  I can believe a 5 day wait before upgrading.
<persia> OOh.  Which one?
<LaserJock> bug #50936
<Fujitsu> persia: Edgy, but not until Feisty did it attach them multi-part and get automatic retraces.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 50936 in baltix "Screem freezes seemingly at random" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50936
<persia> Fujitsu: It was end-edgy that we had the manual download&retrace workflow?
 * persia grumbles at Baltix
<Fujitsu> I think so.
<Fujitsu> I hate the darn Baltix tasks.
<minghua> Hmm.  I wonder if it's worth reporting a bug if I don't use "visual effects", remove compiz, and get a GNOME with no window manager.
<minghua> s/if I don't/that I don't/
<persia> minghua: It's a known issue: it should be a bug, as compiz doesn't work for everyone.
<LaserJock> oh geeze
 * LaserJock finally sees Reno 911
<imbrandon> LaserJock, youve never seen it before ?
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> no
<minghua> persia: When compiz was not removed, it was fine.
<minghua> (although I don't think I was using compiz, it seems there was a backup plan working)
<persia> minghua: Right.  There's something odd happening.  I don't remember why, but I believe the bug log for the issue should tell you.
<minghua> persia: Do you by any chance remember which package that bug is against?
<persia> minghua: No idea.  I remember discussion on IRC only
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I didn't know it had so much Reno in it
<persia> minghua: It's even more complicated as it's probably either Fix Released or Invalid.
 * minghua goes digging LP.
<minghua> Ugh.
<Fujitsu> AFAIK, compiz is always executed, but degrades to metacity if your card is blacklisted. So if you remove compiz without disabling it in Appearance first, you lose.
<LaserJock> geeze, that would really suck if I'm on Reno 911  :/
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> persia: any guess on that old screem bug?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: seriously, I saw UNR
<imbrandon> yea, i used to watch it all the time
<minghua> Fujitsu: It had always been disabled in "appearance" for me.  There is a hard-coded gconf key.
<imbrandon> its funny as hell
<persia> LaserJock: I don't know screem well enough.  I can't figure out  what "attach a file" means.
<LaserJock> persia: I think he was saying that he was going to attach the files he was working on
<Fujitsu> minghua: Ah.
<persia> LaserJock: The trace is useful, and the comment usful.  I have no idea if it applies to modern screem.
<minghua> So the blacklist Fujitsu mentioned should be the "backup plan" I was suspecting.  Something is still wrong, though.  I do realize my situation is uncommon.
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  I can't find any "attach" menu item.
<LaserJock> persia: I was thinking attach to the bug report
<persia> Ah.  Excellent interpretation.  It's an "Incomplete" bug until we get the test files :)
<LaserJock> right on
<minghua> Aha.  Bug 157200 seems to be my problem.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157200 in compiz "metacity wont start directly if compiz and xserver-xgl are removed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157200
<Fujitsu> minghua: Looks like it, though I would have thought there would be a dupe.
<Fujitsu> Maybe in gnome-session.
<persia> minghua: It's surely a duplicate of something older, but yes :)
<minghua> Yeah, that's why I'm asking here first, but nobody seems to know for sure. :-(
<minghua> That bug isn't exactly the same as mine though...
<persia> minghua: You might also ask the #ubuntu-bugs people.  They see more of the bugs than we do
<persia> (although the population there seems to be steadily dropping: I blame ubotu
<minghua> persia: Right, I'll ask there.  Although I doubt it will be more helpful.
<LaserJock> man
<LaserJock> sometimes Main can be a real mess
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> why is it this time?
<LaserJock> well, it looks like these screem bugs have never been triaged
<Fujitsu> edubuntu must be about the worst part of main to live in.
<LaserJock> I just found one with lots of info and an upstream bug report
<LaserJock> but there's been no triage
<LaserJock> and it's from 2006-09-23
<minghua> Heh.  My impression is that main has always been a mess.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Don't forget LaTeX. :-P
<Fujitsu> minghua: Ah, that too.
<LaserJock> ugggggg
<LaserJock> don't even mention TeX
 * Fujitsu decides he should probably do a practise exam, so runs off for 1.5 hours.
<LaserJock> at least upstream does some stuff in LP
<LaserJock> although they're pretty disgusted about it
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: True, he is being useful.
 * Fujitsu will attack ~motuscience and ~ubuntu-tex bugs in a couple of weeks.
<LaserJock> great
<persia> Got it.  "sitecopy_site->remote_isrel = ( string[ 0 ] == (gchar) '~' );"
<LaserJock> were you able to test it?
<persia> LaserJock: I couldn't make it fail before, but I've just been reading the C spec again, and it reports that if the types of the operands for == are not identical, it tries a series of things, none of which seem to be ideal.  Casting makes the nature of the test we want explicit, and the gtk docs seem to indicate that gchar is better than char to avoid issues in the future.
<warp10> Hi all!
<persia> (I'm suspecting is has something to do with multibyte support and some strange corner case, but I'm unsure enough that I'll consider it an upstream bug, rather than uploading directly)
<persia> (Also, I need to test and make sure I didn't break my current set of test cases)
<LaserJock> hmm, #0  0xffffe410 in __kernel_vsyscall ()
<persia> LaserJock: That's clearly a userspace call convention error.  Back up lots of steps.
<persia> i.e. The program is passing the wrong data to the kernel
<LaserJock> hmm, well it's an odd bug
<LaserJock> the reporter says that he can't add any tags from the menu, screem becomes unresponsive
<Zelut> does anyone know what package controls hardware volume keys in gnome?
<LaserJock> so I'm thinking if it was a widespread bug we'd see more dups/comments
<LaserJock> so maybe I'll just ask if it's still going on (it's from september 2006)
<persia> Zelut: I think most bugs of that type are being filed against "control-center", but that's no guarantee it's the right package.
<Zelut> persia: ok.  I'm going through my outstanding bugs and trying to make sure they are assigned to the right package.
 * persia grumbles that someone stole my Debian menu and stuffed "Other" with too much stuff.
<LaserJock> oh man, "Other" is a mess
<LaserJock> I spent forever cleaning it out the other day
<persia> LaserJock: There used to be a "Debian" menu which pulled out most of it, but that appears to be gone.
<LaserJock> hmm, I still have it
<persia> LaserJock: Also, I can insert tags for my shiny custom extra patche screem
<LaserJock> ok, well I'm done with bugs for tonight I think
<LaserJock> I didn't even quite get through half of screem
<persia> LaserJock: Blame that on digging so deeply into 128903.  While we didn't end up letting you get an "Aha!" moment, I hope you're more confortable with stack traces.
<LaserJock> yes, definately
<somerville32> Me too
 * persia cheers, and hopes for a wave of patches
<imbrandon> we need this kid working for ubuntu , serouisly , http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4913196365903075662&hl=en
<persia> imbrandon: savants have better things to do, no?  Much of what we do it repetitive, and, while worthwhile, not exciting.  I'd rather a savant upstream who generates intuitive frameworks to provide for a different generation of UI (and, no, this doesn't mean bling)
<somerville32> Is that the toilet seat kid?
 * Hobbsee plays more with compiz, and avoids the assigment
<persia> LaserJock: Just for fun, screem upstream as removed the uploadWizard entirely : apparently it was broken :)
<somerville32> Hmmm... why no sound with flash in Firefox :/
<LaserJock> persia: oh really?
<LaserJock> persia: do we have that in hardy yet?
<persia> LaserJock: I just looked at upstream CVS, and everything under ./plugins/uploadWizard had been deleted.
<LaserJock> k
<persia> LaserJock: No.  hardy source has the files: I'm not sure there's been a release: I just usually check CVS before I file a bug.
 * persia goes back to the screem site
<persia> LaserJock: Nope.  Upstream still recommends 0.16.1 as the stable suite, whereas development (including the deletion) is in 0.17
<somerville32> Crazy. I closed firefox but firefox-bin is still running and eatting up 40% of my memory :)
<persia> somerville32: epiphany and konqueror are pretty good.
<ion_> Iâm enthusiastically waiting for the webkit version of epiphany.
<somerville32> Is Emmet a guy or a girl?
<persia> ion_: Do you really think webkit is that much better?  I find gecko epiphay renders faster than Safari, but that could be a wrapper.
<RAOF> ion_: I'll settle for epiphany-on-xulrunner-1.9
 * persia thinks somerville32 is asking personal questions
<somerville32> I just like to use proper pronouns
<ion_> Iâve been under the assumption that webkit is more lightweight than gecko.
<RAOF> somerville32: "they" and "their" works quite nicely :)
<LaserJock> somerville32: I know what you mean, it annoys me
<somerville32> RAOF: They and their are plural, not singular
<LaserJock> RAOF: I don't think that's generally considered good form in english
<persia> ion_: It should be, and the memory footprint is smaller, but I also don7t like waiting for render.
<persia> somerville32: There's also alternate constructions, such as "Cody wrote a blog entry, in which is it was said that ..." (rather than "$pronoun said..." in a second sentence.
<persia> s/is it/it/
<RAOF> LaserJock: Nah.  Only since some blokes decided to arbitrarily say that's bad grammar some time in the early 19th century :P
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, it's just harder to write that way
<Hobbsee> can someone poke me?
<Hobbsee> or say my nick?
 * persia pokes Hobbsee
<LaserJock> RAOF: no, it is a plural form
<elmargol> can epiphay now use webkit?
<Hobbsee> ah, thanks
 * Hobbsee pokes persia back
 * LaserJock tickles Hobbsee 
 * Hobbsee tickles LaserJock, and locks him in her cube.
<LaserJock> hmm
 * Hobbsee wants the aquarium plugin for the cube, though
 * LaserJock uses his CO2 laser to cut a hole in the cube
<persia> Lots of LaserJocks, all swimming for the biscuit?
<somerville32> Oh wait... Persia is Emmet. :/
<somerville32> Sorry, talking about someone in third person while they are here is kind of rude.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: It's quite easy to build-from-git, assuming that it builds at all :)
<Hobbsee> yeah well
<Hobbsee> it seems like we've only got an old version of the most unofficial plugins pack
<RAOF> What?  We have a version of that *at all*?
<pwnguin> the problem is that third person in english lacks a singular version disctinct from the plural
<Hobbsee> compiz-fusion-plugins-unsupported, i think
<Hobbsee> yeah
<persia> pwnguin: No, it has four: "he", "she", "it", and "one"
<Hobbsee> hm, maybe it's gone now
<pwnguin> actually, in this case, it's merely gender
<pwnguin> it
<somerville32> it is genderless
<pwnguin> right
<somerville32> But it is rather demeaning to refer to someone as an it.
<pwnguin> a person is not genderless
<somerville32> It is used pretty exclusively for inanimate objects or inferior species.
 * jussi01 pokes persia
<RAOF> Hobbsee: I'm pretty sure that's not in any of *our* archives.  It was in various 3rd party thingies.
<persia> jussi01: Yes?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: hm.
<imbrandon> what about furry as a gender? or is that only in SL ?
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> there was something i couldnt install :)
<pwnguin> thats kickban worthy
<Hobbsee> heh.  chug chug chug, when rotating cube with the water going
<RAOF> Hobbsee: p.u.c doesn't think that there's a compiz-fusion-plugins-unofficial :)
<Hobbsee> odd.  there was definetly something.
<persia> compiz-plugins-extra?
<pwnguin> RAOF: hardy?
<somerville32> I've never actually used compiz :/
<RAOF> pwnguin: Is yet to be installed on any system that I could test stuff on?
<somerville32> It sounds fun.
<pwnguin> i recall hobbsee trying to upgrade to hardy
<pwnguin> somerville32: until the fire plugin reaches stable, it's one part fun two parts frustration
 * jussi01 doesnt like compiz
<RAOF> Hm.  Actually, how sane would it be to take an LVM snapshot of my current gutsy-root and update that to Hardy?
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: trying?  i suceeded.
<RAOF> jussi01: Why not?
 * somerville32 upgrades to giddy goose.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: my fire works fine - it's my annotate that crashes X!
<pwnguin> heh
 * RAOF never quite got the point of annotate.
<pwnguin> its really quite handy if you have a tablet
 * jussi01 mentions ati, slowness and general annoyingness factors to RAOF
<pwnguin> draw on anything!
 * Fujitsu prefers firepaint.
<pwnguin> also nifty: drawing with fire
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: here too
<RAOF> Multicoloured, smokey fire.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: compiz-compcomm-plugins-main
<pwnguin> im a bit sad that there isnt a Satanic Edition theme for compiz
<pwnguin> a 5 sided workspace, fire plugin enabled, etc
<LaserJock> it'd be appropriate
 * RAOF feels a "please remove from archive" bug coming on
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> yes, i think so
<LaserJock> compiz is from the devil
<Hobbsee> hey now!  compiz is nice!
<pwnguin> its devilicious!
<Hobbsee> assuming it doesnt crash
<LaserJock> ...
<pwnguin> actually, compiz still lacks polish
<LaserJock> that's a might big assumption
<Fujitsu> It hasn't crashed on me in months.
<LaserJock> it completely rendered my Firefox useless
<Hobbsee> ouch!
<LaserJock> other than that and the crashing it's not so bad
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: oh, you're using kde arent you?
<RAOF> It exposes *all sorts* of nvidia bugs.
<LaserJock> not presently
 * persia seconds RAOF
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> i found a cool nvidia bug
<LaserJock> yeah, it seems like "it works great if you have X, Y, Z"
<pwnguin> or maybe just an X one
<pwnguin> or totem
<persia> pwnguin: As cool as being able to move the mouse and seeing the last frame of video during a kernel panic?
<pwnguin> run totem fullscreen, exit fullscreen, then rotate the screen with xrandr
<persia> pwnguin: What happens?
<pwnguin> fullscreen again and it sorta fights over which rotation is correct
<Fujitsu> Xv is special.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: it does help tha ti have the same chipset as one of the devs, i'll agree :P
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What do you have?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: intel 965
<Fujitsu> Ah, 915 here, works very well. Except for lag on water + various transformations, or motion blur.
<RAOF> Motion blur.  Possibly a plugin with *negative* point.
<Fujitsu> It does prettify things if you have it set very low. Tab changes, and the like.
<RAOF> Really?
<Hobbsee> oh, ahng on
<Fujitsu> Where low is < 0.1, IIRC.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: 945, sorry.
<Hobbsee> yeah.  i dont like the motion, so killed it
<RAOF> I've never managed to set it low enough to (1) be visible, and (2) not induce motion sickness
<LaserJock> my laptop is just too junkie :/
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Too PowerBook?
<LaserJock> I was shocked when I reinstalled Gutsy and it started compiz
<LaserJock> nah, Toshiba with ATI 7000
<Fujitsu> Wow, a non-Mac.
<LaserJock> ?
<LaserJock> I've never owned a mac
<Fujitsu> Don't you mostly use Macs?
<Fujitsu> Or was that just at work?
<LaserJock> just have an iMac at work
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<LaserJock> I'm not that well off ;-)
<LaserJock> maybe next time
<LaserJock> I have a homebuilt desktop and this toshiba
<LaserJock> ok, I'm gone
<somerville32> Bye
<persia> Does anyone have a pointer to a good guide on splitting packages?  I keep hitting walls, and I'm sure there's a better solution.
<Hobbsee> ruddy thing.
<Hobbsee> it hardlocked my entire machine
<Fujitsu> Yay, g-p-m seems to now be able to deal with my backlight, since I last restarted X (first time in about 3 days).
<pwnguin> orly?
<pwnguin> in hardy?
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<pwnguin> i filed a bug on that ages ago with no response =(
<Fujitsu> Previously it just did really odd things like increasing the brightness from 0% -> 100% over a couple of minutes.
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> well, gutsy isnt that dumb
<pwnguin> it just does things like paint the screen black instead of actually turning the light off
<Fujitsu> No, that's what Gutsy did.
<pwnguin> obviously theres about a billion ways for it to go wrong
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<knights> Hi guys!
<knights> Are there any plans to integrate the alternate installer with the desktop live feature onto one CD yet? Maybe for Hardy? I don't nderstand why Ubuntu is still a 2 CD affair when I'm sure both installers could fit on the 1 CD
<minghua> knights: How are you sure?
<imbrandon> knights, the cd space is very very limited, and rember its not just putting both installers on the cd, they install in totaly diffrent ways
<imbrandon> one basicly copys the livecd to the target and then modifies from there, the other uses .debs from the cd and installs them
<imbrandon> so it wouldnt be just copy both d-i and ubiguity to the same cd
<imbrandon> i'm not saying it couldent be done, but your more likely looking at dvd size
<Fujitsu> knights: They're entirely different - you'd need both the live image and the .debs. Which would be about twice the size.
<persia> Is anyone here an Eiffel aficionado?  It appears there is a new, vastly better, smarteiffel that FTBFS in gutsy, and needs some help.
<minghua> If it FTBFS, how is it vastly better? :-P
<persia> minghua: Well, it's vastly better in lenny then...
<elmargol> Is webkit going to main?
<elmargol> Or hardy+1`
<persia> elmargol: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue is where you can get that answer
<imbrandon> i dont see an MIR for it
<persia> Or, the first.  The second is best answered by https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkit
<knights> Another thing that should be added to ubuntu is a lightweight window manager like fluxbox or icewm set up with rox filer. This woukld only require a few more megabyte of space on the CD and would be very useful to many and reduce the need for separate, lightweight distros like fluxbuntu, xubuntu etc.
<persia> knights: It's not just about the WM.  One needs to also install the applications.  Currently, there is only ~30 MB free on a 700MB CD.  It would be nice to be able to support 650MB CDs before it would be nice to add stuff.
<imbrandon> knights, sounds like you need to have a look at wiki/IdeaPool , this really isnt the place for sugestions of that calubur
<elmargol> just remove evolution it sucks anyway :D
<somerville32> lol
<knights> Can you still buy 650MB CDs?
<imbrandon> yes
<elmargol> Why not use dvd?
<knights> A 700MB CD must be about 0.01 more
<minghua> Most CD-RWs are still 650MB, if I'm not mistaken.
<persia> knights: Yes, but I've previously grabbed the wrong kind in a convenience store, and it was annoying.
<knights> You could fit a lot of apps into that extra 50MB
<persia> elmargol: Those are huge, and for most people, downloading that much is a waste of bandwidth.
<Fujitsu> We haven't supported 650MB CDs in a looong time.
<persia> Fujitsu: No, but wouldn't it be nice :)
<Fujitsu> There is never more than a couple of megabytes free.
<imbrandon> wow , you guys might be better seved on the ubuntu ML archives, all these points have been beaten to death there and here it does no good to hash them again as the decisions arent made here
<elmargol> ok 1cd basic + dvd extras
<persia> elmargol: Still a waste of bandwidth.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Have we ever?
 * persia thinks Breezy fit on 650MB
<Fujitsu> persia: I don't think so, but it's possible.
<knights> imbrandon: So what was the reasoning behind deciding not to include a lightweight window manager with ubuntu? It can't be 'we don't have enough space' as 30MB would be more than enough for fluxbox, icewm or whatever
<Fujitsu> persia: You're right.
<Fujitsu> knights: We don't have 30MB.
<persia> Fujitsu: No, you're right.  Breezy was 690MB.  Hoary was only 610 for AMD64, but that was ages ago.
<knights> I'm sure 5MB would do it
<minghua> knights: There is just no space at all.  We are usually 5-10MB over limit before release.
<imbrandon> knights, because its not a "lets put everything that will fit" decesion, its more "ok why do we need more than one WM ?"
<Fujitsu>  ubuntu-5.10-install-i386.iso         12-Oct-2005 17:25  617M
<imbrandon> knights, and it does no good to have a light wm and heavy apps, each deritive is alot more than the wm
<knights> GNOME= fully featured, bells and whistles, eats your memory, lightweight (fluxbox or whatever) for if GNOME goes tits up (a rescue option) and/or for improved performance. 2 very good reasons!
<elmargol> knights: 1GB ram costs about 20â¬ now
<imbrandon> again your beating a dead horse, if you wish to have more reasons i sugest you look over the ubuntu-devel mailing list
<imbrandon> fluxbuntu is for such a case ( as is the livecd you installed with )
<knights> elmargol: Doesn't matter how much memory costs
<knights> fluxbox etc will perform better than GNOME on a 32TB RAM machine or a 32MB machine
<elmargol> i think fluxbox will crash on a 32TB ram machine
<imbrandon> knights, great , if thats what your looking for install fluxbuntu ? whats the problem?
<knights> I just don't like like the proliferation of *buntus- its unnecessary
<imbrandon> in your eyes maybe, thats why i sugested you educate your self
<Fujitsu> I just don't like the proliferation of WMs on the Ubuntu CDs - it's unnecessary
<imbrandon> anyhow this isnt the place for it
<knights> I would love to say- 'just get ubuntu' instead of 'check this flowchart to see which ubuntu is the best for you' or whatever
<elmargol> I still think we should have ubuntu core (on a cd) + wm on a second cd/dvd
<jpatrick> imbrandon: do you have time for a main merge?
<imbrandon> cool but i think your both still missing the point , we can sit here and talk till our faces are blue about it, NOTHING will get done either way, this ISNT THE PLACE
<imbrandon> try the ubuntu-devel-* ML
<imbrandon> jpatrick, sure
<jpatrick> imbrandon: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=kmplayer
<knights> The diffeence between the *buntus is the choice of WM mainly, but you can basically choose between heavy (ie KDE or GNOME) or light (fluxbox, e17 or whatever). We should have both on one CD.
<knights> ie a Heaby and a light
<minghua> This isn't the right place to discuss this.
<knights> fluxbox should get integrated into ubuntu and kubuntu
<imbrandon> knights, please head what i said
<imbrandon> please
<knights> sorry guys. rant over
<knights> just I was told to come here rather than in #ubuntu to discuss these y'see
<imbrandon> ubuntu is alwasy open for ideas http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IdeaPool , specs on LP and the ML, all are great places to start, but NOT here
<imbrandon> dget -x http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/kmplayer-0711031740/kmplayer_0.10.0a-2ubuntu1.dsc
<imbrandon> err
<jpatrick> in the konsole, yes :)
<imbrandon> jpatrick, looks good, doing a quick testbuild then i'll up it, thanks
<jpatrick> imbrandon: thank you
<imbrandon> np, thanks for the merge
<jpatrick> imbrandon: could you do k3b too? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=k3b
<imbrandon> jpatrick, yea lemme grab some soda and such and i'll take a look
<jpatrick> thanks very much :)
<imbrandon> probably be my last one for the night, X has really kicked my butt tonight
<imbrandon> np
<jpatrick> everyone else is trying to get kde4 to build
<imbrandon> heh yea i noticed
<imbrandon> tell them all to use the Debian Live KDE4 cd :)
<imbrandon> GRRRR
<imbrandon> this thing is ftbs on anything but i386
<imbrandon> :(
<Lutin> ScottK: ok, I'll have a look (regarding MoM/DaD differences)
<imbrandon> jpatrick, hahah o wow that was lazy ( leaving the comment insead of the change ) heheh
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | It's REVU Day.  Uploaders, announce your packages; Reviewers: add your comments.
<nand_> yeah!
<nand_> I'd like a review of the following upload please : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=422
<nand_> (particulary on the why it suddently doesn't want to upload the source anymore...)
<persia> nand_: Are you using `debuild -S -sa`?
<nand_> I am using 'debuild -S'
<nand_> persia: what is -sa?
<persia> nand_: That's why.
<nand_> persia: ok thx!
<persia> nand_: For REVU, always use -sa.  For preparing a patch, never use -sa.
<nand_> persia: ok! Should i reupload right now for you?
<persia> nand_: Please
 * persia seeks another review request
<imbrandon> rember the maintainer must be a ubuntu address too
<nand_> imbrandon: I don't have one. what should i put?
<persia> nand_: You probably want to set the Maintainer to "Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>", and use XSBC-Original-Maintainer for your name.
<imbrandon> ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> yup as persia said
<nand_> persia: imbrandon: ok
<persia> imbrandon: With the lintian runs happening now, the string before the address is suddenly important.
<Fujitsu> Yes, or I get annoyed when the reports have 20 different names for MOTU.
<imbrandon> hrm , it is ?
<minghua> Picky lintian. :-)
<persia> minghua: It's hard to sort by maintainer when the spelling of the name keeps changing
<minghua> (which reminds me that I should backport Fujitsu's lintian back to my gutsy system)
<imbrandon> also its still complaingin about hardy it looks like
<minghua> persia: Really?  Doesn't dd-list sort by email?
<Fujitsu> minghua: No, it uses name as an index.
<Fujitsu> Not email + name, just name.
<Fujitsu> I was rather surprised too.
<persia> imbrandon: Are you looking at a new upload, or an older one?
<imbrandon> i thought a new one, maybe not
<minghua> Hmm.
<imbrandon> did i install it before  November 03 01:10
<imbrandon> ?
<persia> imbrandon: My logs aren't ideal, but it looks like about 11 hours ago.  I don't know what that means in comparison to your timestamp.
<rexbron> persia: still looking for a revu request?upid 445
<persia> rexbron: can't click that :)
<rexbron> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=445
<rexbron> This is a completely different, and proably more troublesome package
 * persia wonders about the progress of the official lintian backport
<persia> rexbron: That's kinda big :)
<rexbron> persia: err, I realized there are some errors in the rules file
<rexbron> afaik, it works files
<rexbron> fine
<persia> In openlibraries?
<rexbron> it's the dh_shlibsdeps lines
<rexbron> should refernece python2.5
<rexbron> or better yet, a variable
<persia> rexbron: Quick  Upload another rev :)
<rexbron> brb
 * nand_ enters a electromagnetic cloud, perturbing uploading wifi waves.
<imbrandon> persia, just waiting on ubuntu-archive to do their thing ( 2 times a week iirc ) Bug #159911
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159911 in gutsy-backports "backport lintian" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159911
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks.  This session will be a little bumpy, but we should be good for next week.
<rexbron> How often are revu days going to happen?
<imbrandon> bout once a week
<rexbron> That is a very nice thing to read
<persia> rexbron: That only applies until Feature Freeze.  At that point, REVU gets quiet again.
<rexbron> That is fine
<rexbron> It is just really nice to see attention being given to new uploaders
<rexbron> more so than before
<persia> rexbron: Not really.  We had about 15 sessions for Gutsy as well.
<rexbron> oh, guess I missed all of them
<rexbron> I was not active at all that release
 * rexbron is so glad he as a c2d and 2gigs of ram. Makes these compiles fly
 * persia wants an updated linda, with support for the new menu hierarchy
 * nand_ leaves the electromagnetic clould.
<nand_> persia: here you are : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ike
<persia> Uploaders: Please announce your uploads generally.  Targeting specific MOTUs will only slow down your reviews, and get you less comments
<persia> nand_: Thanks.
<persia> imbrandon: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ike-0711041320/lintian (so it does work)
<imbrandon> persia, great
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks again for backporting that so quickly
<imbrandon> hrm the more and more i look at it why do we NOT use OpenVZ for the PPA's ( even the x86{,_64} ones ?
<imbrandon> persia, np
<imbrandon> it would give us PPC and Sparc PPA's also
<persia> imbrandon: How slow is PPC/Sparc emulation (or am I misunderstanding)
<imbrandon> no OpenVZ would run on the actual hardware just like xen on i386
<imbrandon> no emulation
<persia> imbrandon: Then, I'm still confused.  From where do we source the hardware, or does PPA just wait for the regular buildds to finish?
<imbrandon> basicly OpenVZ is OS Virtualization ( e.g. all guest os's still need to be linux , just not the SAME linux ), whereas xen is paravirtualization
<persia> nand_: FTBFS for me :(
<imbrandon> persia, the reason PPA's arent on PPC and sparc now is xen dosent run on those archs
<nand_> persia: FTBFS?
<imbrandon> thats the only reason
<ajmitch> imbrandon: security, OpenVZ has far less separation, and it was considered & dismissed as a possibility for PPAs
<persia> Fail To Build From Source
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ?
<nand_> persia: ah. Damn. I have checked with pbuilder though... I check again.
<imbrandon> from what i can see openvs has more seperation
<imbrandon> vz*
<ajmitch> everything running under 1 kernel?
<persia> nand_: Might be an architecture-specific thing.  Let me know if you want a buildlog
<nand_> persia: I'd like please.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, proc sys etc are all still virtualized though, xen in very similar in that respect, it still has one main dom kernel
<ajmitch> yes, 1 dom0, but accessed through the hypervisor
<ajmitch> anyway, I'm only on to check mail before bed
<ajmitch> good night
<imbrandon> gnight
<Fujitsu> Night ajmitch.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Xen domUs have their own kernel, so are a lot more seperated.
<persia> nand_: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43236/
<nand_> persia: thanks.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ok and the loss vs the gain from that is ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: A kernel exploit in Xen can probably not escalate to the dom0.
<imbrandon> e.g you loose all non x86 arches and gain what? rember there is no shells this is a buildd
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Remember that anybody can upload arbitrary code to it.
<imbrandon> sure and be tracked as long as they have become an unbuntuero and everythng else
<nand_> persia: oh I know. Stupid thing. I have a empty file (which used to contains some overrides) and it was not grabbed by the diff.
<persia> imbrandon: It's trivial to do that anonymously.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Be tracked? riiight.
<persia> nand_: Yep.
<nand_> persia: I update quickly.
<Fujitsu> I can generate a key and (once PPA is out of beta) upload hostile code in a matter of seconds.
<persia> nand_: Don't be so quick as to not test the build.
<persia> Fujitsu: Even in beta, it's only a couple days
<Fujitsu> persia: They want a real name, but that's also trivial to fake, I guess.
<persia> Fujitsu: Some Person's real name.
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<imbrandon> ok sure but i dont see OpenVZ as being any less secure than xen at all in the real world, look how many commercial hosts there are on OpenVZ compared to Xen
<persia> Hi.  My Name is Grant William Johnson.  I'll be your guest speaker tonight on the value of the Web-of-Trust, and we'll have a keysigning later.
<Fujitsu> Security in PPA is absolutely critical. At least ~ubuntu-dev is vaguely trusted, and the people are known.
<Fujitsu> persia: Haha.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I trust the Canonical sysadmins.
<Fujitsu> They really do know what they are doing.
<imbrandon> yea but i was there for the disscussions it wasent even brought up, i trust no one blindly
<Fujitsu> (I can imagine that some hosts probably use OpenVZ because it doesn't require static memory sizing)
<imbrandon> xen was the first sugestion and it was run with
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, nah most use it because of its proven track record vs a new tech like xen
<persia> Umm.  Just in case the uploaders are around, I've updated apt-mark-sync, livemix, and easycrypt.
<persia> Reviewers: if you complete a review, please announce it so that the uploader may respond.  If you advocate a package, please ask for a second advocate.
<persia> imbrandon: Any ideas why I might get a 403 on http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/emelfm2-0711041320/emelfm2-0.3.5/COPYING ?
<imbrandon> persia, strange , umm no
<persia> imbrandon: Does it work for you?
<imbrandon> no 403 here also
<persia> Interesting...
<Fujitsu> You should be able to ssh in a poke around.
<imbrandon> i know .changes are set that way
<imbrandon> ...
<Fujitsu> *and
 * rexbron really needs to beter understand why some varible substition work in rules files and other don't
 * Fujitsu is tired, apparently.
<persia> .changes I can understand, especially if someone in ubuntu-dev is using REVU, but without reviewing COPYING, it's a little tricky...
<imbrandon> hehe me also, its time for bed, gnight all ( persia you should have ssh access to poke it if you like , just probably not sudo )
<persia> rexbron: Remember that you're dealing with make variables.
<geser> persia: COPYING is a symlink inside the orig.tar.gz
<persia> imbrandon: It's been broken forever, but I can download the tar.gz.  Have a good night.
<imbrandon> persia, ssh access == <lp-id>@sparky.ubuntuwire.com , using the keys on LP
<imbrandon> ok gnight
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Isn't it like 6am?
<imbrandon> yea 615
<persia> geser: Ah.  That's it then.  Still, I'd think REVU would follow symlinks as long as they didn't point to the parent.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> does any MOTU have time to check if my package is ready for multiverse? norsetto had a look at it some time ago
<geser> persia: lrwxrwxrwx 1 michael michael    8 2007-11-04 12:13 COPYING -> docs/GPL
<persia> imbrandon: "Permission denied (publickey).".  There's something odd about my home directory on sparky.  We'll look at it another time.
<geser> the same for INSTALL, README and WARNING
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: It's REVU day.  Announce your package URL, and the current status, and someone will take a look.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> persia: cool, i didnt know that :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> the revu link: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: It's in the /topic (always a good read)
<Kmos> Please someone look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=364 (Package: tennix)
<jpatrick> Kopfgeldjaeger: could you remove the debian/ dir from avidemux src?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> jpatrick: no
<Kopfgeldjaeger> jpatrick: its in upstream
<jpatrick> Kopfgeldjaeger: yes, inform them and remove it
<Kmos> bug 149847
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149847 in ubuntu "[hardy]  [needs-packaging] Tennix 0.4.1" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149847
<Kopfgeldjaeger> jpatrick: i shall change upstream sources?
<Kmos> startupmanager 1.9.8 hits debian archive today =)
<jpatrick> Kopfgeldjaeger: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MOTU/FAQ
<jpatrick> ^point 2.5
<persia> Kmos: From where is that tennix sourced?  The updates you made to Debian games svn are certainly not suitable.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yeah, i see... ok
<geser> Kmos: have you submitted tennix also to Debian?
<persia> geser: Debian has reverted Kmos's changes to tennix
<Kmos> geser: yes.. to mentors, but anyone looks at it
<Kmos> persia: i've submitted package tennix to debian games
<persia> Kmos: Yes.  I know.
<jpatrick> Kopfgeldjaeger: personally I rm the debian dir, retar and note in changelog
<persia> Kmos: Is this a different tennix package, or the one you preiously submitted?
<Kmos> persia: that's with my changes =) don't know what debian games changed their
<persia> jpatrick: Actually, one is required to note that in debian/copyright, and provide an automated way to repack.  Otherwise it's not trusted (can't match upstream md5sum)
<Kmos> i've it at mentors
<persia> Kmos: Right.  I'll archive it then.  Thanks.
<Hobbsee> persia: do you know if they've done a full reversion of everything?
<jpatrick> persia: hmm, that's how I was told to do it :|
<Kopfgeldjaeger> jpatrick: whats the best way to do this for me? i have a avidemux-2.4.orig folder above my working avidemux directory, how can i change the name of the source package being built?
<persia> Hobbsee: Nobody is that motivated.  It's on a package by package basis when reviewing them for upload.
<Hobbsee> ahh
<Kmos> Hobbsee: no, they don't.. u're so interested..
<Hobbsee> i hope kibi looks at pingus, and reverts anything needed, because i actually care about that one :)
<geser> Kmos: why not get it into Debian and then sync to Ubuntu?
<Kmos> geser: because I'm not part of debian games now
<Hobbsee> geser: debian took away his svn commit rights.
<persia> jpatrick: Policy changed about 6 months back, which may have something to do with the confusion (either in your mind, or the mind of the person providing you with guidance)
<Hobbsee> Kmos: you know, you really should answer to their emails, too.
<Kmos> so i'll remove it from mentors
<geser> Hobbsee: ah
<jpatrick> persia: ok, noted
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i've made the latest patch for pingus 0.7.2 to put it working.. check changelog
<Hobbsee> Kmos: did you test it?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: sure
<Kmos> =)
<Hobbsee> Kmos: as well as all the rest of them?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i also release it at getdeb.net
<persia> bddebian has a pingus in mentors closing most of the Ubuntu bugs, prepped for a sync.  Do we want to introduce more variation?
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: could you upload a main merge for me?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: that *doesnt* answer my question.  it's rude to sidestep questions, and to not answer to emails, you know...
<imbrandon> jpatrick, i did the 2 you asked about btw
<jpatrick> imbrandon: yes, I saw that, thanks again :)
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: depending on what it is, yes
<jpatrick> now I'm trying to get k3b-i18n in
<Kmos> Hobbsee: first e-mail's I'm not subscribed to their ML
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=k3b-i18n
<Hobbsee> Kmos: and the rest?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: some of them i answered directly by IRC to rhonda
<Hobbsee> Kmos: ah, so you didn't feel it was necessary to explain to the rest of the team as well, who were affected by your uplaods
<Hobbsee> and ubuntu, by flow-on effect.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i need to do it, i haven't time yet
<Kopfgeldjaeger> jpatrick: do you how to do that?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: yet all this time to be on irc and do packages :)
<Hobbsee> Kmos: have you realised that some of the reluctance to sponsor your changes might be due to waiting to see what you say, in regards to the mails?
<jpatrick> Kopfgeldjaeger: rename the .orig.tar.gz to repackaged1.tar.gz?
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: ew, i dont really want to touch that :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> jpatrick: ah, ok, that's a cool solution :)
 * Hobbsee knows nothing of localisations
<Kmos> Hobbsee: yeah, maybe.. but I've other personal things to do.. I'll answer it
 * jpatrick neither but... it's a merge :D
<Kmos> Hobbsee: discuss this at debian irc =)
<jpatrick> imbrandon: it's pity, a few minutes after k3b went in, it entered Debian too :(
<jpatrick> Kopfgeldjaeger: what it says on the wiki faq
<geser> Kmos: how can you have the copyright on the Debian packaging when then package was debianized by someone else?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> jpatrick: argh, sorry, then read over that
<Kopfgeldjaeger> *then i
<Kopfgeldjaeger> or misunderstood renaming
<Kmos> geser: it was first debianized, and after I fixed a lot of things to put it working.. I think it was done firstly by the author
<Hobbsee> Kmos: and since when does that give you permission to hijack the copyright?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: in the top it was thomas perl
<Kmos> in the bottom it's me
<Kmos> This package was debianized by Thomas Perl <thp@perli.net> on
<Kmos> Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:00:18 +0200.
<Kmos> ---
<Kmos> The Debian packaging is (C) 2007, Marco Rodrigues <gothicx@sapo.pt> and
<Kmos> is licensed under the GPL, see above.
<Kmos> it's hijack ?
<Kmos> the tennix package at debian games wasn't reverted.. it's the same when I touch it
<nand__> persia: Ok i have checked everything. It should be fine.
<Hobbsee> if not, it's certainly unclear.  seeing as the debianization means doing the debian packaging.
<persia> Kmos: Well, it's been claimed as intended to be reverted.  Perhaps the person working on it isn't done trying to clean it up yet.
<persia> nand__: Great.  Make another annoucement :)
<Kmos> ah ok
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i'll ask to change it
<nand__> I request a review of the following package please : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ike
 * Hobbsee pokes firefox
<Hobbsee> if i want to open *.diff in firefox, what command do i need to give it?
<Hobbsee> for some reason, it wants to ask me every timne
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: kate, I suppose?
<Fujitsu> Or gedit if you're still using the abominable GNOME.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no, i want the diff actually open *in* firefox.
<Hobbsee> like, in another tab of it
<Fujitsu> Ah.
 * Fujitsu isn't sure it'll like doing that.
<Fujitsu> Try entering firefox?
<Fujitsu> Or will it then do it again?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, it does it again
<Hobbsee> it used to do it
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure if something's borked.
<Hobbsee> hm, something's eaten my akregator settings, too
 * Hobbsee restarts X, to see if it still starts
 * Fujitsu takes that as a no.
<nand__> ^^
<persia> emelfm2 commented
<persia> DktrKranz: About bug #103481: Does hardy need something to handle Dapper -> Hardy upgrades?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 103481 in strigi "[SRU] upgrade from edgy causes file overwrite error" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/103481
<rexbron> Hey everyone! Openlibraries is now up for review. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=openlibraries
<DktrKranz> persia, didn't check. I do it now
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It didn't?
 * persia wonders if Edgy -> Gutsy upgrades are supported
<Fujitsu> persia: Erm, no.
<persia> Fujitsu: Excellent.  That makes it easier.  Thanks.
<Hobbsee> damn
<Hobbsee> it doesnt
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Mine did after I reinstalled everything... what went wrong?
<Hobbsee> only had -intel and -synaptics.  not -keyboard, -vesa, or mouse :)
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Hobbsee> which..sucks
<Hobbsee> and it's eaten part of my akregator data.
<Fujitsu> Oh, fun.
<rexbron> persia: did you see my anouncement?
<DktrKranz> persia, strigi package is available since edgy, dapper does not ship it
<persia> DktrKranz: Excellent.  So we only have to fix it for feisty.  Thanks for the investigation.
<DktrKranz> persia, since strigi is in main since gutsy (IIRC), can a MOTU upload to feisty?
<DktrKranz> *feisty-proposed
<persia> DktrKranz: Hrm.  I have no idea.  Unfortunately, my feisty chroot was eaten recently, so I'm also not in a good position to find out.
<Hobbsee> oh dear.
<Hobbsee> has it really been so long that i've forgotten how to chroot?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: sudo chroot /path/to/mount?
<DktrKranz> I have chroots and VM, so I can test almost every fix :)
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~/Desktop$ sudo chroot /media/develrelease/
<Hobbsee> chroot: cannot run command `/bin/bash': No such file or directory
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Wrong filesystem.
<Hobbsee> oh!
<persia> DktrKranz: I'm convinced of that, and I'm convinced it's the right fix, I'm just not allowed to upload without testing :)
<DktrKranz> you do right
<DktrKranz> but if you have questions on how to reproduce, I can easily point you to
<persia> DktrKranz: No, the issue is that I need to go shopping for more disks, or decide to delete lots of stuff.
<Nafallo> persia: order online :-)
<persia> Nafallo: Cheaper in the back alleys of akihabara
 * Nafallo blinks
 * DktrKranz is living with a 40gb HDD only
<persia> DktrKranz: And enough chroots to get back to Dapper?  That's impressive.
<DktrKranz> keep in mind I do not install too many software, Default setup provides me what I need (except development tools)
<persia> nand_: Is that a copyleft license?  I'm sure it's free, but it's a new one for me (ike)
<DktrKranz> and I use the rest to run VM and chroots. Boring :)
<persia> DktrKranz: Ah.  That would be it.  I have an unfortunate tendency to play games (with the associated megabytes of data)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: so X still falls over if you nuke mesa.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: The only stuff I touched was xserver-*.. what else did you kill?
<persia> Shouldn't it?  I thought that none of the drivers had a complete implementation.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: vesa is part of xserver-*
<rexbron> persia: I am going to scrap the get-orig-source rule for genpo as I can not get it to work
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Erm, you said mesa.
<Hobbsee> ah. meant vesa, sorry
 * Hobbsee tries to reboot to X
<persia> rexbron: OK.  You'll get whining on REVU, but maybe someone can create one for you (this channel is a good place to ask for help)
<Fujitsu> Heh, so close, and both very X-related.'
<persia> less copyright
<persia> Err..
<rexbron> :)
<rexbron> "Computer..." </startrek>
<persia> rexbron: Maybe, but having a useful eye tracker combined with focus-follows-mouse would make me happier.
<persia> (keystrokes go where I'm looking)
<Fujitsu> Working better, Hobbsee?
<rexbron> persia: that is actually a reall cool idea
 * rexbron is not sure how it would work in FPS's though
<Hobbsee> right.
<Hobbsee> yup
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: So removing -vesa is a no-no? I almost didn't reinstall it when I redid mine.
<rexbron> Are reviewer's going to anounce when they look at a package?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, if your intel fails.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i think it really died over the fac that it couldnt load the mouse or keyboard
<Hobbsee> although it loaded the touchpad
<persia> ike commented
<Fujitsu> Ah, yeah.
 * rexbron does not want to spam but...
<rexbron> Openlibraries is now up for review. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=openlibrariesOpenlibraries is now up for review. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=openlibraries
<rexbron> err
<rexbron> damn
<persia> rexbron: You just advertised that.  Have you uploaded again (rather, do I need to download again)?
<rexbron> persia: I recived no indication that it had been/ was going to be looked at
<persia> rexbron: That's normal.  Eventually, someone should say they reviewed it.  Sometimes they forget.  Asking lots of times doesn't help much, although if you haven't heard anything and there aren't any comments in 3 or 4 hours, it might be worth mentioning it again, just because people are in different timezones.
<rexbron> srue
 * persia notes that the above rules only apply during REVU days.  3-4 hours is far too often if it's not REVU day
<rexbron> Genpo is up for review. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo
<nand_> persia: I don't really know about licensing. This one, "sleepy cat", is new to me too :) I have just checked it was OSI approved.
<persia> nand_: No worries.  Because you licensed the packaging as GPL, it's nice to make sure that it is GPL compatible from the FSF site as well (it is).
<nand_> can someone tell me about what is a "watch" file?
<cyberix> Is there a REVU day coming soon?
<nand_> cyberix: right now!
<cyberix> wow
<cyberix> So I'm looking for first sponsor for my pq package. I have fixed all problems that have been brought up. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<cyberix> persia: Going to rereview my pq packet now? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<cyberix> I fixed the lintian and linda problems that came up with those switches.
<cyberix> And I'm also using debhelper for almos everything now
<persia> cyberix: It's REVU day.  You'd do best to advertise your package for anyone to review.  It might be me, but I'm in the middle of another review right now.  Also, be warned that there's a new lintian, which will add more :)
<cyberix> persia: I did, while you was away for 1 minute
<cyberix> five minutes ago
<Fujitsu> Indeed, a second after you quit.
<persia> cyberix: Ah.  Excellent then.  Sorry for the complaint :)
 * persia thinks Fujitsu would be an excellent reviewer
 * Fujitsu thinks he is studying for a final maths exam tomorrow.
 * persia revises thoughts
<Fujitsu> So I have an excuse, nyahaha.
<cyberix> Fujitsu: However irc is not that exact.
<persia> cyberix: You forget: Fujitsu has the reference clock, against which all of us lag
<cyberix> He is a Freenode admin?
<cyberix> Ok. I give up.
<persia> No, the master clock.  Even admins lag :)
<Hobbsee> persia: nz is still ahead.
<persia> Hobbsee: Yeah, well.  So's Kiribati (my reference point for starting REVU day).
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<persia> Amusingly enough, in the pacific, you can actually travel west and have to set the clocks forward.
<Hobbsee> er, shit.
<persia> !ohmy
<ubotu> Please watch your language and topic, and keep this channel family friendly.
<Hobbsee> now, if i were a usb drive, wher would i be?
<persia> Hobbsee: /dev/sdX
<persia> And maybe mounted in /media
<Hobbsee> no, no.  physically
<Hobbsee> ah, here it si.  i *didn't* put it thru the wash.
<Hobbsee> with my very important physics data for this lab report :)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Mine has been through the wash on multiple occasions and survived.
 * persia dreams of REVU preserving cookies
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, but i'd prefer nto to risk it, as i told the physics people that i'd done the report (done around half, actually), and it would look mighty silly to have to ask for access to my data again, when i'm supposed to have already handed in said report.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<ion_> Keep this channel friendly to people who never defecetate and find the act distasteful.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, i do too.  for some reasons, my hopes never turn to reality :(
<persia> Hobbsee: One of us could learn python ...
<zul> my wife has kept alot of things in her pockets during the wash, usb sticks, coins, candles, lighter...
<Fujitsu> persia, Hobbsee: Isn't it just a matter of changing the cookie expiry time from 0?
 * Fujitsu looks at the code.
 * persia cheers Fujitsu's masterful powers of procrastination
 * Fujitsu just finished a practice exam, so is having a bit of a break. THen perhaps sleeping.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah.  after the 2 assignments that were supposed to be done last week :)
<Fujitsu> Though I am truly the master of procrastination.
<Hobbsee> no you're not.
<Fujitsu> Oh, I am.
<persia> No competition now.  You can both be masters.  I've successfully deferred things for decades, so I encourage a spirit of support and encouragement.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see, it uses mod_python's Session... the cookie is set to last for 12 hours, does that sound right?
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> okay, i should revise that - i procrastinate on stuff i dont want to do :P
<persia> Fujitsu: It always kills me, even when I just crash and reboot for a few minutes (where is the new broken kernel to go with the broken X: I want a stable system again)
<Fujitsu> Ah...
<Fujitsu> Hmm.
<cyberix> How does software appear in Add/Remove?
<Fujitsu> cyberix: It provides a .desktop file, and gets picked up by a script that mvo runs regularly.
<persia> openlibraries commented
<rexbron> persia: you know how I was asking about how to remove a directory recursivly (in my case to get rid of .svn)? I wrote a python script to do it (but i am sure that someone else had already made something, I just could not find it)
<persia> rexbron: There's lots of them, but I suspect you'll get greater benefit from the "svn export" command, unless you have a particularly annoying or incompetant upstream.
<cyberix> mvo?
<persia> cyberix: The person who manages Add/Remove, and runs the inclusion script.
<cyberix> oh
<cyberix> So he has a monopoly of choosing the packages?
<persia> cyberix: They aren't chosen.  Anything that provides a valid .desktop file gets included.
 * Hobbsee would assume teh script does
<rexbron> persia: Thanks for the comments, but would I need to then list svn as a build-dep for the package
<rexbron> for the get-orig-source rule?
<persia> rexbron: No.  get-orig-source can depend on whatever it wants, as long as it's available in the regular repositories.
<rexbron> ok
<persia> (it's only ever called manually, either by maintainers or paranoid users)
<rexbron> lol
<rexbron> persia: more clarifcation, should the get-orig-source rule just export the svn check out or should it package it up into a tarball?
<persia> rexbron: It's not all funny.  Pity the poor sysadmins who have to trace the cryptographic history of everything before installing it on their corporate systems, just because some intern thought it was a good idea when helping to draft some policies.
<rexbron> O.o
<rexbron> That sounds like personal experience
<persia> rexbron: get-orig-source should produce an orig.tar.gz which matches the orig.tar.gz used to build the package.
 * Fujitsu pokes through mod_pythons internals.
<Fujitsu> It seems that the specified timeout isn't actually used client-side - the cookie always expires at the end of the browser session.
<rexbron> persia: but in this case, it is an svn checkout, so would it be acceptable to pull the lastest svn?
<persia> rexbron: Ideally, you'll know which revision you are packaging, and pull that revision.
<Fujitsu> IIRC, I've seen some packages with a variable in debian/rules specifying the revision.
 * rexbron has had issues with variable in debian rules not behaving
 * cyberix hopes his desktop file is valid enought
<cyberix> Atleast it works
<persia> I've also seen packages that play with the changelog version to get a date, and pass the date to SVN
<Fujitsu> cyberix: Run desktop-file-validate over it?
<persia> cyberix: It's not.  Try desktop-file-validate
<Fujitsu> Do we attempt to inforce HIG-compliance of .desktops?
<Fujitsu> *enforce, damnit.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes, but we don't like to maintain .desktop patches enough to not push upstream and to Debian.  Consider us to be likely to complain, rather than likely to fix it (although new contributors often do)
<Fujitsu> Right, I meant only those we already carry a delta for. Good.
<rexbron> persia: re 5), the reason there is a hard dependancy in a python version is due to libboot-python only being available on one version of python (2.5). Is there somewhere I can document that reason?
<cyberix> Any flags?
<persia> rexbron: I don't know of one, but python-support has a handy mechanism to force the version without you needing to put it all over the rules file.  That way when libboost-python transitions to 2.6, it's easier to transition the package.
<persia> cyberix: no
<persia> cyberix: More verbosely, it's at maximum verbosity by default.
<persia> pq commented.  Everything *must* be built from source.
<rexbron> persia: I will look into it
<persia> rexbron: If you can't find a solution, having the references to 2.5 won't block advocation - it's the other things that really need help.
<rexbron> persia: again, if libboost-python was build for all supported versions of python, then this would be less of a problem
<rexbron> also re 1) I though that --disable-rpath in the configure script was taking care of that
<persia> rexbron: Yes, but libboost-python has internal issues that make that difficult.  I've tried, as have others, and it's just not something that works sanely.
<persia> rexbron: It may be supposed to be doing that, but it's not working :(
<joejaxx> imbrandon: how did the Xvesa stuff go?
<deadwill> yo!
<cyberix> Does the order of entries in desktop-file matter?
<persia> cyberix: No, but convention is to have the Name near the top, and Categories near the bottom.
<cyberix> persia: Building from source might be a bit hard because the software is freeware and I'm targetting it for Multiverse.
<jpatrick> can someone explain to me how a package FTBFS with "dh_iconcache: Command not found" when debhelper is in the build deps?
<Fujitsu> jpatrick: That's in Ubuntu? Or Debian?
<cyberix> persia: An upstream change log is also not available under a free license
<jpatrick> Fujitsu: ubuntu
<persia> cyberix: If the source is open, you should be able to build it.  If the source is closed, it's not a good candidate for multiverse (that's restricted, and restricted is not open to new software without an approved spec)
<StevenK> jpatrick: Change it to dh_icons
<persia> jpatrick: dh_iconcache is deprecated.
<jpatrick> it is done by cdbs tho...
<cyberix> persia: Wow. Never realized software in Multiverse needs to have source available.
<persia> StevenK: Did you still want a log?  I think you were around for all the good bits.  Also, do you want a bug about using the new menu hierarchy?
<StevenK> persia: I'll read the log at some point, thanks. Um, bug for which package?
<persia> jpatrick: If CDBS is using dh_iconcache, that's a bug in CDBS.  A patch would likely be very welcome.
<persia> StevenK: linda
<persia> (to check)
<cyberix> persia: This implicates that there are packages in Debian non-free that aren't qualified for UBuntu at all.
<StevenK> persia: Please
<cyberix> right?
<jpatrick> persia: it's cos all my knight builds failed because of that
<persia> StevenK: OK.  I'll dig through lintian a bit, and send something to the BTS
<StevenK> persia: Works for me, thanks
<persia> cyberix: Can you give me an example?
<Fujitsu> Building from source isn't a requirement for multiverse.
<Fujitsu> Things like vmware-player and acroread didn't.
<Fujitsu> But they were fairly important.
<persia> Fujitsu: No?  We'd ship a .exe file without source?
<Fujitsu> persia: Can you see Adobe distributing acroread's source?
<persia> Fujitsu: Hrm.  Good point.  I'm confused then: I thought that everything was supposed to be built, rather than precompiled and put in multiverse.  Oh well.
<Fujitsu> The only requirement for multiverse is, as far as I know, redistributability. However, I would be very disinclined to include further non-free binary-only sources unless they're very important to users.
<Fujitsu> s/sources/software/
<cyberix> Fujitsu: Is there a policy document about this somewhere?
<Fujitsu> cyberix: I don't think it is defined properly anywhere public, no.
 * persia isn't sure it's defined properly anywhere private either
<cyberix> If it really isn't ok, I could go for Medibuntu, but I just don't want to be unlucky while other non-free nonessential packages are taken to Multiverse.
<Fujitsu> persia: The archive admins probably have a secret document.
<persia> Fujitsu: Hmmm....  I thought they operated by mind-meld consensus, but you may be right.
<Fujitsu> cyberix: Do you have example of something that isn't from Debian and isn't rather important, but is binary-only?
<Fujitsu> I seem to be losing articles... I must head off to bed shortly.
<persia> cyberix: Most of the non-free nonessential stuff that goes into multiverse is at least sourceful, if non-free.  I still think Wine-doors is the solution to this specific issue.
<cyberix> Not without searching
<Fujitsu> Oh, it's a real PE .exe?
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.
<Fujitsu> Yuck. Wine-Doors sounds good.
 * cyberix started to do this just because he would like to apt-get do the stuff
<cyberix> And not have to care about something like Winedoors
<Fujitsu> I also don't like the idea of having Windows binaries in the archive because they're liable to break on Wine upgrades.
<persia> cyberix: The advantage of wine-doors is that it works for all distributions, so everyone can benefit, not just Ubuntu.  Further, it's much easier to get software into Wine-doors.  The disadvantage is that wine-doors doesn't work properly by default in Ubuntu.
<cyberix> Maybe one day someone will do apt-get integration for Winedoors
<cyberix> While waiting, I'm having my package available as a deb.
<cyberix> Fujitsu: But this is ofcourse the right model to report bugs for wine upstream
<cyberix> from pq launchpad section to Wines bugzilla
<cyberix> instead of having all bug reports go throught wine package
<cyberix> This makes it also possible for the package to distinguish between wine bugs and bugs in the original software
<cyberix> and to split the reports
<cyberix> to both upstreams accordingly
<cyberix> Winedoors is more like a kludge imho
<cyberix> Pushing the problem away.
<cyberix> I was thinking that Medibuntu is for stuff that cannot be legally distributed/used in some regions and Multiverse is for stuff that can be legally distributed/used everywhere.
<cyberix> But of course it would make sense to discuss this publicly.
<cyberix> "What is Multiverse for?"
<cyberix> Should it be broad or should we try to get rid of it.
<cyberix> Either option is ok to me
<cyberix> I just want it to be clear.
<cyberix> However I'm skeptic that proper Ubuntu integration is possible at Winedoors level.
<cyberix> So there should be a repository for stuff like pq.
<persia> cyberix: I'm not sure anyone disagrees with you about that, but I doubt anyone present is in a position to make a declarative statement that means anything.  Personally, I'm in favor of eliminating multiverse, but this would take a while.
<cyberix> Which one, doesn't really matter.
<persia> genpo commented
<Fujitsu> I'd like to see multiverse eliminated too, but that's not going to happen in the near future. However, we can try to minimise it.
<cyberix> persia: That would make sense, if Ubuntu targets to finally make FSF happy someday, as someone suggested on Gobuntu development list.
<cyberix> I'm following that too.
 * cyberix is holding the free software flag high, yet optional.
<Fujitsu> I don't really want multiverse to become a dumping ground for all software which isn't free.
<persia> cyberix: As I see it, Multiverse is mostly for software for which we can see the source, but either not everyone can use it, or not everyone can patch it.  more, open-source software that may not be DFSG-free.  Putting closed binaries there disturbs me, because it means that I no longer can find out what my system is doing.
<Fujitsu> persia: Good point.
<persia> Further, I'd like to avoid integration that makes it significantly easier to distribute random .exe files and expect them to work, because there's lots of software out that that might try to do things that I don't intend.
<persia> At least with Wine-doors, the user is taking a deliberate step to make their system more Windows-compatible, and it is the wine-doors team, and not me, that they choose to trust.  if it breaks, I am unlikely to be held responsible.
 * Fujitsu is really off to bed now.
<Fujitsu> Night all.
<persia> I agree there is a place for a repository of freeware, and I believe this to be especially true for games (as an avid user of dosbox and similar programs).  I'm not sure what that repository should be, but I'm fairly sure that any specific free software distribution isn't the ideal place.
<persia> Good night Fujitsu.
 * cyberix bows.
<persia> cyberix: Please don't take that as an official statement: my opinions do not necessarily reflect those of the Ubuntu project.
<cyberix> I don't, but it makes sense. Thats more important to me.
 * cyberix hopes persia would get to decide.
<persia> cyberix: In that case, Thanks :)
<cyberix> But now I have to find that freeware repository and I'm going to ask Medibuntu first.
<cyberix> Even, if it is not the correct place either.
<cyberix> Maybe they have some usefull comments.
<persia> cyberix: Good luck.  There's a couple random repos out there, but a nice, well managed one, with clean integration for both Windows and Wine would likely be well received.
<cyberix> I wouldn't want to make it Windows specific
<cyberix> I think there are some really cool Freeware NES, DOS, ... games out there.
<persia> cyberix: Ah.  Good point.  Don't forget MAME.
<cyberix> :-)
<rexbron> persia: does using a versioned -dev package matter if it has a Provides: field?
<persia> rexbron: Yes and no.  It's technically policy compliant, but I don't prefer it.  The reasoning behind my preference is that in case there's a significant change to the -dev package that doesn't break API, there's no way to have a versioned build-depends against a virtual package.
<rexbron> ok
<persia> annchienta commented
<rexbron> persia: I have found where rpath is being set (m4/boost.m4) but have no idea if LD_LIBRARY_PATH is set elsewher...
<rexbron> or if there is a drop in replacement for rpath
<persia> rexbron: As I understand things, -rpath doesn't quite work as expected in Debian-based systems.  You could either add a patch to set $LD_LIBRARY_PATH, or just install the libraries as normal system libraries (unless you expect them to break something).
<rexbron> persia: tbh, I do not know really what would make them normal system libraries, nor how that could break things...
<cyberix> persia: Ok. I think I'll write a "Beerbuntu repository" blueprint.
<persia> rexbron: For normal system libraries, just stick them in /usr/lib, set the SONAME sensibly, and call ldconfig in the postinst.  This could break things if there is a symbol collision with other libraries, but that usually requires intention.  It could also break things if there is a file conflict, but if you follow the rule that the package name matches the library name, and you don't have a package conflict, this shouldn't happen.
<cyberix> ;-)
<persia> cyberix: Interesting idea.  I'm not so sure about the buntu part, just for trademark reasons, but it's definitely a catchy name.
<cyberix> I was trying to ask, if the order of _categories_ in desktop-file matter?
<persia> cyberix: No, but the convention is to start with the Main category, and then add any Additional categories.  See the spec for details as to which is which.
<jroes> what package provides the C standard library (stdio.h, etc.)?
<persia> jroes: Your best tools to find that answer are dpkg -S and apt-file.  I suspect you'll find it in one of the glibc binaries
<jroes> ah, apt-file, cool.  thanks
<geser> jroes: libc6-dev
<jroes> was hoping someone would tell me how to search for providers :)
<geser> if you want to compile then install build-essential
<geser> jroes: you can also use packages.ubuntu.com to search in which package a file is
<calc> jroes: or download the Contents-(arch).gz file
<calc> and grep it
<calc> i just found a bug...
<calc> there is no Contents file for hardy
 * rexbron is wanting to cry over openlibs packaging....
<rexbron> damn thing makes my head hurt
<rexbron> is there a way to make pbuilder not have to recompile when tweaking things like install files?
<azeem> rexbron: maybe you can send it a suspend signal during build, then chroot into the build and work there; then finally resume
<azeem> pretty hackish though, I guess there's an official solution
<Amaranth> or just build it without pbuilder until you get it ready then use pbuilder for the final run
<rexbron> I may end up doing that
<sistpoty> hi folks
<geser> Hi sistpoty
<persia> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi geser
<sistpoty> hi persia
<geser> rexbron: you can also login into pbuilder and build from there (but don't forget to save your changes also outside the pbuilder)
<cyberix> persia:
<cyberix> persia: Just found out that packaging most freeware is illegal.
<cyberix> persia: Because they usually don't permit modification,.
<persia> sistpoty: Does the clarification to the REVU order rules make sense?  I'm a bit fuzzy, and not sure if I should be formalising it in the morning, or if you've something on which you can decide on whether it is possible to implement.
<rexbron> geser: basically, run debuild -B from inside the pbuilder?
<cyberix> persia: Do there is no point in Beerbuntu, because pq is just an exception that allows packaging.
<persia> cyberix: I'm not sure how it makes it illegal, as long as you don't actually modify it.  The trick is to create a structure that delivers a binary-identical upstream package, and then adds a support structure in parallel.
<geser> rexbron: yes
<sistpoty> persia: need to think about this myself, but I guess it is possible to implement that way
<persia> (assuming the license permits unlimited distribution)
<cyberix> persia: Maybe so. But I'm not sure, if you're even allowed to change the directory layout.
<cyberix> persia: So you'd have to distribute exactly the original, say zip-file or Windows installer.
<persia> cyberix: Interseting.  Probably needs some thought, and maybe a consultation with counsel.
<rexbron> geser: perhaps a silly question, but where are the source packages stored in the pbuilder?
<cyberix> I suppose you're allowed to run the installer because that seems to be intention of the publisher.
<persia> sistpoty: OK.  Just wanted to make sure I had actually expressed my idea before I slept  Thanks for the confirmation.
<geser> rexbron: you have to copy it by hand into the running pbuilder (usually below /var/cache/pbuilder/build/)
<cyberix> I'm not sure, if one would by default be restricted to even distribute the archive/installer within an other installer or archive.
<cyberix> :-/
<cyberix> I created mime-files. How do I tell my system to reread them?
<sistpoty> cyberix: maybe dh_installmime creates the correct postinst snippets for this, not too sure though
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<geser> sistpoty: how was UDS?
<sistpoty> geser: very interesting, and pretty cool
 * sistpoty is still recovering from jetlag *g*
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<bddebian> siretart: D00d, I cannot get Fuddl to respond about scorched3d.  Do you know if he is on holiday or something?  Or does my reputations just precede me? ;-)
<sistpoty> hm... how can I convince gpg to export only one uid for a given key?
<siretart> bddebian: yes, he was this weekend on a lanparty, I've seen him a few hours ago
<bddebian> siretart: Ah, OK thx
<siretart> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<bddebian> siretart: Next time you "see" him, would you mind poking him about scorched3d?  I'm happy to work on it I just want to make sure he is OK with it.  And I need to know the dfsg status.
<siretart> bddebian: I've asked him yesterday about that
<siretart> bddebian: he has committed some patches for the new upstream version, but it seems to be a bit crashy at least on amd64
<bddebian> Oh, OK
<siretart> bddebian: the apocalypse mod is under a non-dfsg license, so that part probably has to be stripped out. or packaged in a seperate source package for non-free or something
<siretart> bddebian: but he is more than happy for help, AFAIUI
<bddebian> siretart: If you say so.. ;-)
<mok0> The init.d.ex being created by dh_make is not up to standards.
<bddebian> mok0: So fix it :-)
<mok0> sure, I will do that, I am looking for input
<rexbron> is there a way in an install file to make it exclude files listed in other .install files?
<mok0> rexbron: don't think so
<siretart> mok0: please use a bugreport for collecting your thoughts
<rexbron> or can I call dh_install -x<item> <install_file>
<rexbron> then call dh_install for the rest of them
<mok0> siretart:  ok
<siretart> rexbron: sorry? dh_install will only look at package.install, AFAIUI
<rexbron> siretart: the situation is that the python extentions and the regular lib files get installed to the same dir, but need to be in seperate packages. as the python libs are less taht the regular libs it would be nice to have a way to exclude them without having to manually list all of them
<bddebian> rexbron: Build them in debian/tmp then use install files to put them in the right places ?
 * jdong tries to figure out the irony in chrooting into prevu to build a prevu builder.
<siretart> rexbron: I agree to bddebian
<geser> sistpoty: create a temporary keyring, import there the key, delete all non-wanted uid, export the resulting key
<sistpoty> geser: ah, thanks
<geser> I don't know if there is a better solution for this (an old mail suggest that no (at least at that time))
<sistpoty> I guess in the meantime, I've looked at that very mail as well *g*
<ST47> Good morning/afternoon, folks
<mok0> OK, folks, I've pastebin'ed my suggestion for a new init.d.ex at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43275/ Comments will appreciated before I submit it in a bug report
<imbrandon> joejaxx, i got it "working" and in my PPA , still needs a bit of refinement and some man pages etc before official upload
<imbrandon> but its atleaste building correctly now etc
<imbrandon> both Xvesa and Xfbdev KDrive servers
<imbrandon> siretart, ping ( just FYI i manualy backported hardy's lintian on sparky )
<siretart> imbrandon: thanks!
<imbrandon> np
<imbrandon> ohhhhhhhhhh the eeepc's are finaly available publicly ? NICE
<warp10> Hi all!
<ivoks> i have a question about debian policy; is it ok to change configuration file or conffile of already installed package in tasksel postinst script of some task?
<siretart> ivoks: I'm inclined to say its not, but you might want to ask this on #debian-devel/oftc
<mok0> !tell mok0 about #439561
<mok0> !tell mok0 about Bug: #439561
<RainCT> bddebian: hey
<ivoks> siretart: i also think that, but am not sure :/
<ivoks> siretart: what's oftc? :)
<cyberix> I managed to define mime-types for my files. Nautilus seems to understand that.
<cyberix> Now, how do I make the software open them?
<siretart> ivoks: irc.debian.org CNAMEs to irc.oftc.net
<cyberix> When they are double clicked
<ivoks> oh, ok
<mok0> ubotu, tell mok0 about Bug: #439561
<mok0> Grrr
<siretart> debian bug #439561
<ubotu> Debian bug 439561 in dh-make "dh-make: Enhancements to provided init.d template and a new LSB-compliant init.d script" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/439561
<siretart> thanks mok0
<mok0> siretart: actually, it seems the bug is fixed in hardy
<siretart> great
<ivoks> yeah... it looks like we would need meta package
<ivoks> and use tasksel just to install that package
<ivoks> or something :/
<siretart> ivoks: I fail to see how adding another package helps you work around that policy violation
<ivoks> siretart: Replaces
<ivoks> siretart: if packageA replaces packageB, then conffiles of A overwrite conffiles of B
<siretart> oh, so you want to 'hijack' conffiles from other packages? Interesting idea
<ivoks> conffiles would be the same
<siretart> execpt that you want to edit it, no?
<ivoks> it's just that i need to enable some stuff, which are off by default
<siretart> then I'd suggest modify the package so it provide a mechanism to enable stuff you need
<ivoks> yeah... it's easy with postfix, it has postconf
<ivoks> but dovecot... urgh :/
<ivoks> siretart: how was your trip back?
<siretart> ivoks: oh, horrible. but thanks for the question :)
<ivoks> mine too :/
<ivoks> flight was delayed for 2 hours
<siretart> oh darn
<ivoks> and then, when i got to milan, they didn't have time to move my baggage from one plane to the other
<ivoks> so i camed home only with laptop :D
<siretart> that happened to us on the way to boston
<ivoks> :/
<siretart> next time I will try to travel with hand luggage only, seems safer to me
<siretart> I managed to do that for sevilla
<ivoks> yeah...
<ivoks> umm... desktop people around?
<ivoks> desktop&mobile actually :)
<sistpoty> wooohooo... exim finally does what I want it to do (sending mails over ssh to rmail)
<bddebian> Hi RainCT, sorry , was away
<RainCT> bddebian: np. I merged gdmap, bug 160017 if you want to have a look a it. I was thinking I could try to do some little improvements to it, is it fine to add new changes to a merge?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160017 in gdmap "Please merge gdmap 0.7.5-3 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160017
<cyberix> What is the stuff in /usr/lib/mime/packages/
<cyberix> Is there a specification somewhere for it?
<bddebian> RainCT: Yep
<lamego> cyberix, man update-mime -> provides useful info about it
<cyberix> How are icons asigned for mime-types?
<cyberix> Never mind
<cyberix> Actually
<cyberix> update-mime says you can define an xbm icon.
<cyberix> and no software package seems to do this.
<cyberix> Don't people usually use svg-icons?
<rexbron> OpenLibraries has been updated, please review :) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=openlibraries
<rexbron> regarding that review, the rpath issue has _not_ been fixed
<nxvl> is there any way to see the changelog of a package online?
<ScottK> Yes
<nxvl> ScottK: where?
<ScottK> packages.ubuntu.com has a link to it.
<ScottK> nxvl: I'm assuming you mean the Debian Changelog, not the upstream one?
<nxvl> ScottK: yes, that's what i meant
<nxvl> ScottK: thank you i have just found it :D
<nxvl> which was the URL of DaD?
<nxvl> nevermind
<nxvl> i found it
<RainCT> bddebian: ok, new debdiff on bug 160017
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160017 in gdmap "Please merge gdmap 0.7.5-3 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160017
<nxvl> RainCT: nice!
<bddebian> RainCT: Cool, I'll check it out if someone doesn't beat me to it :-(
<RainCT> ok, thanks :)
<bddebian> RainCT: Are you expecting this to be an SRU ?
<minghua> Oh, REVU day again.
<RainCT> bddebian: do you think it should be? :)
 * RainCT will brb
<bddebian> RainCT: I typically don't do SRU's so if you don't care if it's an SRU, you need to change the distro to Hardy
<so1> hi
<so1> does someone plan to update secret maryo chronicles?
<so1> atm it's at 0.99.2 which is quite old
<so1> newest one is 1.2
<rexbron> so1: Check to see if a bug has been filed and if not, do it :)
<so1> ok
<so1> and 0.99.2 doesn't work
<rexbron> Best to mention that aswell
<so1> crashes with a devil error
<rexbron> ...?
<so1> damn ... i really need that game to increase my productivity at work!
<so1> :-)
<so1> CEGUI Exception occurred : DynamicModule::DynamicModule - Failed to load module 'libCEGUIDevILImageCodec.so': libCEGUIDevILImageCodec.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<rexbron> so1: Bug report :)
<lamego> so1, missing dependency, it needs libcegui-mk2-dev
<ScottK> so1: The best way to get a package updated is to do it yourself.  New upstream updates are generally not exremely hard to package.
<lamego> because of a packaging problem with libcegui-mk2
<so1> thanks!
<so1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smc/+bug/136435
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 136435 in smc "smc - Secret Maryo Chronicles - unmet dependency in Gutsy" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<lamego> yes, it is an old known problem :P
<RainCT> bddebian: oh, right
<RainCT> bddebian: done
<bddebian> RainCT: OK, thanks, give me a bit
<RainCT> bddebian: sure
<pochu> When I open a terminal, and do meta-left, meta-right, meta-up or meta-down, it prints A, B, C and D. Is this a bug?
<pwnguin> pochu: which button is meta?
<pochu> pwnguin: alt
<pwnguin> esc?
<pwnguin> heh, it prints something different for me :P
<pwnguin> ;3A
<pochu> lol, then it looks like a bug :)
<pwnguin> i dont think its a bug
<pochu> that looks fine...
<pochu> pwnguin: gutsy?
<pwnguin> yes
<pochu> and gnome-terminal?
<pwnguin> yes
<pwnguin> ABCD
<pwnguin> probably related to ssh / screen?
<pochu> Woops, it works now Â¿?
<pwnguin> thats what happens in my ssh+screen + irssi session
<pochu> Yes, it happens in irssi, and (IIRC) it happened to me in gnome-terminal too...
<pochu> So I thought it was gnome-terminal, or bash, or whatever's fault, and not irssi.
<pochu> pwnguin: I run irssi in gnome-terminal, so ssh and screen don't affect.
<warp10> pochu: thank you! meta-<arrow> doesn't work in my terminal like in your one, but I have just discovered that I can use it to reorder the channel list in xchat :D
<pochu> warp10: yw :) there's a bug about them not working in irssi, bug 159587
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159587 in irssi "binding meta-left meta-right meta-up meta-down does not work" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159587
<pwnguin> well there ya go
<pwnguin> warp10: i wound up checking gnome-term settings and rediscovered the transparency option
<pwnguin> it used to be really crappy fake transparencies
<pwnguin> it now does the real thing quite nicely
<bddebian> RainCT: I'm nitpicking but could you fix the make clean?  Just put [ ! -f Makefile ] ||  in front of make clean
<warp10> pwnguin: I'm just playing with it... great!
<bddebian> RainCT: Never mind, I'll just add it and upload, thanks!
<bluekuja> which package does contain the python module keyring?
<bluekuja> *gnomekeyring
<pwnguin> python module?
<bluekuja> pwnguin, yes
<pwnguin> none?
<bluekuja> pwnguin, that's why I asked. Actually there is no python-keyring
<bluekuja> package
<bluekuja> but should be included in some other gnome package
<pwnguin> libpam-gnome-keyring is the only one i care about
<bluekuja> I've installed python-gnome-dev
<bluekuja> and fixed that problem
<bluekuja> but it installs tons of package
<bluekuja> bah
<zul> network manager is default isnt it?
<bddebian> RainCT: Uploaded, thanks!
<crimsun_> zul: for all but ubuntustudio-desktop, it's a Recommends.  So, yes.
<zul> thank you redhat for fixing it for hardy ;)
<zul> )xen)
<norsetto> zul: am I wrong or the description for xen-hypervisor-3.1 is outdated?
<RainCT> bddebian: great, thanks :)
<bddebian> RainCT: No, thank YOU :-)
<norsetto> rainct, bddebian: heck thank *YOU* both
<bddebian> heh
<crimsun> yeah, thanks bddebian!
 * LaserJock ^5s bddebian 
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
<bddebian> Uhm... :-)
<RainCT> lol
<RainCT> well, good night all
<bddebian> Gnight RainCT
<joejaxx> why do people break the mailing list chain by doing that Digest, Vol5 Issue 2 nonsense :\
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> if somebody wrote some sort of mailman "fix" for that it'd be awesome
<joejaxx> i wish they did
<joejaxx> it breaks mailman and gmail's sorting
<joejaxx> and you have no idea what the post is about
<ScottK> Mailman is on sourceforge, IIRC, and is written in Python, so anyone can have a crack at it.
<LaserJock> it would be a tough problem
<LaserJock> as in some cases you have no idea what thread to attach to
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> which is why i do not know why people do it
<joejaxx> lol
<StevenHarperUK> Can someone help me: I have 4 comments on my latest submission to REVU : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=402 - and I dont understand any of them (there are 4)
<joejaxx> anyone want to look a merge i did ? :)
<joejaxx> https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~joejaxx/ubuntu/merges/flwm_1.02-2ubuntu1.MERGE.debdiff
<crimsun> argh, binary?
<joejaxx> crimsun: oh
<joejaxx> it does not display it as text?
<bddebian> StevenK: 1: Homepage is now supported in the control section.  Like right up under Standards Version and such
<crimsun> joejaxx: no
<joejaxx> grr wth
<joejaxx> hold on
<bddebian> Gah, that was for StevenHarperUK
<bddebian> StevenHarperUK: 2:  You don't seem to be installing upstreams ChangeLog file.
<StevenHarperUK> Ah I know what to do with that one
<StevenHarperUK> its my code BTW : I am upstream
<StevenHarperUK> The other 3 are confusing me : how do I resolve them
<bddebian> StevenHarperUK: 3: Are you repacking your tarball?  I'm not sure I get his point on that one either unless you are just getting an svn snapshot and creating the tarball
<crimsun> joejaxx: uploaded to hardy.
<StevenHarperUK> I am using SVN to get the source, making the tarball then packaging from that
<bddebian> StevenHarperUK: And for 4: Packages are supposed to include debian/watch files.  See man uscan
<StevenHarperUK> I do it with a std build script
<joejaxx> crimsun: ok thanks :D i need to find out why it is doing that
<joejaxx> i rather not append .txt on my debdiffs :\
<StevenHarperUK> What is the purpose of teh Watch file and do I install it or is it just in debian/watch?
<sistpoty> StevenHarperUK: with the watch file, you can easily scan for new upstream versions (with uscan). it's not installed, since a new upstream version means that the maintainer has to package it
<LaserJock> anybody got any experience with Google Code for hosting a project?
<StevenHarperUK> So basically I include it in debian/watch and thats it?
<StevenHarperUK> Sorry I don't really get what I do with the file once I have made it
<bddebian> StevenHarperUK: It lets you know of new upstream releases.  I don't know that it's required
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: you don't do anything
<bddebian> If you run uscan -report-status it will tell you if the current package is up to date
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: every once in a while you can run uscan to see if there's a new upstream version
<LaserJock> like in Debichem we have like 15 upstreams
<StevenHarperUK> Its my code I know when there is a new version
<LaserJock> so we have a script that checks once a week via watch files for new upstream releases
<StevenHarperUK> Right so its for an automated process
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: then in that case it is helpful for other people
<LaserJock> a watch file is really the only definitive way to know where the .orig.tar.gz came from many times
<bddebian> But if you are never building tarballs I'm not sure how you would do it
<StevenHarperUK> So I make  the debain/watch file and do I need to include any re fence to it Anywhere?
<bddebian> No
<StevenHarperUK> ok great
<joejaxx> time for more merges
<joejaxx> :D
<StevenHarperUK> finally : "Iâm sorry to report that dpkg behaviour has now changed, and the Homepage should be a full header, rather than in the long description" what does that mean can someone point me to the new spec
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: there's just a Homepage: field in control
<StevenHarperUK> Does it mean that I just kill the first SPACE and make it into its own section
<StevenHarperUK> Ace I get that now
<LaserJock> like Build-Depends, etc.
<StevenHarperUK> Thanks
<LaserJock> but take it out of the description
<StevenHarperUK> I have
<bddebian> Well there is still some debate on that one but I'll shut up
<StevenHarperUK> Sorry to keep going on : "This appears to be a VCS checkout, but there is no get-orig-source in debian/rules, nor mention of a repack in debian/copyright " How do I resolve this?
<bddebian> create a get-orig-source target in rules
<StevenHarperUK> I don't understand that sentence
<bddebian> http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-origtargz
<bddebian> Basically it's an additional section in Debian rules that creates the orig.tar.gz
<bddebian> Ensures that the orig.tar.gz is consistently getting created
<StevenHarperUK> But I am making the orig tar.gz
<StevenHarperUK> I whats the point of this?
<joejaxx> StevenHarperUK: so we have an untouched upstream source archive
<joejaxx> :)
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: If you're making your package from a proper tarball, then you shouldn't get that.  Are the .svn dirs (or equivalen) in the tarball?
<StevenHarperUK> No
<StevenHarperUK> I build it in its own build dir
<StevenHarperUK> there are no .svn
<StevenHarperUK> That seems like (another) pointless request : this REVU process is begging to get me down
<StevenHarperUK> I get conflicting requests from MOTU
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: What's the fill name of your tarball?
<joejaxx> is michael bienia geser?
<ScottK> joejaxx: Yes
<joejaxx> ok
<StevenHarperUK> easycrypt_0.2.1.9+svn20071103.orig
<StevenHarperUK> easycrypt_0.2.1.9+svn20071103.orig.tar.gz
<StevenHarperUK> I mean
<ScottK> So it is an svn snapshot rather than a proper release?
<StevenHarperUK> No its what the comment further up told me to call it
<StevenHarperUK> It is a proper release
<StevenHarperUK> I can remove that if I want
<StevenHarperUK> I have stopped getting ant work done on the actual package and am stuck in these packaging problems
<StevenHarperUK> *any
<StevenHarperUK> I want to get back to coding.....
<StevenHarperUK> sorry : I have to go now, I will build another version soon with the WATCH file in, thanks for  the help
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Thanks for working through it.  The first one is by far the toughest.
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: do i rename to have no +svn ?
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: would that be advisable?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: I suspect so, but I haven't reviewed your package in detail, so I'm relucant to give you advice contrary to what you've had before.
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: If I were in your shoes, I'd make a proper 0.2.1.10 release and package that.
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: I've several packages where I'm also the upstream and it can be a bit confusing trying to separate the roles of upstream and packager in your head when you're doing both.
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: I think I will : will REVU let you re-upload a package or does it have to be renamed?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: You can reupload it.
<bddebian> You can just re-upload
<StevenHarperUK> ok i will 0.2.1.10 will be next
<StevenHarperUK> thanks for the help
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: So do a release like you would do if you knew nothing about Ubuntu with a regular tar.gz and then package that.
<ScottK> No trouble.
<StevenHarperUK> I can say that the comments left on REVU could be more helpful, may of them leave no pointers on what they actually mean
<StevenHarperUK> *many
<StevenHarperUK> Ok I have to go now RL issues are now screaming for my attention
<StevenHarperUK> cya
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Different people have different levels of experience.  Both reviewers and uploaders, so it can be tough to get the communication at the right level.
<ScottK> See you.
<StevenHarperUK> bye
<joejaxx> is there a list of development packages that are useful during merges?
<joejaxx> i already have all the ones listed on the debian new maintainer docs
<norsetto> joejaxx: all you need on top of the normal dev tools is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging
<joejaxx> and ok
<joejaxx> s/and\ ok/ok/g
<crimsun> the only tool you need is sed!
<joejaxx> i do not see any packages listed there
<norsetto> joejaxx: if you find something missing or not explained clearly and/or correctly let us know
<joejaxx> crimsun: :P
<joejaxx> norsetto: i mean package wise
<norsetto> joejaxx: did you find any package in there?
<joejaxx> norsetto: nope
<joejaxx> norsetto: i do not see a list of packages there
<norsetto> joejaxx: thats right ;-)
<joejaxx> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-start.en.html#s-needprogs
<joejaxx> i have all of those already
<norsetto> joejaxx: I thought you did some merges already?
<imbrandon> joejaxx, http://ppa.launchpad.net/imbrandon/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xorg-server/xserver-xvesa_1.3.0.0.dfsg-12ubuntu8~imbrandon+xvesa4_i386.deb if you wanna mess with it , i'll probably be uploading a new version tonight sometime too
<joejaxx> i did
<joejaxx> norsetto: sorry if i am being confusing
<joejaxx> imbrandon: ok great
<ajmitch> joejaxx: you are, don't worry
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :P
<ajmitch> just grab the usual stuff, and things like patchutils, etc
<joejaxx> if the ubuntu patch for a package only has the maintain change and the changelog in the patch then that means we can drop the ubuntu changes because there are not any? (ie put in a sync request)
<imbrandon> btw moins all
<joejaxx> ajmitch: ok
<joejaxx> maintainer*
<norsetto> joejaxx: if the only ubuntu change left is the maintainer field, yes, its a sync
<joejaxx> ok nice
<joejaxx> i just want to make sure :)
<norsetto> joejaxx: so, you may need a package after all :-)
<norsetto> joejaxx: for syncs you may use requestsync, which is in ubuntu-dev-tools
<joejaxx> i like to ask questions even if i think i know the answer so i do not look like a fool later
<joejaxx> norsetto: ok
<joejaxx> i already have that installed :D
<joejaxx> dholbach told me about that package at the motu uds session
<joejaxx> pbuilder-dist is a great tool i found out about that at the session as well
<pwnguin> oh?
<joejaxx> pwnguin: yeah
<pwnguin> i cant find pbuilder-dist
<joejaxx> pwnguin: it is in ubuntu-dev-tools
<joejaxx> it keeps track of different tarballs for ubuntu releases
<joejaxx> so you can go pbuilder-dist hardy build
<pwnguin> oh
<joejaxx> or feisty build
<joejaxx> etc
<pwnguin> i was hoping for something more like parallel pbuilder
<joejaxx> hmm/
<imbrandon> there are hooks for distcc and ccache if you want
<joejaxx> s/\///g
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> you thought it was distributed pbuilder
<pwnguin> i dont think pbuilder uses dual cores effectively atm
<joejaxx> Explanation of the Ubuntu delta and why it can be dropped:
<joejaxx> ?
<jdong> joejaxx: you can run two pbuilders....
<crimsun> usually the Ubuntu changes have been obviated by Debian changes.
<pwnguin> sure, you can run multiple builds in parallel, but you need multiple packages in the queue
<joejaxx> crimsun: i am looking at alsa-oss :P can i file a sync request for it?
<pwnguin> i dont regularly work on multiple source packages at once
<joejaxx> crimsun: since you are the last person :)
<Kmos> joejaxx: it's already done
<joejaxx> Kmos: ?
<Kmos> bug 159496
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159496 in alsa-oss "Please sync alsa-oss 1.0.14-1  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159496
<joejaxx> uh
<joejaxx> no
<crimsun> joejaxx: yes.
<joejaxx> crimsun: ok :)
<crimsun> that would need to be 1.0.15-1, but yes.
<joejaxx> crimsun: yes
<Kmos> debian is having network problems :(
<joejaxx> crimsun: for base version i put the debia version right?
<joejaxx> debian*
 * sistpoty is off to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> night stefan
<norsetto> bye sistpoty
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> how long does requestsync take after you hit enter when putting a description
<joejaxx> or does it need a EOF Ctrl+D
<Kmos> joejaxx: you need a second enter
<Kmos> for an empty line
<cyberix> Should I create symlinks during packaging or with a command from rules?
<bddebian> man dh_link ?
<cyberix> Yes. Thats why ask.
<cyberix> I
<joejaxx> crimsun: i think i am just going to edit the vurrent requestion it just has the wrong version
<crimsun> joejaxx: ?
<crimsun> -EPARSE
<joejaxx> i am sorry?
<crimsun> oh, you mean "edit the current request"?  Sure, go ahead.
<joejaxx> yes
<joejaxx>  :D
<joejaxx> wth
<joejaxx> someone already changed it
<norsetto> g'night all
<crimsun> night norsetto
<joejaxx> is there anyway to look up bug change history?
<crimsun> Bug Activity.
<joejaxx> hmm i do not see that
<crimsun> "View activity log"
<joejaxx> ahhh
 * TheMuso waves, now safely back in australia.
<crimsun> TheMuso: how was the return flight?
<TheMuso> crimsun: Long. There were two of them, but yes, they were long.
<joejaxx> who is marco rodridues?
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
<TheMuso> Hey Fujitsu .
<geser> joejaxx: Kmos
 * TheMuso changes his notebook's timezone.
<joejaxx> Kmos: :(
<geser> joejaxx: touched he again someone else bugs?
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Kmos has that effect on people.
<Kmos> joejaxx :)
<Kmos> joejaxx: you can check alsa-tools
<joejaxx> Kmos: you should have left the description as is
<Kmos> it not requested
<joejaxx> it was signed
<joejaxx> the message that is
<geser> Kmos: were you not told already several times to NOT TOUCH someone else bugs?
<Kmos> geser: i changed the description to match the debian version
<Kmos> and title
<Kmos> because it was correct on description, but not in the titl
<Kmos> because it was correct on description, but not in the title
<Kmos> i think I'm helping :(
<ScottK> Kmos: You'd be helping more if you would do as people tell you.  Your persistent failure to do so is a serious problem.
<Kmos> :(
 * Kmos needs to sign it in hands.. "NOT TOUCH SYNCS EVEN IF ONLY TO CHANGE TITLE VERSION"
 * Kmos with laser
<LaserJock> it's an interesting question though
<LaserJock> having signed descriptions that are editable
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah
<joejaxx> i would only change the title
<LaserJock> comments aren't a problem, but descriptions are mutable
<LaserJock> not that I put much of any value in signed emails
<joejaxx> :P
<LaserJock> but if you're going to go to the trouble I suppose it's nice for it to stay intact
<joejaxx> yeap :D
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I think in this case, the signing verifies that the person who sent it is who they say they are.
<joejaxx> yeah that is my thing
<joejaxx> if you change the signed message the original message as intended by the sender is not invalid
<joejaxx> gah
<joejaxx> not valid
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> double negatives
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> TheMuso: sure, I just don't think that's of any use. But it's annoying for those who care about such things
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Aye.
 * pwnguin takes notes on what not to do by watching kmos
<Kmos> i'll put message again signed =) revert the change..
<Kmos> pwnguin :)
<Kmos> it's back to normal
<joejaxx> StevenK: are you going to do the apt-rpm merge? :D
<StevenK> joejaxx: Not right now. But probably not.
<joejaxx> k
<joejaxx> ok*
<joejaxx> anyone want to look at https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~joejaxx/ubuntu/merges/apt-rpm_0.5.15lorg3.2-3ubuntu1.MERGE.debdiff ? :D
<TheMuso> joejaxx: File a bug
<LaserJock> man I need a new laptop
<LaserJock> this thing is a piece of junk
<LaserJock> or perhaps I need to strip down the apps I use on it
<joejaxx> LaserJock: specs? :D
<LaserJock>  Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.80GHz and 512MB RAM
<LaserJock> my AMD 1800+ smokes it
<ScottK> Beats the pants off my Pentium III 700 w/256MB of RAM.
 * ScottK is considering a new laptop too.
<LaserJock> Firefox brings it to it's knees
<LaserJock> it's constantly running slightly under 80C
<ScottK> As long as I'm doing one thing at a time, it doesn't seem to horrible.  I mostly use Konqueror for web browsing on it.
<proppy> hi
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe it's just gmail that's killing it
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> LaserJock: run it in basic html mode :D
<joejaxx> gmail +Ajax mode kills firefox on opensolaris :\
<pwnguin> firefox hates that little box in the bottom corner that pops up a name
<pwnguin> as long as its not showing gmail runs great
<LaserJock> oh wow, that's a lot better
<pwnguin> and now that this conversation is on irclogs, google will probably find it and fix it ;)
<LaserJock> it's a lot faster and dropped my avg CPU temp by ~5C
<LaserJock> joejaxx: thanks dude, that's way better
<Kmos> what's the package name for fmod ex library ?
<Kmos> fmodex doesn't exist
<joejaxx> LaserJock: you are most welcome :D
<joejaxx> someone remind me not to eat Oreos and Sprite together in the future :(
<LaserJock> joejaxx: and here I was thinking I'd have to install fluxbuntu on this thing ;-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :P
 * joejaxx goes back to merging
<bddebian> Gah, I have to stop this games team shit.. :-(
<joejaxx> bddebian: why?
<joejaxx> :\
 * joejaxx found two more merges :D
<LaserJock> bddebian: please don't
<bddebian> Because it's unresponsive and frustrating
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-27
<ScottK> StevenK: Based on your changelog entry, I'll ack that.
<StevenK> ScottK: Cool. I saw the bug fix, compared the versions, and thought it was easy enough and serious enough to fix
<StevenK> Drat, I generated the .changes file wrong
<ScottK> StevenK: Reject it quick then because I already asked for it to be accepted (or don't worry about it)
<YokoZar> Who can I poke for another motu-release ack?
<YokoZar> It's a very simple change that fixes two big bugs in Wine :)
<StevenK> ScottK: It isn't a real problem
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> YokoZar: What is it?
<YokoZar> ScottK: the wine bug you acked earlier ;)
<ScottK> Oh.  That wasn't in the upload you did already?
<ScottK> Urgh.
<YokoZar> Yeah it was
<YokoZar> Sorry
<YokoZar> The upload just needs to be built
<YokoZar> Err approved
<ScottK> It needs accepted and I've asked.  Maybe StevenK will do it ...
<YokoZar> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/223989
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 223989 in wine "wine: incorrect "Browse C:\ Drive" launcher" [Medium,Fix committed]
<StevenK> Will I? :-)
<persia> StevenK, Perhaps.  It's a mystery.  Do you have a coin?  Are both sides heads?
<YokoZar> If anyone has any idea WHY this upload was necessary it would be helpful, by the way. If I put a Gnome launcher in the Applications menu that says "xdg-open $home/foo" it is now being turned into "xdg-open /home/user/$HOME/foo" and then failing
<YokoZar> I'm not sure if that's a bug or a deliberate change
<YokoZar> Running xdg-open $HOME/foo from a terminal still works as expected
<RAOF> YokoZar: Without experimenting, I wouldn't expect environment-variable substitutions to be carried out in launchers; thus "xdg-open $home/foo" would be expanded as "$(CWD)/$home/foo", since it's relative.
<YokoZar> RAOF: ahh, ok.  It does do ~ though.
<RAOF> Really?  That's also somewhat of a shell-ism.  It surprises me less than env substitution, though.
<RAOF> It's kinda annoying :)
<ScottK> StevenK: Pretty please on wine?
<ScottK> StevenK: Never mind.
<ScottK> YokoZar: It's accepted.
<ScottK> persia: You're correct.  Universe goes ahead of Language Packs.
<persia> ScottK, Even today?  I thought it might get tuned the other way in the rush for images.
<ScottK> persia: Yes.  Just tested by the strongswan build just accepted already building on i386
<persia> That seems a risky plan, but maybe it's less risky to throttle uploads than to fiddle with priorities at this point.  it's what, about 8 hours to hard freeze?
<ScottK> 5 ish by my math, but it's not a hard stop necessarily.
<StevenK> It probably is for stuff on images
<StevenK> Hm. Can I upload 4 packages in 5 hours?
<persia> Is there anything on images pending?
<StevenK> (Then I hit tenth spot on UTU)
<persia> StevenK, Grab some RC bugs : they aren't on images generally.
 * StevenK wonders if UTU credits syncs correctly
<ScottK> StevenK: I think it does, although not all of mine that someone tagged to ~scottk instead of ~kitterman.
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> It looks like we can fix 2 rcs with two syncs
<ScottK> The aren't long builds are they?
<persia> StevenK, UTU credits syncs properly iff the archive admin gets the Changed-By: line correct in .changes.
<StevenK> ScottK: I've not downloaded them yet to check.
<StevenK> Right. There's four.
<ScottK> OK.
<StevenK> ScottK: I'll churn over them nowish
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> persia: Did you look at the virtualbox question I asked earlier?
<ScottK> Do we care?
<persia> ScottK, To me, virtualbox is an annoyance, and I don't know any good way to fix it.  From what I hear, it doesn't DKMS well, and everything else leaves it semi-broken.
<StevenK> Oh geez.
<StevenK> The orig tarball for gcl is 8MB, and the diff.gz is 14MB
<ScottK> I'd leave that for last.
<ScottK> Unless you really want to mess with it, ask NCommander.  He loves gcl.
<StevenK> Yeah, it takes ~ 30 minutes to build
<NCommander> StevenK, try decompressing that diff.gz
<StevenK> NCommander: Dun wanna
<NCommander> StevenK, it bloated up to 70MB, and the complete source to binutils, and parts of GCC
<NCommander> and no patch system
<NCommander> Its ALL inlined
 * NCommander hands StevenK acid for his eyes
<StevenK> Oh, the burning feels like cleaning
<persia> Oh.  Native / non-native.  If wgrant isn't right, the solution is to fake-bump the upstream version (2.0.4-dfsg1-0ubuntu1).  Needs testing against a PPA.
<NCommander> StevenK, there is a reason I won't touch gcl
 * StevenK kicks off test builds for three of them
<ScottK> persia: I'm fairly certain I don't care at the moment.  Should I?
<persia> ScottK, No good reason to care, that I see.
<ScottK> THanks.
<StevenK> One built
<persia> blueyed should be dinged, but that's about it.  Not worth SRU to fix, and it'll get SRU'd at the next kernel bump anyway, and can be fixed then.
<ScottK> Yep.
 * StevenK files sync requests
<StevenK> s/ts$/t/ # currently
<StevenK> ScottK: Bug 289703
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289703 in gmediaserver "Please sync gmediaserver 0.13.0-3.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289703
<ScottK> StevenK: Ack'ed.  Go for it.
<StevenK> ScottK: I'll bundle them, or try to
<StevenK> ScottK: And bug 289706
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289706 in rxvt-unicode "Please sync rxvt-unicode 9.05-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289706
<ScottK> StevenK: Ack'ed.
<StevenK> ScottK: And bug 289709
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289709 in luatex "Please sync luatex 0.28.0-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289709
<ScottK> StevenK: Done.
<StevenK> ScottK: Are you irritated by me yet? :-)
<ScottK> Nope.
<ScottK> Besides, I'm reviewing one I'm going to need someone to accept in ~20 or 30 minutes.
<ScottK> YokoZar: Any idea why Soyuz things wine is supposed to be built on hppa?
<ScottK> That isn't going to work, is it?
<stgraber> AFAIK Windows doesn't exist on hppa so I have some doubts you can find an hppa .exe :)
<stgraber> (and then wine has just no reason to exist)
 * StevenK checks P-a-s
 * ScottK was going to point young YokoZar in that direction (IIRC I've mentioned it before).
<YokoZar> Yeah I've seen it before
<StevenK> That's neatly odd. P-a-s looks right
<ScottK> Maybe YokoZar wasn't nice enough to lamont.
<YokoZar> Maybe I should just change the control file?
<ScottK> If it's in p-a-s, that won't affect things.  p-a-s takes precedence.
<YokoZar> Wine will (eventually) be built on other arches though, for running winelib apps
<ScottK> It's easy enough to get p-a-s changed when the time comes.
<YokoZar> Yeah but if it "looks right" then there's something else weird
<StevenK> ScottK: Bah, my pattern broke; bug 289714
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289714 in sdcv "Please sync sdcv 0.4.2-8 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289714
<ScottK> Too slow.
<StevenK> I was waiting for it to build and install!
<ScottK> StevenK: Ack'ed.
 * StevenK processes all four of them
<ScottK> Wahoo.  All the non-dead buildd's running.
 * stgraber wonders why "Arch: all" are always built on i386, they could be built on any of the other archs as well ... (and that'd avoid that 355 builds pending thing)
<ScottK> stgraber: Generally it's not a major issue.  We have an extra i386 buildd to compensate, but normally we don't get a full language pack dump right before release either.
<ScottK> In Debian with binary uploads, such packages are never built on the buildd's and are built on whatever arch the maintainer uses.
<persia> stgraber, It's selected as being most likely to match the majority of users.  There are a few packages that broke because of the selection, but an unfortunately large number of arch:all packages make assumptions about the architecture of the build host, so it's just safer to have it be i386.
<StevenK> Woot. I haz tenth spot
<persia> geser, nhandler Quick : StevenK is winning.  Grab some RCbugs fast before the archive closes!
<persia> Hmm.  Actually, given the timing, I suspect there's little chance of that.  Advantages of being in signficantly positive timezones.
<nhandler> persia: That is ok. I'm not going to get 40 packages uploaded. I'll beat him in Jaunty
<persia> nhandler, You're in -7 right?
<StevenK> Haha
<nhandler> persia: -5 right now
<StevenK> nhandler: Did you see what I managed in Gutsy?
<nhandler> No StevenK. Let me check
<nhandler> 413, very nice StevenK
 * persia vaguely wonders why it only goes back to Dapper
<nhandler> persia: Did they have -changes mailing lists pre-dapper?
 * wgrant notes that whoever keeps putting 'Done' comments should probably demote the bugs as well.
<persia> Yes.  Perhaps the archives are going away.  The Feisty uploads list is empty now.
<nhandler> On a side note, how long does it usually take for the new repositories to open after a release?
 * wgrant only has complete archives from Edgy onwards.
<wgrant> They generally open during/after UDS, but UDS is really late this time.
<nhandler> I really hope they open before UDS. I don't know if I could stand waiting that long
<wgrant> I suspect they will.
<wgrant> Given that Intrepid isn't an LTS, and UDS is late.
<StevenK> nhandler: A week to ten days after it is added to Launchpad
<nhandler> Thanks StevenK. I'll be waiting. And congrats on becoming #10 on UTU
<ScottK> StevenK: Would you please accept kvirc when it appears.
<StevenK> ScottK: Certainly
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
<NCommander> ScottK, can I get an ACK from you?
<persia> I never remember them opening *after* UDS.  Once during, but usually the week before or so (although I also hope this will be ~ mid-november)
<NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-rt/+bug/289683
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 289683 in linux-rt "Please rebase linux-rt on 2.6.27-7.14 for intrepid" [Undecided,New]
 * TheMuso looks.
 * persia downloads the debdiff in hopes of a positive answer
<ScottK> persia: Cory already ack'ed it and I think we can (barely) fit it in build wise, so I'd so go ahead.
<ScottK> I think after that and kvirc though we need to wait a while and see how fast i386 drains.
 * wgrant will be glad when the buildds are pooled.
<wgrant> Damn, that's a fair way behind.
<persia> NCommander, And I don't need to bump lrm-rt, right?
<ScottK> Yeah, well dump 400+ language packs in ~8 hours before final freeze and that's what you get.
<NCommander> persia, I think you only need to bump lrm-rt if you break the ABI
 * NCommander checks the manual
<wgrant> That's correct.
<wgrant> lrm only depends on the ABI.
<TheMuso> Arch all on i386 makes sense, but IMO langpacks should be done globally to speed them up. :)
<wgrant> langpacks are also normally done in PPAs.
<wgrant> But that won't matter soon, as the buildds will be same, I hear.
<persia> PPA will just be lower priority?
<wgrant> I think so.
<wgrant> There's a bug open to work out the priorities.
<persia> Does this also mean more arches for PPAs?
<wgrant> No, since not all arches can be virtualised.
<ScottK> persia: PPA is a Launchpad project.  Ubuntu is not.  Take a guess how it works out.
<stgraber> so we'll have parts of Ubuntu building in Xen ?
<wgrant> The plan seems to be to unify lpia/i386/amd64 buildds into one multi-arch primary/PPA pool.
<persia> ScottK, I'm not worried about that.  Ubuntu has a fair bit of weight when it comes to certain classes of uploads.
<ScottK> Odd thing about my UTU rankings.  Feisty was the first one I was involved in development in - 34, gutsy - 15, hardy - 15, intrepid (so far) - 15.
<TheMuso> wgrant: That makes a lot of sense.
<NCommander> UTU?
<wgrant> TheMuso: Definitely.
<wgrant> Ubuntu Top Uploaders
<persia> ScottK, You were all excited in Feisty.
<NCommander> wgrant, link?
<wgrant> http://thc.emanuele-gentili.com/utu/utu_intrepid.php
<ScottK> It's just odd coming out the exact same numerical rank for 3 consecutive releases.
<ScottK> Particularly since I quit for part of one of those.
<NCommander> wooo, 38
<NCommander> I'm four packages behind persia
<persia> ScottK, You weren't very good at quitting.  You uploaded stuff even when you were most inactive.
<ScottK> Yeah.
<persia> NCommander, It's *really* not hard to get ahead of me.
<persia> I'm one of the lowest-upload-count people of those who watch RCbugs or mdt.
<persia> (or NBS for that matter).
<NCommander> 57 uploads isn't anything to stick your nose up at
<ScottK> stgraber: kvirc should have appeared for you now.
<wgrant> RCbugs is looking fairly good this release. Thanks to those that had time to look at it!
<NCommander> Someone needs to dethrone Riddell for jaunty
 * persia gives three cheers to sebner for chasing RCbugs ever since DIF
<ScottK> ajmitch's improvements to it make it a lot easier to focus on what needs focusing on.
<TheMuso> Blame kde-i18n packages. :p
<ScottK> TheMuso: No.  Blame Launchpad.
<persia> Well, and nobody else sponsoring Kubuntu stuff.
<ScottK> Oh, wrong topic.
<ScottK> I thought we were on buildd backlog again.
<stgraber> ScottK: hmm, kvirc ?? You probably got the wrong s* :)
<wgrant> ScottK: Those were actually my improvements.
<ScottK> Ah.
<TheMuso> ScottK: I was basically saying Jonathan is as high as he is because of the tens of i18n uploads.
<ScottK> wgrant: Thank you for those.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Yep.  I finally got that.
<ScottK> stgraber: ?  Yes, kvirc.
<wgrant> ScottK: Why are we blaming Launchpad for buildd lag?
<wgrant> I wonder if hppa will catch up if somebody doesn't bounce primeor.
<persia> Because of the difficulty extracting langpacks.
<wgrant> Ah, true.
<ScottK> wgrant: Because the translation process is a byzantine mess, templates didn't get approved until late, and then Rosetta was finicky and didn't like anything about KDE4 for some important languages.
<stgraber> ScottK: hmm, I don't use kvirc (and I don't use KDE). Are your sure you're talking to the right person ?
<wgrant> And then LP hung at least 5 times during exports.
<wgrant> Which stopped other builds.
<ScottK> wgrant: I think Rosetta design is more broken than soyuz.
<wgrant> Rosetta has to deal with a lot of stuff.
<ScottK> stgraber: Ah.  Sorry.  Bad tab completion.  That was meant for StevenK.
<wgrant> An awwwful lot of stuff.
<wgrant> But yes, it needs fixing.
<StevenK> ScottK: Sorry. kvirc accepted
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
 * StevenK got distracted
<ScottK> No problem.
<ScottK> StevenK: persia should have a new kernel for you to accept here in a minute.
<wgrant> Are we hardfreezing once the langpacks are through?
<ScottK> wgrant: Someone suggested 0600 UTC to slangasek and he suggested that was about the right time.
<wgrant> Hmmm. I wonder if they'll finish by then.
<persia> There's just not much more time on the buildds, unless someone has something that doesn't need i386.
<ScottK> persia: The kernel goes on a derivative CD and the lang packs go on almost no CDs, so I'd say go ahead, but I don't plan on approving anything else.
<ScottK> StevenK: There it is now.
<wgrant> hppa is going to be a few hours too late.
<ScottK> linux-rt
<ScottK> wgrant: We could make it weeks late if we retried more stuff.
<persia> ScottK, That kernel doesn't go on any CDs.
<StevenK> ScottK: Done
<wgrant> Er, langpacks in NEW?
<persia> ScottK, It has some bugs (like no SMP support), so it's not default.
<persia> wgrant, more languages must have passed the 40% barrier.
<StevenK> -syr, -pap, -arn, and -bra
<wgrant> I guess. They're all three-letter ones, too.
<StevenK> No -tlh
<slangasek> given where the langpacks are, we may need to stop accepting other packages sooner so that the backlog clears (or else someone should handhold the queues to make sure all the langpacks are done first that need to be)
<slangasek> StevenK: those are supposed to not be generated; I'll nuke them from NEW
<StevenK> slangasek: I think we're pretty much done.
<StevenK> slangasek: Ah, kay
<ScottK> slangasek: I'd already reached that conclusion.  I'm not accepting anything else until the backlog drains some.
<StevenK> slangasek: I can process the other things in binary NEW if you wish
<Hobbsee> slangasek: re: handholding, that's going to be a pain in theneck
<slangasek> StevenK: sure, feel free
<slangasek> Hobbsee: the alternative to handholding is to just not accept anything else that's not critical until the queue drains
<slangasek> and evaluate whether we can afford to squeeze anything in after that
<NCommander> A HPPA buildd bit the dust :-/
<Hobbsee> slangasek: that might be more sane.  afaik, there is now *no* way to rescore builds, short of going to LP itself.
<StevenK> At least palmer grabbed linux-rt
<persia> Just for the avoidance of doubt : linux-rt is *less* important than the langpacks, as it's not part of the install for any users.
<StevenK> (It's the fastest i386 buildd)
<wgrant> StevenK: Lucky
<persia> Well, if it's already building.
<ScottK> It is.
<NCommander> virtual buildds should at least be able to take load off the non-virtual ones :-/
<wgrant> Isn't it only the one flavour?
<slangasek> StevenK: being grabbed by the fastest buildd doesn't help when the backlog is > 3 buildds wide and hours deep :)
<wgrant> Or somebody could assign the 20 recently moved PPA buildds to primary i386 for the next couple of hours.
<wgrant> But I suppose it's not quite that easy.
 * ScottK enjoys the empty "Bugs related to MOTU Release Team" page.
<StevenK> slangasek: Hehe :-)
<StevenK> Er, yeah. Where did the 2 billion PPA buildds go?
<wgrant> I believe they got moved.
<persia> ScottK, Nice job to get that clean.
<wgrant> But you can imagine that infinity is busy setting them up non-virtually if you want. :P
<StevenK> Given the time in Calgary, I bet he isn't. :-P
<NCommander> how many hours until final freeze?
<StevenK> Ten minutes shorter now
<persia> NCommander, 3, but the buildds have to drain.
<NCommander> so if the buildds are still building, we don't get screwed?
<ScottK> Not really in this case.
<StevenK> NCommander: That isn't an invite to get them to keep building
<ScottK> hppa is screwed regardless.
<persia> If the buildds are still building, the release manager will likely bark at MOTU Release.  If they drain with a publisher cycle to spare, we can push a few more RCbugs.
<NCommander> ScottK, they are a builder down, what can we do
<StevenK> hppa has been screwed all cycle
<ScottK> On i386 we'd be short some language packs.
<ScottK> NCommander: Even if everying pending built it would still be screwed.
<wgrant> hppa has been screwed since it was revived in Feisty.
<persia> Being short language packs is bad, because they go on the DVD images.
<wgrant> It had thousands of pending builds when we released Feisty, IIRC.
<ScottK> It's substantially worse now than on Hardy.
<persia> wgrant, hppa only had a couple hundred outstanding builds for gutsy.  Best release since Breezy, I'd say.
<wgrant> Hardy had a nice freeze to fix things up.
<ScottK> If my math was correct, it should land about right.
<NCommander> Why was it revivied in feisty?
<ScottK> If not, then slangasek can yell at me.
<persia> NCommander, Someone wanted it enough to put buildds in the DC.
<wgrant> NCommander: Because it was gone for a release or two.
<StevenK> NCommander: Because lamont loves hppa
<TheMuso> NCommander: No different to how we love PowerPC, and want to see the port survive.
<wgrant> The buildds had been there forever, but the port was missing for Edgy at least.
<ScottK> It was missing because I can't remember what threads thing was totally broken on hppa at the time.
<wgrant> NPTL
<ScottK> Now it's only sort of broken.
<wgrant> IIRC
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> That's the one.
<StevenK> Yeah, it's NPTL
 * TheMuso has memories of NPTL, relating to audio and realtime/Jack.
<TheMuso> From before his Ubuntu days.
<wgrant> Launchpad is going to fall over in an hour or so, isn't it?
<ScottK> Please don't.
 * Hobbsee clubs wgrant
<Hobbsee> wgrant: dont' give it ideas.
<NCommander> wgrant, fall over?
<ScottK> Please don't be letting out those negative waves.
 * NCommander should grab a coffee and watch LP chug along
<ScottK> NCommander: That's what usually happens when you've been clubbed.
<StevenK> Hm. two minutes per langpack
<persia> That's not so bad.  Initial estimates were 4-6 minutse.
<slangasek> StevenK: measured over how long an interval?
<StevenK> One whole langpack
<NCommander> lol
<StevenK> So don't listen to me :-)
<slangasek> so fairly inexact
 * NCommander just hopes that no langpacks FTBFS
<Hobbsee> although I note it is now taking 32 seconds to load https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu, so i'm wondering if it's under high load again or something
<StevenK> NCommander: It's a bunch of cp and debhelper
<NCommander> StevenK, when there is a will, there is a way
<stgraber> Hobbsee: ah, it's not just my crappy internet ?
<Hobbsee> stgraber: i don't think so
<slangasek> Hobbsee: hum; if you notice that this persists, please yell and I'll try to escalate before we crash & burn
<Hobbsee> stgraber: i'm getting that whether i proxy from the US, or whether I go direct from au
<Hobbsee> slangasek: which problem?
<slangasek> the "bugs iz slow"
<Hobbsee> slangasek: ahhh.  Will do, although i usually reserve that for the "slavescanner and friends have collapsed"
<StevenK> lpia is back to idle, so that's a good sign
<NCommander> yay
 * NCommander is off to get some coffee and food
<slangasek> fairly meaningless, the backlog has all been i386 for langpacks
<Hobbsee> slangasek: you can't convert some ppa i386 machines to other ones, can you?
<StevenK> slangasek: It means kvirc ought to finish soon at least, freeing up another buildd for langpacks
<slangasek> Hobbsee: I can't convert anything
<wgrant> kvirc is very nearly done
<Hobbsee> slangasek: hmm.  It occurs to me that I probably can.  I'd just hope not to break the world.
<ScottK> I wouldn't have gone for that one except it was an exploitable security bug.
 * Hobbsee glances at all the multiple pages of switches
<wgrant> Builder/+admin is required.
<slangasek> I'm going to watch the queues for a spell to try to estimate a completion time for the queue; if my estimate worries me I would consider poking someone
<Hobbsee> wgrant: i've got that.
<wgrant> But I think somebody would explode you.
<wgrant> slangasek: Find the lowest priority build.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: that's what I was suspecting.  Just thinking it's an option.
 * ScottK reviews his disaster preparedness plans.
<slangasek> wgrant: hmm?
<wgrant> slangasek: Builds have an estimated start time.
<wgrant> So if you find the one at the end of the queue, you should be able to work something out.
<Hobbsee> Queued:  	4 hours ago
<Hobbsee> Estimated build start: 	in 6 hours
<StevenK> Woot. Below 300
<NCommander> o_o;
<slangasek> but I don't know what that estimated build time is based on, whereas I /can/ estimate the rate of progress :)
<Hobbsee> slangasek: probably multiplying by the page number or something
<Hobbsee> ;)
<wgrant> It takes into account historical build time, but that of course dies because of palmer.
<wgrant> Which is markedly faster than the others.
 * persia gets more annoyed at being mailed edge URLs.  Just because the person leaving a comment is a beta tester doesn't mean I don't want access to the buttons.
<wgrant> persia: You could always log into edge.
<NCommander> persia, what buttons?
<RAOF> I thought edge did auto-redirect for non-beta users?
<ScottK> persia: If it's bugmail, it's LP doing that and there is an open bug on it.
<wgrant> RAOF: It doesn't.
<ScottK> Not for a long time.
<wgrant> beta did, edge doesn't.
<RAOF> That sucks more than I thought, then.
<persia> wgrant, Actually, I can't.  I'm not on the whiltelist for that (by choice).
<ScottK> Yeah.  That's it.
<wgrant> persia: It's not whitelisted any more.
<persia> ScottK, Yeah.  I've been active on that bug.
<wgrant> persia: beta.lp.net was, but edge hasn't been for 18 months.
<persia> Ah.  Stiil, edge tends to have lots of broken stuff : I like to find out about it all at once : reduces my sense of pain.
<ScottK> Personally I find discovering bad stuff on edge more depressing.
<ScottK> If it's in production, they say "sorry, too late it's in production".
<ScottK> I can understand that.
<Hobbsee> i'm currently finding that edge behaves like production now anyway, so reconsidering my subscription to edge.
<ScottK> If it's on edge, they say "No, we don't care how much it hurts, we aren't changing it"
 * StevenK hasn't found edge so painful
<ScottK> And that's more depressing.
<wgrant> I find it's good to use edge so I can complain about stupidity and get it fixed.
<wgrant> kvirc finally finished!
<ScottK> wgrant: You mean like re-implmementing the reload button in a hyperlink?
<wgrant> ScottK: It's not quite that, but in most cases you're right.
<wgrant> I don't think anybody will work out its intended purpose if they need to use it.
<persia> I actually ran across a case yesterday where that would have been useful.
<wgrant> But that bug should be fixed by redirecting.
<ScottK> wgrant: Yes, but I generally copy/paste off that spot several times a day.
<persia> wgrant, Yes.
<slangasek> 7 langpacks done in a 10-minute interval
<wgrant> ScottK: I generally use the address bar, as it avoids mousing.
<wgrant> slangasek: Note that we have another buildd now.
<ScottK> So they fix another bug in a totally obscure and unusable way and ....
<wgrant> And we might have another one it not too long.
<persia> slangasek, So ~350 minutes left?
<wgrant> My typing is atrocious today.
<slangasek> assuming the build time is fairly constant across languages, that's 7 hours to completion
<wgrant> I think we need more buildds.
<persia> With ~400 langpacks on the DVD, I'm guessing rescheduling stuff won't help much.
<persia> Well, we need a more sensible way to handle langpacks.
<wgrant> At least English is building now.
 * persia *really* dislikes langpacks changelogs
<slangasek> wgrant: which is the another buildd?  I still only see 3 building langpacks
<wgrant> We can't exactly implement a more sensible way right now.
<persia> wgrant, No.  Certainly not today.
<wgrant> slangasek: rothera only started building langpacks a couple of minutes before you gave you 10-minute average.
<slangasek> oh, there's still non-langpack stuff out there, mumble
<slangasek> (linux-rt building now on palmer)
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> That's the last of it.
<persia> Unfortunately, linux-rt takes 45-60 minutes depending on the buildd, which will be a bit more.
<Hobbsee> persia: well, no one can cancel it, so it's going to have to build.
<persia> Yep.  it's my fault for waiting too long for the rumoured 2.6.27-7-15.  Sorry.
<wgrant> +cancel is such a useful page.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: you mean the (12) Not implemented yet?
<ScottK> I think it'll land just about right.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: but it's nice and shiny...
<wgrant> Hobbsee: That one.
<Hobbsee> and i'ts been improved from what it was.  It just never actually got the backend work done on it
<persia> Oh, with the clock change in the UK, I suspect we're probably OK, it's just always tight.
<persia> ScottK, Sorry.  cut&paste To: line.
<ScottK> ?
 * persia is actively reading mail for the first time in a while
<ScottK> I'm subscribed to both of the mail lists you sent it to, so no problem.
<NCommander> back
<wgrant> linux-rt is finishing up.
<ScottK> OK.  That was 4 in 10 minutes with two buildd's on the problem.  Maybe I was optimistic.
<slangasek> average of 2.25min/build now
<wgrant> OK, onto langpacks only now.
<wgrant> I wonder how much quicker palmer is at langpacks, given their specialness.
 * NCommander wishes we could magicially make more i386 builds
<wgrant> 11 in 10 minutes, and that's with palmer out for a third of it. Hmm.
<wgrant> It varies.
<cody-somerville> NCommander, I can't understand why. The build queue is only at 9.15hours! :P
<NCommander> wgrant, its down 40 since I left to get food
 * wgrant -> tute
 * wgrant wishes the i386 buildds good luck.
<Hobbsee> 263 builds...getting down...
<StevenK> I wonder if hppa will be still be at 20 builds when i386 breaks 200
<ScottK> It'd help if someone would give primero a kick.
<persia> It's getting to be Monday in more places : perhaps there's a chance of that soon.
<txwikinger2> ScottK: I think I have fixed the issue for kio-sword
<ScottK> txwikinger2: OK.  It is to late for Intrepid.
<ScottK> txwikinger2: Once you get it into Jaunty, we can backport it.
<txwikinger2> yes that is ok
<StevenK> Eeek. I thought it was 275 builds waiting. Turns out I misread it and it's 225.
<wgrant> StevenK: Why 'Eek'? Isn't that a good thing?
<coppro> when do the repos lock?
<StevenK> wgrant: More as in, "Eeek! Oh, right."
<ScottK> When slangasek mashes the big red button that slams the brakes on.
<wgrant> What's involved? Switching the publisher cronjob off and not running it manually again?
<persia> wgrant, At least, although if we're still running it manually at this point, it's different for this cycle.
<StevenK> There we go. hppa is still at 20 builds, and i386 has hit 198
<persia> 9 of those 20 are expected to go to dep-wait though, which should make some bits go faster.
<ScottK> Is kohnen even moving anymore?
<StevenK> Looks very similar to when it checked it before
 * StevenK wonders if #ubuntu-release-party is up yet
<ScottK> No, I think most of that crowd is thinking it's a very important time to be testing so that $THEIRPETBUG can get fixed before release.
<StevenK> Argh. One package in NBS
 * RAOF wonders whether there's a Sydney release party.
<StevenK> slangasek: I'm binary killing libanculus-sharp, it's NBS
<slangasek> StevenK: too late
<slangasek> :)
<StevenK> Awww!
<StevenK> slangasek: Too late, since you have, or too late in general?
<slangasek> because I have
<StevenK> Fair enough
<lifeless> persia: you make Monday sound like a disease
<persia> lifeless, Well, it's at least sclerotic for the archive.
<persia> And many people seem to be more like zombies.
<persia> My mother once quoted me a statistic "15% of heart attacks happen on Monday mornings at 9:00".  I have no information about the sample size, but I've always found it interesting.
<NCommander> persia, as a firefighter, I won't be suprised if thats int he right ball park
<persia> NCommander, Do most fires happen on Mondays as well?
<NCommander> persia, its usually nights
<NCommander> Fridays actually
<NCommander> People get out of work and just want to burn things down
<NCommander> 173 in the queue
<ScottK> Oddly enough on the way home from shopping tonight three fire trucks passed us in the opposite direction with lights on in a hurry to get somewhere.
<ScottK> My 5 year old asked me "How can there be a fire, it's night time?"
<ScottK> I told her fires can happen any time of day and she said, "Oh".
<ScottK> I think she totally got it, but it'd just never ocurred to her before.
<StevenK> Haha
<StevenK> That's very cute
 * NCommander has to clean out his car
<NCommander> Man, I'm been putting that off all week :-/
<StevenK> NCommander: But it's like midnight?
<pangloss> 1:18 on east coast
<NCommander> StevenK, 1:18
<NCommander> Three days until Intrepid releases
<NCommander> Amazing
<pangloss> Just finished a seminar on protection networks for fully meshed networks when two nodes fail for my graduate class
<pangloss> time for bed...
<NCommander> night pangloss
<pangloss> nigh NCommander =)
<StevenK> Hm. New u-r-e
<persia> Yep.  Fixes the default java plugin.
<didrocks> morning o/
<dholbach> good morning
<slytherin> is launchpad not sending 'Fix Released' mail notifications?
<slytherin> dholbach: good morning :-)
<dholbach> hi slytherin
<persia> slytherin, It should be.  Complain in #launchpad if you didn't get one after 10-15 minutes.
<dholbach> slytherin: could it be the package is still sitting in the queue?
<persia> dholbach, Nope.  queue is clean.
<YokoZar> dholbach: poke
<dholbach> hi YokoZar
<YokoZar> dholbach: I'd like to ask about the 5-a-day team mass purge you did a while back.  I'm thinking of doing a similar thing for Wine (the Wine Team has about 60 members, but pretty much only I use the PPA).  I haven't found a use for the team in the year+ it's existed, so it seems like shortening it is a good idea
<dholbach> *nod*
<YokoZar> Anyway how did you manage to send a mass email?  Or did you just shoot everyone individually as you removed em?
<dholbach> the latter
<dholbach> I tried using the Launchpad API but was not successful
<dholbach> I copied and pasted text for the comment though
<YokoZar> Ahh ok
<slytherin> dholbach: the bug is marked fix released
<dholbach> slytherin: ah ok
<\sh> guys, is it still time to fix some packages? bug #289448 e.g.?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289448 in wine "wine 32-bit libcups dependency is missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289448
<persia> \sh, Was that not included in the wine upload a few hours ago?
<persia> There's a package in the queue, but you'll need all sorts of extreme permission to upload.
<\sh> persia: well, libcusys2 is still in ia32-libs, but not libcups2 which somehow delivers the libcups.so.2
<\sh> libcupsys2 even
<\sh> ah forget about it
<persia> I thought I some some traffic about libcupsys2 being dropped.
<\sh> pitti just uploaded ubuntu18 of ia32lib
<persia> No, it's probably worth asking about.
<\sh> it should be resolved now
<persia> So it is fixed in the uploads that happened last night?
<\sh> yes
<persia> OK.  You had me worried.  I saw ia32libs and wine go in last night, and you chasing a bug now made me think everyone was a bit too tired.
<\sh> persia: I'm trying to catch up with mails...so I didn't see any mail saying "this bug's closed"...because it's not closed ,-)
<\sh> doing so now manually
<ZehRique> slangasek: Hello, Steeve. Could you talk with me about translations or tell me who deals with them?
<slangasek> ZehRique: you probably want to talk with the localization team for the language in question; ubuntu-l10n-ptbr perhaps?
<ZehRique> slangasek: No, Steeve. I'm member of the l10n-ptbr team. But I found an error on just one important string on the "gnome-menus" package. Would it be possible to correct it?
<slangasek> ZehRique: a "misspelling" error, or an "insults the user's family and makes them hate us" error?  Only the latter could warrant a rebuild of language packs now for release
<slangasek> ZehRique: updates to lang packs after the release may be possible; for that you should talk to pitti or ArneGoetje in #ubuntu-devel
<ZehRique> slangasek: Well, the case is consistency of the translation between several distros, not only Ubuntu. I did the upstream of the GNOME packages in pt_BR, but some translator changed the string and I noticed just now. :(
<slangasek> ZehRique: that's unfortunate, but not something that we can afford to stop the release process to fix
<slangasek> ZehRique: what was the wrong string, OOI?
<ZehRique> slangasek: OK. I understand. I'll try to talk with piti or ArneGoetje later to know if we can change. ;)
<ZehRique> slangasek: The change was made on the main menu. The correct string should be "MultimÃ­dia" and it was packaged as "Som & VÃ­deo".
<slangasek> ZehRique: that doesn't sound incorrect to me.  "Sound and Video" is the correct category name in English...
<ZehRique> slangasek: yes, but we the LDP-BR discussion list stated that the string should be "MultimÃ­dia" on GNOME, KDE and XFCE.
<ZehRique> slangasek: the major distros are translated this way, only Ubuntu remains on "Som & VÃ­deo". But... if it's not so important for now, we can wait for the next release of Intrepid. ;)
<slangasek> ZehRique: you're aware that the use of "Sound and Video" is a deliberate change from the previous "Multimedia", in English?
<ZehRique> slangasek: No. The team changed it and roll it back again?
<ZehRique> excuse me for the bad english.
<slangasek> ZehRique: in the past, "Multimedia" was used in GNOME for English.  The present use of "Sound & Video" is a deliberate change.
<ZehRique> slangasek: wow... and they changed again.
<ZehRique> slangasek: I won't take more of your time. Thanks for your patience with me. :)
<slangasek> no problem
<ZehRique> Who knows talking with the two person you tell me we can change it again. ;) Once more, thanks a lot!
<slytherin> NCommander: I didn't get chance to check your kernel builds yesterday. And I am unlikely to get chance till Friday. Will report back after that.
<marmuta> Hi, I just finished working through the SRU guidelines on bug #272204. I'm wondering if someone could have a quick look to see if I got it roughly right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272204 in sysprof "sysprof-module doesn't build" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272204
<marmuta> anyone?
<marcin_ant> what is a preferred way to deploy source code in source package? can I put tar files and use tarball.mk (cdbs) or should I untar source files and deploy them in uncompressed?
<ScottK-laptop> You can do tarball in tarball, but I've never seen it cause anything but pain.
<joaopinto> marcin_ant, why do you need a source tarball inside of a source package ?
<slayton> are there anyplans to backport the Intrepid gstreamer packages to hardy?
<directhex> would it cause ABI breakage?
<directhex> i suspect the risk of regression is high, unless there are compelling reasons
<marcin_ant> joaopinto: well, not sure - maybe because original tarballs are pretty weird - they are tgz, tar.gz, zip - sometimes they have subfolders with code sometimes code is just in / - tarball.mk can handle this in easy way
<NCommander> doko, I was curious if I can help with the toolchain by running the regression test on all ports architectures
<marcin_ant> joaopinto: this is why I ask here
<doko> NCommander: which regression tests?
<NCommander> glibc (expect on HPPA), GCC, G++, ObjC, etc.
<joaopinto> marcin_ant, you are not expected to move tarballs into the source unless there is a VERY strong reason for that
<doko> they are run with every upload, just check the build logs and the summaries in the packages
 * NCommander helped keep GCC going on m68k
<joaopinto> the orig.tar.gz should match the upstream tarball
<NCommander> doko, ah, anything I can do to help toolchain folks on port architecutres, or is all covered?
<doko> NCommander: well, rebuild the archive with gcc-snapshot, and report problems upstream, this could help the community ports
<NCommander> doko, I'll have to find a few more port boxes, my PowerPC will take until the next LTS to build the archive, but we can probably get it done
<doko> NCommander: and then it's the bug extraction and upstream reporting, which can get a bit time consuming
<NCommander> Isolate the ICE
<NCommander> My favorite game
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<jdong> urgh bluetooth input devices are a *PAIN*
<directhex> jdong, yes
<jdong> superm1: you say you have a functional apple keyboard without hidd?
<jdong> of all the freaking irony the stuff I expected to struggle with worked out of the box
<directhex> jdong, of course, i've never used a bluetooth input device that didn't involve cheap hax, e.g. mobile phone based mouse input, or ps3 bluetooth remote w/ driver written in python
<jdong> and the stuff I never expected to give me trouble ARE giving me trouble.
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Universe/Multiverse is DONE. | See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 31st 04:00 UTC
<jdong> I mean... this broadcom WLAN card is making an 802.11n connection right now, out of the box, pulling 50+mbit
<jdong> but god forbid me try to type on a wireless keyboard!
 * jdong breathes deeply
<jdong> all this effort to install Ubuntu on an iMac just so I can play doom3....
<directhex> jdong, you know you can play doom3 on macos, yes? :p
<jdong> directhex: if by play you mean watch a slideshow of what the game would be like.... yes.
<jdong> directhex: and that brings me to irony #2: Booting an ATI powered system to Linux for better gaming performance.
<jdong> hell is going to freeze over any second now.
<directhex> O_o
 * directhex bought a 24" imac for the office, purely because smaller models lacked nvidia
<jdong> directhex: I only bought the PC version of the game; I tried the Mac demo and 640x480xlow lags.
<jdong> directhex: and I primarily bought this iMac to run OS X and CoreVideo/Quartz2D benches are nearly twice as fast on ATI hardware than nvidia
<jdong> maybe that'll change now that nvidia seems to be Apple's preferred GPU chipset
<directhex> for the time being.
<directhex> maybe they'll fix their 2d performance in linux one day too
<jdong> :)
<superm1> jdong, yes sir
<jdong> superm1: how do you get it to pair without hidd?
<superm1> jdong, here's the bigggg catch to these apple keyboards
<superm1> jdong, they remember the last couple of pairings
<jdong> WHAT?
<directhex> maybe superm1 could punch whoever at dell is making my new latitude take months to ship, while he's at it. that'd be good.
<superm1> jdong, if you have any previously paired devices in the vicinity, they will hook onto them while you are trying to pair to the new device
<jdong> superm1: well hmm I only have the iMac there that I've paired it with.
<jdong> superm1: I just get pairing failed from bluetooth-wizard
<jdong> superm1: hidd --connect has no problem though
<superm1> jdong, here's what happened to me: i've had one of mine paired at work and home.  i didn't realize i left it in my work bag, when i was at work i suddenly got '2's all over the document.  didn't know what was going on, until i realized the keyboard was in the bag.  i got home and was watching a tv show on my mythbox.  the "i" key kept getting pressed, exact same thing.  I tried to pair it with a testing laptop both at home and work, and it d
<superm1> oesn't want to pair while anything else it's been with is near by
<superm1> hidd --connect appears to work i'd empirically guess because it's more forceful and swift about the process
<jdong> superm1: maybe I'll give a few shots with a cold-boot and only putting in the batteries after GNOME starts
<jdong> superm1: I have a feeling perhaps the HID proxy that the EFI initializes might be bothering the keyboard too
<superm1> jdong, you're gonna hate this too then; it appears that pairings stick after you pull batteries out..
<superm1> but that's a good experiment likely as long as the hid proxy gets stopped when bluetooth gets initialized
<superm1> jdong, you are referring to the newer "aluminum" BT keyboard right?
<jdong> superm1: correct
<jdong> superm1: the silver plastic one ;-)
<superm1> jdong, well the one "marketed" as an aluminum one.  but yeah, i've got two of them, and really have to struggle to make them pair, but they eventually do it
<jdong> superm1: I'll give more effort when I get some spare time
<jdong> superm1: good to know that you can get them to pair with enough effort
<jdong> for now I'll just kick it with hidd in rc.local
<jdong> I want to get away from that ugly hack ASAP :)
<superm1> jdong, it's quite possible there is a bug in the wizard though where there needs to be special handling for this
<superm1> jdong, so if you really want to (and trust me you do), you can analyze the differences of what really happens with hidd --connect and the wizard
<jdong> superm1: I notice there's a hardcoded 0000 passkey for older apple keyboards
<jdong> the MAC addies shown there don't match those of the new keyboard/mice
<superm1> jdong, yeah but the newer ones can accept user inputted passkeys
<jdong> I have no idea if that's relevant
<jdong> am I supposed to be prompted for a passphrase?
<superm1> well newer keyboards at least
<superm1> yup
<jdong> well that's not happening either :D
<superm1> i've also had to hit the exact sequence of when it's put in discovery mode and clicking next in the wizard, which makes me think timing bug and why hidd --connect and its swiftness plays into it
<jdong> superm1: there's no editing of any sort I have to do for authorization?
<jdong> this should just be trying a lot at the wizard?
<superm1> jdong, yup, i've done this off of a fresh install of a build a few days before RC
<superm1> jdong, the bluez patches post RC only help some dell hardware that I know struggles with BT
<jdong> superm1: ok so this should just be hold the power button until it blinks, then try to connect from the UI right?
<superm1> jdong, that's how it's "supposed to work" :)
<cambridgecow> what is the command to apply a diff.gz to a tar.gz to generate the debian/ directory
<asomething> dpkg-source -x *.dsc
<cambridgecow> ty
<asomething> * = the files name there, not part of the command
<jdong> superm1: grumble no luck yet :-/
<jdong> superm1: I do see it immediately trying to connect to the BT adaptor though
<jdong> which confirms what you said
<jdong> it obviously looks for the last thing it was paired with
<superm1> given there is a past pairing with the exact same device, i think you are going to have a difficult time
<superm1> something you might consider trying is turning on discoverable mode on the PC.  it might just give you a popup asking for a key when it tries to connect
<jdong> superm1: heh no luck, I'll just continue using hidd for now
<jdong> at least that kinda works
<superm1> jdong, that's too bad.
 * NCommander tackles jdong 
<superm1> jdong, i'm hoping to never have to pair mine again, that's for sure
<jdong> superm1: hidd oddly creates a normal connection that stays
<jdong> superm1: when I have hcitool cc try it, or bluez tries it, the keyboard hangs up
<superm1> i swear if i ever have to reinstall, i'm backing up /var/lib/bluetooth
<jdong> I saw that in hcidump
<jdong> I need to analyze it a bit more when I have the time
<jdong> they're obviously doing something different
<ScottK> superm1: I recommend backing it up before you find you have to reinstall.
<jdong> I wonder if there's a way to transplant linkkeys :)
<superm1> ScottK, good point :)
<cambridgecow> I need to get the gstreamer debs from intrepid, but I want to continue running hardy, what is the best way of doing this?
<cambridgecow> is this even possible?
<ScottK> !backports | cambridgecow
<ubottu> cambridgecow: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<cambridgecow> ScottK, so if they are not in backports then I pretty much am out of luck?
<NCommander> ScottK, did we ever backport gstreamer?
<ScottK> cambridgecow: At best it'd be risky.  You can ask for a backport if there isn't one.
<ScottK> NCommander: No idea.
<cambridgecow> ScottK, do I ask here for the backport?
<ScottK> cambridgecow: Read the link I sent you.  It explains it.
<cambridgecow> k
<NCommander> ScottK, I know I won't want to attempt a gstreamer backport. the rdepends are ugly
<directhex> i did some gstreamer backports for dapper once
<directhex> seemed to function okay
<cambridgecow> ok I filed the backport request... thanks (btw its not for all of gstreamer just gstreamer-plugins-ugly, but I'm guessing all of gstreamer might be required on the backport)
<NCommander> Is the wiki acting up for anyone else beside me?
<james_w> yup
<asomething> NCommander: I've had some pages hanging
 * NCommander went to try and note that AuFS for IA64 needs porting and can't :-/
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<Laney> What's the best thing to do for Intrepid release? Still rcbugs?
<geser> Laney: perhaps testing the upgrade would be good
<ScottK> Laney: ISO testing or look into SRUs for Intrepid.
<ScottK> Upgrade testing is good too.
<Laney> righto
<Laney> Ooh, full sound in vbox. How novel
<geser> a candidate for a SRU (perhaps even security) would be mediawiki (fixing an XSS bug)
<superm1> Laney, by default?  I thought you have to turn on pulseaudio in your VM actively to get it
<ScottK> geser: intrepid-proposed is a valid upload target right now.
<Laney> superm1: Maybe I enabled it before. I just know that it didn't work and now it does.
<superm1> Laney, ah.  i've had it working for the last month, but i know i had to go out of my way to turn it on
<superm1> so did one of my mac friends who i convinced to try it
<Laney> I haven't booted this Hardy VM in a while it seems - 236 updates
<Laney> geser: I've just looked at mediawiki. Can we sync for -security?
<ScottK> Laney: No.
<ScottK> Make a debdiff.
<Laney> ScottK: Well can it be a debdiff which is just between intrepid and lenny-security? Or must it be for ubuntu?
<Laney> I guess I'm asking if we can just take security fixes from Debian
<ScottK> Take the intrepid package and just add the fix for the security issue.
<Laney> (obviously testing them)
<ScottK> It needs a proper revision number.
<Laney> alright
<geser> Laney: take the patch from 1.12.0-2lenny1
<geser> apply it to the intrepid package and version is correctly
<Laney> geser: Yes, I will. I was wondering if we could just copy that package, but I get it now
<geser> in the end it will be same package as in lenny but with a different version number
<Laney> correct
<maco> what is the criteria for removing a package from universe?
<directhex> maco, total removal from the archive?
<maco> yeah
<maco> directhex: i'm thinking of emerald. it's really unstable and isn't supported upstream anymore.  their response is to just stop using it and switch to gtk-window-decorator when using compiz
<geser> maco: a good reason and not breaking other packages
<ScottK> Well we removed it once and it got brought back by popular demand.
<maco> oh
 * ScottK reads wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams and discovers MOTU is part of QA.
<ScottK> That was a while ago though.
<maco> before compiz became able to make metacity themes act transparent-like with g-w-d?
<ScottK> Dunno.  I use KDE, so I've never used either.
<maco> emerald themes look nice...but combine nvidia and emerald and my intel graphics will often out-pace them...the entire gui slows down awfully.
<NCommander> maco, are you sure you have acceleration enabled? There should be no slowdown if you do have it proeprly enabled
<maco> NCommander: it wasnt my computer. it was on my friend's laptop. if he used g-w-d, it was fine. if he switched to emerald it was really slow. and he was using the nvidia drivers
<directhex> NCommander, nvidia's 2d performance is broken, it causes major trouble for some things
<maco> when we asked in #compiz-fusion, they said to stop using emerald
<NCommander> directhex, strange, I don't have that problem w/ my nvidida card w/ the blobs
<maco> its not on all models
<directhex> NCommander, depends on which APIs are being tickled. talk to the kde4 folk, and you'll notice the burning torches & pitchforks
<NCommander> directhex, yes well, they got burned by the bluetooth
<laga> s/burned/bitten/
<NCommander> pun == weak
<laga> ACK
<NCommander> directhex, anyway, do you still have interest in your mono packages on PPC and other port archs?
<directhex> NCommander, generally speaking, sure. but i don't know how much time i have to devote on it, as i move my efforts less onto my backports & more onto the actual pkg-mono team
<NCommander> directhex, we lost you to the dark side
<directhex> NCommander, debian's the dark side now?
<NCommander> no, mono vs backports
<directhex> NCommander, working with pkg-mono means better ubuntu releases
<directhex> NCommander, and working more closely wih upstream means it too. i've already had upstream remove the need for +dfsg on 2 packages
<NCommander> yay
<directhex> NCommander, my plan is for ubuntu's mono stack to be all syncs. i should achieve that goal with jaunty, although only as long as the core devs actually ask before slapping an ubuntu increment on a package
 * NCommander nods
<directhex> generally speaking, i see debian work as the best way to improve ubuntu
<NCommander> directhex, just remember that lenny is close to release, so a lot of maintainers are trying to avoid needing to use testing-proposed-updated
<directhex> NCommander, which is why sid lies stagnant for us. but we're aiming to go postal on experimental
 * NCommander notes that jaunty is going to hurt because of said sid stagnation
<directhex> NCommander, yes. 0ubuntu1 everywhere. oy.
<NCommander> maybe we should flock down on their RC bugs and fix them
<directhex> well, MOTUs are twiddling thumbs now, largely, so yes
 * NCommander offers to help NMU any lenny RC bugs
<DktrKranz> directhex, time for processing SRUs, no time to twiddling thumbs ;)
<directhex> http://bts.turmzimmer.net/
 * DktrKranz promises he will be quicker than NCommander's GNAT bugs
<jdong> superm1: ok 6 hours later, I think you're crazy. *goes back go hidd for good* :D
<superm1> jdong, i can confirm i'm crazy, no fix for that though.  irregardless, it *does* work with careful button pressing
<blueyed> ScottK: ping. What to do about virtbualbox-ose?
<blueyed> ScottK: the diff should have been only native/non-native, plus DP description for the latest patch.
<NCommander> DktrKranz, ouch
<NCommander> DktrKranz, actually, I'm doing a lesson on cruft removal and transitions and all that jazz for OpenWeek
<DktrKranz> NCommander, nice... gnat is a good example :)
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I'm actually going to go with something a little simpler
 * NCommander is going to be having a hands on activity
 * RainCT just got a stupid idea and is wondering if a short "REVU Q&A" session could be useful :P
<NCommander> RainCT, that was my first idea
<NCommander> RainCT, go for it!
<RainCT> Heh. Can I just add it somewhere on the wiki or do I have to poke someone?
<RainCT> ok I see
<NCommander> RainCT, just poke jcastro
 * RainCT was writing "/me pokes jcastro" right now :)
<jcastro> RainCT: what topic do you want to cover?
<RainCT> jcastro: "REVU Q&A" (could be 30 min or something.. preferably on friday as it's better for me and this way it would also be after the packaging sessions)
<jcastro> RainCT: sounds great, take a slot! (And don't forget the description at the bottom)
<bobbo> jcastro: Would an "Introduction to BZR" fit in with the type of sessions you want to run for OpenWeek?
<RainCT> bobbo: there's actually already one
<bobbo> RainCT: someone stole my session! :P
<jcastro> bobbo: a more advanced session after the intro one wouldn't be bad either
<bobbo> jcastro: could work, IIRC emma janes session only touches the basics
<ScottK> blueyed: When I debdiffed it there was more than that.
<bobbo> jcastro: I'll get back to you in a bit?
<jcastro> bobbo: yeah, usually those are best for openweek, advanced stuff can go into developer week, but I think there is plenty of room for an advanced session
<jcastro> bobbo: sure!
<blueyed> ScottK: the .cvsignore files probably?! it seems like they go ignored in the native package, but not in the orig.tar.gz..
<blueyed> ScottK: anyway.. I'll have to go for some hours now..
<ScottK> blueyed: As a practical matter I think it's fine as it is.
<RainCT> jcastro: done :)
<jcastro> RainCT: thank you!
<bobbo> jcastro: still here?
<jcastro> bobbo: yep
<bobbo> jcastro: I talked to emmajane and she agreed it would be cool to go into bzr with a bit more depth after her talk (sehs only touching the *very* basics). Is that cool with you?
<jcastro> bobbo: that sounds excellent!
<bobbo> jcastro: can I just grab the last slot on the Monday?
<Laney> geser: Can you take a look at bug #290015? I've not had a security update uploaded before.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290015 in mediawiki "[CVE-2008-4408] XSS attack vulnerability" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290015
<jcastro> bobbo: yep!
<bobbo> jcastro: cool, thanks alot :)
<jcastro> bobbo: you won't need to twist my arm to slide in more bzr topics. :D
<ajmitch> sounds like jcastro is a fan
<bobbo> jcastro: hehe, I'm sure I could fill a whole week with bzr geekery ;)
<jcastro> ajmitch: I'm a fan of anything I can use without learning 34057834 commands. :D
 * ajmitch does have to learn how to use some of the newer stuff like looms
<ScottK> I'd say any dvcs that has a whole weeks worth of geekery is excessively complex.
<laga> git is better
 * laga puts on his asbestos suit
<ScottK> Dunno, but when I spend time learning Git it's useful for some $WORK projects.
<jdong> :)
<jdong> I can't decide for this $work project
<jdong> so I'm using both at the same time
<jdong> trying to decide which I like better
<ScottK> My problem is I'm never the decider on such things, so it is what it is.
<stefanlsd> mm. git for me was too complex. bzr is nicer, but slower i find.
<laga> git can do awesome things. things which require some fiddling with bzr
 * ScottK definitely agrees on slower.
<laga> i blame some of that slowness on launchpad. of course, i have no numbers to back that up.
<laga> local file system sure feels faster ;
<laga> ;)
<YokoZar> jcastro: give any thought to my Wine session?
<jcastro> YokoZar: If you're available, then by all means
<pochu> DktrKranz: you are the 5th uploader in intrepid! http://thc.emanuele-gentili.com/utu/utu_intrepid.php
 * pochu is 46th
<DktrKranz> pochu, UTU is based on a script made by me... I gambled ;)
<pochu> haha
 * nhandler is 12th
<Laney> if ($nick == DktrKranz) $uploads *= 10;
<pochu> DktrKranz: could you rank me higher then? :-)
<DktrKranz> Laney, say *= 20
<DktrKranz> pochu, how many â¬uros are you going to invest?
<pochu> Laney: that would mean he uploaded 36.1 packages :P
<pochu> DktrKranz: I can do some SRUs ;)
<Laney> One was reaaaaally small
<pochu> DktrKranz: or if I do more SRUs you will rank me lower instead? :P
<DktrKranz> pochu, SRUs counts *= 50
<pochu> yohoo :)
 * pochu has a few of those
<DktrKranz> but only if you upload them 49 times
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Wouldn't it be handy when you had to look into an SRU/security issue to have a script in ubuntu-dev-tools that would grab and unpack the source packages for all supported releases in which the package exists?
<DktrKranz> ScottK, can be easily worked-around using pull-lp-source, it would require just some more lines
<ScottK> Yeah.  It seemed like something would be easily extensible for that.
<DktrKranz> maybe pull-lp-source <pkg> all
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> Making it know about backports would be nice too.
<DktrKranz> it's python, so no problems making the adjustment
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Odd.  I've not used that one before.  For spamassassin it got the release pocket in Dapper and Backports in Gutsy.
<DktrKranz> I think it gets the higher version
<DktrKranz> no matter where it's published
<ScottK> Then why not in dapper?
<ScottK> It's got a package in backports too.
<DktrKranz> ah, right
<NCommander> DktrKranz, did you verify the smc problem in Hardy?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, which one?
<NCommander> DktrKranz, you removed the verification-needed tag from 288990
<DktrKranz> ah, this is because it was not on qa.ubuntuwire.com/sru radar
<NCommander> ?
<DktrKranz> it went in "need verification" bugs, while it's location is still in "waiting for approval"
<NCommander> "waiting for approval"?
<DktrKranz> "Needing Action"
<DktrKranz> ScottK, got it
<DktrKranz> it gets .dsc files from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/dapper/+source/spamassassin
<NCommander> DktrKranz, could you upload my fix to proposed then?
<ScottK-laptop> DktrKranz: Would you please look at Bug 289915 and Bug 278075 for SRU (note it's in main for Intrepid, so that one's not your problem)?
<DktrKranz> dapper publishes -updates one, gutsy shows -backports one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289915 in spamassassin "securitysage.com blacklist gone, causing artificial bumps in spam score" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278075 in spamassassin "DSBL is gone and needs to be removed from SpamAssassin" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278075
<DktrKranz> ScottK, as you said, it's for main, so it's not motu-sru business for intrepid (but it is for previous releases)
<ScottK> You're good with SRU then?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, my vmware decided to take a break (kernel panic \o/) so I can not test it on hardy, unless I can fire up a pbuilder
<NCommander> DktrKranz, vmware won't do, you need OpenGL enabled hardware
<DktrKranz> gah
<NCommander> (I'm just asking for an upload to proposed so someone can test it without having to compile it)
<NCommander> I'm seeing if I can reproduce on my laptop now in a chroot, but its not looking promising
<DktrKranz> I can run it on a livecd on real hardware
<DktrKranz> but I need to download CD
<DktrKranz> ScottK, have you got patches/debdiffs handy for spamassassins?
<NCommander> my problem is SDL tries to use X11
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I'm working on them now.
<DktrKranz> I'm off for now, I already started to process some SRUs, I'll do many in the next days (my hope we won't get flooded as for Hardy)
<DktrKranz> good night all
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-28
<coppro> I smell a broken dependency!
<NCommander> rofl
<coppro> wait, false alarm, synaptic doesn't mention replaced packages
<mneptok> coppro: no, just a broken Depends
<nxvl> persia: ready for the last 48 hours before relase?
 * nxvl still remembers hardy's last 48 hours as if it were last week
<NCommander> nxvl & persia: does anything special happen in the last 48?
<nxvl> yeah
<nxvl> bug squashing
<nxvl> mainly ftbfs
<ajmitch> finding SRU candidates
<nxvl> that too
<nxvl> but SRU's can wait 2 days
<NCommander> nxvl, if you see any good FTBFS, I'll work on it
<nxvl> \o/
<nxvl> NCommander: compiz is FTBFS on lpia, still haven't have a closer look, but it's faling
<nxvl> failing*
<NCommander> do we care about lpia ;-) *shot*
<NCommander> link to build log
<nxvl> http://qa.ubuntuwire.con/ftbfs
<nxvl> i cara about pia, it's what we use on netbooks
<nxvl> :D
<NCommander> con?
<NCommander> :-P
<NCommander> compiz is hosed because KDE is hosed
<NCommander> nxvl, your not a core dev, right?
 * NCommander notes that KDE just need a whole bunch of retrying to clear up the builds
<NCommander> ScottK, poke
<nxvl> nop
<NCommander> wait
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> crap
<NCommander> This might be my fault
<NCommander> Yes
<NCommander> Yes it is
<NCommander> Crap
 * NCommander is responsible for the upload that broke kde4bindings on lpia 
<NCommander> Which broke KDE
<NCommander> Which broke compiz
 * ajmitch claps
<NCommander> I thought we rolled back that upload
<NCommander> ajmitch, oh hush
<NCommander> Is it too late to get one last upload in? :-) *shot*
<azeem> that compiz log is from Oct 17th, AFAICT
<NCommander> azeem, its still broken
<NCommander> nxvl, is it the end of the world if compiz and friends have to be fixed via -updates?
 * cody-somerville blinks.
<slangasek> a) no, b) if it is it should have been escalated last week or earlier
<NCommander> cody-somerville, on lpia
<NCommander> oh well
<NCommander> slangasek, if a build is broken due to depwait, and that dep-wait is cleared via updates, (i.e. kde4bindings is fixed via updates), can those builds simply be retried, or do we need to push an upload to the -proposed/-uploads tree?
<slangasek> I believe soyuz will require a -proposed upload
<NCommander> wait
 * NCommander is off the hook
<NCommander> I didn't break bindings
<NCommander> *phew*
<NCommander> kde4bindings was dep-waited on libplasma2, and it didn't clear properly
<NCommander> It builds properly out of the box now it seems
<persia> nxvl, Just as a counter statement : fixing FTBFS during this 48-hour window isn't very useful : one wants to have done that *before* archive freeze.  For now, there's just image testing and waiting for -proposed to open (which usually happens within a couple days of release).
<NCommander> persia, I'm sorta suprised proposed isn't already open (it already exists along w/ backports and updates)
<coppro> what is -proposed? Not familiar with that archive [/newb]
<persia> NCommander, Well, it accepts uploads, but they get blocked in unaccepted as a side effect of the current state of the main archive, and the release team is busy with other things, so doesn't accept them.
<persia> Err.  It *allows* uploads ...
<rhpot1991> ScottK ScottK-laptop ping
<persia> coppro, -proposed is a respository to which candidates for -updates are uploaded for testing before they get passed in SRUs.
<ScottK-laptop> Yes
<ScottK-laptop> rhpot1991: ^^
 * NCommander also notes the existance of backports
<coppro> thanks
<rhpot1991> ScottK-laptop: superm1 told me to come and talk to you about a package
<ScottK-laptop> Uh oh.
<ScottK-laptop> What's up?
<rhpot1991> I fixed some bugs, but I guess the archive is locked now
<persia> NCommander, backports are not supposed to be used for things that fix bugs.
<ScottK-laptop> rhpot1991: It is, but intrepid-proposed is open if they are severe problems that should be fixed post-release.
<rhpot1991> wondering what I should do
<persia> (well, excepting bugs in backports packages)
<NCommander> persia, we have used it for minor bugs that don't meet SRU certeria
<persia> NCommander, That didn't include new upstream versions?
<NCommander> persia, as long as the fix is in a newer release, we can backport it
<ScottK-laptop> persia: Yes.  If it's too minor for SRU then a backport isn't actually harmful.
<NCommander> Generlaly, if a backport is for a bug fix, we ask them to get SRUs two cents
<persia> ScottK, OK.  I think that represents a change in policy, but don't explicitly object.
<NCommander> If SRU rejects, we backport it then
<rhpot1991> ScottK-laptop: there are 3 of them listed here: https://code.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythexport/trunk
<rhpot1991> they are far from critical to systems
<ScottK-laptop> persia: My interpretation of the guidance from the TB is that backports should not be a path to avoid SRU so that all users benifit from fixing significant bugs.
<ScottK-laptop> I think using backports for both minor fixing and new features is consistent with that policy.
<ScottK-laptop> rhpot1991: Pointing me at bzr isn't goint to get us very far.
<rhpot1991> sorry, was pointing at the 3 bugs on that page
<NCommander> where is this guidance on backports
<persia> ScottK, Makes sense.  I'm more going off my memory of the BackportsProcess wiki page, which may well be out of date.
<NCommander> persia, the BackportsProcess page is out of date
<NCommander> (at least with respect to some things like testing requirements)
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: That's my recollection of what jdong told me his guidance from the TB was when backports was brought in out of the wilderness and made official.
<rhpot1991> ScottK-laptop: basically just looking for where to go from here, I would have liked to have gotten them in, but since I didn't should I start a SRU?
<NCommander> I know we've done somethings with backports that bend the rules (i.e. KDE 3.5.10, since that wasn't pulled from intrepid)
<ScottK-laptop> rhpot1991: That's the path you should take.  I'm not on the motu-sru team and so I can't approve it.
<rhpot1991> ScottK-laptop: thanks, was just looking for a little guidance.  Think its a good idea to start it now or wait till after release?
<ScottK-laptop> Now.
<persia> NCommander, Perhaps you'd like to update it so those of us less familiar with backports don't get confused?
<rhpot1991> ok, thanks
<ScottK-laptop> Stuff can be uploaded to intrepid-proposed now.  It just doesn't get published until after release.
<NCommander> persia, probably a good idea, but I'll let jdong do that, since backports is his baby, and I might leave something out important
<NCommander> (the only section I think that is vastly out of date are the testing requirements, which are pretty much relaxed down to one confirmed b/i/r)
<persia> NCommander, Probably faster to update it, and point him at the updates for confirmation : it's usually less work to review a 90% complete job than to start from scratch.
<NCommander> persia, we should note the exception to the rule that every backport must come from an Ubuntu release
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Let's not broadcast that one too broadly.
<persia> If that restriction is lifted, it would be good to change.  I've told lots of people they have to wait for a backport based on that rule.
<NCommander> persia, its a sanity rule
<NCommander> If backprots > next release
<NCommander> Bad things happen
<ScottK-laptop> persia: The only times we've relaxed it is when it wasn't possible to do otherwise.
<persia> ScottK, So what is the appropriate guidance to give requestors?  "No, you can't have a backport until it is available in the next release" or "File a bug against backports : the backports team will be able to determine if it is possible to backport that release"?
<NCommander> THe only exception we make usually is if the release in development is unusable for backports, but there is a version (from sid, or simply repackaging a tarball) can be done
<ScottK-laptop> persia: The advice is no you can't have it until it's in a later Ubuntu release.
<ScottK-laptop> If it won't/can't be in a later release, then we can talk.
<coppro> so when will we see OO.o 3.0
<NCommander> coppro, when it lands in jaunty, then backported to both intrepid and hardy
 * ScottK-laptop notes we do have python3.0 packages.
<persia> ScottK, OK.  I'll keep providing that guidance.  If someone doesn't believe me (hey, I'm not on the backports team), and pushes, perhaps they will discover the possibility of exception.
<coppro> is there any way to keep track of what's in backports?
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  I've now used Ubuntu and I didn't like it.
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop, O_o?
<NCommander> persia, you should come join us down in backports
<ScottK-laptop> Yeah.  Dead box and I needed a Live CD session to get a needed .deb on the hard drive.
<coppro> you normally a KDE guy?
<nxvl> persia: for hardy i remember we did that
<ScottK-laptop> The only remaining Hardy CDs I have are from the stack of 10 Ubuntu CDs I got from ship-it because someone didn't notice (I guess) the K
<ScottK-laptop> coppro: Yes.
 * coppro is also K
<ScottK-laptop> I needed a Hardy CD because this box won't boot Intrepid so far.
 * nxvl hates the K
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> what i actually hate is that EVERY package start with K
<nxvl> that annoys me
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Have you tried KDE4?
<nxvl> yup
<nxvl> still hate it
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: You mean like Kompozer?
<nxvl> Konsole
<nxvl> Kopete
<NCommander> K Desktop Environment
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Kompozer is not a KDE package.
<nxvl> Konkeror
<persia> nxvl, We did it over the weekend before release (we did that this time too).
<persia> NCommander, I don't currently have the available resources to also work on backports, but thanks for the invitation.
<nxvl> persia: really? i remember to be running against the time before the release or it was before the freeze?
<persia> nxvl, It was before the freeze.  There was a similar run this time, but not as many people joined (and you weren't one of them).
<nxvl> right
<nxvl> it was before freeze
<nxvl> i remember you said "keep uploading until someone tells you to stop"
<nxvl> :D
<ScottK-laptop> Yeah, well you've been told to stop.
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> now i remember
<nixternal> kind of like gedit, gstreamer, gdesklets, gconf, gvfs, and more?  <- nxvl  :P
<nxvl> now it's clearer why i remember that so closer to this date
<nxvl> nixternal: that's why i don't use most of them, or if i do i don't know i use them
<nxvl> :D
<persia> nxvl, So, next time, plan your time so you can chase stuff madly for the 72 hours after RC releases.
<nxvl> what i actually love about Gnome and why i don't use KDE is that with gnome yo don't notice the desktop, it's just there silent, but with KDE you notice it every day since you can, and you mostly do, configure it the way you want
<persia> nxvl (or just fix all the FTBFS and RCbugs before this)
<nxvl> persia: i think i did it, and i was confusing it with the 48 hours before hardy
<nxvl> persia: but it was the 48 hourse before RC freeze, or beta
<nxvl> anyway, need to reboot, brb
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<stefanlsd> james_w: you around?
<didrocks> morning o/
<directhex> is it? bah :(
<huats> morning !
<BugMaN> morning huats
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<Hobbsee> hey sistpoty|work!
<sistpoty|work> hi Hobbsee
<huats> Laney: once you are back ping me :)
<Laney> good day huats ;)
<verwilst> has TKIP for wireless been removed for intrepid?
<highvoltage> verwilst: do you have an atheros card?
<verwilst> euh no Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
<persia> I've seen some traffic about issues with that card, but I think there was a solution found.  Check the release notes to be sure.
<verwilst> well it's not really a traffic issue
<verwilst> you just can't choose TKIP anymore
<verwilst> which is used in our corporate network
<huats> ping nxvl
<cambridgecow> is getdeb.net in anyway associated with the MOTU's?
<joaopinto> cambridgecow, no
<laga> i hope not
<gouki> cambridgecow, no. getdeb.net is a project by a member of the ubuntu-pt community.
<joaopinto> gouki, correction, by a team :P
<gouki> There you are :P
<ScottK-laptop> But it would not be correct to infer that getdeb was in any way associated with Ubuntu.
<joaopinto> ScottK-laptop, please add the word "officially", getdeb is driven by/to the Ubuntu community
<nevans> question about a version number: 1.3.0~RC1really1.2.0-2ubuntu3 ... what does that mean?  is it 1.3.0 RC1 or 1.2.0?  :)
<DktrKranz> nevans: is it ruby?
<nevans> that's from http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/rubygems ... I'm just looking into certain packages before I upgrade.
<nevans> DktrKranz, yep
<nevans> rubygems: the perpetual annoyance to packagers, I'm sure.
<mathiaz> nevans: it's 1.2.0
<nevans> mathiaz, then why the 1.3.0~RC1?  :)
<mathiaz> nevans: long story - see bug 145267 for more information. short version: 1.3.0RC1 was uploaded but reverted later to 1.2.0
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 145267 in libgems-ruby "Add rubygems bin to PATH" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145267
<nevans> mathiaz, thanks.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work
<RainCT> porthose: I've read your idea (and I had actually though about someting similar before), but give me some more time to think about it :)
<nxvl> persia: http://jamesburkle.wordpress.com/2008/10/28/motu-mentors-mailing-list/ <- that's what you were trying to avoid?
 * persia grumbles at epiphany freezing hard when trying to add an exception for an invalid security certificate
<stefanlsd> heh. great way to get +1 on your app. heh. doesnt really seem to offer any constructive or address the source first.
<RainCT> persia: btw, I've just created a patch for the REVU cookies to last longer. I'll apply it on production once I'm sure that it's working :)
<persia> nxvl, Yep.  That's precisely what I wanted to avoid.  Either that belongs on -motu, or some set of people have to be watching -motu-mentors, and answering the questions.
<nxvl> yup
<nxvl> agreed
<persia> RainCT, Thanks.  Is it not possible for them to last a very long time (at least the length of the session, if not indefinitely)?
<RainCT> persia: The patch is for mod_python to let the cookies last as long as the session, and the session is currently expires after 86400 seconds, but I'm going to make that configurable
<persia> RainCT, Hrm.  OK.  The part that always confused me about REVU was that sometimes I could reboot, and it would keep me logged in, but sometimes closing my browser was enough that I had to log in again, and sometimes I had to log in again while actively working with REVU (timeout would happen between loading a page and entering the comment).
<persia> Would it be possible instead to have it be something like 1 hour past the last page load in a session, or similar?
<persia> Aboslute timeframes work badly for this sort of thing, to my mind.
<RainCT> persia: I'd say that's what it'll do now (replacing "1 hour" with the configured amount), but if you still experience the same problem after I apply the patch tell me and I'll have another look at mod_python's..
<RainCT> s/mod_python's/mod_python/
<persia> RainCT, Well, I'm not likely to be a heavy REVU user for another week or two, but if I get another session timeout while working with REVU, I'll let you know right away.
<jdong> siretart: what are our plans for VLC 0.9.5?
<siretart> jdong: ATM I don't have any plans for that. Feel free to update if you feel like it
<jcastro> YokoZar: slots are running out, hurry!
<jdong> ScottK: ^^ what do you feel as ~motu-release regarding the above? VLC 0.9.5 fixes a security bug and "various bugfixes" as described by upstream
<siretart> jdong: TBH, this looks like SRU stuff to me right now. my current plan is to get the vlc package in debian updated first
<jdong> siretart: yeah, I agree on this. For no rdepends, I woudln't mind tracking upstream 0.9.x releases in -updates
<sistpoty|work> jdong: I don't think we have much chance to get anything sqeezed into intrepid itself right now --> updates would be more appropriate
<sistpoty|work> (or maybe -security)
<jdong> sistpoty|work: agreed.
<jdong> I'm gonna play with a POC for the exploit
<jdong> I want to see if it would get caught by our passive hardening.
<jdong> [00000379] ty demux error: Unsupported SEQ bitmap size in master chunk
<jdong> *** stack smashing detected ***: vlc terminated
<jdong> siretart: ^^ :)
<siretart> jdong: cool :-)
<jdong> siretart: yeah, a much better prospect than random code execution on double-clicking a .mpg file :)
<jdong> i love GCC hardening.
<siretart> we should still fix the issue though
<YokoZar> jcastro: haha cool I got the spot after Mark :)
<jcastro> YokoZar: rock
<jcastro> YokoZar: I don't know why people didn't pick that before, it's like 300+ people off the bat
<jdong> siretart: absolutely we should but it's not as deathly urgent as it would be
<YokoZar> jcastro: because he just picked it ;)  Was blank 2 minutes ago, I put in mine and then by coincidence he got it.
<siretart> jdong: indeed
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<lobo-ptr> hi, I've created a patch for bug http://is.gd/5290 . This is my first attempt to fix a bug in Ubuntu and I'm a little confused with freeze. Don't know if I should post it now or after new 8.10 release.
<geser> lobo-ptr: you can add it now too, but as the bug isn't important it won't get fixed for intrepid. You patch should get applied on the next upload (for jaunty)
<lobo-ptr> geser, thanks, I'll do that
<sebner> ScottK-laptop: Added a comment to the ogle removal request (set to invalid)
<sebner> emgent: \o/
<geser> lobo-ptr: I gave a quick look at your debdiff and it looks good.
<lobo-ptr> geser, cool :]
<lobo-ptr> geser, i've changed bug status to fix committed, but now I'm in doubt, if Iiiiiiiii should do this
<fabrice_sp_> Hi. With the Intrepid now out (or near), what can I do with bugs like Bug #290164?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290164 in antlr "[Intrepid] cantlr package is not installable. Depends on antlr-gcj instead of libantlr-java-gcj" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290164
<geser> lobo-ptr: looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status, I guess Triaged would be better (Fix Commited is wrong according to that page)
<lobo-ptr> geser, you're right, but now i can't set it back to triaged
<geser> why not?
<geser> lobo-ptr: I've done it now.
<lobo-ptr> geser, don't know, option is not available in dropdown
<lobo-ptr> geser, thanks
<lobo-ptr> geser, do I need to do something else?
<jcastro> straw poll: when you guys have a patch to send upstream do you do it in the upstream bug tracker directly or do you put it in lp and then put a link in the upstream bug tracker?
<laga> i put it in the upstream bug tracker directly.
<laga> upstream has a bug tracker for a reason. they usually do not want to go to whatever $distro uses
<ScottK-laptop> jcastro: Upstream bug tracker.
<ScottK-laptop> jcastro: A lot of FOSS projects aren't a fan of LP.  Most of my 'upstreaming' is to Debian and it's particularly true there.
<calc> when i report bugs upstream to OOo I usually just put the url to the file in launchpadlibrarian since they limit attachments to only 1MB so I generally don't both to attach directly anymore
<ScottK-laptop> jcastro: Additionally, I think we want to make life as easy as possible for upstream.
<calc> s/both/bother/
<jcastro> ok so let's say you're looking at a bug and a user posts the patch, you do all the discussion and review etc. in lp then when it's ready you just post it upstream?
<jcastro> calc: ah that's interesting
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.  With an explanation of why the patch is needed and what it does
<calc> a lot of the files i want to attach are more than 1MB which is why i don't even bother to check the size then attach or link anymore
<calc> esp microsoft related binary files
<jcastro> ScottK-laptop: so I know this seems like common sense and best practice, I am just wondering if we need to explain that better to new contributors
<calc> memory dumps for document types are ewww :(
<ScottK-laptop> jcastro: I have a hard time finding my way through our docs now, so I'm not the best one to ask about how we explain stuff.
<ScottK-laptop> I mostly find stuff in the wiki via redirects from old pages it seems.
<jcastro> yeah so I was noticing that which is why I ended up here
<ScottK-laptop> jcastro: I'd suggest ask a new contributor.
<ScottK-laptop> Gotta run.
<DktrKranz> doko, could you please comment on bug 211309? it seems it has been fixed differently in bug 258624.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 211309 in icedtea-gcjwebplugin "[hardy] Java plugin not registered in Firefox 2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211309
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258624 in icedtea-gcjwebplugin "openjdk-6 6b11 only builds for firefox-3.0 based browsers" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258624
<DktrKranz> jdong, did you do any progress with bug 200025?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 200025 in gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg "Please backport gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200025
<jdong> DktrKranz: I got stuck on that bug at the point of finding a video file to demonstrate the phenomenon
<jdong> verification is going to be difficult by strict SRU guidelines as a failure case is hard to point out
<DktrKranz> jdong, thanks
<ScottK> jdong: Stuck finding a video file or stuck finding one you were willing to admit you'd watched?
<jdong> DktrKranz: yeah I'm really not sure how to proceed (or if we should proceed)
<jdong> ScottK: no comment ;-)
 * DktrKranz is curious
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-29
<jdong> urgh I've been makign so many hackages on my local install that my MOTU conscience is tingling.
 * wgrant burns jdong at the stake.
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: Just use your backports conscience instead. It'll be fine
 * StevenK files a backport request for libc6 from Intrepid to Hardy
<jdong> :)
<jdong> there we go. I "packaged" eclipse 3.4 :D
 * jdong watches everyone step back...
<stgraber> StevenK: don't forget to also include libc6's rdepends to that list :)
<StevenK> stgraber: Ouch :-)
<StevenK> That turns into: "I'd like to backport Intrepid to Hardy."
<stgraber> yeah :)
<stgraber> let's do a copy of Intrepid and rename it to Hardy 8.04.2
<ajmitch> StevenK: libc6 wouldn't break much
<persia> jdong, Did you send it to pkg-java?
<jdong> persia: it isn't april 1st quite yet :)
<jdong> and I think people are still twitching from my MOTU prank last year :)
<coppro> what prank was that?
 * ajmitch does not recall it
<wgrant> Automatix?
<jdong> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003513.html
<ScottK-laptop> yep
<jdong> btw I love how much intrepid's lintian screams at a default dh_make with all boilerplates included :D
<ajmitch> it has to be at least somewhat believable
<persia> jdong, The difference is that we have an interest in shipping eclipse, rather than it being the sort of software that makes us want to reinvoke the power of Miskatonic University on your domicile.
<persia> (not that you live in Waltham, but close enough)
<jdong> persia: absolutely, and I totally agree with you there. Just I need eclipse now for a project tomorrow :D
 * ScottK-laptop is busy trying to work around X bugs by shoving an xrandr call into the KDM init process.
<jdong> that makes me feel better :)
<coppro> jdong: is eclipse not in hardy?
<jdong> maybe my conscience won't force me to divulge details on my "AMD64" skype package :)
<jdong> coppro: not an appreciably recent version
<jdong> coppro: significant improvements have been made to eclipse in the past two years
<persia> jdong, intrepid has the latest netbeans, unless you're already addicted to blue.
 * ajmitch spots a jono
<coppro> jdong: what version is the current?
<jdong> persia: I'll have to try that out
<jdong> coppro: 3.4
<jono> hey ajmitch
<jono> :)
<coppro> intrepid is 3.2 :(
<ajmitch> jono: you must be in some weird timezone...
<jdong> coppro: and so has Ubuntu been for as long as I can recall
<ajmitch> btw, well done on your album :)
<coppro> ah, so you just packaged 3.4?
<jdong> coppro: that was a sarcastic joke
<coppro> oh
<coppro> I wasn't sure
<jdong> coppro: it involved wget and cp -av calls in debian/rules
<persia> jdong, You didn't package it?
<ajmitch> coppro: you'll get used to jdong...
<jdong> persia: it fit in a .deb file and will suffice locally :)
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: How can I backport it if you didn't package it?
 * persia is tempted to invoke ! 
<jdong> it is a jdong-approved 5-minute solution
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: source changes!
<coppro> btw, is there anyone not busy enough to REVU right now?
<ScottK-laptop> Bah.
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: Speaking of which, did you know that the sources for automated backports aren't signed?
<persia> coppro, Sure.  I'll do one.  It's been a while, and I should get into practice.  No promises it will be a good review.  Which one?
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: I was unaware
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: There's no way to sign them... and you can always grab them over HTTPS from LP.
<coppro> persia: one second; I wasn't expecting a yes
<ScottK-laptop> wgrant: I thought the librarian was http
<coppro> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metakit
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: Oh, hmm. You're right, only stuff in P3As is streamed.
<ajmitch> ScottK-laptop: by automated, you mean direct copies from one release to -backports?
<wgrant> That's why I wasn't complaining bitterly about that bug - I forgot it wasn't all over HTTPS.
<jdong> alright, now time to dive back into another person's Java codebase. this should be fun.
<ScottK-laptop> ajmitch: Yes.
<ScottK-laptop> wgrant: Go complain.
<ajmitch> right, so I'm not surprised that there's no gpg signature
<ScottK-laptop> It's fine internally, but then if have to grab the source to fix it, how do I get a trusted source on my box that I can sign and upload?
<persia> coppro, You should probably clean up your watch file, but why block new upstreams because there might be an ABI change?  Isn't that expected?
<ScottK-laptop> Too much DNS cache poisoning these days for me to trust in DNS I really got it from where I thought I did.
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: You'd have to verify against the changesfile, I guess.
<wgrant> But even that's probably not signed.
<ScottK-laptop> wgrant: It's not signed
<wgrant> And is over HTTP.
<wgrant> Damn.
<coppro> persia: good point
<persia> ScottK, It's not just DNS.  When was the last time you had an http request that didn't pass through a transparent proxy?
<coppro> but as I understand it, 2.5 would be a rewrite
<coppro> to the point of a new package
<ScottK-laptop> True.
<persia> coppro, I like to discourage having multiple versions as separate packages in the archive.  Defend your stance.
<coppro> persia: well, as far as I can tell from upstream, 2.5 would be a major change that would break backwards-compatibility, thus deserving a new package by policy as I understand it.
<persia> From where in policy do you take that understanding?
<wgrant> UbuntuGuide policy, probably.
<wgrant> I had the misfortune of seeing UbuntuGuide's Hardy sources.list earlier today.
<coppro> persia: the fact that other packages are named by ABI version, like libc6
<coppro> I recall reading it somewhere, but it was several months ago
<wgrant> ABI version != app version
<wgrant> And ABI version != source name
<coppro> it's not an app; it's a library
<coppro> and multiple versions must exist to avoid breakage when a new, backwards-incompatible ABI comes out
<persia> That's the binary package name.  While this sometimes applies for source package name, the use is incredibly rare, and must be defended.
<coppro> ah, I see
<coppro> I'm not using on the source package name
<coppro> but I understand the point about the watch file
<coppro> thanks for educating me!
<persia> No problem.  Thanks for defending your point rather than just believing that it must be wrong :)
<persia> coppro, Now for the fun bit : since you clearly undrestand the value of having the binary name change when the ABI changes, why do you have a lintian override for the lintian check for this?
<persia> (yes, I've read README.Debian)
<coppro> persia: because the package name is libmk4, which is the way the library is normally referred to by users. As such, naming it libmk-4 would be contrary to the existing usage, and libmk4-4 would be weird. I explained this in the changelog too!
 * persia should start reading changelogs earlier
<persia> Upstream should be bothered about this, so that later it can be libmk-5, and users can just do -lmk
<coppro> yeah, maybe if a new version ever looks to be coming out, I'll mention it. Changing it now would be more bother than help though
<persia> I don't really like updating config.{sub,guess} in debian/patches, but I suppose it's not invalid.  Do others have opinions about this?
<coppro> well, the problem was upstream used ancient versions
<coppro> I was told to file a bug upstream and patch from the ubuntu versions, which I did
<coppro> it was old enough to get a lintian warning
<persia> In my opinion, upstream shouldn't even ship those files, and we should use the ones from autotools-dev at build time.
 * ajmitch wishes autofoo didn't exist
<persia> ajmitch, How would you prefer to do portable C?
<ajmitch> by closing my eyes & hoping the problem disappears
<persia> Or do you think everyone ought permanently run Plan 9 on VAXen?
<ajmitch> its only reason for existence is because of this portability mess
<persia> Indeed.  So as long as we all use the same architecture and the same operating system, we don't have any issues.
<ScottK-laptop> I'm good with that.
<ajmitch> and I was just expressing that I'd like that to be :P
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Any idea on what to do with this bug: Bug #290164 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290164 in antlr "[Intrepid] cantlr package is not installable. Depends on antlr-gcj instead of libantlr-java-gcj" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290164
<coppro> persia: anything else?
<persia> fabrice_sp, Propose an SRU.  Prepare an SRU patch.  Talk to the SRU team.  Looks like it falls under "completely fails to function"
<fabrice_sp> ok. Thanks persia
<persia> coppro, I was distracted by autotools.
<coppro> heh, no worries
 * ajmitch is naughty & distracted persia 
<persia> coppro, There's a bunch of files without license headers.
<coppro> do I have to add those myself?
<coppro> :(
<persia> ajmitch, You're incapable of being naughty : you define correct behaviour
<ajmitch> if only that were true
<persia> coppro, No, you can't add those yourself : upstream has to add them.  licensing is the one thing you can't just patch away.
<coppro> ok
<persia> coppro, Also, you probably want to put the examples in /usr/share/doc/libmk4-dev/examples/
<persia> coppro, Also, once I find missing licenses, I usually stop reviewing, as it's not possible to include until upstream fixes that : if you've not already, run lintian against your local build.
<coppro> persia: lintian is clean except for one minor one
<persia> Which?
<coppro> I forgot to add a description to a patch file
<persia> Then you already know the solution :)
<coppro> yeah
<coppro> shame it can't be included without license headers; I know that there was an old package for this lib but it was removed; I wonder if it did anything about them
<persia> Anyway, rejected for now.  Go bug upstream : they should have a soname, and use -lmk, and license things properly, and not ship autotools hints files.
<persia> You'll find that license pickyness is inversely proportionate to the age of the package and the criticality of the package to making a system work at all.
<persia> metakit is new and non-essential, and so falls well into the extra-pickyness bucket.
<coppro> heh
<persia> (hint: extra points for care and labour for fixing this by updating copyright of old essential packages)
<coppro> the soname and -lmk definitely won't be fixed until the next ABI change; but the license headers and autotools hints could hopefully be fixed as a minor patch release
<persia> That sounds correct for an upstream who cares about the users.
<coppro> it's mostly a 1-man dev
<coppro> which makes things a lot easier in my experience
<persia> On a minor note, if you find a way to clean up the tests/ directory properly, that would probably be a good thing.
<coppro> persia: well, I could build where they want me too
<coppro> can you do cd within a make rule, or does that cause major breakage?
<persia> each line in a make rule is a separate subshell : you'll need to do some trickery.
<coppro> no, that's what I want
<coppro> just cd before each make command, I think
<persia> (please don't just stuff the whole rule into a single subshell : this is the wrong sort of trickery)
<coppro> and modify paths accordingly
<persia> That sounds relatively sane, although if you're unlike ajmitch, and push the work of doing it properly into autotools, that might be harder to break later.
<ajmitch> :P
<coppro> man, getting gcc to build must be tricky
<coppro> since building in project root is edgy at best
<persia> getting gcc to build it a little tricky.  Getting gcc to build without having gcc available is days of fun.
<ScottK-laptop> I'm going to get very tired of "Graph this data and manage this system at https://landscape.canonical.com/" every time I ssh into an Intrepid box.
<ajmitch> new adware?
<persia> Indeed.
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.
<ScottK-laptop> persia: Maybe you ought to ask the core-dev applicant who put that there why he thinks it's ok?
 * ScottK-laptop declares victory and goes to bed.
<NCommander> ScottK, remove landscape-client to make that go away
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Sure, but is it appropriate for it to be there at all?
<NCommander> ScottK, not my department
<ScottK-laptop> yeah.
<ScottK-laptop> I like the new MOTD with useful information in it, just not the info-mercial.
<persia> ScottK, I thought that the new motd package just allowed changes, and that landscape-client or something used it to set that.
<ScottK-laptop> I haven't investigated.
 * persia is unhappy about landscape-client being installed anywhere by default, but doesn't think that complaining would accomplish much
<ScottK-laptop> Well the client is at least FOSS.
 * NCommander always wondered if it really is FOSS if the server implemenation is closed
<NCommander> i.e. liblaunchpadintergration
<ScottK-laptop> Well that's what AGPL is all about (not that I think that's a FOSS license)
<ScottK-laptop> landscape-client at least does some actual stuff all by itself.
<persia> ScottK, freeness isn't my concern.
<ScottK-laptop> Right.  I can guess.
 * ScottK-laptop ponders how he should feel about his volunteer server work ending up making the press release.
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  Bed time.  Really.
<ScottK-laptop> Good night all.
<lukehasnoname> Question:
<lukehasnoname> Why is Eclipse at v 3.2.2 in the ibex repos, if the current release is 3.4.1?
<persia> lukehasnoname, Because it's a very frightening package to update.
<persia> lukehasnoname, There's a bit of discussion about it in the Debian Java mailing lists, if you want details, and in the Debian BTS.
<lukehasnoname> BTS?
<persia> Unless something goes tragically wrong, it really should be updated shortly after squeeze opens (and breaking the world is acceptable), and if that's soon enough, it can be pulled for Jaunty.
<persia> Bug Tracking System.
<lukehasnoname> squeeze?
<persia> lenny+1 == squeeze
<lukehasnoname> gotcha
 * Hobbsee eyes blueyed
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Hrm?
<Hobbsee> someone might want to mention to him that we're in a freeze, and so syncs won't get done.
<ajmitch> but it must be urgent, or it wouldn't have been filed
<StevenK> I bet
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<fabrice_sp> Hi dholbach
<fabrice_sp> (and ajmitch :-) )
<geser> good morning dholbach
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<dholbach> hi geser, hi fabrice_sp
<huats> motning everyone
<huats> morning
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<porthose> hi folks
<stefanlsd> hihi
<Repsa_Jih> Where do I go if I want to request a package?
<directhex> Repsa_Jih, simply requesting something from scratch rarely yields results, since you're asking people who might not care less about the app to put in their own time & effort. and an ancient proverb says: don't package something you don't use yourself
<persia> Mind you, wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages might be a good place to start either way.
<persia> Some people troll for requested packages to look for new things to try, although this isn't exactly common.
<Repsa_Jih> Then what do you suggest I do? This is about I game I've been developping, but I am on Arch Linux. I'd like to get a deb package... Well, I'd probably best ask an Ubuntu user, right?
<directhex> Repsa_Jih, what's the license, what's the app?
<persia> That's probably best.
<persia> Or for a game, you might also file an RFP (Request for Packaging) in Debian : the games team tend to include people happy to try out almost any game.
<Repsa_Jih> zlib/libpng license, app: http://annchienta.sf.net
 * persia remembers seeing annchienta in REVU
<persia> I seem to remember lots of packaging updates just before each Ubuntu release, when they couldn't be used, and then not so many right after an Ubuntu release when it had a good chance to be uploaded.
<persia> Nope.  I'm remembering incorrectly, according to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=annchienta
<persia> Repsa_Jih, Looks like it just needs someone to update the package in REVU to the new upstream, fix the outstanding comments, and it should be good to go.
<Repsa_Jih> allright, thanks
<nixternal> persia: my 8 liters is consumed during my 2 hour morning workout, and then I drink 4 to 8 more during the day combined
<nixternal> since you left the other chan :)
<persia> nixternal, Wow!  Do you not worry about hypoketosis?
<nixternal> haven't yet, but I also take a ton of supplements as well
<persia> Or do you just eat so many bananas that it doesn't matter.
<laga> i bet you need to pee a lot
<nixternal> I have cut back on the "blow up and become a monster" stage of my workouts
<persia> Oh, it's probably the supplements then.
<laga> (SCNR)
<nixternal> now I am in the "I need to lean out now and get chicks" stage :P
<nixternal> laga: speaking of pee...brb :)
<\sh> nixternal: you mean you will become the "KUbuntu-Hulk" (Blue Skin, Muscles, and any windows user will be punched to kde heaven)? ,-)
 * sistpoty|work calls it a day... cya
<RainCT_> OT, is there a substr function for char* in C++ or do I have to use a loop if I want to get ride of the first character?
<jdong> RainCT: add 1 to the pointer.
<\sh> RainCT: you mean, copy the string from char[1] to strlen(char[])? ,-)
<laga> ;3~
<laga> oops.
<RainCT> \sh: no, copy what in Python would be x[1:8] to another variable.. so what jdong said
<RainCT> thanks :)
<RainCT> jdong: so.. that would be   y = *x+1  , right?
<\sh> jdong: what if char* has only 2 byte, one real char and the \0 ?
<jdong> \sh: is the null string not a valid string?
<jdong> maye my C is a bit rusty.
<jdong> RainCT: y = x + 1
<jdong> RainCT: but yeah you should probalby do a bit of testing on strlen(x) to make sure it is a valid operation :)
<jdong> s/probably//
<\sh> jdong: for sure, but pointer arithmetic is a bit dangerous without knowing the real length of the char array
<jdong> \sh: yeah, I agree with you on that.
<jdong> I think checking strlen(x) > 1 will suffice for this case
<persia> RainCT, There are string manipulation functions in C for *char, and in C++ for String.  You want to use those.  Further, you probably want to test with something like kazken3ããããããã¶è¨³ãã¦ããã¾ãããto make sure it works for unexpected UTF8 data
<RainCT> (argh.. my X got mad :P)
<RainCT> jdong: yep, I'm already checking the length because I only want values that are 8 characters long :)
<persia> RainCT, 8 characters, or 8 bytes?
<RainCT> characters
<persia> even when that's 40 bytes?
<\sh> RainCT: http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/string/string/
<jdong> oh he did say C++.
<RainCT> dunno, but it's only numbers anyway (and the code is not to be released, so don't worry I won't kill your PC :P)
<\sh> RainCT: include <string> int main() { std::string s,s2; s="Hello"; s2=s.substr(1,8); printf("%s",s2.c_str()); return(0);} should be correct
<\sh> oh my s="hello" is not > 8 ,-) please append ,-)
<jdong> substr is smart enough not to misbehave in that situation ,right?
 * jdong RTFMs
<\sh> jdong: http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/string/string/substr.html <- regarding this, it should be intelligent enough...but who knows ,-)
<jdong> "If this value would make the substring to span past the end of the current string content, only those characters until the end of the string are used."
 * persia recommends feeding it CJK input and seeing if it breaks
<highvolt1ge> man just make Michael Casadevall 'n MOTU already! sheesh!
<\sh> I wonder if std::string is unicode safe
<jdong> \sh: doesn't that depend on what you initialize the type to be for the template?
<\sh> jdong: could be...but using the default basic_string<char> setting, I don't really think it's safe
<jdong> \sh: I'd agree.
<slytherin> NCommander: ping
<\sh> jdong: I had a nice little python quiz last time: what is the result of (1 and -1) * (1 or -1) (enable python mode) ...
<jdong> should be -1 * 1
<jdong> though I don't believe the short-circuit is actually officially stated :)
<jdong> one of those use-it-while-it-lasts things
<RainCT> \sh, char is more fun than string :P
<jdong> \sh: I've seen someone build an interesting string of lambdas anded and or'ed together, then the result is ()'ed. I'd consider that violent protest for switch/case constructs in python :)
<\sh> jdong: right :) but I was asking myself why? because if you swap the the first term to (-1 and 1) * (-1 or 1) , then the results of both terms are 1 * -1 ... so I though to myself, it's bug, because it shouldn't use signed values != 0 for a boolean true
<RainCT> o.O
<\sh> RainCT: they are interchangeable ;) the constructure also takes a const char * to initialize your string ,-)
<\sh> constructor ...
<\sh> damn I should go home and sleepÃ¤
<\sh> in the last couple of weeks I had too many strange things to explain (regarding bash, python and powershell ,-)) for myself
<jdong> \sh: well (true and A) == A; true or B == b... There's got to be some weird logic or numbering system that one can make out of these operators :)
<jdong> wait a second
<jdong> I see what you're saying.
<jdong> lol I should be paying attention to lecture right now... :)
<\sh> #!/bin/bash function foo() { echo "bla" ; ssh -f host.domain.tld "<exec some command on remote host with output>" > /tmp/fifofile ; ps -ef|grep "ssh \-f"|grep -vi "grep"|awk '{print $2}'; } process_id=`bla` ; echo $process_id ;exit(0)
<jdong> \sh: if you get really bored, try (False, True) = (True, False)
<jdong> hilarity ensues.
<\sh> jdong: well, True and False are just simple global constants..but the real boolean true in python is something != 0 , because 0 is the only false...but it's funny to play with those theoretical things ,-)
<\sh> if you set -x after #!/bin/bash you can see that it's stopping execution of the script when trying to call ssh -f ... and it waits there forever...until I discovered (and interpretated the man page correctly) that you can't do any piping to stdout in bash functions
<jdong> \sh: Indeed, the core engine still behaves correctly in terms of boolean logic, but there are about 2000 uses of literal True and False in my site-packages that probalby won't be happy :)
<\sh> jdong: yepp :)
<jdong> \sh: there's also weirdness in that bool([]) is false but [] != False :)
<slytherin> NCommander: a bit of analysis about the freeze I was getting on my ibook. I saw two types of messages in the kernel panic messages. Something like 'b43_interrupt_handler' and 'b43_rfkill'. Not sure what they mean exactly. Also I found out that I was uisng old firmware version for my broadcom wireless card. Since I updated to newer version the freezes are very less. I last 4 hours of use I have seen a freeze only once as opposed to 1 al
<\sh> jdong: the most annoying part of bool handling in python is: bool("True")==True but bool("False")!=False ... now this is totally stupid, especially when you work with configparser and you feed it str(False)
<jdong> \sh: yeah, that's annoyingly inconsistent that bool(str) doesn't construct a boolean from its string representation.
<\sh> the bool object should have an automatic recognition of "False" str representation and convert it automatically to 0
 * POX hopes bool("False") will always be != False
<POX> use PHP if you want different
<\sh> POX: then it needs str(False) == "0"
<jdong> POX: sure when converting a string object to a boolean
<jdong> POX: but there needs to be an inverse-toString() constructor for bool too
<jdong> i.e. something("False") should be str(False)
<jdong> rather, something(str(False)) == False
<jdong> and int() uses that definition for int(str)
<jdong> thus adding to the inconsistency.
<\sh> bool(str(False))==True sometimes my brain just needs beer to understand this ,-)
<jdong> \sh: probably the moral is don't be using str() as a serialization tool :D
<ScottK-laptop> Doesn't it all change in Python3.0 anyway?
<ScottK-laptop> Note that we have Python3.0 RC packages in Intrepid.
<jdong> I hope so
<jdong> that's the one chance this decade to start over and get it right.
<\sh> ScottK: well, let's play with 2.6 first, and try to make a smooth transition to 3.0
<ogra> beer!
<jdong> yeah that's right, taunt the underaged.
<\sh> I think most apps coded with 2.3/2.4/2.5 will break
<ogra> (no, i'm not highlighting on that)
<\sh> ogra: a good plan
<laga> jdong: are you underaged?
<ScottK-laptop> \sh: Yes, although there are a goodly number of tools and docs on how to port that should make it doable.
<ogra> laga, he comes from the country where you can marry with 18 but not drink anything at your wedding ;)
<\sh> ScottK: right...but it's time consuming...just as timeconsuming as any new gnu c++ version ,-)
<jdong> laga: I am indeed :)
<laga> jdong: oops. :)
<jdong> ogra: don't forget get shipped off to Iraq.
<ogra> oh, right :)
<ogra> well, you elected him ... (at least some did)
<ScottK-laptop> Although that dichotomy (the age related one) has been around for ~ 2 decades now.
<\sh> ogra: yes, the court...the citizens voted differently...these days..
 * ogra points \sh to http://isitbeeroclock.com/
<\sh> ogra: lol
<jdong> yeah and now we have to choose between Mr inflate-your-tires energy policy and that other guy who will probably collapse in a few months.
<jdong> fun fun fun.
<ogra> well, he has at least an *intelligent* vice ....
<ogra> *grin*
<jdong> ogra: why can't they just replace her with Tina Fey for real?
<laga> but biden doesnt wink as cute
<jdong> I'd go for that.
<ogra> or cindy lauper :)
<ogra> from an european POV your elections are quite a joke to be honest ...
<jdong> ogra: from an American POV I agree.
<ogra> the scary part is that the elected person is the most powerful in the world at the end
<POX> ScottK-laptop: (python3.0) seriously? in official repositories?
<POX> jdong: new_bool = lambda x : {"False": False, "0": False, 0: False}.get(x, bool(x))
<laga> ogra, jdong: the elections are also making reddit, digg and other social news sites unusable
<ScottK-laptop> POX: Yes.  It's in Universe, so not supported.
 * ogra doesnt use either
<jdong> POX: well. yes. of course one can do that.
<laga> ScottK-laptop: "not supported by canonical".
<POX> jdong: it's still PHP-like for me
<ScottK-laptop> laga: True, but in this case I think that adds up to 'not supported'
<ScottK-laptop> POX: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python3.0
<POX> ScottK-laptop: I'd say doko is brave :)
<laga> ScottK-laptop: yeah ;)
<ScottK-laptop> Brave would be one word for it.
<doko> POX: these are there for experiments
<POX> but in official release?
<doko> it's universe, and we'll update those to the final release
<POX> people complained about python2.5 in Etch even if it wasn't supported
<doko> don't ask me which motu did approve them ;p
<POX> i.e. pyversions -s
<POX> oh, so it wasn't your decision?
<doko> did we have 2.5 in etch?
<POX> yes
<POX> and lots of complains (at least I received lots of them)
<POX> ("why did you included it anyway if it's not supported")
<POX> s/included/include
<ScottK> I think for 3.0 the case is a lot clearer.  There is a large porting task ahead for the Python community and so providing an easy way to support that without demolishing user systems is a good idea.
<\sh> early adopting is a good thing for developers, most likely 2 teams in companies are working on project X, one fixing bugs in actual release, and one porting it to a new version of the devel language...is a good thing
<ajmitch> morning
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> good to see that people are still here & not passed out from stress
 * ajmitch looks at -devel & uploads a new mc flagged as essential
<POX> .oO( poor guy, he's reading -devel )
<ScottK> ajmitch: And if you believe it's not essential you are clearly an idiot and don't get it.
 * POX is not reding debian lists anymore, he's working on Debian instead
<ajmitch> ScottK: obviously
<ScottK> POX: This was ubuntu-devel-discuss.
<POX> oh
<POX> :)
<POX> I don't read it either :)
<ScottK> Didn't miss much.
 * pochu unsubscribed from -discuss long time ago
<POX> ScottK: yeah, I have spies that ping me when my name is mentioned somewhere ;)
<pochu> I have enough with -devel :-)
<POX> ScottK: thanks, btw
<pochu> heh
<gulyan> hey all :)
<gulyan> can someone review my package? :D
<gulyan> this is the link http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=bricker
<gulyan> I would really appreciate it :)
 * nhandler goes to look at it
<laga> gulyan: please fix debian/changelog, it needs to be uploaded to jaunty instead of hardy
<gulyan> ok, I was waiting for the official release before updating the distribution
<gulyan> I'll change it now :)
<marcin_ant> hello MOTU's
<RainCT> hi marcin_ant
<marcin_ant> I would like to ask about some package I would like to modify
<marcin_ant> there is package named zope-pas
<marcin_ant> this software can be downloaded as upstream tar.gz but in this original tar there is subfolder containing source code /PluggableAuthService-1.4.2
<chrisccoulson> hi, i'm currently working on fixing bug 262708, which is fixed in debian. i was just going to copy their fix, but after looking through the changelog in the latest debian version of the package, the only changes since the last sync of this package are all bugfixes to get the package working, and are all relevant to ubuntu too. so, should i modify the package and bump the version to 'ubuntu1', or could i just request a sync of the pa
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262708 in opencryptoki "package opencryptoki None [modified: /var/lib/dpkg/info/opencryptoki.list] failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/opencryptoki/stdll/libpkcs11_sw.so', which is also in package libopencryptoki0" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262708
<marcin_ant> but source package from debian/ubuntu contains source code in /
<james_w> chrisccoulson: do you think it should be an SRU?
<chrisccoulson> the package is not installable in its current state
<laga> gulyan: i've added some comments. i'm not a MOTU, though :)
<james_w> chrisccoulson: ok, so for intrepid you should prepare an update not sync.
<marcin_ant> orig.tar.gz has all of it's content moved from /PluggableAuthService-1.4.2 to / and I'm reading maint-guide which says that wrong directory layout is not a reason to modify original tar.gz
<laga> gulyan: intrepid will be released tomorrow, you can't add new packages to intrepid
<james_w> chrisccoulson: collapsing the changelog since the last sync to one entry, changing the details, including the version number, then explaining where the changes came from and giving proper attribution would work.
<gulyan> ok, thx for the comments and advice :D
<marcin_ant> should I consider this as a bug and in my new version of this package should I keep original directory layout from upstream tar?
<chrisccoulson> i can do that. the only reason i asked is that there is also another bug which makes the software not work, which I was going to fix in the same debdiff. but that is also fixed in debian. if i apply both fixes, then the package is basically in sync with the latest debian package, but will have a different version number
<chrisccoulson> i don't mind doing the work though, it's not going to take me too long to fix
<gulyan> update done to the package, thx again laga :)
<marcin_ant> could someone help me with packaging?
<marcin_ant> I just need like to know what to do if I got upstream tar with non-native directory layout
<ma10> jdong: i'm doing some testing on what you asked in bug 264950. It looks good, another random port is automatically chosen. What do you think about this issue anyway?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264950 in azureus "Azureus doesn't allow ports above 49151" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264950
<marcin_ant> is there anyone that can answer some trivial question about packaging? please
<azeem> marcin_ant: probably nobody is arrogant enough that they would admit they could answer any trivial questions
<azeem> marcin_ant: so better just ask your question and hope somebody knows
<marcin_ant> azeem: thing is -> I want to follow PackagingGuide so:
<marcin_ant> azeem: mkdir zope-pas
<marcin_ant> azeem: cd zope-pas
<marcin_ant> azeem: wget http://www.zope.org/Products/PluggableAuthService/PluggableAuthService-1.4.2/PluggableAuthService-1.4.2.tar.gz
<marcin_ant> azeem: cp PluggableAuthService-1.4.2.tar.gz zope-pas_1.4.2.orig.tar.gz
<azeem> marcin_ant: why do you ask me?
<marcin_ant> azeem: tar -xzvf zope-pas_1.4.2.orig.tar.gz
<azeem> I didn't say I can answer trivial questions
<marcin_ant> and I'm stuck because tar unpacks to PluggableAuthService-1.4.2
<azeem> that's usually not a problem
<marcin_ant> can I change internal directory structure of original tarball?
<marcin_ant> PackagingGuide says that I cannot....
<azeem> why do you want to change?  What error/problem are you running into?
<marcin_ant> (sorry about asking you directly ;) )
<marcin_ant> I should have source code unpackaged to directory with zope-pas-1.4.2 (in my example) right?
<azeem> "should", not "must"
<marcin_ant> but original tarball has different directory structure
<azeem> 23:17 < azeem> that's usually not a problem
<azeem> 23:18 < azeem> why do you want to change?  What error/problem are you running into?
<jdong> ma10: my comments added
<marcin_ant> azeem: so are you saying that I can copy PluggableAuthService-1.4.2.tar.gz to zope-pas-1.4.2.orig.tar.gz
<marcin_ant> azeem: then untar this orig file
<azeem> I thought you already did this above?
<marcin_ant> and then it will produce PluggableAuthService-1.4.2
<marcin_ant> and should I just cd to this directory add debian subdir and build deb?
<ma10> jdong: thanks, i was writing a reply of my own
<marcin_ant> azeem: ?
<azeem> marcin_ant: why don't you try yourself?
<azeem> it's doesn't scale at all if you ask for advice before every step you take
<ma10> jdong: btw, i have the new  version packaged and ready, what should I do? Open the please update bug as soon as jaunty archives are opened?
<jdong> ma10: yeah let's upload it into Jaunty when it opens
<jdong> ma10: does it build on Intrepid, too? :)
<ma10> jdong: sure, where could i have tested it? :) i'd like to be able to backport before release..
<jdong> ma10: haha ok stupid question... See I'm drinking coffee now, the effect has not kicked in yet!
<jdong> ma10: Unless ScottK is in a really bored mood (highly unlikely) let's just wait until Jaunty can upload, to do the backport. I don't expect that to be more than 1.5 weeks away.
<marcin_ant> azeem: ok thank you, my package build without errors
<marcin_ant> azeem: but then last question is - why when I will apt-get source zope-pas (current version)
<jdong> ma10: btw thanks so much for taking care of Azureus -- it's been historically one of the most troubled/neglected packages in Ubuntu :)
<marcin_ant> azeem: this command will download zope-pas_1.4.2.tar.gz which has different internal directory structure?
<marcin_ant> azeem: it has /zope-pas-1.4.2/sourcecode.... ?
<marcin_ant> azeem: not /PluggableAuthService-1.4.2 like in orig.tar.gz?
<azeem> zope-pas_1.4.2.tar.gz ?
<azeem> marcin_ant: what is your .orig.tar.gz called exactly?
<ma10> jdong: true, i'm still running it from a manual installation on hardy.. what a shame, it feels like windows.. my concern now is that we're diverging quite a bit from debian. Their last upload was a NMU with some weird stuff in it. I'm afraid the next merge will be painful..
<jdong> ma10: correct me if I'm wrong but Debian is still interested in preserving GCJ compatibility, right?
<jdong> no I am wrong.
<ma10> jdong: they gave up on that
<marcin_ant> azeem: ooooops sorry
<marcin_ant> azeem: you are absolutely right thank you
<ma10> jdong: wait i try to grab a diff
<marcin_ant> azeem: in ubuntu there is 1.4.1 version which has orig.tar.gz like it should
<marcin_ant> azeem: I got 1.4.2 from some unofficial repository with modified upstream tar
<marcin_ant> azeem: thank you very much :)
<azeem> cheers
<ma10> jdong: http://paste.ubuntu.com/64334/ -- they dropped gcj and they now force it to run with the jre that was used for building, if i read the perl lines correctly..
<jdong> ma10: it doesn't look too unreasonable to me
<ma10> jdong: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=495514 it was discussed here.
<ubottu> Debian bug 495514 in azureus "azureus and openjdk" [Serious,Closed]
<ma10> jdong: I don't know if hand-selecting jres in the startup script is a good approach. I mean java compatibility is a real problem, but I think it should be solved on a higher level, not in every single package's scripts. There should be an infrastructure for blacklisting jres as needed.
<ma10> jdong: otherwise, you defy the purpose of the alternatives system
<jdong> ma10: my personal opinion.. at this point Ubuntu selects a reasonable JRE by default (AFAIK)
<jdong> ma10: we should respect the user's alternative.
<jdong> ma10: now that was different when we used GCJ by default with which azureus is known not to work
<ma10> jdong: that's what i think. So, correct me if i'm wrong: build with default-jdk, depend on default-jre | java-runtime and launch by calling "java" directly. If the user selected alternative doesn't work with the package, well, that's his problem. A blacklisting system wuold help, but we should disregard the selected alternative
<ma10> * we should not disregard.. sorry
<jdong> ma10: at most I would blacklist the current version of GCJ or at least scream loudly if it's detected and continue anyway
<jdong> ma10: but yes, I agree with you on this
<ma10> jdong: screaming is problematic when not launching from terminal.. So we could conclude we should reject debian changes..
<ma10> btw is there any policy or guidelines about this stuff?
<jdong> ma10: generally we don't like deviating from Debian but I think in this case it is reasonable to do.
<jdong> ma10: for Azureus I'd recommend cooperating with upstream's wishes
<jdong> I know at one point when I took over they had some harsh words about Debian's Azureus packaging and (by prejudice) what I was going to do.
<jdong> I'm very interested in repairing that relationship
<ma10> jdong: I had the same impact when i tried talking to them.. however their wishes are to ship their version of swt and the other libs together with the package.. i don't know if we can come down do this :)
<jdong> ma10: no, that's not something we can do, unless they give very compelling and specific reasons why Azureus needs a special version of those libs in which case we might want to discuss bundling the SOURCE with the azureus build process
<jdong> ma10: I didn't listen too carefully (or understand too well) -- they tried to tell me something along those lines with SWT
<jdong> well actually I didn't want to hear it for emotional trauma reaasons
<jdong> I believe they mini-forked SWT to have API calls and such that THEY wanted :)
<ma10> that's bad.. i liked it better before this whole Vuze thing
<Sylphid> could someone verify that the eagle package is not broken in intrepid?..... when i try to run or reinstall eagle after upgrading from hardy it crashes my X server
<coppro> trying...
<coppro> it's an application I just run?
<coppro> hmm... works fine
<danbh_intrepid> Sylphid: it works for me, albeit, not that well, but it starts
<Sylphid> danbh_intrepid, when i click on file after it loads it crashes X
<Sylphid> hmm...
<danbh_intrepid> what file?
<Sylphid> the file menu
<Sylphid> hmm
<danbh_intrepid> its a bunch of ic diagrams
<Sylphid> hmm.... must just be my machine for some reason
<danbh_intrepid> heh, the pins are labeled, but where is the documentation of those pins?
<danbh_intrepid> Sylphid: try this command to install the somewhat default dependencies for your system!  sudo apt-get install (k|x)ubuntu-desktop^             and dont forget the ^
<Sylphid> lemme try purging and reinstalling
<Sylphid> hmm.. yea that did pick up a few extra libs
<Sylphid> ok all installed. .... trying again will be back if it crashes again
<Sylphid> nope still crashed X
<danbh_intrepid> what video driver are you using?
<Sylphid> radeon
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-30
<danbh_intrepid> Sylphid: Im using nvidia, so maybe thats why
<danbh_intrepid> but the graphics seem like basic qt or something, so its weird
<danbh_intrepid> anyway, Im off
<ajmitch> so should I leave that rc bugs tracker defaulting to intrepid for a few weeks yet?
<slangasek> seems advisable; nobody's going to be proactively merging specific fixes for jaunty for about that long
<slangasek> as opposed to "mass-import everything"
<ajmitch> I'll have to fix it up so that it displays the per-release info
<ScottK> intrepid-proposed is a valid upload target right now.
<ScottK> No reason to stop fixing major bugs.
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> the comments are currently per-bug, that may need to be changed to include the release affected as well
<ajmitch> I imagine it could still have useful data for hardy that isn't being shown at the moment
<Awsoonn> are there any blockers for tomarrow? Is the release still a go for the 31st?
<danbh_intrepid> Awsoonn: sorry mate, the release has been delayed by two days do to Mark Shuttleworth being held up in an airport by a snowstorm.  Then, the release was delayed yet another day because penguins began to gather, further blocking the runways.
<dholbach> good morning
<wgrant> Happy release day, dholbach.
<dholbach> hi wgrant :)
<iulian> :)
<iulian> Heya dholbach, wgrant.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<geser> Hi dholbach, wgrant, iulian
<dholbach> hi geser
<wgrant> Hey iulian, geser.
<iulian> Hello geser.
<highvolt1ge> urgh @ http://preview.ubunut.com/8.10
<highvolt1ge> I *hate* it when that happens
<ajmitch> wgrant: I'm going to change the rcbugs stuff to also store a release field for the bug comments, so that it can have separate comments for hardy, intrepid, jaunty
<ajmitch> any thoughts on that?
<verwilst> hi guys
<wgrant> ajmitch: Excellent idea.
 * ajmitch has it working per-distro on this side, just not on the display side
<wgrant> Given that I hope we'll be SRUing lots.
<ajmitch> yeah
<verwilst> TKIP isnt available for intrepid to connect to secured wireless networks
<ajmitch> and it's still useful for hardy SRUs
<wgrant> Hmm... UI-wise...
<verwilst> known issue?
<wgrant> verwilst: This isn't a support channel.
<verwilst> oh sorry
<verwilst> wrong channel :)
<wgrant> ajmitch: Perhaps we should have a separate page for each release?
<ajmitch> UI-wise, I'm not sure how to either avoid duplicating entering comments
<ajmitch> that was the plan
<verwilst> what is the next-version channel again plz?
<ajmitch> though it'd be nice to be able to copy a comment from jaunty to intrepid, it may not be needed
<verwilst> #ubuntu+1!
<ajmitch> you already saw that it has missing-fixes-rc.intrepid.txt, I just need to re-run it for other versions
<wgrant> Yep.
 * ajmitch thinks a simple ALTER TABLE should be all that's needed once a release field is in
<wgrant> ALTER TABLE + UPDATE
<wgrant> Unless you set the default to Intrepid, but that sounds wrong.
<ajmitch> I was undecided what to do with a blank string
<ajmitch> whether to show it on all releases, or just the latest
<wgrant> Disallow it.
<ajmitch> probably simpler that way, and fill in the release for any new comments
 * ajmitch tries to resist asking 'are we there yet?!?' in release-party
<txwikinger> Happy Ibex Day!
<ajmitch> ok, just need to do the UI part now
<ajmitch> mostly url mangling, I think
<wgrant> ajmitch: Excellent. Easy enough, particularly now the template is extracted.
<ajmitch> yes, thanks for that
<wgrant> Although the template needs refactoring from my hackish copy+paste just before release.
<ajmitch> fixing up a "My First Django Project"
<wgrant> Heh.
<wgrant> I recall my first Django attempts were utterly awful.
<ajmitch> which wasn't really meant to go live, but that's how they start
<wgrant> You can never write useful things thinking they'll not be used.
<ajmitch> quite true
<wgrant> Particularly when they're as useful as rcbugs.
<ajmitch> now to sort out the urls, I'd like http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ to point to the latest release, and http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/intrepid/ to point to a specific release
<ajmitch> while keeping all the addcomment, remove, etc in place
 * ajmitch tinkers
<wgrant> That sounds good.
<wgrant> addcomment will need some extra magic, but remove should be fine.
<wgrant> Except that remove's and demote's templates should mention the release.
<ajmitch> just looking at that now
<ajmitch> and some way of navigating between releases
<wgrant> That's easy enough.
<ajmitch> easy to put in, harder to look good
<ajmitch> as you can tell from my initial table layout, I don't do visual design :)
<wgrant> I'm pretty awful at it too, but I made it look a bit better and asked some friends for hints.
<ajmitch> it was appreciated
<wgrant> As was your much greater work in getting it going in the first place.
<ajmitch> it was something interesting to do at the time, I think it came out of a MOTU meeting quite awhile ago
<ajmitch> hm, trolls in release-party spreading misinformation
<StevenK> Like they have all afternoon?
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> this one was doing a fake announcement that servers had been compromised
<StevenK> Sigh.
<ajmitch> nothing imaginative, really
<wgrant> ajmitch: It inevitably gets worse. And quicker.
<ajmitch> oh I expect that
<ajmitch> especially as ZOMG its teh 31st! hits
<wgrant> Yes...
<wgrant> It is then that the power of ubuntu/member/* becomes useful.
<ajmitch> so what if it's the 31st in UTC+13...
<wgrant> Then it must be out!
<ajmitch> obviously
<ajmitch> there's even a few people alive in #ubuntu-nz tonight
<ajmitch> usually it's only alive during work hours :)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: morning =)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<ajmitch> hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> how's it going? I haven't seen you round much for awhile :)
<sistpoty|work> ajmitch: quite good, how about you?
<ajmitch> good also
<ajmitch> the usual with work :)
<sistpoty|work> heh
<quadrispro> hi
<quadrispro> verification done for bug 282146
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282146 in havp "chown: cannot access `/var/run/havp': No such file or directory " [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282146
<Laney> welcome mgdm!
<mgdm> 'lo :)
<Laney> methinks cdimage.u.c is being hammered
<marcin_ant_> hi
<pangloss> hi =)
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid: RELEASED. | See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 31st 04:00 UTC
<sistpoty|work> hm... anyone got a clue when/if intrepid-proposed will open up?
<sistpoty|work> (or is it already open?)
<slangasek> sistpoty|work: already open
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: oh, cool, thanks
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid: RELEASED. | Good time to work on fixing intrepid bugs via SRUs, See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 31st 04:00 UTC
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work
<huats> nxvl:  ping
<nxvl> huats: pong
<Laney> So, anyone want to review a package for Jaunty? ;)
<Laney> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=goocanvasmm
<nxvl_> huats: i have problem with my conection i didn't get anything after the ping
<huats> nxvl pv
<huats> :)
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<jdong> superm1: WHOOOOOOOO got it paired!
<jdong> superm1: had to unpair it from OS X first, then pair it with Ubuntu
<jdong> superm1: oddly even then there was a 50-50 between "pairing failed" and "enter PIN xxxx"
<superm1> jdong, "unpair"?
<superm1> i didnt know a function like that even existed
<jdong> superm1: tell OS X to forget the keyboard
<jdong> i.e. bluetooth app, remove remove remove.
<superm1> jdong, ah
<superm1> jdong, told you i was crazy, but these keyboards were worse than me~
<jdong> superm1: I have a feeling OS X touches the EFI or NVRAM in some way that Ubuntu doesn't know how
<jdong> superm1: I don't think it's normal for BT keyboards to work at the EFI level
<superm1> to set the hid proxy with them before it boots?
<jdong> yeah I'm pretty sure it does
<superm1> Dell added functionality like that in the last year too
<jdong> resetting the PRAM requires reassociating both the keyboard and mouse on next OS X  boot.
<jdong> that's probably something I should've tested too!
<jdong> but at any rate I'm just glad to get this working
<superm1> Broadcom chips have support for it
<jdong> no more while true; sleep 20; hidd --connect .... :D
<superm1> oh gosh what a hack
<jdong> superm1: how else do you get hidd to reocnnect to lost devices :-/
<jdong> I felt so dirty for that hack
<superm1> one month from now i'm going to go on the forums with a blowtorch, and if i see people on intrepid using hidd still, i'm not going to be happy
<jdong> superm1: yeah, though this was a HUGE pain to set up
<jdong> what has it been... roughly a week since we last talked? :)
<superm1> jdong, well do the world a favor and make a blog post about it
<superm1> or at least document it somewhere people will find it
<jdong> superm1: yeah, will do
<jdong> superm1: first I'm gonna try to use this keyboard with OS X again to make sure nothing died.
<jdong> slightly ungood news: needed a new PIN to pair with OS X
<jdong> now trying Ubuntu again....
<jdong> *cringe*
<jdong> and we're good!
<jdong> muahaha
<jdong> yay swsusp
<iulian> Hello and happy release day!
<directhex> "merry releasemas"
<iulian> Heh, right.
<iulian> That sounds better.
<nxvl> slangasek: so we are at the point that we can only write SRU's and wait for jaunty to open?
<jdong> superm1: is it just me or did the intrepid-security kernel lose fn keys on the keyboard?
<sebner> nxvl: yep. another 1-2 weeks until jaunty :(
<nxvl> boring time
<nxvl> \o/
<sebner> nxvl: yep, nothing to break ,.. ^ ^
<jdong> superm1: it definitely seems like in BlueZ input mode I lose my fn keys
<superm1> jdong, intrepid-security kernel? wha..
<jdong> 00:1F:5B:B1:C3:B7 jdongâs mouse [0000:0000] connected
<jdong> 00:1E:52:FC:A8:B4 jdongâs keyboard [0000:0000] connected
<superm1> lets see the diff on it
<jdong> could that be the culprit?
<jdong> when hidd connects, there are usb IDs in those fields
<jdong> but when BlueZ does it, those seem to all be zeroes
<jdong> the fn key doesn't do anything special anymore
<superm1> okay one sec, there's something you need to check
<jdong> i.e. no access to volume keys, pgup/pgdn
<jdong> pb_fnmode?
<superm1> not that, unless youve change dit
<jdong> not that I can tell
<Laney> nxvl: You can always do REVUing if you're bored.................. ;)
<superm1> jdong, there is somewhere else that you query the vid/pid of bt devices
<superm1> once you're in userspace
<superm1> i wonder if yours is needing an extra quirk
<superm1> that 0000:0000 in the log is not what userspace will see
<jdong> hmm
<superm1> i can't remember how I got it before.  hcitool info doesn't seem to be the trick
<nxvl> Laney: and where do i upload them?
<nxvl> :P
<Laney> nxvl: Then you'll have something to upload as soon as Jaunty opens
<Laney> :P
<Laney> (not that I want you to look at my package, oh no...)
<nxvl> yeap
<iulian> Oh and by the way. Can non-MOTUs review/comment on packges from REVU?
<Laney> Of course, they just can't ack
<iulian> Sure, cool.
 * iulian is going to review some packages tonight.
 * iulian -> supper.
<jdong> superm1: bug 227501
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227501 in linux "id of apple aluminum wireless keyboard changed??" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227501
<jdong> superm1: looks like 0x22{c,d,e} are all valid?
<superm1> oh wonderful
<superm1> jdong, okay well feeling like testing a patch then?
<superm1> i'll point you where needs patching
<jdong> I wonder if that explains it though
<superm1> well if you can find your id somehow we can see
<superm1> there are two bugs going on here; all the quirks from the hid system don't carry over
<superm1> so i've got a single quirk for what i thought was the valid id, but if there are more my single quirk doesnt handle it
<jdong> MODALIAS=input:b0005v0000p0000e0000-e0
<jdong> it seems like sys/class/input doesn't see the vendor ID either?/
<jdong> is that normal
<superm1> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-intrepid.git;a=blob;f=net/bluetooth/hidp/core.c;h=fc6e64335a38d52edbcbc86dd6dbd07b6973af8f;hb=c25072126a591fec9481197aab361469661c050e
<superm1> try adding your id to that once you find your pid/vid
<superm1> or even better; track down the bug why the hid quirks don't apply here :)
<superm1> jdong, /sys/class/bluetooth/hci0:46/input34/id gives me valid info for vendor and product
<superm1> should be similar for you
<jdong> superm1: 0000:0000
<jdong> eep.
<superm1> jdong, well that's really really bzr
<jdong> should I dare to try a re-pair? :)
<jdong> nothing a good old rm -rf /var/lib/bluetooth won't fix ;-)
<superm1> did you steal a prototype or something?
<jdong> superm1: hey! hidd shows em just fine!
 * directhex still thinks the ps3 bluetooth remote needs some magic
<superm1> jdong, the other thing that needs to be figured out yet, input device names change every time the keyboard or mouse go in low power mode
<superm1> currently my keyboard is this: [1705501.858886] input: Apple Wireless Keyboard as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.2/usb3/3-1/3-1:1.0/hci0/acl001B63FC4288/input/input2164
<Adri2000> ScottK: I don't understand your comment in bug #284755
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284755 in wxwidgets2.8 "Filezilla and the New Human Theme" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284755
<jdong> superm1: [ 1620.721147] input: jdongâs keyboard as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1a.0/usb1/1-1/1-1.1/1-1.1:1.0/bluetooth/hci0/hci0:11/input16
<superm1> yeah yours is already jumping.  wait a week or two (provided your macbook suspends stably and you dont shutdown), you'll get to the hundreds quick
<jdong> superm1: *cringe* blacklist 0000:0000
<jdong> look away!
<superm1> oh gosh
<superm1> you and your hacks
<superm1> dont want to find the root cause, so put bandages on it
<jdong> superm1: I want my fn keys first, then I'll see why session->input and session->hid are both unset
<\sh> damn, this "put mc on the cd" thread is really annoying
<Laney> jdong: Have you installed on a macbook?
<jdong> Laney: macbook and iMac
<Laney> jdong: Awesome, I'm just doing it now. Is there any problem with creating a swap partition? The wiki page is making me nervous about doing so
<jdong> Laney: no problems at all
<Laney> \o
<jdong> superm1: what does the blue (i) thing mean in bluetooth-applet
<superm1> jdong, depends on your theme if it's a blue (i), but it means trusted device
<superm1> that bluez won't ask you if it can use the device
<jdong> oh
<Laney> untu-motu]
<Laney> excuse that
<laga> no.
<jdong> superm1: does "did" in /var/lib/bt store the device ID?
<superm1> does did?
<superm1> oh did the file
<jdong> yeah seems like it
<superm1> yeah it does
<jdong> comes back as 00:1F:5B:B1:C3:B7 FFFF 0000 0000 0000
<jdong> superm1: which fields are supposed to be the device IDs?
<jdong> (another ugly hack coming)
<superm1> 00:1B:63:FA:CD:5A 0002 05AC 022C 0136
<superm1> second and third
<jdong> holy crap that worked.
<jdong> wow.
<jdong> 00:1E:52:FC:A8:B4 FFFF 05AC 022C 0000
 * jdong whistles innocently
<superm1> lol
<jdong> lol
<jdong> probably not the right way to set device ID ;-)
<Laney> Anyone know how to list all packages Changed-By a particular person?
<DktrKranz> Laney, {python,perl,whathever} regex?
<ScottK> Adri2000: IIRC DktrKranz said that upload was good.  I may remember wrong.
<sevenseeker> start-stop-daemon is yielding 'Exec format error' when I run it, however I can run the executable manually with the same arguments.  Verbose is not revealing anything more.  Where should I start looking for trouble?
<Adri2000> ScottK: ok
<directhex> woo @ commercial games running fine in compiz
<laga> jono: hey, we're gonna do an install party at my school next week. are there any special resources? the wiki doesn't list anything useful when i search for "install party", so i'm wondering if there is a special term
<jono> lacqui, what do you mean by "special resources"?
<laga> jono: i'm just looking for ideas.
<jono> ahhh
<laga> and maybe checklists. stuff like backups etc.
<jono> I recommend asking for help in #ubuntu-locoteams
<laga> ah, thanks.
<gouki> Guys ... My mentor told me to check merges.ubuntu.com and "find some merges to work on, submit a bug along with a patch'.
<gouki> I was wondering if someone could explain what exactly is merges.ubuntu.com.
<azeem> when was that?
<azeem> I don't think intrepid+1 is open for merging yet
<Hobbsee> many months ago, hopefully
<Hobbsee> azeem: i'm damn sure it sin't...
<gouki> No, it was actually ~5 hours ago.
<nhandler> gouki: Well, the jaunty repos won't open for about a week
<nhandler> You can't really do merges until then
<Hobbsee> gouki: who was your sponsor?
<gouki> :S
<Hobbsee> s/was/is/ ; s/sponsor/mentor/
<Hobbsee> (might be good to educate them a little)
<gouki> Hobbsee, it was Nicolas (nxvl).
<Hobbsee> hmm, i thought he should know better.
<gouki> So ... I shouldn't worry about practice that part now. OK.
<nhandler> Hobbsee: He probably wanted gouki to wait until the jaunty repos open
<Hobbsee> nhandler: possibly, but there's a toolchain, etc, to be built first too.
<gouki> My bad people!
<gouki> <nxvl> we will need to wait for jaunty to open, which will be in 1 or 2 weeks
<gouki> I just skipped that part. I'm sorry.
<Hobbsee> ahh
<nhandler> That is ok gouki.
<Hobbsee> gouki: you'll see mails going around about jaunty being open for general uploads in a couple of weeks.
<gouki> So, until Jaunty is open there isn't anything to practice on?
<Hobbsee> gouki: after that...go for your life (well, ish)
<Hobbsee> gouki: well,you can probably do something like new packages, but they might not build with the new release, with all those new packages.
<Hobbsee> well, updated packages
<Hobbsee> most people take a bit of a holiday
<gouki> Yeah, deserved ones :)
<Hobbsee> i presume there's also ubuntu developer week stuff to do, too
<gouki> I might have picked the wrong time to start too :)
<gouki> BTW ... What exactly is merges.ubuntu.com?
<coppro> gouki: it says exactly what it is on the site
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-31
<jdong> superm1: do you have a mighty mouse too?
<jdong> superm1: the invert_hwheel quirk for the MM actually makes my wheel inverted.
<jdong> I'm sure that's not what it's supposed to do
<superm1> jdong, yeah i have a mighty mouse
<superm1> which way is inverted?
<superm1> i've never known anything but what it is setup
 * nixternal leaves the jokes alone
<superm1> jdong, up scrolls up and down scrolls down
<jdong> superm1: horizontal scrolling, left is right and right is left
<jdong> superm1: unless I set the vendor ID to 0000
<nixternal> no, up is left, and right is down
<superm1> oh i've never horizontal scrolled
<jdong> superm1: yeah the inverted scroll quirk is wrong IMO
<superm1> jdong, my scroll left and right dont work
<superm1> but i'm on hardy here...
<jdong> hmm work fine for me in Intrepid
<jdong> just with correct vendor ID the direction is inverted
<jdong> because... there's a quirk that inverts it
<superm1> jdong, that quirk sounds ridiculous
<superm1> jdong, WHY would anyone ever want such a thing?
<jdong> superm1: I believe the committer thought the scrollwheel was inverted in hardware
<jdong> superm1: but on my MM with the same vendor/product ID that is clearly not the case
<jdong> and I find it hard to believe that it would be the case
<superm1> jdong, yeah mine neither
<jdong> the commit message seems to state that it was word-of-mouth
<superm1> well i dont know if i want to upgrade to intrepid on this laptop even
<superm1> so i might never find out
<jdong> gonna file a bug.
<superm1> well you might as well write the patch and submit it too
<superm1> obscure hardware bugs dont get touched often...
<superm1> case in point; intrepid would have released with the fn key completely non functional for BT keyboards if i didn't poke it two weeks before
<superm1> (apple bt keyboards that is)
 * wgrant wonders why on earth one would buy an Apple laptop just to run Ubuntu on it.
<ajmitch> for the shiny logo
<wgrant> ajmitch: Ah, good point.
<Burgundavia> wgrant: becausethey are very pretty laptops
<wgrant> Burgundavia: I guess prettiness wins over utility...
<Burgundavia> wgrant: apples entire existence is down to people willing to buy pretty over utility
<wgrant> How depressing.
<StevenK> I don't think they're pretty
<wgrant> StevenK: But but but... they have an Apple on them!
<StevenK> And?
<wgrant> I don't know. That's all I can think of.
<StevenK> The brushed aluminum look doesn't do it for me at all
<StevenK> And the iBooks looked like toilet seat covers
<wgrant> Haha.
<dholbach> good morning
<wgrant> Evening dholbach.
<dholbach> hi wgrant
<didrocks> morning :)
<dholbach> hi didrocks
<didrocks> Hi dholbach !
<woody86> would there be any difference in my mentorship if I use Gnome or KDE?
<iulian> woody86: I don't think it would.
<woody86> iulian -  I was chatting with my mentor while I was test-installing Kubuntu on my desktop, and he said "wait! you're a KDE guy? Not a Gnome guy??"
<woody86> and I didn't know if what I'd be learning in my mentorship would matter based on what DE I use, or if he was just giving me a little guff since he's a Gnome guy?
<iulian> woody86: Well, I'm not sure, in the end we all use the same tools.
<woody86> iulian- ok, thanks :) I'll double-check with him, but I figured I'd ask here first since he's not online right now
<iulian> Ah
<huats> morning !
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sebner> sistpoty|work: ahoi =)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid: RELEASED. | Good time to work on fixing intrepid bugs via SRUs, See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, November 14th 12:00 UTC
<xerxas> Hi all
<xerxas> is there an easy way of doing a .deb from a python egg ?
<POX> no, but there's an easy way to create a .deb from .tar - http://stdeb.python-hosting.com/
<xerxas> ok , thx !
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work
<ScottK> I'd appreciate it if someone with Gnome would try to replicate Bug 291476
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 291476 in clamtk "Clamtk scans bookmarks " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291476
<ScottK> I don't think it's a clamtk bug in any case.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: could you please subscribe me to it? I will try to test it when I come back home.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Sure.  What's your LP ID?
<DktrKranz> dktrkranz
<ScottK> Thanks
<DktrKranz> oh... jaunty's first package! \o/
<laga> are the archives open already?
<DktrKranz> not yet for normal uploading
<DktrKranz> toolchain time now
<laga> yay
<pochu> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/jaunty-changes/2008-October/000000.html
 * pochu subscribes to the list
<DktrKranz> feisty-changes can go now
 * ScottK had the next to last security upload for Feisty.
<luckyone> hello motu
<luckyone> I am reading the "Will Canonical's Servers stay alive the 30th of October" thread because I searched for 'apt-torrent'
<luckyone> what is the reason we don't use apt-torrent for package distribution? On release day bandwidth would be *much* less a problem I would think
<luckyone> especially if the frontend for it helped people see how much ubuntu they had help spread!
<luckyone> I would seed the crap out of it
<slytherin> Koon: ping
<Koon> slytherin: pong
<slytherin> Koon: persia asked me to talk with you about openweek. Are you planning any session?
<Koon> slytherin: I'll be away next week with lots of uncertainties so I preferred not committing on running a session
<Koon> (or is it "committing to"...)
<Koon> slytherin: did you receive my answer ?
<slytherin> Koon: No. My laptop froze. I am still trying to find root cause of the problem. :-(
<Koon> slytherin: I'll be away next week with lots of uncertainties so I preferred not committing on running a session
<slytherin> ok
<amikrop_> Hello. Audacious 1.5.1 has a very serious bug, not playing the music file the user double clicked on, but playing an old playlist. This bug has been fixed in next versions of Audacious, so I really believe, you should package an update after 1.5.1, as soon as possible.
<laga> amikrop_: please file  a bug report
<james_w> hi amikrop_, is there a bug in launchpad on this?
<marcin_ant> hi all
<marcin_ant> I would like to ask if is there any kind of software that can generate debian packages automatically from set of upstream tarballs? (something like dh_make but with gui etc.)
<amikrop_> james_w: I don't think so.
<amikrop_> laga: I will.
<jdong> marcin_ant: there is not
<jdong> marcin_ant: a few developers I recall at one point were working on a project that would do something similar to that
<jdong> marcin_ant: personally I feel that the level of work and forethought that is required in packaging something well is probably beyond the abilities of automated heuristics
<jdong> or at least moderately challenging to implement
<marcin_ant> jdong: sure if you think about 'rules' it's pretty hard to automate this
<joaopinto> marcin_ant, there is, debcreator, and another one which i don't remember the name
<joaopinto> marcin_ant, debian package maker
<dx9s_work> How do I figure out the maintainer(s) for mtp-tools,  ' https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+package/mtp-tools ' does tell much -- and would like to forward some information from Tim Norman (Pocket Tunes founder/developer) on a change to the included libmtp.rules for udev
<jdong> dx9s_work: Ubuntu doesn't have "maintainers" in the Debian sense
<jdong> dx9s_work: usually, either try contacting the last few people mentioned in the changelog, the ubuntu-motu list, or file a launchpad bug
<dx9s_work> jdong, I'll try but I don't promise anything / also need to see if Intrepid (have machine at home) possibly already has some changes.
<jdong> dx9s_work: alright, cool. thanks.
<gouki> How does one know which section a package belongs to? Also, are there any guidelines for the priority field?
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<amikrop> Hello. After upgrade to Intrepid, I don't have sound for Youtube videos.
<amikrop> Maybe it is an issue with the flash.
<amikrop> Actually, I can remember I disconnected from the Internet after the downloads of the new packages for the upgrade, were finished.
<amikrop> And when it started installing these packages, the flash plugin needed an Internet connection, which it didn't have.
<amikrop> And it said it failed to install.
<amikrop> There is a very serious bug in 8.10: I don't have sound in Flash videos, and Skype cannot produce sounds, I cannot call, and it says audio playback problem.
<amikrop> I don't know, is it about pulseaudio or something?
<amikrop> It is very very irritating, I can say.
<amikrop> Unacceptable :S
<amikrop> No OS can be called serious, if it has such major bugs :(
<directhex> amikrop, this isn't a support channel, it's a developer channel
<amikrop> directhex: Excuse me?
<amikrop> directhex: I am talking you about something extraordinarily bad, and your only answer is "this is not the right place"?
<amikrop> I was waiting for a more responsible answer, sir.
<directhex> amikrop, it works for other people. you make it sound like the norm, rather than an exception
<amikrop> directhex: Well, it does not work for me.
<amikrop> Should I be completely upset, or that would make me mean?
<superm1> amikrop, this channel is intended for developer discussions of packaging.  finding support for problems, you'll find better luck in #ubuntu or a similar support channel
<directhex> you obviously already are. but you're asking for user support with a broken configuration, in (as you say) the wrong place
<amikrop> superm1: you can't discuss in #ubuntu there are over 1000 persons there, which makes it impossible to say a thing and someone actually hear you
<jdong> going into the wrong channel with the wrong attitude is not going to get you anywhere productive.
<jdong> just because another channel is busy doesn't give you the right to interrupt developers in a development-only channel
<amikrop> directhex: broken configuration? who broke it?
<jdong> (1) tell skype to switch to pulseaudio already
<amikrop> I just upgraded, and things stopped working
<jdong> (2) tell Adobe the same.
<amikrop> jdong: well, how about telling Ubuntu *not* to use pulseaudio, until big vendors like Adobe and Skype actually support it?
<jdong> amikrop: then go tell Fedora, RedHat, OpenSuse, and others the same.
<jdong> let's all wait until the industry's slowest proprietary vendors catch up!
<directhex> there's no 64 bit flash, ban 64-bit distros!
<directhex> (there's a 64-bit moonlight available if you like though ;))
<amikrop> Well, if yoy don't, users get screwed up.
<jdong> flash works here.
<jdong> how did you install it?
<directhex> and here. and at work on 3 machines
<amikrop> jdong: ubuntu-restricted-extras
<jdong> any unusual changes to your sound setup?
<amikrop> no
<amikrop> So? What's wrong?
<jdong> no idea
<directhex> good question. would require lots of diagnostics, which after the day i've had, i'm less than 0% inclined to do
<jdong> and I wish I knew what I was talking about when it came to the Linux sound architecture
<directhex> development i could stomach this evening. user support, no. if only there was a development channel i could join
<amikrop> Well, I keep telling friends, all the time, how good is Ubuntu, and use it, and help them with installations. And I do this because I like Ubuntu myself, and really feel like doing so. But such situations not only disappoint me, but expose me to my friemds, who are (practically) complaining to me, who proposed them the OS they use now. :-(
<jdong> sorry to hear that but that's no excuse to disrupt a development channel
<jdong> there are plenty of support options for resolving this -- forums, launchpad answers, mailing lists, IRC
<jdong> please do it in an appropriate medium so developers can continue to do their jobs
<amikrop> whatever :(
<amikrop> I just think developers should fix bugs like this.
<directhex> and won't help. because you haven't provided anything of worth to a developer, such as diagnostic output
<amikrop> Anyway, thank you, and have a nice day.
<csilk> facepalm, some guy made a package for an app I'm in the process of packaging claiming that I am to slow, upon looking at the package it has no dependencies listed in the control file, no copyright information, blank changelog and his package contains a shelll script he wront to make compilation easier?
<csilk> *wrote
<directhex> csilk, sounds normal to me
<csilk> Possibly the worst attempt ever at hi-jacking  a package
<jdong> csilk: at least he hasn't uploaded it to a repository yet and told everyone to install it
<directhex> csilk, don't look at the mono 2.0 package on someone's ppa
<csilk> haha
<directhex> jdong, ding!
<jdong> and ignore official packages because they interfere with them.
<directhex> jono, package version "2.0"
<directhex> :)
<jdong> directhex: I feel your pain :)
<csilk> I guess I'll just /ignore this guys pm's and let him upload it to revu as he plans
<jdong> directhex: I was told I "royally screwed up" a Firefox package and the proposed fixed version was a deb postint wrapped arch build script.
<csilk> apparently my critque is based on jelousy that he finished the package first.........
<directhex> also, am i the only one who gets pissed at divas with an entitlement complex?
<jdong> csilk: lol, please let him just upload to revu :)
<csilk> sure thing
<csilk> he thinks because it works on his system it will work "on everyones"
<jdong> "working" is such a low standard to set :)
 * jdong resists observation about US workforce
<csilk> lol
<directhex> really, that amikrop guy needs to get with the bloody program. if it doesn't work, don't invade a dev channel and act like a prissy customer who's been wronged
<directhex> when he's paying me consultancy, he gets grace & fast action
<jdong> agreed. getting cranky in the wrong place is not going to get anything resolved.
<jdong> and apparently we're just sitting around with a fix command refusing to run it on flash and skype.
<csilk> oh dear, that jdong is so lazy, why won't he just rin the fix command damn it
<csilk> *run
<directhex> pdoesn't flash use pulse now? what was that "no more flashsupport" stuff?
<csilk> anybody got an opinion on using "checkinstall" for making packages?
<csilk> note: I don't use it myself
<NCommander> ScottK, you live?
<csilk> NCommander, any opinion on my above comment?
<NCommander> csilk, its a horrible horrible horrible hack, and whoever is using it to make packages should be smacked and then shown the packaging manual
<NCommander> I need someone running Hardy, and has backports enabled
<NCommander> any takers?
<laga> let me look
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/282361 - laga can you see if transmission-gtk is installable if you have hardy-backports enabled?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282361 in hardy-backports "Please backport Transmission 1.34 to Hardy " [High,Incomplete]
<csilk> NCommander, that was very similar to what I said, I was looking for confirmation from someone more experienced than myself, thank you
<laga> no, backports is disabled
<NCommander> bah
 * NCommander needs someone w/ backports enabled
<laga> :(
<directhex> hold on
<directhex> NCommander, it's installed already. want me to purge & reinstall?
<NCommander> directhex, transmisison-gtk?
<NCommander> (from backports?)
<directhex>  *** 1.22-1ubuntu1~hardy1 0
<directhex>         500 http://mirror.ox.ac.uk hardy-backports/main Packages
<directhex>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<NCommander> Yeah, try purging and reinstalling
<NCommander> We don't have a backport of libpango, so I'm not understanding how this is going boom
<directhex> Setting up transmission-gtk (1.22-1ubuntu1~hardy1) ...
<directhex> it libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.20.0)
<directhex> whereas hardy has 1.20.1 and hardu-updates has 1.20.5
<NCommander> d'oh
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> SO thats a failure on my part
<directhex> i.e. no problem
<NCommander> directhex, mind marking that on that bug for me?
<NCommander> actually
<NCommander> I'll do it
<directhex> busy watching zombies eat the big brother house
<NCommander> lol
<directhex> and now i'm done
 * NCommander provides a transmission backport
<directhex> NCommander, how about mono? it doesn't break anything that i've noticed :) :p
<nixternal> where are my regex and bash junkies? this is killing me
<nixternal> TYPE='ss1k'
<nixternal> if [[ $TYPE =~ ^ss[0-9]k ]]
<nixternal> this does not work no matter how I try it
<ScottK> NCommander: I do (AFAIK)
<nixternal> foo.sh: 8: [[: not found
 * nixternal jumps out the window
<NCommander> ScottK, well, living is an all important thing :-)
 * NCommander watches nixternal go splat on the pavement
<ScottK> Some days it's over-rated.
 * ScottK is glad he doesn't have the job of cleaning that up.
<NCommander> ScottK, I have a backport that Needs Upload
<ScottK> Bug?
<ScottK> It better not be another Transmission backport because that one was a PITA.
<NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/282361
<NCommander> ScottK, err
<NCommander> too late
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282361 in hardy-backports "Please backport Transmission 1.34 to Hardy " [Wishlist,Triaged]
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> At least you did it this time.
 * NCommander already did the backport and the testing ;-)
<ScottK> NCommander: Please mark in the bug about how wonderfully you've tested this.
 * NCommander downloads a torrent just to make sure nothing is actually broken
<ScottK> NCommander: Also I need a better rationale than 'fixes bugs'.  If it just fixes bugs it ought to be cherry picked for SRU.
<NCommander> ScottK, hold on
<ScottK> NCommander: Were you aware there's a pending SRU for that version?
<NCommander> ScottK, no, but the version in Hardy is very old, there are feature changes
<ScottK> NCommander: Sure.  Document those in the bug (edit it), but I want to wait until the SRU is in -updates and backport that.
<NCommander> ScottK, ok, well, the debdiff shoud apply cleanly from the -updates version except for the changelog info
<NCommander> and ...
<NCommander> *deletes and recreates the debdiff*
<NCommander> Its been too long since I touched backports; I forgot the freaking bug number
<NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/275573 - DOH!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275573 in bzr-svn "Please consider rebuiling the package for hardy-backports" [Undecided,Invalid]
<ScottK> NCommander: For 275573, how about you just test bzr from Intrepid and we backport that?
 * NCommander looks at Bazaar's rdepends
<NCommander> ScottK, there are enough bazaar rdepends that I would be a little nervous about doing the backport without a hell of a lot of regression testing
<NCommander> We're still recovering from the last SCM backport we attempted
<ScottK> NCommander: Fair enough.
 * ScottK will deal with it then.
<NCommander> I think if we broke both Bazaar and SVN within the timespan of a month, people will riot :-)
<ScottK> NCommander: It's backports.  It's known crack.  People who expect it to actually work consistently should be educated otherwise.
<NCommander> The problem with users is you can't uninstall stupid.
 * NCommander notes we should probably have some sorta big warning box when you try and enable the backports repo on Hardy.
<ScottK> NCommander: Did you read the warning in sources.list that's already there?
<NCommander> Its not displayed if you enable it via software sources
<james_w> I was going to request a backport of bzr at some point, but I'll do that once I've picked the version and looked at how much needs to be included, and done some testing
<cody-somerville> I think we should remove it from software sources if it is that much of a problem
<cody-somerville> I mean, the backporters actively ignore people who say "hey, this is breaking my system" and upload proposed backports anyhow
<cody-somerville> Maybe we need to reconsider the "official" part of the ubuntu backports.
 * NCommander always thought Backports were unoffical and unsupported
<NCommander> Did I miss a memo to the contrary?
<NCommander> ^- cody-somerville
<NCommander> or ScottK actually
<cody-somerville> The wiki page says "The chances for regression is very low" blah blah blah
<cody-somerville> Obviously there is a disconnect somewhere.
<NCommander> Thats the theory
<ScottK> cody-somerville: We actually have very few regressions.
<ScottK> And we fix them when we do.
<NCommander> Considering the number of backports we do
<NCommander> The problem is every once in awhile, we backport something and it breaks in unexpected way (SVN being the problem this case around)
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Backports is blessed by the tech board.  If  you think they should be stopped, take it up with them.
<cody-somerville> I would if I cared enough.
<ScottK> Dad to 5 year old: "We have to restart the computer."
<ScottK> 5 year old: "Why?"
<ScottK> Dad to 5 year old: "Because I just updated the kernel and each time you update the kernel, the computer has to be restarted to use the new kernel."
<ScottK> 5 year old: "Oh."
<joaopinto> found a crashing bug with webkit :\
<ScottK> NCommander: Since bzr-svn doesn't actually depend on svn and isn't built against it, how does rebuilding help?
<compengi> why does debian and ubuntu change the default package configure
<compengi> files and folders
<compengi> isn't better to get used to universal package defaults?
<sebner> compengi: can you be more specific?
<compengi> for example 1 of the packages that is completely different and changed is apache2
<compengi> the default configuration files and directories aren't the same as in the source package
<compengi> the default package files in source package is in /etc/httpd/httpd.conf and the root directory is in /srv/http/
<sebner> compengi: I suppose /srv was changed to /var?
<sebner> compengi: ubuntu doesn't have a /srv (like suse). webservices run here in /var
<compengi> true, that's the first difference and configuration files?
<compengi> i'm not asking about a specific package, it's interesting to know why some packages' directories are changed (configuration one's at least)
<compengi> and it also sometimes happens that in those package support channels you will be asked to refer in your distro's support channel (ubuntu in this chase) when you use the default, you can ask any question there
<sebner> compengi: well, true but in the apache case. ubuntu doesn't have /srv ...
<compengi> sebner, apache was only an example as you've asked to be more specific :)
<sebner> compengi: be sure that the changes aren't made just for fun (most times) ^^
<compengi> sebner, ermm.. i don't have any problem with reading and using any distor's defaults. i'm totally okay with it. i don't have either a question regarding any package setup. but it's an interesting cause to know why it's like this
<compengi> i idle in ubuntu support channel and sometimes a user asks some specific advanced package setup questions, when you'd ask him to refer to there support channel, he'd sometimes reply, they had just refered me to here
<slangasek> -
<ScottK> compengi: Generally these differences are because we try to follow FHS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
<compengi> ScottK, although accourding to FHS /var/ Variable files, such as logs, spool files, and temporary e-mail files. and /srv/ Site-specific data which is served by the system.
<compengi> which doesn't mean you are following FHS
<compengi> ScottK, http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#SRVDATAFORSERVICESPROVIDEDBYSYSTEM
<compengi> Therefore, no program should rely on a specific subdirectory structure of /srv existing or data necessarily being stored in /srv. However /srv should always exist on FHS compliant systems and should be used as the default location for such data.
 * sistpoty considers pointing MOTUs to SRUs while jaunty is still frozen: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/65442/
<sistpoty> any comments?
 * jdong agrees with the motion
<sistpoty> refined at http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/65443/, to also point to REVU
<sistpoty> though I'm not 100% sure what should be the top thing to work on right now
<sistpoty> refined again: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/65447/
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-01
<directhex> sistpoty, can i suggest people offer to help with lenny RC bugs? nothing's gonna impact jaunty development more than a stagnant debian
<emgent> hello
<sistpoty> directhex: I won't hinder you to do so ;)
<directhex> sistpoty, i meant as part of your mail, but i guess i'm a bit late
<directhex> anyway, bedtime pour moi
<sistpoty> directhex: sorry, mail already sent
 * sistpoty also goes to bed... gn8 everyone
<yowwww> anyone help with the libGL.so.1 cannot be overwritten nvidia issue? 32 bit system
<gouki> What's the variable for packager name? It keeps using the username, instead of my full name.
<Elbrus> gouki: set DEBFULLNAME=<FULL NAME> in the environment
<gouki> Elbrus, thank you very much!
<Elbrus> gouki: you might also want to set DEBEMAIL and DEBSIGN_KEYID
<gouki> Very helpful indeed Elbrus. Both set. Thank you.
<Elbrus> your welcome
<Elbrus> s/your/you're
<ScottK> Wahoo.  Launchpad.  Now improved with even mor slowness.
<ScottK> mor/more
<gouki> Heheh
<ScottK> Would someone please hunt down shirish (see -devel-discuss) and explain how ridiculous it is to put a license statement in every email you send.
<ScottK> Please before I find myself violating the CoC.
<Milyardo> :)
<Milyardo> I thought that too when I read his email
<ScottK> I really should just killfile him.
 * StevenK stops reading -devel-discuss before he gets more depressed by shirish
 * ScottK adds a new rule to his Kmail.
 * StevenK finds himself a little disappointed the startup sound didn't change for intrepid
 * ScottK finds himself disappointed he can't find his car keys.
<Milyardo> Did anyone else besides me respond to Mark Ellse?
<jdong> why did shirish reply to himself and just quote his entire message?
<jdong> is that like thread bumping in mailing list world?
<wgrant> jdong: I was wondering that, then realised it was shirish.
<jdong> wgrant: heh 10 hour 37 minutes in between too. That's no accidental double-click on send.
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> Hmm.
<wgrant> ~20% of the failed builds from Intrepid that have so far been retried in Jaunty have built fine.
<wgrant> Unfortunate that we didn't have a mass give-back near the end of Intrepid.
<superm1> jdong, did your /var/lib/bluetooth transition over from hardy to intrepid?
<superm1> jdong, i'm doing the upgrade right now, and didn't even consider that scenario - what happens...
<jdong> superm1: I never tried it with hardy
<jdong> superm1: I started fresh at Intrepid, it should be fine
<jdong> the format looks identical to me
<superm1> jdong, well i figure for most people it's not a big deal if it doesn't, but i *really* dont want to repair my keyboard :)
<jdong> superm1: haha, repair is the right word :D
<superm1> jdong, funny how re-pair and repair are both applicable here.  that and i dont even remember if the mouse was trouble too pairing
<jdong> superm1: the mouse is bliss
<jdong> no trouble at all
<jdong> but the keyboard.... I sure hope for your sake there's no repair involved!
<Hobbsee> ScottK: shirish is usually variable in his level of cluelessness.  I'll hunt him down again (i've had reasonable success the last few times i've done it)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Depends on how you define success.  He's still breathing.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: well, defining success in most other ways would be violating the code of conduct.
<ScottK> wgrant: hppa?
<Hobbsee> besides, he does get more clueful / less objectionable occasionally.
<ScottK> It got a fixed libc and gcc very near the end.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: If you say so.  He invited someone to join him on linked-in via debian-devel ML earlier this week.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ouch.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: okay, so make that *very* occasionally.
<ScottK> He's the only person I still remember individually who was on my list of reasons why I gave up user ML.
<wgrant> ScottK: And  lpia and powerpc...
<ScottK> OK.  Well I'm not suprised at all about hppa.
<ScottK> Through much of the later part of the dev cycle there were enough hppa FTBFS that the hppa buildd's actually kept up.
<wgrant> Yeah...
<Hobbsee> urgh, why am i browsing u-d-d now?
<Hobbsee> man...there's madness on this list
<Hobbsee> and surprisingly, i'ts not from shirish.
<ScottK> Yeah.  I'm considering giving it up.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Which madness in particular?
<Hobbsee> i gave it up long ago, i'm just looking at the archives.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: Vincenzo Ciancia seems to be the main offender.  At this point, the "Deleting an alpha iso for the safety of users hardware" thread
<wgrant> But the lack of Midnight Commander is what is holding Ubuntu back from taking over the desktop!
<superm1> jdong, nope, they both look to have tried hard, but didn't come through :(
<ScottK> Ah.  I remember that.
<jdong> superm1: that's what she s... I mean.. err... did you back up /var/lib/bluetooth?
<ScottK> wgrant: Oddly enough my welcoming call to do the actual work involved in getting it on the CD seems to have ended that thread.
<wgrant> ScottK: I noticed...
<superm1> jdong, yeah, but not gonna do a lot of good at this point
<Hobbsee> wgrant: and the lack of inverse searches for dvi in ubuntu...which apparently uses kde now.
<superm1> i'll play the repairing game i guess :(
<jdong> superm1: ouch.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: that's normal.
<jdong> superm1: remember that after pairing you need to edit did separately to inject the right id :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you mean the devs won't just drop everyhing to fix what users want, OMGNOW?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I actually fixed that one.  I did some Googling and found a real constituency for it.
<Hobbsee> i saw that.   and apparently ubuntu's (which doesn't use kdvi) is much better for users as a result.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: The inverse searching was a legitimate issue.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It's in Universe, so arguably it's for either.
<Hobbsee> well, it starts with a k :P
<ScottK> So does Kompozer.
<ScottK> ;-)
<wgrant> But Kompozer is Mozilla-based.
<wgrant> So it is known to be insane.
<ScottK> Yes, well.
 * ScottK just lasted an entire hour and 10 minutes in #kubuntu.
<ScottK> Of course I was out of the house picking up teenager #2 from a party for most of that.
<wgrant> Heh.
<superm1> jdong, wooohoo.  8th try :)
<jdong> superm1: how do you get so lucky?
<jdong> superm1: I freaking spent all of last week on this
<superm1> jdong, it probably helps that this is the same machine it "was" paired with before
<ScottK> Ooh.  Good press for .au: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/31/australia.residency.denied.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
<Hobbsee> how is that good press?
<ScottK> Sarcasm.
<Hobbsee> ah, yes.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you should see the proposed filtering legislation.
<ScottK> I saw something about that.
<wgrant> We love you, Senator Conroy.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: yes, and will filter your internet experience so it only allows you access to about 10 sites, just to see how you like it - 10 sites we define.
 * ScottK decides that he's had too much alcohol to know if further comment is appropriate.
<wgrant> ScottK: Always!
<ScottK> I might take that seriously if I didn't ~ know how old you are.
<Hobbsee> heh
<wgrant> Heh.
<wgrant> ScottK: Have a bit more alcohol and file some bugs with 2000-word paragraphs. They're always lots of fun.
<ScottK> Nah.  I'm pretty happy with things computerish.
<superm1> jdong, i think i spoke too soon... did buttons 1-3 on your mouse not go over nicely?
<superm1> (the keyboard works great though)
<wgrant> You know, you could just not get broken hardware.
<superm1> that would make life easy ya know :)
<ScottK> superm1: We're getting questions about when kdebluetooth will be fixed.  Do you have any notion of the timeline?
<Hobbsee> i found it interesting to note how much of this stuff actually does attribute to bad hardware.
<jdong> superm1: they went wine for me
 * wgrant takes a deep breath and joins #ubuntu to see what everybody is complaining about with 8.10.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: you'll regret it.
<jdong> wgrant: WAAH PULSE SKYPE FLASH
<jdong> *ducks*
<Hobbsee> wgrant: forums might be quicker
<jdong> I think I summed it up pretty well :D
<Hobbsee> jdong: you forgot 'firefox' in there, to go with the flash.
<superm1> ScottK, hopefully in the next two weeks provided things keep going smoothly
<wgrant> Hobbsee: The forums are painful.
<Hobbsee> jdong: oh, and 'midnight commander isn't by default!!!'
<wgrant> jdong: I'm expecting more WAAAH TOUCHPAD RESOLUTION TABLET
<Hobbsee> wgrant: you've been there/
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Yes.
<jdong> wgrant: xorg.conf, refresh rate, etc :)
<Hobbsee> ouch
<ScottK> superm1: Thanks.
<ScottK> NCommander: Welcome.
<ScottK> NCommander: It looks like a bzr backport is needed.
<NCommander> uh oh
<NCommander> can we just get away with backporting bzr-svN?
<ScottK> NCommander: No.  It needs the newer bzr.
<ScottK> So it's backport bzr or patch bzr-svn into submission.
<ScottK> NCommander: I'm guessing there are enough bzr fanboys around you can get help.
<NCommander> well
<NCommander> On the plus side, the guy who wanted the bzr backport will be happy
<ScottK> Good night all.
<wgrant> Oh dear god.
<wgrant> Ultimate Edition is being advertised by some users on ubuntuforums.
<ajmitch> you're surprised?
<wgrant> I would have thought somebody would have killed them all.
<ajmitch> no, because all these things are popular
<wgrant> I hoped UE itself would die after Canonical made them remove Ubuntu from the name.
<wgrant> Then there's the guy who is suggesting that people move to Linux Mint because it has Firefox 3.0.3.
<ajmitch> now that's intelligence
<wgrant> I really should avoid ubuntuforums... but once I get there I can't leave without attempting to correct the misinformation...
<ajmitch> "I can't go to bed yet, someone is _wrong_ on the internet!"
<wgrant> Heh.
<ajmitch> xkcd, ever a fount of wisdom for our age
<wgrant> It has an answer for almost everything.
<wgrant> The office next to mine at uni has its walls plastered with what could well be every xkcd comic.
 * NCommander running tackles wgrant 
 * wgrant is crushed.
 * NCommander pulls out dpkg-bicyclepump
 * NCommander sticks one end in wgrant and starts inflating on the pump
<wgrant> It's Bicycle Repair Man!
 * NCommander inflates
<tbielawa> hellooo
<elvis> only MOTU's allowed here?!
<laga> no
<elvis> you a MOTU?
<laga> no, just a lazy MOTU hopeful
<wgrant> laga: You can stop being lazy in a couple of days and fix Jaunty.
 * wgrant cracks the whip.
<laga> oh crap, i promised to do thirty merges
<laga> but hey, i have lots of free time between moving and (hopefully) starting a new job :)
<elvis> whats Jaunty?
<laga> elvis: the new ubuntu release, due next year
<pochu> laga: 30!? I only have to do 3 by now
<laga> pochu: i lost a bet, kinda.
<pochu> but one of them is wxwidgets... if we counted binary packages, I'd win :-)
<pochu> emgent: we want jaunty now!! ;-) http://thc.emanuele-gentili.com/utu/
<laga> oh neat, 14 packages for me
<elvis> Ubuntu devel only involves packaging and patching, and no app dev?
<pochu> elvis: mostly packaging and patching, but there are some applications developed by Ubuntu
<pochu> e.g. ubiquity and update-manager
<ziroday> and jockey
<wgrant> And upstart.
<wgrant> And modifications to existing apps.
<elvis> any work for a c/c++/python programmer in dev team...
<pochu> elvis: if you want to contribute, update-manager, gnome-app-install, ubiquity and jockey are written in python, and update-notifier in C++ IIRC. If you are looking for an employment, http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/ may interest you
<elvis> how do i get to know more about contributing to update-manager, gnome-app-install, ubiquity and jockey...
<ziroday> elvis: you can contact the project authors. You might also want to ask in #ubuntu-devel and read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#Starting%20points
<pochu> elvis: for ubiquity you can ask in #ubuntu-installer
<elvis> thanks people
<slomo> siretart: ping? ffmpeg in experimental has broken dependencies for the -dev packages... something needs libraw1394-dev, libtheora-dev and libvorbis-dev because of some pkg-config file... please fix ;)
<pochu> hi slomo :)
<slomo> hi pochu :)
<siretart> slomo: ok
<siretart> hi slomo!
<siretart> slomo: do you follow pkg-multimedia?
<slomo> siretart: sometimes, depends on how much free time i have :) it was already discussed there?
<siretart> slomo: I'm currently waiting for Diego's visibility patch to get committed and then update the package
<siretart> that was discussed ther.
<slomo> and then the dependencies inside the pkg-config file are not needed anymore because the symbols are invisible?
<siretart> I don't understand that comment
<siretart> that change does not touch any .pc files
<slomo> why are the dependencies in the pc file needed? does some header actually include/use stuff of libtheora and friends?
<siretart> I would expect so, (haven't checked that bit yet)
<slomo> ok, well... the dependencies should be added :) shall i file a bug so it doesn't get lost?
<siretart> yes. bonus points for proper explanation of the issue. I don't understand the problem yet, but that needs to go upstram
<siretart> and least that's my impression
<slomo> siretart: nope, it's a package dependency problem... some pc files requires libtheora and the corresponding -dev package doesn't depend on libtheora
<siretart> slomo: let's continue that discussion in the bug report. OK?
<slomo> siretart: sure
<RainCT> Does someone agree that bug #231611 should be Invalid?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 231611 in tremulous "package does not use debian/patches" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/231611
<pochu> RainCT: indeed, it's up to the Debian maintainer to choose how he wants to modify the upstream source
<pochu> so it's not a bug, and shouldn't be forwarded
<RainCT> pochu: that's what I think, too. I'll close it then :)
<emgent> pochu: ehehe correct. I will update UTU :-)
<emgent> Jaunty is in utu. :-)
<DktrKranz> ScottK, re bug 291476, I'm unable to reproduce it, maybe I haven't understand steps to reproduce the bug.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 291476 in clamtk "Clamtk scans bookmarks " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291476
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I expect that the user has some other issue, but since I don't run Gnome, I can't say what.
<ScottK> clamtk doesn't support on access file scanning, so I've no idea what can be happening.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I'd encourage you to engage with the user to try and find out what the actual bug is.
<DktrKranz> I'm unable to run clamtk from nautilus or from GNOME panel, nor to reach such an option in clamtk itself
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I've no idea what's actually going on in that bug.  I'd say either mark it invalid and move on or work with the user to get more info.
<DktrKranz> I asked user to provide a more detailed description or attach a screenshot, just to make sure I'm in the right direction
<ScottK> Great.  Thanks.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: What are your thoughts on SRU to fix Bug 285793 and Bug 290691?  I've asked upstream for input on the proposed patch for the latter.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285793 in mnemosyne "mnemosyne crashed with NameError in <module>()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285793
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290691 in mnemosyne "mnemosyne causes cpu usage in pulseaudio" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290691
<pochu> emgent: cool, thanks!
<pochu> can has jaunty upload?
<emgent> pochu: np :)
<pochu> if I upload something now, I'll be the third most uploader to Jaunty :P
<emgent> hehehe
<DktrKranz> pochu, I don't thing, they will be on unapproved for a while, so no uploads at all for now ;)
<DktrKranz> *think
<DktrKranz> ScottK, no issues for the first bug, I'm unsure for the second one because upstream seems not to agree to work around on mnemosyne
<ScottK> DktrKranz: What I just got off list from him was "It look OK to me. In fact, I'll also add it to the 1.x codebase."
<ScottK> I think it was more he wasn't going to sort through it since he'
<DktrKranz> but attached patch seems good enought to deserve some testing
<ScottK> is focused on developing the new version.
<ScottK> I think since upstream has said he's going to incorporate the patch, we should be reasonably happy.
 * ScottK goes to mark that in the bug.
 * DktrKranz agrees
<DktrKranz> anyway, I'm mostly fine with it, it should not break anything and should be easily reproducible
 * ScottK makes an SRU.
<DktrKranz> thanks
<ScottK> Actually it's later than I thought and I need to run out, but I'll do it later.
<Elbrus> On oct 26, it was decided here that bug 275688 should be SRU. To me (but I might not see specific things) nothing has happened on it sinse. Can/should I provide more help? Maybe rename the bug to show that it contains a license issue?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-3 (universe) with patch from bug #260464" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
<csilk> lol
<csilk> in #ubuntu some guy is complaining about wmv files not playing in firefox
<csilk> he messaged me with a link to the file not playing
<csilk> it's a porn site/video
<csilk> possible troll?
<csilk> I now give up voluntary tech support
<homy> Hello! My question is not exactly motu-related, but maybe you can help me anyways.
<laga> reminds me of that bug report in the fedora tracker.. the bug report contained some saucy file names ;)
<homy> How do you cross-compile gtk/gtkmm/cairomm apps for windows?
<homy> I tried http://blog.heuristicdesign.co.uk/archives/2007/07/01/cross-compiling-gtkmm-applications-to-windows/, but it didn't work out for me.
<pochu> homy: try asking in #win32 on GimpNet
<homy> pochu: what server is GimpNet?
<pochu> homy: irc.gimp.org
<homy> thanks.
<homy> pochu: nobody answering :)
<AnAnt> Hello, I think that initrd image (in Intrepid) does not start console-setup script, is there a way I can verify that ? and to which package should I submit a bug report ?
<karooga> Hi.  Is anyone available to revu my package?
 * RainCT may be in a while
<karooga> thanks RainCT. :-)
<csilk> karooga, out of curiosity, is it a new package or an update?
<RainCT> csilk: only new packages need to go through REVU
<csilk> I guess that answers my question
<karooga> csilk: new package
<csilk> RainCT,  what's the process for getting an update into the repo then?
<pochu> csilk: file a bug and attach the diff.gz, then subscribe ubuntu-{universe,main}-sponsors
<RainCT> csilk: just file a bug on Launchpad and attach the .diff.gz
<pochu> (depending whether the package is on main or universe)
<csilk> Ok cool, thanks for the info
<soc> hi
<karooga> pochu: is there any specific mailing lists I should join if I'm hoping to be a maintainer?
<soc> i just wanted to ask, if there is maybe a packaging problem with kile
<soc> kile (kde3) wants to install konsole (kde4) that can't be right, can it?
<soc> i assume people renamed konsole-kde4 to konsole and forgot to fix the package dependency of kile ...
<pochu> karooga: there is motu-mentors if you are new to packaging and want to ask questions. ubuntu-motu would be interesting, too
<pochu> karooga: but you aren't forced to join them if you don't want
<karooga> pochu: are they high volume?
<pochu> karooga: 112 messages in ubuntu-motu on October, and 12 in ubuntu-motu-mentors
<RainCT> karooga: I have to leave but will look later at it
<karooga> RainCT: thanks muchly. Do you need a link?
<bdrung> what do i have to do, if i want to update the standards version from 3.7.3 to 3.8.0?
<crimsun> make sure the source package is compliant with the latter version of Policy
<bdrung> how do i know what was changed?
<crimsun> the changelogs for debian-policy and ubuntu-policy should be helpful there
<bdrung> is there a possibility to read the changelogs online?
<crimsun> aptitude changelog {debian,ubuntu}-policy
<jdong> grumble ok it's not alsa's fault... something else in kernelland is hanging everything for 0.1-0.2secs every few minutes
<jdong> that's a job for latencytop, correct?
<crimsun> jdong: yes, it can help
<jdong> alright, time to do some sleuthing
<crimsun> bdrung: also, http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/d/debian-policy/debian-policy_3.8.0.1ubuntu2/changelog and http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/u/ubuntu-policy/ubuntu-policy_3.8.0.1ubuntu4/changelog, respectively
<bdrung> thx
<pochu> bdrung: you can see what changed between 3.7.3 and 3.8.0 in /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz in the debian-policy package
<bdrung> pochu: thx
<slomo> siretart: ffmpeg bug is filed now, i hope that's enough information now ;) sorry for being not very verbose this morning
<slomo> siretart: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=504220
<ubottu> Debian bug 504220 in libavcodec-dev, "Missing dependencies" [Grave,Open]
<Volans22> Hi all! :) Can I ask here for a problem at boot time after intrepid upgrade with encrypted root partition?
<csilk> Volans22, general support is in #ubuntu
<Volans22> csilk: I know, but I think that is a possible bug because LUKS ask me for the passphrase twice and the 2nd time it say that is not correct
<Volans22> (twice for the same partition)
<csilk> Volans22, Ok, I'd still ask in #ubuntu as someone else may have an answer for you, if you genuinely think you have found a bug you can report it at bugs.ubuntu.com
<Volans22> ok csilk, I will ask there, I was thinking that asking here and maybe directly siretart (the cryptsetup package maintainer) would be simpler, but if you prefer to not talk about that here no problem
<marcin_ant> hi all
<marcin_ant> could someone explain me what does this warning mean? "This package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be
<marcin_ant> an appropriate original tar file or .orig directory in the parent directory;" ?
<marcin_ant> I'm trying to follow maint-guide but really don't understand how to handle directories in non-native upstream tarballs
<marcin_ant> could someone help me with this warning?
<csilk> marcin_ant, can you paste the debian/changelog file at paste.ubuntu.com
<marcin_ant> csilk: why debian/changelog? it's initial release of non-native upstream....
<marcin_ant> csilk: there is nothing in changelog
<csilk> marcin_ant, is your error a lintian generated error?
<jdong> crimsun: any clues on Assertion 'pthread_setspecific(t->key, userdata) == 0' failed at pulsecore/thread-posix.c:194, function pa_tls_set()?
<marcin_ant> csilk: yes
<jdong> crimsun: seems like UT2004 triggers it, mentioned in bug 219281
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219281 in totem "totem-gstreamer crashed with SIGSEGV in _int_malloc()" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219281
<csilk> marcin_ant, I don't understand why the changelog would be empty?
<marcin_ant> csilk: oh it's not empty it just has single entry * Initial release
<Elbrus> marcin_ant: I assume you are trying to make a package for the first time?
<csilk> marcin_ant,  I was more interested in the version numbers
<csilk> such as
<csilk> 1ubuntu or 0ubuntu
<Elbrus> marcin_ant: to get rid of this warning make sure that there is a file package_version.orig.tar.gz
<Elbrus> marcin_ant: mind the underscore, in the directory below your package directory
<Elbrus> marcin_ant: I am packaging winff-0.43 (directory) and I have a winff_0.43.orig.tar.gz in the same directory as the winff-0.43 directory
<marcin_ant> csilk: 0ubuntu1
<csilk> Elbrus, where the error said he has a debian revision number I was wondering whether he hadn't changed the default dhmake value of 1ubuntu to 0ubuntu
<csilk> ahh looks like he has
<csilk> yeah in that case you just need the orig.tar.gz as the error states
<csilk> I guess a "debain revision number" just means any revision number then rather than something that's come from the debian repo
<RainCT> re
<csilk> marcin_ant,  you need to cd to the tarball you unpacked at the beginning of the process and do : cp softwareapp-1.2.tar.gz softwareapp_1.2.orig.tar.gz
<marcin_ant> csilk: right and this is a problem I really don't understand
<marcin_ant> csilk: what should I do if inside of tarball there is no directory like softwareapp-1.2 ?
<csilk> that was supposed to be variable -_-
<marcin_ant> csilk: but instead of I got some random files in / and few subdirectories ?
<csilk> marcin_ant, you need to make a copy of the original upstream tarball and include that with your package
<csilk> and it has to be named like   APPNAME_VERSIONNUMBER.orig.tar,gz
<marcin_ant> csilk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete says that wrong directory layout is not a reason to modify original tarball
<radix> hey guys, can anyone tell me how debuild decides that a package is a native debian package?
<csilk> marcin_ant, this won't modify the original tarball, your just making a copy of it
<radix> I am having trouble packaging this piece of software. it's released as a .zip and it has a date-based version number with dashes in it. :P
<marcin_ant> csilk: you don't understand me - I'll try to explain
<marcin_ant> csilk: let's say I got Blabla.tar.gz = upstream
<csilk> ok
<marcin_ant> csilk: and I want to create ubuntu-blabla package from this upstream
<marcin_ant> csilk: so I follow guide and I do:
<marcin_ant> csilk: mkdir ~/ubuntu-blabla
<marcin_ant> csilk: cd ~/ubuntu-blabla
<marcin_ant> csilk: wget http://www.example.com/Blabla.tar.gz
<marcin_ant> csilk: cp Blabla.tar.gz ubuntu-blabla_1.0.0.orig.tar.gz
<marcin_ant> csilk: ok until now - right?
<csilk> marcin_ant, you shouldnt get the lintain error you pasted if you made the orif.tar.gz
<csilk> *lintian
<marcin_ant> csilk: so, I tar zxvf ubuntu-blabla_1.0.0.orig.tar.gz
<csilk> ok you can stop showing me what you did now
<marcin_ant> csilk: but there is no subdirectory inside Blabla.tar.gz vel ubuntu-blabla_1.0.0.tar.gz
<marcin_ant> csilk: so where should I create debian dir?
<csilk> marcin_ant, dh_make will create the debian dir for you in /ubuntu-blabla
<marcin_ant> csilk: if I will create ~/ubuntu-blabla/debian then I will get this error because orig.tar.gz is expected in _parent_
<csilk> correct
<marcin_ant> csilk: "This package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be
<marcin_ant>  an appropriate original tar file or .orig directory in the parent directory;"
<marcin_ant> csilk: so the only way to get rid of this warning is to modify original tarball and create subdirectory in it
<marcin_ant> csilk: right?
<csilk> no
<marcin_ant> csilk: because I should got something like this: ~/ubuntu-blabla/ubuntu-blabla-1.0.0/debian
<csilk> correct
<csilk> and the orig in generallu in ubuntu-blabla
<marcin_ant> csilk: and my upstream tarball should be in ~/ubuntu-blabla renamed to orig
<csilk> yes
<marcin_ant> csilk: and it should unpack sources to ~/ubuntu-blabla/ubuntu-blabla-1.0.0
<marcin_ant> csilk: but to do this it should have this dir inside tarball - but there is no such directory in upstream
<csilk> marcin_ant, you're actually confusing me know.. Give me 3 mins I'm going to very quicky make a dirty package to see if I get the same problem as you
<csilk> **NOW
<RainCT> what's the problem?
<csilk> marcin_ant, the orig should be in /blabla along with blabla.tar.gz
<csilk> simple
<marcin_ant> csilk: ok and where should sources go?
<csilk> in the unpacked dir
<marcin_ant> csilk: and where should be /debian in this structure?
<csilk> oh wait
<csilk> what?
<csilk> -_-
<csilk> you claim to have read the compelte guide
<csilk> ?
<marcin_ant> csilk: and this is a problem
<csilk> why don't I have this problem?
<marcin_ant> csilk: complete guide says that: If you are packaging your own software, or the software is not available as a tar.gz file, you can create the required .tar.gz from an unpacked source directory with a command like the following:
<marcin_ant> tar czf hello-2.1.1.tar.gz hello-2.1.1
<radix> csilk: I think the problem is that the upstream tarball does not organize all of its files into a directory, but rather has them at the root of the tarball
<marcin_ant> radix: exactly!
<radix> at least that's my impression from when marcin said "<marcin_ant> csilk: what should I do if inside of tarball there is no directory like softwareapp-1.2 ?"
<csilk> I must of glazed over that ^
<radix> as it happens, I'm having a vaguely similar problem, so I'd like to hear the solution as well.
<marcin_ant> csilk: and what now ;) ?
<csilk> marcin_ant,  link to tarball please
<marcin_ant> csilk: well if you want something simple you could just tar some random files yourself
<marcin_ant> csilk: but I'm trying to package for example something like this http://plone.org/products/archetypes/releases/1.5/Archetypes-1.5.9.tar.gz
<csilk> hmm sorry for not understanding you earlier, probably something to do with my impaitience today, marcin_ant you could contact upstream and request a dir layout change, alot of the time upstream are quite responsive when you tell them you are packaging for ubuntu repo
<csilk> *impatience
<marcin_ant> csilk: it has a bunch of directories in / of tarball each subdirectory contains files for different deb
<marcin_ant> csilk: well maybe it's a kind of solution - but for me it's just a workaround
<marcin_ant> csilk: because Guide should describe such cases
<csilk> Yes it is, personally I think the policy on not changing dir layout yourself in this case needs reviewing
<csilk> marcin_ant, you could be a rebel and just change the dir layout anyway then submit the new tar.gz as a patch upstream
<marcin_ant> csilk: and provide some real solution - not just "The following are not reasons to change the original tarball: * Wrong Directory Layout "
<marcin_ant> csilk: :-)
<csilk> marcin_ant, yes, I'll mention is on the mailing list, I think the policy should be changed for this specific purpose and some provision introduced as sometimes upstream wont accept pactches nor will they make the requested changes, personally all the upstream devs I've ever contacted have been more than willing to make small changes in order to get their app into the ubuntu repo
<csilk> **it
<csilk> but some people can be funny, it's a kind of "don't tell me how to make my software" kind of arogance
<marcin_ant> csilk: well another thing is that there are packages that are orphaned for years
<marcin_ant> csilk: I mean upstream applications
<csilk> marcin_ant,  I think packages like that aren't really wanted in the repo
<ScottK> You can use debian/rules to put files where they need to be in the binary packages.  No need to re-arrange the source tarball to accomplish that.
<marcin_ant> csilk: there are libraries that are needed in ubuntu but they are few years old and they are not developed anymore
<RainCT> ubottu: are you alive?
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about are you alive?
<csilk> marcin_ant,  yeah that is true, it's not an ideal situation
<RainCT> bug #135864
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 135864 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]ppgplot" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135864
<csilk> ScottK, is that documented anywhere?
<marcin_ant> csilk: thank you anyway :)
<RainCT> csilk: just use dh_install/install/cp/mv
<ScottK> I'm sure it is.  I've on idea where, but debian/rules is just a make file.  Bend it to your will.
<ScottK> on/no
<RainCT> crap, 15 minutes a package review and now I delete it :'(
<marcin_ant> csilk: ??
<csilk> <ScottK> on/no
<csilk> ^ignore
<RainCT> csilk: "I've on idea" -> "I've no idea"
<csilk> yeah i know
<csilk> didnt mean to paste that
<sistpoty> oh, cool... kvirc seems to be compatible between unstable and intrepid (unlike the rest of kde *g*)
<ricosecada> I know that the Ubuntu desktop edition is based upon the Debian unstable branch, but what branch of Debian is the Ubuntu server edition based upon?
<RainCT> Hi ricosecada. Upon the same.
<RainCT> ricosecada: All of Ubuntu (Desktop/Server, Kubuntu, Edubuntu..) is actually in the same repository and many packages are shared between them all
<ricosecada> RainCT, Thanks! :-)
<RainCT> np
<ricosecada> Doesn't that make the server edition a rather "buggy" system (please forgive me, but I come from a Debian "point of view" trying to understand whats Ubuntu does different regarding dev)
<sistpoty> actually unstable is quite stable, despite its name ;)
<jdong> unstable refers to how fast things change
<jdong> not how many times it crashes
<sistpoty> also, after some time in the development cycle (DebianImportFreeze), we don't sync just any new version from debian blindly any longer, but these are subject to manual reviews instead
<ricosecada> I see
<jdong> right. Ubuntu is based off Debian Unstable  the same way Debian releases are based off Debian unstable.
<RainCT> ricosecada: well, packages are massively importe from Debian at the start of the cycle but after that only when a developer request them (and some months before release we enter "Feature Freeze" and no new versions are not allowed anymore), so there is a stabilization process
<ricosecada> So one could argue that Debian stable is in no way "safer" than Debian unstable?
<sistpoty> dear exim, please don't try to send me a mail via remote smtp, that says, that you don't support remote smtp with your configuration. Thanks, stefan.
<ricosecada> What I understand is that debian stable is based upon unstable (skipping testing here), but a lot of bugs has been fixed.
<jdong> ricosecada: well I think one should argue that deriving a distribution off debian unstable doesn't say much about its final stability.
<gouki> I'm trying to sign a package with debsign, but it's not using my key, even though I changed DEBSIGN_KEYID. Any ideas?
<sistpoty> well, actually debian stable is quite solid, since the freeze period (where packages no longer migrate from unstable to testing, but only after a manual review) is much longer
<jdong> ricosecada: both Debian and Ubuntu have a period of stopping the influx of changes for a period before release (freezing) and focusing on stamping out bugs
<ricosecada> Ah, okay.. so the debian freezing is just a longer freeze and perhaps, but not for sure, more bugs are caught.
<ricosecada> RainCT, good point
<ricosecada> Sorry, I meant jdong
<jdong> ricosecada: indeed, Debian freezes for a much longer time and tries much harder to stamp out ALL the bugs.
<cyphermox> gouki: the latest changelog entry author maybe?
<gouki> cyphermox, exactly.
<jdong> ricosecada: whether that's worth delaying your release X (months, years, etc) is a matter that there will never be 100% agreement on
<jdong> that is ultimately why we have both Ubuntu and Debian :)
<cyphermox> gouki: i see. did you run dch -i ?
<gouki> No. Let me read about it, cyphermox
<RainCT> sistpoty: lol
<ricosecada> Thanks a lot! :-) I finally get it now! jdong, your explanation was very helpful!
<jdong> ricosecada: no problems, glad to be able to help :)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-02
<sistpoty> RainCT: well, things happen *g*... maybe I now reported a bug twice, in case exim was smart enough to still retry the original message (the log is a little bit vague, saying completed, which I guess is valid for the bounce only though)
<sistpoty> gouki: I usually use debsign -k<keyid>... as for me DEBSIGN_KEYID never seemed to work *shrug*
<RainCT> well, good night
<sistpoty> gn8 RainCT
<gouki> sistpoty, indeed! That worked like a charm. Weird, as DEBSIGN_KEYID doesn't work. Any ideas why?
<sistpoty> gouki: not really... maybe a bug in debsign?
<sistpoty> gouki: from a glimpse, maybe also setting DEBSIGN_MAINT ?
<RainCT> Random Quote: One of the most striking differences between a cat and a lie is that a cat has
<gouki> sistpoty, hmm, didn't work either :S
<sistpoty> gouki: hm... no idea then, even with staring at debsign's source for some time now
<gouki> Hmmm ... That's weird. Are those variables saved and persistent after reboots? It keeps forgetting the name and email
<cyphermox> did you write them to your .profile or .bash_profile or some other similar file?
<gouki> cyphermox, I thought they were written when using export.
<cyphermox> ah, no. you need to add those to the profile file used by you're shell. maybe there's some other way elsewhere, but i'm not aware of it
<CTho> how do i figure out who the maintainer(s) for a particular package is
<pochu> CTho: "apt-cache showsrc $pkg | grep Maintainer"
<stgraber> most packages in Ubuntu don't have maintainers, only some packages in main have maintainers (but any coredev can still upload)
<CTho> cool
<pochu> hey stgraber :)
<stgraber> hi pochu
<stgraber> how's it going ?
<pochu> stgraber: pretty well! you?
 * pochu just applied to NM
<stgraber> yeah, getting used to living in Canada :)
<stgraber> pochu: coming to UDS ?
<pochu> stgraber: not this time :(
<pochu> stgraber: oh, are you in Canada?
<stgraber> yep, moved there 3 months ago
<stgraber> argh, too bad we'll never meet if you continue to go to UDS only when I don't :)
<stgraber> I'm now working on LTSP and educational softwares at full time and I'm paid for that :)
<stgraber> I'll probably apply for MOTU membership soon though as it seems to be a requirement to get limited upload rights to main now ... (I maintain iTalc/ltsp/ltspfs/ldm and soon ltsp-cluster there but need to get everything sponsored ...)
<stgraber> not that I don't like to speak to my sponsors :) but it'd make things a lot faster to directly upload that to Ubuntu.
<pochu> stgraber: that's cool! yeah, hopefully next UDS...
<stgraber> pochu: yeah, now that I'm working on Ubuntu full-time I should be able to come to every UDS either sponsored by Canonical or by my company (if Canonical sponsors me we can then send someone else)
<pochu> so now all the pressure is on my side :)
<stgraber> yeah :)
 * pochu thinks of a cool proposal for the Kind Koala's UDS :D
<stgraber> topics aren't the problem at UDS, time usually is :)
<pochu> I hope next UDS is not in June ;)
 * pochu is off to bed
<stgraber> pochu: why ? exams ?
<pochu> yeah
<stgraber> yeah, that'd be a problem :)
<stgraber> pochu: good night
<pochu> good night stgraber! see you
<jdong> GREAT SUCCESS! Intrepid boots to ext4 :D
<stgraber> jdong: cool
<jdong> yeah, pretty neat :)
<stgraber> jdong: can we install on ext4 or do you need to install on ext3, then debootstrap on ext4 ?
<jdong> stgraber: I just tune2fs -E test_fs -O extents my /
<jdong> stgraber: but BE CAREFUL: (1) you need to add ext4dev to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules (2) you need a separate ext2/ext3 /boot because grub can't read ext4
<jdong> stgraber: right now I'm just going to mangle all my files in-place to take advantage of extents (i.e. rsync usr usr.new, mv usr.new usr)
<stgraber> ok, that'll take a while :) (Copying all your files)
<jdong> stgraber: yeah, maybe 15 minutes of mangling around; this is a fairly new install
<jdong> stgraber: I'm not sure how much you'd have to hack ubiquity to make it install to ext4dev, probably it'll be a simple hack
<jdong> stgraber: though you will have to manually make sure ext4dev.ko is in initramfs or the next boot will be interesting
<stgraber> yeah :) and force it to create a /boot (as it does with xfs/jfs)
<jdong> correct
<coppro> uh oh
<coppro> I think I found a FTBFS
<coppro> can someone verify or should I just file?
<coppro> hello? Did everyone just run away as soon as I mentioned FTBFS?
<cyphermox> I'm just being curious, but what fails?
<coppro> geordi
<coppro> missing a haskell library in the build-dep I think
<sistpoty> coppro: hm? iirc geordi built last fine a few weeks ago? could you pastebin the error message eventually?
<coppro> sure
<coppro> sistpoty: http://codepad.org/HOYP77NO
<sistpoty> coppro: did you try that in pbuilder?
<coppro> sistpoty: I can't get pbuilder to do it; how do I make the dsc for it to use
<sistpoty> coppro: sudo pbuilder build <dscfile>
<coppro> which dsc?
<sistpoty> coppro: well, if you take a pacakge from the archive, you've already got a dsc
<sistpoty> coppro: otherwise you could build a source package first (dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -us -uc)
<coppro> oh there we go
<sistpoty> coppro: or just use pdebuild in the top source dir
<coppro> I forgot the build
<sistpoty> coppro: however in this case, are you sure you have all the build-dependencies of geordi installed?
<coppro> yes
<coppro> pbuilder fails at satisfying them though
<sistpoty> that would be bad
<coppro> probably
 * sistpoty test-builds geordi
<wgrant> jdong: I was planning to reinstall my laptop later today... I think it might be hack-Ubiquity-on-the-live-CD time.
<jdong> wgrant: it'll be fun! :)
<jdong> FWIW an hour later nothing exploded yet
<wgrant> Not surprising.
<jdong> yeah, I wouldn't expect ext4 to be all that risky
<jdong> performance improvements are modest and incremental
<wgrant> I'd have to tweak /etc/modules and update-initramfs, wouldn't I?
<jdong> for ordinary workloads, little difference, but for huge files, it helps significantly
<jdong> yeah you need to tweak /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
<wgrant> Ah, that's the one.
<jdong> and of course, separate /boot
<wgrant> Yep.
<coppro> how do I get ext4? I already have a separate /boot, so that's not an issue
 * wgrant hits clueless forum users.
<ScottK-laptop> wgrant: That's redundant.
<wgrant> They're now complaining that you can delete root-owned files.
<wgrant> Withou being root.
<wgrant> If you own the parent.
<coppro> bug, clearly
<wgrant> ubuntuforums actually looks a bit better without CSS.
<jdong> you mean everything looks better when it isn't in a crap brown and orange theme?
<jdong> </flamebait>
 * ScottK likes L better that way.
<ScottK> jdong: I'd agree with that.
 * ScottK likes blue.
<jdong> :)
<wgrant> Native widgets help.
<jdong> coppro: well depends on how daring you are
<jdong> coppro: to convert the filesystem, simple tune2fs -E test_fs -O extents /dev/root_block_dev
<coppro> is ext4 installed in the kernel now?
<jdong> coppro: then make sure to add ext4 to initramfs as mentioned
<jdong> coppro: yup
<jdong> err s/ext4/ext4dev/
<jdong> coppro: then edit fstab change ext3 -> ext4dev
<jdong> then reboot
 * coppro blindly follows jdong's instructions
<jdong> afterwards for large files you may have, it helps to make a copy of them and mv the copy over the original
<jdong> extents are only used for newly created files
<ScottK> jdong: You saw my comment about a bzr backport?
<jdong> ScottK: yeah
<coppro> can ext3 still mount the ext4 ones if it doesn't work?
<jdong> coppro: *NO*
<jdong> coppro: once you enable extents there's no going back!
<ScottK> coppro: Make a backup of anything you actually care about.
<coppro> even if they aren't actually used?
<jdong> coppro: it may be prudent to -E test_fs *WITHOUT* -O extents first
<jdong> coppro: then it's backwards compatible
<coppro> ok
<ScottK> coppro: Make a backup of anything you actually care about.
<jdong> coppro: until you're sure you can mount ext4 properly
<jdong> coppro: then add extents and do the copy-move mangling
<jdong> coppro: oh yeah ScottK is absolutely right :).
<coppro> ScottK: yeah, all the stuff I care about is in source code repos :)
<coppro> actually, I know
<ScottK> OK.  If you're going to play with new file systems, consider the data totally expendable.
<ScottK> OK.
<coppro> I'll try it on just /usr for now, and see how that goes
 * wgrant stab stab stab.
<coppro> 99% of that is all package files, so it's recoverable
<wgrant> Don't fricking file bugs after a dev tells you you are *wrong*.
<ScottK> wgrant: Unless it's Launchpad and a Launchpad Dev.
<wgrant> Haha.
<wgrant> True, true.
<coppro> okay, so I've enabled ext4 but no extents on /usr... time to reboot and hope I don't end up having to dig out a boot disk
 * ScottK should probably point out to cprov that you said that.
<jdong> coppro: oh you'll be fine.
<coppro> kk good
<coppro> and when it breaks I blame it on jdong
<wgrant> ScottK: The bugs I file are normally fairly sane, I suspect. Sometimes they object violently but then a few months later the politics sort themselves out and they become high priority...
<coppro> :P
<Hobbsee> wgrant: but because you complain, they don't get listened to.  duh.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: kiko has a good point, but I generally complain more relevantly now.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: doesn't seem to matter.
 * Hobbsee shrugs
<sistpoty> hm.. geordi builds fine as expected, but now coppro is gone
<jdong> oh god, he's still not back?
<jdong> crap....
 * jdong runs away and hides
<sistpoty> heh
<wgrant> Haha.
 * Hobbsee throws rotten tomatoes at jdong
 * wgrant throws in some broken volumes.
<sistpoty> hey, these are still edable Hobbsee :P
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: feel free to eat them...
<sistpoty> *yum*
<Hobbsee> if you really wish :P
<sistpoty> erm... maybe I was wrong *g*
<Hobbsee> they're all squishy and rotten, so...
 * ScottK figures he got what he deserved for listening to a known crackhead.
<sistpoty> haha
<orly_owl> I see it's business as usual in here.
<KOSHrf> hello, i have a question, how do i change display resolutions in 8.10? it seems the X11 doesnt care about xorg.conf and the "graphical" program only gives me 800x600 (i can get way more). Xrand doesnt seem to work either. I was used to get 1024x768 with VESA driver, now i can't get more than 800x600 (in 8.10).
<orly_owl> This isn't a support channel. Try #ubuntu
<KOSHrf> jfc
<KOSHrf> people in #ubuntu tells me to come here
<Hobbsee> well, they're wrong.
<KOSHrf> and people here tells me to go to #ubuntu!
<Hobbsee> this still isn't a support channel.
<KOSHrf> i notice it.
<orly_owl> Go to #ubuntu+1 then
<Hobbsee> orly_owl: is closed.
<sistpoty> KOSHrf: might be a bug, though output of your xorg.log might shade some light
<orly_owl> Ah. fair enough.
<sistpoty> s/shade/shed/
<KOSHrf> sistpoty, well it is pretty empty... i only put the modes in it, thats pretty much all.
<KOSHrf> xorg.log doesnt says anything.
<jdong>  /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
<sistpoty> KOSHrf: /var/log/Xorg.0.log is completely empty?
 * ScottK hands KOSHrf https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/Resolution
<ScottK> It's not your exact problem there, but I suspect the solution will work.
<KOSHrf> by anything i meant "anything wrong" :)
<KOSHrf> ScottK, let me try that, thank you.
 * ScottK then mutters about #ubuntu-x
<KOSHrf> ScottK, nop, it doesnt do anything, xrandr says there is only "800x600" and "640x480" available.
<ScottK> Then I'd ask in #ubuntu-x, but it's generally VERY quiet on the weekends.
<KOSHrf> hehehe, okie, thanks tho
 * jdong points towards the last part of the page
 * wgrant points people towards unbuggy hardware.
<ScottK> wgrant: That page exists because of a monitor that worked fine in Hardy and Intrepid falls over on.
<wgrant> jdong: I couldn't hack the extra FS into partman+ubiquity properly, so I just s/ext3/ext4dev/ in the mkfs and mount commands... it seems to be working.
<jdong> wgrant: wait, what's the proper way? </joke>
<jdong> :)
<wgrant> It seems to now be happily installing with extents enabled.
<jdong> wgrant: awesomeness
<jdong> I have to keep a swapfile and extents are just wonderful for that
<ScottK> Note to self: The changelog entry isn't enough.  You have to actually make the change for it to count.
<jdong> ScottK: lol there needs to be a lintian added-dpatch-but-series-unchanged alarm :)
<jdong> I've caught myself doing that several times when inspecting a debdiff pre-upload
<ScottK> Yeah.  I had one of those last week.  I even uploaded it.  Fortunately it was an SRU, so I could just get it rejected.
<wgrant> One of my main uploads towards the end of Intrepid had one of the patches removed by the sponsor... but he didn't add either of them to series, and nobody noticed for a couple of days.
<wgrant> It's too easy to do.
<jdong> yeah, indeed
<jdong> hmm I'm going to give the Kubuntu CD a try.
<jdong> I admittedly haven't touched KDE for almost a year now and am curious
<ScottK> jdong: IMO KDE4 makes Gnome look a bit tired and old fashioned.
<jdong> ScottK: I've heard enough good things that I'm at least curious
<jdong> ScottK: you know if anything will blow up if I install kubuntu-desktop on Ubuntu? :)
<jdong> the livecd was definitely intriguing
<ScottK> jdong: I don't know because I haven't done it, but it should be fine (assuming you mean install the metapacakge from the archives and not some silly use the CD thing)
<rrittenhouse> I tried the 8.10 livecd and had some issues but overall it blows the gnome look out of the water. I just don't like some of the functionality. I couldn't get the twitter widget to work without it screwing up pretty bad.
<rrittenhouse> jdong, In 8.04 I installed it and it replaced my Ubuntu screen with Kubuntu and it threw all of the kubuntu stuff into my gnome menus. It was pretty annoying.
<ScottK> Well KDE4 is young and so it's definitely got some rough edges.
<rrittenhouse> yep
<rrittenhouse> It looks great though.
<jdong> well it's going to add kubuntu stuff all over the menu for sure
<jdong> and a splash screen isn't going to kill me
<jdong> and the autoremove thing should give me a quick uninstall path if I don't like it :)
<rrittenhouse> jdong, Yeah I rarely rebooted and when I did that was the only time the other IT guys hassled me for having Kubuntu on it :P
<rrittenhouse> (at work anyhow)
<jdong> rrittenhouse: update-alternatives on the usplash-artwork.so file should do the trick
<rrittenhouse> ah
<rrittenhouse> I went to Ibex there today anyhow =/
<rrittenhouse> I have to go back in tomorrow and keep working through all of my issues and get a running system again.
<jdong> might just be me, but ext4 seems to unpack these debs a lot faster
<rrittenhouse> hmm
<rrittenhouse> Does Ibex do ext?
<rrittenhouse> er
<rrittenhouse> ext4* by default
<ScottK> No
<jdong> no, it's experimental in 2.6.27
<jdong> you've got to be a daring idiotic fool like me to try to hack it working :)
<rrittenhouse> Oh ok. I swore it was Ext3. Ok
<rrittenhouse> i see
<rrittenhouse> haha :-D
<rrittenhouse> I normally am. I'm actually trying to involve myself into the project more to see what I can (hopefully not) screw up :P
<jdong> (e2fsprogs in Intrepid along with the kernel support ext4 but neither advertises its abilities by default)
<rrittenhouse> interesting.
<jdong> it's been marked stable in 2.6.28 (i.e. recommended for adoption) but AFAICT there's no significant code changes to get to that marking
<jdong> but the improvements for the average user IMO are not worth it to make your system experimental and unsupported :)
<rrittenhouse> yeah
<rrittenhouse> I should just VM that then? :P
<rrittenhouse> that is if VMWare wants to work with the newer kernels. I was having a horrid time with vmware server 2 in 8.04 with the last 2-3 kernels.
<jdong> testing from KDE4 :)
<rrittenhouse> :)
<rrittenhouse> I
<rrittenhouse> I'm just not sure if I could convert over to KDE.. I've tried. :P
<ScottK> jdong: Feel free to stop in on #kubuntu-devel if you want to discuss the experience.
<jdong> ScottK: absolutely if I find something productive to say, I'll do so :)
<ScottK> jdong: Also we'll have KDE 4.1.3 hitting intrepid-proposed next week, so the bug fix goodness level should go up.
<jdong> ScottK: fantastic
<ScottK> Good night.  Hope you enjoy it.
<jdong> thanks :)
<Aron> what files should I submit to the ubuntu source if I wants to maintain a deb package?
<fabrice_sp> Hi Aron. You can find more info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing. Is it for a new package or an existing one?
<fabrice_sp> Aron_: anyway, all begins with a bug in launchpad
<Aron_> ...
<Aron_> I am just reading the page you gave me
<iulian> Good morning.
<didrocks> morning
<didrocks> it there any special SRU versioning scheme?
<RainCT> didrocks: you can use the same as for security updates
<didrocks> RainCT: that was what I reckoned! Thanks a lot ;)
 * RainCT released https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/CheckList into the wild for people to improve it (this includes coming up with a better name for the page :P)
<DktrKranz> RainCT, what about asking archive-admins for common reject cases (e.g. for copyright issues)? It could be an added value to that page
<Hobbsee> * Package is empty:  reject
<StevenK>  * Package is empty, or only contains changelog and copyright file for a non-meta package: reject
<wgrant>  * Package matches /matix$/: reject
<StevenK> wgrant: ^5
<RainCT> wgrant: uhm?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: +1
<laga> RainCT: automatix
<RainCT> :)
<Hobbsee> or ultamatix
<RainCT> Hobbsee: so, empty packages are common? o.O
<wgrant> I would also like to propose automatic rejection of NEW packages with 'ubuntu' in the version.
<laga> i once had an empty package approved. i forgot to bzr add stuff :/
<Hobbsee> RainCT: Um, sometimes.  I've seen a few
<Hobbsee> i don't really do much of it
<laga> wgrant: what about ubuntu-specific packages?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: why?
<karooga> RainCT: re: src and bin package names, should they be exactly the same?
<RainCT> karooga: no, they are fine
<StevenK> karooga: No they shouldn't. They should be *sane*
<RainCT> karooga: the name of the binary package should follow the Python policy
<RainCT> karooga: that one of the source package name can be the same as upstream gave it
<wgrant> laga: That is my point. We don't want them.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: We don't want to maintain many hundreds of packages on our own.
<laga> wgrant: no, i mean if they're only going to work on ubuntu.
<laga> stuff like ubuntu studio meta packages etc
<wgrant> Ah.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: well, i'd say a more effective way of doing that woudl be to close REVU, adn give people other things to work on
<wgrant> But that would make sense...
<Hobbsee> wgrant: they only end up in the new queue after being reviewed and uploaded, so that seems slightly silly.
<karooga> RainCT: great. When I did the packaging, I did it for hardy and intrepid - I presume I should still do it for these too, in addition to jaunty?
<StevenK> The Ubuntu Studio meta packages I daresay didn't hit REVU, and they don't contain ubuntu in their version, since they're native
<Hobbsee> wgrant: well, that's true.  It would actually make sense.  But I think people are *finally* starting to see exactly why it doens't, and that they needto do something about it.  I live in hope, anyway!
<StevenK> Hobbsee: But we're the final line of defense!
<Hobbsee> StevenK: oh?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: why?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: -archive is
<RainCT> karooga: Jaunty is enough but yes, if you aim to get them backported later then ensuring that they work on previous releases is a good thing :)
<laga> StevenK: we were not talking about REVU, we were talking about possible reasons why an archive admin would reject a package :)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: that's true.  But i'm not seeing the relevance, as such :)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Off the cuff comment
<laga> StevenK: i was under the impression that non-native packages with an upstream tarball are preferred. like the mythbuntu stuff is handled
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ah, right.
<StevenK> laga: The seeds and meta packages ought to be native
<laga> yeah, they are. other stuff isn't. like default settings packages
<StevenK> Seeds are special
<StevenK> default settings and such, I can go either way
<StevenK> -m{id,obile}-default-settings are native
<Hobbsee> laga: actually, there's a really good debian link about this.
<Hobbsee> laga: http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html iirc
<laga> then let's link that on the REVU page
<Hobbsee> not all are relevant, though
<laga> fails to build from source in a sane way  <- got to love that one
<Hobbsee> yup
<Hobbsee> laga: what might be useful is if you document which of those are relevant for that page, and link it.
<laga> i have no clue which ones are relevant and i dont have my wiki login handy ;)
<Hobbsee> laga: oh, sorry, it was RainCT who was adding them, not you.
 * Hobbsee got the purple people mixed up
<Hobbsee> RainCT: ^
<laga> purple?
<laga> too much fluor in your drinking water?
<ogra> purple people ? but he's geen !
<Hobbsee> heh
<ogra> *green even
<Hobbsee> you show as purple in my client.  as does ogra.
<laga> can i get another color?
<ogra> you should really rework your color scheme, you are yellow btw ...
<Hobbsee> heh
<StevenK> All of you are black
<laga> i don't have a nick list
<StevenK> Until you say my name, and then for that line you're red
<wgrant> All of you are white.
<wgrant> Unless you're yellow.
<laga> wgrant: irssi?
<wgrant> laga: Affirmative.
<laga> \o/
<RainCT> wgrant: good choice \o/
<marrow> Hi all
<marrow> Can somebody help with a packagin issue, pls?
<RainCT> hi marrow
<marrow> I am stuck
<RainCT> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<Hobbsee> Are people ready for hte open day?
<marrow> ubottu: noted
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about noted
<marrow> I am new in pachaging. I was trying to upgrade small packages for practice, but at pbuilder I always get an error. Always when it tries to apply the patches of the previous version.
<RainCT> marrow: well, the source changed then, so you'll have to see if the patches are still necessary and if they are redo the patch against the new source
<marrow> I see. And do I need to note whether the patches are necessary or not in the changelog?
<RainCT> marrow: yep, that's usually a good thing to do
<marrow> Ok.
<marrow> One more thing which is not clear to me. A patch is a debdiff, right?
<marrow> So if I make a debdiff from a modification, then I simply rename that debdiff to xyz.patch?
<RainCT> marrow: no, a patch is a patch (and a debdiff is basically also a patch, but is unrelated to this)
<RainCT> marrow: which patch system is the package using? (you can check by running the command what-patch, available in ubuntu-dev-tools)
<marrow> Ok. I install the ubuntu-dev-tools first, and check
<marrow> any other way to check the patch system, btw?
<RainCT> marrow: yep, look at debian/rules
<marrow> RainCT: it says quilt
<RainCT> marrow: OK. I still haven't got to understand quilt but there are instructions on how to use it on the wiki :P
<laga> quilt is great IMHO
<RainCT> marrow: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Quilt
<RainCT> laga: simple-patchsys is great :P :P
<marrow> RainCT: if a patch is a patch, and not a debdiff than how do you generate the patch
<laga> yeah.
<laga> RainCT: i only ever used quilt outside of packages.. but that was for 150 patches. it was great for that
<RainCT> marrow: Using quilt :). That wiki page explains how to do it.
<marrow> Any other wiki pages? For simple-patchsys for example? :)
<RainCT> marrow: not sure if there's one, but you shouldn't change the patch system used by existing packages
<Laney> 'lo all
<RainCT> marrow: and hey, I don't like it but this doesn't mean that you can't use it :)
<RainCT> hi Laney
<Laney> Anyone fancy some reviewing? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=goocanvasmm
<Hobbsee> for a dist-upgrade, does update-notifier show you the release notes?
<Laney> Hi RainCT. How are you?
<marrow> I am not considering to change the patch system. I take what is given
<RainCT> marrow: there are two ways how you may update this patch:  quilt refresh <filename>.diff  - this will probably not work, as you said that the patches don't apply
<RainCT> marrow: or deleting the old patch and adding a new one which does the same (instructions on the wiki)
<Hobbsee> RainCT: for simple patchsys?  I thought that was the cdbs'ey one.
<RainCT> Hobbsee: that's for quilt. and yes, simple-patchsys = cdbs
<Hobbsee> oh, right, it actually is quilt.
<RainCT> Laney: fine, fine. I should be learning maths but well, I'm doing some Ubuntu stuff as it's funnier :P
<Laney> hm, maths is fun too
<Laney> ...not as fun as reviewing packages........
 * Laney runs away fast
 * RainCT added a section about the copyright file to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/CheckList
<RainCT> Laney: not if you have to learn the stuff from the past three months :P
<RainCT> (erm, it's 2 months actually, but anyway :P)
<marrow> RainCT. Thank you for your help. I will dive further into the patch systems.
<marrow> One more question: what is pushd and popd?
<marrow> No manual entries for them
<thvdburgt> I hope this is the right place to report this, I just installed libvisual-dev to play around with it. But when I include libvisual-0.4/libvisual.libvisual.h and I compile these errors are given: /usr/include/libvisual-0.4/libvisual/libvisual.h:27:32: error: libvisual/lvconfig.h: No such file or directory.
<marrow> I haven't seen these words since I learnt assembly
<thvdburgt> I think the files should be in /usr/include/libvisual/*.h
<RainCT> marrow: that's bash stuff.. pushd x = cd to directory x, popd = cd back to where you were before the pushd
<marrow> I see
<marrow> Thank you again RainCT
<RainCT> you're welcome :)
<RainCT> Laney: looking at it
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> Don't forget your maths though
<Laney> (If you want to see it working, look at glom in my PPA)
<karooga> can anyone confirm whether I can use hardy script in /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/ for jaunty?  (I'm running hardy still...)
<RainCT> karooga: I guess so
<RainCT> Laney: why don't you use version 3 in debian/watch? (the only change is that you can remove the "debian uupdate") :P
<Laney> RainCT: No reason. I copied it from elsewhere
<RainCT> Laney: oh, btw, I think I already looked at your package yesterday (the "Most of the docs are junk" made me remember) :)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> You didn't leave any comments
<RainCT> yeh, debian/* looked good at a first glance and I was too lazy to do a complete review :P
<Laney> I just noticed a typo in the rules file
<Laney> 0.1-2 -> 0.1-3
<RainCT> Laney: right, consider using a variable for that
<Laney> good idea
<RainCT> oh, why is everything I'm reviewing these days released under the LGPL? :P
<RainCT> Laney: debian/copyright is incomplete, some files are under the GPL
<Laney> RainCT: The ones in examples/?
<RainCT> Laney: yep, and scripts/ltmain.sh
<Laney> I got the examples one
<RainCT> but that file is from the FSF, not sure if it needs to be listed
<Laney> RainCT: http://www.nabble.com/Should-copyright-information-for-automake-generated-files-be-added-to-debian-copyright--td17191924.html
<karooga> RainCT: enjoyed your packaging chklist. thanks.
<RainCT> karooga: great :)
<RainCT> Laney: Alright, I'm fine with not listing it.
<Laney> RainCT: Also, I have those GPL2 files listed, no?
<Laney> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/goocanvasmm-0811021315/goocanvasmm-0.12.0/debian/copyright
<Laney> Or is the way I did it unclear?
<RainCT> Laney: oh, sorry. I did an "apt-get source" but haven't updated the package list today :)
<Laney> heh
<RainCT> Laney: uhm.. does the LGPL2.1 need the GPL file or does it include all terms? (I know that LGPL3 requires the GPL3 to be shiped together with it, but about 2.1 I'm not sure, and the file is 4 times as long as 3)
<Laney> I don't know what you mean
<RainCT> Laney: nevermind, I see now that LGPL2.1 seems to be a license by itself :)
<Hobbsee> RainCT: for more stuff you shouldn't od, you could also add: http://mjg59.livejournal.com/99905.html
<Hobbsee> but maybe it's a bit too upstream-based
<RainCT> Laney: I asked because the LGPL3 file just includes "Additional clauses" to be applied upon GPL3, so I wasn't sure if it was the same for previous versions
<Laney> I see
<RainCT> "First, let me make one thing clear. This isn't constructive criticism. This is just criticism" LOL
<Hobbsee> RainCT: wait till you read the multiple points of fail...
<Hobbsee> would it be wrong to format the guy's computer to vista, and lock the bootloader?
<sebner> Hobbsee: good to know that our archive admins have a *matix filter for the archive :P
<Hobbsee> sebner: yeah, looking at that...
 * Laney remembers jdong's april fool
<Hobbsee> although i note they haven't been stupid enough to submit that.
<iulian> Laney: Indeed.
<sebner> Hobbsee: yet ... :P
<Hobbsee> sebner: well, if they do, i'm sure they won't live long.  That will become a job for someone like mneptok
<laga> oh, mjg59 rage
<Laney> RainCT: Check the latest upload. I added a variable to rules, fixed watch and relicensed in copyright
<Laney> \o/
<sebner> hrh
<RainCT> Hobbsee: that's scaring.. and I'm going to love mjg59 :P
<Hobbsee> RainCT: oh yes...The last one was also pretty good, too
<laga> RainCT: you should read his blog. it's awesome
 * laga is a huge mjg59 fanboy. embarrassing.
<RainCT> laga: if he's on planet.ubuntu.com, I'm already reading it :P
<laga> RainCT: not all of his postings go there
<wgrant> He is certainly rather high in the awesomeness ranks.
<orly_owl> Link?
<wgrant> http://mjg59.livejournal.com/99905.html
<wgrant> orly_owl: ^^
<karooga> is there any preferred for patch names using cdbs (cdbs-edit-patch some_name)?
<marcin_ant> hi
<marcin_ant> short question - is there any guide that can describe how to create package if upstream is available only as cvs or svn checkout?
<marcin_ant> or maybe I should just checkout and tar?
<marcin_ant> am I right?
<pochu> marcin_ant: yes, but create a get-orig-source target in debian/rules to generate the tarball
<karooga> anyone familiar with cdbs-edit-patch?
<RainCT> karooga: what's the question?
<karooga> RainCT: is there any preference naming patches?
<RainCT> karooga: just use something that makes what the function of the patch as clear as possible
<pochu> karooga: cdbs will apply patches alphabetically, so a common option is to append a number to the patch name
<pochu> like 01_fix_foo.patch
<karooga> RainCT: Ok cool.  And if there are multiple changes, is it good practice to create different patches for each change?
<RainCT> karooga: yep
<karooga> pochu: thanks
<RainCT> Laney: looks good, but I have no pbuilder environment around right now
<RainCT> persia: use case for neutral comments ^   :P
<Laney> RainCT: I've just uploaded it to my PPA, should be built soon
<Laney> ;)
<RainCT> ok, I'll go study maths in the meantime :P
<Laney> RainCT: Built
<persia> RainCT, Except you're asking for another revision when you do this, which ought be a rejection.
<RainCT> persia: EMENOTUNDERSTAND
<rawler> any suggestions on a good UML tool?
<persia> RainCT, Your use case for neutral comments is that you want patches to be named sanely.  You have asked for a new revision with sane names.  This is a rejection.  If you liked it, you'd advocate it without comment.
<persia> rawler, You might try gaphor, but it's not had a history of working well.
<RainCT> persia: that's not my use case :). the use case is "looks good but I have no pbuilder environment around right now" :P
<persia> RainCT, Umm...  That's not a useful comment.
<RainCT> (and whether this is a good use case or not is arguable, but it is one :P)
<persia> You're just saying "I didn't actually review this", which doesn't add value.
<persia> Yeah.  I'll give it to you as a use case, although I'm of the opinion it's more of a useless case.
<RainCT> persia: it is if I forget which package it was that I had reviewed, as it can then find it easily looking at my last comments, or if I look at it then just by seeing the comments I remember "ah, that's the one I reviewed" :P
<RainCT> yeh, I think those which siretart had were better
<persia> I suppose.  I've always been a fan of doing proper reviews in FIFO order, and I try to avoid reviewing the same package twice in a row as I don't believe that packages benefit from having the same reviewer for multiple revisions.
<persia> So, I don't see any value in keeping track of which packages were reviewed, especially if the review wasn't actually performed completely.
<persia> Anyway, late here.  We can resume the debate another day :)
<rawler> persia: oki, will try.. thanks.. :)
 * RainCT feels the silence
<Laney> heh
<Laney> I'm trying to install Intrepid on my new macbook
<stgraber> Laney: how new is that ?
<Laney> 5 days
<stgraber> is that one with the dual-graphic cards thing or the latest of the previous serie ?
<Laney> I think only the pros have that
<stgraber> ok
<orly_owl> dual cards for better performance or multi monitor?
<Laney> orly_owl: One is low-powered for battery life and one is for performance
<Laney> you can switch which one it uses
<orly_owl> ah
<orly_owl> i've heard of this. was there another company offering it?
<Laney> Dell maybe
<orly_owl> wow tiny mobo http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/10/SHdpS4vY1kdqB4TU_01.jpg
<karooga> if creating an initial package, which requires some patches - do I add this information to the changelog?
<Elbrus> karooga: I don't believe so. Just document the changes (in text) in the patch (you should use a patch system)
<karooga> did I miss any replies?  my connection got dropped (again)!
<jdong> 11:04 < Elbrus> karooga: I don't believe so. Just document the changes (in  text) in the patch (you should use a patch system)
<karooga> jdong: ta.
<ScottK> RainCT: I think "I didn't do a full review, but what I looked at looks good" is a useful comment.
<RainCT> ScottK: wow, today you're supporting all my thoughts :)
<ScottK> RainCT: Keep having good ones then.
<ScottK> ;-)
<RainCT> karooga: I usually write a line for each patch in debian/changelog (like "* debian/patches/<name>: fix foo"), but if you write a description in the patch itself then it's fine too just write the name of the patch in debian/changelog (imho the name is important so that you can easily see when each patch was introduced)
<karooga> RainCT: didn't realise you where notified of my last upload automatically.  Was just checking for new lintian errors... still working out how I'm going to do the licensing.
<Elbrus> RainCT: I think karooga was asking about an initial packaging. Of course I agree with later changes getting mentioned.
<RainCT> karooga: (note that if you'd add a patch to an existing package from Debian then it's good to add as much information as possible (links to bug reports, whether the patch is Ubuntu specific or not, etc.), so that the Debian maintainer can decide without too much work if he wants to adopt it or not)
<RainCT> karooga: heh yes, I subscribed to mail notifications :)
<RainCT> Elbrus: yes, but I think it's also good to list at least the names in the initial changelog entry so that people the package in the future see "aha, this patch has been here since the initial packaging, and it was added by <original maintainer>"
<RainCT> (other may have a different opinion here, though)
<Elbrus> RainCT: I do think you have a point there.
<Elbrus> :)
 * Elbrus luckely didn't have to patch my first package...
<Elbrus> s/my/his ;)
 * RainCT maintains at least one package with over 5 patches since the first release :)
<RainCT> (most of those Debian specific, though)
<karooga> RainCT: cool - i mention the patches in changelog.  How do I handle adding licenses? You mentioned repackaging - I think patches should sort this out (elegantly)?
<karooga> RainCT: oh and this isn't in debian (although I would like to get it into debian too). :-)
<RainCT> karooga: if you say that because of point 6, Ubuntu is a Bebian system too. (and getting the package into Debian would be awesome! :))
<RainCT> karooga: about the first question, I'm not sure but I think the licenses have to be in the .orig.tar.gz
<RainCT> ScottK: does the GPL need to be in the orig tarball or is enough if it's in debian/ (ie, .diff.gz)?
<ScottK> A full copy of the license needs to be in the orig tarball
<RainCT> ScottK: right, thanks for confirming that :)
<RainCT> karooga: so yes, ask upstream to release a new tarball including the LGPL
<RainCT> karooga: (and nevermind about mentioning the GPL in debian/copyright, that's only for LGPL3)
<karooga> RainCT: yup, already asked him.  In your review you mentioned repackaging myself to include LGPL...
<RainCT> karooga: yeah, but only if upstream doesn't answer
<karooga> RainCT: GPL referring to my packaging, right?
<RainCT> karooga: no, about point 6 (forget that) and "ask the author to add both files to the source tarball" (only the LGPL is enough)
<RainCT> I got confused about this because LGPL3 does require to be shipped together with the GPL, because it just contains some "Additional clauses" to add to the GPL, but LGPL2.1 seems to be a complete license on its own
<RainCT> Laney: advocated :)
<Laney> RainCT: \o/
<RainCT> Anyone up to give http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=goocanvasmm a second advocate (or to hit Laney with complains about something being wrong *g*)?  :)
<lfaraone> When's the repo opening for jaunty?
<lfaraone> And I have a package that I've made but havn't submitted to debian/ubuntu. Any clue on whether I should persue debian first, or will that take too long for my package to get in before the import freeze?
<RainCT> lfaraone: I'd say try Debian first
<RainCT> for me the response time there has been pretty good (although I'm not sure how it's now with lenny being freezed)
<lfaraone> RainCT: Ok, I'll ask at OFTC.
<lfaraone> RainCT: Is work in debian considered when applying for MOTU? (a long-term goal of mine)
<karooga> RainCT: ok so only LGPL is needed.  Does your comment about licensing info in the .c and setup.py still stand?
<lfaraone> Oh, and is there a WYSIWYG way to write manpages?
<RainCT> karooga: yes
<RainCT> lfaraone: (to get a package into Debian, submit it to mentors.debian.net and then mail debian-mentors@ asking for review -there's a template for that on the webpage)
<lfaraone> RainCT: Thanks.
<RainCT> lfaraone: There may be some year old (ugly) stuff, but it isn't difficult at all to do them yourself. One easy way, for instance, would be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/PODManpage, but just doing them in roff directly isn't very difficult neither (I may write a howto for that too some day)
<lfaraone> RainCT: ah, kk.
<karooga> RainCT: http://paste.ubuntu.com/66332/
<lfaraone> RainCT: is it upstream's task to write a manpage, or is it acceptable to write one for packaging?
<lfaraone> (for the package itself)
<karooga> RainCT: is that right?
<Laney> lfaraone: You can write one, but submit it back upstream once you do.
<lfaraone> Laney: Ok.
<RainCT> lfaraone: it's good to write it yourself if there isn't one (and send it upstream for them to include it into the tarball)
<lfaraone> (fortunately, I'm familiar with the upstream, so I'll try to get that accepted)
<RainCT> karooga: that isn't the most usual formatting but yes, if dch can parse it it's fine
<karooga> RainCT: what is the program that does proper formatting of changelog?
<karooga> ah, dch
<karooga> :-)
<RainCT> karooga: the human mind :)
<RainCT> and dch can help too ,)
<lfaraone> Hey, where are the app descriptions that show up in gnome-session-preferences derived from?
<Laney> what is gnome-session-preferences?
<lfaraone> Laney: the app that lets you choose what starts up when you login
<Laney> Oh, -properties :P
<lfaraone> Laney: ie pidgin, gnome settings daemon, etc
<Laney> (I tried to run it)
<lfaraone> Laney: lol, yeah
<RainCT> karooga: http://paste.ubuntu.com/66336/ that'd be a more normal format
<karooga> RainCT: do you have an example pkg? with initial release + patches?
<karooga> RainCT: ta
<RainCT> karooga: the explanation for patch 02 is unclear, btw (why is that needed for hardy?)
<Laney> karooga: Did you see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines ?
<karooga> RainCT: there is a move away from g2c apparently, gfortran is the future.
<RainCT> karooga: then that isn't only necessary for Hardy, is it?
<karooga> Laney: didn't see that - was just looking at the patch section in cdbs documentation.
<RainCT> karooga: write something like  "Change from g2c to gfortran because the former is not available in Ubuntu." then
<karooga> RainCT: nope, already changed to ">= hardy"
<RainCT> k
<lfaraone> So, when does jaunty unfreeze?
<RainCT> lfaraone: when there's a mail on ubuntu-devel announcing that it's unfrozen :)
<RainCT> *or open, rather
<lfaraone> RainCT: lol.
<Elbrus> If you are packaging in a PPA, should you put yourself as the maintainer instead of motu?
<Elbrus> I want my package in ubuntu after some build blocking bugs are solved
<RainCT> yep
<Elbrus> hmm, than I need to fix all the packages in my PPA :(
<Elbrus> but in retrospect it is quite trivial...
<RainCT> Elbrus: if you aren't doing so, also use ~ppaX or something in the version number
<RainCT> (so that the package will be replaced once it's in Jaunty)
<Elbrus> that's exactly what I am doing
<karoog1> laney: those patch tagging guidelines are awesome!
<Elbrus> so I wouldn't need to change the maintainer?
<RainCT> Elbrus: Alright then. You do, the Maintainer shouldn't be MOTU if we the MOTU Team isn't responsible for it, but it isn't something urgent to change unless people start mailing ubuntu-motu@ to complain about them
<Elbrus> I completely understand. But I guess the idea is that it could be pulled from the ppa.
<Elbrus> and IIRC it prevents lintian warnings
<gouki> Where should the environment variables bet set? DEBFULLNAME, etc.
<Laney> karoog1: Yeah, thery're a good idea imo
<Laney> gouki: I have them in .profile
<Laney> Er, no that's not right. I have them in .bashrc
<azeem> usually they are set in ~/.devscripts I believe
<karoog1> Laney: do you know where they tie in later?
<Laney> karoog1: What do you mean?
<karooga> Laney: i.e. does it integrate into launchpad later, or something like that?
<Laney> karooga: It's used by dch and some other apps to fill in your name and email
<RainCT> Elbrus: the warning about the maintainer not being @ubuntu.com? you can ignore that for PPAs
<karooga> Laney: cool.
<RainCT> karooga: Launchpad checks the e-mail in the debian/changelog file to know who to credit for an upload
<RainCT> (but to authenticate the package when it's upload it looks at the GPG signature in the changes file)
<karooga> RainCT: did the launchpad src code get opened?
<stgraber> karooga: not yet
 * RainCT notices that he has reverted the work the had done on REVU yesterday and headdesks XD
 * ScottK hands RainCT an aspirin.
<RainCT> ScottK: thx ^^
<RainCT> well, it isn't that bad as I didn't like the way I had done the changes anyway :P
<RainCT> btw, do you think it would be of any use if ubotu could fetch info about packages on REVU?
<CarlFK> I just got a big spew of stuff, and need a hint as to what the problem is
<CarlFK> sudo apt-get build-dep gqcam filled my ssh term buffer with stuff like var/lib/scrollkeeper/C/scrollkeeper_extended_cl.xml:1726: parser error : attributes construct error <tocsec">To Add Files to an Archive
<CarlFK> here is the whole buffer http://dpaste.com/88322/  including an attempt to do it again
<CarlFK> hmm... myabe this is an #xubuntu thing...
<RainCT> CarlFK: here it works (Ubuntu Intrepid and Ubuntu Server Hardy)
<CarlFK> yeah, worked on a normal ibex box too
<CarlFK> hmm, your -server doesn't have gnome either.  this made me think it was because I was on xubuntu:  Extra content at the end of the document     <sect categorycode="GNOMEPreferences">
<gouki> If the INSTALL file doesn't mention any dependencies, the other option is trial and error, right?
<azeem> gouki: look at configure.ac or configure.in
<azeem> INSTALL is usally generic for autotool projects
<gouki> azeem, thank you.
<azeem> gouki: especially check the PKG_CONFIG macros in there
<azeem> README might have a list of dependencies as well
<gouki> azeem, README also didn't mention anything. I'll look into the file you mentioned.
<CarlFK> gouki:  apt-get build-dep <package>
<gouki> CarlFK, it's a new package that is not in the repositories.
<CarlFK> oh... never mind :)
<gouki> :)
<gouki> I'm trying to understand how to fill the dependencies field in control.
<azeem> you mean Build-Depends, right?
<gouki> azeem, yes, I'm sorry.
<gouki> azeem, BTW, in configure I already found out it requres libssl :) Thanks.
<gouki> Does mention version, so it's safe to assume the latest one will work?
<azeem> it's not safe
<azeem> but it's obviously the only thing you can assume
<gouki> OK
<gouki> Also in Build-Depends, should I leave debhelper and autotools-dev and add the new ones?
<RainCT> gouki: yep
<gouki> RainCT, thank you.
<karooga> RainCT: looking at another pkg now - which has LGPL in orig tar ball.   Is it necessary to reference it in copyright?
<RainCT> karooga: you've to point to /usr/share/common-licenses/LGPL2-2.1, as the LGPL file won't be included in the .deb
<karooga> RainCT: really?  so debuild actually excludes it?
<iulian> It's LGPL-2.1.
<RainCT> karooga: debuild includes what debian/rules gives it
<RainCT> right, typo
 * iulian is going to pick up a package from REVU and reviewing it.
<Tetracomm> Hello.
<Tetracomm> What is wrong with using checkinstall to create Debian packages?
 * Elbrus would like REVU to have the desciption of the packages on the front page...
<sebner> Tetracomm: you can do that for private use ;) but such packages won't ever be in the archive
<ScottK> !checkinstall | Tetracomm
<ubottu> Tetracomm: checkinstall is a wrapper to "make install", useful for installing programs you compiled. It will create a .deb package, which will be listed in the APT database and can be uninstalled like other packages. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckInstall - Read the warnings at the top and bottom of that web page, and DO NOT interrupt CheckInstall while it's running!
<Tetracomm> sebner: Why?
<sebner> Tetracomm: because they aren't valid packages. it's more like a quick and dirty dirty dirty solution for normal users
<Tetracomm> Ok.
<Tetracomm> sebner: Is there a method which isn't too complicated for the creation of Debian packages?
<sebner> !packaging | Tetracomm
<ubottu> Tetracomm: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<karooga> !backports | karooga
<ubottu> karooga, please see my private message
<Tetracomm> sebner: Isn't that very complicated?
<sebner> Tetracomm: with a little bit of motivation, asking here if you have problems .. no. this is the only way to create valid packages
<Tetracomm> Ok.
<pangloss> So, is anyone working on Gnome bugs in 8.10?
<ajmitch> pangloss: given that gnome is in main, it's not our area
<Laney> pangloss: #ubuntu-desktop is what you want
<Laney> or gnome upstream, ofc
<pangloss> ajmitch =/ im having window redraw issues, makes the top of the window unreadable..
<pangloss> time to go kde?
<pangloss> hah
 * ajmitch wouldn't expect too many people to be around at this hour
<ajmitch> you've filed a bug about it?
<ajmitch> tried with & without desktop effects?
<karooga> is it appropriate to change the title of an old bug (LP: 242668) so that it has '[needs packaging] package'?
<jdong> pangloss: have a nvidia card?
<pangloss> ajmitch im actually searching launchpad now to see if someone's files a bug
<karooga> I see it has already been triaged (but it was not changed).
<ajmitch> karooga: if you're going to do that, make sure it has the right tag as well
<ajmitch> afaik tags are still being used to find those bugs
<pangloss> jdong yes nvidea
<jdong> pangloss: consider if it's bug 186382
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 186382 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-177 "[nvidia 169.xx] gtk window decorator somtimes draws decoration ugly or not at all" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186382
<karooga> ajmitch: what would the tag be?
<ajmitch> karooga: needs-packaging
<jdong> pangloss: not a GNOME bug, but an nvidia proprietary driver bug
<pangloss> >.<\
<pangloss> didn't do it in 8.04
<jdong> pangloss: yes, new revision of nvidia driver in 8.10
<pangloss> ah
<jdong> pangloss: the old one is incompatible with the new xorg-server-1.5.0
<jdong> pangloss: nvidia engineers said at nvnews.net that they are aware of the problem and are investigating internally
<jdong> pangloss: I'm afraid there's not much we can do but keep an eye for developments
<pangloss> jdong thanks for the info =)
<jdong> sure thing
<gouki> ls
<pangloss> jdong, think I should use free driver until then?
<gouki> ooopss, sorry.
<karooga> ajmitch: apparently the tag "has now been used before"?  is this normal LP behaviour?
<jdong> pangloss: AFAIK the free driver doesn't do Compiz desktop effects to begin with
<karooga> ajmitch: s/now/not/
<RainCT> karooga: you've misstyped it then
<jdong> pangloss: as long as you disable desktop effects this problem shouldn't present itself
<pangloss> jdong: AFAIK is the default when you install right?
<jdong> pangloss: that's correct
<pangloss> jdong, ok then, disabled effects till then
<karooga> RainCT: I have? "needs packaging"?
<RainCT> karooga: it's needs-packaging
<karooga> RainCT: weird, that's what I thought i said...?
<ajmitch> missing hyphen
<ajmitch> in case your irc client has a funny font that doesn't display it :)
<karooga> ajmitch: yup, i did have have the hyphen.  If the bug title has "[needs packaging] some_pkg", does the tag also have "needs packaging"?  (or needs-packaging in this case?)
<ajmitch> not sure, I haven't looked at many of those bugs
<gouki> Where on control can I add suggested packages?
<ajmitch> I think in this specific case, the bug hasn't been filed against ubuntu
<ajmitch> so it needs to be marked as being against ubuntu, not just the upstream project
 * ajmitch didn't notice that when looking at it before
 * karooga thinks he needs packaging time with his pillow, lights out and computer off.
<karooga> ajmitch: think i'll file a new bug then
<gouki> If one needs the package libssl0.9.8, it would be libssl (>=0.9.8) on the control file, right?
<ajmitch> having a build-dependency on libssl-dev & debian/rules doing the right thing would put that in there
<jdong> unless there is a really really really good reason why you need a particular version :)
<ajmitch> yay, mjg59 blogging again :)
<ScottK> ajmitch: Yeah.  Great post that one.
<ajmitch> sad to see how things just haven't improved
<gouki> ajmitch and jdong, thank you.
<jdong> what on earth is it with everyone starting new forums this month?
<karooga> RainCT / Laney / ajmitch: shots for the help today.  Lights out time for me. cheers
 * jdong takes an aggression inhibitor pill
<ajmitch> jdong: it's the cool thing to do
 * ajmitch hands jdong a copy of ultamatix to play with
<jdong> ajmitch: do... I even want to know what that is?
<ajmitch> oh you haven't read that wonderful dissection of it?
<ajmitch> http://mjg59.livejournal.com/99905.html
<leonox> ï»¿how can i public an ubuntu package in a repository?
<jdong> ajmitch: my eyes are bleeding already on the 3rd bullet.
<leonox> I mean once that i have made a package... where do I upload it?, so that the other people can use apt-get to install it
<ajmitch> one of the easiest ways for that is to upload to a PPA on launchpad, or to some other hosted service
<RainCT> ajmitch: (/me was away.. it's "[needs-packaging]" in the title and the tag is "needs-packaging" too)
<RainCT> unless we switch to wnpp :)
<ajmitch> RainCT: right, in this case I didn't notice that the bug was only against an upstream project on LP
<ajmitch> time to try & hunt for a new laptop that won't suck with ubuntu
 * ajmitch spots a TheMuso 
<wgrant> ajmitch: Tell me if you find one on this side of the world, please.
<ajmitch> wgrant: the problem is that it's awfully hard to tell just from the manufacturer specs provided
<wgrant> Indeed.
<wgrant> And getting a reasonable one without the Windows tax is difficult.
<ajmitch> on top of that, I need to find a decent ISP
 * ajmitch is about 500MB from being capped for 2 weeks at home
<wgrant> ajmitch: Hey, I lived reasonably badly on 1GB per month until 18 months ago.
<wgrant> You should know that there are no decent ISPs down here.
<ajmitch> I have no idea how you could manage that
<wgrant> Neither.
<wgrant> But parents wouldn't have it any other way.
<ajmitch> of course not :)
<ajmitch> my parents are still on dialup at home
<jrib> Hi, I was thinking of packaging revoco, but I see a debian ITP.  However, after reading http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=406377 , should I bother trying to package it for ubuntu?  Are the copyright requirements less stringent in ubuntu, or is a revoco package likely to get rejected for the same reasons as in debian?
<ubottu> Debian bug 406377 in wnpp "ITP: revoco -- control Logitech's MX-Revolution mouse" [Wishlist,Open]
 * ajmitch looks around for an ftp master
<ScottK> Depends on exactly why it got rejected.
<ajmitch> copyright policies are generally pretty similar, though that doesn't say anything about the reason for rejection
<jrib> "Written November 2006 by E. Toernig's bonobo - no copyrights.
<jrib> " that's the copyright in the source and the author is apparently unwilling to change it.  He states in a personal email, that it could be considered public domain
<jrib> my question is whether that will be an issue.  From the last comment in the bug report, I see the copyright as the reason it was rejected
<jrib> I guess I can just try and see what happens :)
<ajmitch> we're not going to be able to give a definitive answer either way
<ScottK> jrib: Does the source indicate any kind of license?
<jrib> ScottK: nope, that quote is the only non-programming line in the tarball (and the author's email)
<jrib> I suppose, if I contact him and it's public domain, I could release it and just add GPL right?
<wgrant> I will be rejected.
<wgrant> *It
<jrib> wgrant: referring to the original or with the addition of GPL?
<wgrant> I would suggest rejection unless the upstream tarball has the GPL licenses.
<wgrant> It doesn't seem to make sense for the license to be added downstream.
<ScottK> jrib: In some countries it's essentially impossible to for something to be created in the public domain.
<wgrant> Germany is one, isn't it?
 * ajmitch detests copyright issues
<RainCT> jrib: ask him to release it under the ISC License or something
<RainCT> (him = upstream)
<ScottK> jrib: Maybe you could convince him to license it under http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/
<ScottK> That will, in fact, be enough.
<jrib> ScottK: heh, are there any packages in ubuntu with that license?
<ScottK> I'm pretty sure I remember hitting one at one point.  I don't recall which.
<jrib> okay, so my first step will be to contact the author.  Thanks ScottK, RainCT, wgrant, and ajmitch
<ScottK> jrib: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000833.html seems like a decent overview.
<RainCT> wgrant: Oh, I didn't know that there's an ubuntu-directory team.. Prepare to be annoyed with question :D
<wgrant> RainCT: There isn't, really. We do approximately nothing, other than get spammed with Samba bugs.
<ajmitch> it's terribly exciting
<RainCT> lol
<ajmitch> what questions do you plan to ask anyway?
<ScottK> RainCT: I think you should go ahead and do your proposed REVU cleaning, just be sure to include a nice note about resetting the queue and update your packages for Jaunty.
<RainCT> ScottK: sure, but I'll wait some more time for people to complain to ignore them all then :)
<RainCT> ajmitch: well.. dunno xD
<ScottK> RainCT: I think a nice comment is the only real resolution to the whining.
<ScottK> RainCT: Otherwise do nothing and then I'll look at REVU, see the list, and throw up my hands and find something else to spend my time on.
<ajmitch> cleaning up while it's being discussed on the mailing list isn't too helpful though
<ScottK> ajmitch: I don't feel the discussion is particularly productive.
<ScottK> It seems a lot of 'don't do that' but no decent alternatives
<ScottK> Agreed that there's no huge rush though.
<RainCT> ScottK: And then, I really don't undersand why there's people against the proposal but then say "archive everything every cycle", which is even harder o.O
<ajmitch> you've always been one who wants due process with making changes
<ScottK> ajmitch: For MOTU policy sure.  I don't think that applies here.  RainCT is the REVU coordinator and I'm glad to let him do it.
<RainCT> but I'm going to wait a bit more before I do anything, let's see if the discussion leads anywhere
 * NCommander wakes up
<geser> RainCT: do you really believe you will see a usable result?
<NCommander> What about REVU?
<RainCT> geser: not really, but well.. who knows? :)
<geser> NCommander: check your mails
 * Hobbsee wonders about a week allocated to reviewing revu, starting now (or last week)
<Hobbsee> seeing as people have nothing to upload atm anyway
<Hobbsee> and should probably wait for important main stuff to come thru.
 * wgrant wonders about a week running TRUNCATE upload;
<geser> Hobbsee: I hope you have some spare whips handy already
<Hobbsee> geser: to get people to do it?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee always has whips at hand
<Hobbsee> geser: i could try - but i don't do it myself much, so....
<NCommander> I personally think anything sitll targetting intrepid should be nuked
<NCommander> we have a huge signal/noise rational on REVU
<Hobbsee> NCommander: the bigger problem is that the MOTU can't/doesn't process the signal regardless - perhaps due to the noise
<Hobbsee> NCommander: but a lot of the signal becomes noise, due to the lack of reviews being done by the MOTU.
<NCommander> Agreed
<NCommander> But there are times packages in the Needs Work category have been there for awhile
<NCommander> We only zap packages after they've been there for a few months
<Hobbsee> I do think that new contributors posting on REVU is a complete waste of time.
<NCommander> Hobbsee, ?
<RainCT> NCommander: I'll add automatic archiving for stuff without comments since 6 months or something like that (most of the code is already there)
<ajmitch> so noone really has any ideas for encouraging MOTUs to review stuff, since it's not exactly a fun job by any means
<NCommander> We could modify REVU to only support uploads from people who are UUC or greater, but there are people start off w/ packaging stuff
 * NCommander did that w/ codeblocks
<wgrant> Can we restrict to one new package per 10 other uploads or something?
<NCommander> Its tricky
<geser> I prefer if people start with fixing the current packages instead of creating new ones, so I'd be for limiting REVU for UUC (and greater) as I hope those people know how much work maintaining is and don't package everything they find on the internet
<NCommander> I can make the necessary changes to launchpad_login.py
<wgrant> geser: +infinity
<NCommander> But unless we have consensus on this from the MOTU community
<Hobbsee> Based on how people seem to be having a lot of trouble with PPAs, and getting packages to build (even substandard ones, which probably don't have correct fields, etc), it's clearly a very difficult task.
<NCommander> I'm unconfortable from the change
<NCommander> Well, we have a working PPA importer
<NCommander> (its actually on production, RainCT still hasn't finished cleaning up my daemon though)
<Hobbsee> it's far too high a barrier to entry, and hardly anyone will review a new packager's work anyway.
<NCommander> maybe we should restrict direct REVU uploads to UUC and greater
<Hobbsee> NCommander: now that might be a good idea....
<NCommander> But allow imports from anyone
<Hobbsee> bah.  why would that make any difference?
<NCommander> because you at least have a package that builds cleanly
<Hobbsee> oh, right, because it would actually have had to build somewhere.
<RainCT> NCommander: actually, it's finished
 * NCommander hugs RainCT 
<RainCT> it's just missing a check to only accept packages that have build correctly
<Hobbsee> NCommander: that's probably one of the best ideas i've heard all day, in conjunction with RainCT's documentation stuff last night.
<RainCT> which should be quite easy to add..
<NCommander> RainCT, there was one ...
<RainCT> NCommander: the text on the pages mentions it, but it wasn't actually implemented, or?
<NCommander> SO launchpad_login.py would only sync keys for UUC or greater
<NCommander> I thought I implemented it
<NCommander> It might not have actually gotten committed because my last commit never got pushed
<NCommander> So we need to modify launchpad_login to import a GPG key to the REVU keyring if your a UUC (or how about just Ubuntu member)
 * NCommander notes that means resetting the keyring again ...
<Hobbsee> NCommander: because ubuntu members aren't necessarily clueful, w.r.t. packaging.
<NCommander> Fair enough
<geser> someone coming from e.g. LoCo has still no clue about packaging and how much work is it to keep a package up-to-date
<NCommander> So UUC for direct uploads?
<Hobbsee> UUC makes sense - they've been known to put good packaging stuff forwards.
<NCommander> I've been wanting to propose changes for UUC
<NCommander> I think they should have the right to request syncs
 * ajmitch wonders if he's indirectly in UUC
<Hobbsee> NCommander: CC the list on your suggestion about it, but i suspect you've found a winner, at least.
<NCommander> Hobbsee, which suggestion
<Hobbsee> NCommander: htat's been discussed a few times before, and the answer has been a resounding "no".
<RainCT> NCommander: a sync is potentially as harmful as a normal upload, if not more
<Hobbsee> NCommander: the one about REVU and UUC.
<Hobbsee> RainCT: it is more - it's often gettign rid of existing changes.
<RainCT> yeh
<ajmitch> and we've seen what happens when people request many, many untested syncs
 * Hobbsee twitches and shudders
<wgrant> Heh heh heh.
<NCommander> Ok, fair enough
 * NCommander would think a UUC would be experienced enough though to say that
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i think he's on brainstorm, you know.  Just in case you wanted to go say hello.
<ajmitch> yes, well
 * ajmitch wasn't naming any names, of course
<Hobbsee> no, of course not
<RainCT> NCommander: not necessarily. u-u-c applications don't look at technical skills
<ajmitch> NCommander: you'd have to make it that MOTU could upload as well, there's no team association that I can see at the moment
<RainCT> ajmitch: ubuntu-dev rather
<ajmitch> either one
<ajmitch> whatever works properly
 * NCommander grumbles
<NCommander> Figuring out if someone in a team is already a huge headache
<RainCT> but I thought ubuntu-dev is in u-u-c
<NCommander> RainCT, nope
<Hobbsee> NCommander: api doesn't support that yet?
<NCommander> LauncpadLogin doesn't use it
<NCommander> Yet
<NCommander> I was thinking RDF parsing
<ajmitch> RainCT: it could be changed to do that, if it doesn't cause any bugmail problems
<wgrant> Erm.
<wgrant> motu is a member of u-u-c, not ubuntu-dev.
<wgrant> That looks wrong.
<ajmitch> quite probably
<ajmitch> the teams are a bit of a mess
<RainCT> indeed
 * ajmitch is not really a motu :)
<RainCT> NCommander: are you sure? I thought that the launchpad api already allows to get a list of people in a team
<RainCT> and the teams a person is in
<NCommander> The RDF API we used when I wrote the inital login code didn't support it
<RainCT> NCommander: I mean the Python API
<RainCT> uhm.. Kasper's mail has just remembered me about some stuff I was thinking about a while before
<RainCT> which is, getting Debian into REVU :P
<NCommander> o_o?
<ajmitch> RainCT: what, and why?
<RainCT> that'd be, have a "I'm interested in maintaining this package in Debian." option on REVU, and have a team of "Friendly DD's" who'd care about assisting such people with getting the package into Debian
<ajmitch> given how difficult it is to get MOTUs to review, how do you plan to coerce DDs?
<RainCT> (the idea is still rather unclear.. I though about it before while I was showering :P)
<ajmitch> ah, one of *those* ideas :)
<wgrant> How about telling people that there are much better things to do than make new packages?
<ajmitch> intrepid was released with a bug-free universe, wasn't it?
<RainCT> the packages on REVU will be likely to have already been reviewed by MOTUs so should be in rather good shape. and perhaps we could get the utnubu guys to give their thoughts about this
<wgrant> ajmitch: Definitely.
<wgrant> What Utnubu guys?
<RainCT> ajmitch: of course. what are bugs even?
<RainCT> well, there was an utnubu team.. not sure if it's still alive
<RainCT> (probably not)
<wgrant> RainCT: It is alive in the same sense as ubuntu-directory.
<ScottK> wgrant: I think a different sense and I think it largely did what it was meant to do.
<RainCT> NCommander: will you raise the "u-c-d only" topic?
<ajmitch> that reminds me of what I was going to write - get an overview list of stuff that should get back to debian
<RainCT> hm.. perhaps we should discuss it this Friday
<RainCT> on the ML it would just result in a flame :P
 * ajmitch hasn't exactly seen any flames on the list
<RainCT> (on IRC probably too, but well.. wasn't IRC created to have flames on it? :D)
<ajmitch> no
<RainCT> ajmitch: </jk> ;)
<ajmitch> we try & keep things flame-free, rather than calling people retarded idiots for even dreaming up the idea
<ajmitch> it's much better to call ideas stupid, rather than people :)
<RainCT> when did I/we/anyone say that someone is a retarded idiot o.O
 * ajmitch will be back to flame^Wcorrect after lunch
<RainCT> (beside the creator of anything ending with *matix :D)
<RainCT> ajmitch: enjoy your meal? (where do you live, btw?)
<RainCT> now that's called an efficient ML http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/utnubu-discuss/
 * NCommander reinstalls REVU on 127.0.0.1
<NCommander> Utnubu isn't dead?
<RainCT> NCommander: of course not!! there's one thread per month on the ML!
<RainCT> :P
<NCommander> Second question
<RainCT> s/meal?/meal/
<NCommander> Should we give UUC the ability to +1 on Ubuntu? (aka, one MOTU and one UUC would be good enough to qualify for upload of a package)
<NCommander> s/Ubuntu/REVU/g
<RainCT> -1
<wgrant> I hope not.
<NCommander> I agree, but I figure it was worth asking
<RainCT> i'm wondering, what would you think about having a "package of a day" (having a wiki page where contributors could add themselves to say "I'll be available day X to be fix any problems with my package" and then during that day we aim to get the package into Ubuntu)?
<RainCT> (yeah.. also a shower idea :P)
<nhandler_> RainCT: It sounds similar to the hug days that we hold
<Hobbsee> but those have tended to be kinda effective.
<Hobbsee> well, as effective as stuff like five-a-day and such is
<RainCT> yeah.. revu integration into five-a-day is something I considered yesterday XD
<wgrant> 5-rejections-a-day?
<Hobbsee> it would be 5 comments a day, surely :P
<RainCT> Hobbsee: right
<RainCT> but I still have to reconsider this at the next shower
<RainCT> as well as revu integration into ubottu :P
<RainCT> (well, I'm unlikely to pursue this last idea unless someone wants it)
<RainCT> well, I'm off for today. good night
<ScottK> NCommander: I also think the 'only UCD can upload to REVU' idea is a policy change thought ought to be agreed to my MOTU in general.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: which would be why it's now on the list, no?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: OK, but that's not a "OK, go do that".  That's something we need to seriously discuss (unlike the rest of the discussion).
<ScottK> I think if RainCT had wanted to just clear the queue without discussion, as REVU coordinator that'd have been fine.
<NCommander> ScottK, well, I proposed the idea
<NCommander> ScottK, I think that's a given, but we get a tremendous amounts of uploads to REVU ...
<ScottK> I can see it has merit, "No cookie for you until you prove yourself."
<NCommander> It also means UDC also actually means something w.r.t to privelleges give
<NCommander> *given
 * ScottK loves the new wiki.ubuntu.com
<wgrant> ScottK: Haha, indeed.
<ajmitch> oh that person deserves talking to :)
 * wgrant reverts.
<ajmitch> spoilsport
<Laney> too late :P
<wgrant> Bah.
<wgrant> I was trying to revert, and it was complaining that I hadn't changed the page content. That was rather confusing.
 * ajmitch wonders why it says immutable page
<Laney> ajmitch: Not when logged in
<ajmitch> that's one page that probably shouldn't be changed even by random logged-in people
<wgrant> I thought it was restricted.
<Laney> Anyone got a link to that nice graphic of all releases and how long they will be supported for?
<Laney> it was a Canonical marketing one, AFAIK
<james_w> Laney: http://blog.canonical.com/?p=15
<Laney> james_w: Winner
 * ajmitch spots a suggestion on brainstorm for jaunty to be feature complete by alpha 1
<TheMuso> If we decided to have no new features, sure. :)
<TheMuso> and if GNOME decided to sit out a cycle. :)
<ajmitch> oh no, there's a list of required features by alpha 1 ;)
<ajmitch> including linux 2.6.28
<wgrant> But we can't stop it.
<wgrant> Didn't you see it? It forbids us from demoting it.
<wgrant> The thing is, there's no good way to close that sort of thing.
<wgrant> Perhaps Won't Implement.
<pangloss> Anyone have a second to help me with a problem I am having in one of the packaging guide tutorials?
<wgrant> But 'WTF - go away' is more appropriate.
<Laney> pangloss: Ask away
<pangloss> Laney: in here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<pangloss> laney @ step 4
<ajmitch> wgrant: it's just a misunderstanding that feature development & integration does actually require some work
<pangloss> Laney:I do not have a brasero-0.5.2/ folder
<Laney> pangloss: What messages did you get after the dpkg -x line?
<nhandler> pangloss: Do 'dpkg-source -x brasero_0.5.2-0ubuntu1.dsc'
<pangloss> Laney: there is no dpkg line, but there is dget line
<Laney> I was getting to that ;)
<Laney> dget, yes
<Laney> I guess it just failed to verify the key and then died extracting there
<Laney> it should probably be dget -xu
<pangloss> Laney nhandler yes I never did a dplg
<pangloss> dpkg*
<Laney> I meant dget :(
<pangloss> =(
<pangloss> so dpkg-source -x brasero_0.5.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<pangloss> ?
<Laney> yep
<nhandler> Yes pangloss
<nhandler> That should give you the brasero-0.5.2 directory
<pangloss> Thanks guys =)
<nhandler> You're welcome pangloss
<Laney> there, I updated the options
<Laney> Thanks for the pointer pangloss
<pangloss> Laney, updated the options?
<Laney> on the wiki
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-26
<ScottK> Laney: OK.  I'm game.  Accepted.  Please keep an eye on it and make sure it builds.
<porthose> ScottK, ping bug #460779 #460720, if you need anything else leave a comment on the bug, going to bed :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460779 in libpam-blue "Sync libpam-blue 0.9.0-2.3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460779
<ScottK> porthose|afk: Nice.  Thanks.
<ScottK> .away
<hedkandi> hello anyone at home?
<hedkandi> I'm just putting a package together for revu
<hedkandi> and so do I need to write an installation bit in the makefile?
<hedkandi> dh_make is saying something along those lines
<hedkandi> $DESTDIR not ./
<ScottK> hedkandi: Those of us who are here are pretty much focused on last minute bug fixing, so don't be suprised if you don't get an answer today.  Next week will be better.
<hedkandi> indeed.
<hedkandi> when is the big day then?
<ScottK> Thursday is the release.  Last day for non-emergency uploads is tomorrow.
<hedkandi> Are you guys in your offices in the usa?
<hedkandi> working for canonical?
<JontheEchidna> All of us here are mainly volunteers, scattered across both Europe and the USA
<hedkandi> I see. Which magazine will publish intrepid ibex first then?
<ScottK> Intrepid was released a year ago.
<hedkandi> koala
<hedkandi> kola koala
<hedkandi> karmic kocaine
<hedkandi> is what I mean
<ScottK> porthose|afk: Nice job.  Two for two uploaded and accepted.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
 * ScottK notes he is fresh out of stuff to review for acceptance.
<zooko> Folks: what are the commands to fetch the source, patch it, and build it in the same way that ubuntu builds it?
<zooko> I'm narrowing down a segfault in a crypto lib on Karmic.
<ScottK> zooko: apt-get source <packagename> to get the source
<zooko> Right.  Adding sources to my sources.list now...
<ScottK> Patching depends on what patch system, if any, the package uses.
<ScottK> To build it, you'll want to build in a clean environment, such as pbuilder
<zooko> So running apt-get source has a step where it says it applied a diff.  I think that's the "patching" that I meant.
<ScottK> OK.
<wrapster> all of a sudden im getting an error saying that libc.so.1 is not found.. even while compiling for 32bit ..anyone know why?
<wrapster> it was working fine all the wile.
<AnAnt> ScottK: do you read the NM Reports ?
<ScottK> AnAnt: Yes.
<ScottK> AnAnt: Did you see I uploaded your sabily artwork changes?
<AnAnt> ScottK: yes and bitlbee too I think, thanks a lot
<ScottK> Yes, that's right.
<ScottK> You're welcome and thank you for contributing to Ubuntu.
<AnAnt> ScottK: so, you stopped working on debian ?
<ScottK> AnAnt: No, took a break.  Working on it again now, but it hasn't gotten to the front desk to change my status yet.
<AnAnt> I see
<ScottK> YokoZar: Where is this pk7zip-full that spring-engine needs?
<zooko> p7zip-full package?
<ScottK> There isn't one, but his package build-depends on it.  That's the problem.
<zooko> Can I figure out exactly what version of g++ was used to build the libcrypto++-8 in karmic?
<zooko> Not pk7zip-full
<zooko> p7zip-full
<ScottK> zooko: It'll be 4.4, probably 4.4.1.
<ScottK> zooko: Thanks.
<ScottK> Now lets see if it was his typo or mine.
<zooko> So, I can't reproduce this segfault with the libcrypto++-8 from karmic, but I can reproduce it by building the upstream Crypto++ with the current karmic g++ 4.4.1-4ubuntu8.
<zooko> So I'd like to know more exactly what g++ was used to build the one that is currently in karmic.
<ScottK> Look at when it was built and what version of gcc-4.4 was current at the time.
<zooko> Okay thanks.  It is named p7zip-full btw
<ScottK> Thanks
<wrapster> can anyone look into this weird issue pls
<zooko> Hm, how do I learn when libcrypto++-8 was built and how do I learn what version of gcc 4.4 was in use at that time?
<zooko> I know when it was changed from the changelog: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/libc/libcrypto++/libcrypto++_5.6.0-3/changelog
<AnAnt> btw, good news, we can sync (instead of merge) texlive from now on, they have the same changes now
<zooko> But I don't know when it was built.
<ScottK> zooko: Launchpad's down for maintenance for 3 1/2 hours, but when it comes back you can find it there.
<zooko> Aha!  The pbuild automatically runs the test suite!  Great!
<zooko> *and* it fails in the same way that I've been seeing.
<zooko> So there is a regression in the toolchain, maybe, since it was built.
<zooko> I *think* this isn't really critical, as long as it doesn't get rebuilt before karmic goes gold.
<zooko> But it would, of course, be good to know what's going on.
<zooko> To reprodce: just rebuild libcrypto++-8.
<micahg> I thought it was only supposed to be down for a half hour
<zooko> (I did using pbuilder)
<zooko> N.B. I've been saying "segfault" all this time, but Crypto++'s own self-tests don't seg fault, but instead they go into an infinite loop in the SHA or SHA-256 validation tets.
<zooko> Well I need to get to sleep, but I guess I'll open a bug... launchpad's down?
<zooko> Okay, I need to get some shuteye.  By for now.
<YokoZar> ScottK: It's a build dep (the build system makes a few .7z archives of its content and renames them)
<YokoZar> ScottK: oh god I misspelled it it's p7zip-full lol
<YokoZar> I have no idea why dpkg-buildpackage didn't complain when I test built that
<YokoZar> ScottK: reject it, I'll reupload
<zooko> ScottK: any advice for me on pursuing this issue in libcrypto++8 and/or g++ tomorrow?
<zooko> I would like to draw it to the attention of the relevant devs, perhaps after generating a minimal test case.
<zooko> I'm concerned because Tahoe-LAFS depends on libcrypto++8
<zooko> I think I might fall sleep soon...
<ScottK> YokoZar: You need to do an ubuntu2 as it's already accepted when you uploaded it.
<ScottK> zooko: Let's chat tomorrow.
<micahg> ScottK: apparently, the new prism prevents usage of old files created with prism
<micahg> I have an idea for a fix
<micahg> when's the cutoff for non-emergency fixes?
<wrapster> while building for 64bit im getting this error. http://pastie.org/669680
<wrapster> im very sure im running on a 64bit machine...
<wrapster> but the checking host-- and target systems are defined as i386 so its causing errros..
<wrapster> would like to know how i can change it?
<maco> the machine may be 64bit, but is the OS?
<maco> solaris?
<wrapster> maco: its nexenta
<wrapster> and yes the OS is 64bit
<maco> sol kernel + ubu userspace?
<wrapster> yes
<wrapster> since it was a pkging que im asking..
<wrapster> a total newbie here .. pls help
<maco> sounds like solaris kernel's reporting wrong...
<wrapster> isainfo --> amd64 i386
<wrapster> is there a way I can override it?
<maco> dunno
<wrapster> but the surprising thing is.. on this machine i've already compiled it for 64bit a lot of times
<wrapster> its now that its cribbing!!
<wrapster> maco: if i chaange anything in anyother file apart from the rules file.. I get this http://pastie.org/669690
<wrapster> but i do not know how to refresh it ..
<wrapster> could you please help me
<wrapster> how to refresh that patch
<maco> i dont see what change
<wrapster> i went into the configure script and added --enable-64bit.
<wrapster> then when i try building i get this.
<slytherin> Are bug fix uploads still allowed in universe?
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, according to last ScottK email, yes, with the ack of a motu-release "Bug fixes that are minimally risky or fix serious bugs (such as FTBFS) are still welcomed"
<slytherin> Ok. Mine is minimally risky and probably also fixes serious bug in the package. :-)
<wrapster> got it.. it was a bloody mistake of not including clean while configuring for 64
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> good morning dholbach !
<dholbach> hi fabrice_sp
<wrapster> maco: i kinda got upto the stage where a copy is made of the genearted 32bit .so files and ran the configure for 64 bit  also successfully.. But now i got toatally confused in linking up the rules so that the same is created for 64bit as well..
<wrapster> Could you please help.
<wrapster> maco: http://pastie.org/669690
<wrapster> anyone who can help me?
<slytherin> wrapster: what are ou trying to do exactly?
<wrapster> slytherin: im trying to generate 32/64 bit version of libnspr(and others).so from the same pkg...
<wrapster> I have gotten this far.. One moment.. i'll do a latest pastie
<slytherin> wrapster: why, don't existing packages work for you?
<wrapster> slytherin: long story cut short, its actually a prerequisite for something else that we are doing.. I cannot discuss that unfortunately.
<slytherin> Ok. So where are you stuck now?
<wrapster> slytherin: http://pastie.org/669690
<wrapster> thats the entire pastie...
<slytherin> wrapster: I have seen that, what I am asking is at what stage are you stuck?
<wrapster> slytherin: http://pastie.org/669680
<wrapster> thats where Im stuck.
<wrapster> the pkg build comes along cleanly but I dont see the staging dir being created or any of the *.so files within it ,in 64bit versions.
<wrapster> I must be missing the logic that it directly goes to shlibdeps, after make, without running the cc -m64 <whatever>
<wrapster> slytherin: this will give you a better picture http://pastie.org/669723
<wrapster> its the complete log for 64bit build
<slytherin> wrapster: I believe the prefix (in configure command) is wrong
<slytherin> It should be debian/ IIRC.
<wrapster> IIRC ?
<wrapster> slytherin: for the 46 bit configure u mean?
<wrapster> slytherin: could you please explain?
<slytherin> IIRC is - If I remember correctly. I was referring to line 37 http://pastie.org/669690
<wrapster> slytherin: no thats correct only. if your talking about indentation then it was messed up with the pastie... thats all
<slytherin> I was talking about the value. Shouldn't it be debian/usr instead of /usr? I haven't packaged any C app/lib in a while so I may be wrong.
<azeem> slytherin: no, the --prefix must be /usr
<azeem> line 88 makes sure the package is properly installed in debian/tmp
<wrapster> that didnt make a change... as i already said.. When i compiled it as an individual pkg(only as a 64bit pkg) it all worked fine.
<wrapster> this i386+amd64 thing all in one is causing issues.. Im doubting my logic here.. but got really confused looking around .. so pls help
<azeem> line 4 in the second paste might be wrong; AFAIK dh_shlibdeps takes -l arguments relative to $(CURDIR)
<azeem> or at least expects them
<wrapster> azeem: i dont think so, coz it worked fine for 32 bit when i had written it the same way, and also while compiling the 64bit individually.
<wrapster> if you look at http://pastie.org/669723 as soon as the ./configure has done its job its jumping to dh_shlibdeps without running the cc -<options> thats why i said my logic could be worng but now im confused totally
<azeem> I don't know what the issue is anyway, I arrived here mid-conversation
<azeem> what is the thing after line 139 in http://pastie.org/669690 anyway?
<azeem> wrapster: and why do you think it should run some "cc -<options>"?  I don't see a build_64 rule or anything like that
<wrapster> azeem: thats a sad pastie.. something went wrong.. one moment...pls
<wrapster> azeem: i dont know from wher its coming... before pastie it is nto there ...after i hit submit this pops up
<azeem> 09:28 < azeem> wrapster: and why do you think it should run some "cc -<options>"?  I don't see a build_64 rule or anything like that
<wrapster> azeem: buil_64 is not there coz im directly calilng build-stamp
<wrapster> tahs the one right
<azeem> the one right?
<wrapster> yeah...
<wrapster> install-stamp calls the buil-stamp twice
<azeem> I didn't understand what you mean with "the one right"
<azeem> no
<azeem> it has the build-stamp rule as requirement
<azeem> if the "build-stamp" file already exists at the second time, the requirement is fulfilled and the rule will not be run
<wrapster> oh sorry
<wrapster> didnt think of that.
<azeem> the clean way to do this would be to have two build directories, and build/install in both, each as a requirement for build-stamp
<azeem> like (mkdir build-32; cd build-32; $(CFLAGS32) ../configure; make)
<azeem> (mkdir build-64; cd build-64; $(CFLAGS64) ../configure; make)
<wrapster> azeem: all of these that you said can be written as a single rule right.. instead of making more and more dependencies?
<azeem> if you prefer
<azeem> that makes it harder to just build one or other other, though
<wrapster> ok from what i've already written could you help me make it clean.pls
<azeem> no, I don't have time right now
<wrapster> ok
<wrapster> slytherin: could i take your help pls?
<slytherin> wrapster: regarding what?
<wrapster> slytherin: the build comes through successfully, i can create a backup of the 32bit files ,i can also see that the staging dir has 64bit files but its not being put under /usr/lib
<wrapster> under the same rules file.
<slytherin> hmm, can't help much. I usually work on java packages. :-(
<wrapster> hmm
<wrapster> ok thanks anyway.
<wrapster> geser: are you around :)
<geser> yes
<wrapster> geser: one moment pls..
<wrapster> i'll finish the build
<wrapster> geser: ok so here is the update .. individually i can build the 64bit versions but im not suppose to do so.. So i tried integrating both and this is what i could come up with http://pastie.org/669815
<wrapster> geser: I have a backup that will be created of the 32bit ones but when the rules file builds for 64bit , the 64bit (*.so) files are created in the staging dir no doubt(debian/tmp) but they are not transferred to the debian/libnspr4-0d
<wrapster> where they should actually reiside...
<wrapster> essentially what i want to say is debian/libnspr4-0d is missing most of the contents of the staging dir (debian/tmp) when the 64bit version is built.. for the 32bit one tehre is no problem... Again im guessing my logic could be worng.. or the way im placing the dependecies could be worng.. Could you pls help...
<geser> can you pastebin debian/libnspr4-0d.install (if it exists and I guess the filename right)?
<wrapster> yeah
<wrapster> geser: here is a pastie that will explain my problem very well..http://pastie.org/669823
<wrapster> geser: the file exists and it only had 2 contents...
<wrapster> usr/lib/*.so.0d
<wrapster> usr/lib/*.so
<azeem> wrapster: how do you make sure the 32bit and 64bit *.so are differently named?
<azeem> do you put them in different directories?
<wrapster> yes.
<azeem> which are?
<geser> wrapster: like I assumed. The .install files controll which files get moved over from debian/tmp to debian/$pkgname (from where the deb is build)
<wrapster> pls look at this http://pastie.org/669815 line no 75
<wrapster> the copy_32 rule, will actually copy out all the *.so files to a named dir for future replacement..
<azeem> wrapster: and then those get copied back to debian/libnspr4-0d/usr/lib in line 103
<azeem> probably overwriting the 64bit files
<wrapster> azeem: no
<wrapster> they are acutally not being copied for some reason.
<geser> wrapster: so debian/tmp contains both the 32bit libs and 64bit ones correctly? the first ones in debian/tmp/usr/lib and the second ones in debian/tmp/usr/lib/amd64?
<azeem> wrapster: did you check the content of bkup_32?
<azeem> cp debian/tmp/usr/lib/*.0d bkup_32
<azeem> this might just copy over a symlink
<wrapster> azeem: yes the bkup_32 only has 32bit files
<wrapster> and within the debian/tmp dir
<azeem> ok
<geser> azeem: I assume it's just the install file telling to move the 32bit libs into the package
<wrapster> there is no lib/amd64 being created .. (coz ive not mentioned it...)
<wrapster> however the files will be created in debian/tmp/usr/lib only but these will be 64bit
<wrapster> im very sure and i ran a check on this to clarify...
<wrapster> so the summary being... I have the 32bits in bkup_32 and 64bits in debain/tmp/usr/lib at the end of my build.
<wrapster> but there is nothing in debian/libnspr4-0d dir :(
<azeem> sorry, but I'm not interested in debugging your rules
<wrapster> azeem: / geser : http://pastie.org/669829 this is the o/p at the end of my build.
<wrapster> azeem: ok np.. thanks for you help
<wrapster> geser: could you pls help me..
<azeem> wrapster: also note that people will probably mock Nexenta if you push this into a release like this
<azeem> it's really ugly
<cbx33> hey motu peeps
<cbx33> anyone using the bluetooth networking in karmic?
<Laney> gah
<geser> wrapster: I assume that "install-stamp-64" installs the libs also to debian/tmp/usr/lib and overwriting your backup from line 103. Try moving the 64bit libs to the correct location (after you installed them) and only then copy back the 32bit libs
<Laney> dh_haskell_configure doesn't support passing arbitrary flags through
<Laney> I fear I'll have to leave hsh for karmic
<wrapster> geser: ok
<wrapster> geser: i want it to overwrite the 64bit libs coz by the time the 64bit processing will start I already have taken the backup of 32bit files...(in bkup_32) so i will definitely have it in tmp/usr/lib/ but if i can somehow reflect it in libnspr4-0d then i can do further copy and so on... but thats not happening.. thats my worry
<wrapster> geser: this is how the makefile logic i created works... build everything for 32bit until you reach dh_installdep -a (coz thats when the tmp dir having 32bit is created)--> then copy all these to bkup_32--->clean-->configure_64-->build64-->install
<azeem> did you verify that the build is actually going like this?
<wrapster> yes
<wrapster> azeem: and i think i resolved the issue one moment let me see..
<wrapster> azeem: no... :(
<wrapster> not working
<wrapster> azeem: / geser: yay yay
<wrapster> working.
<Laney> sigh
<sebner> huhu Laney
<Laney> hi there
<sebner> Laney: anything wrong?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I need armel to test a fix
<Laney> :(!
<Laney> (or sparc)
<hyperair> Laney: qemu?
<sebner> Laney: NCommander not around?
<Laney> hyperair: dunno how
<hyperair> Laney: manpage =0
<Laney> its unhelpful
<Laney> looks like hassle too
<Laney> I would very much like one of those PPAs that builds for everything
<dinxter> me too, armel, sparc, powerpc needed here:*(
<hyperair> well powerpc emulatable
<hyperair> but you can't debootstrap a powerpc chroot >_>
<hyperair> rather, even if you did, you'd end up having to figure out a way to install the powerpc kernel and bootloader
<dinxter> I'm sure I needed this before and did something, if only I could remember what.. old age
<slytherin> Laney: IIRC, revu is on sparc. So may be you can bribe revu admins for access to a chroot. :-P
<dinxter> all i need is a build check in pbuilder rather than anything more
<slytherin> Laney: Another solution is to bribe the MOTUs who are also DDs to test the fix bug for you. :-)
<Laney> slytherin: I thought of that one ;)
 * Laney looks at directhex 
<zooko> morning folks
<ScottK> Would someone that knows C please review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~simono/ubuntu/karmic/gnoemoe/fixes-bug-459164/+merge/13854
<joaopinto> ScottK, gint count = (strlen(no_ansi) - written); it could use just "len" no need to call strlen() again
<ScottK> joaopinto: Could you fix it and make a proper debbdiff?
<joaopinto> well, it's a very small improvement, doesn't worth a debdiff at this time, the code looks sane
<zooko> ScottK: something looks wrong to me.
<zooko> Suppose strlen(no_ansi) is 20 at the start.  written gets initialized to 0.  First pass of the loop, count  = 20
<zooko> suppose partial write, written = 5, then
<zooko> second pass of the loop, count = 15
<zooko> so far so good -- it invokes write(fd, no_ansi+5, 15)
<zooko> but if there is a second partial write, let's say this time written = 6
<zooko> so 3rd pass of the loop, count = 14
<joaopinto> oh written is not cumulative :\
<ScottK> OK.  Sounds like we should give it a pass for Karmic.  Maybe an SRU.
 * Laney is going to upload another armel/sparc fix, this time for darcs
<Laney> same caveats as before
<ScottK> OK.
<Teddy_> I need a sync from Debian to fix a security bug #457709.  Who should I poke?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457709 in mandos "mandos-client adds unnecessary files to initrd" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457709
<ScottK> Teddy_: You've come to the right place.
<zooko> ScottK: so, should we do anything about the fact that, on my machine at least, "pbuilder build libcrypto++_5.6.0-3.dsc" when it gets to the SHA validation suite and enters an infinite loop?
<zooko> I'm glad to see that the tests get run automatically as part of pbuilder, since that means if it fails then it will *not* be uploaded to ubuntu, right?
<ScottK> It should fail to build, yes.
<sistpoty|work> the patch for gnoemoe should probably replace the first do-loop with http://paste.ubuntu.com/302087/
<zooko> Oh yeah, I was going to figure out which version of gcc was used to build it.
<ScottK> Althought pbuilder and the buildd's are not identical.
<Teddy_> ScottK: Right then.
 * Teddy_ pokes the channel about bug #457709
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: simon-o is online, so maybe you could discuss it with him
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457709 in mandos "mandos-client adds unnecessary files to initrd" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457709
<ScottK> Teddy_: I'm looking at it.
<Teddy_> ScottK: Cool, thanks!
<sistpoty|work> simon-o: ^^?
<simon-o> sistpoty|work: yes
<sistpoty|work> simon-o: read the above discussion about your patch for gnomeoe?
<sistpoty|work> gnoemoe even
<simon-o> sistpoty|work: yes, ScottK attached it to the merge proposal
<zooko> Where is there a history of when packages were built and/or uploaded?
<ScottK> simon-o: sistpoty|work had an additional suggestion
<zooko> I'd like to understand if the difference between my pbuilt libcrypto++8 and the one in karmic is due to a slightly different version of g++.
<ScottK> zooko: In launchpad.  What's the source package name?
<simon-o> ScottK, sistpoty|work: Ok I see, you mean http://paste.ubuntu.com/302087/
<simon-o> ?
<sistpoty|work> yes, boils down to the same as in the compileflags wiki
<sistpoty|work> simon-o: of course it'd also be worthwhile to check if the file descriptor in question is opened non-blocking. if so EAGAIN is also a vaild error
<zooko> Source: libcrypto++
<zooko> and Source: gcc-4.4
<ScottK> zooko: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcrypto++/+publishinghistory
<ScottK> Similar for gcc-4.4
<simon-o> sistpoty|work: Is your patch for the updated version of my patch?
<zooko> hm.
<sistpoty|work> simon-o: yes it should replace the first do-loop
<sistpoty|work> simon-o: the recipe in the compilerflags wiki would also work though
<zooko> ok, how can i fetch the version of gcc that was used to build and see if building with that version yields a working libcrypto++?
<zooko> 4.4.1-3ubuntu3
<ScottK> zooko: What architecture?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<simon-o> sistpoty|work: I don't really get what you mean with ret. Where is that defined?
<zooko> ScottK: amd64
<ScottK> zooko: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.4/4.4.1-3ubuntu3/+build/1195506
<ScottK> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi ScottK
<ScottK> Teddy_: mandos sync'ed for Karmic.
<Teddy_> ScottK: Wonderful!
<Teddy_> ScottK: Thanks a lot.
<sistpoty|work> simon-o: oh, should be same as written... forgot to add that variable
<ScottK> Teddy_: The binaries are failing to upload due to a known launchpad bug.  I'll do a direct upload to work around it, so don't worry.
<Teddy_> ScottK: I was just wondering about that, thanks!
<sistpoty|work> (same type as written
<simon-o> sistpoty|work: ok, this makes sense. I don't really see a benefit of using a for loop (I personally like for more, but I tried to keep this as close to the recipe as possible to make it easier for reviewing)
<sistpoty|work> +)
<sistpoty|work> simon-o: I only learnt that the recipe exists after I pastebin'd my solution ;)
<gaspa> ScottK (or some m-r) : python-poppler-dbg is uninstallable, I'd like to upload a fixed revision.
<sistpoty|work> simon-o: either one should be fine
<ScottK> gaspa: Pastebin the diff please.
<simon-o> sistpoty|work: Ok, so would it be ok with you if I fix the my patch and use that one?
<gaspa> ScottK: yup, just a minute.
<sistpoty|work> simon-o: sure
<simon-o> sistpoty|work: ok, thanks for your help. I'll post a new diff soon.
<sistpoty|work> yw
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Do we care about 302003?
 * sistpoty|work looks
<ScottK> Thanks
 * sistpoty|work looks closer at mxml
<gaspa> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/302105/
<ScottK> gaspa: Go for it.
<gaspa> thank you
<simon-o> ScottK, joaopinto, zooko, sistpoty|work: I updated the merge proposal at https://code.launchpad.net/~simono/ubuntu/karmic/gnoemoe/fixes-bug-459164/+merge/13854 based on your feedback. Here is the proposed patch http://paste.ubuntu.com/302107/ (LP seems to has some problems)
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: no, we don't care for bug #302003, as the shared object is already linked against the pthread library, and hence will draw it in when getting loaded (the only thing to fix here would be to add @PTHREAD...@ to Libs.private)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 302003 in mxml "PTHREAD typo in .pc file" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/302003
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Thanks.
 * sistpoty|work adds a comment to the bug
<joaopinto> simon-o, it's still faulty, you can't use the cumulative value to exit the loop, that one needs to be based on the last write( return value
<joaopinto> you want to use "total_written" for the pointer, and "written" to break the loop due to a negative write( return
<simon-o> joaopinto: argh, sorry. I'll try it again. Thanks
<joaopinto> simon-o, the fix for those unhandled writes( is not as simple as it looks ;)
<simon-o> joaopinto: yeah, that's true.
<simon-o> good to have someone who reviews it :)
 * sistpoty|work wonders why it uses write there in the first place, and not just the much simpler stdio counterparts
<ScottK> gaspa: Accepted.  Thanks.
<gaspa> ScottK: cool, thank _you_ :P
<simon-o> joaopinto: next try: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~simono/ubuntu/karmic/gnoemoe/fixes-bug-459164/+merge/13854 I now use the total written bytes to decrease the counter and move forward in the buffer
<joaopinto> simon-o, 2 errors
<joaopinto> ops, wait, let me look again :P
<simon-o> :P
<joaopinto> simon-o, well, there is a broken code path, but it get's discated on loop exit condition
<joaopinto> total_written += written;
<joaopinto> on error, written is negative, and you are decreasing total_* :P
<joaopinto> I hope no one decides to re-use total_written out of the loop :P
<simon-o> joaopinto: that's right, but then the loop discontinues
<simon-o> joaopinto: ok, that's a good point I'll move total_written += written two lines up
<simon-o> then it should be ok
<sistpoty|work> no, if a signal is delivered during the write, written is negative and errno is EINTR
<sistpoty|work> but the loop continues
<simon-o> sistpoty|work: I thought errno is only EINTR before any bytes are written
<simon-o> ok I see, forget about it
<simon-o> sistpoty|work, joaopinto: I'll add a check if written > 0 and increase total_written only in that case
<simon-o> that should be safe
<joaopinto> that looks good
 * sistpoty|work has the suspicion that the code slowly migrates to what I pasted :P
<simon-o> :D
<simon-o> joaopinto, sistpoty|work: https://code.launchpad.net/~simono/ubuntu/karmic/gnoemoe/fixes-bug-459164/+merge/13854 updated again
<ScottK> didrocks: Any luck on a quickly fix?
<quidnunc> How do I search for a package that might be a child of some metapackage?
<didrocks> ScottK: I didn't have the time to work on it, but currently doing it. It seems to be almost good
<ScottK> didrocks: Excellent.
<joaopinto> quidnunc, a child ? you mean a dependency ?
<quidnunc> joaopinto: I thought that sometimes that a dependency might be listed but that dependency was not actually a package but was provided by the "real" package
<quidnunc> Specifically I want to know what provides "X11", if anything
<joaopinto> ah ok :|
<sistpoty|work> simon-o: almost good: for the second part, you don't clear errno, but have the write done in a loop that loops on errno==EINTR. iirc a write will not clear errno (only set it if things go wrong)
<joaopinto> simon-o, I am not sure the second loop is safe
<joaopinto> write() can return 0, that is not an error, and you are not retrying
<joaopinto> merge it with sistpoty|work comments :P, you only care about errno if rc<0
<sistpoty|work> exactly :)
<simon-o> sistpoty|work, joaopinto: ok, so while (e]
<simon-o> while (written <0 && errno == EINTR)
<sistpoty|work> yes
 * zooko has a fantasy of the Test Driven Operating System
<zooko> So anyway, I've installed gcc-4.4.1-3ubuntu3 and now I'm creating a new pbuilder chroot with it.
<simon-o> sistpoty|work, joaopinto: Here we go again: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~simono/ubuntu/karmic/gnoemoe/fixes-bug-459164/+merge/13854
<zooko> This should tell us whether there was a regression in gcc between 4.4.1-3ubuntu3 and the current 4.4.1-4ubuntu8, or whether there is something funny with my particular machine.
<didrocks> ScottK: Quickly fix uploaded in 0.2.6
<ScottK> didrocks: Would you please pastebin me the diff.
<sistpoty|work> simon-o: looks good to me
<ScottK> didrocks: Any chance you could sponsor simon-o's patch ^^^
<joaopinto> simon-o, looks good
<didrocks> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/302134/
<ScottK> THanks.
<didrocks> ScottK: joaopinto seems to be on it :)
<ScottK> didrocks: OK.
<ScottK> I lose track of who is MOTU and who isn't.
<joaopinto> I am not a MOTU :)
<didrocks> oh ok
<didrocks> reviewing so :)
<maco> you know im not ;)
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> maco: Yes.  You should fix something I can sponsor
<maco> haz midterm tonight. then will do
<ScottK> maco: OK.  8AM our time tomorrow is the deadline.
<didrocks> ScottK: I don't have here a running VM with GUI (at work), but I can do it in let's say 4 hours, is it ok?
<maco> oh dear. ok youre a night owl, yeah?
<ScottK> maco: Also up at 5:45 to get kids off to school.
<zooko> 8AM in what timezone?
<simon-o> sistpoty|work, ScottK, didrocks, joaopinto: Thanks for your help
<sistpoty|work> thanks for working on it, simon-o
<ScottK> didrocks: quickly accepted.  thanks.
<simon-o> sistpoty|work: This was a nasty one, but I learned a lot :)
<sistpoty|work> :)
<ScottK> zooko: -0400.  Noon UTC is the deadline
<ogra> ScottK, she should fix something you can sponsor ? i'D say she should fix her status and finally become motu rather :)
<ScottK> ogra: Right and if I sponsor something I can write a nice endorsement on her application.
 * ogra would have betted money on maco being motu ... why arent you yet ? 
<maco> ogra: wanna cheer for me on nov 13?
<maco> im applying at that mc meeting
<ogra> aww, thats awfully close to UDS ... but i'll try to attend
<maco> i think youre the second person to express surprise at my not-motu-ness
<ogra> heh
<didrocks> ScottK: thanks to you :)
<zooko> Hm.  pbuilder of libcrypto++8 hangs on the SHA validation suite even though I dpkg -i'ed gcc-4.4.1-3ubuntu3 before creating this pbuilder.
<ScottK> Anyone with amd64 that could do a test build of klamav and tell me if/why it fails.
 * zooko tries to double-check to make sure that the g++ version in there is really 4.4.1-3ubuntu3.
<ScottK> zooko: Did you install it on your system or in the pbuilder chroot?
<zooko> I installed it into my system and then mv'ed aside /var/cache/pbuilder and created a new pbuilder.
<zooko> following this howto https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
 * zooko unpacks /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz
<zooko> Whoops, it has g++-4.4.1-4ubuntu4 in it.
<zooko> How do I create a pbuilder chroot with g++-4.4.1-3ubuntu3?
<zooko> Also, could I interest someone else in..  Hey, maybe #ubuntu-motu isn't the best channel for finding someone who wants to help me worry about a regression in g++.
<zooko> But what is the right channel?  #ubuntu-devel?
<zooko> Anyway, I was going to say could I interest someone in rebuilding libcrypto++8 and telling me if it hangs, segfaults, or passes its self-tests (specifically the SHA ones).
<zooko> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_perf_regressions&num=1
<zooko> ^-- very cool automated git bisect of performance regressions
<ScottK> asac: accepted bindwood
<ScottK> zooko: Use pbuilder --login and then install the .deb's in the chroot
<ScottK> Then debuild -us -uc
<zooko> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> zooko: You'll also need devscripts and fakeroot installed in the chroot
<zooko> ScottK ok
<zooko> Um, ScottK: this is a newbie question, but is there any easier way to get stuff into the chroot environment than uploading it to a web server and wget''ing it once I've chrooted?
<zooko> I just finished adding it into the tarball when I realized that the resulting taball won't have the right mknod bits set...
<zooko> If I repack it with "tar cf"
<ScottK> zooko: Yes.  The chroot lives in /var/cache/pbuilder/build after you login.  You can sudo cp stuff into it.
<joaopinto> you should be able to repackage a chroot with tar without problems
<zooko> thanks
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: I'll give klamav a shot
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Thanks.
<zooko> Hrm, it says it needs libcloog-ppl0 libgmpxx4ldbl libppl-c2 libppl7 to install g++-4.4.1-3ubuntu3.
<zooko> I don't suppose there is a comman d to tell apt-get to get all of those deps recursively but get the *older* ones that match this version of g++?
<zooko> Also I wonder why it didn't say that when I installed g++-4.4.1-3ubuntu3 in my actualy system.
<zooko> Hm, also libcloog-pp10 doesn't appear to be a real ubuntu package at all.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: fails: http://paste.ubuntu.com/302162/
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: It used to build.  Any ideas what would cause that?
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: not at the moment, let me dig a bit further
<ScottK> We can't accept any more uploads for packages that are seeded by Mythbunto or Ubuntu Studio.
<blackxored> ScottK, I'm here ;)
<ScottK> blackxored: What's the issue that needs this update?
<blackxored> ScottK, is some lockdown in multiannounce torrents and suddenly all torrent sites started using the feature 2 weeks ago or so, so it will an annonyance for users
<blackxored> ScottK, that was the long answer, the short one: #551363
<ScottK> OK.  Looking.
<blackxored> the changes are trivial so I don't think we'll break anything by this update
<blackxored> at debian bts
<blackxored> btw
<ScottK> There's an existing Ubuntu delta.  Did you check to see if that's in the Debian package now?
<blackxored> ScottK, no is not because it's related to hotspot and we don't experience the bug in debian
<ScottK> OK, so what I really need is a merge, not a sync.
<blackxored> ScottK, I never asked for a sync ;)
<blackxored> the ubuntu delta is just for the launcher
<blackxored> but it may be required for you
<ScottK> I'm reluctant to drop it so close to release.
<blackxored> although is kind of weird since I'm running my build on karmic without problems, could even be dropped after some testing ;)
<ScottK> We're ~16 hours from our final, final freeze for universe, so I'm reluctant.
<blackxored> azureus:
<blackxored>   Installed: 4.2.0.8-3
<blackxored>   Candidate: 4.2.0.8-3
<blackxored>   Version table:
<blackxored>  *** 4.2.0.8-3 0
<blackxored>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<blackxored>      4.2.0.8-1ubuntu1 0
<blackxored>         500 http://cu.archive.ubuntu.com karmic/universe Packages
<blackxored> running without problems
<blackxored> ok no problems for me but I'm just telling that probably it was a bug with the hotspot compiler that got eventually fixed, it was karmic alpha 5 if I recall
<ScottK> I believe it works for you, I just don't know exactly what conditions caused it to be added in the first place.
<blackxored> ScottK, a segmentation fault in the hotspot compiler for the class it's now excluded from compilation in the ubuntu delta
<blackxored> No LSB modules are available.
<blackxored> Distributor ID: Ubuntu
<blackxored> Description:    Ubuntu 9.10
<blackxored> Release:        9.10
<blackxored> Codename:       karmic
<ScottK> jdong: You around?
<ScottK> I see.
<blackxored> well but that's not exactly my point I want this bugfix to be used in ubuntu as well
<ScottK> blackxored: RIght, I'm just about getting it in the safest way
<blackxored> ScottK, that's both of us then ;)
<ScottK> iulian: Can you look at this ^^^
 * ScottK has ETOOMANYPROBLEMS going on right now
<blackxored> also you're at ubuntu1 revision??? wow you're missing two important bug fixes then
<blackxored> in 4.2.0.8-2: Fix filename encoding UTF8 issues. Closes: #502879.
<blackxored> and now in 4.2.0.8-3: - Fix multi-announce torrent issues. Closes: #551363.
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> If iulian doesn't look at it, I can look at it a little later.
<blackxored> ScottK, that's fine I wanted you guys to know before everything is frozen ;) heheh
<blackxored> ScottK, thanks for your help
<blackxored> BTW for you guys to check about the ubuntu delta, the bug that caused it it's LP#428514
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> mterry: mseide-msegui accepted.  Thanks.
<mterry> ScottK: that's my big ftbfs contribution today.   :)  was busier elsewhere than I thought
<ScottK> mterry: OK.  Thanks for that.  We're open for business for another 18 and a half hours, so keep them coming.
<asac> ScottK: thx
<ScottK> No problem.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: my best guess is that a libtool build-dependency is missing for klamav, giving that a shot
<sistpoty|work> (since when is libtool no longer getting drawn in from autoconf (or was it automake?)...?)
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Thanks.
<ScottK> I have this bug in Debian too and no amd64 to work on it.
<sistpoty|work> oh, looks like autoconf didn't depend on libtool in the first place... strange, I always thought that was the case
<ScottK> Is there a MOTU in the house that can look at Bug #461234
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461234 in jargoninformatique "FTBFS with GCC 4.4 and eglibc 2.10" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461234
<iulian> ScottK: Looking at azureus right now.
<ScottK> iulian: Thanks.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: hm, adding libtool to b-d didn't fix klamav.
<mpt> Hi everyone
<mpt> This week I am designing the Ubuntu Software Center v2, which will be dealing with non-application packages (like Synaptic does)
<mpt> so I shall be asking various strange questions about packaging
<iulian> blackxored: As ScottK said, I don't want to drop that change from Ubuntu either, especially at this point.  How important are these two patches?
<ScottK> What is a non-application package?
<ScottK> iulian: I'd say just merge and update.
<mpt> ScottK, one that doesn't contain an application with a .desktop file. Or more precisely but less enduringly, one that isn't represented inside app-install-data.
<iulian> ScottK: OK.
<ScottK> OK.  Well there are lots of applications that don't need gui or .desktop files.  It seems an odd choice of terminology
<mpt> ScottK, yeah, it's the least clumsy term I've thought of so far. If you have ideas for a better term, that would be cool, because there needs to be a toggle for it in the interface somewhere :-)
<mpt> My first strange question is: Are any Ubuntu packages marked as "Essential"? (I don't see it mentioned in "apt-cache show libc6" for example.) If so, how would I see a list of which packages they are?
<ScottK> libc6 isn't essential.
<mpt> It's "Priority: required"
<sistpoty|work> mpt: bash is an example of a package marked as Essential: yes
<sistpoty|work> mpt: you can see these in /var/lib/dpkg/available for example (^Essential: yes) might be a starting point
<sistpoty|work> mpt: however essential: yes != required. it just means it's a package that provides functionality that can be used in maintainer scripts w.o. further thinking
<mpt> ok
<mpt> thanks sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> yw
<mpt> interesting that dash and bash are both Essential
<joaopinto> hum, what's the criteria for that Essential ? part of the debootstrap process ?
<sistpoty|work> mpt: because you'll want to call shell scripts and iirc there might be problems with /bin/sh being a symlink if not both packages are installed
<sistpoty|work> joaopinto: provide essential functionality for maintainer scripts (and dpkg)
 * mpt toddles off home
<alkisg> Hi, `usermode` is translated in a lot of languages (there are lots of .po files in its source) but *none* of the .mo files get installed if one installs the package. What could be wrong?
<alkisg> !info usermode
<ubottu> usermode (source: usermode): Graphical tools for certain user account management tasks. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.81-3.2 (jaunty), package size 78 kB, installed size 312 kB
<iulian> When running dpkg-buildpackage I get:
<iulian> You must specify a valid JAVA_HOME or JAVACMD!
<iulian> make: *** [ant-sanity-check] Error 1
<iulian> How can I fix this?
<iulian> blackxored, ScottK: ^
<ScottK> iulian: You're building the source package?
<iulian> Yes.
<ScottK> Install the build-deps
<ScottK> You need one of them (I don't recall which) to make the source package
<ScottK> I usually just apt-get build-dep and then autoremove when I'm done
<iulian> ls
<iulian> Oups.
<alkisg> Also, if I run `apt-get source usermode` and then `debuild -b`, the resulting package *does* have all the .mo files. How can that be?!!!
<iulian> ScottK: Thanks.
<alkisg> Does the Ubuntu building process strip all the .mo files by default?
<ScottK> For packages in Main it does
<ScottK> It then puts them in language packs
<alkisg> But usermode is in universe...
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> This happens sometime.
<alkisg> uh, should I file a bug then?
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Any suggestions ^^^?
<ScottK> dpm: ^^^
<ScottK> Let's see if we can get it figured out.
<JontheEchidna> hmm
<alkisg> Thanks
 * ScottK has summoned people who know more about it than he
 * dpm reads...
<JontheEchidna> anything non-kde translation related is a bit out of scope for me
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: I didn't get too far with klamav. my best guess is that rerunning autotools might help, but it seems that acinclude.m4 could be the troublemaker (probably an old version copied somewhere from kde)
<dpm> alkisg, if you are building a package locally, translations are not stripped by default.
<ScottK> urgh
<ScottK> dpm: But they shouldn't be stripped for Universe packages either
<alkisg> dpm: yes, but my problem is that I'd like it to be translated when I install it from the ubuntu repositories, so that I don't have to compile it myself...
<dpm> ScottK, yes, that's correct, and that's the other point :-)
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: but that's just guess, and probably not a very good one
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Thanks for looking.
<sistpoty|work> yw
<blackxored> iulian, i was off
<blackxored> you need ant for clean target
<iulian> ScottK: I've prepared a merge of azureus.  Are you OK if I upload it?
<ScottK> iulian: Assuming you've built it, etc., sure.
<iulian> blackxored: Yea, I've successfully built it.
<blackxored> I'll be off for another ten minutes so please pv me
<blackxored> iulian, great ;)
<ScottK> blackxored: It's about to go in.  Thanks for letting us know about it.
<blackxored> iulian, what did you do about the ubuntu delta, you kept it, as you said a merge didn't you
<ScottK> Yes, we kept it.
<iulian> blackxored: Yes.
<iulian> ScottK: Uploaded.
<ScottK> We can look at dropping it in Lucid
<ScottK> Excellent.
<blackxored> ScottK, no problem at all, I would have done it myself, but I was kind of busy with an ecommerce app, also not quite confident to ubuntu procedures, since I came from debian
<blackxored> iulian, ScottK: thank you guys, I'll soon go ahead and install ;)
<iulian> blackxored: Cool, thank you.
<ScottK> blackxored: We could really use more help from people who know something about Java.  Not to many MOTU do
<blackxored> ScottK, I'm part of the debian-java team so I'll be around for any questions ;) hehe
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Thaks
<ScottK> Thanks even
 * iulian -> supper.
<wrapster> geser: I dont understand whats going on at all.. npsr i built successfully all the 64libs are installed yet when i try compiling nss i get this.. http://pastie.org/670439
<wrapster> i just want to get this up and working..pls help
<geser> wrapster: is this from a libnss 64bit build?
<wrapster> geser: yes
<geser> wrapster: looks like it's missing the flag to build a 64bit lib (the .o files got build for 64bit, yet it tries to link them to 32bit lib, that's what it's complaining about)
<wrapster> geser: here is the rules file http://pastie.org/670458
<geser> wrapster: it
<wrapster> geser: it ?
<geser> wrapster: hit the return key to early :(
<wrapster> i got it.. looking at the makefile in mozilla/nss/security... but dont seem to quite get it.
<wrapster> geser: thats ok..
<geser> wrapster: while your build uses -m64 (from CFLAGS), it's missing in the linking stage (IIRC I saw it mentioned in your pastes where you got the linking a little bit further)
<wrapster> geser: no..
<wrapster> geser: no was for that -m64 flag
<wrapster> i have indeed used it.
<geser> if the upstream Makefile honours LDFLAGS during the linking stage, try setting it to the flags needed to link a 64bit lib
<wrapster> ok
<geser> I'm slowly losing an overview of what you have tried, what worked and what not
<wrapster> geser: i looked at the make file nothing like that specified
<wrapster> geser: oh.. well forget about that nspr thing for now.. its all working fine..
<wrapster> and in nss there is nothing much i changed apart form -m64 being added to the rules file.
<wrapster> thats all..
<wrapster> with this im hoping that individually at least I can first build it then I will think about including both...
<geser> what did you do that nspr linked a 64bit lib (instead of a 32bit one), or didn't you need to change anything for it?
<asomething> If anyone from MOTU-Release is around and has time to look at Bug #460462, I'd appriecieate it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460462 in evolution-rss "evolution-rss no longer downloads new messages" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460462
<ScottK> asomething: Yes.  Please.
<asomething> ScottK: Thanks!
<JontheEchidna> ScottK: does opengtl need updating?
<JontheEchidna> in regard to bug 460345
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460345 in opengtl "update to llvm 2.6 final release" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460345
<ScottK> doko_: ^^^
<ScottK> He'd know
<JontheEchidna> looks like 0.9.11 is required for llvm 2.6
<JontheEchidna> http://www.opengtl.org/Download.html <- as referenced here
<JontheEchidna> I believe that koffice2 and darkroom will need rebuilt for the new .so version
<ScottK> Argh.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> doko_: ?
<JontheEchidna> (I did a gtl transition earlier this cycle)
<ScottK> OK.  Hopefully doko answers soon.
<JontheEchidna> doko_: if need be, I can take care of opengtl and its rdepends
<JontheEchidna> I would have updated opengtl earlier on, but it's very finicky about what it considers llvm 2.6, and I did not have time to make the detection consider our snapshot 2.6
<ScottK> Right, well the 2.6 upload just got done today.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, what about bug #461286?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461286 in htcheck "FTBFS with GCC 4.4 and eglibc 2.10" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461286
<ScottK> Looking
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: If you've tested it and think it's good, I'm good.
<randomaction> Got a couple of FTBFS fixes: bug 461373 and bug 461375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461373 in kobodeluxe "kobodeluxe 0.5.1-4 FTBFS (const char*)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461373
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461375 in knmap "knmap 2.1-3build1 FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461375
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, I'll test it. Test building now
<ScottK> randomaction: Yes.  Please.
<ScottK> Anyone around who can sponsor 461373 and 375?
<Laney> bug 461373 bug 461375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461373 in kobodeluxe "kobodeluxe 0.5.1-4 FTBFS (const char*)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461373
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461375 in knmap "knmap 2.1-3build1 FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461375
<asomething> ScottK: If you provide the motu-release acks, I'll test and sponsor the uploads
<Laney> already looking at 373
<Laney> you can take the other one, AndrewGee
<ScottK> Ack for both of them.
<Laney> asomething: *
<asomething> Laney: ok, i'll take 461375
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: I think I've got an extremely ugly you-don't-even-want-to-think-about-it workaround to make klamav build
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Cool.  What?
<ScottK> extremely ugly don't want to think about it permeates the code
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: fiddling a bit with admin/ltmain.sh and removing some of the strange rpath logic there... let me paste it somewhere
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Laney> kobodeluxe uploaded
<ScottK> didrocks: Are you still doing gnoemeo?
<ScottK> Thanks
<didrocks> ScottK: I'm just back from work, so I can work on it now
<ScottK> Excellent.  Thanks.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/302267/
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: I think you need only the 3rd hunk from it
<sistpoty|work> (the other ones were tries that didn't work)
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Building without the rpath defined is 'better' anyway, isn't it?
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: I hope it doesn't actually need rpath somewhere? then klamav would probably be broken by it
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: not if it uses private shared objects (e.g. in /usr/lib/klamav)
<sistpoty|work> at least I think I've read something on debian-devel that it's ok to do that nowadays
<ScottK> We'll try it and see.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: the 3rd hunk is indeed enough, just did a cleaner test-build again
<ScottK> Thanks.
<asomething> knmap uploaded. Thanks randomaction!
<randomaction> thanks for quick acks and uploads :)
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: If doko doesn't answer, use your best judgement about uploading stuff and let me know.
<ajmitch> ScottK: when's close-off for uploads?
<ScottK> jwilk: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20090909/+build/1228820/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.python-goopy_0.1-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ScottK> ajmitch: 1200 UTC on Tuesday for unseeded packages in Universe/Multiverse.  For seeded stuff unless it's urgent enough for an ISO respin, it's too late.
<ScottK> Eventually got the right message on the right channel
<ajmitch> ScottK: it's ok, I'm in there as well
<ajmitch> so pretty much just the next few hours
<ScottK> Over 15.
<ScottK> That's not so bad.
<ajmitch> yeah, stuff like that boost issue just came up in #nzpug after some people upgraded to karmic
<fabrice_sp> htcheck uploaded
 * sistpoty|work must go home now... cya
<ScottK> ajmitch: Did anyone ever find a patch for that (it'll have to go to updates now)?
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Thanks.
<ScottK> Any MOTU can look at 461300 and 461338?
<didrocks> ScottK: gnoemoe sponsored
<ScottK> didrocks: Thanks.  Can you look at ^^^
<didrocks> yeah, taking first one :)
 * sebner steps in for the second one
<JontheEchidna> wow, too fast :D
<sebner> Laney: ah do you do it?
<ScottK> OK 461234
<ScottK> Who's up for htat?
<ScottK> that
<ajmitch> ScottK: no I didn't find one yet
<ScottK> urgh.  ok
<JontheEchidna> I can take 461234
<ajmitch> yeah sorry, I'll try & hunt over the next couple of days so we can get a SRU ready for it
<sebner> If sebner just would know how to work with bzr and branches xD
<Laney> I wonder how to sponsor from branches indeed
<ScottK> sebner: There's a link to pull a diff
<sebner> heh
<Laney> isn't there a proper (bzr) way?
<sebner> ScottK: Yeah, uploading the package is not the problem but merging the branch with the fix etc
<didrocks> sebner: I generally use: bzr bd debuild -- -S -kâ¦
<didrocks> oh, merging the branch. I dunno too :/
<asac> ScottK: is there a bfilter upload or something for a while in unapproaved?
<asac> a while == 1 week
<ScottK> asac: No
<asac> hmm
<asac> ok need to upload then i guess.
<asac> you said something about locked archive? isnt it manual review now?
<sebner> asac is *teehh* bzr hero
<asac> haha
<asac> i would think that its got rejected
<asac> ;)
<sebner> Laney: do you search for a proper solution or only care to get the fix into the archive?
<ScottK> asac: For stuff on an ISO it needs to go to proposed.  For unseeded stuff there's 15 hours
<Laney> sebner: what?
<ScottK> sebner: Today get it in the archive.
<sebner> aye aye
<asac> ScottK: 15 hours?
<asac> the archive gets locked down hard?
<ScottK> asac: 1200UTC tomorrow is when we stop.
<sebner> Laney: do you do 461338?
<asac> stop everything?
<asac> is that new?
<Laney> if I set it as in progress
<ScottK> asac: There's a 12 hour OMG window after that for Ubuntu Release, but MOTU Release won't approve anything else.
<sebner> Laney: so yes I suppose
<sebner> ScottK: might delegating another sponsorship task to me?
<sebner> *mind
<Laney> chillax then
<Laney> sebner: just do the list
<ScottK> sebner: That's all I got.  Go fix some FTBFS.
<sebner> Ok :)
<ScottK> asac: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-October/000634.html <- Is actually later than we've done ever before.
<asac> ScottK: is that new? why do we prevent two days of universe fixes?
<asac> hmm
<asac> odd
<asac> ok
<ScottK> asac: Normally we freeze on Sunday.
<ScottK> Thanks to security in soyuz though we don't need 3 days to copy the archive to dak.
<asac> yeah. but freeze means for me: "manually approvable"
<asac> yeah
<asac> ok
<ScottK> Then we're frozen now.
<asac> i think we have two more uploads then
<asac> or three
<ScottK> OK.
<asac> today
<asac> all
<ScottK> Good
<didrocks> ScottK: klogic uploaded
<ScottK> Excellent.
<Laney> hmm
<JontheEchidna> jargoninformatique uploaded
<ScottK> Thanks
<sebner> ScottK: do you get to the approval list anyways or should we ping you?
<sebner> ScottK: ah nuke python-happydoc please
<Laney> kdbg done
 * Laney -> out
<fabrice_sp> I've fixed a FTBFS in a package (libcsfml). Should I upload it, and request review here, or create a bug report?
<sebner> fabrice_sp: just upload and ScottK will approve it
<fabrice_sp> ok
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: That's fine.  If you can pastebin me the diff, that'd be nice too.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/302306/
<fabrice_sp> (for libcsfml upload)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Ack.  Go for it.
<sebner> ScottK: please reject python-happydoc :)
<ScottK> sebner: Will do
<sebner> thx
<fabrice_sp> thanks :-)
<ScottK> sebner: Somewhat interestingly I looked at that and thought I better test build it myself before accepting ....
<sebner> ScottK: Now you can accept
<sebner> ScottK: hmm? I fixed the changelog. testbuilt myself of course
<ScottK> sebner: OK.
<sebner> ScottK: you are free to give it another test of course :)
<ari-tczew> hello, I need ask someone from MOTU
<sebner> ari-tczew: just ask ;)
<ari-tczew> I'm looking at packages.ubuntu.com for drupal5
<ari-tczew> there is 5.15-1ubuntu1.1 on jaunty
<ari-tczew> but if I click on changelog
<ari-tczew> The requested URL /changelogs/pool/universe/d/drupal5/drupal5_5.15-1ubuntu1.1/changelog was not found on this server.
<ari-tczew> note: package built fine today
<ScottK> I've seen at least one use of ${py_setup_install_args} not go well today, so I'm being careful
<sebner> ScottK: ah, ok. np
<ari-tczew> what is wrong?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: It takes some time to get there
<sebner> ScottK: I usually testbuild stuff myself before uploading *anything* though ;)
<ajmitch> just look at the changelog on launchpad instead
<ScottK> sebner: Certainly.  It's just I'm extra paranoid on the last day
<ari-tczew> "software related to..." doesn't have this info too
<sebner> heh
<ajmitch> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drupal5 has it, I don't know how often the changelogs are extracted for the site you're looking at
<ScottK> sebner: It's (as you expected) fine.  Thanks.
<sebner> ScottK: heh, really np. Please stay that paranoid as it's really the last day. :)
<JontheEchidna> erm
<JontheEchidna> crap: http://paste.ubuntu.com/302311/
<ajmitch> that don't look so hot
<ari-tczew> I just wonder why these packages are not exist in my page on launchpad as "Software related to..."
<ajmitch> maybe because it's a sponsored security upload, there could be special stuff around that
<ajmitch> you'd have to find out from #launchpad
<JontheEchidna> opengtl is an optional dependency in both cases. If worse comes to worse we can drop them as build-depends from both darkroom and koffice2
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Upstream have patches?
<JontheEchidna> looks like a 0.9.12 release is due pretty soon
<JontheEchidna> oh, no it's not
<JontheEchidna> no patches upstream
 * JontheEchidna -> dinner
<sebner> ScottK: do we prefer syncs still over manual uploads
<sebner> +?
<ScottK> sebner: Generally.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/302316/ ?
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Ack.  Go for it.
<ScottK> sebner: If it needs a manual upload, let me do it.
<sebner> ScottK: I just filed the sync request. Give me a sec to fetch the bug number
<ScottK> 461451, right?
<sebner> good catch ;)
<sebner> ScottK: dpkg-deb: building package `pygopherd' in `../pygopherd_2.0.18.3+nmu2_all.deb'.
<sebner> saves you the time of testbuilding
<ScottK> sebner: I've asked to have it sync'ed.  I'll do it manually later if needed.
<sebner> k
<asac> ScottK: so sugar-hulahop and helix-player with xulrunner-1.9.1 switch uploaded
<ScottK> asac: Thanks.
<asac> ScottK: also one more one line fix for bindwood ... thanks and sorry. i think thats it.
<asac> for me ;)
<sebner> ScottK: another ${py_setup_install_args} for you to test :D
<ScottK> sebner: Now that I saw one work, I'll believe you.
<ScottK> asac: OK.
<sebner> ScottK: Trust is good, control is better :) gnahh I testbuild so thx ^^
<ScottK> Debian put out a DSA for nginx today.  Would someone check and see if we have the fix.
<ScottK> sebner: Just pastebin me the diff
<sebner> ScottK: hihi, http://paste.ubuntu.com/302330/  with  dpkg-deb: building package `pympd' in `../pympd_0.07-1.2ubuntu1_all.deb'.
<ScottK> sebner: Ack.  Go for it.
<sebner> ScottK: thx, We should have made a "Fix python FTBFS" too as most of them are not that hard to fix
<ScottK> I'm off for a while.  Any motu-release can ack uploads and I'll accept them when I get back.
<doko_> JontheEchidna, ScottK: go ahead, it's better than having a non-working version
<ScottK> OK
<JontheEchidna> Go ahead with which solution?
<ScottK> doko_: ^^^
<doko_> ScottK: the opengtl update?
<ScottK> doko_: Except that didn't work.
<ScottK> doko_:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/302311/
<doko_> ahh, ok
<doko_> hmm, but supported by llvm ...
<JontheEchidna> come to think of it, things worked fine before the check, at least compiling-wise
<JontheEchidna> nevermind, the check came 7 months ago
<vadi2> Hi, I'm getting this error when trying to use debuild: "Enter passphrase: gpg: gpg-agent is not available in this session"
<vadi2> Anyone know how to fix it?
<ari-tczew> valdi2: have you got installed: gpgv libgpgme11 pinentry-gtk2 ?
<sebner> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/302371/
<sebner> ScottK: already uploaded of course ^^
<ScottK> sebner: Ack
<sebner> :)
<micahg> ScottK: if helix-player fails to build with the latest python and is 2 years old, is it worth trying to build the latest version (also no longer in debian)
<ScottK> micahg: Depends on how hard it is.  Generally Python FTBFS aren't hard.  At this point I'd rather fix it than remove it.
<micahg> well, it was removed from debian 2 years ago, so I think Ubuntu chose to keep it
<vadi2> ari-tczew: no, but I installed it now and the same thing
<vadi2> ari-tczew: before, seahorse would pop-up a dialog for me... I reinstalled, and it's not anymore
<ari-tczew> please restart system
<ari-tczew> and test again
<vadi2> ok, brb
<vadi2> ari-tczew: thanks mate, that worked. would it be a bug that devscripts didn't install that stuff?
<ari-tczew> hmmm
<ari-tczew> have you got time now?
<ari-tczew> we need check depends
<vadi2> I'm taking a break, yeah
<ari-tczew> but remember: packages in universe cannot depends on main
<ari-tczew> valdi2: have you got installed gnupg-agent now ?
<vadi2> yep
<ari-tczew> which packages you not have installed from: gpgv libgpgme11 pinentry-gtk2
<ari-tczew> ?
<vadi2> I installed them all
<ari-tczew> please check separately them
<ari-tczew> e.g. uninstall gpgv and test - reproduce
<vadi2> uninstalling gpgv would remove too much stuff. it must have been already installed
<ari-tczew> this way we can learn which package is needed to work
<ScottK> vadi2: It's by design that devscripts does not install everything needed for every script.  It would pull in a huge amount if it did.
<vadi2> and removing libgpgme11 removes seahorse... but it was already installed.
<vadi2> ScottK: but don't people have to sign packages normally?
<ScottK> vadi2: Yes, but they don't need devscripts to do that.
<ScottK> devscripts just provides some wrappers that make it easier.
<vadi2> eh. Well, the problem was pretty cryptic for me, just wondering about a solution for others
<sebner> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/302390/
<ScottK> sebner: Ack.
<ari-tczew> normal user doesn't have time and skill to searching where is the problem :(
 * ScottK wonders where all the FTBFS fixers went?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-27
<ajmitch> asleep or at work?
<ScottK> Meh!  Sleep is for the weak.
<sebner> ScottK: I'm really but I have to go to bed. 7 hours in the train. 1.00 am and my first lesson tomorrow is math :(
<ScottK> OK, you're forgiven.
<ScottK> Good night.
<sebner> heh
<sebner> gn8 and thanks for all your hard work!
<asac> ScottK: ok we build fixed helix-player, also build tested in ppa ... and checked that firefox can load that plugin in about:plugins
<asac> about to say good night ;)
<ScottK> asac: Excellent.  Uploaded again, I assume?
<ScottK> I see it.
<asac> ScottK: yes. its up
<asac> thx
<hedkandi> hello motus
<hedkandi> I guess you're all busy with the next release.
<hedkandi> I've spent the past two days trying to learn how to create a package for revu
<hedkandi> The documentation for this is utterly terrible.
<hedkandi> and I can safely say that I am a smart guy, and if, after two days of study
<hedkandi> I still have not got a clue what you people, and your documentation is on about
<hedkandi> then it is inadequate.
<hedkandi> I think you guys could think a little less about all the fantastic features you're going to brag about
<hedkandi> and think a little more about how to make linux accessible to other people instead.
<micahg> hedkandi: if you think the process needs help, then help make it better
<hedkandi> I am not in a position to fix it myself because I know nothing about the topic
<hedkandi> obviously
<micahg> then how do you know there's a problem?
<zooko> hedkandi: you sound frustrated.
<hedkandi> this "oh it's up to YOU to solve the problem" is a cop-out
<zooko> I sympathize with the frustration of trying to do something technical and finding the docs inadequate.
<hedkandi> it's just a way of absolving yourselves of the responsibility
<micahg> not up to you, but most of the people here are volunteers
<hedkandi> right well I'm going to bed
<hedkandi> bye
<micahg> ugh
<micahg> that frustrates me
<ajmitch> what, the complete lack of specific details in that whine?
<micahg> the arrogance that the user needs to be served, that because something already exists, it must be made perfect by the people who made it
<micahg> I think it's cool that people can jump in and help
<micahg> that's one of the reasons I like being a part of the ubuntu community
<micahg> over the past few days I had a small glimpse into the amount of work that goes into packaging
<ajmitch> and because of that, I recognise that I've lost my right to complain about karmic by not helping improve it :)
<micahg> and I think it's amazing what the MOTUs do
<directhex> he didn't even say which docs he feels sucks
<directhex> so...
<ajmitch> probably the packaging guide
<ajmitch> but we don't know
 * Yagisan is suddenly reminded why he would violate the CoC should he ever do "support" again for free
<directhex> i quit #debian many years ago to avoid high blood pressure
<Yagisan> I can imagine
<Yagisan> it's the sense of entitlement that is most frustrating
 * ScottK has a consulting rate for sense of entitlement
<Yagisan> it's easier to put up with when you get financially compensated, but most of these people are too cheep for that
<zul> ajmitch: blah
 * Yagisan wonders if he should upgrade or fresh install in 2 days
<ScottK> zul: Would you mind pastebining me your opennebula diff?
<ScottK> Nevermind
<ScottK> zul: Ack.  Looks good.  Thanks.
<ScottK> So I'm starting to like debhelper 7.
<ari-tczew> why?
<ScottK> I spent an hour trying to coax pyproj into building with it's cdbs rules and gave it up as impossible.  In 5 minutes I had it building with debhelper 7.
<ScottK> Nice readable docs too.  I didn't have to grep the source to figure stuff out http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/debhelper.html
<ari-tczew> While kamic development cycle I saw that developers don't like debhelper 7, because it breaks languages or something...
<StevenK> ScottK: Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I think people are still getting used to it because it's new.
<ari-tczew> e.g. notify-osd
<ScottK> No idea about that.
<ScottK> Personally, I've stayed away from it because I wasn't having any problems I thought it would solve.
<ScottK> Until tonight.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: are you working 24h ?
<StevenK> ScottK: But cdbs is a problem? :-)
<ScottK> Not quite.
<ScottK> StevenK: IME it works fine for many common use cases.  It's when you need to deviate from that that the magic gets scary and dark.
<StevenK> ScottK: Exactly. If you have a simple ./configure, make, make install, it's fine. But debhelper 7 even makes that case simple
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> If I was starting a package from scratch now, I'd use dh, but until tonight I've had no case for doing the work to convert an existing package.
<StevenK> ScottK: I've ripped yada out of packages, and switched to db
<StevenK> *dh
<ScottK> Well yada, sure.
<ajmitch> StevenK: have you managed to purge yada from the archive yet?
<StevenK> ajmitch: No. :-(
<StevenK> There's still around 20 source packages that use it.
<StevenK> Hobbsee reckons we should just remove it and let those 20 break.
<ajmitch> I agree
<ajmitch> I don't recognise any of those 20 packages, I'm sure they're not important
 * StevenK ponders a death-to-yada spec
<ScottK> +1
<JanC> hm, how to find those 20? ;)
<StevenK> checkrdepends
<ScottK> I'm thinking about a spec to have up stop carrying binaries forward from old releases.  Once the toolchain is in place, rebuild the entire archive and remove any binaries that fail.
<ScottK> That way any binaries we release with we know built at least once during the cycle.
<StevenK> http://paste.ubuntu.com/302525/
<lifeless> ScottK: +1
<zooko> I really like the fact that libcrypto++ runs its self-tests when built, which means that I don't have to worry about a broken one (due to the apparently bug in the new binutils) showing up in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> More self tests would be good.
<zooko> It makes me fantasize about the Test Driven Operating System, where no upgrade is allowed if it doesn't pass its own unit tests strictly better than the previous version did.
<ScottK> The bigger problem now though is the ~10% of the archive we can't build.
<StevenK> Some of the packages in that list are ... special
<ScottK> StevenK: They are.  I did a fair number of removals this time around too (thanks for the help on kaffe, btw).
<micahg> ScottK: are FTBFS fixes allowed after release?
<ScottK> micahg: Yes.
<ajmitch> micahg: normal SRU rules
<JanC> StevenK: I guess this is 'reverse-build-depends' in karmic?
<StevenK> JanC: They are the packages that Build-Depends in yada in Karmic
<dtchen> ugh, another item queued for the long 10.04 fixing
<ajmitch> dtchen: bug 433683 can be set as fix released since the fix is in the linux-backports-modules-alsa package?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433683 in linux "HP Pavilion dv7 2108 doesn't mute speakers & switch output to headphones when they are plugged in" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433683
<dtchen> ajmitch: nah, not until 10.04 gets 2.6.3x, x>=2. OTOH, I've added a linux-backports-modules-2.6.31 task and marked it Fix Released
<ajmitch> ok, thought I'd check since the alsa modules package isn't particularly obvious
<ajmitch> but the fix works nicely, it's good to be able to listen to music in the office again :)
<dtchen> yeah, I'm happy l-b-m gained the 20091012 snapshot
<dtchen> it resolves a crackload of regressions
<ScottK> BTW, we're open for business for Universe uploads for another 7 and a half hours ...
<porthose> ScottK, bug #461656
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461656 in rapache "Rapache FTBFS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461656
<ScottK> Looking
<ScottK> porthose: Uploaded.  Thank you.
<porthose> ScottK, ty :)
<ScottK> porthose: I did edit your debian/changelog slightly.  Have a look at that after it's in.
<porthose> ScottK,  Ok, was it not verbose enough?
<ScottK> porthose: No,  The regex for auto bug closing has a space in it.  Also don't go over 79 characters in a line.
<porthose> Oh ok
<wrapster> guys no matter what i try im still not going any further than http://pastie.org/670439
<wrapster> did everything I know... can anyone help me pls..
<wrapster> according to geser, idea i tried running individual make, even then I end up with this only.
<wrapster> damn libnss
<wrapster> pls help folks
<JanC> is that on Solaris or what?
<wrapster> JanC: thats on nexenta: solaris kernel+ ubuntu userland
<fabrice_sp> wrapster, not sure you will receive help today: this is the last day for last bugfixing uploads
 * ScottK will be back after some sleep to review more stuff.
<wrapster> fabrice_sp: oh man..
<wrapster> ok.. if you ppl find some time pls look into this as well..
<wrapster> thanks anyway guys.
<fabrice_sp> Any motu release to have a look at http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/302554/ (const char * invalid conversion)
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, I've just uploaded kmchart, linked to the previous pastebin
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Any motu-release to have a look at bug #461696?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461696 in jta "FFe: Sync jta 2.6+dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461696
<fabrice_sp> this fixes a FTBFS
<wrapster> folks finally i built the libnss 64bit version...
<wrapster> working fine.. if anyone is free let me know.. I have a few queries (not with pkging) to now write a wrapper for this...
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Looks good.  Thanks.
<fabrice_sp> thanks ScottK :-)
<dstansby> Hi guys, just wondering if anyone could elighten me as to why I'm getting the following error whilst trying to build a package:
<dstansby> Error: Target "linux", package "rtl" not found
<dstansby> make: *** [configure-stamp] Error 1
<dstansby> dpkg-buildpackage: error: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2
<sebner> ScottK: I ignored my alarm clock, slept until now (missed maths) ... anything to sponsor for me? ^^
<ScottK> sebner: Not that I know of.
<directhex> sebner, can you beat monobristol.git with a stick until allpackages.git works for me?
<sebner> directhex: looking
<ScottK> I'm off for awhile, but ought to be able to make an appearance shortly before we lock things down.
<sebner> directhex: wondering what's broken there (again)
<ogra> ScottK, hrm, your upload broke usb-imagewriter
<Q-FUNK> howdy! what is the procedure for getting a package approved to ${LTS}-backports ?
<Q-FUNK> I'm refering to the request in LP bug #237224 which I think is reasonable.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237224 in cups-pdf "No PDF file created when too-long File names result from ridiculous web page titles " [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237224
<Q-FUNK> the delta between what's in Hardy and current upstream is minimal.
<wrapster> why does something like this not work? how can i resolve it?
<wrapster> http://pastie.org/671432
<maco> can someone hit the retry button on maven-repository-builder? it was ftbfs but the dependency issue is fixed so it should build now
<maco> er oh... wait it failed to build on i386...
<randomaction> !backports | Q-FUNK
<ubottu> Q-FUNK: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<maco> ok yeah, i think maven-repository-builder should build now
<ScottK> ogra: OK.  Ack for the revert.
<ogra> ScottK, gracias
<slytherin> maco: it failed again
<maco> i wonder if it failed in the same way
<slytherin> taht only you can tell.
<maco> the fail was a missing dependency that is definitely in the repos
<ScottK> Would someone with ops please make /topic say we are FROZEN for Karmic.
<slytherin> This time it is MethodNotFoundException
<ScottK> It's SRU material now.
<maco> slytherin: only on i386, right? just like before?
<maco> it builds in a amd64 pbuilder
<slytherin> maco: It is arch:all package. It will be built only on i386.
<maco> oh ok
<dtchen> maco: create an i386 {s,}chroot and recreate the issue
<bddebian> Heya gang
<iulian> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya iulian
<sebner> huhu bddebian iulian
<iulian> Hey sebner.
<bdrung_> iulian, nhandler, ScottK, sistpoty|work: we did not manage to update eclipse-cdt. so it's better to remove it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eclipse-cdt/+bug/461995
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461995 in eclipse-cdt "RFA: Please remove eclipse-cdt from the karmic" [Undecided,New]
<sistpoty|work> bdrung_: what about duing an sru?
<iulian> bdrung_: Is it really not needed anymore?
<bdrung_> sistpoty|work: this would be an solution. but for eclipse-cdt we need some more packages (eclipse-mylyn, eclipse-emf, eclipse-rse) which are not in the archive
<sistpoty|work> bdrung_: ah, ok, I guess removal seems like the better choice then
<bdrung_> iulian: there are users of eclipse-cdt, but the package in the archive is totally outdated and does not work.
<sistpoty|work> (or at least removing the binaries)
<bdrung_> removing the binaries would be sufficient
<bdrung_> with the current eclipse package you can install plugins as user (stored in ~/.eclipse).
<bdrung_> iulian, nhandler, ScottK, sistpoty|work: second question: will the bugfix for bug 448337 be accepted?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448337 in nautilus-open-terminal ".bashrc is not executed when terminal is opened through nautilus-open-terminal" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448337
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work , I missed you desperatly yesterday :P
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<sistpoty|work> sebner: I was busy at work :(
<sebner> heh
<sebner> np
<sistpoty|work> bdrung_: I assume it can go through via SRU
<bdrung_> k
 * hyperair scratches head. where did all my wine shortcuts go?
<hyperair> it seems winemenubuilder blew them away =.=
<sebner> heh, huhu hyperair
<hyperair> damn weird =\
<hyperair> i mean all i did was replace a wined3d.dll..
<hyperair> and do some tweaks with winetools. wait, that must have done it
<konstantin> hi! i like to code, i like ubuntu, linux, c++, c and so on ... couple of minutes ago i watched MOTU: Common Questions Asked on youtube. how can i get into this?
<dholbach> hey konstantin
<konstantin> hi :)
<dholbach> check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted and the pages linked from there
<dholbach> there should be a bunch of good information like the packaging guide, the packaging recipes, information about ubuntu development processes and stuff and links to more videos
<dholbach> karmic is almost "in the bag" now, but Lucid could be YOUR release cycle :)
<maco> konstantin: welcome :)
<konstantin> i expected you guys to trash me *haha
<maco> (go check out his other vids of howtos...very useful!)
<konstantin> very nice in here
<maco> that wouldnt be very ubuntu :P
<dholbach> konstantin: and be sure to ask your questions in here - we appreciate you helping out
<konstantin> wow! Packaging Training is this Thursday at 7 am in switzerland that's early
<konstantin> i try to join you then
<dholbach> konstantin: I don't think there's a session planned atm
<dholbach> we're figuring out something there
<konstantin> cool
<mpt> Does apt treat "Breaks:" without a less-than clause identically to "Conflicts:"?
<hyperair> can someone here run `dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE`?
<hyperair> someone here running 32-bit ubuntu
<randomaction> hyperair: i486-linux-gnu
<hyperair> alright thanks
<randomaction> hyperair: (karmic i386)
<hyperair> thanks.
<hyperair> so it's not my chroot acting weird
<hyperair> so how do i go about getting the $host as autotools would detect it?
<hyperair> from debian/rules, that is
<konstantin> does anybody know why karmic doesn't ship with pidgin?
<jdong> konstantin: it was decided to ship Telepathy instead
<konstantin> because it uses D-Bus?
<joaopinto> konstantin, because empathy was selected as the default
<joaopinto> for multiple reasons, gnome integration being one of them
<ari-tczew> It's not the time for wondering "why?"
<konstantin> oh ok ... just trying to figure out how to seek out fitting software
<CarlFK> is there a script to make a  dpatch-run .patch file using cvs diff?
<fabrice_sp> CarlFK, you can use dpatch-edit-patch <patch-name> and apply the diff inside the shell
<ari-tczew> CarlFK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/303023/
 * kees joins the rest of motu and hugs ScottK too :)
<jcastro> omg kittens!
 * quadrispro gives ScottK an hug and a beer
 * micahg isn't a MOTU but wants to give ScottK a hug anyways :)
<CarlFK> fabrice_sp: ari-tczew - thanks
<fabrice_sp> yw
<fabrice_sp> 86 packages are not installable because of unmets. It's better than Intrepid, if I remember correctly
<fabrice_sp> Better than Jaunty, I wanted to say
<micahg> \sh: is there a reason that zend framework doesn't install dojo?
<Buuntu> hi, can I request a mentor here?
<maco> Buuntu: asking on the mailing list might work better :)
<Buuntu> maco: link?
<maco> Buuntu: universe is already frozen for karmic, so i think things'll be a little calm til lucid opens up
 * maco looks
<porthose>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Junior_Contributor
<dtchen> ubuntu-motu@lists
<maco> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
<Buuntu> thanks
 * maco goes to read the wiki link
<maco> never saw that before
<zooko> #l
<zooko> oops
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-28
<fabrice_sp> Hi. As a MOTU, I can upload to -proposed?
<fabrice_sp> Argh, it seems so, and I didn't uploaded the right one :-/ Can some archive admin reject jmagick 6.2.6-0-4ubuntu2?
<ScottK> Sure
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Done
<fabrice_sp> thanks :-)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: You can upload, but you need a motu-sru ack before it gets accepted.
<fabrice_sp> ok. I opened a bug report, like a 'normal' SRU, just in case, so it's ok. Should have looked at non installable packages before final freeze :-/
<ScottK> We got a lot done in the last few days.
<fabrice_sp> sure :-) I still remember the more than 1000 packages that FTBFS not so long ago. Down to 538 now, so not that bad
<mdomsch> fabrice_sp, we got fedora 12 down to about 30 FTBFS
<ScottK> mdomsch: Very impressive.
<ScottK> I saw your blog post about that.
<mdomsch> credit to debian for the concept
<ScottK> mdomsch: One thing that's kind of interesting is if you look at http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ you see 389 FTBFS in the archive, but if you look at http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html from a test rebuild, you find 585.
<ScottK> So we have a lot of binaries that we could't build today if we needed to.  This worries me.
 * fabrice_sp has a plane to catch. Bye!
<micahg> ScottK: I found a request to package something I want in debian, but no one seems to be working on it, can/should I file a bug in LP and mark debian upstream bug and try to get the package in debian?
<ScottK> micahg: Yes.
<ScottK> Tag the Ubuntu bug 'needs-packaging'.
<micahg> also, since I want to work on it, should I assign to myself?  I don't think I'll get to it for a couple months though
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Do keep in mind when Lucid feature freeze is.
<micahg> ok
<lifeless> I wouldn't assign it if you aren't going to touch it for months
<lifeless> leave it unassigned until you start on it
<lifeless> its more accurate
<ScottK> True.
<ScottK> Maybe a comment you intend to do it.
<micahg> ok
<porthose> micahg, you may want to check the BTS for an ITP bug to see if anyone in debian is working on it and if not open one :)
<dholbach> good morning
<SevenMachines> morning
<ScottK> Anyone around that can change the topic?
<dholbach> ScottK: can you tell me what you want in there?
<ScottK> dholbach: Something about Karmic being frozen solid and work on SRUs.
* dholbach changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Karmic is frozen solid now! Prepare SRUs! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck | latest rebuild failures: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<dholbach> ScottK: better? :)
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Yes
<dholbach> alrightiy
<Laney> can't we have -t?
<aboudreault> Should a html demo be in /usr/share/doc/packageX/examples/ or in /usr/share/packageX/examples ?
 * Laney cuddles jpds
<Laney> aboudreault: use dh_installexamples
<aboudreault> ha, and everything will be done automagically
<aboudreault> Can we pu directly a tar.gz in the debian/ directory? or we have to uuencode it?
<slytherin> aboudreault: why do you want to do that?
<aboudreault> to add a demo in the doc package
<slangasek> aboudreault: you don't really want to do that; the debian/ directory is going to be gzipped again to create a .diff.gz - you should include files individually instead
<slangasek> (and if they're binary files, uuencode them, yes)
<aboudreault> ok, just wanted to be sure that I needed to uuencode them. thx
<ScottK> jdong or cody-somerville: Would one of you please ack Bug #462619
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 462619 in pyproj "pyproj FTBFS on all non-i386 archs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462619
<jdong> ScottK: you're acked
<ScottK> jdong: Thanks.
<jdong> sure thing
<sebner> huhu bddebian
<sebner> mighty ScottK ^^
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi sebner
<ScottK> sebner: If you never make a mistake, then you aren't doing much.
<sebner> ScottK: oh, no. I wasn't talking about pyproj but about all the attention you got because of my mail (Of course the other -release guys deserve that too) :)
<ScottK> sebner: Ah, OK.
<ScottK> It was a lot since I was offline all day yesterday, so I got them all together in the evening.
<sebner> hihi
<slytherin> aboudreault: What kind of demos are you including?
<aboudreault> a html demo for an application, cgi.
<slytherin> aboudreault: then it is not a binary file, is it?
<aboudreault> yes there are. the html demo needs data
<slytherin> what kind of data? you mean images?
<aboudreault> images + gis data
<hyperair> sebner: nice coverup ;-)
<sebner> hyperair: haha, it's windows .. :P
<hyperair> xD
<sebner> hyperair: I should avoid the ML now or else I'll get banned or a joke or something like that xD
<hyperair> =p
<aboudreault> so dh_compress will compress examples too.
<Laney> yes
<aboudreault> Do we always need to specify explicitly what we don't want compressed manually? Shouldn't dh_installexamples take care of that?
<Laney> you can exclude files from compression though
<aboudreault> Is that argument is legal? -Xexamples/demo1 ?
<Laney> try it and see
<Laney> maybe just demo1
<aboudreault> k
<joaopinto> why don't we have chromium on universe, stability concerns ?
<ScottK> joaopinto: Bazillions of lines of dupilcated code.
<ScottK> Chromium embedds a copy of every single library it uses.
<joaopinto> that's a reject reason ?
<joaopinto> we have several packages with their own zlib copies :)
<Laney> it's a maintenance nightmare
<ScottK> joaopinto: It depends.  It's a reject reason, but it's not an absolute.   We'd like to have those packages use system libraries when we can.
<ScottK> chromium would be more than a million lines of duplicated code.  No way.
<joaopinto> I am not sure how that improves security from an end user perspective, which will get it frm the ppa
<cemc> o/ there is a clusterssh package, with some problems, see LP #429607. If I try the laster package from Karmic (which doesn't have that problem) can I backport it? how?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429607 in clusterssh "clusterssh messes up copy-paste, inserts wrong characters" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429607
<ScottK> PPA can easily be updated to a new release and if there are regressions, there are regressions.
<aboudreault> If I have a html demo in /usr/share ... but it needs to be modified to work by the user.. what would be the approach ? I think the user is not supposed to modify the file there, right?
<sistpoty|work> actually we do have chromium (src:chromium-bsu)
<sebner> hihi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Different chromium (but I think you knew that)
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: it is? I've thought of the game...
<ScottK> I think we were talking about the web browser
<ScottK> I was anyway
<sebner> sistpoty|work just thinks about games :P
<sistpoty|work> haha, didn't knew there is a web-browser called chromium *g*
<sistpoty|work> didn't know even
<sebner> xD
<kees> ScottK: hah! just read your blog about the lost bag.  that _rocks_
<kees> (well, not that it was lost, but that ubuntu rocks)  :)
<ScottK> kees: United can't buy publicity like that.
<kees> hehe
<kees> did you have to ship it, or did United end up footing the bill for the return?
<ScottK> We had to ship it.
 * kees nods
<ScottK> United said not their problem.
<kees> and in their main hub, too.  sheesh
<ScottK> Unlike the guy in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo&feature=player_embedded I wasn't going to spend 9 months calling and complaining.
<kees> hehe
<ScottK> It's been years since I was willing to fly them because they were always cancelling flights on me with no notice, so I figured I'd give them another chance.
<kees> yeah, I've been pretty unimpressed with United.  that said, I haven't really had _good_ experiences with many US carriers.  Probably the most fun I've had has been with Southwest; their staff tend to be a lot of fun, even if the cabin is cramped.
<ScottK> I'm a big fan of Southwest. Jet Blue is pretty good too.
<cemc> is there a problem with keyserver.ubuntu.com? I'm trying to apt-key my PPA key and it's just sitting there
<cemc> heh, never mind, it just moved
<sebner> mok0: of course I said self-hugging :P
<kees> ScottK: hrm, I've never done this in universe before, but I need to do an SRU of new upstream release (now in Debian) as the prior release totally fails due to new Perl library APIs.  Should I just wait for Lucid to open, sync, and then do an upload based on that?
<jdong> *puts on SRU hat*
<jdong> we should  SRU Karmic without waiting for Lucid IMO
<jdong> I'm not sure how sync+SRU would work in this particular case; my gut feeling would just be to prepare a SRU versioned upload based on the new debian release
<RainCT> isn't this (not waiting) what has always been done?
<Laney> this is a difficult case with respect to versioning
<jdong> RainCT: correct
<jdong> RainCT: but in this case, the oddball part is sync-new-version-from-debian
<Laney> what about a backports style version?
<jdong> I think -1ubuntu0.1 would work just fine versioning.
<jdong> that's not a huge concern
<jdong> well
<Laney> that's greater than -1
<Laney> ~ubuntu0.1
<jdong> are there no Ubuntu changes?
 * jdong doesn't even know which package is in question :)
<Laney> the rule is usually "don't forget about the next release", right?
<Laney> and a straight (auto)sync would cover that
<micahg> why not treat it like when we get a higher upstream but want to insure sync..-0ubuntu1?
<soren> kees: You could SRU it into Karmic and ask for it to be pocket-copied to Lucid?
<kees> soren: can we sync to karmic-updates directly?
<soren> kees: Well... karmic-proposed, I suppose.
<kees> ah
<soren> kees: I don't see any technical reason why we couldn't other than perhaps the tools the AA's use to do it may not have an option for it.
 * kees files a bug
<ScottK> We'll want that for Lucid anyway.
<ajmitch> I'm guessing it'll be a week or so until lucid is open for uploads?
<JontheEchidna> generally a week or two, yeah
<slangasek> shouldn't be an "or two", given that the toolchain is being kept conservative for LTS
<ajmitch> I wasn't sure what "toolchain conservatively uploaded" meant - whether that meant it could be later, or just few changes
<JontheEchidna> oh, that's nice to hear :)
<ajmitch> I see that the LTS page states that we'll be syncing from debian testing this time round, rather than unstable
<saml> what's motu?
<saml> message of today?
<saml> unicorn
<jpds> !motu | saml
<ubottu> saml: motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<saml> motu has digital performer
<saml> oh i see
<dtchen> heh, not *that* Motu.
<chunknuts> doesn't syncing from testing for the LTS (instead of unstable) mean that some of the packages in Karmic will be newer than some of the packages in Lucid?
<soren> chunknuts: In those cases, we'll stick with what we've got.
<micahg> is that policy final?
<chunknuts> ahhhh i c -- smart move
<chunknuts> no sense in going backwards
<chunknuts> thanks soren!
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-29
<micahg> is anyone having trouble apt-pinning in karmic?
<icarus_> Could someone offer a quick tip ? I'm packaging via debhuild which rounds off by calling lintian which seems particularly fussy about even the slightest of things (*sigh*). I keep getting this: 'source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 3.4' and I know it's got to do with adding a minor package version number, but where ? to what ?
<ajmitch> what have you got as the version number in debian/changelog?
<icarus_> 3.4, nothing else. Is this where I need to add the minor packaging version number ? Seeing as it's the first package it would be 3.4-0.1 ?
<lifeless> icarus_: so, the fact its an NMU is alarming
<lifeless> icarus_: as we don't do NMUs in ubuntu
<ScottK> icarus_: 3.4-0ubuntu1
<maxb> ScottK: not 3.4ubuntu1 ?
<ScottK> maxb: Not unless it's a native package which is almost certainly not the case here.
<maxb> oh, I was assuming the lack of hyphen in the lintian message meant it was native
<ScottK> No it meant he didn't put a revision in, not that it was a good idea.
<dholbach> is it out yet^W^W^W^Wgood morning!
<ara> dholbach, hehehehe
<ara> dholbach, morning!
<dholbach> hi ara
<dholbach> hi noodles775
<noodles775> G'day dholbach :)
<\sh> congrats guys for doing a good release (especially our non payed folks :))
<aboudreault> emm
<aboudreault> I have a launchpad PPA that contains a package who has the exact same version number than package in main universe.
<aboudreault> The package in uninstallable.
<aboudreault> Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/p/proj/proj-data_4.6.1-5_i386.deb  Size mismatch
<aboudreault> That's the error of apt-get.
<aboudreault> I think apt-get keep the "size" from the last ppa in the sources.list.
<aboudreault> but try to install the universe one
<slytherin> aboudreault: How come it has same version?
<aboudreault> slytherin: the package has been copied from jaunty (which has an older version) and now karmic have an up-to-date version
<aboudreault> but apt-get should just be able to deal with that.. no?
<noodles775> See https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage#Versioning
<joaopinto> his point is there might be a bug on apt dealing with this scenario :P
<noodles775> ah, sorry.
<aboudreault> yes, np.
<ScottK> No, that's apt doing exactly the right thing.
<ScottK> It'd be a security risk if it didn't.
<joaopinto> ScottK, hum ? providing an incorrect error message without reporting the exact problem ?
<ScottK> It's noticing that the package doesn't match what it's expecting.
<ScottK> No, I think it's exactly reporting what it's seeing wrong.
<joaopinto> if having different packages with the same version available from different repositories is not supported, it should report that
<aboudreault> ScottK: Why that ? If a package in a PPA doesn't have a higher version, the universe one should be keep.
<joaopinto> the size mismatch could be a regular security breach scenario, which is not the case
<ScottK> aboudreault: How does it know which one to keep?
<aboudreault> ScottK: with the order in sources.list
<ScottK> aboudreault: That's relatively arbitrary.  I think it's safer to be conservative and not install if there is doubt.
<joaopinto> well, on the other end you may be right, because there is no way for apt to check the filzesize before getting it :P
<aboudreault> ok, I'll reupload the package on launchpad for that. I just found that behavior strange.
 * ScottK runs off for a while.  
<joaopinto> aboudreault, apt-get install mirror selection logic is not "pick the first" when you have multiple sources for the same package, afaiak
<joaopinto> erm, wait, apt does fetch Packages for each of it's sources
<joaopinto> so it should report size mismatches for the same package+version with different sizes
<aboudreault> joaopinto: yes, but it certainly store the "package size" of the higher version somewhere, and that size should be modified ONLY if a package is strictly higher than the last package version read.
<joaopinto> during apt-get update
<joaopinto> aboudreault, actually it stores the package size for each of the sources, I mean, at least it downloads it
<joaopinto> the best thing apt could do would be to report the mismatch on the cache update
<aboudreault> but there is no size mismatch, there is simply 2 package with the same version ;)
<aboudreault> anyway, I'm know apt does the proper thing, so I'll just upload again the package
<aboudreault> thanks for your comments
<directhex> sources.list priority isn't based on order
<bddebian> Heya gang
<directhex> check "apt-cache policy packagename" to see the priorities assigned to various mirrors
<joaopinto> aboudreault, there is a size mismatch, that is why you get the error message, there is a mismatch between the size recorded on APT and the size from the http downloaded file
<iulian> Hi bddebian.
<aboudreault> directhex: I see that the ppa is the first one in version table section. However, apt-get tries to dowload it from universe
<aboudreault> joaopinto: yes, I understand that.
<aboudreault> and apt-cache show only show the one from universe.
<directhex> aboudreault, if both repos have the same pin priority, it shouldn't be trying to download from either, it should be spitting out the mismatch
<aboudreault> I did not modify the pin priority (I'm in a pbuilder chroot)
<joaopinto> they are both regular repositories, they have the same pin priority, unless you did manual pinning :P
<aboudreault> that's it, same priority.
<bddebian> Heya iulian
<directhex> at which point apt has no sensible way to resolve the situation you describe
<directhex> you have two repos, with two identically versioned packages, but size and md5sum differ - which package is "correct"?
<directhex> the right answer is "neither until proven otherwise"
<aboudreault> it those cases, it tries to download the package and report immediatly a size mismatch
<aboudreault> that's ok then
<joaopinto> directhex, but apt could report the mismatch during apt cache update
<mok0> Let's fix this guys: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/oct/29/windows7-usage-guardian
<mok0> "Windows 7 overtakes Linux at the Guardian"
<dholbach> congratulations highvoltage
<highvoltage> thanks again dholbach
 * highvoltage is now a MOTU! \o/
<hyperair> congrats!
<Kamujin> mok0: Is that a dupe of Ubuntu Problem #1?
<mok0> Kamujin: I'd say it's a new manifestation of bug #1
<ubottu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Timeout)
<mok0> Kamujin: ... or Linux users just don
<mok0> 't read the Guarian
<mok0> Guardian
<mok0> can't seem to hit the right keys
<ScottK> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpatrick!
<soren> ?
<ScottK> Would someone change /topic to say we've released please
<ScottK> soren: ^^
<wgrant> I see no +t
<wgrant> Doesn't need an op.
* soren changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu 9.10 released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck | latest rebuild failures: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<soren> wgrant: Good call.
<mok0> highvoltage: congrats!!
<highvoltage> thanks mok0
<mok0> highvoltage: too bad the archive is closed :-)
<highvoltage> mok0: for now.... :)
<MsMaco> so how long after a release do we need to wait to start trying to sru stuff?
<ScottK> MsMaco: Not at all
<ScottK> MsMaco: The first Univese SRU was uploaded 3 days ago.
<MsMaco> ScottK: great!
 * MsMaco waits for pbuilder test build to finish
 * siretart` can't await that lucid opens :-)
<Laney> siretart`: grand plans?
<siretart`> not really, perhaps breaking ffmpeg a bit
<Laney> we all love some of that
<Laney> wondering when I'm going to upgrade already ;)
<\sh> highvoltage, congrats on motuship :)
<highvoltage> thanks \sh! I'm very excited about it
<Laney> get to SRUing!
<MsMaco> sponsor needed for an SRU on bug 415766
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415766 in openafs "evince makes openafs to kernel oops" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415766
<MsMaco> thanks much whomever gets to it
<Amaranth> congrats highvoltage
<highvoltage> thanks Amaranth!
<ScottK> zooko: You've got to be feeling pretty good about your binutils find.  Did you see the fix is currently building for karmic-proposed?
<slacker_nl> congratz highvoltage
<slacker_nl> and everyone gg on the release :)
<hyperair> :)
<ScottK> jdong: I created karmic-backports.
<corp186> I have a question about creating both a binary arch-dependent pkg and an arch-independent package using cdbs
<corp186> is there a good forum for questions, or should I ask here?
<joaopinto> corp186, this is the proper channel, once someone becomes available to reply :P
<corp186> I have a source package using cdbs, it builds a binary package and a -dbg package
<randomaction> ScottK: Re bug 406721: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports currently says that a *-backports bug should be confirmed if the test build has succeeded. Is it not the case now?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 406721 in vidalia "Request: Backport Vidalia 1.15 to Jaunty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406721
<randomaction> (Actually, I have marked some more bugs confirmed on the grounds that they test-built.)
<corp186> I want to create a third package that just installs a header file as a -dev package
<corp186> until now, cdbs did all the hard work of figuring out how to package files
<corp186> but now I need to split files into two different packages
<corp186> so how do I tell it which file goes where?
<joaopinto> corp186, debian/package-dev.install
<ScottK> randomaction: We really need to update that since not everyone can mark Triaged, so Confirmed really needs to mean b/i/r.
<corp186> joaopinto: is there documentation on how that file works?
<corp186> I haven't been able to find any
<corp186> mostly cause google search for ".install" doesn't work too well
<randomaction> ScottK: OK, I'll unconfirm that stuff, but I guess I can't update the Help page
<joaopinto> corp186, thats how dh_install works, man dh_install :)
<ScottK> I think you can.  It's a wiki.
<joaopinto> corp186, the man includes an example for a -dev package ;)
<corp186> joaopinto: great!
<corp186> do I need to specify package.install now as well?
<corp186> I didn't have to before
<joaopinto> corp186, cdbs rules include a dh_install class
<jdong> ScottK: awesome, thank you
<joaopinto> erm, s/class/call
<jdong> randomaction / ScottK: Agreed with regards to changing the meaning of Confirmed
<jdong> we should consider the use of tagging to mark the "Yeah it builds but needs testing" phase
<randomaction> I also propose to advertise ubuntu-backports-testers PPA as a centralized place to upload packages for testing.
<Laney> who can upload there?
<jdong> Laney: free-for-all unfortunately.
<Laney> then no thanks
<jdong> joining the ubuntu-backports-testers (open membership) team
<jdong> randomaction: I'm brainstorming on a way of automating that
<jdong> i.e. so that a "trustable" bot does the upload.
<Laney> Launchpad could just grow a way to copy packages to older releases in PPAs
<jdong> having the equivalent functionality of the Archive admin make backport script exposed in the Launchpad UI would help
<randomaction> jdong: That would be good. The help page has been saying "Stay tuned for info" for a while now :)
<jdong> randomaction: very true indeed :)
<ScottK> jdong: Since I am an archive admin, it would be very helpful.
<jdong> ScottK: yeah, we should aim in the Lucid cycle to hash out a way with Launchpad to make the backports process more integrated
<ScottK> jdong: I also reproposed the not automatic spec for Lucid.  I'll be at UDS to push it.
<jdong> ScottK: awesome. Yeah I saw that in my inbox
<corp186> how can I prevent cdbs from deleting the build area if the build fails?
<highvoltage> thanks slacker_nl :)
<james_w> sync requests already?! :-)
<james_w> go enjoy the release people
<ajmitch> james_w: or just sign up to lucid-changes & start preparing SRUs for the pile of broken things :)
<kklimonda> james_w, releases are overrated ;)
<kklimonda> james_w, it's development what's interesting :)
<ajmitch> it's only about 9 weeks until LTSDebianImportFreeze, according to the release schedule
<jcastro> ScottK: I am only just now realizing the luck you had hitting chicago with nixternal on his big mountain sabbatical
<jcastro> had he been in town there would have been a trail of debauchery and mayhem
<ajmitch> surely he's a well-mannered gentleman?
<ajmitch> right?
<dtchen> "enjoy the release?" what, with the flood of bugs? pssht.
<chrisccoulson> bugs? you mean that there are still bugs? ;)
<chrisccoulson> :)
<ajmitch> noone will be complaining about audio though, all the drivers are perfect there :)
<sebner> wondering more about the kernel bug with ext4 which destroys files >500mb
<joaopinto> they just complain about no sound after upgrade or sound being muted at each reboot :)
<dtchen> yeah, thankfully I can now pin that one on pulse
<ajmitch> sebner: got a reference for that one?
<sebner> ajmitch: well it's under known issues for the release notes even .. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/453579
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 453579 in ubuntu-release-notes "corruption of large files reported with linux 2.6.31-14.46 on ext4" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ajmitch> as if I'd read release notes
<sebner> heh
 * sebner neither
<sebner> but just read about it somewhere
<ajmitch> but it does make me glad that my karmic install is still only using ext3 if it's a serious problem
<sebner> ajmitch: I used ext4 since jaunty but I plan to re-install on weekend ^^
<ajmitch> getting a different md5sum after a sync looks a bit scary
<dtchen> well, even with ext3, you may want to read http://ozlabs.org/~rusty/index.cgi/2009/10/20 if you haven't already
<sebner> The only solution is to use btrfs! *cough cough*
<ajmitch> dtchen: though that looks to be more scary errors on power failure than scary errors in normal everyday usage
<dtchen> ajmitch: correct, just something to be aware of
<ajmitch> especially on my wonderful HP laptop which doesn't report the discharge rate of the battery
<ajmitch> g-p-m doesn't give any warnings of low battery or "shutdown now!"
<jdong> sebner: oh btrfs doesn't get along with rough shutdowns at all with GNOME
<jdong> I haven't isolated the exact culprit yet
<ajmitch> some days it feels like nothing is safe
<jdong> sure feels that way
<jdong> (*cough* transactional NTFS6 is pretty robust....)
<ajmitch> it'll have its flaws :)
<jdong> indeed :)
<jdong> [PATCH] Prevent btrfsck to run on mounted filesystems
<jdong> lol
<jdong> finally
<jdong> that was exceptionally evil!
<jdong> the wiki manual used to say btrfsck is for mounted/unmounted filesystems
<jdong> what they MEANT was to use future tense somewhere in there ;-)
<ajmitch> using it on a mounted fs would completely toast it?
<jdong> ajmitch: yup. Happened to me and confirmed by a dev on the mailing list
<ajmitch> wonderful
<jdong> ajmitch: btrfsck is more of a developers' consistency/sanity checker right now...
<jdong> it's actually remarkably USELESS at fixing anything :)
<ajmitch> for some reason I like to keep my data around
<jdong> me too :)
<jdong> my BTRFS karmics don't store anything persistent :)
<ajmitch> maybe I could try it in virtualbox
<jdong> it's not too bad to set up. Fun exercise left to the reader for how to make grub-probe (grub2) not blow up
<jdong> and oh yeah. btrfsprogs and btrfs kernel modules need to come from mason's git tree...
<ajmitch> I'm still sticking with grub-legacy
<jdong> a couple known nasties in the 2.6.31 release version :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-30
<JonyBlaze> anyone have any experience building ubuntu packages for qt apps?
<JontheEchidna> JonyBlaze: need help?
<JonyBlaze> JontheEchidna: can you use pbuilder just like any source with a qt app?
<JontheEchidna> yep, you can
<JonyBlaze> do you need to run qmake first?
<JontheEchidna> you use it like any other source package, build the source package then pbuild it
<JontheEchidna> You'll want to include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/qmake.mk and /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk in your debian/rules file, then do debuild -S -sa like any other package
<JontheEchidna> then you can pbuild the resulting .dsc
<JonyBlaze> ah i see
<JonyBlaze> thank you
<JontheEchidna> you're welcome. Feel free to ask any questions
<wrapster> when i run this.. everything works fine but only the 64bit libs are present 32 is not at all there..
<wrapster> http://pastie.org/675753
<wrapster> i successfully compiled for both 64and 32...but did some goof up that I cannot recollect now.. and paying a price...
<wrapster> could anyone pls look at that and let me know how to get the copy_64 , copy_back working?
<wrapster> pls...
<wrapster> mind you that the rest of the script is perfect.. its some juggling act that needs to be done with the targs thats.. all...
<wrapster> Damn i didnt have a bkup
<wrapster> can anyone look into it pls
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> Good morning dholbach!
<dholbach> hi RAOF
<highvoltage> good morning!
<Rocha> good morning everyone
<Rocha> i'd like to fix a bug in ubuntu but i don't know how
<Rocha> it's related to the network proxy dialog
<Rocha> how can i get the code for it to try to fix the bug?
<azeem> apt-get source package-name
<Rocha> that would help if i knew which package contains the network proxy dialog box
<Rocha> how can i know that?
<azeem> Rocha: what is the filename of the dialog?
<Rocha> i have no clue, how can i know which binary file the menu item is calling?
<azeem> I don't know either, you will have to do some research
<Rocha> ok, let me try
<azeem> I think most of those preference dialogs start with gnome-, like gnome-foo-preferences
<Rocha> great, it's gnome-network-properties
<Rocha> now, how can i know which package contains that program?
<azeem> man dpkg
<Rocha> i suppose googling is faster than using man
<micahg> Rocha: dpkg -S filename
<Rocha> micahg, thanks, it worked
<Rocha> it's gnome-control-center
<Rocha> now, apt-get source gnome-control-center i suppose
<Rocha> at least its what's written in Bugs/HowToFix
<^arky^> Hi, Where do I find ubuntu conventions for writing man pages ?
<Rocha> ok, apt-get source says that this package is maintained in bazaar so i should use the bzr get <url> to get the code
<azeem> interesting, didn't know Ubuntu did that
<slytherin> ^arky^: There is no such thing as ubuntu convention for man page
<^arky^> slytherin: then man man-pages should suffice
<^arky^> thanks slytherin
<Rocha> perfect, network proxy is coded in C and i know C =)
<Rocha> i hope i can fix the bug
<slytherin> Rocha: What bug is that by the way?
<Rocha> imagine this use case
<Rocha> i want to add a proxy to the network so i open the dialog, click in "use same proxy for all protocols" and insert the hostname for the proxy
<Rocha> if you click the "use same" before setting the hostname, it doesn't get set in all protocols
<Rocha> you have to deselect the check box for "use same" and select it again
<Rocha> i don't know anything about gtk bug i assume an event is triggered if something is typed in a textbox
<Rocha> so everytime you type something in the http proxy textbox you should check to see if the "use same" checkbox is set, and if it is, copy the hostname and port text boxes to the boxes below for the other protocols
<RAOF_> Rocha: That's a perfectly reasonable assumption :).  More concretely, you'd want to be hooking in to the "text-changed" (or words to that effect) signal on the widget.
<Rocha> i assume that this would be trivial to change for someone who knows C and gtk
<RAOF_> Not necessarily a valid assumption, but could well be :)
<Rocha> since i only know C i guess i can learn gtk and fix the bug
<RAOF_> gtk's actually pretty easy. gobject is a really nice way to do OO C.
<Rocha> i'll sleep much better today by knowing that i've contributed a small patch to the operating system i've been using since 4.10 :D
<Rocha> the file has 1321 lines of code, which is pretty easy to handle
<Rocha> i'll try to fix the bug today and learn gtk as i go along
<RAOF_> The gtk docs are pretty good, too.
<Rocha> great, i'll read them in a second
<RAOF_> (Although they tend to assume a certain amount of familiarity with gobject)
<azeem> Rocha: it's only a visual glitch, I believe whatever you type gets used for all protocols, just not displayed
<Rocha> azeem, that's good to know =)
<Rocha> i haven't tried if they are actually set or not, but visually they don't
<Rocha> strange, the code doesn't call gtk_entry_new to create the widget
<Rocha> is is possible to create the interface without C code?
<Rocha> maybe with an xml spec of the ui?
<Rocha> maybe the ui is defined elsewhere
<Rocha> yup, that's it, gnome-network-properties.ui file
<Rocha> this is really powerfull
<c_korn> hello, when I sign the sources in jaunty there was a graphical input which also cached my passphrase for a time (gpg-agent). in karmic there seems no gpg-agnet running and so I have to type in the passphrase over and over again
<micahg1> c_korn: gpg agent works for me...do you have gnupg-agent
<c_korn> micahg: eh, no. didn't remeber I have to install it manually
<slytherin> c_korn: You need to install seahorse-plugins package
<micahg> ah, that's why I have it
<c_korn> slytherin: do I have to uninstall gpg-agent then ? or does the plugin package depend on it ?
<c_korn> slytherin: ok, just had to run seahorse-agent afterwards. thanks
<Rocha> i tried to create a simple box in gtk and compiling i get this error
<Rocha> "Package gtk+-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path..."
<Rocha> how can i fix this?
<azeem> install the Build-Depends
<directhex> jms@osc-franzibald:~$ apt-file search gtk+-2.0.pc
<directhex> libgtk2.0-dev: /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gtk+-2.0.pc
<Rocha> directhex, thanks, that's what i did
<Rocha> it reported that it needed that .pc file so i searched google to know what package contains that file
<Rocha> used apt-file (didn't have it), installed apt-file and just finished building the apt-file cache
<slytherin> c_korn: seahorse-agent starts automatically at the start of session
<c_korn> slytherin: k
<Rocha> perfect, i can now compile C gtk programs =)
<directhex> pfft, c
<Rocha> the bug i want to fix is a C coded app :)
<Rocha> *is in
 * jpds waves at directhex.
<Rocha> directhex, what language do you prefer?
<directhex> i hear cool kids all use visual basic!
<Rocha> i guess i'm not a cool kid then :D
<Rocha> coding gtk in c is really ugly
<Rocha> code is really verbose
<directhex> well, c
<Rocha> i don't know why people code apps such as network preferences dialog box in C
<Rocha> ridiculous!
<directhex> well, because.
<directhex> the pain of large c gtk+ apps (specifically evolution) is why mono exists, for one.
<Rocha> i shall look into mono
<joaopinto> I thaugt mono was created because of .net, not because of alternatives to C for GUI developments :)
<Rocha> i just started learning gtk with C and this sucks for event a simple window with just one button inside
<Rocha> so i suppose mono should perform well on replacing C
<joaopinto> Rocha, learn python
<joaopinto> python is the prefered language for Ubuntu tools
<Rocha> joaopinto, can you give me a reference for what you're saying please?
<joaopinto> it is written somewhere, will need to search for it
<joaopinto> Rocha, also you probably want to know about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly
<directhex> joaopinto, mono is a .net implementation, yeah, but it was started because senior folks at ximian looked at evolution & realised it sucked, and that a better development environment was worth investing in
<Rocha> i'll look into that later :)
<Rocha> i'm using emacs, what is recommended by the ubuntu community?
<directhex> well, i use monodevelop ;)
<Rocha> i suppose emacs is better for C than monodevelop :D
<directhex> i dunno, MD has integrated debugging for c apps...
<Rocha> emacs too
<directhex> no python support in karmic. will be in lucid
<Rocha> which program is used to create the UI in xml?
<Rocha> i suppose it's not done by hand
<azeem> Rocha: glade
<Rocha> azeem, thanks, i'll definetly look into that
<directhex> Rocha, glade is the most popular option. for c# apps, monodevelop has an integrated designer called stetic
<Rocha> hmm, ok
<Rocha> i guess i have a lot to learn
<Rocha> at least i know C
<Rocha> and it would be great for me to be able to fix this bug
<Rocha> i would love to be an ubuntu contributor :)
<turshu> hello
<turshu> is motu-mentoring-reception@reponses.net still working ?
<turshu> hello there ?
<turshu> anybody here ?
<slytherin> turshu: where did you get that address?
<turshu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Junior_Contributor
<slytherin> turshu: not sure if responses.net is proper domain
<Rocha> what is the package that contains the dev libraries for gnome programs?
<joaopinto> Rocha, if you mean gtk programs, apt-cache search libgtk dev
<Rocha> i mean gnome programs, not gtk
<Rocha> i'm trying to compiler gnome-control-center
<randomaction> Rocha: you can install all build dependencies with apt-get build-dep <packagename>
<Rocha> thanks, i'll try that
<Rocha> perfect, it worked
<Rocha> if you were heidi klum i would kiss you right now
<fpr02> hi, i was wondering if someone could help me with trying to get a significant bug with runit fixed in karmic?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<slytherin> fpr02: which bug are you talking about?
<aidave> hello
<aidave> i am having a very difficult time trying to get my .desktop file to show up in karmic
<slytherin> aidave: what kind of difficulty?
<aidave> it used to work.  now it doesnt appear.  i tried copying it exactly from abiword and still nothing
<fpr02> slytherin: #439049
<aidave> here is my deb installer: https://launchpad.net/kabikaboo
<aidave> could someone take a look, install, and see what is going on?  i am at a loss
<aidave> it installs to /usr/share/applications/kabikaboo.desktop
<aidave> but doesnt showup
<aidave> this is driving me nuts! :)
<slytherin> aidave: Can you please paste your .desktop file somewhere?
<aidave> sure
<aidave> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aidave/kabikaboo/packaging/annotate/head%3A/kabikaboo_1.6/forms/kabikaboo.desktop
<slytherin> fpr02: looks to be an ideal candidate for sru
<slytherin> aidave: Does this file validate with desktop-file-validate?
<aidave>  i dont know, i wasnt aware of that program
<aidave> its validating, but still not showing up
<aidave> i did modify it a bit to validate with no warnings
<aidave> but no... nothing
<fpr02> slytherin: OK, how do I proceed?
<slytherin> fpr02: have you ever modified ubuntu packages before?
<fpr02> slytherin: i've got fair experience modifying and building debian packages
<fpr02> slytherin: presumably i need to upload a debdiff or modified package somewhere. I'm have a little trouble finding the exact process on the wiki.
<directhex> debdiff -> bug page on launchpad
<slytherin> fpr02: debdiff is easy. Let's say you have source for app foobar version 1.0-0ubuntu1. You modify the source, add a new changelog entry in debian/changelog, create new source package (debuild -S). then 'debdiff oldversion.dsc newversion.dsc > somefile.debdiff'
<fpr02> slytherin: so i should create a debdiff and attach to the bug report?
<slytherin> fpr02: yes. And then subscribe the appropriate sru team to the bug.
<aidave> can someone please help figure out why this desktop menu item does not appear: https://launchpad.net/kabikaboo/+download
<Rocha> i'm having a problem with the gnome-control-center bug i'm trying to fix
<Rocha> my code compiles fine
<Rocha> but the program doesn't run because it's looking for a file in the wrong place
<Rocha> it is trying to open the glade ui from /usr/local/share
<Rocha> how can i change that?
<ari-tczew> delete your patch ?
<slytherin> Rocha: How did you compile the program?
<aidave> can someone please help figure out why this desktop menu item does not appear: https://launchpad.net/kabikaboo/+download
<quadrispro> dholbach: translating by using MoinMoin -> ARGH!
<quadrispro> :'(
<dholbach> quadrispro: do you think you can join the packaging-docs team in LP and we discuss it on the ML there?
<dholbach> the list is still very new
<dholbach> but it'd be a very good topic
<quadrispro> yes, I can
<dholbach> super thanks
<ari-tczew> when lucid will be open?
<quadrispro> actually, translating this way will make me crazy
<quadrispro> :)
<dholbach> quadrispro: at least we can use what you already did, no matter what new idea we come up with :)
<quadrispro> we can use the GNOME way, by using xml docs
<gaspa> dholbach: Hi! how's going on with harvest? -EHANG? ;)
<dholbach> gaspa: that might well be
<dholbach> gaspa: we need a hand to get https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~harvest-dev/harvest/django going
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Harvest/NewUI
<dholbach> in that case it'll be much more fun again to make use of harvest
<dholbach> and I also could get it more easily on a canonical machine :)
<dholbach> the current code is very ugly
<gaspa> dholbach: I'm at floor level, with django, perhaps I'm not the right person to help you :P
<dholbach> if you're a web person, we need you :-)
<fpr02> slytherin: OK, I believe I've done that.
<gaspa> dholbach: :P I'm not exactly a web person :P
<dholbach> you use it!
<dholbach> ok, I shut up now
<gaspa> :D
<dholbach> in any case we need to get harvest-django rolling during lucid
<dholbach> it'll make the world a better place
<gaspa> is there a todo list?
<gaspa> (yes, it is...)
<Rocha> slytherin: i've fixed the bug, i just need to change the --prefix in ./configure
<gaspa> erhm... empty...
<c_korn> I have a question about dh7: I override the dh_install target to first call dh_install and then remove some files from the installation directory afterwards. problem is that I remove files in a package which is arch indep and so the installation directory is not created for archs other than i386. is there a way (other than using rm -f) to somehow make a difference between archs ?
<dholbach> gaspa: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Harvest/NewUI has mockups
<dholbach> gaspa: I'll try to have a chat with a bunch of web people about it to try to figure out what needs doing
<dholbach> or rather which steps they'd take to implement it
<gaspa> nothing "backend" ? :P
<dholbach> the backend is mostly done I'd say
<gaspa> ok
<dholbach> I did a bunch of it, I'm sure it's going to need to be extended over time
<gaspa> dholbach: well, in the meantime I'll prepare my pages for lucid... (I 'm asking how many people use them... apart quadrispro)
<dholbach> we'll still use that data with the new harvest
<dholbach> I guess when the new harvest is usable and fun, there's going to be more people making use of the data :)
<gaspa> and not the pages, that's cool ... I (graphically) hate them :P
<dholbach> you can help
<dholbach> anyway  - I'm heading out now
 * quadrispro fighting against MoinMoin
<dholbach> have a great WE
<dholbach> and thanks for your work
<carresmd> what's happening to the keyserver? It has been down for days now... (sorry if this isn't the right place, but I was redirected here by someone in #ubunu)
<carresmd> you guys were supposed to know more about the keyserver according to the guy that send me here
<geser> carresmd: you want to fetch a PPA key?
<carresmd> geser, no I need to add my key to launchpad
<proppy> Hi, it seems jikes is not available in karmic universe
<proppy> while http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/jikes-classpath is
<proppy> (and depends on it)
<carresmd> geser, I've send the key to pgp.mit.edu instead. But that was useless as they don't sync when keyserver.ubuntu.com is down or whatever it is.
<Rocha> what is the signal emitted by a spinbutton when i change it's text without using the arrows?
<Rocha> i thought it would be "changed" because it's a subclass of GtkEntry
<Rocha> but it doesn't work
<geser> carresmd: in that case #launchpad would probably be better to ask or directly in the channel with the canonical sysadmins (but I forgot it's name :( )
<proppy> it seems removed from debian unstable as well
<carresmd> geser, could it be #canonical-sysadmin ?
<geser> carresmd: yes, sound about right
<proppy> (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=508366)
<ubottu> Debian bug 508366 in ftp.debian.org "RM: jikes -- RoQA; out of date, orphaned, buggy" [Normal,Closed]
<proppy> nvm, I'll install it from jaunty
<ScottK> proppy: Don't plan on using it long term.  It's just an error that I missed asking for jikes-classpath removal.
<ScottK> proppy: IIRC you worked on poker-network before.  Any interest in fixing ours to be installable again?
<aidave> can someone please help figure out why this desktop menu item does not appear: https://launchpad.net/kabikaboo/+download
<proppy> ScottK: sure, but there is a lot of movement upstream currently
<proppy> ScottK: poker-network 2.0 is in development, and the upstream pushed the last 1.x stable to debian
<ScottK> proppy: The version we have in Karmic is uninstallable due to depending on python-xml (which we removed due to a variety of reasons).  If we could just get that fixed, that'd be a big win for now.
<proppy> ScottK: do you have pb with installation of 1.7.5-1.1 ?
<proppy> ScottK:
<proppy> sure, I recently commited a fix for this upstream
<ScottK> Dunno.  Does it depend on python-xml?
<proppy> the new control.karmic in upstream should do the trick
<proppy> w8
<proppy> ScottK: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/pokersource?rev=6305&view=rev
<proppy>  Wed Oct 21 12:09:26 2009 CEST (9 days, 6 hours ago)
<proppy> :)
<proppy> ScottK: sorry I should have pushed it here, before karmic release date
<proppy> ScottK: wierd http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/python-poker-network states Package: python-poker-network (1.6.0-1.2ubuntu1)
<proppy> but there is http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/p/poker-network/poker-network_1.7.4-2ubuntu1.dsc
<proppy> ScottK: should I ask a sync ?
<jdong> heh now this is just sad.... Flash running in WINE.
<proppy> for 1.7.5 ?
<randomaction> Whom do I subscribe to an SRU bug? motu-sru, u-u-s, or both?
<randomaction> Or ubuntu-sru?
<c_korn> why does the phonon package provide phonon-backend ? shouldn't some backend do this ? (and the backends already do so)
<jdong> randomaction: if it's a universe package, motu-sru
<jdong> randomaction: for Universe, we'd prefer a motu-sru ACK before an upload
<jdong> for main, the ubuntu-sru team seems to not care, or prefer the other way around
<randomaction> ok, it's a universe package, so subscribed motu-sru
<aidave> does anyone know how to use dpkg-buildpackage to hit all targets?
<aidave> like -iaall or something
<aidave> my program is python and not compiled so i dont really need 64/32 bits
<proppy> ScottK: here ?
<c_korn> can someone please help me with that debian/rules file ? http://pastebin.com/d6dcb6a92 I want to override the binary-indep target so the files get removed from the arch indep upp-data package. but in the build log it seems that binary-indep is also not called on an i386 arch.
<corp186> I have a project I'm ready to release, and I would like to prepare it for getting into lucid as well
<corp186> the source is in a lp bzr repo
<corp186> I build packages from the branch using bzr bd
<corp186> so I don't have release tarballs
<Rocha> ok, i've fixed my first ubuntu/gnome bug
<Rocha> to whom should i send the changes and how?
<corp186> is it required to have ubuntu packages based around release tarballs and diffs, or can my bzr branch be the source package itself?
<siretart`> corp186: the source package format requires the sources to be available as tarballs. the buildscripts are in most cases added as "diff"
<corp186> siretart`: when you say "the source package format requires the sources to be avaialble as tarballs", are you meaning build wise or ubuntu-wise?
<corp186> because lp builds the packages just fine the way they are
<randomaction> Rocha: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<siretart`> the source package format defines a non-native source package as a .dsc file, a .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz
<siretart`> lp buildds only accept this kind of source package for ppas
<randomaction> Rocha: see also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates if you want your fix included in karmic
<corp186> siretart`: I think I was confusing things in my head: bzr builddeb -S creates my source packages for me
<corp186> so from that standpoint, are source packages created by bzr bd -S acceptable for inclusion into ubuntu?
<Rocha> randomaction, thanks, i'm also reading Bugs/HowToFix from the wiki
<siretart`> corp186: sure!
<corp186> my concern is partly due to the whole "watch" files thing
<siretart`> if you don't have releases, there is no point in checking for a new release
<corp186> I don't know that much about it, but I know that they are supposed to watch for tarball version changes and such
<corp186> I suppose I'll probably cut a release tarball
<corp186> and have a watch file to watch for the release tarballs
<corp186> even though it's not necessary when I'm the maintainer of both the source and the packaging
<ScottK> proppy: Back.
<proppy> ScottK: welcome back :)
<ScottK> proppy: So poker-network is OK just dropping the build-dep.  No other changes needed?
<ScottK> proppy: For Lucid, look at the existing Ubuntu diff and make sure it's all in the Debian package, then ask for sync.
<proppy> ScottK: I'll compute the diff between control.jaunty and control.karmic w8
<Rocha> hmm, creating a deb package with my changes is not easy
<Rocha> i guess i'll try to just send the diff to someone
<proppy> ScottK: yes, http://pastebin.com/f389b0a61 is the only diff in debian dirs
<ScottK> proppy: You might want to suggest to the Debian maintainer that he move to python-support.  Python-central is getting pretty agressively deprecated in Debian.
<proppy> ScottK: I also fixed python path issue with python 2.6
<proppy> http://www.mail-archive.com/pokersource-commits@gna.org/msg05491.html
<ScottK> Rocha: If you can just attach your patch to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors, someone else can make it into a debdiff.  It'll just take longer to get in.
<ScottK> proppy: If I get a fixed poker-network into Karmic, can you test it?
<Rocha> ScottK, i'll try to create a deb myself then
<proppy> ScottK: sure, I could help to get it fixed too
<proppy> what do you want me to do ?
<proppy> "look at the existing Ubuntu diff and make sure it's all in the Debian package" ?
<proppy> ScottK: as I said earlier I'm confused about the ubuntu package in karmic, because source packages seems 1.7.4-2 and binary is 1.6.0-1.2ubuntu1
<ScottK> proppy: That's because 1.7.4-2 failed to build
<proppy> ScottK: is there a bug # for the FTBS ?
<proppy> ah python-xml ?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> I guess
<proppy> looking at http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/p/poker-network/poker-network_1.7.4-2ubuntu1.diff.gz
<ScottK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/poker-network has a lot of failed to install bugs.
<ScottK> I think the only diff was the 2.6 stuff.
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/poker-network/1.7.4-2ubuntu1
<proppy> +  * Merge from Debian unstable, remaining Ubuntu change:
<proppy> +    - debian/python-poker{-network, 2d, -prizes, -stats}.install: use
<proppy> +      wildcards
<proppy> ScottK: ah so ubuntu patch see to be *-packages instead of site-packages in *.install ?
<ScottK> proppy: Yes, because Python 2.6 installs to dist-packages
<proppy> ScottK: I can forward this patch to upstream, but it will go in 2.0
<ScottK> OK.
<proppy> ScottK: I'm not sure the maintainer can do another 1.7.5 upload in debian
<proppy> I'll ask
<ScottK> Can it go into Debian?
<ScottK> Why not?
<ScottK> I can have it NMU'ed if you'd prefer.
<proppy> ScottK: because current svn is 2.0
<ScottK> Several DD are on a campaign to get ready for Python 2.6 in Debian.
<ScottK> Shouldn't affect what can go in Debian.
<proppy> ScottK: ah so the trick would be to publish a 1.7.5-2 ?
<proppy> without altering the tarball ?
<ScottK> Yes.  Exactly.
<proppy> ScottK: but make sure that it also in poker-network 2.0 SVN
<ScottK> Yes
<proppy> ScottK: is there a way to get the complete ubuntu patch from a -ubuntu1 packages ?
<proppy> sorry I don't remember
<Rocha> do i need to create a public key for debuild?
<proppy> it is been a long time since I've been involved in MOTU stuff :)
<Rocha> debuild is failing because "secret key not available"
<proppy> at the time there was a thing called DaD and MoM
<Rocha> debsign is aborting with a gpg error
<Rocha> i really need documentation on how to create a package
<ScottK> proppy: http://patches.ubuntu.com/p/poker-network/poker-network_1.7.4-2ubuntu1.patch
<ScottK> Rocha: Pass -us -uc to debuild and it won't sign
 * ScottK is off for a while again
<Rocha> ScottK, thanks
<proppy> ScottK: it's strange because when I build manually poker-network under karmic
<proppy> dpkg -c doesn't anything in site nor dist-packages
<Rocha> perfect, i know have a debdiff =)
<proppy> ScottK: applied ubuntu patch upstream
<proppy> note that poker2d is no more in 2.0
<Rocha> ScottK, i've attached the debdiff to the bug in launchpad
<Rocha> now i need a developer to review my patch
<nanotube> not sure if this is the right place to ask... but: does anyone know why libstdc++5 was removed from universe in karmic? a number of third-party binaries depend on it, could it be reinstated? as it is now one has to manually grab the .deb from jaunty in order to make things work.
<micahg> nanotube: from LP: Deleted        in        karmic-release                                 (Reason:          (From Debian) RoM; obsolete)
<randomaction> nanotube: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=536776
<fabrice_sp_> nanotube, itÂ¡s because gcc-3.3 has been removed. Program that still depends on it should be recompiled
<ubottu> Debian bug 536776 in ftp.debian.org "RM: gcc-3.3" [Unknown,Closed]
<fabrice_sp_> too late :-)
<nanotube> hmm... kinda sucks...
<fabrice_sp_> nanotube: what packages did you find that required it?
<nanotube> fabrice_sp_: specifically, the mozilla thunderbird binary from mozilla.org
<Rocha> i noticed that gnome-control-center has a bzr branch in launchpad
<nanotube> fabrice_sp_: but i've seen people talk about a few others too
<fabrice_sp_> nanotube, Ubuntu has thunderbird in it (I'm using it)
<Rocha> should i also branch it, put my fix there and propose a merge?
<nanotube> fabrice_sp_: yes, i know it has.
<fabrice_sp_> Rocha, you can. Or you can also generate a debdiff
<fabrice_sp_> gcc 3.3 is from 2005...
<Rocha> fabrice_sp_, i generated a debdiff and attached to the bug on launchpad
<chrisccoulson> Rocha - what fix?
<Rocha> chrisccoulson, bug #226748
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226748 in gnome-control-center "The "use the same proxy for all protocols" functionality under the gnome network preferences doesn't work under certain conditions." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226748
<chrisccoulson> Rocha - could you send the patch upstream please?
<Rocha> chrisccoulson, can you give me a link with instructions on how to do that?
<Rocha> chrisccoulson, i only started today with this bug fixing thing, i'm a complete newbie
<chrisccoulson> it looks like a corner case, and probably isn't worth a SRU now. and we already have so many patches in our g-c-c package, that we should avoid applying our own patches without sending them upstream
<ari-tczew> is lucid just open?
<chrisccoulson> Rocha - you can open a bug at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/ , and attach the patch there
<Rocha> chrisccoulson, ok, i'll do that
<chrisccoulson> thanks for your work too
<Rocha> chrisccoulson, i'm glad i could help :)
<Rocha> i'll try to help with other bugs that i find
<chrisccoulson> excellent :)
<chrisccoulson> Rocha - i haven't had a look at your patch in any great detail, but one comment i have is that upstream can be quite picky about formatting ;)
<Rocha> i've found some bugs today and i'll report them on monday (i don't have internet access at home)
<chrisccoulson> it's normally a good idea to stick to the coding style already used in the file you're patching
<Rocha> chrisccoulson, i tried to stick with the coding style
<Rocha> i suppose i haven't changed it
<chrisccoulson> in the case of g-c-c, they tend to use "foo (" rather than "foo(" when calling functions
<chrisccoulson> so there is always a space there
<Rocha> hmmm, i see
<Rocha> if they reject the patch i can surely fix that
<chrisccoulson> just a minor nitpick, because the upstream developers tend to pick up on minor details like that ;)
<Rocha> chrisccoulson, i tried to do copy-pasting of the gtk because i never used gtk
<Rocha> so i guess my code is following the owners own style
<chrisccoulson> that's ok :)
<ScottK> nanotube: Because it was ancient, not supportable, and not needed by anything except proprietary stuff we don't support.
<hyperair> YokoZar: the mesa patch has been accepted upstream, and a debdiff including the patch has been attached (bug #248392)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248392 in ia32-libs "32bit libgl search for dri at wrong place on 64bit system" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248392
<c_korn> if I want to write a new binary target for debian/rules can I still use %: dh $@ or do I have to explicitely write all other targets, like: build: dh $@ ; clean: dh $@ ... ?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<iulian> Hey sistpoty.
<sistpoty> hi iulian
<sistpoty> is lucid already open? (just saw lucid entries in packages.u.c.)
<sebner> huhu sistpoty iulian :D
<sistpoty> oh, just see it now... pre-release freeze
<sistpoty> hi sebner
<sebner> sistpoty: I've seen some toolchain uploads (debhelper) but some other stuff too
 * sistpoty subscribes to lucid-changes
<sebner> sistpoty: As a serious student I just can't use lucid as I only have 1 productive machine *cough* :P
<sistpoty> heh
<sistpoty> oh, damn, I should dist-upgrade to lucid now (hoping that nothing is broken yet *g*)
<sebner> sistpoty: hahaha! no need to. We have nexuiz everywhere! \o/
<sistpoty> :)
<iulian> Hi sebner.
<ScottK> Lucid pbuilder is ready to go.
<JontheEchidna> toolchain's up already?
 * sistpoty believed he had managed to not too much encourage that certain person on -devel. /me was obviously wrong and feels sorry
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Mostly.
<JontheEchidna> that was quick
<ScottK> I just dist-upgraded my karmic pbuilder and I'm making a new one of those.
<lifeless> debootrap patched?
<ScottK> IIRC it was done before release.
<wgrant> Does anybody who watches Debian closer than I know of any timeline for the new source formats?
<ScottK> wgrant: All I know is getting it working was a target of this week's ftp-master sprint and a lot of people want it sooner rather than later.
<ScottK> wgrant: I think it would be risky for Ubuntu to start autosync without support.
<wgrant> ScottK: OK. I'll assume that I'll need to get it CPed during LP 3.1.11, then.
<wgrant> That reminds me, I must also test the syncer.
 * wgrant tries to work out how to do that.
<adurity> Trying to install vim-rails but it has a dependency on vim-full which doesn't exist in Karmic...
<zooko> ScottK: interested in looking for packages which were miscompiled by the bad GNU as?
<sistpoty> zooko: I thought we were clear of them?
<zooko> sistpoty: ah, maybe someone already looked into it and determined that no packages were adversely affected?
<zooko> Last I heard, there was the possibility that some packages in Karmic might have been mis-assembled.
<zooko> Wow us.archive.ubuntu.com is slow today.  :-)
<sistpoty> zooko: I only know about toolchain issues... but I believe these might fall under "miscompiled by as"... do you have a list?
<sistpoty> (just to verify)
<zooko> I don't have a list.  I was thinking of proposing that someone who knows the ubuntu archive system help me generate a list of candidates.
<zooko> First filter would be "the thing was uploaded between the time of the bad binutils and the time of the good binutils".
<zooko> Next criterion would probably be "thing has the string '.intel_syntax' in one of its source files".
<dtchen> zooko: kees responded to you earlier in #ubuntu-devel about that issue
<dtchen> 23:44 < kees> zooko: we did that yesterday and reviewed all the matches --  none were built after the buggy binutils was in the distro.  lucky  us!
<jpds> zooko: Yeah, check out what it's doing, dude: http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/statistics/ftp/monitordata/
<zooko> dtchen: oh, thanks!
<sistpoty> zooko: yes, that was exactly what we triaged already :)
<zooko> Great!  Good work, folks!
<sistpoty> thank kees and ScottK for doing it ;)
<jpds> zooko: FWIW, us.archive does not point at a US mirror, but rather London/Sweden mostly.
<zooko> jpds: hm, so I have a beautifully fast mirror, but it doesn't have the fixed binutils yet, so I switched back to us.archive.
<zooko> Wait, why does "US" .archive live in Europe?
<zooko> Oh, I see that us.archive doesn't have the fixed binutils either.
<sistpoty> the US is part of the european union now :P
<jpds> zooko: Because noone has stepped up to take the load.
<zooko> sistpoty: :-)
<zooko> Hrm, so the bug is marked "fix released" but the updated binutils is still somewhere between "released" 11 hours ago and in the main apt repo?
<dtchen> zooko: that's because karmic is frozen. The fixed version is in karmic-proposed.
<zooko> Maybe I need to add karmic-updates or karmic-proposed or something?
<zooko> Thanks.
<dtchen>   * Fix PR gas/10856, wrong code with assembler files in intel syntax.
<dtchen>     Patch taken from the 2.20 branch. LP: #461303.
<zooko> So when will it go into the main apt repo for karmic?
<dtchen> it won't. karmic is frozen.
<dtchen> it will follow StableReleaseUpdates procedure and then go into karmic-updates if it passes.
<zooko> I see.  Thanks.
<dtchen> (wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-31
<sistpoty> jdong: mind taking a look at sru bug #405318 (I peer-reviewed the patches during motu-release handling, all look fine and these come from upstream)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 405318 in lmms "various patches" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/405318
<sistpoty> (sitting already in -proposed)
<jdong> heh, WTF at bug 328089
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328089 in splashy "[Jaunty] splashy 0.3.13-3ubuntu1 fresh install conflicts with lsb-base" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328089
<jdong> why don't we just directly yank obviously broken packages out of the archive?
<jdong> I mean, kudos for wanting to fix it the right way (lsb-base)... but until then it's a BOOOM for anyone unfortunate enough to try installing splashy from the repos.
<ScottK> jdong: We do when we notice them.
<jdong> ScottK: *nods* it's just unfortunate we had so many people looking at the bug and nobody waved the big red flag...
<jdong> even some people with the power to pull the plug
<ScottK> There's always the SRU to an empty package strategy
<jdong> well I'd rather we SRU out the lsb-base-logging.sh file for now or something else that compromises splashy without borking the package manager
<jdong> neither synaptic nor the Update Manager handles the case of a half-installed package correctly....
<jdong> i.e. by backing out the chain of reverse-deps that caused it to be installed
<lifeless> uhm
<lifeless> we don't support downgrading
<lifeless> thats the most proximate cause
<ScottK> Right, but we should support install failing gracefully.
<jdong> lifeless: well if I double click splashy in synaptic and mark it for install and hit apply...
<jdong> it'll tell me that the package is broken and to look at the broken filter.
<jdong> which is... not an intuitive message as to how to make my package manager work again.
<jdong> and at that point, update-manager gives equally confusing errors
<jdong> and to the end user there's not a readily obvious way to recover
<ScottK> Kpackagekit recommends use of a full featured packagemanager like synaptic or aptitude in these situations.
<jdong> *nods*
<ScottK> Not only is kpackagekit unsuitable as standard package manager for Kubuntu.  It's not clear to me that it actually aspires to be suitable.
<jdong> lol that is a hilarious admission of defeat from kpackagekit
<lifeless> jdong: file a bug about synaptic bailing in that regard
<hyperair> bdmurray: re bug #463974, is there a reason you switched the visibility back to private?
<ubottu> Bug 463974 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/463974 is private
<^arky^> Hi, Anyone seen these ALSA underrun and wake errors http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/304936/
<hyperair> anyone from motu-sru around? i'd like to get the fix for bug #248392 into karmic if possible
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248392 in ia32-libs "32bit libgl search for dri at wrong place on 64bit system" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248392
<ys___> hi, i need some help with ppas... how can i make a package also compiles on jaunty? it only compiles on karmic and i have to make another release changing the target in the changelog
<ys___> thanks :)
<lifeless> ys___: thats right
<ys___> lifeless, can't i make the same version also compiles on jaunty? i saw this on another ppas, by example https://launchpad.net/~nvidia-vdpau/+archive/ppa/+packages
<lifeless> ys___: you can copy from older to newer
<ys___> copy from older to newer? i don't understand that
<cemc> keyserver.ubuntu.com not working?
<cemc> lol, never mind...
<sebner> huh bddebian
<bddebian> Hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sebner
<geser> Hi sebner and bddebian
<sebner> aloha geser :)
<bddebian> Hi geser
<monteiro> anyone knows how can i enable GST_DEBUG? I've enabled debug on configure.. but GST_DEBUG never appears.
<Shockrates> hello developers. sagemath 4.2 is available in the site, and we still have 3.1 in our repos.
<Shockrates> do something
<Shockrates> its time to
<azeem> Shockrates: it'll be updated in lucid shortly if Debian has the new version
<Shockrates> can i get it before lucid gets out?
<Shockrates> from backdoors
<azeem> which backdoors?
<kklimonda> Shockrates, backports? no
<kklimonda> backports are done only for packages that are already in the newer ubuntu release
<Shockrates> port in greek means door
<Shockrates> lol
<Shockrates> :D
<Shockrates> porta
<kklimonda> Shockrates, that's why we are trying to abstain from making language specific jokes here - no one would get them anyway ;)
<Shockrates> anyway can someone tell me where the sagemath packages saves the software at?
<azeem> Shockrates: "the software"?
<kklimonda> what do you mean?
<Shockrates> for example if i get the 3.1 package from the repos, where will the binary be saved at
<azeem> Shockrates: maybe read the manual
<azeem> Shockrates: that's a general Ubuntu question more appropriate in #ubuntu
<Shockrates> ok
<azeem> i.e. which files are in a package, and what is their path
<hedkandi> hi folks, I have installed the new ubuntu so thanks for producing it. I prefer it to windows!
<zooko> Hey that's the guy who was complaining about Ubuntu devs not working hard enough the other day, and pissed people off.
<zooko> That was nice of him to come back and say "Thank you".
<iulian> Heh.
<MattJ> A package new in Debian since Karmic will be pulled into universe by default in Lucid?
<hyperair> yes
<MattJ> Great, thanks :)
<hyperair> as long as before freeze
<MattJ> It happens automatically though? or do I need to poke people?
<sebner> MattJ: automatically
<MattJ> Perfect :)
<hyperair> poking required only during freeze
<randomaction> but it has to be in testing
<sebner> randomaction: unstable ..-
<randomaction> sebner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
<sebner> WTH?
<sebner> randomaction: at least not with Hardy. We synced there everything with unstable as usual
<randomaction> yep, this was added to the page in Sep 2009
<sebner> grr
<sebner> stupid
<randomaction> I guess manual syncs from unstable will be possible
<randomaction> but don't know how welcome that'll be
<sebner> randomaction: sure they'll be and I'll do many of them welcoming by me a lot ;)
<hyperair> heh
<sebner> hyperair: btw, what's the roadmap for banshee now?
<hyperair> sebner: what roadmap?
<sebner> hyperair: ~2.0~
<hyperair> 2.0?
<hyperair> i don't think i've heard of anything of that sort
<hyperair> probably will be a long way down the road
<sebner> hyperair: I mean 1.6 of course, sry
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> probably will be ready by lucid..
<hyperair> or we'll have to rush things again =.=
<hyperair> how stressful.
<sebner> ack
<hyperair> mmhmm
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-01
<KurtKraut> I've created a shell script (http://code.google.com/p/pomamonitor/) and I want to distribute it in a .deb file. How can I learn how to create a package for Ubuntu?
<tsimpson> !packaging | KurtKraut
<ubottu> KurtKraut: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<KurtKraut> tsimpson, thanks.
<KurtKraut> How do I specify the control file (containing dependencies, description etc.) in the dpkg --build command?
<lfaraone> directhex: does the version of monodevelop in your PPA contain the python language bindings?
<directhex> lfaraone, no. we haven't gotten around to it yet (it's a new package)
<lfaraone> directhex: ah, okay. I'm not too experience with packaging of mono applications, would I be able to help?
<directhex> lfaraone, just hasn't been done yet. would probably be a simple copypasta from monodevelop-vala's debian/ dir into the new dir, should build with little massaging
<directhex> (at a guess)
<lfaraone> directhex: mk.
<eboysr> Is there a channel I can ask questions on how to make an Ubuntu package? I added some code to the gnome-control-center package, but I need to know how to compile it to test to see if my code works well.
<randomaction> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
<JanC> eboysr: asking here is okay, not sure how many paople are around on Saturday night (US) or Sunday morning (Europe) though  ;)
<eboysr> lol yeah.. Here I bet most people are just pigging out on Halloween candy or something
<eboysr> Weird how postfix gets installed along with devscripts
<eboysr> Anyway I got it thanks randomaction and JanC
<lars_> anybody here, who can assist me in my first steps of bugfixing ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aiccu/+bug/223825 )
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 223825 in aiccu "aiccu init.d script will race dhclient (upstart issue?)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<lars_> (cute bot :) )
<lars_> I have a fix for that, but I'm not really sure how to get it into a patch ( where to put upstart-files in debian/ ? )
<eboyjr> lars_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix I am programming a fix for something myself right now
<eboyjr> lars_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems Take a look at Example 1. too
<lars_> oh, thanks eboyjr :) *reading*
<eboyjr> And yeah that is a cool bot. bug 23425
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 23425 in ubuntu "[Breezy RC] Touchpad not responsive (dup-of: 22584)" [Critical,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/23425
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 22584 in linux-source-2.6.15 "[ Breezy Colony 5] Touchpad problem (doesn't work)" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22584
<eboyjr> i just put random numbers heh
<lars_> :)
<dupondje> I'm trying to find out how to debug nautilus :p
<lars_> dupondje: sounds like biiiig fun :)
<dupondje> want to fix some SynCE bugs :)
<lars_> All I want is to get rid of /etc/init.d/aiccu in favour of a new /etc/init/aiccu.conf by me
<lars_> And I cannot find any part in debian/* except a file debian/aiccu.init.d (which is never used in rules or control)
<maxb> lars_: I'd guess you want to see 'man dh_installinit'
<lars_> AH :)
<lars_> thanks maxb :)
<lars_> hmm referred in man is debian/package.init but in source is debian/package.init.d ... :) but it works, so i will delete package.init.d and put my file as package.upstart? right?
<larsduesing> Hi :)
<larsduesing> I uploaded a patch to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aiccu/+bug/223825
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 223825 in aiccu "aiccu init.d script will race dhclient (upstart issue?)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<larsduesing> being that my first patch, do I have to do anything else to get the patch sponsored by motu-team?
<geser> larsduesing: is this also for a SRU for karmic or only for lucid? (didn't read all the bug comments?
<larsduesing> geser: SRU?
<larsduesing> *sorry* I'm new to all
<geser> larsduesing: SRU = Stable Release Update, i.e. karmic-updates in the end
<larsduesing> I think it could be SRU...
<larsduesing> but I'm not really sure, as I don't know what impacts could be.
<larsduesing> but people are waiting sind 2008-04-28 now for this update
<larsduesing> since
<larsduesing> -sind
<larsduesing> :)
<geser> larsduesing: your debdiff needs small corrections, the version needs to be bumped (you can't have twice 20070115-9) and the Maintainer field needs an update too
<larsduesing> oh
<geser> the Maintainer field can be easily updated with update-maintainer from ubuntu-dev-tools
<larsduesing> Should I enter me as Maintainer?
<larsduesing> (as in ubuntu only motu is as maintainer)
<geser> and the version should be for an SRU: 20070115-9ubuntu0.1 targeting karmic-proposed (and not unstable)
<larsduesing> ok
<geser> the Maintainer would be Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com> (if I remember the exact value correctly) but the update-maintainer script will do it for you
<larsduesing> Resetting as: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
<geser> yep
<larsduesing> fine
<geser> and the upload later to lucid should be versioned 20070115-9ubuntu1 targeting lucid
<larsduesing> aiccu (20070115-9ubuntu0.1) karmic; urgency=low
<larsduesing> in changelog?
<geser> s/karmic/karmic-proposed/
<geser> but yes
<larsduesing> aiccu (20070115-9ubuntu0.1) karmic-proposed; urgency=low
<larsduesing> thank you :)
<geser> and you need to get an ACK from motu-sru (just subscribe them to the bug and wait for an ACK)
<geser> and  subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to get your fix uploaded to lucid (once it's open)
<geser> and the syntax for automatic bug close through debian/changelog is "LP: #xxx" (Closes: #xxx is used in Debian)
<larsduesing> ok, corrected... updloading new patch :)
<larsduesing> done. :)
<larsduesing> thanks geser
<larsduesing> subscribed both :)
<Hrun> hi, i want to try some ubuntu software development, how do i get the source in such a way that i can make a diff which could be accepted?
<Hrun> (and what is a nice small fail-proof package to start?)
<maxb> I would advise working on packages which personally interest you is the best place to start
<maxb> Hrun: Also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing is a good place to start reading stuff
<nachiket> I need help with permissions issues when compiling a source package on Launchpad
<Hrun> ok. i'll have a look.
<maxb> nachiket: I may be on both channels, but others won't be, so re-state relevant facts here.
<nachiket> Yes, certainly... I have a source package that builds fine locally on my machine.. I uploaded the package to Launchpad and the build system fails when trying to run "make install". The install step tries to copy over certain binaries into /usr/local which it is unable to do because of permissions
<maxb> Right.... the fact that your package tries to write to /usr/*anything* directly is a bug. The build should fail for you locally too. (Unless you're running it as root, which is *very much not recommended*)
<nachiket> I run it with sudo
<maxb> don't
<nachiket> Doesn't a deb install require sudo anyway?
<joaopinto> you are not expected to install anything out of the build directory :)
<joaopinto> nachiket, install yes, building no
<nachiket> i dont understand...
<nachiket> i am trying to write the compiled binaries into /usr/local/bin
<nachiket> is that a bad pattern?
<joaopinto> nachiket, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<nachiket> Thanks.. I guess I did read that guide and maybe I missed some step?
<jdong> the guide should give you the understanding that files should be staged into $(DESTDIR)
<joaopinto> as part of the building process you install files ate debian/tmp or debian/package-name, not on their expected target location
<jdong> i.e. $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin
<nachiket> I see.... But, there's no DESTDIR on that page..
<jdong> ah they refer to it as $(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/
<nachiket> oh
<nachiket> I see...
<nachiket> ok thanks.. I think I understand..
<nachiket> I have an unrelated question...
<nachiket> How do I distribute a Java package as a Debian/Ubuntu deb file?
<nachiket> Is there a similar packaging guide?
<joaopinto> nachiket, you mean a java application ?
<nachiket> From Java source
<nachiket> yes
<nachiket> I did find this -> http://pkg-java.alioth.debian.org/building.html
<joaopinto> directhex, ping
<joaopinto> directhex, is monodevelop expected to work out of the box :P ?
<AnAnt> Hello, is it true that Ubuntu will by syncing from testing instead of unstable during Lucid cycle ?
<joaopinto> AnAnt, I don't know for sure, but that is the docummented policy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
<AnAnt> oh, because its LTS !
<joaopinto> it is :)
<nachiket> any help on a packaging flow for java?
<joaopinto> nachiket, just check the source for an existing java package
<sebner> joaopinto: it should, why?
<joaopinto> sebner, because it didn't, with a default VB project
<joaopinto> it missing dependencies
<joaopinto> it's
<sebner> urgh
<sebner> VB
<sebner> ..
<sebner> ^^
<sebner> joaopinto: ok you better talk with directhex then
<joaopinto> doesn't monodevelop provide an integrated gui editor ?
<sebner> joaopinto: not for VB but GTK# (C#)
<joaopinto> erm, the help button also crashes, I am already disapointed
<joaopinto> ok, I thought it the gui editing would be language independent :P
<sebner> nah
<joaopinto> well, the Help crashes on the main window, this one is not VB specific :)
<joaopinto> missing monodoc
<joaopinto> argh, now the code editor complains that the file was changed outside, after using the design editor
<iWolf> I would like to join the MOTU team
<geser> iWolf: have you already read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing?
<iWolf> Ill think ill brush up on my linux skills before joining
<iWolf> Used to linux, used Ubuntu for a while, Debian on another PC, And now going back to ubuntu
<micahg> I wanted to run a packaging bug comment by a MOTU, is one available
<micahg> nevermind, I'll just link to the upstream bug
<azeem> does ubottu have a seen function?
<Amaranth> azeem: No, that's what SeenServ is for
<jpds> Amaranth: SeenServ is dead.
<carresmd> Evening. Is it possible to build multiple debian packages, i.e. package, package-common, package-doc, using cdbs and distutils for python applications?
<RAOF> carresmd: Yes, absolutely.
<RAOF> carresmd: Just to check, you mean: "build multiple binary packages (foo, foo-common, foo-doc, foo-bar) from a single source package foo"?
<carresmd> RAOF, correct. BUT what if a source package uses distutils (setup.py)?
<RAOF> carresmd: Why would that make a difference?
<RAOF> _No_ (upstream) build system does anything special for multiple binary packages.
<RAOF> At least, none that I know of.
<RAOF> They're all done at the packaging level, (almost always) _after_ the buildsystem has done whatever it'll do.
<carresmd> RAOF, then how would I specify which files belong to package(-whatever)? I have to say, this is my first day trying to package something.. ^^
<RAOF> I'd suggest looking at a multi-binary package as an example.  Let's see if I can find a simple one...
<lifeless> RAOF: subunit
<RAOF> lifeless: Thanks.
<lifeless> RAOF: fairly small, but builds a lib, -dev, python module, apps package etc
<RAOF> For some reason I can't help spelling that "subunity"
<lifeless> and includes python
<carresmd> I'll take a look :-)
<RAOF> The most active ingredient is debian/*.install, which tells dh_install what files to move to which package (basically).
<lifeless> don't forget debian/control :)
<RAOF> Well, that too.
<carresmd> so basically the *.install files specify what files belong to a specific package?
<RAOF> But that declares what packages there are, wheras the install files more closely map to the actual question (how would I specify which files belong where).
<RAOF> carresmd: Indeed.
<carresmd> thus, cdbs (*.install files) comes in action between building and packaging right?
<RAOF> Well... we don't use "packaging" in that sense.
<RAOF> (We use it to describe the whole process of specifying how to turn a source tarball into one-or-more binary packages)
<RAOF> But you're conceptually pretty much correct.
<carresmd> is compiling > cdbs > building better?
<RAOF> Not really, because CDBS orchestrates the compiling too. :)
<carresmd> hmm
<carresmd> well it doesn't matter right now ^^
<RAOF> What's happening underneath is: CDBS implements the standard debian/rules interface (which you'll find in Debian policy, and it's worth a read).
<RAOF> But for now, you've got an idea of what you need to do.
<carresmd> Looking at the example package, subunit.install 'fetches' files in 'usr/bin' where 'usr/bin' is in the build directory right?
<RAOF> For this, you'll want to read "man dh_install".
<carresmd> Ah, that's what I needed :-)
<RAOF> dh_install is the component that reads the *.install files and acts on them.  But, yes.  subunit.install specifies that the "usr/bin" heirachy should be copied into the the directory that the "subunit" package is being built in.
<RAOF> You might also want to check out some of the other dh_* man pages.  Those are the utilities that CDBS calls to get the job done, and they act on various files in debian/
<carresmd> how would I only compile the package so I can take a look in it's build/ directory?
<carresmd> just make build?
<RAOF> debian/rules build
<RAOF> Would work (check out the targets that debian/rules has to have - Debian policy!).  Also, dpkg-buildpackage or debuild or your choice of package-building frontend will generally leave everything in place.
<RAOF> Hm.  With the exception of everything moved by dh_install.
<carresmd> RAOF, how would I set a prefix for debian/rules build? As subunit doesn't create a 'build/' dir or something alike
<RAOF> carresmd: I'm not sure what you mean.  What are you doing, and what do you want to do?
<carresmd> I'd like to see the files before that are split up with the debian/*.install files.
<carresmd> So I get an idea how stuff actually works
<carresmd> (with the subunit package)
<RAOF> So, what _I_ would do is: unpack the subunit source (apt-get source subunit will do this for you), change to the subunit-0.0.2 directory, and run "debian/rules build".
<carresmd> yes, done that. But they files are all scattered around in the tree.
<RAOF> They'll all be in debian/tmp
<carresmd> ?
<RAOF> Oh, whoops.
<RAOF> Sorry.
<RAOF> debian/rules install will do a little more that you're after
<carresmd> but it does keep debian/tmp intact as it seems :-)
<RAOF> So, "debian/rules clean" followed by "debian/rules build" followed by "dh_auto_install" should get you into a state where everything's in debian/tmp, but before dh_install has copied or moved things around.
<carresmd> ok
<carresmd> I'll try
<carresmd> that's what I was looking for.. Thanks
<carresmd> what's ran after 'dh_auto_install'?
<carresmd> I assume 'dh_auto_install' is part of 'dh_install' right?
<carresmd> nevermind
<carresmd> 'dh_install' is the script ran after 'dh_auto_install' :-)
<DktrKranz> carresmd: this is the full sequence: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/307050/plain/
<lifeless> man debhelper
<DktrKranz> err... too verbose, this is better: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/307054/plain/
<carresmd> thanks, that made it clear :-)
<DktrKranz> you're welcome ;)
<ari-tczew> when autosync will wake up to work?
<DktrKranz> not before toolchain has landed
<ari-tczew> so after 5th
<ari-tczew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
<carresmd> RAOF, I have successfully build my very first multiple binary package (or whatever they are called).
<ari-tczew> congratulations
<carresmd> RAOF, Thank you for guiding me the right way! :-)
<RAOF> No problem.
<carresmd> I assumed it would be complicated because I was using distutils...
<carresmd> âAssumption is the mother of the screw-upâ -Angelo Donghia ^^
<carresmd> anyway, goodnight!
<mruiz> hi all
<ari-tczew> hmmm is comming necessity to forward some packages into debian before DebianImportFreeze :P
<ari-tczew> http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/universe.html#outdatedinA
<ajmitch> good to see *some* discussion about sync-from-testing for lucid
<ajmitch> because it seems like it's surprising to quite a few people
<geser> ari-tczew: this page need to be fixed to compare against testing instead of unstable (lucid will sync with testing and not unstable)
<ari-tczew> ; O
<ari-tczew> why testing in this development cycle?
<ajmitch> because lucid is an LTS release
<Pici> We won't be downgrading package versions though... will we?
<ajmitch> no, we won't
<ajmitch> because we can't
<Pici> Just making sure.
 * jdong loves that answer :)
<geser> ajmitch: did we sync from testing for dapper and hardy too, or is this completely new?
<ajmitch> geser: completely new
<ari-tczew> ueee, so this release won't get many new upstream versions?
<ajmitch> and from the responses from some canonical employees, not particularly well communicated
<ajmitch> I wonder how feasible having universe autosync from debian, where possible
<ajmitch> ie where all build-dependencies are satisfied
<geser> ajmitch: please don't make it too complicated
<wgrant> That has been suggested before.
<wgrant> geser: I'll add testing versions of the mdt pages now.
<geser> I'm currently thinking what's the best way to change the requestsync default. changing requestsync in lucid is easy, but I'm not sure if a backport or a sru is better for karmic and jaunty
<ajmitch> geser: "too complicated" is bad, but we're going to have a lot of people wanting the newest stuff in universe again
<ajmitch> I don't particularly like the idea of only being able to sync from testing
<geser> I don't have an opinion on that right now, need to think more about it
<lifeless> There doesn't seem to be consensus on ubuntu-devel about it yet
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-01
<hggdh> ari-tczew: done, new debdiffs uploaded. I hope this time I got it right :-)
<ari-tczew> hggdh: I'll start in a couple of minutes.
<micahg> ari-tczew: since when can you upload security stuff?
<ari-tczew> micahg: I can't upload this one. I can ACK as MOTU SWAT.
<micahg> ari-tczew: ok
<ari-tczew> hggdh: did you test is version 0.5.4 affected by this bug?
<ari-tczew> hggdh: what do you think about use bazaar to send patches?
<micahg> ari-tczew: one step at a time ;)
<ari-tczew> micahg: hmmm?
<micahg> ari-tczew: bzr's a lot for new contributors
<ari-tczew> micahg: 4 commands.
<ari-tczew> bzr push lp:foo/bar
<ari-tczew> patch -p1 < ../*debdiff
<ari-tczew> bzr commit --fixes lp:foo
<ari-tczew> bzr push (at start branch, mistake)
<micahg> ari-tczew: debdiff is a lot simpler
<ari-tczew> micahg: yes but I have one last suggestion :P and if he will work again, I suggest to send patches via bzr
<micahg> ari-tczew: it's actually not possible in this case
<micahg> no -security branches
<ari-tczew> micahg: it doesn't matter.
<micahg> ari-tczew: it does
<ari-tczew> micahg: no. sponsor will grab debdiff from requested bzr branch merge.
<micahg> ari-tczew: you can't do a merge if the branch doesn't exist, it's a bug
<micahg> and UDD AFAIK isn't used for security sponsoring
<ari-tczew> micahg: yes, you're right, but contributor can request bzr merge on normal branch. LP will generate diff (preview) correct.
<micahg> ari-tczew: it's a waste of time
<ari-tczew> micahg: waste of time was today's discussion
<micahg> ari-tczew: no, it's faster to just make a debdiff vs using bzr
<micahg> apt-get source foo is much faster than bzr branch lp:ubuntu/foo
<ari-tczew> micahg: I prefer to use pull-lp-source
<micahg> ari-tczew: same difference, much faster than bzr branch
<hggdh> ari-tczew: I did not test 0.5.4 (natty)
<hggdh> ari-tczew: I just found what is possibly the fix in GIT -- http://repo.or.cz/w/ncmpcpp.git/commit/d1b82557d266795621244c62644d4d0604cf5453
<ari-tczew> hggdh: couldn't you grab this patch in the whole?
<ari-tczew> hggdh: if this patch also fixes issue, we should upload it from git upstream.
<hggdh> ari-tczew: I will look at the dependencies
<ari-tczew> hggdh: about your debdiffs: I would like to use Author tag instead From because you created this patch.
<hggdh> ari-tczew: no prob, easy edit, will upload corrected in a few
<ari-tczew> hggdh: My propose: please hang on while you will test this git's patch.
<hggdh> roj
<ari-tczew> hggdh: roj?
<hggdh> ari-tczew: shorthand for 'roger', meaning 'I understand'
<ari-tczew> hggdh: ok, so I'm unsubscribing ubuntu-sponsors till your feedback about git's patch.
<ari-tczew> Thank you for your contribution.
<hggdh> ari-tczew: OK, sounds file
<hggdh> sound fine
<micahg> psusi: powernowd is in Debian and Ubuntu at the moment.  If it's obsolete, why is it not being removed?
<psusi> micahg, I have filed a bug in debian asking for it to be removed
<micahg> psusi: ah, ok
<psusi> the last upstream release was almost 3 years ago and they said it would be the final one because it is obsolete
<micahg> psusi: shouldn't that be an rc bug? debian 602052
<ubottu> Debian bug 602052 in powernowd "Drop obsolete package" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/602052
<psusi> dunno what that means... I'm not very familliar with debian bts
 * micahg tried, we'll see if it works
<dholbach> good morning!
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> how was uds?
<dholbach> excellent, but hectic as usual :)
<dholbach> I have yet to see how many work items I ended up with
 * nigelb waves to ajmitch 
<nigelb> ajmitch: were you able to get back to classroom team re:session? :)
<ajmitch> nigelb: yeah I did eventually reply
<nigelb> ajmitch: as you did now :p
<nigelb> 'eventually' :D
 * ajmitch was doing other stuff :P
 * nigelb was just kidding :)
 * ajmitch is always picked on :)
 * nigelb hugs ajmitch 
<Laney> and the blueprint spam begins!
<nigelb> Laney: haha
<directhex> laney: that's why i don't sign up to blueprints
<ari-tczew> crimsun: around?
<ikonia> does anyone know why sabily-grub-artwork are in the ubuntu Universe ?
<dholbach> ikonia, why are you wondering?
<ari-tczew> dholbach: oh, good to see you here. I have a proposition to sponsors overview
<dholbach> ari-tczew, can you file a bug report?
<dholbach> ari-tczew, I'm not the only one working on it
<ari-tczew> dholbach: yes, I can
<dholbach> super, thanks
<ari-tczew> dholbach: bug 669418
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 669418 in ubuntu-sponsoring "Show last commit in bzr on page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/669418
<dholbach> ari-tczew, thanks
<ikonia> dholbach: sorry was AFK for a moment
<ikonia> dholbach: just because it's not an ubuntu distro package, it's a package for a derivative, just wondered why it was in the ubuntu repos ?
<dholbach> ikonia, it's what a lot of derivatives do
<ikonia> I'm sure, I just picked that one as an example
<dholbach> I think it makes a lot of sense for derivatives to not host their own infrastructure, but get their stuff into Ubuntu directly
<dholbach> it's the easiest way of doing it
<dholbach> and if Ubuntu users, want to try it out they mostly just install their derivative-metapackage
<ikonia> the image based packages such as the splash images don't seem a big deal what about packages that may create/cause conflict ?
<ikonia> how is that managed
<dholbach> ikonia, they set proper Conflicts/Replaces fields in the package metadata
<ikonia> so Ubuntu as a project is happy hosting derivative packages in Universe as a position
<ikonia> or supports it I should say
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam might have some more information on the topic
<ikonia> cool, thank you
<ikonia> nice looking link too, thank you
<dholbach> anytime
<ikonia> dholbach: an excellent link infact, thank you
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: could you sync package from bug 669412 ? necessary for FTBFS fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 669412 in Ubuntu "Sync libpackage-deprecationmanager-perl 0.08-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/669412
<Rhonda> Why does the changelog contain twice "email address hidden" and once the real email address?
<Rhonda> Is the code to hide the email address not able to work with domains like 43-1.org? :)
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: you know that I'll generally do them within about a working day without you having to ask, right? :)
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: perhaps :P
<cjwatson> (in general, don't ask unless it's urgent, it slows other things down.)
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I've done my second sync pass for the day now though, so that bug is fixed
<micahg> SpamapS: are you going to work on teh SRU for bug 557024?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557024 in mongodb (Ubuntu) "mongo / mongod as packaged can't load libmozjs.so" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557024
<ari-tczew> thanks cjwatson
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: MoM is again paused?
<cjwatson> looking
<cjwatson> ValueError: process failed 25: dpkg-source -x ace-of-penguins_1.3-1ubuntu1.dsc /srv/patches.ubuntu.com/unpacked/a/ace-of-penguins/1.3-1ubuntu1
<cjwatson> hmm
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: ups... looking on who did upload this one :D
<cjwatson> dpkg-source: info: applying 11-include-imagelib.patch
<cjwatson> 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file games/spider.c.rej
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: that would be you ;-)
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: oh my gosh :p package is synced already, MoM shouldn't handle this one
<cjwatson> it's trying to generate a diff from that version to the next version
<cjwatson> let me see what can sanely be done about that
<cjwatson> (this isn't for merges.ubuntu.com, but for patches.ubuntu.com, which is populated by the same set of cron jobs)
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: could script skip this one?
<cjwatson> it could, but there would be no way to distinguish between out of disk space (=> need to wait until we have some) and broken package (=> skip)
<cjwatson> so I think I would prefer to just kill this one with fire instead
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: huh, I hope that Canonical will buy some HDDs :)
<cjwatson> sure, but it's vital that merge-o-matic doesn't just carry on regardless
<cjwatson> killed; as far as MoM is concerned, that version now never existed
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: another question. FTBFS page could check whether package is DEPWAIT. is possible to create a function, which LP/builders will detect why is FTBFS? e.g. Reason: missed linking libs => detect by "could not read symbols: Invalid operation"
<cjwatson> no idea, I'm afraid - the FTBFS page has nothing to do with me
<cjwatson> and I don't generally work on LP
<micahg> ari-tczew: that sounds prone to error
<cjwatson> in general?  it sounds possible to create some heuristics, although tedious.  I suspect that it would be better to try that kind of feature outside Launchpad
<cjwatson> since it would be easier to evolve the code that way
<ari-tczew> This feature can bring easier way to sort kind of FTBFS.
<geser> ari-tczew: for that the script would need to fetch *every* build log from LP and inspect it (and the script takes already long enough to run just to fetch the build status)
<micahg> it would be nice if DEPWAIT at it's supposed to work, just worked( I noticed at the end of maverick it worked spradically, haven't checked lately)
<geser> micahg: known problem, I'm waiting on lamont to review a fix for it (and deploy it)
<micahg> geser: ok, great
<ari-tczew> geser: or builder will check kind of FTBFS and add to list
<ari-tczew> script will fetch done list
<geser> when LP supports that, I can add it to the page
<ari-tczew> geser: are you an author of FTBFS script?
<geser> yes
<SpamapS> micahg: re bug 557024, yes I'll do the SRU, will need somebody to accept it for Lucid.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557024 in mongodb (Ubuntu) "mongo / mongod as packaged can't load libmozjs.so" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557024
<micahg> SpamapS: I can find someone to do that
<Laney> ME!
<micahg> hi Laney :)
<Laney> hiya
<micahg> SpamapS: I can review teh SRU, I just can't upload yet
 * ScottK slaps micahg around a bit as motivation to fix that.
<micahg> ScottK: it's just a matter of time (1 week actually :D)
<ScottK> micahg: I'm not well known for my patience.
<micahg> heh, it wasn't pressing enough to chase after 4 DMB members at UDS, so I'm waiting
<SpamapS> ScottK: thats why we try to keep you inebriated whenever we see you...
<ScottK> SpamapS: Like I need motivation for that.
 * ScottK notes that the group present when the bar closes each night at UDS skews significantly older than the average age of those attending UDS as a whole.  Apparently the youngsters have early bed times.
<Laney> Or they go offsite
<bilalakhtar> andreserl: Can I take bug #547267 from you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 547267 in nginx (Ubuntu) "nginx should not install into /var/www/nginx-default (Debian policy)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/547267
<andreserl> bilalakhtar, sure go ahead :)
<bilalakhtar> andreserl: thanks
<stefanlsd> Is something like DEB_PYTHON_INSTALL_ARGS_ALL = --no-compile -O0 --install-layout=deb
<stefanlsd> still required, or is it fixed in cdbs?
<geser> is this an Ubuntu delta?
<stefanlsd> geser: yeah
<geser> just check if the package builds without it or not
<stefanlsd> geser: yeah, package builds
<stefanlsd> geser: just not sure its putting it in the right place (tm)
<geser> did you compare the package contents between the old and the new package
<ebroder> stefanlsd: try running debdiff on the .deb files
<stefanlsd> let me check. thx
<stefanlsd> ok. thanks. no difference in debdiff of .deb files. so i think its ok
<ebroder> pitti: does pkgbinarymangler run on all packages, or just those in main? (i.t. will universe packages that are built after your changes get scour'ed and optipng'ed?)
<ebroder> *i.e
<geser> ebroder: pkgbinarymangler runs on all packages, but not every part is done for all packages (e.g. pkgstriptranslations is only done for main)
 * ebroder meant to send that to #ubuntu-devel, where pitti is actually joined.
<geser> ebroder: looking at the code for pkgbinarymangler, optipng is called as part of pkgstripfiles which doesn't care about the component
<ebroder> geser: awesome, thanks
<micahg> SpamapS: just use a debdiff for mongodb in Lucid, merge proposal won't work since there's no -proposed branch
<SpamapS> micahg: is it not acceptable to propose merging into lucid, and then just let the uploader in essence "creat" the proposed branch?
<micahg> SpamapS: the uploader cannot create the branch and the lucid branch is frozen
<SpamapS> micahg: well the upload creates it
<micahg> SpamapS: right, but the hassle of a merge proposal isn't worth it since all the changes will be lost
<SpamapS> hassle?! I think they're awesome. :)
<SpamapS> but I don't sponsor stuff.
<micahg> SpamapS: I think they're awesome too if the history is kept, otherwise, it's pointless
<SpamapS> Other than it has its own comment structure, and is updatable... ;)
<SpamapS> and the history is not "lost"
<SpamapS> that branch lives on forever as long as I don't delete it.
<micahg> SpamapS: right, but it's in limbo since it cannot be merged
<SpamapS> You can just mark it merged after the upload. Its not the status of the MP that makes the MP special really.
<micahg> SpamapS: I did that recently due to issues with UDD and source format 3 (was not happy about that)
<SpamapS> yeah, the two efforts do not play nicely together really
<sebner> hoi RainCT =)
<RainCT> hi sebner
 * iulian waves from the back of his cave.
<sebner> iulian: :)
 * geser tries to lure iulian out of his cave :)
 * sebner greets geser :)
<iulian> Hehe. :-)
<iulian> How's it goin' guys?
<RainCT> finishing some statistics homework :p
<ari-tczew> RainCT: is your comment on MoM for package zsync is up-to-date?
<RainCT> ari-tczew: dunno, probably not, last time I visited MoM was probably half a year ago
<iulian> RainCT: Yay, stats!
<iulian> Uh.
<RainCT> iulian: channel fail :P
<RainCT> iulian: ah no nevermind, I failed, thought that was in -cli :P
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: yeah, MoM comments don't get cleared up at the end of the cycle, it's a bit annoying :)
<iulian> RainCT: :-)
 * ajmitch wishes the plugin would load
<ajmitch> oh look, it's waiting on a 10-page EULA to install
 * RainCT wonders wth is wrong with OpenOffice.org that it insists in putting a space before each ":" he writes -.-
<sebner> RainCT: libreoffice ftw! :P
<RainCT> sebner: it's the same, GNU/Linux distros ship go-oo which is being merged into libreoffice :p
<sebner> RainCT: libreoffice > go-oo > openoffice ;D
<RainCT> Btw, does anyone know how long it takes to compile it? I've been thinking about fixing some bugs but I don't feel like having my poor laptop 24 hours building :p
<sebner> RainCT: dunno, I tried a git build for some hours but it failed because of a clutter bug (pulls in so many (external) sources) xD
<RainCT> sebner: Why does it want Clutter? o.O
<ari-tczew> RainCT: I usually check on Launchpad, how long took a last build. Example: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-watch/0.3.2-13ubuntu4/+build/1898377
<sebner> RainCT: don't ask me xD
<ari-tczew> Finished on 2010-07-31 (took 3 minutes, 20.1 seconds)
<RainCT> (took 1 hour, 21 minutes, 54.2 seconds)
<RainCT> on amd64, and on i386: (took 9 hours, 21 minutes, 35.8 seconds)
<RainCT> o.O
<geser> arch-dep vs arch-indep probably
<ari-tczew> what means on LP "Binary packages awaiting approval in NEW queue:" ?
<paultag> ari-tczew, I have no idea, but my guess it's similar or related to the Debian NEW queue
<paultag> if you don't have the link it's at http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
<ari-tczew> paultag: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/db/5.0.26-3ubuntu1
<paultag> do the archive masters have to approve new binary packages?
<paultag> for Ubuntu
<ebroder> Yes
<ari-tczew> dunno. let's ask cjwatson
<paultag> I mean, I'd guess so, there must be someone like the FTP master for Ubuntu
<chrisccoulson> it means exactly what it says - that the package that was uploaded contains new binary packages which need approval before they enter the archive
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: is tracker able to merge? I remember, that some packages can't be merged from Debian. Only packaging from scratch.
<geser> ari-tczew: the flow of a new source package is: source NEW -> build -> binary NEW -> published
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, no idea, i've not looked at the changes
<geser> if new binary packages get introduced the only need the second part: binary NEW -> published
<ari-tczew> geser: hmm. it was a big merge. bump from upstream 4 to 5.
<chrisccoulson> "* Add libdb5.0-{sql,stl}{,-dev} packages" is why it is in NEW
<ajmitch> yet another libdb version, yay
<geser> ari-tczew: it's nothing about big or small change; libdb5.0* wasn't seen before so the archive admins have to take a "look" and put them into the right component (usually the same as the source)
<cjwatson> ajmitch: FWIW MoM comments should get cleaned up now once the merge goes away, but I only fixed that bug last week
<cjwatson> so it's still possible for there to be old stale comments
<ajmitch> cjwatson: great, thanks for fixing that
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: could you approve these binaries? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/db/5.0.26-3ubuntu1
<ari-tczew> I need this for fix FTBFS.
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: no
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I uploaded the package - I should not also process it through NEW
<ari-tczew> hard process
<cjwatson> just sensible
<cjwatson> don't review your own work
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-02
<MTecknology> If I have a newer version of a package that's un universe for lucid; is it possible to get the newer version into backports?
<ebroder> MTecknology: is that version in maverick or natty?
<MTecknology> ebroder: nope.. I'm hoping to get it into natty soon though
<ebroder> MTecknology: backports only happen from ubuntu releases, so once the version is in natty, then you can file a backport bug
<MTecknology> ebroder: thanks :)
<MTecknology> ebroder: so could it be backported to both maverick and lucid?
<ebroder> sure
<ebroder> actually, it would have to be
<MTecknology> yay
<ebroder> because there are rules about the upgrade path with backports enabled
<ebroder> (if you have a backported version of a package installed, that package should get upgraded when you do a release upgrade of your system, either from a backport in the newer release, or the package the backport was backported from. *phew*)
<MTecknology> ebroder: the current version of the package has some bugs in it - they're as trivial as.. there should be a space in this comment line - if I made a debdiff for that - would that fix make it into lucid; or would it be just too trivial at this point?
<ebroder> do the bugs actually affect functionality? "space in this comment line" sounds aesthetic
<MTecknology> the comment is part of an example config - but no- it's pretty aesthetic
<ebroder> we have a process for fixing packages in stable releases
<ebroder> !sru | MTecknology
<ubottu> MTecknology: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<MTecknology> ebroder: I was just looking at bug 655407
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 655407 in nginx (Ubuntu) "Typo in /etc/nginx/sites-available" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655407
<ebroder> i don't know nginx config - does that cause an error, or does it cause the line to be treated as a comment?
<ebroder> if it's an error, then it could maybe be fixed with an sru
<MTecknology> #includefastcgi_params;  <-- if you tried to uncomment that line and use it - you would get an error that wouldn't let nginx start
<ebroder> ah, i see. that's a little harder to call
<MTecknology> the way it exists now would not cause an error at all
<ebroder> i don't decide whether bugs qualify for srus or not, but my inclination would be to leave it, and assume that an admin intelligent enough to uncomment that line would be intelligent enough to add the missing space
<MTecknology> alrighty
<MTecknology> If I get this package into natty and it goes through backports the issue will go away anyway
<ebroder> err, well, to step back, are you trying to get a backport just to fix that bug, or because there are actually new features?
<MTecknology> crap ton for new features
<ebroder> ok, good. then backports is the right answer
<MTecknology> actually- it's from nginx-0.7.67 to nginx-0.8.53
<MTecknology> ebroder: thanks :)
<ebroder> np
<MTecknology> ebroder: so now I just need to figure out bug 547267 for my package; fix it for the other package; get that one fixed via SRU if it's required (slipping in the space); and woohoo
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 547267 in nginx (Ubuntu) "nginx should not install into /var/www/nginx-default (Debian policy)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/547267
<MTecknology> ebroder: heh... looks like that work has already been dealt with :)
<MTecknology> ebroder: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~nginx/nginx/debian/revision/91 && https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/616685
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 616685 in nginx (Ubuntu) "Please merge nginx 0.7.67-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<micahg> lfaraone: I gave you the task of updating sugar-firefox-activity to Firefox 4 once it's in Natty, is that ok?
<MTecknology> how do I add a lintain overrid?
<MTecknology> override*
<Rhonda> MTecknology: See man dh_lintian - you put them into debian/$packagename.lintian-overrides
<MTecknology> Rhonda: thanks :)
<MTecknology> Rhonda: I guess lintian isn't complaining about what I thought it would - instead it's complaining about something I'm confused about :P
<Rhonda> But only add overrides if you really are sure lintian is wrong there.
<Rhonda> And if it's wrong it might be proper to teach lintian to guess right ;)
<MTecknology> Rhonda: It's complaining about XSBC-Original-Maintainer: being used
<ebroder> MTecknology: that just means you have an old lintian
<MTecknology> oh
<Rhonda> MTecknology: Are you using the Debian lintian? It might be that this got patched in only in Ubuntu.
<ebroder> although i think it's just Original-Maintainer these days (no XSBC- needed)
<MTecknology> I'm using lucid
<Rhonda> lucid shouldn't be that old for that â¦
 * ebroder goes rumaging for his lucid vm...
<Rhonda> So adding an override for that should be the wrong approach, me thinks.
<MTecknology> syntax hilighting seems to like XSBC-Original-Maintainer but not Original-Maintainer
<MTecknology> yay for older things
<Rhonda> What does the long description of the message say?
<MTecknology> I'll move all my stuff to az maverick vm..
<Rhonda> Then maybe the syntax hilighting is outdated, not lintian. ;)
<MTecknology> W: nginx source: unknown-field-in-dsc original-maintainer
<MTecknology> I wasn't saying that was an error or anything :)
<Rhonda> Did you check with the documentation/wiki?
<MTecknology> ?
<ebroder> ah - "  + [RA] Ignore Original-Maintainer if the version contains ubuntu."
<Rhonda> Right, but adding overrides should be done only after full check :)
<ebroder> MTecknology: what's your version number for post-merge?
<MTecknology> wow- I've been battling for a while and yet I still feel so green
<MTecknology> ebroder: no idea..
<Rhonda> MTecknology: green is good, I like my packages green. ;)
<Rhonda> But yes, XSBC-Original-Maintainer is documented in the wiki everywhere â¦
<MTecknology> so both would be right?
<ebroder> Original-Maintainer is preferred now
<MTecknology> ok
<Rhonda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/FAQ speaks of XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<Rhonda> ebroder: Then the documentation should get updated. :)
<Rhonda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/PackagingFromScratchHelloControl the same.
<Rhonda> Only matches for XSBC-O-M, no match for O-M on its own without XSBC prefix: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Home?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=original-maintainer&fullsearch=Text
<MTecknology> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete <-- I was trying to find something here to teach me about using lintian
<MTecknology> I need to stop using a lucid chroot for this, huh?
<Rhonda> MTecknology: Maybe it should be renamed to /InComplete then. :P
<ebroder> you used XSBC-Original-Maintainer because dpkg didn't know about Original-Maintainer yet, but i thougth it had learned
<ebroder> but looking at update-maintainer, it still uses XSBC-O-M, too. so maybe i'm just really confused
<Rhonda> More seriously, guess it can't go into deeper details on all areas, there is too much to cover.
<MTecknology> every time I start with packaging stuff I feel like I'm working in whitespace code :P
<MTecknology> ok- I upped myself to a maverick chroot and no more errors
<MTecknology> is there any guide to lintian?
<MTecknology> I've just been using debuild -S -sa and seeing what errors it reports
<MTecknology> if there's a way I could make it more verbose and yell at me more- I'd actually like that
<Rhonda> I always use lintian -IE --pedantic on the resulting .changes file.
<MTecknology> lol... pedantic
<MTecknology> sounds like my life
<Rhonda> That yields some things that might be ignored, but it catches much more.
<MTecknology> that would be exactly what I was asking for :D
<MTecknology> and it only had one thing to complain about
<Rhonda> It gives things that one might want to think about.
<Rhonda> It also gives typos in upstream code. :P
<MTecknology> I: nginx source: quilt-patch-missing-description nginx-echo.diff
<MTecknology> that's all it gave me :)
<Rhonda> See, and that's a useful thing.
<Rhonda> You *really* should add a patch description. :)
<MTecknology> I'm doing it now
<Rhonda> â¦ given that you did the patch.
<MTecknology> I really need to get my changes merged into debain or I'm going to go insane :P
<MTecknology> diff -urN nginx/modules/nginx-upstream-fair/config nginx.debian/modules/nginx-upstream-fair/config
<MTecknology> what's that?
<MTecknology> Rhonda: there we go - lintian -IE --pedantic whines about nothing
<MTecknology> now to add example files and clean the thing up...
<MTecknology> I might actually do something useful :D
<MTecknology> Rhonda: ebroder: Thanks :)
<MTecknology> If I'm adding default website files to a package that will be viewable from the internet but not changeable (static html 644); would that go in /usr/share/app/web ?
<micahg> MTecknology: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#USRSHAREARCHITECTUREINDEPENDENTDATA
<MTecknology> micahg: perfect, thanks :D
<micahg> MTecknology: actually I think this is what you're looking for: http://webapps-common.alioth.debian.org/draft/html/ch-issues.html
<micahg> hmm, that's a draft, maybe not
<MTecknology> micahg: I'm just putting two static html files there
<MTecknology> micahg: looks like exactly what I needed - thanks much
<micahg> MTecknology: np
<dholbach> good morning!
<MTecknology> dholbach: HI!!!
 * MTecknology pounces
<dholbach> hi MTecknology
<MTecknology> dholbach: howdy, how ya been?
<dholbach> still jetlagged from getting home from UDS but alright, how 'bout you?
<MTecknology> extremely tired - probably feeling about the same as you - I don't really know what jetlag feels like though. I've been getting 3hr/night :P - I'd go to sleep now but I'm too hung up on making this package good enough that some parts can be merged to debian and the rest can find its way into main for natty
<MTecknology> hopefully..
<StevenK> MTecknology: Jetlag is "I'm so tired and broken, I don't know what day it is."
<MTecknology> StevenK: oh.. then ya - I'm feeling about like that- I dealt with a co-working again so I know prior to 00:00 was monday.. he always reminds me what day it is...
<MTecknology> if something is completely lintian clean, used by a lot of people, and blah blah (basically fixing all bugs in the nginx packaging), how hard would it be to get it into main for natty?
<dholbach> go! to! bed!
<dholbach> 3hr/night is only good for killing yourself
<StevenK> MTecknology: We would probably only want one webserver in main
<micahg> MTecknology: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<StevenK> And I like Apache far too much to stop using it.
<MTecknology> dholbach: I've been liquidating my company and it takes a lot to do - especially with the people I've been dealing with - but after that a normal sleep pattern should show up :)
<MTecknology> StevenK: but apache is horrible
<micahg> apache FTW
<StevenK> MTecknology: How is it horrible?
<MTecknology> it's fat bloated and ugly
<StevenK> It's none of those?
<MTecknology> of course it is :)
<MTecknology> religious debates :P
<micahg> MTecknology: main doesn't matter so much unless it's going to be on a CD
<StevenK> And that
<MTecknology> oh
<micahg> MTecknology: only other difference is Security team active support vs community support for security
<StevenK> I like my servers to use main-only, but if you want something like rwhod, you need universe anyway
<micahg> MTecknology: and universe will be going away eventually, so it'll all end up in main :)
<MTecknology> micahg: oh?
<StevenK> ArchiveReorg
<StevenK> I'm unhappy about it, but the only reason I have currently is it turns into scorched earth for mirrors
<MTecknology> universe will be merged with main?
<micahg> MTecknology: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation/Components
<MTecknology> micahg: so will motu go away..?
<micahg> MTecknology: no, name change to Masters of the Unseeded
<MTecknology> .. *blink*
<MTecknology> I was barely starting to understand some of this
 * micahg would explain more, but sleep is calling
<MTecknology> unseeded means?
<StevenK> Packages not in any seeds
<micahg> MTecknology: not in a seed: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/
<MTecknology> seeds meaning?
<StevenK> Things like -desktop and kubuntu are grown from seeds - a list of which packages to include
<StevenK> The seeds live in bzr branches on LP
<MTecknology> like code.launchpad.net/nginx ?
<StevenK> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.natty
<MTecknology> I think maybe after I liquidate my company and get out of school I need to see if I can find a motu mentor to help me get a clue
<MTecknology> I feel like I've been failing pretty bad
<MTecknology> For example - I spent a lot of time working and perfecting one package that's in debian and ubuntu - but I don't know if my work will grow beyond that ppa (hoping it does)
<MTecknology> dholbach: I hear you're a good motu mentor!
<dholbach> no, I'm not
<dholbach> I'm consistently running out of time on most things
<MTecknology> sounds about normal for a FOSS activist :P
<StevenK> dholbach: How's your patch for 30 hour days coming?
<MTecknology> 6hr to sleep and 24hr to work! :D
<dholbach> StevenK, not there yet
<dholbach> ran out of time
<MTecknology> maybe tomorrow I'll fire a request off to the list. I feel like I at least have a slight grasp on some things so maybe I'm not as lost as I feel... or maybe someone will start working with me and a week later come hang me..
<MTecknology> I'm going to pass out for now - see ya'll in about 4hr (unless I decide to sleep in)..
<jrgp> anyone have and recommendations for packaging php scripts or are phpmyadmin/roundcube good enough references?
<persia> Often it's as simple as base boring packaging and a detailed debian/foo.install file.
<persia> Feel free to use something else as a reference, but if it seems complicated, ask immediately, because it oughtn't be.
<jrgp> can you please link me to a good tutorial?
<jrgp> is using dpkg-deb --build bad?
<persia> No, because it's not written up nicely.
<persia> I can link to a slightly out of date one though.
<persia> Yes.
<jrgp> yes i've noticed the inconsistent docs
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingWithoutCompiling
<persia> Needs more people working on them.  If you've time, help is appreciated.
<jrgp> near unlimited, i spend it mostly dealing with forums and my own apps
<jrgp> what's the deadline to get new stuff into notty? and if i instead get it into debian trsting/unstable, will it wind up in ubuntu eventually?
<SpamapS> its actually "natty", and there's a release schedule.. digging up link...
<jrgp> sorry typo on phone
<SpamapS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<jrgp> thanks
<SpamapS> jrgp: you'll want to get it in before FeatureFreeze
<jrgp> rigtht  so pretty much anything debian gets inevitably gets into ubuntu?
<persia> With a few very specific and very intentional exceptions, yes.
<jrgp> neat
<jrgp> stuff like the differing init system?
<persia> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/sync-blacklist.txt
<persia> The list changes regularly, but getting on it is hard: in general, it's easier to make a source package that works fine for both Debian and Ubuntu, and then only maintain the one package.
<micahg> can someone please open tasks for me on bug 669620?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 669620 in gnome-web-photo (Ubuntu) "gnome-web-photo --help shows wrong binary name" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/669620
<persia> micahg, approving...
<micahg> persia: am I correct in that due to the nature of this regression, it's not worth sounding the alarms on?
<micahg> persia: and thanks BTW :)
<persia> I don't think that's a case for all-hands-on critical regression, no.
<micahg> persia: ok
<ari-tczew> TheMuso: ping
<TheMuso> ari-tczew: Just ask your question and I will respond when I am around. About to go AFK, but will answer when I get back.
<ari-tczew> TheMuso: could you merge gnome-speech ?
<TheMuso> ari-tczew: Do you really need it for something? its no longer supported upstream. In fact, in the medium to long term, it needs to e considered for removal, both in Ubuntu and Debian.
<ari-tczew> TheMuso: we are cleaning remaining merges. I can take a look if you are not interested.
<achiang> does anyone know if the plugins shipped in gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg are free/unencumbered?
<achiang> or can point me at the appropriate forum to ask?
<xteejx> webtest 1.2.2-1 FTBFS, but lcoally it builds fine, could it be the recent update to python 2.7 that fixed it? And can I request a rebuild?
<ebroder> xteejx: i'll trigger a build retry
<xteejx> ebroder: Cool, thank you :)
<ebroder> np
<xteejx> If a package is patchless, do we start using quilt or just go ahead and edit the source directly?
<ari-tczew> xteejx: directly
<xteejx> ari-tczew: That's what I thought, wasn't sure. Thank you :)
<ari-tczew> np
<ari-tczew> xteejx: are you going fix all FTBFS related to missed links? :)
<xteejx> ari-tczew: lol Cheeky ;) We'll see how it goes, but I expect an accepted MOTU application for this hehe
<ari-tczew> xteejx: for MOTU you have to show contribution in other areas like merges
<xteejx> meh...that'll be the next things then :)
<xteejx> s/things/thing
 * persia notes that there is no requirement for aspirant MOTU to demonstrate activity in any specific area (including merges), but only a requirement that the aspirant demonstrate care for the quality of the archive as a whole and acceptance as a peer by existing MOTU
<kklimonda_> o/ persia
<kklimonda_> and good evening
<persia> Good morning.
<kklimonda_> does someone know why does gtkmm2.4 has such a weird version appended to libgtkmm-2.4?
<kklimonda_> it's libgtkmm-2.4-1c2a
<persia> probably http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<persia> 'c2' was the result of one ABI transition in Debian, and 'a' the result of another (I forget which precisely).  It's supposed to go away when upstream moves to a new ABI, but those guys have been especially good about maintaining stability and compatibility.
<kklimonda_> :)
<kklimonda_> persia: that's why I was asking, I knew where does the 1 come from but c2a was completely alien to me (it's neither in so name nor in the result of objdump). Should I dig into the document you have linked to read more about this particular case (when upstream doesn't bump abi but for some reason debian does)?
<Rhonda> \o persia :)
<persia> kklimonda_, It's worth reading the document, but it won't help in this case: it just indicates to follow the ABI.
<kklimonda_> persia: I did in the past but I couldn't recall it mentioning this case
<persia> And the cases where Debian bumps ABI but upstream doesn't are rare (like a new version of gcc that generates incompatible C++ code)
<kklimonda_> (I've assumed that it either has been updated or I missed something)
<kklimonda_> right
<persia> No, you didn't miss something.  I think the example I used above was the "c2" part (but I'm unsure).  It happens rarely, and when it happens, affects just about every package in the archive.
<Rhonda> Wasn't that library transition that libgtkmm links in, not within libgtkmm itself?
<Rhonda> What comes to my mind is libpng transitions which happen regularly and require a rebuild of depending libraries to not make things segfault when having one library linked against the old libpng abi and another library against the new one used in the same application.
 * Rhonda . o O ( rule #1: It's always the graphics' libraries )
<persia> I thought we came up with a better way than ABI string extensions to deal with libpng.
<Rhonda> Didn't follow recent development on that grounds. Then it's libjpeg. ;)
<ajmitch> ah, special cases
<persia> But in the case of libgtkmm, I know that at least one of the transitions had to do with how the C++ compiler allocated memory, and I think the other might have been something about ELF format (but I forget: 'c2' was 2004 or 2005 and 'a' was maybe 2006)
 * Rhonda . o O ( rule #2: there's always another graphics format library left to blame )
<ajmitch> was one of them a change in the c++ symbol mangling?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> a standard was introduced
<persia> Maybe that was 'a'
<ari-tczew> hmm. where we should add missing libs? to LDFLAGS or to LIBS?
<ari-tczew> to fix FTBFS
<persia> Depends on the upstream build system.
<ari-tczew> omg, next tone of theory
<ari-tczew> persia: how check it?
<Rhonda> !omg ari-tczew
<Rhonda> huhm
<Pici> You need a pipe
<Rhonda> | missing? :)
<persia> There's no easy way, unfortunately.  One has to look at the upstream build system, and determine how they *use* things like LDFLAGS or LIBS
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: fail? :(
<micahg> Pici: I'm wondering if you highlight on bot failures :)
<Pici> micahg: I just happen to notice them.
<lfaraone> micahg: sure.
<lfaraone> micahg: I doubt that many changes will be necc., since we're not shipping any extensions with it, nor bundling Firefox itself.
<micahg> lfaraone: ok, cool
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-03
<paultag> Any DDs around to review ( and upload if you're feeling rowdy ) a small package I maintain? It fixes two bugs, package is not in Testing, only Unstable.
<paultag> My mentor is out for a few weeks -- I put the dsc on my personal server ( that's how we usually work ) -- http://me.pault.ag/fbautostart_2.7182-2.dsc
<paultag> pbuilds fine, ran lintian with --pedantic, came out great.
<persia> You might also want to try #debian-ubuntu@OFTC
<paultag> persia, I don't like bugging them, seems like it's usually quiet in there, and I don't want to get everyone awake for such a small package :)
<persia> Folk read backscroll, and there's a greater concentration of DDs there than here :)
<persia> Since it's not -mentors, you won't even be repeating yourself
<paultag> persia, cool. Cheers, thanks
<dholbach> good morning!
<hrw> hi
<Rhonda> I guess it's fine to remove jaunty from wiki.ubuntu.com frontpage in the supported release section?
 * Rhonda . o O ( done )
<persia> Rhonda, Indeed, it ought be fine to do so.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: got a time today?
<ScottK> Probably, but not for at least an hour.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: got a time today?
<Rhonda> That were only 20 minutes.
<persia> Indeed.
<\sh> ari-tczew: you queried me
<ari-tczew> \sh: that's right, I wanted to ask about depends on firefox | abrowser | www-browser, but chrisccoulson answered to me yesterday on mozilla team channel. The merge is here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wysihtml/0.13-5.1ubuntu1
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: hmmm, I lost my internet connection 35 minutes ago. I didn't know whether my question has been sent.
<\sh> ari-tczew: oh well, I'm not the right person for <insert your fav browser package here> ;)
<ari-tczew> \sh: but you put this depends to package, so I would ask you.
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: That's what the irclogs are useful for, to check. :9
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/11/03/%23ubuntu-motu.txt
<\sh> ari-tczew: ah...that was long time ago..and actually, we are shipping firefox / mozilla foo instead of debians iceweasel/ape/snake/dog/foo ;)
<ari-tczew> thanks Rhonda. probably I lost connection after my message. really 16/1 mbit is not enough? :)
<Laney> doesn't firefox Provide: iceweasel?
<\sh> Laney: in old times no...I think I touched it during gutsy cycle...so long time ago
<Laney> probably makes more sense for it to provide abrowser anyway
<Rhonda> \sh: It's not "debian's". The reason for the renaming was to unbrand it, not to debian-brand it.
 * Laney has thought about this not at all
<\sh> Rhonda: yes..but regarding upstream of ubuntu == debian ;) that's what I wanted to say...:)
<persia> Rhonda, While that was the rationale, has anyone else (excluding Debian derivatives) adopted that?
<ScottK> persia: If others had it would then be an alternative brand, not an unbrand, so I think that's beside the point.
<persia> ScottK, I agree it's beside the point of Debian rebranding it, but I think it may be the source of the perception that it is a Debian brand.
<Rhonda> persia: Well, ubuntu did unbrand it to "abrowser" in the beginning, and I didn't follow what other distributions did.
<persia> And I ask out of genuine curiosity, rather than in an attempt to suggest Rhonda is misinformed (as this is clearly not the case)
<persia> "abrowser" is still about, and suffers from the same issues (although because the patchset/branding for abrowser differs from that of iceweasel, they oughtn't have the same name)
<\sh> is someone firm with python setuptools and why it doesn't execute install_data action during install anymore, when you overwrite it with your own class?
<ScottK> OK.  I read that as "the change Debian made" rather than Debian's brand.
<ScottK> \sh: I think barry is your man for that question.
<directhex> IceWeasel(tm)(r)
<\sh> ScottK: thx :)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: What's up?
<persia> directhex, Actually, precisely the opposite.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you take a look is package ttf-ubuntu-title mergeable?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Do you have a proposed merge?  Last time I looked it made my head hurt.  It wasn't clear to me if Debian or Ubuntu had the correct source.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: No, I don't. I'm also confused what's going there.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I think the first question is to establish what's the authoritative upstream for the package.  This will take a bit of detective work.
<ari-tczew> mhm
<zesoze> hi where can I get help  for Makefile?
<ari-tczew> crimsun: ping
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: could you take a look on merge package hp-ppd - is it merge or sync?
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: hp-ppd is unmergeable, IIRC
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: due to versions in debian/changelog?
<DktrKranz> exactly: dpkg --compare-versions 0.9-0.1 gt 0.9ubuntu2; echo $? => 1
<DktrKranz> and, IIRC, ubuntu2 alreaedy has the NMU included
<ari-tczew> ok thanks. I must report a bug against MoM - blacklist merges
<eolo999> hi, how do i get a list of open bugs related to python packages?
<ScottK> eolo999: Look for the ~pythonistas and ~pythoneers teams in Launchpad and the bug lists for each.
<eolo999> thx
<eolo999> ;)
<eolo999> ScottK: 2 bugs there (pythonistas+pythoneers), am I wrong?
 * ScottK looks
<eolo999> ok found
<eolo999> i have to list subscribed packages
<ScottK> Looks like you have to do https://bugs.launchpad.net/~pythonistas/+packagebugs
<ScottK> Yes.
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: Are the ~python{istas,eers} subscribed to ALL python packages?
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: No.  They are subscribed to the ones doko and myself noticed.  If some need adding, let me know.
<bilalakhtar> okay
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: could you take a look, whether if you delete package hp-ppd, does MoM will regenerate again?
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: what's wrong with it?
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/11/03/%23ubuntu-motu.html#t15:32
<ari-tczew> due to mistake versions in d/changelog. similiar case as with ilohamail
<cjwatson> I don't see why asking MoM to regenerate would make the slightest bit of difference
<cjwatson> perhaps I'm not understanding your question
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: we can't merge this one. I want to hide it on MoM.
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: and some packages needs hide as well
<cjwatson> the bit of your question that confused me was "does MoM will regenerate again?"
<cjwatson> if your request is to get rid of hp-ppd from the merge list, then I can do that
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: ya, so please do this :)
<cjwatson> in future, please file this sort of thing as a bug against merge-o-matic.  I think I already asked for this a couple of weeks ago
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: file a bug for every package?
<cjwatson> file a bug for each action you wish a merge-o-matic admin to take
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: hmm. or file a one bug for the same action. then updating bug for new action in this same case.
<cjwatson> this means that it won't forever be bottlenecked on just me (while it's true that I'm the only active MoM admin right now, I'm sure that won't always be the case)
<cjwatson> one bug per action
<cjwatson> if you go around reopening bugs for updated actions then I'm guaranteed to get confused.
<cjwatson> and if you aggregate multiple things into the same bug then I'll probably end up picking a random subset of them to do
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: hmm. I've noticed that you're tired working on MoM (or due to pings on you to MoM). sorry then.
<cjwatson> huh?  no, I'm asking for you to use a more convenient form for reports so that I can process them more effectively
<cjwatson> I'm not tired of it
<cjwatson> I just don't want IRC to be the mechanism by which I'm asked for this sort of thing, because it will get lost
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: I got the point. I'll report with list including a couple of packages to hide on MoM.
<cjwatson> and IRC forces me to make a choice between (a) interrupt whatever I'm doing to take the action or (b) forget about it, neither of which is ideal
<cjwatson> thank you
<cjwatson> I think I probably need to add a way to merge-blacklist a single version
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: I just wanted to file a wish against MoM. [16:41] <ari-tczew> ok thanks. I must report a bug against MoM - blacklist merges
<cjwatson> otherwise you'll never find out about future Debian versions of hp-ppd
<cjwatson> that would be Invalid, since it already has a way to blacklist merges
<cjwatson> what it doesn't have is a way to blacklist individual versions from merging
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: hmmm. maybe should be created a separate department like - blacklist.hmtl
<ari-tczew> html*
<cjwatson> if you want the merge-blacklist published, file a bug for that, sure
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: then we won't loose informations about blacklisted merges
<cjwatson> oh, no, I'd rather just blacklist individual versions
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: versions? but I'm afraid about: <cjwatson> otherwise you'll never find out about future Debian versions of hp-ppd
<cjwatson> that's what blacklisting individual versions would fix
<cjwatson> I know what I mean :)
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: mhm.... let's do this then.
<cjwatson> already working on it
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: so - report bug or not? ;)
<cjwatson> report a bug please
<xteejx> Hia ll
<xteejx> Hi all
<xteejx> package threadscope FTBFS, build-dep on libghc6-ghc-events-dev, but its not in our repos. It is in unstable ??
<xteejx> I mean it IS in unstable, can it be synced over?
<persia> xteejx, Try `rmadison -u debian ...`
<geser> xteejx: or the PTS
<persia> Check the NEW queue: it may already have been.
<xteejx> persia: How do I do that?
<micahg> xteejx: it's in natty, might be in NEW
<persia> ( https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+queue )
<xteejx> ahhh :) thanks
<xteejx> persia: Nope, not int eh queue
<xteejx> not in the *
<geser> published 20 hours ago
<micahg> xteejx: it's in natty, just needs to be given back then
<geser> the binaries
<xteejx> given back??
<micahg> xteejx: the build given back for another try to build
<geser> "ask" the buildds to try again
<xteejx> ohhh is that done manually?
<persia> Yeah, needs someone to press the button.
<geser> yes
 * persia goes to press some buttons
<xteejx> in that case, can I ask that threadscope be done too, its only the build-dep stopping it afai can see
 * geser points persia at ubuntu-build if he prefers to use a keyboard instead
 * xteejx points at a cow in the field ... is that it?
 * xteejx presses an udder......ummm that didn't seem to work!?
<persia> geser, Thanks.  I'll try that next time.
 * micahg didn't know it was that easy
<persia> xteejx, threadscope given-back on all architectures
<persia> micahg, If something didn't build, and you have upload rights, a rebuild can be requested.
<xteejx> persia: Wow, either its easy or you work extremely fast, both are good ;) PS Thank you :)
<micahg> persia: that I know, I was just looking at ubuntu-build, it's real simple
 * persia usually encounters failure records from the ubuntuwire FTBFS page, so already has the buttons present
 * micahg is thinking to extend ubuntu-build for packagesets
<geser> micahg: give-back a whole packageset?
<persia> micahg, How so?
<micahg> geser: no, just report on it
<persia> Oh, that's a good idea.  Please do.  Remember that a package can be in an arbitrary number of packagesets
<micahg> persia: indeed, but it would be easier to see if any of the packages in my package set are FTBFS if there was a tool that just looked at those packages
<geser> that wouldn't be too hard to implement
<persia> Err, yeah.  And if I manage to pull off my MOTU hat, I can even see how that might be a good idea.
<geser> perhaps I'll implement it when I find some time for coding (if micahg doesn't get it done before me)
<geser> micahg: can you file a wishlist bug for it?
<micahg> geser: sure, I'll take a look at teh FTBFS page code this weekend and see if there's an easy way to select by packageset
<micahg> geser: I think there should be 2 changes, 1. packagesets added to FTBFS page, 2.  Individual packageset lists
<geser> micahg: shouldn't be that hard, as ubuntu-build can already operate on a package list, you would just need to populate that package list from the packageset instead of the command line
<persia> micahg, For 1) do you mean a per-package list, or separations?
<micahg> geser: and I can already do that with edit_acl.py in the u-a-t
<micahg> persia: just added to the list like the sponsorship queue
<persia> Ah, that ought be fairly easy, indeed.
<geser> micahg: you mean an additional column with the package sets or seperates lists (like for main, universe, etc.) for the package sets? or would you prefer seperate pages for each package set?
<micahg> maybe I can even do it tonight on my way home
<micahg> geser: additional column
<micahg> geser: separate lists might be nice as well, but that can come later
<geser> might be hard to find the needed space for the additional column without making the other ones too narrow
<micahg> geser: we used to have 3 more arches listed, I think I can make it fit ;)
<geser> I was happy to be able to make some columns a little bit wider when some architectures got removed
<micahg> geser: would you prefer listing by packageset instead of the current setup or as another page?
<geser> micahg: if I would be interested in one specific package set, I would prefer to have them in a seperate list (or even page) instead of searching for them in the whole list
<micahg> geser: indeed, but if there's not included in this list, MOTUs might work on the packageset packages where the unseeded need love
<micahg> *they're
<geser> hmm
<micahg> geser: where can I find the code for the FTBFS page?
 * micahg tried lp:ubuntuwire-website
<geser> micahg: https://code.launchpad.net/~geser/+junk/qa-ftbfs or follow the link at the end of the FTBFS page
<micahg> geser: would you prefer a merge proposal or a diff?
 * geser didn't know of lp:ubuntuwire-website
<geser> micahg: merge proposal would probably be better to credit you but a diff works too (what's easier for you)
<micahg> merge is easier in this case
<geser> I'm also thinking about replacing the genshi templates with jinja (or mako)
<micahg> bzr: ERROR: Invalid http response for https://code.launchpad.net/~geser/%2Bjunk/qa-ftbfs/.bzr/branch-format: Unable to handle http code 405: expected 200 or 404 for full response.
<geser> interesting
<ajmitch> that's a bit odd
<geser> just tested "bzr branch lp:~geser/+junk/qa-ftbfs" myself and it worked for me
<ajmitch> proxy breaking it?
<micahg> user error :-/
 * micahg branched the URL instead of lp:
<persia> I don't think the source of the tools that happen to be hosted on ubuntuwire are really the same project as ubuntuwire-website.
 * ajmitch thought that worked, maybe it's only bazaar.lp.net urls that do
<geser> micahg: what about a column which contains only a checkmark if the package is part of a package set and display the packages sets in a tooltip for it? that wouldn't use that much space (additional to the table for each package set)
<persia> Trick there is immediate visual identification for packageset developers.
<persia> But I agree it would be nice not to degrade the experience too much for MOTU (who are likely to be processing the bulk of the page anyway) to support the addition.
<geser> persia: for MOTUs is the mark that the package belongs also to a package set (which one can be seen in the tooltip) and for package set developers are the list with only their package set listed
<persia> Oh, now that's a cool idea.  Yeah, with selection view, tooltip is completely sufficient.
<persia> And MOTU can use the presence in *any* packageset as a hint that it may not be a priority (as MOTU)
<ebroder> Hmm, dumb question, but is there a quick way to get a list of packages I'm TIL for?
<geser> visit MoM and search for your name
<ebroder> Ah, cool. Looks like I'm off the hook for now :)
<ari-tczew> ebroder: or visit http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~lucas/merges.html and search your LP account name
 * ari-tczew is afraid about remaining merges in universe. Number can't fall down under 75 this week.
<persia> ebroder, In general, if you don't have packages for which you feel you have special expertise that will make it easier to proceed (e.g. complex merge and you've been working with Debian to sort it, but it shouldn't be merged because there is an upload to experimental that would be a sync expected next week), don't worry about being TIL.  Someone who needs the update will poke you, or someone will just do the trivial merge post-DIF.
<ebroder> persia: Yeah, sure. I'm just trying to be more responsible this cycle than I was last one
<persia> ari-tczew, The number of outstanding merges is not a useful metric, without a detailed understanding of the status of development on the Debian side for each package on the list.
<ari-tczew> persia: what do you mean? forwarding delta to Debian?
<persia> ebroder, Focus on fixing bugs and being responsive to communication.  Everything else is process wash.
<persia> ari-tczew, Unless you inspect each case in detail, you can't know things like whether the delta is already in Debian VCS, or there are pending uploads to experimental sitting in a team staging repo, or similar.  As a result, the raw number may have absolutely no relation to the work to be done.
<ari-tczew> persia: I always check whether delta is incorporated in Debian.
<ari-tczew> and I don't understand why grabing changes from Debian is wrong.
<ari-tczew> persia: That's not like I don't cooperate with Debian. Lately I gained ace-of-penguins Ubuntu = Debian.
<persia> Grabbing changes from Debian isn't wrong.  It's impossible to know the state of delta incorporation for the vast majority of packages, as they don't have documented public pre-upload source availability.
<ari-tczew> persia: do you know how many changes in Ubuntu are not documented in detail? Looking on your POV, we should do nothing, because there are no details!
<persia> What?  I only said the number that appear in MoM is a useless statistic, not that we shouldn't do merges.
<ari-tczew> persia: okay I have upload access and let me go working, if I'm not doing anything critical.
<persia> You are doing critical stuff.  Please keep doing so.
<ari-tczew> persia: we never will understand in this case
 * ScottK has mashed retry on all the powerpc FTBFS due to archive skew or the python2.7 FTBFS.
<ScottK> powerpc	2	 39 jobs (2 hours 10 minutes) <-- And it built a number already.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: He's not telling you not to do work.  He's just telling you not to worry about counting merges.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: ok
<persia> ScottK, Thanks for the translation :)
<micahg> ScottK: PM?
<ScottK> Sure
<kklimonda_> ScottK: the python-visual ftbfs will take some time so I've assigned it to myself for now. I have to get gtkmm updated first.
<ajmitch> python-visual broke again?
<ScottK> kklimonda_: Thanks.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Needs a rebuild for boost transition, but the gdk-pixbuf .la file disappeared out from under it, so now it's untangling not caring about .la anymore.
<ajmitch> as logn as I don't need to touch boost again...
<kklimonda_> :D
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'm sure we can arrange something.
<kklimonda_> ajmitch: next boost is on me ;)
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: FYI, GNUstep transition complete, now it's just a matter of clearing NBS packages.
<kklimonda_> (famous last words)
<persia> kklimonda_, Brave words, but thanks!
<ScottK> Halleluah (sp?)! A new Boost maintainer.
 * ScottK passes the torch.
<ebroder> ScottK: He said next boost, not all boosts :-P
<ScottK> ebroder: Then he's TIL so as long as the rest of us are careful ....
<ebroder> Ha!
 * persia kinda likes TIL being a level to force people to keep doing stuff rather than a blocker to other people doing stuff
<persia> s/level/lever/
<ScottK> kklimonda_: Just let me know when you have stuff to review.
<xteejx> vpb-driver has been updated in unstable, but doesn't appear on MoM, how come?
<Laney> it was only done today
<xteejx> ohh right, does it take a few days to update, and would it normally show that?
<DktrKranz> xteejx: it won't be on mirrors in lesser than an hour and a half, you have to wait until then
<xteejx> thats no prob, but it will show up right?
<Laney> yeah I usually give at least a day for Debian stuff to be visible to the Ubuntu tools
<xteejx> oh ok, just wondered is all :) thank you
<Laney> if it's urgent then you can grab it from incoming/ftp.d.o directly sooner
<DktrKranz> (already there)
<xteejx> I'll have a look tomorrow, time for bed methinks
<xteejx> night all :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-04
<andreserl>  howdy!! Library packages are not supposed to have Depends on ${python:Depends}, or are they
<ScottK> andreserl: Depends on the library.
<ScottK> If it's written in Python, maybe.
<RAOF> From my memory of the python policy, the answer is ânoâ.  I'd check policy to get a definitive answer, though.
<ScottK> If it's using a python helper like pysupport, pycentral, or dh_python2 it probably needs it, otherwise no and you have to figure it out yourself.
<andreserl> ScottK, ok the package install some python stuff but not in the libraries. So we end up having lintian complaning about empty empty folders
<ScottK> Is the python stuff Python modules or extensions and do you use pysupport, pycentral, or dh_python2?
<andreserl> ScottK, I believe they are modules installed in the pacemaker binary packages. But the libraries (after new package split) only ship the *.so's
<andreserl> s/pacemaker binary packages/pacemaker binary package
<ScottK> If they are modules then you should use one of the helpers and have ${python:Depends}
<ScottK> Obviously you only need that for the binary with the actual modules
<andreserl> ScottK, so that means I can drop the ${python:Depends} for all the library binary packages that only install libraries (*.so) right?
<andreserl> and of course the  libXX-dev too
<ScottK> as long as none of the .so are Python C extensions, yes.
<andreserl> ScottK, how can I determine if they are Python C extensions?
<ScottK> They would install in a python specific directory.
<ScottK> If they are just in /usr/lib, they aren't.
<andreserl> ScottK, ok then :) I guess they are not since they all install in /us/lib
<ScottK> Probably
<andreserl> ScottK, thanks for the help :)
<ScottK> You're welcome
<dholbach> GOOD MORNING!
<Rhonda> Don't shout like that at this ungodly hour!
<ari-tczew> zul: are you going to merge 3 packages in universe where you are Touched In Last?
<zul> ari-tczew: if you want them go ahead
<ari-tczew> ok
<ari-tczew> zul: ATM I'm not interested, but someone else can be. I'm marking them as 'feel free to take'
<zul> ari-tczew: k
<xteejx> subvertpy FTBFS, but builds ok locally, any chance we can give it back?
<Alexqw> Where should I go or who should I poke to get an update on bug 553415?  It's fixed in Maverick but still affects Lucid.  There's a PPA with the fix for xorg-server 1.7.6 for lucid, but there was some talk about backporting all of xorg-server 1.7.7.  Comment 53 in the bug says Timo might be willing to sponsor this fix, but there's been no update on this for awhile.  Can anyone shed some light on this?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553415 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Lucid) "mouse trapped in box for Open Motif" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553415
<ScottK> Alexqw: I'd ask in #ubuntu-x.
<Alexqw> ScottK: Ok, will do.  Thanks
<ScottK> xteejx: I gave back i386.  If that works I'll give back the rest too (subvertpy)
<xteejx> ScottK: Great, thank you Scott :)
<Laney> ScottK: You told me to remind you to sign my key, so here is me doing so
<ScottK> Laney: OK.  Thanks.
<Laney> ty
<apachelogger> ^^
 * sebner pets apachelogger 
<ScottK> xteejx: It worked, so I gave back the others too.
 * apachelogger hides from sebner and goes looking for the mobile guy
<xteejx> :)
<xteejx> thank you
<apachelogger> rbelem: btw, I think this world is ready for a tool to profile startkde, watching process and stuff
 * sebner groans and slaps apachelogger with joy
<apachelogger> oh my
 * ScottK hands apachelogger #kubuntu-devel.
<apachelogger> oh
 * apachelogger hides in #kubuntu-devel
 * Laney welcomes all KDE refugees to #ubuntu-motu
<xteejx> refugees? lol
 * ScottK suspects window confusion due to excessive multitasking.
<apachelogger> multiwindow-multiscreen-multitasking ftw!
<apachelogger> also my UDS notes say that I need to do more rambling in here, not sure why though
 * xteejx sets /rantmode = ON
<ScottK> apachelogger: As long as you do what your notes say, the rationale isn't so important.
<RoAkSoAx> is it possible to see which were the latest packages stored in a pbuild cache?
<geser> ctime of the files?
<RoAkSoAx> geser: well I just updated my pbuilder. And it upgraded some packages and I want to know which are those packages. Because after the pbuilder upadte the packages I'm trying to build, FTBFS
<xteejx> bug 671029 how would I what is suggested with pbuilder-dist ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 671029 in sqlxx (Ubuntu) "sqlxx 2.3.2-9 FTBFS in natty" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671029
<RoAkSoAx> geser: /win 3
<RoAkSoAx> grrr
<RoAkSoAx> sorry :)
<rbelem> apachelogger, i just from lunch time :-)
<rbelem> apachelogger, which tool?
<apachelogger> one you will write :P
<ari-tczew> xteejx: what's the problem?
<ari-tczew> xteejx: Bhavani (coolbhavi on IRC) suggested you to check building on Debian. you must use pbuilder-dist sid.
<ari-tczew> siretart: reading bug 449729 I'm wondering, if isn't it a rebuild request for lucid/maverick?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449729 in emacs23 (Ubuntu) "rebuild with new debhelper to get trigger support" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449729
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: that's a mistitled bug
<cjwatson> oh, wait
<cjwatson> sorry, I was reading the util-linux half.  ignore me.  I see no reason it would be worth rebuilding that for lucid/maverick though - it's cosmetic
<xteejx> ari-tczew: Just saw the message, I'm unable to use pbuilder-dist sid create
<xteejx> because of bug 671067 which I just found
<ubottu> Bug 671067 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/671067 is private
<ari-tczew> xteejx: do you have debian-archive-keyring installed?
<xteejx> I do now ;)
<xteejx> Still doesn't work
<ari-tczew> xteejx: show me error via paste ubuntu com
<xteejx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/525880/
<ari-tczew> xteejx: sudo pbuilder-dist sid create --debootstrapopts --keyring=/usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg
<xteejx> ari-tczew: It's doing something now, rettieving packages
<xteejx> ari-tczew: Is it sid/unstable that I should be checking the build with?
<persia> xteejx, ari-tczew: if 671067 is as easy to work around as that, consider just adding a patch to pbuilder-dist
<xteejx> persia: I woulnd't know how to persia
<xteejx> i.e. to code it in
<persia> xteejx, Ought just be an extra argument passed to pbuilder (pbuilder-dist is just a wrapper).  I don't like to fiddle it, because I'm not a user, and inevitably break something, but it ought be easy.
<xteejx> persia: Hmm, I'll have a look but I'm by no means promising anything since I don't have much experience
<persia> That's precisely the answer I hoped for :)
<xteejx> persia: You should know me by now lol I at least try to fix things even if I "know" I can't :)
<ari-tczew> xteejx: yes
<xteejx> ari-tczew: yes?
<ari-tczew> xteejx: [20:23] <xteejx> ari-tczew: Is it sid/unstable that I should be checking the build with?
<ari-tczew> ...
<xteejx> ari-tczew: Oh right :) Thank uoi
<xteejx> *you
<ari-tczew> xteejx: what's going process?
<xteejx> ari-tczew: huh?
<ari-tczew> xteejx: did the command which I gave you finish?
<xteejx> ari-tczew: It did, yes. It worked perfectly fine, created a sid chroot
<ari-tczew> persia: xteejx showed me error, which I have been affected a few days ago.
<ari-tczew> xteejx: did you update pbuilder?
<ari-tczew> sudo pbuilder-dist sid update
<xteejx> ari-tczew: My sid one? There's no need, I only just created it
<ari-tczew> xteejx: do you want build anything in sid?
<xteejx> I don't think so... update worked ok anyway, just done it :)
<ari-tczew> xteejx: I was wondering that coolbhavi sent suggestion to you about test build a one package on Debian
<xteejx> ari-tczew: Ohhhh, yes, the debian .dsc builds fine in sid
<xteejx> So I didn't forward anything, since its our bug
<ari-tczew> ok
 * achiang wonders if he should subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/671126
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 671126 in pbuilder (Ubuntu) "--keyring argument breaks qemu-debootstrap" [Undecided,New]
<xteejx> persia: I've looked at the wrapper for pbuilder-dist, and it seems that it should already invoke the debian archive keyring http://paste.ubuntu.com/525911/
<micahg> achiang: you should target natty instead of maverick, but after that, yes
<achiang> micahg: ok, thx
<persia> achiang, That's probably better fixed in qemu-bootstrap (since we've hit it in a few other cases).  I'd recommend fiddling with qemu-kvm to do that, instead.
<persia> (qemu-debootstrap is the result of the consolidation of ~7 scripts, and would hugely benefit from someone going over it and making a proper tool)
<achiang> persia: i thought you might say that. :-/
<achiang> persia: you are right though; there is the quick n' dirty fix and the proper fix. fixing qemu-debootstrap is the proper thing to do
<persia> But I'm not sure I understand why 671067 *exists* if --keyring is defined already in pbuilder
<achiang> although arguably the patch i propose above isn't exactly dirty. i think it is a valid change
<persia> Oh, that patch is fine, *but* we'll keep seeing that class of bug until we fix the issue.
<persia> I don't much like workarounds :)
<xteejx> persia: Me neither, looking at the script it *should* just work if debian-archive-keyring is installed, but doesn't
<persia> Oh, my misreading.  It includes ubuntu-archive-keyring, and we need debian-archive-keyring.
<xteejx> persia: No, the script does add the debootstrapopts for the keyring, but it doesn't work, also debian-archive-keyring should really be installed automatically
<persia> Indeed.
<xteejx> I'm looking at it anyway, fingers crossed my brain actually sees seomthing lol
<ari-tczew> who knows, how can I fix this FTBFS: dh_makeshlibs: dpkg-gensymbols -plibapiextractor0.8 -Idebian/libapiextractor0.8.symbols -Pdebian/libapiextractor0.8 returned exit code 1
<xteejx> shouldn't the -ldebian/blahblah be a capital L ?
<ari-tczew> dunno
<xteejx> don't worry ignore me thats probably wrong
<persia> ari-tczew, That usually indicates that there was some ABI skew: you need to check the exposed symbols to ensure it's safe, and regenerate .symbols to reflect that.
<persia> Much of the time that sort of problem means there needs to be a discussion about SONAME.
<ari-tczew> oh my gosh
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stefanlsd/dpkg-gensymbols
<xteejx> persia: I don't think I can do the pbuilder-dist thing, I've tried 3-4 combinations of things I thought *might* work and it hasn't :(
<xteejx> I think I'll leave it or maybe look tomorrow daytime with a fresh head lol
<persia> xteejx, Thanks for trying.
<xteejx> persia: My pleasure :)
<persia> stefanlsd, By the way, when are you putting that in the packaging guide ? :)
<Amaranth> arg, all of these ATI Stream powered video encoders I find insist on upscaling my videos
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ping
<ari-tczew> when Ubuntu has been switched to gcc 4.5?
<micahg> ari-tczew: for Natty
<ari-tczew> hmmm. we should cooperate with upstreams, as Debian not always want include our changes to fix FTBFS, if their packages built fine
<persia> It's an awkward time for Debian just now, because of the release freeze, meaning that lots of changes can't happen.
<persia> But Debian will likely end up needing many of the patches later: the trick is to work closely with Debian to be aware of when they need the patches.
<persia> (especially as lots of things don't need to be all the way upstream, when they are just in packaging)
<siretart> ari-tczew: possibly, but the rebuild is necessary for natty as well, AFAIUI
<kklimonda_> bugs are already being filled in the debian bts against packages that ftbfs with the new toolchain so forwarding patches isn't bad anyway - some of them are just going to rot in their bts longer than others.
<ari-tczew> siretart: so, what's the decision? rebuild for lucid and maverick also?
<ari-tczew> or not?
<persia> It probably doesn't meet SRU criteria, as it works, just not as efficiently as it could.
<siretart> exactly. you can try to start an SRU, but since this is just a warning, I don't think it's worth the efford
<ari-tczew> cjwatson wrote, that it's not enough for SRU
<ari-tczew> hmm. this bug doesn't affect me. I don't need it. I just wanted help Ubuntu users.
<persia> Fix it for natty, and mark it wontfix for the others.
<ari-tczew> persia: there are not open tasks.
<ari-tczew> natty is fixed. siretart has uploaded (sponsored) a merge.
<siretart> and that uploaded closed the bug in question via changelog
<ari-tczew> ok, leave SRUs then.
<persia> ari-tczew, Rather, mark them wontfix with a comment explaining that they don't meet SRU requirements, so users aren't surprised.
 * ari-tczew is lazy.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-05
<ubuntu4shane> !package guide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<genupulas> my empathy not showing online gmail contacts.....can any one help me please
<persia> genupulas, You'll want #ubuntu : this isn't a support channel, and we mostly care for packages that aren't installed by default for any flavour, so don7t do much with empathy anyway.
<genupulas> persia,  tell me a perfect IM
<ubuntu4shane> ok, I have a non-typical source for a python package, when I run sudo dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc in the directory it builds me a nice little deb, however that doesn't seem to be the way to do things according to this:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python
<ubuntu4shane> I would like to build a deb that would be able to go into a ppa, or ideally into a main repo.  I really need a complete a-z guide to teach me how to do this.
<RAOF> !packagingguide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<RAOF> A - Z!
<ubuntu4shane> RAOF, well, sort of.
<RAOF> It doesn't go into Python policy specifically, no.
<RAOF> Although a quick google search will net you http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<ubuntu4shane> RAOF, thanks, I must not have been googling correctly, that debian one, looks like an intense read
<RAOF> Generally a google search of âdebain $X policyâ will get you the relevant policy document as one of the top results.
<RAOF> That will describe the various corner-cases and decisions required to produce a proper $X package.
<ubuntu4shane> well, I never would have thought of googling that!  :)  I'm not a programmer, or a developer, just trying to get a package packaged
<ubuntu4shane> I'm thinking this is all over my head.
<ubuntu4shane> This package here:  http://www.bibleanalyzer.com/download.htm  is what I would love to see properly formatted so that it could be put in a ppa or 'official' repo
<ubuntu4shane> it is funny, written for Windows by the developer, however it is written in python, so works very nicely in ubuntu/linux
<RAOF> If dpkg-buildpackage works you can probably put it in a PPA.
<RAOF> To make it into Ubuntu proper, though, will require making it policy-compliant.
<ubuntu4shane> RAOF, ok, I have a launchpad account for bugs, I seen something in there about a ppa, is that the same?
<RAOF> Yes.
<ubuntu4shane> RAOF, so in theory I have a ppa, and didn't know it?
<RAOF> You've got access to a PPA, yes.
<ubuntu4shane> RAOF, ok, I think I'm wrapping my head around this stuff, thanks
<ubuntu4shane> the dev actually did the packaging of it for Ubuntu, but he really isn't a Linux user at all
<dholbach> good morning!
<Tsar_Evitsa> Hu all
<sladen> dholbach: morgan herr holbach.  Ich sehe das wetter in Berlin ist normal
<dholbach> sladen, Guten Morgen Herr Sladen - das Wetter in Berlin ist eine Katastrophe! Zu kalt! Zu nass!
<Rhonda> *blinks*
 * bilalakhtar fires up google translate
<sladen> dholbach: ...innerhalb toleraz
<ari-tczew> micahg: ping
<xteejx> Hi all
<xteejx> scikit-learn FTBFS because of a directive error in numpydoc.py. There is a fix upstream....
<xteejx> can we just take the fixes even though there is a version difference if it still works?
<xteejx> specifically: http://projects.scipy.org/numpy/changeset/8549
<cjwatson> for natty, you can either backport the fixes or take a new upstream release, whichever is most convenient
<cjwatson> if the latter, best to coordinate via Debian
<xteejx> cjwatson: Wouldn't they ignore it, since they're in freeze?
<cjwatson> that depends.  is it failing to build there too?
<cjwatson> if it is, that would be RC
<cjwatson> you should at the very least ask the Debian maintainer ...
<xteejx> I'm assuming so with the tools in experimental
<cjwatson> they might for instance be interested in uploading a new upstream version to experimental
<xteejx> They doin't have the affect version., its in exp
<xteejx> unstable, sorry
<cjwatson> in fact, there's *already* a new upstream in experimental
<cjwatson>  scikit-learn | 0.5-1 | experimental | source
<cjwatson> is that sufficient?
<xteejx> Yeah, can we take from that?
<cjwatson> sure, requestsync
<xteejx> :O
<xteejx> (gain doing things the long/hard way) hehe
<cjwatson> (-d experimental)
<xteejx> ;)
<xteejx> E: The environment variable UBUMAIL, DEBEMAIL or EMAIL needs to be set to let this script mail the sync request. don't think I have requestsync set up lol
<xteejx> I'll do it manually
<cjwatson> it would probably be time well spent to set up requestsync
<xteejx> does it support SMTP?
<cjwatson> sync requests filed that way are guaranteed to match certain patterns such that they get processed quickly
<cjwatson> search for SMTP in the manual page
<xteejx> I see
<xteejx> All done, I added the --lp option and it worked fine
<xteejx> How do I "extract" a debian .dsc to edit a fix?
<ari-tczew> xteejx:  dpkg-source -x *.dsc
<xteejx> ari-tczew: Cool thank you :)
<ari-tczew> you're welcome
<xteejx> sidenote; I don't know if this is any use to anyone learning but its helped me http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlo17/howto/debian.html
<xteejx> Can we request a sync for a package in debian that we don't have?
<ScottK> xteejx: You can, or you can just wait a bit and it will get in automatically.
<xteejx> ScottK: Its in deb experimental, will that matter?
<ScottK> xteejx: yes.  that will have to be requested.
<xteejx> Ahh Ok, no prob :)
<ari-tczew> xteejx: we have set on autosync on unstable.
<shane4ubuntu> !packaginguide
<xteejx> ari-tczew: So anything in exp gets missed unless its filed manually?
<shane4ubuntu> !package guide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<xteejx> I don't need that, I'm not packaging
<ari-tczew> xteejx: yes. If you want something from Debian, you must request it
<xteejx> Ok :)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Syncs from unstable don't need to be requested now.
<cjwatson> xteejx: I just (coincidentally) sent mail to ubuntu-devel clarifying what you need to request manually
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: ^-
<xteejx> hehe :)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I missed write ..from Debian experimental
<ScottK> ari-tczew: OK.  That's correct.
<xteejx> Hmmm....the newer pkgversion depends on joblib >=0.4.5 but it fails quite badly and I don't know how to fix that :(
<xteejx> I think I'll give up on that one to be honest :(
<ari-tczew> xteejx: joblib is FTBFS. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/joblib/0.4.3-1
<ari-tczew> looking on the buildlog, it's related to python
<xteejx> ari-tczew: That's the same error in the exp version I tried
<xteejx> I'm moving on to something else anyway. When the joblib FTBFS is fixed, the other will work
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: That's an interesting FTBFS. It looks like our buildds don't have /dev/shm mounted
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: could you consider merge usbmount (universe)? last uploader is not interested.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: He's a pretty busy person, perhaps he's not the best one to try to assign work to.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: You might send a mail to the ubuntu-motu ML looking for a volunteer if you aren't up for it.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: This is not very important priority. I just wanted ask cjwatson due to I think that he is familiar with similiar packages.
<ScottK> OK.  He's one of the busier people on the Ubuntu foundations team.
<ari-tczew> I've noticed, that he is hard-working.
 * geser wishes that Debian would have build logs for all architectures
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I pinged you yesterday. About your patch in hylafax: I suggest to replace it with upstream fix.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: sure, I can look at that
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I thought the DD responsible for it was busy in ubuntu?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: was busy in Ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> err, kept an eye on his package in ubuntu, and responded to bug reports
<shane4ubuntu> I setup a ppa, and tried to add my own ppa to my system, and get this: Error: can't find signing_key_fingerprint
<shane4ubuntu> I added a key, just today though, does it take a while to import?
<ScottK> shane4ubuntu: PPA support is in #launchpad.
<shane4ubuntu> ScottK, ahh, ok, thanks
<ScottK> No problem.
<shane4ubuntu> ScottK, on a side note does launchpad belong to ubuntu?
<ScottK> shane4ubuntu: No.  They are separate projects that just happen to be both sponsored by Canonical.  Ubuntu is a user of Launchpad.
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I've forwarded your patch to Debian. Response was very quickly. Read more on comments, debian bug 565001
<ubottu> Debian bug 565001 in hylafax "hylafax: ftbfs with gcc-4.5" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/565001
<sladen> shane4ubuntu: Ubuntu is a user of an instance of Launchpad
<shane4ubuntu> ScottK, ok, once again, thanks + sladen
<ScottK> sladen: There's more than one?
<sladen> shane4ubuntu: just like anyone can run their own Apache, anyone (can if they wish) setup and run an instance of Launchpad
<azeem> yeah; I do this every time I'm bored for 5 minutes
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: you saw Giuseppe Sacco's e-mail? he was active in the ubuntu bug for this, and (presumably) got this fix in upstream
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: yes I saw
<shane4ubuntu> sladen, that is kind of what I thought, because if someone just goes to launchpad, sometimes it is difficult to find the right place to report a problem, but we digress, thanks for the info
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I'm happy to wait for the fixed version via Debian
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: so, what do you think about replace your patch with fix from git?
<ari-tczew> (avoid not shipping homemade patches, prefer to use cherry-picking)
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I don't think it's worth the effort. My patch was a hack, but it'll go away when we next sync. Unless we need to merge in the meantime, in which case the upstream fix is probably preferable
<tumbleweed> it doesn't actually matter how we fix this bug - my fix isn't *bad* just ugly
<sladen> shane4ubuntu: I tend to hand-type the URLs;  eg.  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/package-name/+filebug
<sladen> shane4ubuntu: since clicking your way around the maze is often quite time-consuming
<tumbleweed> keyword bookmarks are great for that (I have lpts = https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/%s)
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: ScottK's right in general.  I looked at this one; I think we can just sync it since Debian is now installing to our current udev rules location and the rest of the changes aren't worth carrying.  I'll deal with that
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: thanks!
 * cjwatson uses requestsync for the first time ;-)
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: BTW, did you check with Bhavi that he wasn't interested in doing that merge, or were you going by the comment on MoM?
<cjwatson> hopefully this wasn't an example of a stale comment ...
<tumbleweed> bdrung: hmm, looks like we need to set DEB_VENDOR for dpkg-source, too: http://raphaelhertzog.com/?p=942
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes. patches are welcome. :)
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: as I wrote in the 2nd part of my question to you: last uploader is not interested.
<ari-tczew> I asked Bhavi, don't worry
<cjwatson> ok, cool, I just wanted to check your source for that comment :-)
<ari-tczew> ; ))
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah, I'll look at it. There are probably also more places we need to support UBUMAIL
<Rhonda> I guess axp should get removed from natty?
<micahg> ari-tczew: pong
<ari-tczew> micahg: are you going to merge gxine (universe) ?
<micahg> ari-tczew: that was just uploaded today to unstable, but yes, I'll do it, just not now
<micahg> or yestaerday rather
<ari-tczew> micahg: could you comment it on MoM?
<micahg> ari-tczew: done
<cjwatson> I thought we had this out already.  People shouldn't need to explicitly say that they will merge things for which they're touched-it-last; it should be the default assumption.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: what's the conclusion?
 * micahg also thought we weren't supposed to bother with debian revisions this early in the cycle
<mr_pouit> (especially if the debian upload is a few hours old)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: The conclusion is assume the TIL person will do it.
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: you were the only one who thought that people needed to explicitly say, AFAICT ...
<ScottK> There is plenty of time after DIF to deal with the ones that aren't done.
<ari-tczew> cjwatson, ScottK: not everyone is inetrested in merging
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: then we can deal with that after DIF
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: at this point, it's noise
<ScottK> ari-tczew: You are disturbing a lot of people to little purpose right now.  Patience please.
<cjwatson> micahg: you're welcome to, but it's often not particularly urgent
<micahg> cjwatson: right, and I have plenty of WI for Natty :)
<ari-tczew> I just want clean up universe outstanding merges in natty.
<Laney> post DIF is the time for that.
 * ari-tczew is looking when is DIF...
<Laney> (and it's worth noting that a merge is not always worthwhile)
<Laney> (so "clean up" and "outstanding" might not be right)
<ari-tczew> December 30th. at the end of the year.
<cjwatson> cleaning up merges is a reasonable goal, certainly - but I think poking people about merges created yesterday is going a bit far
<Laney> Checking the list is a ~fortnightly thing for me, so yes.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: What would be useful is checking up on merges that are left over from Maverick and before untouched.
<ScottK> Clearly no one is doing those.
 * micahg actually has one claimed on that list as well :-/
<ScottK> cjwatson: Do you still have the script you used to get a list of very stale merges and could you reasonably easily produce another list for people to work on?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: hmmm. OK I got your point. Example, there are packages waiting so long, like gnome-* related.
<cjwatson> ScottK: oh, yes - running
<cjwatson> hm, now how was it I constructed the sample Sources files
<cjwatson> ah yes, I helpfully put URLs in the spec
<ari-tczew> I'll slow down in asking of merges. I'll be a bit busy till 10th Dec.
<cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/526429/ - I'll sort out mailing ubuntu-devel about it in a bit
<cjwatson> wouldn't mind cleaning up a few of my own there first ;-)
<cjwatson> that's anything unmerged since http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20100211T033845Z/dists/squeeze/
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: this is generated by script?
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/526431/
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: huh, only 47
<cjwatson> not as bad as you thought, eh? ;-)
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: Certainly. I see that some of them are in main and universe.
<cjwatson> yep
<cjwatson> the ones in main are there due to being excruciatingly painful to do, mostly
<ScottK> ari-tczew: You are completely welcome to sort out ttf-ubuntu-title.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: Too hard for me. This package should review upstream author.
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: are you able to create a special MoM department for this list?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: OK.  Perhaps you could hunt them down and get advice?
<cjwatson> uh, I suppose in principle but not at the moment ...
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I can send a message.
<cjwatson> file a wishlist bug please?
<ari-tczew> ok
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Sounds good.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Do you have an amd64 system to work on (mine are all i386)?
<cjwatson> (for the avoidance of doubt, I generally think asking about merges is OK if they're actually blocking something else - on the principle that it's good to get unblocked as quickly as possible)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: Unfortunately, not.
 * achiang wonders what ari-tczew is doing with #671445
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
<ari-tczew> achiang: testing?
<ScottK> If someone has an amd64 chroot/vm to play in and has a few minutes, I'd appreciate it if they could investigate why https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libclamunrar/0.96.4-1/+build/2025789 is failing.
<ari-tczew> achiang: please complete DEP3 tags in your 15*.diff patch?
<achiang> ari-tczew: will do.
<achiang> ari-tczew: i was only asking because i haven't seen other ubuntu-sponsors assign bugs to themselves before.
<achiang> ari-tczew: so i was curious
<ari-tczew> achiang: If sponsor has assigned to themselve, it means that he will sponsor it.
<ari-tczew> maybe not in 5 minutes, but will do it
<achiang> ari-tczew: ok, thank you for the explanation. i didn't see that described in the MOTU wiki page, which is why i asked.
<RoAkSoAx> can a -dev binary package Depend on other -dev binary packages (library -dev packages) of the same source
<RoAkSoAx> ?
<geser> sure, why not
<RoAkSoAx> geser: and should all libXX-dev depend on libXX ?
<geser> yes, else the .so symlink is dangling
<RoAkSoAx> geser: ok thanks :)
<DktrKranz> ScottK: I have a box, if you want to do some tests
<seidos> what in the...never even heard of squid, haproxy, puppet, nagios, and asterisk
<jpds> seidos: Where have you been?
<xteejx> Hi all
<xteejx> I'm thinking of starting on merges, have done numerous FTBFS, what is the workflow?
<Rhonda> hurmpf
<Rhonda> I want a better network connection.
<Rhonda> working on sulfur is not funny from here.  %-/
<micahg> Rhonda: PM?
<jpds> Rhonda: traceroute?
<Rhonda> jpds: mtr doesn't look too evil
<Rhonda> m... said too early. Now it started give me 40% packet loss
<Rhonda> micahg:  yes?
<xteejx> If the only thing in REPORT is debian/control, that means it's a full merge, i.e keeping all Ubuntu changes, right?
<xteejx> apart from any incontrol itself
<micahg> xteejx: not necessarily
<micahg> xteejx: but usually
<xteejx> micahg: This is where I get confused with merges
<micahg> xteejx: also, general rule is person who touched it last merges, but sometimes people upload a quick fix and have no interest in the package
<xteejx> there is no mention in the debian changelog of our chnges, so I assume they werent sent upstream or not needed/implemented
<micahg> xteejx: you might want to read the discussion about an hour ago on this channel
<xteejx> time to scrollback ;)
<xteejx> I get the gist of what was said :)
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I'm guessing it's trivial to understand one you have the failed build.  Could you build it locally and have a look (if not, access later would be great)?
<xteejx> version .65-1 in unstable 04/2008, updated 03/2010 to the version we have now
<xteejx> I don't see any clues relating to someone working on the merge
<Rhonda> ah, cable network, much better
<geser> xteejx: which package are you trying to merge?
<xteejx> geser: console-tools
<xteejx> it was the first one without a comment on mom
<micahg> xteejx: as cjwatson said, comments should be required to own merges
<micahg> *shouldn't
<xteejx> no but the last update was 3 deb versions ago in 2008
<xteejx> ie karmic
<micahg> xteejx: then you should be ok :)
<xteejx> :)
<geser> xteejx: from just a quick on the Ubuntu delta, I'd suggest you to pick an other (easier) merge for your first merge
<xteejx> geser: Hmm, it looked easy at first glance tbh, what would you suggest? A minor version change or something?
<geser> xteejx: it's not about minor/major version change but more about the amount and size of the Ubuntu delta
<xteejx> Its not my first merge, but it'll be one of them :)
<geser> you can take "lustre" from me if you want
<xteejx> So one where our changes are small and therefore easier to do?
<xteejx> geser: huh?
<geser> I mean merge "lustre" (from my pending merges)
<xteejx> Just like a good developer..here's my workload ;) hehe :)
<xteejx> I'll have a look :D
<Rhonda> Why would one block outgoing git:// connections?  :/
<geser> at least I won't complain that somebody took my merges :)
<xteejx> haha :)
<xteejx> geser: I've looked at the changelogs, am I right in thinking this would be a full merge?
<geser> yes, I just looked quickly at our changes and it looks like all need to be kept (I guess I forgot to forward the bashism one :( )
<xteejx> ok have removed the diff3 markers in the bashisms.dpatch file, should be ok now?
<xteejx> Obv will test buil
<xteejx> d
<xteejx> bloody fireworks
<geser> fireworks?
<xteejx> geser: Yup
<xteejx> Nov 5th in the UK is a celebration of Guy Fawkes trying to blow up the houses of parliament
<xteejx> so much for hating terrorism....
<xteejx> hmmm the bashisms pacth doesn't apply to the new db version
<xteejx> deb*
<geser> check if it's still needed or if it got silently fixed
<ari-tczew> xteejx: due to structure of file? or are you applying by patch?
<xteejx> I'm going thru each of the to-be-patched files, loks like it's just moved around
<xteejx> huh?
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: bug 671542
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 671542 in Merge-o-Matic "Separate department for required merges" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671542
<xteejx> geser: None of the chnages were made upstream
<xteejx> Could it just be the line numbers?
<xteejx> also there's "diff --git a/ldiskfs/configure.ac b/ldiskfs/configure.ac" which I haven't seen before
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: could you check why dssi exist on universe? It has been synced
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I just got your mail, is it true? thanks for notifying
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I don't lie. ; ))
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: BTW, what do you mean by TIL ?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: Touched In Last,
<bilalakhtar> aha
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: 2nd mail sent.
<ari-tczew> Cc'ed to Bhavi also.
 * bilalakhtar checks
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: this list of merges is what?
<bilalakhtar> What do you mean by out-of-date merges?
<bilalakhtar> Merges that have been stagnant since long?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: http://paste.ubuntu.com/526506/
<bilalakhtar> thanks
<ari-tczew> sex
<Rhonda> \o/
 * bilalakhtar would have bashed ari-tczew had he been here
<Rhonda> sex is long removed from both Debian and Ubuntu
 * Rhonda dances the happy dance: http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/wesnoth
 * chilicuil dances too ^_^
<DktrKranz> ScottK: here's debian/ content after build failure: http://pastebin.com/9dzw6Xgy
<DktrKranz> it installs under lib64, while .install files only looks under usr/lib/
<ScottK> slangasek: Did something change between Debian and Ubuntu where Ubuntu installs into lib64 on purpose?
<slangasek> ScottK: in the name of all that is holy, no
<slangasek>  /lib64 is a symlink to /lib - nothing should install to /lib6 4
<slangasek> nor /usr/lib64
<ScottK> OK.  I didn't think so, but I'm left wondering how this works on Debian and not Ubuntu then.
<Rhonda> chilicuil: Do you see why I do it? ;)
<ScottK> It wasn't built on a buildd for Debian, so hard to know.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Could I have the buildlog please.
<chilicuil> Rhonda: not sure, I do dance because of a nice update in wesnoth n_n
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Nevermind.  The buildd log is enough.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: if you want me to do additional tests, I still have chroot open
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I think it's OK for now.  Thanks.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: this is build log for unstable/amd64: http://debomatic64.debian.net/unstable/pool/libclamunrar_0.96.4-1/libclamunrar_0.96.4-1.buildlog
<DktrKranz> libtool issue?
<ScottK> I think so.
<ScottK> make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all-am'. is the first place they differ.
<DktrKranz> -checking for multiarch libdir... ${exec_prefix}/lib
<DktrKranz> +checking for multiarch libdir... ${exec_prefix}/lib64
<DktrKranz> this is interesting
 * ScottK wonders who slangasek needs to hunt down and kill.
<DktrKranz> root@debomatic64:/pack/libclamunrar-0.96.4# gcc -print-multi-os-directory
<DktrKranz> ../lib64
<DktrKranz> that's weird...
<slangasek> myself, maybe :)
<slangasek> I think I was the last person to touch that part of gcc, in preparation of multiarch :)
<ScottK> That'll save on travel time.
<slangasek> although, I thought those patches were pushed by way of Debian
<slangasek> so maybe the package will regress on rebuild in Debian too?
<ScottK> It wasn't built on a buildd in Debian, but it builds correctly on DktrKranz's system.
<slangasek> hmm
<DktrKranz> exactly, just built on a up-to-date pbuilder
<slangasek> time for a gcc bisect, I guess
<ScottK> slangasek: Can I leave this with you and do you want me to file a bug?
<sebner> ScottK: is it then murder or suicide. both prohibited though :D
<ScottK> sebner: Suicide being prohibited is a matter of culture.  In some cultures it's an honorable alternative to disgrace.
<slangasek> ScottK: I'm not going to have time to look at it more deeply today; if someone can bisect gcc to figure out what's changed, that would be ideal
<slangasek> DktrKranz: fwiw, here's the gcc output for me on maverick amd64:
<slangasek> $ gcc -print-multi-os-directory
<slangasek> ../lib
<slangasek> so I guess that's a natty gcc regression
<DktrKranz> yup
<ScottK> slangasek: As soon as you say gcc and bisect I know it's not me that will do it.
<sebner> ScottK: in the minds but not in the law, no?
<slangasek> :-)
<ScottK> sebner: It's only a matter for the law if you suck at it.
<sebner> heh
<sebner> definitely
<sebner> slangasek: you hear that? :P
<ScottK> slangasek: I'll leave it for you for next week then.
<slangasek> sebner: ah, but I only touched gcc in maverick, I haven't touched it in natty
<ScottK> Right, so we blame doko.  He's not here this week.
<Rhonda> chilicuil: I danced because of the screenshot ;)
<sebner> slangasek: heh, I guess you can keep your life then :D
<ari-tczew> what do you think about script 'requestmerge' like requestsync? Automatically creating merge requests as usual, reducing manual work.
 * micahg thought he filed a bug for that
<micahg> ari-tczew: not automatically, since not each new version gets merged, but as a way for a person with a diff to request a merge and subscribe sponsors
<ari-tczew> micahg: hmm, not exactly I mean. Script can reduce a work with filing new bug, putting title and changelog from Debian.
<micahg> ari-tczew: yes, but only if someone has worked on it or is imminently working on it, since not each version is merged
<ari-tczew> micahg: "not each version is merged" => I don't take it in 100%. could you explain it for me?
<micahg> bug 611121
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 611121 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "add a requestmerge script" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611121
<micahg> ari-tczew: we don't merge every single Debian revision, therefore auto bug creation is not a good idea
<DktrKranz> slangasek: I just looked at the gcc-4.5 delta between debian, it's quite short, and seems OK. Maybe problem has to be found in binutils.
<DktrKranz> ScottK, slangasek: mh, no. I just reproduced the issue on Debian too, after installing gcc-4.5 and related gcc-defaults packages from experimental.
<slangasek> ok
<ari-tczew> micahg: are you sure that gcc 4.5 has been included in natty? not in maverick?
<micahg> ari-tczew: it's in maverick, just not the default
<ari-tczew> aha
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<hakermania> Hello. Can please anybody tell me why is Ubuntu still frozen ? (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/) I am waiting 3 months now to upload my app but 2 months prior to Ubuntu Maverick (10.10) release the Ubuntu was Frozen because of the existing bugs that had to be fixed in some applications. But now I don't see a reason for Ubuntu to be frozen! REVU says nothing about uploading for Ubuntu 11.04, it only says 'Ubuntu is frozen' without any explanation. Can any
<persia> hakermania, Ubuntu isn't frozen.
<hakermania> That's what REVU says.
<persia> It's probably just oversight.  Note that there's no promise everything in REVU gets reviewed, so the text is more advisory than meaningful.
 * persia tries to figure out why
<persia> Looks like it needs a REVU Hacker to fiddle it (I'm only REVU admin, so have limited permissions to make that kind of change)
<persia> (and if I'm wrong, I'd like to know how to switch this)
<hakermania> --_--' omg, I'm waiting 3 months now ubuntu to unfroze
<hakermania> :|
<hakermania> Please, tell me, should I only use dput to upload my app or is there any other way to upload the package from inside the site?
<persia> dput is the right way to upload stuff.
<persia> But getting stuff reviewed is a bit trickier :)
<persia> tumbleweed, Do I remember correctly that you have audio logs from UDS?
<hakermania> tumbleweed's in here? He really helped me to build the source :)
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: I just noticed, that packages.ubuntu.com has been updated! \o/
<tumbleweed> persia: I do for wednesday onwards ( mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-n ). Some files play best in VLC (I shouldn't have appended when reconnecting)
<persia> tumbleweed, Thanks!
<persia> Do you know if any other recordings are up for Mon/Tue ?
<tumbleweed> no (which is why I started recording :P )
<persia> Darn.  There was some stuff then I'd like to hear too, but thanks *a lot* for having Wed-Fri up.
<tumbleweed> np, I've got the script now and will run it next UDS (assuming we don't get official recordings sooner)
<hakermania> Should the name given on the REVU username be same with the name of my GPG key?
<persia> hakermania, No such requirement.  My REVU username is "persia", which has no relation to my name, and only shows in my GPG key because one of my email addresses includes that.
<hakermania> Ok, I understand this, but by simply giving dput revu package_version_source.changes how does REVU knows which user are you? Probably from the signed files, but what if the signed files have different NAME and EMAIL from you REVU account? How will REVU understand who from its users uploaded the package?
<persia> REVU usernames are mapped to OpenID requests to launchpad.  The GPG signatures on the packages are mapped to a keyring containing the GPG keys of every LP account that logged into REVU.
<persia> Yes, this is fragile, but basically, if you told LP your username and your GPG key, it ought just work.
<ari-tczew> persia: hey, I saw you're revelation user. Do you use natty desktop?
<persia> Some of my systems are still jaunty :)  What did you need tested?  What is it blocking?
<ari-tczew> persia: I've prepared a merge. Could do I send a .deb to test for you?
<ari-tczew> I ran this application, try to save, edit a new object and it didn't crash. Seems to be fine.
<persia> I don't have working kernels in natty for most of the environments I *could* upgrade.  Simple test case is to create a keyfile with the maverick version, and then make sure you can *read* that keyfile with the natty version.
<persia> (otherwise every user will want to hunt you)
<persia> (plus I don't accept .debs that aren't in the archive)
<ari-tczew> persia: from my side, it works fine. I'm going to upload.
<persia> Did you try the test I suggested?  If not, you will want to get someone else to test it that way, or be prepared for some frustration.
<hakermania> How do i tell LP my GPG key?
<hakermania> ok
<hakermania> found it
<ari-tczew> persia: Create, save and load on maverick.
<ari-tczew> why shouldn't work?
<persia> I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work, but the program is designed to safely store cryptographic secrets, so it's probably designed to make them mostly unrecoverable.
<persia> That makes it very important to test carefully, even though the risk of a problem is low, because the consequences of the problem have a high impact.
<persia> I usually think of it as an equation: chance of something breaking * impact of it breaking = importance to make sure it doesn't break.
<persia> So, for this sort of thing, create a file with the old version, read it with the new version, and feel comfortable that your upload won't make someone lose their passwords.
<persia> (because not everyone has the luxury of sufficient hardware to test things properly before upgrading production systems)
<ari-tczew> persia: ok, so create a file on already existing package and load on my merged?
<persia> That's how I'd test it if I was doing the merge.
<persia> (and how I'd test it for you if my laptops were either functional or able to run natty (depending on the laptop))
<ari-tczew> persia: how many computers do you have?
<persia> I lost count years ago.
 * ari-tczew is going to bed. G'night.
<hakermania> thx for the support. G'night
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-06
<jdong> hmm, linux-tools from lenny-backports is built against binutils from lenny (non-backports)?
<jdong> *scratches head*
<jdong> it's anomalies like this which make me hesitant about the whole cherrypick-from-backports idea
<jdong> not that there's a "correct" answer to whether or not linux-tools should build with the toolchain from backports, though....
<Rhonda> What is needed to block wesnoth-1.9 from natty?
<directhex> Rhonda: one of these guys: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_owN7osPiFRo/S_PSmG6HyxI/AAAAAAAAAMw/9wsxd6Da5h4/s1600/IMG_0109.jpg
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: Congrats and welcome to the DMB!
<bdrung> thanks bilalakhtar
<ScottK> Rhonda: It's already in Natty.  If you want it removed, file a bug asking for removal and sync blacklist and subscribe ubuntu-archive.
<jetienne> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58738628/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.nodejs_0.2.4~maverick1~ppa201011061723_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <- somebody cares to look at this ? the build was working fine on 10.04, and now it is failing on a litian stuff in dh_buildeb
<kklimonda_> jetienne: for some reason files are installed in /usr/local and not in /usr
<jetienne> kklimonda_: yep but how come it worked without trouble in lucid and is failing now in maverick ?
<paultag> jetienne, I hate to be nit-picky -- but what's this line -- echo this is failling but i dunno why, so i disable \n this is failling but i dunno why, so i disable
<jetienne> paultag: this is where i admit that i just pacakging to help friends. im not a pro
<kklimonda_> jetienne: there is nothing obvious in the log so you'll have to build it locally and investigate
<jetienne> kklimonda_: this is the key problem :) it build as src and as bin .deb on my vm
<paultag> jetienne, what's your rules file look like? -- looks like you override | override_dh_usrlocal
<jetienne> override_dh_usrlocal:
<jetienne> 	echo this is failling but i dunno why, so i disable
<jetienne> paultag: this is the line currently existing in the Rules
<jetienne> http://pastebin.com/X7mgpC1a <- the whole Rules
<paultag> jetienne, do you have a log that ended successfully from Lucid you could post?
<jetienne> paultag: let me look
<jetienne> https://launchpad.net/~jerome-etienne/+archive/neoip/+packages <- the nodejs package for lucid is still there i cant find the build log
<jetienne> maybe you can
<paultag> OK
<paultag> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58168485/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.nodejs_0.2.4~lucid1~ppa201010250818_BUILDING.txt.gz <-- that's one
<jetienne> ok
<jetienne> dpkg-deb --build debian/nodejs .. <- this is going ok on lucid
<paultag> you should use pbuilder with dpkg-buildpackage -S jetienne
<jetienne> paultag: ? i dont understand, can you give more details ?
<paultag> jetienne, just in general -- you should use dpkg-buildpackage -S to create the dsc file, and then use pbuilder to build in a chroot. Say... I wonder.
<paultag> jetienne, it could be that you have a dependency issue, are you ensuring all the build-depends are being installed?
<kklimonda_> jetienne: lucid build is also wrong
<kklimonda_> no package should install files in /usr/local/
<paultag> +1 kklimonda_, but that does not explain the FTBFS
<kklimonda_> the reason the build doesn't fail on lucid is most likely because maverick "buildchain" has been made more strict
<jetienne> paultag: i dunno but the binary is built without issue
<paultag> Oh yes, I see kklimonda_
<paultag> INFO: Disabling pkgbinarymangler for PPA build
<paultag> for Lucid
<jetienne> kklimonda_: how come it build on maverick locally then ?
<jetienne> what is this pkgbinarymangler ?
<paultag> jetienne, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pkgbinarymangler
<jetienne> pkgbinarymangler consists of a dpkg-deb wrapper that calls helper applications while building a debian binary package <- ok
<paultag> jetienne, fix up the install issues and you should be OK. Try testing in pbuilder
<jetienne> which install issues ?
<paultag> jetienne, installing to /usr/local/
<jetienne> override* is no more honnored ?
<kklimonda_> jetienne: pkgbinarymangler works on a different level
<jetienne> kklimonda_: i dont understand
<kklimonda_> jetienne: override_dh_usrlocal doesn't stop pkgbinarymangler from doing its magic
<jetienne> kklimonda_: can i prevent it from doing that ? or to have it honnor the usual rules override ?
<kklimonda_> jetienne: you should fix the build system to install files in /usr and not in /usr/local
<kklimonda_> but, to answer your question, I have no idea
<jetienne> kklimonda_: unfortunatly i cant
<jetienne> ok thanks anyways
<kklimonda_> why?
<jetienne> because if i do other stuff break
<kklimonda_> there is something wrong with either your build rules or with upstream build script - either should be fixed.
<jetienne> how can i make my local build to use pkgbinarymangler ?
<jetienne> kklimonda_: well just trying to help friends, not to fix the whole world :)
<kklimonda_> jetienne: well, nodejs has ben packaged for maverick and natty so you can just reuse their rules
<jetienne> kklimonda_: ok i got your point. unfortunatly i cant
<jetienne> currently all i want is to be able the pacakge locally the same way ppa is doing it
<jetienne> thus i could try to fix this problem without waiting 30min at each iteration :)
<kklimonda_> jetienne: then make sure you have pkgbinarymangler installed and it should be used
<jetienne> ah ok pkgbinarymangler provides another dpkg-deb binary
<kklimonda_> (because you already use dpkg-deb)
<jetienne> kklimonda_: thanks trying
<jetienne> dh_builddeb: dpkg-deb --build debian/nodejs .. returned exit code 1 <- excelent :)
<hakermania> Hi, is it true that only packages for natty are currently accepted (as REVU says) ?
<lifeless> yes
<hakermania> And where can I download a beta version of natty to test my app on it?
<lifeless> there is a separate process for backports to maverick
<lifeless> and also another one for 'extras' for averick.
<lifeless> you can upgrade from maverivk to natty
<lifeless> no cds yet
<hakermania> I don't get you. Can you explain me a bit better, because on REVU I've seen a lot of recent packages being rejected because of 'Package is for "lucid" but only packages for     "natty" are currently accepted.' and i don't want to have the same problem with my own app.
<hakermania> So where should I try my app to ?
<kklimonda_> hakermania: well, that depends on what you are aiming for. If you'd like to get your (open) application into Ubuntu you should use REVUand aim for natty, and after that request backport to every stable release you care about. This process in, unfortunately, pretty long one.
<kklimonda_> you could also try to get your application into current stable release and skip development one by using the new process which involves application review board. But it's a new process and I'm not sure if they are actually accepting applications at this time.
<ScottK> They are accepting applications, but nothing has been approved yet.
<hakermania> So, let's say I 've tested my app in maverick and works just fine, is there any other thing I have to do to avoid the pre-mentioned error about natty or I should upload my package to REVU instantly?
<Rhonda> ScottK: Thanks, will do so.
<kklimonda_> hakermania: you should test if your application builds on natty (there are few ways of doing that without actually running natty on your computer) and then, in the changelog target natty release instead of maverick.
<kklimonda_> ScottK: ah, right.
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<kklimonda_> ScottK: is there an actual list of applications that are being proceeded at this time by the ARB?
<ScottK> kklimonda_: I've no idea.  I only know what I do because it was mentioned at UDS.
<hakermania> kklimonda_: I searched for downloading a beta version on natty to test in on a virtual machine or something but I found nothing. Can you send me a link or something?
<kklimonda_> hakermania: there are no natty images currently available, you have to install 10.10 and use apt-get dist-upgrade to upgrade.
<kklimonda_> hakermania: but you can create a simple scroot (by using pbuilder or similar tool) just to check whether your package builds fine.
<hakermania> Omg, i think my prog will work fine in natty, I'll simply change the changelog to natty --_--' I hope one day packaging process and policy will become easier and simpler!
<Rhonda> ScottK: hmm, wenn I click subscribe and enter ubuntu-archive, it gives me two. The one I expected, but also "Ubuntu Archive Auto-Sync". Should I (also) subscribe the later because of the sync blacklist? It somehow sounds fitting and made me uncertain.
<kklimonda_> s/scroot/chroot/
<ScottK> Rhonda: You want exactly ubuntu-archive
<ScottK> That's the actual team of people that maintain the blacklist.
<Rhonda> Right, that's the one I always used before anyway. But the other got me confused, that's why I ask.
<xteejx> Hi guys
<xteejx> bug 671222 - is python-gconf due to be rebuilt against python2.7 soon?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 671222 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager fails to start" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671222
<hakermania> xteejx: Hi
<xteejx> hakermania: Hi :)
<ScottK> xteejx: Commented in the bug.
<xteejx> ScottK: Thank you :)
<jetienne> paultag: kklimonda_: succeed !! thanks for your help
<hakermania> kklimonda_Is there something else I have to do except from changing the changelog to natty?
<xteejx> ScottK: Could it be that update-manger is trying to use python2.7 and that control needs 2.6 explicitly set?
<ScottK> xteejx: Something like that.  I'm sure mvo will sort it out.  He's pretty good about these things.
<xteejx> ScottK: Oh ok coolio :)
<xteejx> Its extremely unlikely that this will be one of those less-obvious bugs :)
<hakermania> kklimonda_: Is there something else I have to do except from changing the changelog to natty?
<kklimonda_> hakermania: no
<hakermania> This is mad :P Are whole projects rejected and asked to be re-uploaded because the changelog says maverick and not natty ? :P ?
<xteejx> They should be natty, we're in the natty dev cycle
<xteejx> Stupid question time....:
<xteejx> Why on the mom page are the packages coloured differently?
<xteejx> ???
<xteejx> http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/no_updated.html show a lot of updated upstream pkgs, is there anything we can do with that?
<xteejx> i.e. should we help debian if we can to update them, since it benefits us if we sync from it
<kklimonda_> xteejx: debian is in freeze so they don't really care that much about new versions
<kklimonda_> (at least until freeze is over)
<xteejx> kklimonda_: Does that mean we can update from upstream directly to Ubuntu?
<xteejx> or should we wait?
<xteejx> I haven't been in a cycle properly before, only bug triaging so not familiar with the way things work, i.e. debian freezes, our DIF, etc
<xteejx> Anyone at all??
<geser> depends if the package has a maintainer or QA maintained in Debian
<xteejx> geser: don't they all have maintainers?
<geser> orphaned ones don't have one (if you don't count the QA team as maintainer)
<xteejx> I see, so they are just left as they are for whatever reason someone leaves it
<geser> the Debian QA team is similar to MOTU
<geser> both touch packages only when needed
<xteejx> i.e. updated?
<geser> if someone has an interest to update the package
<xteejx> geser: Only reason I ask is that Debians freeze could last a while while they iron our RC bugs, what happens to our 11.04? :S
<xteejx> *iron out
<geser> for universe it will be mostly the same like maverick then
<xteejx> This why I wish I knew what everyone here does, my packages would be updated within a week of the debian/watch telling me there was a new upstream version :(
<geser> if you are interested in updating one package go for it (and talk to the Debian maintainer first)
<xteejx> Well I'll be honest I think my efforts would be better concentrated there, looks like they damn well need it lol
<geser> updating package is not usual as there are enough other tasks too (FTBFS, NBS, UNMETDEPS)
<xteejx> Hmm I suppose
<geser> and there are also those packages which aren't in Debian (yet) which could use an update too
<ScottK> xteejx: This week I've been knocking two to four a day off of http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ - That's work that needs doing.
<xteejx> ScottK: Same here, well nowehre near as many I'm too stupid (lol) but I've helped peck at the FTBFS bugs
<ScottK> xteejx: So that's good work to be doing.
<ScottK> xteejx: I've been doing this for years, so some stuff I can solve pretty quickly.  It will come in time.
<xteejx> ScottK: Well I do learn quick when things are explained relatively simply, geser does that quite well
<xteejx> Who needs a mentor ;)
<xteejx> It was just the 2700+ number that really shocked me
<ScottK> I think it's much better for people to be active in this channel and ask questions as you've been doing than to wait for a dedicated mentor.
<xteejx> I completely agree, you don't ever learn anything if you don't ask quetions
<xteejx> s/quetions/questions
<xteejx> As a sidenote, it was http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/alexandria.html I was looking at in particular
<xteejx> No pkg update for 4.5+ years :O
<ari-tczew> xteejx: I'm intersted in sponsoring your patches.
<xteejx> ari-tczew: What patches?
<ari-tczew> xteejx: e.g. ftbfs
<xteejx> Ohh, I haven't done any for 2-3 days so I don't have anything at the minute :)
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: Ping on bug 671941. It's in universe. You can upload it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 671941 in ctdb (Ubuntu) "Please merge ctdb 1.0.112-12-1 (main) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671941
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: thanks, I realized it was in main
<ari-tczew> :)
<ari-tczew> Ubuntu Developers does not use Launchpad
<ari-tczew> ;o
<ari-tczew> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-devel-discuss-lists
 * ari-tczew thought that we really work on Launchpad! (ironic)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: ubuntu-devel-discuss is on lists.ubuntu.com, not launchpad.net.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: so, do you think that this is not an issue?
<ScottK> I think it is not an issue.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I disagree with you. I think that ubuntu-devel-discuss-lists ~ubuntu-dev
<ari-tczew> ^^ should be merged into ~ubuntu-dev
<ari-tczew> (LP accounts)
<ScottK> I think it's meaningless.  Feel free to work on it if you think it's important.
<ari-tczew> then LP shows that packages touched in Ubuntu are maintained by non-existing account
<ari-tczew> it not looks good.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-07
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: yeah, should probably be fixed - it breaks the Maintainer link for many packages. I've thought about doing something about it too (without ever actually doing anything)
<ari-tczew> thanks tumbleweed for support
<ScottK> ari-tczew: You don't need support.  You just need to go get it fixed.  As in #launchpad.
<ScottK> As/Ask
<ari-tczew> ScottK: Asked.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you take a look on a patch related to python? patch requires python 2.6. should do I change it to 2.7?
<ari-tczew> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/ntfs-config/natty/annotate/head%3A/debian/patches/python24-remove.patch
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> ari-tczew: What problem is this solving?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: revision says: Don't explicitely depend on a versioned python interpreter.
<ari-tczew> no bug reported for this one
<ari-tczew> and added by doko
<ari-tczew> ScottK: during review PTS/BTS I found an information about change: debian/rules: add export PYTHON=/usr/bin/python
<ari-tczew> is it a workaround for above patch?
<ScottK> The change you linked me to is from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/ntfs-config/natty/revision/9
<ScottK> The don't explicitly depend on ... change doko did was rev 11.
<ScottK> So I'm a little confused what your question is.
<ScottK> Guessing, I think you'd want 2.6 and 2.7 in there, but that's a guess.  If you don't understand it, either test and experiment until you do or leave it for someone else.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I'm pretty sure that we can drop this patch. Debian has implemented some changes for it.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: Right, patch was added in revision 7 without explanation by Riddell, then twice updated.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I'd be sure.  People get grumpy if ntfs-config is broken.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: so I'm asking you for be sure: lookin' on Debian bug 589015 they have fixed it
<ubottu> Debian bug 589015 in src:ntfs-config "ntfs-config and python 2.6" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/589015
<ari-tczew> they have added "export PYTHON=/usr/bin/python" in debian/rules
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I'm busy with other stuff at the moment.  You need to consider that Debian has 2.5 and 2.6 and we will have 2.6 and 2.7 when you look at it.
<ScottK> That might do it.
<ScottK> I'm just not in a position to investigate
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I'll build debian package on natty. I'll test it. if it works, can we sync?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I don't know and don't have enough time to find out for sure, but that sounds reasonable.
<ari-tczew> ok
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: looks good for syncing to me (wonders why I'm still awake...)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: what is your timezone in UTC?
<tumbleweed> UTC+2
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: the same as mine! when do you wake up?
<tumbleweed> depends when I go to sleep :P
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ah! got it now
<ari-tczew> how can I use requestsync for universe as I'm MOTU?
<micahg> ari-tczew: should be no different than anyone else, if you use --lp, it won't subscribed -sponsors and should just marked confirmed
<ari-tczew> micahg: just not working as you wrote :/
<ari-tczew> it subscribing sponsors
<micahg> with --lp?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: With the email version it will ask you if you have upload rights for Universe.  Say yes.
<ScottK> micahg: pyxpcom is FTBFS and looks like it might benefit from someone who understand Mozilla stuff.  Would you please have a look at it.
<ari-tczew> micahg: alias reqsync='requestsync --lp -s -d unstable'
<micahg> ScottK: I think we're blacklisting it, but I"ll look into it, thanks
<ScottK> micahg: Not successfully.
<ScottK> ;-)
<micahg> oops, meant we'll be blacklisting it :)
<micahg> ari-tczew: -s forces sponsorship (i.e. subscribe sponsors)
 * ari-tczew is testing without -s...
<micahg> ari-tczew: also, -d unstable is default for non-LTS
<ari-tczew> micahg: natty is non-LTS right?
<maco> ari-tczew: right
<ari-tczew> so also can I remove it from alias?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Now that you have that figured out, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58061073/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.gdcm_2.0.16-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz could use some linking help if you're looking for something that needs doing.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: curiosity question: do you need this FTBFS fixed for something?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: No.  Just noticed it was of a relatively trackable class of FTBFS (linking failures) and thought you might be up for fixing it.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: That's right, but I'm guessing about move this operation to FeatureFreeze stage.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Linker failures are unlikely to go away on their own.
<ari-tczew> before FeatureFreeze get changes from Debian as more as possible
<ScottK> It's certainly up to you to decide what your work is.
 * micahg notes there's 3.5 months until FF
<ari-tczew> ScottK: tomorrow I can look
<ScottK> Great.
<ari-tczew> micahg: a lot or a little?
<ari-tczew> from your POV
<ari-tczew> ScottK, tumbleweed: ntfs-config from Debian works fine. I'm going to sync it.
<ari-tczew> do I need to give an explanation of sync if I'm MOTU?
<ari-tczew> (requestsync use)
<micahg> ari-tczew: a lot, and yes, you need to give an explanation for the archive-admins
 * micahg would think at least
<ari-tczew> I just saw fresh ScottK's sync bug and he gave explanation.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: That was an easy one because Debian did the exact same change we did.  For this one, it's a different fix, so needs a bit more explaination.
<ari-tczew> when I decided to remove package in universe, is enough to subscribe ubuntu-archive?
<micahg> ari-tczew: no, there should be an explanation for the AAs to include in the removal log
<ari-tczew> micahg: of course. I just mean whether any ACKs  are necessary.
<micahg> ari-tczew: no, if you have upload rights you can request removal
<ari-tczew> hmm, why people use ntfs-config with sudo? I don't understand bug 663318
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663318 in Linux Mint "ntfs-config not working" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663318
<micahg> ari-tczew: some people think you have to run a lot of things with sudo that you don't have to
<ari-tczew> micahg: how do you would triage this bug?
<micahg> ari-tczew: well, if it's never meant to be run with sudo, it should warn on that and exit (would be wishlist then), if it's normally supposed to be run as the user, but can be run as sudo, there are 2 issues here, 1.  should warn, 2. shouldn't fail when run with sudo
 * micahg doesn't know anything about ntfs-config though
<micahg> those are general triaging suggestions
<micahg> ari-tczew: my guess is there might be a duplicate as hal's been deprecated
<ari-tczew> micahg: hmm. I'm thinking about upload ntfs-config and please users to test package without sudo.
<micahg> ari-tczew: well, if you're not sure about the usage, I would suggest further research or getting in touch with the Debian maintainer
<micahg> ari-tczew: you could also try YokoZar who maintains the wine stack in Ubuntu
<ari-tczew> micahg: why wine? it's ntfs-config
<micahg> ari-tczew: possible indirect knowledge
<ScottK> Also HAL is removed from Gnome, but KDE still uses it.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: so I dunno how triage these bugs :/
<ari-tczew> ntfs-config works very well on my ubuntu
<ScottK> OK.  I'd discuss it with people in #ubuntu-bugs
<micahg> ari-tczew: debian 573348
<ubottu> Debian bug 573348 in ntfs-config "ntfs-config: Does not start" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/573348
<ari-tczew> micahg: I saw it. and I said, works fine for me,
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'd get it applied in Debian first.
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'd prepare a NMU, but if I'm not affected...
<micahg> ari-tczew: sure, but you can at least link the bugs and mark our bug triaged
<micahg> ari-tczew: there's already a possible patch in that bug
<ari-tczew> micahg: [02:36] <ari-tczew> micahg: I'd prepare a NMU, but if I'm not affected...
<micahg> ari-tczew: well, the answer is to probably move away from HAL
<micahg> ari-tczew: about you not being affected, I'm not sure, you could always upload a fix to a PPA for someone to test
<ari-tczew> micahg: sounds reasonable
<micahg> ari-tczew: if you're running GNOME, you might be HAL free as ScottK pointed out
<ari-tczew> micahg: so, users with KDE are affected?
<micahg> ari-tczew: no, they probably wouldn't be, since they'd have hal installed
<ScottK> Could be other destkop environments too.
<micahg> ari-tczew: do you have hal installed
<micahg> Xfce still has HAL as well until we get to 4.8
<micahg> ari-tczew: if you have the hal package installed, you wouldn'
<micahg> t get this error
<ari-tczew> micahg: I have installed
<ari-tczew> does anybody know what means comment on MoM "USA" ?
<ari-tczew> could someone add a comment on https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-manual.html ? instead add comment, page redirects me to universe.html
<shane4ubuntu> ok, I'm trying to repackage a python app, it builds fine, however when I try to upload it to a ppa, it says mixed uploads not allowed, so asked the dev says, remove all the .py (that is the source) I did that, and recompiled, and stills says it is mixed???
<shane4ubuntu> any ideas, thoughts or pointers would be appreciated.
<ScottK> shane4ubuntu: You should probably seek help in #ubuntu-packaging.
<shane4ubuntu> ScottK, ok, thanks!
<bdrung> micahg: you can code perl?
<xteejx> I have fixed bug 671222 - it's in main, how do I get the fix looked at?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 671222 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager fails to start" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671222
<xteejx> Do I subscribe ubuntu-sponsors ??
<geser> xteejx: yes
<xteejx> geser: ok thanks :)
<geser> xteejx: I assume mvo will look at it during the next week
<xteejx> cool
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I can't fix FTBFS on gdcm, which you pointed me to do it yesterday. Sorry.
 * ari-tczew is off to switch into XP,
<psusi> can anyone tell me why bzr is apparently not using stacked branches?  I branched from lp:ubuntu/parted, made one tiny change, and tried to push to lp:~psusi/ubuntu/natty/parted/my-fix and it seems to be uploading the entire repo history
<psusi> ohh... ok, it apparently just wanted a --stacked... I don't remember having to do that before to get a stacked push.. hrm...
<ebroder> psusi: I was taking a look at your lvm2 merge last night. You know that all of the undocumented patches come from Debian, not us, right?
<ebroder> I think it might be better to do a proper merge from Debian before trying to incorporate a new upstream. In particular, the Debian maintainer dropped one or two of the patches since the last time we merged
<psusi> he did?  hrm..
<ebroder> In any case, I don't think it's a good idea to drop patches from the Debian packaging just because they don't appear to do anything to you
<psusi> yea, I also need to talk to keybuck about open-readonly.patch too but I've not seen him on
<psusi> it seems I didn't quite merge it correctly because I get warnings about read only vs read write opens when running it
<psusi> but it still seems to work fine
<ebroder> I believe that patch is still relevant. It's needed because we add OPTIONS+="match" to the udev file
<ebroder> Err, +="watch"
<psusi> well, it's also because I couldn't get them to apply and without any documentation, could not figure out what they were supposed to and fix it
<psusi> so that was the best I could do
<psusi> which patch is this?
<ebroder> I'm not sure it's encoded in a quilt patch, but it's our only change to...debian/tree/dmsetup/lib/udev/rules.d/60-dont-remember-what-it-ends-with.rules :)
<psusi> ohh... I shouldn't have touched that then
<psusi> all I did was manually fix up patches or comment them out of the series file
<ebroder> with something as sensitive as lvm2, that...doesn't really seem like a good plan
<ebroder> Anyway, the merge from Debian appears to be more straightforward, although bzr generated a bunch of bogus conflicts when I tried it
<psusi> I'm really excited about this new lvm.. I tried upgrading to natty again last night then an lvconvert and a reboot and I'm back in maverick...
<kklimonda_> ScottK: I can fix gdcm later (as in "in few hours"), the fix should be pretty straightforward
<psusi> isn't there supposed to be a bzr branch somewhere that is an auto import from debian?
<ebroder> lp:debian/<source package>
<psusi> doesn't seem to exist...
<ebroder> uh, i branched it last night
<psusi> nevermind... typoed
<psusi> ahh and there is one for sid
<psusi> ohh, and they finally went to 2.02.72... only 2 revs behind
 * psusi beats the debian maintainer for not putting a single line of documentation in his patches
<ebroder> he's not actually at 2.02.72 - he just cherry-picked the change
<psusi> wait... so his idea of "import upstream version 2.02.72" is to cherry pick a single change, not update to the new upstream release?
<ebroder> look at the version numbers in the changelog
<ebroder> "New upstream version." is the typical phrasing for the latter
 * psusi facepalms
<SpamapS> hrm, I got a weird error when submitting a package for PPA build..
<SpamapS> dpkg-deb: building package `mongodb' in `../mongodb_1.2.2-1ubuntu1.1~ppa0_amd64.deb'.
<SpamapS> tar: ./usr/bin/mongo: file changed as we read it
<SpamapS> ./usr/bin/mongo is a symlink
<SpamapS> when building in my local schroot I don't get this problem
<SpamapS> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58762750/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.mongodb_1:1.2.2-1ubuntu1.1~ppa0_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<SpamapS> anybody ever see this issue? It doesn't quite make sense to me.. I'm wondering if it is parallel builds or something else weird.
<micahg> SpamapS: tar was updated in lucid...
<SpamapS> micahg: like, recently?
<micahg> SpamapS: no, 5 weeks ago
<micahg> Do we do SRUs for outdated descriptions?
<ScottK> kklimonda_: Excellent.
<ScottK> micahg: No.
<micahg> ScottK: k, thanks
<ha2fb> Alright guys I have a question regarding Download Accelerator Plus installation through WINE. If someone could help me it would be greatly appreciated!
<ScottK> ha2fb: Support is in #ubuntu.
<ha2fb> sorry Scott, thanks.
<ScottK> No problem.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-31
<LaserJock> anybody know what happened to mozilla-mplyer in Oneric? I can't seem to find it
<ajmitch> LaserJock: tried gecko-mediaplayer ?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: no
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to find a media player for Firefox
<LaserJock> totem doesn't seem to want to play files
<LaserJock> VLC crashes Firefox
<ajmitch> gecko-mediaplayer is supposedly the replacement for mozilla-mplayer, according to its description
<LaserJock> ok, I'll give that a try
<Rhonda> huhm.
<Rhonda> 197M hardy  284M lucid  281M maverick  340M natty  407M oneiric  411M precise
<Rhonda> Either my cowbuilder chroots are strange, or there was a fair amount of expansion in the base packages?
<lifeless> wow, yes
 * Rhonda goes with --login --safe-after-login and tries to check what could get removed. :)
 * Rhonda . o O ( --save-after-login works better )
<dupondje> lets check what we can sync today :D
<dupondje> Could somebody check if we still need http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=486899 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 486899 in cdebootstrap "cdebootstrap: Please set NO_PKG_MANGLE while building nested package" [Wishlist,Open]
<mok0> Hm, oneiric chat not working for me
<azeem_> oh hi mok0
<azeem_> long time no see
<mok0> azeem_: yeah, not so active these days
<azeem_> I finally uploaded qutemol to Debian, FYI
<azeem_> I still have you as Uploader, but I can remove that if you prefer
<mok0> azeem_: ah you did! Good for you!
<mok0> azeem_: I am not a dm
<azeem_> that's not necessary to be an Uploader
<azeem_> in theory, you can prepare packages, and a DD sponsors
<azeem_> (it's easier as DM, cause then you can upload directly)
<azeem_> just saying
<azeem_> also, I don't expect lots of activity on that packages :)
<azeem_> package*
<mok0> azeem_: I haven't looked at qutemol in quite a while... did you get a newer version?
<azeem_> no, they stopped developing it
<azeem_> maybe I updated to a couple later subversion revisions, don't remember
<mok0> azeem_: ... but that's not prohibitive for uploading it`
<mok0> ?
<azeem_> yeah
<azeem_> it's sorta complete :)
<azeem_> if it works, it's pretty awesome - if your X driver isn't supported - tough luck
<mok0> azeem_: those guys were computer scientists, not scientists :-)
<mok0> azeem_: well, the application could use some work
<azeem_> oh, I see there is an RC bug about the new -Werror=format-security
<azeem_> and yeah, the UI isn't super
<tumbleweed> dupondje: have you tried yourself? Youc na install pkgbinarymangler in your build environment (and you probably should, if you want to match the launchpad build environment)
<mok0> azeem_: I have been talking to picca about Coot
<azeem_> hui, that looks nice as well
<mok0> azeem_: it might be good to get that into Debian as well
<mok0> azeem_: but a number of dependencies need to go in first
<azeem_> ok
<azeem_> I'll add it to the Debichem todo when I get home
<mok0> azeem, great
<azeem_> mok0: I guess clipper, gpp4 and mmdb are crystollography packages as well, and should get maintained along coot
<mok0> azeem_: indeed
<mok0> I maintain all of them in Ubuntu
<mok0> azeem_: but Coot is still in my PPA only
<azeem_> ah, ok
<azeem_> mok0: why didn't upload coot to Ubuntu then?
<mok0> azeem_: There are a number of quirks in the package that need to be resolved...
<azeem_> ok
<cjwatson> dupondje: if it still builds a nested package, you still need that change
<mok0> azeem_: and second, I wasn't sure if anybody else were interested
<azeem_> is e.g. mmdb used by other packages as well?
<mok0> azeem_: coot users seem to want to compile it themselves
<mok0> azeem_: it's a dependency of gpp4
<mok0> azeem_: ... and clipper
<azeem_> ok, is any of those used by other packages?
<mok0> azeem_: no
<mok0> azeem_: I don't think so :-)
<mok0> azeem_: although some users might use them to link their own programs
<azeem_> yeah
<mok0> azeem_: ... if you don't want to download and install the 1Gb CCP4 distribution :-)
<azeem_> heh
<mok0> azeem_: which incidentally has it's own very peculiar idea of where to place programs and libraries
<dupondje> err stupid question, but how can I check it builds a nested package?
<Rhonda> What do you mean with nexted package? And what's "it"?
<Rhonda> nested*
<Laney> ghc up
 * Laney hands the rebuilds to iulian :-)
<Rhonda> ah, context is in lastlog.
<dupondje> Rhonda: cfr cdebootstrap :)
<Laney> or it would be if I knew how to type "-sa"
<Laney> *now* it is up
<Laney> cjwatson: ^ incase you want to score ppc up
<cjwatson> dupondje: grep for dpkg-deb I guess
<cjwatson> or peruse the build log
<cjwatson> Laney: done
<Amaranth> ep
<Amaranth> err
<Laney> ta
<jtaylor> hyperair: please duplicate into the bug with the most info ._.
<jtaylor> I wonder if something will be done about the broken gtk2 filechoser
<jtaylor> its really annoying and not so easy to run of .7 from debian due to multiarch
<jtaylor> ups wrong channel for that
<zooko> Hello folks! If there is anyone here who loves Tahoe-LAFS and Ubuntu, you might want to update this wiki page to reflect the new arrival of Oneiric: https://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/wiki/OSPackages
<Laney> why us?
<zooko> Laney: if you do not love Tahoe-LAFS and Ubuntu, then I didn't mean you. ;-)
<Laney> :P
<jtaylor> gna does the login for uds work for anyone?
<jtaylor> I only get an unencrypted login, and I'm not going to use that, the regular one does not stick
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: login to what?
<jtaylor> meeting details
<tumbleweed> you mean etherpad?
<jtaylor> yes
<tumbleweed> it's an https iframe inside an http page
<tumbleweed> hit the "open pad in a separate window" link to break out the iframe
<jtaylor> can't find that link
<jtaylor> but I copied it from the source
<jtaylor> still won't let me login ._.
<jtaylor> though I'm logged in in the outer frame ..
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's different, that's summit, this is pad
<broder> you have to login separately because it's asking for permission to access some of your group memberships
<tumbleweed> have a link: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-p-plenary-dpl
<tumbleweed> (not that you should edit that)
<jtaylor> "Your page was stale."
<tumbleweed> worksforme :/
<jtaylor> ok now it worked in firefox, it didn't before
<jtaylor> opera still gives me trouble :/
<tumbleweed> non-free browsers, tsk tsk :)
<jtaylor> I#d use a free one if they wouldn't suck so much ._.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-01
<hyperair> jtaylor: hmm which bug?
<jtaylor> 851383
<hyperair> bug 851383
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 878933 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #851383 Crash when attempting to open a second file from the recent file list" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878933
<hyperair> hmm wasn't that the bug with the most info?
<hyperair> it has sufficient info, doesn't it?
<hyperair> an upstream link
<jtaylor> another had the commit ids fixing it
<hyperair> and the upstream link has a patch
<hyperair> oh woops
<jtaylor> the upstream link is insufficient
<jtaylor> the patch there was already applied
<jtaylor> but its not enough
<hyperair> oh crap
<hyperair> which bug should be the master, then?
<jtaylor> I pasted the important info
<jtaylor> also -desktop knows about it so doesn't matter so much anymore
<hyperair> okay
<jtaylor> its an ugly situation
<hyperair> =\
<hyperair> you could have just changed the master bug
<hyperair> these days if you change one duplicate, the rest follow.
<jtaylor> the debdiff between .5 and .6 are ~1500 lines in a single file, .6 and .7 another ~1000 lines
<jtaylor> and in there somewhere are important bug fixes fore breakage in .6 ^^
<jtaylor> nice
<hyperair> oh yay
<jtaylor> 851383 should probably be master
<jtaylor> it would be nice when the affect number would include all duplicates
<jtaylor> last time I talked to -desktop they didn't want to fix it because it had to few bugs/affects (~beta 2 I think)
<paultag> Do I have to requestsync during DIF?
<paultag> erm, debian-import, where we are now
<ajmitch> not if it's unmodified in ubuntu, and the version that you want is in testing
<paultag> ajmitch: Ah, right, because this is a LTS. Forgot about testing.
<paultag> Thanks, just wondering why it was on such a lag :)
<tumbleweed> we are still before DIF
<paultag> tumbleweed: I corrected myself directly after :)
<tumbleweed> of course if something should be rushed from unstable, file a request
<paultag> tumbleweed: nope, no rush
<paultag> just wondering :)
<tumbleweed> I went to the wiki so I could throw a link at you, but it looks like someone broke the wiki
<paultag> tumbleweed: it's no worries at all, I was just doing my rounds and got to wondering
<paultag> alright, I'm off. Thanks, ajmitch / tumbleweed
<highvoltage> paultag: why aren't you uds'ing this year?
<paultag> highvoltage: nope :)
<paultag> Oh, why
<paultag> highvoltage: because I'm leaving, and UDS is a waste of my time, as well as spaceman's :)
<tumbleweed> you're leaving?
<paultag> tumbleweed: long time coming, my friend. Yeah, I've been dropping roles, and I'm dowm to my last one now
<paultag> tumbleweed: I'm coming up here to Debian
<paultag> but I'm done with my Ubuntu work, sadly, that part of my life is slowly coming to a close
<tumbleweed> right, just moving around a bit then :)
<paultag> erm, wow, thought this was the other channel
<paultag> this is ubuntu-motu, shoot.
<paultag> tumbleweed: yeah, I'll still be contributing, but indirectly :)
<azeem> hrm, the Ubuntu diff for xmakemol looks weird
<azeem> it talks about lesstif not being in main, but the package is in universe anyway
<jtaylor> but are the gl libraries built against it?
<jtaylor> but yes it does look weird
<azeem> now I remember some issues in/with Ubuntu and libglw1-mesa
<azeem> actually, I might just drop the GL version
<azeem> people who want to look at something pretty won't use xmakemol
<azeem> jtaylor: i guess it was because mesa did not build against lesstif2-dev cause the former is main and the latter universe
<azeem> but now libglw1-mesa is built from mesa-glw, which is universe
<asomething> anyone know if there is a general developer community/MOTU check-in or anything at UDS this time around? I'm not really seeing it on the schedule...
 * ajmitch saw a MOTU session on the schedule
<ajmitch> I just have to find it again
<ajmitch> friday at 11, it's in the 'other' track
<asomething> ajmitch, Thanks!
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-02
<RedFace> hey people
<mok0_> Now why does bzr builddeb and debuild not do the same thing?
<hyperair> what's the conventional way of numbering SRU bugfixes?
<hyperair> for previously synced packages i mean
<hyperair> this is regarding nautilus-image-manipulator. it's 0.3-1 in oneiric, 0.4-1 in debian, and i'd like to more or less backport 0.4-1 (with some changes) into oneiric-proposed
<hyperair> 0.4-1 will be synced to precise first though.
<hyperair> would it be 0.4-0ubuntu0.1?
<hyperair> or just 0.4-0ubuntu1?
<hyperair> hmm okay, -0ubuntu0.1 looks right
<Rhonda> hyperair: the wikipage about SRU has the numbering schema in it
<hyperair> hmm
<Rhonda> Wouldn't 0.4-1~oneiric1 be the one to go with?
<hyperair> Rhonda: i don't see it.
<Rhonda> And, somehow I doubt that a new upstream version would get approved for SRU
<hyperair> Rhonda: not quite, it's not a direct backport.
<hyperair> Rhonda: there will be a delta.
<Rhonda> so?
<hyperair> hm okay
<broder> new upstream versions can be accepted for SRUs if it makes sense
<Rhonda> It's still a backport of 0.4-1, no matter whether there are changes or not
<broder> (i.e. upstream pushed a new release with just your fix)
<hyperair> nautilus-image-manipulator is completely defunct in oneiric.
<Laney> just use something that is in between, don't think the exact schema matters
<Laney> -1~ubuntu0.1
<hyperair> that works too.
<broder> ah yeah, totally defunct in the previous release is also a good justification for doing otherwise unacceptable things
<broder> btw, the sru wiki page links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging for version numbering advice
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> thanks
<broder> hyperair: at the end of the day, a lot of version number discussion is just bikeshedding. the thing that matters most is that a package's version numbers are well-ordered between releases
 * hyperair nods
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> i haven't made an SRU update in a while, so i just wanted to make sure i didn't screw anythign up.
<Rhonda> hmmm, who was my sysadmin contact again for sulfur â¦
<stlsaint> hey folks had a question here
<stlsaint> i just created a 11.10 vm, grabbed a bzr branch from lp and ran bzr builddeb on it
<stlsaint> build went fine minus the debsign
<stlsaint> i then tried that exact same process on my host which ive been doing all packaging on and bzr builddeb command is search for a source upstream tar?
<stlsaint> why now and not on the vm?
<ersi> stlsaint: What are you running on the host? I bet that'd be a good question to ask :)
<stlsaint> ersi: host is lucid
<ersi> changed anything recently on the host? like packages, configurations?
<ersi> I mean, if it worked previously
<stlsaint> ersi: no, thru troubleshooting i believe that the error is due to issues with my host versions of packages
<stlsaint> builddeb/pristine-tar possibly
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-03
<broder> tumbleweed: i got back to my room and gave up on udd. when i rewrote the backport security/sru checker script in launchpadlib, it took me about 30 minutes and runs in 11 :)
<broder> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/727221/
<tumbleweed> broder: :)
<kees> broder: source or it didn't happen! ;)
<broder> kees: http://paste.ubuntu.com/727242/
<broder> i'm working on reformatting it to feed the output into harvest
<broder> Laney: do you know why DEP-8 doesn't add any fields to the .dsc file?
<Laney> dude
<Laney> I had never even looked at that page before this session
<tumbleweed> angelabad: congrats :P
<angelabad> tumbleweed, thanks! finally... :-D
<jdstrand> broder: re backport security/sru checker> oh! excellent, can you ping me when you start using it regularly?
 * jdstrand hugs broder :)
<tumbleweed> jdstrand: he made that my problem... next on my todo list
<micahg> heh
 * jdstrand hugs tumbleweed instead of broder 
<jdstrand> broder: ;)
<jdstrand> tumbleweed: thanks!
<ajmitch> lucky you
<jdstrand> tumbleweed: so, would you mind pinging me when the backporters start using it regularly?
<tumbleweed> jdstrand: I won't know that, but I can tell you when it's up
<jdstrand> tumbleweed: that would be great. thanks again
<broder> jdstrand: did you see the preliminary output? it doesn't look like there are very many things that need to be re-backported
<broder> (i've cleaned up some of the false positives since that edition of the code, but i don't think i've found any false negatives)
<broder> and of the packages listed, quassel and clamav have already been handled, so that just leaves libvirt (jaunty->hardy), pidgin (intrepid->hardy), and tomcat6 (intrepid->hardy)
<broder> and i think all of those will require some policy discussion from backports
<micahg> broder: any desktop backports for hardy can be ignored
<broder> ok, so we don't need to worry about pidgin, but we do need an answer for tomcat and libvirt
<broder> given that they were backported from releases which are now desupported, i don't know what the right answer is. as a straw man, i propose reviving the security/SRU packages from the desupported releases as being no worse than what's in backports currently
<micahg> right, you could also try to backport fixes from lucid if appropriate (or apply ones from hardy as appropriate)
<broder> i'm concerned that creates more friction than is necessary
<broder> i should probably check my backport-helper script and see if it will even agree to backport from a dead release...
<micahg> well, if want the backport properly patched, it would be necessary, if you want the path of least resistance, then you could just take what was done before
<broder> backports doesn't provide security support. we shouldn't get into the business of backporting security updates that aren't directly derived from the package that was originally backported
<broder> tracking security/SRUs is already stretching that a good degree from what we've done traditionally
<broder> valid_series = set(s.name for s in lp.distributions['ubuntu'].series if s.active)> bah. too clever for my own good
<micahg> right, it depends how much effort you want to put into it :)
<micahg> I'd suggest showing them (maybe aggregated at the bottom), but flagging that they need extra patches from elsewhere (possibly surrounding supported releases)
<micahg> *might need
<broder> i'll leave them in the report. i'm planning to just spit out a machine-readable report and slurp that into harvest, and we can hide the ones we don't care about solving there
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-04
<micahg> Laney: tumbleweed: highvoltage: only solution I see to resolve the conflict for ARB members at the MOTU BoF that is doable is to move the MOTU session to 4:15PM, 12PM also seems to work, but that's when the 64 bit session is
<ajmitch> micahg: what did you need?
<micahg> ajmitch: ah, was going to ask you about moving the ARB session, but that won't work due to stgraber's commitments, so our only option to allow the ARB MOTUs to be at the MOTU BoF is to move the MOTU session
<ajmitch> so you're going for least-worst time that might suit people?
<micahg> I guess so
<ajmitch> 4:15 is ipv6 health check, which stgraber will be rather involved in
<micahg> ajmitch: right, he's only interested in the ARB session though
<ajmitch> ok
<micahg> or at least scheduled as such :)
<ajmitch> it's hardly guaranteed that I'll still be awake & coherent at any of the listed times, so just schedule around who'll actually be there :)
<micahg> ajmitch: thanks
 * micahg wanders off to catch a few hours of sleep
<ajmitch> lucky for some, neighbours just put some music on... :)
 * micahg has to be up in a few hours
 * ajmitch was going to try & be up for all the sessions as well
<micahg> :(, well good luck
<ajmitch> we'll see, good night
<micahg> night
<Tm_T> tavasti: welcome (;
<tavasti> Thanks!
<tavasti> so, to real things, what we started: bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zabbix/+bug/761730
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 761730 in zabbix (Ubuntu) "zabbix-server-pgsql should depend on php5-pgsql" [Undecided,New]
<tavasti> sure, thats trivial to fix. If I fix it, how I can get my fix to ubuntu?
<Tm_T> tavasti: while waiting others to answer, I suppose this could help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<tavasti> and when looking at zabbix bugs, most likely zabbix-server-mysql has similar dependency problem
<tavasti> Tm_T, ok, thats good starting point
<ajmitch> micahg: did you find a suitable time for the MOTU BOF?
<micahg> well, haven't heard from the others yet
<tumbleweed> micahg: sorry, I was sleeping
<micahg> tumbleweed: understandable at the hour I pinged you :)
<tumbleweed> well, I got back to my room and decided I didn't want to open my laptop
<nigelb> tumbleweed: what!
<nigelb> :)
<tumbleweed> nigelb: it *was* 2:30 in the morning, and the laptop was shut down (it had run flat)
<nigelb> tumbleweed: pffft excuses :P
<micahg> tumbleweed: wise decision, opening the laptop kept me up for another hour when I got back :-/
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: almost 2:30 in the morning here, how I love how timezones line up...
<tumbleweed> :)
<tumbleweed> US UDSs work well for european/african timezones, you can get work done in the morning and listen to UDS in the afternoon
<nigelb> tumbleweed: This one works well for eme. Starts right at EOD from work.
<ajmitch> but or NZ, it means starting at 2AM & still listening to sessions when at work in the morning
<nigelb> Except it goes into 1:30 in the morning
<ajmitch> s/or/for/
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: sounds lovely :)
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: oh it is, I was playing civ iv for a few hours while waiting ;)
<Quintasan> ajmitch: Civ IV++
<micahg> tumbleweed: so, what do you think about moving the MOTU session to later
<ajmitch> micahg: when do you think you can fit it in?
<tumbleweed> micahg: none of the options are ideal :/
<micahg> tumbleweed: yeah, I know :(
<tumbleweed> 1500 is ideal for me, although I'd be triple-booked. Dunno about other people
<tumbleweed> I think the 64bit discussion would be too popular
<tumbleweed> and I want to get to new package workflow
<ajmitch> MOTU probably has a bit of overlap with the developer advisory team discussion at 1500
<micahg> right, that's why I was thinking 16:15
<tumbleweed> 1600 kinda works
 * ajmitch can listen to 2 streams at once then :)
<broder> 1600...UTC or EDT?
<micahg> EDT
<tumbleweed> broder: summit time
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: that's what recordings are for :)
<tumbleweed> also, yeah I move around between sessions a lot more when participating remotely
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: that's what having 2 computers is for
<tumbleweed> hah
<broder> i can live with 16:15. i guess i'm the only one who didn't get a conflict with the original block? :-/
<tumbleweed> broder: app review board has a reasonable overlap
 * micahg was hoping a mentoring MOTU could be in the developer advisory team meeting
<micahg> broder: no, we don't have a conflict either, it's for the ARB people
<ajmitch> those dastardly ARB folk, messing everything up
<ajmitch> so was it decided to move the MOTU session?
<tumbleweed> no
<ajmitch> ah well
<c_korn> hum, a postinst script is normally run with set -e. now I want to run a command where it is completely safe that it exists with 0 and 1. (but no values other than that because 2 is a real error while 1 is only a warning). but when it exists with 1 postinst fails. I basically do a "run x; ret=$? ; if [ $ret != 0 -a $ret != 1 ] ;" â¦
<broder> c_korn: i would write that with "run x || [ $? = 1 ]"
<broder> the shell will evaluate that as a single expression, and the whole expression has to be non-0 to trigger set -e
<broder> so if "run x" returns 0, the shell stops and we're good.
<broder> if it returns 1, the shell looks at the second half of the expression and evaluates that to determine if the whole expression returns "true" (i.e. 0) or "false" (i.e. 1)
<c_korn> oh, this is brilliant broder
<broder> it's just one of those idioms you pick up over time :)
<c_korn> so the if statement results into this? "if [ run x -o $? = 1 ] ;"
<broder> no, that's incorrect for several reasons
<broder> first, "[ run -x -o $? = 1 ]" won't cause "run -x" to be executed
<broder> you should think of "[" as if it were an actual program
<broder> it used to be
<broder> it just has a funny name
<c_korn> or a special variable: ret=run x || [ $? = 1 ]
<broder> you don't need an if statement or anything
<broder> just do "run x || [ $? = 1 ]"
<broder> with set -e, it'll either exit, or you keep going
<c_korn> the thing is, in case the return value of "run x" is neither 0 nor 1 I want to bring a warning and to some clean ups
<c_korn> hum, is this why there is "ls /usr/bin/\[" ? ;)
<broder> yeah
<broder> maybe you should go into some more detail about what your postinst is doing. my instinctive response is that if you need to do explicit cleanup, your postinst may be too complicated
<c_korn> ok, here it is: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=uucGVP3p
<c_korn> or with line numbering http://pastebin.com/uucGVP3p it is line 42 (yay)
<jcfp> c_korn: you just want the script to continue past line 42 with the result of unzip in $ret?
<c_korn> hm, yeah. but what I basically want is that unzip is allowed to access with both 0 and 1 but nothing else
<jcfp> c_korn: unzip ... && ret=$? || ret=$?
<jcfp> or ret=0; unzip ... || ret=$?
<jcfp> sets ret but doesn't exit asap
<c_korn> uff, the first one definitely required some thinking ;)
<c_korn> s/required/requires/
<c_korn> an assignment like ret=$? always returns 0 I assume. or does it return the value of $? ?
<broder> it returns 0
<jcfp> yup, that always succeeds so it continues with ret set to whatever unzip came up with
<c_korn> ok, this worked fine, thanks broder and jcfp
<Guest53363> Hello
<Guest53363> I have a quick question, what do I do after I have read the Packaging Guide and the Getting Started Guide?
<jtaylor> package something?
<jtaylor> or adopt an orphaned package
<jtaylor> or fix bugs
<jtaylor> debian policy is also always a good read
<Guest53363> How do I find a list of aphoned packages?
<jtaylor> http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/
<broder> Guest53363: we also have a project to keep track of bugs that we think would be easy to work on and good starter projects: http://harvest.ubuntu.com/opportunities/?pkg=&opplist=bitesize
<Guest53363> Ok
<broder> Guest53363: but right now UDS (aka our big planning shindig) is just wrapping up, and the closing party starts in an hour, so things may be a bit dead around here this evening
<Guest53363> Ah ok :)
<benonsoftware> Hi all
<tumbleweed> benonsoftware: hi. as broder said just before you appeared. UDS (the 6-monthly developer summit) is just starting its closing party, so everyone who is normally helpful here is away from their laptops
 * tumbleweed heads to the party
<benonsoftware> :) Ok thanks for letting me know
<tumbleweed> of course, not everyone is at UDS, though
<benonsoftware> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-05
<verwilst> anyone here with 3 mins time MAX that wants to fix a bug that has been open for almost 2 years?
<jtaylor> which bug?
<verwilst> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot-antispam/+bug/494162
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494162 in dovecot-antispam (Ubuntu) "Incompatible filter on amd64 (lucid)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<verwilst> all it takes is a simple recompile of this tiny package to solve it
<verwilst> it probably took longer to confirm this bugreport 2 years ago then to just recompile it ;)
<jtaylor> the few motu members can't check up on every package, to get some attention its best to follow  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<jtaylor> or show up here and request help
<jtaylor> verwilst: can you provide step by step instructions to reproduce it?
<verwilst> jtaylor, fair enough
<verwilst> jtaylor, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot-antispam/+bug/494162/comments/14
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494162 in dovecot-antispam (Ubuntu) "Incompatible filter on amd64 (lucid)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<verwilst> jtaylor, hm you might want to ready comment 15 as well :)
<verwilst> read*
<verwilst> jtaylor, awesome man, thanks :)
<jtaylor> I assume maverick and natty need fixing too?
<jtaylor> the testcase does not work there ._.
<genjix> hey, i've packaged 2 libraries
<genjix> how do i get them into universe?
<broder> genjix: we try to get all of our new packages through debian. have you considered going through them? http://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers is probably a good place to start if you're interested in that
<genjix> ok
<broder> (we can still help you with that, and we can help you get your packages into ubuntu once debian has accepted them, but our processes are optimized for that)
<genjix> sure.
<genjix> ok my package is for a library which isn't mature yet and is using git committish numbers
<genjix> should i wait until formal number releases, or is going for debian package good now?
<genjix> atm they're in my ppa
<broder> what sort of library is this? a c library?
<genjix> c++ library
<genjix> actually 2 of them
<broder> ok. in that case i would personally be looking for some amount of API and ABI stability, because API/ABI breaks have to be dealt with in packaging, and i wouldn't want to start a package's lifecycle with a bunch of those
<genjix> right ok.
<broder> have you read http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html ? if you haven't, it would likely be a good read in terms of understanding what we expect from shared libraries at the packaging level
<genjix> aha great. thanks for the link
<genjix> useful
<broder> genjix: hmm...i don't know that policy explicitly discusses what a soname is or when you need to change it. http://www.gnu.org/s/libtool/manual/html_node/Updating-version-info.html might help fill in the gaps. the version part of the soname comes from the "current" field
<genjix> so i guess i'll just stick it in the ppa for now until there is a stable abi
<stlsaint> were there previeous discussions about being able to get individual package upload rights?
<Laney> you can already do that
<stlsaint> Laney: is there documentation on that particular process?
<broder> !ppu
<broder> maybe?
<broder> oh well
<Laney> stlsaint: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#PerPackage
<stlsaint> per package upload? (just googled ppu)
<Laney> yes
<Laney> !ppu is Per-Package Uploader. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#PerPackage for more information and application process.
<Pici> !ppu
<ubottu> ppu is Per-Package Uploader. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#PerPackage for more information and application process.
<Laney> ta
<broder> hmm...while we're messing with irc stuff, the /topic could use updating
<Laney> why is it +t and who can make it not so?
 * Laney gazes at Pici 
<Pici> Hrm. I don't actually have access here.
<Pici> I'll find someone who does...
<Laney> cheers
<stlsaint> Laney: so the pacakage must be sponsored by MOTU then we are able to aid in upload/management with that motu as ppu applicants
<Laney> stlsaint: ppu don't need sponsoring, but before you get that you do
<stlsaint> Laney: need sponsoring for the package?
<Laney> right
 * Laney has to go now, ttyl
<broder> safe travels, Laney
<Legs> gday
<genjix> hey
<jcfp> anybody know who to contact or where to file bugs about the ubuntu popcon website?
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-06
<tumbleweed> genjix: I'm keeping a library like that (C++, no formal releases or stable ABI committments) in Debian experimental for now.
 * siretart has such a library in stable :-)
<siretart> granted, I don't build the shared object at all and ship a static library only.
<tumbleweed> I'll get it out of experimental if/when anyone wants to link to it in another package...
<siretart> tumbleweed: why not shipping headers and .a file only?
<tumbleweed> siretart: I am, but that's not what I want to do long-term, and there are no reverse-build-deps yet
<siretart> tumbleweed: same aplies to aspectc++ (the library is libpuma-dev, a C/C++ parser and manipulation engine)
<genjix> tumbleweed: aha great
<genjix> how does it work? would i need a debian system?
<tumbleweed> genjix: conceptually, rather similar to a PPA. one big ppa shared by all debian developers
<genjix> ok nicw
<genjix> nice
<jcfp> tumbleweed: got your memo. Problem with popcon.u.c is that it hasn't updated its data for about a month
<genjix> it seems there is a problem with launchpad?
<genjix> when i upload a new package i keep getting:
<genjix> Uploading libbitcoin_0~git20111105-1_source.changes: 2k/3k550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied.
<genjix> but then an email arrives saying it's been accepted.
<genjix> ohh nvm. it was rejected for being older
<genjix> libbitcoin_0~git20111105-1.dsc: Version older than that in the archive. 0~git20111105-1 <= 0~gitfaf47bg-1
<genjix> damn
<tumbleweed> jcfp: :/
<tumbleweed> genjix: git commit hashes don't increase :)
<tumbleweed> well, they aren't guaranteed to
<genjix> yeah, but someone told me yesterday i shouldn't be using hashes
<genjix> so i switched above to a date
<genjix> i deleted the package and now it won't let me upload this new version.
<tumbleweed> deleting packages won't allow you to use lower version numbers
<tumbleweed> launchpad remembers everything
<genjix> what can i do then?
<genjix> delete me PPA and recreate it?
<tumbleweed> no, launchpad remembers evenrything
<m4n1sh> tumbleweed: can you look at my gedit merge proposal?
<m4n1sh> or it can taken care only for -desktop team member?
<tumbleweed> genjix: how about 0~git+20111105-1 ?
<genjix> ok
<highvoltage> weird, I get some blog when I visit http://pool.sks-keyservers.net/
<broder> lintian site generation has made it to q! :)
<thais> hiiii!
<thais> :)
<l3on> Hi all
<l3on> Someone could help me with sharedobject-in-library-directory-missing-soname ?
<jtaylor> http://lintian.debian.org/tags/sharedobject-in-library-directory-missing-soname.html
<l3on> I know it, I would like know how to fix it :)
<l3on> consider that my rules is "$@"
<jtaylor> its something the upstream software must do
<l3on> mmm... upstream is not so open at speech
<jtaylor> have you read this: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html
<jtaylor> library packaging needs much care
<l3on> ok, I'm going to read it...
<blair> i'm trying to get python-rbtools updated to the latest release for 12.04 since i'd like to move our company over from fedora to ubuntu and we're using a newer rbtools
<blair> i've opened a ticket, made a branch with the fix
<blair> added the sponsor list to the ticket
<blair> is there anything else i need to do?
<geser> blair: just wait, many devs are on their way back home from UDS so it might take a few days till someone can review/sponsor it
<blair> geser, thanks.  is there a process to get commit rights after a while?
<geser> blair: yes, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Per-package_Uploaders
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: not all keyservers run on port 80
<tumbleweed> 11371 is the port you want
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-29
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I think it's time for a UDT upload
<Laney> ya
 * tumbleweed just does it
<jtaylor> what time is it in copenhagen?
<micahg> jtaylor: UTC+1
<jtaylor> thx
<jtaylor> my stupid netbook hasnT realized that its winter time yet ._.
<micahg> jtaylor: it's not in the US
<jtaylor> anyone know how I can force a resync of the time?
<micahg> jtaylor: for where?
<jtaylor> probably a login proxy confused it
<micahg> jtaylor: when I switched my laptop to copenhagen time it DTRT
<tumbleweed> bdrung: got a debian release exception for distro-info-data
<jtaylor> concerning the backports b-d on backports
<jtaylor> does that only affect dependencies which are not in the normal series
<jtaylor> (the bug that makes that not work)
<jtaylor> e.g. I want to backport ipython, it needs simplegeneric from quantal, but its not essential
<jtaylor> if I backport simplegeneric to precise, will that block me from backporting ipython?
<jtaylor> hm the dependency is not versioned so it should work
<bkerensa> micahg: is https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa coming back still?
<micahg> bkerensa: yes, had a chat with someone this evening about it
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-30
<bkerensa> micahg: So are we cherry picking changes from debian for the chromium-browser main branch? If not does someone know the workflow
<micahg> bkerensa: no, we'll start by getting the stable channel up to date and then work backwards
<bkerensa> micahg: ok :) do you think we might be fresher in 13.04?
<micahg> bkerensa: hopefully :), current stable should get an update as well, unfortunately, I don't have a timeframe yet
<micahg> (as it won't be me doing the work for this)
<mohamedalaa98> hello
<mohamedalaa98> I want to push a fix to quantal-proposed
<mohamedalaa98> https://code.launchpad.net/~m-alaa8/ubuntu/quantal/im-switch/fix-for-621204/+merge/128037
<mohamedalaa98> how can I do that?
<mohamedalaa98> can you please tell me how I can push a fix to quantal-proposed?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I don't get the logic behind https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/revision/1182
<bdrung> tumbleweed: that was probably not the correct solution for fixing an issue with syncing to -proposed
<tumbleweed> ok, probably reverting those bits, then
<bdrung> yes
<Laney>                    source                   |         version          |     release
<Laney> --------------------------------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
<Laney>  xml-core                                   | 0.13+nmu2                | raring-proposed
<ajmitch> Laney: looks like an autosync?
<ajmitch> depwait on newer debhelper
<micahg> there was an autosync
<mohamedalaa98> Hello :)
<mohamedalaa98> can you please help me in this propose https://code.launchpad.net/~m-alaa8/ubuntu/quantal/im-switch/fix-for-621204/+merge/128037
<mohamedalaa98> how I can submit bugfix to quantal-proposed?
<mohamedalaa98> thanks in advance
<micahg> mohamedalaa98: it was suggested that it shouldn't go to quantal-proposed, but rather raring
<mohamedalaa98> so I have to reupload this branch to raring?
<micahg> mohamedalaa98: yeah
<mohamedalaa98> micahg: ok thank you very much :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: thanks. I found a good test case, transcode
<mitya57> Laney: hi, do you know why there was no "accepted to -proposed" comment in bug 1068208?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1068208 in lintian (Ubuntu Quantal) "Needs to know about raring" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1068208
<mitya57> and should we add a verification-done tag?
<tumbleweed> mitya57: I guess someone used the wrong tool
<Laney> ajmitch: I was just demoing
<micahg> mitya57: wasn't accepted yet
<mitya57> micahg: and what is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lintian/2.5.10.2ubuntu2.1?
<micahg> mitya57: nevermind, E_NOTENOUGHCAFFEINE
<mitya57> :)
<mitya57> the fix is trivial, so I think I can add a tag myself
<Laney> if you verified it
<Laney> i'm sure someone else here could do that
<mitya57> By the way â what's now the preferred thing to put into changelogs â raring or raring-proposed?
<tumbleweed> I'd say raring
<Laney> yes
<mitya57> OK. And I've verified it, yes.
<mitya57> Hm, the reports vs reqorts issue is still not fixed...
<Laney> ScottK: done
<Laney> (opendkim)
<ScottK> Laney: Thanks.
 * micahg is wondering why the sync he did didn't show up on raring-changes
<micahg> it syncd and shows up for the person I sponsored, just didn't seem to hit raring-changes
 * Logan_ waves to micahg 
<micahg> hi Logan_
<Logan_> micahg: question - when will merge requests start being considered for Raring?
<micahg> Logan_: now
<Logan_> oh, awesome :)
<Logan_> I have a good number ;P
<Laney> micahg_mobile: coming down now! sorry!
<highvoltage> laney / tumbleweed: plans yet?
<highvoltage> and where sre you?
<highvoltage> ah coolbhavi says you left already
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> I saw a package without a maintainer (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kaa-metadata)
<alo21> why?
<maxb> nothing odd there
<maxb> ask a clearer question
<alo21> maxb: I sent an email in ML.
<maxb> alo21: Why do you think it's maintainerless?
<alo21> maxb: because I am new... but now I realized that here is the team (http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=pkg-freevo-maint@lists.alioth.debian.org)
<maxb> It has received an update in Debian this year. Granted, that's months ago now, but I don't know how active this project is
<alo21> maxb: As I wrote, I fixed a bug... how can I contact them to submit the fix?
<alo21> maxb: seems that this bug affects Ubuntu only
<maxb> As the package is currently imported into Ubuntu unmodified from Debian, the first step should be to .... ah
<maxb> OK, in that case, it will depend on whether the bug is something that needs to be fixed only in Ubuntu, or is something that could be sent to the upstream project or to Debian, but only matters for Ubuntu
<alo21> maxb: in this case I have to modify the packahe in Ubuntu only and send it for 13.04. Right?
<alo21> package*
<maxb> Well, it depends. Possibly. But if the potential exists to forward the change to Debian and not carry a different in Ubuntu forevermore, Ubuntu developers would prefer you looked into that
<alo21> maxb: so I should contact kaa-metadata debian maintainers and talk with them. right?
<maxb> alo21: Very probably. But you haven't said what the bug is, so I can't attempt to suggest whether it's truly Ubuntu-specific or not
<alo21> maxb: this one is the bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kaa-metadata/+bug/553827) and here is (http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=pkg-freevo-maint@lists.alioth.debian.org) the package overview
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553827 in kaa-metadata (Ubuntu) "Subdowloader: LookupError: unknown encoding: utf_8_valencia" [Undecided,In progress]
<maxb> That doesn't sound Ubuntu-specific at all, rather a general failure in guessing encodings from locale names, so it's definitely something best pursued with the upstream kaa-metadata project and Debian first
<alo21> maxb: thanks a lot... how did you check that this bug in not ubuntu only?
<maxb> I didn't, I just made an educated guess that it is highly unlikely that locale and character set processing in Python are sufficiently different in Ubuntu compared with Debian or other Linuxes
<alo21> maxb: right
<alo21> thanks again
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-31
<warp10> Anybody knows why lintian (on quantal) complains about this: "E: spotlighter changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file unstable"?
<tumbleweed> that would be incorrect for Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> try --profile debian
<warp10> tumbleweed: indeed, but lintian always liked it so far (I already worked on packages for debian on older releases).
<tumbleweed> well, profiles only appeared a year or two ago
<jtaylor> its new in quantal
<jtaylor> at least I only see it since a couple of weeks
<tumbleweed> my perspection of time is clearly skewed :)
<warp10> heh :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: the debian dinner has returned
<Laney> meow
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-01
<murrayc> dholbach_: ping
<dholbach_> murrayc, pong
<murrayc> dholbach: Are you around at UDS lunch now?
<dholbach> murrayc, yes
<murrayc> Got 5 minutes? Where are you? I'm by the round tables, standing up.
<dholbach> murrayc, currently in a meeting with the track leads
<murrayc> np
<murrayc> I might catch seb128 instead. Just wanted something explained.
<murrayc> np
<dholbach> ok cool - let me know if you still need  help later on
<Laney> ajmitch: stop sitting on your own and join us!
<ajmitch> Laney: where are you?
<Laney> looking at you
<Laney> MUHAHAHAHDFHAIFHAIFGHA
<obounaim> How to download the source code of a package from the last version of ubuntu without using bzr branch?
<tumbleweed> pull-lp-source
<obounaim> Ok, thank you.
<obounaim> How to apply patches after doing a merge from Debian using bzr?
<tumbleweed> quilt push -a ?
<obounaim> thanks
<aboudreault> hey
<aboudreault> will ask in launchpad..
<obounaim> Is  "bzr lp-propose" fine with Raring?
<tumbleweed> obounaim: I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be
<tumbleweed> raring is open for development
* tumbleweed changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: raring is open for development | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs | Small tasks: http://goo.gl/bSual
<obounaim> Ok thanks
<smooth-texan> howdy all, i'd like to update a package in universe to the latest upstream release, but I'm not sure where to start.  Can someone point me in the right direction?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-02
<obounaim> Hello everybody
<obounaim> When I was trying to merge honeyd from Debian I had a conflict that I am a bit confused about it, if someone can take a look and tell what I will be very thankful. conflicts at line 71 and 85 http://paste.ubuntu.com/1325802/
<dupondje> obounaim: it needs to be merged ?
<obounaim> dupondje, according to http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/bugs/rcbugs/raring/
<dupondje> ah libevent1 bp
<dupondje> bd
<dupondje> well if you merge it, the only difference should be the libevent1-dev change in debian/control & debian/changelog
<dupondje> otherwise it should be 100% the same as debian version:)
<obounaim> so concerning the conflicts in  ltmain.sh I should keep the debian version right?
<obounaim> You can take look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/1325802/ line 71 and 85
<dupondje> I would take the debian versions yep :)
<dupondje> btw, it really needs to bd on libevent1 ? FTBFS with libevent-dev ?
<obounaim> Ok thank you dupondje,
<murrayc> I've branched a package via "bzr branch lp:debian/thepackage".
<murrayc> And I've made a change and bzr committed it.
<murrayc> I'm sure I've used "bzr push" before to put a new branch up on lp, but it's not working for me now:
<murrayc> $ bzr push lp:~murrayc/libxml++2.6/with-tests
<murrayc> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~murrayc/libxml++2.6/with-tests/": : Project 'libxml++2.6' does not exist.
<murrayc> What am I doing wrong?
<murrayc> Thats what this page suggests:
<murrayc> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/beta/en/tutorials/using_bazaar_with_launchpad.html
<jbicha> murrayc: launchpad won't let you push there unless the libxml++2.6 project were created, in other words if https://launchpad.net/libxml++2.6 were a valid page
<murrayc> Ah. So what should I do?
<Laney> you probably mean something like lp:~murrayc/debian/sid/libxml++2.6/with-tests
<murrayc> Ahaha.
<Laney> I can't remember the exact format though
<murrayc> I wonder if there's some way to use the lp:debian shorthand for that.
<murrayc> And I wonder how I can get that documentation fixed.
<Laney> the documentation is right, it's the UDD stuff that is special
<murrayc> UDD?
<Laney> the imported package branches
<Laney> I believe it's documented in the ubuntu packaging guide on developer.ubuntu.com
<murrayc> Ah, yes, I must find the other page that said the same thing but talked about the imported branches.
<murrayc> Thanks.
<murrayc> Laney: That's a very useful document. Thanks.
<Laney> no worries
<murrayc> Laney: Is there any sense in proposing a merge to the lp:debian branch? Wouldn't it need to become an ubuntu branch first?
<Laney> those branches are read only
<Laney> you can propose a merge to the Ubuntu branch though if you want it to be uploaded here
<murrayc> Will there be an Ubuntu branch? Do all the packages have Ubuntu branches?
<Laney> well, modulo bugs the ubuntu branch will be at lp:ubuntu/package
<Laney> got to go catch a train
<Laney> bye!
<murrayc> Laney: Great. Thanks.
<murrayc> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/libxml++/quantal
<murrayc> I made my change (and merge request) against raring. If I had done it against quantal, is there any automatic thing that would merge the quantal changes into raring?
<murrayc> Or is that just up to the package maintainer when he accepts the merge?
<micahg> murrayc: no, you'd need to repropose against raring
<murrayc> OK. Thanks.
<Laney> phew, all home
<dupondje> Some question. Lets say we want to build an RDP client (GUI). What SDK is preferred?
<dupondje> GTK? QT? What else?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-03
<trijntje> Hi all. I would like to get the following package into 13.04 https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-defaults-nl-team
<trijntje> its a customization package of which a few are already in the repo, this one is for Dutch. It's main purpose is to be used to create localized iso images of ubuntu
<trijntje> can someone take a look at the package an tell me what I should change before it can be included?
<obounaim> Hello, how to request a merge from launchpad UI?
<bobweaver> obounaim,  you have read  https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review  ?
<obounaim> bobweaver, it worked for me thanks.
<bobweaver> np have a good one
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-04
<ESphynx> hey guys, what's the deal with the jpeg8 libraries? they seem to be mutually exclusive with the jpeg62 dev headers?
<mohamedalaa98> Hi!
<mohamedalaa98> Can you please review th propose https://code.launchpad.net/~m-alaa8/ubuntu/raring/im-switch/fix-for-621204/+merge/132031
<mohamedalaa98> *this
<mohamedalaa98> thank you :)
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> I would like to upgrade some packages. I have no upload right, so the only way is to make a request.
<obounaim> Hello everybody,
<alo21> My question is: How should I act? I mean... when I find a package to upgrade in LP (like: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zpaq/+bug/1074840), what are the steps?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1074840 in zpaq (Ubuntu) "Zpaq package isnt up to date (wasnt updated over 2 years)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<alo21> obounaim: hi
<jtaylor> alo21: the first step should probably be forwarding the issue to debian
<alo21> jtaylor: you mean if there's an upgrated package there?
<jtaylor> the maintainer is still active, so best contact him
<alo21> ok
<jtaylor> http://packages.qa.debian.org/z/zpaq.html
<alo21> jtaylor: this mean I will never find a package without a maintainer
<jtaylor> in debian no
<jtaylor> but sometimes the maintainer is not active anymore, then it gets complicated
<alo21> jtaylor: once time I forward the issue?
<jtaylor> ?
<alo21> jtaylor: if the package will be upload in Debian, should I make a sync request?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> it will likely go into experimental which needs manual sync
<alo21> jtaylor: what do you mean with 'manual sync'?
<jtaylor> stuff from unstable is synced automatically
<jtaylor> until some point in the cycle
<jtaylor> after that or when its in experimental you need to request a sync
<alo21> jtaylor: ok... just one more question. Here (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zpaq) there is jary aalto as maintainer. The name shows there is the debian's maintainer or the Ubuntu's one?
<jtaylor> its the debian maintainer
<jtaylor> ubuntu does rarely have maintainers
<jtaylor> if the version has no ubuntuX its definitely a debian maintained package
<maxb> ....mostly :-0
<maxb> er, :-)
<maxb> The exception would be the few packages that are developed specifically for Ubuntu
<jtaylor> those have -0ubuntuX as version
<maxb> !info upstart
<ubottu> upstart (source: upstart): event-based init daemon. In component main, is required. Version 1.5-0ubuntu8 (quantal), package size 284 kB, installed size 1000 kB
<jtaylor> there are only very few were this is not true
<jtaylor> mostly very old ones
<maxb> hm, I'm sure there's a few examples somewhere
<jtaylor> only few
<siretart> !info udev
<ubottu> udev (source: udev): rule-based device node and kernel event manager. In component main, is required. Version 175-0ubuntu10 (quantal), package size 310 kB, installed size 946 kB
<maxb> OK, cheating slightly, but:
<maxb> !info ubuntu-docs
<ubottu> ubuntu-docs (source: ubuntu-docs): Ubuntu Desktop Guide. In component main, is optional. Version 12.10.2 (quantal), package size 1415 kB, installed size 38049 kB
<maxb> :-)
<siretart> !info libav-extra :-)
<ubottu> ':-)' is not a valid distribution: extras, hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, medibuntu, oneiric, oneiric-backports, oneiric-proposed, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, quantal, quantal-backports, quantal-proposed, raring, raring-backports, raring-proposed, stable, testing, unstable
<siretart> gnarf
<siretart> !info libav-extra
<ubottu> Package libav-extra does not exist in quantal
<siretart> seriously?
<siretart> ubottu: am i imagining https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/libav-extra then?
<ubottu> siretart: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<maxb> OK, my knowledge of upstart versioning is evidently a bit out of date, it got the 0ubuntuX treatment in oneiric
<micahg> siretart: the bot doesn't know about source packages
<jtaylor> it didn't have it before oneiric because it was in sync with debian
<jtaylor> but still its one of the packages maintained in ubuntu, stuff in universe is normally debian maintained
<alo21> jtaylor: the maintainer told me that he could not upgrade the package because 'Zpaq after 1.10 are complete rewrites'.
<alo21> what should I do?
<siretart> micahg: oh, i see. thanks
<jtaylor> did he say why that prevents updating?
<siretart> micahg: what do you think about uploading libav to raring?
<jtaylor> also did you file a bug?
<micahg> siretart: well, as we discussed before release, sooner is better as soon as it's ABI stable
<siretart> micahg: it is supposed to be now.
<alo21> jtaylor: I sent him the bug's link, and he told me what I wrote you before
<jtaylor> ask him to explain it in more detail, preferably in a bug report so its public
<jtaylor> I just saw he answered in the ubuntu bug
<alo21> jtaylor: yes
<alo21> jtaylor: here is another upgrade-request (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ipmitool/+bug/1074443), and it seems to be noticed yet (http://packages.qa.debian.org/i/ipmitool.html), Haven'i I to send an email to debian's maintainer. Right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1074443 in ipmitool (Ubuntu) "Please upgrade ipmitool to 1.8.12 for 13.04" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jtaylor> alo21: file a bug in debian
<alo21> jtaylor: but it is in TODO list yet
<alo21> have I to do this anyway?
<jtaylor> which todo list?
<alo21> here http://packages.qa.debian.org/i/ipmitool.html
<jtaylor> its still better to request it
<jtaylor> as debian is frozen it would need to go into experimental, the maintainer may only want to do that if there is a request for it
<alo21> jtaylor: have I attach the debian's bug in LP?
<jtaylor> alo21: click on affects distribution -> select debian and paste the bug url
<jtaylor> you should also be more verbose in the debian bug, at least link to the ubuntu bug
<jtaylor> also remember to subscribe to debian b ugs
<jtaylor> its not done by default
<tumbleweed> but one generally CCs the reporter when replying to a bug, if their input is desired
<jtaylor> yes but that can be forgotten
<tumbleweed> yeah, "generally" :)
<alo21> jtaylor: thanks
<zhur> Hello!  I don't know if this is the right channel but can someone help me with a package creating?  I've got a project sources where one of the build dependencies is bundled with the project.  How do I write a rules file that runs build of the subproject first and then the project itself (both are cmake-based)?
<rigid> ahoy
<rigid> can anyone tell me what I is needed (besides a webserver) to host a deb repository? (so the user can just add it like described here http://deb.opera.com/ for example)
<rigid> under the estimation that this is the best way to provide 3rd-party software in ubuntu...
<maxb> rigid: Besides a webserver you just need software to write the appropriate index files which tell apt what's available in the repository
<maxb> I find reprepro to be a good tool for managing a repository like this
<maxb> Though it is a tool you should expect to spend some time learning
<rigid> maxb: ah ok, so I need another program to do that...
<maxb> Alternatively there are various ways to generate indexes for just an assortment of .deb files thrown in a directory, but I don't recommend that approach for anything but the smallest most ad-hoc repository
<rigid> maxb: it's a very small repo, really... i would like to keep it at a minimum
<maxb> Is it going to be hosted on a Debian/Ubuntu server?
<rigid> no
<rigid> it will be hosted on gentoo
<maxb> Hmm. It can be tricky to sort out the index generation if you don't at least have an installation of dpkg
<rigid> i have dpkg
<rigid> i also have http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/debianutils.html and http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/debhelper.html available
<maxb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1333265/ is a script I wrote to do some very basic repositorymaking for a handful of local temporary packages in build environments
<maxb> I would expect you need to tweak it, but it should give you some inspiration and lead you in the right directions
<rigid> ah cool... thanks
<rigid> i have dpkg-scanpackages and dpkg-scansources ... i guess i'll give it a try
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-28
<Noskcaj> Has anyone got any merges i can do? I've done all of my own
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-29
<mfisch> Is there a good reason why someone would just merge directly from upstream and not from debian?
<mfisch> latexila has been merged direct from upstream several times since last spring instead of debian
<mfisch> looks like Ubuntu was ahead of debian for those so perhaps thats why, but it seems like wasted effort to some extent
<RAOF> mfisch: Generally it's better to go via Debian, but that's dependent on the uploader actually being able to go via Debian.
<mfisch> Perhaps there was a pressing need to be ahead of debian in this case
<RAOF> If the Debian maintainer's unresponsive, or just plain less responsive than the person who's interested in it in Ubuntu, then going Ubuntu first while Debian catches up isn't too bad.
<mfisch> Hopefully debian merges the new upstream in the same way so it can merge back together at some point
<RAOF> Right.
<Rhonda> Hmm, it made it to /. that sabdfl did win the austrian big brother award â¦
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-30
<Noskcaj10> Has anyone got the time to go through the sponsorship queue? i've got a heap of packages waiting, plus a number of other people.
<TheLordOfTime> anyone able to answer a question I have about gcc-4.7 (in raring)?
<TheLordOfTime> (since -packaging went inactive and never actually replied to my general question about its build deps)
<TheLordOfTime> the question is how it is able to build-depend on a package that is built from gcc-4.7, because i find it curious that the package has to build before its build-dep is satisfied.
<jtaylor> I guess it was bootstrapped from a version which did not need libx32
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: The first build probably came from a previous GCC version
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: We do have the ability to bootstrap things manually if necessary; circular build-dependencies are a reality at some level, you can't build the archive out of thin air
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, true, the question came because of an Ask Ubuntu post I was reading up on, someone wants to backport gcc-4.7 in a PPA to precise, but it fails because E:MissingBuildDependency, but the build dependency is created out of gcc-4.7 source, so it was a little confusing for me, sorta like "which came first the chicken or the egg"
<AlanBell> the chicken house comes first, otherwise a fox will eat the chickens and your eggs.
<TheLordOfTime> lol
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, i can foresee this being a problem for backporters, i assume that because you can bootstrap things by hand it works in the archive, but trying to backport something with circular build-deps will be problematic for PPA users and such?
<xnox> AlanBell: i like that answer.
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: why backporting gcc-4.7 when it's provided in the toolchain-ppa?
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: Not really interested :)
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, ask the OP of the question, not me, personally i'm fine with the gcc that's in precise already :P
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: The toolchain is out of scope for the official backports projects anyway ...
<TheLordOfTime> i was asking myself that same question, xnox, though..
<cjwatson> I'm entirely uninterested in supporting people trying to build newer toolchains; it's a rathole
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: if you want to learn about bootstrapping, google / wikipedia about it. Or just in general look up compiler articles on wikipedia aka "how to build the compiler without a compiler" and things like that.
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, yeah, i'll just answer their question saying "It can't be done" and that'll be the end of it
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: where is the question on askubuntu?
 * TheLordOfTime grabs a link
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: it's better to ask them "why would you want to do that?"
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, http://askubuntu.com/questions/368606/launchpad-missing-build-dependencies-even-though-dependency-should-be-contained
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: replied.
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, saw it, upvoted it too
<Unit193> xnox: Heya, got a sec to look at https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubiquity/debian-menu/+merge/192615 ?
<xnox> Unit193: looks good.
<xnox> Unit193: i have verify current ubiquity upload on the image, and then will do another round of merges/fixes in ubiquity
<Unit193> xnox: Sounds good.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-31
<borg__> Hi, the python-qwt5-qt4 package that is currently in the saucy repository is broken
<borg__> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyqwt5/+bug/1243102
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1243102 in pyqwt5 (Ubuntu Trusty) "python-qwt5-qt4 segfaults immediately in saucy" [Undecided,New]
<borg__> The source of the package is OK, it just needs a rebuild (there was probably a change in sip and the package wasn't rebuild accordingly)
<borg__> someone was already assigned for the bug, but he unassigned himself
<borg__> How can i find someone that can "reupload" this package?
<geser> borg__: if you can provide the needed "changes" (debdiff) for the rebuild (which are an increased package number and a changelog entry) then you could add it to the sponsoring queue
<geser> it needs to get fixed first in trusty and the needed paperwork for a saucy SRU
<borg__> geser: OK, thank you, i will make a debdiff
<borg__> geser: i made a ppa with a fixed package, attached a debdiff to the bugreport and addded "Ubuntu Sponsors Team" to the subscribers
<borg__> lets hope someone finds the time to do the paperwork
<borg__> my company uses the package and one of our programs currently segfaults at all of our customers that upgrade to saucy, quite a hassle for us :)
<Laney> Rhonda: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wesnoth-1.10/+bug/1243624
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1243624 in wesnoth-1.10 (Ubuntu) "Sync wesnoth-1.10 1:1.10.7-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> want to take care?
<Laney> I would but this connection is pretty bad & downloading the orig is killing me
<Noskcaj> Thanks for all the sponsoring Laney
<Laney> np
<Laney> queue got a bit big
<Laney> I only did a few things, others should help out too
 * Laney looks around
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-01
<Rhonda> lan3y: looks good, why do you ask? ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-02
<Laney> Rh0nda: (freenode crap hit you too, eh?) The orig was too huge to get on the hotel wifi I was on then so I couldn't do a test build :P
<Laney> thought you might want to look
<Rhonda> Laney: Nope, rather a kernel upgrade reboot. :)
<jose1999> hola
<pipedream> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIcW36J-h7Q&feature=youtu.be
<pipedream> err
<pipedream> kbye
<highvoltage> kbye pipedream
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-27
<Ayrx> hello, is there anyone here i can get to take a look at this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libscrypt/+bug/1313311 :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1313311 in libscrypt (Ubuntu) "Broken libscrypt.so symlink" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dholbach> good morning
<ki7mt> Good Morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-28
<dholbach> good morning
<Logan_> mitya57: can we sync in d-feet 0.3.9-1 from Debian? what are the "unwanted UI changes" that made you revert upstream versions in Ubuntu?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-29
<dholbach> good morning
<dupondje> d/control,mongodb-dev.*: Drop mongodb-dev package; it has no reverse
<dupondje> so if it has no reverse-dep, we just remove it?
<dupondje> for example I now need it to compile my own software ...
<geser> usually we don't do this
<dupondje> but now I need to compile mongodb myself (or adjust the package) to have the -dev files
<geser> the important part seems to be "and upstream no longer install header files"
<mitya57> Logan_: hi, please ask seb128, I reverted the upload on his request
<ki7mt> Does anyone know if there's a backport for lintian / trusty to bump the standards version to 3.9.6 v.s. 3.9.5 ?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-30
<alo21> hi, can someone give me some advice on how find a bug to fix once I chose a package, please?
<Noskcaj> alo21, sure
<alo21> Noskcaj: thanks :)
<Noskcaj> There are three bug trackers that affect ubuntu. bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/PACKAGE bugs.debian.org and whatever upstream's bug tracker is
<alo21> Noskcaj: ok...but some bugs are related to old version of software, or for older version of ubuntu....should I fix them (if I want)?
<Noskcaj> If they still exist (try to work on bugs you can reproduce), they still need fixing
<Noskcaj> If you can't reproduce it and it's only reported in non-supported versions of ubuntu, mark it incomplete and say someone needs to reproduce it in a supported release
<alo21> Noskcaj: I found I bug which I am interested in...I read all comments, and now I would like to work on it...
<Noskcaj> ...
<alo21> but, how can I run a program in debug mode (like transmission)?
<Noskcaj> If you're looking at transmission, a good way to start would be merging the latest version from debian
<Noskcaj> but for running it in debug, i'd just google how to
<Noskcaj> https://trac.transmissionbt.com/wiki/EnvironmentVariables
<alo21> Noskcaj: Is therer a page where are listed all packaged to be synced or eventually marged?
<alo21> there*
<Noskcaj> merges.ubuntu.com
<Noskcaj> universe.html main.html multiverse.html
<alo21> Noskcaj: I read the changelog of transmission on debian, and how can I see if worth it?
<Noskcaj> The "new upstream release" line means there's new stuff, also "Fixes build with newer miniupnpc" means that it needs merging soon since that version of miniupnpc is in vivid-proposed
<alo21> Noskcaj: where did you read it?
<Noskcaj> http://packages.qa.debian.org/transmission, then click changelog
<alo21> Noskcaj: ok... How did you deduce the fact that a new version of miniupnpc is a vivid proposed?
<Noskcaj> I went to launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/miniupnpc
<Noskcaj> Which also is linked from packages.qa.debian.org/miniupnpc
<alo21> Noskcaj: in there a page (for newbie) that explain when a package worth to be merged?
<Noskcaj> not really, if there's any changes that aren't in ubuntu and improve ubuntu in some way, merge it. http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/udd-merging.html explains most of how
<Noskcaj> If the debian changes fix all the ubuntu ones, sync the package
<alo21> and how do I know if I packaged should be merged now or later?
<Noskcaj> if it will work in ubuntu, and doesn't cause a transition of some sort, it should be merged as soon as someone has the time
<alo21> for example if there is  a new upstream release on 30 nov 2014, and I merge a package tomorrow, I lost precious time because I should re-marge (or sync) again
<Noskcaj> that is correct
<alo21> Noskcaj: and how can I avoid to loose time due to this reason?
<alo21> is there a way to know future release date?
<Noskcaj> Nothing you can do really
<Noskcaj> Maybe checking the debian vcs (if there is one) to see if something is being worked on
<alo21> vcs strands for?
<Noskcaj> version control system, e.g. bzr, subversion, git
<alo21> Noskcaj: If someone is working on a bug in upstream, does not mean a new version is being released shortly, right?
<Noskcaj> not necessarily.
<alo21> Noskcaj: great... so the next step is to contact the maintainer (who previously merged the package) and know if he will merge it or not, right-0
<alo21> ?*
<Noskcaj> yep
<Noskcaj> S have a look through https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html , and see if there's a package that you use
<alo21> Noskcaj: thank a lot, and really sorry to annoying you :)
<Noskcaj> *so
<Noskcaj> alo21, it's fine, i've got nothing to do, and it's good to see new people here
<alo21> Noskcaj: I checked minutes ago, and all related pages to know if is a worth-merge...
<alo21> then I preferred to ask here to do as best as I can
<Noskcaj> i'll be back in 5 min. need breakfast
<Noskcaj> alo21, Just to demonstrate, merge thunar with me
<alo21> Noskcaj: I am so glad about your proposal :9
<alo21> :)*
<alo21> Noskcaj: guide me trough... :)
<Noskcaj> First, go to packages.qa.debian.org/thunar , and check that we don't need to sync it
<Noskcaj> Then check the changelogs to see if there's any changes we are going to drop
<Noskcaj> clue: We don't drop any changes
<Noskcaj> Next, go to the folder you want to work in, and run bzr branch lp:ubuntu/thunar && cd thunar && bzr merge lp:debian/thunar
<Noskcaj> that gets the ubuntu version then merges the debian one
<alo21> Noskcaj: How can I check if we do not need to sync?
<Noskcaj> We can only sync if all the ubuntu changes are unneeded or fixed in debian
<alo21> so I have to compare debian and ubuntu changelog...right?
<Noskcaj> yep
<alo21> we can't sync
<Noskcaj> yep
<Noskcaj> I have to go to school now. The links from earlier should be enough
<alo21> Noskcaj: ook... have a nice day :)
<Noskcaj> I did the merge already at lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/thunar/merge if you need to see what changes were where.
<Noskcaj> bye
<alo21> byee
<alo21> Permission denied (publickey).
<alo21> this is what happened when I try to download from bzr
<alo21> done
<HFSPLUS> !OPS | HEY RWW WISDOM CRIES OUT FOR YOU TO REPENT BUT YOU DONT WANT TO LISTEN(PROVERBS 1:20-30)
<HFSPLUS> rww, WISDOM CRIES OUT FOR MEN TO REPENT BUT THEY DONT WANT TO LISTEN
<alo21> how do I build with pbuilder? I downloaded the source with bzr
<alo21> ?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-31
<wxl> hey are the packaging training sessions still happening?
<Noskcaj> wxl, Those things from 4 years ago?
<wxl>   /ll
<wxl> argh
<wxl> Noskcaj: i guess that's a no
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-01
<alo21> hi everybody, do I have to unclude uploader (for debian) during merge?
<alo21> are some merges run automatically? I mean without someone do it?
<alo21> such as transmission..
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-02
<HFSPLUS> !ops | rww yo whats up my nigga
<HFSPLUS> rww waaaaaaa
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-26
<dholbach> good morning
<teward> can someone assist me with debugging why sbuild is failing to mount the schroots?
<teward> nevermind, resolved.
<Unit193> micahg: I'm presuming I can just request a backport of debian-archive-keyring rather than a SRU.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-27
<micahg> Unit193: depends why :0
<Unit193> Does downgrading that package work?
<micahg> idk, haven't tried
<Unit193> Honestly, only because I don't want to have to do an SRU.  Last I knew I upgraded a while ago 'cause it couldn't deboot testing or unstable.
<micahg> hrm, we can backport it sure, would probably qualify for an SRU though
<Unit193> (I downgraded to confirm my claim, couldn't.)
<Unit193> micahg: Also filed a couple others, 1510331, and 1510329.
<micahg> ok, I need to catch up on those
<Unit193> Heh, sorry for spamming.
<dholbach> good morning
<mdeslaur> Rhonda: could you please add xenial to packages.ubuntu.com?
 * Rhonda is in xenial of that codename.
<mdeslaur> hehe
<Rhonda> Shall I keep "current release" at trusty (current LTS one), or move that marker to vivid?  It's used for the selected default distribution in searches.
<Rhonda> Ah, I move it to wily and be done.
<Rhonda> mdeslaur, should be deployed, might take a while until it is visible though.
<mdeslaur> Rhonda: thanks! :)
<Rhonda> Yep, http://packages.ubuntu.com/irssi does display xenial at top (but there wasn't a fetch of the new data so far, so â¦)
<Unit193> Hi.  If I'm pulling from Debian unreleased VCS and fully intend to get back in sync after it's uploaded to Debian, can I use something other than -0ubuntu1?
<tumbleweed> -0ubuntu1 still sounds fairly appropriate
<Unit193> It is, but it prevents the auto-sync.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-28
<Unit193> I don't suppose someone could review https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+sourcepub/5608954/+listing-archive-extra ?
<Unit193> (xscreensaver for xenial.)
<dholbach> good morning
<dkessel> good morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey dkessel
<taggart> I maintain check-mk in debian and it looks like universe is a little out of date with sid. how do I submit a request to update it?
<taggart> someone on the upstream mailing list was asking about it today
<teward> taggart: universe where?  Multiple releases of Ubuntu after all ;)
<taggart> packages says it's currently only in wily
<taggart> wait no, did the search wrong
<tumbleweed> taggart: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/check-mk
<taggart> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=check-mk
<tumbleweed> that's the view you want
<teward> rmadison is your friend ;)
<teward> (also the link tumbleweed sent :))
<tumbleweed> rmadison is slow, though :P
<taggart> yeah I don't have ubuntu in my rmadison
<teward> tumbleweed: true
<teward> tumbleweed: even so ;)
<teward> taggart: Xenial == sid version, probably due to autosync, are you referring to the older releases of Ubuntu (precise, trusty, vivid, wily)?
<tumbleweed> taggart: you do. -u ubuntu
<taggart> oh good xenial has the latest version
<taggart> tumbleweed: oh cool
<taggart> so maybe what I am asking for is backports then
<tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
<teward> ooo that reminds me...
<taggart> the person I am trying to help is running trusty
<teward> micahg: poke
<taggart> the backport should build with no changes (and if for some reason it doesn't I can help fix the source package so it does)
<taggart> I'll file an issue in launchpad
<teward> last I checked the backports process, though, you also have to check inbetween releases
<teward> meh
 * teward yawns
<tumbleweed> taggart: there's a tool for this: requestbackport
<taggart> tumbleweed: oh cool ubuntu-dev-tools is in debian, nice
<teward> ooo i learned something new today xD
<teward> didn't know those were in Debian :)
<taggart> hmm, I think it might need to be backported in debian though
<taggart> requestbackport: Error: Source release xenial does not exist
<tumbleweed> taggart: check your distro-info-data version
<taggart> tumbleweed: where is that?
<tumbleweed> it's a package
<teward> taggart: i can run the requestbackport if you'd like, and give you the link to edit stuff :P
<taggart> yep, jessie only has 0.26 which is missing xenial
<teward> besides, i have to redo a backport req anyways for ZNC :)
<taggart> I will backport it to jessie
<taggart> teward: I can do it, I just have to shave the yaks in the way :)
<teward> :)
<tumbleweed> taggart: yeah, sorry, I'm pretty slack at getting distro-info-data SPUs in Debian. We had one difficult one, and they stalled
<taggart> yeah SPU would be better, but jessie-backports will work for now
<taggart> I guess I could do wheezy-backports too
<taggart> (wheezy-backports-sloppy I mean)
<taggart> backported and uploaded to jessie-backports
<taggart> filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1511079
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1511079 in trusty-backports "Please backport check-mk 1.2.6p12-1 (universe) from xenial" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> hi teward
<teward> micahg: was it you who was working with me on the znc backport?  If so did we just cancel it or did it not go anywhere?
 * teward forgets :)
<teward> micahg: there it is, you were working on me, can you invalid this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/trusty-backports/+bug/1449248
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1449248 in trusty-backports "Please backport znc 1.6.0-2 (universe) from vivid" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<teward> (I am going to wait for the next point release, which addresses some mem leak issues)
<teward> (that is, the next upstream point release, and that to land in Debian)
<micahg> teward: done, thanks
<teward> micahg: you're welcome, thanks for poking at it :)
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-29
<Unit193> Logan: Anything specific you saw missing?
<Logan> Unit193: relink me to the package, and I'll take another look tomorrow
<Logan> with a more thorough response
<Logan> gotta do some work now
<Unit193> Logan: Ah that's fine, was just about dropbear sync.  Otherwise I had https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+sourcepub/5608954/+listing-archive-extra
<Logan> cheers
<Unit193> Have fun.
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-30
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2016-10-31
<cjwatson> jcfp: I believe that the release team is currently holding off on re-enabling auto-sync until the Perl 5.24 transition is sorted out, to avoid unnecessary build failure chaos.
<cjwatson> jcfp: Shouldn't be too much longer though.
<jcfp> cjwatson: thanks, didn't know about that
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-01
<roaksoax> ///win 15
#ubuntu-motu 2017-10-31
<xpkill24> help please thank
<xpkill24> super
#ubuntu-motu 2017-11-03
<roaksoax> .win 2
