#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-24
<artnay> ddunne: great, you posted it on the list
<ddunne> indeed i did, we'll see what we can come up with
<ddunne> So, any other suggestions for what we could possibly drum up in the way of projects that we need to do?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-25
<artnay> ddunne: awake?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-26
<ddunne> so, anyone on?
* nicholaspaul is doing something less important.
* nicholas is back and there's going to be more of the same.
<derek[] > anybody around?
<ddunne> yep, you still around?
<derek[] > yeh
<derek[] > sup?
<derek[] > wb ogra
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-27
<klepas> g'day
<klepas> anyone on?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:klepas] : Wrap up for Breezy and get a coherent development framework ready early in the Dapper
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:klepas] : Wrap up for Breezy and get a coherent development framework ready early in the Dapper
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:klepas] : Wrap up for Breezy and get a coherent development framework reader early in the Dapper cycle. A meeting on this and various other issues is due to occur soon, so stick around. :)
<klepas> there we are :)
<derek[] > :)
<derek[] > soon? when?
<klepas> My sense of time is crap
<klepas> And I don't know what 12 UTC is in my time
<klepas> (GMT +10)
<klepas> You wouldn't happen to know, would you? :-P
<derek[] > :)
<derek[] > i'm not in a mood to calculate that
<derek[] > i'm looking for some work, as i need some funds
<klepas> can't help you there
<klepas> what sort of occupation are you after? tech no doubt?
<klepas> hi kamstrup 
<derek[] > hey
<derek[] > graphic-design
<klepas> very cool
<klepas> derek[] : have you got a personal page or three?
<klepas> :)
<klepas> any activity?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-28
<klepas> 'ello
<lllmanulll> klepas, Hey, there, I think you missed one of my wallpapers (the "Venezzia" (Venice) one) :)
<lllmanulll> Not that it is a great masterpiece, but I thought I'd tell you :)
<klepas> Eh?
<klepas> Sorry, confused.
<klepas> Of, you mean on AUC?
<lllmanulll> klepas, Well, there are already two of them :
<lllmanulll> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/63
<lllmanulll> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/61
<lllmanulll> But there's a third one (Venice), which seems hasn't been uploaded
<klepas> I'll take a look at it tomorrow
<klepas> a lot of school work in the moment
<klepas> :)
<lllmanulll> No problem at all, thanks :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-30
<voidz0r> hi
<voidz0r> please have a look at this: http://img492.imageshack.us/img492/6239/spreadubuntu24tu.png
<voidz0r> does it look ok?
<voidz0r> i have the svg (but imageshack doesnt want svg)
<klepas> hi voidz0r 
<voidz0r> hi
<voidz0r> sorry for the delay, had to change channels and it went wrong
<voidz0r> klopt het dat naar schijf schrijven (met een iso file) zeurt om een lege cd die er al in zit?
<klepas> Pardon voidz0r ?
<voidz0r> um
<voidz0r> oops
<voidz0r> srry
<klepas> No worries
<klepas> Sorry about my constant delays in replying
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-23
<lapo> yo
<dtamas> The edgy artwork is finished or it will be updated soon?
<troy_s> wholly full house
<troy_s> greetings everyone
<sittisal> hi troy_s
<n8k99> hi troy_s
<sittisal> i think that this is a chatroom were everyone of us hope a new good ubuntu's look
<sittisal> but i think that we sohould wait for edgy+1
<sittisal> :-P
<n8k99> n8k99 has anyone constructed an artwork roadmap for feisty,yet?
<sittisal> anyway... also fedora core 6 delayed echo deploymento to fedora core 7
<sittisal> i think that echo icon theme is the most beautiful and professional icon theme for linux
<sittisal> based on tango... looks more attractive than tango
<sittisal> damn
<sittisal> fucking current artwork
<sittisal> ubuntu should be different from tiger or windows
<sittisal> the new wallpaper is like tiger's one
<sittisal> only brown
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> artwork is not in our domain
<troy_s> i'm afraid
<troy_s> sabdfl has hired the fellow who designed this stunning site:  http://spacejunkdesigns.com
<troy_s> to do the work for fiesty
<troy_s> he is also the fellow who designed the dapper look
<troy_s> n8k99 there was a roadmap in place for edgy, it was trumped by sabdfl.
<troy_s> sittisal and I wouldn't be holding my breath for that 'good new ubuntu look' in edgy+1
<troy_s> brb... dapper booting...
<n8k99> troy_s: i realize that - I was wondering if there had been work towards planning feisty
<n8k99> troy_s: with the hope of pleasing sabfl in plenty of time to make it in
<sittisal> visual appearence is a must for desktop oriented os
<n8k99> oh i see
<n8k99> so no community efforts towards feisty?
<sittisal> what about accepting proposal?
<sittisal> too resctrictive
<troy_s> not a chance
<troy_s> the default work will all be spackjunkdesign
<troy_s> to the best of my knowledge
<troy_s> i believe sab intends to open the community up to submissions for 'other' areas
<troy_s> such as cd work
<troy_s> etc
<n8k99> wow! that website isn't very stunning as it doesn't even load
<troy_s> in the same vein as the spacejunkdesign
<sittisal> great
<troy_s> n8k99 ;)
<sittisal> i mean this
<troy_s> you need the new flash
<troy_s> let me check the link n8k99
<n8k99> won't happen as adobe does not acknowledge that people use linux on ppc
<troy_s> well... and it is closed source
<troy_s> so i suggest boycotting it all together
<troy_s> it is far too limited in scope for consideration in a global web world.
<troy_s> so basically, the artwork team will need to follow the stylings of whatever is set for feisty
<troy_s> good on one side, bad on another.
<n8k99> yeah - i can boycott it aall i want but my friends all youtube
<troy_s> n8k99 well utube is now google
<troy_s> so wait for some changes
<troy_s> and there has been a lot of work in the open source community surrounding the open flash implementation
<troy_s> for playing flash movies etc.
<n8k99> yeah i'm not particularly concerned about that stuff
<troy_s> personally, i would suggest you send well written emails to the people who provide and support such limited software.
<troy_s> for example, the bbc was using realplayer codec to stream their global audio
<troy_s> most of it is probably based in ignorance of options.
<troy_s> and they generally aren't aware of the implications until people send them mail.
<n8k99> i am disappointed about no community efforts for feisty
<troy_s> n8k99 the community effort will still be there
<troy_s> just not in the default look  / feel.
<troy_s> until sabdfl lightens his grip on aesthetics, which isn't likely to happen as i doubt his mailbox is filling up with complaints, etc.
<n8k99> i realize that - kinda hard to get full thoughts out with 1 hand (baby in lap)
<n8k99> *_^
<troy_s> aw congrats!
<troy_s> boy girl?
<n8k99> thanks, she is 18 mos
<troy_s> aw sweetie
<n8k99> i stay at home wit her
<troy_s> although that is borderline 'kid' mode now :)
<n8k99> yeah trully
<troy_s> i guess i should probably calculate my age in months
<troy_s> it might make for some interesting conversations
<n8k99> check the pics if you like http://eckenrodehouse.net
<lapo> design by community won't work
<troy_s> i am 433 months old.
<troy_s> lapo i disagree
<troy_s> fundamentally
<lapo> mark is right imho
<troy_s> make no mistake, i think that the fine arts community has plenty to learn regarding open design / free design
<n8k99> troy_s born in june?
<troy_s> oct
<n8k99> ah, may here
<troy_s> their little heads are so squishy at that age :)
<n8k99> so 438 months
<troy_s> lapo:  realistically,
<troy_s> lapo:  one cannot argue that multiple minds always will design better products
<lapo> troy_s: you should mix other people atrwork well, but you need a finisher who make the whole package consistent
<troy_s> lapo:  i disagree... the consistency level is largely a byproduct of skill
<troy_s> lapo:  and in the short term, i would agree that a final 'polisher' could work to override the skills ability to bring all of the work up to a consistent level.
<troy_s> lapo:  but as people get a feel for free design, i think their ability to fit in will increase.
<troy_s> lapo:  just like the work on firefox -- you don't just start renegade coding... you look at the libs, you look at the code base, etc.
<lapo> troy_s: is a loooong process to get a common style out of a group of people
<troy_s> lapo:  that is why all products that have effective design start with a design bible
<troy_s> it clearly outlines a full palette with goals and techniques, line work discussions, etc.
<troy_s> makes it far easier to _start_ the race if everyone is on the same course.
<lapo> we're barelly there with tango, because it's some time we work together (and we are few people)
<troy_s> unfortunately, most people don't treat the fine arts as a scientific process, which is truly is.
<troy_s> lapo:  possibly started out too loose
<troy_s> lapo:  for example, before you shoot a single frame of film for a television series, you spend a good while designing the bible
<troy_s> which can be a massive tome
<troy_s> same thing with something like a video game
<troy_s> you have a design document
<troy_s> you _do not_ just start 'desgining'
<lapo> that's right the directions mark gave you were to way too vague
<troy_s> you can do that during your brainstorm.
<troy_s> lapo:  yep
<troy_s> i _tried_ to milk his aesthetic out, but he is far too resistant
<troy_s> msikma!  good to see you friend.
<troy_s> the reality is that community based free design _cannot_ operate functionally until it is attacked in the same professional manner as all other projects.
<troy_s> for example,
<troy_s> look at vista's guidelines:
<lapo> troy_s: mark directing an artwork team is like lapo doing software architecture work :-)
<msikma> Hi troy_s
<troy_s> lapo:  100% agreement from me
<n8k99> so, my question is: why do we not have an actual construction of a design bible and follow a true production roadmap?
<msikma> How's things?
<lapo> yo msikma
<troy_s> n8k99 because there is NO look for ubuntu
<troy_s> design is visual literacy
<troy_s> meaning it should COMMUNICATE
<troy_s> and ubuntu's visuals communicate NOTHING
<n8k99> why not?
<troy_s> medium grey
<msikma> troy_s: nice to see things I agree with being said right as I join the channel
<lapo> very right
<troy_s> a) no motifs
<troy_s> b) no palette structure (although on a smaller battlefield i think we won this in edgy)
<msikma> my computer is incredibly slow right now since I have 136 KB free space, urgh. brb.
<troy_s> albeit monochrome hell.
<troy_s> c) no keywords
<troy_s> c -- for example (Human, Community, etc)
<lapo> so true
<troy_s> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/?url=/library/en-us/UxGuide/UXGuide/Home.asp
<lapo> no team work
<lapo> I'd add
<troy_s> i have read probably 100 design and art books since i graduated from art school
<troy_s> and ubuntu defies _every_ single element
<troy_s> well the team work needs to be worked at
<troy_s> we are a fresh team
<troy_s> and we all need to learn
<troy_s> everyone puts their hands up in the air and says 'it will never work'
<n8k99> right - what i am asking is why do these things which we do not have, do not get implimentedunless sabfl does not want them?
<troy_s> instead of truly trying
<troy_s> n8k99 i think sabdfl simply doesn't understand
<troy_s> he is a very bright guy
<troy_s> with a wonderful vision
<troy_s> but regarding aesthetics, i think he really needs to hire a firm and have these elements _forced_ upon him
<troy_s> not some renegade solo guy
<troy_s> solo works _always_ appear to work better because ONE mind internally bears the consistency
<troy_s> however, that is not true design
<msikma> There's something that I'd like to add. I noticed that the widgets of LegacyHuman were changed (and visually broken) since I upgraded to 6.10. It made me realize that this project's artwork, in the open source spirit, is constantly adapting even though it's sometimes simply a much better idea to leave something as it is, as I feel stability is an extremely important thing that the open source community simply never pays attention to.
<troy_s> read _anything_ about apple's Ive's work
<troy_s> or any serious design movement such as bahaus
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> msikma:  i agree... if we could build in small ways
<msikma> I was thinking of saying some other things in this conversation but it's not really necessary anymore, reading the past screen.
<troy_s> for example,
<troy_s> i was hoping that we could get some 'motifs' in place so that every release we could change them
<troy_s> for example
<troy_s> if we had a true colour palette
<n8k99> bug 67548
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67548 in legacyhuman-theme "LegacyHuman controls/widgets visually broken" [Medium,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67548
<troy_s> we could use say, three colours that are used to visually 'mark' the release
<msikma> indeed, n8k99
<troy_s> in a particular motif
<troy_s> etc
<troy_s> but all of this is for naught as mark's opinion regarding this is unmovable.
<lapo> yep
<lapo> so true
<troy_s> further, i take an offense at the 'official' take that the artwork team failed
<troy_s> we had a schedule
<n8k99> troy_s it appears that the answer I was seeking is "because mark says so"
<troy_s> we had a clearly outlined process
<troy_s> n8k99 now you are getting closer to the money
<troy_s> we had as much structure that was needed (i implemented an almost identical structure at blackbox games for camera work)
<n8k99> troy_s which makes me want to dislist myself from anything art
<troy_s> (on some need for speed contract work)
<troy_s> well no
<troy_s> it is exactly that that will let the issue rest
<troy_s> we must remain strong
<troy_s> and keep our massive progress together
<troy_s> we will have setbacks, and the reality is that _any_ project worth anything will have creative conflict
<troy_s> (just ask msikma and myself)
<troy_s> we must keep the creative conflict going, but the team should still be unified.
<lapo> troy_s: mark is in hid right "dictating" about the arwork in ubuntu, the problem is that he is not the right man for such a job, so the whole thing is ill-fated imho
<troy_s> lapo:  for the now, i might agree.
<msikma> I do think that Mark cares about art.
<troy_s> msikma:  agree 100%
<n8k99> well, in that case - i'd really like it if we set about putting a true design process in place so that we can turn out a consistent product with one month to spare on feist
<troy_s> he is not a dummy
<n8k99> y
<lapo> msikma: he cares, but he has no artistic eyes
<troy_s> well... first thing first
<msikma> Simply put, he cares about it enough to not want to make any huge changes unless he is _fully_ confident in them.
<troy_s> what we need to do is stay together as a team
<troy_s> and let him do what he does.
<lapo> he is surelly a brulliant guy, but artistically speaking he is not
<troy_s> he is a ++terrific++ leader.
<lapo> that very true
<troy_s> that said, we must keep level heads and perhaps form a theme team
<troy_s> where ALL of the folks who have expertise
<n8k99> troy_s right_ that is why i suggest that we put together a design plan
<troy_s> such as lapo and andreasn etc.
<troy_s> n8k99 did you see the design plan that was in place for edgy?
<troy_s> ;)
<n8k99> troy_s i did - i am talking about one that is as specific as you have been discussing
<lapo> troy_s: I cannot really work on something I disagree with (that my hobby, not my work :-)) and the guidelines mark gave are totally wrong imho
<msikma> troy_s: regarding the discussion above, I think it would be wise to call in some sort of a meeting concerning the planning for the next release.
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TroySobotka/backup
<troy_s> msikma:  i think that would be great
<troy_s> but i don't want to appear as though we are trying to 'redirect' the talent pool
<msikma> What's it called? feisty fawn?
<troy_s> i want everyone to really try and keep pushing ubuntu forwards in little ways
<troy_s> for example, fixing smaller icon issues
<troy_s> etc.
<msikma> Maybe even set up a separate mailing list specifically for red tape purposes.
<troy_s> while at the same time,
<troy_s> _collaboratively_ working together to design a bible
<n8k99> troy_s what do you mean 'redirect'?
<troy_s> to start building from
<troy_s> n8k99 we run the risk of appearing like disgrunteled employees and 'doing our own thing'
<lapo> troy_s: I don't want to offend anyone here, but human icon theme is a mess
<troy_s> what i would like in an ideal world is to take _all_
<troy_s> lapo:  you won't find anyone disagreeing with you here lapo i think
<lapo> troy_s: ubuntu should follow the gnome path (as kubuntu does, for example) so tango style
<troy_s> lapo:  it is missing motifs, styles, etc.
<troy_s> lapo:  well i think a look should be distinct on that front
<troy_s> lapo:  a custom icon set is the foundation for a distinct operating system
<troy_s> lapo:  but namespaces and such that tango has set forth should be abided by
<msikma> troy_s: it should be argued, though, that this is a Linux distro aimed at non-Linux users.
<troy_s> msikma:  100% agree
<lapo> troy_s: you can have a distinct icon set following tango guidelines, as a lot of linux application are doing
<troy_s> lapo:  then perhaps we are in agreement
<troy_s> as soon as i see tango i immediately (and wrongly) knee jerk into visualing the tango theme
<msikma> They don't care that Bougainvillea Linux 1.5 or whatever other distros there are also have Tango. But that's beside the point, since I don't feel like touching the icon issue for some time.
<troy_s> i am all for supporting the hard work jimmac has put in getting standards in place etc.
<lapo> yep, and the standards for tango are working nicely
<troy_s> fundamentally though, i would say that the icon look should be a part of the overall look
<lapo> there's even a community around it, which works!
<lapo> sure
<troy_s> lapo:  indeed.  that said i would say that the consistency factor still needs resolution -- again probably a byproduct of not having a design bible.
<lapo> the overall look should be tango style imho
<troy_s> the design bible for icons should be deadly specific regarding two point perspective angles and distance, etc.
<lapo> troy_s: you cannot really reach consistency w/o going tango style for the icons for example, you cannot have enough man power to redo all the icons
<msikma> Tango look isn't perfect either. Tango actually has very little to do with what I believe would be specifically Ubuntu.
<troy_s> indeed.
<troy_s> i agree with msikma here.
<troy_s> lapo:  if we truly do real work here
<lapo> what is tango look for you
<troy_s> and work from paper sketch
<lapo> ?
<troy_s> an _entire_ icon set could be developed in a month
<troy_s> easily
<troy_s> leaving many more for polishing etc.
<lapo> troy_s: noway
<msikma> Sure it can.
<troy_s> if we have a clear design bible
<troy_s> a clear set of looks
<msikma> Make one icon per day and see how far you can get!
<n8k99> troy_s exactly
<troy_s> a clear way of discarding completely out of line images
<msikma> Then do that with five people.
<lapo> msikma: only ooo will take at least 3 montht
<troy_s> I personally could do it in a month
<n8k99> no that! a plan!
<troy_s> not a chance
<troy_s> lapo:  have you seen some of the work in gant?
<troy_s> this guy has churned out about 600 high quality icons
<troy_s> he has a singular vision
<msikma> In less than a month, you'll have maybe about 40% of the entire icon range done, but here's the thing: only 10% of the time that you use the system will you come across the other 60%.
<troy_s> which is what a bible attacks
<troy_s> a plan
<lapo> troy_s: nope, but I know how much time jimmac (which is uber fast) needs to do an icon
<troy_s> miskma:  and polish
<troy_s> lapo:  i am saying get the BROAD strokes in place
<troy_s> and polish based on visibility of icons
<lapo> troy_s: I am a slow picky bastard, but jimmac is light speed :-)
<troy_s> meaning ONCE the icon is in place
<troy_s> POLISH it
<troy_s> as we can
<n8k99> icons desinged per the bible in one month, several months to polish and finish
<troy_s> perhaps we run with only svg monochrome line work to start
<lapo> troy_s: yes but you still have to polish omething like 300 or more icons
<troy_s> n8k99 bingo
<troy_s> lapo:  well remember
<troy_s> an icon exists on a much smaller scale than wallapper
<n8k99> film porcess: rehearsal, light, shoot
<troy_s> if you use the 'forest through trees' mentality
<n8k99> process
<troy_s> n8k99 bingo
<msikma> There's an illustrator at work who makes awesome things. He works in Illustrator, he never uses layers, he never uses shortcut keys for the tools, he never uses algorithms to generate art or perform certain effects, but he works so incredibly fast.
<troy_s> n8k99 brainstorm, set guidelines, build bible, set teams for creating elements
<troy_s> msikma:  bingo
<troy_s> true artists don't worry about tools
<troy_s> in fact, many of the guys i know who have made hundreds of thousands of dollars at art
<troy_s> take restrictions as creative challenges
<troy_s> 'what can you do with this box of toothpicks and black ink?'
<troy_s> ;)
<troy_s> i think we can do it
<troy_s> my only concern
<msikma> Can you run Flash yet? You can find his work under Illustration > Mr. Feaver (http://www.shop-around.nl/)
<n8k99> had an art teacher once make us paint small picture with giant brush
<troy_s> n8k99: awsome.
<n8k99> then next project was giant painting with tiny detail brush
<troy_s> i did the same sort of project for some photography work, we had to use only three shapes -- a cube a pyramid and a sphere with no background and one light
<troy_s> similar tasks
<troy_s> there is a _terrific_ design book called visual literacy i believe
<troy_s> that has a hundred of those projects
<troy_s> how to communicate 'unity' with six black squares all of the same shape etc.
<lapo> nice chat guys, have to go, later
<troy_s> msikma, yah i am on dapper and have a 32 bit firefox
<troy_s> let me look
<troy_s> anyways, i think it is well worthwhile getting the brainstorming going
<troy_s> further, because we wouldn't be tied to the ubuntu release cycle
<n8k99> keywords?
<troy_s> we only need to proceed once everyone is relatively
<troy_s> happy.
<troy_s> register your nickname n8k99
<troy_s> "/msg nickserv register PASSWORD"
<n8k99> i did
<n8k99> yeah - i already have
<troy_s> it was me:)
<troy_s> i changed my pass
<troy_s> sorry for my ignorance
<n8k99> np
<n8k99> i had to start Blue's Clues on the mac mini to get some space!!
<troy_s> wow
<troy_s> msikma
<troy_s> great stuff at that link
<msikma> Do you like it?
<troy_s> amazing artist
<troy_s> yes i really do
<troy_s> i love it.
<troy_s> i always head straight to illustration
<msikma> That's the Shop Around. It's not where I work, but it's right above us at the office building. The two companies go way back, and most of our work comes from them.
<troy_s> because i find that is the one area you can't fake easily :)
<msikma> Hehe yeah
<troy_s> the original stylized stuff is amazing
<msikma> They're kind of like an agency for designers and the likes of. They have a database with people. So that's why they're the "design supermarket".
<msikma> You go there and shop for an artist.
<troy_s> aneurin wright is pretty incredible
<troy_s> angelique houtcamp
<troy_s> love her style
<troy_s> erik kreiks work is good too.
<msikma> Anouk Griffioen used to be my teacher for a year
<troy_s> let me look
<msikma> Then suddenly when I went to get coffee I saw her sitting at shop around :P
<troy_s> very mimetic
<msikma> I didn't learn much, though. The school was terrible. We only had a few lessons.
<troy_s> not my alley.
<troy_s> msikma:  it can largely depend on the type of art school you go to.
<troy_s> msikma:  for example, the school that i got my bfa from was largely avant-garde, which was really eye opening.
<msikma> I actually don't understand why they put only that work of her up. She's got other stuff too which is a bit less abstract.
<troy_s> more abstract?
<troy_s> the work there of hers is rather like photography
<troy_s> i would rather see something more stylized.
<msikma> Well, maybe abstract isn't the right word.
<troy_s> toko's work is quite good in the design category
<troy_s> bold.
<troy_s> interesting stuff there to say the least
<troy_s> i love angeliques and aneurin's work
<n8k99> i am very interested in the prospect of setting a theme/unified look/feel without all the plasticy/glossy stuff
<troy_s> plastic and glossy is
<troy_s> _done_
<troy_s> very dated
<troy_s> in my opinion
<n8k99> but to make it alll look as if it is handmade by 19th centruy craftsmen
<n8k99> your know germany toymakers
<troy_s> i was discussing this with an art director in town
<troy_s> _totally_
<troy_s> i simply love that idea
<troy_s> very 'value'
<troy_s> not cranked out by a plastic mould making machine
<n8k99> right
<troy_s> what is your email address n8k:?
<troy_s> here let me put them on the wiki
<troy_s> check this out... truly might blow you away
<troy_s> this is robin william's computer from the final cut
<troy_s> i know the art director
<troy_s> who did that film
<troy_s> let me put it up on a temp wiki page
<n8k99> https://launchpad.net/people/nathaneckenrode
<troy_s> aw damn it... i never made the connection between your handle and your name
<troy_s> now it is all coming together
<msikma> Glossy is done? Seems to me like it's a very hot design element at the moment. Not just concerning the two other major operating systems. Or, at the very least, perhaps it isn't glossy that's "in", but rather cleanliness is.
<troy_s> msikma:  the current design conferences are all heading towards earthy / organics
<n8k99> yeah, I'm a clever dick huh! *_^
<troy_s> 'clean' and 'organics' aren't mutually exclusive.
<msikma> But do those conferences discuss design in our context as well?
<troy_s> msikma:  all design is influenced by outside movements.  on some level, design moves in unison.
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TroySobotka/fc
<msikma> I am kind of out of touch with the design community, though. Ever since I started doing ActionScript for a living, it's just been dwindling a little.
<troy_s> check that link out.
<troy_s> that is an edit suite used in final cut
<troy_s> the centerpiece is a fully functional laptop
<troy_s> constructed entirely out of wood
<msikma> hehehe
<msikma> awesome
<troy_s> note the key thumbnail.
<troy_s> cnc'd machined
<troy_s> beautiful eh?
<troy_s> the laptop comes out of the center (look to the finger hole node)
<troy_s> wood aside
<troy_s> i think it is a brilliant application of organics
<msikma> I'll brb, my computer is incredibly slow for some reason (ran out of disk space a sec ago, just cleaned up my hard drive) and I'm going to restart
<troy_s> the design director initially went into it
<troy_s> with 'make all of the futuristic tech look like 1960's soviet space program'
<troy_s> a pretty damn interesting starting point
<troy_s> msikma, hurry back
<msikma> yeah
<msikma> :P
<n8k99> tory_s I totally want that set up !!!
<n8k99> erm i mean troy_s
<n8k99> i have been struggling with the design for my workspace for the last couple of weeks
<n8k99> i believe you have given me a really good starting point towards developing an actual station
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> erm lol
<troy_s> to me, that organic path (**not precisely that implementation or close**)
<troy_s> "feels" ubuntu
<troy_s> not to mention that it is a wonderful thing to juxtapose against an apple or microsoft computer
<troy_s> it speaks revolution
<n8k99> yes
<troy_s> it speaks originality
<troy_s> it speaks 'human over commodity'
<troy_s> etc.
<n8k99> sort of in the manner of "the diamand age"
<msikma> What is a wonderful thing to etc.?
<troy_s> everything that ubuntu stands for.
<troy_s> msikma -- steering into a whole new look for a technology piece
<n8k99> very high tech with old world values for quality
<troy_s> n8k99 totally
<troy_s> that sort of meet some strange mixing
<troy_s> and pop out the future
<n8k99> i totally ienvy the vickies for that reason
<troy_s> vickies?
<troy_s> unfamiliar with it.
<n8k99> erm, group of people out of the neil stephenson novel, "the diamond age"
<troy_s> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<troy_s> ok with you now
<troy_s> i was thinking you were referring to a movement
<troy_s> lol
<n8k99> top of the economic foodchain - very high nanotechnologist but with Victorian sensibilities
<n8k99> well, it is in a fictional sense
<troy_s> if art history teaches one thing, it is to note that all movements come out of a reaction against current 'stasis' and complacency
<troy_s> for example
<troy_s> in music
<troy_s> without disco
<troy_s> we would never had punk rock
<troy_s> ;)
<n8k99> i have seen that theme in several other places
<n8k99> recently
<troy_s> the interesting thing is that _ubuntu_ fully embodies this evolution
<troy_s> except in look :)
<n8k99> right!
<n8k99> which is why i use kde and reconfigure the heck out of it myself
* n8k99 oops! did i actually type that and press enter
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> have you tried enlightenment?
<troy_s> in particular e17?
<n8k99> yes, i did both 16 & 17
<troy_s> enlightenment had the dock long before apple 'invented' it. :)
<troy_s> i think it has some serious potential for 'future' driven interfaces
<msikma> I love messing around with programs if they allow it, but I hardly reconfigure Ubuntu. It's because I want to keep looking at what "casual users" look at. They need to see something nice, and whether I do matters not so very much.
<troy_s> it thinks outside the box on a number of levels, and under the grasp of a cohesive theme, it might be interesting.
<n8k99> yeah - i ran with the star trek theme for e16 for a while
<troy_s> msikma:  identical to me.
<troy_s> n8k99 unfortunately all e work is pretty 'future tech' look in a very unfuture way
<n8k99> i also enjoyed the idea that you could have an animated desktop in e17
<troy_s> as is always the case it seems
<n8k99> yes, its futurism from 60s
<troy_s> n8k99 indeed... again -- very out of box modern approaches.
<troy_s> n8k99 100% spot on!
<troy_s> totally.  the sort of thing that someone looks at 2001 and chuckles about the tech
<troy_s> when compared to where it actually ended up design wise.
<troy_s> (being 2001 a Space Odessy)
<n8k99> right - a good film for future looks is _brazil_
<troy_s> what is interesting is the art direction in blade runner
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> and brazil
<n8k99> they did something truly authentic
<troy_s> blade runner really hits it on point.
<n8k99> they mixed it all up
<troy_s> what a great discussion
<n8k99> so that there is not a continous theme to the look - which is the way life is
<troy_s> i very much appreciate it when art folks look to outside influences for design considerations.
<troy_s> n8k99 i will now need to go find that criterion collection brazil to grab some screenshots
<msikma> The art direction of Brazil and Blade Runner were both astonishing.
<n8k99> i worked for ten years in film & television so it's sort of my shorthand
<troy_s> msikma:  preaching to the choir here.
<msikma> I loved them.
<n8k99> or used to be
<troy_s> n8k99 it's where i am now :)
<msikma> Brazil was an amazing movie. A friend of mine studied film and keeps preaching about it easily being the best thing to have come out in the past 30 years.
<troy_s> n8k99 i have tried to make a case that
<n8k99> i got tired of standing on street corners for 18hrs
<troy_s> n8k99 contemporary film / movies / television is more in line with operating systems than anything else (to mark)
<n8k99> in the new york winter
<n8k99> really?
<troy_s> yes
<n8k99> hmm.. was not aware
<troy_s> not an easy discourse :)
<troy_s> he is _Very_ unmovable on many issues.
<n8k99> yeah, i can see that
<troy_s> which is why i fear it will take _demonstrating_ the proper approach before he will have any belief in our ability as a team
<n8k99> exactly, why i suggeest we go ahead and develop a plan and put it into real action so that we can hand it to him as a product
<n8k99> much like any other package does
<troy_s> totally
<troy_s> that is _Exactly_ my thinking at this point
<troy_s> but i really want the immense talent from the community to get invovled in it
<n8k99> naturally
<troy_s> _without_ distracting from the core development details that we must attempt to address
<dtamas> I hate the current edgy artwork? :( Why the troy_s version has changed?
<n8k99> i like your ubun2 project foundations and if we can form a core group around that as an additional package to be included - this will not distract from the main focus
<n8k99> dtamas: sabfl says so
<n8k99> dtamas: so it is so
<n8k99> erm sabdfl the d is the important part ;)
<troy_s> dtamas long story my friend
<troy_s> dtamas:  to sum up:
* n8k99 truly am much less disgruntled than that may sound
<troy_s> 1) frank schoep had little design development direction from shuttleworth, so he had to make decisions based on his own choices
<troy_s> 2) when he made the push to bzr -- the "canonical deathstar" as he calls it, fired upon him
<troy_s> 3) THEN, and ONLY then did sabdfl get involved
<troy_s> 4) sabdfl then tried to quickly get something in that was up to his liking
<troy_s> which is where you are currently at
<troy_s> dtamas -- does that help?
<troy_s> although by all public accounts, the 'art team' failed
<troy_s> even though it didn't really exist prior to edgy
<dtamas> troy_s: yes. It is sad news :( Are you planning to share your version to download for the public?
<troy_s> you can download away:
<troy_s> i attempted some polishign on it
<troy_s> until it became clear it was all in vain
<dtamas> thanks :)
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming/CurrentDefault
<troy_s> that has the most recent polishings to it.
<troy_s> still not quite there, but alas.
<troy_s> it is too bad because msikma really had an awsome usplash for the set
<troy_s> of course, the whole usplash target changed at the end.
<troy_s> for technical reasons i believe (although the ever industrious Seveas might be able to comment on this to greater detail)
<troy_s> dtamas -- that help?
<Seveas> ?
<troy_s> usplash
<troy_s> is your implementation in edgy?
<Seveas> it's not justmine, I onlymade theming possible 
<msikma> By the way, why wasn't the Edgy usplash's "Ubuntu" logo text simply made white? I think that using black makes it look a little awkward.
<troy_s> msikma:  ask sabdfl :)
<troy_s> seveas:  too bad the animation isn't illustrated
<msikma> He specifically asked for it?
<Seveas> I like the final ubuntu usplash
<troy_s> i would like to animate msikma's and incorporate it into a working usplash
<troy_s> but i have no idea how the code should look
<troy_s> Seveas yes -- i think it is better than the dapper one
<troy_s> but i am in a lower res
<troy_s> and the limited colour spectrum etc that pops up makes it look a little 'thick'
<msikma> Making a pointing finger cursor is difficult
<troy_s> white on black with thinner linework might have been a wiser...
<troy_s> alas
<troy_s> there he is!
<msikma> indeed
<troy_s> newz2000
<troy_s> !
<newz2000> crap
<troy_s> welcome to crap!
<newz2000> wait, before I forget, I came in for a reason...
<troy_s> newz2000, for those who don't know, is canonical's official web guru now
<msikma> Who's newz2000?
<msikma> Ohhh
<msikma> Web guru?
<troy_s> and a bright mind
<troy_s> to beat.
<troy_s> indeed.
<newz2000> :D
<troy_s> he is responsible for implementing the web stuffs
<troy_s> (don't rag on him, he must obey orders)
<troy_s> :)
<newz2000> I just booted edgy and things are out of alignment on the boot up
<msikma> So you're the person I can complain to when I feel that the homepage of Ubuntu goes against what the system is trying to accomplish (ideologically, not visually) by quite a large degree?
<troy_s> all of us in artwork can appreciate that i believe.
<msikma> Oh, I see
<msikma> The homepage is something that I want to revive, too.
<newz2000> msikma: yes
<troy_s> newz2000 yes... they are.
<troy_s> newz2000 I think frank is frantically trying to resolve those issues
<newz2000> msikma: I'd love your thoughts and feedback, but don't get upset if Mark hires a local to do it.
<troy_s> newz2000 any python scripting work going on ?  ;)
<troy_s> newz2000 we won't get upset
<troy_s> mark will hire local to do it all
<newz2000> not yet, not this week likely, with edgy preps
<troy_s> for better or for worse.
<newz2000> so I don't need to file a bug about the boot screen?
<troy_s> newz2000 i dont think so
<troy_s> newz2000 i would think most people know how fecked it looks
<newz2000> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/tmp/Screenshot-Vmware-boot.png
<newz2000> I like the logo
<newz2000> It would be interesting to see a chronology of the ubuntu desktops. We've gone from dark brown -> light brown -> orange -> ??? (silly putty)
<newz2000> Still, the desktop looks nice and I'm glad to see we got something approved for edgy.
<troy_s> newz2000 the silly putty look is purely because sab wouldn't budge on the lsplash
<troy_s> and the rest of the bits had to follow it (or not and end up right were dapper was)
<troy_s> it is ...
<msikma> The logo has a bit too obvious bevel, I think
<msikma> A bevel is nice, but there's no need to use it for anything other than just defining the light source a bit better and giving an excuse for the gloss.
<newz2000> I like to be bold, and the monochromacity (??) was soft. Yes, elegant maybe, but this is nice and strong feeling.
<newz2000> I'm not an artist though. :)
<troy_s> not really elegant either
<troy_s> monochrome
* msikma will finish his cursor theme tonight
<msikma> I wonder how one packs cursors
<troy_s> u must use the cursor compiler
<troy_s> to vert the pngs
<troy_s> and provide a hotspot
<msikma> What's the name of that compiler?
<msikma> Or an
<msikma> or a
<newz2000> msikma: please, share when you have time what you think about the home page. I really appreciate feedback.
<newz2000> imbrandon: that person I mentioned contacted me and wants to help with auc. He's a php coder.
<msikma> newz2000: sure! I've got some ideas for it. But I'll first share why I think this current method does not work (albeit, not for the target group of Ubuntu). Or at least why _I_ think it doesn't. Nobody's ever right, afterall...
<msikma> But first, tea. It's a huge rainstorm outside so that means hot beverages are required.
<troy_s> ok back to edgy for some migration... brb
<nysosym> hi all
<n8k99> hi there
<nysosym> hi n8k99 how are u?
<n8k99> hangin in - its late arvo and the bub is just about to go nuts
<n8k99> i'll have to take a break soon and straighten up teh wolrd before her mum gets home
<n8k99> ^_^
<n8k99> nysosym: so how are you doing?
<nysosym> hehe, im very sleepy after work and i surf a little bit in the internet :D
<n8k99> nysosym: very nice. which side of the atlantic are you on?
<nysosym> on the europe side of the world, in the middle of germany :D
<nysosym> and you?
<n8k99> the center of the universe - new york city
<n8k99> <winky smile>
<nysosym> hehe nice, how is the weather in new york? :D
<n8k99> cloudy and cool - my favorite time of year
<nysosym> sure? I love the summer, the sunshine and party :D
<n8k99> i only like that weather when I am 10 degrees from the equator
<nysosym> hmm okay, and what do u doing in your freetime?
<n8k99> play some music on my horn
<n8k99> ride my bike
<n8k99> and play with my daughter
<n8k99> wait that's almost all of my time
<nysosym> horn?
<nysosym> u play a horn?
<n8k99> yeah - an old german cornet i got off ebay
<troy_s> n8k99: dump your thoughts onto that brainstorm
<n8k99> ok - will have to do it in a little bit; must straighten the house/entertain the child while everything simmers in my head
<n8k99> i'll poke at it later tonight
<msikma> Making a decent hand is terribly difficult
<msikma> http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/hand_draft.png
<msikma> I'm thinking of making the index finger bigger (and anatomically incorrect)
<BHSPitLappy> I'm really good at drawing hands
<msikma> Do you have any tips?
<BHSPitLappy> not really
<BHSPitLappy> I can draw detailed hands with a pencil
<BHSPitLappy> what do you need to make this for?
<msikma> Cursor theme
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-24
<newz2000> imbrandon: ping (re: art.ubuntu.com)
<gnaunited> So, anyone on?
<imbrandon> newz2000, pong
<imbrandon> newz2000, ( gotta pop in the shower, back in a few ) i'll check that gentlemen out after that
<imbrandon> ;)
<lapo> hi there
<_MMA_> Hello guys. I have a question.
<_MMA_> Im working on Ubuntu Studio. We are getting our art together. We want to change how the default desktop looks. Theme, icons and Layout. ie: We only want 1 panel.
<_MMA_> Where can I look to see what needs to be done to change this?
<_MMA_> I know there is a defaults file. I just dont know how to go about packaging it and applying it on install.
<HiddenWolf> _MMA_: I'd say you could ask dholbach or seb128 in #ubuntu-desktop, or someone in #motu
<_MMA_> Ok. Thank you. Do you know where there is good Usplash documentation?
<_MMA_> I need to create one.
<HiddenWolf> Seveas: ping ^^
<Seveas> _MMA_, it's in the usplash0dev package
<Seveas> usplash-dev even
<HiddenWolf> I beckon, he comes
<HiddenWolf> How lovely is it to be me.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-25
<gnaunited> imbrandon ping
<gnaunited> ping ubuntulog
<gnaunited> nvm then
<troy_s> greetings all.
<troy_s> /notify
<joejaxx> Good Morning All
<BHSPitLappy> yo
<joejaxx> hwllo
<joejaxx> hello
<joejaxx> BHSPitLappy: what are you up to at this hour?
<BHSPitLappy> just got home from work
<joejaxx> oh ok
<BHSPitLappy> is it 6:30am over there??
<joejaxx> 1:18AM
<BHSPitLappy> ah
<BHSPitLappy> your ctcp time reply is funky, then
<BHSPitLappy> err
<joejaxx> yeah
<BHSPitLappy> wait
<BHSPitLappy> I made a mistake, but it's still funky
<BHSPitLappy> it reports 12:18
<joejaxx> yeah it is where this server is
<joejaxx> right now i am trying to make a ubuntu like drupal theme for the site
<joejaxx> based off the spreadfox theme
<joejaxx> well bbl
<lapo> hi
<troy_s> howdy
<HiddenWolf> Is there a designer here that would be interested in making me a logo for a project I'm working on?
* HiddenWolf dislikes disconnects
<HiddenWolf> question still stands.
<msikma> Hi everybody
<msikma> I have a question: who made the new usplash code again?
<msikma> Hmm... I want to use Evolution on an 800x600 display, but the wizard is too large for me to see the "forward" button :P
<cbx33> hehehe
<msikma> Anyway, whoever made the new code for usplash, I have a (hopefully easy to implement) suggestion for an update.
<msikma> Namely, it seems to dump a lot of feedback into my terminal when it starts up.
<msikma> Which seems to be debugging information, or something.
<msikma> I'd guess that it matters to the people who occasionally switch to tty1, because when logging in, the screen will be littered with debugging information.
<msikma> While everything still works, of course.
<imbrandon> msikma, Seveas made it ( but best thing to do is make a wishlist bug report on Launchpad.net )
<Seveas> msikma, it's not usplash that does that
<imbrandon> Seveas, upstart ?
<Seveas> mostly the kernel
<Seveas> if you boot with quiet on the kernel command line you won't be seeing it
<frandavid100> good evening!
<frandavid100> andreasn: did you have time to see the icon I sent?
<andreasn> oh crap
<andreasn> sorry, been busy with material for LinuxWorld the last couple of days
<andreasn> and forgot all about it
<andreasn> I'll look into it right away
<andreasn> all right, looking at the last one you sent me
<frandavid100> what's your opinion?
<andreasn> it seems that it has a lot of extra nodes in dialog-cancel2.svg
<frandavid100> really? but I just moved the ones that were already there.
<frandavid100> didn't create any nodes...
<andreasn> check this out: http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/toosmanynodes.png
<frandavid100> sorry for the unrlated question, but why does your inkscape have tango icons? you added them yourself?
<andreasn> yeah, I did, it's in the works
<frandavid100> that's really cool
<frandavid100> well what can be done about those nodes?
<andreasn> you can select them and delete them
<frandavid100> alright
<andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/icons.svg
<andreasn> if you want the inkscape icons
<andreasn> feel free to help out
<frandavid100> I thought maybe inkscape could do that automatically or something
<andreasn> you can use the simplify action
<andreasn> but that works a little weird
<andreasn> need to get off to bed now
<andreasn> take care!
<frandavid100> take care andreas
<andreasn> you too
<imbrandon> okies, how many of you guys and gals are awake ?
<imbrandon> i need a few testers for the new art.ubuntu.com site ( that mark announced a bit early on me hehe ) so if you all have some time today run http://art-staging.ubuntu.com through the ringer ( and it will /not/ get wiped ) as long as no "show stoppers" come up it will go live soon
<imbrandon> i'm off for a little bit , email me if you have any issues ( imbrandon@kubuntu.org )
<imbrandon> cbx33 dborg effraie HiddenWolf jelmer joejaxx michielsikma_ msikma nixternal ryanakca troy_s Seveas ^^
* imbrandon is afk
<nixternal> can i put moonies up ?
<imbrandon> nixternal, only if you want your ip banned ;)
<nixternal> that is art, unless of course it is my moon, then it should be illegal
<nixternal> haha
<michielsikma_> imbrandon: don't do that.
<imbrandon> as in dont do what ?
<nixternal> ban my ip ;)
<ryanakca> imbrandon: PONG
<ryanakca> too bad I can't do what seveas did and kick you with the message PONG
<ryanakca> ah
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o Seveas]  by ChanServ
<imbrandon> hahaha
<ryanakca> hey Seveas :)
<ryanakca> imbrandon: it looks good :)
<ryanakca> imbrandon: umm... when the validation for registration is sent, would it be possible to have something like "Ubuntu Artwork" in the From/Sender field?
<imbrandon> ryanakca, done
<ryanakca> kk
<imbrandon> ( will from now on )
<imbrandon> anyhow, i'm off, later
<ryanakca> kk, see yah
<ryanakca> oooh, interesting, password protected albums...
<michielsikma_> imbrandon: don't name everybody in the channel for no reason. It sets off people's alerts.
<imbrandon_> i set them off intentionaly, read the line before i did so, i know the netiquate for spamers , and this was not done in that sense,thanks
<msikma> imbrandon_: it matters not. Do not set off people's highlights needlessly. It needlessly alerts them.
<msikma> It's annoying, it's spamming, whatever you want to call it.
<msikma> There is never a reason to do it, and ``trying to attract attention for channel-wide announcements'' is not an excuse either.
<msikma> If you're important enough to have to say things that concern everybody in the channel, you'll edit the topic.
<Seveas> urh, msikma got his pants twisted...
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:Seveas] : Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork!  For more information -  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork - Hot from the oven: http://art-staging.ubuntu.com
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o Seveas]  by ChanServ
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-26
<linnuxxy> i need a full resolution image of the ubuntu CD cover
<linnuxxy> where can i find it?
<ZirJoker> somebody send me a screenshot of his desktop
<linnuxxy> I want to make a Ubuntu Key chain... is there any suitable images for that?
<Trae> troy_s, you the head of this rag tag crew of space pirates?
<Trae> :)
* Trae adds #ubuntu-art to his xchat list
<Trae> back in a sec.
<Trae> bbl, Jericho and lost are coming on!
<Trae> ;)
<Trae> bah, already starting off on the wrong foot. heh.
<Trae> gmail really needs a "Edit as New" feature.
<Trae> Sorry about the email "forward" to the list.  I originally sent to ubuntu-art@ubuntu.com which came back to me. :)
* Trae goes to get some work done.
<troy_s> trae?  you called?
<Trae> troy_s, howdy
<Trae> troy_s, Just sent an email to the list announcing my availability for work
<Trae> :)
<Trae> Sorry about the forward... I messed up (read above)
<Trae> thought it was simply "sending as new" so to speak.  :)
<troy_s> great stuff
<troy_s> unfortunately
<troy_s> sabdfl is going to re-hire the guy who developed the dapper work
<troy_s> so the community contributions regarding the official default work will be rather limited
<troy_s> don't be discouraged however, there are many projects gearing up off official.
<Trae> ahhh
<Trae> No worries
<Trae> odd that Mark made that recent post then.
<Trae> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/63
<Trae> seemed like a call to arms to me.
<Trae> and whoeever runs ubuntu.com should fix the 1px bug that's been bugging me forever on the navigation links area
<Trae> heh
<Trae> http://occy.net/tmp/1px-bug-ubuntu.com.png
<troy_s> i believe his comments were directed more at the rather silly predicament he landed us in.
<troy_s> newz2000 is the canonical web fellow
<troy_s> forward your issues to him
<Trae> heh, sent it to Mark, I'm sure he'll send it to him.
<Trae> got his email addy?
<Trae> newz2000 {AT} ubuntu?
<troy_s> don't waste sabs time
<troy_s> he has a gabillion mails per day
<troy_s> and things are very busy right now.
<troy_s> further, design by committee works very well actually.  if you need references trae, just ask :)
<Trae> troy_s, Perhaps, through your actions and others in this community, I'll come to agree with your "design by committee" works statement.
<Trae> However, in my experience, it has not been the case
<Trae> I'll have to simply agree to disagree with you on that one point ;)
<Trae> Yeah, probably should have waited till the 27th huh?
<Trae> ;)
<Trae> heh
<Trae> course, I have no idea what kind of craziness goes on during a release
<troy_s> that's fine
<troy_s> what is your experience?
<Trae> well...
<Trae> I do graphics.
<Trae> Don't know if you remember themes.org
<Trae> It used to be the place for Themes for X
<Trae> I sent an image in that email to the list
<Trae> http://occy.net/tmp/themes.net-FINAL-3.png
<Trae> Everyone has different styles, this is a mockup of a Drupal theme I'm probably going to implement (unless I get tired of it by the time I actually get time to build the theme)
<Trae> :)
<Trae> I've been using Linux since 1996
<Trae> I only started using Linux because it was pretty
<Trae> I saw a shot of Carsten's (Rasterman of E fame) fvwm-xpm and fell in love
<troy_s> ahh yes.  e is wonderful.
<Trae> It was the sex of that screenshot that made me fall in love with what was possible with a Desktop.
<Trae> Wish I still had that old picture...
<Trae> I've tried and used just about every window manager on the planet
<Trae> I use Gnome personally... but try and use KDE about once a month
<troy_s> Needless to say, you certainly won't have much credit when stating 'design by committee doesn't work' when you are in an open source environment.  the very tool that i type on now is entirely a byproduct of that approach.  ;)
<Trae> Don't feel like starting a DE war
<Trae> troy_s, please read what I wrote
<troy_s> anyways, to give you a brief summary
<Trae> Design and Applications are tied yes, but... Vision is another thing.
<troy_s> vision is also collaborative?
<Trae> Ok, I will hold to my personal beliefs and work within the framework
<Trae> is that fair?
<Trae> I'm here to help
<Trae> not argue or fight
<Trae> as I stated in my email
<Trae> I can be a solider
<Trae> or I can lead
<Trae> or I can be a community team working whatchawantme to do type of guy
<Trae> Perhaps, through my involvement with this project, I'll come to see and understand the wisdom you've already attained, and that is that design can work by committee
<Trae> I personally haven't seen it in action.
<Trae> My best friend, Garrett, worked on the Redhat Desktop (Bluecurve?)
<troy_s> hey we are on the same page my friend.  i am quite a fan of discussing those loftier concepts.
<Trae> he worked with me on Linux.com and taught me tons about design and interface stuffs
<Trae> shhh Madpilot is here
<troy_s> my interest is in _making it work_, which is rather new in the art sphere.  it certainly has some wonderful examples of possibilities if you consider tango, etc.
<Trae> Madpilot, ;)
<Madpilot> hi all
<troy_s> greetz mad.
<Trae> troy_s, check the Tango people list
<Trae> http://tango.freedesktop.org/The_People
<Trae> course, it's been a while since I've worked on Tango stuff, I helped get it off the ground.
<troy_s> some of the tango celebs hang out here.
<Madpilot> Trae, funny, just clicked on your email to the artlist
<Trae> didn't do any graphics, but was invited
<Trae> err was invited to the project because a lot of the artists respect my opinion
<Trae> (and are dear friends)
<troy_s> lapo, andreas, jimmac, etc.  although i haven't seen much from jimmac of late.
<Trae> yah.. Jakub rox
<troy_s> we are currently in a bit of a bind really...
<Trae> Madpilot, hehe
<troy_s> the main problem is the fact that sabdfl is the authoritative 'vision' behind the art development end.
<Trae> Madpilot, again sorry for the forward.  *sigh*  silly gmail
<Trae> troy_s, that's a good thing! (imho :)
<troy_s> exactly my point about your initial post ;)
<Trae> unless sabdfl hasn't a clue as to what good design is.  But if he/she is the one that's doing stuff of late, then... we are in good hands
<troy_s> it can work, and it can fail.
<Trae> troy_s, as with any project.
<Trae> troy_s, and at some point, it will fail.
<troy_s> in particular, if you examine the dapper work
<Trae> everything does
<Trae> :)
<troy_s> you can see exactly the downside of it.
<Trae> let's just hope it's much later rather than sooner (and I believe it'll be muuuuch later)
<troy_s> which is very obvious design issues regarding harmony of thematic, colour, style
<Trae> nod
<troy_s> and the most surprising thing
<troy_s> is yet again
<troy_s> dapper was designed by one person
<Trae> with a disto, things can get bottlenecked as there are lots of decisions
<troy_s> under sab's guidance.
<Trae> but... control is a good thing (again, IMHO) when it comes to design and look and feel.
<troy_s> so, as per vision, there is a very clear one.  strictly design speaking, one could make a textbook analysis and argue that there are some fundamental issues with some of the execution.
<Trae> What sabdfl has to impart upon us is his vision and let us carry it out in his name
<Trae> that sounds silly after tying it
<troy_s> well... he controls pixels.
<Trae> hehe
<troy_s> having been through a good cycle of it, i can tell you -- you are welcome to attempt and meet the flow.
<Trae> sippin' the sab Kool-aid
<Trae> *chuckle*
<Trae> troy_s, crazy stuff huh?
<troy_s> ultimately, what you see is about as close to perfection (in dapper) as sab would like.
<Trae> ahh
<Trae> I see lots of room for improvement personally
<troy_s> which, unfortunately, took a good deal to even swing the palette into alignment (albeit monochrome as it is)
<troy_s> indeed.
<Trae> One idea I had... (silly me) is just like our release names
<Trae> to have themes for each release
<Trae> and UNTIE ourselves to this palette
<troy_s> you and possibly 99.99993% of the population.  and that is only touching the portion that would consider themselves untrained and unqualified.
<Trae> keep the same hues and sats...
<troy_s> good luck.
<Trae> haha
<Trae> I know
<troy_s> fundamentally, before you even begin design, i would make a pretty good case that you need a palette.
<Trae> yup
<troy_s> being hue (value appropriate if you lay out a few guidelines)
<troy_s> well ubuntu has _no such creature_
<troy_s> and we tried to get one
<troy_s> this past cycle
<Trae> troy_s, just like with any design, you have to have a palette
<troy_s> but were horrifically stumped.
<troy_s> in terms of development
<Trae> Personally, I think the best thing would be to steal Garrett LeSage from Novell
<troy_s> the brainstorm -> refine -> expand -> implement process simply was a complete disaster (despite working for every large design firm in existence)
<Trae> *chuckle*
<troy_s> well kwwii is here from novell.
<troy_s> working on kde
<troy_s> but kubuntu is a different creature from ubuntu
<Trae> nod
<troy_s> so let me stress,
<troy_s> sabdfl calls _all_ the shots
<Trae> troy_s, yessir
<Trae> troy_s, well, if he's seen my post and wants my help, I'm here.
<troy_s> and believe me, we had MUCH
<troy_s> participation from very talented folks
<troy_s> this cycle
<troy_s> _nothing_ was to his liking.
<Trae> odd
<Trae> Is he a KDE person?
<troy_s> and in the end, it resulted in a frantic rush to pixel push exactly what you see in edgy
<Trae> that sounds like a crazy thing to ask but...
<troy_s> there is a pretty good paper trail if you would like to follow it.
<Trae> don't need to reallly... I can probably get all I need to know by seeing a screenshot of his actual desktop
<Trae> I can tell TONS about a person just from seeing how they have their own desktop set up
<troy_s> just look at dapper
<troy_s> ;)
<Trae> haha
<Trae> interesting
<troy_s> that is darn near perfection
<troy_s> so, i will say at the onset
<troy_s> that i believe we all had very lofty goals at the onset of edgy
<n8k99> hi troy_s
<troy_s> and i _do_ appreciate your stepping up to the plate.
<troy_s> because i very much value any artist with training and experience.
<n8k99> how goes it?
<troy_s> very good thank you
<n8k99> excellent!
<n8k99> there was a rather confusing email on the list this morning
<n8k99> sabdfl said that all the artwork in edgy was community contributed
<n8k99> or did i read that email wrong?
<Trae> troy_s, Well... I'm here to help on small tasks at the moment if that will help.  I know we have a long road to Fawn
<troy_s> yes you did
<troy_s> it is correect
<troy_s> correct even
<Trae> as I can, I'll try and step up if needed
<troy_s> yes...
<troy_s> personally
<troy_s> i would like to see the team still contribute to what sab has regarding his current vision
<Trae> if not, I'll sit back and offer my observations and they can either go to /dev/null or be of good use
<Trae> :)
<troy_s> that means polishing up the minute bits...
<troy_s> if he will allow it... sometimes he is well open -- for example take the emblems
<troy_s> that happened overnight (unfortunately they needed some content attention regarding some of the icons chosen -- but alas, anything is good)
<troy_s> n8k99: did you manage to get some wiki thoughts down?
<n8k99> troy_s:no it's been heavy load here, daughter sick, uni assignments
<joejaxx> hola
<joejaxx> i mean hello
<n8k99> troy_s plus the wife's firm just picked up a heavy load
<n8k99> time disappeared
<troy_s> tis ok.   my time is nil right now
<troy_s> thanks to this godforsaken show.
<n8k99> ah yes- the 18hrs of channel 1
<troy_s> greets pas
<troy_s> n8k99: i will probably offer up a cross post to all the folks to see if i can muster up some braining.
<n8k99> that sounds good
<n8k99> going to bed  now
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<imbrandon> moins fellas
<imbrandon> ahh troy_s {is,was} awake :)
<lapo> yo
<troy_s> greets folks.
<troy_s> wow
<troy_s> marks latest blog entry seems to have gained a little attention
<troy_s> hilarious really.
<troy_s> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/63#comment-10065
<troy_s> possibly the best blog entry yet, although equally heavy handed.
<imbrandon> heya troy_s
<imbrandon> gnight folks
<lapo> yo
<frandavid100> hellooo
<frandavid100> didyou check the icon andreasn?
<andreasn> hey frandavid100
<andreasn> frandavid100: I'm afraid I haven't had time to look at the latest version yet
<andreasn> I'll take a look right away
<frandavid100> hi andreasn
<frandavid100> it has just a few nodes
<frandavid100> was quite easy actually
<andreasn> cool, you're getting the hang of it
<frandavid100> I think so
<frandavid100> still have some doubts but it's getting better
<andreasn> I think you need to loose even more nodes in the corners
<andreasn> let me take a shot at it
<frandavid100> so, what's the problem with more nodes? do they make the file heavier or something?
<andreasn> yes
<andreasn> exactly
<andreasn> and more for the svg renderer to keep track of
<frandavid100> well they should have what? 3 nodes at the corners?
<frandavid100> just one with handles?
<andreasn> yeah, try three
<frandavid100> I'll give it a try
<frandavid100> could you give me again the inkscape tango icons?
<frandavid100> I'd like to try them
<andreasn> sure, hold on
<andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/icons.svg
<andreasn> just put them in ~/.inkscape/icons
<frandavid100> I'm not sure I get it. the link opens in epi and it's just a huge picture
<andreasn> save it to your harddrive
<frandavid100> yeah, worked :D
<andreasn> now go to .inkscape/icons in your home folder
<andreasn> and copy it there
<frandavid100> yeah it's done
<frandavid100> looks gorgeous like this
<andreasn> still some rough edges in there
<andreasn> if you want to help out, it would be great
<frandavid100> guess inkscape and gimp's icons should be updated soon
<frandavid100> sure, if I get a bit more practice
<andreasn> gimp have new icons in the latest release
<frandavid100> I'd love to contribute some icons
<andreasn> or, well, in the unstable release
<andreasn> cool, great to hear!
<frandavid100> I'm gonna mess with the X for a while
<frandavid100> see you now
<andreasn> cool, see ya!
<frandavid100> is there any way to reset the handles?
<andreasn> reset?
<frandavid100> well I'll try to make it clear
<frandavid100> when you create a node
<frandavid100> it's just a square, and acts like a corner
<andreasn> yeah
<frandavid100> but you can set some handles to it, which make the lines curvy
<frandavid100> can you delete those handles?
<andreasn> ah, and you want it straight again?
<andreasn> select the two nodes where there is a curve
<andreasn> and press the 10th icon under Edit paths and nodes
<andreasn> the one that says "Make selected segments lines"
<andreasn> there are two nodes with a straight line between them
<frandavid100> alright yeah
<frandavid100> this is too cool
<frandavid100> I can see myself wasting dangerous amounts of time with this :P
<andreasn> hehe
<andreasn> I spend like 4 hours a day in Inkscape
<andreasn> hm, Ubuntu ships with the regular firefox icon now
<frandavid100> I saw some of your icons before, like the one with the blackboard
<frandavid100> they're just too cool
<andreasn> ah, the education one
<andreasn> it's was massively inspired by a icon by David Vignoni
<frandavid100> don't know him, sorry
<frandavid100> is there any way to make an object's edge fit another object?
<frandavid100> like, automatically fix the nodes and handles
<andreasn> not that I know of
<andreasn> you could pop by #tango and ask
<andreasn> bet there is someone in there who knows
<frandavid100> no, just wanted to know that I wasn't doing unnecessary work
<frandavid100> alright andreasn I took out some more nodes
<frandavid100> it's not much lighter though
<andreasn> need to grab some dinner now
<andreasn> can I take a look at it later?
<frandavid100> sure
<frandavid100> I don't understand it, as many nodes as I remove it weighs over 240kb, and the accept one weighs just 40 :(
<andreasn> File > Vaccum defs
<frandavid100> oh man weighs 10kb now
<msikma> okay guys
<msikma> Which hand cursor should I keep? The one on the left or the one on the right?
<msikma> http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/cusorsoptimize.png
<msikma> Currently, I'm thinking of keeping the one on the left, but if you have good arguments for the one on the right, I might pick that one instead.
<andreasn> high-contrast?
<HiddenWolf> is there anyone here who might consider making a logo for a website which isn't ubuntu-related?
<newz2000> imbrandon imbrandon_: I pointed auc to art-staging. Also I've set it up so that when art.kubuntu.org is setup it will go to the right place.
<msikma> andreasn: no, general-purpose.
<andreasn> ah, ok
<andreasn> we need more highcontrast love though
<andreasn> we need it bad
<msikma> I guess it is high contrast too
<andreasn> :)
<msikma> I intend to make larger versions later, maybe they can act as high contrast cursors?
<msikma> hmm... I need to fix the question mark arrow
<andreasn> hm, yeah, a hc cursor set is cool
<andreasn> not sure if we have one or not right now
<andreasn> a random guess is no, as we seem to hate people with visual impairment or something for the moment
<andreasn> like count the number of apps having hc versions for their app icon
<msikma> Now, let's see
<msikma> which icons am I still missing?
<msikma> er
<msikma> cursors
<msikma> I guess I might need to make the small 2px stripes (resize icons) 3px instead so it can have an opaque area
<msikma> http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/cusorsoptimize_1.png
<msikma> I'm also wondering about the way the hand cursor is cut off... hmm.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-27
<Trae> troy_s, howdy... do we have an official palette yet?
<Trae> troy_s, can't remember if you said so or not
<Trae> it'd be good if we can make Inkscape and Gimp Palette's available along with a page dedicated to it on the site.
<Trae> what's more... Whatever look and feel we come up with really should be extended to the ubuntu.com site and the wiki's
<Trae> There are a lot of pages that are just ugly
<Trae> my 2second comment :)
<Trae> bbl
<Viper550> w00t! Edgy's out, finally!
<Viper550> anyone here?
<Madpilot> http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7853/ubunturoughthumbmh0.png
<troy_s> Trae you in?
<troy_s> imbrandon you called earlier?
<troy_s> Trae still no palette if you are referring to the 'official' work.  Probably never will be (aside from the two hues on the lsplash.)
<troy_s> msikma greets
<msikma> hi troy_s
<msikma> and goodbye again. see you tonight.
<lapo> yo
<BHSPitLappy> oy
<lapo> hi
<juliux> hi all
<juliux> has somebody an edgy eft grafik?
<frandavid100> hiya
<lapo> hi
<msikma> hey
<lapo> yo msikma
<msikma> what's up?
<lapo> msikma: my laptop can wake up correctly with edgy and I'm really happy about it :-)
<msikma> awesome.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-28
<Viper550> anyone here?
<klepas> servus
<Viper550> anyone here right now?
<Viper550> troy_s? you there?
<klepas> hullo
<AlexC_> Hey,
<nixternal> newz2000: on your way to chicago yet? ;)
<newz2000> nixternal: I wish. Guess I'm going to miss this one.
<nixternal> hehe
<Viper550> hello everyone
<Viper550> is anyone here?
<msikma> hey
<msikma> what's going on?
<Viper550> I redid my desktop for Halloween - http://bay01.imagebay.com/full_view.php?view=8369_halloween1.png
<Viper550> Something in this picture may look familiar...
<msikma> That's a very nice edit of troy's wallpaper. I like the colors.
<msikma> I'd personally like my window skin to have light grey as widget background, but I guess that's the halloween part about it.
<Viper550> Eleaf did it for me since I don't have Xara Xtreme (and there are no native FC5 packages for it)
<msikma> Hey Viper550, I'm working on a cursor theme, but I wonder if I'm missing any cursors
<msikma> Maybe you can see if I am? http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/cusorsoptimize_1.png
<Viper550> Hey I remember those...
<msikma> Yeah, I've had the basics around for a while
<msikma> I just finished the hand cursor
<Viper550> missing the text selection cursor?
<Viper550> I think you are also missing just the right angle cursors without the arrows
<msikma> ahh, right
<msikma> Hmm, right angle cursor?
<Viper550> ul_angle? ur_Angle?
<Viper550> and ll_angle?
<msikma> hmm
<msikma> Do you know where I can see an example?
<Viper550> I'm looking in the Human cursors using Konqueror
<Viper550> it's top_right_corner for example but without the arrow
<msikma> ah, where are they located?
<Viper550>  /usr/share/icons/Human/cursors
<msikma> hmm
<msikma> Gnome cannot seem to give me previews
<Viper550> Konqueror does
<msikma> guess I'll have to install KDE later, then
<Viper550> installing Konqueror will not install all KDE packages, but it does have a good bunch of dependencies
<Viper550> or I'll just make a picture for it
<msikma> Maybe you could, since I'm working on it right now and don't feel like doing other things beside it
<Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/full_view.php?view=8373_cursors.png
<msikma> thanks!
<Viper550> Speaking of Cursors, I actually kinda like Fedora's cursors
<Viper550> mskima: could you upload those cursors you made?
<Viper550> Hello everyone..again!
<msikma> hi
<msikma> I'm not done with the cursors yet, Viper550, so I'll upload them later.
<Viper550> okay...
<Viper550> I made a neat little Halloween wallpaper using one of troy_s's GDM designs
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-29
<Trae> troy_s, sorry...
<Trae> troy_s, I'm about to head to bed.
<Trae> sup bud?
<tomveens> hello
<Snake> Can anyone help me interprete the GPL and its useage with icons?
<kwwii> Snake: sure, what do you need to know?
<Snake> am I clear to use GPLed icons on "for-profit" websites, also, if I were to use them on my site, how can I do it legally
<Snake> what would I need to make avalible
<kwwii> Snake: the thing is this: there is a big problem with releasing pixmaps per gpl, as it is unclear what the "source" is
<Snake> Yea thats what I dont follow about it
<Snake> kwwii, I just want to use a few icons on kde-look that are released under GPL, but I don't want to break the law doing it
<kwwii> Snake: until now, we have dealt with this situation by saying "yes, you can use the icons, but you should include some pointer to where you got them from, be it the author, the website, etc.
* Snake nods
<msikma> It doesn't matter whether it's for profit, as long as "the source" is available. The FSF sells its software too.
<kwwii> striclty speaking, you can simply use them
<kwwii> msikma: yeah, but what is source in a pixmap?
<Snake> Thats what I mean, how would I allow the source
<kwwii> crystal, for instance has practically no svgs
<Snake> I dont think the svg is really the source
<msikma> I believe that a lossless original version of the icon would then be in order.
<kwwii> Snake: well, if there is no svg's then either the icons cannot really be licensed under the gpl, or the pixmap is the source
<Snake> hmm
<msikma> E.g. if you implement the icon in some way, such as in a layout, you'd need to make a transparent 32-bit PNG available as well, as that's closest to a "source" as possible.
<kwwii> msikma: well, you really only need to point the person to the source
<msikma> You're right
<Snake> msikma, their just small icons next to text, all people need to do is save image as... and thats about as much source as I had
<Snake> Ill link back to whatever I can though
<msikma> Well, then there's nothing to worry about, I guess
<kwwii> Snake: I am sure that that will be good enough
<kwwii> Snake: which icons are you using?
<kwwii> perhaps I know the author
<kwwii> I have dealt with this situation with quite a few different icon theme authors :p
<kwwii> some flip out, most don't
<Snake> kwwii, The crystal icons
<kwwii> Snake: cool, you do not have to worry then, I have dealt with several lawyers concerning this...there is no problem...although they really appreciate it if you post a link to the "source"
<Snake> ok :)
<kwwii> Snake: the crystal icons were developed under contract to several diffferent companies (one of them my previous employer)
<Snake> Wasnt it for linspire?
<kwwii> so no worries
<Snake> iirc?
<kwwii> well, yes, the did pay as well...but I worked for suse (I was everaldo's boss)
<kwwii> and I actually made quite a few of them myself
<Snake> ah i see
<Snake> intresting
<Snake> kwwii, Could I have your name please? (I'm just trying to assume my legal status here to my investors without having to hire a lawyer)
<Snake> assure**
<Snake> not assume*
<kwwii> once oxygen is out, you might want to use that instead :-)
<Snake> :-)
<kwwii> Snake: Kenneth Wimer
<Snake> Oh yea Ill definatly look into that, it looks like a beautiful icon set
<Snake> kwwii, Thanks a ton :-)
<kwwii> Snake: just remeber to include a link to the "source", ok?
<kwwii> that is important
<Snake> im assuming the source would be everaldo's site?
<Snake> or what?
<kwwii> Snake: it could simply be a link to the kde sources
<kwwii> or a link to the source on kde-look
<kwwii> but you need to make sure that the link does not "go bad"
<Snake> oh ok
<Snake> ya thats what I was worried about
<kwwii> in the end, it is totally unclear if you can even license pixmaps as gpl
<kwwii> but as long as they come licensed that way, and you point to some archive where the originals could be found
<kwwii> I mean, if you use the oribinal icons without changing them in any way, then the ones you include are "source"
<kwwii> s/oribinal/original
<Snake> okay great
<kwwii> to be honest, lots of sites have been using them for a long time and nothing has ever happened, even if they did not link to any source
<kwwii> but I suggest doing so in some way, if possible to avoid any possible problems
* kwwii goes all legal after you asked for my name
<kwwii> :p
<Snake> hehehe
<Snake> kwwii, I just wanted to verify so I have a somewhat stable case to present
<Snake> Too easy to simply say your someone else you know?
<kwwii> yeah, it should not be a big problem
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> unfortunately, lot's of people know me
<kwwii> as I am kde art maintainer
<Snake> ah intresting
<Snake> kwwii, I am so glad I found you, no one else could give me a 100% sure answer
<kwwii> Snake: glad I could be of help
<Snake> I'll see you aroun
<Snake> d
<Snake> keep up the good work :-)
<kwwii> thanks :-)
<Snake> thanks again
<Snake> ooo wait
<Snake> kwwii, Is there a timeframe on when oxygen will be out??
<Snake> I cant wait, the previews are awesome
<kwwii> Snake: there will be a release within a month or so
* Snake gasps
<kwwii> we do have them in svn now, but with no license, so nobody can really use them
<kwwii> in an official way
<kwwii> soon that will change and they will all be gpl
<kwwii> and we *do* have svgs
<kwwii> :-)
<Snake> Hmmm so again
<Snake> How does one GPL a icon
<Snake> :-P
<Snake> Someone should really look into that
<kwwii> well, the svg is the source
<kwwii> and the pixmap is the binary
<Snake> perhaps write a GPL compatible license for pixmaps and whatnot
<Snake> ah yea thats true enough
<kwwii> one thing....
<Snake> ?
<kwwii> you should note that the new crystal icons are released from linspire under a funky license
<kwwii> not sure if they changed that
<Snake> hmm
<kwwii> we had several lawyers send the emails asking them to change it
* Snake loks into that
<kwwii> becuase many of the icons are from the original crystal set
<Snake> kwwii, how could I get into the svn for this? Id like to browse them, just to check them out
<kwwii> Snake: with a web browser, one second, I'll find the link
<kwwii> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/artwork/Oxygen/theme/
<Snake> Thanks :-)
<kwwii> no problem
<Snake> Now would I be allowed to use these on my personal PC or no?
<kwwii> yes, you can use them on your pc
<Snake> ooo neat
<kwwii> in fact, there is a script that will build a theme in my directory (one level up from that link)
<Snake> KDE Art devs have mad skills
<kwwii> you need inkscape and imagemagick
<Snake> na thats alright, i'm not in linux at the moment, but my rocketdock really needs a make over
<kwwii> heheh
<kwwii> :-)
<Snake> KDE4 needs to hurry up as well, but I fear when its released it will break beryl :-(
<kwwii> I hope you enjoy them :-)
<Snake> I will for sure :-)
<kwwii> I cannot wait for kde4
<kwwii> I wish it would finally come in line
<Snake> hehehe
<Snake> Have they made any major visual changes yet? last I herd they were getting everything to qt4
<kwwii> actually, yes, we have started a few very interesting new file interaction ideas
<Snake> awesine
<Snake> awesome*
<Snake> Right now i've been using gnome, mainly because compiz had better support for it at the time, and just havn't changed back, when KDE4 comes about, I definatly got to give it another look.
<Snake> I like KDE it self, but, atleast to me, it seems many of the apps that go along with it have a lot of bugs
<Snake> Thought I guess i'd expect it with the number of options they offer
<kwwii> Snake: the neat thing about kde4 is that because of qt4, we have amazing abilities within programs that will make a big difference in user experience even without compiz
<kwwii> although the compiz stuff is pretty amazing
<Snake> I hear beryl has better KDE support than compiz did/does
<Snake> but I havn't the time to check into it
<kwwii> yeah, it does
<kwwii> but who knows what will prove to be the "best" solution in the long run
<Snake> I do! I do!
<Snake> Project Looking glass!
* Snake sinks into his hole and shuts up
<Snake> :-)
<kwwii> lol
<Snake> I'll never understand what opted them to build a window manager on java technology
<kwwii> yeah, no doubt
<kwwii> I think it was more about publicity
<Snake> Perhaps
<kwwii> the linux that sun used was suse...I did a lot of art stuff for sun while I worked at suse
<kwwii> I am not sure if sun knows their ass from a hole in the wall
<kwwii> although they did open source open firmware
<kwwii> anyway....time for a movie
<Snake> alright hehe
<Snake> Have fun
<Snake> thanks again man, cya
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-22
<Madpilot> anyone know where the Ubuntu splashscreen & such are packaged?
<Madpilot> upgrading to Gutsy got me a blue Gnome splashscreen instead of an Ubuntu one
<Madpilot> also little blue Gnome feet in the top-left, instead of the small Ubuntu circle...
<lapo> hi
<nysosym> hi there
<nysosym> what do you think about?
<nysosym> http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ichatspacefn8.png
<lassegul> nysosym: hi!
<nysosym> hi lassegul :)
<lassegul> nysosym: is this an icon?
<nysosym> lassegul: yes for OSX 10.5
<lassegul> nysosym: its nice, but the shape on the bubble is a little wierd, and how does this scale? how does it look in 30x30 or such ?
<lassegul> s/on/of/
<nysosym> mom
<lassegul> :P
<nysosym> that's the look of 16x16
<nysosym> http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2044/ichatspaceminiaa6.png
<nysosym> i think it's ok
<lassegul> It might be a little hard to see the white shape in the middle for the 16x16 version. How about cleaning away all other objects than the blue bubble and the white rectangle for the 16x16 version?
<lassegul> and perhaps it would be better with  the arrow of the bubble being just a bit thicker(bigger)?
<lassegul> nysosym: what do you think?
<nysosym> lassegul: should be possible :D
<mhb> hmm, isn't this channel for ubuntu anymore?
<nysosym> sure, but this is also a channel with many good artist, i thought here can i get the best critic :D
<nysosym> how can i do ultra sharp icon also in small sizes. I have created so much icons but they look a little bit blurry in a small edition
<andrew_> hey guys, im not a computer whiz, but i am big on open source, and have a suggestion
<andrew_> make something that allows non tech literate people like myself to change the login background easier
<andrew_> just put their own picture on there like a desktop background, maybe even editable login box transparency and fonts?
<BHSPitMonkey> andrew must not have seen the Login Window preference
<bersace> Hi everyone
<bersace> kwwii: sad i won't be there Nov the 2nd
<bersace> i'll be away from internet
<kwwii> bersace: when could you come?
<kwwii> I sent an email to the list asking for people's ideas
<kwwii> I cannot come on the 2nd either :-)
<kwwii> bersace: I was thinking either the 1st or sometime in the next week
<bersace> kwwii: same
<kwwii> bersace: sounds like you are taking vacation :-)
<bersace> yep
<kwwii> hehe, you lucky fool
<bersace> kwwii: hey, that's my last student year (hopefuly)
<kwwii> I would easily trade being at the meeting for having vacation ;-)
<bersace> And next year is a sabbatic year, of course :P
<bersace> :)
<kwwii> what degree are you working on?
<kwwii> bersace: I think that the UDS stuff concerning GDM might be of more interest to you anyway
<bersace> ah
<bersace> good
<kwwii> the meeting will be more about setting up a gallery or not, and what exactly we need in that respect
<bersace> also, i'm really thinking on working on wide-theme-switcher next summer, for hardy+1 (aka i*y)
<bersace> maybe using Google Summer of Code
<kwwii> that would be killer
<kwwii> very good idea
<kwwii> +10 if you could get that to work for both gtk and qt :-)
<kwwii> kde has this half broken gtk2qt engine but gnome has nothing like that
<bersace> i may thinkg "backend/frontend", but never write a line of qt
<bersace> each one has its own pride
<kwwii> so for gnome people it would be nice to have a way to get their apps themed even if they use qt
<bersace> :P
<bersace> ah
<kwwii> I am not sure that you would need a qt frontend
<bersace> i though you were talking about the capplet itself
<bersace> the idea is to create something like MetaTheme (there is such subject in xdg)
<kwwii> and even so, if it simply set the theme across the boards I am sure someone would step up and write the qt front-end
<bersace> MetaTheme includes a gtk and a Qt theme
<kwwii> exactly
<bersace> as well as gdm, usplash, (grub?), metacity, compiz, kwin, xfwin, â¦
<bersace> the list is undefined
<kwwii> yeah, it would be a real effort to get themes ready
<bersace> the artist (team ?) can produce a theme with a variable coverage
<kwwii> as it would probably include sounds, etc
<bersace> yeas !
<kwwii> but we could adapt the automatic theme builder to do a metatheme
<bersace> gnome-app-install handle packages, mime-type/codecs, firefox-extension. i'm willing to add thems
<bersace> themes
<kwwii> at least then it would only be a matter of switching things in one place
<bersace> i need a good mentor for such project
<bersace> someone like dholbach
<bersace> robitaille
<bersace> dunno very well
<kwwii> yeah, it was a big loss for us that he left the desktop team to work on the community stuff
<bersace> i'll try to get gnome-scan 0.6 up for March
<kwwii> I felt the difference having to build my own packages
<bersace> then let's wide-theme-switcher on the way
<bersace> ack
<kwwii> coming from SUSE and a pure kde world it was quite a bit of extra work for me
<kwwii> is there already a spec (blueprint now) for this?
<kwwii> I recall seeing something
<kwwii> if not, perhaps I should suggest one for the boston UDS
<kwwii> would you have time to talk about this with us at UDS? as of when are you going to be out of touch?
<bersace> re
<bersace> i wrote wide-theme-switcher specs about one years ago
<bersace> first result for "wide-theme-switcher"
<bersace> !
<bersace> kwwii: as i said, i will pop up this spec for hardy+1
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-23
<nysosym> Hi there
<nysosym> what's better for creating high resolution icons, vektor art or pixel art?
<nysosym> the ground question is, how is it possible to create such realistic stuff like that? http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1879/pageskw2qq0.png
<nothlit> creating realism is all about understanding form and light
<nothlit> and using references if needed
<nothlit> icons can be created in any way you want as long as you can produce the sizes needed
<nothlit> for small icons you will need to snap to the pixel grid with inkscape or optimise with a raster editor
<nothlit> the tango page should have tips
<nothlit> snap to half units with linework
<nothlit> nysosym: about your ichat icon, fix the warble at the bottom and take out the upper hilight, the inner reflection already gives you depth, its more important to show the space
<nothlit> nysosym: and enlarge the chat icon, selectively for small sizes if you wish
<nothlit> anyways there will be significant optimisation needed if you want clearcut icons at all the standard sizes
<nothlit> well, not significant, but it does take footwork
<nysosym> nothlit: yes, i have optimized the icon for small every size (256, 128, 64, 48, 32, 16)
<nysosym> i think it looks fine now at every kind of size
<lassegul> nothlit: hi there
<nothlit> lassegul: heyas
<nothlit> lassegul: sup
<lassegul> nothlit: my internet connection is troubling me. Its up and down like a jojo. I hope I can get it working by thursday. whats up with you?
<nothlit> fluxbuntu busyness
<nothlit> the new site is launched, its looking good http://fluxbuntu.org , troy_s did the design and corevette the javascript effects
<nothlit> lassegul: i just made a few quick edits with some mythbuntu stuff troy is working on
<lassegul> wow. that didnt go well in IE :)
<nothlit> lassegul: ie7?
<nothlit> lassegul: theres a non js version as well
<lassegul> nothlit: its really nice.
<nothlit> lassegul: how do you, an ISP employee have trouble with the internet lol :(
<nothlit> that spells lots of trouble for the rest of us
<lassegul> nothlit: lol. If you only knew... I had to yell and shout to get a technician, a colleague, to have a look at my connection before sometime after the first of november :S
<lassegul> i just realised you can adjust the visual quality of gaussian blur in inkscape last night. That makes the program 500x faster.
<nothlit> lol
<nothlit> i did that for the longest time, but when i pumped it backup up to highest i found no difference :o
<nothlit> maybe different svn version
<mhb> hi folks
<nothlit> heyas
<mhb> kwwii: hmm, was there a specific reason why the meeting time is in the UTC afternoon? Ah, youll be at the UDS, right.
<mhb> by the way, are we still staying with the Human icon theme in Hardy?
<nysosym> nothlit: here is a completely redone version. http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4267/previewic2.png
<nysosym> ignore that, here is the right version (with shadow)
<nysosym> http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=previewcd8.png
<kwwii> mhb: mainly because of UDS
<kwwii> mhb: not sure about Human yet or not, it depends on what else we have
<mhb> kwwii: I am tinkering a bit (as much as school allows) with Human in the last few days
<mhb> kwwii: I would like to make it a bit complete, like exporting the SVG images into more sizes and vectorizing some of the images
<kwwii> mhb: even if we are to change, we are a long way away from that...at this point it is only an idea which we will discuss at UDS
<kwwii> I made a blueprint for it yesterday, still working on a wiki page to explain the idea
<mhb> personally, I think the icons are one of the best parts of the Ubuntu artwork
<mhb> even though their main weakness is their small number and no SVGs
<kwwii> quite a few people think that they would fit better with gnome if they followed the tango guidelines
<mhb> that's what the tangerine theme is for, isn't it?
<mhb> the orange tango, as I like to call it
<mhb> too bad the meeting is so early
<mhb> kwwii: I think the icons are the best example of the "Human" principle in the Human theme, they appear warm and friendly, unlike many other icon sets, especially Tango, which still borrows on the "industrial" GNOME look (all my humble opinion).
<mhb> On the other hand, I have always felt the rest of the theme (window decoration and widget style) to lack this "humanity", even though it may be very hard to incorporate the feel into a technical thing like a widget style.
<mhb> well, I have to go, I am afraid. See you later, folks! And keep up whatever you are doing for Ubuntu!
<_MMA_> Wow. Where did all the people go? :) "I want my animal wallpaper!!!" "You guys are teh suck!!!" But where are they now? ;)
<nothlit> digg effect fades fast
<_MMA_> :)
<nothlit> and how long can they harp on the same issue, especially when its dealt with as well as possible given the circumstances
<_MMA_> Its always "dealt with as well as possible given the circumstances" but they go through this every release.
<_MMA_> Another idea Im working on. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Misc/test2.resized.png and http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Misc/test3.resized.png
<nothlit> _MMA_: the second one could be quite interesting once you get a sense of depth between the backdrop and the logo
<_MMA_> nothlit: I am leaning toward something like the 2nd one but I dont know if I want to separate the logo from the background. Some people dont link obvious branding so I might just try to make it subtle.
<_MMA_> s/link/like
<nothlit> if you want to make it subtle make sure the linework isn't there at all, or isn't so thin compared to everything else, and fix up the perspective
<nothlit> other than that you might want to play with the inkscape filters and get a subtle inset effect
<_MMA_> Dropping the outline almost made it disappear so I was looking at making it thicker to better match the weight of the background.
<lassegul> i keep focusing on the black vertical line in the middle with all the details, probably where the original photo has its focus.
<kwwii> hi guys
<lassegul> maybe keeping the detail/focus a little more even?
<lassegul> hi
<kwwii> _MMA_: my favrorite of those two is test2.resized.png
<_MMA_> Hi lassegul, kwwii.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Don't think it's too "brand-heavy"?
<kwwii> _MMA_: probably but it does look better than the other version :-)
<kwwii> _MMA_: I really liked the work you did with the head of the amp
<kwwii> the speaker mesh alone seems to simple for a wallpaper
<kwwii> perhaps you could move the logo down into the bottom right and not perspectively scale it
<kwwii> so that the logo is directly on the blue part without the mesh
<kwwii> in case anyone is interested I am working on 3 blueprints on launchpad and the corresponding wiki pages
<kwwii> hardy-icon-theme, art-team, and hardy-theme (launchpad blueprint names)
<_MMA_> Yeah. I did that also. Still tinkering with that ides also. :)
<_MMA_> Thing is, since Im doing the work now, I'll be reluctant to give up the idea later. I want others to contribute but Im bored now and wanna work. :)
<kwwii> yeah, getting contribution in so far in advance seems to be our downfall
<kwwii> everyone wants to contribute at the last minute once they have seen the work of others
<kwwii> but by that time the work is almost done, the ideas are solid and most of the new stuff does not fit
<_MMA_> Thats why Im *trying* to just throw out ideas, but I like the ideas and wanna go with them. :)
<kwwii> yeah, I know the feeling
<nothlit> _MMA_: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/speakersubtle.png
<nothlit> something like that, if you use the svgs you can make the effect more sophisticated but i just threw what was on the wiki together in layers
<nothlit> =/ darn, the perspective is off on that
<_MMA_> nothlit: Sure. I got he idea.
<_MMA_> *the
<nothlit> anyways, you guys have a strong image now, i don't think make people search for the branding a bit is a bad idea at all
<nothlit> making*
<kwwii> actually, I would argue that the wallpaper is a poor place for explicit branding
<_MMA_> Thing is I gotta keep the style right. While I get your idea I cant use that photo.
<_MMA_> Its too real.
<kwwii> and has way too much detail anyway, I think
<_MMA_> Heah. I like the image but I gotts get close the that "photocopied" look.
<_MMA_> s/gotts/gotta
<kwwii> right
<nothlit> head in whatever direction you feel is right! :)
<_MMA_> This SVG with the Marshal head is KILLING my RAM.
<_MMA_> I need another GB stick.
<kwwii> that is one of the biggest problems with inkscape
<kwwii> makes it hard to be creative when you are limited in the size of the SVG
 * _MMA_ has forgot how to mess with perspective in Inkscape.:-/
<_MMA_> kwwii: Yeah. Im working with a full-size 2560x1600 image.
<nothlit> _MMA_: theres the perspective plugin as long as you're only modifying one path
<kwwii> I am not sure that you can scale perpectively in inkscape
<nothlit> theres a youtube video on it, this guy has inkscape howto's as part of his blog
 * _MMA_ wishes he could be the sabdfl of GIMP/Inkscape.
<kwwii> hrm, that plugin does not seem to work in Gutsy
<nothlit> do you have all the python math plugins needed?
<_MMA_> And what happened to the shadow plugin that I was once upon a time?
<_MMA_> s/was/saw
<kwwii> nothlit: which python math plugins?
<_MMA_> (man Im dyslexic)
<kwwii> ahhh python-numpy
<nothlit> not sure, but svn has offset+ blur +combine
<nothlit> you can create a filter for that
 * _MMA_ wonders if python-numpy should be made a depend.
<kwwii> great that we install a package with plugins listed in the menu which do not work without installing things per hand
<nothlit> recommend perhaps
<nothlit> not depends
<_MMA_> Yeah. That's better.
<nothlit> doesn't the error output tell you which one you need?
<kwwii> all it says some crytpic stuff and then "numpy is not installed"
<nothlit> _MMA_: http://ryanler.wordpress.com/2007/08/08/156/
<nothlit> he actually doesn't do it in one filter, you can run combine instead of duplicating i think
<kwwii> I got it to work but I cannot say I understand it
<kwwii> you should see the perspective scaling tool in illustrator
<kwwii> it simply rocks
<kwwii> one reason I still use it
<_MMA_> nothlit: Wow. Thats a nice page.
<nothlit> _MMA_: this should help you understand whats going on http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#AnExample
<nothlit> _MMA_: and some of the other docs http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Filter_Effects
<troy_s> perspective in inkscape merely requires a little understanding of a matrix.
<kwwii> lol, that is exactly what an artist has
<kwwii> nothing like making things more complicated to hinder the artistic process
 * kwwii is off for a while...
<_MMA_> Later.
<troy_s> well... having studied art... i know a few people who do.
<kwwii> it is my sons' 10th birthday, time to watch him open presents
<troy_s> *sigh*
<_MMA_> Yay \o/ 10. :)
<troy_s> 10 is a pretty crazy age.
<troy_s> one part kid one part teenager... its the monster from the creek.
<troy_s> lol
<_MMA_> :D
<troy_s> most artist would probably just draw perspective anyways... ;)
<kwwii> yeah, that was going to be my first suggestion
<kwwii> my wife took him to the doctor because he got pimples..the doctor told her "well, puberty is starting" - I think she almost fainted
<kwwii> anyway../me is out for a while
<_MMA_> lol
<mhb> evening folks
<mhb> kwwii: who are the voices behind pushing Human away?
<kwwii> mhb: nobody in particular, why do you ask?
<mhb> kwwii: I would like to discuss it
<mhb> and/or read about their opinion
<nothlit> mhb: start up a discussion on the mailing list
<nothlit> timelag will create a lot of redundancy here
<mhb> nothlit: okay.
<kwwii> mhb: the main reasons behind the idea are 1) it is looking somewhat stale and 2) it does not fit with the gnome and tango icons
<_MMA_> kwwii: Can you get me a macro shot of a head/needle playing a record?
<kwwii> _MMA_: sure, if I had a record player :p
<_MMA_> :(
<kwwii> _MMA_: I could head to a store tomorrow and take a pic
<kwwii> I'll bring my gear to boston as well so if you want any photos bring stuff with you
<_MMA_> If you have the time. needle on the right if possible.
<_MMA_> Yeah. Im sure I could find a indie record shop with a player.
<kwwii> if nothing else we could do it then
<kwwii> so you want the arm coming from the left or the right?
<_MMA_> Right.
<kwwii> gotcha
<kwwii> I'll see what I can do
<_MMA_> Something like this maybe. Probably closer. http://www.ewsaunders.com/images/recordplaying.jpg
<_MMA_> More record than arm but with the record out of focus.
<kwwii> right, my macro lense is really good at creating a very shallow depth of field
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> I have to go downtown anyway so I'll stop by the local indie record shop and see if they'll let me take a pic
<kwwii> pretty sure they won't have a problem with it
<_MMA_> Naa... Not usually.
<kwwii> I find that if you offer to give the shop a copy they are happy to help
<mhb> kwwii: hmm, it seems you are one of the ubuntu-art-pkg. If I created a script resizing icons (similar to the one you did for Oxygen) would you merge those icons?
<mhb> speaking of human-icon-theme, of course
<kwwii> mhb: as long as we do not modify any of the existing icons and reduce their quality, sure
<mhb> kwwii: no, it's just for the non-existent ones
<kwwii> right, I thought that but just wanted to be sure I said it :-)
<kwwii> also, we would not want to include something of obviously poor quality - some of the svgs might not render well at all sizes
<kwwii> so you'll probably have to go through and eyeball them all
<kwwii> mhb: btw, the plan for the new icons is not written in stone (yet) so there is also a chance that we would simply update the existing icons are such
<mhb> mhm
<mhb> I still kind of like the idea of a computer interface for Humans, which goes well with the basics of Ubuntu and the ubuntu philosophy and all
<mhb> also going Tango would make us more like SLED .o)
<mhb> we'll see about what the majority thinks
<nothlit> no distro has domain over tango
<mhb> no, that was a semi-joke
<mhb> nothlit: the serious part is well described in your comment too - no distro has domain over tango, or more precisely, no distro can have an original look and feel with it
<mhb> and whether we like it or not, we want Ubuntu to compete with other distributions, too - and having a "different" GNOME than others is a part of that
<kwwii> mhb: well put
<kwwii> wow, this filter effects interface is pretty nice
<_MMA_> Is that the one nothlit was talking about?
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah
<kwwii> for someone who knows a bit of what they are doing it is very *effect-ive
<kwwii> *
<_MMA_> WTF? Why does "python-numpy" have the depends it does?
<_MMA_> -dev packages? gcc3.4base?
<_MMA_> 12.4mb worth of new packages.
<_MMA_> nothlit: And "python-numpy" is already a "Recommend" of Inkscape. :)
<nothlit> :)
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, I was wondering the same thing
<nothlit> kwwii: do you know the name of the community artwork package?
<kwwii> nothlit: nope, I have not made it yet :p
<kwwii> I was going to take care of that tomorrow
<nothlit> oh lol
<kwwii> probably something like gutsy-community-wallpapers
<nothlit> i was trying to recommend it to people who were looking for more than the default
<kwwii> :p
<nothlit> oh ok, thanks
<kwwii> after I create the package it will still take a bit of time before it appears in universe
<kwwii> but I will do that asap
<kwwii> tomorrow is my last day of work before next week so I have to get it done by then
<nothlit> if you haven't made the package, i have aspect ratio versions here, plus a faded edge one for 4:3 and 16:9 https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/wallpapers/  if you feel the need to supply that sort of thing
<nothlit> also a few more people have put stuff on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Gutsy (top and bottom)
<kwwii> right, that is why I waited until Gutsy was released to make the package
<nothlit> ahh
<kwwii> that and the fact that I had hoped that someone would help :-)
<nothlit> snagging developers all the way out here is hard lol
<kwwii> the funny thing is that if you talk to developers about things they always say "sure, we would love to help" but when you really need help none are to be found
 * kwwii is off for the night
<_MMA_> Later
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-24
<_MMA_> Too dark/scary? http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Misc/winged_angel_ubuntustudio.png :)
<_MMA_> (not final just a idea)
<nothlit`alpha> _MMA_: i would stay away from that sort of imagery unless emo/goth/troubled artists are your main userbase
<_MMA_> nothlit: Not "main" but part of. It says "rock" to me. And why do they have to be "troubled"? :)
<kwwii> _MMA_: might be a bit too devilish for default but the style of it is really nice
<kwwii> troy_s: can you give me larger versions of your gutsy wallpapers so that I can put them in the package?
<kwwii> lassegul: which one of your springer pics would you like to include in the package?
<nothlit> _MMA_: its a bit dark... bat wings, dark angel, skull, tortured pose, mockery of religious imagery
<nothlit> fine for the rebel crowd but people who want may want to use uS professionally would be turned off imo
<nothlit> lassegul: give him the dark background version! :D
<_MMA_> nothlit: Thing is, the "pro crowd" I feel wont like our concept anyway. I'm not trying to put this in. Just a fun idea. ;)
<nothlit> _MMA_: i don't know, if you give them something that makes them feel like a rebel without being too devilish :P
<kwwii> _MMA_: I think that if the image itself was a bit "nicer" the style is perfect and it would work well
<nothlit> regardless, while you don't ever have to aim for that crowd i wouldn't turn them off
<nothlit> how much say does canonical have over your art direction?
<_MMA_> F'em. I wanna be scary!! rrraawwww!!!!!
<_MMA_> Canonical has 0 say in our art direction.
<kwwii> :p
<_MMA_> :D
<kwwii> now you know why the kubuntu artwork is so much more fun for me
<_MMA_> Yep.
<kwwii> hey joe, where you going with that gun in your hand
<_MMA_> lol.
<_MMA_> (like he hasnt heard and I havnt said, that 100 times) :)
<kwwii> wait till my son figures out why I named him joe :p
<_MMA_> :D
<_MMA_> kwwii: Because you like Joe Piscopo?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Though this image is a little creepy it looks really cool on screen. :)
<kwwii> _MMA_: lol, exactly
<_MMA_> ;)
<kwwii> _MMA_: are you still interested in that pic we talked about yesterday?
<_MMA_> Totally.
<kwwii> cool, I am going to head out and see what I can do
<kwwii> bbl
<_MMA_> Cool. :)
<lassegul> hi people
 * _MMA_ waves.
<lassegul> kwwii: the dark version is the best imo. Can I send it to at 16:00 UTC? Connection trouble at home etc..
<lassegul> kwwii: or do you need itnow?
 * _MMA_ now realizes that not having a swap partition when exporting to bitmap large .SVGs was a bad idea.
<mhb> kwwii: hmm, I am not happy to see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyIconTheme
<mhb> Human had really a lot of potential ... it was the one thing I always liked about Ubuntu, when I started using it, the icon seemed so nice
<mhb> (it was around Dapper I think)
<mhb> stupid USA not giving me a visa ... now I cannot be there discussing it
<mhb> :o(
<kwwii> mhb: sorry for that, but we will be online as well
<mhb> kwwii: right, I hope I can make it, its quite hard because of the time zone changes
<nothlit> sabdfls in the classroom right now, anyone gonna ask him about artwork direction, whether he would hire a design firm and give them full creative control etc?
<kwwii> nothlit: I don't see that happening
<mhb> the original Human icons were creatd that way, werent they?
<mhb> but I think if they have kwwii they wont hire a firm for the artwork
<mhb> .o)
<kwwii> they were created by one artist at a company
<nothlit`alpha> the point is to ask as to make the issue more apparent rather than actually get it =p
<kwwii> we are looking for artists
<kwwii> nothlit: yes, but saying it like that sounds like I am doing a bad job :p
<nothlit`alpha> IconFactory, same guys that do xp/vista/norton i think, etc
<_MMA_> "kwwii: we are looking for artists" Arent we all? :) I just dont see any one or two people being able to step up and do it. :(
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, finding a good artist is the hardest part
<kwwii> but luckily we are also willing to pay someone when we find them
<kwwii> but even then, finding someone to pay to work on linux is hard
<_MMA_> kwwii: Thing is, finding someone and delivering the work to me in a 6 month period is a tall order.
<kwwii> _MMA_: yepp, no doubt
<darkmatter> burp!
<kwwii> _MMA_: I am working on the pics I took today, any specific ideas or should I send you thumbnails first so that you can get an idea first?
<_MMA_> Thumbs are cool.
<_MMA_> Im up for anything. :)
<kwwii> they look pretty cool in black and white, not sure about the color
<kwwii> I went to two stores and took pics of two players...it was somewhat hard as they were all under counters, etc
<_MMA_> Ahh....
<kwwii> all in all I have 50 pics but many of them are very similar, only slight differences in angle, depth of field, etc
<kwwii> and the store with the nice looking (and clean) player only let me put "the police - synchronicity" on it :p
<_MMA_> Cool. I trust you to weed through them. Maybe thumb the ones you think are good and host them somewhere so I can peek.
<_MMA_> Awesome. :)
<_MMA_> kwwii: You should be in #ubuntu-classroom now.
<_MMA_> Oh well. Might be over now.
<kwwii> _MMA_: what did I miss in #ubuntu-classroom?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Just a art question.
<_MMA_> "QUESTION: not to be critical but speaking of default themes are there any thoughts or plans to do a really professional and attractive default theme - something to rival the "other" OSs?"
<kwwii> hehe, like someone would answer "no, we want it to look crappy"
<kwwii> man, scaling 50 pics down to 400x400 from 12MP takes quite a while
<nothlit> are you using RAW as well?
<_MMA_> Personally I do when I can.
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> I only use raw
<_MMA_> Theres a nice Nautilus script that will resize pics.
<_MMA_> I cant remember if it does RAW though.
<kwwii> my camera is so new that nothing supports it raw format except proprietary apps
<_MMA_> Really? RAW isnt Raw?
<kwwii> I have bibble pro for linux but I still likke lightroom better :p
<kwwii> _MMA_: nope, several companies (the ones with the best cameras) use a proprietary raw format
<kwwii> sony, canon, nikon, fuji, etc
<_MMA_> bah
<kwwii> _MMA_: by the way, I talked to a friend of mine who owns a guitar shop. I thought about popping over there tomorrow and taking some pics
<_MMA_> Ubuntu Studio just ships ufraw and gimp-ufraw. Should we do something like rawstudio instead?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Awesome. Go for it. :)
<nothlit> yeah raw is kinda proprietary, thats why each version of photoshop gets more/new raw support
<kwwii> rawstudio looks pretty cool
<kwwii> seems to support quite a bit of formats
<_MMA_> Im just unsure of the best "free" way to support RAW.
<kwwii> I have tried the ufraw gimp stuff, works pretty well I guess
<_MMA_> Ok.
<kwwii> gimp itself is simply not set up to edit photos as well as it could
<kwwii> really, you need a special app only for photos
<_MMA_> If I had Mark money... ;)
<_MMA_> Oh! jcastro is on board for finding some rock club/bar in Boston. :)
<kwwii> yeah, thursday night should be a lot of fun
<kwwii> we can finally have that growling contest
<_MMA_> Just hope Jono or I can find something cool.
<_MMA_> lol \m/
<kwwii> _MMA_: where should I send the pics to?
<kwwii> wait, I'll put 'em on my server
<_MMA_> k
<lassegul> finally - i got online again. sending you springer dark now.
<kwwii> lassegul: cool
<kwwii> got it, thanks
<lassegul> kwwii: is it sufficient?
<kwwii> lassegul: definitely, I have also included borders3-1680x.png if it is ok for you
<lassegul> goodie. thx
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> thanks go to you
 * _MMA_ paints a pentagram on the channels floor and tries to invoke the one who is terlmann.
<lassegul> he hasnt been around lately?
<_MMA_> Nope.
<nothlit> probably not for a week or two
<lassegul> only the legend lives on?
<_MMA_> Thankfully.
<lassegul> the great artist with the heart of gold, who acted as a muse for all his friends at #ubuntu-artwork
<_MMA_> :p
<lassegul> that how i will remember him
<_MMA_> Anyone wanna come take a shower with me?
<lassegul> nothlit was saying something about wanting to go
<_MMA_> Going once..
<_MMA_>  twice..
<_MMA_> :)
 * _MMA_ is feeling way too silly atm.
<lassegul> im getting my internet connection back tomorrow :D
<_MMA_> \m/
 * _MMA_ -> shower/food.
<lassegul> glhf
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-25
<troy_s> iPhoto -- which supports most raw formats, uses dcraw.
<darkmatter> I've offically gone insane... -.-
<lapo> hi
<elkbuntu> good to see the artwork wiki space might be a little better organised this time around...
<mhb> hello artwork masters, do you have any recommendations on books or literature (websites, etc) on icon design that may be helpful for beginners?
 * mhb would like to learn more about icon design, but doesn't know where to start
<nothlit> tango.freedesktop.org
<nothlit> kde-artists might have a bit
<nothlit> mhb: are you speaking of general icon design, creating your own theme, or creating application icons that follow tango guidelines???
<nothlit> i would start by learning how to draw, and familiarising yourself with inkscape
<mhb> nothlit: general icon design, I guess
<nothlit> you can open up the svgs and dissect them from the themes and icons that you like
<nothlit> icons can be 80% concept sometimes, depending
<nothlit> besides that, its just knowing how visible things are at small sizes, and scaling etc
<mhb> hmm, learning how to draw would be the hardest thing for me, I guess.
<mhb> thanks for the tips, nothlit
<mhb> are there any Human theme interface Guidelines on the net?
<mhb> icon, especially
<nothlit> human was created entirely by an icon design firm
<nothlit> there are no guidelines that we have for it
<mhb> nothlit: have we asked them about it?
<troy_s> mhb: There are none
<troy_s> mhb: It is the work of exactly one fellow at IconFactory -- and considering that he would take his cues from higher up, you can expect zero as Ubuntu's higher level design is well... non-existent.
<mhb> yummy, reverse engineering
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> mhb: Assuming there is enough of a body of work within the Human iconset to build outwards from.
<mhb> by the way, do you do graphics (in inkscape for example) with tablets?
<troy_s> mhb: Some do.
<troy_s> mhb: Not terribly relevant for 'drawing' if you aren't familiar with illustration etc.  That said, there are many a professional environment (Technicolour for example) that use tablets for ease of workflow (dust removal / touching / etc.)
<troy_s> mhb: Inkscape can be powerful even for the pedantic -- draw a straight line with mouse, twiddle, etc.
<troy_s> mhb: If it works for you -- do it.  The Wacom Bamboo line is very affordable and very good -- in fact at least as good as the Int line minus 512 levels of sensitivity and angle sensitivity (not terribly relevant to most people)
<mhb> evil lags .o)
<nothlit> i only use a mouse in inkscape, but i might be a tad obsessed with clean splines
<nothlit> i think you can have a perfectly good workflow if you sketch on paper before transposing
<troy_s> mhb: You might be interested to try a Bamboo tablet.
<troy_s> mhb: For some, the workflow increases dramatically.  For others, not so much.
<troy_s> mhb: Best off... they won't break your budget.
<mhb> troy_s: thanks!
<mhb> to both of you for the hints
<mhb> do you know if the dholbach's page on icon comparison between human/tangerine/tango is still running?
<nothlit> i would think so
<troy_s> mhb: I fear Daniel has been sucked into a higher level of busy-ness.
<troy_s> mhb: So I wouldn't rely on it too heavily -- heck.  Everyone misses Daniel's day to day help.
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-26
<nothlit> any of you guys who have trouble with composition, this is a nice simple resource to help you out http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71673
<LaPalida> thx :)
<troy_s> nothlit: Phi phi phi... it is why those photos of an unnamed person were so clunky.
<troy_s> nothlit: PHI!
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> or oversimplify down to the rule of thirds. *sigh*
<nothlit> thinking about the 2d placement of the key object in a piece is great, but theres other parts of it too =p
<nothlit> i'd rather people think about it
<troy_s> nothlit: Yes, but in the end, I would probably make a case that people can improve their work threefold simply by abiding by phi.
<troy_s> nothlit: It took the Renaissance to shift the mindset, and we have been living with examples of it everywhere and all around us since.
<troy_s> nothlit: Even more avant-garde composition relies on the principles of standard composition -- albeit in the inverse generally.
<nothlit> troy_s: ok
<nothlit> GOLDEN RATIO EVERYBODY
<troy_s> nothlit: Not the junk Ubuntu CENTERPUNCH HELL
<troy_s> CENTERPUNCH EVERYTHING
<troy_s> yikes.
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> freak
<nothlit> but i do want them to know about other things, then they can get to directionality and values and cool/warm and whatnot =p
<troy_s> nothlit: Well ... let's see... composition, colour, content, context?
<troy_s> nothlit: Something like the five c's but I can't honestly remember the other... or was it four?
<troy_s> lol
<nothlit> i dunno, i discard mnemonic devices once i've internalised things
<troy_s> nothlit: I think I had mnemonic once... took a pill and it went away.
<BHSPitMonkey> nothlit, FIBONACCI NUMBERS
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> Next up:  A Dan Brown novel.
<Madpilot_> s/novel/pile of barely-readable glurge
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1766321024&size=o <-- he he. shall I make my pc bleed till it begs for mercy? :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-27
<elkbuntu> darkmatter, well you already put suse on it...
 * elkbuntu runs and hides
<darkmatter> heh. actually. suse doesnt have nearly as many err... shall we call them "features".. as ubuntu :P
<nothlit> yes, our beloved ubuntu "features"
<troy_s> darkmatter: Swoopy curvey sh*te for all!  Yay!
<darkmatter> lol
<elkbuntu> bah.. he's gone... i cant go on about rpms now :(
<troy_s> elkbuntu: No, but we have swoopy swirly curvey windows 95 stuff!
<kwwii> lassegul: ping?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-28
<msikma> Hi all
<msikma> How's everyone doing?
<msikma> Been a while since I've been here
* kwwii changed the topic of #ubuntu-artwork to: Next team meeting Thursday, Nov. 1st, 15:00UTC
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-20
<Nece228> ubuntu dust should be included by default in intrepid
<Nece228> its highest rated theme in gnome-look, and it looks radically different than the current
<nand> thorwil: hey!
<thorwil> hi nand
<nand> I found a good opportunity for your widget to become famous :)
<nand> http://trolltech.com/developer/pimp-my-widgets-developer-contest/
 * thorwil looks
<thorwil> nand: that's ... interesting. thanks for the info!
<nand> thorwil: will you try to participate?
<thorwil> nand: i have no clue how to work with qt designer and the prices don't interest me one bit :)
<nand> thorwil: I was not expecting the price to be your motivation factor :)
<nand> But well, you have some ideas and will to change our interaction with the UI, it's the occasion to actually show it :)
<nand> Qt is not that hard, their docs is pretty clear. I have seen much worse!
 * thorwil just received his first, or maybe second, fan-mail
<nand> :) kyudo?
<thorwil> nand: guess i should check if that qt stuff is better suited for demos / test implementations than py-gtk, anyway. atm, i'm a bit swamped, though
<thorwil> nand: no, countdown banner
<nand> eheh
<thorwil> nand: so far only like 5 people showed actual interest in kyudo
 * nand would really like to have "only" 5 contributor to ideatorrent 
<nand> that's a good start, I'd say!
<thorwil> heh, i said interested, not contributors ;)
<nand> urg
<nand> and did you started something concrete to show to the list? Having some concrete material can help gathering more interested people sometimes
<nand> like your new fans :)
<thorwil> with 5 somewhat competent people, we could run the entire show ...
<thorwil> nand: it's just now in a state where i can move towards something more concrete
<nand> cool!
<thorwil> but i have artwork for wubi and mudlet on my list first. interest might heat up after intrepid release, anyway
<nand> indeed
<thorwil> nand: how are things going for you?
<rsc--> hi folks
<thorwil> hi rsc--
<nand> thorwil: soso, work is not that interesting, and I don't find time anymore for my online hobbies
<nand> hi rsc--
<nand> hopefully that'll get resolved soon
<thorwil> rsc--: tell you what, you should work on a countdown banner for next release instead of a wallpaper. much more rewarding, no shitty comments at all ;)
<thorwil> nand: the interest of the hobbie part? hope at least the pay is ok :)
<nand> that part is fortunately ok :)
<kwwii> hi rsc--, thorwil, nand
<thorwil> hello kwwii
<nand> heya
<Cimi> kwwii, please update murrine for intrepid
<kwwii> Cimi: I am afraid that it is too late for that kind of change :-(
<kwwii> Cimi: you might want to talk to pitti if you think you can convince him
<Cimi> kwwii, first of all remove any kind of style line in ALL the gtkrcs
<Cimi> so that people won't take those as a base (and spread the style = MURRINE option)
<Cimi> do you know what you've done? you've introduced a broken development snapshot in a distro release
<thorwil> ooh, drama!
<Cimi> thorwil, if people will make themes using the version in intrepid, they will be completely (windows 95 look) in 9.04 or just when murrine will be updated
<Cimi> *completely broken
<Cimi> because the engine does not parse style = MURRINE option
<Cimi> and it won't load
<thorwil> awesome
<Cimi> yeah
<Cimi> expecting a lot of bugreports to your launchpad
<Cimi> *latest update broke my theme*
<Cimi> *updating murrine makes my themes look like...*
<Cimi> etc etc
<kwwii> we just won't update it until intrepid+1
<kwwii> kinda silly to be changing the api anyway
<kwwii> and if I updated it now, all upgraders would say "latest update broke my theme"
<kwwii> in fact, it would break all themes out there, wouldn't it?
<Cimi> kwwii, only dust I guess
<Cimi> you just need to remove that line
<Cimi> but if you wait april 09
<Cimi> there wil be muuuch more themes that will broke
<zniavre> sed -i 's!style[[:space:]]*=[[:space:]]*MURRINE!profile = MURRINE!' /usr/share/themes/DarkRoom/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-21
<thorwil> kwwii: had a look at the get_ubuntu banners? if i hear nothing else, i'll go with Mathews choice of nr. 3
<kwwii> thorwil: yes, I like #3 as well
<kwwii> it seems to be the most well balanced very
<kwwii> version
<thorwil> kwwii: his only concern was that it doesn't look clickable
 * thorwil -> food
<thorwil> plop
<kwwii> thorwil: I guess you could underline the GET to make it look more like a link
<thorwil> kwwii: was my first thought. a bit brutal. i gonna try to give the whole thing a button look
<kwwii> or perhaps add some kind of mouse-cursor-like arrow to say "click here"
<thorwil> kwwii: that was my second thought ;)
<psyke83> kwwii: hey, did you figure out the panel bg thingy?
<kwwii> psyke83: well, I know how set the bg_pixmap but apparently there is no way to tell it to stretch
<kwwii> if I set the pixmap in gtkrc then the gconf stretch setting gets ignored
<kwwii> if I set it all in gconf it works great but people complain that it is too hard to change themes
<psyke83> kwwii: what about the pixmap engine options, then? I think there's overlay_stretch, though I'm not sure if it can do what you want
<kwwii> sometimes I think that if I don't learn how to hack on gnome/gtk we'll never be able to theme the desktop right
<kwwii> psyke83: yeah, I saw that in a couple of themes...not sure if I want to use another engine in the default ubuntu theme though
<psyke83> there's overlay_stretch and stretch options (both booleans)
<kwwii> not sure what that will do to the performance
<psyke83> right...
<psyke83> kwwii: after checking the docs, I'm sure that bg_pixmap is explicitly for tiled images only, unfortunately
<psyke83> perhaps you can work around this problem; make the pixmap exactly 24pt high, and draw it in such a way that the horizontal tiling will not be noticeably (no seams)
<psyke83> *noticeable
<kwwii> psyke83: yeah, but that ruins the whole effect of the pic :-(
<psyke83> damn, too bad... it seems the pixmap engine is your only option then (aside from gconf keys)
<thorwil> did i mention that i believe we are living in the digital stone-age? :)
<kwwii> hehe, no doubt
<ian_brasil__> the gconf gtk_theme on intrepid is set to Human-Clearlooks but there is no entry on /usr/share/themes or .themes for this
<ian_brasil__> how does this work?
 * ian_brasil__ apologizes for possible dumb question
<kwwii> hi ian_brasil__ ...what in the world are you doing working on themeing?
<ian_brasil__> kwwii: hey! if you really want to know working on a book about ubuntu mobile
<ian_brasil__> with a section on theming
<kwwii> ian_brasil__: wow, sounds really cool
<kwwii> ian_brasil__: if you need any info feel free to send me a personal email
<ian_brasil__> kwwii? ok, i will do...gtk themes are a bit confusing IMO
<zniavre> good evening / bonsoir
<thorwil> good evening zniavre
<zniavre> i m looking for theming notification do you know where it's possible to change the human look notification ?
<zniavre> > /apps/notification-daemon/theme  if i just point to my gtkrc it change nothing
<lucazade> try theme "Standard"
<kwwii> zniavre: the colors and such are defined in the gtkrc
<zniavre> via wich widget the notification are defined?
<zniavre> (sorry my english i am a bit french
<kwwii> zniavre: erm, I take that pack...it takes the colors from the gtkrc (bg and fg) but nothing else in the gtkrc
<kwwii> I was thinking of the tooltips
<zniavre> thank you
<zniavre> some body knows how to restart notification-daemon ?  :-[
<thorwil> kwwii: http://xs432.xs.to/xs432/08432/get_8_10_02879.png
<kwwii> wow, there are no longer drivers for my graphics chip to enable compiz
<kwwii> what a major regression
<kwwii> thorwil: I prefer the second...looks nice
<kwwii> although the underlined GET does say "click me" more than the second
<kwwii> but the second is prettier :p
<thorwil> kwwii: good, thanks. over in #ubuntu-website the overworked newz still worries it won't be taken as link
<thorwil> kwwii: i would lean towards 2A , but 1A (need both to take the place of each countdown banner series)
<thorwil> arg, 1C, of course
 * thorwil wonders how many friggin bug notifications he saw today for that panel bg
 * thorwil pushes latest work on the wubi window
<thorwil> good night!
<kwwii> yeah, time for sleep
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-22
 * Hobbsee waves
<Hobbsee> no one's interested in making an icon, apparently?
<thorwil> waving means "is anyone interested in making an icon?"?
<Hobbsee> thorwil: no, but apparently you guys got asked before :)
 * thorwil suspects he missed something
<Hobbsee> anyway, it'd be really cool if someone felt like making an icon for system-cleaner
<Hobbsee> me too - i can't find it on your art list either, but i'm told it's been done.
<Hobbsee> it doesn't have an icon, and looks rather sad with all the other things in the menu that *do* have icons
<thorwil> i don't recall such a request on the list and usually i do pay attention there
<Hobbsee> oh well.  Not trying to throw any blame around.  It's just what I'd been told, so thought had probably happened.
<thorwil> well, my todo list is too long already and recently it didn't look like anyone else on the list is willing / up to working on requests :/
<andreasn> Hobbsee: what app is that, is there a website/wiki page somewhere?
<Hobbsee> andreasn: the app is system cleaner, it's on a default ubuntu intrepid install
<andreasn> oh, I need to check that out then.
<Hobbsee> not sure on a wiki page, etc.
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CleanupCruft
<Hobbsee> ah ha.  I knew there should be one somewhere, i was just searching for the wrong things.
<thorwil> good evening rsc-
<rsc-> hi thor
<__mikem> I have a question. When ever you click on a drop down menu, a box appears around that item, and another box appears below that item for all the sub items, theres a line where the two boxes touch eachother that I want to remove so that it looks more like a tab. How do I do that?
<thorwil> __mikem: i would guess that current theme engines simply don't allow that
<__mikem> thorwil, are you sure :(
<Cimi> __mikem, menus and menubar are into two different -windows-
<Cimi> you can't do such thing without an hack
<Cimi> currently only the experience engine support this
<__mikem> the experience engine? Whats that?
<Cimi> it's a pixmap engine
<__mikem> Is it possible to install it?
<Cimi> sure
<__mikem> Is it stable?
<__mikem> http://imagebin.ca/view/FJgMzF7.html <--- it would be really cool if the menus looked like this
<__mikem> What package is experience in?
<Cimi> http://benjamin.sipsolutions.net/screenshots/menu-hack/1.png
<lucazade> +1 for menu hack
<__mikem> so where can I download it?
<lucazade> it looks pretty :)
<Cimi> http://benjamin.sipsolutions.net/debian/pool/main/g/gtk-engine-experience/
<Cimi> http://benjamin.sipsolutions.net/debian/pool/main/g/gtk2-themes-experience/
<__mikem> the thing is complaining about a conflict with libgtk2.0-0
<Cimi> you should need to recompile it, then
<Cimi> search for experience on that website
<__mikem> I hate compiling these things :(
<__mikem> lucazade, how do I do the menu hack?
<lucazade> never tried so far
<lucazade> sorry no idea
<thorwil> kwwii: hi! http://xs432.xs.to/xs432/08433/get_8_10_02206.png
 * __mikem wishes there was a graphical gtk theme editor. I can't make heads or tails ofthe gtk theme scripts
<kwwii> __mikem: you and me both :p
<kwwii> thorwil: hrm, the pill, although it looks like a button is still not my favorite
<kwwii> thorwil: I still think 1 or 2 is better
<kwwii> and in any case I like the dark ones best
 * kwwii goes to band practice
<thorwil> kwwii: no opinion on the latest addition from mathew yet
<thorwil> kwwii: urgs, have fun! :)
<kwwii> will do...see you
<__mikem> I am trying to try the themes that came with this eXperience theme engine, but every tiem I select one, this message appears saying "This theme willnotlook as intendedbecause the required GTK+ theme 'eXperience- ice' is not installed
<__mikem> But I installed the theme packages
<__mikem> Is there any way to remove borders completely from drop down menus?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-23
<thorwil> kwwii: hi! i told Matthew that your prefer row 2 of the get_ubuntu banners and that's what he will go with (also since he likes the embossed spiral dots :). plan is to put them in place 2 weeks after launch
 * thorwil -> dinner
<thorwil> plop
<thorwil> =8-[]  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/16279896/logoSUlight.png
<kwwii> thorwil: cool, sounds good :-)
<kwwii> thorwil: he should just listen to us :p
<thorwil> heh
 * thorwil recommends "A sad sad song" from http://www.blender.org/community/blender-conference/festival/
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-24
<bersace> kwwii: hi
<bersace> did you remark that the usplash progress bar is still old Human ?
<bersace> but hey, that's just one more inconsistency in Ubuntu artwork :/
<kwwii> Cimi: ping?
<Cimi> kwwii, wonna play some ping-pong?
<Cimi> pong!
<kwwii> hehe
 * karmaferit gets the pingpong table
<Cimi> karmaferit, ping!
<karmaferit> Pong!
<Cimi> smash!
<karmaferit> **ambulance**
<Nece228> hello
<Nece228> cool, gnome finally supports transparent panel background with picture in one time without compositing enabled
<xivulon> I am 1 click away to launch the wubi banner campaign
<xivulon> you guys have insider advantage :)
<xivulon> here is the announcemente text: http://paste.ubuntu.com/62081/
<xivulon> comments/contributions welcome
<xivulon> thorwil: any luck with the web design?
<thorwil> xivulon: slow progress on the window graphic
<thorwil> xivulon: https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/wubi/artwork
<xivulon> thorwil np, but keep in mind that ideally I should change the website design by release date
<thorwil> yes, shouldn't be a problem
<xivulon> ahh cool
 * thorwil -> dinner
<xivulon> here we go: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=957543
<b_mind> xivulon: where do you plan run banner? adsense, yahoo and adcenter ?
<Cimi> kwwii, did you remove the style = MURRINE line?
<kwwii> Cimi: it was already removed in the human theme
<kwwii> we changed it to profile and I commented that out a while ago
<Cimi> kwwii, darkroom?
<kwwii> if I understood it correctly we only need to profile if we use the new engine
<Cimi> dust? kin?
<Cimi> all those themes are broken here
<Cimi> both profile and style is useless if you don't use it
<kwwii> Cimi: but that is with the new engine, right?
<Cimi> kwwii, yes
<Cimi> but remove it or people will start doing modifications to those themes
<Cimi> and publishing them
<kwwii> ok, i noticed it is still in the darkroom theme, I will remove that (since I am uploading new changes tomorrow morning to remove the panel bg anyway
<Cimi> result is having 200 broken themes in hardy+1
<kwwii> Cimi: the community themes package will have to wait for an update shortly after release
<kwwii> the only reason I get to upload the change for the human-theme package is because of the panel bg issue
<infinito> hellp
<infinito> hello :)
<infinito> does anyone here the directive to change ina  gtkrc file to get color on the top of the notebook tabs?
<infinito> wow, very bad english...
<b_mind> infinito, right now I'm looking the same widget name
<infinito> hehehe
<b_mind> want to make dark tabs in Dust theme
<infinito> i wanted to give a little color to the DarkRoom theme
<b_mind> please give me to know if you find some info
<infinito> and do you know about this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-artwork/+bug/288851 ??
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 288851 in ubuntu-artwork "[DarkRoom] Can't read what I'm typing while renaming a file" [Undecided,New]
<b_mind> infinito: check GtkNotebook, in there you can configure tabs
<infinito> well, i've got it, adding engine "clearlooks" {} to the notebook definition worked
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-25
<thorwil> grrr. made the mistake to look into the forum again. smartboyathome: "Mark came out with his goons late in the art cycle, and said that we (the community) no longer work on the default themes, his people do. So I am kind of saddened that Mark doesn't use community themes, but there ARE a lot of program-related bugs with the themes that need fixing first"
<thorwil> "Community can only do so much and have it be professionally, and while I do agree with Mark saying that his people should do the default artwork, I do not agree with him saying that we shouldn't try to make artwork which is good enough for default."
 * karmaferit hopes they don't smudge orange over everything like the human icons
<thorwil> karmaferit: just to be very clear. the point is that what smartboyathome writes is not quite correct
<thorwil> the forum suffers from this kind of rumors and half-truths quite a lot, i think
<karmaferit> thorwil: oh i imagine so
<karmaferit> pitty that the artwork is in limbo though
<karmaferit> fedora never has this issue
<thorwil> kwwii: seen http://anotherubuntu.blogspot.com/?
 * thorwil summons rsc
<kwwii> thorwil: nope, didn't see that yet
<kwwii> he told me he was making some stuff, never saw it though
<kwwii> he is the guy who made the sounds for intrepid (which I had to remove)
<thorwil> kwwii: also the one who made reasonable countdown banners and who is involved with the 8.10 start page and the wanted project, i think
<thorwil> sebastian strikes again :)
<kwwii> :-)
<Cimi> kwwii, why you had to remove those sounds
<Cimi> they are amaxing
<kwwii> Cimi: apparently they are very close to vista
<kwwii> but they are still on my system :p
<kwwii> and in my ppa I might add
<kwwii> mads had contact with another guy who has done a work for big-time cell phone companies, he wants to make sounds for +1
<kwwii> hopefully someone who has worked for samsung and nokia can make something mark likes :p
 * karmaferit always thought it was odd that mark has the final say when it comes to the artwork, is he qualified in any way?
<thorwil> kwwii: sure, if he can make it sound orange and glossy ;)
<thorwil> karmaferit: he has the money ... ;)
<kwwii> lol
<karmaferit> golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rule
<kwwii> karmaferit: in our new team we also have a new boss (also from a big company and with lots of experience)
<karmaferit> good to hear :)
<kwwii> so in the future mark will no longer deal with details, which should allow us more freedom
<kwwii> I'll be joining the new team sometime early next month...can't wait!
<thorwil> kwwii: the boss is from which field?
<thorwil> will the desktop team cease existance?
<karmaferit> well that is good, ubuntu's artworks been rather embarrassing compared to fedora's and suse's (SLED)
<kwwii> thorwil: he was the lead creative director for Orange
 * thorwil giggles
<kwwii> thorwil: no, we are forming a new team which only concerns artwork (platform and marketing)
<thorwil> orange!
<kwwii> no more micro-managing-millionares :p
<karmaferit> kwwii: how bad is it having him manage things?
<kwwii> although I have been offered to decide whether to work on that team as platform artwork lead or to switch to our new desktop-experience team and do more technical work
<kwwii> karmaferit: hard to explain and keep my job :p
<karmaferit> ok whos the one that likes the orange
<thorwil> karmaferit: from what little insight i have, i'd say a big problem is that Mark is only available in small slices. yet is required for decisions
<thorwil> kwwii: oh, all the time i thought the experience team is also about artwork
<kwwii> thorwil: nope, the experience team is about developing new desktop tech
<kwwii> thorwil: that sums up the problem exactly
<thorwil> kwwii: a shame. thought it was a holistic approach, taking the term experience quite literal :)
<kwwii> thorwil: yes it is but not on an artwork level
<kwwii> this is really about developing totally new thing for the desktop
<kwwii> new ways of using your computer, etc
<kwwii> lots of super-secret stuff :p
<thorwil> bwaha :)
<thorwil> greet _MMA_ from me if he shows up here :)  good night!
<kwwii> _MMA_ !!!!!!
<_MMA_> yo yo
<kwwii> _MMA_: how's life, man? good, I hope!
<kwwii> I'd add a funny mexican saying but I guess you have heard enough of that language lately :p
<_MMA_> kwwii: I'm doing fine. 1 more week in Mexico.
<kwwii> bet you can't wait to get home, eh?
<_MMA_> Si
<_MMA_> :P
<kwwii> ;)
<_MMA_> Neither can my wife. ;)
<kwwii> lol, I bet
<kwwii> better have someone watch the kids for day or two after your return
<_MMA_> Already taken care of. :P
<kwwii> being away from home probably makes her appreciate you even more
<kwwii> good to see that you still have enough strength and will to spend time in stupid art chat :p
<_MMA_> No. She knows why I'm the best. :) She just likes me a whole lot and wants me home.
<kwwii> good for you ;-)
<kwwii> maybe I should go to mexico as well :p
<_MMA_> Well I get off @noon on Saturdays. No work Sunday. 1 more 60hr week.
<_MMA_> I get back to Raleigh next Saturday.
<_MMA_> On Sunday or Monday I hope to get some art done.
<kwwii> well, I got emails from mark this morning asking me if I look at the bug list and expecting changes so I deal with the same stuff, really
<kwwii> only I don't sweat that much at work :p
<_MMA_> I think I've lost 10lbs.
<kwwii> I can imagine
<kwwii> it would be good for me :p
<_MMA_> Somewhat due to less eating. Im scared of getting sick from something I would eat.
<kwwii> actually, I have lost quite a few pounds in the last months
<kwwii> thank god
<_MMA_> Maybe I'll see at the next UDS. (not MTV)
<kwwii> that sucks
<kwwii> not seeing you in ca, I mean
<_MMA_> I told Jono that this one was a no-go because of work.
<kwwii> fair enough...real life comes first
<kwwii> I wish I could say that
<_MMA_> One of my 1st things I'll be doing is a product manual. In addition to learning AutoCAD.
<kwwii> hehe, if you need any help with AutoCAD let me know...I have a lot of experience with it
<_MMA_> I just might. I gotta look at classes as well.
<kwwii> I learned drafting the hard way first and then did CAD
<kwwii> one or two good classes will really help
<kwwii> it is not hard, there are just some basic ideas you need to understand first
<kwwii> when I went back to college (after flunking out on my scholarship to study music) I started doing a two-year degree in drafting, from which I sprung to a four year degree in engineering
<_MMA_> killer :)
 * _MMA_ goes to eat lunch. bbs.
<kwwii> bueno appetito
<b_mind> I'm learning gtkrc syntax and trying to customize some application via gtkrc file, for now I found how to customize Gedit - widget_class "*edit*" ... but next what I need is gnome-terminal how can i find name of widget_class for gnome terminal? can somebody help me?
<b_mind> or maybe someone know if I have application, how could I find out all it gtk structure... maybe there is some tool for analyzing bin file and show GTK tree or smth?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-26
<thorwil> good morning!
<nand> good moorning!
<b_mind> hey guys, does somebody knows hot to change tabs background here http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=terminalik3.png without modifying background of all GtkContainer ?
<thorwil> _MMA_: welcome, sir!
<_MMA_> Yo
 * _MMA_ will be around for a good part of the day today. (Is his last weekend in Mexico)
<thorwil> _MMA_: i wonder, have you had a listen to severed fifth?
<_MMA_> thorwil: I am a friend of Jonos. :) So yes.
<thorwil> hope he will release track-wise, so i can have a play, remix
<thorwil> _MMA_: is it my ears not used to the style or are the guitars a bit raspy?
<_MMA_> They are. It's his tuning I believe. Not as low as you hear now-a-days I believe.
<atwkevin> Hello. =)
<atwkevin> Seems to be quite dead in here.
<thorwil> brains!
<atwkevin> D: ew.
<atwkevin> : D thought i would throw a few things into the hat here.
<thorwil> things? hat?
<kwwii> who's hat?
<atwkevin> Niel Patrick Harris's hat.
<thorwil> at least no throwing hats like odd-job
<kwwii> I only wear hats when it is cold or raining
<atwkevin> anyways, are you all familiar with a program known as apophysis?
<thorwil> nope
<atwkevin> it cranks out some pretty good looking wallpapers from fractals.
<kwwii> cool, you should make some and put them on the wiki with your suggestions
<thorwil> fractals are scary. you never know what's hiding in them a few iterations in!
<atwkevin> http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/vashthstampede98/Apophysis-080905-460.jpg
<atwkevin> www.apophysis.org
<atwkevin> i think... >.>
<thorwil> bah, Freeware editor for Windows
<kwwii> ouch, nasty stuff that "freeware"
<atwkevin> Yeah. I know. Buuuuut it works.
<_MMA_> There's a 100 ways to do them in linux as well. I even think there are GIMP plugins.
<atwkevin> That and it supports 3 cores =_=
<_MMA_> http://s10.invisionfree.com/Raptor_Designs/index.php?showtopic=31
<atwkevin> I see ^^
<kwwii> I must admit that all the stuff I have seen on linux makes pics that look mainly like lots of lines, nothing really nice
<atwkevin> http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/vashthstampede98/Apophysis-080912-34.jpg
<atwkevin> these take around 2 minutes to render across a phenom X3
<thorwil> not exciting at all. unlike http://flowtv.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/fractal.jpg
<atwkevin> That looks as if it were photoshopped :P
<kwwii> the point of the artwork should not just be to find a pretty pic to use...there should also be a whole structure behind why we use it and what we want, etc.
<kwwii> god, I sound like troy
<thorwil> or me
<atwkevin> Haha.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Ha!! :P
<atwkevin> My point in art design is to evoke emotion.
<thorwil> atwkevin: and what would that emotion be for ubuntu?
<atwkevin> i have a lot of almost-finished stuff in Deep Paint.
<atwkevin> And if I were to select an emotion for it, I would select tranquility, yet deep down inside there is a sense of rigidity and prowess.
<thorwil> atwkevin: do you have anything up, online?
<atwkevin> Yeah. lots of almost-there type things. http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/vashthstampede98/middleorb.jpg
<kwwii> any good design should evoke emotion...knowing which emotions you want to evoke is something else
<atwkevin> http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/vashthstampede98/gem1.jpg
<_MMA_> ***kwwii is now known as troy_s
<atwkevin> I think this is my fave, cause it's simple yet dramatic. Hooray colored crystal. http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/vashthstampede98/DSCN0782-1.jpg
<thorwil> Deep Paint must be something than what i thought or I don't see the point in using it here
<thorwil> +else
<atwkevin> i dont understand what you are trying to say ^^;
<thorwil> atwkevin: i'd say the change in contrast is dramatic. but the composition is boring to non-existant and i'm pretty sure i'mnot the only one wondering what the heck that is about or tries to be
<_MMA_> +1
<thorwil> atwkevin: i though Deep paint was for drawing textures right on 3d models. i don't see 3d here
<atwkevin> not the old Deep Paint.
<kwwii> I'd simply say that those works do not evoke any emotion in my other than loneliness and seclusion, perhaps a general feel of "spooky"
<kwwii> and anyway, they have way too much contrast for a wallpaper
<atwkevin> Okay.
<atwkevin> well i guess art is in the eye of the beholder.
<kwwii> definitely
<thorwil> artnay: you are not on the wrong way if you want tranquility
<kwwii> what I just said is my *opinion* not a fact in any way
 * thorwil removes troyness from kwwii 
<thorwil> artnay: though i think ubuntu has to be warm and welcoming, a sense of a lively community and all that
<thorwil> decidedly not mysterious, except maybe for a little tribal touch
<atwkevin> *yawns*
<thorwil> spot on! good night! :)
<_MMA_> Night sir
<atwkevin> heh.
<atwkevin> ack. mount is being annoying again :\
<RyanPrior> Here's a concept: create a set of panoramic images for Intrepid+1 that can act as desktop backgrounds, then set a different subselection of the panorama for each virtual desktop. Then, while switching from one desktop to another, you see the panorama scroll one way or another.
<RyanPrior> That could really wow people.
<_MMA_> Would be best for KDE as you cant do it with GNOME. (not without a patched Nautilus that relies on Compiz anyway)
<BHSPitLappy> RyanPrior, not as impressive as a cube
<RyanPrior> BHSPitLappy: If you did it as a cylinder instead of a cube, it would be just as impressive. (And I think the cylinder looks sweet!)
<RyanPrior> _MMA_: Since we have some development time before Jaunty, we could certainly work with Nautilus to make it happen.
<_MMA_> RyanPrior: As the patch is not currently upstream, there's about a snowballs chance.
<BHSPitLappy> let's do a Dodecahedral desktop
<BHSPitLappy> "It's Dodecawesome!"
<RyanPrior> _MMA_: you're saying that no development work done now will get into Jaunty? That's ridiculous.
<_MMA_> I'm saying that since the current patch is outside GNOME and relies on yet another project outside GNOME, I wouldn't hold my breath.
<BHSPitLappy> it's more complicated when you're asking GNOME to add a whimsical feature for giggles
<RyanPrior> I'm not planning on holding my breath. I asked about it in here hoping to find somebody who would help me take action.
<_MMA_> RyanPrior: We're art-nerds. We do nothing about the underlying tech.
<RyanPrior> BHSPitLappy: pretty is a feature, and Ubuntu/Gnome need things to fuel excitement about their software in a way that "Nautilus now has tabs" doesn't.
<_MMA_> haha.
 * _MMA_ loves the new tabs. ;)
<RyanPrior> _MMA_: I'm a tech nerd and know nothing about creating panoramic images. I figured I might find that bit in an art hangout.
<RyanPrior> The new tabs are great, and we constantly need to have improvements like that, but stuff like this is as importnat.
<_MMA_> RyanPrior: Get the tech squared away and upstream and we'll be happy to help you prettify things.
<BHSPitLappy> yeah
<BHSPitLappy> well, tabs has not been the feature I've been wanting nautilus to have for years
<BHSPitLappy> more like PANES!
 * _MMA_ has wanted to win a 100 million $ lottery for 20 years now.
<kwwii> my life needs tabs
<aantn> kwwii: :)
<_MMA_> Yeah. The instant they showed up I used 'em. That and the compact list view that every other browser has had for years.
<kwwii> with my new computer, I finally started using evolution...it is way behind kmail in functionality
<kwwii> think I will try thunderbird
<kwwii> evolution feels like a windows mail client from 10 years ago
<_MMA_> kwwii: I tried to switch to Epiphany/Evolution. Didn't have the features I wanted. I went back to Thunderbird/FF.
<kwwii> I mean, evo doesn't even have a "next unread" function
<kwwii> everybody praises it like it is the next big thing
<kwwii> makes me so angry I need to listen to the new severed fifth
<kwwii> lol
<_MMA_> \m/
<BHSPitLappy> with tabs in nautilus, can you drag a file onto a tab?
<_MMA_> Yes
<BHSPitLappy> okay, then they're halfway there :P
<BHSPitLappy> but seriously, paned filebrowsers win
<kwwii> how is it that my ati card worked great with compiz in hardy and now no longer finds a driver?
<_MMA_> kwwii: There was some mention of that on other lists. Hit up Ted I guess. Or Bryce.
<kwwii> oh, they'll just tell me it doesn't work
<kwwii> as a normal user it means blah, blah blah
<_MMA_> :P
<_MMA_> Thats why I buy Intel/nVidia. *Never* had an issue.
<kwwii> my thinkpad has intel, it works great
<kwwii> but apparently most nVidia cards have problems with compiz in intrepid as well
<kwwii> I get the bugs on the human theme all day long
<kwwii> some intel cards as well
<_MMA_> My 7950GT works as expected.
<kwwii> I guess nobody reports bugs on that for ati because compiz doesn't work to begin with :p
<_MMA_> Well, as of a month ago anyway.
<kwwii> hehe, don't update!
<kwwii> I guess this will become my first ever windows computer
<_MMA_> oh noes!
<kwwii> replacing my powerbook g4
<kwwii> that has become my mac dvd player
<kwwii> a little more than 10 years working with linux and the problems are still the same
<kwwii> sad, really
<_MMA_> :(
 * _MMA_ heads off to a BBQ. Big steaks and thick cut salmon. Mmmm..
<_MMA_> bbl
<kwwii> enjoy
<kwwii> mesquite, yes!
<kwwii> btw, did dst end in america already?
<_MMA_> dst?
 * _MMA_ saw the message as he walked out the door.
<_MMA_> digital TV?
<_MMA_> Over the air tv?
<kwwii> day light savings time
<_MMA_> ha
<kwwii> daylight savings time
 * _MMA_ doesnt know.
<kwwii> :-)
 * _MMA_ out.
<kwwii> lucazade1 ! nice to see you again!
<kwwii> I think I will greet everyone in the channel like that from now on
<Flannel> kwwii: No, November 2
<kwwii> just to piss everyone off
<kwwii> Flannel: killer, thanks!
<kwwii> in europe is ended yesterday
<kwwii> s/is/it
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-19
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<FLOZz> re/hi _o/
<mrazoun> Hi
<mrazoun> I have a few photos i took myself. I think some of them could look nice as Ubuntu wallpapers. Where I am supposed to send them?
<FLOZz> Bye
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-20
<FLOZz> Hey _o/
<SnackWork> hello
<thorwil> this will be the lead for the "server" tracks at UDS: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-L?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=server.png
<kwwii> thorwil: hey, I talked to clair today...we're rooming together
<knome> kwwii, you're getting a babysitter?
<knome> ;)
<kwwii> hehe, at least when I talk in my sleep I know he'll know what I'm saying ;)
<knome> ;)
<kwwii> I stayed with an italian guy once who would wake up late at night and scream in italian
<knome> haha
<knome> in uds jaunty i stayed with glatzor, a german guy
<knome> i arrived very late in the evening
<mac_v> kwwii: in the end i didnt receive the official invite ... hehe , it saved me the trouble/dilemma of trying to figure out what to do :p
<knome> and we just said hello and i left to bar
<knome> next morning he wakes up and starts talking german
<knome> and i just look at him
<knome> after about 5 sentences i got to say "sorry, i don't know any german..."
<knome> (as i had said to him in irc before uds and the previous night)
<knome> ;)
<knome> then he said "oh, i though you understood as you didn't say anything" :D
<kwwii> ;)
<knome> like, you have just woken up and someone starts speaking german
<mac_v> knome: glatzor , sounds familiar... hmm , does he have a lot of stuff in gnomelook.org?
<knome> how can you immediately react and understand that it's german and you should say you don't understand it
<kwwii> mac_v: I gave my suggestions but they then pick from all the suggestions for 2 people
<mac_v> kwwii: yeah , i realized that ;) /me must have pissed of Mark sometime ;p
<kwwii> mac_v: lol, I doubt that...it was just a matter of having more people than spaces
<knome> mac_v, i suppose not ;)
<knome> mac_v, http://www.glatzor.de/projects/
<mac_v> even his name sounds familiar ... Sebastian Heinlein ... bah.. whatever ;)
<knome> he is a nice guy ;)
 * kwwii heads off to bed, night all
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-21
<FLOZz> Salut !
<knome> que
<FLOZz> Bye.
<mac_v> anyone know the widget_class for open office apps?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-22
<AnAnt> Hello, the network manager connecting icons in Humanity icon theme do not differentiate between the several stages in connection
<AnAnt> the default icons in Network Manager do make the differentiation, hence aid in debugging a connectivity problem
<coz_> hey guys... please tell me that no one here is responsible for the karmic desing especially the boot splash screens
<thorwil> coz_: independent of an evaluation of the boot design, a comment as your's doesn't help in any way. it can only increase frustration. worst of all, it's not even one bit entertaining.
<coz_> thorwil,  I wasnt trying to be entertaining at all..just curious  ...I am on the art team but have not done anything  for some time
<coz_> thorwil,  and the images used for these splashes  are inconsitent with the colors in ubuntu
<coz_> I realize there have been changes in gnome or at least gnome on ubuntu   by eliminating  gdm changes
<thorwil> coz_: suddenly you are heading in a direction where one might find constructive criticism. however, the karmic case is closed. changes pretty much impossible
<coz_> thorwil,  understood  and I am certain I will find a way to change the splash screens here... however you suggestion that my comments "can only increase frustration"  is a bit out of line
<coz_> thorwil,  it was ...after all... a question to see if the team was responisble for the splash screen images
<thorwil> coz_: that's not the question you asked. i'm not interested to play games with you if you can't remember your words 7 lines later
<coz_> thorwil,  ok unfortunaely..without a further explanation of your comments  ...I dont think you and I can communicate properly
<thorwil> "12:28:18 <coz_>	hey guys... please tell me that no one here is responsible for the karmic desing especially the boot splash screens"
<coz_> thorwil,  I already know what I said... to believe that  someone on the team created those images is much more of a frustration than my question could possibly elicit
<thorwil> coz_: so you imply that the work is bad without giving any details why you think so. hence frustration
<coz_> although it wouldnt surprise me that shuttleworth made an independent decision about the images
<coz_> thorwil,  they are inconsistent with ubuntu colors  and imply that the system theme is going to be a dark muddy color
<thorwil> coz_: i wouldn't have complained if you said just that
<coz_> I did
<coz_> thorwil,  and the images used for these splashes  are inconsitent with the colors in ubuntu
<coz_> I said that earlier
<coz_> however I also know that in the past the efforts of the team were ignored by shuttleworth
<coz_> so I was just curious as to who had made the final decision about the art work for splash
<thorwil> ah, there we have it. a question without judgment
<thorwil> coz_: from what i read on lists, Mark still signs off all design decisions, but wants to hand that responsibility over to someone from the team at Canonical
<coz_> glad I could please  but what about an answer ? :)
 * darkmatter yawns sleepily at gtk+
<coz_> thorwil,  oh man that is not good news
<darkmatter> design decisions should be left to designers :)
<coz_> darkmatter, absolutely :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy   how are you :)
 * darkmatter gently pats coz_ hello
<coz_> :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  still the same old story about developers thinking they can design images  lol
<darkmatter> not bad. been sleeping when I should be working, working when I should be sleeping. the usual ;)
<darkmatter> how have you been?
<coz_> darkmatter,  same old...doing much more support than I can handle sometimes...I am not on the cairo dock team so that takes more time and my car had broken down again
<coz_> darkmatter, not to mention my video card blew two capacitors  takeint one monitor and 1 gig of memory along with it
<coz_> darkmatter,  rathe I am on the cairo-dock team now
<darkmatter> coz_: speaking of design. I'm sorta kinda collaborating on something (as in got the initial mockup sources and the rest is in my hand (filling in the gaps, making it 'work')
<coz_> damn fingers
<darkmatter> cool
<coz_> darkmatter,  cool  I assume you finsished those gtk2 themes right?
<coz_> darkmatter,  we havent talked for a while so I just want to be up to date with your efforts :)
<darkmatter> coz_: sorta. thing went a little of course for a while. atm I'm working on breathing life into one of jimmacs designs
<coz_> darkmatter,  ah cool
<darkmatter> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/images/blog/cessna.png
<coz_> darkmatter,  ooo nice and simple and clear I like it :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  is that available right now?  for testing?
<zniavre> yeaahh rounded menu aare lovely
<zniavre> :o)  bonjour / hello
<darkmatter> filled in the gaps for the missing widgets on paper. this weekend I'm starting on the gtk work (murrine/pixbuf)
<coz_> zniavre,  hey guy :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  very very cool
<coz_> darkmatter,  will that theme have color variations?
<darkmatter> coz_: nah.. just got the source svg from jimmac two days ago, been designing the missing bits to 'fit' with the existing file
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh ok darn :)
<darkmatter> coz_: for the most part it should be possible. first on the hitlist is the scrollbars. a lot of overlays to get the stripes going
<coz_> darkmatter,  ok
<coz_> cool
<coz_> darkmatter,  I certainly like the focused and unfocused variations there
<darkmatter> I could easily do recolorable with murrine/experience, but I don't think actualpackages for experience are that common (haven't really seen any), plus no distro has it by default iirc
<coz_> darkmatter,  well  I could go in and edit it manually although that color blue is not too offensive :)
<darkmatter> pixbuf handles recolors to an extent, just not as efficiently imo
<coz_> darkmatter,  well this theme ,,,in my opinion is very attractive
<darkmatter> lus experience would help add some character. you can place multiple image overlays anywhere on a widget with it. so could make for some awesome looking entries etc
<coz_> darkmatter,  are you here more often now?
<darkmatter> coz_: indeed. which is why I got the sources from jimmac. it's gnomish but modern (instead of the traditional gnomish/win95 :P)
<darkmatter> coz_: yeah. almost every morning
<coz_> darkmatter,  exactly .. I find the lines  very nice in that theme
<coz_> darkmatter,  cool  I will have to  set xchat to open this channel automatically then :)
<darkmatter> plus it's a nice soft, slightly warmish grey (I find the grey in clearlooks a little cool/harsh btw)
<coz_> darkmatter,  I agree  but then  you knew that lol
<darkmatter> lol
<coz_> darkmatter,  some day we will prvail  and prevent developers from choosing artwork lol
<darkmatter> hehe
<coz_> darkmatter,  although that may take more effort when it comes to ubuntu.... this team should have final word in the choosing artwork
<darkmatter> going to do a blue variant of the sonar icons to go with it (sonar is basically a high res industrial based on single-canvas git, but green in the monitors etc instead of blue)
<coz_> darkmatter,  well icons are another issue with me.... I have had the same set for nearly a year now and have not found anything as nice for my use  it is the elementary set but the 1.5 version not the 2.0  since that guy completely reivised the set  as to appear as another theme
<coz_> instead of being consistent
<darkmatter> coz_: I generally like the  approach suse takes. submit > review > if it well received its in. it's still 'by committee' but its better than totalitarian decision making :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  well ...that certainly sounds more appropriate for linux in general
<darkmatter> coz_: I like these icons. http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4521/screenshotoh.png   http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3046/screenshot3mj.png
<coz_> darkmatter,  nice... I generally dont like "face on" icons but the slight color variation on those are attractive
<darkmatter> coz_: evolution of the tango style. I'm actually quite pleased by the changes
<coz_> darkmatter,  mm I will have to take a closer look... I think you know I am not a big fan of tango :)
<zniavre> please tell if i m right: i do not like the switch Off button used in gdm (white on white selected bg) is that "normal" ?
<darkmatter> coz_: well... I'm not a big fan of the style (and obviously tango is still present (it should be inherits gnome, but I did an edit because the green goes better :P), but the revisions present in g-i-t and sonar are making it grow on me
<coz_> I have to take leave for a few hours to get the car fixed...
<coz_> darkmatter,   will be back around pm I think
<darkmatter> kk. take care :)
<coz_> you too :)
<mac_v> darkmatter: what is the widget_class for open office apps? i'd trying to finish a dark theme
<mac_v> ?
<darkmatter> mac_v: ummm... sec. I can't remember offhand
<mac_v> any very dark color causes the open office icons to switch to hicontrast icons :/
<darkmatter> nope... thats inkscape widgets... *digs through another file*
<mac_v> is there any app which can help us identify the widget_class in use?
<darkmatter> err.... I know of an 'engine' that can, not sure about an app
<mac_v> darkmatter: engine? i dont mind which does the job ;) ... anything that might help identify the widgets ;)
<darkmatter> sec. grabbing the linky to the 'how to find crap' part
<darkmatter> mac_v: http://benjamin.sipsolutions.net/Projects/eXperience
<darkmatter> quote: "If you set the enviroment variable EXPERIENCE_PRINT_WIDGET_PATH=TRUE the engine will print out all drawing operations to stderr (Loads of output). It prints out the class (and widget) path of the widget that is drawn, and the group used to do this. This is very usefull for tweaking apps. "
<mac_v> darkmatter: hm... sounds awesome , now i have to figure out how it works and stuff ;)
<darkmatter> hehe. it's neat. still learning it
<zniavre> darkmatter, sorry to ask but where is the output of experience engine please?
<zniavre> ha ok
<zniavre> understand
<mac_v> zniavre: which version are you using??
<mac_v> the experimental or... ?
<zniavre> experimental yes
<zniavre> the one from debian repos
<mac_v> ah ...
 * mac_v still scratching head :/
<zniavre> EXPERIENCE_PRINT_WIDGET_PATH=TRUE twf  for exemple
<zniavre> http://art.gnome.org/themes/gtk2/1058    here an experience theme (olive)
<zniavre> what is sad i wanted it to find a widget into gdm panel but i do not find the way to use it
<darkmatter> zniavre: i t prints to stderr, you need run the app with the engine in use from a terminal. it will print the data to the terminal
<darkmatter> as for gdm. which widget?
<zniavre> the "combobox" in panel
<mac_v> darkmatter: the  "EXPERIENCE_PRINT_WIDGET_PATH=TRUE" must be set in the theme?
<mac_v> gtkrc or is it part of the app launcher command
<zniavre> open terminal and type > EXPERIENCE_PRINT_WIDGET_PATH=TRUE twf
<zniavre> if you got widget factory
<zniavre> (sorry to answer)
<mac_v> zniavre: hmm? why sorry?
<darkmatter> those are slaved to gdm panel itself (for color etc). so as far as colors they're set by either  "*GdmGreeterPanel*" or widget "*gdm-user-switch-menubar*" (at least thats the only two I know of currently. both are panel classes in gdm)
<darkmatter> widget "*GdmGreeterPanel*"  <-- typo fixed :P
<zniavre> how did you  find it please?
<zniavre> using experience ?
 * mac_v kicks his connection , crappy speed :/
<darkmatter> nope. they're from the latest revision of Sonar (openSUSE's default)
<mac_v> darkmatter: ah! finally figured out how to use it..! but it seems the ooo uses the "GtkToolbar" argh!
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-23
<Torgerson> Hello
<Torgerson> does anyone talk in here
<ckontros> Torgerson: Alot of folks are from EU in here and it's later on the east-coast of the states. Now is the slow time for the channel.
<mrdoob> hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-24
 * ckontros waves
 * thorwil waves, too
<knome> did somebody pass gas?
<ckontros> thorwil: Posts Fedora's art only reminds me that our community is not in charge. :(
<thorwil> knome: always the one who asks ;)
<ckontros> :P
<knome> thorwil, ;)
<thorwil> ckontros: would the  "community" deserve to be in charge?
<ckontros> thorwil: Why do you have to be a downer? :)
<thorwil> ckontros: afaik Mairin is payed by redhat
<thorwil> ckontros: yeah, i have not much reason to be a downer other than my soul being a bottom-less black tar pit ;)
<ckontros> I do think that saying that "the community" would create the art for [insert release here] at the beginning of the cycle would bring out good folks. I think a big thing is people don't wanna waste their time.
<ckontros> I do understand all sides of the issue. Just is kinda a bummer sometimes.
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> ckontros: you be at UDS?
<ckontros> Unfortunately no. My new job and my monetary situation don't allow it this year.
<thorwil> :/
<ckontros> thorwil: Side note, I've been really happy with dashua's "Hanzo" theme and kwwii's butterfly wallpaper.
<ckontros> I think I've never used 1 look so long.
<thorwil> i'm using a hacked karmic default
<thorwil> couldn't stand the scrollbars screaming for my attention :)
 * thorwil -> lunch
<ckontros> :)
 * thorwil rubs his belly
<psyke83> hi
 * ckontros waves
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-25
<kwwii> ckontros: http://sinecera.de/butch_black.pdf <-- ideas?
<thorwil> kwwii: if i may chime in: "the Butchers" is too wide. I'd try to have a small "and the", to have only "Butchers" to counter "Butch"
<thorwil> also to make the general shape more closed/round
<kwwii> thorwil: yes, good idea
<kwwii> very good, I'll work on that a bit, thanks!
<thorwil> kwwii: the skull should have less sharp shapes (look more like the result of a pen with noticeable width), or the type should have harder edges
 * thorwil hits the shower
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-25
<fargiolas> hi, can anybody tell me how to replace ubuntu logo displayed in gdm greeter?
<fargiolas> I tried putting a distributor-logo icon both in places and apps in my icon theme (both 48 and scalable) but still I get the ubuntu circle
<\home\alex\afk> http://666kb.com/i/bntknwh71rge0tuq6.png
<\home\alex\afk> just created this "sketch"
<\home\alex\afk> whatcha think about it?
<RobOakes> It's very nice.  A new theme for Nautilus?
<\home\alex\afk> it's planned to be
<\home\alex\afk> yet i'm not a coder...
<RobOakes> I can be, though I've never done anything with Nautilus or GTK themes.
<\home\alex\afk> well.. first i wanted to talk to someone with experience in GTK theming
<\home\alex\afk> since i don't know how far this sketch can be realized in gtk
<RobOakes> That would probably be a good first step.  My one biggest piece of feedback would be that there doesn't seem to be much contrast between text in the column and sidebar.
<RobOakes> Probably not a big deal for the columns, but using a lighter shade of gray might be appropriate in the sidebar?  Maybe 20% gray rather than what you've used (looks like 30% or 40%)?
<RobOakes> You could go one or two shades lighter in the column header too.  The gradient you've used is very nice, though.
<\home\alex\afk> well.. it's really hard to find a grey shade that fits perfectly
<\home\alex\afk> i actually like the column header... but we can talk about the sidebar
<RobOakes> An alternative would be to provide a partial outline in white.  It would greatly improve contrast and make it more readable.
<\home\alex\afk> ah
<\home\alex\afk> okay
<\home\alex\afk> i tried to go for a more professional looks, than what ubuntu looks like right now
<RobOakes> The actual colors are very attractive.  It's been a while since I had a UI class, but I seem to remember that you want to maximize the contrast between text and background.  For black on gray, the rule of thumb was like six shades difference.
<RobOakes> Which means that if your using 20% gray you would want at least 80% gray for text. Or a partial highlight (like a drop shadow).
<\home\alex\afk> so you are member of the ubuntu artwork team?
<RobOakes> Nope.  I'm not really anything.  Got an IM from a friend who said I should take a look at UDS related stuff.  So, I'm trolling the IRC of teams that looked interesting.
<\home\alex\afk> made the column header lighter
<\home\alex\afk> lets see for the sidebar
<\home\alex\afk> sidebar is a black layer @ 10%
<RobOakes> And if I'm going to be nitpicky ... Does your font have a semibold weight rather than bold?  The bold at that size causes a bit of run on.  But that is being *really*, *really* picky.
<\home\alex\afk> that's just the windows calibri font
<\home\alex\afk> didn't really care about the font right now.. just a sketch
<RobOakes> Probably not, then.
<\home\alex\afk> but it hasnt got a semibold
<RobOakes> Don't worry about it.  I got carried away.
<\home\alex\afk> i planned to use the Ubuntu font or the mac os x font
<\home\alex\afk> http://666kb.com/i/bntl68c8n6tzf3xse.png
<RobOakes> I think that looks really nice, and it doesn't feel quite so dark (while stil keeping good contrast).
<\home\alex\afk> that was my plan...
<RobOakes> I really like the scrollbar.
<\home\alex\afk> that was osx inspired
<RobOakes> Except not quite so shiny.  Which is nice.  Does it keep the same width as the OS X version?
<\home\alex\afk> the scrollbar? yes
<RobOakes> I typically use the Ubuntu version and feel it's a bit too narrow.  This looks slightly wider and, IMHO, preferable.
<\home\alex\afk> im thinking about using some color
<\home\alex\afk> the close/minimize/maximize buttons are planned to be colord on mouseover
<\home\alex\afk> my intention is to make a reaaally good looking, yet usable, theme.
<\home\alex\afk> but i'm not sure about the navigation buttons
<\home\alex\afk> RobOakes, what do you think about a colored sidepanel?
<RobOakes> Depends what color.  Desaturated theme colors can look quite nice as a background to text.
<\home\alex\afk> either a very light blue or a very light orange
<RobOakes> You could then use the saturated color for mouse and hover effects.  This is what Apple does in Mac OS X.  There is really only one color in the theme, blue.  The other shades are various levels of saturation.
<Islington> can someone change the topic, the font is now available
<\home\alex\afk> well.. i have no color so far
<RobOakes> Orange would look nice.  It's usually best to just pick one and then make a mock-up.
<RobOakes> When I'm trying to work out a design, I usually have to iterate.  Otherwise, things don't click.
<\home\alex\afk> im digging blue
<\home\alex\afk> but yellowish/orange look scool aswell
<RobOakes> Blue is pretty good.  I'd try mockups with green, yellow, and orange.
<\home\alex\afk> green doesnt look good at all
<RobOakes> Scratch that one then ;)
<RobOakes> Do you have a color source book?
<\home\alex\afk> nope
<RobOakes> I usually like to try 5 or 10 different combos when I'm looking at color.  It helps me get an idea for what works and what does not.  One of my teachers used to say that failure is just as important as success.
<\home\alex\afk> http://666kb.com/i/bntpc0kr7g57fghqm.jpg
<\home\alex\afk> I tried all the colors... and honestly, blue looks best
<\home\alex\afk> font sucks...
<Islington> \home\alex\afk: it looks like the hinting is off
<Islington> for the font that is
<\home\alex\afk> Islington, i didn't want to use the font anyway
<\home\alex\afk> it's microsofts default
<\home\alex\afk> wanted to use ubuntu or lucida sans
<\home\alex\afk> but it's a little to small in the sidepanel
<Islington> try droid font family> made for small type
<\home\alex\afk> maybe i'll go for the droid
<RobOakes> If you're going to use the blue, try and repeat it elsewhere as well.  (Not really sure where, but it will help unify the UI.)  The scrollbar would be one option.
<Islington> or possibly mouseover events
<RobOakes> That would work as well.  You might use a slightly more transparent shade as a background for the icons?
<RobOakes> That is then darkened on mouseover?
<RobOakes> (Just thoughts and things to consider, not criticisms.)
<\home\alex\afk> i wanted to lighten the icons up on mouseover
<RobOakes> I should probably clarify, UI is not really my thing.  I do a little of it, but I'm mostly an illustration guy.
<RobOakes> When I'm doing artwork at all.  By day, I'm a staff scientist.
<\home\alex\afk> i love 3d... but since i go to university, there isnt too much time
<\home\alex\afk> im really not sure about the color thing
<\home\alex\afk> http://666kb.com/i/bntpokiezf6fqrxla.jpg
<\home\alex\afk> that's what i started doing earlier in 3d
<\home\alex\afk> need to find some time to continue working
<\home\alex\afk> haven't spend time on calves and feet yet :P
<\home\alex\afk> i'll have to take a look at the theme another time
<\home\alex\afk> will help me decide what to keep and what not to keep
<Islington> that was interesting
<RobOakes> Agreed.  Kind of disappointed I didn't get to hear the end of it.
<RobOakes> Thinking about it, it seems like Launchpad does most of what they are looking for.  The only major missing piece is the ability to publicly post needed jobs.
<RobOakes> I wonder if they could somehow allow for project blueprints to be posted to a particular forum, or tagged?  That could provide a way for developers to request design support from an already existing tool.
<RobOakes> I suppose I'll need to listen to the session tomorrow.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-26
<aendruk> doctormo: Just a follow-up to the other day: Bugs in the Ubuntu Brand Guidelines can be filed at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-style-guidelines. Thanks again.
<Islington> just got here to the uds place
<Islington> hey vish
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-27
<message144> Hi, does anyone know a way to disable the transparent terminal window that the Ubuntu Dust theme sets? FYI, it is not the same as the transparency setting for the terminal profile.
<coz_> vish,   hey guy
<vish> coz_: hey!
<coz_> vish,  I was wondering..if you get any free time..if you wouldnt mind looking through the ccsm icons i made  and see if anything is wrong with them?
<vish> coz_: sure, but i'm at the UDS this week..
<coz_> ah yes I completely forgot
<coz_> vish,  ok no problem
<coz_> sorry didnt mean to disturb you
<vish> coz_: no probs, just give me a link, i'll have a look at it when can sneak a moment :)
<coz_> vish,   cool I really appreciate this :)   http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/compiz%2B%2B/ccsm-Tango.tar.gz
<vish> coz_: thx..
<coz_> vish,  a comment was made that they are no on the "pixel grid"  and therfor blurry
<vish> coz_: yea, if icon is not pixel aligned, it becomes blurry..
<coz_> vish,  ok I will have to goolge  to understand that precisely
<vish> coz_: hmm.. well, you have to make icons with gird displayed..
<coz_> ok  I can probably edit these easily then
<vish> coz_: take the example of  ccsm-Tango/scalable/apps/plugin-animationsim.svg
<coz_> ok
<vish> open it in inkscape... you'll see the lower rectangle
<vish> select view Â» grid
<coz_> ooo
<vish> you'll see that the border lines dont align with the grid.. hence it is blurry
<coz_> understood
<coz_> damn I should have paid more attention to this
<xapantu> Hi all!
<xapantu> I saw the new advertisment (this one : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYTJPaM82nQ&feature=player_embedded )
<xapantu> I would like to know if I could get the source ? I would like to make a french version.
<xapantu> Obviously, I will totally understand if you don't want to share your great work ^^ (I know it would be cause some problem...)
<xapantu> Or maybe I am not in the right place ?
<xapantu> (I repost my message since some person came)
<xapantu> I saw the new advertisment (this one : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYTJPaM82nQ&feature=player_embedded )
<xapantu> I would like to know if I could get the source ? I would like to make a french version. Obviously, I will totally understand if you don't want to share your great work ^^ (I know it would be cause some problem...) Or maybe I am not in the right place ?
<islington> vish are you attending the gtk themeing session
<vish> islington: hey, i'm now in the chinese design session..
<islington> ooh interesting I thought that was restricted to tomorrow morning
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-28
<message144> Really liking the "New Wave" theme. Just tried it for first time.
<Schendje> hi doctormo!
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-29
<duanedesign> vish: if you have a second could you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/duanedesign/sandbox3#BT%20Focus%20Groups
<duanedesign> vish: the Beginners Team is reorganizing its Focus Groups and we ant to create am Art Focus Group
<duanedesign> want to create an*
<vish> duanedesign: hmm, art focus group..
<vish> duanedesign: what is their end goal, right now we are trying to even find the need for the artwork team ;)
<duanedesign> vish: good point.
<duanedesign> vish: the goal of the Focus Groups is to mentor people in that area of the community
<vish> duanedesign: yea, mentoring is good, but right now team moral is at an all time low..
<vish> morale
<duanedesign> vish: Moving forward we want to make sure we coordinate with the areas of the community we are mentoring people in.
<duanedesign> so I wanted to mention the Focus Group to you.
<vish> duanedesign: yea, sounds good..
<duanedesign> :) thank you
<vish> duanedesign: i think when you mention wallpapers, you need to make it clearer tht it wont be the default wallpaper in Ubuntu, but maybe derivatives..
 * duanedesign nods
<duanedesign> vish: I guess a lot will be figured out this cycle with the survey that is being created. That should help figure out the differences (areas of contribution) between the Artwork Team and Canonical Design Team?
<vish> yea..
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-31
<setz> Hello, I've done a couple Openbox themes that match up very nicely with the Dust and Dust Sand themes. Is there any way I could/should contribute them, or should I not worry about it since Ubuntu mainly pushes GNOME?
<setz> The themes are http://box-look.org/content/show.php/Dusty?content=133958 and http://box-look.org/content/show.php/Sandy?content=134335 if anyone is interested.
<thorwil> hi doctormo! got back home smoothly, except for my baggage that's likely still somewhere between amsterdam and dÃ¼sseldorf :)
 * thorwil -> dinner
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-10-24
<blake> Hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-10-25
<akgraner> hey all  - I'm working on updating  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Team can someone update the artwork team listing please?
<akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-10-26
<tvdavies> Anyone know where I can get free high HD quality wallpapers ?
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-10-26
<jackarg> hey, anyone know what to do if i want to submit a wallpaper to be (possibly) included into ubuntu?
#ubuntu-artwork 2016-10-28
<arty-name> Hello! What would be the best place to report an issue with a standard Ubuntu theme?
<arty-name> I mean Radiance. It is provided in the package light-themes, and Ubuntu Artwork team is marked as the maintainer of this package.
<arty-name> This theme has a bug in Gtk 3.20, used in Ubuntu 16.10
