#ubuntu-artwork 2005-07-24
<Amaranth> We need lilo to op someone so they can register the channel
<mpathy> hi there
<Amaranth> hi
<mpathy> How do you do? Where are you from? How are you involved into the artwork-team / wanna be involved into it? :)
<Amaranth> I'm fine. I'm from Sioux City, Iowa, USA. I'm not involved directly and don't wish to be at this time, I just come here to complain about things and try to get them fixed. :)
<mpathy> ;O)
<mpathy> I am not really involved right now, but I want to. What are your complaints?
<mpathy> hi lukacu 
<lukacu> hi...
<lukacu> not much going on ... huh?
<mpathy> because we all working :oP :o)
<mpathy> lucky student you :o)
<lukacu> ;)
<mpathy> i am a little bit confused about this type of working, with mailing lists, irc and wiki.. it seems to me a little uncentralized etc.
<lukacu> me too ... but it is everything new to me ... e.g. this is my first english chat :)
<mpathy> hehe
<mpathy> lucky student you :o
<mpathy> oh sorry
<mpathy> not again
<lukacu> lol
<mpathy> my cursor key
<mpathy> damn
<mpathy> :)
<lukacu> well ... must go now ... see ya
<lukacu> have fun ;)
<mpathy> cu.. i should work too
<googol65> hiyall
<lukacu> hi :)
<googol65> i signed into ubuntu-atrwork the last days and need some help
<lukacu> yes? ... do go on
<googol65> will u understand me speaking german ? :)
<lukacu> lol ... probably not ... but you can try ... after all i had german lessons for four years .... not that i can remember much ...
<googol65> ok ill try, so exuse my bad english
<lukacu> no problem
<googol65> id like to participate designing icons and backgrounds...are their any rules i have to follow?....like, do i have to use existing themes or icons, or can i do what  i want?
<lukacu> :) ... there are guides and rules being written by Andy Fitzsimon ... but they are not complete (i think so) ... you can look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconGuide ... that's for icons ... i do not know about backgrounds
<lukacu> you should mail to art team mailing list and wait for the answer...
<googol65> ok, thanks :)
<googol65> cya :) 
<lukacu> bye...
<wingsline> morning, evening ad g'day everybody
<lukacu> i prefer evening ;) ... hi
<wingsline> lukacu, where are you from?
<lukacu> slovenia :)
<wingsline> cool, originally I'm from romania
<lukacu> and now you live in ... ?
<wingsline> usa
<lukacu> :) ... and you know where is slovenia?
<lukacu> it is not something 'that' obvious ... that is why i'm asking ...
<wingsline> no not yet :)
<lukacu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenia ... you do now ;)
<wingsline> yeah, i know about slovenia
<wingsline> my brother was there
<lukacu> :)
<mpathy> hi
<lukacu> hi
<mpathy> is there a icon preview, of that set they plan to do?
<lukacu> dont know ... 
* wingsline is away: I'm busy
<Nafallo> mpathy: yea. http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/humility-icons.tar.bz2
<mpathy> Nafallo: ok thanks
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-17
<wachunei> hello?
<mhb> wachunei: it's a bit late here
<mhb> wachunei: hello to you too
<wachunei> thanks mhb , do you only speak english?
<wachunei> nevermind, i have an inkscape question, may i ask here?
<mhb> some #inkscape channel could be better, I think
<mhb> but you can ask (I don't know if I can answer, too)
<wachunei> i need a perspective transform
<AndyFitz> see you in #inkscape wachunei
<AndyFitz> ;-)
<mhb> wachunei: I think he's right ... (I'm too tired to answer)
<troy_s> greetz mad
<Madpilot> hi troy_s
<troy_s> well i guess i should contact sheet the new stuffs.
<troy_s> grr.
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* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<kwwii> moin
<klepas> g'morgen
<cyanescent> ahoy
<troy_s> cyanescent, HES BACK
<troy_s> yo niel you in bro?
<cyanescent> hey yup.. thank god for the internet connection at this uni
<cyanescent> had a panic session this morning though -- got a pone call at 8.30 saying I had to leave by 12 ;-(
<troy_s> what happeend?
<cyanescent> some misunderstanding... the house is given to us on lease by the uni. but they're all a bunch of nutty physicists with no idea how to plan accommodation.. so yesterday evening we got a family of 4 dropping in with the same keys saying they'd booked the room
<cyanescent> I don't know the uni phoned saying they'd told us.. but they hadn't
<cyanescent> so we thought we'd also got our bike stolen today... but it turns out the uni was scoping the bike stands to reclaim bikes without telling people either...
<cyanescent> thank god I don't study here..
<troy_s> eek
<troy_s> sorry... i was mailing
<cyanescent> brb..check on food
<cyanescent> I saw mark's post.. sounds very confusing
<troy_s> Yep
<troy_s> But I tried to make a little sense of it.
<cyanescent> not sure whether there is enough agreement between what the AC wants and the CC wants
<troy_s> What I think he wants is for all development to pick up from the LSplash events.
<troy_s> Well... there is no Art Council yet
<troy_s> That said,
<cyanescent> is Frank not AC ?
<troy_s> frank is the artist in cheif
<troy_s> yes.
<troy_s> this is why i was pressuring the point
<troy_s> to get some clear direction from above... it requires a little work, but i think i have a pretty good handle on where to go in the immediate future...
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
(kwwii/#ubuntu-artwork) troy_s: I think so
(cyanescent/#ubuntu-artwork) we really need a run down on what we need in submissions
(kwwii/#ubuntu-artwork) which one are we talking about?
(troy_s/#ubuntu-artwork) you see the lsplash mockups i forwarded?  they are pretty simple and plain, but with a distinct difference per version (subject to sizing composition, position etc)
(troy_s/#ubuntu-artwork) the "Ubuntu" gloss... here.
(troy_s/#ubuntu-artwork) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/GlassyLogo
(troy_s/#ubuntu-artwork) the problem that i have with the illustrative gloss
(cyanescent/#ubuntu-artwork) brb... need to cook
(mhb/#ubuntu-artwork) kwwii: what wallpaper do you have in mind?
<troy_s> was one that i brought up in paris -- it isn't easily extrapolated across a wallpaper
<troy_s> or a larger area...
<troy_s> so i need some good sketch proposals on a way to integrate it
<troy_s> weidel's work has a good little background attempt that MIGHT work with it.
<kwwii> mhb: not sure, feel free to keep proposing ideas :-)
<kwwii> ahhh, yes, I did help him a little
<troy_s> then we can bind the three things into one professional feel.
<troy_s> (which is my main concern, i only bothered to contribute to at least get the ball rolling -- sometimes getting 'no' is better than getting nothing :) )
<troy_s> kwwii:  you see my issue?
<kwwii> I am still reading the emails :-)
<kwwii> ok, so you want to make wiedels gloss stuff a bit more like the tangerine gloss look that who made?
<troy_s> actually no
<troy_s> i need you to brainstorm on how to take the illustrative simple gloss
<troy_s> present on the human folder and who's logo
<troy_s> and figure out a nice way to get that integrated into something on a wallpaper
<troy_s> with a variant for a gdm
<troy_s> with me?
<troy_s> because obviously the wallpaper lacks logo etc.
<troy_s> weidel's wallpaper has one set that has a good background that MIGHT be a starting point.
<kwwii> one second, wife
<troy_s> good name for a band
<troy_s> "One Second Wife"
<cyanescent> heheh
<kwwii> hehe
<troy_s> cyanescent, did frank talk to you about the illuminating meshes yet?
<cyanescent> no. I suppose I should give him the gmail account
<troy_s> i think that gloss can be easily transitionned into a very 'illustrative' gloss via a few oil canvas passes
<troy_s> laf.
<kwwii> hrm
<troy_s> its very easy... oil canvas then selective gaussian blurs stacked up
<troy_s> ends up looking very illustrative
<kwwii> the problem about the gloss on the logo is that it has a hard line, not sure how easy that is to put in a bg
<troy_s> that said, i would really
<troy_s> exactly!
<cyanescent> heh... well it's one style or another IMO. 3D doesn't always work, and if sabdfl doesn't want, there is no need to go further down that road
<troy_s> that's why i need you to pound out some sketches... look to some sort of obscure shapes that would be well suited to the background.
<kwwii> well, I would make the background soft and fuzzy, then it doesn't matter
<troy_s> cyanescent, agree... but this is for futures :)
<kwwii> something like fyre produces with nice gradients
<troy_s> soft and fuzzy doesn't carry the same gloss though
<troy_s> and carrying the gloss is one step towards achieving the professionalism we are looking for
<troy_s> so that things feel cohesive...
<troy_s> here... let me snag the link.
<cyanescent> troy_s can't you just remix some of the colours on your backgrounds ?
<cyanescent> fyre with honey ?
<cyanescent> well... fyre has many lines which may get in the way of the hard line
<troy_s> cyanescent, it is easy to get variants into usable items if you realize that proposals are very loose.
<troy_s> kwwii
<troy_s> kwwii https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/WallpaperProposal
<troy_s> top two under Weidel's proposal section
<troy_s> those shapes would fit to gloss well i think
<troy_s> and they are quite stylish
<troy_s> cyanescent, it is very easy when you have a full team of artists to look at bigger pictures, but when you are liasing with folks who aren't artist inclined, it can be difficult at first.
<kwwii> troy_s: you mean the rendered grey and brown stuff (that looks so damn cool)?
<troy_s> the brown set
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> minus the brand
<troy_s> something like waves with the gloss applied over it?
<troy_s> is where i am thinking
<troy_s> and this is sort of your forte, so you could be of great assistance.
<kwwii> I would suggest staying away from that idea....I actually just tried it not to long ago, and it tends to make things look funky (you only notice that it looks like glass from far away because of the size of the effect
<troy_s> well weidel's is simple enough to work
<troy_s> it is already glossy (not in the same style though)
<troy_s> and it isn't too busy
<kwwii> I think that if you use the same kind of gradients as in the logo in his abstract bg stuff it will do the trick
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> that background with a subtle gloss twint across the tops of the emboss
<troy_s> although the shapes are completely arbitrary
<troy_s> i have a few folks working in that direction now.
<troy_s> and i would dearly appreciate your help.
<kwwii> troy_s: look at http://bootsplash.org/edgy3a.png
<kwwii> you mean that kind of effect (only not soo pronounced, etc.)?
<troy_s> hold...downing
<troy_s> the top gloss... basically white to transparent (if i remember correctly) in a sweepy curve, top to bottom, across a good series of shapes.  Coupled with a gradient.
<troy_s> pretty basic, but i think we can limit this game of battleship if we get a bunch of stuff like that on the table.
<troy_s> OK I LIED
<troy_s> looking at the folder again
<troy_s> it is white gloss on top
<troy_s> looks like an almost radial grad too, no?  how do you do it?
<kwwii> that is the problem
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/GlassyLogo
<troy_s> well just make a bunch of curves on the background, and emboss them
<troy_s> then apply your technique
<troy_s> how's that?
<troy_s> with me?
<kwwii> well, it is simply a gradient from white to transparent, but it gets cut off by the curve
<kwwii> it is really simple
<troy_s> yes...
<troy_s> so we need curves
<troy_s> because that sells it
<troy_s> so a few abstract wavy lines...
<kwwii> to which pic?, the brown version from wiedel with a logo in it?
<troy_s> i can bang out some sketches if it would help for a given background.
<kwwii> or something new, you mean?
<troy_s> well i cited that as a starting point because he managed to take some
<troy_s> rather
<troy_s> unobtrusive 'shapes', emboss them slightly
<troy_s> which makes for a potential sweepy gloss application
<troy_s> so i think it is a step in the right direction
<troy_s> with some good gradients.
<kwwii> I see what you mean now
<troy_s> also, think towards grad'ing the stroke for the sweep as i find that to be quite slick (in the future... don't worry right now)
<cyanescent> this is for LSplash, right?
<troy_s> http://www.noscope.com/journal/assets/openhouse_0804/osx_bg.jpg
<troy_s> this is for all targets
<troy_s> that is a good example of the sweep lines
<kwwii> LSPlash? what is that?
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> yeah
<troy_s> except with the kwwii gloss
<kwwii> I did quite a lot of that stuff 5 years ago
<troy_s> make it work on the big
<troy_s> then we can migrate it to the smaller (lsplash)
<troy_s> and get the proper hues
<troy_s> i would like to see something distinct if we can manage it...
<troy_s> but that is the needed direction
<troy_s> i think we will score more hits than misses if we travel that way.
<kwwii> what is the lsplash?
<kwwii> usplash, you mean?
<kwwii> I will whip something up a bit later...working on something atm
<troy_s> lsplash
<troy_s> logon splash
<troy_s> as in the splash between logon and wallpaper
<kwwii> ahaaa, I see
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/LSplashProposal
<troy_s> where light grey is complete transparency
<troy_s> and the pill is subject to gloss etc.
<kwwii> gotcha
<troy_s> http://www.flickr.com/photos/wester/38490644/in/set-740780/
<troy_s> here is some interesting sort of lines that might work, seastian just has been sending them to me.
<troy_s> http://www.flickr.com/photos/wester/34207376/in/set-740780/
<troy_s> but more abstract
<troy_s> the lines are terrific for that sort of thing though
<kwwii> nifty
<troy_s> http://www.flickr.com/photos/wester/35180260/in/set-740780/
<troy_s> i don't know... something to give you some lines :)
<viper550> Hello
<viper550> I just realized that you can use Opera as an IRC program too!
<troy_s> That's Terrific!
<viper550> But I still kinda prefer x-chat
<viper550> Can Gimp open PSD files?
<troy_s> yes
<Viper550> Does anyone know how to suggest fonts in metathemes?
<Who_> Hi all
<kwwii> hi Who
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> Who_:
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> you get the point
<Who_> indeed
<Who_> I've been doing some work trying to make a gdm proposal a bit like the Dapper Splash - I could do with some opinion
<kwwii> Who_: could you post your blue bubble pic on the list and perhaps add it to the wiki page suggesting it for use in kubuntu?
<Who_> s
<Who_> yea, for sure :)
<Who_> Where do proposals live on the wiki?
<kwwii> Who_: I guess on the same pages as the others
<Who_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals - there?
<kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/WallpaperProposal  sounds like the right place
<Who_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/GDMProposal
<Who_> thoughts?
<kwwii> I think that the bg needs to be a bit more complex, with some hints of the gradients used in the title grapihc
<kwwii> but otherwise, I love it :-)
<Who_> yea, the title graphic does stand out a bit
<kwwii> it looks nice
<kwwii> but the bg is a bit too simple for oit
<kwwii> it
<troy_s> who
<troy_s> yay
<troy_s> very nice work who_
<troy_s> terrific
<troy_s> only a couple problems as i can see Who_
<Who_> not quite 'proposy' enough, I worry
<troy_s> nope
<troy_s> its very good...
<Who_> cool, suggest away
<troy_s> have you tried it against the pre-rendered area for the gdm?
<troy_s> i think it is terrific
<troy_s> can you do up some more with different stylings?
<troy_s> like the placement of the logo plus text?
<troy_s> 1) ship me your glossy logo -- it looks wonderful
<troy_s> 2) mock up some more variations on the gdm, try this as a suggestion box:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/LSplashProposal
<Who_> lol, it doesn't when you scrutinise it :P!
<troy_s> 3) ship me as many as you can -- don't worry about resolutions
<troy_s> no its perfect for proposal phase.
<Who_> I am scaling them all donw at the moment, because they look bad on the wiki
<troy_s> well just give them to me
<troy_s> you use imagemagick?
<troy_s> imagemagick will contact sheet them very quickly and easily
<troy_s> i will contact sheet all the current viables... like weidel's approach (minus the brand)
<Who_> well, then I will use that :) - can you give me some quick hints to save me tha man page?
<troy_s> my only thought would be -- busy up the background a bit, so that the contrasts look more like gloss
<troy_s> with me?
<troy_s> right now they are so simple in tone (which is good -- we will provide a gradual progression)
<troy_s> that you can't really see the gloss.
<Who_> I will do many variations. Just gimmie a little while
<troy_s> its very good, and my gut tells me it is pretty much what sabdfl is looking for... can you ship me them via email when you are done?
<troy_s> i'll wiki them all together with the others...
<troy_s> Who_?
<troy_s> as i said, just bust out as many as you can (don't worry about any form of polishing), and try to work the gloss up.
<Who_> troy_s: I will zip up a whole load and email
<troy_s> terrific work though.
<troy_s> thanks for coming back
<troy_s> you were horribly missed :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-18
<Who_> well, I have another holiday soon :S I'll get all I can done now...
<troy_s> also...
<troy_s> if you can ship me the layers in xcf that would help -- i can bang out some compositional variants
<troy_s> so that we get a good contact sheet up
<Who_> the xcf is 10.8 mb atm
<troy_s> how about shipping this:
<troy_s> a) the logo with your primary gloss pass in transparent png format sole
<troy_s> b) some of the mock ups (at say, 640x480 jpg)
<troy_s> i have your logo already, which i used for bumping the mocks out of the gdm
<troy_s> erm
<troy_s> lsplash
<troy_s> as you can see.
<troy_s> the light grey will be completely transparent
<troy_s> the white pill will be treated with the same 'design' that we arrive at
<troy_s> you get the idea i am sure.
<troy_s> Who_, are you using a linear gradient to get that gloss?
<troy_s> Who_, because it appears to conform to the stroke line
<Who_> troy_s: Which gloss do you mean?
<troy_s> say on the logo
<troy_s> see the sweeping 's' wave?
<troy_s> that goes from transparent to white?
<troy_s> Who_, ?
<troy_s> also:  kick up the gradients a bit... notice how mysterious the gradient is for default dapper?  head that way with a few mocks.
<Who_> I can't go fast enough!!! ;)
<troy_s> Who_, and if you get them to me on a wiki or something, i can contact them all and announce the progress.
<Who_> Will do
<kwwii> so here is what I worked on this evening: http://bootsplash.org/test-edgy.png
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/WallpaperProposal?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=wallpaper_weidel_metalbrown.png
<kwwii> it still needs some work, but it is coming right along, I think
<kwwii> and it uses the new official colors
<troy_s> very slick kwwii
<troy_s> do you have some variations?
<Who_> cool
<troy_s> kwwii:  i would love to see the curve gloss applied to the kubuntu logo
<troy_s> it looks very good.
<Who_> A little suggestion: enhance the gap between the heads and the 'bodies'
<troy_s> variations :)
<troy_s> variations are very useful
<mhb> kwwii: looks nice
<troy_s> ideally you get 20 or so banged out around a given thematic
<troy_s> who
<troy_s> did you get that image?  that's weidel's and i think he has some curves that you might be able to work with
<troy_s> to get a good gloss feel.
<mhb> kwwii: can you post the SVG version ?
<troy_s> Who_, here are some more good curves to try:  http://sensitivelight.com/smoke2/
<kwwii> troy_s: I did a proposal for a curved gloss on the logo for dapper, but it fell through
<kwwii> mhb: sure, one second
<troy_s> http://sensitivelight.com/smoke2/?image=5
<troy_s> no
<Who_> troy_s: do you know how these are made!? theya re great
<troy_s> that ponder was just for textural references... believe me ... the whole point of the exercise is to get the bloody folks to comment
<troy_s> and steer development
<kwwii> colored smoke, some killer shit
<troy_s> so we don't get caught in a glut at the end.
<troy_s> http://sensitivelight.com/smoke2/?image=15
<troy_s> take the curves
<troy_s> gloss them
<troy_s> simplify .
<troy_s> just use them as loose basis.
<kwwii> also very nifty
<troy_s> http://picture.sensitivelight.com/smoke2/18.jpg
<troy_s> anyways... you get the idea.
<troy_s> i think those are distinct enough for curves
<troy_s> and we can gloss them relatively easily.
<Who_> you are suggesting using the shapes as curves for gloss - I.E for the shape of the 'highlight' on the logo?
<kwwii> mhb: http://bootsplash.org/edgy_logo_idea1.svg
<mhb> kwwii: thank you very much
<kwwii> no problem, I think I will post it on the wiki as well :D
<kwwii> Who_: should I add your bubble bg to that wiki page for kubuntu?
<Who_> Oh, sorry - I am doing the GDM things still!
<Who_> I'll do it now :)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> no hurry, just wanted to be of assistance
<troy_s> just posted to the list
<troy_s> so let's keep me updated so i can collate the items
<kwwii> Who_: not that I want to be stupid, but is that BG taken from the fedora bg (only scaled in really far)?
<Who_> my one?
<Who_> kwwii: Wallpaper, GDM, all of it is original in work but obviously not in ideas
<kwwii> yeah, sorry to ask such a stupid question, but it occured, and you never know
<Who_> which one where you meaning, out of interest?
<kwwii> no, I mean the bubble wallpaper
<troy_s> spheres
<Who_> :P That was done ages ago... just hung about a bit until now...
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/BrownBubbles
<troy_s> that one i think he means
<troy_s> great work though who_
<kwwii> yes, only the blue version from kde-look.org
<kwwii> it rocks
<troy_s> top notch... and hopefully we can get enough variations out to stimulate a little cross-polination
<troy_s> have you seen jmaks new gloss logo?
<kwwii> I would suggest some improvements, but all in all it is an interesting idea to follow
<kwwii> nope, link?
<troy_s> of course... the point is to not steer the boat too far just yet...
<troy_s> hold on.
<mhb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/XubuntuEdgy/Proposals
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/XubuntuEdgy/Proposals
<mhb> troy_s: sorry for doing it first
<kwwii> hehe, I dig the ubuntu logo
<kwwii> the last one is best, because it does not have such freaky 3D-ness
<kwwii> it seems like glass
<kwwii> I kinda stole the idea of the curved highlight in the kubuntu logo I posted before from that pic actually
<troy_s> mhb You are too fast damn you
<troy_s> kwwii -- well davinci, picasso, and a plethora of other artists subjected their work to peer review.
<troy_s> kwwii -- it's the nature of the beast.
<troy_s> further, we get a certain similarity if this happens naturally, which i think is terrific.
<kwwii> troy_s: to be honest, I am honest enough to admit that nothing we do is new....music is the same way, all arts are, I guess
<kwwii> the idea is that we should all be playing in the same chord :-)
<troy_s> bingo
<kwwii> so that ideas from one can also apply to the other
<kwwii> which is pretty much the case
<troy_s> absolutely... and we are making very good progress
<kwwii> it is amazing for me, as kde artist
<kwwii> normally, everything we do is way to playfull and contrasty
<troy_s> i had to nag sabdfl to get some feedback, but it was important
<troy_s> well contrast is technically a polish / produce defined element.
<troy_s> not worth getting too caught up so early.
<kwwii> while here we have the same design ideas, with different color/saturation usage and things are still really close
<troy_s> yep... and during that final polish
<troy_s> the pushers
<troy_s> can tweak the finals
<kwwii> the ideas behind it are still more important than the implementation
<troy_s> into a very similar ballpark if it is warranted
<troy_s> absolutely!
<troy_s> again, the only glaring hole right now
<troy_s> although Who_ made some good progress
<kwwii> now if someone would brainwash me into loving wiki writing kubuntu would be on course too
<troy_s> is getting the 'larger' gloss look so that we can interpolate across the lsplash etc background
<troy_s> wiki writing is pretty darn useful... and it has some pretty damn powerful macros
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> kwwii -- if you can churn out the work for the variations, i'll happily imagemagick it all
<troy_s> but we need a good deal of quantity
<troy_s> in the mocks
<troy_s> and just so you know, i target a tile geometry of 260 for the contacts
<troy_s> so don't worry about too high res.
<kwwii> yeah, I promised mhb I would start it tomorrow
<troy_s> they scale quite nicely.
<kwwii> I just need to put all the pieces together that I have so far
<troy_s> just ship me links
<kwwii> and let others add to that
<troy_s> i will at least get the contact sheet out
<troy_s> and that helps others.
<kwwii> ok, deal
<troy_s> great
<kwwii> I will send you links tomorrow to everything
<troy_s> i am very impressed with the talent level of the folks who are already around here.
<kwwii> I am ready for bed now
<Who_> troy - I'm about to upload 5 variations of the glassy gdm. How do you want them?
<troy_s> there is certainly a large enough pool with diverse enough skill sets to get a good deal accomplished.
<troy_s> email me a link
<troy_s> put a private wiki page up
<troy_s> and email me the link
* mhb wishes he had talent
<troy_s> i'll contact everything into an organized fashion
<kwwii> me too, things are working out really well, in a totally new cross-desktop kinda way
<troy_s> kwwii -- the biggest stumbling block
<troy_s> was getting the powers that be to start 'snooping' in on the development process
<kwwii> troy_s: I agree, but here it seems to be no problem at all
<troy_s> which is why having it transparent with deadlines and such is very important.
<kwwii> I mean, the people who want to do things do things, and it has little to do with arguing, etc.
<troy_s> hopefully if the teams deliver, the next phase will buy us some flexibility etc.
<kwwii> yepp
<troy_s> i would say that we got lucky and
<troy_s> sabdfl gave some good feedback
<troy_s> (after some prodding)
<troy_s> which helps me to get a clearer picture of where he would like to see the shape go.
<troy_s> because he DOES have an idea, but not much vocabulary to explain it in a useful way to artists.
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> I could have told you he would say that
<kwwii> I have a pretty good idea of what he wants
<kwwii> he definitely has a vision
<troy_s> well i had a pretty good idea too... but sometimes you need to get the absolute rule.
<troy_s> and that means getting several things on the table up front
<troy_s> so that he can go 'yay nay nay yay nay' etc
<troy_s> which was a missing step
<troy_s> again why i am deadset against overpolishing.
<kwwii> I guess the fact that I met him once before you did
<troy_s> spit it out, steer the boat.
<kwwii> yepp, "just do it"
<troy_s> further, the stuff that is pouring in now is getting more and more refined, which is very good.
<troy_s> it isn't completely scattered like a hand grenade.
<kwwii> I have found that we often ask too many questions of "those in charge" and should instead think of what they want to get out of all of this, and try to satisify that in the best way we can
<kwwii> if we do it well enough, we loose, if we pull it off, we as a community get to do what we want
<troy_s> exactly
<troy_s> but the trick here is appeasing that one fellow who hasn't given us a distinct wiki page for direcitonality.
<troy_s> :)
<troy_s> we are building it as we go, so it is helping.
<kwwii> well, appeasing the guy who is paying a lot of money for us to make this possible
<troy_s> exactly
<troy_s> el bingo
<kwwii> his vision is not that narrow
<kwwii> it just very good
<kwwii> and he knows when something is "right"
<kwwii> so let's give him that
<troy_s> no, but if we can deliver up to expectations, we can probably expand the genre in the future.
<kwwii> the fact that he checks in all the time on the list shows his interest
<troy_s> well whether or not everyone sees it as right is irrelevant :)
<kwwii> I am sure he has a thousand other things to do
<troy_s> yep... immensly busy
<kwwii> anyway...about time for bed
<mhb> kwwii: goodnight
<troy_s> okie
<troy_s> get me those damn links soon kwwii
<troy_s> and bang out variations
<troy_s> if you have layers
<kwwii> I will do it first thing tomorrow
<troy_s> and can offer up a distinct set of variations
<troy_s> great.
<troy_s> thanks a million
<troy_s> oh look... i just got mail from viper
<troy_s> and tropic
<troy_s> i don't think that he realizes a proposal is generally something that you have done
<kwwii> :-)
<troy_s> :)
<kwwii> night man, see you tomorrow (with links, of course)
<kwwii> guess I will add Who_'s wallpaper to the wiki and pass out
<Who_> I'm just doing it :P
<kwwii> whether he likes it or not! :-)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> I tried to sound threatening
<troy_s> who_ squeeze out as many variations as you can okie?
<Who_> literally - the page is in my browser
<kwwii> if you post the svg I can play with it as well
<Who_> of the blue bubbles - I will post the ones i have, but they are _all_ worse than the final
<kwwii> I have a good idea (I think)
<Who_> unfortunately the bubbles is a _terrible_ xcf - the whole thing is only 5 layers or so :S
<kwwii> don't worry about it being final
<kwwii> that is not the point, at this stag
<kwwii> stage
<troy_s> who_ loosen up bro...
<troy_s> :)
<troy_s> don't sweat the small details.  anyone with any level of maturity should be able to spot the direction and build on it.
<kwwii> to be honest, I think it has too much contrast now, but I honestly think that with a bit of work it could be *the* bg for kubuntu
<kwwii> but then again, that is just what i think...if you post it, everyone can say what they think about it and we will get much further
<Who_> I'm just looking back at the variations I have
<Who_> how big is too big for a wiki attachment?
<troy_s> need linsk whosy
<troy_s> well neil put 7 megs of ubuntu gloss up
<troy_s> in a tarball
<troy_s> so...
<troy_s> but all i really need are a series in the 640 width zone
<troy_s> or 500 even
<mhb> kwwii: I think we should get more different proposals for *the* bg
<mhb> kwwii: or rather - some different proposals, a lot more variations
<troy_s> mhb:  variations are key.
<kwwii> mhb: of course...one of the pics I will post tomorrow is an updated version of the last official kde bg
<mhb> troy_s: I got it ... believe it or not, I'm reading your conversation and trying to get the best of it :o)
<kwwii> not sure if that design is best, but it is worth thinking about
<kwwii> the idea at this stage is to collect ideas and think about the future
<Who_> kwwii: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/KubuntuWallpaperProposals
<kwwii> not have the final ultimate shit
<Who_> I'm just sending a mail to the list
<kwwii> erm, sure the spelling is correct?
<Who_> spelling where?
<Who_> it probably isn't!
<Who_> ohh, sorry kwwii - try now (that wonderful little think - the save page button :P)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> thanks a lot
<kwwii> I really appreciate it
<Who_> and troy_s: just for you :P https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/GDMProposal
<Who_> I like the bottom one best
<troy_s> thanks
<troy_s> i like the ones with the extra variations of sweep lines
<troy_s> they look more complex
<troy_s> personally, it would be nice to see some with the same technique across the pill (with gloss)
<troy_s> and different lines against background
<troy_s> with me?
<troy_s> offer a little contrast in the content?
<mhb> kwwii: I'm comparing your new logo with the old one
<troy_s> the fourth one is nice Who_ in terms of tonal gradients...
<mhb> kwwii: it's so much better I can't believe my eyes :o)
<Who_> troy_s: they use the 'brown bubbles' wallpaper with a heft motion blur :P
<troy_s> yah i see that...
<troy_s> i am actually pretty content with the lines alone, but perhaps with greater gradients to give that contrast...
<troy_s> also try to distribute your centers of gravity
<troy_s> notice how all the lines are flowing towards the middle?  even compositional distribution would provide another great variant.
<Who_> I'm not quite clear exactly what you are suggesting - making the white glassy bit more varied, adding some lines to it, or enchancing the BG a bit?
<Who_> right, will have a play
<troy_s> Who_, A) the pill - the area where the logon render drops -- alter the lines so that they are different than the background lines
<troy_s> so that it looks 'on top of'
<troy_s> B) try some without the background blur, but keep the brown tones and use those as a gradient from a slightly more complicated lining technique
<troy_s> C) Compositionally distribute your line sweeps
<troy_s> that should give you a good variety in a short period of time.
<troy_s> D) in inkscape you can stroke the lines with a gradient -- you might want to experiment with that too... it is a very good effect
<troy_s> and you might want to try perhaps making the logo and text exceed the pill as per some of the mockups... they can offer good compositional variants... if you give me the layers, i can fart with the compositional end of things.
<Who_> yea, I'm just packaging up an XCF.bz2
<troy_s> damn fine work though who_
<kwwii> troy_s: I will include some of the stuff I made for dapper in my links
<troy_s> absolutely
<troy_s> i just really want to get some good look feels out there in a cohesive and easily scannable package
<troy_s> not massive bitmaps to scroll past.
<troy_s> who do you do all your work with gimp?
<Who_> troy_s: No - I very rarely use it - tonight for those GDM things is the first time in about a year. I much prefer Inkscape normall, hence the svg glassy font and logo and all the other stuff being SVG. There are just some things that I think it is easier to do in raster no vector - like drop shadows and nice rounded gradients
<troy_s> Who_, are those linear grads?
<Who_> no, they are strange things got by Guassian blurring a rounded rectangle or a rounded 'hole' (I.E transparent rounded rect on a white BG) and then chopping out the inverse of the shape
<troy_s> whoa... go again?
<troy_s> the swoops?
<Who_> in order to get the drop shadows I made the shape of the 'pill', filled it black, deselected all and blurred it. I then reselected the original shape (I had saved the selection to a path) and cleared the middle so that the black was only around the edge.
<troy_s> not so much the drop... the scripts do drops well enough
<troy_s> but the swoop grads
<troy_s> seem to almost contour to the sweeping line
<Who_> swoop!? I made a swoop?
<troy_s> i still have yet to find an efficient way to do that
<troy_s> the lines crossing the gdm mocks
<troy_s> the slightly curved lines
<Who_> the dark brown ones?
<troy_s> for example, in the logo you have a white translucent 'gloss' right?
<troy_s> that contours to a sweepy curved line
<troy_s> is that a linear grad up to the selection curve?
<troy_s> or is it more contoured?
<Who_> no, it is not even a gradient :P
<troy_s> ah.
<troy_s> you should try to gloss those up with the same white curves
<troy_s> might be a direction worth pursuing...
<Who_> a bit like the text and logo....
<Who_> I have too many directions in my head right now - it's mifnight and I'm sure I ought to eat some dinner :P
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> ok... bang em out
<troy_s> send me the link
<troy_s> i'll contact all of the stuff and post to the list with a nice easily scannable page.
<troy_s> thanks again whosie
<Who_> hehe - my computer doesn't like having this many large images open - things are slooooowwwing down
<troy_s> dual core 4 gigs of ram here :)
<troy_s> 64bit
<Who_> 512mb on an AthlonXP 1900 :P not quite the same...
<Who_> kwwii: are you actively working on the oxygen icons?
<mhb> he seems to have fallen asleep :o)
<mhb> Who_: (I think) he does ... it's written over here (http://www.oxygen-icons.org/?cat=2) and he has some icons in his SVN/ directory
<Who_> for anyone interested - I just added the XCF to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/GDMProposal - troy_s: some fun for you
<kwwii> Who_: yepp, I am one of the three Oxygen artists
<Who_> kwwii: cool - I really love some of the Oxygen icons :)
<Who_> well, what I really mean is that I loved the previews I saw :P
<kwwii> Who_: good to hear :-)
<kwwii> check out the stuff we have in kde svn
<Who_> Will they be available for Gnome and KDE?
<kwwii> we put the whole svg theme there for now
<kwwii> and a script to render them into pngs
<kwwii> the artwork has a long way to go, and we have a lot of icons to make
<kwwii> but you get the point from it
<Who_> cool - I haven't every used KDE SVN - tonight isn't the night as it's already late - but I'll check them out soon
<Who_> *every = ever
<kwwii> websvn.kde.org if nothing else
<kwwii> artwork module, Oxygen dir
<kwwii> erm, even I cannot find it right now
<kwwii> sorry
<kwwii> I am ready for sleep
<mhb> kwwii: the Oxygen icons?
<kwwii> yepp
<mhb> kwwii: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/artwork/Oxygen/
<kwwii> yes, thanks!
<kwwii> and again night
<mhb> the only address in KDE svn I know
<kwwii> I really need sleep
<kwwii> hehe
<mhb> goodnight
<kwwii> good!
<kwwii> see you tomorrow
<Who_> anyone know how I link to an attachment on another page on the wiki?
<Who_> any opinions on the logo I just mailed to the list?
<mhb> Who_: very nice
<Who_> improvements?
<mhb> Who_: Sorry, not from me at this late hour (2:28 here) :o)
<Who_> I'm an hour behinf
<Who_> *behind
<Who_> and I'm off to bed
<Who_> night all
<mhb> Who_: goodnight
<mhb> Who_: and thanks for all the good work
<Who_> :) thanks
<mhb> good morning
<klepas> moin
<mhb> troy_s: seems like you Artists are most active at night :o)
<troy_s> or we are westies
<troy_s> mhb :)
<mhb> troy_s: most people I talked with were not
<mhb> troy_s: at least yesterday :o)
<troy_s> weird.
<troy_s> night owls then
<mhb> troy_s: you planned to put together the Kubuntu proposals from Ken, right?
<troy_s> i will yes.
<troy_s> i have found that it is hard for art folks to contribute when there isn't a guiding ruleset
<mhb> troy_s: I wanted to read more about the artwork phases the other day, but couldn't find it ... could you please direct me?
<troy_s> indeed...
<troy_s> did you start at the root wiki?
<troy_s> i believe it is under documents now
<troy_s> wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation
<troy_s> try that...
<troy_s> or go to artwork and look for the subpage docu*
<mhb> oh, yes
<mhb> maybe it could be mentioned a bit more in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork, where I started
<mhb> or maybe not ... I dunno
<troy_s> probably could.
<troy_s> our wiki-wizards are supposed to be on that.   mention it to klepas
<troy_s> because bersace is on holiday right now.
<troy_s> and klepas is the other half of our super team.
<mhb> troy_s: ok :o)
<troy_s> what is your background mhb?
<mhb> troy_s: what do you mean?
<mhb> troy_s: the wallpaper right now on my desktop? Or something else?
<mhb> hi kwwii
<kwwii> howdy
<troy_s> kwwii
<troy_s> kwwii i need inkscape help
<troy_s> help me
<kwwii> ok
<kwwii> what do you need to know?
<troy_s> ok... take a few spline curves
<troy_s> and you create an intersecting shape of sorts...
<troy_s> is there a way to have that new shape be recognized so that you can apply a fill to it?
<troy_s> with me?
<troy_s> sort of a raster hybrid operation
<kwwii> you want to take, lets say two circles and overlap them, and then be able to make the space they both share a new shape?
<troy_s> that is the idea yes...
<troy_s> the union to be filled with a grad, or solid or what have you
<troy_s> i tried group, but that didn't do much
<kwwii> just copy both of them, and then go into the path menu and create a new object with a union
<troy_s> ok so shift copy both
<kwwii> copy and paste, I mean
<troy_s> then paste as a new object?
<kwwii> you still want the old shapes, I assume?
<kwwii> if so, copy and paste them, and then make the new shape out of the copies (so you don't loose the old ones)
<troy_s> well i don't mind
<troy_s> is there a way to just take say, three splines and union them?
<troy_s> then use fills on the overlapping areas?
<kwwii> if they are not closed, I guess it will not create a new shape
<kwwii> you can take three closed shapes and union them
<troy_s> where is the union shape?
<troy_s> erm
<troy_s> tool
<kwwii> but if you only want to create one gradient on all of them, make sure they have no fill, group them and then apply a gradient to the group
<kwwii> Path-->Union
<kwwii> you could also combine them
<kwwii> Path-->Combine
<troy_s> ok...
<troy_s> so i tried union
<mhb> troy_s: I think you can do that with the splines, too
<troy_s> it no work for filly
<troy_s> i shall try combine...
<troy_s> well it kinda works but it takes the short path, not the union hole
<kwwii> yeah
<troy_s> imagine taking three splines and making a triangle...
<troy_s> then you want to grad the triangle
<kwwii> I wish I understood better what you are trying to do
<troy_s> how the hell do you do that?
<troy_s> so your triangle is bascially the intersection of three curvey splines (with tails that extend past the interior of the triangle -- it isn't a 'clean' set of three points with connectors -- the overlap area is 'triangle like')
<kwwii> I guess that if none of the splines create a closed shape they cannot be combined in a way to have a fill
<klepas> wish the two of a lovely day
<klepas> cheers und tschuess ^^
<troy_s> kwwii no the splines DO create a closed shape
<troy_s> the splines start as curves -- no closed shape
<troy_s> then the overlapped area forms a closed shape
<kwwii> hehe, I just tried it with inkscape
<troy_s> but i can't seem to get the stinker to close and fill
<kwwii> union does not do anything what you think it should
<troy_s> no... it takes the spline as a closed area
<troy_s> meaning if it is an arc, it LINEAR closes the arc
<troy_s> which isn't what i want.
<kwwii> dude, I do not think you can do that with inkscape
<kwwii> I honestly do not know how
<kwwii> I guess it can only work with closed splines
<troy_s> hrm... it seems pretty rudimentary...
<troy_s> in #inkscape
<kwwii> why not just close the splines and then do it?
<troy_s> because i want the tails
<kwwii> the only part you care about is the curves that make up the new object
<troy_s> no, i want the tails
<troy_s> its combine
<troy_s> :)
<troy_s> i think i am onto it...
<troy_s> combine appears to be the proper path...
<troy_s> fecking hell... close but no cigar
<kwwii> :-)
<troy_s> kerk balls
<kwwii> btw. I have put together stuff for a wiki page for kubuntu ideas...it is a lot of different things though
<troy_s> good
<troy_s> http://www.inkscape.org/doc/shapes/shapes-f16.svg.png
<troy_s> see that image
<troy_s> the black and white alternating thing is what i want to accomplish (basically)
<troy_s> but with open ended splines
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> good idea
<troy_s> bugger
<mhb> troy_s: do you really think there is a need for "keeping some emails down" ?
<troy_s> in what respect
<troy_s> yes.
<troy_s> generally
<mhb> troy_s: well it doesn't seem to be a good idea to me
<troy_s> well i find the problem is that a lot of the email spins far off the beaten path
<troy_s> and turns into a forum for people to voice off on their insecurities
<troy_s> rather than steadfast art review (and review isn't easy, it is a craft like any other)
<troy_s> and by some, i guess you worry about censorship
<troy_s> i am a fan of keeping focus.  that, in my experience, has come to mean that at times you need to restrict what directions you take on certain issues.
<troy_s> its the nature of focus -- some things focus, other things defocus.
<mhb> troy_s: so you think some factors (people) on the list shouldn't comment so much?
<troy_s> i think that question is probably rhetorical :)
<troy_s> what is your opinion?
<mhb> troy_s: I understand your point
<mhb> troy_s: well, I personally join the ML and the team so I can watch the wonderful pieces of art and learn more about how they get created
<troy_s> i think everyone should be free to voice
<mhb> troy_s: and of course I want to help with everything I can do
<troy_s> but there needs to exist a list where 'work only' related items appear
<troy_s> that mailing list was the only one in place, so that seems like a logical starting point.  no need to overcomplicate until necessary.  one could argue that if we create a art-offtopic, that people won't use it.
<troy_s> and if you create a work only list,
<troy_s> there will be persistent folks who insist on cluttering it up to be heard.
<mhb> but surely there are people like me who are silent and just watching
<troy_s> i don't have the time for that, and it results in nothing.  all round, it is a complete waste of time and a distraction, which is fine and dandy if you have plenty of time to read through silly bits.
<troy_s> indeed.
<troy_s> there are a lot.
<troy_s> they email me often :)
<troy_s> in private
<troy_s> i will say, that for the large part, people are very very very excited and happy with the direction and structure the art team has established.
<troy_s> and i tend to build on those positives.  or at least try.
<mhb> troy_s: well OK. I just hope I'll still be able to watch "the artwork flow", not just the product
<troy_s> well that's the idea.
<troy_s> many folks produce decent looking artwork.
<troy_s> but it is far more complicated than that when you look at the overarching picture...
<troy_s> everyone needs to create art that fits within the scope -- that means it is more like an animation department.
<troy_s> every character would have a keyframer who is responsible for that character, and has authority, but even still, they must fit into the larger picture.
<troy_s> as must the background artists etc
<troy_s> professional product isn't created in closed little backroom circles where people spit out tidbits.
<troy_s> it is a constant process -- much like sculpting
<troy_s> you take a blob of clay
<troy_s> figure out some good directions to take
<troy_s> and sculpt it.
<troy_s> refine it
<troy_s> borrow
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> depending on time limits, i like to see a few 'boats' put into the water
<troy_s> those boats are 'steered', but everyone is expected to steer in the same direction and not 'bail ship' when the boat isn't going in the direction they want.
<troy_s> the boats will progress so that they are all the same distance along the race, but in different paths.
<troy_s> make sense?
<mhb> yes
<troy_s> open source art has largely been a bunch of small boats
<troy_s> driven in a bunch of different directions
<troy_s> and selected at random by individuals that call the collection a 'boat show'
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> it simply doesn't work.  as you can imagine the output with an animation, sketch, etc... when no one is speaking the same language etc.
<mhb> troy_s: I still think you can "steer" the team on the ML and not just the few "art captians"
<troy_s> mhb, agree.
<mhb> troy_s: I agree - we/you/the artwork need to be organized
<troy_s> mhb i tend to think as i would with a firewall
<troy_s> start clean -- restrict everything -- then permit as required.
<troy_s> but that is hard to do on a list that has no precedence
<troy_s> it also takes a great deal of maturity to say 'ok we are going this way, now how do i make this direction better or provide very reasonable variations'
<troy_s> without feeling like you have been 'snubbed' etc.
<troy_s> i suppose that is the fine line between hobby and professional.
<troy_s> there are many folks who can provide professional looking graphics as we have seen... trying to get them to shape and coordinate together is tricky business.
<troy_s> i think we are making strong progress though.  there are some wonderful variations coming in...
<troy_s> of course, i like to see 'very' varied variations in different flavours, then limit from there (inverse firewall approach)
<mhb> uh huh
<troy_s> and those folks out there who seem to have an innate rebellion towards structure and process should probably do a little history research.
<mhb> (I hope that's not me :o)
<mhb> I can see what (who) you mean, I guess
<troy_s> they are usually folks who have some internal fear of losing power.  the reality is quite simple -- anyone who practices a craft does so in a very methodical manner.
<mhb> (not Who, of course)
<troy_s> take davinci for example
<troy_s> and look to his countless sketches of muscle structure -- none of those were ever really intended to be 'art' unto themselves, but rather examinations of form.
<troy_s> and he didn't suddenly wake up one day and say "i have this terrific idea -- i am going to combine anatomy with insect anatomy!"
<troy_s> follow me?
<mhb> yes
<troy_s> he plodded along in a very formulaic and methodical approach to completion.
<troy_s> as with say, if we look to a company like apple that has good art direction, or a movie that has good art direction
<troy_s> it simply isn't the case where EVERYONE steps up and directs the art.
<troy_s> a small group direct it, and everyone is expected to contribute along certain lines.
<mhb> OK, no objections to that.
<troy_s> good structure doesn't restrict creativity, it simply keeps it within a given sphere.
<mhb> I completely agree
<troy_s> most extraordinary artists i know LOVE limitations -- its strange.
<troy_s> limitations force you to be creative in ways that you are unfamiliar... if all you have is black and white, it forces you to work within the medium etc.
<troy_s> they don't complain about not having a certain colour, they just make black and white work.
<troy_s> and work amazingly.
<mhb> sure, but they are the most skilled ones
<mhb> nevertheless, let's get back
<troy_s> craft.  practice.
<troy_s> yah shoot.
<mhb> I agree that the artwork team needs to be "steered" but still - I would love if every "order, suggestion " from the responsible and skilled people was visible in public on the ML ...
<troy_s> mhb:  most of that is taken into account with the process.  if more people buy into it, you will see a very clear paper trail
<mhb> so that the process would be completely transparent
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> i am 100% for transparency
<troy_s> but that takes people to contribute, and contribute decent levels of quantity -- even if in short spurts.
<troy_s> one mock up doesn't help anyone
<troy_s> but several do...
<mhb> troy_s: even one mock up does, if it inspires someone
<troy_s> if everyone follows the given ruleset the paper trail is a byproduct.
<mhb> troy_s: I think
<troy_s> well true enough... but to really get a feel, people need to open up and present it
<troy_s> if it sits on your computer or some off link hidden away on the mailing list that people need to search for, it is useless.
<troy_s> which is why the centralization is key.
<troy_s> so that we have all the stuff in a given area and it is easy to scan through.
<troy_s> not massive collages of disparate components.
<mhb> well
<troy_s> a hole with water in it.
<mhb> I know :o)
<mhb> let me finish the glass of water from the well and I'll continue :o)
<mhb> maybe a better artwork management system would be handy
<troy_s> yep... when we get enough folks contributing i agree.  right now it is most effecient if someone does it as there aren't hundreds of submissions
<mhb> troy_s: If you start working on something, let me know
<mhb> troy_s: I can help you with all possible programming
<troy_s> well i doubt i will have time for something like that.  right now i just use imagemagick scripts to build contacts.
<mhb> I meant it more like "you = the artwork team"
<troy_s> yeah i think a good cms will be useful in the future... once we hit critical mass...
<troy_s> i have heard good things about drupal http://drupal.org/
<mhb> I like it, too.
<mhb> we use it for the local Ubuntu site
<troy_s> really?
<troy_s> link?
<mhb> http://www.ubuntu.cz/
<mhb> (we are currently working on a new artwork more similar to ubuntu.com)
<troy_s> i know that drupal has some good image handling plugins...
<mhb> I don't know. Anyway, the process should be reversed - first list the things that we need and then search for a CMS
<mhb> we should find the CMS that fits the most (and then we could make some modifications on our own - at least I think I'll be able to)
<mhb> but as you say - it's not a near future
<troy_s> indeed... needs are basically image based though
<troy_s> with comment area for steering
<troy_s> i don't know of a simpler one just looking now
<mhb> if you find some time (I know you are a busy man), post your conditions on the ML, so others would know about it, and I will have it in one place
<troy_s> who uses it is key...
<troy_s> art.ubuntu.com was created without thinking about who would use it.
<troy_s> and hence suffered accordingly.
<troy_s> man ubuntu is great for installing stuffs.
<mhb> troy_s: art.ubuntu.com wasn't generally a bad idea
<mhb> troy_s: maybe it wasn't really well-known for the people who would use it
<troy_s> it was a great idea
<troy_s> but poorly executed.
<troy_s> no one was assigned responsibility
<troy_s> and the admin level died
<troy_s> so it sort of exists as a strange unupdated thing
<mhb> troy_s: AFAIK, there is a new page coming up called spreadubuntu.org
<mhb> troy_s: the marketing team is responsible for that
<mhb> troy_s: maybe it would be possible to somehow integrate the user wallpapers into their site, I dunno
<troy_s> eek
<troy_s> considering that i will initially be doing the updating, autonomy is probably good.
<newz2000> troy_s: ping
<troy_s> heyas newz
<troy_s> newz2000, i guess you got my mail eh?
<troy_s> lol
<newz2000> yeah
<newz2000> I've got the art-team website set up...
<newz2000> but I'm on a tight deadline with bzr.
<newz2000> If I give you ftp access cay you do the drupal thing?
<troy_s> well considering that i can't seem to get it up on my box
<troy_s> ...
<troy_s> i am getting user issues on the default install.  i suppose i could manually add the users, but root doesn't seem to work either (after permitting the mysql root user with password)
<troy_s> don't sweat it... it was just a back of head idea...
<troy_s> finish up with your bzr work
<newz2000> ok. Also, there's a person who is eager to help out with programming website stuff...
<newz2000> Brandon Holtsclaw
<newz2000> He goes by imbrandon here on freenode
<newz2000> oh, he's here
<newz2000> imbrandon_
<newz2000> Je
<newz2000> opos
<newz2000> oops :] 
<troy_s> let me know when bzr lifts a bit...
<troy_s> what is the art team website?
<newz2000> Thursday is the deadline
<newz2000> sorry, I meant auc
<newz2000> art.ubuntu.com is now on the new hosting platform
<troy_s> yep... hit me with mail
<newz2000> ok. Do you have the mysql user/pass?
<troy_s> when you have a moment to try a drupal go
<troy_s> not a chance
<troy_s> i had ssh to the one box, but no mysql permits... kind of useless :)
<troy_s> but i am actually pretty busy
<troy_s> enough
<newz2000> Do you want the ftp/db info so you can try it?
<newz2000> oh, ok.
<troy_s> with sorting out the default stuffs.
<newz2000> Do you want me to send Brandon the details and see if he can improve things? I don't even know what needs done
<troy_s> does he have permissions to get those sorts of things done?
<newz2000> I can give him permission
<newz2000> sabdfl asked me to work with him
<troy_s> well i don't want a massive security hole on a whimsical attempt
<troy_s> if you know what i mean
<newz2000> Yeah
<troy_s> if he has been papally blessed, then sure.
<newz2000> The new hosting platform should prevent him from having access outside of ftp and upload.
<troy_s> what is the new platform running?
<newz2000> I'll give him the non-root db password and ftp access.
<newz2000> ISPConfig on hoary
<troy_s> great...
<troy_s> hoary?
<troy_s> sheesh
<troy_s> he can hit me with email if need be.
<troy_s> no problem there.
<newz2000> yeah, those servers have a funny architecture and the kernel with dapper causes it to non boot.
<newz2000> WHich is a pain when they're in a different state and it takes 48 hours to get a reboot.
<newz2000> What needs done to auc to make it more useful?
<troy_s> um... plenty -- but i have washed my hands of that site.
<troy_s> i find it to be redundant, although apparently there are some folks at canonical who disagree.
<troy_s> gnome-look seems to work well enough
<newz2000> what were you wanting drupal for?
<troy_s> for non direct related artwork.  the whole drupal idea is based largely around my needs to organize all of the submissions properly.
<troy_s> purely for artwork team development resources
<troy_s> make sense?
<newz2000> I see
<newz2000> And the whole attaching images is tedious with the wiki?
<troy_s> well it sort of works, but it would be nicer if i could just upload images to the proper area and they get automatically thumbnailed etc
<newz2000> yeah
<troy_s> and have an area for comments on a per item basis
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> all of which drupal has a plugin for
<troy_s> etc.
<newz2000> What about an installation of the gallery? It has voting, comments.
<troy_s> i don't mind using the wiki, i was just wanting to test it out as a proof of principle
<troy_s> does it?
<newz2000> sure
<troy_s> hrm...
<troy_s> might work.
<troy_s> can you area-ize the stuff?
<troy_s> i know drupal has keyword workflow
<newz2000> what do you mean by area-ize?
<troy_s> which is very handy... i could attach Proposal for example to a set of images.
<troy_s> and they get sorted by workflow keyword.
<troy_s> very useful.
<newz2000> hmm... well, if you know drupal will work, I'm sure we can get it set up.
<troy_s> well i will try to fart with it on my local box
<newz2000> I could easily put it as a sub-folder under auc.
<troy_s> and see if it meets the needs.
<troy_s> don't really mind... i just don't want anything to do with auc :)
<newz2000> The reason that's easy is I don't need to mess with dns.
<newz2000> I haven't really figured out that process yet.
<newz2000> And because of the timzeon diff it's so far taking a bit of time.
<newz2000> let me see if elmo's on, if so I'll see if I can get something through... just a sec
<newz2000> he's idle... how about "art-staging.ubunt.com"
<newz2000> or do yu have a suggestion?
<troy_s> that's fine too
<troy_s> whatever is easy
<troy_s> don't really care too much about those minutiae right now
<newz2000> ok, I'll get a new site created sometime by mid-day thursday (our time). Maybe I'll get the whole DNS thing figured out in the process.
<newz2000> I just read the e-mail from sabdfl where he mentiones a tool to make the flow of the art-layout nicer.
<troy_s> hey newz2000
<troy_s> i have apache going
<troy_s> and drupal is working
<troy_s> and the database is going
<troy_s> but i have issues with the damn browser trying to download .phtml files instead of displaying them
<newz2000> that wasn't long. You must have had an "a ha!"
<newz2000> oh
<troy_s> and i added them to the addtype
<troy_s> restarted apache2 and still tries to download the bugger
<troy_s> some ubuntu related finickyness
<newz2000> I know how to fix it... I just have to remember
<troy_s> never had this problem on openbs.d
<troy_s> AddType application/x-httpd-php .phtml
<troy_s> but it still tries downloading with firefox and epiphany
<newz2000> grep /etc/mime.types
<newz2000> oops
<newz2000> grep phtml /etc/mime.types
<troy_s> might be another apache conf somewhere?
<newz2000> do you get a result?
<troy_s> application/x-httpd-php                         phtml pht php
<newz2000> ok, that's good.
<newz2000> just a sec
<newz2000> are you using virtual hosting?
<newz2000> or just the default website on your pc?
<troy_s> i am merely trying to get it working on my workstation
<troy_s> so it is all localhost
<newz2000> ok, ls /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
<newz2000> are there two php related files there?
<newz2000> php4.load and php4.conf
<troy_s> hrm... let me look
<troy_s> cgi.load  userdir.conf  userdir.load
<troy_s> those three... no php related
<newz2000> ok, that's easy to fix... this will take care of it.
<troy_s> dpkg-reconfigure php4?
<newz2000> I've never done it that way... it might work. Here's somethign taht will help for sure though.
<newz2000> a2enmod
<newz2000> wait
<newz2000> a2enmod php4
<newz2000> that will enable php
<newz2000> then /etc/init.d/apache2 force-reload
<troy_s> okie...
<troy_s> sudo i presume?
<newz2000> yes
<troy_s> php4 is enabled
<troy_s> all is well
<troy_s> but still tries to download
<troy_s> the damn phtml file
<newz2000> :-D
<troy_s> no work
<troy_s> grr...
<newz2000> echo "<?php phpinfo(); ?>" > /var/www/phpinfo.php
<newz2000> then http://localhost/phpinfo.php
<newz2000> does it work?
<troy_s> testing
<troy_s> yep php is working fine
<newz2000> ok, so its just the phtml thing.
<newz2000> Did drupal put .htaccess files in your /var/www?
<troy_s> yep... again its that blasted conf issue... letme try something.
<newz2000> You may need to enable htaccess support.
<newz2000> any mac users here?
<troy_s> still bloody trying to download it...
<newz2000> ls -a /var/www
<newz2000> is there a .htaccess file?
<troy_s> grr... i wonder if it is because it is a phtml file that drupal is shipping without an extension
<troy_s> i imagine the browser is supposed to know about phtml by looking at the first few lines?
<troy_s> no htaccess
<newz2000> no,
<troy_s> ahh there is one in the drupal dir
<troy_s> yes...
<newz2000> the server has to know that it's a php and parse it on the server
<newz2000> OK, you may need to enable htaccess in your apache file.
<troy_s> ?
<newz2000> just a sec, I'll tell you how
<newz2000> sudo vi /etc/apache2/apache2.conf (or whatever editor you like)
<troy_s> ja
<troy_s> done
<newz2000> find AllowOverride
<troy_s> got an icons one
<newz2000> find one near the end
<newz2000> no the icons one, not the <Directory /> one either
<newz2000> I don't have any pure files, so I'm going from memory
<newz2000> all of mine have been edited
<troy_s> icons error and publichtml
<troy_s> i have an htaccess line
<newz2000> ok, is there an AllowOverride near there?
<troy_s> no... accessfilename is sitting on its own line
<troy_s> AccessFileName .htaccess
<newz2000> here's what you want, just add it at the end:
<newz2000> <Directory '/var/www'>
<newz2000>     AllowOverride AuthConfig Options FileInfo
<newz2000> </Directory>
<newz2000> the restart of force-reload apache again
<troy_s> same garbage :)
<troy_s> damn downloading
<newz2000> :-(
<troy_s> ok i must shower... thanks for your help thus far newz.
<troy_s> i'll bang away when i get back
<newz2000> I sent a request for the domain
<troy_s> pretty sure it is the damn
<troy_s> apache2.conf
<newz2000> We can put up a new website. It will work there.
<troy_s> addtype not workign with unassigned file extensions
<newz2000> I never use phtml.
<troy_s> addtype needs an extension, it isn't looking in the file itself for guidance
<troy_s> which is probably the problemo
<troy_s> the file is just blah
<troy_s> instead of blah.phtml
<newz2000> oh, that's easy to fix
<newz2000> I misunderstood
<troy_s> and somewhere i need to tell apache that the blah file is a phtml
<troy_s> or tell apache to look inside the file.
<newz2000> doesn't the .htaccess do that?
<troy_s> probably
<troy_s> where do i specify it?
<newz2000> Here's what we use on auc:
<newz2000>      <FilesMatch '(backgrounds|themes|gtk_engines|art-icons|download|users|contest)'>
<newz2000>          ForceType application/x-httpd-php
<newz2000>      </FilesMatch>
<troy_s> eek where do i put that?
<troy_s> apache2.conf?
<newz2000> I put it in .htaccess in the root folder of the site.
<newz2000> You could put it in a Location directive too I guess.
<newz2000> <Location />....</Location>
<troy_s> ok so filesmatch is a directory listing?
<troy_s> what would i do to tell it to use php for all of the file output
<newz2000> It means if someone requests the file /backgrounds run it through php first.
<troy_s> so that's a directory then?
<newz2000> no, its actually a file named just backgrounds
<newz2000> no .php on it.
<troy_s> so i would need to * if it is a generated name correct?
<troy_s> like waze89921x
<newz2000> I don't think so
<newz2000> You have a file named waze89921x and you want it to be parsed as php?
<troy_s> yep but the waze* is dynamically generated
<troy_s> for some reason the crap coming out of the drupal directory is blah (which needs to be parsed as php)
<newz2000> Sounds fishy.
<troy_s> well it is work
<troy_s> working... just hte files that are coming out aren't getting parsed by php
<troy_s> they are being shipped to the browser raw methinks
<newz2000> check the install files. I'm sure they have some magic line you can add to apache.conf of .htaccess that makes it work.
<troy_s> grr
* kwwii makes a new wiki page
<troy_s> well bugger it... i will just install from the sources
<troy_s> instead of apt-get
<troy_s> see if that fixes the issues.
<troy_s> greetz kwwii
<troy_s> kwwii, you are turning into a bit of a wiki wizard...
<troy_s> ;)
<kwwii> it is a wiki-wacky world :p
<troy_s> you learn any of the handy macros yet?
<troy_s> like @DATE@
<troy_s> etc?
<kwwii> nope, I refuse too
<kwwii> actually I know @SIG@
<troy_s> what does @SIG@ do?
<kwwii> adds your name and the date
<troy_s> ahh... well there you go
<troy_s> same diff.
<troy_s> you prepping those for me?
<kwwii> I guess I will go ahead and make the page in incoming and then we can work out any future stuff
<kwwii> troy_s: here is a link to the stuff I want to put in the wiki page so far: http://bootsplash.org/forWIKI.tar.bz2
<troy_s> that all of it?
<kwwii> hehe
<troy_s> cuz i need to sort based on the content
<kwwii> yeah, that is what I thought too
<kwwii> so I will simply start by making my own wiki page in incomin
<kwwii> incoming
<troy_s> okie... that's great if that is all of it in one tarball.
<troy_s> if that's it... that's all i need.
<troy_s> i can wiki all the stuff up... i was just waiting for more stuff to come down the pipe
<kwwii> I might find a few more, but until now, that is all
<kwwii> that tarball has a few wallpaper ideas, a few button ideas, a few kdm ideas and some other things explain colors, gloss, etc.
<kwwii> the ksrc file, for instance is a color file for kde
<mhb> kwwii: what's the proper tool to open it?
<troy_s> okie
<kwwii> and the windowdecotest*.png files are gradients to use as a bg for the current window deco (along with the color file)
<kwwii> mhb: kde :-)
<kwwii> in system settings, you can change the colors used by kde
<kwwii> under appearance
<mhb> oh
<mhb> thanks
<kwwii> so, system-settings --> appearance --> colors
<kwwii> it would be best if I wrote some stuff to go along with some of these pics
<kwwii> the stuff with the world on it, for instance, or the lighter blue version of the kde-app start page
<troy_s> indeed... i am mostly interested in the direct art based things like the mocks for logon etc.
<kwwii> need explaining
<kwwii> then take those and the wallpapers
<kwwii> and I can put the rest on a new wiki page in incoming
<troy_s> indeed
<kwwii> edgy3a.png is a bg for a kdm without a window (ie, the text entry box and titles are directly on the page)
<mhb> kwwii: is there a way how to view the windowdecorations directly on the windows?
<kwwii> yepp, again, go into the system settings-->Appearance-->Window Decorations-->Overlay and enter the file name in the text entry widget or browse for the file
<mhb> kwwii: thank you very much ...
<kwwii> you can set the gradient for both the active and the inactive window decos
<kwwii> no prob :-)
<mhb> I'll be offline for a moment
<mhb> I'm back ... was starting the KDE desktop
<kwwii> hehe, like it took 20 minutes :-)
<mhb> OK, I won't lie - called my girlfriend, too :o)
<mhb> kwwii: the window-decorator pngs are not bad
<mhb> but there's one thing on the window-decorator style that I really dislike
<mhb> it's the default Kubuntu buttons
<mhb> when I compare the Kubuntu and the Ubuntu default win-deco buttons
<mhb> the Ubuntu ones look very simple and professional, no-nonsense
<kwwii> mhb: yeah, I made them, and I know we need to change them
<kwwii> wait till I am done with my wiki page
<kwwii> I have suggestions for that too
<newz2000> woo hoo. My theme works. Finally. (only barely though)
<mhb> kwwii: my opinion is that they should move more into the "professional" level
<kwwii> yepp
<mhb> kwwii: just like Oxygen grows up from Crystal playfulness
<mhb> more modest, I guess
<kwwii> yepp
<mhb> kwwii: OK, I'll wait for your proposals, after all - you're The Artist here :o))
<kwwii> I am about done
<kwwii> (have to upload all the files now)
<kwwii> ok, done
<kwwii> I assume the troy will put the kdm and wallpaper ideas in the right place
<kwwii> for now, I have made one fscked up wiki page
<kwwii> wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas
<mhb> kwwii: thanks a lot
<kwwii> no problem
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> I am still fixing one pic
<kwwii> done
<kwwii> troy_s: did you add the wallpaper and login stuff yet?
<kwwii> I think I will add it to that page as well, and you can use the same images
<troy_s> kwwii i wont be doing anything till later tonite.
<kwwii> ok, cool
<kwwii> I am uploading some stuff now
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-19
<kwwii> done
<kwwii> now is time for bed
<kwwii> funeral tomorrow
<kwwii> no fun
<mhb> kwwii: goodnight
<mhb> kwwii: se you after tomorrow
<mhb> see
<mhb> and thanks for all the wiki work
<kwwii> see you soon
<viper550> Hello
<imbrandon> aftrernoon viper550
<viper550> It's evening, but you must be in a different time zone! :)
<imbrandon> newz2000, ping
<viper550> Wanna see my great working mockup of Kubuntu Edgy's new theme?
<viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas
<imbrandon> just seen it ( ML )
<imbrandon> ;)
<viper550> like it?
<imbrandon> yea little dark but i like, i personaly amd looking for more like who's blue bubbles color shifted to purpleish and kwwii logo just above the black splash
<viper550> But I hated the Purple Kubuntu look, remember Flight 5?
<viper550> Wait, what build had the Purple theme originally?
<imbrandon> kde4 and edgy are moving twords purple, and yes i rember it
<viper550> That looked ugly with the elements they used
<imbrandon> yea its all in the way its done
<imbrandon> and the shades
<viper550> Yeah, make it look correct, and make sure it looks good with the artwork you have, and it will be excellent!
<viper550> I am working on a redux of my mockup that is a bit more purpler
<Viper550> I did do some changes just right now to my design that I think will fare alot better
<klepas_Zzz> moinmoin
<Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas
<Viper550> It's gone over well on the Kubuntu IRC
<klepas> nice kde desktop
<Viper550> Thanks
* klepas prefers his tho, nevertheless
<Viper550> But this is my proposition for the Default on 6.10, I don't want a repeat of what Dapper could had been like...
<klepas> i don't like the KDM themes though
<klepas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=kubuntu_deeppurple.png - and many kde lovers will find this too much resembling gnome
<Viper550> Gnome has 2 panels
<Viper550> The layout is supposed to be a parody of my current Gnome desktop layout, a SUSE Enterprise Desktop 10-esque layout
<klepas> sorry, guess i should be more specifici
<klepas> i mean the scroll bars and window decsc
<Viper550> It does look alot like Ubuntulooks, but this came out BEFORE Ubuntulooks existed!
<Viper550> "Polyester for GTK" is actually what I thought when I first saw Ubuntulooks
<troy_s> who lives?
<Madpilot> aside from you?
<troy_s> greetings mad
<troy_s> how you doing?
<Madpilot> good
<Viper550> I've got a pretty neat idea for Kubuntu
<troy_s> I have a great idea for Tropic!
<Who_> hi all
<troy_s> who_
<troy_s> grr.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-20
<Viper550> Hello everyone!
<Pyro_MX> Any people working on Kubuntu?
<Pyro_MX> Is there a place I can go if I have a little design idea?
<mhb> good afternoon
<kwwii> hi mhb
<Viper550> Is it possible to get IP banned from gnome-look?
<serenity> hi
<serenity> http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/4382/kuxbuntudm5.png just a proposal with lack of time
<serenity> re
<serenity> someone alive?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-21
<Who_> troy_s: have you put the svgs for your lsplash's somewhere?
<kwwii> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=kdm-21.07.06.png
<kwwii> ideas?
<kwwii> I think the logo is still kinda fscked up (too dark) but in general the idea is good
<kwwii> Who_: the bg is based on your stuff
<kwwii> I mention that on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/_Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas
<Who_> cool. I'll look now
<Who_> while I wait for it to load....kwwii: did you get the xcf for the blue bubbles?
<Who_> it's cool,
<kwwii> yes, I did, but I work with inkscape so I did not use them to be honest
<kwwii> it still needs a lot of work
<Who_> only suggestion would be to change (that means 'I don't know quite what isn't right but something doesn't quite scan'..) the inner most glass section
<kwwii> but it shows, basically, what is possible
<Who_> indeed :)
<kwwii> yeah, i used two simple round gradients
<kwwii> it needs to be improved
<Who_> but the design is cool.
<kwwii> I will upload the svg tomorrow
<Who_> I was just going to ask :P
<kwwii> it looks better in a browser on my osx then on linux
<kwwii> It needs a lot of work
<kwwii> I told you that I liked your work :-)
<kwwii> now you know that I do
<kwwii> anyway...time for sleep
<kwwii> see you tomorrow
<troy_s> who_ i sent you mail with the link
<Who_> troy_s: Thanks
<troy_s> did you get them?
<Who_> just looking, gimmie 2 mins
<Who_> yea, sorry - on your wikipage, right?
<Who_> troy_s: Did you get the mail I just sent?
<troy_s> uh... not yet... let me look
<troy_s> mail lag
<troy_s> got your mail who_, thanks for taking the time.
<Who_> no problem :)
<Who_> is pdf ok?
<troy_s> shower time for me...
<Who_> bed for me!
<Who_> it took me longer to write that than I had expected...
<troy_s> who_ you still in?
<troy_s> Who_, Who_ Who_
<Who_> troy_s: kinda
<troy_s> did you get that pm?
<Who_> yea, you get my reply?
<troy_s> nope
<troy_s> you got a registered nick???
<troy_s> Who_, i don't know if your nick is registered with nickserv
<Who_> no, it isn't :S
<Who_> you got gmail or msn?
<troy_s> who_ yeah and jabber.
<troy_s> who_ registering is one line of text :)
<troy_s> something like /msg nickserv blah
<troy_s> but you should probably get me on your instant messenger anyways... jabber of google talk works for me.
<troy_s> s/of/or
<Who_> only I would have to choose a new nick - someone has Who and Who_ is owned by them too :S
<troy_s> you add me yet on your im>?
<Who_> well, I am signed into gmail hoping to use Gchat from there, but it doesn't just work (tm)
<Who_> I should explain: I am in a it of a hurry as my housemate needs to go to bed but I need to re-install grub for her before she does as she is taking her PC away tomorrow morning
<troy_s> okie... well get in touch via email... work out the im thing later.
* imbrandon yawns
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<newz2000> troy_s: ping
<mhb> hey everyone
<newz2000> hi
<mhb> seems like "sincerity day" today on the ML
<Viper550> Excuse me, does anyone have SVG's of Human's "close" icon?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-22
<troy_s> newz2000, pong
<troy_s> wtf... no topic?
<kwwii> moin
<imbrandon> moins kwwii
<kwwii> howdy imbrandon
<Guitarhero> Hey I just joined on the Launchpad page
<kwwii> Guitarhero: cool
<Guitarhero> I was just wondering if there was any way I could help out
<Guitarhero> I dont know where all the objectives are in their development
<imbrandon> Guitarhero: you follow the mailing list at all ?
<Guitarhero> no i just signed on the launch pad page, im gonna sign up for the mailing list now, should I just wait for that?
<Guitarhero> alright im on the mailing list
<kwwii> Guitarhero: check the wiki page as well
<kwwii> between the wiki, the mailing list and this channel you will find pretty much all the info you need
<Guitarhero> yeah I was lookin at the wiki
<imbrandon> yup, a good place to start would be to look at the recient ML archives
<imbrandon> it has alot of info
<imbrandon> err ok
<kwwii> hehe, he ran away
<imbrandon> lol , most do, just not that fast
<imbrandon> haha
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> the archive scared him
<kwwii> or perhaps the wiki
<troy_s> naw... we got him on the mailing list now!
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> he's hooked.
<troy_s> all of the loud folks have deactivated their launchpad memberships, membership is thriving, and we have a good energy going forwards.
<troy_s> it's all good.
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> troy_s: is that the correct wiki page you pointed to in your mail?
<troy_s> for what?
<troy_s> launchpad?
<troy_s> should be.
<troy_s> i hope it is :)
<kwwii> 75 Launchpad Members!
<kwwii> Right now, we are currently sitting in the Proposal phase,
<kwwii> so we welcome all work that is along the style given on the
<kwwii> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=42585
<kwwii> wiki page.
<troy_s> grr
<troy_s> nope
<troy_s> wrong
<troy_s> FECK
<kwwii> I thought I should say something before you wake up in the morning with a lot of stupid questions
<troy_s> feck
<troy_s> thanks
<troy_s> weird paste action happened there.
<troy_s> oh well.
<troy_s> errata mail sent out.
<kwwii> no prob :-)
<kwwii> I think I will make myself breakfast now...bbl
<mhb> hello everyone
<troy_s> Who_, how you doing?
<troy_s> mhb, good to have you back
<troy_s> bloody split lost the topic again
<troy_s> grr.
<Who_> troy_s: well, just about to 'cast the net' a bit wider to gett Blubuntu contributers - making a forum post and blogging it
<troy_s> ahh...
<Who_> http://whosdabbling.blogspot.com/2006/07/ubuntu-some-like-it-blue-your-help.html
<troy_s> i really think you need a guiding motif to elevate the blubuntu to something greater.
<Who_> any comments?
<troy_s> i really like your systematic approach
<troy_s> i think it will be a very good process for future development
<Who_> cool, that Blubuntu theme page could actually be quite good for any other theme teams that want to use it, too
<troy_s> whoa...
<troy_s> shuttleworth blogged about it.
<Who_> I was wondering if you can paste the line you use in imagemagik to make the contact sheets - i want to make a script
<troy_s> very simple...
<troy_s> let me do a bit of explaining first.
<Who_> troy_s: yea not my theme, the art team :) you got a nice mention too
<troy_s> the command is montage
<troy_s> -tile has TWO purposes
<troy_s> the one we want is just a value
<troy_s> for width by height
<Who_> okie
<Who_> thanks
<troy_s> hold
<troy_s> not finished
<troy_s> had to look somethign up
<Who_> do you think it is fair to say that the theme team process 'has the blessing' of sabdfl?
<troy_s> i know it does...
<troy_s> hold on.
<Who_> oh, okay, still listening :)
<Who_> so I can say that in my forum post...
<Who_> is this a fiar description (I am worried about misadvertising): You can join a project by the Ubuntu-Art team (with Mark Shuttleworth's blessing) to develop a slick, clean, consistent blue theme to be included in Edgy. We want your contributions NOW. The theme will only be included if it is perfect, distinctive + there is space on the CD - see article for how we can make it so good they will _make space_ for it
<troy_s> ok
<troy_s> so ... back to helping you
<troy_s> sorry... had to do something
<troy_s> -tile will give you geometry -- for example, to do four colums you would put -tile 4
<troy_s> (which is what i use)
<troy_s> you there Who_
<troy_s> another useful command is -label
<troy_s> which you can format
<troy_s> i just use the file names
<troy_s> -label %f
<troy_s> will label each image with the filename
<troy_s> -geometry is the underlying geometry of each image...
<troy_s> so
<troy_s> if you do -geometry 260
<troy_s> each contact sheet thumbnail will have its width scaled to 260
<troy_s> you can force height, but if your images are off, they will scale improperly
<troy_s> -frame will create an outline... looks like a slide and you can control all sorts of things like colour, font, etc.
<troy_s> -frame 1 puts a nice simple 1 pixel border sep
<troy_s> soooooooooooooooo
<Who_> troy_s: sorry, had to do something too :P
<Who_> I'm just catching up
<troy_s> montage -tile 4 -geometry 260 -frame 1 -label %f -monitor my*images.jpg contact_sheet.jpg
<troy_s> the -monitor gives you progress indicators
<troy_s> the 'theme teams' are approved by mark shuttleworth
<troy_s> i would try to avoid implying that 'only blubuntu' is blessed :)
<troy_s> just a semantic wording issue
<Who_> yea, true.
<troy_s> imagemagick is deadly powerful
<troy_s> just so you know... the online docs are very good too
<troy_s> www.imagemagick.org
<Who_> thanks
<troy_s> now you know
<Who_> I used it for some stuff the other night and was impressed
<troy_s> you can help me contact sheet all the stuffs :)
<troy_s> so what would you think is a guiding principle for blubuntu?  any motifs/
<troy_s> ?
<Who_>  troy_s; not yet - that is what I was working on last night
<Who_> tory_s: I didn't get much that I liked :P
<troy_s> great
<troy_s> yes it isn't easy
<troy_s> motifs are tricky
<troy_s> you can really learn a lot by studying art / movies for good motifs and how they work wonderfully
<troy_s> some elevate the motifs to metaphorical instances...
<Who_> I was trying (and this is waht I liked best) the idea of a small 'puddle' (I.E Large droplet) of water on a smooth surface, but didn't have much success rendering it in Inkscape
<troy_s> yes... i am a fan of that style of ripple
<troy_s> blobby gentle ripples
<Who_> but I think the idea could look soo nice if it was consistendly done
<troy_s> yes.
<Who_> can you do them in Inkscape?
<troy_s> i think you need to try to wrap that idea
<troy_s> inkscape rocks.
<Who_> wrap?
<troy_s> i think you need to wrap the visual cues
<troy_s> with some sort of semantic clue
<troy_s> the reason being, is that when you get 'stuck' you have an ideology to fall back on
<troy_s> with me?
<Who_> yea, I am since the last statement...
<troy_s> it gives you one set of 'screening devices' to figure out relevant content
<Who_> (I.E that makde things clear)
<troy_s> yes, you can quickly go 'that is great work, but it doesn't really 'fit' with 'peace / freedom / flow/ foobar'
<troy_s> it helps you sculpt the work
<troy_s> and makes the process faster when you need inspiration for a given icon / etc.
<Who_> well, any ideas what I can wrap my spilled water in :P?
<troy_s> the puddle idea is sort of a layer of abstraction on top of that.
<troy_s> it isn't easy... once you find it though, you will pretty much know it...
<troy_s> i would suggest doing a few things:
<troy_s> A) get a good cheap photo reference book (phaidon's has several)
<troy_s> B) get a good cheap art reference book (phaidon's has several - as does taschen)
<troy_s> flip through them
<troy_s> and see what some artists have done, and perhaps build on what they were trying to embody
<troy_s> there are a few good collections of print media too... they are great for going with a given 'style' regarding historical genres
<troy_s> because if you hit the ground running and start producing, one generally errors on the following:
<troy_s> A) if the creative output is good, it will 'wander' and decrease cohesion
<troy_s> B) you will hit a wall going 'i can't puddle a logout icon!'
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> and more deeply than that, you can quickly get others up to speed by having them read your preamble.
<troy_s> aka paper trail :)
<Who_> wow!
<Who_> that's a lot of info :)
<troy_s> consider it a treatment before you go out and write a novel or a script.
<troy_s> or even a little more low level than that... a sort of fundamental framework.
<troy_s> a lot of people have _very_ complex creative 'sensors' -- like when you look at a picture or watch a movie
<troy_s> when they say 'i don't like it' it is a basic statement that they have hit some of those triggers that something is violating their complex and refined sensors.
<Who_> so have you got any ideas for Blubuntu?
<troy_s> yes i have a few
<troy_s> i'll email you them...
<Who_> cool :)
<troy_s> i need to do some serious work on it first though, like flog through some of my art reference works...
<troy_s> try to get something fresh...
<troy_s> right now, i have a glut of updates to hit on the wiki
<troy_s> and try to clean them up
<Who_> yea, actually, it's about time I did some more work for Human!
<troy_s> probably establish four good wiki pages with a summary link for the contact sheets etc.
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> don't worry too much about hitting edgy
<troy_s> personally, to make a really pro theme, i would say that a team would need at least two cycles to get a mockup going
<troy_s> that 'works'
<Who_> (do you have a suspicion that the space won't allow it anyway?)
<troy_s> otherwise it is a kludge.
<troy_s> yes.
<troy_s> until frank and daniel get how to remove ALL the legacy gnome crap
<troy_s> and extra gnome theme crap this
<troy_s> out
<troy_s> (which is a technological migration issue -- how to resolve a users system if they are using some of that information etc)
<troy_s> i think space will be at a premium
<Who_> I do really want to get something out ofr review for edgy, and I want it to to be good - as much as anything to prove that I can get something produced in this framework and that I can meet the deadlines
<Who_> which is admittedly, not going to yield the most kickass theme we could possible have made it, but we have future release cycles to hone them
<Who_> If this was for Dapper (I.E an LTS release) I may not take that view, but for Edgy, I think shipping a bloody good theme that can still be improved on is okay
<andreasn> what legacy gnome crap?
<Who_> I 'legacy gnome crap' refers to the stuff in gnome-themes...
<andreasn> the themes in gnome-themes?
<andreasn> crap is a bit harsh eh, we're doing as good work as we can refreshing those
<Who_> not my words :P
<mhb> andreasn: it's "sincerity weekend" now in Ubuntu Artwork Team :o)
<mhb> andreasn: (it's just a joke)
<andreasn> :)
<mhb> andreasn: if you read the ML from yesterday you would understand it better :o)
<andreasn> so much noise on the ml that I can't keep up with everything :(
<mhb> andreasn: some other theme was critisized very badly
<andreasn> what was the subject?
<Who_> Domething about Tropic
<Who_> Tropic beta 1 released, I think
<Who_> I think it was criticised very 'well' - I.E sensitively and constructively
<mhb> andreasn: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Tropic
<mhb> Who_: well
<Who_> mhb:?
<mhb> Who_: well, you could say that
<Who_> :P
<Who_> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Help_to_ensure_Ubuntu_Edgy_has_a_slick_blue_theme_installed_automatically
<Who_> you could digg that if you want to avoid the need to criticise me well/badly over Blubuntu :P
<mhb> Who_: I called yesterday "sincerity day" here on the chat but it seems it continues :o)
<mhb> Who_: some people reacted "not as constructively" on the ML yesterday like you did
<troy_s> on tt-tropic?
<Who_> perhaps I haven't read them all yet - hold on
<mhb> troy_s: yep
<troy_s> big email folks, please take the time to read and get some views to the thread, the info is important.
<troy_s> i have tt-tropic filtered...
<troy_s> no time.
<troy_s> hopefully it wasn't too bad.
<Who_> will do. How 'bout digging the Blubuntu article in return ;)
<mhb> troy_s: well, I was suprised that the negative reactions came so late
<troy_s> missed that.
<troy_s> who_ yep... i always gravitate to structure.
<troy_s> more structure, the more i participate.
<troy_s> but we might want some folks with talent too :)
<troy_s> as opposed to hacks like me.
<troy_s> the folks who participate in irc are probably the 'height' of actives... we need those lurkers.
<Who_> troy_s: can you try not to break the links (to the Blubuntu page) I just spread as far and wide as I possibly could :S
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> i always try to avoid breaking links.
<troy_s> i will probably just try to keep a separate area out of 'incoming'
<mhb> Who_: done. Happier? :o)
<Who_>  sure am :)
<mhb> Who_: 2 still isn't much :o)
<Who_> lol, yea, I don't think it is likely to take off, but it was worth a try :)
<mhb> Who_: but maybe if all these people voted for this...
<mhb> Who_: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Down_with_Brown_-_Changing_Login_Splash_Screen_on_Ubuntu_Dapper_Drake
<Who_> mhb: it was seeing that on the front page that made me think that maybe I could get some diggs
<mhb> Who_: it's interesting that so many people think the Ubuntu theme is not that good
<mhb> the brown colour, to be exact
<Who_> mhb: I think it really does grow on you
<Who_> I see a lot of things these days and think - wow! I wouldn't want to _use_ that
<Who_> not so much with brown though
<Who_> troy_s: I did you a reply
<mhb> see you later, boys
<troy_s> Who_, the brown thing is merely implementation.  and it is new -- and as a 'general' rule, people don't know how to feel with new so they tend to 'react' to it.
<Who_> inee
<Who_> *indeed
<Who_> troy_s: I'm trying to use montage here but it is screwing my images over
<Who_> just using
<Who_>  montage -tile 1 *Theme.png Themes.png
<Who_> all I want ois for the images to get stacked on top of each other!
<troy_s> Who_, you still here?
<troy_s> whooooosy
<troy_s> what do you mean by stacked?
<Who_> troy_s: yea
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> you want a collage approach?
<Who_> It isn't the montage command
<troy_s> or in a single line?
<Who_> it is the crop one that I used before hand, it seems
<troy_s> what is the issue?
<troy_s> ahh...
<troy_s> yep... montage is pretty darn reliable.
<troy_s> i encourage you to read the doc page for some of the specific params.
<Who_> troy_s: yea, that's what I've been doing
<Who_> I want to crop the top  right hand corner
<Who_> I used convert Screenshot*.png -crop 280x54+1000+0 small.png
<Who_> but that creates an image 280x54 pixels with the cropped bit offset, which isn't what I wanted - I wanted the cropping to start offset (which it does) but in the final image I wanted an offset of 0
<Who_> which is why they make repage :D
<Who_> (add +repage to the options)
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> like i said, it is a pretty damn powerful suite.
<troy_s> Who_, you get it sorted?
<Who_> troy_s: yea, repage did it
<troy_s> great
<troy_s> !
<troy_s> must shower and go buy movie tickets for my daughter.
<troy_s> keep me up to speed!
<troy_s> i want to see a mail with everything you have done okie?
<troy_s> danke.
<Who_> troy_s: but not before i'd choppe 5 screenshots into tiles of 270x54
<Who_> which took a while :P
<Who_> oops
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> yah... i did that cropping and was completely in the dark
<troy_s> it is pretty easy because once you learn it, it behaves the same in ALL of the tools.
<troy_s> which is nice
<Who_> I used repage but didn't add an offset...bad idea
<troy_s> the only tricky one is the -tile doesn't tell you about tiling images :)
<troy_s> it does on the expansive doc, but not the initial one for montage
<Who_> troy_s: everything I have done today, or a while back
<troy_s> Who_, how about a summary of what you are working towards?
<troy_s> with links?
<troy_s> or something akin to that?
<troy_s> so that i haven't missed anything
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> plus all your new lovely legwork you are putting in of course.
<Who_> troy_s: Okay, I will email you details for Bluman and Human, ok?
<troy_s> sure.
<troy_s> as i mailed, i am going to update so make sure it is in incoming somewhere
<Who_> yea, it all is :)
<troy_s> klepas has been busy with other matters and bersace is still on vacation
<troy_s> incoming is very clogged.
<troy_s> eek
<Who_> troy_s: I can't find anyway (and I have read a lot of docs!) to use the input filename in the output - is it so obvious it doesn't say?
<troy_s> what do you mean?>
<troy_s> as in take a given image filename.png and change it to filename.png
<troy_s> for batch?
<troy_s> Who_?
<Who_> well, in a single command using * with the input
<troy_s> ahhh... try the label command somewhere.
<Who_> using * in the output doesn't allow me to add
<Who_> thanks
<troy_s> and there are the blah: formats that seem to deal with that.
<troy_s> you can put blah.jpg
<troy_s> and it will number them all like blah-1.jpg
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> if you specifcy a single name, it will number them
<Who_> yea, I want blah_<orig_filename>.png
<Who_> which must be possible
<Who_> convert eye.gif news.gif storm.gif  +adjoin  image_%d.gif was given as an example to do numbering, but6 substituting %f doesn't work
<kwwii> re
<imbrandon> troy_s: ping , it will be a few more hours on that page , i got caughtup doing something else , but it should still have an ETA of today sometime
<imbrandon> anyhow i'm off to lunch , l8tr
<mhb> good evening
<imbrandon> ello
<mhb> what's cooking, doc?
<kwwii> how does one install java on ubuntu?
<mhb> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java
<mhb> read that?
<imbrandon> kwwii: sudo apt-get install sun-java5-jre
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> kwwii: just make sure you have multiverse and universe enabled , but i'm sure you do
<mhb> imbrandon: why jre?
<mhb> imbrandon: he doesn't need most of the stuff there
<mhb> at least I think so  ...
<imbrandon> mhb: thats the "java runtime enviroment" that pulls all the -bin and such
<mhb> imbrandon: well I know
<imbrandon> mhb no telling what he needs, he just asked, that will grab all the bits ;P
<mhb> ok
<mhb> maybe got a bit confused
<mhb> imbrandon: I still think https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java has the right answer
<mhb> imbrandon: I always confuse the JRE and Java SDK
<imbrandon> yea not the sdk just the jre ( runtime environment )
<kwwii> imbrandon: yeah, I have them enabled, thanks for the info :-)
<imbrandon> the wiki needs changed actualy
<kwwii> imbrandon: I want to run batik
<imbrandon> should grab the meta package -jre not -bin
<imbrandon> kwwii: yea then that will work
<kwwii> I could do it with the gnu java compiler too (I have done it before, at least) but it is much slower
<kwwii> and much more buggy
<imbrandon> after you insall it make sure and run " sudo configure-alternatives --java "
<imbrandon> and pick sun so it uses it by defalt not the gnu one
<kwwii> hehe, i will do this tomorrow...getting late here tonight (I woke up at 6 this morning)
<imbrandon> sorry kwwii told you wrong , run " sudo update-alternatives --config java "
<imbrandon> after intall to change the default java
<imbrandon> heheh
<kwwii> cool, that is probably the most important thing I would have missed
<imbrandon> yea i was awake when you woke up and now i have already slept and woke again LOL
<imbrandon> btw and dont use adept to get it , it breaks when it shows the lic agreement
<imbrandon> use aptittude or apt
<imbrandon> ;)
<kwwii> hehe, good to know as well
<kwwii> never tried aptittude
<kwwii> when I started I was using dpkg :p
<kwwii> I was used to yast, and all the things you can do on the console with it
<imbrandon> yea " yast --install <blah> or sudo yast2 & " is about my total yast exp, though i would like to see sax2 in ubuntu
<imbrandon> hrm maybe i'll package it later ;)
* imbrandon contemplates compiling kde4svn on osx
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> good luck
<imbrandon> it would take a week on this 800mhz iBook LOL
<kwwii> and if you figure out how, let me know :p
<imbrandon> well i got kde3 compiled and running on osx
<imbrandon> wasent TOOO hard
<kwwii> yeah, I have actually done it before as well (still have a running system on this OSX)
<kwwii> but kde4 should be something a bit harder I guess
<imbrandon> yea probably but kde4 is SUPOSE to be more osx / windows friendly
<imbrandon> lol SUPOSE to be
<imbrandon> might be esier just to do it with fink but the fink packages are so dated
<imbrandon> would be nice to have a non-X11 inkscape or krita though
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-23
<imbrandon> jmac you see you made sabdfl's blog ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<imbrandon> or better yet just give me damn svg support in PS CS8
<imbrandon> hrm brb
<troy_s> greetz
<kwwii> hey man
<mhb> good evening
* kwwii is going to bed sometime soon
<Viper550> Hello
<troy_s> imbrandon, where is the link for jmac?
<kwwii> btw. everyone, I updated http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas including the svgs for the login manager ideas
<imbrandon> troy_s: one sec
<imbrandon> troy_s: top story on mark shuttleworth.com
<troy_s> i think he means jmak
<troy_s> not jmac
<kwwii> hehe
<troy_s> joz
<kwwii> but troy will be the big boss soon
<kwwii> :p
<troy_s> eek...
<troy_s> what the hell am i doing in there
<imbrandon> heheh
<troy_s> just spent 200 bucks on bloody reference books
<mhb> kwwii: he's not already?
<troy_s> this ubuntu is expensive
<troy_s> not a chance
<mhb> :o))
<troy_s> if i had more time, i would like to contribute more
<kwwii> honestly, he has done more work than anyone on controlling the mailing list and progression in general
<troy_s> blah
<mhb> kwwii: +1
<kwwii> the kinda stuff an artist does not do so well
<imbrandon> kwwii: yea i like that last screenshot ( now we just need purple konq nav icons and a purple K menu ;P ) lol j/k
<kwwii> hehe, imbrandon: the point of that blue screen was to get everyone ready for the purple version :p
<imbrandon> ;)
<troy_s> kwwii:  its that fire breathing dragon of deadline work that rubbed off.
<mhb> troy_s: I think you're doing more than a mortal can
<kwwii> I promise you, living this close the dutch border...purple haze is in my brain
<mhb> troy_s: work, that is
<imbrandon> hahahahahahah kwwii
* imbrandon needs to move to europe dammit
<imbrandon> if i had a job offer in eu i would be gone in a half sec
<imbrandon> lol
<troy_s> mhb, blah.  ubuntu is far more important than most people are aware just yet.
<kwwii> troy_s: honestly, everyting you do is at least, very public :-) and to be honest, I think that was the point
<imbrandon> troy_s: did you get my msg about the staging site ?
<troy_s> it is the first, and perhaps only, distribution that A) has actually hit critical mass and B) has virtually unlimited funds C) is going to actually put FOSS on the map.
<troy_s> imbrandon, yes.  can't wait.
<imbrandon> i got busy with some other stuff here at the house and it will be delayed about ~12 hours from whaty i told ya to begin with but still very much on track
<troy_s> yep
<imbrandon> kk
<troy_s> once that is up, we can start looking at workflow
<mhb> troy_s: unlimited funds?
<imbrandon> yea
<troy_s> i know that drupal has some keyword filters which permits things like "Propose" then sort from it.
<troy_s> mhb, yes.
<mhb> troy_s: why do you think so?
<troy_s> mhb, well... the founding person is a bit of a philanthropist.
<imbrandon> troy_s: yea plus i pride myself as a php hacker ( its how i feed my family ) so anything we need customized i can probably do, if not i can find out how ;P
<troy_s> mhb, and his business model has already generated more momentum than any open source project that i can think of to date.
<troy_s> imbrandon, you absolutely rock.
<troy_s> imbrandon, hopefully it will lighten the load on me with manual imagemagick commands.
<imbrandon> kwwii: wanna do something for me personaly as a favor ? no time limmits or anything
<troy_s> it is hard enough pouring over all the stuff and gathering it up.
<imbrandon> troy_s: yea thats the idea;)
<mhb> troy_s: sure, but I don't think he (or Canonical) has unlimited funds
<troy_s> mhb, well... 560million alone in the bank is a ridiculous amount of money coming in per day on interest alone.
<troy_s> of course, you figure he donated a good 100 million of that.
<mhb> troy_s: I just hope Ubuntu is generating enough money for Canonical
<troy_s> mhb, i believe mark has publically said that he only cares if ubuntu breaks even.
<imbrandon> troy_s: yea but 10mill a day going out in shipit is expensive too ;)
<troy_s> or rather, is happy if it does.
<troy_s> imbrandon, i think shipit was covered by the initial 10million investment.
<imbrandon> troy_s: no shipit is in the hole
<troy_s> imbrandon, and pretty sure it is relatively inexpensive in terms of yield.
<imbrandon> true
<troy_s> imbrandon, you have a link?
<imbrandon> troy_s: somewhere i would have to dig it up
<imbrandon> but yea
<troy_s> i would be interested in it.
<imbrandon> its something like 10 mil for breezy and 50 mil for dapper
<troy_s> i think the bottom line is that the way mr. shuttleworth is spending his money has started to result in some yields.
<imbrandon> thus far
<troy_s> i mean, sun getting into bed with ubuntu is a pretty impressive feat.
<imbrandon> right
<troy_s> interesting.  i would like to see the link.
<imbrandon> yea lemme dig it up , when i do i'll email it to ya
<mhb> troy_s: but - somehow the coupling with closed-source companies troubles me
<kwwii> imbrandon: it depends on what it is :p
<troy_s> mhb, in case you didn't know, i believe that the whole java open source thing was really set afire thanks to that involvement.
<troy_s> etc.
<imbrandon> mhb sun is very open about alot of things infact the niagra t1 proc" they got into bed with" is becosue its "opensource" hardware ;)
<troy_s> and sun has their new head cheese which is probably another reason.
<mhb> don't believe in sun that much
<mhb> last time I was on a sun conference
<imbrandon> mhb: they are the only company that 100% releases the specs on their processors ;)
<imbrandon> "opensource" hardware if you will
<imbrandon> thats what made it possible for ubuntu to come to the T1's before anyone else
<mhb> (opensolaris, to be exact) - the presentation of the Sun's delegates looked like: This, this and this can not be translated by the community, because it's closed
<mhb> and there was a whole lot of things that was like this
<kwwii> openfirmware
<kwwii> hehe
<imbrandon> but as a whole they are tons better than most companies even the likes of nvidia and such
<kwwii> "open"firmware
<imbrandon> heheh yea on apples kwwii  ;)
<kwwii> they did do a good job in the end
<mhb> imbrandon: no doubt about it
<kwwii> but sun is messed up
* imbrandon would love to see a deal with ubuntu and amd
<kwwii> I worked with a team of their developers to make their linux themeing
<imbrandon> lol
<mhb> imbrandon: I look on things in a different way - it`s not enough for me that the company is "more open" than another
<imbrandon> mhb: maybe not but i take what i can get , i'm not a gnu pureist
<kwwii> anyway, about time for bed
<mhb> kwwii: goodnight
<kwwii> imbrandon: you wanted something from me?
<imbrandon> gnight kwwii sleep well
<mhb> imbrandon: me neither
<mhb> imbrandon: but I think the Ubuntu approach is clear
<imbrandon> kwwii: i can ask you tomarrow if i dont get it done myself ;P
<troy_s> Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth has admitted that he spends a significant sum of his own money developing the Linux distribution.
<troy_s> "Ubuntu is expensive," he said, in an interview with German news site Heise, published on Monday. "The distribution costs me a few million dollars a year."
<kwwii> about 10 until now, from what I understand
<troy_s> openfirmware is bloody dumbass.
<kwwii> hehehehehe
<troy_s> i like the idea of linux bios though... very powerful.
<troy_s> might have to buy me a tyan mobo
<kwwii> a friend of mine, who is making a lot of money on openbios (based on the same specs) is doing that working for nasa, google, and others
<imbrandon> troy_s: yea i was thinking the same thing , i like efi too though
<imbrandon> kwwii: nice
<kwwii> efi is evil
<kwwii> but anywasy
<kwwii> anyway
<kwwii> I am going to bed now
<imbrandon> lol ;)
<imbrandon> gnight man sleep well
<kwwii> whether I like it or not
<kwwii> thanks, see you tomorrow
<imbrandon> ok whos the inkscape expert ( /me is tooo used to PS )
<mhb> hehe :o)
<mhb> Ken is
<imbrandon> heh figures ;)
<mhb> imbrandon: I wish I could help you, but I'm the non-artist around here :o)
<mhb> imbrandon: I do stuff like you - php pays my small student bills
<imbrandon> mhb: me also ( i can do graphics when needed ) but i'm the codemonkey ;P
<imbrandon> hehe np, i was just working on some new headers for buntudot.org and was trying to "color shift" them in inkscape like i do in PS but i just said screw it and exported it to my PS
<imbrandon> and did it there ;P
<mhb> imbrandon: heh
<mhb> imbrandon: I wish Adobe was more "open"
<mhb> imbrandon: at least the stuff could work on Ubuntu
<imbrandon> heh i have used OSX for years and payed a pretty penny for my PS programs ;P
<mhb> imbrandon: It's damn way too expensive
<mhb> imbrandon: at least for us here in the Czech Rep.
<imbrandon> i just wish the gimp guys would get the act togather i would love to use it but they say they are as good as ps but its not and you cant convince them of it
<imbrandon> mhb: i pay $700 USD for my copies
<mhb> imbrandon: that's a whole lot of money here
<mhb> :o)
<imbrandon> ;) here too but i find it worth it for myself
<mhb> imbrandon: two desktop computers or a really old car :o)
<imbrandon> mhb: bout the same here
<mhb> imbrandon: many students just steal it and pay for it only when they get paid for their work
<imbrandon> heh
<mhb> imbrandon: it's sad that there are so many software pirates
<mhb> imbrandon: at least here
<imbrandon> yea
<mhb> imbrandon: the mentality here is like: operating system for free? No thanks - I already have my Windows for free.
<mhb> imbrandon: most of my friends are this way
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> but buggy and insecure
<mhb> imbrandon: but it plays all EXE files and games ... the arguments are always the same
<mhb> imbrandon: my schoolmates laughed once that they tried a Linux distribution, they downloaded a simple EXE file and the system asked them what should it do with it?! :o)
<mhb> imbrandon: sad experiences ...
<imbrandon> heh
<mhb> imbrandon: the Photoshop CS2 for Windows costs more than $1000 here
<Viper550> Don't worry, I'm on the quest to make sure Green is not used in Edubuntu Edgy in any way!
<klepas> someone pinged me?
<Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/Edubuntu
<mhb> Viper550: what?
<Viper550> Working on a new theme for Edubuntu
<mhb> Viper550: guess what's my favourite wallpaper ...
<Viper550> The Green Chalkboard of Doom?
<mhb> Viper550: exactly - but here it is called edubuntu-chalkboard.png
<Viper550> I know, that's my nickname for it, don't worry, Edgy won't include it in that form
<mhb> Viper550: I like it because it reflects Ubuntu philosophy and it actually means something
<Viper550> I did make a blackboard version today as a possible predecessor...
<mhb> Viper550: black is not my favourite colour for background, though
<Viper550> Don't worry, I hope on taking it on a similar are direction to Ubuntu Edgy...
<Viper550> Wondering why I hate that green chalkboard?
<mhb> I guess you don't like the colour
<Viper550> It's because the GTK theme and the wallpapers colors clash
<mhb> but it's really soft on the eyes, that's an extra point for me
<Viper550> The only time Green and Red look good together are during Christmas, and on Roses
<Viper550> Make sure you back it up when you go up to Edgy, Edgy won't have it, I know this for a fact
<mhb> Viper550: well, I think I have some dapper cd's handy .o)
<mhb> Viper550: I hope you are cooperating with the Edubuntu artwork team
<Viper550> Umm, packages.ubuntu.com, edubuntu-artwork on Dapper
<Viper550> Yes I am, I did port EdubuntuColors to use Candido (a new GTK engine we might be using for Edgy)
<mhb> that's good to hear :o)
<Viper550> http://candido.berlios.de/pages/engine.php (For the engine)
<Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/Edubuntu (for the theme)
<imbrandon> Viper550: you are too high strung, and you cannot know it for a fact as 1) its not totaly decidecd by you and 2) the finaly edgy artwork is not out, now you can work twords it not being included but choose your words carefully
<Viper550> I say might as we've recently begun discussing it on the list
<Viper550> It's a PROPOSITION, I know how those work!
<imbrandon> Viper550: yes i follow the list and your proposals closely but "i know for a fact it wont be included" is just dead wrong and i emplore you to choose your words closely and tone it down a bit
<imbrandon> he has a good spirtit but gos about things all wrong
<mhb> imbrandon: he seems to decide things on his own
<imbrandon> mhb: exaactly
<mhb> imbrandon: I guess he needs to join (and follow) the community more
<imbrandon> ;)
<mhb> but I'm not the guy who should tell him
<imbrandon> sure , why not, its everyones job to ;)
<imbrandon> anyhow i'm afk for a while , gonna finish up some of this stuff
<mhb> imbrandon: sure, see you later
<imbrandon> sad thing is he dont even use ubuntu
<Who_> troy_s: you still wanting that summary email?
<Who_> Has anyone here got any idea how to render some spilled water (I.E a small puddle on a flat surface) in SVG!?
<Who_> beacuse your help would make me a happy man :)
<Who_> for example some mercury droplets
<mhb> Who_: sorry, no idea :o)
<troy_s> who
<troy_s> check that older textures page
<troy_s> you will see a couple of water ripples
<troy_s> Who_, copy?
<mhb> does anyone know if Ubuntu/Kubuntu has an official artwork for slideshows, presentations and the like?
<troy_s> ???
<troy_s> slideshows?
<troy_s> imbrandon inkscape is very good... i would encourage you learn it.
<mhb> troy_s: what's that weird?
<troy_s> i don't know what you mean mhb
<mhb> troy_s: well, presentations
<Who_> mhb: you mean a presentation template?
<mhb> Who_: yeah
<troy_s> oh yes
<troy_s> of course
<troy_s> openoffice's presentation
<troy_s> loads powerpoint too etc.
<mhb> troy_s: I wanted to know if there'an official template or something like that
<troy_s> i believe so...
<mhb> troy_s: because I'm not skilled with oo.org at all :o)
<troy_s> did you check the templates?
<troy_s> its pretty simple.
<troy_s> just a tool.
<troy_s> back in  afew.
<mhb> troy_s: what templates?
<mhb> troy_s: there's too many templates in Ubuntu ... wiki templates etc.
<troy_s> have you started presenter?
<troy_s> when you start, it gives you the option of loading a 'template'
<mhb> troy_s: yeah, there's something
<mhb> troy_s: thanks
<mhb> troy_s: I tried to create one by hand, but the program is definitely not "me-friendly" :o)
<mhb> well, that's it for tonight
<mhb> :o)
<mhb> good night to you all
<mhb> :o)
<mhb> like talking to myself ...
<Who_> troy_s: I'm taking photos for Blubuntu (just for fun, really :P)
<Who_> Honey is good, but the wrong colour, shower gel is the right colour and a bit too runny - ketchup is too think (AND the wrong colour). There may be a future in glucose syrup with colouring :P
<Who_> but it doesn't givce any kind of 'wrapping' "now guys, the central idea for the theme is 'glucose syrup with colouring'" just doesn't seem to work :P
<troy_s> lol Who_
<Who_> troy_s: I miss being a kid when you didn't have to justify this kind of stuff :P
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> hilarious
<troy_s> whostein
<troy_s> Who_,
<troy_s> the links you had for blubuntu were changed by someone, just to let you know.
<troy_s> i think someone slushed the old incoming into /evaluation
<Who_> :S ouch!
<Who_> troy_s: can I put it back!?
<troy_s> well incoming is purposefully unstable...
<troy_s> perhaps we need a /ThemeTeam dir
<troy_s> i would put it somewhere stable.
<Who_> it seems to still be at Incoming
<Who_> jees, just noticed it is 4:30!
<troy_s> hrm... link?
<Who_> ...? I was talking about the time!
<Who_> (AM)
<troy_s> i know
<troy_s> or do you mean can you put the time back?
<troy_s> lol
<Who_> troy_s: do you need this list tonight?
<troy_s> Who_, no when you get around to it.
<Who_> cool, it's bedtime!
<troy_s> Though I might ask that you take the lead and establish the "ThemeTeams" dir
<troy_s> and stick all three theme team related things into it.
<Who_> and I've got to go and clean up a bunch of trays with radox, honey and other crap on them before I sleep
<Who_> yea, will do :)
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> Incoming is being purged.
<troy_s> Fixing like 100000000 links
<troy_s> etc.
<Who_> Good work!
<Who_> I read that you got some design books for Ubuntu...what are they?
<mhb> hey everyone
<Viper550> I noticed that the new Murrine engine got released today
<troy_s> so?
<troy_s> Viper550,  you really need to watch the way you phrase things friend.
<Viper550> oh, okay
<troy_s> Some of your posts and wiki entries come off as being derogatory towards the participants, and I am fielding complaints.  Ok?
<troy_s> Sound fair?
<troy_s> Think of it as a learning exercize -- it will force you to figure out exactly what it is you are criticizing.  For example, there are a selection of very good artworks out there that are green, so it isn't simply the fact that someone uses green that makes it seem off.
<troy_s> It is more complicated.
<troy_s> Anyways, now you know.
<troy_s> Thanks for listening.
<Viper550> You know, my comments about the wallpaper actually date back to when Dapper RC1 came out? I didn't know the whole story until today
<troy_s> That's fine.
<troy_s> Comments are fine.
<troy_s> The problem with _your_ comments is that they are A) ill informed (green isn't a good enough reason -- ask Picasso)
<troy_s> B) They are rather adversarial and derogatory at times.
<troy_s> C) They don't offer any constructive additional criticism that lends towards the future.
<troy_s> Okie?
<Viper550> Okay, so the theme looked a bit weird because the wallpaper used clashed with the theme colors, would that be a better statement?
<troy_s> The mailing list isn't a forum to flog your own personal work.
<troy_s> Yes, but I would think it through even more than that.
<troy_s> Find samples of successful works that use the same colour scheme, etc.
<troy_s> There are MANY aspects to art that result in something being positive or negative.
<troy_s> A short list might be: Colour application, Composition, Societal Trends, etc.
<troy_s> Colour composition changes as society adjusts its trends.
<troy_s> As does compositional trends.
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> Understand?
<Viper550> http://www.linuxshots.com/main.php?g2_itemId=552 (this is my example, Silver and Blue look very nice together)
<troy_s> Yes, but all you offer are colour changes.
<troy_s> You really need to spend more time
<troy_s> developing
<troy_s> Don't just pinch off some simple colour tweaks and a window border.
<troy_s> Look at the whole package.
<troy_s> Have you seen the work that Who_ has done for his ThemeTeam?
<troy_s> It's massive
<troy_s> It has research.
<troy_s> Etc.
<Viper550> Erm, I would look...if the wiki wern't down!
<troy_s> You post countless colour combinations that aren't difficult to do at home.  You need to really spend more time developing, otherwise people will just tune you out as 'noise'.
<troy_s> And that will effect you because you won't get comments, you will irritate people, and no one will take your work seriously.
<troy_s> And I want people to take your work seriously.  But you need to get a more objective stance.
<troy_s> And learn your craft if you are going to call yourself an artist.
<troy_s> Perhaps learn an art term and build a theme around its motivations.  It would be a good learning exercise.
<troy_s> Remember this:  The mailing list is for the DEFAULT installation of Ubuntu primarily.  ThemeTeams are still allowed to post, but if the clutter gets to be too much, they will get assigned their own lists -- and this means less exposure.
<troy_s> MANY important folks are on that mailing list, so know that when you post.
<troy_s> Ok?
<Viper550> I know all this
<troy_s> Then why would you post off-the-cuff comments that offend folks?
<troy_s> Viper550, ?
<Viper550> About the usplash, I actually liked that new design! It was pretty neat
<troy_s> That's fine.
<Viper550> And on Edubuntu (which sparked this whole thing)
<troy_s> Well, no
<troy_s> I had a bunch of complaints from prior to your last Edubuntu outburst.
<Viper550> From what?
<troy_s> I mean you wanted to be artist in chief for Xubuntu and you didn't even know the primary developer NOR do you even run *buntu.
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> Not from that instance in particular, but from people who believe you post too much and you simply post colour schemes.
<troy_s> I admire your energy, but you need to focus and work your craft if you want to be taken seriously.
<Viper550> Back in the earlier Dapper cycle, I had so many Splash Screen propositions
<troy_s> Post fewer posts that are A) more well thought out (not offensive), B) More strategically planned, etc.
<troy_s> That's fine.
<troy_s> Working for a company in creative graphic design is the same thing.
<troy_s> Don't get so personally attached to your work.
<Viper550> And, we were all mad about what happened with the ugly Usplash artwork
<troy_s> Not exactly, that was a lack of organization.
<troy_s> We have good organization now, so we need you to help reduce the clutter.
<Viper550> Yeah, but it at least led to some great propositions
<troy_s> No amount of complaining will yield good propositions.
<troy_s> Organization and development will.
<troy_s> And remember, 'ugly' is a purely relative term.
<troy_s> One person's meat is another person's poison.
<troy_s> Temper your posts.
<troy_s> Read sabdfl's last post at his blog about the 'clutter' on the mailing list.
<troy_s> Take it to heart.
<Viper550> where is his blog?
<troy_s> If you don't, there will be moderated mailing lists implemented with stricter guidelines.
<troy_s> www.markshuttleworth.com
<troy_s> So don't break the system by flogging it with rubbish, OK?  Respect it.  Be a constructive part of it.  Learn from it.
<Viper550> Umm, his site is down too
<troy_s> Yes, his is hosted by all of the ubuntu server end I believe.
<Viper550> Yes, all of the Ubuntu related sites are down, this might be a problem...
<troy_s> It will be resolved soon I believe.
<troy_s> Anyways, I have said my piece directly to you, and I hope you will respect where it is coming from.
<Viper550> Okay...
<troy_s> Sound fair?
<Viper550> Okay, when it's all back up, it's going to be a little different out of me!
<troy_s> Because I don't intend this to be a personal attack.
<troy_s> I want you to channel your energy into more constructive work.
<troy_s> And perhaps limit yourself to one post per week initially -- so that you are forced to focus on your work.  Try something new.  Then offer a weekly summary or something?
<troy_s> Examine the work that Who_ has laid out for the ThemeTeams... maybe try learning from his structure.  Learn from the existing structure that the ubuntu-art team is trying to establish.
<troy_s> Etc.
<troy_s> Sound like a good plan?
<Viper550> Unless it's a good comment towards something posted, of course!
<troy_s> Even then, perhaps show restraint.
<troy_s> Think about it for a day before you reply.
<troy_s> Write up something in a text editor and EDIT it to make sure you don't make your previous mistakes.
<troy_s> Something to fix that nasty trend that makes people mad and unhappy with the list.
<Viper550> okay
<troy_s> Great.
<troy_s> Thanks for listening Viper.
<troy_s> It's appreciated.
<Viper550> Now, to contribute more to my real distro...
<troy_s> phew
<Viper550> Just kidding, I don't even have mailing lists subscribed to for Fedora!
<troy_s> Perhaps if you are a strong supporter of Fedora, you should dedicate yourself to that.
<troy_s> Grr.
<mhb> what can I say ...
<mhb> I guess: "Let's hope he understood what you were telling him."
<troy_s> mhb, I think I was pretty clear
<troy_s> mhb, and I haven't spoken directly to him before about it.
<troy_s> greetings Who_
<Who_> hiya
<Who_> troy_s: know what is wrong with ubuntu.com?
<troy_s> Word has it that you broke it all.
<troy_s> Everyone has been looking for you Who_
<Who_> why?, who?
<troy_s> Everyone...
<troy_s> from all over the globe
<troy_s> They think you broke the wiki, the broke ubuntu.com
<troy_s> then
<troy_s> It's all over bbc.com
<Who_> I dis ...muhahahah
<troy_s> ;)
<Who_> though I do have 44 lsplash variations that could well break the wiki when I upload the contact sheet :P
<troy_s> Lol.
<Who_> if it ever comes back to life
<troy_s> Frank wants good and loose right now for proposals, so we should try and keep to his lead.
<troy_s> Ship them to me.
<troy_s> You got a jabber account with gaim or something?
<Who_> oh, no, I forgot about that
<troy_s> launchpad is down too... i suspect all of canonical is down.
<Who_> does my gmail account work as a gchat accoun or do I need to register separately
<troy_s> of course
<Who_> all of canonical is down
<troy_s> just plug in this info:
<troy_s> http://www.google.com/support/talk/bin/answer.py?answer=24073
<troy_s> You are running gaim correct?
<Who_> indeed :)
<Who_> that I zip these up and email them though
<troy_s> you could do that too.
<troy_s> hit gaim up and you can ship me a contact sheet that way
<Who_> at 44 it might be time to start applying KISS to this :P
<troy_s> LAF>
<troy_s> I would suggest the following:
<troy_s> Break the work down into compositional elements.
<troy_s> Meaning only do a single variant (the best one you can find) for a single composition.
<troy_s> For example, if you are playing with two variables -- say the Ubuntu text logo and the Ubuntu circle of friends
<troy_s> Do ONE up with Both elements.
<troy_s> ONE with just the logo
<troy_s> ONE with just the test
<troy_s> text even
<troy_s> And perhaps repeat the cycle with a different stylistic shape for whatever you are doing (for example, different pill size /location for the lsplash)
<troy_s> That way you have distinct directions to follow along.
<troy_s> There isn't much sense in trying the same ideas with different backgrounds, just assume someone can visualize from your textural references.
<troy_s> Treat it like a mix and match creation station sort of thing :)
<troy_s> with me?
<troy_s> Who_, you emailing me that contact sheet?
<Who_> I just can't stop making them... cos I keep getting new ideas
<Who_> I'll make an interim one now
<Who_> hmm...I keep getting authentication failures with gtalk
<troy_s> did you fix the extra bits at the bottom?
<troy_s> its that second set of items that permits it to work... namly that TLS and talk.google.com stuffs.
<troy_s> that's usually where folks go wrong.
<troy_s> Who_, any luck?
<Who_> troy_s: I'll check again, but i though I'd done it
<troy_s> check that lower stuff.  :)(
<troy_s> and make sure it is set to jabber etc... :)
<Who_> troy_s: yea, it's all there. I wonder whether the googlemail vs gmail thing has an effect
<troy_s> what is googlemail?
<troy_s> i thought googlemail was gmail.
<troy_s> Who_, give me an email.;
<Who_> troy_s: indeed it is, the addresses are interchangeable at the moment (googlemail emerged because of trademark issues in the UK - us UK people who got accounts after a certain date must have googlemail accounts)
<Who_> gaim works now, had to change server to googlemail.com
<troy_s> how strange.
<troy_s> didn' tknow there was a difference
<Viper550> Still down...when will this end?
<mhb> Viper550: don't think this is the correct channel where you should ask
<mhb> Viper550: I don't think
<Viper550> I know, but still, even worse the Wiki is down, so I can't post the new beta of Tropic I just finished
<Viper550> At least I found somewhere to upload it... http://rapidshare.de/files/26757073/Tropic_Beta_3.tar.gz.html
<mhb> Viper550: AFAIK beta version of a program/theme is a state where it is feature complete, ready to get tested by the community
<Viper550> The first 2 were "internal" betas, now I'm going to let the public (the #ubuntu irc channel) try it out!
<mhb> Viper550: hm, don't think this is how it works
<Viper550> how does it work? It didn't say on the down wiki that we couldn't do public betas
<mhb> Viper550: but every so-called "beta version" was almost a brand new version
<Viper550> Because there were so many changes, I keep on satisfying all the complaints, like moving to lower saturation, changing the wallpaper, and now I've changed it to use a brand new GTK engine!
<Viper550> Okay, even though the file name says "beta3", I'm calling this 1.0, and will probably reupload it with that name
<mhb> so you think you have it finished?
<Viper550> Yes, for the GTK theme and Metacity at least
<Viper550> and the Wallpaper too....
<Viper550> http://rapidshare.de/files/26757828/Tropic_Version1.tar.gz.html
<mhb> Viper550: I think you should do more "internal testing" before you try to present a new version to the people
<mhb> Viper550: just internally, in the theme team
<Viper550> Then, we hit a time-based flaw
<Viper550> The whole "The System is Down" problem we've got here
<mhb> Viper550: maybe it's a hint you shouldn't post a new version right away
<Viper550> At least it's been a good little bit since the last one
<mhb> Viper550: instead of posting so many new versions on the ML and wiki, maybe what you need to do is organization
<Viper550> Hmm, Organization...
<mhb> Viper550: how many people are members of the Tropic Theme-Team?
<Viper550> 1
<mhb> Viper550: if you get more people there, you can criticise the work you do without informing the core Ubuntu artists
<mhb> Viper550: a good piece of art is not finished after a few minutes ... it's hard work, too.
<Viper550> Are any of the other people in here active?
<mhb> Viper550: I think the people here already know about your Tropic effort ... maybe you should search for volunteers elsewhere on the Internet
<mhb> Viper550: there are many young and good artists there
<Viper550> Maybe until the servers come back up, I'll just go work on Uslab and think about this later...have a nice rest of your day!
<mhb> kwwii: good evening
<mhb> kwwii: I'm glad to see you :o)
<kwwii> hi mhb
<mhb> kwwii: I played with the shutdown screen yesterday
<mhb> kwwii: until 4 in the mornign
<kwwii> mhb: hehe, I know that feeling
<mhb> I tried to 1. start from the work you have done 2. try to make the shutdown dialog a bit similar to the Ubuntu shutdown dialog
<mhb> kwwii: please, have a look: http://img161.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shutdownedgy1sk7.png
<mhb> kwwii: I used Oxygen icons, although a bit "incorrectly", because there are no icons for shutdown/restart yet
<kwwii> mhb: well, there is an icon for shudown
<kwwii> boah, that looks killer :-)
<mhb> I can put it on the Kubuntu ideas wiki, if you approve it
<kwwii> that would be a great idea
<kwwii> I'd love it :-)
<mhb> kwwii: I'll do more variations when I have time
<kwwii> mhb: sounds great
<mhb> kwwii: I can't even find where I can attach a file to the wiki :o)
<mhb> kwwii: it seems I don't like wikis too
<mhb> kwwii: or the other way around
<kwwii> attachment:yourfilename
<kwwii> then, when you save the changes instead of a link for the file, there will be a link which allows you to upload the file(s)
<mhb> kwwii: OK, done. Take a look, please.
<kwwii> except for the fact that the buttons looks pretty nasty, it is nice
<kwwii> did you export them directly from the SVGs at that size or scale them up with gimp?
<mhb> kwwii: it's all SVG
<mhb> kwwii: just the background is not
<kwwii> wow
<kwwii> that is nasty
<kwwii> and we should fix the svg
<mhb> kwwii: I'll attach the SVG version to the wiki
<kwwii> mhb: cool :-)
<Sk_Bco> what's the link please?
<mhb> Sk_Bco: what link?
<Sk_Bco> mhb: the link to the wiki page where one can see your file
<kwwii> http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas
<Sk_Bco> thanks
<mhb> kwwii: SVG link added
<kwwii> mhb: I think it was just my browser, scaling the pic that made it look bad
<kwwii> on my other system the buttons look much better
<mhb> Sk_Bco: so, what do you think?
<Sk_Bco> which pic on the page are we talking about right now?
<kwwii> the shutdown screen mockup
<Sk_Bco> On first sight the buttons look a bit nasty indeed
<Sk_Bco> but I think that's because they are different from the other sets of buttons
<mhb> Sk_Bco: hm ...
<mhb> Sk_Bco: they are in the same icon set (kwwii?)
<Sk_Bco> that's your final version?
<mhb> Sk_Bco: no, of course not
<mhb> Sk_Bco: but I'm not the one who made the icons
<Sk_Bco> I see
<kwwii> the icons are from the oxygen set
<Sk_Bco> How about adding some color? Just some color, not too much ...
<Sk_Bco> ... maybe coloring the parts of the icons that are white
<Sk_Bco> according to the actions ... e.g. red for "shutdown"
<Sk_Bco> But in general I think it is nice
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> about time for bed
* kwwii has a long day tomorrow
<Sk_Bco> same here
<Sk_Bco> Goodnight! :-)
<Sk_Bco> Bye!
<mhb> kwwii: goodnight
<Guitarhero> Hey where can I get the ubuntu title font?
<mhb> Guitarhero: in Ubuntu?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-07-16
<devghai> hi all
<devghai> need help with compiz on kubuntu dapper with intel 915 motherboard using intel i816 driver
<devghai> i810*
<devghai> oops! wrong channel!
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-07-18
* #ubuntu-artwork  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<MenZa> Hey guys; can anyone tell me where I can find the glossy Ubuntu logo used on the gdm and boot loader themes?
<MenZa> SVG is preferred, but PNG will do
<kwwii> from Feisty?
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/usplash_2fc.svg
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/gdmFrom_2fc.svg
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-14
<kwwii> re
<kooldude> hi
 * _MMA_ waves.
<kooldude> how are you people today
<_MMA_> Quiet.
<kooldude> k
<_MMA_> Not much of a social channel.
<kooldude> it's actualy a ubuntu working/nerdtalk channel
<kooldude> but we socialize every now-and-then
<thorwil> i thought it's a boring channel?
<kooldude> not really...
<thorwil> especially without troy
<kooldude> once someone responds it gets interesting;-)
<kooldude> here...
<thorwil> i'm on the edge of my seat already
<_MMA_> kooldude: You talk like you hang out in here? Who are you?
<thorwil> _MMA_: the grasshopper is a veteran of ... i would guess a few days ;)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Ahh...
<kooldude> i am a 13-year-old that likes to create
<kooldude> themes and artwork
<kooldude> for ubuntu
<kooldude> im trying to get my latest work on the newer version
<kooldude> ill show you
<_MMA_> kooldude: Please only Link me to things.
<kooldude> k... srry
<kooldude> ill bring you the link
<_MMA_> Paste it in here.
<kooldude> im in the prosess
<kooldude> http://www.flickr.com/photos/16923078@N02/2655794027/
<kooldude> im working on a dark theme
<kooldude> here is the windows
<_MMA_> Ok. Because that's just really a desktop shot with a Ayo wallpaper.
<kooldude> actually i don't know how to let you try it
<_MMA_> Show shots of Nautilus/Firefox.
<_MMA_> Or install the-widget-factory ad that will show the various parts of a theme altogether.
<kooldude> k
<kooldude> i did
<kooldude> http://www.flickr.com/photos/16923078@N02/2656621096/sizes/o/
<kooldude> there
<kooldude> but i changed it a little so
<kooldude> ill send you 1 photo
<geek_inn2> hi
<geek_inn2> devels
<geek_inn2> i have some wallpapers
<geek_inn2> i created,so where can upload so that they get appreciation
<_MMA_> kooldude: What is your goal here? To hang out and chat about art or contribute to the team? (used loosely)
<_MMA_> geek_inn2: The wiki.
<geek_inn2> i think my creation is good and enough 2 compete with others
<_MMA_> 1 sec.
<kooldude> my goal is contribute
<geek_inn2> how its all confusing in wiki
<geek_inn2> give me particular link
<kooldude> ?
<kooldude> who are you taking to
<kooldude> me or the other
<_MMA_> geek_inn2: Find a place under here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork or post links on the mailing list. https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<_MMA_> kooldude: Again, don't send me files.
<kooldude> k
<kooldude> i crashed
<pwnguin> hey kooldude
<pwnguin> fyi, this connection never leaves, barring network outages
<kooldude> do you have remote desktop veier
<thorwil> kooldude: i hope you still have all your teeth
<kooldude> veiwer*
<pwnguin> kooldude: so if you /msg me and I dont respond immediately, i'm probably sleeping, or making dinner, or watching a show
<kooldude> i waited...
<pwnguin> I do however, see them when i reconnect to screen
<pwnguin> you left
<kooldude> yeah.. because my sytem froze
<pwnguin> not today
<kooldude> i dont mean to be rude
<pwnguin> a couple days ago
<kooldude> ooohhhh... ok
<kooldude> i had to go then however
<kooldude> my mom told me to get off
<kooldude> for then
<pwnguin> well, all the /msgs and highlights sit on queue for me when i return
<kooldude> srry
<pwnguin> so if you've got anything important to ask, just ask and I'll try to get back on it
<kooldude> k\
<kooldude> i will do that
<pwnguin> alternatively, just ask the channel; you can even find irc logs of all this
<pwnguin> irclogs.ubuntu.com
<kooldude> k
<kooldude> kool
 * pwnguin is sad
<kooldude> now... do you have Remote Desktop Veiwer
<pwnguin> I put out a request for help on the mailing list, and the only replies were to use a different font
<pwnguin> I do
<kooldude> k
<kooldude> want to connect
<kooldude> to mine
<pwnguin> surely you're firewalled
<kooldude> i yeah... but i can bypass it
<kooldude> my dad created that acception
<_MMA_> Man. That's damn trusting.
<pwnguin> you can set up such things as view only
<pwnguin> and you probably should before publishing connection info
<kooldude> how
<pwnguin> on ubuntu
<pwnguin> ?
<kooldude> to set up "veiw only"
<pwnguin> system->preferences->remote desktop
<pwnguin> general->sharing-> allow others to view your desktop
<kooldude> k
<pwnguin> then uncheck "allow others to control the desktop"
<pwnguin> it occurs to me that the help dialog is not helpful, though it's trying very har
<pwnguin> d
<pwnguin> "Users can view your desktop by using this command: vncviewer localhost.localdomain:0
<kooldude> here it is... ill wisper the access password to you
<pwnguin> kooldude: then, under advanced make sure you click require encryption
<kooldude> i did
<kooldude> there
<kooldude> my command is vncveiwer kooldude-desktop:0
<pwnguin> not helpful
<kooldude> ?
<kooldude> try
<pwnguin> that domain is only known to your computer
<kooldude> right
<pwnguin> not mine
<kooldude> ip address then?
<_MMA_> Guys. This really should be in PM.
<geek_inn2> http://i33.tinypic.com/2re7gb8.png
<geek_inn2> i dont know how to post them
<pwnguin> what's that for?
<pwnguin> a GNOME background or gdm?
<_MMA_> geek_inn2: Im sorry but the pic is rather amateur. How the logo was cut out is really bad.
<geek_inn2> background
<pwnguin> geek_inn2: the logo has resolution problems =(
<pwnguin> we have an svg
<zerwas> geek_inn2, looks like you did it way too complicated how you cut out the ubuntu logo. you could use an SVG for that
<zerwas> ^^"
<geek_inn2> i have more
<geek_inn2> i had logo in other file ,whats the best way to combine
<kooldude> srry my connection went out
<kooldude> im waiting on pwnguin
<_MMA_> geek_inn2: Use any of these: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
<geek_inn2> how to create GDM
<geek_inn2> ok,there is one more back i have......http://i34.tinypic.com/28hidkj.png
<_MMA_> geek_inn2: Best to grab one and look through it.
<geek_inn2> ok,iam posting it on gnome-looks lets see what others say
<pwnguin> geek_inn2: if you use layers
<pwnguin> then it smusch easier to change things like the logo
<geek_inn2> its average art??,only deviant have produced good work nobdy is really competent enough with my work,also its not amateur i created for high resolution only,but the logo seems to create nuisance
<pwnguin> geek, im just saying it will look better with the svg loco in place
<geek_inn2> did u check the other wall
<_MMA_> geek_inn2: Yes. Very average. Im sorry. Even the average isnt good enough.
<geek_inn2> ya i will get svg in next wall,by the way will it work great in ps
<pwnguin> it should
<pwnguin> if it doesnt then GIMP has a clear winning use case
<kooldude> ï»¿/whois kooldude
<kooldude> hmmmm
<pwnguin> without the funny ascii in front
<kooldude> oh... of cource
<geek_inn2> what ur saying is use official logo...@MMA
<pwnguin> geek_inn2: in svg form, yes
<geek_inn2> great thanks for link iam getting SVG now
<_MMA_> geek_inn2: I'm saying more than that. The overall makeup of the pictures is bad.
<geek_inn2> yaa
<geek_inn2> maybe ur taste is bad
<pwnguin> haha
<_MMA_> I'm sorry. Nobody likes to hear it.
<geek_inn2> thanks but no thanks...it wont hurt me ill make many more....hahaha
<_MMA_> Great.
<pwnguin> geek_inn2: make yourself a deviant art account or whatnot
<geek_inn2> are u developer
<pwnguin> then you can get long term storage
<pwnguin> and maybe some feedback
<geek_inn2> is it unofficial to edit ubuntu text....should keep it like that only?
<geek_inn2> as graphic art....we do all kind of twist with text and graphics
<_MMA_> geek_inn2: I am a developer. I guess its best to post to GNOME-Look.
<geek_inn2> art work developer?
<pwnguin> the circle of friends should be available without any text
<geek_inn2> thankz penguin
<geek_inn2> ur great man
<geek_inn2> did u check my walls
<geek_inn2> both?
<pwnguin> I did
<_MMA_> geek_inn2: Among other things.
<geek_inn2> i thought so....
<pwnguin> i think its not nice to declare people who dont like your wallpaper in bad taste
<geek_inn2> well photoshop doesnt recognize SVG file
<geek_inn2> great news
<pwnguin> really?
<geek_inn2> ya and its CS3
<pwnguin> that doesnt seem right. it might be under import or something
<_MMA_> pwnguin: Sorry you feel that way. I'm not gonna shine people on. I'm happy to help people learn.
<pwnguin> _MMA_: what?
<geek_inn2> shine????,what u mean
<pwnguin> my sentence appears to have been poorly constructed, let me try again
<geek_inn2> well iam really learning see...starting from scratch 2 use ....unknown windows file format....SVG
<pwnguin> geek_inn2: i think you're making a mistake by concluding critics of your work have no taste
<_MMA_> pwnguin: "Shine people on" Tell then their work is good when it's not.
<geek_inn2> well that was aptly said....he is critizing me and iam too criticizing his taste
<geek_inn2> thats whole joke....
<geek_inn2> i dont care about anybody's thou...i do just work
<_MMA_> Great! :)
<vadi2> Hi. On this page: 'https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/NewHumanTesting' it says 'Comments on the viability of using a dark theme do not belong here!'. Where do they belong?
<_MMA_> vadi2: The mailing list I suppose.
<vadi2> ok
<zerwas> Is there any work going on in improving/changing the human icon theme?
<_MMA_> zerwas: Just brainstorming atm.
<zerwas> _MMA_, is there a place where i can read about it?
<_MMA_> The mailing list.
<_MMA_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<zerwas> yes i am subscribed to it
<zerwas> but i don't see brainstorming there ;-) ... i can't wait to see this theme finished http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG
<zerwas> ah, there it is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Intrepid_Ibex_Icons_-_Art_Team
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-15
<Guest56634> anybody online
<kwwii_> moin
<rxvt> hello is possible to get the ltv package????
<rxvt> where i find?
<kwwii_> ltv?
<rxvt> kwwii_: long terminal support a project of ubuntu-art
<rxvt> sorry
<rxvt> *vision
<rxvt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Long_Term_Vision
<kwwii_> ahhh, I get it
<kwwii_> the information is all we have atm
<rxvt> atm?
<kwwii_> at the moment
<rxvt> not exist theme for mayanna????
<zerwas> hey rxvt
<zerwas> i was a bit involved in gimmie. It is GTK+ so it will look like the theme you set for it
<rxvt> uhm
<rxvt> i don't like the default mayanna style
<rxvt> :)
<kooldude> hi
<kooldude> how do i get my theme published?
<_MMA_> To?
<kooldude> the next version
<kooldude> of ubuntu
<_MMA_> It would have to be reviewed and later packaged.
<_MMA_> *If* it were good enough.
<kooldude> aaahhhh
<kooldude> yes but how does it get reveiwed
<_MMA_> It should go on the wiki and a notice on the mailing list.
<_MMA_> The proper people will see it.
<_MMA_> A sub-page of: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid
<_MMA_> In all honesty, even without seeing it, the likelihood of it being included is small. It will have to be of exceptional quality and meet many a criteria.
<kooldude> my friend did that and the only problem is one that i fixed
<_MMA_> ?
<psyke83> hey
<kooldude> the text was hard to read
<kooldude> srry i had to fix somthing
<kooldude> you were saying
<_MMA_> "ï»¿kooldude: my friend did that and the only problem is one that i fixed" I have no clue the reference. Did what?
<psyke83> kwwii, hey, did you notice that nautilus' treeview looks strange with NewHuman? I think it's because the toolbar separator is disabled and nautilus doesn't draw a line on the top part of the treeview for some reason
<kooldude> he posted a snapshot and got feedback
<kooldude> he said they thought it was great but it needed a better font
<DBO> hello art people, are any artists present here?
<psyke83> *treeview header
<kooldude> me
<kooldude> im an arteast
<kooldude> lol
<DBO> how do you feel about gnome-do?
<kooldude> ?
<DBO> never heard of it?
<kooldude> not yet
<kooldude> exept for just now
<DBO> do.davebsd.com
<kooldude> k
<DBO> its quicksilver like application for GNOEM
<DBO> GNOME even
<kooldude> kool
<DBO> so erm, on that note, where do we go hunting for people with artist talent and vision
<DBO> I have been dragging a net across all of our development team and it turns out to us the gimp is a character in pulp fiction first and something like an image viewer second...
<kooldude> well im kinda dedicated for this activity for now
<kooldude> but thanks for the offer
<DBO> no problem... just poking around for talented people who like us
<kooldude> maybe if you give me your email i can get back to you
<DBO> jason.a.smith@wmich.edu
<kooldude> ty
<kooldude> hey
<kooldude> i have a great idea for a new theme
<DBO> lets hear it
<kooldude> it could be called skyways
<DBO> okay
<kooldude> and i found an extreamly good site to get icons for it
<kooldude> here it is
<kooldude> http://www.iconarchive.com/category/folder/sky-folder-icons-by-tea00.html
<kooldude> there free... and i bet that the guy that created the icons would love to have them included
<kooldude> i can find the system icons here
<kooldude> http://www.iconarchive.com/category/application/blend-icons-by-laurent-baumann.html
<_MMA_> DBO: You run GNOME-Do?
<kooldude> no
<DBO> _MMA_, at current, yes
<kooldude> ohh... oh well
<_MMA_> ï»¿kooldude: Wasnt directed at you. ;)
<kooldude> oh ok
<_MMA_> DBO: Im sure there's a good many people on the ubuntu-art ML that use GNOME-Do. A post to the list might be a more fruitful endeavor.
<DBO> alrighty
<kooldude> the other icons that are mac trademarked will be edited
<DBO> i was hoping to just strike it lucky
<DBO> but posting is easy =)
<kooldude> so does anyone like my idea
<kooldude> ?
<_MMA_> ï»¿kooldude: Best to post to the list.
<kooldude> and how do i do that?
<_MMA_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<kooldude> there
<kooldude> my email has been sent
<kooldude> hey dbo
<kooldude> can i change the message
<kooldude> kwwi
<kooldude> i need you!!!!
<_MMA_> Because exclamation points make people come faster.
<kooldude> ?
<kooldude> can anyone change the message up top
<_MMA_> To?
<kooldude> i wanted to change it to "don't drink the ketchup"
<_MMA_> Um no.
<kooldude> lol
<kooldude> srry
<kooldude> just had to get that out of my system
<_MMA_> kooldude: This isn't really a "hang out and be silly" channel. Most people in here I would say are interested in Ubuntu's art and only that. #ubuntu-offtopic is best for general sillyness. ;)
<kooldude> srry
<kooldude> i am participating
<_MMA_> It's just a FYI.
<kooldude> i just have an outburst every ounce and a while
<kooldude> but thanks for the channel info
<kooldude> ill be back
<DBO> im here
<kooldude> private chat
<kooldude> does anyone here use ekiga softphone?
<kooldude> i tried going to the "offtopic" channel but nowon is there
<zerwas> kooldude, tried a few times. bad quality :-(
<_MMA_> "ï»¿nowon"
<_MMA_> ?
<kooldude> i need to know how it works though
<_MMA_> kooldude: Best to look at its site or Google. Nothing better than going to it's source.
<kooldude> so in order to test i need someone to beep me in
<zerwas> you mean to talk to him?
<kooldude> me yes
<zerwas> mh i don't speak english ;)
<kooldude> but first thing is first... my volume sliders arn't working
<kooldude> they wont stay
<kooldude> for the softphone
<_MMA_> kooldude: Please take it to PM or one of the various support channels.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-16
<emgent> hello
<kwwii> moin moin
<xanax`> hello
<xanax`> Is there a way to "test" the upcoming Intrepid Ibex dark theme on my ubuntu 8.04 system ?
<xanax`> Hmm. I found the way to do it.
<Viper550> I've noticed the new dark theme Intrepid has
<zerwas> Viper550, nice.
<zerwas> Viper550, or do you mean a change to the dark theme?
<Viper550> its pretty cool
<xanax`> is it normal that the orange horizontal line at the top of windows isn't centered ? (in the dark theme)
<_MMA_> xanax`: Yes. That's normal. Reason being centering moves the stripe *behind* the buttons and obscuring them.
<_MMA_> Im sure a better solution will be found.
<xanax`> ok
<Viper550> oh yeah, they ported the crystal kwin theme to KDE
<Viper550> 4
<cody-somerville> Hey art people.
<cody-somerville> Opinions? http://cody.zapto.org/xubuntu-new-website-mock3.1.png
<Viper550> cool, but wrong colors boy
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> well, the seperator below ubuntu needs a better render
<pwnguin> are those .jpg?
<pwnguin> cody-somerville: also, depending on the html and your audience, that content font might be too small
<pwnguin> and im not sure that lorem ipsum is representative of what will be there in the final
<pwnguin> cody-somerville: overall, im afraid to say it, it kinda looks like Vista
<cody-somerville> Like the Vista website?
<pwnguin> like the OS
<pwnguin> the background
<pwnguin> the glass effects
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-17
<Viper550> hello?
<pwnguin> hi
<Viper550> I'm helping out with the art for yet another non-Ubuntu distro
<Viper550> and yes, its a KDE based one
<pwnguin> well aren't you a rebel?
<Viper550> I frequently change distros.
<Viper550> I got Kubuntu KDE4 on a VM, and in my room, my Linux computer runs Ark Linux now (ran gOS previously)
<kwwii> moin
 * pwnguin is insane
<pwnguin> ive set my fonts all to ubuntu-title ;)
<darkmatter> ewww'
<pwnguin> its like comic sans with good handwriting ;)
<pwnguin> and terrible kerning
<darkmatter> it has kerning? :O
<pwnguin> not much
<pwnguin> it might be automatic?
<xanax`> hello
<Cimi> hi guys
<kwwii> hi Cimi
<Cimi> hi kwwii, I'm finishing my CV
<kwwii> Cimi: excellent, I am in london at the offices now
<Viper550> hey
<Viper550> hello?
 * _MMA_ waves
<Viper550> are there Kubuntu packages for any KDE4 styles/windecos?
<_MMA_> Other than ones that come *with* Kubuntu? Doubtful.
<Viper550> the new ones are hard to build, cmake qmake all this jazz
<psyke83> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-18
<kwwii> moin
<psyke83> hey
<Viper550> Are there kubuntu packages for Hardy of qtcurve for KDE4?
<_MMA_> Viper550: #kubuntu might be best to ask in.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-19
<pwnguin> is it okay to attach files to the ML?
<anon245> Hi. Despite all the criticisms, I loved the dark Intrepid theme, and use it on Hardy. Are there any previews for what the final artwork will be like? I've looked at the ones on the wiki, but has one been decided as a base to develop upon?
<pwnguin> anon245: the mailing list and wiki are the resources you should look at
<pwnguin> kwwii: i have a suggestion for the channel topic
<pwnguin> #ubuntu-artwork ART WORKS! Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork | Mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
 * DanaG uses Thunderbird for his mailing lists.
<anon245> Thanks for your help pwnguin, I'll have a look.
<pwnguin> DanaG what's that mean? (sorry about the /msg)
<DanaG> Thunderbird can view newsgroups in the tree view, which I like better than using e-mail subscription.
<pwnguin> DanaG: is there a diferrent URL we should use then?
<pwnguin> I just think the current topic is not at all helpful ;)
<DanaG> argh... these links from pidgin are opening in links2.
<pwnguin> hhehe
<DanaG> wtf... I have Firefox set as default browser.
<pwnguin> i was only born in 81; so please forgive me for not knowing much about newsgroups
<DanaG> http://gmane.org/about.php
<DanaG> I was born in 86, actually.
<pwnguin> i understand how they work, but from what I see, they're an anachronism
<DanaG> I haven't used usenet at all... gmane is just a thing that turns mailing lists like ubuntu-artwork into a newsgroup.  http://gmane.org/find.php
<pwnguin> they dont appear to index ubuntu-artwork
<DanaG> I think it's just ubuntu-art
<DanaG> aa
<DanaG> aah: gmane.linux.ubuntu.art
<DanaG> er, artwork.  after the '.'
<pwnguin> i see.
<pwnguin> well, then their stats thing is busted =(
<pwnguin> http://gmane.org/charts.php
<DanaG> wtf links2?
<DanaG> Somehow it took over /etc/alternatives/x-www-browser.
* kwwii changed the topic of #ubuntu-artwork to: ART WORKS! Wiki:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<kwwii> pwnguin: good idea :-)
 * kwwii just returned from London, a very long week indeed
<kwwii> about 40 some emails on the list to read - what fun!
<__mikem> Does anyone have a screenshot of the current default desktop for intrepid
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-20
<pwnguin> __mikem: for what purpose?
<__mikem> i want to see what I have to look forward to
<pwnguin> im not sure the current theme is going to be the representative
<__mikem> I've been on the edge of my seat since i heard they were replacing the theme
<pwnguin> as i understand it, a stand in was pushed out simply to generate discussion about dark themes
<pwnguin> a screenshot wouldn't do justice to the problem
<__mikem> I was hoping they would be using this one http://tombuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/gelatin.jpg
<pwnguin> was that anything more than a mockup?
<__mikem> I don't know i just found it on google image search
<pwnguin> it would be really handy if there was an ettiquite that mockups be labelled so in the image
<__mikem> I would just like to know, when I install download and install ubuntu in a few months, what can I expect to see when I start it up. All I know is right now, the current theme looks out dated and miles behind the standards for GUI that OSX and for god sakes even VISTA is setting
<pwnguin> i dont think it looks too bad. if it's terrible, it might be a bug. sometimes gnome-settings doesnt load correctly for me
<pwnguin> and it looks very gtk1 ish
<__mikem> It doesn't look terrible, but it is still very much behind the times
<pwnguin> and the times are gloss and gradients
<__mikem> exactly
<__mikem> http://www.breakitdownblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/ubuntu-hardy-gelatin-large.jpg <-- for god sakes, if you could make it look like say this, things would be great and it would be trivial to do so
<pwnguin> as best i can tell, the only significant change is a gradient to the gnome-panel
<__mikem> Some round edges for the menu highlights would be nice to
<pwnguin> it would help if you posted links tot he posts instead of the images directly
<__mikem> sorry
<__mikem> http://www.breakitdownblog.com/ubuntu-hardy-heron-804-theme-gelatin/
<pwnguin> it might be a good idea to see about getting a gradient feature into gnome-panel itself
<pwnguin> interestingly
<pwnguin> it's already in the wiki
<pwnguin> so I'm glad I asked instead of telling you about phoronix
<__mikem> whats phoronix?
<pwnguin> a news site that reports without interviewing anyone relevant
<pwnguin> even though we're availabl
<pwnguin> they published screenshots from the alphas
<pwnguin> __mikem: i'll do you better than screenshots
<__mikem> Do you have a beta CD?
<pwnguin> i have a laptop with a development install
<pwnguin> http://kims-area.com/?q=node/25
<__mikem> Good, I'll get backto you when I get plane tickets to fly down and look at your screen :(
<pwnguin> there's the developers latest version
<pwnguin> should work on yours
<pwnguin> in hardy
<__mikem> Not bad. I have to say the color scheme looks very relaxing
<pwnguin> i donno
<pwnguin> the orange as selection is somewhat aggressive
<__mikem> slightly but just turn down the gama and you should be good to go
<__mikem> let me get my virtual machine running
<pwnguin> do you not run ubuntu natively?
<__mikem> not on my mac I don't
<__mikem> I have it native on a machine but its in the other room
<pwnguin> i see
<pwnguin> thats cool. I just dont like getting comments from people with no skin in the game ;)
<__mikem> you are going to have to help me install this thing because i don't remember how
<pwnguin> its dead easy
<pwnguin> download the .tar.gz to your desktop
<pwnguin> system->pref->appearances
<__mikem> okay
<pwnguin> click the install button, pick out the tarball
<pwnguin> and it should now have a new option to pick, and have changed it to that
<__mikem> NOW THATS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT
<pwnguin> I do like the fact that it's color parameterized
<__mikem> yes theres only one problem that i see, and its easily fixed
<pwnguin> the blue?
<__mikem> well that, and that i still have to add the gradient back ground image to the panels
<pwnguin> or the orange in the window picker?
<__mikem> also the black menu highlights are a bit much
<pwnguin> ?
<pwnguin> im not running compiz
<__mikem> I'm not either
<pwnguin> oh, on the main menu
<__mikem> when you click on the gnome menu at the top of the screen, the selected menu turns black
<__mikem> it should turn orange
<pwnguin> my main complaint is that the orange window list selection is highly distracting
<pwnguin> i have a nice 21 inch desktop with high res
<pwnguin> up at the top is this bright orange box representing irssi and its annoying the hell out of the corner of my eye ;)
<DanaG> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.artwork
<pwnguin> i wonder why the stat query didnt work then
<DanaG> oh yeah, and the newsgroup link is nntp://  ...
<DanaG> If you want to use newsreader software.
<DanaG> s/I/i/
<pwnguin> well, if gmane's loom can thread the ML, why cant thunderbird?
<pwnguin> __mikem: if you're interested in that theme, i suggest you enroll http://kims-area.com/?q=blog/1/feed in your feed reader of choice
<DanaG> Actually, it can.
<DanaG> Click the column header with the tree-looking thingy.
<__mikem> pwnguin: I am currently adding a few touches to the theme
<pwnguin> __mikem: neat. tell him about it so he can merge it with his work!
<__mikem> pwnguin: quick question, where did the gnome theme manager install that theme
<pwnguin> phhshshh...
<pwnguin> ~/.something probably
<__mikem> I know, but theres a lot of . files
<DanaG> ~/.themes
<pwnguin> you act like i know this stuff. im just an unemployed programmer who isn't afraid to try ;)
<__mikem> pwnguin: I don't know much more (if anything) than you do
<pwnguin> then we can be ignorant together!
<__mikem> But I program professionally and i know what end users like to see
<pwnguin> well, i wont speak on behalf of other people
<__mikem> Usually EUs don't care if technical people speak for them
<pwnguin> an interesting exercise. replace "end users" with "women"
<__mikem> pwnguin: I appologise if I come off as arogant, that is not my intension
<__mikem> lol
<pwnguin> well, i dont mean to make you feel or look bad, but it does raise an interestig question: does anyone ever intend to be arrogant?
<__mikem> Do you know the HSL triplet of the orange color used in the theme?
<pwnguin> i can do you one better
<pwnguin> go to appearance
<pwnguin> select the theme and choose "customize"
<pwnguin> go over to colors
<pwnguin> click on whatever interests you, and bam, colorpicker
<pwnguin> i think we call it HSV
<__mikem> if only I knew how to do a saturation in gimp
<pwnguin> well, subscribe to the mailing list (or newsgroup)
<pwnguin> the developer posts on ther
<pwnguin> and ask / talk about it
<__mikem> pwnguin: are you going to be here all night, because i should be able to have this done in about an hour
<pwnguin> this is a screen session running irssi on a server
<__mikem> okay
<__mikem> then you should atleast be able to tell me who to send the tar.gz file to
<pwnguin> barring reboots, network outages (we have been hit by a tornado in the past month) or anything else
<pwnguin> i never leave
<pwnguin> if you have your own hosting, that might be the best place
<__mikem> pwnguin: I do but my web server has a bad power supply
<pwnguin> im not aware of any standard diff for themes
<pwnguin> it seems like the sort of thing that bzr should handle
<pwnguin> but let us say that everyone's afraid the average artist can't handle bzr
<pwnguin> if you open up the original tar.gz, gtk-2.0/gtkrc has some contact info embedded in a comment
<__mikem> oh okay
<pwnguin> the mailing list also appears to accept attachments
<__mikem> That should do it, let me just retar this thing and I'll look at where to send it
<pwnguin> see the topic ;
<pwnguin> ;)
<pwnguin> back to final fantasy tactics then
<__mikem> pwnguin: I subscribed to the mailing list, how do I post to it?
<pwnguin> it should tell you in the confirmation email?
<__mikem> i just see info on how to complete the registration and what to do if i want to unsubscribe
<__mikem> nothing about how to post to it
<__mikem> oh I just recieved a "welcome" email that tells me
<__mikem> pwnguin: okay, I just posted it, when you get a chance to view it on a computer that has X running, let me know what you think
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> i have a computer with X
<pwnguin> right now
<__mikem> okay
<__mikem> then by all means have a look. I included a screen shot in the tar.gz archive that I attached
<__mikem> pwnguin: did my post go through yet?
<pwnguin> yea
<__mikem> attachment and all?
<pwnguin> (sorry.... I uh...bio-break?)
<pwnguin> yea
<__mikem> beautiful, well extract it and have a look at the screen shot
<pwnguin> i did
<pwnguin> im using it right now
<__mikem> :)
<pwnguin> ok thats wierd
<__mikem> ?
<pwnguin> (did the old version do that?)
<__mikem> do what?
<pwnguin> when i click on applications
<pwnguin> the terminal icon has a dark orange highlight
<pwnguin> well, not dark. faint
<__mikem> pwnguin: is it by any chance a launcher on the gnome panel?
<pwnguin> yes
<__mikem> oh, thats always been like that
<__mikem> I have been complaining about that bug for ages
<pwnguin> ive never seen that on human
<pwnguin> are we sure its a bug with gnome panel and not the theme?
<__mikem> pwnguin: when you click on something in the gnome panel, from then on, every time you click on the menu in gnome panel, the last item you clicked will always highlight like that
<__mikem> it happens regardless of what theme you use
<pwnguin> hmm
<__mikem> the default human theme does it but it uses a dotted line square instead of a highlight
<pwnguin> also, the seperator in that theme is blank
<__mikem> Strange, I don't remember touching the separater
<pwnguin> might also be part of his theme
<pwnguin> finally, im not a fan of the icon theme
<pwnguin> ugly green / tan folders
<__mikem> pwnguin: you can change that
<__mikem> I left it be because i thought you wanted it that way
<pwnguin> i know, but we're talking about defaults here
<pwnguin> "you"
<__mikem> I thought "they" wanted it that way then
<pwnguin> well, yea, less changes are better for inclusion
<pwnguin> when he responds on list, I'll see about a launchpad page for the theme
<pwnguin> and a bzr branch
<__mikem> thanks :)
<pwnguin> it'll be easier to manage in version control i think
<__mikem> I'll sure feel honored if my changes make it into the final
<pwnguin> __mikem: how's the alert work?
<__mikem> the what?
<pwnguin> in the theme
<__mikem> No idea, i didn't change that
<pwnguin> some windows set an ALERT status
<pwnguin> im curious how the coloring affects that
<__mikem> pwnguin: the only tools i used were colorization and brightness and contrast settings
<__mikem> and some alpha blend
<pwnguin> ok
<pwnguin> then i guess they're just general complaints relevant to the theme, not your changes ;)
<__mikem> Its been a while since I contributed to a project, I forgot how satisfying it is
<xanax`> hello
<__mikem> hey pwnguin are you around?
<__mikem> well if not, is there anyone here who can look at some fixes i made to the current geliten theme?
<pwnguin> i am
<__mikem> oh okay
<pwnguin> just rebooted
<__mikem> I made one more correction to the theme
<__mikem> pwnguin: I just added my updates to the mailing list if you want to use it
<__mikem> are you still there?
<pwnguin> ye
<pwnguin> just checking my email
<__mikem> the problem I found the buttons in the task list at the bottom would turn blue if they were inactive and you hovered so I had to change that
<pwnguin> desaturated orange?
<pwnguin> (and blue text?)
<__mikem> hold on
<__mikem> your looking at the actual window, I am looking at the panel at the bottom of the screen where buttons for each window appear
<pwnguin> yes
<pwnguin> (mine is at the top, but i understand your meaning)
<pwnguin> unfortunately, I can't take that theme in long doses
<__mikem> pwnguin: if you could tell me what the problem is, I might be able to fix it
<pwnguin> its too bright
<pwnguin> too orange
<__mikem> so, we need to turn the gama down and the contrast up
<pwnguin> explain to me what you think gama is, so we can be on the same page
<__mikem> pwnguin: gamma is how intense the color is
<pwnguin> so saturation
<__mikem> and contrast is how accentuated it is
<__mikem> I took a web design course once and they did some cursory graphic design, and I still remember the jargon :)
<pwnguin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_correction
<__mikem> That refers to distortion due to defraction
<__mikem> its a different thing
<__mikem> refraction rather
<pwnguin> what?
<pwnguin> no
<__mikem> Oh sorry, I saw the pictures of the lady in the water and i thought of something else
<pwnguin> gamma correction, is about brightness, not color ;)
<__mikem> brightness yes
<__mikem> intensity
<__mikem> in the RGB color space intensity is the same as the brightness when it comes to your reds greens and blues
<__mikem> Maximum intensity of all colors will yeild white
<pwnguin> hsv this is represented by v
<__mikem> I know, I never learned HSV so I am kind of trying to translate concepts on the fly in my head :(
<pwnguin> think of hue as wavelength, saturation as how dominant the wavelength is in the mix, and value/lightness as the number of total photons
<__mikem> pwnguin: I am going to try dulling out the orange a bit, should be easier on the eyes
<pwnguin> im still not sold on color for the window list
<__mikem> I know its a bit too bright as well
<__mikem> in HSV which one controls intensity again?
<__mikem> pwnguin: wow, now that doesn't look good at all. Its too dulled out
<__mikem> Looks like I lack the skills necessary to fix it any further
<xanax`> the newhuman window decoration theme is simply awesome
<xanax`> congratulations to the artists
<pwnguin> i should update my theme
<pwnguin> err
<pwnguin> laptop
<__mikem> xanax`: screen shot?
<__mikem> xanax`: I was working on the geliton theme earlier
<xanax`> it's the chocolate theme..
<xanax`> hold on, uploading a screenshot
<__mikem> you sure are taking your time
<xanax`> http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9136/captureys2.png
<__mikem> wow, what a disappointment
<xanax`> sorry, I am having problems with program that doesn't want to compile
<xanax`> why ?
<__mikem> xanax`: it looks just as outdated and dull as the current ubuntu theme
<xanax`> which one do you have ?
<__mikem> Compared to OSX and even Vista for Gods Sake, this appearence is an embarasment
<__mikem> There are PLENTY of better themes that look beautiful, and can match if not surpas the beauty of OSX and vista, so why do you have to use this junk
<xanax`> I am longing to test this theme : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals
<xanax`> if it gets released
<__mikem> NOW THATS MORE LIKE IT!
<__mikem> That is what ubuntu needs
<xanax`> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Hardline
<__mikem> that one aint bad either
<__mikem> either of those would be acceptable and be competitive in todays world, but that chocolate theme is and I am sorry to be so blunt, a complete waste of effort
<__mikem> What I would like to know is WHY CAN'T THESE THEMES BE THE DEFAULT THEME
<__mikem> Why do they have to use chocolate, why do they have to knowingly pick an inferior concept
<__mikem> xanax`: do you understand what I mean?
<xanax`> yeah
<xanax`> I still like the chocolate theme because its unusual.. to have a dark theme as default
<__mikem> The fact is, OSX and vista are dwarfing most of the current linux distros in the UI department and its something that SHOULD be easy to fix
<__mikem> I don't WANT chocolate as the default
<xanax`> btw, the 2 mockups theme I pasted are just mockups I think..
<__mikem> I want a theme that can allow people to take linux seriously as a desktop OS
<xanax`> I DO hope they'll be release one day or the other..
<__mikem> Its enough hoping, does the person who is INCHARGE of the artwork lurk around at all, because its time I had a word with him
<xanax`> I don't think being aggressive will help..
<__mikem> I won't be
<__mikem> I'll be civil
<xanax`> ok then :-)
<__mikem> I really just want to make sure they don't blow their opertunity to give linux a kickstart
<__mikem> and either of the mockup themes you have posted would do just that
<__mikem> I am talking about marketability, and even a free piece of software cancapitalize on the basic principles of marketing
<__mikem> especially when that piece of software is as well writen as the linux kernel and the other apps that sit on top of it
<__mikem> xanax`: are you going to go get him or something?
<xanax`> I don't know any official ubuntu artist here..
<xanax`> I am just a ubuntu user
<__mikem> What about the person who is currently op'ed
<xanax`> he may not be behind his keyboard..
<__mikem> kwwii: are you around, I would like to voice some concerns
<__mikem> if thats alright with you ofcourse
<xanax`> have you posted on brainstorm.ubuntu.com about your "feelings" ?
<xanax`> there are some ideas about the default theme
<__mikem> xanax`: I would feel better if my corospondance occured within a realtime medium
<xanax`> ok
<xanax`> have you also found some good mockups or nice theme ideas you would like to share with me ?
<__mikem> yes
<__mikem> hold on
<__mikem> http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/02/04/new-theme-for-ubuntu-804-deferred/
<xanax`> simple and clear. i like it. (though I still prefer my "BasicIdeals" mockup :p)
<__mikem> Yes I do to
<xanax`> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/SharpChocolate
<xanax`> that's more "chocolate' than the newHuman theme
<__mikem> xanax`: thats a step in the right dirrection but it needs more transparency and gloss
<zerwas> no good contrast there :-(
<xanax`> yep, maybe the color of icon fonts is too dull
<xanax`> and I dislike the iconset shown on the "Pictures - File Browser" window
<zerwas> the actual intrepid theme is a good compromise between contrast and darkness
<zerwas> but in my opinion there is still too much grey in the colour of intrepids NewHuman
<__mikem> zerwas: does the actual intrepid theme have some gloss or atleast make any attempt to compete with OSX and Vista?
<zerwas> no.
<xanax`> __mikem : I think they (official artists) don't plan to "compete" with those OSs
<zerwas> __mikem, you can try it out by yourself if you are running Ubuntu 8.04 (hardy)
<xanax`> they maybe want to make a good theme for all users, easy to "use"
<__mikem> I am
<zerwas> i use #4A3A2D - looks much better in my opinion. and does not only look "old" like the actual NewHuman colour scheme
<__mikem> users want a theme that looks pretty, not a theme that looks like we are trapped in the world of several years ago
<__mikem> zerwas: does it look glossy?
<__mikem> here tell you what, how do I get the actual theme on my ubuntu machine?
<zerwas> __mikem, the colour? nope
<zerwas> __mikem, one second.
<__mikem> first problem, most users like gloss
<zerwas> add these two lines to your /etc/apt/sources.list
<zerwas> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kwwii/ubuntu hardy main
<zerwas> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/kwwii/ubuntu hardy main
<zerwas> Do you know how to add repositories to your installation?
<__mikem> i am using the software sources thing
<zerwas> sorry for highlighting you kwwii
<__mikem> okay I think they are added
<__mikem> zerwas: the lines are added
<__mikem> now what?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-13
<meoblast001> hi
<macvr> michote: you can remove your attachments from the submissions wiki
<macvr> for icons which have been replaced
<michote> macvr: ok
<macvr> oops! s/replaced/uploaded
<michote> macvr: I deleted all my xdg submissions and smiley left in the attachments, thx for removing thme from the wikipage
<macvr> michote: np... BTW do you know of any scripts which extract 128px *PNG* from the source svg?
<michote> macvr: no, but isn't it possible to change the Breathe-Python-skript to do this?
<macvr> i'v been trying to , but didnt get it right :(
<macvr> michote: are you doing any more smileys?
<michote> macvr: No, I didn't have much time last week ;) . Is there anything left to do?
<macvr> there are 3 left
<macvr> michote: worried , uncertain, laugh
<michote> macvr: laugh? what's the difference to smile/smile-big?
<macvr> michote: check this > /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/emotes/face-laugh
<macvr> michote: i guess  mouth  wider than surprise should do
<michote> macvr: for me It looks very similar to your smile-big, what about labeling this as laugh an creating something like the gnome-smile-big (similar to the devil-grin mouth)?
<macvr> michote: actually i didnt like the gnome big smile , hence i did it this way, the laugh can be done similar to devil-grin
<michote> macvr: BTW do you know any workaroud get a svg displayed correctly in gnome? monkey, angel, sad, etc looks distorted in nautilus and eog
<macvr> AFAIK there is no workaround, let me know if you find some way
<macvr> michote: laugh, just with the eyes of devil-grin and same mouth should do it
<michote> macvr: same mouth as smile-big?
<macvr> no... just the same as devil-grin, just change the color , remove the horns and straighten the teeth, you get laugh
<macvr> i mean , no vampire teeth
<michote> macvr: ok
<michote> macvr: like this? http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/laugh.png
<macvr> michote: yeah thats it... just make sure the colors of the mouth match the rest of the smileys
<michote> macvr: I took the outline-color from wink which is darker then surprise, should I use a gradient inside the mouth like surprise?
<macvr> michote: the outline from surprise would be better , be the thicker stroke too fro the 128px, just to minimize the pixelation , . but not sure about the gradient inside the mouth, you can just put up both the version with & without the gradient and we could choose
<macvr> may be the thicker stroke too for the 128px
<michote> macvr: I'd prefer the gradient http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/laugh2.png
<macvr> michote: looks good, but reduce the opacity of the stroke
<michote> macvr: the outine of the mouth?
<macvr> michote: yeah, reduce either the opacity or the size of the outline
<michote> macvr: than I'll use 1px stroke, because with less opacity the mouth would shine through for the half of the stroke :(
<macvr> michote: 1px should do it i guess
<michote> macvr: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/laugh2.png
<macvr> michote: looks good, :D   the shadow inside the mouth on the teeth can be reduced
<michote> macvr: shadow from above or on the sides?
<macvr> both
<michote> macvr: better? Its a gradient of 23 stops :P http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/laugh.png
<macvr> michote: yup.looks good.
<macvr> its just ths shadow from devil , didnt suit this smiley ;p
<macvr> the^
<michote> macvr: yup, do you want me to do the other 2 smileys as well?
<macvr> michote: i think it needs to be done sometime... so you can do it when you can
<michote> macvr: ok, I'll take a look this week
<macvr> :)
<JonDoe297> macvr: hi :)
<macvr> JonDoe297: where is jane? ;p
<JonDoe297> macvr: dunno :)
<macvr> JonDoe297: well i guess , if you are a JonDoe yourself , it would be hard to find Jane ;p
<SiDi> kwwii: you might have to remind the flickr contributors about the resolution of their photos :)
<SiDi> lots of 800x600 / 1024x768 submissions
<SiDi_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/28613801@N02/3716239785/in/pool-ubuntu-artwork
<SiDi_> WOW
<JonDoe297> I wish it had larger resolution :)
<SiDi_> im not sure but i think you can upload very high resolutions only if you have a pro account
<SiDi_> cause some photos are labeled 1600x1050 and are at 1024x768 too
<JonDoe297> :(
<kwwii> SiDi_: ouch
<kwwii> thanks for the info
<SiDi_> (what i said is a mere hypothesis though kwwii)
<SiDi_> you may want to contact the photographs and ask them about the resolutions :P
<SiDi_> im anyway astounded by the quality of some photos
<kwwii> well, the first pic is always the smallest version
<kwwii> so many do have larger sizes
<kwwii> but I will need to contact anyone with something less than 1600x1200 I guess
<kwwii> it seems that others have emailed for larger sizes and received them
<SiDi_> do you know if there is a size restriction depending on the type of flickr accounts ?
<SiDi_> Also some guy put the photos with a CC by sa NC license
<kwwii> yes, there is a file size limit per login with free accounts I think
<kwwii> time for bed, night all
<SiDi_> night kwwii
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-14
<SiDi> kwwii: that flickr group turns out to be an awesome idea :)
<mac_v> SiDi: link me pls :)
 * SiDi links mac_v 
<SiDi> http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork/ mac_v
 * mac_v 0.0
<mac_v> kwwii: the flicker avatar , is you or your son?
<ckontros> michote: Are there any other smilies left to be done? (after face-laugh)
<SiDi> face-sidi
 * SiDi hides
<ckontros> Uh huh...
<ckontros> :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-15
<kwwii> good morning
<kwwii> mac_v: the flickr avatar is myself at age 7 or so
<mac_v> 0.0
<SiDi> O.o
<kwwii> the flickr group is really amazing...some very nice photos there
<MadsRH> kwwii -> +1 I really love the softness and color in this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/40413350@N04/3717062240/sizes/l/in/pool-556923@N24/
 * SiDi loves http://www.flickr.com/photos/forteller/54518831/in/pool-ubuntu-artwork http://www.flickr.com/photos/28613801@N02/3716269755/in/pool-ubuntu-artwork and http://www.flickr.com/photos/hisgett/3266986973/in/pool-ubuntu-artwork
<kwwii> hehehe, everyone has their favorites ;)
<kwwii> jair0: !!!
<kwwii> dude
<jair0> kwwii, hey man !
<mat_t> hi everyone
<JonDoe297> mat_t: hello :)
<mat_t> short announcement - we need more ideas for the boot splash! Please keep them coming! :)
<mat_t> JonDoe297, hi
<JonDoe297> Mr.doob's boot seems perfect for me :)
<mat_t> yes it's good, but we want to try some different concepts, too
<SiDi> hiya mat_t
<mat_t> and - most importantly - we don't necessarily need a progress bar anymore
<mat_t> hey SiDi
<SiDi> I liked the idea of a sunrise
<mac_v> mat_t: have you seen MadsRH ubuntu promo? looks great
<mac_v> something like that might be tough to implement for boot?
<mat_t> SiDi: yes, I like the sunrise metaphor - as long as it's subtle and abstract
<mat_t> mac_v: not sure
<mat_t> mac_v: got a link?
<JonDoe297> http://anotherubuntu.blogspot.com/2009/07/random-artwork.html
<JonDoe297> this?
<mac_v> mat_t: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdxE55K-Wvw&feature=related
<mat_t> ah yes, I saw that
<mat_t> I think it's great!
<mac_v> MadsRH: any chances of seen something like that for boot?
<mac_v> seeing^
<mat_t> MadsRH: hi
<mat_t> mac_v: MadsRH: that would fit perfectly with our motto: "light Ubuntu inside your machine"
<mat_t> ;)
<mac_v> my thoughts too
<mat_t> when designing that it's worth remembering that it's something users will see many many times - hence abstracting is better than being too literal
<mat_t> by the way, does anyone run Karmic already?
<mat_t> I do on my other laptop and the boot is pretty fast already...
<mat_t> splash screen appears for literally few seconds
<mat_t> thorwil: hi
<mat_t> :)
<mat_t> thorwil: fancy having a go as well?
<kwwii> thorwil: btw, we're goign to discuss the countdown banner today, I'll be in touch
 * mat_t feels like he did enough preaching for today... He will shut up now, unless someone speaks first
<mac_v> mat_t: since the splash screen appears for just a few sec, i think the fire would be a nice touch
<SiDi> What about a running mouse so we can steal the animation without effort for Xubuntu ? ( knome <-) !!
<mac_v> SiDi: you could just add a mouse in front of the fire ;p
<knome> :P
<thorwil> mat_t: hi. no, too busy otherwise
<mat_t> thorwil: fair enough :)
<mat_t> mac_v: yes I'd like to try fire, too! We also have to consider a corner case when the boot takes very long for some reason
<SiDi> mat_t: make the pc physically burn ?
<thorwil> SiDi: that would be silly. but a rotating head, decaying to a skull could work!!
<mac_v> lol
<mat_t> SiDi: yeah, why not. That would be something else. :)
<mat_t> So I think the fire idea is interesting, but I think needs abstracting - let's not get too close to ubuntu satanic and likes :)
<SiDi> thorwil: for satanic edition ? :D
<mac_v> mat_t: just seems MadsRH is not interested in doing it ;p
<mac_v> a bit less width of the fire would be nice
<mat_t> mac_v: yes, I'm also thinking of somehow containing the fire. Like in a hole you can see it through
<knome> ...a hole?
<mac_v> knome: ^ naughty
<mac_v> ;p
<knome> oh really? :)
<MadsRH> mac_v -> Sorry, I was just away :-) No, I didn't plan to create a version for the boot experience, but perhaps I should look into it
<mac_v> MadsRH: now i was just kidding.... but i had asked about it in the mailing list...i just thought you felt it was difficult
<MadsRH> I'll post any progress to the wiki of course - but I'm not sure I will find the time.
 * mac_v looking forward to seeing awesome boot \o/
<MadsRH> Like I wrote in the post this is based on a template, so basiclly this isn't my work ;-) No credit to me. I'm just learning After Effects and it's simply awesome
<michote> mac_v: thoughts? http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/face-uncertain.png http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/face-worried.png
<mac_v> the uncertain looks good, but reduce the shine on the "?"
<mac_v> its almost white at the top
<mac_v> michote: ^
<mac_v> michote: maybe no shine would look good too
<michote> mac_v: ok
<thorwil> michote: consider to deform the right eye to make it all look more organic
<michote> mac_v: I wanted it to look like tired
<mac_v> michote: the tired is a bag,object which has shape, but "?" doesnt need to be , if you do the 3D "?"then it would need shine
<mac_v> but just without shine is better. , also try thorwil's suggestion
<mac_v> michote: worried could have some red, indicating > flushed
<michote> thorwil: do you maen just reduce height, or a different eye-style?
<thorwil> michote: well, a resemblance to what happens with a real eye if one tried to make such a mimic
<michote> mac_v: thorwil: better? http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/face-uncertain2.png http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/face-worried2.png
<mac_v> michote: red, i meant a hint of red throughout the face... of red is no good , try darkening the face
<mac_v> michote: and for the uncertain eye , i dont think that is what thorwil meant, the "?" looks good
<chaotic> njpatel: hey, Ivanka wanted me to get in contact - said you were missing some stuff for UNR :)
<zniavre> hello / bonjour
<ryanprior> bonjour zniavre
<zniavre> do you know this project of thumbnailer it looks really nice > http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6297/capture1g.png
<zniavre> http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=330803
<SiDi> ryanprior: you're frnech too ? :O
<ryanprior> SiDi: I'm living in QuÃ©bec and learning French
<SiDi> okies :)
<FLOZz> Hi _o/
<SiDi> ih
<michote> mac_v: Are you there? Is this red enough? more? less? http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/rect6282.png
<mac_v> michote:a bit too much
<mac_v> its now more like orange
<mac_v> michote: you could have used the same blush but extended the extent
<michote>  mac_v: ok. I also don't have any good Idea for the right eye of uncertain
<mac_v> michote: then leave the eyes same size
<michote> mac_v: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/worried.png or extend more?
<mac_v> michote: looks good , i remember the 24px didnt have the correct  pixel alignment of the eyebrows, didnt you start this from the surprise? but the surprise seems to be aligned better or is it my eyes?
<michote> mac_v: I copied them from surprise, maybe I displaced thme in 24px. I'll take a look ;)
<michote> mac_v: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/face-uncertain.png http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/face-worried.png Do you think they're ok now?
<mac_v> uncertain looks good
<mac_v> michote: worried, could you try extending the blush even more to the top? lets see how that looks?
<mac_v> michote: especially for the smaller sizes... we could see how that works
<michote> mac_v: better? http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/face-worried.png
<mac_v> michote: yup.a little better... submit it , we'll see what cory says
<michote> mac_v: ok
<mrdoob> hello hello o/
<SiDi> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-16
<kwwii> good morning all
<mat_t> hi everyone
<SiDi> hi
<psyke83> hey
<psyke83> kwwii: I found an issue with the gtk-button size change in the theme. I filed it as: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/400371
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 400371 in gnome-panel "Notification area of gnome-panel derives application icon size from theme's gtk-icon-sizes -> gtk-button definition incorrectly." [Undecided,New]
<psyke83> you may want to subscribe as well
<psyke83> it seems that the theme icon fallbacks aren't working correctly for some applications
<SiDi> 407 photos in flickr !
<SiDi> A few of them are really bad tho :P
<SiDi> kwwii: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bestofbenni/3016432034/in/pool-ubuntu-artwork should this be in the pool ? :/
<thorwil> sure, it's great. i'm just missing the compiz dodecahedron!!
<thorwil> this one really embodies the spirit of ubuntu: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29212301@N00/207589257/in/pool-ubuntu-artwork
<SiDi> Circle of humans : http://www.flickr.com/photos/arghmonkey/2284729781/in/pool-ubuntu-artwork thorwil :D
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> exceptional: http://www.flickr.com/photos/23890584@N08/2600640149/sizes/l/in/pool-556923@N24/  shame for the limited resolution
<SiDi> thorwil: apparently its because non-pro accounts cant upload bigger photos :P
<thorwil> crippr
<thorwil> evolution is so nice to me: Error while Storing folder 'Inbox', Error while Generating message list, Error while fetching mail
<thorwil> all at the same time
<Lithium_Rain>  Haha
<Lithium_Rain> at least it *works* for you
<Lithium_Rain> :P
<thorwil> reason for the first 2 is the system partition is full. just sucks that evolution can't just report that!
<SiDi> thorwil: not the app's job :D
<Lithium_Rain> Haha
<Lithium_Rain> they don't pay it enough to care :P
<thorwil> already freed more than 500 MB by deleting stuff in .thumbnails ...
<mac_v> 0.0
<Lithium_Rain> Cleaned out the temp folders, right?
<thorwil> Lithium_Rain: no. .thumbnails is in your home dir
<Lithium_Rain> No, I know,
<Lithium_Rain> I mean,
<Lithium_Rain> you've ALSO cleaned out tmp? :P
 * Lithium_Rain isn't completely thick :D
<thorwil> good night!
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-17
<mac_v> any one know where the pixmap for the vertical&horizontal separator is located?
 * SiDi hides
<kwwii> good morning
<thorwil_> morning!
<thorwil_> cleaned my room this morning. diconnected the mouse without noticing, so it didn't work after initial boot. plugged it in and had my system frozen :/
<thorwil_> hotplugging ps2 can work, but obviously it isn't safe :)
<SiDi> The revenge of the Mouse ~O>
<zniavre> hello / bonjour
<zniavre> i wanted to show you this project from a french guy >http://software.flogisoft.com/cover-thumbnailer/fr/
<zniavre> it's really well done
<knome> zniavre, i don't really like the shade on the covers
<knome> zniavre, iow, i don't see one of those when i physically look at my cd
<knome> zniavre, the idea is good though
<zniavre> knome,  the guy is working on a easily modifiable theming
<knome> yep.
<zniavre> devs are not designers ...
<knome> ;)
<zniavre> knome that's true it's better without
<knome> :)
<danrabbit> Anyone want to give me their opinion on something?
<thorwil> danrabbit: something can be awesome if you're in the mood for it!
<danrabbit> thorwill: lol?
<danrabbit> thorwil: http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/Screenshot.png
<thorwil> danrabbit: i guess it's about the icon. why the screenshot?
<danrabbit> I.. don't know...
<danrabbit> I just did a screenshot...
<danrabbit> lol
<thorwil> danrabbit: the light edge on the folder suggests the light comes from top left, bu the emboss effect on the home suggests light from straight above
<danrabbit> hmm... that's a good point
<FLOZz> Hi _o/
<FLOZz> zniavre, dÃ©cidÃ©ment t'es partout >__<
<ryanprior> bonjour FLOZz, ce canal est en anglais uniquement ;-)
<FLOZz> Oops :#
<FLOZz> sorry
<ryanprior> no problem
<ryanprior> FLOZz: si vous voulez discuter en franÃ§ais, nous avons #ubuntu-fr, #linux-quebec, et tout
<FLOZz> ryanprior, I know #ubuntu-fr ;)
<FLOZz> ryanprior, english is not a problem ^^
<ryanprior> I've been spending more time in French channels to try to improve my reading
<ryanprior> I'm new to French, having just moved to QuÃ©bec recently
<FLOZz> ryanprior, oh good
<FLOZz> your french is very good (maybe better than mine)
<FLOZz> XD
<ryanprior> lol, only laboriously
<ryanprior> I can't converse at all yet
<FLOZz> ^__^
 * SiDi yawns
<FLOZz> Bye _o/
 * knome puts nuts in SiDi's mouth
 * SiDi eats
 * knome offers a banana for SiDi 
 * SiDi scratches his head
<knome> lol, too complex
<knome> ain't gonna feed you
 * SiDi eats half the banana and throws the other half at knome 
 * SiDi shouts and mimes a monkey eating a banana, expectantly looking at knome
 * knome offers rest of the banana to kwwii 
<knome> meh, i'm bored.
 * SiDi jumps on ckontros 
 * SiDi searches headlouse in ckontros' hair
 * ckontros has no hair. (as of last Sunday)
<knome> lol
<knome> SiDi, fail
<ckontros> :P
<SiDi> (makes searching easier ~~)
<SiDi> (clever monkey here ~~)
<SiDi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/220775/ ckontros
 * ckontros is re-rendering the entire Breathe set in prep for the 0.50 release.
 * ckontros clicks.
<ckontros> Yeah. You guys are bored. :)
 * ckontros cranks up the Sepultura and makes a sandwich while the set renders.
<SiDi> ckontros, knome's bored. I'm trying to become a pygtk guru
<knome> :D
<knome> right.
<knome> i'm trying to become a lifestyle guru.
<SiDi> I'm on the first step : trying to understand why my code breaks
<ckontros> SiDi: The 1st step is realizing there is no code.
<ckontros> (yeah. I went there)
<SiDi> I start with existing code :D
<SiDi> it's broken, i'm trying to fix it
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-18
<FLOZz> _o/
<SiDi> \o_
<FLOZz> bye
<mac_v> !ff35
<ubottu> Firefox 3.5 Final is available for Jaunty by installing the package firefox-3.5 | FF3.5 is referred to as Shiretoko on your UI, see http://is.gd/1reB3 for an explanation | Hardy & Intrepid: http://is.gd/1jkNY
<savvas0> hi :) I started making up the SVG artwork that don't appear to be included for several 16x16 icons: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-icon-theme/+bug/149047 and https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~medigeek/+junk/human-scalable-icons - But before I go on, is there anyone that knows if the SVG of the icons exist in someone's hard drive and weren't uploaded? The list of missing svg icons is at comment #25
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 149047 in human-icon-theme "Various icons don't have 48x48 nor scalable version" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<FLOZz> hi \o_
<SiDi> hi Â¬oÂ¬
<mac_v> ckontros> ;p
<mac_v> ckontros> the system search icon looks too similar to the zoom icons, how about adding a paper behind it?
<SiDi> mac_v, https://launchpad.net/notify-historical like this one ? :D
<mac_v> yeah... something like that
<mac_v> SiDi> BTW , is the notify-history done? will it be in the Karmic universe ?
<SiDi> Nope
<SiDi> I need to patch n-o, but i'm working on exaile for now
<SiDi> i'll probably finish this in the very beginning of August
<mac_v> SiDi> i think you need to *inhale* first ;p
<SiDi> meh
<SiDi> That was the most epic pun i ever heard about Exaile.
<SiDi> In fact it was the only one.
<mac_v> ;p
<ckontros> michote: I'm adding you to our "AUTHORS" file for Breathe and I'd like to know what name you would like to use?
<SiDi> he wants to use SiDi
 * SiDi hides
<michote> ckontros: real name?
<ckontros> If you're comfortable with that.
<ckontros> Same question for mac_v. ^^^
<michote> ckontros: would be ok for me, what did the others?
<ckontros> michote: Everyone so far has real names.
<ckontros> (in the file)
<savvas> Does anyone know if someone has the SVG artwork of many Human 16x16 icons backed up somewhere deep in their 2006-ish hard drives? :P bug #149047
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 149047 in human-icon-theme "Various icons don't have 48x48 nor scalable version" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149047
<ckontros> savvas: For stuff like that its good to grab an old ISO image or the .deb from a old release and unpack it.
<ckontros> *IF* they even exist. (the 16px icons that is)
<savvas> eh? they're not in the repository
<savvas> 16x16 icons exist, their respective scalable svg versions don't
<ckontros> savvas: Ok. Then I'm unsure why anyone else would have them. :) Besides the firm (IconFactory I think) that made them originally.
<savvas> hmmm
<savvas> that's a wonderful tip!!
<ckontros> That kwwii shoulda mentioned in the bug. :P
<savvas> I haven't noticed it, I've sent him an email about some clarification regarding this matter through launchpad, I guess he's busy :)
<savvas> oh well, in the end we'll have my ugly version vs theirs :P
<michote> ckontros: you can add me with real name and my googlemail-address than
<mac_v> ckontros> i think we should also add SiDi to the credits ;p
<ckontros> michote: I can't find your real name anywhere. :)
<michote> ckontros: Micha Reischuck
<ckontros> michote: Don't use: micha (aT) reischucks.de?
<michote> ckontros: I did, I changed all my mailinglist/wiki stuff to reischuck.micha (aT) googlemail.com some days ago, but seems that I didn't sended to the list since I changed it ;)
<ckontros> michote: Gotcha
<michote> ckontros: ;P
<savvas> ckontros: iconfactory.com right?
<ckontros> savvas: Yes. But, best to talk to kwwii about this.
<savvas> ok
<ckontros> AFAIK even Canonical didn't get the sources to alot of things.
<savvas> ah crap
<ckontros> I actually redrew the SVG for the "computer" icon in Human.
<SiDi> mac_v, i didnt contribute to Breathe at all ;)
 * mac_v thinks SiDi did in spirit ;p
<savvas> you breathe don't you?
<savvas> hehe :)
<mac_v> savvas~ hehe..today SiDi has been getting a lot of puns
<savvas> damn, I always come second
 * SiDi commits suicide and pushes to his graveyard branch
 * ckontros tries desperately not to make a sexual joke.
<SiDi> Keep trying ckontros PLEASE !
<ckontros> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~breathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk
<mac_v> ckontros~ bzr pull will update this new rev? just asking since you mention something about merge
<mac_v> update my local to this rev^
<ckontros> mac_v: Correct
<mac_v> ok.
<ckontros> mac_v: Note that while CD'ed into your BZR dir, runnin': "bzr-buildpackage --native" will create a up-to-date .deb for you to install.
<ckontros> mac_v: You'll need a package called "bzr-builddeb" installed. (or something like that) As well as cdbs I think.
<mac_v> oh.. ok
 * mac_v will have to take a bazaar tour some day
<SiDi> ckontros, bzr buildpackage only works with branches containing a proper debian directory, right ?
<ckontros> SiDi: Correct.
 * SiDi wants tools that will take a tarball and make a deb package out of it without anything to do
<savvas> they're called binary debian packages :)
<savvas> checkinstall ?
<ckontros> savvas: bzr buildpackage is basically checkinstall IIRC.
<zniavre_> SiDi,  http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Make+DEB+Package?content=79785  ? (i never tried this script)
<savvas> ckontros: true :)
<savvas> I prefer creating a debian source package with debhelper 7 though
<savvas> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~surl/surl/trunk/files :P
<SiDi> zniavre_, according to the script's author its broken xD
<zniavre_> ooops sorry
<FLOZz> ho hi zniavre_ _o/
<savvas> SiDi: which program?
<SiDi> savvas, huh ?
<savvas> which program do you want to package? :P
<SiDi> savvas, many
<savvas> you can file bugs with needs-packaging tag in launchpad :P
<SiDi> hehe :)
<SiDi> I just ask our packaging gurus in Xubuntu
<SiDi> ;)
<savvas> there was a tool for packaging debs like checkinstall, but with gui
<savvas> I can't remember the name though
<savvas> well, laters!
<mac_v> hei ... doe anyone know where the gnome-pane separator pixmap is?
<mac_v> does^
<mac_v> it is the same as the nautilus separator
<FLOZz> bye _o/
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-19
<kwwii> w00t!
 * kwwii be online with my new netbook...karmic works!
<kwwii> but probably only on this hardware :p
<kwwii> night all
<FLOZz> ^^
<SiDi> nite kwwii
<FLOZz> bye _o/
<FLOZz> hi _o/
<mac_v> SiDi: hi...
<mac_v> SiDi: the wireless notifications only display the wireless full noticiaftions... is anyone working on it or is there a bug for it?
<SiDi> meh ? //
<mac_v> bug 387626
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387626 in hundredpapercuts "wireless notification icon is wrong signal strength" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387626
<SiDi> I dont know what you mean but i didnt read about such a bug
<mac_v> SiDi: that bug^
<SiDi> ffs, people are crazy with papercuts
<SiDi> couldnt he report it to notify-osd ? :P
<SiDi> mac_v: can you link it to notify-osdp lease ?
<mac_v> SiDi: i wanted to , but just checking if it already existed
<mac__v> SiDi: does the d-bus send the wrong signal or is it notify-osd?
<SiDi> i dont know
<SiDi> i suppose n-o is meant to communicate with n-m to get this info, maybe its not been doen yet
<SiDi> i dont remember such a bug in n-o anyway
<mac__v> ok...
 * SiDi slaps mac__v 
 * mac__v busy trying to kick himself to even notice ;p
<lianimator> anyone know how this wallpaper is done? http://www.flickr.com/photos/32110081@N06/3381040501/
<lianimator> looks pretty cool
<FLOZz> oh ! nice wallpaper =)
<lianimator> it's quite detailed :)
<mac_v> ckontros: for Bug #364873 we could use the 50%opaque greyscale version of rhythmbox icon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 364873 in breathe-icon-set "Rhythmbox gnome-panel icon not consistent when paused" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/364873
<ckontros> mac_v: Things will stay as they are until Sebastien decides to make a icon. For now, my last comment in the bug stands. Using to the "pause" icon now is a better representation of the players state.
<mac_v> ok
<ckontros> Sebastien wants to make /something/ just has other things going on.
<mac_v> anyone here familiar with the new wave theme?
<kwwii> hey guys and girls, my email is down for the moment, so I am missing everything
 * SiDi sends a critical email to kwwii in order to let him know about some wonderful and mysterious information
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-19
<chaotic> http://74.50.61.42:3005/session/new
<chaotic> oops
<doctormo> chaotic: Interesting website
<vish> doctormo: was quite a slip up indeed ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-20
<kwwii> thorwil: ich bin krankgeschrieben bist nÃ¤chste woche, daher folge ich chat nicht regelmÃ¤ssig :-(
<thorwil> kwwii: nah dann gute besserung und mach die kiste besser aus! ;)
<kwwii> thorwil: danke, mache ich immer wieder :-)
<czajkowski> Aloha :)
<thorwil> Namaste
<cjohnston> kwwii: ping
<darkmatter> np: Vivaldi - Concerto op. 3 no. 5
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-22
<czajkowski> iainfarrell: ping
<iainfarrell> czajkowski: hello
<czajkowski> iainfarrell: mind if I pm you for a moment
<iainfarrell> not at all czajkowski
<darkmatter> http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/7496/screenshotrfv.png *cries*
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-24
<darkmatter> wooo! nailed the base environment metaphor and workflow! *dances*
<thorwil> darkmatter: the base environment metaphor doesn't need to be able to move?
<darkmatter> thorwil: haha. that's not what I mean you goof :p
<thorwil> darkmatter: so what is your base environment metaphor?
<darkmatter> thorwil: well, same as it was years ago (activities), the important part is just _how_ it works (as far as how the "desktop" or - whatever name you wanna give it - interaction works). it's also  (basically) document-centric (I use document loosely. basically the tools aren't important, it's the tasks and the stuff)
<darkmatter> thorwil: at the desktop level, an activity is analogous to a workspace. one by default, sorta generic. the main components are the shelf (I nicknamed it pandora for organizational purposes), a "run command" that is sorta a hybrid of of ubiquity(and its predecessor enzo) and do/quicksilver/whatever, and of course the rest of the screen (which is used to host replicants like pandora does (replicants would basically seem to most like wid
<thorwil> most like wi ...?
<darkmatter> like widget or such, but they're not, and they're more deeply integrated into the environment)
<thorwil> ever since i used rhino 3d, i have been think of an ever-present commandline on the screen
<thorwil> there's no strict workspace/activities relation the way i use what gnome offers now.
<darkmatter> thorwil: that's kinda like how I envision the run thing. it can connect to anything (even to run map commands from the net and send directions to someones cell or whatever) it's used as a command line, search filter (for switching activities/documents/whatever), can be used in window management, yada yada. I want it to be more "human" in general (thus the enzo/ubiqity comparison)
<thorwil> darkmatter: sure. i think the tricky part is handling the context the commands will be executed with
<darkmatter> thorwil: mines not strict as such, but it can be (it's a matter of how the shelf functions in correlation to the activities). basically in each activity/space the shelf has it's own config (through pinning and whatnot) so switching changes the objects on the shelf to reflect the current activity (of course that's the "multispace poweruser!!111!!oneONEelEVeNN!" stuff that most wouldn't care about. generally people are happy with one sp
<darkmatter> thorwil: yup. it'll take a lot of work (if it sees the light of day) to get the context right. some would be related to the view (like in"expo" mode it would find an item, switch to the space it's in and bring it to the foreground)
<darkmatter> thorwil: most my mockups are on paper, but I can type out the how and why later (may take a day or so :P) and pastebin it or something. theres a _lot_ of stuff that would take hours to explain over irc
<thorwil> darkmatter: better document it once and proper
<darkmatter> but in general, aside from being powerful, it's _simple_ (overall). the actuall user interaction and interface design (including app-level) is being designed to be "this is so easy a retarded monkey could use it" :D
<darkmatter> and even though it's "different" it conforms to a certain degree to conventional tactics (as in there's no drastic "OMG! WTF!" reaction from users. even in early planning I wanted drop in replacement, just use friendliness)
 * thorwil goes to cut a hedge
<darkmatter> so the guiding principle is "conceptual simplicity, structural complexity"
<nysosym> hi there
<coz_> hey guys
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-25
<ssoxygen> I am developing an open source (GPL v3) project to apply KDE's oxygen icons to Windows. I want to know whether I am permitted to incorporate Ubuntu's human icon set. If I am permitted, then must I state that the Human icon set is under a different license?
<thorwil> ssoxygen: ooh, you have to follow and thus state the license of each single icon set
<ssoxygen> Ok. But assuming I do this, I am allowed to incorporate the Human icon set into my program, although it is licensed under the GNU GPL version 3, and the icons are licensed under Creative Commons Legal Code Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5. (Please note that I have to use ImageMagick or so to convert the icons to Windows .ico files)
<ssoxygen> Please confirm as to whether this usage is ok
<thorwil> ssoxygen: i would assume it's all fine, as long as the application and icons remain separate entities. i'm not a lawyer. but also note that nobody will sue you for this ;)
<ssoxygen> The issue is that the program is written in a scripting language called NSIS that was made to create installers, and thus all the icons are embedded into the same monolithic executable that houses the code. Thus I'm not sure whether the code and the icons can be considered remaining separate or not.
<ssoxygen> I can probably modify the program to download the icon set just before applying the icon theme
<ssoxygen> Will that be fine?
<ssoxygen> The program will have to download a modified icon set however
<ssoxygen> The icons will have to be converted to Windows icons
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-07-19
<WaltherFI> So, I heard that the background competition is up and running
<coz_> ah there you go
<coz_> WaltherFI,  I believe it is yes
<WaltherFI> I've got a nice photo in my macro set that i've been editing for a dozen of times to different degrees and ended up with high-contrast black and white
<WaltherFI> but what should the export resolution be?
<coz_> WaltherFI,  well you could make it in the standard resolution formats
<coz_> let me find the links  although the contest link is in the topic
<WaltherFI> someone said that it should be 2560*1600, instead of for example 1920*1080
<WaltherFI> which is, 8:5 against 16:9
<WaltherFI> quite much limits how i should crop the photo
<coz_> WaltherFI,   well if you upload the image to flickr for ubuntu   , and if it is picked,, the required resolutions will be givine to you
<coz_> let me see if I have the flickr link for that in the mailing lists  hold on
<WaltherFI> That would have been my second question - where to post the image. Thank you very much
<coz_> WaltherFI,  you can read through here while i search   http://design.canonical.com/2011/07/get-excited-and-make-things-wallpaper-edition/
<WaltherFI> i've been an amateur photographer for around six years, as long as i've been a linuxist too, thought that maybe I could contribute in this way as i'm not that good in programming
<coz_> WaltherFI,   here you go     http://www.flickr.com/groups/oneiric-wallpaper-submissions/
<WaltherFI> Thank you very much.
<coz_> no problem
<coz_> WaltherFI,  not sure if flickr  accepts large resolution on free account,, however  , I have not seen and issues in the past with my account
<WaltherFI> so, it is compulsory to have a flickr account then?
<WaltherFI> to even be able to submit
<coz_> WaltherFI,   well I think it would help,, it's free   but check out there to see if it is requireing an existing account
<WaltherFI> There we go.
<WaltherFI> http://www.flickr.com/groups/1731759@N21/?added=1
<coz_> looking
<coz_> WaltherFI,  what name is it under?
<WaltherFI> my own nick, it should be the first image
<WaltherFI> the chessboard high-contrast BW with bokeh
<coz_> first image is howy the photographer
<WaltherFI> strange, for me, it is the second photo
<WaltherFI> http://www.flickr.com/photos/65391991@N02/5953695589/in/pool-oneiric-wallpaper-submissions
<WaltherFI> that one anyway
<WaltherFI> it's about a year old photo i've edited again and again
<coz_> ah nice ;)
<WaltherFI> never happy enough with it
<WaltherFI> imho it has a nice story behind
<coz_> I like the chess set :)
<WaltherFI> silver and brass set, with bone/wood board
<coz_> nice:)
<WaltherFI> thanks
<palhmbs> hi...
<palhmbs> I'm having problems with text over graphics & researching the problem is proving difficult.
<palhmbs> currently this site imo looks pretty good - http://3sixtynz.com/ -- but the client doesn't like my paintbrush effect to make the text stand out,  so I've gotta give them some options to make it more effective....
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-07-21
<majornikku> hi
<renaldocreative> Hello everyone my name is Renaldo and I'm a web developer and graphic designer. I want to help out with the graphics in Ubuntu.
<Islington> thorwil, vish opinions? http://wstaw.org/m/2011/07/21/plasma-desktopax2329.jpg
<vish> Islington: the concept is nice, try going with BG color either cheerful/sober.. right now, it seems neither and pale
<Islington> hmm k
<Islington> vish: I agree it did look a bit too pale: http://wstaw.org/m/2011/07/21/plasma-desktopCg2329.jpg
<vish> yup, better
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-07-22
<Islington> http://wstaw.org/m/2011/07/22/plasma-desktopqI3037.jpg iainfarrell thorwil opinions?
<iainfarrell> Islington: nice idea for a wallpaper
<iainfarrell> I have to say I rather like it :)
<coz_> nice simple,, minimal :)
<Islington> yeah I agreed with vish yesterday that it looked a bit washed out, so this was my fix
<coz_> Islington,  I would also try different gradients in the background,,
<coz_> color variations
<Islington> coz_: its actually a two gradients on top of each other( only way to minimize banding)
<Islington> coz_: will try it
<coz_> Islington,  yes banding can be an issue and also yes multiple gradients can help to eliminate that for sure :)
<thorwil> Islington: those map-like lines don't do much for me. consider to use less and make them look like the course of the plain, closer anfd farther away from the viewer, to add depth
<thorwil> or make them more like a landscape
<thorwil> gotta run
<vish> hmm, i thought those were clouds.. :D
<Islington> they are thorwil must have been in a rush
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-07-23
<renaldocreative> Hello everyone
<coz_>  have to break for a bit , be back later
<codepal> can anyone tell me which ubuntu system fonts, if disabled, will break my system?
<coz_> codepal,  mm
<coz_> codepal,  havent looked into that,, well hold on
<coz_> Ubuntu fonts,,sansm,,  monospace are pretty much default right now
<coz_> codepal,  if you right click the desktop   change desktop background and click the fonts tab
<coz_> codepal,  there is an application name   font-manager    this will list all fonts on the system and allow temporary disabling of fonts
<coz_> they can also be catagorized into sets/groups  and entire sets can be disabled
<codepal> coz_, just installed a font-manager from google code.
<codepal> I think it's slightly better, hopefully, than the built-in one.
<coz_> codepal,  welll is it named   "font-manager"
<codepal> I'm using 10.04, with it. - yup!
<coz_> codepal,  ok then yes it is probably the best font manager i have used on linux
<coz_> codepal,  with that ,, as I said, you can disable fonts on the fly
<codepal> I've tried fontmatrix...
<coz_> yuck
<codepal> unfortunately development isn't very up-to-date on that project...
<coz_> right
<coz_> font-manager is the best
<codepal> yeah, I managed to screw my Opera fontcache somehow with it.
<codepal> and Firefox.
<coz_> my opinion ,, howeve because of its options I find it very useful
<codepal> right, any chance you've got a couple of font collections to share?
<coz_> codepal,  I have a small set of fonts I always install hold on
<codepal> I'm just starting to categorise my system installed fonts, then I'll drop my own in.
<coz_> codepal,    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/myfonts.tar.gz
<codepal> coz_, very kind of you, thanks!
<coz_> let me now when you download that so I can delee it
<coz_> delete
<codepal> downed - thanks!
<coz_> ok
<coz_> codepal,  once you put them into the directory you want ,, generally /usr/share/fonts/truetype   , do you have the command to regenerate the font cache?
<codepal> yup
<coz_> cool
<codepal> apparently I can also do it via font-manager... awesome!
<codepal> "Reset cache and reload application" - bottom right corner.
<coz_> yep :)
<coz_> you can also just double click a font and it will have an "Install" button there
<codepal> nice...
<codepal> I've got the latest font-manager, which are you using?
<coz_> let me check
<coz_> 0.5.7
<codepal> cool, we're on the same page then.
<coz_> codepal,  I doubt there is a better manager  I have tried them all,, and since I love fonts I had to find one that did just about everything I need and this one does
<coz_> especially the ability to disable fonts on the fly
<codepal> coz_, just outta interest, what kind of design / projects are you involved with?
<codepal> yeah, that's neato
<coz_> codepal,  compiz   cairo dock
<codepal> predominately coding / theming?
<codepal> or both?
<coz_> codepal, right now only  graphics
<coz_> codepal,  I do the ccsm icons,,,compiz textures,, splash screen, and 3d animated cube models,, on cairo dock mainly themes
<codepal> cool coz_ !!
<codepal> I'm trying to tidy up some ugly slideshows I did for a client.
<coz_> codepal, excellent
<codepal> I've been told they're currently late 90's style....
<coz_> :)
<codepal> I'm probably a bit rusty
<codepal> I'm jumping back into the game, was trained at a newspaper & commercial print business.
<codepal> 1 old Mac with Photoshop and QuarkXpress on it.
<codepal> and then IBM's with Photoshop & Quark.
<coz_> codepal,  cool,, photoshop is almost always required:)
<coz_> I havent used quark express more than once that I can recall
<codepal> yeh? - I was hoping gimp would replace it on my box...
<coz_> codepal,  well sort of yes and no likely
<codepal> OS don't let me down...
<coz_> codepal,  most of my graphics work is done in inkscape  a vector application
<codepal> :D
<coz_> :)
<codepal> nice, latest?
<coz_> other than the 3d animations  mostly inkscape  ,, well the latest in ubuntu repositories ,, I got tired of compiling the most recent :)
<coz_> takes way too long ,, about an hour
<codepal> right, fair enough.
<coz_> inkscape  0.48 r9760
<coz_> that was put out in march 22 of this year
<coz_> so not the actual development version
<coz_> I believe the current is 0.48.1
<codepal> close enough
<codepal> I was gonna try compiling GIMP 2.8 on ubuntu 10.04....
<coz_> codepal,  mm not sure if it will,, I didnt realize 2,8 was available yet
<coz_> 2.8 rather
<coz_> codepal,  if so it should have the single window mode which is very cool
<codepal> dependencies might be a little difficult, libbabl is the problem.
<coz_> yeah
<codepal> I have 2.7 installed, and it has the single window mode..
<coz_> codepal,  if on ubuntu there may be a ppa at some oint
<coz_> codepal,  yes it does  but not premanent default
<codepal> unfortunately there is no way to set single as default
<coz_> 2.8 is suppose to be able to have single window mode as a default
<codepal> yup
<coz_> which is what I am waiting for
<coz_> but as I said ,, I generally always use inkscape
<codepal> which ver of ubuntu is your default?
<coz_> 11.04
<codepal> ah, right
<codepal> I downgraded for my wacom.
<codepal> since it's serial
<codepal> I was using 11.04
<coz_> oh ok because i have wacom here
<codepal> nice - use it much?
<codepal> I've only just got one, it's old A3 - intous2
<coz_> codepal,  I do for fine work, but in inscape I use the mouse
<coz_> codepal,  wacom is good regardless of age :)
<codepal> yeah, that's what I reckon.
<codepal> I love it.
<codepal> unfortunately it's not USB.
<coz_> codepal,  yeah that I understand
<coz_> I wonder if it can be converted
<codepal> I'm hoping as the wacom driver matures, and more people complain about the dropped support....
<codepal> that we'll get that serial support back.
<coz_> hopefully
<codepal> I'll learn my lesson, stick to LTS, and watch developments
<coz_> codepal,  yeah lts is generally the best way to go...unless you enjoy experimenting with some new things
<codepal> I love experimenting
<codepal> it's the best way to learn new things.
<codepal> I'm a little bit of coder myself, just learning python @ openhatch.org
<codepal> done a bit of compiling / patching / search for dependencies, so it doesn't scare me..
<codepal> coz_, nice talking to ya, and thanks for the fonts!
<coz_> ok
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-07-16
<TheAlliedFleet> Does anyone have any tips for GIMP and Inkscape?
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-07-20
<nathanid95> Evening all, is this the place for interface design discussion as well?
#ubuntu-artwork 2014-07-19
<laspahr> hey.. can you tell me where themes are for ubuntu 14.04 w/ unity launcher?
<laspahr> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Yosemite+Shell?content=166200 I downloaded this one but it requires gnome..
<laspahr> hello..
<laspahr> ?
