#ubuntu-discuss 2012-08-19
<jussi> So it seems adobe reader is really unsafe. http://is.gd/c4EC4a
<AlanBell> good job I use evince
<jussi> yep
<jussi> and I okular
<jussi> it may however, be worth our people checking if any of the same holes are in evince and/or okular
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-08-16
<Strav> Hello idle people. Here's an interesting read that I felt I really could have written word for word" https://micahflee.com/2013/01/why-im-leaving-ubuntu-for-debian/ I'd like to know if regarding this, there is going to be a change of direction in ubuntu or are the plans for more and more advertising already well entrenched?
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-08-11
<NicksCode> Is getting an IDS worth it for desktop?
<NicksCode> Or too many false positives?
<hrnz> no
<manuel_> hi
<manuel_> bye
<manuel__1> hi
<manuel__1> bye
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-10
<daftykins> EriC^^: yes - one of us ~ one of us ~ :D
<EriC^^> i dont follow
<daftykins> for adding this chan to your auto join ;)
<EriC^^> is that a reference to the joan osbourne song?
<EriC^^> oh
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> more a Simpsons episode
<daftykins> i'm extremely cultured O_.
<EriC^^> simpsons are the best
<EriC^^> we used to have comedy channel here, it kind of disappeared some years ago, it was pretty cool
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i'll bet this fellow 'analreap' is a fine chap
<EriC^^> lol
<wileee> yes, ignored immediately
<OerHeks> There is a factoid for that, badident
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> i think using it would feed that troll
<wileee> yep, anyone using a offensive nic is not worth dealing with honestly
<OerHeks> Comic Sans MS Medium Italic 9p
<OerHeks> oops
<wileee> +1
<daftykins> i nearly said comic sans XD
<daftykins> man i still remember an English teacher back in ~2001 asking me "what that font is everyone uses"
<daftykins> "it's all ubuntus fault!"
<daftykins> oh wait it was permissions, tee-hee
<Bashing-om> Spock "Logical" .
<daftykins> ugh surgy is back
<lordievader> Good morning.
<daftykins> t-nelson - don't like this guy already
<wileee> not any real help, and kinda lose on what is given, it's like looking in the mirror, heh
<daftykins> XD
<wileee> best thing to learn here, is who really knows, and to stay out of their way
<wileee> we just need a drinking game now on specific words or fud...etc
<daftykins> :D that's a good iea
<daftykins> idea too
<daftykins> then on Sundays we can play "support or hinder"
<wileee> fud, we would be wasted in an hour
<wileee> heh that is a good one
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-11
<wileee> when I see rockstar_ Tim Curry singing in the Rocky Horror Picture Show start playing in the background of my consciousness
<wileee> starts*
<daftykins> :D
<wileee> meh pop culture nics argh
<daftykins> t-nelson *facepalm*
<wileee> ;)
<daftykins> that's a great Bjork track, Army of One!
<ObrienDave> dang, t-whatever is all alone now. grrrr
<daftykins> hmm?
<daftykins> he's a bit of a nob
<ObrienDave> a BIT????
<ObrienDave> ;p
<daftykins> XD
<ObrienDave> oh, noob. i thought you meant knob ;P
<daftykins> yeah i meant nob :)
<daftykins> he clearly knows something, just... not channel policy! :D
<ObrienDave> lol
<ObrienDave> i'm not so sure of either. afaik, software does the caching, not the tuner card ROFL
<daftykins> ah i wasn't paying attention to that stuff :>
<ObrienDave> i'm sure some have RAM for buffering
<daftykins> i'd rather obtain TV episodes than watch such an outmoded method of delivery as broadcast
<ObrienDave> i'd rather use handbrake ;P
<ObrienDave> or MakeMKV
<daftykins> hmm takes too long to transcode blurays to sane sizes
<daftykins> i did look at it for a client who i have a diskless setup for
<daftykins> discless rather
<daftykins> ~1000 DVD films all on a RAID volume, playable from HTPCs running Kodi atop Linux
<daftykins> over the network
<ObrienDave> i have time. i'll rip a $2 blu-ray and wait 12 hours for a 4G .mp4
<ObrienDave> rental, that is
<daftykins> why make it so small o0
<ObrienDave> i cut rez by 50%, still watchable at 25% size :)
<daftykins> erk i could never do that
<daftykins> i like my 10Mb+ H.264 transcodes with a minimum of DTS
<daftykins> at full res
<ObrienDave> lappy does not complain ;P
 * wileee practices eye rolling
<TJ-> always the casw when a user believes they've discovered some bug that no-one ever saw before. I suspect there's some custom settings inherited from previous releases, after reading the bug report I found complaining about the opposite behaviour
<wileee> most likely yes, it seems there are just frustrated and externalizing the blame, failure does not warn itself.
<wileee> excellent research TJ-
<lordievader> Good morning.
<OerHeks> :-)
<EriC^^> TJ-: win10 seems to have fixed itself, booted today and it was at around 70'c most of the time
<OerHeks> carefull with that new win10 DNS leak, EriC^^ :-D
<EriC^^> :D
<lordievader> That DNS leak is soo bad... Who thought that was a good idea?
<OerHeks> lordievader, China & USA
<daftykins> DNS leak?
<OerHeks> yes, you visited xkcd and imgur .. no?
<lordievader> daftykins: Windows 10 queries all interfaces for DNS, the fastest response is taken. If that is a rogue dns or not, if it is quick it is followed.
<daftykins> ah, you'd have to be using DHCP then still?
<lordievader> Not necessarily.
<tintedwindows> dubba dubba dubba heyyyyyy
<daftykins> nice entrance
<tintedwindows> :)
<tintedwindows> has anyone heard if the ifconig command is going to be obsolete soon?
<daftykins> no timing but definitely murmurings that ifconfig will move to the 'ip' set
<daftykins> i play with it occasionally but don't really like how it presents information
<tintedwindows> yea i normally use ip addr
<tintedwindows> but i was messing around in Kali and read that in a forum and was like,,,  whhaaaaaatttt
<daftykins> then i can increase your efficiency, because "ip a" does just that
<tintedwindows> nice!
<tintedwindows> thanks
<lordievader> tintedwindows: That is about time, ifconfig is crap.
<lordievader> http://inai.de/2008/02/19
<tintedwindows> what is that?
<lordievader> tintedwindows: Read it ;)
<tintedwindows> nice this is amazing
<lordievader> Uhu, ifconfig needs to die ;)
<tintedwindows> haha
<tintedwindows> thats what ive been reading in Kali forums at least
<lordievader> Oh, they'll agree with me for sure ;)
<tintedwindows> do you have any info or good sites like that- that talk about amping up network security?
<tintedwindows> OMG do you play quake, quak2 or open arena?!
<lordievader> Err, not really. I'm still just a beginner with pentesting, etc.
<lordievader> No?
<tintedwindows> only cause i saw maps for DOOM on that site wasnt sure if you were into it
<tintedwindows> yea me too
<lordievader> Setting up proper firewall rules is a good start I suppose.
<lordievader> https://www.reddit.com/user/andyrey/m/security is interesting.
<daftykins> you folks caught this one? though it's Windows only as-is, it doesn't prevent the idea that the EFI on Lenovo systems could start doing something to Linux hosts too at some point
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29497693
<EriC^^> well that sucks
<lordievader> If it's [1] it would be very interesting. [1] https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-22/dc-22-presentations/Kallenberg/DEFCON-22-Corey-Kallenberg-Extreme-Privilage-Escalation.pdf
 * daftykins clicks
<wileee> mastering anything is a time factor, bout 10,000 hours for music, you gotta be obsessed, or a good time manager, IT may have more or less the same time.
<wileee> about*
<OerHeks> I have 13.767 tracks, 37 days 10:53:23 hrs ~ just 898 hours
<JanC> I don't think that's what wileee was referring to  :)
<OerHeks> I just needed to see the perspective, JanC
<OerHeks> 10,000 hrs is more than one year
<wileee> OerHeks, hexdecimalagain comments
<wileee> mastering a craft etc
<OerHeks> oh oke
<wileee> It is a tough one, there are so many areas to be good in, music is as well, I can play jazz proficiently however ethnic musics out side that are difficult to just pick up.
<wileee> IT*
<JanC> Quod Libet says I have over 128 days of music  :P
<JanC> which is really crazy
<wileee> JanC, playing or practicing?
<wileee> err listening
<JanC> it's a music player
<wileee> making songs?
<JanC> so I could be listening to different albums for 128 days
<JanC> <JanC> which is really crazy
<OerHeks> But i do have all the cds ... or just the cover .. or just the scratched cd ..
<wileee> Ah, do what you enjoy, heh.
<JanC> wileee: some of my friends make music though
<JanC> so I know a bit what's involved etc.
<wileee> If your into it, it is a blissful expression no matter the level your at, hopefully for all.
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-12
<wileee> I know a guy, just strums the guitar hard and sings his songs and refuses to learn any technique, feeling the creativity will carry them. However it has not, they barely improve, however they are happy in that view, I say nothing but sounds good man. ;)
<daftykins> brb
<JanC> https://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/368694/pia-fraus
<JanC> wileee: some friends of me ^^^
<OerHeks> "dit is jouw ritme" i like this one, as a ringtone or wakeup-sound
<JanC> (that band doesn't exist any more though)
<wileee> JanC, I like it, anything with genre mixing and dissonance musically or social comment...etc gets my vote
<JanC> OerHeks: you can download it for free :)
<OerHeks> It is a nice site, you showed me that before :-)
<OerHeks> If i could play an istrument, i would publish there too.
<JanC> Drops, Splashes, etc. is also a good track
<JanC> with that old wind-up music box
<wileee> I watched a bio on Ray Kurzweil, this is all you need OerHeks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Neivqp2K4
<JanC> this is the new project from the singer & graphics artist of pIA fRAUS: https://soundcloud.com/embersnoise
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Is preparing to be a dentist ? Practicing pulling info to get the feel of pulling teeth .
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> never seen a pastebin with a paste.ubuntu.com url before ...
<wileee> JanC, I'm good friends with the guitar player here, they were basically industrial hip pop, early in hip pops start.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjqdEfRW0j4
<daftykins> bunches of idiots :/
<daftykins> OerHeks: yeah that's a record :>
<JanC> ooh, Consolidated
<wileee> an amazing player, we donate our muisc time to a homeless org, traing the kids  etc
<JanC> wileee: I actually have one of their albums  :)
<wileee> an amazing band in their own right really
<wileee> cool
<JanC> any of your own music online?
<wileee> JanC, Nah, jazz is hardly ever recorded and I have just not bothered, I don't play as often anymore.
<JanC> I have their "Play More Music" album
<wileee> cool, excellent album, Adam gives his all to the general community, he is in it for the long hall.
<JanC> like most people around here, I got to know them from the âYou Suckâ single by Consolidated feat The Yeastie Girls
<JanC> but I guess most people never bought their album  :)
<JanC> you could say that that single was sort of an underground hit in Europe  :)
<wileee> Heh, yeah probably, my favorite is The Typical Male, I met Adam when a friend got the drum spot in the late 90's, Adam lived locally. Todd Breyerton is the drummers name, his step brother and professional upright bass and violin player Rob Thomas, has played the scene in NY, with pop and Jazz groups.
<wileee> with Debbie Harry and Elvis Costello, forget the group name
<JanC> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoyUUu1rPhE (possibly NSFW lyrics :P )
<JanC> wileee: interesting
<JanC> Rob Thomas seems like a name I know
<JanC> but there probably are many Rob Thomas  :)
<wileee> heh yeah common names
<JanC> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Thomas_%28musician%29 ?
<JanC> Tabitha's Secret, Matchbox Twenty, Jewel, ...
<wileee> JanC, THis is him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afXyAZ3eA0Y
<wileee> playing Mahavishnu, one of my faves by them
<JanC> so probably another Rob Thomas
<JanC> but still cool too
<wileee> This all brings back really happy memories of when I played more often and the level of players I was lucky to play with. ;)
<JanC> :)
<JanC> maybe one of my nieces can learn to play jazz...
<JanC> she learns to play the flute at the music school but they complain that although she plays rather well, she often doesn't play what is on the music sheets and improvises instead  ;)
<daftykins> little cheat!
<JanC> which is somewhat annoying when she's supposed to play a duet with a fellow student & such  :)
<JanC> well, annoying for that other student & the teacher at least
<wileee> heh, I did the same, playing the notes transposed to within the harmony, like  5th away
<wileee> a*
<wileee> JanC, Turn her onto this cat, I've met him, very unusual tone and style. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTp9mjI04kM
<wileee> he's a monster
<wileee> heh, the drummer on this lives locally as well
<wileee> and that what a solid gold haynes flute sounds like
<JanC> she's only 9yo you know, so she doesn't really know what "jazz" is
<JanC> but I can try to see if she likes it  :)
<wileee> JanC, Sure, does not have to be jazz, just the exposure to top rate players can help, your there though you know what's best for her.
<JanC> \o/ for youtube-dl
<wileee> I saw the last rehearsal of Lew and his former wifes album "Tanuki's Night Out" at the musicians union in LA, and got to sit in with a trumpet player in the band's own progressive Jazz group, I was a junior in highschool, and traveling with our stage band there. I had met the trumpet player locally and help set up the meeting with our band director that end up being this trip
<wileee> I was a go getter at meeting the great players when younger
<wileee> not quite like meeting Linus, but half way there, lol
<JanC> his former wife = Toshiko Akiyoshi?
<wileee> yeah
<wileee> meant to put the name in, she is an amazing artist herself
<JanC> I guess meeting Linus's dad is easier than meeting Linus for me  :P
<wileee> lol probably so
<wileee> I'm not a fan of swearing
<JanC> as his dad is a MEP (Member of European Parliament)
<wileee> heh, kinda explains Linus, he is amazing, he knows it and wants to be sure we know it. ;)
<JanC> http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/114268/NILS_TORVALDS_home.html
<wileee> you don't get to where they both are by not being highly intelligent
<JanC> I know he's a member of EPFSUG at least (European Parliament Free Software User Group)
<JanC> but I guess he owes that to his son  :)
<JanC> well, not only a member but also a "patron"
<JanC> which helps them to be a legitimized association inside the EP
<wileee> yeah
<JanC> you can set up a group with people working in the EP and also other people from outside, but if you want to use EP infrastructure (like a conference/meeting room), you need some MEPs to vouch for you by becoming a "patron"
<wileee> makes sense there is a model there
<wileee> will somebody kill kadiro please
<daftykins> i'd like it if someone did
<daftykins> guys an ass - and just hinders people since his english is so terrible
<wileee> does not dig in, just gives what sounds like a google search
<wileee> not investigated
 * daftykins looks at titocaldo
<daftykins> yeah not touching that one with a bargepole
<daftykins> :>
<wileee> someones off their meds, lol
<tintedwindows> anybody wanna play me in Quake??
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ObrienDave> o/
<ObrienDave> *bangs head on keyboard*
<lordievader> Hihi
<wileee> just joined comcast, tech tried to charge me 70$ for flipping on comcast's switch, took a week and two calls to get it reversed
<ObrienDave> our tech spent 7 hours tracing down 20 year-old cables to get mine working yesterday. ^5 to the tech
<wileee> Poor guy was working in 103 weather, I wished I coild give him 150 really, but just don't have the 70
<wileee> he was a portly fellow prop 400lbs or so, he was not having a good time in the heat
<ObrienDave> i guess. my wife gave the tech survey all 10s for what he went through
<wileee> I always do no matter what, you never know why there was an issue and people support families.
<wileee> I have a couple stupid people complain they know the owner, at my job and they will get me fired, lol there not even smart enough to no better than proclaim that.
<wileee> know*
<ObrienDave> somebody told my step-son that. he replied, "lady, i AM the owner!" ROFL
<wileee> I just said, you know, I know him to.
<ObrienDave> lol that works
<wileee> and offered his phone #
<wileee> it is my college dream job, janitor/manager of a laundromat, heh, just a few bucks extra, at a flat rate, probably equals out to about 20 per hour spent at the lowest.
<wileee> I've never seen more drama for 2$ lost in a user error of overloading a machine and having that pointed out, lol
<ObrienDave> i like my new job. they hand me material, prints/models, decent machine and say "go have fun" LOL
<wileee> that's the way it should be
<ObrienDave> as long as it meets the specs, they don;t care how i make it :)
<wileee> I'm extroverted so I like meeting the people, met some really interesting folks there made some new friends, not a bad situation really.
<wileee> we just need a bar is all
<ObrienDave> i'll drink to that ;P
<wileee> ;)
<ObrienDave> sleepy time *waves*
<wileee> later
<OerHeks> :-)
<EriC^^> :)
<TJ-> Seem to be making progress on the Super Talent mini-PCIe SSD issue; It looks as if the Core Store Plus expects to use the CLKREQ# (active low) signal to control the clock (and therefore power consumption) but the host PCs I've put it in don't use that signal.
<lordievader> Do you know why the card expects it, or why the host doesn't use it?
<TJ-> Well, the use of the signal has changed as the PCI interface specs have developed over time. In theory it is an optional signal... but if the Core Store is expecting it the design may not take account of it not being available, or it might expect the signal to be pulled up through a resistor. But, when not connected and therefore floating it might change things. Although, this is an Output from the PCIe card, so in theory that ought not to matter.
<TJ-> Interestingly, Super Talent engineers specifically asked me earlier to ensure ASPM is disabled and L0 (Latency) is on. ASPM is another aspect of power-state management like CLKREQ#... is ASPM isn't used maybe the card relies on CLKREQ#
<lordievader> Newer PCI standards are backward compatible with older standards, right? Would be strange to have some option be mandatory first and optional later.
<TJ-> However, not having CLKREQ# connected just means the host would never stop the PCICLK signal delivered to the card, which would only mean it never drops to a lower-power state, so this theory may be totally incorrect.
<TJ-> That's the general idea... but *implementations* don't always get it correct since they may be developed only with later standard hosts and test platforms
<OerHeks> njummie, 4K UHD http://www.techdrivein.com/2015/08/shotcut-open-source-video-editor-linux.html
<OerHeks> is bug 1 still valid ?
<ubot5> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<OerHeks> http://www.zdnet.com/article/canonical-and-microsoft-working-together-on-containers/
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: I saw where Mark had closed out bug 1 .. If I get the time will hunt up the refernce where he closed it .
<ubot5> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<OerHeks> It has been closed and reopened several times, IIRC
<wileee> I thought it was a sideways joke
<wileee> a jab at MS
<daftykins> i think it's both a joke and a mission statement :)
<OerHeks> sad indeed.
<wileee> ah we don't wanna stop Big Bill from paying back the devil by giving it all away now do we. ;)
<daftykins> he does a lot for worldwide disease which i think is cool
<daftykins> other partners of his from Microsoft's past just seem to go be rich folk and that's it :)
<wileee> for sure, him and buffet are great, it's noble work
<wileee> he* doh
<wileee> berkshire just bought precision cast parts about 37 billion
<tintedwindows> anybody good with proxy's? or have a nice website that'll teach me to use with online gaming?
<lordievader> Don't think you want to use proxys in combination with gaming.
<daftykins> 1) idiot for asking for help in here 2) idiot for wanting to game over a proxy 3) oh there'd be more
<OerHeks> sometimes i read the logs back from 2009 .. if the word Fool didn't existthen,  it would be 'don't be an OerHeks' .. man, i wrecked some pcÅ and servers.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> are you saying i should be more forgiving? ;)
<OerHeks> no, silly questions will never end.
<OerHeks> just to say; some will learn.
<Bashing-om> ^ and then there is me, seeking to learn .
<OerHeks> Someday i hope to get a job, were i can deploy this knowledge i picked up here.
<wileee> I nothing nothing and did not due it. ;)
 * wileee leaves the large batch of day old starbucks pastry on the table in the corner
<daftykins> mmm pastry, only a day you say?
 * daftykins gobbles
<Bashing-om> methinks pastry - less than a week old - makes coffee better .
<wileee> yeah, picked it up at salvation army, lots of kellir daves bread as well
<wileee> killer*
<wileee> the bread is a local company, started by a former inmate kinda crazy, heh, the bread is some of the best
<daftykins> so it appears we're still suffering from two horrible helpers/hinderers - artois and kadiro
<daftykins> if we ignore me i mean *whistle*
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-13
<JanC> so basically Microsoft wil implement their containers such that their APIs are compatible with LXC & LXD?
<JanC> because for sure a Windows container can never run on linux or vice versa (unless you use something like WINE, of course)
<wileee> ration that raytion
<daftykins> :)
<wileee> kept wanting to say it, better here. ;)
 * wileee tunes into the ignore list turns
<daftykins> *nod* :(
<ObrienDave> waves
<lordievader> Good morning.
<OerHeks> ugh, zanzibizar and badboth on the bazang-hunt ..? and there is h80s again..
<ObrienDave> yup, they're in ##TopChat plotting the channel trolling
<OerHeks> jam jam, they know me :-( ....
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> losers :)
<cfhowlett> I always imagine sweaty, mom's basement dwelling, pimply faced nerds with hordes of discarded mountain dew cans laying about.  But perhaps I'm overgeneralizing.
<ObrienDave> maybe a bit much on the Mountain Dew cans ;P
<cfhowlett> well, Jolt Cola is no longer sold??
<daftykins> can't buy mountain dew in cans over here :(
<cfhowlett> "here" = ???  (not trying to doxx you, I promise!)
<ObrienDave> all the sugar and twice the caffeine. LOL loved that stuff :P
<cfhowlett> ObrienDave, yeah, it got me through an looming term paper deadline or two.
<ObrienDave> got me through many severe hangover days LOL
<daftykins> cfhowlett: hehe, well it disappeared in the UK as a whole i think, but i'm a little further south in the Channel Islands
<daftykins> it's come back in the last year or two as an energy drink with caffeine in
<cfhowlett> oh snap!  just learned; Jolt Cola x2 is a thing!!
<daftykins> oh that was cholby, ugh
<wileee> lots of energy drinks with 150-300 mg of caffeine, love them
<wileee> sedate, caffeine,, sedate, caffeine, repeat till baked
<daftykins> hahaha
 * ObrienDave would rather have straight coffee ;p
<ObrienDave> beer 1st ;P
 * cfhowlett learned to love cold-brewed coffee
<wileee> cold brew french press, have a 1.5 litre here had to search for it, amazon is the bomb
<cfhowlett> filtron or toddycafe make the units.
<wileee> heh todd of toddy is a chemical engineering graduate of Cornell, that is s got to buy
<wileee> a*
<daftykins> i bet atralheaven's idea is 'cowsay hi $username' on every login
<daftykins> = instantly better ubuntu!
<OerHeks> or oracle java in the repos
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> did you see that one in the news about an Oracle guy saying "finding security issues in our software is like cheating on your wife"
<TJ-> did you hear the one about Oracle claiming they own all your APIs? :P
<daftykins> mmm nope
<TJ-> You've not followed Oracle vs Google and the subsequent appeals up to the SCOTUS that have found that APIs *are* copyrightable, and it has been remanded back to the district court to determine if Google's use (in Apache Harmony) of the Java APIs is fair-use
<TJ-> It was one of the biggest issues that Groklaw followed until PJ went offline
<daftykins> a lot of the words in your sentences i don't have a clue about :D
<daftykins> and i'm not a dev or anything, so i don't tend to touch a lot of such fields
<TJ-> Thankfully EU law on interoperability means we're not directly impacted
<TJ-> Basically, until this case, it had been universally accepted in the software industry that an Application Programming Interface (API) - the list of callable functions and their parameters and types - was not copyrightable as it is not a creative work, and is a factual description of how to interface to the library/service.
<TJ-> Now, in the USA, the courts have decided such APIs are copyrightable so that anyone that re-implements an API could be sued for copyright infringement.
<TJ-> APIs are at the very heart of *every* web-service, most applications that use dynamically loadable shared libraries, kernel <> userspace and kernel <> kernel interfaces
<TJ-> To avoid the copyright it means everyone will have to implement a new, unique, API - cannot reuse an existing interface that isn't permissively licenced
<TJ-> Oracle was mad that Google re-implemented some parts of the Java API in Android. Unfortunately for Google, they didn't want to have to abide by the GNU GPL so they didn't use the OpenJDK as a basis, which would have protected them. Instead, they used the Apache Harmony implementation which has no such protection.
<daftykins> ah ok so wheel reinventing has been forced by the US legal system
<TJ-> It's looking that way... whether Google will win the fair-use argument is still to be known. If not, Oracle wants US$billions for infringement
<daftykins> they're a perfect example of an evil corp, but then google's in the other corner who often upset many :D
<TJ-> We already know what the US is like for patent infringement suits... imagine what it'll be like with all those tech companies suing each other for using APIs! Already there are non-practicing entities (NPEs) buying up copyrights in APIs with the presumable intention of suing companies with deep pockets
<TJ-> The weird thing is... this means Oracle will be sued because it reuses many APIs itself . It's opened a real can of worms.
<OerHeks> LoLz
<daftykins> such a shame
<TJ-> The shame is this could have a very chilling effect on open source projects... Samba for example, with the MS APIs.
<OerHeks> Patent on a colour, Europe has those stupid patents too.
<TJ-> EU patent law isn't as stupid as the US... we're much saner here in applying the requirements of originality and machine
<OerHeks> I must agree with that.
<TJ-> s/machine/machine transformation/
<OerHeks> hmm fullcirclemagazine is moving to a paid site.. need registering, and they want to know what i do next saturday too
<wileee> mmmm confirmation bias, yummie
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-14
<wileee> why the mods are allowing this is beyond me, they have been hindering for days and argumentative when addressed
<OerHeks> wileee, i just tried.
<OerHeks> but i am no Op/mod,just a member :-)
<wileee> I know, I don't generally care, but they answer every post practically.
<OerHeks> bazang takes over, that is oke.
<wileee> they are getting the idea in any functional  manner
<wileee> not*
<OerHeks> yeah, frustrating sometimes, especially when there is no logic in the answer.
<wileee> they will not stop till banned I guarantee ;)
<TJ-> Grrr, why is it there's no one around that can answer *my* questions!?
<OerHeks> Grrr-eetings, TJ
<OerHeks> nice .. still in testing, but nice ... http://itsfoss.com/ubuntu-official-ppa-graphics/  https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<OerHeks> including the NEW 355 !
<daftykins> wow that was quick
<daftykins> i only just got linked to the discussion email about doing something recently :)
<OerHeks> :-)
<OerHeks> i like itfoss, great manuals too
<daftykins> i think today's customers are competing for the worst worded question
<OerHeks> yeah daftykins, to day is such a day
<OerHeks> and tomorrow won't go away
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> the weekend users came early!
 * OerHeks clings a beer or 2
<daftykins> maybe i should go get some
<OerHeks> yeah, weekends i keep low profile
 * wileee blows out a cloud and coughs
<OerHeks> don't shoke on LXC man
<OerHeks> Lucky we have ikonia tonight :-D
<wileee> yeah, to the point, gets it done.
<OerHeks> i really learned a lot from him. just saying.
<wileee> yeah, me too
<daftykins> wow, there's a user called facepalm
<wileee> saw that, heh
<wileee> my favorites are the variations of anonymous that are clueless
<wileee> leet spelling and all, lol
<OerHeks> i love nicknames that start with [ ] - _ + '/ . or `
<OerHeks> and pastebin
<wileee> gotta change to one staring with ! to kick the bot every time you answer
<daftykins> i see the trolling has commenced
<OerHeks> oh yeah?
<daftykins> mmm, lots of 'em
<OerHeks> trollin on mi birthday, bad choise
<daftykins> d'aww it's your birthday? happy birthday OerHeks!
<OerHeks> Thanks :-)
<OerHeks> i noticed no real urgent need for support so i go sit in here
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Get more cake here ... Happy Bday !!
<wileee> anyone else noticing Koning is someone we know already more than likely
<wileee> heh finally
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-15
<daftykins> i reported in ops before things got too dumb
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> yeah could be one of our fans!
<pauljw> support is really weird tonight isn't it?
<Bashing-om> Papa OerHeks said there would be days like this .
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> but he never told me what to do ;_;
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Oh dear, I bet you just were not listening ? ( dashing my mental image of daftykins -- crash )
<daftykins> :D
<wileee> please release me, put me in ignore ;)
<daftykins> tgm4883: not sure why you're backing up clowns today
<tgm4883> daftykins: I'm not?
<tgm4883> daftykins: I suppose I'm kinda tired of people not being able to troubleshoot off script
<daftykins> hmm?
<Bashing-om> users ! Is this a friday, or is this a friday ?
<daftykins> :D
<tgm4883> daftykins: it just seems like (not you specifically) that #ubuntu has become a place where if someone asks a question about something that is a slightly non-standard way of doing something that we just give up and make them conform to our standards
<daftykins> yeah but look what happened... user fucked up
<daftykins> now he/she is withholding information too from being too butthurt over what i said
<daftykins> and i might add, that's after telling two different tales about what happened :)
<tgm4883> daftykins: probably yes, but hammering them with "why did you do that you don't need to do that" is not helpful. Asking them for the parted info is more helpful. Asking for the parted info first would have gotten us the info
<tgm4883> daftykins: so while yes, you got to berate the user for doing it wrong, now we're in a standoff
<daftykins> i think you're reading into it with too much emotion
<daftykins> i asked why it was done the way it was done
<wileee> their attitude was a stand off waiting till leaving or banned
<tgm4883> daftykins: I'm pointing out that for 5 minutes of "troubleshooting" you could have asked for the parted info (or for the partitioner log), instead you just kept telling them they didn't need to partition first, despite that not being a reason the partitioner should fail
<tgm4883> logs or parted output would prove what you suspected
<tgm4883> in any case, someone should file a bug against partman if they can reproduce that
<daftykins> we only got to the partition layout deduction once the user gave the real, second version of events
<daftykins> so i don't greatly appreciate a judging in hindsight
<daftykins> i'm sure all your support is perfect :)
<shreyash> Hi, My name is Shreyash! I love Ubuntu and have been using it for a long time. I would like to contribute! Can anyone give me some guidance??
<tgm4883> daftykins: second thing he said "guest24234> i set up a duel boot using gparted and its hanging when i choose something else" First thing he said was he was having an issue with the 15.04 installer
<Bashing-om> shreyash: A place to start : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu .
<daftykins> right which ended up being a lie
<tgm4883> through deduction, I figured out he was having an issue with the partitioner, which leads me to believe I should look at partman logs
<tgm4883> daftykins: was that a lie? I didn't see that anywhere
<tgm4883> shreyash: what do you know how to do?
<daftykins> well yeah because then we're told it's installing
<shreyash> Installer usually appears to hang during installation if there is is a lot of drive area/multiple drives involved. I don't really know the issue but I'm pretty good with the installer. I've done some hackintosh installation as well.
<shreyash> I'm good at programming in c++, web development, a bit of java... Also I'm familiar with git
<tgm4883> shreyash: I agree, a good place for you to start would be that wiki page
<shreyash> Going through it right now :)
<tgm4883> daftykins: did I back up any other clowns today?
<daftykins> nope just that one :)
<tgm4883> heh ok
<daftykins> though hopefully second guessing doesn't become a regular thing
<tgm4883> I didn't recall, I was backing up some developers on a mailing list the last few days
<tgm4883> oh I wasn't second guessing you, I agree the user didn't need to partition first. I just flat outl think that was bad support. It's similar to if a user said, "I'm having trouble with qbittorrent" and all you said was "hey you dummy, use transmisssion instead".
<tgm4883> I mean, sure, tell him once, but then get on with the troubleshooting
<tgm4883> also, I really like bringing this discussion out into this channel. Gives us a chance to see both sides
<daftykins> i think that's a poor comparison but i know what you're getting at
<daftykins> i was really hoping the response was going to be "well i went that way because it didn't work when i..."
<daftykins> but we didn't get that.
<tgm4883> heh, yea usually we get a "I did this because I thought it would be amazballs!"
<daftykins> i suspect that one will be back after 30+ minutes of trying to create a swap partition and wondering why it's refusing
<tgm4883> daftykins: yea probably
<tgm4883> daftykins: sorry you were the target there. It's more a reflection of where #ubuntu is going. It just seems to be that the only thing that gets support is "This is how we've always done it, so you must do it this way or get no support".
<tgm4883> #ubuntu has been doing that increasingly the last few years anyway
<daftykins> hrmm can't say i've noticed that myself
<daftykins> though i don't pay too much attention to the issues i know nothing about :>
<tgm4883> daftykins: meh, I just like figuring out how stuff works so I'm willing to dig in a bit
<tgm4883> my favorite was when 12.04 came around with the switch to dnsmast and resolvconf
<tgm4883> people couldn't access certain things and rather than troubleshoot the status quo for #ubuntu was "all you have to do is uninstall dnsmasq"
<tgm4883> like that should be a valid final answer
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> first thing i do on my servers is purge resolvconf, reboot and hardcode my DNS + set static IP :D
<tgm4883> resolvconf isn't bad. It just generates the resolv.conf file. It's dnsmasq that makes troubleshooting more difficult
<tgm4883> although I fixed mine from earlier (well, figured out what the issue was)
<tgm4883> configuring static addresses in /etc/network/interfaces with dns-nameservers puts the right addresses in there anyway
<tgm4883> in /etc/resolv.conf that is
<daftykins> i thought it appended once, which wasn't ideal
<tgm4883> I believe it regenerates it any time there is a network connection change, but it's easy enough to force extra info in there (whether it's in the interfaces file or in the /etc/resolv.conf.d/ files)
<tgm4883> we ran it on all our servers without issue
 * ObrienDave gives up
<daftykins> this one needs euthanising
<ObrienDave> yup ;p
<wileee> looks like the same troll honestly
<daftykins> same as which nick?
<wileee> the one banned earlier and has had nics starting with k
<wileee> probably not slight difference, there are so many out there stopping by
<ObrienDave> k80s ?
<wileee> kidoro or something
<wileee> up till today there were Koning
<wileee> then changed to koning today
<daftykins> well i guess my first victim with the ubuntu graphics driver PPA didn't work out
<ObrienDave> that one on you? for shame ;P
<daftykins> XD
<lordievader> o/
 * daftykins groans
<pauljw> unreal...
<Limberian> Guys, hello.
<Limberian> Is there any browser plugin or anything that automatically deletes history every  hour?
<cfhowlett> why ask here?  that's a support questoiin
<Limberian> It seemed like a which browser is better discussion to me - but okay. :(
<tgm4883> OerHeks: am I taking crazy pills here or is #ubuntu just crazy
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i think that's why some of us aren't quite so idealistic, we get worn down by the masses
<OerHeks> or this makes you stronger
<daftykins> just earlier i pushed someone in the direction of a solution in another help channel, only to be told i was ignored for my attitude when i suggested that their problematic firewall software may need reconfiguring if it is to work properly
<daftykins> i swear there's what i type, then there's what people read :D
<daftykins> <daftykins> tokam: hmm, ideally you'd want another disk to backup to first
<daftykins> <tokam> ok. let's assume I did this...
<daftykins> sums it up really doesn't it :)
<Bashing-om> Yeah, Best practice forward. Protect important data - or the data is not important .
<daftykins> that kairo fellow looks like the same k* angry type from the last week
<Bashing-om> I seem to think I have seen the nick before .
<daftykins> angry Frenchman again
<daftykins> or French person, i should say
<Bashing-om> American expression : "looking a gift horse in the mouth"; Will not get one very far here !
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> indeed
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, just noticed in Debian a domain got banned beiing a honeypot. same one hops in/out in ubuntu with different names too
<daftykins> o rly
<OerHeks> or are they just joking, as reaction on the flood?
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: K; We standby for heavy rolls .
<OerHeks> "ban on *!*@ARennes-359-1-236-66.w2-2.abo.wanadoo.fr$##not-a-honeypot"
<daftykins>  -!- kmuuc [~kmuuc@ARennes-359-1-250-47.w2-2.abo.wanadoo.fr]
<daftykins> well well.
<daftykins> and now Izotr
<daftykins> clearly a trouble maker
<OerHeks> and those fbx.proxad.net i do not trust either.
 * OerHeks looks out of the window
<daftykins> Called "Ubuntu AFter INstall" - as in UAFIN a laugh - </London accent>
<tgm4883> daftykins: you should also be able to get the BIOS version from dmidecode
<tgm4883> 'sudo dmidecode | grep -i BIOS -A 5
<tgm4883> '
<daftykins> tgm4883: yep, but of course the user couldn't boot so i figured why make them :)
<daftykins> well, they could boot legacy but that's not what they're after
<tgm4883> oh didn't read back that far :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> warning, ablest is a nasty customer
<OerHeks> i know, a debian guy
<daftykins> oh :(
<OerHeks> hang in debian too man, then you notice some funny movements.
<daftykins> that could well be handy i guess
<daftykins> hrmm, should changnesia not be seeing a mount point on the EFI partition in his/her image? http://i.imgur.com/Mxzjgzl.jpg
<daftykins> or does it do that later..
<wileee> I was curious to see how this plays out, heh you got them this far.
<shabonix> Quick Question for anyone here at the moment...Currently not happy with windows 10 and all the tracking, etc that they are doing. Want to switch to ubuntu...I have two drives in my system. Boot Drive is an ssd with windows install and the other is a 500gb storage drive. Would moving files over to the storage drive, erasing boot drive, installing ubuntu, then mounting the storage drive into ubuntu be a good way of installing? 
<wileee> shabonix, I would have an external back up no matter what. That is a UEFI install most likely, have you read the wiki?
<shabonix> Partially, thats one of the main reasons I came to the irc.
<wileee> this is not really a support channel as well
<shabonix> Ok. Thanks for the info!
<wileee> try #ubuntu
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-16
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> how are you lotuspsychje ?
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> all ok here mate, have been moving to another house and internet works again now
<daftykins> huzzah!
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I had noticed the absense . New house, move'n on up ?
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<daftykins> i shall await my housewarming invite with glee
<daftykins> :>
<lotuspsychje> yep its a temp house solution rental, until we buy new house
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hello OerHeks :p
<ObrienDave> are the loony toons out in force tonight? ;P
<ObrienDave> oops, asked that a BIT early ;P
<wileee> heh, you've been schooled
<wileee> grade schooled  "rim shot here'
<lordievader> Good morning.
<tintedwindows> anybody know of an alternative linux software for cheat engine
<ubuntuser24> How many of you still use an Ubuntu version older than 14.04?
<lordievader> Not here, Kubuntu doesn't want a lot of testing done for precise.
<ubuntuser24> I never said anything about Kubuntu
<ubuntuser24> And is precise pangolin 9.04, or 9.10?
<lordievader> ubuntuser24: I know, but I am a Kubuntu tester. The only reason I might still have Precise (12.04) is to test stuff on there.
<ubuntuser24> But if Kubuntu is Ubuntu with the KDE desktop, why is Kubuntu's version number for Precise pangolin different than Ubuntu's?
<lordievader> It isn't.
<lordievader> Precise = 12.04
<Oer> lordievader +1
<lordievader> Oer: No longer a witch?
<Oer> yeah just noticed, brb
<ubuntuser24> Are more of you using Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu 15.04 than anything else?
<OerHeks> :-)
<ubuntuser24> I mean anything older than Vivid Vervet
<lordievader> I got 14.04, 15.04 and 15.10 installed on my test box. 15.10 is most used.
<lordievader> But then again, I ain't your typical Ubuntu user ;)
<ubuntuser24> So nobody uses 11.10, 11.04, 10.10, or 10.04 anymore?
<OerHeks> Nope, those are EOL, end of life
<lordievader> ^ that.
<OerHeks> no updates, no security fixes. and the servers are offline.
<TJ-> what servers are offline?
<ubuntuser24> No wonder you guys most likely don't use those releases anymore
<ubuntuser24> He means the package servers
<TJ-> They most certainly are not!
<ubuntuser24> No, the packages for 11.10 and older are unsupported
<TJ-> Everything back to Warty (4.10) is still online
<OerHeks> There is however one server running, for special purposes, you need to do some tricks to get that running > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades#Upgrading
<ubuntuser24> You are correct, but those are certainly not supported
<ubuntuser24> Pretty soon, those really old packages should be purged from archive.ubuntu.com
<OerHeks> why? it is fun, crawling trough openoffice 2.2 and such
<ubuntuser24> And what is that server, I suppose?
<TJ-> I have several older release images running, and it's just a case of a 'sed' against sources.list to insert old-releases
<ubuntuser24> OK then, you might find unstable releases in there so be careful
<ubuntuser24> I would think eventually, the old releases would get purged
<lordievader> I'm sure TJ- knows what he is doing ;)
<TJ-> :P
<ubuntuser24> Does archive.ubuntu.com ever go down for maintainence?
<TJ-> ubuntuser24: It's a cluster so shouldn't do
<ubuntuser24> Hey guys, look. The same person from ##networking is in here too, awesome :)
<ubuntuser24> Why is it fun crawling through old packages?
<TJ-> oh, it's firmwarefun24
<ubuntuser24> And I just mean the packages for anything older than 9.04 should be purged, because nobody uses 9.04 or below anymore :(
<lordievader> ubuntuser24: Heh, you'd be surprised...
<ubuntuser24> Those lazy people should at least upgrade to 12.04....
<lordievader> And what if that ain't possible?
<ubuntuser24> Then they will switch to Macs, if they had the money
<lordievader> ubuntuser24: We have a server with 8.04 running. And because we don't want to break it we cannot upgrade it. (We are working for a replacement though)
<ubuntuser24> Upgrade to Ubuntu Server 15.04
<lordievader> Like I said, not possible ;)
<ubuntuser24> Until you guys get enough money for new hardware
<lordievader> No, until the replacement is ready (which should be soon), but until that time...
<ubuntuser24> How long have a guys had that server?
<ubuntuser24> * you guys
<lordievader> Let's not talk about that... :P
<ubuntuser24> When did Ubuntu 8.04 come out?
<lordievader> 2008-04 ;) name says it.
<ubuntuser24> Then he must of had that server for 8 years, wow :)
<lordievader> It is a vm actually.
<ubuntuser24> You mean in Microsoft's Hyper-V, or virtualbox?
<ubuntuser24> And why would you be working for a replacement?
<ubuntuser24> A VM is a file, not a real computer
<ubuntuser24> Unless you are running one of those screen sharing programs or something
<lordievader> I think it is an lxc container, but I'm not sure might also be a kvm vm.
<lordievader> A vm is a virtual machine, not a file.
<lordievader> Yes, I know everything is a file in Linux ;)
<TJ-> a psuedo-file to be exact :)
<ubuntuser24> Oh, so you have a Linux server, and are using a KVM switch to control it from a remote location
<lordievader> ubuntuser24: KVM can also mean Kernel Virtual Machine, as it does in this instance.
<lordievader> ubuntuser24: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Main_Page
<ubuntuser24> Oh, so it's the Linux version of Microsoft's Hyper-V
<firmwarefun24> See TJ, now I changed my username to the one I was using on ##networking
<daftykins> 'kadiro' is today's nick i see
<OerHeks> happy sunday
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-15
<OerHeks> that smile .. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2016/08/14/usain-bolt-100m-mens-final-live-rio-2016-world-record-holder-see/
<mmeth> my face when I got nvidia drivers to work
<daftykins> but they're easy...
<daftykins> bed for me, laters \o
<OerHeks> sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall
<mmeth> optimus/prime works on ubuntu thank god
<mmeth> or thank whoever made it work
<mmeth> spent two days with tty on another distro
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> \o
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins
<DArqueBishop> tgm4883: I dunno, I still say there's an argument to be made that warning someone that what they're about to attempt will probably get them imprisoned or killed in the real world is on-topic. :-)
<daftykins> ooh i'm intrigued, what did someone do? :P
<OerHeks> he wants to nuke his luks after 3 password attempts
<DArqueBishop> OerHeks: what he actually said that he wants to nuke it when using a specific passphrase.
<OerHeks> oh right
<daftykins> oh, users.
<tgm4883> yep
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-16
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> morning all, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse :p
<ducasse> hey :) how are things today?
<lotuspsychje> great mate, what about you ducasse
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: my admin is arranging the mollie payments system on my webshop
<ducasse> i'm good, thanks :) great that the payment system is getting ready, did you get a certificate yet?
<lotuspsychje> no, not yet
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: will it influence the existing website anyhow?
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: no. you just add the cert and switch on https when ready.
<lotuspsychje> nice
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: you can also use a self-signed cert for testing.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: ill ask my admin, and go the full way tnx
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: i don't know much about let's encrypt, haven't tested the ubuntu package, that might not be considered good enough for a commercial site.
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys breakfast & work day : (
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse
<ducasse> how are things today?
<BluesKaj> fine thanks , and you?
<ducasse> good thanks, just trying to wrap my head around a _really_ annoying ipv6 issue with the ubuntu mirror i use...
<OerHeks> :-)
<ducasse> my brain hurts :)
<BluesKaj> I gave up...succumbed to the poeterring take over of my kubuntu audio setup ...pulseaudio now runs it, it became too complex to switch various outputs manually with 2 soundcards.altho i still have make changes from digital to analog for headphone output on pavucontrol
<ducasse> i gave up as well, BluesKaj - forced ipv4 for apt.
<OerHeks> Linux Torvald short id collision .. https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/8/15/445
<OerHeks> lets remove some kernel crap
<dax> surprised it took that long, it's been happening for random people for ages
<OerHeks> I heard about it too, but this is the 1st example i know
<OerHeks> hi nicom [tab]
<OerHeks> oh
<pauljw> hi everyone
<OerHeks> heya pauljw :-)
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> \o
 * daftykins slides out a set of tea mugs
<pauljw> hey daftykins
<daftykins> my office is looking a lot less like an IT bomb hit it of late :D
<daftykins> still got 5 PCs and a laptop lined up ready to go, mind you
<daftykins> sold my old sandybridge i5 laptop now to a mate, waiting on him picking it up \o/
<pauljw> :)
<pauljw> that's great, what are you going to do with all that cash and room???
<pauljw> fill the void...
<daftykins> ooh no, i'll be happy to have bare wooden floor back
<pauljw> :)
 * daftykins takes a snap
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/isfzd6zdi9x7heh/IMG_20160816_203851.jpg?dl=0
<pauljw> i recently got a desk and chair so i could move my laptop and mess off of the kitchen table, the misses is much happier for it...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> back in a man-cave now?
<pauljw> no, the living room
<daftykins> ah
<OerHeks> daftykins, and what laptop?
<daftykins> the Asus U36SD
<daftykins> i5-2430M, 8GB RAM and a 256GB SSD in there
<daftykins> giving a mate quite the deal at Â£250
<daftykins> hey lemme just fill this watercooling loop right here... https://youtu.be/c74s86RLTeM?t=371
<daftykins> >_<
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-17
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> Morn'in lotuspsychje . WB 0/ .
<lotuspsychje> hey there Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Been a slow one . Not a lot going on .. even the trolls are staying away .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Bashing-om> Turn out my lights, my party is over; it's time  for - all good things - to end . G Nite
<ducasse> morning all!
<Bashing-om> I be away for a couple of hours . I will return :)
<OerHeks> we count the hours you are not here, Bashing-om ...
<OerHeks> .. and you don't get paid, ofcourse
<pavlushka> lol
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> standard benefits package
<daftykins> the occasional...
<daftykins> !cookie | Bashing-om
<ubot5> Bashing-om: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<Bashing-om> soon as I catch up on the channel, I be back on the clock :)
<daftykins> :D
<Bashing-om> Putting my client windows back in order .
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-18
<ducasse> good morning everybody
<Bashing-om> Ahhh ,, great ,, the day crew is arriving . Hiya ducasse :)
<OerHeks> heya ducasse
<ducasse> everybody good? :)
<Bashing-om> Just 'bout to the point of retirement for the evening .
<ducasse> go get some sleep, Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> soon .. see how what I left hanging .. works out .. no bad job left undone .
<Bashing-om> Still hang'n .. but no resolution in sight . gone gone is me :)
<Kurowa> hello?
<BluesKaj> 'Morning all
<ducasse> wb BluesKaj, are you happy with the rpi3? i'm thinking of ordering one so i can use the rpi2 for experiments..
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i solved the problem with my pi3 talking to my onkyo receiver, so it's a proper music streamer now
<BluesKaj> HI ducasse , I haven't formed an opinion yet ..not sure what I'm going to do with it next  :-)
<ducasse> hi, daftykins - how's the soldering going?
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> ah i've done nothing since that motherboards capacitors
<ducasse> BluesKaj: i use the rpi2 as a media box with openelec, would be nice with a bit more oomph though
<daftykins> i always hear the pi3 is a lot faster for Kodi but i wouldn't use one personally
<ducasse> i was thinking of replacing the rpi2 with a 3, and use the 2 for electronics tinkering
<ducasse> the rpi3 still won't do hevc, which is a drawback
<daftykins> ja
<daftykins> but then HDR capable HEVC has only just been birthed really, some low power device will turn up eventually
<ducasse> yes, the openelec people are sponsored by a company that makes one - wetek something, i think. looks nice, and has a proper remote and other things the rpi lacks.
<BluesKaj> yeah , already have kodi on this pc and it works well, no need for redundancy. I'm thinking of using the rpi3 as a pc/media system for my den..I still have an ethernet connection and monitor there
<daftykins> yay wired \o/
<daftykins> ducasse: mmm i think they might even be kodi devs o0 or ex-devs
<ducasse> the openelec people are doing a good job, it does the job well.
<daftykins> nah that project died, they all moved to libreelec i heard
<daftykins> because openelec is way behind on the release front
<ducasse> news to me, last i heard was a new beta was coming?
<BluesKaj> also have an old unresueable pc that should be sent to recyling ..never seem to get around to throwing thjose things out
<BluesKaj> unrescueable even
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hoping to reduce my collection very soon
<BluesKaj> spellcheck here is hopeless
<ducasse> also have an old pc here i don't know what to do with, i've thrown out everything else. it quickly piles up :)
<BluesKaj> daftykins, oh btw I tried libreelec, seemed ok , but too retrictive for my taste ..probly a good tv box OS if that's all one needs it for
<daftykins> BluesKaj: oh yeah, i only really consider Kodi for dedicated HTPCs to be honest, a fully OpenGL 10 foot UI program for a desktop or laptop app makes no sense to me :>
<OerHeks> ... https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/powershell-is-open-sourced-and-is-available-on-linux/
<baizon> and nobody will use it :D
<baizon> bash > powershell
<Bashing-om> "ksft: " .. *me* bangs head on table again .
<OerHeks> oh, he is on 14.04 with LTS stack
<OerHeks> silly we didn't know
<OerHeks> ohhh i love frankenstein-ubuntu
<dax> I see why HWE is a thing, but it sure does make support harder.
<dax> I assume 14.04 + xenial HWE = no fglrx?
<Bashing-om> dax: No .. we are Nvidia .. have ben trying for 2 days to get the GUI to load with proprietary drivers .. uh huh .. HWE bites us back .. seems like .
<OerHeks> .. vmware..
<daftykins> dax: yeah that's my deduction, due to the kernel version + x.org, but also you'll hit legacy status cards like a .nl fella we had in -uk earlier today
<daftykins> not quite sure why they come in for support :(
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-19
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Are you where ya can assist in installing a earlier kernel in a "possible" EFI system from liveUSB ?
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: yeah
<daftykins> oof if that's an HWE you'd have to regress the rest too
<Bashing-om> lemme advise th OP in channel.
<EriC^^> oh boy, my ext hdd is starting to make the "morris code syndrom"
<EriC^^> better replace that sucker soon :D
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> i can smell bad SMART data from here!
<EriC^^> :D
<daftykins> just heading off now, g'night \o
<EriC^^> goodnight
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> have a nice day to all
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> \o
<OerHeks> hi-di-hi
<BluesKaj> hey OerHeks, ducasse
<OerHeks> hi hi ... Curl author asks Microsoft to remove 'curl' and 'wget' aliases from PowerShell (github.com)
<nacc> OerHeks: link?
<OerHeks> sorry nacc , hold on
<OerHeks> "They block use of the commonly used command line tools without providing even an attempt to offer the same functionality." ---- https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell/pull/1901 ---- "Unacceptable Changes"
<nacc> OerHeks: interesting
<OerHeks> I thought so, too.
<dax> yeah, PowerShell goes a bit overboard with default alias
<dax> aliases*
<dax> like, i can see aliasing ls to the relevant PowerShell command, but curl?
<nacc> well, the last comments make it clear
<nacc> this is the "Windows PowerShell" (built-in) aliases
<nacc> where it sort of makes sense, possibly
<nacc> so it can do all the OO stuff that makes PowerShell fancy :)
<nacc> brb
<BluesKaj> nacc, but why wouldone need it on ubuntu? Surely we have enough shell types to cover our needs
<BluesKaj> oops
<dax> (I'm talking about on Windows.)
<BluesKaj> I just have windows install so i can check/simulate problems wife's pc might bhe having, otherwisw I never use it
<Bashing-om> I am sure it is Friday in most of the world .. so why the channel soooo quiet ?
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-20
<OerHeks> hahaha http://mashable.com/2016/08/19/tiny-tugboat-man
<OerHeks> great for going up the river too
<Bashing-om> And once more .. ya going to make me look .
<Bashing-om> Looks like a great plan down stream . not so sure of the upstream result .  - where the fishing poles ?
<OerHeks> maybe salmon get stress from the tug and jump in his boat :-D
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> toet-toet
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> Hey lotuspsychje .. We be in the midst of a lull .. ya got the time for morning coffee .
<lotuspsychje> hey there Bashing-om my coffee is near me :p
<Bashing-om> Well .. I should have figgured that ! ... Make a good morn'in of it .
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys working day :p
<BluesKaj> hiyas all
<OerHeks> no milk today
<BluesKaj> hey OerHeks, EriC^^, pauljw_vm , pavlushka and all others who are awake :-)
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj :)
 * OerHeks opens one eye .. \o/ BluesKaj 
<pauljw_vm> hi BluesKaj, EriC^^ , everyone.  :)
<EriC^^> hi pauljw_vm :)
<BluesKaj> :-)
<EriC^^> OerHeks :)
<BluesKaj> anyway. managed to solve vpn connectivity on the the rpi3, gotta use a couple of terminal commands, but it works quite well.
<pauljw_vm> awesome, BluesKaj
<ducasse> what was the problem, BluesKaj?
<BluesKaj> ducasse, tbh I'm not sure , but I found a tutorial written specifically for my particular vpnserver and there were a couple of new settings for permissions and the openvpn/.ovpn files that did the trick
<ducasse> BluesKaj: hmm, well, as long as it works... i was just kind of curious why it first didn't :)
<BluesKaj> ducasse, there was an error message in the .ovpn file when I tried to connect previously, but the error had no details
<ducasse> BluesKaj: curiouser and curiouser...
<BluesKaj> ducasse, this is the tut I used: https://www.htpcguides.com/autoconnect-private-internet-access-vpn-boot-linux/ , but I didn't setup the auto-connect on boot feature
<BluesKaj> prefer to connect on my own time and various servers ...some are much better than others
<BluesKaj> ok , errands to do this aft, ...BBL
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-21
<brushdem-> install gentoo
<daftykins> ...
<daftykins> sorry was that a response to someone asking "what would be really silly?"
<ducasse> morning all
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> \o lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: i had to reinstall the trusty to xenial box update
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: totaly broken
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: not that uncommon, it seems...
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: new reinstall crashed on saving /home aswell so..
<lotuspsychje> had to install fresh
<lotuspsychje> lets hope this was lasts 5 new years :p
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: how are things in norway?
<ducasse> i'm soon going to upgrade to yakkety, i never stay that long on one version :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: wich stage is yakketty in now?
<ducasse> alpha 1, i think. i usually wait until the first beta or so.
<lotuspsychje> !yakkety
<ubot5> Ubuntu 16.10 (Yakkety Yak) will be the 25th release of Ubuntu. It is due to be released in October 2016. Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<lotuspsychje> ah october
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic yakkety
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.9134.37 (yakkety), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<ducasse> they're waiting for 4.8, i believe
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah ive read an article they wanna ditch 4.6
<lotuspsychje> im curious how unity 8 will develope
<lotuspsychje> and thrilled about OTA 13 on phone
<ducasse> i'm not too concerned about that, although the convergence thing would be nice
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<ducasse> i'd love a phone/tablet that could give me a full desktop when connected to a screen
<ducasse> just wish that desktop wasn't unity ;)
<lotuspsychje> that would be awesome
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: i really wish ubuntu would choose the way, users left more choices
<ducasse> how do you mean?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: well you know like old linux setups, where you could choose kde or gnome etc
<lotuspsychje> in the setup screen
<lotuspsychje> imagine the tablet starts that way, leave the user the choice for window manager
<lotuspsychje> or i3 :p
<ducasse> the problem with that is that the tablets etc run mir, not x11
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<ducasse> they _really_ should have gone with wayland, imho
<lotuspsychje> but i saw a kde tablet project once
<lotuspsychje> not sure if its still active
<lotuspsychje> lemme lookup
<ducasse> fedora 25 will run wayland, i read
<lotuspsychje> https://plasma-mobile.org/
<lotuspsychje> would be so nice if ubuntu could be installed on every device
<ducasse> intresting. have you seen this? http://hawaiios.org/
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> screens look delicious
<ducasse> it looks really nice, i don't know how ready it is.
<ducasse> there will probably be many options soon.
<ducasse> more promising news: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3109327/hardware/let-the-cpu-wars-begin-amd-shows-its-zen-cpu-can-compete-with-intels-best.html
<lotuspsychje> vivaldi kde tablet has been depraced..
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> have you tried vivaldi btw? been using it for a couple of days, i like it.
<lotuspsychje> yeah ive tested the other day
<lotuspsychje> not bad, but prefer my chromium
<ducasse> i'm still trying to decide, but i'll probably go back to firefox. stuck with it since the days of netscape navigator.
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/08/04/how-the-m10-tablet-can-save-you-luggage-space/
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah netscape was nice, but surely vurlernable as hell by now
<lotuspsychje> i wonder why they so proud about the Bq m10 tablet when stopped the bq phones to sell...
<ducasse> hehe, i wouldn't be running that or mosaic today, no :)
<lotuspsychje> thats really bad news for my business
<ducasse> otoh, there was a lot less in netscape that could be exploited, no js etc.
<lotuspsychje> ZTE also announced users want android over linux on devices
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: also true, was more back to basic
<lotuspsychje> but still you hear alot of exploits existing for the old style browsers like opera etc
<brushdemon> simpler tools had simpler hacks
<lotuspsychje> true
<brushdemon> more sophisticated tools have similar hacks however there is a larger footprint and more potential for exploits
<ducasse> if only flash would finally die...
<lotuspsychje> and more users using an app, more chance of hackers finding mass exploits
<brushdemon> well that would get rid of a few million issues :p
<brushdemon> that's also true
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/new-blackarch-linux-iso-lands-with-over-1-500-penetration-testing-hacking-tools-507485.shtml
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: i wonder how big a market there really is for ubuntu phones. most people who would want one are probably enthusiasts and hobbyists.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: the only problem is the most wanted android apps everyone else uses
<lotuspsychje> and users dont search for security
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: yep, it would need some big name apps to have a chance in the bigger market.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: but i can convince users, by telling how vurlnerable android is
<ducasse> there will be vulnerabilities for ubuntu phones as well.
<lotuspsychje> probably, but they will be handled much faster
<ducasse> that's true, the android update system is horrible.
<ducasse> well, it doesn't really exist at all.
<lotuspsychje> users dont mind security, until one day they personal pics are gone or shared
<lotuspsychje> when reality comes too close..
<lotuspsychje> i helped few customers with stalkin/wifi issues in the past
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/08/zte-rejects-ubuntu-phone-proposal-says-buyers-dont-want-non-android-devices
<lotuspsychje> bah
<ducasse> well, i wouldn't want a china-made phone anyway :)
<lotuspsychje> meizu is chinese
<lotuspsychje> but if its broken and you have to send back to china : |
<lotuspsychje> if one day ubuntu-touch will be installable on more devices itl get interesting
<ducasse> the m10 looks really nice, though. making it possible to install ubuntu on more devices would be a good way to get more users.
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<ducasse> \o
<ducasse> how are you today, BluesKaj?
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse. I'm fine, and you?
<ducasse> fine, thanks. raining heavily here, the cat and i are holed up indoors :)
<BluesKaj> yeah , we had terrble thunderstorms last night, went to bed with flashlights because our electricity went out about 4 times, it's back on now, but we still have storm clouds
<Dodge29_> hey
<daftykins> \o
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-14
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<enick_997> Good morning
<EriC^^> morning all
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<EriC^^> lordievader: hey, good thanks, you?
<lordievader> Doing allright here :)
<EriC^^> :)
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader, fine here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<ducasse> hi all
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - everything well?
<ducasse> 4 more days until the dark tower premiere - happy-happy, joy-joy!
<BluesKaj> fine here ducasse, and you?
<ducasse> all well :) thinking about going out and do some yard work while the weather is good.
<BluesKaj> now that the rain has stopped, and the lawn is finally dry I can finally mow the grass , it's very shaggy after a week of rain
<ducasse> the forecast says 3+ days of nonstop rain are coming up, so it's probably a good idea to do it now
<ducasse> going out, bbl
<nicomachus> anyone wanna do me a favor?
<nicomachus> Looking for anyone that has -old-dkms kernel files in /boot, and need to know which version of Ubuntu is removing them and which isn't (if any)
<nicomachus> There are some interesting things going on... background here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/616512/purging-old-kernels-fails-to-remove-old-initrd-files/647311?noredirect=1#comment1503157_647311 in that first reply and the comments on it. I am @portugalthephilosoph there
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Think'n . /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal introduced with the 3.13 kernel ??
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Nope, vivid : http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/apt/vivid/revision/193/debian/apt.conf.autoremove#debian/apt.conf.autoremove .
<nicomachus> Bashing-om: I'm not sure, the fix to remove those files was supposedly not in dkms version 2.2.0.3-1.1, which is the current version for xenial.
<nicomachus> Bashing-om: that still doesn't seem to handle the old-dkms files.
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: I would not try to appky it to older kernels . I do not have any idea of all the hooks that the scripts call when autoremove is invoked .
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: ' dpkg -l dkms ' >> 2.2.0.3-2ubu all in updated xenial .
<nicomachus> hmmm... 'dpkg -l dkms' here gives 'dpkg-query: no packages found matching dkms'. that's nice.
<nicomachus> and 'dkms --version' gives: The program 'dkms' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing sudo apt install dkms
<nicomachus> what
<nicomachus> now I'm really confused.
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Depending on what needs dkms ( display drivers ! ), might be good to install the dkms package .
<nicomachus> I'm just wondering how I don't have it... and when that happened.
<nicomachus> I know I did at one point.
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Hosed up nvidia driver install ?
<nicomachus> No nvidia drivers on this laptop.... just integrated intel graphics. My home HTPC, which also no longer has the dkms package, is running the radeon driver.
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Maybe now it is a nvidia requiremnt only ?? see: ' spt show dkms ' . Strange here that Dell owns the rights ? " Homepage: http://linux.dell.com/dkms" wow ?
<daftykins> O_O
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, https://github.com/dell/dkms/blob/master/dkms
<BluesKaj> interesting that it can be freely distributed and mofified under the free software foundation, almost seems like a contradiction when there's a copyright on it
<nicomachus> Bashing-om: yea, I'm on a Dell laptop though. So I figured it would be kinda necessary here....
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Let me go back and look at your post . I will say that I have a 3.19 kernel that is installed in 17.04 ( upgrade) that autoremove will not touch .
<nicomachus> Bashing-om: I deleted a few comments there with logs and added that dkms was removed my machines at some point.
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: In BluesKaj's link is a hint as to why " Requires bash 3 or above." .
<nicomachus> LOL, this is interesting: https://askubuntu.com/questions/938606/dwarf-fortress-starting-during-apt-get-upgrade
<daftykins> :>
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: I can buy thge 'df' explanation . As I say I have no idea of all the hooks that are called; but for sure all have to be valid ones .
<nicomachus> I just love that someone actually came up with a solution to explain it.
<daftykins> it is quite impressive to connect the dots
<daftykins> and also shows a knowledge of just how lazy users are
<Bashing-om> daftykins: But, only inquiring minds want to know :)
<oerheks> can one call this a vulnerability?
<oerheks> this is just 1 example, df
<daftykins> nah, everything can be alias'd wrong and cause drama
<oerheks> is an alias check part of clamav?
<daftykins> no idea :>
<daftykins> all AV is a joke :D
<oerheks> if not run from a live-iso, sure.
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-15
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/08/new-ubuntu-dock-first-look
<lotuspsychje> yes!
<lotuspsychje> they gonna fork dash to dock :p
<lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, how are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: just waken, cuppa coffee and thunder/rain before work
<lordievader> No rain here for a change.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: your on the train mate?
<lordievader> Today, yes ;)
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: you have 4g connection?
<lordievader> Yes, and WiFi I'm the train.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: you drive it?
<lordievader> ?
<lordievader> What do you mean?
<lordievader> I'm just commuting to Utrecht.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: oh, thought you said i'm the train, (driving it) lol
<lotuspsychje> my broter in law drives one
<lordievader> Oh, autocorrect, that whoop of be WiFi in the train.
<lordievader> Cool
<lordievader> Should*
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lordievader> Morning BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning lordievader
<lordievader> How are you doing BluesKaj?
<BluesKaj> well, thanks, lordievader, how about you?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<Bashing-om> Morn'n all . new kernel -92 and Firefox 55 on the streets for xenial .
<Bashing-om> !info linix-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> Package linix-image-generic does not exist in xenial
<Bashing-om> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.92.97 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<Bashing-om> !info firefox xenial
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 55.0.1+build2-0ubuntu0.16.04.2 (xenial), package size 41984 kB, installed size 161396 kB
<EriC^^> evening all
<Bashing-om> hey EriC^^ \o .
<EriC^^> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Loveerly rainy August day .. IRC with a clear conscious .
<EriC^^> :)
<oerheks> hi EriC^^ Bashing-om
<EriC^^> hi oerheks
<Bashing-om> oerheks: \0 . See that you are cranked up and going strong :)
<oerheks> sure, i went 50 years today :-D
<EriC^^> happy birthday :D
<oerheks> something about abraham and mustard ..
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Congrats and the best is yet to come :)
<oerheks> and... Happy 20th Birthday, GNOME! http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/happy-20th-birthday-gnome-517406.shtml
 * Bashing-om declares *nap time* :P
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-16
<lotuspsychje> good night to all
<lotuspsychje> mosquito hunted me cant sleep
<Bashing-om> In each cloud that silver linning . WB lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Cafinatting to continue on ?
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> evening ptetteh227
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<nicomachus> well I finally found a firefox add-on that hides the huge titlebar and actually works.
<daftykins> huge titlebar? where the tabs are?
<nicomachus> daftykins: no, above the tabs.
<nicomachus> Where it says "<site title> - Mozilla Firefox"
<nicomachus> it was costing me valuable real estate.
<daftykins> oh that's not a thing here
<daftykins> just tabs at the top, (window controls on the right) followed by the address bar, then the page
<daftykins> Windows version admittedly but i doubt they're different
<nicomachus> daftykins: stock: http://i.imgur.com/f7Jqt2g.png
<nicomachus> with add-on to remove titlebar: http://i.imgur.com/bXmZ3sz.png
<ducasse> that's a wm thing, which is there depending on an x11 flag
<ducasse> aiui, windows with the WM_DOCK flag does not get a titlebar, also true for certain other flags
<nicomachus> yea, it is, you're right.
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> mmm that's ugly
<nicomachus> which one? lol
<daftykins> with the bar :>
<nicomachus> yea. with the system title bar/panel/whatever you wanna call it at the top, it really just was too much. So little space for actual webpage content.
<nicomachus> Now I'm getting some odd tearing on scroll, though... weird.
<daftykins> what's your screen res?
<nicomachus> 1366x768
<daftykins> ouch
<nicomachus> yep. laptop. about 5-6 years old.
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<daftykins> hi hi! how goes it in lotus land?
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> great here on my side, what about you?
<daftykins> yeah good thanks! off to London tomorrow for a wedding though
<daftykins> not a big fan :P
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: found the right smoking?
<daftykins> hmm?
<lotuspsychje> suit :p
<daftykins> oh yeesh, i'm wearing some old rubbish i wore a couple of weeks ago to another wedding ;)
<lotuspsychje> dress?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> shirt is new, but the shoes are the same since school :D no joke
<daftykins> 16 years ago
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: we are trying to make a bullet journal for my gf
<lotuspsychje> pretty intense
<daftykins> what's one of those when it's at home? :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> its an empty book to be more productive
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> ye olde analog, with pen/pencil? :)
<lotuspsychje> to create a kind of calendar analog with more structure
<daftykins> do you mean in software? :D
<lotuspsychje> no lol
<daftykins> ooh
<lotuspsychje> write with this kind of structure= index=year=month=week=day=brainstorm
<daftykins> ah i don't have a to-do list, but it's top on my mental to-do list, to write one!
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah, but she has like thousands of notes n such
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<oerheks> hi lotus
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: ah like post-it notes scattered?
<daftykins> oerheks: \o sir
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah combined stuff
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox xenial
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 55.0.1+build2-0ubuntu0.16.04.2 (xenial), package size 41984 kB, installed size 161396 kB
<daftykins> that feeling when your browser is larger than an OS
<lotuspsychje> lol
<immu> daftykins, lol
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<oerheks> 16 mb code ..
<oerheks> oh boy
<oerheks> firefox                            158,760      installed
<oerheks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25327458/
<oerheks> google-chrome-stable               237,182
<oerheks> oink
<nicomachus> oerheks: you gotta a lotta kernels there.
<oerheks> hmm, autoremove does not fix that...
<oerheks> it did before
<daftykins> just configs left maybe? i always purge instead of autoremove so it removes all traces of old ones
<nicomachus> they are probably marked as manually installed.
<daftykins> gives nice clean output from "dpkg -l | grep linux-" then too :D
<oerheks> dpkg -l linux-{image,headers}-* | awk '/^ii/{print $2}' | egrep '[0-9]+\.[0-9]+\.[0-9]+' | grep -v $(uname -r | cut -d- -f-2) | xargs sudo apt-get -y purge # working ....
<nicomachus> heh... looks like it may have done more than he intended.
<oerheks> :-)
<nicomachus> oerheks: remove a few too many? lol
<oerheks> no, somehow i needed to reboot...
<oerheks> now i see only .32 in the /boot folder
<nicomachus> ah, you only kept 1? I too like to live dangerously.
<oerheks> i am baffled...
<oerheks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25327636/
<oerheks> autoremove does not work, script does not fix..
<oerheks> and synaptic does not show them
<immu> good nite
<nacc> oerheks: are they pinned/marked?
<oerheks> nacc, not pinned, i never done that
<oerheks> i just got back, and have time to look into it..
<oerheks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25328087/
<oerheks> i think i need to sudo apt remove --purge <kernel1> <kernel2> etc
<oerheks> done, lets reboot
<oerheks> well, booting works..
<oerheks> oerheks@oerheks-workstation:~$ dpkg --list | grep linux-image
<oerheks> ii  linux-image-4.10.0-32-generic                   4.10.0-32.36                                  amd64        Linux kernel image for version 4.10.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
<oerheks> ii  linux-image-extra-4.10.0-32-generic             4.10.0-32.36                                  amd64        Linux kernel extra modules for version 4.10.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
<oerheks> ii  linux-image-generic                             4.10.0.32.32                                  amd64        Generic Linux kernel image
<oerheks> oerheks@oerheks-workstation:~$
<oerheks> hmmmmm?
<oerheks> http://i.imgur.com/wcTDHrH.png
<nacc> oerheks: or 'marked' (as manually installed)
<oerheks> nacc, nope, always upgraded properly.. that is what is odd about this
<oerheks> but now i must live with 1 kernel only
<nacc> oerheks: even stranger
<Bashing-om> oerheks: risky busuness that ^ :(
<oerheks> jups, fresh install 17.04.
<nacc> oerheks: that seems like the underlying script didn't save two kernels
<nacc> oerheks: although if you manually purge kernels, that script is irrelevant
<oerheks> Now i removed the others manually, and upgraded grub
<oerheks> dpkg log http://termbin.com/swhg
<oerheks> not sure what to look for
<oerheks> history.log http://termbin.com/w09o
<Bashing-om> oerheks: So far so good . looking at history now .
<oerheks> well, if someone encounters the same, i should file a bugreport
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Just joining - what is the issue you are experiencing ? By the way, did the kernel headers get removed ?
<oerheks> Bashing-om, i got a lot of old kernel parts, and autoremove did not do its job..
<oerheks> lets see the log from here
<oerheks> 19.12 and on .. https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/08/16/%23ubuntu-discuss.txt
<oerheks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25327636/
<oerheks> now i removed them manually, but i have 1 kernel in boot :-D
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Clean up the cruft ' dpkg -l | awk '/^rc/{print $2}' | xargs sudo dpkg -P " ( thanks to krycek for the simplification ! ). If I may say so . make sure the package manager is consistent and then install the -30 kernel .
<oerheks> installin -30 now
<oerheks> yay
<oerheks> restart now .. i'll do
<Bashing-om> oerheks: I do this a lot in support . I have just a bit of experience . What shows now ' ls -al /vmlinuz* /initrd.img* ' ?
<oerheks> looks oke to me http://paste.ubuntu.com/25328678/
<oerheks> uname -a
<oerheks> Linux oerheks-workstation 4.10.0-32-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Tue Aug 8 12:10:06 UTC 2017 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Nope "/initrd.img.old -> boot/initrd.img-4.10.0-32-generic " where .old is point to the new jernel . What have we in /boot/ ' ls -al /boot/ ? and consider redoing the sym;inks to point to the correct kernels ?
<oerheks> i am considering reinstalling totally..
<oerheks> odd thing is that i botted the latest kernel..
<oerheks> c/booted
<Bashing-om> oerheks: A clean install == a clean mind :)
<oerheks> i already have backed up my stuff, and still have the usb with 17.04. maybe i wait for the next kernel, see what happens
<Bashing-om> oerheks: There is more that I do not know about grub than what I do know :)
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> linux is fun, so much to explore
<oerheks> with windows i had to search online, here i just walk through synaptic and get lost for hours
<oerheks> i just found out i had kodi installed too, never took the time to start it
 * oerheks is ugly rich
<Bashing-om> This had kept me entertained now for about 10 years now . And I do not see it slowing down at all in the future :)
<daftykins> :>
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> hello sir! how do?
<Bashing-om> Hiya daf ! Still painting ? Goes well ?
<pauljw> doing good, you?  been a while!
<daftykins> hehe cor, i don't know who to answer first - here goes, off to London tomorrow for a wedding, exterior is pretty much all painted now but i'm awaiting a meeting to produce yet another report the insurance adjusters want
<daftykins> just sat with a bottle of local cider and the Royals baseball game against the Oakland A's :)
<pauljw> :)
<Bashing-om> Hoz the Cardinals standing this year ? - not kept up but they be mu favorite .
<daftykins> hmm not sure, i think they swept the Royals in a series not long ago
<daftykins> http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index.jsp
<daftykins> Cardinals, middle o' the pack
<daftykins> but only a game in it!
<daftykins> Houston Astros are doing seriously well though this year
<daftykins> but apparently only 25% of teams who are first place actually end up winning the WS
<daftykins> anything fun stopped us seeing you, pauljw? or have i just had my eyes closed?
<pauljw> nah, not much, wife and i did go to the Mopar Nationals in Ohio this past weekend, that was fun.  but mostly just not hangin around here as much lately.
<daftykins> we were all going to send out a search party!
<daftykins> TJ even showed up!
<pauljw> nothing personal, just not sitting at my puter all the time.... :)
<pauljw> no way!!
<pauljw> he doing okay?
<daftykins> i know! he's been buried under house development work still, as predicted
<pauljw> ah...
<daftykins> he said he barely remembered how to fire up his IRC client :D
<pauljw> heheh
<daftykins> i'm sure winter will bring him back in for some sweet bug fixing
<pauljw> most likely
<daftykins> here we are, one more out and the Royals win by one run
<daftykins> sweep complete i think :>
<pauljw> heard the big news in ubuntu land?  they're adding a trashcan to the desktop.  you'd think the world was coming to an end by the reaction to something so trivial..
<pauljw> nice
<daftykins> hahaha no i've missed that one!
<daftykins> is that on whatever new default desktop is being switched to?
<nacc> daftykins: yeah, i think so
<pauljw> i guess
<pauljw> just made me laugh
<daftykins> what are the tears over?
<pauljw> having an icon on the desktop
<daftykins> that's configurable? :D
<pauljw> for some strange reason, i thought that's what the desktop was for...
<daftykins> i wonder if some strange character will make a comparison to a real office
<pauljw> i would think it's configurable, just going to default to having one.
<daftykins> "it's on the floor in the corner, not on top beside my keyboard!"
<pauljw> heheh
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-18
<donofrio> how do I get a trace of firefox when it's running (something that will help developers for bugs and such?)
<donofrio> just kill -3?
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-19
<Bashing-om> jtrain_: kali is it's own thing . Might get better support for kali in their infrastructure .
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hi ya . Stirring a bit early ?
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om yeah dang mosquito's :p
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: main sleeping again?
<lotuspsychje> !acpi
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: been a slow Friday . Not much happening anymore .
<lotuspsychje> morning
<lotuspsychje> !info gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock artful
<ubot5> gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (source: gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock): Ubuntu Dock for GNOME Shell. In component main, is optional. Version 0.2 (artful), package size 53 kB, installed size 528 kB
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-unveils-the-ubuntu-dock-here-s-what-it-looks-like-on-ubuntu-17-10-517435.shtml
<lotuspsychje> yayyy
<lotuspsychje> https://didrocks.fr/2017/08/18/ubuntu-gnome-shell-in-artful-day-5/
<immu> i don't like the current dock
<lotuspsychje> immu: what you mean
<immu> the new dock
<lotuspsychje> immu: what dont you like?
<immu>  Ubuntu Dock for GNOME Shell
<lotuspsychje> immu: what specific dont you like about it?
<immu> its nothing like unity side bar, the new dock is like a dead shell
<lotuspsychje> gonna test it right away
<lotuspsychje> updating first
<lotuspsychje> immu: unity will die a silent dead in the future
<immu> unity is what made Ubuntu awesome , even tho they tried to move on Unity7
<lotuspsychje> immu: i loved old ubuntu with gnome a much, seems like we going back to basics now
<immu> i cannot stand the current Gnome
<lotuspsychje> immu: so, your planning to switch to wich at 18.04?
<immu> not sure i am parallel testing solus3
<lotuspsychje> kk
<immu> i am so fused to unity, that i just can't stand any other
<lotuspsychje> immu: thats why they created this dash to dock fork, to make unity lovers more used to gnome
<immu> its not enough
<lotuspsychje> immu: you can tune as you need
<lotuspsychje> immu: remember unity is also a gnome fork
<immu> yeah lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> wow big update 300mb
<immu> i like the layout of solus3 budgie taskbar
<immu> since i come from Windows it doesn't affect me much at all
<lotuspsychje> looks neat https://solus-project.com/2017/08/15/solus-3-released/
<immu> gnome + mate
<immu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlTr_S8BHqY
<lotuspsychje> im gonna stick to vanilla ubuntu desktop :p
<immu> cool
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu dock is now showing from gnome tweak
<immu> yes
<lotuspsychje> aha found settings on dconf-editor
<lotuspsychje> i like the dock
<lotus|artfulbox> http://imgur.com/a/q7Yem
<immu> sweet
<BluesKaj_> Hiyas all
<oerheks> hello BluesKaj_
<oerheks> and immu
<BluesKaj_> Hi oerheks
<BluesKaj_> depressing here, raining for the last 3 days
<oerheks> hmm last night here too, i had read about it so i didn't water the garden
<immu> hi oerheks
<de-facto> hmm (ubuntu dock) == (dash to dock) - (extension settings)? Why not package full dash to dock directly instead?
<de-facto> i see there is gnome-shell-extension-dashtodock package
<de-facto> they want to separate the schema?
<immu> goodnight time to retire for sleep
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-20
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> new dock, tweaked size and set to bottom with dconf: http://imgur.com/a/q7Yem
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> morning BluesKaj, all well?
<BluesKaj> 'Morning ducasse. fine here, just some insomnia, but I'll nap later. How about you?
<ducasse> quiet morning, thunderstorm expected.
<BluesKaj> supposed to be perfect BBQ weather here :-)
<ducasse> yay, burgers for dinner? ;)
<BluesKaj> NY striploins
<ducasse> sounds good :)
<donofrio> o.0
<oerheks> ObrienDave :-D
<ObrienDave> sorry, just had too ;P
<oerheks> This story just went unbelievable..
<oerheks> poor tom
<oerheks> working on it for hours
<ObrienDave> well, have fun. I need to get ready for the eclipse
<oerheks> really, this xenial xerus dude makes random sentences in multiple channels
<oerheks> drunk
<Bashing-om> getting close to "ignore" :(
 * oerheks warps Bashing-om a choco-icecream
<Bashing-om> Yummie ! Was in need of a lift-me-up :)
<oerheks> eclipse gallery RT http://spaceweathergallery.com/eclipse_gallery.html
<donofrio> ok I'll ask here - anyone that cares about x and has time if you know how to fix this errors when I try startxfce4 - https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsBlZbBf72iNm7JmP8ZmaQiQ77NWfQ - it's 14.04  and wsl on w10 fwiw
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-13
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<tomreyn> buongiorno
<lotuspsychje> come stai sir tomreyn
<tomreyn> awesomish
<lotuspsychje> !certification
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje , how are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> all fine here lordievader tnx and you?
<lotuspsychje> raining here now
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Doing good here. It was raining a little bit here, but I think it has stopped already.
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<ducasse> morning lordievader - all well?
<lordievader> Doing good here, how are you?
<ducasse> all good, thanks - glad the heat seems to be over and gone
<lordievader> Same here, this is a much better temperature.
<ducasse> yup, this i can deal with, over 30 i can't.
<tomreyn> hi there. it was suggested in #ubuntu-devel that i should ask / point out here that it'd be great to have a note on changed log file locations on bionic as per bug 1786701
<ubot5> bug 1786701 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "Changed log locations for graphical services" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1786701
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: this is a wishlist?
<tomreyn> oh crap i'm still sleepy, meant to post this to #ubuntu-desktop :)
<lotuspsychje> ah :p
<tomreyn> i consider it a bug really.
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> want me to affect tomreyn ? as this concerns everybody?
<tomreyn> i dont want you to affect me, if that's the question :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i mean affect the bug :p
<blackflow> afaik that only happens if something something kms driver, so xorg is running unprivileged. in my case, nvidia proprietary, xorg is still run as root, so the logs go /var
<tomreyn> if you also consider it a bug please do add 'also affects me'
<blackflow> I don't tho. This has been true (for xorg logs) for quite some time, not specific for bionic
<tomreyn> blackflow: and while nvidia is still widely used, from a technical / Ubuntu POV it uses a legacy approach and is pretty much the only thing which does now.
<tomreyn> blackflow: right, it's lbeen like this in earlier release. but an lts changelog should also consider lts to lts upgraders and opint out news for them.
<blackflow> legacy, you mean /var ?
<tomreyn> (it already does in several places)
<blackflow> but I think this was the case even on 16.04
<blackflow> run nouveau and logs go to ~/.local
<tomreyn> no, not on 16.04
<blackflow> run proprietary, xorg is root, logs to /var
<tomreyn> right
<blackflow> well, I could be wrong about xenial then
<tomreyn> hmm, and maybe i am, i do have ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.1.log (but not *.0.*) on this 16.04.5
<tomreyn> running amdgpu
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: found redhat similar bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1582839
<ubot5> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1582839 in hostapd "netlink: 'hostapd': attribute type 213 has an invalid length" [Unspecified,Closed: errata]
<leftyfb> that's just a warning though.
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: wich kernel are you running atm?
<leftyfb> 4.15.0-30-generic
<leftyfb> it's the HWE kernel
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1615774
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1615774 in linux (Ubuntu) "iwlwifi queue stuck, Microcode SW error detected, "ieee80211 phy0: Hardware restart was requested" [Medium,Expired]
<leftyfb> I've seen all these bugs
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: #8 has solved it?
<leftyfb> well, since that link is not valid, no
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: have you tryed a tail on syslog, disable & enable wifi again, lets have a look what it all spits out?
<leftyfb> I'll try it in a bit. I'm going to swap out the chipset from an Intel to an Atheros
<daftykins> very disappointing if intel continue to be a terrible choice even now
<leftyfb> oh, those 7260's are garbage
<daftykins> bet they work fine with Windows (:
<daftykins> 2:2 stream dual band -ac is plenty
 * leftyfb sigh
<leftyfb> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/dKw2j93zkX/
<leftyfb> I hate wireless so much my teeth hurt
<leftyfb> that's all there is for wireless lines in syslog
<daftykins> blows my mind that over 10 years later and wifi is still a challenge to desktop Linux
<leftyfb> it's got very little to do with linux. Wireless is garbage on Windows as well
<daftykins> firmware load failed, hmm
<lotuspsychje> we hear users fixxing alot of realtek & atheros issues on git leftyfb with latest firmwares
<daftykins> no it's really not actually :)
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah you are right about this, this fighting with this realtek bug on xenial for a customer
<daftykins> ah yeah
<leftyfb> lotuspsychje: That error I posted above is with the linux-firmware backported from bionic
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: the realtek worked on default for xenial, then few updates later borked
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: thats something that should not be happening anymore
<daftykins> nothing worse than regressions
<lotuspsychje> tj- also said it, devs should concetrate on a stable base
<lotuspsychje> not the latest bling
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: past has showed us realtek & atheros mostly bug on different kernel, or firmware version
<leftyfb> yeah, I'm going in a different direction. Don't have time to mess with junk chipsets
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> evening pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> is it out yet? XD
<lotuspsychje> nop :p
<lotuspsychje> we can play a trivia here pragmaticenigma tomreyn owning the channel again :p
<pragmaticenigma> ??
<lotuspsychje> j/k
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: i'm only working with Hamilton currently, there's others who need cookies, too
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: I asked about the LTS upgrade ... because this showed up in my updates today: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PMw5DxKD8q/
<lotuspsychje> lets c pragmaticenigma
<tomreyn> New release '18.04.1 LTS' available.
<tomreyn> omg omg omg
<lotuspsychje> aha
<pragmaticenigma> !dance
<lotuspsychje> did you get the window pragmaticenigma
<tomreyn> Prompt=normal
<tomreyn> ^ hehe i tricked you
<pragmaticenigma> no, I'm already on 18.04.1 ... haha
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> you wont laugh when 2000 users come nagging here lol
<tomreyn> they wont come to -discuss
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ah thats how you gonna play it
<tomreyn> i'll be on holidays as soon as LTS upgrade is enabled ;)
<pragmaticenigma> unless someone tells them of our secret club house (gives lotuspsychje *the look*)
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> even the bots stay out the hardcore nest pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> Oh, ubottu doesn't dance apparently... we should fix that
<pragmaticenigma> there's bots in here?
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> hmm havent seen them this evening
<pauljw> hi everyone
<Bashing-om> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue540 is on the streets :)
<daftykins> \o/
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Oh What a relief it is !
<daftykins> that's good work right there :)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Halp ! .. It is a real chore to get this done . Need people with writing skills to make up article summaries real real bad .
<daftykins> ah i'd love to lend a hand but my paid work has been quite active of late, once i get home i'm worn out!
<Bashing-om> daftykins: We do get that a lot .. just not enough time on a 24 hour day :P
<daftykins> too true
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I get real frazed out getting UWN together as I too have a life to deal with that is not on this keyboard .
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-14
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Main in same shape as you left it .
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> slow all over - not much going on makes for a slow night .
<tomreyn> so 16.04->18.04 is live since 13 Aug 2018 23:42:29 GMT, hope it goes well. *crosses fingers*
<lotuspsychje> yess
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey morning lordievader
<lotuspsychje> all good on your side lordievader
<EriC^^> morning lordievader
<lordievader> Doing good here. How are you guys?
<lotuspsychje> i did some rack filling on our new garden house
<lotuspsychje> making some space in our house
<lotuspsychje> !in
<ubot5> #ubuntu-in is the channel for Ubuntu in India
<lotuspsychje> whats the indonesia trigger again
<daftykins> !id
<ubot5> join ke #ubuntu-id untuk membahas ubuntu dalam bahasa Indonesia
<daftykins> i just google "2 letter country code" :)
<lotuspsychje> ah tnx daftykins
<daftykins> np :D
<JimBuntu> !en
<ubot5> The main Ubuntu IRC channels are English only.  For a complete list of channels in other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<pauljw> hi everyone
<lordievader> Hey pauljw
<pauljw> hi lordievader
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<pauljw> good here, how about you?
<lordievader> Doing allright, trying to migrate some databases (that don't want to ð )
<JimBuntu> ugh, don't we all love DB migrations?
<pauljw> :)
<lordievader> Well the good thing is that it is the last MySQL db. After that I can ditch MySQL (or actually MariaDB).
<lordievader> ð
<JimBuntu> lordievader, What are you moving to... Mongo/Dynamo/Other?
<lordievader> Postgres
<JimBuntu> !bugs
<ubot5> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please report it using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<daftykins> "we may get to it inside ~5 years"
<JimBuntu> rawtaz, Hi. I don't work for canonical, nor can I speak for them. I do agree that claiming to be the "leading OS for..." seems to be a bit over the top, without backing up the reasoning.
<JimBuntu> I can say, it's a very popular distro, but I don't know what metrics show it as being in the lead at the moment.
<rawtaz> i'll contact ubuntu and see what they say about it :-)
<JimBuntu> rawtaz, https://www.zdnet.com/article/whats-the-most-popular-linux-of-them-all/
<JimBuntu> This article isn't too old and also explains a bit about how it can be difficult to figure out which Linux is in the lead... well.. once you ignore Android.
<rawtaz> indeed :)
<rawtaz> which just makes it even more unlikely that there's an actual basis for what theyre stating on that site
<JimBuntu> While I don't like it, I chalk this up to the same thing so many entities do... #1 bank, #1 hotdog/etc
<rawtaz> you mean that more or less everyone and their cat's dogs put stuff like this in their marketing?
<JimBuntu> rawtaz, Well, a whole lot do. That doesn't make it right... and I suppose they can say that it's based on some really skewed survey from once upon a time.
<rawtaz> yep
<rawtaz> there's lots of lies and dirty marketing going on
<leftyfb> rawtaz: or there's not and they just haven't published the data to back it up
<rawtaz> yep, could be. in that case it should be easy for them to answer :)
<daftykins> i think you should focus on the more important aspects in life
<rawtaz> daftykins: indeed. equally much ubuntu should provide a reference to their claim
<daftykins> no - and please note, ubuntu is the 'product', Canonical is the company
<rawtaz> daftykins: FWIW im trying to do a release upgrade, and it's just borking things up. cant blame me for not trying to focus on the more important things ;)
<rawtaz> daftykins: yes, i know
<daftykins> then why are you using the wrong name?
<daftykins> oh i can, 'cause you're in here discussing the above :)
<rawtaz> daftykins: you seem to have a problem with me questioning something which has an extremely high degree of being a statement without a valid basis for it
<rawtaz> daftykins: sorry for using the wrong name, i should of course write canonical instead
<hggdh> rawtaz: one of the issues (already sort of mentioned here) is that there is no way to collect reliable data for who uses what distro; the processes used so far are all biased in some way
<hggdh> (as far as I can see)
<rawtaz> hggdh: i agree :)
<rawtaz> hggdh: but if you cannot collect data that can tell you with a reasonable level of certainty that you are the leader, then naturally you should claim to be, right?
<rawtaz> and if you do have data that reasonably suggests you are, then fine. thats what im going to ask them about
<rawtaz> ill just mail then and see what they say. perhaps the have a great answer
<rawtaz> i asked in #ubuntu and the discussion was moved here, that's all
<hggdh> rawtaz: yes, and good that it moved, this question is not on-topic for #u
<rawtaz> great
<rawtaz> i will keep you guys posted about this important matter ;)
<lotuspsychje> wich matter
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: what are the basis for the assertion "Ubuntu is the most used Linux distro"
<rawtaz> lotuspsychje: haha, never mind ;) im trying to establish what metrics .. yeah that ^
<lotuspsychje> rawtaz: canonical started recording sysinfo now, in the near future more specific info will rise on that matter
<lotuspsychje> hey nacc
<rawtaz> right. thats great. but it'll still be hard to correlate that with them being the leader. it'll be more like "the leader in number of measured usage" :D
<lotuspsychje> rawtaz: you can never count exact every box in the world right
<lotuspsychje> rawtaz: we can only count the data we have
<rawtaz> yeah, youre right
<lotuspsychje> rawtaz: if 10 guys install gentoo boxes offline, nobody knows of, is +10 popular for gentoo
<nacc> lotuspsychje: hiya
<tomreyn> leftyfb: if dnsdns really is in charge for managing the PTRs for this network, then it would turn out internet censorship in iran is not actually intentional.
<leftyfb> tomreyn: they're not :)
<tomreyn> i hope so.
<leftyfb> tomreyn: I used to be authoritative for the 13 ip's I get from my provider, but then they decided one day to not support it anymore. I was kinda silly walking through a "tech" on the phone how to create the PTR record and even sillier asking him to type out this long nonsense record I used as a vhost for IRC for many years :)
<tomreyn> hehe, on the phone omg
<leftyfb> yeah, it was dumb
<leftyfb> I've still got a couple of them setup too
<tomreyn> "so, sir, you said this new product name of yours i should type here in DNS is spelled  H - four - X - X - zero - R - three - D - dot - C - O - M, right?"
<leftyfb> basically :)
<daftykins> xD
<leftyfb> tomreyn: I used to also set these records up for the largest shared hosting company on the planet ... i've done it a few times :)
<tomreyn> oh you told me about that company, makes sense that you were managing PTRs as well.
<leftyfb> of course, we did manage it all through a DB. But I did understand the inner workings from doing it on my own.
<tomreyn> did bind already support a DB backend back then? i think that's relatively new, isnt it?
<nacc> and the s. hits the f. with l1tf :)
<leftyfb> tomreyn: we used powerDNS
<tomreyn> oh, i was thinking this is somewhat young, too
<tomreyn> ok, powerdns 2.9.1 released late 2003, i guess this can be old enough
<lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> hello
<lotuspsychje> !isitoutyet | pragmaticenigma
<ubot5> pragmaticenigma: Yes, it's out! Party in #ubuntu-release-party :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<pragmaticenigma> umm
<pragmaticenigma> that was for april :-(
<pragmaticenigma> !ltsupgrade
<ubot5> Upgrades from 16.04 LTS will not be enabled until a few days after the 18.04.1 release expected in late July.
<pragmaticenigma> that's the one that should be changed
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: what would you suggest the factoid says?
<Bashing-om> pragmaticenigma: Would be nice to have the bot respond with current info : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-August/004556.html  .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: tomreyn told us this morning lts path was live
<nacc> pragmaticenigma: you can suggest it yourself
<nacc> pragmaticenigma: !ltsupgrade is ...
<pragmaticenigma> I have no idea what it should say... I'd go with 18.04 LTS Upgrade tool has been released
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: If the LTS path is open , we got to pull the UWN article .
<pragmaticenigma> with a link on how to trigger it
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i would let it stay, its from last night 23h
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: next weeks news also comes?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: In my mind that the LTS article will have to be pulled befire next Monday's publishing .
<Bashing-om> befor*
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes
<lotuspsychje> Press Alt+F2 and type  update-manager -c   into the command box.
<lotuspsychje> Update Manager should open up and tell you that Ubuntu 18.04 LTS is now available.
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Yup! dfumagalli: " As of now, the upgrade path is officially available. No need to add "-d" or other tricks any more. I am upgrading to 18.04.01 right now." .
<lotuspsychje> !yay
<ubot5> Glad you made it! :-)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: discuss the article with the news team right, not my decide :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: UWN: All commnents, suggestions, critique  & other stuff ... always welcomed !
<lotuspsychje> ok mate
<lotuspsychje> i would wait a week for lts path
<lotuspsychje> more users, more help, newer news :p
<lotuspsychje> they just started low today
<lotuspsychje> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1063954/ubuntu-18-04-1-lts-very-very-slow-boot
<lotuspsychje> bit like my systemd bug..
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: We work alla the week long gathering what we can .. come Friday we do the write ups .. Sunday eve make up the wiki .. and Monday eve - hope all is squared away - and we publish what we have .
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
<lotuspsychje> cu another timezone
<nacc> i'm assuming we should send l1tf discussion to #ubuntu-hardened, right?
<pragmaticenigma> here we go again... why do they think it's appropriate for a lyrics bot
<nacc> i've notified ops manually as well
<pragmaticenigma> is it that hard to make one's own room to play with that stuff?
<nacc> dunno
<hggdh> nacc: welcome to the whackamole game :-)
<nacc> hggdh: lol
<nacc> hggdh: has this one been going on long?
<pragmaticenigma> not very hard to make your own room
<hggdh> a few weeks, mostly off, one week mostly on
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: are there honey pot rooms that might help?
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: not really. This is the rickrolling person
<pragmaticenigma> oh no... now tomreyn has turned into one :-(... sad sad day
<hggdh> we do have a few channels wide open, but mostly so we can have a feeling on how things are going
<pragmaticenigma> this beeing at the freenode level?
<leftyfb> nacc: alee is a troll/spammer
<leftyfb> nacc: it's the "despacito" troll from earlier
<nacc> leftyfb: thanks
<nacc> oh good lord, just kick them hggdh :)
<hggdh> until I am convinced he is the musicguy aka steel aka stove etc, no, cannot
<el> would you prefer this nonsense or the lyricsbot. if we kick him he'll bring back the lyricsbot
<nacc> lol
<nacc> hggdh: i was mostly joking, sorry was in poor taste
<el> although i'm fairly sure what's about to happen is the lyricsbot
<nacc> lol
<hggdh> so am I. But... innocent until lyrics, and so on
<daftykins> was it a good song at least?
<el> the "bot"'s options are despacito, rickroll and something dre. so no.
<hggdh> daftykins: not my genres for sure
<el> i'm also fairly sure the "bot" is just him pasting into a second client that has ratelimiting to prevent getting banned for flooding
<leftyfb> curious how far he's going to take this
<leftyfb> shocker: "<alee> Guys, i dont have any problems, it was a prank"
<hggdh> now
<el> shocking he just got k-lined for harassment
<hggdh> elsewhere?
<hggdh> just when I was going to act...
<el> hggdh: yep. i was ignoring it until he decided to throw in wasting project time
<el> hggdh: you can get him next time, i gotta go dentist now
<hggdh> :-)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-15
<Bashing-om> New kernel is out.
<Bashing-om> !info linux-image-generic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.32.34 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 15 kB
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !ltsupgrade
<ubot5> Upgrades from 16.04 LTS will not be enabled until a few days after the 18.04.1 release expected in late July.
<lotuspsychje> <lotuspsychje> !ltsupgrade is The upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04.1 is now available, if you do not get offered for the upgrade: Press Alt+F2 and type update-manager -c into the command box. Please make a backup before upgrading.
<lotuspsychje> forwarded, please test during the day
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Hey Bashing-om, lotuspsychje , ducasse
<lordievader> How are you all?
<lordievader> Does the 4.15.0-24-generic kernel have the TCP DoS vulnerability?
<lordievader> Not that the host running that kernel is directly connected to the internet.
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all well today?
<ducasse> dunno about that vuln, i'm afraid
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<ducasse> hiya BluesKaj - how goes?
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, doing well here, and you?
<ducasse> ok here, thanks - a bit chilly today
<BluesKaj> still warm here, forecast is for 27 and sunny
<ducasse> only 19 here
<BluesKaj> that's still comfortable
<daftykins> i'll take the lower for sure :D
<daftykins> hey BluesKaj - good visit with the kids over the weekend?
<BluesKaj> yup
<BluesKaj> daftykins, had a great time ...trying to recover :-)
<BluesKaj> altho my laptop screen crapped out
<BluesKaj> so i wasn't able to chat herein the mornings...everyone sleeps till 8 except me
<daftykins> doh!
<daftykins> heh if i got up at 8 i would shock a lot of people ;)
<BluesKaj> could have use my phone, but it's a pita to type on
<BluesKaj> used
<daftykins> mmm i have the same feeling, capable of SSHing to my home box to attach to screen and irssi, but don't really wanna do it :D
<BluesKaj> I have an irc client on the phone ...at least I did, can't recall the name atm, think I used it once
<daftykins> mmm a lot of the ones i used in the past haven't been updated in forever so are no doubt vulnerable in one way or another
<BluesKaj> '/me nods
<lordievader> Having a bit of silence is also nice once in a while.
<daftykins> mmm, some nice offline time
<daftykins> BluesKaj: so you're getting no picture / no backlight now on the laptop is it?
<BluesKaj> just a grey scree, or white , depends on how I move the screen away or towards me...the connection from the HW seems broken
<daftykins> ah yeah, iffy cable
<daftykins> a reseat might be enough
<BluesKaj> connected to a monitor and I get a login , but the desktop doesn't show my original settings , so there's more wrong with it than just the screen.
<daftykins> ooh-err
<pauljw> hi everyone
<daftykins> morn \o
<pauljw> hey daftykins :)
<daftykins> it's a veritable party already in here
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> looking at a new phone anyway, don't think a new laptop is my future anymore
<daftykins> i still find they last longer :D even if the OS maintenance is greater
<BluesKaj> yeah my last 2 laptops lasted only about 5 yrs and this one crapped out right ontime :-)
<daftykins> were they the cheaper end of the spectrum?
<BluesKaj> well mid range for the lenovo G500, my latest...the others were HP and Acer low ends
<daftykins> oh i've seen a couple of those, i'd still call them low :D
<daftykins> plastic shell with all the bits taped inside xD
<BluesKaj> altho, i have to admit that I wasn't impressed with lenovo build quality ...the G500 has a wide range of HW options so it's price can be anywhere from $600 US to $850
<BluesKaj> I got it on sale for $500 US
<BluesKaj> daftykins, depends on what one's definition is of low vs high I guess
<daftykins> *nod*
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<lotuspsychje> !ltsupgrade
<ubot5> Upgrades from 16.04 LTS will not be enabled until a few days after the 18.04.1 release expected in late July.
<pragmaticenigma> howdy
<lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma
<lotuspsychje> ive requested trigegr this morning pragmaticenigma
<lotuspsychje> !ltsupgrade is The upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04.1 is now available, if you do not get offered for the upgrade: Press Alt+F2 and type update-manager -c into the command box. Please make a backup before upgrading.
<lotuspsychje> now someone to add it :p
<daftykins> could be forever!
<blackflow> I had to harass people in #ubuntu-irc to get !snaps  added :)
<blackflow> !snaps
<ubot5> Snaps are containerised software packages similar to flatpaks or appimage. For more info, see https://snapcraft.io
<tomreyn> i think you need to talk to pici
<lotuspsychje> ah nice fix blackflow saw it added on newest factoids
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: it was ok to request few times, until ops see it
<blackflow> lotuspsychje: weird it wasn't added already, with 'buntu betting so hard on snaps
<lotuspsychje> true that blackflow
<lotuspsychje> alot of new ones come out surely
<tomreyn> the !snaps factoid makes a good addition. :) it should also point to #snappy
<lotuspsychje> good idea tomreyn, could you request blackflow ?
<lotuspsychje> nacc also needs to forward them there
<lotuspsychje> always
<blackflow> tomreyn: there's snappy separately
<blackflow> !snappy
<ubot5> Ubuntu Core is a rendition of Ubuntu with transactional updates using "snappy". For discussion and support, please visit #snappy and see http://www.ubuntu.com/snappy/
<lotuspsychje> ah right
<lotuspsychje> so snaps to explain and snappy to forward?
<blackflow> but uh... that terminology is a mess. snappy is the tool but also the distribution....
<blackflow> snaps and snappy aren't necessarily 100% related
<blackflow> one could use snaps without ever touching snappy the distro.
<lotuspsychje> thats true, ubuntu core runs also on IOT etc
<BluesKaj> unfortunate choice of words
<daftykins> s/runs/walks/ ;D
<lotuspsychje> then we have flatpaks :p
<blackflow> and appimage :)
 * BluesKaj just uses the generic install, no snaps or flatpaks or sandboxing of any kind
<lotuspsychje> well the regular user with ubuntu software wouldnt know the difference
<lotuspsychje> he sees the software and installs it
<lotuspsychje> but once installed, we have to forward to the maintainer
<nacc> lotuspsychje: who do i need to forward where?
<daftykins> i believe he means snap users with issues need to go to the maintainer of the snap
<nacc> yes, i always do that
<nacc> or at least try to; if i know they are using a snap :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats what i meant
<lotuspsychje> nacc: we were discussing !snap vs !snappy
<nacc> ah
<nacc> yes i never understood why they were different
<tomreyn> upcoming ubuntu.com relaunch http://www.ubuntu.com-pr-3899.run.demo.haus/
<tomreyn> OpenSSH Username Enumeration  - http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2018/q3/124
<tomreyn> since v2.3.0
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: Pich ! .. MS says they have a biggy too : https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/08/14/ubuntu-updates-for-l1-terminal-fault-vulnerabilities that ubuntu has a patch .
<tomreyn> Bashing-om: MS as in microsoft? hows that related to the L1TF link you posted?
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: The micro-code .. for Intel based systems .. best I recall .
<tomreyn> yes L1TF affects pretty much all intel systems. the monthly intel swiss cheese bug.
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: Opps .. yeah not MicrroSoft at all .. my bad .. poor memory .
<tomreyn> so is mine, all the time.
<blackflow> tomreyn: oh you posted already, I just did in -hardened
 * tomreyn 1st! ;-)
<blackflow> :)
<tomreyn> blackflow: as you were tlaking about sarnold's presentation at debconf the other day: did you also watch the cryptsetup one?
<blackflow> tomreyn: not yet
<blackflow> tomreyn: this one?  https://debconf18.debconf.org/talks/77-cryptsetup-in-debian-tips-tricks-and-future-plans/
<tomreyn> looks like we might *finally* get some of those long awaited features, like proper puttyd integration ini initrd and actually working scripts for multipele alternative dm-crypt authentication mechanisms
<tomreyn> yes
<tomreyn> he's a DD, so they're working on busters' schedule
<blackflow> oh that'd be nice. I know the latter is very much a PITA for a lot of admins
<tomreyn> unfortunaltey this means we'll only have it for the next LTS
<blackflow> unless SRU'd ?
<tomreyn> that'd be great but i'll believe it when i see it
<tomreyn> it'd be a feature SRU, which i think are rare
<tomreyn> maybe there'l be a snap ;-P
<blackflow> heh
<Carbonme> Hello
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-16
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !ltsupgrade
<ubot5> Upgrades from 16.04 LTS will not be enabled until a few days after the 18.04.1 release expected in late July.
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all well, thanks, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here.
<lordievader> Anything interesting planned for today?
<ducasse> dark clouds today, maybe we'll get some of the rain we've been promised
<ducasse> no major plans, think i'll start reading some books i picked up at the library, and might have to take a quick trip into the city centre
<ducasse> how about you?
<lordievader> Work, work, work.
<pauljw> hi everyone
<ELQEYNN> How did the Zulus, of all people, come to develop their own Linux distro?
<lotuspsychje> ELQEYNN: please no jokes here
<lotuspsychje> yeah he wined same question yesterday too
<leftyfb> I know https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/nm3CgHj4B7/
<lotuspsychje> right
<leftyfb> It's ridiculous that the ops love to play the same game every time a troll acts up. Like this time is going to be different.
<lotuspsychje> they never change
<lotuspsychje> trolss are for life
<leftyfb> Not always, but most of the time. And I've been pretty good determining this for the past 20 years I've been op on other channels
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb for ops in #ubuntu!
<leftyfb> These ops on the other hand don't seem to be able to determine a troll after 200 lines of garbage being posted to a channel or literally begging to be banned
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<leftyfb> apparently that'll never happen. I've been told by multiple existing ops that I'll never be one. Also I haven't heard any sort of official response to my application
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: UWN says there's a new vote for council
<leftyfb> I won't be getting my hopes up.
<leftyfb> Though at the very least they certainly need more
<leftyfb> It would be great to add a few from here
<lotuspsychje> there should be an easy vote system or so
<leftyfb> oh, don't assume anyone besides the exiting ops will be voting
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> morning BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pragmaticenigma> 'lo
<pauljw> hi pragmaticenigma
<ducasse> wb BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse
<ducasse> how are you today?
<BluesKaj> I'm fine, how about you ?
<ducasse> all good, still waiting for the rain we were promised today
<BluesKaj> no rain predicted here 'til next week
<BluesKaj> forest fires all around us
<ducasse> scary
<BluesKaj> quite a distance away, but it's smokey depending on wind direction
<hggdh> only members of the Ubuntu IRC Members team in LP (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-members) can vote for the IRCC
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, Good morning... also, please put out your forest fires as we don't need any more smoke over here.
<BluesKaj> JimBuntu, send help :-)
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, International aid will go to whoever hasn't finished putting out their own fires first. It seems like NA is on fire.
<BluesKaj> most help is probly already in California
<BluesKaj> we have 20 firefighters from Mexico helping here
<BluesKaj> yeah, British Columbia, Alberta, Northern Ontario , California are burning
<JimBuntu> Dear Mexico, please send more firefighters, and ask your neighbors if they can spare some too.
<JimBuntu> There was an outbreak in one or more of the North Eastern USA states, but I think they got that under control pretty quick.
<ducasse> greetings, JimBuntu
<BluesKaj> 143 fires in BC, we have 44 in NOnt
<JimBuntu> I saw some interesting pictures the other day where the smoke could be seen stretching basically from the West coast nearly to the East coast.
<JimBuntu> Hiya ducasse
<JimBuntu> re-open the bigger game season, to get a permit, you have to do 1 day helping the firefighters first. I'm sure the fires are pushing all kinds of animals out of where they should be.
<pragmaticenigma> We're getting some interesting sunrises and sunsets because of the fires out west. Most mornings and afternoons have had some vivid red hues because of the smoke in the air
<BluesKaj> well, duty calls, doing some cleanup in our garage/studio after a summer of dust and bug infestation...later gents
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> xenial box at my aunt has working realtek network card again
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.133.139 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<lotuspsychje> what current hwe kernel for xenial again?
<nacc> !hwe | lotuspsychje
<ubot5> lotuspsychje: The Ubuntu LTS enablement stacks provide newer kernel and X support for existing LTS releases, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<nacc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack#Kernel.2FSupport.A16.04.x_Ubuntu_Kernel_Support
<nacc> specifically
<nacc> should be 4.4 and 4.15 only on 16.04 now
<lotuspsychje> nacc: same as bionic? saw indeed auto kernel cleanup 4.15..something
<nacc> lotuspsychje: yes, typically the case (3 months after each release, LTS get HWE stack)
<lotuspsychje> ah tnx
<JimBuntu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/RollingLTSEnablementStack
<nacc> there's also -edge or whatever, but i tend to ignore it
<lotuspsychje> so that makes sense, xenial updates made the realtek work again after months on 4.13
<lotuspsychje> gonna add it to bug report
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1769386
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1769386 in Arch Linux "Cable network does not get recognized anymore, wifi works" [Undecided,New]
<lotuspsychje> tnx nacc JimBuntu
<lotuspsychje> lets hope she can use the realtek a bit longer now
<lotuspsychje> bionic upgrade window also showed up, so nicely
<tomreyn> what's trhe current workaround for nvidia prima on bionic?
<tomreyn> *prime
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-prime
<ubot5> nvidia-prime (source: nvidia-prime): Tools to enable NVIDIA's Prime. In component main, is optional. Version 0.8.8 (bionic), package size 8 kB, installed size 50 kB
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: when installing the nvidia driver, prime should also be installed, for cards that allow optimus
<lotuspsychje> but we having alot of users with GTX cards getting stuck on black screens on current bionic driver
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-driver-390
<ubot5> nvidia-driver-390 (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-390): NVIDIA driver metapackage. In component restricted, is optional. Version 390.48-0ubuntu3 (bionic), package size 368 kB, installed size 1066 kB
<lotuspsychje> .48 gives alot of problems
<tomreyn> my understanding (not sure where i have it from or whether it's still correct) is that prime currently doesn't work on bionic (due to the nvidia company not producing drivers which work reliably with current linux versions).
<tomreyn> ... or not in time
<lotuspsychje> i havent encountered optimus issues yet in main on bionic tomreyn you?
<tomreyn> i think a ppa was mentioned, and that there is work under way to enable users to disable the discrete graphics entirely so at least the integrated graphics can be used reliably for now.
<lotuspsychje> the main problems on optimus in the past were, they need to match the right nvidia driver for the card (driver working best)
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: yes, someone else had similar issues, we worked around it by making linux ignore the hardware at boot
<tomreyn> and i think i've seen a couple more reports about prime setups not working with 18.04 in #ubuntu lately. but not sure how they were solved, or whether.
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: ill keep an eye on those specially ok
<tomreyn> i dont run nvidia anywehre, so don't have good experience there
<tomreyn> thanks
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: what i have seen most as fixing now is: 390.77 396.48 from graphics ppa & the nvidia drivers from website
<tomreyn> what is "graphics ppa"?
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: ubuntu graphics ppa sorry
<lotuspsychje> or oibaf
<tomreyn> this one? https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<tomreyn> probably
<lotuspsychje> yes
<lotuspsychje> and same launchpad for oibaf
<tomreyn> thanks, oibaf i know, just didnt know there was a canonical ppa for nvidia
<lotuspsychje> handy when default things temporary dotn work
<pragmaticenigma> !ltsupgrade
<ubot5> Upgrades from 16.04 LTS will not be enabled until a few days after the 18.04.1 release expected in late July.
<pragmaticenigma> hehe
<tomreyn> :-/
<lotuspsychje> didnt came tru, dang
<lotuspsychje> lemme try again guys
<lotuspsychje> <ubottu> Your edit request has been forwarded to #ubuntu-ops.  Thank you for your attention to detail
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: remember wich driver version arpad has?
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: no, but it should be somewhere in their two termbin posts
<tomreyn> [    73.496] (II) NVIDIA GLX Module  390.48  Wed Mar 21 23:42:56 PDT 2018
<lotuspsychje> ok tnx
<pragmaticenigma> sucks to be ask... I had the exact same issue with a drive... worked fine until Ubuntu took control of the machine
<pragmaticenigma> I solved it... too bad from them
<pragmaticenigma> for*
<lotuspsychje> he's monologueing
<pragmaticenigma> They're impatient and expecting someone to have the answer in an instant
<pragmaticenigma> Mom prolly bought 'em a 'puter for their b-day
<lotuspsychje> and more, they expect to be how they think
<pragmaticenigma> It's not a BIOS issue. And I know they didn't do as I had asked, because the eject command would have given them feed back that would have helped trouble shoot... same with dmesg which they refuse to provide
<pragmaticenigma> if only ioria was in here
<lotuspsychje> indeed pragmaticenigma just tested on my dvd-less netbook: instant error
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: also known troll ubu..
<leftyfb> not really a troll, Just very uneducated
<leftyfb> and a bit of a pain
<lotuspsychje> lol
<pragmaticenigma> Can we turn back on +R again for the room?
<lotuspsychje> then it will be even more dead pragmaticenigma
<hggdh> nacc: I think this was enough
<nacc> hggdh: yeah, sorry if i escalated
<nacc> they have most disparaged ubuntu in my interactions with them over a few days
<hggdh> nacc: you did not.
<nacc> honestly never heard someone say they couldn't find the bug tracker :)
<hggdh> I have, but all of them quickly found themselves the correct link, and then it was just trying to learn to report a bug
<nacc> yeah
<nacc> i could see that, but they weren't even to that point
<nacc> they also asked why we couldn't just use what FreeBSD had built for some package
<nacc> all rather strange
<hggdh> indeed
<nacc> and they're back
<hggdh> but their questions have almost always been bordering the weird
<hggdh> and... I am pretty sure they will add me to their /ignore list. It will be fun
<nacc> heh
 * hggdh grabs some popcorn
<nacc> lol
<leftyfb> :)
<leftyfb> I'm all riled up from a "discussion" from our makerspace. I might enjoy this a bit
<daftykins> https://media.giphy.com/media/dnP2VxYVlW2NW/giphy.gif
<daftykins> relevant :) if you can excuse the commonplace illiteracy style
<hggdh> :-)
<leftyfb> tada
<tomreyn> nacc: launchpad new account registration is apparently broken currently. i was able to reproduce what was stated in #ubuntu
<nacc> tomreyn: i see
<nacc> yeah i saw your comments #lp
<tomreyn> oh ok
<nacc> hopefully cjwatson or wgrant respond
<nacc> i no longer have much power to do anything about it :)
<tomreyn> we shall see, earlier or later someone will surely handle it
<daftykins> nothing like the irony of a bug in the bug reporting account reg
<tomreyn> it's a system, systems fails occasionally, it's unpleasent in this case but it cant be prevented really.
<nacc> it's a *complex* system too
<nacc> which makes it an invariant that there will be afilures
<nacc> it's a long tail of them, arguably
<leftyfb> looks like installing from pip is broken too :/
<leftyfb> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/N3dMFPGQhY/
<daftykins> let's not forget the line of work we're all in when stating the obvious :)
<nacc> heh
<leftyfb> he's gonna be mad
<leftyfb> unless it's just an issue on my end with my container
<leftyfb> guess it's just a container issue
<leftyfb> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/KhybFYwbBx/
<leftyfb> there's some weird order of operations with purging/installing subliminal and it's deps with apt/pip, but it eventually worked
<leftyfb> ok, i'm out ... cyas :)
<daftykins> o/
<tomreyn> quote form #ubuntu-kernel: "I'm seeing files disappearing on my btrfs system on 4.17 (a few each day). I guess I'll revert to 4.15 and see if that is affected too."
<tomreyn> i know why i prefer ext4
<daftykins> :S pretty much never heard of anyone with a smooth sailing experience with btrfs
<nacc> lol
<daftykins> i'm gonna start reading it as 'butter file system' from now on, i think
<nacc> that's how it was pronounced by most when it was introduced
<hggdh> yes. And it seems it is behaving pretty much like warm butter
<daftykins> :>
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-17
 * tomreyn prefers "Be tar! FS" as in data converting into a hot black swamp, wizardry gone wrong.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !ltsupgrade
<ubot5> Upgrades from 16.04 LTS will not be enabled until a few days after the 18.04.1 release expected in late July.
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: and different IP, so not much right now to check
<lotuspsychje> allrighty, tnx anyway
<hggdh> since yesterday they have been in about 5 times
<lotuspsychje> seems like a supybot with url catcher or so
<hggdh> you know, I am getting tired of these pseudo-arians (that don't even know that Persians were the origianl Arians) and their idiotic white-supremacy thingie
<hggdh> sometimes I try to forget all history and try to be understanding and all, but these folks should just be binned
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<hggdh> perhaps I am personally affected by this all
<hggdh> but hell, screw it.
<Bashing-om> hggdh: An affront to human dignity .. is an affront to human dignity .
<hggdh> yes. People tend to forget that we are all the same, all himans
<hggdh> so keeping detached is rather hard
<hggdh> yet
<hggdh> we are all the same
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<hggdh> worst of it all, my country is now getting to be
<hggdh> no, getting *back* to be overly "racist"
<lotuspsychje> good we have ubuntu to unite
<lotuspsychje> attract likeminded ppl is the only way
<hggdh> yes. And Shakespeare in tempest -- Oh wonder, how beautous Mankind is
<lotuspsychje> you cant make a deal with ppl that dont think along
<lotuspsychje> racism is so childish, like a kid with a toy
<hggdh> sort of. I may think different from you -- for example, you would like us, ops, to be more aggressive
<hggdh> but we have, basically, the same goal
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<hggdh> (and, perhaps, I shouldn't have partaken from so much wine)
<lotuspsychje> the point of view is always seen from the person
<lotuspsychje> not many can plave themselfs in one other
<lotuspsychje> place
<hggdh> agrred. Our own prejudices and experiences
<lotuspsychje> racism and egoism are closely related
<lotuspsychje> the fear of loosing personality...
<lotuspsychje> does weird things to ppl
<hggdh> yeah
<lotuspsychje> anyway its time fro eggs n bacon here
<lotuspsychje> and warm coffee
<hggdh> for me, it is much more complex, given that we *did* lose a lot of family in the holocaust
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: i see..
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: have a nice lunch/whatever :-)
<lotuspsychje> tnx breakfast :p
<hggdh> heh. Weird hous we do keep
<lotuspsychje> eat also a snack with your wine hggdh
<lotuspsychje> might digest a lil lighter :p
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<hggdh> yeap. Will do, then... bed. to die, to sleep, perchance to dream
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<immu> hi @EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi immu
<immu> how are you doing @EriC^^
<immu> how should i tag you?
<EriC^^> good thanks you?
<EriC^^> no need for @
<immu> aaah
<immu> where are others? i was on vacation?
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^, immu , the others will usually join when there's activity in the chat
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj
<immu> hi BluesKaj
<immu> wait let me switch to gnome for Solus
<immu> b rb
<BluesKaj> guess he drank the PSI-jack kool-ade over at ##linux
<BluesKaj> :-)
<BluesKaj> tried Solus already , didn't do much for me
<immu> back EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> howdy
<pragmaticenigma> if it isn't spammers, it's script kiddies
<lotuspsychje> jesus, its that time again pragmaticenigma :p
<immu> hmm
<lotuspsychje> !hotkeys
<ubot5> Keyboard shortcuts can be set in System -> Preferences -> Keyboard Shortcuts. If your multimedia keys don't work with that, try the 'keytouch' package, explained at http://keytouch.sourceforge.net/ - See !Keyboard for changing layouts. A list of keyboard shortcuts for Unity is available at http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=2209015&seqNum=3
<pragmaticenigma> I wish we still had a !recomendation trigger... or whatever that trigger was for opinion spurring questions
<lotuspsychje> you mean !discuss pragmaticenigma ?
<pragmaticenigma> no
<lotuspsychje> !opinion
<lotuspsychje> what was it about exactly
<JimBuntu> It used to be !poll
<pragmaticenigma> I think it was !best
<pragmaticenigma> yeah, JimBuntu got it
<lotuspsychje> ah yeah remembered best
<JimBuntu> It's gone now though pragmaticenigma , I have found many commands that are no longer there
<lotuspsychje> is it still asked much?
<pragmaticenigma> Just happened a moment ago in main
<JimBuntu> Can we start a collection plate to buy ubottu a new SSD?
<pragmaticenigma> why?
<JimBuntu> So ubottu can have all the commands again
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> lotus computers can provide one, for the right price $$$
<pragmaticenigma> I don't think the size of the SSD is the issue
<lotuspsychje> JimBuntu was joking :p
<pragmaticenigma> mmm k
<pragmaticenigma> too early in the day for me to process jokes
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<JimBuntu> I was joking that OPs must have removed commands to save room. I really don't know why they would remove them, unless it is based on room or total command count restrictions
<BluesKaj> a lot of ubottu  commands are linked the info trigger now ...never looked into the diff between them
<BluesKaj> linked to
<pragmaticenigma> !info polls
<ubot5> Package polls does not exist in bionic
<pragmaticenigma> !info es
<ubot5> Package es does not exist in bionic
<pragmaticenigma> info seems to only be for packages ... not sure I understand what you mean BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> pragmaticenigma, most ubottu commands are are linked to packages afaik
<pragmaticenigma> never noticed a correlation
 * BluesKaj shrugs
<ducasse> aiui !best and others were removed as they were considered too crass or slightly offensive
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.133.139 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<tomreyn> hey leftyfb, that's just a screenshot that was posted in #ubuntu
<leftyfb> tomreyn: ugh, my bad. I missed his first post
<hggdh> ok
<leftyfb> With the recent activity, and not noticing their first post, it looked like someone joining and only posting a link to an imgur.
<tomreyn> thanks for clarifying, i wasn't sure whether i had missed something relevant.
<pragmaticenigma> i shutter to think what they're running on that box
<lotuspsychje> wb pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> thanks
<lotuspsychje> nice tool tomreyn
<tomreyn> i didnt write it ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> nite guys
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-18
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> good morning
<EriC^> morning all
<blackflow> Lol! Y'all seen this youtube vid linkspammed in the main chan? wth!
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<pragmaticenigma> so would like to see the reaction of craig___ when they realize they're not the only one that want's that handle
<t3hyoshi> That'll be harsh
<pragmaticenigma> so far they have not gone to #freenode ... so I'm guessing they'll be hunting for a bit
<pragmaticenigma> sadly, the handle they desire currently appears to be in Montreal Canada, while their current location appears to be washington DC USA
<t3hyoshi> I see. T'would be fun. And this is why you register nicks
<pragmaticenigma> I think it is registered... I'm watching #freenode now
<pragmaticenigma> okay... #freenode is creepy... you only see what the ops say... everyone else is muted and can only talk to ops
<t3hyoshi> Odd
<pragmaticenigma> guessing with spam issues, they're trying to reduce the noise
<tomreyn> it's been like this for 2 or 3 weeks now, due to the spam
<tomreyn> it +m
<tomreyn> *it's
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<pauljw> hi everyone
<sonicwind> hey lotuspsychje, pauljw
<lotuspsychje> hey sonicwind
<pauljw> hi sonicwind :)
<lotuspsychje> !info earlyoom
<ubot5> earlyoom (source: earlyoom): Early OOM Daemon. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0-1 (bionic), package size 17 kB, installed size 55 kB (Only available for linux-any)
<lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma
<lotuspsychje> slowly pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> slowly?
<lotuspsychje> in main
<pragmaticenigma> huh?
<lotuspsychje> #ubuntu
<pragmaticenigma> you're speaking in fragments
<pragmaticenigma> no context
<lotuspsychje> support is going slowly in #ubuntu, the last 30min a bit better
<pragmaticenigma> oh
<pragmaticenigma> did jennie ever get further assist on theirs... after a failed attempt to unmount, i stopped... before I made things a mess
<lotuspsychje> just joined an hour ago, didnt see jennie
<pragmaticenigma> ha, about an hour ago is when I jumped off to work on my home improvement projects
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: unattended upgrades has now auto kernel cleanup
<pragmaticenigma> I'm aware, but that isn't enabled by default
<lotuspsychje> think it was enabled on bionic
<pragmaticenigma> I saw a prompt during install... though I use the mini.iso to do my installs
<lotuspsychje> ah
<pragmaticenigma> documentation is non-specific if it is included by default, and whether it is enabled by default
<lotuspsychje> you like mini?
<pragmaticenigma> ufw is installed by default, yet is not enabled until the user requests it
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> lets see if its mentioned here
<lotuspsychje> !kernelcleanup
<ubot5> For information about removing old kernels to free up space on /boot, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RemoveOldKernels
<pragmaticenigma> mini.iso is just a CLI installer, that fetches packages from the repos with the most up-to-date version... not to confuse with the minimal install
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-19
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> good morning
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<JimBuntu> wb BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning JimBuntu
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> Client: HexChat 2.14.1 â¢ OS: Ubuntu "bionic" 18.04 â¢ CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8250U CPU @ 1.60GHz (800MHz) â¢ Memory: Physical: 7,5 GiB Total (6,1 GiB Free) Swap: 2,0 GiB Total (2,0 GiB Free) â¢ Storage: 27,4 GB / 260,1 GB (232,7 GB Free) â¢ VGA: 8086:5917 @ 8086:5914 â¢ Uptime: 6h 58m 7s
<lotuspsychje> my new toy BluesKaj ^
<BluesKaj> nice lotuspsychje :-)
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yours was also i5?
<BluesKaj> yes it is
<lotuspsychje> cool
<BluesKaj> plenty fast and capable to handle my needs
<lotuspsychje> yeah same here, turbo
<sonicwind> happy Sunday
<BluesKaj> I hope so,,, so far so good :-)
<blackflow> mmmmh Sunday sundae!
<lotuspsychje> hey sonicwind
<lotuspsychje> hey blackflow
<blackflow> o/
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: waky waky mate its party in #ubuntu lol
 * lotuspsychje makes a warm cuppa coffee ready
<hggdh> #ubuntu has gone +r for now
<BluesKaj> short term filter for long term gain
<blackflow> hggdh: due to that LRH stuff?
<hggdh> yes
<blackflow> I've put that on ignore, didn't see if it was still going on, I guess it is.
<blackflow> weird that the irc daemons in 2018 can't do global pattern matched filtering....
<hggdh> pattern against what? You only know what is going to be displayed *when* it is displayed
<BluesKaj> the nicks and IPs keep changing with those bot attacks
<blackflow> BluesKaj: I've put the "LRH OFFICIAL" pattern on ignore
<blackflow> and I'm surprised that freenode can't do the same, drop such messages before they're propagated to clients. the previous spam wave was also verbatim reposts of the same message over and over.
<hggdh> again, this only works because your client monitors *your* channels. The message is, still, received
<BluesKaj> they stopped the bots in ##linux chat., didn't ask what they did tho
<blackflow> yes and my point is, how come Freenode can't do that when relaying the messages
<blackflow> (note I said irc daemons, not clients)
<hggdh> it stopped on ##linux because they set a quiet on all unregistered users
<pragmaticenigma> blackflow: to scan every message prior to broadcast to the network would increase latency so high, no one would want to use this network
<blackflow> I seriously doubt that.
<BluesKaj> hggdh, don't think so
<hggdh> (mode +q $-a: -- and this quiet is in place since March 2017, at least)
<hggdh> BluesKaj: send a /mode +q there to see it
<blackflow> pragmaticenigma: what Sigyn does is vastly more computationally intensive as she's correlating posts across different chans from same nicks/users in order to detect spamming and she does it just fine. Yes, I'm calling a bot She in respect to actual Sigyn.
<pragmaticenigma> blackflow: but Sigyn also is setup as a client on the network, not on the hosting IRC servers. Therefore, Sigyn/Drone need to see the message prior to handling it.
<hggdh> blackflow: again, Sigyn *reacts* to channel output. It does pre-censor
<blackflow> yes, I know, I was just comparing the workloads. doing a simple strcmp while relaying, before the messages are sent out, wouldn't introduce significant latency, not on this network at least.
<blackflow> well anyway, that's the only place to stop spam like this.
<pragmaticenigma> blackflow: that's assuming the spam campaign doesn't notice they're getting muted at the server level, ramp up their campaing to basically DDOS the network, but ultimately flooding out their messages
<blackflow> assuming if they could do that, and then for some reason not doing that already.
<pragmaticenigma> cause at the moment their messages are getting through, and they actually want people to see them
<pragmaticenigma> ikonia: nooby...whatver their name.. constantly thinks they're so smart finding bugs
<sonicwind> dumb question... if you're looking at a thread on community.ubuntu.com, is there a way to see the most recent replies first? I don't see one.
<sonicwind> I'm not signed in either, but I think you should be able to do that without needing to sign in.
<pragmaticenigma> often advanced features are hidden behind a login to avoid abose. forums do that to prevent bots and scanners from hammering those features accidentally.
<pragmaticenigma> s/abose/abuse/
<EriC^> evening all
<phill> Hey guys need a new laptop ideally want a touch screen, 15", core i5 8th gen,.ssd any suggestions?
<phill> I'm in the uk
<lotuspsychje> phill: alot of brands will work fine on that hardware
<phill> Lo
<phill> * lotuspsychje, yeah, but it's a lot of money just on a chace
<lotuspsychje> phill: not sure how touch does work on 18.04 though didnt test myself
<lotuspsychje> phill: i never liked the idea of touch & laptop combined
<lotuspsychje> for touching, i use my gf
<lotuspsychje> erm a tablet :p
<phill> lotuspsychje: I had a hp on vista. Hand writing recognise i
<pragmaticenigma> phill: about the only tricky one about that spec is the touchscreen. touchscreen support in linux is spotty as the vendors don't have a standard they adhere to
<phill> *recognition was good
<lotuspsychje> phill: i would go for regular laptop, maybe put own ssd in like samsung 860
<phill> pragmaticenigma: yeah, was hoping for some one to put a hand up and say I've got this
<phill> lotuspsychje: was looking at entroea
<phill> * entroware
<lotuspsychje> yeah not bad brand
<phill> Please excuse my fat fingers on my phone
<lotuspsychje> wich country do you live
<phill> Uk
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> anyway bed time here
<phill> It's my only machine, so don't really want anything less that 15"
<pragmaticenigma> phill: those look like reputable machines
<phill> pragmaticenigma: yeah, a slight premium, but for a 'native' Linux machine it's worth it.
<phill> Don't end up lining M$ pockets then.
<pragmaticenigma> phill: sadly, there's still a chance you are... but that's a topic for another day
<pragmaticenigma> phill: what I did with my last machine was spec'd out the machine I wanted. Got the specs tuned exactly how I wanted... then found a Dell at a local computer store for nearly half the price. I ended up with the Dell... Imaged windows to a backup drive, wiped and installed Ubuntu.
<pragmaticenigma> the dell had exactly the same parts, but half the cost. since it was the exact same parts manifest, I knew everything would work with Ubuntu
<pragmaticenigma> sometimes the MS tax is worth it, to get a much cheaper machine
<phill> Having said that I need a windows VM for Dec work, so I guess it's swings a d roundabouts.
<pragmaticenigma> yes, if you need a windows VM, then you will have a valid liscense for it
<daftykins> pretty sure licensing doesn't work that way
<phill> Looking at the i5 https://www.entroware.com/store/aether is the Â£20 upgrade to mvne worth it?
<phill> *nvme
<daftykins> a PCI express SSD over a SATA one is worth it yes
<daftykins> NVMe is the protocol layer atop a PCIe one
<phill> daftykins: ta.
<Bashing-om> Getting settled back in :) .. Back from the threat of thunderstorms .
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-12
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<marcoagpinto> heya
<marcoagpinto> the demon!!!!!!!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<EoflaOE> Hello marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> hello
<marcoagpinto> I am brain-dead
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> Did everything go well? Mine goes well.
<marcoagpinto> I am glad I spent ~3 hours yesterday revising my thesis before going to work, because today I won't focus on it
<EoflaOE> Nice.
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> today starts the truck drivers of dangerous substances strike
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> so, Saturday it was a chaos at the supermarket with people trying to buy everything
<marcoagpinto> fuel may end if the stikes makes impact
<EoflaOE> OK. On my area, there are no problems except one: You see a supercar driving fast until a driver saw people in front, and tries to do a brake.
<marcoagpinto> ohhhh
<marcoagpinto> my Dropbox says "syncing"
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> maybe there is some issue
<marcoagpinto> it has been on that status for a minute or so
<EoflaOE> Still not finished syncing?
<marcoagpinto> no
<marcoagpinto> the dropbox server may be having issues
<marcoagpinto> but for years that it was working well
<EoflaOE> Is the client updated to latest version?
<marcoagpinto> it updates all the time
<marcoagpinto> because they are always releasing new versions
<lotuspsychje> : o
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaaa
<marcoagpinto> what was my error message?
<marcoagpinto> here it appeared "disconnected"
<marcoagpinto> but on the other server I was on
<marcoagpinto> and the sync just finished
<lotuspsychje> netsplit marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> ahhhhhh
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> thank you, lotuspsychje!
<marcoagpinto> well, I only have cola for one more glass
<marcoagpinto> then, I am out of cola
<marcoagpinto> :(
<marcoagpinto> the supermarket is under building so things changed place and I no longer know where the cola is
<marcoagpinto> there was a refrigirator close to some checkouts with cold drinks, no there is none
<marcoagpinto> no=now*
<EoflaOE> hi lotuspsychje and marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaa... I have run out of cola!!!!
<marcoagpinto> I must go to the store
<lotuspsychje> hi EoflaOE
<EoflaOE> How is the kernel going?
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> back from the postoffices + cola store
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I had to go pick a letter
<marcoagpinto> the old computer science professor is still alive... I was worried because for some 10 years that he hasn't replied to e-mails, so I sent him a letter
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<luna> hi
<JimBuntu> wow, that's an old bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/313514         It sounds very interesting, but I haven't read enough to figure out exactly how this could even be fixed and be useful too.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 313514 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "MASTER: evdev driver ignores keycodes > 255" [Wishlist,Invalid]
<lotuspsychje> JimBuntu: daniel needs new info, as he probably saw too much discussion on it instead of real bug info
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj! Hello!
<BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<lotuspsychje> bug #1839852
<ubot5> bug 1839852 in linux-hwe (Ubuntu) "perf broken on hwe kernel 5.0.0-23" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839852
<lotuspsychje> seems like we getting a big -23 bug collection
<OerHeks> lotuspsychje, i posted yesterday>  "I had to turn up the brightness and it stopped"  ...?  https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/cojwj8/i_was_running_ubuntu_18042_on_lenovo_thinkpad/
<lotuspsychje> oh yeah sorry, didnt look yet holdon OerHeks
<OerHeks> np
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: for my case, this happens on desktop first, when i able to logout, gdm also flickers
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: but i dont have flickering at plymouth yet
<lotuspsychje> hey Peanut
<Peanut> Hey - just read the topic, this is probably also the wrong place ;-)
<lotuspsychje> maybe volunteers have experiences with compiling here, feel free to discuss
<lotuspsychje> everything ubuntu related here Peanut
<Peanut> Oh, I thought this was 'non-support' questions.
<Peanut> Anyway, here goes:
<Peanut> Hi folks - I've built the 'audacious' and 'audacious' plugins from source (apt source audacious, apply a small patch, dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -nc, sudo dpkg -i). This results in two packages: audacious, and audacious-plugins. Both with the same version number as the currently released. When I apt-update, it always wants to update audacious-plugins, and I don't understand why?
<Peanut> So compiling and building the package works fine, my question is why apt prefers the repository version for the one, but is happy with the local build for the other package.
<pragmaticenigma> Peanut: If you're building from source, you will need to uninstall the application from apt first. Apt does not track what you install, also, when you manually install things (unless you directed it otherwise) they usually go into /usr/local/ which apt does not monitor
<pragmaticenigma> otherwise, in your build configuration file, you would need to identify a unique version number that is higher than the version supplied by apt
<Peanut> pragmaticenigma: Thanks for your reply. This build didn't go into /usr/local/, because I used the Debian/Ubuntu tools to make a proper package. The thing that puzzles me is that the system is happy with the audacious package, but wants to replace the audacious-plugins package, despite each having the same version as in the repository.
<Bashing-om> UWN591 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue591 .
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-13
 * tomreyn admires TJ-'s patience
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> !info kismet bionic
<ubot5> kismet (source: kismet): wireless sniffer and monitor - core. In component universe, is optional. Version 2016.07.R1-1.1~build1 (bionic), package size 1203 kB, installed size 4833 kB
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<marcoagpinto> Heya!!!! A cola demon!
<pragmaticenigma> WARNING! WARNING! This a cola free zone!!!
<OerHeks> systemctrl status colad.service
<lotuspsychje> lol
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj!!!! Hello!!!!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
<hggdh> morning folks
<BluesKaj> 'Morning hggdh
<marcoagpinto> hey hggdh
<lotuspsychje> hey hggdh
<marcoagpinto> "of Fire and Light"
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> good metal
<lotuspsychje> https://fedorapeople.org/~jwrdegoede/flickerfree-videos/workstation-bgrt-logo.webm
<lotuspsychje> flickerfree on 19.10 to come
<OerHeks> fedora ... you?
<lotuspsychje> no, its linked from omgubuntu
<lotuspsychje>  News from omgubuntu: Ubuntu 19.10 Will Offer a Flicker Free Boot (For Some Users, Anyway) <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/d0od/~3/n3hdU9dFcuQ/ubuntu-flicker-free-boot>
<lordcirth> While that's cool, it's way down my priority list...
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaaa... I need to reboot... my PhD software fragmented all the RAM :(
<lordcirth> fragmented your RAM?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> pacman did it
<daftykins> o0
<marcoagpinto> back!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> the tool is so heavy on system resources :(((((
<marcoagpinto> 4 GB is too little for it
<tomreyn> it must have been a boot sector virus!
<tomreyn> on drive a:
<marcoagpinto> tomreyn: ????
<tomreyn> i'm joking about old computer issues.
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> because A: and B: are floppy drives
<marcoagpinto> :)
<tomreyn> yes, and for the most part, boot sector viruses, are a thing of the past, too.
<marcoagpinto> yes
<tomreyn> at least currently.
<tomreyn> https://serverfault.com/questions/133305/linux-memory-fragmentation
<tomreyn> you're probably not using huge pages with 4 GB of total physical memory
<marcoagpinto> tomreyn: It is Windows 10 not Ubuntu
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> and I store most of the data in multidimensional arrays that eat all RAM
<marcoagpinto> the software no longer works in 32-bit, but only in 64
<marcoagpinto> although I have removed a field from some of the arrays
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> but they are still huge
<marcoagpinto> then, they are also structured, for example:
<marcoagpinto> field(1,5000,5000)\time
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> anyway, I found a way of reducing RAM usage by removing a background image and replace it with a smaller picture, but the design guy made the GUI for free, so I can't ask much from him
<marcoagpinto> it is my PhD afterall
<JimBuntu> marcoagpinto, reduce your screen resolution and reduce RAM use even more :-)
<marcoagpinto> JimBuntu: What?! The software was suppose to use at least 1080p
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> but I only have 1366x768
<marcoagpinto> so, part of the options are semi-cut in the window
<tomreyn> hehe, TJ- is dealing with the same level of expertise in #ubuntu as i have been for the past 3 hours in #kubuntu
 * tomreyn ran out of patience again
<sarnold> tomreyn: heh, you're both machines :)
<tomreyn> machines would just do it, i want to shout right now
<sarnold> hm, maybe the computers scream back at us, but at 2ghz rather than 2khz where we could hear it..
<tomreyn> they just randomly draw more power to pay it back to us
<sarnold> hehe
<tomreyn> and transfer out unique ad id and browser fingerprint over 2khz to our android phones, right
<sarnold> oh is *that* how that works..
<jeremy31> It all goes along with the implant in your brain
<TJ-> Have you noticed you can make 'smart' phones sulk if you cut off their network facilities, and refuse to allow 'fine' GPS service?
<jeremy31> TJ-: figure out the grub issue from earlier today?
<TJ-> jeremy31: remind me which one! :D
<TJ-> oh... yeah... sheesh, so many things being juggled I'd entirely forgotten about that, seems like months ago
<jeremy31> TJ-: I think is was USB and trying to use Legacy and EFI boot
<tomreyn> there was someone claiming it was this way sounds transferred to android) on some security mailing list some 2 or so years ago. maybe this was around the badbios revelations, i don't rmemeber.
<tomreyn> sarnold: ^
<TJ-> jeremy31: grub-efi-amd64 Conflict/Replaces grub-pc but grub-efi-amd64-signed ... doesn't
<sarnold> I've heard about some ultrasonic advertising identifiers before..
<tomreyn> yes thats what i read, too
<TJ-> When your dogs start insisting on buying tat from Amazon you know there's ultrasonic ads!
<tomreyn> but there didn't seem to be any hard evidence then
<jeremy31> TJ-: Not sure what grub efi I have installed but the drive still works in Legacy and EFI mode
<tomreyn> hehe tj
<TJ-> jeremy31: it works, but it annoyed me the -signed (which does the same thing as the unsigned) gets to co-install with grub-pc but unsigned doesn't
<TJ-> jeremy31: oh! you've made me realise I forgot something vital! I didn't check grubx64.efi was copied to the removable media boot path - doh!
<jeremy31> TJ-: did a dpkg -l | grep grub  and I see no sign of grub efi
<TJ-> jeremy31: grub-efi-amd64{,-signed} are the 2 required for UEFI boot
<jeremy31> TJ-: It was installed first(grub-efi-amd64) and I added the bios_grub partition later
<TJ-> the installer only uses grub-efi-amd64 which is useless for 18.04 FDE (won't work) so I needed to replace the boot-loader with the locally built one, but that requires using "grub-install --no-uefi-secure-boot ..."
<TJ-> oops, s/only uses grub-efi-amd64-signed/
<jeremy31> I didn't try with FDE, I just was trying to get a SSD with a Linux install to work with an older laptop
<TJ-> interesting, booting the same installed USB device in a VM, it is blazing fast as an IDE disk but quite slothful as a virtio disk
<TJ-> also IDE is UEFI boot, VirtIO is BIOS but that shouldn't make a difference
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-14
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<sarnold> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey sarnold
<lotuspsychje> support slowly again?
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: can we get a LP answers link in #ubuntu-bugs-announce to report bug spammers?
<lotuspsychje> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<lordievader> Good morning
<marcoagpinto> Hello!
<EoflaOE> hello
<lordievader> ð
<EoflaOE> hi lordievader. How are you doing?
<lordievader> Apart from the cold, quite allright.
<lordievader> What about you guys?
<EoflaOE> Just woke up. I am alright.
<lordievader> Any plans for today?
<marcoagpinto> I have been up since 4am working on my sites and thesis
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> Finishing my Kernel Simulator.
<EoflaOE> The new version, 0.0.6.13
<lordievader> Kernel Simulator?
<lordievader> What kind of kernel?
<lordievader> Linux, machine learning?
<EoflaOE> Yes. The kernel that is simulated is my own kernel that will be done in the future as in both bootable and simulator versions. Currently, only simulator is being built. It has no name yet, but will get it in the future.
<lordievader> What is the purpose of simulating a kernel? (Trying to wrap my head around the idea ð )
<EoflaOE> First, my kernel simulator allows users and experts to get early access to my kernel that isn't finished yet. As it goes into the release candidate, the bootable version might be done, and can be bootable using GRUB, LILO, and Windows boot manager.
<lordievader> I see. Is it comparable to qemu?
<EoflaOE> QEMU is an emulator. However Kernel Simulator is a simulator, so it's not comparable.
<lordievader> Right. Cool :)
<EoflaOE> It's currently hosted on https://github.com/EoflaOE/Kernel-Simulator
<EoflaOE> I am also planning to make a PPA for very old apps like xlander, etc.
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj! lotuspsychje! pragmaticenigma! Hello guys!
<BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
<lotuspsychje> hi
<marcoagpinto> I am listening to some cool heavy metal
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<pragmaticenigma> yo
<marcoagpinto> y0!
<pragmaticenigma> who you callin' a yo yo?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<marcoagpinto> what?
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> I am just a cola demon
<marcoagpinto> a blue demon
<pragmaticenigma> !info gnome-disk-utility
<ubot5> gnome-disk-utility (source: gnome-disk-utility): manage and configure disk drives and media. In component main, is optional. Version 3.28.3-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 (bionic), package size 236 kB, installed size 1164 kB
<pragmaticenigma> !bug
<ubot5> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its official !flavors, please report it using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<pragmaticenigma> !feature
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: pointer to answeres.lp.net added to /topic on -announce
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: and... godd morning/afternoon :-), and thank you
<lotuspsychje> tnx hggdh
<TJ-> Did I mention here at the Blind Society how slow the HP Windows 10 PCs are? Operators have been complaining about this since 2017 when they were installed by the IT support company but that Co has never fixed it.. Typically boot to desktop is 7 minutes and opening email client or browsing means they can go make a coffee whilst the cursor spins
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: tomreyn found a warkaround for me https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-hwe/+bug/1838644
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1838644 in linux-hwe (Ubuntu) "Booting into desktop results in flickering" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: : o 7min
<TJ-> This morning I booted from Linux and did some tests. Sequential read test with dd 120MB/s - as expected... random read test using fio, 390KB/s max!
<TJ-> These all have WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA3 drives in
<TJ-> Cloned the HDDs to SSDs and now boot to desktop takes 14 seconds
<TJ-> You've never seen quite so many smiling laughing faces
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i saw recent customers with w10 laptops fresh bought from mediamarket like that too, 500GB spinner with endless booting
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: it must be a firmware defect in the HDDs... it *feels* like their internal 16MB RAM cache is not being used
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: did you convert them to linux too? or w10 clone ssd?
<TJ-> I did the fio tests in the NTFS and a new ext4 and got the same results
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: cloned the drives, they're still booting into Windows 10
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: what happens to the caviars now?
<TJ-> I'm now going round every PC and running the same tests and collecting the results to compile an action-file so we can force the IT supplier/support Co to replace the drives.
<lotuspsychje> nice project
<TJ-> Operators have ben opening support tickets since 2017 about this and they've never figured out this basic issue
<lotuspsychje> omg..
<lotuspsychje> ssd whats that?
<TJ-> So, once we've got the drives replaced on their cost we'll be dumping them!
<TJ-> Those Caviar HD drives should typically manage 40-50MB/s random I/O
<lotuspsychje> i try to enclosure my customers spinners, so they still can use them as storage
<lotuspsychje> sharkoon enclosures
<TJ-> Well these are useless at 390KB/s
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> I checked the firmware revision; on the latest from WD
<TJ-> I'm wondering if it is some interaction with the HP motherboards so I'm going to test one on another system
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: got that model from HP?
<lotuspsychje> im curious
<TJ-> Presumably, I've seen the invoice and it just lists HP Desktop with 500GB HDD
<lotuspsychje> maybe a bulk one with white cheap products inside :p
<lotuspsychje> like medion does
<TJ-> oh lovely, we have 3 years parts and labour from HP!
<TJ-> dated 2015 :(
<lotuspsychje> ouch
<TJ-> so these could have been fixed under warranty if the support Co had diagnosed this properly
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: problem is the original buy, when a store says the computers are fine
<lotuspsychje> the Os dont work properly on it by default
<TJ-> in this case the PCs were specified and supplied by our IT support Co
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: we had a recent article in belgium a school bought like 2000 chromebooks bulk
<lotuspsychje> i looked up the model, was like less then 200 euro/piece
<lotuspsychje> officially
<TJ-> What annoys me most is the number of times staff and volunteers here have told the support co there is something wrong and it was never diagnosed properly
<TJ-> Literally months have been wasted waiting for the PCs they're so slow
<TJ-> So you'd expect those chromebooks in bulk to attract a discount?
<lotuspsychje> yeah surely they made a deal
<lotuspsychje> students need something to work in the cloud with
<lotuspsychje> so they chosen cheap chromebooks
<TJ-> pfft @ cloud ... and as useful as bricks if there's any network hiccup
<lotuspsychje> wonder how long those machines will endure too
<TJ-> Chromebooks were designed to feed Google's recurring services revenue
<lotuspsychje> i dont like those cheap, glued emmc devices
<TJ-> hmmm well this, my Asus T300CHI, has one (128GB) I don't mind it for a light ultra portable transformer
<TJ-> I've also got a 256GB SD-card in with a VG called VG_READ_MOSTLY which really describes its use :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah well, i had an sus repair once too, battery was glued on mobo lol
<lotuspsychje> battery dead, throw away laptop
<lotuspsychje> cost you more sending back to factory then its worth
<TJ-> I cracked the digitiser on this earlier in the year. I've got a new one waiting to be fitted but its such a challenging job I've held off tackling it - if I get it wrong I'll break the LCD and have to replace them both :)
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<TJ-> And as I *hate* touchscreen anyhow it's disabled in udev so aside from noticing the refraction the cracks cause occassionally I don't mind it
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i see HP PC desktop Slimline 290-p0049nb around 300-400 euro
<lotuspsychje> 4gb ram 500gb spinner, weirdy cpu :p
<TJ-> yeah, G3x50 or something
<TJ-> G3250
<marcoagpinto> it is a Pentium
<TJ-> indeed
<marcoagpinto> but a more recent generation of it
<lotuspsychje> needs lubuntu bad :p
<TJ-> only 2 cores, no HT
<marcoagpinto> yes, it sucks
<TJ-> needs Lubuntu - got Windows 10 !
<TJ-> They run fine with the SSDs in, no lag
<marcoagpinto> how come it has no HT?
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats what i did with my laptop customer too, w10 ran bit faster that way
<marcoagpinto> even my Pentium T4200 blah blah has
<TJ-> marcoagpinto: no idea! the Intel Ark confirms it though
<EoflaOE> Hello everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOE
<marcoagpinto> Hello EoflaOE!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> anyway, I have been up since 4am and need a nap
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> hi lotuspsychje and marcoagpinto. How are you doing?
<marcoagpinto> :p
<lotuspsychje> good good
<marcoagpinto> I have been adding word to the GB speller and thesis
<marcoagpinto> :p
<marcoagpinto> words*
<EoflaOE> Nice.
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaaaaaa... my 80K lines university project... I could reduce the number of lines because I created a function that gets the values from StringGadgets and turns them red if the values are invalid
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I created the function for Proofing Tool GUI and then realised it had more uses
<EoflaOE> Nice.
<marcoagpinto> guys?! I have to nap... bbl... take care
<leftyfb> TJ-: did you say you have dropbear running from initramfs? Mine is complaining about "uninitialized urandom read (32 bytes read)
<teadbeef> Hi, I was trying to install Ubuntu 5.04 using qemu (for self-education). It all went well, except after booting with the live iso, I don't know the next step to take. Two problems are envolved: i. I don't see any virtual hard drive mapped to /dev. This is unexpected since I created a 6G image before and attached. ii. I don't know how to install the system to the device if present. Should I configure
<teadbeef> the system manually? (e.g. create the fstab file, set up the time zone, configure the network etc.).
<TJ-> Revelation! Brought one of the WD Blue Caviear 500G HDDs home connected it via USB3<>SATA bridge to the low-powered PC Engines APU2 that has a measily AMD Geode CPU ... random read test can do 29MB/s ... compare that to the 390KB/s the drive does in those HP Desktops... looks like there's some major incompatibility beteween the HPs and these WD drives
<teadbeef> This is the command that I used to launch the vm: qemu-system-x86_64 -cdrom ubuntu-5.04-live-i386.iso -boot order=d -drive file=kernel-dev-2.6.10.img,format=raw -m 2G
<teadbeef> I didn't see any sd* nor vd* devices under /dev
<teadbeef> Let me know if this is not the right place to ask.
<TJ-> teadbeef: are you having to work on a PC without a GUI? Because if you have GUI install virt-manager it'll make the task much easier
<TJ-> !info virt-manager
<ubot5> virt-manager (source: virt-manager): desktop application for managing virtual machines. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:1.5.1-0ubuntu1.2 (bionic), package size 981 kB, installed size 7774 kB
<OerHeks> 5.04 gave a live iso and install iso
<OerHeks> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/5.04/
<lordcirth> teadbeef, why 5.04? What's educational about it?
<nacc> leftyfb: i mentioned it a bit before you answered, but bzr is in universe now (in 19.04+)
<leftyfb> nacc: the version he's looking for is in main as well
<nacc> leftyfb: tbh, this user seems to know just enough to get them into trouble
<leftyfb> yep
<nacc> leftyfb: you mean the base version? bzr6622 is in main in 18.04, yes
<leftyfb> -15 is in main 19.04
<leftyfb> -10 is 18.04
<nacc> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr doesn't agree
<nacc> but ok
<nacc> *maybe* it didn't get moved, but i doubt that
<sarnold> btw what's the goal with the bzr questions? maybe the right answer is to direct him or her to breezy instead
<nacc> in all of 19.04 it is only in universe https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr/+publishinghistory
<nacc> yeah, i don't know sarnold :)
<leftyfb> nacc: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/tx8CpfG5Yt/
<leftyfb> oh damn, it is universe
<leftyfb> odd
<nacc> ... universe :)
<nacc> heh
<leftyfb> could have sworn ...
<leftyfb> oh well, not the first or last time I'm wrong
<nacc> heh, not a big deal at all!
<OerHeks> normally it is me wrong :-D
<OerHeks> thnx
<nacc> `pull-lp-source` may be a better alternative to `apt-get source` since it's not dependent on apt configuration
<leftyfb> nacc: good to know
<leftyfb> bit ugly adding repo's temporarily
<nacc> you can specify version and release targets too
<nacc> OerHeks: lol
<nacc> leftyfb: there's an equivalent `pull-debian-source`
<leftyfb> problem with ubuntu servers?
<leftyfb> paste.ubuntu.com seems down
<leftyfb> as does me trying  pull-debian-source bzr disco
<sarnold> many of us are also disconnected from internal irc
<nacc> well `pull-debian-source ... disco` won't work  anyways
<nacc> as disco is not a debian version
<sarnold> heh
<leftyfb> ah, right
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-15
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<EoflaOE> good morni
<EoflaOE> morning*
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: morning
<EoflaOE> good morning lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Hey EoflaOE
<EoflaOE> Hello, how are you?
<lordievader> Doing good here
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<marcoagpinto> Heya
 * JimBuntu slides an orange juice with lime to marcoagpinto 
<marcoagpinto> what?
<marcoagpinto> I am drinking cola
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> at 5am I ran out of stock
<marcoagpinto> but I already bought some more
<JimBuntu> I am trying to help you live longer, use the PhD to better use
<marcoagpinto> JimBuntu: at the supermarket in the last weekend there was a customer who said that her mother was 80 and only drank cola
<marcoagpinto> :)
<JimBuntu> People lie.
<JimBuntu> 80 isn't even that old, come back in 21 years ;p
<marcoagpinto> ohhhhhhhhhh
<BluesKaj> marcoagpinto, are you writing a thesis about cola for your PhD ?
<BluesKaj> you shoukd be
<BluesKaj> should
<marcoagpinto> it is about terrorism and information theory
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj: hello
<BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
<JimBuntu> marcoagpinto, your thoughts on how the term terrorism is used outside of those using terror to meet their goals?
<marcoagpinto> no
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I am going to prove that the domain of information in combat is catastrophic
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> something like that
<marcoagpinto> it is hard to explain
<JimBuntu> Sorry, I was asking what your thoughts are on how the term is used
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> everything now-a-days is terrorism
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> if there is one dead or two, it is terrorism
<marcoagpinto> :)
<JimBuntu> The history of the term is odd because it wasn't originally used the way people would expect it to be used, it wasn't used by it's common definition, which really, it isn't used by now either
<marcoagpinto> I have written then in a line in the thesis
<marcoagpinto> them*
<marcoagpinto> the first time the term was used was in a war envolving the French
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> but that is all I know
<JimBuntu> I agree, everything is called terrorism now, even though the term should have a clear definition and most things aren't terrorism if defined normally
<marcoagpinto> :)
<JimBuntu> Yeah, French revolution, used as a slander against the enemy, even though they were NOT trying to use terror tactics
<JimBuntu> For me, a perfect example of REAL terrorism is basically from the Batman movie ( to keep it silly ) where people were afraid to use make-up as some unknown combination was disastrous.
<BluesKaj> Robespierre and Danton used terrorist tactics against the aristocracy
<marcoagpinto> I only want to finish the course to dedicate my free time to the projects :)
<marcoagpinto> and code games again
<JimBuntu> Ah, no worries marcoagpinto , it's nice to chase your dream even if silly things like a thesis or dissertations get in the way ;p
<marcoagpinto> I have put appart even the UFO subject :(
<marcoagpinto> I am a member of MUFON but for ages that I only pay the membership and do nothing
<JimBuntu> UFOs are REAL... aliens might not be ( idk ) but UFOs are :-)
<marcoagpinto> I don't even read the journal
<marcoagpinto> I need to learn UNITY 3D and get back to convert ZX Spectrum games to the PC
<marcoagpinto> :)
<JimBuntu> My brother caught UFO footage while waiting to record me exiting a test. Did some crazy stuff, even ended up on the local news. No explanation from local air ports etc
<BluesKaj> marcoagpinto, have you seen this?  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alien-spotted-boarding-ufo-in-romania/
<marcoagpinto> http://marcoagpinto.com/me_space.html <- this should give you lots of information about the subject
<marcoagpinto> :)
<JimBuntu> This was back in the days of large VHS camcorders. He was very lucky to have had it with him as he was supposed to be capturing the look on my face exiting
<BluesKaj> I have the original video of the above alien boarding the spaceship, the one I posted is blurry and poorly edited
<JimBuntu> BUILD THE WALL! ;p
<marcoagpinto> what?
<marcoagpinto> :)
<JimBuntu> marcoagpinto, sorry, Political style joke about stopping the 'aliens'.
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> anyway, in my site you can find information not found elsewhere
<marcoagpinto> :)
<JimBuntu> looking
<marcoagpinto> I have tons of paranormal books which I bought in the 1990s and they don't have it
<JimBuntu> Oh! marcoagpinto , I heard last night... Bernie Sanders says that if he gets elected ( as president of the USA ) and they tell him ETs exist, he will tell the people on Joe Rogans YouTube channel.
<marcoagpinto> well, Clinton said "Area 51" existed... but for decades that the people know that
<BluesKaj> here is a better version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNz7BNhdkfw
<JimBuntu> marcoagpinto, I'll have to get you the info, but you should update that Area 51 was relocated, somewhat publicly as well.
<marcoagpinto> ohhhh
<JimBuntu> Scientific American sent journalists with cash to Area 51 right after the move, they couldn't even get a single fine placed on them though
<JimBuntu> thanks BluesKaj
<JimBuntu> a new twist for the thesis marcoagpinto , aliens are actually terrorists... they keep showing up to prevent our space program :-)
<marcoagpinto> what?
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> the thesis is about visible things
<BluesKaj> there are all kinds of claims about visiting aliens working with Area 51 engineers etc
<JimBuntu> They show up to stress that we shouldn't be exploring... cause they want all the things for themselves
<marcoagpinto> I don't refer to aliens and such in it
<JimBuntu> Well, I should hope not... not if you want your doctorate.
<marcoagpinto> if all goes well, in 2021 I will return to the subject
<marcoagpinto> :)
<JimBuntu> yay, not too far away.
<marcoagpinto> yes
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I wanted to finish the course this year... but the thesis is never approved by the supervisors
<marcoagpinto> I have been changing it since December
<JimBuntu> ouch, sorry to hear that
<marcoagpinto> first I wrote two volumes, one with DATA ANALYSIS and with the MAIN stuff
<marcoagpinto> ~1000 pages the data one
<marcoagpinto> the other some ~700 pages
<marcoagpinto> but the professor complained it was not a thesis, so I had to give up on the DATA volume and rewrite the main
<marcoagpinto> and OTHER with the MAIN stuff*
<marcoagpinto> On December the Professor said my thesis looked like a Sh*tty report
<marcoagpinto> so, I had to rewrite it
<marcoagpinto> :(
<marcoagpinto> what is wrong with a report anyway?
<marcoagpinto> he shouted that on the phone
<pragmaticenigma> no shouting!
<marcoagpinto> "your thesis looks like a sh*tty report!!!!!!"
<marcoagpinto> :(((((((((
<marcoagpinto> I got so sad
<marcoagpinto> after 6 years working on the software and text
<BluesKaj> marcoagpinto, don't you have a professor advisor to help you thru your thesis?
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj: yes, since January
<marcoagpinto> :)
<BluesKaj> most PhD candidates in North American universities have an advisor from the start
<marcoagpinto> I only got one because it looked like a s**** report
<marcoagpinto> the cosupervisor was the Professor's best student
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> 19/20 grande
<marcoagpinto> grade*
<BluesKaj> the advisor should be there to guide you from the beginning
<marcoagpinto> I know :(((((((((
<marcoagpinto> I had to code the software by myself and write the thesis
<marcoagpinto> that is why I suggested the cosupervisor of the masters, but the Professor didn't accept it
<BluesKaj> my son is an associate professor at a smaller U, but he managed to have an advisor throughout his thesis work
<BluesKaj> it must have been difficult for you to be so "on your own"
<marcoagpinto> yes, and then I changed my timetable at the supermarket to only work on the weekends... and a university invited me to become the Moodle Manager
<marcoagpinto> two terrible years, with e-mails arriving at all times of the day and night
<marcoagpinto> I would work for them from home
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> that is why I say that work is a necessary evil and leads nowhere... I will never find peace on earth
<marcoagpinto> the director phoned me to go to the university to help him with an e-mail writing
<marcoagpinto> in a few seconds I drag'n'dropped the image into the e-mail and teh work was done
<marcoagpinto> :(
<marcoagpinto> I spent 3 hours of travel to insert an image into an e-mail
<marcoagpinto> :(
<marcoagpinto> that is why I have been refusing work offers for years... it leads nowhere
<lordievader> <BluesKaj "most PhD candidates in North Ame"> Here you are also assigned an advisor and a supervisor right from the start. Though sometimes you have to poke a bit.
<BluesKaj> marcoagpinto, next time ask him what he's trying to do and tell him how
<BluesKaj> over the phone
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> and the university newsletter... I sent the same letter to 10K several times
<marcoagpinto> the students were angry at me
<marcoagpinto> because the director told me to send it
<BluesKaj> lordievader, yes my son did some lobbying ;-)
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj: about the image, both directors (a man and a woman) told me they wanted a meeting with me... so, I went there and the meeting was inserting the image
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I have learned my lesson
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I need to retire with the EuroMillions
<BluesKaj> well. I wish you the best in your work and your goals
<marcoagpinto> thanks
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<BluesKaj> bbl
<marcoagpinto> oki
<marcoagpinto> take care
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj: ahhh... the university job was in 2015
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> two years
<marcoagpinto> working from home to them
<marcoagpinto> but they had meeting I had to go physically
<marcoagpinto> meetings*
<lordievader> I have weekly meetings with my supervisor. That really helps. Sure, sometimes we skip a week if it doesn't fit with our schedules, but still.
<marcoagpinto> http://proofingtoolgui.org/proofingtoolgui_files/Europass-CV-marcoagpinto_20190601_en.pdf
<marcoagpinto> ahhh.. I worked for the university between 2013 and 2015
<marcoagpinto> my head has been mixing the dates
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I am brain-toasted completely
<lordievader> That means it is time for something else ;)
<marcoagpinto> what?
<lordievader> If your brain went to mush on one topic/task it is time do something else.
<marcoagpinto> I am trying to do all at the same time
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> that is my problem... I try to do all
<lordievader> Too much context switching...
<marcoagpinto> yes
<marcoagpinto> bbl
<marcoagpinto> take care everyone
<pragmaticenigma> !info pdftk
<ubot5> Package pdftk does not exist in bionic
<pragmaticenigma> OerHeks: I'm certain this question was posted before in #u, about pdftk... think it's another case of someone that can't use a web search engine
<OerHeks> pragmaticenigma, i find no other gui, so that would explain it
<pragmaticenigma> best I can find on pdftk is that it's closed source java application, and not something I can find in any of the ubuntu repos
<leftyfb> zsh-common: /usr/share/zsh/functions/Completion/X/_pdftk
<leftyfb> not sure if that's related
<leftyfb> maybe they're referring to a zsh function?
<pragmaticenigma> not sure ... pdftk is a pretty well known PDF processing tool kit ... if something else goes by the same name, I have not been able to find it so far
<lotuspsychje> good evening
<OerHeks> hi lotuspsychje
<OerHeks> new firefox 68.0.2 ..
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> tnx, updating
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: Do you recall a previous converation in main about pdftk?
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: refresh my mind a bit?
<pragmaticenigma> oh, I'm thinking the topic would have been back in February... so if it doesn't ring a bell on the name, i'm not sure I can think of anything else to help
<lotuspsychje> im not good at remembering nicks, unless they are trolls :p
<pragmaticenigma> not a nick... name of application
<lotuspsychje> not then
<lordievader> pragmaticenigma: It is still in debian. Would expect it is therefore in Ubuntu repos too. https://packages.debian.org/buster/pdftk
<pragmaticenigma> It's probably somewhere out there, I'm just not searching apt with the right term
<pragmaticenigma> no matter how you look at it... pdftk is intentionally written to be worked with in a CLI interface as it's goal is to be used to batch process PDFs... A GUI would imply that one wishes to edit a pdf, which is not an intended use case for PDFtk
<pragmaticenigma> from some documentation though: The pdftk package in Ubuntu (and its upstream Debian package) was dropped due to its dependency on the now deprecated GCJ runtime. I found a fork that depends on OpenJDK or similar instead.
<tomreyn> this reminds me i wanted to setup a search engine for irclogs
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: Does "{search_term} site:irclogs.google.com" not work?
<pragmaticenigma> oops
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: Does "{search_term} site:irclogs.ubuntu.com" not work?
<tomreyn> no, not really
<tomreyn> google web search was nice before it became a product
<tomreyn> or rather before they started selling proper search results as a service
<daftykins> :<
<Kon-> I've continued testing on this bug and I'm thinking it's a mainline kernel issue at this stage.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-signed-hwe/+bug/1839750
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1839750 in linux-signed-hwe (Ubuntu) "40% performance loss in Mesa with Linux 5.0" [Undecided,New]
<Kon-> I know 5.0 introduced a lot of Intel CPU mitigations, but seeing as how this primarily effects my AMD GPU, I'm a little confused here. I did test some CPU workloads and didn't notice any significant change
<Kon-> (AMD CPU too)
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: lordievader said he was on 4.19 for ryzen and works nice there
<daftykins> Kon-: my extremely limited understanding of mesa is that it's very much behind in HWE stacks for ubuntu normally, have you tried one of the commonly used mesa PPAs for a much newer release?
<daftykins> perhaps it marries up with the kernels better
<Kon-> lotuspsychje: Yes, I tested the latest 4.19.66 and it's great
<lordievader> `Linux executor 4.19.57-gentoo #5 SMP Mon Aug 5 12:08:45 CEST 2019 x86_64 AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux`
<Kon-> daftykins: I've tried Mesa from the repo, 19.1 series from the Stable PPA, and the 19.2-devel builds
<Kon-> The outcomes only change with kernel changes
<daftykins> Kon-: hmm i was really referring to other PPAs often spoken of in game related circles, not sure if those are any newer in comparison
<daftykins> is it games you're trying to facilitate?
<Kon-> Doesn't get any newer than the git, I think ;)
<Kon-> But yeah, my dev builds were pre-compiled on the PPA
<daftykins> ok well that wasn't immediately obvious from the words you chose
<Kon-> And yes, I was on 5.0 for a week before I noticed a regression. Seems only Vulkan titles are affected
<tomreyn> how about newer kernels? how do you measure the performance drop?
<Kon-> 4.20.17 was good, 5.0.3 was bad, 5.2.8 remains bad
<daftykins> where is the nice write-up with pretty graphs? :D
<Kon-> I think my write-up in the bug report was good. No graphs yet
<lotuspsychje> i asked Kon- to describe his benchmarking in his bug
<tomreyn> oh sorry i have not read the full bug report, yet
<OerHeks> oh, our distrowatch poller crazytux is back, enjoy
<TJ-> tomreyn: Looks like my fio tests onn SATA/udma5 are bogus ... I decided to test other SATA3 drives and got the same kind of results! Not sure how to do a definitive test now to identify the original issue
<TJ-> hmmm, in KVM guest: "Jobs: 1 (f=1): [m(1)][100.0%][r=88.9MiB/s,w=30.0MiB/s][r=22.8k,w=7691 IOPS][eta 00m:00s]"
<tomreyn> TJ-: i have never used fio, couldn't tell...
<TJ-> anyone free to test, on a spinning disk, "sudo fio --randrepeat=1 --ioengine=libaio --direct=1 --gtod_reduce=1 --name=randrw --filename=randrw.fio.test --bs=4k --iodepth=64 --size=1G --readwrite=randrw --rwmixread=75 --directory=/ " and let me see the results
<tomreyn> thats non destructive, right?
<TJ-> tomreyn: it creates the file /randrw.fio.test size 1G and uses that
<TJ-> if you're mounting some other device pass --directory=/path/to/mountpoint
<TJ-> I've done this test on different SATA disks in my forensics/data-recovery server, loadavg was 0.02, ioping on the same device being tested as the tests are running was 0.2ms, so not sure where the issue is
<TJ-> Going for dinner whilst tests run
<tomreyn> this is a laptop with single SAMSUNG MZNTE256HMHP-000H1 hdd with dmcrypt-luks + lvm + ext4 on /: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/t2x888yFqS/
<TJ-> tomreyn: that's an SSD?
 * daftykins nods
<TJ-> That's about what I see for various SSDs... its the spinning rust I need to compare against
<tomreyn> whoops sorry, ssd indeed
<TJ-> I'd doing the same test of the WD Blue and it's reporting Jobs: 1 (f=1): [m(1)][32.6%][r=468KiB/s,w=140KiB/s][r=117,w=35 IOPS][eta 01h:20m:41s]s]
<tomreyn> i dont have spinning rust where i can install fio + ioping currently
<daftykins> nor me
<TJ-> doesn't seem to be IO latency because ioping is fast: "min/avg/max/mdev = 196.3 us / 243.9 us / 350.6 us / 57.2 us"
<TJ-> loadavg on the system is 0.02
<TJ-> What's annoying here is a I know the original issue was solved by replacing the disk with a clone, but cannot find a definitive test to prove the fault, grrr
<TJ-> And as we have 10 identical PCs all showing the same symtoms I want to do that force the supplier to fix them
<Eickmeyer> OerHeks: I think he was referring to ubuntustudio-installer.
<Eickmeyer> Also, there are 3 key ! commands: !ubuntustudio-installer, !ubuntustudio-controls, and !ubuntustudio-backports
<OerHeks> hey Eickmeyer
<OerHeks> ah, i missed controls
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, they popped-in to #ubuntustudio, but I couldn't get to it in time. Been busy prepping for a trip.
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-16
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> morning folks
<marcoagpinto> Heya!
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: awake?
<EoflaOE> Yes lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: got a proposal for an UWN article about making #ubuntu-bugs-announce more popular, maybe suggest to the UWN team?
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: maybe if we mention, more users find their way up there
<EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Yes.
<marcoagpinto> my dear beloved brothers! >:)
<EoflaOE> hi marcoagpinto
<lotuspsychje> hi marcola
<marcoagpinto> Hi
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lordievader> ð
<EoflaOE> hi lordievader
<lordievader> Hey EoflaOE How are you doing?
<EoflaOE> Doing fine. How about you?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<marcoagpinto> ahhh... on my research for the warfare eras I learned that the ancient warfare ended with the finding of iron :)
<TJ-> Here's an interesting issue for you: Been seeing the reaction to an external Bluetooth mouse being stuttering movement for a few days, despite opening up the mouse several times looking for problems. A BT-connected keyboard/touchpad didn't have the same problem. The BT hub is connected internally on USB. This PC (Asus T300CHI transgormer) has a single USB3.0 mini connector on the side. This has two
<TJ-> connectors (USB2 mini + USB3 mini) as one so there is backward compatibility. For some time the USB3 side has been flakey because as far as I can tell physical leverage has broken the solder traces to the mainboard. I usually have a USB3 mini to USB-A adapter connected even when no USB device is plugged in. Today I had inspiration and unplugged the adapter (a passive cable) and the BT mouse instantly
<TJ-> behaved properly. So.. physical damage on the edge connector causes internal spurious USB interference.
<marcoagpinto> guys?! Has the Kernel issue been fixed?
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> so that I can update my 19.04?
<lordievader> marcoagpinto: The kernel issue?
<marcoagpinto> V 15 something
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lordievader> What?
<marcoagpinto> that people were complaining a week or two ago
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> 5.0.15
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaa... I can't remember the version... too much pressure
<lordievader> This really tells me nothing. Link to a bugreport?
<marcoagpinto> lordievader: people were complaining that if would freeze Ubuntu
<marcoagpinto> it*
<marcoagpinto> or cause flickering in the screen
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Do you know what bug marcoagpinto is talking about, and if it has been fixed?
<jeremy31> I know lotuspsychje had flickering on a Clevo
<lordievader> Yeah, I remember him talking about that.
<jeremy31> I have the same graphics card in this HP and no flickering with the same kernel
<marcoagpinto> what is this "waiting for unattended-upg to exit"?
<marcoagpinto> it takes 10 minutes to disappear?
<marcoagpinto> on software updater
<lordievader> Unattended upgrades busy with performing updates?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader jeremy31 tomreyn found a workaround for my flickering bug 5.0 see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-hwe/+bug/1838644
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1838644 in linux-hwe (Ubuntu) "Booting into desktop results in flickering" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<lordievader> marcoagpinto: ^
<marcoagpinto> lordievader: yes, exactly
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> sorry... I went to the store to buy cola... I ran out of stock
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I've added some info to your flicker bug report
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> tnx TJ- you want me to try a 4.19 mainline then?
<lotuspsychje> 4.18 is confirmed working
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: it would help yes, since if you can confirm the issue is between the 2 a git bisect across those commits would not need a lot of steps
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: allrighty lets grab a 4.19
<TJ-> Â git bisect start v4.19 v4.18 -- drivers/gpu/drm/i915
<TJ-> Bisecting: 273 revisions left to test after this (roughly 8 steps)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: alot of folder on the 4.19 series, wich one to start?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: v4.19   -- the first
<lotuspsychje> https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.19-rc1/ this?
<TJ-> no, that's a release candidate. https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.9/
<lotuspsychje> kk
<TJ-> oops, not that one !!
<TJ-> that's 4.9 noto 4.19 :D
<TJ-> https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.19/
<lotuspsychje> on it
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: the upstream bug suggests it affects 4.19 onwards so if you can confirm that we're much closer to finding the cause
<lotuspsychje> i can still use the i915.fastboot=0 bootline right
<lotuspsychje> ok reboot test
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: 4.19 also flickering, i presume thats what you wanted to prove right?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: fab, yes :)
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: do you have a local (powerful) amd64 system to do kernel builds on? It'd make it much easier and faster to do these tests since you could do your own bisect and kernel builds
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: intel i5 here, and my nuc i7
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: the i5 would be a good one... after the first complete build (which will take some time) later builds will be incremental so should be much quicker
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: is it 4.19 bisect time, thats what you suggest?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: bisect between v4.19 (bad) and v4.18 (good) just using the drivers/gpu/drm/i915 path
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: is that intel-drm daily builds you mean for 4.19 specific then?
<EoflaOE> What is "bisect"?
<marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: compare the source code between versions
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> to try to find out what introduced the issue
<EoflaOE> Thanks marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> I am just a little demon
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: no, it isn't daily, it means building the kernel as it exists between 4.18 and 4.19 using binary section (bisect) which divides the distance between the 'good' and 'bad' commits by 2 each time
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: so you want me to find the weak spot in the 4.18 series?
<lotuspsychje> 4.19 sorry
<TJ-> From my earlier git-bisect report it expects there to be 8 steps (builds) to find the problem commit
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: correct
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.19.5/ to start with?
<TJ-> It said "Bisecting: 273 revisions left to test after this (roughly 8 steps)" ... so that means 273 /2=136 /2=67 /2=34 /2=17 /2=8 /2=4 =/2=2 /2=1
<lotuspsychje> not sure i follow that
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: no, the first 'bad' is v4.19 so it'll work backwards from that tag to v4.18, passing through only the commits to the drivers/gpu/drm/i915/ changes
<lotuspsychje> so its the 4.18 series to bisect then
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: the count is the number of commits affecting the drivers/gpu/drm/i915/ path ... binary section means take the middle commit between 'good' and 'bad' and test it. If that is 'bad' then you've halved the number of commits to test so you build the next test from a commit half way between 'good' and this new 'bad' etc
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: no, it is the commits added between v4.18 and v4.19, this has nothing to do with the stable releases (v4.18.X are stable releases)
<lotuspsychje> yeah but i dont get those numbers, can you gimme examples of kernels i should test up or down
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: those added commits will have arrived as soon as the v4.19 development cycle started and would be contained in the various v4.19-rcX points
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: OK, let's go back to (git) basics.
<TJ-> Every kernel change is self-contained as a small patch that affects only the files that relate to the change being made. We call that change a "commit". Every commit has a unique SHA hash which is the commit ID. Every so often the project (in this case Linux Torvalds) decides to make a test 'release' so a commit is 'tagged'. A tag is the version numbers you're more familiar with, e.g. v4.19rc1,
<TJ-> v4.19rc2, ... maybe to v4.19rc7 ... when Linus is happy there are no regressions he'll make a full release which is tagged as v4.19  ... and then start the 4.20 release cycle.
<lotuspsychje> yeah i get every kernel version has commits added
<TJ-> In the 4.20 release cycle there may come fixes for bugs and regression reported against v4.19 ... those are added to a separate git repository, the stable tree, maintained by Gregg Kroah-Hartman. When Gregg makes releases he adds a number to the release so you'll see v4.19.1, v4.19.2, v4.19.3 ... and so on. Those are where Ubuntu kernel will pull most if its fixes from
<lotuspsychje> yeah nocticed those
<TJ-> So in your specific case you know the v4.18 release works fine but the v4.19 release is bad. We also deduce in your case the problem is most likely in the i915 driver itself, so we can limit where we look for the bug to the drivers/gpu/drm/i915/ path in the kernel source.
<TJ-> So when we ask git-bisect to get to work it counts all the commits on that path between the two tags v4.18 and v4.19, which is 273
<lotuspsychje> ahh i see
<lotuspsychje> 273 versions to test in between
<TJ-> then it it picks the commit half-way between, which is ~136 commits after v4.18 and builds the kernel there
<TJ-> you test that build and tell git-bisect it was either 'good' or 'bad'
<TJ-> If it was bad git-bisect then knows the problem is between v4.18 and 136 commits later, so it picks the commit half-way between (~ 67) and you build again.
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: but im not a dev, i know nothing on commits, only to install kernel versions
<lotuspsychje> so you tell me wich kernel version is on halfway 136 commits?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: right, but this process only involves issuing simple git-bisect good/bad commands after each test, executing the kernel build instruction and waiting for the kernel to be ready, then installing and testing it.
<TJ-> git bisect automatically checks out the commit to be tested and then you issue the kernel build command and sit back until it is ready
<lotuspsychje> git-bisect is something else then kernel bisect?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: instead of you telling seth and him telling git-bisect and then waiting for seth to build the kernel, you do that part yourself which means you aren't waiting on someone else
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: git-bisect is the tool used to do kernel bisecting
<lotuspsychje> right
<TJ-> that's what devs mean when they talk about kernel bisect, they're using git-bisect's automated workflow which just involves telling git-bisect which are the good and bad commits/tags and then it checks out the commit 1/2 way beteen those and you trigger a build, test, report good or bad and go around again :)
<TJ-> and as I said, git-bisect indicates you'll only need a max of 8 builds to find the bug
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah i noticed the dev helping me was building stuff on the 5.0 series, wich he presumed the commits
<lotuspsychje> but not sure i wanna start playing with git bisect lol
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I promise you it is simple :) here's the man-page... all you'd use is the 'start' 'good' and 'bad' options
<TJ-> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/en/man1/git-bisect.1.html
<lotuspsychje> can you give me an example on one kernel
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: how do you mean 'on one kernel' ?
<lotuspsychje> well we want to test on the 4.18 and 4.19 series specificly right?
<lotuspsychje> does this test the kernel you booted on?
<TJ-> The kernel is ONE tree of code with continuously added changes (commits). Some of those commits get 'tagged' with version numbers is all. There are NOT separate 'kernels' or 'trees' for each release version.
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: give me an example of git-bisect ill see if i udnerstand
<TJ-> It goes like this: 1) use git to clone the kernel source-code locally  2) install the tools required to build the kernel 3)  use git-bisect to indicate the known 'good' and 'bad' commits (tags) 4) git-bisect will 'check-out' the source tree at the midddle commit 5) build the kernel from source to binary 6) install the built kernel 7) test 8) tell git-bisect if it was 'good' or 'bad' 9) repeat from 5
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: that man-page contains an example workflow using bisect on the kernel , you'll see there it does "git bisect good v2.6.13-rc2"
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: tnx for the explanation but im not gonna start mess with it
<lotuspsychje> this is the work devs need to do
<TJ-> that's a shame, you'd have the exact commit that broke it in a few hours
<lotuspsychje> they know wich kernels work and doesnt now..
<TJ-> They've got do all I've described and you've got to test every build anyhow to discover the bad commit
<TJ-> Especially as this only seems to affect that model/BIOS
<lotuspsychje> i wanna help kernel testing but not gonna start building them
<lordievader> Building kernels is not that complicated...
<lotuspsychje> maybe, but the devs are payed to do this
<lotuspsychje> and im not really pleased this happened on lts..
<lotuspsychje> knowing this works on several other kernels versions
<lordievader> Not enough qa testers on real and different hardware?
<lotuspsychje> maybe lordievader but if 5.2 and 5.3 work nicely, the commits used there are known to work
<lotuspsychje> they 'should' know where the cuplrit is?
<lordievader> Back when I still did qa testing I mainly used virtual machines since that way you could test multiple targets at the same time.
<lordievader> But you miss these kind of things that show with particular hardware combinations.
<lotuspsychje> you mean that only i (on this machine) can really find the right 'bad' commit that causing it?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: you have to consider those 'devs' have greater priorities than this issue since it only affects a small number of models/BIOS, whereas you have a greater interest in solving it. Being able to tell the devs X commit is the problem might save several weeks of back and forth
<lotuspsychje> ok fair enough
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: and the other point is the dev's may be paid but not specifically for this kind of issue, they're paid to solve issues for paying customers mostly... if that helps the communnity users its a benefit of course
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: is it possible if this bug isnt traced right, this will happen to next ubuntu versions?
<lordievader> If they are payed at all.
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: of course, moreso because the Intel i915 dev that looked at the upstream bug in March/April hasn't responded about it since
<lotuspsychje> right..
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: could you doublecheck this plz: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=244115
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: that commit (a99790bf5c7f3d68d8b01e015d3212a98ee7bd57) suggests the affect is wider than just video
<lotuspsychje> but they also mentioning the flickering
<lotuspsychje> and my wifi:
<TJ-> from your dmesg
<lotuspsychje> description: Wireless interface
<lotuspsychje>        product: Wireless-AC 9260
<TJ-> [    0.238658] ACPI FADT declares the system doesn't support PCIe ASPM, so disable it
<TJ-> [    0.369195] acpi PNP0A08:00: _OSC: OS supports [ExtendedConfig ASPM ClockPM Segments MSI]
<TJ-> [    0.370267] acpi PNP0A08:00: FADT indicates ASPM is unsupported, using BIOS configuration
<TJ-> [    0.378300] pci 0000:00:1c.3: ASPM: current common clock configuration is broken, reconfiguring
<TJ-> [    2.409840] r8169 0000:01:00.1: can't disable ASPM; OS doesn't have ASPM control
<TJ-> So, all that suggests that despite the ACPI FADT saying there is no PCIe ASPM, the BIOS has enabled it anyhow
<TJ-> But Linux cannot control it
<OerHeks> lolz .. i knew something was comming
<OerHeks> redmine server issues
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-17
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<sarnold> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey sarnold
<ducasse> good morning
<EoflaOE> hello
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<pragmaticenigma> !disco
<ubot5> Ubuntu 19.04 (Disco Dingo) is the 30th release of Ubuntu, supported until January 2020.  Release Notes: http://ubottu.com/y/dingo
<EoflaOE> Hello BluesKaj and Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> EoflaOE: Good your afternoon to ya :)
<EoflaOE> Bashing-om: Thanks. And good day to you.
<BluesKaj> hi EoflaOE, Bashing-om
<BluesKaj> & pragmaticenigma
<BluesKaj> oops
<EoflaOE> Hello BluesKaj. How was your day?
<Bashing-om> EoflaOE: Remains to be seen - I should be out on some chores - but just will put them off :P
<BluesKaj> my day is going fine thanks EoflaOE, it's not quite noon here yet
<BluesKaj> how about your's
<EoflaOE> Bashing-om: OK. | BluesKaj: It's going fine, too.
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-18
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<teadbeef> TJ- Sorry for late reply and thanks for the tip! I was working on a remote host via a VNC server. virt-manager seems great, will give it a shot.
<teadbeef> lordcirth thanks for asking. I am learning kernel stuff but I am an absolutely newbie to kernel so I figured to start with an old release
<ducasse> good morning
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<EoflaOE> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi EoflaOE
<EoflaOE> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> !info openct-tools xenial
<ubot5> Package openct-tools does not exist in xenial
<akemlenovo> Hey guys, sorry it's a bit offtopic: Does any of you knows a router that have double wifi, one for the WAN connection(instead of regular ethernet) and one for normal wifi for the LAN as usual - or some other methods to get my LAN connected to the internet through a single Wifi connection ?
<akemlenovo> It would be double natted. I can't find a way to do it atm.
<daftykins> the primary wireless network, is it a neighbours place or something?
<OerHeks> maybe openwrt accepts a 2nd wifi usb device
<akemlenovo> daftykins, Yes, but i need to have my printer, phone, laptops on my own LAN, that is then connected via Wifi to the neighbours net.
<daftykins> hopping wirelessly twice sounds like a bad way to go about it
<daftykins> there's no scope for a nice long cable from their hardware right now?
<akemlenovo> OerHeks, I'm looking at openwrt... daftykins Maybe, i'll have to see that.
<akemlenovo> Yeah it's not very common way to connect.
<akemlenovo> Anyway, thanks for the help.
<akemlenovo> https://www.amazon.fr/GL-AR300M-Converter-Pre-installed-Performance-Programmable/dp/B01I92T754?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-ffab-fr-21&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01I92T754 This might do the job.
<daftykins> very undesirable scenario to be in
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-10
<DarkTrick> daftykins, maybe I should try harder. But maybe there's more to it
<DarkTrick> tomreyn, startpage sounds interesting, thank you :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Maik_aD> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<Maik_aD> ducasse: hey :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Not much of a nap there :(
<ducasse> Bashing-om: no, i'll need another hour or two later
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Soon now will be my Nappy time :P
<ducasse> Bashing-om: enjoy it :)
<Maik_aD> talking about nap time.... bed is calling me
<marcoagpinto> hey
<lotuspsychje> wb Maik_aD
<Maik_aD> lotuspsychje: hey :)
<Bashing-om> UWN Monday: here's issue643: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue643 :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-11
<Maik_aD> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey Maik_aD
<Maik_aD> lotuspsychje: heya
<Maik_aD> coffee time
<marcoagpinto> Heya
<marcoagpinto> the demon!!!!!!
<Maik_aD> the coffee!!!!
<Maik_aD> wait... the coffee... where's my coffee?
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaa... 30 minutes until I go to the store
<marcoagpinto> now I have cola!
<marcoagpinto> the demon is happy!
<marcoagpinto> I still haven't installed 20.04.1 in a VM
<marcoagpinto> I bought a VPN and want to use it with it
<marcoagpinto> but i am a lazy arse and I would need to find where I have written how to setup the shared folder in VirtualBox
<marcoagpinto> in 18.04 there was no need to set it up
<marcoagpinto> why can't Ubuntu recognise VirtualBox out of the box? Without any need to install the guestadditions CD?
<daftykins> that component is extra crap, it wouldn't be right to pull it in auto
<Maik> order a 240GB SSD get a 480GB instead
<daftykins> score \o/
<daftykins> i got sent 2 instead of 1 once by accident, it was great
<Maik_aD> lol... yeah. It is. :D
<marcoagpinto> and the store that sold me my laptop said they were going to ship it soon and I had already received it
<marcoagpinto> so, I phoned them not to send another one
<Maik_aD> time to catch up on some sleep, been awake for almost 24 hours, including a nightshift. Chat later
<daftykins> marcoagpinto: ah that's good of you
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I am a demon with deep feelings
<Maik> good mor.... ehm... aft.... no wait.... good evening
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-12
<ducasse> good morning
<Maik> ducasse: good morning
<DarkTrick> @Wiki: Where would be a good place to propose to remove the min-width property within the wiki?
<DarkTrick> I can only view it very tiny https://imgur.com/a/mSRsNvG or I have to scroll al the time: https://imgur.com/a/YYFDb0I
<lotuspsychje> hi Maik
<Maik> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> ready for the last day in the oven :p
<lotuspsychje> rain tomorrow
<Maik> yep
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-13
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> Hello
<lotuspsychje> hi!
<marcoagpinto> how do I execute a .xz file in 20.04.1?
<marcoagpinto> is it the old issue with compressed files?
<marcoagpinto> I can't remember how I solved it months ago
<daftykins> run "file blah.xz" to see what it is, never encountered that extension before
<marcoagpinto> "tor-browser-linux64-9.5.3_en-US.tar.xz: XZ compressed data"
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> it is a compressed archive
<marcoagpinto> but in 18.04 it would autoexecute with a double-click
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: ^^
<oerheks> sudo apt-get install xz-utils
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: you mean extract instead of execute?
<marcoagpinto> no, I mean install
 * oerheks smells an onion
<marcoagpinto> just like .deb files
<marcoagpinto> :)
<oerheks> or 7zip
<oerheks> onion route is wacky :-D
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: here follow the white wabbit here: https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install-tor-browser-in-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
<marcoagpinto> oerheks: for what I understood, the xz-utils were already installed
<daftykins> marcoagpinto: .tar.xz - omg you didn't tell us the right info
<marcoagpinto> it said no files were updated blah blah
<marcoagpinto> ohhhhh
<marcoagpinto> I didn't notice the .tar
<marcoagpinto> :(
<marcoagpinto> sorry
<daftykins> noob
<daftykins> :P
<marcoagpinto> I am so stressed
<marcoagpinto> I only saw ".xz"
<lotuspsychje> buying weapons underground tonight marcoagpinto ?
<marcoagpinto> no
<marcoagpinto> just to download some adult films without no one noticing who I am
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<marcoagpinto> no one needs to know what I am downloading
<oerheks> we won't tell ..
<oerheks> send 2 bitcoins to lotuspsychje, thanks
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: for the softer things in life you can also use FF incognito mode
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaa
<marcoagpinto> it is working!
<marcoagpinto> thank you, guys
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> thank the linuxconfig oracle
<marcoagpinto> now I can download trans videos without no one knowing it is me
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> oO
<marcoagpinto> I also need to install the VPN I bought a week ago
<marcoagpinto> I will use Tor + the VPN
<lotuspsychje> wich one did you pick?
<marcoagpinto> just incase the VPN guys monitor
<marcoagpinto> HideAway from FireTrust
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> kk
<marcoagpinto> but I am scared to install it... I want it only to use the VM
<marcoagpinto> if it turns on for the entire computer, my mail provider will detect a different country and will block my mail account
<marcoagpinto> I will try it next week
<marcoagpinto> :(
<marcoagpinto> Saturday I will be back to work and I will be too stressed to configure things
<marcoagpinto> :(
<daftykins> i think your intent shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how either technology works
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: What?
<daftykins> VPN *and* Tor
<marcoagpinto> so? It is two VPNs
<marcoagpinto> double security
<daftykins> not quite
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> no it's incredibly silly
<marcoagpinto> nap time... I need to relax the stress... see you later, guys and girls :)
<marcoagpinto> the cola demon, Little Marco!
<Ussat> <daftykins> i think your intent shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how either technology work  <<---- You think ?
<daftykins> ;)
<marcoagpinto> back!
<marcoagpinto> guys, I am feeling more relaxed!
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> "In my thoughts I have seen Rings of smoke through the trees. And the voices of those who standing looking"
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje! daftykins! oerheks!
<marcoagpinto> >:) <- cola demon
<lotuspsychje> please dont highlight on random marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> sorry
<marcoagpinto> Sleipnir, Odin's horse
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I added it to the GB dictionary
<marcoagpinto> :)
<daftykins> i don't think names have a place in a dictionary?
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: :)
<marcoagpinto> they do
<marcoagpinto> "Jesus"
<marcoagpinto> should it be marked as a typo?
<daftykins> i really don't :P
<marcoagpinto> this is hard work... I am analysing word by word to see which ones are nouns
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> not sure when it will be ready
<marcoagpinto> maybe it is a life time task
 * sarnold hands marcoagpinto hands
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: A Professor from UK sent me a 145K wordlist for GB, but only 56K words from it were missing in my dictionary, and I have been also analysing one by one because there are US words mixed there :(
<marcoagpinto> I wish I could just press the "Bulk Import" button and add them all... but there are US mixed
<daftykins> i'm getting to the point in life where i can't always remember which spellings are pesky US English and which are British (:
<marcoagpinto> well, my brain is toasted right now, but "color" (US) and "colour" (UK)
<marcoagpinto> in US they usually use "o" instead of "ou"
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> my main task right now if to focus on adding plurals and possessives
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> if to=is to*
<marcoagpinto> so, I have to analyse word by word which takes a lot of time
<marcoagpinto> then the irregular plurals
<marcoagpinto> analysis -> analyses
<marcoagpinto> a -> ae
<marcoagpinto> um -> a
<marcoagpinto> automatum > automata
<daftykins> yeah i know the main stuff since i'm natively (technically) British :P but sometimes i forget the nuances
<daftykins> For example centre vs. center - or metre vs. meter
<marcoagpinto> yes
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> and I received an e-mail "In South Africa we speak British since it was a colony blah blah"
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> so, the speller is valid for several countries
<daftykins> i believe LibreOffice installs with English US, British and South African by default
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: yes, it is me who builds the .oxt
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> US, CA, GB, AU and ZA
<marcoagpinto> and who commits to Gerrit
<marcoagpinto> https://extensions.libreoffice.org/extensions/english-dictionaries
<marcoagpinto> but the South Africa maintainers vanished
<marcoagpinto> Mozilla removed support for it
<marcoagpinto> night
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-14
<JanC> daftykins: you think there are only UK & US English? wait until you learn about Australian, Canadian, Jamaican, etc. etc.
<JanC> ;)
<sarnold> en_IN confuses me to no end :)
<JanC> and all the differences inside the UK
<JanC> I mean, even inside the tiny "Dutch"-speaking part of Belgium we have several dialects/(sub-)languages etc.
<sarnold> and I understand it has striking differences from dutch as spoken in the netherlands
<sarnold> something about it being common to 'split' verbs like german -- perfectly common in the netherlands, and entirely evil in belgium
<JanC> sarnold: "standard Dutch" is (mostly) the same between both, but locally things are quite different (and it's really not a Belgium vs. The Netherlands issue, as the South of the Netherlands is generally much closer to Belgian use)
<JanC> or some Belgian use, at least
<JanC> Dutch Limburg & Belgian Limburg, both close to te German border; they have much in common with German from across the border
<JanC> and vice versa for the "German" spoken there )
<Maik> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey there maik
<Maik> hey lotuspsychje
<DarkTrick> There's clearly something wrong with the taskmanagers under Ubuntu: https://imgur.com/a/lsHnMB4 top is probably the only correct one. Or do I miss something?
<lotuspsychje> gnome and xfce are different things
<Maik> i'm missing one in that screenshot... htop
<Maik> :P
<oerheks> is this wsl?
<DarkTrick> Maik, sorry, too lazy for that :D
<Maik> lol
<DarkTrick> lotuspsychje, that sounds interesting. Are the task managers *supposed* to output different CPU loads?
<lotuspsychje> i didnt say that, i just say there are differences between gnome and xfce and differences in the way there packages work too
<lotuspsychje> comparing apples with pears
<lotuspsychje> sure one can use KDE packages on gnome too, but you might encounter differences then when ran on kde for example
<Maik> off to bed, bbl
<lotuspsychje> nite Maik
<Maik> o/
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> Heya
<marcoagpinto> The demon!
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-15
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<akem> Heya.
<akem> Hows life in Belgium?
<lotuspsychje> all good here E_Macron
<E_Macron> Hot dayz :P it's not often the case up there.
<E_Macron> I've been in Belgium few times.
<E_Macron> There is a nice bowling,its maybe Moucron city, not sure.
<E_Macron> With some french fries next to it.
<E_Macron> Some large supermarkets too.
<E_Macron> But not in the same place.
<E_Macron> Anyway...I don't like the architecture and the weather. All thoses houses made out of red bricks. So creepy. Same in north of France next to it.
<lotuspsychje> yeah a belgian has a brick in the stomac they say
<lotuspsychje> they spend all their money in a house
<lotuspsychje> morning Maik
<Maik> good morning lotuspsychje :)
<perroud> guys, I have tried to use Mode Analytics (mode dot com), PopSQL and many other tools and platform. What I am looking for: self-hosted or saas (whatever) application with SQL reusable queries, multidimensional and/or pivot table, charts and report. I am not a company or enterprise profile, but I have hundred thousand rows per each query. I am a one-man-band, try to get a really cool graphics and good quality report. the
<perroud>  point: most expensive price. do you know an application opensource and/or with low cost? the private solutions are really expensive (as Mode Analytics)
<HackerII> people
<HackerII> here is the jest of whats going on
<HackerII> pay
<HackerII> attention
<HackerII> https://www.brighteon.com/fde592b6-4efd-415a-8268-f29bf288ac65
<HackerII> thank you for your time and efforts
<tomreyn> this does not appear to be ubuntu related
<jeremy31> Seems political
<Maik> HackerII:  People are too focused on conspiracy theories, believing in things that aren't there and made up. Anyway, wrong place to post and talk about it, even in offtopic.
<HackerII> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY_AcyYMpj0
<oerheks> i usually dont click urls without proper description why you post it.
<Maik> HackerII: relegion also isn't allowed
<Maik> oerheks: Top 30 Christian songs of the decade...
<Maik> HackerII: hate to ask it but did you come here just to fool around?
<Maik>  you should read the IRC rules ;)
<oerheks> maybe that music is produced with opensource tools
<oerheks> grinn
<Maik> lol
<Maik> maybe
<Maik> but still
<oerheks> i like music .. https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6ywqjtkr73t8vg/2018music.png?dl=0
<oerheks> ubuntu-studio is awesome for that
<Maik> made a demo once with Ubuntu Studio in Enigma style years ago but never finished it
<Maik> https://soundcloud.com/maik-ad/demoechoes
<oerheks> Verified developers, a total of 79 developers, have published 382 Snaps.
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-16
<oerheks> wow
<oerheks> thanks paragon
<oerheks> https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/2911ac5cd20b46e397be506268718d74@paragon-software.com/
<oerheks> This patch adds NTFS Read-Write driver to fs/ntfs3.
<tomreyn> hmm, Signed-off-by: Konstantin Komarov <almaz.alexandrovich@paragon-software.com>
<sonicwind> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Paragon-Read-Write-NTFS-Linux
<oerheks> jups
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<oerheks> jups
<Maik> yawn
<Maik> good morning
<Maik> time to hit the sack in an hour or so
<TJ-> I feel an idiot :)
<tomreyn> where do you see one?
<TJ-> in my seat!
<TJ-> Spent the last few days wrestling with BigBlueButton install/config (multimedia conferencing server) where each time the HTML5 client tries to do the initial audio echo-test it just sits there and doesn't test; and blocks
<tomreyn> hmm
<TJ-> This morning finally figured out it is because at some point in the distant past, in my Firefox profile, to increase privacy I set media.peerconnection.enabled=false which broke it!
<tomreyn> oh :) i did that, too
<TJ-> Lesson to self: ALWAYS test on other systems when it doesn't work form your developer workstation!
<tomreyn> i guess "try with a new browser profile" is often good enough
<TJ-> you can come join me on our test server if you like - prove I can transmit to others!
<TJ-> https://meet.bhive.community
<TJ-> I've done an overnight shift to get this figured out
<tomreyn> let's see, i dont have a webcam on this system, but mic should be doable
<TJ-> don't need cam; it's text/audio/video/whiteboard/presentations
<TJ-> you can confirm mine is working though!
<tomreyn> hmm first two mics not detected by computer, but i should have another
<TJ-> tomreyn: don't worry about them; just check if you can join the meeting and can see/hear me
<tomreyn> oh, too late, i just got the working mic
<TJ-> I love it when technology finally works!
<tomreyn> YEAY! now you can finally look into why some weird corner case configurations don't work that some important people insist on using.
<TJ-> Biggest bug-bear with BBB is, it requires 16.04 and they're only just started working on 18.04 !
<tomreyn> uh really, that's sad.
<TJ-> However, that led me to discover that we can ROUTE IP addresses into LXD containers
<tomreyn> i guess they're more aligned to debian?
<TJ-> no, they only publish/recommend Ubuntu 16.04
<tomreyn> hmm i see
<TJ-> they have so many major dependencies on other projects, big problem for Debian-ising would be Mongodb
<tomreyn> oh yes
<TJ-> lxc config device add $CONTAINER nic nictype=routed ipv4.address=a.b.c.d ipv6.address=aaaa.bbbb.cccc.dddd::1
<TJ-> ^^ whilst container is stopped
<tomreyn> nice
<TJ-> and I think I missed out the i/f name used in the container
<TJ-> Then you have to remember to stop the host from configuring those addresses (another duh! moment I had when it didn't work initially)
<TJ-> For accuracy: " lxc config device add $ContainerName eth1 nic nictype=routed parent=eno1 ipv4.address=a.b.c.d ipv6.address=aaaa:bbbb:cccc:dddd::1 "
<tomreyn> " eth1 nic " is probably wrong?
<TJ-> that came from my bash history :)
<tomreyn> oh, ik guess your bash history never lies
<tomreyn> still a nicer syntax than qemu
<TJ-> it sure beats messing with bridges or NAT
<TJ-> and a lot simpler than k8s/k3s
<daftykins> good morning gents
<tomreyn> good morning, daftykins
 * TJ- waves to his 'man on the inside' :)
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> agent kins reporting for duty
<TJ-> :P
<TJ-> my councillor friend confirms we have the correct target
<TJ-> I think he expects you're gonna conduct a nighttime raid on their offices :D
<daftykins> i might be able to get Mischief to search the premises for mice through an open window
<TJ-> LOL
<TJ-> robotic cat maybe!?
<daftykins> if it's the same office as i see from my home here, they have those big slide-closed and lockable filing cupboards at the back
<daftykins> so there'll be no super tiny covert camera snaps and micro-film i imagine ;)
<TJ-> daftykins: ahhh, aim a camera at their screens :D
<daftykins> \o/
 * daftykins returns with coffee and cereal
<daftykins> i think i've found a viable option to convert a client's old Microsoft Works documents, hah
<daftykins> recently moved him up to newer software and now he can't open his old docs
<lotuspsychje> hey akem
<akem> Ahoy lotuspsychje.
<oerheks> hggdh, not sure who to talk to, see kline in #ubuntu about tor / ubuntu-fr docs
<tomreyn> "kline" being a nickname
<oerheks> yes, freenode staff
<oerheks> good spot, tom
