#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-05
<siretart> gn8 folks!
<zakame> gn8 siretart :)
<sistpoty> gn8 siretart
<ajmitch_> night siretart
<minghua> Must I test installing every package I merged/synced?
<lifeless> minghua: not much point merging them if you dont
<minghua> lifeless: okay, will do.  I think I was lazy and didn't test installing (just building in pbuilder) for some previous syncs.
<sistpoty> minghua: it should be installable on dapper, but I don't test-install packages either (as I'm still on breezy)
<lifeless> sistpoty: make a chroot ;)
<minghua> but installing only detects problems like overlapping files, etc.
<sistpoty> hehe
<minghua> it's not like that I know how to use every package I merged/synced
<minghua> (although I always choose packages that I at least heard of first)
<crimsun> ouch, that was a long TB meeting
<minghua> Hmm, the MOTU science team's first bug has a nice and responsive submitter
<sistpoty> args... now with 2 chroots I never now what's my real system *g*
<minghua> siretart: what shell are you using?
<sistpoty> minghua: zsh
<sistpoty> but I get the idea... I'll update my prompt
<minghua> sistpoty: hmm, I don't know about zsh, but the default .bashrc shipped with bash has a thing in $PS1 to indicate it
<minghua> sistpoty: :-)
<sistpoty> minghua: I already have a custom prompt... so it's easy to update this... but thanks for the hint :)
<crimsun> sistpoty: nice work on flashplugin-nonfree; I had a different approach and was waiting for Debian to update, but yours works, too
<sistpoty> crimsun: I'm not happy altogether with this... I hope debian will update this one soon
<ajmitch_> afternoon
* ajmitch_ is just recovering from a rather large lunch ;)
<Kyral> Good Evening ajmitch_
<crimsun> hey ajmitch_ :)
<crimsun> nice to see slomo has main privs now
<ajmitch_> yep :)
<sistpoty> crimsun: the current version will always dl flashplugin... but it's better if it can dl a current version then to have old versions with security probs around
<sistpoty> (imo)
<crimsun> sistpoty: right, it's better than nothing atm
<ajmitch_> so he can take over the mono team & tseng & I can sit back ;)
<crimsun> hehe
<sistpoty> crimsun: btw: mdz sent me an email how I should state my changelog when using a patch from somewhere *g*
<crimsun> oh?
<ajmitch_> sistpoty: explain
<Kyral> I think I can attend the next CC meeting :D
<sistpoty> nothing serious... just to list parts I took from the patch not with * foobar but with indented - foobar
<crimsun> ah
<ajmitch_> makes sense, it's how I do things
<ajmitch_> so you have * xyz
<ajmitch_> & the - lining up under the x
<sistpoty> yep... that's what I intended to do, but was too f*cking lazy *g*
<ajmitch_> IronPython 0.9.5 on .NET 2.0.50727.42
<ajmitch_> Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
<ajmitch_> lovely
<ajmitch_> compiled & runs on mono, now I can package it
<sistpoty> *yawn* reviewing debdiffs is pretty exhausting :/
<ajmitch_> no kidding
<ajmitch_> managed to comment on a few on REVU?
<sistpoty> ajmitch_: no, I'm walking the way through assigned merges
<ajmitch_> ah
<ajmitch_> those that have debdiffs
<ajmitch_> all the zope-* ones won't ;)
<ajmitch_> since I've yet to sit down with a strong drink
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> actually i only look at non-motu bugs ;)
<ajmitch_> good
* ajmitch_ has been uploading a few
* sistpoty got only one this night
* sistpoty looks at ntop
* ajmitch_ looks back at work
<ajmitch_> yay, killed firefox on my box
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Epiphany!
<Kyral> Does anyone know Lisp here?
<ajmitch_> Kyral: this is on win XP ;)
<sistpoty> Kyral: only scheme (lisp dialect) to some extent
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> Next semester my project is going to be to write a couple of Emacs plugins
<Kyral> and I was wondering how easy Lisp is to learn
<lifeless> really depends how twisty your brain is
<Kyral> ?
<Kyral> howso?
<sistpoty> StevenK: ntop uploaded :)
<ajmitch_> sistpoty: I have some questions for StevenK about module-assistant before you upload it
<sistpoty> ajmitch_: ok
<sistpoty> ajmitch_: but I won't upload any more stuff tonight anyways, as I really need some sleep
<ajmitch_> heh ok :)
<ajmitch_> sleep well
<sistpoty> thx and good night
<Kyral> hey LJ!
<LaserJock> Hi Kyral
<LaserJock> are you running dapper?
<Kyral> Yah
<LaserJock> I just did a reinstall of breezy and dist-upgrade to dapper.
<Kyral> X broke horribly?
<LaserJock> no, just gdm
<Kyral> Ah
<Kyral> X went to hell for me
<LaserJock> I just ran startx and everything was fine
<Kyral> NVidia Module is offline
<LaserJock> except the kernel
<LaserJock> Kyral: right
<Kyral> and I can't compile a new one
<LaserJock> what kernel are you running?
<Kyral> 2.6.12-9-k7
<LaserJock> I'm on 2.6.12-10-k7
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> I dunno
<Kyral> the 2.6.15 is in the repos
<LaserJock> I was wondering about whether I should do 2.6.15 or not
<Kyral> I tried installing it on my laptop
<Kyral> NDiswrapper went to heck
<ajmitch_> obviously
<Kyral> yah yah
<ajmitch_> I think ndiswrapper might have been due to some kernel rearrangements w.r.t pci
<Kyral> prolly
<ajmitch_> nvidia module is just because there's no l-r-m
<Kyral> I didn't try it
<ajmitch_> & even after a windows reboot, firefox is still utterly broken
<ajmitch_> yay :D
<Kyral> I meant my NVidia module on 2.6.12-9 is hell
<ajmitch_> aha
<Kyral> And I can't compile a new one from the NVidia .run either
<LaserJock> so can I build the nvidia module for 2.6.15?
<ajmitch_> that's a pain
<Kyral> somehow it can't find the kernel headers
<ajmitch_> why can't you do that?
<ajmitch_> heh
<Kyral> which I have installed
<Kyral> blah blah blah kernel.h doesn't exist
<Kyral> when I verified that the file exists where it says it doesn't
<Kyral> stupid thing :P
<LaserJock> well, the only thing that I use my nvidia module for is America's Army, and I don't play that much anymore since I started hanging out around here
<Kyral> Did X change where it looks for Modules?
<minghua> 2.6.15-4.6 didn't work here, CPU lockup at pcmcia start-up
<minghua> haven't tried the latest ones
<Kyral> I could prolly recompile NDiswrapper
<Kyral> But the NVidia Module and v4l confuse me
<Kyral> they are in /usr/X11R6/lib instead of in /usr/lib/xorg like the rest of the modules
<Kyral> Oh
<Kyral> LJ
<Kyral> .....
* Kyral rofles at Mark's comment on the Devel list
<Kyral> LJ
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<Kyral> Looks like I will be able to make it to the CC meeting next tuesday
<ajmitch_> good
<ajmitch_> maybe you'll even have enough contributions for membership :)
<chillywilly> hi
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch_> hello chillywilly
<LaserJock> sweet Kyral
<LaserJock> ajmitch_: I hope so too
<Kyral> Yah maybe someone should scan my wikipage lol
<crimsun> url?
<Kyral> wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisPeterman
<ajmitch_> it really doesn't list much in the way of contributions
<Kyral> Yah I know
<Kyral> most of my contributions come out of the Forums
<ajmitch_> provide a bit of info on the teams & what you do in them
<ajmitch_> try & get someone on the forums to support you at CC then
<Kyral> I think I can get Nalioth...
<crimsun> Kyral: also list the uploads that have been sponsored
<Kyral> You mean Patches?
<crimsun> well, the links to the relevant packages from dapper-changes
<Kyral> I haven't affected Dapper Changes
<Kyral> except XTerm
<ajmitch_> ok..
<ajmitch_> breezy?
<Kyral> fixed a typo in vm...
<ajmitch_> hm
<Kyral> Like I said, most of it comes from support in the Forums
<ajmitch_> the CC might want a bit more
<Kyral> and advocating it locally
<Kyral> I have two packages sitting in REVU...EasyChem should be ready to go
<Kyral> FlowDesigner needs to be fixed...
<ajmitch_> even so, the CC is harsh :)
<Kyral> I know :D
<ajmitch_> well mako likes to see sustained, significant contributions
<Kyral> Jeez what do you think I do on the Forums
<crimsun> Kyral: you don't seem to have linked to your UF profile, though
<ajmitch_> that's great, but the CC needs to see that
<Kyral> I dud
<Kyral> did even
<crimsun> ah, I see
<crimsun> you'll definitely want at least two people to vouch for you from UF, then
<ajmitch_> for MOTUs it seems to work best with at least 2 or 3
<Kyral> Actually right now I'd like to see EasyChem get looked at before I applied for membershop
<slomo> Kyral: i download it and look at it in the train ;) you'll get either a comment or a vote later today :)
<Kyral> ty ty
<crimsun> 'grats, slomo
<ajmitch_> Kyral: you want gtkorphan archived?
<slomo> crimsun: thanks :)
<Kyral> ajmitch_: arhivied? Didn't the developer do it himself?
<ajmitch_> sorry, removed from the list of active revu packages
<Kyral> yah
<slomo> Kyral: you may want to add a watchfile to easychem to allow easier updating in the future
<Kyral> watchfile?
<ajmitch_>  The main goal of EasyChem is the final quality of the drawings. Exported in
<ajmitch_> + vectorial formats (PS, PDF, LaTeX, fig), they are just perfect and can be
<ajmitch_> + used in any quality-demanding mediu
<ajmitch_> english is that?
<slomo> Kyral: man uscan
<slomo> bll
<slomo> bbl ;)
<ajmitch_> ugly dh_make template with all the crap left in it
<Kyral> I didn't write it lol. I just grabbed it from the description on GNOMEFIles
<ajmitch_> part of being a packager is writing coherent descriptions
<Kyral> Okay
<ajmitch_> you put in a menu file, but not a desktop file?
<Kyral> I'll fix it
<Kyral> in the morning
<Kyral> No icon for it yet. Do you have to have an icon for a desktop file?
<ajmitch_> it would be nice
<ajmitch_> I'm sure you could use the package to get a nice picture :)
<Kyral> lol yah
<Kyral> yah leave stuff like this in a comment and I'll fix it tomorrow
<Kyral> its 0100 and I have class at 0900
<Kyral> :P
<ajmitch_> suck it up ;)
<ajmitch_> you can't be a MOTU unless you can survive on < 4 hours sleep ;)
<Kyral> Its called I want to come back so I still have free internet :P
<ajmitch_> haha
<Kyral> Do I not have a point? :P
<ajmitch_> no
<Kyral> meh :P
<Kyral> anyway good night :D
<ajmitch_> :)
<ajmitch_> night
<dholbach> good morning
<LaserJock> dholbach: good evening
<crimsun> re daniel
<dholbach> hey LaserJock, crimsun :)
<ajmitch_> hey dholbach
<dholbach> morning guys :)
<jsgotangco> morning dholbach :)
<jsgotangco> ajmitch_: are you still going to LCA?
<ajmitch_> yes
<ajmitch_> it's only a few minutes walk from here
<ajmitch_> & I'm registered for it
<ajmitch_> are you thinking of coming?
<jsgotangco> right i'm going to do some travel planning after i arrive from seoul, its in my list
<ajmitch_> sabdfl is giving a keynote talk :)
<jsgotangco> i need at least a place to stay...will check out the conference page tonight
* ajmitch_ should go & get his ubuntu shirt signed or do something else fanboy-like ;)
<jsgotangco> get 6 people to wear a shirt with each letter of SABDFL printed
<ajmitch_> haha
<dholbach> that should be easy... just tell them, that he wrote "I always shoot for fireworks during sex." in ubuntu bug 15284
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu Bugzilla bug #15284: Disturbing sounds in Skyrocket screensaver Product: Ubuntu, Component: rss-glx, Severity: normal, Assigned to: ogra@ubuntu.com, Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: FIXED http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15284
<jsgotangco> haha
<ajmitch_> dholbach: get a tshirt printed up with his photo & that quote? ;)
<dholbach> yeah, why not?
<ajmitch_> present it to him as a gift
* ajmitch_ is looking forward to http://lca2006.linux.org.au/abstract.php?id=341 
<jsgotangco> try looking for a pic of him wagging his tongue
<ajmitch_> heh
<ajmitch_> we needed a photo of him with the liquid latex bottle
<dholbach> hahaha :)
<ajmitch_> hm, just found a scary photo of pitti
<jsgotangco> dholbach: can we use the calendar for Accessibility Team in LP for meeting scheds?
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> i just set the mailing list as contact adress of the team
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> err ML?
<dholbach> ubuntu-accessibility@
<ajmitch_> yes
<ajmitch_> there are new mailing lists
<ajmitch_> including a MOTU list!
<ajmitch_> dholbach: is it meant for social, or semi-technical? :)
<dholbach> both :)
<jsgotangco> i didnt know there was a motu list already
<jsgotangco> heh
<ajmitch_> created today :)
<jsgotangco> wow thats a lot of lists already
* dholbach thinks it's more than ok
<dholbach> hey lazy mono team, yes you: ajmitch, SloMoSnail, tseng: package DIVA - it was requested on the desktopTeam pages - is that better ajmitch? ;)
<ajmitch_> haha
<ajmitch_> lazy? us?
<dholbach> sure ;)
<dholbach> maybe not, when slomo helps you out
<ajmitch_> pfft
<dholbach> :-p
<ajmitch_> hehe
<ajmitch_> I do package things sometime
<ajmitch_> having a release of diva somewhere would be nice to
<dholbach> yeah
<jsgotangco> diva?
<dholbach> http://forge.novell.com/modules/xfmod/project/?diva
<jsgotangco> thanks
<jsgotangco> oh yeah ive heard of this...
<siretart> morning
<dholbach> hey siretart
<siretart> hey dholbach!
<siretart> dholbach: nice job on our new mailling list!
<dholbach> merci beaucoup :)
<sivang> morning all
<siretart> hey sivang
* dholbach will announce the list on devel later on
<siretart> okay
<siretart> shall we start an introduction round? ;)
<dholbach> sounds good
<sivang> dholbach: ubuntu-motu list?
<dholbach> yep
<sivang> cool
<siretart> WOW!
<siretart> who did the new usplash artwork?
<dholbach> guess it was mjg59
<siretart> :)
<siretart> dholbach: do you use dapper on your notebook? do you have an radeon in it?
<dholbach> i use dapper on my notebook, but have a i810
<ajmitch_> hey siretart
<ajmitch_> how are you this morning/
* siretart considers upgrading to dapper
<siretart> ajmitch_: a bit tired, got up too early, but I'm fine.
<siretart> ajmitch_: how are you?
<ajmitch_> I'm good :)
<siretart> great! :)
<ajmitch_> an introduction round might be good once a few people are signed up to the list
<siretart> agreed
<siretart> hm, this gamin bug seem still to be around bugging gnome-panel
<dholbach> they can read the archives, no? :)
* ajmitch_ hasn't restarted with the new kernel yet
<dholbach> how can we register it with gmane?
<ajmitch_> nor have I logged out of gnome :)
<hunger__> Are there instructions on how to package something out of a version controll tool?
<ajmitch_> no, but you generally use the export feature of that tool
<ajmitch_> eg make a snapshot by cvs export
<dholbach> yeah, then run ./autogen.sh && make dist and you have a nice tarball
* ajmitch_ was about to say that
<dholbach> (depending on what you package)
<siretart> dholbach: gmane subscribing is easy
* dholbach hugs ajmitch_ 
<hunger> ajmitch_: So I manually create a tarball?
<sivang> don't fight guys :)
<dholbach> siretart: can you do that for ubuntu-motu?
<abelcheung> isn't it make distcheck instead?
<ajmitch_> hunger: make dist will do it
<siretart> dholbach: I think they even have an webinterface where you can request a list to be added
<siretart> dholbach: okay, I'm on it
<ajmitch_> abelcheung: that runs checks as well
* ajmitch_ was going to do a cvs snapshot of f-spot
<dholbach> siretart: i will do it for the accessibility list
<hunger> So how do I stick my stuff into a revision control tool?
<ajmitch_> but lewing promised a release soon
<ajmitch_> bzr init; bzr add; bzr commit 'm'Importing'
<ajmitch_> ;)
<hunger> ajmitch_: That sucky buildsystem of upstream does not have make dist
<ajmitch_> s/'m/-m/
<hunger> ajmitch: Do I include the upstream code? I guess not.
<ajmitch_> siretart: new artwork is hardcoded in the usplash package
<siretart> dholbach: do you want all email adresses shown in the gmane archives to be encrypted?
<siretart> ajmitch_: ah, I see
<ajmitch_> siretart: so I didn't have to reboot to see it :)
<dholbach> siretart: encrypted?
<siretart> dholbach: like this: larsi-SDHSGGHghsdyS@public.gmane.org.
<siretart> dholbach: so that the archives don't need to expose the real adresses
<dholbach> hrm, don't they have stuff like "<siretart at ubuntu dot com>"? :)
<siretart> dholbach: doesn't look like
<dholbach> ah ok, but it seems to be ok
<dholbach> you can still receive mails like that
<siretart> ok. no encryption then
<siretart> I don't care. I have spam filters ;)
<dholbach> maybe we should toggle it on... hm, dunno
<siretart> ok
<dholbach> gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel.motu?
<siretart> jepp
<siretart> A request to subscribe ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com has been sent to the Gmane administrators.
* ajmitch_ replies to the mail on-list
<ajmitch_> better to get stuff going on the list rather than killing threads on irc ;)
<dholbach> desktop list added as well
<ajmitch_> yay
* ajmitch_ is officially on too many lists
<dholbach> accessibility list added as well
<dholbach> rocknroll
<ajmitch_> we need more people that just siretart & myself posting to the motu list :)
<lucas> I'll post a "motutools status update" later today
<lucas> I have to write it first :)
<siretart> lucas: that would be awesome!
<zakame> hi all :)
<ajmitch_> hey new motu!
<dholbach> :)
<jsgotangco> hey motu zakame
<zakame> hello motus! :)
<dholbach> should we have the list announce on fridge too?
<ajmitch_> yes!
<siretart> good idea!
<dholbach> righto
<siretart> perhaps with a little explainations whats ontopic on the list and whats not
<dholbach> sent it out
<ajmitch_> a list charter
<dholbach> to devel-announce and fridge-devel :)
<zakame> yeah, go go go! :)
<dholbach> which are both moderated ;)
<jsgotangco> is the list limited to motus or slackers can join?
<siretart> jsgotangco: everyone is invited!
<siretart> jsgotangco: everyone who wants to chatter with motus ;)
<jsgotangco> or bug for support
<dholbach> jsgotangco: there's no difference between motus and slackers ;)
<ajmitch_> we have malone for that :)
<ajmitch_> well malone for bugs
<ajmitch_> support tracker for support
<siretart> jsgotangco: what kind of support? If you need advice in package, then thats the right list for you
<siretart> in packaging, that is
<raphink> by list, do you mean the room here, or are you talking about a ML ?
<jsgotangco> raphink: ML
<zakame> maling list
<zakame> este mailing
<ajmitch_> if you need advice on which beer to drink, that list is the right place also
<raphink> ok
<zakame> w00t
<raphink> what's the url of the list?
<ajmitch_> jsgotangco: that's another reason to come to LCA
<dholbach> raphink: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> how about launchpad teams?
<ajmitch_> raphink: hm?
<raphink> I'm trying to understand that better
<ajmitch_> which teams?
<raphink> what launchpad team might a packager who is not a MOTU join?
<dholbach> motu?
<dholbach> err
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> not motu yet :)
<raphink> hehe I guess ;)
<ajmitch_> depends if you need to be part of a team :)
<ajmitch_> since there are a number of smaller teams which have focus
* jsgotangco creates ubuntu-slacker team
* ajmitch_ joins up
* siretart just trys epiphany
<ajmitch_> jsgotangco: you're a travelling international celebrity though
<siretart> galeon seems to have problems with my java plugin..
<siretart> but it has potential to get rid of firefox
<raphink> :)
<ajmitch_> jsgotangco: you're away to korea tomorrow?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<raphink> konqueror is enough for me to get rid of FF
<ajmitch_> siretart: I use galeon for 99% of my web browsing at home
<jsgotangco> thank god belutz will be able to cover jakarta
<siretart> ajmitch_: I get INTERNAL ERROR on Browser End: JavaPluginFactory5 init - no agent?
* jsgotangco hates to fly seoul to jakarta in less than 24 hours
<siretart> on start. any idea?
<ajmitch_> siretart: I try not to use java :)
<siretart> ajmitch_: right. thats a good idea. the problem is, I need it :(
<ajmitch_> yeah..
<ajmitch_> I think the bug is filed somewhere
<siretart> ah, known bug. sure thing.
<siretart> I think I will use epiphany for now and switch to galeon 2.0 when I upgrade to dapper :)
<ajmitch_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/galeon/+bug/3747
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3747: galeon fails to start if j2re-1.4 is installed In: galeon (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Ubuntu GNOME Team, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/3747
<ajmitch_> see the last comments
<zakame> hm, is there something wrong with docbook-dsssl? muttprint ftbfs :(
<siretart> ajmitch_: wow. how obvious. thanks a lot!
<crimsun> lock-step build-dep fuckage != fun.
<siretart> galeon looks impressive
<crimsun> rebuilding gdal so that I can upload a fixed openscenegraph so that I can upload osgcal
<ajmitch_> siretart: galeon will be moving back towards the epiphany codebase
<ajmitch_> which is ironic, as epiphany was the original fork iirc
<dholbach> yeah
<ajmitch_> egcs vs gcc again :)
<siretart> hm. galeon seems to render launchpad differently
<ajmitch_> siretart: it shouldn't
<siretart> ajmitch_: perhaps just different fontset
<ajmitch_> http://www.livejournal.com/users/jdthood/1967.html
<ajmitch_> ouch :)
<crimsun> ouch indeed
<dholbach> could we have a link on wiki/REVU to wiki/MOTUNewPackagesPolicy to explain its purpose?
<ajmitch_> yes
<ajmitch_> is UniverseNewPackages up to date?
<dholbach> hey Tonio_
<ajmitch_> if not, should we pull it off the wiki
<dholbach> ajmitch_: we should link to it too
<ajmitch_> since we collect a lot of stale pages
<Tonio_> hi everyone :)
<ajmitch_> hi Tonio_
<zakame> hello Tonio_ :)
<dholbach> ajmitch_: there need to be some stuff added
<ajmitch_> do we want to keep maintaining that page?
<ajmitch_> or use the list that utnubu has?
<siretart> ajmitch_: I think they only have packages which already are in ubuntu, have they?
<dholbach> if we'd use it, then we didnt have to maintain that page
<ajmitch_> siretart: that's what UniverseNewPackages is meant to be
<ajmitch_> packages that are in ubuntu, but not debian
<Tonio_> dholbach: I need to ask elmo what happened to pwmanager package...
<dholbach> Tonio_: yeah
<siretart> ajmitch_: I see
<Tonio_> dholbach: what's the best way to ask/find him ?
<Tonio_> mail or irc ?
<siretart> ajmitch_: do you have a link to the utnubu list handy?
<ajmitch_> oh man, debian is about to start some fun xlibs-dev transitions
<siretart> ajmitch_: FINALLY!
<dholbach> Tonio_: just try it on irc, if he doesn't respond, mail him
<ajmitch_> http://utnubu.alioth.debian.org/missing-packages
<ajmitch_> this includes stuff removed from debian
<ajmitch_> that we haven't removed yet
<Tonio_> dholbach: okay... I know the ubuntu people have LOTS to do, so I dont want to disturb... "arriver comme un cheveu sur la soupe" as we say in french
<siretart> ajmitch_: that missing-packages isnt that clear
<ajmitch_> Tonio_: that blackhole package?
<ajmitch_> siretart: I know
<ajmitch_> but it could be a start for something we can use
<siretart> ajmitch_: perhaps we could do some grep-dctrl magic to get a nicer list updated regulary via cron on tiber
<dholbach> Tonio_: no, that's not that bad :)
* ajmitch_ already had some magic for that
<Tonio_> ajmitch, yep, the only package that disapears when uploaded....
<siretart> cool
<ajmitch_> but it's fairly trivial with grep-dctrl & some python
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | Grab your merge here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new | sign up for ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com now!
* ajmitch_ has grabbed enough merges
<ajmitch_> I just need to do them now
* Tonio_ rebooting -> laptop upgrading to 3.5
<ajmitch_> siretart: this list also includes apt-get.org junk
<zakame> woo
<Riddell> Tonio_: success?
<Tonio_> Riddell: with ?
<Tonio_> Riddell: with my personnal problems ?
<Riddell> Tonio_: no, with 3.5
<Tonio_> Riddell: ah ;) yes, like a charm ;)
<Tonio_> Riddell: still the ivman problem
<Riddell> KDE.  more reliabl than girls.
<Tonio_> Riddell: definitly
* zakame considers getting a metawire.org account
<Riddell> Tonio_: what does grep ivman /usr/bin/startkde  give you?
<Tonio_> tonio@Kubuntu:~$ grep ivman /usr/bin/startkde
<Tonio_> # Kubuntu uses ivman for volume manager
<Tonio_> if [ -x /usr/bin/ivman ] ; then
<Tonio_>     /usr/bin/ivman -s --nofork &
<Tonio_> tonio@Kubuntu:~$
<Tonio_> third machine upgraded, so I assume this might be a general little issue
<Riddell> Tonio_: that's not the startkde from kde 3.5 then
<Tonio_> hum.............
<Riddell> ksmserver is the package
<Tonio_> let me check if I got it installed
<ajmitch_> Riddell: stuff still needs rebuilt for libstdc++ changes?
<ajmitch_> Riddell: I'd hate to have to remove kde packages so that I can upgrade gnome :)
<Riddell> ajmitch_: yep, quite a bit will be needing rebuilt
<Tonio_> Riddell: I have it installed, last version
<ajmitch_> Riddell: anything us mere mortals can help with? :)
<Riddell> Tonio_: spooky, breezy or dapper?
<ajmitch_> or do you have a specific order of rebuilds there?
<Riddell> ajmitch_: rebuilding universe please
<Tonio_> Riddell: breezy of course
<Riddell> ajmitch_: no paticular order
<Tonio_> tonio@Kubuntu:~$ dpkg -l | grep ksmserver
<Tonio_> ii  ksmserver                              3.5.0-0ubuntu0breezy1                session manager for KDE
<Riddell> ajmitch_: but see the note on KubuntuPackageGuide about adding .pot support (it's not possible with all packages but it's nice)
<ajmitch_> Riddell: right, I don't want to break kde in main too badly :)
<Riddell> Tonio_: must be a problem with the breezy packages then, I'll try and fix that sometime when I'm not in the middle of the world's busyest airport
<Tonio_> Riddell: I assume it is yes... According to what I know other people have the same problem
<Tonio_> Riddell: travelling actually ?
<Riddell> ajmitch_: just mind if it doesn't already have an ubuntuX version number and it doesn't need any changes to give it a build1 version number not ubuntu1
<Riddell> Tonio_: yes
<Riddell> OSDL desktop conference
<ajmitch_> Riddell: I'm aware of that one :)
<ajmitch_> having been a MOTU for a few months has rubbed off
<Riddell> ajmitch_: then rebuild!
<ajmitch_> :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: nice ;)
<ajmitch_> hey \sh
<zakame> hello \sh
<ajmitch_> ok, sleep time, see you tomorrow :)
<\sh> moins
<\sh> cu ajmitch
<sivang> moins \sh , 'sup?
<zakame> bye ajmitch
<\sh> zakame: checking your syncs now
<zakame> ooh! :)
<siretart> hey \sh
<\sh> moins siretart how are you? :)
<siretart> \sh: fine, and you?
<\sh> siretart: tired and a little bit pissed of my company here
<zakame> awww
<siretart> \sh: oh. about this schnitzel?
<\sh> siretart: no..about not knowing who has to go at the end of the year
<siretart> \sh: :(
<\sh> siretart: it's not a nice working situation right now in this office...we're all very "confused" and the pressure is raising
<siretart> \sh: I can imagine
<magnon> howdy siretart and \sh
<siretart> hey magnon!
<\sh> zakame: oh well...right now you are allowed to request syncs
<\sh> zakame: you're a motu :)
<\sh> zakame: I just forgot to mention it :)
<zakame> \sh: oh, cool! :)
<siretart> magnon: I think we are making good progress on the jack transition. most of that is catched by our merging work
<zakame> \sh: btw, how do I know if my GPG key has been added to the keyring? I got an autoreply from rt...
<slomo> Kyral: are you there?
<magnon> oh good
<\sh> zakame: what autoreply?
<magnon> my laptop is still not back *raises fist at apple*
<zakame> \sh: that my message to keyring has been added to a request tracker
<\sh> zakame: ah...then you will get a message when elmo add you to the keyring
<zakame> ok :D  I'll wait :)
<\sh> zakame: but you can start to request syncs...
<zakame> I will, starting with...
<slomo> \sh: in fact i requested syncs before i was approved as a motu ;)
<\sh> slomo: then elmo wasn't paying attention or he trusted you ;)
<\sh> hmm..fixing now old ftbfs and uploading missing packages
<slomo> Kyral: you have a comment for easychem... just notify me when you fixed it :)
<\sh> wow.
<\sh> this year the compensations are taxfree, if it's max. 8.5K EUR
<\sh> (when you get fired)
<slomo> ok, i'll get some food ;) bbl
<\sh> next year we have to pay the full bloat of tax (20 or 25%) on the complete ammount
<\sh> so lets get fired this year.
<zakame> there, just made my first sync request :)
<\sh> debian unstable
<zakame> ah, not just from debian
<zakame> bbl
<siretart> where did usr/include/X11/XKBlib.h go in dapper?
<siretart> it doesn't seem to be in libx11-dev anymore
<dholbach> /var/lib/dpkg/info/libx11-dev.list:/usr/include/X11/XKBlib.h
<siretart> hmmm
<siretart> this libflash package is annoying..
<siretart> damn. libflash has another orig.gz in dapper than in unstable :/
<dholbach> nice :)
<siretart> well, anyway. lets go on with the debian package but with the ubuntu orig.gz. *shrug*
<siretart> libflash uploaded.. finally
<dholbach> rock'n'roll
<dholbach> :)
<tseng> dholbach: !
<tseng> dholbach: yeah, diva is cool
<tseng> good morning :)
<dholbach> tseng: rock! :)
<StevenK> ajmitch_?
<siretart> diva?
<dholbach> http://forge.novell.com/modules/xfmod/project/?diva
<siretart> wow!
<siretart> new killer app?
<tseng> yes
<viviersf> ok
<siretart> dholbach: re: the email on utnubu-discuss: I think the guy was searching for someone to package his software. Thats why I didn't point him to  revu
<desplesda> has firefox 1.5 hit dapper yet, or is that still getting packaged?
<dholbach> siretart: oh well... :)
<azeem> desplesda: packages.ubuntu.com will tell you
<desplesda> azeem:  oh, of course, oops :P
<siretart> azeem: I read you are co maintaining the sbuild package, is that correct?
<desplesda> fantastic, it is
<azeem> siretart: yes
<siretart> azeem: perhaps you can explain me: I'm a bit confused why there is a debian sbuild package without buildd support and no buildd/wanna-build package at all
<azeem> siretart: the sbuild is a very old fork of the w-b code
<siretart> azeem: wouldn't it be reasonable to have a wanna-build source package producing wanna-build, buildd and sbuild, following upstream?
<azeem> s/sbuild/sbuild package in unstable/
<siretart> azeem: but I read roger has merged most pending patches from ryan
<azeem> siretart: yes, but there is still a history of several years of split development prior to neuro maintaining w-b in svn
<azeem> however, development was pretty slow
<azeem> siretart: the idea is to merge with "upstream", yes
<siretart> azeem: so whats the plan regarding wanna-build and build?
<azeem> siretart: personally, I am not very interested in stepping on neuros toes again.  I think the other two co-maintainers wanted to do that
<azeem> siretart: in any case, the packages provided by db.debian.org work reasonably well for setting up buildds, IMO
<siretart> azeem: I assume you intend uploading a new sbuild package in unstable soon, no?
<azeem> siretart: I gues we will, once Roger has finished merging for the moment, yeah
<siretart> azeem: I'd like to have an sbuild package in dapper which is able to build packages in ubuntu chroots as well
<siretart> azeem: would you accept such a patch in the debian package?
<azeem> siretart: I think we removed that check?
<siretart> you did?
<siretart> then I must have been using a really really old version
<azeem>    * sbuild: Removed check for specific distributions. Instead, fail if
<azeem>      build/chroot-$dist is not there.
<azeem>  sbuild  (0.35) unstable; urgency=low
<siretart> ok
<azeem> I'd consider it a regression if you cannot build in Ubuntu chroots
<siretart> ok. then I'll wait for the new upload to unstable and will test again
<azeem> siretart: do you need buildd/wanna-build packages for something specific, or did you just wonder why they were not there?
<siretart> azeem: I'm considering setting up a wanna-build/buildd setup for personal purposes
<siretart> and I might need it for my master thesis
<azeem> whoa :)
<azeem> I assume you saw http://www.us.debian.org/devel/buildd/setting-up ?
<siretart> yes, this is the cheat-sheet from aba, isn't it? ;)
<azeem> yeah, put into shape by Yoe for www.d.o, I believe
<azeem> siretart: you don't necessarily need w-b, btw.  If you just want to build a large number of packages, putting a properly formatted list into ~buildd/build/REDO will suffice
<siretart> azeem: ah. good to know. thanks
<bojan> hi everyone!
<dholbach> hey bojan
<siretart> azeem: I have an offer to do a master thesis on porting ubuntu (or debian, they don't mind) to powerpc-uclibc using crosscompiling
<bojan> i finally found out how to access irc best from windows ;)
<siretart> azeem: the powerpc board they are using is a very slow one, but equipped with a big fpga chip on it, which is their main research area
<azeem> cool
<azeem> siretart: I guess this will be restricted to main, or maybe even ubuntu-minimal?
<siretart> but they still cannot even boot linux :/ (they are having bad problems with the bootloader)
<azeem> or other words, has there been any greater effort to port packages to uclibc
<siretart> azeem: I'd start with ubunut-minimal, and see how far I can get for the thesis
<siretart> azeem: the long term goal would be of course a larger set of packages, basically the microUbuntu project
<siretart> azeem: and I know there is some work ongoing in doing a i386-uclibc port in debian
<azeem> yeah, so I heard.  Never saw any actual patches though, but I did not look hard, either
<azeem> (and do not maintain any obvious porting targets)
<siretart> he has some patches to binutils. his plan is to bootstrap the complete toolchain to the new target
<siretart> as he wants to run a real x86 debian buildd having a uclibc and doing the crosscompiling on the big machine itself
<siretart> I need to evaluate if this is an option at all for me
<siretart> (of course using a G4 or G5)
* siretart is off for lunch. culater!
<Kyral> Mornin'
<\sh> meeting
<dholbach> \sh: which meeting?
<zakame> evening all :)
<zakame> hm, is there a way to change the destination addy of my @ubuntu.com addy? :)
<crimsun> yes, change your primary launchpad-verified e-mail
<zakame> oh, just that? :) how long before this gets activated? :)
<crimsun> within the hour iirc
<zakame> I was asking because my spunge email went down :( so I'm rerouting to gmail... thanks :)
<bojan> can someone provide me information about merges and c++ allocator change? i would like to support this projects.
<lucas> /join #ubuntu-devel
<lucas> oops
<lucas> /join #ubuntu-devel
<zakame> bojan: err, there was doko 's mail on -devel about the c2a transition
<lucas> rah
<lucas> /join #ubuntu-devel
<lucas> shit
<lucas> :-)
<siretart> bojan: what kind of information do you need?
<siretart> bojan: besides of doko's announcement?
<lucas> strange xchat behaviour ...
<bojan> siretart: i would like to know how to help.
<dholbach> bojan: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-November/013025.html
<siretart> bojan: no problem. read dokos announcement, claim your package here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new, use our lpbugs.py script to create a malone bug, and read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReviewers
<bojan> dholbach, siretart: thx
<siretart> bojan: the lpbugs.py script can be found here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools
* crimsun scratches his head and wonders why libgl1-mesa-dev doesn't Depend on libx11-dev
<siretart> yay. we hit the 200 packages mark!
<zakame> oooh!
<lucas> siretart: 200 packages on ?
<siretart> lucas: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new
<zakame> yay!
<siretart> grab your packages today, they might be gone soon ;)
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> several of those are actually already assigned to me
<crimsun> xerces2*, for instance
<crimsun> I'll go through them in a bit
<siretart> crimsun: do you use our lpbugs.py script to claim these packages?
<siretart> if not, please do
<crimsun> siretart: nope, I've been by-handing because of limited system access
<siretart> crimsun: the thing is that sistpoty installed scripts parsing traffic on universe-bugs@ to mark those packages assigned in our postgresql
<siretart> crimsun: so please be careful about the subject lines
<crimsun> siretart: yep
<crimsun> it wouldn't be such an issue if I could bypass the entire smtp requirement, since both my pbuilder and my uni have closed off outgoing tcp/25 for _any_ machine
<crimsun> still...200 is a fine achievement
<siretart> crimsun: at university, I also have firewalled smtp
<siretart> crimsun: there I do some iptables and ssh tunneling magic to reach my smtp
<crimsun> yeah, I suppose I should work on that this afternoon
<Kyral> hey all
<zakame> hello Kyral
<Kyral> sup?
<zakame> dealing with a broken email server :(
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> I tried the 2.6.15 kernel package
<Kyral> It doesn't create an Initrd for itself >_<
* Kyral looks over the comments to EasyChem and will work on it after his PBuilders update
<Kyral> anyone know how to use dpatch? lol
<slomo> Kyral: if you have any questions regarding my comments feel free to ask me ;) but the answer can take some time, i'm only partially here
<Kyral> Yah I have no idea how to use DPatch :D
<slomo> Kyral: look at a package which already uses dpatch ;) say... monodevelop for example
<Kyral> I will prolly make an icon out of the package itself, but I am not at my computer (SSHing from my laptop :D)
<Kyral> Or....mmm, are the icons on GNOMEFiles GPL?
<slomo> partially
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> if the icon that they use for EasyChem is GPL I can use that right?
<azeem> EasyChem should just ship one if it pretends to be a GTK application
<Kyral> It doesn't
<Kyral> and I can't make sense of the homepage (Its in something I don't understand lol)
<azeem> there's an english homepage
<Kyral> there is? LOL I must have missed it
<azeem> http://easychem.sourceforge.net/
<azeem> but honestly, the user interface looks even worse than chemtool
<Kyral> I must have been thnking of another package then
<crimsun> hmm
<Kyral> slomo: I will ping you when I fix it mkay?
<slomo> sure
<Kyral> In reality I should get this pushed through before I go for Membership :D
<crimsun> Would a main uploader take a look at http://sh.nu/~crimsun/fuse/fuse_2.4.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes and upload please?
<ogra> crimsun, yup
<ogra> looks fine to me
<crimsun> ogra: thanks!
<Yagisan> crimsun: the backport of gmailfs, python-libgmail and python-fuse from sid worked fine
<crimsun> Yagisan: ok, thanks
<Yagisan> crimsun: python-fuse needs some minor tweaks to depend on python > 2.4
<crimsun> ok, will merge then.
<ogra> crimsun, done
<crimsun> ogra: thanks again :)
<Yagisan> crimsun: thank you. It will be nice to have gmailfs still working in dapper :)
<Yagisan> crimsun: may want to merge encfs too, it's a gmail suggests, and it backported fine, with dappers fuse
<crimsun> will have to test with new fuse once it's available on $ARCHes
<siretart> crimsun: again clash on xpuzzles
<siretart> ;)
<Kyral> So what exactly does a watchfile do? Just tell me when there is a new release?
<Yagisan> crimsun: I built against fuse 2.4.1 ok
<siretart> crimsun: same for xmpi, but I'd rather have requested a sync instead of merging
<slomo> Kyral: yes, and downloading the tarball for you and it can run uupdate on it... so almost no work for updating to a new version ;)
<siretart> damn. quite a lot of packages :(
<Kyral> so its a cronjob?
<slomo> Kyral: no... you have to run it manually
<siretart> crimsun: please please pretty please check that your claimed packages are really marked on sistpotys site
<crimsun> siretart: I will do that shortly; I have a presentation in a few minutes
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> so take care of everything else first :P
<Kyral> How should a ManPage for an X app go..
<slomo> Kyral: well, this is something you can do in < 1 minute (uscan)
<slomo> Kyral: look at my cowbell manpage for example...
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> now for uscan can I just rip the part about "if your package is on SourceForge" part and change the bits to my package?
<slomo> try it
<Kyral> I also don't know how to write a manpage ;P
<slomo> look at my cowbell package for an example
<Kyral> I know, but like the syntax
<slomo> it's simple xml (docbook) which is converted to a manpage through xslt at build-time
<Kyral> and I just need to find the Docbook documentation :D
<slomo> look at the xml sources of the cowbell manpage ;) you should learn enough to create your own manpage
<Seveas> hmm, wrinting manpages in xml
<Seveas> shiver
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> EasyChem doesn't have any options lol
<slomo> Seveas: easier than writing them in nroff ;)
* ogra always takes sgml
<slomo> Kyral: then leave out the options part and only do the rest ;)
* jamessan|work always writes them in nroff
<jamessan|work> then I don't have to worry about the converter messing things up
<Kyral> So basically a glorified control :P
<slomo> ogra: if you're taking docbook-sgml or -xml isn't a big difference ;)
<ogra> yup
<Kyral> so Refentry is just who wrote the manpage?
<slomo> Refentry?
<Kyral> the refentry tag
<Kyral> that section
* Seveas uses nroff, easy enough
<slomo> Kyral: refentry is the whole manpage
<Kyral> Ah
<Kyral> so refentryinfo is the part that is about who wrote it
<slomo> yes
<Kyral> I should write a Docbook Emacs mode :P
<Kyral> Now what is this about Manvolnum?
<slomo> that's the section of the manpage
<Kyral> ???
<Kyral> I always see the numbers but I have no clue what they mean
<slomo> put it in 1 ;)
<siretart> Riddell: around?
<siretart> Riddell: are you okay with syncing superkaramba from unstable?
<Kyral> Is it alright to just cut and paste the Long Desc from control into the Description for the manpage?
<slomo> sure... but first correct the description ;)
<Kyral> I rewrote the first paragraph :P
<Kyral> This is fun, learning how to write manpages :D
<Kyral> I hope you don't mind me using your cowbell manpage as a template
<Kyral> 'cept should I put down Ubuntu Linux instead of "Debian system"
<slomo> no, just use it as a template :)
<siretart> \sh: may I reassign sdcv to you?
<siretart> \sh: you updated it in breezy to new upstream version. now debian has a different orig.tar.gz, and MoM output is highly confusing
<Kyral> Now that I have it written
<Kyral> ls
<Kyral> whoops wrong window lol
<Kyral> How do I get it installed?
<Kyral> Or will dh_installman take care of it?
<slomo> look at the rules file of my cowbell package for an example ;)
<slomo> you have everything you need to know on your hdd :P
<Kyral> badly formatted changelog...
<Kyral> trailer line
<Kyral> wtf...
<\sh> siretart: do it :)
<\sh> siretart: directly please
<siretart> \sh: no, I want YOU to do it ;)
<\sh> siretart: yes...assign it directly to me :)
<\sh> sdcv? hmm...i don't find a bug about it...
<\sh> grmpf
<Kyral> PBuilding, just to see if the manpage works :D
<siretart> \sh: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/5231\
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5231: sdcv: merge new debian version In: sdcv (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5231
<\sh> siretart: can you send me the katie output to my email address?
<siretart> \sh: what katie output?
<\sh> siretart: you said it has a different orig.tar.gz
<\sh> siretart: oh i see
<bojan> see you later, guys
<Kyral> gah...
<\sh> siretart: i'll do it this evening
<siretart> thnx
<Kyral> Well this is fun
<Kyral> slomo: I copied the command to install the manpage from cowbell's rules
<Kyral> but it fails saying /usr/bin/xsltproc doesn't exist in PBuilder
<slomo> the command is for converting the docbook to a real manpage... you have to install it with dh_installman afterwards
<slomo> look at the control file and the build-depends
<slomo> at least xsltproc and docbook-xml are needed iirc
<Kyral> ah lol
<Kyral> I got docbook-xml
<Kyral> but not the other lol
<Kyral> Gah...
<Kyral> Its writing out the thing, and dh_installman is being called...does it need to be called in the install target?
<slomo> you have to give dh_installman the generated file
<slomo> otherwise it's not installed
<Kyral> thats why you have a variable set up top eh?
<slomo> but that only works for cdbs
<Kyral> oh
<Kyral> so if its called easychem.1
<Kyral> I modify the call to dh_installman to be dh_installman easychem.1
<Kyral> right?
<slomo> you can either give it to dh_installman as a parameter or by using debian/manpages
<slomo> no... dh_installman debian/manpages
<slomo> it's relative to the top of the sourcetree
<Kyral> but I don't have a debian/manpages
<slomo> create one ;)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> and put the page in there?
<slomo> content would be 'debian/easychem.1'
<slomo> without the ' obviously
<Kyral> its not a dir?
<slomo> no
<Kyral> oh lol
<slomo> man dh_installman
<slomo> read manpages ;)
<Kyral> Okay here I go again lol
<Kyral> ..could not determine section for debian/manpages
<Kyral> oh, I have to call it debian/easychem.manpages
<\sh> going home...laters
<Kyral> meh
<Kyral> still cannot get the section
<slomo> and when you add it to the dh_installman call?
<Kyral> When? In the list of stuff at the end
<Kyral> should I add it to the install section?
<slomo> for example
<Kyral> Its in the binary-arch target
<Kyral> Should it be in the install target?
<azeem> no, binary-arch is alright
<Kyral> In the call to xsltproc I make the output file debian/easychem.1
<slomo> (don't forget to remove it in clean)
<Kyral> The manpage?
<azeem> slomo: what's wrong with shipping the manpage in the diff, so you don't need to Build-Depend on xsltproc?
<slomo> azeem: nothing, but as he has it already written in docbook xml i think it's better to include this instead of something generated... and build-depends won't hurt anyone imho
<Kyral> Added a clean rule for the manpage
<slomo> but it's definitly a matter of taste
<Kyral> still getting that it cannot determine section
<slomo> yes that's another problem... but i never got this ;) afaik dh_installman looks at the suffix of the file, in this case .1 and puts it in section 1
<azeem> Kyral: so maybe the manpage does not have a section .TH line
<Kyral> a wha?
<Kyral> I know I put one in...
<slomo> Kyral: please upload the xml and generated file somewhere ;)
<Kyral> unless I made a typo in the markup
<azeem> .TH DH_INSTALLMAN 1 "2004-02-08" "4.2.32" "Debhelper"
<azeem> the "1" is the section I assume
<slomo> yes
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> its failing
<Kyral> the conversion
<slomo> upload it somewhere please
<Kyral> I uploaded the xml
<Kyral> but the command to convert it isn't working
<slomo> give me the url ;)
<Kyral> people.clarkson.edu/~petermcv/manpages
<Kyral> should be in there
<slomo> 404
<Kyral> oops
<Kyral> drop the s :P
<slomo> already tried ;)
<slomo> works
<Kyral> I'm building with DH_VERBOSE on now to see if something is going wrong
<Kyral> well, to learn :P
<slomo> 'TH "EASYCHEM" 1 "2005-11-30" "" ""'
<slomo> with a dot before ;)
<slomo> so this is right
<Kyral> should I get the buildlog from PBuilder?
<slomo> and works fine here with dh_installman
<slomo> whatever you're doing ;)
<Kyral> then my PBuilder is fubared lol
<slomo> docbook-xsl is installed too?
<Kyral> yah its in there...I'll double check
<slomo> docbook-xsl, docbook-xml and xsltproc are needed
<Kyral> all three are in the Build Depends
<slomo> *sigh*
<slomo> try pbuilding cowbell ;)
<Kyral> well, lol I didn't have docbook-xsl on my system (outside of PBuilder)
<Kyral> Yah looks right on mine (now that I have docbook-xsl on my system)
<Kyral> Cowbell builds clean
<Kyral> I'm rebuilding and logging it
<Kyral> Buildlog uploaded to the same place
<slomo> don't add debian/easychem.manpages to the dh_installman call
<slomo> either add the manpage itself there... or add debian/easychem.1 to debian/easychem.manpages and call dh_installman w/o arguments
<Kyral> ah lol
<Kyral> VICTORY!! :D :D
<slomo> :)
<Kyral> well, minor formatting error in the manpage
<Kyral> but
<Kyral> :D
<Kyral> How do you force a linebreak in the XML?
<Kyral> <br />?
<lucas> Kyral: depends whether it is XML or XHTML
<lucas> ah
* lucas just read the context
* lucas looking
<lucas> why don't you just end you <para> ?
<lucas> and start another one ?
<Kyral> eh because its not the end :P
<slomo> not the end of a paragraph? but why do you need a linebreak then? ;)
<Kyral> because when its displayed in my term my email addy is broken up :P
<Kyral> oh lol
<slomo> get a bigger terminal ;)
<Kyral> damn window size :P
<Kyral> Manpage DONE
<Kyral> wait..if I upload the new version (which I renamed 0ubuntu1 as per slomo's suggestion) what will REVU do..
<slomo> it goes by date, not by version number
<slomo> the latest upload will be shown
<slomo> date beeing upload date
<Kyral> Hey a clean Lintian run on the binary
<slomo> nice :)
<Kyral> Now just need the watch and desktop files
<slomo> and the icon... and is the description already corrected?
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> you want me to upload the control :P
<slomo> please paste the description ;) it wasn't too long iirc
<Kyral>  Create high quality pictures of molecules and 2D chemical forumulas that can
<Kyral>  be exported to PDF, PS, LaTeX and fig.
<Kyral>  EasyChem was originally developed to compose chemistry books, and is now
<Kyral>  frequently used for this purpose, in commercial and non-commercial
<Kyral>  chemistry-related books.
<Kyral>  Homepage: http://easychem.sourceforge.net
<azeem> Kyral: pictures?
<Kyral> I'm not to elegant with words :P
<Kyral> diagrams?
<slomo> hm, remove the ',' before the and
<azeem> I would expect it'd render the molecule in 3D or something
<Kyral> nah its a 2D thing
<slomo> and the ',' behind purpose
<azeem> hrm
<Kyral> should I s/pictures/diagrams?
<slomo> and imho it sounds better when you start the first sentence with the program name
<slomo> yes, diagrams sounds better
<Kyral> EasyChem is a program that helps you create high quality diagrams of molecules and 2D chemical forumulas that can be exported to PDF, PS, LaTeX and fig. EasyChem was originally developed to compose chemistry books and is now frequently used for this purpose in commercial and non-commercial chemistry-related books. Homepage: http://easychem.sourceforge.net
<Kyral> better?
<Kyral> ouch formatting lost in paste
<azeem> it sounds like you could compose whole books with it
<slomo> ..helps you with creating...
<Kyral> oy...I have to go to class
<slomo> and what azeem has told... otherwise it's fine :)
<Kyral> you can take apart my grammer in an hour :P
<slomo> ok ;)
<Kyral> incase I haven't said it I appreciate your help alot :D
<slomo> np :)
<seth_k> Whoa, I just had an Organic Chem test today, gimmie EasyChem :P
<Amaranth> i hate snow
* ogra agrees totally
<herve> hello
<Amaranth> my ride left early to get home before the snow started again and my uncle's car is buried under a drift from the last snow so i'm stuck at school :/
<dholbach> hey herv
<Kyral> seth_k: late LOL
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> I'm happy for a new kernel
<Kyral> but couldn't it look that I'm using k7 and install that instead of 386? ;P
<lucas> 386 is the arch name, not the processor type
<Kyral> I know that
<lucas> it doesn't really matter if you are using a 386 or an athlon XP from the kernel's code point of view
<Kyral> I meant that its installing 2.6.15-5-386
<Kyral> and I use the -K7 kernel as preference :P
<\sh> re
<\sh> Kyral: 386 is the arch and runs as well on amd athlon/duron/k6
<Kyral> Ah well I'll just install the k7
<Kyral> \sh I know this :P
<Kyral> but the k7 seems quicker to me on my Athlon XP
* Kyral shrugs
<lucas> that's placebo effect
<lucas> it probably doesn't improve much
* Kyral wishlists his comment :P
<lucas> like 1 or 2% ;)
<Kyral> maybe this will get NVidia-GLX working now :D
<Kyral> if I wanted to improve my kernel I'd roll all the modules I need into it
<\sh> damn...I am a lucky guy
<Kyral> oh?
<\sh> yes...I have always the luck to piss of people somehow
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch_> hey \sh
<ajmitch_> how'd you do it this time?
<\sh> thx to minghua
<ajmitch_> ?
<\sh> I just renamed atlas-cpp...which was a rename and a merge
<\sh> atlas-cpp was at this time as rev 1 in debian
<\sh> BUT
<\sh> in rev 2 debian renamed the libpackages accordingly to the old cxx trans
<\sh> and I renamed it to c2a because there was no rev 2 and no renaming
<\sh> and minghua raised this issue on d-d
<\sh> and now i have a discussion with steve l.
<\sh> fck
<ajmitch_> hm
<\sh> but what can I do, that debian is not holding on simple rules
* ajmitch_ wonders why he doesn't see any new mail on dapper-changes, ubuntu-devel, etc
<\sh> "there has to be no rename when a soname change is introduced with a new upstream"
<\sh> which happened exactly with libatlas-cpp
<\sh> because old version I renamed during cxx trans was libatlas-cpp-0.5
<\sh> now we have libatlas-cpp-0.6
<\sh> grmpf
<ajmitch_> ok
<ajmitch_> makes sense
<\sh> so debian was wrong in this case
<\sh> with their rename of libatlas-cpp-0.6 to -0.6c2
<\sh> or the maintainer was just to slow
<Kyral> Oh, ajmitch_ expect a ping soon
<ajmitch_> is this on d-d ?
<ajmitch_> Kyral: why/
<Kyral> I've been working on fixing EasyChem all day :D
<\sh> ajmitch_: jepp
<ajmitch_> ok, found the thread
<Kyral> I should really put "Thanks to slomo<Insert his real name> for all the help" into the Changelog
<ajmitch_> hm, debian library changes should really be exactly the same as what we do
<ajmitch_> ah, he had a post about potato->etch upgrades
<ajmitch_> upgrades spanning ~10 years ;)
<slomo> Kyral: look at the cowbell package for my name ;)
<Kyral> slomo: I know what it is I was just too lazy to type it ;P
<\sh> ajmitch: yes...but even then..soname change was introduced with new upstream, and atlas-cpp was never renamed to c102 somehow...(or I just don't see it)
* ajmitch_ has to get ready for work now, will discuss c++ hating later
<Kyral> Plus I dunno how to make those funny characters in the name
<slomo> Kyral: ? ;)
<Kyral> it doesn't display on this term lol
<Kyral> its a rectangle
<Seveas> Kyral, switch to an UTF-8 locale
<\sh> doko: ping
<Kyral> Stupid question: How
<\sh> doko: please tell me, that i'm doing nothing wrong :)
<herve> Kyral, this channel is in utf-8 anyway
<Kyral> then how come the character that slomo printed didn't show up
<herve> it did here
<Kyral> I meant on my screen, sorry
<herve> you're using xchat?
<Kyral> Irssi
<Kyral> + Xterm
<herve> argh
<lucas> Seveas: it has nothing to do with the locale
<herve> I don't know then
<lucas> it has to do with the font he is using
* Kyral falls down
<lucas> if he was using a non-UTF-8, it wouldn't display as one rectangle, but as several rectangles :-)
<Seveas> standard ubuntu fonts are utf8 fonts
<Kyral> Monospace 10
<Kyral> is what XTerm is set to
<lucas> you are really using xterm ?
<lucas> xterm sometimes does strange things regarding non-ascii chars
<lucas> if you find gnome-terminal too slow, you should have a look at urxvt
<lucas> (or aterm, but it doesn't support UTF-8)
<\sh> Kyral: well..it's that what xterm will get from the fontconfig
<\sh> Kyral: the settings you can adjust somehow in .Xdefaults-<hostname>
<Kyral> ah
<\sh> Kyral: man xterm and you see all resources of xterm
<\sh> have a look as well in /etc/X11/app-defaults/XTerm
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> I've been meaning to change the keyboard shortcuts anyway
<\sh> and yes there is a bug upstream that xterm doesn't load XTerm-color app-defaults...this is known and upstream tries to fix
<Kyral> I didn't even notice lol
<ajmitch_> sigh
<Kyral> hmm, all the characters display fine in the manpage for cowbell
<ajmitch_> malone 3547
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3547: OpenAFS does not work In: openafs (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3547
<\sh> Kyral: me neither, fabbiones friend but...and now I traced it..and we actually don't know if it's a problem in Xorg or more in xterm
<ajmitch_> some bug submitters....
<ajmitch_> see the last comment on that one if you want to be annoyed
<Kyral> no thanks
* Kyral goes to investiagate DPatch
<\sh> ajmitch: he is right :)
<ajmitch_> that we're lazy? ;)
<\sh> no i mean bjoern torkelson
<\sh> the last comment
<\sh> oh u mean brenden
<ajmitch_> yeah sorry
* ajmitch_ should have hit refresh ;)
<\sh> well...
<ajmitch_> the one which annoyed me
<\sh> it's a gentoo user
<Kyral> Is there anyway to generate a .dpatch file like you generate a debdiff?
<ajmitch_> I know..
<\sh> dpatch-edit-patch?
<herve> Kyral, dpatch-edit-patch
* ajmitch_ shoul go, bbl :)
<\sh> Kyral: but stay away from dpatch...use the normal approach :)
<\sh> diff -ur
<Kyral> eh?
<\sh> and use simple-patchsys
<\sh> IF you need a patch system
<Kyral> nah I patched the Makefile of EasyChem and in his comment slomo suggested making it a patch
<torkel> \sh: huh?
<Kyral> instead of relying on the diff.gz
<\sh> torkel: we were just talking about the guy you commented on in bug #3547
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3547: OpenAFS does not work In: openafs (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3547
<\sh> Kyral: is there already a patch system used in this package?
<Kyral> nope
<Kyral> its a brand new package
<\sh> oh..then
<\sh> then I buy some beer...and check my washing on the same way :)
<\sh> brb
* Kyral falls down
<torkel> \sh: ah, It wasn't my answer you were complaining about :-)
<Kyral> Then should I put a patch system in or leave it to the diff.gz
<slomo> Kyral: whatever you like more... but i prefer separated patches
* jamessan|work too
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> then whats the quick and dirty way to do this lol
<Kyral> I mean I thought I could just take a diff of the file I modified and use that as the patch
<slomo> make a normal diff for this patch and look at hm, for example monodevelop how dpatches have to look like ;)
<Kyral> I have the XChat source packge :P
<herve> ho no
<herve> there are already doc on the wiki about dpatch
<herve> and dpatch-edit-patch really is simple
<jamessan|work> or cdbs-edit-patch if you're already using cdbs
<herve> right
<slomo> or that... yes
<Kyral> its in the wiki?
<Kyral> Where?
<herve> search "dpatch" :-)
<Kyral> I did
<Kyral> nothing
<Kyral> We are talking about the UbuntuWiki right?
<herve> I remember an introductory post on tseng's blog
<herve> yep
<Kyral> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=dpatch&titlesearch=Titles
<herve> maybe in a "ubuntu developer resources" page
<herve> don't search just title
<herve> but the body
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I found it
<Kyral> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/HowToPatch?highlight=%28dpatch%29
<herve> nice page title :-)
<Kyral> said to patch the source and put the diff in debian/ubuntu-patches :P
<herve> dpatch-edit-dpatch does pretty much that in a proper way :-)
* Kyral falls down
<herve> arghn tseng's site is down
<Kyral> So I run dpatch-edit-dpatch <patchname> in the sourcedir?
<Kyral> or should I give it the name of the orig.tar.gz?
<herve> you give your future patch's name
<herve> dpatch will create some copy of you source
<herve> you edit the files
<herve> you exit
<herve> and dpatch will make the patch for you
<herve> the issue is to make your package aware of dpatch when building
<Kyral> but does it look for the orig.tar.gz in the working dir?
<Kyral> or in the dir above?
<Kyral> ie, where should I execute the command from :P
<herve> it just works TM
<herve> :-)
<herve> ha, from the parent of the debian/ dir I would say
<Kyral> any naming convention I should use?
<herve> there are yes
<Kyral> I'm just gonna call it 01_installrule.dpatch
<herve> hmm
<herve> not really helpful
<Kyral> Thats what it does
<Kyral> it puts an install rule into the Makefile
<herve> and in a full sentence?
<herve> or just add an underscore between "install" and "rule"
<herve> to separate the words
<herve> an "installrule" is not really obvious
<Kyral> it crashed out
<herve> haha
<herve> murphy's law :-)
<Kyral> No rule to make target unpatch stop
<herve> ha, that's the package integration part
<herve> but simply
<herve> check /usr/share/doc/dpatch
<Kyral> How can I make the patch if dpatch-edit-patch crashes lol
<herve> you have to change your debian/rules
<Kyral> Yah I see the example in man dpatch
<Kyral> I should just use that as a template right?
<herve> let me check
<herve> this is inspiration yes
<herve> ymmv
<Kyral> hmm?
<Kyral> so is that a yes or no lol
<herve> both :-)
<Kyral> ...
<herve> erm, no
* Kyral falls down
<\sh> wow
<herve> is is an example, just don't copy/paste
<herve> merge it with your own rules
<Kyral> I know that
<\sh> actually it wasn't my fault with atlas-cpp
<Kyral> I meant edit to use as a template for MY rules
<\sh> the first time I'm not clueless
<herve> Kyral, keep your rules, just add the targets and the dpatch.mk inclusion
<Kyral> dpatch.mk?
<Kyral> Isn't that CDBS?
<\sh> no
<Kyral> oh
<herve> you have cdbs?
<Kyral> no
<herve> I think we're both lost here :-)
<Kyral> well, I have it installed
<Kyral> but I don't use it
<herve> good :-)
<herve> now you have to activate dpatch for your package
<Kyral> So I need to pull the original makefile out
<herve> there's an include plus two targets to add
<herve> keep the original makefile for now
<Kyral> I meant replace it
<Kyral> I modified it already
<\sh> herve: why are you teaching him dpatch...kyral should learn the right way (tm) of diffing orig source and patched source and learn how to write simple patch and unpatch targets in debian/rules ;)
* Kyral falls down
<herve> \sh, I do because no one is teaching him simplepatchsys
<herve> simply :-)
<\sh> herve: what?
<\sh> ah come on....
<herve> I just know dpatch
<Kyral> I feel like I'm in the middle of a GNOME vs. KDE war....
<Kyral> lol
<herve> so I can't help him any other way
<siretart> patchsystems are for whiners. real man use vcs :-P
<herve> yeah, don't run away to teach him simple patchsys
<Kyral> ...
<Kyral> oy...
<\sh> wow
<\sh> konversation doesn't like simple patches
<herve> Kyral, first time I used dpatch, I copied on an existing package
<\sh> because it's cdbs
<\sh> heh
<\sh> ok...kyral...you want to learn the real way of patching?
<Kyral> sure
<\sh> ok
<\sh> join #ubuntu-motu-school :)
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> herve: you?
<herve> that was the bell I was hearing!
<herve> I'm your man
<LaserJock> Kyral: oh man, I think I just got flamed on ubuntuforums
<Kyral> LJ later, I'm gettin' me edumacation, MOTUStyle :P
<LaserJock> Kyral: I see, just check out http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=533295&postcount=162 sometime ;-)
<LaserJock> I feel bad, maybe I shouldn't have said anything. Darn it
<azeem> LaserJock: I uploaded ghemical-1.91 now, btw
<LaserJock> azeem: oh, sweet. To Debian sid?
<azeem> yes
<azeem> along with mpqc, libghemical and mopac7
<LaserJock> very, cool.
<LaserJock> I actually need to do some work with ghemical this week so that will be handy
<bojan> hi all!
<azeem> I enabled multithreading as well (d'oh), so it should be a bit nicer as well
<LaserJock> nice
<minghua> LaserJock: very well written post (I didn't read through the old ones though)
<LaserJock> minghua: I don't know if it is worth it anymore. I used to like the forums but no it seems like it is just complaints, a lot less helping people.
<minghua> LaserJock: I used to hang out in (non-linux) forums a lot.  But the first time I started to touch linux, I found the forums much less useful than google and mailing lists.  So I never liked linux forums.
<minghua> LaserJock: And the Chinese linux forums I read has even more complaints
<lucas> the problem with forums is that old-timers don't like them
<lucas> so the average level of technical expertise is lower than in mailing lists
* ajmitch has read some of the forums, but hasn't bothered to post yet
<minghua> From my experience, forums are less efficient than mailing lists, so although I'm quite new to linux, I don't like forums either
<minghua> For mailing lists, I can post using my mutt (and more importantly, vim), and searching is also easier and faster to do locally
<LaserJock> well, I just got frustrated that there are these 2 guys that spent 17 arguing that dapper sucks because it isn't Debian or Slack and they give the devs a bad rap and a lot of times nobody responds so other users think the devs don't care
<minghua> Oh, and threading as well
<LaserJock> 17 pages I mean
<anavim> !lart those guys
<siretart> why larting them? just /ignore them
<anavim> huh?  they're still here?
<siretart> oh wait. webforums often dont support this. I see..
<minghua> IMHO devs should just ignore users who use dapper at this dapper and just complain instead of reporting bugs
* anavim reads up
<anavim> oh, forums
<minghua> s/at this dapper/at this time/
<anavim> nm
<LaserJock> well ignoring is fine for us but the other users out there aren't ignoring them and that is the problem to me
<ajmitch> people get the impression that ubuntu is broken, and that developers only care about themselves or money
* anavim gave up on ubuntu forums last march  :)
<siretart> ajmitch: this applies mainly for ppl who are actually reading such threads
<LaserJock> I was used to using the Gentoo forums a lot and so I just naturally went to the ubuntuforums. But now I find irc and the wiki a lot more helpful
<ajmitch> siretart: yep
<ajmitch> siretart: reading the 'why is dapper so broken' thread was depressing
<anavim> oh boy, another flamefest... maybe someone should post an article on what "software-in-development" means
<anavim> and looks like
<minghua> LaserJock: I am not against clarifying on forums, I just don't have that time (or motive) to do it myself
* ajmitch has no energy for flamewars
<Gloubiboulga> hi
<ajmitch> hello
<siretart> ajmitch: which forum are we talking about?
<ajmitch> ubuntuforums.org
<siretart> oh
<LaserJock> minghua: me neither, that was really the first time for me. I am pretty disappointed. I guess I shoulda known better ;-)
<siretart> and the moderators didn't do anything about that?
<siretart> well, anyway.
<siretart> they even have somewhere a point. dapper is atm quite broken.
<siretart> but thats on purpose, and thats okay.
<ajmitch> yes, but they expected dapper development to be breezy+some stabilisation
<LaserJock> siretart: I think the point of the thread was that it shouldn't be broken in the first place because sid isn't
<siretart> well, they are wrong.
<lucas> nobody should *use* dapper
<ajmitch> lucas: I do
<minghua> some people are just too used to the (almost) usable state of debian testing/unstable
<siretart> LaserJock: developers should
<lucas> pinning between breezy and dapper for some packages is enough
<lucas> ajmitch: you work on ubuntu for your day job ?
<minghua> dapper is what a development branch is supposed to look like :-)
<ajmitch> even though large numbers of packages are uninstallable at a time :)
<siretart> LaserJock: so the actors have no idea about the development model in debian and ubuntu. great
<ajmitch> lucas: no, I have the misfortune of working on winXP
<lucas> oh :/
<ajmitch> but I would happily use my home box for my day job
<anavim> LaserJock, don't be disappointed.  the guy flaming you just wants to prove he used to be a 1337 slackware developer
<lucas> you can't ssh to it ?
<ajmitch> if it weren't for the fact that I need IE :)
<LaserJock> siretart: my post is at http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=533295&posted=1#post533295 I tried
<dholbach> shall we start on writing the motu report early this time? :-D
<ajmitch> lucas: sure, what do you think I'm doing now?
<lucas> ah :-)
* lucas forgot you were in .nz
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft *hint*
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm the opposite, I have Ubuntu at work, XP at home
<siretart> LaserJock: sorry. thats the reason why I don't read webforums at all
<ajmitch> dholbach: when was the last report?
<Kyral> I help on UbuntuForums
<Kyral> but mainly in ABT
<dholbach> ajmitch: 2,5 weeks ago, because we were late due to ubz
<rave_> hey guys
<rave_> check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTULogo
<Kyral> There is a reason I ddin't post into that thread
<dholbach> ajmitch: but we should try to make it happen earlier this time and there is enough to report (merging stuff, new tools, new teams, new motus, ...)
<ajmitch> ok
<Kyral> MOTUScience :D
<dholbach> ajmitch: maybe even new software we got in - something the new motus/motuwannabes want to tell us
<ajmitch> just say that \sh is doing all the MOTU work & you'll be fine ;)
<dholbach> Kyral: if you want to write some bits about it, that's be cool
<ajmitch> he's currently running classes on how to patch
<Kyral> and \sh's inpromptu class :D
<siretart> rave_: I like prop1.gif best
<rave_> let me chec
<rave_> i made more then a few
<rave_> so i need to see wich one that is
<siretart> despite the spelling ;)
<rave_> ow no
<rave_> ow shit i see :)
<rave_> lol
<LaserJock> siretart: I like it to but maybe it should have more of a Ubuntu color scheme?
<rave_> things can be fixed
<Gloubiboulga> did anyone tried to build anything using libqt3-mt-dev these days ?
<siretart> LaserJock: yes
<dholbach> ajmitch: and we could have a logo competition
<LaserJock> dholbach: what do you mean by "MOTU hopefuls"?
<Kyral> Us!
<dholbach> LaserJock: people hopefully being motus soon :)
* dholbach hugs you all
<ajmitch> dholbach: yes :)
<dholbach> excellent
<LaserJock> I'll add something about MOTUScience too
<dholbach> cool
* ajmitch doesn't have anything useful to add
<dholbach> just everybody add something about the last month in motu land
* siretart remembers back to the time before hoary release
<dholbach> can be just a one-liner
<siretart> dholbach: how many motus where active that time?
<ajmitch> siretart: not many
<ajmitch> siretart: I wasn't very active
<siretart> I think less than 10 active motus
<rave_> Gloubiboulga did anyone tried to build anything using libqt3-mt-dev these days ?
<dholbach> ajmitch: according to your memory you NEVER were active :)
<rave_> yes skype today
<ajmitch> dholbach: I did about 20-30 hoary uploads
<ajmitch> I'm sure I've done more for dapper
<ajmitch> or I will have soon ;)
<Gloubiboulga> rave_, the include/ directory doesn't exist any more in /usr/share/qt3 in dapper...
<Gloubiboulga> I can't build qjackctl
<ajmitch> dholbach: mention the mailing list
<dholbach> yeah that too
<anavim> LaserJock, looks like it's time to post on ubuntu forums again  :)
<dholbach> you have so many good ideas, just DO IT! :)
<ajmitch> hah
<LaserJock> dholbach: ok, I added some stuff
<dholbach> LaserJock: super, thank you
<dholbach> LaserJock: i will look at it tomorrow
<dholbach> LaserJock: and add some stuff myself
<LaserJock> k
<dholbach> so we can get the report out a bit earlier this time ;)
<Kyral> I'll do something to the report
<Kyral> what should I do to it
<Kyral> add the log from \sh's class? :P
<dholbach> whatever you think people in general should know about the last month in motu land
<dholbach> we could start doing interviews? :-p
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> interview \sh!
<Kyral> I actually love this whole class thing  :D
<ajmitch> or interview the new MOTUs
<dholbach> yeah
<Kyral> Interview Mark/
<dholbach> he's not a motu
<dholbach> not yet
<LaserJock> I think that having something like #ubuntu-motu-school more often would be very cool
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yep
<dholbach> LaserJock: talk to keybuk and announce the idea on main
<ajmitch> \sh: good idea ;)
<Kyral> My left shift key is half busted :P
<dholbach> keybuk had the idea too
<\sh> ajmitch_: hehe :)
<Kyral> </Random>
<ajmitch> I think we could write up the irc logs in a nice tutorial format
<dholbach> yeah, it would serve documentation as well
<dholbach> i think the idea is sound
<LaserJock> I would like to get an archive of them that the packaging guide could draw from
<LaserJock> man we are brilliant today
<Kyral> Indeed
<Kyral> LJ when do you want me to throw something together about multiple PBUilders?
<LaserJock> Kyral: well, not sure. You can always throw together something whenever you want and then we can incorporate it later
<\sh> guys...it was just spontanously
<Kyral> But its a good idea :D
<\sh> and my washing is still in my machine
<LaserJock> but we could have a different "teacher" or subject each time
* lucas doing his first merge (I chose an easy one ;)
<\sh> dholbach: don't mention it in your report :()
<\sh> LaserJock: if you like it...we will do so..
<lucas> how long does it usually takes between "./lpbugs.py -n srcpkg" and the bug get assigned a number ?
<dholbach> \sh: what?
<\sh> ubuntu-motu-school
<ajmitch> \sh: we could probably schedule some extra classes
<dholbach> i like the idea
<\sh> dholbach: even amu thought i was joking :)
<ajmitch> get a willing teacher & announce a time
<ajmitch> nothing too formal
<dholbach> and it'd be great to have some guys from main to talk about stuff
<Kyral> yah
<dholbach> and we could take it, reformat it and have some documentation
<minghua> I thought \sh was joking, too :-(
<lucas> siretart: I'd say your mail got lost in the cyberspace
<siretart> lucas: damn. I'll resend
<\sh> minghua: why should I be joking about this?
<lucas> how often are bugs sent to new@bugs.launchpad.net processed ?
<siretart> lucas: usually within 5 to 10 mins
<lucas> ok
<minghua> \sh: Err..  because #ubuntu-motu-school sounds too dramatic?
<minghua> \sh: anyway, I am in your class now :-)
<rave_> #ubuntu-motu-bootcamp
<rave_> :p
* siretart is getting brave and does a partial dapper upgrade :)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> We got a new Kernel
<Kyral> complete with LRM now :D
<lucas> erm, is there some sort of whitelisting which would prevent my mail for new@bugs.launchpad.net from reaching its target ?
<siretart> and this makes me sceptical
<ogra> be very carful
<siretart> you know, I really need madwifi
<Kyral> Always keep a backup kernel!
<Kyral> siretart: so do I
* ogra is currently on his edubuntu partition... 
<ogra> it doesnt boot
<Kyral> lol
<siretart> Kyral: the new udev requires the new kernel
<Kyral> new udev huh?
<ogra> the new udev breaks the initramfs ...
<Kyral> oh
<ogra> at least for me it did
<Kyral> so THATS why it didn't make an initrd for itself
<siretart> I just upgrade apt, aptitude, and friends
<xhaker> siretart, have you update-initramfs -u ?
<xhaker> i meant.. ogra
<siretart> xhaker: I have initramfs-tools from breezy on my laptop here
<siretart> ah
<ogra> xhaker, i dpkg-reconfigured the whole linux-image
<ogra> indeed
<lifeless> does anyone here know multisync internals ?
<lifeless> or where the right place to chat to people about it is ?
<xhaker> ogra.. now i'm affraid to boot
<xhaker> lol
<ogra> lifeless, azeem does
<siretart> I doubt anyone knows
<xhaker> reboot
<lifeless> ogra: thanks!
<lifeless> azeem: ping ^^
* azeem hides
<ogra> heh
<azeem> lifeless: what do you mean `internals'?
<ajmitch> rave_: for 3172, did you attach a debdiff?
<rave_> yes
<lifeless> azeem: I need to debug a problem :[. I have a new phone - a v600 ericsson, which is apparently a rebadged k600.
<lifeless> azeem: when I edit a contact in evo and sync it, the contact *disappears* from the phones UI.
<rave_> ajmitch let me give you the url to the last valid version
<lifeless> azeem: by edit I mean add a phone number or email address
<jamessan|work> \sh++ for the excellent tutorial
<lifeless> azeem: but just changing the name does not do that
<ajmitch> rave_: the last attached file seems to have a *lot* of junk in it :)
<rave_> well it was a debdiff
<rave_> lets check if we are talking about the same file
<lifeless> azeem: so I figure I need to get a good dump of the sync traffic that is happening, and also try some specific sync requests to see if I can find a way to make it not do this.
<lifeless> azeem: thus -> internals of multisync & also talk to the devs.
<rave_> ajmitch http://librarian.launchpad.net/1186951/pure-ftpd_1.0.19-7ubuntu1.diff <<-- that was my last debdiff
<azeem> lifeless: I suggest you try #multisync
<azeem> abauer is the main dev
<azeem> lifeless: but note, multisync has been deprecated
<lifeless> oh?
<azeem> it's all about opensync now
<lifeless> is that packages ?
<ajmitch> no, but I was looking at packagign it last night
<ajmitch> so I might try & have packages soon
<lifeless> how ready is it ?
<lifeless> is it the same code base ?
<ajmitch> multisync now uses opensync as its base
<ajmitch> they're aiming for early 2006 1.0 release
<rave_> ajmitch did you see my patch for makeztxt as well ?
<azeem> cool
<azeem> finally ajmitch does my work
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> azeem: your work?
<azeem> well, I promised it to myself to get multisync back into shape and package opensync for D
<ajmitch> rave_: a debdiff should be much smaller :)
<ajmitch> I'll take a look
<rave_> ajmitch i did :: debdiff pure-ftpd_1.0.19.4.dsc pure-ftpd_1.0.19-7.dsc
<rave_> and commited that to the diff you recved from me
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> not so good
<rave_> want the 2 dsc files ?
<rave_> then you can see for your self
<ajmitch> please just attach the output of debdiff pure-ftpd_1.0.19-7.dsc pure-ftpd_1.0.19-7ubuntu1.dsc
<ajmitch> I can fetch 1.0.19-7 from debian
<rave_> i did the debdiff from 1.0.19.4
<rave_> since that was on breezy
<ajmitch> yep
<rave_> and bugged
<rave_> so thats what your seeing
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> I'm seeing much much more, unless the debian/rules is horribly broken
<rave_> ddnt touch it
<ajmitch> since there are a lot of generated files
<azeem> lifeless: anyway, I also had issues when trying to sync my Siemens mobile
<rave_> i can email you pure-ftpd_1.0.19-4 and pure-ftpd_1.0.19-7 so you can check
<azeem> lifeless: my plan was to update the multisync package to current 0.8x CVS, apparently there will be no more commits to that branch
<rave_> also newly created debfiles because the only file i changed was
<rave_> control
<rave_> and added depend : inetd
<ajmitch> rave_: please, just the output of  debdiff pure-ftpd_1.0.19-7.dsc pure-ftpd_1.0.19-7ubuntu1.dsc
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> it should be only a few lines instead of several thousand
<dholbach> how about a new review day?
<dholbach> announce it with the motu report?
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> 1 week from now?
<ajmitch> sat 10th december?
<dholbach> weekend?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> that weekend would be good
<ajmitch> or this one
<dholbach> maybe we can discuss the date on our new MAILING LIST :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> yay, diablo-d3 trolling again on -devel
<\sh> phew
<\sh> what?
<\sh> new ml list?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> ubuntu-motu
<ajmitch> see lists.ubuntu.com
<\sh> woot..
<\sh> kewl
<dholbach> :-D
<\sh> wow...two new things today :) what a day
<\sh> THANK YOU GOD !
<\sh> ah no...not u bddebian :()
* lucas needs help
<\sh> dholbach: announce the new "Ubuntu MOTU School"
<lucas> I tried to work on the merge of libgettext-ruby
<lucas> so I justed motu-tools to run ./lpbugs.py -n libgettext-ruby
<lucas> my mail was sent
<dholbach> \sh: go ahead :)
<lucas> but there's no bug created on launchpad
<lucas> is there a whitelisting swhere ?
<dholbach> \sh: maybe check if more people would like to have a different name :)
<dholbach> hey lllmanulll :)
<lllmanulll> Hey :)
<\sh> dholbach: why? I think the name is nice...because we all will join :)
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> i see :)
<\sh> that means even DDs and old MOTUs and old MAINs can stay there and listen and learn :)
<lucas> am I being ignored by everybody here ? :/
<lifeless> azeem: sounds good
<rave_> oops
<rave_> wrong button :|
<\sh> lucas: your email should be in your LP account
<dholbach> lucas: to be honest, i didn't have much time to look into motutools yet, sorry
<lifeless> lucas: no
<lucas> dholbach: this has nothing to do with motutools
<lucas> I am trying to work on a merge
<\sh> lucas: check the sending email address on your email server....
<lucas> \sh: the one confirmed ?
<lucas> ok ..
<lucas> that might be the issue
<lucas> ok
<\sh> lucas: the sending email address must be mentioned in your LP account
<\sh> and you need your gpg key in your LP account as well
<lucas> why doesn't lpbugs run sendmail with -f sender ?
<rave_> ajmitch what did i miss ? i touched the wrong button
<lucas> it seems it doesn't set the envelope's from
<lifeless> because thats your MUA's job
<lifeless> setup mail correctly;0
<ajmitch> rave_: please don't use >>, I want a clean debdiff :)
<ajmitch> instead of apppending
<lucas> lifeless: s/MUA/MTA ?
<lifeless> MUA
<lifeless> -user-
<rave_> ajmitch did you see a double entry ?
<rave_> or did you suggest it ?
<lucas> well, when I send a mail using lpbugs, lpbugs is my MUA
<ajmitch> rave_: in your last comment I saw on launchpad
<rave_> ajmitch let me get you a clean diff
<siretart> lucas: why should it use -f?
<rave_> can i email you directly ?
<ajmitch> yes
<lucas> to set the envelope's from
<siretart> lucas: it is the job of your mta to do necessary rewriting
<lucas> not just the From in the DATA part of the mail
<lucas> no
<rave_> ajmitch whats your email ?
<lucas> (also, filtering on the envelope's from is a bad idea)
<ajmitch> rave_: ajmitch@win.co.nz, my other account is having issues today
<rave_> oki
<siretart> *shrug*
<rave_> hold on patch will fly the digital high way :)
<lucas> ok, I used the smtp transport
<lucas> this works
<siretart> lucas: does cron (or other system tools using /sbin/sendmail directly) send mails with correct Return-Path/From?
<lucas> they send mail with address:
<lucas> username_on_local_system@mail_system_name
<lucas> if your system is blop.siretart.org, this would be cron@blop.siretart.org
<lucas> the problem with lpbugs is that you have to hijack the envelope's from address to get accepted
<lucas> since launchpad looks at the envelope's from and not the mail's from
<\sh> lucas: u should do some rewritings
<lucas> well it's more launchpad's fault than lpbugs' fault, but it's easier to fix it in lpbugs ;)
<siretart> lucas: nope. my system name is 'hades.olymp.tauware.de', but mails send from that laptop should sound 'siretart@tauware.de'
<siretart> and thats why lpbugs.py works for me
<ajmitch> lucas: send via smtp, rather than sendmail :)
<lucas> ajmitch: I did, it worked, but I spent 30mins trying to figure out what was wrong
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> I had exactly the same thing
<ajmitch> until kiko told me where my emails were bouncing from
<lifeless> lucas: envelope from has to be valid too
<lifeless> lucas: thers a big myth that it does not matter, but unfortunately that myth is bullshit
<rave_> ajmitch you got email
<lifeless> lucas: its *entirely* appropriate for automated systems to deal with the envelope from until they consider it 'delivered'
<ajmitch> rave_: no, it's going slow today :)
<lucas> lifeless: yup, but launchpad should look at the mail's from to compare it with the emails you registered
<rave_> i just posted it 10 sec ago so dont wurry :)
<lucas> anyway, the easiest is just to forge the mail and use SMTP directly.
<lifeless> lucas: uh? Just fix your config
<lifeless> should be 1 minutes wor
<lifeless> k
<lifeless> lucas: are you using postfix or exim ?
<lucas> postfix
<lucas> say my system is blop.lucas.org. my default envelope from is lucas@blop.lucas.org
<ajmitch> rave_: that package must have some horrendous cleaning failures
<lucas> but I need to use lucas@lucas.org to get to launchpad
<lucas> both work
<ajmitch> --- pure-ftpd-1.0.19.orig/configuration-file/Makefile
<ajmitch> +++ pure-ftpd-1.0.19/configuration-file/Makefile
<lifeless> lucas: hmm. I misunderstood the issue being reported
<lucas> but I have to forge the envelope from too in lpbugs, or register lucas@blop.lucas.org as my email in LP
<lifeless> lucas: that is indeed a bug in lp
<siretart> for exim, just edit /etc/email-addresses
<lifeless> can you file it in malone ?
<lucas> yes I will
<Kyral> hmm
<lifeless> be sure to note that the envelope sender is correct in this case, and that it should not be considered by lp in terms of mail validity.
<siretart> just out of interest, how to configure rewriting in postfix?
<Kyral> can't setup bootchart
<lucas> when working on merges, how do you check that the package builds on dapper ? (ie where do you download source from, etc) ?
<dholbach> packages.debian.org/src:<srcpkg>
<ajmitch> rave_: you still didn't debdiff against 1.0.19-7, did you?
<dholbach> and after hte merge i build it in a dapper pbuilder
<ajmitch> since all the patch hunks that matter are rejected
<lucas> ok
<rave_> ajmitch no packages.ubuntu.com showed me the dsc of 10.19-4
<rave_> so i used that
<rave_> and the org source as well
<ajmitch> I asked you not to
<ajmitch> since 1.0.19-7 is in dapper
<Kyral> Whats the command to force Initrd to update again?
<ajmitch> & I requested a debdiff against that
<rave_> ajmitch im sorry
<rave_> let me correct that
<ajmitch> since we're only uploading fixes like this to dapper
<ajmitch> so the fix has to be made for dapper (eg in debian/changelog)
<ajmitch> +pure-ftpd (1.0.19-7ubuntu1) unstable; urgency=low
<ajmitch> you can't have unstable there
<rave_> ipure-ftpd (1.0.19-7) [universe] 
<rave_> i see now
<rave_> sorry
<rave_> my bad
<rave_> :|
* ajmitch still makes that mistake often enough
<rave_> you will have with in 10 min
<rave_> its only a fix in control
<ajmitch> yep
<\sh> ajmitch: we all do mistakes :)
<ajmitch> but it's valuable learning for you ;)
<siretart> but for us, katie tells us stories ;)
* Kyral tries to think of a good icon for EasyChem
<rave_> ajmitch yes thanks !
<ajmitch> Kyral: caffiene molecule
<Kyral> You want to whip it up I'll put it in there :P
<Kyral> but putting caffine into a 48x48 image?
<ajmitch> no, you should use your tools to make it :)
<Kyral> I can't make GFX worth shit :P
<rave_> making changelog ...
<rave_> ubuntu1 right ?
<ajmitch> yes
<rave_> oki
<rave_> unstable must be dapper
<rave_> if im correct
<ajmitch> yes
<rave_> im getting good in this :p
<rave_> building :)
<ajmitch> rave_: you can just do debuild -S
<ajmitch> to get a source package
<ajmitch> rather than rebuilding it everytime
<rave_> hmmm
<rave_> i did : dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -k<mykey>
<ajmitch> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S
<rave_> darn the debdiff is small now
<ajmitch> no need to sign, because your key isn't in the ubuntu keyring
<rave_> rave@ubuntu:~/pure$ debdiff pure-ftpd_1.0.19-7.dsc pure-ftpd_1.0.19-8ubuntu1.dsc | wc -l
<rave_> 28
<rave_> rave@ubuntu:~/pure$
<ajmitch> that's better
<rave_> :)
<ajmitch> rather than 12000 lines
<rave_> lol yeah :)
<rave_> let me send it to you
<ajmitch> ok
<rave_> firebird crash
* rave_ runs to launchpag
<\sh> dholbach: did u subscribed all MOTUs?
<rave_> *pad
<\sh> dholbach: to the new list?
<dholbach> \sh: no
<\sh> dholbach: ok...so I'll subscribe manually
<rave_> ajmitch your email crashes firebird on reply :p
<rave_> *thunderbird
<ajmitch> yay
<anavim> LaserJock, I pitched my $0.02 in - I'm adamw on ubuntu forums - http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=533556&posted=1#post533556
<rave_> ajmitch ... send ...
<sistpoty> hi folks
<rave_> hii
<ajmitch> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> seems like siretart wants to beat \sh during merges *g*
<siretart> huhu?
<siretart> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<sistpoty> you spam my inbox ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: there is no run actually
<LaserJock> anavim: cool, good post
<siretart> sure, because I have no chance against \sh anyway ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> ah go away you
<siretart> :)
<\sh> I just had a hard lesson :)
<dholbach> good night everybody
<sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<siretart> gn8 dholbach
<rave_> ajmitch ... look
<rave_> +pure-ftpd (1.0.19-8ubuntu1) unstable; urgency=low
<\sh> cu dholbach
<rave_> should be
<LaserJock> good night dholbach
<rave_> +pure-ftpd (1.0.19-8ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low
<ajmitch> rave_: -8?
<siretart> sistpoty: did you notice, we have now a ubuntu-motu mailing list!
<ajmitch> sorry, you were changing 1.0.19-7, right?
<rave_> ajmitch yes
<sistpoty> siretart: I did and I'm subscribed ;)
<ajmitch> so it should be 1.0.19-7ubuntu1
<siretart> :)
<rave_> it was that already
<rave_> and dhc -i changed it to -8
<ajmitch> ignore what dch says
<rave_> i didnt read that on the wiki :p
<ajmitch> it must be 1.0.19-7ubuntu1 :)
<rave_> ok
<rave_> fixing ...
<rave_> sorry for the redo`s
<ajmitch> thanks
<rave_> :|
<rave_> pure-ftpd (1.0.19-7ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low
<rave_> jackpot ?
<ajmitch> looks better
<rave_> good
<rave_> what was the buildpackage again you mentioned ?
<ajmitch> debuild -S
<rave_> ok
<ajmitch> you might want to install devscripts if you haven't already
<rave_>  did that already
<rave_> sudo debuild -S
<ajmitch> no need to do sudo
<rave_> W: pure-ftpd source: ancient-standards-version 3.5.2
<rave_> W: pure-ftpd source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<rave_> W: pure-ftpd source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 1.0.19-7ubuntu1
<rave_> W: pure-ftpd source: configure-generated-file-in-source config.log
<rave_> normal ?
<rave_> the 2nd from below ?
<ajmitch> yes
<rave_> oki
<ajmitch> the config.log part is annoying though
<rave_> :|
<rave_> aborted
<ajmitch> hm?
* ajmitch has to go out in a few minutes
<rave_> can i paste 10 lines ?
<ajmitch> not in here
<ajmitch> use a pastebin
<rave_> np fixed it
<ajmitch> ok
* rave_ writes down every step in his patching guide
<rave_> btw did you see my MOTU logo ?
<rave_> on wiki..../MOTUlogo ?
* lucas did his first two merges today :-)
<rave_> lucas im so proude of you !
<rave_> :)
<rave_> thats better then my bug fixing :p
* lucas took two easy packages that only needed syncing
<lucas> heh
<lucas> looks like ;)
<rave_> i will learn in the end :)
<rave_> because im writing everything down
<rave_> the do`s and do not`s
<lucas> write them swhere on the wiki
<rave_> yeah thats a good idea :)
<ajmitch> ok, time to go
<ajmitch> bbl
<rave_> i will if my patch is successfull
<rave_> ajmitch do you mail me if its okey ?
<sistpoty> l8er ajmitch
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-06
<sistpoty> rave_: cool logos :)
<lucas> rave_: you can temporarly write this down on your own wiki page
<lucas> and move it elsewhere later
<rave_> sistpoty thanks thanks :)
<rave_> i will add some more and fix the typeo`s
<rave_> from ununtu to ubuntu lol
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> rave_: I personally like the first best
<sistpoty> but the others are cool as well
<rave_> logo1 ?
<sistpoty> yep
<rave_> :D hehe that one has no typo
<rave_> it would be cool if one officilial logo comes from that
<rave_> @ the same time it could start a compatition on the site
<siretart> ok folks, /me goes to bed
<siretart> sistpoty: we see us tomorrow, 1400, yes?
<sistpoty> siretart: yes, we do
<sistpoty> gn8 siretart
<rave_> sleep well
<Kyral> Icon made
<Kyral> how important is a watchfile for a package?
<ogra> Kyral, you should always use it if you can ... (for new packages)
<Kyral> gah
<lucas> if I would like a package to be removed from the archive
<ogra> its trivial to add he upstream url ...
<lucas> who should I assign the bug to ?
<Kyral> and do I really have to make all those translations in the Desktop file?
<ogra> nope
<Kyral> Thank GOD
<Kyral> lol
<ogra> but submit your package to rosetta :)
<sistpoty> lucas: elmo handles that... what do you want removed?
<Kyral> I was gonna run it through Babelfish
<Kyral> lol
<minghua> the translations in the .desktop file are supposed to come from .po's
<Kyral> okay
<ogra> minghua, not really
<lucas> I was just curious
<Kyral> so just put the one in my native language (english)
<lucas> it was about libao-ruby, but I'm still not sure about it
<sistpoty> lucas: is it removed in debian?
<minghua> ogra: yeah I know what you mean, but there are tools that extract translations from .po's to make a .desktop, and people should use that instead of making translators translate the .desktop separately.  am I correct?
<Kyral> and I pop this thing in the debian dir if its not native to the source right?
<lucas> sistpoty: it never got in
<sistpoty> lucas: ah
<lucas> the guy looked for a sponsor but didn't try very hard
<ogra> minghua, yes ... i was wrong ... i was referring to language packs
<ogra> .desktop files are not contained in langpacks
<ogra> but translations can/should be in the .po file
<ogra> so they show up on rosetta
<cyberix> slomo: I saw GNUnet 0.7.x is in dapper. Thanks, for that. gnunet-gtk 0.7.x going to get there anytime soon?
<slomo> cyberix: i have to talk with elmo about it... he told me that it's broken somehow but it works for me... so no idea
<minghua> ogra: I see.  I never really understood this language-pack thing though
<Kyral> What is a valid Category for a Desktop file?
<minghua> last time I tried language-pack-zh-cn, it didn't work (although it turned out to be my fault, not ubuntu's)
<cyberix> slomo: Well, maybe it is fixed in 0.7.0a
* Kyral sighs
<cyberix> slomo: Which now seems to have packages in debian too.
<minghua> Kyral: read http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/0.9/ if you are serious with your .desktop file (e.g. plan to send it upstream)
<ogra> minghua, i had this page from breezy in mind ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline
<cyberix> slomo: It was the first 0.7.x bugfix release, fixing aprox. 30 bugs.
<minghua> ogra: thanks for the link
<minghua> is there a way in wiki.ubuntu.com to say "I'm interested in the page, make a bookmark for me, but don't send emails on every page update"?
<slomo> cyberix: i'll talk to him tomorrow... need to go to bed now ;)
<slomo> gn8 everybody
<sistpoty> gn8 slomo
* rave_ needs to sleep as well
<cyberix> slomo: Good night
<sistpoty> damn, I broke my pbuilder during upgrade :(
<rave_> :|
<\sh> yay
<\sh> I just send an announcement about "Ubuntus MOTU School"
<LaserJock> \sh: to where?
<\sh> ubuntu-motu ML and ubuntu-devel ML
<LaserJock> very cool
<LaserJock> hmm, dapper is acting up on me, bbl
<\sh> done for today...
<sistpoty> hm... if there is a shlibs.local, i guess i need to update this as well for a2c-transition?
<\sh> c2a ...yes
<\sh> everything where the packagename appears..so even in rules where the install path is debian/<packagename>/ is
<sistpoty> because the ones i come across seem kind of outdated (never made the libstdc++ transition), that confuses me a lilttle bit *g*
<\sh> and don't forget the conflicts/replaces
<\sh> and be careful with merges which have to be transitioned
<\sh> and check the list of doko again and again, for the DEBIAN tag...the sometimes a sync is appropriate
<sistpoty> \sh: sure... i always check on unstable first ;)
<sistpoty> (and in bts)
<\sh> sistpoty: well...you can read just now on d-d that the debian maintainer did not read the instructions very carefully :)
<\sh> (for atlas-cpp, cal3d and another lib)
* sistpoty glimpses at d-d
<\sh> it will be another topic for ubuntus motu school :)
<sistpoty> great idea btw. ;)
<\sh> hehe...the zulu word for learn for motu: fundela motu
<sistpoty> wohoo my pbuilder regenerated magically :)
<Seveas> http://www.tecspy.com/blogs/loveslugradio/2005/11/30
<Seveas> SOOO FUNNYY!
<\sh> ROTFL
<\sh> shit...this is wonderful
<\sh> post it on =devel
<Seveas> i posted it on sounder already :)
<\sh> ah well...one of the ML which I don't read :)
<ogra> \sh, sounder is very funny ...
<ogra> (i'm not subscribed but read the archives once a mont)h
<Kyral> slomo: ping
<Kyral> ajmitch: ping
<ajmitch_> yes?
<Kyral> I finished the package :D All the errors you commented on should be fixed now
<Kyral> 'cept Linda spits out a wierd error
<ajmitch_> k
* ajmitch_ is trying to fix php-imap issues here
<Kyral> says it cannot find a sutable .mo file
<ajmitch_> blame StevenK
<ajmitch_> ;)
<Kyral> eh?
<Kyral> so its harmless?
<Nafallo> that's one reason not to have linda as a pbuilder hook :-P
<ajmitch> I think it's harmless, I don't know though
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> then EasyChem has a clean bill of health
* ajmitch gets the hate out on php-imap
<raphink> hi :)
<raphink> anyone to review some package of mine ? :)
<Kyral> raphink: get in line
<Kyral> I worked for more than 6 hours today fixing one of mine :P
<raphink> Kyral: haha
<raphink> well I have sopme package that have been waiting for quite a time ;)
<raphink> I worked for about the same time making one ;)
<raphink> from scratch
<raphink> had loads of fun :)
<Kyral> actually I did
<Kyral> because I learned a shitload :P
<ajmitch> packages will be reviewed when (or if) motus have time & inclination to do so :)
<Kyral> yah yah :P
<raphink> nah
<raphink> get involved, they say ...
<raphink> ;)
<Kyral> 'cept I gave you what? More than 8 hours warning that I would ping you tonight mitch :P
<ajmitch> and?
<Kyral> bah ;P
<ajmitch> warning doesn't mean that I'll have time
* ajmitch is at work
<Kyral> ah nevermind
<Kyral> LJ
<ajmitch> there are plenty of other packages on REVU that I can look at as well ;)
<LaserJock> Hi Kyral
<LaserJock> man, I tried fresh installs of Breezy and Dapper today. Lots of problems. Didn't get much work done ;-)
<Nafallo> will we have dbus 1.0 in 6.04?
<ogra> Nafallo, when is ETA ?
<Nafallo> end of December according to planet gnome :-)
<Nafallo> dbus 0.60 was just released
<ajmitch> \sh_away: great mail to -motu :)
<Nafallo> mail to -motu? what is this?
<LaserJock> \sh_away: yes, it was good
<ogra> Nafallo, i think that is to tight to UVF, a new dbus will pull a new transition in
<ogra> Nafallo, see /topic ;)
<Nafallo> yes, but dbus 1.0 would be much easier to provide support for in 3 years, since it's the first "stable" :-)
* Nafallo subs
<ajmitch> 0.60 is API/ABI stable?
<Nafallo> nope, but most of the changes to get there are made in 0.60 according to the blogpost :-).
* ajmitch thought 0.60 was going to be the last gasp before 1.0 - changes would only be made if really necessary
<ajmitch> " If there are problems with the system we are still open to changes but if all goes well this will be the 1.0 API."
<ajmitch> ah good :)
<Nafallo> ah, right
<Nafallo> so that means we need it so we can see the problems :-P
<ajmitch> yes
<Nafallo> oh. daniels is still on leave, no?
<ogra> i think i saw him joining shortly today
<ajmitch> I can't recall if he's back this week or next
<Nafallo> IIRC he's back next week.
<ogra> grumble ....
<ogra> now i have a beautiful kino package that builds and runs fine but segfaults on file open and file save ...
<ajmitch_> ah right, I *used* to have a 16-bit display, no wonder I don't see the visual problems now
<ogra> many lappies have them
<ogra> but Diablo-D3's reaction was sooo typical ... grmpf ..
<ajmitch> ogra: typical for him, yes
<ogra> yup
* ajmitch has just about given up on -laptop
<tseng> just?
<tseng> i gave up when Diablo3 was the first guy to join
<ajmitch> well he's about the only activity in there now
<ajmitch> he's not as bad as some people on the forums I see..
<Kyral> ..?
<ajmitch> just reading some angry people on the 'why does dapper suck?' thread
<Kyral> yah there is a reason why I didn't post there
<Kyral> because I would flame them to hell and back
<bmonty> hey everyone
<ajmitch> hey bmonty!
<sistpoty> hey bmonty... congrats!
<ajmitch> well done ;)
<bmonty> sistpoty: on?
<sistpoty> motu-ship ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach didn't get hold of you? :)
<bmonty> ok thanks, but that is news to me :)
<sistpoty> motu-ness?... whatever welcome to the team
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+members
<ajmitch> you were approved in absentia
* Nafallo goes to bed
<ajmitch> dholbach was tasked with hunting you down & congratulating you
<ajmitch> we managed to do it first :)
<bmonty> haha...well this is a welcome surprise!
<ajmitch> now send your key to elmo
<bmonty> ok
* Kyral has to remember to add his name to the Membership Candidates list
<ajmitch> Kyral: a good idea if you're going before the CC
<ajmitch> Kyral: I won't be there, btw
<Kyral> I also have to rustle up UbuntuForums people
<Kyral> this is why I'm pushing for EasyChem
<sistpoty> time to regenerate... good night everyone
<minghua> so sistpoty is really Borg? :-P
<ajmitch> didn't you know?
<ajmitch> he's part of the german MOTU collective
<bmonty> I'm glad there is an ubuntu-motu ML now, I think it was long overdue
<raphink> can I upload packages I didn't do for sync on REVU?
<raphink> I mean Debian packages
<raphink> :s
<ajmitch> raphink: hm?
<raphink> hmm
<ajmitch> bmonty: it was, we kept bugging jdub about it
<raphink> what's the protocol to get Debian packages synchronized with Ubuntu?
<ajmitch> get a motu to ask elmo
<ajmitch> once the package has been checked
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> well because I think grubconf would be a good tool to get
<raphink> it's packaged for Debian unstable
<raphink> and it builds fine in dapper
<ajmitch_> and it's not in dapper?
<raphink> no
<Kyral> hmm
<ajmitch_> when was it added to unstable?
<Kyral> ogra would be happy to know that Madwifi DOES work with the new kernel
<Kyral> but...
<Kyral> wierd mouse error
<raphink> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=grubconf&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
<ajmitch_> grubconf is old in sid.. has 2 RC bugs
<raphink> it was in warty
<raphink> but not anymore in hoary or breezy or dapper
<ajmitch_> and it was removed for a good reason, I recall now
<ajmitch_> eg it would make your system unbootable fairly quickly :)
<raphink> ah!
<Kyral> X cannot open /dev/mouse or somesuch
<raphink> is there any equivalent to it?
<ajmitch_> not that I know of
<raphink> or something planned, like in portage or so?
<raphink> because grubconf is pretty useful when it comes to managing splashimages
<ajmitch_> anything that ignores the debian-specific comments will trash grub
<ajmitch_> so the tool needs to be written specifically for debian & ubuntu
<raphink> ic
<raphink> so I wonder what you would think of my postinst tool ;)
* ajmitch would not recommend to elmo that grubconf be imported
* ajmitch has no idea what tool you speak of
<raphink> I mean hehe
<raphink> I made a package for kubuntu grub splashimages
<raphink> so I had to write a postinst script to install a splashimage by default
<raphink> the package is on REVU now
<raphink> obviously it modifies menu.lst, that's why I wonder what you would think of it ;)
<ajmitch> and how badly does it destroy /boot/grub/menu.lst ?
<raphink> it adds two lines in the begining of it : a comment line and a splashimage=etc.. line
<raphink> then the prerm removes both
<raphink> specifically
<ajmitch> does it rewrite anything else in the file?
<raphink> no
<raphink> if the splashimage line already exists
<raphink> it replaces it
<raphink> so that it's not duplicate
<ajmitch> hm
* ajmitch would have to study it to make sure it wouldn't kill things
<raphink> that's all it does
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> :)
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/kubuntu-grub-splashimages-0511301515/kubuntu-grub-splashimages-1.0/debian/kubuntu-grub-splashimages.postinst
<ajmitch> because you wouldn't find out until the next kernel update or so ;)
<ajmitch> yes, I was looking at it
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<raphink> initially I was putting the splashimage line in the end of the file
<raphink> but that doesn't work
<raphink> it needs to be before the list of OSes
<StevenK> ajmitch: Ping!
<ajmitch_> StevenK: hello sir!
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Hey! You said you had some "issues" about m-a?
<ajmitch_> yes, I did
<ajmitch_> I understand you were probably just merging, did you check all the changes there?
* StevenK is being naugthy and irc'ing from work.
<StevenK> ajmitch_: I believe so.
<StevenK> I always read the debdiff before adding it to the bug.
<StevenK> I may have missed something ...
<StevenK> s/may have/probably/ depending on the time. :-P
<ajmitch> yeah, I need to check the debdiff against the latest debian version to tell what is good, I think
<StevenK> I can generate one, if you like.
* ajmitch is slowly fetching m-a source now
<raphink> good night
<ajmitch> looks like my ISP is having connectivity issues anyway
<ajmitch> some of my issues are probably debian changes anyway
<StevenK> ajmitch: Can you reach 220.233.5.14?
<ajmitch> just from a very very quick glance at the debdiff
<ajmitch> I can
<StevenK> ajmitch: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/module-assistant_0.10.2-d.debdiff
<ajmitch> much easier to read
<ajmitch> ok, now that is looking much better
<ajmitch> sorry, my issues are more with the debian changes
<ajmitch> like stripping the GPL 3 paragraphs from debian/copyright
<StevenK> Then kill Zomb. :-)
<Kyral> just a note...
<ajmitch> unnecessary, imho
<ajmitch> gladly ;)
<Kyral> enabling Framebuffer kills Nvidia-GLX dead
<ajmitch> Kyral: great!
<ajmitch> so don't do it ;)
<StevenK> ajmitch: I can just not merge that bit? :-P
<ajmitch> StevenK: sure, but you'd have an extra delta from debian then
<ajmitch> or you could file a bug in the BTS :)
<StevenK> Or you could. :-P
<ajmitch> I'd also check that the changes for linux-* naming aren't unnecessary now
<ajmitch> since they should be in 0.9.8
<ajmitch> that's the major change that ubuntu was carrying anyway, hopefully it can be dropped & the package synced
<ajmitch> seems to be some doc fixes for that anyway
<LaserJock> Kyral: what's going on there dude?
<Kyral> huh?
<ajmitch> end of the world
<LaserJock> coming and going
<Kyral> I had to forcefully disable the Framebuffer
<StevenK> ajmitch: I can just try building 0.11.2?
<LaserJock> Kyral: so are you in dapper right now?
<Kyral> yah
<ajmitch> StevenK: you could, but I think using module-assistant will be a better test
<LaserJock> Kyral: Take a look at System->Help
<ajmitch> since building it doesn't stress it too much
<hub> I have been told that dapper's kernel is broken
<hub> weird
<ajmitch> it was
<ajmitch> keybuk should have got udev fixes in
<hub> ajmitch: was a few hours ago
<ajmitch> so I think it's unbroken by now
<crimsun> hub: that's not really the kernel, that was udev and module-init-tools
<ajmitch> keybuk said he'd fixed things a bit over an hour ago
<Kyral> what abour it?
<Kyral> I get the XFCE manual :P
<LaserJock> Kyral: The packaging guide should be there
<hub> crimsun: it is all related, but ok
<Kyral> I don't have the GNOME help
<LaserJock> Kyral: oh, ok
<ajmitch> fun, another debian GR
* ajmitch must have missed it the first time round
<Kyral> is udev supposed to be faster than hotplug?
<ajmitch> probably, I think hotplug is getting dropped
<LaserJock> yeah, I upgraded this afternoon and hotplug got removed.
<crimsun> hotplug is the Old World Order
<Kyral> seems slower
<Kyral> hey crimsun do you know how to force XFCE's compmgr to start?
<crimsun> Kyral: sorry, I'm not in front of it, ask in #xfce
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I think I'll jump to Flux now :D
<Kyral> brb
<Kyral> Okay I'm just trying to put off homework now...
<ajmitch> sigh, broken syncs
<ajmitch> caused by broken ubuntu changes
<LaserJock> ajmitch: like what?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: libpqxx
<ajmitch> unnecessary rename in breezy
<ajmitch> so I have to add Conflicts/Replaces to the dapper package
<ajmitch> which debian does not need
<ajmitch> since debian did the c2 change without adding the c2 suffix
<ajmitch> (rightly so)
<minghua> ajmitch: c++ library but only exports C interface?
<ajmitch_> SONAME change
<xhaker> ajmitch, yeh.. i always thought renaming the packages is a bit silly
<ajmitch_> so there was no earlier package to conflict with
<ajmitch_> xhaker: it's not silly at all
<ajmitch_> it's required to make sure you don't have randomly crashing apps
<xhaker> of course
<xhaker> but there are other ways of tacking
<xhaker> tracking
<xhaker> the version i.e:
<xhaker> could be the +c2 version
<xhaker> and not change the package name
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> because existing packages need to 'break'
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I don't quite understand why the c2 version was added to Breezy
<minghua> xhaker: that won't work
<ajmitch> LaserJock: because the C++ ABI changed
<xhaker> then a package that depends on the new ABI should depend on the +c2 version
<xhaker> whats wrong with that?
<minghua> xhaker: most library dependencies in debian are of (>= $version) form
<ajmitch> xhaker: because you need to be able to upgrade the library & make sure that packages that use it are upgraded
<LaserJock> so why was there no c2 in sid, because they didn't have an ABI change?
<ajmitch> there's not a strict version dependency
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes they did
<ajmitch> in *this case*, the SONAME changed anyway
<ajmitch> so they didn't need to append c2 to force an upgrade
<xhaker> so how did they handled that? they seem to be fine without he package rename
<ajmitch> xhaker: the package is renamed
<xhaker> in debian?
<ajmitch> but renamed with a new version, rather than the existing version & c2
<ajmitch> for the case I'm talking about, yes
<ajmitch> debian is doing things just the same way we are
<ajmitch> doko is gcc overlord for both
<xhaker> anyone running dapper 2.6.15 kernel with todays updates?
<LaserJock> stupid question, but what does SONAME mean?
<LaserJock> xhaker: I was but it was a bit broken ;-)
<minghua> ajmitch: I wonder in this case if you/we can ask the debian maintainer to add a Confilicts/Replaces to -c2 packages in the Debian version
<Kyral> I think its what libs are names
<Kyral> .so?
<ajmitch> minghua: I think I will
<Amaranth> LaserJock: libfoo.so.6
<ajmitch> LaserJock: shared object name
<Amaranth> LaserJock: SONAME change means you start using libfoo.so.7
<Amaranth> iirc
<ajmitch> yep
<Amaranth> and the package name would change from libfoo6 to libfoo7
<Amaranth> so you wouldn't need a c2
<LaserJock> ahhh, now I see. So the c2 is only added as needed?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes
<ajmitch> and we have to do c2a for some packages now
<ajmitch> due to another libstdc++ change
<Amaranth> yeah, i forgot why though
<ajmitch> memory allocator, a rebuild will cause missing symbols
<ajmitch> so apps need to be rebuilt, libs renamed
<minghua> LaserJock: yes, adding c2 means two packages with the same libfoo.so.n, but different interface
<StevenK> ajmitch: How do you suggest we test m-a?
<ajmitch> by using it to build some modules
* ajmitch can't recall what might be useful
<LaserJock> gpib is one I know of
<ajmitch> since I don't have anything not in the default kernel
<ogra> i doubt it will be compliant with the new architecture at all...
<ajmitch> ogra: which is why I'm wary of uploading it as it stands
<ogra> yup
<ajmitch> great, new kernel & glibc at once
<ajmitch> remind me not to reboot yet :)
* Lathiat2 grins at ajmitch 
<Kyral> ajmitch: the kernel is stable
<ajmitch> I'm sure it is
<ajmitch> but I like having nvidia drivers
<Kyral> It is there :P
<ajmitch> new kernel ABI
<ajmitch> so drivers will have to be rebuilt
<Kyral> you just have to sudo modprobe -r nvidiafb && sudo modprobe nvidia
<ajmitch> yeah, I'll pass
<ajmitch> I'm lazy
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> I like a working system
<ajmitch> which is why I run dapper
<Kyral> lol
<LaserJock> sorry for more stupid questions, what is ABI?
<Kyral> Something Something Interface
<jamessan> Application Binary, iirc
<LaserJock> jamessan: thanks
<Kyral> Application Binary Interface
<StevenK> ajmitch: I have just built/tested 0.10.2 and it works.
<StevenK> I can't build a module, but that's just due to gcc-3.4 not being installed.
<StevenK> ajmitch: So, request a sync.
<bmonty> good night everyone
<Kyral> g'night
<Trashcan> lol
<Kyral> ??
<crimsun> 'night, ogra
<ogra> night
<zakame> afternoon :)
<crimsun> 'afternoon, zakame
<Kyral> Night all
<bojan> morning!
<zakame> hi bojan , crimsun :)
<sivang> morning !
<crimsun> 'night, chris
<crimsun> 'morning bojan, sivang
<sivang> hey crimsun :)
<sivang> hmm Fuddl seems to be coming for an IPv6 address
<zakame> hello sivan
<sivang> hey zakame , how is it going on the packaging arena?
<zakame> sivang: here, just received my accepted syncs, now marking them as fixed... my email has been very slow lately :(
<zakame> seems that lp hasn't updated the email forwarer yet, mail still goes to chi
<crimsun> hmm, you might need to ping elmo on that
<crimsun> not sure, though
<zakame> I've posted this on #launchpad earlier, but nobody seems to be available atm :(
<crimsun> not for a few more hours at least
<crimsun> it's still quite early in the morning GMT
<zakame> hehe yeah, quite early indeed
<zakame> anyway I'll just wait, i still do receive the notices from spunge, but its awfully late :(
<dholbach> good morning
<zakame> morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey zakame, fresh motu! :)
<bojan> hi
<dholbach> hey bojan :)
<bojan> hi dholback
<dholbach> bojan: how is it going?
<bojan> dholbach: i am reading, reading and reading
<dholbach> i hope you start trying stuff out soon :)
<dholbach> the c++ allocator change should be something easy to start with
<dholbach> bojan: maybe zakame knows a good example, where you could start?
<bojan> dholbach, yes i am looking at the packages locally
<dholbach> did you set up a pbuilder already?
<bojan> dholbach: that's what i do at the moment
<dholbach> cool
<zakame> bojan: cool! keep up the good work! :)
<bojan> zakame: i'll give my best :)
<zakame> I think we have less than 200 packages to merge/sync now, so take a look, there's something for everybody :)
<dholbach> wow, well done!
<bojan> zakame: ok
<zakame> ok, bbl, my folks need me to call them ;)
<fabbione> morning guys
<sivang> wow, already less then 200 pkgs?
<fabbione> any motu alive?
<sivang> morning fabbione
* sivang is partially alive but not a motu
<sivang> dholbach: if the c++ allocator is easy to start with, I'm interested - what do I need to do?
<dholbach> hey fabbione
<fabbione> guys
<fabbione> libsnmp5-dev -> libsnmp9-dev transition
<dholbach> fabbione: you want to talk about splitting out libraries in the motu school? :)
<dholbach> fabbione: will create a list for it
<fabbione>   php4-snmp
<fabbione>   netmrg
<fabbione>   mbrowse
<fabbione>   libfwbuilder6c2
<fabbione>   ksim
<fabbione>   ifstat
<fabbione>   fwbuilder-linux
<fabbione>   fwbuilder-bsd
<dholbach> oh you have it already :)
<fabbione>   fwbuilder
<fabbione>   cpqarrayd
<fabbione>   cacti-cactid
<fabbione> these are the pkgs in universe that need a rebuild
<dholbach> rocknroll
* dholbach hugs fabbione 
<fabbione> dholbach: that's just the output from apt-cache rdepends libsnmp5
<dholbach> *nod*
<fabbione> so it might be ok, it might be not
<fabbione> main has been done already (module php5)
<dholbach> will create a wiki page
<fabbione> ah comeon
<fabbione> it's like 10 pkgs
<fabbione> you can do it in 10 minutes
<fabbione> ok well
<fabbione> dholbach: ehehe i might as well talk about it
<dholbach> yeah, you enjoyed that :)
<fabbione> yeah i enjoy larting^Wexplaning people
<dholbach> that's what i thought back then
<sivang> so, when are we gonna have a lesson?
<fabbione> i could give a "talk" on the importance of not being lame in #ubuntu* channels :P
<fabbione> or "how to use a gpg key properly"
<sivang> fabbione: well, you just need to do what you did to me for anoyone who presents the same cluelessness as I have :-D
<dholbach> ok, everybody who's new here, proceed to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseSNMPTransition
<fabbione> actually
<sivang> dholbach: that's about the relocator change?
<fabbione> dholbach: that's the list of binary pkgs
<fabbione> some of them have sources in main
<sivang> fabbione: really, you scared the living shit out of me.
<dholbach> gnar
<fabbione> dholbach: go for the page :)
<sivang> fabbione: main? cool, me like main :)
<Mithrandir> dholbach: seriously, that's like five or eight source package.  Just fix them. :-P
<dholbach> sorry guys
<dholbach> i just had a look at the source packages and they were all done (one left)
<dholbach> i'll ping you for something easy next time
<ajmitch> hi all
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> how are you this morning, daniel?
<dholbach> thanks, i'm fine
<ajmitch> good :)
<dholbach> quite happy with everybody signing up for ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> lots of new faces in #ubuntu-motu-school
<ajmitch> we need to add something in the topic to point them here
<ajmitch> I guess we wait for \sh_away :)
<dholbach> packages without debhelper and cdbs?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I got stuck with that ;)
<dholbach> you want to give them pain?
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> no idea why I suggested it, I wasn't intending to give the tutorial
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> brb
<lucas> I could give a tutorial about "ruby for python programmers", but I'm not so sure of the "IRC channel" format
<crimsun> 'evening, ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi crimsun, how are you?
<crimsun> ajmitch: not too bad, working on a diff for hoary's and breezy's fuse
<crimsun> ajmitch: yourself?
<ajmitch> I'm alright, just reading through some wiki stuff
<ajmitch> seems that my ISP is having a few issues today
<jsgotangco> hi guys
<ajmitch> hey jerome
<jsgotangco> hey ajmitch how's it going?
<ajmitch> good :)
<ajmitch> how are you?
<dholbach> hey jsgotangco
<dholbach> when is your big day?
<jsgotangco> tommorow
<jsgotangco> i'm flying tonight at 11pm
* dholbach hugs jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> arrive at seoul around 5am
<jsgotangco> and talk at 10am
<jsgotangco> hehehe
* dholbach has fingers crossed
<dholbach> . o O { and types very slowly because of this }
<raphink> :)
<jsgotangco> its strange korea requires all countries to have a visa
<jsgotangco> i could go into japan without a visa
<jsgotangco> heh
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: have a fun trip :)
<jsgotangco> oh definitely
<sivang> jsgotangco: what are you going to be doing in korea?
<zakame> jsgotangco: rock the conf :)
<jsgotangco> yeah i'll try not to be too crazy
<siretart> morning
<crimsun> 'morning, siretart
<siretart> crimsun: how was your presentation yesterday?
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<zakame> hello siretart :)
<crimsun> siretart: long, but at least I got free lunch :)
<siretart> crimsun: :)
<siretart> huhu ajmitch, hi zakame
<siretart> zakame: you wait for elmo to get your key added, right?
<zakame> siretart: yup, still waiting :)  but my email's crappy lately :'(
<jsgotangco> bye bye
<slomo_> hi everybody :)
<ajmitch> hey slomo_
<ajmitch> morning \sh
<\sh> moins
<zakame> hi \sh :)
<slomo_> hi \sh
<crimsun> 'morning, slomo_, \sh
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> dholbach: review 'day' is next weekend, shall we have a MOTU meeting around then as well?
<ajmitch> & we're scheduling motu school sessions ;)
<dholbach> we should take this discussion to the mailing list
<ajmitch> ok
<lucas> what is the best way to request a merge ? is assigning a bug to the MUTO Merge Team enough, or should I ask elmo too ?
<lucas> (see launchpad bug #5253 as an example)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5253: ruby (Ubuntu) - libgettext-ruby: merge new debian version In: libgettext-ruby (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5253
<dholbach> a merge has to be done manually
<dholbach> syncs are just requested in #ubuntu-devel, elmo does them
<lucas> only syncing is needed
<lucas> ok
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> if he doesn't answer or do it for a day, write a mail
<dholbach> to james.troup@
<lucas> but if there's no emergency, will elmo eventually sync libgettext-ruby with only bug report #5253 ?
<ajmitch> no
<lucas> ok
<ajmitch> elmo won't watch malone for thousands of merge bugs
<ajmitch> and he will want the request to come from a MOTU
<lucas> ok, so could sbody request the syncs of libgettext-ruby and libgtk-trayicon-ruby ?
<lucas> (malone bug #5253 and malone bug #5255)
* ajmitch would if he could fetch packages to test them
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5253: ruby (Ubuntu) - libgettext-ruby: merge new debian version In: libgettext-ruby (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5253
<ajmitch> but my ISP is having severe issues tonight
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5255: trayicon-ruby (Ubuntu) - libgtk-trayicon-ruby: merge new debian version In: libgtk-trayicon-ruby (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5255
<ajmitch> at least irc works..
<ajmitch> but http is nearly dead for anything out of NZ
<lucas> what's the point in asking MOTURuby to work on merge if you have to double-check everything ?
<ajmitch> because we can't just blindly ask for syncs based on someone's word?
<ajmitch> syncs have broken before, I had to prepare a fix for one today
<lucas> ok, so what's the difference with MOTURuby just doing nothing ? :-)
<ajmitch> people are given upload rights for a reason - they are trusted to get things right
<ajmitch> I would hope that people in MOTURuby would know ruby packaging better, and so come to a decision
<ajmitch> it doesn't mean that we can't check them before putting our names to a sync
<lucas> ?
<lucas> what's the problem with ruby packaging ?
<ajmitch> eg when I request a sync, and it breaks.. the blame falls on me
<ajmitch> I didn't say there was a problem
<ajmitch> I said that the ruby team should know ruby packaging
<lucas> I do
<ajmitch> like the mono team handles the mono packages
<ajmitch> except now the mono team is comprised of all main uploaders :( (congrats slomo_ )
<ajmitch> ;)
<lucas> I'm part of the debian pkg-ruby-extras team, and have 2 ruby-related packages sponsored in debian (soon 3)
<ajmitch> that's great
<ajmitch> but I will still do a quick check of any sync for a non-MOTU who requests it :)
<lucas> there seem to be a bottleneck here. motutools is waiting on REVU for a week now, with no useful comments. launchpad bug #5035 makes it impossible to use libgettext-ruby on breezy/amd64, and has a patch waiting. should I ask for Ubuntu membership to help things get going ? :-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5035: ruby (Ubuntu) - shared library installed to incorrect directory on amd64 In: libgettext-ruby (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5035
<ajmitch> there's always a bottleneck when there's a small group of people
<zakame> hehe, libmemcache has been there for more than two, but I'm not going to complain because I'm too busy having fun learning ;)
<ajmitch> lucas: I'm sure you can see that there's more than just motutools waiting for review
<ajmitch> but that's because reviewing is fairly time-intensive
<lucas> I know
<slomo_> bbl
<zakame> speaking of motutools, is does lp have an xml interface now, or is it still email?
<lucas> but this is frustrating to spend time working on stuff and don't see it going on because of bottlenecks I can do nothing to solve
<ajmitch> email still, I think
<ajmitch> lucas: and you work in debian? ;)
<lucas> the pkg-ruby-extras team is doing great
<lucas> I don't care much about the whole picture
<ajmitch> I know that
<siretart> lucas: we know these problems. I can assure you, the time I started working on universe, the situation wasn't better
<siretart> lucas: to solve these, we have been writing tools like the Merge lookup page and revu.
<lucas> so I should just request ubuntu membership ASAP to be able to help more efficiently ? :)
<ajmitch> lucas: you need to be a MOTU to do uploads :)
<ajmitch> if you became a MOTU, would you be willing to do reviews, sponsor uploads, etc?
<lucas> but to be a MOTU, you need to be an ubuntu member, right ?
<ajmitch> yes, once you have a 'sustained & significant contribution', judged by the community council
<siretart> lucas: yes. but I'm sure, there will be more than just me to advocate your ubuntu membership the next CC meeting
<lucas> ajmitch: to some extend, yes. I cannot work on Ubuntu 24/7, but I can still dedicate quite a lot of time to it
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu Bugzilla bug #24: sysklogd: FTBFS on s390 - missing atomic_t / __KERNEL__ Product: Ubuntu, Component: sysklogd, Severity: normal, Assigned to: debzilla@ubuntu.com, Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: NOTWARTY https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> silly Ubugtu
<zakame> err
<siretart> lol
<ajmitch> obviously none of us apart from \sh work on it 24/7
<ajmitch> I hardly do anything at all
<siretart> haha
<lucas> I'll be attending a conference during the next CC meeting. do one have to come to the meeting ?
<ajmitch> good to see that I can still upload
<ajmitch> since http is utterly broken for downloading
<ajmitch> lucas: generally yes..
<ajmitch> they can make exceptions sometimes
<ajmitch> or you could wait until the next CC meeting
<lucas> I'll think about it
<ajmitch> they won't approve in absentia without some prior arrangement
<lucas> who should I arrange with ? ;)
<ajmitch> a CC member :)
<lucas> ok
<ajmitch> lookup the wiki/launchpad/website for who's in the team
<lucas> doing that now
<sistpoty> hi folks
<crimsun> 'morning, sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi crimsun
<ajmitch_1> night all
<sistpoty> night ajmitch_1:
<ajmitch_1> too many ajmitch*
<sistpoty> he
<ajmitch__> :)
* ajmitch__ could become andrewm again
<sistpoty> *g*
<ajmitch__> ok, sleep time really ;)
<sistpoty> sleep well
<crimsun> 'night, ajmitch__
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<siretart> sistpoty: I'm currently in class, will come after this excercise to the cafeteria (ca. 1400)
* sistpoty is preparing his first -security upload
<siretart> cool :)
<sistpoty> siretart: ok, will see you then
<siretart> makes fun, no?
<sistpoty> siretart: no ;)... maybe you could review it before I'll upload it, let's see at 1400h
<siretart> sistpoty: security uploads should always go with debdiff to security-review@lists.ubuntu.com first. pitty approves them then
<siretart> pitti, that is
<sistpoty> siretart: ah, ok
<siretart> where are you atm?
<sistpoty> siretart: at home
<siretart> ok
<sistpoty> cya later
* lucas finally back from university. 
<zakame> evening all :)
<dholbach> could somebody have a look at MOTUReportDraft please?
<dholbach> else i'll write it on my own later :(
<zakame> checking it out :)
<\sh> dholbach: I'll write it later this evening...
<\sh> if the points are ok on the draft...I'll take care
<dholbach> i think there is more that happened
<dholbach> we had quite an exciting month
<Kyral> Mornign
<dholbach> i enjoy writing it, but it's a bit painful to have 94 people in here and I have to find out what happened (and i always forget stuff) :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | Grab your merge here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new | sign up for ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com now! | Please add what happened to w.u.c/MOTUReportDraft until 21:00 UTC TODAY
<dholbach> YAY
<zakame> w00t
<dholbach> merci \sh
<\sh> I'll try to recall what happened to the MOTUs last month...
<dholbach> me too
<dholbach> on a dogwalk
<\sh> hf :)
<ogra> again ?`
<zakame> hm, should I get the latest centericq from sid (4.21.0-7) to respond to DSA 912-1 (which notes fix in 4.21.0-4)?
<dholbach> ogra: ?
<\sh> zakame: centericq will be synced later this day..pitti requested it
<ogra> dholbach, you jus left for one 5 min ago in the oher channel :P
<dholbach> tssss
<ogra> heh
<zakame> \sh: yep, I know... I suppose I'll forward my debdiff then to julien to fix the rebuild prob... :)
<\sh> ogra: could I ask you for a favour? Would you be so kind and prepare a lecture about the topic "How to build empty packages? Why are they needed and why are they important in some transitions."
<ogra> but not this week anymore ...
<\sh> ogra: no...for january most propaly
<ogra> thats fine
<\sh> propably even
<\sh> ogra: some docs which we can publish would be rocking as well :) after the lecture :)
<ogra> we just have to have the main merges finished this week, so i'm busy ... additionally Keybuk broke ltsp with his new iniramfs
<\sh> ( cd tmp.glade && xvfb-run glade-2 -w g2banking.glade )
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> xvfb-run is not in package xvfb anymore...and daniels will come back next week...it stops me from some important merges
<lucas> I need some advice about bug #1299
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #1299: ruby (Ubuntu) - Image.read(filename) eats characters from filename In: librmagick-ruby (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTURuby, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299
<kiko> hey there guys
<kiko> so there was some bouncemail from malone recently
<kiko> Unknown user: lucas@yoway.imag.fr (Lucas Nussbaum)
<lucas> yup, that was me
<lucas> what do you mean, unknown user ?
<lucas> the mail bounced when replying ?
<kiko> yep
<kiko> that email isn't registered
<kiko> and I just sent you email there
<kiko> and it bounced too:
<kiko>     host imag.imag.fr [2001:660:5301:1e::101] : 553 5.1.2 <lucas@yoway.imag.fr>...
<kiko> +yoway.imag.fr does not do mail
<lucas> We discussed it yesterday when we figured out the problem
<lucas> a script we use (lpbugs.py) doesn't set the envelope's From address, but only the From inside the mail
<kiko> also
<kiko> Unknown user: Andrew Mitchell <ajmitch@ajmitch.dhis.org>
<lucas> I was running the script on my laptop, which I don't usually use to send mail
<kiko> lucas, it's odd, still, to have a From: address you can't send mail to.
<kiko> I see.
<kiko> Unknown user: Zak B.Elep <zakame@ubuntu.com>
<kiko> that's another one. zakame?
<\sh> lucas: well...the envelope address is not set by the MUA ...
<\sh> lucas: only from the mta...which you have to configure properly.
<lucas> most MUAs allow to set the envelope from because you often can't configure your MTA
<\sh> lucas: and thinking about this, and my postfix on my laptop is configured correctly and even my smtp server sets correct enevelops..it just works
<\sh> lucas: well..that's why you can use a relay server with smtp auth
<zakame> kiko: yes, I de-registered my @ubuntu.com addy after what it pointed to (spunge.org) went down
<lucas> \sh: yes I know
<lucas> but the sendmail transport could set the envelope from too
<lucas> with sendmail -f I think
<\sh> lucas: yes with rewriting
<kiko> zakame, okay, just wanted to make sure you know the email is getting bounced
<lucas> \sh: no
<lucas>        -f sender
<lucas>               Set the envelope sender  address.  This  is  the  address  where
<lucas>               delivery problems are sent to. With Postfix versions before 2.1,
<lucas>               the  Errors-To:  message  header  overrides  the  error   return
<lucas>               address.
<zakame> kiko: I now would like to have zakame@ubuntu.com point to zakame@gmail.com, but that doesn't seem to be working :(
<kiko> zakame, what doesn't? gmail? or the ubuntu.com redirect?
<\sh> lucas: are you sure that orig sendmail is doing the same? or exim?
<\sh> lucas: or qmail?
<lucas> I can check with exim, but not with the original sendmail
<lucas> exim does it
<lucas> I think it's quite standard
<lucas> "quite" :)
<zakame> kiko: the redirect... I was told earlier that I should put gmail as primary, but that didn't work either :(
<kiko> zakame, can you file a launchpad bug on that?
<lucas> \sh: anyway, you should put a note swhere in the readme about this. like "Use SMTP if you have some doubts about your MTA's config"
<zakame> kiko: sure, np
<kiko> thanks
<zakame> kiko-fud: to products/launchpad/+bugs ?
<kiko> zakame, yes
<xerxas> root@spanishtown:/etc/apache2/sites-available# /etc/init.d/apache2 reload
<xerxas>  * Reloading web server config...                                                                                             Syntax error on line 1 of /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/dav_fs.load:
<xerxas> Cannot load /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_dav_fs.so into server: /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_dav_fs.so: undefined symbol: dav_hook_gather_propsets
<xerxas> do I need to report that ?
<xerxas> malone ?
<kiko> appears so
<xerxas> thanks
<xerxas> is there any webdav server  ?
<xerxas> other than apache2 ?
<Treenaks> uh
<xerxas> bug reported
<dholbach> slomo, ajmitch, tseng: you can package chronojump from http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/chronojump/04/ - another member in the mono family :)
<slomo_> oh no... siretart left 3 minutes ago :/
<slomo_> Kyral: ping?
<rave_> siretart ?
<rave_> guys, who likes my suggestion for a new MOTU logo ?
<rave_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTULogo
<azeem> rave_: it's "Ubuntu Linux", not "Ununtu Linux"
<rave_> i know
<azeem> eh, that pertains to the logos at http://www.rosiello.net/PROP/
<rave_> thats why i fixed the logo on the wiki it selfs
<slomo_> rave_: apart from that i like logo1 more ;)
<azeem> rave_: yeah, saw it too late, sorry
<rave_> im using the one on the main wiki MOTUlogo for a paper im writing about patching bugs
<azeem> rave_: the logo on the pinguin's belly looks pretty artificial, it is not bend nor shaded
<azeem> but I guess that would be hard
<rave_> yeah i tryed to bent it
<rave_> i have some new 1s 2
<rave_> let me upload them
<rave_> ok i added new fles azeem
<azeem> well, I am not a big fan of logos with animals or persons on it, anyway
<rave_> :|
<rave_> thats why you like logo1
<rave_> :)
<azeem> that was slomo
<rave_> oooh
<rave_> ok
<rave_> my bad :)
<azeem> but for some more practical criticism: I think the light grey shadow should be much nearer to the black text, sword
<azeem> (and I think the sword does not convey any special meaning for MOTU)
<azeem> you could add a fork, if you want :P
<rave_> its the hero`s
<azeem> ah
<rave_> the heros part
<dholbach> azeem: anything you want to say? fork-wise? ;)
<azeem> nah, just teasing
<dholbach> i see :)
<dholbach> can everybody who intends to become a motu soon say his real name please
<Kyral> I intend to become a MOTU....soon though?
<dholbach> soon doesnt have to be next week ;)
<Kyral> lol
<hunger> Kyral: I want to get some stuff into ubuntu... but becoming a motu?
<Kyral> Chris Peterman
<dholbach> i'll add you guys to the motu report :)
<hunger> dholbach: Tobias Hunger
<azeem> dholbach: you cheated, hunger ...
<azeem> hrm
<azeem> disregard that
<hunger> dholbach: I'll work "offline" though, so no need to add me.
<dholbach> nevermind :)
<dholbach> rave_: are you johnny mast?
<rave_> dholbach yes
<dholbach> and rave_ is your normal nick?
<rave_> yep
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> i'll add it to the motu report too
<rave_> :)
<rave_> why`s that ?
<rave_> what ?
<rave_> ow the logo ?
<dholbach> i'll save the page in some minutes
<dholbach> then you can have a look
<rave_> ok
<rave_> btw for the english guys
<rave_> the menu "terminal" is in on genome whats it called in english ?
<rave_> Programs -> ?? -> Terminal
<Kyral> slomo_: you awake?
<slomo_> sure
<Kyral> Checkout EasyChem
<Kyral> please :D
<slomo_> url please :P
<Kyral> its on REVU :P
<slomo_> <--- lazy ;)
<azeem> slomo_: you should write an automatic REVU reviewer
<Kyral> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1049
<rave_> is it "resources" ?
<slomo_> azeem: good idea... but i don't know how :(
<azeem> rave_: isn't it called Terminal as well?
<azeem> rave_: not totally sure what you mean, though
<rave_> i need the sub menu name
<rave_> in gnome
<rave_> im using the dutch language in gnome
<rave_> Programs -> ?? -> terminal window
<slomo_> Kyral: hmm, you used the patching-by-hand example by \sh... this is not the best solution (i.e. a dry-run before, checking at different levels if it applies cleanly, etc would be better)... but ok, it works if you're carefull ;)
<xhaker> rave_, Terminal
<Kyral> So?
<xhaker> it's Applications -> Acessories -> Terminal
<rave_> Bingo !
<rave_> your simply the best !
<xhaker> <insert random tina turner tune here>
<xhaker> :)
<rave_> lol
<Kyral> slomo_: is it up to spec though?
<slomo_> Kyral: up to spec? hmm, maybe add "Copyright Holder:" above the "Copyright (c) ...." line
<Kyral> ah okay...
<slomo_> Kyral: and the watchfile is missing ;)
<Kyral> I know I know lol
<slomo_> did you create the logo?
<rave_> who ?
<Kyral> yah
<rave_> i creates that one on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTULogo and those on http://www.rosiello.net/PROP
<slomo_> rave_: i meant Kyral :)
<rave_> im sorry
<Kyral> You like?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft
<Kyral> So is it worth advocating?
<rave_> jeej :)
<dholbach> could you please all proofread and tell me if i forgot something
<slomo_> Kyral: i'm waiting for it to finish building ;)
<Kyral> on your system?
<Kyral> so...if I want to force a downgrade to breezy, I apt-pin to Breezy repos and do a dselect upgrade
<\sh> dholbach: the next session of ubuntu-motu-school will be held on 2005-12-10
<Nafallo> dholbach: slomo for main? :-)
<slomo_> Kyral: change those two things and you have my vote :)
<\sh> time has to be announced
<dholbach> Nafallo: right
<dholbach> \sh: yes
<Kyral> Gah do I REALLY need a Watchfile?
<Kyral> and the whole thing about SourceForge doesn't work
<slomo_> Kyral: it works for one of my packages... but if you don't want it... ok, your decision :P but the other thing would be nice and not much work
<Kyral> I'll set an RSS feed to the page
<Kyral> it will be easier for me to remember then the uscan
<\sh> dholbach: it looks like that you can send it out to the world :)
<slomo_> Kyral: ok :) add that line to copyright and you have my vote ;)
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> other people feel free to look at it :D
<dholbach> ok, updated it
<dholbach> please proofread
<dholbach> especially native speakers
<azeem> dholbach: "Soon we could have a map with the countries the cover..." <- looks weird
<dholbach> azeem: right
<Nafallo> "Soon we could have a map with the countries the cover..."
<Nafallo> we cover? :-)
<Nafallo> oh, to late :-P
<dholbach> better?
<Nafallo> yepp :-)
* Nafallo blesses it :-)
<slomo_> dholbach: looks fine except "how much we of the 'Universe' we cover already."
<slomo_> dholbach: remove the first 'we' :)
<dholbach> arglargl yes
<dholbach> so you're all sure i didn't forget anything? anyone? :)
<dholbach> any mistakes, missing/wrong information is now YOUR fault
<dholbach> i send it out
* dholbach whistles innocently
<\sh> dholbach: grin
<ogra> if [ "`ls /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.7/perllocal.pod`" != "/usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.7/perllocal.pod" ] ; then
<ogra> *superbiggrin*
<dholbach> done
<\sh> prost
<slomo_> ogra: nice one :)
<\sh> btw...only to your information....
<ogra> slomo_, thats froma script i just got ... 2402 lines like the above
<\sh> I have a request of one ubuntu fellow, if it is ok, that she can announce the ubuntu motu school project to linuxchix...I said yes, and I asked politely if she can manage that we can get one or two of the members to have lecture for ubuntu motu school as well..
<\sh> we will see, what will happen..
<dholbach> cool
<\sh> the response to this project is WOW UNBELIEVABLE
<\sh> thx to kyral who is the one who inspired by crazy brain :)
<\sh> s/by/my/
<slomo_> \sh: but you should do a second lesson about patching... teaching how do improve the patch/unpatch targets you teached yesterday ;) (i.e. dry-run, testing at different levels, stamps for each patch/reversing only applied ones in unpatch, etc) ;)
<\sh> slomo_: yes...I'll do it after ajmitch hold his lesson :)
<\sh> slomo_: yesterday it was just "a stupid idea" to show at least the "beginning" and not the "end" (cdbs)
<rave_> im writing a paper about patching
<slomo_> \sh: perfect :) because kyral has your targets in his easychem package now... sure, they work... but one could do better ;)
<slomo_> \sh: i'm really interested in ajmitch's lessons... i've never done a package completly without debhelper
<\sh> slomo_: sure...to be honest, i'm using those rules as well in xterm, because I know what I patched ,)
<\sh> slomo_: but you are right, I will improve my lesson...and write a paper :)
<mpt> Is there an ubuntu-motu mailing list?
<\sh> yes
<rave_> yep
<mpt> I don't see it mentioned on the MOTU wiki pages anywhere
<dholbach> good call
<rave_> [8]  ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
<rave_> [9]  http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
<dholbach> who does it?
<ogra> mpt, its not even a week old :)
<rave_> it came from the report draft
<mpt> ok, ta
<rave_> mpt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft
<rave_> thats the latest status
<mpt> rave_, that doc contains nothing
<rave_> press pgDn a few times
<rave_> any one want to help in the paching paper on wiki ?
<mpt> it still contains nothing, but never mind, thanks for the previous answer
<mpt> tchau
<rave_> any one interested in reverse engeneering the netwalkman NW-HD1 file type with me ?
<rave_> this could add support for this sony mp3 walkman to universe
<\sh> slomo_: can u provide a ppc pbuilder for me?
<slomo_> \sh: not really... my only ppc is my ibook and it's always on the road :/ sorry... when i get a mac mini next year you can get one :)
<\sh> slomo_: no problem...just trying to fix ctsim :)
<slomo_> \sh: don't worry about ctsim... it's on my todo list :)
<\sh> slomo_: ok..trying to get rid of my not fixed merges :)
<slomo_> assign it to me if you want ;)
<ogra> slomo_, did you notice that you still have an open main merge ?
<slomo_> ogra: you mean gtk-sharp? yes... i have it ready but i wanted to wait for debian to add one of my patches to keep the delta as small as possible... i have time for it until UVF, correct?
<ogra> slomo_, deadline for main merges is today
<siretart> ogra: today? when is UVF?
<dholbach> ogra: can you add mako, zakame and bmonty to the motu team or will they have to join themselves?
<dholbach> ogra: for the first push of them
<dholbach> ogra: after that mom will run again
<slomo_> ogra: fine, do you want to upload it for me in some minutes? ;)
<slomo_> siretart: 19.01.
<siretart> intersting
<dholbach> the deadline was today, so we could catch up
<ogra> slomo_, see Kamions mail to devel
<ogra> dholbach, hmm, id rather ask tem to klick the join link ...
<dholbach> ogra: ok
<dholbach> then i'll do that
<ogra> ll happily approve them
<sistpoty> hi folks
<slomo_> hi sistpoty
<minghua> hi sistpoty
<minghua> sistpoty: I am starting to learn using your lpbugs.py tool :-)
<sistpoty> hehe, cool minghua... but lpbugs was written by \sh (and siretart)... I only wrote the frontend
<sistpoty> (webpage)
<minghua> sistpoty: oh I see.  I naively thought the frontend and the tool should have the same author :-(
<sistpoty> minghua: no, but still we all work together on this, and the webfrontend is based on some things siretart and /me wrote for revu2... so basically we all work together ;)
* sistpoty installs piuparts for automatic test-installing/test-upgrading pbuilded packages
<LaserJock> sistpoty: ping?
<rave> &@*!@ connection
<sistpoty> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> sistpoty: you worked on the libghemical merge right?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, and I requested a sync this morning
<rave> did any one replyed to me ?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: ok, I just wondered if you saw that there was a new upstream release
<rave> on how to create a code box on wiki ?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: actually azeem did the sync from debian side... so I didn't bother that hard
<sistpoty> s/sync/merge
<sistpoty> btw.: thx. azeem :)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: ok, I was going to look at it myself but I new a new release was coming so I waited. Too long I guess, since you beat me too it  ;-)
<sistpoty> hehe, as written above... I only test-builded and requested the sync ;)
<ajmitch> morning
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<slomo_> hi ajmitch
<rave> morning ajmitch
<xhaker> someone should upload gstreamer0.8-cdio with libcdio6
<herve> hello
<crimsun> I just keep having the worst luck today
<\sh> crimsun: that can't be
<xhaker> crimsun, why is that?
<crimsun> earlier udev troubles were fixed with a later udev update, so I finally fixed firmware loading for my M-Audio card, but right before I hibernated I updated to the latest udev version, which is now broken again, which ended up with a ext3 / fs hosed, had to e2fsck, which failed, so I had to boot to Windows to create a DSL usb device
<ajmitch> sigh, looks like I have to kill \sh
<ajmitch> he was such a nice guy, too
<\sh> *g*
<\sh> ajmitch: doesn't matter
<\sh> ajmitch: I'm dead in any way you can imagine
<ajmitch> \sh: Australia != New Zealand. Really
<\sh> ah damn
<\sh> I was wondering...something is wrong
<ajmitch> haha
<\sh> I'll fix it after I wrote my CV
<ajmitch> why are you dead?
<ajmitch> uh oh
<ajmitch> that doesn't sound promising
<StevenK> ajmitch: You saw my messages WRT m-a?
<\sh> i tell you...I'm in a good mood...really...I'm so pissed...but nothing to worry about...I just found a nice place under a bridge in cologne with wireless lan connection
<ajmitch> \sh: nice running water, too?
<ajmitch> StevenK: yeah
<\sh> ajmitch: sure the "Rhine"
<ajmitch> StevenK: 'testing' it is mainly using it to build a module
<ajmitch> \sh: clean enough to swim in, drink, etc? :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Er, the message after that. :-)
<ogra> its currently -2C in germany any snowy ... you can build an igloo :)
<\sh> ajmitch: i'm not sure, but does it matter, when you can't buy mineral water, you will drink even your pee...,)
<\sh> ogra: hahaha
<ajmitch> StevenK: what did I miss? "_
<ajmitch> \sh: so is your current job looking a little shaky?
<sistpoty> brrr... I think I test the -2C and go out for a smoke
<StevenK> [14:53]  < StevenK> ajmitch: I have just built/tested 0.10.2 and it works.
<StevenK> [14:54]  < StevenK> I can't build a module, but that's just due to gcc-3.4 not being installed.
<StevenK> [14:54]  < StevenK> ajmitch: So, request a sync.
<ajmitch> yeah, the "can't build a module" is what I was referring to
<ajmitch> wondering what test you did
<StevenK> I can install gcc-3.4 and try it again.
<\sh> ajmitch: well...it's a good idea to search now...because we actually don't know what will happen just before the 24th of dec
<ogra> ajmitch, they pay very good gratuities ...
<ajmitch> it's mainly to check that it still gets the right kernel headers
<StevenK> It had to install them, which it did.
<ajmitch> \sh: and you're still a bit young for a retirement home :)
<\sh> ajmitch: not in germany...I'll be 35 next month...so for germany i'm old
<ajmitch> not that old
<ajmitch> still young enough to find a job & work for the next 40 years
<\sh> still 30 years until the real retirement time...
<ajmitch> yep
<\sh> my plan was to work only up to 50 and then be rich like hell...but I think I have to change plans
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I don't think I have a chance of that
* ajmitch really should get to work soon 
<ajmitch> before I have to start looking for bridges
<\sh> ajmitch: is your company hiring?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> well they are
<ajmitch> if you like php
<tseng> and living in new zealand
<\sh> ajmitch: well...I wrote my first eShop in clipper...and after that I wrote everything in PHP and Perl
<ajmitch> that too
<\sh> this is not that bad
<azeem> \sh: "this" being PHP or New Zealand?
<\sh> azeem: both
<azeem> ah :)
<tseng> \sh: i dont think you experience the connectivity in the pacific rim at UDU
<tseng> +d
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: uhm, have you lost any bridges lately?  Since you need to go looking for them?
<\sh> i mean..it doesn't matter what language or what country...actually to have a job is much more interesting
<\sh> and my english is so bad, that I can even understand new zealand-ish
<\sh> ,)
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: somewhere warm to sleep
<ajmitch> \sh: we speak english here?
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: it's just more dry under bridges, not warmer.
<ajmitch> depends if you get it out of the wind
<\sh> ajmitch: dunno...I never been to NZ
* ajmitch will be back in a few minutes
<dholbach> Lathiat: you there?
<dholbach> Lathiat: #ubuntu-meeting, if you are
<Kyral> Hmm, is anyone else on Dapper having LRM Common failing to finish setting up?
<LaserJock> Kyral: yep
<Kyral> Okay so its not just me :D
<Kyral> and it seems udev is slower than HotPlug
<torkel> Kyral: add a ! to the first line in /var/lib/dpkg/info/linux-restricted-modules-common.postinst
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> so it should read
<Kyral> !set -e
<torkel> no. It should read #!/bin/sh
<Kyral> ah lol
<torkel> not #/bin/sh
<Kyral> I didn't notice the malformed Shabang
<Kyral> Wait, isn't a shabang supposed to be !#
<torkel> no
<Kyral> Okay
<LaserJock> Kyral: ! is the bang
<Kyral> Fixed it
* ajmitch is back
<ajmitch> dholbach: it'll be early morning for Lathiat
<dholbach> ok
* ajmitch didn't realise there was a devel update meeting scheduled for today
<ajmitch> oh well
* StevenK tests m-a again.
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> Is it better to set with XBindKeys, or setup though fluxbox's startup
<StevenK> root@broken:/# ls -lh /usr/src/ddrmat-2.6.15-5-k7_0.12-1+2.6.15-5.7_i386.deb
<StevenK> -rw-r--r-- 1 root src 7.3K Dec  1 20:25 /usr/src/ddrmat-2.6.15-5-k7_0.12-1+2.6.15-5.7_i386.deb
<rave_> any protocol hackers ?
<StevenK> ajmitch: That do you?
<ajmitch> yeah, looks reasonable :)
<StevenK> -k7 since -k7-smp doesn't seem to exist in dapper. :-(
<ajmitch> no, the kernels are unified now, iirc
<Tonio_> evening
<Kyral> Does K7-SMP even exist PERIOD?
<ajmitch> so 1 kernel for UP & SMP
<ajmitch> Kyral: the hardware has existed for quite awhile
<StevenK> ajmitch: The progress dialog box while building doesn't work properly - but that just a huge hack in the first place.
<Kyral> ajmitch: ah. I just never saw a K7 with SMP
<StevenK> steven@broken:~% grep model\ name /proc/cpuinfo
<StevenK> model name      : AMD Athlon(tm) Processor
<StevenK> model name      : AMD Athlon(tm) Processor
<StevenK> Now you have,
<StevenK> s/,/./
<rave_> i mean reverce engeneers
<ajmitch> athlon MP
<ajmitch> rave_: why?
<Mithrandir> I have a pile of K7 SMP boxes.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Only because you sleep with AMD peoples.
* StevenK hides.
<Mithrandir> StevenK: no, that's the reason why I have a 2x275 setup
<Kyral> MP
<Kyral> ah
<StevenK> ajmitch: elmo's around, request a sync!
<ajmitch> StevenK: requested
<StevenK> I think my wiki page has read 'Sync requested' for m-a since yesterday afternoon. ;-)
<ajmitch> yes, it did
<rave_> does any if there is a patch to the webcam issue ?
* ajmitch__ has no idea what issue you're talking about
<StevenK> Eeek, now there's two of them!
<ajmitch> ?
<StevenK> [07:37]  < ajmitch> ; [07:40]  * ajmitch__
<ajmitch> and..?
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/cv/cv.html
<StevenK> I didn't see a nick change. I'm just being silly, feel free to ignore me.
<\sh> i think this is enough
<ajmitch> \sh: looks much better than my CV
<Kyral> slomo_: ping
<\sh> ajmitch: the style doesn't matter..the content is important :)
<slomo_> Kyral: pong
<Kyral> made that addition to EasyChem, check REVU in a couple minutes
<slomo_> ok, will do :)
<ajmitch> \sh: I was talking about content ;)
<Kyral> gracias
<\sh> ajmitch: oh :)
<StevenK> Only because ajmitch's CV is full of PHP.
<ajmitch> to my eternal shame
<StevenK> I've managed to hack three PHP pages. In total. One of them was '<? phpinfo(); ?>
<StevenK> s/\'//
<Kyral> Gah...is beagle busted for anyone else?
<dsas> tsk tsk, short tags on? :p
<StevenK> dsas: Bugger off. :-P
<dsas> ;)
<LaserJock> \sh: so your birthday is coming up in a little bit
<rave_> ajmitch because my cam freezes as well
* StevenK tries to find the temporary artwork for usplash in dapper.
<ajmitch> rave_: right, but it doesn't sound like a motu issue )
<rave_> no but i wanted to see if any one knew if there was a patch
<ajmitch> asking if there's a patch for 'my webcam doesn't work' isn't too productive :)
<slomo_> *sigh* Kyral always disappears when i want to tell him something...
<ajmitch> have you filed it as a bug?
<rave_> some one else did
<\sh> LaserJock: yes
<\sh> :) http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/147-HELP-Searching-A-New-Job-!!!.html
<LaserJock> \sh: we should have a party or something. I know, a "let \sh fixes all the universe bugs" party :-)
<\sh> The best thing I can do :)
<\sh> LaserJock: there is only one problem
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't burn him out
<\sh> LaserJock: I never celebrate my birthday again ... the last time I did it was when I turned 18
<Kyral> I seem to sense a pattern with udev..
<LaserJock> \sh: well, I can understand. Mine was on Nov. 18th and I just worked in the lab and was trying to help here.
<Kyral> the first time you load something, its slow..
<Kyral> then its as if its loaded it into RAM or something
<LaserJock> ajmitch: your right. It would be a terrible thing to burn out \sh
<\sh> well..this takes time to burn me out
<dholbach> good night motus
<\sh> I worked for actually 3 years 24h a day without holidays...so I'm used to it :)
<\sh> cu dholbach
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<sistpoty> night dholbach:
<ajmitch> \sh: heh, so you already gave your cv to sabdfl? ;)
* ajmitch thinks canonical would be a good place for \sh 
<\sh> ajmitch: I send him my cv via email and I don't mind :)
<ajmitch> it's the sort of job I'd like, if I could handle the stress ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: actually it wasn't an application...
<\sh> ajmitch: only information that if they need someone..and right now they need someone which is not me :)
<ajmitch> not a formal application
<\sh> ajmitch: you read the employment offer of canonical?
<ajmitch> the QA engineer?
<\sh> yepp
* ajmitch wishes he was skilled enough for that
* ajmitch has to do all those merges he said he would..
<\sh> ajmitch: i think u r
<ajmitch> no, it requires some serious QA knowledge
<ajmitch> someone who knows how to design a decent test system
<lifeless> hmmm
<ajmitch> lifeless: I thought you'd started doing some of that?
<lifeless> I will be helping anyone doing QA
<\sh> ajmitch: hehe..."hey what is wrong about trial and error"
<ajmitch> right
<lifeless> \sh: its not repeatable
<ajmitch> \sh: you didn't talk with lifeless enough at UBZ ;)
<lifeless> \sh: which means you cannot validate the results on different machines, you cannot automate it, you cannot use the results in a meaningful way, you do not get any confidence in the code base
<\sh> ajmitch: I prepared some nice QA tools for lycos...so I know :)
<lifeless> the QA engineer is not about building test systems
<ajmitch> I wonder if there's time for me to try & do some bounties before freeze
<lifeless> I mean, if they can - great - but thats in the ideal section
<\sh> lifeless: well..sabdfl has all informations about me...and I'm not the right person for this job..so I didn't apply for it...I have reasons :)
<Kyral> ping slomo_
<lifeless> I'm not pressuring you to ;). I'm just clarifying - if we get someone that can build a system, cool. But we have a tonne of folk that can build things, a much smaller group that understand testing methodologies, etc
<slomo_> Kyral: please revert the change and only add a line saying "Copyright Holder:" above ;) the line with the name etc is already ok
* Kyral falls down
<\sh> lifeless: I know...
<ajmitch> lifeless: by building a test system, I was meaning someone that understood what is needed
<slomo_> Kyral: change it and you get my vote tomorrow :) need to sleep now
<slomo_> gn8 everybody :)
<Kyral> So replace "Copyright (c)" by "Copyright Holder"
<slomo_> siretart: expect mplayer to be finished today
<sistpoty> gn8 slomo_:
<Kyral> cya
<slomo_> Kyral: no... leave that line alone and add a additional line above it saying "Copyright Holder:"
<Kyral> done and uploaded
<slomo_> Kyral: ok, fine :)
* slomo_ disappears
<\sh> well..if I don't find anything in IT anymore..I'll clean streets with a broomstick...
<dredg> \sh: where are you based?
<\sh> dredg: germany>?
<dredg> yeah, but where? :)
<\sh> dredg: near cologne
<dredg> hm, ok
<\sh> 20mins from cologne
<dredg> have a look here: http://www.google.de/jobs/ and if there's anything you are interested in i will put your cv in for it
<dredg> and if not, there are other jobs in other countries if you are prepared to relocate
<herve> nighty night
* ajmitch is prepared to relocate ;)
<dredg> find a job you like, send me your cv and i'll send it directly to a recruiter
<dredg> i'm based in the ireland office, which is the eu hq so most of the european jobs are here
<dredg> but there are jobs in uk, de and ch too
<dredg> not to mention usa :)
<\sh> Technical Support Engineer, Enterprise
<Mithrandir> and .no
<dredg> oh yeah. forgot about .no
<Mithrandir> it's a new one, so you're forgiven. :-)
* Nafallo find some in sweden :-P
<\sh> dredg: relocation is not the problem :)
<Nafallo> ah, they are not based here.
<Nafallo> never mind me ;-)
<dredg> nsheridan@gmail.com plaintext cv preferred but other formats not a problem
<\sh> java and javascript is more the problem :) but this is easy to learn...just two more languages I have in my brain :)
<dredg> the more interesting jobs in europe would probably be in ireland, as we have more staff here
<ajmitch> dredg: and they speak english there :)
<dredg> yes. yes we do :)
<\sh> and the beer is good, too :)
<\sh> (and even the whisky)
<dredg> oh come on. you're in germany
<dredg> the beer sucks here
<ajmitch> I think it's fairly easy for NZ citizens to get a irish work visa
<\sh> dredg: I like guiness, kilkenny and even Cider
<\sh> dredg: question...are you building something in ZA?
<dredg> not that i'm aware
<\sh> dredg: k..ascii prefered or Openoffice format?
<dredg> ascii
<\sh> dredg: cool :) I'll send an application and CV tomorrow (around 13 UTC+1) to your email address :)
<\sh> dredg: thanks for the hint...
<dredg> great. just tell me which job you want to be put forward for and i'll put your cv in tomorrow
* ajmitch should check the luv jobs list
<lucas> zyga: you there ?
* lucas sometimes feels lonely in MOTURuby ;)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> you want me to learn Ruby?
<lucas> that would be a very good idea actually
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I plan to learn Python and Perl first
<lucas> arg
<lucas> what a loss of time
<lucas> (just kidding)
<lucas> python is a great language. ruby is python+fun
<Kyral> and Perl...is the Unix SysAdmin's Swiss Army Chainsaw
<lucas> the old & fat unix sysadmin with a grey bear's swiss army knife, yes
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Okay, Irssi has tab complete on almost EVERYTHING
<Kyral> I <3!
* ajmitch likes irssi 
<ajmitch> especially when used with screen
* lucas used to like irssi
<lucas> but /me finally switched to xchat
<ajmitch> I used to be on xchat
<Kyral> I have to learn about screen
<LaserJock> ajmitch: so what do you use now?
<ajmitch> as I said, irssi
<Kyral> oh I am reminded
<Kyral> Can I tell logrotate to work on things like my GAIM and IRC logs?
<lamont__> qsynth, scilab, and swami all build-depend: libreadline4-dev, which no longer exists (need to roll to libreadline5...)
<lamont__> fix that. kthxbye
<ajmitch> ok
<lamont__> ajmitch: wow. that was easy. :-)
<lamont__> uh... my bad.
<lamont__> libfluidsynth-dev: Depends: libreadline4-dev
<lamont__> and causes the other stuff to happen
<ajmitch> yeah, that's one I need to fix for scummvm
<lamont__> (scilib build-depends: libreadline4-dev | libreadline-dev)
<ajmitch> I think I had a fixed fluidsynth to upload, or it was a sync..
* ajmitch checks
* lamont__ notes that his log files are > 24 hours old...
<ajmitch> yep, sync time
<ajmitch> lamont__: so qsynth & swami both have libreadline4-dev build-depends?
<lamont__> no
<ajmitch> fluidsynth sync will fix them all then?
<lamont__> they fail because libfluidsynth-dev (which they build-dep) depends libreadline4-dev
<ajmitch> oh good
<ajmitch> should be fixed soon then :)
<lamont__> kick me about them once fluidsynth is there
<lamont__> and I'll give them back
<ajmitch> will do
<thierry_> could anyone help me create a .desktop file for a package on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile (just to show me the way th first time, I have far too much questions right now)
<thierry_> in fact my big problem is "In debian/rules, if cdbs's gnome.mk is not used, make sure the binary* target installs the .desktop file into /usr/share/applications/ and its corresponding icon file (xpm/png/etc.) into /usr/share/pixmaps/ . Additionally if cdbs's gnome.mk is not used, you need to call dh_desktop."
<thierry_> first : where do I put dh_desktop ? in the install list of the rules file?
<thierry_> and what do I do if the program as no icon? I simply don't put the icon= line?
<crimsun> thierry_: you don't have to call dh_desktop explicitly anymore
<thierry_> ok... but why is it still on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile ?
<thierry_> because I'd like to help with these long lists but without proper explanation of the job to do, it's hard for a beginner like me
<thierry_> crimsun
<\sh> good night folks...
<ogra> night \sh
<bojan> this is only to inform you, that i will take care of the unassigned merge hztty
<\sh> ogra: don't play around with this guy..there is a time even you will forget the CoC ... and he is not worth it
<ogra> \sh, i wont
<ogra> (forget about the CoC )
<bojan> so, there is no need for someone else to take the merge
<thierry_> ogra : could you just tell me some little tips for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile
<ogra> sure
<thierry_> ogra : ok where do I put dh_desktop ? in the install list of the rules file?, crimsun told me I don't have to call dh_desktop explicitly anymore
<thierry_> then what do I do? should I take off the line of the wiki who says to do that?
<crimsun> cdbs handles it for you if you use gnome.mk
<ogra> crimsun, and in debhelper based packages ?
<thierry_> yeah but in the lines it says : if cdbs's gnome.mk is not used, you need to call dh_desktop.
<minghua> thierry_: in debian/rules
<ogra> i think you still nedd it ... i'm not aware that changed :)
<minghua> should be install target, but I'm not 100% sure
<thierry_> minguha : yeah I think it's there, but where in the file??
<thierry_> my package is space-orbit
<thierry_> ogra : and what do I do if the program as no icon? I simply don't put the icon= line?
<minghua> thierry_: I would like to quote \sh here, make sure you know the stuff under the hood before you use the fancy tools
<ajmitch> bojan: then file the bug so that it gets assigned to you on the list
<minghua> thierry_: the dh_desktop's purpose is to add some commands in the package's postinst script
<ajmitch> bojan: otherwise you'll find that someone else uploads a merge soon :)
<ogra> thierry_, put in the icon line for sanitys sake, but leave it empty
<minghua> thierry_: if I were you, I'll just put it in install target, and see if the postinst script get correctly modified
<minghua> thierry_: and you can always read the gnome.mk in cdbs, or dh_desktop man page
<minghua> thierry_: sorry I can't help you more here
<thierry_> minghua : thanks, but how can I see if the postinst script get correctly modified
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-07
<thierry_> ogra : ok and where is usualy the icon?
<ogra> n /usr/share/pixmaps ...
<ogra> dont give a path in the icon= line ...
<thierry_> ogra : yeah I know that path but I mean where is it in the package?
<ogra> if you add it in a patchhhhh you ave to uuencode it ...
<ogra> hrm... kbd broken again
* ajmitch takes an h from patch & adds it elsewhere in the sentence
<ogra> thanks :)
<ajmitch> keys sticking?
<ogra> yup
<ajmitch> that gets annoying
<ogra> bought a new keaboard before ubz :(
<\sh> ogra: icons which are not in the source, you can add in debian/ dir...uuencoded...means build-dep on sharutils
<\sh> ogra: use the sun one :)
<crimsun> ok, the word seems to be that invoking dh_desktop actually is required. A lot of packages don't do this properly.
<ajmitch> a lot should
<crimsun> In the past we've kinda turned a blind eye, because placing .desktop in /usr/share/applications/ will be picked up into the menu
<ajmitch> it *should* be picked up
<ogra> \sh, to big to hammer it in the laptop case :)
<ogra> \sh, and i'll need it for essen on saturday
<crimsun> However, as in the case of ViM, even though the menu entry is present, without actually invoking dh_desktop the proper nautilus bits aren't registered
<ajmitch> right
<\sh> ogra: wow...ISH sun keyboard at linuxtage in essen...we should take some photos
<ogra> hh
<ajmitch> hm, lunchtime
* ajmitch will be back later, might upload some pending merges :)
<ajmitch> now that scummvm should build
<ajmitch> well, once fluidsynth is synced & built
<\sh> so..night
<\sh> cu later this day
<ajmitch> night
* ajmitch wanders off for some food
<minghua> crimsun: my reading is that dh_desktop is for updating the MIME database, not menu items
<minghua> I never really tested though
<bojan> ajmitch: how do you mean file the bug?
<minghua> bojan: as the topic of the channel says, read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge please
<crimsun> minghua: that's correct
<bojan> minghua: oh, you mean in malone. that's clear
<thierry_> ogra : one last thing before I completed the new desktop entry : "if cdbs's gnome.mk is not used, make sure the binary* target installs the .desktop file into /usr/share/applications/" how do I do that?? and most of all, where do I make the changes?
* minghua reminds himself to add dh_desktop call to his own package
* ogra doesnt do that either
<ogra> thierry_, apt-get source gworldclock
<ogra> have a look at the debian dir
<ogra> (rules .desktop and control)
<andi5> hi. well, i have to admit, that i do not understand a lot of these pages the topic lists (yet). maybe someone can tell me what the process of suggesting an update of a ubuntu universe package, which was updated/revisioned in debian, but not yet in ubuntu - and where i have to do this? thanks in advance!
<andi5> is called...
<crimsun> andi5: I presume you mean an update in the current development branch, of course?
<thierry_> ogra : ok good but gworldclock doesn't use cdbs and doesn't also use dh_desktop
<andi5> crimsun: well, if current development branch == dapper... i do not know, since this package seems to be only in breezy (ref. packages.ubuntu.com)
<crimsun> andi5: we don't update packages in stable releases
<crimsun> (there are rare exceptions)
<andi5> crimsun: ok, then the package is "missing" in dapper, or something like that ;-) is that done automagically, can i suggest/watch this?
<crimsun> andi5: which package?
<andi5> libgwrap-runtime0-dev
<ogra> thierry_, nope, it just uses cp ...
<crimsun> it's in both breezy and dapper
<thierry_> ogra : yeah but is it normal (like do I need dh_desktop or do I do like gworldclock) ?
<andi5> crimsun: hmpf, i am just remembering, that i did not choose "all distros" like in debian....
<andi5> (while searching for a file, ok, i am wrong)
<crimsun> andi5: note that it's a merge candidate, and we haven't gotten to it yet
<ogra> thierry_, both is bad, upstream should add a .desktop file in the tarball ... so it doesnt really matter :)(
<andi5> soo... merging is exactly that?
<thierry_> ogra : k, going to send my patch on malone... do you want to get the bug # when it will be done?
<ogra> yep
<thierry_> ogra : bug 5288
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5288: orbit (Ubuntu) - [PATCH]  adding a .desktop file to space-orbit In: space-orbit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5288
<ogra> thierry_, did you tesbuild it ?
<thierry_> ogra : well no because my pbuilder is not yet set :(
<ogra> i doubt it will work if you dont create the usr/share/applications dir anywhere ;)
<sistpoty> Ubugtu: hztty
<sistpoty> hm... why can't Ubugtu simply understand what I want ;)
<ogra> you mean magigally read your brain ?
<sistpoty> sure... ;)
<thierry_> ogra : debian/space-orbit/usr/share/applications is not enough? I looked at gworldclock and didn't saw anything else revelant to usr/share/applications
<ogra> heh
<ogra> thierry_, i'm pretty sure there is either a mkdir in the rules or the dir is created from the dirs file
<thierry_> ogra : no mkdir in rules and dirs file is : usr/share/pixmaps
<thierry_>  usr/share/applications
<crimsun> thierry_: it's completely possible that upstream's Makefiles handle that
<sistpoty> lol: (BTS): "#337392: chicken: eggs not installable via chicken-setup"
<thierry_> ogra : so what should I do then?
<ogra> thierry_, the dirs file counts here
<thierry_> ogra : ok so I should create a dirs file with usr/share/applications in it ?
<ogra> the dirs from the dirs file are created in the target dir ...
<ogra> if you only create it for this one line, id consider a mkdir in rules ...
<ogra> from xaos:
<ogra>         mkdir -p debian/xaos/usr/share/applications
<ogra>         cp debian/xaos.desktop debian/xaos/usr/share/applications
<thierry_> ogra : cool thanks
<ogra> thats in the binary-arch target
<ogra> which reminds me, i should mail joeyh about including it in the debian package ...
<minghua> ogra: or install -D, I think
<ogra> yup, would work as well ...
<ogra> but all these solutions are hackish anyway
<thierry_> ogra : ok but I don't have any bynary-arch target (a target is like "install :" and "binary-common :" right?)
<minghua> agreed, such changes should be always pushed upstream
<ogra> yup
<thierry_> ogra : so I create binary-arch but between what and what?
<ogra> nope, add it to a existing target ...
<ogra> install is fine
<minghua> huh? missing binary-arch target is an RC bug IIRC
<ogra> not if the package is binary-indep only ...
<ogra> i.e. arch all
<ogra> why leave useless clutter in the rules ...
<minghua> ogra: the policy says otherwise: " Both the binary-arch and binary-indep targets must exist.  If one of them has nothing to do (which will always be the case if the source generates only a single binary package, whether architecture-dependent or not), it must still exist and must always succeed."
<ogra> how silly ...
<minghua> pity we don't have a annotated version of the policy with rationales
* minghua believes there is a reason for that
<ogra> i cant see one
* ajmitch returns
<minghua> let me ask on #debian-devel
<ogra> ajmitch, any idea why this is in the policy ?
<azeem> dpkg-buildpackage -B calls binary-arch, I guess that's why we want to make sure it is there, same for -b and binary-indep
<ogra> tsk ...
<ajmitch> ogra: azeem knows ;)
<ajmitch> azeem: thanks :)
<ogra> yes, thanks azeem :)
<azeem> well, that was at most an educated guess
<thierry_> ogra : added a second path to bug 5288
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5288: orbit (Ubuntu) - [PATCH]  adding a .desktop file to space-orbit In: space-orbit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5288
<ogra> makes half way sense ...
<ajmitch> more educated than my guess would be, though
<thierry_> ogra : what do you think of it?
<ogra> the thing is that dpkg-buildpackage -B wont be called for arch: all packages by pbuilder or the buildd ...
<minghua> the #debian-devel people seems to agree with azeem:
<minghua> (17:49:33) peterS: minghua: so that a build daemon can build only arch-dependent packages, if it wishes
<ajmitch> historical reasons perhaps
<ogra> yup
<minghua> and Debian buildds indeed only build arch-dependent packages, I think
<ajmitch> I know that for the hurd, for example, you had to build only the binaries since some of the other build-deps were missing :)
<azeem> yes
* ajmitch still has an old gnu/hurd install :)
<minghua> so they must be calling some sort of -B build command
<ogra> ah, .... i'm so spoiled by ubuntu buildds :)
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch wonders what's stalling moving to launchpad this time
<minghua> ubuntu buildds just build everything and throw away things that are already in archive?
<minghua> or is there a _all buildd as well? :-P
* azeem was just wondering as well
<ajmitch> I'd ask lamont__
<azeem> minghua: easy to look up at your next build log
<ogra> i know it works ...
<ajmitch> well we expect the buildds to work :)
<ogra> http://tiber.tauware.de/cgi-bin/buildlogs.cgi?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/student-control-panel/0.1/student-control-panel_0.1_20051115-1858-i386-successful.gz
<sistpoty> ajmitch: do you mean moving to soyuz?
<ajmitch__> sistpoty: yes
<ogra> thats one without binary-arch
<sistpoty> ajmitch: they found out, that the database from soyuz differed from dak, actually because of bugs in dak (katie?) according to what siretart told me today
<sistpoty> ajmitch: and since the diff is quite huge, they need to eliminate the false positives from soyuz, to be able to check if everything is ok
<minghua> arch:all only packages don't get caught even in Debian anyway, since no buildd would pick it up
<sistpoty> ajmitch: but i guess this info is around three corners and may not be accurate ;)
<ajmitch> yes, I heard that the archive needed to be sorted out
<ajmitch> so more waiting :)
<sistpoty> we both agreed to speed up with merges, before soyuz will hit us *g*
<ajmitch> hehe
* ajmitch has about 20-30 merges accepted but not uploaded
<siretart> gina is running already running on staging, from what I heared
<siretart> hi folks
<ajmitch> so I'd better have a busy merge weekend :)
<ogra> hey siretart
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<sistpoty> siretart: piuparts rocks!
<ajmitch> at least 4-5 should be ready for upload tonight
<minghua> hi siretart
<ajmitch> sistpoty: it does
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I'll try hook it into the stage 2 parts of revu2
<sistpoty> ajmitch: cool :)
* ajmitch built a dapper chroot in /home/elma/chroots
<ajmitch> so I have to write some stuff to tar it, update it, etc
<ajmitch> so that a fresh build can have a fresh chroot
<ajmitch> & similar for lintian/linda
<ajmitch> duplicates some of pbuilder :)
<ajmitch> so I'll rip code from there
<sistpoty> gna... that reminds me of s.th.... i guess I won't do ProcessController (that will control stage1/stage2) before tomorrow night
<sistpoty> ajmitch: sounds great :)
<ajmitch> I'll try & reduce duplication as much as possible
<ajmitch> put in a cron job to update the chroots every few hours
<ajmitch> keep 2-3 base tarballs around just for safety ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> I'd like to have a daily run of installability checks for universe, btw
<ajmitch> we could probably use britney for that
<sistpoty> ajmitch: you mean unmet deps?
<siretart> huhu minghua
<ajmitch> sistpoty: yes
<thierry_> ogra : could you tell me if patch for bug 5288 is alright (so that I can move to an other one)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5288: orbit (Ubuntu) - [PATCH]  adding a .desktop file to space-orbit In: space-orbit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5288
<siretart> ajmitch: please check your updates script into the revu2 svn
<sistpoty> ajmitch: we briefly discussed that today... we could reuse the merge-listing for generic handling of e.g. unmet deps, transitions
<siretart> once you have them
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> sistpoty: that's reasonable
<ogra> thierry_, looks ok to me, but please do a testbuild in a pbuilder ...
<thierry_> ogra : k...
<minghua> thierry_: usually you need to build and test your package before moving to next one
<ajmitch> we can't really file the bugs straight from that page, due to gpg
<thierry_> ajmitch : gpg?
<ajmitch> yes, you need it to sign emails
<sistpoty> no, we can't... but lpbugs does that job pretty good... maybe extend that?
<ajmitch> I think so
<ajmitch> \sh is wanting to work on it a bit
<sistpoty> cool :)
<thierry_> ajmitch : mmm ok, but there's no emails there...
<siretart> well, we could install an not that secure key into launchpad. but I don't think we'd need that
<ajmitch> thierry_: yes, filing a bug via email
<thierry_> ajmitch : why would I do that while we have malone?
<ajmitch> which is what we usually do for merges now
<ajmitch> thierry_: because malone has an email interface?
<ajmitch> and it's convenient to just give a package name to a script, and have an email sent off to file the bug
<minghua> thierry_: you don't need to use the email interface (I used not to), but you need to assign the bug to motu-mergers
<minghua> thierry_: follow the steps in the wiki
<ajmitch> minghua: he's doing .desktop adding though
<thierry_> minguha : what page of the wiki?
<minghua> ajmitch: or, forgot that, sorry
<minghua> thierry_: sorry, never mind
<ajmitch> siretart: I think we could extend lpbugs.py for .desktop files, too :)
<ajmitch> make it more general
<sistpoty> good idea
<ajmitch> eg marking something for review
* ajmitch searches for a hammer
<ogra> ajmitch ??
<sistpoty> i guess it's just another approach doing merges *g*
<ajmitch> certain people :)
<ogra> ajmitch, you mean certain *single* people i guess
<ajmitch> ogra: yes..
* ogra looks for an axe to lend ....
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> I should do merges tonight :)
* ogra findes the one with "teach CoC" engraved in the shaft
<ogra> oops
<sistpoty> lol
<ajmitch> I know...
<ogra> but he loves to talk to the empty channel ...
* ogra kicks kino
<Kyral> Okay, yah, I no like udev. Access the HD takes WAAAY too much power
<Kyral> Is it smart to turn DMA on on your HDs?
<LaserJock> Kyral: you don't have DMA on on your hard drives?
<Kyral> Its not on it seems
<Kyral> I think I should turn it on
<LaserJock> all of mine are on (hard drives and cd/dvd drives)
<Kyral> Well, operation not permitted?!
<Kyral> (while sudoing)
<raphink> ok bed time
<Kyral> oh and SATA drives don't have DMA it seems
<sistpoty> gnight raphink
<raphink> thanks
<raphink> if anyone could review my packages I would love it ;)
<raphink> I mean I would really appreciate :)
<Kyral> hdparm won't turn on..
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> DMA
<sistpoty> raphink: sorry, can't make a promise tonight
<raphink> (the ones signed by raphink@raphink.net, and particularly the ones that have already been advocated)
<raphink> that's ok sistpoty :)
<raphink> bye
<sistpoty> cya
<LaserJock> what do you guys think are the essential packages to install for packaging?
<Kyral> debhelper
<Kyral> devscripts
<Kyral> Pbuilder :D
<LaserJock> I can think of dev-scripts, build-essential
<Kyral> maybe CDDB
<sistpoty> piuparts is nice nice to have
* sistpoty also recommends lintian, linda
<LaserJock> Kyral: CDDB ? ;p
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> cdbs
<Kyral> :P
<sistpoty> debian-policy is almost a must ;)
<LaserJock> what about dpkg-dev, dh-make, gnupg
<Kyral> and NOT Checkinstall
<LaserJock> lol
<Kyral> I think dh-make is in debhelper
<LaserJock> Kyral: I think it is seperate
<ajmitch__> no
<ajmitch__> separate
<Kyral> LaserJock, dev-scripts depends on gnupg
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok
<Kyral> I'd say rip that part out of the NMG
<LaserJock> I'm trying to make a list of both what you need as individual packages and sort of a "here's the apt-get line" listing
<LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, I just wanted to see if the NMG had everything
<Kyral> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-start.en.html#s-needprogs
<Kyral> Shoot, dev-scripts pulls in a LOT
<tseng> thats why its plural
<LaserJock> sistpoty: hmm, piuparts loooks really cool. Do you use it a lot
<Kyral> lol point :P
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I haven't known of it since today... but I'm totally convinced for the few hours I use it :)
<Kyral> sistpoty: yah it does
* Kyral installs it
<LaserJock> I'll have to keep track of that. It might be useful in the packaging guide
<Kyral> Maybe we should make a "dev-tools" metapackage
<Kyral> *hides*
<LaserJock> Kyral: I think the problem is that there are many ways (tools) to do packaging
<Kyral> Well the basic ones
<Kyral> like all the necessary ones
<LaserJock> Kyral: I think probably devscripts is probably that
<Kyral> Has stuff left out :P
<LaserJock> Kyral: like what?
<sistpoty> all the really basic ones should be in build-essentials
<Kyral> dh_make
<LaserJock> Kyral: do you have to use it to make a package?
<Kyral> No, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier
<Kyral> and until ajmitch__ gives his "Packages from SCRATCH" tutorial, it the only way I know how :D
<ajmitch__> "How to make a fool of yourself in realtime on IRC!"
<Kyral> lol
<LaserJock> wow, gnuplot is a Suggests for devscripts?
<ajmitch__> sure
<Kyral> Suggests are never automatically installed
<ajmitch__> plot dependency trees
<LaserJock> ajmitch__: ahh, I am used to using for scientific plotting
* Kyral goes to try out piuparts
<Kyral> sistpoty: it does all tests automagically?
<LaserJock> ok, so maybe with exception of the newly found piuparts, it looks like the NMG list is good?
<Kyral> yah
<sistpoty> Kyral: if it can, it does
<Kyral> I should use -d dapper :P
<sistpoty> LaserJock: -xutils, -g77, -gpc, +build-essential (my suggestion)
<Kyral> hmm, there doesn't seem to be a provision to use multiple pbuilder base gzs
<sistpoty> Kyral: you can still specify the base.tgz (-b iirc)
<Kyral> Aww HELL I hate my school
<Kyral> ah lol
<LaserJock> sistpoty: ok
<Kyral> but I still hate my school
<Kyral> they slapped a bandwidth limit on us
<Kyral> of 50 kb/s
<LaserJock> Kyral: bummer
<LaserJock> Kyral: ouch
<Kyral> and everytime I do things with apt
<Kyral> it takes up my entire limit
<Kyral> so I start lagging out to IRC
<SEJeff> Kyral: You need to set up something like m0n0wall to do outbound traffic QOS
<Kyral> or bitch like HELL to my OIT
<SEJeff> Kyral: You can give higher priority to interactive protocols like ftp, irc, ssh, etc while giving lower priorities to apt
<tseng> its getting old asking you to knock that off
<bmonty> you can do that with iptables
<Kyral> tseng: huh?
<tseng> about the damn hell shit whatever you are whinging about
<Kyral> sorry.....
<tseng> is pbuilder debuild supposed to do something worthwhile?
<tseng> it seems to install a few packages and kindly return me to my shell
<Kyral> Just really angers me that I suffer because of other people abusing the net
<LaserJock> is there a way to find out what packages are installed by the install cd?
<Kyral> base-config?
<Kyral> ubuntu-desktop?
<Kyral> I know ssh is in the default install
<SEJeff> I am still shocked that ssh-server isn't installed (even if disabled) by default
<SEJeff> It doesn't make sense to me
<Kyral> Because most people don't need to be able to SSH into thier boxes ;P
<sistpoty> Kyral: i guess (k)ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-minimal... not sure about that though
<LaserJock> yeah, I would find it weird to ssh out of a machine but not get back in
<SEJeff> Kyral: I am serious
<Kyral> You find it wierd because you are used to it
<Kyral> SEJeff: so am I
<SEJeff> If mark wants to push ubuntu as an enterprise os, it needs ssh server by default
<Kyral> Think about the "typical" windows users
<SEJeff> Can we say manageability
<SEJeff> Thats bs
<SEJeff> I am talking about for corporate deployments
<Kyral> oh
<Kyral> I focus on the Desktop side :P
<SEJeff> Why did Mark create ubuntu? for the South African govt
<Amaranth> no
<SEJeff> So in essence, Ubuntu was created to be an enterprise distro from the start
<tseng> it takes a few seconds to install openssh-server
<bmonty> SEJeff: I think having ssh enabled on all the boxes would be a manageablilty nightmare
<SEJeff> I never said by default
<SEJeff> That is stupid
<Kyral> still
<Kyral> SEJeff: I don't like the default config of Ubuntu
* SEJeff is a 'nix Systems admin for a living
<Kyral> but I don't complain about it
<SEJeff> I'm not complaining, I just don't see the reasoning behind it
<Amaranth> LCD
<Amaranth> least common denominator
<tseng> there are 2 very simple reasons
<Kyral> Because I know that I can get everything the way I like it within' a half hour
<tseng> 1) least possible configuration, so installing a package does all the nessecary setup
<tseng> for main stuff esp
<tseng> 2) no open ports in -desktop
<Amaranth> wait, LCD was the wrong term
<Amaranth> go with tseng
<tseng> when you put 1 and 2 together you get no openssh-server in default install
<Kyral> The typical windows user has never heard of SSH
<tseng> no one cares much about the typical windows user at this point
<SEJeff> tseng: 2 is void. I didn't say to enable it by default. I merely said to install it
<tseng> see 1
<Kyral> I mean the kind of user trying Ubuntu for the first time
<SEJeff> Kyral: You and I are on totally different levels
<Kyral> SEJeff: No kiddin'
<tseng> SEJeff: 1 tells you that services get started when you install them
<Kyral> I'm a second year CS Major
<SEJeff> Kyral: And that is great because? I know PHD CS graduates who still suck at any posix operating system
<tseng> if "levels" have something to do with the conversation at hand i am a programmer, dba, and sysadmin for 2 dozen systems
<Kyral> SEJeff: I'd be glad to take this to PM (I don't want to annoy tseng anymore)
* sistpoty is just a stupid student
<SEJeff> I meant levels as far as Ubuntu from a manageability standpoint
<tseng> Kyral: you can talk all you want as long as its constructive
<Kyral> tseng: okay
<SEJeff> I am an admin and I have 2,000 ubuntu desktops
<Kyral> and no cursing ;P
<tseng> cursing is ok too, with moderation
<SEJeff> I configure a local apt repo for "enterprise" updates
<tseng> an no caps
<LaserJock> tseng: the only thing that seems odd to me is I have always thought of ssh as a single program, but I'm just a chemist so you can ignore me
<tseng> LaserJock: haha :)
<SEJeff> naturally, ssh is the only way to have scripts run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
<SEJeff> tseng: bloody hell :-)
<Kyral> SEJeff: You know what *Nix people do when they have to do multiple command line ops over and over again?
<tseng> LaserJock: a client and server rolled into one is scary. (there are many different ssh servers, and clients)
<SEJeff> Kyral: It is called shell scripts
<Kyral> Bingo
<Kyral> So write one to solve your problem :P
<SEJeff> Kyral: I did that a few minutes after installing ubuntu
<SEJeff> Kickstart is semi-functional
<LaserJock> tseng: ah, makes more sense. But it was weird for me because Ubuntu was the first distro I had to install the ssh server on
<tseng> you could make a preseed file that installs openssh
<SEJeff> Maybe I will try to get that working
<tseng> and remaster your install cd
<tseng> LaserJock: im not sure a debian install even gives you a client
<Kyral> I'm rather glad that it doesn't come with anything that opens ports
<SEJeff> tseng: or use a pxeboot disk to grab an image off of the network
<tseng> SEJeff: indeed :)
<Kyral> Now thats something VERY cool
<Kyral> LTSP :D
<tseng> netboot install != ltsp
<tseng> but they are both cool enough :)
<brendan_> hi, i would like to modify one of the packages in ubuntu, and host it with my own repository, and have ubuntu ignore updates to the package in the official repository and oly use my edided version.
<brendan_> is this possible?
<LaserJock> tseng: well, I've never really run Debian before so I wouldn't know
<Kyral> Apt-Pin
<Kyral> tseng: did you see the demo at UBuntu LOve?
<tseng> i skipped UBZ, unfortunately
<tseng> we only had a few minutes of LOve in sydney
<Kyral> ah
<LaserJock> brendan_: how many packages are you thinking about?
<Kyral> I was only at UBZ for Love Day
<tseng> some old guys talked about ubuntu usability
<sistpoty> brendan_: sounds like pinning is what you'd want
<Kyral> ogra and some LTSP guys did a live demo
<tseng> good deal
<Kyral> indeed
<Kyral> "We do NOT have a drinking problem in this project!
<tseng> in sydney he gave me a good demo of snoring
<brendan_> not too many packages
<brendan_> at most 10 or 15
<Kyral> - Jeff Waugh
<tseng> man i talked to jeff smashed from ubz more than a few days
<minghua> tseng: no, a debian default install doesn't have ssh, client or server
<Kyral> lol
<brendan_> sistpoty: what is pinning? is there some documentation on it?
<Kyral> I was surprised that Mark was like a normal guy
<tseng> about as normal as geeks get
<minghua> brendan_: it's calling apt-pinning, google for "APT howto"
<Kyral> tseng: by normal I meant like us geeks :P
<tseng> he does have creepy magic beer hands
<Kyral> lol
<tseng> he can conjure beer from nothing
<Kyral> Again I hear Jeff going "We do NOT have a drinking problem in this project!"
<ajmitch> Kyral: of course we don't
<Kyral> We are very good at it, right :D
<tseng> I dont, on account of being straight edge
<Kyral> Neither do I
<bmonty> you guys are a drinking team with an ubuntu problem
<Kyral> lol
* SEJeff nods
<Kyral> Ubuntu isn't the problem
<Kyral> Windows in the problem ;P
<sistpoty> MOTUDrinkers - we solve prolbems by drinking ;)
<Kyral> lol
<bmonty> sistpoty: you need a REVU page for beer reviews
<Kyral> lol
<sistpoty> lol bmonty:
<SEJeff> See malone bug #1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share In: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Kyral> hehe
<SEJeff> Was that a bot?
<Kyral> Anyone have an idea where the next conference is?
<Kyral> aye
<tseng> SEJeff: yes
<SEJeff> awesome
<tseng> Kyral: random guess, africa
<Kyral> hmmm
<tseng> we hit north and south america, asia, and europe
<ajmitch> random guess, europe again
<Kyral> How much would that cost from the US...
<ajmitch> at least that's what suggestions were
<tseng> ajmitch: not capetown?
<Kyral> Well if its in Germany I'm good b/c I have family in Germany
<ajmitch> germany was suggested
<Kyral> Whats the drinking age in Germany? ;D
<tseng> 16
<Kyral> hmmm.... interesting...
<sistpoty> beer 16, spirits 18
<schweeb> ^^^
<Kyral> and I'm 20
<tseng> schweebles!
<Kyral> and I've heard that American beer is **** next to German beer
<schweeb> yo
<schweeb> Kyral: duh
<tseng> you will be shit next to German beer is more like it
<bmonty> lol
<schweeb> we have Canada, and microbrews though
<schweeb> tseng: indeed
<sistpoty> well, iirc germany has much more flavours than any other contry
<schweeb> german beer will hand you your ass
<Kyral> so if my first drink would to be anything...
<Kyral>  :P
<sistpoty> there are some really bad among them as well ;)
<SEJeff> Kyral: You heard right
<bmonty> i like bitberger
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I think I will save myself for German beer then :P
<schweeb> I'm pretty attached to alcohol, if there's alcohol in it, I'll probably drink it
<sistpoty> lol
<schweeb> except for mouthwash and the like
<Kyral> Vanilla Extract?
<bmonty> schweeb: thats called alcholism :)
<schweeb> things that are intended for drinking, I should clarify
<schweeb> indeed it is
<schweeb> that's a problem to solve later in life though :p
<Kyral> the meeting got moved to 1400 UTC?
<tseng> schweeb: how goes the tape swapping?
<bmonty> damn it is hard to type while holding a baby
<schweeb> I say all of this as I'm preparing to go to the bar
<schweeb> tseng: the SAN does that for me, bish
<tseng> san schman
<schweeb> but I'm up to working from home 4 days/wk
<schweeb> :)
<schweeb> I didn't change out of my boxers until about 45 mins ago
<schweeb> being lazy rocks
<tseng> yeesh i need the vpn hookup
<tseng> hopefully soon
<bmonty> ajmitch: I emailed my key directly to elmo, but I've been reading the Uploads page and it says to send keys to keyring@ubuntu.com...does that go to the same place?
<tseng> in theory
<Amaranth> elmo gets them right now but he might not always
<tseng> friendlier to not mail someone directly
<tseng> and more future-proof
<Amaranth> plus it's more likely to get to him in a way he notices through keyring@u.c
<Amaranth> he gets massive ammounts of email
<bmonty> I'll resend it then
<tseng> it could still take a few days
<bmonty> Amaranth: yeah, I figured his email load is more than I would want to contemplate :)
<ajmitch> or weeks
<ajmitch> took at least a couple of weeks for me
<tseng> it takes days for me, he knows who i am
<tseng> oh you were just a pain :P
<ajmitch> of course
<bmonty> I'm good with that...I just want to make sure I did the right thing
<tseng> it took forever for new motus
<tseng> last big batch
<tseng> people started making a big fuss
<ajmitch> he was apologiesing to me for it taking long
<ajmitch> and I cannot spell
<Amaranth> apologizing
<Amaranth> or apologising, if you're in UK
<Amaranth> i guess
<ajmitch> well
<ajmitch> I can spell
<ajmitch> my fingers just choose not to
<Amaranth> tseng: Is tomboy safe to backport?
<Amaranth> jdong is asking on the backports list
<ajmitch> the crackports list.. sigh
* ajmitch shuts up
<tseng> i unsubscribed after he went on for the 500ths time about backporting illegal stuff
<Amaranth> hehe
<tseng> but yes
<tseng> he can backport tomboy if it builds for him
<Amaranth> it went from "backports things lots of users want" to "backport anything that builds, installs, and runs on breezy"
<tseng> i dont forsee world ending events
<ajmitch> has he backported firefox yet & broken the world?
<Amaranth> he is working on it :P
<ajmitch> we had plenty of things break in main & universe with a new firefox
<bmonty> nice, I sent my key to keyring@ubuntu.com, and I get a nice autoreply with a ticket number :)
<tseng> yeah he told me about how assslow firefox 1.0.7 is
<ajmitch> bmonty: that's good
<Amaranth> brb
<ajmitch> if he backports 1.5, he'll drag in at least 20 other packages
<tseng> mroe
<tseng> *more
<tseng> i wish they got somewhere with GRE
<tseng> and we could build against libgecko, not firefox
<Amaranth> tseng: firefox 2 will use xulruner
<Amaranth> err, xulrunner
<ajmitch> tseng: of course we'd still have apps breaking due to new libgecko
<tseng> you could backport firefox to breezy libgecko
<tseng> in my imaginary world
<ajmitch> a world of pain & anguish
<tseng> for everyone but me, yes
<tseng> this is freaking classic
<tseng> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheadername1=Content-Type&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadervalue1=image%2Fjpeg&blobheadervalue2=inline%3B+filename%3DSES_main-pg1.jpg&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1132214806875&ssbinary=true
<tseng> "just push the button!"
<SEJeff> *cough* tinyurl.com
<SEJeff> WEP is easy to crack as 1, 2, 3. Sing with me now
<tseng> did it say anything about wep?
<SEJeff> tseng, That picture is funny
<sistpoty> what button should i push then, poweroff-button?
<SEJeff> The last time I used the Linksys tools for secure wireless, it set up wep
* ajmitch should setup 64-bit WEP & see how long it takes to crack
<SEJeff> So I used the webgui to set up WPA
<tseng> ajmitch: just have a few hosts copy large data across
<tseng> it will take no time
<SEJeff> ajmitch, normally ~10-15 minutes or less with weplab or aircrack
<SEJeff> You don't even need to do that
<SEJeff> There are injection attacks to make the hosts respond when you want them to
<ajmitch> I know there's at least 3-4 networks in range of this office
<tseng> speaking of cracking, there is some stupid website my friends have been trying to hack into about this tv show Lost
<bmonty> SEJeff: how much does the "injection attack" reduce the time to crack the WEP key on a low traffic network?
<ajmitch> this is why WPA is used at home
<SEJeff> http://www.hackingdefined.com/index.php/Demos
<tseng> it cats the password and and user together and does a hash in javascript to test the login
<tseng> they were running 4 instances of rainbow crack on my box
<ajmitch> how useful
<sistpoty> only recently my pet hacked into my stereo
<sistpoty> but the cable is repaired now :)
<SEJeff> tseng: Rainbowcrack is amazing for windows passwords
<SEJeff> tseng: I spent a week making the tables and 30 seconds cracking passwords
<tseng> not so amazing for unknown length words :)
<tseng> it could be 12, it could be 20
<Lathiat> tseng: haha
<SEJeff> I generated and 8 char table alphanumeric with extended stuff
<tseng> i think they gave up
<SEJeff> Thats most passwords
<tseng> the rcrack guy sells a rather large table
<ajmitch> some people have too much time to generate these tables
* tseng sleep
<Amaranth> you could do versioned libgecko packages
<tseng> Amaranth: exactly
<tseng> thats why gnome doesnt assplode every time we update a lib
<tseng> unless you are running sid..
<tseng> or the lib in question is libdbus
<ajmitch> or libpng
<Amaranth> libpng is just sad, dbus is understandable
<Kyral> Is there a Wikipage for Fluxbox yet...
<ajmitch> should there be one?
<Kyral> There is one, and its in the Cleanup section
<ajmitch> ok, so you answered your question :)
<Kyral> yah
<bmonty> good night everyone
<Kyral> cya
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<minghua> the MOTU Report is already sent out, right?
* minghua is talking about the channel topic
<ajmitch> yes
<hub> hey dholbach
<dholbach> good morning motus
<hub> early bird?
<dholbach> hey hub :)
<dholbach> catches the worm :)
<Kyral> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey Kyral :)
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey LaserJock
<dholbach> how are you all?
<hub> tired
<hub> time for bed
<Kyral> About to shower before bed
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<Kyral> and I have to finish a WikiPage tomorrow
<minghua> morning dholbach
<hub> the libpano12 upgrade break hugin
<hub> krap
<hub> I have to patch it
<hub> not tonite
<hub> maybe this week-end
* ajmitch wonders how broken his system currently is
<dholbach> Kyral: which one?
<dholbach> hub: should be fun, shouldnt it?
<dholbach> ajmitch: which one?
<dholbach> hey minghua
<Kyral> one of my Forum comrades started one on Fluxbox
<Kyral> I got his permission to edit at will :P
<ajmitch> dholbach: my dapper desktop system :)
<dholbach> Kyral: ah cool
<dholbach> ajmitch: shouldnt be THAT broken :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: still on 2.6.12..
<ajmitch> I don't want to reboot yet :)
<dholbach> it's not that bad :)
<Kyral> After which I will put my name on the CC Agenda
<dholbach> ajmitch: you can always choose the old one in the list
<ajmitch> dholbach: sure, but it's the udev/initramfs stuff that would break
<ajmitch> rather then the kernel
<dholbach> i was fine, when i booted the old one
<LaserJock> right now the 2.6.15 kernel is much better for me
<ajmitch> I'll wait until I have another system to break at will
<dholbach> (for rescuing, when udev was broken)
<dholbach> but now it's fine
<dholbach> i see
* ajmitch still has ~250 packages held back
<ajmitch> most of them kde :)
<dholbach> :))
<Kyral> I have one supporter from the Forums coming to support me on Tuesday
<LaserJock> the only problem I had was I had to completely remove pcmcia
<ajmitch> Kyral: doing merges would help your chances of a MOTU speaking up for you ;)
<Kyral> Yah yah
<LaserJock> I still haven't figured out how to find what packages are install by default in Ubuntu
<Kyral> LJ mind explaining merging to me sometime this weekend?
<LaserJock> Kyral: sure
<ajmitch> merging is dead simple
<LaserJock> dpkg-dev isn't installed by default is it?
<ajmitch> no, there's no reason to
<LaserJock> DNMG says that it should already be install, but I didn't think so for Ubuntu
<zakame> afternoon all :)
<ajmitch> hi :)
<ajmitch> zakame: what TZ are you in? UTC+9 ?
<zakame> ajmitch: UTC+8 :) But I think jerome's at UTC+9 now
<ajmitch> ok
<minghua> hi zakame
<zakame> hello minghua :) how's everything?
<minghua> zakame: which country are you in?
<zakame> philippines
<minghua> zakame: good, but busy.  it's final week at school, and lots of homework to grade
<minghua> still better than DOing homework, though :-)
<minghua> zakame: I ask because china is in UTC+8 as well
<zakame> minghua: hehe :-)  I myself am in back-to-school mode, having some assignments to pass
<ajmitch> crimsun: sigh, I didn't realise you'd merged xdiskusage already, since it was still on the new list
<zakame> hi slomo :D
<Kyral> Goodnight MOTUs
<slomo> hi zakame, gn8 Kyral ;)
<Kyral> slomo: check my package ;P
<slomo> Kyral: sure
<slomo> Kyral: can you wait some seconds before leaving ;)
<slomo> Kyral: you have my vote ;)
<dholbach> oh yeah - a REVU day!
<LaserJock> slomo: you can upload the same version to review?
<slomo> LaserJock: ? you mean uploading something with the same version number multiple times? yes... revu works on upload date, not version number
<LaserJock> slomo: hmm, I have never gotten it to work
<LaserJock> I have always had to bump the version number to get it to show up in REVU
<slomo> LaserJock: where's the problem? when dput tells you that you've already uploaded it either delete the .upload file or use dput -f foo.changes
<LaserJock> slomo: I do that put it doesn't ever show up on REVU
<LaserJock> s/put/but/
<LaserJock> then I bump the version and it is there
<slomo> LaserJock: hmm, tell siretart about it... or ping me when you can try it again ;)
<LaserJock> slomo: will do, I just don't know what I'm doing wrong :(
<slomo> bbl
<bojan> morning
<dholbach> hi bojan
<zakame> hi bojan :)
<bojan> hi dholbach, zakame
<bojan> i've downloaded the hztty package, and would like take care of it
<bojan> but first i have to file it in malone, right?
<crimsun> ajmitch: sorry 'bout that
<ajmitch> it was a 2 min merge anyway :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | Grab your merge here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new | sign up for ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com now!
<siretart> fucking scriptkiddies.. :/
<siretart> morning
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<ajmitch> what's wrong?
<slomo_> hi siretart :)
<ajmitch> siretart: it's not tiber, is it?
<siretart> ajmitch: no, not tiber
<slomo_> siretart: any idea why filing a rename bug with lpbugs on libqalculate doesn't show up? all bugreports before it and after it worked... i already tried it two times ;)
<siretart> 'freiburg' was hacked yesterday. (running http://tauware.de and http://chummer.net)
<ajmitch> slomo_: package might not be listed in LP
<siretart> some script kiddie found it fun to install an openftpd and shareing movies
<ajmitch> sigh
<siretart> well, now I have 2 new movies..
* ajmitch gets an urge to break some bones
<ajmitch> hehe
<slomo_> ajmitch: oh ok, well needs only a giveback anyway
<slomo_> hehe which movies? ;)
<siretart> mr.mrs.smith.pal.nl.dvdr.iso and bbk-tah.pal.nl.dvdr.iso
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> nl? hmm
<slomo_> hehe
<crimsun> dang. At least they could have pirated better movies.
<siretart> jepp :/
<slomo_> what's the second one? the first one is boring imho ;)
<siretart> The.Amityville.Horror.2005.PAL.NL.DVDR-BiERBUiKEN
<\sh_away> slomo_: package not in LP database?
<ajmitch> hey \sh
<\sh> moins
<slomo_> \sh: maybe... what shall i do? register it?
<siretart> does anyone know joomla?
<\sh> slomo_: ping kiko on #launchpad to add it to the database...as far as I know they didn't imported all new dapper packages to the DB
<slomo_> ok, done
<siretart> morning \sh
<\sh> hey siretart
<siretart> gnarf. I these damn php kiddies..
<siretart> why cannot they setup announce mailinglist?
<crimsun> hehe
<slomo_> lol
<slomo_> when searching for slomosnail on google the merge page is the first hit =)
<bojan> to /sh: is it true that there was a tutorial about packaging in #ubuntu-motu-school already?
<\sh> bojan: no...there was a quick session about diff and patch usage instead of dpatch
<bojan> ah, is there a log of this session, for the people, who were not there?
<slomo_> bbl
<crimsun> http://netz.smurf.noris.de/logs/freenode/
<bojan> crimsun: thx
<crimsun> lovely. vtk fails due to ''cp -r a f'' instead of ''cp -r a/* f''
<\sh> bojan: from this session no..but Kyral volunteered to write a sum up
<dholbach> \sh: nobody has it in .xchat2/xchatlogs/?
<colinl> hi
<colinl> Lathiat: any news on the patches I sent you regarding the arbitrary code execution in Sylpheed and Sylpheed-Claws?
<bojan> \sh: ok
<crimsun> colinl: if you don't hear back in a few hours, ping me this afternoon (it's 5:33 AM localtime)
<colinl> crimsun: ok
<crimsun> janimo: 'morning, I'll have some time for Xfce this afternoon.
<janimo> crimsun, hey
<janimo> great
<janimo> REVU stuff, or something else you have in mind?
<janimo> ALSA is broken in this new kernel so I didn't hear you at first :)
<dredg> \sh: got a minute?
<\sh> dredg: sure..8 mins before I go to lunch =
<dredg> just need to confirm your phone number
<dredg> +49 700 sourcecode == +49 700 7687232633
<dredg> is this correct?
<dredg> (nice phone number btw)
<\sh> dredg: yes...
<\sh> dredg: correct :)
<dredg> excellent
<ogra> every motu please call \sh to confirm its really him :)
* dredg laughs
<\sh> ogra: there is a voicebox answering :)
<\sh> ogra: the others have my mobile :)
<raphink> hehe
<ogra> but still, do such things in a query, not everybody likes his number in a publich logged channel ;) (i dont mind either...)
<raphink> I shall :)
<dredg> \sh: done. you should hear from someone over the next few days
<\sh> dredg: thx :) I think I owe you now some favours as well :)
<raphink> ogra: I think I wouldn't like it much myself ;)
<dredg> anyone else? ;)
<raphink> what for dredg ?
<dholbach> :)
<ogra> raphink, thats what i meant, i dont care myself.... but this channel is logged and now everybody who searches for \sh and phone number might find it on google ;)
<\sh> ogra: hahaha.....
<raphink> yes
<dredg> hey, we could stage a motu takeover of google from the inside... :)
<ogra> cool idea :)
<raphink> ogra: oh well it was somehow ... crypted lol
<\sh> ogra: well...sometimes you are so right ,-)
<raphink> dredg: why now ;)
<raphink> not
<janimo> anybody feel like revu-ing xubuntu-docs? _very_ simple and small package based on kubuntu-docs, thanks
<raphink> I was teaching one of my teenager students yesterday to not give up personal information on the internet... bad example for him...
<ogra> heh
<raphink> janimo: hey how d'you dare advertising like this ? ;) j/k
<janimo> I am shameless
<raphink> I've got about 10 packages waiting to be reviewed .... some of them have already been advocated once
<janimo> in the morning
<dredg> \sh: and good luck. if there's anything more i can help you with, yell
<\sh> dredg: sure :)
<janimo> raphink, hmm let me take a look then at some of your packages
<raphink> sure janimo :)
<raphink> they are the ones signed by raphink@raphink.net ;)
<raphink> easy ;)
<janimo> yup saw them
<janimo> any which is not kde related?
<raphink> haha
<janimo> I'd like to take on easy and small ones as I am not  only shameless but lazy too
<raphink> you mean not directly-kde-related ?
<raphink> or not kubuntu/kde related at all ;)
<dredg> raphink: ah, just read back and saw your 'what for?'. jobs in google. i ccan accept CVs and skip them over the queueing process
<janimo> really, low bandwidth and things like that
<raphink> ok let's find small and easy ones ...
<janimo> I'd like not to have to dl 20 minutes fro REVUing one package
<raphink> what kinds of jobs dredg ?
<janimo> even if after that it would attenuate if I revu more
<raphink> ic
<raphink> let me see
<raphink> konq-toutf8 should be fine for you...
<raphink> it's _very_ small and _very_ simple
<janimo> I was just looking at it
<raphink> and then konq-encrypt-menu is of the same kind
<janimo> ok I'll take a look then
<raphink> ok
<dholbach> we'll have a review day next week
<dholbach> we really need it
<janimo> but building it requires whole KDE?
<raphink> :)
<raphink> I'll brb
<dredg> raphink: i'm only aware of the ones in ireland, but any of the jobs on http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/static.py?page=search.html
<raphink> ok
<raphink> not sure I'd like to apply for a google job, if I ever could
<dredg> if you are (or anyone else is) interested, send me a cv in ascii with one or more jobs you'd like to apply for and i'll submit it to one of our recruiters for consideration
<dredg> and by recruiters i don't mean soul-sucking beings of evil that screw with your head. i mean a recruiter that works for us.
* raphink doesn't even have a single degree in computer sciences ;)
<dredg> raphink: uh, me either :)
<raphink> hehe
* dholbach likes dredg's use of language :)
<dredg> dholbach: i aim to please
<raphink> actually, if I ever had to work in computer sciences, I can't tell what level is
<dholbach> you do well
<raphink> I mean what lever I have
<raphink> pfiew :p
<raphink> s/lever/level
<dredg> dholbach: not bitter about past experiences with recruiters. oh no.
* raphink hides in the corner for a while, looks at his bed, jumps in it and goes back to sleep
<dredg> raphink: right, but you generally have some idea of what you're good at :)
<raphink> hmm well I've got such a weird education
<raphink> lol
<raphink> lately I'm studying innovative pedagogies, and I doubt google is intersted in that ... although that could help increasing productivity
<dredg> heh. for reference, my boss' boss' boss is the senior director of IS/IT and has no computer qualifications
<dredg> i think he has a psychology background
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<colinl> while we're at throwing jobs around, french-speaking people willing to relocate to Toulouse, with a good Linux kernel knowledge (especially in the storage area) and interest in clustering, could apply for jobs at Seanodes: http://www.seanodes.com/careers.htm
<raphink> seems interesting, but far too technical for me so far
<raphink> welcome to #oss-jobs ;)
<dredg> indeed :)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> I was maybe proposed a job in planning a pedagogical curriculum in russian orphanages, but that has nothing to do with open-source ;)
<raphink> lol
<dholbach> somebody should update hula to a new version...
<bojan> dholbach: the link is defect
<dholbach> bojan: which link?
<bojan> this one: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/hula
<dholbach> yeah, because it needs a new upstream vresion
<dholbach> version
<dholbach> i'm not sure debian has hula at all
<bojan> oh, i see
<Mithrandir>       hula | 0.1.0+svn379-2 |       testing | source, alpha, arm, hppa, i386, ia64, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc
<Mithrandir>       hula | 0.1.0+svn379-2 |      unstable | alpha, arm, hppa, i386, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390
<Mithrandir>       hula | 0.1.0+svn379-2.1 |      unstable | source, ia64, sparc
<dholbach> oh they do
<dholbach> and a hell lot more recent
<janimo> \sh, apache 2.2 is out for large file support on your 32 bit servers :)
<lucas> what are the chances that somebody review and upload motutools over the week-end ?
<lucas> I'm considering uploading it to debian so it will get to universe this way instead
<dholbach> lucas: i can only urge you to be patient - there are people waiting much longer than you
<dholbach> and everybody's quite busy
<dholbach> i'm well aware that this is not optimal
<ogra> and i doubt its a good idea to upload t to debian
<dholbach> but threatening doesn't help at any rate
<janimo> how will this bottleneck be handled in the future?
<lucas> I'm not threatening
<lucas> just try to find solutions
<dholbach> we can all just review more
<dholbach> that's all
<janimo> doesn't scale well
<dholbach> but we have to
<janimo> with current REVU
<dholbach> we have like 10 active motus
<dholbach> and we have like 20 new people who want to learn packaging
<ogra> it will if we are more ppl and have revu2
<dholbach> (apart from new packages from motu guys themselves)
<janimo> when if revu2 ETA?
<dholbach> reviewing takes time and must be done
<janimo> is
<raphink> dholbach: so there's a need for more MOTUs I guess
<dholbach> i think this is a social problem
<dholbach> raphink: definitely
<dholbach> raphink: and we will get them by doing more reviews
<ogra> there is a spce for dapper for revu2, so it must be done in dapper timeframe
<ogra> *spec
<raphink> dholbach: "vertuous circle"
<raphink> virtuous
<dholbach> vicious? :)
<raphink> no, the contrary
<raphink> ;)
<janimo> it's not just social it is technical as well
<raphink> since the more you review, the more MOTUs you get, and the more reviews you can achieve
<janimo> the web interface could be a lot better
<raphink> dholbach: who can apply for MOTU?
<lucas> raphink: ubuntu members
<janimo> I am criticizing but constructively I hope
<raphink> lucas: and how can I become an ubuntu member?
<lucas> by reading the wiki :)
<dholbach> janimo: i'd try to get more people reviewing first
<lucas> wait
<raphink> ok
<dholbach> i know that tools are more exciting
<raphink> yeah I read that parts
<dholbach> and writing tools
<lucas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto
<dholbach> but we have to do the actual work
<janimo> dholbach, the problem with REVu is that it is not too pleasant :)
<janimo> UI-wise
<lucas> dholbach: having a better infrastructure can make things faster
<raphink> lucas: do you think that is fine to be an Ubuntu member ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Raphink
<lucas> look at motu-tools' lpbugs.py
<lucas> it helps a lot
<lucas> raphink: I'm not in position to jugde, I'm not a member myself
<raphink> ok
<raphink> well then dholbach what do you think ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Raphink
* lucas will try to apply during the next CC meeting
<raphink> do you think I could apply, or should I wait more?
<raphink> lucas: on the 6th ? :)
<dredg> raphink: reads better than mine :)
<lucas> raphink: yup, but my problem is can't attend the meeting
<dredg> wiki/NiallSheridan
<raphink> dredg: so you think I can apply as member with this?
<dredg> yep
<raphink> :)
<kiko> libqalculate added
<dholbach> debian's hula is a bit older too :)
<siretart> YIPPPIEEE!
* siretart jumps happily around in his room!
<ogra> ??
<Kyral> Morning
<ogra> siretart, mind the neighbors :)
<siretart> ogra: finally, it works now!
<ogra> congrats ... to whatever
<ogra> :)
<siretart> ogra: I'm running now my X server (radeon) in MergedFB Mode with non-rectangular virtual desktop sizes
<siretart> without panning at all!
<siretart> this is soo great! :)
<Kyral> siretart:
<Kyral> what does that mean
<ogra> non-rectangular ?
<zakame> siretart: wow!!!
<ogra> so you have round ones now ? o_O
<siretart> ogra: this is basically this bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1956
<Ubugtu> xorg bug #1956: Allow non-rectangular virtual desktop with radeon MergedFB dual headed mode Product: xorg, Component: Driver/Radeon, Severity: enhancement, Assigned to: xorg-team@lists.x.org, Status: NEW https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1956
<siretart> ogra: my laptop internal screensize is 1024x768, and I have an external one with 1280x1024
<ogra> ah
<siretart> ogra: in breezy, I had to pan around, because it was made rectangular, say: 2304x1024
<siretart> and finally this works now. It is undocumented, though ;)
<ogra> cool
<ogra> (not the last bit though, but that it worrks)
<siretart> in a very delicate setup: xorg from breezy with xorg-server-driver-ati from dapper
<sladen> Ubugtu: with Merged FB you actually have one enormous framebuffer and happen to overlay both outputs over the same memory with different start-address and step-sizes.  You need to allocate as much memory as required for a recentangle that encompasses both displays
<siretart> sladen: Ubugtu is just a bot ;)
* Kyral yeas
<Kyral> 1 advocation for my EasyChem :D
<sladen> gah damnit, tell that to the luser who filed it...
<sladen> which, if I had X, I would do...
<siretart> sladen: err, that could be my, because I totally agree to the submitter
<siretart> sladen: the basic problem with this was, that in a setup with 2 heads of different sizes, the smaller one always had do pan around
<siretart> sladen: this is what the bug is about
<StevenK> Wheee. The debdiff for moin is 13Mb.
<tseng> oh wow
<zakame> whoa
* StevenK takes a look.
<sladen> did somebody leave a dump of wiki.ubuntu.com in there?
<StevenK> Heh
<ogra> tseng, me snoring must be an acoustic delusion :)
<Kyral> lol
<zakame> wb zyga
<zyga> zakame: hello, good day :-)
<StevenK> steven@broken:~/ubuntu% diffstat moin_merged.debdiff | tail -n 1 806 files changed, 317349 insertions(+), 310050 deletions(-)
<StevenK> Icky!
<bojan> see ya later
<dholbach> nice :)
<zakame> siretart: ping, seems linphone is buildable in ia64 now according to buildLogs
<siretart> zakame: close the bug, then
<zakame> ok
<\sh> grmpf
<siretart> \sh: doko: is this package missing a 'Replaces' on libvips10c2?
<siretart> \sh: doko: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5304
<\sh> looks like
<siretart> well, the debian maintainer uploaded it that way to debian.
<siretart> now I wonder if I should add the missing replaces or request a sync
<siretart> \sh: what do you think?
<\sh> siretart: check what's happening during installation of this package when you have the old ubuntu package installed
<\sh> siretart: it's not the first time, a DM didn't read the instructions...
<Kyral> I really have to learn how to use screen
<siretart> Kyral: screen is great :)
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> so I have heard :P
<Kyral> Then I wouldn't have to kill my Irssi sessions
<azeem> everytime you kill an irssi session, god kills a kitten
<azeem> so use screen!
<Kyral> isn't that everytime you.....
<Kyral> ;p
<Kyral> Fluxbox is great as well :D
<siretart> azeem: is there any howto somewhere how to use sbuild on amd64 to build i386 packages 'the right way'?
<siretart> azeem: I have now patched sbuild to accept an option --arch=i386, but I'm not sure if thats the right thing [tm] 
<Kyral> use a LiveCD on a x86 machine?
<Kyral> hmm, updates to Dapper knocked out sound and PCMCIA on my laptop
<ogra> Kyral, are you on -2.6.15-6 already ?
<janimo> Kyral, you're lucky
<Kyral> ogra I think
<ogra> that should solve both for most people
<Kyral> no my lappy isn't
<Kyral> my desktop IS
<Kyral> and I'm having the DMA problem described on -devel
<Kyral> on my desktop
<ogra> me too
<Kyral> Its slowing the hell out of my system
<Kyral> I don't like it lol
<ogra> ut sound and pcmcia work fine since this mornings update to -6
<ogra> *but
<Kyral> I haven't updated the lappy yet
<Kyral> school dropped a 58 kB/s limit on all connections
<azeem> siretart: hrm
<azeem> siretart: could well be that you are fishing in uncharted waters
<Kyral> so when I update and run IRC at the same time, IRC lags out like no one's business
<azeem> (do you actually say that?)
<Kyral> can someone explain udev to me..
<Kyral> I mean what makes it better than hotplug?
<ogra> nothing
<siretart> azeem: well, it works for me [tm] . But it is not that nice, though
<Kyral> so its the "Oh! New! Shiny!" factor? ;P
<azeem> siretart: I assume pbuilder is doing that fine?
<ogra> Kyral, before the functionallity was split between hotplug scripts and udev ...
<ogra> Kyral, now the hotplug part is integrated into udev
<Kyral> ah
<ogra> additionally udev gets started in the initramfs now ...
<Kyral> ah
<siretart> azeem: to be honest, I never tried in pbuilder myself, but I think I've read someone blogging this
<Kyral> so it SHOULD load faster
<ogra> so you get rid of the starting of two services after initramfs ...
<Kyral> I love how bootchart on the 2.6.12 kernel is broken for me
<Kyral> in the way that its broken
<azeem> siretart: I think this is a useful feature, even more so for DDs as they have to build i386 packages on their amd64 systems right now to get them accepted
<Kyral> lappy loads, you get the "Loading the Kernel..." msg
<Kyral> then "Segmentation Fault" as bootchart breaks
<Kyral> but it looks like the kernel segfaulted :P
<azeem> siretart: maybe one could just run dpkg-architecture in the chroot and see whether it differs
<siretart> azeem: well, the problem basically is, that the build succeeds, but in the end, sbuild is searching for *_amd64.debs, but only *_i386.debs have been created
<siretart> azeem: I added an option --arch, which sets $main::arch, (about 4lines patch).
<azeem> ok
<azeem> if you think it works fine, can you file a bug with that patch, please?
<siretart> azeem: I'm not sure if it is fine, but as said it works for me [tm] . Ok, I will file the patch
<xhaker> \sh, http://blog.philkern.de/archives/78-Serendipity-and-Planet-Planet-incompatibility.html
<Kyral> oh ogra, mind up I upload your key signed by me to the servers?
<azeem> Kyral: did you check his ID?
<\sh> xhaker: yes...read it :=
<Kyral> azeem: yes I know all about the process :P
<ogra> Kyral, yes .... please mail it to me, i can verify and upload it ...
<azeem> ok :)
<Kyral> command to generate an attachment is..(I forgot lol)
<ogra> Kyral, thats the common process ... dont upload other keys, leave it to the key owner ...
<xhaker> \sh, hows the search for a new job going?
<\sh> xhaker: yes...it begun :)
<Kyral> brb, reboot
<Kyral> yea! Sound and PCMCIA back :D
<minghua> good morning!
<xhaker> Kyral, how?
<Kyral> latest Dapper updates
<Kyral> 2.6.15-6
<xhaker> and you got sound :S
<Kyral> yah...
<xhaker> alsa starts?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> This thing uses the standard AC97 codec
<xhaker> whats the output of sudo invoke-rc.d alsa-utils restart ?
<Kyral> uh?
<xhaker> just do that for me please
<xhaker> it will restart alsa
<xhaker> no harm done
<Kyral> Shutting down ALSA... ...done
<Kyral> Setting up ALSA... ...done
<xhaker> bummer
<Kyral> huh?
<xhaker> wha happened before the updates? alsactl something no soundcards found?
<Kyral> no
<Kyral> couldn't find snd_default or something like that
<xhaker> ok
<Kyral> why?
<xhaker> then i guess my problem is not fixed yet
<xhaker> :P
<Kyral> lol
<xhaker> i only have OSS output
<Kyral> 2.6.15-6?
<xhaker> alsa doesnt start
<xhaker> yes
<Kyral> I didn't even have that :P
<Kyral> Soundcard wasn't found PERIOD
<xhaker> lets see
<xhaker> reboot
<Kyral> me?
<Kyral> I gotta get to class ;P
<xhaker> :(
<xhaker> xchat-gnome is slick
<xhaker> no spell check tho
<xhaker> :S
<pef> hello
<lamont__> ajmitch minghua: in ubuntu, i386 builds arch all, the others just build arch-specific.
<colinl> crimsun: ping about sylpheed-claws :)
<pef> in buildLogs, what does -given-back.gz suffix means ? technical server problem ? (like no free space)
<minghua> lamont__: thanks for the explanation
<lamont__> minghua: that is, on i386, sbuild gets passed --arch=all, which results in -b instead of -B to dpkg-buildpackage.
<lamont__> policy says that you must provide binary-{arch,indep}
<lamont__> likewise, reality says that the build-depends in control specifies everything needed by the 'build' target, since that's what dpkg-buildpackage uses
<Gloubiboulga> hi
<raphink> woo :)
<raphink> just made myself a hackergotchi :)
* eruin kicks hotplug
<minghua> lamont__: but as the same situation in Debian, packages that only build arch:all package(s) without binary-arch target won't fail on buildds, as only i386 buildd will pick it up, correct?
<xhaker> raphink: show
<raphink> xhaker: https://launchpad.net/people/raphink
<raphink> it's a bit rough on the edges
<xhaker> raphink: have you tried smart blur?
<raphink> I'm trying a manual blur
<raphink> I'm no gimp-guru
<raphink> it's a bit better now I think :)
<raphink> a bit of blur on the edges :)
<xhaker> nice!
<raphink> :)
<lamont__> minghua: well, um...
<lamont__> minghua: the way arch-all-building is done in wanna-build, everyone tries, and everyone except i386 fails, but we don't care.
<lamont__> once i386 succeeds, everyone forgets that the package exists at all
<lamont__> where 'everyone' is the collection of architectures
<minghua> lamont__: Ah, that's pretty sloppy :-)
<lamont__> minghua: and then on the log machine, if the failure is ": (amd64|hppa|ia64|powerpc|sparc) not in arch list: all -- skipping
<lamont__> ", then we discard the log completely
<lamont__> minghua: remember, launchpad is going to do all this for us, starting right after warty releases.
<Nafallo> s/warty/dapper/ ?
<lamont__> and doing it for real in wanna-build would have required major overhaul
<lamont__> Nafallo: no.
<minghua> lamont__: so debian policy is still enforced, and I'm justified to file bugs on packages without binary-arch target, correct?
<lamont__> minghua: if the package only delivers *_all.deb, I don't think anyone has ever much cared if dpkg-buildpackage -B failed.
<Nafallo> ehm. isn't warty released as 4.10 anymore?
<lamont__> Nafallo: yep. launchpad is maybe a little bit late.
<Nafallo> hehe, oki ;-)
<Nafallo> like a bit over a year or so :-)
<lamont__> it's also had a fair amount of feature-creep that has pushed it out
<minghua> lamont__: okay, I know people don't really care as long as the package builds...
<lamont__> minghua: the normal failure is that dpkg-genchanges has a fit because binary-arch didn't build anything
<lamont__> minghua: and note that dpkg either calls 'binary' or 'binary-arch' depending on -b or -B
<lamont__> at least, I'm pretty sure on that point
<lamont__>  /usr/bin/fakeroot debian/rules binary
<lamont__>  /usr/bin/fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch
<lamont__> yep
<Kyral> Anyone good with Wikicode?
<LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
<dholbach> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> dholbach: do you think malone bug #5142 could be changed to accepted? I was able to confirm it.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5142: Segment fault on xdrawchem In: xdrawchem (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Science, Status: NeedInfo https://launchpad.net/bugs/5142
<dholbach> accepted means you take care of it
<dholbach> of whoever is assigned to it
<LaserJock> well, I don't know what the problem is. It might take a change upstream or something like that. Is "accepted" ok in that case?
<Kyral> I only need one more vote for EasyChem, any MOTUs (aside from slomo) mind looking at it?
<dholbach> LaserJock: if you do
<minghua> LaserJock: you can reproduce the crash?
<LaserJock> minghua: yes
<LaserJock> unfotunately I am not enough of a programmer to know what is going on :(
<minghua> let's try to nail down this "MOTUScience's first bug" then :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: ok, sweet
<minghua> dholbach, LaserJock: I think "accepted" is premature, but what about removing "needinfo"?
<LaserJock> ok, I think that is good since the reporter did what dholbach requested, I think
<minghua> LaserJock: I would suggest you change the status back to "new", and add a comment saying you can reproduce it
<LaserJock> also, it looks like azeem is the Debian guy for xdrawchem so maybe we can get something from him.
<LaserJock> minghua: ok
<minghua> LaserJock: I'll look at it this weekend, but don't expect too much, as I'm not a programmer either...
<minghua> the gdb trace is not really useful though...
<LaserJock> minghua: np, I might bug azeem about it nex time I see him. I am going to try to reproduce it in debian
<LaserJock> siretart: ping?
<minghua> Argh, there is a much better backtrace in the comments, someone should change the bug description...
<siretart> LaserJock: pong
<minghua> LaserJock: by the way, you reproduced it in breezy, didn't you?
<LaserJock> minghua: think so, could have been dapper but I think it was breezy. I can't remember anymore ;-)
<minghua> LaserJock: I only have a dapper system, I'll try reproducing it in dapper first
<LaserJock> siretart: do you know if you can just put in the address for a ML in the contact address on LP?
<minghua> but not today, busy Friday now
<siretart> LaserJock: sure, why not?
<LaserJock> siretart: I was just uncertain if it worked that way. Thanks
<LaserJock> minghua: btw, you should sign up for our ML
<minghua> LaserJock: oh we have one?  :-P
* minghua goes to subscribe
<LaserJock> yeah, I sent out an email. It's at http://tauware.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-science
<\sh> re
<LaserJock> minghua: sweet, thanks
<xhaker> raphink:
<raphink> yes xhaker ?
<xhaker> made my hackergotchi :P https://launchpad.net/people/xhaker
<raphink> nice :)
<xhaker> old photo. big hair at that time :P
<rave_> hellow again :)
<rave_> how is every one doing today ?
<LaserJock> rave_: fine, how about yourself?
<rave_> fine fine :) just came back from a boat
<rave_> i installed a fire fighting system on it
<xhaker> dholbach: that's a python applet
<dholbach> xhaker: we need .orig.tar.gz, .dsc and .diff.gz to have a look
<dholbach> the .deb doesn't really help
<xhaker> i don't have neither
<xhaker> ok.. maybe i can make a tar.gz
<dholbach> how do you 'produce' the .deb?
<xhaker> dholbach: you really have to help me on this.. i know how to code but packaging is still kinda ****
<xhaker> dholbach: someone made the first package for us
<xhaker> and now i usually just replace it's contents with the new stuff
<dholbach> you have a debian/ dir
<dholbach> ?
<xhaker> i don't think so
<dholbach> oh
<dholbach> well, that's what you need
<dholbach> if you want me to package it, i can do that
<rave_> awww :)
<rave_> see these ppl arn called hero`s for nothing :)
<rave_> i love MOTU`s :)
<dholbach> :)
<xhaker> can you teach me after or something, maybe just the basic  "how do you 'produce' the .deb"
<dholbach> become a MOTU today! get fan mail! parties all day! ...! :)
<rave_> :D
<LaserJock> sounds like it's time for #ubuntu-motu-school ;-)
<xhaker> i was at the first lesson haha :P
<dholbach> xhaker: we can do that... but it's a longer way than you might think
<dholbach> it's not just half an hour of "stuff" :)
<rave_> MOTU for life :p
<xhaker> dholbach: i have some debian something packaging book
<LaserJock> dholbach: are you kidding, there is checkinstall. just kidding
<rave_> ebook you mean ?
<rave_> ooh
<LaserJock> xhaker: are you on dapper?
<xhaker> i am
<dholbach> xhaker: i suggest you have a look at similar packages first
<rave_> im writing e ebook maybe for MOTU ... patching how to :))
<dholbach> and inspect the debian/ dir
<LaserJock> in the gnome help there is a packaging guide. I don't know if that is what you are talking about
<xhaker> wifi-radar maybe :)
<rave_> yes thats a good diea
<rave_> sudo apt-get source wifi-radar
<xhaker> yes
<dholbach> don#t need no sudo
<rave_> dpkg-source -x wifi-radar*.dsc
<dholbach> but that's fine, yes
<rave_> cd *
<rave_> cd debian
<dholbach> devscripts is a helpful package
<rave_> and behold the miracle :p
<Kyral> debhelper I like :D
<rave_> pico i like
<rave_> i did all by hand for my ftpd
<Kyral> Though I am really eager to attend ajmitch__'s class on making packages without any script help
<rave_> so its missing a lot
<rave_> 10 december right ?
<xhaker> so dholbach please check that deb.. to see if there's something bad about it and i'll learn some new stuff
<dholbach> the .deb is no good for reviewing
<dholbach> really not
<dholbach> if i have a source and a debian/ dir, that helps
<dholbach> i daresay you have to learn it this way
<dholbach> a random .deb doesnt help, sorry
<xhaker> dholbach: i meant the dependencies and whatnot
<xhaker> nvm
<dholbach> that makes no sense
<dholbach> the debian/ dir specifies, how the package is built
<dholbach> and that's what's important
<xhaker> i'm trying to do you
<dholbach> you could use dh_make to add example debian/ dir to your project
<xhaker> get back to you later
<dholbach> ok, sure
<dholbach> i'm happy to look at things you achieved then
<dholbach> cool
<rave_> jeej found a funny bug to fix :)
<Kyral> This is odd
<Kyral> I seems to have received two of every msg to the lists
<rave_> what list ?
<Kyral> Ubuntu-Doc, Ubuntu-Devel...
<rave_> hmm
<rave_> using thunderbird ?
<Kyral> Evolution
<rave_> hmm
<rave_> i had this with thunderbird
<rave_> because
<xhaker> dholbach: i don't think i need a diff.gz
<rave_> i emailed the bug reported for comments
<dholbach> you don't
<dholbach> but it's nicer
<rave_> and also mailed the launchpad bug page
<Gloubiboulga> what status should be assigned to a to-be-synced package ?
<rave_> uhhmmm hold on
<minghua> Gloubiboulga: pendingupload
<rave_> ye
<minghua> Gloubiboulga: I assume you are not a MOTU
<Gloubiboulga> thanks
<Gloubiboulga> no minghua
<Gloubiboulga> maybe some day... ;)
<minghua> Gloubiboulga: then pendingupload it is.  find some MOTU to review your bug and request the sync for you
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<dholbach> good night motus
<rave_> jack-dev 1.0 is in dapper right ?
<xhaker> dholbach:
<xhaker> what's the commandline option for diff
<rave_> debdiff
<rave_> or diff
<xhaker> between two dirs?
<xhaker> the option man
<xhaker> diff -uir ?
<rave_> sorry for answering a question not asked to me
<rave_> ow to dirs :|
<rave_> i dont know
<dholbach> -ruN
<xhaker> thanks dholbach
<slomo> i use -Naur ;)
<xhaker> a?
<xhaker> any reason?
<slomo> don't know anymore... i had a reason the first time i used diff and now i'm used to type -Naur ;)
<slomo>  -a  --text
<slomo>               Treat all files as text.
<Kyral> slomo!
<slomo> Kyral!
<slomo> ;)
<Kyral> ty for the vote :D
<slomo> np :)
<rave_> xwb
<rave_> *wb
<Kyral> ty
<bojan> hi!
<rave_> hi here as well bojan :)
<raphink> SloMo could you review some packages of mine?
<slomo> sure... give me the url to the most important one :)
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> well there are 10 of them, to your choice ;)
<raphink> some have already been reviewed by Riddell
<raphink> even advocated
<raphink> my packages are signed by raphink@raphink.net
<raphink> ;)
<slomo> just give me the most important :P
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> I guess kalcul + libeduwidgetclock0
<raphink> they go together
<raphink> :)
<slomo> kde stuff... hmm
<slomo> i can review them but i don't know anything about kde specifics
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> well then
<raphink> kubuntu-grub-splashimages
<slomo> we need more kde motus ;)
<raphink> it's kubuntu related but not kde stuff
<raphink> SloMo that's why I here ;)
<raphink> hopefuly if I improve my skills I can become and MOTU and meet this need ;)
<slomo> would be nice :)
<azeem> minghua: confirmed
<azeem> minghua: it doesn't happen for the version in dapper, though, but that hasn't been built for i386 yet it seems
<slomo> raphink: just let me finish one merge before... then i'll look at the splashimages package
<raphink> ok thanks slomo
<rave_> dholbach changed are needed on MOTUGettingIntoIt i think
<rave_> *changes
<rave_> would not be a need for new motu`s to join the motu mailing ?
<azeem> transient buildd failure it seems
<rave_> :O ow noo
<LaserJock> azeem: xdrawchem?
<azeem> yes
<azeem> hrm
<LaserJock> what's the situation in Debian?
<azeem> I just tried in my unstable chroot, and that segfault doesn't happen there
<azeem> it built fine on amd64 and powerpc anyway, so I guess it just needs a retry
<xhaker> should i make the section of a package.. universe/... ?
<LaserJock> azeem: so it's a Ubuntu thing, or is it fixed in the dapper version?
<azeem> well, I assume it is fixed, but I don't run dapper and the i386 binary is not available yet, anyway
<azeem> but I am sure there are more segfaults :)
<LaserJock> pity, I like xdrawchem :(
<azeem> oh, well I don't use it much myself
<LaserJock> I haven't much. I do more ghemical work ;-)
<azeem> if you use it and don't have much problems, I retract that statement and say: "let's hope there are no other segfaults"
<LaserJock> azeem: I haven't used it in Ubuntu. I used to use it in my Gentoo days
<azeem> ah
<LaserJock> right now I can't install it on dapper because of libopenbabel
<azeem> yeah, it needs a rebuild
<minghua> azeem: you are the Debian maintainer, right?
<azeem> co-maintainer, yes
<azeem> though I'm doing all the work, the other guy is MIA
<minghua> azeem: I'll rebuild it in dapper, and see if the crash is reproducible or not
<minghua> azeem: does the current i386 version (the breezy one, actually) run on dapper?
<azeem> I don't know, I don't run dapper
<minghua> I'll test that first, then
<LaserJock> I am rebuilding it in a dapper pbuilder right now
<azeem> 1.9.8-2?
<LaserJock> yep, dapper's
<azeem> cool, thanks
<rave_> hows dapper guys ?
<minghua> azeem: if you want to know the status of this bug, subscribe to it (malone bug #5142), I won't cc: reports to you then
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5142: Segment fault on xdrawchem In: xdrawchem (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Science, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5142
<LaserJock> from http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xdrawchem/1.9.8-2/ it looks like libopenbable-dev was the problem
* minghua pats Ubugtu: nice bot :-)
<azeem> LaserJock: yeah, but the last ones look like buildd borkage, dunno
<LaserJock> azeem: better yet subscribe to the ubuntu-science list at http://tauware.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-science
<minghua> LaserJock: that's perhaps asking for too much :-)
<azeem> LaserJock: done
<LaserJock> minghua: well, he needs to be a MOTU and on the MOTUScience team anyway ;-)
<xhaker> hey
<xhaker> can someone help me?
<LaserJock> azeem: I think it is ok now, the problem in the build log was "libopenbabel-dev(inst 1.100.2-2ubuntu1 ! >= wanted 1.100.2-3)"
<minghua> LaserJock: sure, if he agrees, I have no objection :-)
<sivang> xhaker: hmm, I've worked some bits with ubuntu gnome packages - what are you trying to do?
<sivang> xhaker: is your package "gnomish" as in uses autoconf etc?
<LaserJock> hmm, looks like libopenbabel0c2a can't be installed because of libqt3-mt
<azeem> it should not depend on that
<\sh> it depends on it :(
<\sh> but libqt3-mt should be installable..
<\sh> or someone fcked it up
<LaserJock> it's not in my chroot
<azeem> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/libs/libopenbabel0c2a only shows libc6, libgcc1 and libstdc++6
<\sh> una momenta
<\sh> pleqase
<\sh> updating chroot
<\sh> libqt3-mt is installable
<LaserJock> ok, I must have been doing something wrong. I install xdrawchem now.
<\sh> if libopenbabel0c2a is not installable...strange..I think I was it who transitioned it
<\sh> oh no slomo was it :)
<LaserJock> \sh: it is, actually you need to disregard everything I have said :-)
<crimsun> hot potato!
<slomo> \sh: no, i never saw this package ;)
<slomo> \sh: are you sure?
<LaserJock> I was being stupid because I was installing xdrawchem with dpkg -i
<\sh> SloMo: no..it was sistpoty...I always mix your names :)
<slomo> \sh: elmo did it once too ;) he synced a package for sistpoty in my name
<\sh> hehe
<LaserJock> ok, everything is ok with xdrawchem. Bug fixed for dapper when libopenbabel0c2a is in.
<\sh> sistpoty, slomo, siretart, \sh
<\sh> to many S
<azeem> the others should use funky special chars as well
<\sh> well...the good thing, there will never be a |sh
<\sh> or they fixed this long time bug :)
<LaserJock> how often are builds that have failed retryed? Is it automatic?
<\sh> LaserJock: 2 or 3 times..after that buildd admins has to give it back manually...at least that is what I imagine
<minghua> LaserJock: that sounds a quick fix :-)
<LaserJock> \sh: so does somebody need to be pinged then?
<LaserJock> minghua: that is one of the beauties of having upstream ;-)
<\sh> LaserJock: normally infinity or lamont are giving back the world during the week...
<\sh> or ask them directly if you need it very badly :)
<azeem> it has already been retried more than a dozen of times, so I guess it will again
<azeem> even more so as the amd64, powerpc and ia64 .debs are there
<LaserJock> I thought the might have given up after some time
<LaserJock> *they
<azeem> well, let's assume that lamont reads the logs and sees the spurious failure and gives it back
<LaserJock> azeem: what does "gives it back" mean exactly?
<azeem> tell wanna-build/buildd to try it again at the next opportunity
<LaserJock> ah, ok
<LaserJock> so should I change the bug report to PendingUpload with a comment that it is fixed in dapper?
<azeem> I don't know what the procedure is for a working source, but missing binary .debs
<LaserJock> well if it had working .debs I would mark it Fixed I think, so PendingUpload would indicate that the fix is coming soon ;-)
<azeem> well, if you upload a new package with a changelog entry saying this-or-that bug got fixed, does the bug get fixed/closed as soon as the source package enters the archive, or just when all the builds are available?
<azeem> I would assume the former, but I do not know
<crimsun> azeem: actually they're not linked up at all yet
<xhaker> Checksum doesn't match for /home/xhaker/gtkwifi-build/gtkwifi_1.09-1.dsc
<xhaker> what does this mean?
<crimsun> I do miss that from BTS
<azeem> oh
<xhaker> it was uploaded or dismissed?
<xhaker> siretart:
<xhaker> siretart: need help with revu
<rave_> there is the man
<xhaker> ogra..do you know anything about uploading to revu? LOL
<xhaker> i've uploaded, it returned a checksum error.. now i can't upload again :s
<rave_> Johnny cash is on my mp3 player :)
<rave_> jeeej
<raphink> can you paste the output to a pastebin xhaker ?
<xhaker> any anonymous pastebin you know?
<xhaker> url
<raphink> http://pastebin.com
<raphink> :p
<raphink> unless you prefer ubuntu.pastebin.com or kubuntu.pastebin.com
<raphink> or ubuntu.pastebin.nl ;)
<raphink> or whatever will do
<rave_> guys
<markuman> or http://paste.ubuntuusers.de/
<rave_> i dont a bug in gnome
<rave_> + xchat
* rave_ go`s running to malone
<raphink> what does that sentences mean rave_ ?
<xhaker> http://pastebin.com/446622
<xhaker> raphink: http://pastebin.com/446622
<xhaker> this is what i get now
<xhaker> i found my way pretty quickly to dcut
<xhaker> and issued a simulation
<rave_> raphink that there is a bug in gnome 2.12.1 + xchat 2.4.4
<Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Gnome Bugzilla bug #2: NotFound
<\sh> xhaker: that your md5sums of diff.gz or .orig.tar.gz is not correct
<raphink> bug #1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share In: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<raphink> bug 1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share In: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<raphink> :D
<xhaker> raphink: http://pastebin.com/446624
<xhaker> \sh:
<Kyral> okay I <3 Piuparts
<xhaker> should i issue this without the -s (simulation) thing? http://pastebin.com/446624
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> I usually only run dput on the *_source.changes
<\sh> xhaker: hum?
<Kyral> which is what you are supposed to do
<\sh> xhaker: what are you uploading there?
<raphink> yeah
<\sh> .command?
<raphink> xhaker: you should just run `dput gtkwifi_1.09-1_source.changes'
<raphink> nothing more complicate than this
<xhaker> raphink:
<xhaker> i did that
<raphink> xhaker@dpr:~/gtkwifi-build$ dput *.changes -f
<xhaker> but my .dsc had bad checksums
<raphink> that's not exactly the same
<raphink> well then run a `debuild -S -sa' again
<raphink> if the .dsc had a bad sum, it will be regenerated again and it should be fine
<xhaker> thats what i'm trying to say.. I run it again.. but revu wont' let me upload..
<Kyral> dput -f
<xhaker> and the checksums are alright now
<xhaker> Kyral: tried that already
<Kyral> oh
<xhaker> so i found dcut
<xhaker> i guess i'm gonna try it
<raphink> SloMo did you have the time to look at the splashimages ?
* Kyral plays with piuparts
* raphink has a big headache :(
<slomo> raphink: later
<raphink> ok sure
<\sh> xhaker: rebuild it :)
<Kyral> lol slomo
<Kyral> I tested cowbell in piuparts
<Kyral> it failed the tests :P
<slomo> what tests?
<raphink> it's just a bit frustrating because I have about 10 packages waiting in REVU and I think some are ready and just need one more advocating and I see them waiting them for days ;)
<slomo> raphink: don't worry, i'll review it later :)
<raphink> ok
<Kyral> Install test, upgrade test, purge test
<Kyral> it failed the purge test
<slomo> Kyral: why?
<Kyral> something about binfmts
<slomo> ok, not a cowbell problem the probably ;) i'll test it later myself
<xhaker> \sh:
<\sh> xhaker: ?
<xhaker> debuild -S -sa is supposed to generate a tar.gz ?
<\sh> xhaker: is to generate a source upload yes..
<\sh> xhaker: tar.gz is only generated for native packages
<\sh> xhaker: which we do not want in the first place
<xhaker> so.. mine is a tar.gz
<xhaker> is that fine?
<\sh> xhaker: native package?
<Kyral> run it through lintian
<xhaker> nvm.. noticed it has the debian/ dir inside and serves it's purpose
<xhaker> :P
<xhaker> it's python
<xhaker> ;)
<Kyral> then make it Build-Depends-Indep
<xhaker> Kyral: me?
<Kyral> and move everything in rules from binary-arch to binary-indep
<Kyral> I think thats right
<Kyral> for a Python package?
<azeem> there a python packages with C modules
<Kyral> good point
<Kyral> I almost forgot about the Boost Libs
<xhaker> Kyral: i did like i saw on wifi-radar package
<xhaker> so :P
<Kyral> what is Wifi-Radar written in?
<xhaker> ivoks did it in binary-arch
<xhaker> python
<Kyral> ah
* Kyral shrugs
<slomo> siretart: mplayer is finished... builds and works fine on x86, amd64 and ppc... it's on revu, please test it :) the only thing needed now is forcing usuage of all optimizations on x86 (currently it compiles in only what the build machine can do, broken configure :( )
<Kyral> The way I understand it is that if its interpreted (like Java, Perl, Python) then its Indep
<slomo> Kyral: only when it contains only "interpreted" stuff
<Kyral> ah
* Kyral hopes he can get another vote before Tuesday
<slomo> why tuesday?
<Kyral> CC Meeting
<slomo> oh... hmm
<Kyral> oh and it passed all Piuparts tests :P
* rave_ is writing a motu mailing item ...
* Kyral is....going to eat
<Kyral> CYA!
<rave_> have a nice meal
<Kyral> Its campus food...
<Kyral> what do you think ;P
<rave_> eww
<Kyral> Actually first I'm gonna checkout my latest bootchart
* rave_ gives Kyral something nice to eat
<Kyral> hmm, intersting
<Kyral> udev cut 3 seconds off my time
<Kyral> Oh are we still uploading Bootcharts?
<slomo> rajasun: in control... remove the universe/ from section
<slomo> raphink: ^--- see above ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> well I saw that on other packages
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> so it's just admin
<slomo> raphink: which packages? it's moved to universe per default ;) only for multiverse elmo wants multiverse/ as a prefix for the first upload
<slomo> yes
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> ok uploading again
<slomo> in description... the , seems to be unnecessary
<raphink> hmm ok
<slomo> otherwise it is fine :) but i can't test it here, grub doesn't work on ppc ;)
<raphink> oh you're on ppcc
<raphink> ppc
<raphink> well some people tested it and it worked fine
<raphink> I did test it too of course ;)
<raphink> I had to modify the postinst script once
<raphink> because the splashimage line has to be in the beginning of the menu.lst file
<raphink> or rather before the OS entries
<raphink> I guess you can't advocate if you can't test though :(
<slomo> well, the packaging is ok, the scripts too... and it's fairly small... so yes, you'll get my vote :)
<slomo> but the next one better test it ;)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> just wait a minute or two
<kjcole> Any DocTeam members here?  Fridge says DocTeam Meeting NOW (as in 20 min ago).
<raphink> I uploaded again, without the `,' in description
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> slomo : ok it's uploaded now so you can advocate if you feel like it ;)
<slomo> done
<raphink> thanks :)
<rave_> did you guys got my MOTU mailing already ???
<rave_> <-- Johnny Mast
<rave_> i did not yet
<slomo> i got it
<rave_> ok thanks
<xhaker> i need siretart
<rave_> ow darn, i typo`ed a few times lol
<rave_> JanC welcome back
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-08
<\sh> tseng: dude, u were involved in this gentoo hardened project?
<tseng> yes
* Kyral shudders at the mention of Gentoo
* tseng shudders at the mention of Kyral
<tseng> anyways
<Kyral> touche
<\sh> Kyral: there is nothing wrong with Gentoo...
<tseng> gentoo hardened was a ground breaking project
<Kyral> Yah I know. I just had a bad experiance with it
<tseng> whether you like the lamers who use the distro or not
<\sh> tseng: yeah...someone in the german dev channel mentioned it yesterday..and was missing you...when I told him your name (just guessing) he said "What, Brandon is now at Ubuntu?"
<tseng> hm pappy?
<\sh> tseng: na...pappy is obsolete :)
<tseng> haha
<tseng> he is brainfragged
<rave_> tseng r u on the motu maling ?
<\sh> tseng: CoC :)
<tseng> rave_: maling?
<rave_> mailing list
<tseng> i wasnt aware there was one
<\sh> damn...40th cigarette for today
<tseng> the motu mailing list has been shot down a few times
<LaserJock> it's going now
<\sh> tseng: now this ML is R E A L I T Y
<tseng> then no :)
<tseng> I'm not
<rave_> i didnt get my mailing yet
<tseng> the list server backs up sometimes
<Kyral> oh I have a question from one of my friends. He wants to know where we got the 2.6.15-6 kernel when it isn't out on Kernel.org
<rave_> did any one ?? about my logo page off motu ?
<tseng> Kyral: its from GIT
<tseng> Kyral: and various other patches
<Kyral> Thats what I thought and told him
<tseng> cool
<LaserJock> Kyral: it is on kernel.org
<\sh> rave_: i received it
<rave_> \sh okey maybe its because i resendly changed from digist to life
<rave_> because i didnt get my own mailing yet
<\sh> it's there.. do not worry
<rave_> okey ty
<\sh> mailman never lose mails *ugh*
<rave_> but what should we do with the MOTUlogo page ?
<tseng> \sh: i cant think of any other germans but pappy
<rave_> when and who will deside about a logo ?
<tseng> but my memory is bad
<\sh> tseng: kugelfang
<tseng> hm yes
<\sh> ian
<\sh> beejay
<tseng> tell them hi :)
<tseng> esp beejay
<rave_> neeh
<\sh> tseng: oh...beejay goes the way of pappy sometimes ;-)
<tseng> have you met him?
<rave_> ogra or dholbach wll i think
<tseng> http://www.gentoo.org/images/gwn/20040816_beejay.jpg
<tseng> you cant miss him
<rave_> Bjay
<\sh> tseng: no...I just avoided to meet the gentoo guys...even when I'm member of their association..but tomorrow i'll meet ian, dertobi123
<sistpoty> hi folks
<\sh> tseng: for sure..too many quarter pounder :)
<LaserJock> tseng: so do you still run Gentoo?
<tseng> LaserJock: no.
<rave_> thank god :)
<rave_> good you used ur mind :)
<LaserJock> tseng: anything other than Ubuntu? just curious
<tseng> LaserJock: erm, to enumerate
<LaserJock> rave_: I really like Gentoo. It's a lot of fun
<tseng> fedora, redhat 8, 9, various Enterprise
<tseng> debian
<\sh> slackware to mention
<rave_> LaserJock nope man
<LaserJock> tseng: are you the tseng on fedoraforums?
<rave_> LaserJock debian and ubuntu rule my servers :)
<rave_> apr-get myupdates
<tseng> LaserJock: i hope not, i avoid forums like the plague :)
<rave_> *apr-get install myupdates
<\sh> hehehe...
<LaserJock> tseng: I don't blame you ;-)
<LaserJock> I think I might have installed Debian once, a long time ago. For me, if it's either Gentoo or Ubuntu. But that's just me so I will shut up now.
<Kyral> Slack into Gentoo into Ubuntu
<sistpoty> I have windows installed
* sistpoty ducks
* Kyral hurls a penguin at sistpoty
<LaserJock> sistpoty: that's ok. I have only Windows at home :(
<tseng> i have windows installed too
<tseng> no holy wars here these days
<sistpoty> no, and I even don't think win is all bad... (apart from that it costs money)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: yeah, I would run it more if they paid me *g*
<sistpoty> hehe... I wouldn't say it's the best os or something, just that it ain't all bad ;)
<xhaker> hey
<xhaker> i'm having trouble here
<rave_> :|
<xhaker> my orig.tar.gz has a directory.. lets call it "blah"
<xhaker> i used in my rules file
<xhaker> dh_install black /
<xhaker> blah /
<xhaker> keeps telling me "blah" does not exist
<sistpoty> xhaker: so your extracted source-package would have /blah?
<xhaker> sistpoty, orig.tar.gz has /blah
<sistpoty> xhaker: usually dh_install blah should install /blah to debian/tmp/blah/
<sistpoty> xhaker: you could try to extract your sourcepackage and test the steps manually
<sistpoty> xhaker: like calling debian/rules install
<xhaker> sistpoty, i'm doing dh_make file.tar.gz , i'm not supposed to extract first am i?
<sistpoty> xhaker: depends on what you want to do... but I don't think dh_make to a tarball will do any good
<sistpoty> xhaker: if you want to debianize a package, you should extract the tarball, and call dh_make inside the extracted tarball
<xhaker> sistpoty, that was it
<xhaker> lol
<xhaker> who is going to give me some love http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1063
<raphink> xhaker: in my email, don't take in consideration the stuff about postinst and prerm, this is fine ;)
<xhaker> mail ?
<xhaker> oh
<raphink> I sent you an email xhaker
<xhaker> received it
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> sistpoty: if I review packages and send email to packagers, should I forward a copy of the emails to a MOTU?
<xhaker> oh raphink i've already reuploaded
<sistpoty> raphink: that would be very good... maybe you could even use motu-reviewer ml for that
<xhaker> with that orig.tar.gz fixed
<raphink> yes I saw that xhaker
<raphink> you can still look at the other points
<raphink> sistpoty: I'll try to apply for membership soon enough, too
<sistpoty> :)
<raphink> sistpoty: do you think my contributions are big enough so far ?
<raphink> (just wanting to have the opinion of several before going for it ;))
<sistpoty> raphink: do you mean membership or motu?
<raphink> well membership first ;)
<sistpoty> raphink: for membership you've done more than enough imo...
<raphink> I have to be a member before I get to be a motu
<rave_> raphink me 2
<sistpoty> raphink: yep
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> then maybe I could apply on the 6th?
<rave_> raphink seen you on the 6th :)
<rave_> lol
<rave_> *see
<sistpoty> xhaker: that gives me creeps: sudoers_file.write('ALL     ALL=(root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/gtkwifi-settings-client\n')
<raphink> rave_: what do you mean seen me?
<raphink> haha ok
<rave_> we will be side by side
<rave_> i did go tough it before
<rave_> dont wurry
<raphink> the 6th is a tuesday...
<raphink> at what time is the meeting?
<rave_> just relax chill and wave and smile boys :)
<xhaker> sistpoty, it shouldn't it's harmless.. it's an interface to ifconfig and iwconfig
<rave_> 14:00
<raphink> 14:00 UTC
<rave_> american time
<rave_> i thing
<rave_> *think
<rave_> i took my day off
<sistpoty> xhaker: fiddling with a file not in your package is never harmless. don't do it. apart from that fiddling with sudoers is not at all harmless
<rave_> not only because of the council
<raphink> i guess that's 15:00 french time
<sistpoty> xhaker: what if s.o. has modified sudoers?
<rave_> but when i was in i wanted to drink :D
<rave_> raphink whats ur wiki
<xhaker> s.o ?
<rave_> i know from before
<Nafallo> someone
<rave_> what they dont like
<rave_> so i can preview you
<raphink> rave_: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaphaelPinson
<rave_> you preview me https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnnyMast
<rave_> im also 23 !! lol
<raphink> nice :)=
<raphink> :)
<rave_> i like ur package list
<xhaker> raphink, what do you mean with that gpl thingie?
<xhaker> i already include the short version
<xhaker> i think
<xhaker> +You are free to distribute this software under the terms of
<xhaker> +the GNU General Public License.
<xhaker> +On Debian systems, the complete text of the GNU General Public
<xhaker> +License can be found in the file `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL'.
<xhaker> right?
<sistpoty> xhaker: that's not enough
<sistpoty> xhaker: read the GPL ;) (you'll find a hint at the bottom, which lines you should include)
<rave_> raphink what do you think of mine ?
<xhaker> should it be the 22 lines version?
<raphink> xhaker: http://pastebin.com/446831
<raphink> that's what I usually put
<sistpoty> raphink: that's the exact thing ;)
<raphink> your page is impressive rave_
<rave_> thanks
<raphink> sistpoty: I just cp the copyright and rules from other packages and adapt them each time
<rave_> ile hope i make it
<raphink> and the ones from dh_make are not good
<rave_> because you have a high change of making it
<sistpoty> raphink: no, they aren't... s.o. should fix dh_make
<raphink> sistpoty: I should fix just my dh_make or dh_make should be fixed for Ubuntu ? ;)
<sistpoty> raphink: actually upstream should fix it :)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> that's what I understood
<raphink> but then why not make patches on the dh_make package so it generates the right files ?
<raphink> it also generates control with debhelper 4.0 instead of 4.1
<xhaker> raphink, thanks for the help.. changed it accordingly
<raphink> ok good
<raphink> I'll review it again when you uploda
<raphink> upload
<rave_> LaserJock <-- its back
<rave_> :)
<rave_> raphink do you like reverce engenerring ??
<rave_> im thinking abourt starting a reverce egeneering team
<raphink> I don't do reverse engineering rave_
<raphink> but it's nice
<rave_> because i want to add to add support to ubuntu for the sony network mp3 hdd
<raphink> nice
<raphink> nothing exists yet?
<rave_> so after ipod unbuntu will have support for a major player
<rave_> nope its all win32
<raphink> ok
<rave_> its called
<rave_> hmm sonic mp3
<rave_> or sonic studio
<rave_> something with soney
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I wouldn't support sony stuff
<raphink> with they way they behave lately
<rave_> they usded it on MD`s as well
<rave_> so if we could crack it
<rave_> LOL
<rave_> no it has nothing todo with there cd`s
<raphink> we work on OSS, not crackes soft
<xhaker> raphink, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1064
<rave_> its there mp3 players and mini disc players
<raphink> ;)
<rave_> they use sonic stage songs
<raphink> yes xhaker wait I'm on the phone
<rave_> wich ubuntu nor any other linux supports
<rave_> if we do
<rave_> we can change the display of even the sony walkmans
<rave_> saying
<rave_> playlist created on ubuntu !
<rave_> :)
<raphink> loool
<rave_> i stated already
<rave_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnnyMast/snwhd-1
<rave_> just for a few lines
<rave_> im thinking about foundng MOTUreverce
<rave_> since so many protocols
<raphink> reverse then
<rave_> so many potential`s
<rave_> yeah im working on it :)
<rave_> but i still dont know
<raphink> good
<rave_> how to display a code box on the wiki
<rave_> so my code paste seems messed up
<rave_> go ppl ??
<rave_> *so
<raphink> xhaker: how do you expect your program to install in the system?
<rave_> hmm
<rave_> {{{
<rave_> text
<rave_> }}}
<xhaker> you tried installing and want to know how to use it?
<raphink> xhaker: not that's not what I mean
<raphink> xhaker: your file contains no configure and Makefile
<raphink> so obviously it's not gonna be compiled
<raphink> and installed this way
<raphink> so then
<raphink> how do you expect your package to install?
<raphink> xhaker: do you have some time right now?
<xhaker> it just copies the files since the files needed are two python apps, some png's and a bonobo server file
<xhaker> so
<xhaker> two files go in /usr/bin
<raphink> xhaker: do you have some time so we can have a private talk to review your package together?
<xhaker> i do
<xhaker> atleast i think i do :P
<xhaker> pvt
<raphink> sure
<sistpoty> dholbach! libsexy? *g*
<xhaker> sistpoty, i asked him to package it
<sistpoty> hehe, I was just curious bout the name ;)
<xhaker> provides some gtk controls :P
<xhaker> ip entry, spellcheck editbox, blah blah :P
<Nafallo> could we have tiber use UTC as it's timezone? :-)
<Kyral> Why does making an ext3 fs on my 160 GB HD take 5 GB?
<sistpoty> Nafallo: as long as I don't need to reconfigure tiber, I don't mind ;)
<Nafallo> sistpoty: that's what I was talking about :-).
<Nafallo> the machine uses some timezone in america atm :-P
* Nafallo changed the LoCoserver to UTC today ;-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: afaik it's located there... but you could write a support request mail to admin@tiber... there are enough people with root rights who have more clue than me ;)
<Nafallo> oki :-)
<StevenK> tzconfig && date && hwclock -w && logout
<StevenK> So there. :-)
<Nafallo> send :-)
<Nafallo> sent even
* Kyral wonders how he can maximize usable space on his 160 GB HD
<LaserJock> Kyral: you can adjust the amount of space take up when you create a partition in the installer
<Kyral> I set it to full
<Kyral> then I apply ext3 somehow I lose like 6 GB
<LaserJock> Kyral: like how much is set aside for whatever it does (I can't remember). It is normally set at 5%. I set it to 1% but I don't know if that is right
<Kyral> Thats more like it
<Nafallo> the amount reserved for root
<Kyral> only lose 2 GB
<Nafallo> and then the journal takes a bit...
<Kyral> Thing is...this is just a storage drive
<LaserJock> Nafallo: right, I read somewhere that 5% is probably too much
<Kyral> so do I really need that much reserved for root?
<Nafallo> who knows :-)
<LaserJock> I set it to 1% and I haven't had any negative effects, yet ;-)
<Kyral> I wanna drop it to .5
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't know if you can do that
<StevenK> Kyral: tune2fs -m 1
<LaserJock> it might just be integer values
<Kyral> StevenK: I just made it that small :P
<StevenK> You can try -m 0.5
<Kyral> also tacked on -O sparse_super
<Nafallo> StevenK: oh! I can actually use tune2fs for that? nice! :-)
<Kyral> and -T largefile4
<Kyral> but what is that space used for?
<StevenK> Nafallo: tune2fs can do lots and lots of nice things.
<Nafallo> Kyral: what is a largefile then? :-)
<Nafallo> looks like it :-)
<StevenK> Kyral: Nothing. Until the filesystem fills up according to users, and not for root, who can then clean it up.
<Kyral> largefile4 ....
<Kyral> whoops
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> StevenK: so if I monitor the disk I shouldn't need much
<StevenK> largefile4  one inode per 4 megabytes
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> its storing anime episodes loil
<Kyral> and those range in the 200 MB range
<Kyral> So I should be fine with -m .5?
<StevenK> Number of inodes is not an issue.
<Kyral> Oh BTW
<StevenK> I have a 430Gb media LVM, with 5 million inodes. It's only using 5000 of them.
<Kyral> you can do -m .5 :P
<LaserJock> cool
<Kyral> if my calculations are right then I should have about 700 MB reserved for root
<Kyral> which should be more than enough to get in there
<Kyral> Now to transfer all the anime back...oy
<Kyral> Wanna know something wierd?
<Kyral> I had a ReiserFS on this thign at first
<Kyral> well, first a FAT32
<Kyral> then a Reiser
<Kyral> then an ext3
<Kyral> somehow it still had its Reiser Journal
<Kyral> while it had an ext3 FS
<Kyral> it was mounted as ext3, and the system didn't care that a Reiser journal also happened to be there
<zakame> morning all :)
<zakame> siretart: just read your inputs, many thanks, you're my hero :)
<sistpoty> hi zakame
<zakame> hello sistpoty :)
<raphink> morning
<raphink> I'm going to bed :)
<sistpoty> gn8 raphink
<raphink> sistpoty: there's the postinst/postrm issues to look at with xhaker ;)
<zakame> gn8 rajasun
<raphink> I didn't see that with him
<zakame> er, raphink I mean ;)
<raphink> thanks zakame & sistpoty
<raphink> bubby
<xhaker> so sistpoty
<xhaker> unfortunately i need to mess with sudoers
<xhaker> it usually works
<xhaker> raphink is affraid i can pose a security threat
<zakame> hm, when a lib undergoes c2a, should it do a Provides/Conflicts to the old libs, or just a Conflicts/Replaces?
<sistpoty> zakame: conflicts/replaces to the old lib
<sistpoty> xhaker: there are two probs with that:
<sistpoty> xhaker: 1) you mess with a file not in your package
<sistpoty> xhaker: 2) security problem, because merely be installing the package, you give a script root rights
<zakame> sistpoty: ah, ok :) that's what siretart suggested as well :)  I was reading dancer's library guide, which suggested the former...
<xhaker> sistpoty, the script is quite small and deals only with iwconfig and ifconfig..
<sistpoty> zakame: doko explained it pretty good in his post (the link on the mrege list)
<xhaker> there is no command "sudo add my script to the allowed list"
<zakame> sistpoty: oh, I forgot, haven't saved that locally :(
<sistpoty> xhaker: but the user won't even know that s.th. might pose a security risk
* zakame goes to search on his gmail
<sistpoty> xhaker: if it needs root rights, you might try setting s-bit
<sistpoty> xhaker: but if you do that, you should also inform the user about it...
<xhaker> if i do that? adding to sudoers?
<sistpoty> xhaker: usual way I've seen it, is that the package asks (via debconf) if the script is allowed to get s-bit set
<xhaker> sistpoty, i don't know how to do that :(
<sistpoty> xhaker: by s-bit you won't need to mess with sudoers any longer
<xhaker> couldn't i just +s and done?
<sistpoty> xhaker: I'm not 100% sure about that... you might want to ask pitty if that would be ok
<xhaker> he seems offline
<xhaker> well the package is now uploaded with raphink's help with cdbs
<xhaker> and some other stuff taken care of
<xhaker> sistpoty, where should a gnome applet binary go?
<sistpoty> xhaker: sorry, no clue about gnome ;)
<xhaker> oh
<xhaker> no problem
<sistpoty> <- kde
<zakame> wb Nafallo :)
<xhaker> i'm going to research it
<sistpoty> xhaker: for debconf, iirc there are good examples in debconf-dec
<sistpoty> debconf-doc even
<sistpoty> and iirc old xcdroast used the s-bit + debconf approach, but I can't say if you'll need a package from debian/stable or even older
<Nafallo> thanx. just a quick question though... was it ~/.fonts I would mkdir to place extra fonts in?
<zakame> yup
<zakame> then do a fc-cache -f
<Nafallo> oki, thanx :-). and goodnight :-)
<sistpoty> gn8 Nafallo
<zakame> gn8 Nafallo
<xhaker> gn8 everyone
<sistpoty> gn8 xhaker
<zakame> hmm, seems libmas0c2 doesn't need to be renamed to c2a after all
<zakame> its not in doko's list
<sistpoty> zakame: if it's not on the list, then it's not affected by the allocator change... but you might recheck with BTS, there is a bug for every affected package filed
<zakame> sistpoty: which bts? malone or debian's?  I've checked both, none so far
<sistpoty> zakame: debian's
<sistpoty> zakame: well then it seems the merge list is correct for another package :)
<zakame> sistpoty: yay, ok :)
* sistpoty needed to manually adjust at least 5 packages on the list, due to incorrectness
<sistpoty> (or missing bugs filed)
<zakame> ooh, we better take care then ;)
<sistpoty> yep ;)
<zakame> ooh muttprint finally builds :)
<sistpoty> grml... moosic isn't shown as "Done"
* sistpoty takes a look
<zakame> eh? I just closed it using lpbugs
<sistpoty> yep... but the mail didn't hit my tiber account
<sistpoty> seems like motu-mergers doesn't get forwarded to it
<sistpoty> s/motu-mergers/motu-reviewers/
<zakame> waah
<sistpoty> zakame: could you please try to change the assignee to motu-mergers? let's see if this results in a mail which updates the list
<zakame> sistpoty: ok, just done
<sistpoty> ok, I hope that will do the trick... if not I'll update the list by hand ;)
<StevenK> Can a MOTU re-request a sync of module-assistant? I have verified that it builds, installs and works on a dapper system.
<zakame> StevenK: checking
<sistpoty> StevenK: didn't ajmitch request a sync already?
<StevenK> Yes, he did.
<StevenK> But it hasn't happened yet.
<sistpoty> when did he request it?
<StevenK> Two days ago, I think.
<LaserJock> StevenK: I saw it on dapper-changes I thought
<StevenK> Ah, there it is.
<StevenK> Okay, no need then. :-)
<sistpoty> :)
<StevenK> sistpoty: And, I'd like to thank you for your sponsorship and uploading
<StevenK> my merges. :-)
<sistpoty> he, thx to your good work StevenK ;)
* StevenK glares at his pinkie for pressing Enter too early.
* StevenK is having fun merging moin. The debdiff is 13Mb.
<zakame> StevenK: whoa
<sistpoty> hf... I guess moin is by far not trivial
<sklav> is there a how to on how to create deb's?
<sklav> i want to assist in the universe maintenance
<Amaranth> sklav: Google for "Debian New Maintainer's Guide"
<sklav> ok Amaranth
<LaserJock> or go to doc.ubuntu.com
<zakame> sklav: there's the `maint-guide' package, in Universe iirc....
<sklav> ok i have bookmarked the first to links will give them a read
<sistpoty> zakame: argl... didn't work :(... fortunately I'm subscribed to motureviewers, so I can keep track
<zakame> sistpoty: hm, something's wrogn...
<zakame> sklav: you can also hang out at #ubuntu-motu-school :)
<sklav> joining as we speak
<sistpoty> zakame: on a 2nd thought, it cannot work... because the mail with "status => fixed" must be delivered to my tiber account, to make the package as fixed on the list
<zakame> er :/
<sistpoty> zakame: so an ugly hack would be to reassign, then reopen and reclose, but I guess it's easier if I just call update-merges.py ;)
<zakame> sistpoty: yeah, we'd be doing too many malone accesses just to do those
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> can somebody take a quick peek at malone but # 727
<LaserJock> s/but/bug/
<Amaranth> malone bug 727
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #727: Font problem with scilab In: scilab (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/727
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what to do with it. I mean, the reporter is talking about Hoary.
<LaserJock> If I don't see it in Breezy can it be closed?
<Amaranth> if you don't see it in dapper mark it fixed
<sistpoty> marking it as rejected would be more appropriate
<LaserJock> sistpoty: makes sense
<LaserJock> well, I don't see that bug but malone bug 3496 is certainly there
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3496: scilab installer bad path and fonts In: scilab (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3496
<LaserJock> actually I can't really tell because of the font is some kind of eastern font and I can't tell what the spacing should be
<LaserJock> but then debian bug #302741 is the opposite. I think this is just too hard for my brain right now
<Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Malone bug #302741: Bug does not exist
<Amaranth> gnome bug 100000
<Ubugtu> Gnome Bugzilla bug #100000: Gnome is full of bugs ! (100000 currently) Product: general, Component: general, Severity: trivial, Assigned to: unknown@gnome.bugs, Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: NOTABUG http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100000
<LaserJock> lol
<Amaranth> oh, so it just doesn't handle debian?
<sistpoty> BTS #302741
<sistpoty> debian #302741
* sistpoty kicks hard at Ubugtu
<sistpoty> ;)
* Amaranth looks at Seveas 
<Amaranth> kde bug 100000
<Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Malone bug #100000: Bug does not exist
<Amaranth> grr
<Amaranth> i guess it can't do _everything_
<Amaranth> although debian and kde are probably pretty important upstreams
<LaserJock> Amaranth: kde doesn't have bugs apparently ;-)
<Kyral> I love that UT2004 is native Linux install
<LaserJock> Kyral: ohhh yeah
<Amaranth> winelib or actaully native?
<LaserJock> native
<Kyral> Actually native
* sistpoty whispers quake4
<LaserJock> America's Army also
<Kyral> I hull my rig into a LAN Party
<Kyral> mention it runs Linux
<Amaranth> i wish freelancer wouldn't have been such a bomb, i want a freelancer 2
<Kyral> they laugh at me
<Kyral> until I kick their ass
<LaserJock> In my lab we had 5 guys playing UT2004 over our chemistry department network
<Kyral> Freelancer rocked WTF are you on?!
<Amaranth> "Unfortunately I have to announce that Digital Anvil Studios has been shut down completely." :'(
<Kyral> Yah unfortunately
<Amaranth> Kyral: I know, but it didn't sell.
<Amaranth> I love it.
<Kyral> Its awesome that George Takai was one of the VAs
<Kyral> How well does it run on Cedega?
<Amaranth> digital anvil just shut down so there is no chance for a sequel
<Amaranth> i dunno
<Amaranth> dual boot :)
<Kyral> "So now you know everything, how does it feel, Freelancer?"
<Kyral> I loved that line
<Amaranth> too bad it was such a short game
<Amaranth> i mean, i'm still finding new things exploring but i beat the missions in 3 days
<Amaranth> and the mods that are supposed to add new stories don't seem to actually work
<Kyral> Lancer's Reactor
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> i'm there now
<Amaranth> it looks like all the mods focus on multiplayer
<Kyral> I jumped into one of the Outcast systems once
<Kyral> while being on the Outcast's hitlist :D
<Amaranth> it was fun frying rogues in liberty with my anubis after i first beat it
<Amaranth> free money, basically
<Kyral> The Anubis sucks
<Amaranth> no way
<Kyral> Sabre :D
<Amaranth> well sure, if you want firepower over control
<Amaranth> i'd rather use my death's hands and do circles around people
<Kyral> Good point
<Kyral> I used a Light Fighter for most of the game
<Kyral> The Kusari LF is nice
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta get to bed so I will leave you guys to your games ;-)
<Amaranth> heh, i got the britonia heavy fighter and used it until i got to the osiris
<Amaranth> night LaserJock
<Kyral> That ugly POS?
<Kyral> Jeez...
<LaserJock> Kyral: you want some help tomorrow at some time?
<Amaranth> yeah, looked like a fish
<Kyral> yah
<LaserJock> Kyral: was that a yes to me or the fish like weapon?
<Kyral> both :P
<LaserJock> Kyral: will you be on irc most of the day?
<Kyral> prolly
<LaserJock> k, I'm not sure when I will be exactly. but I got to get in the lab and fire up the lasers tomorrow so that will be a good time
<\sh> moins
<zakame> hi! :)
<minghua> hello zakame
<zakame> hey minghua :)
<pef> someone from MOTUGames here ?
<Burgundavia> slomo_, ping
<siretart> morning
<siretart> pef: well, I think you mean me :)
<pef> siretart: morning
<siretart> pef: you want to join MOTUGames? ;)
<pef> siretart: I think you should add boson (opengl wargame) to your list (http://boson.eu.org) current packaged version is uninstallable, but I'm packaging new upstream release
<pef> current packaged version is 2 years old :/
<siretart> pef: I rather think we should drop the list completely
<siretart> pef: I remember boson.
<siretart> pef: the current package is really broken. but the DD seems uninterested in it :(
<siretart> pef: if you have time to update to new upstream and maintain it, that would be great!
<pef> siretart: I saw that :/ and  I'm packaging new upstream (I correct gcc4 issues right now)
<siretart> pef: perhaps we should ask Mickael Marchand, if he is still interested in that package
<pef> so he can ophan it ?
<pef> orphan
<siretart> he should
<siretart> if he doesnt have interest anymore
<siretart> it is his only package: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=marchand@kde.org
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<siretart> hi Gloubiboulga
<siretart> pef: I'd say if you have a newer boson package, which builds in dapper, just upload it, I'll take a look at it then.
<siretart> pef: everything is better than the current boson package :/
<pef> it's a bit long to build ;)
<siretart> I know
<siretart> that reminds me
<siretart> setting up pbuilder with ccache
<pef> siretart: I can now upload to archive ;)
<siretart> cool! :)
<siretart> boson could be a bit painful to upload, because of its size
<pef> siretart: should I notify to someone working on upload.ubuntu.com my big upload to prevents errors with disk space ?
<pef> siretart: I'm lucky, I have a big upload bw :)
<siretart> ah. lucky you
<siretart> no, I don't think you need to bug elmo about this
<pef> siretart: I wonder why they use mp3 for sound files :/
<azeem> ah, xdrawchem_1.9.8-2_20051203-0914-i386-successful.gz
<pef> siretart: do you think I should switch to cdbs for the new package ?
* StevenK is fighting cdbs with his moin merge.
<StevenK> And it's winning. :-/
<azeem> pef: do you repackage it from scratch, or just upgrading to a new upstream?
<pef> azeem: upgrade, but debian layout is a bit messy
<azeem> pef: my personal opinion is that MOTU should proceed like Debian NMUs (non-maintainer uploads), i.e. as uninvasive as possible
<azeem> but I do not know what the general party line is in here
<StevenK> azeem: Very sensible. Makes work for the next MOTU to merge/sync the packages job a little easier.
<azeem> pef: keep in mind that many Debian and Ubuntu developers conside CDBS an ugly and obstructing hack
* StevenK tries to stop his head nodding so hard it falls off his shoulders.
<StevenK> CDBS *sucks*.
<pef> wow
<azeem> well, I personally like it
<pef> a few months ago, it was "cdbs rocks"
<azeem> pef: opinions are split
<StevenK> Not from me, it wasn't. :-)
<StevenK> I find it just gets in your way...
<slomo_> i like cdbs too... it's perfect for "normal" packages which use autotools and are not too complex
<azeem> yeah
<azeem> but it is pretty rude to change a package's build system without consent of the other maintainers.  Dunno if that holds for MOTU work as well, though
<azeem> e.g., I kept xdrawchem at debmake (!!) for years now, even though I am a co-maintainer and the real maintainer is MIA and has only uploaded it twice in the last five years
<slomo_> well, if he likes to take care of the package until he drops all his changes again or gets them into debian he can do it... but i would prefer to keep the delta as small as possible ;)
<siretart> pef: cdbs.. hm. I think it depends on the package, and how complex the package is. OTOH, debhelper isn't that hard..
<pef> siretart: I will keep debhelper, packaging is now ok, but I have problems running the game (somes data files failed to "load")
<siretart> :(
<herve> hello
<Gloubiboulga> hi herve
<magnon> \sh_away: good luck
<pef> siretart: 3ds loader segfaults :/
<siretart> :(
<StevenK> Teehee.
<StevenK> I just put my puppy to bed, and he looked up at me as if to say, "I'm going to get up and follow ... Ah, screw it. I'm going to sleep."
<Gloubiboulga> I think amule needs a rebuild
<Gloubiboulga> there is a strange dependency trouble
* siretart looks
<siretart> looks like
<Gloubiboulga> siretart, do you want me to report a bug ?
<siretart> Gloubiboulga: I'm currently looking at it
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<zakame> evening all :D
<Gloubiboulga> hi zakame
<zakame> hi Gloubiboulga :)
<Gloubiboulga> siretart, I've rebuilt amule (for my personnal use), the package works fine
<siretart> Gloubiboulga: I just uploaded it
<zakame> siretart: hm, I think mas can live to be c2, I've checked the debian BTS and it's not in doko's list too :)
<siretart> zakame: great
<zakame> siretart: though I'm unsure about the missing gccmakedep... is it right to just use `gcc -M`? or should I file a bug on xutils about it?
<siretart> zakame: I'm unsure too. please ask daniels about this
<zakame> is he around?
<siretart> appearently not :(
<zakame> waah
<siretart> so perhaps a bugzilla bug is a good idea
<zakame> ok, thanks :)
<siretart> does anyone know how to edit the gnome mime registry?
<Nafallo> zakame: re: eris, why have a versioned dep with ubuntuX in it? and why have a diffrent version for the binary dep for that lib? :-)
<zakame> Nafallo: because eris won't build on dapper with the given debian versions for those packages... but I think I could re-adjust these so they won't call for ubuntuX versions
<Nafallo> I just built it with 0.5.97-1 as versioned dep...
<Nafallo> the version required for the binary dep that is...
<zakame> it worked? hmm, I was following the original debian version
<Nafallo> it worked :-)
<slomo_> siretart: <seb128> ProN00b: edit /etc/gnome/defaults.list and s/totem/<your_player>/ to change for the box
<zakame> anyhow vorlon bumped these versions, it was an RC bugfix
<Nafallo> hm, oki. so could you drop ubuntuX and fix the deps for the binary -dev to match those? :-)
<zakame> am looking at it now :-)
<Nafallo> good, I'll be back after watching Doom and look at it then :-)
<slomo_> Nafallo: hf :)
<Nafallo> thanx slomo :-)
<zakame> ooh, Doom!
<Gloubiboulga> bye
<zakame> what's "hf"? :)
<slomo_> have fun
<slomo_> oh, wtf doesn't know it
<zakame> ah :) thanks
<zakame> haha
<Kyral> Morning
<zakame> hi Kyral :)
<Kyral> sup
<thierry_> bounties start to be interesting... https://launchpad.net/bounties/vtiger-universe (100$)
<zakame> Nafallo_away: re: eris, updated the debdiff :-)
<zakame> bye all, and good night!
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<Kyral> hey
* Kyral laughs as he watches Gundam SEED: Destiny
<Kyral> Yzak seems more upset over the fact that the Archangel didn't call him to help more rather than the fact that the Archangel is attacking his side lol
<Kyral> gah stupid Undernet
<Kyral> brb
<sistpoty> hi folks
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi siretart
* Kyral sighs
<LaserJock> bmonty: hi! how's it going for you?
<bmonty> LaserJock: hey...things are good here, you?
<LaserJock> bmonty: oh, pretty good. I am in the mist of a licensing debate over the packaging guide that I was working on but other than that fine.
<bmonty> heh....I just updated my laptop to dapper and X stopped working
<LaserJock> bmonty: what kernel?
<sistpoty> siretart: what do I actually get from stage1? a rebuilt .changes file which represents a package with orig?
<bmonty> LaserJock: 2.6.12-10
<siretart> sistpoty: exactly
<sistpoty> siretart: ah, ok
<siretart> sistpoty: you get a list of files representing the source package
<LaserJock> bmonty: right now 2.6.15 is a lot better for me. You got a nvidia or ATI ?
<bmonty> LaserJock: ATI
<siretart> sistpoty: and containing the possibly regenerated .changesfile
<LaserJock> bmonty: that sucks ;-)
<sistpoty> siretart: ok... can we eventually change this a little bit? I'd like to pack this into a class, which contains some syntactic sugar
<LaserJock> bmonty: my nvidia works fine in 2.6.15 but it is broken in 2.6.12
<siretart> sistpoty: sure. what do you prefer? just the changes file?
<bmonty> LaserJock: the video isn't bad..the only thing that sucks is if I use the 3D accelerated driver suspend stops working
<bmonty> but I don't use much 3D so it isn't an issue
<sistpoty> siretart: I'm not quite sure yet... actually I'm just writing a class that knows a bout a sourcepackage. either put that in there or make an extra class for the changes file
<LaserJock> bmonty: yeah, but anyway the 2.6.15 was a lot better for me. once the udev stuff settled down
<bmonty> LaserJock: I'm installing 2.6.15 now :)
<bmonty> siretart: I have a question for you on the filelight merge you emailed me on?
<siretart> bmonty: sure. what was the bugnr?
<bmonty> siretart: malone #4606
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4606: filelight: merge new debian version In: filelight (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Benjamin Montgomery, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/4606
<siretart> bmonty: ah, now I remember. what's up?
<bmonty> you asked to drop the .po files...aren't those additional translations for the strings in the program and wouldn't we want those?
<siretart> bmonty: arn't these added automatically by rosetta?
* bmonty shrugs.
<bmonty> I'll check in to it
<siretart> bmonty: when looking at the debdiff, I really dont think it was added by a motu
<siretart> bmonty: this would be mentioned in the changelog
<sivang> hi guys, how many mergers have we left for dapper?
<bmonty> grr...I wish debdiff would ignore autoconf files
<siretart> bmonty: use filterdiff!
<siretart> bmonty: and lsdiff
<sistpoty> is s.o. with bashu@surgut.ru currently here?
<sivang> siretart: those ignore autoconf files?
<sistpoty> sivang: do you mean filterdiff?
<sivang> sistpoty: siretart siad rither filterdiff or lsdiff
<siretart> sivang: yes
<sivang> sistpoty: so I have no idea :)
<sistpoty> sivang: you can filter diffs with them, so yes ;)
<siretart> sivang: filterdiff is a tool to include oder exclude specific files in patches
<sivang> yes, I've just manned it
* siretart was about to write 'filterdiff lets you filter diffs'
<sistpoty> hehe
<sivang> but thanks guys :)
<sivang> I used to manually exclude those on patches I did
<sivang> bmonty: however, if you have changes to the autconf.in files, you do need to diff against the orig ones as well, IIRC
<sivang> sistpoty: am I right? ^^
<sistpoty> sivang: right
<siretart> if you patch configure.in and/or Makefile.am, you need to rerun autoconf/automake.
<sistpoty> sivang: you can only drop generated files
<sivang> so , excluding the autofoo*s, is only in case you are most certainly sure you haven't done needed changed to them
<sivang> sistpoty: sure, I knew that as well. thanks for reassuring.
<sivang> sistpoty: this is where the remaning mergers list is? http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new
<sistpoty> sivang: yep
<sivang> sistpoty: ok, thanks. I think LaserJock is going to walk me through one merge as an example =) (ho ho)
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> well, at least try. I'm no expert
<sivang> as I see there are only like a hundered or less of them, I should probably hurry
<sistpoty> however I've got some bad news: there are a few more merges outstanding (some lists from keybuk, that are not yet on the merge-list)... however I need to do write some smart import for these first
<siretart> since merges for main have already been stopped, I think we should also have a deadline for merges
<siretart> preferably this year
<sivang> siretart: what do you mean stopped?
<siretart> sivang: well, they stopped merging, AFAIU
<LaserJock> I thought merges stopped at UVF? Or maybe the automatic merges are before
<Nafallo> isn't it just that MOM is stopped so they can catch up before turning it on again?
* sivang confused at the multitude of ideas
<LaserJock> Nafallo: yeah, that's what I thought
<sivang> sistpoty: so that mean not much more merge work to do / or more merge work to do in less time :-)
<sivang> sistpoty: ?
<sistpoty> sivang: basically I guess not many packages need to be merged again... but I haven't looked at keybuks lists yet
<sivang> sistpoty: in any event, his lists are for main no?
<sistpoty> sivang: yes
<sivang> sistpoty: hmm, bad. Can we work on main merges as motus?
* sivang also pokes the release schedule
<sistpoty> sivang: we can... but would need a sponsor... and I guess some coordination to prevent duplicate work
<sivang> ok, checking the RS:
<sistpoty> sivang: afaik main merges are assigned to persons, so would be best to ask the one in response for a merge first
<siretart> Nafallo: oh, you may be right
<sivang> feb 2nd - Remaining upstream merges completed
<siretart> sivang: in theory, everyone can work on main. you need some core devloper to upload your stuff, though.
<siretart> sivang: so it is basically the same situation with universe and motu hopefuls
<sivang> Nafallo: and then it would spit out a load of more packages to merge?
<sivang> siretart: and working on main mergers would count instead of the same amount of motu pkgs I would have done, had I done it eariler?
<sivang> (count for approval for universe/main that is)
<siretart> sivang: sure, but they are more difficult to get approved
<sistpoty> btw siretart: I wrote a small python script to basically do pdebuild -> lintian -> piuparts. Do you want to include it in motu-tools?
<sivang> siretart: well, then they may count even better then.
<Nafallo> sivang: yes
<siretart> sivang: sure, just tell me where to merge from
<sistpoty> siretart: whereas the only really cool thing bout it is that it logs pbuilder to a file and does a tail -f to this at the same time (I really like having a log and watching the output)
<siretart> sistpoty: sure, just tell me where to merge from
<siretart> :)
<sistpoty> siretart: haven't adopted it to bzr yet, and I guess my motu-tools is a little bit outdated... I'll put it on tiber
<sistpoty> siretart: it's called ralf.py (in my home)
* siretart looks
<sistpoty> I just thought for some emancipation we could use male scripts as well ;)
<siretart> subprocess looks like a nice module
<sistpoty> subprocess rocks really hard
<sistpoty> there are some bugs still, like not chown'ing all files back from root-ownership, but apart from that it works quite good
<siretart> sistpoty: just added your script
<sistpoty> cool, thx
<siretart> sistpoty: try "bzr branch ~siretart/public_html/motu-tools" on tiber
<siretart> sistpoty: then use "bzr add foo" and "bzr commit" to do stuff.
* siretart searching food. cu later
<sistpoty> cya siretart
<dylan> good evening
<jgw> hiya
<LaserJock> jgw: hi
<sistpoty> cya folks
<siretart> muhaha
* siretart now running xorg from dapper
* bmonty is also
<herve> bye
<dylan> ajmitch are you here ?
<ajmitch> rave_: just got in, why?
<siretart> hey ajmitch!
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<bmonty> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello
<rave_> hey
<rave_> did you had a look @ the pure-ftpd patch ?
<ajmitch> only a brief look
<ajmitch> not sure if it's a good idea to depend on inetd
<ajmitch> since most people would want to run xinetd, I suspect
* bmonty thinks xinetd is much better than inetd
<ajmitch> pitti would probably hate you for depending just on inetd :)
<rave_> yes bt
<rave_> *but
<rave_> i didnt see xinetd.conf files in the pure-ftpd package
<rave_> so i must have overlooked
<rave_> checking ...
<ajmitch> you shouldn't need to
<ajmitch> take a look at other packages that use inetd
<rave_> ajmitch
<rave_> its a hardcoded fix the pure-ftpd did
<rave_> the only aim @ inetd
<rave_> its in the changelog
<ajmitch> and xinetd can use inetd config
<rave_> * ensure that we default to inetd mode in init script
<rave_> from 1.0.13a-3
<rave_> so your saying i should add xinetd files to the deb
<rave_> so it would automaticly see if we have inetd or xinetd
<rave_> that would open the bug i fixed
<rave_> because now i intalls inetd
<rave_> if i remove it from deps and no inetd and xinetd is install we have the same bug on our hands
<ajmitch> you would add something to check for xinetd
<ajmitch> look at other packages for examples
<rave_> ile work on it
<rave_> ok and other patches ?
<rave_> makeztxt ?
<ajmitch> haven't looked at them
<rave_> Timidity ?
<rave_> ow ok
<rave_> well ile asign pure ftpd back to me then
* ajmitch is not the only person who reviews things :)
<rave_> no but i talked to you before
<rave_> so asking doesnt hurt :)
<rave_> ajmitch xinetd over inetd ?
<rave_> while installing
<rave_> i think thats the bet
<jgw> laser: hiya sorry :) i went off and did a bit of trail running in the first snow of the year
<Kyral> Yanno you can kill the guy who has your nick
<JohnnyMast> to every one here
<JohnnyMast> no longer i use rave_ as nickname but its JohnnyMast from now
<JohnnyMast> thats easyer because i use it on the Wiki`s as well
<Treenaks> JohnnyMast: you actually do stuff then?
<JohnnyMast> yes
<JohnnyMast> i actualy do stuff
<JohnnyMast> i suggest you cjheck my wiiki
<Treenaks> _your_ wiki?
<JohnnyMast> *wiki
<JohnnyMast> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnnyMast
<Seveas> not too much
<Seveas> motu log isn't too bad
<Seveas> definitely needs work though
<crimsun> JohnnyMast: please adjust debian/control:Depends to "netkit-inetd | inetd"
<JohnnyMast> crimsun im redoing that patch as we speak
<JohnnyMast> to also check for xinetd
<JohnnyMast> so its no biggy you can remove that diff
<JohnnyMast> it was sugested my ajmitch
<tseng> whiprush: http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/67013965/in/photostream/ < oh man you look like a mini-emo kid
<crimsun> actually you should probably use "inetutils-inetd | inetd"
<JohnnyMast> i now had inetd | xinetd
<JohnnyMast> should be
<whiprush> tseng: heh.
<crimsun> inetd is a virtual package
<JohnnyMast> inetutils-inetd | xinetd
<tseng> track jackets are elite
<JohnnyMast> or is xinetd virtual 2
<crimsun> if you prefer xinetd, use "xinetd | inetd"
<JohnnyMast> thats for the tip
<crimsun> np
<JohnnyMast> xinetd it self is not virtaul (shows apt-cache showpkg xinetd
<JohnnyMast> ) but ur right inetd is
<JohnnyMast> okey now there is one thing i need help with
<JohnnyMast> i added pure-ftpd-common.xinetd to the package but the packager doesnt add it
<JohnnyMast> how can i make it include this new file ?
<crimsun> where did you include it?
<JohnnyMast> in debian/
<crimsun> are you using {p}debuild or dpkg-buildpackage directly?
<JohnnyMast> and its copyed via pure-ftpd-common.preinst
<JohnnyMast> dpkg-buildpackage
<hub> my laptop is dead for good
<hub> now I have to buy tools to even have a remote chance to salvage it
<crimsun> JohnnyMast: I'm unclear what you're trying to do; it would help to pastebin your rules and preinst
<JohnnyMast> sorry dpkg-buildpackage
<JohnnyMast> sure
<JohnnyMast> hold on
<crimsun> hub: ouch, sorry to read
<hub> crimsun: it is 5yr old
<crimsun> hub: still, broken equipment is no fun
<hub> it is not
<hub> because I can't even afford to replace it ATM
<JohnnyMast> crimsun http://pastebin.com/447711
<crimsun> JohnnyMast: please don't invoke /etc/init.d/foo directly; use invoke-rc.d instead
<JohnnyMast> i dont
<JohnnyMast> thats not what i made
<JohnnyMast> read the xinetd
<JohnnyMast> thats what i added
<JohnnyMast> and i should better use install then cp
<JohnnyMast> but its just a setup
<JohnnyMast> but dpkg claims that pure-ftpd-common.xinetd is not found in the package
<tseng> did you use $(CURDIR)/debian/foo ?
<crimsun> right
<crimsun> remember all scripts use the root of your untarred source as the origin
<JohnnyMast> i did build the package as following
<JohnnyMast> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<JohnnyMast> thats all
<JohnnyMast> now what to i do to include the file ?
<crimsun> change ''cp pure-ftpd-common.xinetd /etc/xinetd.d/pure-ftpd''
<crimsun> the path to pure-ftpd-common.xinetd is incorrect, as tseng mentioned
<JohnnyMast> chould i change the path on the src side ? of the cp ?
<crimsun> yes
<JohnnyMast> so
<JohnnyMast> cp $(CURDIR)/debian/pure-ftpd-common.xinetd /etc/xinetd.d/pure-ftpd
<JohnnyMast> testing ..
<crimsun> ($CURDIR needs to be valid in that case)
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> im testing so we will see
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-09
<JohnnyMast> but its stange because in the package you have entry`s not containing the prefix
<JohnnyMast> they just appy install
<JohnnyMast> install -m .... <include file in .deb> <location>
<tseng> install knows what the prefix is
<Seveas> enabling support for xinetd should be done in debian/config so it would work with dpkg-reconfigure
<JohnnyMast> thats the problem it picks inetd even if its not installed
<Seveas> and the file for xinetd.d should be in /usr/share/pure-ftpd, the config should just symlink it (and the postinst should remove that symlink)
<JohnnyMast> thats why i added a defpend to inetd
<Seveas> postrm*
<JohnnyMast> ile work it out
<JohnnyMast> just put up some nice music and im on a role
<JohnnyMast> r.e.m or bad religion
<hunger> Isen't inetd about to get removed? I think I read something like that.
<JohnnyMast> well its okey because now it depends on xinetd (pre) or secundary inetd
<hunger> JohnnyMast: I think the inetd functionality was about to get removed altogether... It is not really worth the trouble with the amount of RAM in current boxes.
<JohnnyMast> if thats the case
<hunger> JohnnyMast: But I might be wrong... could have been a debian or gentoo or fedora list where I read that:-)
<JohnnyMast> the pure-ftpd has to go on the shuffle
<JohnnyMast> because
<JohnnyMast> it as like in debian
<JohnnyMast> prefers inetd
<JohnnyMast> the whole package is buid that way
<hunger> JohnnyMast: I am on way to many MLs.
<JohnnyMast> and has a no good switch to do || if inetd_install_faild; then mode=standalone
<JohnnyMast> its not good in that
<JohnnyMast> good :)
<Seveas> JohnnyMast, when you think you are finished please post the complete debdiff pn the pastebin
<JohnnyMast> it keeps you up-to-daye
<JohnnyMast> Seveas for sure
<hunger> JohnnyMast: Well, what good is that if you can't remember where the fact you just learned belongs to?
<JohnnyMast> its not the orgin but knowing it is better
<JohnnyMast> i forgot where my shools where
<Seveas> no way
<JohnnyMast> but i know what i learned
<JohnnyMast> :)
<Seveas> hungers fact is useless, since he doesn't know where it's from (not ubuntu anyway)
<Seveas> so knowing the origin is important :)
<JohnnyMast> hmm yeah but i didnt read it in ubuntu eighter so
<JohnnyMast> forgot to add pure-ftpd-common.xinetd to pure-ftpd-common.preinst
<lifeless> azeem: around ?
<raphink> siretart: just so you know, your debian/control in mplayer-skins in not UTF-8
<raphink> or rather
<raphink> it doesn't open as UTF8
<raphink> wonder why
<LaserJock> ok, for the packaging guide do you guys recommend apt-get or aptitude for installing packages?
* minghua doesn't see any advantage apt-get has over aptitude
<minghua> but then again, my opinion is biased as I'm an aptitude advocator
<LaserJock> aptitude automatically installs Recommends
<minghua> then recomment using aptitude -R/--without-recommends in your doc
<Seveas> LaserJock, that's configurable
<minghua> s/recomment/recommend/
<minghua> LaserJock: The only problem I can see is that aptitude 0.4 is still a little beta-ish and has bugs
<LaserJock> oh, I'm not against aptitude but I just want to use something that will be best for readers
<minghua> but then again, upstream is fixing them in a fast pace
<LaserJock> minghua: I was thinking installing Recommends was a positive
<minghua> LaserJock: just tell them the --without-recommends and the /etc/apt/apt.conf setting at the first place, and I think they'll love it
* minghua doesn't think so
<minghua> LaserJock: the problem is that quite a lot of Debian packages are misusing the Recommends: section
<minghua> LaserJock: many of those should be Suggests: instead
<LaserJock> so then apt-get might be an advantage  since you don't have to explain what -R is for, etc.
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, you can say so :-)
<azeem> lifeless: now
<raphink> I guess Recommends should list packages that directly add fonctionalities to the program
<Kyral> I feel dirty
<Kyral> I used Checkinstall to make a local package
* LaserJock slaps Kyral back into MOTU land ;-)
<Kyral> Wait
<Kyral> I can't use Checkinstall
<Kyral> HA!
<Kyral> VICTORY IS MINE!
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> I program I am trying to run wants libwx_gtk2u_xrc-2.5
<Kyral> is it alright to just symlink the libwx_gtk2u_xrc-2.6 to it?
<Kyral> ...
<LaserJock> sure ;-)
<Kyral> this stupid program is using 2.5 of wxwidgets
<Kyral> STABBITY
<Kyral> STABBITY!!!
<LaserJock> Kyral: that's crappy
<Kyral> I know I know
<Kyral> I'm symlinking
<Kyral> Or can I download libwxgtk2.5
<Kyral> ...this angers me
<Kyral> I have to compile 2.5 of wxwidgets
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<crimsun> Kyral: that's very bad; an RC-level bug should be filed on it. Which is it?
<Kyral> Its not a Debian bug
<Kyral> Its a program out of Debian
<Kyral> I was just venting :P
<Kyral> They gave the sourcecode to wxwidgets 2.5
<crimsun> for the most part, most things can be carried forward to 2.6
<crimsun> there's not _too_ much breakage
<Kyral> Should I make this..lol
<Kyral> waste.sourceforge.net
<LaserJock> bmonty: how's the kiddo?
<bmonty> LaserJock: he is making life interesting :)
<LaserJock> bmonty: I'm sure
<Kyral> Friend wants to know if Waste is okay to package
<Kyral> along with WxWidgets 2.5
<crimsun> absolutely not.
<Kyral> thats what I thought
<Amaranth> wxwidgets 2.5 will not be packaged
<crimsun> Waste is fine _without_ wxwidgets2.5
<Amaranth> it's the unstable version of 2.6
<Kyral> Yah well, I have no clue how to change the sourcecode to use 2.6
<crimsun> note also that wxwidgets2.5 was ripped out of Debian Sarge prior to its release for being both non-free in its license and for being horribly broken according to its Debian maintainer (and upstream developer)
<Amaranth> i remember that, i had to pluck things from either hoary or warty to get 2.5
<crimsun> the only reason it remained in Hoary is that we weren't quick enough
<Kyral> my friend was amused that you objected to WxWidgets instead of WASTE :P
<irvin> masters of the universe
<irvin> i want to download all the packages for breezy from archive.ubuntu.com but i don't know which one to get.. dists/breezy or /pool
<LaserJock> all of them?
<freeflying> irvin: there maybe 120G space need
<irvin> i want to make a dvd for all the packages and distribute them among the broaband-impared
<irvin> but i want the binary packages only for i386
<bmonty> irvin: can't you use the DVD images?
<freeflying> bmonty:  he need all bainary package of i386
<TheMuso> irvin: Look into debmirror.
<TheMuso> To download them at least.
<poningru> can someone test something in a package?
<poningru> !info wifi-radar
<zakame> hello all :)
<sivang> morning zakame
<sivang> zakame: congrets for being approved as a motu, just saw the motu report
<zakame> sivang: thanks very much! :)
<zakame> how's everything?
<sivang> zakame: pretty fine, LaserJock was trying to help me walkthrough a merge , are you able to?
<sivang> (err, I may need to reset my lpbugs.conf file again here and checkout again the motu-tools archive)
<zakame> what part of the process are you in now?
<sivang> zakame: I will be ready for opening and assigning the merge bug to me in a couple of minutes. As this is not my personal workstation I'l need to reset my lpbugs.conf here
<zakame> ooh
<sivang> actually, coming to think of it - I also need a pbuilder right?
<sivang> (besides a chroot)
<zakame> its recommended :) though if you say that's not your personal machine, you can skip that
<zakame> but the chroot's needed
<bojan> hi!
<zakame> hey bojan :)
<sivang> ok, thenm I'll skip the pbuilder. I'll just work inside the chroot
<bojan> hi zakame. how are you?
<zakame> bojan: just hanging out for a while :) will be hearing mass a bit later
<zakame> bbl
<sivang> anybody here ? :)
<sivang> I wonder why some of the items in http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new are not found when clicked through to scott's folder
<nomed> why does the pkge xfwm4 has so many /usr/share/applications/xfce*.desktop files?
<nomed> umm well .. why can't all those xfce*.desktop file be substituted with xfce-settings-manager.desktop ?
<siretart> morning
<ajmitch> morning siretart
<siretart> nomed: you should ask janimo
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<nomed> ok thanks
<nomed> i'll post a message to ubuntu-motu list
* StevenK waves to ajmitch.
<ajmitch> hi StevenK
<StevenK> ajmitch: So, if I point you to a debdiff, will you look over it for me?
<nomed> it's just that i have the settings menu section that contains just xfce stuff and takes all the screen
<nomed> it's really a long list
<ajmitch> StevenK: right now? I could give it a quick glance but I'll be sleeping soon
<StevenK> ajmitch: Hrm. It's moin, and the _merged.debdiff is 13Mb, so lets leave it until tomorrow. :-)
<ajmitch> youch
<ajmitch> why so large?
<ajmitch> what ubuntu changes were made in the past that bloat it out?
<StevenK> A shedload of files had their ^M's removed.
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> evil
<StevenK> And a shedload of i18n stuff.
<StevenK> -rw-r--r--  1 steven users 7.6M 2005-12-04 12:49 debian/patches/203_ubuntu_i18n.patch
* ajmitch cries
<ajmitch> the debian debdiff is 20M by itself
* ajmitch is glad he isn't in .au for Christmas this year
<ajmitch> it's warm enough here
<StevenK> Yah. It was bloody 32C here today.
<ajmitch> probably only about mid 20s here
<StevenK> You don't have the Weather applet? :-)
<ajmitch> it doesn't show dunedin, last I looked :)
<StevenK> Ah.
<StevenK> -rw-r--r--  1 steven users 8.1M 2005-12-04 21:28 moin_1.3.5-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<StevenK> Given most of that has to be the 7.6Mb 203_ubuntu_i18n.patch, that's pretty good.
<siretart> boah, and here it is snowing, and the streets are damn icy...
<ajmitch> 23C here
<siretart> puh
<ajmitch> so my guess wasn't too far off
<StevenK> I'd much prefer 23C.
* ajmitch spent most of november & december in melbourne last year
<StevenK> After about 29C, my Athlon starts to get a little too warm, and it misbehaves.
<ajmitch> which was a bit warmer than dunedin
<StevenK> Yes, but Melbourne is strange.
* siretart wonders if he should upgrade his gnome to dapper..
<ajmitch> so is dunedin :)
<lifeless> azeem: opensync packaging
<lifeless> azeem: I've an ITP ready to file ..
<azeem> lifeless: ajmitch said he was interested as well
<azeem> I have enough to do already, so please go forward :)
<lifeless> ;)
<lifeless> I've emailed the guy who did the interim package
<lifeless> but more important:
<lifeless> how to split it:
<lifeless> I am thinking of:
<lifeless> opensync + opensync-dev
<lifeless> one package per plugin
<lifeless> multisync
<lifeless> I'm proposing to maintain opensync & opensync-dev in debian, and perhaps one or two of the plugins (i.e. the python one)
<sivang> hey lifeless :)
<lifeless> hey sivang
<lifeless> sivang: did you see the interfaceverfication paper/draft ?
<sivang> lifeless: I have started reading it, but then had to get to something else. actually now that you have reminded me of it - I will go finish reading it.
<azeem> lifeless: multisync is still its own project/source package, right?
<azeem> there is also a KDE thingy now, which seems to get hypde
<azeem> hyped
<lifeless> azeem: yes
<lifeless> the kde thing is a kde specific ui, like multisync is just ui now
<azeem> ok
<azeem> the question will be what to do with multisync in Debian
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> I don't particularly 'get' X build deps etc
<lifeless> so I don't want to package multisync ;)
<lifeless> I figure if I get the engine packaging right, you can drop in a new multisync anytime.
<azeem> I mean, it is also a social problem, because the maintainer is MIA.  And whether to just have multisync-0.9x supersede 0.8x with the same source package, or have a new source package
<azeem> ok, I'll think of that
* sivang watches http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1165754797197197496&q=ubuntu
<sivang> Marks keynote is quite interesting.
<sivang> hehe, humor is more important then trademarks :)
<raphink> Currently, the playback feature of Google Video isn't available in your country.
<raphink>  :( :(
<sivang> raphink: where are you in?
<raphink> what's wrong with my country ? :(
<raphink> France
<raphink> !
<raphink> it's not really like I'm in the middle of nowhere ;)
<sivang> no idea, I hadn't a clue this google video has anything to do with where you are in
<raphink> hehe
<zyga> hey guys
<raphink> We hope to make this feature available more widely in the future, and we really appreciate your patience.
<zyga> anyone happens to have the whole dapper repo around?
<raphink> pff
<raphink> what do you mean zyga ?
<sivang> zyga: I once prepared one, it took about a day to get it all on disk
<zyga> raphink: each .deb from dapper
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<zyga> (like someone with ro access to archive.ubuntu.com maybe?)
<raphink> what for zyga ?
<zyga> raphink: running three python scripts that extract data for command-not-found
<zyga> one scans for +x files, other scans for symlinks and the last reads update-alternatives in postinst
<raphink> what do you use that for zyga ?
<zyga> raphink: for the command-not-found specs
<zyga> raphink: www.suxx.pl/blog (latest post)
<raphink> so this is a tool to apply to scripts to check if it might generate `command not found' ?
<zyga> no no
<zyga> it's a tool that gathers all commands to build a database
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> and works as a deamon on the command prompt
<zyga> so that when you ask to run foo and foo is not around bash will tell you 'ah, foo isn't here but you can install it by typing apt-get install blah'
<raphink> to check what is typed, grep it and check if the app does exist or not
<zyga> no :)
<raphink> so if it doesn't, it explains how to install it
<raphink> right?
<raphink> lol
<zyga> it is using bash's command_not_found hook
<raphink> ok
<raphink> but it must be a deamon, no?
<zyga> a deamon would smell like a keylogger ;] 
<zyga> no, it's only executed when a command is not found
<zyga> it's pretty fast
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> :)
<zyga> so when I type sl instead of ls it tells me I can install sl ... :)
<raphink> so you have to hack the command-no-fond bash sub
<zyga> actually we've hacked bash to support that (or mvo did, I just made minor adjustmennt)
<zyga> I wrote a program that knows what to suggest
<zyga> and a set of data extractors
<raphink> good :)
<zyga> but right now I need to run all scripts over again
<raphink> you'll need a big database to support all commands in Debian-like systems
<zyga> especially the third script, the one that reads alternatives
<zyga> nah
<raphink> mhm
<zyga> <0.5M of plain text
<zyga> about 4 when in dbm format
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> well it's still a big work ;)
<zyga> how so?
<zyga> It's automated
<raphink> oh ok :)
<zyga> all I need is a person with all the debs
<raphink> well I was just seeing about the notepad one
<raphink> and wonderinf how this can be automated ;)
<zyga> that was an example of suggestions
<lifeless> sivang: I've updated that document http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/interfaceverification.txt
<raphink> ok
<zyga> suggestions are of cours manual :)
<raphink> sure
<raphink> can't you get the whole list of packages from apt-get?
<raphink> if it's just the whole list that you want
<raphink> or on packages.ubuntu.com maybe
<zyga> no I cannot
<zyga> I need to scan each package
<raphink> ok
<raphink> what do you need to scan in packages?
<sivang> lifeless: ah ok, then I'm to it as soon as I finish the video. Thanks for the notification.
<zyga> raphink: symlinks, +x files and postinst scripts
* raphink is thinking whether it could be done another way, and can't think of any other way ;)
<zyga> no it cannot :)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> you might try to contact the maintainer of an ubuntu mirror
<raphink> see if he's willing to run your scripts
* sivang notes this is a sunday :-)
<raphink> sivang: yes I noted it too. Rainy sunday :(
<zyga> raphink: I'll wait till monday, mvo has that access :)
<sivang> raphink: here is sunny and hot :)
<raphink> good for you sivang :D
<sivang> raphink: actually, if this continues that way - I suspect we're in for some drout
<raphink> :s
<sivang> lifeless: btw, I'm curious - why did you metnion db2 as an example ? :)
<lifeless> big database :)
<sivang> lifeless: right, and ___SLOW___ mostly on "domestic" hardware :)
<slomo> hi everybody :)
<sivang> hey slomo , 'sup?
<mbreit> hi guys
<lifeless> sivang: erm
<lifeless> sivang: *any* disk based db is slow
<slomo> hi sivang, mbreit
<lifeless> relative to memory access
<sivang> lifeless: true, but comparing db2 that's not natively running on the disk (e.g. has its own partition) and other FOSS db's in the same approach, the latter mostly wins over my setup here.
<herve> hello
<sivang> lifeless: suprisingly enough, in order to get the same redundency you get out of ext3 , in IBM's AIX is approx two times slower compared to ext3.
<lifeless> sivang: the point is to not compare apples to apples
<lifeless> but to check that an apple and an orange are both fruit
<lifeless> and then use the cheaper fruit
<lifeless> the lp test suite for instance
<lifeless> takes 30+ minutes to run
<lifeless> nearly 6 minutes of that is in python
<lifeless> the rest is outside python - i.e. postgresql
<lifeless> 6 minutes is not great, but we can work on that. 30 minutes is terrible.
<StevenK> lifeless: Heh, I love that. "but to check that an apple and an orange are both fruit"
<lifeless> StevenK: thanks
<lifeless> ... but did it make sense ?
<\sh> much better then "that a tomatoe and a potatoe are both fruits" is much better...and makes more sense...but it's not obvious, because many people are thinking, that a tomatoe and a potatoe are vegetables...which are not
<\sh> oh well...\sh work on your grammar...and think straight
* sivang takes that recommendation for himself as well
<\sh> sivang: quite a problem this morning..we came back this morning around 1 or so from the "Essener Linux Tage" see planet :)
<sivang> \sh: ah, well - good for you :) I wish I had gone to a linux event on my weekend :)
<\sh> sivang: was quite ok...gentoo and ubuntu were sitting together
<sivang> \sh: hehe, so I take it you enjoyed yourself
<\sh> I met some interesting people there...
<sivang> \sh: like whom?
<\sh> sivang: well 1/4 of the german ubuntu-dev team were enjoying
<\sh> one guy from credative, a linux company here in my area..doing some goverment linux stuff
<sivang> Chris Halls?
<\sh> another company who are delivering small linux clients ... via chipset etc.
<sivang> cool
<azeem> Chris is in the .uk, I thought
<sivang> ah right
<sivang> I forgot
<sivang> azeem: I think he is also related to credative no?
<azeem> sivang: yeah, he runs the .uk branch
<\sh> so...another coffee from my new ubuntu coffee mug :)
<sivang> so many linux events in germany, I wish I could visit only quarter of them :)
<\sh> sivang: most of them are community work...LWE or Linuxtag is more professional
<sivang> \sh: so Essener Linux Tage is also community?
<\sh> sivang: looked like :) but for the first time quite prof. but not many projects, ubuntu, gentoo, debian, skolinux, gnome and some other lugs
* StevenK waves at \sh.
<\sh> moins StevenK
<StevenK> \sh: Can you request a sync of pgadmin3. I've checked the _merged.debdiff which is just debian/changelog stuff, and it builds, installs and works fine in a dapper chroot.
<\sh> StevenK: did they change the build-dep from libwxgtk-2.5 to 2.6?
<\sh> ah I see now.....yes
<StevenK> Yup. I checked that bit.
<StevenK> \sh: Danke
<\sh> StevenK: wow..Bitte Schoen :)
<StevenK> Not so much. It's the only word I know. :-)
<\sh> StevenK: bitte schoen is something like "You're Welcome"
<StevenK> \sh: Ah.
<spacey> schoen?
<spacey> :P
<spacey> schn
<spacey> i hope:)
<spacey> no?
<tseng> sch?n is hard to type
<spacey> hmm
<tseng> so is double s
<\sh> well...my uk keyboard doesn't have umlauts :)
<spacey> true:)
<spacey> but schoen means shoe in dutch :P just looks wierd:P
<tseng> my uk keyboard is in en_US :)
<StevenK> Hrm. irssi in screen in Gnome terminal doesn't like the UTF-8 that is flying around.
<tseng> you have to enable utf in screen and irssi
<StevenK> Help? :-)
<StevenK> Right. Detached and added -U to screen.
<tseng> http://jerakeen.org/blog/2005/06/23/screen-irssi-utf8
<StevenK> I think I've sorted out screen. man irssi didn't help.
<tseng> either restart screen with -U
<tseng> or .ctrl-a:utf8 on. on your irc window
<tseng> first comment
<StevenK> Blah. irssi doesn't like term_type
<StevenK> Right. Can someone throw utf-8 at the channel?
<\sh> utf-8
<\sh> ,)
* StevenK pokes his tongue out at \sh.
<slomo> StevenK: 
<StevenK> Awww. It still doesn't work.
<StevenK> Ah, well. Off to bed for me.
<Yagisan> StevenK: 
<Yagisan> ah - to late. /me wonders why his connections has serious lag tonight
<StevenK> Yagisan: I saw it, but it didn't work.
<bmonty> good morning!
<slomo> hi bmonty :)
<bmonty> hey slomo
<\sh> re
<bmonty> would you guys mind taking a look at something I have been working on?
<bmonty> I have a bazaar archive at: http://www.montynet.org/bzr/ubuntu-spy
<slomo> what does it do? ;)
<tseng> 403
<bmonty> fixed it, sorry
<bmonty> it grabs a list of ubuntu mirrors and then you can test them to find the fastest one
<bmonty> eventually it will write your sources.list for you, but I don't have that working yet
<\sh> moins ogra
<ogra> *yawn*
<\sh> how are u testing ?
<ogra> \sh, thanks for the pics :)
<\sh> ogra: u found it on my gallery?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> already imported in my f-spot :)
<sivang> hey ogra
<sivang> ogra: how's stuff? :)
<ogra> tired
<sivang> ogra: working hard on edubuntu ?
<\sh> ogra: and btw...I owe me one bottle of bacardi gold :)
<\sh> ogra: http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/module-xml.parsers.expat.html
<\sh> s/I/you/
<ogra> hmm, indeed :)
<\sh> heheh
<sivang> \sh: what did you made a bet about?
<ogra> if xml was in the python std lib
<\sh> 13.5 xml.parsers.expat -- Fast XML parsing using Expat
<\sh> 
<\sh> New in version 2.0.
<sivang> ogra: but that's what "batteries included" is all about :)
<\sh> waiting now for my food
<\sh> bmonty: there is a stop button missing :)
<ogra> edubuntu is on slashdot :)
<bmonty> yeah, and there isn't any error checking yet :)
<\sh> ogra: woot?
<ogra> yup, yesterday ...
<ogra> nearly off the frontpage again
<\sh> yeah...have it
<\sh> do u see an increase of downloads? :)
<ogra> dunno, i have no stats handy
<bmonty> \sh: do you think it will be a usefull tool, ie is it worth finishing?
<sivang> bmonty: very cool
<\sh> bmonty: sure :)
<sivang> bmonty: I would use. I usually have troulbe finding a fast enough archive to get from, as my ISP has all sorts of routing problems.
<bmonty> working on it is making me a python fan :)
<bmonty> sivang: I was thinking there could be a CLI for it that could run from a cron job and then pop up something on the notification bar if it found a faster mirror
<herve> see you
<\sh> oh man
<slomo> ?
<\sh> ogra: someone gave 2 packets of shipcds to the gentoo guys..with the statement: "We have to get rid of them, because we don't need them anymore"
<ogra> and, do you think they'll convert now that they have free CDs ?
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ogra: no..they threw most of them away
<ogra> bah
<slomo> blasphemers
<\sh> ogra: well...I'll try to convince of the guys to send the rest of the cds to a school
<\sh> ogra: looks like this "manga youngster" was it
<siretart> crimsun: All hail the udev New World Order *g*
<seth_k> How to handle when: 1) Ubuntu and Debian have both made changes to a package 2) we don't want the Ubuntu changes anymore, but we need to make additional changes to the Debian package before it will run on Ubuntu
<seth_k> Do you just take the Debian package, make changes and add ubuntu1, and destroy the old Ubuntu changelog etc.?
<siretart> seth_k|away: no. in this case we request to sync the debian package, overriding ubuntu changes
<seth_k|away> siretart, but the debian package will not work OOB
<seth_k|away> it then needs additional changes to work
<siretart> seth_k|away: then i didn't get your question
<crimsun> 1) then it needs a merge; 2) we don't destroy changelogs
<seth_k|away> Ok, sorry ;)... package zsnes in Ubuntu is 1.400-1ubuntu1... in Debian is 1.420-0.1... we cannot sync directly from Debian b/c the build-deps need to be changed, but all the other Debian changes are OK and the Ubuntu changes are no longer needed except for the build-deps change
<seth_k|away> crimsun, but it wasn't on the MoM list which is why I was confused
<crimsun> it's a multiverse package
<seth_k|away> ah, seen
<crimsun> in any case, you'd merge it
<ajmitch> morning
<siretart> seth_k|away: ah, now I see
<siretart> seth_k|away: please file a malone bug, attach a debdiff to it, and let me know the bugnr
<seth_k|away> siretart, debdiff between debian's package and the changes needed for Ubuntu? Or do I need to do a wacky merge first?
<crimsun> yes, that sort of debdiff
<crimsun> 'morning, ajmitch
<siretart> seth_k|away: against the latest debian package please.
<seth_k|away> cheers siretart, will do right away. (thanks crimsun)
<lifeless> morning
<crimsun> 'morning
<ajmitch> hi lifeless
<siretart> morning lifeless, hi ajmitch!
<ajmitch> siretart: how's your weekend been? :)
<siretart> ajmitch: oh, okay
<siretart> ajmitch: have been struggeling a bit with an xbox
<ajmitch> ah.. :)
<siretart> done a few merges.. was okay
<siretart> ajmitch: how was your weekend?
<ajmitch> fairly quiet
<seth_k|away> siretart, here's the bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/zsnes/+bug/5367
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5367: zsnes: merge new debian version In: zsnes (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5367
<ajmitch> I went away, visited my parents
<seth_k|away> back to microbiology ;)
<siretart> seth_k|away: yes, looks fine.. testing it now
<seth_k|away> thanks siretart :) you're the best
<ajmitch> looks reasonable
<ajmitch> looks like scummvm built while I was away
<ajmitch> I guess I just have to spend a few hours testing it ;)
<siretart> hrhr
<crimsun> just as a heads-up, I need to tweak the timing for wpasupplicant since the new placement in if-pre-up.d is bound to have high variance across different chipsets and APs
<siretart> ajmitch: I recommend the game 'the dig'
<crimsun> so if the default conf doesn't work, please file a bug on Malone, thanks
<ajmitch> siretart: it works with scummvm?
<ajmitch> afaik there's just 2 that are packaged in universe
<siretart> ajmitch: it does
<siretart> ajmitch: but it is a commercial lucas arts game
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> which I don't have :)
<siretart> seth_k|away: ftbfs on amd64
<seth_k|away> siretart, it is i386 only as noted in the package
<seth_k|away> siretart, a large portion is written in i386 assembly
<siretart> seth_k|away: oh, sorry
<siretart> you're right. but the message is funny:
<siretart> seth_k|away: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5391
<Treenaks> 3
<Treenaks> oops
<siretart> no such file or directory
<ajmitch> :)
<seth_k|away> where are you seeing a no such file / directory error? The one I see is error: CPU you selected does not support x86-64 instruction set
<seth_k|away> which would be b/c it's i386 assembly, siretart
<siretart> b/c?
<StevenK__> because
<siretart> ah
<seth_k|away> sorry
<seth_k> I guess I'm not really away :)
<siretart> the errormessage is funny, though: chips/dsp1emu.c:1: error: CPU you selected does not support x86-64 instruction set
<StevenK> ajmitch: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/moin_1.3.5-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<ajmitch> how big?
<StevenK> siretart: Then it's a #error in the .c file
<StevenK> ajmitch: Eight Meg
<seth_k> siretart, yeah, b/c it's a funny program :) it's direct CPU assembly, not C++
<StevenK> It's a monster.
<siretart> jupp
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> StevenK: slow upstream there?
<seth_k> Merge the current debian/rules file with the Ubuntu one to make a hideous monster!" :D
<seth_k> gogo monsters
<ajmitch> morning jmg
<siretart> seth_k: you should get an email from katie in 2 mins
<StevenK> seth_k: I couldn't help it. :-)
<seth_k> ok
<seth_k> StevenK, we all need a little humour to help us through 8MB patches :D
<StevenK> ajmitch: I have no idea. I suspect the translations should be thrown to the Debian BTS, at which point we stop caring, and catch up at Dapper+1.
* StevenK grins.
<ajmitch> StevenK: want to file a bug, please? :)
<seth_k> siretart, oops, you misunderstood somewhere along the way. Before that debdiff is applicable, the newest package from Debian has to be synced in
<ajmitch> since we've still got a few weeks until UVF
<seth_k> Katie rejected the debdiff
<StevenK> ajmitch: When I get to work. I still need to look closely at the damn patch and see if it's necessary.
<StevenK> When is the UVF?
<siretart> seth_k: please forward me the reject
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
<ajmitch> siretart: probably needs new debian upload, with -S -sa
<siretart> ajmitch: aah. sure
<ajmitch> s/upload/orig.tar.gz/
<seth_k> forwarded to siretart at tauware dot de
<siretart> I forgot the orig.tar.gz, sure thing
<seth_k> yes, it needs the new debian orig
<siretart> seth_k: I'll reupload
<seth_k> ok :)
<siretart> my bad, sorry
<seth_k> no problem, I just appreciate you taking time to help
* seth_k will be hitting up #u-m-school as soon as it gets going
* StevenK buggers off to work.
* ajmitch hopes noone asks questions on saturday
* crimsun draws up a list of questions
<bmonty> should we start a wiki page to collect questions for ajmitch?
<siretart> bmonty: sure, why not?
<bmonty> siretart: I was joking :)
<seth_k> thanks again siretart :) katie is happy now
<ajmitch> bmonty: sure, then I'll know what to answer ;)
<siretart> seth_k: :)
<ajmitch> it's depressing reading the forums
<ajmitch> people who recommend to others that they build software from CVS, with --prefix=/usr
<seth_k> the forums are corrupt AND have bad information :P
<ajmitch> yeah
<siretart> :(
<seth_k> isn't somebody talking about the forums this Tuesday at the CC
<siretart> seth_k: I assume your question earlier has been cleared now, yes?
<seth_k> about the censorship issues going on, and the incompetent staff
<seth_k> siretart, yep :) all done
<siretart> seth_k: it is a bit trickier when debian and ubuntu have orig.tar.gz of same name, but different md5sums
<siretart> seth_k: but that wasn't the case here
<seth_k> right, because new upstream version
* seth_k needs to write all these rules down ;)
<ajmitch> StevenK: moin-1.3.5/debian/control.in.ubuntu
<ajmitch> ?
<ajmitch> looks interesting
* ajmitch was just using lsdiff to see what you'd touched
<mallox> hi..need the help please..
<mallox> how can I install from .bin file..?
<mallox> Im beginner..
<bmonty> mallox: you should ask that question in #ubuntu
<siretart> mallox: normally software is accompanied by a README. consult that or #ubuntu
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> what is it with people that decide arbitrarily that a bug should be major, with high priority?
<ajmitch> no wonder bugzilla needs editbugs permissions to change things :)
<Seveas> :)
<Seveas> http://blogs.gnome.org/view/ryanl/2005/12/04/0
<Seveas> clusterssh but better
<ajmitch> malone 583
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #583: reportbug: While sending a Bug report I got several errors-messages In: reportbug (Ubuntu), Severity: Major, Assigned to: <img alt="Linked to " src="/++resource++arrowRight.gif" />, Status: NeedInfo https://launchpad.net/bugs/583
<Seveas> I'll upload a package to REVU asap :)
<Seveas> ah crap
<Seveas> they changed malone again
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> that looks like a malone bug
<ajmitch> not an Ubugtu bug
<Seveas> eeeeeeeeeep
<Seveas> bugs get assigned to bugzilla :/
<ajmitch> screwy
<ajmitch> when you look at +viewstatus, it's assigned to MOTU
<mallox> asdf
<ajmitch> reportbug is hideously broken & in main
<mallox> hi..how can i instal .bin file?
<mallox> thx
<Seveas> mallox, read the README< ask in #ubuntu but NOT  in here
<ajmitch> mallox: we've told you twice here, and in another channel, that #ubuntu is the place to ask
<mallox> ok..sorry..
<mallox> have a nice time
<Seveas> ajmitch, I'm not even going to try to fix this one in Ubugtu
<Seveas> They should just have an xmlrpc interface
<Seveas> but anyway, time to package keyboardcast
<Seveas> segfault is segfaulting :)
<segfault> heh, sorry
<segfault> :P
<bmonty> hi minghua
<minghua> hi bmonty
* siretart discovers the wonders of debsign
<siretart> it has a parameter '-r' for remote signing..
<ajmitch> siretart: if only I'd known that at UDU
<siretart> ajmitch: :)
<siretart> this is really really handy..
<ajmitch> certainly
<bmonty> for the amd64 and ia64 buildd, if it can't find debhelper that means something is messed up with the buildd, right?
<bmonty> i'm looking at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/b/bayonne/1.2.15-1/
<siretart> bmonty: yes. don't worry, and wait for further build attempts
<bmonty> thanks
<Seveas> hmm, I never packaged something this fast
<Seveas> My keyboard is smoking :)
* ajmitch mutters about demanding users
<bmonty> he still hasn't answered you
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> I guess it's not that important after all ;)
<ajmitch> reading the debian BTS, elmo was the one who wanted it in debian contrib
<ajmitch> I don't feel like crossing elmo this week
<bmonty> there was a new version of zsnes uploaded for dapper this afternoon
<ajmitch> oh well
<ajmitch> we can;t stall the demanding users then
<bmonty> I'm wondering who told him to go to -devel and say that
<ajmitch> no idea
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-10
* tseng hopes for a working kernel
* \sh hopes to sleep actually one night...but this is not possible since montreal
<tseng> why not?
<\sh> if I would know, then I could change it...
<\sh> but I go to bed around 21:00 and get up around 00:00 and now I can't sleep..and I bet around 5:00 I'll fell asleep
<bmonty> isn't insomnia great?
<minghua> hi \sh, I am actually waiting for you. :-)  Would you please review and request two syncs:
<minghua> \sh: lmodern, bug #5151; and stardict, bug #5191
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5151: lmodern: merge new debian version In: lmodern (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5151
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5191: stardict: merge new debian version In: stardict (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5191
<\sh> minghua: u don't need to wait for me :) bmonty,tseng and others can request syncs as well :)
<\sh> minghua: i'll have a look this morning when I'm in the office
<minghua> \sh: thanks
<bmonty> minghua: for lmodern, I'm wondering if the ubuntu change to the build-deps was a typo :)
<minghua> bmonty: there was one time that a tightened deforma versioned dep. is needed, but not anymore
<minghua> bmonty: I think it was in hoary, but I wasn't involved with merging at that time, so I don't know details
<bmonty> minghua: yeah, but I don't see that an 0.8.11ubuntu2 version of defoma ever existed
<minghua> bmonty: oh
<minghua> let me check
<bmonty> I agree on the sync though
<minghua> bmonty: you mean it should be 0.11.8ubuntu2 intead?  yeah I agree
<bmonty> right
<minghua> bmonty: you became a MOTU in last CC meeting, didn't you?
<bmonty> bmonty: in absentia :)
<minghua> bmonty: :-D  late congratulations, then
<bmonty> thanks
<minghua> does anybody know why ubuntu doesn't have octave2.9 but only 2.1?
<minghua> do we still sync NEW packages from sid automatically?
<bmonty> back in a bit
<ajmitch> afternoon
<\sh> last cigarette and another attempt to sleep
<\sh> hmm...
<\sh> canonical is quite fast with the money..
<hub> hey \sh
<hub> \sh: tried to apply for a job at canonical?
<\sh> hub: ah well..only send my cv to mark
<hub> that would be cool
<\sh> hub: but they paid now the dinner expenses
<ajmitch> hey \sh :)
<\sh> moins ajmitch
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<minghua> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hiya minghua, how's it going?
<minghua> LaserJock: not bad, just finished two syncs and asked MOTUs to review
<minghua> LaserJock: took octave2.1 to merge just now
<LaserJock> saw that
<\sh> ajmitch: I'm just a bit on packaging holiday :) but from tomorrow on I'll rock again :)
<minghua> LaserJock: dapper doesn't have octave2.9 though
<LaserJock> minghua: why not?
<minghua> Hmm, they all said \sh is a 24/7 merging machine...  it seems not true after all
<minghua> LaserJock: no idea, I just asked here but no answers
<\sh> minghua: well...it's only a rumour...but no...\sh is just a normal human being :)
<minghua> LaserJock: And it seems not really important, as debian maintainer(s) still recommends 2.1
<minghua> LaserJock: for ordinary users, that is
<minghua> \sh: just kidding :-)
<seth_k> to whom would one talk to get the ubuntu/member cloak turned on for their nick?
<LaserJock> what does that do for you?
<seth_k> just masks your hostmask with @ubuntu/member
<Seveas> seth_k, that would be me
<seth_k> mind doing it for me, Seveas? Launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/people/seth (to prove I'm a member)
<Seveas> seth_k, will do
<Seveas> (takes a day or 2)
<seth_k> cheers Seveas, thanks
<seth_k> yeah, no worries
* ajmitch has been too lazy to choose which project to get a hostmask with
<Seveas> I can choose for you, but you'd be mad at me if I do that ;)
<bmonty> how does the hostmask work? is it just a vanity thing or does it do something else?
<ajmitch> bmonty: vanity, all is vanity
<Seveas> well, for me it is partially spam prevention
* seth_k too
<seth_k> it has my domain in it
<Seveas> *@my_hostname is a catch all mail address
<bmonty> well...I'm vain so could you add me to the list?
<Seveas> stupid provide
<Seveas> bmonty, only if you're a member
<seth_k> he's a MOTU iirc
<bmonty> Seveas: I am
<Seveas> bmonty, launchpad id please :0
<bmonty> bmontgom
<Seveas> hmm, you're in the development team, but are not a membet
<Seveas> odd situation
<Seveas> you should summarize your contributions on a wikipage and become a member
<ajmitch> Seveas: I'm sure he's a member, approved at a CC meeting
<Seveas> hmm
<bmonty> Seveas: I have a wiki page, maybe I messed something up on requesting teams?
<Seveas> then someone forgot to add him
<ajmitch> maybe someone forgot to add him to the LP team
<Seveas> ajmitch, do you remember at which CC meeting that was?
<thierry_> could anyone point me a wiki or a faq about keysigning, keys stuff... I simply don't understand what's a key, what's it's usage and why would anyone want to sign one....
<ajmitch> Seveas: nope :)
<ajmitch> Seveas: it wouldn't be hard to find though
<Seveas> thierry_, GnuPrivacyGuardHowto is a start
<bmonty> Seveas: I can send you the email dholbach sent me when they made me an MOTU if that helps
<seth_k> thierry_, a key proves you are who you say you are for written communication... Ubuntu uses them mostly to sign package change files, to prove that the package has been changed by a trusted person and hasn't been altered since
<Seveas> bmonty, MOTU isn't equivalent to member...
<bmonty> Seveas: ah, I thought they went with each other...maybe I'm not a member then
<ajmitch> Seveas: membership is a prerequisite for MOTUness
<seth_k> don't you have to be a member to be a MOTU?
<seth_k> yeah
<Seveas> ajmitch, well, he's no member yet :)
<Seveas> and there are several other MOTU for whom this is the case
<ajmitch> maybe on launchpad.. :)
<Seveas> :)
<Seveas> anyway, bmonty will be cloaked in a few days too
<bmonty> this would be the "Ubuntu Members" team, right?
<bmonty> Seveas: thanks
<LaserJock> isn't bddebian another example?
<bmonty> LaserJock: it appears so
<Seveas> he's an example alright, but of what... :)
<seth_k> yeah, he is
<seth_k> he's a MOTU but not a member on Launchpad
<bmonty> speaking of which...where is bddebian?
<seth_k> I dunno :(
<seth_k> haven't seen him in a long time
<bmonty> launchpad says I am a proposed member of Ubuntu Members
<ajmitch> bddebian is AWOL
<ajmitch> he dropped off after breezy release
<bmonty> didn't he get a new job?
<ajmitch>    Last Seen: 3 weeks 5 days (20h 18m 11s) ago
<ajmitch> that was pre-release, iirc?
<Seveas> AWOL?
<ajmitch> Seveas: absent without leave
<bmonty> ajmitch: pre-release or close to it
<bmonty> though..3 weeks really isn't that long of a time :)
<Seveas> 3 weeks was weeks after release...
<Seveas> it's dec. 5 already :)
<Seveas> (or dec. 4 if you're in america)
<bmonty> Seveas: you're right...
<bmonty> I bet if we started assigning bugs to him that it would get his attention :)
<Seveas> hehe
<seth_k> just do a quick assign-all-unassigned :)
<seth_k> when he gets 3000 bugs he'll come back
<bmonty> remind me not to piss off seth_k
<bmonty> :)
<Seveas> or to apply a hammer
<seth_k> bmonty, as long as you sponsor lots of my uploads I will stay happy ;)
<seth_k> j/k
* ajmitch is going to take off for a few weeks - people had better not assign any bugs ;)
<bmonty> seth_k: I can't upload yet :(
<Seveas> I can only upload to REVU :)
* ajmitch can only upload to a couple of places
<bmonty> hmm...debian, main, universe...yeah, just a few
<ajmitch> :)
<tseng> managing mailman lists all seperately is a major PITA
<tseng> i have to change my address in every ubnutu ml seperately despite being on the same page
<\sh> ajmitch: think about the 10th
<\sh> and I found a game...which is very addictive
<\sh> http://www.daimonin.net/index.php
<\sh> rogue a like game...but really mmorpg ,)
<\sh> and even playable on old computers
<ajmitch> \sh: the 10th? I've got to decide on a time
<ajmitch> suggestions are welcome - it'd probably end up being a bad time for US people
<\sh> ajmitch: yes please :) give me a time...there are hundreds who are waiting for your lecture
<ajmitch> & I've got to prepare.. sigh
<ajmitch> hundreds? I hope not
<\sh> ajmitch: well...if I get it right, some of the linuxchix will join us :)
<ajmitch> \sh: you need a real developer to give this talk then :)
<\sh> ajmitch: and then we will have jbailey to present cdbs :)
<\sh> ajmitch: nope..you will do it :)
<ajmitch> eek
<\sh> btw...we will enhance ubuntu-motu-school to ubuntu-school sometime :) for having "beginners lectures to unix/linux"
<ajmitch> right..
<\sh> there are a lot of things going on...when everything is setteled and I have a rough time schedule...you will have the most rocking announcement on te fridge
* ajmitch wonders if 21:00 NZDT (0800 UTC) is a reasonable time for saturday
<ajmitch> it depends on the target audience, whether they'd be alive :)
<ajmitch> since that's 3am on the east coast of the US
<ajmitch> and unnaturally early on saturday morning for europeans ;)
<\sh> make it 11 UTC :)
<ajmitch> midnight for me?
<ajmitch> I'd be dead
<ajmitch> since I expect it'd take 1-2 hours with questions
<\sh> ajmitch: ah come on...you are young :)
<ajmitch> not young enough :)
<\sh> got jblack for bzr lectures cool
<bmonty> I like ajmitch...but not enough to get up at 3AM :)
* bmonty hopes the lecture is logged
<ajmitch> \sh: maybe I can script it & get screen to replay it while I sleep ;)
<\sh> we will have some written sum-ups of those sessions...I'll try to convince anyone to write some small little pages
<\sh> ajmitch: provide a presentation :)
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> everyone can follow your speech..and read it again and again :)
<minghua> ajmitch: I have no problem with that if your screen can answer questions as well :-)
<ajmitch> minghua: that's the tricky part
<minghua> talking about sum-ups, is the summary for last lecture by \sh up online now?
<minghua> or at least logs?
<\sh> minghua: I'm missing kyral
<\sh> but I'm creating a presentation for that next week somehow...
<minghua> \sh: on the same/similar topic?
<\sh> yes
<minghua> great
<Kyral> hmm
<ajmitch> Kyral is here..
<Kyral> I've been here :P
<\sh> Kyral: the sum up of the patch and diff stuff..
<Kyral> eh?
* Kyral blinks
<ajmitch> yes
<Kyral> oh lol
<Kyral> thats on my laptop
<\sh> Kyral: you wanted to do a summarize :)
<seth_k> 21:00 NZDT = 2 am for me = no ajmitch for me :(
<ajmitch> seth_k: no kidding, I've got to find *some* suitable time
<Kyral> Sorry I've been punching data into a MySQL database by hand all day give my mind a few minutes to recover
<Kyral> \sh: This week is REALLY busy
<ajmitch> living in NZ (note, *not* .au) is difficult for timezones
<seth_k> yeah
<Kyral> I'm going into finals week
<\sh> Kyral: send me the log then :)
<seth_k> Kyral, me too :(
<Kyral> I was about to say that :P
<Kyral> and if anyone knows anything about automating things on the MySQL command line ping me
<\sh> mysql -u <user> -p -h <host> <database> < mysql.script?
* Kyral falls down
<minghua> I think I can stay up on 2 am for ajmitch's talk
<Kyral> I was wondering if I could shell script on MySQL
<\sh> Kyral: it's UNIX man :)
<Kyral> \sh: I am VERY new to MySQL
<Kyral> so mysql.script is just a standard bash script?
<\sh> Kyral: no..mysql.script is something mysql sql script...
<\sh> Kyral: but you can create this via shell
<\sh> script
<\sh> what do u need?
<raphink> ooo pretty active tonight :)
* raphink waves around :)
<Kyral> just things to save me from having to enter repetitive data all night
<\sh> i have only three hours left for sleep....
<\sh> Kyral: e.g.?
<Kyral> like I need to tell it "Okay, the next n records are going to have x value in y column"
<\sh> Kyral: and u have a list of the records in some other format?
<Kyral> nope
<Kyral> See if I was in a script I'd start a for loop at 0 and loop until n
<bmonty> Kyral: you could write a python script to generate all of the INSERT statements and then feed that to mysql
<Kyral> bmonty: I don't know Python
<Kyral> but can't I do that with Bash?
<\sh> Kyral: then do it in perl or shell
<ajmitch> Kyral: now is a good chance to learn, then
<bmonty> Kyral: or any other language that you like
<Kyral> and I'd use echo to tell MySQL the commands
<ajmitch> you could learn enough python in 3 hours to do this
* bmonty agrees with ajmitch 
<Kyral> bmonty: the only thing I'm proficient in right now is C++
<bmonty> more like 30 mins
<Kyral> I know I know enough Bash to get it done
<ajmitch> so use bash :)
<Kyral> I just need to know if I do something like echo <INSERT STATEMENT>
<bmonty> Kyral: I would make a file with all of the statements and then feed that to mysql
<bmonty> that way you can QA it first :)
<ajmitch> that's the usual way of doing it
<Kyral> gah but that way I have to write it....wait....or have a program write it for me
<Kyral> so just have each statement on each line...
<bmonty> can you see the lightbulb over Kyral's head?
<Kyral> write the program to make the file, use INFILE to populate the table from the file...
<bmonty> mysql will read each line as a seperate command
<Kyral> so I make sure to stick \n only where I want it :D
<Kyral> This just saved me like 3 days of work :D
<bmonty> *ouch* how big a table are you making?
<Kyral> My anime database :P
<ajmitch> probably not that large
<ajmitch> Kyral: sure, why would you enter this by hand?
<ajmitch> and why do you need to do it now?
<Kyral> because the Prof won't let us use anything but the commandline
<bmonty> Kyral: there is a C++ lib for mysql, why not use that?
<Kyral> and because its the backbone of my final project for the class which is due next Wednesday
<Kyral> there is?
<Kyral> so I could have the program do it all directly for me?
<\sh> there is DBD::mysql for perl,
<\sh> there is python-mysql
<Kyral> I don't know Perl or Python (Learning them over break)
<bmonty> there is bindings for almost everything
<\sh> Kyral: to be a good admin you need perl
<\sh> Kyral: or sed/awk
<Kyral> I know
* Kyral taps his copy of Linux In A Nutshell
<\sh> but you will get the help you need
<\sh> "Ubuntu School For Unix Beginners" will open soon :)
<Kyral> when tonight?
<\sh> na
<Kyral> bmonty: whats the lib called?
<\sh> Kyral: send the log to sh@sourcecode.de
<\sh> going now...good night :)
<bmonty> Kyral: libmyodbc
<Kyral> \sh I'll send it tomorrow
<bmonty> Kyral: libmyodbc
<bmonty> i think
<Kyral> MySQL ODBC Driver?
<bmonty> yeah, there is also libmysqlclient
<Kyral> Well, I'm gonna ask him if we can use that
<Kyral> He shot down PHPMyAdmin
<bmonty> I've only used the Java class, but those are the C bindings I believe
* bmonty is reflashing his WRT54G...cross your fingers!
<Kyral> ack..I almost forgot to put my name on the CC Agenda!
* Kyral goes to reformat his Wikipage
<Kyral> ping LaserJock
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> when listing Mailing List things on the Wikipage what is the best way to do it?
<LaserJock> Kyral: pong
<Kyral> in your packaging Guide
<Kyral> about Lintian
<Kyral> you should use -vi
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok, but I'm not sure where the packaging guide is going right now so you might have to tell me again
<Kyral> kk
* bmonty bricked his router
<ajmitch> uh oh :)
<ajmitch> can it be recovered?
<bmonty> I don't know yet
<LaserJock> bmonty: brick as in it dropped like a ton of bricks or you through a brick at it? :-)
<Lathiat> what router?
<Lathiat> wrt?
<bmonty> LaserJock: as in I have a wireless router that is as good as a brick
<bmonty> Lathiat: Linksys WRT54G v2.0
<Lathiat> bmonty: unless you did something relaly bad
<Lathiat> bmonty: you can almost always recover those
<bmonty> Lathiat: yeah...I think I messed up and the boot_wait got reset
<Lathiat> yeh you can still get back from that
<bmonty> trying to figure out how to get around that
<Lathiat> if you dont figure it out
<Lathiat> let me know and i'll find out
<bmonty> Lathiat: I'm trying to figure out how to get the tftp server to work again...any idea where that info it?
<ajmitch> hey Lathiat
<bmonty> ok, time to start shorting some pins on this thing :)
<Lathiat> hehe
<ajmitch> Lathiat: started thinking about yout LCA talk yet?>
<Lathiat> far too early for that :)
<ajmitch> far too early to start writing, anyway
<ajmitch> it's not the night before
<Lathiat> :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Ping
<StevenK> Crap. libsdl1.2 has been merged already.
* StevenK closes his merge bug.
<JohnnyMast> awww :(
<JohnnyMast> yeah that sucks
<bmonty> back in business!
<LaserJock> good
<JohnnyMast> good morning MOTU`s
<Kyral> anyone mind looking over my Wikipage?
<JohnnyMast> sure
<Kyral> wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisPeterman
<JohnnyMast> nice bug fix list
<bmonty> Kyral: nice page
<JohnnyMast> impressive :)
<JohnnyMast> this is mine https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> im thinkng about creating a group that can reverce file types
<JohnnyMast> to C
<JohnnyMast> or C++
<Kyral> bmonty: I'm going for Membership on Tuesday
<crimsun> chris, it would help to have a five- or six-word synopsis of the thread to the trailing edge of each Notable Forum Thread link so that the CC members can get an idea of the diversity of the threads at a high level
<JohnnyMast> Kyral me 2
<Kyral> crimsun: You mean just grab the Thread title?
<bmonty> Kyral: cool
<crimsun> Kyral: if that suffices, sure
<Kyral> anyone mind supporting me?
<crimsun> I personally would try to summarise
<crimsun> I'll be there; I'm vouching for Jordan anyhow, so sure
<Kyral> Yah I love how two of the MOTUScience team are going at once :D
<Kyral> ty ty crimsun
<Kyral> 9 AM EST right...
<bmonty> I'll be at work during that meeting :(
<Kyral> I'll be half-awake
* ajmitch won't be there
<JohnnyMast> ile be having coffie :D
<Kyral> Pepsi
<LaserJock> me too
<JohnnyMast> jold :p
<Kyral> now shower I need
<bmonty> I got my AP back up and running, and it is time for me to go to sleep before I break it again
<bmonty> good night everyone
<zakame> afternoon all :)
<LaserJock> evening
<ajmitch> hi
<crimsun> LaserJock: remember to ping me, please, thanks
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I will try
<viviersf> morning guys *yawn*
<zakame> hey viviersf
<crimsun> 'lo
<viviersf> i got whiplash
<viviersf> and i got tons of stuff to do :/
<ajmitch> viviersf: car crash?
<viviersf> nope lol
<viviersf> clubbing
<JohnnyMast> a whiplash from clubbing ?
<ajmitch> haha
<JohnnyMast> what do they say @ work about that ?
<viviersf> JohnnyMast, erm headbanging gives you whiplash
<zakame> viviersf: awww
<viviersf> and no1 else is in yet
<viviersf> since all the building gets done by me
<viviersf> im here earlier than the rest
<JohnnyMast> hehe
<JohnnyMast> ow okey :)
<Kyral> night all
<zakame> bye Kyral
<JohnnyMast> night :)
<JohnnyMast> hope you make it
<Kyral> so do I lol
<JohnnyMast> and my self
<JohnnyMast> some one removed me from the list
<JohnnyMast> of candidates so it was good i was checking
<LaserJock> get some rest Kyral ;-)
<JohnnyMast> he`s sleeping with one eye on #ubuntu-motu :p
<LaserJock> lol
<zakame> haha
<sladen> whereas some people just sleep with #ubuntu-motus!
<JohnnyMast> :)
<JohnnyMast> you should write a create #ubuntu-motu-Zzzz
<zakame> lol sladen :)
* zakame should get a usb stick, tsk tsk :/
<sladen> and do what...
<sladen> sleep with the USB stick?
<JohnnyMast> stick it up hahaha
<JohnnyMast> erm :|
<zakame> grab build-deps for lucene :( me's on a dialup
<zakame> I've would have just dragged my desktop to the local cafe, but 'tis raining mightily here in Daet
<zakame> JohnnyMast: LOL!
<JohnnyMast> can some one view my wiki as well to see if i make a chance tomorrow ?
<JohnnyMast> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnnyMast
<StevenK> ajmitch: Ping
<siretart> morning
<siretart> hey StevenK
<siretart> StevenK: I really think you are ready to join ubuntumembers. Can you attend the meeting tomorrow 1400 UTC?
<ajmitch> StevenK: yes?
<StevenK> siretart: Really?
<StevenK> siretart: I can, but it makes it 0100 local time.
<StevenK> ajmitch: (Do you agree with siretart?)
<StevenK> ajmitch: You were asking about debian/control.in.ubuntu in moin?
* siretart will be at work, but will try to attend to advocate StevenK
<StevenK> Whee.
<ajmitch> StevenK: I was just curious to see it there, I didn't get to look at the diff itself
<StevenK> Ah.
<StevenK> ajmitch: It's from Debian.
<StevenK> ajmitch: I couldn't make the debian/rules file from 1.3.5-1 go at all, so I ended up making a monster from 1.2.4-1ubuntu1 and 1.3.5-1
<ajmitch> heh ok\
<StevenK> ajmitch: Please look over it. :-)
* StevenK buggers off to pick up his wife.
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch what do you think about me ?, would i be ready for it ?
<bojan> morning!
<minghua> siretart: are you aware of http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/11/msg00016.html ?
<JohnnyMast> morning bojan
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: ready for what?
<JohnnyMast> ubuntu membership
<ajmitch> what have you done so far?
<JohnnyMast> lots of translations to dutch some bug fixes and suggested a logo
<JohnnyMast> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnnyMast
<ajmitch> you could try, you'd probably just get in for translations
<ajmitch> the rest probably isn't enough yet
<JohnnyMast> lets hope i do
<JohnnyMast> i like working for ubuntu and motu
<ajmitch> the CC like to see a sustained & significant contribution
* ajmitch will not be at the CC meeting
<JohnnyMast> well arnt bug fixes significant ?
<ajmitch> if you do more than 1 or 2
<JohnnyMast> i did 3
<JohnnyMast> well im fixing the first
<JohnnyMast> since some one asked me to make it better
<siretart> minghua: yes, I am aware of this. I actually wanted to include that link, but I didn't find it
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: some people here didn't get membership until they'd had quite a number of fixes uploaded
<minghua> siretart: I think it's a freetype bug, libcairo in debian had to add a workaround for it when it used the new API
<minghua> siretart: now it seems libcario in Debian is dropping the part that uses the new ABI in order to get into testing
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch alright well thanks any ways
<siretart> minghua: *shrug*. in either case, libcairo needs fixing in dapper
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: doesn't matter what I say, it's only the CC's vote that counts ;)
<siretart> because it definitly needs libfreetype from dapper
<JohnnyMast> yeah i know i faced them once already
<ajmitch> oh?
<ajmitch> what did they say to you?
<minghua> siretart: yeah...  I was complaining at the devel list as well.
<JohnnyMast> but they told me to come back when i did more
<siretart> minghua: aaah, now I understand
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: I see something back in may
* siretart now off to work. cu later
<ajmitch> have you gone back to the CC since then
<ajmitch> ?
<ajmitch> bye siretart
<JohnnyMast> wich was a good concultion, because i just saw ubuntu and signed up and i didnt do anything yet. The only projects i did was for my self
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch nope
<minghua> see you siretart
<ajmitch> we try & make sure that people have as good a chance as possible when going before the CC & TB
<ajmitch> since they inevitably ask for our opinion of your work
<JohnnyMast> and do you have an opinion about me ?
<ajmitch> on the MOTU side, there's not nearly enough yet
<ajmitch> I can't judge translations :)
<JohnnyMast> well we will see :)
<JohnnyMast> ile hope it works out
<ajmitch> hopefully :)
<JohnnyMast> i have seen people make it without a strong wiki
<ajmitch> yes, as long as they've had good contributions
<ajmitch> my wiki page is probably pretty bad at the moment
<ajmitch> actually my wiki page hardly mentions what I've done ;)
<JohnnyMast> yeah but the CC reads ur wiki dont they
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I've been a member for quite awhile now
<JohnnyMast> hmm well im fixing my pure-ftpd patch now
<JohnnyMast> and made it mode depend on xinetd OR inetd
<JohnnyMast> its about to finish
<JohnnyMast> do you have time to review my patch ? since we discussed it before together
<ajmitch> not right at the moment, sorry
<JohnnyMast> hmm okey
<JohnnyMast> btw packages fixed for dapper do they land in breezy as well or not because of dependentie issues ?
<ajmitch> not at all
<ajmitch> breezy is frozen
<ajmitch> only special cases get into breezy-updates
<JohnnyMast> aaah kk
<JohnnyMast> i c
* StevenK is still pondering signing up and attending the CC meeting tomorrow.
<minghua> StevenK: why not?  just because it's too late?
<StevenK> minghua: No. Because I think I haven't done enough.
* StevenK goes to take his dog for a walk.
<JohnnyMast> wow my debdiff is long ... while i made only some changes
<JohnnyMast> in 3 files
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch__> hi
<JohnnyMast> ok i have a question
<JohnnyMast> i was looking for the most current version of mythgame
<JohnnyMast> for a fx
<JohnnyMast> *fix
<JohnnyMast> it shows that its  not in dapper
<JohnnyMast> so i cant fix it ?
<sivang> morning all
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: you can package a new version (after you looked, if debian has it)
<JohnnyMast> well package search only shows mythgame in breezy but clicking "seatch for other versions of mythgame" showed the dapper version
<JohnnyMast> so dholbach its no need for that
<JohnnyMast> i answered my own question so it seems :)
<dholbach> ok, very good :)
<JohnnyMast> hehe
<JohnnyMast> hmm whats multiverse ?
<dholbach> non-free stuff
<JohnnyMast> its in there
<lucas> non-free non-main packages
<JohnnyMast> oki
* StevenK would like to know what happened to his pgadmin3 sync.
<ajmitch__> StevenK: it was requested by someone?
<minghua> StevenK: if you plan to apply for a member at the CC meeting after Tuesday's, I'm likely going to be with you :-)
<zakame> hey all :)
<StevenK> minghua: Ah. Well, I just added myself to this CC meeting.
<StevenK> ajmitch__: Indeed, \sh asked elmo.
<ajmitch__> ok
<siretart> StevenK: just in case, add yourself both to the launchpad group as well as the agenda on the wiki
<siretart> re, btw
<zakame> StevenK: go go go
<minghua> StevenK: good luck :-)
<dholbach> StevenK: nice to see that :)
<StevenK> siretart: Done btoh.
<StevenK> Er, both
<StevenK> minghua, zakame, dholbach: Thanks. :-)
<siretart> :)
<TheMuso> Is there anywhere that explains just what a merge is? I haven't yet been able to find a clear explanation.
<ajmitch__> taking changes debian has done, taking changes we've done, and smashing them together until they work
<TheMuso> I thought as much, but wasn't entreily sure.
<zyga> zakame: hi :-)
<zakame> hey zyga :) what's up?
<zyga> breakfast, job, pygadu :-)
<zakame> ooh!
<bojan> i'm running ubuntu on qemu and i have a problem with sudo pbuilder create --distribution breezy
<bojan>  E: failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/Release
<bojan>  pbuilder: debootstrap failed
<bojan> -> Aborting with an error
<lifeless> is your networking setup ?
<bojan>  -> cleaning the build env
<bojan> yes, there is no problem with the net
<lifeless> INSIDE qemu
<bojan> yes
<sivang> bojan: pbuilder is executed inside QEMU?
<sivang> bojan: under ubuntu, ofcourse
<bojan> sivang: right
<sivang> bojan: so there's probably something wrong with the network setup inside the chroot's pbuilder is trying to build in
<sivang> bojan: (this happened to me once when I set up my dchroot, and forgot to copy the resolve file, and /proc mount of stuff)
<bojan> but i don't have a chroot before sudo pbuilder create --distribution breezy, do i?
<zakame> nope, you're already inside qemu right?
<bojan> zakame: yes
<bojan> on the other side, if i do sudo pbuilder create --distribution breezy at home, on ubuntu directly, it says that he could not install all packages and that some of them have still the old version
<bojan> in both cases i followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto exactly
<dholbach> ARG, universe-bugs@ has a problem with being implicitly CCed
<dholbach> i have to manually approve posts again
<dholbach> this happens, when motu-reviewers or motu-mergers list strike
<Seveas> JohnnyMast, ping
<JohnnyMast> yes im here
<zakame> dholbach: awww
<Seveas> JohnnyMast, please stop adding yourself to the CC agenda
<Seveas> read wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto - Membership is a sign of recognition of a significant and sustained contribution
<JohnnyMast> The commants where not insplace
<Seveas> so you first have to make a contribution
<JohnnyMast> when was the last time you checked my wiki ?
* StevenK gives up and makes pbuilder-dapper a wrapper, instead of an alias.
<zakame> StevenK: eh? can't pdebuild?
<JohnnyMast> Seveas everthing is there
<Seveas> JohnnyMast, you have not yet made a sustained and significant contribution to Ubuntu
<JohnnyMast> links / text /descrptions
<Seveas> first of all you're here for only a few weeks
<JohnnyMast> yes i did
<Seveas> and second your real contribution to ubuntu is still almost nothing
<JohnnyMast> translations
<JohnnyMast> bug fixes
<JohnnyMast> soggested logo`s
<JohnnyMast> are you sure your checking my wiki ?
<Seveas> 3 bugfixes and a logo is not significant nor sustained
<Seveas> launchpad translations are impossible if you're not a member of the translation team
<Seveas> and you are not a member of it
<JohnnyMast> ok leave me on that list, is it up to you to remove me ?
<Seveas> I am trying to keep the meetings normal
<Seveas> you really should wait and contribute for a few more weeks uuntil it can be called sustained and significant
<Seveas> I don't think any motu will vouch for you at this point, and the -nl team neither will
<Seveas> so your membership application will just cost time
<JohnnyMast> well let it be
<Seveas> Find me 2 motu who will vouch for you and i'll take back all that I said
<ajmitch__> Seveas: I already said that the MOTU contributions aren't enough
<Seveas> but otherwise: don't waste our time
<Seveas> JohnnyMast, tip: if MOTU contributions will be part of your argumentation, always check with the motu whether they agree
<Seveas> and for the few translation suggestions: that's definitely not enough sp you need the MOTU to back you up
<JohnnyMast> Seveas then can you be so kind to give an example of a valid conribuntion ?
<zakame> JohnnyMast: love Universe, all will come in time ;)
<Seveas> exactly
<JohnnyMast> yes but an example
<Seveas> just stay in here, help out and try in a few weeks/months when your contribution is both sustained and significant
<ajmitch__> 20 merges or so might be a good start :)
<StevenK> Geez, I haven't even done 20.
<JohnnyMast> i want to learn merges
<ajmitch__> StevenK: I know :)
<Seveas> ajmitch__, ghe, there are 3 mergers on the CC agenda :)
<ajmitch__> Seveas: since merges is all we're doing at the moment in MOTU, it's not a surprise
<ajmitch__> StevenK: I haven't done 20 either
<ajmitch__> maybe 15
<Seveas> I have done 0 :)
<StevenK> Um. slides is my ... 12th, I think.
<Seveas> yep
<StevenK> With the time taken ranging from one hour to seven or more.
<Seveas> (according to your wikipage)
<ajmitch__> Seveas: lazy..
<minghua> does a sync count as a merge?
<ajmitch__> Seveas: were you planning to apply for MOTU at some point?
<StevenK> Yes.
<ajmitch__> minghua: well.. it's not really much work involved :)
<Seveas> ajmitch__, maybe, but I'm mainly doing support in #ubuntu{,-nl} and lead the dutch locoteam
<StevenK> A sync still takes me an hour, since I build, install and test the thing.
<minghua> ajmitch__: yeah, that's what I'm worrying about
<Seveas> I did upload a few things to REVU though and have some plans for more
<ajmitch__> Seveas: that's a start
<JohnnyMast> well okey Seveas , btw you requested the diff of pure-ftpd right ?
<minghua> ajmitch__: but I always try to get a merge if possible, so most of the merge work I did end up with syncs
<StevenK> ajmitch__: And don't make me beg. :-P
<ajmitch__> that's ok
<Seveas> JohnnyMast, a debdiff of the original and your xinetd changes
<zakame> is there going to be a revu day soon?
<ajmitch__> zakame: yeah
<StevenK> A sync is better. It means less work for Dapper+1, hopefully.
<ajmitch__> zakame: are you listed as a reviewer yet?
<dholbach_> zakame, ajmitch: who does the announce?
<ajmitch__> dholbach_: you can :)
<JohnnyMast> yep Seveas let me post it after  i walked the dog
<dholbach_> that's what i thought
<dholbach_> :-(
<dholbach_> i'll do it now
<dholbach_> which date?
<zakame> ajmitch__: not yet :( who should I ping?
<ajmitch__> dholbach_: if you want, I can..
<ajmitch__> dholbach_: did we decide on a date?
<Seveas> ajmitch__, and my latest hobby is bugzilla, I'm re-triagin all old bugs and have closed heaps of them :)
<dholbach_> ajmitch__: i'm fine with doing it
<ajmitch__> zakame: I'll see if I can put you in the reviewers group
<ajmitch__> dholbach_: we agreed on this coming weekend of 10th/11th, right?
<zakame> ajmitch__: thank you! :)
<dholbach_> ajmitch__: the only problem i see in motu-land, that we have a bad wow-we-can-do-it/we've-done-it ratio
<ajmitch__> zakame: if I can't, I'll ask sistpoty or siretart to
<dholbach_> anyone has a problem with review day on 10/11th?
<ajmitch__> nope
<ajmitch__> I'll run that motu school session the same day
<zakame> ajmitch__: sure, no prob :)
<dholbach_> i will ask the motu list, if they agree with 10/11th and i'll announce it on wednesday
<dholbach_> that should be enough
<ajmitch__> dholbach_: ok
<ajmitch__> dholbach_: what do you think of motu school time?\
<ajmitch__> is 0800 UTC saturday too early?
<dholbach> ajmitch__: sounds fine
<dholbach> that's 9:00 in germany
<dholbach> dunno how that suits everybody
<dholbach> make an announce/request-for-comments on ubuntu-motu@
<Seveas> the americans will hate it :)
<dholbach> let's try to detach from IRC
<ajmitch__> Seveas: it's 9pm for me
<StevenK> Hrm. MOTU School?
<ajmitch__> I can't have it too much later
<ajmitch__> StevenK: yeah, you should teach people stuff
<StevenK> How to merge stuff, etc?
* StevenK so isn't a good teacher.
<ajmitch__> the 1st session was how to use patch, diff, etc
<ajmitch__> and I've been coerced into showing people how to do a package from scratch
<ajmitch__> which I am not really ready for yet :)
<ajmitch__> zakame: login to revu, you should be a reviewer now
* StevenK remembers getting shown that.
<ajmitch__> I'm glad you remember
<ajmitch__> since I haven't been shown ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch__: would you mail ubuntu-motu@ if you want to have comments for the time?
<ajmitch__> dholbach: sure
<dholbach> cool
<zakame> ajmitch__: ok, will try that later, Ill be movin' :)
<ajmitch__> cool :)
<StevenK> ajmitch__: It was a stupid little package called 'tractorgen'
<StevenK> A'la cowsay
<ajmitch__> heh
<ajmitch__> I'm thinking of doing a package I maintain
<ajmitch__> since I know the general problems that might arise with it
<ajmitch__> one that hasn't had an upload for a year or so
<dholbach> ubuntu-motu has 83 members, universe-bugs 37
<dholbach> :)
<StevenK> I can probably pick random perl module off CPAN.
<StevenK> (My qa page will tell you why. :-)
<ajmitch__> yes, I've seen yours :)
<ajmitch__> mine is a simple C program
<StevenK> Which reminds me, I so need to O/request removal for python-gendoc.
<ajmitch__> GNU maintainer, uses autoconf, automake
<ajmitch__> you don't use it?
<ajmitch__> or it's so badly obsolete now?
<StevenK> python-gendoc? Right, and right again.
<StevenK> I need to see if anyone actually uses it.
* ajmitch__ had never heard of it
<siretart> ajmitch__: whats about me?
<ajmitch__> siretart: sorry, was doing some revu maintenance on tiber :)
<TheMuso> Reading through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge I don't quite understand what is required: Title: <sourcepackage-name>: merge new debian version - I don't understand what the new debian version bit at the end of the line is supposed to mean. SOme help would be appreciated, thanks.
<ajmitch__> I got it done successfully
<ajmitch__> TheMuso: the text remains like that
<TheMuso> I have also tried to search for packages that have been merged in malone and can't find bugs of a similar title.
<StevenK> Blah. 470 people have it installed, according to popcon
<ajmitch__> TheMuso: I'll show you an example..
<ajmitch__> malone 5000
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5000: cmfsin (Ubuntu) - zope-cmfsin: merge new debian version In: zope-cmfsin (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5000
<StevenK> TheMuso: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/slides/+bug/5377
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5377: slides: merge new debian version In: slides (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5377
<StevenK> Yeah, thanks Ubugtu.
<ajmitch__> 5000 is just far more memorable :)
<StevenK> How did you manage #5000? :-P
<ajmitch__> I filed a batch of about 30 at once
<StevenK> Ah.
* ajmitch__ grabbed all the zope packages on the merge list
* StevenK likes to work on one merge at a time.
<siretart> ajmitch__: no problem
<ajmitch__> I grabbed all those that I knew I'd touch
<StevenK> ajmitch__: Did you look at moin yet, or does it scare you? :-)
<ajmitch__> it scares me a lot
<StevenK> Oh, bugger. I didn't file a bug in the BTS.
<ajmitch__> heh
* StevenK tries to think of what he's used python-slides for.
<StevenK> I so wrote a script that uses it.
<JohnnyMast> Seveas, ping
<TheMuso> The way those bugs are titled doesn't match the way it is mentioned on the wiki page as far as I can tell.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I grabbed lpbugs from bzr - it does all this for you.
<ajmitch__> TheMuso: they do match
<ajmitch__> Ubugtu just reports all the other fields as well
<TheMuso> Sorry, was looking too far down the page.
<TheMuso> I have noticed that the bugs that were mentioned were from those who had upload privs. I understand that I have to put my name in as the person who is going to do the merge. What do I have to do to get it reviewed/submitted?
<ajmitch__> you reassign it to motureviewers
<TheMuso> And what about the merge stuff itself?
<ajmitch__> at least I understand that is the new practice
<ajmitch__> hm?
<ajmitch__> we'd review a debdiff that you'd put on launchpad
<ajmitch__> plenty of merge bugs on launchpad are done without upload privileges
<TheMuso> uh ok.
<JohnnyMast> i wish there was better docs on merge
<JohnnyMast> i still dont get it
<JohnnyMast> bug fixing isnt so hard
<ajmitch__> there's not much that can be documented apart from normal packaging procedure
<ajmitch__> merging just requires that you understand that changes that have been made
<StevenK> TheMuso: I don't have upload rights, and I file bugs.
<StevenK> And can package stuff into .debs
<TheMuso> What are the debdiff files in the ongoing-merge package directories for then? They are not mentioned in the REPORT files.
<JohnnyMast> mege is repacking new versions of a released version from ubuntu to debian
<JohnnyMast> ??
<ajmitch__> JohnnyMast: merging is bring in changes that debian have made, including new upstream versions
<JohnnyMast> ah + repacking ofcource
<ajmitch__> repacking?
<JohnnyMast> yes as you aply`ed the changes
<ajmitch__> ?
<ajmitch__> please explain what you mean :)
<JohnnyMast> well
<JohnnyMast> i made the changes
<JohnnyMast> and do i add the debdiff to the bug as well ?
<ajmitch__> yes..
<JohnnyMast> aaah
<JohnnyMast> bingo
<JohnnyMast> do i have to rebuild a new deb from the source or download the new version from debian and add the ubuntu versions
<ajmitch__> whatever works :)
<ajmitch__> MoM provides debdiffs for you
<ajmitch__> that already have the debian changes & the ubuntu changes merged
<ajmitch__> at least a best-effort that is done by a script
<JohnnyMast> oooh nice
<ajmitch__> sometimes I'd grab the debian source & apply ubuntu changes that still apply manually
<ajmitch__> but not often
<JohnnyMast> ahh that sounds interesting
<JohnnyMast> but how about the versioning ?
<ajmitch__> what about it?
<JohnnyMast> is it the same as with bugs ?
<ajmitch__> you follow the normal versioning
<ajmitch__> any ubuntu changes get an ubuntuX suffix
<JohnnyMast> because suppose you have version 1.0.0 in ubuntu
<JohnnyMast> like it was old
<ajmitch__> so debian 1.2.3-4 becomes 1.2.3-4ubuntu1
<TheMuso> I may come back to it again later. I am rather confused, and a little frustrated. Thanks for all your help so far.
<JohnnyMast> then the maintainer released 1.3.0
<JohnnyMast> and i have to merge that
<dholbach> TheMuso: what goes wrong?
<ajmitch__> you mean, ubuntu has 1.0.0-1ubuntu1, debian has 1.3.0-1?
<JohnnyMast> yes
<JohnnyMast> exactly
<ajmitch__> then we'd get 1.3.0-1ubuntu1 if there are changes to keep
<ajmitch__> which is what the merged.debdiff has as versioning from MoM
<JohnnyMast> how does that MoM work ?
<ajmitch__> black magic
<ajmitch__> & patching
<JohnnyMast> link me :)
<ajmitch__> it grabs the common ancestor of the ubuntu & the new debian version, and does a 3-way merge, as I understand it
<ajmitch__> and then does some magic to rearrange the changelog
<ajmitch__> I don't have any adequate links, sorry :)
<JohnnyMast> is it a own written stript or is it a universe package ?
<ajmitch__> script
<ajmitch__> I haven't seen the source myself, though it's probably available
<JohnnyMast> MoM
<JohnnyMast> hmm
<JohnnyMast> should not be so hard to create ur self
<ajmitch__> no
<ajmitch__> but why duplicate what is written?
<ajmitch__> I was going to write my own, but I decided that I didn't care about it quite that much ;)
<JohnnyMast> well since i dont see it amongs the packages and you dont have it
<JohnnyMast> and btw it was just an idea :)
<dholbach> siretart: could you look at the mail header of one of the reviewers-mails?
<dholbach> siretart: it implicitly mentions universe-bugs@, which seems problematic
<siretart> dholbach: I subscribed universe-bugs to the motureviewers@tauware.de
<dholbach> siretart: the problem is the implicitly mentioning
<dholbach> universe-bugs@ is not in CC/To
<dholbach> which mailman/mailserver/whoever doesn't like
<siretart> oh. hm
<dholbach> so i have to manually approve those mails
<dholbach> there were not that many yet
<ajmitch__> ouch
<dholbach> just as a headsup
<siretart> dholbach: could you whiltelist motureviewers in mailman?
<dholbach> universe-bugs is unmoderated
<dholbach> that's not the problem
<siretart> dholbach: it is moderated for non reviewers
<dholbach> ?
<siretart> dholbach: you can whitelist people in mailman under 'sender-lists'
<dholbach> universe-bugs has no restrictions who posts to it
<siretart> but you say you have to manually approve it
<dholbach> To/CC/BCC are fine
<dholbach> look at the header again
<siretart> hm
<siretart> I will after lunch, okay?
<siretart> the ppl are going now
<dholbach> take your time
<dholbach> as i said, it's not ultra urgent
<dholbach> and thanks a lot
<siretart> ok. will look into it
<TheMuso> dholbach: Just trying to get my head around the merge process, and am getting a little confused by the various files found in the directory of the package that I am looking into merging, i.e the debdiffs in particular, as they are not mentioned in the REPORT file.
<StevenK> TheMuso: debdiffs are just a patch file with a different extension. And generated by a different tool, to boot.
<TheMuso> StevenK: I am aware of that, but what use are the debdiff files inside the directory? The report explains what the other files are for, but not the debdiffs.
<minghua> TheMuso: if the debdiffs are generated from the currect versions, they show the (previous) ubuntu changes, the debian changes since last merge, and the automatic merges
<StevenK> TheMuso: For completeness' sake, I suspect.
<StevenK> ajmitch__: Can you request a sync of slides. It builds fine, installs fine, and works with both python2.3 and python2.4
<JohnnyMast> is some one working on pure-admin ?
<StevenK> pure-admin isn't a binary package name.
<TheMuso> Is anybody working on partimage?
<JohnnyMast> i want to do my first merge
<TheMuso> Before I try and take the plunge to do a merge?
<JohnnyMast> TheMuso not me
<StevenK> TheMuso: It's marked on http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new as Unassigned, so go for it.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I'd suggest you file a bug in launchpad before working on it, just so someone else doesn't duplicate your work.
<TheMuso> StevenK: I saw that, just double-checking.
<TheMuso> Ok.
<ajmitch__> hi dredg
<dredg> howdy
<JohnnyMast> but pureadmin is a package :)
<StevenK> JohnnyMast: Ah. The lack of dash is important.
<JohnnyMast> yeah well its odd because the rest in pure is dash seperated
* StevenK waves at \sh.
<StevenK> s/at/to/
<minghua> \sh: got enough sleep?
<\sh> no
<StevenK> You can never get enough sleep.
<TheMuso> Another question. The only dropped patch hunk for the package I am working on appears to be a change that is in the Ubuntu package included in that directory already. Where do I go from here?
<StevenK> TheMuso: If you have a look at the _merged.patch, you'll notice that the only change is the changelog.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I'd suggest you build the stock Debian package in a dapper chroot, install it and test it.
<TheMuso> Ok
<ajmitch__> morning \sh
<StevenK> TheMuso: If it doesn't require any changes, then it's a sync (which a MOTU needs to request), not a merge.
<StevenK> Speaking of requesting a sync.
* StevenK flutters his eyelashes at ajmitch__.
<raphink> hi there :)
<TheMuso> Does one assign the bug after it has been added?
<StevenK> Mine are assigned to motumergers, with myself subscribed.
<TheMuso> Yes but do you have to do that after the bug is added?
<StevenK> If you used lpbugs, no.
<TheMuso> How do I know if I am using that?
<StevenK> Well, how did you file the bug? lpbugs is a script you run.
<siretart> dholbach: ok I'm back now
<TheMuso> Where does one get the script?
<StevenK> Use bzr to checkout from http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/
<TheMuso> Where can one find a quick rundown on how to check out repositories? I remember reading it ages ago, but can't remember.
<ajmitch__> bzr branch  http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/
<ajmitch__> the bzr version in dapper (and possibly breezy) should be recent enough
<TheMuso> Ok thanks.
<slomo_> good morning everybody :)
<slomo_> siretart: ping?
<siretart> slomo_: pong
<siretart> morning, Sebastian
<dholbach> hey slomo_
<dholbach> slomo_: did you ever manage to let thoggen encode a *full* movie? :)
<slomo_> siretart: about mplayer... i think we have to get a cvs snapshot... i tried to incorporate a newer ffmpeg to fix some problems this weekend and gave up now... it compiles but doesn't work :( what do you think?
<slomo_> dholbach: sadly, no... :( it stops at some point for you?
<dholbach> slomo_: yes
<dholbach> using full memory and full swap
<slomo_> dholbach: i've already written a bugreport to upstream but it seems like my mail disappeared...normally he answers ~1 day later... i'll resend it later
<dholbach> (1,5g total)
<dholbach> yeah, same here
<dholbach> apart from that, it rocks
<dholbach> it's nice, it just works :)
<slomo_> yes... only theora is a bit slow with encoding ;)
<dholbach> i could live with that, if it'd work
<slomo_> dito
<slomo_> i'll resend the mail now in the time i wait for siretarts answer ;)
<dholbach> merci beuaoucp
<slomo_> *sigh* evolution freeze
<ajmitch__> ah, 1001 zope merges
<ajmitch__> at least they'll all be easy enough
<ajmitch__> actually it's only 40 assigned to me ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch__: DO IT! :)
<ajmitch__> dholbach: yeah, I've done 1, most of them are QA group orphaning the package
<ajmitch__> & random debconf changes which we don't use anymore
<dholbach> sounds like serious updates we should get in :)
<ajmitch__> oh yeah
<dholbach> good to have you working on that serious stuff
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch__> haha
<ajmitch__> hey I uploaded scummvm today
<slomo_> what is zope btw? ;)
<ajmitch__> that's serious ;)
<dholbach> scummvm is
<dholbach> ;)
<dholbach> no doubt
<ajmitch__> slomo_: pure uncut crack
<ajmitch__> slomo_: hint, launchpad uses zope 3 ;)
<slomo_> ok, so it's something powerful ;)
<ajmitch__> it's a massive python web app framework
<ajmitch__> & I mean massive :)
<ajmitch__> these 40 packages are zope products, which plug in to extend functionality in some way
<ajmitch__> all done in python
<siretart> slomo_: you know mplayer way better than me. I know that the mplayer guys are crazy with their release, so I have no problem in taking a cvs snapshot
<siretart> zope is really cool crack: a really good free and scalable application server for python applications
<ajmitch__> dholbach: sorry if I take all the easy merges ;)
<siretart> the ubuntu website is also zope, more specific: plone, which is a zope app
<dholbach> ajmitch__: don't worry
<JohnnyMast> guys i still dont get the merges
<slomo_> siretart: ok, the biggest problem will be to get a somewhat stable revision... i'll try to get one later, otherwise on wednesday
<ajmitch__> my poor brain can't handle any more ;)
* ajmitch__ will probably take a few of the remaining python merges
<slomo_> siretart: i should've counted the hours i'm now already working on mplayer ;)
<JohnnyMast> do i have to asign a merge to me as like a bug ?
<ajmitch__> JohnnyMast: no, not to you
<ajmitch__> JohnnyMast: use the lpbugs.py script
* ajmitch__ will grab those merges when the script is working, hopefully tomorrow ;)
<JohnnyMast> :|
<JohnnyMast> where ?
<ajmitch__> JohnnyMast: see above, where we showed TheMuso
<JohnnyMast> ooh i see
<JohnnyMast> ty
<slomo_> dholbach: uh oh... on the thoggen mailinglist are millions of breezy bugreports =) i wonder why we didn't get a single one in malone
<dholbach> wow
<dholbach> there were some
<dholbach> like 2-3
<siretart> slomo_: I see.. hm
<slomo_> dholbach: it would be good if the owner of the latest changelog entry and the maintainer could be mailed if their address is registered in LP when a bug on their product is filed ;)
<TheMuso> Ok once I have identified what the problem is in a dropped hunk for a merge, whats the next step? Do I modify the dropped hunk, and patch it in somewhere and then debdiff the debian and Ubuntu versions?
<slomo_> siretart: but np, i'll do it :)
<slomo_> siretart: i advocated your mplayer-skin package
<siretart> slomo_: cool :)
<siretart> slomo_: it was rather a proposal on a package, your mplayer package could depend on
<siretart> slomo_: I think we should upload mplayer-skins together with your mplayer package
<slomo_> siretart: i'm already depending on it locally ;)
<siretart> and it does already work? cool :)
<slomo_> in fact i didn't try it yet... i used the nogui package for my tests :P
<slomo_> but i'll try later
<siretart> hehe
<siretart> I think it should
<slomo_> i see no reason why it shouldn't work :) only change the default skin to blue
<siretart> thats just a symlink, no big thing
<slomo_> yes
<siretart> hey jdong_
<jdong_> hey siretart
<slomo_> hi jdong_ :)
<jdong_> are there any devs here familiar with kompose?
<jdong_> I'm trying to do the unthinkable....
<jdong_> run Kompose under GNOME
<jdong_> everything works SURPRISINGLY well (passive screenshots and all)
<Gloubiboulga> hi
<jdong_> except the initial draw... the background is not painted
<jdong_> so you see traces of all the old windows lying around
<jdong_> HOWEVER, if you press the hotkey TWICE, the background color draws in correctly
<siretart> jdong_: have you tried in in a dapper environment?
<jdong_> siretart: no; would it be any different?
<jdong_> siretart: I did try backporting Kompose/dapper but it did no good
<siretart> jdong_: well. you could see if it works in dapper. without that test, there is no point in backporting it at all
<siretart> that is, without having a working version in dapper, there is no point
<jdong_> kompose works very well under KDE, Dapper or Breezy
<jdong_> it's just under GNOME, the background color does not draw in
<jdong_> what's supposed to draw is the background wallpaper
<jdong_> I'm just wondering if the KDE fn for getting the root pixmap doesn't work under GNOME?
<jdong_> (I'm not a fluent KDE or GNOME programmer....)
<jdong_> so is there a more universal way of getting a root pixmap rather than the KDE API?
* jdong_ considers the lazy way.... double-trigger any given hotkeys :P
<siretart> sorry, never tried kompose
<slomo_> jdong_: what do you mean with root pixmap?
<jdong_> slomo_: background wallpaper
<jdong_> slomo_: Kompose grabs the wallpaper and uses it as its full-screen background image
<slomo_> jdong_: that's nothing GNOME/KDE specific afaik
<jdong_> slomo_: I believe unless my memory fails me that kompose calls a KDE function to do so
<jdong_> slomo_: I thought there has got to be an X11 API to accomplish that
<jdong_>  desktopBgPixmap->loadFromShared( pixmapName(currentDesktop) );
<jdong_> ^^^ looks pretty KDE specific to me :)
<jdong_> komposeglobal.cpp
<zakame> evening all
<zakame> ajmitch: thanks for adding me as reviewer :)
<slomo_> hi zakame
<zakame> hi slomo_ :)
<slomo_> hm, when a non-motu prepared a debdiff for a merge the bug must be assigned to the motu reviewers team?
<zakame> yup, and that's what I'm still doing ;)
<mpathy> Hi There
<zakame> hey mpathy :)
<mpathy> I am searching lighttpd in the repository.. Is it possible that it isnt there *wondering* :)
<mpathy> zakame: hi :)
<zakame> mpathy: I'm still working on it :( I was quite busy in past, contributing to merges
<zakame> though I would very much appreciate if anyone can help in the packaging
<Kyral> lighttpd?
<mpathy> Kyral: Its like apache but more lightweight :)
<Kyral> ah
<mpathy> Kyral: The right thing for my ancient Server at home ;)
<mpathy> Kyral: And also my second choice on a big server if there wouldnt be Apache
<Kyral> Apache > all
<zakame> a light httpd
<mpathy> zakame: Great to hear that you are working on it
<mpathy> zakame: Because its a great choice if you havent the ressources on a server. And it works fast with fastcgi
<zakame> mpathy: :-) Because of you, I'm now inspired to working on it now :-)
<JohnnyMast> guys im having this problem with lpbugs.py
<JohnnyMast> http://pastebin.com/449485
<mpathy> zakame: :)
<mpathy> zakame: I not really a programmer, but, can I help you?
<TheMuso> Where do I have to apply changes to a package where the only dropped hunk has to do with different package names in ubuntu to Debian?
<zakame> mpathy: sure! :) you could test lighttpd once it hits REVU :-)
<mpathy> zakame: because I think thats really the next best option for a web server. all other alternatives in the repository arent that great.
<mpathy> zakame: okay! how can I get a reminder when that happens?
<zakame> mpathy: yup, that's why I was gung-ho to work on it at the first place... there was already someone in Debian who's supposed to be working on packaging it, but it has been stalled :(
<zakame> mpathy: are you subscribed to lighttpd-users?  If so I'll announce there, so other people who are also on Ubuntu can test it as well
<mpathy> no, I'm such a newbie that I didnt get mailing list managed in my mail client so I only have 1-2 subscribed *gg*
<mpathy> zakame: I will visit the revu page frequently, instead
<zakame> mpathy: awww :( ok, just keep an eye out for it, then :)
<JohnnyMast> can some one help me with lpbugs.py ?
<lucas> JohnnyMast: wait 1 min
<lucas> looking at it
<JohnnyMast> ok
<lucas> have you tried using "-n" instead of --new ?
<lucas> maybe it's just a bug in the option parsing code
<lucas> erm
<JohnnyMast> yep
<lucas> what does "apt-cache showsrc hula" says for you ?
<slomo_> -n works ehre
<slomo_> here
<lucas> do you have some Sources urls in your /etc/apt/sources.list ?
<JohnnyMast> it shows nothing
<lucas> ok, that's the problem
<zakame> welcome back all :D
<lucas> grep -E "^deb-src" /etc/apt/sources.list
<lucas> ?
<JohnnyMast> 3 reps
* zakame yay, I'm almost done d-l'ing lucene's build-deps
<lucas> well, maybe you should apt-get update then
<lucas> do other apt-cache shows work ?
<lucas> showsrc I mean
<JohnnyMast> http://pastebin.com/449498
<lucas> you need sources lists for universe too
<JohnnyMast> i always do apt-get source when i need src
<lucas> you only have main & restricted
<JohnnyMast> whats the ded-src for universe ?
<zakame> erm, I really think lpbugs shouldn't try to use the installed deb-srcs, but try to verify src from packages.u.c ... then again, that would be slow :(
<zakame> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper/universe
<JohnnyMast> ty
<zakame> s#dapper/universe#dapper universe#
<JohnnyMast> added
<lucas> then apt-get update, and it should work
<JohnnyMast> ok
<zakame> drop the last slash
<JohnnyMast> updating ...
<JohnnyMast> w000t !
<raphink> :)
<JohnnyMast> works :)
<TheMuso> JohnnyMast: Good to hear.
<zakame> JohnnyMast: cool!
<JohnnyMast> jeej jeeej jeeej :D
<raphink> would any of you find a tool like this useful ? http://raphink.myftp.org/pbuilderlist/
<raphink> (this is a tool for lazy devs ;))
<mpathy> zakame: got another tester who also uses the debian builds in ubuntu. his nickname is housetier
<raphink> let me know your opinion (on the idea, the script being very basic so far)
<raphink> bbl
<zakame> mpathy: ooh! that's good :)
<JohnnyMast> hmm guys if the merge report doesnt show up in malone or email
<JohnnyMast> could it be my emaiil settings are wrong and i have to retry it ?
<JohnnyMast> (using lpbugs.py)
<zakame> JohnnyMast: er prolly it hasn't reached malone yet, have you used your own smtp
<JohnnyMast> yeah smtp.rosiello.org
<JohnnyMast> i dont know how long this normaly takes
* zakame grok's apache2's debian/rules for some inspiration :/
<zakame> hi Fuddl
<Fuddl> hi zakame
<JohnnyMast> uhmmm guys
<JohnnyMast> question
<JohnnyMast> im trying to merge hula
<JohnnyMast> but the src dir on ubuntu contains a tar.gz file in it
<JohnnyMast> the debian version has the src
<JohnnyMast> i dont know what to do now
<zakame> JohnnyMast: er have you tried building the ubuntu version?
<JohnnyMast> no i just wanted to contact this place before i do something wrong
<JohnnyMast> shall i show the differances of the dirs on pastebin ?
<zakame> go ahead
<JohnnyMast> ok hold on
<JohnnyMast> http://pastebin.com/449546
<zakame> checking
<JohnnyMast> oki
<zakame> hm debian's newer, so try building that first
<zakame> and if it builds and works fine without ubuntu changes, you can mark this as pending sync
<JohnnyMast> bebian builds
<JohnnyMast> so i can extract the source and place it in hula-0.1.0+svn162
<JohnnyMast> and build it from there
<zakame> hm hula doens't have a MoM, strange
<JohnnyMast> it has
<JohnnyMast> and still unasgined
<raphink> anyone wants to give me their opinion on a script?
<zakame> and according to MoM logs hula doesn't even need a merge/sync, since it's not modified in Ubuntu
<JohnnyMast> oooh
<JohnnyMast> well i took it from revu
<zakame> then again, looking at an `apt-cache showsrc hula` in my breezy chroot shows a change :(
<zakame> hm lemme check the changelog
<JohnnyMast> last changed for hoary
<JohnnyMast> 8 april 2005
<JohnnyMast> debian has standards version 3.6.2 ubuntu has 3.61
<JohnnyMast> i dont know what that has to do with it
<JohnnyMast> so what do i do now zakame ?
<zakame> er the last change was from ogra, and it only adds a warning to the metapkg's desc
<ogra> err, nope ?
<ogra> i didnt make a change to hula ...
<JohnnyMast> that was 8 apr
<zakame> er, yes? http://packages.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/h/hula/hula_0.1.0+svn162-2ubuntu1/changelog
<ogra> might be that i made a mistake while changing the signature and overwrote the real name, but it should be herzi ...
<ogra> hmm, at least i cant remember touching it at all ...
<JohnnyMast> so i dont do anything now ?
<nenolod> i'm interested in packaging some of the software i maintain for ubuntu :p
<JohnnyMast> nenolod cool
<nenolod> so, how do i go about doing this (and getting it into universe, for that matter)
<zakame> hm, at any rate, its a small change, JohnnyMast could probably put this back in manually :)
<raphink> nenolod: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<nenolod> excellent
* nenolod makes a note to check that when he gets home
<raphink> nenolod: do you know how to package already?
<zakame> JohnnyMast: or drop it altogether, if you think hula's ready for primetime
<nenolod> raphink: i've built .deb's before
<nenolod> ;p
<raphink> ok good :)
<JohnnyMast> yes but what do i do ? created the deb the debian way ?
<zakame> nenolod: you can start by going to MOTUGettingIntoIt :D
<zakame> JohnnyMast: yes, you touch the debian/control to put back the previous change in, make a new entry in debian/changelog, then debuild and see :)
<JohnnyMast> the change that ogra made ?
<zakame> yes
<JohnnyMast> ok
<zakame> hello Seveas :)
<JohnnyMast> zakame thanks for your help
<zakame> JohnnyMast: no prob :)
<raphink> Riddell, siretart, dholbach are you around?
<dholbach> raphink: yes
<raphink> :)
<raphink> dholbach: will you be at the CC tomorrow?
<dholbach> yes
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> I'm presenting myself for membership :)
<raphink> so I need support :)
<zakame> raphink: go go go! :D
<raphink> :)
<raphink> huhu
<raphink> zakame, dholbach : do you think something like this http://raphink.myftp.org/pbuilderlist/ could be useful as a motu tool?
<raphink> (just a kind of mockup in a way, although it works)
<zakame> checking
<raphink> k
<JohnnyMast> control seems up-to-date now
<zakame> raphink: not bad, though I must say its a very simple tool, you probably could write it as a bash/zsh alias, though I could be wrogn
<zakame> also I tend to use pdebuild, it so rocks :D
<raphink> zakame: well it's rather the idea I'm interested in, like if such a tool (once more complete) could be useful
<raphink> like to rebuild all KDE apps maintained by someone when kdelibs4c2 switches to kdelibs4c2a for example ;)
<raphink> never used pdebuid
<raphink> I should have a look at it some time
<zakame> waah lucene doesn't build!!! :'(
<JohnnyMast> zakame how long does it normaly take for a merge/buf to get listed on malone after you used lpbugs.py ?
<zakame> JohnnyMast: er it should be instantaneous, but then again I'm using my own sendmail atm
<JohnnyMast> maybe i should do that as well
<JohnnyMast> and retry it
<zakame> I don't have an smtp, my isp doesn't give one :(
<JohnnyMast> one of my domains has one
<JohnnyMast> hmmmm
<JohnnyMast> mail doesnt install all filex
<JohnnyMast> *files
<JohnnyMast> hey Kryral wb
<Kyral> hey
<Kyral> I really have to learn how to use screen
<Kyral> then I wouldn't have to do that
<zakame> heya Kyral
<Kyral> hey
<zakame> screen so rocks
<Kyral> yah no kiddin
<Kyral> that quit was me SSHing into my box and killing the Irssi there so I could run it here on my laptop
<zakame> awww
<Amaranth> my vmware player snapshot died and i can't boot dapper anymore :(
<Kyral> ouch
<Kyral> take the plunge!
<Amaranth> what plunge?
<Amaranth> installing ubuntu at school and getting kicked out?
<Kyral> oh lol
<Kyral> I thought you were at home ;P
<Amaranth> i have windows only dialup there
<Kyral> ICK
<Amaranth> and a winmodem that doesn't have free linux drivers
<Kyral> can you hit it with something like ndiswrapper?
<Amaranth> no, that's only for wireless drivers
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> work of the devil winmodems are
<zakame> Kyral: hehe so you say indeed
<nomed> do you know where and if i can find ubuntu package of thunar?
<Kyral> Nowhere
<seth_k|away> nomed, are there any source releases of thunar, or is it SVN-only right now
<nomed> preA has been released
<Kyral> I think its still CVS only
<nomed> svn
<Kyral> same thing
<seth_k|away> um
<seth_k|away> no
<seth_k|away> not nearly the same thing
<seth_k|away> nomed, which one is called preA, I see about 6 tarballs
<siretart> raphink: now I'm here, whats up?
<Amaranth> seth_k|away: From a packaging point of view, yes, same thing.
<nomed> http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/thunar-dev/2005-November/001489.html
<nomed> http://thunar.xfce.org/download/releases/pre-alpha/
<Kyral> fooo.....
<Kyral> hehe
<Kyral> I'm a little outta it lol
<Kyral> gah my CS prof wants us to write a recursive function to find the max element in an array
<lucas> and ?
<\sh> some type of quicksort algo :) easy
<seth_k|away> Bleh, that Kyral really rubs me wrong, but that's probably just me being too easily annoyed
* seth_k|away goes back to work
<zakame> good night all :)
<JohnnyMast> good night
<Gloubiboulga> hello (again)
<JohnnyMast> hellow again Gloubiboulga :)
<Gloubiboulga> I've been working on 2 merges (#5121 and #5319)
<Gloubiboulga> The are waiting for a MOTU :)
<Gloubiboulga> or 2...
<JohnnyMast> cool
<JohnnyMast> i wish i could say that, but my smtp is bitching me
<\sh> siretart: ping
<siretart> \sh: pong
<JohnnyMast> quick question
<Kyral> have I gotten myself in over my head with work? YES!
<JohnnyMast> hula (0.1.0+svn379-2) unstable; urgency=low
<JohnnyMast>  in DEBIAN becomes hula (0.1.0+svn379-2ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low
<JohnnyMast>  in ubuntu right ?
<Kyral> I think so...
<JohnnyMast> im not sure about the -2
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch, ping
<raphink> yes JohnnyMast that's it
<raphink> first number is for debian version
<kiko> hey JohnnyMast
<kiko> I think I just sent you email :)
<raphink> it's "$debianversion"ubuntu"$ubuntuversion"
<JohnnyMast> yes but also including -2
<JohnnyMast> the debian revision
<jamessan|work> yes
<ogra> yes
<JohnnyMast> oki
<JohnnyMast> thanks so mutch !
<raphink> yes
<raphink> hmm ... and yes too :)
<ogra> and append the ubuntuX only if you really made a change ...
<raphink> I thini
<raphink> hink
<raphink> argh think
<Gloubiboulga> raphink, you need som coffee
<Gloubiboulga> some*
<Kyral> \sh_away: I sent the log from the Patch lesson
<raphink> i'm having a tea Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<raphink> hehe
* Kyral goes to refine his wikipage before tomorrow
<raphink> let me see Kyral :)
<Kyral> wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisPeterman
<Kyral> damnit raphink
<Kyral> not being where when I pasted the wiki address
<Kyral> wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisPeterman
<Kyral> hey LJ
<Kyral> ready for tomorrow?
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<raphink> Kyral: what?
<LaserJock> Kyral: pretty much. maybe a little tweaking on the wiki page yet ;-)
<Kyral> raphink: you wanted to see my wiki no?
<raphink> argh sorry :(
<Kyral> LaserJock: I have mine pretty much done
<raphink> I was trying to get composite work with fglrx, cannot get it :(
<raphink> thanks Kyral
<Kyral> thats because ATI sucks :P
<raphink> mine is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaphaelPinson
<raphink> I'll try to be Kyral :)
<raphink> sure Kyral I'm looking at it :)
<raphink> LaserJock: you're also apply tomorrow?
<LaserJock> raphink: yep
<Kyral> MOTUScience will become strong!
<raphink> Kyral: hehe
<raphink> nice wiki page you have Kyral  :)
<Kyral> MOTU School this Saturday!
<Kyral> Yea!!
<raphink> I shall modify a few things on mine still
<Kyral> Okay classtime
<raphink> yeah :)
<LaserJock> raphink: URL?
<Riddell> raphink: hmm?
<thierry_> where should go scientific packages in the menu??
<raphink> LaserJock: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaphaelPinson
<raphink> Riddell: what?
<raphink> thierry_: you mean education?
<raphink> Riddell: what is it ?
<LaserJock> thierry_: I think there is a science menu
<thierry_> LaserJock : seriously? could me show me an app like that?
<thierry_> LaserJock : by the way you could add the no .desktop files problems to your MOTU scienece team... a lot of math and sciences program have no .desktop file
<LaserJock> thierry_: yes, unfortunately many science packages or either out-of-date or not very well maintained
<Riddell> raphink: you pinged (at 14:44 UTC)
<raphink> oh yes
<raphink> that was to know if  you would be present tomorrow for the CC
<thierry_> LaserJock : yeah... I'd like to help with that... but we still should add .desktop files problems to the TODO
<thierry_> and for the menu thing... what should it be in the .desktop file? Categories=Application;Science; ?
<LaserJock> thierry_: right, I'll add that to the MOTUScience wiki
<thierry_> thanks :)
<thierry_> LaserJack : so is it Categories=Application;Science; ? that should be said in the TODO because I was going to put it in education...
<LaserJock> thierry_: well, if it is really education put it in education. However, I feel that most of the science packages do not belong in the education section.
<LaserJock> thierry_: Application;Science; I think is fine
<thierry_> LaserJock : cool, but we should tell the ubuntu-arts team (if there's any?) that we need icons for education and science menu... education doesn't have any
<azeem> if there's no icon, couldn't that mean the section does not officially exist?  Can you just make up sections?
<LaserJock> azeem: well ghemical is where I'm getting all this ;-) Yes it is offical for freedesktop.org
<LaserJock> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
<azeem> ok
<azeem> and the latest GNOME menu doesn't have an icon?  Then I would suggest filing a but in their bugzilla requestion one
<LaserJock> azeem: hmm, not sure. I don't understand how the Gnome menu works
<LaserJock> azeem: they only have a few catagories by default. or is it Ubuntu that's doing it?
<azeem> LaserJock: they have the ones in the right-most column of that link you pasted, I think
<LaserJock> sort of
<azeem> if there are no applications in a particular category, I assume that one will not get displayed
<LaserJock> azeem: btw, had ghemical been rebuilt for dapper? It shows up as no but everything else (libghemical, openbabel, mpqc, mopac7) are updated
<azeem> I guess it needs a sync request
<LaserJock> azeem: ok
<thierry_> does the .desktop file get translated by default or we need to set something special for it? (like a happy maintainer that adds translation directly in the .desktop file?)
<LaserJock> thierry_: I have no clue about that :(
<LaserJock> ok, can a MOTU please verify that ghemical can be synced?
<JohnnyMast> any one knows where xpm.h  comes from ?
<azeem> JohnnyMast: there is a search facility for files/packages at packages.ubuntu.com
<JohnnyMast> yeah for package names isnt it
<azeem> also for fiels
<azeem> eh, files
<JohnnyMast> packages.ubuntu.com
<azeem> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=xpm.h&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=breezy&arch=i386
<JohnnyMast> :)
<JohnnyMast> thanks
<LaserJock> thierry_: ok, I added a line under Goals in the MOTUScience page for .desktop files
<LaserJock> any MOTUs taking me up on my offer or do I need to bug people again ;-)
<crimsun> which offer?
<LaserJock> I need somebody to verify the sync of ghemical
<thierry_> LaserJock : thanks but you should add this link for the list of packages : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile
<LaserJock> thierry_: doh, your right
<LaserJock> thierry_: done
<crimsun> LaserJock: based on MoM output?
<LaserJock> crimsun: no, it is a new upstream release. All of the deps have been synced already. I built it in a dapper pbuilder and all of the Ubuntu changes have been taken care of by azeem
<crimsun> if you've verified it in a current pbuilder & chroot, that suffices
<LaserJock> yep
<JohnnyMast> for merge do you have to build the 2 packages ?
<JohnnyMast> ow i think you do, thats prob the n00b question of the day
<thierry_> LaserJock : I built geg wich I added the .desktop file but the category science doesn't appears in my applications list when I install the package... any idea why?
<LaserJock> thierry_: see my discussion with Amaranth in -devel
<JohnnyMast> i need some advice from ppl who do merging often
<JohnnyMast> its about a debian package that doesnt compile
<JohnnyMast> and its the one i should merge with
<JohnnyMast> ::/
<\sh> dholbach: ping
<ajmitch> morning
<dholbach> \sh: pong
<\sh> dholbach: could you take a look on http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20157 (the two attachments) and tell me if it looks like that gtk is bugging or xvfb or xauth?
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug #20157: /usr/bin/xvfb-run is missing from package xvfb (build from xorg-server) Product: Ubuntu, Component: xvfb, Severity: normal, Assigned to: daniel.stone@ubuntu.com, Status: UNCONFIRMED http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20157
<ogra> xauth is broken ...
<\sh> actually i don't think it's xauth...much more gtk or xvfb
<ogra> (witjout looking at the bug=
<ogra> i cant start a X server on thing clients because of xauth errors ...
<ogra> since thin clients use the bare minimum X system its pretty sure xauth ...
<\sh> ogra: let me have a look at xvfb-run if it's using it
<ogra> feel free :)
<\sh> my mood is not getting better....grmpf
<ogra> come on, you'll get a amd64 soon
<\sh> japp
<\sh> xauth
<\sh> bah
* ajmitch was pricing up an amd64 yesterday, still too expensive
<\sh> ogra: but no job in the near future
<nenolod> moo
<\sh> ajmitch: well..semperon kern
<nenolod> sempron64 = win
<nenolod> :P
<\sh> whatever
<\sh> 64bit is 64bit
<Kyral> \sh: didja get the log I emailed?
<\sh> Kyral: yeah...thx
<dholbach> \sh: what about the "xml.parsers.expat" line in gaphor buildlog?
<dholbach> \sh: did you introduce the xvfb-run-calls?
<\sh> dholbach: no
<dholbach> \sh: maybe it's a different command line call?
<dholbach> did you try others?
<dholbach> because i used it in other scripts already
<\sh> dholbach: no
<\sh> dholbach: it's the debian package
<dholbach> maybe they have a different xvfb version?
<dholbach> *shrug*
<\sh> dholbach: libaqbanking is doing the same...but doesn't have python..only xvfb and gtk
<\sh> dholbach: it's xauth
<dholbach> i'd add the xvfb-run commands to the bug report in any case
<dholbach> (i.e. what is called)
<\sh> # Add here commands to install the package into debian/gaphor.
<\sh> xvfb-run -a python setup.py install --no-compile --prefix /tmp/buildd/gaphor-0.7.1/debian/gaphor/usr
<dholbach> to the bug report :)
<\sh> u see it in the log#
<dholbach> ok, in one of them
<\sh> no in both
<dholbach> *I*'d add them :)
<\sh> cp g2banking.glade tmp.glade
<\sh> ( cd tmp.glade && xvfb-run glade-2 -w g2banking.glade )
<\sh> ** ERROR **: Failed to init GTK+
<\sh> aborting...
<\sh> /usr/bin/xvfb-run: line 153:  5102 Trace/breakpoint trap   DISPLAY=:$SERVERNUM XAUTHORITY=$AUTHFILE "$@" 2
<ogra> Re-add xvfb-run to xfvb (closes: Ubuntu#20157).
<\sh> >&1
<dholbach> oh yeah
<dholbach> over there
<ogra> xorg-server 1:0.99.3-0ubuntu6
<ogra> he didnt upload xauth yet
<\sh> ogra: well it was missing..now I have a xauth boog
<\sh> oh come on
<ogra> yes, i have one too...
<\sh> that's not true
<ogra> be patient
<\sh> badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom ... SCHNAKE
<ogra> xauth is in a separate package afaik
<\sh> ogra: dep of xvfb
<\sh> ogra: and installable...and has an executable
<ogra> sue
<Kyral> lol \sh thanks for reminding me of that dance at Ubuntu Love
<ogra> sure
<LaserJock> crimsun: can you ask elmo to sync ghemical for me?
<ogra> but it might still look in the wrong paths ...
<\sh> ogra: sad but true
<\sh> I still sit on my last bugs
<LaserJock> ok, can I get ogra|dholbach|\sh to tell elmo to sync ghemical for me?
<Kyral> is this for MOTUScience?
<\sh> LaserJock: done
<LaserJock> \sh: ok, thanks
<Kyral> LaserJock: isnt there a page someplace with sync status of Science packages or something likke that?
<LaserJock> Kyral: kinda. I need ghemical for work and all it's deps got synced but it didn't
<Kyral> I remember there is something that needed to be pulled in from Sid..
<LaserJock> Kyral: on the MOTUScience page there is a link to some lists I created but they are getting stale
<Kyral> yah it was a doc package...imlibview or something
<JohnnyMast> do i use lpbugs as well to submit merge diffs ?
<\sh> JohnnyMast: no...this you have to do via malone
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> and non motu ppl like me dont have to sign it right ?
<Kyral> signing is always good
<JohnnyMast> i just posted it unsigned
<Kyral> hmm, the qsynaptics package is broken somewhat...
<JohnnyMast> :|
<JohnnyMast> sendmail as well
<Kyral> Its mumbling about SHMConfig
<JohnnyMast> sendmail didnt install /usr/bin/mail for me
<Kyral> as well as not seeing the installed Synaptics driver
<Kyral> I don't even have an idea what "SHMConfig" is
<JohnnyMast> lol
<Kyral> all I wanna do is turn down the tap sensitivity lol
<herve> heloo
<herve> (argh)
<LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
<dholbach> LaserJock: pong
<dholbach> herve: hellas
<herve> hey daniel
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> lifeless: started on opensync?
<lifeless> yeah
<Kyral> ajmitch: can't wait for the packaging tutorial
<dholbach> have a nice evening
<tseng> bye dholbach
<crimsun> 'night, daniel
* mitsuhiko is away: sleeping
<ajmitch> lifeless: great, so I don't have to worry about it now?
<ajmitch> Kyral: yeah, I'm *really* looking forward to it..
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I am as well, I am trying to rework the Ubuntu Packaging Guide and I expect to learn a lot from these motu-school sessions
<ajmitch> no pressure on me, then :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: not really ;-)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: we will just bathe in your greatness for a while and will be automagically better packagers *g*
<ajmitch> spare me
<LaserJock> ajmitch: seriously though, I think it will be great to see how other people package. There so many different ways to go about things
<ajmitch> yes, but you'd do better with someone who knew what they were doing :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you can't tell me you don't know more than me. The secret to teaching is to be just one step ahead of you students. Then they don't know how much you don't know ;-)
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> looks like I can't use the package I wanted to
<ajmitch> well, I can if I wanted to rm the debian/ that comes with upstream
<LaserJock> ajmitch: have you seen the hello packages?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> at least this package I built can never make it into the archive
<ajmitch> since the version is lower than debian or ubuntu
<LaserJock> what are the chances of getting a prog. that depends on Sun's JDK into Universe?
<lifeless> azeem: hey
<ajmitch> LaserJock: not high at all
<lifeless> azeem: so Mikael Senneholm (mikan) is the maintainer for multisync right ? Do you know his thoughts on packaging opensync etc ?
<lucas> LaserJock: you should investigate whether it works with a free JVM
<ajmitch> if it works with a Free JVM, it should be ok
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, that's what I thought. Just wanted to make sure.
<azeem> lifeless: he's really pretty much MIA
<azeem> lifeless: I haven't tried to contact him, though
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> I'll email him now. Can I say we are forming a team to address *sync? (Thats fairly accurate I think(
<azeem> I was just looking at multisync-0.8x again
<azeem> lifeless: yeah
<lifeless> your email ?
<azeem> lifeless: you could ask him whether he wants to join, or if not, if he'd drop multisync for us to maintain as multisync-0.9x, or whether he preferes we start a new source package
<azeem> mbanck@gmx.net
<JohnnyMast> gys was this attached correctly ?? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kvdr/+bug/5400
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5400: kvdr: merge new debian version In: kvdr (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/5400
<ajmitch> it'd be good to see some syncing in within a couple of weeks
<lifeless> ajmitch: ECONTEXT
<ajmitch> lifeless: sorry, the sync stuff
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: it's attached, but the debdiff totally tramples on the debian changes
<lifeless> azeem: join #multusync - abuaer is around and we're talking packages
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch what did i do wrong ?
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: your debdiff removes the debian changelog entries & various debian changes
<JohnnyMast> i did debdiff <debian> <ubuntu>
<JohnnyMast> hmm
<ajmitch> doesn't always cut it
<JohnnyMast> any idea for a fix ?
<ajmitch> yes, see what changes are relevant from ubuntu & apply them
<ajmitch> don't just rely on MoM output
<JohnnyMast> well i build both packages and diffed them
<lifeless> ajmitch: so do you want to be 'in the team' too ?
<lifeless> ;)
<ajmitch_> lifeless: sure, I volunteered for the sync stuff in -desktop a few days ago :P
<lifeless> ah
<lifeless> email for this ?
<JohnnyMast> :/
<lifeless> aj@ubuntu.com ?
<ajmitch_> ajmitch@ubuntu.com
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch_ i didnt realy had to apply changes
<ajmitch> no, but you had a debian_dropped.patch
<ajmitch> which you have to review
<ajmitch> the changes in there are still relavent
<ajmitch> as a note, look at what changes ubuntu did (adding build deps)
<ajmitch> and the debian changelog
<JohnnyMast> no ome mentioned that
<ajmitch> it's mentioned in the REPORT file when you use MoM
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> email sent
<lifeless> BOMBS AWAY
<JohnnyMast> sooo, http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/kvdr/kvdr_debian-dropped.patch
<ajmitch> yes
<JohnnyMast> i got to apply that and then diff it ?
<JohnnyMast> or am i wrong now ?
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: hint: the same changes were made in debian & ubuntu
<ajmitch> with adding the build-deps
<ajmitch> so ubuntu changes can most likely be dropped
<JohnnyMast> so
<JohnnyMast> next time i look @ the merge list on revu
<JohnnyMast> i check the change log of debian and the dropped patch ?
<ajmitch> you should always check what changes have been made
<ajmitch> I've seen merges with no dropped patch hunks
<ajmitch> which were still completely wrong
<shawarma> I know I've asked this before, but who can comment in REVU?
<Seveas> shawarma, anyone with an account I guess
<ajmitch> shawarma: you can comment on your own packages, and reviewers can comment on all
<lifeless> ok
<Seveas> ah
<ajmitch> something that will probably be changed for revu2
<shawarma> ajmitch: And reviewers are... Who? MOTUs and who else?
<Seveas> ajmitch, wouldn't it be useful if others can comment too?
<lifeless> so a few bits of machinery: do we want to use alioth or launchpad, bzr or svn ?
<ajmitch> MOTUs
<ajmitch> bzr
<shawarma> ajmitch: Who's raphink?
<Seveas> bzr >> svn
<lifeless> I'd like launchpad ;)
<ajmitch> will launchpad have an area for bzr branches?
<raphink> shawarma: it's me :)
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> its called bazaar.launchpad.net ;)
<shawarma> raphink: Are you a MOTU? I couldn't find your name on the list of MOTU's in LP?
<ajmitch> ok, I thought it'd still be using baz :)
<lifeless> not at all
<ajmitch> just the supermirror is?
<raphink> shawarma: i'm not a MOTU yet. I became a reviewer yesterday only and i'm a MOTU wanabee, applying for membership tomorrow :)
<ajmitch> raphink: oh, who set you as reviewer?
<shawarma> raphink: I see. No wonder you're name didn't ring a bell.
<lifeless> azeem: ok with you? A team on launchpad, put its address down as the maintainer address is debian, use bzr for collaboration ?
<Kyral> Thought you had to be MOTU before you could review
<raphink> ajmitch : siretart did, together with dholbach
<ajmitch> Kyral: that's the usual arrangement
<shawarma> raphink: Well, I've replied to your comments on my packages in REVU. Upload ID's 990 and 991.
<ajmitch> raphink: interesting
* ajmitch will ask them if we've had a change in policy :)
<Kyral> so raphink mind looking over EasyChem ;P
<ajmitch> lifeless: I had a phone very similar to yours, btw :)
<lifeless> ajmitch: heh :)
<ajmitch> k700i
<azeem> lifeless: well, in general I don't have anything against that, but I wonder whether it is potentionlly alright to expect other DDs who might join to start a launchpad account
<raphink> ajmitch : I began to review packages and send emails to both the packager and MOTUs. I reviewed 4 packages and the MOTUs I forwarded my work to thought they wanted to give me review rights on REVU
<shawarma> ajmitch: If so, sign me up, too! It saddens me every time I look at that immense list of prospective fixes and new packages.
<Kyral> raphink: you know what this means right?
<raphink> ajmitch : I didn't ask for these rights myself ;)
<raphink> Kyral: sorry?
<Kyral> People are gonna bug you to review packages :P
<raphink> what package is it shawarma ?
<lifeless> azeem: well, on alioth we expect $randoms to get an account too. There are many more interested folk than just DD's.
<shawarma> raphink: xmorph and waili
<TheMuso> Question about package version numbering. Do I add to the version of the package from the directory? For example, if the package is 0.2.2a-2.1ubuntu1 in the directory where the merge was not completed, do I make a changelog entry with the version as 0.2.2a-2.1ubuntu2?
<raphink> shawarma: ok
<lifeless> azeem: seems to me we should use whatever toolchain will support us the most, and will let anyone interested collaborate *with* us.
<raphink> Kyral: of course, but I want to do this job :) I began to review pacakges because I thought there was a need
<raphink> I'll ahve a loko shawarma
<Kyral> then can you look over EasyChem ;P
<raphink> shawarma: being no MOTU, I can't advocate though ;)
<azeem> lifeless: ok
<lifeless> one this is, does alioth give mailing lists with archives? Launchpad does not at this point. (then again do we need that - the team does act as an alias to all the members)
<shawarma> raphink: That's fine.
<raphink> shawarma: don't advocate your own packages though ;)
<azeem> lifeless: it does, but they are getting quite spammed ATM, OTOH
<Kyral> gah
<azeem> well, if you let non-subscribers post to them, that is
<Kyral> new AIM worm hit my campus and it nuked the AIM network
<shawarma> raphink: I thought about that.. I wasn't sure if commenting without advocating would decrease karma, so I went with the safer choice.
<Kyral> if anyone wants to IM me use GTalk: C.Peterman@gmail.com
<raphink> shawarma: packages are uploaded once a version is advocated twice, doesn't matter how many times it has been refused
<raphink> shawarma: as of breezy-updates, breezy is frozen (MOTUs correct me if i'm wrong) so your package might only enter breezy through breezy-backports. So it has to be packaged for dapper
<shawarma> raphink: there's -updates, too.
<lifeless> so
<shawarma> raphink: It's used for REALLY trivial and REALLY necessary fixes
<raphink> ic
<azeem> are you sure about the trivial?
<ajmitch> lifeless: do you think mailing lists might be useful?
<shawarma> azeem: Well, trivial helps a lot.
<shawarma> azeem: If it's necessary enough the trivial part is less important, I guess.
<lifeless> ajmitch: I'm not concerned myself, but we should agree with that in mind
<raphink> ajmitch : can you bring some light about -updates?
<ajmitch> not much light
<raphink> Kyral: seems your package has been appreciated so far, and I can't advocate.
<raphink> ajmitch : I mean, are some packages on REVU to enter breezy instead of dapper?
<shawarma> -security is for security fixes, -backports are for backports (new versions), and -updates is for new revisions that fix something that is not security related.
<raphink> ok
<ajmitch> raphink: no, they most likely won't be on REVU
<shawarma> -updates is rarely used, I guess.
<raphink> so where should they be ajmitch?
<ajmitch> there are plenty of packages uploaded to revu that date back before release
<shawarma> None the less, I think it's dumb to have a b0rken xmorph and waili package in ubuntu during an entire release cycle.
<ajmitch> raphink: everything that goes to -updates has to be manually reviewed by mdz
<raphink> ajmitch : should packages on REVU always be packaged for dapper?
<shawarma> ajmitch: EVen stuff in universe?
<ajmitch> shawarma: certainly
<raphink> agreed shawarma, but REVU might not be the place to upload then
<ajmitch> raphink: usually, yes
<raphink> ok
<ajmitch> you could use it for breezy-updates if you really wanted to
<ajmitch> but it'd still have to pass by mdz
<shawarma> raphink: I might as well go for peer review before bugging mdz about it. He's a busy man.
<ajmitch> shawarma: I recommend it
<ajmitch> we try & have REVU for new packages, mainly
<ajmitch> since anything that's a candidate for breezy-updates would have a bug anyway
<shawarma> ajmitch: keep in mind, i'm not a MOTU.
<raphink> Kyral: try to find a MOTU to advocate your package once more
<shawarma> ajmitch: oh.. Yeah, that makes sense.
* Kyral looks around
<shawarma> ajmitch: WEll, I found the bug and just went ahead and fixed it. I didn't think about filing a bug report when I had the fix ready.
<Kyral> Any MOTU with like 4 minutes to spare?
<shawarma> Maybe I should get of my ass and apply for MOTUship as well.
<raphink> Kyral: I'm also waiting for a MOTU to check about 10 of my packages on REVU, including some that have already been advocated ;)
<Kyral> REVU day on Saturday
<Kyral> according to the MOTU ML
<raphink> yep :D
<raphink> yes
<raphink> saturday will be a nice day :)
<shawarma> Heh.. the wiki says you should find a mentor. LOL! HAs anyone ever actally done that?
<ajmitch> shawarma: what do you think this channel is for?
<raphink> hehe
<shawarma> ajmitch: I mean an actual mentor... Really? I've never heard of it.
<Kyral> Its called asking how to patch and getting ambushed by 4 MOTUs
<Kyral> ;P
<raphink> the Debian equivalent to #ubuntu-motu is called #debian-mentors btw ;)
<shawarma> raphink: I know. It's apparantly full of grumpy, old, busy men.
<lifeless> azeem: ajmitch: sorrry, was distracted. where were we ?
<ajmitch> lifeless: alioth vs launchpad
<lifeless> ah right, launchpad - yes/no. If yes - we need a team name.
<raphink> shawarma: LOL
<shawarma> ajmitch: The channel is for bugging all the MOTUs at the same time. A mentor is more like a one-on-one person you bug about everything.. It might happen, I've just never heard of it.
<azeem> debian-women has been doing that
<ajmitch> I think launchpad could be ok, apart from the mailing lists which we may not need
* Kyral yawns
<ajmitch> the team name would have to be something like debian-opensync or similar
<Kyral> Hopefully by this time tomorrow I will be a Member :D
<ajmitch> too many launchpad teams have general names, which won't work for multiple distros
<lifeless> yah
<raphink> Kyral: :D
<lifeless> azeem: happy with that (debian-opensync) ? for packaging all opensync/multisync/plugins etc at this point
<shawarma> Who decides who can become MOTU's? It's the technical board, right?
<ajmitch> shawarma: yes
<raphink> shawarma: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGettingIntoIt
<shawarma> raphink: Thanks.
<raphink> :)
<ajmitch> lifeless: what would the maintainer address be?
<azeem> lifeless: well, I don't know much about Launchpad, so I leave the decision to you guys
<ajmitch> it'd be nice to see debian bugs in malone if we use launchpad
<raphink> wb lucas
<lucas> re
<lucas> (***ing dsl provider ;)
<raphink> tststs
<ajmitch> lucas: I understand that..
<herve> good night
<raphink> yop Tonio_ ;
<Tonio_> lut
<raphink> :)
<raphink> :)
<xhaker> i'm puzzled
<raphink> why xhaker ?
<xhaker> why would ubuntu diff --disable-ssl on gftp ?
<ajmitch> is gftp under the GPL?
<azeem> xhaker: licensing issues, perhaps
<xhaker> oh, we take the upstream, and it allows you to connect to ftps locations.. and what we're doing is disable that feature?
<xhaker> azeem
<xhaker> licensing?
<xhaker> of what?
<xhaker> openssl ?
<azeem> xhaker: the openssl license is incompatible to the GPL
<ajmitch> yes, gpl+openssl don't mix without an exception for the gpl app
<lifeless> and dont even think about gpl libraries + openssl
<raphink> how open is openssl then?
<lifeless> ajmitch: debian-opensync@launchpad.net
<ajmitch> lifeless: alright
<shawarma> I'm heading off, guys. Important meeting tomorrow morning. Cheers!
<lifeless> or something very close to that, maybe @teams.launchpad.net, I don't recall
<raphink> bye shawarma :)
<lifeless> ajmitch: so, I should make this thing ?
<ajmitch> might as well
<ajmitch> if we're going to package plugins separately we could have a common debian/ branch to base them from
<xhaker> universe is disabled by default on sources.list because of the "no support" type of the software, is there a problem making gftp use ssl in universe? or maybe make a multiverse package?
<lifeless> done
<xhaker> what i find wierd is that there isn't any other way of accessing FTPS locations
<lifeless> ajmitch: azeem: https://launchpad.net/people/debian-opensync
<ajmitch> joining
<ajmitch> lifeless: you reaslise that we need a decent emblem now?
* lifeless trouts ajmitch 
<lifeless> yes, we chose launchpad because it has emblems :!
<lifeless> azeem: ajmitch: I've made you both admins on the team
<azeem> thanks
<lifeless> its now a triumvirate
<lifeless> bah, bad news. I was confused - team aliases currently do not work *externally*, only within launchpad
<lifeless> so, we will need to setup an email address/list somewhere
<azeem> we could just subscribe to the PTS for the time being, if this is going to change
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> I think it will, launchpad is still being built ;)
<sorush20> hi guys
<LaserJock> hi
<sorush20> before reading some of the links in the topic, just generally how do I get a package that is not listed to be part of the development packages? so that it can be backported to dapper?
<LaserJock> sorush20: do you mean backported to breezy?
<sorush20> LaserJock: yes sorry
<LaserJock> sorush20: ok, and the package you are looking at is not currently in dapper?
<sorush20> LaserJock:  is not in any ubuntu repository and its a panoramic image creator
<sorush20> LaserJock: where there are a number of images taken and the program uses an algorithem to put them together
<LaserJock> sorush20: I don't think it is likely to be backported but you can put it on the list of programs needing packageing at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
<LaserJock> and it could be included in dapper
<sorush20> LaserJock: here is the link to the program its in Java though?(cyclops)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-11
<LaserJock> sorush20: ?
<sorush20> http://www.path.unimelb.edu.au/~dersch/
<sorush20> sorry got carried away
<sorush20> LaserJock: did you take a look?
<LaserJock> sorush20: hmm, I'm no expert here. It would need to work with a open JVM not Sun's to get in Universe.
<sorush20> LaserJock: where could it go into how would you go about getting it being available on the ubuntu distros?
<LaserJock> sorush20: well you can try putting it on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
* tseng finds it odd that there are no dapper changes today
<tseng> did i miss some?
<LaserJock> tseng: there we some, not many though
<sorush20> LaserJock: I know next to nothing about programming
<tseng> oh that would do it
<tseng> thunderbird sorts mail retardedly
<LaserJock> sorush20: so you want PTViewer right?
<sorush20> LaserJock: I don't really know which one it is but I think they could all be provided on one utils package!
<LaserJock> sorush20: I think maybe PTViewer on http://webuser.fh-furtwangen.de/%7Edersch/ is what you want
<sorush20> not the viewer the editor too  PTEditor.jar http://www.path.unimelb.edu.au/~dersch/pted/pteditor.html
<sorush20> http://www.path.unimelb.edu.au/~dersch/pted/pteditor.html
<Seveas> hmm, latest moin has a *shiver* GUI editor
<Seveas> I hope ubuntu wiki will not use that :)
<LaserJock> sorush20: that page is outdated. I think the http://webuser.fh-furtwangen.de/~dersch/ is the one you want
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<lifeless> azeem: ajmitch: I've sent in the opensync ITP
<raphink> is `Section: universe/net' good ? or should it be `Section : net'  instead?
<ajmitch> Section: net
<raphink> thanks :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: So, can you request a sync of libapache-mod-musicindex?
<tseng> StevenK: done.
<StevenK> tseng: Thanks.
<tseng> ajmitch: done.
<tseng> ajmitch: re libapache
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> StevenK: see, it's often good to ask others :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Bleh.
<StevenK> :-)
<StevenK> Hopefully, after this CC meeting, I can do it myself.
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> TB meeting
<StevenK> So, I attend the CC meeting, but I need to wait for another meeting?
* StevenK is confused - NewMember only mentions CC.
<tseng> CC = membership
<tseng> TB = maintainership
<StevenK> Ah
<tseng> membership is non-technical
<tseng> its just a recongnition of any form of contributor
<StevenK> So, after this CC meeting, I need to attend a TB meeting?
<siretart> StevenK: right
<tseng> unfortunately yet
<tseng> yes*
<ajmitch> StevenK: just be glad - it's not NM ;)
<siretart> StevenK: normally the TB will check the technical knowledge about packaging of an applicant. As DD, there is no point in asking you that ;)
<ajmitch> otherwise you need to look for someone to vouch for you
<tseng> StevenK has a bit of a list on dapper-changes
<tseng> im sure it will be no problem
<ajmitch> sure
<StevenK> I deny any list on dapper-changes.
<ajmitch> his list is longer than mine now, probably
<StevenK> :-P
<tseng> mine and yours put together
<ajmitch> at least until I throw up another 50 or so packages
<tseng> we are on the ubuntu chopping block
<ajmitch> yeah
<tseng> "Worst Maintainers"
<ajmitch> you reckon they'll kick us out for dereliction of duty?
<tseng> nah, there is a 2 year timeout :P
<tseng> i do something useful at least once a month
<ajmitch> I try & help out
<ajmitch> not like I've done much with main yet
<tseng> thats what seb and dholbach are for
<ajmitch> sure
<tseng> speaking of, he wants me to pacakge Diva
<ajmitch> lucky you
<ajmitch> is it even released?
<tseng> i wonder how many more *-sharp's that will get us
<ajmitch> doko wants me to do ironpython, which I did start
<tseng> tiny bindings are getting old
<ajmitch> since it at least compiles with 1.1.10
<tseng> hm it does something useful?
<ajmitch> & runs
<ajmitch> I haven't tried anything large yet
<tseng> im not sure what his motivation for it is
<ajmitch> just another python implementation
<ajmitch> not sure if it'll be useful to many people
<tseng> im not that excited by any "XYZ language ported to CIL"
<ajmitch> not even php?
<tseng> man, that would be awful
<tseng> i had to work on php today
<tseng> it was pain
<ajmitch> I have to work on php every day
<tseng> this was before i started switching things to templated
<tseng> some of the worst code ive ever co-authored
<ajmitch> beating myself bloody with ubuntu packaging is my form of stress release
<tseng> mixing my code with non-programmers always makes a mess
<tseng> i get sick of fixing their stuff and lower myself to their level
<tseng> embrace the crack
<Seveas> raphink, ping
<raphink> Seveas: yes?
<Seveas> - should contain the short version of the GPL Licence (see other packages)
<Seveas> I took this from an existing package
<ajmitch> ok, sent a time suggestion to the list
<ajmitch> hopefully I'll get a couple of replies
<Seveas> please point me to one with a correct debian/copyright :)
<raphink> sure Seveas wait a min
<raphink> Seveas: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/450302
<raphink> I think the miss the second paragraph in your file Seveas
<raphink> if I remember well
<Seveas> yup
<raphink> ;)
<Seveas> thanks for the comments, new package has landed on revu :)
<raphink> Seveas: good :)
<Seveas> btw, keyboardcast is cool :)
<raphink> what does it do exactly?
<Seveas> do you know clusterssh?
<ajmitch> siretart: still awake & sending out mails? :)
<raphink> nope
<raphink> Seveas: not sure you took all my comments in consideration though from what I see ;)
<Seveas> I did
<raphink> oh sorry Seveas I had forgotten to click on the new uplaoded version. Mea culpa ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: you're right. I should get to bed now
<raphink> hehe
<siretart> its 1:30am here..
<siretart> gn8 folks
<raphink> gn8 siretart
<Seveas> raphink, pfew, I though I screwed up with debuild/dput :)
<siretart> I hope I did write something useful
<raphink> hehe
<ajmitch> siretart: it was ;)
<raphink> Seveas: is keyboardcast a gui app or a console one?
<Seveas> gui
<raphink> Seveas: then you miss a .desktop file
<Seveas> true
<raphink> you should add one
<Seveas> dh_make should generate one ;)
<raphink> and mail it to upstream once it's done
<raphink> hmm it doesn't so far Seveas  ;)
<Seveas> http://blogs.gnome.org/view/ryanl/2005/12/04/0
<Seveas> (info about keyboardcast)
<raphink> wait a min
<raphink> Seveas: where you able to install your package on dapper?
<raphink> oh stupid me
<raphink> nm
* raphink should go to bed instead of trying to install dapper packages on his sister's breezy box... doh!
<Seveas> I am testing in a breezy pbuilder, dapper wouldn't work
<Seveas> but I thought revu does dapper?
<raphink> Seveas: I built the package in my dapper pbuilder without a pb
<ajmitch> Seveas: of course, we should be doing it all on dapper
<raphink> but then I can't install it on breezy ;)
<Seveas> raphink, I meant that pbuilder creat wouldn't work for dapper last time I tried it
<ajmitch> Seveas: so dist-upgrade it
<raphink> Seveas: when was last time you tried?
<Seveas> raphink, when something was broken :)
<Seveas> last week
<raphink> hehe
<Seveas> Hmm, dist upgrading the pbuilder
* Seveas looks at wiki
<raphink> I'll build it on this breezy box to see
<raphink> Seveas: pbuilder update
<Seveas> --override-config
<raphink> hmm yes
<raphink> if you changed your sources.list
<Seveas> and pbuilderrc
<raphink> yes
<Seveas> well, it's trying now
<raphink> trying keyboardcast
<raphink> i can't seem to type in the `type here' field :(
<raphink> which is not very nice :(
<Seveas> you can
<Seveas> but all input is redirected
<raphink> well I can't even remove the `type in here' thingy
<raphink> and it's not redirected
<Seveas> you're not supposed to, the thing is just for grabbing keystrokes and multiplexing them to the windows you select
<raphink> it just doesn't work i'm afraid
<Seveas> it's awesome for remote managing of several machines
<raphink> oh it'snot for typing things really
<Seveas> no, read desrt's blog :)
<raphink> oh ok
<raphink> it works with shortcuts or so
<raphink> :)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I'll do taht, but not tonight
<raphink> it's almost 2AM
<raphink> bed time
<Seveas> hehem yeah here too
<Seveas> i'll wait until pbuilder did it's magic
<raphink> if I want to get a beauty sleep and be wide awake for CC tomorrow :)
<Seveas> 50% downloaded
<Seveas> what time is the CC?
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> ;)
<Seveas> 14:00
<Seveas> That'll be a tough one for me :(
<raphink> yep
<raphink> 14:00UTC
<raphink> what time will that be for you?
<Seveas> 15:00
<Seveas> but I'm at work then
<raphink> :s
<raphink> same time for me, but I won't be working
<Seveas> pbuilder is doing apt-magic now....
<raphink> k
<Seveas> pbuilder clean will clean out the old apt cache too, right?
<raphink> it will rebuild the base.tgz
<Seveas> ah
<Seveas> I think I should do a pbuilder clean too then
<raphink> why?
<Seveas> running low on diskspace :)
<raphink> hehe
<Seveas> and having breezy and dapper debs in cache is stupid
<raphink> ;
<raphink> ok well
<raphink> i'm off to bed
<Seveas> g'night
<raphink> you can find examples of .desktop files in other gui apps packages ;)
<raphink> gnight
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: ping
<Seveas> bmonty, he's probably asleep (2am here)
<bmonty> minghua: lmodern is synched
<bmonty> k
<minghua> bmonty: you sent the request?  thanks!
<bmonty> minghua: yeah, what was the other package that you wanted synched?
<minghua> bmonty: and it's also built, great.  I'll close the bug tonight when I'm back home.
<minghua> bmonty: stardict
<minghua> bmonty: malone bug #5191
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5191: stardict: merge new debian version In: stardict (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5191
<bmonty> k
<Kyral> heyas
<bmonty> hi Kyral
<Seveas> raphink|sleep, desktop file added (+corrected bug wrt patching) - now to find advocating MOTUs :)
<Kyral> which seems to be hard
<JohnnyMast> thanks you guys for the dtailed reply on the mailing list
<JohnnyMast> (about an other merge question)
<LaserJock> anybody know the difference between dbs and cdbs?
<JohnnyMast> yes
<JohnnyMast> cdbs has an extra c
<JohnnyMast> :p
<JohnnyMast> (sorry)
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: that's ok, I would've probably done it too ;-)
<JohnnyMast> hehe work cant be only working trough the numbers
<ajmitch_> yes, cdbs & dbs are quite different
<crimsun> Debian Build System (http://snoopy.apana.org.au/~bam/debian/faq/#dbs) vs. Common Debian Build System
<ajmitch_> thanks crimsun
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: I was wondering what you were planning to do with Malone #4387 ?
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<JohnnyMast> wich one is that bmonty
<bmonty> it is basically merged, just waiting for the 64-bit arches to build it
<bmonty> bayonne
<JohnnyMast> well there are packages i got stuck with
<ajmitch_> right, why is it assigned to JohnnyMast ?
<ajmitch_> you got stuck with?
<ajmitch_> how so?
<JohnnyMast> it didnt build @ all
<JohnnyMast> not even on bebian with all depps on the right place
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: it has built on everything but ia64 and amd64
<ajmitch_> you're not duplicating others' work, are you?
<JohnnyMast> hula ?
<JohnnyMast> hmm no
<JohnnyMast> in fact
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: the package is bayonne, Malone #4387
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<JohnnyMast> not one merge succeded yet
<JohnnyMast> thats not assigned to me
<ajmitch_> JohnnyMast: it's listed as assigned to you
<ajmitch_> and I don't know why
<JohnnyMast> bayonne  	bmontgom@montynet.org  	ASSIGNED  	
<JohnnyMast> thats not my email
<ajmitch_> 05 Dec 05 11:08   Johnny Mast  bayonne: assignee  motumergers  rave
<ajmitch_> look at the activity log
<ajmitch_> you're listed as changing that on the 5th
<ajmitch_> it might have been a typo
<JohnnyMast> yes i see
<JohnnyMast> i asigned back
<JohnnyMast> but then got it back as well
<bmonty> its no problem I was just wondering why it changed :)
<ajmitch_> it's a problem in that the merge page won't get updated accurately
<ajmitch_> since it's no longer the assignee
<JohnnyMast> i realy need to learn this guys
<JohnnyMast> a bug fix isnt a problem
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: no problem, we just need to keep the bug assigned to MOTU Mergers
<JohnnyMast> i didnt knew that by then
<bmonty> plus that package is merged, so not much to do with it but wait
<JohnnyMast> yeah well, this dude is learning and trying to help out :)
<JohnnyMast> i got a great reply on the mailing list
<JohnnyMast> wich i will study tomorrow
<ajmitch_> you just need to learn the procedures before randomly reassigning :)
<ajmitch_> malone currently allows people to do anything, unlike bugzilla
<ajmitch_> that's a good & a bad thing
<bmonty> its partly my fault, I should have added a note saying it was waiting on 64-bit arches
<JohnnyMast> yes, but first thing i do
<JohnnyMast> is when i have time
<JohnnyMast> and understand merging
<JohnnyMast> is fixing the wiki
<JohnnyMast> because i dont get the rules on the wiki nor does TheMuso
<ajmitch_> common bug system ettiquette is to not reassign when it's already assigned to someone
<ajmitch_> we should note these things down
<JohnnyMast> well write the whole cirle down
<JohnnyMast> i learned the most from you guys (thanks)
<bmonty> ajmitch: I think there might be an old page that says to assign bugs to yourself and make comments in the status block
<ajmitch_> it's not obvious what to write down until someone needs to know
<ajmitch_> bmonty: probably
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: do you remember what wiki page you followed?
<ajmitch_> but this one was already assigned to motumergers
<JohnnyMast> MOTU -> wannabee
<JohnnyMast> and then merging
<JohnnyMast> wich only reported how to stat the staus
<JohnnyMast> *status
<JohnnyMast> not how to merge
<bmonty> do you have the wiki names?
<bmonty> preferably the URL
<JohnnyMast> i can look it up
<ajmitch_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge ?
<JohnnyMast> thats one of them
<JohnnyMast> i think i saw more
<JohnnyMast> but yes, that page doesnt give much info
<JohnnyMast> unles that rule i broke then
* ajmitch_ wishes he got karma for fixing debian bugs
<JohnnyMast> then fix it
<JohnnyMast> lol
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: the merge bugs stay assigned to MOTU Merge Team so that REVU stays updated
<minghua> ajmitch_: heh.  then import that bug into malone :-)
<JohnnyMast> yes how do you DE-asign them when you cant work it out ?
<ajmitch_> nah
<ajmitch_> I wouldn't want to flood malone with crap ;)
<JohnnyMast> i would be happy to hand it over
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: I already changed it back
<ajmitch_> I'd be happy to reassign it if firefox weren't broken here..
<bmonty> you are welcome to watch the buildlogs and update the bug if you want
<JohnnyMast> ok well guys, im gonna studdy that email tomorrow and if i have questions ile ask them here
<JohnnyMast> well bmonty one day ile merge successfully as well
<ajmitch_> bmonty: thanks for fixing it
<ajmitch_> JohnnyMast: you've filed merge bugs?
<JohnnyMast> well i tryed them
<ajmitch_> ok, I see a few
<JohnnyMast> but they failed
<JohnnyMast> and i got lost
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: siretart's email is a pretty good start
<JohnnyMast> reinard is sirestart ?
<ajmitch_> yes
<bmonty> hmmm...what happened to the little icon that shows the status message in malone?
<JohnnyMast> ok then i have one just simple queston
<JohnnyMast> *question
<JohnnyMast> the source the packages is based on
<ajmitch_> kiki isn't fixed already, it just doesn't have MoM output
<JohnnyMast> is a simple apt-get source <package> right ?
<ajmitch_> 0.5.6-1 vs 0.5.6-0ubuntu2
<ajmitch_> yes
<JohnnyMast> oki
<JohnnyMast> thats what i tought :)
<ajmitch_> depending on what you have in your sources.list
<bmonty> as long as you have dapper in sources.list
* ajmitch_ has a debian chroot setup to get debian source
<JohnnyMast> thats what i have bmonty
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: then that is correct
<JohnnyMast> good
<JohnnyMast> well tomorrow if i have any you will hear more questions
<JohnnyMast> but with good email reply`s like the one i got questions are soon answered (also on irc)
<JohnnyMast> alright guys
<JohnnyMast> im gonna sleep
<JohnnyMast> take care all of you
<bmonty> night JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> thanks
<ajmitch> looks like hula will be fun to merge
<JohnnyMast> cold here is a good student too
<JohnnyMast> but he`s shy so be carefull with him :p
<ajmitch> ok, hula might be a 5 minute task judging by the changelog
<JohnnyMast_ZZZZz> guys btw
<JohnnyMast_ZZZZz> could we do one step by step if one of you got time and i still dont get it ?
<ajmitch> sure
<JohnnyMast_ZZZZz> good thanks
<JohnnyMast_ZZZZz> im gonna sleep for real now :)
<bmonty> ajmitch: if I only make changes in the debian dir, is it worthwhile to use filterdiff to get rid of all the autoconf junk? (i.e. filterdiff -i '*/debian/*' < package.debdiff)
<ajmitch> bmonty: yeah, , but please use > :)
<bmonty> ajmitch: of course
<ajmitch> to get to a new debdiff
<ajmitch> lsdiff is wonderful
<ajmitch> I like it
<bmonty> yeah, I just started using that :)
<ajmitch> splitdiff is also great
<lifeless> diff utils -> love
<bmonty> I need to spend some time reviewing 'man -k diff' :)
* minghua thanks bmonty for the "man -k" tip :-)
<minghua> it's hard to remember how to spell "apropos"
<lifeless> you mean ap<tab> ?
<bmonty> I didn't know about apropos until after I used man -k for a long time....I can't break the habit :)
<minghua> lifeless: well, it's not always in a shell, sometimes I need to spell it in email or irc
<lifeless> sounds like your irc and email clients need tab completion ;)
<LaserJock> do you guys use ever use dbs?
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<Kyral> this has to be an omen
<Kyral> I come back to my room and open my fridge to find that 4 cans of soda frozen and exploded
<bmonty> at least it isn't beer
<Kyral> Still sticky and a pain in the ass to clean
<bmonty> just don't let it thaw :)
<Kyral> I cleaned it up
<bmonty> that reminds me of when we used to freeze gum in liquid nitrogen and then smash it on the wall :)
<ajmitch_> it's an omen of the CC meeting?
<Kyral> Right now I hope its not an omen of my Final Exams next week
<LaserJock> so I take it that nobody uses dbs then.
<LaserJock> Kyral: it will be all good ;-)
<Kyral> I can appear before the CC again if I need to
<Kyral> I CAN'T take my finals again
<bmonty> LaserJock: I use whatever the original packager used :)
<LaserJock> Kyral: sure you can, when you take the class over again
<Kyral> You don't see it
<Kyral> I'm still on Academic Warning
<ajmitch_> aha
<LaserJock> bmonty: yeah, I just wondered if there were very many people/packages using it?
<ajmitch_> LaserJock: sure
<Kyral> As far as I am concerned, if I fail an exam I get kicked out, AGAIN!
<LaserJock> Kyral: well study hard then. What year are you?
<Kyral> Sophomore
<Kyral> technically 3rd Semester Freshman
<ajmitch_> I count 38 packages in universe using dbs
<LaserJock> ajmitch_: doesn't seem like a lot to me. I was wondering if I should include it in the Packaging Guide
<ajmitch_> do you want to include every tool that people might use? :)
<LaserJock> not exactly, only relevant ones
<bmonty> any idea what to do if the orig.tar.gz in ubuntu and debian have the same version but are different files?
<ajmitch_> how different?
<chillywilly> hello motu
<ajmitch_> hello chillywilly
<bmonty> the md5s don't match...not sure how to answer that otherwise
<ajmitch_> bmonty: grab the tarballs, check what files are different
<ajmitch_> it shouldn't be a problem
<ajmitch_> unless you're wanting to sync in a new debian revision
<bmonty> I already asked elmo to sync, and he said he couldn't becuase the orig files are different
<ajmitch_> yay
<ajmitch_> what package?
<bmonty> filelight
<ajmitch_> -0ubuntu3
<ajmitch_> explains it
<bmonty> yup
<ajmitch_> either ubuntu or debian people repacked a tarball
<ajmitch_> or upstream was naughty
<ajmitch_> oh dear
<ajmitch_> elmo is debian maintainer :)
<bmonty> yes :)
<bmonty> so do I have to merge in all the changes by hand against ubuntu's version of the tarball?
<ajmitch_> maybe
<ajmitch_> it's still not nice
<ajmitch_> you could ask elmo what he thinks ;)
<chillywilly> is elmo fury and red?
<chillywilly> furry*
<lifeless> uhm yes and yes
<bmonty> ajmitch: like maybe he could bump the version in debian and then sync over to ubuntu?
<lifeless> which adds to the humour
<bmonty> or we could just not sync and wait for the next upstream version
<ajmitch_> if you changed the orig.tar.gz in ubuntu, it would break the breezy archive
<bmonty> even if it was 0.99beta7? (assuming there is such a thing)
<ajmitch_> no
<ajmitch_> but that would require a new upstream version
<bmonty> good, since they are at 1.0-beta6 :)
<ajmitch_> which is 0.99beta6
<bmonty> :(
<bmonty> good night everyone
<Kyral> Goodnight MOTUs
<ajmitch_> night
<LaserJock> goodnight Kyral, good luck tomorrow
<Kyral> Lets hope I wake up in time lol
<Kyral> 9 AM EST right?
<ajmitch_> set an alarm...
<Kyral> LJ good luck to you as well :D
<LaserJock> Kyral: I think it is, 6 AM PST
<crimsun> yeah, it's godawful early for your timezone
<crimsun> pretty crappy for mine, too, since my sleep schedule is all sorts of funk
<LaserJock> crimsun: what's your timezone?
<ajmitch> 3AM for me :)
<crimsun> LaserJock: I'm EST
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that is terrible
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no it's not
<ajmitch> I simply won't attend
<crimsun> :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that reminds me. your motu-school session would be like 2:00 AM for me
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no kidding
<ajmitch> I can't have a time to suit everyone
<crimsun> just abuse ajmitch when he's awake ;)
<ajmitch> nothing new there ;)
<crimsun> hehe
<LaserJock> well, as long as I get the log I'll be ok I guess
<dholbach> v
<zakame> hello dholbach :)
<TheMuso> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey guys :)
<ajmitch_> hi dholbach
<crimsun> re daniel
<jsgotangco> morning dholbach
<dholbach> how are you all? :-)
* jsgotangco still feels tired
<crimsun> merging :)
* zakame tries to fix the lucene merge
* jsgotangco needs he-man strength
<dholbach> jsgotangco: would a coffee help?
<zakame> and just got mail from elmo, my key's been added to the keyring :)
<jsgotangco> dholbach, yeah it does
* dholbach hands steaming coffee to everybody
<dholbach> zakame: cool - UPLOAD!
<jsgotangco> zakame, cool - jump to your death!
<zakame> dholbach: I will! :-) but I'll still post the debdiff so you can review it before I upload ;)
<zakame> jsgotangco: buwahaha :)
<dholbach> zakame: now you can break stuff on your own - how does it feel?
* jsgotangco just bought a server from serverpronto and had breezy installed
<crimsun> rockin'
<zakame> dholbach: a little disorienting, but I'll manage :)
<zakame> jsgotangco: w00t
<jsgotangco> zakame, yeah, personal playground
<jsgotangco> hehe
<zakame> question: which free jvm is preferred for building, kaffe or java-gcj-compat? I see debian lucene using the former, while breezy has the latter... should I keep it to that?
<crimsun> that's a doko question, though my gut tells me that we want to minimise the diff, so choose whatever Debian's is unless there's a build-time dependency on something else
<dholbach> when i heard doko talking about stuff, it was always gcj-compat
<dholbach> but crimsun is right, doko will know for sure
<dholbach> i can see the motu java team already ;)
<dholbach> did anyone read sylpheed-claws thread on u-d@?
<dholbach> u-devel?
<ajmitch_> yep
<dholbach> seems like that merge is really important
<zakame> yes, reading it now
<dholbach> even better, if we can sync from now on
<Amaranth> dholbach: I say drop the gtk1 version, sync the gtk2 version from debian, and be done with it.
<dholbach> Amaranth: we have to see what we changed in the gtk2 version
<dholbach> Amaranth: and there might be still people using the gtk1 version
<jsgotangco> do we know anyone in ubuntu who is in brisbane?
<dholbach> jsgotangco: maybe the UbuntuWorldMap knows?
<jsgotangco> dholbach, oh yeahhh
<ajmitch_> I'm sure there are a few
<zakame> dholbach: hm, interesting.. a MOTUJavaTeam :D I'm not much of a java code though :(
<ajmitch_> zakame: the great thing is that you don't need to be ;)
<zakame> ajmitch: wow! :D
<jsgotangco> dholbach, actually its UbuntuWorldWide =)
<dholbach> oh well :)
<jsgotangco> oohhh andyfitz is in brisbane
<ajmitch_> yep
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, i might go back next week
<dholbach> zakame: i think that teams just need to be founded, to have a contact adress and as soon as people start envisioning things, adding stuff to their todo list, ... people start joining the team
<zakame> dholbach: yup... I'm already reading the MOTUTeamHowto :)
<dholbach> :))))
<zakame> hey minghua :)
<minghua> hi zakame
<ajmitch_> StevenK: nice future plans
<zakame> nice indeed :)
* zakame decides to follow doko and b-d-i on gcj-compat
<TheMuso> How does one reassign a bug to motureviewers in malone?
<dholbach> if you click on the package name in the         <package>  <status>  <severity>  <assigned to>    line
<dholbach> below "Fix requested in"
<dholbach> see it?
<TheMuso> above or below?
<dholbach> the package name, if you click on it - does that work?
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<dholbach> cool
<TheMuso> There is an assigned to option that has nobody, me, and a universe bugs option.
<dholbach> and below that, there's a box, where you can just write "motureviewers" in
<TheMuso> Is that where I should be?
<dholbach> exactly right
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<dholbach> de rien
<TheMuso> Crap. I screwed up.
<dholbach> what's wrong?
<TheMuso> I updated the status for the wrontg bug and attached a debdiff to the wrong bug.
<ajmitch_> as long as you didn't kill launchpad it's still fine ;)
<TheMuso> Need to update the debdiff again. Damn!
<zakame> hehe, that's ok
<TheMuso> Accidentally updated 5384.
<TheMuso> Lets try again.
<ajmitch_> ok, you don't need to add a 2nd changelog entry
<ajmitch_> the 'Resynchronise with debian' is enough, if you put your own name to it
<TheMuso> ajmitch_: I listed the wrong merge bug that is being closed.
<ajmitch_> I know
<TheMuso> I uploaded the debdiff to the wrong bug anyway.
<ajmitch_> I looked at the debdiff though :)
<TheMuso> Its alright. I have done it already and will upload when done.
<TheMuso> That should be better now.
<dholbach> if nobody raises objections in the next 4-5 hours i'll send out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReviewDayAnnounce
<ajmitch_> dholbach: looks good
<dholbach> merci
<dholbach> :)
<minghua> dholbach: you probably want to emphasize motureviewers are for packages already in ubuntu.  I read that part twice, and I already more or less knew what motureviewers is :-)
<bojan> hi!
<dholbach> minghua: thanks for the heads-up, will rewrite
<dholbach> minghua: updated it
<minghua> dholbach: that's much clearer, thanks
<dholbach> thank *you* :)
<minghua> Hmm, what is the fridge-devel list?  I can't find it at http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/
<robitaille> minghua,  it is the list for the Fridge editors
<dholbach> minghua: http://fridge.ubuntu.com
<minghua> robitaille: I see, thanks
<robitaille> minghua,  you can email ideas and articles to it.  See the last line of http://fridge.ubuntu.com/about
<ajmitch_> and then you become famous
<ajmitch_> & get all the girls
<ajmitch_> right?
<dholbach> yeah
<jsgotangco> girls?
<jsgotangco> really?
<ajmitch_> I'd better get writing
<jsgotangco> how come speaking doesn't get the girls
<jsgotangco> :(
<dholbach> speaking does too :)
<ajmitch_> what does reviewing get you?
<dholbach> fame and gratitude
<ajmitch_> cool
<dholbach> experience?
<ajmitch_> I'd like the fortune as well :)
<jsgotangco> if you build it they will come
<minghua> anybody know the plan for the second step of libstdc++ allocator ABI transition?  the part debian is doing by binNMU'ing a bunch of packages
<dholbach> we'll do simple rebuilds
<minghua> dholbach: adding build1 suffices in version number?
<dholbach> yeah and a simple changelog entry
<dholbach> build1 in the cases, where there are no ubuntuN yet
<dholbach> minghua: it's time you become a MOTU too :)
<dholbach> minghua: you're not a member yet, are you?
<ajmitch_> doko will probably upload huge batches of packages again for rebuild
<minghua> dholbach: no, not a member yet.  but I'm not ready for the CC meeting in six hours, for sure
<dholbach> then next time
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> i'm happy you're here nevertheless :)
<minghua> dholbach: I plan to apply for membership the next CC meeting
<dholbach> excellent
<minghua> dholbach: it's a pleasure to work with you guys
<dholbach> :-)
* ajmitch_ agrees
<ajmitch_> hm, I wonder if this is a gtk+ bug or freeciv bug..
<sivang> morning all
<minghua> hi sivang
<sivang> hey minghua
<raphink> Seveas: seems to me if you don't keep the `later' in the license, then the `either' should be removed too ;)
<raphink> Seveas: ; either version 2 of the License.
<Seveas> hmm, indeed
<raphink> ;)
<Seveas> The whole license was a mess-up: he didn't license it at all and I was working on 3 or 4 things at the same time
<Seveas> but that is OK now :)
<raphink> and while you're working on small details in debian/copyright, you can put a capital c in the (C) and space between (C) and YYYY
<raphink> that's just very small details though ;)
<raphink> oh ok
<Seveas> I never use a capital c in (c) :)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> ;)
<Seveas> i'd rather use , but afaik these files should be ASCII :)
<raphink> I usually use  myself
<raphink> but a lot of people use (C)
<Seveas> all irrelevant details
<raphink> indeed lol
<Seveas> As long as the software is nice, people are happy :)
<raphink> :)
<Seveas> and keyboardcast is cool
<raphink> well why do people use Ubuntu instead of Mandriva ?
<raphink> I think there is to do with the quality of the package system and of the packages
<Seveas> deb >> rpm
<Seveas> and definitely package quality
<raphink> policy is stricter in Debian and Ubuntu than in most other distros
<Seveas> yeah
<Seveas> I like it
<raphink> that helps too
<raphink> all these small details make the whole thing
<Seveas> Better make it hard for developers who know what they doing, then for user who don't
<raphink> yes
<raphink> this said, you sometimes find horrible debs around (not in the official repos, but on {kde,gnome}-apps for example)
<Seveas> yeah, my first attempts at packaging were equally horrible
<Seveas> did you see the stupid bug in my patch handling?
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> hmm no, what is that?
<raphink> :s
<raphink> in debian/rules you mean ?
<Seveas> yeah
<Seveas> didn't unpatch in the clean target
<raphink> ok
<raphink> ic
<raphink> I use cdbs usually
<raphink> it does all this automatically
<Seveas> don't tell ogra :)
<raphink> lol
<raphink> well some told me it's better to do so
<raphink> but I surely don't want to miss the lecture on saturday ;)
<ogra> Seveas, he simply wont make his exams in #ubuntu-motu-school :P
<Seveas> ogra, :)
<Seveas> ogra, but not using debhelper is simply masochistic
<ogra> you need to know both ...
<raphink> yes
<ogra> since we have to handle packages that use both ...
<raphink> I learned a bit of `classic rules' some time ago
<Seveas> yeah, but simply using dh_desktop instead of writing a post{inst,rm} is so much nicer :)
<raphink> I'm able to read and understand it ;)
<ogra> thats true
<raphink> using cdbs doesn't prevent from using debhelper in addition though ;)
<Seveas> using cdbs hides all details
<raphink> yes
<Seveas> that said, a well-written piece of software needs a 3-line debian/rules with cdbs which is cool in its own way
<raphink> 3-line is a bit too much sometimes ;)
<siretart> Seveas: it is even trickier to build packages without debhelper ;)
<Seveas> siretart, I know
<Seveas> I built one without it
<raphink> o_O
<Seveas> (well: a plugin ported to beep from xmms where the xmms plugin had a package, su i used the debian/ dir from that one :))
<raphink> was that for fun?
<raphink> hello siretart
<siretart> huhu raphink
<raphink> hmm ok ;)
<siretart> raphink: is seems to be a common task during the debian NM process: building a small package without debhelper or/cdbs, just with basic tools like cp, echo and cat
<raphink> ic
<Seveas> aka, reimplementing parts of debhelper/cdbs in debian/rules :)
<raphink> yes
<raphink> if you know what has to be done, it might not be too difficult
<Seveas> as a MOTU you should know what has to be done :)
<raphink> and so many proprietary developers have to reinvent the wheel each time they program something ; you just have to suffer that to understand them ;)
<raphink> I'm not a MOTU yet Seveas, but I plan to exactly know what has to be done by the time I get to be one. Which is why I ask questions :)
<Seveas> :)
<siretart> you will be soon, I'm sure..
<raphink> :)
<Seveas> I think i'm at about 10% of what a MOTU needs to know ;)
<raphink> Seveas: that can increase fast enough :)
<raphink> I think I'm still a bit far too
<Seveas> It increases by practice
<Seveas> this keyboardcast thing is a nice first practice
<Seveas> Maybe I'll put up gnome-vfs-fuse in a few days once I finish it
<raphink> and of quite good quality :)
* raphink needs to practice bug reports and fixes
<raphink> Seveas: did you work on malone yourself?
<Seveas> not too much
<Seveas> But I do a lot on bugzilla
<raphink> a bit though?
<sivang> siretart: iirc someone was going to give that lesson right?
<raphink> i'm a bit lost with malone
<sivang> siretart: (hand made debian/rules based package)
<raphink> don't really know where I shoud begin
<raphink> sivang: ajmitch on saturday
<siretart> sivang: there is an idea, but I think nobody has yet agreed to actually give the lesson
<sivang> raphink: cool
<sivang> siretart: we can just make it a very small package
<siretart> sivang: you want to give the lesson? ;)
<sivang> siretart: which would simplify the lesson alot, and suffice to demonstrate the principles
<sivang> siretart: me? :)
<sivang> I don't think I could give such a lesson. You might be a better candidate :)
<sivang> you're already approved for main, which measn you reached the point where you know what you are doing :)
<siretart> we'll see when I have time. it might be a good practice for my NM application as well..
<raphink> how do I mark a bug as fixed in malone siretart ?
<siretart> raphink: klick on 'NEW'
<siretart> raphink: or use lpbugs.py
<raphink> well I'm working on malone now so clicking on NEW is easy ;)
<raphink> I just put fixed and that's it?
<siretart> if the package has built on all archs, yes
<raphink> siretart: this bug is not true. Do I have to put a special marker on it like `Wontfix' ?
<siretart> it is called 'rejected'
<raphink> ok
<raphink> so it's not fixed, but rejected instead
<raphink> and no additional info
<siretart> put some comments in the text field below why you reject a bug
<raphink> I commented the bug already
<siretart> can be short, but it will be in the status mails. status mails rejecting bugs without explanation are somewhat suspicous
<raphink> can you have a look ? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rpm/+bug/5344
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5344: rpm  depends on universe library In: rpm (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Raphink, Status: Rejected https://launchpad.net/bugs/5344
<raphink> hmm ok so I should leave a comment when rejecting the bug
<siretart> in this case it is okay, because the bug is assigned to you
<siretart> so only you get the status mail
<siretart> I thought you were talking about bugs assigned to MOTU
<raphink> no
<raphink> I assigned the bug to myself
<raphink> it was not assigned to anybody
<raphink> I can do that, can't I?
<raphink> :s
<siretart> sure
<siretart> then you take responsibility over the bug :)
<raphink> :) ok
<raphink> I take the entire responsability over this non-existing bug ;)
<raphink> hehe
<shawarma> What is the easiest way to fetch the source for the automatically merged packages?
<shawarma> It seems that doing it via a web browser is less than elegant. is there a deb-src repo?
<dholbach> shawarma: add debian sources to apt/sources.list, and run    apt-get source -t sid <srcpackage>
<dholbach> this is the last moment to raise objections against review day on 10th/11th
<TheMuso> shawarma: If you mean the packages that need work on them etc, I use lftp and just do a mirror packagename within the ongoing-merge directory.
<dholbach> and to propose a better announcement than http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReviewDayAnnouncement
<shawarma> dholbach: And then fetch the _merged.debdiff from web?
<dholbach> shawarma: however you like it
<dholbach> shawarma: but that's a possibility, yes
<sivang> shawarma, dholbach : this should be documented somewhere
<shawarma> TheMuso: lftp, eh?
* TheMuso grabs the stuff from Scott's repo, grabs current version in dapper, and latest deb unstable version.
<TheMuso> shawarma: Yes, the mirror command allows you to grab entire directories, and everything in them.
<dholbach> sivang: if it's not on the MOTUToMerge page or somewhere else on the wiki, i fear, no
<shawarma> TheMuso: interesting. Thanks!
<sivang> dholbach: so we probably need to put it there. When I am approaching a merge I want to have all neccessary info aside me.
<dholbach> sivang: i don't know, if it helps that much
<sivang> dholbach: but that gets you only the sid package, not the "merged" one as shawarma  wanted, no?
<sivang> dholbach: right. I agree
<dholbach> sivang: merging is a process, where you have to judge all the information you see in a diff
<dholbach> sivang: MoM can help with that, but it's not perfect, or we would auto-merge
<sivang> dholbach: sure, so there is no really "merged" source pkg, or if the merge went fine and there is, then it's a regular ubuntu package
<dholbach> i don't fully understand
<sivang> dholbach: regular ubuntu source pkg that is
<TheMuso> I have seen unassigned packages that have had no dropped patch file in their directory.
<sivang> TheMuso: hmm, then why were they assigned or need work?
<raphink> dholbach: can programs under a derivative of the Mozilla Public Licence be included in universe?
<TheMuso> sivang: Thats the question I have been asking myself, and haven't bothered chacing that up yet.
<TheMuso> There are others that do have dropped stuff that need work.
<dholbach> sivang: that's your task to have a ubuntu source package (or sync from debian, if they have all the necessary changes)
<dholbach> raphink: that depends on the derivative, i guess
<dholbach> raphink: i'm no license expert, sorry
<raphink> dholbach: it seems the License just changes Mozilla to the current program
<raphink> otherwise it's a MPL 1.1
<raphink> which seems to be compatible with GPL components
<TheMuso> shawarma: BTW it is documented to a point here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMergeTips
<shawarma> TheMuso: I'll take a look. Thanks
<dholbach> raphink: maybe you write to the mailing list about it
<dholbach> raphink: u-devel@ that is
<dholbach> new beagle? :)
<shawarma> Is people.ubuntu.com supposed to respond to ftp requests?
<shawarma> never mind
<TheMuso> Could anybody possibly explain why a package gets renamed, for example libibtk0 to libibtk0c2?
<sivang> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMergeTips
<shawarma> On that page it says:
<shawarma> * BUG Title Format: Title: <sourcepackage-name>: merge new debian version
<shawarma> ...so for privoxy the title should be "Title: privoxy: merge new debian version" ?
<shawarma> That's just weird.
<TheMuso> shawarma: I strongly suggest you use the lpbugs.py script. Makes things heaps easier.
<shawarma> Where can I find that?
<TheMuso> I could not have managed the ones I have done so far by hand.
* TheMuso digs for the link.
<shawarma> Nevertheless.. Is the title really supposed to be "Title: blahblah" ?
<TheMuso> bzr branch  http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/
<TheMuso> You need bzr installed to grab it, and just use that command. It is stored in a bzr repo.
<TheMuso> shawarma: Are you on the universe-bugs mailing list?
<TheMuso> I suggest you go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge to read up on what has to be done to do a merge.
<shawarma> TheMuso: I'm looking at it right now.
<shawarma> TheMuso: That's the page telling me to set the title to "Title: blahbla"..
<TheMuso> Yeah. I will show you a sample from one I have done. Hold on a sec.
<TheMuso> MOM: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/libibtk
<TheMuso> MOTU: TheMuso
<TheMuso> Status: to be merged
<TheMuso> Now if you look at the wiki page, you will see what they are saying you have to enter is practically the same as what I have just shown you.
<shawarma> Right.
<shawarma> well, maybe it'll make more sense when I see the lpbugs interface.
<shawarma> Right now it just looks weird that I'm required to prefix the title with "title: "
<TheMuso> You don't prefix the title with title: They are ferring to the bug form in which you enter the data.
<TheMuso> So like this.
<TheMuso> libibtk: merge new debian version
<TheMuso> That goes in the title field.
<TheMuso> I thought it a bit teedious when I read through it, but when I was pointed to the various scripts and tools that make doing such tasks a lot easier, I dthought otherwise, and let the script do it for me. :)
<TheMuso> Another nice thing about the script is that it clearsigns the data with your GPG key.
<shawarma> I see.
<shawarma> It's not very transparent, though.
<TheMuso> What exactly do you mean?
<shawarma> For the info on the page to make sense, you need to know about a tool that is not listed on the page.
<shawarma> Check out the motutomerge page and imagine you know nothing about lpbugs and see what it says about the title of the bug.
<TheMuso> You don't need to know about the tool, it just makes things easier. I am sure there are people who manually enter the data required.
<TheMuso> Yeah I know where you are coming from. I have read that page several times today, and several more last night.
<shawarma> I read somewhere that it was REALLY important that I set the title according to the documentation, so if I had entered the bug in the web interface, I would have set it to "Title: blahblahb".. Maybe I'm the only one who actually believes stuff I read. :-)
<TheMuso> Different interpretations of what is being asked I guess.
<TheMuso> Yes I agree that the wording could be somewhat different.
<TheMuso> I sometimes don't think that point form does the docs justice.
<TheMuso> Anyway, I am sure the creaters are aware of some of these issues that have been raised.
<shawarma> Probably.
<TheMuso> Anyway, I really must get to bed. I hope I have been some help, and apologise for not being able to help you further at this point. There is also the mailing list if you have any questions, i.e the ubuntu-motu list. Merges don't have to be done straight away, especially bigger merges. :)
<TheMuso> Straight away as in an hour or two.
<shawarma> You definitely did help. Thanks a lot!
<shawarma> Sleep well.
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<TheMuso> And good luck.
<crimsun> 'morning
<sivang> morning crimsun
<crimsun> hi sivang :)
<\sh> moins
<crimsun> re \sh
<shawarma> I have to say I'm pretty confused regarding doing these merges..
<crimsun> what are you confused about?
<shawarma> I've created (using lpbugs.py) a bug saying that I'm working on the merge.
<shawarma> so far so good..
<shawarma> Now I'm supposed to upload a debdiff to malone, right?
<crimsun> yes, for that bug #
<\sh> shawarma: yes
<shawarma> Will lpbugs help me do that or do I use the web interface..
<shawarma> ?
<\sh> shawarma: webinterface...
<crimsun> attach it
<\sh> shawarma: right now, I don't know how to add an attachement via mail interface to this bug
<shawarma> Ok.. The debdiff is between which revisions?
<shawarma> The old ubuntu pkg, the new debian package or?
<crimsun> against the newest in Sid against which the MoM is done
<shawarma> I mean, between the old ubuntu package and the merged one?
<\sh> the old ubuntu package and the new ubuntu package...if it's a sync there is no debdiff at all
<shawarma> \sh: It's a merge.
<\sh> shawarma: so then debdiff between old and new
<\sh> ah no....
<StevenK> Blargh.
<\sh> new and new
* StevenK gets up after five hours sleep.
<crimsun> re steve
<shawarma> Ok, I'm only slightly less confused now. :-D
<\sh> shawarma: me too...no actually it's better to have a debdiff between the debian package and the new ubuntu package#
<crimsun> shawarma: the MoM's done against the current Dapper and the current Sid, so your debdiff will be between current Sid and current Dapper+necessary changes
<\sh> that's the easiest way to achieve it
<shawarma> Ok... I think I got it..
<shawarma> so something similar to the pkgname_merged.patch found in MoM?
<shawarma> er..
<crimsun> shawarma: perhaps it's easiest to think of it this way: We always prefer a sync wherever possible (fewer maintenance headaches), thus our base is always what's in Sid. When you're doing a merge, you have to fix something specific to Dapper in the Sid package
<shawarma> the pkg_name.debdiff, I mean.
<shawarma> crimsun: That makes sense.
<shawarma> crimsun: This particular package needs changes, though. (it has an init script, so it does log_begin_msg and stuff)
<crimsun> REPORT should give you a good starting point
<shawarma> crimsun: It does.
<crimsun> essentially always check first if the Ubuntu changes have been subsumed by Debian. If so, then you just have to forward-port anything specific to Ubuntu
<StevenK> I went to bed at 7pm to catch up on sleep, and my lovely wife woke me at midnight for the CC meeting.
<shawarma> crimsun: Right. And those few ubuntu-specifics are supposed to be the only thing in the debdiff, right?
<crimsun> shawarma: if that's all that's needed, yep
<crimsun> StevenK: ouch
<shawarma> crimsun: Great. Thanks!
* StevenK ponders doing a merge before the CC meeting. :-P
<StevenK> crimsun: Can I get you to eyeball a (large) debdiff?
<crimsun> StevenK: sure
<StevenK> crimsun: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/moin_1.3.5-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<crimsun> no kidding, that's a behemoth
<StevenK> Yeah.
<crimsun> StevenK: is the following necessary?
<crimsun> +ifneq (,$(findstring python22,$(DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS)))
<crimsun> +# Required on woody, were default python is too old
<crimsun> +pythonver = 2.2
<crimsun> +DEB_PYTHON_COMPILE_VERSION := 2.2
<crimsun> +else
<crimsun> +pythonver = 2.4
<crimsun> +endif
<StevenK> crimsun: No. I suspect I can kill that since I've touched the rest of debian/rules.
<crimsun> ok. That's the only thing that jumped out at initial run-through
<LaserJock> hi crimsun
<StevenK> Right.
<crimsun> LaserJock: hi
<zakame> hello
<crimsun> hi zakame
<zakame> evening crimsun :-)
* ogra sees azeem on the CC agenda 
<ogra> YAY
<crimsun> yeah, we have a bunch of worthy guys :)
<dholbach> oh wow
<LaserJock> sweet
<zakame> woohoo :D
<Kyral> 4 minutes CRAP
<shawarma> crimsun: Hmmm.... If I theoretically just took the debian-version and applied the very few patches needed for ubuntu.. what about the changelog? It will be missing the earlier ubuntu revisions, won't it?
* Kyral rolls out of bed
* LaserJock slap Kyral awake. "Get it together man!"
<Kyral> I know I know :D
<crimsun> shawarma: don't discard changelogs.
<Kyral> Bed felt so nice :D
<shawarma> crimsun: Exactly... so the changelog should be maintained under all circumstances?
<shawarma> crimsun: Yeah, that makes sense.
<crimsun> shawarma: yep
<Kyral> Lets rock and roll :D
<zakame> YAY! lucene finally builds
<derekS> whats the wiki page to request a program be packaged?
<Kyral> UniverseCanditates?
<derekS> Kyral: thanks
<shawarma> crimsun: So, if A is the most recent ubuntu revision of package X, B is the debian revision upon which A is based, and C is the revision currently in sid, the recipe is: From the diff between B and A, extract the changelog stuff and any other changes still relevant, apply to C (resulting in a new Ubuntu package, D) and create a debdiff between C and D, and that's what I'm supposed to upload, right?
<shawarma> crimsun: Are there any other exceptions apart from the changelog that should always survive?
<StevenK> shawarma: It's more complicated than that.
<shawarma> StevenK: How so?
<StevenK> shawarma: If a package builds unmodified from the version in sid, and works, it can be synced. No upload by you is necessary.
<shawarma> StevenK: Sure.
<shawarma> StevenK: I'm only considering the case where an actual merge is needed.
<zakame> shawarma: you could also read the MoM logs to determine whether sync/merge is necessary
<StevenK> shawarma: Right. Then yes, you're right.
<shawarma> StevenK: Great.
<shawarma> zakame: URL?
<zakame> shawarma: people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107.log
<Kyral> We still have to do that Three Line Intro thing right?
<zakame> yep
<StevenK> Heh. Mine isn't three lines.
<Kyral> So basically summerize the first paragraph of my Wiki :P
<crimsun> in the case of syncs, we may still need to merge. Take the example where the package is also a candidate for the libstdc++ allocator transition where Sid has adopted Ubuntu changes. In that case you'd still need to merge due to the libstdc++ allocator transition.
<crimsun> generally speaking, that's rare enough to not be spectacularly problematic
<zakame> yup, that's another important consideration
<shawarma> crimsun: I thought the very definition of "sync" was something that didn't need merging.
<shawarma> ...oh... sync is then there's currently no -ubuntu revision?
<crimsun> shawarma: the sync as I just used it above refers to the instance where a newer version in Sid builds fine in Dapper
<shawarma> crimsun: Ok.
<Kyral> how long do these normally go? I have class at 1100 EST :/
<Amaranth> tb or cc?
<Kyral> CC
<Amaranth> i guess either way it's 1-2 hours
<Kyral> Actually technically I have class at 1000
<Amaranth> i have class in 30 minutes ago
<Kyral> but I always blow it off...its a glorified study hall
<zakame> I'd venture 3, with this agenda
<Kyral> .....
<Kyral> Crap....
<Kyral> The Forums Issue is gonna blow up...
<Kyral> I had a flamewar over it last weekend
<Kyral> I think its better that Kass isn't there now...
<Kyral> Wasn't it only supposed to be 3 lines? lol
<zakame> hehe I remember mine spilled to 4
<Kyral> yah but thats liek what? 10?
<StevenK> Mine looks to be 6 or 7
<Kyral> I'm just going to sum up my intro paragraph
<Kyral> and per my style, wing it completely :D
<LaserJock> lol
<zakame> er its three here (though then again, I'm on 1280x960)
<Kyral> lol
<zakame> hehe
<zakame> then again, mine also went up to 7, considering the return
<raphink> oh there's a second discussio nhere ;)
<raphink> hehe
<zakame> hey Nafallo
<Nafallo> morning :-)
<Nafallo> [16:26]  < Nafallo> morning :-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<crimsun> congrats, LaserJock
<Kyral> Nice one my friend
<Kyral> now my turn :D
<raphink> :)
<raphink> good luck Kyral :)
<zakame> go rock Kyral :)
* raphink modifies a bit his "3-line-presentation" from time to time... it's not more than 3 lines for sure ;)
<LaserJock> go Kyral
<Kyral> I like things short and sweet :D
<Kyral> and thats like 4 lines on my screen
<jsgotangco> :P
* zakame should read the Forums more often
<jsgotangco> half of it is good, half of it not soo good
<jsgotangco> half of which seem to like automatix..
<crimsun> heh, if you think automatix is bad, you should have seen ubuntuguide in its heyday
<Treenaks> crimsun: now combine
<crimsun> the wee bit o' drama I've read about it makes me want to stab my eyes out
<Amaranth> crimsun: automatix freaking makes a root user and does --force-yes
<Amaranth> --force-yes will say yes to system breaking things too, won't it?
<Amaranth> ones where apt makes you type in "I know what I'm doing" or whatever
<Kyral> Wait is that yes or no lol
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure that was a yes
<crimsun> congrats chris
<LaserJock> what to go man!
* Kyral hugs everyone
<LaserJock> s/what/way/
<\sh> congrats kyral :)
<Amaranth> Kyral: email! :P
* crimsun scurries off for another meeting
<Kyral> yah that has to get setup right?
<Amaranth> Kyral: No, I meant don't forget to email me your log. :)
<Kyral> oh lool
<Kyral> we do get that eventually I think lol
<Kyral> Gotta love Irssi from class :D
<raphink> lol
<Kyral> raphink: did you get in?
<raphink> nope
* Kyral looks at LJ
<raphink> LJ?
<Kyral> LaserJock:
<LaserJock> Kyral: yeah?
<Kyral> Party time? :D
<raphink> oh ok
<raphink> hehe
<LaserJock> Kyral: ohhh, yeah. except I have class in a bit
<Kyral> lol I'm IN class ;P
<LaserJock> Kyral: and I have to report a bug in Gnome to get a Science menu
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> we ping Seveas to get hostmasks right?
<StevenK> Whee.
* StevenK buggers off to bed.
<LaserJock> Kyral: I guess. I don't know that I care.
<Kyral> I'm used to using a hostmask on IRC lol
<zakame> er who did I miss? :)
<Kyral> huh?
<zakame> Kyral: are you in now? :)
<zakame> I got cut off, power here b0rked :(
<Kyral> Yup
<Kyral> so is LaserJock
<siretart> StevenK: grats to membership!
<siretart> sorry that I couldn't attend, boss was in this room
<zakame> YAY for Kyral and StevenK !!!
<LaserJock> siretart: man I hate that when that happens
<Kyral> and LaserJock
<zakame> and LaserJock !!!
<Kyral> siretart: its called tabbing down the window/moving it to another workspace
<Kyral> ;P
<siretart> Kyral: LaserJock: congrats to you too!
<LaserJock> siretart: thanks. and thanks again for that MOTUScience ML
<siretart> no problem
<Kyral> I think I have new email addy to add to my Key now...
* zakame now tries to upload lucene source to upload
<Seveas> Kyral, ?
<zakame> Kyral: ooh
<Kyral> huh?
<LaserJock> Kyral: hostmask?
<Kyral> yea
<LaserJock> Seveas: is there anything post-membership that we need to do?
<zakame> LaserJock: er you could ask for a ubuntu cloak ;)
<Kyral> zakame: I want one :D
<Seveas> LaserJock, only making sure that you respect the CoC and continue contributing
<Seveas> Kyral, k
<zakame> and yes, a signed CoC on LP
<Kyral> ..the Forum issue is about to go WRONG fast
<LaserJock> Seveas: ok , will do ;-)
<zakame> hey JohnnyMast :D
<JohnnyMast> hey m8, everything okey around here ?
<JohnnyMast> w00t 30 emails ?
<JohnnyMast> you guys have been bussy last night
<zakame> just missed the CC meeting :D
<JohnnyMast> i know i was off the list
<JohnnyMast> and i was gone buying some cloths
<JohnnyMast> kryrel was in the meeting right ?
<Kyral> yah
<JohnnyMast> and my man ?
<Kyral> Now trying to control the Forums Issue again
<JohnnyMast> are you a member now ?
<Kyral> Yes
<Kyral> :D
<JohnnyMast> congrates man !
<Kyral> As is LaserJock
<JohnnyMast> congrates LaserJock
<JohnnyMast> very god
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: thanks
<JohnnyMast> *good lol
<JohnnyMast> :)
<JohnnyMast> ok back to work ...
<JohnnyMast> lol im getting comercials about my own own ftpd
<Kyral> where is the Meeting Log?
<zakame> Kyral: at fabbione's
<zakame> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html iirc
<Kyral> That should be on the Community Council Page ;P
<JohnnyMast> brb coffie
* zakame looks for new merges to do
<Kyral> I really really hate this Forums issue
<jsgotangco> :)
<jsgotangco> interesting discussion going on indeed
<Kyral> People have to stuff their pride
<zakame> hm it has gone too long
<JohnnyMast> and i dont like overfull irc rooms like #ubuntu
<JohnnyMast> its just to much
<jsgotangco> zakame, its a different story now
<jsgotangco> ubuntugeek started trolling in -meeting just now
<Kyral> I know
<Kyral> I may have provoked that
<Kyral> I got into a "debate" with a Forums Mod in the Forums Channel
<zakame> jsgotangco: what? just after it ended?
<jsgotangco> zakame, no use going in now, he just went silent :)
<zakame> grrr
<jsgotangco> just check th elogs later :)
<jsgotangco> i'm going to sleep
<JohnnyMast> sleep well jsgotangco
<zakame> now that Kamion mentioned social I'm into socsci mode :)
<zakame> good dreams on jsgotangco
<JohnnyMast> zakeme i have a question, if you do a merge do you have to build the debian package or can you do debdiff against its dsc ?
<zakame> JohnnyMast: you would do best to test the merge first by building the package, then after that you can debdiff :)
<JohnnyMast> im reading Reinhards email
<JohnnyMast> both of the packages right ?
<zakame> JohnnyMast: build Debian's to see if you can sync, if not then apply the previous Ubuntu changes (and yours if need be), the update the changelog accordingly and build your newly merged version
<JohnnyMast> ok thats usefull information
<zakame> YAY!!! lucene got ACCEPTED!
<zakame> er but it failed on the buildLogs :(
<JohnnyMast> :)
<zakame> hm, it seems to call jikes, but it shouldn't :/
<thierry_> if I fix an unmet dep, do I send a patch to malone, or do I rebuild and send the .deb somewhere?
<zakame> just post the debdiff containing the fix to the relevant bug, and ping a MOTU
<zakame> :)
<thierry_> zakame : are you a MOTU ;)
<thierry_> ?
<zakame> yup
<thierry_> k, going to create the bug...
<zakame> thierry_: ok, I'll check it tomorrow, 'tis 1:30 am here :D
<thierry_> zakame : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xmule/+bug/5432
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5432: [PATCH]  xmule unmet dep In: xmule (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5432
<thierry_> or any other MOTU intesrested in checking this bug?
<thierry_> ajmitch : are you a MOTU?
<Kyral> oy I have been recruited to make custom AFS packages for my school
<zakame> Kyral: woot
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> so I'm a member. Now what lol
<slomo> Kyral: congrats :)
<slomo> thierry_: he is
<Kyral> don't I get a new addy or something...
<zakame> you will, just wait ;)
<Kyral> lol
<slomo> Kyral: $launchpad-id@ubuntu.com
<Kyral> Impatient I am now, energy I have :P
<Kyral> yah but does it have POP access ;p
<zakame> good early morning all! later! :D
<slomo> Kyral: nope... it forwards to your main launchpad email address
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> so I have to set Reply To
<slomo> or use a relay
<Kyral> ???
<Kyral> whats a relay?
<zakame> er smtp relay?
<siretart> thierry_: which version of xmule did you test?
<Kyral> yah wazzat?
<siretart> thierry_: I uploaded xmule on sunday, which should have this unmet dep fixed
<odla> i am curious if you guys know when flight-2 is schedule to be released?
<Amaranth> odla: I'm guessing when the kernels work again and everything in the ship seed is installable.
<siretart> odla: Kamion is working hard on it. it depends on his progress to fix the installer for new udev and kernel 2.6.15
<siretart> odla: he mentioned last week that we will try do get it ready this thursday, but honestly, I'd rather bet on next week thursday
* siretart is offline for today. cu tomorrow
<odla> thanks everyone
<thierry_> sirestart : it was 1.10.0b-1ubuntu1 ... and there was this in the list (wich is updated daily) Package xmule version 1.10.0b-1ubuntu1 has an unmet dep:
<thierry_>  Depends: libcrypto++5.2c2
<thierry_> siretart
<thierry_> so we forget about this?
<thierry_> siretart : is there any other way than rebuilding the package to know if the unmet dep has been fixed? I mean, couldn't we just update the list?
<lamont> lablgl_1.01-4ubuntu1 build-depends: ocaml-3.08.3 which no longer exists.  please fix that. kthxbye
<thierry_> I get this dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: scons libqt3-mt-dev libsigc++-1.2-dev libjack0.80.0-dev
<thierry_>  but they are in the control file? what's wrong?
<dholbach> do you have them installed?
<thierry_> dholbach: well I think that no... I just want to see what's the unmet deps needed by this package...
<dholbach> that's on your box
<dholbach> if you install the packages, the message will go away
<thierry_> dholbach : would it be safer to simply pbuilder build it ?
<dholbach> safer in what way?
<thierry_> forget it that's ok... but what should I do if the package just need a rebuild... ?
<thierry_> for this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps
<dholbach> look if we can do a merge or something useful before uploading a "no change" upload :)
<Kyral> ajmitch_: You use Irssi right?
<ajmitch_> yes
<Kyral> hmm I have a small idea to create a script that would allow you to control Apt from Irssi
<ajmitch_> why would you want to?
<Kyral> Because I'm too lazy sometimes to open a new terminal
<LaserJock> Kyral: lol, put it in motu-tools *g* we also need a motu-tools emacs mode ;-)
<ajmitch_> that's what screen is for
<Kyral> also the primary idea was to be able to search the cache and display the results in the channel
<ajmitch_> searching might get too many results
<Kyral> of course I'd build in limits
<Kyral> or instead of the normal format it would parse the output into something like a comma delimited list
<jamessan|work> Kyral: /exec -o
<jamessan|work> oh
<jamessan|work> yeah, that'd be nicer
<ajmitch_> sigh, f-spot bugs
<Kyral> I'm just wondering if there is enough interest for me to do it
<jamessan|work> you're interested, right?  that's enough  ;)
<Kyral> lol I meant to put it into a package :P
<jamessan|work> oh
<Kyral> Like enough to add it into the irssi-scripts package
<jamessan|work> *shrug*
<Kyral> Oh ajmitch_ the MOTUSchool is going to be at 1100 UTC?
<ajmitch_> not fixed yet
<Kyral> okay....because thats 5 AM for me ;P
<ajmitch_> and I suggested 1000 UTC
<ajmitch_> no kidding
<ajmitch_> the only other time I might suggest is 1800 UTC
<ajmitch_> ie, 7AM for me
<ajmitch_> I would need caffiene injections
<Kyral> 1 PM.....I could do that...
<Amaranth> Kyral: Can you email me that log?
<Amaranth> Kyral: alleykat@gmail.com
<Kyral> from?
<Amaranth> the one you mentioned in the meeting
<Amaranth> forums related
<Kyral> lemme find it
<ajmitch_> 1800 UTC might be inconvenient for people in australia
<Kyral> I dunno if I have it on this computer
<ajmitch_> of which there are a few
<Kyral> ajmitch_: anytime after oh....1500 UTC is good for me
<JohnnyMast> guys we might get a logo competition
<ajmitch_> I have to be awake though :P
<JohnnyMast> check out my post: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=549663#post549663
<ajmitch_> morning \sh
<Kyral> I hate timezones...
<\sh> JohnnyMast: please post this on ubuntu-motu ml...
<\sh> JohnnyMast: most of the devs are not reading the forums
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<Kyral> Gah I could use beagle now
<JohnnyMast> well, this was artwork-talk for hopefulls
<Kyral> Amaranth: its on my desktop in my room
<JohnnyMast> besdes
<JohnnyMast> it was on the ML already
<Kyral> Amaranth: I guess I don't have the log
<Kyral> of that fight
<Kyral> I must have not had logging in Irssi turned on
<Kyral> Sorry
<ajmitch_> Kyral: btw congrats on membership
<JohnnyMast> was there a fight ?
<Kyral> ty ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> now get working to get to MOTU :)
<Kyral> Yessir!
<LaserJock> yeah, I wonder if I will ever be a MOTU, I just don't know if I know enough about programming
<JohnnyMast> lol i didnt know ubuntu had a womans page
<ajmitch_> hey dholbach
<ajmitch_> LaserJock: we need to know programming?
<ajmitch_> hm, I'd better start learning ;)
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch_> good to see StevenK approved as well based on debian work
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I'm frustrated because I think I have a pretty good handle on the actual packaging part, but I am almost usless as a bug fixer (other than getting on upstream ;-) )
<ajmitch_> LaserJock: oh, so are some of the rest of us ;)
<LaserJock> ajmitch_: maybe.
<LaserJock> I'm just glad I was able to become a member
<ajmitch_> ah you did as well?
<ajmitch_> well done
<LaserJock> heck yeah ;-)
* ajmitch_ was skimming through the CC log
<Kyral> Yah we rock :D
<\sh> JohnnyMast: I'm in contact with the girl who created it...you will be surprised :) she's awesome
<JohnnyMast> my girl is a unix chick
<JohnnyMast> always wanted to date a developer
<JohnnyMast> *YeeeY im blessed*
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> JohnnyMast: and now she is stucked with you ;)
<JohnnyMast> yes and im here developer
<\sh> joking :)
<JohnnyMast> and we are thinking of developing kids
<JohnnyMast> :p
<ajmitch_> hah
<\sh> no..my next woman shouldn't have to do anything with a computer...she needs to be a wonderful, lovely mother and cook :)
<JohnnyMast> who says mine cant
<JohnnyMast> hehe
<JohnnyMast> hmm hey lads, i found something interesting to fill the wiki`s with
<JohnnyMast> (about packaging)
<JohnnyMast> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=51003&highlight=checkinstall
<Kyral> JohnnyMast: CheckInstall is evil
<ajmitch> please, don't even *think* about suggesting checkinstall :)
<JohnnyMast> ile code an own bashy for the building of new packages
<Kyral> yah you deserve to be smacked!
<JohnnyMast> come and get me :)
<JohnnyMast> it can be realy usefull
* Kyral pulls out a katana
<JohnnyMast> eek!
<JohnnyMast> ule see
<JohnnyMast> ile include it in my packing page
<Kyral> and it will knock your reputation to hell
<ajmitch> Kyral: the url he pasted doesn't actually mention checkinstall on the 1st post
<ajmitch> it's just a guide to using dh_mnake
<Kyral> oh lol
<ajmitch> dh_make, that is
<Kyral> overreaction sorry
<ajmitch> checkinstall is still not good
<JohnnyMast> why because things gets auto mated and it gets easyer ?
<Kyral> Because CheckInstall is a hack
<Kyral> No make clean debs
<ogra> because it omits all dependencys, isnt compliant to any standard and eats your children ...
<JohnnyMast> no i didnt mention checkinstall ppl
<Kyral> God kills a puppy everytime you use CheckInstall
<JohnnyMast> haha
<\sh> OH NO...NO PUPPIES PLS
<JohnnyMast> ile call my automated script newpull
<Kyral> People should learn how to do it the right way
<JohnnyMast> yes but its not for them
<JohnnyMast> its for ppl who already know
* odla thought God killed kittens not puppies
<\sh> god is not killing anybody...
<Kyral> thats for doing the "other" thing ;P
<odla> Kyral: the 'm' word?
* mitsuhiko is away: sleeping
<Kyral> odla: indeed :P
<odla> are there less cdrom drivers on the current builds than flight-1 cd?
<odla> because the current build didn't recognize my cdrom
<ogra> define current ... daily ?
<odla> ogra: yes daily
<odla> ogra: yesterday's daily
<ogra> thats fairly broken ...
<ogra> wait for flight 2
<ogra> will come end of the week
<odla> ogra: i was just going to install flight 1 and update it
<ogra> or this way ...
<ogra> the herdware detection is completely changed ... the installer doesnt reflect all changes yet
<\sh> "the herdware"? since when is a "gentoo dev group aka herd" a "ware"?
<odla> oh. it asks me to load my cdrom driver...so is the driver actually there?  i am running a dell inspiron 1100
<ogra> i'm just supporting a german gentoo guy in #ltsp :)
<ogra> teaching him bzr ...
<ogra> he wants to make an ebuild of student-control-panel ... i told him e's only allowed to do it with bzr *g*
<\sh> ogra: who?
<herve> hello
<ogra> \sh, aep
<ajmitch> hi herve
<Kyral> ...I think I'm beginning to hate the Forums...
<ajmitch> I always have
<Kyral> they stand in support of the PLF repos when I have pointed out exactly why they break machines
<Sepheebear> plf repos?
<herve> it's mandriva specific anyway, no?
<Kyral> Think the new incarnation of Marilarrat
<Sepheebear> gosh ppl will suffer any consequence just to not have to compile or package themselves
<Kyral> Thats my objection to Automatrix
<Kyral> and its time for me to solve it
<ajmitch> your only objection?
<Kyral> the biggest one
<\sh> Riddell: ping
<Riddell> \sh: hi
<\sh> Riddell: please check malone for digikam...it was on libstdc++ new allocator list :) can I close it?
<Riddell> \sh: depends if digikam has compiled or not
<dholbach> good night
<Riddell> not yet I note
<herve> night dholbach
<dholbach> bonne nuit, herve
<herve> :)
<\sh> Riddell: ok...i'll have a look...konserve I requested a sync yesterday.....I will adjust it towards .pot generation after sync...
<Amaranth> *sigh*
<Amaranth> I think the forums issue has blow up a bit.
<Amaranth> err, blown
<Riddell> \sh: I can't get showimg to compile.  current version doesn't like new kexif and rc2 version has linking errors
<Kyral> WTF they banned me
<Amaranth> kingbahamut is "ordering" channel ops to ban people
<Kyral> grr...
<\sh> Riddell: merghe?
<Kyral> Calm down Chris, Calm down....
<ajmitch> Kyral: from the forums as a whole?
<Riddell> \sh: yeah
* Kyral takes deep breaths
<Kyral> ajmitch: I haven't checked my account yet
<Kyral> no I'm still active in the website
<\sh> Riddell: url..I don't find it in bugzilla or on our list..
<ajmitch> Kyral: then there's nothing to worry about :)
<ajmitch> where have you been banned from on the forums?
<Kyral> the channel
<ajmitch> oh
<ajmitch> just irc?
<Kyral> yah, but still bans are a big deal to me
<Kyral> kicks are okay
<Riddell> \sh: no URL (but it needs to recompile against new libkipi)
<Kyral> bans on the other hand...
<\sh> ah
<ajmitch> sure, if I were banned from -devel, I'd care
<ajmitch> maybe even if I were banned from -motu
<ajmitch> I'd probably get more work done though :)
<Kyral> ajmitch: I used the Forums as most of my support
<\sh> Riddell: showimg 0.9.4.1-3 then
* Kyral goes to cool off
<Kyral> Sorry guys :D
<Kyral> I'm laid back until someone pushes me on an issue I care about
<Riddell> \sh: yeah, it doesn't like new kipi, expects a header which isn't there
<\sh> Riddell: lemme check
<\sh> Riddell: ping amu for ppc errors...and he would like to help to fix serious bugs in kde...
<herve> Kyral, you want occupation? :-)
<\sh> and I hope a sempron64 will compile 32bit sources at least twice as fast as my nc6000 :)
<ajmitch> \sh: sigh, can you get me one? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: 450euros
<ajmitch> fairly cheap
<ajmitch> shipping would probably be just as much
<\sh> ajmitch: including german tax...excluding shipping costs and NZ customers
<\sh> customs even
<herve> \sh, assembled or from a manufacturer?
<\sh> herve: assembled :)
* ajmitch was pricing up a nice dual core system a couple of days ago
<herve> ok, I understand the price :-)
<ajmitch> it'd be within my price range, but it'd set me back a fair bit
<ajmitch> 2x250GB SATA, 2x17" LCD panels, 2GB RAM..
* ajmitch would be eating noodles & dry bread for the next 3 months
<\sh> herve: well it's only a 1.6GHz one..but at least an amd64 :)
<ogra> 1.6Ghz is plenty
<herve> how many fps? ;-)
<\sh> herve: hehe....nvidia 5200
<\sh> 128MB
<\sh> but without a monitor quite useless :)
<\sh> and without windows :)
<herve> it deserved a 20" at least!
<herve> what for anyway!
<\sh> -ENOMONEY
<ajmitch> \sh: what are job prospects looking like?
<herve> you have yourself be offered for christmas :-)
<ajmitch> have you been laid off at your job?
<\sh> herve: well...yes...but I need as well money for s o n :)
<\sh> ajmitch: it looks like that I have to leave my job soon...and even if I'm not forced to go...I want to go
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> you're the last of the 'old guard' now? :)
<\sh> old guard?
<herve> old school :-)
<\sh> i'm actually the last linux addict there..since ogra left
<ajmitch> yeah, time to move on
<ajmitch> if you don't get a job at canonical I know I've got *no* chance ;)
<herve> canonical or the foundation?
<ajmitch> either
<\sh> ajmitch: again..I didn't apply, but mark has my cv..that's all...what they do with it...I don't mind...I want a nice job..that's all
<ajmitch> I don't know who the foundation has hired
<\sh> canonical even...
<ajmitch> Amaranth: the forums channel seems to be a simmering puddle of egos & hating ;)
<ajmitch> looks like a waste of time
<Amaranth> ajmitch: Yeah, I joined trying to find out the reasoning behind recent decisions, kind of got sucked in.
<ajmitch> it's amazing how much friendlier the motu channel is :)
<ajmitch> perhaps it's because we're all trying to actually do something & get visible results
<herve> I can tell!
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> yah I love you guys
* Kyral hugs the channel
<ajmitch> ah, more hugs
<ajmitch> look what dholbach has started
<herve> I don't imagine on #ubuntu-love!
<\sh> good to know that there is no ubuntu motu fck day :) think about what this will be ;)
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> bad \sh
<\sh> hehe
<Kyral> \sh: I don't swing that way sorry ;P
<\sh> i forgot the "s" in fck :)
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> sorry..
<Kyral> what we all umount our drives and see who's fsck finishes first?
<\sh> Kyral: why not :)
<ajmitch> sure..
<herve> mine's bigger ;-)
* ajmitch only has about 8 volumes mounted
<Kyral> lol
* ajmitch split up his drives into a few LVM volumes
<ajmitch> for some reason
<\sh> herve: there is no evidence :)
<\sh> herve: but you are a french guy...so I believe you :)
* \sh giggles
<herve> hu? what about french hard disks?
<herve> ;-)
<\sh> herve: they are bigger...you said it ;)
<Kyral> I have a 300 GB IDE
<\sh> mine is only 20MB but 8" ,)
<ajmitch> enough of the disk-waving contests thanks
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I o/c my AthlonXP to 2.3 up from 2.1
<ajmitch> wow, u r so 1337 ;)
* StevenK waves.
<ajmitch> morning StevenK, well done
<\sh> hey steven....:) congrats btw
* Kyral stabs ajmitch for calling him 1337
<StevenK> ajmitch, \sh: Thanks. :-)
<StevenK> But now what happens? I just wait, and I'll get a mail telling me what happens next?
<\sh> StevenK: so you will be a motu soon :)
<\sh> StevenK: and then main :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: no, you work harder than you've ever worked before
<StevenK> I see \sh has big plans for me.
<ajmitch> and you present yourself humbly at the TB meeting asking to be a MOTU
<\sh> StevenK: and I heard you developed a package "test tool" ?
<ajmitch> \sh: linda
<Kyral> Seveas: stay put ;P
<Seveas> ghe
<Seveas> I'm feeding Ubugtu Ubotu's facts
<Seveas> but I'm feeding too fast :)
<ajmitch> ubotu died overnight?
<\sh> StevenK: if ajmitch is right (sorry...I never look on the "Developers Name") ... then you are the right candidate for another lecture in "ubuntus motu school" :)
<ajmitch> \sh: definitely, he's been a DD far longer than I have
<ajmitch> he is the man to go to for any packaging questions
<\sh> ajmitch: you do your lecture on the 10th :) at 17UTC :)
<Kyral> noon EST
<ajmitch> yay, lucky me
<ajmitch> sorry for anyone living in australia
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | Grab your merge here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new | sign up for ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com now! | Next Lecture on #ubuntu-motu-school: Andrew Mitchell : "Packaging without debhelper or CDBS" - Date/Time: 10th Dec
<\sh> argl
<StevenK> What about packaging by using mkdir, mv, tar and ar? :-P
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | Grab your merge here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new | sign up for ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com now! | #ubuntu-motu-school: Title: "Packaging without debhelper or CDBS" - 2005-12-10/17UTC
<TheMuso> \sh: You may have seen my post on the motu mailing list about package renaming, specifically libibtk0 being renamed to libibtk0c2. You were the one who made this change to the previous Ubuntu version that is currently in the archives, would you mind explaining why? If so, that would be great, thanks.
<\sh> TheMuso: I think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CxxLibraryList will explain this...it was a cxx transition for breezy
* StevenK sods off to work.
<\sh> TheMuso: actually I wrote a mail on d-d which gives as well some pointers to dokos cxx transition plans during breezy and as well nowadays for dapper
<\sh> (and for debian as well)
<ajmitch> I see it wasn't renamed in debian, did it export a C++ interface?
<chillywilly> you're giving an IRC lecture?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: forums channel looks to be a grand waste of time
<ajmitch> chillywilly: sadly
<TheMuso> \sh: Thanks, wil have a look.
<\sh> ajmitch: your ubuntu.com address is ajmitch
<\sh> @ right?
<Ubugtu> I have no idea, \sh.
<\sh> Ubugtu: me neither, that's why i'm asking..thx
<Ubugtu> Dunno!
<\sh> hehee
<\sh> Seveas: fix the parser :)
<ajmitch> \sh: yes
<ajmitch> \sh: looks to be c++ headers that get installed
<\sh> ajmitch: most of the times...sometimes doko was wrong, so I was wrong
<Kyral> Hey Seveas
<Seveas> \sh, im trying to let ubugtu dupe as infobot
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> \sh: why do you need my ubuntu.com email address? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: you will see :)
* ajmitch fears
<Kyral> actually when do those get setup
<ajmitch> Kyral: they should just work, assuming you have signed the CoC
<Kyral> ah
<seth_k> Kyral, as soon as you're marked as a member in Launchpad
<Kyral> so I should just try to email myself and see if it redirects?
<seth_k> yep
<seth_k> that's what I did
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> cool....
* Kyral feels all like official and stuff
<seth_k> and upload new versions of your REVU packages
<seth_k> using your @ubuntu address in changelog
<Kyral> oyah
<Kyral> I need to add it to my Key now :P
<seth_k> yeah
<seth_k> and then poke sire*tart (remove *) to update REVU's keyring
<Kyral> its <launchpad>@ubuntu.com right?
<seth_k> right
<seth_k> like mine is seth@ubuntu.com
<Kyral> so I would be petermcv@ubuntu.com
<JohnnyMast> why not Kyral@ubuntu.com ?
<Kyral> because my launchpad is petermcv
<JohnnyMast> thats easyer for your MOTU buddy`s
<JohnnyMast> aaah
<JohnnyMast> kk
<seth_k> Kyral, imo change your launchpad DI
<seth_k> ID
<seth_k> you can do that in Edit Details
<Kyral> ah
<ajmitch> \sh: you have mailed -motu?
<JohnnyMast> then mine will be (when i ever become member) rave@ubuntu,com
<\sh> ajmitch: I'm going to
<seth_k> my launchpad ID was seth-sethkinast
<seth_k> but I mailed the guy who had seth
<seth_k> and begged him to change :P
<Kyral> I need to ping Seveas to get my hostmask active (forget that I don't know the command to turn it on ;p)
<\sh> ajmitch: since when are you motu and dd?
<seth_k> you don't turn it on / off
<Kyral> eh?
<seth_k> NickServ just sets it methinks
<ajmitch> \sh: feburary or so?
<seth_k> but it takes 3+ days to activate
<\sh> ajmitch: 2005?
<Kyral> ah
<ajmitch> might have been january
<ajmitch> yeah
<Kyral> ah ah
<ajmitch> \sh: I hope you're not writing up stuff about me
<ajmitch> I'd have to do something then
<\sh> ajmitch:
<\sh> About Andrew Mitchell:
<\sh> Andrew is Debian Developer and MOTU since January 2005. Actually to become a Debian Developer (abbrev.: DD) you will start as "Padawan", so you learn packaging from the ground. To speak of a "Master of the Universe" (abbrev.: MOTU) he is one of our heros in several transitions and merge runs. He knows what he is doing and is always very sensible to do no mistakes in his packages.
<\sh> His opinions and views are appreciated all over the MOTUs.
<ajmitch> no mistakes?!?
<ajmitch> haha
<\sh> ajmitch: it's PR :)
<\sh> ajmitch: don't complain :)
<sivang> \sh: what are you writing this for? :)
<\sh> sivang: wait..and read -motu, fridge, -devel, -users
* ajmitch cries
<sivang> \sh: am I there?
<ajmitch> sivang: you can do it if you want!
<sivang> ajmitch: you mean, write the next motu report?
<sivang> :-)
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> he's not writing a motu report
<sivang> ajmitch: then what *is* he writing? ,)
<\sh> _THE_ annoucement
<\sh> announcement even
<sivang> ah
<sivang> the announcment about motu-school!
<sivang> MOUHHAHA
<sivang> world domination, here we come
<JohnnyMast> lol
<sivang> \sh: me LIKE linkedIn. and jane and cory are already linked to you
<\sh> DONE
<\sh> sivang: jepp
<\sh> hah
<\sh> I'm so proud to have ajmitch speaking :)
<sivang> I really look forward to his "pkg from scratch" lecture
<ajmitch> \sh: I'm not :P
<\sh> ajmitch: thx for your work...don't forget a nice presentation :) It's appreaciated :)
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> I'll be preparing all day saturday :)
<\sh> strike..it's there
<slomo> poor ajmitch ;)
<sivang> hehe
<ajmitch> slomo: you should be doing this, not me
<ajmitch> you're a main uploader now
<slomo> you too... but additionally you're a DD :P but this lecture will be something i want to hear too because i never created a package without debhelper
<\sh> ajmitch: and..? do you like it?
* ajmitch hasn't seen it yet
<ajmitch> slomo: one can become a DD with a frightening lack of knowledge ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: well...I put it on the planet as well :)
<slomo> ajmitch: yes, like marillat... i had again one package today where he made _everything_ wrong while updating to new upstream...
<\sh> to reach a wider audience
<ajmitch> \sh is out to get me ;)
* sivang will read this tomorrow
<sivang> have to hit bed now
<\sh> ajmitch: thx to kyral...without him...I wouldn't have this idea...
<\sh> ajmitch: kill him not the messenger :)
* ajmitch has a lot to learn by sunday morning
<ajmitch> Who: Andrew Mitchell __at___ ubuntu dot com>
<ajmitch> huh?
<\sh> argl..HTML sucks
<ajmitch> yeah, the layout on your blog looks very ugly
<ajmitch> line breaks in all the wrong places :)
<\sh> ajmitch: it's c'n
<\sh> 'p
<sivang> good night guys! I have to get up early tomorrow :-/
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> night sivang
<slomo> gn8 sivang
<\sh> ajmitch: and I won't change it now
<\sh> only the mail address
<slomo> hm, it's fine here
<slomo> (the mail address)
* sivang nights everyone else and detaches
<\sh> cu sivang
<\sh> slomo: now :) i fixed it
<slomo> oh i thought you meant the mail ;)
<slomo> nm
<\sh> slomo: oh...no..the blog entru
<\sh> entry
* sivang .oO( thanks \sh for the linked in invitation, I will add my profile there ASAP)
<\sh> sivang: you are welcome :)
<\sh> ajmitch: it's not to bad, isn't it?
<\sh> too even
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> I'm just worried that I don't know enough ;)
<seth_k> Kyral, ping
<Kyral> PONG!
<seth_k> are you banned from ubuntuforums yet
<seth_k> I just got banned
<Kyral> yup
<herve> good night!
<ajmitch> from the channel or the forums proper?
<seth_k> forums proper
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> lucky you
<Kyral> oh
<Kyral> I am banned from channel
<seth_k> oh
<JohnnyMast> LaserJock are you here ?
* ajmitch has never posted on the forums :)
<JohnnyMast> LaserJock, ping
<seth_k> ajmitch, wise choice :P the forums are insane, and run by insane admins. however, new users are much more likely to use forums than IRC, so it's important to take care of them :(
<seth_k> Kyral, please check wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda and add your name under mine, about the banned part
<Kyral> I'm still allowed into the Forums themselves
<Kyral> I'm just banned from the channel ATM
<seth_k> what did you do to make them angry
<Kyral> Opposed Arnieboy it seems
<seth_k> yeah, same here
<seth_k> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=99866
<seth_k> where is anything that I said in that thread offensive :P
<seth_k> it's 100% the truth
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: yeah?
<Kyral> I haven't posted in there
<Kyral> because I know if I do it will be a flamefest
<Kyral> I am restraining myself :D
<seth_k> you missed your chance
<seth_k> locked now
<seth_k> but I sure as shooting am not going to back down on this one, and I would like my account back to boot, it had hundreds of posts and was one of the main factors in my gaining Membership
<Kyral> As is mine
<Kyral> which is why I'm not going off
* Kyral takes this opportunity to register an alt nick
<seth_k> haha
<Kyral> ty Seveas for getting the cloak up
* ajmitch wonders if we can tone down the talk a bit & do some explaining of the various dh_* tools as it progresses
<Kyral> ajmitch: for?
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: did you need something? I gotta get to a meeting
<JohnnyMast> ow well then we save what i wanted to ask
<JohnnyMast> its not important
<Kyral> okay time to link nicks
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: go for it
<JohnnyMast> i wanted to ask if you wanted to help on my wiki on merging
<JohnnyMast> if you have time
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: what is the url?
<JohnnyMast> hold on
<Kyral> done :D
<JohnnyMast> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Merging
<Kyral> linked!
<Kyral> How many nicks can I link anyway?
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: ok, cool. I will look at it tonight
<JohnnyMast> LaserJock your the man
<JohnnyMast> thanks :)
<JohnnyMast_AFK> sleep well ppl
<Kyral> seth_k|away: dangit :P
<Kyral> To change my Launchpad ID I change Name?
<minghua> crap.  after the libstdc++ allocator transition scim is starting to crash gaim
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-04
<luisbg> joejaxx, ping!
<luisbg> LaserJock, ping!
<joejaxx> ?
<luisbg> joejaxx, join ubuntu studio now
<LaserJock> luisbg: what?
<joejaxx> ? lol
<jdong> [Sun Dec 03 17:02:42 2006]  [error]  [client 82.96.96.3]  File does not exist: /var
<joejaxx> luisbg: i am already there
<luisbg> we got a cinelerra developer in ubuntu studio right now
<jdong>  /www/i/know.where.you.live.and.will.hunt.you.down.{censored racial slur}
<joejaxx> jdong: haha
<jdong> lovely :)
<luisbg> he is very interested in packaging it for ubuntu
<joejaxx> oh no
<luisbg> and becoming part of the ubuntu community
<joejaxx> jdong: what is that?
<jdong> now I'm even getting threats through my apache logs :D
<joejaxx> man that is crazy
<jdong> joejaxx: well apparently someone really hates me?
<jdong> lol
<luisbg> some lines from any motu saying he will be helped would be cool, since he says he doesn't know much about packaging
<joejaxx> jdong: :(
<Admiral_Chicago> ubuntu-doc
<Admiral_Chicago> err ignore that
<crimsun> tsmithe-afk: um, duplicating asoundconf(1) functionality is madness
<crimsun> tsmithe-afk: I'm currently integrating pulseaudio support into asoundconf(1), so you'd have to resync at each iteration. It's much more sensible to invoke asoundconf directly from your gui and to Depend on alsa-utils in debian/control.
<Simon80> ajmitch: look at autotools-dev for what?
<Adri2000> hi crimsun, have you read my comment on bug 74088 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74088 in oo2c "Please sync oo2c (universe) from unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74088
<Laser_away> Adri2000: did you ask me to revu a couple packages for you the other day?
<Adri2000> Laser_away: yeah, this one: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3553
<Laser_away> Adri2000: that's the only one?
<Laser_away> I lost my todo list so I'm trying to not be mean and forget people ;-)
<Adri2000> ok :) there is also http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3540 but waiting for a new upstream release
<Laser_away> ok, I won't do that one yet then
<ajmitch> Simon80: the lintian issue you asked me about
<crimsun> Adri2000: I'm about 1/10th through my e-mail flood; I'll probably get around to it in 4 hours.
<Adri2000> crimsun: okay :-)
<Simon80> ajmitch, err, isn't it as simple as running autoconf in the directory?
<Simon80> incidentally, the Makefile.am does it, so probably that means that the lintian warning can be ignored
<Simon80> ah, ajmitch, thanks a lot, the README is nice and informative
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: ping
* Simon80 changes nickname, says pong
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: yes?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: compiz... I had a question, but now I have lost it
<ajmitch> fine
<ademan> hey is there any possibility of someone working side by side with me on this stupid eclipse-cdt?
<zul> meh..
<ademan> hrm, would it be bad of me to make a *.deb of the eclipse-cdt without source? (ie make it from the java jar files)
<ademan> its platform independant, but it's also not source...
<zul> yes
<zul> it would be bad
<ademan> zul: weak, cause i think i could have had a chance packaging it from scratch
<Simon80> well, given its history, calling java bytecode arch independent is a stretch sometimes
<jdong> Simon80: the bytecode is arch-independent, sure ;-)
<jdong> but that doesn't mean it'll work on all arches :)
<lifeless> whats the cdt licence
<Simon80> jdong: I was making fun of java
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> nvm
<jdong> so was I :)
<lifeless> it will say much more about whether its ok to package from the jars
* plugwash wonders if sun will go through with thier promise to opensource java
<Simon80> plugwash: too late, haha
<plugwash> Simon80 last i checked they had opensourced the compiler (virtually zero value) and the vm (reasonablly high value) but not the class libraries (highest value)
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> yeah, that's still the last I heard
<Simon80> I think they will, I mean, they GPL'd the VM
<Simon80> now they can't stop, or else they're flipflopping, that looks bad
<plugwash> the impression i always got was that sun had a dual personality
<plugwash> on the one hand they seem to think its good for them if *nix gains ground over windows and if java gains ground over microsofts java derivitives/clones (j++ and .net)
<plugwash> on the other hand they know as well as anyone else how much damage lintel has done to traditional unix vendors
<lifeless> they make money on hardware
<lifeless> so as linux grows, they get to sell more niagaras ?
<plugwash> yes, but traditional unix only ran on expensive high end hardware
<plugwash> linux runs on cheap intel/amd based whiteboxes
<Simon80> sun sort of has a weird strategy like that
<Simon80> but one could argue that linux is good for them, they DO sell hardware..
<Simon80> joel spolsky had a piece where he says, ok, they're commoditising the software by open sourcing staroffice and stuff, but they're commoditising hardware by supporting java
<Simon80> I don't know if that makes sense, cause open source software is made fairly portable just by being open source, which is similar to java
<Simon80> what it means is that there's more software that will run on your hardware
<Simon80> but at the same time, lots of other people's hardware
<lifeless> his thing was about complementary products
<Simon80> yeah
<lifeless> so java is about enterprise right
<lifeless> if you make the enterprise software pervasive
<Simon80> not really
<lifeless> in the context of java & sun hw it is :)
<Simon80> yeah, true
<Simon80> which is wierd
<lifeless> things like ME are clearly different
<Simon80> whenever I see people using java on a server, I'm like, what? but when I think about it, unless you use fastCGI or something, you're going to be using a scripting lang of some kind
<Simon80> php, lisp, perl, python, ASP, .NET (which is like java)
<lifeless> java is pretty fast
<lifeless> the hotspot vm - slick as
<Simon80> I wouldn't really know.. but my desktop java experience has always left me wishing for a native app
<zul> oh hey lifeless 
<Simon80> mostly when on windows htough
<lifeless> Simon80: in which regard, UI? performance? startup ?
<lifeless> zul: hi
<Simon80> lmao, lifeless, that about sums it up, just remove the "in which regard" part
<Simon80> memory usage is part of performance, to be clear
<Simon80> cause that's another thing
<Simon80> I'm doing another upload of stepmania, feel free to review it anyone
<Simon80> I didn't repack the original tarball, but I remove some cruft in clean instead
<nixternal> are the us archives ever coming back
<Laser_away> rmjb: around?
<rmjb> ya
<jabra> hey guys
<Laser_away> rmjb: did you ask me to do a review the other day?
<rmjb> yeah, the iriverter, I just updated the dependency as per my email to the list today
<rmjb> I'll send you the fresh link
<rmjb> you have time now?
<Laser_away> rmjb: not exactly now, but I lost my todo list so I wanted to make sure I didn't leave anybody hanging
<rmjb> I'll send it to you in an email then... I have to go to sleep now anyhow
<rmjb> one question about depends, recommends and suggests though
<Simon80> Laser: I need a review :)
<rmjb> iriverter needs java to start, but needs mplayer, mencoder and ffmpeg to function, should they all go under depends?
<Laser_away> is it going to be of any use without them?
<rmjb> nah, just look pretty
<Simon80> lol
<rmjb> so depends
<rmjb> thanks
<Simon80> does it need all three to be useful?
<rmjb> yep
<Simon80> well then
<Simon80> lol, nobody will want it without them, right?
<rmjb> just wanted to know if depends is only for what's needed to get the prog running
<rmjb> Laser_away: I'll send you that email now, thanks again
<Laser_away> no, more like things that make it actually work
<Simon80> heh, no, but that's probably in the debian policy manual
<Simon80> which is rather descriptive
<Laser_away> if they are optional put them in Recommends
<Simon80> though lintian seems to be more detailed sometimes
<Simon80> like complaining that my extended description lines are too long
<Simon80> it's not in the DPM
<Simon80> Laser_away, do you care to put me in your TODO?
<Laser_away> I can, I certainly can't promise I'll get to it right away
<Laser_away> but I can add to the list ;-)
<Simon80> sure
<Simon80> stepmania and stepmania-data
<Simon80> but I hope you prefer preserving the upstream tarball over repacking it to remove upstream cvs cruft
<Simon80> like, not a lot of cvs cruft
<Simon80> 4 files
<rmjb> well I'm off to bed
<rmjb> g'night all
<Simon80> night
<Simon80> I'm doing another upload of stepmania and stepmania-data, to fix some binary warnings from lintian
<Simon80> I've done too many uploads... but anyway, that's it, hopefully in a week's time or so someone will have seen fit to review them (pretty please), and I'm not going to bug anyone about it during that time
<Simon80> nor am I uploading any more revisions, hehe
<Hobbsee> Simon80: keep bugging about it, it's fine.  and uploading - it's what REVU is for
<Simon80> hehe
<Simon80> it shouldn't take bugging, my package is a killer app ;)
<crimsun> upid?
<Simon80> that's why i'm packaging it
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: too much bugging in a short time can be detrimental, however
<Simon80> hehe..
<crimsun> Simon80: upid?
<Simon80> crimsun: what?
<Simon80> lol
<crimsun> the revu upid for stepmania.
<Simon80> ohh
<Simon80> hehe, sorry
<Simon80> lemme fetch it
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: true
<Simon80> you could just go to revu.tauware.de and find it... but one sec
<crimsun> yes, I could, but then I wouldn't have asked for it.
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3662, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3663
<Simon80> both are needed
<Simon80> one is just data
<crimsun> for 3662, have you considered stripping the cvs copies/data to generate a 3.9+ubuntu.orig.tar.gz?
<Simon80> ...others have, I thought it was a bad idea?
<Simon80> I mean, like, I don't see why it's better to complicate things by changing the orig tarball just for the sake of the cruft
<crimsun> depends what you consider "good practice"
<crimsun> the clean target won't remove said cruft regardless
<Simon80> I thought preserving upsteam was good practice
<crimsun> it surely is.
<crimsun> having no cruft in the orig.tar.gz is also good practice.
<Simon80> what do you mean about clean? I know it doesn't remove it from the sources, but at least nobody can complain that it's interfering with the build
<Simon80> I don't see why no cruft is better practice than preserving upstream though
<crimsun> preserving upstream is not necessarily best given one's approach
<crimsun> see automake1.9, for instance.
<Simon80> what about automake?
<crimsun> look at the orig.tar.gz
<Simon80> you want me to source it right now?
<crimsun> automake1.9_1.9.6+nogfdl.orig.tar.gz
<Simon80> ok, that's irrelevant, that's a licensing issue
<crimsun> that's not irrelevant.
<Simon80> to this cruft issue, yes, I would say
<crimsun> I wouldn't.
<Simon80> that is one example of a reason to repack
<crimsun> if I were rolling stepmania, I'd strip the cruft.
<Simon80> but licensing issues aren't the same as cruft issues
<Simon80> from common mistakes:
<Simon80> The following are not reasons to change the original tarball:
<Simon80> Files need to be removed to keep the .diff.gz small (e.g., files created by autotools). Everything that needs to be deleted should be removed in the clean rule. Since the .diff.gz is created with diff -u, you will not see removed files in the .diff.gz.
<Simon80> I delete anything that needs to be deleted in the clean rule, just like it says
<Simon80> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-mistakes.html
<crimsun> again, that's your approach.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: you're a core dev arent you?
<Simon80> oh, so you aren't saying my approach is bad?
<crimsun> Simon80: I've not said it's bad, no.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: yes
<Simon80> ok, cause a couple of other MOTUs seemed to be saying that leaving it in was THAT bad
<crimsun> Simon80: personally it's unclean and not best practice, but it's not wrong.
<Simon80> one of them even went so far as to say that a package not putting prefs in ~/.package was equally as bad as cruft
<Simon80> I agree it's unclean, but I feel just as unclean repacking just for cruft, and the guidelines in the the common mistakes discussion seem to agree with me, and I think those guidelines make sense
<Simon80> argh, edgy's nautilus managed to get released with a spinlooping bug
<Simon80> and it happens so often, it's amazing
<Simon80> thanks for looking at my package, btw
<Simon80> crimsun
<superm1> crimsun, do u have a min to do another revu?
<crimsun> I will after stepmania-data
<superm1> okay cool
<Simon80> thank you very much crimsun
<crimsun> Simon80: debian/copyright seems a bit odd for stepmania-data, and its Description needs to be changed to describe its actual function
<Simon80> the description in control?
<crimsun> yes, the one-line summary
<Simon80> oh, the one liner
<Simon80> ok
<Simon80> feel free to suggest
<Simon80> you just mean for data, right?
<Amaranth> ajmitch: I'm sure you'll be happy to know I'll now be fighting to _not_ have beryl in ubuntu-desktop.
<Simon80> lol
<crimsun> Simon80: stepmania-data only, yes
<Simon80> just beryl? why beryl?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: haha, excellent
<crimsun> Simon80: ([for stepmania-data]  debian/control references files that don't exist)
<Amaranth> I had my python stuff as LGPL, Quinn threw a fit because she is a GPL-freak, now they're talking about hijacking my stuff the same way they hijacked compiz and making it GPL
<ajmitch> I love this *community* project
<Simon80> lol
<crimsun> oh it's certainly community!
<Simon80> crimsun, explain?
<Simon80> about my control, I mean
<Amaranth> ajmitch: Did you know they changed everything from MIT to GPL?
<Amaranth> They had a document saying it was GPL but all the code still said MIT. They just finished actually changing it
<Amaranth> So now they can take freely from compiz but compiz can't touch their code
<ajmitch> that's... special
<crimsun> Simon80: RageFileDriverZip.cpp, src/crypto/, RageSurfaceUtilsPalettize.cpp, libmad, etc.
<Simon80> oh, copyright?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> sorry, meant copyright
<Simon80> I copied that all verbatim from the same tarball..
<Lathiat> Amaranth: im pretty sure you can *actually* relicense LGPL to GPL tho
<Lathiat> right?
<crimsun> Simon80: that's my point :)
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> what should I do though?
<Amaranth> Lathiat: They can.
<Amaranth> Lathiat: They're talking about 'freeing' my code right now.
<crimsun> Simon80: since those files aren't actually in the source package for stepmania-data, they shouldn't be included in stepmania-data's debian/copyright.
<Simon80> lol, if it was freeing, it wouldn't be legal
<ajmitch> Lathiat: it's not a matter of whether it's possible, it's a matter of whether it's right to do so
<crimsun> Simon80: the relevant info for the actual files in -data should be 
<Lathiat> ajmitch: i beleive their perfectly within their right too
<Lathiat> that said
<Lathiat> the whole beryl thign seems like a big mes
<ajmitch> Lathiat: sure, if they want to just fork everything & never worry about being able to give code back
<Lathiat> and im jsut goign to stay away from it
<Simon80> crimsun: the original copying file is in the / of the orig
<ajmitch> which is pretty much how things have gone now
<Lathiat> nod
<Simon80> so you can see that's all I have to work with from upstream
<Lathiat> what about MIT->GPL tho
<Lathiat> is that legal?
<Amaranth> Haha, Quinn said he wishes he could fork ever BSD project just to make it GPL
<Amaranth> Fucking looney tunes.
<Simon80> Lathiat, yes, stepmania ddoes it 
* Lathiat laughs
<Simon80> I mean, they include gpl code
<Simon80> which implies that yes, it's gpl compat
<Simon80> wow, talk about anal about licensing, lol, I mean, sure you may have a different opinion from the BSDs, but GPL forking it is a hostile move
<Simon80> you only acheive any good copylefting if you include your own code in there that makes the GPL fork more appealing... in effect destroying the BSD licensed project
<Simon80> embrace, extend, extinguish, right?
<mnepton> do we *ahve* to talk about anal licensing? that just leads to discussions of open anal licensing, and things inevitably trundle downhill from there.
<Lathiat> i think 'trundle' is a bit slow
<Lathiat> turn into a rolling landslide?
<Simon80> haha
<Lathiat> with an earthquake *and* hat lava chasing you?
<ajmitch> mnepton!
<mnepton> AUGH!
* mnepton faints
<Amaranth> So, uh, I think sabdfl is the _only_ person still pushing for beryl.
<Amaranth> And since I'm no longer writing the user-friendly frontend stuff that would be required...
<Simon80> crimsun: The following license applies to most of the StepMania codebase [including this package] :
<Simon80> and then sm's MIT license
<Simon80> and nothing irrelevant after
<Simon80> is that ok?
<crimsun> Simon80: there's no actual code in this source package, though.
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: then no beryl-by-default?  yay!
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: Pretty much
<Hobbsee> :P
<Lathiat> do we get compiz-by-default?
<crimsun> Simon80: i.e., under what license(s) are these images available?
<Amaranth> Quinn claims he'll write the new frontend but, uh, have you _seen_ beryl-settings? :)
<Simon80> crimsun: I think that's all I've got
<Amaranth> Lathiat: That'd be nice
* Lathiat grins at Amaranth 
<Lathiat> or how bout
<Lathiat> compiz-installed-by-disabled-by-default? :P
<Amaranth> Lathiat: And I think it's already got metacity binding compatibility
<crimsun> Simon80: I'm also noting a StepMania-3.9a binary package (which I presume contains the data) on sf.net
<mnepton> i want compositing. i just don't want it now.
<Simon80> yeah, that's the orig for sm-data
<ajmitch> everyone else seems to be moving towards compiz
<crimsun> Simon80: so the data are identical (not diff from 3.9)?
<elkbuntu> mnepton, exactly. i'd rather wait until it's ready for use
<Simon80> crimsun: when you say strip the leading article, you men remove "A free", right?  - and yes, I mean that they only included the data in the binary release, so you need it with the source as well, see stepmania.com
<crimsun> Simon80: "A"
<Simon80> oh
<crimsun> package is a "foo bar blah"
<Simon80> right, ok, there's prolly something in the DPM about that, huh
<crimsun> instead of package is a "a foo bar blah"
<crimsun> if there currently isn't, there should be a patch made available :-)
<mnepton> linux compositing is like freddy kreuger. you see and it's like "zomg! pinch me i'm dreaming!" and then *just* as you begin to think you haven't really fallen asleep *BAM* it's all chainsaws and entrails
<mnepton> or something like that.
<Simon80> crimsun: patch? you talking about stepmania? if so, I'm confused what is being patched
<crimsun> well, xfwm4 4.2+ have compositing, but imo it's not worth switching environments just to gain that. YMMV.
<crimsun> Simon80: I'm referring to the Ubuntu packaging guide
<Simon80> oh
<Simon80> lol
<ajmitch> crimsun: opengl compositing?
<Amaranth> crimsun: that's XRender based
<crimsun> ah, thanks.
<Amaranth> crimsun: You can do that with xcompmgr, same thing.
* ajmitch should get another video card for this computer, to use the spare monitor
<Simon80> so crimsun: is my copyright fine? I'm going to upload that and stepmania and go to bed
<Simon80> ie. is removing the irrelevant stuff, and leaving in the MIT license
<Simon80> ok
<crimsun> Simon80: it would be best to get clarification from upstream themselves regarding those files
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> :(
<crimsun> trust me, you want to put in the time now, since the archive admins will reject this source package if you don't include all the license info
* Simon80 sighs, says ok
<crimsun> thanks for working on the packaging!
* Hobbsee has seen syncs from debian rejected because of that
<crimsun> superm1: ping, which source package?
<superm1> pong.... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3396
<superm1> its been sitting up there a while
<crimsun> thanks
<superm1> it was derived from flashplugin
<superm1> nonfree
<superm1> installer
<superm1> once this sort of package is down for ivtv-firmware, i am planning to do the same sort of thing for pchdtv 2k,3k cards and ATI HDTV Wonder cards, with firmware packages for them
<crimsun> superm1: hmm, you might want to take a look at the current flashplugin-nonfree source package, then, because Bart cleaned it up significantly.
<Simon80> crimsun: what kind of clarification, do I need proof of what was said about it or something?
<Simon80> Hobbsee: from Debian? good enough for Debian but not Ubuntu?
<crimsun> Simon80: yes, including e-mail is sufficient, but actual changes to upstream cvs are even better
<Hobbsee> Simon80: i'm not sure how that slipped through
<superm1> how current is the "current"?  I think i actually took this one from sabfdl's repository or someone elses that used a flashplugin 9
<superm1> and modified from that
<Simon80> Hobbsee: what?
<Hobbsee> Simon80: from debian - i dont know how those couple of packages got into debian
<crimsun> superm1: current current; see the source package in feisty/multiverse
<Simon80> oh
<superm1> oh.
<ademan> crimsun: i'm royally frustrated with the eclipse-cdt at this point, do you know if there's any place i can get attention for this?  for help or otherwise?
<Simon80> does the package now just bundle flash? it seems to
<ademan> like a mailing list or something?
<superm1> ah i see it has been cleaned up 
<superm1> crimsun, should I redo it against that one then u think?
<lifeless> ademan: yes, the motu list may help.
<lifeless> ademan: I'm interested in this but too busy right now to do much. sorry.
<ademan> lifeless: that's fine, thanks for the mailing list, i'll google but do you have a link?
<ademan> !motu list
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about motu list - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<crimsun> superm1: personally preferable, yes, but it's your choice. I think you'll find the migration quite advantageous.
<superm1> yikes simple debian rules :)
<crimsun> ademan: ubuntu-motu at lists dot ourfavouritedistro
<superm1> crimsun, that being the case, i think i will just redo it against this newer one
<superm1> its *much* prettier
<crimsun> superm1: great, thanks!
<ademan> ourfavoritedistro dot com or just dot ourfavoritedistro ?
<crimsun> former
<superm1> if i finish up tonite, i'll ping you,elsewise again in a day or two :)
<crimsun> superm1: ok
<ademan> thanks crimsun
<crimsun> np
<Simon80> isn't the latest flash package just bundling it as opposed to dling it?
<superm1> i dont see the .so sitting in the .tar.gz, and it looks to still download it at first glance
<Simon80> hmm
<superm1> yea it still downloads it
<crimsun> Simon80: nope.
<crimsun> it has to download it.
<Simon80> but when? it's in my installed files guys
<Simon80> /usr/share/lintian/overrides/flashplugin-nonfree
<Simon80> /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so
<Simon80> /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so
<crimsun> those are symlinks.
<crimsun> take a look at 'em.
<Simon80> oh, ok
<Simon80> I'm too lazy, man
<Simon80> I'm uploading stepmania..  but it's not worth it to upload stepmania-data till I get a reply, right?
<crimsun> Simon80: for stepmania-data, debian/copyright is a blocker
<crimsun> so, correct.
<Simon80> the other issue is stepmania's appearance infringing on Konami's properties
<Simon80> they haven't been sued, really, but it's evidently an issue, cause 4.0 features a revamped, intentionally different theme and terminology
<crimsun> that's not really any issue, since it'll go into universe due to its license
<crimsun> s/any/an/
<Simon80> universe?
<Simon80> .......
<Simon80> universe is for free stuff, no?
<crimsun> yes. Is there anything in stepmania that isn't?
<Simon80> no
<Simon80> not in the source, definitely
<crimsun> then its target is universe.
<Simon80> but I mean, I don't see how putting it in universe moots the whole infringement thing
<crimsun> Ubuntu tends to follow Debian's policy with such regards.
<Simon80> is that in the DPM?
<Simon80> if so, what section of the DPM
<Simon80> 2.3?
<crimsun> I don't see anything in DPM regarding it.
<crimsun> s/policy/practices/
<crimsun> e.g., libmad is in Debian main
<crimsun> (even mplayer)
<crimsun> if it turns out there are license restrictions, then both stepmania and stepmania-data may have to go to multiverse
<Simon80> I think the only issue is the infringement, I would assume that upstream wants their data to be free along with the code, and the copying file seems to indicate that
<crimsun> right, and thus universe candidates
<Simon80> but what I would think the issue is is that upstream says it's free, but it infringes on Konami
<crimsun> that's not enough to punt it into multiverse
<Simon80> ah, sweet
<Simon80> well then I'll just ignore it and ask them how they want to license it :D
<Simon80> I mean, I don't think any of the data is a blatant rip, iirc, it's just that they (Konami) may have reason to call it a derivative work in the same way LKMs are derivative of the kernel
<Simon80> silly hats only!
<dholbach> good morning
<Burgundavia> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> going to rock with a new week of Telepathy?
<dholbach> and new GNOME
<dholbach> (once the archive is unfrozen again)
<Burgundavia> yep
<superm1> crimsun, still around?
* dholbach hugs crimsun
<crimsun> superm1: yes
* crimsun hugs dholbach 
<superm1> okay i just finished up and ran the package install a few times.  i love this newer flashplugin basis :)
<superm1> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3665 if you can take a look
<ademan> well i posted in the mailing list, now i play the waiting game
* elkbuntu hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs elkbuntu ecstatically
<elkbuntu> hehehe
<crimsun> superm1: in about 20 minutes, hopefully
<superm1> okay sounds good
<ajmitch> dholbach!
<dholbach> Andrew!
<ajmitch> how are you?
<dholbach> fine thanks - just waking up
<dholbach> how are you?
<ajmitch> good :)
<crimsun> superm1: sorry, still on the phone (shouldn't be -too- much longer, but I never know)
* proppy hugs dholbach
<superm1> hehe okay
<dholbach> heya proppy
* dholbach hugs proppy back
* proppy needs revu ! :)
<tsmithe> ping crimsun
<tsmithe> ah well
* tsmithe afk again
<crimsun> superm1: is the non-native-version-but-lacking-orig.tar.gz intentional
<superm1> well i got a bit confused how to version this
<superm1> so if it should be versioned the way i did it, yes
<superm1> should it have been 20061007ubuntu1 instead?
<crimsun> do you plan to submit the source package to Debian?
<superm1> well not in the near future
<crimsun> how often is(are) the firmware(s) updated?
<superm1> but i had assummed if it ever would be submitted to debian, there had to be a way to differentiate between the upstream, debian, and our versions
<superm1> every few months
<crimsun> I would probably use 0.20061007, then.
<crimsun> thus making it a native package
<superm1> so then would it be 0.20061007ubuntu1?
<superm1> or just 0.20061007
<crimsun> I would just use 0.20061007 for now
<superm1> okay. i'll update that then
<crimsun> well, let's rethink
<crimsun> you'll run into some nasty situations with Debian NMUs
<crimsun> unfortunately that's unavoidable
<crimsun> so you can either use the pseudo-epoch (0.date), or use 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, etc.
<crimsun> depends how strongly [and immediately obvious]  you want to tie the version to the firmware date
<superm1> well i think pseudo-epoch makes more sense
<superm1> at least to me
<superm1> well firmware date is the easiest to go by
<superm1> thats what ivtvdriver.org goes by instead of versions
<superm1> their last release prior to this was in july, so it was something along the lines of 20060701
<superm1> and this way if someone else was to ever look at the package, it's immediately obvious that there is a new version available without having to match a date to a decoder for versions
<crimsun> ok, that part sounds fine. Do you intend it to be native to Ubuntu/Debian, then?
<superm1> yes
<sivang> morning
<ajmitch> morning sivang 
<crimsun> superm1: is it possible to include the contents of the license "allowing end users to download the firmware from dl.ivtvdriver.org and use on their local machines" in debian/copyright ?
<superm1> I'll have to see if Axel can get me a copy. 
<superm1> he only mentioned it in emails
<crimsun> ok, that's possibly a blocker.
<superm1> he was a liaison for the community for hauppauge for a bit, and obtained the license allowing him to host firmware on his site for end users.
<superm1> *well particularly to host the firmware in extracted form in a .tar.gz archive
<crimsun> the /usr/lib/firmware -> /lib/firmware symlink business is a bit dirty, too
<superm1> ok i can just throw them right in /lib/firmware
<superm1> when your saying obtain, i'm not sure exactly what he'll be able to provide - because for all i know it might just be emails back and forth with Hauppauge HR that allowed him to do this, or it might have only been verbally agreed on
<crimsun> quoted e-mail with his permission would suffice, but even better would be a publicly-accessible statement on his Web site
<crimsun> Otherwise, looks good. Thanks for working on this source package!
<superm1> with "his" permission?  Let me check the exact wording of our contact.  I belive i do have "his" permission
<crimsun> it's always better to ask [to receive explicit permission] 
<superm1> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 12:31:02PM -0600, Mario Limonciello wrote:
<superm1> > The firmware itself wouldn't have been hosted on the Ubuntu servers.  Just a
<superm1> > small package (<30k) that would contain a preinstall script.  When this
<superm1> > package was installed, the "end user's machine" would then grab the firmware
<superm1> > from your server, possibly display some licensing info about the license
<superm1> > that you have for hosting the files, and then place them in the correct
<superm1> > place on the users machine.  So in short, the firmware itself wouldn't ever
<superm1> > touch ubuntu servers.
<superm1> That would be no legal issue at all I think (but IANAL still
<superm1> applies). There is also a way to use the redistributable Windows
<superm1> driver and extract the firmware from there on the fly. Perhaps that's
<superm1> the legally cleanest approach currently. If you're interested I'll dig
<superm1> out my notes on how to extract the firmware.
<superm1> that is a small snippet from some conversation, i'm not sure if that would suffice
<crimsun> not really, no
<superm1> Ok.  I'll send him a note and see if he can add a bit about licensing on his site
<crimsun> it needs to be clear from either upstream's license or from his e-mail(s) that he has been given explicit permission to host them, and that third parties have upstream's consent to download from his site
<crimsun> thanks.
<superm1> In the meanwhile - if this doesnt work out for some reason or another, can the fallback be to extract from the windows driver on the fly
<superm1> eg download the windows driver during install and extract from that.  it for sure does have redistribution rights
<superm1> (and before axel had this license with hauppauge straightened out, that was the only way to get this firmware)
<crimsun> I don't see any reason why not.
<superm1> Ok.  i'll see what axel says about getting the license right on his website then.  
<superm1> so other question though - something like pcHDTV also has firmware, and I was going to do a very similar package for it.  but again there is no license on the site directly, so I would have to email them to find out about how they feel about redistribution as well correct?
<crimsun> superm1: yes, explicit permission is best
<superm1> okay then.  i'll send this out and get to bed then.  thanks for all the help here crimsun.
<crimsun> np
<Adri2000> freeflying: ping
<freeflying> Adri2000: pong?
<Adri2000> freeflying: bug 74272
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74272 in quarry "Quarry is available in Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74272
<Adri2000> are you ok to request a sync?
<freeflying> Adri2000: I have uploaded it, so needn't sync
<freeflying> Adri2000: would you mind close it?  :)
<Adri2000> freeflying: uploaded the new upstream release or the debian package?
<freeflying> Adri2000: have we synced? if not, please use the one I uploaded
<Adri2000> freeflying: I don't know what you uploaded
<Adri2000> currently it's still:
<freeflying> Adri2000: 0.1.20-0ubuntu1
<Adri2000> quarry | 0.1.19-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources
<Adri2000> freeflying: 0.2.0 is available
<freeflying> Adri2000: then please sync it
<freeflying> Adri2000: thanks
<Adri2000> ok, I will do that
<wsb> I'd like to submit a citrix ica client package to the multiverse repository, is it possible, or do there are some licence issues ?
<crimsun> there shouldn't be if it's to go into multiverse.
<crimsun> as long as its license allows us to redistribute it, it should be fine.
<wsb> I haven't found anything about submiting to multiverse, do I need to submit to universe, or is there another way ?
<crimsun> you don't submit to a particular component; the archive admins handle that based on the licenses in the source package.
<crimsun> you follow precisely the identical procedure regardless of component
<wsb> ok fine
<wsb> other small question, on the install script from the source, the user have to accept the EULA, to I need to make something similar in the package (in debconf... or postinst) ?
<crimsun> ouch, EULA acceptance
<crimsun> well, yes.
<crimsun> a debconf template is one of the easier ways
<wsb> ok, any idea where I can find an exemple or tutorial ?
<crimsun> sure, flashplugin-nonfree
<crimsun> beware it defaults to -accepting- the eula, however.
<crimsun> obviously that's a trivial change
<wsb> I'll need to make some homework ;) , one trivial question, how can I decompress a deb with the DEBIAN directory ?
<crimsun> more context, please?
<wsb> I've downloaded the flashplugin deb, I know how to decompress the files and see the control file with dpkg-deb, but not how to have the whole DEBIAN directory
<wsb> with postinst and so on in it...
<Adri2000> wsb: apt-get source flashplugin-nonfree
<Lathiat> or if you wanted it out of the binary package
<Lathiat> ar x <deb file>
<Lathiat> tar zxvf control.tar.gz
<Lathiat> less postinst
<Lathiat> note thatl dump files in the current directory so do it from a temporary directory :)
<ajmitch> hi \sh 
<\sh> moins
<wsb> sorry about asking so many questions... can somebody explane me in a few word how debconf works, or were I can find a small tutorial, I've googled, but could not find anything
<mnepton> wsb: "gray magicks from before the dawn of recorded history"
<wsb> sorry but this sentence is like japanese for me !
<mnepton> wsb: there is no brief description of debconf.
<crimsun> wsb: try http://kitenet.net/~joey/talks/debconf-debconf/tutorial-doc.html
<wsb> I've downloaded the flashplugin-nonfree package to see how it is made, but I don't understand were the reference to debconf is...
<wsb> I'll try thanks
<crimsun> once you read the tutorial above, you'll see.
<wsb> great tutorial, thank you, will help me a lot !
<xerxas> I'm trying to merge a package 
<xerxas> I need this file: /usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/uploaders.mk
<xerxas> does anybody know where I can find it ? 
<xerxas> apt-file search doesn't give nothing 
<Hobbsee> in gnome-pkg-tools i expect
<xerxas> ok 
<xerxas> Hobbsee,  thanks 
<crimsun> ogra: I see that LP bug (silent drop) approximately once per fifty uploads.
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<ogra> crimsun, bah, that needs fixage
<crimsun> yeah, it's kinda annoying. I got into the habit of queueing my uploads so they'd upload right around :04, :09, etc.
<xerxas> Hobbsee,  I have merged gnome-backgrounds what should I do to "upload" it ? 
<geser> first test that it still builds
<geser> then create a debdiff, file a bug, attach debdiff, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors and wait
<xerxas> geser,  ok , thanks, you already told me that on friday, sorry ! :)
<crimsun> and if you do it quickly enough, you can skip the waiting when you tell me what bug # it is immediately after filing it
<xerxas> crimsun,  ok 
<xerxas> thanks 
<xerxas> what should I tell the debdiff to diff ?  
<xerxas> previous vs new ubuntu version ? 
<geser> debdiff debian_version.dsc merged_version.dsc > debdiff
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> thanks 
<Hobbsee> er, why the debian version?
<Hobbsee> guess you should do both, really
<xerxas> $ ls *dsc
<xerxas> gnome-backgrounds_2.15.92-1.dsc        gnome-backgrounds_2.16.1-1.dsc
<xerxas> gnome-backgrounds_2.16.1-0ubuntu1.dsc  gnome-backgrounds_2.16.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<xerxas> so I should debidff gnome-backgrounds_2.16.1-1.dsc gnome-backgrounds_2.16.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<xerxas> ? 
<geser> yes
<crimsun> doesn't ultimately matter as long as the diff context is clear
<crimsun> u-u-s is capable of processing either way :)
<crimsun> I think I should pass the u-u-s processing baton to Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: nah, keep it :)
<crimsun> bah
<Hobbsee> crimsun: i got rid of some yesterday though :)
<crimsun> yep, I saw. Thanks! :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<geser> Hobbsee: IMHO a debdiff against the debian version is easier to check than against the last ubuntu version
<xerxas> u-u-s ? 
<Hobbsee> true
<geser> you don't have all the debian changes and upstream changes
<geser> xerxas: u-u-s = ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<xerxas> ok 
<xerxas> geser,  the bug should be called: "please sync gnome-backgrounds" ? 
<xerxas> [debdiff attached]  ? 
<xerxas> or anything else ? 
<geser> it's up to you, I usally use "[Merge]  packagename version"
<xerxas> ok 
<xerxas> thanks 
<crimsun> yes, please use [merge] 
<crimsun> I filter based on [sync]  vs. [merge] ; the former gets processed faster
<xerxas> crimsun,  k 
<xerxas> crimsun,  https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-backgrounds/+bug/74378
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74378 in gnome-backgrounds "[merge]  gnome-backgrounds 2.16.1-1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<xerxas> could you check everything is ok ?
<geser> xerxas: you forgot to update debian/changelog
<xerxas> geser:
<xerxas> gnome-backgrounds (2.16.1-1ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low
<xerxas>   * Merge from debian unstable.
<xerxas>  -- Ubuntu Merge-o-Matic <mom@ubuntu.com>  Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:17:41 +0000
<xerxas> isn't this enough ? 
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> you have to list the ubuntu changes kept
<Hobbsee> and you're nto mom
<crimsun> also, be careful about the debian/control.in* changes
<crimsun> and debian/compat
<xerxas> I think there's no changed kepts 
<xerxas> I need to put in my e-mail address ? 
<geser> if there are no ubuntu changes than the package should be synced instead of merged
<xerxas> lol , ok  
<xerxas> so how do I request a sync ? 
<geser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources section "Syncs"
<geser> but subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors instead of ubuntu-archive until you are a MOTU
<geser> you need an ACK from a MOTU
<gnomefreak> was ff2.0 backported or shoved into -proposed for dapper?
<crimsun> gnomefreak: not according to http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper-proposed/main/source/Sources.gz or http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper-backports/main/source/Sources.gz
<gnomefreak> i was just looking on p.u.c but they dont list proposed thank you
<bddebian> Heya gang
<crimsun> 'morning
<bddebian> crimsun: Hi
<sivang> hey crimsun , bddebian 
<crimsun> 'lo sivang 
<bddebian> Heya sivang
<crimsun> sivang: RE: your latest blog, note that -lowlatency does not have CONFIG_PREEMPT enabled, which _may_ affect your symptoms.
<crimsun> sivang: (it was overlooked and has been corrected in feisty's git)
<sivang> crimsun: uh-ha! interesting :)
<sivang> crimsun: do you think it could have any good effects once its enabled ?
<sivang> crimsun: I can't really go to IBM's repair service as they will test in in windows,
<crimsun> sivang: possibly. I honestly can't pinpoint right this moment whether it's an X driver issue, a kernel issue, or something else.
<sivang> crimsun: and there it mostly works (although the best I did there was to dir /s on a root drive)
<sivang> crimsun: I just can't accept that everytime my disk IO jumps high, my mouse will stop working.
<sivang> crimsun: I was never willing to accept something like this from a linux based OS, I wish I had enough disk space to try this with debian.
<sivang> crimsun: thanks for your note though ;)
* sivang googles for the bug report
<xerxas> crimsun, you here ? 
<stgraber> Any MOTU around to have a look at my upload on review ?
<elektranox> can sb. review my small package? :P
<dholbach> elektranox: I'm busy doing something else atm, but if you like drop me a mail with the link to dholbach@ubuntu.com and I'll get back to you once I solved some other 'small' problems
<elektranox> dholbach: ok, thx :)
<dholbach> elektranox: got your mail - thanks a lot
<elektranox> dholbach: k, thanks for reviewing :)
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: ping
<tsmithe> hiho: anyone wanna review the latest incarnation of asoundconf-gtk?
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: ?
* tsmithe is afk for a while
<tsmithe> but if anyone could that would be great!
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3669
<tsmithe> thanks in advance ;)
* tsmithe-afk no longer afk ;)
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: do you have some time to "review" entrance packge ?
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: i am not actually motu yet
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: np, entrance isn't on REVU, is for Elbuntu project :)
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: ah
<joejaxx> sure
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: Elbuntu, is that what they're calling it now?
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: how do you want to go about doing that?
<tsmithe> what's elbuntu?
<Lutin> LaserJock: yes
<Sp4rKy> tsmithe: Enlightenemnt based Ubuntu distro
<Sp4rKy>  /j #elbuntu for more information :)
<tsmithe> ah, thanks Sp4rKy 
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: yes
<Sp4rKy> it's the "old" Ebuntu
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: why wouldn't you want entrance on revu?
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: it's always the same problem
<Sp4rKy> it's a part of the E17 project
<Lutin> crimsun: because all the lib it relies on are not in revu, and won't be for awhile
<crimsun> but why is revu the blocker?
<Sp4rKy> and the main dev of E17 (raster) doesn't want we put any part of E17 in official repository :)
<Lutin> crimsun: revu is not the blocker. raster is, as Sp4rKy said (and i can understand that)
<crimsun> revu's not an official repository, so I see no reason why the source packages shouldn't go onto revu
<tsmithe> hi crimsun
<tsmithe> could you take another look at asoundconf-gtk?
<crimsun> tsmithe: tomorrow, yes. I haven't slept in three days, so I'm not going to do any more reviewing.
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> cool
<tsmithe> that's a long time :)
<dholbach> crimsun: :-(
* dholbach hugs crimsun
<Lutin> crimsun: the goal of revu is to put the packages in ubuntu, right ?
<crimsun> Lutin: yes, but it's more importantly a place to have peer review of packaging.
<tsmithe> keep them oiled and in good working order
<tsmithe> and nice looking ;)
<Lutin> crimsun: the point is, we can't put packages in revu just to have them reviwed
<crimsun> but you can in some other repo?
<crimsun> that sounds shady.
<crimsun> and I don't buy it at all.
<Lutin> crimsun: not sure I understood what you mean
<crimsun> Lutin: my question regards why revu can't be used for review. That's its primary purpose.
<crimsun> there's no binary repo associated with revu; people can't add deb lines to sources.list(5)
<LaserJock> in other words, REVU can be used for any reviewing
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: crimsun yes of course
<Sp4rKy> but package putted at revu.tauware.de will be uploaded in universe after 2 validation, right ?
<crimsun> it's never automatic
<Sp4rKy> but indeed, we may use our own revu platform
<crimsun> a member of ubuntu-dev must manually upload the source package to ubuntu
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: i think motu have a lot of work
<LaserJock> what we're saying is you can use REVU
<Sp4rKy> yes, we'll do
<Sp4rKy> but on our own server
<LaserJock> why not use ours?
<Sp4rKy> because we've many & many packages
<LaserJock> if you've already got accounts it seems logical
<LaserJock> we already have 140+
<Sp4rKy> we have smthg like 190 packages !
<Sp4rKy> (deb packages)
<Sp4rKy> we've account :)
<crimsun> it's not the number of packages that matters; it's the quality.
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: of course
<Sp4rKy> but we don't want overload revu with 150+ packages which don't go to universe
<crimsun> anyhow, revu's there; I'd use it, but of course you're free to choose your own approach
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: i really think revu is a very good tool
<Sp4rKy> and we probably try to use it at our server
<Sp4rKy> do you really think we can upload our packages to revu.tauware , and spend MOTU time with them ?
<LaserJock> 190 NEW packages for E17?
<LaserJock> I thought it was more like 20 or so
<Sp4rKy> nop
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: do you hope to get any sort of peer review by MOTU (or DD/NM)?
<ajmitch> maybe 190 binary packages
<Sp4rKy> there isn't 190 source pkge
<Sp4rKy> but 190 deb pkge
<LaserJock> oh
<Lutin> LaserJock: about 20 source pkge for e17 + some stuff around
<ajmitch> still a lot
<Sp4rKy> 26 source pkge for i386 arch :)
<Lutin> LaserJock: but the core libs and E itself are only 6-7 source pkgefs
<Sp4rKy> sorry for misunderstanding :p
<Adri2000> crimsun: haven't yet reached my email for the oo2c sync? :)
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: we like , but i think motu have already a lot of work
<Lutin> crimsun: yes, we'll get any sort of peer review by MOTU (or DD/NM)
<Sp4rKy> if we can, we'll help you, and so maybe we could put our package to tauware
<crimsun> I'll get to it tomorrow. I'm a bit tired atm.
<Lutin> crimsun: if I understood you correctly, you're saying that we can put our packages on revu, and even if they're advocated, say 'no, we don't want that to be in universe" ?
<crimsun> ^ Adri2000 
<Adri2000> crimsun: ok, np :)
<crimsun> Lutin: sure. I'm fairly sure no one in ubuntu-dev is going to be uploading E17 packages to Ubuntu.
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: if it's really no a problem for you (motus) , we're really happy to get this help !
<Lutin> crimsun: hum ... I'm going to think seriously about that, if I can be sure nobody will upload it (if it gets advocated)
<Sp4rKy> and of course, make our best to become MOTU too and work you :)
<crimsun> Lutin: I'm pretty sure none of us are going to advocate them, either.
<Sp4rKy> isn't it Lutin ?
<Lutin> Sp4rKy: lol
<Sp4rKy> :)
<Lutin> crimsun: ok
<Lutin> crimsun: because of its devel state ?
<crimsun> yes
<Lutin> ok
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: don't you think motus have enough work without those packages ?
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: absolutely, the MOTU have tons of work already.
<Sp4rKy> so if at this time we can do without overload tauware, but just with some dev/packagers/motu who help us, it's better, don't you think ?
<crimsun> if you can't convince MOTU to go to revu, what makes you think they'll go to yet another site?
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: we don't convince
<Sp4rKy> people who are interested by our project (E17 repo + elbuntu) come with us
<Sp4rKy> and so we ask them for help
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: all our packages which are in the repo work, but they are probably not all completly compliant woth debian policy & ubuntu packaging way
<crimsun> that should be your foremost goal as package maintainers
<Sp4rKy> and, as we want make our package as good as possible, we need some help for some package :)
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: is it
<Sp4rKy> but i/we can't say we're sure than all our package are completly compliant
<Lutin> I can say I'm sure they're not ^^
<Sp4rKy> :)
<Lutin> almost though
<tsmithe> !seen somerville32
<ubotu> I last saw somerville32 (n=somervil@fctnnbsc15w-156034078085.nb.aliant.net) 21h 13m 52s ago, quiting: "Leaving"
<tsmithe> crimsun, you still around! you really should go to bed!
<limpbizcuit> hello
<tsmithe> hi
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: you are probably sleeping, but... ping? :)
<Sp4rKy> ^^
<tsmithe> ah... much better!
<superm1> if debian is lagging behind on a package that we normally would autosync from them on, and say I updated the package for the newer version, could I just attach a debdiff to a bug and have a MOTU ack it?
<Sp4rKy> 'd night 
<LaserJock> superm1: give a specific example
<LaserJock> as I think you have one in mind ;-)
<superm1> hehe, well ivtv 0.9 is needed for 2.6.19 kernels
<superm1> i already wrote a package for it 
<superm1> and i'm keeping it under lock and key at http://dl.ivtvdriver.org/ubuntu/dists/feisty/ivtv/
<LaserJock> ok, and what is the debian version?
<superm1> 0.8.1-2
<superm1> which will only work on 2.6.18 kernels
<LaserJock> ok, well I think as long as you start from the debian package and just update it to 0.9
<LaserJock> just call it 0.9-0ubuntu1
<superm1> yea thats exactly what i did, except that i called it 0.9-0ubuntu0ivtv1 for now since its sitting on the ivtv driver website
<superm1> so just change it to match us and then post to a bug 
<LaserJock> do you know how big the diff between 0.8 and 0.9 is?
<superm1> i didn't have to change any packaging actually.  it all just worked using the newer upstream version
<LaserJock> yeah, but how big is the diff in the upstream version?
<superm1> oh i haven't done a diff on that yet
<superm1> give me a sec and i'll grab both and do it
<tsmithe> hi CarlF1
<superm1> about 15K difference it looks like
<tsmithe> urgh
<CarlF1> FK! not f1... grrr
<CarlF1> hi tsmithe
<LaserJock> superm1: ok, throw it into a bug report, but just make sure to say what you're doing
<LaserJock> CarlF1: is that how you ask for help? :-)
<superm1> which needs to be attached exactly, just the diff between upstream versions and the new diff.gz, dsc?
<LaserJock> just debdiff between the current fiesty version and yours
<superm1> k
<LaserJock> and say that that's what you did
<LaserJock> so we don't try to apply the debdiff to the Debian package
<superm1> k
<superm1> anyone particularly to subscribe?
<Adri2000> ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<superm1> k
<rmjb> Hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi rmjb 
<rmjb> I saw that the packaging guide got some more content since I read it
<rmjb> has that update made to lulu yet?
<LaserJock> probably not
<LaserJock> I think we are most likely going to drop lulu
<LaserJock> or perhaps just update when it's changed significantly
<LaserJock> making good looking pdfs for print is really hard
<rmjb> hmm... got some money for Christmas so I was going to buy myself a present of an Ubuntu Packaging Guide!
<LaserJock> you could do that
<LaserJock> or you could get the latest PDF and have a printshop print it out
<rmjb> I'd want to get the most complete version I can though
<rmjb> ah, that might be a solution
<LaserJock> well, we'll see
<rmjb> there's pdfs on doc.ubuntu.com?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> well, help.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> doc. probably doesn't
<rmjb> how often is help updated with the content from doc?
<LaserJock> when it's released
<LaserJock> so help.u.c has the breezy, dapper, and edgy docs
<rmjb> ok
<rmjb> I'll check it and see
<LaserJock> doc.u.c is just built from our svn repo
<rmjb> thanks
<rmjb> the section on patching was added for edgy right?
<rmjb> I'm trying to see what it is I missed
<rmjb> it looks so
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I haven't really done much of anything for Feisty yet
<rmjb> hmm... pdf is black and white...
<rmjb> is there a colour version available? with the slick cover that's on lulu?
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<LaserJock> you might be able to email he -doc list and convince somebody to make one :-)
<tsmithe> hi hobbsee: you're a good revu critic... could you do mine?
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: no, sorry - i'm catching a plane today
<tsmithe> cool
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-05
<tsmithe> where to?
<Hobbsee> adelaide
* tsmithe has no idea
<Hobbsee> australia
<VoX> you're coming to aus?
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> she lives in aus
<VoX> who what
<VoX> i thought hobbsee lived in europe for some reason
<LaserJock> nah
* VoX crawls back under his rock
<Hobbsee> VoX: nope
* Hobbsee is in sydney at the moment
<VoX> ew
<VoX> sydney=fail
<Hobbsee> everybody else lives in europe...
<LaserJock> that's not true
<LaserJock> :-)
* rmjb does not live in the eu rope
<LaserJock> although they do seem to have a disproportionate amount of Linux devs
<LaserJock> at least in Ubuntu and probably Fedora and OpenSuse too
<rmjb> when I become a dev I'll turn that tide :-)
<LaserJock> that's right, the West unites!
<rmjb> so... anyone want to chat about using bzr to manage their debian directories when they're packaging?
<Adri2000> hey LaserJock, you know inductor, capacitor and all of that? :)
<rmjb> I tried it last night and debuild added the .bzr directory into my source package... was kinda hoping it sould skip hidden directories
* tsmithe lives in europe!
<LaserJock> rmjb: I think you can added some sort of ignore file
<LaserJock> Adri2000: somewhat, I'm not much of an electrical engineer, but I get by
<Adri2000> ok :) I'm doing that at the moment for school :p
<bronson> rmjb: you need to pass -i when building.
<bronson> It's fiddly and hard to get right, but it did work for me a year ago.
<sladen> Seveas: Ubugtu needs fixing
<rmjb> thanks bronson that seems to work
<bronson> nice, congrats.  :)
<ajmitch> afternoon
<rmjb> evening ajmitch
<LaserJock> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<LaserJock> bronson: ^^
<jdong> can't you redirect too?
<LaserJock> yeah
<bronson> heh.
<bronson> LaserJock: thanks.
<LaserJock> !pbuilder > bronson 
<LaserJock> there's a double batch ;-)
<bronson> Now I have one of my very own.
<jdong> while true; do !pbuilder > bronson; done
<jdong> aww :(
<bronson> chmod a-w /dev/mytty
<bronson> Actually, wallall -n
<bronson> That fires some dusty neurons...
<fernando> hi all
<rmjb> hey, isn't the fact that debuild bombs out when the use-agent option is in gpg.conf a bug?
<rmjb> because dpkg-buildpackage works fine with the option there
<rmjb> and debuild supposedly calls that right?
<jdong> rmjb: yes 
<jdong> rmjb: remember debuild is fully under fakeroot and dpkg-buildpakcage is not
<jdong> the latter only fakeroots the build process
<jdong> while with debuild, gpg is signing under fakeroot
<jdong> and I've filed GPG bugs on this behavior too
<jdong> it's resolved in the NEWEST gpg
<jdong> which is not in Feisty
<rmjb> can you link me to the bug?
<jdong> rmjb: https://bugs.g10code.com/gnupg/issue655
<rmjb> it's not in launchpad then...
<jdong> "Fixed in 1.4.5 (svn 4211)."
<jdong> rmjb: it's an upstream bug
<jdong> rmjb: I first discovered in bzr
<jdong> ooh, feisty's should fix it
<rmjb> feisty's bzr should be good
<rmjb> but the rest of stuff
<jdong> the gnupg bug is fixed in feisty's gnupg
<jdong> so at least passphrase fallback will work correctly
<rmjb> oh cool
<jdong> of course fakerooting the agent is a completely different story :D
<rmjb> so why doesn't debuild launch the gui prompt for the passphrase now? i.e. why doesn't is use the agent?
<rmjb> oh the fakeroot
<jdong> fakeroot... my friend, fakeroot
<rmjb> I see
<rmjb> thanks for the info
<jdong> np
<rmjb> I gtg, Heroes!
<joejaxx> is the server install cd the lamp server or the base server install?
<jdong> joejaxx: I think it can do both?
<joejaxx> i do not know
<jdong> I've only used it for the LAMP install
<joejaxx> it does not have the two different preseeds like the alt disc
<jdong> but even the alternate cd lets a ubuntu-minimal install
<jdong> oh
<jdong> nvm then
<joejaxx> it only says install to hard disc
<jdong> then I guess that's the LAMP server
<joejaxx> yeah which means i downloaded the wrong cd image
<jdong> :(
<joejaxx> bah i will just install it anyway
<jdong> lol
<jdong> then strip it down
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> i knew something had to be wrong
<jdong> I just use netinst :)
<joejaxx> the fluxbuntu disc is smaller than the image i downloaded
<jdong> a nice 4MB ISO does the trick
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> jdong: haha :P
<muzzol> i dont really get this licensing issue
<joejaxx> yeah that is great for they business card size cdrs
<joejaxx> muzzol: which part?
<muzzol> licensing is supossed to go in _every_ file?
<muzzol> this makes no sense
<jdong> apparently for source files, yes :-/
<joejaxx> well lets say i included divx source in my code
<joejaxx> and it did not have a license in the header
<muzzol> i understand the connotations
<muzzol> dont need to explain
<joejaxx> but everything else had pgl
<joejaxx> oh ok
<muzzol> but if this is correct
<muzzol> then ubuntu is breaking it
<muzzol> let me explain
<muzzol> with some pastes
<muzzol> apt-get source libavc1394-0
<muzzol> cd /usr/src/libavc1394-0.5.3
<muzzol> find . | wc -l
<muzzol> 70
<muzzol> grep -r -m 1 "GNU Lesser General Public" * | wc -l
<muzzol> 13
<muzzol> how do you explain that?
<jdong> not all the files are source files?
<jdong> and not all of them are GPL
<jdong> LGPL*
<jdong> lots of the config* scripts are GPL
<muzzol> i've found some .h without licensing
<muzzol> avc1394_internal.h for example
<muzzol> the problem is i must send an email to the author of cinelerra and ask for licensing of certain files
<muzzol> how can i find wich files are correct ones?
<muzzol> must i perform a find just with .c and .h files?
<jdong> mostly source files are the ones that you care about
<jdong> header files don't really "deserve" to be licensed :)
<jdong> due to their trivial nature
<jdong> but if there's actual code snippets in the header files
<jdong> that's a grey area
<muzzol> that's annoying
<jdong> which is not the case in any of the avc1394 headers
<muzzol> i just want to make a package
<jdong> if you want to make a package it's generally a good idea to be absolutely sure about the licensing of the source :)
<crimsun> bah, screw sleep.
* crimsun opens revu again
<muzzol> jdong: i think this is not the problem
<muzzol> cinelerra's coders release all their software under gpl
<joejaxx> crimsun: noo! you want to sleep
<jdong> crimsun: that's not healthy :)
<engla> crimsun: want to review packages? why not do dragbox .)
<joejaxx> crimsun: do not get like me :(
<muzzol> but are so lazy that dont include license on every file
<ajmitch> evening crimsun 
<jdong> muzzol: don't quibble me about it. I don't make the packaging policies around here :)
<crimsun> joejaxx: sickness? I'm far beyond that.
<crimsun> ajmitch: evening
<muzzol> im just winning to the air
<muzzol> :)
<ajmitch> crimsun: you spend 40+ hours a week on ubuntu, I take it?
<joejaxx> crimsun: :(
<crimsun> ajmitch: no idea, tbh
<ajmitch> on top of the job, that is
<crimsun> I think I can count the amount of time I -don't- spend on Ubuntu ;)
<joejaxx> crimsun: no i have insomnia
<ajmitch> crimsun: that's a very bad sign
<crimsun> joejaxx: oh, haven't had that
<joejaxx> crimsun: oh that is good :)
* joejaxx happier now
<crimsun> ajmitch: very. fortunately I've almost perfected this neural 'net connection...
<joejaxx> jdong: nice
<joejaxx> jdong: it has a software selection :D
<joejaxx> jdong: on the server disc
<jdong> crimsun: but can you count the amount of time you don't spend on ubuntu AND debian AND open source development? ;-)
<crimsun> jdong: yeah, 1 hour per week.
<jdong> LOL
<jdong> wait.... that sounds like me
* jdong starts feeling nerdy again
<crimsun> that's the amount of time I spent waiting for the laptop to (re)boot or shut down
<joejaxx> ROFL!
<crimsun> =)
<ajmitch> when was the last time you slept?
<jdong> yeah, and those periodic fscks too... man they cut out of my ubuntuforums time
<crimsun> ajmitch: a couple hours ago
<jdong> crimsun: he meant for more than 10 minutes?
<joejaxx> lol
<crimsun> I took a 3-hr nap
* ajmitch can't survive on < 5 hours a night
<jdong> oh boy, is this a polyphasic sleep cycle thing?
<Lathiat>  for a while when i was younger i was doing like 3-4 hours a night
<Lathiat> after a few months i burnt myself out so bad i havent been able to comfortably sleep <8 for the past like 4 years
<crimsun> that stuff catches up real fast
<crimsun> fortunately I'm only really insane for short periods
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> yeah i dislike when that happens
<joejaxx> when you get to that point
<joejaxx> you = I
<joejaxx> in my statements
* ajmitch usually does 6-7 per night, can't sleep for 8 usually
<jdong> crimsun: that sounds unusually similar to Tesla's sleep behavior?
* muzzol goes sleeping
<joejaxx> Good night muzzol 
<LaserJock> I do 8-10 or I'm dead
<ajmitch> I wonder if I uploaded samba last night
* ajmitch checks
<ajmitch> no .upload, so I mustn't have done so
<ajmitch> & iptables to remerge again
* LaserJock just spent the last 1/2 hr figuring out how to play wesnoth
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> don't worry, i was playing freeciv for 2-3 hours last night when I could have been doing ubuntu work
<ajmitch> & quake 4 :)
<LaserJock> bah
<crimsun> hehe, I'm actually kinda happy this hardware can't play modern 3D games
<crimsun> I'd get nothing done otherwise
* ajmitch had to test the new monitor
<LaserJock> I just wondered what everybody was talking about with wesnoth so I thought I'd give it a whirl
<ajmitch> I'm just glad I've never started playing WoW
* ajmitch has heard too many stories of WoW sucking away any life people have
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I read that as MoM
<joejaxx> yeah you want to stay away from the WoWarCrack
<crimsun> well if you read WoW upside down...
<LaserJock> and I was thinking "yeah, merges to suck away a lot"
<joejaxx> Masters of. ....
<joejaxx> Masters of Merges?
<LaserJock> Merge-o-Matic
<joejaxx> oh
<ajmitch> yeah, I don't think I've touched any of my universe merges yet
<ajmitch> I've only done main
<LaserJock> I did one Main
<LaserJock> and my only one in Universe
<LaserJock> whoopdeedo
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> the largest one I've done is samba
<crimsun> LaserJock: you've had Open Week, though
<ajmitch> followed by updating f-spot to 0.3.0
<LaserJock> yeah, I did end up with 3 sessions for Open Week
<ajmitch> I'm impressed
<ajmitch> jordan 'superstar' mantha
<LaserJock> bah
<crimsun> =)
<ajmitch> what sessions did you do?
<joejaxx> or if you flip it around
<joejaxx> tha man jordan
<LaserJock> I did 2 "Maintaining Packages in Ubuntu"
<LaserJock> and 1 "Ubuntu Documentation Team"
<joejaxx> tha man "superstar" jordan :)
<ajmitch> good work
<LaserJock> well, they really could have been better, especially the package maintanence ones
* fernando fighting with /dev/ttyUSB0 and losing =(
<joejaxx> lol
<jdong> GRR
<jdong> any ways to sift through a mbox and remove e-mails from nonexistent domains received on 12/3/06?
<jdong> I just got counter-spammed for activating someone's spam filter
<jdong> actually, wait, there's an easier way
<jdong> all the e-mails have subject "HeadOn" and content "Applied directly to the forehead"
<jdong> I swear, it'd be a LOT less funny if it was sitting in YOUR inbox
<joejaxx> jdong: you are a system admin?
<crimsun> just substitute Sync or Merge for HeadOn, and you'll know how I sometimes felt ;)
<jdong> joejaxx: no, that's my personal inbox :)
<joejaxx> ah ok
<jdong> pfft some people think they're so funny when they figure out how sendmail works
<PriceChild> :)
<jdong> PriceChild: that was my BONUS shipment of e-mails for bouncing his first set :)
<PriceChild> hehe :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: so Unconfirmed bugs for ubuntu-universe-sponsors are the ones up for grabs?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: samba and f-spot are pretty significant
<ajmitch> LaserJock: there's more important stuff I've got to work on
<crimsun> LaserJock: I believe so
<ajmitch> plus some new packages
* ajmitch only has 1 new package in feisty so far
* bddebian has 0000
<ajmitch> bddebian: you're too busy hacking on the hurd
<bddebian> Nope, not me :-)
* joejaxx does not have any
<joejaxx> :(
<joejaxx> :)
* ajmitch counts the number of recent posts to the hurd lists
<bddebian> ajmitch: Aww, I didn't think you cared anymore :-)
<joejaxx> where is the MoM site
<crimsun> http://merges.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> bddebian: I don't
<bddebian> Then WTF are you doing reading the lists? :-)
<ajmitch> I don't read them
<ajmitch> I just get the mail
<bddebian> I'm just killing time until I can truly come home ;-)
<ajmitch> yes, wasting time when you should be working on ubuntu
<imbrandon> ?
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon 
<ajmitch> what's up?
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<imbrandon> nadda
<bddebian> ajmitch: I don't have the time to dedicate atm :-(
<imbrandon> playing with my bday presents
<ajmitch> bddebian: as if
<bddebian> ??
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, we hate you too
<imbrandon> ajmitch: well it will joy you to know i cant get it working ( yet ) in linux
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: unlike my new monitor last night
<imbrandon> you got a new view? nice
<ajmitch> plug in DVI cable, fire up nvidia-settings & it reconfigured twinview nicely
<bddebian> And ya'll don't need me anyhow :-)
<imbrandon> i still have no idea how to get this card wortking
<imbrandon> ajmitch: rocking
<imbrandon> bddebian: yes we do
<ajmitch> nice 3200x1200 desktop now :)
<imbrandon> i hate you
<imbrandon> lol
* LaserJock is an idiot
<ajmitch> it was only a 20" lcd
<ajmitch> to complement the 21" crt on the desk
<imbrandon> ugh phone brb
<imbrandon> i still need to find out how to make a ati "tv wonder 200" work in linux
<ajmitch> hm, ATI
<bddebian> imbrandon: Nah, you've got ajmitch :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: who does nothing but lurk on irc
<imbrandon> heh thats all i've done the last week or so
<bddebian> ajmitch: And I didn't do anything but upload .desktop files that I wasn't supposed too :-)
<imbrandon> is lurk heh
<joejaxx> http://www.ubuntu.com/employment#head-612502a6e6bd165c0cde3a5b1ca19ff84496c14f
<ajmitch> joejaxx: yes?
<imbrandon> joejaxx: ?
<joejaxx> anyone think i whould have a chance at that
<ajmitch> no
<joejaxx> haha :)
<joejaxx> i just wanted to see the response
<joejaxx> </joke of the day>
<imbrandon> not really
* imbrandon dosent wanna touch that beaste
<ajmitch> really, if you're not intimately familiar with OOo, you'd get lost
<ajmitch> there's no way I'd want to touch it
<joejaxx> i know
<joejaxx> it was a joke
<ajmitch> about the only one I'd remotely qualify for would be junior web engineer
<imbrandon> yea ati tv card ( no monitor output )
<LaserJock> "Junior Web Engineer" sounds more fun to me
<ajmitch> ie launchpad flunky
<LaserJock> heh
* ajmitch does 'web engineer' stuff as a day job
* imbrandon does too in a round about way
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> I think I meet nearly everything on the required skills list
<LaserJock> I'm a lab monkey as a day job
<ajmitch> though I'm  not intimately familar with web app frameworks, zope is mainly for hobby stuff
<ajmitch> (for what I've done)
* imbrandon is a "System Administrator" as a day job with other crufty mixed in
* ajmitch is php code monkey
<imbrandon> man to tell you the honest truth i had more fun when i worked as a php code monkey at netsouthern
<imbrandon> but this is a cool job too, justa  diffrent cool
* ajmitch would prefer sysadmin stuff to php
<joejaxx> yeah i am just a student and network system administrator
<imbrandon> yea i like it and the pay better, but "more fun" isnt what i would call it
<bddebian> I want the X maintainer job! :_)
<ajmitch> bddebian: go for it
<imbrandon> i got to tour all the developers offices today /me was jelous
<bddebian> Yeah right, I'm a freakin' moron :-(
<ajmitch> imbrandon: why jealous?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: do you have your own office or are you in the NOC
<imbrandon> they were in the hallway ( big hallway ) playing football
<imbrandon> joejaxx: i have my own office ( not cubical ) /IN/ the NOC
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :D
<ajmitch> with lots of shiny toys
<imbrandon> not yet, but soon ajmitch 
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: probalby now
<joejaxx> not*
<joejaxx> everything whould be in the datacentre
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> imbrandon: they are going to give you toys?
<ajmitch> no, he's going to buy toys for all of us
<imbrandon> joejaxx: not really we have 3 datacenters here in town ( and one in NY ) , two of them are the size of 3 football feilds each on the DC floor 
<joejaxx> yeah
<imbrandon> so lots of room
<ajmitch> impressive size
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yea they are fskin huge, the bigest DC i have ever seen
<LaserJock> crimsun: so once you "ack" a sync do you subscribe ubuntu-archive?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes
<imbrandon> 1and1.com just leased DC space and bandwidth from us in the KC NOC
<imbrandon> talk about big :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: can you look at dmraid, especially? if it's not already done
<ajmitch> I promised rmjb I'd look, but haven't had time or had a working apt-get :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: you broke apt?
<ajmitch> mvo did!
<ajmitch> not me
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> he has a patch for it
* imbrandon decideds not to update tonight
<joejaxx> imbrandon: what company is that?
<imbrandon> wow, funny looking typo
<imbrandon> joejaxx: the one i work for? gsihosting.com
<joejaxx> because there are only a couple which are on that calibur
<joejaxx> oh ok
<imbrandon> we host walmart.com , sprint.com , visa.com and a slew of others
<imbrandon> along with a ton of co-lo stuff
<joejaxx> nice
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'll do it now
<joejaxx> i am actually looking at colo
<joejaxx> for the fluxbuntu dedi's
<joejaxx> but not in ny
<imbrandon> most of the $$ is with the compliant CC hosting though, 60% of all visa cc transations go through our servers
<imbrandon> etc
<joejaxx> wow that is nice
<imbrandon> joejaxx: i work in the KC NOC, the NY one is unmanned offsite backup stuff
<imbrandon> the ones in KC are where the real action is
* ajmitch doesn't have money to burn on getting a colo box
<joejaxx> imbrandon: ohok
<joejaxx> i need something local though
<imbrandon> that was the main reason it took so long to get the job, they had to do a hella background check ( because of all the CC info even though its encrypted 15 ways from hell etc etc etc )
<joejaxx> i am looking at NAC
<joejaxx> yeah that is true
<ajmitch> imbrandon: and they still let you work there?
<imbrandon> leaste i can say with confidance i'm not an axe murderer :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> ajmitch: not only work there i'm one of the few with total building access AND full root/admin access on every box
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: impressive, for a new employee
<imbrandon> yea, kinda scarry
<imbrandon> but like i said hella bg check
<imbrandon> so i think they are covered :)
<imbrandon> the only box i dont have root on is the cray, but its not in production yet
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> so we know where to build packages now
* joejaxx loves supercomputers :(
<LaserJock> imbrandon: did they ask you about your Mt. Dew addiction
<fernando> have any modification in usbserial module of the 6.06 to 6.10? I'm trying to use a kyocera kpc650 after a new ubuntu installation, but usbserial don't creating /dev/ttyUSB[01] , and if created by my hands, its don't work =( somebody have any information about this?
<imbrandon> heh the sad part is the cray will be running TONS vmware machines when it gets put into production :(
<joejaxx> imbrandon: nice
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i have my own little fridge in my office area ;)
<joejaxx> vmware infrastructure
<joejaxx> probably
<LaserJock> "Man bribed by semi load of Mt. Dew releases credit card information."
<imbrandon> joejaxx: yea
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hahahaha
<bddebian> haha
<imbrandon> heh i dont think i could unencrypt the cc info even if i wanted to, but i'm not even gonna try, thats fed time plus loss of a nice job and no luck at another :)
<joejaxx> lol wow the ubuntu server install cd's installation fault interruptions on startup
<joejaxx> and keeps rebooting
<imbrandon> grrr i wish i could get this card working right, why arent tv cards supported ootb
<imbrandon> google sucks in this case
<imbrandon> i hate to stick this thing in a windows box
<imbrandon> mmm speaking of, more mt dew time
<imbrandon> i wonder if they will let me take pictures of the DC and blog about it
* imbrandon will ask tomarrow
<joejaxx> http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/42000132/Images/2/DSC03392.JPG << :D
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, ack'd dmraid
<ajmitch> LaserJock: thanks
<ajmitch> joejaxx: yes, some of us live in less-privileged countries & don't have access to such hardware :)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: that is a cray-sgi
<ajmitch> that's nice
<joejaxx> i do not think most people in the usa have access to it either
<imbrandon> yea a cray at home would be nice
<joejaxx> yeah
<imbrandon> they only start at arround what, 100k for the chasie
<imbrandon> lol
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> wow that pic is an old old old old old cray
* ajmitch only has PCs
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeap
<joejaxx> 16GB of ram
<joejaxx> are there places where you can buy older crays
<joejaxx> other than the intenret
<joejaxx> internet
<imbrandon> the next question is why
<ajmitch> because joejaxx has this thing for getting as much hardware as possible
<imbrandon> i would rather an old sun machine than cray ( unless its purely for the geek factor )
<joejaxx> well
<joejaxx> the only things i really like are supercomputers, blade servers, servers and specialized mobile devices
<joejaxx> oh and cisco hardware
<joejaxx> that is it really
<imbrandon> lol
<joejaxx> oh and laptops
<joejaxx> and then that is it
<ajmitch> not much, really
<imbrandon> hahaha
* ajmitch has all of 3 computers that get much use
<ajmitch> all PCs
<imbrandon> you might as well add desktops in there, its the only thing your missing other than pic controlers
<joejaxx> well i actually do not like desktops
<LaserJock> heh, my wife decided she wants a PDA with wifi the other day
<joejaxx> :)
<imbrandon> desktops are a staple, you need to be able to connect eny of the things you just listed to a desktop in an unconventional way to be a true geeeeeeeek :P
<LaserJock> bah, desktops are so 1990 ;-)
<imbrandon> s/eny/any
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hehehe
<imbrandon> server dosent do much good without a desktop to consume the service it provides
<imbrandon> :)
* ajmitch should just get back to boring old packagign
* imbrandon should too
<LaserJock> imbrandon: that's why laptops were invented
<imbrandon> actualy i prepared some amarok uploads today at work , just never pushed them
<LaserJock> the server is in the basement
<LaserJock> the laptop is for the recliner
<imbrandon> LaserJock: heh
<joejaxx> imbrandon: not really i just have all them clustered
<imbrandon> if i could ever get wireless faster than 802.11b and battery life longer than 3 hours, then i /might/ give up a desktop for a lappy :)
<imbrandon> they day of widespread 12h lappy batterys will come and thats when laptops will be a true utility computer
<imbrandon> untill then i might as well buy a shuttle pc and a lcd, i still have to lug arround just as much 
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: they have 12 hour batteries
<imbrandon> widespread, in almost all laptops
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> ok
<imbrandon> then there will be new uses that bwerent thought about ot put to use because of aptop limitations
<LaserJock> I don't even use my battery
<imbrandon> see
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> I just sit in my recliner and have the laptop on a TV tray
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> or I sit in bed when the wife has gone to sleep
<imbrandon> dont get me wrong i love my laptop, i'm just playing devils advocate and wishing :)
<LaserJock> yeah, well in a day or 2 my new 160GB drive will arrive
<imbrandon> they are great things, i just want so much more i guess
<LaserJock> and then maybe I'll use my desktop more
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> thats whats in my desktop is a 160
<LaserJock> the other thing I'd like to get is a flat panel
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> I have a 17" CRT
<imbrandon> i have a 17crt and a 20crt
<imbrandon> both suck
<imbrandon> the fskin 20in crt is from like 1980 i think LOL
<LaserJock> well, my "computer room" is also the "sewing and crafts" room and "college textbook storage" room
<imbrandon> it weighs like 100lbs
<LaserJock> so anything that takes up much space stinks
<joejaxx> imbrandon: lol
<LaserJock> imbrandon: my lab got rid of like 5 of those
<imbrandon> LaserJock: heh
<LaserJock> huge monsters
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> takes the whole desktop
<imbrandon> litterly
<LaserJock> put then out in the hall for all the "joejaxx"'s in the department could scavange them
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> bah, I need to stop rewording my sentences half way through
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/workzone.jpg   <-- 20 on the left 17 on the right
<imbrandon> and my poor lappy
<imbrandon> that was a few months ago
<joejaxx> LaserJock: lol
* ajmitch hasn't taken the photo of his desk off the camera
<ajmitch> with the new screen
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> i really really really want a 30in apple display
<imbrandon> maybe in feburary i'll try to buy one
<imbrandon> ...
<crimsun> kinda difficult to lug a 30in cinema display onto an airplane
<imbrandon> hahah true
<elkbuntu> all you cruel bastards talking about big screens and my crappy crt is dying and trying to make me go blind :(
<imbrandon> heh you would be more than welcome to mine but i think shipping would be nuts
<elkbuntu> yeah, i think so
<imbrandon> i dont even turn that 17 inch on anymore because i need to pickup a better second vid vard OR a dual head card
<elkbuntu> mum was going to see if one of the spare monitors at the school she's relieving at could accidentally fall into her boot or something, so i might be ok tonight
<imbrandon> the one i had running it was a 1mb trident :)
<joejaxx> so does anyone know? :)
<crimsun> elkbuntu: you should try to get a canonical-sponsored machine
<imbrandon> know what ?
* joejaxx is currently googling it
<Lathiat> imbrandon: hehe i have 4x19" LCDs goign atm and its _best_
<imbrandon> yea elkbuntu 
<imbrandon> Lathiat: i have 4x17in lcd's at work it is nice
<imbrandon> but not at home :(
<joejaxx> imbrandon: where to get old supercomputers
<elkbuntu> heh
<Lathiat> only problem is vino and gnome-screenshot dont seem to see past the first display
<imbrandon> ohh no idea
<crimsun> joejaxx: universities near gov't labs.
<Lathiat> also i cant use composite on it
<Lathiat> (nvidia has a bug atm, where xinerama+composite causes various programs including gnome-terminal to crash if its enabled, but not even in use)
<joejaxx> crimsun: well my school is like that but they do not have a supercomputer likea cray
<LaserJock> imbrandon: dude, I think I had that very same computer desk
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hahah
<joejaxx> crimsun: they have a custom built linux cluster
<crimsun> joejaxx: just get a bunch of ps3s
<ajmitch> Lathiat: can't say I've ever come across that bug
<Lathiat> ajmitch: only when using xinerama nd not twinview
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> figures
<Lathiat> with its xinerama info emulation
<Lathiat> cant twinview accross 2cards+4 displays
<ajmitch> I don't have a 2nd card I can put in my machine
<joejaxx> crimsun: that is no fun :P i rather have an cray someone does not care about
* Lathiat has 2x PCI-E cards so it works quite nice
<ajmitch> since I didn't get the SLI motherboard with 2 x16 slots
* Lathiat nods
<Lathiat> i did, but only because it had 8 sata ports
<joejaxx> crimsun: even though i could cluster ps3 quite nicely that is a thought
<Lathiat> and since i had an sli mobo.. i was inclined to get cards to do SLI :P
<ajmitch> might have been a good idea at the time
<joejaxx> ps3s*
<imbrandon> joejaxx: as expensive as crays are i doubt they sell them AND considering every single cray is custom built 
<crimsun> joejaxx: I'd rather have a brick of the bluegene/l
<Lathiat> funnything now is im only using 3 sata ports
<ajmitch> maybe when I replace this box with something with a bit more power
<Lathiat> cus i built a fileserver now with pci-x cards
<joejaxx> crimsun: yeah that cluster is nice
<joejaxx> really nice
<ajmitch> like dual-cpu, 4 core per cpu
<joejaxx> ibm's bluegene/l
<ajmitch> in a year or two :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: fwoar
<ajmitch> not now
<Lathiat> theres someone here whos windows server i logged into yesterday
<Lathiat> that has 2 dual core xeons
<Lathiat> each core with 2 threads
<ajmitch> nice
<Lathiat> so it shows up as 8 cpus
<imbrandon> nice
<Lathiat> thats kinda speeshul
<Lathiat> if only it wasnt running win2k3.. :)
<ajmitch> best I've had was a T2000, running dapper
<ajmitch> 8-core, 4 (real) threads per core
<Lathiat> you ahd one of those?
<ajmitch> I didn't have it, it was at uni owned by a company I was doing some work for
<ajmitch> they had 4 of them
<Lathiat> ah righ
<Lathiat> t
<Lathiat> nice
<ajmitch> each with 16GB RAM
<Lathiat> disk?
<ajmitch> tiny
<ajmitch> 2x73GB 2.5" SCSI
<Lathiat> heh tiny yet expensive
<Lathiat> SAS?
<Lathiat> i want :(
<ajmitch> not configured with that
<imbrandon> hrm mnepton is on duty right now right ?
* ajmitch shrugs
<imbrandon> mnepton: ping
<imbrandon> hrm, i was tasked today with comming up with the formal documentation to locka  stock ubuntu server down , so we can official transistion all the centos computers to ubuntu
<joejaxx> imbrandon: you are right i will probably just end up expanding my own cluster
<crimsun> LaserJock: when you're ACKing, please ensure the requests follow sync/merge policy. For instance, 74105 is missing the Debian component, and it's not clear whether you've ACKed the report or the fact that Ubuntu changes can be overwritten
<imbrandon> i think thats a job to contract canonical support on :)
<joejaxx> locking down ubuntu is not hard
<ajmitch> imbrandon: depends on how much you want to pay
<imbrandon> joejaxx: yea not hard, but this really has to be very well thought/planned/documented when it comes to credit card info and controled evniroments
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yes that is true
<imbrandon> ajmitch: its not my dime :)
<imbrandon> i'm just the token ubuntu guy on staff
<ajmitch> I know :)
<imbrandon> but it would be nice to be rid of all the centos once and for all
<ajmitch> but you'd have to be authorised to get some support contract, etc
* imbrandon hates rpm's
<imbrandon> ajmitch: definately
<ajmitch> mr mnepton would know far better :)
<ajmitch> he's probably on another shift
<ajmitch> or you could possibly ask jbailey if he's around
<imbrandon> ajmitch: exactly, thats why i was gonna pick his brain on whom to call etc tomarrow
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> crimsun: ah yeah, my bad
<imbrandon> atleaste so i'm a tad more informed when i goto the boss and say "look this si what we should do"
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ^^ :)
<ajmitch> yeah, I read it :)
<imbrandon> the cool part is they were already planning and implmenting this all before i started, so the hard part of convincing them is done, the part thats left is doing it correctly
<imbrandon> ( one reason i think i got the job but it hasent been put into words as much so i'm assuming )
* imbrandon really should do some merges and stuff , feels like he has been slacking the last week
<ajmitch> nah, we understand
<joejaxx> i need to start looking at the debian installer
<joejaxx> ubuntu has no problem handling a Raid 1+0
<joejaxx> right?
<Lathiat> one thing is you cant actually setup raid10 from the installer as a 'raid10'
<joejaxx> because i want to put the ubuntu-base-server on it
<Lathiat> at least not last time i checked
<Lathiat> you can create a raid1 then a raid0 tho
<joejaxx> well actually
<joejaxx> on the poweredge if it is like the proliants
<joejaxx> you build the Raid before you install
<joejaxx> i was just wondering if ubuntu whould not like that
<Lathiat> ah right
<Lathiat> depends on the type of raid controller
<joejaxx> hold on let me see 
<imbrandon> what poweredge ? thats mostly what we use at work , you shouldent have any issue
<imbrandon> 29xx or 28xx
<Lathiat> if its a PERC those are usually ok
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah but i am just wondering if ubuntu is going to like the raid setup
<joejaxx> 1+0
<joejaxx> i have not done raid on ubuntu before
<imbrandon> it dosent care what the raid setup is if its hardware AND you have the raid controler driver
<joejaxx> i have with other linux oses
<joejaxx> imbrandon: oh
<joejaxx> hopefully they have a driver for it
<imbrandon> as i said if you have a poweredge 28xx or 29xx you should be fine
<joejaxx> otherwise i am putting ws2003 enterprise on it
<joejaxx> imbrandon: oh ok
<joejaxx> i probably really should be doing a raid 5 but bah
<joejaxx> anyone know of any colo datacentres in nj?
<joejaxx> i only know of nac
<kkubasik> hey, anyone know how I can start a 3rd party repo?
<LaserJock> get some web space and falcon
<kkubasik> I wanna start my own so we can get some ubuntu users to test the new beagle before we release, but most of them really won't want to compile
<kkubasik> falcon? ok
<LaserJock> reprepo is also used often
<imbrandon> http://seveas.imbrandon.com/dists/dapper-seveas/extras/
<imbrandon> falcon is the second one down
<imbrandon> i think i'm off to bed yall, gnight 
<LaserJock> cya imbrandon 
<LaserJock> glad to see you have some normal hours
<imbrandon> hahaha yea ;)
<imbrandon> for now, i work 12am to 12pm friday night 
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> friday midnight to sat noon
<imbrandon> its my one long day a week
<kkubasik> hmmm, I can't get falcon to recognize a release
<kkubasik> Falcon repository builder 1.5.4 (C)2005-2006 Dennis Kaarsemaker <dennis@kaarsemaker.net>
<kkubasik> D: Ignoring these directories: edgy-kkubasik
<kkubasik> W: No releases were found
<tepsipakki> kkubasik: you have a falcon.ini inside edgy-kkubasik?
<kkubasik> yeah
<kkubasik> its just a 
<kkubasik> [falcon] 
<kkubasik> version=6.10
<kkubasik> oo wait
<kkubasik> it's a .falcon.ini
<tepsipakki> shouldn't it have a release= -line as well
<Amaranth> crimsun: What info did you say I should get before/after hibernate to see if my sound problem are power management related? I think it was something in /proc
<crimsun> Amaranth: /proc/asound/card0/codec*
<Amaranth> ahah
* crimsun goes to find another AP
<Amaranth> alright, rebooting to start testing
<Amaranth> crimsun: There are definitely some differences, mostly Amp-Out values. File a bug and attach these logs?
<crimsun> please.
<crimsun> (and please ensure you're using the latest bios for your model)
<Amaranth> crimsun: I can't use the latest BIOS, it breaks speedstep
<Amaranth> I can't seem to find the package to file a bug against, alsadriver?
<crimsun> edgy? dapper? feisty?
<Amaranth> feisty
<crimsun> linux-source-2.6.19 for now.
<Amaranth> alright
<ademan> anyone here part of the motu mailing list? (can you confirm to me that my message got sent correctly?)
<crimsun> yes, it was.
<crimsun> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-December/001000.html
<Amaranth> crimsun: bug 74472
<Ubug2> Malone bug 74472 in linux-source-2.6.19 "[ALSA]  quiet sound until after hibernate" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74472
<Amaranth> let me know if you need any other data
<crimsun> Amaranth: ok
<ademan> crimsun: any suggestions to maybe get some attention for it?  Like should i provide more info? or just play the waiting game? I don't know the typical response time for this type of thing
<crimsun> ademan: it's best effort, so I can't give you an ETA either
<crimsun> I'm a bit swamped myself currently
* ajmitch is struggling to find time with deadlines this week
<ademan> crimsun: well i really appreciate all the help you've given me so far, unfortunately I feel as though i'm in over my head, even if this wasn't my very first package i'd be in trouble
<Laser_away> ademan: don't feel bad. It takes time and patience
<ademan> Laser_away: yeah i'm more frustrated than anything, because i've been in flux between IDEs since i switched to Ubuntu, from anjuta to eclipse to KDevelop to GEdit then back to anjuta and finally settling on eclipse, then i upgrade to edgy and eclipse's cdt which i depend on doesnt work.  And i'm incapable of getting the job done myself, well, i assume so, since its been a week with no breakthroughs.  I dunno i'm just frustra
<ademan> ted, but I wanna do this myself so that I can contribute to the community
<superm1> hey who is in charge of getting IRC bots into channels?
<superm1> like the log bot
<ademan> whee, i think i've found the answer to the eclipse-cdt problem, well at least part of it
<mnepton> superm1: fabbione runs the log bot
<superm1> ah thanks :)
<Riddell> sivang: any plans for xine 1.1.3?
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> good morning
* elkbuntu huggles dholbach
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<Q-FUNK> #ubuntu-huggies
* dholbach hugs elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> Q-FUNK, if i got there, there'd darn well better be people there to hug me :
<Q-FUNK> :)
* mnepton rubs elkbuntu for luck
<elkbuntu> O.o
<mnepton> *muah*
<elkbuntu> you worry me
<ajmitch> evening/morning mnepton 
<mnepton> hey mitchtopolis
<mnepton> enlighten the populace.
* ajmitch strikes a match
<Sp4rKy> can i get REVU source code for personnal use ?
<Fujitsu> Sp4rKy: Sure; look at the `revu' product on Launchpad. You'll see the bzr branches of the code there.
<Sp4rKy> Fujitsu: i should guess it wis on lp :p
<Sp4rKy> thx :)
<Sp4rKy> and how can i use bzr ?
<Sp4rKy> found :)
<freeflying_> any MOTUs would like review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3671
<zul> hi
<Gloubiboulga> freeflying_: the version should be 1.0-0ubuntu1, and the distro target feisty
<Gloubiboulga> freeflying_: is this a package for ubuntu, or for debian?
<freeflying_> Gloubiboulga: for debian 
* proppy hugs dholbach
<Gloubiboulga> ok, so the version and distro are ok ;)
<xerxas_> is there any motu here ? 
<xerxas_> where should I put my learning effort right now ? 
<xerxas_> in syncs / merges ? 
<xerxas_> I'm having hard time to try to contribute to ubuntu since the begining I want to help ... 
<Gloubiboulga> freeflying_: looks ok to me, but I'm not a KDE expert, and I have not tried to build it - I trust you about this ;)
<freeflying_> Gloubiboulga: thanks
* freeflying_ haven't packageed anything recently
<Gloubiboulga> xerxas_: merges are welcome :)
<xerxas_> Gloubiboulga,  where should I learn how to do merges / syncs ? 
<Gloubiboulga> hum, I think that we have a wiki page about this
<Gloubiboulga> xerxas_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging
<xerxas_> I have read this 
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<xerxas_> I think I don't understand this page: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<xerxas_> what is it ? 
<xerxas_> what are those colors , red, light green, green ? 
<Gloubiboulga> it's the list of the packages that need to be merged
<xerxas_> what are those summaries: 297 outstanding merges
<xerxas_>  ; 30 updated merges
<xerxas_> Gloubiboulga, is it always up-to-date ? 
<Gloubiboulga> xerxas_: it's updated once per day IIRC
<xerxas_> package that needs merge or sync , right ? 
<Gloubiboulga> xerxas_: yes
<xerxas_> Gloubiboulga, what are these colors ? 
<Gloubiboulga> xerxas_: I don't really know actually
<Gloubiboulga> I know that the first part deals with the packages that haven't been merged for feisty yet
<xerxas_> "Outstanding Merges" ? 
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<Gloubiboulga> the updated merges are packages which have already been merged, but need to be merged again (new version in debian)
<Gloubiboulga> xerxas_: you should grab a package and try to merge it
<Gloubiboulga> it's the best way to start IMO
<xerxas_> I tried 
<xerxas_> but done a lot of wrong steps 
<xerxas_> need to go ! 
* dholbach hugs proppy back
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<sivang> Riddell: hi 
<sivang> Riddell: you pinged me about xine?
<Riddell> sivang: yep, just wondering if 1.1.3 should/would be packaged?
<sivang> Riddell: I reckon we should ask siretart , he's the one doing the xine merges AFAIK
<Riddell> siretart: ping ping
<siretart> Riddell: hi
<Riddell> siretart: any plans for 1.1.3?
<siretart> Riddell: I have plans with xine, which includes packaging xine 1.1.3 for both debian experimental and ubuntu feisty
<Riddell> ooh, good answer
<sivang> ;)
<siretart> Riddell: I have to finish my thesis, so don't expect any work on that from me before monday
<Riddell> oh no rush
* dholbach hugs siretart
<Riddell> just didn't want to dropped/duplicated
<siretart> Riddell: If you want to help me, please make anyone prepare an inclusion request for main for ffmpeg
<siretart> Riddell: I really want to get rid of this package split. it is really brain dead
<shawarma> sivang: Hmm... "pinged"? I always thought "ping" in the past tense would be "pang"..
<siretart> Riddell: there is upstream work ongoing, but it is not in xine 1.1.3. perhaps 1.1.4 or even 1.2
<Riddell> hmm, I don't think the archive admins will be too happy with that
<siretart> Riddell: I plan to package the xine ffmpeg plugin in an extra package
<siretart> Riddell: so that it won't be necessarily on cd
<siretart> Riddell: ffmpeg used to be in main, for hoary, you know? 
<siretart> Riddell: mp3 output can be done with the ffmpeg plugin in 1.1.3, so there is no need for libmad anymore
<siretart> Riddell: not sure about the faad thing. this needs research
<siretart> so all in all, I could really need some help with getting ffmpeg into main
<siretart> it is LGPL/GPL, after all. the problematic parts (like mp3 encoding) has already been deactivated
<siretart> the rest is really unproblematic
<bddebian> Heya gang
<tenshu> how long does it take to revu when you reupload a package with changes?
<zul> it varies
<tenshu> ok i can tell it know ~ 5 minutes
<tenshu> :p
<freeflying_> svn-buildpackage broken 
* proppy hugs siretart
<shawarma> It's still customary to give some sort of presentation of yourself at the TB meeting when you apply to be a MOTU, right?
<Tonio_> anyone fancy revuing this : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3673
<Tonio_> thanks :)
<Sp4rKy> hi
<tenshu> hi i have some problems with a package in revu, it's a bit complicated
<Sp4rKy> ^^
<tenshu> the upstream author is unreachable and the guy who hold the source have a 404 website
<tenshu> should i start maintaining the sources myself?
<shawarma> tenshu: What is it?
<Adri2000> ping crimsun Fujitsu 
<malex> I'm looking for pbuilder scripts for Edgy, Dapper, and Breezy. Anyone can help?
<\sh> pbuilder scripts?
<\sh> look her: /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh and adjust it to your needs :)
<malex> \sh: Yes, a script to bootstrap a pbuilder installation for these releases.
<tenshu> you mean wish package shawarma?
<shawarma> malex: Which distro are you running now?
<malex> \sh: That's all there is to it? Sweet.
<shawarma> tenshu: Well, yes.
<\sh> malex: or just wait until I finished my blogentry for this topic :)
<\sh> malex: improved scripts :) even for i386 on amd64 pbuilder
<tenshu> ciso , but i actually in contact with the actual maintainer and his website is down due to quota overload
<tenshu> so i think it solves my problem
<malex> \sh: I'm maintaining an upstream repository for these 3 releases for a specific program. However, my chroots have become pretty cluttered and the users report dependency inconsistencies. So, I've decided to switch to pbuilder to make sure I get the deps right on every build. I'd really appreciate improved scripts if such exist.
<malex> shawarma: As I told "\sh" I currently have several chroots that are not working very well anymore for my local builds, so I'm trying to switch to multiple pbuilder chroots.
<shawarma> malex: Mm... And how does that answer my question? :-)
<malex> shawarma: I'm not running Ubuntu. I have several Ubuntu chroots, so I could build packages for an upstream repository as a favor.
<shawarma> malex: Which distro are you running now?
<malex> shawarma: And to give you the most specific answer - I'm running Debian/Sid :)
<shawarma> malex: Good. 
<shawarma> malex: Fetch the debootstrap package from Edgy. It should install cleanly on Debian.
<shawarma> malex: Before then, /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh will be useless.
<\sh> malex: check the newest article on http://linux.blogweb.de/
<shawarma> malex: Also, before \sh's script will work, you need the debootstrap package from edgy.
<malex> shawarma: debootstrap_0.3.3.0ubuntu8~edgy1_all.deb from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/ ?
<\sh> well...better to use feisties ;)
<Adri2000> dholbach: can I make the debdiff to fix bug 66354 (I'll attach it to the bug) ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66354 in gnome-phone-manager "No icons in menu for gnome-phone-manager" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66354
<dholbach> Adri2000: if you like, sure
<Adri2000> ok
<malex> \sh: debootstrap_0.3.3.1ubuntu1_all.deb 
<shawarma> malex: Yes, orr the one from feisty as \sh says.
<Adri2000> dholbach: bump Standards-Version to 3.7.2 also?
<Adri2000> lintian is complaining
<dholbach> no, leave it out, that just requires more merging
<dholbach> lintian is just whining in that case - that's not terribly important
<\sh> mc
<\sh> argl
<Adri2000> dholbach: ok
<shawarma> I've applied to become a MOTU, so if anyone has anything to say in that matter, there's a TB meeting tonight where you can voice your opinion on the matter.
<phanatic> go shawarma :)
<malex> shawarma: This is great. The debootstrap from feisty has scripts for all distros I need.
<shawarma> malex: Exactly.
<shawarma> malex: It saves you a *lot* of non-trivial work.
* proppy hugs dholbach
<proppy> anyone is up for a REVU ?
<proppy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3601
<malex> \sh: Thanks for the blog entry. I used your script to modify the one I'll use.
<\sh> malex: actually it can create i386 pbuilder chroots on amd64 easily .. and can help you a lot..
<shawarma> \sh: What's that linux32 command you've got in your script?
<\sh> shawarma: it's for amd64 to build 32bit packages..it tells the application to run as i386 app
<\sh> without it it's not possible to build i386 packages on amd64
<shawarma> \sh: I do it all the time..
<joejaxx> shawarma: hello :)
<shawarma> Hi, joejaxx.
<\sh> shawarma: as normal chroot/dchroot yes, but with pbuilder?
<shawarma> \sh: Sure.
<\sh> shawarma: on amd64?
<shawarma> \sh: Why should pbuilder be any different than any other command?
<shawarma> \sh: Yes.
<\sh> I never succeeded without linux32
<shawarma> \sh: Which package is it in?
<\sh> apt-get install linux32
<\sh> linux32 - wrapper to set the execution domain
<shawarma> \sh: I've never had any problems building i386 packages on my amd64 servers.
<shawarma> \sh: ...and I use them on my laptop, so they are built correctly.
<malex> \sh: I'm running i386, but since I need to build for sid/etch/sarge/eft/dapper/breezy, I borrowed ideas from your script.
<\sh> shawarma: it's also mentioned on pbuilders doc page
<Adri2000> please, can someone try to build gnome-phone-manager (apt-get source it) in a feisty pbuilder?
<Adri2000> strange, because I get the same error in an edgy pbuiler, although it didn't fail on the buildds
<shawarma> \sh: Hmm... Interesting. What fails if you don't use it?
<shawarma> Adri2000: Which error is that?
<Adri2000> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ldbus-glib-1
<Adri2000> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<Adri2000> make[3] : *** [gnome-phone-manager]  Error 1
<\sh> shawarma: it fetches amd64 packages and no i386 packages
<shawarma> \sh: That only depends on the dpkg package installed in the pbuilder.
<geser> Adri2000: libgnomeui needs a rebuild against the new libbonobui
<shawarma> \sh: The architecture is compiled into that.
<geser> seb128 will request a rebuild once the archive is unfrozen
<shawarma> \sh: ..so it shouldn't matter after creating the base.tgz..
<Adri2000> geser: ahh ok, thanks for the info :)
<\sh> shawarma: as I said, I never succeeded on opterons :(
<geser> I also wait for it to get a FTBFS resolved
<proppy> crimsun: hi, once you've filled the bug for pypoker-eval sync, when we can expect the sync to occur ? 
<shawarma> \sh: Even with the --arch option on?
<shawarma> \sh: I pass this (among other things) to pbuilder: --debootstrapopts --arch --debootstrapopts $arch
<\sh> shawarma: nope: i just used the --deboostrapopts --arch --debootstrapopts i386 on the creation and not during building
<shawarma> \sh: And at that point it should not matter anymore.
<shawarma> \sh: Hmm... Well, I suppose if some package does some build time arch detection..
<\sh> shawarma: I needed it just for wine, to build on amd64 some 32bit packages
<shawarma> \sh: I see. Well, maybe I should add that to my script. I can imagine cases where it would cause problems, I have just yet to actually experience it.
<Adri2000> geser: Mithrandir said in -devel "manual publisher run going now", it means that the archive is unfrozen, no?
<\sh> Adri2000: nope
<\sh> Adri2000: it's in manual mode ;)
<Adri2000> so what mode was it before?
<\sh> as well in manual mode since freeze
<Adri2000> ok
<\sh> how do we resolve orig.tar.gz diffs between ubuntu and debian?
<\sh> these days I forgot ;)
<fdoving> proppy: i think unittest++ looks good. (i'm not a motu, can't comment on revu).
<shawarma> \sh: orig.tar.gz diffs? Which package?
<proppy> fdoving: thx :)
<fdoving> proppy: the current standards-version is 3.7.2 (iirc).. you've got 3.6.2.1.. only thing i can find.
<shawarma> fdoving: 3.7.2.1, actually.
<fdoving> shawarma: ok. thanks.
<proppy> fdoving: i heard there is a problem to build a source package on 'sarge' if i use > standards-version
<fdoving> proppy: ah.. good point.
<shawarma> fdoving: It's the version of the debian policy that you claim your package adheres to. Hence, you can find the standards-version here: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<shawarma> fdoving: Ah... And it's actually 3.7.2.2 now. :-)
<shawarma> fdoving: ..as of 2006-10-2.
<fdoving> shawarma: are there .diffs ? :)
<proppy> fdoving: will try on a sarge chroot to verify my assertion
<shawarma> fdoving: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/debian-policy/debian-policy_3.7.2.2/changelog
<fdoving> shawarma: makes sense.. thanks again.
<shawarma> fdoving: Any time.
<\sh> shawarma: xfmedia e.g.
<\sh> but I know how to solve it ;)
<shawarma> \sh: How? And why are the diffs in the first place?
<fdoving> \sh: how do you solve it? i'd use whatever upstream provides without repacking.
<\sh> shawarma: typical: package_version-0ubuntu1 ;)
<shawarma> \sh: orig.tar.gz should be the same nonetheless?
<\sh> shawarma: nope...It won't e.g. of file date changes etc. 
<shawarma> \sh: How would that happen? It should be the tarball released by upstream.
<fdoving> shawarma: there are exceptions.. as an example, we sometimes package new kde releases before debian does, and the debian guys does not always use our orig.tar.gz
<shawarma> fdoving: Where does your orig.tar.gz come from?
<fdoving> shawarma: upstream.
<shawarma> fdoving: Where does Debian orig.tar.gz come from?
<fdoving> shawarma: upstream.
<\sh> shawarma: e.g. our orig.tar.gz (xfmedia) has a size of 1025707 and debians 1025229
<shawarma> fdoving: ...then why do they differ?
<\sh> shawarma: e.g. repackging tar.bz2 to tar.gz 
<fdoving> shawarma: because we don't use the .tar.gz origs supplied by upstream. We do fetch from svn.
<\sh> at a different time
<fdoving> \sh: that can be done without untaring.
<\sh> fdoving: yes, but it's one of the cases sometimes
<fdoving> that's why everyone should use watch files.
<fdoving> ..always.
<fdoving> and have a get-origtargz target in debian/rules
<shawarma> fdoving: Well, if it's from SVN it should have another upstream version anyway.
<shawarma> fdoving: Or am I missing something obvious here?
<fdoving> shawarma: i'll find an example... had one laying around.
<\sh> but xfmedia is really strange
<fdoving> shawarma: you're not missing anything obvious.. if everyone understood we need to build the debian/ dir to work with whatever upstream release, it wouldn't be a problem. once someone doesn't we'll get a big mess.
<\sh> ah now I get it...fck
<\sh> who did that
<\sh> who removed the changelog for 0.9.1-0ubutnu1 ?
<\sh> oh fck...changing packages without taking care of debian/changelog
<fdoving> shawarma: an example: http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/source/kdegraphics and http://packages.debian.org/unstable/source/kdegraphics
<fdoving> shawarma: size matches, md5 doesn't. it's not nice.
<\sh> crimsun: could it be that you removed someones changelog entry to 0.9.1-0ubuntu1 ?
<\sh> crimsun: xfmedia that is ;)
<shawarma> fdoving: No, it's definitely not nice.
<LaserJock> \sh!
<tenshu> hi again =)
<\sh> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> I haven't seen you for a while
<\sh> LaserJock: I'm very busy :) but always alive ;)
<LaserJock> good to hear :-)
<\sh> pushing ubuntu to the enterprise user ;)
<LaserJock> yes, very cool
<\sh> LaserJock: and now I'm misusing one fat server of us here, and compile some packages ;)
<LaserJock> \sh: hehe, it's for a good cause
<jdong> aww, imagine that, the newest wine breaks our proprietary compiler chain, just as I was about to roll it out....
<jdong> <sarcasm> good thing I am a super conservative updater and always test all of this stuff beforehands </sarcasm>
<nixternal> crimsun: ping? concerning smb4k
<nixternal> can someone look at smb4k 0.7.5 and see if it is ok to ask for a sync from debian? i am test building, and it should work, there are no ubuntu changes that i can see anymore
<nixternal> http://merges.ubuntu.com/s/smb4k/REPORT  <- if a sync is possible, i believe it will fix this issue (im a pkg newb, so please be gentle)
<proppy> dholbach: thx for the revu :)
<fdoving> nixternal: looks like a sync would be nice.
<nixternal> thanks fdoving, i will set that up now
<fdoving> nixternal: you can have a look at bug 72540 as an example request.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72540 in schedutils "[Feisty MoM]  Please sync schedutils from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72540
<nixternal> rocking!
<dholbach> proppy: anytime - if you need more, please drop me a mail
<proppy> dholbach: ok, got questions regarding the fix needed, do you got time for a few ?
<dholbach> fire away
<proppy> g+= depend is >= 3.3
<proppy> g++
<dholbach> alrighty
<proppy> so its fine with g++ >= 3.3 ?
<dholbach> well, we have that since hoary or even warty
<dholbach> and you're uploading to feisty
<dholbach> so that should be more than fine, but if you like to have it in, that's ok
<proppy> i'm not sure what you mean,
<proppy> du you mean that, given that i upload this package for feisty
<fdoving> proppy: in your case, if it's going into debian, i'd focus on uploading to debian first, then ubuntu can sync from debian, less work for everyone as you only maintain the one version in debian.
<dholbach> the versions of g++ in the ubuntu archive always were >= 3.3
<proppy> ok
<dholbach> fdoving: it's fine if it goes into ubuntu first - especially if debian hits the freeze soon
<dholbach> proppy: but as I said: it's unnecessary, but it does no harm
<proppy> btw it is in the NEW queue of debian too
<dholbach> ah ok
<proppy> so i guess making a special version for ubuntu is not very necessary
<proppy> as the sync will occured ?
<dholbach> we *can* sync out of NEW, but I think the archive admins are happy with syncing from sid
<dholbach> happier
<proppy> i can wait for the package to be in unstable
<proppy> i uploaded it to REVU, to figure out of the process
<dholbach> if you want to get it upload in Ubuntu, that's fine too
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> why do you autoreconf?
<proppy> not really to put it in universe before it's in debian
<proppy> because we use debuild in our developpment process
<dholbach> you can use debuild without running autoreconf too, no?
<dholbach> is .orig.tar.gz the original tarball from upstream?
<proppy> its the tar ball from a cvs copy we keep, in our project tree
<proppy> that i sync with the upstream 
<proppy> each new version
<dholbach> sync? I don't understand
<proppy> the upstream does not use autoconf at all
<dholbach> right
<proppy> i submit a patch to them, they have not included for now
<proppy> +ed
<dholbach> in that case, I'd personally either rename the tarball or change the version number to indicate that or would add a *HUGE* autoreconf patch
<proppy> so i keep a copy of the upstream in our cvs with the patch included
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> I'm not so happy about that
<proppy> i guess its bad :)
<dholbach> because you sell it as '.orig.tar.gz'
<proppy> ok
<dholbach> and it's good to have whatever changes you did in a .diff.gz
<proppy> yep
<proppy> so i should keep the orig.tar.gz
<proppy> *ORIG*
<dholbach> it's what I'd do
<fdoving> proppy: orig.tar.gz should match what upstream supplies. it should preferably be fetchable with uscan (debian/watch).
<dholbach> take the upstream tarball, patch it as it needs to be patched
<proppy> ok
<dholbach> and I wouldn't run autoconf and friends on the build daemon
<proppy> and debuild will generate the proper .diff.gz
<dholbach> I'd do that in a patch also
<proppy> dholbach: you mean autoreconf call in debian/rules ?
<dholbach> yes
<proppy> understood
<dholbach> and build-depending on autoconf, automake, libtool, etc
<dholbach> in general the packaging is sound
<dholbach> it's just the way you deal with upstream delivering a suboptimal tarball
<fdoving> revu should have deb-src repo for all packages.
<proppy> ok
<proppy> dholbach: you suggest that i put the autoconfization for the package
<proppy> dholbach: in a separate patch
<proppy> dholbach: rather than in the diff.gz
<proppy> dholbach: right ?
<dholbach> the patch will be in the .diff.gz as well
<dholbach> but it's my impression that you'll have a better overview over what patches you add, especially if you update the source to the next version and all that
<fdoving> proppy: separate patches are preferred, easier to remove if that's needed at some point.
<proppy> dholbach: but i heard in the openweek, that there is a way to attach patch to cdbs
<proppy> ok
<dholbach> you use cdbs?
<proppy> yep
<dholbach> then it's very easy
<fdoving> proppy: include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk to debian/rules and use cdbs-edit-patch
<dholbach> cdbs-edit-patch 99_autoreconf; ...; autoreconf -i; rm -r autom4te.cache; ctrl-d
<dholbach> that should be it
<proppy> understood
<proppy> that was the session i was talking about :)
<dholbach> nice
* dholbach hugs proppy
<proppy> the first comment s/unstable/feisty
<dholbach> good work on that
<proppy> was for changelog ?
<dholbach> yes
<proppy> ok
<dholbach> our buildds won't accept anything for 'unstable'
<proppy> yep
* proppy hugs dholbach
* proppy hugs fdoving
<proppy> thanks for the hints and fixes
<dholbach> ROCK
<proppy> HARD
<proppy> i guess i will have to keep separate branch or file, for packaging meta-data
<proppy> in our source repository
<proppy> for each distribution
<fdoving> proppy: why? if you maintain the debian package.. ubuntu will sync that. if it's not done automatically you can request it to be synced.
<fdoving> unless there are ubuntu specific changes done to the package.. more than s/unstable/feisty in the changelog.. that is.
<proppy> ok i undestand
<fdoving> i'd also recommend re-uploading the debian package.. and make the orig.tar.gz actually match the upstream tarball.. if possible.
<fdoving> having a debian/watch file is also a very good thing.
<proppy> fdoving: yep i will ask the debiandev here to upload it for me
<proppy> fdoving: i just put me in the situation to upload it to two place at the same time :)
<proppy> which is a bad idea 
<proppy> i should wait for the sync to occur as you suggested
<proppy> but uploading it to revu was not a bad thing afterall, as it suggests me a lot of fixes :)
<proppy> but it will not make its way to universe throught debian, and not throught revu
<LaserJock> proppy: it will get to Universe if it goes into Debian first
<dholbach> ok fellas, I'm off
<dholbach> see you
<LaserJock> cya dholbach 
<nixternal> hey, smb4k needs to be fixed in edgy. the current version has a bug that allows it to write to the sudoers file
<nixternal> i just requested a sync from debian for feisty
<LaserJock> nixternal: my wife had a dream last night that Konan came to our house for a visit ;-)
<nixternal> haha
<proppy> LaserJock: typo :)
<nixternal> he is sleeping in his bed right now
<nixternal> no no
<nixternal> with a K
<ChaosFan> t/wc
<proppy> but it will make its way to universe throught debian and not throught revu
<proppy> that what i wanted to say :)
<crimsun> \sh: entirely possible, though I don't have time atm to check
<nixternal> haha, thought you was talkin' bout da pup
<crimsun> nixternal: pong, what regarding smb4k?
<nixternal> was gonna ask about requesting a sync, but someone responded saying it was good for a sync
<crimsun> proppy: when the archive admins get around to processing the requests; no ETA, since Herd 1 is/was priority
<nixternal> edgy smb4k needs to be updated ASAP, and I don't know the procedure
<nixternal> edgy can be sync'd from debian as well
<crimsun> you just mentioned edgy twice; was that intentional?
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> should have been one line
<nixternal> but i hit enter
<crimsun> file a bug against the edgy smb4k source package, and follow the sync protocol
<nixternal> easy enough
<ajmitch> morning all
<LaserJock> should that go into -security?
<crimsun> nixternal: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000181.html
<nixternal> btw, for feisty smb4k refer to bug 74549
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74549 in smb4k "[Feisty MoM]  Please sync smb4k from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74549
<crimsun> nixternal: err, sorry, that's the procedure for feisty, which you've done
<crimsun> nixternal: so you need to generate a debdiff for edgy-security?
<crimsun> 'morning ajmitch 
<nixternal> gotcha crimsun 
<nixternal> will do now
<\sh> crimsun: just asked...it's ok...I just didn't found the reference, but looking on archive.ubuntu.com gave me the hint that something is missing in the changelog
<crimsun> \sh: ok, thanks for the heads-up
<cinod> Hi there, Im  learning on how to create deb package,and survived helloworld. And Im pretty much going to try some candidates.
<cinod> However, i noticed some candidates already have a deb file in their downloads
<cinod> do i still need to package them?
<\sh> ok..some merges are uploaded and waiting for processing..some syncs as well...tomorrow let's see what I could do to push feisty to the limits ,-)
<crimsun> yay!
<ajmitch> \sh: good to have you back working
<\sh> ajmitch: I would have done more in the past...but I'm really busy here with automation with FAI and other stuff..
<\sh> but it's xmas time ... so everybody slows a bit down...;)
<ajmitch> you've probably done more uploads to feisty than I have already
<\sh> and some 2x dual core machines are just waiting for having a dist-cc running ;)
<LaserJock> cinod: if they aren't in the Ubuntu repos then yes, sometimes you can get the source package from the authors if they already have a .deb
<cinod> Thanks!
<proppy> crimsun: thanks
<mr_pouit> is there a good reason for an uploaded package not to show up in build queue nor in "its related LP page" ? Gloubiboulga uploaded pouetchess SRU for a while, and no sign of it...
<mr_pouit> https://launchpad.net/people/mrpouit/+packages displays sru version, but the link gives an "Oops!" :/
<nixternal> crimsun: should i just file a bug against smb4k and then check the security box?
<keescook> nixternal: yup, but then go in an unset the "private" flag, since it's a public problem.
<nixternal> cool, thanks keescook 
<crimsun> nixternal: what our security dudes said above. :)  Also, make sure you add the required info to #74549.
<nixternal> required info?  more than what I already have in there?
<\sh> smb4k?
<nixternal> \sh: yes
<\sh> is it already usable? last time I talked to the sernet people they are not quite sure that someone should use it until next year 
<nixternal> well, according to the front page of the smb4k.berlios it is, plus it has been packaged in debian as well
<keescook> which reminds me, I need to publish my smb4k audit details ... there will be more security updates for smb4k needed shortly.  :)
<\sh> nixternal: hmmm...looks like I need to have another look on it...
<crimsun> keescook: yeah, it was kinda gross last I looked
<keescook> crimsun: yeah.  :)
<nixternal> bug 74553
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74553 in smb4k "[Edgy Security]  smb4k 0.7.1-1 security issue - immediate attention required" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74553
<ajmitch> hey keescook 
<keescook> hiya ajmitch 
<elektranox> do I have tu build 3 packages for supporting linux-headers-386, 686 and generic? ^.~
<Adri2000> mr_pouit: the archive if frozen at the moment due to the release of herd 1
<Adri2000> s/if/is/
<proppy> what is the *xx*_prefix for file into debian/patches ?
<mr_pouit> Adri2000: ah ok ^^ (since November 29th ? oO)
<Adri2000> yeah, herd 1 is still not out... should be today I believe but I don't know if it's done now
* crimsun introduces nixternal to backporting
<mr_pouit> Adri2000: k, thanks ;)
<crimsun> nixternal: for 74553, you will want to provide the most minimal debdiff possible, not a gigantenormous update to .0.7.5
<crimsun> -\.
<nixternal> hrmm
* nixternal goes at it
<tsmithe> crimsun; could you possibly take another look at my package? :)
<crimsun> tsmithe: possibly, yes :)
<tsmithe> cool :)
<crimsun> meeting for a bit, so I'll do it this evening.
<tsmithe> great!
<elektranox> dholbach: could you review my package again?
<crimsun> for those following TB meeting, I propose imbrandon and LaserJock for MC
* ajmitch was thinking it was going to be somewhat democratic, appears not though
<crimsun> yeah, I was under the impression MOTU would select and approve its own council
<crimsun> I can understand TB's desire to retain approval
<ajmitch> I thought they'd get a list of names & ACK/NAK
<ajmitch> it could probably still work that way
<crimsun> that seems to be the currently discussed approach
<ajmitch> 2 of the 5 are set, it seems
<ajmitch> so 3 spots to fill
<ajmitch> I guess it's crimsun, imbrandon  & LaserJock 
<crimsun> heh, I'd nominate you, ajmitch, instead of myself
<crimsun> my schedule clashes horribly with normal TB meetings
<ajmitch> something to sort out with pitti & dholbach
* ajmitch has not seen vil involved with motu work recently, who is supporting him in the meeting?
<vil> ajmitch: I worked with doko, however he did not make it to todays meeting
<bddebian> Who the heck is vil? 
* bddebian has obviously been missing :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: I don't know
<ajmitch> vil: ok, what did you do with doko?
<vil> ajmitch: packaging of eclipse-pydev
<ajmitch> so 1 package so far?
<vil> ajmitch: helping with packaging eclipse-3.2.1
<bddebian> More than me for feisty :-)
<vil> ajmitch: which means some patching and packaging 2 dependencies
<ajmitch> ok
<crimsun> vil: perhaps you'd like to work with ademan on the eclipse-cdt issues?  [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-December/001000.html ] 
<vil> crimsun: could be, I will definitely have a look at it
<crimsun> vil: thanks
<Adri2000> vil: why aren't you in the ubuntu-members team?
<vil> Adri2000: did not make it yet, TB just had the meeting first
<shawarma> membership is handled by CC, not TB.
<Adri2000> and membership is needed to become a dev, no?
<shawarma> Usually, yes.
* tsmithe wants lots of work to do so he can get some fine business cards
<crimsun> I have another meeting to run off to, but when geser's -dev application surfaces again in a few minutes, please paste my sponsorship to the TB again
* proppy is angry at cdbs-edit-patch
<crimsun> that is:
<crimsun> 15:33 < crimsun> I'll gladly sponsor geser, having worked with him on numerous 
<crimsun>                  syncs and merges
<ajmitch> proppy: patch not applying properly?
<crimsun> 15:34 < crimsun> he has been working in -motu to teach prospective MOTU to 
<crimsun>                  merge, too
<shawarma> crimsun: Will do.
<proppy> ajmitch: patch involving new file creation create file in subdirectory instead of creating them in the root one
<proppy> ajmitch: unittest++-1.2.0/unittest++-1.2.0/configure.ac for exemple
<proppy> ajmitch: instead of unittest++-1.2.0/configure.ac
<ajmitch> heh, impressive
<LaserJock> what did I miss?
<proppy> ajmitch: i must have missed something
* ajmitch has manually fixed up broken patches in the past
* imbrandon looks up
<imbrandon> whats going on ? heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: being a superstar
<ajmitch> imbrandon: TB meeting
<imbrandon> ahh
<proppy> TB?
* imbrandon looks
<plugwash> iirc simple-patchsys tries several different -p levels
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> proppy: TB == technical board
<plugwash> which it clearly does to try and be helpfull but clearly the one it tries first and the one its edit tool produces are different
<ajmitch> imbrandon: vil is getting his grilling now
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> i havent worked with vil much at all
<imbrandon> so i'm keeping quiet
<imbrandon> whats up with MC ? ( MC == greyskull ? ) /me is a bit lost on that convo
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yes, sounds like officially it will be MOTU Council
<LaserJock> unofficially Council Grayskull, mwuahahaha!
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> did the TB talk of it today or something? sorry i got online late 
<zul> i have the power!
<jdong> ok, this might just be my brain dying after a long day... but is there any way to have a pipe / fifo buffer to the HD?
<jdong> HD being hard disk
<jdong> from what I see a fifo doesn't do that
<zul> ick java
<geser> imbrandon: there was a short discussion about MC
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> heya geser 
<LaserJock> zul: it exists and people use it, can't do a whole lot about it ;-)
<imbrandon> guess i'll read the logs later
<zul> LaserJock: true but i dont have to like it ;)
<LaserJock> of course
<LaserJock> I'm part of an open source chemistry group
<shawarma> Is this a particularly slow meeting or does it just feel that way because I'm standing in line?
<LaserJock> and over half of the participating projects are Java
<Lure> imbrandon: TB will ask MOTUs to nominate candidates for council and TB plans to ack them on next meeting
<zul> shawarma: because you are standing in line
<shawarma> Of course, I usually read the logs. That feels a lot quicker. :-)
<shawarma> zul: I suspected that. 
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<jdong> hmm, O_NONBLOCK when open()ing a fifo, apparently....
<Lure> imbrandon: they just said that they would like some core-dev's in and more non-canonical council, so you are a good candidate ;-)
<imbrandon> so is ajmitch and crimsun and LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> well, imbrandon ajmitch and crimsun are core-devs
<imbrandon> when are they taking noninations ? now ?
<LaserJock> dholbach is Canonical and core dev
<LaserJock> I would like to see one more Canonical
<Lure> imbrandon: probably by e-mail until next meeting...
<LaserJock> but I don't know
<Lure> imbrandon: pitti is supposed to talk with dholbach
<jdong> wait, no, that just errors out if the fifo ain't connected
<imbrandon> Lure: ahh ok
<Lure> LaserJock: what is the point in more canonical? 
<LaserJock> getting more feedback
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I think pitti may be put on the team, I don't know
<LaserJock> more support
<ajmitch> you could ask him
* imbrandon gets back to work, ping my name if i'm wanted/needed for something :)
<LaserJock> that would cool
* imbrandon is still at work for another hour
<jdong> "BURN-Free was 279 times used."
<jdong> if cdrecord is supposed to use Ingrish could we at least make it funnier ;-)
<malex> Edgy pbuilder chroot is not being set up -  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/man/man1/mesg.1.gz', which is also in package sysvutils
<siretart> vil: congrats for MOTUness!
<malex> That's for /var/cache/apt/archives/sysvinit-utils_2.86.ds1-36_i386.deb
<jdong> malex: that's the version of sysvinit-utils in Debian Sid
<vil> siretart: thanks a lot
<jdong> malex: are you sure you're bootstrapping edgy?
<malex> Yes, I"m bootstrapping edgy
<vil> siretart: let's see, what happens now :)
<jdong> malex: again, are you sure :D
<malex>  MIRRORSITE="http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu"
<malex>  DISTRIBUTION=edgy
<malex> jdong: Actually even with --override-config --configfile $BASE_DIR/$DISTRIBUTION/pbuilderrc pbuilder seems to be pulling OTHERMIRROR from ~/.pbuilderrc and OTHERMIRROR is a Debian source list. I wonder if the "OTHERMIRROR=" will override that.
<malex> Yup, the variables that are not set in a local pbuilderrc seem to be pulled from the next pbuilderrc up the chain. 
<proppy> ajmitch: nice, i've fixed my cdbs-edit-problem
<proppy> ajmitch: looking at simple-patchsys.mk
<proppy> putting #DPATCHLEVEL=1 at the beginning of the patch do the work
<ajmitch> useful
<proppy> level=$$(head $$patch | egrep '^#DPATCHLEVEL=' | cut -f 2 -d '='); \
<proppy> then it called patch -p$$level
<proppy> seems to be patch -p0 if no DPATCHLEVEL= in your patch file
<LaserJock> shawarma: did you go yet?
<shawarma> LaserJock: No.
<shawarma> LaserJock: it's happening now. :-)
<ajmitch> everyone go & cheer for shawarma 
<ajmitch> shawarma: I recall looking at some of your packages, etc
<raphink> ooh TB :)
<ajmitch> hey raphink 
<raphink> hi ajmitch :)
<tsmithe> go soren go soren go soren!
<proppy> can a patch file handle empty directory creation ?
<proppy> seems not
<raphink> not empty directory I think
<raphink> but empty file yes
<raphink> iirc
<proppy> can a .patch file patch debian/rules ? :)
<raphink> sure
<proppy> nice
<raphink> but then it's not recommended to call it from debian/rules
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> a .patch file can patch anything ;)
<ajmitch> unexpected things may occur
<proppy> it's not considered *evil* ?
<ajmitch> sure it is
<raphink> but patching the contents of debian/ from within the package build might be dangerous
<ajmitch> quite evil
<ajmitch> especially if you patched & then reinvoked debian/rules
<raphink> I wonder if policy talks about that
<raphink> specifically
<raphink> good point ajmitch :)
<proppy> :)
<ajmitch> raphink: I've heard of packages doing that
<raphink> since patching is not indempotent
<raphink> ajmitch: I've seen such horrible packages, I don't want to hear about worse
<raphink> :)
<ajmitch> haha
<proppy> :)
<tsmithe> well done shawarma 
<raphink> I think I'm going to prepare a packaging course for my company :)
<proppy> i'm trying to move configure.ac/Makefile.am creation from diff.gz to a standalone patch
<shawarma> Whee!
<ajmitch> shawarma: now get to work
* proppy hugs shawarma
<LaserJock> shawarma: well done
<shawarma> It would be ok to patch the control file, though.
<shawarma> ajmitch: Will do. Now I just have to figure out how all this uploading thing works.
<raphink> welcome shawarma
<LaserJock> shawarma: in my email I told them you had good Mao abilities, I think that's what won them over ;-)
<proppy> do a package is supposed to build without applying patches/*,  by this i mean does all the patches/* must be optionnal ?
<shawarma> LaserJock: LOL. I'm sure that was it. :-)
<shawarma> proppy: No.
<shawarma> proppy: Not at all.
<proppy> shawarma: nice to hear
<psusi> the purpose of having patches/* is to keep our patches outside the upstream source so you can easily drop updated upstream source in place and the patches can ( hopefully ) be easily applied to the new source
<raphink> hopefully
<raphink> :)
<proppy> psusi: so you can put dependand things in diff.gz and patches/*
<shawarma> psusi: stuff in patches/* ends up in diff.gz..
<raphink> should at least
<shawarma> psusi:  diff.gz is applied to orig.tar.gz forming your entire source tree including everything.
<raphink> except for the dirty upstream packages that already have a debian/ dir and patches that coem from no one knows where
<shawarma> proppy: ^^ That was meant for you.
<proppy> shawarma: yep but stuff in patches/* got applied when debuilding
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe LP can have it's own tinyurl
<proppy> and diff.gz when extracting the source package
<raphink> the source package is extracted before building proppy
<raphink> when building the package, the orig.tar.gz tarball gets extracted, then the diff.gz gets unzipped and applied
<raphink> and then only the package gets built
<crimsun> is TB over?
<tsmithe> nope
<tsmithe> geser is being grilled
<proppy> raphink: that's what i wanted to mean :)
<proppy> diff.gz and patches/* doesn't get applied at the same time
<raphink> what shawarma said is that the files in patches/ are usually in the diff.gz
<raphink> so the debian/patches directory, when present, is created when diff.gz is applied
<proppy> yep i agree
<raphink> and then debian/patches/* patches are usually applied during the build
<raphink> depending on the packaging strategy
<raphink> and the tool used (dpatch, cdbs's simple-patchsys, manual patching stamp rule, etc...)
<crimsun> congrats vil, shawarma, geser!
<vil> crimsun: thanks!
<crimsun> I think I can step back from u-u-s a happy person 
<geser> crimsun: thanks, less work for you
<proppy> raphink: thanks for clarification
<tsmithe> well done geser!
<siretart> shawarma: geser: Welcome onboard! good to have you around!
<geser> siretart: thanks
<LaserJock> geser: wahooo \o/
<geser> LaserJock: thanks
<ajmitch> geser: congrats
<geser> ajmitch: thanks
<shawarma> siretart: Thanks!
<poningru> a friend wants to quickly submit something to revu
<poningru> does he needs to get universe contributer member status?
<shawarma> What is needed to post comments on REVU?
<proppy> poningru: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Adri2000> poningru: yes
<proppy> poningru: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors/+join
<poningru> hmm ok thanks
<poningru> thanks
<shawarma> siretart: What is needed for me to be able to comment on packages on REVU?
<siretart> shawarma: telling me your revu login
<ajmitch> shawarma: a revu admin to change your status
<ajmitch> siretart: ah good, you're around to fix it :)
* ajmitch is out for an hour
* siretart needs sleep. badly :/
<nixternal> keescook: answer to your response on the smb4k post. Right now == no. I don't know if it just consists of fixing the smb4kfileio.cpp&h or if there is more. There were a lot of fixes to the code since the 0.7.1 release
<shawarma> siretart: sh@linux2go.dk
<nixternal> didn't think a response like "im a code flunky, not a code monkey" wasn't all that appropriate for the report :)
<keescook> nixternal: yeah, that's cool.
<shawarma> siretart: It can wait, though.
<nixternal> give me a few more more months when i am up to part at least 75%
<proppy> fdoving: ping
<fdoving> proppy: ack.
<keescook> nixternal: heheh.  no problem.  I think Riddell has done work with smb4k, maybe he knows someone that would be able to do the backport?
<proppy> fdoving: does watch file hande .zip file ?
<proppy> fdoving: s/hande/handle
<nixternal> cool, im sure he can spot someone out of the crowd
<siretart> shawarma: you are reviewer now :)
<fdoving> proppy: hmm.. don't know.. check 'man uscan'.
<shawarma> siretart: Thanks!
<proppy> fdoving: uscan == debian/watch tool ?
<proppy> fdoving: thanks for hint :)
<fdoving> proppy: yes. i know dpatch-get-origtargz does not support anything but tar.gz, but that doesn't really matter.
<fdoving> proppy: no problem, I have to go sleep a little. bye.
<fdoving> nite.
<proppy> fdoving: seeya
<shawarma> When we accept a sync request from a non-MOTU, we remove ubuntu-universe-sponsors' subscription and add ubuntu-archive, right?
* shawarma sees the time and realizes he has to run to catch the last bus home..
<shawarma> ....but still takes the time to write about it on IRC. Weirdo.
<proppy> shawarma: same here :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-06
<geser> shawarma: looking through my old sync requests ubuntu-archive got additionally subscribed (u-u-s is still subscribed)
<LaserJock> yeah, I think just add on  u-u-s
<jonh_wendell> any motu guy here?
<jonh_wendell> i have a doubt about a review
<geser> jonh_wendell: ask
<jonh_wendell> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3584
<jonh_wendell> the 3rd topic on dh@mailempfang.de review. what does he mean?
<geser> you mean the python-all-dev build-dependency?
<jonh_wendell> geser, yes. i already have this dependency...
<jonh_wendell> i didn't understand...
<geser> if you build-depend only on python2.4-dev your package will support only python2.4 as the files are only installed in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages
<geser> if python will change to python2.5 as default you will have to update your package
<geser> with python-all-dev it will support python2.5 since now
<jonh_wendell> geser, see my build-depend: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5.0.0), python-all-dev, python-gtk2-dev
<jonh_wendell> where is python2.4??
<geser> $ apt-cache show python-all-dev | grep Depends
<geser> Depends: python-all (= 2.4.3-11ubuntu3), python-dev (= 2.4.3-11ubuntu3), python2.4-dev, python2.5-dev
<geser> it's pulled in though python-all-dev
<jonh_wendell> geser, so, what's the solution?
<geser> according to the debdiff you already changed it
<jonh_wendell> geser, to say the truth, i did not understand one word from dholbach...
<geser> it's about which python versions your package will support
<geser> if you build-depend on python2.4-dev you will need python2.4 installed
<geser> if you build-depend on python-all-dev you need to have python2.4 or python2.5 installed
<geser> you don't have to fix your package if everything changes to use python2.5 by default
<jonh_wendell> geser, i understand it, but i did not understand why he wrote this if i already depend on python-all-dev, like he suggested
<geser> jonh_wendell: if I understand it he commented on the version which didn't have this change yet
<jonh_wendell> strange...
<jonh_wendell> the 4th comment, did you understand, geser?
<geser> your had .svn/ dirs in your tar.gz (if I understand if correctly)
<geser> also already fixed according to the last comment
<jonh_wendell> geser, so, i have to do nothing so far, right?
<jonh_wendell> geser, and about last 3 comments? really i did not understand
<shawarma> Laser_away: Er... You mean "just add on u-a", right?
<geser> jonh_wendell: have your read the Debian Python Policy?
<jonh_wendell> geser, yes
<geser> about the "E: fala: python-script-but-no-python-dep" point: I haven't checked but I would assume that the binary package is missing a python depencency
<geser> sorry, I'm not very familiar with the python policy
<jonh_wendell> right
<geser> * debian/control: any -> all : your package is architecture independent therefore doesn't need to be build on every arch
<geser> * debian/rules: move the build steps to binary-indep: this has to do with the former point
<geser> build target is for architecture specific compilations
<geser> and binary-indep is for architecure independent compiles
<geser> both can even be used in the same rules file if you build a archictecture specific deb and an arch independent deb (e.g. a -doc package)
<fernando> hi all
<gnomefreak> was bitlbee merged yet?
<ajmitch> gnomefreak: it's not on the merge list
<ajmitch>    bitlbee |  1.0.3-1.1 | http://apt-proxy feisty/universe Packages
<gnomefreak> that would mean its done?
<ajmitch> note that it never needed merged
<gnomefreak> ah crap
<ajmitch> it was synced automatically
<gnomefreak> we have issue with it and i would have thought merge would have handled it
<gnomefreak> it doesnt install on feisty with the following error (makes me think its an upstream issue but not sure if merge or upstream)
<gnomefreak> /var/lib/dpkg/info/bitlbee.postinst: 25: update-inetd: not found
* gnomefreak not sure what update-inetd is 
<imbrandon> thats a problem in ltsp server, you have to downgrade netkit
<imbrandon> for somereason the netkit binry package dosent have it anymore
<imbrandon> i havent had time to look at it
<gnomefreak> ok ty imbrandon 
<imbrandon> s/in ltsp server/in ltsp server also/
<imbrandon> gnomefreak: just manualy downgrade your netkit binary from edgy for a stop-gap , maybe me or someone will get a chance to fix it soon
<gnomefreak> ok
<imbrandon> woot i love my workstation bandwidth, just wish i could use it for something other than downloading
<imbrandon> Download Speed: 9942 kbps (1242.8 KB/sec transfer rate)
<imbrandon> Upload Speed: 4713 kbps (589.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
<ajmitch> gnomefreak: merges don't magically fix all bugs
<ajmitch> imbrandon: the *easy* way is to install update-inetd
<gnomefreak> ajmitch: no but syncs do
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<ajmitch> update-inetd |   4.27-0.2 | http://apt-proxy feisty/main Packages
<gnomefreak> that will work?
<imbrandon> ahhh , netkit used to include update-inetd iirc 
<imbrandon> but yea that would be much easier
<imbrandon> :)
<gnomefreak> someone is testing it atm
<gnomefreak> its his issue but i tried to duplicate it
<gnomefreak> and got to wondering
<ajmitch> a number of packages are affected
<imbrandon> probably got the binary split out and just needs to add it to the depends
<ajmitch> maybe
<imbrandon> i know ltsp-server is affected
<ajmitch> I've heard that's not the case though
<ajmitch> & samba
<imbrandon> ahh
<ajmitch> & anything else using it
<imbrandon> wonder what it was if that wasent it
<ajmitch> 08:01 < cjwatson> we could also just make our netbase depend on update-inetd for a while
<ajmitch> so it may be fixed elsewhere
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> not perminately it dosent look like
<ajmitch> hence why I haven't added the dependency to samba while merging (iirc)
<gnomefreak> that would almost be too easy (just to add a depend to the control file?)
<imbrandon> then again not much is perminate in comp[uters
<ajmitch> no, the permanent solution is to switch to another -inetd package, I think
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> that's what they were discussing right before that
<ajmitch> 08:00 < cjwatson> one alternative would be switching to openbsd-inetd, since that depends on update-inetd
<ajmitch> 08:00 < cjwatson> and then netbase would pull it in
<ajmitch> 08:01 < ogra> does it behave any different to netkit-inetd ? i never tried it
<ajmitch> 08:01 < cjwatson> we could also just make our netbase depend on update-inetd for a while
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> makes sinse
<imbrandon> sense*
* imbrandon likes *bsd tools
<imbrandon> i almost installed BSD/Debian instead of Ubuntu about 2 years ago :)
<jderose> I'm working on a Python app that needs to map iso-639 language codes to a localized language name. It seems I should use the data in the "iso-codes" package... does anyone know of a package that does this that I can look at as an example? Or any quick pointers on how to do this with the Python?
<minghua> jderose: I don't know much about python, but iso-codes provides PO files which you can use gettext tool to extract the translations you need
<fernando> jderose: http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/module-gettext.html
<jderose> minghua: yes, I understand how to go from the English name for the language to its translated name based on the locale (e.g., gettext "iso-639" "Spanish"). But I want to map the 639 code to the English name (e.g., es=>Spanish). Maybe the data in iso-codes isn't even what I use for this.
<fernando> Somebody can to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3591 ?
<minghua> jderose: give me a second, I'm looking at the iso-codes package now
<jderose> minghua: thanks so much! (hope this isn't a silly question.)
<minghua> jderose: no, not silly at all
<minghua> and I am interested in this myself, as one of my package has a long language list as well
<minghua> it would be useful to figure out how to use iso-codes in other packages for me
<jderose> great. ;) i'm sure i could come up with some hack to do this, but i really what to do it by the current Ubuntu best practice, so i'm asking.
<PLEASEHELP> what is this room for?
<minghua> jderose: do you have a iso-codes source at hand?
<minghua> jderose: I found that iso_3166/iso_3166.xml has the 2/3-letter code and the English name
<jderose> minga: after just greping though iso_639.xml a bit, it seems that all the information i need is in there, but the rest of my problem is i just don't know much about xml parsing, like what parser i should use in Python... yeah, i'm looking at the iso-codes files right now.
<minghua> jderose: however the README says the XML format is in flux, and you need to contact the author if you want to use it
<jderose> hmmm... so there is no ubuntu library that abstracts the current format?
<minghua> jderose: well, the notes/Country.pm file seems a perl module to do the transform for you
<jderose> minghua: actually, looks like the "language-selector-common" package might hold the key: written in Python, depends on iso-codes. 
<minghua> jderose: sounds good :-)
<minghua> it seems this is not the problem iso-codes is trying to solve
<minghua> python should already have something to translate the code to English name
<jderose> maybe not. seems like a handy thing for say, totem when playing a dvd
<jderose> do you know where i should look?
<minghua> perl has Locale::Country for that (already in perl-modules)
<jderose> (for such a module, class, whatever in python?).  gettext doesn't seem able to do that, unless i'm missing something.
<minghua> no, that's not gettext's area either
<jmon> devolpment?
<jderose> minghua: thanks for your help! as far as Python goes, it looks like /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/LanguageSelector/LanguageSelector.py is a good example. cheers! ;)
<minghua> jderose: you figured that out yourself :-)
<jderose> minghua: well, i still appreciate your time.
<imbrandon> ...
<SAdministrator> hello
<SAdministrator> welcome back
* imbrandon never left :)
<SAdministrator> :D
<SAdministrator> imbrandon i might start purchasing more xbox's now that they are about ~80-90
<zul> hey imbrandon 
<SAdministrator> hello zakame 
<SAdministrator> zul *
<imbrandon> heay zul 
<ajmitch> imbrandon: what's up?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: nadda
<imbrandon> just piddleing with some packages and my mail server
<imbrandon> getting ready to head to sleep i think
<imbrandon> you?
<imbrandon> gnight all
<crimsun> ademan: you may wish to ask vil for assistance with eclipse-cdt
<ademan> crimsun: thanks I'll bother him, i actually think i may be on to something right now though, but i'll definitely talk to him
<ademan> vil: In case crimsun's message didn't highlight, hopefully this one will, I'm trying to package an upstream update of the eclipse-cdt (because the current one doesn't work with eclipse) I'm having no luck thus far. i'd appreciate any help you can offer
<ademan> hahah weak
<crimsun> ?
<ademan> vil has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
<crimsun> (that was not an intentional disconnect)
<ademan> i know, just bad timing
<ademan> hey crimsun: i'm trying to do uupdate with the -p option but it dumps a bunch of binary crap to my console and asks me to patch a certain file (whos name is also binary crap),  should i untar everything before i try to patch?
<ademan> i assume the binary crap is just cause its gzipped
<crimsun> need more details (please pastebin)
<ademan> there was so much dump it went off the screen, but i'll show you what i got
<ademan> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/5cYKQQ60.html
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> I wouldn't use the uupdate(1) approach
<ademan> what should i do alternatively?
<crimsun> I haven't studied eclipse-cdt, else I'd have walked you through it already :)
<ademan> well i think i finally was able to match the source tree that's in the original source package
<ademan> maybe i'll just try doing it without the -p option
<ademan> crimsun: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/yd3CAs58.html
<ademan> same crap as always, i coulda sworn i had it this time
<ademan> if its worth anything i ended up with a folder in the package dir named "results" which was part of the archive
<crimsun> ademan: sorry, troubleshooting totem/gst/alsa atm
<Burgundavia> crimsun: that fun?
<crimsun> ademan: where's the new original upstream tarball?
<ademan> crimsun: i believe i got disconnected but did you see the error dump i showed you? same crap as always
<ademan> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/yd3CAs58.html in case it got lost
<superm1> hey guys, i'm running into something weird happening with my pbuilder:
<superm1> dpkg-genchanges: error: badly formed line in files list file, line 5
<superm1> the thing is, i don't have a single debian/files, but instead multiple *.files for the misc packages produced
<superm1> and i cna't identify anything particularly wrong with them
<ademan> superm1: i wish i could help, but i've got pbuilder problems of my own, plus i suck at this lol
<superm1> :)
<superm1> the pbuilder itself is good, i've used it dozens of times.  i just can't figure out what i did to the package to mess it up this bad :)
<dholbach> good morning
<tenshu> hello all
<sivang> morning
<sivang> dholbach: will you be willing to sponsor me an irda-utils merge btw ? (I know I owe you a gnome-themes merge though ;)) the upload is at http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/merges/
<dholbach> can you file a bug, attach the debdiff and subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors?
<dholbach> I'm quite busy atm
<ademan> dholbach: can u subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to a bug without a debdiff? i've been butting my head against this stupid eclipse-cdt for about a week and a half to no avail now.  My head's starting to hurt :-)
<dholbach> ademan: read again
<dholbach> "attach a debdiff" :)
<dholbach> but a package should be fine also
<ademan> well dholbach that's my whole problem, i can't attach a debdiff, or even a package, i cant get the stupid thing to work
<dholbach> ademan: doko is your man for eclipse - he just said that "you can't use uupdate with a zip file"
<ademan> i'll continue to work at it, but it would be good if it got some attention from more capable hands
<ademan> or a tar.gz?
<sivang> dholbach: never mind, slomo turned up ;)
<ademan> dholbach: well i bothered doko once and he said he'd never touched the cdt, and he was too busy to mess with it, i don't hold it against him, i just take it he's not in a position to help
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> i'm sorry to say that I never touched anything java related, so I'm probably not the best person to talk to
<dholbach> and I don't know which parts are important for packaging
<dholbach> maybe you could talk to the debian maintainers or the upstream folks about that?
* ajmitch wonders if the sync request he filed earlier got to malone
<ajmitch> no, it didn't
<ajmitch> how odd
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh 
<doko> ademan: you could ask vil as well ...
<\sh> hmm...how many days we have to wait until syncs are going through?
<slomo> \sh: depends... some of mine are waiting already 3 weeks, some others got processed after 2 days ;)
<ademan> doko: yeah, i was about to when he timed out
<TheMuso> dholbach: If you were wondering about lsr for feisty, 0.3.2, i.e the latest has been uploaded to feisty.
<dholbach> TheMuso: I noticed - thanks a lot for the good work
<TheMuso> dholbach: np
<TheMuso> Where can I find out more about the backport submission process?
<\sh> slomo: hmm...
<ajmitch> \sh: depends on how busy they are
<\sh> so lets wait after herd 1
<ajmitch> which should be "real soon now"
<ajmitch> there have been a number of bugs to get sorted 
<\sh> any ppc experts there and have time to check this build log? http://librarian.launchpad.net/5255140/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-powerpc.dietlibc_0.30-4ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ajmitch> if we're going to need to care about ppc soon :)
<ajmitch> \sh: please make sure you follow the merge policy & list the remaing changes from debian
<ajmitch> "Merge from debian unstable" is no longer enough
<\sh> ajmitch: including the last changelog entries is not enough?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> they don't detail historic ubuntu changes
* ajmitch had to go through & dig up what ubuntu changes were made back from warty & hoary for a package, to document them in the 'remaining changes' section
<ajmitch> makes it easier for the next time things are merged
<\sh> hmm? did I miss a documentation about that?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> it's on ubuntu-devel-announce somewhere
* ajmitch digs for link
<geser> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000182.html
<crimsun> nice to see our new MOTU stepping up :)
<ajmitch> thanks
* ajmitch was getting there :P
<\sh> ajmitch:so you mean adding old  changes from ubuntu to actual changelog entry
<\sh> e.g. tomcat5.5, doko added libxml4j-dev to build-dep in x.y-zubuntuR , this we have to document in latest changelog entry
<crimsun> if it's still there, yep
<\sh> .oO(that's too easy for newbies ,->)
<\sh> ok...will be done..sorry for the mess
<ajmitch> no problem, thanks for doing all these merges :)
<ajmitch> I just saw a flood on the changes list
<ajmitch> I'm almost at the bottom of the list of packages with my name on them for the merge list
<wsb> Hi, I've some troubles formating a eula text to fit in debconf template, did so. know about a script doing this ? (replacing newline adding dots...)
<gnomefreak> sun-java5-plugin for some reason is depending on iceweasle and wont install due to that. unless things changed i last remember we are keeping firefox.
<StevenK> We were when that whole mess was raised when Debian switched.
<StevenK> mdz (from memory) would know more.
<StevenK> Maybe we could have our firefox packages Provides: iceweasel ?
<StevenK> That's more a question for iwj, though. :-)
<gnomefreak> as of right now we are sticking with FF so all packages should depnd on that if they need a browser as a depend not one that might or might not be included. but either way sun-java5-plugin is broken that was what i was meaning. i am filing a bug on it as we speak
<StevenK> gnomefreak: Did someone request a sync of sun-java5-plugin, and break it?
<gnomefreak> dont know
<gnomefreak> i didnt see one
<gnomefreak> not that i see
<gnomefreak> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/sun-java5/+bugs
* ajmitch blames the circus midgets
<gnomefreak> well thats was i was thinking whomever merged it kept debians version but never changed the control file to not depend on ice*
<gnomefreak> brb need to start coffee IV
<StevenK> Ahhhh, it's doko
<StevenK>  1.5.0-08-0ubuntu1 was imported into Feisty from Edgy, and 1.5.0-10-0ubuntu1 was uploaded directly to Feisty.
<StevenK> So get him. :-P
<gnomefreak> if i see him ill ping him today. if i had an successful builds i would attempt it
<jonh_wendell> dholbach, good morning
<dholbach> hi jonh_wendell
<jonh_wendell> dholbach, you have reviewed my package, but i guess you got the wrong upload... btw, i tried to follow your comments. can you review it again?
<jonh_wendell> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3683
<dholbach> i'm busy with other stuff now, sorry
<dholbach> if you drop me a mail i'll do it
<dholbach> i clicked on the link you sent me
<jonh_wendell> dholbach, thanks
<ajmitch> jonh_wendell: why do you say it's the wrong upload? all comments for previous uploads are displayed on the page
<ajmitch> dholbach didn't comment on the last 2 uploads of your package
<jonh_wendell> ajmitch, because some daniel comments i had already  done
<ajmitch> in the version he reviewed, they weren't done
<dholbach> i commented on what was there at the time
<jonh_wendell> btw, yesterday i uploaded it again with some modifications
<jonh_wendell> ajmitch, dholbach: i'm talking about this because i did not understand some Daniel comments, and geser helped me with that opinion: that comment was 'obsolete' :)
<jonh_wendell> sorry if i made any mistake
<dholbach> I just reviewed what was there at the time
<dholbach> maybe you did an upload shortly afterwards, I don't know
<jonh_wendell> dholbach, no problem. i thank you because you're getting some time for me
<dholbach> that's fine, i'm happy if I can help
<jonh_wendell> definitely it's easier to develop than to package
<crimsun> both are difficult
<dholbach> vil became MOTU
<dholbach> yooohooo
* dholbach add it to the UWN
<dholbach> can we try to make this a habit? :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: don't forget the others!
<dholbach> i'm just working my way through it
<dholbach> (log)
<ajmitch> dholbach: once the motu council is up & running, it should be a more regular thing
<ajmitch> to have reporting to UWN, etc
<ajmitch> since that's in the job description :)
<xerxas> <crimsun> both are difficult 
<xerxas> Happy to hear that 
<xerxas> I was starting to think I'm dumb :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<xerxas> StevenK,  I think I start to understand much stuff 
<jonh_wendell> fernando, take a look: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy
<xerxas> just when you learnt something, you use it once but it doesn't apply for the next package 
<xerxas> sometimes some python specific stuff, sometime some mono specific stuff 
<jonh_wendell> that's why i said it's better to develop than to package :)
<xerxas> jonh_wendell,  I do agree with you but I do really suck at coding
<fernando> jonh_wendell: thanks
<\sh> hmmm...what was the rule to deal with icedove/iceweasel build-deps in debian and ubuntu?
<fbond> crimsun: ping
<fbond> what compat for feisty?
<fbond> err, compat is 5; Standards-Version is 3.7.2 ? (feisty)
<slomo> fbond: standards-version is correct, compat whatever you want it to be... <= 3 is deprecated afaik, 4 and 5 are fine
<shawarma> Rock'n'roll! I just got my first accept mail!
<zul> congrats
<shawarma> zul: thanks!
<sivang> congrets shawarma 
<dholbach> shawarma: ROCK ON
<shawarma> dholbach: Yeah! I could definitely get used to this. :-)
<dholbach> that's good to hear :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<crimsun> shouldn't the new MOTU join ubuntu-universe-sponsors? :)
<crimsun> fbond: get it resolved?
<dholbach> crimsun: good idea
<dholbach> didn't we have a MOTU/OnceYou'veJoined or something? :)
<zul> and does it include 30 whacks with a wet noodle? :)
<fbond> crimsun, Re: usbfs, I spoke with Keybuk
<fbond> He found that the problem is not related to usbfs, but that my udev rules were inappropriate for Edgy...
<crimsun> ah, I see the bug report
<shawarma> crimsun: Good point. I just applied.
<crimsun> shawarma: excellent!
<fbond> I will be uploading a version of midisport-firmware to revu for feisty; this will have new rules appropriate for that dist.
<crimsun> fbond: great!
<fbond> Just checking it in pbuilder right now...
<jikanter> What are the advantages to using schroot over pbuilder.  Is one really significantly better than the other?
<jikanter> s/./?/
* proppy hugs dholbach
<crimsun> instead of sbuild?
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<proppy> dholbach: i've worked a bit on unittest++, move all the autotools stuff to a .patch
<proppy> moved
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> if you drop me another mail, I'll have another look later on
<proppy> dholbach: but i still call autoreconf
<dholbach> oh, why?
<proppy> dholbach: so the .patch can contains only configure.ac and Makefile.am
<proppy> dholbach: and not the generated file
<crimsun> yeah, we love auto* spew in the diff.gz :-)
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> I usually have two patches then
<proppy> dholbach: i fill weird to put generated file (i.e, no source), in a patch
<fbond> crimsun, midisport-firmware uploaded, give it a minute, then maybe you can look it over?
<dholbach> one for the configure.ac/Makefile.am and one for the changes in generated files
<fbond> I have to go put winter tires on my car, be back...
<crimsun> fbond: I'm severely backlogged on revu (and generally Ubuntu stuff); will queue it for later
<dholbach> proppy: half of the gnome packages do that
<dholbach> proppy: launchpad integration for example needs a change in configure.ac - that change will stay there even if there's a new upstream release
<proppy> dholbach: i don't get it, there is no change in the generated file, i mean they're generated by autoconf
<dholbach> but the autoconf call will have to be updated every now and then
<fbond> crimsun, ok; do remember that it did have approval for edgy, but didn't get uploaded.  It's already been looked at several times over.
<dholbach> proppy: I'd personally prefer to not run the autotools on the buildd but keep things nice and easy and do it on my box
<proppy> dholbach: do you remember of a source package pointer ?
<dholbach> source package pointer?
<crimsun> fbond: if it has been approved, it hardly needs to block on me; just ask someone to upload it
<fbond> crimsun, ok, thanks
<proppy> dholbach: "half of the gnome packages do that"
<crimsun> I need to train an alsa army or something
<dholbach> proppy: gcalctool should be a good example of that
<fbond> if anyone caught that, please have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3063
<fbond> gotta run, BBL
<proppy> dholbach: thanks a lot !
* proppy hugs dholbach
<dholbach> proppy: de rien
<proppy> dholbach: :)
<dholbach> crimsun gives alsa classes!
<proppy> dholbach: oh ok i get it
<proppy> dholbach: you mean not only a package should be able to reconstruct the software from scratch
<proppy> dholbach: it should also achieve this task as smooth as possible
<proppy> right ?
<Gloubiboulga> lfittl: hello, have you uploaded the picard package on REVU? it's a merge, so one ack is enough
<dholbach> proppy: there was a brief article about that somewhere
<proppy> dholbach: danke scheun
<dholbach> hehe
<dholbach> hmhmhm, not sure I find it
<proppy> np
<proppy> dholbach: remember there is no autotools at all in the upstream
<proppy> dholbach: if i send the patch to the upstream, i should not send the generated file i guess
<dholbach> probably not
<proppy> dholbach: but the .ac and .am
<dholbach> if you can tell them that they should use       make dist    to roll a release tarball they're probably going to be happy :)
<proppy> dholbach: they are windows guy, i guess they're generating release with right click add to zip :(
<dholbach> urg :/
<dholbach> but how do they build it in windows?
<proppy> vcproj
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> ok
<proppy> they is a Makefile too, but i contributed a autotools patch
<proppy> there is
<dholbach> then they should have a release manager who's able to roll a release tarball that everybody is happy with
<proppy> maybe i should stick to the original Makefile
<proppy> and remove all the autotools bloat
<dholbach> if there's not chance of getting it accepted in upstream... :/
<dholbach> and if it means a lot of maintenance for you
<proppy> dunno, what generate the most of work
<proppy> the less i put in the package
<proppy> the less i have to maintain :)
<dholbach> i'll leave the decision up to you ;)
<proppy> dholbach: thanks for your thought :)
<proppy> btw it is a good learning exercice :)
<dholbach> you chose a good package to learn from :-)
<proppy> i wonder where do you (maintainers) keep the trunk of your packaging sources (i.e all the file in debian/*) ?
<proppy> revision control ?
<proppy> bzr ?
<crimsun> some of us use LP's bzr
<proppy> crimsun: do you put the upstream tarball unpacked with it, or just the debian dir ?
<crimsun> I normally dump all the source
<proppy> and you import/merge the new source, once there is a new version
<crimsun> correct
<proppy> do you usely contribute the debian .diff to the upstream ?
<crimsun> normally I push to BTS
<crimsun> (Debian BTS)
<proppy> crimsun: ok
<proppy> crimsun: so your change get into the debian package as well
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> sometimes it takes a little more poking
<proppy> but in the end your file never get in the original upstream cvs ?
<crimsun> they do
<proppy> oh ok
<crimsun> sometimes the changes are pushed through Debian BTS; sometimes directly from Ubuntu
<proppy> so you must provide the necessary Makefile patch, to remove debian dir from the dist tar.gz ?
<crimsun> are you asking about a specific tarball? Normally the orig.tar.gz doesn't contain a debian/
<proppy> you're right, if you don't mention debian dir in the Makefile.am, they never get to the tarball anymay, so you don't have to explicitly remove it
<proppy> my bad :)
<proppy> crimsun: so in a ideal world, the package source repository, could easily be a branch of the upstream source repository
<crimsun> proppy: hmm, that's almost a 'meta' question, and my strengths don't lie in VCS
<crimsun> proppy: I'm more accustomed to seeing things like Debian's svn, where just the packaging is in some VCS
<proppy> crimsun: thanks for your thoughts ! :)
* proppy hugs cassidy
<proppy> oups
* proppy hugs crimsun
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back :-)
<dholbach> I wonder when I'll be down to 300 desktop bug mails again
<zul> never!
<crimsun> d'oh, better disable my desktop-bugs auto-submitter
<crimsun> err
* dholbach slaps zul and crimsun :-)
<dholbach> thanks for the confidence, zul
<LaserJock> dholbach: they wouldn't be submitting bugs if they didn't have confidence that you were going to fix them ;-)
* crimsun submits more -science bugs
* dholbach slaps LaserJock too :-)
<LaserJock> crimsun: doh
<zul> dholbach: no problem :)
<fbond> imbrandon, you had looked at this package for edgy, maybe you'd like to take another peek for the Feisty version? -> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3690
<crimsun> fbond: the debian/{dirs,install} have leading '/' . Is that intentional?
<fbond> no; it should have little impact, however, I'm happy to fix it, of course
<fbond> crimsun, thanks for looking
<crimsun> fbond: (technically they're not supposed to be there :)
<crimsun> fbond: [see dh_installdirs(1)] 
<fbond> crimsun, ok I will upload a fixed version; any other issues that you can see?
<crimsun> sec, juggling a few dozen things
<crimsun> debian/postrm looks dangerous
<crimsun> --> rm -f /usr/share/usb/maudio/*.ihx
<crimsun> it would be much better to actually enumerate each .ihx file
<crimsun> in the chance that there's a user-installed /usr/share/usb/maudio/foo.ihx, that file would be removed, too, which is not what you want
<crimsun> debian/postinst needs to be fixed to exit properly if mktemp fails
<crimsun> (if you need an example, look at that portion of alsa-utils's debian/patches/20_alsaconf_safe_tmp.dpatch
<crimsun> )
<palski> Opinions please, is bug #67553 worth of SRU? Siege is not usable at all on edgy because of that bug.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67553 in siege "double free or corruption in siege" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67553
<crimsun> palski: yes, it's worth an SRU
<crimsun> the diff is trivial
<palski> ok, thanks
<crimsun> fbond: (hope you've been noting the above issues; here are more:)
<crimsun> fbond: debian/preinst uses ping to test, and that will fail for configurations where a firewall/gateway blocks icmp. I suggest testing for then using ``host www.google.com'' instead.
<crimsun> fbond: and finally, please use ATTRS{} in 42-midisport-firmware.rules.in as Scott noted in the last comment of #70968
<crimsun> fbond: please fix those issues, and resubmit
<crimsun> fbond: again, thanks for working on the packaging!
<fbond> crimsun, ok noted all comments, fixed version will be uploaded shortly
<fbond> thanks!
<proppy> yeah!
<crimsun> fbond: np
<crimsun> fbond: and to be technically correct, bind9-host would need to be added to debian/control:Depends
<crimsun> (sorry, should have caught that sooner)
<dholbach> LaserJock: the motu science team should probably subscribe to genius' bugs
<dholbach> (not that there are any, but oh well...) :)
* crimsun goes to file a dozen bugs on genius.
<bddebian> crimsun IS a genius! :-)
<crimsun> nope, but I tend to fixate on sound bugs
<crimsun> bddebian is one-third of the resident trinity in here
<fbond> crimsun, alright will upload in a sec, however:
<bddebian> crimsun: no way man :-(
<geser> I'm currently looking at ilohamail on MoM: new package revisions must be greater the current one?
<fbond> should the package pre-depend on wget | curl, bind9-host, etc ... since it uses them in preinst/postinst ?
<crimsun> isn't ilohamail one of the nasty versioned ones?
<crimsun> (I think that was one of mine, no?)
<geser> yes, it's one of yours and it a nasty versioning
<crimsun> fbond: I tend to use Pre-Depends -very- sparingly
<geser> ubuntu has -0rc3ubuntu1 and debian has -0rc3sid3 which is smaller
<fbond> yes, I understand it is to be avoided, however, if one happens to be installing wget & midisport-firmware simultaneously, will the download fail ?
<NetAdministrator> does anyone know why network interface priority was taken out of the network administration dialog on edgy?
<geser> fbond: IIRC you need Pre-Depends for preinst and can use Depends in postinsts
<fbond> geser, thanks
<fbond> crimsun, does that sound right to you?
<crimsun> fbond: yes
<fbond> so, bind9-host needs to be Pre-Depends ...
<geser> if you use it in your preinst
<geser> see http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps
<tsmithe> hi geser! how's the new motuship?
<HumanPrototype> how can i get involved with helping with ubuntu?
<tsmithe> loyd
<tsmithe> lots
<tsmithe> not loyd
<tsmithe> stupid fingers
<tsmithe> hang on there's a page
<tsmithe> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<HumanPrototype> tsmithe, thanks
<tsmithe> it's easiest if you find something you enjoy doing, and do it
<tsmithe> so, any direction i give could be more likely than not inappropriate
<siretart> HumanPrototype: http://www.ubuntu.com/developers. follow the links, they should you getting started
<siretart> should help you, even
* tsmithe really wants his package revu'd :)
<HumanPrototype> siretart, thanks
<tsmithe> oh; and i guess i'm a motu enthusiast (and i really need to learn the packaging ropes...); but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Enthusiasts is not a page
<geser> crimsun: is it ok if I look at the ilohamail merge?
<crimsun> geser: absolutely
<Sp4rKy> siretart: i've some problem with setup of revu
<geser> crimsun: it looks like a sync candidate but can't because of the version. should it be fake sync as -0rc3ubuntu2 and mentioning it in the changelog? or is there a better solution?
<crimsun> geser: you'll have to fakesync
<geser> as -0rc3ubuntu2?
<crimsun> geser: same situation as NMUs for native packages
<Sp4rKy> siretart: can you take a look at http://revu.dunnewind.net/
<crimsun> geser: 0.8.14-0rc3ubuntu2, yes
<Sp4rKy> siretart: whereas the mod_python is installed, and i've follow the README of revu
<fbond> crimsun, midisport-firmware is uploading.  thanks again for your help.
<siretart> Sp4rKy: it looks to me like a problem in your mod-python setup
<crimsun> fbond: np
<Sp4rKy> siretart: i've just apt-get install libapache2-mod_python
<siretart> Sp4rKy: I'm happy to help you with that next week, okay?
<siretart> Sp4rKy: anyway, what do you intend to do with the revu1 code?
<Sp4rKy> siretart: to install it on my own server
<Sp4rKy> siretart: should i take the revu2 ?
<siretart> Sp4rKy: revu1 was rather a proof on concept, and has a really horrible code base. the code for revu2 is unfinished and nowehere usable, but we want to concentrate on that to implement the REVU2 spec
<Sp4rKy> k
<LaserJock> tsmithe: we don't really use the term MOTU Enthusiast
<tsmithe> that's a silly link then
<LaserJock> tsmithe: and any references will probably be going away
<tsmithe> right on
<LaserJock> you're a MOTU Hopeful ;-)
<tsmithe> yay!
<tsmithe> but i really know very little
<tsmithe> except what i've done with asoundconf-gtk
<LaserJock> but you're learning, that's the point
* tsmithe guesses
<tsmithe> no
<tsmithe> that didn't come out right
<tsmithe> i guess
<lfittl> Gloubiboulga: no I haven't uploaded it, but I can do that now if you want
<lfittl> (the picard package on REVU)
<crimsun> I am so confused.
<LaserJock> yikes
<crimsun> "I have no sound in Feisty 7.04 ... Anyway - my sound works fine with the headphones"
<crimsun> ?!@
<LaserJock> hmmm
<Gloubiboulga> lfittl: that'd be nice :)
<zul> crimsun: i think someone else is confused
<LaserJock> crimsun: it makes perfect sense to me :-)
<crimsun> LaserJock: I'm happy to assign 74677 to you :-)
<LaserJock> crimsun: ummmmmm, no
<crimsun> aww c'mon, everyone's doing it
<LaserJock> heh
<tsmithe> i'm sure someone wants to review my package ;)
<LaserJock> maybe when I get my current REVU todo list done ;-)
<tsmithe> yay!
<tsmithe> whenever's great
<LaserJock> tsmithe: what's the URL?
<tsmithe> ah corse
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3669
<tsmithe> thanks :)
<LaserJock> ok, well I'll put it on my list
<LaserJock> but it could take some time as I have a bunch of work
<tsmithe> as do we all
<HumanPrototype> is the stuff in the ubuntu server guide at help.ubuntu.com fixed or is it editable like the wiki?
<HumanPrototype> also who is responsible for the jabber package?
<crimsun> HumanPrototype: MOTU.
<LaserJock> HumanPrototype: it's fixed, but you can file a bug report if there's a problem (or talk to #ubuntu-doc)
<LaserJock> tag-teamed that one
* LaserJock high-fives crimsun 
<crimsun> HumanPrototype: meaning, Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu at lists dot ubuntu dot com>
<HumanPrototype> if it helps its in universe/net
<crimsun> (I just stated who's responsible.)
<fbond> crimsun, one last look, maybe? -> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3692
<fbond> sorry to pester; it's been on my TODO for too long
<fbond> of course, if anyone else wants to take a peak, he or she is welcome to do so
<superm1_> hey guys is there a way to make pbuilder not clean up after itself?  I am having a package fail on building in my pbuilder, but can't seem to debug the exact problem since pbuilder deletes everything when its done
<superm1_> unless i'm missing it, i'm not seeing it in the man page
<mr_pouit> you can use "pbuilder login" and build it manually
<superm1_> so once i'm in the chroot, just dpkg-buildpackage?
<mr_pouit> yes (or debuild), but I am not sure it automatically installs dependencies :/
<superm1_> oh that could be ugly..... :)
<superm1_> is there an easy way to have debuild or dpkg-buildpackage read the debian/control to figure out the build deps from my package though? i'm not sure what it actually does to resolve these during pbuilding
<engla> does the upstream tarball and our package_v.orig.tar.gz have to be bit-identical? I mean even if the files are exactly the same the mtime is different for some reason
<engla> but it should be right
<engla> superm1_: I'm not sure, why not do that work yourself?
<engla> relating to my Q above: the debdiff only contains files in debian/, that's the thing right
<fdoving> superm1: you can run '/usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends' if you have pbuilder installed. that will read debian/control to find build-deps.. 
<geser> engla: do you mean diff.gz?
<engla> yeah, but I was mainly talking about the orig tarball
<engla> it's not bit-perfect identical with the upstream one
<engla> but the files should be
<engla> as I said, the mtimes differ
<engla> now, is that a problem? I don't know
<geser> but the md5sums are identical of both tarballs?
<engla> I don't think they are
<engla> the md5sums differ but if I unpack them, recursive diff says they are identical
<fdoving> engla: md5 should match if possible.
<fdoving> engla: does upstream provide a .tar.gz ? if that's the case, simply rename it to *orig.tar.gz
<fdoving> engla: if they supply .bz2 you can bunzip2 and gzip -9 the .tar
<engla> I'm upstream. But I really don't care. I think it's just hte config file that is cleaned and regenerated exactly the same
<engla> I don't get why the orig file is touched by debuild anyway, so I'll leave it as it is.. after all, the content is identical
<superm1_> thanks fdoving 
<fdoving> engla: the idea is that you include a debian/watch file, with information (man uscan) on how uscan can fetch your upstream released sources.
<fdoving> engla: if you do that, you can maintain the debian/ directory in svn or bzr or any other rcs and easily fetch the upstream source directly.
<joejaxx> where are the logs from ubuntu-meeting kept?
<joejaxx> nevermind found them
<T`> hi.. i want to repackage my own deb package from new sources for verve-plugin... is there some tutorial on how to do this? and is there a .spec equivalent for .deb?
<superm1_> chttp://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<superm1_> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<superm1_> T`, ^
<jorgp> I have edgy installed, trying to backport something to dapper
<jorgp> I have a pbuilder of the dapper
<jorgp> but when I try to build the app, I get configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables from the configure file
<jorgp> what am I missing
<phanatic> any MOTUs around for a review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3554
<ajmitch> phanatic: I see it's a mono app now?
<ajmitch> can you please follow the CLI policy on build-depends, you don't need things like gtk-sharp2
<ajmitch> since I doubt you need to drag in everything from gtk#
<phanatic> ajmitch: pretty much stuff is needed (almost everything), but i'll try to sort them out. do you have a recent CLI policy link at hand maybe?
<ajmitch> also, what's arch-dependent about this package?
<slomo> phanatic: http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
<phanatic> slomo: thanks
<ajmitch> thanks slomo
<phanatic> what's te difference between managed and native code? and how could i find out which one has the given app?
<slomo> phanatic: managed is everything compiled to CIL bytecode, native everything compiled to your machine's "bytecode"
<jorgp> anyone help me with my pbuilder problem?
<slomo> phanatic: and as your package only consists from c# sources it's most likely arch independend and completely managed
<phanatic> slomo: thanks a lot!
<guibis> Hi slomo
<slomo> hi guibis 
<guibis> i write to you a mail slomo.
<guibis> at your four mail adres writing in LP ( sorry for the flood).
<guibis> :/
<guibis> it's about packaging.
<slomo> ok ;)
<guibis> because i try to package .net ...
<guibis> and it's quite hard for me.
<guibis> you can ansewer now at this chan, or write back to me a mail.
<guibis> no problem :-)
<slomo> guibis: probably via mail tomorrow :) i wanted to go to bed in a few minutes
<slomo> but what exactly do you want to package?
<guibis> ok no problem
<guibis> exactly i want to package this http://okapi.sourceforge.net/Release/Utilities/Help/dnllistedit.htm
<guibis> the dnl soft
<guibis> i need this program in order to package sheepshaver  (SheepShaver is a MacOS run-time environment for BeOS and Linux)
<phanatic> ajmitch: i did some tests, and the package only compiles with build-dep gnome-sharp2
<ajmitch> then add the appropriate packages that gnome-sharp2 depends on 
<ajmitch> they should only be the -cil packages you need
<phanatic> ajmitch: the funny thing is that if i add the cil packages, it won't build
<slomo> phanatic: that's impossible as gnome-sharp2 is only a metapackage and has no real content
<phanatic> slomo: yes, sorry... false alarm. missed one dependency
<guibis> slomo: i go to my bed sooner as you see you :-) !
<vil> hi, I am fresh new MOTU (maybe someone noticed :)
<vil> I would like to ask about any uploading policy
<LaserJock> what do you need?
<vil> i have a package waiting quite some time already and would like to put it in feisty
<vil> until now, I always asked doko to do the upload
<vil> can i now just go ahead and do dput?
<phanatic> ajmitch: do i need to care about this: "E: sysinfo source: build-depends-indep-should-be-build-depends debhelper"?
<phanatic> (lintian error)
<LaserJock> vil: is this a new package or a patch or a merge or ...?
<shawarma> I'm working on merging gimp-dcraw. We had a new upstream version before Debian, but Debian did their own package now and the orig.tar.gz don't match. What to do?
<LaserJock> shawarma: same version of upstream?
<shawarma> LaserJock: Yup.
<LaserJock> how are the 2 .orig.tar.gz's different?
<shawarma> LaserJock: Beats me.
<phanatic> any ideas about the above? i should fix lintian errors, right?
<shawarma> different size and hence md5sum.
<LaserJock> shawarma: can you diff them?
<vil> LaserJock: new upstream + some additional patches, so I guess ... patch
<LaserJock> phanatic: what does it have for Build-Depends?
<shawarma> LaserJock: I suppose.
<LaserJock> vil: but not a merge?
<LaserJock> shawarma: I just wondered
<LaserJock> they really shouldn't be different
<phanatic> LaserJock: according to the cli policy, i moved all build-deps to Build-Depends-Indep, so currently there is nothing under Build-Depends
<vil> LaserJock: no, it's not in Debian at all
<mr_pouit> phanatic: I think debhelper should stay in Build-Depends
<LaserJock> phanatic: does the clean rule have a dh_* ?
<LaserJock> if so then debhelper should be in Build-Depends
<phanatic> LaserJock: it has. then i'll move it to Build-Depends
<phanatic> thank you guys for the help
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-07
<LaserJock> anything in the clean rule needs to be in Build-Depends
<phanatic> that's right... i was just a bit confused because of the cli policy
<shawarma> LaserJock: It appears they're actually identical, only the metadata differs.
<jorgp> I found my issue
<LaserJock> shawarma: metadata?
<shawarma> LaserJock: time of compression, for instance.
<shawarma> LaserJock: it's stored in the gzip header.
<LaserJock> ah
<shawarma> LaserJock: Upstream is just one .c file.
<LaserJock> heh
<shawarma> LaserJock: ..so of course they're going to differ. Go figure.
<LaserJock> so they are the same versions?
<shawarma> LaserJock: totally
<LaserJock> does the upstream make new releases very often or is it dead
<shawarma> LaserJock: Will a sync just overwrite our .orig.tar.gz and will that break anything?
<shawarma> LaserJock: No idea.
<shawarma> LaserJock: I think upstream is alive.
<LaserJock> we could just not sync until the next upstream
<shawarma> LaserJock: Oh. Might be a while though.
<shawarma> LaserJock: I think he only does his magic when he implements new RAW formats into the library.
<shawarma> LaserJock: So until then I'll just merge, shall I?
<LaserJock> shawarma: look at -devel
<shawarma> Or rather just leave it alone..
<phanatic> could anyone have a look at this package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3694 ? thanks...
<vil> LaserJock: no, it's not in Debian at all, so no merge
<LaserJock> shawarma: so you know what to do now?
<LaserJock> vil: ok, then I guess you just upload. Just make sure it's going to feisty
<shawarma> LaserJock: Think so. 
<vil> LaserJock: ok, thanks
<shawarma> LaserJock: Debian is 1.27-2. I'll create 1.27-2ubuntu0build1 ? ubuntu0 to signify that nothing was changed. The changelog would of course reflect this. 
<LaserJock> I think 1.27-2build1
<LaserJock> but that's why I asked cjwatson about Feisty+1
<LaserJock> shawarma: ok, make it 1.27-2build1
<shawarma> LaserJock: Right. I wasn't aware that 'build' or 'ubuntu' in the version string actually meant anything.
<shawarma> LaserJock: It's makes good sense, though.
<LaserJock> yeah, build is ignored in the autosync
<shawarma> Clever.
<LaserJock> that's why we use it to "fakesync"
<LaserJock> because we know it'll get synced next time
<LaserJock> or at least that's the idea
<shawarma> Alright. Thanks for your help!
<T`> is there anyway to repack files into a deb file after i extract it with ar?
<T`> i made a few changes in the control/data tarballs
<shawarma> T`: ar can pack files.
<T`> shawarma, but xxd shows there is some special header for .deb files.. does that matter?
<shawarma> T`: I seriously doubt it.
<T`> shawarma, anyway to run dpkg -i as a test-run?
<shawarma> T`: You could try? :-)
<T`> ah.. dpkg-split does what i want
<shawarma> T`: Maybe --no-act
<T`> hmm guess not..
<shawarma> T`: Otherwise dpkg-deb -b is probably the best solution.
<shawarma> T`: Actually, in any case 'dpkg-deb -b' is probably the best solution.
<T`> i'm trying to get to use it.. i have three files in my folder.. control.tar.gz, data.tar.gz and debian-binary
<T`> tmp $ dpkg-deb -b . tmp.deb
<T`> dpkg-deb: building package `xfce4-verve-plugin' in `tmp.deb'.
<T`> tar: -: file name read contains nul character
<T`> any idea why that happens?
<shawarma> T`: It's all right.
<shawarma> T`: That's what's supposed to happen.
<T`> oh
<shawarma> T`: Assuming you unpackged control.tar.gz to DEBIAN ?
<T`> yup i did
<shawarma> T`: That's it then.
<shawarma> T`: What kind of package is this anyway?
<T`> xfce4-verve-plugin
<T`> brb on phone
<shawarma> T`: Any particular reason why you're patching it this way instead of patching the source? (Just answer when you're off the phone again. No rush)
* ajmitch returns
<ajmitch> phanatic: note that the CLI policy stated that you must keep debhelper in build-depends:
<T`> shawarma, i dont know how to patch the source and build a deb package.. i tired for last 3hrs and got no where
<T`> shawarma, so i just built the sources from the latest version.. and planning on just updating the deb archive with proper binaries
<T`> shawarma, if u have some better proposals i can try it out..
<shawarma> T`: Oh, it's actually pretty easy.
<shawarma> T`: You do 'apt-get source xfce4-verve-plugin'
<rmjb> ajmitch: any experience packaging a driver?
<rmjb> that uses firmware?
<rmjb> looking for a couple pointers
<shawarma> T`: That fetches the source. Then go into the source directory, mess around, add an entry to debian/changelog, run dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -rfakeroot -b, and that's it.
<ajmitch> rmjb: nope
<T`> ok i have 3 files..
<T`> and a directory with source from old version..
* rmjb wonders if he bit off more than he can chew
<shawarma> T`: Are we talking minor patches or a new upstream version?
<T`> shawarma, but the version number changed from 0.2.0 to 0.3.4
<T`> sharms, can i somehow make that happen?
<T`> i want to make this pkg for myself.. not for ubuntu repo or anything..
<shawarma> T`: Oh, I just thought we were talking about minor patches.
<T`> nop :(
<phanatic> ajmitch: sorry, you're right...
<shawarma> T`: Trust me: When you get the hang of it, doing it the right way is MUCH easier.
<T`> shawarma, if you wanna help me out a bit, i can try the process again.. i followed verbatic what ubuntu packaging help had about debuild and stuff
<phanatic> ajmitch: could you review the package?
<T`> it didn't work :(
<shawarma> T`: LaserJock wrote some documentation on getting started on packaging stuff. That would probably be a good starting point.
<T`> s/verbatic/verbatim
<shawarma> T`: hey, wait a minute..
<rmjb> !packaging guide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<T`> yup thats the one i followed..
<ajmitch> phanatic: I've given a few tips but I don't have time to sit & do a proper review right now
<ajmitch> I'll try & add it to my todo list
<shawarma> T`: Are you by any chance running Feisty?
<phanatic> ajmitch: thanks for the tips, and i hope you get to the package once...
<shawarma> T`: If you are, you're in luck. 0.3.4 of xfce4-verve-plugin was just packaged today. It should hit the archives any minute now. :-)
<shawarma> T`: If not, you're also in luck. :-) You can just fetch the source from Feisty and build it. Very easy stuff.
<T`> shawarma, oh really!
<T`> shawarma, where can i get it from?
<T`> i'm on edgy
<shawarma> T`: Alright. Open your sources.list and add a deb-src line with 'feisty' instead of 'edgy'. Just the deb-src!
<T`> ah right.. ok 
<T`> shawarma, i will first see what the diffs look like between the original release and their package
<shawarma> T`: Then: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -b source xfce4-verve-plugin
<shawarma> T`: You'll see when you fetch the package, actually. It's all contained in a diff.gz file.
<T`> yup that will help me i guess... in future..
<T`> actually i'll try to build it myself usign those files...
<shawarma> T`: Excellent. Have fun and don't hesitate to ask again.
<shawarma> T`: You'll be hooked in no time and then you can help out here as well. :-)
<T`> sure :)
<T`> Failed to fetch http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xfce4-verve-plugin/xfce4-verve-plugin_0.3.4-0ubuntu1.dsc  404 Not Found
<T`> arg.. which mirror are you looking on?
<shawarma> T`: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-verve-plugin/0.3.4-0ubuntu1  <--- There's links at the bottom.
<T`> .orig.tar.gz is guaranteed to be untouched form?
<T`> i.e. the release tarball from developer?
<holycow> hey guys
<holycow> i'm looking to find out if a particular set of nforce open source drivers have been backported for dapper or whether or not there is a plan to do so
<holycow> i would be willing to sponsor that if anyone is interested
<shawarma> T`: half an hour ago I would have said yes.
<T`> haha why ?
<shawarma> T`: Since then I've seen two packages where it's not the case, but in general they should be the same.
<T`> verve $ diff -ur verve-plugin-0.3.4/ tmp/verve-plugin-0.3.4
<T`> verve $ 
<shawarma> T`: Beats me. Careless developers, I suppose.
<holycow> the chipset that i cant find support for under dapper right now is NF6100-405 Chipset
<T`> yup.. this one isn't modded
<holycow> on this mobo: http://www.asrock.com/product/AM2NF6G-VSTA.htm
<shawarma> T`: It pisses me off, though.
<T`> +include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/xfce.mk
<T`> what does this mean? 
<T`> i dont think i have that file
<shawarma> T`: It means it add that particular line to debian/rules.
<holycow> oh and pls let me know if i am asking in the right channel
<holycow> :) thanks!
<T`> and i dont see it as part of the patch
<shawarma> T`: It includes a makefile from something called cdbs.
<T`> shawarma, yea, but where is it coming from
<T`> hmm ic
<shawarma> T`: You'll notice it build-depends on cdbs which is another package that has extravagant makefiles for a lot of stuff.
<T`> so shouldn't this makefile be shipped as part of the diff?
<holycow> wrong tab
<holycow> -_-
<T`> shawarma, aah so i need that cdbs before i can compile this package!
<shawarma> T`: No. the build-depends makes sure that it's around when you want to build the package.
<T`> right, but i'm on edgy :p
<shawarma> T`: Yes. Try: apt-get build-dep xfce4-verve-plugin
<shawarma> T`: No problem.
<fbond> midisport-firmware needs just a glance before it's ready to go ... anyone want to revu it real quick?
<shawarma> T`: Same command. Try it.
<T`> aah.. new package.. cdbs..
<shawarma> T`: Indeed. While you're add it, you'll want fakeroot as well.
<shawarma> T`: s/add/at/
<T`> yup i got all those as part of my previous trial
<T`> but this means to make my own deb pkg.. i need this cdbs make file
<T`> i cant make a package for like myXYZprog for ex..
<shawarma> T`: Huh?
<T`> how to make debian packages for apps which dont have this make file from cdbs?
<T`> wow.. he made almost no changes... just some adds to Build-depends
<T`> i could have just copied the entire debian/* from older package to my new sources and gotten it to compile i gues.. grr
<shawarma> T`: Heh.. Maybe.
<LaserJock> \o/ beat my first level of wesnoth ;-)
<T`> how does it know where the installed apps are and stuff?
<bddebian> w00t LaserJock :)
<T`> does it do a 'make install' in fakeroot ?
<holycow> heh
<holycow> fun game
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you should be packaging :)
<fbond> is wesnoth apt-get'able ?
<shawarma> T`: It installs it into a temporary directory and puts that into the data.tar.gz.. Kind o.f
<bddebian> Yeah LaserJock get to work..
<shawarma> fbond: Sure.
* bddebian hides
<fbond> shawarma, good, need something bad for me that is not smoking cigarettes.
<ajmitch> bddebian: you too
<shawarma> LaserJock: I found another package with a tainted .orig.tar.gz. Bastards...
<LaserJock> ajmitch: of course I should be, just wanted to try it out
<bddebian> ajmitch: I don't do anything :-)
<shawarma> fbond: You could start doing drugs. It all the rage these days.
<fbond> but seriously, LaserJock, you could be revu'ing midisport-firmware.
<ajmitch> bddebian: you want me to pick up some of your merges then?
<fbond> hardware support is a goal for feisty :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Sure, you can have them all :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: I don't want to step on your toes or anything :)
<shawarma> bddebian: I can take a few off your hands as well.
<fbond> shawarma, I tried that once.  I need something bad for me that is not dehabilitating.
<shawarma> fbond: Oh, right.
<ajmitch> shawarma: as long as it's coordinated with others
<TheMuso> You know, we really should make some sort of list of people who won't be able to contribute to a merge cycle before the cycle starts, so new people/other motus know who they can pick up merges from.
<fbond> You can't make .debs on drugs :)
<fbond> (or can you ... :)
<joejaxx> oh shoot what happens if a computer crashes during an upgrade ?
<shawarma> fbond: You can make them while you're drunk.
<fbond> granted
<joejaxx> a ubuntu upgrade that is
<fbond> for a limited time only
<joejaxx> like from breezy to dapper
<shawarma> joejaxx: A kitten dies.
<bddebian> Do I have that many left?  I sent a lot of my "fixes" upstream in the Dapper cycle
<fbond> kittens don't seem to be good for much except dying. That's the only thing they do that people talk about.
<bddebian> Plus, I don't really do much ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: you have a few
<T`>  fakeroot debian/rules clean
<T`> /usr/bin/fakeroot: 152: debian/rules: Permission denied
<T`> shawarma, any idea why thats happening?
<shawarma> T`: chmod +x
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I took a few of them previously, as bddebian said he wouldn't be able to help for a while.
<fbond> chmod a+x debian/rules
<T`> oh
<shawarma> T`: Did you apply the diff manually?
<T`> yup
<ajmitch> bddebian: maybe 20 or so still on the list
<T`> it can be done automatically?
<bddebian> Eeks, I should get to work ;-P
<shawarma> T`: That's why. dpkg-source -x does a chmod +x debian/rules for you.
<T`> so after i apt-get sources and untar the orig.tar.gz.. i just do dpkg-source -x in the extracted folder?
<fbond> oh jeez.  I can apt-get install wesnoth, but if I want to enjoy it, I have to install recommends, too.
<bddebian> Egads, Holotz Castle is back again..
<shawarma> T`: No, fetch the .dsc, diff.gz, and orig.tar.gz. Then do dpkg-source -x file.dsc
<T`> ah
<T`> ls
<T`> oops.. ok cool deb is made and works :)
<T`> thanks sharms 
<T`> shawarma*
<shawarma> shawarma: Any time.
<fbond> shawarma recommends drugs and then talks to himself ... hmm.
<zul> heloo
<ajmitch> heloo zul
* fbond wonders if shawarma is free now, and could take a look at midisport-firmware :)
<T`> oh no.. this package doesn't include the scritps
<T`> i think i should file a bug
<fbond> the saga continues
<shawarma> fbond: I do that all the time. 
<shawarma> fbond: write to myself that is. Not recommend drugs.
* fbond /joins addicts-anonymous
<fbond> hmm.  guess I'm the only one.  channel was empty
<bddebian> Hmm, maybe copying my edgy pbuild environment to a feisty one wasn't such a good idea.. :)
<LaserJock> why?
<geser> ajmitch: hello, what are the requirements to join u-u-s?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: being able to sponsor ;-)
<ajmitch> geser: you've joined the team?
<LaserJock> or rather geser 
<T`> shawarma, can i somehow stop and look at the built source code when i do dpkg-source? i want to see if verve-focus is made or not..
<geser> not yet therefore I ask
<ajmitch> geser: then if you're confident of reviewing changes, join it
* fbond smells fresh motu blood
<shawarma> T`: If you ran dpkg-buildpackage -b, the built source is still around.
* fbond should shutup before I get banned
<geser> after creating enough debdiffs I should be able to review some of them :)
<ajmitch> geser: I'd hope so
* bddebian still can't
<T`> shawarma, ah right.. i do see the built binary but its not included in the debian package
<fbond> T`, maybe you need debian/install
<T`> fbond, can i smoehow mimic the method dpkg uses to create the data.tgz?
<fbond> hmm.  I'm out of the loop.  What is data.tgz?
<T`> data.tar.gz in .deb
<T`> the file with the file/dir structure of stuff to be installed..
<fbond> I wouldn't worry about that.  I've made many .debs and have never touched a data.tgz ...
<T`> fbond, oh i know.. but just curious why this isn't getting included
<geser> fbond: a deb is ab ar archive consisting of a control.tar.gz (postinst, etc.) and data.tar.gz (the package contents)
<T`> i am wondering if make install is broken
<fbond> After you build the .deb, there should be the same directory structure in a subdir of the debian dir.
<ajmitch> geser: and most people should never need to worry about that
<T`> so i want to test by doing a make install but i would like the files to end up in some local dir
<geser> ajmitch: true
<fbond> yeah, I think I manually unpacked a .deb only once over the last ~10 years
<shawarma> T`: What's the name of the binary?
<T`> verve-focus
<T`> its in scripts/ 
<shawarma> T`: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=xfce4-verve-plugin&version=feisty&arch=i386
<shawarma> T`: That's the contents of the official build.
<T`> yea .. see.. its messed up :p
<T`> after dpkg-buildpackage, i see it in scripts/
<shawarma> T`: It's not usr/lib/xfce4-verve-plugin/xfce4/panel-plugins/xfce4-verve-plugin ?
<T`> shawarma, nop.. thats the plugin
<T`> there is another script which will let you get focus to the plugin when you run it
<shawarma> T`: Oh, ok.
<T`> that way you can setup a keyboard shortcut
<shawarma> T`: Well, you probably just need to add it to the install file.
<shawarma> T`: You could totally fix your first ubuntu bug. :-)
<T`> but there is no debian/install
<T`> atleast in this diff..
<shawarma> T`: No, it probably guesses.
<T`> hmm
<shawarma> T`: ...You can just add a debian/xfce4-verve-plugin.install
<T`> can you explain what its guessing please?
<T`> or point me to the .install concept and what ti does..
<shawarma> T`: man dh_install
<T`> verve-plugin-0.3.4 $ DESTDIR=$PWD/tmp make install
<T`> ok i did that and looked in tmp
<T`> there is a /usr/bin/verve-focus
<shawarma> T`: This might help: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<T`> there is another reason why the official release doean't have this
<T`> its only installed if you have DBUS libs while compiling
<T`> it could be possible the author doesn't have dbus-glib and dbus-1
<shawarma> T`: Nah. You can see the build logs here: http://librarian.launchpad.net/5273261/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.xfce4-verve-plugin_0.3.4-0ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<shawarma> T`: verve-focus is there.
<T`> can i see the contents of a built .deb ?
<shawarma> dpkg --contents file.deb
<shawarma> or -c, maybe
<geser> dpkg-deb -c file.deb
<geser> and dpkg-deb -I file.deb for the package description
<T`> ok this is very strange
<T`> i did dpkg-buildpackage and when it came to the make-install part
<T`> i Ctrl+Z'ed and looked if verve-focus is in the right place
<T`> /home/total/stuff/installs/verve/verve-plugin-0.3.4/debian/xfce4-verve-plugin//usr/bin/verve-focus
<T`> it is moved into the temporary package place.. along with other plugins..
<T`> so only during packaging /usr/bin is lost!
<T`> looks like it just doesn't blindly pack the entire debian/xfce4-verve-plugin.. but chooses which folders to pick from it right?
<T`> ooh!!!!
<T`> wtf!!
<T`> if test -x /usr/bin/dh_desktop; then dh_desktop -pxfce4-verve-plugin ; fi
<T`> if test -x /usr/bin/dh_iconcache; then dh_iconcache -pxfce4-verve-plugin ; fi
<T`> rm -rf debian/xfce4-verve-plugin/usr/bin
<T`> lol.. why does it rm -rf bin !!
<T`> you can also see it in the logs you posted shawarma ... 
<holycow> how about i rephrase my question
<shawarma> T`: You're right.
<holycow> would someone be able to repackage a kernel greater than 2.6.18 for dapper?
<shawarma> T`: It's in the debian/rules
<shawarma> T`: It definitely looks intentional.
<holycow> i would be willing to pay for that of course
<T`> ah!
<T`> the post-install rm
<holycow> would be nice to get dapper to support the 405 nforce chipset
<T`> may be the author wants to make it a seperate package?
<shawarma> T`: Exactly. cdbs allows you to insert commands at various points in the build process.
<shawarma> T`: No, there's other means for that.
<rmjb> holycow: that's a rather hefty backport, why not just use edgy?
<T`> shawarma, hmm then i dont see why author is removing this.. i'll file a bug and ask
<T`> shawarma, thanks for the input
<shawarma> T`: You can ask him. It's Gloubiboulga.
<shawarma> Gloubiboulga: around?
<T`> ooh
<T`> Gloubiboulga, ping
<shawarma> Nah, he seems to be away. 
<T`> hehe yea.. dont worry.. i'll hunt him down later
<holycow> rmjb, i want to but i don't seee a kernel greater than 2.6.18 in any repo ... 
<holycow> let me check again
<T`> for now i removed that rm line and made my deb pkg with everything :)
<T`> woohoo. first .deb pkg made!
<shawarma> T`: Congrats!
<T`> haha.. thanks
<holycow> yeah
<shawarma> Well, I'm off to bed. It's almost 2:30 AM..
<T`> nite shawarma !
<ajmitch> night shawarma 
<holycow> nforce 405 is not properly supported on anything than 2.6.18 accoding to posts online
<shawarma> G'night, guys!
<bddebian> Gnight shawarma
<rmjb> g'night
<bddebian> Oh gads, I know if I create my feisty pbuilder I am going to get sucked in...
<LaserJock> do it!
<LaserJock> do it!
<bddebian> Noooo
<holycow> rmjb, would it be easier to have the nforce open source drivers backported to dapper then in your estimation?
<rmjb> you'd have to ask the backporters, try jdong
<holycow> ah okay
<holycow> danke
<bluefoxicy> feisty gaim is busted
<bluefoxicy> guifications says you have gaim-gtk but gtk is needed for guifications
<bluefoxicy> same for like half the other plug-ins
<ajmitch> so file a bug
<holycow> whois jdong
<holycow> bah sorry
<bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  I cherry picked gaim from feisty
<bluefoxicy> I'm running edgy with 2.6.19 and a new gaim
<bluefoxicy> is it possible I broke this myself, or is it really ok to go ahead with a bug
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> I don't know the package, so I don't know what you've broken
<bluefoxicy> ah o.o you don't use gaim
<ajmitch> I use it, but I don't care about its packaging one bit
<ajmitch> as long as it's on the desktop & works
* bluefoxicy nods
<bddebian>  sudo pbuild-feisty create... nnnooooo
<LaserJock> bddebian: dooooo it!
<bddebian> LaserJock: It's running :-(
<bddebian> Hmm build-essential blew up on libc6-dev
<ryanakca> hmmm... for feisty, should I package "Monkey Studio Beta  	2006.1.6.0-d-1.0.1" or "Monkey Studio Stable  	2006.1.5.3"? Monkey Studio = development app...
<ryanakca> bddebian: ouch... that doesn't sound good
* ryanakca 's pbuilder-feisty create ran fine :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: why are you doing and upgrade as opposed to making a fresh one?
<LaserJock> s/and/an/
<LaserJock> rmjb: you still around?
<rmjb> just got off the phone
<rmjb> 'sup?
<LaserJock> rmjb: check your REVU email
* rmjb does happy dance!
<rmjb> YAY!!! I might get my name into Ubuntu!
<ajmitch> hm?
<crimsun> getting one's name in is easy. Keeping one's name out of bug e-mail is NP hard.
<rmjb> well... as the maintainer or packager of a hardly used package
<LaserJock> rmjb: ah crap, I forgot to say, get rid of the config.* in the diff.gz
<LaserJock> rmjb: can you fix that and reupload real quick?
<rmjb> it's in the source tarball...
<rmjb> I guess it got updated when I did a test build
<LaserJock> it's also  in your diff.gz
<rmjb> the change is a timestamp
<LaserJock> probably from the clean: rule
<LaserJock> crimsun ajmitch: are those ifneq "$(wildcard /usr/share/misc/config.sub)" "" lines in clean: from debhelper really needed
<LaserJock> I've never figured out why they are there
<ajmitch> to update them when building
<ajmitch> useful for the weird & wonderful architectures debian has
<LaserJock> ok but they aren't normally needed are they?
<minghua> autotools-dev's README has good explanation for that
<ajmitch> keep them up to date in 1 place, instead of relying on the upstream maintainer
<rmjb> I extracted the orig.tgz again but when I do a rebuild of the source package it updates the files again
<rmjb> should I just edit the diff manually?
<LaserJock> minghua: hehe "(Before packaging something in Debian that uses GNU autoconf, you must read the
<LaserJock> "Introduction" and the "Calling GNU configure properly" sections)"
<LaserJock> that's nice to know *now*
<minghua> hehe
<LaserJock> nice place to hide it too
<minghua> don't worry, I didn't read them until one year after my first upload either ;-)
<LaserJock> rmjb: I think you could take out the lines from debian/rules in the clean: rule that copy them in
<bddebian> LaserJock: I did a create not an update
<LaserJock> oh
<rmjb> LaserJock: thanks, doing that now
<bddebian> Gah, what a moron..
<bddebian> Now I remember why I stopped working.. 'Cause I'm an idiot..
<rmjb> why do I have to remove the use-agent line from gpg.conf every time I reboot?
<crimsun> because you're special.
<bddebian> Any of you kernel hacker types?
<LaserJock> bddebian: at least you're in good company
<bddebian> LaserJock: Bah, you're a STUD
<crimsun> for some tiny portion of the kernel, mayhap
<bddebian> Do you happen to know how cpu_has_fxsr gets set?
<joejaxx> Hello All
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i am on that Wallstreet :)
<joejaxx> it took literally all day to upgrade to dapper
<bddebian> Powerbook?
<joejaxx> from breezy
<joejaxx> yes a powerbook
<bddebian> Eeks, that's OldWorld right?
<joejaxx> yes
<bddebian> What bootloader did you use?
<joejaxx> BootX
<bddebian> oof
<joejaxx> i have a 300mb partition and a 30gb one
<joejaxx> the 300mb partition holds os9
<LaserJock> bddebian: STUD? hardly, crimsun's the only stud around here
<joejaxx> from which i boot into ubuntu
<bddebian> joejaxx: Aye, I used to run Debian on a few oldworlds.  In fact I think i still have an old WallstreetII around here somewhere
<joejaxx> haha nice :)
<joejaxx> bddebian: you are the one that runs hurd right?
<bddebian> Aye
<bddebian> Oh crap, I have a feisty pbuilder now.. :'-(
<ryanakca> bddebian: I have pbuilder-dapper, pbuilder-edgy and pbuilder-feisty :)
* ryanakca thinks pbuilder is sick though... http://pastebin.ca/270098
<ryanakca> any idea what that's about?
<bddebian> One of the mirrors in pbuilderrc is hosed?
<ryanakca> hmm... 
* ryanakca checks
<ryanakca> nope, archive.ubuntu.com is still up :)
<bddebian> ryanakca: Local hostname issue?
<crimsun> bddebian: do you use lxr?
<ryanakca> don't think so...
<bddebian> crimsun: lxr?
<crimsun> bddebian: for 2.6.17ish, see arch/i386/kernel/traps.c::trap_init()
<bddebian> Gah I only have 2.4 on that box :-(
<crimsun> which 2.4?
<bddebian> 2.4.33.3
<crimsun> include/asm-i386/bugs.h::check_fpu()
<crimsun> LaserJock: nosir, you're the MOTU superstar!
<bddebian> boot_cpu_data.hardmath?
<LaserJock> crimsun: has-been superstar maybe ;-)
<crimsun> bddebian: see if (cpu_has_fxsr) ...?
<crimsun> (it's a macro)
<bddebian> Aye but how does that macro get set?  It's the value of X86_FEATURES_<something>
<nixternal> crimsun == the supernova (remember, stars burn out - we can't afford that)
<LaserJock> hmmm, good point
<nixternal> supernovas blow up though don't they? i can't remember, last time i took that kind of junk was probably 20 years ago
<LaserJock> and maybe bddebian is a black hole :p
* nixternal holds back the comments
<crimsun> bddebian: arch/i386/kernel/setup.c::x86_fxsr_setup()
* LaserJock reminds himself to think before speaking in front of nixternal 
<bddebian> LaserJock: Are you saying that I suck? :-)
* nixternal fo tnorf ni gnikaeps erofeb kniht ot flesmih sdnimer kcoJresaL
<nixternal> i can't even think forward let alone backwards
* ajmitch is a lump of rock, floating out in space
<bddebian> nixternal: :-)
<rmjb> so it was recommended in this fine chat room some time ago that we could use bzr to manage the changes to our debian/ files in our packages
* nixternal lines up the Laser(Jock) to take out the ajmitchstroid
<rmjb> I *started* to do that... but how do you get out a previous version?? that's the whole reason I wanted version control
<rmjb> to be able to go back
<bddebian> nixternal: hehe
<rmjb> I tried the branch command but that didn't seem to work on one file
<lifeless> rmjb: what do you want to achieve ?
<bddebian> crimsun: And my dumb ass is supposed to understand that?
<bddebian> static int __init x86_fxsr_setup(char * s)
<bddebian> {
<bddebian>         set_bit(X86_FEATURE_XMM, disabled_x86_caps);
<bddebian>         set_bit(X86_FEATURE_FXSR, disabled_x86_caps);
<lifeless> rmjb: give me a specific case, not a general case
<rmjb> lifeless: I have 6 files in a directory that's managed by bzr and I want to go back a few versions on one of the files
<lifeless> rmjb: bzr revert -r -3 filename
<rmjb> thanks
<rmjb> is there a bzr gui with all this functionality? I have Olive 0.11.0, but it's not in there
<rmjb> and I didn't see it on the command list (though I do now)
<lifeless> nautilus-bzr might, I'm not siure
<lifeless> #bzr is the right channel to get better answers to that question, sorry.
<bddebian> crimsun: Thx btw :-)
<bddebian> Damnit how do I dump the output from dpkg --compare-versions again?
<Gloubiboulga> T`: pong
<T`> Gloubiboulga, hey!
<Gloubiboulga> hi T` 
<T`> Gloubiboulga, are u the guy who made feisty verve-plugins?
<T`> 0.3.4
<Gloubiboulga> I didn't update that package, but I usually take of the Xfce apps
<Gloubiboulga> there's a missing binary in the package, right?
<Gloubiboulga> (I read the logs)
<T`> yup..
<T`> verve-focus
<T`> i downloaded your source pkg and built my own binary pkg.. so not worried about propogation time atm..
<Gloubiboulga> I'll fix that ASAP
<T`> thanks.. we were thinking you might have some reason to not do it
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<T`> Gloubiboulga, its just removing two lines from debian/rules
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian :)
<T`> what does MOTU stand ford?
<T`> for*
<LaserJock> Masters Of The Universe
* rmjb always wondered who in Ubuntu was He-Man
<rmjb> and more importantly... She-Ra :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> well She-Ra is a bit easier to narrow down
<bddebian> Hobbsee? :)
<LaserJock> we have Prince Holbach for sure ;-)
<LaserJock> He-Mark?
<ajmitch> scary
<ajmitch> though hobbsee is scary enough by herself :)
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> ajmitch: How do I get the result of dpkg --compare-versions?  I thought it was like >> stdout or some such?
<engla> I'd like to package this app: eqe http://rlehy.free.fr/ Or in any case just have it packaged. But the upstream tarball is really unclean, shipping with debian/ and rpm/ already etc 
<ajmitch> bddebian: return value
<bddebian> ajmitch: ?
<LaserJock> you'd think it's spit out something like "yep, it's bigger"
<bddebian> LaserJock: Aye, no shit :-)
<LaserJock> s/it's/it'd/
<LaserJock> bddebian: you have to echo the return value
<bddebian> LaserJock: I know but I don't remember how
<minghua> echo $?
<ajmitch> or test the return value
<LaserJock> at least somebody around here knows how to use a shell
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<bddebian> Uhm...
<ajmitch> yes
<bddebian> I don't get it :'-(
<rmjb> !feisty
<ubotu> The next version of Ubuntu (7.04; codenamed "Feisty Fawn"), it should be released in April 2007. At the moment it is pre-alpha. Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule - Specifications (goals): https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty - Help in #ubuntu+1
<rmjb> at DebianImportFreeze MoM stops?
<ajmitch> rmjb: yes
<rmjb> I thought that went up to UVF
<ajmitch> not anymore
<ajmitch> partly because etch may release before UVF, so we don't want everything automatically breaking
<rmjb> so this is only in place for feisty?
<ajmitch> maybe
<ajmitch> there were other reasons as well
<rmjb> also, isn't sid not controlled by etch... except that with a release imminent less people will be working on sid and more on etch
<minghua> rmjb: no, currently many people are holding uploads of new stuff to sid because they don't want to affect etch
<minghua> rmjb: only once etch is frozen people can really start working on sid and don't think about etch
<rmjb> well, while it gives ubuntu a lot of time to stabalise, and with etch coming out soon (hopefully) it makes sense now, it'll mean ubuntu ships with a majority of packages that are possibly up to 4 months old
<rmjb> okay, I've learned something about the debian release process tonite
<rmjb> hey minghua haven't seen you around for a while
<rmjb> but I'm not on all the time so...
<_Enchained> hi
<minghua> rmjb: yeah, didn't do much on ubuntu the past two weeks
<_Enchained> Someone can help me on the choice of the section for a package ?
<rmjb> hey _Enchained
<rmjb> what kind of package?
<_Enchained> the soft is dvd95
<_Enchained> it's on REVU
<rmjb> you can see the package sections here http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/
<rmjb> what does dvd95 do? Play dvds?
<_Enchained> gloubiboulga reviewed it and said that the "x11" section isn't maybe the best choice
<_Enchained> it convert DVD9 to DVD5
<rmjb> a video transcoder then
<_Enchained> to burn backup of video dvd for example
<rmjb> sounds like acidrip or mencoder
<rmjb> see what section they're in
<_Enchained> it rip a DVD9 in a ISO file (4,7G)
<rmjb> well... since it deals with video it might still fit in the section with video transcoders
<rmjb> http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/graphics/ lists acidrip and mencoder so maybe you can use graphics
<rmjb> if not there's always misc... but I'd try graphics first
<rmjb> note I'm not an MOTU, I'm just a hopeful like you
<_Enchained> yes acidrip is for ripping DVD too so I try graphics (even if it seems strange to me)
<_Enchained> thanks
<rmjb> np, anytime
<rmjb> g'night all
<_Enchained> Can I delete all commented lines in my debin/rules to make it smaller or should I let them for understanding ?
<_Enchained> debian*
<LaserJock> hmm, do the DVDs have Ubuntu and Kubuntu on them?
<ajmitch> they have all of main, I believe
<LaserJock> do you know it it give you options at boot as to what you want to install?
<LaserJock> *if
<LaserJock> hmm, the .list file doesn't have kubuntu/edubuntu/xubuntu meta packages on it
<bddebian> 2 down
<bddebian> +1 rejected bug
<LaserJock> rockin'
<LaserJock> you da man
<_Enchained> Someone can help me in the choice of a section for a package ?
<ajmitch> bddebian: you've done more than I have now
* ajmitch stands in awe
<LaserJock> _Enchained: graphics sounds ok to me
<_Enchained> there is dvdrtools in otherosfs section and acidrip in graphics section. Mine is a tool that convert (rip) DVD9 to DVD5, so what's the best ?
<_Enchained> ok LaserJock
<_Enchained> to update a package in REVU, a simple dput like the first ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<_Enchained> ok ;)
* bddebian kicks ajmitch in the shins ;-P
<T`> MOTU
<T`> heh.. seems like a natural thing to say in such a situation ;)
<XiXaQ> hello everyone.
<bddebian> Hello XiXaQ
<XiXaQ> Could you please make FreeNX part of Feisty Fawn? :)
<XiXaQ> FreeNX is really boss.
<bddebian> What is FreeNX?
<LaserJock> it's a free NX ;-)
<XiXaQ> It's an extremely fast terminal server for unix. 
<bddebian> LaserJock: And NX is? ;-P
<XiXaQ> It makes RDP look like stoneage technology.
<LaserJock> XiXaQ: I don't think it's a trivial package
<bddebian> How's it licensed?
<LaserJock> I think Seveas has a package perhaps
<XiXaQ> LaserJock, installing it is really straight forward. 
<XiXaQ> bddebian, GPL.
<bddebian> Installing it != packaging it ;-)
<XiXaQ> LaserJock, he does. And the wiki has guides to installing it, but I feel it should be a natural part of Ubuntu.
<LaserJock> I think there are reasons why it isn't
<bddebian> Gah, that reminds me, I want to package FreeLords
<_Enchained> when doing dput : Already uploaded to revu.tauware.de
<XiXaQ> bddebian, oh, I see. But it's so cool, I think it deserves some special attention.
<_Enchained> there is an option for update ?
<bddebian>  -f
<LaserJock> XiXaQ: you are welcome to help get it in :-)
<XiXaQ> LaserJock, how?
<_Enchained> ok bddebian thx
<LaserJock> by learning how to package and maintain
<LaserJock> if you have an interest in it then perhaps you would find it fun
<XiXaQ> LaserJock, I probably will learn that in time. I've got ways to go until I'm that advanced though.
<LaserJock> well, there are lots of people here learning
<bddebian> Except for LaserJock.  He's the Master in MOTU ;-)
<XiXaQ> but I don't know C++ or anything.
<LaserJock> I don't really either
<LaserJock> you certainly don't need to know C++
<LaserJock> if you're interested I'd suggest reading through the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<LaserJock> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<bddebian> XiXaQ: Aye, many of us are not "programmers"
<LaserJock> XiXaQ: do you know where the existing source package is?
<XiXaQ> LaserJock, Seveas has packages on his site. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreeNX 
<bddebian> endeavour done
<XiXaQ> but as I stated earlier, I think NX is so cool, it should be given priority. We use Ubuntu in order to speed up Remote Desktop Connection between Windows clients and Windows Terminal server :)
<_Enchained> the package is updated :) Can someone take a look at ?
<LaserJock> XiXaQ: it could be that nx is the problem
<ajmitch> freenx is not in ubuntu for some good reasons, the chief ones being that the upstream source is an utter mess :)
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> that hasn't stopped many upstreams ;-)
<XiXaQ> ajmitch, what do you mean by that?
<ajmitch> shipping xfree86 libs that have been heavily modified, etc
<ajmitch> the concept is nice
<ajmitch> the implementation works, but isn't nice
<XiXaQ> it doesn't just work, it works great. Far better than RDP. 
<ajmitch> I know it works great, I've used it quite a bit
<ajmitch> full KDE desktop on a 128kbps transtasman link, etc
<XiXaQ> yes, I have 640Kbps upstream bandwidth, and I have no difficulties serving ten clients. 
<LaserJock> yeah, I've always had problems with it, but it seems cool
<LaserJock> I usually end up using VNC though
<ajmitch> NX is just not something that'll be easy to integrate well
<ajmitch> mithrandir has looked at it in the past & can tell you more, I think
<XiXaQ> besides, the NX client is able to connect both NX and RDP servers. If offices starts using that client instead of the builtin MS RDP client, and Ubuntu has support for the FreeNX server... 
<XiXaQ> LaserJock, that's probably because you're using the clients from Nomachine.com, right? Those doesn't work with freenx.
<LaserJock> no, I've always had problem with ssh stuff
<LaserJock> but also that
<XiXaQ> ajmitch, oh, I'll chat with him when he gets up then.
<bddebian> gnushogi sync requested..
<ajmitch> it was a while ago, so things will have changed
<ajmitch> but not much improvement, from what I last saw a couple of months ago
<XiXaQ> ajmitch, well, I don't know the process of adding new software to the repositories, but it seems to me, that if seveas is able to do it by himself, then MOTU should be able to too?
<LaserJock> seveas has basically stopped doing it though, I believe
<LaserJock> because it's such a pain
<LaserJock> and I don't think he thought they were ready for Ubuntu proper
<bddebian> Are we still adding dh_iconcache?
<ajmitch> XiXaQ: seveas didn't make packages that were anywhere near close enough for inclusion
<XiXaQ> ajmitch, how much work could it be? If the packages are updated once a year or something? 
<bddebian> Try it and see ;-)
<XiXaQ> That's not fair :) I'm not qualified, so I _would_ use alot of time.
<bddebian> Not all of us are "ultimately" qualified either :-(
<bddebian> LaserJock: Are we still adding dh_iconcache?
<LaserJock> not exactly sure, I believe we are keeping them in merges, but I'm not positive about that
<LaserJock> yeah, I think we are
<bddebian> D00d, you are the All Knowing :-)
<LaserJock> if it uses the gnome or KDE CDBS it doesn't need it
<LaserJock> XiXaQ: if you can find somebody that has time to make it into a proper package and get the upstream stuff worked out then go for it
<ajmitch> XiXaQ: it's not so much a case of how often they're updated, but how much work needs to be put into making them work nicely in a distro
<LaserJock> I just know that I personally don't have time for it
<minghua> bddebian: I know for packages using cdbs dh_iconcache is definitely not needed anymore, not sure about others
<bddebian> minghua: Aye, I knew that, thanks
<LaserJock> arggg, it looks like I've got bashisms everywhere
<bddebian> w00t
<LaserJock> or maybe not
<LaserJock> this ./autogen.sh is *not* working like it did on Edgy
<ajmitch> back later
<bddebian> later ajmitch
<LaserJock> I just get a bunch of lines like:
<LaserJock> gnome-doc-utils.make:104: if $(DOC_USER_FORMATS: non-POSIX variable name
<LaserJock> gnome-doc-utils.make:104: (probably a GNU make extension)
<XiXaQ> ajmitch, so they would _have_ to be updated for every distro?
<joejaxx> anyone know where gnome keeps the gdm themes?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I'd just dpkg -c one of the gdm theme .debs
<bddebian> shit..
<LaserJock> XiXaQ: I don't think it's so much that
<joejaxx> LaserJock: uh
<LaserJock> XiXaQ: freenx would need a lot of work to integrate properly in Ubuntu and be up to Ubuntu's standards for inclusion
<LaserJock> and it would also take a fair amount of work to maintain it as well
<LaserJock> bug fixing, etc.
<LaserJock> I've worked on vnc a bit and it's a headache and I'm guessing freenx is moreso
<XiXaQ> Then it's a matter of priority? I think FreeNX deservers that.
<LaserJock> it's not a matter of priority
<LaserJock> it's a matter of finding somebody willing to do it
<minghua> XiXaQ: It's more about people instead of priority
<LaserJock> so I guess it's somewhat priority based
<LaserJock> somebody needs to feel it's priority enough to do it
<minghua> XiXaQ: you need to find some one who is willing to work on FreeNX
<bddebian> Well I hope gramps works.. :-(
<XiXaQ> minghua, that's why I'm making such a fuzz out of it. I was hoping someone here would be. :)
<LaserJock> well, FreeNX has been around for quite some time
<LaserJock> you're welcome to email ubuntu-motu asking for volunteers or work on it yourself
<LaserJock> we can help you learn to package
<XiXaQ> yes, but if I understand correctly, it takes more than being able to package it?
<LaserJock> why?
<minghua> let's call "maintain it" instead of "package it"
<XiXaQ> I don't know. You were talking about integration with Ubuntu..
<LaserJock> sure
<minghua> XiXaQ: that's what package mean, or at least "properly package" mean
<LaserJock> it needs to be a good enough quality package that we think it should go in
<LaserJock> we have to make sure we don't mess up users systems, break other packages, etc.
<XiXaQ> minghua, ok, so it doesn't require altering the code itself?
<minghua> XiXaQ: not necessarily.
<minghua> sometimes it just need good communication with upstream
<minghua> so you can forward Ubuntu user's bug report to upstream and let the developers fix it
<XiXaQ> I see.
<XiXaQ> the last few weeks, I've been demonstrating Ubuntu desktop with OO.org and Evolution as an alternative to windows desktop with MS Office and Outlook. The common response is that they feel Ubuntu is more user friendly. I would absolutely love it if Ubuntu could be an equal competitor to Windows Terminal Server. 
<LaserJock> mhm
<minghua> don't we already have a team working on LTSP stuff?
<Burgundavia> we do
<Burgundavia> well, if ogra == a team
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: little more then just ogra
<LaserJock> but yeah
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: depends if you count scott as ours our upstreams
<LaserJock> well, he is both
<LaserJock> he has declared himself an Edubuntu guy :-)
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> I think he's even an edubuntu-member
<Burgundavia> right, that means we do have a team
<LaserJock> moquist is working on it to I believe
<LaserJock> I'm not sure though
<Burgundavia> moquist is working on linking edubuntu to AD
<LaserJock> ouch, planet gnome has "Flash+Firefox+AMD64 Edgy" issues
<crimsun> "Flash" is all I needed to see.
<LaserJock> well, it did involve alien
<Burgundavia> crimsun: you can stop twitching
<minghua> flash 9 doesn't seem to play with anybody
<minghua> many input methods causes firefox + flash to crash as well
<Burgundavia> I have inconsistent luck with 9
<crimsun> I don't know what's worse, the fact that it's Flash 7 being used or that it's Flash at all
<Burgundavia> ok, it is somewhat ironic I am the primary triager of compiz bugs right now
<LaserJock> is it?
<LaserJock> nothing like spite to make the bug count go up ;-)
<Burgundavia> given my stated opposition to be against the whole raison d'etre of compiz by default, yes
<Laser_away> I'm heading home to a new seagate
<Laser_away> cya tomorrow
<lifeless> tchau
<bddebian> Later Laser_away
* Burgundavia rages about LP
<Burgundavia> I hate its dupe handling
<crimsun> bddebian: (you will want to follow sync req policy as outlined at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000181.html )
<bddebian> crimsun: Thanks.
<bddebian> See, I knew I should have stayed away ;-P
<bddebian> Anyway, time for bed. Gnight folks
<crimsun> 'night
<lifeless> how can I get beryl running ?
<Burgundavia> lifeless: first you take this gun and point it toward your head
<lifeless> ..
<elkbuntu> lifeless, he has a point, it will be more pleasant
<lifeless> cant give feedback until I have tried
<lifeless> ... so how ?
<lifeless> is there a wiki page ?
<elkbuntu> there might be. there's also the beryl site... which i dont know the url of
<Burgundavia> beryl-project.org
<elkbuntu> yeah, that's it
<Burgundavia> there is a package coming soonish, once they busy cleanup upstreams drool
<elkbuntu> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BerylOnEdgy
<lifeless> elkbuntu: what about fisty ?
<elkbuntu> lifeless, dont ask me, ask them #beryl-dev iirc
<elkbuntu> lifeless, im not likely to be trying to get it working any time soon... DBO had to use every hack and workaround to get it going on my laptop at UDS
<lifeless> ah
<elkbuntu> lifeless, compiz on dapper worked easy peasy. figure the problem.
<Burgundavia> lifeless: fisty is what beryl is going to do your laptop, yes
<lifeless> Burgundavia: :)
<lifeless> later y'all
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hey daniel
<ajmitch> how are you?
<dholbach> fine thanks, just waking up - how are you?
<ajmitch> fine, though it's quite wet & not like summer at all here :)
<dholbach> hehe :)
<ajmitch> how goes the bug squashing?
<dholbach> i cleaned up my mailbox from answered bugs already, but I still have 800 to go
<dholbach> cleaned up all the art bugs yesterday - we'll see what I do today :)
<ajmitch> got grayskull sorted? :)
<dholbach> seesm that the TB is happy with it
<ajmitch> yeah, I saw that
<dholbach> yoooho :)
* ajmitch sat through the meeting
<ajmitch> seems like they're happy with approval by TB of members to be done outside of TB meetings, by a single TB member
<dholbach> yes, I added that to the spec
<ajmitch> yay :)
<ajmitch> so pitti will be on the team?
<dholbach> I'm not sure
<dholbach> For my taste he's too busy already
<dholbach> he fits in too well in too many places :-)
<ajmitch> yeah, though it could be good to have some distro team input
<ajmitch> far too skilled :)
<dholbach> we'll figure something out
<ajmitch> I think we should be able to catch up on merges soon enough
<ajmitch> keybuk was worried about universe falling behind there
<ademan> geeze, i missed vil again
<ajmitch> email may be better
<ademan> ajmitch: yeah, though one of the new motus contacted me offering assistance, or even to just plain do it for me.  I think i'm gonna take him up on his offer, i'm going nuts.  But having said that, i really did wanna do it myself... I wanted to contribute SOMETHING
<ademan> i suppose there will be other chances for me to contribute
<unix_infidel> Hello, I'm just curious as to where I can make an official package request sumbission.
<unix_infidel> Rest assured this isnt something trivial :P
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
<Seveas> ajmitch, freenx/nomachine upstream is nowhere near sane enough to include in any official repository
<Seveas> no ubuntu dev wants that pain
<ajmitch> Seveas: that's what I was trying to argue :)
<Burgundavia> Seveas, ajmitch: one of the gentoo people was working on 2x, which is a nx deriv, replacing builtin stuff, etc.
<Seveas> Burgundavia, the kanotix people and myself are also switching to that source
<Burgundavia> ok, coo
<Burgundavia> it occurs to me that the ltsp and stateless linux people need to be talking, but that is niether here nor there
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: it's a start, but it has a long long way to go to clean up
<Burgundavia> yes
<unix_infidel> Are there instances where a package that doesnt meet the Debian Policy Manual standards are included in Ubuntu?
<lotusleaf> Hi, I'm looking to test compiz in edgy, and I've heard twice now from two different people that "compiz in edgy is compiz-quinn ie beryl" is this true? I'd prefer to test compiz.
<unix_infidel> or is that a rare case as Ubuntu is a Debian based distro?
<minghua> unix_infidel: it's not even a rare case for Debian packages not meeting Debian Policy standards ;-)
<unix_infidel> minghua: Heh, i suppose that's true.
<unix_infidel> Basically what i've got a is a science oriented application here that someone has already packaged.
<unix_infidel> http://wiki.jmol.org/index.php/Debian
<minghua> Does jmol builds with non-Sun java now?
<unix_infidel> I guess that answers my question.
<unix_infidel> Debian nor Ubuntu ships with Sun Java.
<unix_infidel> I'll just test the 3rd party debs in VM before i put them into production.  Thanks :)
<minghua> I've been hearing about getting jmol into Debian for years now
<xerxas> Hi all !
<minghua> at least now we have hope :-)
<ArwynH> eh? ubuntu ships with sun-java or doesn't multivese count?
<minghua> for building purposes I suppose it's fair to not count multiverse
<ArwynH> hmm.. on the topic of sun-java are there any plans to move it into universe since it's been GLPed?
<unix_infidel> minghua: Then it only makes sense that a more "progressive" Debian-based distro which encourages developmental success in a breadth of areas should be the first to tout itself as a distribution dynamic enough to be used in scientific production.
<unix_infidel> Without having to create a branch :P
<ajmitch> ArwynH: not until class libraries are also released under a free license
<ArwynH> there is always a catch isn't there :(
<ajmitch> yep
<unix_infidel> This is the free software game.  There's always going to be a catch :)
<\sh> moins
<lotusleaf> how odd, burgerspace in the repos works but with no sound, whereas burgerspace from source works with sound, oh well, must be a missing lib
<xerxas> is someone working on landell/tapioca-sharp ? 
<xerxas> dholbach ? 
<xerxas> you there ? 
<xerxas> I need some help on libjingle 
<dholbach> xerxas: nobody's working on it
<dholbach> xerxas: giskard is busy for this and the next week
<dholbach> xerxas: and it'd be good to get going on it
<xerxas> dholbach,  yes, but I have a lot of difficulties 
<StevenK> dholbach: Does this mean his merges are open season? :-P
<dholbach> StevenK: does he have open man of them?
<xerxas> wondering if I should better work on this or on syncs/merges or on bug triaging 
<xerxas> dholbach,  the thing is: landell needs tapioca-sharp 
<dholbach> xerxas: I know
<xerxas> and tapioca-sharp is only on svn 
<dholbach> xerxas: we have other packages that live in svn only atm too
<xerxas> the svn tree has tapioca-sharp tree contains also python bindings and a lot of other stuff 
<StevenK> Hrm. The only merge of giskard's is libtelepathy.
<xerxas> dholbach,  I don't speak about packages , I speak about upstream 
<dholbach> xerxas: telepathy-blue, gossip-telepathy, libtelepathyqt, etc
<dholbach> xerxas: best to ask which module you need
<xerxas> on #tapioca-sharp ? 
<xerxas> erm 
<xerxas> I meant on #tapioca-voip 
<dholbach> yeah
<xerxas> ./trunk/tapioca-sharp
<xerxas> ./branches/0.3.9/tapioca-sharp
<sivang> morning
<dholbach> just ask them
<xerxas> I should use this one: ./branches/0.3.9/tapioca-sharp
<dholbach> I didn't look at the code yet, so I don't know
<xerxas> dholbach,  to be honest, I already asked them 
<dholbach> slomo, ajmitch and bhale can probably help you with the mono packaging
<xerxas> someone answered me that packages exists 
<xerxas> here : http://extindt01.indt.org/VoIP/apt/pool/main/
<dholbach> good
<dholbach> then have a look at them
<dholbach> I'm quite busy with other things
<xerxas> I asked the guy which is doing that 
<xerxas> he told me he is not going to package this for feisty right now 
<xerxas> how should I proceed ? (I took on note that I should ask slomo, ajmitch  and bhale) 
<xerxas> dholbach,  the thing is, I would like to help but every people redirect me to somewhere else 
<dholbach> look at the packages and see if they make sense and work for us
<dholbach> if not, do changes we need
<dholbach> once they're sane you can ask for reviews
<xerxas> dholbach,  is it ok to work with ./branches/0.3.9/tapioca-sharp ? 
<dholbach> I don't know
<dholbach> you need to ask people and test it
<xerxas> then I should bzr push the debian/ubuntu directory ? 
* ajmitch can see that the packages at that url are not sane, they need some work
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> #tapioca-voip people are VERY helpful and happy to help with packaging
<dholbach> is saw that with libtelepathyqt and syncropated
<xerxas> ajmitch,  can you explain me what do you see ? 
<ajmitch> they don't follow the debian policy, cli policy, etc
<xerxas> ajmitch, they don't meet mono packaging rules ? 
<ajmitch> too many things to list right now :)
<xerxas> mono packaging rules are what you call cli policy ? 
<ajmitch> I only took a very very quick glance
<ajmitch> yes
<xerxas> ajmitch,  ok 
<ajmitch> http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
<xerxas> so you think I should restart from scratch ? 
<ajmitch> could be a good idea
<xerxas> ajmitch,  with branch/0.3.9 ? 
<ajmitch> I don't know anything about tapioca-sharp itself
<xerxas> ajmitch,  ok 
<ajmitch> so asking me what branch won't get a good answer
<xerxas> I think I once saw a tool that allows me to do apt-cache search on debian apt sources from a ubuntu 
<xerxas> does anyone now that tool ? 
<xerxas> ajmitch,  does cdbs plays nicely with cli-policy ? 
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> most mono apps we have are packaged with cdbs
<ajmitch> & libraries are as well
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: here?
<Adri2000> Laser_away: I will make a man page for homebank. but I don't think the .desktop file should be in homebank instead of homebank-data because 1) it's arch indep 2) the icon for the .desktop file is in -data
<geser> if someone has only homebank-data he has a .desktop file without a binary
<Adri2000> yeah, true...
<Adri2000> is it possible with dh_make to add the man page template without overwriting the whole debian/ directory?
<Adri2000> ah, found in /usr/share/debhelper/dh_make/debian/
<Adri2000> manpage.1.ex, manpage.sgml.ex or manpage.xml.ex?
<guibis> hi slomo
<guibis> :-)
<shawarma> I'm looking at some of the merges for Edgy. this one puzzles me: http://merges.ubuntu.com/a/afterstep/afterstep_2.2.2-1ubuntu1.patch
<shawarma> It only merges the changelog.
<shawarma> \sh: around?
<shawarma> Adri2000: Did you figure it out yet?
<Adri2000> shawarma: what?
<shawarma> Adri2000: The different man pages.
<Adri2000> yep, manpage.1.ex
<shawarma> Adri2000: Right. The others are just other examples of ways you can create man pages. If you use one of the others, you just add a rule to debian/rules to convert it to a nroff file.
<Adri2000> ok, thanks :)
* Adri2000 have to go
<Adri2000> bye
<xerxas> what section tapioca-sharp should be in ? 
<xerxas> net ? 
<shawarma> Either that or libs, I guess.
<xerxas> libs should be better 
<xerxas> thanks 
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<dholbach> about to leave - see you later
<proppy> seeya
<proppy> the diff.gz was bloated btw
<fbond> MOTUs with free time might consider perusing http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3692
<fbond> be nice to have a bot that filled in the details of a REVU package ... :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<xerxas> someone working on telepathy here ? 
<xerxas> can I create bzr branches for tapioca-sharp / landell ? 
<xerxas> Hi bddebian  
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<zul> jeez you guys are quiet today
<xerxas> yup
<xerxas> it's quiet here ... 
<xerxas> dholbach,  I have a debian/ directory for tapioca-sharp , but it doesn't build 
<xerxas> can I still put a bzr branche as a start ? 
<dholbach> sure
<dholbach> tapioca-qt would be nice too
<xerxas> dholbach,  how do I push ? I don't find any docs on the wiki , I'll write one I think but I would like to have some directions 
<xerxas> do I first need to create the branch on launchpad ? 
<xerxas> here: https://launchpad.net/people/telepathy/+addbranch ? 
<dholbach> you need to create the product
<slomo> guibis: hi
<guibis> how are you ?
<xerxas> dholbach,  here "https://launchpad.net/products/+new" ? 
<slomo> guibis: fine but tired ;) and you? didn't you want to write me a mail yesterday?
<xerxas> and that will fit in telepathy team ? 
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> no, that's a product
<guibis> slomo you haven't receive my mail ?
<dholbach> but every team can have branches for products
<slomo> guibis: nope... try again to slomo@ubuntu.com :)
<guibis> oki i do it 
<guibis> slomo: done
<guibis> :-)
<xerxas> dholbach,  ok , thanks 
<xerxas> done 
<xerxas> https://launchpad.net/products/tapioca-sharp 
<xerxas> then ? I need to "register a branch" ? 
<slomo> guibis: ah, went into my spam directory... sorry
<xerxas> https://launchpad.net/products/tapioca-sharp/+addbranch ? 
<dholbach> xerxas: no
<dholbach> just push to the place
<dholbach> we have a wiki page for that too
<xerxas> within the debian directory or within . ? 
<xerxas> dholbach,  I have searched but didn't find 
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Telepathy/HelpingOut
<xerxas> ok this is telepathy specific , I was searching for bzr stuff 
<guibis> ok i understand more some stuff slomo :-D !
<xerxas> "create a bzr branch locally" , how do I do that ? 
<dholbach> bzr init; bzr add *; bzr commit -m "<commit message>"
<dholbach> and if you searched for bzr generally, then you should have found bazaar-vcs.org or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrMaintainerHowto
<jdong> slomo: does 66348 have any chance at SRU or shall I attempt to backport?
<jdong> for ubotu that's BUG 66348
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66348 in tomboy "Tomboy cannot find service com.beatnicksoftware.Tomboy" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66348
<slomo> Ubugtu: bug 66348
<slomo> definitely not
<jdong> ok :)
<slomo> current tomboy in edgy has a fairly bad bug and the code changes are not trivial either
<slomo> and it needs packaging changes to be backported
<slomo> oh you mean SRU... that's even more unlikely, the patch was really intrusive, changed (build-) dependencies greatly, etc...
<jdong> yeah, SRU.... cjwatson has been gettin on my case about using backports to fix bugs :)
<jdong> ok, I'll see if it backports :)
<slomo> it's neither imho
<slomo> unless you want to backport a bad bug ;)
<jdong> slomo: the fiesty one is buggy?
<slomo> yes
<jdong> ah, ok
<jdong> <slomo> current tomboy in edgy has a fairly bad bug and the code changes are not trivial either
<jdong> ;-)
<jdong> may I suggest sleep?
<slomo> it includes the NoteOfTheDay plugin... which likes to create one note each minute on some locales
<slomo> sleep sounds good :)
<jdong> ok, that's off my list. thanks, slomo :)
<sivang> slomo: each minute?
<sivang> slomo: each day, no?
<jdong> sivang: I think that's the bug ;-)
<slomo> sivang: each day is what it is supposed to do... each minute is what it does in de_DE and some other locales
<sivang> jdong: eh , hehe
<sivang> oh funky
<slomo> the code for that plugin is really evil
* sivang wonders how a locale change can cause things like that
<jdong> sleep 1d && make-note....... 
<sivang> slomo: it's C# though?
<sivang> (the plugin)
<slomo> it compares the note title with the current date... but the date is localized and the de_DE translation for example contains the time for some reason
<slomo> yes, feel free to fix it :)
<jdong> lol
<sivang> hehe
<jdong> compares note title with date :)
<jdong> that's a great one
<sivang> jdong: yes, I think because when it creates a new day of the note, it uses the current date as the title
<sivang> (e.g. I can see it workign nicely here)
<slomo> it should just save the timestamp somewhere else
<sivang> indeed
<sivang> possibly, part of the note meta data
<slomo> the notes are xml, just add a random tag or attribute somewhere and things will continue to work *sigh*
<sivang> slomo: ^^^
* sivang gets the source just for educational purposes
<slomo> feel free to fix it :)
<sivang> slomo: where is that check / note creationg supposed to happen in the code?
<slomo> sivang: no idea, i never looked at the code of the plugin... upstream developer told me about it... should be in Tomboy/Plugins/NoteOfTheDay.cs or something
<sivang> slomo: yes, it in Plugins/NoteOfTheDay.cs inded.
<sivang> heh, nice
<sivang> public static string GetTitle (DateTime day)
<sivang> >...{
<sivang> >...>...// Format: "NotD: Friday, July 01 2005"
<sivang> >...>...return title_prefix + day.ToString (Catalog.GetString ("dddd, MMMM d yyyy"));
<sivang> slomo: btw, are you usign monodevelop to do C#/mono development or just vi ?
<slomo> the latter
<slomo> and there you found exactly one of the lines where wrong assumptions are made ;)
<guibis> slomo have you read my mail ?
<slomo> guibis: already answered it
<guibis> ok super i go out see you !
<slomo> ok... bye bye :)
<guibis> slomo have you some example of packaging .net ?
<slomo> banshee, f-spot, tomboy, monodevelop, mono*, ... :)
<guibis> because i don't know how do that , i know the base of package only ...
<guibis> oki i will see ...
<guibis> slomo i prefer english but i might practise my german !
<shawarma> slomo: Would you be alright with me doing your anjuta merge? It's kind of interesting as it's actually a downgrade.
<slomo> shawarma: sure, just take it :)
<shawarma> slomo: Or do you have any particularly good reason for not merging it?
<shawarma> slomo: The 2.0-branch has proven to be MAJORly unstable.
<shawarma> slomo: ..so Debian has downgraded it back to 1.2.4a.
<slomo> nope, should've been downgraded for edgy already but i noticed too late and had no time
<shawarma> slomo: Oh, ok. I'll upload it right away. Thanks.
<slomo> :)
<slomo> np
<cmpalmer> any hint as to when the mediawiki package in edgy will be fixed? the newest "mediawiki" metapackage depends on mediawiki-math of the same version (1.7~edgy1), but that is unavailable.
<cmpalmer> I should say... depends on mediawiki1.7 and mediawiki1.7-math
<jdong> cmpalmer: as soon as backports are processed again
<cmpalmer> jdong: which is generally how often?
<jdong> cmpalmer: I forgot to mention in the backports report that I needed mediawiki AND mediawiki1.7 backported
<jdong> cmpalmer: typically Fridays
<cmpalmer> so perhaps tomorrow, definitely by next week?
<jdong> cmpalmer: I hope so
<cmpalmer> :)
<jdong> cmpalmer: last week they didn't completely do all the backports
<engla> does ubuntu do any work on mediawiki?
<engla> we wanted it in main, but the security situation is apparently not so good
<jdong> and if that queue ain't cleared I might have a hissy fit :)
* proppy hugs dholbach
<jdong> cmpalmer: I'm trying my luck bugging archive admins today to make an exception :)
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<jdong> cmpalmer: ok, keybuk is your hero
<jdong> cmpalmer: In about 6 hours go into #ubuntu-devel and ask for backports binary NEW queue to be processed
<cmpalmer> jdong: rawk. :) thanks
<ddaa> whois mez
<ddaa> oops
<sivang> hey ddaa 
<zorglu_> q. i would like to link a programm with glibc in static under ubuntu, is there a package to get gnu libc in static ? (aka without the nss kludge) aka to avoid this kind of message during static linking/usr/lib/libglib-2.0.a(gutils.o): In function `g_get_any_init_do': warning: Using 'getpwuid' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking 
<joejaxx> oh great
<joejaxx> aiglx on edgy
<joejaxx> i forgot about that
<joejaxx> now i have no video on the wallstreet
<joejaxx> i need to disable that nonsense
<crimsun> it's much easier to simply not load dri or glx
<amnesia> re
<crimsun> nixternal: we can't proceed with #74549 [for feisty]  until you provide the necessary info according to the sync policy [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000181.html ] 
<superm1> crimsun, I still haven't heard back from Axel about getting a licensing blurb on ivtvdriver.org.  I was wondering if this is really necessary though now?  I was looking more closely at the source for msttcorefonts, since they would have the same problem as us.  debian/copyright doesn't mention anything about the license of the files downloaded.  debian/templates just mentions that they can't be redistributed, and must be for personal use only
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: hi !
<Sp4rKy> siretart: ping
<siretart> Sp4rKy: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: hello
<Sp4rKy> siretart: ping , i would some more information about revu
<siretart> Sp4rKy: only if its really quick. It's 7:37pm here, and I have still a lot of work to do for my thesis
<siretart> today
<Laser_away> Adri2000: ping
<Sp4rKy> siretart: just one question, can i have the cron script which check incoming packages ?
<siretart> Sp4rKy: you can find it in the revu1 source tree, it is called scripts/process_uploads.py
<siretart> or rather process_uploads.sh
<phanatic> evening
<Sp4rKy> siretart: thks :)
<bddebian> Heya phanatic, siretart, Sp4rKy :)
<phanatic> hey bddebian 
* siretart waves to phanatic and bddebian 
* phanatic waves back
* bddebian too
<Sp4rKy> heya bddebian 
<phanatic> Gloubiboulga: thanks for the upload :)
<Gloubiboulga> phanatic: no problem ;)
<crimsun> LaserJock: (contentless ping? sheesh :-)
<crimsun> superm1: I would say it's important. msttcorefonts has a slightly different case, since it's synced from Debian contrib
<superm1> I see
<superm1> crimsun, well since axel isn't getting back to me still, if i change it over to pull from the windows drivers, what license do i put with it?
<crimsun> superm1: what are you referring to with license? (the installer? the Windows drivers?)
<superm1> Well the installer would still be GPL, but what would I say about the windows drivers
<superm1> they are openly redistributable as far as I understand
<crimsun> superm1: you would need to cite an explicit reference to that in debian/copyright, then
<crimsun> "afaiu" isn't sufficient; you'd want the actual text
<bddebian> Damn, I can't tell if this tray icon code is in the new version of gwget2 or not.  I think it is..
<superm1> even if its an installer that doesn't ship with the windows driver .zip file
<superm1> well i'll have to hunt down something that actually indicates this then
<LaserJock> crimsun: yes, I'm fond of contentless pings ;-)
<bddebian> Oh gwget2 ftbfs anyway.. w00t
<LaserJock> hmm, so when are we getting this new dev-only mailing list?
<LaserJock> :-)
<zul> LaserJock: didnt you know we already have it, you werent invited ;)
<LaserJock> doh!
<bddebian> heh
<crippledcanary> Is it possible for someone here to have a look at the "scibes" package in REVU?
<crippledcanary> It's my first and I would like feedback if possible
<zul> LaserJock: something about not being worthy
<ademan> vil: i sent you an email back, my success has been very limited (see: none) but I told you just about everything I knew (see: nothing) hopefully it will be able to help some
<LaserJock> crippledcanary: "scibes"?
<crippledcanary> scribes, sorry for the spell error.
<crippledcanary> It's a python/gtk text editor that I find very useful.
<crippledcanary> Look at http://scribes.sourceforge.net
<LaserJock> crippledcanary: ok,  give me a little bit and I'll put some comments on there
<crimsun> debian 345810
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 345810 in wnpp "ITP: scribes -- A simple, slim and sleek text editor written for GNOME" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/345810
<LaserJock> crippledcanary: have you seen ^^?
<crippledcanary> No... but I'm looking at it now.
<LaserJock> I can't quite figure out how old it is
<Q-FUNK> stratus :)
<crimsun> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 13:33:09 UTC
<crippledcanary> I'm new at this. What am I supposed to do with this wishlist bug.
<crimsun> crippledcanary: it's for information only.
<stratus> Q-FUNK: hey.
<crimsun> (from your perspective)
<LaserJock> crippledcanary: it means you might want to email the person who filed the bug to see if they are still working on it
<LaserJock> it's kinda old though
<LaserJock> doesn't look like anybody got around to it
<crippledcanary> Can anyone look at my package to see if I made it correctly. Just out of a technical interest.
<crimsun> upid?
<crimsun> i.e., what's the url, crippledcanary?
<LaserJock> crippledcanary: ok, I dropped a few comments on there
<crippledcanary> crimsun: Its in REVU, search for it
<crimsun> I think if I could, I would have just done that.
<crimsun> (I'm firewalled, hence my asking)
<LaserJock> crippledcanary: ordinarily when you want a review you give the URL
<LaserJock> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3384
<crimsun> LaserJock: thanks
<geser> is here someone familiar with grace6? I'm trying to merge it and don't know which .desktop file to use: the debian one or the ubuntu one
<crippledcanary> ok... new at this.
<crippledcanary> will provide next time.
<LaserJock> geser: can you pastebin them for me?
<nixternal> crimsun: the only thing I see that I forgot in 74549 was the version #, anything else?
<LaserJock> crippledcanary: no problem :-)
<crimsun> nixternal: sure, the whole Ubuntu changes bit.
<nixternal> only reason i didn't add them as they were overwritten a couple syncs back. but i can do that up really quick..should i start from teh first Ubuntu changelog?
<geser> LaserJock: sure, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35809/ and http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35810/
<crimsun> nixternal: wait, you're requesting a sync of the same version?
<bddebian> Damn, we need a way to make notes on the merge pages :-(
<Adri2000> LaserJock: pong
<crimsun> nixternal: please reject your own bug. Note the md5sum mismatch; you can't sync that.
<nixternal> roger
<crimsun> nixternal: (md5sum mismatch of the orig.tar.gz, to be clear. Sorry for not catching that earlier.)
<nixternal> ya, i should have caught that myself
<nixternal> i thought i ran md5sum on them
<nixternal> cool, then it will be an easy merge
<crimsun> you can probably just fakesync.
<Adri2000> crimsun: hi, I think you skipped one of my merges on malone: bug 74160
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74160 in blobwars "[Merge]  blobwars 1.05-3ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74160
<nixternal> ya, toss me one more curve ball while your at it :)
<nixternal> that was the first time I heard of a fakesync
<crimsun> Adri2000: quite probable
<LaserJock> Adri2000: I think both the .desktop and icon should be in the homebank binary
<Adri2000> hmm ok LaserJock 
<LaserJock> they are for the homebank binary so it would make sense to ship them with that, don't you think?
<crimsun> nixternal: fakesyncs are done for mismatched orig.tar.gzs. Essentially you drop all Ubuntu changes (except debian/changelog) and just use Debian's packaging infrastructure.
<ajmitch> hi
<palski> what is that compat file in debian directory?
<crimsun> 'lo ajmitch 
<zul> hey ajmitch 
<crimsun> palski: see debhelper's man page
<fbond> crimsun, care to give midisport-firmware a quick OK?
<nixternal> ahh ok crimsun, so that is what I was going to do anyways
<LaserJock> palski: tells debhelper what version you are trying to be compatible with
<LaserJock> palski: i.e. a "5" in debian/compat is used for debhelper version 5
<palski> ok, thanks
<Adri2000> LaserJock: yeah, I agree
<crimsun> fbond: (url, please)
<fbond> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3692
<xerxas> am I supposed to use /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk for a package that compiles with autogen.sh ? 
<bddebian> Yes afaicr
<LaserJock> geser: go with the Debian .desktop
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<xerxas> bddebian, ok thanks 
<crimsun> Adri2000: can you send a patch to Debian BTS for blobwar's desktop file?
<crimsun> fbond: queued
<Adri2000> crimsun: yep, there are a few things in the packages I merged I will report in debian to be able to sync the next time
<crimsun> Adri2000: we'll need to carry the dh_iconcache delta afaik
<Adri2000> crimsun: ok, they don't use that in debian?
<crimsun> I'm not current with that; perhaps dholbach knows more about the status of dh_iconcache in Debian?
<dholbach> crimsun: unfortunately there's not movement there
<crimsun> dholbach: ok, thanks.
<dholbach> it's not as easy for them to change 12345654323456 packages
<crimsun> Adri2000: so yes, we'll need to carry that delta
<Adri2000> ok
<dholbach> and a package which installs an icon, but does not run gtk-update-icon-cache breaks the cache and some apps crash because they can't load icons
<crimsun> Adri2000: uploaded, thanks for your work!
<Adri2000> thank you for sponsoring crimsun :)
<crimsun> my pleasure
<nixternal> crimsun: with the fakesync/merge, changelog = Merge from Debian unstable, should I add more?
<LaserJock> "Fakesync from Debian unstable because of md5sum mismatch"?
<crimsun> nixternal: just note that it's a fakesync instead of a merge.
<nixternal> roger
<crimsun> fbond: debian/postinst doesn't seem to actually ``exit 1'' if mktemp fails
<nixternal> i will create a debdiff and post it like I do a merge then?
<nixternal> bugwise that is
<crimsun> nixternal: yep
<nixternal> alright, I will test build one more time just to be sure
<fbond> crimsun, ah crap, sorry about that
<Adri2000> LaserJock: I put the man page in the homebank binary package, right?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> the items that are specific to the binary (.desktop, manpage, icon) should go in the same package
<Adri2000> ok
<fbond> crimsun, ok, I guess we'll need one more upload from me.  any other issues at the moment?
<crippledcanary> When fixing stuff in a pagage should I change the -ubuntuX version before uploading or upload with the same as the current?
<crimsun> fbond: not that I saw.
<Adri2000> crippledcanary: -ubuntuX+1 of course
<LaserJock> crippledcanary: unless it's for review
<LaserJock> REVU I meant
<LaserJock> you can keep the same version for fixing things on REVU
<crippledcanary> It's for REVU. After changing stuff that other commented about.
<LaserJock> use the same version then
<crippledcanary> Ok...thanks
<crimsun> nixternal: (remember to change the distribution to 'feisty' and to not include the orig.tar.gz)
<nixternal> ok, then the only debdiff change will be in the changelog
<nixternal> the only changes that debdiff sees
<crimsun> (correct)
<nixternal> sweet
<fbond> crimsun, fix uploaded: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3704
<fbond> (when you have a second)
<nixternal> crimsun: bug 74863
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74863 in smb4k "[Feisty MoM] Fakesync smb4k_0.7.5-1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74863
<crimsun> fbond: 
<crimsun>   midisport-firmware_1.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
<crimsun> Successfully uploaded packages.
<crimsun> fbond: thanks for your work!
<fernando> crimsun: have you a little time to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3591 ?
<bddebian> Hey, who touched my midisport-firmware? ;-P
<crimsun> fernando: queued.
<fernando> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> nixternal: retain the current Ubuntu debian/changelog entries, please
<nixternal> ok
<nixternal> crimsun: http://librarian.launchpad.net/5320977/smb4k_0.7.5-1.debdiff
<nixternal> is that what you want?
<crimsun> nixternal: err, why is the entry for 0.7.4-0ubuntu1 removed?
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> dunno, that has been removed..let me add it and fix it again
<nixternal> crimsun: would it be better if I just added every ubuntu change in there since the beginning?
<crimsun> nixternal: that's not necessary
<nixternal> just go to 0.7.4-0
<LaserJock> nixternal: having fun yet? :-)
<nixternal> always!
<fbond> crimsun, thanks again for your help on that
<crimsun> fbond: np
<nixternal> http://librarian.launchpad.net/5321023/smb4k_0.7.5-1.debdiff
<nixternal> lets try that one
<nixternal> it is either "3rd times a charm" or "3 strikes your out"
<nixternal> hopefully the former
<LaserJock> nixternal: what is that a debdiff of exactly?
<crimsun> nixternal: close.
<crimsun> nixternal: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35817/
<nixternal> crimsun: i was debdiffing it against the wrong .dsc
* nixternal is an e.tard
<nixternal> heh, i am a moron..can't believe I just did that
<nixternal> i take it you have the debdiff already, so no need for me to upload a FOURTH one :)
<crimsun> see feisty-changes.
* nixternal bows to the mastah
<LaserJock> well done nixternal :-)
<fbond> www.bookpool.com has 50% off O'Reilly books, if anyone's interested (sorry for the spam)
<nixternal> heh, LaserJock far from well done, I over cooked that one
<nixternal> an easy one at that. i must need some food. my brain isn't working yet, if it ever has
<LaserJock> nixternal: you're on feisty-changes though, that's rockin'
<ailean> has anyone here taken lpi exams? i'm wondering how important it is that a book is 2+ years old. should i get something more recent or do the contents of this certification always apply?
<nixternal> LaserJock: i have been there quite a few times already this release cycle, as well as some Dapper and Edgy ones
<LaserJock> nixternal: you da man ;-)
<nixternal> i only wish
<geser> shawarma: since you are a motu now you could ACK bug 74108 :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74108 in autopsy "Please sync autopsy (2.08-1) from Debian sid" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74108
<crimsun> he just needs to state which Debian component it's in.
<shawarma> geser: Heh.. I though LaserJock went through them already. :-)
<shawarma> geser: Thanks for pointing it out.
<shawarma> crimsun: Oh, right.
<LaserJock> shawarma: not all of them
<LaserJock> I only had time for a few
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i should have never upgraded the oldworld to edgy
<shawarma> LaserJock: Oh, ok. That's quite alright. I just thought I had checked them all, but clearly I missed autopsy.
<shawarma> crimsun: Any idea why setting the debian component is needed? It seems kind of redundant.
<crimsun> shawarma: just policy
<crimsun> shawarma: (contrib/non-free have a separate sync param from main)
<LaserJock> it also is a good check if items have switched compenent
<LaserJock> I had about 6 or so science packages change from non-free to main but we still had them in Multiverse
<shawarma> LaserJock: Oh, nice. Anything interested?
<shawarma> LaserJock: Er... s/interested/interesting/, of course.
<LaserJock> not particularly
<LaserJock> it's I also found packages that had moved section
<shawarma> LaserJock: Does that matter?
<LaserJock> I think cjwatson thought I was a moron when I asked if I could file bugs to have them changed in Ubuntu ;-)
<LaserJock> it does when you are trying to keep track of 450+ packages
<LaserJock> most of MOTU Science listing/tracking is done by section (science, math, electronics)
<shawarma> LaserJock: Really? Where/how do you use the section info?
<shawarma> LaserJock: Oh, ok. I didn't know there were such sections.
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> so I don't have to maintain the list of those
<shawarma> LaserJock: Seems kind of strange for a packge to migrate between them, though.
<LaserJock> I only have to manually do the ones that aren't in those 3 sections
<LaserJock> well, it's been about 2 years since the sections were set
<LaserJock> lots can happen in 2 years
<shawarma> LaserJock: I suppose. 
<shawarma> LaserJock: Why did you have to bother Colin with it? Is that info maintained anywhere apart from the section field in the control file of each upload?
<LaserJock> in the archive overrides
<LaserJock> notice that when you upload a package in section science into Universe it becomes universe/science
<LaserJock> when the packages go through NEW the overrides are set
<shawarma> I see. So in any subsequent uploads the section does not actually matter?
<shawarma> Well, of course I shouldn't just change it for fun, but it will not affect anything?
<geser> how do we get gaim-encryption updated in feisty? Ubuntu has 3.0+beta5-2 while debian unstable has 3.0~beta7-1. fake sync?
<LaserJock> shawarma: you might have to ask ubuntu-archive to change it
<crimsun> geser: yes, fakesync
<LaserJock> geser: do they have different .orig.tar.gz?
<jdong> waaah they have beta7 now?
<jdong> how can I freakin track a backport of all the gaim plugins when they change under me while I'm working on them? :D
<geser> LaserJock: I haven't checked but I would assume ("New upstream release" in the last changelog entry)
<geser> crimsun: would 3.0+beta7-0ubuntu1 be ok?
<crimsun> geser: yes, we'll have to use that
<shawarma> LaserJock: Right. Ok.
<ryanakca> hmm... a program uses qmake-qt4 to build... how would I use cdbs with that?
<Adri2000> LaserJock: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3706
<shawarma> ryanakca: Google tells me that gnudoq does that. You could take a look at that.
<shawarma> ajmitch: Are you doing the apt-move merge yourself?
<Sp4rKy> siretart: i think you're not here, but i would some more info about the cron of REVU. The python scripts only contains 10lines and i don't understand how i should use it (param ?)
<ryanakca> oh crud... apt-get source is segfaulting like crazy
<shawarma> ryanakca: Huh? Only source or also update?
<ryanakca> only source... update runs fine
<ryanakca> shawarma: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35844/
<superm1> crimsun, I obtained a copy of the agreement that Axel has obtained on the ivtv firmware.  I emailed you it.
<ryanakca> edgy on top of that
<shawarma> ryanakca: Weirdness. You should fetch the ddebs and make a proper backtrace.
<ryanakca> ? fetch the ddebs and make a proper backtrace...
<shawarma> Are you familiar with ddebs?
<ryanakca> might be... 
<ryanakca> but probably am not
<shawarma> ryanakca: Debug debs?
<ryanakca> nope
<crimsun> superm1: excellent, thanks
<superm1> ryanakca,  This explains them: http://lwn.net/Articles/201302/
<superm1> crimsun, So after reading through theat
<superm1> what do you gather?
<crimsun> superm1: yes, placing the text in debian/copyright is proper, but the final call will be made by ubuntu-archive
<superm1> Ok.
<shawarma> ryanakca: The archive builds a non-stripped version of every package to help in generating backtraces with the symbols inserted.
<superm1> i want to hold off and get the end user license firmware agreement too
<superm1> and distribute that too
<crimsun> superm1: right
<superm1> make sure it is shown before the package is installed
<superm1> should i still do this as an installer then?  or directly ship the firmware since hauppauge gave me the go with this thing?
<crimsun> superm1: do you have explicit written permission for the firmware to be redistributed from Canonical-hosted servers?
<guibis> has someone now how package with java ?
<superm1> its not indicated where it is to be hosted from.  the agreement just indicates that it is allowed to be redistributed to end users..
<superm1> but even if i get direct permission to host it on just canonical servers, isnt that against ubuntu's creed?
<crimsun> superm1: not afaik
<guibis> ping doko 
<crimsun> superm1: the step now is to obtain explicit written permission to distribute the firmware from the archive (and its mirrors)
<crimsun> superm1: if that cannot be done, then the installer method must suffice
<superm1> Okay, once my hauppauge contact gets back to me with the end user firmware agreement then i'll check about that.
<crimsun> great, thanks
<tsmithe> ping LaserJock
<ryanakca> shawarma: I'm getting segfault in update as well now...
<ajmitch> shawarma: well yes, I am doing the merges that are under my name
<ryanakca> shawarma: I wonder if it has anything to do with my using my home-built 2.6.19 kernel
<shawarma> ajmitch: Ok. I just started from the top and yours came up.
* ajmitch has the merge done, just wanted to ask mvo about something
<shawarma> ajmitch: Is the "policy" still that we ask here before doing each other's merges? I'm just curious because someone did almost all my merges and noone even pang me.
<ajmitch> shawarma: yes, that's what you should do
<ajmitch> even notification after the fact is better than nothing
<tsmithe> ah well; LaserJock - I'm going to sleep now, but I saw your comments, and uploaded another version based on them. if you could take another look that would be fantastic. thanks. the url is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3707
<ryanakca> shawarma: all apt-* commands are dead here...
<shawarma> ryanakca: Only them?
<shawarma> ryanakca: Seems a bit strange.
<sladen> Ubuntu wins by not having a "maintainer lock".  Lets not start trying to enforce one
<ryanakca> shawarma: it, and pbuilder... maybe some other things...
<ryanakca> aptitude, adept, all things based on apt... 
<shawarma> ryanakca: Ah, ok. If pbuilder does it too, my your-/var/lib/dpkg/*-might-be-messed-up theory is void.
<ryanakca> I don't get segfault in particular with pbuilder.. but It does crash
<tsmithe> well... if anyone else want to take a look that would also be super
<tsmithe> night
<ajmitch> sladen: it's not a lock, it's a matter of not duplicating work & annoying everyone
<tsmithe> LaserJock (or anyone else who has looked or would like to look at asoundconf-gtk), i have made a further couple of changes, and the url is now http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3709
<tsmithe> now i really am /away sleep
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-08
<shawarma> slomo: Is it ok if I request a sync of last-exit? 
<ailean> composite-by-default has been deferred? :(
<joejaxx> does anyone know how i can pull the dependencies of packages that are being downloaded with apt-get -d?
<joejaxx> apt-get -d --reinstall* that is
<LaserJock> ailean: where did you see that?
<chillywilly> woah, lots of updates for edgy
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/composite-by-default
<chillywilly> wassup wit dat? ;)
<ailean> LaserJock, check https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/composite-by-default
<joejaxx> that spec says drafting
<ailean> yes gnomefreak  :)
<joejaxx> drafting not deferred :)
<ailean> it changed
<joejaxx> oh ok
<ailean> who changed it :)
<joejaxx> ailean: i do not know
<joejaxx> rmjb: :D
<Burgwork> unfortunately, there is no way to know
<ailean> everything is okay
<ailean> a flap about nothing
<rmjb> hey joejaxx
<ailean> :P
<joejaxx> :P
<ailean> i'm happier
<joejaxx> does anyone know tha answer to my question? :)
<joejaxx> i do not know if it can be done or not
<Adri2000> LaserJock: I added the man page and made the changes to the *.install to homebank
<LaserJock> darn, I was hoping it was deferred
<joejaxx> LaserJock: lol!
<LaserJock> Adri2000: cool
<rmjb> joejaxx: I must have missed the question... though if it's hard core packaging I might not be able to answer it
<ailean> lol
<Burgwork> LaserJock: so was I
<joejaxx> rmjb: 16:06 < joejaxx> does anyone know how i can pull the dependencies of packages that are being downloaded with apt-get -d?
<joejaxx> 16:06 < joejaxx> apt-get -d --reinstall* that is
<Adri2000> LaserJock: I hope you will advocate it now :)
<ailean> LaserJock, not a fan of the aul xgl stuff then?
<LaserJock> ailean: not by default, no
<joejaxx> rmjb: ie i want the packages AND their dependencies in the cache whether they are installed already or not
<ailean> LaserJock, what about a choice at the first startup?
<LaserJock> ailean: won't happen
<joejaxx> rmjb: i do not think you can do it
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what are you trying to do?
<ailean> LaserJock, you have to allow a certain level of graphics into things but maintain the option to have a simple window manager too
<joejaxx> LaserJock: pull the dependencies of five packages and the packages themselves to the apt cache
<LaserJock> ailean: I can imagine a "Bling? No Bling?" question in the installer, that's about it.
<joejaxx> but they are already installed which is why i used the --reinstall application flag
<LaserJock> ailean: the level og graphics we have now is insufficient?
<LaserJock> s/og/of/
<LaserJock> it took me 2 minutes it install the beryl wobbly windows
<LaserJock> if it was officially in the repos it'd take me 1 min
<ailean> LaserJock, took me 2 mins too
<LaserJock> I don't think that's a whole lot to ask
<crimsun> 1 minute?
<crimsun> which X driver is this?
<LaserJock> can't remember
<LaserJock> but I just put in the beryl repo in sources.list
<LaserJock> and installed it
<joejaxx> i installed it and used it for a week i have not used it at all since those two weeks
<ailean> LaserJock, that's all i did
<LaserJock> and then relogged in
<ailean> LaserJock, worked no probs
<crimsun> it's pretty horrible on this i915gm (using i810-modesetting)
<LaserJock> I don't see why we need to make it any easier at this point
<ailean> i think this kind of thing is necessary to convince people that ubuntu is a viable alternative
<LaserJock> I certainly hope not
<ailean> people are shallow. they need bling
<LaserJock> bling that works maybe
<ailean> lol
<ailean> mine works
<joejaxx> ailean: i think this project is more than just attracting users
<crimsun> corey has been doing a lot of bug triaging wrt compiz
<ailean> what is it about joejaxx?
<crimsun> not sure about beryl
<Burgwork> attracting users with bling is great. We are going to keep them with things that work
<Burgwork> crimsun: nothing on beryl. Not yet in the repos
<LaserJock> I'd rather not have them for 10 minutes and then say "this stuff sucks, I'm not using Linux ever again"
<joejaxx> ailean: everything that ubuntu is about
<Burgwork> ailean: please see my last blog post on planet
<ailean> joejaxx, i.e. on the cutting edge of debian?
<ailean> Burgwork, a link?
<ailean> oh
<ailean> sorry
<joejaxx> ailean: minix does not have 5 million users but it was the start of a revolution
<joejaxx> example: ^
<LaserJock> it's about a stable, usable, accessible, and open source computing environment, IMO
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yeap
<LaserJock> if we can do all that and have bling then I'm all for it
<joejaxx> ailean: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
<ailean> Burgwork, what's your name in real life?
<crimsun> (it's Burgwork!)
<ailean> hehehe
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i just hope we do not turn into vista
<ailean> i honestly have had not one problem running beryl
<LaserJock> that's great, really
<ailean> ok, got it
<LaserJock> it's just that we can't give that to everybody
<crimsun> particularly when it doesn't work even on the level of the standard window manager
<jdong> one day, compiz/beryl will have FUNCTIONAL focus-stealing prevention
<jdong> then the world will be happy and there will be peace at last
<joejaxx> jdong: lol
<crimsun> (and yes, I know it's a complaint and that my time would be better spent implementing said things, but hey, I have an entire subsystem to worry about)
<jdong> and hopefully by then we get a new administration in the US?
<jdong> and not mr flying ticket counters
<Burgwork> ailean: Corey Burger
<Burgwork> http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=115
<ailean> Burgwork, got it :) thanks
<Burgwork> hey crimsun
<ailean> Burgwork, i have to say, i find none of the things you say true about Beryl - maybe so with compiz
<crimsun> 'lo Burgwork 
<LaserJock> I mean, the thing I'm looking at is metacity (stable, mature, window manager) vs. compiz/beryl (unstable, blingy, not really a window manager yet)
<Burgwork> ailean: when it is in the repos, I will test it
<LaserJock> that's the other thing
<ailean> Burgwork, I can move apps from one viewport to another using the same commands and when i maximise it does so to that viewport
<LaserJock> beryl isn't even in Universe right now
<Burgwork> indeed
<ailean> Burgwork, the ONE problem i have had is keeping kaffeine on top of other windows
<LaserJock> and we're supposed to get it in Main and default by like March?
<jdong> LaserJock: what's stopping it from being Universe?
<jdong> just out of curiousity
<LaserJock> people packaging it
<Burgwork> ailean: it is not hard to write a WM, it is hard to write one that works in most cases
<imbrandon> jdong: it includes mesa cruft
<jdong> LaserJock: and why aren't there people packaging it?
<imbrandon> moins all
<jdong> imbrandon: ok, I like that answer better :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: ! :D
<crimsun> it what?!
<Burgwork> jdong: apparently several have tried
<LaserJock> jdong: they'd rather work on it
<joejaxx> hello
<jdong> imbrandon: hey brandon :)
<ryanakca> shawarma: hmm... where do I get ddeb? and just in case it's a corrupt /var/lib/dpkg-whatever... how do I check
<crimsun> mesa cruft? goodness. that's nearly as bad as including x server code.
<joejaxx> Burgwork: your full ircnick sounds like the name of a country
<imbrandon> heh
<joejaxx> Burgwork: :)
<xerxas> I'm using feisty with ndiswrapper, i updated the system, it updated the kernel from 2.6.17 to 2.6.19 but didn't installed ndiswrapper-utils-1.9 and my wireless card wasn't working , should I report this ? 
<jdong> the Beryl guys seem to already have some degree of packaging... is it not possible that Ubuntu helps them out with that?
<Burgwork> joejaxx: it is a deliberate corruption of Burgundy, so I am not surprised
<ailean> Burgwork, oh, and when I flick TO beryl, the windows default to the top of the screen instead of below the top bar
<crimsun> shawarma: in pitti's dir on people.uc.
<crimsun> shawarma: sorry
<joejaxx> Burgwork: ah! oh ok
<jdong> if spinny cubes is really such a goal for feisty it wouldn't be a bad idea to put some priority on it :-/
<crimsun> ryanakca: in pitti's dir on people.uc
<jdong> (not trying to deride on anyone's efforts... apologies to anyone if that's the case)
<imbrandon> jdong: we have, infact __I__ have, but its not of the quality that keybuk and others will accept, read back the logs in #ubuntu-devel last week
<jdong> imbrandon: I see, thanks for the info. I had no idea
<imbrandon> and by quality i dont mean the packing , i mean the upstream code
<xerxas> crimsun,  ?
<xerxas> you're working on the kernel ? 
<crimsun> yes, all several million lines.
<xerxas> :)
<imbrandon> heya crimsun sorry i dident see your PM untill now, you still need that done ?
<crimsun> while asleep and walking uphill both ways.
<imbrandon> hahaha
<ajmitch> but you only wrote about 1 million or so of those
<xerxas> on packaging the kernel 
<xerxas> have you seen my question about kernel update vs ndiswrapper-utils ? 
<LaserJock> Burgwork: do you know if drafters can/should set the target milestone on their specs?
<Burgwork> LaserJock: I don't know. try
<Burgwork> it might only be the distro drivers themselves
<LaserJock> my specs always seem to get left in the dust
<crimsun> imbrandon: yes, please
<imbrandon> crimsun: sure one second
<crimsun> xerxas: fresh install of 7.04 or dist-upgrade(s)?
<xerxas> dist-upgrade
<imbrandon> crimsun: btw you or anyone else for that matter can probably get ahold of my easier on jabber now a days ( just FYI incase this comes up again etc )
<crimsun> xerxas: that's a known issue
<xerxas> I do updates quite frequently 
<xerxas> crimsun, k
<Burgwork> LaserJock: the way to not get them left in the dust is to promote the crap out of them. Get somebody on the core team to review them
<ailean> Burgwork, maximising windows does not put them under the bottom panel, the window title has always updated as far as I can see, windows are always raised visually, the window list is always there, updating panel applets still draw over full screen apps, windows to sneak over to the next viewport by 5-10 pixels, but this doesn't mean that they are *in* the other viewport
<ailean> just to give my opinion on beryl :)
<Burgwork> ailean: cool, but until I see that package, those bugs stand. Besides, compiz upstream is far more sane than beryl
<ryanakca> crimsun: I'm guessing that people.uc = people.ubuntu.com? either that or people.uc is on a super super slow connection
<joejaxx> ryanakca: people.ubuntu.com :D
<ryanakca> lol
<crimsun> I abbreviate domains
<ailean> Burgwork, fair enough :)
<LaserJock> Burgwork: it's been reviewed, it's been sitting in "Pending Review" for a while
<Burgwork> LaserJock: linky?
<ryanakca> crimsun: why not use http://www.ubuntu.com/ instead of people.ubuntu.com ?
<ryanakca> crimsun: they both give the same thing ;)
<LaserJock> Burgwork: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-menus-completion
<ryanakca> nevermind :)
<crimsun> because historically www.do and people.do have been separated.
<Burgwork> LaserJock: then you need to poke ogra
<LaserJock> Burgwork: personally I don't really see the point for community people
<LaserJock> specs seem basically to be the way Canonical people justify their time
<Burgwork> LaserJock: for getting specs approved? for very good reason. Those specs show the community what we are working on
<LaserJock> and it works well that way
<LaserJock> but whether it is approved or not I'm going to implement it
<LaserJock> so why all the hassle
<Burgwork> the marketing team  (read: me) is going to talk about specs more
<Burgwork> LaserJock: you sound very beat down
<imbrandon> with composite-by-default defered PLEASE tell me binary drivers is axed
<ryanakca> oh crud... shawarma said to install the ddebs, so that I could do a proper backtrace, but how am I supposed to do that when apt-*, aptitude, adept, synaptic, kynaptic, etc keep on segfaulting? or did he mean install just the ddebs for apt?
<Burgwork> imbrandon: nah, just something odd
<imbrandon> hrm
<LaserJock> Burgwork: ah well, I almost joined Jorge but thought better of it
<Burgwork> hmm, troublesome
<Burgwork> I almost joined him as well
<imbrandon> does anyone know of a good LVM overview website / page / document , right off hand before i go googleing
<LaserJock> I think jdub's latest blog is a lot of it ;-)
<ailean> imbrandon, it's not deferred
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I'm not surprised, really
<Burgwork> LaserJock: the burnout thing? yes, good read
<ryanakca> imbrandon: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/ ?
<imbrandon> sounds like a good place to start
<ryanakca> and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Volume_Manager_(Linux)
<ailean> bedtime
<ailean> night all
<ryanakca> night ailean
<LaserJock> cya
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I just implement stuff whether it's approved or not
<LaserJock> yeah, that's sort of what I'm going with
<joejaxx> anyone here experienced greatly with apt and ebian?
<joejaxx> debian*
<LaserJock> but I get really stressed out over these specs
<LaserJock> and it seem like for minimal gain
<crimsun> you're not going to like teaching, then.
<crimsun> 99% of what you'll do as a univ professor boils down to "being ignored"
<ajmitch> hence why crimsun spends all his waking hours on ubuntu
<crimsun> shhh.
<xerxas> I'm trying to compile tapioca sharp using cdbs, it uses a autogen.sh and I get this with pbuilder:
<xerxas> chmod a+x /tmp/buildd/libtapioca-cil-0.3.9svn20061207/./configure
<xerxas> chmod: cannot access `/tmp/buildd/libtapioca-cil-0.3.9svn20061207/./configure': No such file or directory
<crimsun> you probably have to bootstrap/autogen
<xerxas> how can I say in debian/rules that we need to run autogen.sh before ./configure ? 
<xerxas> crimsun, bootstrap/autogen ? what do you mean ? 
<crimsun> does configure after the checkout?
<crimsun> exist ^
<xerxas> from what i've seen, projects like avahi uses autogen.sh but the source also gives configure 
<xerxas> crimsun, no, but some projects using autogen.sh does
<xerxas> tapioca-sharp doesn't 
<xerxas> I think that's my problem 
<xerxas> (I'm not in the default cdbs behaviour with autogen.sh) 
<xerxas> crimsun, what do you mean by "you probably have to bootstrap/autogen" ? 
<xerxas> using debootstrap ? instead of cdbs ? 
<crimsun> xerxas: if after a checkout configure does not exist, you'll need to invoke whatever creates it. Sometimes (normally) there's an autogen.sh or bootstrap script that does so, but you can always do it manually.
<fernando> hi all
<xerxas> If I run autogen.sh it creates a configure 
<xerxas> crimsun, can I run autogen.sh manually not within a pbuilder ? 
<xerxas> hi fernando  
<crimsun> certainly
<xerxas> crimsun, ok , thanks, I find this weired 
<xerxas> I mean , it's strange to create a configure with a script if it doesn't depend on the current environment (hardware ?)  
<zul> yo
<imbrandon> ello zul 
<zul> hiya imbrandon 
<ajmitch> hi zul 
<plugwash> the autotools generate a horriblly long detection script based on what your package needs
<plugwash> running that detection script detects if the system the build is being done on has what your package needs
<plugwash> i agree its strange but thats how autotools works
<Lathiat> xerxas: autogen.sh/bootstrap.sh is for SVN that has no ./configure
<Lathiat> xerxas: we provide autogen.sh/bootstrap.sh in case you want to edit configure
<xerxas> Lathiat,  ? what do you mean by we ? 
<Lathiat> xerxas: i'm one of the avahi devs :)
<xerxas> plugwash, isn't configure doing the same ? 
<xerxas> Lathiat,  ok :) 
<plugwash> configure is the horriblly long detection script generated by autotools
<Lathiat> wonderful, wonderful autotools
<plugwash> i think the reason some projects don't keep configure in thier cvs/svn repositries is that having autogenererated files in your version control system sucks for merging
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> we dont keep configure in svn
<Lathiat> no need really
<Lathiat> the tarballs have them, tho
<Lathiat> and it just makes a mess of diffs
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> so I should run autgen.sh before doing a dh_make , like if it was in the upstream distribution ?
<plugwash> i doubt it really matters whether you put it in the upstream tarball or the diff.gz
<bddebian> Heya gang
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> need to go sleep 
<xerxas> 3 A.M here, work tomorrow , a bit crazy :)
<cmpalmer> jdong: keybuk doesn't seem to be in #ubuntu-devel
<jdong> cmpalmer: it's late
<jdong> :)
<crimsun> I wouldn't expect him to be, since he's in the UK.
* crimsun pokes cmpalmer with a FRIGGIN STICK
<jdong> crimsun: deep breaths?
<crimsun> it's ok, we're in the same LUG.
<jdong> :)
<crimsun> cmpalmer: catch him during normal UK business hours
<ajmitch> amazing, someone that's met crimsun in person?
<crimsun> he can attest to my sharp pointy teeth.
<ajmitch> cmpalmer: crimsun actually exists, then?
<LaserJock> run away!
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I too am interested, I'm not so sure
<bddebian> So how do we request packages from Debian that are not in the archive currently?
<jdong> bddebian: staple a Ben Franklin to an envelope and mail to the address I PM'ed you
<jdong> ;-)
<bddebian> Heh
<cmpalmer> cmpalmer: yes. I've even seen him eat
<cmpalmer> damn tab-completion
<cmpalmer> :/
<cmpalmer> ajmitch: he is real. he eats food
<crimsun> he hasn't seen me sleep, though.
<cmpalmer> this is true :/
<LaserJock> he's a darn robot I tell you!
<LaserJock> he doesn't sleep!
* bddebian just downloads and dputs since no-one is answering him ;-P
* ajmitch watches ftpmasters yell at bddebian 
<bddebian> F' 'em ;-P
<bddebian> ajmitch: So how do I do it "properly" man?
<ajmitch> you don't
<ajmitch> packages that are new in debian get stuck into a special NEW queue that gets reviewed when an ftpmaster gets bored
<ajmitch> up until DebianImportFreeze, anyway
<bddebian> ajmitch: Not new in Debian homey, I mean like gnumach and mig ;-)
<ajmitch> oh, noone wants those in
<bddebian> I do :-)
<ajmitch> you're special though
<ajmitch> they're probably blacklisted or just unbuilt
<plugwash> or need a binary upload which it seems hardly anyone can do because they are self compiling compilers
<bddebian> ajmitch: Probably, so how do I ask to get them unblacklisted?
<LaserJock> find out what Scott or Colin really want for their birthday
<LaserJock> PS3? ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: ask?
<bddebian> I am
<ajmitch> you know who to ask
<bddebian> But I don't wanna :)
<ajmitch> then I can't help
<bddebian> I've missed you honey
<LaserJock> ahh, the good old days
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you mean when everyone hugged each other & ponies ran free in the field?
* LaserJock sighs
<LaserJock> the good old days
<LaserJock> "run free pony, run FREE!"
<lotusleaf> omg ponies!
<bddebian> "a stallion needs to run.. And run free.."
* bddebian wonders if anyone remembers what's thats from
<ajmitch> we may all be too young
<bddebian> Oh man..
<ajmitch> bddebian: don't worry, I'll be offline for the weekend, so you won't have to put up with me
<bddebian> ajmitch: Bah, I love you man
<LaserJock> hmm, that's an interesting hostmask
<ajmitch> no you don't, admit it
<bddebian> I do
* ajmitch is mean & heartless
<bddebian> And I'm growing more fond of Australia lately too ;-)
<LaserJock> hah
<ajmitch> it comes from dealign with php all day long
<ajmitch> ew, nasty
<bddebian> What's nasty?
<ajmitch> australia
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is it web app kind of php?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: quite
<ajmitch> LaserJock: CRM web app
* LaserJock isn't sure what all people use php for
<bddebian> ajmitch: Why because they don't want Sharia law?
<ajmitch> no, because it's full of australians
<bddebian> hehe
* jdong molds a statue of RMS out of cheesecake and string cheese
* bddebian vomits
* LaserJock eats it
<lotusleaf> jdong: does the statue pick its own foot and eat it?
<bddebian> Holy crap is nethack takign forever to eat
<jdong> lotusleaf: no, it's lecturing me about my nvidia drivers
<bddebian> lotusleaf: haha
<lotusleaf> jdong: wouldn't it be funny if rms had a secret bunker where he ran nvidia and danced with an ipod all while laughing like a lunatic?
<bddebian> Oh crap that struck me funny jdong
<jdong> lol
<bddebian> My wife is sitting here calling me a total freaking geek because I'm laughing so hard
<jdong> lol
<jdong> hysterically laughing while having an IRC client open tends to freak out the non-nerds 
<bddebian> yeah
<ajmitch> bddebian: you have irc there when your wife is around?
<bddebian> But she's reading over my shoulder and wondering wtf I'm laughing about :-)
<crimsun> no wonder you married folk are so bitter :-)
* ajmitch is going to a wedding tomorrow
<bddebian> haha
<ajmitch> not my own, of course
* ajmitch has no time for life outside of irc
<bddebian> "nethack is takign forever to eat"?? WTF was I talking about? Sheesh
* ajmitch just assumed the worst
<bddebian> s/eat/build/
<LaserJock> yeah, I was wondering
<LaserJock> didn't want to say anything, thought maybe he's started eating Ubuntu too
<bddebian> Man, no mercy in here tonight
<crimsun> you should be used to it. You're married.
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> I think my wife wanted to start an "Ubuntu widows support group"
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Motu-aholics Anonymous?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I was thinking of a "You know you're and Ubuntu addict if:" wiki page
<LaserJock> s/and/an/
<ajmitch> "You fly halfway across the world to meet up with fellow MOTUs for a drink & a few specs"
<LaserJock> sleep seems very optional
<ajmitch> who needs it?
<ajmitch> bad news, LaserJock 
<ajmitch> I'm going a whole weekend without my computer
<LaserJock> forget the seasons but know the release schedule by heart
<ajmitch> feb 8th = feature freeze & uvf
<ajmitch> dec 21st = debian import freeze
* ajmitch is sad
<crimsun> motu superstars!
<ajmitch> don't say any more, I'll realise how addicted I am
<crimsun> it's probably a bad sign that I have LP URLs memorized.
<bddebian> Shit no .desktop file :-(
<ajmitch> crimsun: well, a sign that LP's UI sucks
<VoX> crimsun: a few of my friends work for LP
<jdong> crimsun: lol
<jdong> crimsun: well, it's worse when you know bug numbers BEFORE ubotu comes back with the blurb
<LaserJock> you look at a new Core Duo2 laptop and think how much faster pbuilder will unpack
<crimsun> I always chuckle when I see Ubugtu announce bugs that are status rejected. 9/10 times seb has already poked.
<jdong> LaserJock: didn't I plead tmpfs to you the other day?
<LaserJock> yeah, yeah
<jdong> LaserJock: seriously consider it :)
<LaserJock> I think lvm+sbuild might work
<jdong> LaserJock: mount tmpfs onto /var/cache/pbuilder/builds
<jdong> LaserJock: and allocate some swap
<jdong> LaserJock: it's really worth it :)
<ajmitch> ok, back in a few days
<bddebian> Enjoy ajmitch
<crimsun> cya ajmitch 
<imbrandon> later ajmitch 
<LaserJock> ajmitch: don't go!
<LaserJock> :(
<joejaxx> hello all
<imbrandon> heya joejaxx 
<joejaxx> hello imbrandon 
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon, joejaxx
<imbrandon> moins bddebian 
<LaserJock> bddebian: and you didn't even get yelled at :-)
<bddebian> Hehe, yeah
<joejaxx> hello
* joejaxx is trying to build a debian install cd
<joejaxx> i figured the only way to get those packages
<joejaxx> was getting the apt-cache from a chroot
<joejaxx> there is no other way
<joejaxx> funstuff
* joejaxx must be the party crasher lol :\
<rmjb> off to bed
<rmjb> g'night all
* joejaxx goes back to idling
<bddebian> joejaxx: Nah, we're just sad that ajmitch left us :-)
<crimsun> python-lame? hmm
<bddebian> hehe
<joejaxx> oh ok
<crimsun> joejaxx: but thank goodness we still have the motu trinity present!
<joejaxx> crimsun: lol
<joejaxx> who is that?
<crimsun> bddebian, imbrandon, and LaserJock.
<bddebian> Stop it.. I have been useless :-(
<crimsun> that makes the rest of us less than useless. Hmm.
<bddebian> Oh BS
<bddebian> Hmm, where is he seeing an attal-themes-medieval source package?
<bddebian> Feisty maybe?
<crimsun> pretty certain
<joejaxx> crimsun: the alt disc for feisty works
<joejaxx> i was happy about that
<crimsun> joejaxx: 20061205/xubuntu?
<joejaxx> the regular one
<bddebian> Hmm, packages.u.c doesn't show it
<joejaxx> maxillian said on the ml he was goingi to test the powerpc
<joejaxx> going*
<joejaxx> crimsun: the powerpc build that is
<bddebian> Sheesh, finally
<crimsun> joejaxx: interesting, seeing how i386/daily (20061205) failed utterly on my hardware
<joejaxx> crimsun: i will download the that build tonight and test it
<joejaxx> crimsun: 05 is herd1? what about 07?
<crimsun> 05 was the Herd 1 candidate
<joejaxx> oh ok
* joejaxx downloads that one
<bddebian> Damnit I just built njplot for no reason :-(
<imbrandon> gah
<imbrandon> anyone seen this error before ?
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35884/
<bddebian> Low on disk space?
<crimsun> that's a faq
<bddebian> What'd you call me? ;-P
<imbrandon> lol
<crimsun> an old married man.
<imbrandon> does that mean the mem limit in apt.conf is too low ?
<imbrandon> ahh rock on, APT::Cache-Limit 12582912;
<imbrandon> in apt.conf fixes it :)
* imbrandon is happy now
* imbrandon is trying to migrate a debian stable box to sid then edgy
<imbrandon> hopefully it dont bork the box
<imbrandon> well so much for that
* imbrandon backsup and reinstalls
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<slomo> shawarma: if our changes can be dropped (what i would expect), just file a sync
<crimsun> slomo: any plans to package libmpcdec 1.2.4?
<slomo> well, i would do it after the weekend probably... but if you want to do it just do it :)
<crimsun> I'll look at it, but I probably won't get to it before you :)
<slomo> do you know if this fast seeking stuff in libmpcdec is just new api? or old api improved?
<crimsun> I don't know offhand; it's purportedly fully backward compatible with SV7, but whether the API has changed I haven't checked
<slomo> it's backward compatible, yes... just want to know if all our applications can take advantage of it without any work ;)
<crimsun> yeah, that's one thing I'd investigate
<slomo> hm, gst plugin should work instantly as it uses mpcdec functions for seeking
<slomo> nice
<crimsun> well that covers like 1/3 of all major cases :), the other ones being mplayer and vlc ;)
<slomo> i would be surprised if vlc didn't use the functions that are already there for seeking ;) for mplayer it wouldn't surprise me
<crimsun> slomo: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35891/ is a nice summary
<slomo> yay
<slomo> abi incompatible but no soname change
<slomo> lovely
<slomo> and set_seeking is probably needed to tell the lib to do either fast or normal seeking?
<crimsun> yep.
<slomo> crimsun: are there more incompatibilities when comparing the public headers? and i expect those removed functions to be in no public header... right?
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: are you a "master of revu" ? :p
<Sp4rKy> i'm installing revu2 on my personnal server
<Sp4rKy> and it's a bit complicated
<Sp4rKy> i don't really understand how the cron script should work
<LaserJock> siretart and sistpoty are the guys who wrote it
<LaserJock> they are your best bet
<Sp4rKy> i know
<Sp4rKy> but they're not here now :p
<Sp4rKy> and hi LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hi :-)
<Kagou> hi
<Sp4rKy> hi Kagou 
<Kagou> hey Sp4rKy 
<Sp4rKy> how are you ?
* Fujitsu grumbles at bug 43150...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in maxima "[SRU]  maxima frontends fail to connect" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<Sp4rKy> siretart: please ping me when you're back :)
<Kagou> Sp4rKy: fine :)
<siretart> Sp4rKy: sorry, revu2 is nowhere finished. it needs a lot of code
<siretart> but I told you that before
<Sp4rKy> siretart: yep
<Sp4rKy> but i tought is usuable
<Sp4rKy> isn't it ?
<siretart> no. it isn't
<siretart> not at all. yet.
<Sp4rKy> k :|
<Sp4rKy> siretart: so i'll reup revu1 :)
<siretart> ok
<Sp4rKy> and may disturb you again about conf :D
<Sp4rKy> siretart: i've got strange error about conf file :
<Sp4rKy> http://revu.dunnewind.net/index.py
<Sp4rKy> NoSectionError: No section: 'database'
<Sp4rKy> whereas i've it in my conf file
<Admiral_Chicago> waht the EoL going to be for Feisty?
<Admiral_Chicago> what is the*
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: 18 months from release
<Burgundavia> october 2008
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: okay thanks, i thought so.
<Burgundavia> here to server
<Burgundavia> serve, rather
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: just updating a wiki.https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes#preview
<Admiral_Chicago> err no
<Admiral_Chicago> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes
<Burgundavia> rock
<Sp4rKy> siretart: it seems to work, but i had to hardcode some conf var 
<Admiral_Chicago> i changed it, actually release date is more important than the EoL
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: nixternal must be getting mad at me, I've edited like 6 wiki pages today that get emailed to him about updates
<Admiral_Chicago> or he love me for it, not sure yet
<elkbuntu> doesnt nixternal get mailed about just about every wiki page update?
<Burgundavia> think so
<Burgundavia> ajmitch used to be that insane as well
<StevenK> Used to be?
<StevenK> :-P
<Riddell> Robert Carr online?
<Admiral_Chicago> elkbuntu: i believe so
<Admiral_Chicago> everyone i've ever edited gets sent to him
<Admiral_Chicago> i think i bother him enough with Ubuntu Chicago  LoCo stuff
<Admiral_Chicago> :\
<dholbach> good morning
<shawarma> When doing a fakesync, when should I use <debian-version>build1 and when should I use <debian-version>ubuntu1 as the version string?
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<dholbach> hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> shawarma: Only use build1 if it is a rebuild of the current Ubuntu version.
<StevenK> Why a fakesync, though?
<StevenK> Just file a sync request, no?
<shawarma> StevenK: md5sum mismatch.
<shawarma> StevenK: ...due to conversion from bz2 to gz.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: A couple of days ago cjwatson and LaserJock told me to use build1 for a package that was being fakesynced..
<Fujitsu> Actually, that's probably not a bad idea.
<Fujitsu> Except... Hm...
<shawarma> Fujitsu: No, since if Debian has a new upstream next time we need to merge, it'll just get synced automatically.
<Fujitsu> No, it will still need manual action until there's a new upstream version, so build1 is inappropriate.
<Admiral_Chicago> dholbach: morning
<dholbach> hey Admiral_Chicago :)
<Admiral_Chicago> how is it going?
<shawarma> Fujitsu: I'll take it up with cjwatson. :-)
<Fujitsu> Good idea.
<Fujitsu> All my fake syncs already had ubuntu1, so I've not had to think about such things.
<Fujitsu> Evening, \sh.
<\sh> moins
<shawarma> Good morning, \sh.
<Fujitsu> Yay, some archive adminning is being done! With any luck, this means #43150 will be fixed, finally!
* Fujitsu celebrates.
<mneptok> Fujitsu: that bug has been marked "Won't Fix: irritates Fujitsu"
* Fujitsu attacks mnepto[nk] 
* Fujitsu taunts mneptok with a pony.
* mneptok weeps gently
* Fujitsu lashes mneptok gently.
<Fujitsu> (to a pole, which will be mounted above a fire)
* mneptok weeps ecstatically
<TheMuso> Is the procedure for requesting backports on the wiki anywhere?
<dholbach> should be on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<TheMuso> thanks
* dholbach hugs elkbuntu
* elkbuntu hugs dholbach
* mneptok continues licking himself in the corner
<elkbuntu> mneptok, i really do not need that sort of mental imagery within the hours before trying to sleep
* StevenK hands elkbuntu a mental eraser.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Just got a /msg from cjwatson. the build1 postfix for fakesyncs is the right way to do it. 
<Fujitsu> shawarma: OK, I would have debated that if it hadn't come from cjwatson.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Exactly. :-)
<mneptok> elkbuntu: you'll soon learn to be thankful for the "himself" ;)
<geser> fakesyncs should have -Xbuild1 instead of -XubuntuY?
<Fujitsu> geser: Apparently.
* StevenK notes a fakesync is different from a rebuild-only upload.
<shawarma> geser: Yes.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: As do I...
<shawarma> StevenK: Well, I suppose it's not *that* different. Fakesync is just a rebuild where you use an orig.tar.gz that's really no different from the one the Debian version was built with. It
<shawarma> 's usually only an md5sum mismatch or variations thereof.
<shawarma> Nothing has actually been changed. Just like a rebuild.
<StevenK> Fine. But the _reasons_ are different.
<geser> sometimes it's only a bad versioning
<Fujitsu> And note that a rebuild can be synced straight over, a fake sync cannot always.
<shawarma> StevenK: Indeed. and such differences are noted in the changelog.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: The thing is that if there's a new upstream version, the sync will be automatic and we don't have to do anything. If there's no upstream version, we'll do the merge manually. So in the former case, it's easier, in the latter case it's just like it always was. Is there really anything to be lost?
<shawarma> "If there's no upstream" should of course read "If there's no new upstream".
* dholbach hugs mneptok
<Fujitsu> shawarma: But a buildX implies that there needs to be NO manual intervention.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: True. I wonder what happens when the new diff.gz and .dsc is synced over from debian and the build deamons notice that the md5sum of the orig.tar.gz is off..
<StevenK> The upload is rejected
<shawarma> StevenK: It's a sync, not an upload per se.. Who gets notified?
<StevenK> ubuntu-archive, that is, the person actually doing the sync?
<shawarma> StevenK: I just checked with cjwatson again.
<shawarma> StevenK: The syncsource script is run by a human, so this particular error would not go uncaught. That's the first thing.
<StevenK> Yes, which is what I just said.
<shawarma> StevenK: Oh, yes. I was in another window /msg'ing with cjwatson. Sorry, I didn't notice.
<shawarma> StevenK: It was a bit unclear as to whether merges.ubuntu.com would handle things without 'ubuntu' in the version string, hence it's a bit unclear whether it would show up there.
<shawarma> StevenK: I dunno. I'll stick with -build1 for now. 
<shawarma> Question: Am I the only one who finds it tedious to have to ping the person who did the last merge of a package before you can go ahead and merge it again?
<Fujitsu> Is there a way I can get the maintainer field unclobbered for my packages?
<StevenK> Yup.
<StevenK> Kick infinity, since there is a whitelist.
<Fujitsu> OK! Thanks.
<shawarma> Huh?
<shawarma> How is the maintainer field clobbered?
<StevenK> During the build process on the buildds
<shawarma> StevenK: Oh, it removes the Debian maintainer or something?
<StevenK> It does not.
<shawarma> Then what?
<joejaxx> crimsun: yeah it gets stuck on "Starting PC Card Services"
<ssam> hello i have just uploaded my first package to revu http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3711
<joejaxx> ssam: nice :)
<ssam> now do i just wait for comments?
<joejaxx> well someone will review it comment
<joejaxx> it and comemnt*
<ssam> do i need to add it to a list on the wiki, or anything like that?
<joejaxx> i do not think so
<ssam> ok
<ssam> thanks
<joejaxx> ssam: you are most welcome
<dholbach> I'll add the OpenWeek sessions to MOTU/School too
<dholbach> any objections?
<dholbach> ok, done ;)
<joejaxx> :)
<mneptok> joejaxx: still smoking that rock?
<joejaxx> mneptok: lol!
<mneptok> oh, wait. you aren't an athlete. i think that's part of the equation.
<joejaxx> mneptok: lol
<mneptok> just thinking about that still causes me to actually lol irl
<joejaxx> haha
<mneptok> frickin' character.
<joejaxx> yeap :P
<joejaxx> bbl
<mneptok> he needs to be in the deepest, darkest part of texas, on a porch, shotgun on his lap, his wife (aunt lurleen) inside baking a pie
<elkbuntu> mneptok, your favourite bus driver?
<mneptok> elkbuntu: the very same
<elkbuntu> i so wish i had have been there for that
<\sh> do we have actually a method for the dependency crap between debians iceweasel/icedove and firefox/thunderbird?
<elkbuntu> then again, i was one of the ones lucky enough to get the palo alto detour
<mneptok> "my waaaaf wuz a May-yun ..."
<mneptok> s/my/mah/
<elkbuntu> please dont make me chortle bourbon
<shawarma> \sh: Are you going to be handling the merges with your name on them?
<\sh> shawarma: I wanted to
<\sh> but if you want take some :)
<shawarma> \sh: I'll probably do that. I'm still working my way down the list doing the ones with unfamiliar names on them. When I'm done with those, I'll just start from the top, and yours is the first one of those. :-)
<\sh> afterstep is a sync, apoo is a sync (synced today) avifile (sync) bacula is somewhat broken
<shawarma> \sh: ..and that one puzzles me, actually. It's afterstep. MoM says that this is your previous merge: http://merges.ubuntu.com/a/afterstep/afterstep_2.2.2-1ubuntu1.patch
<shawarma> Yes, I already did apoo. Don't know why. :-)
<\sh> shawarma: I merged it last time, but was a mistake
<shawarma> \sh: Ah, ok. I thought I was missing something somewhere. :-)
<\sh> shawarma:  nope ;)
<Tonio_> any motu available there for revuing http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3689
<Tonio_> already advocated so just one confirmation required for upload.
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: it seems that there are some dependency differences between debian and ubuntu on planner.  I'll jsut add an explicit dependency to libdbus-gblib-1 and re-upload to debian.
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: libdbus-glib-1-dev that would be
<joejaxx> what whould you all say whould be a fair size to make a root partition for ubuntu?
<joejaxx> the size lets say for a server install and the size for a desktop install
<joejaxx> if i want to have the rest of the drive be home
<joejaxx> i am trying to see how i should partition this drive
<joejaxx> to allow space for ubuntu to grow
<raphink> did you consider LVM?
<joejaxx> no
* joejaxx considers
<joejaxx> raphink: is that going to work well with a hardware raid 1+0?
<joejaxx> nevermind it should be transarent to ubuntu anyway
<raphink> sure joejaxx
<joejaxx> raphink: so the partition actively resize with lvm?
<raphink> it should work
<joejaxx> LOL
<raphink> I'm actually setting a lvm on a raid myself
<raphink> just now
<joejaxx> why did i not know about this before
<raphink> although it's a raid5, not 10
<joejaxx> i have been looking for something that was like the vmware hdd resize method
<joejaxx> raphink: thanks for telling me :)
<joejaxx> i should reformat this laptop now then
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> hey barry
<bddebian> Hi \sh
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: no, that was a problem with libgnomeui - it's fixed in ubuntu now
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: it's not needed
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: a give-back or rebuild in ubuntu should do
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: done.
<Q-FUNK> infinity took care of it
<dholbach> rock and roll
<dholbach> so dbus-glib not needed as a build-dep
<Q-FUNK> indeed not
<Q-FUNK> which is nice
<proppy> oy
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy
* bddebian hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs bddebian back
* proppy hugs proppy
<poningru> thats it
<poningru> I am logging all the ubuntu hugs and putting it up on a website
<poningru> should be easy to do
<proppy> auto hugging too ?
<poningru> sure why not
<proppy> hugbuntu
* poningru goes to register that
<proppy> :)
<proppy> make a wiki page instead :)
<poningru> hmm
<proppy> i wonder if there is some tool to update a moinmoin wiki via a script
<proppy> i should be easy with a bit of curl
<poningru> hehe true that
<poningru> though I have never maintained a moin
<poningru> so dont know the things that go into it
<proppy> there is definitly room for nice procrastination into this :)
<poningru> oh yeah
* poningru is def going to procrastinate... thats my trademark
<zorglu_> q. is it possible to make a package for edgy/feisty on a dapper installation ?
<imbrandon> yes
<imbrandon> just use the pbuilder howto to make a edgy or feisty ( or both ) pbuilder
<imbrandon> zorglu_: ^^
<zorglu_> is there a special name for this process
<zorglu_> ah ok, thanks
<imbrandon> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<imbrandon> there is the link to the howto, it tells you how to setup multi pbuilders
<zorglu_> it is my first time as packaging for ubuntu, pbuilder is the recommended way ?
<imbrandon> yup :)
<zorglu_> cool :)
<rexbron> Hello, Would anyone here be able to tell me WHY mjpegtools is in multiverse?
<Laser_away> rexbron: becuase it or something it depends on is non-free
<rexbron> LaserJock: From what I can tell from looking at the dependacies, everything is in main
<LaserJock> then I would guess mjpegtools itself is non-free then
<rexbron> LaserJock: But the package says the code is GPL
<LaserJock> it comes from the Marillat Debian repo
<rexbron> I am refering to mjpegtools0c2a
<rexbron> as that is the one in multiverse
<zorglu_> maybe it contain patented stuff ?
<rexbron> is mpeg non-free?
<zorglu_> unsure, i was just suggesting
<rexbron> I am just really confused...
<rexbron> Is there a place where one can find the information as to why a package was put into multiverse?
<rexbron> on a package by package basis?
<LaserJock> rexbron: no
<LaserJock> but you could perhaps as an archive maintainer
<rexbron> ok I will contact the maintainer
<rexbron> ty for your help
<LaserJock> I'm just really not up on the multimedia-in-Multiverse stuff
<rexbron> I am trying to help with ubuntu studio and part of that is trying to make it all free software
<LaserJock> I couldn't find any obvious Multiverse deps
<LaserJock> ah, cool
<rexbron> and as far as I can tell this package is free, but I will need to do more research
<LaserJock> well, usually packages in Marillat are there because of none-free or something similar
<LaserJock> _MMA_: you around?
<_MMA_> Hello :)
<_MMA_> Arent you at work? :)
<LaserJock> ummm ....
<_MMA_> lol
<LaserJock> rexbron was just asking about mjpegtools
<rexbron> sup _MMA_
<rexbron> :)
<LaserJock> I think probably the best place to ask is either the MOTU Multimedia team or the archive admins
<_MMA_> Ok. Like elmo?
<rexbron> I am emailing the maintainer right now
<LaserJock> rexbron: who?
<rexbron> Cristian Marillat
<LaserJock> _MMA_: well, I'd check with slomo first, then Keybuk or cjwatson
<LaserJock> rexbron: I don't think that'll help
<LaserJock> he doesn't have anything to do with Ubuntu
<rexbron> can not hurt to try?
<rexbron> LaserJock: who would you sugest then?
<_MMA_> LaserJock: is slomo om the Multimedia team?
<LaserJock> should be
<_MMA_> Do they have a channel? :)
<LaserJock> you're in it
<_MMA_> lol
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/motumedia
* _MMA_ looks.
<LaserJock> slomo, siretart, and crimsun are the easy targets ;-)
<_MMA_> Ok. Since crimsun hangs with us Ill ask him.
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<Hacim07> quit
* proppy hugs dholbach
<dholbach> hey proppy
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<proppy> hoy dholbach
<proppy> i reuploaded unittest++
<proppy> the previous diff.gz was bloated
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> I got your mail
<dholbach> but didn't have a chance yet
<proppy> because i didn't generate it properly
<jorgp> where can I find a list of debian environment variables I can set in my profile?
<proppy> dholbach: np
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock dholbach 
<dholbach> heya imbrandon
<LaserJock> hola imbrandon 
<imbrandon> any "screen" guru's ? i want to flip the consoles in a split screen
<imbrandon> eg make the console thats on top , bottom and vice versa
* imbrandon found nothing in the man
<LaserJock> I only use it for one thing at a time and that's irssi
<imbrandon> :)
<zorglu_> q. i try to package a statically linked program, is there an already packaged programm i could look at to 'inspire' myself ?
<zul> imbrandon: ditto
<imbrandon> i found a way
<zul> how?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: 
<joejaxx> Ctrl+A
<joejaxx> Ctrl+a
<joejaxx> S
<joejaxx> gives you split consoles on screen
<imbrandon> C^a X then C^a n too the one you want on top then C^a S then C^a tab then C^a n again
<imbrandon> joejaxx: yea i know
<joejaxx> oh ok
<imbrandon> joejaxx: thats not what i wanted, i wanted to reverse those
<Kaleo> hi guys
<joejaxx> oh
<imbrandon> e.g. its a PITA but doable
<joejaxx> Kaleo: hello
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah
<Kaleo> is there a place where is written who is responsible for a package in Universe ?
<imbrandon> Kaleo: we have no "maintainers" all MOTU are responsible for all packages
<imbrandon> in universe
<Kaleo> Ok
<Kaleo> can I point you to a package which needs some love then ?
<rexbron> imbrandon: are the MOTU responcible for uploading to multiverse aswell?
<imbrandon> sure, but it would be better to file a bug
<imbrandon> rexbron: yes
<Kaleo> bug #66452
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66452 in gaphor "Dependancy problems - not synced from Debian?" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66452
<imbrandon> rexbron: universe and multiverse
<imbrandon> rexbron: and core-dev for main
<rexbron> ok
<Kaleo> and assign it to universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com ?
<imbrandon> dont assign anything
<rexbron> what is the procidure for requesting a sync from debian?
<imbrandon> !sync
<imbrandon> bah
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sync - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Kaleo> ok
<imbrandon> umm lemme find it rexbron 
<rexbron> ty
<imbrandon> rexbron: its on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DeveloperResources
<imbrandon> near the top
<rexbron> cool
<imbrandon> Kaleo: but in refrence to what you were saying awhile ago, NEVER assign a bug to someone, you MAY want to subscribe them to it
<Kaleo> I see
<rexbron> imbrandon: are we in UVF yet?
<imbrandon> Kaleo: but in this case they are already subscribed :)
<imbrandon> rexbron: no
<rexbron> ok
<Kaleo> imbrandon: there is also a rule saying that one should assign a bug to oneself whenever one set the status to Needs info
<imbrandon> Kaleo: right but thats totaly diffrent
<Kaleo> indeed
<imbrandon> thats assigning it to your self, you never ever assign someone else
<Kaleo> yes
<Kaleo> understood
<Kaleo> thank you
<imbrandon> np
<davromaniak> hi
<davromaniak> is there a REVU admin here ?
<rexbron> imbrandon: Could you advise me one how to go about: A copy of the entries from debian/changelog corresponding to the changes relative to the current version in Ubuntu
<rexbron> is that a copy of all the changes since the ubuntu version?
<imbrandon> no , that is check the ubuntu changelog , make sure ALL changes have been adopted upstream
<imbrandon> and list those changes buttle point verifying each one hase been put into debian, otherwise its not a sync its a merge
<rexbron> oh
<davromaniak> I made a package, added myself to "Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe", and I have to ask an admin to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring
<rexbron> imbrandon: What is the policy for new upstream releases in debian?
<davromaniak> so, may I have to send a mail ?
<rexbron> as from looking at the change log, it would need to be a merge
<rexbron> imbrandon: as from looking at the change log, it would need to be a merge
<zorglu_> "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot"  produces "dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: autotools-dev" error, any suggestion on where should i look ?
<rexbron> zorglu_: sudo apt-get build-dep <package>
<rexbron> I think that should do the trick
<rexbron> just checking, you have build-essential installed, right?
<zorglu_> rexbron: and why what i should replace "<package>" ?
<zorglu_> yep i have my program and trying to build a package for it
<rexbron> ok, so it is not in the ubuntu repos
<zorglu_> aka there is no existing .deb for it
<rexbron> alright
<rexbron> different procidure then
<rexbron> have you read the packaging guide?
<zorglu_> i read quite of bit of doc :)
<zorglu_> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-build.en.html this one
<rexbron> might want to read the ubuntu docs
<zorglu_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Kubuntu?action=show&redirect=KubuntuPackagingGuide#head-d06acad1c46b4212504b21730b1c1170af18f9ff this one too
<rexbron> as things may be differn
<zorglu_> currently im stuck in understanding how to produce the .deb :)
<rexbron> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto, might give you an idea
<zorglu_> rexbron: do you know a simple statically compiled programm which already got a .deb ? i could look at it and copy
<rexbron> ubuntu is based on sources
<zorglu_> rexbron: i already read this one :) pbuilder is installed
<zorglu_> rexbron: well my programm is based on source too :)
<rexbron> you create a source package and then ubuntu's build machines will compile it from source
<zorglu_> ok
<rexbron> I am kind of newbish at packaging and proably know less than you
<rexbron> but I will try my best to help you figure out any problems,
<zorglu_> if so, you really dont know a lot :)
<rexbron> lol
<rexbron> quick question, have you installed autotools-dev or listed it as a build dependancy?
<rexbron> zorglu_: quick question, have you installed autotools-dev or listed it as a build dependancy?
<zorglu_> nope, but my compilation doesnt use ./configure
<zorglu_> aka autotools stuff
<rexbron> but it is listed as a build dependacy
<zorglu_> well i can install it :)
<rexbron> if it does not need it, then remove the build dep
<rexbron> what toolchain are you using to compile it
<zorglu_> good one :)
<zorglu_> the building go further now :)
<rexbron> good
<zorglu_>  /usr/bin/dpkg-buildpackage: line 175: fakeroot: command not found
<zorglu_> so i miss this package too :)
<rexbron> apt-cache policy fakeroot
<rexbron> could you post the result of that command
<zorglu_> just installed it
<zorglu_>   Installed: 1.5.6ubuntu2
<zorglu_>   Candidate: 1.5.6ubuntu2
<rexbron> now or before?
<zorglu_> just now, it wasnt there
<rexbron> ok so you have it
<rexbron> ok
<rexbron> lets try again
<zorglu_> well currenlty it is trying to build my programm
<rexbron> so far so good
<zorglu_> but i havent told it how to
<rexbron> hmm?
<brainsik> is there a python packaging team? i can't find any reference to one.
<zorglu_> make[1] : glib-config: Command not found <- so i got this kind of weird stuff
<rexbron> brainsik: I do not know, try contacting the python maintainer
<zorglu_> rexbron: to compile my stuff, one need to use command like "make -f Makefile.static myprogname-static"
<brainsik> i've found a second python package with critical dependencies missing from it. and i'm getting concerned there is a larger problem here.
<zorglu_> rexbron: and i dont know where to put those kind of stuff, im guessing in the 'rules' stuff, but i dont get it :)
<rexbron> brainsik: would you consider fileing a bug against it
<brainsik> i am
<rexbron> zorglu_: debian/rules is where you put the information on how to compile your program
<rexbron> zorglu_: what toolchain are you using
<rexbron> as that affects what kind of rules file you need
<brainsik> i am
<zorglu_> rexbron: not sure of what you mean my toolchain, i use make and g++ :)
<rexbron> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Kubuntu?action=show&redirect=KubuntuPackagingGuide#head-d06acad1c46b4212504b21730b1c1170af18f9ff
<rexbron> look at the section about designing a rules file
<zorglu_> ok will reread it:)
<rexbron> zorglu_: have you published the app?
<rexbron> zorglu_: also, is this for ubuntu or kubuntu et. al
<zorglu_> nope, the plan is 1. make package to get it easily installable 2. send it a few people 3. see how they react 4.fix and loop to 2 5. release :)
<zorglu_> yep it is for ubuntu, well if they are ok with it
<rexbron> you might want to check out the ubuntu packaging guide then
<rexbron> as I am not sure is the kubuntu one is different
<zorglu_> yep, but when this kind of thing gonna start to be relevant i will have done a huge step forward :)
<rexbron> zorglu_: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<rexbron> is the main packaging guide for ubuntu
<brainsik> Is launchpad.net the place to put bugs? It's really unclear. Especially since ubuntu ships with "reportbug", which as far as I can tell sends an email to a list where it gets held in moderation forever.
<imbrandon> brainsik: yea LP is the place for bugs
<zorglu_> rexbron: well written doc :)
<rexbron> yes it is
<rexbron> zorglu_: have you packaged your app for debian?
<zorglu_> rexbron: nope i run ubuntu so i will try to package for this one first :)
<jdong> anyone up for a quick-and-easy fix for me? :D
<jdong> flexbackup in feisty
<jdong> the build script uses a bashism
<jdong> {path1,path2}
<rexbron> zorglu_: cool
<zorglu_> rexbron: i think i will start all over with this doc :)
<jdong> though I don't understand how it built in Feisty
<jdong> feisty still uses dash, right?
<rexbron> read the packaging from scratch to get a good idea of how it works and then maybe look into debhelper
<rexbron> zorglu_: also, are you running fiesty on that machine?
<zorglu_> rexbron: nope, got 2 boxes running dapper, i will try to builder a dapper package and then will see about using pbuilder to build for latter version
<zorglu_> rexbron: yep it is much more organized that the other docs i read :)
<rexbron> zorglu_: I would think that you would package it for fiesty as that is the next release, and you can not get your program into the dapper repos
<zorglu_> i plan to build the package for dapper and up, if it is not possible to be in the official repository, i will run it on mine
<zorglu_> some people still run dapper :)
<rexbron> hmm, I do not know if that is adviseable
<rexbron> zorglu_: I runn dapper as a server at home
<zorglu_> rexbron: why not ?
<rexbron> point being is, shoot for inclution in fiesty first IMO,
<rexbron> as the use of 3rd party repos is really unsupported
<imbrandon> it can always be backported
<rexbron> trur
<rexbron> true
<rexbron> imbrandon: I think that the package that I was taking about being synced needs to be merged
<zorglu_> ok :) anyway being included in ubuntu repository is not for today :))))) i still have to produce a .deb and to see how the code work :)
<rexbron> and that is a bit over my head
<rexbron> zorglu_: thats true
<proppy> ++
* proppy hugs davromaniak
* proppy hugs dholbach
<Adri2000> LaserJock: don't forget to re-review homebank please! :)
<zorglu_> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide is really well written, it answer a lot of questions i had. congrats :)
<LaserJock> zorglu_: thanks, hopefully it will get even better
<shawarma> Does anyone know anything about ntfs-3g?
<zorglu_> naive question: apparently when building package it is important to be root at some places and to workaround this, there is a fakeroot, i dont understand why one needs to be root to build a package ? any idea ?
<zorglu_> q. about the required target in the 'debian/rules' makefile, only 'build' 'clean' and 'binary' are required, correct ?
<brainsik> zorglu_: regarding fakeroot, i believe you need it so that the right perms get set on certain files. i.e., when a package installs, the files generally need to be chowned root, the fakeroot package can set enough of the environment up so that when the files get packaged they'll have the right perms.
<brainsik> i think :)
<zorglu_> ok :)
<brainsik> i know people have had trouble with fakeroot, i'm not sure what the policy is on using it if you are uploading official packages.
<Sp4rKy> siretart: revu works :)
<Sp4rKy> siretart: no, it worked :|
<Sp4rKy> i really don't understand what's wrong
<Sp4rKy> it works, and just a refresh, and it doesn't :|
<malex> Can Debian python packages built for the new python policy (using python-central and python-support) be installed on edgy without modifications?
<ademan> lol that thread in the ubuntu-motu mailing list spelled "merges" wrong
<zorglu_> dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot -> parsechangelog/debian: error: badly formatted trailer line, at changelog line 5
<zorglu_> and my line 5 is "-- Captain Packager <packager@coolness.com>  Wed,  5 Apr 2006 22:38:49 -0700"
<zorglu_> aka the one direct from the http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html
<zorglu_> any suggestion ?
<zorglu_> got it :)
<zorglu_> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html <- in the file example there is a missing 'space' just before the -- and this confuse the parser
* jdong implements lzma compression for flexbackup
<LaserJock> zorglu_: is it still there?
<LaserJock> I fixed that a while ago
<LaserJock> could be doc.ubuntu.com hasn't rebuilt for a while
<zorglu_> yep still there :)
<TheMuso> woohoo! THe ubuntu-devel list will be a lot quieter! :)
<LaserJock> I hope so
<Adri2000> hey LaserJock 
<Fujitsu> Morning, LaserJock.
<Adri2000> ahhh Fujitsu hi! :)
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yeah! Finally :)
<Fujitsu> Hi Adri2000.
<TheMuso> So do I. I don't intend to join the -devel-discuss list.
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: I was looking for you about homebank, did it build fine finally? :p
<Fujitsu> Hm, I cannot remember. :S
<TheMuso> Out of all the mailing lists I am on, ubuntu-devel usually has taken the longest to get through, as I don't want to miss good threads/good bits of info.
<jdong> could a MOTU with some spare time consider https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/flexbackup/+bug/75042
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75042 in flexbackup "[patches]  LZMA support, bashism in debian/rules" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<jdong> thanks
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: I did a new upload (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3706) with a man page
<TheMuso> jdong: Have you considered subscribing the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team?
<jdong> TheMuso: no, didn't know that even existed :D
<TheMuso> jdong: I'd subscribe them, which means someone is likely to give it a look over at some point.
* jdong does that
<TheMuso> What I usually do is subscribe them as soon as I have put all necessary info into the bug report. Do this quickly enough, and the people on that team will receive a copy of the bug via email when you do.
<jdong> thanks for the tip
<TheMuso> No problem.
<gnomefreak> we stay subscribed to -devel list no matter what we choose right?
<Fujitsu> MoM is being rather slow with the whole updating thing at the moment.
<Fujitsu> Like, I uploaded matplotlib well over 24 hours ago, but it's still on the list.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: heh
<LaserJock> well, I'm pretty sure it isn't run all that often
<Fujitsu> Last time I heard, it was 6-hourly.
<LaserJock> oh, I didn't know it was that often
<zorglu_> ls /var/cache/pbuilder/result/hello_2.1.1-1_i386.deb <- wow im proud :)
<Fujitsu> It was, although it sometimes explodes on something, so doesn't update.
<LaserJock> I liked it much better in dapper :/
<jdong> crap
<jdong> lzma in debian seriously changed
<jdong> grr
* jdong smacks Debian
<Burgwork> gnomefreak: yes
<gnomefreak> Burgwork: ty
<Burgwork> you just won't be able to post unless you are a motu, dev or have climbed Mount Doom and survived
<LaserJock> how do they know if it's a dev?
<Burgwork> via LP
<Burgwork> going to sync the lists out of LP each day
<LaserJock> umm, and going by name?
<Burgwork> email, I believe
<LaserJock> which one? :-)
<LaserJock> I guess any
<TheMuso> I'd guess they'd check it against your subscription to the list
<Burgwork> the perferred, I would gather
<LaserJock> what I'm saying is what if you subscribed with an email that isn't the preferred (or even on LP)?
<LaserJock> seems like that would cause a problem
<TheMuso> I haven't really read the spec myself.
* Fujitsu scratches his head.
<Fujitsu> I've had two seperate archive admins say they would do the maxima thingy `later today' over the past week, yet nothing has happened :(
<Sp4rKy> hi Fujitsu LaserJock 
<Sp4rKy> please, i've just install my REVU website
<Sp4rKy> but now i would know how i can add admin & users to it ?
<Sp4rKy> maybe you can help me ?
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: no clue, email siretart
<joejaxx> LaserJock: what whould you say the minimum i should make / whould be
<Sp4rKy> hi joejaxx 
<joejaxx> LaserJock: on a ubuntu server install
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: hello
<Sp4rKy> how are you ?
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: k
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what do you mean?
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Depends what other trees you have filesystems for.
<joejaxx> well i want to have / and /home
<joejaxx> home taking up the most of course
<LaserJock> oh
<joejaxx> but i want to have room on / for ubuntu to grow
<Fujitsu> Use LVM :)
<LaserJock> how much do you have total?
<Fujitsu> That way there is really room to grow.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: yes but i still have to specify some sort of partitioning schema
<joejaxx> LaserJock: 110GB
<joejaxx> plus another 36.9 if i can get this fourth drive working
<LaserJock> that'a fair amount
<LaserJock> *that's
<joejaxx> i really want  / to a minimum though
<LaserJock> most everything will be in /home?
<joejaxx> yes
<LaserJock> I'd say 3-5 GB then
<joejaxx> ok 5gb it is :D
<joejaxx> thanks LaserJock and Fujitsu 
* joejaxx might be back though lol
<joejaxx> first time using lvm
<joejaxx> manually
* LaserJock is a scientist and likes to pull numbers out of his ... calculator
<Fujitsu> If you're using LVM, leave a lot of free space in the volume group, that way you can expand partitions when they get full.
* Fujitsu merges.
<joejaxx> uh lool
<joejaxx> hmm i think i selected the wrong option
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> i wonder if i should have a swap partition
<joejaxx> this server has 2gb of ram
<Fujitsu> Yes, you probably should.
<joejaxx> how big?
<joejaxx> 1.5 times the amount of ram?
<Fujitsu> Unsure...
<Fujitsu> What is the server going to be used for?
<joejaxx> building cd/dvd images and vmware farming
<LaserJock> lots of ram sounds good there
<Fujitsu> Because of your lack of RAM, a fair bit of swap is probably a good idea.
<joejaxx> what is a fair bit of swap?
<joejaxx> 3.5gb?
<Fujitsu> Maybe 2gb, maybe more.
<joejaxx> i will set it to 3.5
<Fujitsu> You've got a fair bit of disk space, so why not :)
<joejaxx> so right now i have it like this
<joejaxx> 5gb
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx>  /root 5gb
<joejaxx>  /home 100.7
<joejaxx> swap 3.5
<LaserJock> although I wouldn't think you would really want to be swapping that much
<joejaxx> :\
<Fujitsu> I wouldn't advise making home that big at the start, because you're stuffed if / fills up.
* joejaxx deletes his current partiton schema
<joejaxx> i will set home to 70gb
<joejaxx> since i have to copy over 30gb of vmachines to it anyway
<joejaxx> now what about swap?
<LaserJock> heh, that really just doesn't sound fun at all
<joejaxx> on this laptop it has 1.25gb of ram and a 1.55gb swap partition
<LaserJock> well, more swap can't hurt you I don't think
<LaserJock> so 3.5 is probably fine
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> i will shrink the home though
<joejaxx> oh shoot
<joejaxx> i did this wrong
* joejaxx does not know what he is doing with lvm
<joejaxx> i am just going to do it regular
<poningru> keescook: bwhahahaahhahaa
<poningru> awesome hackergotchi
<keescook> poningru: :)
<poningru> if you need any of the gitsac or other series let me know
<poningru> I have all the dvds
<joejaxx> oh maybe i did not
<keescook> poningru: nah, I've got 'em too.  been watching the slowly
<keescook> *them
<poningru> frack that I went through an entire gits marathon
<poningru> didnt sleep for like 2 days
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: are you still there?
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: why is each of the lvm partitions flagged as f or bootable
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Yes.
<Fujitsu> The physical or logical volumes?
<joejaxx> logial
<joejaxx> they all have the "f" flag
<Fujitsu> I don't know...
<joejaxx> how does it know which one to boot lol
<Fujitsu> It doesn't boot off LVM.
<Tmob> anyone know how to get error status of from $(shell test -z /tmp/somelink ) in make?
<shawarma> Tmob: Could you provide a bit more context? What are you trying to achieve?
<brainsik> Tmob: not off-hand, but a brief perusal of a ./configure script might have an example
<shawarma> brainsik: a ./configure script is a shell script.
<shawarma> brainsik: ...not a makefile.
<Tmob> shawarma, hey buddy.. hows it goign
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: yeah i just saw that
<joejaxx> now i have to restart the server which is going to take forever
<Tmob> shawarma, well for example in a make file you have:
<shawarma> Tmob: This is probably a silly question, but do I know you?
<shawarma> Tmob: I don't recall your nick.
<Tmob> http://pastebin.ca/272322
<Tmob> shawarma, i'm the guy you helped with xfce-verve-plugin
<Tmob> i use T` as my alias on my desktop
<Tmob> shawarma, with the verve-focus getting removed automatically, etc..
<Tmob> shawarma, i think we finally let Gloubiboulga figure the fix out.. heh
<Tmob> slight correction in the code.. http://pastebin.ca/272326
<shawarma> Tmob: Oh, the geek formerly known as T`. :-)
<Tmob> haha
<Tmob> Tmob is the mobile close of T`
<shawarma> Tmob: Thanks for losing that annoying backtick. It's a pain to type on this keyboard.
<Tmob> tab completion?
<shawarma> Yes, but T` was at the very end of a loooong list of nicks beginning with 't'.
<shawarma> So annoying as it was to type, tab completing to it was more annoying.
<Tmob> oh really.. i thought symbols get the first priority
<shawarma> Tmob: Depends on the locale.
<Tmob> shawarma, any idea on the make return errno?
<shawarma> Tmob: Well, about your makefile: I'd probably short circuit it. Like so:
<shawarma> Tmob: Oh.. No, that won't work.
<shawarma> Tmob: :-)
<Tmob> haha
<shawarma> Tmob: Ah, yes, here's something:
<shawarma> $(shell [ -h ${MY_SYM} ]  && echo success || echo failure)
<Tmob> ah i like that
<joejaxx> imbrandon: have you tried using the poweredge's tape back up on ubuntu?
<Tmob> i guess just echo 1 is enough.. if its empty then its failure
<Tmob> thanks sharms 
<Tmob> grr.. shawarma 
<sharms> no no, your welcome
<shawarma> Tmob: Yes, I supposed you'd want to do that. The success/failure thing was just for illustrative purposes. :-)
<shawarma> sharms: :-D
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: way to go, good job of poking ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: 4th time this week :(
<LaserJock> I think the Herd1 freeze might have been some of it
<Fujitsu> Quite possibly, yes.
<Fujitsu> Oooh, very low visibility around here... Evil bushfire smoke.
<Fujitsu> The bushfires are like 500km away, but it looks like really thick fog... :S
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i got it :D
<joejaxx> 150 for /boot
<joejaxx> 150mb
<joejaxx> the rest fothe vg
<joejaxx> then setup the lvs inside the vg
<Fujitsu> Yep, that sounds about right.
<joejaxx> it is kind of like what i use for the os that controls the central network storage
<Tmob> shawarma, are you good at embedded __asm__ in gcc by any chance?
<Tmob> i am having some weird error from gcc's optimizer .. it things it doesn't have enough register or something to execute my code..
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i thought i did something wrong before because the debian installer was squaking at me
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: so i am going to have to add another lvm vg when i add another physical drive 
<joejaxx> that should be interesting
<Fujitsu> No.
<Fujitsu> You add another physical volume, then extend the volume group over it.
* plugwash isn't convinced spreading volume groups accross drives is the best idea
<plugwash> it just seems to be putting your data at more risk to me (since if either drive fails its going to be difficult to recover the volume group)
<joejaxx> i will probably end up having to redo it anyway
<joejaxx> once i get the fourth drive i am going to raid5 it anyway
<joejaxx> right now it is on Raid 0
<plugwash> btw does lvm allow you to move a volume between volume groups without downtime
<Fujitsu> Yay, gcl is finally in -updates.
<Fujitsu> plugwash: Not between volume groups, AFAIK.
<Fujitsu> You'd have to dd, I think.
<joejaxx> i need to find out where i can buy a 144gb 4mm tape
<joejaxx> i do not think they sell tapes that high of a capacity at the normal stores
<joejaxx> :(
<Fujitsu> That's a /low/ capacity tape.
<joejaxx> 144GB?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<joejaxx> do you know where i can purchase oenfi only see 72/36
<joejaxx> one i*
<shawarma> Tmob: Well, you can always toss the code somewhere so I can look at it.
<Tmob> shawarma, http://pastebin.ca/272165
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: or 36/72 rather
<Tmob> shawarma, and the error is: 
<Fujitsu> I have no idea at all.
<Tmob> http://pastebin.ca/272382
<Tmob> i put everything in one post.. code + error on compile
<brainsik> Does anyone know why there isn't any mention on the main ubuntu page of the dappery-edgy upgrade problems a lot of people are experiencing?
<plugwash> brainsik didn't most if not all of those turn out to be caused by dodgy third party repositries/tutorials?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-09
<brainsik> i hit three bugs today, two for python packages in the main repository
<brainsik> really really critical bugs, i don't understand how they got released -- severe missing dependencies
<brainsik> the other package is for something in universe, and it's not clear to me who to contact to get it fixed. the maintainer is a debian person, but the problem is ubuntu specific.
<LaserJock> brainsik: do you have bug numbers?
<brainsik> sure
<brainsik> This is probably easier:
<brainsik> https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/brainsik/+reportedbugs
<brainsik> ignore the kernel bug, that one i posted a while ago
<brainsik> the others are from today/yesterday
<brainsik> looks like one was confirmed
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> brainsik: this is on Edgy?
<brainsik> indeed
<LaserJock> well, the Debian package is the problem
<LaserJock> for python-imaging
<brainsik> LaserJock: what do you see? the debian package dependencies look correct
<brainsik> LaserJock: things look fixed in Feisty
<LaserJock> brainsik: ?
<LaserJock> I looked at the Debian sid packages and they are missing the deps you said
<LaserJock> Ubuntu didn't change anything
<brainsik> LaserJock: this? http://packages.debian.org/unstable/python/python-imaging
<LaserJock> yeah
<brainsik> LaserJock: those dependencies are right, they have the C libraries libjpeg62, etc
<LaserJock> I know, what I'm saying is Ubuntu hasn't changed anything
<LaserJock> I'm trying to track down what happened
<brainsik> i'm really confused, they are missing here:
<brainsik> oh, i see
<brainsik> LaserJock: i have a theory, if you want to hear it
<LaserJock> ah, I think I found it for python-imaging
<LaserJock>    * Add dependencies on ${shlibs:Depends}, lost in -6. Closes: #378596.
<brainsik> yeah, i saw that entry in the fesity changelog
<LaserJock> that's in the 1.1.5-11 changelog
<LaserJock> Edgy has 1.1.5-10
<brainsik> ah
<LaserJock> so it just missed that fix
<brainsik> it looks like the same thing happened to python-psycopg
<brainsik> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/p/psycopg/psycopg_1.1.21-13/changelog
<brainsik> 1.1.21-10
<brainsik> LaserJock: my theory is all this happened when Ubunutu moved from having python-imaging depend on python2.4-imaging (where all the binary stuff was), to just python-imaging. It's like all the dependencies didn't get changed. And in the case of python-psycopg, even the description "[Dummy Package] " remains in edgy.
<LaserJock> well, Ubuntu didn't do it but they just lost the ${shlibs:Depends} when the went from metapackage to real package
<brainsik> LaserJock: I see what you are saying
<LaserJock> Debian underwent a transition to a new Python Policy for packaging
<LaserJock> these 2 packages unfortunately didn't get completely fixed in time for Edgy it seems
* brainsik ndos
<LaserJock> how bad of a bug are these?
<LaserJock> do they make the packages unusable?
<brainsik> really bad: 1) if you do a fresh install of python-imaging, then you won't get the C libraries installed and the package is useless. importing the module fails.
<brainsik> 2) if you use apititude dist-upgrade to go from dapper to edgy, the C libraries can get uninstalled, breaking the packages that used to work
<shawarma> Tmob: Only just got round to looking at your code now. I have no idea what's wrong. Sorry.
<Tmob> shawarma, i found this.. http://www.red-bean.com/pipermail/minor/2004-May/000190.html
<Tmob> shawarma, read their comment.. search for BREG
<Tmob> trying to see how to change my code that way..
<Tmob> i'm really bad at this asm embedding.. 
<brainsik> LaserJock: apticron is totally broken as well, the cron job can't run with the change from /bin/bash to /bin/dash for /bin/sh.
<LaserJock> brainsik: and that is on edgy as well?
<brainsik> LaserJock: yes
<Tmob> shawarma, hmm removing -fPIC works.. not sure if it will work operationally though
<LaserJock> brainsik: and it renders apticron useless I suppose
<brainsik> LaserJock: well, it doesn't run :) the program itself works, but it's the cronjob that is supposed to run it and the cronscript is busted.
<LaserJock> well, I'm just trying to get a feel for if these bugs are candidates for edgy-updates
<LaserJock> they all seem like pretty severe regressions to me
<brainsik> LaserJock: well, that's how i feel
<brainsik> LaserJock: thankfully, they are all really simple fixes
<LaserJock> yes they are, but the process to get them there is kind of lengthy
<brainsik> LaserJock: i have no doubt :-(  is there any way i can help?
<LaserJock> brainsik: well, I think I'll try to write the SRUs and I might need some help as far as the user impact is concerned
<LaserJock> brainsik: btw, this is the Stable Release Updates (SRU) process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<plugwash> i'd think the lowest risk way to fix theese issues caused by the bash-dash transition would be to simply alter the scripts in question to use bash
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> that's the thing, all three of these bugs are 1-line fixes
<brainsik> plugwash: that's what i did on the edgy machine where i found it
<tsmithe> ping LaserJock
<LaserJock> yeah
<tsmithe> i uploaded a new version of asoundconf-gtk with the changes you suggested, should you care to revu it again
<LaserJock> tsmithe: ok, probably can't right away but probably this weekend I'll try to rerevu the ones I did the other day
<tsmithe> thanks muchly
<tsmithe> i wasn't expecting anything "right away" ;)
<tsmithe> now if only someone could merge(? - is that the correct term) xfce4
<LaserJock> I would guess Gloubiboulga will be doing that
<tsmithe> coolio
<tsmithe> just i'm hoping i won't need to file a bug about this annoying panel when that's done
<tsmithe> ah yeah - just saw the email
<LaserJock> brainsik: ok, I assigned myself to your 3 bugs, I'll try to get SRUs proposed as soon as I can
<brainsik> LaserJock: i appreciate it very much. any idea how this could have happened? these packages appear to not have been tested before release.
<LaserJock> brainsik: well, basically what happened is we released Edgy right between the problem and the fix in Debian
<LaserJock> and if nobody filed a bug before we released there isn't much of a way to know
<plugwash> well in the case of the missing dependencies maybe most people who used them on ubuntu already had the libs in question installed from other things
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> it's tricky business trying to make sure it's all perfect
<brainsik> plugwash: yeah, i can see that. but the apticron one doesn't fit that. :(
<plugwash> as for apticron it appears to be a straight auto-import from debian so its quite possible that is was simply never tested
<LaserJock> well, we did do some bashism testing I remember
<brainsik> LaserJock: indeed. i just feel like if i pick Debian, i get higher quality but a release cycle that's far too long. If i pick Ubuntu, i get a great release cycle, but everything is far less tested. :-(
<LaserJock> well, there are sum pluses and minuses there for sure
<LaserJock> we are really trying to get better testing for Feisty
<plugwash> yeah, one of the disadvantages of using a second tier distro like ubuntu is that the repositries may contain packages that have never been tested on that distro
<plugwash> whereas with a first tier distro you can be fairly sure that the maintainer at least tested it on thier own system before uploading
<brainsik> LaserJock: well, let me know if you need any help from me.
<plugwash> and is likely also aware of any major changes happening in the distro
<brainsik> plugwash: yeah, that's what i am coming to understand. very interesting.
<LaserJock> well, one of these is particularly interesting
<LaserJock> because the Debian maintainer is also the Ubuntu maintainer
<LaserJock> so he should have known there was an issue there
<LaserJock> but as he basically takes care of all of python in Ubuntu I guess he overlooked it
<plugwash> btw why was the bash-dash change made in the first place? performance?
<shawarma> Does anyone have an ia64 machine I can use for debugging a package?
<LaserJock> brainsik: the best thing I can tell you is that if you possibly can test the packages you care about in Feisty *before* it's released
<brainsik> plugwash: performance is cited in the description of the package
<LaserJock> brainsik: generally the Beta release would be the best
<brainsik> LaserJock: yeah, that's what i'm thinking i'll probably do
<LaserJock> yeah, it shaved some time on bootup
<LaserJock> and I guess it just in general made system processes faster
<brainsik> LaserJock: i'm coming from Debian, so i've gotten used to things pretty much always working. i realize it's different with the faster release cycle and i think i'm willing to put in the extra time for it. and i've now got a VM system up and running, so testing should be no big deal.
<LaserJock> brainsik: I believe we are also going to try to do much more automated testing too for Feisty
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It shaved quite a lot of time on bootup, I believe.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: heh just goes to show what we need to indicate a merge in progress. :)
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yup.
<brainsik> LaserJock: cool. it's all very interesting to me.
<LaserJock> yeah, for me as well
* plugwash would think that at least a regression test install then rebuild then install the rebuilt version for every package would be a good idea
<LaserJock> TheMuso, Fujitsu: I was just thinking (and talking with sfflaw) about tags on LP
<LaserJock> perhaps we can file bugs for merges and tag them to show status
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if we'd even need tags, maybe an advanced search would be enough
<LaserJock> plugwash: but doing that on 20,000 source packages takes some time too :-0
<LaserJock> :-) rather
<crimsun> joejaxx: you can work around that by appending hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false . The problem is the partitioner.
<LaserJock> many of the things I'm frustrated by are bugs that take actual usage to know that there is a regression
<joejaxx> crimsun: ah ok
<joejaxx> i will have to try that
<LaserJock> we don't have time to play around with every package to see if it works right
<LaserJock> and most of the time we wouldn't even know what to look for
<StevenK> LaserJock: Agreed.
<LaserJock> packages that are uninstallable or Fail To Build From Source are about as far as we can go
<StevenK> LaserJock: Personally, I'm sick of users saying "This has been broken for months! Don't you check?!"
<plugwash> [00:22]  <LaserJock> plugwash: but doing that on 20,000 source packages takes some time too :-0 <-- which is why you 1: automate it 2: use fast machines 3: use more than one machine. 
<LaserJock> plugwash: but some amount of stuff is not easily automated
<LaserJock> like what I'm saying
<StevenK> plugwash: That won't catch everything.
<LaserJock> we generally handle FTBFS and unmet-deps reasonably well
<plugwash> StevenK nope but it can at least be made to catch packages that are uninstallable on a system with a minimal installation
<LaserJock> ajmitch is working on getting britney working on Universe
<LaserJock> it apparently takes quite a bit of time and RAM but I think we'll have it
<Fujitsu_> Note to self: Keep track of time when using a laptop on battery power with Blackbox; there's no g-p-m to save you.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> why not run g-p-m in blackbox?
<LaserJock> or would that totally defeat the purpose
<Fujitsu_> I haven't got any Gnome stuff installed at the moment.
<plugwash> does ubuntu currently import stuff from sid regardless of RC bugs?
<LaserJock> I believe so
<Fujitsu_> I don't think I've got any Gnome libs other than GTK, or dbus/hal...
<LaserJock> I think it's pretty automatic
<Fujitsu_> plugwash: Yes.
<crimsun> LaserJock: pong
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu_> Hi bddebian.
<crimsun> 'lo bddebian, Fujitsu_ 
<bddebian> Hi Fujitsu_
<bddebian> crimsun: Hiya
<Fujitsu_> Hi crimsun .
<Fujitsu> Damn sparc and ia64 buildds lagging behind...
<crimsun> bddebian: (Debian component again...)
<bddebian> crimsun: ?
<crimsun> #75064
<bddebian> Oh, shister
<joejaxx> bddebian: lol
<joejaxx> bddebian: if i wanted to test out debian 
<joejaxx> bddebian: which release should i get?
* bddebian only ever ran Unstable :-)
<crimsun> bddebian: you may find pitti's script (cf. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources under Syncs) useful
<joejaxx> bddebian: :P
<joejaxx> bddebian: does debian have clustering packages in its repos?
<joejaxx> bddebian: nevermind that is an ignorant question
<bddebian> crimsun: Doesn't work real well when filing bugs from a Windows box ;-P
<plugwash> joejaxx use the etch rc1 images
<joejaxx> plugwash: ok
* joejaxx wgets
<bddebian> Sheesh where the hell do I see what component the stupid debian package is in??
<bddebian> crimsun: ??
<crimsun> bddebian: I normally use PTS
<bddebian> Which is?
<crimsun> bddebian: e.g., http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/pymol.html , see the source file URLs at the bottom of the left side
<crimsun> (note the 'main' in the URL)
<bddebian> Hmm, I'm on packages.qa.d.o
<crimsun> e.g., http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/pymol/pymol_0.98+0.99rc6-2.dsc
<bddebian> Yeah, duh thanks
<crimsun> np
<bddebian> Hmm, I just sync everything and I won't have anything to do for Feisty+1 :-)
<crimsun> sounds like a win-win situation!
<lifeless> whos a kde person here ?
<bddebian> I know enough to be dangerous, that's about it
<lifeless> does adept-installer do dpkg-divert tricks to make upgrades work ?
<lifeless> its missing replaces: statements for adept, which it was split out from
<lifeless> (the whole suite is buggy in this regard)
<bddebian> Got me, sorry :-(
<lifeless> do you have adept installed ?
<lifeless> if so can you look in the preinsert for adept-installer, for dpkg-divert calls ?
<crimsun> dpkg-deb -I adept-installer_2.1.2ubuntu3_i386.deb preinst >/dev/null 2>&1 ; echo $?
<crimsun> 2
<crimsun> so there's no preinst at all.
<lifeless> righto
<lifeless> bugfiling time
<imbrandon> re
<crimsun> (imbrandon is a kde person)
<lifeless> I know that ;)
<imbrandon> ?
<crimsun> imbrandon: you broke adept-installer!!?@
<crimsun> (jk)
<imbrandon> ugh hehe doubtfull, that thing is a mess
* imbrandon dosent like to touch it :)
* imbrandon reads the scrollback
<elkbuntu> "it broke itself, i swear"
<lifeless> whoever did the packaging update to 2.1 broke it
<imbrandon> mostlikely Riddell or mornfall
<imbrandon> they are the only two brave enough souls to touch it
<imbrandon> i know there was some changes planned soon for it ( as far as the way it handled debconf stuff ) but not sure who is doing it or if its even started or finished
<imbrandon> btw heya crimsun elkbuntu lifeless and bddebian 
<crimsun> &hi;
<elkbuntu> hi imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> btw elkbuntu got the bday card today, thanks :)
<elkbuntu> :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: You're also born on the 9th?
<imbrandon> 19th
<StevenK> Ah
<imbrandon> is my bday
<elkbuntu> i had no idea what day to aim for
<crimsun> haha
<imbrandon> lol
<elkbuntu> just knew it was sometime in december and i had to make fun of your age :
<crimsun> "err, well, it's sometime before Christmas..."
<imbrandon> LOL
<StevenK> Muahah
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<imbrandon> :)
<crimsun> imbrandon is now an old fart
<bddebian> *cough*
<imbrandon> officialy in a few days :)
<lifeless> imbrandon: this is trivial shit
<lifeless> imbrandon: broken packaging 
<imbrandon> lifeless: ahh
<lifeless> happy few-days-day
<lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/adept/+bug/75073
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75073 in adept "missing conflicts or replaces: lines in splt out packages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> is there a changelog entry to show whom slit the packages ?
<imbrandon> split*
<lifeless> should be
<lifeless> you have it installed, not me :)
<lifeless> just look for 2.1
<imbrandon> hahah thats the first thing i uninstall :)
<imbrandon> but i will
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> first adept then oo.o , THEN i use my computer :)
<lifeless> imbrandon: :)
<jdong> what's the MOTU policy on annoying programs? :D
<lifeless> there is none :)
<jdong> yay!
<jdong> come on, who doesn't want musical iptables? </sarcasm>
<jdong> though I gotta bring down the pitch of ports 40000+
<imbrandon> ugh LVM has finaly gotten the better of me
* imbrandon reformats the server
<somerville32> Is there an SRU policy for documentation packages?
<imbrandon> i'd assume its the sme sru policy
<imbrandon> as the rest of the archive
<imbrandon> s/sme/same
<psusi> gotten the better of you?
<psusi> lvm trash your data or something?
<somerville32> But there is such a low risk of regression. It seems like there should be a more permissible policy for documentation to allow fixs and updates.
<imbrandon> psusi: no i seem to be too ignorant to set it up correctly
* psusi doesn't see too much point in it
<imbrandon> somerville32: well imho the SRU policy is quite permissable 
<imbrandon> psusi: well its really really nice for a server you plan on adding more and more storage to at some point
<imbrandon> with -0- downtime
<imbrandon> and minimal data movement
<psusi> I guess.... if you plan on hot plugging the new storage
<imbrandon> sure, 146gig 15k sas drives in a del poweredge 2950 are quite hotplugable :)
<imbrandon> s/del/dell
<psusi> I just wish it would handle raid configurations other than 1
<imbrandon> well raid is done with the hardware controller so no biggie there
<psusi> I don't like hardware raid
<imbrandon> its very very nice and very reliable from my experince
<psusi> seen them munch the drives a few times or just blow up and you can't plug the drives in another machine and recover the data
<imbrandon> sure, i did just that exact thing 2 days ago on a redhat oracle server for colegate
<imbrandon> just pulled a drive while it was hot, put it in another box and rebuilt the array
<imbrandon> took all of 1 hour max
<lifeless> psusi: deoends on the raid controllers in question
<psusi> no, I mean if the raid controller dies, you can't just plug the disks in another machine and pull data off
<imbrandon> psusi: sure you can
<imbrandon> why wouldent you be able to
<lifeless> psusi: *depends on the raid controller*
<imbrandon> just import the config on the new raid controller
<psusi> because you can't access the array without the card
<lifeless> psusi: so buy more than one card!
<psusi> that assumes you have a new controller of the same type ;)
<psusi> that's not allways possible/painless
<lifeless> plugin the battry pbackup, and away you go, no dataloss
<imbrandon> depends on your raid setup, i JUST pulled a sigle drive from a raid 5 ( perc 5 dell controller ) and poped it into a nother box and booted
<Tmob> shawarma, there?
<imbrandon> then added a few more drives and boom i had an identiacl box
<Tmob> anyone here familiar with inline asm in C?
<psusi> imbrandon, ohh, raid1 then I guess?  can't do that with raid5
<Tmob> or gcc constraints.. specifically
<Tmob> http://pastebin.ca/272618
<imbrandon> i just said raid 5
<imbrandon> :)
<psusi> imbrandon, care to explain how you boot from only one physical disk out of a raid5 set? ;)
<imbrandon> you dont you rebuild the array with more drives then you can
<imbrandon> e.g. you have a single poweredge with 4 drives in a raid 5
<psusi> that requires the raid controller card
<lifeless> wow
<imbrandon> then you pull one replace it, pull the second etc
<lifeless> more cnoflicts ;)
<psusi> I'm not talking about replacing a failed disk, I'm talking about when the controller dies and you want to get the data off using another machine ( that doesn't have the same controller )
<imbrandon> ahh well use the same controler :) e.g. 90% of our machinges are poweredges with the same controlers
<psusi> and I once had a controller up and decide that the 4 disks in the array were in fact, members of two different arrays of the same name, and since each only had 2 out of the 4 in the set, they could not be activated ;)
<imbrandon> not a problem backup from tape ( you wernt relying on the raid if it was the only raid controler you had were you ? )
<psusi> shouldn't have to
<imbrandon> yes you should, no single point of failure
<imbrandon> eg one raid controler
<psusi> with software raid you can plug the drives into any machine and they work
<psusi> no, shouldn't have to resort to the backups
<psusi> not you shouldn't have to back up ;)
<imbrandon> well that was more of a case of not buying the proper hardware for the setup, e.g. you still had a single point of failure
<imbrandon> not that hardware raid is bad
<psusi> that's my point... the hardware raid introduces that single point of failure
<psusi> go with software raid and you have one less single point of failure
<imbrandon> not in any sane production enviornment
<jdong> hah, that's a neat trick
<imbrandon> and more overhead
<psusi> negligable
<jdong> openSuse 10.2's installation never reboots
<jdong> it just unmounts the installation media chroots into the system and boots up like normal
<psusi> crunching a few XORs is blindingly fast on modern cpus ;)
<imbrandon> psusi: well every cycle counts in some ( most situations at work ) cases :)
<psusi> jdong, sounds neat... unless the installation isn't actually bootable, then when they reboot, it doesn't work ;)
<imbrandon> that and you can do neat thingsa like raid 5 with LVM :)
<jdong> psusi: at least it gives them one run :D
<jdong> lol
<psusi> hehe
<imbrandon> psusi: anyhow point is if its done correctly ( as with anything ) hardware raid isnt bad, infact its good in some cases :)
<bddebian> Hmm, we don't have libsvn-perl?
<jdong> bddebian: we should
<jdong> bddebian: or how does svk work?
<jdong> and wow, the sysinfo:/ view is cool
<jdong> but that umount progress dialog bug is still there
<jdong> lol
<jdong> we should just mount our removable devices sync
<psusi> no no no
<psusi> sync boogers the disk
<psusi> we need to dig up that flush mount option patch and get it in the kernel
<psusi> what's wrong with the umount progress dialog?
<jdong> psusi: it's nonexistent in KDE since Edgy
<psusi> ohh... what happened to it?
<jdong> rather 3.5.4/3.5.5
<jdong> psusi: WE DONT KNOW
<psusi> lol
<jdong> and nobody appears to be trying to figure it out :)
<psusi> would be a good thing to fix ;)
<bddebian> jdong: Well it's supposed to come from the subversion source package but I don't see a binary in feisty
<psusi> or as a workaround, change the unmount behavior to a remount ro, THEN umount
<jdong> psusi: but right now it means there's around a 5-30 second death trap for Kubuntu users
<jdong> hmm, yes, that workaround would work
<psusi> at least that way the icon won't go away until it is all flushed
<jdong> right
* psusi wonders how well it would go over to have a popup when you unplug a disk that has not been cleanly unmounted yet that says "Aiyeee!  You took that disk before I was done with it!  BAD MONKEY!"
<jdong> psusi: Edgy GNOME does that
<jdong> psusi: but the wording IMO is absurd
<jdong> it's a speed-reading test
<psusi> lol, really?  neat... what's it say?
<jdong> it shows like 2 or 3 sentences of a warning
<jdong> on a libnotify popup
<jdong> that lasts like 5 seconds
<psusi> hahha
* jdong triest to bring it up
<psusi> "BAD MONKEY!  You have angered the computer gods.  For your transgressions you must be punished.  I will eat all your files for breakfast.  Yum yum yum."
<jdong> Unsafe Device removal. To avoid serious data loss, disable removable drives with the Eject option in the drive icon's context menu, on the desktop, Computer place, or drive applet.
<jdong> actually, the notification stays there until you close it out now
<jdong> it didn't the last time I invoked that dialog
<jdong> psusi: it doesn't actually check for diry unflushed buffers though
<jdong> psusi: that'd be more hilarious
<psusi> is it accompanied by an audio of "DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!"?
<jdong> "Congratulations, you just lost 11.5MB of data. If you want to do that again, feel free to yank out your drives anytime you want! loser"
<psusi> ok, I think I have had enough beer while on irc for tonight
<psusi> lol
<jdong> lol
<psusi> night
<chillywilly> bah...
<LaserJock> hmm, bug #74955 is interesting
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74955 in qgis "Properties on objects in old project (0.7.4) caused crash" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74955
<LaserJock> the user files a bug when the package in the repos works but the package from the upstream breaks
<superm1> hey guys i was trying to include a png image in a package, but i cant seem to when i debuild, dpkg-source: cannot represent change to debian/background.png: binary file contents changed
<bddebian> Yeah, not easy
<superm1> so is there any way around this?
<bddebian> There are a couple of ways to do it.  Either use like an xpm format or uuencode the binary image
<superm1> i mean i'd think plenty of packages include images and such
<superm1> do you know if feh lets you set xpm images as a background?
<bddebian> No I don't, sorry
<bddebian> Of course the other option is to get it included in the upstream tarball :-)
<superm1> well this is kinda a distro specific kinda thing.....
<superm1> okay i'll look into that, what do you mean by uuencode?
<bddebian> Basically you encode the binary file to text, then when building you need to decode the file back to the binary format.
<superm1> is uuencode installed by default on systems?
<superm1> or will that be another build dep
<bddebian> No, I think you have to add a build-dep for it but I'm not positive
<bddebian> I usually try to avoid doing that
<superm1> alright. i'll give xpm a shot with feh
<superm1> any other image formats that are ASCII friendly?
<superm1> well moot point, feh works with xpms :)
<Hobbsee> ...where is everyone?
<Lathiat> hiding
<Hobbsee> awww :(
* Hobbsee knows that she's not in the best state, but didnt think people would hide from her :(
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ping
<Hobbsee> cool, more MOTU's
<bddebian> Where, where?
<LaserJock> and she leaves :/
<bddebian> I guess I scared her away? :)
<bddebian> I seem to have that affect on women ;-P
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> and bugs
<LaserJock> bddebian: I was going to ask you, I see syncs of science packages with .desktops. how's that going?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Like which?
<chillywilly> changing IP addresses on a T1 breaks a lot of stuff
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> forgot about all my apache vhosts
<bddebian> Heh. Heya chillywilly
<Hobbsee> it's so quiet...why?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: We're falling asleep :_)
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> wimp
<chillywilly> holy shit, I've had the same netflix movies forever
<crimsun> rexbron: RE: libmjpegtools0c2a, potential IP issues for encoding
<chillywilly> I am so not getting my money's worth
<rexbron> crimsun: hmm
<rexbron> that will pose a problem
<rexbron> i guess cinelerra will have to be multiverse
<rexbron> too bad
<bddebian> Ahhh, why do I sit here and watch the news??
<Hobbsee> bddebian: awww
<chillywilly> slacker
<chillywilly> ;P
<Laser_away> bddebian: I'll talk to you later about it
<bddebian> Laser_away: NP, gnight man
<Hobbsee> crimsun: you around?
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon 
<Hobbsee> how's things?
<imbrandon> goodie :)
<imbrandon> ( if thats a word )
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> hey jdong 
<jdong> hey
<jdong> I should be sleeping :)
<jdong> but who needs sleep when there's some coding deadlines in 2 days :D
<Hobbsee> what deadlines?
<jdong> and respective webdocs
<jdong> Hobbsee: not ubuntu, some robotics stuff
<Hobbsee> ah
<jdong> but there is good news
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: does sound work, on kde?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i'm playing some stuff now
<Hobbsee> hrm
<jdong> at 12:50AM I did call one of the team members to deliver a nice little rant about the use of <blink> and <marquee>
* Hobbsee has forgotten the debugging sound stuff
<Hobbsee> jdong: haha, nice
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> sometimes it's NOT so good to have a web programming nerd around
<jdong> the other day, he embedded a 2048x1536 jpeg into an html file
<jdong> grr
<jdong> worst part is opening up the properties dialog on the link took 5 minutes
<jdong> stupid data: uri's
<chillywilly> why would any decent web guy embed such a large image?
<jdong> chillywilly: he thought it was funny?
<chillywilly> hah
<jdong> I don't always want to know the reasoning behind things like that
<chillywilly> I suppose not
<jdong> these are the guys making robot remotes out of their macbook gyros
<jdong> i.e. they'd play laptop catch while I'm working on the robot, and the next thing I know there's 30hp of unfiled sharp metal lunging at me
<jdong> "oops, forgot to kill the remote control daemon" my ***
<imbrandon> wow that looked fun
<chillywilly> bah
<Tmob> is there a way to make a make install think its running in a chroot ?
<Tmob> i dont want to install into /usr/local/bin..
<Tmob> i want to see what its installing.. first
<crimsun> the Makefile{,s} should honor $DESTDIR
<crimsun> Hobbsee: yes?
<Tmob> crimsun, ok, i guess this particular make doesn;t :(
<Tmob> i want it to think that ites installing into /usr/local/..
<Tmob> becaues it sets up some env scripts which have the destination locations inside them
<Tmob> isn't there a way to do taht? somehow wrap the entire app into a chroot or something..?
<crimsun> I take it this app doesn't use autotools, then?
<Tmob> no.. not even ./configure
<Tmob> its just a makefile
<Tmob> and i type make
<crimsun> sick.
<crimsun> yeah, hack up the Makefile{,s}
<Tmob> heh ok
<jdong> urgh
<jdong> what is it with peoples' fascination to type random commands they see?
* jdong just had to reset a robotics build server because a kid has apparently discovered the infamous bash forkbomb
<Tmob> jdong, why isn't ulimit set properly?
<Tmob> i will blame the admin
<jdong> because I thought I could trust them
<jdong> yeah, so blame me
<jdong> mainly because I didn't want them to actually have a reason for spawning a large # of processes
<jdong> then call me a 2:30AM when they can't
<jdong> (which they have before)
<jdong> AND DONT TELL ME TO UNPLUG MY PHONE
<jdong> :)
<imbrandon> dont unplug it, turn off the ringer :)
<crimsun> you should unplug yo...
<jdong> lol
<jdong> the crappy build tools sometimes do need for users to be able to spawn around 30-50 processes
<imbrandon> so set the mimit to 100
<imbrandon> limit*
<jdong> and even 30 infinite loops on a uniprocessor box is pretty deadly
<jdong> in terms of ssh'ing in and stopping it
<jdong> but I guess it sure beats nothing
* jdong effects a limit of 100
* jdong considers testing the limit with the bash forkbomb, then thinks better of it
<imbrandon> just tell them to watch youtube while they wait till you come in in the morning
<Hobbsee> crimsun: ping?
<jdong> imbrandon: then they leave youtube presents for me :)
<jdong> imbrandon: /bin/head failed tripwire the other day....
<crimsun> Hobbsee: contentless pong
<crimsun> Hobbsee: back in 20 mins, try again
<jdong> it featured a wonderful new feature
<imbrandon> well make it intresting and blok youtube at the router and make them do some ssh / socks forwarding home but figure it out on thier own etc
<jdong> $ head on
<imbrandon> it will slow them down for a few hours
<jdong> applied directly to the forehead!
<Hobbsee> crimsun: okay.  ping for 20 mins then.
<jdong> <repeat for all vt's and open fd's>
<Hobbsee> crimsun: @ sound
<jdong> sometimes I really think I should take away some of the sudoers
<imbrandon> i thouht you said you are the only admin
<imbrandon> if they have sudo they can fix it
<imbrandon> if they cant fix it they shouldent have sudo :)
<jdong> imbrandon: they use sudo to install stupid bsd shell games and fortune addon packs
<jdong> lol
<jdong> and I didn't say I was the only admin
<imbrandon> e.g. again why do they need it, thats not an administered server thans a sandbox it sounds like :)
<jdong> I hopelessly assume that if I give a member or two sudo, they'd fix things themselves and not bother me
<VoX> http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200612/pup/elections-wtf.png
<jdong> since I'm not technically on the team anymore
<VoX> sfw
<crimsun> Hobbsee: pong
<Hobbsee> crimsun: my sound has died again, how do i fix it?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: i get nothing from aplay
* Fujitsu yawns
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Gawd it's hot outside.
<crimsun> by "nothing", do you mean "it's inaudible but appears to play", or do you mean "it explodes"?
<Fujitsu> And low visibility...
<Hobbsee> the former
<crimsun> Hobbsee: pastebin ``asoundconf list && amixer'', please
<Hobbsee> crimsun: http://rafb.net/paste/results/NmQMQ313.html
<imbrandon> nicght all
<imbrandon> err gnight
<Fujitsu> Night, imbrandon.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: amixer set 'Master' 80%,80%,on
<Hobbsee> crimsun: still no sound for aplay.  but it will blare, as i've got pcm set to max, and control the master via the multimedia keys
<crimsun> Hobbsee: have you tried unloading all alsa modules, then reloading snd-hda-intel?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: no.  the syntax is....?
<crimsun> kill $(lsof -t /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*) && sudo modprobe -r $(lsmod |grep ^snd |awk '{print $1}' |sort -r) && sudo rm -f /var/lib/alsa/asound.state && sudo modprobe snd-hda-intel
<Hobbsee> no wonder i didnt remember it :P
<Hobbsee> kill: usage: kill [-s sigspec | -n signum | -sigspec]  pid | jobspec ... or kill -l [sigspec] 
<Hobbsee> crimsun: ^
<crimsun> is it snd_timer that's still loaded?
<Hobbsee> it was
<Hobbsee> as i had kalarm running
<crimsun> any processes holding /proc/asound or /dev/snd ?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: check with lsof -t /proc/asound/* /dev/snd/* ?
<crimsun> sure
<Hobbsee> returns blank
<crimsun> ok, and ``lsmod |grep ^snd |awk '{print $1}' |sort -r'' ?
<Hobbsee> a whole lot of stuff - want me to pastebin?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: http://rafb.net/paste/results/k04kGE43.html
<crimsun> sudo modprobe -r $(lsmod |grep ^snd |awk '{print $1}' |sort -r)
<Hobbsee> FATAL: Module snd_timer is in use.
<crimsun> ah, yep, that one.
<crimsun> are you running 6.06, 6.10, or 7.04?
<crimsun> (all three of them have broken alsa, yay?)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: 7.04
<Hobbsee> feisty
<crimsun> mm, that's rather tragic.
<crimsun> head -3 /proc/asound/card0/codec*
<Hobbsee> ==> /proc/asound/card0/codec#0 <==
<Hobbsee> Codec: SigmaTel STAC9200
<Hobbsee> Address: 0
<Hobbsee> Vendor Id: 0x83847690
<Hobbsee> ==> /proc/asound/card0/codec#1 <==
<Hobbsee> Codec: Conexant ID 2bfa
<Hobbsee> Address: 1
<Hobbsee> Vendor Id: 0x14f12bfa
<crimsun> ok, you'll need to try [what will become]  1.0.14rc1
<crimsun> sec, I need to roll the snap
<Hobbsee> okay
<jdong> PGHRAAAH
<jdong> you guys are gonna laugh at me
<jdong> on second thought, I won't tell you guys
* Fujitsu laughs anyway.
<jdong> it'll save me the embarassment
<jdong> someone pranked /etc/bash.bashrc
* jdong doesn't like being interrogated by bashrc.... :(
<jdong> and it's just really bad nerd jokes too
<jdong> with surprisingly good regex on the punch lines I'm supposed to type in
* Fujitsu goes into a LP-kicking frenzy.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: wget http://adhd.irule.net/~crimsun/alsa-snap-20061209.tar.bz2
<Fujitsu> Evening, Burgundavia.
<Burgundavia> hey Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> DO you have some Freenode LP-attack monitor, or something?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: grabbing
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: why so?
<Fujitsu> 18:39:24  * Fujitsu goes into a LP-kicking frenzy.
<Fujitsu> 18:41:40 -!- Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia]  has joined #ubuntu-motu
<Burgundavia> ah, right
<Hobbsee> crimsun: compile it, or what?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: extract it, make sure build-essential and linux-headers-$(uname -r) are installed, then cd work/alsa-driver && ./configure --enable-dynamic-minors --with-kernel=/lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build --with-debug=full --with-sequencer=yes --with-oss=yes --with-pcm-oss-plugins=yes --with-pcmcia=kernel --with-cards=hda-intel --with-card-options=all && make dep && make && sudo make install-modules
<crimsun> (spotted a bug in my script, durh, corrected)
<Fujitsu> Gah, screw this, I'm going to write something to mass subscribe motuscience directly to the bugs.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: wow, that's long
<Fujitsu> But that won't work... I can't get a sane listing of bugs... Crap.
* Hobbsee goes and hides from crimsun 
<Hobbsee> crimsun: um....
<crimsun> ?
<crimsun> if your headphones weren't plugged in...
* Hobbsee found the problem
<Hobbsee> no, wasnt that
<Hobbsee> it's about that bad though
<crimsun> you were wearing the wrong set of headphones?
<Hobbsee> no, i had the mute button set
<crimsun> ah, the hardware mute button
<Hobbsee> yes
<crimsun> yeah, I need to start poking for that
<Hobbsee> indeed
<Hobbsee> i keep forgetting - it's just a multimedia key, so i hadnt used it prior to this lappy
<crimsun> ok, well, at least I verified my changes aren't completely insane, since my hardware still seems to work with 14rc1
<Hobbsee> didnt see it in alsamixer or anything
<crimsun> yeah, you won't, it's lower level
<Hobbsee> *grumble*
<Hobbsee> thanks for your time, crimsun 
<crimsun> np
<Hobbsee> sorry its' for such a pebkac error, i thought i checked that
* Fujitsu grabs Hobbsee's Long Pointy Stick of Doom(tm), and gores Launchpad on it.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Fujitsu> motuscience's bug totals are suffering nastily due to LP's stupidity...
<Burgundavia> what is it doing now?
<Burgundavia> or, rather, what isn't it doing now?
<Fujitsu> #60124, compounded by #5183[56] .
<tenshu> hello all
<shawarma> This has probably been asked 734 times before... If there's a build failure on and architecture which I do not have access to.. Then what? I'm out of luck?
<shawarma> In particular sparc and IA64.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<rmjb> 'sup bddebian
<bddebian> Why isn't the merges page keeping up?  There are still several packages on there that have already been merged/synced
<bddebian> Hello rmjb
<rmjb> I'm gonna try to whack a few today
<rmjb> I thought you were an ubuntu member?
<bddebian> I am, why?
<rmjb_> sorry bout that, my "reliable" isp dropped my connection... again
<bddebian> :-)
<rmjb_> did you get my last comment? how come you came in as n=bdefrees@c-71-224-172-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net ?
<bddebian> rmjb: I've never gotten my mask
<bddebian> And Ubuntu doesn't want to admit I'm associated with them ;-P
<rmjb> oh... good way to hide from guys that pounce on an ubuntu member as soon as they join a channel then :)
<rmjb> bddebian: when I finish a merge do I upload to revu or generate some kind of diff to attach to the bug?
<bddebian> Personally, I would say submit a bug report and attach a diff but I've been a little out of touch lately
<catunda> I am reading MOTU guides on wiki page and I found this link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Enthusiasts on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU is broken.
<_Enchained> Hi here
<rmjb> sivang: hello?
<rmjb> hello _Enchained
<_Enchained> Can someone review a package for me ?
<bddebian> Later gang
<rmjb> later bddebian
<imbrandon> woot , finaly got the server racked
<joejaxx> imbrandon: nice
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i got lvm working on the riad0
<joejaxx> raid 0
<imbrandon> cool
<joejaxx> F ujit su helped me set it up
<joejaxx> imbrandon: do you know where i can purchase a 72/144GB 4mm tape from?
<joejaxx> the highest i have seen is 36/72
<imbrandon> not i, monday i can ask the purchasing dept at work
<imbrandon> they might know
<joejaxx> oh ok :) thanks
<joejaxx> imbrandon: have you tried tape backup on ubuntu?
<imbrandon> not personaly but we do it at work all the time
<joejaxx> imbrandon: oh ok
<rmjb> joejaxx: what tape format? I've worked with LTO
<joejaxx> i have to look it up
<joejaxx> i know it takes 72/144
<rmjb> question about merging, if MoM shows changes in the source files, can I ignore them and replace the files with what's in new orig tarball and just focus on the contents of the debian/ directory?
<geser> it depends
<geser> some packages dont't use a patch system
<geser> instead the files are patched directly
<rmjb> how can I tell?
<geser> check where the change comes from
<geser> when using a patch system there is mostly also a debian/patches dir
<rmjb> in these cases, the original tarball would be modified?, thus the diff.gz would show it?
<geser> yes
<joejaxx> rmjb: what whould you say a good ftpd whould be? proftpd?
<rmjb> joejaxx: I dunno, but the Ubuntu Server Guide recommends vsftpd: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ftp-server.html
* joejaxx looks
<joejaxx> i have used proftpd personally but i wanted to see some other alternatives
<fbond> joejaxx, I use vsftpd at work & home
<fbond> used to use proftpd
<joejaxx> fbond: ah ok
<fbond> I never noticed much of a difference, personally, but security features of vsftpd seem to be sufficient
<joejaxx> yeah proftpd can only go so far security wise
<joejaxx> fbond: yeah
<fbond> RHEL ships with vsftpd by default, FWIW
<fbond> they're supposed to be "stable" and "secure"
<fbond> (which translates loosely to, "doing anything non-standard is a royal pain in the ass"
<joejaxx> yeah basically lol
<fbond> twoftpd looks like the most secure FTP implemenation for per-user FTP; configuration looked like more than I wanted to deal with at the time.
<fbond> the author works for FutureQuest; they are an excellent data-center / hosting company / etc
<joejaxx> fbond: nice :)
<zorglu_> q. any good link/keyword on a doc explaining how to setup my own repository ?
<rmjb> zorglu_: check out Falcon, it's a repo maker
<zorglu_> lookin
<rmjb> I've never used it myself but there are ubuntu repos that use it like seveas.imbrandon.com
<joejaxx> fbond: you are right i am looking at the tour right now
<joejaxx> fbond: they put so much time into designing that place it is not even funny
<zorglu_> rmjb: yep a lot of people seems to use it, im unable to find info about it tho :)
<rmjb> https://launchpad.net/products/falcon
<zorglu_> ok i fails to find doc or even where to download this, i will try to set one up directly (i found debian doc on it) and be back on falcon if the previous fails
<zorglu_> rmjb: thanks for your help
<rmjb> np
<zorglu_> ultra naive question: what is a .udeb ?
<zorglu_> i will ask this question elsewhere:)
<rmjb> I think it's a micro deb
<geser> yes, u = 
<rmjb> really small, used for the initial ram disk, initrd
<geser> used for the installer
<zorglu_> ah ok thanks
<geser> every deb has /usr/share/doc/  dir and that's missing in udebs I think
<rmjb> stevenK: I'm taking a crack at merging adasockets
<rmjb> can I have two builds running at the same time for the same pbuilder??
<zorglu_> ok im have a wonderfull repository running :)
<rmjb> using falcon?
<imbrandon> rmjb: yes ( the pbuilder question )
<rmjb> wshew thanks... I can't wait for one build test to finish before trying another merge... 45 mins is too long
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> yea its really nice on a dual core system :)
<zorglu_> rmjb: nope my own. well currently i have a weird Release and no gpg key... so the apt-get produce scary message like 'this is unauthenticated... are you real real sure' :)
<imbrandon> but yea you can have as many going at one time as you system can handle
<imbrandon> Is there another word for synonym ?
* imbrandon is kidding 
<rmjb> my system can handle the builds... my bandwidth is the bottleneck
<rmjb> a synonym for synonym could be meaning :P
<imbrandon> run a local mirror on a fileserver :) i do , speeds things up nicely
<imbrandon> hrm cigarette time bbaib
<zorglu_> dpkg-parsechangelog: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (1234) <- while building a package i got a lot of those, any idea on how to fix this ?
<rmjb> zorglu_: I get those too, I don't know how to fix but I know they can be ignored
<zorglu_> ok i will ignore them too :)
<fbond> zorglu_, you were probably building inside a pbudiler chroot?
<fbond> s/pbudiler/pbuilder
<zorglu_> sudo pbuilder build ../*.dsc
<zorglu_> yep this is the command i use
<fbond> yeah, there is probably no user in /etc/passwd for the uid that is building the package
<fbond> since it is not a complete system
<fbond> the environment is not a login environment
<fbond> or something along those lines
<zorglu_> ok :) so in the 'safely ignored' category :)
<fbond> yup :)
<fbond> you shouldn't get that when building outside of pbuilder, though
<fbond> (unless your system is particularly odd)
<zorglu_> q. how do i check if a .deb is signed ? i try to trouble shoot why my .deb are not signed ? at least when people do apt-get on it, it is mentioned as impossible to authenticate
<fbond> zorglu_, are you using a third-party repo?
<fbond> your .deb may be signed, but people don't have the key in their local apt setup
<zorglu_> yep, the time to get the stuff stable enougth to attempt inclusing in ubuntu
<fbond> keys for the official repos are distributed with ubuntu
<fbond> people can add your key to their apt setups ... don't remember the command
<fbond> man apt-key should help, if you want to go that far
<zorglu_> yep i do something wrong there
<fbond> um, you aren't really "doing something wrong"
<fbond> you just haven't distributed your public key to users
<zorglu_> either i dont export the good key or dont include it well  or the .deb is not really signed
<zorglu_> well apt-get do report "The following packages cannot be authenticated!" :)
<fbond> does `apt-key list` show your key?
<zorglu_> yep
<fbond> And, is the package signature in your repo?
<fbond> (WARNING: I have not actually set up package authentication in the repo I use)
<imbrandon> its not weather the deb is signed it the repo its complaining about 
<zorglu_> fbond: what do you mean ? :)
<fbond> I feared that :)
<zorglu_> imbrandon: what is it complaining about then ?
<fbond> imbrandon: is there a key for the repo itself?
<imbrandon> the releases file must be signed, the debs really dont matter as far as apt is concerned
<imbrandon> in this instance
<fbond> ahh.  well, there you have it.
<fbond> where does that signature reside, or is it in the Release file itself?
<zorglu_> oh the release.gpg
<imbrandon> one sec , lemme show you mine
<imbrandon> yes
<rmjb> what's the link to the build servers statuses on launchpad? I don't see it on the front page
<zorglu_> well i dont hgave this Release with all the hash :)
<zorglu_> i didnt found how to generate this file :)
<zorglu_> imbrandon: is there tool to generate the Release file at the distribution level ?
<geser> rmjb: overview -> Target (feisty) -> buildds
<imbrandon> zorglu_: why not use something like falcon, it takes care of all this for you
<imbrandon> yes
<zorglu_> imbrandon: because i failed to find the doc or even how to download the software :)
<fbond> zorglu_, I use reprepro
<zorglu_> imbrandon: so i went for the stuff i had doc for :)
<imbrandon> http://seveas.imbrandon.com/dists/dapper-seveas/extras/
<imbrandon> second one down
<imbrandon> comes with pdf docs
<imbrandon> real easy to setup and use
<imbrandon> you can make a proper repo in 5 minutes
<imbrandon> :)
<Seveas> imbrandon, I just finished the no-config-file-anymore branch ;)
<Seveas> nice ncurses dialogs for configuring
<imbrandon> infact there is the upstream author zorglu_ :)
<imbrandon> Seveas: rockin
<zorglu_> ok :)
<fbond> hmm.  I'll have to check that out, too.  reprepro occasionally seems a bit crude.
<rmjb> thanks geser
<zorglu_> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/Release <- is there a codename for this file ? i mean it is not documented in http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/repository-howto/repository-howto
<zorglu_> a keyword which would help a search ?
<guibis> doko i have send a mail to you at ubuntu ...
<guibis> *i have sent
<zorglu_> apt-ftparchive is the steped i missed :)
<Fujitsu> Morning, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu 
<doomsday-> hello there, I'm looking for automake/libtool help... any ideas where I can find a dedicated IRC channel ?
<LaserJock> is it general help or help on a specific program?
<doomsday-> general help
<doomsday-> ..but it's for my specific program :-)
<rmjb> hey Fujitsu haven't seen you around for a while
<LaserJock> hi rmjb 
<rmjb> doomsday-: tried file:///usr/share/doc/libtool-doc/libtool.html from libtool-doc package?
<Fujitsu> I'm around 0300-0900 UTC on weekdays, and all the time on weekends, so that would explain it.
<doomsday-> I've read whole manual from gnu.org and redhat website
<LaserJock> hmm
<fbond> there's probably a different channel for each version :)
<rmjb> well I'm not on as often as you guys... so that would explain it more :)
<doomsday-> ^^
<doomsday-> well, I'm a bit confused with use of shared libraries with libtool. I have a binary and some plugins. These plugins are only loaded dynamically after my binary is launched. And then, I only need *.so files from plugins. I'm seeking for a way to not build, or at least, not install *.a and *.la files.
<doomsday-> no autotools expert around? :p
<shawarma> doomsday-: I've seent that done by just letting autotools do its magic and then removing the .a and .la files afterwards.
<doomsday-> :'(
<shawarma> doomsday-: Heh.. Otherwise try #workingset
<shawarma> doomsday-: Sorry. Make that ##workingset
<doomsday-> thanks ;)
<shawarma> I think that channel name qualifies as one of the least obvious channel names ever.
<shawarma> A google search for "autotools irc workingset" doesn't even give any references to it on the first page.
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-10
<zorglu_> q. is the source of falcon browsable by the web ?
<rmjb> zorglu_: from the Code link of the url I sent you earlier you can get to here: https://code.launchpad.net/people/dennis/+branch/falcon/devel
<rmjb> you'll need bzr to get the source
<zorglu_> ok thanks
<zorglu_> http://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt <- for those interested by the subject of security in this 
<zorglu_> ok i got it running without the scary 'unauthenticated package, are you sure you wanna break your box'  :)
<zorglu_> thanks for your help guys :)
<zorglu_> greatly apreaciated 
<somerville32> :)
<rmjb> it's all part of being a community :)
<_MMA_> Hi Evan.
<LaserJock> grrr
<LaserJock> crimsun: you around by chance?
<crimsun> no.
<LaserJock> darn
<ehazlett> hey cory
<LaserJock> is a package not usable when it used to be considered a regression (for SRUs)?
<LaserJock> !info rpy
<ubotu> Package rpy does not exist in any distro I know
<crimsun> LaserJock: imo, yes.
<LaserJock> !info python-rpy
<ubotu> python-rpy: Python interface to the GNU R language and environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.99.2-4build1 (edgy), package size 41 kB, installed size 176 kB
<LaserJock> crimsun: in the last 24s I've picked up 4, 2 Main, 2 Universe
<LaserJock> seems kinda crazy
<crimsun> you go!
<crimsun> there's our motu superstar!
<LaserJock> s/24s/24 hr/
<LaserJock> well, I'm trying to figure out if they are really SRUs or not
<LaserJock> 'cause I don't exactly look forward to the process
<crimsun> main's SRU process is more straightforward than universe's :)
<LaserJock> I suppose that's true
<crimsun> there's no "must be tested by 5 people"
<LaserJock> mostly just run it by mdz/cjwatson then let sfflaw know
* Fujitsu grumps at the 11th hour `doesn't work for me!' for 43150.
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> I saw that
<LaserJock> I can't figure it out
<Fujitsu> Neither can I.
<Fujitsu> It must be a different bug.
<Fujitsu> As the bug is most definitely fixed.
<Fujitsu> Anyhow, cjwatson will accept maxima on Monday if there is no response from that guy, or if it turns out to be unrelated.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I think it has to be something
* Fujitsu likes the number of outdated science packages... But not the bugs numbers so much.
<LaserJock> what do you mean?
<Fujitsu> There are 9 science packages which need merging, but like 200 bugs.
<LaserJock> well, we actually have a pretty good bugs/packages ratio
<LaserJock> just a lot of packages
<Fujitsu> ~0.5 bugs per package isn't good.
<Fujitsu> Though gnumeric and TeX* don't help.
<LaserJock> well yeah
<LaserJock> if you take ou gnumeric alone (hmm, I guess that's what getting packages from experimental might do to you)
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Fujitsu> Hahah
<Fujitsu> If you eliminate Gnumeric and everything TeX-related, we're down to 126, which isn't so bad.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: what do you think about getting maxima into Main?
<Fujitsu> Sounds like a good idea, if wxmaxima goes too.
<LaserJock> yeah, it would be wxmaxima in particular
<LaserJock> ok, I'll bbl
<Fujitsu> Bye.
<Fujitsu> What should I do about bugs like http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=384744?
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 384744 in drgeo "DrGeo has no .desktop" [Wishlist,Open]  
<geser> Fujitsu: become upstream?
<Fujitsu> I don't particularly want to...
<Fujitsu> There are too many science packages being orphaned these days... :'(
<geser> at least you know that they are orphaned
<geser> better orphaned than to have a maintainer which does nothing for this package
<Fujitsu> I think I'll try to take the Debian package, though. It looks like quite an interesting project...
<Fujitsu> True.
<geser> trying to get fujitsu@debian.org?
<Fujitsu> Eventually, hopefully :P
<_MMA_> imbrandon: ping
* joejaxx breaks the silence
<joejaxx> :)
<ehazlett> :)
<somerville32> :)
<joejaxx> so i have figured out a way around the whole apt-cache problem
<joejaxx> chroot fix everything
<joejaxx> chroots*
<joejaxx> :)
<_MMA_> joejaxx: ehazlett is the reconstructor guy. ;)
<joejaxx> really?
<_MMA_> yep
<ehazlett> yep
<joejaxx> ehazlett: hello :)
<ehazlett> :)
<ehazlett> greetings... :)
<ehazlett> brb guys...
<rmjb_> So I was trying some merges today, and on the universe merges page the rows are different shades... is the richer green an easier merge?
<Fujitsu> rmjb_: It is priority of the upload in Debian.
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<rmjb_> oh... I just wondered because the darker green ones I've hit only had one file to handle, while the others had more
<Fujitsu> Maybe not...
<Fujitsu> I think you may be right.
<Fujitsu> There must have been a reason I thought it was priority :S
<Fujitsu> Be warned that a lot of the listed merges have already been done, or syncs have been filed. MoM hasn't been updating, of late.
<rmjb> I had a hard time handling gnushogi that was previously done by bddebian... but now that I'm on the darker green ones I'm having more success
<rmjb> yeah I check launchpad before
<Fujitsu> Good, good.
<rmjb> imbrandon: I'm taking a crack at merging gtkpod
<rmjb_> I just got bumped, dunno how much of my last message made it if any at all so I'm gonna repeat it
<rmjb_> do I have to patch the install rule of the Makefile to change the location? Or is there a packaging trick that can be used?
<rmjb_> do I have to patch the install rule of the Makefile to change the location? Or is there a packaging trick that can be used?
<rmjb_> sorry, let me start over
<rmjb_> I have a java app on REVU and dholbach said the jar file should go into /usr/share/java, but the package automatically puts it into /usr/share/iriverter/lib/
<rmjb_> do I have to patch the install rule of the Makefile to change the location? Or is there a packaging trick that can be used?
<crimsun> in debian/rules, dh_install(1), or mv(1)
<rmjb_> thanks... I took a look at the Makefile and my eyes glazed over... glad I don't have to patch it
* Fujitsu gets depressed over the insane number of .desktop bugs that are being ignored by Debian.
<crimsun> seb mentioned pushing those upstream upstream instead of relying on upstream Debian
<Fujitsu> Doesn't help if upstream is dead, or if Debian is dead.
<crimsun> true 'nuff
<crimsun> you could hijack the package
<Fujitsu> That reminds me, I need to attack Debian's transcalc... A new version was released > 2.5 years ago, and there are a couple of other open bugs. I got the new version into Edgy, but what should I do about Debian?
<crimsun> filed a wishlist in Debian BTS?
<Fujitsu> They have been filed for some years.
<crimsun> with no apparent activity? hijack it ;)
<Fujitsu> (one is almost 5 years olf, AFAIK)
<Fujitsu> *old
<Fujitsu> How do I go about that if the current maintainer isn't around to orphan it?
<crimsun> http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-beyond-pkging.en.html#s-mia-qa
<LaserJock> I saw a few syncs from bddebians work lately
<rmjb> crimsun: it's okay to just put a mv command in after $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/iriverter in the debian/rules file?
<Fujitsu> Eeeeek, I strongly dislike the latest comment in #43150.
<Fujitsu> Wait, that's the wrong error message...
<crimsun> rmjb: sure, although I recommend you consider dh_install(1) instead
<crimsun> rmjb: #75182 uploaded.
<joejaxx> dhinstall is great
<rmjb> sweet, I'm having really good luck with packaging today
<rmjb> that's 3 for me that got uploaded :D
<rmjb> 3 today, 3 in all...
<joejaxx> nice
<rmjb> so in that case, the call to dh_install would replace the line $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/iriverter
<rmjb> and I'd set up a iriverter.install file pointing to where everything goes
<crimsun> no
<crimsun> you still need make install
<crimsun> you just don't need to manually invoke mv(1); just make sure dh_install(1) is invoked [with any appropriate parameters] 
<rmjb> okay, and that call to dh_install would be in the install: section of debian/rules right? not binary-indep?
<bluefoxicy> hm
<rmjb> I'm at a loss
<rmjb> in the build environment (in this case pbuilder) where would /usr/share/iriverter/lib/iriverter.jar be?
<rmjb> so far i've tried debian/usr/share/iriverter/lib/iriverter.jar
<rmjb> debian/iriverter/usr/share/iriverter/lib/iriverter.jar
<rmjb> and plain /usr/share/iriverter/lib/iriverter.jar
<rmjb> also $(CURDIR)/debian/iriverter/usr/share/iriverter/lib/iriverter.jar
<rmjb> but each time pbuilder craps out on the dh_install command I added to the debain/rules file
<rmjb> I'm suffering from a lack of understanding as to how the files are laid out in the build environment
<crimsun> rmjb: they're all relative. Don't use absolute paths.
<crimsun> rmjb: what are the contents of your debian/#foo.install?
<crimsun> -\#
<rmjb> ... I don't have any?
<rmjb> is that my first problem?
<crimsun> did you just randomly call dh_install?
<rmjb> this is the line I added to debian/rules:
<rmjb> dh_install debian/usr/share/iriverter/lib/iriverter.jar debian/usr/share/java
<crimsun> mmkay, so you need to reread dh_install(1)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ping, do you have a mdt package ( or a source tar or something i can work with )
<crimsun> essentially, dh_install is bombing because it doesn't understand invalid syntax you provided
<crimsun> hint: use debian/foo.install
<rmjb> well it says it can take [file [...]  dest] 
<rmjb> I'm trying with iriverter.install now
<crimsun> have you spotted your path error?
<crimsun> $(pwd)/debian/usr/  is invalid
<rmjb> dh_install
<rmjb> cp: cannot stat `./usr/share/java/iriverter.jar': No such file or directory
<crimsun> right, see above.
<crimsun> debian/iriverter/usr  !=  debian/usr
<rmjb> the foo.install file lists the files I and places I want to put the files right?
<rmjb> mine has one line:
<rmjb> usr/share/java/iriverter.jar
<crimsun> rmjb: -please- read the man page :)
<rmjb> I'm trying... I really am... I've gone over it about 3 times
<rmjb> tell me this though... where should dh_install be called in the debian/rules? in the install rule or the build-binaryindep rule with all the other debhelper commands?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<rmjb> hey bddebian
<Burgundavia> hey bddebian
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
<crimsun> rmjb: normally the install target, but it depends on the package
<bddebian> Wow, Hi rmjb, Burgundavia, LaserJock, crimsun :-)
<crimsun> yes, all three of the motu trinity are present!
<crimsun> (you, LaserJock, & imbrandon)
<LaserJock> bah
<bddebian> pfft
<rmjb> time to form MOTUtron... or something like that
<bddebian> haha
<LaserJock> yeah, my wife always asks why we did He-man rather then transformers
<LaserJock> she thinks transformers would be better for some reason :-)
<bddebian> Transformers rock :-)
<rmjb> this dh_install is not sinking in for some reason... I'll get back to it tomorrow
<rmjb> g'night all
<bddebian> Gnight rmjb
<bddebian> LaserJock: It appears that you don't need me anymore :'-(
<LaserJock> bddebian: why?
<LaserJock> of course I need you
<crimsun> it's not exactly a trinity with only two parts!
<bddebian> LaserJock: Well 'William Grant' has apparently done all my science package syncs and merges :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: oh, I remember I was going to talk to you
<LaserJock> could you do me a huge favor and look over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Science/UpstreamDelta and make sure your .desktop stuff is updated on there
<bddebian> Egads.. I can try
<somerville32> Do you think we could get xjump promoted to main so that we can include it with Xubuntu?
<Burgundavia> somerville32: main inclusion report
<somerville32> Before I goto the trouble, I thought I'd get some opinions
<bddebian> LaserJock: By upstream there do you mean Debian or upstream, upstream?
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, Debian to start with
<Fujitsu> bddebian: I needed /something/ to do :P
* Fujitsu runs away again.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: No worries :-)
<Fujitsu> MoM hasn't updated in 3 days :'(
<bddebian> So I've noticed :-(
<LaserJock> [[ is a bashism isn't it?
<bddebian> In what usage?
<LaserJock> if [[ $AUTOMAKE_VERSION = "1.4|1.5|1.6" ] ]  ; then
<bddebian> Hmm.  I think that should be OK, but I'm a moron :-)
<StevenK> %n@%m:%(5~|.../%2c|%~)%% if [[ $AUTOMAKE_VERSION = "1.4|1.5|1.6" ] ]  ; then echo yes ; fi
<StevenK> dash: [[: not found
<StevenK> Single [
<bddebian> Hmm, guess I was wrong as usual
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm really struggling here
<StevenK> $AUTOMAKE_VERSION should also be quoted
<LaserJock> I reinstalled Edgy and now some upstream stuff I'm working on doesn't work anymore
<LaserJock> ./autogen.sh scripts
<Simon80> :(
<LaserJock> I don't understand
<StevenK> Don't understand which?
<LaserJock> they were working
<LaserJock> I did a reinstallation and now they don't
<StevenK> Perhaps your shell didn't change to dash?
<Burgundavia> somerville32: can xubuntu reuse the gnome-games package?
<somerville32> No
<somerville32> Not currently at least
<somerville32> We thought there might be a compile option to disable the gnome stuff but apparently it doesn't exist.
<Burgundavia> might be better to work on that, instead
<somerville32> Jani doesn't think so
<Burgundavia> right
<somerville32> What the poop
<somerville32> My e-mail to ubuntu-devel bounced
<Burgundavia> bounced or stuck in the moderation queue?
<somerville32> stuck in mod queue
<Burgundavia> I can clear it
<somerville32> Thanks
<somerville32> My e-mails have never been modded before
<somerville32> Why are they now?
<Burgundavia> different addy?
<Burgundavia> oh, wait, the new devel list
<somerville32> Nope
<somerville32> Oh, doh.
<somerville32> Can I get whitelisted?
<Burgundavia> if you are a dev or motu
<somerville32> Does Xubuntu dev count?
<Burgundavia> motu or dev teams in LP
<somerville32> I'm a member of the xubuntu dev team in LP
<somerville32> But not the ubuntu dev team
<Burgundavia> right, not certain
<crimsun> probably not.
<somerville32> crimsun: A core-dev can promote to main, right?
<somerville32> ie. you
<somerville32> haha
<crimsun> can...what?
<somerville32> Can a core-dev approve a main inclusion report?
<Burgundavia> only the securirty team does it, which currently means pitti
<crimsun> if you mean promote a universe->main, no. Only a member of ubuntu-archive can promote, and only pitti can approve an MIR.
<somerville32> Doh
<bddebian> Has bmonty been around at all lately?
<Fujitsu> I haven't seen him.
<crimsun> about a week or so ago
<Fujitsu> What a large number of tags people have used for bugs...
* Fujitsu notes the tag list is starting to look like a complete computer dictionary.
<imbrandon> crimsun: i think keescook can do MIR's too now
<imbrandon> iirc
<Fujitsu> Evening, pointy-stick bearer.
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Shit, what's the best way to get a diff of a native package since there is no diff.gz file?
<Fujitsu> diff -pruN
<Fujitsu> Or thereabouts.
<Fujitsu> A debdiff would do it.
<bddebian> I don't have the Debian version to compare against
<imbrandon> debdiff *.dsc > blah.debdiff ?
<Fujitsu> bddebian: Why not?
<bddebian> 'cause it's an old Debian version and I'm too lazy to go look in Debian snapshots :)
<Fujitsu> Merging?
<bddebian> Yeah
* Hobbsee should do some of that
<Fujitsu> bddebian: Doesn't MoM have the appropriate version?
<bddebian> Dunno, I usually do all my merges manually :-)
* Fujitsu kicks MoM and hopes it turns on again.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: did you or LaserJock have a deb of mdt ?
<Fujitsu> LJ, AFAIK.
<imbrandon> k
* imbrandon is trying to get those scripts running on his new server
<Fujitsu> At your place, or externally hosted?
<imbrandon> i colo'd a new box on a phat connection here at work
<imbrandon> :)
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<Hobbsee> nice!
* Fujitsu wonders how he can convince MDT to filter by component.
<imbrandon> i just got it setup tonight 
<imbrandon> infact thats where i'm irc'd in from :)
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<imbrandon> i only have one hostname pointing to it right now ( voyager.imbrandon.com ) but i'm going to move all of imbrandon.com to it cept horatio and enterprise
<imbrandon> over the next week or so
<imbrandon> and get us some usefull scripts running on crons hopefully
<imbrandon> well thats the plan anyhow
<bddebian> Damn Fujitsu have you done ALL the merges? :-)
<Fujitsu> I'd have done more if stupid MoM hadn't failed :(
* Fujitsu whips up a MoM equivalent.
<Hobbsee> bddebian: i believe ubuntu-universe-sponsors has a whole lot of stuff to look up, sort, and upload, i fyou wanted to do that
<bddebian> Hobbsee: I guess so since Fujitsu has done all my merges already :-)
<Hobbsee> good man :)
<bddebian> Is that different than motureviewers?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Where is that??
<Hobbsee> bddebian: it's a team on LP
<Hobbsee> i've never reviewed anything off MOTU reviewers - but i doubt it is
<bddebian> What's the team name?
<Fujitsu> They aren't the same, though they serve a similar function.
<Fujitsu> ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<bddebian> I thought I tried that.. Hmm
<Hobbsee> bddebian: lp.net/people/hobbsee and pick the one that i'm the owner of
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I doubt that there is any stuff on u-u-s' todo list... crimsun handles everything within 30 seconds.
<imbrandon> lol
<bddebian> Ah there it is.  33 there, 34 on motureviewers :-)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: there were lots of subscribed bugs.  but crimsun's good at that, yes
<imbrandon> probably some overlap from people that dident know what one
<imbrandon> to use
<bddebian> I guess I stayed away too long.. Now I'm no longer needed... *sniff* *sniff*
<Fujitsu> Eek, still 228 merges to go.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: lots are out of date, remember?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: so did i.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: No, this is my list.
<Fujitsu> I just generated it then.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahh right.  want to put it somewhere?
<Fujitsu> http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html#outdatedandlocalinB
<Fujitsu> (it's updated on the half-hour, and hopefully won't explode for 3 days)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: dig the mdt deb out of your apt cache for me :)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It's an old version, and I'm not even sure it's from a deb.
<imbrandon> dident you have patch that it needed anyhow ?
<imbrandon> ahh
* DBO pokes imbrandon 
* imbrandon pouts , guess i'll get them working tomarrow
<DBO> beryl 0.1.3 tagged
<imbrandon> ello DBO 
* Fujitsu runs
<imbrandon> ok DBO can it wait ~12 hours ? i was about to head to bed hehehe
<DBO> get it before digg crashes out servers =P
<imbrandon> LOL
<DBO> thats perfectly ok
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> i'll get it when i wake up, there are tarbals made right? and the mesa cruft isnt in the source anymore ?
<DBO> the mesa cruft was moved to a seperate tarball
<DBO> gentoo wanted it
<Hobbsee> hey DBO 
<DBO> but you just skip it
<DBO> heya Hobbsee 
<imbrandon> k
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<imbrandon> yea same here
<imbrandon> gnight all
<Simon80> dagnammit, it's too hard to find a good howto on making your own pool repo
<Simon80> anyone know how to use apt-ftparchive?
<Fujitsu> Simon80: Considered Falcon?
<Simon80> no, I didn't, I guess I should..
<Simon80> I don't like using 3rd party tools if I can avoid it... I'm like that
<Simon80> I'm officially fed up now though, sticking to my trivial repo
<_Enchained> hi here
<LaserJock> I'm not sure falcon is exactly 3rd party
<LaserJock> I haven't used it yet though
<Fujitsu> Falcon is a little more 3rd party than some other stuff, but not by much.
<_Enchained> someone to review my package ?
<Hobbsee> where?
<_Enchained> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3697
<Gloubiboulga> _Enchained: already awake! ;)
<_Enchained> Gloubiboulga: no
<_Enchained> not slepped
<_Enchained> lol
<Gloubiboulga> _Enchained: *g* I can't do this :)
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know of a good way to see what compenents a package's deps are in?
<_Enchained> I live the night and sleep the day ^^
<Hobbsee> looks pretty clean to me
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock: there's no tool for that AFAIK
<Fujitsu> You'd have to get the depends, then madison, I suppose.
<Hobbsee> oh wait, found an error
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I think I'll write a script
<_Enchained> Hobbsee: ?
<Hobbsee> _Enchained: spelling error
<_Enchained> where ?
<Hobbsee> writing on revu
<_Enchained> ok
* Fujitsu fetches his {grammar,spelling}-police whip.
<Hobbsee> _Enchained: where are you from?
<_Enchained> france
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: that's what i'm looking at it for - the rest looks fine
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: where are you from?
<_Enchained> france too I think
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee: France as well
<Hobbsee> gotcha
<_Enchained> 2 frenchies with a bad english spelling ? :p
<Gloubiboulga> hehe :)
<crimsun> don't worry, we have plenty of native English speakers who spell and speak [grammatically]  far worse
<Gloubiboulga> that's one of the reasons why we should keep the two reviews to ack a package IMO
<Hobbsee> crimsun: OH I KNOW
<Hobbsee> sorry, capslock
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: i'm not comfortable being the only ack for a package, to be honest
<Hobbsee> i dont know everything - far from it
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee: I feel the same way
* Fujitsu feels the same way too.
* somerville32 feels the same way too.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Yeah, it's really bad!
<Fujitsu> soz, yah its rly bad!
<Hobbsee> _Enchained: suggested a better description
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: can you check mine, and see if there's any better way to put it?
<_Enchained> ok I look at it
* ajmitch wonders if there's anything left for him to do on universe
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: there are still bugs in malone
<ajmitch> haven't bddebian & Fujitsu fixed them all?
<Hobbsee> i dont think so
<ajmitch> surprising
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: That zope-zms sync is something you should deal with! It's a whole 0.5% of our science bug stats.
<ajmitch> ZOMG OH NOES!
<DarkMageZ> the apport-retrace tool, if i call it without -d then it works fine (tho not as detailed as i would wish). if i call it with -d then i get http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36227/ , any ideas?
<tsmithe> Laser_away: i know you're away. but i uploaded a new asoundconf-gtk, and so the url on your todo list will have changed. it's now at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3723
<tsmithe> thanks muchly
<tsmithe> hang on
<tsmithe> that was bad
<tsmithe> link now: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3723
<zakame> hi all
* zakame merges libbonobomm1.3
<tsmithe> someone wanna review asoundconf-gtk?
* tsmithe needs another revu'er
<Gloubiboulga> hello zakame 
<Gloubiboulga> highvoltage: tsmithe 
<tsmithe> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> arg
<tsmithe> highvoltage?
<Gloubiboulga> hi tsmithe 
<Gloubiboulga> <tab> magic ;)
<tsmithe> ah
<tsmithe> :)
<highvoltage> hi Gloubiboulga :)
<zakame> yo Gloubiboulga 
* highvoltage gets that a lot on IRC :-D
<zakame> just done libbonobomm1.3, looks like just a sync :)
<zakame> hmm, what next?
<zakame> Hobbsee: mind if I do some of you pkgs?
<Hobbsee> zakame: go for it
* Hobbsee hasnt found much motivation to merge things
<zakame> cool, thanks :)
<zakame> Hobbsee: how come no mojo?
<Hobbsee> no idea.  been away
<zakame> ah
<zakame> I need a break from learning Java (and preparing to get back to motujava again)
<zakame> ok, on kfocus now
<Hobbsee> zakame: for anything with kde extras team as the maintainer in debian, ping me - we're trying to chuck all our changes into debian, and just sync them
<zakame> okm noted :D
<Hobbsee> thought there was a sync requested for that, iirc
<zakame> yes, bug#74255 already fixed
<zakame> funny still in the universe mreges list :/
<zakame> next then :)
<Hobbsee> oh, MOM's broekn it seems
<StevenK> Indeed.
<StevenK> She hasn't updated for a little while.
<tenshu> hi all
<okaratas> hi
<tenshu> Is there any doc on building a java application for ubuntu?
<zakame> yo tenshu 
<zakame> hmm that's a good question... for ubuntu, or *on* ubuntu?
<tenshu> huu for ubuntu
<tenshu> i found a good Point Of Sale Management app but in java
<zakame> java ee?
<tenshu> what?
<zakame> I mean is it a java ee app?
<tenshu> i think so, the author provide 2 archives on with all .java files and an other with compiled .jar
<zakame> i see... actually that's question that I could ask so myself
<zakame> did you see the install requirements for that app? what does it say?
<tenshu> well java jre, java connector with mysql
<tenshu> there is a tutorial for debian
<tenshu> i think libgcj7-awt is needed too
<zakame> ah... I suppose you can follow the debian tutorial then
<zakame> you can get the jre via sun-java5-jre
<tenshu> ok, there is no "special things you must know" for the packaging process
<zakame> brb
<okaratas> hi
<Gloubiboulga> highvoltage: hi, and congrats for tuXlab, it sounds amazing
<highvoltage> Gloubiboulga: thanks :)
<Gloubiboulga> highvoltage: would it be possible to get a DVD ?
<highvoltage> Gloubiboulga: yep, e-mail me, and I'll keep your name on record, we'll be printing dvd's shortly. we'll only have limited amounts, but I could sent you one
<Gloubiboulga> highvoltage: thanks! what's you email address ?
<highvoltage> Gloubiboulga: e-mail me at jonathan@inkululelo.co.za with your details and postal address
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian :)
<bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> highvoltage: Delivery Status Notification for the mail I just sent to you
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<highvoltage> Gloubiboulga: oops, made a typo, should be: jonathan@inkululeko.co.za
<Gloubiboulga> highvoltage: ok, sent
<highvoltage> Gloubiboulga: got it!
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<bddebian> Hobbsee: What's the point of looking at universe-sponsor list when you and crimsun have done them all? :-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: i havent.  start from the bottom :P
<proppy> crimsun: ping
<proppy> crimsun: pypoker-eval successfully synced, thanks
<proppy> crimsun: but the r-dependency are still tagged as Missing Dependencies:  	python-pypoker-eval
<proppy> is this only a matter of time ?
<proppy> according to the build log it was started at : 20061207-1134
<proppy> and it was sync the 1208, so i guess i shall just wait the next build pas
<proppy> +s
<geser> Hobbsee: what about bug 71197? "Rejected" or "Fix Released"?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71197 in terminal "Ctrl+v doesn't work in terminal" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71197
<Hobbsee> geser: whichever.  released
<Hobbsee> geser: either takes it out of the search lists
<geser> why are bug watches for fixed Ubuntu bugs still listed?
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure
<bddebian> geser: I was just looking at 71197, I would say reject :-)
<rmjb> morning all
<bddebian> Heya rmjb
<bddebian> Ack, wtf is the deal with the patch for 68454??
<rmjb> bddebian: where are you exactly? AU?
<bddebian> US
<rmjb> okay... you seem to be on a completely opposite timezone from me :)
<shawarma> I see many people put something like "Fixes: LP#42424" in the Debian changelog. Is this used for any sort of automatic closing of bugs or something? If so, what is the format?
<shawarma> As a MOTU, I've only been doing merges so far, so I'm not too familiar with the bug handling process. Do we manually set bugs to "fix committed" and "fix released"?
<bddebian> Yes
<bddebian> And usually the Bug # is put in the changelog to reference why the change was made afaik
<shawarma> Any particular reason for this? When looking at the Debian BTS it seems they parse the changelogs and see if there are any "Fixes #42334" and then closes the bug accordingly. 
<bddebian> You'd have to ask the LP people.  I don't think it parses changelogs
<phanatic> shawarma: it's not yet implemented into LP
<shawarma> phanatic: Oh, ok. So it's not by design?
<phanatic> shawarma: i think it's planned (for bazaar at least, but once it's implemented in one product, it shouldn't be difficult to get it into another)
<shawarma> phanatic: bazaar? As in bzr?
<phanatic> shawarma: yeah, it's called bazaar now :)
<shawarma> phanatic: I see. So I'm going to be able to trigger certaing actions based on commit message content in bzr^H^H^Hbazaar? Clever.
<phanatic> exactly
<rmjb> can someone give me a hand with using dh_install to move a file that the upstream's makefile installs into the wrong place according to debian's policy?
<bddebian> rmjb: You can either put it in a .install file or just use cp or mv in debian/rules
<rmjb> I was advised to use something other than mv
<bddebian> Does it already have a .install file?
<rmjb> no, it's one I'm doing from scratch
<rmjb> but my first and most basic question is... where should that command be in the debian/rules file?
<rmjb> in the install rule after the call to make install?
<rmjb> or in the binary-indep rule (it's a java app)
<shawarma> rmjb: I'd vote for install.
<bddebian> binary-arch: or binary-indep:
<rmjb> okay, cool
<rmjb> now the impression I get from the dh_install(1) man page is that my .install file would have to list *all* the files in the package, even if I want to move just one?
<bddebian> You can do dh_install foo bar to do just one file I think but iirc it has some implications
<Adri2000> someone of the sru team available?
<rmjb> I hope someone is still here... so here's my predicament, I have this line in the binary-indep rule:
<rmjb> dh_install src/iriverter.jar usr/share/java
<rmjb> but pbuilder fails with:
<rmjb> dh_install src/iriverter.jar usr/share/java
<rmjb> cp: cannot stat `./usr/share/java/iriverter.jar': No such file or directory
<rmjb> I also have this line in iriverter.install:
<rmjb> usr/share/java/iriverter.jar
<rmjb> and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, just that it doesn't work
<Gloubiboulga> rmjb: try "dh_install -piriverter src/iriverter.jar usr/share/java"
<Gloubiboulga> and your .install is useless I think
<shawarma> Gloubiboulga: -piriverter ?!?
<Gloubiboulga> shawarma: iriverter is the package name, right ? or did I miss something ?
<shawarma> Gloubiboulga: Oh.. LOL! 
<shawarma> Gloubiboulga: Maybe, I don't know.
<shawarma> Gloubiboulga: I just thought it was some magic, undocumented option that created the directories you needed. :-)
<shawarma> rmjb: The problem is that usr/share/java doesn't exist.
<Gloubiboulga> shawarma: no no :)
<rmjb> in the build system you mean?
<shawarma> rmjb: if you try to copy a file to a directory that doesn't exists, that's the error you're going to get.
<shawarma> rmjb: Yes.
* Gloubiboulga tries dh_install moo
<Gloubiboulga> doesn't work...
<rmjb> it worked! thanks Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> great :)
<rmjb> that -p option was not documented in the man page for dh_install anywhere
<Gloubiboulga> it's a common debhelper option
<rmjb> oh
<Gloubiboulga> it should be in man debhelper 
<rmjb> patch files must begin with a number?
<jdong> geser: thanks for your help on flexbackup; the latest upload works perfectly
<shawarma> Do you guys usually put anything speciel in the bug comment when setting the status to "Fix Released"? Perhaps the contents of the .changes file?
<shawarma> rmjb: Prepending a number makes it clear in which order the patches should be applied, so yes.
<rmjb> thanks for all you guys help with dh_install and patching
<Czessi> Hi, any MOTU here to review a package?
<tsmithe> anyone up for revu-age?
<imbrandon> moins all
<tsmithe> hi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> hello tsmithe 
<vil> hi, I need some help with modifying bug #68623. can I ask someone?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68623 in eclipse-pydev "pydev dependencies" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68623
<imbrandon> vil: sure modifying how?
<vil> this bug applies rather to eclipse than to eclipse-pydev
<vil> I already created bug in eclipse #72211
<vil> bug #72211
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72211 in eclipse "Eclipse in Edgy, dependency problems" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72211
<imbrandon> ahh then just reject the first one
<vil> shall i mark it as duplicate or redirect it somehow to the new one?
<somerville32> Mark it as a duplicate, yes.
<imbrandon> its not a dupe if it dosent effect that package, it should be rejected
* tsmithe would love someone to revu his package
<somerville32> imbrandon: So, he should reject the first one, add an apply to the real pacakge, and mark as a duplicate
<imbrandon> no
<somerville32> If the bug is the same, then it doesn't matter if the original bug reporter put it under the wrong package.
<imbrandon> you are making it far two complicated, just reject the wrong bug, the new one is correct, leave as is
<imbrandon> somerville32: yes it does
<imbrandon> it matters alot when you goto search
<somerville32> imbrandon: Right, and all the data collected in the first bug will be lost.
<somerville32> *bug report
<imbrandon> if i'm searching a packages bugs and i see a bug that dosent belong in that package ity should be rejected peroid
<somerville32> Right
<imbrandon> somerville32: no it needs to be put into the new one
<imbrandon> it wont be lost
<imbrandon> not if the new bug is filed correctly
<somerville32> It isn't, thats the problem
<imbrandon> well then fix the new bug, dont create more of a problem marking it a dupe when its not
<somerville32> He needs to change the affected package in the first bug report and mark the second as a duplicate.
<somerville32> I thought he said that both bugs were the same
<somerville32> Just wrong package
<imbrandon> omfg /me gives up, NO NO NO
<imbrandon> <detaches>
* somerville32 rolls eyes.
<imbrandon> somerville32: please talk to sflaw or someone on the triage teams about filing dupe reports, that is NOT the correct way
<imbrandon> that is the lazy way that clutters LP
* imbrandon gets back to work
<somerville32> vil, Can you join #ubuntu-bugs?
<tsmithe> is there no-one free to revu?
<tsmithe> :(
<tsmithe> guess not
<imbrandon> tsmithe: i will later
<tsmithe> yay!
<tsmithe> thanks muchly
<tsmithe> linky: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3725
<imbrandon> tsmithe: i'll poke dholbach too about a revu day
<tsmithe> woot!
<imbrandon> no link needed, i'll just browse revu , if its there we go though them as we have time :)
<tsmithe> ?
<imbrandon> ??
<tsmithe> jenda?
<tsmithe> somerville32?
<phanatic> lol
<somerville32> Nothing to see here folks, move along :P
<chantra> hi there
<chantra> could somebody revu subtitleeditor http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3728
<chantra> so far 0.10.1 is in the repo, but 0.12.2 is much more faster
<chantra> and there is a few more languages tranlated
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3729
<nixternal> ^^ revu
<nixternal> gotta roll
<jaimevz> Any one here
<geser> no
<joejaxx> hello everyone :)
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<tsmithe> hi
<Sp4rKy> siretart: are you here ?
<siretart> wohoooo!
* siretart is currenly printing his thesis. finally!
<ajmitch> congrats :)
<siretart> ajmitch: thanks!
<Sp4rKy> siretart: hi
<siretart> hey Sp4rKy 
<Sp4rKy> i just need you now :p
<Sp4rKy> "my" revu has again a little issue
<Sp4rKy> when i upload a package 
<shawarma> siretart: congrats. What's it about?
* siretart has terrible headaches now. it started when translating my abstract to english. no idea if/how that's related
<Sp4rKy> siretart: i run process_uploads.sh
<Sp4rKy> but the date of the repository name and the date made by the "now()" in pgsql DB are not the same
<siretart> shawarma: http://paste.debian.net/18162 has the english abstract
<Sp4rKy> because between the "DIR=${INCOMING}/${PACKAGE}-$(date +%y%m%d%H%M)"
<Sp4rKy> and the "register_upload.py $changes" call
<Sp4rKy> there is some seconds
<Sp4rKy> siretart: any idea ? 
<Sp4rKy> (in fact, i don't understand who that can work :p)
<Sp4rKy> you must have a very very fast computer
<siretart> Sp4rKy: thats interesting. might be a locales problem, that on your system date and postgres disagree on the time?
<shawarma> siretart: Interesting.
<Sp4rKy> siretart: yep
<Sp4rKy> whereas they're on the same server
<Sp4rKy> siretart: but the 2 date are not done exactly at the same time
<Sp4rKy> because the mv process take some seconds
<siretart> Sp4rKy: oh. that's bad. but the date shouldn't contain seconds, only minutes
<Sp4rKy> yep, it does
<Sp4rKy> (my mistake
<Sp4rKy> )
<Sp4rKy> but the issue is the same
<Sp4rKy> i don't really why , but the time isn't the same
<Sp4rKy> really know why *
<jdong> is there any other way of getting wlanconfig and the other madwifi tools without using manual compilation?
<shawarma> jdong: madwifi-tools?
<siretart> jdong: madwifi-tools is (surprinsingly) in universe
<shawarma> jdong: ...assuming you're running Feisty.
<jdong> ah, it's in Feisty
<jdong> that's why I didn't see it
<shawarma> siretart: Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?
<jdong> siretart: sheesh not everyone runs feisty ;-)
<jdong> and that is totally an apt-cache search bug that it doesn't match feisty source packages :D
<jdong> does Dapper use madwifi-ng?
<shawarma> jdong: Both are present in Dapper.
<jdong> shawarma: which one is chosen out of the box?
<shawarma> jdong: However, all devices supported by madwifi-old have been removed from the madwifi-ng in Dapper.
<jdong> oh
<jdong> bleh, why does setting up a repeater have to be so involved... :d
<shawarma> jdong: hence: https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15/+bug/37773
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 37773 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 "[madwifi]  Semi-random system lockups in Dapper" [Critical,Confirmed]  
<jdong> very interesting...
<shawarma> jdong: Not really. Not if you own an X40, anyway.
<jdong> what makes an X40 so special?
<shawarma> jdong: It suffers badly from that bug.
<jdong> oh
<jdong> would Edgy work with madwifi-tools out-of-the-box?
<shawarma> jdong: The attentive reader will note that I reported that particular bug. :-)
<somerville32> Question: Does Edgy follow the new python policy or is that in Feisty?
<shawarma> jdong: I see no reason why not. I don't think the API for that has changed.
<jdong> shawarma: but would it work with Dapper?
<shawarma> jdong: I believe so.
<jdong> shawarma: doesn't madwifi-tools need the madwifi-ng style drivers?
<jdong> or am I making things up?
<shawarma> jdong: Well, in that bug I linked to, I describe how to use madwifi-ng instead of madwifi-old in which case you can use the same tools.
<shawarma> jdong: I don't really know if the API for *that* changed in the -old -> -ng transition.
<jdong> ok, thanks shawarma
<shawarma> any time.
<jdong> I think I'll just set the repeater box up as Edgy anyway
<jdong> I feel daring today
<jdong> (and no not feisty-daring)
<shawarma> Heh..
<shawarma> On my particular laptop, Edgy was a *lot* more stable than Dapper.
<jdong> shawarma: I'm working with 5-7 year old hardware here with the majority of hardware supported since the 2.2 kernel
<jdong> :D
<shawarma> :-)
<jdong> now to find a CD lying around that can do a minimal inst
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-03
<mok0> hehe :-)
<superm1_> according to http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html, it seems %U is for urls whereas %F is for a list of files directly
<mok0> I want to upload the near-perfect theseus package before ending tonite
<superm1_> so i think that %U makes more sense since it appears it can take either or
<norsetto> superm1_: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s06.html
<superm1_> do you agree?
<norsetto> superm1_: yes, it makes sense
<superm1_> okay i'll finish this merge then now :)
<norsetto> oh well, that was the coup de grace
<norsetto> g'night all .....
<superm1_> night
<azeem> 33
<azeem> oops
<mok0> Well goodnight folks, it was good fun
<jdong> that's what... that's what.... *must resist* ahhh that's what she said!
<mok0> jdong: :-) hehe
<persia> mok0: About theseus: why gawk vs. mawk?  mawk is smaller and more efficient for most cases. (doesn't really matter: I just couldn't resist the challenge)
<dsop> some reviewer online?
<persia> dsop: Yes.  Which package?
<bddebian> Hey folks.  Anyone familiar with/run OpenSUSE?
<bddebian> persia: My buddy!! :-)
 * Fujitsu stabs bddebian over to #opensuse
<persia> bddebian: I haven't run SUSE since before Novell had an interest.  Can't really help you here.
<bddebian> persia: No I still have to bug you about comixcursors ;-P
 * StevenK has never run SuSE
<persia> bddebian: The preinst / postinst still doesn't work?
<dsop> persia: gcutils
<bddebian> I don't want to run SUSE, I want to figure out if they have patch clanbomber to build against clanlib 0.8
<bddebian> persia: No, I suck :-(  I think it should work.
<persia> dsop: It's best when advertising your package to put something like: "Could a reviewer please look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gcutils ?  I've addressed the last set of comments, and am looking for my first advocate".  I'll take a look, and let you know if I see anything in particular.
<persia> bddebian: The CVS is fairly easy to read, and the patches reasonably organised.  Take a look :)
<dsop> Okay persia, please can you review my package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gcutils. I tried to fix things and i'm looking for an advocate.
<dsop> persia: for sure you are right, i've to be friendly
<persia> dsop: Just comparing the debdiff to the last comments, I don't see the changes for the manpage differentiation.
<dsop> persia: because i'm the upstream author, i also changed the orig.tar.gz
<persia> dsop: Right.  That's what I get for looking at the debdiff :)
 * StevenK kicks automake
<bddebian> persia: Sorry, what CVS?
<persia> dsop: Looks fairly clean to me.  I don't have the tools available to put it through proper testing now, but perhaps another reviewer might.  If you're feeling especially cool, you might make the scripts point to the local license file pre-installation, and to the /usr/share/doc/ file post-installation, but that's certainly not important enough to block.
<dsop> persia: thx, i'll think about that.
<persia> bddebian: I'm not finding the link now: maybe google will be nicer to you.  http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/ has all the code though.
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
 * Fujitsu requests that rkward be given back on all archs but lpia and hppa.
 * Hobbsee waves
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: given back
<bddebian> Hmm, I can find the source rpm, does that help me any?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<persia> bddebian: Yes.  Unpack it.  There should be separated patches for all the changes.
<Hobbsee> no problem
<bddebian> How do I unpack an rpm?
<Fujitsu> Use rpm2cpio, I guess.
<dsop> Hobbsee: online?
<dsop> i was told that you are a revu admin>
<Hobbsee> dsop: yes and yes
<dsop> i've a problem with my accound
<tonyyarusso> Could someone tell me their thoughts on Tormod Volden's comment at the bottom of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvu/+bug/99433 ?  It seems like it might make sense, but I'm not sure what policy issues might be involved.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 99433 in nvu "[needs-packaging] nvu html editor is not in the repositories" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<dsop> my key is synced, so i can upload packages, but i never received an email concerning my revu accopunt
<dsop> and if i try to recover, no message is display to descript
<dsop> descrypt
<dsop> decrypt...
<imbrandon> you dont get a new account untill you make your first upload
<persia> imbrandon: There are uploads
<dsop> Hobbsee: and I checked twice if i entered the right email address :)
<imbrandon> whats one of th uploads ?
<Hobbsee> dsop: which email address are you using, and have you uploaded anything to revu yet?
<persia> tonyyarusso: I don't think it makes sense for SRU, but it would be nice for LTS->LTS upgrades.
<dsop> sn_@gmx.net and yes i uploaded some packages (approx 10 times, and every package was shown on the revu site)
<tonyyarusso> persia: Fair point.  So I should just remember to do a second package for Hardy and not worry about the others too much?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Can you please give back the following? They're some of the remaining fallout from the texlive mess. ara, backup-manager, blitz++, bobcat, bochs, cfengine2, cffi, cjk, cl-asdf, cmucl
 * tonyyarusso guesses that a significant portion of the userbase is probably LTS - Edubuntu especially
<persia> tonyyarusso: I'd say so.  If there are people with leftovers from edgy, they should get fixed during gutsy -> hardy, but pushing NEW in SRU is discouraged.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: you deal with revu, i'll do the givebacks
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: ok
<tonyyarusso> persia: okay, thanks
<imbrandon> dsop: looking into it now
 * Fujitsu wonders if somebody can be poked into doing a mass-giveback soonl
<Fujitsu> s/l$/./
<dsop> imbrandon: thanks
 * persia thinks there are enough blow-by-blow givebacks happening that the "mass-give-back" won't have many candidates by the time it is decided.
 * emgent heya
<tonyyarusso> apachelogger__: ah, just saw the e-mail about you - and now I know what on earth this nick is!  Congrats.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: given back all but blitz++
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Because your buildd.py doesn't urlencode properly?
<Hobbsee> cjk also may be botched
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah
 * Fujitsu concocts a package name that does bad things.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: appears it doesn't like searching
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What?
<Hobbsee>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/re.py", line 134, in search
<Hobbsee>     return _compile(pattern, flags).search(string)
<Hobbsee>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/re.py", line 233, in _compile
<Hobbsee>     raise error, v # invalid expression
<Hobbsee> sre_constants.error: multiple repeat
<Hobbsee> (there's more than that)
<jdong> Hobbsee: oh that's a GREAT error message. Go python!
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> Traceback (most recent call last):
<Hobbsee>   File "/usr/local/bin/buildd.py", line 39, in <module>
<Hobbsee>     m = re.search('"/ubuntu/%s/\+source/%s/(\d[^"]+)"' % (release, package), page)
<Hobbsee> is the top bit
 * persia likes stacktraces
<jdong> Hobbsee: reminds me of a popular embedded chipset C compiler, whose only error message is "syntax error" or "Abort.
<jdong> :D
<imbrandon> dsop: hrm even looking at the code i dont know whats up, you will likely have to get siretart's attention and/or email him
<Hobbsee> hah!
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: What's the issue?
<imbrandon> i'd imagine its soemthing with the _ in your email
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/lostpw.py?email=sn_@gmx.net
<dsop> imbrandon: hm, okay
<dsop> imbrandon: do you have his email?
<imbrandon> dsop: i think Fujitsu is also looking into the issue
<dsop> k
<imbrandon> dsop: siretart@ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> if it comes to that
<TheMuso> Well. It is now a known fact that the upper blue mountains power grid is as flaky as the first Linux release. :p
<imbrandon> TheMuso: solar :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Trees + not enough sun most of the year.
<StevenK> Mmm. There's going to be a huge storm
<Hobbsee> oh dear
<Fujitsu> StevenK: We just had a lot of thunder and lightning here for about 45 minutes.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Probably similar to what we just had.
<TheMuso> StevenK: However your power grid will likely stay up.
<bddebian> OK so how the hell is rpm2cpio supposed to work?
<TheMuso> Unlike ours...
<StevenK> bddebian: rpm2cpio < .rpm > .cpio
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh fingers
<bddebian> StevenK: I tried that but it just dumps a bunch of crap to the console
<bddebian> Am I suppose to dump it to something?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Can you please resync the REVU keyring?
<persia> bddebian: The output is the .cpio file, no?
<StevenK> bddebian: Can you paste the exact command you ran?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I've sorted out dsop's issue (the key on keyserver.ubuntu.com was out of date).
<bddebian> rpm2cpio clanbomber-1.05-76.5.src.rpm
<Fujitsu> bddebian: Right, that will output the cpio archive to stdout.
<bddebian> Oh those are redirects not options for < foo > eh? :-)
<Fujitsu> Ahah, you're right, it did look a bit like that.
<bddebian> OK so then wtf do I do with a cpio file?
<Fujitsu> Use cpio to extract things from it.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: ahh
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: The UID containing that email address wasn't on REVU's keyring, so it died.
<bddebian> Well shit, that was a waste of time for nothing.. :-(  Thanks though StevenK, Fujitsu, persia
<persia> bddebian: No patches? :(
<bddebian> Yeah but not to build against clanlib 0.8
<bddebian> I'm freaking sucking more than usual lately :-(
<dsop> btw is there an review admin that might review my gcutils package. It would be really nice. So i please an revu reviewer to take a look at this package, as I tried to fix all the problems from the previous comments.
 * persia thinks it looks pretty good and someone should give it a proper review
<TheMuso> As soon as I've finished my buntuStudio work, I'll take a look.
<TheMuso> UbuntuStudio
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<bddebian> persia: If you get bored/have time: http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/comixcursors/
<joejaxx> persia: what is the policy on applying patches to software that is in the repository?
 * joejaxx never attempted to add his gnupg patch
<bddebian> Or if anyone else feels like seeing how I have f'd up the pre/post/rm/inst
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: ???
<joejaxx> it makes the maximum bit key limit higher :D
<joejaxx> instead of it being at 4096
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: no.  you may only add patches to newly done software.  nothing in the archive is allowed to be patched!
<joejaxx> :(
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> :)
<Hobbsee> :P
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: you can fix it in hardy
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: that is what i meant :D
<Hobbsee> :)
<joejaxx> right now the limit is 4096
<joejaxx> i want to make it higher lol
<persia> joejaxx: Patches are welcome, but new functional changes require a bit of justification.
<joejaxx> persia: the maximum is too low
<joejaxx> :P
<persia> bddebian: Be careful about publishing a signed changes file.
<bddebian> Gah, crap
<bddebian> thx
 * imbrandon uploads bddebian packages to ubuntu
<Fujitsu> persia: Best not upload to PPA, then.
<persia> Fujitsu: Does that expose .changes publically?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: what?!?
<Fujitsu> persia: In 1.1.10 in did, but it has been mostly fixed now.
<dsop> bddebian: you are running hurd? debian/hurd?
<Hobbsee> "semi-fixed"
<persia> Fujitsu: That's very dangerous.  If that's true, anyone on earth can put anything I put on a PPA directly into hardy.
<bddebian> dsop: On about 5 machines, yes
<Fujitsu> persia: Exactly.
<Hobbsee> persia: at least you don't have main upload rights
<joejaxx> bddebian: i have not tried that in a while, thanks for reminding me :D
<dsop> bddebian: wow, nice i've to try it out, but it's not that easy to get a lot of information about the current progress ,is it ?
<persia> Hobbsee: That's fine.  I only maintain 1 package in main anyway.
<Fujitsu> There was a semi-workaround put in place for 1.1.11, so it's not quite as blatant (ie. the links have been removed).
 * persia decides not to prep the libopenal1 transition in the PPA until 1.1.12 is out and fixes that.
<Fujitsu> Good idea.
<imbrandon> woot, $70 in my new computer fundraiser , its getting there :)
<joejaxx> lol :)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: grr all the more reason for them to clear my /pool
<bddebian> dsop: Sure it is, see the wiki on that same site. ;-)  http://www.bddebian.com/~wiki/  :-)
<persia> Pity though, as it allows for lots of acceleration on amd64 & powerpc.
<persia> Fujitsu: Do you happen to know the bug #?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's a private bug
<Fujitsu> persia: It's private4.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee might know it, though.
<Hobbsee> i don't
 * persia fails to subscribe, and hopes there will be public disclosure of the fix.
<imbrandon> ha
<Fujitsu> It's fairly safe at the moment.
<persia> Fujitsu: Safe enough to process an entire library transition with ~50 packages that might not work, and doesn't belong in hardy?
<Fujitsu> I probably wouldn't risk it.
 * persia rejects that definition of "fairly safe2
<persia> bddebian: Looks sane to me, but might be worth a mention in the changelog.  I can't test now :(
<proppy> I finally managed to compile juce against it's packaged external dependencies
<proppy> instead of relying on inlined sources in the tarball
<persia> proppy: Excellent.  You get a gold star!
<proppy> persia: thanks for supporting !
<proppy> next step will be to be the new upstream
<proppy> I don't know if there are any guidance in this field
<proppy> I guess just crafting a new tarball and host it on a http is not enought
<bddebian> persia: It doesn't work, I've tried it.  I get: /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: 13: ComixCursors-Orange-Regular: not found
 * persia looks again, more carefully
<persia> bddebian: Try putting quotes around REPLACE_ME_SHIP_LIST.  I suspect it's doing something like `REPLACE_ME_SHIP_LIST=/some/theme/file /some/other/theme/file and attempts to execute the second argument.
<bddebian> I was just thinking that a minute ago.
<choudesh> Hi all.
<choudesh> I would like to join the MOTU team - but I need a mentor first
<imbrandon> choudesh: well you dont "need"
<imbrandon> a mentor to help
<imbrandon> and after helping a while you will be invited to join
<choudesh> imbrandon: true - I would like the help of a mentor. ;-)
<choudesh> imbrandon: I know how to package debs - just not sure what needs to be packaged. is there a launchpad page on what needs to be packaged?
<imbrandon> ahh okies :) well in that case i would email the mentors front desk as usgested on the wiki
<imbrandon> and request one to be assigned
<choudesh> imbrandon: can I get some linkage to the front desk?
<imbrandon> choudesh: well NEW packages really arent the best way for new contributors IMHO, you might check qa.ubuntuwire.com for bugs
<imbrandon> to get some experince
<imbrandon> and buys taged "bite-size" on LP are also good
<imbrandon> bugs*
<bddebian> persia: Well at least it acts differently: :-)
<bddebian> /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: 35: SHIP_LIST: not found
<bddebian> /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: 35: TMP_THEME: not found
<choudesh> imbrandon: seems at the moment all bitesize bugs have fixes proposed. ;-(
<imbrandon> sure then apply the fixes and request a sponsord upload :)
<imbrandon> thats the point of them
<choudesh> how do I request a sponser upload?
 * emgent heya
<persia> choudesh: I'd recommend reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing to get started.  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php is a good list of packages that need work.
<Hobbsee> morning mdomsch
<mdomsch> good evening Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: keep up with the times, will you?
<Hobbsee> it's 3pm!
<Hobbsee> 5pm, even!
 * Hobbsee mutters about backwards people :)
<bddebian> Damnit, fixed that, now getting a grep usage error :-(
<mdomsch> you're always a step (or 17 time zones) ahead of me
<persia> bddebian: Put quotes around $(TMP_THEME) :)
<mdomsch> http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/75123?comment_id=98964#comment98964
<mdomsch> rough draft of how to do BIOS updates on 240+ Dell system types from within Ubuntu
<imbrandon> heya mdomsch
<mdomsch> greetings imbrandon
<persia> bddebian: Also, line 14 might benefit from sed -n "s!$(ICONDIR)/\(.*\).theme/p"
<persia> Err.. "s!$(ICONDIR)!\(.*\).theme!p"
<persia> single quotes won't expand the variable, and there's not usually a good reason to call sed twice.
<bddebian> Oh, use double quotes instead of single quotes?
<imbrandon> zomg, i got past the iniramfs bug on hardy ppc and got X and all working :)
<persia> bddebian: If you want $(ICONDIR) to mean anything :)  You might need to escape * - best to test.
<imbrandon> means UW will soon have a ppc box to access soonish
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> brb
<persia> mdomsch: Might it be worth adding `aptitude install $(bootstrap_firmware -a)` in a small wrapper so people don't need to remember commands?
<mdomsch> persia, yeah; on other distros it's yum install $(bootstrap_firmware) or up2date -i $(bootstrap_firmware -u)
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: do you have a lsit of all the dell systems that works on?
<mdomsch> and apt-get is *supposed* to be able to ignore not-available packages, but it doesn't
<mdomsch> Hobbsee, not really; most have "pretty names", but there are a few I don't have the name mappings for yet
 * Hobbsee nods
<mdomsch> basically, every system sold in the past 4-5 years, modulo a few with very early and broken update capability
<persia> mdomsch: Maybe you could have /usr/sbin/install-firmware-updates that checks /etc/release (or whatever), determines $dist and calls one of `yum install $(bootstrap_firmware)`. `up2date -i $(bootstrap_firmware -u)` or `aptitude install $(bootstrap_firmware -a)`
<mdomsch> and modulo a few of the newest Vostro systems
<mdomsch> persia, yes, a 'download_firmware' app would be a welcome addition I agree
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: nice :)
 * Hobbsee wonders if there's anything of interest in them
 * persia doesn't have tools available now, but thinks it's a 10-15 line shell script.
<persia> mdomsch: I guess the only thing that confuses me in particular is the for loop.  Should be able to do without that.  The rest looks rather exciting.
<mdomsch> persia, yeah, it should be
<mdomsch> the only challenge is knowing which tool should be used
<mdomsch> when multiple tools are present
<persia> mdomsch: Of apt-get, aptitude, or dpkg?  They should all be present by default.
<mdomsch> apt-get vs aptitude vs yum vs up2date vs Novell tool hell vs
<persia> heh.  I see now.  I would think that /etc/lsb-release should provide hints, but it's a fair bit of detective work.
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: the solution to that is, of course, trivial
<mdomsch> Hobbsee, when we sell considerably more Ubuntu/Debian systems than we do Red Hat systems on the whole, I'd agree with you.  We're not there yet. :-)
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: if [! -e /usr/bin/dpkg]: ubuntu.install().  or something.
<persia> Hobbsee: doesn't help.  dpkg.rpm is available.  /etc/lsb-release is the key.
<Hobbsee> my syntax sounds wrong
<mdomsch> persia, not all distros provide that by default :-(
<mdomsch> but I could make firmware-tools depend on it I suppose...
<Hobbsee> if they don't, format them to ubuntu. i tell you, the problem is trivial!
<persia> mdomsch: They should.  Not providing that is a bug.  Not providing aptitutde or up2date or yum or what-have-you is a distro decision.
<pwnguin> mdomsch: actually, i have a slight question -- does the script check for battery power?
<mdomsch> pwnguin, no - that's an interesting idea though
<mdomsch> the actual flash happens after a reboot, during very early POST
<mdomsch> and *that* does check for AC
<bddebian> persia: Nice, well I got no errors and everything seems to work but I don't really know if it did the right thing for update-alternatives..
<pwnguin> ok
<pwnguin> what happens if ac isnt found?
<Fujitsu> mdomsch: Ah, that's nice.
<persia> So what happens if you prep for flash update on batteries?  Is the system in a good state after reboot?
<mdomsch> pwnguin, the it tells you it can't flash and continues without flashing
<mdomsch> persia, yes
<pwnguin> how visible is that warning about the flash?
 * Hobbsee wonders what happens if the flash fails.
<persia> bddebian: Test case: install the package from the repos.  update-alternatives to a new theme.  upgrade to your version.  make sure your theme didn't get reset.
<persia> mdomsch: Ah.  Good :)
<mdomsch> pwnguin, it's on the screen for several seconds
<bddebian> persia: Oh aye, duh :-)
<pwnguin> it might make sense to add a info popup (however that's done) to inform users that power is needed on reboot
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: We laugh at you.
<Hobbsee> awww
<mdomsch> Hobbsee, if the flash starts writing to the flash, and fails midway through for some reason, you're in trouble of course
<Hobbsee> oh, if the flash fails, we blame mdomsch, and come and kill him.  got it.
<mdomsch> but I've never seen that happen
 * Fujitsu looks for BIOS upgrades for his Inspiron.
 * Hobbsee just wants a battery upgrade :P
<mdomsch> that's one of the reasons it's done by BIOS itself during POST - there's few things that can go wrong short  of yanking the power cord
<bddebian> Oh and stop shipping broadcom wireless adapters in your laptops.. ;-P
<pwnguin> out of curiosity, what happens if the power cord is pulled halfway through a flash?
<persia> mdomsch: it's only likely in cases of sudden power failure or extreme environmental conditions.
<mdomsch> bddebian, we don't sell those with our Ubuntu systems :-)
<pwnguin> mdomsch: assuming a battery backup, of course
<Fujitsu> Hopefully the battery is charged enough.
<bddebian> mdomsch: Ah nice.  Smart.
 * Hobbsee only managed to land one broadcom component
<Fujitsu> Mine has Broadcom Ethernet NIC, but that works fine.
<pwnguin> mdomsch: also, this two stage install can introduce semantic inconsistancies -- the package can be "installed" but the BIOS can still be out of date. im not sure what can be done about that though
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: 6400?
<Fujitsu> Other than parts of the card reader, everything works flawlessly.
<bddebian> Both laptops I "borrowed" from work had them.  Luckily we had a few other so I switched to the Intel's that they had. -)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: 630m.
<mdomsch> broadcom wired is fine, wireless sucks with Linux
<persia> pwnguin: postinst?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahhh.  what, even now?
<mdomsch> it's easily remedied with a $30 "customer kit"
<pwnguin> persia: on a reboot?
<Fujitsu> mdomsch: ie. new MiniPCI card?
<mdomsch> Fujitsu, yep
<persia> pwnguin: On install.  State is inconsistent until next powered reboot.  Notification to the user that powered reboot is required.
<mdomsch> pwnguin, sure - I can have 240 bios images "installed", though only 1 would be appropriate for my system
<mdomsch> I've got a bootable USB key like that, for manually running the update tool
<pwnguin> anyways, i like the idea
<pwnguin> just wanted to double check that it's not a recipe for disaster once digg finds out
<mdomsch> pwnguin, we've been using it on RPM-based systems for a couple years
<Fujitsu> mdomsch: Out of interest, will it reflash the first time you're powered, or only on the first reboot?
<mdomsch> Fujitsu, only on the first reboot
<Fujitsu> OK.
<mdomsch> because the tool itself only throws the image into memory, and sets a cmos flag
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<mdomsch> BIOS POST sees the flag, re-assembles the image, and does the flash
<Hobbsee> and kaboom!
<mdomsch> http://linux.dell.com/firmware-tools  for more details
<mdomsch> Hobbsee, always the pessimist :-)
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: :P
<Fujitsu> Are there changelogs for the BIOSes around somewhere?
<pwnguin> mdomsch: anyways, i brought up the semantics not because of the 240 images, but because you may have 0 installed if you reboot on battery
<mdomsch> Fujitsu, great question
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: so i've been told.  but really, watching things blow up is fun!
<Hobbsee> assuming they're not *my* things, of couse
<pwnguin> Hobbsee: only when you have spares
<mdomsch> Fujitsu, yes there are, but they're not included in the BIOS packages posted on support.dell.com, so they're not included in the .deb packages either
<pwnguin> these days, you cant be a good computer student without a second computer ;)
<Fujitsu> It's only fun when you can see the magic smoke *and* have a spare.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: as someone else does teh blowing up, and on their own equipment, it's all good
<mdomsch> they're posted separately on support.dell.com alongside the windows images
<mdomsch> which sucks
<Hobbsee> well, i'm surprised my toshiba hasn't caught fire yet.
<mdomsch> and is something we're looking to get changed
<Fujitsu> Ah, found it.
<LaserJock> evening MOTU land!
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<Fujitsu> How'd I guess.
<Fujitsu> *?
<mdomsch> pwnguin, run 'update_firmware' again and it'll tell you. :-)
 * persia fondly remembers the IBM 5151
<pwnguin> mdomsch: i dont own any dells, but its encouraging the progress im seeing ;)
<mdomsch> pwnguin, it's just a framework - it could be extended to handle IBM, Toshiba, ...
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: id' really prefer not to test on my production machine :P
<mdomsch> we spoke with the IBM team a few months ago about it, they liked the idea
<bddebian> Crap, didn't seem to work
<pwnguin> mdomsch: anyways, as long as you prompt the user to remind them about AC before reboot, sounds good
<mdomsch> there's one more catch
<mdomsch> depending on the age of the system, you may need to reboot, run update_firmware, reboot again
 * Fujitsu blinks.
<Fujitsu> 1. Update 2006 Intel logo.
<mdomsch> because it needs 1-2MB _physically contiguous" kernel memory
<Fujitsu> What a useful update.
<persia> bddebian: OK.  Now, take a backup of everything, and run one script at a time, to figure out what breaks.  Might be the new theme installation.
<mdomsch> which we've fixed for newer systems
<mdomsch> the first reboot gives you a better chance of your memory not being too fragmented yet
<pwnguin> i dont do any kernel hacking, but what happens if you request a kmalloc of 2MB and theres no existing holes big enough?
<mdomsch> pwnguin, 1) you can't kmalloc >128KB; you use get_free_pages()
<mdomsch> 2) get_free_pages fails, and the error is reported to update_firmware to tell you
<pwnguin> so the kernel doesnt push user memory into VM to make more room
<mdomsch> pwnguin, no
<imbrandon> mdomsch: gonna make packages to flash the PERC controlers too ? hehe
 * imbrandon would love that
<mdomsch> imbrandon, we have them in RPMs yes, so it's quite conceivable
<pwnguin> imbrandon: you need to get a new email server or something
<imbrandon> mdomsch: rockin
<Fujitsu> PERC?
<mdomsch> imbrandon, patches welcome... :-)
<imbrandon> pwnguin: i havent resent
<imbrandon> mdomsch: the only box i could "test" on only has a PERC 3
<imbrandon> :(
<mdomsch> upgrade!
<imbrandon> but mostly we have 5's in production with an occasional 4
<Hobbsee> speakinig of upgrades..
<imbrandon> mdomsch: heh trust me all our production systems are on the 4hour plan :)
 * Fujitsu wonders why the Inspiron 630m doesn't have a bios package.
<Fujitsu> Or at least it's not detecting any.
 * Fujitsu checks Packages.
<pwnguin> mdomsch: well, as long as that old system setup fails gracefully, that's at least something that can be addresed or fixed
<imbrandon> mdomsch: are the .spec / srpms files available for the PERC firmware ?
<mdomsch> Fujitsu, running as root?
<imbrandon> i might be able to convert them
<mdomsch> Fujitsu, 'sudo bootstrap_firmware | grep -i bios'
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: PERC is the raid controlers in most modern dell rack servers
<imbrandon> maybe other things too
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Ahh.
<Fujitsu> mdomsch: Ahh, I didn't sudo it.
<mdomsch> Fujitsu, yeah, it needs root to make the call to get the system type
<Fujitsu> So I just got PCI IDs.
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<mdomsch> it should find an A04 package
<Fujitsu> So it does.
<imbrandon> heh dell should just send all MOTU new laptops and we can all test / patch / help  :) /joking
<Fujitsu> Hey, it works.
<mdomsch> imbrandon, you're welcome to beg them from rtg and BenC :-)
<Fujitsu> Hm, another storm. That's special, two in a day.
<imbrandon> ahh ben has some ? /me contemplates
<mdomsch> and whomever is in montreal
<imbrandon> the support guys
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that's what i was thinking.
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: neat.  oy, mneptok!
<imbrandon> yea mneptok
<Hobbsee> magicfab might do it too
<imbrandon> so kernel + support :)
<imbrandon> mmm speakin of, i need to finish the xvesa patch
<imbrandon> bbiab
<imbrandon> mdomsch: the .spec / srpms avail for those PERC rpm's ?
<imbrandon> if i could peek at those it would make convertign a ton easier
<imbrandon> converting*
<mdomsch> imbrandon, yes, in http://linux.dell.com/git/dell-repo-tools.git/
<imbrandon> killer /me looks
<imbrandon> err gets bzr-git ftw
<imbrandon> mdomsch: you know its really sweet how much time it seems dell is putting into this stuff
<imbrandon> :)
<mdomsch> imbrandon, we're trying...
<imbrandon> specialy when you stare at 2k+ dell servers in the DC daily at work
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know how often we are syncing NEW packages from Debian?
<persia> LaserJock: three or four times a week, but only for main: contrib & non-free need manual requests.
<LaserJock> hmm
<persia> LaserJock: Something is missing?  There was a mini-freeze of NEW for Alpha1, but I thought pitti tried to clear it all on Friday.
<LaserJock> well, goffice was split into versioned packages
<LaserJock> so there should be goffice and goffice0.4
 * persia doesn't have enough information to provide advice, and points at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue and http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/all.html
<LaserJock> I don't see goffice0.4 in Ubuntu yet
<gpocentek> LaserJock: goffice 0.4 ?
<gpocentek> we have 0.5.3
<persia> gpocentek: It's the old API, preserved in a separate package in sid.
<gpocentek> hum
 * persia wonders why we don't just port everything NBS-style
<LaserJock> gpocentek: yeah, 0.4 is the stable version of goffice needed by other apps
<gpocentek> yep, I see now
<LaserJock> I'm waiting for 0.4 so we can merge gchemutils/gchempaint
 * Fujitsu returns from some surprise family fun, going by the name of `shit, why is there water coming through that wall?'
<Fujitsu> (yay, thunderstorms)
<RAOF> Awesome.
<RAOF> I'm all for internal pools.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Followed by, "Damn, that isn't good." ?
 * persia advocates suspending dwellings from airborne frameworks
<Fujitsu> A number of drains outside were rather blocked, and the water was a good 20cm deep in parts. Hopefully it's resolved now...
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Yeah.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: wow, we don't get that much rain here in a year for that
<Fujitsu> This is the most rain we've had in a looong time.
<LaserJock> we get ~ 30cm/year
<Fujitsu> And these are particularly low-lying parts of the yard right against the house, so get a lot of drainage to them.
<Hobbsee> water through walls?  you need better walls!
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Well, through bottom of walls.
<Fujitsu> Said wall bottoms are well below ground, and sometimes the water level rises above the waterproofing, and leaks down.
 * persia encourages reviewers to comment or advocate the 10 open REVU candidates.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I heard about a part of South Australia (near the Northern Terriority border) that got 3 metres of rain. In 48 hours.
<LaserJock> persia:  there are only 10?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Blink.
<Fujitsu> That's impressive.
<Fujitsu> Rather impressive indeed.
<persia> LaserJock: Yep.  You can reduce that number.  If we can hit 0 today, we win :)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: After that downpour, there was a lake where one didn't used to exist.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<persia> StevenK: only one ?
<StevenK> A rather large one
<LaserJock> StevenK: yeah, that's like 3 years of precipitation for here all in one 48hrs
<StevenK> Neat. Seems this storm isn't done yet
<StevenK> We had a bolt so close it set of a car alarm earlier
<LaserJock> yikes
<Hobbsee> kaboom!
 * LucidFox advertises http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=inkblot
 * StevenK advertises the LACK of PONIES to LASERJOCK
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Do you use Evolution?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no.  it's imap support is known to suck.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: why?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Bah, its IMAP support works for me.
<StevenK> It's IMAP support sucked for me
<StevenK> It could never remember which folders I didn't want to see
<Fujitsu> The Evolution process trio is eating my CPU and RAM as of this morning's upgrades.
<Hobbsee> mmm...hail.  tasty.
<StevenK> HAIL!?
 * StevenK chekcs
<Fujitsu> We had a bit here before, but it's all bright and sunny now.
<Hobbsee> looks like bits of it, and very heavy rain
<LaserJock> I've just tried Evolution in the last couple days
<LaserJock> I set up an IMAP server at home
<StevenK> Not here yet
<StevenK> I might move my car under cover, though
<LaserJock> right now it works fine except for periodicly pegging the CPU for a while at a time
<Hobbsee> hrm.
 * Hobbsee ponders teh damage of getting her car undercover, vs leaving it out
 * RAOF ponders the advantages of having no car
<Hobbsee> city slicker.
<RAOF> Public transport FTW!
<Hobbsee> public transport?  what's that?
<RAOF> A form of hair lice.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> hum.  i wonder if 'im about to lose power
<Fujitsu> What email client does everybody use for IMAP? (other than Thunderbird)
<Hobbsee> tb
<Hobbsee> KABOOM!
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I use Thunderbird too
<StevenK> Right, back from car undercover and the fun of next doors dog getting into our backyard
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: this is one other than Thunderbird? ;-)
<LaserJock> *there
<persia> mutt is nice if you don't have an aversion to using the keyboard.
<LaserJock> I like it ok, but I've not figured out how to deal with attachments well with mutt
 * persia is currently in mailer-dissatisfaction-mode, but vaguely remembers a MIME-type hook to launch external viewers
<StevenK> I'm quite happy with Thunderbird
<StevenK> After using Emacs to read mail for years
<persia> StevenK: You went from rmail to Thunderbird?  Has rmail development slowed, or is Thunderbird really that good?
<StevenK> persia: I used Wanderlust, not rmail
 * persia looks up Wanderlust
<LaserJock> I looked at wanderlust when I was on my "OMG, emacs is a whole stinkin' OS"
<LaserJock> but well, I didn't want to spend the time to set it up
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% wc -l .xemacs/*.el | tail -n 1
<StevenK>   51 total
<Fujitsu> Nooo, a Mozilla app! My eyes are burning.
<LaserJock> StevenK: that's not much
<StevenK> LaserJock: Right, but's Elisp!
<StevenK> And:
<StevenK> 117 .wl
<RAOF> Is anyone else finding that trackerd is continually using 100% of a core?
 * Fujitsu finds that trackerd is quite comfortably not on his disk.
<RAOF> I can see why it's installed by default, then :P
<persia> RAOF: Supposedly if you let it do that for two or three days it calms down.
<persia> Alternately rm -rf /home/raof, and only add things you really want indexed.
<Hobbsee> hah
<RAOF> It's already indexed everything, or at least should have.  This only started relatively recently.
<Fujitsu> RAOF: tracker-status should tell you what it thinks it was doing.
<RAOF> Fujitsu: Now, that was what I was after ;)
<RAOF> Thanks, I was unaware of that utility.
<Fujitsu> I found it useful to work out that it had indexed over 10x the number of files in my ~, and so gave up.
<RAOF> ... right.
<Fujitsu> (*I* gave up, that is, and removed it)
 * persia thinks it updates the index for every update in +atime rather than every update in +mtime, and so reindexes repeatedly, but this is superstition
<RAOF> persia: atime would be rediculously stupid, surely it doesn't do that.
<RAOF> Eh, plus noatime :)
<persia> RAOF: I haven't checked: see the note above about superstition.  noatime might also be the culprit, as it can't see that it's been viewed since it was indexed :)
 * RAOF 's spelling hasn't returned with his improving health, I see.
<StevenK> RAOF: That comes later
<StevenK> RAOF: Mark a few first years exams as zero, that'll help
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<LaserJock> StevenK: that does perk one up after feeling unwell ;-)
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies! That does too.
<RAOF> StevenK: My supply of first year tests has run out, at least untill next yer.
<StevenK> RAOF: I'd suggest you set some more, but they've turned into second years!
<pwnguin> what's so great about tracker, besides how it digs through emails i dont have?
<RAOF> pwnguin: Apparently that it prevents one of your cores from sleeping, ever.
<LaserJock> hmm, if it could tell me where I put journal articles I could find it useful
<LaserJock> my pdfs tend to have somewhat random alphanumerical names
<pwnguin> thats what my desktop's for
 * persia thought there was a good app for tracking articles featured on DPOTD recently
<pwnguin> i havent seen a dpotd in a while
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, but think that implied you used it from the beginning. not sure though
<pwnguin> are they really low on articles?
<persia> pwnguin: Always.
<LaserJock> pwnguin: I think they pretty much put them up as they get them
<pwnguin> i see
<pwnguin> i thought i saw a queue or something like that
<persia> pwnguin: There's a review queue, but it's never very long.
<persia> (usually 0 or 1 items )
<TheMuso> Hrm. Fresh alpha 1 instal of hardy, and pulseaudio doesn't seem to be runnin.
<TheMuso> running
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Is it meant to be?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I thought it was.
<mok0> Good morning
<persia> mok0: Just for fun: have you considered using the smaller default mawk, rather than gawk for theseus
<mok0> persia: mawk gives a syntax error
<mok0> persia: I don't think mawk has the match function
<persia> mok0: Right.  If it mattered, I'd suggest fixing the syntax.  On the other hand, we don't feel the same way about mawk/gawk as we do about dash/bash, so it's not important :)
<mok0> persia: I could use perl ;-)
<persia> mok0: That would be moving the size of the build-depends in the other direction :)
<mok0> persia: I could use sed, but then I'd have to invoke a pipe -> several processes
<mok0> persia: ... and I love awk
<persia> mok0: isn't it just something like sed /^theseus\s\([\d\.]*\)-.*/\1/p | head -1 ?
 * mok0 tests
<persia> Err.  sed -n ...
<persia> Err... sed -n /^theseus\s(\([\d\.]*\)-.*/\1/p | head -1
<mok0> ... like I said, I love awk :-)
<persia> I like awk too, but not generally for one-line scripts: I just don't remember syntax well off the top of my head.
<mok0> persia: can you do it with mawk
<mok0> ?
<mok0> persia: I couldn't figure out how to print out the matched group space without using that function
<mok0> persia: I seem to remember it can be done, but perhaps it's another language
<persia> Grr.  Lost log.  Likely, but not off the top of my head (I don't have mawk locally right now).  Something involving /theseus.../ { split $2, arr, [(-)]; print arr[1]; exit} no?
<persia> Umm.  the split() arguments should probably be in parentheses :)
<mok0> This is my regexp: \((.*)-
<mok0> which should find the lparen, then the version and finally a minus
<mok0> .* is grouped inside a pair of (), and you should be able to get at the match for that
<persia> Also catches "tweak the settings (fixes missing-parameter errors)"
<persia> You really want to wrap it with /^theseus/
<mok0> persia: ??
<mok0> persia: I want it to be general
<persia>  \((.*)- matches "tweak the settings (fixes missing-parameter errors)"
<mok0> Ah
<mok0> Of course, but awk only reads the first line if you call exit after the match
<persia> \(([\d\.]*)- is likely closer to what you want.
<mok0> yeah, ok, but that still leaves the problem of getting at the grouping
<persia> mok0: True, and it works: I'm just poking for the sake of poking :)  I'll test it later, if you can't find two advocates in the next 3 hours.
<mok0> :-)
<dholbach> good morning
<gpocentek> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey gpocentek
<mok0> persia: can do it with mawk :-)
<persia> mok0: Hurrah!  Now, can you do it with sed?
<persia> (or dpkg-parsechangelogs, if you like)
<mok0> persia: you said perl was off-limits
<persia> mok0: perl scripts existing only for packaging are sufficiently different as to be not recommended.  Using the supplied utilities (which may be in perl) for which there are no additional build-depends is encouraged.
<mok0> persia: I thought this was about efficiency :-)
<mok0>  94616 Oct  4  2006 /usr/bin/mawk
<persia> mok0: It's about package management efficiency: reduction of build-depends is good.  CPU time on the buildds is nice to save, but not as important.  mawk, sed, and dpkg-parsechangelogs are all installed by default.  gawk isn't.
<mok0> persia: so you'll accept mawk?
<persia> mok0: I'll accept gawk, but couldn't resist your last comment :)
<mok0> persia: I'll accept your challenge to do it in sed. I started out with that, but quickly turned to awk (I always do that if sed doesn't budge in a few tries)
<persia> mok0: OK.  sed -n /slkfhjalkfa/\1/p | head -1 is something I've seen a lot before, but it's finding the right slkfhjalkfa that can be tricky :)
<mok0> Hehe, yeah
<mok0> persia:  sed -e 's/.*(//; s/-.*//; 1q' < changelog
<persia> mok0: That's extra clean, but don't forget to use $(CURDIR)/debian/changelog :)
<mok0> :)
<mok0> But I don't need $(CURDIR), dh_test makes sure I am in topdir
<persia> mok0: OK.  I usually add things to be safe anyway.
<mok0> persia: so which do you prefer??
<mok0> mawk or sed?
<persia> Also, s/.*(\([\d\.]*\)-.*/\1/ only does one pass :)
<mok0> I can not get the final \1 to parse
<persia> mok0: I like sed better, but that's a personal preference.  From what I see, there's nothing actually wrong with the package on REVU.
<persia> mok0: Are you quoting the string?
 * mok0 tries again
<persia> (if not, you need \\1)
<mok0> persia: it doesn't work
<mok0> persia: it just cats out the whole file
<persia> mok0: Are you using sed -n ?
<persia> mok0: You'll need /1pq at the end to generate the output though.
<mok0> persia: then it gives nothing
<persia> mok0: Even with /p ?
<mok0> nope
<persia> Very odd.  I can't test well from here.  Sorry.
<mok0> persia: I'll mutate it
<\sh> moins
<Fujitsu> 'lo, \sh.
<\sh> ScottK, that's a shame with openssl097
<Fujitsu> Yes, /me sighs.
<\sh> this shouldn't happen at all...:(
 * persia thinks it is short term, and given that the same binary blob is available from lots of sources, an acceptable short-term workaround until the blob is fixed (which ought happen this week, or it's no longer short-term)
<\sh> persia, tbh, the bug was known...we released sec-updates already for 0.9.8 and then this...sad
<persia> \sh: Yes, but nobody poked the ISV team to coordinate an update with the blob vendors.
<persia> \sh: if it's not gone in a week, it's worth making a stink, but considering that the problem exists with the blob, it is required in order to support the blob, despite the issues.  None of the software we support is built against it, so I don't really care.
<imbrandon> no one should have to imho, if they want to proviced blobs that one of the risks, stay ontop of it
<\sh> persia, regarding the fact, that we are distributing this, we should have done something
<persia> imbrandon: Well, it's nice to tell other members of ~ubuntu-dev when things are happening.
<imbrandon> yea
<persia> \sh: We aren't distributing it.  Canonical is distributing it.
<\sh> persia, under the ubuntu flag, yes...so it's more a "we" in the public view
<persia> \sh: No, it's in partner.canonical.com.  That's the reason I don't care.  It's the ISV team's problem, and it only affects one piece of ISV software.
<imbrandon> yes, i would too say it wasent "we" if we dident have the commented out partnet deb lines in sources.list
 * Fujitsu notes that partner packages appear very much as a part of Ubuntu, particularly on LP where one would file security bugs.
<persia> Further, the software in question is open to the same exploits downloaded directly, or for any other distribution.  If the user wants to install it, that's their hazard: there are alternatives available.
<imbrandon> yea, and it lookes like version2 is even more evil, i was a big vmware fan untill this
<imbrandon> and the bad part is we use vmware extrnsively at work
<imbrandon> extensively*
<\sh> persia, well, regarding the last bad publicity about the fragged community servers, the common news were "ubuntu is not secure" not "the admins were not doing their work"...the latter is correct, the former is the public view, which gives more problems of explanation
<persia> Fujitsu: True.  I'll stop saying others shouldn't care, but it's the vendors' issue, and while it's annoying that partner doesn't look like a 3rd party repo, it is, and so I'd rather look at the problems we can solve.
<persia> \sh: True.  Complain to Canonical PR.
<coNP[uni]> Good morning MOTUs!
<Fujitsu> Hi coNP[uni].
<imbrandon> persia: if it were truely 3rd party it wouldent be in the default sources.list either, imho thats a bug OR we should include medibuntu and seveas etc
<imbrandon> ( even commented out )
<persia> imbrandon: That's a bug.  Please fix it.
<imbrandon> that will cause flack, i'm 100% sure, think aobut it, thats one of the seeling points to ISV's ( "hey look its in the default sources.list, easy to turn on" )
<imbrandon> but i'm all for trying
<imbrandon> selling*
<persia> imbrandon: Sure, but it doesn't go both ways.  If partner is not community supported, the community shouldn't support it.
<imbrandon> oh i 100% agree with you, i'm just playing devils advocate kinda to my self
<StevenK> I didn't think the community was expected to support it?
<persia> StevenK: They aren't.  It's not a community issue.  The complaint is that it looks like a community issue because it's in the default sources.list.
<StevenK> Ah, that lovely P word. (Perception)
<\sh> persia, honestly, it's not my job...I wrote something about this on my blog, especially for my fellow readers and colleagues....if it would be my job to complain or to do something on canonicals side, I would search a new Marketing and PR manager for the department...we can only complain about technical issues, what happened now is a technical issue.
<persia> Precisely :)
<Fujitsu> And anybody who goes to LP to file a bug about it will find it being `openssl097 in Ubuntu'
<Fujitsu> In the release pocket, looking like a perfectly normal package.
<StevenK> Isn't there a bug saying that partner != Ubuntu ?
<persia> \sh: No.  The only application affected by possible security issues is affected by the same issues for every distribution.  We can not permit install, or we can permit install.  With a binary blob, there are no other choices.
<Fujitsu> Yes, lemme find it..
<Fujitsu> Bug #153178
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153178 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Don't recognise USB Pendrive -> sr0: disc change detected. (dup-of: 125250)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153178
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125250 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Don't recognise USB Pendrive -> sr0: disc change detected." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/125250
<Fujitsu> Ergh, no.
<\sh> persia, of course there are...not publishing it, not following the mainstream..
<proppy> oy
<Fujitsu> Bug #153798
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153798 in soyuz "canonical partner repo packages showing as "in ubuntu"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153798
<persia> \sh: That's the "not permit install" option.
<imbrandon> err it dosent look truely "3rd party"
<\sh> persia, I call it "safe the users from doing something nasty to their systems" (more known examples: automatix, the old thirdparty package repos, etc.)
<mok0> persia:  sed 's/.*(\(.*\)-.*).*/\1/;q' < changelog
<slicer> Hi. I have a licensing question. Mumble's sourcecode is BSD, as it's intended to be freely used by any other project. However, it does use Qt, so until now all binaries have been released under the GPL (as the binary becomes GPL the second it includes a Qt header). Recently, Trolltech made a long list of "addional acceptable licenses", and BSD is one of them. So, technically speaking, it should be possible to BSD license the binaries as well.
<persia> mok0: Excellent !
<StevenK> dpkg-parsechangelog | grep Version | cut -d\  -f2
<mok0> StevenK: Trying to do it without perl and pipes
<slicer> However, the source also includes a few third-party things, and one of these have a few GPL-licensed files. These files are not used in compilation, but they're still in the tarball. .. Is the sane thing to do to just keep the whole thing GPL'd?
<persia> \sh: Sure.  It'd be nice.  But 153798 aside, I'd rather fix our stuff than worry about other stuff.
<persia> slicer: I'd keep the collection GPL, as it'd be easier for end-users.  As long as all the BSD stuff is mentioned in debian/copyright and file headers, those seeking to reuse the code will be aware of their options.
<imbrandon> sad thing is 153798 hasent even been triaged, i filed that quite a while back
<\sh> well, I'll deal with wireshark now...
<\sh> looks like that i'm going to have a bore-out syndrome during the last days in office ;)
<slicer> persia: It is. In that case my copyright file actually only needs the two lines of saying that the packaging itself is GPL.
 * slicer heads to do a revu upload again.
<slicer> BTW. #ubuntu-desktop and the wiki and whatnot have been unable to say if hardy ships with PulseAudio by default. As you can't use both ALSA and PulseAudio at the same time, I'll have to choose one as the default audio backend. Any suggestions?
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/CleanupAudioJumble
<persia> slicer: target ALSA for now, but be prepared to patch later.
<Amaranth> Why? ALSA is fine
<slicer> Amaranth: No, it's not.
<persia> Amaranth: Depends on what you do.  In many cases, yes.
<Amaranth> Err
<Amaranth> You said patch later
<imbrandon> alsa is good for users, hell for programers from what ive been told by the gstreamer team
<slicer> imbrandon: I fully agree.
<persia> imbrandon: Well, again it depends on what you do.
<Amaranth> Pulseaudio plugs into alsalib
<Amaranth> So if you're using alsa you'll be using pulseaudio and probably not even notice
<persia> Amaranth: If hardy does PA by default, and the app can connect directly to PA rather than through the PA ALSA plug, it will be a better user experience.
<huats> morning dear MOTU
<huats> :)
<slicer> No. Mumble strives towards low latency, meaning it uses ALSA features that are "not common" and as such fails completely with the wrapper.
<awalton__> but does pulse-audio do alsa emulation (so current applications written to write to alsa can instead write through pulse audio?)
<mok0> persia: Using your sed expression. I got rid of the awk scripts. Re-uploaded to REVU, it should be visible shortly. Will you sponsor it?
<persia> mok0: Not without testing (which I can't do here).
<slicer> Yes, it does ALSA emulation, but only if your application is "normal".
<Amaranth> I've never had an app break on it
<persia> awalton__: For simple cases, yes.
<mok0> persia: Ah, ok
<persia> Amaranth: try JACK :)
<Amaranth> People use that crap?
<persia> I think it breaks on the ALSA entropy plugin as well.
<proppy> hi huats
<slicer> For me, it breaks when I ask for a socket descriptor to do select() on, and it breaks when I iterate the sound devices to let the user choose a specific one.
<coNP[uni]> Wow, PhD Comics is aware of us: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=946 :)
<slicer> Anyway, I have a native PulseAudio backend now, so no worries :)
<huats> proppy: hey
<persia> slicer: Sounds like you really want PA if you can get it.  Can you set a config that tries PA and falls back to ALSA?
<imbrandon> debian policy 3.7.3.0 uploaded ( debian ) time for a lintian/linda patch and some REVU backports
<imbrandon> looks like
<Fujitsu> It has been a while]
 * persia doesn't like hearing that on Monday :(
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: where a while == 2 hours ?
<slicer> persia: Not really. PA is asynchronous, so you don't know if you have PA until you're program has been running for a short while.
<slicer> s/you're/your/
<persia> slicer: Right.  Alas.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I meant since 3.7.2 was released.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: ahh yea, and the release email says 3.7.4 isnt far behind, but that could still be months in debian time
<imbrandon> hrm ok, i got a bit of support question ( but to keep it on-topic, i promis to fix if yall help me find why the "why" ) anyhow ... you all know i got hardy to install on that ppc, well after install after reboot it drops to a initramfs busybox shell, i have to "modprobe ide-disk; ^C-d" to get it to finish successfully booting, i thought that just dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r` would work to fix this, but it dosent
<imbrandon> ideas ?
<imbrandon> ( and did that get cut-off )
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Try running `update-initramfs -u', and if that doesn't work add the module to /etc/modules and run the command again.
<imbrandon> k, what what would cause this, or would i be better just filing a bug and lettign the kernel team fixing it , i hate to do that as the ppc team is thin as it is
<Fujitsu> It seems odd that it wouldn't be there.
<imbrandon> i also saved the initrd.img on another disk as sugested in some bugs when this happened massivly in dapper
<imbrandon> just incase later it helps to debug
<imbrandon> ( the broken initrd.img that is )
<imbrandon> moins jono
<\sh> moins jono
<jono> hey all
<Fujitsu> Hi jono.
<Hobbsee> hi jono
<persia> hi jono
<imbrandon> hrm well without adding it to /etc/modules dident work, trying with it now ...
<imbrandon> btw anyone know how the sources.list is generated durring install ? since the ppc moved to "ports" its adding deblines for http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/ hardy .... which is correct, but the deb-src lines it adds are also the same, when ports.u.c domain dosent house sources, the normal http://archive.u.c/ubuntu hardy ... is required for sources
<imbrandon> man i really need to auto-break my lines somehow
<imbrandon> on irc
<imbrandon> ( plus i can poke about the partner commented out repo in the same package hehe )
<\sh> imbrandon, write a patch for xchat, irssi, konversation ,-)
<imbrandon> \sh: heh konversation alrady does it, but i've been using irssi a few months now
<imbrandon> err probably more like a year, but still
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: thanks , hat seemed to fixer up, now to figure out why :)
<imbrandon> that*
 * persia laments the apparent lack of reviewing during REVU day, and encourages reviewers to just pick one app to hit (there's only 10)
 * Hobbsee lends persia the whip
<LucidFox> well, if it comes to picking one app, may I recommend http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=inkblot ?
 * persia walks quietly off with the whip, noting that activity will be checked upon return...
<slicer> What's the minimum feature set we support on x86 platforms?
<slicer> .. and is there a way to mark a package as "only suitable for >= Pentium3"?
<imbrandon> slicer: not really, you can make it build for amd64 only, but imho thats silly
<Amaranth> slicer: No, it should be generic or switch to alternatives like SSE at runtime
<imbrandon> slicer: yes the minimum featureset is 486
<Amaranth> It'd be 586 if not for Via, right?
<imbrandon> DX
<slicer> Even though no 486 will ever have enough power to pull it around?
<slicer> Ah well. I'll adapt.
<Amaranth> slicer: iirc it's 486 because the chips via puts out don't support the full 586 set of instructions
<imbrandon> Amaranth: no because that the lowest denom :) we dont only support "new" hardware
<imbrandon> other x86's dont support more than 486 opcodes too
<Amaranth> imbrandon: Sure but I can't see any version of Ubuntu working on a 486
<imbrandon> besides via
<Amaranth> Like what?
<imbrandon> Amaranth: -server
<imbrandon> VenomSX comes to mind as one, i know there are a few
<Amaranth> The kernel takes up more memory than the 486 I owned had
<imbrandon> via probably is the bigest but not the only
<imbrandon> btw if yall have digg accounts, help a brother out and digg me, http://digg.com/linux_unix/Help_an_OpenSource_Developer_Get_a_New_Computer
<imbrandon> :)
 * imbrandon goes back to the initrd thing
<aplg|mobile> imbrandon: do I need a revu for a fixed watch file?
<imbrandon> aplg|mobile: nah, i would attach a debdiff to a bug
<imbrandon> for that
<aplg|mobile> there is no bug yet
<imbrandon> and subscribe u-u-s
<imbrandon> aplg|mobile: make one :)
<aplg|mobile> well
<aplg|mobile> <-- apachelogger :P
<aplg|mobile> imbrandon: can sponsor myself ;-)
<imbrandon> ahh ok, well then just upload :)
<aplg|mobile> k, thanks
<imbrandon> i dident know whom you were :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<aplg|mobile> yeah, that nick is kinda confusing
 * aplg|mobile needs to think about something more meaningful
<imbrandon> i would attach it to a debian bts bug also ( the debdiff ) if the package is in debian
<imbrandon> mobileapache :)
<imbrandon> or ... wap.apachelogger :)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> aplg|mobile: what pacakage, just curious ? ( makin sure its not something i look after hehe )
<aplg|mobile> qtpfsgui
<aplg|mobile> strange thing is
<aplg|mobile> that has no watch file at all
 * aplg|mobile kicks ubuntuwire :P
<Fujitsu> aplg|mobile: What is the issue?
<imbrandon> ahh nope
<aplg|mobile> Fujitsu: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/wwiz_detail.php?id=8529&type=watch
<imbrandon> thats watch wiz, those are autogenerated
<Fujitsu> What imbrandon said.
<aplg|mobile> oha
 * aplg|mobile includes a watch file
<imbrandon> watch != wwiz
<imbrandon> :)
<aplg|mobile> makes sense :)
<imbrandon> hrm actualy Fujitsu that dident work, i thought it would ( even adding to /etc/modules )
<imbrandon> i'll poke the kernel guys later for more hints , atleaste enough to file a memeaningfull bug
<imbrandon> i'll just deal wih having to mod-probe that on boot for the moment
<\sh> can someone rebuild mplayer to catch up with libx265-56? :) (bug #173624) thx
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173624 in mplayer "mplayer : dependency is not satisfiable in Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173624
<\sh> libx264-56 ,-)
<imbrandon> \sh: i think Hobbsee can do give-backs
<\sh> Hobbsee, ? :) can you ? :)
<geser> imbrandon: without checking this sounds like a new upload (library transition)
<imbrandon> geser: err yea true, build1 would probably need appened, \sh want me to do that ?
<\sh> imbrandon, if it builds properly (didn't check it) sure, would be cool one bug less ,)
<imbrandon> ok, i'll do a fast buld check and then if successfull do that
<imbrandon> build*
<\sh> imbrandon, cool thx :)
<\sh> I'm fighting with CVE-2007-6113 :( wireshark is a bitch...the changes are coming to fast to the source
<ubotu> Wireshark (formerly Ethereal) 0.10.12 to 0.99.6 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (long loop) via a malformed DNP packet. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-6113)
<Hobbsee> \sh: given back, but it appears to be in depwait anyway, so would have been retried
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: eer ok so i shouldent upload ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: shouldn't need to
<Hobbsee> oh, hang on
<imbrandon> k, poke me if that changes
<Hobbsee> right, now it's working
<imbrandon> koies
<geser> imbrandon: it needs an upload as it build successfully on i386 and amd64
<geser> Hobbsee: it was in depwait for !(i386, amd64)
<imbrandon> geser: ok, i'll just upload, it cant make it worse
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: ^^
<\sh> thx imbrandon
<\sh> thx Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: oh, yeah, point
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am seeing that vm-server is stuck on 1.0.4-1gutsy1 in apt, even post install it seems to think  that it need to be installed - synaptic says  .0.4-1gutsy1 (gutsy) is replacing .0.4-1gutsy1(now) : do I need to raise a bug?
<imbrandon> StevenHarperUK: probably but you need to file it against Canonical Partner not Ubunut
<imbrandon> ubuntu*
<Hobbsee> there's a bug filed.
<Hobbsee> on soyuz
<Hobbsee> it's mangling spaces, so it thinks it's different, and tries to install it again
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: can you post me a link pls
<Hobbsee> that woudl require looking it up...
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: I thought it looked like a name problem, but great to see your onto it
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: Ill try to find it
<Fujitsu> It's a problem with Soyuz leaving out fields in Packages files.
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/172275
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172275 in soyuz "vmware-server in feisty-commercial keeps getting reinstalled" [High,In progress]
<Fujitsu> Pre-Depends and Recommends, among others.
<Fujitsu> That one.
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/165230 appears to be a dupe
<persia> Hi proppy
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: But mortals don't have access to the original so I can't blame them for duping it
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: everyone should be able to view those bugs.
 * Hobbsee cannot view soyuz private bugs
<proppy> hi persia
<proppy> :)
 * Hobbsee does not work for canonical
<Amaranth> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/172308 tells me "Not allowed here"
<Amaranth> dang
 * persia dislikes the message, and wishes for something nicer
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/172308 tells me "Not allowed here"
<proppy> Amaranth: same for me
<Amaranth> and ubotu says it's private
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: I see that too
<Hobbsee> O.O
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: erm, where did you get that link from?
<Amaranth> oh, that's the one above yours
<Amaranth> cprov linked to it
<Amaranth> I just opened every link in the bug report :P
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Amaranth> cprov refers to that bug in the one you linked to as well
<Hobbsee> well, he can read the private bugs, obviously
 * Hobbsee cannot.
<Amaranth> odd that it'd be private
<Amaranth> They must have discovered the bug while doing something with the partner repo
 * persia hints that reviewers should try to review at least one REVU package during REVU day.
<Amaranth> heh, the next hug day is my birthday
<Amaranth> and since it's my 21st i suspect i'll be too drunk to help with bugs :P
<Hobbsee> bad Amaranth.
 * imbrandon notes his birthday is a few days away ( 19 dec ) he'll be 29, ugh
 * Hobbsee makes comments about people being old and decrepit, and needing walking sticks.
 * Fujitsu will be 17 in 4.5 months, so hah.
 * Hobbsee runs
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You're ol.
<Fujitsu> *old.
 * persia hands Hobbsee a walker
<Hobbsee> not that old
 * Hobbsee watches persia fall over, as he's now without his walker
 * persia doesn't need to walk :)
 * Fujitsu isn't sure how old Hobbsee is.
<persia> Fujitsu: Somewhere between you and I.
<Hobbsee> 93
 * Fujitsu isn't sure how old persia is either :P
 * StevenK is sure how old Hobbsee is, but isn't saying
 * Hobbsee is 93 in alien years.
<geser> Hobbsee: which number base?
 * txwikinger2 is an alien too
 * imbrandon knows Hobbsee's age too , but not sure why its secrative now, wasent before heheh
 * persia encourages Fujitsu and StevenK to do a REVU
 * txwikinger2 wonders what alien years are
<Hobbsee> geser: aliens don't use archaec things such as number bases to calculate ages.
 * StevenK shrugs off persia's encouragement
 * persia encourages geser to do a review in lieu of StevenK
 * Hobbsee encourages imbrandon to do a REVU too
<persia> Yeah!
 * Hobbsee cracks the whip
<StevenK> Ouch!
 * persia has previously returned it
<Hobbsee> persia: i have multiple whips.
<StevenK> Watch where you aim that thing
<txwikinger2> who said anything about aiming?
<StevenK> Like you can aim a whip anyway
<imbrandon> ok mplayer seems to build fine, uploading now-ish
 * geser is lucky to be far away from Hobbsee
 * Hobbsee has a very long whip
 * txwikinger2 doesn't like miracle whip
 * persia grumbles at changelogs that read "New Upstream Release" for every upload, with serveral bugs marked closed, and no explanation.
 * Hobbsee also has a VERY long Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! â¢
<Hobbsee> i'ts also HIGHLY ACCURATE!
<imbrandon> persia: btw after i make this upload i'd like to discuss a few of the comments on xbiso package ( revu ) some dont apply, and some i dont think should .... give me a sec ( just preping you )
<Hobbsee> so, get reviewing!
<persia> imbrandon: Sure.
 * txwikinger2 thinks Hobbsee must be very old to have been involved in the DOOMSDAY books
 * Hobbsee is 93, as said earlier.
<txwikinger2> not old enough
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: 93 non-linear alien years?
<Hobbsee> *now* you're getting the idea....
 * txwikinger2 thinks about disappearing into the sixth dimension
 * persia smiles at cprov
<Fujitsu> Evening, cprov.
<Hobbsee> persia: giong to make him review too?
<Hobbsee> sounds sinister.
<persia> Hobbsee: I don't think the keyring matches.
<cprov> morning, dudes
<txwikinger2> Is persia now jumping at any new arrival?
<persia> txwikinger2: No.
 * txwikinger2 supports persia's encouragements anyway
<imbrandon> cprov: gonna be arround for a minute? i wanna poke you about a potential PPA bug but i'm busy the next ~15 minnutes
 * Hobbsee encourages persia to review
<persia> norsetto: Good news.  I finally got my audio toolchain working again: I should be able to get lash up tonight.
<persia> Hobbsee: I've reviewed every package awaiting review at least once :P
<Hobbsee> persia: and the sponsorship queue is empty too?
<cprov> imbrandon: k
<norsetto> persia: hey, good to know, lemme know if there is any probs with the package
<persia> Hobbsee: No, but that's on the TODO list (see previous note)
 * txwikinger2 just found another gutsy bug
<txwikinger2> is even a packaging bug
 * persia waits for the patch
<txwikinger2> hehe :D
<txwikinger2> k.. I report the bug with the patch
<txwikinger2> well.. how about a package sync
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: fyi , cprov just informed me that the system requires a new upload to the PPA to trigger the archive-cleanup system :)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Ah, I guess it needs to trigger a publisher run, right.
<imbrandon> yea, makes sense now that he said it, but ... yea
<imbrandon> \sh / Hobbsee : mplayer uploaded, i used a ubuntu3 version instead of build1 since there was already a ubuntu delta
<imbrandon> but its clearly stated in the changelog thats its a rebuild only
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Did you push it to bzr?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: doing it now
<imbrandon> puter slow :)
<Fujitsu> Danke.
<Fujitsu> It should only take a couple of hours to checkout.
<imbrandon> yea i noticed it was bzr hosted
<imbrandon> dude since i got bzr-svn working i'm in love
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: all imported and commited with bzr-svn :) http://apt-mirror.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/apt-mirror/trunk/
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Aha, nice.
<imbrandon> once the initial bzr co svn://... is done everything else is just as you would use bzr normaly
<imbrandon> makes it seemless
<imbrandon> i had to use bzr 0.92 from the website and rebuild bzr-svn against it , but its great
<imbrandon> should be transparent fr everyone come hardy
<imbrandon> man are you serouis this co is gonna take hours?
<imbrandon> kinda nice that bzr has plugins like svn and git etc, makes devs able to use one tool ( if they use bzr )
<\sh> imbrandon, did you mention bug #173624 in the changelog?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173624 in mplayer "mplayer : dependency is not satisfiable in Hardy" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173624
<imbrandon> \sh: yes i closed it via the changelog
<\sh> imbrandon, rock :)
<imbrandon> infact looking at the bot it seems it already closed it :)
<imbrandon> hrm persia / Fujitsu : i just had an evil thought
<imbrandon> you know the PPA changes thing?
<Hobbsee> mmm?
<imbrandon> s/changes/.changes/
 * persia wonders about xbiso
<imbrandon> what stops someone from getting a signed .changes of a normal package from LP ( say xorg or similar ) where the person is also a DD , and uplaoding to ftp-master ?
<imbrandon> not just the PPA's
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: wrong target.
<persia> imbrandon: The distribution targets are different.
<imbrandon> ahhh rockin, ok
<imbrandon> i just had one of those WTF moments heh
<\sh> can't we build as well debian distros with PPA?
<imbrandon> \sh: if you force it via uploading to ~ubuntu/gutsy or similar
<imbrandon> yes
 * Hobbsee didn't think it did debian stuff
<persia> Well, we can build debian packages, but not debian distros.  Needs to follow an Ubuntu base distro.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: it will build for anything if you overide it via uploading to the correct target
<imbrandon> persia: right
<persia> imbrandon: anything (as long as it's brown)
<imbrandon> if you upload it to ~ubuntu/dapper it will still build agaist dapper no matter what the changelog says
<imbrandon> in short
<soren> The changelog doesn't matter anyway.
<soren> It's what's in the .changes file that matters.
<persia> soren: Except insofar as it is used to geneate .changes
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: sure, i just didn't raelise that they even did debian builders
<soren> (or where you upload to, apparantly. I didn't know)
<Hobbsee> would have thought it'd reject going to unstable.
<persia> Hobbsee: It doesn't.
<soren> persia: But it's perfectly overridable with dpkg-genchanges or manually afterwards.
<persia> soren: Sure.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: it dosent but it will not reject it if it is specificly uplaoded to a target
<imbrandon> soren: yea but %99.9 percent of people just use whats generated :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yet the unstable target in ppa doesn't seem to exist?
<soren> imbrandon: I'd add significantly more 9's at the end of that :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  You can't upload to build against sid.  You can upload to build an unmodified sid package against feisty.
<soren> imbrandon: It's a relevant detail, though.
<Hobbsee> well, of course
<Hobbsee> that's different
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: ugh, your not getting what i said, if you have an package that says unstable in the changelog/changes you can uplaod it to ~ubuntu/$dist and it will not reject it, rather build it for said $dist
<imbrandon> whereas if you have an unstable package and just uplaod it to ~/ubuntu it WILL reject it
<Hobbsee> right
<Hobbsee> i got all but the last part then :)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i probably wasent very clear, i hate irc at times
<Hobbsee> i thought if you uploaded it to ~ubuntu/unstable it would surely also fail, too.  that was my point
<imbrandon> heh
<persia> Hobbsee: It does :)
<Hobbsee> good!  :)
<imbrandon> persia: ahh yea xbiso , lemme bring up the pacakge, one sec
 * persia cheers everyone being right, and encourages soren & imbrandon to do REVU reviews (it being REVU day)
<imbrandon> although that would be a nice feature for those that wish to give back to debian ( unstable PPA also )
<txwikinger2> well lets hug debian :)
 * persia prefers "also work on" to "give back to"
<imbrandon> persia: re: xbiso , 2) why? 4) yes its required for this upstreams build system 5) huh? 6) huh? , everything else is "will-do"
<imbrandon> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=xbiso
<\sh> hmmmm? njam 1.25-5ubuntu1 ?
<\sh>  Merge from Debian unstable (LP: #159318) remaining changes:
<\sh>      - updated .desktop file to be freedesktop and HIG compliant
<\sh> and the debian changelog mentions:
<\sh> * Make .desktop file freedesktop-compliant
<\sh> ?
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> imbrandon: 2) I didn't check, but it's often handy, 4) that sucks, 5) \- vs. \(hy, 6) man lexgrog
<\sh> !ircnick Mario Bonino
<imbrandon> k
<DktrKranz> persia, I improved http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~dktrkranz/NBS/, it's not perfect, but can be of help
 * imbrandon wishes there was a "very simplest form" howto on man pages, everything i found on google is way way way complicated
<DktrKranz> \sh, any troubles with njam? I can contact Mario, if you want
<\sh> DktrKranz, I wonder what was the difference between freedesktop compatible from debian and our freedesktop compatible ,-)
<persia> DktrKranz: Looks great, but: 1) Difficult to navigate: perhaps anchor the sections, 2) Be nice to separate main from universe to aid efforts, 3) Be nice to have text indicating that the first chunk likely need porting, and the second chunk likely need a recompile, 4) Be nice to have a link to a wiki page explaining about -XbuildY (but I can't find the page, so I don't expect this one to get done :) )
<DktrKranz> \sh, I'll ask him when he well login. His IRCname is Rospo_Zoppo, FYI
<DktrKranz> *will
 * persia wonders if we can just drop all the xmms modules rather than recompiling them
<imbrandon> heh
<DktrKranz> persia, it should quite easy to do, I'll try to adjust, but I will need a hand for 1), I'm a disaster in these issues :)
 * persia seeks a UI person to help put a front end on http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~dktrkranz/NBS/
<persia> DktrKranz: Can you stick a link to the code somewhere on that page?
<imbrandon> if no one gets to it before i do i'll poke at it ~1 hour
<DktrKranz> Sure
<imbrandon> well ~1.5 i have to get the kids ready for school soon'
<persia> DktrKranz: OK.  Since all my wishlists were UI issues: any chance you could look at building a list of packages not yet compiled for hardy?
<DktrKranz> persia, it will be harder since we haven't no autosync logs, but perhaps we can solve by running multidistrotools
<persia> DktrKranz: You mean comparing gutsy to hardy, and looking for packages with the same version?
<DktrKranz> I fear it is not complete
<imbrandon> hrm that sounds like it will generate los of false positives
<Fujitsu> It should be very easy to do that, actually.
<persia> imbrandon: Why?
<persia> DktrKranz: How?
<imbrandon> not all versions will bump
<imbrandon> between releases
<Fujitsu> I can probably generate that list in a few seconds.
<persia> imbrandon: It needs a bump to get compiled against the new toolchain, no?
<imbrandon> no
<DktrKranz> Fujitsu, great. Maybe we can compare your output with that taken from hardy build logs to see if there are differences
<imbrandon> some things stay at the same version from warty to hardy :)
<persia> Fujitsu: I don't really consider it a target until we near UVF, but it'd be nice.
<imbrandon> persia: ^
<Fujitsu> persia: I'll try it now.
<\sh> DktrKranz, cool thx
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  Those didn't get rebuilt.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Right, which is a problem.
<persia> imbrandon: Further, many of them would FTBFS if retried today.
<DktrKranz> Yes, especially some with bashisms
<imbrandon> hum okies
<imbrandon> i guess i was off then
<persia> imbrandon: You were correct, it's just that we consider that to be less than ideal.
<imbrandon> :)
<DktrKranz> Another false positive could be when a package FTBFS on Gutsy and compiled successfully on Hardy
<persia> Further, we may miss things given-back: it might be worth doing a changelog analysis from the resulting list before pushing (but I don't advocate pushing until near UVF anyway)
<Fujitsu> Only 8957 sources unchanged since Gutsy. yay.
<DktrKranz> \o/
<persia> That's actually a nice low number.  Let's see if it gets better in the next couple months, and start pushing recompiles in January.
<DktrKranz> Mass-rebuilds?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: just to give some context how long woudl it take to get the number from feisty to gusty ?
<imbrandon> would*
<imbrandon> to see "where we're at"
<persia> DktrKranz: Basically.  I read that as the buildds having a capacity of slightly over 1000 packages a week, so we should be in decent shape.
<persia> (and I suspect the buildd queues zeroed out a couple times as well, so the capacity is likely higher)
<DktrKranz> so, it will take about two months
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I'm doing it for all releases now.
<imbrandon> cool
<persia> Right.  So if we start at the beginning of January, we should finish in plenty of time for the release.
<imbrandon> if there are no problems or oter builds going :)
<DktrKranz> We need to coordinate to avoid dobule uploads
<persia> Although actually, that's a lot of uploads.  Maybe we need to start earlier to have enough time.
<persia> DktrKranz: Yes.  maybe a simple comment / assignment on some coordination page?  Maybe bugs?
<imbrandon> bugs would take too long, you would / should be able to take a hunk of 10 or so, just for rebuilds
 * Fujitsu pokes orko.
<DktrKranz> File ~ 8000 new bugs? Someone will be *very* upset
<persia> DktrKranz: No you're right.  Maybe we can arrange a scripted rebuild for them once DIF hits, and chase the FTBFS list?
<imbrandon> persia: that sounds mildy sane
<DktrKranz> persia, if everybody take responsibility for 100 rebuilds/week, we should 1) be sure not harming packages maintained by others 2) be sure of the results
<persia> DktrKranz: True, but scripting would be better.
<DktrKranz> Scripting would mean do it without manual intervention?
<Fujitsu> fujitsu@orko:~/mdt/versions$ wc -l unchanged_since_dapper
<Fujitsu> 1525 unchanged_since_dapper
<DktrKranz> If so, we should really inform people of the plan.
<imbrandon> concentrating on those 1500 sounds much more sane
<imbrandon> at leatse a good starting point
<imbrandon> e.g. higher priority
<Fujitsu> fujitsu@orko:~/mdt/versions$ wc -l unchanged_since_warty
<Fujitsu> 340 unchanged_since_warty
<DktrKranz> I think these are all almost broken
<minghua> Not necessarily.  They may be docs, fonts, etc.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: what kinda output can you quickly give those, like removing dupes then putting the 340 in red at the top , then the next X then the next X etc
<imbrandon> so they can atleaste be looked at in order, and maybe flagged as minghua said some maybe doc/fonts/etc
<persia> Just got feedback in -devel: Let's try to trim by reason: recompiling everything is frowned upon.
<Fujitsu> That makes sense.
<persia> Reasons I know off the top of my head: CDBS changes, docbook changes, ddeb generation.
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<persia> Anyone else have a couple reasons?
<Fujitsu> SSP..
<persia> Fujitsu: Doesn't that affect everything compiled?
<Fujitsu> Pretty much, so it's not useful here.
<persia> Fujitsu: When did we get SSP?
<Fujitsu> I don't recall.
<minghua> persia: I believe perl/python stuff are not affected by SSP change?
<persia> minghua: Right.  Not compiled by the buildds :)
<soren> Edgy.
<soren> minghua: ^^
<persia> soren: The beginning or the end of edgy?  Can we trust that all edgy uploads have SSP?
<minghua> soren: The "Edgy" is for me?
<soren> minghua: Yes.
<soren> persia: No.
<soren> :)
<minghua> soren: Why?  I didn't ask anything, persia asked...
<soren> minghua: Erh... Because I can't read?
<soren> :)
<persia> OK.  Can we trust that anything uploaded to feisty has SSP?
<Fujitsu> http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~fujitsu/mdt/unchanged/ has the raw stuff for the moment.
<soren> persia: No.
<soren> persia: Sorry. Yes.
<persia> unchanged since warty!
<DktrKranz> persia, can we trust anything with SSP is not broken?
<Fujitsu> Unless it has it explicitly disabled.
<soren> persia: It was added on June 30th last year.
<persia> DktrKranz: No, but those are different bugs.
<persia> soren: Thanks.
<soren> persia: So most of edgy, all of feisty.
<DktrKranz> I face dietlibc-related programs, which are *all* broken
<DktrKranz> Gotta go right now, see you later
<persia> OK.  CDBS: everything < hardy, SSP everything < June 30th 2006, docbook < feisty, ddeb : compare against ddeb repo.
<imbrandon> is the georga font installed on a default ubuntu system ? ( how would one find out )
<persia> + dietlibc : all
<minghua> imbrandon: fc-list Geogia?  I don't think it's installed by default.
<imbrandon> minghua: thanks
<minghua> s/Geogia/Georgia/
<minghua> Georgia is one of the Microsoft "web core fonts".
<imbrandon> ahh ok, i've always liked that font, just wondered if it was in the default
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Are you planning on looking at python-numpy for merge/sync (hint: I'd really rather not)?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I was talking to the maintainer about it this morning. I'll handle it.
<Fujitsu> (they're trying to work out what to do about f2py)
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Great.  I discussed it with them some on the Debian Python IRC channel over the weekend.
<persia> ScottK: Would you be willing to look at a python packaging effort?
<ScottK> persia: If it's quick and not for ~14 hours (am pretending to do $WORK right now).
<persia> ScottK: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lash is a new upload enabling the python libraries.  I just want to make sure it's sane, and don't understand python packaging well enough to check effectively.  Eyes only: no real testing needed.
<persia> (and not for ~14 hours works)
<ScottK> persia: OK.  I'll try to remember.  Someone feel free to ping me if I don't get to it tonight.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.
<\sh> Fujitsu, ping acidbase -> bug #173646 (CVE-2007-6156) -> only hardy is affected....should be fixed with a sync from debian
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173646 in acidbase "[CVE-2007-6156] cross site scripting vulnerability" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173646
<ubotu> Multiple cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerabilities in base_qry_main.php in Base Analysis and Security Engine (BASE) before 1.3.9 allow remote attackers to inject arbitrary web script or HTML via the (1) sig[0] and (2) sig[1] parameters. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-6156)
<Fujitsu> \sh: Looking.
<\sh> Fujitsu, I checked allready all former versions from dapper to gutsy :)
<Fujitsu> \sh: Very good, thanks.
<\sh> Fujitsu, the CVE is wrong. I informed nico already
<ScottK> superm1: Would you also please look at pigment.  I suspect it's good for a sync too.
<\sh> (wrong regarding the statement all versions before 1.3.9 it's only 1.3.8)
<Fujitsu> \sh: I can commit to testing-security now, if you ever need anything.
<Fujitsu> I'll mark it off in ubuntu-cve.
<Fujitsu> (and request a sync)
<Fujitsu> \sh: It hasn't been uploaded to Debian yet.
<\sh> Fujitsu, ah...it's on the list of the sponsor...
<\sh> Fujitsu, it will be automagically synced anyways
<Fujitsu> \sh: Yep.
<\sh> Fujitsu, I just synced mitre...and there are some new ones ;) rsync, asterisk etc....
<slicer> Anyone have time to look at the latest update for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mumble ?
<\sh> phew...wireshark in edgy and feisty are fixed now...now for gutsy :(
<slytherin> apachelogger_: ping
<apachelogger_> slytherin: hi
<slytherin> apachelogger_: Congrats. :-)
<apachelogger_> slytherin: thank you :)
 * persia suggests apachelogger_ really wants to do 10 reviews for REVU day today.
<apachelogger_> wow, 10 reviews
 * apachelogger_ also got other things to do :P
<slytherin> apachelogger_: Now that you are MOTU, do you have time to review my package officially? I hope I have incorporated all the things you suggested. :-)
<ScottK> apachelogger_: Just find 9 with gutsy in debian/changelog and do one real revu.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: a bit hard with only 10 there :)
<apachelogger_> lol
<ScottK> I guess I should've looked first.
<apachelogger_> bah, mumble makes me mumble
<imbrandon> gnight all
<Hobbsee> i havent, but persia's been talking about it
<persia> ScottK: All 10 are reasonable candidates too: no easy ones.
<apachelogger_> hm
<ScottK> persia: Good thing for me I'm still on strike then (modulo the one I agreed to look at).
<apachelogger_> mok0: I told you about the PD stuff :P
<persia> ScottK: That one is abusing REVU as a upload repo for an upgrade anyway: it's really bug #164333
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164333 in lash "Please upgrade to 0.5.4" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164333
<mok0> apachelogger_: yes? It's been superseeded it seems
<mok0> Douglas is distributing those files under the GPL, which he is entitled to
<apachelogger_> yes
<apachelogger_> but ye forgot about the copyrights :P
<mok0> D*mn
<apachelogger_> mok0: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=theseus
<persia> apachelogger_: Good catch!
<mok0> grrr
 * apachelogger_ takes a all new look at gcutils
<apachelogger_> hopefully the last one -.-
<slytherin> Do I have to specifically ask someone for reviewing my package or is it going to be done on FIFO basis?
<apachelogger_> sl#
<apachelogger_> hr
<apachelogger_> slytherin: nah, more like on a I feel like revuing that basis ;-)
<slytherin> apachelogger_: oh
<persia> slytherin: It's usually done in REVU order: FIFO, except that everything with a comment is pulled, and things with advocates go first.  Advertising that you're here might get someone to review your package, especially if you upload soon after a previous review, but when the list is this short, it doesn't help as much.
<slytherin> persia: apachelogger_ provided me some comments offline just few days before he became MOTU. :-) I have tried to incorporate those.
<persia> slytherin: Excellent.  It's always best to get reviews from lots of different sources for your package.
<mok0> apachelogger_: I addressed norsetto's comments. Have you got any before I re-upload?
<apachelogger_> mok0: nope
<mok0> ok, here goes...
<persia> mok0: Just to make sure, build-stamp doesn't need to be .PHONY, as you've touch $@
 * mok0 sighs
<mok0> persia: I did the change...
<persia> mok0: :(
<mok0> persia: I'll get rid of it again and make a note for norsetto
<persia> mok0: There you go :)
<persia> get-orig-source is .PHONY though.
<mok0> persia: yes. I switched off thinking and just did the change
<persia> mok0: Not best.  All the reviewers have different strengths and weaknesses, and we're all likely to be wrong sometimes.
<mok0> persia: Of course. Contributors tend to get sloppy when its getting close to the end, I guess....
<apachelogger_> mok0: totally
<persia> :)
<mok0> persia: there's always that one last thing you forget :-)
<persia> mok0: True for reviewers as well, which is one of the reasons I don't like to serially review packages when others aren't.  It's tempting to advocate because all the things I mentioned before are fixed, but that's not the right thing to do.
<mok0> persia: that's a very good point
<mok0> persia: it's probably better to be patient, and look at it again the next day
<persia> mok0: patience is usually good.
<ScottK> Bah.  Patience is for the, um ..., patient.
<apachelogger_> oioi
 * apachelogger_ testbuilds qca2 backport for feisty
<persia> ScottK: Never mind about the python packaging check: norsetto already uploaded.
<ScottK> persia: OK. Thanks.
<ScottK> persia: Just goes to show that usually if you procrastinate long enough, things take care of themselves.
<ScottK> ;-)
<norsetto> I'm accepting bets on how long it will take before I loose the connection
<persia> ScottK: See.  Patience is good :)
<ScottK> persia: patience != procrastination.
 * persia would disagree, but lacks sufficient ruth
<ScottK> persia: How much ruth is required?
<persia> ScottK: enough to overcome either the procrastination involved in developing a coherent reply or block the attitude of patience which indicates that all things will develop in the fullness of time
<ScottK> Right,  Which just shows patience != procrastination.  They have the same effect, but require an opposite will.
<persia> ScottK: So I'm procrastinating when I say "I ought to that, but not right now", and being patient when I say "I ought not do that right now"?
<ScottK> persia: Exactly.
 * persia does both
<apachelogger_> hum
<apachelogger_> norsetto and persia did leave because they knew I would come up with a question -.-
<apachelogger_> ScottK: bug 161835 - package removal request, the replacing package now creates a transitional package, just assign the bug to ubuntu-archive now?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 161835 in contactsmenu "[Package Removal Request] contactsmenu should be removed from hardy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161835
<ScottK> Subscribe, not assign if you're sure it's ready.
<apachelogger_> ScottK: ok, thanks
<dholbach> does anybody of you know how to write my own macro for moin? do I have to be site admin to deploy it?
<dholbach> according to HelpOnMacros I have to be, hrm
<dholbach> NICE.... [[Include(page,,editlink)]] is what I wanted - no need for a macro then :-)
 * emgent hi
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> phew
<geser> bddebian: Hi!
<bddebian> Heya geser
<\sh> there is one rule, when you work in a team in your company: if something really terrible happens to you, e.g. some servers are falling onto the ground and break into pieces, please learn to speak up...if not, the team has a problem...and afterwards you have a problem...just happened with a young one here...:(
<zul> \sh: your servers are so fragile that they break? :)
<\sh> zul, well, the server rails were deformed....
<zul> \sh: ah i see
<\sh> zul, and we have to buy new ones for those servers
<\sh> zul, and the guy didn't tell us, so we as a team were in question...(this guy left the company last week) :(
<zul> ah yes..i hate it when that happens
<\sh> I mean, there is really no big deal about it, it's insured everything, but he had to say something
<Ubulette> damn, tzdata is now stopping on a question even without vty/tty.
<Ubulette> apt-get -q -y upgrade in a non-interactive env is now stuck on tzdata :(
<ScottK> jdong: I can't set bug importance in gutsy-backports, so I think there's some permissions thing that needs to be flipped.
<\sh> ok..time to leave the office...cu later
<ScottK> Yeah.  Package history page is fixed on edge.
<jdong> ScottK: any idea how to fix that? Assign backporters as the driver?
<ScottK> jdong: No idea.
<ScottK> jdong: You're the boss.  I just volunteer here.
<mok0> wtf? pbsd_main.c:604: warning: string length '753' is greater than the length '509' ISO C90 compilers are required to support
<jdong> mok0: careful, gcc might go on strike if you continue using larger strings than the union contract agrees to!
<mok0> jdong: I've never seen this warning before. I'll have to investigate
<mok0> jdong: ah, it's a joke :)
<moteyalpha> I was advised you might know why Planeshift is not in the repository.
<moteyalpha> stdin are you a bot?
<stdin> no :p
<moteyalpha> lol
<moteyalpha> moteyalpha is slow today, went to wiki/MOTU and got an answer, Thx, Ishould just RTFM huh?
 * txwikinger wonders if he should read the whole Debian policy manual
<james_w> ian_brasil: hi. On the MOTU school page you voted for "How do Debian Packaging Teams work?", but your comment said "voted for mobile", did you make a mistake.
<ian_brasil> yes i did but i am happy to let my vote stand for the teams tutorial too
<james_w> ian_brasil: ok, I'll update it, thanks.
<ScottK> txwikinger: Well to be a DD, it's a requirement that you claim to have done it.  It certainly couldn't hurt.
<tsmithe> apachelogger__, re your comment on the upstream tarball: it has been modified because upstream supplies a bzipped archive, whereas we want a gzipped one. the recompression would obviously be a form of modification, no?
<tsmithe> (about mscore, this is)
<LucidFox> If upstream ships a bz2 archive, just bunzip2 the tar and then gzip -9 it
<tsmithe> hmm actually that sounds saner than unpacking it completely
<ScottK> Substantially.
<Adri2000> dfiloni: hi. any progress on wxwidgets2.8?
<dfiloni> Adri2000: tomorrow I wil work at the package, now I'm working at italian weekly newsletter
<dfiloni> *will
<Adri2000> ok, great
<slicer> Is there a way to get revu to send you an email when someone posts a comment?
<Adri2000> slicer: not as far as I know
<ScottK> slicer: There's a mailing list you can subscribe to that gets them all.
<griffinc> asac: ping
<asac> griffinc: pong
<griffinc> hello.  :-)  I have uploaded debdiffs for a merge.  Would have time to take a look?
<ScottK> keescook: Ping.
<bddebian> ScottK: You never finished tell me what you thought slangasek was trying to drill in to my dumb arse :-)
<bddebian> telling even..
<ScottK> bddebian: Don't ask me now.  I'm old and I forgot about 10 seconds after I mentioned it.
 * ScottK has a vague recollection of thinking he was trying to be helpful and not just mess with you.
<bddebian> :-)
<keescook> ScottK: pong, from under piles of email
<ScottK> keescook: Sure.  Are you responsible for security in partner repo too?
<ScottK> keescook: If so, just thought I'd make sure you were aware of the unpatched openssl097 that was uploaded there recently....
<mok0> What is "partner repo"? Excuse my ignorance pls
<keescook> ScottK: not directly, but I have upload rights.  We're aware of the issue, but since nothing in hardy is linked against it except vmware-server and there is no -dev package for it, and vmware-server doesn't use any of the vulnerable functions, it's technically safe.
<keescook> we're waiting for vmware to build against 098, and this was used as a temporary work-around
<ScottK> keescook: Good  I'm glad it's not a real issue.
<ScottK> keescook: It was more than a little disheartening to see it reappear after having expended a lot of effort personally to get it out of Universe before the Gutsy release.
<ScottK> mok0: It's Canonical's commercial repo for stuff that's not distributable without a license.
<keescook> ScottK: yup, I feel the pain.  I did tons of universe control+rebuild uploads for edgy to get fewer things to link against it.
<mok0> ScottK: interesting, thanks
<txwikinger> ScottK: what is more important? consistency or policy?
<ScottK> txwikinger: Depends on the context.  What specifically.
<txwikinger> I have packaged this perl-library package
<ScottK> OK.
<txwikinger> it is an additional library for tk
<ScottK> Yes.
<txwikinger> perl-tk
<txwikinger> it is arch-independent
<txwikinger> so it should be in usr/share/perl5
<ScottK> Shouldn't it be something like libtk-perl?
<txwikinger> yes
<txwikinger> but libtk-perl is arch-dependent
 * ScottK looks for the Perl policy.
<txwikinger> anyway... all similar arch-independent libraries for tk are in /usr/lib/perl5 where tk is
<maiatoday> is there a log file for last friday's MOTU Q&A in the classroom, please?
<Pici> !logs | maiatoday perhaps
<ubotu> maiatoday perhaps: Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<ScottK> txwikinger: I'm reading of Perl policy right now.
<txwikinger> is it on the MOTU wiki?
<maiatoday> ubotu thanks, irclogs did the trick
<ScottK> txwikinger: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/perl-policy/
<txwikinger> Ah debian :)
<ScottK> txwikinger: If you haven't read that, then check that and see if your question is answered.  I think it is.
<txwikinger> well, I know what lintian says and it makes sense
<txwikinger> I think it is just odd that all the other ones are in the wrong place
<txwikinger> ScottK: yes it is there: In each of the directory pairs above, the lib component is for binary (XS) modules, and share for architecture-independent (pure-perl) modules.
<ScottK> I'd suggest then that you see if you can figure out why the others are located where they are.  It may be a bug or there may be some special reason.
<txwikinger> ScottK: Yes, I will do that
<bdgraue> jdong: i requested to backport psi 0.11, i tried to build it with prevu and added the logto https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bug/173532 , ScottK told me it would need an source backport. can you take a look at this?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173532 in feisty-backports "please backport psi 0.11" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> jdong: I'm leaving it to you if it's worthy of a source backport or not.
<ScottK> bdgraue: Be patient.  I wouldn't be suprised if jdong is in class or something right now.
<bdgraue> yes, thanks for you help ScottK
<ScottK> No problem.
<jdong> ScottK / bdgraue I am indeed in class, in the middle of a final project, and have to answer to an exam soon
<jdong> so give me 6 hours and I'll do backports :)
<ScottK> jdong: Do it now or we cut your pay in half.
<bdgraue> good luck for the exam, jdong
<SWAT> is 'smart' to remove LDFLAGS from the ./configure command? Without my package seems to build fine.
<dcordero> hi
<dcordero> i know how to do packages, i have learn reading the Packaging Guide, but, how and where can i get experience and how to check if my packages are correctly created?
<ScottK> dcordero: This is the place.
<ScottK> You can upload your packages to REVU and MOTUs will have a look at them and give you feedback.
<ScottK> !revu| dcordero
<ubotu> dcordero: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<keescook> Fujitsu: you have some mplayer security bugs set to "in progress" without a debdiff.  is that intentional?  (should they be "triaged" until there's a debdiff?)
<dcordero> i see, thanks
<SWAT> on that note, is it safe to just remove the LDFLAGS in debian/rules on the './configure' line? There it doesn't accept += to 'add' them instead of replacing them.
<slangasek> SWAT: can you describe more concretely what it is you're doing?
<SWAT> I'm compiling a package from source. If LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs" (at ./configure), then it complains about not finding libraries. If I remove LDFLAGS from the ./configure line, it works. But I imagine that LDFLAGS set more or less important additional libraries. So it's probably 'nice' to 'add' them (+= or something like that) instead of completely removing them
<slangasek> first of all, LDFLAGS is only supposed to be used for flags, not libraries.  second, LDFLAGS are not (generally, currently) set from outside debian/rules itself, so if this is the only value of LDFLAGS being set in debian/rules it's probably ok to drop it from ./configure - but if you have any doubts, the more "correct" way is to not set -Wl,-z,defs in the first place
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<geser> Hi TheMuso
<lifeless> where?
<slangasek> SWAT: third - what package is this?  -Wl,-z,defs is very important, and with the exception of things that are plugins, things that fail to build under -Wl,-z,defs are buggy
<lifeless> slangasek: buggy or hard core old style unix trickery abusers.
<slangasek> lifeless: I consider the latter a subset of the former ;)
<lifeless> :)
<ScottK> Heya TheMuso.
<slangasek> lifeless: yes, it's either buggy or it's c-client; see also: buggy
<SWAT> slangasek, it's a small application. But thanks for the info. I think the application itself sets a lot of things (when ldflags is active, the libraries don't link). But I know enough, thanks a lot!
<jcastro> ScottK: got some time, I have a motu procedural question
<ScottK> jcastro: If ot
<ScottK> it's quick
<jcastro> I have this guy who fixed bug 91964 by applying a patch and publishing via ppa
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 91964 in network-manager-vpnc "No Option To Save Group Password" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91964
<nxvl_work> jcastro: just ask, if ScottK can't someone else can help you
<slangasek> SWAT: yes, if they're libraries failing to link with -Wl,-z,defs, then the libraries are missing declarations of their dependencies; the consequences of this can range from undeclared package dependencies to improper resolution of versioned symbols
<jcastro> is that useful or is there a more "correct" way?
<jcastro> nxvl_work: thanks!
<ScottK> jcastro: Let me look
<DaveMorris> is there a nice watch file howot I can read?
<nxvl_work> jcastro: a patch is a better way, so any sponsor can look at it, instead of creating it or checking the diff.gz and compare them
<ScottK> jcastro: Well that's useful for testing, but he really ought to work on getting it into Ubuntu.
<ScottK> DaveMorris: man uscan.  Did you ask about this yesterday?
<jcastro> ScottK: ok
<jcastro> nxvl_work: ok, so should I have him post the patch instead?
<DaveMorris> ScottK: I did, however that just explains what it is, not what files I should be watching on the ftp/http servers
<ScottK> jcastro: What we need is a debdiff for the package that's suitable for upload.
<nxvl_work> jcastro: yep, but i think you can ask him to post it too
<jcastro> ok, and attach the debdiff to the bug then?
<ScottK> DaveMorris: That depends on the package and where it is.  It's the tarball for the package you want.
<nxvl_work> jcastro: yes
<jcastro> excellent, thanks guys!
<ajmitch> jcastro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<nxvl_work> jcastro: if he post the debdiff is easier to look what exacly has he changed
<ScottK> jcastro: and then subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug (assuming the package is in universe)
<DaveMorris> ScottK: what happens when it's changed then?
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | It's REVU Day.  Uploaders: please refresh your uploads, and ask for review.  Reviewers, let's close all the open reviews from the top of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/ | Hi
<ScottK> Argh.
 * ScottK tries again.
<ajmitch> :)
<\sh> highvoltage, dude, just see my comment on your blog :) those are important games, forget battle of wesnoth ,-)
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | It's REVU Day.  Uploaders: please refresh your uploads, and ask for review.  Reviewers, let's close all the open reviews from the top of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/
<nxvl_work> is there any way of getting the sources from a .deb file?
<\sh> nxvl, nope...in .deb files are no source files (no tar.gz if you mean this)
<dsop> nxvl_work: dpkg -x or -X ?
<nxvl_work> dsop: this is from a dsc, not from a deb file
<\sh> going back to bed :)
<norsetto> nxvl_work: you mean the files inside a deb?
<nxvl_work> norsetto: i have a deb, and i want to make some changes so i need the sources, but they aren't available, can i get them?
<norsetto> nxvl_work: not from the deb
<nxvl_work> norsetto: ok, i will make it from tha tar.gz, thnx
<norsetto> nxvl_work: is it from ubuntu?
<nxvl_work> i'm working on bug #145193
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145193 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Phatch" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145193
<norsetto> nxvl_work: and there is a deb somewhere you want to use as a starting point I guess?
<nxvl_work> norsetto: yep
<norsetto> nxvl_work: hmmm, if its from getdeb you should find the sources there too
<nxvl_work> norsetto: i will do it the traditional way :D
<TheMuso> Is anbody working on the transcode package? If so, there is https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/173662 to be considered.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173662 in transcode "needs rebuild for libglib1.2ldbl transition" [Undecided,New]
<TheMuso> anybody
<TheMuso> If not, I'll take care of it.
<nxvl_work> if i'm doing a new package, should i name ubuntu1 to the version or it's only if i make changes to it?
<norsetto> nxvl_work: upstreamversion-0ubuntu1
<nxvl_work> thnx
<Fujitsu> keescook: They're fixed by the debdiff in the other bug.
<keescook> Fujitsu: oh! okay, sorry
<keescook> (i haven't made my way through all of them yet)
<nxvl_work> where can i find a list of "Section"'s and the criteria to pick one
<DaveMorris> ScottK: is this correct for a watch file http://www.pastebin.ca/804866  I run uscan-report and it doesn't return anything so I'm not sure
<keescook> Fujitsu: I must be blind, I can't find any mplayer bug in-progress with a debdiff
<Fujitsu> keescook: Hum, I'll give you a number in a sec.
<geser> nxvl_work: Debian policy should contain a list
<Fujitsu> Bug #92968
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 92968 in mplayer "CVE-2007-1246: MPlayer DMO buffer overflow" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92968
<Fujitsu> keescook: ^^
<norsetto> nxvl_work: if you want the debian/, most probably is available in the bzr branch: https://launchpad.net/phatch/
<keescook> Fujitsu: ah-ha!  thanks.
<nxvl_work> norsetto: thnx
<nxvl_work> norsetto: the developer should post it on the bug :S
<james_w> DaveMorris: try uscan --report-status
<nxvl_work> norsetto: it isn't there :S
<DaveMorris> james_w: thanks
<Fujitsu> Um, anybody here use yarssr? There was apparently a regression (bug #172667), but I tested the patch beforehand, and can't reproduce it even now.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172667 in yarssr "yarssr improperly generates urls" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172667
<dsop> oh revu day
<apachelogger__> still -.-
<apachelogger__> will that never end
<dsop> hehe
<apachelogger__> dsop: so, what is to be revued?
<dsop> apachelogger__: for you, nothing, still searching somebody who is willing to be the second advocate on my gcutils
<dsop> apachelogger__: you allready advocated (thx so far)
<apachelogger__> aye :)
<apachelogger__> jpatrick: pling
<jpatrick> apachelogger: can't tonight, not suppose to be online right now ;)
<frafu> Hello, If I remember correctly, some time ago I downloaded the changes of which revision of a project in launchpad as a diff file; unfortunately I cannot find anymore how to do it. Has that possibility been removed?
<apachelogger> jpatrick: ok :)
<apachelogger> mok0: pling
<DaveMorris> can someone please review my package at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest (takes around 5 mins to build on my machine)
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: did I comment on it already?
<apachelogger> ah
<apachelogger> diffent package
<apachelogger> nm
<frafu> Another question: I uploaded a package to revu and a reviewer posted some comments. Unfortunately I don't understand one of the comments and posted also a comment to ask for more details. Will the reviewer be automatically notified about my comment?
<james_w> DaveMorris: libcpptest-dev should be Section: libdevel
<apachelogger> frafu: no
<james_w> DaveMorris: you don't need XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<apachelogger> frafu: you might try to reach him on IRC, usually fastest solution
<james_w> (unless this is from Debian, but I guessed not)
<DaveMorris> james_w: how come?  No one else has picked up on it?
<DaveMorris> no it's a new package
<james_w> DaveMorris: which one?
<DaveMorris> XSBC-Original-Maintain
<frafu>  apachelogger: thanks; he is not online at the moment
<dsop> apachelogger: grad gesehen, das du paniq kennst/magst
<james_w> well, you can have it, you don't *need* it. It states who maintains it in a distro that Ubuntu merged from and in this case that is none. Your name is in changelog if people want to see who packaged it.
<james_w> DaveMorris: if you want to have absolute control then put yourself in Maintainer:
<apachelogger> dsop: kinda ;-)
<DaveMorris> no I'm fine
<DaveMorris> just wondered why no-one else had picked up on it
<dsop> apachelogger: from where, demoscene stuff or just found it somehwere in the inet?
<apachelogger> james_w: nope, I really think our policy says ubuntu motu needs to be maintainer
<apachelogger> that's why XSBC-Original-Maintainer is used
<apachelogger> dsop: the amarok founder knows him personally IIRC
<apachelogger> and since I'm part of the team I came to get in contact with his work ;-)
<DaveMorris> so what should I use?
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: from my knowledge you should stick to the current version
<james_w> apachelogger: I believe Original-Maintainer was to prevent claiming a package was maintained by the Debian maintainer when Ubuntu had changed it. However whether or not ubuntu-motu is in maintainer is a different question.
<apachelogger> you might check back with a third motu though
<james_w> second, I'm not a motu
<apachelogger> ok, so my opinion is more imporant :P
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: well, seriously check back with another motu whether it is needed
 * apachelogger is quite sure though
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: Standards-Version: 3.7.2.2 please
<DaveMorris> sispoty didn't say not to have it when he reviewed it before
<apachelogger> so it might at least be legal ;-)
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: you might put the source package section to libs and remove it from the binary section of libcpptest0
<apachelogger> saves you one line
<james_w> DaveMorris: shouldn't -doc be Architecture: all?
<DaveMorris> any != all then?
<apachelogger> depends on the doc type
<imbrandon> maintainer must equal a @ubuntu.com or @kubuntu.org email address, if it dosent , even for new packages it needs to use Orig-Main as the packager and MOTU as the Maint addr
<imbrandon> ( this is on the wiki )
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: nope, any states it can be built for any platform, so you still ned up with builds for all platforms
<james_w> sorry, I was just describing a suggested convention then.
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: control: line 18, 30, 42 -> unnecessary white space at line end
<james_w> DaveMorris: no, any means build it on each architecture, all means you can build it on one and install it on the rest.
<james_w> DaveMorris: is there is reason that you patch the .pc file in to place, rather than installing from debian/?
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: you might want to add a description text like "This package contains the development libraries and headers" for lib and -doc as well
<james_w> DaveMorris: also did you send that file upstream?
<Ubulette> Prism needs review / test from someone. Please, have a look. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=798 or at least tell me why it's being ignored
<keescook> \sh_away: just a note for your CVE debdiffs: can you use your own words for the "SECURITY UPDATE:" section?  I like having a short summary of the issue in the form "[worst case] from [cause]".  This is mentioned on the SecurityUpdateProcedures wiki.  Regardless, thanks.  Keep up the great work.  :)
<DaveMorris> apachelogger: isn't that obvs?
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: might not be to users
<DaveMorris> james_w: afaik it doesn't matter which way you do it, and no I've not sent it upstream yet
<keescook> Fujitsu: sweet, I think I've got all your uploads processed now.  Thanks for getting them all ready!  :)
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: then you could use the same reason to remove the text from the -dev
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: typo: "framework" not "frame work"
<DaveMorris> true
<Fujitsu> keescook: Thanks.
<james_w> DaveMorris: the .a file belongs in the -dev package.
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: line 16, 28, 40 also have a trailing white space
<imbrandon> the .a file should die, iirc we dont wwant static libs unless nessesary
<apachelogger> yep
<james_w> DaveMorris: what imbrandon said as well.
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: just don't list the .a files in any .install
<slangasek> hrm? the vast majority of libraries still ship static libs
<apachelogger> imbrandon: extendability isn't a valid word, is it?
<james_w> DaveMorris: also the /usr/include files should be in the -dev package.
<james_w> DaveMorris: sorry, being stupid, they are already I see.
<imbrandon> slangasek: sure but we dont want them e.g i've always been told to rm the .a and .la:)
<slangasek> imbrandon: for new packages or packages imported from Debian?  I don't think deleting the .a is a very good reason to diverge from Debian...
<slangasek> (deleting .la files is worthwhile everywhere, OTOH :)
<imbrandon> slangasek: yea, this is for NEW NEW
<imbrandon> is the reason i mentioned it
<imbrandon> e.g. -0ubuntu1 version
<DaveMorris> any other problems guys?
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: typo: extensibility, not extendability
<pgquiles> is it possible to build packages using pbuilder and distcc? I'm building a customized kernel and it takes forever :-(
<apachelogger> -dev should depend on libcpptest0 (= ${source:Version})
<slangasek> ${binary:Version}, really
<slangasek> (not a relevant difference for Ubuntu, but relevant for Debian)
<apachelogger> *shrug*
<apachelogger> ok
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: in copyright please include GPL version of packaging
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: trailing white space at line 4
<DaveMorris> apachelogger:  so for the depends do I put in what you've posted and cdbs works it out for me, or do I need to put the numbers in myself
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: yep, but as slangasek state you should use binary:Version
<apachelogger> trailing white space at line 11 of debian/rules
<DaveMorris> is trailing spaces really an issue?
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: nah, but really no biggie to fix, is it?
<james_w> DaveMorris: also your debian/copyright should be more like http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/46756/
<DaveMorris> I'm fixing them
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: please remove commented cruft from debian/watch
<james_w> (and apachelogger's comment about the version of yout packaging).
<DaveMorris> the commented cruft was in the gnash example I looked at
<apachelogger> there is no such thing as a perfect example package ;-)
<dsop> james_w: shouldn't be said which version of the gpl is used ?
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: at least the intro crap can be removed
<james_w> dsop: yes.
<apachelogger> pointed that out already
<james_w> DaveMorris: sorry, can you break the long line in the copyright file that I pasted, my mistake.
<ScottK> james_w: We usually use orignal maintainer for new packages, but you're right.  It's not required.
<ScottK> DaveMorris: No response from uscan is normal when it found the current version.
<DaveMorris> thanks
<DaveMorris> anything else, I think I've kept up with your changes and make them all
<james_w> ScottK: ah, thanks for the clarification.
<ScottK> james_w: Generally for new packages it's set to whoever packaged it.
<ScottK> If anyone wants revu comments/uploads via mail, you can sign up here: http://lists.tauware.de/listinfo/motu-reviewers
<ScottK> imbrandon: Since you're making RSS feeds, http://lists.tauware.de/listinfo/motu-reviewers might be nice to have as a feed.
<imbrandon> ScottK: k
<apachelogger> hm
<apachelogger> actually
<apachelogger> I should blog about the list, especially how to filter it to personal needs ;-)
<apachelogger> though revu should really get an automatic notification on comment feature for uploaders
<persia> apachelogger: The code is out there: patches encouraged.
<ScottK> persia: You type faster than I do.
<apachelogger> I no :P
 * persia is skeptical, and suspects distraction
<apachelogger> persia: what is revu written in anyway?
<ScottK> apachelogger: Python
<apachelogger> hm
<apachelogger> <-- not exactly a python haxor :|
<james_w> DaveMorris: rest looks good to me.
<persia> DaveMorris: cpptest advocated
<apachelogger> persia: btw, you might take a look at theseus, should be kinda advocatable
<DaveMorris> persia: I was just fixing the issues others had mentioned
<tsmithe> apachelogger, new upload of mscore to revu: This upload fixes all the above issues, fixes a regression (by installing a small soundfont enabling instant playback, which had been lost due to the patch to use the Ubuntu-supplied FluidSynth), installs an icon, and fixes the .desktop file to work in KDE as well as GNOME/XFCE.
 * persia hides in shame
<tsmithe> (where the above issues were those you raised on revu)
<ScottK> DaveMorris: If persia has already advocated your package, you might check to make sure the other comments you got are correct from his perspective.
<apachelogger> persia: hide in theseus :P
<tsmithe> apachelogger, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=855 if you are interested
 * persia disagrees with ScottK: there are many reviewers for a reason
<apachelogger> tsmithe: checking that out as soon as cpptest ist uploaded
<mok0> apachelogger: :-)
<tsmithe> apachelogger, thank you
<Fujitsu> Anybody around who knows much Perl?
<DaveMorris> btw guys I've got a package coming which takes around 3-4hrs on my machine, if I push it to my ppa to build and link to it would that help you?
<persia> DaveMorris: Not for most reviewers: we still need to build locally for advocation.
<DaveMorris> but for spotting the stupid mistakes before hand?
 * ScottK looks around for StevenK
<ScottK> DaveMorris: If it builds locally for you, you'll find them.
<ScottK> PPA isn't really so great for answering the question 'will this build'
<apachelogger> just blocks ppa
<DaveMorris> I was thinking of what files are in the debs
<persia> DaveMorris: With a local build, you can check that with dpkg --contents and dpkg --extract
<ScottK> DaveMorris: I'd look at that after I built it locally anyway.
<DaveMorris> question.  I use pbuilder to build locally, how can I test the debs it creats as it seems to delete them afterwards
<apachelogger> /var/cache/pbuilder/results
<apachelogger> or maybe result
<apachelogger> *shrug*
<DaveMorris> cheers
<DaveMorris> docs for this package end up at around 100MB is that a problem?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> Not inherently.
<DaveMorris> it's because it's a lib so there are developer docs generated
<persia> DaveMorris: Just be sure to put the 100MB in a arch-all package (so if you're normally arch-any, split out a -docs package)
<DaveMorris> yeah it's got a lib/-dev/-doc split out
<persia> DaveMorris: Given the size, you might even want -doc and -apt-doc: the first with manpages & basic documentation, and the second with the full API reference.
<persia> s/-apt-doc/-api-doc/
<apachelogger> persia: please check the changes: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cpptest
<ScottK> persia: I don't see us having any api-doc packages now.  Is there documentation support for that approach?
<apachelogger> persia: btw, since it's LGPL2+ IMO linking to /LGPL is fine
<DaveMorris> apachelogger: jsut wait a few mins for the next upload
<DaveMorris> I changed it to link to 2.1
<apachelogger> uhm
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: -2 I'd say
<persia> apachelogger: I see whitespace, useless precision in standards-version, spelling/grammar edits, good call on libcpptest-dev dependencies, appropriate fix for -doc architecture, comments drop in the watch file, and a useful drop of the .a file.
<macogw> hey MOTU is in charge of Firefox 3, right?
<ScottK> macogw: Not really.
<DaveMorris> -2 is the Library 1
<ScottK> macogw: Talk to asac or mozillateam.
<macogw> ScottK: who does it?  it's in universe accordng to apt-cache show
<macogw> ok
<ScottK> It is, but there are things in Universe we don't really deal with.
<persia> macogw: Yes, MOTU does it, but #ubuntu-mozillateam does it more specifically.
<dsop> just a last question before I leave until friday. Please can some motu review / advocate my package (gcutils).
<DaveMorris> the latest upload is there now guys
<ScottK> He didn't last long.
<somerville32> hmm?
<apachelogger> persia: aye :)
<Ubulette> I did the last few ff3 updates
<persia> Ubulette: Unfortunately, the querant has left :(
 * persia encourages someone to review prism
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: get persia's advocate
 * persia is looking at other packages, and won't have time to recompile & retest cpptest soon.
<Ubulette> persia, you're done with prism ? i've pushed an update just after your last comment, then nothing happened.
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: find someone else to advocate then ;-)
<persia> Ubulette: I don't have accounts for most of the mentioned web services, so I can't easily do the proper testing to advocate.  Similar situation for me-tv (I don't have a DVB card)
<persia> Ubulette: As far as I can see, prism is done & ready: it just needs a couple testers to confirm.
 * apachelogger grabs prism
<ScottK> persia: For stuff like me-tv, I think it's sufficient to see that it's packaged properly and doesn't break systems.  I think works/doesn't work is more of an upstream question.
<apachelogger> ah
<apachelogger> first mscore :D
<persia> ScottK: Well, there's a reviewer that has a DVB card reviewing, and apparently it doesn't work.  Upstream is the packager, so I continue to believe it to be relevant.
<ScottK> persia: OK.  Well if it's known not to work, that's different.
<persia> Further, part of packaging new packages is working with upstream to get the package in shape for Ubuntu systems.  We can deal with bugs, but > 70% crash on run, or showstopper issues should be checked before advocation.
<DaveMorris> ScottK: I have a DVB-T card and can see if it works, also poke superm1 his a motu and looks after mythtv packages
<ScottK> Agreed to a point.
<persia> ScottK: My point is only that we should check to see if it's known not to work :)
<persia> DaveMorris: superm1 doesn't have DVB.
<ScottK> Agreed to that point.
<apachelogger> tsmithe: what's the point of README.Debian
<tsmithe> to explain to future packages what's going on, and my rationale for various things in light of the patches, which may not be obvious to others
<somerville32> tsmithe, Maybe you should explain README.Debian in it too since apachelogger didn't seem to get it :P
<tsmithe> haha
<apachelogger> tsmithe: line 40 -> white spaces all over the place ;-)
<tsmithe> which file?
<tsmithe> does it /really/ matter? :p
<apachelogger> copyright
<ScottK> Without having looks, I think that's an excellent use of README.Debian.
<apachelogger> tsmithe: how does it not :P
<DktrKranz> bddebian, a new contributor is working on bug 173473, which is a package you uploaded in Debian. Should he proceed?
<DaveMorris> wastes people's bandwidth
<somerville32> lol
<tsmithe> apachelogger, mainly because i can't be bothered to upload a new one :p
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173473 in inkscape "Missing link to Mac OS X packages in localized versions of the website" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173473
 * somerville32 slaps tsmithe on head with a plastic shovel.
<tsmithe> hehe
<somerville32> tsmithe, Don't be lazy :P
<apachelogger> tsmithe: well, just as a note, maybe I find other stuff which might cause an upload :P
<tsmithe> apachelogger, kk
<DktrKranz> bddebian, erm... bug 173743
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173743 in xdigger "xdigger doesn't appear correctly in the menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173743
<somerville32> DaveMorris, kind of like you just did? :P j/k
<tsmithe> somerville32, not lazy, just tired :) (plus waiting for uploads is boring)
<somerville32> tsmithe, Go walk the dog then
<tsmithe> he's asleep
<persia> DktrKranz: If the fix is in Debian, no point.  If the fix is missing, it's not bad to update, and we'll grab the patch for Debian.
<apachelogger> tsmithe: please linebreak before libjack-dev, build-dep in control and start the next line with a white space (80 characters exceeded)
<tsmithe> ah ok, i didn't know if that was allowed (so i assumed wrongly not)
<tsmithe> i'm not seeing this whitespace
<persia> tsmithe: I can't find any evidence that Gort's MiniPiano is actually free.  Could you point me somewhere?
<DktrKranz> persia, I don't think the fix is already in Debian. It'a missing desktop file and icon
<persia> DktrKranz: In that case, having a new contributor work on it is fine.  It will show on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/games.html, and can be put back into Debian.
<tsmithe> persia, yes, i was beginning to have doubts, too, but then i assumed that the soundfont was produced by the author, and thus he held copyright and the licence was good, and although sources weren't given, neither were they for most images in most other packages. <- that was my rationale
<tsmithe> who is "Gort"?
<DktrKranz> persia, Ok. I will mentor him doing his first debdiff, then.
<persia> tsmithe: Unfortunately not.  The soundfont has an identity string "Gort's MiniPiano" and appears on lots of download sites, but I also don't know who Gort is :(
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<persia> tsmithe: Separately, if you happen to find a couple free soundfonts, I think they'd do well as a separate package (or packages), upon which fluidsynth, timidity, etc. can depend.
<tsmithe> persia, hmm, so that's probably where the author got it
<tsmithe> persia, yes, i think jussi01 was looking into that too
<persia> tsmithe: Right.  Upstream not checking licensing is annoyingly common, and unfortunate.
<apachelogger> tsmithe: you have to begin the new line of build-depens with a white space
<apachelogger> tsmithe: IMO you should list who claims copyright on which files
<tsmithe> hmmph
<tsmithe> persia thought that wasn't necessary
<persia> tsmithe: Which?
<tsmithe> re copyrights
<tsmithe> apachelogger, could you point out the whitespace, because it looks fine to me
<tsmithe> (in debian/copyright at line 40, you said?)
<apachelogger>     
<apachelogger> see it? :P
<persia> Ah.  Right.  That's my opinion.  If there is a body of code with lots of contributors under a common license, I don't see the point of separating out all the individual copyright holders for files.  If there are separate libraries merged in, or significant adaption of modular bits, I'd agree it has value.
<apachelogger> TheMuso: the line between license and license path
<somerville32> themuso?
<apachelogger> persia: various files are
 * persia encourages people not to repeat highlights for incorrect nicks.
<somerville32> lol
<apachelogger> meh
 * somerville32 encourages persia to write a book.
<persia> apachelogger: Modular, and pulled from other sources?  In that case I'd agree.
<apachelogger> TheMuso: sorry ;-)
<somerville32> lol
<persia> tsmithe: My previous discussion was without reference to source: more theoretical.
<tsmithe> ok
<apachelogger> persia: well, at least pulled form other sources
<tsmithe> nonetheless, do i really have to list the files? i've not seen that many other packages that do it..
<tsmithe> also, interestingly, i just came across http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/muse/muse_0.6.3-3/copyright
<persia> apachelogger: That's fine.  On the other hand, for different copyright holders on a single body of work, I don't see the point of pulling it apart.
<tsmithe> which seems to be for a similar named package which is no longer in debian, and mentions the soundfont issue
<tsmithe> also, the author is the same
<tsmithe> odd
<tsmithe> woah
<tsmithe> the package already exists
<persia> tsmithe: MuSE was pulled from Debian?
<tsmithe> i thought it was called "mscore", so i've just wasted a hell of a lot of time
<apachelogger> meh
 * persia stops reviewing & archives
<tsmithe> sorry guys
<apachelogger> -.-
<tsmithe> actually, the description doesn't sound identical. i'm installing to make sure, hang on. god i'm confused
<persia> tsmithe: It's a great application.  Thanks for trying :)
<tsmithe> heh :)
<tsmithe> right muse != mscore
<tsmithe> mscore is a qt4 notation program. muse is a sequencer.
<tsmithe> now i do feel like an idiot
<DaveMorris> lol
<persia> tsmithe: Unfortunately, I've already archived.  Please address some of the issues from apachelogger's comments & my initial partial review & reupload.
<DaveMorris> your just tired
<tsmithe> i will do that
<persia> (this unarchives)
<tsmithe> yes
<Fujitsu> keescook: Around?
<tsmithe> persia, apachelogger, i'll reupload tomorrow when i hear back from upstream regarding the soundfont
<apachelogger> tsmithe: looks good to me so far, apart from the issues persia already mentioned
 * apachelogger checks debian/rules
<tsmithe> thank you
<persia> tsmithe: Please upload without the soundfont.  I'd really prefer a separate soundfont package upon which all of mscore, muse, fluidsynth, timidity, etc. could recommend.
<keescook> Fujitsu: back in a bit, what's up?
<DaveMorris> anyone know how to fix man pages problems?
<persia> mok0: The torque license is impressively restrictive.
<persia> DaveMorris: Which problem?
<DaveMorris> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial
<mok0> persia: yeah it's weird
<DktrKranz> I was looking at bug 173347. Is it correct to build-depend on a virtual package (libcurl4-dev, provided by libcurl4-gnutls-dev) ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173347 in claws-mail-extra-plugins "[ftbfs]Fail to build due to missing build-dep" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173347
<tsmithe> persia, right. it just is nice to have an application which you can open up and use first off, say, including a minimal soundfont of its own to enable this. i suppose another soundfont package could then provide a "default" soundfont, using the alternatives system or so, and then the configuration of mscore could point to that to enable ease of use, but that seems a bit of a long way round
<persia> DaveMorris: man lexgrog about the whatis issue.  For \- vs. \(hy just edit to use \- when it's not in the middle of a word, or joining words, and \(hy when it is.
<mok0> persia: I've discussed it with several ppl here, and there seems to be a consensus that even though it's weird, it can go into universe
<Fujitsu> keescook: My security update caused a regression in some configurations of yarssr. I believe I've got a better patch now, an will try to talk to Debian about it.
<persia> tsmithe: As we've *no* free soundfonts as far as I know, I'd rather separate, and have things Depend: on it, as I agree it should work out of the box.
<tsmithe> if the application didn't appear to work because it couldn't find a default soundfont, that wouldn't be pretty for new users. however, i suppose i agree
<Fujitsu> Because their fix is the same, and similarly broken.
<persia> mok0: Multiverse.  1) Registration Requirement, 2) No patching
<Fujitsu> persia: freepats?
<keescook> Fujitsu: okay, sounds good.  (they have the regression too?)
<Fujitsu> keescook: As far as I know.
<persia> Fujitsu: freepats isn't a soundfont, but it's what we use as a bandaid in the meantime :)
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<mok0> persia: mmm yes, perhaps (?)
<tsmithe> persia, and it's not compatible, is it?
<persia> tsmithe: No, but it works for timidity (but not well), and includes most of GM.
<persia> tsmithe: Maybe someone from the ubuntu-sound-art team makes patches?
<persia> mok0: Oh, and not being able to get paid for redistribution as well.
<tsmithe> maybe, but i wouldn't know
<persia> tsmithe: Just a pointer if you run into a wall with upstream, and want to look for others to help get something together :)
<mok0> persia: yeah, but that is not relevant for ubuntu, me things
<mok0> thinks
<persia> mok0: I thought we allowed people to sell Ubuntu if they wished.  Maybe I'm mistaken.
<tsmithe> persia, thanks
<persia> mok0: That's a very different debian/rules.  I like it :)
<mok0> persia: :-)
<mok0> persia: I've started using cdbs recentlly
<persia> Grr.  I want to say "please differentiate hyphen & minus", but the license forbids doing so.  I really don't like this package.
<mok0> persia: It says "there can be no charge for the software or any software incorporating the Software". But that is not the same as charging for a distribution, or for service.
<persia> mok0: Hmmm..  Could be debated, and jurisdictionally dependent, but this isn't the forum, and we aren't the appropriate individuals.  The "no patches" and "registration" requirements are sufficient to force multiverse.
<mok0> persia: Of course we could contact Veridian and ask
<mok0> persia: Multiverse is ok with me
<persia> mok0: Given the care with which the license is written, I think multiverse + lots of requests for upstream changes is best for now.  Upstream being free would be better.
<james_w> DktrKranz: put the real package as the first alternative of a multiple. (libcurl4-gnutls-dev | libcurl4-dev). This allows the autobuilders to find a package to build against, but allows you to change that package by having it already installed.
<mok0> persia: I agree
<mok0> persia: However, I think the license is not "written with care". It is full of contradictions
<persia> mok0: I think someone spent a lot of time on it, but I agree they didn't do a very good job.
<DktrKranz> james_w, thanks.
<Ubulette> apachelogger, any comment on prism ?
<mok0> persia: It's like, it's free, but not quite
<mok0> persia: are you fresh on giving the packaging a review?
<mok0> persia: I know one place policy is broken ;-P
<apachelogger> Ubulette: more like in 8 hours or something
<apachelogger> gotta go to bed soon
<mok0> apachelogger: you gonna sponsor theseus before you go?
<apachelogger> mok0: got an advocate already?
<mok0> apachelogger: norsetto
<mok0> apachelogger: but he needs to click the button again
<apachelogger> mok0: yeah, I can't upload until he advocated the latest version
<mok0> apachelogger: Yeah, I know
<persia> mok0: torque commented. Mostly upstream stuff, but a couple packaging notes.
<mok0> persia: thanks! I will take a look
<apachelogger> mok0: advocated theseus
<mok0> apachelogger: yay, thanks!
<norsetto_> mok0: so there ....
<mok0> norsetto_: hi!
<mok0> norsetto_: thanks for advocating!
<norsetto_> mok0: well, didn't quite understand what debian/try is ...
<mok0> norsetto_: arrgh, is that there?
<norsetto_> mok0: yes :-)
<mok0> norsetto_: It should be removed
<mok0> norsetto_: I was testing the 4 different methods of extracting the version no from changelog.
<norsetto_> mok0: apachelogger has not uploaded it yet?
<mok0> norsetto_: No
<mok0> norsetto_: we needed you advocate as well
<norsetto_> mok0: ok, never mind that, I'll remove it and upload. Do you want to keep the whole changelog?
<mok0> I think I shortened it
<mok0> norsetto_: It just explains the patches & stuff.
<norsetto_> mok0: you normally don't need that for a first issue. Any reasons for you to keep it?
<mok0> norsetto_: Other MOTUs told me to do it like that
<norsetto_> mok0: other MOTUs said: "This is a fairly long changelog for an intitial release "
<mok0> norsetto_: that is when I had an entry for every change for my ppa uploads
<norsetto_> mok0: yes, but I think it still applies
 * apachelogger looks
<norsetto_> mok0: so, as I said, any reasons for YOU to keep it that way?
<mok0> norsetto_: I've been told to document the dpatches that are applied
<apachelogger> norsetto_: I think it is perfectly fine
<apachelogger> nothing's better than good documentation
<slangasek> Kmos: how did ubuntu-archive get subscribed to bugs #173526, 173546, and 173534?  there's no record in the bug log of an ack by MOTU
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173526 in nip2 "Please sync nip2 7.12.5-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173526
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173546 in cfengine2 "Please sync cfengine2 2.2.2-1  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173546
<norsetto_> mok0, apachelogger: actually, I think you left out an important bit
<mok0> norsetto_: which is?
<Kmos> slangasek: sorry.. forget the -s :-( please remove them from U-A
<norsetto_> mok0, apachelogger: its true that you have your get-orig-source target in rules, but I would mention it that you need to version the upstream tarball
<mok0> norsetto_: yes, that's right
<norsetto_> ok, my cat just made about a hundred screenshots ....
<mok0> norsetto_: How should we do this? Should I make another upload? Then you guys have to advocate again
<norsetto_> mok0: so, I'll make these two changes and upload
<slangasek> Kmos: ok, done
<mok0> norsetto_: cool, thanks
<Kmos> slangasek: thanks
<norsetto_> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<norsetto_> mok0: check this out: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/46772/
<mok0> norsetto_: line 6 s/gas/has/ otherwise I'm happy!
<norsetto_> mok0: yes, must be your chemistry that do that :-)
<mok0> norsetto_: hehe
<tsmithe> persia, libfluidsynth-dev provides /usr/share/doc/libfluidsynth-dev/examples/example.sf2
<tsmithe> hmm persia's not here :p
<norsetto_> oh well, thats it then ... g'night folks
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-04
<dcordero> hi
<dcordero> i am trying to access to revu website but i think that the keyring are not sync yet
<dcordero> because i cant log int
<dcordero> log in
<Fujitsu> dcordero: You can only log in once you have uploaded a package.
<dcordero> yes sorry i dont understood that, but i have reread. Thanks
<crimsun> ok!  Who's ready for the great pulseaudio transition?!
<Fujitsu> crimsun: YAY! -hides-
<crimsun> I'll be recompiling all of libpulse0's rdeps and testing.
<crimsun> The great upheaval will begin in a few hours
<RAOF_> Yay!  I can test this evening :)
<pwnguin> so this is replacing alsa interfacing?
<Fujitsu> What benefits does PA actually give?
<crimsun> pwnguin: no
<pwnguin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PulseAudio
<crimsun> Fujitsu: working default audio device persistence across sessions (and reboots), live stream migration across devices, per-stream gain & volume control, ...
<pwnguin>  Per-application volume controls [1]
<pwnguin> #
<pwnguin> # Low-latency operation and support for latency measurement.
<RAOF> ...The ability for me to play music from my laptop on my stereo...
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Oh, I like that last one.
<pwnguin> and perhaps it will let me use java apps with sound in firefox and rhythbox simultaneously
<RAOF> pwnguin: Dear lord! Surely not?
<RAOF> pwnguin:
<RAOF> pwnguin: And maybe flash will be unbroken at some point to *not* try and open every single available hardware stream.
<lifeless> ha!
<RAOF> Thinking of which, crimsun, any libflashsupport action?
<pwnguin> note that i currently use alsa as the default gst sink, as i somehow developed an aversion to esd after living with many gentoo friends
<crimsun> RAOF: works fine; see the Whiteboard at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~crimsun/libflashsupport-pulse/devel
<Fujitsu> Isn't esd mostly gone now?
<crimsun> Fujitsu: FSVO mostly
<pwnguin> for small values of?
<crimsun> pwnguin: using an intelligent package manager that pulls Recommends for pulseaudio-esound-compat and gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio does the trick
<crimsun> pwnguin: 'some'
<crimsun> pwnguin: afterward, you'll only need to set the default audio sinks and sources via `gstreamer-properties`
<pwnguin> what's this supposed to mean about "intelligent package manager"
<crimsun> e.g., aptitude
<pwnguin> doesnt apt pull reccommends by default config now?
<crimsun> sure, apt-get is included
 * Fujitsu eyes the Zeroconf module suspiciously.
<pwnguin> then why was that directed at me?
<crimsun> I'm not limiting which one(s) should be used
 * RAOF presumes Fujitsu is being security-conscious.
<crimsun> pwnguin: because you noted your use of alsa as default sink/source
<pwnguin> and is this for gutsy or hardy?
<crimsun> hardy.  No devel for gutsy.
<pwnguin> donno if pulseaudio was in gutsy at all or what. fair enough then
<crimsun> it has been since feisty
<crimsun> and before that, as polypaudio
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Zeroconf for audio sounds evil.
 * TheMuso worked out why pulseaudio doesn't start on gutsy by default.
<TheMuso> Turns out that there is an incorrectly named package in the seeds.
<TheMuso> pulseaudio-esd-compat should be pulseaudio-esound-compat
<TheMuso> And its needed for pulseaudio to get started.
<RAOF> Fujitsu: Why, particularly?
<crimsun> TheMuso: hmm?
<crimsun> ah, n/m
<crimsun> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/ubuntu.hardy/desktop is self-explanatory.
<RAOF> Fujitsu: What it does at the moment is auto-detect my server's pulse sink connected to my stereo.  I suppose that if my server wasn't behind a firewall I'd have auth-anonymous turned off.
<Fujitsu> That does sound nice, but vaguely insecure.
<Fujitsu> Anyway, /me tries to get PA working here.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: as I said, ensure pulseaudio-esound-compat is installed.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I believe it to be.
<crimsun> and gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio.
<crimsun> the best part, though, is that Ubuntu carries a one-line diff to the Debian source =))
<TheMuso> crimsun: And what is that?
<Fujitsu> Ah, I can see Rhythmbox is connected now, but it has hung...
<crimsun> TheMuso: we enable per-user esd sockets
 * TheMuso wills Debian to update to 0.9.8
<TheMuso> ah
<crimsun> TheMuso: it was uploaded earlier.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Has that stabilised yet?
<TheMuso> RAOF: I don't know.
<RAOF> I was browsing the ML, and it seemed there were a bunch of bugs in that release, because the dev hadn't tested thourghly.
<crimsun> that's the point of shoving in 0.9.8 now ;)
<RAOF> Heh.
<RAOF> Yay!  Tao is in unstable now.
 * TheMuso starts searching for what starts pulseaudio.
<crimsun> TheMuso: System> Preferences> Sound> Enable software sound mixing
<RAOF> TheMuso: You've got a choice of gnome-something (if you enable ESD in S-P->Sound)
<RAOF> Or you can just fire up "pulseaudio".
<TheMuso> crimsun: Right, so gnome-session checks gconf, and loads pulse.
<crimsun> right, a system-wide daemon is not recommended
<TheMuso> Yep understandable.
<crimsun> TheMuso: thanks for noting the seed error
<TheMuso> crimsun: np
<dcordero> how can i check if i am on the keyring of revu?
<TheMuso> How does one change what card pulseaudio uses?
<crimsun> TheMuso: graphically, pavucontrol
<Fujitsu> Aw, can't I switch it to another server while it's playing?
<crimsun> TheMuso: otherwise, you should install pulseaudio-utils and use pacmd or pactl
<RAOF> Fujitsu: Yeah, that's a bit annoying.
<Fujitsu> It seems I even have to restart Rhythmbox to switch it to another server.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks.
<TheMuso> Nice to know that mpd will work with it!
<TheMuso> Means I could play music on one box, and send it to my notebook in another room. Sweet.
<crimsun> yep, it's listed in the rdeps :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<persia> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Fujitsu, persia
<persia> Is there a way to filter the queue view to only show sources?
<Fujitsu> persia: No.
<Fujitsu> That would be too simple.
<persia> Oh well.  I just like to check for archive candidates on REVU.  Maybe I'll dig into it later.
<Fujitsu> You could probably work out to how to scrape it, though (the batch GET argument is also useful)
<persia> Fujitsu: You imagine that I'm motivated enough to script it :)
<crimsun> TheMuso: are there any caveats relevant to hardy I should be aware of on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement ?
<crimsun> TheMuso: namely, is the twenty-minute wait recommendation still relevant?
<TheMuso> crimsun: Not that I am aware of. I pay attention to the ubuntu seeds to keep ubuntustudio's up to date.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Changing one package name shouldn't be a problem.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Unless you intend to do more.
<crimsun> TheMuso: nope, just that isolated change.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Well changing only that shouldn't be a problem, as I said.
<TheMuso> It would also require a new ubuntu-meta upload, but I guess that can wait.
<TheMuso> For the CD images to get the change.
<crimsun> TheMuso: ok, thanks.  (I don't normally muck w/ seeds :)
<TheMuso> crimsun: I've broken the ubuntustudio seeds a few times to have a fair idea of what I'm doing by now. :p
<TheMuso> The fun part is merging Ubuntu's changes.
<TheMuso> the ubuntu seed changes even.
<StevenK> But bzr helps with that, I'm guessing
<TheMuso> Yes it does.
<TheMuso> Its just that our desktop seed is organised totally different to the ubuntu desktop seed, something which I'm pondering chanig, for the ubuntustudio desktop seed that is.
<TheMuso> changing
<crimsun> I take I have to push this change to *.hardy
<TheMuso> bzr+ssh://username@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.hardy I think it is.
<StevenK> You shouldn't do that.
<StevenK> You should have it bound to that branch.
<crimsun> StevenK: sorry, I meant, "I should push this change by hand to gobuntu.hardy, edubuntu.hardy, ..."
<StevenK> ENOIDEA about that
<crimsun> man, that "Convert to a question" link in bug reports is /gold/
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Why?
<crimsun> because most of these audio driver bugs are not bugs
<Fujitsu> Ah.
 * Fujitsu stabs PPA for not looking in the primary archive for .orig.tar.gzs.
 * bddebian stabs PPA just for being...
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah that would be nice
<Fujitsu> It's targetted for 1.1.12, IIRC.
<Fujitsu> Although upgrading to Hardy is dangerous, so PPA's use is limited for the moment.
<Fujitsu> Er, s/upgrading/uploading/
<Fujitsu> Hah, mjg59's success is on /.
<bddebian> ?
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> Yea, great article except it has... like no content :P
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Hopefully, it links to somewhere that isn't Slashdot
<Fujitsu> It has some content. Some CoC-violating content, too.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: What?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I'd like to read the article, but I refuse to visit Slashdot
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Well, it's on Planet.
<bddebian> Anyone here pretty comfortable with Debian BTS?
 * Fujitsu knows enough to get around.
<bddebian> Do you know how to add tags?  I've tried control@bugs.d.o and using a pseudo header and neither worked
 * persia fails to understand the DCMA yet again.
<persia> bddebian: The Tags: header didn't work for you?
<Fujitsu> bddebian: tags XXXXXX + sometag
<Fujitsu> (to control@b.d.o)
<bddebian> I've tried that
<persia> bddebian: With the required terminating "kthnx bye"?
<bddebian> Are you serious?
<Fujitsu> `thanks' would do.
<Fujitsu> Although it isn't necessary if there is no trailing content, is it?
<persia> bddebian: It supports lots of things, but yes that too.  "quit", "stop", "thanks", and "thank you" are all more common.
<StevenK> "kthxbye" works too
<persia> Fujitsu: I thought it was to force the action, but I may be mistaken.
<StevenK> thanks/etc are to stop the bot from acting on your signature
 * persia points to StevenK's example as the correct syntax: "kthnx bye" is likely an error.
<StevenK> Or the rest of your mail
<bddebian> So To: control@bugs.debian.org  Subject: tags xxxxx + pending  with a body of thanks or use pseudo header?
<persia> bddebian: Body "tags xxxxxx + pending" double newline "kthxbye"
<Fujitsu> bddebian: No, commands go in the body.
<StevenK> No double newline
<persia> StevenK: No whitespace between commands & thanks?  It usually works for me that way.
<StevenK> persia: I don't do that and it works for me
<bddebian> Can't they just give the damn thing a web interface? :-)
<Fujitsu> I use a single newline.
<Fujitsu> bddebian: See SoC 2007.
<StevenK> To be honest, I just use 'bts'
 * persia suspects both work then.
<persia> bddebian: There's a CLI interface, which is likely easier than a web interface.
<StevenK> bddebian: Because using a mail client is so hard
<bddebian> StevenK: Yes, it is :)
<StevenK> bts tag XXXX + pending
<StevenK> Or use tagpending
<StevenK> (From devscripts)
<bddebian> Seems to have worked, not sure what I did before.  Thanks persia, Fujitsu, StevenK
<persia> bddebian: It's nice to have a subject too - otherwise subscribers get odd mail :)
<bddebian> Oh for cripes sake.. :-)
<nixternal> mmm crepes
<TheMuso> ugh
<ScottK> persia: FYI, non-commercial or you can't be paid for it is enough for multi-verse all by itself.
<pwnguin> Fujitsu: is THAT what the post was about?
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: I would have thought it was fairly obvious what it was about...
<pwnguin> i wasnt aware they were violating the GPL. for all i knew, the mpaa targeted mjg for doing something
<Fujitsu> Ah, you're right, that wasn't clear.
<pwnguin> somehow, a 200 pixel wide image of a swingset doesn't establish context for me =(
<Fujitsu> Where was that?
<pwnguin> hmm
<pwnguin> its not a swingset, but i have no clue what it IS
<Fujitsu> Where?
<pwnguin> theres a lawn
<pwnguin> on mjg's LJ
<Fujitsu> That's not 200 pixels wide, if it's the thing I'm looking at...
<pwnguin> 50, 200, its the same to me =/
<persia> ScottK: Could you point me at a reference for that in the future?
<ScottK> persia: My ref is I asked (I think it was pitti) and was told.  But let me whip up something for you.
<persia> ScottK: Cool.  Thanks.  I always thought that everything in universe had to be DFSG-free, but couldn't find a reference quickly before.
<ScottK> persia: I have not found the actual Ubuntu policy written down in an authoritative place, but my understanding of it is DFSG, except that GFDL with invariant sections is OK.
<mwolson> in other words, DFSG with sanity preserved :^)
<persia> I think we also allow CC-BY-SA > 2.0 rather than > 2.5
<persia> s/>/>=/
<ScottK> mwolson: or DFSG except some stuff that isn't.
 * persia would like an official statement of UFSG somewhere
<ScottK> Non-commercial restrictions clearly fail point 1 of the DFSG.
<ScottK> persia: I agree.  I think it's pretty clearly not publically documented.
<persia> I was hoping for something as a result of the pq submission, but I'm just as befuddled as before.
<ScottK> persia: My suggestion is mail the tech board and put it on the agenda for their next meeting.
<persia> ScottK: That's probably the right solution, but presumes I have a proposal ready :)
<ScottK> persia: Your proposal is you want the existing policy publically documented.
<ScottK> We'll just assume there is one.
<persia> ScottK: I don't have the impression that the existing policy is documented, publically or privately, and I don't believe that complaining about it not being public would lead to a solution.
<ScottK> persia: Then I'd just suggest that in the absence of formal policy we use DFSG.  After all, one of our goals is to keep our diff with Debian small.  If people want more than that, they should argue for it.
<StevenK> Ask the TB
<persia> ScottK: Maybe, but I think we have an informal policy of DFSG + GFDL + earlier CC-BY-SA + possibly other stuff.  It just needs someone to scrub the wiki, the LP license list, and www.ubuntu.com and write it up for presentation to TB.
<ScottK> persia: I don't think we need to solve it for Ubuntu.  I think we need to start the ball rolling.
<keescook> Fujitsu: our "very-low" has been renamed to "unimportant" to follow Debian, also, I've added "--universe" to the report-todo script (which makes the -v you added optional)
<StevenK> Or ask the TB to declare what licenses are okay based on what's in the archive?
 * persia doesn't see the point of raising issues formally in the absence of a proposed solution: people are busy with other thinks.
<ScottK> persia: I'd use the least energy method to get it started.
<ScottK> persia: To focus the attention of those people who should solve it.
 * bddebian is never busy with anything :)
<persia> StevenK: I don't like that solution, as there are new licenses that come in that need evaluation, and it would be preferable to have guidelines.
<Fujitsu> keescook: Ohhh, woops, I didn't meant to commit that -v, sorry.
<persia> bddebian: Do you need more tasks?
<Fujitsu> (but thanks for that option)
<keescook> Fujitsu: np :)
 * ScottK wonders what the MOTU equivalent of "Hardest working man in show business" would be?
<bddebian> persia: Do you mean more tasks for nothing? :-)
<Fujitsu> ScottK: bddebian.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Right, that's sort of what I was thinking, but I wanted a catchy tag phrase.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: bddebian is so godly he has it named after him.
<persia> What's wrong with the traditional https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod ?
<keescook> Fujitsu: and I've added a "universe" category to report-todo-numbers
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Silly me.  Of course.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right.
<Fujitsu> keescook: Danke.
<keescook> np; one step closer to graphs!  :)
<Fujitsu> keescook: I note that jdstrand manages to often remove tens of revisions with some uploads. Is that deliberate, accidental, or not happening at all, but LP being braindead?
<keescook> Fujitsu: it's LP being braindead.
<keescook> basically, whoever pushes last is who's "view" of the branchs sticks
<Fujitsu> How'd I guess...
<keescook> if you drill down, you'll discover the merged revisions.  it just makes the html report of things look odd
<Fujitsu> Your branches should probably be bound.
<Fujitsu> And the email reports.
<keescook> hm, maybe we should each have our own and push to a bound branch?  I don't like having remote bound branches because I can't commit without a network
<Fujitsu> keescook: You might want bzr commit --local
<keescook> ah!
<bddebian> You folks kill me.. :)
<Fujitsu> Centralised version control with offline committing, yay.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: And then push after you get network?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Or commit again?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Perform a normal commit, and it should be pushed properly.
<Fujitsu> You can't really push bound branches.
<ScottK> bddebian: Not yet we haven't.
 * StevenK nods
 * Fujitsu kicks PulseAudio for being... very broken.
<StevenK> bddebian: Just wait. We'll figure out a way.
<Fujitsu> I get a half-second snippet of audio every coupld of seconds on the remote speakers.
<bddebian> gah..:-)
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Like you need a reason for that.
<bddebian> So, what would be the best way in rules to do the following:  if exists config.status; then make disclean fi ?
<StevenK> test -f config.status && $(MAKE) distclean
<StevenK> With a tab at the front
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> argh
<bddebian> StevenK: Thanks.  how do I incorporate that with the [ ! -f Makefile ] || stuff?
<persia> bddebian: [ ! -f Makefile ] && [ -f config.status ] || $(MAKE) distclean, but you likely want to have your clean: rule depend on config.status
<StevenK> persia: Which then means the rules needs some way of remaking it
<bddebian> Sorry, not sure what you mean.  Won't configure recreate it?
<persia> StevenK: Yes, but I would imagine that to be the case if it was missing initially.
<persia> bddebian: The point being that you may need to create an explicit rule to generate it if it is missing, or clean will complain.
<persia> bddebian: quick & dirty is the line above
<bddebian> should that reall by && and || ?
<persia> bddebian: && means run the right command iff the left command returns true.  || means run the right command iff the left command returns false.  The total means run make diskclean uness (makefile is missing or config.status is present) due to the wonders of boolean algebra.
<persia> s/uness/unless/
<bddebian> Right, I need it to run if both are present :-)
<persia> bddebian: Ah.  You need ! -f config.status then, or to change the logic.
<bddebian> Right, thanks persia
<bddebian> And StevenK too :)
 * persia is reminded: did the community-snort-rules ever get in?
<Fujitsu> keescook: Any idea why Dapper/Edgy security uploads don't trigger changelog-closes-bugs?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I'd doubt the toolchain supports it.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Did we have it for Feisty? I forget.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Because security doesn't get processed by Soyuz?
<Fujitsu> The dak->LP stuff seems to be evil magic.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Yes it does.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I think so, but I'm not certain.
<StevenK> I suspect the evil magic manages to make changelog-closes-bugs not work
<RAOF> Dear tracker-status: please don't pass null pointers to strlen()
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Feisty and Gutsy uploads close bugs. It's all processed by Soyuz, but the dak on jackass does binaryful uploads.
 * persia thinks it's not evil magic, but just showing evidence of technology
<Fujitsu> persia: Pushing binaries from a dak instance to Soyuz sounds like evil magic to me.
<persia> Fujitsu: You can explain it, therefore it's not magic :)
<persia> Errr .. s/:)/:P/
 * StevenK kicks qdvdauthor
 * StevenK makes a png of the colour he wants so qdvdauthor can use it as a background.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Hahaha.
<Fujitsu> Sound efficient.
<StevenK> It's a QT program? What do you expect.
<bddebian> heh
 * Fujitsu sees ScottK and Hobbsee lurking in the shadows.
<StevenK> I can take ScottK
<imbrandon> ...
<StevenK> :-P
<Fujitsu> The two S[a-z]+Ks, yay.
 * persia offers odds
<StevenK> Fujitsu: And then is sometimes three.
<StevenK> s/\(the\)n/\1re/
 * StevenK confuses bddebian with his regexps
<ScottK> StevenK is taller.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Who is the third?
 * ScottK is older and trickier.
 * persia argues that UK != K, despite the regex
<Fujitsu> (nice regex)
<StevenK> StevenHarperUK
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Right.
<StevenK> persia: It matches
 * Fujitsu didn't see a /i at the end.
<persia> StevenK: /.*despite.*/ || echo so?
<Fujitsu> Ooh, getting nasty.
 * bddebian wanders about the room stunned
<Fujitsu> persia: I fail to see the purpose of those wildcards at either end.
<StevenK> Heh
<persia> Fujitsu: The're for extra stunning leverage
<StevenK> Haha
 * ScottK sets a small chair in front of bddebian.
<Fujitsu> persia: Good point.
<StevenK> But all you're stunning is bddebian, not me. :-P
 * ScottK hasn't seen pictures.  Is Fujitsu really stunning?
<persia> StevenK: Yes, but I'm wrong, as I thought you were right, and you weren't, so it doesn't matter.
 * bddebian starts to feel like he's hanging out in #debian-devel again..
<Fujitsu> Amaranth appears to join the regex war.
 * Fujitsu hangs bddebian from the ceiling.
<Amaranth> Stand back
 * Fujitsu dodges the incoming regexps.
 * ScottK gets the tar and feathers.
 * RAOF gets the tar and the gzip
<persia> tar cvf /dev/null *.regex
<ScottK> Oh wait...
<ScottK> This isn't actually debian-devel.
<ScottK> Never mind.
<Amaranth> Wait, forgot to escape a space
<Fujitsu> persia: Didn't you forget --remove-files?
<StevenK> ScottK: A fact for which I am grateful.
<StevenK> There's no bloody ari
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<persia> OK.  Back to standard u-m fare: It's REVU day: get reviewing!
 * ScottK hugs bddebian, if the ceiling isn't too high.
 * Fujitsu looks at #debian-devel and notes ari's randomness without having to scroll.
 * RAOF goes back to the other standard u-m fare: ripping on trackerd.
 * Fujitsu sticks ScottK there too.
<ScottK> Cool.
<bddebian> heh
 * ScottK loves high places.
 * ScottK prepares to spit.
<Fujitsu> Oh dear.
 * Fujitsu shrink-wraps ScottK.
<RAOF> Dear trackerd: Me sending you SIGTERM is my polite way of saying "stop using 100% cpu".  Your response should be to quit, not to amble blindly on.
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Another reason I got rid of it.
 * ScottK bites through the shrink-wrap and adds the bits to the lugy.
<Fujitsu> You must SIGKILL, or it just won't go.
<Fujitsu> Baaah.
<persia> RAOF: You don't really want to quit a system service with -15.  If you really wanted to quit, you'd give it a 9.
 * Fujitsu uses dangerous regexps on ScottK.
 * ScottK is suddenly sleepy.
 * Fujitsu ... has that effect on people.
 * bddebian gets mad and breaks out the VisualStudio .NET
 * ScottK can sleep pretty much anywhere.
 * Fujitsu dies.
<RAOF> On the other hand, sending SIGTERM *does* break tracker-status.
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Does it? Iiinteresting.
<RAOF> So trackerd is presumably *trying* to do something along the lines of shutting down :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Send it a SEGV
<imbrandon> send it an rm -rf
<RAOF> Why did we go with tracker rather than beagle again?
 * persia thinks it can find it's own SEGVs
<persia> RAOF: Better metadata standardisation documentation
<imbrandon> we'd be better with nothing
<RAOF> Beagle seems to have the advantage that it (a) indexes more stuff and (b) works reliably, in return for ~20MB more max memory usage.
<persia> imbrandon: Short-term: yes, Long-term: no.
<persia> RAOF: Yes, but the DB is harder for other apps to read.
<imbrandon> isnt trackerd dead upstream anyhow ?
 * persia notes that trackerd is not installed on any directly controlled systems.
<StevenK> Oh, fuck you qdvdauthor
<RAOF> Why are the apps trying to read the DB anyway?  Surely that's what the indexer is *for*.
<StevenK> Crashing piece of crap.
<imbrandon> RAOF: my thoughts exactly
 * StevenK turns his profanity filter back on
<persia> RAOF: The idea is to expose an API so that there can be a gradual transition to a hacked-in simulation of BFS.
<RAOF> persia: XESAM?
<persia> (Or was it BeFS)?
<persia> RAOF: That'd be even better.  Go complain to GNOME.
<RAOF> IE: something that tracker doesn't currently support, and beagle only just does.
<imbrandon> persia: and that couldent have been done with beagle?
<RAOF> imbrandon: People would presumably complain about mono cooties.
<imbrandon> persia: iirc tracker was a ubuntu decision, gnome still uses beagle
<persia> imbrandon: Maybe.  I didn't make the decision, but I thought I remembered reading that there was an issue with how beagle exports metadata.
<RAOF> GNOME doesn't use *anything* yet.
<RAOF> Although tracker was proposed (beagle devs don't think beagle's ready, apparently).
<imbrandon> trackr has been dead upstream a while iirc
<RAOF> imbrandon: I'm pretty sure you're thinking of another project.  The main tracker dev was highly active in the stabilisation of Tracker for Gutsy.
<persia> RAOF: Yes, that matches my understanding, although I don't usually see a long wait between "proposed for GNOME" and "default for Ubuntu" unless there are known issues.
<imbrandon> any program that %50 of the devs wont keep installed themselfs needs to be removed
<imbrandon> heh
<persia> imbrandon: Why?  It's just harder to support.  If you7re so unhappy, go fix strigi
<RAOF> Or install beagle, apparently.
<imbrandon> i use beagle/kbeagle
<pochu> imbrandon: tracker is not dead upstream.
 * persia decides pinot wins the nice webpage contest
<imbrandon> we should at very leaste put a "nice 200" wrapper on it
<persia> imbrandon: priorities don't have that resolution
<StevenK> Grrrrr
<RAOF> imbrandon: It already runs at nice 19
<StevenK> qdvdauthor and it's author need to *die*
<imbrandon> persia: it would be nice though
<RAOF> My problem with tracker isn't that it messes with other programs, rather that it never lets my CPU sleep, even on battery.
<TheMuso> I always remove tracker.
<TheMuso> As I generally know where to find what I'm looking for.
 * persia finds http://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?product=tracker&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED and convincing argument to wait
<persia> s/and/an/
<imbrandon> or if i dont, {m,s}locate works fine
<imbrandon> for me
<RAOF> Hm.  It seems I'm looking at bug #155244 - tracker can corrupt it's database when killed, and a corrupt database will make it spin it's wheels endlessly.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155244 in tracker "tracker does not stop" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155244
<imbrandon> well after 24hours 1/6 of my mirror is back in sync
<imbrandon> heh
<persia> Good morning dholbach
<dholbach> good morning
<imbrandon> moins dholbach , your here early
<dholbach> hey persia
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<dholbach> heya TheMuso
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<dholbach> imbrandon: indeed - I have an appointment later today, that's why I start early :-)
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu
<imbrandon> :)
<dholbach> how are you all doing?
<imbrandon> good good, just wakin up myself
<imbrandon> still sorting mail
<imbrandon> lol
<dholbach> also my girlfriend had to get up early too, so it was easier for me to get up at the same time
 * dholbach sips coffee
<dholbach> hehe
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Fujitsu> \sh_away: When you appear, can you please confirm whether or not CVE-2007-0459 affects Edgy? I've got it listed as affecting it here, but it wasn't covered by your upload a couple of weeks back
<ubotu> packet-tcp.c in the TCP dissector in Wireshark (formerly Ethereal) 0.99.2 through 0.99.4 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (application crash or hang) via fragmented HTTP packets. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-0459)
 * dholbach hugs Fujitsu and \sh_away for kicking arse in the security team!
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Hah. Only >1000 CVEs to triage.
<dholbach> it seems we should invite new contributors more to the security team, there seems a lot of ground to make :)
 * Fujitsu laments the lack of announcements to -changes, and sifts through +queue.
<persia> dholbach: Very much so, although I think it's a better target for mid-level contributors, as the process is messy (LP needs help), and the issues are tricky.
<dholbach> persia: right, agreed
<dholbach> maybe we can beef up some SecurityTeam wiki pages and pimp them a bit
 * persia wonders when Fujitsu is sending the ~motu-swat recruitment meail
<Fujitsu> The process is rather bad at the moment, but most people won't have to deal with ubuntu-cve once -changes happens again.
<dholbach> I'll prod Kees and Jamie about it
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> dholbach: I was thinking that.
<Fujitsu> persia: Need to discuss stuff with \sh after the last MOTU meeting.
<dholbach> I know that people are interested in that - if we manage to convey the message HOW useful this work is, I'm sure people will jump in and help out
<persia> I think we also need to demonstrate how to do it: I was hoping Â¥sh would be leading a session, but that seems to be indefinitely deferred.
<Fujitsu> It will be a lot easier once we get most of the initial backlog out of the way.
 * persia wants proper support for jp106 in at least one operating system!  All of Mac OS X, Windows, and Ubuntu don't do it right.
<dholbach> maybe it'd also help to have a #ubuntu-security or something
<dholbach> do we have it already?
 * dholbach checks
<dholbach> no, not really
<persia> dholbach: I don't think we need that until there's more traffic.  -security stuff is more than welcome in -devel & -motu for now.
<Fujitsu> We also need ubuntu-universe-security-announce@l.u.c soon.
<dholbach> persia: I made the experience that new people feel more comfortable to speak to peers about a specific topic in a separate channel
<persia> dholbach: Makes sense.  I just don't want to splinter too much, as otherwise we end up with lots of mostly empty channels.  Matter of balance, I guess.
<dholbach> right, I get your point - maybe it helps to call out a meeting and see how many people turn up (or something else to determine how high the demand is)
<persia> I thought you and Â¥sh were organising a meeting as a result of the last MOTU meeting.
<persia> If there's enough attendance in that meeting, and there is a desire for a channel, I agree it would make sense.
<dholbach> we didn't discuss it yet - I wanted to review it and help sending something out once \sh came up with an idea
<persia> (although I think Fujitsu is right, and that ubuntu-universe-security-announce@l.u.c is more important)
<dholbach> *nod*
 * persia goes back into lurk mode and lets dholbach get on with the trmendously good work on the very long task list
 * Fujitsu hopes to be able to have comprehensive UUSNs for Hardy.
<dholbach> persia: thanks a lot for the kind words :)
<superm1_> imbrandon, you still around?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> sup?
<superm1_> one of my team members got together a backport that he was looking for an ack on
<superm1_> bug 173684
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173684 in gutsy-backports "Please backport mythstream 0.18.1 from hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173684
 * imbrandon looks
<imbrandon> it can be backported alone right ?
<superm1_> yes
<superm1_> nothing has to come with it
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> ok can you / him attache a gutsy pbuilder or gutsy PPA build log link, and i'll ack
<StevenK> "Attach" has no e
<superm1_> i dont have a pbuilder, gpg key, or ssh key where i'm at, but i'll see if i can get him to.
<StevenK> imbrandon: I'll be the US at the end of Janurary, don't make me visit Kansas to teach you to spell.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> where at in the us?
<StevenK> imbrandon: West Coast
<superm1_> imbrandon, looks like he already went to bed.  i left him a message though, so hopefully he'll get around to that tomorrow or so.
<imbrandon> k , if i get time , i'll also do it
<imbrandon> before then
<Burgundavia> StevenK: where on the west coast?
<TheMuso> 0000/c
<TheMuso> 1ugh
 * StevenK takes a drink
<Fujitsu> 1ugh. Innovative.
 * persia wonders if packagers troll the open internet for packages to package or try to close needs-packaging bugs
<StevenK> s/the open internet/Freshmeat/
<persia> StevenK: I'm not sure everything is on freshmeat, but I keep finding packages on REVU that attempt to close new bugs that are dupes of old bugs :(
<imbrandon> heh
<highvoltage> hey \sh
<\sh> hey highvoltage
<\sh> highvoltage, btw...shermann and \sh are the same person ,-)
<pgquiles> is it possible to use distcc instead of gcc with pbuilder or dpkg-buildpackage?
<\sh> pgquiles, afaik there are some hooks for it and some settings...I think they were mentioned on the pbuilder homepage
 * soren glances at pgquiles and then at google :)
<pgquiles> soren: I've googled and tried what I found but it did not work :-/
<soren> You could have sort of pointed that out, then.
<\sh> pgquiles, first hit on goole
<soren> ..and perhaps explained the problems you were seeing?
<\sh> http://edseek.com/~jasonb/articles/pbuilder_backports/advpbuilder.html
<Amaranth> arg, wtf
<Amaranth> i can't link compiz bugs to upstream anymore, it wants me to file the bug against compiz-settings in launchpad
 * Amaranth stabs
<highvoltage> \sh: yes, I gathered :)
<\sh> hmmm..is there any app for linux which can read visios .vsd files and create a diagram out of it?
<persia> \sh: No.
<\sh> damn...it's the only application I miss...that's why I still need a stupid vmware with windows :(
<DaveMorris> Hi, I'm looking for a 2nd review of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest please
 * persia encourages someone to review something (cpptest perhaps)
<txwikinger2> persia: thanks for your comments
<persia> txwikinger2: You're very welcome.
<txwikinger2> persia: I already fixed the thing with the arch-independent files last night
<txwikinger2> When do I have to have the whole package done n order to get it into hardy?
<persia> txwikinger2: If you can finish by 14th December it's best.  14th February is the cutoff for new packages to be accepted, so anything uploaded after 1st February or so is at risk.
<txwikinger2> k.. I should make that
<txwikinger2> I am waiting for the main developer for the copyright files, but I might have to insert that myself
<persia> txwikinger2: The archive admins usually reject packages with copyright changes in diff.gz: you really need upstream to fix it.
<txwikinger2> persia: I don't really change the copyright
<txwikinger2> I only add the files that are required for debian policy
<txwikinger2> The copyright is very clearly stated in the readme files
<persia> txwikinger2: Which files do you mean?
<txwikinger2> COPYRIGHT
<persia> txwikinger2: That needs to be from upstream.
<txwikinger2> well somehow it is
<txwikinger2> the package is in cpan
<txwikinger2> and licence equal to perl
<txwikinger2> licenced
<TheMuso> geser: I've dumped all binaries that still use libglib1.2, and am doing a test run with the script on that list to see what eventuates.
<persia> It needs to be obviously and clearly from upstream, or the archive-admins won't include it.
<geser> TheMuso: thanks
 * persia celebrates TheMuso
<dcordero> hi
<geser> TheMuso: no need to look again at gtk-engines-mono which FTBFS due to bug #173631
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173631 in pkg-create-dbgsym "dh_strip fails if package uses debian/tmp for installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173631
<dcordero> i am trying to use revu system, i have just uploaded a packages but i cant found it on the website, and i cant log in into website with my email
<persia> dcordero: When you upload it takes 10 minutes or so to appear on the web interface.
<dcordero> persia, i uploaded it, yesterday
<persia> dcordero: Hmm...  Sounds like you need a REVU admin to investigate.
 * imbrandon perks up
<imbrandon> packagename ?
<Chipzz> hi. what would be the best way to get a more recent version of a certain package in hardy? I have already filed a bug-report
<dcordero> ninvaders
<imbrandon> k one sec
<geser> dcordero: if I see it right you join u-u-contribtors 9 hours ago, my guess it that your key isn't synced yet
<TheMuso> geser: Ok.
<imbrandon> dcordero: looks like it was rejected, are you on the LP ubuntu-universe-contributors team ?
<dcordero> keyring problem? but dput let me upload it
<dcordero> imbrandon, yep i am in this team on lauchpad
<imbrandon> dcordero: ok did you ask an admin to sync the keyring ?>
<imbrandon> dcordero: yes it will let you upload then it will reject it if you are not on the keyring
<imbrandon> i will sync it now
<persia> Chipzz: If you would be willing to do the packaging, and add a patch to the bug, the sponsors team will review, and likely upload.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/PackageUpdate
<dcordero> i see, thanks
<imbrandon> ok key syncing , i'll announce when it completes ( this can take some minutes )
<imbrandon> then you can re-upload ( after removing the .upload file you have localy )
<DaveMorris> persia: those man pages (for libserial) are generated by doxygen and I can't find the problem.   Would it be cheating too much to drop the manpages and just provide the html docs?
<persia> DaveMorris: Yes.  Try asking around to see if anyone else has any ideas for a solution.  If you can't find one, report that in a REVU comment for the next upload.  It's only a very minor issue.
<txwikinger2> persia: well, I could adopt the original package, add something to it, and add the proper files to the then my original :)
<TheMuso> All going well so far, a couple of packages have needed a maintainer field change, but its running on auto atm.
<StevenK> TheMuso: What are you rebuilding?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Processing packages for the libglib1.2 -> libglib1.2ldbl transition
<StevenK> Ahhh
<TheMuso> Nothing uploaded yet
<StevenK> Do you need me to take a bunch?
<TheMuso> StevenK: No, using a tweaked script that pitti originally used to update maintainer fields.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks for the offer though.
<StevenK> When I discover Aerie Peak, I'll be digging through NBS myself
<StevenK> Tanaris is too hard to solo at 47, which is disturbing enough.
<imbrandon> StevenK: wake? initial thoughts on my new ( in-progrss ) blog theme
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/new/
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: ^
<StevenK> imbrandon: Too much like XP for me
<\sh> imbrandon, that's so SuSE ,-)
<imbrandon> heh, supose to be like the midwest/KC
<imbrandon> :)
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com
<imbrandon> heh got compared to two diffrent OS's :)
<imbrandon> ( and a movie )
<effie_jayx> hello all...
<effie_jayx> when you have a package that comes from debian... it is not in ubuntu. and you want to package it in ubuntu, the changelog has to be clean new... or must it contain things from the old debian package?
<imbrandon> effie_jayx: it should deviate from debian as little as possible, if any
<imbrandon> most are just synced
<effie_jayx> this is a package that I have tested in ubuntu and works without a glitch
<imbrandon> what package ?
<effie_jayx> imbrandon,  but my question is...
<effie_jayx> it's a game
<imbrandon> whats its name
<effie_jayx> called secret maryo chronicles
<effie_jayx> it isn't in ubuntu yet
<imbrandon> its probably already in ubuntu if its in debian
<imbrandon> if not it will be soon
<effie_jayx> a friend of mine mantains it ubuntu
<effie_jayx> in debian sorry
<effie_jayx> I wanted to package it to put it in my ppa
<imbrandon> ok your still not telling me the name
<effie_jayx> imbrandon,  smc-1.1
<effie_jayx> smc I guess
<imbrandon> sure its in gutsy and hardy
<imbrandon> !info smc gutsy
<ubotu> smc: a Jump and Run game like Super Mario World written in C++. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.99.6-2ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 523 kB, installed size 1404 kB
<effie_jayx> imbrandon,  oh...
<effie_jayx> my bad
<imbrandon> if you mean you want to merge it, sure its on the merges list
<effie_jayx> he told me it wasn't
<imbrandon> always best to check
<effie_jayx> imbrandon,  yes... my bad
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> anyhow it needs a merge, you are welcome to do that
<effie_jayx> sure
<adrian15> Hello. I am trying to boot an ubuntu cd with grub. Is there any boot option that am I missing? Is there any boot option that it is not written in isolinux.cfg? It is very strange that there is not any root= option. Thank you for your comments.
<\sh> adrian15, hmmm? most of the stuff is running in a ramdisk...so I think that everything is inside the initramfs which gives the right root dir for booting the CD (I don't know if you speak about the alternate or the live cd)
<\sh> adrian15, the other question is why do you want to boot the cd with grub?
<adrian15> \sh: I speak about the live cd. I want to boot the cd with grub because I develop super grub disk. The same problem happens when I try to boot it from a modified isolinux. I get this error: http://adrian15.raulete.net/ficheros/u710_chainloaded_isolinux.png                      I ask myself if the problem can be the way that I build the cdrom with mkisofs.                     Do you have the mkisofs or genisofs for builiding an ubuntu cdrom at hand ?
<\sh> adrian15, I don't have any clue about the bootcd...the mkiso call for the alternate cd is on the wiki...(Customizing<something>)
<adrian15> \sh: I am interested in the live cd one.
<adrian15> \sh: ok, I got the mkisofs line. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization#head-ab8f641f4bbc6cbafbe1699b580c06668bf7a484 I will test it. Thank you.
<\sh> adrian15, np...
 * \sh really doesn't have a clue about the livecd.../me doesn't use it
<\sh> therefore...wireshark is testbuilding with all CVE fixes...now dealing with wesnoth
<Hobbsee> \sh: deal with debian for it?
<\sh> Hobbsee, I'm sending patches to stable security when they don't have them already :)
<Hobbsee> ah righht
<\sh> Hobbsee, or better to say, complete debian debdiffs :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<\sh> oh I hate it
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> ok..wesnoth is secure in no time ;)
<\sh> hmm...does anyone know if -backports are getting as well security updates?
<persia> \sh: To upload a security fix to backports, request a refreshed backport of the backported package to the target.  So, if a gutsy package was backported to feisty, and it was fixed in gutsy-security, request a backport from gutsy-security to feisty.  This is handled by the backports team directly.
<\sh> persia, but not automatically...that's bad
<persia> \sh: It requires a rebuild against a different target, and the backports team isn't yet beig enough to have grown backports-security :(  It's best-effort, and better than nothing.
<persia> s/ei/i/
<Fujitsu> \sh: I always check rmadison for -backports and open a backports task if it is vulnerable.
 * persia thinks that is an eminently sensible workflow
<Fujitsu> .... odd quite message.
<Fujitsu> s/e//
<imbrandon> yea
 * emgent heya
<TheMuso> Yay. Libglib transition script done. In the morning, I'll run a double check on all altered packages to be sure they do indeed need changing, then its mass upload time.
<somerville32> \o/
<StevenK> TheMuso: Mass uploads are fun
<Amaranth> glib transition?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Oh I'm sure. But I think just to be even safer, I'll run a mass rebuild overnight to be sure that they all build. Any that FTBFS will get further scrutiny tomorrow.
<StevenK> Amaranth: libglib1.2 -> libglib1.2ldbl funness
<TheMuso> Amaranth: libglib1.2 -> libglib1.2ldbl
<Amaranth> wtf
<persia> TheMuso: including Maintainer analysis & XbuildY vs. XubuntuY?
<TheMuso> persia: Well the script failed to alter and prepare packages that needed maintainer address updates anyway, which I've done by hand.
<TheMuso> So all packages that need maintainer changes have had that done now.
<TheMuso> and there weren't many of them, which is a good thing.
<TheMuso> Maybe 5-10 I had to do manually.
<persia> TheMuso: Ah.  I thought you might have the ultimate script.  It's just the best yet :)
<TheMuso> persia: I thought of adjusting to do that at the same time, but thought they would have all been taken care of in pitti's run.
<TheMuso> Which they werent.
<TheMuso> weren't
<persia> TheMuso: We had several hundred last I looked.  I keep meaning to fix them, but somehow never do.
<TheMuso> persia: Tonight I have processed a total of 221 source packages.
<persia> TheMuso: That puts you in first place for a while :)
<TheMuso> I'm going to double check that they all use libglib1.2, and run a rebuild on them tonight, but I think most of the work is done.
<TheMuso> And most hated for clogging up buildds. :p
<StevenK> Now I need to find some mass rebuilds
<persia> TheMuso: Nobody doing NBS every gets in trouble for clogging the buildds.
<somerville32> You guys should give me a project to do that gets me 221 uploads :P
<TheMuso> persia: Its not nbs as such as far as I understand it.
<TheMuso> Its more unmet deps.
<somerville32> define: NBS
<TheMuso> You try and install any binary from these packages that depends on libglib1.2 and it won't install.
<TheMuso> not built from source.
<StevenK> somerville32: Find your own :-P
<persia> somerville32: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php can give you 402, if you want.
 * StevenK grabs the gsl rebuilds
<somerville32> persia, Would you sponsor a package upload if all I did was add a watch file?
<persia> somerville32: Yes, if that was all the package needed.  For everything on that list, I'd want it lintian/linda clean, newest upstream, etc.
<somerville32> persia, Will all of them be able to have a watch file?
 * TheMuso wonders whether his box can get 221 source packages built in 7-8 hours.
<somerville32> TheMuso, I know mine can't :P I have a 333mhz
<TheMuso> ...and thinks he might employ his powerpc to help.
<persia> somerville32: No idea, but the watch wizard generated watch files for a number of them automatically, so it'll be a bit before you run out.
<somerville32> persia, Awesome. Thanks! :)
<persia> somerville32: Some are main: I'd recommend doing universe first.
<persia> somerville32: Let me know anytime you're looking for hundreds of things to do :)
<somerville32> persia, Any reason why?
<somerville32> persia, :D
<persia> Because it's usually easier to get universe stuff sponsored.
<\sh> WTH is no one fixing the bugs down to the last supported releases of ubuntu?
<Amaranth> \sh: We don't even get a chance to fix bugs in the upcoming release
<\sh> wesnoth was fixed for gutsy and feisty, but not for edgy or dapper (not checked if it's vulnerable, but I think so)
 * Amaranth should do some of those watch things
<\sh> Amaranth, security fixes
<\sh> Amaranth, hmmm? we prepare a LTS and we can't fix bugs?
<persia> \sh: We try, but you're better than most of us.  Please have pity on us.
<\sh> persia, na...
<\sh> persia, pochu fixed wesnoth for gutsy and feisty...but not for edgy (and I wonder if he did for dapper)
<persia> \sh: This happens.  More eyes & more hands is good.
 * \sh needs to write this stupid document...
 * persia seeks a contributor wishing to work on package updates: any volunteers?
 * Amaranth runs
<persia> Amaranth: You sure you don't want to try a couple?
<somerville32> persia, I'd work on anything with you - awesome opportunity to learn/re-enforce :)
<mruiz> hi all
<persia> somerville32: You've already got 402 tasks.  This is for someone else :)
 * somerville32 grins.
<TheMuso> Ok, I'm outa here, now that my rebuild script is running on two boxes.
<Amaranth> persia: You mean updating stuff to the latest versions?
<persia> Amaranth: Yep.  There's 18 packages that we know need it that aren't maintained in Debian.  The list is available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.php
<persia> Night TheMuso
<TheMuso> persia: Night.
<Amaranth> That site is weird
<persia> Amaranth: How so?
<Amaranth> According to http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_upstream.php only 93 packages have a watch file
<persia> Amaranth: It's only tracking packages not in Debian.
<Amaranth> ah
<\sh> pochu, ping
<pochu> \sh: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<\sh> *headbang*
<somerville32> \sh: Calm down buddy :P
<persia> Essentially, it's not worth Debian variance just to add a watch file, but it is worth maintaining the packages not in Debian as well as we can.
<somerville32> Quick, name for a computer :P
<pochu> \sh: I've already done wesnoth for Feisty, Hardy and Gutsy ;-)
<persia> pochu: What about Dapper & Edgy?
<Amaranth> 	libgtksourceviewmm1
<Amaranth> 	0.2.0 	0.3.1
<Amaranth> that says we have a version newer than upstream
<pochu> persia: They have older versions, so I wnat to see what Debian does first.
<\sh> pochu, dapper and edgy are still vulnerable
<persia> Amaranth: That would be a watch file bug :)
<\sh> pochu, the code in edgy is not even changed for the ".." bug
<Amaranth> ok, i guess i'll tackle that one
<\sh> pochu, 6201 is just ready for upload btw
<Amaranth> and hey, i can upload it too :P
<persia> pochu: For security, it's never best to wait for Debian.  For other things, yes.
<Amaranth> some fool made me a motu ;)
<pochu> persia: hmm, right
<persia> Amaranth: heh.
<pochu> \sh: wanna do them? ;)
<somerville32> Amaranth, you're a motu?
<Amaranth> Yeah
<\sh> pochu, forget about it ,  I'm fixing this for edgy and dapper with my debdiffs fopr CVE-2007-6201
<ubotu> Unspecified vulnerability in Wesnoth 1.2.x before 1.2.8, and 1.3.x before 1.3.12, allows attackers to cause a denial of service (hang) via a "faulty add-on" and possibly execute other commands via unknown vectors related to the turn_cmd option. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-6201)
<Amaranth> Although the only things I enjoy working on are in main... :P
<pochu> \sh, persia: I did the old one btw, but Dapper and Edgy weren't uploaded, requesting some testing which I couldn't do.
<persia> pochu: Ah.  Thanks for the explanation.  Perfectly understood.  Is the CVE linked to the bug in LP?
<\sh> pochu, please for the next time, go from dapper to gutsy upwards...not downwards...dapper is lts and needs more love...
<\sh> persia, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wesnoth/+bug/172783
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172783 in wesnoth "wesnoth exploit allows others to view the content of files on a remote computer" [High,Fix committed]
<pochu> \sh, persia: bug 158414
<Amaranth> How many people are playing wesnoth on dapper?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158414 in wesnoth "denial of service in wesnoth client and server prior 1.2.7 release" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158414
 * persia wonders why Kees declined the tasks
<\sh> of the server stuff...
<pochu> persia, \sh: 1.2.8 is in Hardy now too, so I'm going to request some new backports.
<Amaranth> ah, server bit too
 * persia grumbles about duplicate bugs and encourages \sh to write up a manifesto for universe security already.
<Amaranth> I'm just glad no one has found any security bugs in my stuff :)
<frafu> dholbach: thanks for your review of mousetweaks; unfortunately there is a point in your comments about which the developer and I are not really sure. I talked about it in a comment that follows your comments. Have you already seen it?
<pochu> \sh: If you are going to do Dapper and Edgy for the ../ CVE, please include my changes from #158414 so we fix both CVEs. If you aren't going to them, let me know and I'll do it.
<dholbach> frafu: no, thanks for prodding me - I'll take a look
 * pochu goes to have lunch
<\sh> pochu, no problem...we just need to test them :)
<frafu> dholbach: thanks
 * persia merged the bugs: please adjust any external reporting tools
<\sh> real life work...bbl...
<dholbach> frafu: commented
<persia> frafu: In general, I'd recommend asking about comments in the channel generally.  Sometimes people aren't available, and others may also be able to answer (for next time).
<frafu> dholbach:I will have a lok; thanks again
<frafu> dholbach: ok; next time I will ask directly here; I assumed that revu would forward my comment in revu directly to you, which seems not to be the case.
<dholbach> frafu: even if it hadn't been me, you can just ask your questions in here :)
<dholbach> good work on the package!
<somerville32> persia, when doing these watch updates, should I make them conform to new python policy?
<persia> somerville32: For those, please hit them as hard as you would for a REVU submission (although no REVU is required).  They are Ubuntu-maintained packages, and so there's nobody else maintaining them.  Get them as good as you can.
<persia> (Oh, but respect Maintainer:  If it's not MOTU, ping the address before updating)
<somerville32> Lukas Sabota <punkrockguy318@comcast.net>
<frafu> dholbach: if I get it right: 1. the best way to make it publicly available for gutsy is with a ppa? (I already have set one up) 2. If gnome will be providing mousetweaks as the a11y tab of the mouse capplet, how will the gnome maintainer for ubuntu know that it is the same as mousetweaks and set the replace flag? 3. I suppose that your comment about /usr/etc is  also valid for all its subdirectories. Could you confirm?
<persia> somerville32: For addresses like that, send an email, just in case.  It's likely it's yours, but it's nice to check.
<dholbach> frafu: 2. best to talk to seb128 and lool in #ubuntu-desktop about it, they'll set that flag, no problem
<dholbach> frafu: 3. yes
<somerville32> RAOF, Can you add a deb-source line for hardy?
<frafu> dholbach: thanks
<dholbach> frafu: 1. you can have in PPA for gutsy, no problem - I'd still push it to hardy to let people play with it and test it
<dholbach> frafu: ROCK ON
<somerville32> Is pycentral or pysupport you need the XSBC-Python fields?
<persia> Anyone like writing manpages?
<somerville32> *the one you need
<somerville32> *XB-Python-Version
<persia> somerville32: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<frafu> dholbach:  ok, I will target it to hardy and thanks again :-).
<dholbach> great
<txwikinger2> Hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi txwikinger2
<pochu> persia: why did you duplicate them? They are different CVEs, with different importance...
<persia> pochu: The CVE lists on the side matched.  Checking again, and likely unduping
<dsop> dholbach: would you mind taking another look at gcutils, please.
<persia> pochu: Both are linked to 2007-3917 & 2007-5742.  If that's not correct, it should be updated to be correct.
<pochu> persia: It's not. I'll fix it.
<persia> pochu: OK.  Thanks.  Please also undup :)
<somerville32> When I try to use sbuild, I get mailto not set
<pochu> persia: sure :)
<persia> somerville32: Thanks.
<persia> Err..  pochu: Thanks
<persia> somerville32: I recommend configuring sbuild to stick the logs in ~/logs rather than mailing them.
<StevenK> It seems sbuild always mails them
<somerville32> persia, I'm on someone elses machine via ssh
<somerville32> persia, is it possible for me to configure that?
 * persia doesn't get mail, but seems to have an odd sbuild configuration in other ways as well
<persia> somerville32: That's a harder question :)  I don't know.
<StevenK> I don't get mail either, but my mail setup is a remote IMAP server
 * persia also doesn't get a growing /var/spool/mail/persia :)
<StevenK> ls: /var/mail/steven: No such file or directory
<somerville32> hmm :/
<StevenK> Neither do I :-)
<somerville32> I guess I'll just go back to bed for now then :P
<persia> StevenK: That's impressive.  Mine is filled with base64-encoded changelogs.
<StevenK> I thought you just said you don't get a growing /var/spool/mail/persia? :-)
<persia> StevenK: Not from sbuild.
<StevenK> Ahh
 * persia likes changelogs, and reads them all, every word
<StevenK> I get logs dumped into ~/ubuntu/logs, symlinked into the current directory which suits me fine
<somerville32> Mine is empty too
<mok0> persia: did you see my comment @ the torque license?
<pochu> \sh: forget me! bug 173881 isn't a duplicate of mine :-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173881 in wesnoth "the option "turn_cmd" can stall a computer or maybe start another application" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173881
<persia> mok0: Nope.  You didn't email me or poke me :)  Got a URL?
<mok0> You had left last night
 * persia is intending to leave in 2 minutes :)
<mok0> persia: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=torque scroll to the botto
<mok0> ach, it's my cherry g84-4100 keyboard...
<mok0> still haven't quite gotten used to it
<persia> mok0: Ah.  Cool.  It's clauses 1 & 2 that cause issues.  Thanks for pointing that out.  Might be suitable for universe, and definitely can get patched.
<mok0> persia: I think so too
<persia> mok0: The "No patching" issue is part of clause 2.
<persia> mok0: Now, all my slight comments about upstream stuff become actionable tasks.  Have fun :)
<mok0> persia: ?
<mok0> "there can be no charge..." not change
 * persia commits to sleeping more
<mok0> I guess persia needs a reboot...
<pochu> \sh: backports requested for Edgy and Feisty, which had 1.2.3 and 1.2.5 in -backports.
<\sh> pochu, wesnoth?
<\sh> server moving sucks
<pochu> \sh: wesnoth, yes.
<\sh> pochu, please wait with the backports until 2007-6201 is uploaded
<\sh> (which I'm working on now)
<pochu> \sh: why?
<\sh> pochu, it needs to go to security...so we have at least a complete version
<pochu> \sh: but since backports will have 1.2.8, isn't it ok to backport it asap? So people with -backports enabled get the fixes too.
<pochu> We can upload to security anytime, can't we?
<\sh> pochu, I thought gutsy can go to feisty via backports, and feisty go to edgy via backports...AFAIK it's not possible to use gutsies version and inject it to edgy via backports...correct me if I'm wrong
<pochu> \sh: I'm no expert with -backports stuff, but I thought they could be backported from the latest release :-) ScottK <--- can you enlight us?
<\sh> pochu, the problems are coming with the build-deps...if there were a librename or whatever in gutsy, and the build-dep or bin-dep of this is not in edgy, it's stucked
<pochu> \sh: but that makes sense, since edgy has feisty's version, and feisty has lower than gutsy...
<\sh> s/were/was/
<pochu> Well the dependencies haven't changed since I look into wesnoth
<\sh> pochu, ok...so finally for edgy/dapper we have 3 CVEs still hanging...CVE-2007-3917 CVE-2007-5742 and CVE-2007-6201
<ubotu> The multiplayer engine in Wesnoth 1.2.x before 1.2.7 and 1.3.x before 1.3.9 allows remote servers to cause a denial of service (crash) via a long message with multibyte characters that can produce an invalid UTF-8 string after it is truncated, which triggers an uncaught exception, involving the truncate_message function in server/server.cpp.  NOTE: this issue affects both clients and servers. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-3917
<ubotu> Directory traversal vulnerability in the WML engine preprocessor for Wesnoth 1.2.x before 1.2.8, and 1.3.x before 1.3.12, allows remote attackers to read arbitrary files via ".." sequences in unknown vectors. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-5742)
<ubotu> Unspecified vulnerability in Wesnoth 1.2.x before 1.2.8, and 1.3.x before 1.3.12, allows attackers to cause a denial of service (hang) via a "faulty add-on" and possibly execute other commands via unknown vectors related to the turn_cmd option. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-6201)
<pochu> \sh: for the first one there are patches in the bug report.
<\sh> pochu, yepp...saw them...the other ones are low hanging fruit...got them already
<pochu> Cool :-)
<\sh> pochu, but if you want, you could find out what fix is there for  CVE-2007-6208 fixed in claws-mail-tools 3.1.0-2
<ubotu> sylprint.pl in claws mail tools (claws-mail-tools) allows local users to overwrite arbitrary files via a symlink attack on the sylprint.[USER].[PID] temporary file. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-6208)
<\sh> pochu, 3.1.0-2 <- is the fixed version in debian unstable
<DaveMorris> I'm looking for someone else to revu my package - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<RainCT> Can someone please merge ~rainct/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev into ~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk?
<somerville32> RainCT, register a merge proposal
<RainCT> somerville32: is there now an option to let Launchpad merge it automatically or what?
<somerville32> RainCT, umm, not really but it lets you register merge proposals :P
<RainCT> somerville32: yes, but my previous experience with this is that it just gets ignored :P
<somerville32> RainCT, file a bug then and link the branch
<RainCT> bug 173931
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173931 in ubuntu-dev-tools "Please merge ~rainct/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev revison 43 into ~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173931
<bddebian> Heya gang
<faheem__> Hi. I have a package that needs postgres 8.1 or later on Debian. However, Ubuntu doesn't seem to want to install 8.1. I want to use the same packaging (rules/control files) on both Debian and Ubuntu. Any suggestions?
<faheem__> Well, it complains about 8.1, anyway.
<azeem> faheem__: maybe state which version of Ubuntu you're talking about
<faheem__> azeem: Debian etch and Ubuntu feisty. Sorry.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<pochu> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser, pochu
<geser> faheem__: postgresql-8.1 is included in the universe repository since feisty. Do you have universe enabled for your tests?
<faheem__> geser: Someone else actually tested it, and he said that it made loud complaints about being obsolete, and didn't install properly. Do you think he did something wrong? I can check...
<faheem__> He's got universe installed, deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu feisty universe
<faheem__> as well as multiverse, whatever that is.
<faheem__> Is 8.1 supposed to install and configure out of the box on Ubuntu? He is getting errors...
<StevenK> faheem__: postgresql-8.1 installs fine for me on Gutsy amd64, and works out of the box.
<\sh> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Stephan, what's shakin? :)
<\sh> bddebian, in need of a new job :)
<bddebian> Aren't we all? :-)
<faheem__> StevenK: Yes, was doing this inside a vserver guest, so the problem was vserver related issues. Please comment on whether the debconf obsolete warning for 8.1 can be ignored. For my information, is there any way of having the same control file install 8.1 on Debian, 8.2 on Ubuntu?
<\sh> bddebian, well, our company is closing :) so, the pinky and da brain plan wasn't successful (hehe), everybody needs to leave here ;)
<bddebian> Oh :-(
<\sh> 154 employees ... 140 are already gone...the other 14 are cleaning up the datacenter and moving the servers
<geser> faheem__: Depending on postgresql-8.2 | postgresql-8.1 should work as the first isn't in Debian etch but is in Ubuntu feisty
<faheem__> geser: Ok, thanks for the suggestion.
<faheem__> geser: Yes, sounds reasonable.
<bdgraue> jdong: i asked yesterday if you can take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bug/173532 , did you found some time for this?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173532 in feisty-backports "please backport psi 0.11" [Undecided,New]
<faheem__> geser: So, there is nothing like an ubuntu tag, then? Like [ubuntu] or something.
<geser> faheem__: no
<faheem__> geser: Ok. Thanks.
<jdong> bdgraue: is the new library dependency mandatory?
<jdong> bdgraue: oh wait it's a new library, isn't it...
<jdong> bdgraue: ok, yes, it's a new library. Please have someon test build qca2 from gutsy->feisty and if that works then this backport is good to go
<bdgraue> jdong: there is a log about backporting qca2 too
<jdong> bdgraue: do you recall if that backport was successful?
<bdgraue> jdong: https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bug/173719
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173719 in feisty-backports "please backport qca2" [Undecided,New]
<jdong> bdgraue: ok, can you instead testbuild the backport of the *gutsy* version to feisty?
<bdgraue> jdong: to built psi failed cause
<bdgraue> Considering build-dep debhelper (>> 5.0.51)
<bdgraue>       Tried versions: 5.0.42ubuntu1
<jdong> bdgraue: oh that sucks...
<jdong>   * Set build-dependency on debhelper to >= 5.0.51 (for dh_icons)
<jdong> yeah this is going to be an involved source change backport.
<jdong> Next step if you would like to continue is to prepare a debdiff with the changes to control and rules necessary to lower that debhelper  dependency.
<keescook> \sh: (and persia, who is offline) I declined the wesnoth tasks because I thought they didn't apply (no mention of more fixes coming, etc).  I can go re-add them, that's no problem.
<bdgraue> jdong: sry, i have no idea how to do that
<\sh> keescook, I'm working on edgy and dapper fixes for those...so on the latest sec fix (which wasn't applied anyhow) (bug #173881) you'll find the other two cves as well (utf-8, ".." foo)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173881 in wesnoth "the option "turn_cmd" can stall a computer or maybe start another application" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173881
<keescook> \sh: okay, thanks
<\sh> keescook, CVE-2007-6211 is just reaching you soon, too ;)
<ubotu> Send Nasty ICMP Garbage (sing) on Debian GNU/Linux allows local users to append to arbitrary files and gain privileges via the -L (output log file) option. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-6211)
<\sh> ok /me needs to go home...cu later
<jeromeg> hello
<jeromeg> i need some help for bug 173347
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173347 in claws-mail-extra-plugins "[ftbfs]Fail to build due to missing build-dep" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173347
<jeromeg> a motu says : Since libcurl4-dev is a virtual package, mind replacing it with libcurl4-gnutls-dev | libcurl-dev ?
<jeromeg> should i put both packages, or just one ?
<geser> jeromeg: both
<jeromeg> geser: ok thank you very much
<zorglu_> superm1: around ?
<zorglu_> superm1: i would like to get vlc 0.8.6d on feisty. what would be your suggestion on how i could do it ?
<zorglu_> [19:15] [Whois] superm1 has been idle for 20 hours, 46 minutes and 28 seconds. <- mouaoau i should have looked at that before :)
<jdong> zorglu_: using a pbuilder or prevu to backport it might work.
<jdong> I haven't tried it yet
<zorglu_> jdong: ok but i would have to learn/setup those tools before :)
<zorglu_> jdong: so compiling vlc from source would be much faster for me :)
<jdong> zorglu_: prevu is dead easy to set up, pbuilder is only slighly more difficult
<jdong> zorglu_: and yeah you can manually compile it from source too if you feel comfortable doing it
<jeromeg> jdong, zorglu_ : i'm trying it in a few seconds
<jdong> jeromeg: thanks :)
<zorglu_> jeromeg: tell us the result :)
<jeromeg> zorglu_: no i'll try and won't tell you :)
<zorglu_> :)
<jeromeg> waou 18 mb of sources :)
<jeromeg> it might take a while :)
<zorglu_> im with you :)
<zorglu_> ok going for a walk to clear my foggy brain. be back in 20min :)
<jeromeg> jdong, zorglu_ : fails to build, it needs libvcdinfo-dev (>= 0.7.23-4ubuntu1)
<jeromeg> and feisty only has 0.7.23-3
<jeromeg> got to go
<jeromeg> see you all
 * somerville32 waves.
<jeromeg> bye somerville32
<jeromeg> exit
<jdong> meh I doubt it *needs* it, some debian/control lovin should work :)
<zorglu_> no cool :)
<propp1> oy
<nxvl_work> is there any way for spanish speakers to report bugs on LP?
<Burgundavia> nxvl_work: a translated interface of LP?
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> it is closed source
<nxvl_work> there should be one
<Burgundavia> yes, I agree
<Burgundavia> but first we need it to be open source
<Burgundavia> and then you need to impose a string freeze on a webapp
<nxvl_work> but we can make a translated interface, just make it communicate with LP, no editing LP
<Burgundavia> yes, that is possible
<Burgundavia> although I am not certain about the communication aspects vis a vis LP
<Kmos> nxvl_work: check efax-gtk, there is a new version on debian, you've done the last upload
<nxvl_work> we can make it by mail
<nxvl_work> Kmos: i have merge it already
<nxvl_work> bug #173947
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173947 in efax-gtk "Merge efax-gtk 3.0.16-1 from debian " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173947
<nxvl_work> but thnx :D
<geser> nxvl_work: what's the "Reverse incorrect debian maintainer change to debian/menu to the ubuntu one from version 3.0.14-1ubuntu1" change?
<geser> I can't seem to find the change in the debdiff
<nxvl_work> looking for it
<geser> and you probably want to subscribe u-u-s if you want it uploaded
<Kmos> nxvl_work: ah nice =)
<nxvl_work> geser: it was a hierarchy problem
<nxvl_work> geser: you are right, they correct it already on debian, that must be out of the changelog
<slangasek> nxvl_work: "get someone to translate for them out-of-band and submit the bug in English"?  Even if there were a way to submit bugs in Spanish, what would the developers do with it?
<nxvl_work> slangasek: someone can translate it
<slangasek> nxvl_work: so why is it important to do that in LP instead of outside it?
<nxvl_work> slangasek: or there can be a $LANG reporter where $LANG translation teams triage the bugs and translate them
<pkern> Could anyone please take care of SRU'ing flashplugin-nonfree?  The md5sum mismatches due to a newer version I was told.
<DaveMorri1> Hi, I'm still looking for a 2nd MOTU to advocate my package - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<huats> greeting everyone
<RainCT> how can I check in a makefile if a directory exists?
<nxvl_work> !?
<nxvl_work> a makefile is a sh script
<pkern> Nah, it isn't.
<pkern> It's obscure how to call the shell.
<huats> RainCT: hey
<huats> I have a question for you : we've been approuved as a member the same day... have you contact anyone to be added to the member list ?
<RainCT> huats: hi :)
<RainCT> huats: I asked dholbach but he said they would add all new members after the CC
<huats> RainCT: I am trying to add my self to the planet...
<mok0> I got a weird FTB error from LP, arch lpia:
<mok0> dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<huats> and I am not able... apparently I am not seen as a member....
<RainCT> huats: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers  what does the "your involvement" section say?
<huats> not a member of the teaÃ¹....
<RainCT> huats: try pinging a member of the CC then..
<pochu> I've subscribed u-u-s to bug 96758, but irssi is in main and not in universe. Can a motu unsubscribe it? Thanks in advance :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 96758 in irssi ""/ping" with no arguments CTCP PINGs the channel" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/96758
<RainCT> anyone knows how to check for the directory? :/
<nxvl_work> huats: you are a MOTU already?
<huats> nxvl_work: No
<huats> nxvl_work: just an ubuntu member....
<nxvl_work> ah ok
<DaveMorri1> RainCT: You wanna check if a dir exists in your rules file?
<RainCT> DaveMorri1: exactly
<huats> nxvl_work: MOTU might be for year 2010 :)
<DaveMorri1> hang on a mo
<RainCT> ok, thanks
<nxvl_work> huats: why?
<huats> RainCT: Yeah... I will... thanks...
<nxvl_work> huats: i plan to become a MOTU by the end of hardy circle
<huats> nxvl_work: That's when I'll deserve it:)
<huats> nxvl_work: great...
<nxvl_work> heh
<RainCT> huats: lol. I see you're optimistic :)
<Riddell> cyberix: ping
<huats> RainCT: always :)
<DaveMorri1> RainCT:  if [ -d Builds ] ; then rm -rf Builds ; fi ;
<RainCT> DaveMorri1: That's what I've tried but it doesn't work... shouldn't make any difference if it isn't in a single line, or?
<geser> ajmitch: Hi, what's the status on bug #104616?
<DaveMorri1> to break over a multiple lines you'll need to use \
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 104616 in gnue-appserver "[apport] gnue-appserver crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/104616
<ajmitch> no status
<RainCT> DaveMorri1: ah ok. thanks!
<geser> ajmitch: so no new upload to Debian as stated in the last comment?
<ajmitch> nope
<geser> ok, thanks
<ajmitch> don't worry, this place has just killed off any motivation for development I once had
<Riddell> cyberix: never mind, others have asked what I was going to ask, pq accepted
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=857 (let me know if you have questions)
<DaveMorri1> thanks, and there was me thinking I was done with the package :)
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: yes, pretty good work
<DaveMorri1> thanks, I'll look at those problems now
<mok0> Riddell: Nothing new about package eigen, yet...
<huats> norsetto: my dear friend, how are you ?
<Riddell> mok0: how do you mean?
<norsetto> huats: salut! how is it in Toulouse!?
<huats> norsetto: everything is fine
<huats> I am more than waiting to start my new job...
<huats> but otherwise it is ok
<huats> :)
<mok0> Riddell: I attempted to merge it, but there were some problems you that poked debian maintainer about, I believe
<norsetto> huats: yes, I can imagine, the last weeks are the worse
<huats> exactly
<huats> :)
<DaveMorri1> norsetto: should the test example makefile be patched to work as well?
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: I didn't check it, will not work as is?
<DaveMorri1> nope, mytest_LDADD            = ../src/libcpptest.la
<mok0> DaveMorri1: Use $top_builddir
<DaveMorri1> we also delete the static lib
<mok0> DaveMorri1: that's evil
<DaveMorri1> thats what I've been told should be done with new packages
<mok0> Why would you want to prevent people from building static executables?
<Riddell> mok0: I've actually synced 1.0.5-1
<Riddell> mok0: if you like you could post a bug to debian suggesting they change the -dev package to libdevel
<mok0> Riddell: Ah, that's cool. I don't have to worry about it then.
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: where is that? The only thing wrong I see is the include of ccptest.h so far (no need to patch that)
<mok0> Riddell: OK
<DaveMorri1> norsetto: the Makefile
<mok0> Riddell: I've never done a Debian bug report before. Should be fun ;-)
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: and what do we do with that? we just need the source as an example of coding
<Riddell> mok0: follow the template at http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting "An Example Bug Report"
<mok0> Riddell: Do I file agains the source package?
<Riddell> mok0: yes
<DaveMorri1> yeah, I wasn't sure if it should be patched so it builds easily as well or not?
<mok0> Riddell: OK, thanks, will get on it right away
<Riddell> thanks
<mok0> Riddell: Its already reported, #447618
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: so far I can only see that path wrong, perhaps you may want to test it yourself before adding it?
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: which is also a good way to check that the library is doing its job by the way, I didn't test it yet
<DaveMorri1> whats the policy on scripts been installed to /usr/bin btw (different package)
<rick_h_> anyone got a sec to help me figure out some debuild errors? http://paste.avwsystems.com/paste/72
<rick_h_> the upstream changed the build system to autotools which is causing some changes that debuild doesn't like
<rick_h_> and I'
<rick_h_> and I'm new to packaging and trying to figure out how to handle this
<tonyyarusso> Is there a guide somewhere for how to port Firefox extensions to Epiphany?
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: what do you mean?
<DaveMorri1> this other package I'm working on creates a python script it wants to install to /usr/bin  It's a substandard version of pkg-config IMO so I'm happy for it to be left out, however some legcay builds of people who build from source will prob moan if it's not installed
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: I think a python script should be ok, but you should check with some python guru (ie. scottk)
<DaveMorri1> now to solve the problem that it uses the prefix passed in via the configure script :~
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: I see that you don't use -D_REENTRANT by the way
<DaveMorri1> what does that do?
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: from the debian policy "make the library compatible with LinuxThreads"
<DaveMorri1> in the pkg-config file or when the libs is built?
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: when the lib is built
<DaveMorri1> ok, I'll look at getting that added
<cyberix> My package seems to be in "Upload and build queue" done-section. What will happen next?
<tsmithe> apachelogger_, mscore has been updated if you're interested (and i do hope you are!): http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mscore
<cyberix> Why is my package still tagged "source"?
<DaveMorri1>  norsetto is there an easy way to pass -D_REENTRANT in that you know of?
<azeem> norsetto: why is -D_REENTRANT bad?
<norsetto> with CFLAGS I would say
<azeem> eh, nm
<row_> What is the best method for creating a python package into a .deb?
<row_> to be exact IMDbPY?
<row_> presume dh_make etc?
<ScottK> DaveMorri1: If it's a script and not a module, then that's the right place for it.
<DaveMorri1> thanks
<DaveMorri1> norsetto: if your still around I've upload a new package which should fix all of those issues - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<ScottK> \sh_away and pochu: Fix it in Hardy and then backport the hardy version as far as it will go.  You can also backport earlier -security fixes (e.g. feisty-security to edgy) if needed.  Finally, if that doesn't work, a direct security fix to the *-backports is possible via a source backport (we'd need a core dev to upload).
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: where is test installed?
<DaveMorri1> /usr/share/libcpptest-doc/examples
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: ok, then you need to patch that in README too
<DaveMorri1> doh, I forgot about that
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: there is an easier way to exclude docs from installing
<DaveMorri1> DEB_DH_INSTALLDOCS_ARGS :=  however it didn't work when I tried it
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: isn't better to have test/mytest.cpp in .examples and remove all the rm in rules?
<DaveMorri1> -XFILENAME
<DaveMorri1> norsetto: yep
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: yes, make it specific to your -doc package
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: no wait, it should work like that
<DaveMorri1> but I want it apllied across all the packages
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: yes, it should work, is there any error in your log file?
<DaveMorri1> it works for me to remove NEWS/README in another p[ackage but not AUTHORS/BUGS in this package
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: strange, we need to look at that, anyhow, can you try to use libcpptest-doc.install to install makefile.test?
<DaveMorri1> rather than copying it in?
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: yes, so you can get rid of that target in rules
<DaveMorri1> rule removed, and the deb_installdocs is added back in (although those files are there now)
<DaveMorri1> any other problems with it I missed?
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: let me check
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: have you uploaded it yet?
<DaveMorri1> not yet I was refering to the previous upload
<DaveMorri1> it'll be there for the next refresh
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: ok, gotta go anyway, I'll check it first thing tomorrow morning
<DaveMorri1> yep, those docs you suggested get removed are still in there though since that exclude thing isn't working
<DaveMorri1> I've prob done it slightly wrong
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: ok, keep working on that, use "export DH_VERBOSE=1" if you need more messages from debhelper
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: to tell you the truth that one of the reasons I don't like cdbs, the time you save from making it with debhelper its lost manyfold if there is something to be adjusted manually ....
 * DaveMorri1 likes to mix them, but I keep getting told off
<norsetto> anyhow, g'night everybody
<DaveMorri1> night, thanks for the help
<pochu> ScottK: Hardy has the 3 fixes already (1.2.8 upstream hehe). I've requested a backport for edgy and another for feisty, mind having a look?
<pochu> I'm off to bed, good night folks
<ScottK> How about Gutsy pochu?
<RainCT> good night :)
<tonyyarusso> This is fun: 19243 anthony   20   0  299m 243m  20m R 93.2 25.7   4:53.36 nautilus
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-05
<Flare183> Is there anyone that can mentor me?
 * Flare183 hopes that someon could mentor him
<Flare183> anyone?
<Flare183> !motuy
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about motuy - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Flare183> !motu
<ubotu> motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<Hobbsee> most people arent' around at this time of day
<Hobbsee> and i think there's a place to register for it
<Hobbsee> !mentoring
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about mentoring - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Flare183> wow
<slangasek> Flare183: if you're looking for help with a specific question, please ask it.  If you're looking for a general commitment from a "mentor", like Hobbsee says there's some sign-up list for such things (though I'm afraid I don't know where)
<nixternal> Flare183: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MOTU/Mentoring
<Flare183> Found it thanks
<nixternal> groovy
<nixternal> also hit up the list
 * Hobbsee would suggest that one reads the FAQ bfeore asking such questions, which would lead you to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ#head-46634de24118604a33c6eccd2960a598d906daf9
<Flare183> ok thanks guys soon i will be join you all
<Flare183> joining
<ScottK> Flare183: Please keep in mind that the formal mentoring process is completely optional.  You are free to dive in and ask questions as needed here.
<zul> evening
<Flare183> I know i just trying to give that "big" contribution that I have to give
<rpereira> Hey everybody.
<imbrandon> moins all, Hobbsee, slangasek, ScottK, zul, nixternal
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon
<ScottK> Heya imbrandon.
<StevenK> Morning imbrandon
<imbrandon> nixternal: was just talking to Whiprush about penguincon(sp?) i have the time off confirmed from $work, woot
<imbrandon> heya StevenK
<Gunner_Sr_> hola! imbrandon
<slangasek> moinmoin and ikiwiki
<imbrandon> ello Gunner_Sr_
<imbrandon> slangasek: heh
<imbrandon> slangasek / StevenK : btw over last week i roped a "full time" DD sponsor, woot, not only does this mean i dont have to periodicly bug random DD's for uplaods but $sometime it will make a NM application easier
<StevenK> Poor bastard.
<StevenK> Oh, I mean, that's good.
<imbrandon> hehe
<StevenK> :-P
<imbrandon> i'm thinking just after Hardy realease i'll apply for NM, as long as i keep on the same path etc
<ScottK> imbrandon: Applying doesn't take long (if you've got your key signed) and there's lots of waiting in the process.  Why not get started.
<imbrandon> ScottK: i have a few more cleanups on my packages i'd liek to complete by then , and plus i do have signatures but no DD signatuers and likely wont untill April 08
<Gunner_Sr_> ScottK: what is NM?
<imbrandon> New Maintainer ( e.g. apply to be a DD )
<imbrandon> Gunner_Sr_: ^^
<Gunner_Sr_> thx
<imbrandon> ScottK: plus untill now i've always had $random DD do uploads for me, i dont think one single DD has made 2 uploads for me, so getting a advocate is a bit hard that way
<imbrandon> thast really the main thing
<ScottK> Yeah.  That can make it tough.
<imbrandon> i COULD drive to St.L in one afternoon and get a sig if i needed
<imbrandon> DD Sig
<ScottK> There you go.
<ScottK> That or go to the next UDS since you're in no hurry.
<imbrandon> i'll see quite a few people from UDS in April
<imbrandon> :)
<Gunner_Sr_> imbrandon: Is this in relation to getting your key verified?
<imbrandon> Gunner_Sr_: kinda, thats one of the things, yes
<imbrandon> for Debian, not Ubuntu, ubutnu uses the WoT , debian requires the DD WoT
<Gunner_Sr_> imbrandon: I just did that through biglumber and met a person in my local area.
<imbrandon> Gunner_Sr_: its not a matter of that, i have plenty of normal sigs, i need a DD sig :)
 * ajmitch wonders where the next UDS will be
<Gunner_Sr_> imbrandon: Ah, got it.
 * StevenK does too
 * imbrandon bets it wont be in the US
<StevenK> I wished Launchpad checked a key was trusted before it let you import it.
<mok0> UDS?
<StevenK> mok0: Ubuntu Development Summit
<imbrandon> Ubuntu Developers Summit
<mok0> thx
<imbrandon> StevenK: yea, that would be nice
<Gunner_Sr_> imbrandon: The hardest thing I am starting to realize is that there is not alot of loco activity in the Midwest of US.
<imbrandon> Gunner_Sr_: nope, not much
<ScottK> Gunner_Sr_: Where are you located?
<imbrandon> Gunner_Sr_: we are so spread out , out here
<imbrandon> Gunner_Sr_: where are you ?
<Gunner_Sr_> Seattle, WA
<imbrandon> ahh
 * ScottK has never heard that described as part of the midwest before.
<imbrandon> actualy there is alot of LUG activity out here but not alot of debian or ubuntu specific
 * Gunner_Sr_ agrees
<imbrandon> ScottK: heh me either
 * Gunner_Sr_ lol
<imbrandon> ScottK: see the new "midwest" theme i'm working on for my blog ? still alot of bugs in it thus not live, but have a peek http://69.247.213.131/
 * ScottK looks.
<imbrandon> ( its running a DB copy of the data )
<ScottK> Definitely looks midwest, although more Iowa than KS/MO.
<imbrandon> heh well at one point in history all the beef in the US came through KC :)
 * Gunner_Sr_ cow tippin, heheh
<ScottK> imbrandon: I'm old enough to remember the smell.
<StevenK> Yeah, but that isn't now.
<imbrandon> :)
<Gunner_Sr_> imbrandon: Did you get you new computer?
<imbrandon> StevenK: yea but our stockyards are still an attraction
<StevenK> If all the beef came from the US, then all of the politi... eer, manure came from there too
<StevenK> s/the US/KC/
<imbrandon> Gunner_Sr_: no, not yet, only ~50% of the way there
<Gunner_Sr_> imbrandon: okey dokey.
<ScottK> StevenK: When I was growing up, we certainly had our share of it.  You could smell the stockyards in most of the city and it's a BIG city.
<imbrandon> heh yea
<StevenK> Um, ew
<StevenK> imbrandon: Here's a quarter, buy yourself a real computer :-P
<imbrandon> now they are just a tourist attration and mall-ish area
 * StevenK actually has a few US quarters on his table
<imbrandon> heh
 * imbrandon directs StevenK to his holiday computer fund page
<Gunner_Sr_> imbrandon: I have a few P3 servers lying around too...
<StevenK> imbrandon: I saw it. Personally, I buy my own hardware rather than have the Internet buy it for me.
<tonyyarusso> I wouldn't mind having some P3 boxes around if I could figure out how to make them into a cluster
<Gunner_Sr_> tonyyarusso: You can, just use LIMULUS..
<Gunner_Sr_> tonyyarusso: It is called a personal cluster.
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: If you want a farm of builders, you can use distcc
<imbrandon> StevenK: i do both :)
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: interesting
<imbrandon> i figured , why not try :)
<Gunner_Sr_> StevenK: I use it from my notebook to my quad server. :-)
<tonyyarusso> Gunner_Sr_: apt-cache doesn't show that - link?
<zul> *sigh* nother interview tomorrow
<imbrandon> zul: any offers yet?
<Gunner_Sr_> tonyyarusso: goto http://limulus.basement-supercomputing.com
<zul> imbrandon: nope not yet...its coming soon i can feel it in my bones
<imbrandon> zul: best-o-luck :)
<tonyyarusso> Gunner_Sr_: heh, "check back soon"..
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: web server is down :(
<StevenK> zul: "Yes, we have an opening for you. Please don't slam it on the way out."
<imbrandon>  Updating - check back soon - 11/1/2007
<zul> StevenK: heh
<mok0> Supercomputing. eh?
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: I'm curious, tell us about LIMULUS
 * Gunner_Sr_ Interesting, last time I spoke to Doug he was suppose to have it up and running.
<imbrandon> zul: i started with www.vml.com last month, lovin is so far, i even get to use Ubuntu on my workstation :)
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: trying to build/buy/use of the shelf personal hardware to build clusters.
<zul> imbrandon: cool its nice when they let you do that
<StevenK> Neat. The website is flash
<imbrandon> yea not all of it, infact not even important parts
<imbrandon> but with customers like MS and Adidas they want "flashy" stuff
<StevenK> Well, your company has the right number of letters for Adidas' usual customers
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: supposedly to price to performance of less than $100 per GFLOPS.
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: Wow
<imbrandon> StevenK: ??
<StevenK> imbrandon: Never mind
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> http://www.vml.com/client.aspx
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: What's the software used?
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: Microwulf is another project at http://www.calvin.edu/~adams/research/microwulf/
<imbrandon> StevenK: even bluetooth.com ( *rolls eyes* ) heh
<StevenK> imbrandon: What are you doing there, though?
<imbrandon> Unix/Linux sysadmin
<mok0> I am packaging the torque batch system for Ubuntu
<StevenK> imbrandon: For how many machines?
<imbrandon> personaly about 300, but we have a few thousand
<StevenK> Neat
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_:  Microwulf, cool!
<imbrandon> about 100 Solaris 9 boxen, 2 or 3 AIX boxen and a TON of CentOS/Ubuntu mix
<imbrandon> StevenK: ^
<nixternal> imbrandon: I am going to be in Michigan that week already
<StevenK> Eww, AIX
<zul> imbrandon: then you can dump the redhat knock off and use gentoo ;)
<imbrandon> yea it runs some funky fax to creditcard gateway stuff thats getting phased out
<zul> oh wait..
 * StevenK gags zul and throws him in the closet
<zul> heh
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: I am looking for other people who are interested in ubuntu cluster computing
<mok0> Actually, that's an invitation for everyone
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: I don't do much of it anymore. It is cheaper to build scale units in DCs now.
<mok0> DCs?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> mok0: i'd be intrested but i need to get 2.6 kernel running on xbox first
<mok0> imbrandon: hehe
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: Data Center's
 * ScottK ordered an OLPC in the 2 for 1 deal.  Anyone know if Ubuntu will run on that?
<mok0> Acronym overload
 * StevenK hands G703, BGP and OSPF to mok0 
<imbrandon> G703 ?
 * imbrandon knows the others
<mok0> Kernel panic...
<StevenK> imbrandon: Line protocol for fiber
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> ScottK: no idea, i know there is a spec about it though
<imbrandon> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-on-olpc
 * StevenK dealt with G703 at $old_work
<imbrandon> ScottK: mako or ogra would probably the ones to ask
<ScottK> mok0: One Laptop Per Child.
<mok0> ScottK: What are the specs?
<ScottK> mok0: I'm not exactly sure.  The deal here is that you can buy two for $400 and you get one and one goes to a needy child in a poor nation, so I figured I'd give it a shot for curiosity's sake.
<ScottK> I'm really curious about how a laptop designed for children will work.
<mok0> ScottK: very good
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: worked with pbuilder at all?
<imbrandon> ScottK: i got to play with one, they are really easy to use
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: Sure
<imbrandon> not powrfull but easy
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: okay, working on bug #145074
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145074 in xgalaga "xgalaga-hyperspace crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145074
<ScottK> imbrandon: Good to hear.
<imbrandon> ScottK: have you tried the sugar interface ?
 * ScottK doesn't know what that is.
 * ScottK doesn't have the OLPC yet either.
<imbrandon> suger is the UI for olpc
<imbrandon> sugar*
<ScottK> Right.
<minghua> You can try sugar in a VM, I heard.
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: I am VC++ developer, have done very little on Linux with deb, etc. use to use RPM and Unix
<imbrandon> one sec, you acn run it in a xnest on ubuntu
<imbrandon> minghua: its not a vm, its in a nested X instance
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: So can I help?
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: just built the chroot cleanroom and went to the directory. Can I work on the tar in that directory, or should I copy to a working folder and work on it form there?
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: You can unpack the base.tgz file, make changes, and re-tar it
<imbrandon> ScottK / minghua : https://edge.launchpad.net/~jani/+archive  , install sugar and sugar-activties from that and you can run it "in a window" on Gutsy
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: all I have is the orig.tar.gz and the diff.gz?
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: I usually copy orig.tar.gz, diff.gz and .dsc file to /tmp
<mok0> you run the pbuilder on the .dsc file
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: perfect, that is what I was looking for..
<mok0> ie sudo pbuilder --build blabla.dsc
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: and you do that in /tmp right?
<mok0> Yes,
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: cool thanks.
<mok0> pbuilder doesn't work well from an NFS mounted directory, which is what I have
<minghua> Gunner_Sr_, mok0:  You can do that whereever you want, the source packages are copied over.
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: Agree, I was seem to have problems with NFS.
<mok0> minghua: no it doesn't work well on an NFS mounted dir
<mok0> minghua: it has to be a local disk in my experience
<jonnymind> Hello
<minghua> mok0: You mean I can't do "pbuild --build /home/minghua/foo_1-1.dsc" when my home is on NFS?
<mok0> minghua: yes
<minghua> mok0: Or do you mean I can't do that when /var/cache/pbuilder is on NFS?
<minghua> Hmm.
<jonnymind> I got a couple of questions about contributing packages, may I ask here?
<bddebian> Certainly
<mok0> minghua: I don't know about /var/cache
<mok0> !ask > jonnymind
<minghua> mok0: Pbuilder uses /var/cache/pbuilder/build/ as the chroot dir.
<mok0> yes, but it needs to have root access to your NFS mounted dir, which is not normally permitted
<mok0> jonnymind: don't ask to ask, just ask
<jonnymind> I've been developing an open source project, namely ap programming language; It's being integrated in kde4, and I thought that I may present it to distros too.
<mwolson> is it just me, or does quilt try to make a hardlink to somewhere in /tmp/ every time a pull/push is done?
<jonnymind> (it's a courtesy form. In my country, it's like saying "hi there"!)
<mok0> jonnymind: just irc etiquette :-)
<jonnymind> So, I signed for a motu account.
<jonnymind> sorry,
<jonnymind> I mean ... uhm... for a revu account.
<mok0> jonnymind: good
<jonnymind> Still need  to get accustomed this acronym.
<minghua> mok0: Okay.  I don't have NFS here, so I wouldn't know.
<jonnymind> I have been shipping some "hand made" debs for sometime now, and I have polished them with the help of ubuntu-it-dev ppl.
<mok0> minghua: It threw me off when first playing with pbuilder
<jonnymind> Mu question is: I see now in revu page that I have to upload the source tarball.
<mok0> jonnymind: ok
<jonnymind> this is fine to me; the problem is that I have a quite complex build environment (modeled after KDE's),
<mok0> jonnymind: have you got your gpg public key in revu?
<jonnymind> so the tar wouldn't just copille.
<jonnymind> *compile
<jonnymind> yes I have.
<mok0> jonnymind: revu doesn't do compilation
<jonnymind> Fine.
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: did pbuilder in /tmp and no source??
<mok0> jonnymind: what's your package called?
<jonnymind> "Falcon"
<jonnymind> or if you wish, falconpl for programming language.
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: explain, pls
<jonnymind> ATM, I get the binaries, mangle (i.e. strip) them, copy them and pack them with a set of bash scripts. One of the outputs are debs files (so lib, bins and devs).
<jonnymind> How is exactly a "source package" done?
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: sure, copied orig.tar.gz, diff.gz, and the .dsc to /tmp and pbuilder --build on the .dsc file
<jonnymind> *some of the outputs are...
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: did it run to completion?
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: look in /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<mok0> jonnymind: it's a long story. You have to check the documentation
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: okay, looking
<jonnymind> I see. Just one question then, before I skim in the wrong direction:
<minghua> jonnymind: Your way of building the .deb packages doesn't sound compatible to the way REVU requires.
<minghua> jonnymind: You need to learn the proper way to build a package.
<jonnymind> minghua: I am here to learn.
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: the files are in there, but I want to debug the source and any diffs?
<jonnymind> How's done then?
<mok0> jonnymind: look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<minghua> !packagingguide | jonnymind
<ubotu> jonnymind: packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<jonnymind> perfect.
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: You mean the diff.gz?
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: yes
<mok0> lsdiff -z blabla.diff.gz
<jonnymind> Of course...
<jonnymind> I would also accept any help directly on the code. There isn't any inherent reason for me to be the pack debs in one way or another, or to be the one to pack them.
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: let me try this again. I have the source package, I want to open it up, execute and debug it, in anjuta and see what is going on. I have the stacktrace so I have a pretty good idea, just need to confirm and then fix it.
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: you need to run dpkg-source -X blabla.dsc
<RAOF> somerville32: Oh, that "add deb-source line for hardy" was with reference to to my amd64 box?, presumably?  Ok.
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: That will unpack the tar and apply the patches
<minghua> Gunner_Sr_: You don't "execute" a source package.  There are only source code, not executables, in there.
<Gunner_Sr_> minghua: correct, just compile/debug :-)
<jonnymind> Another thing: I signed in the launchpad longtime ago, nearly by mistake. Is there any way to reset the password?
<tonyyarusso> Are there any other FOSS forum platforms besides phpBB?
<imbrandon> jonnymind: dunno you can ask them in #launchpad
<jonnymind> thank you very much,
<StevenK> Er, there's a link for "Forgotten your password" when you go to sign in
<jonnymind> Oh. I didn't notice as I was logged in with the cookie of my browser. Thanks.
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: so it is all right to do dpkg-source in the /var/cache/pbuilder/result directory or should I have done it in /tmp?
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: Where you have the "source package", in your case /tmp
<mok0> The "source package" consists of 3 files, *.orig.tar.gz, *.diff.gz and *.dsc
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: Weird when you come from the RPM world....
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: tell me about it. I want to make sure that I don't do any bad habits. :-)
<mok0> hehe
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: /var/cache/pbuilder is just where the pbuilder does its stuff. You don't want to create files there
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: But you can pick up the finished .deb files there
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: got it, this is where I would package up to go back into the repository?
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: exactly
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: starting to make sense now.
<mok0> Then we've accomplished something tonight :-)
<mok0> (at least it's night here)
<mok0> jonnymind: I don't see your "falcon" package on revu
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: wait till I fix it and need to get the changes back in.....
 * Gunner_Sr_ lol
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_: There you go
<jonnymind> I didn't upload it: I must do the sourrce package following your rules.
<mok0> jonnymind: yes, ok. It's a bit of work :-)
<mok0> jonnymind: ... and then you'll have the MOTUs pounding on your package over and over and over again....
<jonnymind> I got an old package on my site (2 weeks old...), and tonight I cleaned it breaking up the .so.1 part from the rest, and cleaning the lintian report.
<jonnymind> :-) That goes beyond mybest hopes :-)
<mok0> jonnymind: You only need to split out the shared library if you're building a library package
<jonnymind> However, I  hope to get on it by tomorrow;
<bddebian> OK darnit lsmod shows my ipw2100 but I have no wireless device..?? :(
<jonnymind> I am.
<jonnymind> At least, in the distro for my site.
<mok0> jonnymind: ok
<jonnymind> The "engine" may be used without the interpreter.
<jonnymind> I.e. by embedding applications.
<mok0> jonnymind: cool
<jonnymind> :-)
<jonnymind> I have just a doubt on extension modules as i.e. regex, process and sockets...
<jonnymind> But we'll see.
<mok0> jonnymind: yes. Go ahead an build the package the way you think it should be done. You'll get feedback from the MOTUs, but they will at least have something to look at
<mok0> jonnymind: but be warned, it may take a while, and be prepared to hang around here asking for advice
<jonnymind> Thank you very much. I'll just read requirements to build source package and send what I have.
<jonnymind> I have never been afraid of aksing advice :-)
<jonnymind> I've learned long ago that arrogance never pays.
<mok0> jonnymind:  That's a valuable quality :-)
<jonnymind> Btw, If you want to give a look at the stuff to get an idea, I kan spam here or in pv the link.
<jonnymind> *can
<mok0> jonnymind: it's a bit late for me to do any serious work. I need to go to bed in a few minutes
<jonnymind> So you're in my time zone :-)
<jonnymind> I am leaving too.
<mok0> jonnymind: I'm in GMT+01
<jonnymind> Here GMT+2, I think, just shifted
<mok0> jonnymind: if we meet here again I can take a look (but I am not a MOTU)
<jonnymind> I will surely hang around here a lot.
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0: thanks for your help. I want to be a regular in MOTU, so you should me around.
<jonnymind> Anyhow, I need to make professional debs, even if they won't reach Ubuntu distro.
<mok0> Gunner_Sr_, jonnymind : nice to meet you guys, see you soon then!
<jonnymind> (i.e. if you don't accept them).
<jonnymind> It has been a pleasure.
<jonnymind> GoodNight.
<mok0> G'night!
<Gunner_Sr_> mok0, jonnymind: like wise.
<jonnymind> I sign off too. Good night and see you soon.
<Gunner_Sr_> jonnymind: seeya.
<nenolod> greetings
<TheMuso> Yay. Finally I've got a test rebuild of all libglib1.2 transition packages going.
<effie_jayx> TheMuso,  :D
<santiago-ve> ... omg... i was just calling effie_jayx a freak but...
<effie_jayx> santiago-ve,  show some respect for the motu!!
<santiago-ve> Ok, sorry effie_jayx, TheMuso ... im impusive sometimes
<TheMuso> Has anybody managed to get gpg agent working?
<TheMuso> Using the package in Gutsy, I can't seem to get it tow rok.
<TheMuso> to work
<TheMuso> GPG says there is a problem connecting.
<Hobbsee> which gpg agent are you using?
<Hobbsee> it requires a bit of mangling
<ScottK> TheMuso: Works for me.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: gnupg-agent
<imbrandon> seahorse works fine here, but i guess to dont mean that one
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: WHich one are you using?
<Hobbsee> oh hang on, gpg agent works by default
<Hobbsee> it's getting the gpg agent to do ssh that's harder
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: pinentry-gtk2
<somerville32> seahorse is amazing
<TheMuso> I'm not using ssh to do remote signing.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Does your ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf include 'use-agent'?
<TheMuso> Yes
<TheMuso> The agent loads on session start.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: got a howto on the ssh bit ? i'd love to use it for remote signing
 * Hobbsee does not like seahorse
<TheMuso> But gpg can't connect to it for some reason.
<TheMuso> GPG_AGENT_INFO gets set
<StevenK> I like pinentry
<ScottK> TheMuso: And you've got a pinentry installed?
<TheMuso> Instaling now.
<imbrandon> 'i've never used anything but seahorse, guess i should try the others
<StevenK> TheMuso: What about .gnupg/gpg-agent.conf ?
<TheMuso> StevenK: I don't have that file.
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% cat .gnupg/gpg-agent.conf
<StevenK> pinentry-program /usr/bin/pinentry
<TheMuso> ah ok.
<StevenK> TheMuso: That's how gpg knows to ask for a PIN via pinentry
<TheMuso> Right.
<mwolson> i like gpa better than seahorse
<StevenK> TheMuso: You baulked at signing that many sources by hand?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: there is, on google somewhere, but i can't seem to find it
<TheMuso> StevenK: Well I do want an agent to help me, yes.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: cool i'll dig a little later
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: it's http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/378 and modifying 90gpg-agent
<StevenK> Pinentry is great
<Hobbsee> the original page was green, adn i can't find it now.
 * Hobbsee can scp the 90gpg-agent file over to aurora, if you wish
<imbrandon> i'm just happy to get my usb+crypt fs image+ssh keys happy :)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: how about people.uw.c , aurora is long since gone
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> Time estimate: 0.25 man/month.
<StevenK> Can someone explain what that actually means?
<imbrandon> ( actualy its not gone, its just behind a private fw now )
<imbrandon> StevenK: take 1 person ~7.5 days ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~hobbsee/90gpg-agent
<TheMuso> br
<TheMuso> brb
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: killer thanks
<minghua> StevenK: Sounds like diet estimate instead of time estimate. :-)
<StevenK> imbrandon: How do you get that?
<imbrandon> StevenK: man = 1 and 30 / 4
 * ScottK makes a note of bddebian getting actual help on #debian-devel and not messed with at all.  Something must be wrong with the universe today.
<minghua> imbrandon: 0.25 man/month literaly equals to 1 man per 4 months.
<imbrandon> umm ok, was only a guess
<imbrandon> :)
<TheMuso> Um ok.
<TheMuso> gpg doesn't want to use pinentry-gtk-2
<StevenK> minghua: Which means how much time?
<TheMuso> I have the gpg-agent.conf file like StevenK explained, as well as use-agent in gpg.conf.
<Hobbsee> you probably need the custom 90gpg-agent script
<minghua> StevenK: I think maybe it's just a typo of (man * month) instead of (man / month).
<bddebian> ScottK: No shit eh? :)
<TheMuso> Gpg simply says: gpg: gpg-agent is not available in this session
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Where can I find that?
 * Hobbsee points ~15 lines up
<Hobbsee> http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~hobbsee/90gpg-agent
<TheMuso> thanks
 * ScottK can sense the world about to return to normal.
<imbrandon> ?
<slomo> siretart: ping? what do you think about updating ffmpeg in debian to a newer svn snapshot? ;)
<StevenK> TheMuso: Did you logout since adding use-agent in gpg.conf?
<TheMuso> StevenK: hang on, gotta log out again to make use of the new script.
<TheMuso> brb
<ScottK> imbrandon: For a minute there it looked like bddebian was gonna get dumped on in #debian-devel again.
<imbrandon> ahh
<StevenK> vorlon is playing nice
<Hobbsee> he has to.  he's involved with ubuntu.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Not on #debian-devel he doesn't.
<persia> (and not when using that nick)
<TheMuso> yay!
<ScottK> He generally does, but I was sensing an exception moving in.
 * Hobbsee would have still expected that one would have to behave nicely to coworkers, and related community, on any network.
 * persia doesn't think Hobbsee idles in #d-d often
<ScottK> Heh.
 * TheMuso sits back and watches the mass signing.
<Hobbsee> persia: i do - the question is how often i read it
<persia> heh
<imbrandon> heh thats exactly why i idle and not talk there :)
<bddebian> ScottK: You're killing me man :)
<imbrandon> man i wish there was 3 of me at times
 * StevenK usually idles on there because it's mainly ari helix and Clint all talking about crap
<imbrandon> i idle there just to peek when someone says something like this
<imbrandon> heh
<bddebian> StevenK: Nooo ;-)
<imbrandon> but i'm easy to spot, the Ubuntu guy hidden in the corner with -0- lines in the logs
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> If it were only like that here
<imbrandon> lol
<bddebian> haha
<StevenK> Oh, did I say that out loud? :_P
 * imbrandon goes back to #kubuntu-devel
<imbrandon> :P
<ajmitch> it's ok imbrandon, I'm in permanent lurk mode now as well
<imbrandon> ajmitch: :)
<imbrandon> i noticed, where ya been man
<ajmitch> around
<imbrandon> i thought you got a new gf or something :)
<ajmitch> I'm on irc most days
<ajmitch> I just don't speak up
<StevenK> ajmitch has nothing to say
<ajmitch> exactly
 * Hobbsee neither
 * imbrandon contemplates blogging about the crypt disk image + usb key thing , since it took me 2 days of googling
<ajmitch> so why fill the channel with inane rubbish?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: dunno, i seem to do it quite often :)
<imbrandon> but i still get a bit of work done too
 * ajmitch gets more actual work done, at least
<imbrandon> hehe yea
<TheMuso> THe mass upload starts.
 * persia pities the buildds
<ajmitch> plus, not being involved with development, there usually isn't much for me to talk about in here now
<persia> ajmitch: You could be involved in development :)
<imbrandon> what did you give up ? noooooooooooo
<ajmitch> I've tried
<StevenK> You were at one point, your core-dev membership says that
<ajmitch> yep
<imbrandon> and DD status :)
<StevenK> Pfeh, becoming a DD means answering a bunch of questions and waiting
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> heh
<minghua> Mostly waiting these days, I would assume.
<imbrandon> actualy i heard there is a bunch of new people on the NM staff
 * persia thinks occasional sporadic bouts of question answering remain
<imbrandon> so maybe not
<slangasek> ScottK: sorry, should I pick on bddebian here to set things right?
<bddebian> :'-(
<imbrandon> save bddebian , save the world
<bddebian> haha
<imbrandon> i got mondays epsiode on the dvr , havent watched it yet
<bddebian> It was fairly lame :-(
<imbrandon> wife wont let me untill she can too :(
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> yea season 2 hasent been near as good as season 2
<imbrandon> err season 1$
<RAOF> imbrandon: Sounds interesting (crypt + usb).  Feel free to blog :)
<bddebian> Gah so many uploads I need to do for the Games Team.. It's so frustrating :-(
<imbrandon> RAOF: i was justa bout to then i found almost exactly what i did on the wiki
<imbrandon> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GPGKeyOnUSBDrive
<imbrandon> i just added my .ssh also
 * bddebian should make StevenK do all his games team uploads.. ;-P
<StevenK>  /ignore bddebian ALL
 * bddebian feels loved
<StevenK> So you shouldn't
<persia> bddebian: Why don't you just send RFS mail to the mailing lists for that?
<bddebian> persia: Which list, mentors or games-devel?
 * persia points at Message-ID: <47561758.6090409@gmail.com> as a good example
<bddebian> ??
<persia> bddebian: Message-ID: <473A5FA3.8040106@comcast.net> (http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-games/2007/11/msg00088.html) is also pretty good.
 * persia wants a search engine that shows a bunch of mirrors & archives for any given Message-ID
<bddebian> persia: Yeah and look at all the responses.. ;-P
<persia> bddebian: Still not uploaded yet?  Seems to work for others.<4671dd0c0711191145y17447896yb9fdf0b18dfe55d6@mail.gmail.com> seemed to get sponsored in 27 minutes.  You're just unlucky :(
<bddebian> I'm just loved :)
<persia> bddebian: Collect all your fixes, and upload to Ubuntu, and send Utnubu a patch if you're really bothered.
<tonyyarusso> Does anyone know of a way to sync contact information between desktop address books (Thunderbird, Evolution, etc.) and GMail?
<persia> Isn't there a Conduit plugin for that?
<tonyyarusso> There's one called "Google -> Email", not sure if that means contacts too though
<tonyyarusso> And Conduit has nothing for TB yet, just evo
<RAOF> Conduit's UI was entirely opaque to me when I tried it.
<RAOF> Ah, C++.  For when your box has nothing better to do than spew thousands of lines of warnings for hours on end
<persia> tonyyarusso: Hmmm..  Maybe needs some help then.  I don't think anyone every added Google support to multisync.
<Burgundavia> TB has some nasty issues with their db
<ScottK> Using mbox on large folders of mail has, um, inherent limitations.
<ScottK> slangasek: It depends on how much you would enjoy it.
<bddebian> Heyyy
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: Agreed - it took me a while to figure out that I was supposed to drag pairs of things
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: I've generally liked it, but might be open to a change.  What do you use btw?
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: And even once you've discovered that (if you're thinking about the same "now there's an arrow connecting us" bit), it's *still* entirely non-obvious what conduit will actually *do* :)
<tonyyarusso> TB had the initial attraction of being cross-platform, which was relevant when I dual-booted, but I haven't done that for a while
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: hehe
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: If you have any significant volume of stored mail, pick a client that uses maildir.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: err, off to wikipedia to find out which ones do I guess...
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Kmail for sure.  Dunno about the others.  I think evolution will if you lean that way.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: definitely needs to be GTK of some sort for me - I'm trying to keep myself in that realm now
<ScottK> Well then I'm definitely not the one to give specific advice.
<RAOF> Anyone use claws?
<bddebian> Oh there's a wide open joke there.. :)
<ScottK> I know norsetto did some work on it late in Gutsy.  Dunno if he actually uses it or not.
 * Hobbsee used to use it a bit
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: wp claims evo supports all three of mbox, maildir, and MH
<ScottK> I'd expect it does.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: I tried it once at least
 * ScottK recalls it will also support SSL V2 at least in some upgraded configs.  You'll want to avoid that.
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: gmail
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Yeah, I'm actually using GMail now, but I really am not terribly fond of reading mail with web interfaces
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: any idea where they'd put the setting for which one it uses?
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: No idea since I've only used it once for a few days 2 years ago.
 * ScottK only knows because there was an issue with Courier where it wouldn't support it anymore (which IMO would be a good thing), but some Evo users complained.
<tonyyarusso> ok
<ScottK> Evo does support SSLv3, so I imagine there's a knob for it somewhere.
<RAOF> Woah.  The claws metapackages depend on all the plugins, rather than recommend them.  I really don't want clamav, or both spamassassin and bogofilter.
 * persia encourages RAOF to upload a s/Depends:/Recommends:/ patch
<RAOF> I may well do so.
<RAOF> _Then_ I'll try claws :)
<ScottK> RAOF: Which package depends on everything?  claws-mail doesn't seem to.
<RAOF> claws-mail-plugins
<RAOF> And claws-mail-extra-plugins, which has approximately infinity Depends
<ScottK> Ah.
<RAOF> And for some reason they appear to be all versioned.
<RAOF> Someone's been at the crack, it seems.
<ScottK> Since the package description says it's purpose is to install all the plugins, then it's not inherently horrible to depend on them.
<RAOF> It could just Recommend them, now.
<RAOF> That'll pull in all the plugins, and allow me to say that, no, I really don't want the clamav plugin.
<RAOF> (our apt-get handles Recommends properly now, right?)
<TheMuso> No afaik.
<persia> RAOF: You mean, treats it like Depends unless you tell it otherwise?  Not yet.
<persia> aptitude has a per-user configurable setting to do the right thing.
<RAOF> Why isn't apt-get a thin wrapper script around aptitude yet?
<persia> RAOF: Not feature compatible.  Try apt-get download or aptitude source
<RAOF> Yeah, I know.
 * TheMuso still uses apt-get for everything.
 * bddebian too
<RAOF> So, I suppose in the absense of "apt-get installs recommends by default", I suppose s/Depend:/Recommend:/ is not yet appropriate.
 * persia advocates aptitude with a will, if insufficient justification
 * RAOF thinks "It works better" is sufficent justification
<TheMuso> Hell the only time I ever use GUI package management is if I need to install support for a particular video/audio codec.
<persia> RAOF: It's on the hardy feature list: any bugs can be blamed on installing hardy early and not using an intelligent package manager.
<persia> Further, only new users installing it for the first time will be affected, and they can manually install nay plugins they want.
<persia> TheMuso: I use aptitude in non-curses commandline mode for > 90% of invocations.
<RAOF> And I suppose I'll have to push this up to Debian, too.
<persia> RAOF: For Debian, I'd wait until Recommends-by-Default is in place: there's no "You upgraded to early, feel the pain" equivalent there.
<persia> s/to/too/
<slangasek> persia: hmm? AFAIK Recommends-by-Default is in place in Debian, if that's what you're referring to?
 * ScottK has tried aptitude and had trouble with it getting confused about the state of his system.
<persia> slangasek: Excellent then :)
<RAOF> Yeah, I thought they'd done the switch before us.
 * ScottK only let aptitude uninstall his entire desktop once before deciding he didn't really need aptitude.
<StevenK> Oh yeah, and Adept is *so* much better.
<Hobbsee> <dies>
<ScottK> Heh.
 * Hobbsee hands StevenK a penalty card.  lying.
<bddebian> hehe
<persia> ScottK: aptitude is intelligent, but if you don't use it from the beginning, it needs some hints about what you want.  It typically does ask if it's making the right choice.
 * ScottK gave up on Adept a long time before aptitdue.
<ScottK> persia: I'd been using it.
 * StevenK hands Hobbsee two penalty cards. Bad call, and failing to recognize sarcasm
<persia> ScottK: Then it asked you if you really wanted to uninstall your desktop, and you said "Yes", and you blame aptitude?
<ScottK> my mistake hitting Y one to many times.
<StevenK> So aptitude isn't to blame...
 * Hobbsee gives StevenK 3 cards, bad card, my rule, one card for sarcasm, and one for talking.
<ScottK> But there was no packaging issue that forced it to want to.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I'll get you
<Hobbsee> sure sure
<persia> ScottK: There must have been something: if nothing else, a missing recommends, and agressive use of markauto.
<StevenK> Actually, a penalty card can't be a bad card
<ScottK> persia: It was a bug in aptitude, I'm pretty sure.  I've read about aptitude having some kind of package state cache that can get corrupted.
<StevenK> ScottK: And I've never had it corrupted...
 * ScottK find the trip to UDS to have been worthwhile just to understand what StevenK and Hobbsee are talking about right now.
<persia> ScottK: Maybe.  I generally find aptitude wants to install everything if I try to upgrade some NBS transition before it's complete, and never otherwise.  apt-get just leaves me with symbol errors.
 * Hobbsee taught her coworker about mao last night.
<StevenK> ScottK: Penalty card. Taking the name of our emporer in vain
<Hobbsee> we were discussing poker
<persia> s/install/uninstall/
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Penalty card. Taking the name of our emporer in vain
 * Hobbsee hands StevenK a penalty card.  talking.  and aonther.  bad call.
<StevenK> Hmph
<Hobbsee> (wrong target)
 * ScottK quietly slinks off to bed.
<StevenK> The rule I quite like enforcing is "Penalty card. Saying PoV during a PoV."
<StevenK> Er, PoO
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<slangasek> saying NPOV during a P of O
 * StevenK kicks slangasek 
<RAOF> I'm confused by claws-mail-extra-plugins.  Is there *any* reason for a metapackage to depend on plugin-* (>= ${binary:Version})?
<persia> Previous version was buggy?
<RAOF> Shouldn't that then have (>= $BUGGY_VERSION)?
<persia> Seems less crackful
<RAOF> I suppose someone could've pinned one of the plugins?
<RAOF> I just don't see how it's helpful.  This metapackage is built from the same source as all the plugins, so the only thing I can see that versioning doing is breaking the package when one of the plugins conflicts with something else.
<RAOF> So, the question is now: do I strip all the crazy (>= ${binary:Version}) from c-m-e-p or not?
<persia> RAOF: You might check the Debian bug archive & the changelog to see if there was a reason for putting them there in the first place, but otherwise...
<RAOF> persia: Nothing sprang out from the bugs...
<RAOF> And nothing's obvious in the changelog.  I'll remove them.
<RAOF> Actually, the packaging is more confusing than that, too.  The sylpheed-claws-plugin-* transitional packages have wierd versioned dependencies, too.
<RAOF> All in all, a strange package.
<persia> RAOF: After some thought, I seem to remember some transition happening in the past, but I can't remember the details.  I wonder if that might be related.
<RAOF> persia: Want to check out the actual control file, see if the exact details ring a bell?
<persia> RAOF: They wouldn't.  I'd need to poll my dpkg logs to find the dates, and check changelogs, which I can't do for around 5 hours.  On the other hand, it was long enough ago that the transition is likely no longer relevant, but you might want to compare to sylpheed-* in Dapper, just to make sure.
<RAOF> There certainly was a transition from the sylpheed-claws-gtk2-* -> claws-mail-* naming, but I don't see why you'd want the versioning that's in the package.
<persia> RAOF: That there was a transition was all I remembered.  Doesn't mean it was done right :)
<RAOF> Heh.
<pkern> SRU policy question:  if flashplugin-nonfree is broken due to MD5 mismatch (new version), would we introduce the new version, adjusting the sums?  (I don't know if there would be an alternative, though.)
<RAOF> Yay special cases.  I *think* that's what's been done in the past, but I haven't really been paying attention before.
<pkern> LP: #173890
<Fujitsu> keescook: Whatever did you do to the ubuntu-cve-tracker branch? Whatever it was, it has introduced a whole lot of conflicts in my files in my branch that I've never edited...
<Fujitsu> s/my //
<Fujitsu> Hey \sh.
<\sh> moins Fujitsu
<\sh> Fujitsu, do you have powers to ack the nominations for bug #173948 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173948 in sing "[CVE-2007-6211] sing in debian is vulnerable" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173948
<Fujitsu> \sh: Probably.
 * Fujitsu checks.
<Fujitsu> \sh: All five releases?
<\sh> Fujitsu, oh well, hardy is also vulnerable...if you can apply the patch for it, cool...so yes, all five
<Fujitsu> Right, it has the same version as Gutsy.
<Fujitsu> I'll upload it in a couple of minutes.
<\sh> Fujitsu, just get the patch from the debian bug report...low hanging fruit ;)
<Fujitsu> \sh: Yep.
 * Fujitsu grumbles at Mitre not having every CVE yet.
<paran> why are there suddenly a whole lot of packages in gutsy-updates that have changelogs for gutsy-proposed?
<\sh> wtf...why is bug #173881 marked as fixed released?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173881 in wesnoth "the option "turn_cmd" can stall a computer or maybe start another application" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173881
<persia> \sh: Hardy has 1.2.8.  Opening the other tasks now...
<Fujitsu> paran: Because packages are now uploaded to gutsy-proposed, then copied to -updates.
<\sh> persia, please add dapper task to it and assign it to me
<persia> \sh: bug #173881 open for assignment
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173881 in wesnoth "the option "turn_cmd" can stall a computer or maybe start another application" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173881
 * Fujitsu wants a `Sync' button on LP
<persia> Fujitsu: That just automatically requests a sync to the latest Debian version, and has all the right access control checks?
 * \sh wants a "Please find all patches and fix package automagically" ,-)
<Fujitsu> persia: I'd like it to actually perform the sync.
<Fujitsu> I don't see why it shouldn't.
<Fujitsu> \sh: That would be nice.
<persia> Fujitsu: I thought there was supposed to be archive-admin review for some reason, but given that appropriate people could just upload, I see your point.
 * \sh needs a coffee 
<Fujitsu> persia: It's more dangerous to restrict it to ubuntu-archive, as people can fakesync easily and that is more damaging.
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, anyone who can fakesync can also do a real sync, if they feel like it, we just typically delegate to the archive admins.  I agree that such a feature would be nice.
<Fujitsu> persia: A real sync after a long waiting period and manual work by others, right.
<pochu> ScottK: re: wesnoth backports. Gutsy doesn't have wesnoth in -backports, so there are no vulnerabilities there ;) But I can request one for it, yes. Do you think it's a good idea?
<Fujitsu> \sh: sing/hardy uploaded.
<\sh> Fujitsu, cool thx
<\sh> now for CVE-2007-6111 I wonder which file they patched...epan/dissectors/packet-mpeg-audio.c or wiretap/mpeg.c
<pkern> Fujitsu: We could also write a sync tool that syncs directly instead of requesting it.
<persia> pkern: That breaks the (limited) archive tracking that is currently in place.
<Fujitsu> pkern: We could, yes.
<Fujitsu> Rather easily.
<imbrandon> just have it change the release and upload :)
<persia> imbrandon: Well, no, but there are ways.
<imbrandon> persia: huh ?
<persia> imbrandon: source package should be unmodified.  needs Origin:, etc.
<pkern> persia: Well, if something changed in the last three months...
<\sh> for people in the right team, we should enable this "sync" functionality in LP
<imbrandon> persia: huh? i've changed the release and uplaoded before, should work fine
<persia> \sh: That's exactly what Fujitsu proposed earlier :)
<pkern> persia: Not the source package itself.  At max the dsc but I think only the changes.
<\sh> persia, yeah, I +1 it ...
<persia> imbrandon: That's a fakesync: please add a chancelog entry if you do that.
<imbrandon> i d
<imbrandon> o
<pkern> persia: I wouldn't call it fake, except if the real sync tool does secret things to LP.
<persia> pkern: Yes, only .changes, but it still breaks the limited tracking we have in place.  Needs a bug, and some thought.
<imbrandon> persia: btw the , huh? was the tracking you speak of
<pkern> pitti said that given a right tool for this job the MOTU could get the power to sync themselves after import freeze.
<persia> pkern: "fakesync": upload to Ubuntu with no Ubuntu modifications (usually due to different orig.tar.gz, etc.).  "sync": archive inclusion of unmodified Debian package.
<persia> pkern: Sure, it's just a matter of being sufficiently robust, and having archive-admin approval to break the tracking (or documented guidelines to preserve tracking).
<imbrandon> the tracking you speak of ??
<persia> imbrandon: bug tracking.  Bugs are subscribed u-a, and assigned a member of u-a.
<imbrandon> and why does that NEED to happen ?
<persia> (as I said, "limited")
<persia> imbrandon: To keep track of things?
<imbrandon> i see that as a plus it going away
<\sh> does anyone know if the wireshark guys have an irc channel on freenode?
<imbrandon> just skip assigning u-a and sink it yourself
<imbrandon> everything else stays the same
<persia> imbrandon: Why?  Wouldn't it be nice to be able to answer the question "What idiot overwrote my changes and broke the package I use every day?"
<imbrandon> sure, look for the uploader, already possible
<Fujitsu> \sh: /join #omgsomanysecurityflaws, perhaps.
<\sh> Fujitsu, lol...why not
<persia> imbrandon: Changelog entry?  Remember, unmodified source.
<Fujitsu> persia: Set Changed-By in the .changes.
<imbrandon> uploader, e.g who signed changes
<Fujitsu> That seems to be what sync-source.py does.
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.  Manual.  Needs to be documented somewhere, and u-a needs to approve others following the guideline.  Not really a big issue.
<pkern> That's already set according to the requestor currently, so that should be trivial.
<Fujitsu> Or give a sync button.
<persia> pkern: Yes, trivial.  I still prefer a sync button.  Saves policy that can't easily be enforced.
<imbrandon> really i dont see why "they" need to give aproval persia , i have noticed that before with things
<imbrandon> documented sure
<Fujitsu> .changes are likely to be going away in not too long, anyway.
<pkern> Fujitsu: Yay, go for breaking Debian tools.
<imbrandon> why ?
<persia> imbrandon: I believe that people who currently do something should approve changes to how that thing is done, rather then people who don't do that thing.
<imbrandon> err why going away
<Fujitsu> pkern: Better than having the current replay attack vulnerabilities...
<persia> Fujitsu: Why?
<pkern> Fujitsu: They don't have a GPG cache?
<pkern> Fujitsu: Haha.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: thats just nuts, we should fix the lp admins not the tool
<imbrandon> bad bad mojo
<\sh> argl...it really was wiretap/mpeg.c
<\sh> s/libpcap_t/mpeg_t/
<\sh> why don't they write good comments to their commits
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu
<\sh> moins dholbach
<siretart> slomo: good idea! help is more than welcome with updating the current quilt patches to the new version
<dholbach> heya \sh, hey siretart
 * siretart hugs both \sh and dholbach :)
<dholbach> :-)
<\sh> dholbach, push your mixes on jamendo pls ;)
<dholbach> \sh: I'm not allowed to do that
<\sh> dholbach, why not?
<\sh> cool...wireshark fixed...attaching patch for gutsy now
<asac> persia: hey :) is latest prism in revu ok - from packaging pov?
<persia> asac: Looked great to me, but needs testing, and I don't have accounts to use those tools.
<asac> persia: ok ... thanks for the review ... the apps are just webapps and they should work ... i tested gmail and calendar, so i think its ok
<persia> asac: I'm just extra picky, and avoid "should work".  On the other hand, as far as I'm concerned, prism is just waiting for advocates, rather than needing real work.
<asac> hmmm ... apparently the user-db recreation wiped my revu account
<persia> asac: Upload something :)
<asac> siretart: ajmitch: do i need to upload something to revu to get my revu account restored?
<asac> (for reviewing)
<persia> asac: It's easiest.  The DB can be frobbed, but ...
<persia> asac: Once you have the account, it's a simple matter for one of the admins to set you "reviewer".
<\sh> so...wesnoth in dapper is testbuilding...
<asac> persia: i hoped that my account might still be in the DB, but just deactivated or something because i used a non @ubuntu.com email
<persia> asac: When the accounts were recreated they were based on the latest upload to the repos.  Try your maintainer email address.
<persia> (and use "recover" to get the PW: all passwords were reset)
<asac> yeah ... that works better, but now i get: http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=asac@ubuntu.com
 * \sh is glad that he never used the @ubuntu.com address 
<minghua> asac: If you were an MOTU when the DB was reset, your account should have been recreated, using your usual upload address.
<persia> asac: With no text?  Odd.  I don't have my keys handy, but if you can't get someone else to sort it in the next 2 hours, I'll be able to fix it then (but I might need an upload).
<asac> persia: ok lets wait a bit ... maybe I get an idea what I could upload :)
<persia> asac: If you can't think of anything else, hello is always handy :)
<huats> morning MOTU world
<\sh> moins huats
<huats> hey \sh
 * TheMuso votes that those who have handled mass transitions in the past, should not be required to do so in the near future. So for me, this is the only transition I'm doing for a long while. :p
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> TheMuso, damn...you spammed my -changes list, thx for that :)
<TheMuso> Someone had to do it.
<TheMuso> and pitti suggested it should be scripted...
<TheMuso> So, while I could have staggered somewat more, it would have to be done at some point.
<imbrandon> fixes are always a good hting
<imbrandon> thing*
<geser> morning
<\sh> woosaaa ... dapper wesnoth done
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> mitre is down?
<Fujitsu> \sh: Wouldn't be the first time.
<Fujitsu> But WFM.
<\sh> damn...I just wanted to fix the last bugs for cacti
<Fujitsu> Oh, cve.mitre.org is down.
<Fujitsu> Has cacti.net recovered yet?
<\sh> Fujitsu, yepp
<jonnymind> Hello; I am preparing a packege, but need little push in the right direction.
<\sh> well...time for a coffee and a cigarette
<persia> jonnymind: More context is good.
<jonnymind> Is there any example around about building more than one binary package from a source package?
<jonnymind> I.e. I have a source from which I generate an "engine" solib, binary files and -dev package.
<persia> jonnymind: Most of the library packages are reasonable examples, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Lists/DocumentationResources has a link to the overview on the Debian wiki.,
<persia> jonnymind: You may also find the Library Packaging Guide, in that same list, useful.
<jonnymind> Ok, thank you, that was the info I was searching for.
<jonnymind> (you know, at times finding the root of an information tree is kinda difficult in Internet having only word-oriented S.E. at disposal :-)
<persia> jonnymind: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing should be a reasonable root when getting started.
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/ is intended as the root for our processes in general.
<jonnymind> I see. Thanks.
<jonnymind> Ok, I am on my way now. I'll be back soon in search for help.
<jonnymind> :-) later.
<minghua> Hmm, Debian's python-numpy is having big changes.
<kagou> Hi
<\sh> how can someone merge bugs on LP?
<StevenK> Mark as duplicate?
<\sh> nope...it's not a dupe...
<StevenK> Then why merge them?
<\sh> one package, 4 releases, 3 bugs ... for 2 releases those three bugs are still valid and fixed in the last bug...
<\sh> still haven't a good CVE tracking in LP those bugs are really bad
<Amaranth> \sh: That doesn't make sense, if they're not dupes they shouldn't be merged
<Amaranth> That's what dupe is for
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: Security bugs are somewhat special at the moment.
<white> Amaranth: who cares about security?
<Fujitsu> They often cover a multitude of issues, and there can be a multitude of multiple-issue bugs.
<Fujitsu> Hey white.
<white> Fujitsu: :)
<Amaranth> white: Not me
<white> Fujitsu: time to review some php crap, i'd like to have a second opinion
<Amaranth> My code doesn't have any (known) security problems :P
<Fujitsu> white: Ewww, but OK.
<\sh> oh.../me goes to lunch...PHP crap makes me ill ,-)
 * Fujitsu unfortunately spends much of his time at work on a PHP monstrosity.
<white> poor thing
<StevenK> Fujitsu: You lose
<white> Fujitsu: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=448690
<ubotu> Debian bug 448690 in sitebar "CVE-2007-5695: possible security problem" [Normal,Open]
<white> nmu patch is attached there
<white> that damn sitebar thing was annyoing me for too long in the tracker
<Fujitsu> It is shocking security-wise (I inherited it), and it looks like it will be replaced soon.
<Fujitsu> Argh, not sitebar...
<white> :)
<Fujitsu> (the webapp is fortunately hidden behind Apache authentication, and only trustworthy people have access...)
<white> i was not getting a lot of information out of all the CVEs, but i hope i got the main things
<white> i personally do not see the holes in the translator module as a major problem, but it was in the tracker for too long and nobody is picking it up :/
<Fujitsu> white: Ergh, it looks evil.
<white> it's php
<StevenK> Fujitsu: "Trustworthy" ?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Colleagues who aren't likely to be doing anything evil. The company is small enough that they all have access to the server on which it resides if they need it, anyway.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Yes, but one thing you need to learn is they are users. And users aren't to be trusted.
<Fujitsu> They can do much more evil things than exploit potential security issues in said application.
<white> StevenK: you need to let love in and trust and stuff
<white> StevenK: we are leaving in a world full of harmony ;)
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<StevenK> white: I've been a sysadmin too long for that.
 * StevenK twitches
<Fujitsu> I'd like to fix the issues, but there are too many of them and many are enormous architectural flaws.
<StevenK> The first being "It's PHP" ?
<Fujitsu> That being one, yes.
<white> Fujitsu: i'll go offline for a few hours now, please tell me your report and opinion of the patch, i'd like to get that damn app out of our todo list (at least for now)
<Fujitsu> white: Yep, I'm looking at it.
<Fujitsu> See you later.
 * StevenK tells his mail server to hurry up.
<Fujitsu> I guess I can thank my predecessor for one thing: not requiring register_globals.
<geser> is it possible to use a patch system to fix an error in a python script which gets called in clean?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Oooh. Wow, a PHP "coder" who doesn't use register_globals. I think there is a pedestal around here somewhere for him.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Heh.
<Fujitsu> <3 PHP
<Fujitsu> I'm not encouraged by the number of WordPress and phpMyAdmin CVEs which mention that it is debateable whether it is a PHP or $APP bug.
<kkubasik> hey, does anyone know if hardy's mono is screwed in some really horrible way?
<Fujitsu> It's hardy, so it might well be.
<kkubasik> hmmm.. is there a chance that the build server is out of date?
<Fujitsu> Build server?
<kkubasik> you know waht, gimme 1 sec to give you the build log
<kkubasik> ppa
<kkubasik> scratch that, its only happening on amd64
<kkubasik> sorry to bother!
<seb128> hi
<seb128> is JÃ©rÃ´me Guelfucci <jerome.guelfucci@gmail.com> connect on IRC?
<Fujitsu> seb128: jeromeg is his nick, but he's not here at the moment...
<seb128> ok
<seb128> could anybody tell him to send his claws-mail-extra-plugins ftbfs fix to debian so the package can still be synced?
<seb128> I'll comment on the bug
<StevenK> Ooh yes.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: What now?
 * StevenK downloads Nine Inch Nails - Y34RZ3R0R3MIX3D
<Fujitsu> O_o
<StevenK> Fujitsu: The previous NIN album is "Year Zero", this is a bunch of remixes
 * StevenK listens to songs from Therion - Lemuria as they download. Oh, how I missed thee
<pgquiles> I want debuild to ignore the .svn directories. What's wrong with "debuild -S -sa --dpkg-source-hook=-I.svn"? (according to the manpage, that should work but debuild says "unknown dpkg-buildpackage/debuild option: --dpkg-source-hook=-I.svn")
<azeem> pgquiles: did you try just -isvn?
<pgquiles> azeem: thank you, that works fine
<soren> pgquiles: dpkg-source-hook is not for passing options to dpkg-source. It's for passing names of scripts, you'd like to get called.
<pgquiles> soren: oh, thanks
<soren> pgquiles: debuild provides a way to call scripts at various points in the build process to do various things. I for instance had a script at one point that would automatically extract any changes I had accidentally done directly to the source and put it in a patch file.
 * Hobbsee waves
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> :)
<seb128> Hobbsee: hey there :-P
<Hobbsee> :P
<Hobbsee> hey #3 back
<gaspa> txwikinger: ping
<\sh> fixing rsync
<ScottK> pochu: I've no opinion on Wesnoth in backports.
<pochu> Ok, so backporting it to -edgy and -feisty should be enough.
<\sh> ScottK, pochu : leave it like it is...there is no harm...the security fixes will be uploaded in no time
<\sh> only for those where backports were requested in the past, there should be a new backport of the secfixed version
<pochu> \sh: that's what we are talking about :-) -edgy has 1.2.3 and -feisty has 1.2.6 in backports
<ScottK> \sh: Agreed.
<pochu> So they need to be updated too.
 * ScottK was trying to discuss generally how one should handle it yesterday.
<\sh> pochu, but as I said yesterday, please wait until the 6102 fix is uploaded to the pockets..
<\sh> (gutsy,feisty) that is...
<\sh> do we have stats how many people are using -backports actively?
<ScottK> \sh: No, but we do know that when we upload broken stuff there people notice, so it's used.
<ScottK> \sh: In general I'd say more people will use current release + backports than use the development release.
<ScottK> I base that on broken stuff getting uploaded and then backported and no one noticed it was broken until it was already backported.
<pochu> \sh: I was thinking in backporting 1.2.8. But we can backport from -security instead of hardy too. I don't care.
<\sh> pochu, as I said, we don't backport from hardy...only -backports for gutsy is coming from hardy
<ScottK> \sh: Why not?
<ScottK> \sh: That's normally now I would do it.
<\sh> ScottK, so you mean, we can backport from latest development to oldest release?
<ScottK> \sh: If it actually works, yes.  Have a look at postfix in dapper-backports.
<ScottK> That was taken from Gutsy just before the Gutsy release.
<\sh> ScottK, and it gets all security fixes from gutsy automatically?
<ScottK> \sh: The version in Hardy is fixed already?
<ScottK> I'm not sure I understand the question?
<\sh> ScottK, when someone is pushing gutsies version to dapper, and gutsies version is buggy, it needs to get all fixes from gutsy later on for dapper-backports...right?
<\sh> ScottK, if it doesn't do it automatically this would be a nightmare...
<ScottK> It doesn't do it automatically.
<\sh> ScottK, and that's really a problem
<ScottK> It can be.
<ScottK> Generally the solution is to fix the development release and backport again.
<ScottK> Once something has been tested for a backport, doing the actual backport is not very hard.
<\sh> ScottK, when backports became official, we had the deal that only from devel release to devel-1 release can be backported, but not from devel release to devel-3
<\sh> means, that we could backport from edgy to dapper, but not from feisty to dapper
<ScottK> \sh: I see.  That's before my time, but particularly with an LTS release, we've been taking stuff as far back as it would go if it was requested.
<ScottK> Almost all of the multi-release backports are to Dapper.  I think for LTS is needs to be a bit different.
<\sh> ScottK, tbh, that's the worst crack I can think of...all those hip hobby admins are using backports, getting vulnerable software, and no one is there who deals with unsupported backports
<\sh> to make them secure
<Hobbsee> backports are crack.  this is known
<\sh> ScottK, we can do also source-changed backports nowadays, right?
<Hobbsee> as they're done by jdong and cronies.
<Hobbsee> !jdong
<ubotu> <Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<ScottK> \sh: We can although we try to minimize them.
<ScottK> Making something secure would definitely be a good reason.
<\sh> -EAPOCALYPSENOW
<ScottK> Hobbsee: While I would agree they have risks, I think they've calmed down a bit.
<ScottK> For something like clamav, we'd be dead without backports.
<\sh> ScottK, right, there are special cases
<\sh> well, let's break dapper...requesting a backport of latest wireshark in hardy...and most of the dapper network people are doomed
<ScottK> \sh: Please test it before you do.
<\sh> ScottK, this is something I will never do
<ScottK> \sh: Test or backport wireshark?
<\sh> ScottK, but there are others, who could and are able to
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Testing is generally where the choke point is in backports.
<ScottK> jdong was going to find some more people to do testing, but I haven't seen much in the way of results yet.
<\sh> ScottK, as I said, it would all make sense, _if_ there are people who are 100% responsible for this...and _if_ those people are taking care about the latest bugfixes to automatically do the backports
<ScottK> \sh: Well I will tell you that for stuff I've requested backports for, I to look after them too.
<\sh> ScottK, is there a list, where I can see, from which version the -backports version is coming from?
<ScottK> \sh: Usually you can see from the publishing history.  Let me find a good example.
<ScottK> \sh: If you look at Postfix, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postfix you can see that the versions in Feisty and Dapper came from Gutsy.
<ScottK> As it happens there was one Postfix upload to Gutsy after we backported it, but that would've broken on Dapper (no libdb4.5), so it's just as well.
<\sh> ScottK, dapper is still suported, when gutsy is out of support, or?
<ScottK> For server stuff, yes.
<\sh> ScottK, so, if no one ever do something new for postfix on backports, we don't see it on the list anymore, right?
<ScottK> We'll be able to backport the Hardy version of Postfix to Dapper with just one change.
<ScottK> \sh: I think you bring up a good point that unsupported versions after an LTS release should probably stay in LP.
<ScottK> I doubt anyone has thought of this.
<\sh> na...this shouldn't matter...I would like a list where you can see: <pkgname> <latest version in backports> <from release> <to release>
<\sh> so someone who is not dealing with backports, but is a motu, is able to see easily which backports needs some love...
 * \sh is too stupid to patch rsync...
<\sh> what breaks the rsyncd.conf.5 man page
<ScottK> \sh: That makes sense.  Maybe someone will script something up.
<dcordero> hi
<ScottK> Hello dcordero
<\sh> hmm....what is the replacement of inittab today in ubuntu?
<\sh> where do I set the default runlevel?
<stdin> files in /etc/event.d/
<\sh> well /etc/event.d/rc-default guesses what the default is...and when I read it correctly it's always runlevel 2, right?
<stdin> yeah
<stdin> it reads /etc/inittab if it's there and can choose the default from that, but it defaults to 2
<\sh> stdin, yepp
<dcordero> one question about Revu. i have uploaded a package to revu system and i have check that there are errors in my package. I've fix that errors and i have upload again with dput -f but i cant see the new version on revu. I uploaded it arround 1 hour
<ScottK> dcordero: What package?
<dcordero> ninvaders
<ScottK> When you uploaded it, what did dput tell you?
<dcordero> uploaded
<ScottK> OK.
<dcordero> told me that the package was sucesfully uploaded
<dcordero> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ninvaders-0.1.1
<dcordero> this was my first upload
<ScottK> It looks like you'll need a revu admin to have a look.
<DaveMorri1> dcordero: you notice the lintian error with your uploaded package?
<ScottK> DaveMorri1: Lintian doesn't run when you upload, so I'm not sure what you're asking.
<dcordero> yep, i have fixed all the lintian error and now can be build perfectly with pbuilder, that first upload was only for try revu system
<dcordero> now, that i have a new version that i think that is ok, i'd like to upload it for check if it's surely fine. But dont work :/
<DaveMorri1> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ninvaders-0.1.1-0712041110/lintian
<DaveMorri1> ScottK: ^^
<ScottK> DaveMorri1: Ah.  I misread with as when.
<ScottK> Sorry about that.
<DaveMorri1> np
<dcordero> maybe have i change some version number in the package for revu understand it as a new version?
<DaveMorri1> nope, just reupload it
<dcordero> so, i'll try to upload it again
<ScottK> dcordero: If uploading it again doesn't work, Hobbsee may be able to help you (Hobbsee: dcordero has a vanishing upload problem on REVU).
<ScottK> or not.
<dcordero> i think that maybe i know where is the problem
<dcordero> the documentation say ->  dput revu package_version_source.changes
<dcordero> but my changes files is named ninvaders-0.1.1_3-1_i386.changes
<dcordero> without source. Â¿?
<\sh> dcordero, you need a source.changes...which you get when you do a debuild -S -sa e.g.
<\sh> and i386.changes is for binary uploads...which we don't do
<dcordero> pff i am stupid, all the morning with that stupid error
<rocco> hey guys
<rocco> anyone had a problem using a usb keyboard with the gutsy install cd?
<ScottK> rocco: This isn't a support channel, try #ubuntu (but no, I haven't).
<rocco> sorry I'm cbx33
<rocco> just popping in at work
<white> Fujitsu: ?
<white> Fujitsu: don't go to bed yet ;)
<dcordero> is early, 15:38 here :)
<DaveMorri1> norsetto: I've made those changes, thanks for revu it this morning
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: np, I also added those to revu now that is back
<DaveMorri1> yeah I noticed,  now I see why you need 2 revu's since people miss things
<norsetto> DaveMorri1: does the test result makes sense to you? I didn't check it myself
<DaveMorri1> yeah, as it's an example of it failing on things as well as pasing
<DaveMorri1> showing the user what can be done with it
<mruiz> hi all
<mruiz> dholbach, are you busy at the moment ?
<dholbach> mruiz: yeah... is there anything I can help you with?
<norsetto> dholbach: (hi)
<dholbach> hey norsetto
 * dholbach hugs mruiz and norsetto
<dholbach> how are you doing?
 * mruiz hugs dholbach 
<mruiz> dholbach, as I wrote you I want to know about your availability to continue as my mentor :-)
<dholbach> I haven't forgotten the email :)
<mruiz> dholbach, sure
<bddebian> Heya folks
<pochu> waves
<bddebian> Hi pochu
<geser> Hi bddebian
<norsetto_> DaveMorri1: I think you still have README in docs?
<bddebian> Heya geser
<DaveMorri1> oh yeah, I didn't see it when I scanned through, let me fix it quickly
<norsetto> dholbach: sorry daniel, I can't keep a stable wireless for more than few seconds
<dholbach> norsetto: I'm sorry to hear that - do you have wired connection at home?
<norsetto> dholbach: yes, but I have to keep the wireless on since my wife needs it for her portable
<dholbach> norsetto: and it breaks for her too?
 * DaveMorri1 sends norsetto's wife a 10M cat5 cable
<norsetto> there we go again
<norsetto> dholbach: not at all, its just these new ralink modules which are bogus
<dholbach> arg :-/
<soren> Yeah, we should probably give everyone who's stuck with the ralink drivers their money back. :-/
<Wybiral> Hello everyone! Does anyone know why PyODE has TriMesh disabled in gutsy? Or a portable way to solve it? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyode
<ScottK> Wybiral: The why is "Since libode 0.7 shipped within Debian is without trimesh support, trimesh     support disabled for building pyode"
<ScottK> Wybiral: It looks like it's been changed in Hardy.
<ScottK> To solve it for Gutsy you'd need the newer libode too.
<Wybiral> OK cool. So the only solution for gutsy would be to build it all from source?
<white> Fujitsu: sleepy ;)
<Hobbsee> mmmm...sleep
 * Hobbsee expects Fujitsu went to sleep long ago
<ScottK> Wybiral: Or grab the source packages from Hardy and build those locally (that's what I'd do).
<Wybiral> OK. Thanks a bunch ScottK!
<joejaxx> i just got the funniest kde4 ktip on startup
<soren> mok0: Just read your mailing list post..
<soren> mok0: "head -1 debian/changelog | sed -e 's/.*(\(.*:\)\?\(.*\)\(-[^-]*\)\?).*/\2/g'" pretty much does the trick, doesn't it?
<soren> Er... no.
<soren> :)
<soren> head -1 debian/changelog | sed -e 's/.*(\(.*\)).*/\1/g' -e 's/.*://' -e 's/-[^-]*$//'
<soren> That should do it. Just one sed call.
<mok0> soren: :)
<dholbach> what I feel, when I look at things like that is "we need more juicy python love everywhere"
<mok0> soren: yes, but you're using a pipe
<soren> mok0: Ah, no problem.
<mok0> soren: that was the challenge :)
<dholbach> on the day where we have    #!/usr/bin/python    at the top of debian/rules files, I'm happy
<soren> sed sed -n -e '1 s/.*(\(.*\)).*/\1/g' -e '1 s/.*://' -e '1 s/-[^-]*$//' -e '1 p' debian/changelog -e 's/.*(\(.*\)).*/\1/g' -e 's/.*://' -e 's/-[^-]*$//'
<soren> Erk, that went wrong.
<soren> sed -n -e '1 s/.*(\(.*\)).*/\1/g' -e '1 s/.*://' -e '1 s/-[^-]*$//' -e '1 p' debian/changelog
<soren> There you go.
<soren> No pipes, only sweet, sweet sed love. :)
<mok0> dholbach: funny you should mention it: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/pyhelper
<soren> dholbach: You can do that, actually.
<mok0> soren: that's a long and ugly sed expression
<soren> dholbach: Erh, no, sorry, that was changed at some point.
<soren> mok0: I think it's rather pretty, actually. :) YMMV
<dholbach> mok0: you should get in touch with mvo about it - he has some really good ideas
<dholbach> it'd make the world a better place
<mok0> dholbach: I haven't met mto, come here often?
<soren> dholbach: At some point, I belive the Debian policy said that debian/rules just had to be an executable that accepted certain arguments (build, binary-arch, etc.)
<dholbach> mok0: mvo, he's in #ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> soren: ah ok
<soren> dholbach: It was at some point changed to say that it actually had to be a make file :(
<mok0> debian rules is utter and complete {a,mis}use of make
<mok0> doesn
<soren> mok0: Indeed, some people make it so.
<mok0> t make use of make's powers at all. It's basically just used as a wrapper for a shell script. Yuc.
<mok0> make is for dependency checking and compiling files that have changed
<mok0> Now you got me started :-)
<mok0> IMHO any executable that could handle to be called by dpkg-' like "rules install" etc should be acceptable
<soren> mok0: Agreed.
<soren> mok0: I've been meaning to bring it up on debian-devel, but I haven't found sufficient motivation yet.
<dholbach> We'll fork the policy then! More developers by 'fixing' debian/rules!
<mok0> Strangely, I just filed a blueprint at LP last night. I have been thinking about it for some time
<soren> mok0: About this?
<mok0> dholbach: Yeah! :-)
<mok0> soren: writing a python module that would handle everything in rules
<mok0> and debhelper
<soren> cdbs.py? :)
<mok0> soren: yeah, I guess :-)
<soren> Well, if just we could get the policy relaxed a bit (just like you said a minute ago), that would be completely feasible.
<soren> I like debian/rules to be makefiles, though. I just don't see any point forcing it on people, when there's really no technical reason to do so.
<mok0> soren: I think if we come up with a really good alternative, it would not be a problem... at least it shouldn't
<broonie> There was a discussion about this in debian sometime within the past year.
<mok0> soren: as long as it can be any executable script, it wouldn't matter
<soren> broonie: Did Ian perhaps bring it up?
<soren> mok0: Precisely.
<soren> broonie: I discussed it with him in July.
<broonie> Can't remember who it was.
<soren> broonie: We went ballistic when he saw that it now explicitly said it had to be a makefile, so he might very well have brought it up somehwere.
<soren> broonie: Er... "*He* went ballistic"
<mok0> Well, talking can be counter productive. People tend to paint themselves into a corner from principles. It is much better to have something concrete to discuss
<soren> mok0: Yeah, an actual patch for the policy should get the juices going.
<broonie> IIRC it was a patch to policy that someone proposed.
<mok0> soren: "We have this new system, it works really well, is flexible and users like it. You can try it and see what you think. Can we patch the policy??"
<soren> mok0: Nono..
<mok0> soren: whatever. I'm not into politics anyway
<broonie> Ah, yes. Bug 423564 and associated discussion on -policy/-devel - it was Ian who raised it.
<soren> mok0: Don't do that right away. You just start by suggesting that the requirement for debian/rules to be a makefile is absurd and pointless. When everyone has agreed (yeah, right), you bring on the crack.
 * soren wanders off for a short break
<mok0> soren: I'd think you should leave all the doors open, and not insult those who really like make
<effie_jayx> how do I know if tzdata got sycn recently
<broonie> soren: See that policy bug and the mailing list dicussions first, though.
<mok0> soren: but perhaps Debian folks associate Python with Ubuntu and thus hates everything Python in the workflow?
<\sh> time to go home....
<soren> mok0: I'm not saying using makefiles is absurd. I'm saying it's absurd to require them to be makefiles.
<mok0> soren: I agree.
<mok0> soren: I fully respect the design choice to use the existing tools
<soren> mok0: It's good to see another Dane being active in here, by the way :)
<mok0> HÃ¦, ja, hvor er du fra?
<mok0> (switch back to english now)
<soren> Aalborg. Eller faktisk NÃ¸rresundby.
<mok0> Are you doing this as a part of your work?
 * MenZa aer mok0
<mok0> Hej MenZa
<MenZa> HallÃ¸j :)
<soren> mok0: This is my job, yes.
<mok0> soren: are you working for Canonical?
<MenZa> mok0, hvorfor er du ikke i #ubuntu-dk :(?
<soren> I am.
<mok0> MenZa: (I will stick to english due to etiquette) I have the impression that most of that work is translation, and it doesn
<mok0> t interest me that much
<MenZa> #ubuntu-dk isn't work; #ubuntu-dk is a community. :)
<mok0> MenZa: When is a good time to visit there? Evenings?
<MenZa> Whenever. :)
<MenZa> soren's there, too
<MenZa> We were recently approved as an official LoCo team.
<mok0> MenZa: OK, you've got me convinced, I'll show up :-)
<MenZa> Great, mok0!
<mok0> MenZa: ... LoCo.. isn't that translation & such?
<MenZa> LoCo = Local Community. :)
<mok0> MenZa: Ah
<MenZa> You're thinking of l10n; localisation.
<MenZa> (or i18n, internationalisation)
<mok0> MenZa: Yeah, I guess
<MenZa> :)
<mok0> Where are you at, MenZa? I'm in Ãrhus
 * mok0 hopes MenZa has nothing to do with that boring club of boneheads known as "mensa"..
<slangasek> mok0: the insistence on make for debian/rules has nothing to do with python, it has to do with wanting to be able to use features of make to detect support for various tentative, new features of policy, and with wanting to define a particular baseline for what a developer needs to know to understand how any package in the archive is being built
<mok0> slangasek: What features are you referring to?
<mdomsch> Well, now I know why my package builds for gutsy aren't picking up dpkg triggers
<mdomsch> http://pastebin.domsch.com/17
<slangasek> mok0: detecting make targets in order to handle build-depends better on buildds
<mdomsch> gutsy dpkg knows about triggers, but gutsy dh_installdeb doesn't :-(
<mok0> slangasek: That's a noble goal. But I don't see why that puts a limitation on debian/rules
<MenZa> mok0, Kolding. :)
<mok0> slangasek: you can still have make driving the buildds
<slangasek> mok0: er, you don't understand.  how are you going to use make to detect the presence of support for a particular make target in a package, if debian/rules isn't a makefile?
<mok0> slangasek: I'd think you could extract the build-deps from debian/control
<\sh> lalalala
<\sh> I have a new job ....
<mok0> slangasek: You're probably right, I will have to study the new ideas before making comments
<geser> \sh: that went fast
<Riddell> any cdbs experts know a target that would run some code after `make install` but before dh_install etc?
<slangasek> mok0: this is discussed extensively on debian-devel about 4-5 months back (with a subject line of something about "dpkg" or "build-depends-indep"); I would encourage you to read the archive to understand the issue
<mok0> slangasek: you must be talking about a completely new set of targets
<mok0> slangasek: Thanks, I will look it up.
<mok0> slangasek: Of course, dependency checking can be implemented in a Python based rules system. Scons does it
<slangasek> mok0: yes, it's about wanting to be able to transition builds to use the optional build-arch target, which the buildds can't rely on being present during a transitional period
<slangasek> this is not about "dependency checking"
<mok0> slangasek: got it
<slangasek> this is about "reliably detecting whether a package supports a target of a particular name, so that we know whether a package fails to build because it's broken, or whether it fails to build because it doesn't support the new target"
<slangasek> also, "scons == eew"
<mok0> slangasek: I am not familiar with how the buildds works
 * mok0 agrees
<mok0> slangasek: Perhaps I'm being insistant , but I maintain that it would be possible to design a tool better suited for the purpose.
<azeem> slangasek: but waf is python as well!
<mok0> azeem: waf?
<leonel> ScottK: hello !  long time  no talk ..   new  Squirrelmail Version  only bugfixes  no CVE's
<\sh> geser, yeah had luckk...and now home :)
<soren> Riddell: I think that's binary-install/foo ?
<Riddell> soren: yeah, but this is something which affects all the binary packages not just one at a time
<DaveMorri1> you tried binary-install:: ?
<mok0> slangasek: I will draft an interface, anyways, then people can look at it, comment & criticize
<soren> Riddell: Hm...
<gurthang> super
<soren> Riddell: common-binary-post-install-arch ?
<soren> Riddell: No, that won't work.
<gurthang> riddell has a riddle
<gurthang> like bilbo or gollum
<soren> Riddell: common-post-build ?
<Riddell> I've a feeling I tried that one soren, let me try again
 * RainCT wonders wheter stuff in http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php should be fixed or just left for the Debian maintainers?
<soren> Riddell: Someone should make the order in which these targets get invoked more explicit for the most common cases (e.g. debhelper + autotools)
<keescook> Fujitsu: yeah, I'm not sure why that is.  we switched to the "bound" branch for the "master", and something may have gotten confused.  Hopefully it'll only be with "past" stuff.  (I suspect it decided jdstrand's was the master, and got confused about my past merges with you)
<Riddell> soren: exactly what I've been thinking for the last couple of hours
<soren> Riddell: So how is that coming along? :)
<Riddell> soren: not looking good, it's passed the point where it needs to be run
<soren> Riddell: I meant writing that document :)
<Riddell> soren: that seems only to run it after installing the indep packages
<Riddell> mm, I don't think I'm the best person to be documenting cdbs much as I'd love for there to be better docs
<soren> Riddell: binary-install/(name of first package) will get called first, though. :)
<Riddell> soren: good plan
<Riddell> if inelegant
<soren> Riddell: This is probably better:
<soren> $(patsubst %,binary-install/%,$(DEB_ALL_PACKAGES)) :: common-binary-install
<soren>  
<soren> common-binary-install:
<soren>     Do stuff
<Riddell> won't that run it once for each package?
<soren>    touch common-binary-install
<soren> Not if you touch a file called common-binary-install and don't declare it .PHONY
<soren> cdbs ought to have a target like that, though, but from what I can tell, it doesn't.
<Riddell> right.  presumably I need to clean it up too
<soren> Good catch. Yes.
<Riddell> good to know it's not just me missing something obvious
<mok0> boring
<soren> mok0: :)
<mok0> Apparently, python-debian and python-deb822 are mutually exclusive. Which one is recommended?
<mok0> python-debian, probably. It contains lots more
<jonnymind> Hello everyone
<soren> mok0: You'll likely be happier using python-debian, yes.
<soren> mok0: Unless, of course, you're trying to parse e-mails and such.
<james_w> mok0: python-debian now incorporates python-deb822.
<mok0> james_w: yes, I noticed. Perhaps deb822 should be deprecated
<james_w> mok0: the package?
<mok0> james_w: yes
<james_w> yes, it should be removed at some point.
<mok0> james_w: or, deb822 removed from python-debian
<mok0> james_w: Is it appropriate to file a bug against python-debian, and not that it should have "Replaces: python-deb822" ??
<mok0> s/not/note
<nibblesmx> is this the right channel for asking on a bug report?
<mok0> #ubuntu-bugs?
<soren> mok0: No, that would probably not be appropriate.
<nibblesmx> mok0: thanks
<mok0> soren: why not?
<soren> mok0: Does it replace any files in python-deb822?
<soren> mok0: Rephrasing: Can they coexist?
<mok0> soren: yes, it contains deb822.py it seems
<soren> In the same directory?
<mok0> mok0: no they are exclusive, one replaces the other
<soren> mok0: Oh, it already says: Replaces: python-deb822 ?
<mok0> soren: rephrasing, intstalling one removes the other
<soren> mok0: Well, that happens *because* it already has Replaces, Provides, Conflicts: python-deb822.
<mok0> soren: ...but you can still install deb822 when the other is installed, it just removes it
<soren> mok0: Huh?
<mok0> soren: If I have python-debian installed, and I then install python-deb822, it will remove python-debian
<soren> mok0: Not on my system.
<mok0> soren: hmm.
<soren> mok0: python-debian "Provides: python-deb822".
<soren> ..hence python-deb822 is already installed (virtually).
<Ubulette> anyone for a 2nd review for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=prism  ?
<soren> I apologise for just saying no to your original question. I thought you just wanted to state "Replaces: " because you thought that python-debian was a better choice than python-deb822.
<mok0> soren: it does on my system:  The following packages will be REMOVED:   python-debian The following NEW packages will be installed:   python-deb822
<soren> mok0: You're still running stale, old gutsy, are you?
<mok0> soren: yep
<soren> mok0: There's your problem. :)
<mok0> :) ok
<soren> mok0: It's already fixed in hardy.
<soren> python-deb822 has even been removed from the archive.
<soren> Replaces: is a bit misunderstood, really.
<mok0> soren: go on
<soren> If foo says that it "Replaces: bar", and bar is installed and you then install foo, foo will be allowed to replace files that bar has already installed.
<soren> That's what "Replaces: " means.
<mok0> soren: Ah, it's not "This package supercedes that other one"
<soren> You're telling dpkg that you are aware that this package replaces from files in the other package, and that you are ok with that fact.
<soren> mok0: Not on its own, no.
<soren> mok0: To do that, you add: "Replaces: foo, Conflicts: foo, Provides: foo"
<mok0> soren: but why can' t the two packages co-exist, then?
<jonnymind> ppl, a fast question: a source pkg must be built by make -f rules,
<jonnymind> but may rules call i.e. bash scripts?
<soren> mok0: I asked if they could coexist because if you were asking about adding only Replaces (implying it wasn't already there). If they could already coexist, and you wanted to tell dpkg that it replaced files in the other package, you'd be lying.
<soren> jonnymind: Sure.
<jonnymind> k
 * jonnymind was starting sweating cold.
<mok0> soren: I was incorrect in my assumption on how Replaces: works
<soren> mok0: Most people are :)
<soren> Scott (Keybuk) wrote a long rant about this some time ago.
<mok0> soren: where can I read that? :)
<soren> mok0: I'm looking for it. Hang on.
<james_w> mok0: they could co-exist, as the files aren't shared, but python-deb822 is no longer maintained, so we don't want it, all updates go in to python-debian.
<james_w> (although they might try and create the same files in postinst, I can't remember)
<james_w> but as deb822 is removed we can forget about it.
<mok0> james_w: okay, but then I find it a bit surprising that apt-get allows you to replace python-debian with python-deb822.
<soren> mok0: I'm afraid I can't find it.
<mok0> soren: np
<james_w> mok0: if you are telling it to install 'python-deb822', and you have zero things installed that depend on python-debian, and zero or more things installed that depend on deb822 it is still satisfied, and so will do what you tell it, i.e. install deb822.
<mok0> james_w: yes. It doesn't protect me from myself :-)
<james_w> I think a 'Supersedes:' field would solve this problem.
<mok0> james_w: exactly
<mok0> james_w: then apt-get could warn you
 * soren needs dinner
<mok0> soren: velbekomme
<soren> ;)
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<bddebian> Heya TheMuso
<geser> Hi TheMuso
<geser> TheMuso: I guess after your glib1.2 rebuild uploads you are near the top of the uploader stats :)
<geser> joejaxx should update his stats page
<TheMuso> geser: Probably. I still have more to go though.
<joejaxx> geser: i did not know anyone looked at it anymore :P
<RainCT> is there a way to rename manpages (with cdbs) beside copying them?
<mok0> RainCT: explain
<RainCT> mok0: I've a tarball that comes with manpages with names like "bb.py.1", and I want to install those with another game (like for ex. "bubbros-server.6")
<mdomsch> Updating System BIOS when running Ubuntu: http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/12/05/37446.aspx
<RainCT> s/game/name
<proppy> hi
<mok0> RainCT: Perhaps you can specify <from> <to> in package.manpages(?)
<RainCT> might be, but I can't find any doc for .manpages.. well, will try it then if nobody knows if it works or not
<RainCT> thanks
<mok0> RainCT: documentation should be in dh_installman
<RainCT> ah ok. thanks
<mok0> RainCT: Ultimately in /usr/bin/dh_installman :-)
<RainCT> hehe
<G0SUB> hello, is there any policy about putting stuff in the multiverse? is it permissible to put _any_ non-free app, that can be redistributed ?
<mok0> G0SUB: Don't know for sure, I think so
<G0SUB> mok0: hmm
<jussio1> G0SUB: what are you thinking of?
<G0SUB> jussio1: some guy was talking about writing random non-free apps that depend on sun-java and put them on ubuntu multiverse
<jussio1> ahhh
<calc> many java apps can be compiled using gcj now so don't necessarily have to go into multiverse
<geser> unless they have a non-free license
<calc> geser: oh yea unless of that :)
<calc> depending on sun-java also makes them go into multiverse
<G0SUB> geser: those are non-free apps, of course
<mok0> Of course you can always regenerate a .java file from a .class file :-)
<calc> if they are free they can go into universe if they can be compiled with gcj
<calc> i misread the part about the non-free license as well :)
<mok0> But must be open source
<calc> free being libre not gratis
<geser> G0SUB: it is getting tried now if there is some other requirement beside redistributable to get into multiverse. someone packaged a non-free windows game which can be run in wine
<calc> iirc the real test is they have to pass dfsg
<G0SUB> geser: that's right ...
<G0SUB> geser: that's exactly what I want to know
<G0SUB> calc: do apps in our multiverse pass the dfsg ?
<geser> G0SUB: wait for the outcome of this test
<calc> G0SUB: i don't think so, but i don't recall what multiverse requirements are
<geser> G0SUB: if they pass the dfsg they are suitable for main/universe
<G0SUB> geser: right
 * calc looks to see if he can find a list of req for multiverse
<G0SUB> actually, the thing is ... there is this FOSS conference in India, called FOSS.in
<calc> some stuff in multiverse belongs in universe already (wrt java stuff) but probably not that much
<geser> calc: it must at least be redistributable
<G0SUB> some sun guy came and talked here about packaging java apps for ubuntu, but he want on to talk about glassfish and how one can write non-free apps and push them to our multiverse
<calc> geser: that much is a given :)
<G0SUB> i was thinking about objecting to that idea
<calc> G0SUB: sounds objectionable even if it is allowable ;)
<calc> recommending people write non-free apps is bad
<G0SUB> calc: exactly.
<G0SUB> calc: that too in a FOSS coneference, masquarading as a foss speaker
<calc> lol :(
<G0SUB> calc: check the slides
<G0SUB> http://blogs.sun.com/arungupta/resource/confs/foss.in-2007-java-apps-for-ubuntu.pdf
<calc> i may not be looking in the right place but i don't see a clear definition of multiverse
<G0SUB> hmm
<calc> important point
<calc> glassfish doesn't run on open java yet does it?
<calc> if the apps depend on glassfish and it is in multiverse they will be in multiverse anyway, but he should have pointed out that soon open java will be in ubuntu main and that users probably want to be able to have the potential to be on an ubuntu cd
<calc> i don't recall glassfish license but iirc it is primarily in multiverse due to its dependency on sun java, which will be resolved when open java is finally useful and available in main
<Flare183> I'm supposed to sign the DEB file or the tar.gz file?
<Flare183> Which one?
<mok0> Flare183: neither
<Flare183> oh
<mok0> Flare183: you sign the .dsc and the .changes files
<Flare183> oh kk
<Flare183> gotcha
<mok0> Flare183: but if you use debuild you don't have to worry about it
<mok0> Flare183: but look at debsign
<Flare183> But what if i am going to upload a package to my ppa and it comes from fiesty and I am using gusty?
<mok0> Flare183: the distribution is defined in debian/changelog
<Flare183> oh ok
<mok0> Flare183: you upload a source package and it gets compiled on the ppa
<mok0> Flare183: it doesn't matter which system you used to construct the source package
<Flare183> oh ok.. i understand for the most part
<Flare183> ok
<mok0> Flare183: the ppa will look in the changelog to see which distro it has to compile for
<Flare183> oh
<Flare183> ok
<mok0> Flare183: F.ex. I build hardy packages in gutsy :-)
<mok0> source packages
<Flare183> cool well i am building fiesty packages >> to gusty
<calc> i build them all in chroots :)
<mok0> calc: of course, me too
<geser> Flare183: but it would be good if you could test that your package builds in gutsy before uploading
<mok0> calc: but it doesn't matter for a source package
<Flare183> ok
<jonnymind> strange...
<calc> mok0: well as long as you only build a source package, which means you may not have tested building the package
<jonnymind> I have the source self-compiling package, but I wanted to print a banner after make
<calc> to actually build the package at least for hardy on gutsy you may need versions of packages that aren't in gutsy :)
<jonnymind> But it doesn't seem to work:
<mok0> calc: you can test the package in pbuilder, but you don't need to build the source package there
<calc> yea
<jonnymind> Someone may tell me what's wrong?
<jonnymind> cmake $FALCON_SRC_TREE && make || func_errors
<jonnymind> func_complete
<Fujitsu> keescook: I've just merged your branch again, and it seems to be more sane.
 * calc never much liked pbuilder so made his own scripts
 * Fujitsu hugs sbuild.
<mok0> jonnymind: oh! no! you're using cmake
<jonnymind> Oh yes, I do.
<jonnymind> Is there a problem with that?
<calc> i frequently need to go in mangle stuff which pbuilder didn't seem well suited for (at least when i wrote my own scripts)
<jonnymind> I was simply going NUTS with automake,
<mok0> jonnymind: it's so rarely used and completely non-standard
<calc> automake is your friend :)
<jonnymind> and when I splitted the projects in 5 svn brances I had to preserve my mental stability.
<calc> isn't cmake that crazy KDE thing?
 * mok0 loves automake
<jonnymind> Moreover, it works on window.
<mok0> jonnymind: who cares :-)
<calc> iirc the reason KDE gave for switching to cmake was windows also
<jonnymind> mok0: the ones that repspect those users that haven't still seen the light.
<calc> of course no one runs free/open software on windows (other than firefox) anyway so its a bit pointless ;-)
<jonnymind> (other then myself, which needed falcon at work)
<jonnymind> We do.
<jonnymind> And we run financial services servers.
<jonnymind> With open source software.
<jonnymind> However, cmake is quite great; other than that;
<jonnymind> let's say
<Flare183> ok hold up
<jonnymind> make || func_errors
<jonnymind> func_complete
<mok0> jonnymind: anyway, in your statement above you mix cmake and make
<Flare183> I am going to modify the beryl source packages and upload them to my ppa, when I go to download them from the ubuntu packages what should I download?
<jonnymind> I tired without doing that; same result.
<Flare183> the source packages, dsc, or the changelog?
<jonnymind> make is succesfull...
<jonnymind> yet nor || function nor the following seems to get executed.
<mok0> jonnymind: It's hard to help from your description, why dont you pastebin it
<jonnymind> good idea.
<jonnymind> http://kde.pastey.net/78533
<mok0> jonnymind: line 69, do you run cmake on a directory?
<jonnymind> yes; it is created by the script relative to itself
<mok0> jonnymind: what about line 46, does the script get past that?
<Flare183> the source packages, dsc, or the changelog?
<mok0> 49
<jonnymind> so it seems.
<mok0> line 49, sorry
<mok0> It looks strange
<jonnymind> Uhm
<jonnymind> you are right; it gets past that line, but doesn't write it
<jonnymind> that's the thing.
<jonnymind> fixed :-)
<mok0> jonnymind: Ah, its being echo
<mok0> d
<jonnymind> 've been up for too much :-(
<mok0> hehe
<mdomsch> popey, thanks for the blog comments
 * imbrandon yawns
<imbrandon> moins all
<ScottK> mdomsch: I've got a Dell question for you, if you have a moment?
<ScottK> I saw a Latitude X300 that someone had at a meeting yesterday and it looks like just about exactly the size I'm looking for.
<ScottK> I don't find that on the Dell web site.  Would you mind pointing me at the current equivalent?
<mdomsch> ScottK, I'm looking
<ScottK> mdomsch: Thanks.
<mdomsch> how big a screen is that?  Looks small
<ScottK> Dunno that measured size, but it is very small.
<mdomsch> probably the Latitude D400 (our 12" notebook)
<ScottK> Thanks.  I'll have a look.
<mdomsch> though I really like my XPS M1330 13.3"
<Ubulette> if someone wants something to review: bug 174219, bug 174243
<mdomsch> sorry, D430 is latest in that 12" family
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174219 in xulrunner "Please merge xulrunner 1.8.1.11-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174219
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174243 in ruby-gnome2 "Please sync ruby-gnome2 0.16.0-10 (universe) from Debian Sid (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174243
<Ubulette> or prism on REVU (for which I really don't understand why no one is interested)
<ScottK> mdomsch: Right.  Found that one.  Is that one of the models you're providing Ubuntu based BIOS updates for?
<mdomsch> 1330 - yes
<mdomsch> you can even boot the livecd and run the steps and do it from there
<ScottK> mdomsch: Cool.  It may be time for me to get one of those.
 * ScottK goes and looks at the budget.
<popey> ooo hi mdomsch
<Flare183> ok i signed it now use dput?
 * macd really wants fingerprint reader working on M2300
<macd> it worked, then came a bios update and poof
<mdomsch> ScottK, you can even boot the livecd and run the steps and do the update from there
<JanC> is anybody working on the flashplugin-nonfree package: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/173890/ ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173890 in flashplugin-nonfree "flashplugin-nonfree fails to install... new version?" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ScottK> JanC: I have it on my list to look at, but haven't done it yet.  If you want to take a shot at it, feel free.
<JanC> I don't know how, just had a user complain about it  ;)
<ScottK> Ah.
<JanC> any idea how long it will take?
<ScottK> Generally bugs that aren't assigned to someone aren't being worked on actively.
<ScottK> No.
<JanC> well, he's using gnash now  :P
<JanC> but that won't work in all cases
 * Fujitsu suspects that the best idea is to convince Adobe to be sane with their releases.
 * ScottK just tries to avoid using Flash period.
<JanC> so do I, but sometimes something useful is a inside flash file
<JanC> from what I understand the installation system changed?
<JanC> oh, and Debian has newer versions of this package in testing / unstable / experimental
<ScottK> Yes.  Every time Adobe releases a new version, the package has to be updated.
<JanC> latest version in experimental is dated "Sat, 22 Sep 2007 19:07:47 +0200 ", so probably not new enough to be fixed
<ScottK> We don't generally sync from Experimental.
<ScottK> Usually stuff that's there is there for a scary reason.
<imbrandon> JanC: the md5's likely just need updating, i'll take a look at it this evening
<JanC> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=454366
<ubotu> Debian bug 454366 in flashplugin-nonfree "flashplugin-nonfree: New upstream release (9.0.115.0)" [Normal,Fixed]
<JanC> I'l link this to the Ubutnu bug
<JanC> imbrandon & ScottK : thanks for looking at it  ã
<ScottK> imbrandon: Thanks.
<imbrandon> ScottK: np
<imbrandon> infact looking at it now, thats exactly what it is, i'll update it here shortly
<imbrandon> but will probably take $days for a backport
<JanC> I hope this will not only go into backports?
<imbrandon> it will goto hardy and traditionaly -backports , yes
<JanC> it makes the package unusable...?
<imbrandon> one of the pitfalls of using binary only software :(
<JanC> (and apparently Adept hides the error message from the package)
<jdong> imbrandon: you dont' think we can talk pitti into a SRU exception for this?
<jdong> imbrandon: it leaves flashplugin-nonfree completely nonfunctional to new installers right?
<imbrandon> jdong: maybe, but i wasent gonna promis it :)
<jdong> hehe :)
<jdong> I think we can make a good case to backport it , then copy the backport to -updates upon verification
<imbrandon> yea
<Kmos> there is a new standards-version.. 3.7.3 :-)
<imbrandon> Kmos: yes for some days now
<JanC> jdong: that's exactly what happened to this guy; installed Kubuntu and flash didn't work, unfortunately without an error message  :-/
<Kmos> imbrandon: need to check the news
<Kmos> :)
<jdong> JanC: right; I definitely think we can be granted an exception for this to go into -updates
<imbrandon> i'm updating it now, give me a few to atleaste get it in hardy lol
<jdong> imbrandon: FASTER FASTER!!!!!111
<jdong> :D
<imbrandon> grrr who ASSIGNED motu ?
<JanC> someone named "Serge de Souze"   ã
<JanC> Souza
<imbrandon> hrm we dont base ours off the debian version ?
<imbrandon> strange
<imbrandon> never been merged
<MagicFab> Question about PPAs... does the PPA facility provide a mean to make an OpenPGP package signing key available ?
<MagicFab> (if that makes sense)
<imbrandon> no
<Fujitsu> MagicFab: It is scheduled for the next couple of releases, I believe.
<white> Fujitsu: awake already?
<Fujitsu> white: I am, but at work.
<white> :)
<imbrandon> hrm JanC / jdong , it looks to be the same url and md5, e.g. works here
<imbrandon> can someone verify
<JanC> imbrandon: the guy that posted a patch to the bug has another MD5 ?
<MagicFab> Fujitsu, tx
<imbrandon> right but i think he had a corrupt download or something, the md5 is matching here
<JanC> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10727595/newflashplugin.patch
<imbrandon> yes yea i see that
<imbrandon> but the actual download shows diffrent
<JanC> weird, at least 4 people in Ubuntu & 1 in Debian saw this MD5 mismatch error?
<imbrandon> wget this file
<imbrandon> http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/current/install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz
<imbrandon> and run md5sum on it
<imbrandon> hrm actualy , i might have been mistaken
 * imbrandon looks again
<JanC> I get the new MD5 in that patch, not the old one?
<imbrandon> right, my mistake, thanks
<norsetto> Anybody can give a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=888 ? One advocation and is ready to go.
<jonnymind> ppl,
<jonnymind> Suppose I have a source package that works and that may build the final tree in any location (e.g. --prefix)
<imbrandon> JanC / jdong : uploaded
<JanC> imbrandon: \o/
<JanC> thank you
<jonnymind> Would be possible use that package tree to do the deb source-to-binary packages instead of the chroot?
<imbrandon> np, jdong you wanna do the pitti convincing ?
<jonnymind> I mean, I know it CAN be done. Does it break any policy?
<RAOF> jonnymind: I'm not entirely sure what you're asking.
<jonnymind> I got a source packaae
<jonnymind> rules creates it with an arbitrary prefix
<jonnymind> i.e. in a dist/ dir inside the source tree
<jonnymind> control file(s) read things from dist/usr, dist/lib etc.
<jonnymind> is that ok?
<RAOF> So you're installing all the build-dependencies to dist/usr, etc?
<RAOF> jonnymind: The binaries built from a source package never get installed to $prefix/whatever - the rules file (usually) changes DESTDIR in the install target so they end up in $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/$prefix/whatever
<jonnymind> Ok, that was what I was asking.
<RAOF> The chroot is mainly there so that (1) you don't have to clutter your main environment with thousands of dev packages and (2) so that the package doesn't inadvertantly link to wrong libraries.
<jonnymind> So I can (or have) to build them in ${pwd}/debian/usr...
<RAOF> Yes.  Although $(CURDIR) is the varaible you're actually after :)
<jonnymind> Ok.
<imbrandon> and $(DESTDIR)
<jonnymind> Ok, from the descs in the docs I beleived I had i.e. to chroot to a place and THEN build with DESTDIR=/usr from there.
<jonnymind> I see that's a more general case (i.e some software wants to know where they are supposed to be installed).
<RAOF> Yup.  Quite a lot of software will build in $prefix/lib/mylibdir to load plugins, for example.
<jdong> imbrandon: haha sure, pitti-stalker engaged.
<jonnymind> So, it depends on software, not on policy. I get it.
<RAOF> Indeed.  Although if you do something different you'll have a hard time getting it sponsored, I imagine.
<RAOF> All the tools (debhelper, cdbs, etc) assume you end up with the package files installed somewhere in debian/pkgname (or debian/tmp, then moved do debian/pkgname).
<RAOF> If you do something vastly different, you'll need to build the .deb & associated control files manually (ie: don't do something vastly different :))
<jonnymind> debian/tmp or /tmp/debian?
<RAOF> $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
<RAOF> The build process should never stick anything outside the build tree.
<jonnymind> I agree.
<RAOF> IE: *everything* is relative to $(CURDIR), no absolute paths.
<jonnymind> My software has a loose dependency with the installation path too, but it's overridable so that it can differ.
<RAOF> I'm not sure if that's actual policy, but again, don't expect anything else to be sponsored :)
<RAOF> jonnymind: It depends on both --prefix *and* DESTDIR?
<RAOF> This seems wrong.
<jonnymind> So, you can install it in $(CURDIR)/anywhere and tell it that it will end up installed in /usr
<jonnymind> you can. You don't have to.
<RAOF> Yup.  that's what --prefix is about ;)
<jonnymind> That's a bit more complex:
<jonnymind> I created a temporary build environment that can override system installation.
<jonnymind> As it's a language, it may be installed system wide while you're developing i.e. a new VM.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> wrong tab
<jonnymind> Forget something and you'll screw.
<jonnymind> So, I made so that the language and all its system can be runtime-environment configured to override installation settings.
<jonnymind> Just load an automatically built script and you're free to experiment with your personal version, without having to mess up with the official distro.
<jonnymind> So, when  I install it in /my/personal/env I still say it will end up in /usr one day.
<jonnymind> and when I decide it's time, I just copy there and run it from a clean environment.
 * norsetto headache is not getting any better
<jonnymind> I call that *respect* for the developers willing to join and experiment.
<jonnymind> Anyhow I am digressing. The build will work the *old way* if necessary.
<jonnymind> Or better, it runs the *usual way* by default. You just got a "hacking mode" if you need it.
<jonnymind> ....
<jonnymind> It seems I made some void around me... :-)
<RAOF> No, I just thought your question was answered, and I didn't really have anything to say about your elaboration.
<jonnymind> :-) yes, you have been very supportive, and mine was just self-talk. Thanks.
<`nobody> hi. i'm looking into repackaging the "barry" package from what was done by the original maintainer in the "debian way" to make it conform to ubuntu packaging guidelines, and i'm not sure i got the version number right: the original is 0.11-1, and I think it would become 0.11-1-1ubuntu1, right?
<DarkMageZ> `nobody, 0.11-1ubuntu1
<imbrandon> `nobody: are you talking from debian or upstream? upstream should be punished for releases -1
<tonyyarusso> If I'm making major changes to my blog, is there a way to prevent Planet spammage?
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: maybe not
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso: dont change the timestamp on the rss feed :P
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso: or deactivate your feed temp
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: will it do weird things when I reactivate the feed?
<`nobody> it's not really in debian, but i guess also not really upstream. it's GPL code, from netdirect inc., but this Chris Frey dude made it available on sourceforge along with .deb packages.
<imbrandon> depends on how you change the rss, but it shouldent
<tonyyarusso> hmm, okay
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: fyi, I'm going to be switching from WordPress to Drupal, if that helps
<imbrandon> `nobody: then it should be as DarkMageZ said, you go off upstream
<`nobody> so 0.11-1ubuntu1 it is?
<imbrandon> did upstream release 0.11 ? if so and its not in debian it will be 0.11-0ubuntu1
<`nobody> ok I see. the package source file is named as 0.11, and only the changelog mentions a -1, but all their versions end with at least -1.
<imbrandon> well kinda
<imbrandon> you dont go off their packages, you work with the upstream source, 0.11 , and if its not in debian you use -0ubuntuX if it is in debian you use -YubuntuX ( Y == debian revision , X is uubutn revision )
<imbrandon> this is all explained in the package guide also
<`nobody> i was reading the package guide, but i found the part about the version was a little unclear
<imbrandon> i think because you are trying to use a middle man, dont
<imbrandon> upstream
<imbrandon> is the source
<`nobody> i checked and i am using the upstream source. the page on netdirect points over to the sourceforge page i am getting the source from
<imbrandon> right, the tarbal , you are looking at something with debian/ in it
<`nobody> yes
<`nobody> that's what i'm editing -- the changelog file.
<imbrandon> debian/ should not be included in the release tarbal, thats bad mojo and nees to be fixed pstream and or repacked
<`nobody> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-06
<norsetto> g'night all
<Gunner_Sr> does anyone know where I can find a xpmlib package?
<Gunner_Sr> I tried apt-get, and no luck...
<crimsun> ?
<crimsun> more context would be useful.
<crimsun> i.e., libxpm4 certainly exists.
<Gunner_Sr> crimsum: let me check that...
<Gunner_Sr> crimsum: okay, already installed.
<Gunner_Sr> crimsum: is it installed in a non-standard location, as I am autoconfiguring and it says cannot find X?
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: is it installed in a non-standard location, as I am autoconfiguring and it says cannot find X?
<crimsun> hmm?
 * Gunner_Sr sorry crimsun
<crimsun> if you're attempting to compile something that requires xpm, you need libxpm-dev installed.
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: let me check as well
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: got it.
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: it was already installed.
<crimsun> so please pastebin whatever command you're attempting that generates the error(s)
<Gunner_Sr> okay, how does pastebin work?
<Pici> !paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Gunner_Sr> Here it is: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47064/
<jonnymind> Great. I have a stable automatic source packager.
<jonnymind> All I have to do now is to debianize it...
 * Gunner_Sr hiya jonnymind!
<jonnymind> yo
<crimsun> Gunner_Sr: use the metapackage, libx11-dev
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: okay, let me try that, thx
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: also installed, this is weird?
<crimsun> Gunner_Sr: check config.log for where it's bailing
<crimsun> it's likely an extension
<jonnymind> I have already created separate debs from the compiled source (deranged in the live development space), and it was lint, so it should be fast.
<`nobody> I have another question: I've packaged a patched version of network-manager-vpnc to include a patch that me and some coworkers were needing -- support for saving group passwords. I've commented on the open bug about this too, but would that kind of stuff usually go in the next release or in the current?  what are the guidelines about when the bugs are being fixed?
<jonnymind> I hope to have the deb things (source + binaries) tomorrow. Should I upload all the packages or only the source deb?
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: cannot find a header called X11/Intrinsic.h?
<imbrandon> `nobody: normaly only the next release
<`nobody> ok
<crimsun> Gunner_Sr: libxt-dev
<`nobody> that's fine -- i heard it needed approval/advocacy from developers too?
<giskard> `nobody, please send it also to upstream
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: getting it now, I think that could be it.
<crimsun> imbrandon: I think you forgot to update debian/config for the new flashplugin-nonfree
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: thanks, that worked!!
<Gunner_Sr> ls
<imbrandon> `nobody: send to upstream and the bug you speak of please subscribe ( not assign ) ubuntu universe sponsors
<imbrandon> crimsun: likely, i'll look now
<`nobody> ok, i'll look at that.
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: I go to make, now and get X11/Xmu/CurUtil.h: No such file or directory
<imbrandon> crimsun: ahh yea i certainly did, thanks for the catch, fixing now
<RAOF> Gah.  Is it a bug for arch: all packages to FTBFS on AMD64?
<crimsun> imbrandon: np, thanks.
<crimsun> Gunner_Sr: libxmu-headers
<crimsun> Gunner_Sr: please use apt-file or http://packages.ubuntu.com
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: okay, thans.
<Gunner_Sr> crimsun: okay, thanks.
<StevenK> RAOF: I doubt it.
<StevenK> RAOF: Given only the i386 buildds will touch arch: all packages
<jonnymind> I sign off. See you tomorrow, hopefully with a package :-(
<jonnymind> *:-)
<jonnymind> Goodnight.
<RAOF> StevenK: Yeah, fair enough.  It's merely annoying :)
<`nobody> imbrandon: the patch wasn't written by me but by some developer on Redhat/Fedora, all I've done was repackage network-manager-vpnc with that patch that works from 0.6.4 to 0.7.0. The bug is already known upstream and some patches have been proposed, but the bug isn't closed yet. I'm subscribing ubuntu universe sponsors to the launchpad bug now
<Gunner_Sr> jonnymind: seeya
<imbrandon> `nobody: okies, sounds like a good plane
<imbrandon> plan*
<giskard> `nobody,  what is the answer of the upstream regarding this patch?
<imbrandon> crimsun: fix uploaded, again thanks fo the catch
<imbrandon> jdong: btw if you already poked pitti you might re-poke reguarding ubuntu2 :)
<crimsun> imbrandon: np.
<`nobody> giskard: unclear. the bug is still marked NEEDINFO, and last comment was on Nov 17, actually, the more i look and the less sure I am that this exact patch was posted. I'll have to md5 them or something to check
<crimsun> hah
<giskard> `nobody, i think you have to poke upstream
<crimsun> imbrandon: you get dibs on bug 174276!
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174276 in ubuntu "flashplugin-nonfree issue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174276
 * imbrandon looks
<`nobody> i'll comment and attach the patch to the bug, just to be sure.
<imbrandon> crimsun: gee thanks :)
<crimsun> imbrandon: no prob.
<imbrandon> hrm honetly i think its a bug that the package installs even if the md5/download fails
<imbrandon> leading to situations like this
<imbrandon> but obviously it was put there for a reason
<crimsun> well, arguably the wrapper/package itself is a bug
<imbrandon> yea
<keescook> Fujitsu: probably better to do a requestsync for sing since that's the only change in ubuntu.  :)
<imbrandon> i'm wondering what the resoning behind letting the package install though'
<crimsun> imbrandon: it can block other essential packages from installing if it fails
<crimsun> imbrandon: that's overkill, IMO
<imbrandon> ahh
<crimsun> I didn't make that change in the source package, but I concur with its semantics in just that instance
<imbrandon> yea, i agree there but it also causes this
<imbrandon> heh
<crimsun> honestly, we ought to kill the package
<imbrandon> it would just get imported from debian ( unless blacklisted )
<crimsun> one con, however, is that doing so is only a benefit for firefox
<crimsun> AFAIK, neither opera nor konqueror provide a facility to install the latest stable non-Free Flash plugin
<imbrandon> i think konq does now, leaste in kubuntu
<imbrandon> i would have to confim though
<crimsun> firefox, however, has that plugin finder or whatnot
<crimsun> perhaps Konq does now; it didn't in 7.04
<crimsun> (haven't tested 7.10)
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> tonio_ did some work on that front in .10
<imbrandon> afaik
<imbrandon> i dont think its as robust as firefoxes though and relys on ubuntu packages, eg its not an upstream thing
<crimsun> hmm, yeah, that would be bitten if f-n were removed ;p
<StevenK> Neat. It's hailing
<crimsun> it has been snowing here
<imbrandon> its supose to snow/freeze rain here tonight
<imbrandon> crimsun: btw where are you now? heh
<imbrandon> wasent you doing some traveling ?
<zul> it always snow in canada eh?
<zul> hey crimsun
<imbrandon> if yall want a quick giggle at MS's expense : http://www.imbrandon.com/2007.12.05/debian-powers-the-world.html
<crimsun> imbrandon: DC momentarily.
<imbrandon> crimsun: ahh
<TheMuso> StevenK: Youch.
<StevenK> TheMuso: It is absolutely belting down over here, I suspect that the forefront to the thunderstorm was a few stray bits of hail
<RAOF> StevenK, TheMuso: You get all the fun :(
<crimsun> TheMuso: I apologise if you've already covered a11y WRT pulseaudio in Ubuntu 8.04, but if you have a "needs work," let's chat about it sometime soon.
<StevenK> RAOF: It pelted down over here for a good few hours, and my wife said "Oh, it rained in Bondi for about five minutes."
<TheMuso> crimsun: I haven't yet.
<TheMuso> still playing with stuff and pondering
<RAOF> StevenK: Yeah, it did a bit of raining here too.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<RAOF> Yo!  bddebian!
<StevenK> The problem is I want lunch. :-)
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon, RAOF
<bddebian> imbrandon: It just dawned on me.  You don't have a brother named Kurt by any chance do you? :-)
<imbrandon> bddebian: nope
<imbrandon> y?
<RAOF> Anyone running gutsy on VT-extension-capable hardware want to test a kvm/bochs backport?
<TheMuso> crimsun: I am hoping to use a package called speech-dispatcher in the future, which would replace gnome-speech. It supports output for oss, alsa, and pulseaudio, and works with several synths.
<bddebian> imbrandon: I was friends with a Kurt Holtsclaw at Purdue
<TheMuso> I doubt I can get things ready for hardy, due to necessary upstream changes for orca, but certainly hardy+1.
<TheMuso> So for now, I'm simply thinking of wrapping gnome-speech drivers in padsp.
<crimsun> TheMuso: ok, sounds good.
<bddebian> Anyone fluent in Spanish?
<imbrandon> bddebian: ahh, could be family of some sort, i dont know any Holtsclaw's back past my father and uncles, e.g. my grandfather left my grandma and got remarried and had more kids etc
<imbrandon> when my dad was 2
<crimsun> TheMuso: I moved pulseaudio-utils from Suggests to Recommends for 0.9.8-1ubuntu1; we can attempt to add it to the desktop seed if you feel it's appropriate.
<bddebian> imbrandon: Well with my failing memory he could have spelled it with a z also. :-)
<TheMuso> crimsun: I won't know till I've tested all gnome-speech drivers that users will want to use, and then the utils package will have to be a depend of gnome-speech anyway.
<imbrandon> yea the z is another whole clan, heh, its funny though there is a "Holtsclaw and Kendal" law firm right next door to where i work too
<imbrandon> here in KC
<bddebian> heh
<crimsun> TheMuso: *nod*
<imbrandon> someday i'll pop in and be like "hey my names on the door"
<imbrandon> :)
<bddebian> "Now give me a job" ;-P
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> keescook: Oh, nice, we can pull CVEs from Debian now?
<keescook> Fujitsu: more like "see" CVEs from Debian... I needed a stopping point, so I committed what I had.
<keescook> Fujitsu: I'm hoping to be able to populate either CVE tracker from the other... so far, it reads Ubuntu & Debian, and writes Ubuntu.  Once I write debian writing, then we just have to finish the merge logic.  :)
 * Gunner_Sr good night everyone.
<LucidFox> Amarok 2:1.4.7-2ubuntu2 is in dependency wait: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/2:1.4.7-2ubuntu2/+build/461819
<LucidFox> Missing Dependencies:  	libkarma-dev
<StevenK> So there needs to be an MIR for libkarma
<LucidFox> So that's because it's in universe and amarok is in main?
<StevenK> Right
<Hobbsee> there is.  i don't think anyone answered the questions on it though
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: ugh, shouldend that have been done PRIOR to the amarok upload using it
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i didn't upload amarok last.  aka:  SEP
<Hobbsee> but, who *did* upload that?
<imbrandon> hrm i should re-upload without that dep untill the MIR is fixed, looks like a very poor MIR
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: or you could just fix the MIR :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: looks like Riddell botched that merge as well.
<imbrandon> it has other issues like a kernel module also
<imbrandon> so it likely wont be approved soon
<imbrandon> e.g. i will but i'll also fix the upload
<Hobbsee> cool, OK
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: fix some of the bugs too :)
<Hobbsee> sikon is working on the MIR, it appears
<imbrandon> hehe i havent done any amarok bug fixing in a while
<imbrandon> guess i should
<Hobbsee> yes, you should
<imbrandon> sikon? new face
<LucidFox> imprandon> I'm Sikon
<imbrandon> ahh
<LucidFox> The MIR was already on the wiki, I just filed the bug
<imbrandon> afaik MIR's also need to be signed off on by a core-dev too before going into the que
<imbrandon> leaste that used to be the case
<rick_h_> Hobbsee: hey, do you know of some good docs I can go through for dealing with packaging an unreleased project via bzr?
<rick_h_> right now I end up getting a new branch, exporting it, make dist to create an orig tarball, copy over debian dir from last build
<rick_h_> and then doing the changelog/debuild
<Hobbsee> rick_h_: bzr-buildpackage?
<rick_h_> Hobbsee: ok, I see the wiki page for that now. I'll give that a shot it looks like
<jscinoz> hey everyone :)
<TheMuso> Damn kvm
<jscinoz> I'd like to contribute some universe packages to REVU, however i'm unsure as to how my key should be added to the keyring, one wiki page states that simply need to join the Ubuntu Universe Contributors team on launchpad, another suggests emailing a GPG signed email to keyring@tiber.tauware.de, which is the correct method?
<Hobbsee> jscinoz: the former, and then ask to resync the revu keyring in here
<Hobbsee> where was that second piece of instruction?  that's very old.
<jscinoz> the second instruction was located at https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ubuntu-upload.html
<jscinoz> is located*
<jscinoz> Anyways, I've joined the team, if its possible, could you resync the keyring? :)
<Hobbsee> resyncing
<jscinoz> thank you
<jscinoz> hmm i recall reading somewhere that enemy-territory needed packaging.. the engine and the data are under a closed-source but free to distribute license, but the anti-cheat software is under a license that forbids redistribution and yet if it isn't included, it likely won't work on the majority of servers >_<
<imbrandon> looks like its got 2 very good reasons not to be in the archive then :)
<jscinoz> hmm..
<maiatoday> does someone have the link for how the debian to ubuntu version numbers work, please?
<imbrandon> <upstream-version>-<debian-revision>ubuntu<ubuntu-revision> e.g. 0.1-2ubuntu3
<maiatoday> thx
<jscinoz> i have debian version number if zero if it doesnt exist in debian?
<jscinoz> ie enemyterritory_2.60b-0ubuntu1?
<Burgundavia> jscinoz: if the specific version or the package itself does not, yes
<jscinoz> alright thanks :)
<saivann> Hi everybody, I asked Daniel T Chen in this channel to upload a patch that I made for gnucash for hardy and it has been uploaded a month ago, but the package did fail to build for ia64 and ppc.
<Burgundavia> saivann: can you fix it?
<saivann> Burgundavia : I'm not MOTU, so I don't know what I can do on this
<Burgundavia> you can provide another patch is you think you know what the problem is
<saivann> Burgundavia : The only change I made with the latest patch was to change a dependency, is-it really the problem?
<Burgundavia> if it fails to build, a bug exists
<imbrandon> saivann: check the build logs as to why it failed
<saivann> Burgundavia : gnucash-docs was listed as "suggest" in the dependencies, and I changed this for "recommend" in order to get this automatically in a future version of ubuntu, the package didn't fail to build for i386
<imbrandon> heya Burgundavia
<saivann> imbrandon : the build logs speaks about missing dependencies, let me look..
<Burgundavia> hey imbrandon
<saivann> imbrandon or Burgundavia : http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10464693/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-ia64.gnucash_2.2.1-1ubuntu5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<saivann> libgtkhtml3.8-dev: Depends: libgtkhtml3.8-15 (= 1:3.13.5-1) but it is not going to be installed
<imbrandon> saivann: has that dep on ia64 since built ?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Please give back gnucash on ia64/ppc.
<imbrandon> there we go heh, i was trying to walk saivann though that :)
<Fujitsu> ia64/ppc are almost up to date, so it is very likely that a giveback will fix it.
<Fujitsu> Bah.
<saivann> imbrandon : Possibly not, that's why I waited few weeks
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: given back
<imbrandon> saivann: probably fixed, check the next build log of it in ~24 hours ( depending on the buildd status )
<saivann> imbrandon : Thanks for your help
<imbrandon> Hobbsee / Fujitsu : ^^ not me, i just talked
<imbrandon> :)
<saivann> hehe, yes ok thanks all :)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, just for you : http://xkcd.com/353/
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Is that the Python antigravity one?
<imbrandon> yea
 * Fujitsu has been pointed at that a few times today at work.
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<imbrandon> ugh nice
<imbrandon> i update and gnome-panel crashes, reboot, now it wont start
<imbrandon> coredumps are fun
<imbrandon> guess it might be time to upgrade to hardy
<RAOF> I wish my router had as good an uptime as my server.
<superm1> RAOF, you here?
<RAOF> superm1: Yup.
<RAOF> QuÃ© pasa?
<superm1> RAOF, would you be able to do a quick test on a patch on amd64 for vlc's ftbfs?
 * RAOF likes spouting random fragments from different languages.
<RAOF> Certainly.
<superm1> okay, just to see if it makes it through (certainly not clean), around line 168 or so where it builds the x264 tree with -D__PIC__, can you add a --enable-pic
<superm1> ( in debian/rules that is )
<RAOF> Ah, OK.
<RAOF> So you want me to mangle my own source tree?  You don't have a candidate package yet?
<superm1> RAOF, well i pushed a 0.8.6.release.d-0ubuntu2 yesterday
<superm1> and it built fine on all but amd64
<superm1> i didn't want to go through the work to make checks for if its amd64 if that doesn't fix it directly
<RAOF> Ha!  We kill you, with our crazy nearly IA32ness.
<superm1> RAOF, some day i need to resurrect a box of mine that was amd64 but died so i dont need to bug you amd64 people all the time with things like this :)
<RAOF> Or ask for access to my buildbox.
<superm1> that would work too :)
<\sh> moins
<RAOF> Dear lord, it has a very, very large number of configure flags :)
<superm1> yeah those are directly for VLC
<superm1> i'm referring to the ones for x264
<superm1> it does some hacky hacky stuff to build x264 in its tree too
<RAOF> superm1: Just to check: you're after the bit where it goes # Check that we've got an x264 tree...
<superm1> er no....
<superm1> little later than that
<RAOF> Sorry, no.
<superm1> er earlier i guess depending on where eyou grabbed that
<superm1> i guess that part will work too
<superm1> yeah right there should do
<superm1> 140 or so?
<RAOF> At the ./configure stage of x264 :)
<superm1> yeah
<RAOF> That's it?
<RAOF> --enable-pic there, then try a build?
<superm1> yup
<RAOF> Started.
<RAOF> Ah, that well known shared library, firefox.
<superm1> k great thanks
<\sh> does someone wants to fix squid? (bug #174352)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174352 in squid "[CVE-2007-6239] squid-2.X and squid-3.x are vulnerable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174352
<superm1> RAOF, i'm going to head to bed for a little bit.  i'll watch for a message in the morning with how the build ended up.  thanks again
<RAOF> superm1: K.
<RAOF> superm1: Builds fine.
<\sh> Fujitsu, cacti in gutsy is ok for 2007-311[23]
<\sh> but the others are still valid...fix them
<txwikinger2> cool .. my first bugfix is in the archive :D
<txwikinger2> Now I just have to figure out how to get it upstream
<jpatrick> I usually send an email upstream with the patch attached
<txwikinger2> jpatrick: yes.. I think I will attach it to the email to the bugtracker
<huats> hello everyone
 * Fujitsu worships mjg59 for giving us a new ELER.
<imbrandon> well all upgraded to hardy, compiz is the only thing held back but i dont use that anyhow
<imbrandon> ELER?
<StevenK> Everybody Loves Eric Raymond
<imbrandon> ahhh
<imbrandon> now to find out why my nano isnt syntax hilighting anymore .... hrm
<StevenK> Because nano sucks
 * Fujitsu agrees with StevenK.
<imbrandon> heh <3 nano
<Fujitsu> I didn't even know nano could syntax highlight.
<StevenK> Only people who don't know vi use nano
<imbrandon> yea for a few years now
<imbrandon> StevenK: heh actualy i prefer vi over emacs but i use nano day to day
<imbrandon> if my text editor includes tetris ( yes emacs has tetris ) its not a txt editor
<Fujitsu> Evil emacsers.
<imbrandon> now if nano would read gzip'd text files i would have no reason to use vi at all
<imbrandon> that seems to be the only time i use it
<Fujitsu> ... other than nano being inefficient and silly.
<imbrandon> inefficient ?
<imbrandon> nano file; ^X <enter> vs. vi file , esc i, :wq!
<imbrandon> 3 step vs 1
<imbrandon> err 3vs 2
<imbrandon> still
<Fujitsu> If all you're doing is saving....
<imbrandon> 99% of the time i edit a file to edit a file, then save it, yes, that is the reason for an editor :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: :%s///g in nano?
<imbrandon> StevenK: ^Z; sed -i s///g; fg
<StevenK> That isn't the same thing at all
<imbrandon> how do you figure, it accomplished the same thing
<Amaranth> imbrandon: compiz should be fixed soon, fwiw
<imbrandon> Amaranth: cool
<Amaranth> compiz-dev was missing a dep on libx11-xcb-dev so all the other packages that build against it (fusion stuff) failed
<imbrandon> figured it was something like that, i am suprised that was all that failed to install honestly
<imbrandon> StevenK: here is nano with some python color i just took love http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/nano-color.png
<imbrandon> err Fujitsu ^^
<imbrandon> sorry StevenK
<Amaranth> imbrandon: gnome-orca or whatever won't install either
<Amaranth> or system tools
<imbrandon> ahh yea , that too, i forgot about that one, i think system-tools finaly did
<Amaranth> gnome-orca and system-tools-backends
<Amaranth> they didn't a few hours ago
<Amaranth> it's funny though, synaptic installs python-pyatspi for gnome-orca then puts it in autoremove since gnome-orca didn't install
<imbrandon> lol
<Amaranth> imbrandon: is there anything useful in the new flash or just a version bump?
<imbrandon> x264 video iirc
<imbrandon> is the main thing
<Amaranth> ooh
<TheMuso> Amaranth: I know about orca, thats not too hard to get resolved.
<Amaranth> and they apparently have an amd64 windows version
<Amaranth> so hopefully they will for linux soon
<Amaranth> ooh ooh ooh
<Amaranth> XEmbed plugin support
<Amaranth> no more javascript menus going under flash and flash stealing focus for scrolling
<Fujitsu> Ooh, nice!
<imbrandon> sweet
<Amaranth> of course gecko and such need to support it too, i think 1.9 does
<Fujitsu> So Flash objects won't be silly overlays that don't scroll with the rest and eat input?
<Amaranth> right
<Amaranth> it already works with opera
<TheMuso> Is it an archive admin day today?
<Amaranth> I thought that was tomorrow
<TheMuso> Thats why I'm asking.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: syntaxx hilighting in nano is just simple regexes in nanorc ala http://paste.ubuntu.com/2503/ is my python one
<TheMuso> I've never really known.
<Fujitsu> Hahahahaha.
<Fujitsu> Hahahahah.
 * Fujitsu has a simple `syntax on'
<imbrandon> we really should include some basic synctax hilighting in the default nanorc but i've not bugged anyone
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea but it makes it trivial to change :)
<Fujitsu> I can open up practically any textual file and have sane syntax highlighting automatically.
<imbrandon> my php one is a bit bigger :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/2504/
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea but isnt there still some file that it reads that info from ?
<imbrandon> its just default in ubuntu
<imbrandon> and you can do "generic" hilighting too just omit the first line and it will do the same
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Right, they're provided by vim-runtime, and are part of the standard vim distribution, I believe
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i should really try to convince the nano maintainer to add some to our default
<Fujitsu> (or you could use vim...)
<imbrandon> heh well nano is "default" in ubuntu :)
<imbrandon> anyone got any idea whats up with the mplayer ftbfs, i uploaded it last ( only as a rebuild ) , will a giveback ( eventualy ) fix this ?
<\sh> phew
<\sh> combots is dead, com - bots is dead (canon)
<imbrandon> moins cprov
<\sh> only 3 machines left, and they are wiping like hell
<cprov> imbrandon: morning
<imbrandon> :)
<Fujitsu> Evening Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> heya!
<Amaranth> whoa
<Amaranth> the xembed flash stuff works with current firefox/epiphany
<Fujitsu> Nice.
<Amaranth> and the context menu is gtk2 instead of some ugly thing
<Fujitsu> Yay!
<imbrandon> nice
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: plugins given back
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: yay
 * Hobbsee bumps the prio of standard compiz, so it gets built first
<Amaranth> huh, it seems like the new gmail is harder on my cpu than the new flash
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: It still eats my scroll events :(
<Amaranth> really?
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Amaranth> i just put my mouse above a youtube video and used the arrow keys to scroll down, no problem
<Fujitsu> But I get a nice context menu.
<Fujitsu> Oh, I'm talking about mouse wheel.
<Amaranth> oh
<Amaranth> yeah, it grabs though
<Amaranth> err, those
<Amaranth> but i think that's by design?
<Fujitsu> I guess it must be.
<superm1> RAOF, okay thanks.  i'll adjust a patch later on to add that w/ amd64 and leave it as is with other archs
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, any thoughts on those debdiffs?
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: i have one incorperated and the autoreconf one made it ftb, but i have new way t fi that in the works
<imbrandon> brb
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, what type of error did the libvisual-plugins one throw on build?
 * Hobbsee ponders what to do
<DarkMageZ> it builds here under my gutsy pbuilder :(
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: hardy?
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, not running it yet.
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: if you want to build for hardy, you need to build in a hardy pbuilder.
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, building for debian which will get synced to hardy.
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: oh right
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: so, uh, why would you then be building in a gutsy pbuilder, and not a sid one?
<\sh> ok...when you ever wanted to see a spacy datacenter...you can find our former DC here :) http://www.sourcecode.de/content/it
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, because i build for myself. with alittle bit of extra effort to not violate the specs so that the rest of the world might benefit.
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: i'm just gonna make it use autotools and remove the autoreconf
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: fair enough.
<imbrandon> patches
<imbrandon> there really isnt a good reason not to
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, finally someone who understands =D i've already got a hack for that setup. i'll rebuild the debdiff.
<imbrandon> well before we dident make it autotool dependant because the debian maintainer dident want to, but now as i'm the debian maintainer for it
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i can
<imbrandon> and hack for what setup ? what configure options are you using ?
<imbrandon> ( and you know my email does work for when i'm offline :P )
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, yeah. but irc is much more real-time.
<imbrandon> :)
<bigon> mmm, could someone explain why I get warning like dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find any packages for libbeidlibopensc.so.2 (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10759374/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.belpic_2.6.0-2ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz) when building belpic package?
<bigon> there are no such warning in debian, moreover some package dependencies are not complete...
<bigon> anybody?
<soren> bigon: Looks like libopenct1's shlibs is b0rken?
<soren> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: shared libs info file '/var/lib/dpkg/info/libopenct1.shlibs' line 2: bad line ''
<bigon> yes I know (there is an extra line break at the end of the file)
<bigon> but I'm not sure that is the real problem
<bigon> http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?pkg=belpic;ver=2.6.0-2;arch=i386;stamp=1195993724
<bigon> there the same warning in debian but the dependencies are correctly generated
<bigon> soren: I don't know if you see my message yesterday evening?
<soren> bigon: I did.
<bigon> ok :)
<soren> A lot of the merge was cosmetical changes, actually. I sorted a lot of it out, but clearly there were a few ones I missed.
<DaveMorris> can someone please revu my package, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<mruiz> dholbach, hi ! Do you have a package to merge?
<dholbach> mruiz: I'd have to look up in merges.ubuntu.com myself
<dholbach> does somebody else have an easy merge left?
<dholbach> mruiz: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO should have a bunch of tasks also
<jonnymind> hello
<jonnymind> I am testing the source package.
<jonnymind> ... that I have made :-)
<jonnymind> uhm...
<jonnymind> test -f src/falcon.c -a -f debian/rules
<jonnymind> how can I override this?
<jonnymind> ok, found
<mruiz> dholbach, I found some packages: hardware-monitor, jokosher, monster-masher :-)
<dholbach> mruiz: huats is working on jokosher
<mruiz> ok
<huats> mruiz: yep
<huats> :)
<huats> I am a bit long (not much time) but I am working on it... by the end of the week it should be ok... thanks daniel...
<dholbach> de rien
<huats> dholbach: dad should be more used, in order to keep a record of such actions...
<jonnymind> ppl, is there any policy about -j to be used on make?
<mruiz> dholbach, is there a plan to merge LP, merges and dad?
<dholbach> mruiz: I don't know of anybody working acticely on it
<\sh> mruiz, the plan was to stick DaDs frontpage into MoMs FrontEnd
<mruiz> dholbach, I'll work on monster-masher and hardware monitor
<dholbach> mruiz: ok great
<mruiz> \sh, any advance with it ?
<mruiz> dholbach, any problem?
<dholbach> no, not at all
<mruiz> :-)
<\sh> mruiz, I don't know what the status of the project is, ask KeyBuk or the devs of DaD
<mruiz> thanks \sh
<\sh> hey Nightrose
<Nightrose2> ;-) hey \sh
<jonnymind> ppl, do the install process inside a source package has to be sudoed?
<imbrandon> no
<jonnymind> I get copy or link errors during the installation step, it would seem the user building under pbuild root hasn't admin privileges on the pbuild space...
<\sh> jonnymind, apt-get install fakeroot
<soren> jonnymind: It does not need to be sudoed. It does, however, need a way to make various tools think it's root. This can either be done by actually being root, by sudoing, by using fakeroot, by replace tar with something that works around it in another way...
<jonnymind> Ah, i was just pasting:
<\sh> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot will help to solve all your little problems :)
<jonnymind> ERROR: ld.so: object 'libfakeroot-sysv.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
<jonnymind> :-)
<soren> jonnymind: fakeroot is the way to go.
<jonnymind> Reading state information... Fatto
<jonnymind> fakeroot Ã¨ giÃ  alla versione piÃ¹ recente.
<jonnymind> Or...
<jonnymind> "fakeroot is already here"
<jonnymind> and...
<jonnymind> dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
<\sh> "we are the knights who say "Ni!"
<jonnymind> yet, the poor install step seems not able to mangle with the fakeroot /usr
<\sh> jonnymind, if you are using pbuilder just sudo pbuilder build <whatever>*.dsc pbuilder does the rest for you...
<jonnymind> that's what I am doing.
<\sh> if there are errors, like preloading a lib, it's more likley your source is somehow broken
<\sh> actually what is it?
<\sh> :)
<jonnymind> No, I tried a fast sudo ./build.sh -i in the rules for a test
<jonnymind> the warning came from sudo.
<\sh> jonnymind, so something really weired is happening
<jonnymind> let me find it...
<\sh> jonnymind, you don't need the sudo command in debian/rules
<jonnymind> in fact.
<jonnymind> it was a test.
<jonnymind> On a clean build, that's what happens:
<jonnymind> touch build
<jonnymind>  fakeroot debian/rules binary
<jonnymind> <install rule correctly started>
<jonnymind> <cmake links correctly performed>
<jonnymind> and then
<jonnymind> Install the project...
<jonnymind> -- Install configuration: ""
<jonnymind> -- Install configuration: "release"
<jonnymind> CMake Error: Error in cmake code at
<jonnymind> /tmp/buildd/falcon-0.8.5/devel/release/build/core/engine/cmake_install.cmake:35:
<jonnymind> FILE error when creating symlink from: /usr/lib/libfalcon_engine.so to libfalcon_engine.so.1
<jonnymind> Ok, let's see what does a local build
<\sh> lol...did anyone read http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/article.php/3714986 ?
<Nafallo> \sh: gimme a sec.
<highvoltage> \sh: I tend to not read things like that :)
 * mruiz reading
<\sh> especially the part with "1."
<\sh> on the first page...
<norsetto> how long will spacehero spiffy last?
<norsetto> dholbach: quick, if you need to ask/tell me something before the zorg take me!
<dholbach> norsetto: the Zorg?
<norsetto> dholbach: yes, spaceman spiff worst enemies
<norsetto> dholbach: I'm pretty sure they are responsible for my wireless acting .....
<dholbach> norsetto: we'd really like to have you fully back!
<norsetto> dholbach: its about 10 minutes I'm here and have not lost the connection once, there must be something wrong .....
<ScottK> norsetto: These youngsters don't fully appreciate Calvin.
<norsetto> ScottK: woot? You mean they have no culture!?
 * dholbach confiscates a few crack pipes in here
<dholbach> :)
<ScottK> norsetto: Of course not.  Youth is wasted on the young.
<broonie> dholbach: All the more for you? :)
<norsetto> ScottK: truer words were never spoken ...
 * DaveMorris is young and doesn't believe it!
<ScottK> DaveMorris: You will when you're older.
 * Hobbsee steals the crack pipes off dholbach
<norsetto> Has anyone tried to build a package in sid recently? I'm getting funny error messages from dpkg-shlibdeps
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<ScottK> Hello DarkSun88.
<dholbach> hey DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> Hi Scott, Daniel. :)
<jonnymind> I've been experimenting a bit. It seems pbuilder fakeroot gets somehow in the way of cmake call to "ln -s"
<jonnymind> anyone having heard of similar problems?
<imbrandon> jonnymind: why not use debian/<package>.links ?
<imbrandon> and dh_links
<jonnymind> My build process is highly automatized.
<jonnymind> But I might copy the needed fiels by hand.
<jonnymind> *this* time. Changing a file and having to do that for, say, ten distro would be a mess.
<jonnymind> So, the install process DO install the libraries and links them properly.
<huats> lionel: hey
<norsetto> huats: hey
<lionel> hey huats :)
<huats> norsetto: my favorite mozarella (di buffalla) eater
<norsetto> huats: moZZarella di buFala :-)
<DarkSun88> :D
<huats> don't have the time to see the spelling... I enjoy that too much
<huats> :)
<norsetto> huats: exactly like my wife, you double where you shouldn't and forget to double where you should, its a frenchies trademark
<huats> :)
<norsetto> huats: gnochi al pommodoro?
<huats> norsetto: you know, you can come in Toulouse and cook... I am sure lionel will be happy also....
<norsetto> huats: after having seen that picture with you and the pizza I know you are serious about food
<huats> :)
<huats> norsetto: you should visit my coooking website :)
<jonnymind> About install with cmake: I removed temporarily lib installation; but I get an error on creating a system directory:
<jonnymind> FILE cannot create directory: /usr/lib/falcon. Maybe need administrative privileges.
<jonnymind> it seems cmake runs with some non-admin privilege under pbuilder.
<jonnymind> any place I could look in?
<maiatoday> aah gnochi al pommodoro, how my mouth waters
<maiatoday> I am trying to do a debdiff of two .dsc files and I am making sure I am in the directory where the two .dsc files are
<maiatoday> I am getting /tmp/...../ infront of the files, is there a setting I need to change?
<norsetto> maiatoday: are you in a chroot?
<maiatoday> no just normal login
<maiatoday> I am also doing the debdiff as me ie no sudo or chroot
<norsetto> maiatoday: and you give a command like debdiff <old_package>.dsc <new_package>.dsc > <new.package>.debdiff I guess?
<maiatoday> yes exactly
<norsetto> maitoday: have you installed the patchutils package ?
<norsetto> maiatoday: have you installed the patchutils package ?
<lionel> yeah, norsetto in Toulouse with pizza :)
<norsetto> maiatoday: if you haven't, debdiff will not use interdiff, so, it will use a temp directory to expand the diff.gz (I guess)
<maiatoday> just installing patchutils, I installed all things at the beginning of the various guides so I am not sure if I missed patchutils
<norsetto> lionel: any preference? Borromea or Capricciosa?
<lionel> Capricciosa for me :)
<maiatoday> aaah much better
<huats> 4 cheese
<norsetto> huats: I knew you were saying that ....
<norsetto> huats: but I refuse to use rochefort instead of gorgonzola!
<huats> No
<huats> I want gorgonzola
<norsetto> huats: What about fitou? Don't tell me you don't like that too?
<huats> norsetto: don't know what it is...
<norsetto> huats: WHAT!
<jonnymind> ppl.. I didn't touch food for the whole day.
<jonnymind> And I am Italian.
<jonnymind> oh... meal/dinner ready! :-)
<huats> nope
<norsetto> huats: you mean, you don't drink wine?
<huats> norsetto: I don't like wine...
 * maiatoday is starting to drool
<norsetto> huats: a frenchman that doesn't drink wine .... its almost as sad as a sober irishman ....
<imbrandon> thoughts on my new theme? http://www.imbrandon.com/ ( will release is OSS once its more "complete" and a tad of feedback on it )
<maiatoday> norsetto: my debdiff patches cleanly now. Should you check it before I attach it to the bug?
 * norsetto hugs all the irishmen that like a good drink!
<dholbach> imbrandon: nice
<huats> norsetto: In fact I don't like the taste of alcool....
<imbrandon> dholbach: thanks :) ok naptime for me
<huats> excpet in some beverages...
<norsetto> maiatoday: if you want
<norsetto> maiatoday: can you paste it in a pastebin?
<norsetto> imbrandon: OMG, and I thought you were a kubuntero ....
<imbrandon> norsetto: i am, i have a kubuntu theme in the works too that will randomly alternate ( not implmented yet )
<maiatoday> norsetto http://pastebin.com/m224ae5e9
<imbrandon> and also a debian theme too :)
<norsetto> maiatoday: you version still looks not allright
<norsetto> maiatoday: and you forgotten the maintainer change
<norsetto> maiatoday: once you do that, remember that the maintainer change should also go in the changelog
<maiatoday> ok good thing I let you check it. I think I can find the maintainer info. As for version trying to figure it out again, the orig version was 20070203-3 and it didn't come from debian so should it be 20070203-4 then instead?
<norsetto> maiatoday: this is interesting, it seems that this is an ubuntu package but doesn't use the ubuntu version
<norsetto> maiatoday: its in main, they might be doing their own things specially .....
<norsetto> maiatoday: also the aspell-af.info-aspell looks wrong
<norsetto> maiatoday: Language: afrikaans (Adrikaans) (sic)
<norsetto> maiatoday: never heard of this company too :-) "The Debian packaging is (C) 2007, Cnonical LTD and"
<norsetto> maiatoday: you may want to talk to doko_ directly, he may advise you differently
<maiatoday> hmmm ok, I'll mail him and ask him
<norsetto> maiatoday: let him know about the other two things I said, if he needs to update it he may as well correct them too
<maiatoday> norsetto, ok will do , do you want to be cc'd on the mail?
<norsetto> maiatoday: not particularly, but if you want to cc me please do
<maiatoday> ok I'll save you the spam and just give executive summary when it is resolved then
<norsetto> maiatoday: dank u
<jonnymind> I have a tentative package. I'd like to post it for comments before doing  some further experimentations.
<jonnymind> Where should I send it?
<norsetto> jonnymind: revu. you need a link?
<jonnymind> uhm, yes thanks, if you have it handy
<norsetto> jonnymind: sure: http://revu.tauware.de/
<jonnymind> Is there a form in which I can specify it's a RFC?
<DaveMorris> norsetto: you mind going over cpptest quickly again?
<norsetto> jonnymind: no, you just dput it there. I think you need to be a member of ubuntu-universe-contributors and have your gpg key synced
<jonnymind> I should be fine for that.
<norsetto> jonnymind: an open [needs-packaging] bug report is all you need (which effectively substitute the RFP/ITP)
<norsetto> DaveMorris: I thought we cleared it all, didn't we?
<jonnymind> Ok, thanks. Where do I open that (again)?
<norsetto> jonnymind: in launchpad
<jonnymind> launchpad->ubuntu, right?
<norsetto> jonnymind: yes, then report a bug and tag it as [needs-packaging]
<jonnymind> (sorry for queryness: I am home from work for a flu ;-)
<jonnymind> tnx
<norsetto> jonnymind: do brobleb
<DaveMorris> norsetto: I just made those last changes and it needs advocating again
<norsetto> jonnymind: let me find a good example that you can follow
<maiatoday> thanks norsetto
<norsetto> maiatoday: np
 * maiatoday goes to find some Italian food now before she faints
<norsetto> maiatoday: have a good glass of south africans chardonnay with it :-)
<maiatoday> :D it might turn into a party
<norsetto> jonnymind: bug 173829
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173829 in ubuntu "Please package the Saitek X52 MFD library" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173829
<jonnymind> tnx
<norsetto> maiatoday: and whats wrong with that :) !?
<norsetto> DaveMorris: I advocated on the assumption that those were corected, so, it still stands
<DaveMorris> norsetto: doesn't it get wiped each time a new upload takes place though?
<norsetto> DaveMorris: well, thats because the software doesn't read english, so it assumes that, but my comment is pretty clear
<norsetto> DaveMorris: if you get apachelogger_to confirm that he is happy with the latest changes your package is good to go
<DaveMorris> ok
<norsetto> DaveMorris: btw, how come you get this config.log in there? Its a failed compilation? You use debuild for making the binary package?
<DaveMorris> it's because I did dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot then did a cntrl D on it
<norsetto> DaveMorris: ok
<DaveMorris> as I wanted dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot
<jonnymind> norsetto: strange, I have this error:
<jonnymind> (lintian) no-shlibs-control-file usr/lib/libfalcon_engine.so.1.8.1
<jonnymind> Ah, nm, found;
<norsetto> jonnymind: did you check it before with lintian/linda?
<jonnymind> it was distroed but not copied
<bddebian> Heya gang
<norsetto> booh
<ScottK> bah
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<jonnymind> An example of dput for source packages?
<ScottK> jonnymind: For REVU?
<jonnymind> yes
<jonnymind> nm, found.
<jonnymind> ty anyway
<ScottK> OK.  Sorry.  Got distracted.
<jonnymind> No, really, I usually find things faster and without pinging ppl for nothing; be patient, I am a bit ill today ;-)
<jonnymind> However, the package is up.
<jonnymind> I filed a bug request too.
 * jonnymind is away: Cheering with champagne!
<txwikinger> I found an issue in hardy where a package got renamed and therefore a dependency is broken
<soren> Where do mono dll's usually live?
<soren> txwikinger: Which package (both ends of the dependency)?
<norsetto> soren: I know where I usually kill them
<txwikinger> bibletime and libclucene0
<txwikinger> libclucene0ldbl is now called libclucene0ldbl
<norsetto> soren: anything of help here: http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/index.html ?
<txwikinger> Does it make sense to fix it or might the name change back?
<RainCT> Is it OK to request a SRU for a bug fix? (considering that the risk for regressions is minimal, to don't said null..)
<RainCT> bug 106575
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 106575 in file-roller "Can't compress to .7z if path contains whitespace" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/106575
<soren> norsetto: Yes. Thanks.
<txwikinger> well.. since the other packages got fixed.... I guess it needs to be fixed
<ScottK> RainCT: Is it a regression from a previous release?
<RainCT> ScottK: I don't think so
<ScottK> RainCT: Then my advice would be it doesn't qualify for an SRU.
<RainCT> but the patch is just adding a shell_escape() so I don't see how this could cause any problem..
<ScottK> RainCT: That's not the issue.  SRU is not just about risk, it's also about seriousness of the issue.  IIRC the policy says it needs to be crash, dataloss, or serious regression.
 * ScottK isn't in motu-sru, so don't consider that an official answer.
<norsetto> scottk: doesn't mnetion the crash actually, is regression and data loss
<Wybiral> Hey ScottK (I'm the guy who was asking about PyODE yesterday). I compiled the Hardy ODE and PyODE and TriMesh segfaults (relentlessly). I'll keep looking into it until I figure out why. Has anyone else had this problem?
<RainCT> ok
<txwikinger> how does ${shlibs:Depends} exactly work? Anybody knows a reference to some docs?
<RainCT> thx
<ScottK> Wybiral: Dunno.  I haven't used it.  Please keep looking into it.
<Wybiral> Don't worry, I will. I need it.
<jpatrick> txwikinger: I think it reads the libraries used to compile the sources and puts them in there
<txwikinger> jpatrick: yes.. that makes sense
<jpatrick> txwikinger: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-sourcepkg.html#s-pkg-dpkg-shlibdeps
<txwikinger> THanks
<pochu> Kmos: +  * Bump debhelper to version 0.5.98., but you bumped to 0.5.38 ;)
<pochu> Kmos: that's in disksearch
<Kmos> pochu: fixed :)
<txwikinger> hmm.. that is odd
<txwikinger> the source builds ok.. I think the package needs to be rebuilt
<txwikinger> how and when does a package get rebuilt in the archives?
<pochu> txwikinger: did it fail to build?
<txwikinger> pochu: No it builds fine
<txwikinger> but the one in the archive has a wrong dependency that was created by  dpkg-shlibdeps
<txwikinger> I mean the binary one fails to install, the source builds fine
<pochu> Then you need to re-upload I think
<pochu> You can rebuild it without a new upload if it already built
<Wybiral> lol, I just built the ODE and PyODE source from their CVS and SVN and TriMesh doesn't segfault anymore... But NONE of the collision works. At all, lol. Back to the code...
<txwikinger> You can, or you cannot?
<pochu> txwikinger: can't, sorry
<txwikinger> ah
<txwikinger> how do you do an upload without change :)
<pochu> add a new changelog entry ;)
<pochu> " * No change upload to fix blah build"
<pochu> or " * Rebuild for foo -> foobar transition"
<pochu> or whatever :)
<txwikinger> :D
<txwikinger> ok.. pochu .. I will do that.. just to make sure I will do another build with pbuild
<DaveMorris> apachelogger can you make sure you happy with the changes for cpptest since you advocated it and if so upload it?  Norettro is happy with them.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<RainCT> (OT) anyone knows where the list of wallpapers listed in the preferences windows is stored?
<nixternal> STFW!
<nixternal> hahaha, just kidding
<nixternal> I just got done reading that stupid ass document by esr on "asking smart questions"
<nixternal> RainCT: /usr/share/wallpapers?
<geser> RainCT: ~/.gnome2/backgrounds.xml
<RainCT> geser: ah ok. thanks!
 * RainCT was searching in gconf.. :P
<RainCT> nixternal: no, that's were the default ones get installed but if you copy something there it doesn't automagically appear in the list if you don't add it..
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> it does for KDE, Gnome I have no clue
<nixternal> but you are right, I did save a couple of wallpapers there and did notice they weren't in my list now that I think about it
<Kmos> can someone look at bug 174239 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174239 in dhelp "Please merge dhelp 0.6.0 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174239
<geser> Kmos: did dholbach (as your mentor) have a opportunity to review it?
<Kmos> geser: I think he didn't check it, only approved two syncs.
<Kmos> no more..
<Kmos> geser: if you can review it, i'll appreciate. Now i need to run away, the debdiff should be ok =)
<Kmos> thanks
 * Kmos bbl
<nixternal> dhelp was last sync'd from Debian (0.5.25), and if this was the case, then there shouldn't be any remaining Ubuntu changes right? you shouldn't also see Hobbsee's change log entry in a sync'd package?
<nixternal> also, if you were to edit the packages Makefile, would you do so by creating a patch? and would adding 'ubuntu1' to the end of the VERSION= in the Makefile really warrant a change in the first place?
<geser> nixternal: the PTS lists an Ubuntu patch for dhelp 0.5.25
<nixternal> really, because I just grabbed the soruce from the repos, and there is no patch
<nixternal> there isn't any 'ubuntu' changelog entries in it either
<ajmitch>      dhelp | 0.5.25ubuntu1 | http://nz2.archive.ubuntu.com hardy/universe Sources
<ajmitch> fwiw :)
<nixternal> bah, you are right, but there is no patch
<nixternal> they edited the Makefile manually
<geser> Kmos: isn't "Add firefox to Recommends in debian/rules" a new change as it wasn't in the last version?
<nixternal> geser: ahh yes, that was my other point
<nixternal> :)
<txwikinger> a sponsor for bug 174515 would be appreciated
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174515 in bibletime "[hardy] bibletime does not install due to dependency error" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174515
<geser> txwikinger: could you name the reason for the rebuild? which transition is this?
<txwikinger> geser: the library depency is wrong
<txwikinger> a simple rebuiild will fix that
<geser> which one?
<txwikinger> libclucene0
<txwikinger> has been renamed to libclucene0ldbl
<geser> it's usually mentioned in the changelog which transition this rebuild is for
<txwikinger> ok.. I can do that geser
<geser> txwikinger: is it ok with you when I add this information to your changelog entry before I upload?
<txwikinger> sure geser No problem
<geser> txwikinger: and it's LP: #bugnumber instead of Closes:
<txwikinger> Ah.. ok
<txwikinger> I thought some said that doesn't work
<txwikinger> I will learn it eventually :D
<geser> LP: #xxx works for automatic bug closures
<txwikinger> yes.. that is what I wanted to do
<afflux> shouldn't https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2007-December/002534.html have closed bug 165221?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165221 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] gdecrypt" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165221
<txwikinger> Thanks geser for your help
<geser> afflux: it should
<afflux> then I wonder why it didn't.
<geser> me too
<afflux> I'll close it anyway...
<geser> thanks
<geser> txwikinger: uploaded
<txwikinger> Thanks geser
<txwikinger> Now I just have to wait until it is in the repo for the final test :)
<txwikinger> wann ist damit zu rechnen?
<txwikinger> Sorry wrong language :)
<geser> txwikinger: my pbuilder-build packages has a dependency on libclucene0ldbl (>= 0.9.20-1)
<txwikinger> yes.. that is correct
<geser> txwikinger: it depends on the load on the buildds, but till it hits the archive expect at least 2 or 3 hours
<txwikinger> well.. I will check it before I go to sleep, ot tomorrow
<Flare183> Is there any packages that i could like patch or do something with?
<tonyyarusso> Flare183: looks for things tagged "bite-size" on LP maybe
<cdm10> I'd like to learn to be able to package my Python programs for Ubuntu. Is there a good guide I should look at?
<tsmithe> apachelogger, i'm going to cologne for the weekend, and probably won't have any internet access, so could you check out mscore on revu? thanks
<apachelogger> tsmithe: I'm in karlsruhe for the weekend :P
<apachelogger> though, I might be able to give it a revu @train
<tsmithe> haha
<tsmithe> well, if anyone else wants a look ;), and apachelogger, don't sweat it :) (but still, if you could, i'd be very happy!)
<tsmithe> anyhow, i've really gotta go pack my hopefully most minimal luggage
<tsmithe> ciao
<Nafallo> pochu: yes, I know.
<pochu> Nafallo: :-)
<Nafallo> pochu: just pushed it.
<Nafallo> jdong: just got accepted ;-)
<jonnymind> ppl: Building my source package has been lots of fun.
<jonnymind> May someone verify I did everything right to start the testing process?
<jonnymind> I must sign off. Goodnight to everyone.
<LordKow> hey does anyone here have a gutsy install with the fonts.conf? im trying to locate the source of the font rendering probs since the recent hardy updates
<LordKow> i believe the heart of the issue is with fontconfig but i want to confirm it
<LordKow> well i guess i can dl the gutsy livecd and compare the font config files
<rick_h_> quick ?, using my ppa I build packages, but the changes don't show in the gui installer and I had assumed the changelog would go in there
<rick_h_> what do I need to do to get the changelog into the update manager?
<Kmos> rick_h_: i think that is only for official packages from ubuntu
<Kmos> and not personal ones
<rick_h_> Kmos: ah, that sucks
<rick_h_> my ppa users hate that they don't see why there's an update
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-07
<rick_h_> Kmos: do you know how that's pulled from then in general packages?
<RAOF> rick_h_: They're pulled from changelogs.ubuntu.com
<rick_h_> so if I were to submit a LP bug for the PPAs what would I be saying it should be reading/doing that is getting done with main packages?
<rick_h_> RAOF: ok, and hten changelogs.ub... is pulling the changelogs from the package?
<RAOF> I'm not sure; that'd be internal launchpad/soyuz craziness, probably.
<RAOF> I would imagine that the buildprocess pushes changelogs to c.u.c, rather than c.u.c trying to pull new changelogs periodically.
<rick_h_> ic
<Ubulette_> c.u.c is only updated twice a day
<RAOF> However, that is uninformed speculation.  that's just how I'd (naievely) do it.
<rick_h_> yea, just seems strange that it doesn't just use the packages changelog
<LordKow> how does the ubuntu livecd package the filesystem (such as /etc /usr, etc)?
<LordKow> for instance is it put into an archive or is it directly copied to the cd?
<LordKow> cd/iso
<Ubulette> LordKow, why don't just grab and extract the deb ?
<LordKow> good idea :p
<LordKow> the fonts in qt apps right now are almost unreadable as of the latest fontconfig update (which i am trying to confirm as the cause of the font probs)
<crimsun> LordKow: see casper.
<LordKow> im guessing the specific package will be fontconfig-config
<tonyyarusso> LordKow: It's called squashfs I think.
<Ubulette> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/i386/fontconfig-config/2.4.2-1.2ubuntu4
<Ubulette> grab the deb and extract it (ar x foo.deb)
<LordKow> hey look i think i found the reason the new fontconfig-config package screwed up font rendering. bbiab
<pochu> Good night folks!
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hmm, packaging jams
<LaserJock> or is that packages of jam
<ajmitch> raspberry
<TheMuso> ...or jamming packages... down our throats.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: lol
<LaserJock> I wonder where these experienced discussion leaders are gonna come from
 * LaserJock votes to have ajmitch teach them all
 * bddebian seconds that Mr. Chairman
<ajmitch> LaserJock: please note that these are to be done in person
<ajmitch> therefore you're by far the best candidate
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I know they are in person
<LaserJock> you need to see the world some more ;-)
 * Hobbsee waves
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
 * DarkMageZ votes to send Hobbsee to teach.
<Hobbsee> ?
<LaserJock> DarkMageZ: I don't know, we don't want to see the DOOM Stick in person ;-)
<Hobbsee> hah
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I nominated ajmitch to teach all the Packaging Jams
<Hobbsee> ahhhh
<Hobbsee> sounds good.
<LaserJock> so
<LaserJock> today I was helping a labmate move his desk
<LaserJock> and since I'm responsible for all the computers I was making sure everything got moved over alright
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<LaserJock> so after navigating the cable jungle I got his computer moved over
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> and so he got it running
<LaserJock> and then I gave him a power strip/surge protector
<LaserJock> he looked at it like he had no idea what it was for
<LaserJock> so I told him to plug his computer into it to keep from getting fried during one of our power outages
<LaserJock> and so before I could say anything he just rips the power cord out of the wall (his computer was running) and plugged it into the power strip
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> luckily it's a Windows computer or I would have been more upset
<TheMuso> haha
 * ajmitch wonders if LadiesMan217 has been watching transformers lately...
<LadiesMan217> lol
<LaserJock> but he just said "that was easy"
<ajmitch> some people...
<bddebian> LaserJock: Since it was Windows you weren't worried because you knew it would come right back up?
 * bddebian hides
<LaserJock> bddebian: I wasn't worried because for Windows "it's not my problem"
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> I just have them call the help desk
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Is the debian-games channel a black hole or what? :)
<Hobbsee> unsure
<Hobbsee> it's quiet today
<ajmitch> bddebian: are they ignoring you?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: It's always quiet :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Everyone ignores me :)
 * LaserJock wonders how long we can go ignoring bddebian 
<LaserJock> bddebian: it's been what .. almost 3 years now? ;-)
<ajmitch> longer for some
 * bddebian runs to the corner and cries :'-(
<Hobbsee> bug #174239
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174239 in dhelp "Please merge dhelp 0.6.0 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174239
 * Hobbsee sighs
 * Hobbsee hits kmos with the cluebat.
<slangasek> 82% probability of crack
<imbrandon> can we just make a LP bot to follow kmos and close bugs
<imbrandon> would that be evil
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i wish.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: fortunately, it's not hard to find his bugs.  it would be possible with debhelper
 * Hobbsee rather likes the absolute idiocy in the bug.
<imbrandon> new net connection installed today, no more comcast, yay \0/
<Hobbsee>  you're not supposed ot add random recommends, with no indication as to why this might be a good idea
<Hobbsee> if the random recommends change has a bug listed next to it, the bug should say at least *something* about why the random recommends change should be done!
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> seems i get a flickr *pro* account with my isp account too
<imbrandon> hehe
 * imbrandon goes to try flickrfs
<Hobbsee> nixternal: you have a kdiff3 merge outstanding, which has been kmos'd.
<imbrandon> nixternal: that will teach you to leave merges laying arround :)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: you may want to upload, before someone uploads his changes
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: it wouldn't matter - he still has no respect for stuff belonging to other people - even if it's a lp bug assigned to them.  *shrug*
<Hobbsee> actually, this is already uplaoded, he just hasn't closed the bug.
 * Hobbsee throws out a kmos'd bug.
 * Hobbsee throws out another one
 * Fujitsu looks at the lonely Kmos email on the MC ML.
<Hobbsee> id' reply, but a lot of what i think is already on there :)
 * Nafallo mumbles about gajim having 2500 packages to be built before it's built.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: are people supposed to respond?
<TheMuso> A response from the MC would b enice.
<TheMuso> a
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I would presume the email was sent for reasons other than to sit around.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, Kmos is meant to
 * StevenK waits for him to reply "I don't get it"
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Hobbsee> bloody kmos.
<Hobbsee> now, who synced this without seeing the request was WRONG?
<StevenK> Worse, who ACKed it?
<Fujitsu> Kmos!
<Hobbsee> no one ack'd it.
<StevenK> If no one ACK'd it, they shouldn't have sync'd it.
<Hobbsee> well, exactly
<Hobbsee> does anyone actually keep their hardy-changes mail?
<ajmitch> yes
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I do.
 * Fujitsu doesn't delete mail.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: can you find otu when it was synced, and who synced it please?
<Fujitsu> `it'
<Fujitsu> What's `it'?
<Hobbsee> stunnel4, sorry
 * ajmitch doesn't know what package Hobbsee is talking about
 * Fujitsu can't see anything.
 * ajmitch has no stunnel4 mail
<Fujitsu> Must have been an autosync.
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/stunnel4/+bug/157095
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157095 in stunnel4 "Please sync stunnel4 3:4.20-5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<Fujitsu> Kms uploaded it in Gutsy.
<Hobbsee> but it had ubuntu changes....
<Hobbsee> yeah, after i explained it to him a few times
<Hobbsee> OTOH, by the time the package has been kmos'd, do we actually care?
<Fujitsu> The archive admin must have had the mail turned off when they synced it... Damn.
<imbrandon> slangasek: wow, i thought you were core already heh
<imbrandon> kmos'd, a new action
<imbrandon> lol
 * Fujitsu registers violent objections to slangasek's core-dev application, just to be different.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: The autosync somehow caught it... please talk to an archive admin: something is broken.
 * Hobbsee sets another one to invalid
<Hobbsee> slangasek: FIX IT, kthxbye.
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> er, incomplete
 * Hobbsee sees another crack-filled bug, which dholbach has already dealt with
 * Fujitsu smokes said bug.
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-coverage/+bug/173529
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173529 in python-coverage "Please sync python-coverage 2.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<Hobbsee> ...yay.
<Fujitsu> Hahaha.
<TheMuso> Ok. With the exception of 4 packages that FTBFS, the libglib1.2ldbl transition is complete.
<Fujitsu> All Ubuntu changes merged... into the null?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Nice.
<TheMuso> And FTBFS as in don't build for me.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i think so, yeah.
<StevenK> "The Ubuntu changes can be dropped because the package is now at Debian"
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i prefer "the ubuntu changes can be dropped, because debian has a new maintainer"
<imbrandon> lol
 * StevenK sharpens his ICBM.
<imbrandon> hhahaha
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Where have you seen that?
<Hobbsee> took him a long while to get the explanation thru his thick skull as to why that wasn't correct.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i don't remember what the package was now.  it went from debian QA group to a maintainer
 * Fujitsu invokes the CoC.
<StevenK> It can't be against the CoC if it's truthful.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Can't it?
<StevenK> Wait, did I say that out loud?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: It can, I was poking fun.
<pwnguin> perhaps one could invoke the "resign appropriately" clause on this fellow
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: until they nuke the ubuntu section of his LP account, that's impossible.
 * pwnguin is still unsure how someone without write access to ubuntu causes so much trouble
<imbrandon> pwnguin: untill now none of us was sure
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> filing masses of crap bug requests.
<Hobbsee> flooding the queues.
<Hobbsee> bonus points for closing bugs at random
<Hobbsee> i can't find it
<Hobbsee> my lp-searching-foo isn't good neough
<Hobbsee> could probably grep the logs if i wished
<imbrandon> pwnguin: whens the next time you will likely be in KC, I thought about org one of those pacakge jams here ( seperate from the LUG meetings ) and it would be cool if you were in town too
<imbrandon> january-ish
<pwnguin> well, i dont really make plans to come into town
<pwnguin> im not sure if i'll be in for christmas
 * Fujitsu has 1000 bug mails from Kmos at the moment..
<imbrandon> pwnguin: yea i dont think there would be good attendance arround xmas
<imbrandon> thus thinking jan-ish
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: poor bastard.  just delete tehm.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: They now get their own special folder.
<Hobbsee> hah!
<pwnguin> if you make an announcement, i might be able to show. but I hope you don't expect me to colead such an endevor
<Fujitsu> (no, not /dev/null)
<imbrandon> "Junk" ?
<imbrandon> pwnguin: no not at all, just thought you might like to attend too
<imbrandon> maybe field a question or two, but nothing along the lines of co-*
<StevenK> Searching Launchpad for all bugs related to Kmos returns 1,152.
<imbrandon> holy jebus StevenK
<RAOF> That's impressive
 * Fujitsu wonders how many the average MOTU has.
<Hobbsee> yes, but how many of them were marked "invalid" or "won't fix"?
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<Fujitsu> O_o
<Fujitsu> I have 2450 to my name.
<pwnguin> well, if we're going to legislate good QA behavior, can we also institute a "don't triage driver bugs if you dont have the hardware" policy?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: 336
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, *odd* that.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: and how many bugs were related to ubuntu?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Haha.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: got to remember that getdeb uses LP as well
<Hobbsee> so he can have crack-filled bugs there that will increase his count.
<Fujitsu> Even better.
<StevenK> I don't want to read through every page, but there is only one GetDeb bug on the first page
<Hobbsee> you can search for ubuntu bugs
 * Hobbsee has a look
 * Fujitsu notes that the Invalid/Won't Fix metric isn't particularly valid, as he might have been doing valid triage.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: was the total count for all states, including closed?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, but the chance of that is...
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Yes, the >1,000 number was every state
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: True, but I was looking at counts from others, and found a quite high proportion of each was negatively closed.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, indeed.  but i'd say most of kmos' were closed due to a) kmos incompetence b) kmos was wrong c) kmos closed teh bug at random
<Fujitsu> Right.
<Hobbsee> only 245 total, reported by kmos.
<Fujitsu> ... then what the heck were the rest he ate!?
<Hobbsee> outside of ubuntu
<Hobbsee> there appears to be 771 that he's commented on
<Hobbsee> and...159 that he's both the reporter, and commented on
<TheMuso> I'm outa here. GOing out for a couple of hours, but we have a storm coming, so offline my gear oges.
<Hobbsee> therefore, 857, assuming LP's search is not screwed.
<Fujitsu> Bye TheMuso.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: And what are the chances of it not being screwed? I'm thinking of searches for bugs within distroseries, for example.
<Fujitsu> They give completely bogus results, most of the time.
<chillywilly> I have a buddy who replaced some hardware for an ubuntu install but now he can't get the right sata driver loaded (data_via) it still loads the old one sata_sis (he even supposedly rebuilt the initrd image)...
<chillywilly> sata_via
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: indeed, it would count bugs affecting multiple packages, multiple times, as well as multiple distroseries bugs
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: however, seeing as it does it for everyone
<Fujitsu> That's not the sort of bogusness I was talking about, but right.
<Hobbsee> i haven't seen launchpad search *really* screw up for a while
<Fujitsu> That's because you don't do SRUs or security things.
<Hobbsee> no, tha'ts not what i meant
<Hobbsee> it appears to be fixed now
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i was searching for the busybox issues, iirc, so used a string that's common.
<Hobbsee> i got a whole heap of results that did not contain the words of the search string.
<Hobbsee> only a few of them, separately.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Hobbsee> like, only a few of the words, not all of them.
<Fujitsu> If you want to search by textual content, you're much better off using Google.
<Hobbsee> s/by textual content//
<Fujitsu> Google doens't handle much of the meta-data well.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: too if you use the UW search and then click "launchpad" in the results at the top, it limits it to LP only results
<Hobbsee> hmmm...
<imbrandon> OR just search for "more:launchpad <term>" like "more:launchpad busybox" on search.uw.c or in the Firefox add-in
<pwnguin> ive got a couple ignorant questions about program memory usage =/
<pwnguin> which is the best way to measure a program's memory usage in GNOME?
<pwnguin> there's Resident memory, and "Memory"
<pwnguin> (and also x server memory, which firefox uses considerable amounts of)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: and if you would find it usefull it would only take me meer minutes to whip one up that only searches bugs.launchpad.net by default without the need for extra strings
<imbrandon> just lemme know'
<imbrandon> pwnguin: no idea
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: hmm.  searching for something quite broad is something i don't tend to do much
<imbrandon> true
<imbrandon> the more:launchpad then is probably the way to go
<imbrandon> ( fyi more:forums and more:wiki also work, but thats the only 3 i implmented, more upon request )
<LaserJock> hmm, I've reported a whopping 62 bugs :/
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: the idea is that you fix / close more than you report.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: sustainable bugs.
<RAOF> pwnguin: It depends on what sort of memory usage you're after (although this is not helpful) :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, I've commented on 344
<RAOF> pwnguin: But I think you're probably after either "resident memory" or "writable memory"
<LaserJock> I'm still waaaay behind Kmos though :(
 * LaserJock write a random bug filing script
<pwnguin> RAOF: does shared count stuff thats only shared in one program?
<imbrandon> LaserJock!
<RAOF> pwnguin: See, here's where it gets difficult :(
<pwnguin> heh
<imbrandon> do we get golden ponies for christmass ?
<pwnguin> im just impressed that gnome's tool is keeping track of X
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I sure hope so
<pwnguin> its possible it also accounts for shared libs with a count of 1
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> wtf http://www.boingboing.net/2007/12/06/western-digital-netw.html
<LaserJock> imbrandon: wow, that's ... interesting
<imbrandon> kinda dumb, a hdd should do whats its told
<imbrandon> looks like i wont buy any wd's
<imbrandon> ( even though i have one sitting here with my OS on it lol )
<LaserJock> I don't quite understand what they are preventing, can you put media files on it?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> here is a better link
<imbrandon> http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1495&p_created=1168641440&p_sid=bLTfVJLi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NSw1JnBfcHJvZHM9MCZwX2NhdHM9MCZwX3B2PSZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX2ZubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PS5hdmk*&p_li=&p_topview=1
<imbrandon> ( longer but explains more )\
<LaserJock> shesh, with a URL like that it's gotta be good ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> imbrandon: even oggs :(
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> well, i don't think it'd mess me up, but what the heck
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, it's partly deceptive. the full story is that you can't share those files with OTHER users.
<imbrandon> right, but my dvr frontend certainly dont run as the same user as my pc account
<imbrandon> :)
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'm confident your random bug filing script would produce higher quality bugs than Kmos does on average.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I really don't get it
<LaserJock> I don't understand how he can do this so much
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: boredom?
<imbrandon> not knowign the processes or caring about them
<LaserJock> well, I mean like how can he be wrong so much
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: lack of care.  he does know.
<imbrandon> i doubt he knows them all, hell i dont know them all :)
<LaserJock> what is he doing wrong so much?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: the biggest problems seem to be sync bugs, where he doesn't feel it's appropriate to say why ubuntu changes can be dropped, sometimes adds more, for random, unknown reasons
<Hobbsee> as in, that's what he's working on at the moment
<Hobbsee> doesn't take enough care with his work, to see if it's right or wrong
<Hobbsee> it's kind of like a monkey has glanced at the changelog, seen one bug is fixed in debian, so we can sync the entire thing.
<Hobbsee> or the version is the same in debian, so we can throw out ubuntu changes.
<Hobbsee> it's just utter stupidity like that, which he continues to do, even though he's told over and over again why things don't work that way
<LaserJock> hmm, odd
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: other problems are just lack of care, including filing removal bugs for packages not actually in the archive anyway.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Has he really filed removal bugs for non-existant packages?  How do you even do that?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: oh yes.  i gave him a good larting over it.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: by looking at the debian removal lists, then filing removal requests for everything, or almost everything, in ubuntu from it.
<RAOF> But surely you'd file a removal request on the source package you want to remove, right?  If that's not in ubuntu...
<Hobbsee> then he filed it under ubuntu, i think.
 * RAOF blinks.
<Hobbsee> it may have been a binary that w
<Hobbsee> actually, no
<Hobbsee> iirc, it was filed under a similar source package name
<RAOF> I don't think a smiley exists for my current expression.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: of particular brilliance was a sync request of adept, which was up to ubuntu23 at the time.
<imbrandon> wow
<LaserJock> interesting
<Hobbsee> that was a while ago...but...
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: now, he's not doing as spectacularly large errors as that, but multiple smaller errors
<Hobbsee> same base problems, etc.
<LaserJock> hmm, he's not even an Ubuntu Member
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: no, they stopped him.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: some people got together some objections about it
<LaserJock> oh doh, I was there
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ__: ping
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ__: that diff.gz looks good, but umm you need to also provide me with a dsc if you want me to be able to do anything usefull with it
<nixternal> Hobbsee: I uploaded the kdiff3 merge earlier this week
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, sry. my isp's provider is being lame.
<nixternal> Hobbsee: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdiff3
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: no worries, i just applied it manualy, ummm i'm gonna make quite a few changes to this prior to upload, me and you seem to have very diffrent package techniuqes
<Hobbsee> nixternal: yeah, i saw eventually
<imbrandon> heh
<nxvl> hi folks!
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: also autotool-dev ftw :)
<nxvl> which are the priority bugs on this proces? the merges?
<imbrandon> heya nxvl hows it been going
<nxvl> imbrandon: nice, with lots of work
<imbrandon> merges are pretty important yes
<nxvl> and some hard days, cause my girlfriend has gone yesterday to USA for all summer
<nxvl> to work on vail
<imbrandon> ouch
<nxvl> so the last days i was very busy
<imbrandon> were at in the US ?
<nxvl> imbrandon: no, it's nice to have some more free time now that i'm on my MOTU process
<imbrandon> :)
<nxvl> imbrandon: vail, corolado
<imbrandon> ahh cool
<bddebian> Nice
<imbrandon> colrado is nice, cold this time of year, but nice
<nxvl> yes and he has got a nice work, he will be lift oparator, so she will be snowboarding all day
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> sounds like fun
<nxvl> yes, i'm kind of sad, but is an experience she must have
<nxvl> so i'm happy on the other hand
 * imbrandon hates snow and we have about 2 inches on the ground right now here
<nxvl> i love board sports
<imbrandon> i'd break me neck :)
<nxvl> i surf, skate, i have wakeboard, sandboard (which i want to do more), skinboard ...
<nxvl> i haven't only, skyboard and snowboard
<nxvl> and kniteboard
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> i haven't been on the snow
<nixternal> Hobbsee: don't scare me like that again...I had to search for my .upload file :)
<nixternal> if he would have created a debdiff, I would have set as "will not fix" and uploaded it myself anyways...cuz I am a jerk like that :p
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> now i need to work to fix the lost days
<nxvl> so lets merge :D
<nxvl> imbrandon: are you planning to go to debconf 8?
<imbrandon> not sure yet, i will have to see what the $work scedule is like
<imbrandon> i'd like to but who knows
<LaserJock> where is debconf8?
<imbrandon> they only decided on a region iirc, not a place
<imbrandon> somewhere in EU
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> EU gets *all* the good ones
<imbrandon> It will be held in Mar del Plata, Argentina, from August 10th to August 16th, 2008
<imbrandon> i was wrong
 * tritium can't wait for a UDS in the southwestern states of the U.S.
<LaserJock> heck yea!
<imbrandon> tritium: hehe it was in socal not long ago :)
 * RAOF thinks it's time for UDS - Hobart
<tritium> imbrandon: yeah, missed that one :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: socal?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: souther california
<LaserJock> imbrandon: Mountain View is not southern cali
<tritium> Wow, email from a google recruiter!  :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: close nuff :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: pfftt
<LaserJock> tell that to somebody from LA
<nixternal> mt. view is middle cali :)
<nixternal> middle/northern cali
<nixternal> wine country cali
<imbrandon> LaserJock: http://debconf8.debconf.org/
<LaserJock> I heard somebody from LA say anything above Bakersfield is norcal
<nixternal> it is for someone from LA
<nixternal> people in LA have their heads in the clouds anyways
<nixternal> that smog has to be getting to them
<imbrandon> s/clouds/smog/
<LaserJock> s/smog/pot/
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> coke :)
<nixternal> I think they have surpassed Newark in pollution
<nixternal> acid!
<nxvl> imbrandon: nop, debconf 8 will be on Auguston Mar de Plata argentina
<nixternal> here we go, imbrandon you know as soon as you name another drug, your x-girlfriend cutiecoder will be in here correcting you with the technical crap
<nxvl> imbrandon: they have just decide where it will be debconf 9, but i don't remember well, i have it somewhere
<imbrandon> I ... I ... cant feel ... my face ! -- Blow, best quote evar
<imbrandon> sooo true
<slangasek> nxvl: Extremadura
<LaserJock> I need a LaserRockConf
<LaserJock> everybody comes to my house
<nixternal> works for me!
<imbrandon> heh we'd all be broke from the casinos and brothels ;)
<tritium> driving distance for me
<LaserJock> Extremadura gets everything
<LaserJock> tritium: how about UDS-LANL?
<tritium> That would be interesting...
<imbrandon> call me when Mark wants to have UDS-KC
<nixternal> UDS Chicago!
<nixternal> although, the Ubuntu fans are shrinking here
<tritium> imbrandon: you're in KC?  I travel there on business _all the time_
<LaserJock> hmm, ChiTown would be great
<imbrandon> tritium: yup
<tritium> imbrandon: I'll let you know next time I'm in town.
<imbrandon> tritium: hit me up next time your in town, we can go for lunch/beer
<nixternal> we have a bunch of places that would definitely host it
<imbrandon> tritium: pwnguin is semi close to here too
<tritium> imbrandon: excellent.  How about Strouds or Jack Stack?  :)
<nixternal> Google, Google, Google, IIT, UIC, Google, Red Hat :)
<nixternal> Microsoft!
<nixternal> hahahaa
<imbrandon> tritium: cool i love them both
<tritium> imbrandon: great!  Thanks :)
<superm1> go UDS Chicago!
<imbrandon> as long as its jack stack on 435 & metcalf hehe
<nixternal> superm1: you aren't allowed back in this state!
<nixternal> are you here now by chance?
<superm1> nixternal, finals are next week, and then i'll be home :)
<tritium> imbrandon: yes, that's the one near Overland Park, right?
<nixternal> going to be around on the 16th? we are planning another packaging tutorial at COD
<imbrandon> yup, its in OP
<tritium> (I usually stay there)
<tritium> Perfect, then.
<imbrandon> op is like 5 mintues from me, maybe 10 depending on traffic
<superm1> nixternal, depends on how fast i get moved out.
<superm1> nixternal, graduation is on the 15th, so i'll be packing up and headed back as quick as i can
<tritium> imbrandon: I had no idea!
<nixternal> ya, that will be a tough one
<imbrandon> :)
 * LaserJock needs to make some cash so he can fly to KC
<nixternal> I hate crossing that river
<tritium> mmm, barbecue
<imbrandon> yesssssssssss bbq :)
<nixternal> eww sweet sauced bbq :p
<imbrandon> and the occasional fountain
<nixternal> smoking with a dry rub is the way to go!
<superm1> i'm still quite torn between southern style, texas style, and KC style..
<nixternal> ya, me too actually
<imbrandon> nixternal: kc as every kinda of bbq imagineable, but KC style is the best
<nixternal> cuz there is Bullfrogs from KC that rocks
<LaserJock> you guys have Oakland ribs before?
<nixternal> I prefer dry rubs, Texas style bbq
<imbrandon> LaserJock: at ribfest in reno :)
<nixternal> omg, and they do a bbq sausage in Texas that is insane
<superm1> nixternal, you been to rudy's at all in TX?
<imbrandon> TX isnt part of the US untill they disown dubya
<nixternal> I dunno the places I went to....went to a couple places in Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, and some hick towns further south
<imbrandon> :)
<superm1> nixternal, ah i just had rudy's for the first time a few weeks ago for an interview.  my "introduction" to TX bbq
<nixternal> dubya's the man! he has joined the clinton train on copyright infringements now
<tritium> We have a Rudy's here in Albuquerque
<nixternal> tritium: you also have the sun!
<nixternal> :)
<superm1> yeah i love their style of serving food
<tritium> nixternal: yes, and green chile :)
<nixternal> you know another place I had great bbq and it was not at all expected? Mexico
<imbrandon> was it beef or goat ?
<imbrandon> heh
<nixternal> dog
<LaserJock> nixternal: they have a lot of pigs down there, I would think pork ribs would be popular ;-)
<imbrandon> beef ribs ftw
<nixternal> dunno about that, but their pork tacos rock
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, I don't like pork
<nixternal> ya, I am not the biggest pork fan
<LaserJock> nixternal: dude!
<LaserJock> I was in mexico
<ScottK> Heya nixternal.
<LaserJock> and I had some pork tacos
<nixternal> wasabi scotty2hotty
<nixternal> hahaha
<imbrandon> the only thing i rember bout mexico was boystown :)
<nixternal> wasn't that some wrestler back in the day?
<ScottK> nixternal: Sorry I pissed you off (re your mail to -devel-discuss)
<LaserJock> and on the way home to the hotel we drove past the landfill/river and that's where all the pigs were
<nixternal> ScottK: it only lasted a couple of hours and then it made sense after I started thinking about it :)
<ScottK> nixternal: Cool.  Thinking is something I'm in favor of.
<nixternal> see, when I go to Mexico I usually go to Cabo San Lucas (every October) and every now and then I go to Jalisco to visit a friend of mine
<nixternal> in Jalisco it is nothing but agave farms
<imbrandon> newva lorado aka boyztown :)
<imbrandon> nixternal: ^
<nixternal> never heard of it, and will never go there
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> I say the next UDS be in Cabo San Lucas...especially the october one...I would love to take a sponsorship to that one :) Free Sammy Hagar!
<nixternal> Mexican Meltdown is the 2nd weekend of October every year, schedule UDS around that time and all will be good
<nixternal> people can stay out at my families house...it is definitely big enough to fit 20 people comfortably
<tritium> Nice!  Tequila shots in Cabo Wabo!
<nixternal> Tequila shots of Cabo Wabo at the Cabo Wabo!
<nixternal> mmmmm baby
<nixternal> some Anejo, some Reposado, and definitely some Los Complianos (I know I butchered it)
<tritium> I like the way you think, nixternal!
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I have about 40 bottles left of Cabo Wabo right here in my house
<nixternal> I make a killer Waborita
<tritium> That's a stockpile!
<slangasek> nixternal: why are the Ubuntu fans shrinking in Chicago?  left in the dryer too long?
<nixternal> yup
<ScottK> Cold does shrink things
<nixternal> people switching to other distros...Foresight, Gentoo (eww), Fedora is getting big, and so is PCLOS now
<nixternal> hahahaha ScottK
<nixternal> GO BEARS!
<nixternal> god they suck
 * tritium only flys _through_ Chicago, but never stops
<slangasek> wait, people are switching from Ubuntu /to/ Gentoo?
<nixternal> on Sunday the Redskins play one down with 10 defensive players, tonight they play 12...they forgot hwo to play
<slangasek> what's... wrong with them? :)
<tritium> But I always grab a sandwich at PotBelly's in Midway airport
<nixternal> slangasek: ya, I don't get it
 * Hobbsee goes off to drown
<nixternal> most of the Gentoo switching is going on at the University of Illinois at Chicago
<nxvl> i have a crashed merge
 * tritium saves Hobbsee with her long pointy stick
<slangasek> never heard of Foresight Linux before.  No mention of package management, smells like a fad to me
<nixternal> UIC is somewhat pissed at Ubuntu right now (sabdfl & jono) for not doing a talk at 2 consecutive flourish events...I can't put the fires out there and I have tried
<nxvl> the old changes are missing (on the changelog)
<nxvl> which are the procedures for this cases?
<nixternal> slangasek: Foresight has Conary, which is a pretty sweet pkg mgr
<imbrandon> its all python based from what soeone told me
<bddebian> Foreskin?
<nixternal> that it is
<slangasek> "With dependencies defined at the file level, Conary's built-in dependency resolution brings in only the components needed from other packages instead of entire packages."
<nixternal> bddebian: hehe, that is what I call it, and still call it that every now and then...and I am helping develop their KDE side
<slangasek> yeah, braindead, it'll kill itself off soon enough, moving along
<tritium> Conary is just a front-end to forceps
<imbrandon> slangasek: wow really? that sounds ignorant
<imbrandon> except maybe in embeded
<nxvl> slangasek: yes, extremadura!
<nixternal> ya, I doubt conary will kill itself off anytime soon...rPath has a bunch of clients using it now in cohoots with their rBuilder service
<slangasek> imbrandon: no, even then it's a ridiculous amount of overhead to declare per-file dependencies for everything you need instead of just dividing your packages up right...
<nixternal> slangasek: and lets not forget that you can install Foresight in less than 4 minutes :)
<nxvl> imbrandon: i have a broken merge, in the changelos, all the ubuntu* entrys are missing, which are the procedures on this case (i'm using grab-merge script)
<nixternal> haha, I leave those for other people to do :p
<imbrandon> nxvl: fix the changelog manualy :)
<nxvl> using the last ubuntu one, and adding the debian changeS?
<slangasek> nxvl: that's probably easiest, yes
<RAOF> nxvl: That probably works.  You might also be interested in some graphical merging utility such as meld (gtk) or kdiff (I think?, QT)
<tritium> Good night!
<imbrandon> gnight tritium
<nxvl> on mom the merge isn't broken, so i will use it
<nxvl> :D
<Sikon> Does the COPYING file need to be in the root directory in an upstream tarball?
<Sikon> In QSvn, the README file in the root directory points to it being in src/licenses/COPYINH
<Sikon> *COPYING
<dholbach> good morning
<nxvl> dholbach: good night!
<nxvl> dholbach: you are part of the CC, didn'y you?
<dholbach> nxvl: yeah
<nxvl> dholbach: oh nice, on perivuan LoCo team, we are trying to become an official LoCo team, so we are working on the missing point
<dholbach> NICE
<nxvl> dholbach: but i don't find the criteria used to aprove or deny a LoCo
<dholbach> hang on
<nxvl> dholbach: can you tell me about the process?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved
<dholbach> it's linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<nxvl> dholbach: i have read it already, but i have heard that we need a LoCo team supporting us?
<dholbach> nxvl: no - it's good if some members of the team show up at the CC meeting
<dholbach> so you can explain about what the team has been doing, etc
<nxvl> ok ok
<dholbach> if there's people from a different loco team who can say something good about the peruvian loco, that's nice but not a "must"
<nxvl> other thing i haven't clear is what are the thing a LoCo team must did to become oficial?
<nxvl> we are working on marketing
<nxvl> makings some talks, having stands on som others
<dholbach> best to look at other applications
<dholbach> to get a feeling for what teams did that have done well
<nxvl> and giving support on install fest
<nxvl> is that what you expect from a LoCo? or more developing or contribuiting work?
<ScottK> nxvl: You should also ping Adri2000 about the package with the messed up changelong, so he can have a look at what went wrong.
<nxvl> dholbach: actualy, we are looking at some of them
<nxvl> ScottK: i use mom and there was fine, but i will ping her
<dholbach> it's more important that your team is well organised, people know how to work together, have a clear agenda and got amazing things done without problems :)
<dholbach> (in a nutshell)
<nxvl> dholbach: thnx, now i have it clear
<dholbach> ok good
<nxvl> dholbach: we have an internal discuss because someone says that we need thing you say we don't :D
<nxvl> discussion*
<dholbach> best to talk to people from other locos
<dholbach> or people on the loco-contacts list
<ScottK> nxvl: That's what I generally do too if the DaD script has a problem.  Adri2000 is one of the DaD developers and so letting him know helps it not be messed up next time.
<nxvl> dholbach: yes, thats why i'm asking you, since you part of the ones who decide it :D
<nxvl> why is it MOTU (and OS proyects) so fun
<nxvl> dholbach: as i understan MOTU fun is your fault
<nxvl> understand
<dholbach> no, it's not exactly my fault :)
<dholbach> I was the fifth MOTU joining the team iirc :)
<nxvl> i went out of cigarretes
<nxvl> damn
<nxvl> dholbach: oh! nice
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> its kind late in here
<nxvl> good night folks!
 * dholbach sends nxvl a cigarette via letter chute
<dholbach> night nxvl
<LongPointyStick> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey Sarah!
<dholbach> or did somebody else borrow the LongPointyStick
<LongPointyStick> no, i'ts hobbsee
<dholbach> :)
<Hobbsee> the LPS can not be borrowed!
<imbrandon> ( only stolen )
<dholbach> oh, it's LPS now? that should be in wtf then
<Hobbsee> nah
<dholbach> . o O { Gee...  I don't know what lps means... }
 * Hobbsee beats dholbach with a big stick
 * Hobbsee can do better, and assigns all kmos' bugs to dholbach 
<LaserJock> man, I gotta get the ponies done so I can blog something else without feeling guilty :/
<Hobbsee> yes.  you do.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: lol
<imbrandon> man flickrfs is slick
<LaserJock> imbrandon: did Yahoo! by flickr?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i got AT&T DSL yahoo branded to replace my sucky comcast cable, so i get flickr pro and such free
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, I think I got an email about that
<imbrandon> just installed this afternoon
 * LaserJock has had yahooish DSL for a couple years
<imbrandon> the only reason i dident use flickr before was the 100mb limit
<LaserJock> the only reason I don't use flickr is I don't have any pictures
<imbrandon> i got like 100mb of pics uploading now hhehe
<LaserJock> shesh
<imbrandon> and thats only the ones i'll make public, but my collection is still small compared to say sflaw
<LaserJock> yeah, but he shoots awesome pics
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> mine are like crap
<LaserJock> I just steal his when I talk to people
<LaserJock> ;-)
<imbrandon> mine are mostly crap too, hehe but this way now i'll use the flickr workdpress plugin too and make a gallery on my page
<imbrandon> LaserJock: btw you see my new blog theme? it still needs some tweaking i dont like the lionk colors but its much better
<imbrandon> link*
<LaserJock> ummm ... that's a little disturbing ;-)
<imbrandon> ?
<LaserJock> "hmm, I wonder if I can tattoo my body to look like Ubuntu"
<imbrandon> haha
<LaserJock> it's nice
<LaserJock> just a little disturbing for an addict in recoverly
<LaserJock> *recovery
<imbrandon> LaserJock: http://www.flickr.com/photos/imbrandon/sets/    lots are still uploading
<imbrandon> buta few are there
<LaserJock> the wallpaper background is  genius
<imbrandon> :)
<Adri2000> nxvl: what merge is broken?
<LaserJock> well, the window border is too but the wallpaper works very well for a lot of blogs
<Adri2000> nxvl: sorry, I should read my mail first :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you have de Icaza in your blogroll? isn't that like heresy or something? :-)
<imbrandon> why? mono is what got me started in floss :)
<LaserJock> ah right, was thinking more the Gnome part
<LaserJock> wait a sec
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> why the heck do you run KDE then? ;p
<imbrandon> because kde == love
<imbrandon> and there are kde bindings to c#, infact when i got started with mono there was no gtk/gnome bindings :)
<LaserJock> some kind of sadistic love perhaps...
<Hobbsee> he'll be developing checkinstall next
<Hobbsee> and helping getdeb.
<imbrandon> system.windows.forms was it, and it only kinda works on linux, unlike now
<imbrandon> s/works/worked
 * imbrandon beaats Hobbsee with her own LPS
<LaserJock> heh
 * Hobbsee beats imbrandon with mneptok 
<imbrandon> lol
 * LaserJock goes back to his nice procedural python code
<LaserJock> one of these days maybe I'll find a use for OOP
<LaserJock> dang it, what an idiot
<imbrandon> ?
<LaserJock> I stupidly put my work computer on a network hub this afternoon
<Hobbsee> "oops"?
<LaserJock> we moved our offices and I've got two extra computers I'm gonna turn into backup servers
<LaserJock> since they are next to my desk I put all three computers on a hub
<LaserJock> but now of course I can't ssh into my computer :(
<imbrandon> hrm a hub  shouldent make any diffrnce
<LaserJock> a switch would?
<imbrandon> a router would
<LaserJock> I can't remember the diff
<imbrandon> router would give it a new ip/block traffic, swicthes and hubs should be transparent to ssh
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> well I can't ping it
<LaserJock> and I'm pretty sure it's on
<LaserJock> I'll have to investigate tomorrow
<LaserJock> it's so hard to get network drops and IPs at work I think I'm gonna have to use a hub
<imbrandon> a hub wnt give you any more ips, you'd need a router
<imbrandon> wont*
<LaserJock> I have IPs I guess
<LaserJock> just not network drops
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> although I do need to get a couple more IPs
<LaserJock> they took away all the IPs that weren't in use
<LaserJock> cause we were hitting 254 I guess
<imbrandon> heh i'm sure you all have more than one class c, i would think
<LaserJock> for the department
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> trime to go get a snack while i wait for flickr to finish, brb
<LaserJock> and no dhcp so it has to be cleaned up every once in a while
<LaserJock> my group lost drevil in the last cleanup :(
<LaserJock> which was an even cooler name after it spread a virus to the entire department ;-)
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> huh, for some reason I thought gnuplot was in Main
 * LaserJock stabs firefox
<\sh> moins
<DarkMageZ> if a program wants the opengl headers. i should feed it libgl1-mesa-dev ? what should one add if that doesn't stop the configure from crying?
<imbrandon> whats configure crying about ?
<DarkMageZ> it wants the OpenGL headers apparently. but i already fed it libgl1-mesa-dev.
<imbrandon> i've never used ogl headers in a package i've delt with, but i would find out exactly what file its looking for and verify that package provides it
<imbrandon> iirc there are a few diffrent ogl -dev packages
<DarkMageZ> i tried reading the configure file to see what it was playing at. but it was fairly complex.
<imbrandon> e.g. if configure if looking for something via pkg-config or a certain .h etc and use apt-file or packages.u.c to find it
<imbrandon> whats the exact error where it breakes? can you pastebin it and a few lines before it also , maybe i can help you track it, i'm not a great ogl guy but i might stumble on somehing
<DarkMageZ> i'm rerunning the build under a clean pbuilder. i'll have that in a sec.
<imbrandon> ( unless someone that is more knoledgeable about ogl than me speaks up first hehe )
<imbrandon> kk
<DarkMageZ> http://pastebin.ca/808118
<imbrandon> one sec, sending an email then i'll peek
<DarkMageZ> i've uploaded the source package to http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/lemuria/ if anyone wants to read the configure and translate it to engrish.
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: try adding libglu1-mesa-dev to the build depends
<imbrandon> ( just a guess )
<DarkMageZ> already there :(
<imbrandon> hrm, i'm honestly at a loss then, OpenGL has never been a strong point of mine, someone else in here ( or possibly #ubuntu-x ? dunno ) might be able to help
<Amaranth> DarkMageZ: it's looking for glAccum
<DarkMageZ> where do i find that :s
<Amaranth> try libgl1-mesa-swx11-dev
<Amaranth> you can't install that on your system though
<Amaranth> ah, wait
<Amaranth> err, no, i was right the first time
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> too many different names for the same thing
<DarkMageZ> hmm, but if i install that then the package i build won't install on my system  due to dependency problems right?
<Amaranth> mesa-common-dev
<Amaranth> try that then
<Amaranth> yeah, that should do it
<Amaranth> GL crap is all over the place
<Amaranth> mesa-common-dev has /usr/include/GL/gl.h which defines glAccum so if that doesn't work the project's build system is broken and you should patch around it
<DarkMageZ> mesa-common-dev is a dependency of libgl1-mesa-dev. guess it's a problem in the build system.
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: you on amd64 or i386 ?
<DarkMageZ> i386
<imbrandon> k
<pochu> Morning MOTU Land!
<Amaranth> hey pochu
<pochu> hiya Amaranth
<DarkMageZ> Amaranth, you're right. it was a bug in the build system. the dev got back to me and it was fixed in cvs. so i've got it working now ã
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, i've got a new plugin for libvisual (this is a separate package) http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/lemuria/
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 11 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<ScottK> Riddell: Any thoughts about maybe putting ktnef in Main for Hardy?  Personally, I get enough broken mail from Outlook/Exchange users in my work that I'd be pretty well dead without it.
<ScottK> Sorry.  Wrong channel.
<frenchy> dholbach: Thanks for the session, that's a great service.  Is it normally that quiet or did I hog the room?
<frenchy> dholbach: Also, would you like me to remove the dirs file now and re-upload now?
<dholbach> frenchy: maybe I didn't announce it broadly enough this time :)
<dholbach> frenchy: try it out and see if makes a change
<Hobbsee> \sh: full agreement on your post, btw
<frenchy> dholbach: But there were like 60 people in the room.
<dholbach> frenchy: if it works nicely, upload it and I'll check back
<\sh> Hobbsee, thx :)
<dholbach> frenchy: lots of lurkers :)
<frenchy> dholbach: Maybe they wanted to ask something?
<dholbach> frenchy: don't blame yourself, I really appreciated your good questions and believe that everybody learned something new and took something good out of the session
<dholbach> frenchy: so thanks again
<Hobbsee> oh, that's right, there was a questions session on
<frenchy> dholbach: No worries.
<dholbach> great
<Adri2000> nxvl: gramps merge is broken because DaD is relying on snapshot.debian.net, and the base version of gramps is not available there (see http://snapshot.debian.net/gramps and the 404 if you try to get version 2.2.9-1)
<mok0> ScottK: are you awake?
<ScottK> Yes, but on the phone
<mok0> I'll wait
<jonnymind> Hello all.
<jpatrick> hello jonnymind
<jonnymind> :-)
<ScottK> mok0: Off the phone.  What's up?
<mok0> ScottK: I'm about to do my first python package, so I have a couple of questions
<ScottK> Shoot.
<frenchy> dholbach: Sorry, I missed a few things ... please let me try again.
<mok0> It's very simple, python only, uses setup.py. I'd like to use cdbs
<mok0> Can you think of an example for me to look at?
<ScottK> mok0: Sure.  Give me a moment to make sure.
<ScottK> mok0: Have a look at pyyaml and please consider joinint Debian Python Modules/Apps Teams and uploading to Debian.  They are very friendly to Ubuntu people and it's probably easier than getting uploaded via REVU: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam
<mok0> Sounds great. I'll take contact to the team, as my next project :-)
 * Nafallo tickles ScottK 
<ScottK> mok0:  Excellent.  I'm on their IRC channel and can introduce you.
<mok0> Which channel is that?
 * ScottK gets the dead fish (now warm, but still wet) and slaps Nafallo.
<POX__>  mok0: #debian-python
<POX__> :)
<ScottK> mok0: #debian-python on OFTC.
<mok0> Cool, thanks! I'll see you there then
<Nafallo> ScottK: lol. want me to smell fishy for any special reason? ;-)
<ScottK> mok0: POX__ is a DD who is the primary sponsor for DPMT.  He's just a bit useless right now since his primary computer died.
<ScottK> Nafallo: No, I just still had it handy from our earlier discussion on #ubuntu-server.
<Nafallo> ScottK: ;-)
<POX__> hehe, yep, I'm useless right now, like ScottK said ;)
<white> anywone experiences the same problems as 454413 ?
<Nafallo> bug #454413
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> no idea.. what is it?
<white> problems after a security NMU
<ScottK> Maybe Debian Bug #454413 works better?
<ubotu> Debian bug 454413 in libcairo2 "gecho crashes with the latest unstable libcairo2" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/454413
<Nafallo> wasn't that fixed in Ubuntu already?
<white> it is a regression
<white> and ubuntu uses the same patch
<Nafallo> sure, but wasn't the regression fixed?
<Nafallo> ah, right. I'm thinking of the wrong regression.
<bddebian> Heya
<white> well i suspect that the same problem exists in ubuntu
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> we have had firefox rebuilt however...
<white> ?
<white> Nafallo: you mean it needed a rebuild against the new libcairo version?
<Nafallo> a regression made firefox be rebuilt in -security after the cairo bug.
<Nafallo> well, it's a possibilty to why I can't see the bug in current gutsy :-)
<white> but wasn't the firefox regression totally unrelated and because of a sec fix in firefox?
<Nafallo> yes. still got rebuilt against the new cairo.
<nion> hi
<Nafallo> hi nion :-)
<nion> Nafallo: can you tell me more about the regression? i was the one who update cairo in debian and i really fail to see any problem with the patch
<white> nion: Nafallo and I are discussing the damn cairo problem and he suspects that a rebuild of firefox would make it dissapear
<Nafallo> nion: any information on how to reproduce the issue in cairo?
<Nafallo> if it's just surfing around I can't reproduce it.
<nion> white: yeah a rebuild of iceweasel will for sure solve this but i will see a reason to do it first :)
<nion> Nafallo: if you have a version that has not been rebuild go to debian.org/misc
<nion> this will crash iceweasel
<Nafallo> I should see this with firefox as well, right?
<nion> yes i think so
 * Nafallo fish out the down-grade from launchpad
<ScottK> imbrandon: You might want to follow-up on your openssl097 blog post that it's been removed from partner.
<Nafallo> nion: doesn't die with this version either.
<nion> hmm strange
<nion> if the reporter wouldnt say that downgrading solved his problem id really say this patch does not cause this :)
<nion> i see no ABI breakage in the patch
<Nafallo> nion: rebuild it for the reporter and ask him to test that version?
<nion> why this?
<nion> or you mean iceweasel?
<Nafallo> nion: to see if rebuilding solves it :-). yes, the browser.
 * RainCT wonders if there is any reason why /usr/local/games isn't in the path
<nion> ah yes sure, already building
<Nafallo> RainCT: people shouldn't play games ;-)
<RainCT> lol
<RainCT> Nafallo: but /usr/games is
<RainCT> :P
<Nafallo> RainCT: people shouldn't compile games ;-)
<Nafallo> nion: weirdness anyway. no idea then.
<nion> Nafallo: did you see the patch?
<RainCT> Nafallo: ok, I'll tell people that you volunteer to package any game that isn't in the repo.. muahaha :)
<Nafallo> nion: looking now
<Nafallo> RainCT: :-P
<nion> Nafallo: i mean what it bascially does is changing all malloc calls to the preprocessor function to fix the integer overflows, there should be no addresses involved that could change
<Nafallo> nion: agreed. if it didn't relied on buggy behaviour :-)
<RainCT> omg, the kde-core package filled my "others" menu with crap :P
<nion> mhm this thing is driving me nuts :)
<ScottK> RainCT: IIRC (as in I didn't look it up to make sure): usr/local is all FHS calls for and by design subdirs are not in the path by default.
<RainCT> (I guess that the reason that a 70% of the icons are missing is that  a KDE artwork package is missing, or?)
<RainCT> ScottK: but /usr/local/bin is. that's what I find strange..
<ScottK> Hmm.  Dunno then.  I don't ever install stuff that isn't packaged, so it doesn't come up for me (I'll roll my own if needed).
<RainCT> I usually neither (most of what I've there are little scripts I created myself), but sometimes I try somewhat out (removing it later) and one of those times I noticed this..
<Nafallo> nion: nothing pops out.
<bobbo> Is this where you come to get help with packaging?
<ScottK> bobbo: Yes.
<bobbo> right, I am trying to package a python script but i am totally stuck for writing the rules file (This is my first package)
<jeromeg> does anyone knows how I can find the patch whihc fixed http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=462906 ?
<ubotu> Gnome bug 462906 in GUI "[Win32] Tools->Preferences crashes" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<jeromeg> I need it to do an SRU
<nion> Nafallo: ok thanks so far, i have to wait for the iceweasel build then
 * RainCT is going to have a look at KDE
<RainCT> wow.. pretty nice this KDE thing :P
<ScottK> RainCT: ;-)
<nxvl_work> ScottK: i made the changes you ask for gramps
<ScottK> nxvl_work: I saw.  Did you send the bugs to Debian?
<nxvl_work> ScottK: nop, i don't find the LP bug to check the why of the change and don't feel good just saying "add this thing cause i say so"
<nxvl_work> and on the changelog isn't the bug number so i can see the why
<ScottK> OK.  dh_iconcache was an Ubuntu only thing.  dh_icons is in Debian.  It's a wishlist bug for Debian because their menu system doesn't need it.
<ScottK> So the bug would be please add dh_icons to help out downstream with a priority of wishlist.
<nxvl_work> ok, reporting
<keescook> StevenK: (or other u-u-sponsors admin): can you renew my membership to the team?
<nxvl_work> sent
<dcordero> hi
<dcordero> if i add a new gpg key to my launchpad, it will be added automatic in revu system?
<pochu> Are you in ~ubuntu-universe-contributors?
<pochu> And no, a REVU admin needs to resync the keyring
<nxvl_work> ScottK: should i link bts to the LP bug? I think no, cause it has nothing to do with the merge "bug"
<dcordero> i am revu member with a old gpg key
<ScottK> nxvl_work: That's correct (no).
<nxvl_work> ScottK: ok, it's reported
<ScottK> dcordero: Keys will have to be resynced.
<pochu> dcordero: then a re-sync should be enough I guess. imbrandon, siretart?
<dcordero> ok
<dcordero> i see
<nxvl_work> ScottK: you are also a DD, didn't you?
<ScottK> nxvl_work: No.  Working on it.
<nxvl_work> ScottK: oh k, so you are a NM
<ScottK> Yes.
<jpatrick> how does one use "dpkg --compare-versions" ?
<jpatrick> I keep getting nothing
<bddebian> dpkg --compare-versions 1.0~rc1-1 lt 1.0-1 && echo true || echo false
<bddebian>   true
<jpatrick> ah, ok
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<blueyed> StevenK: do you plan uploading a new virtualbox-ose-modules with the available fixes? I could put together a debdiff for sponsorship, but won't bother if you'll re-work it then anyway.
<Ng> where abouts in a package would I put the necessary mojo to make a given binary setuid?
<nion> Nafallo: ok, rebuild does not help, seems to be related to the maths in the preprocessor functions
<Nafallo> nion: lovely :-/
<_MMA_> Hi guys. A backport request is just a bug filing right? Should it be formatted any particular way?
<geser> _MMA_: have you read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#head-37a793d5ee480081f1c9f19e07fcdcdae5e6a9ed ?
<ScottK> _MMA_: Not really.  Ideally you would have built and tested what you want backported.  If you have, please make sure you say the exact version tested.  Someone will have to test it before it can be approved.
<_MMA_> geser: Done. ScottK: I already filed. :( In any case there's only one version and its in Hardy. I'm actually using that in Gutsy. Maybe I can get one of my guys to do it.
<ScottK> _MMA_: GIve me a bug number.
<_MMA_> bug 174722
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174722 in mppenc "Please backport mppenc to Gutsy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174722
 * ScottK looks
<_MMA_> ScottK: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/sound/mppenc
<jonnymind> Ppl, just fyi. I experience a series of random mouse hangs since tuesday night (I updated with adept, but I don't remember exactly the packages).
<jonnymind> In the  beginning, I thought it was my wireless mouse, then I switched to a standard USB one and the result was the same...
<jonnymind> I am rebooting now for this reason. brb.
<ScottK> _MMA_: Just add a comment that it builds, installs, and runs in Gutsy and I'll approve it.
<_MMA_> Ahh... I see what you mean now. Sure. I think I can do this tonight.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<geser> Hi DarkSun88
<Nafallo> hi Baby
<DarkSun88> Hi geser :)
<DarkSun88> See you later. I'm goint to eat.
<DarkSun88> going*
<wraund> wow ubuntu is adaptable, must be the generic kernel, my main MoBo died and ive temp replaced with an older Mobo and ancient processor
<wraund> it works :o
<jussi01> ScottK: ping. Please check bug 174722
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174722 in mppenc "Please backport mppenc to Gutsy" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174722
<ScottK> jussi01: Looking
<ScottK> jussi01: Thanks.  Acked from ubuntu-backporters.  Now we just need to wait for an archive-admin to process it.
<ScottK> _MMA_: ^^^
<_MMA_> ScottK: Thanx. :)
<ScottK> No problem.
<jussi01> :D
 * mdomsch needs some pointers
<mdomsch> people using my dell-firmware repository on linux.dell.com for updating their system BIOS
<mdomsch> now see that 'apt-get upgrade', called several times, always re-downloads the packages
<mdomsch> for system-bios-*
<sistpoty> hi folks
<mdomsch> over and over and over again, and installs them, over and over and over again
<mdomsch> The following packages will be upgraded:
<mdomsch>    system-bios-poweredge-2950 (1.5.1-1 => 1.5.1-1)
<mdomsch>    system-bios-ven-0x1028-dev-0x01a8 (0.a09-1 => 0.a09-1)
<mdomsch> I'm at my wits end trying to figure out why
<sistpoty> mdomsch: did you check bugs against apt yet? (though only getting part of what you wrote, it looks like one to me)
 * persia wonders if the MOTU Meeting is really scheduled for 20:00 UTC
<DktrKranz> persia, it is.
<sistpoty> persia: now?
<persia> sistpoty: I think.
<sistpoty> persia: thanks... I completely forgot to check when it is *g*
<DktrKranz> probably all of us... -meeting is quite calm now
<mdomsch> sistpoty, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=351056 sounds similar, but I don't know if it's the same
<ubotu> Debian bug 351056 in apt "apt-get always install the same two packages during upgrade or dist-upgrade" [Important,Open]
<sistpoty> motu meeting just started, please everyone join #ubuntu-meeting
<Ubulette> persia, fyi, prism has finally been sponsored (pitti rejected it once because of the MPL file)
<Ubulette> should I nuke it on REVU ?
<persia> Ubulette: Not nuke.  It should have been archived by the sponsor.  I'll archive after the MOTU Meeting.
<Ubulette> ok
<jonnymind> ppl, I don't know if this is the right place to ask, so plz. forgive me if not. Is there anything else I have to do about the "falcon" package I uploaded in REVU?
<ScottK> jonnymind: This is the best place to ask.
<jonnymind> :-)
<ScottK> jonnymind: Have you gotten any review comments on it yet?
<jonnymind> No
<imbrandon> hrm "falcon" ? seems like we have a namespace issue , Seveas did you know about this falcon ? heh
<ScottK> jonnymind: If you're around, you can ask for a review (with the link to your package on REVU) and maybe solicit interest.
<jonnymind> Ok.
<jonnymind> imbradon: about the namespace thing, I may suggest "falconpl" (for falcon programming language)
<ScottK> Mondays (AET) are revu days and you can ask more often, but generally asking once a day is considered polite.
<jonnymind> I made clear that the uploaded package is a "tentative" package, and has to be re-done anyway.
<jonnymind> Ok, thanks. I'll be around next monday to ask politely ;-)
<ScottK> You can ask before then.
<ScottK> Just not more than once a day.
<jonnymind> Ok. I'll stick to the rules.
<jonnymind> So, I have asked enough for today ;-)
<jonnymind> I don't wanna distract you while in the meeting, sorry.
<ScottK> No problem.
 * jonnymind is away: Sono occupato
<norsetto> proppy: hmmmm, any link you want to share?
<proppy> norsetto: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/ContributorREVU
<proppy> norsetto: trying to write a spec on how non MOTU should post comment to review
<proppy> norsetto: maybe you can help ?
<norsetto> proppy: is that a spec on what exactly?
<proppy> norsetto: it popped during the #motu-meeting
<proppy> ***persia proposes the drafting of a spec for how non-MOTUs would comment, for general review
<proppy> sistpoty: [IDEA] fix revu to allow non-motu contributors
<proppy> MootBot: IDEA received:  fix revu to allow non-motu contributors
<proppy> persia: proppy: Would you be up for drafting a spec for how Contributors would add REVU comments?
<proppy> ScottK: proppy: How about you make a first draft?
<norsetto> proppy: ok, so is a spec for a functionality to be implemented in REVU.
<ScottK> proppy: I really don't have time.  I volunteered someone else for a reason.
<apache|mobile> <-- evil headache
<ScottK> norsetto: Also process changes in MOTU.
<norsetto> proppy: hehe, I see you were volunteered hunanimously
<ScottK> norsetto: This is what he gets for raising the idea.
<proppy> norsetto: I said I was ok :)
<norsetto> apache|mobile: dave morris would like you to confirm your advocation in light of the lastest changes. Can you do that?
<apache|mobile> norsetto: what pacakge?
<proppy> norsetto: I don't know how to say 'no'
<norsetto> proppy: NO?
<proppy> norsetto: ARG put this away from me
<norsetto> proppy: try the japanese obsequios referential form ....
<proppy> norsetto: yep and ScottK is right I raised the idea so I should at least bootstrap the spec
<norsetto> proppy: what do we need a spec for, isn't enough just to leave it as is just precluding contributors from advocating?
<proppy> maybe when writing the spec we will figure that out :)
<proppy> writing the spec is all about facing the 'mental implentation' of it right ?
<norsetto> proppy: I'm of the school "killing a fly with a bazooka might not always be appropriate"
<norsetto> proppy: but, ok, first of all, what is it that we want?
<norsetto> oh spec left ....
<norsetto> poor spec :-)
<norsetto> apache|mobile: ccptest
<apache|mobile> will have a look
<proppy> norsetto: first I should restore the SpecTemplate i've just overwritten :)
<norsetto> proppy: write it down in your twigglydiggly wiki and we edit it together
<proppy> norsetto: done https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
<proppy> norsetto: you read in my mind :)
<proppy> norsetto: I hate centralized stuff, since I m not cautious, I always break something :)
<ScottK> You two could always use Gobby.
<norsetto> scottk: vade retro gobby!
 * ScottK doesn't know what that is supposed to mean.
<norsetto> go away gobby! (like the exorcist saying it to the devil ....)
<norsetto> scottk: just latin, say it to fake being cool and wise and all that
<proppy> ScottK: I never used gobby
<proppy> ScottK: this seems more suited to live edition
<ScottK> proppy: It's easy enough and it lets you both edit the document at the same time.
<proppy> ScottK: let's apt-get install it
<ScottK> You and norsetto.
<ScottK> You can use gobby.ubuntu.com to put your document while you work on it.
<proppy> wiki are good for async process
<norsetto> its funny ,when you say You and norsetto. its red on my screen and I can hear your voice
<proppy> norsetto: I've setup http://proppy.aminche.com/REVUContributor.html
<proppy> norsetto: but let's try gobby
<ScottK> Cool.
<Ubulette> anyone for bug 174739 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174739 in seamonkey "[needs-packaging] seamonkey 1.1.7" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174739
<ScottK> Ubulette: Didn't we used to have that and it got removed?
<Ubulette> it's back
<Ubulette> !info seamonkey hardy
<ubotu> seamonkey: The Seamonkey Internet Suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 25 kB, installed size 92 kB
<ScottK> Ubulette: Then the bug should be upgrade, not needs-packaging.
<Ubulette> ScottK, ok, what should I use then ?
<ScottK> Ubulette: Change the tag from needs-packaging to upgrade.
<Ubulette> done
<Flare183> How do i create the dsc file?
<norsetto> flare138: debuild or dpkg-buildpackage
<Flare183> k
<Flare183> problem: http://flare183.pastebin.ca/808799
<Flare183> How do I fix it?
<stdin> Flare183: install cdbs
<Flare183> k
<stdin> and build-dep on it too
<Flare183> ok
<Flare183> Now it says that it failed to sign .dsc and .changes file
<Flare183> What should i do
<geser> Flare183: does your uid on your key match the Changed-By value in .changes? (including any comments)
<Flare183> no
<Flare183> i can fix that
<Flare183> i can't remember how, how do i go about doing so?
<frenchy> Hi there!  Should a man page contain a GPL header?
<geser> Flare183: set DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL and dch will use this values for this
<proppy> should I post https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/ContributorREVU to the ML ?
<proppy> following the meeting minutes ?
 * proppy thanks a lot norsetto, for writing this together
 * sistpoty needs to go to bed now... gn8 everyone
<proppy> gn8
<pschulz01> what's the 'best/easiest' way of pulling in a new upstream release?
<norsetto> pschulz01: package it yourself
<pschulz01> Ok.. yes.. but..
<norsetto> pschulz01: but?
<pschulz01> norsetto: I have a new upstrean tar.gz.
<pschulz01> norsetto: I have my exisitng diff.
<pschulz01> norsetto: Do I just.. rename new tar to 'orig.tar.gz', untar, apply my diff, and the dpkg-buildpackage?
<norsetto> pschulz01: it all depends whats new
<norsetto> pschulz01: is there any change in copyright/license?
<pschulz01> norsetto: new upstream release :-)
<norsetto> pschulz01: is there a change which need to modify configure/make options?
<pschulz01> Let's say there isnt.
<norsetto> pschulz01: is there a change which need new/modified maintainer scripts?
<pschulz01> No
<norsetto> pschulz01: new things to be installed? Old things to be removed?
<pschulz01> (not at this stage.. I might make soem changes shortly)
<pschulz01> norsetto: These are all changes in the 'debian' directory.. which I will be happy to modify.. once I've moved from 3.0.0 to 3.0.1
<pschulz01> Then I can go nuts with 3.0.1-1 (etc.)
<norsetto> pschulz01: perhaps we need to update few things, like .desktop file, standard version, compatibility level, menu
<pschulz01> norsetto: What the? No. Command line app.. (perl)
<norsetto> pschulz01: well, if its just a new tarball and don't need anything, just package it. The current procedure is to provide an interdiff but apparently we are changing it, so I'm not sure if that is still advisable
<norsetto> pschulz01: you just need to change the changelog obviously
<norsetto> pschulz01: is this an ubuntu package or a debian one?
<pschulz01> norsetto: neither at this stage... I'm building debs.
<norsetto> pschulz01: wait a second, you mean is a completely new package?
<pschulz01> norsetto: I'm building on my gutsy, and will submit to Ubuntu at some stage.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-08
<norsetto> pschulz01: this link should answer all your needs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<pschulz01> DarkMageZ: Not really..  I want to know how to go from an upstream release 3.0.0 to 3.0.1 (say), given that I have the packaging source (diff) for 3.0.0
<LaserJock> pschulz01: cp the new tarball to an .orig.tar.gz and then unpack it and drop in the old debian/
<DarkMageZ> like LaserJock said. then just add a changelog entry and build
<DarkMageZ> pschulz01, yes. it's really that easy.
<Fujitsu> .. or just use uupdate!
<LaserJock> yep
 * DarkMageZ must look @ this uupdate tool
<proppy> Fujitsu: watch/file buddy ?
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: I think that was what I was after in the first place!
<Fujitsu> proppy: What?
<proppy> Fujitsu: I mean is uupdate related to debian/watch file or am I completly mistaken ?
<LaserJock> related, but not dependent I don't think
<Fujitsu> uscan uses uupdate if it finds a new upstream.
<proppy> ok :)
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: Woot! That worked.
<Fujitsu> pschulz01: Great :)
<crimsun> I wonder why pulseaudio/i386 on hardy is showing pending still.
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: Now just have to keep doing it otherwise the information will fall off the bottom of my heap.
<crimsun> it's built and available for the other arches
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: No more tea breaks for me.
<LaserJock> crimsun: perhaps an arch: all backlog?
<crimsun> LaserJock: ...
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Pending == NEEDSBUILD
<Fujitsu> I presume you mean Currently Building.
<Fujitsu> Oh, wtf... It doesn't even have a builder assigned.
<Fujitsu> And there is no cprov to be found.
<TheMuso> Woohoo. Pulseaudio for Hardy can be set up to replace the system beep through the pc speaker with a sound of one's own choice.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yay!
<Fujitsu> crimsun: I saw a bug similar to that a couple of nights back, on a PPA.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah, I think its time we had something like this. KDE has had it for ages.
<crimsun> right.  It doesn't make sense that ndiswrapper, which was uploaded only today, is available in pool, while pulseaudio isn't for i386.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: ok, thanks.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Note how it is labeled as building but has no builder or start date.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: right.
<Fujitsu> == great example of Soyuz's reliability.
<TheMuso> Why is pulseaudio i386 only now currently building?
<TheMuso> I suspect thats what you are talking about.
<crimsun> TheMuso: yes, that's the symptom which is apparently a known issue.
<TheMuso> Right
<crimsun> (apologies for the gnome-audio snafu)
<TheMuso> np
<TheMuso> hardy ubuntu-desktop deps are somewhat broken atm anyway, so new installs can't easily be done for the desktop at least.
<TheMuso> How long has that been building? I get the feeling for a while now.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: It's not building. Note the lack of builder or start time.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: ah ok.
 * TheMuso pulls the source and builds locally. I want to do some testing.
<norsetto> night all
<TheMuso> Would a give back solve that?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: It may, but it could well not show the button.
<Fujitsu> s/may/probably would/
<LaserJock> anybody seen this gtk packaging GUI called debcreator?
<crimsun> (https://launchpad.net/debcreator)
<crimsun> eeek.
<crimsun> it looks like text entry fields for control, etc.
<crimsun> (is it really adding anything to the end user besides window decorations?)
<pschulz01> Does anyone know of a good example of a perl (cgi) package that hooks into Postgres/Mysql. I'm looking for suitable setup scripts.
<jscinoz> this is so strange...
<jscinoz> I'm trying to package iourt (a modified ioquake3 engine) from source.. if i build it quickly just using "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" it works just fine.. but if i do it properly "debuild -S -sa" then "sudo pbuilder --build ../iourt-4.0-0ubuntu1.dsc" the compile fails >_<
<persia> jscinoz: Could you put your build output in a pastebin?  It sounds like a missing build-dependency
<DarkMageZ> you'll need to have all the dependencies from ioquake3 in the control file + any extra to cover the modifications
<jscinoz> yeah one second.
<jscinoz> just going to try it first with a small tweak to debian/rules
<jscinoz> persia, heres as much output before the scroll limit http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/47312/
<persia> jscinoz: OK.  Could you paste debian/control ?
<jscinoz> yeah one sec.
<jscinoz> http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/47313/
<persia> jscinoz: Yep.  You need to include the SDL libraries in Build-Depends:
<jscinoz> ah
<jscinoz> just libsdl-dev?
<jscinoz> silly mistake >_<
<persia> jscinoz: Grep in /usr/include for SDL_UnloadObject, and then find the package that provides the containing file.
<jscinoz> yep it was libsdl1.2-dev
<jscinoz> all good now :)
<jscinoz> doh >_< i forgot to include the .desktop file i made for it >_<
<LaserJock> persia: have you already made a run through ~u-u-s bugs today?
<persia> LaserJock: Not yet.
<LaserJock> hmm, should I take a Kmos bug?
<persia> LaserJock: No reason not to do so: just look at it with care.
<LaserJock> hmm, it's a little fishy but it's getting there
<LaserJock> I still think it's a bit overkill to add a patch system for a one line diff
<persia> I don't think it's worth it.
<LaserJock> yeah, but is it worth telling somebody to redo the debdiff
<LaserJock> especially when another MOTU said they should add the patch?
<LaserJock> seems like people are giving mixed messages
 * persia grumbles at people who insist on patch systems
<persia> LaserJock: Are there any other patches to the package in the diff.gz?
 * StevenK appears
<LaserJock> persia: it's a native package ...
<jscinoz> argh.. stupid question but.. what is the syntax to leave a blank line in the long-description in debian/control?
<StevenK> jscinoz: " ."
<persia> LaserJock: I7d suggest that a native package should never have a patch system.  That just doesn't make any sense at all.
<persia> LaserJock: Yes, it's worth redoing the debdiff, and yes, it's worth slapping the MOTU who advocated a patch system for a native package.
<jscinoz> thanks stevenk
<ScottK> LaserJock: What bug?
<LaserJock> bug #174239
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174239 in dhelp "Please merge dhelp 0.6.5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174239
 * ScottK looks to see who needs slapping.
<LaserJock> hmmpf
<LaserJock> I have to say, working on his bugs aren't very easy
 * TheMuso avoids kmos bugs, and has done so for a while now.
<StevenK> LaserJock: He doesn't make them very easy, either.
<TheMuso> I've dealt with enough of them to know that he's not likely to get a clue any time soon.
<persia> Yes.  He's often right about many things, despite being wrong about others.
<TheMuso> And I hope, but at at the same time doubt, that he'll request syncs for packages after debian import freeze for good reasons.
<LaserJock> so he made a changed one thing in the Makefile, but then includes a changelog entry that  references a different change
<ScottK> IMO the odds do make it worth betting the opportunity cost of what I didn't do if I expend the time to look.
<persia> LaserJock: That's unfortunately exceedingly common: acceptable work with seemingly random documentation :(
<ScottK> TheMuso: He'd been told even before the first round of mass sync bugs for Gutsy not to do it, so don't get too focused on that hope.
<TheMuso> ScottK: As I said, I doubt it.
<persia> LaserJock: In this case, consider reviewing the patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dhelp/+bug/174239/comments/17, which is perhaps more sensible.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174239 in dhelp "Please merge dhelp 0.6.5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<ScottK> Well until I was doing research for my recent request to the MC, I didn't know he'd been told not to even before the first time.
<persia> Strangely, back in feisty close / gutsy open, the work was of higher quality.
<ScottK> Well let's get it fixed then.  We'll recruit an army of new people who have no experience to help out and that'll solve the kwality problem.
<Hobbsee> oh dear.
 * Hobbsee looks up backscroll
<LaserJock> persia: what was of higher quality?
<persia> ScottK: Well, no, but it will increase the volume of work, which may be good.
<persia> LaserJock: Submissions from kmos
<Fujitsu> Well, we've got some easy tasks for new contributors.
<Fujitsu> Namely tailing Kmos.
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, I think perhaps he's doing some of it on purpose to spite some people
<ScottK> Ah.  I thought persia was making a broad statement.
<ScottK> LaserJock: I actually don't think he has a dishonest bone in his body.  The scary part is that he really is doing his best.
 * TheMuso chuckles at the e2fsprogs mail on gutsy-changes
<persia> ScottK: No.  Specific.  Broadly, I think new contributors always make mistakes, and after 10-15 bugs reach a level where their work is demonstrably good (or they leave before reaching that number).
<LaserJock> ScottK: but why would the quality go down?
<DarkMageZ> what's this kmos thing? it keeps on getting refered to...
<Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Kmos is a contributor.
<Hobbsee> fsvo contributor.
<Hobbsee> contributor to what, though?
<ScottK> DarkMageZ: Kmos is probably the most painfully disruptive person we've had show up here to 'help'.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I get them all the time.
<persia> DarkMageZ: A specific person whose Contributions often don't meet sponsor requirements, and whose submissions take a larger volume of sponsoring time than those of others.
<Fujitsu> Though what the heck happened there? Security uploads aren't announced...
<ScottK> LaserJock: I dunno.  Maybe he's getting nervous.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: if he reqeusts a whole bunch of syncs after DIF, he is going to die a horrible, painful death.
<ScottK> LaserJock: Don't ask me to explain how his mind works.  I've already got a headach.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I'd like to think he's not doing it on purpose
<Hobbsee> i *doubt* he's that stupid to try again
<DarkMageZ> kmos = microsoft sabotor?
<ScottK> LaserJock: I don't think he is.
<persia> Hobbsee: Careful: there may be reasons for the syncs.  I tend to request heaps of them, especially for edge stuff (not libraries).
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: may as well be.  have a look at the messages for this month on motu-council@l.u.c
<Hobbsee> persia: having seen the last lot...
<ScottK> DarkMageZ: I don't think so, but he's the primary reason I'm not doing UUS anymore.
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes, I know.  Still, I find that > 70% of his requests actually have some root in a good thing (although it would be quicker for me to address it directly than sort out what he is trying to do).
<Hobbsee> persia: then in the interests of time, i'd suggest you take the latter option.
<Hobbsee> :)
 * Fujitsu likes the addition to /+builds.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, the pre-DIF ones are.
<Hobbsee> persia: the post-DIF ones just seem to be "sync it because it has changes in debian, and might fix bugs"
<persia> Hobbsee: Even post-DIF (but I'm an advocate of continued selected syncs / merges post-DIF for non-libraries).
<persia> I'd be happy to see lots of sync requests if the update in Debian fixes a known issue.
<persia> (this does, however, require documentation of the issue)
 * ScottK feels he has done his duty and more wrt Kmos (both helping him when that seemed possible and lately), so whatever happens, he's done with it.
<persia> ScottK: Good plan.  Less stress for you :)
<ScottK> Yeah.
<LaserJock> ok, I think he got this one right
<persia> LaserJock: Now for the fun question: would it take you half an hour to process the merge directly?
<LaserJock> hmm, probably not
<ScottK> And this gets into the negative value thing.  Even when he's right, he suck the productivity out of people.
<LaserJock> although he caught something I probably wouldn't have
<LaserJock> although I don't know that it's really very important
<Hobbsee> the more bugs he files, and the more people become accepting of his low level of quality, (not necessarily accepting the bugs, but not telling him "please don't do this again", and making sure he doesn't) the less i feel like i can be a part of the team.
 * Hobbsee shrugs
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: right, but it's difficult to blanket reject somebody
<persia> Hobbsee: How can we "make sure"?
<Hobbsee> lock the LP account.
<Hobbsee> MC hasn't appeared to actually do anything about it yet.
 * persia notes that LP accounts are easy to open
<LaserJock> this is a volunteer, contributor run organization we need to figure out good ways of dealing with such things
<Hobbsee> this is true, but there are ways around it.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: You can't ignore him?
<persia> StevenK: Ignoring is hard: he clutters the sponsors queues, and other fora
<Hobbsee> StevenK: it's a perception of quality over the entire MOTU project, rather than ignoring a particular contributor
<StevenK> persia: True.
<persia> Further, the work he reviews often needs doing, and blanket rejecting it makes it not appetising to someone else.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Oh, your point is he smears our reputation and drags us all down?
<Hobbsee> if the quality has dropped to his substandard level, then why should i put in time attempting to fix it?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: exactly.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you put that very well.
 * ScottK is back.  I had to get alcohol.
<Hobbsee> *giggles*
<Hobbsee> very large amounts?
<StevenK> ScottK: You're starting the -motu drinking game?
 * Hobbsee drinks, in preparation for work
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Not yet.  The topic just had me headed for the liquor cabinet for solace.
<ScottK> StevenK: Every time I complain everyone has to take a drink.
<StevenK> ScottK: Then we'll all get smashed in about ten minutes?
 * StevenK ducks
<ScottK> StevenK: Isn't that the point of drinking games?
<StevenK> Heh, yeah well
<StevenK> Bit early to start drinking here, anyway.
<ScottK> Speaking of mistakes, openssl097 got removed from partner today.
<StevenK> It got removed like two days ago
<ScottK> It's still today for me.
 * StevenK doesn't look at -partner
<Hobbsee> and my computer decided to freeze, when looking at the issue, clearly
<LaserJock> heh, this is kinda silly
 * ScottK doesn't as a rule, but when I saw an upload with a remote code execution unpatched (that I'd expended time to get out of Universe) on gutsy-changes, I got interested.
<ScottK> LaserJock: Which?
<LaserJock> the Makefile checks the debian/changelog for the package version, and then check to see if the version is the same as what is in the Makefile
<LaserJock> so every time you update the changelog you gotta change the Makefile
 * StevenK drops his shovel, and fires up the backhoe to dig through the net-snmp merge.
<ScottK> Note that the common thread between Kmos and the openssl097 upload is that more and more of us (IMO) have come to view public shaming as the only way to correct bad work.
<StevenK> But public shaming has had no effect on him!
<LaserJock> ScottK: ah, right
<ScottK> StevenK: Not that we didn't try.
<LaserJock> that was kinda rough
<ScottK> LaserJock: Which, the blog post on openssl?
<StevenK> He's like bad in-laws, he just keeps coming back.
<LaserJock> ScottK: yeah
<LaserJock> that should have been an email to -devel methinks
<ScottK> LaserJock: I disagree.  It's partner, it's not part of the Ubuntu development process.
<LaserJock> hmm, I guess
<LaserJock> although I generally consider partner to be a part of the grand Ubuntu universe
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Did you see Colin's comment on the partner-isn't-Ubuntu-you-stupid-LP bug?
<ScottK> LP has been modified to make it look like part of Ubuntu (separate issue), but it's not.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Yes I did.
 * Fujitsu wasn't pleased.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I didn't, point me at the bug?
<Fujitsu> Parter should be a special case of PPA.
<Fujitsu> *Partner
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: about?
<persia> LaserJock: Ummm..  As a Master of the Universe who can't upload to Partner, I think you'd see it different.
<Fujitsu> Bug #153798
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153798 in soyuz "canonical partner repo packages showing as "in ubuntu"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153798
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.
<Fujitsu> persia: What?
<LaserJock> persia: why?
<persia> Fujitsu: "Partner should be a special case of PPA"
<Fujitsu> Ah, yes.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Well I like that he supported the concept that it was wrong.  He's not an LP dev, so I don't worry so much about his, it'll be hard.
<persia> LaserJock: You aren't the master?
<LaserJock> persia: heh, I see
<StevenK> Fujitsu: What's wrong with that?
<ScottK> When I see a non-canonical person with upload rightw to partner, then there's something to discuss.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I see nothing displeasing about Colin's comment.
<ScottK> rightw/rights
<LaserJock> well, it just doesn't bother me what they do much with partner
<persia> LaserJock: And rightly.
<LaserJock> and I consider it to be generally a part of broader Ubuntu
<ScottK> LaserJock: It only bother's me to the extent it affects Ubuntu's reputation.
<LaserJock> so I would consider -devel an ok place to ask questions about it
<ScottK> Uploading known vulnerable software is not a good step.
<LaserJock> for lack of a better place perhaps
<ScottK> imbrandon blogging got people's attention.
 * persia suggests that the issue is resolved, and that there are >1000 issues open that we can resolve that are more worthy of discussion
<LaserJock> persia: sure, it's just an interesting thing
<ScottK> persia: True, but the meta issue is relevant.
<LaserJock> I generally try to only blog positive things
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Does it not basically say it won't be resolved in the near future?
<LaserJock> but what about when bad things happen, should be discuss things in blogs or no
<persia> ScottK: LaserJock: Agreed, but I don't think this is a useful forum for resolution of those issues.
<LaserJock> that's the interesting part to me
<ScottK> Fujitsu: But that's about like me saying a Gnome bug will be tought to fix, so don't hold your breath.
<ScottK> LaserJock: If we only talk about the good stuff we are marketing, not being a community.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: This is something that is clearly wrong and most misleading.
<LaserJock> ScottK: yeah, but throwing around the dirty laundry isn't necessarily great either
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'd say if people don't want blog entries about vulnerable software being uploaded to Ubuntu, then they shouldn't do it.
 * persia wonders if it's worth regenerating all the source packages that use the Homepage: header that were sync'd / merged prior to the new dpkg.
<ScottK> Additionally, I think proprietary developers working in a FOSS space get less slack.
<ScottK> persia: I'd say no.
<Fujitsu> persia: The round of rebuilds will catch that, when/if we do them, so I'd wait...
<LaserJock> ScottK: proprietary developers?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Partner is not a FOSS repository.
<persia> Fujitsu: Rebuilds for uploads?  These would all be new-in-hardy packages.
<Fujitsu> persia: It's likely that most will be uploaded again at some point, but we'll see...
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Good point.
<Fujitsu> Those that have been merged likely have maintainers that are alive.
<persia> Fujitsu: Hmm..  But are such maintainers concerned?  I just don't know if it's actually an issue.  The package works, it's just the Homepage listings were silently dropped in many cases.  Likely only affects packages.ubuntu.com, if that code is updated to look for the header.
<Fujitsu> persia: I meant maintainers in Debian, such that there will be a new version to merge before DIF. But I guess we're far too close for that now.
<persia> Fujitsu: That was my thought.  Further, I don't think syncs need rebuild, just merges / refreshes / REVU / patches.
<persia> Anyway, I think you're right: it's a late-cycle thing to look to see what packages with Homepage: were uploaded before the new dpkg, and check to see if they still need refresh just before release.
<Fujitsu> It would have been a whole lot better if dpkg had been merged earlier.
<StevenK> To Ubuntu or Debian?
<Fujitsu> The former.
<persia> StevenK: to Ubuntu (and, yes, we're all guilty)
<StevenK> But merging dpkg is *hard*
<persia> StevenK: That's why it was delayed :)
<LaserJock> ok, we'll see if I got shot for this
 * StevenK shoots LaserJock 
<persia> LaserJock: what?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: ponies!
<StevenK> Right!
<LaserJock> persia: uploading kmos' debdiff
 * persia thinks LaserJock is immune to being shot for ponies
<StevenK> LaserJock: PONIES!
<persia> LaserJock: Remember, it's about the work, not the person.  Certain people just cause more effort when reviewing work.  Please leave a description of what should be done better next time in a comment.
<LaserJock> persia: it was actually good except for adding the patch thing, which was nixternal's fault anyway ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: In which case, the comment should reflect that.
 * persia notes that occasional rare praise is a good seasoning for excoriation.
<ScottK> Hello stratus.  I didn't notice you there.
<LaserJock> persia: I set it to "Fix Committed" is that alright?
<persia> LaserJock: That's what I do: it's not mandatory.  The changelog should be closing the bug.
<LaserJock> right, I just didn't want to leave a comment saying I uploaded without changing the status
<Fujitsu> It's fairly useless to set it these days; sources have publishing records create as uploads are processed, so the bug will be closed within 5 minutes of the dput.
<Fujitsu> s/create/created/
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I just wanted the record
<persia> Fujitsu: Agreed.  It's only meaningful in rare cases.
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> this person bumped the version for each time he attached a new debdiff
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<persia> LaserJock: Someone from Debian mentors I expect.  Disabuse them gently, please.
<LaserJock> persia: you know I'm a softy ;-)
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> I think they provided debdiffs to a package they put on REVU
<persia> LaserJock: A new package?  Which bug?
<LaserJock> new upstream
<persia> LaserJock: We do new upstream in UUS as well.
<LaserJock> bug #174467
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174467 in gnome-schedule "Please sponsor gnome-schedule-1.2.1 into Hardy" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174467
<LaserJock> right, but they put the initial upstream on REVU and then put debdiffs for changes
<Fujitsu> That's special.
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  I see.  Generally we prefer all the changes wrapped in one revision, and an interdiff (until I can come up with something better: suggestions welcome)
<LaserJock> well, it would have been better to put it all on REVU IMO
<persia> LaserJock: I disagree, for all the reasons stated in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Interdiff
<LaserJock> I don't really see any reasons listed there
<persia> LaserJock: Sections 3 & 4: deprecated foo
<LaserJock> right, just found that
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> well if people review right it shouldn't be a problem, IMO
<persia> LaserJock: I consider the matter open for discussion: if you've a suggestion of a better way, please share.
<LaserJock> I see the point about it being a bit confusing to have both NEW and updated source packages on REVU
<LaserJock> but I don't see why a link to a dget'able would really be a problem
<persia> LaserJock: untrusted orig.tar.gz mostly.
<LaserJock> but I don't see an issue there
<LaserJock> if it's a matter of people not doing a proper job of reviewing shouldn't we fix that?
<persia> Essentially, anyone who can upload something gets root on millions of systems.  For those who are insufficiently trusted to be able to upload directly to Debian or Ubuntu, hiding something in the orig.tar.gz is a good way to do interesting things.
<LaserJock> right
<persia> LaserJock: How do we "fix that"?
<LaserJock> but that's the case always
<LaserJock> why wouldn't you check?
 * ScottK applauds persia's level of paranoia.
<LaserJock> we should just put in a New Upstream Release Review checklist to check the .orig.tar.gz
<persia> LaserJock: If policy doesn't require get-orig-source / working watch file, how can you check?
<LaserJock> you go and download the source
<LaserJock> that's what I do anyway
<persia> If policy does require it, why would you want to download it twice?
<persia> From where?
<LaserJock> from the site of the app
<LaserJock> same as you would with a NEW package
<persia> LaserJock: And how do you get the site of the app?  How about for repacks?
<LaserJock> debian/copyright should say where you got the app
<persia> LaserJock: I don't like it for NEW either, but I don't have a good model that allows the flexibility of REVU yet.
<LaserJock> and for repacks it should be documented
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  One of the goals of using interdiff is to change "should" to "must".
<LaserJock> but why not just make checking the .orig.tar.gz a  "must" then
<persia> LaserJock: No enforcement mechanism.
<LaserJock> it seems like added complexity
<LaserJock> persia: so? isn't that part of being a MOTU
<persia> LaserJock: I make mistakes.  I expect you to make mistakes.  More importantly, I don't expect anyone else to be as paranoid as I am.
<LaserJock> right, so we should have a minimal paranoid level and have that be policy
<LaserJock> but enforcement should be on MOTUs for the most part
<persia> LaserJock: Maybe.  I think it's easier just to not pass around large binary orig.tar.gzs that need reinspection.  Waste of bandwidth.
<LaserJock> hmm, perhaps
<LaserJock> but I've heard people having problems with interdiffs so I don't think we should make it mandatory
<LaserJock> sounds like it might be a good practice and a recommendation
<persia> LaserJock: What sorts of problems?
 * persia is working on a new system, but wants more input
<LaserJock> not being able to recreate the package correctly
<persia> LaserJock: Do you have an example?
<LaserJock> no sorry
<LaserJock> I just remember like a week ago or so somebody saying in here that they were screwed cause the interdiff didn't work, but they may have resolved it
<ScottK> LaserJock: Were you at the meeting today?
<persia> The only cases I've encountered so far were broken watch files, lack of get-orig-source for repacks, contributors sending interdiff -z -p1 foo bar.
<persia> Oh, and one case where the new package didn't match upstream (as upstream hadn't released yet).
<LaserJock> ScottK: no sorry, I've actually never been able to make a MOTU Meeting in the last year or so :(
 * StevenK wonders if the dpkg in Debian now has triggers.
 * Fujitsu forgot about the meeting.
<ScottK> LaserJock: No problem.  Just we discussed this today.  Someone (I don't recall who) persia? has started a script to make the interdiff bit easier.
<persia> My (weak) script is at http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/process-interdiff (as it has been since the Interdiff docs were posted)
<ScottK> Hey everyone...
<LaserJock> persia: do you have to have a watch file or get-orig-source for interdiff to work?
<ScottK> I'd like to introduce/reintroduce stratus.
<stratus> hey :)
<ScottK> stratus is a DD interested in becomeing a MOTU.
<LaserJock> hi stratus
<ScottK> In fact he was my first Debian sponsor.
<persia> LaserJock: No, it just makes reconstruction of orig.tar.gz lots easier, and the lack of a working watch file is considered a bug in Debian.
<stratus> hey LaserJock, what's up? :)
<persia> stratus: Welcome.
<LaserJock> stratus: workin' on stuff ;-)
<stratus> persia: hey, thanks! :)
<stratus> LaserJock: heh as usual, I guess.
<LaserJock> persia: hmm, I'm not sure I totally agree with that
<LaserJock> stratus: yeah
<LaserJock> persia: I've run across sources that may be impossible to automate getting the .orig.tar.gz
<persia> LaserJock: Which?  That a watch file should be required?  Especially with team maintenance, how else are we to know about new upstream versions?
<stratus> btw, I've forwarded ScottK a entire new package and I will have some patches to other stuff anytime soon
<persia> LaserJock: I don't believe you (for non-native).  Show me the package, and I'll write a get-orig-source.
<stratus> that's why I decided come out of the shadows again and become a MOTU, since it wil be easier upload by myself in due time
<persia> stratus: The best way to get your patches in is likely to attach a debdiff to a bug, and subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors queue.  That way, you don't need to rely only on ScottK (although that works too).
<ScottK> Which I'm going to upload for him (he's just moved and is currently GPG key contrained).
<stratus> persia: oh, I heard about that. thanks! :)
<LaserJock> persia: well, I'm pretty sure I've come across a few  science packages that had no machine downloadable sources
<ScottK> Assuming it builds and produces a sane package, I'll advocate it.
<stratus> I moved and then went on road to US, so decided to keep my priv key secured at $HOME :)
<persia> LaserJock: Really?  Please point me towards them if you encounter them again.  It's likely one of A) Odd upstream, B) Orphaned upstream (and in need of adoption), or C) very weak documentation.
<LaserJock> usually A, sometimes B
<persia> In the case of A), it's worth checking with upstream to find out why they don't distribute source, and inviting them to use one of the many fine distribution services.  In the case of B, it's worth adopting the package to a new project on one of those distribution services.
<LaserJock> there are a few that are no longer available online, but of course then we'd not be expecting a lot of new upstreams
<persia> LaserJock: That would be B), and I'd encourage the creation of a project on sourceforge, google code, launchpad, savannah, etc.
<persia> Err.  "one of" should be in there somewhere.
<LaserJock> well sure, that may be nice
<persia> LaserJock: Takes about 20 minutes :)
<LaserJock> I'm just saying that you can't assure that 100% of packages have a machine downloadable upstream
<persia> LaserJock: Further, it's essential to ensure the code can be shared between all distributions, making the general cause of free software stronger.
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I had a talk with Fink (OS X stuff) about watch files once
<LaserJock> they wanted to use Debian to track software, but since there were so few watch files it was impossible to do it
<LaserJock> perhaps the situation is much better now
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  For some things, watch files don't work (I've been given many cases), but even for those, one can construct an orig.tar.gz, as long as upstream exists.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> it's not currently that way
<persia> Further, for packages updated in Ubuntu, I think it's not much extra effort to generate the watch file / get-orig-source as compared to integrating the new upstream in the packaging.
<LaserJock> but it'd be nice
<persia> LaserJock: So, in the spirit of "it'd be nice", join in enforcement for new upstream candidates :)
<ScottK> persia: But we don't have (widely accepted) something like Debian QA page where you see when your packages need updating.
<LaserJock> hmm, that enforcement bit is what gets me ;-)
<persia> ScottK: What's wrong with http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/ ?  For stuff in Debian, I'll trust the maintainer, but for the rest...
<ScottK> persia: That's where the 'widely accepted' bit came in.  Now that we have that watch files make more sense, but people have to know about it.
<persia> ScottK: OK.  I admit I'm behind on documentation and annoucements :)
 * persia notes that others are more than welcome to advocate and promote QA efforts.
<ScottK> persia: Is that all of Ubuntu or just Universe?
<persia> ScottK: That's just packages in Ubuntu that aren't in Debian and haven't been removed from Debian.
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> (main+restricted+universe+multiverse)
<persia> Essentially, the stuff we're supposed to be maintaining.
<ScottK> It'd be interesting to add stuff that's been orphaned in Debian to that as it's officially unmaintained there too.
<persia> ScottK: Agreed.  Do you know an easy way to extract that list?
<pwnguin> ScottK: you defy the way of the TopPost?
<ScottK> pwnguin: I do.
<ScottK> persia: Maintainer is set to Debian QA group?
 * Fujitsu doesn't think that covers all of them.
<ScottK> Doesnt' that get set once something's officially orphaned?
<ScottK> Agreed that there's stuff that's abandoned unofficially?
<Fujitsu> On the first upload, probably.
 * Fujitsu adds them to the list.
<persia> Fujitsu: At least the vast majority, no?  The others would be MIA or ITO, but not yet orphaned, I think.
<Fujitsu> persia: By ITO you mean RFA?
<Fujitsu> Or is there an ITO?
 * persia checks
<persia> Fujitsu: http://www.infodrom.org/Debian/doc/acronyms.html tells me "Intend to Orphan" is distinct from "Request for Adoption"
<Fujitsu> Oh.
<persia> Hmm..  On the other hand, http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ tells me it should just be O:
<Fujitsu> I would have thought that RFA and ITO would have served similar purposes, right...
<Fujitsu> As if you're intending to orphan it, you're asking for somebody to adopt it, but it still has a maintainer, which is what RFA is for...
<persia> Fujitsu: I think it depends on the goal.  In the RFA case, the maintainer is looking for someone to take over, but will handle it in the meantime.  In the ITO case, the maintainer is declaring no further interest (which ought be O:, so perhaps I agree with you)
<Fujitsu> Hm, I guess.
<Fujitsu> Anyway.
<persia> So the new filter will be Ubuntu-local + Maintainer: Debian QA Group ?
<Fujitsu> I suspect so.
<jcastro> http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2007/12/ubuntu_innovates_excuses.html?CMP=OTC-0O724Z062301&ATT=Ubuntu+Innovates+Excuses
<jcastro> you guys see this?
<mgunes> jcastro, yes
<Fujitsu> jcastro: No, and it doesn't look like I really want to...
<LucidFox> Well, bah.
<jcastro> well, just wondering
<jcastro> I don't even know what aumix is
<LucidFox> It's just a rant based on a person's misunderstanding of the Ubuntu development process.
<persia> LucidFox: Well, perhaps.  It might also be that we expect a lot from our bug submitters.
<jcastro> hahah
<jcastro> dude, it's just some ncurses volume thing
<jcastro> the article made it seem like the world was collapsing
<persia> jcastro: It doesn't really matter what it is: we do the same thing for nearly all reports.  On the other hand, we usually try to fix them in the dev environment first, and are currently reworking our SRU processing to try to catch more of those.
<persia> Does anyone happen to know the status of current deliberations for appointing ~motu-sru members?
 * jcastro nods
<jcastro> persia: I would guess that you guys get dinged for every nook-and-cranny package
<persia> jcastro: Well, somewhat.  Bugsquad does an admirable job of filtering the requests.
<LaserJock> persia: it's RSN
<jcastro> persia: I was being sarcastic, given the stupidity of the article.
<LaserJock> jcastro: it's a semi-legit complaint, IMO, but it's kind of a weird thing to blog about
<persia> jcastro: Actually, I think the article addresses a valid point: we're very focused on our processes, and have begun to expect all bug submitters to participate.
<jcastro> well ...
<jcastro> I mean .. come on ...
<LaserJock> come on what?
<jcastro> i can think of 50 bugs right now that are more important
<persia> We'd do better if bugsquad was more freindly, and there were stronger filtering mechanisms feeding the Contributors.
<jcastro> than some console volume mixer
<LaserJock> we released an unusable package! that's uncool
<jcastro> I mean, yeah, I agree, having things busted sucks
<persia> jcastro: Maybe, but they are also likely harder.  That's a rebuild: takes all of two minutes to verify, and two minutes to sponsor.  Good for a new contributor.
<LaserJock> jcastro: it's actually a fairly used package I think, compared to much of Univerrse
<jcastro> I thought alsamixer was the popular curses volume package thing
<ScottK2> And if it's actually busted and it's actually a regression, it does qualify for an SRU.
<Fujitsu> 1569  aumix                           1967   260  1579   125     3 (Romain Francoise)
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: It was rejected because it apparently wasn't fixed in Hardy yet.
<persia> jcastro: Indeed, and aumix is not useful on most current Ubuntu systems, but it's still symptomatic of a larger issue.
<Fujitsu> (that's from the universe stats, so it's in the top 10%)
<mgunes> Hardy seems to have a newer version
<jcastro> persia: ok, so now /that/ statement makes sense to me
<ScottK> Well that's not a reason to reject it, just say not yet.
<jcastro> persia: I still think her bug is an edge case, but you guys are way more experienced in this kind of thing, so continue pls.
<persia> jcastro: Essentially, if we release something that's broken (even if it's useless), and it takes 5 minutes to fix, it's better to spend the 5 minutes.  It now being fixed in Hardy (new revision forced a rebuild), it should get SRU attention.  The SRU team doesn't currently exist, so it's in limbo.
<LaserJock> jcastro: what package it is is almost irrelevant
<mgunes> The person seems to interpret the declining of the SRU nomination as a "wontfix", which isn't the case; the bug's status is "Triaged".
<ScottK2> Well that's what decline means.
<persia> mgunes: Agreed.  The reporter would have done better to understand it.
<Fujitsu> I don't quite see why it was declined...
<LaserJock> yes, but it comes across as "well, we're gonna pass on a technicality"
 * persia prefers to leave nominations open until there is a specific reason for declination.
<jcastro> LaserJock: good point
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: because SRUs are supposed to be fixed in Hardy first
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That would at worst leave the task as New or Incomplete.
<Fujitsu> Declining says it will not be fixed in that release.
 * mgunes subscribes heno
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: what is it? I didn't bother to open it?
<LaserJock> mgunes: why?
<persia> LaserJock: Bug #145805
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145805 in aumix "aumix throws error aumix:  SOUND_MIXER_READ_DEVMASK" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145805
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: The task itself was declined.
<Fujitsu> jcastro: Thanks for pointing the article out.
<jcastro> LaserJock: I guess it just irks me that someone in the media won't bother to follow up on a bug
<mgunes> LaserJock, he may be interested in posting a clarification
<LaserJock> jcastro: dude, you can't expect *anybody* to work with our processes
<persia> jcastro: The trick is that it's not their job to do so.  It's the job of the Contributors (MOTU & not) to find the triaged bugs, and get the patches in.
<ScottK2> LaserJock: The comment that Henrik sounds like a pretty definitive fuck off we ain't fixing it.
<jcastro> well, I've had plenty of media people ask me about bugs
<persia> ScottK: Yes.  That's a separate issue, and also needs resolution.
<jcastro> she could have at least asked someone
<mgunes> ScottK2, it's a canned comment, isn't it?
<ScottK2> mgunes: It is, but it's the wrong one for this situation.
<persia> jcastro: I'd agree that asking a media contact before posting an article is preferable, but it doesn't address the actual issue, which is that the text is not ideal, and the task should not have been declined.
<LaserJock> well, that's a policy misunderstanding I think
<LaserJock> because a nomination doesn't mean the SRU is approved
<jcastro> persia: tbh, she's not exactly ubuntu friendly
<persia> jcastro: That's all the more reason why we should fix it internally :)
<jcastro> yeah
<LaserJock> a nomination should generally be accepted if it's got a chance of making it
<jcastro> I'm just whining about her at this point
<LaserJock> jcastro: :-)
<LaserJock> it's a bit much, but the complaint is legit in this case
<LaserJock> IMO at least
 * persia triages the bug again
<ScottK2> persia: Check what I just did first
<persia> ScottK: Excellent.  I'm testing, and expect to close the Hardy task.
<jcastro> persia: do you guys typically have your MOTU meetings the time you did today?
<Fujitsu> Thankyou ScottK2.
<ScottK2> BTW, when you decline a task, LP tells you "... Declining a nomination will show on the bug page that this bug will not be fixed in that specific release."
<persia> jcastro: We rotate between 12:00 UTC and 20:00 UTC.  Requests for 04:00 UTC have been few.
<ScottK2> So her understanding was exactly correct.
<jcastro> persia: does dholbach typically attend?
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: That's what I thought.
<persia> jcastro: About 75% of the time.  He noted he wouldn't make this one at the last one.
<jcastro> persia: ah ok.
<jcastro> persia: when he's absent and you need a canonical person to bitch at, I typically always idle on #u-motu and #u-meeting
<LaserJock> jcastro: why would we need to do that? :-)
<persia> jcastro: We try not to focus on canonical vs. non-canonical in those meetings: more about the community processes and goals for keeping universe in shape.
<jcastro> LaserJock: well, we're both on the community team
<ScottK2> What's the preferred approach in the .desktop file for a package that needs to run as root and can be used from within KDE and Gnome?
<jcastro> persia: well, what I wanted to say was that if you needed to get something to daniel I can do that for you
<persia> jcastro: You're more than welcome to attend, and your voice is appreciated, but it's not really a Canonical forum: those meetings are fortnightly on Thursday nights.
<ScottK2> Exec=gksu disk-manager isn't getting the job done in KDE.
<persia> jcastro: He (as all MOTUs) is expected to read the minutes :)
<jcastro> persia: I deal with upstreams, not MOTU, but we're still teammates, and since he's like 5 hours ahead of me, if he's asleep, I can help handle things
<jcastro> persia: noted (on the meetings)
<persia> jcastro: Thanks for that.  Any opinion on adopting orphaned upstreams into LP projects?
<jcastro> persia: I am dealing with one of those now
<ScottK2> persia: Why would we want to do that?
<jcastro> I don't know what the solution is
<persia> ScottK2: Sometimes orphaned code is useful.
<ScottK2> persia: Got any thoughts on my .desktop question above^^^
<persia> ScottK: No.  I suspect it has to do with the relation of gksu to KDE somehow.  I'm presuming that the same command also doesn't work from the command-line.
<ScottK2> No.  It wouldn't
<persia> ScottK: We've heaps & heaps of gksu in .desktop files.  Is there a way to get at least a wrapper in default KDE?
<ScottK2> persia: Dunno.  I'll ask ridell about it tomorrw.  I guess I'll just leave it gksu for now and sort it out later.
<Fujitsu> Hopefully everything will be using Root^WPolicyKit soon.
<persia> ScottK: Try with /usr/bin/su-to-root
<ScottK2> Trying
<ScottK2> persia: bash: /usr/bin/su-to-root: No such file or directory
<persia> ScottK: install the menu package.
<LucidFox> sikon@lucidfox:~$ which su-to-root
<LucidFox> /usr/sbin/su-to-root
 * persia grumbles about continuing disconnect between menu planning in Ubuntu and Debian
<LaserJock> yeah, loads of fun
<persia> Right.  So if su-to-root isn't available by default, and gksu doesn't work in KDE, how should packages gain root if they need it?
 * ScottK2 doesn't know.  That's why I asked.  Maybe imbrandon knows.
<LaserJock> well, kde apps would use kdesu I would assume
<LaserJock> but as far as DE-neutral I'm not sure
<ScottK2> LaserJock: Yes.  So then what would Gnome use.
<ScottK2> Yeah.  That's the problem.
<LaserJock> ScottK: kdesu ;-)
<ScottK2> I'm good with that.
<ScottK2> Actuall I think we have kdesudo now.
<ScottK2> Actuall/Actually
<persia> I'm not.
<LaserJock> that's why I install both ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop
<ScottK2> I wouldn't expect you to be.
<persia> LaserJock: Sure, but we can't expect everyone to do that.
<ScottK2> We aren't all so flexible
 * persia wants something that works for Gnome, KDE, XFCE, and Fluxbox
<ScottK2> If it's a Gnome app, maybe it should just depend on gksu?
<LaserJock> persia: of course
<jcastro> there's a spec for this
<jcastro> I know it was talked about at uds
<persia> jcastro: Do you happen to know which?  Also, do you know why we don't just use su-to-root, and include the menu package?
<persia> (or the code extracted therefrom)
<jcastro> in boston
<jcastro> I don't recall ever hearing anything about su-to-root
<jcastro> just a policykit session
<jcastro> let me dig it up
<persia> Ah.  PolicyKit.
<jcastro> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/killall-gksudo
<persia> jcastro: That solves a slightly different issue.  In the one case, the app shouldn't have root for most things, and should use PolicyKit (good for main), in the other upstream doesn't do this, and requires root to work, so we need su-to-root or the equivalent (for universe).
<jcastro> persia: I don't know one way or another what the implementation details of the spec are
<jcastro> I just know the discussion existed
<persia> jcastro: Understood :)
<persia> (and thanks for pointing to it)
<jcastro> we had david zeuthen join the discussion
<jcastro> which was cool
<jcastro> (the red hat guy)
<LaserJock> ScottK: maybe it's worth an email to -devel or -motu?
 * persia seconds LaserJock
<jcastro> persia: I've seen it working out on fedora8, it's pretty awesome ...
 * ScottK is doing actual packaging work right now, so would prefer someone else writes it.
<jcastro> it'll rock for hardy+1
<persia> jcastro: Agreed.  It's cool, it just requires big patches, which is hard for > 10,000 packages.
 * ScottK still has a hard time understanding the point of a common front end for dis-similar backends.
<jcastro> agreed
<persia> ScottK: That should happen when they perform a common function.  Does it matter if I use midori or konqueror?
<ScottK> persia: But they don't.  For one distro they manage RPMs and for another .debs.  They aren't the same.
<persia> Ah.  That's just odd.
 * TheMuso returns, guessing that the discussion is about policykit
<ScottK> TheMuso guesses right.
<LaserJock> wait
<LaserJock> packagekit or policykit
<ScottK> I looked at their web site and I still don't get it.
<jcastro> 2 different things LaserJock
 * ScottK is talking about packagekit actually.
<ScottK> Now that you mention it.
<LaserJock> jcastro: I know, it just looked like we were talking about both at the same time
 * persia doesn't really understand nor like packagekit.  The semantics of package management differ significantly between packaging systems.
<jcastro> persia: it has a backend thing
<jcastro> you can use the frontend on fedora or ubuntu and not be able to tell the difference
 * Fujitsu points persia at the somewhat expanded and up-to-date UEHS.
<jcastro> well, other than the amount of packages
<persia> jcastro: Sure, but the semantics differ.  The user goal might be to install a program, but what happens is different at a greater level than what dependencies are installed.
<jcastro> persia: hmm, true true
<LaserJock> jcastro: if we just got rid of Fedora/Madriva and RPMs we'd be set
<LaserJock> and openSUSe I guess
<persia> Fujitsu: Looks great.  Thanks.
<jcastro> I dunno
<jcastro> I like the idea of one update manager for everyone
<LaserJock> I think it makes sense
<LaserJock> I just wonder how the implementation will go
<LaserJock> and if it'll actually go that way
<LaserJock> people like to be different ;-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: Why not do one for Windows too then?
<LaserJock> well, I'm not gonna do one that's for sure
 * imbrandon points out there is apt for w32 and *_w32.deb files
 * ScottK neither, but I guess my point is that installing an RPM and a DEB are two almost totally different things.  I don't see the advantage to a common front end for two different things.
 * imbrandon goes back to sleep
<persia> LaserJock: Think diversity.  Without others, it's hard to compare and be strong.
<LaserJock> ScottK: because installing a DEB or RPM isn't the point, installing software is
<LaserJock> so the backend can handle the differences
<jcastro> imbrandon: dude, I'm stepping out for a smoke
<imbrandon> hehe
<jcastro> let's burn a virtual one.
<persia> jcastro: One update manager is nice in some ways, but because the way it works is so different, it will likely cause more confusion than happiness.  Essentially, what works for one person is likely to not work the same way for another.
<imbrandon> kk
<LaserJock> but the frontend allows people to write documentation easier and allows users a better experience
<persia> LaserJock: It's not just packaging differences: there are semantic differences.
<LaserJock> persia: how do you mean?
<jcastro> persia: let me have a smoke with imbrandon, I'll be back. :D
<persia> jcastro: You cold always move to a country that didn't require a break :)
<imbrandon> mmm instant mashed pataoes + bacon bits + cheeese + microwave == good after some crown and coke :)
<persia> LaserJock: 1) There isn't a firm mapping between RPMs and DEBs.  2) The nature of the meanings of Depends:, Recommends:, and Suggests: are slightly different, 3) Depending on distro choices, what may work somewhere breaks somewhere else (e.g. using VLC to generate JACK input for transforms of movie soundtracks)
<LaserJock> persia: to me that's all backend stuff though
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  To translate to front end: 1) means users need to install a different set of packages, 2) means that the functionality provided is undecidable, and 3) means that even when one tracks it down, it may not mean the same thing.
<jcastro> it is all backend stuff.
<jcastro> persia: to fill you in ...
<imbrandon> what did i walk into, deb vs rpm? you all rember one thing, deb and rpm are VERY VERY similar file formats, now if you mean rpm vs dpkg thats totaly diffrent
<persia> As a result, user forums for packaging kit have little to share except for a single distibution, further splintering things.  Because the backend is exposed, all users of e.g. synaptic can share their experiences for Debian, Ubuntu, MEPIS, etc.
<jcastro> persia: there was a packagekit bof at fosscamp, and there ubuntu guys there, fedora, and rpath guys.
<jcastro> and to be honest there was no real debate
<jcastro> everyone loves PK
<jcastro> the suse guys dig it too
<persia> jcastro: Sure.  I suspect they arrived at some useful commonalities.  I still think the sematics are different, and that the participants are awed by excellent execution, and not thinking about support.
<jcastro> the discussion was all about backends
<jcastro> synaptic isn't going away, for example, or apt or anything
<TheMuso> IMO if someone comes up with a way to binary patch packages, as in, downlading only patches to change binaries, and not the whole package, they will win support from all.
<TheMuso> downloading
<persia> jcastro: Unless we all package the same software by the same name with the same structure of Dependencies, Recommendations, and Suggestions, I'm still not happy, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.
<jcastro> the idea is that everyone has the same update-manager
<LaserJock> persia: why would it matter?
<LaserJock> I don't quite get it
<imbrandon> persia: why would that matter
 * TheMuso agrees with persia 
<imbrandon> persia: htat would make one better than the other but still, even debian and ubuntu differ on those respoects
<persia> LaserJock: Because the two users of different distributions cannot expect the same behaviour from the same set of actions.  This is not currently the case for Fedora+SuSE or Debian+Ubuntu+MEPIS
<persia> imbrandon: Not very much, semantically.
<imbrandon> persia: sure it is
<crimsun> I often wonder why we don't rsync our package updates.
<imbrandon> very much dosent == not at all
<TheMuso> crimsun: You'd need a deb to base it on locally would you not.
<TheMuso> s/./?/
<persia> imbrandon: Sure, but it's expanded greatly when you mix with Fedora/SuSE
<jcastro> persia: spend sometime reading the PK docs, and playing with the ppa
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Load on servers.
<jcastro> it's actually quite sweet
<jcastro> crimsun: hi btw!
<persia> jcastro: I can't play with a PPA without allowing arbitrary upload to the repos
<imbrandon> persia: i think the percption between the diffrences of ubuntu and debian are small but in reality are very very difffrent
<imbrandon> even in this case
<persia> imbrandon: Sure, but not very different semantically.
<LaserJock> but why does it matter?
<LaserJock> all the user wants to do is install app X
<jcastro> persia: I'm using deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/packagekit/ubuntu gutsy main
<persia> LaserJock: So that all the random web pages out there don't offer advice that very well may not work for a given user, causing a general dissatisfaction.
<LaserJock> persia: what?
<persia> jcastro: Ah.  s/a PPA/the PPA/.  Sorry.  I'll take a look.
<jcastro> persia: the apt backend needs a bit of love, but the idea is sound
<LaserJock> nothing changes really except the frontend no?
<persia> LaserJock: If two users on different systems cannot expect the same behaviour from the same actions, and the same tool is advocated for both, it can be a source of user confusion.
<jcastro> a common add/remove programs for everyone, along with an update manager
<LaserJock> persia: right now the case is way worse though
<LaserJock> you have different frontends that do different things
<persia> LaserJock: Why?  Each distribution set with common semantics has a common set of tools.
<LaserJock> I don't care about semantics
<LaserJock> the user just wants to install app X
<LaserJock> having a common GUI gives some familiarity
<persia> LaserJock: Right, but if the same action produces different results, how is this useful?
<LaserJock> because it installs what they want
<LaserJock> and it's a common interface
<Fujitsu> Not necessarily!
<crimsun> (as an aside, I wonder how useful it would be to have per-application volume for pulseaudio tied to window focus ala a compiz* plugin)
<Fujitsu> crimsun: As a plugin, that would be cool.
<imbrandon> persia: if it DOSENT produce diffrent resuls would be the goal of the tool, the getting there might be diffrent for each distro but the end result will be the same
<imbrandon> e.g. X is installed
<persia> imbrandon: Right, but the semantics are differnt.
<imbrandon> persia: exactly but users dont nor should care about those, only developtrs
<LaserJock> persia: you have a legitimate point that users from different distros will get different packages installed
<LaserJock> but that's not really the point
<persia> imbrandon: No, the semantics are different.  The users need to think differently to achieve the results.  A new common set of semantics can be established, but that requires retraining for everyone.
<LaserJock> the point, I believe, it to provide a common interface to installing software
<imbrandon> persia: no retraining only for developrs of the inter4gration tool, not "everone"
<persia> LaserJock: Yes it is.  It means that searching the web for someone who had the problem before and resolved it is no longer a useful way to find solutions.
<LaserJock> persia: why not?
<persia> imbrandon: If you change the semantics, all users (including you) need to alter thinking to match the new semantics.
<imbrandon> no no no
<imbrandon> not at all
<imbrandon> not ifd the tool does its job
<persia> LaserJock: Because the information available for a web page is no longer expected to be the same for my local environment.
<LaserJock> persia: why not?
<LaserJock> I don't really get it
<Fujitsu> To make everything work uniformly, we would need strictly defined standards of how every single package is split, built, etc.
<imbrandon> persia: thats the same if you move from epiphany to firefox
<imbrandon> and change will produce that result
<LaserJock> the packages are the same so the solutions are the same
<persia> imbrandon: Yes.  if the semantics are different now, the tool must select one set of semantics, prepare a new common set of semantics, or not behave identically in differing environments.
<LaserJock> persia: I'm still not getting it, how are we changing semantics?
<persia> LaserJock: The packages aren't the same.  That's the point.
<LaserJock> yes they are
<imbrandon> i cant express how wrong you are on irc, i guess i will have to write a paper
<LaserJock> you're still doing .debs and .rpms or whatever
<persia> LaserJock: No.  Go review the package sets for Fedora and SuSE, and compare.  Binary packages are very frequently split differently.
<LaserJock> persia: but that doesn't matter doesn't it?
<imbrandon> persia: and that matters not to an end result, only how you get ther
<LaserJock> that's the whole point of the backends
<TheMuso> LaserJock: It matters a lot
 * Fujitsu finds persia's point very, very valid.
<persia> imbrandon: I agree that there is a semantic change from firefox to epiphany.  If the new tool defines a common set of semantics, I'm happy, but I don't see that.
<imbrandon> persia: just existing it does
<persia> LaserJock: Yes it does, because it changes what gets installed for any given action.
<LaserJock> persia: no it doesn't
<LaserJock> why would it?
<imbrandon> persia: but as long as the backend is smart enough to keep track of that wtf does it matter
<LaserJock> maybe I'm lost
<persia> imbrandon: No, it needs to define the semantics.  If it follows the distribution guidelines, the behaviour is different for different distributions, for the same actions in the same tools.
<persia> LaserJock: Because the packages are split differently, the same actions in the same installation tool will cause different changes to the installed system.  As a result, the mapping between user action and result will not match between distributions, for the same actions in the same tool.
<LaserJock> persia: ok, but who cares?
<imbrandon> if i request to install <blah> on suse and it installs <blah> + libblah-dev and blah2, on debian it only installs <blah> + blah2 WTF does it matter, i only requested <blah>
<imbrandon> thats the whole point
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It's not just dependencies.
<LaserJock> the point isn't to make the distros all the same
<Fujitsu> It could be a package split, or alternate flavours.
<LaserJock> it's just a common user interface for installing packages
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: and ? how does that make the front end diffrent ?
<LaserJock> it's not changing package formats or how we package, etc.
<persia> Right.  So when I put up my new cool software, and find that the tool works for me, and all my users complain that it doesn't install libfoo support (as one distribution split the packages differently), how do I support that?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: That's the point: it looks the same, but does different things!
<persia> Do I write separate installation guides for each distribution?  If I'm doing that, why would I want a common tool?
<imbrandon> persia: thats a per distro issue NOT a tool issue
<Fujitsu> Eeexactly.
<Fujitsu> (to persia's last line, that is)
<LaserJock> because a common user interface is much easier
<persia> imbrandon: Exactly.  And a single tool that is intended to act the same, but requires per-distro changes is hard to support.
<imbrandon> persia: because it makes sense for one less thing to be diffrent
<LaserJock> and for the vast majority of apps it should be just fine
<imbrandon> persia: easier to support than how it is now
<persia> LaserJock: How is a common interface easier when the behaviour cannot be documented?
<persia> imbrandon: Yes.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: One more thing that is the same, but is not?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: its exactly the same, the APPS work diffrent
<imbrandon> you have the EXACT same issue on debian and ubuntu
<LaserJock> persia: because you can say "To install X open up PackageKit and click blah and do foo"
<persia> imbrandon: Sure, so we get lots of reports that "blender is broken in Ubuntu, and only works in Fedora", when it works fine in Ubuntu, except that the installation mecahnism is different.
<persia> imbrandon: But not as much because the packages are 99% split the same.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: And then we have `oh dear, X is split up differently WHERE IS MY FEATURE?'
<imbrandon> persia: your mixxing app behavure and tool behavure, TOTALY diffrent
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: you also
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, yes, that's gonna happen some, but a common interface is at least easier
<persia> LaserJock: How is it easer?  For whom?
<LaserJock> better than documenting yum, synaptic, g-a-i, yast, etc.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: The tool should behave similarly in all instances if it is the same tool.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: so what does that matter to the interface ?
<Fujitsu> If it is installing different things, it is behaving differently.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: no it shouldent, then adept shouldent be in ubuntu and debian
<persia> imbrandon: The tool is inherently unsupportable if the behavior cannot be mapped to user actions.
<ScottK2> imbrandon: Common interface to different functions is dangerous.
<imbrandon> ScottK2: same functions diffrent app
<LaserJock> ScottK2: but it's still just installing software
<persia> LaserJock: Yes, which is only simple for a given common set of semantics.
<ScottK2> LaserJock and imbrandon: Yes, but that's not all you're doing.
<LaserJock> yeah, but the problem is worse now
<imbrandon> if what you are saying is correct , then apt for rpm wuld fail and not exist
 * persia is not opposed to packagekit defining a common set of semantics, but doesn't see that in the code anywhere
<LaserJock> you're not making the issue worse by having a common interface I can't imagine
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: If things look identical, there will be more expectation that doing the same thing on two instances will give the same result.
<persia> imbrandon: No, but apt for RPM behaves differently than apt for DEB, and yum is generally recommended as a preferred alternative.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well yes, that's always the case
<LaserJock> but software does that a lot
<imbrandon> per not at all
<LaserJock> and in this case I don't think it's very much
<ScottK2> Unless you have opensuse 10.1, then apt is really good to have.
<imbrandon> persia: ^
<persia> LaserJock: Right, so why create a identical interface that is known not to behave identically.
<LaserJock> persia: why not? I guess is my point
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: There are some minor differences now... We're much, much, much closer to Debian that we are to $RPMDISTRO
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to be able to install Fedora and see a common install interface
<LaserJock> like when I see evolution and Firefox, etc.
<persia> LaserJock: OK.  Good point.  I guess mine is that I wouldn't prefer to see it standardised for the distribution I spend time supporting.
<LaserJock> they may act differently, but well, you get over that
<persia> LaserJock: Sure, but epiphany in Fedora and epiphany in MEPIS are essentially the same.
<LaserJock> persia: well, not necessarily
<imbrandon> persia: it wouldnt make a lick of diffrence for distro support, whaat your talking about is multi-disro suppotr
<persia> Firefox vs. Epiphany is $favorite-RPM-semantics-tool vs. $favorite-DEB-semantics-tools
<LaserJock> say we split up the epiphany extensions in a separate package
<LaserJock> and Fedora doesn't
<LaserJock> you're gonna get different results
<persia> imbrandon: No, it makes a difference for distro support, as searching the web no longer helps: users have to ask the distro.
<LaserJock> but if you search for epiphany on both distros you can reasonably get what you want
<persia> LaserJock: Sure, but the user has a different semantic framework, and installs the right support, or understands why.
<LaserJock> persia: how so?
<imbrandon> persia: as they do now, the only thing on the "web" is generic linux, and that only works if you dont use thedisro provided tools, e.g. compile from source etc etc etc
<LaserJock> persia:  well, I see your point, but I don't think PackageKit is trying to resolve that problem
<persia> LaserJock: But if you search for how to install epiphany with packagekit, the instructions may not be right for your distro (see your example above)
<persia> LaserJock: I agree, I just don't think that the problem PackageKit is solving is worth solving without common semantics.
<imbrandon> sure installing it would be exactly the same, but what it installs woudl be diffrent
<imbrandon> as is now
<LaserJock> persia: that may be
<LaserJock> but I don't see how it would make the problem worse really
<imbrandon> so your taking one thing away, the diffrence on the install proceedure, not the diffrnce on what it installs
<persia> LaserJock: Because the set of actions for a user to take when using PackageKit differs between distributions, so a search on "packagekit epiphany" is much less likely to generate something useful than a search on e.g. "synaptic epiphany"
<imbrandon> persia: how? htat is totaly wrong
<persia> imbrandon: That would make me happy, but requires that PackageKit define a common set of semantics for all distributions.
<imbrandon> persia: not really if it uses each distros aleadu defined semantics
<persia> imbrandon: Because the mapping between user action and behaviour is not guaranteed without common semantics
<persia> imbrandon: If it uses each distros semantics, then my point about web searches applies.
<imbrandon> sure it is
<LaserJock> I can't imagine that it would  be a bigger problem that currently exists
<imbrandon> ugh you have the app mixed with the tool a little much in your reasoning, think about this .... ( one sec )
<LaserJock> but for sure it'd be nice to have a common semantics to go with it
<persia> imbrandon: How?  Without common semantics, installing a package doesn't necessarily mean the same thing.
<imbrandon> what is the problem if the end result is EXACTLY the same as now, but the road to get there is the same for all distros
<imbrandon> that is packagekit
<persia> LaserJock: Personally, I'd rather force multi-distro documentation on upstream than have a common install method that appears to work everywhere but acts differently in different places, if only to make keyword searches easier.
<ScottK> Well you either have to have RPM plus some stuff or DEB minus some stuff for that.
<persia> imbrandon: That is PackageKit's goal, with which I do not disagree, I just claim that it first requires the definition of common semantics.
<imbrandon> persia: how, distrubuitions already provide their own that work perfectly well
<persia> If "Install a package" doesn't mean the same thing, it's really hard for something to manage it properly.
<ScottK> persia: Personally, I think to do it correctly first requires someone to discover and commericalize unobtanium.
<persia> imbrandon: Right, each with its own semantics, and its own keyword for web searches.
<LaserJock> persia: but I can't imagine that it'd be different for a great many apps
<imbrandon> wtf does web searches have to do with install $package
<persia> ScottK: No, there are cases of successful collaboration.  Look at freedesktop.org.  It just requires massive effort for lots of people.
<ScottK> persia: Yes, but you have to go reinvent the fundamental wheel first.
<persia> LaserJock: Pick 20 apps you've worked on recently, and go look at the RPMs.  Even in cases where I'm intimately familiar with the upstream source code, I am sometimes confused trying to pull patches.
<LaserJock> persia: but the packaging has nothing to do with it
<persia> ScottK2: Right.  Define some semantics :)
<imbrandon> persia: what does package ormat have to do with it ?
<persia> LaserJock: Rather, the packaging has everything to do with it.  Same upstream.
<LaserJock> if I do a search for epiphany in Synaptic and in yum I can get the right thing
<ScottK> imbrandon: It's not just format, but content and structure.
<persia> imbrandon: ormat?
<imbrandon> format
<persia> imbrandon: Not much at all.  It is all about the semantics of the set of packages for the environment.
<LaserJock> I can get the same apps installed on different distros, I just have to learn different tools
<imbrandon> but what does an end user care about that, they dont pull patches
<persia> One could likely produce an RPM distro with Debian semantics.
<imbrandon> they install software
<LaserJock> learning *what* to install is much easier most of the time than *how* to install
<persia> Right.  Without common semantics "Install software" doesn't have a common meaning.
<imbrandon> sure it does
<persia> imbrandon: Go read a dictionary.
<imbrandon> yum install blah, apt-get isntall blah
<imbrandon> persia: ???
<persia> imbrandon: I agree with almost everything you are saying, but none of it actually works that way without common semantics.  We have a different problem that needs solving first in order for packagekit to do what you describe.
<imbrandon> what the hell does that have to do with me reading a Dictionary ?
<imbrandon> ...
<persia> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+semantics&btnG=Search&meta=
<imbrandon> and ? i know what semantics means, your point ?
<persia> "semantics" attaches meanings to words.  Without common semantics, "this" means two different things in two different contexts.
<LaserJock> persia: but the semantics are very similar
<imbrandon> and i';m trygin to excplain to you that it dosent except to developers
<LaserJock> people can, in the majority of cases figure it out
<persia> So, when I say "Without common semantics "Install Software" doesn't have a common meaning", it is a tautology.
<imbrandon> persia: it does more than you thing
<imbrandon> think*
<ScottK> On the off chance anyone wants to do actual packaging work tonight, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=disk-manager is looking for a second advocate.
<persia> LaserJock: The semantics are similar in the majority cases, but dissimiar in thousands of cases, which tend to be packages that I hear about.
<persia> imbrandon: I'm reading the code.  It helps somewhat, but doesn't handle a number of cases well, e.g. (hypothetical) epiphany suggesting epiphant-plugins-extra in one distro, and it being compiled-in in another.
<imbrandon> ScottK: is there a reason this DD isnt uploading to debian first ?
<persia> imbrandon: NMU barrier is higher than Ubuntu barrier?
<ScottK> imbrandon: He wants to become a MOTU, so this is part of his body of Ubuntu work.
<imbrandon> persia: as it shouldnt, i dont want it too, infact thats GREAT it dont
<ScottK> persia: New package.
<imbrandon> it SHOULD work diffrently on each distro
<persia> ScottK: Even more so then :)
<imbrandon> otherwise why have diffrent ones
<ScottK> imbrandon: An excellent argument for having different package management tools.
<persia> imbrandon: If the tool works differently for each distro, then there is no mapping between user action and berhaviour, which is considered poor form by UI people.
<imbrandon> persia: its not a NMU
<imbrandon> no persia your mapping APP to TOOL, not the same i want the TOOL the same but the APP diffrent
<imbrandon> ScottK: ^
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  So users of PackageKit cannot expect a common behaviour from a set of actions within PackageKit.  I consider that a bug.
 * ScottK is too tired to parse that
<imbrandon> e.g. its a feature that apt installs epiphany on ubuntu and apt installs epiphany and plugins on SuSE
<imbrandon> persia:  NO
<imbrandon> persia: the package kit they click INSTALL on both, the APP ends up being diffent, NOT the tool
<imbrandon> that is corect
<persia> imbrandon: Searching the web for "epiphany packagekit" when I'm on ubuntu in your example might take me to a page that indicates I don't need to do anything extra to get the extras pacakge.  That would be wrong.
<ScottK> Does yum/RPM have an equivalent of update-alternatives?
<imbrandon> persia: but you dident search for the extras you searched for packagekit
<persia> imbrandon: The actions the tool takes as a result of user action are different.  That means that common documentation is useless.
<persia> imbrandon: Right, because I'm installing epiphany with packagekit.
<imbrandon> not totaly, infact more common than it is now
<persia> And the web page tells me it automatically includes the extras package, and it doesn't, so I file a bug.
<imbrandon> persia: no hte webpage would mention no su=ch thing, as it would be diffrent and known to be diffrent
<persia> And the bug is rejected, as it's supposed to behave that way, and I'm an unhappy user.
<persia> imbrandon: On some random blog?  I doubt it.
<ScottK> persia: Do you know if RPM has update-alternatives?
<imbrandon> some random blog is wrong now, why woudl that change
<LaserJock> ScottK: I think the alternatives system is a Debianism
<persia> ScottK: Not offhand, but good point.  I'll look.
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'm fairly certain it is.
<imbrandon> ScottK: alternaves is debian only
<ScottK> This is an example of something that fundamentally RPM doesn't have.
<persia> imbrandon: Sure, but the chances that "synaptic epiphany" gets me a random blog that isn't wrong is much higher now.
<ScottK> How does a common tool manage this kind of thing.
<LaserJock> ScottK: it has a RPM backend
<imbrandon> persia: why would you search for epiphany when you wnt epiphany extras ?
<ScottK> Right so it's doing RPMish things and DEBish things and they are different.
<imbrandon> ScottK: it dosent and isnt supose to
<persia> imbrandon: Because I'm not very experienced, and don't know I want epiphany extras.
<LaserJock> ScottK: right, that's the point
<persia> ScottK: No.  Guideline is to not share namespace.
<imbrandon> persia: then you are likely to be wrong or get wrong info no matter what you do
<imbrandon> in that case
<LaserJock> persia: that's what package descriptions are for, right?
<imbrandon> even now
<ScottK> persia: It's not just namespace, it's common package functions like www-browser
<persia> imbrandon: Why?  I subscribe to a number of RSS feeds.  Frequently the posts include info on an app I want.  This often includes instructions for Fedora & Debian.  I follow the Debian example, and am happy.  I don't want this to change.
<imbrandon> ScottK: and no other distros  have a concept of that and it wouldent change with packagekit nor would packagekit have to maintain that, apt would
<persia> ScottK: Right.  That's namespace.  Apps are expected to rely on preferred alternatives exclusively.
<ScottK> OK.
<imbrandon> persia: sure but your missing the3 point here, there would still be debian and fedora ways of doing things, but part of that process would now overlap
<ScottK> Well it's nearly 2AM here, so I need to get to bed.
 * persia agrees with imbrandon about alternatives
<ScottK> Good night all and have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=disk-manager
<persia> imbrandon: And I'm to trust the blog authors to explain it correctly?  With a common tool, I suspect the likelihood is significantly reduced.
<ScottK> Apt would have to do it, but you'd still have inconsistent results between the two environments.
<imbrandon> persia: if you trust them now you would trust them then, you cant have iot both ways
<imbrandon> ScottK: and you have inconsitant results NOW
<persia> imbrandon: They do it now because it's significantly different.  If it's substantially the same, I don't see why they'd bother.
<imbrandon> that wouldent change and packagekit isnt trying to chage it
<ScottK> imbrandon: Yes, but I have two obviously differnt tools.  It's not suprising.
<persia> Right.  That's the problem I have with packagekit.  if it's going to provide a common tool with a common interface, it should be addressing those issues.
<imbrandon> persia: then your putting your faith in the wrong thing, if everyone thought liek that we'd all use windows
<imbrandon> ScottK: its not replaceing apt, you seem to think it is
<imbrandon> its replaceing synaptic and adept
<persia> imbrandon: Why?  By the same guidelines, I expect people to provide different notes for installing on Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X.
<persia> (and they tend to do so)
<imbrandon> -EPARSE
<ScottK> imbrandon: I realize that.  It's just that it's a front end for two totally different things trying to look the same.  It's odd.
<imbrandon> ScottK: HOW, thats what i'm getting at
<imbrandon> its really not, you might think it is at first but i dont
 * persia finishes looking at the packagekit code, and is very impressed with the interface and functionality, but laments the lack of specification of semantics.
<imbrandon> persia: do distrobutions not provide those? why change them ?
<ScottK> Of course, OTOH, almost anything would be an improvement over Adept.
<persia> imbrandon: So that user action is mapped to result in a predictable way.
<imbrandon> its kinda like saying there shouldent be an odbc because each DB backend is very very diffrent, odbc still seems to map them all to a common api just fine
<LordKow> what kind of craziness does ubuntu do with the swap partition? because by all accounts mount is not mounting swap.
<Fujitsu> LordKow: swapon -a
<Fujitsu> Swap is never done my mount, is it?
<ScottK> imbrandon: In my head this is like having an IM client and a mail client with a common front end and expect people to keep it straight.  The both move text and files between people, so who cares.
<imbrandon> LordKow: mount never mounts swap
<Fujitsu> s/my/by/
<LordKow> then how is the swap partition utilized?
<Fujitsu> LordKow: swapon
<imbrandon> ScottK: heh gmail does just that
<imbrandon> :)
<persia> ScottK: I've actually seen apps like that.
<ScottK> Yeah and they drive me batty.
<ScottK> Just because it exists doesn't make it a good idea.
<imbrandon> dosent make them worng either
<LordKow> well that methodology breaks a lot of programs that expect to find a swap partition mounted properly... ie s2ram's userspace utility
<persia> I also.  I'd have phrased it differently if I'd meant it to be email.
 * persia especially dislikes getting email containing "ping"
<imbrandon> LordKow: no distro "mounts" swap
<imbrandon> they all use swapon etc
<LordKow> hm
<LordKow> i've never had any trouble using s2ram and gnome's suspend to ram has never worked. i still cant figure out why ubuntu decided s2ram was unneeded.
<imbrandon> and suspend to "ram" shouldnt be suppend to "disk" aka swap
<imbrandon> :)
<LordKow> the swap thing was a side point, irrelevant.
<LordKow> suspending to ram is about as beautiful as ever on gentoo heh. i think gnome-power-manager should have suspend to ram disabled by default. of those who actually have a use for suspend 2 ram im guessing <10% will find it actually works in ubuntu
<LordKow> i know its a driver issue but thats what s2ram works around by utilizing the comps/laptops ability to reload the video bios itself.
<LordKow> Dec  8 00:25:42 CSC-KDRAKE-002 console-kit-daemon[5667]: WARNING: Unable to activate console: No such device or address  <-- well there is half the problem
<ScottK> LordKow: In Kubuntu, I've never had it not work.
 * ScottK is really going to bed now.
<imbrandon> gnight ScottK
<Fujitsu> Night ScottK.
<LordKow> thats the point. the only thing worse than a broken suspend feature is a broken suspend feature for some, while for others it works. even worse is that the fix can be any combination of seemingly a million things.
<LordKow> and that is due to crap video drivers, so.. ubuntu is all about open source so why not use a suspend method that does not rely on the video drivers at all when resuming
<lifeless> LordKow: I think our success rate for suspend to ram is much better than 10%
<lifeless> LordKow: certainly it works on all my machines, and thats 5 different hardware configurations on three architectures
<lifeless> LordKow: finally, broken suspend for all is worse that working suspend for some.
<imbrandon> lifeless: sparc notebook ? heheh
<LordKow> lifeless, i think a quick google search would show otherwise. most people dont even need to use suspend so the issue is there for more people than it seems.
<LordKow> (simply because they use a desktop and have no use for suspend).
<stratus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CowdancerHowto - Feedback is appreciated! :)
<Fujitsu> Desktop has no use for suspend? I... seee.....
<lifeless> LordKow: you make a compelling argue with no logical flaws. I'm going to go write some code now.
<imbrandon> desktop has plenty of uses for it, like power savings
<lifeless> s/argue/argument/
<LordKow> if you're a bug fixer you would much rather have it broken for all because if its broken for some.. but not for others.. and yet the configurations are exactly the same (base ubuntu install) then where do you begin?
<lifeless> LordKow: thats called debugging/diagnosis/software development.
<Fujitsu> By filing bugs.
<LordKow> Fujitsu, some of these bugs have been open in excess of 2 years now.
<LordKow> thats horrible.
<lifeless> LordKow: so get stuck in and help solve them.
<LordKow> they've crossed 4+ ubuntu distributions.
<LordKow> sure, the fix is to use s2ram.
<Fujitsu> LordKow: 4+ Ubuntu releases, you mean?
<LordKow> yea
<imbrandon> LordKow: sure if your convinced that is the solution write a compeling spec and present it, complaining in here wont solve a whole lot
<persia> stratus: Nice.  I'd recommend putting it under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide somewhere (and am still reading)
<imbrandon> LordKow: but on the other hand a compelling spec can change a whole ot
<imbrandon> s/ot/lot
<LordKow> well SuSe is going one way with s2ram while ubuntu is going the other way with gnome-power. why not combine the efforts? effectively double the manpower towards the problem.
<LordKow> debian keeps the userland s2ram utils up-to-date so it would take little work on our part
<stratus> persia: sure, just wanted to collect some feedback and maybe changes, grammar fixes and all that before add it into a more know document
<LordKow> kernel.org put s2ram into the kernel starting with 2.6.23 i believe
<LordKow> maybe earlier
<persia> stratus: Is there by any chance a config file that would allow shorthand use of aliases for basepath?  e.g. `sudo cowbuilder --build hello*dsc -- dist hardy`?  Separately, Is there a way to get it to run without sudo?  We don't currently require sudo for pbuilder or sbuild.
<persia> stratus: No problem :)
<stratus> persia: hm, no shortand of aliases for basepath yet but smells like a interesting patch for upstream
<stratus> persia: fakeroot should do
<persia> stratus: Too bad :)  For fakeroot, if that works, it might be worth s/sudo/fakeroot/ where possible.
<stratus> persia: I need to check, let it be sudo for a while. :)
<persia> stratus: OK.  We just generally discourage sudo for packaging, as we see lots of cases of packages installing into /usr during build from new packagers, but it can wait for more testing.
<stratus> persia: I see, I'll take a look and update the article don't worry.
<stratus> persia: need some sleep now
<persia> stratus: Thanks for writing it up.  Sleep well.
<stratus> persia: np, thanks. see you.
 * StevenK complains, whinges and bitches about WoW
 * Fujitsu doesn't.
<StevenK> Most useless group *EVER*
<StevenK> I missed two quest items the first time I did this instance, so I did it again with another group. And we missed them *AGAIN*
<Fujitsu> You do things in groups?
<StevenK> Sure.
<Fujitsu> You need a Kmos in yours.
<StevenK> These quest items are in an instance, which you just can't do by yourself.
<StevenK> No I don't.
<StevenK> I need a group which doesn't get wiped in the final room of the instance
<StevenK> *TWICE* damn it
<Fujitsu> This must be some usage of the word instance that I wasn't previously aware of.
<Treenaks> Fujitsu: it's a WoW thing
<Fujitsu> That would explain it.
<Treenaks> Fujitsu: I get to hear stories like this all day at work :)
 * StevenK keeps grumbling
<StevenK> If I hear the words "It's just a game" I will garrote some one.
 * StevenK sighs
<Treenaks> StevenK: It's just.. well.. you know :)
<StevenK> Keep talking, I'm sharpening.
<StevenK> Treenaks: I've just spent about four hours running around Zul'Farrak, and I've missed what I was after, *twice*.
<persia> StevenK: How do you sharpen a garotte?
<StevenK> I didn't say what I was sharpening ...
 * persia suspects StevenK of being sneaky, and threatening one method of demise whilst planning quite a different one.
<StevenK> I admit nothing
<lifeless> StevenK: dude
<lifeless> StevenK: what realm ?
<StevenK> lifeless: Dath'Remar
<lifeless> hmm, I think I have horde on there
 * StevenK is flying his level 49 warlock to the Hinterlands
<lifeless> StevenK: horde or ally?
<StevenK> Alliance
<lifeless> k
<lifeless> I have ally on Jubei'thos
<StevenK> I think I need to beg some guild mates for a run through Zul'Farrak. At least they probably won't stuff it up.
<lifeless> was it your tank or healer that was fucked? or support ?
<StevenK> Both
<StevenK> The tank did a bad pull, the healer got smashed and died, and then fell offline, leaving us to deal
<lifeless> garh
<lifeless> for the healer to get smashed your tank isn't holding aggro
<lifeless> tanks are one of the easiest things to fuck up, and *everyone* thinks they can tank.
<lifeless> *thinks*
<StevenK> We managed to clean up and then defeat the end-instance boss sans healer
<StevenK> Which *sucked*
<StevenK> I know I can't tank, I just curse and point my minion where they tells me
 * StevenK isn't particularly looking forward to doing ZF again
<proppy> persia: nice edit :)
<persia> proppy: Thanks.  The most important part is pointing a the right spec :)
<proppy> persia: I liked the s/proppy/Alice and Bob/ part too :)
<persia> proppy: Always best to write in the third person for this sort of thing: makes it clear you're not just driving a private wishlist.  Just needs two more patches: have anything else planned today?
<proppy> persia: I agree your comments on Outstanding Issues
<proppy> persia: I think 'Disable advocation checkbox when level is Contributor:' is already granted by the current code isn't it ?
<persia> proppy: Excellent.  The other point I wasn't sure about was the Contributor comment not counting as rejection.  Do you think that it should?
<proppy> persia: I think it don't, I wasn't aware that all the comments that are not advocating
<proppy> persia: are considered as rejection, what about your own comments ?
<proppy> persia: I think they just need to be considered as comments of the uploaders from a REVU code pov
<persia> proppy: Any comments except one's own are currently counted as rejection.  I think Contributor comments should be treated like Packager comments.
<proppy> persia: agreed :)
<persia> proppy: Exactly.  You and I have the same viewpoint
<proppy> persia: let's try to setup revu.aminche,com then
<proppy> persia: to test the patch somewhere
<persia> proppy: I just wanted to check because of the note that Contributor comments otherwise were to look like MOTU comments.  Might need an update.
<persia> proppy: I'm completely unfamiliar with the codebase, and not a python person, so I'll leave the implementation to you, but you might want to poke sistpoty who expressed interest earlier.
<proppy> It is felt that there should be no distinction between comments from a contributor and those from MOTUs, just like for any other channels: IRC, LP, etc.
<proppy> except from the 'advocating' 'rejection' part
<proppy> #ubuntuwire ?
<persia> proppy: Exactly.  If a Contributor comment is treated like a Packager comment, that's different than "no distinction".  If we agree, you might want to update the quoted bit :)
<persia> proppy: Of general interest to pacakgers & reviewers.  Here is likely a better forum (although I'll be in deep idle soon)
<proppy>  * Contributors are treated like a Packager comment, (no allowed to advocate, no treated as rejection).
<proppy>  * It is felt that there should be no additional distinction between comments from a contributor and those from MOTUs, just like for any other channels: IRC, LP, etc.
<persia> proppy: That looks excellent to me.
<proppy> norsetto was also a great help on this one
<proppy> i wish i could apt-get install revu :)
 * Hobbsee waves
<civija> hey guys
<civija> how can I find out does some package have ubuntu maintainer or is it just synced from debian?
<civija> i.e. slrnface
<Hobbsee> apt-cache show slrnface
<Hobbsee> see what the maintainer says
<Kmos> civija: apt-cache show slrnface | grep Version -> if "Version: ... " has "ubuntu" in it, so it isn't synced.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: ubuntu-only rebuilds?
<Kmos> build1 ?
<Hobbsee> (which is why i didn't give that answer)
<Hobbsee> Kmos: yeah.  but that will still have a ubuntu maintainer - someone in ubuntu has changed it.
<Kmos> right
<civija> Hobbsee: it says Gerfried Fuchs <alfie et debian.org>
<civija> i was confused with debian email addreess
<Hobbsee> civija: *nods*
<Hobbsee> oh, drat.  it has had binary mangling
<Hobbsee> civija: right, anything with "ubuntu" in the version number, or "build" is not a direct sync
<civija> ok, tnx
<geser> Kmos: Hi, have you read the mail about you on the motu-council list?
<Kmos> geser: the one dholbach sent ? i'm writing it right now..
<geser> Kmos: yes, he forwarded it to you
<Kmos> geser: i'll answer to it this morning.. thanks for remind me
<frenchy> Hi all, I've just tried to `dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot` but I keep getting a "secret key not available".  Has anyone got a spare moment to help me please?
<geser> frenchy: does the Changed-By value in the .changes file match completely with your key id?
<frenchy> geser: Thanks heaps ... that pointed me in the right direction.  It's not the right one because I accidentally ran `dch` without the `-m` option.  Nice work.
<Kmos> ember_: pt boy :)
<frenchy> geser: I'm just reading how to set it permanently so I don't make a fool out of myself again.  Well at least not with `dch`.
<geser> frenchy: set DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME and dch will use it to constuct the right value for the changelog entries
<frenchy> Ta
<coolbhavi> Can I upload an updated package of an existing package in ubuntu to my ppa?
<coolbhavi> If so how?
<Kmos> coolbhavi: do you have your ppa configure and you know how to upload to it ?
<Kmos> i mean, configure in your dput.cf
<coolbhavi> yes
<Kmos> coolbhavi: you know how to use dch -i ? and package ?
<Kmos> you can put the version 1.2.3-1~ppa1
<Kmos> for example
<Kmos> in the changelog entry
<coolbhavi> I want to contribute in packaging... I am relatively new to packaging
<Kmos> !packaging | coolbhavi
<ubotu> coolbhavi: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<knights> Hi guys!
<knights> Whens the deadline for new apps for Hardy?
<knights> (new versions)
<coolbhavi> I have already the source tarballs with me Please help
<coolbhavi> I have already the source tarballs with me Please help on how to package
<coolbhavi> ?
<geser> knights: it should be in the archive before FF (FeatureFreeze) which around Feb 14th, 2008
<knights> Thanks geser!
<knights> Valentines? :)
<jonnymind> hello.
<jonnymind> I politely ask for mentoring on the "falcon" package in revu.
<coolbhavi> OK I have done the package using debhelper Next?
<slicer> jonnymind: I'm not a motu, but you might want to use debhelper for the package.
<jonnymind> how does it work?
<Kmos> !packaging | jonnymind
<ubotu> jonnymind: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<slicer> Scroll down to the "Packaging with debhelper" part.
<jonnymind> Thank you. I have read that stuff and I hope I adhere to the requiremnts and that I have fulfilled the procedure up to date.
<jonnymind> yet the packaging of a programming language seems to be a bit outside the standard procedures indicated in the guides.
<slicer> Actually, that wiki page should be restructured. CDBS > debhelper > from_scratch, yet it's listed in the reverse order.
<jonnymind> I.e. I have already binary-packaged a .so, a bin and a -dev package, but I don't know how to achieve them from a single source package.
<jonnymind> (I have an automated script that creates lintian clean binary packages from a compiled source though).
<jonnymind> But I need a bit of help in doing this from the source package.
<jonnymind> Also, there is a "namespace" issue someone was mentioning.
<slicer> I dunno :( I'm only familiar with the debhelper'd process.
<jonnymind> probably "falcon" is too wide; falconpl may be a more sensible naming for the packge.
<slicer> falcon uses cmake?
<jonnymind> yes
<geser> Fujitsu: do you know if bug #129940 was fixed in the last xpdf upload to -security?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129940 in xpdf "[XPDF] possible buffer overflow and execution of arbitrary code" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129940
<jonnymind> I have too many reopsitories and I also develop with VCexpress on windows, so using automake would be a nightmare.
<slicer> jonnymind: I haven't tried, but apparanly you can use CDBS with Cmake, which will result in a 3-line debian/rules and most things figured out auomatically for you.
<Fujitsu> geser: I'm not quite sure. Do you have a CVE # for that?
<jonnymind> Oh; that's good. Any doc about that?
<slicer> jonnymind: No.. Actually, it seems I'm mistaken. Some packages add cdbs/cmake support, but it's not in cdbs by default it seems.
<geser> Fujitsu: the CVE id mentioned in the links in that bug is CVE-2007-3387
<ubotu> Integer overflow in the StreamPredictor::StreamPredictor function in xpdf 3.02, as used in (1) poppler before 0.5.91, (2) gpdf before 2.8.2, (3) kpdf, (4) kdegraphics, (5) CUPS, (6) PDFedit, and other products, might allow remote attackers to execute arbitrary code via a crafted PDF file that triggers a stack-based buffer overflow in the StreamPredictor::getNextLine function. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-3387)
<jonnymind> Uhm, quite a mess.
<jonnymind> However,
<jonnymind> as I have already a single binary package from the source package, splitting it into 3 wouldn't seem too hard.
<Fujitsu> geser: I have that listed as being unfixed in Dapper, Edgy and Feisty.
<jonnymind> It is also pointed out by the guide
<jonnymind> But just pointed out.
<geser> Fujitsu: ok, I'll subscribe motu-swat to the bug then
<Fujitsu> geser: Thanks.
<jonnymind> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic says "The second paragraph is for the binary package that will be built from the source. If multiple binary packages are built from the source package, there should be one section for each one."
<jonnymind> but then it fails to explain how to direct pbuilder to extract the other ones.
<jonnymind> I suppose it should be relatively easy.
<geser> jonnymind: you give pbuilder the .dsc file (i.e. point it to the source package) and if you got everything right it will produce you several debs
<jonnymind> How to instruct it what to get?
<jonnymind> i.e. headers + devel .so,
<slicer> jonnymind: Just include another binary blurb in the control file. After the 'Package: hello' section, include 'Package: hello-dev' etc.
<geser> through files in debian/
<jonnymind> yes, but shouldn't I tell pbuilder what subtree or file include in each package?
<jonnymind> and what about docs/<pname>/copyright?
<geser> jonnymind: look at some small libraries to see how to do it
<jonnymind> Ah, I can get the source package for them!
<jonnymind> (how come I didn't think about that? :-)
<geser> jonnymind: see dh_install, debian/<package>.install tells which file belongs to which package
<slicer> jonnymind: I strongly recommend you switch to debhelper instead of doing it from scratch. debhelper has a multi-target template which has most things ready for you.
<jonnymind> slicer: I would happily do it, but my build process requires a nonstandard script (build.sh) to be used.
<slicer> jonnymind: You can do that with debhelper :)
<jonnymind> Ah, that's interesting.
<jonnymind> I will dig in that too.
<slicer> jonnymind: debhelper creates a set of files in debian/ for you, and you can modify debian/rules as you wish.
<jonnymind> Ok, suppose I succeed. How can I update the source package? -- just using dput again?
<slicer> jonnymind: However, it also correctly sets shlib files, permissions and compression for man pages, init files, ldconfig etc etc.
<slicer> jonnymind: Yes.
<jonnymind> Great. I will try that, thanks.
<Ubulette> anyone interested to review Bug 174739 ?
<Ubulette>  Bug 174739
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174739 in seamonkey "[upgrade] seamonkey 1.1.7" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174739
<frafu> Hello, I have build a debian package and assumed that the dependencies to run the package would be the same as the build dependencies. Obviously, they are not the same. Could anybody please tell me whether there is a systematic way to get the list of the dependencies needed to run the package?
<StevenK> frafu: Put ${shlibs:Depends} into the Depends line only, and have dpkg-shlibdeps sort out the dependancies if it's compiled
<frafu> StevenK: $ (...) is in the Depends line; but it seems that a user that downloaded the package from my ppa could not use it, because dbus-x11 was missing on his system
<persia> frafu: If that isn't sufficient, try running the package in a bare chroot (ubuntu-minimal), and checking for errors.  Add a dependency to stop each error.
<StevenK> frafu: They're curly braces, too
<limac> hey, how can i join the ubuntu devel community for hardy?
<persia> limac: You just did :)
<persia> limac: More seriously, what would you like to do?
<limac> Well actually i don't know
<slicer> Anyone have time to do a review update of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mumble ?
<limac> Actually it's pretty boring during the weekends so thought of contributing to ubuntu
<persia> limac: OK.  Classes of things to do: 1) Fix bugs, 2) update software, 3) package new software.  I recommend working in that order, but it's best to do what interests you.
<frafu> persia: my package (mousetweaks) needs a gui; would that work with ubuntu-minimal?
<limac> cool
<persia> frafu: Yes, if all the dependencies are correct :)  You'll likely want to use a chroot from which you run X clients back to your local X server.
<frafu> StevenK: There are indeed curly braces in my debian/control
<limac> do I programming experience in this? if yes what?
<imbrandon> limac: and if you go for bugs first ( recomended ) grab some "bite-sized" ones from LP and feel free to ask about in herer to help you through the first couple
<StevenK> frafu: Fair enough, just checking
<limac> allright
<RainCT> limac: no, but it does help if you have some :)
<persia> limac: If you have experience in a language, you're encouraged to look at code bugs in that language, but it's certainly not required.
<limac> cause I only know C++
<imbrandon> limac: not really, it helps to be able to understand a given language but not nessesary 100%
<persia> limac: Do you know how to read a stacktrace and figure out the issue?
<limac> kindof not an expert at it though
<imbrandon> limac: alot of "small" bugs are packing issues anyhow, not much wrong with actual code, i'd say ( total guess ) about %60 of the time
<limac> ok
<limac> so how do I begin
<limac> with the packaging and stuff
<persia> limac: OK.  There's a few hundred bugs that need stacktrace review, but there's also a couple hundred packaging bugs that don't need much coding, and likely around 50 "bitesize" bugs which are a good way to become familiar with our processes.
<imbrandon> do youhave an area of packages that intrests you, like "games" or "server" or "kde" or something to narrow down your bug hunts ?
<imbrandon> limac: ^
<limac> no experience with kde
<limac> and explain server
<imbrandon> yea only an example
<frafu> persia: I use pbuilder to check whether the mousetweaks builds properly; now I will have to look up how to run mousetweaks from a chroot environment...
<limac> so do i need to install hardy alpha1 for these
<imbrandon> limac: well more the question was do you have an area of prefrence to begin, we dont wanna push you into apache2 bugs if you dont even know what a webserver is and such
<persia> limac: Best way to begin is to find a bug you can solve.  Then, follow the MOTU/Contributing link Adri2000 gave you as a first pass for the process.
<imbrandon> limac: no but a chroot/pbuilder is almost a requirement
<imbrandon> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<limac> anything is good for me
<limac> wat exactly does pbiulder do?
<limac> pbuilder
<persia> limac: It's one of the two common systems to test-build package candidates to make sure they will build if uploaded to the repository.  There's a link to more explanation on the Contributing page.
<imbrandon> limac: ok then if it was me in your shoes i would do the following ( approx in this order ) 1) setup a pbuilder for hardy ( explaind in that link ) 2) grab 1 or 2 "bitesized" tagged bugs in LP to learn how the MOTU workflow goes and then 3) go crazy getting "bigger" bugs from LP
<limac> ok i'll get that installed
<limac> right now
<frafu> persia: however, I am still wondering whether it will give me all the dependencies; I am afraid that it will not give me the dependencies to packages that are included in ubuntu-minimal. Or do I get something wrong?
<RainCT> how can I do something after dh_install got called with cdbs?
<persia> frafu: You're exactly correct, but I think we don't support systems that don't have everything in ubuntu-minimal installed, so it shouldn't be an issue (although I may be mistaken)
<persia> RainCT: Do you mean post-install, or immediately after the dh_install call?
<RainCT> persia: after dh_install
<nand> Hiya! I just got a FTBFS notice of the package I submitted, for the hppa arch (and it was build OK for the others archs). The problem is related to the packaging. What is the recommended way to solve an arch-dependent problem considering that I have no way to test?
<imbrandon> RainCT: here the bit on cdbs debian/rules overrides , http://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2527787
<RainCT> yes I know
<RainCT> it says install/foo::, but that doesn't work
<persia> RainCT: That's hard.  Are you sure an install/packagename:: rule isn't close enough?
<imbrandon> RainCT: if thats not finegrained enough you likely wont want to use cdbs ( it gets into black magic past that )
<RainCT> stuff in install/foo:: is being done before dh_install..
<imbrandon> binary-install/foo:: ??
<frafu> persia: but should the dependencies list theoretically not give all the dependencies, regardless whether they are in ubuntu-minimal or not?
<persia> RainCT: You could try binary/foo:: (I don't like internals), or you could play with internals.
<imbrandon> frafu: the dep list should list any package that is not "priority: required"
 * RainCT is trying with binary-install
<StevenK> Or "Essential: yes"
<frafu> persia: Is ubuntu-minimal also a subset of xubuntu and kubuntu?
<imbrandon> frafu: yes
<persia> frafu: Yes.
<LucidFox> imbrandon> amarok still doesn't build, even without --with-libkarma
<LucidFox> it seems that libkarma is turned on by default, you probably need --without-libkarma: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/2:1.4.7-2ubuntu3/+build/464728
<imbrandon> LucidFox: ?? shitty, ok let me get a bit more coffee in me and i'll check it out
<RainCT> imbrandon: binary-install seems to work :)
<frafu> imbradon: and all the packages in ubuntu-minimal are priority: required?
<imbrandon> RainCT: great, but if your doing this package from scratch ( e.g. not a update/change from a debian package ) i recomend to use normal debhelper vs cdbs , it will let you be much more finegrained
<imbrandon> and learn more
<imbrandon> frafu: afaik yes, that is the case, StevenK or persia could probably verify this
<StevenK> I'd need to check
<limac> sudo pbuilder create <<this takes a lot of time
<persia> frafu: You could actually verify yourself with a bit of playing with grep-dctrl
<persia> limac: Depending on your bandwidth, yes.  You should only have to do it once.
<limac> yeah
<imbrandon> limac: yea but it only needs to be done for each dist you want to build for , e.g. right now probably only hardy in your case
<imbrandon> s/done/done once
<limac> yup
<frafu> persia, StevenK, imbrandon: thanks for your explanations and help
<imbrandon> and if your not super tight on your hdd space i recomend you backup the base.tgz it initial makes, incase later you tant ( sometimes required for large transisitons ) your base tar
<imbrandon> limac: ^
<StevenK> % for i in $(apt-cache show ubuntu-minimal | grep Depends | cut -d\  -f2- | sed 's/ //g' | tr ',' '\n') ; do apt-cache show $i | grep Priority ; done | sort | uniq -c
<StevenK>      40 Priority: important
<StevenK>      38 Priority: required
<limac> ok
<imbrandon> iirc the base.tgz isnt HUGE, but if you only have a 10gb hdd, you might want to think twice about keeping an extra copy :)
<StevenK> So, yes, you can expect everything ubuntu-miminal pulls in to be there.
<StevenK> limac: Priority: required is "Packages which are necessary for the proper functioning of the system" and Priority: important is "Important programs, including those which one would expect to find on any Unix-like system."
<imbrandon> StevenK: "bash king" :P
<StevenK> imbrandon: There is no bashism in that line.
<StevenK> So take that back :-P
<imbrandon> s/bash/shell
<StevenK> :-)
<limac> ok, i think it's almost done
<limac> now what? after it's done
 * StevenK rewrites the line to be quicker
<limac> :0
<StevenK> Which returns a different result. Wierd.
<imbrandon> limac: other tools you will likely need close to the begining ( man or apt-cache show <pkg> if you want more info on each one ) are : devscript bzr build-essential patchutils
<imbrandon> devscripts*
<persia> bzr?
<StevenK> He might need bzr
<imbrandon> persia: not long and he will run accross packages that are maintained in bzr, and if packages are changed the "right" thing to do is make a bzr branch published with changes
<imbrandon> like mplayer
<limac> waht about devscript bzr build-essential patchutils
<persia> Maybe.  I got through over 100 uploads before installing bzr.  I think ubuntu-dev-tools is likely more useful for most cases.
<limac> ^imbrandon
<persia> limac: You want to install those packages.  Likely cdbs as well.
<imbrandon> limac: you will likely want those packages installed also, they will help you with fixing bugs
<limac> ok
<imbrandon> they are "the basic tols of the trade"
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> tools*
<imbrandon> persia: ahh yes i forgot about ubuntu-dev-tools, new fnagled meta packages :)
<imbrandon> someday i will finish my meta pacakge , one that makes imbrandon-dev-tools imbrandon-base imbrandon-desktop etc etc etc so i dont have to rember this stuff
<imbrandon> hehe
<limac> i'll be right back after bkfast
<imbrandon> persia: ahh bzr is "recomended" by ubuntu-dev-tools so it will be installed with it
<imbrandon> well i think, is recomends installed by default on yet ?
<persia> imbrandon: There you go then.
<persia> imbrandon: Depends on the tool still.
<imbrandon> ahh, /me sticks to apt-get , i'm assuming its on in aptitude
<imbrandon> time to make more coffee , brb
<imbrandon> persia / StevenK : i thought binary things ( images / gzip'd tar's etc ) were not allowed in debian/ unless they were uu encoded
<persia> imbrandon: Except in native packages (and they shouldn't be in debian/ in that case), that's true.
<StevenK> They are allowed, it's just that dpkg-source may hate you if they change.
<imbrandon> looking at some cdbs doc's quote "The system can handle compressed patch with additional '.gz' or '.bz2' suffix and uu-encoded patches with additional '.uu' suffix."
<imbrandon> talking aobut simple-patchsys
<persia> StevenK: In non-native?  How do you get them there?  diff.gz can't put them, no?
<StevenK> persia: Exactly, which is why dpkg-source will hate you.
<persia> StevenK: "...if they change"?
<imbrandon> hrm heh ok whats the point of supporting gzip patches then ? heh
<StevenK> persia: Well, even if they don't, point.
<persia> imbrandon: Dreaming of using xdiff or the like instead of diff likely.  Demonstration of programming skills.
<imbrandon> heh ok
<geser> gpocentek: any reason to not subscribe ubuntu-archive to bug #173220?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173220 in xapian-core "Sync request: xapian-core 1.0.4-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173220
<gpocentek> geser: I just forgot...
<geser> gpocentek: u-a is subscribed now
<gpocentek> geser: thanks a lot
<limac> allright then how can i get that package imbrando?
<imbrandon> limac: what package ?
<imbrandon> i'm sorry not sure exactly where we left off
<limac> limac: other tools you will likely need close to the begining ( man or apt-cache show <pkg> if you want more info on each one ) are : devscript bzr build-essential patchutils
<limac> that one^
<imbrandon> LucidFox: amaork fix uploaded, thanks for the headsup
<crimsun> use a package manager
<crimsun> e.g., aptitude, adept, synaptic, ...
<limac> dumb me!
<imbrandon> limac: ahh "sudo apt-get install devscripts bzr build-essential patchutils ubuntu-dev-tools"
<imbrandon> or as crimsun and pkg mgr :)
<limac> ok thanx
<imbrandon> s/and/any
<limac> whats crimsun
<imbrandon> crimsun is a person :)
<imbrandon> scroll up 3 or 4 lines :)
<limac> ah!
<imbrandon> btw hiya crimsun :)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: is what you call when your sound breaks
<limac> srry crimsun, didn't really pay attention to ur nick!
<limac> wat after that is done?
<imbrandon> ok so you have pbuilder installed and those i just named correct ?
<limac> yup
<imbrandon> now time to look on LP for a "bitesized" bug to fix to get to know the "processes" i sugest doing one or two of those before moving on ...
<imbrandon> one sec i'll get you a url to search the bitesized bugs
<limac> whats LP??????
<limac> sure take ur time
<imbrandon> LP == launchpad.net our bug tracker
<limac> ok
<limac> I do have an account
<limac> i guess
<imbrandon> mostl likely but you will need to use it real soon, so you might verify you can log into it while i get you the url
<limac> allright
<imbrandon> limac: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<imbrandon> is the bitsized bugs, i would look through those, and find one that seems fairly trivial as your first fix
<imbrandon> announce the bug # in here and i'll walk you through the first one
<imbrandon> s/i'll/we'll ( inviting anyone awake to help me along hehe )
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<imbrandon> heya ScottK
<ScottK> Hi there imbrandon.
<RainCT> Hi ScottK
<StevenK> Morning.
<StevenK> Oh damn
<persia> RainCT: You don't happen to be up for some shell scripting, do you?  I've a script that's too fragile for release.
<ScottK> Hello RainCT and StevenK.
 * StevenK waves
<RainCT> persia: what's it about?
<persia> Good day ScottK
<persia> RainCT: processing interdiffs: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/process-interdiff
<limac> i'll b back in a sec
<ScottK> Hello persia.  Thanks for looking at disk-manager.  What lintian version were you using?
<persia> ScottK: 1.23.36ubuntu1
<persia> RainCT: Not terribly important: you were nominated as a likely candidate in the MOTU meeting: feel free to decline :)
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.  I guess I need to enable backports ;-)
<persia> ScottK: If you'd be up for chasing bug #164509 whilst you're at it, it would make me extra happy .
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164509 in gutsy-backports "Please backport linda 0.3.26ubuntu2 to gutsy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164509
<imbrandon> persia / ScottK : i got it
<ScottK> persia: Does it work on Gutsy?
<imbrandon> ( the backport )
<ScottK> K
<persia> ScottK: Yes.  Only change is for the menu tests.
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks.  I think you already did sparky for that.
<limac> allright then, i logged in and there is like a list of bugs what do I do now?
<imbrandon> persia: yea i did
<persia> limac: Pick a bug that's not assigned to someone else, and figure out how to fix it.  Generate a patch, and submit it to the sponsors queue.
<RainCT> persia: what would I've to do then?
<limac> how can i know if the bug is assigned to someone else?
<persia> RainCT: Well, it'd be nice to error out and print usage with the wrong arguments.  Some error detection to report what went wrong, if anything did, etc.  Currently it's a scrap script I use, and I don't consider it ready for general use.  If you want to make it generally useful, that'd be great.  If not, no worries.
<imbrandon> limac: it has an assigned to field in the bug
<imbrandon> when you click on it
<limac> where is it?
<RainCT> limac: next to the status and importance
<RainCT> if there's a "-" then it isn't assigned to anybody
<limac> gotcha
<limac> now how do I fix it
<limac> through the sftwares I installed
<limac> ?
<imbrandon> limac: thats where your problem solving skills are put to use, figure out what the fix is first THEN you can generate a patch
<persia> limac: That's the tricky bit :)  If you understand, and can reproduce the bug, you've a better chance.
<limac> say i figure out how to fix it, what do i do then?
<persia> limac: Generate a patch.  There's some instructions on the MOTU/Contributing page as to how to make the patch.
<limac> ok can you please give me a link to that page!! thnx
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<imbrandon> you generate a fixed source pacakge, then debdiff it against an unchanged package, and attach the debdiff file to the bug in question and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<RainCT> limac: if you haven't already add the line Â«deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy main restricted universe multiverseÂ» to your /etc/apt/sources.list and run "sudo apt-get update". Then you will be able to download the source of the package with "apt-get source <packagename>"
<bulio> hi all
<bulio> I'm just wondering, can I find a guide on how to create a ubuntu package?
<limac> thanx RainCT I forgot to do that>>
<limac> hi bulio
<imbrandon> !packageguide
<ubotu> packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<imbrandon> bulio: ^^
<bulio> thanks
<imbrandon> persia: linda will be done on the next archive run ( unless Hobbsee has the powers to doso now [ Hobbsee #164509 ] )
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks.  I'm not in a rush :)
 * Hobbsee does not, if it's a sync request
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: backport
<persia> Hobbsee: backport, but given your current environment, likely not anyway.
<Hobbsee> nope, still can't tehn
<imbrandon> k, next archive run it is then :)
<limac> so first i have to be assigned to one of the bugs
<limac> ?
<limac> :)
<limac> ;)
<imbrandon> limac: no, but its best to make sure no one else is ( to not dupe efforts )
<limac> ok  then
<limac> I did that
<limac> oops disregard that
<imbrandon> debuild -S -sd
<imbrandon> err
<sharms> anyone have a minute to review a very small debdiff for a package that needs to be updated via SRU?
<RainCT> sharms: URL?
<sharms> http://www.sharms.org/files/ncpfix/ncpfs.debdiff
<sharms> the package compiled is at http://ppa.launchpad.net/sharms/ubuntu
<persia> sharms: 1) Your changelog & version is odd for an SRU.  2) Why the .po changes?
<RainCT> sharms: the email is wrong "sharms@ironforge"
<sharms> .po just was a result of the build script I believe
<bulio> lets say I'm creating a package for firefox3
<bulio> how can I get all the dependencies in my .deb?
<RainCT> bulio: it's already there, granparadiso
<RainCT> :P
<sharms> basically just the syslog.h and the uncommenting of the FIND_ISR fix bug #140464
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140464 in ncpfs "ncpfs 2.2.6-4 breaks ncpmount" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/140464
<bulio> RainCT, I know, I want to make my own
<RainCT> sharms:  you should remove changes from the diff that were added unexpectedly
<persia> bulio: Take a look at the firefox-3.0 package from hardy.
<persia> bulio: If you really want to do your own, just use it as an example.
<bulio> then manually copy the dependencies to my config file?
<sharms> RainCT, persia : I edited the debdiff, should look more sane now: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47409/
<limac> so I have to patch the bug huh? so all bugs should be patched?
<persia> sharms: Your version should be something like 2.2.6-4ubuntu1.1 (more than gutsy, less than hardy), and the target gutsy-proposed.  On the other hand, unless there's a strong argument otherwise, you probably want to put 2.2.6-4ubuntu2 into hardy first.  Further, I'd use 2 changelog lines.
<persia> limac: Most bugs require a patch to fix.  If you can fix it without changing the package, that's good too :)
<limac> ok so ALL of 'em don't require to b patched
<limac> :0
<limac> :)
<RainCT> limac: btw, what bug are you working on?
<sharms> persia: I have never done that before, when you are saying to use 2 changelog lines does that just mean the next entry up put in something like: ncpfs (2.2.6-4ubuntu2) hardy; urgency=low and below that have ncpfs (2.2.6-4ubuntu1.1) gutsy; urgency=low
<limac> I'm still looking for the ones that are not yet assingned to anybody
<persia> sharms: 2 changelog lines being one for the FTBFS and one for the -330 issue.  You'll want two separate debdiffs, one for hardy, and one for gutsy-proposed.  Note that I've yet to have a successful SRU, so I may not be the best person giving advice (but it at least matches the docs).
<sharms> persia: ok thanks :)
<limac> does the list of bugs always stay the same or do they refresh every once in a while?
<persia> limac: It refreshes constantly, based on user input.  On the other hand, the list of bitesize bugs doesn't change very often.
 * RainCT has just reported a bitesize bug
<limac> sweet
<RainCT> (well, actually I reported two, but one is already taken :P)
<oly-> could do with a bit of help, finally got my package to build, except the resulting .deb is 2.2k where as the tar.gz file is 21mb
<oly-> any ideas on what could be the cause ?
<RainCT> oly-: can you upload the source somewhere?
<oly-> yeah sure have to give me a few secs
<persia> oly-: You might also find something informative in the output of dpkg --contents foo.deb
<oly-> okay uploading, will try that as well persia,
<oly-> looks like its just not adding any files at all to the deb
 * RainCT notices that there's really a lot of demand for bitesize bugs :P
 * persia notes that packaging an existing patch is also a great way to help.
<RainCT> persia: shouldn't bugs with patches but no debdiff get the bitesize tag, too?
<persia> RainCT: No, as the patch may be wrong, or hard to understand.  Those patches need review & testing.  Many may be bitesize, but it's not much harder to debdiff them than to determine if they are.
<oly-> okay, i have uploaded the files http://ubuntusm.org/files/debian.tar.gz and http://ubuntusm.org/files/usm-core.orig.tar.gz
<oly-> if anyone wants to take a look, this is my first attempt at packaging so pointers would be useful,
<RainCT> ah
<oly-> i uploaded the debian folder, i created to build the package along with the source
<oly-> i am just using dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot to build it
<RainCT> oly-: (next time please upload .orig.tar.gz, diff.gz and the .dsc file and provide the link to the .dsc, as this way it can be downloaded with dget)
<oly-> oh, right sorry did not realise that :p
<oly-> i can upload if you like
<crimsun> yay, down to 10 bugs in PA core.
<RainCT> no don't worry
<oly-> i have a load of packages todo, so just want to get to a point where i can make suitable package to get into ubuntu
<metusaleh> Hi, I just uploaded my first patch to bug 121068 which corrects several bugs in the sysinfo package following this guide : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
<metusaleh> The guide suggested I try to find a developer in this channel to review the patch (as this is my first attempt I think it may be very useful :-) )
<metusaleh> There is an issue with the close button in the about dialog box that I did not manage to correct (maybe someone with more knowledge of glade could correct this)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121068 in sysinfo "sysinfo reports gutsy as lenny/sid" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/121068
 * RainCT is downloading
<oly-> yeah, its a bit big, i stripped a oad of files out as well
<persia> metusaleh: Thanks for working on this.  I'll take a look.
<persia> metusaleh: That's a nice comprehensive patch.  Thanks,  Would you like to work on integrating it into the distribution, or leave that for someone else?
<metusaleh> persia: I'd like to include it into the distribution but will need some help
<olopez> hi
<olopez> i'm want to lacate where ubutu load kernel modules , is it documented ?
<persia> metusaleh: The next step is to create a debdiff for the next revision including the patch.  Before doing that, it's worth looking at what other bugs affect the package, just to make sure you've gotten as many as you can (I think you may well have).
<crimsun> olopez: can you be more specific?
<olopez> yes
<olopez> ubuntu load some kernel modules that i don't want
<persia> metusaleh: Then, you'll want to determine which patch system the package is using (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems should help).
<crimsun> olopez: blacklist them
<RainCT> metusaleh:  if you have ubuntu-dev-tools installed, running what-patch on the terminal will tell you
<olopez> crimsun: i must put it on /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist , it is the way ?
<RainCT> olopez: yep
<crimsun> olopez: I recommend you use another file
<metusaleh> persia: I looked at all the sysinfo bugs that were reported in ubuntu and corrected all I could (which is most of them except the close button in the about box that does nothing and a possible incorrect cpu freq which I could not reproduce)
<metusaleh> Is there a webpage that explains how to create a debdiff ?
<crimsun> olopez: e.g., /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-olopez
<olopez> ok thanks crimsun
<persia> RainCT: Just as an enhancement, it might be worth checking ../foo.diff.gz with lsdiff -z to see if there are changes outside debian/ for the raw patch system.
<persia> metusaleh:
<crimsun> olopez: note the syntax in the other blacklist files, too.
<persia> metusaleh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing might be helpful for that.
<persia> See section 2
<persia> Err. 3.2
<olopez> if i black list a module , dependences are also blacklisted ?
<crimsun> olopez: no.
<olopez> ok i need blacklist module by module , thanks for the information i don't see it in any place
<persia> metusaleh: Essentially, you'll want to download the latest version in hardy, apply your patch, update the changelog, build, test, and run the debdiff command.
<metusaleh> persia: thanks, I'll give that a go
<persia> metusaleh: I've assigned you the bug (assuming that was your patch), so people know you are working on it.  Good luck, and ask here if you have any questions.
<RainCT> persia: I filed a bug on u-d-t about that
<persia> RainCT: You agree that's sensible then?  I wasn't sure.  Thanks.
<RainCT> persia: I don't know lsdiff, but if it just tells if there are changes outside debian/ or not then I agree that I'd be good to add the check
<persia> RainCT: It just lists all the files changed in a diff.  It's a useful tool, even if not integrated: you can find it in pathutils.
<persia> Err.  patchutils.
<RainCT> ah, I see
<cbx33> yo yo yo everybody
<RainCT> hey cbx33
<metusaleh> persia: thanks, I've set the other sysinfo bugs that should also be corrected to "In Progress"
<metusaleh> bye
<persia> metusaleh: Great.  You've also assigned yourself?
<RainCT> persia: ah I see. a "There are files modified outside debian/" notice would be good, I think
<metusaleh> persia: yes, I assigned myself
<persia> RainCT: I agree.  I really don't like packages that have changes in debian/patches/ and changes in the diff.gz directly.  One or the other, but both is just confusing.
<lynx> hi ubuntu masters...
<limac> hello
<limac> can't find any bugs I am comfortable with
<lynx> my problem: I 've nokia n73 mobile, i want to use it as USB Modem in my ubuntu os, but i dont know how to do for that, if u have any idea then plz tell me that how to do that..(use USB Modem)
<Nafallo> limac: find one you are not and get rid of it then? that should make you feel better ;-)
<persia> lynx: This really isn't a support channel.  You will likely have better luck in #ubuntu.
<Nafallo> lynx: re-direct to #ubuntu please. this isn't a support channel.
<olopez> crimsun: hi again
<crimsun> olopez: hi.
<lynx> then plz which s teat support channel that give me this question answer provide link for that
<persia> limac: Hmm.  That's harder then.  You might consider joining the bugsquad, and watching the bug traffic in #ubuntu-bugs, so you can be the first to grab the next easy one that gets reported.
<olopez> i blacklisted some modules joydev , apparmor and commoncap
<olopez> but i restart the computer and i do a lsmod and apparmor and commoncap are still there
<olopez> have you any idea ?
<limac> ok but I am waiting for new ones. and how exactly can i be a prospective developer?
<Nafallo> lynx: #ubuntu
<limac> what to do to become a prospective developer?
<oly-> RainCT, managed to download  it yet ? or is it being super slow
<imbrandon> limac: just by "wanting to" e.g. you already have staring today by comming here
<imbrandon> starting*
<cbx33> limac, learn, listen, try, help
<RainCT> oly-: ah yes, got it
<RainCT> let's see
<oly-> cool, probably something silly im doing :p
<RainCT> oly-:	I think stuff in /etc/usm should be in /usr/share/usm
<RainCT> oly-: changelog says "new upstream release" but it's the first one listed there
<oly-> why do you say that ? /etc/usm is the main program folder
<RainCT> oly-:	etc is for configuration files
<RainCT> oly-: you don't need uploaders: in debian/control if you are already the maintainer
<oly-> okay, will move it to /usr/share/usm
<RainCT> latest standards version is 3.7.3 afaik
<RainCT> XS-Vcs-Bzr should just be Vcs-Bzr now
<RainCT> and it's the repository for the package and now upstream's
<RainCT> "Upstream Author(s)"     remove the (s) or lintian will complain
<limac> what are some ugs u guys are working on?
<limac> bugs
<RainCT> (I would indicate https://launchpad.net/usm/+downloads but this doesn't really make a difference)
<oly-> okay, any ideas as to what woudl cause the files ending up in the deb though ?
<oly-> i am fixing the other bits now
<RainCT> I'm not sure but it seems to me that the stuff in postinst should rather be indebian/ rules
<RainCT> and about the rules files, I can't say anything because I use cdbs always :P
<oly-> okay, well i was using dpkg -b packagename to make my packages till i was told not to :p
<limac> on what types of bugs do u need to apply the patch to/
<oly-> is it likely to be the rules file, stopping my files ending up in the final deb ?
<oly-> made all the other changes except the postinst, that will require more research into the rules files
<oly-> at the moment though i want to just get a package built with all the files included so i can try it and make sure it works,
<RainCT> #$(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/usm-core install
<RainCT> the make is commented, might it be because of this?
<RainCT> oly- ^
<oly-> could be :)
<oly-> although uncommenting seems to have made no change :/
<oly-> is it most likely to be something in the rules file ?
<RainCT> indeed
<limac> how can I patch a bug?
<RainCT> limac: what bug is it?
<Flare183> !patch | limac
<ubotu> limac: Patches are files describing the changes in code to achieve some results.  There are a number of ways these can be produced, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems may provide some useful guidelines.
<limac> oh I am just curious
<limac> disregard that sr
<limac> thx ubotu
<RainCT> ubotu is a bot :P
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is a bot :p - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<limac> like a robot!:)
<limac> :)
<RainCT> heh
<oly-> thxs for all the help you have given RainCT,
<oly-> going to look into my rules file and see what i can figure out
<RainCT> oly-: you're welcome :)
<RainCT> ok, good luck
<limac> dumb question but what do u need to no to fix bugs!
<limac> is it basically like how we interacted in the forums or is it different?
<jpatrick> limac: prehaps https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs might help you?
<limac> thx jpatrick!!!!!
<bulio> how do I read an ecrypted PGP message?
<bulio> I have my key and all but I can't see the messagwe
<Nafallo> bulio: decrypt it
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bulio> Nafallo, how?
<bulio> I type gpg, then paste my message
<bulio> I enter my passkey
<bulio> but I can't see the msg
<Nafallo> bulio: why encrypt it again? :-)
<bulio> how do I decrypt it then?
<bulio> how do I decrypt it then?
<Nafallo> or hmm. maybe it does not.
<bulio> I can see the start of the message
<geser> bulio: was it encrypted to you?
<bulio> but how do I scroll it down in terminal
<bulio> geser, yes, from Ubuntu PPA
<Nafallo> so it IS decrypted then :-)
<bulio> Nafallo, but all i can see is the header
<geser> encrypted mails from PPA?
<bulio> yeah
<geser> since when is PPA sending encrypted mails?
<bulio> to enable PPA for the first time
<geser> ah
<geser> what error do you get from gpg?
<bulio> none
<bulio> I paste my pgp message
<bulio> but all I see is:
<geser> you can also put the encrypted text (including the ------ lines) into a file and use gpg --decrypt on it
<bulio> http://rafb.net/p/6cSlXH51.html
<Nafallo> bulio: you need a passphrase :-)
<bulio> that worked geser
<bulio> thanks!
<bulio> how do I build firefox 3 with the PPA?
<sistpoty> !pastebin | sistpoty
<bulio> !ppa bulio
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ppa bulio - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<sistpoty> anyone who'd like to proofread the meeting minutes? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47433/
<geser> sistpoty: only a minor correction: use 2007-12-21 for the date of the next meeting, I don't know how many people are used to parse 12/21 correctly. It took me some time during the meeting to parse it as a date.
<sistpoty> geser: ok, thanks
<bulio> how do I build firefox 3 with the PPA?
<sistpoty> and sent
<geser> bulio: have you a source package for it already?
<bulio> I have the nightly tarball
<ScottK> geser: Thanks for your mail on the MC list.
<geser> bulio: then you are missing the packaging bits
<bulio> which bits?
<geser> bulio: the debian/ dir or is it included in the nightly tarball?
<bulio> which bits?
<bulio> oops
<bulio> no
<bulio> ok I downloaded firefox source
<bulio> now what?
<Jazzva> bulio: Maybe you could go through FF2/3 source packages to see how they are built. AFAIK, building Mozilla packages is not a trivial thing :).
<bulio> Jazzva, but I want to make a .deb, which I can place in a repo for people to download
<Jazzva> bulio: You can get source packages by issuing "sudo apt-get source package-name", where "package-name" is "firefox" for FF2 and "firefox-3.0" for FF3
<sistpoty> *whistle*
 * Nafallo puts one of those party things in sistpoty 
<sistpoty> party things?
 * sistpoty is just having fun with revu-production *g*
<Nafallo> yepp. those who sound awful ;-)
<Jazzva> bulio: You still need to make rules file which will do all the stuff... Anyway, there is firefox 3 package in repositories (alpha 8 for Gutsy and beta 1 for Hardy, if I remember correctly). Also, you can get the latest from Ubulette's PPA.
<bulio> Jazzva, well I need to guide to do it on my own
<bulio> I'm interested in building my own Firefox-3 from the latest nightlies
<ScottK> bulio: Then build it locally and use it.  No need to tie up the PPA buildd's for that.
<bulio> ScottK, its for a distro based off Ubuntu
<Jazzva> bulio: Good luck :). I think that taking a look at rules file from firefox package from repos would be helpful.
<bluefoxicy> is there a discussion on why vmware-server was pulled from ubuntu
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: It wasn't
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  from partners?
<ScottK> I think they just pulled openssl097.  Isn't vmware-server still there?
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  it used to be in commercial, which became partners
<bluefoxicy> partners only has opera though last I looked
<ScottK> It was recently uploaded to partners
<Ubulette> Jazzva, fyi, I've pushed b1 for gutsy to my ppa a while ago too. i'm working on b2 right now
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  ah, ok, so they've added stuff since last month
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: Friday 30 November 2007
<bluefoxicy> ah thanks
<ScottK> Is when it was added.
<Jazzva> Ubulette: Yeah, I've seen it :). Tried to install it from deb in Gutsy, got tied up in dependencies, settled for a8 :).
<Ubulette> ?
<Ubulette> nss/nspr ?
<Jazzva> Yep, I think...
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  thanks
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  someone should maintain an rss feed that tells you when new stuff is added <_<
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: No problem.  There is one.  That's how I found out.
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  oh, where?
<Ubulette> Jazzva, everything was in my ppa. did you grab the debs manually or did you use it as a repo ?
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: It's the standard gutsy-changes RSS.
<ScottK> Let me lookl
<Jazzva> manually...
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  ah, there's rss feeds for changes  O_O  I didn't know that!  :D
<Jazzva> I'll try it later again :)...
<Jazzva> Ubulette ^^
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/rss/gutsy.xml
<bluefoxicy> ubuntu-nl  ??
<ScottK> Yes.  Seveas
<bluefoxicy> ah ok :)
<bluefoxicy> that explains a lot
<Seveas> ScottK, those feeds might actually move to ubuntuwire soon
<Seveas> need to talk to imbrandon about that :)
<ScottK> Seveas: OK.  Please warn us before you move them.
<Seveas> the current feeds will be replaces with a feed with one post containing the info :)
<bluefoxicy> The ethernet device "eth0" was not detected on your system.  Available ethernet devices detected on your system include ath0, eth1.  Are you sure you want to use this device? (yes/no) [no]
<bluefoxicy> Invalid default answer!
 * bluefoxicy hacks up the install script.
<bluefoxicy> bah I had to edit vmware-config-network.pl
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: This probably isn't the best channel for whining about proprietary software.  ;-)
<bluefoxicy> heh
<ScottK> imbrandon: When you approve a backport you're supposed to set it to In Progress (I just did that for Linda).
<_polto_> hello
<_polto_> how can i build a source package to be compiled on PPA if the source tar does not have central ./configure or Makefile ? the sources are normally build truth ./install-cris-tools and i should respond (by default) to all questions ...
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  where the hell do I go to figure out why this is broke
<bluefoxicy>    Bridged networking on /dev/vmnet0                                  failed
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: The people that support vmware.
 * ScottK really has no idea.
<bluefoxicy> k
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  vmware's support model is basically there's nowhere to contact them on the site last i looked ;p
<bluefoxicy> aside from sales
<ScottK> That sounds intentional.
<bluefoxicy> (I hate commercial software)
<ScottK> Then don't use it.  '-)
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  they're totally disinterested unless you pay $1000 for esx ;p
<ScottK> A Canonical support contract is cheaper than that ...
<RainCT> _polto_: if install-cris-tools has a way to don't let it ask questions and to tell it to install stuff in debian/<package name>, then call it in debian/rules. if not, you can either patch it, or do the same yourself
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  well it's $1000 for ESX, and then you can get a premium support package or smth on top of it
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  ubuntu forums is cheaper than that
<ScottK> Well sometimes you get what you pay for.
<ScottK> You might ask zul.
<RainCT> bluefoxicy: why not use virtualbox?
<_polto_> RainCT, thanks
<sistpoty> ok, gotta go... cya
<RainCT> _polto_: yw :)
<bluefoxicy> RainCT:  because virtualbox is impossible to get non-nat networking working
<bluefoxicy> I tried
<RainCT> ah
<bluefoxicy> I wrote scripts and screwed with bridged networking and in the end it disabled my wireless and I had to uninstall brctl and reboot
<bluefoxicy> heh vmware just doesn't work with wifi
<Ubulette> I still need a sponsor for Bug 174739. It contains 3 security fixes.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174739 in seamonkey "[upgrade] seamonkey 1.1.7" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174739
<bobbo> Hi, ive built a package with some bug fixes for showfsck but im totally stuck on getting it included. How do i go about this?
<pochu> bobbo: uploading to REVU is a good idea
<pochu> !revu | bobbo
<ubotu> bobbo: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<pochu> bobbo: another option is to post the debdiff in the launchpad bugs and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<bobbo> Can a REVU admin sync my key into the REVU keyring?
<pochu> siretart, imbrandon, LongPointyStick ^
<pochu> bobbo: I assume you are in ~ubuntu-universe-contributors and have your key in your launchpad profile, right?
<bobbo> yes just signed up to ~ubuntu-universe-contributors, they key is just the key you use to sign the code of conduct right?
<pochu> yep
<bobbo> pochu, guessing im waiting til the cron sync tonight then?
<pochu> bobbo: I think an admin needs to run it manually
<pochu> i.e. there's no cron for it
<Ubulette> there's no more cron for that
<bobbo> all night IRC camp :D
<pochu> hey Ubulette
<johnny_> hi, how do you build an ubuntu package?
<johnny_> i have built a package, but it seems to be debian style
<johnny_> am i missing an option?
<ScottK> johnny_: That's the type of packaging that Ubuntu uses.
<johnny_> ldm depends on libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.18.3); however:
<johnny_>   Version of libpango1.0-0 on system is 1.18.2-0ubuntu1.
<johnny_> oops.. that's a bad difference
<johnny_> lemme try to get my old output
<ScottK> johnny_: I think you need to ask a more specific question.
<RainCT> is there any doc on bash completion?
<ScottK> RainCT: You are remembering that Dash is the default shell in Ubuntu, right?
 * RainCT would like to add tab autocompletion to some scripts, like desktop-file-validate and pbuilder-dist..
<ScottK> Right, but don't assume Bash.
<RainCT> ScottK: why is it reading ~/.bashrc then?
<ScottK> Dunno.
<pwnguin> is dash the default shell for users?
<pwnguin> i thought bash still was
<ScottK> Could be.
 * ScottK is not an expert and all the systems I have handy were upgraded from earlier releases.
<pwnguin> its just the scripts that say #!/bin/sh that expect bash that get hosed
 * RainCT known autocompletion works by adding a file in /etc/bash_completion.d/, but can't find any documentation about it's syntax..
<Ubulette> bash is still the default for users but sh is a link to dash
<RainCT> ah
<Ubulette> did you read /usr/share/doc/bash/README.bash_completion.gz ?
<Ubulette> there are also tons of examples in /usr/share/doc/bash/completion-contrib/
<Ubulette> you just need to be fluent in shell ;)
<RainCT> doesn't really help much.. but thanks :)
<Ubulette> just take one as a starting point and modify it. that's the easiest way
<ScottK> Are we on Standards version 3.7.3 like Debian is now?
<cdm10> I'm learning to write Python programs, and I'd like to learn how to package them for Ubuntu. What's the best way to go about learning this?
<pochu> ScottK: yes, although lintian needs to be merged/synced
<ScottK> cdm10: Are you learning to use Python distutils as part of your learning to use Python?
<ScottK> pochu: Thanks.
<cdm10> ScottK: No, I'm not sure what that is or how to use it. I just have a gtk/glade app that I'd like to learn how to put into an Ubuntu package.
<ScottK> cdm10: OK.  In general packaging stuff done in Python is very easy if you have a distutils setup.py.  I'd suggest you look into that first.
<cdm10> ScottK: okay. Any resources for learning that?
<ScottK> cdm10: You can find it in the Python docs on python.org.
<cdm10> alright.
<ScottK> cdm10: You can also look at python packages for examples.  apt-get source pypolicyd-spf will give you one example.
<cdm10> ScottK: unable to find source pkg for that
<cdm10> ScottK: that's ok, I tried alacarte and that worked
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> cdm10: What release are you running?
<Amaranth> alacarte doesn't use distutils
<RainCT> great, got autocompletion for desktop-file-validate working :)
<Amaranth> Ah, RainCT, that reminds me :)
<Amaranth> The policy of marking bugs in launchpad as medium importance just to get them off the list of untouched bugs is really annoying
<RainCT> heh
<Amaranth> you seemed to have been the one that touched bugs i get mail for :)
<Amaranth> for compiz we actually _use_ the importance so getting a bunch of medium bugs disrupts things
<cdm10> ScottK: Gutsy
<RainCT> Amaranth: well.. I'll leave those then. sorry
<ScottK> cdm10: I imagine you don't have source packages for Universe enabled then.
<cdm10> ScottK: that's possible, hold on
<Amaranth> all the other things are fine but changing the importance puts a whole bunch of bugs on the "need to look at for next release" list
<Amaranth> dupe checking and such is appreciated though :)
<ScottK> Anyone running Gnome have a moment to check something for me?
<cdm10> ScottK: sure
<Amaranth> ScottK: What do you need?
 * Fujitsu also flies in.
<ScottK> cdm10: (since you volunteered first) please open a python shell
<cdm10> ScottK: done
<ScottK> do 'import os'
<cdm10> yep
<ScottK> then 'print os.environ'
<frenchy> Hi persia.
<cdm10> ScottK: should i pastebin that?
<ScottK> cdm10: Yes please.
<Amaranth> are you looking for a particular variable?
<ScottK> Amaranth: XAUTHORITY
<cdm10> /home/caleb/.Xauthority
<Amaranth> /home/travis/.Xauthority
<ScottK> My Kubuntu doesn't have it set and I'm not sure if it's reasonable to expect it.
<frenchy> Just a quick question, what lintian command are you running that generates the warnings for the manual page for me-tv?
<Amaranth> I thought gdm set that
<cdm10> Amaranth: and Kubuntu uses KDM... perhaps it behaves differently.
<Amaranth> right
<Amaranth> kdm should die :P
<ScottK> Right.  Gotta run for dinner.  Back in a bit.
 * Fujitsu watches ScottK vaporise Amaranth,
<ScottK> Amaranth: Some of us feel that way about GDM.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: It's dinnertime and vaporizing takes more time than I have right now.
<Amaranth> I was under the impression that this is one area where most people were in agreement that gdm was better :P
<Fujitsu> LaserRock!
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<_16aR__> Hello
<_16aR__> I've got a question about env variables into packages/lib
<_16aR__> I'm packaging some lib which needs env var to be set to run ok
<_16aR__> but as I read the debian policy, it shouldn't
<_16aR__> So I'm wondering what to do : modify the source to add the base path where to search at the end of the GetBlaBlaRootPath() ?
<_16aR__> and where must I put the base directory which the env var reference ?
<_16aR__> /usr/share/packagename/ ?
<geser> _16aR__: what about a wrapper that sets the env variables and starts then the real programm?
<T70K5> I try to boot my machine and I get Grub error 17
<bobbo> T70K5, #ubuntu for support, this is packaging
<T70K5> oh ok, sorry
<_16aR__> geser: it is not a program but libraries
<_16aR__> geser: I've thought of it, but then I became aware that it wouldn't be useful since I have no executables :p
<_16aR__> geser: Or maybe miss I something ?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Since cdm10 didn't pastebin his 'print os.environ' would you please?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Sure.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Thanks.
<LaserJock> hi ScottK
<ScottK> Hi LaserJock
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Want it formatted in any particular way, or just a raw Python representation?
<minghua> _16aR__: Which env variable does this library needs exactly?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Raw is fine.  Whatever's easiest
<geser> _16aR__: does the env vars have a sensible default value that would be used by all packages using that lib and could be patched in?
<minghua> _16aR__: And I can't think of any other way to "use" a library other than linking to it...
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Well, it didn't pastebin well, but you can at least see it:
<Fujitsu> http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/47478/
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Thanks.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I see you've got XAUTHORITY': '/home/william/.Xauthority', so it looks like I have to work around that for KDM.  That's what I needed to see.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Or move everybody to GDM. I'll hide now.
<_16aR__> minghua: DELTA_ROOT and DELTA_DATA
<_16aR__> minghua: in the same way of the openscenegraph libs uses OSG_ROOT and OSG_DATA
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I'd be more likely to remove the code that uses XAUTHORITY.  The program already has to be root, so I think there's little point in the additional check.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-09
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Ah, that does seem a bit odd.
<_16aR__> geser: the 2 env var are primarily used to get default config file and media data (textures, sounds, 3D models)
<minghua> _16aR__: Is there a sane default for those two variables?
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, does anyone know which channel I should ask for a review my translation file ? https://translations.launchpad.net/easycrypt/trunk/+imports
<minghua> _16aR__: Maybe this software should switch to using a config file instead...
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: #launchpad is the right place, or just wait.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Fortunately the app is in Python, so I can pick at is and make sure I understand what it is doing.  It already checks if it's in KDE or Gnome, so adding a bit to pull in XAUTHORITY when in KDE should be easy enough.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: I did that : thanks - ill wait now
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Ah.
<minghua> StevenHarperUK: No idea at all.  ubuntu-translators@l.u.c list is probably worth trying (if you mean the POT file).
<Fujitsu> minghua: 'tis a task that only Rosetta administrators can perform.
<LaserJock> and they get to it when they get to it
<LaserJock> generally
<_16aR__> minghua: I think that I can put every "base" media files into a /usr/share/ dire
<_16aR__> dir **
<minghua> StevenHarperUK: Listen to Fujitsu then. :-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: They only sometimes get to it when they get to it? That sounds odd.
<minghua> _16aR__: I probably don't know enough about the package to make more comments, then.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: sometimes if you bug them properly and do the right chants they might get to it quicker ;-)
<_16aR__> minghua: since it is a Path env var, You can add your own if you need to
<_16aR__> like
<_16aR__> myOwnGameDire/data:otherDir:/usr/share/package/data
<frenchy> Hi everyone, I've been told that my package generates a manpage-has-bad-whatis-entry.  When I run a `lintian *.changes` or a `lintian *.deb` against my packages then I don't get the warning.  Can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong.
<ScottK> frenchy: What release are you running?
<frenchy> Gutsy.
<ScottK> frenchy: If you don't have backports enabled, enable it and install the updated lintian from that.
<ScottK> That would be a first step.
<frenchy> ScottK: Thanks, I'll try that.
<Nafallo> Geisty *giggles*
<frenchy> ScottK: Got backports. Have lintian 1.23.36 (default gutsy is 1.23.32).
<ScottK> Try that and see if you get the error.
<ScottK> Gotta run.
<frenchy> ScottK: ok, cya.  I already had it all set up when I ran it the first time.
<frenchy> Can anyone else help please?
<frenchy> Pretty please?
<albert23> frenchy: does the description on top of this page help? http://lintian.debian.org/reports/Tmanpage-has-bad-whatis-entry.html
<frenchy> albert23: Hi, well "yes" and "no".  I was told of the man page warning via REVU so I fixed the man page (or so I thought).  And uploaded again only to find out that it's still happening.  I don't want to waste peoples time checking the same warning and would like to know how I can get the warning reported so I know when it's fixed.
<frenchy> albert23: I really thought I'd fixed it.
<frenchy> I've got:
<frenchy> .SH NAME
<frenchy> Me TV \- a digital television (DVB) viewer for GNOME
<albert23> frenchy: you could try to use manedit to edit the man page
<frenchy> I didn't have the description before.  Which is what the manpage-has-bad-whatis-entry warning is about.
<frenchy> albert23: Hmmm ... nice idea.
<albert23> and maybe lintian -i -v will say more
<frenchy> albert23: Would that error be generated from the *.changes or the *.deb?
<albert23> I would think the deb, but I am not sure. I only had a  man problem once so far
<geser> lintian (or linda) *.changes checks the source package and the binary debs
<frenchy> albert23: -i -v didn't help against either.  But thanks for your help.  I'll try manedit.  I didn't know it existed.
<frenchy> geser: Is that the changes from the source (-S) build or binary build?
<geser> lintian *.changes checks all the mentioned files there, if you use the one with source only then only the source is checked, if you use on that has source and binary (like from pbuilder) than both are checked
<frenchy> geser: Thanks.  I haven't using pbuilder.  I've been dpkg-buildpackaging-ing.  That'll change now.
<frenchy> *I haven't been using pbuilder
<zul> evening
<LaserJock> hi zul
<zul> hey LaserJock how goes it?
<LaserJock> oh alright I guess
<LaserJock> trying to figure out what to do with this case
<LaserJock> I've  got 4 cases and a number of parts
<LaserJock> the toughest part seems to be that the motherboards never seem to work with the front connections on the cases
<Nafallo> LaserJock: rack mountable?
<LaserJock> hahaha ... no
<LaserJock> at least I wouldn't think
<Nafallo> :-P
<LaserJock> and I don't have a rack to try/use
<Nafallo> would be easy to see on them :-)
<Nafallo> sounds like desktops ;-)
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I've never had a rack
<LaserJock> I don't think I've ever seen one either
<RainCT> good night.  (btw, if a core dev is arround please consider sponsoring bug #175000 :P)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175000 in desktop-file-utils "Bash completion for desktop-file-validate" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175000
<LaserJock> but I know the general idea of what it should look like I think
<Nafallo> LaserJock: http://www.sentralsystems.com/offers.html
<Nafallo> that's about it :-)
<Nafallo> http://www.sentralsystems.com/ispserv.html
<Nafallo> that might even be better :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, yeah
<LaserJock> are they like standard ATX or micro-ATX motherboards or do they have to be special?
<Nafallo> the bluearc is also rackmounted.
<Nafallo> http://www.bluearc.com/products/titan.shtml
<Nafallo> depends on the chassi.
<blueyed> icedtea is not installable in hardy currently, is it?
<Nafallo> sentral has some half depths, which takes micro I think :-)
<LaserJock> ok, so what is all the 1U, 2U ,etc.?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's the height of the device.
<Nafallo> U = unit.
<Fujitsu> Most full-size racks are 47U.
<Nafallo> 1U = three rackscrews :-)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: most are 43U mate :-)
<Fujitsu> Blah, same thing.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: that's why Juniper T640 is half rack. 21U ;-)
<Fujitsu> Ah, right.
<Nafallo> insanely kewl monster that one :-)
<Nafallo> and scales well.
<Fujitsu> One would hope.
<LaserJock> were do you get a rack?
<LaserJock> do they just sell those in stores?
<ScottK> LaserJock: You've got lasers.  Make one.
<ScottK> ;-)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Fujitsu> I think you can get them cheaply from PONIES PONIES PONIES.
<Fujitsu> Ahem.
<Nafallo> minitran.co.uk for example.
<Nafallo> prism...
<Nafallo> etc.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I suppose I could have the machinist make me one
<Nafallo> APC
<ScottK> That or head over to the computer science department and steal one.
<LaserJock> hmmm, that sounds fun
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure where CS is
<LaserJock> I should convince my boss that we need a rack
<Fujitsu> Biggles! Bring in the rack!
<ScottK> Stealing sounds more fun.
<Nafallo> we have a rack in the office :-)
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: That's not particularly surprising.
<Nafallo> and... 18(?) in our suite? :-)
<LaserJock> we just have desktops stacked wherever we can get some space
<Nafallo> so that's 19.
<LaserJock> same thing with the clusters
<Nafallo> and then we colo some in THN.
<Nafallo> so 20 racks ;-)
<LaserJock> Nafallo: mostly full?
<Nafallo> mostly full
<Nafallo> we need more racks :-P
<Nafallo> well, I'm tasked to design them :-)
<Nafallo> will need to be remotly bootable and have nice cabling this time around ;-)
<Nafallo> +e
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<StevenK> dh_shlibdeps -a --dpkg-shlibdeps-params=--ignore-missing-info
<StevenK> Hrrrm. Which now dies a horrid death.
<StevenK> Hurray, and a C++ strictness failure for another package.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> bddebian!
 * StevenK waves to bddebian and to the PONY that just appeared.
<bddebian> Heh, heya LaserJock, StevenK
 * StevenK idly wonders about lunch.
 * StevenK chuckles
 * GoldenPony tries to chuckle, but fails due to anatomical differences.
<StevenK> Settle for a comical neigh?
<GoldenPony> Nay, just a normal neigh.
 * StevenK throws nine uploads at Soyuz and yells "Catch!"
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> Which is nice of StevenK, since soyuz likes to eat uploads for lunch.
<StevenK> Yeah, well
<Fujitsu> ScottK: It needs feeding, so what do you expect?
 * ScottK wasn't complaining, just complimenting StevenK on his generousity.
 * LaserJock wonders if Soyuz like Scoobie Snacks
<Fujitsu> !soyuzsnack
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about soyuzsnack - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Fujitsu> Aw...
<bulio> I'm just wondering, can I find a guide on how to create a ubuntu package?
<ScottK> !packagingguide | bulio
<ubotu> bulio: packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<StevenK> Maybe we need to add a Soyuz Snack factoid that it's whatever was most recently uploaded?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Haha.
<Fujitsu> `Mmm, thanks $UPLOADER.'
<StevenK> Haha
<limac> How can i fix bugs?
<limac> dumb question but
<bulio> jeez, making a package seems tough :S
<limac> I read the tutorial on howto fix bugs and there they are saying that we have to collect the sources. where are we going to get the sources from?
<DarkMageZ> bulio, it gets easier as you get to understand it
<bulio> which is the easiest way to make a firefox package
<Fujitsu> We have a Firefox package already.
<bulio> I know, its a firefox 3 beta2 package I want to make
<Fujitsu> We have beta1.
<Ubulette> ..and firefox is not really the easiest package to learn packaging
<Fujitsu> And beta2 should be in the package soon enough.
<Fujitsu> +1 Ubulette
<Ubulette> :)
<DarkMageZ> :( @ requiring hardy for Ubulette's firefox packages
<LaserJock> limac: you need to have the source repos enabled and then you can run apt-get source <package> to get the source
<Ubulette> DarkMageZ, i did gutsy too.
<limac> ok thx I'll try and let u no. :)
<DarkMageZ> oh. link me again ã
<limac> LaserJock
<Ubulette> https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+packages
 * Fujitsu is allergic to anything with FTA in it.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ?
<Ubulette> Fujitsu, why ?
<StevenK> Therefore, you're allergic to Launchpad. It makes you break out in complaining.
<Fujitsu> Free Trade Agreement.
<StevenK> Ahh.
<StevenK> Did we end up signing that?
<Fujitsu> We did.
<Fujitsu> Quite some time ago.
<StevenK> It remains to be seen how Rudd treats Bush
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Fujitsu> I will be most interested.
<Fujitsu> Good to see Kyoto done, though.
<limac> allright, they are then saying to create a backup directory, how is that done???
<LaserJock> limac: what are you reading?
<LaserJock> and I would think you could just make a directory somewhere convenient
<limac> actually nm i got the answer
<limac> but after i do that how can i get access to the sources code?
<limac> source code
<LaserJock> did you get the source package?
<limac> yup
 * GoldenPony makes pony noises.
<limac> actually hold on, what do u mean by "getting the sources package"?
<Ubulette> apt-get source something
<limac> I so far ran these two cammands: apt -get <package> and cp -a <dir>
<frenchy> I have a warning from pbuilder build "dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends}".  Can I simply remove it safely?  I don't know where it's come from and has probably been in there from the start.
<ScottK> frenchy: Ignore the warning.
<frenchy> ScottK: Leave it in there?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> dpkg-gencontrol is behind the times.
<LaserJock> limac: you want to do apt-get source <package>
<frenchy> ScottK: Ok, sorry to ask the obviuos.
<ScottK> Actually I've no idea if you need it or not, but the dpkg-gencontrol warning is irrelevant.
<ScottK> frenchy: No problem.
<limac> LaserJock, I did that.
<StevenK> What it's warning is that misc:Depends expands to nothing
<LaserJock> limac: ok, then the source should be in the directory you were in when you ran that
<limac> Laserjack, but where???
<frenchy> StevenK: Yeah, I figured that so I thought that I could remove it.
<LaserJock> StevenK: really? I thought it always gave that
<LaserJock> limac: in the directory that you were in where you issued that command
<StevenK> LaserJock: It will only complain about it if it's empty.
<LaserJock> StevenK: cool, that's good to know
<StevenK> LaserJock: debconf will, for example, put itself into misc:Depends
<limac> usually what extensions does it have or how can i figure out which one it is, there are so many things in it!
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Are you planning on looking at the python-numpy merge/sync?
<LaserJock> StevenK: yes, I know why it's there, I just didn't know that it threw that warning when it was empty
<LaserJock> limac: what was the package that you did?
<limac> kdeutils
<StevenK> LaserJock: Because it's specified in the control file, and it isn't listed in debian/substvars
<Ubulette> strange, all 9 ppa builders are idle. I've pushed something 3h ago, it's not even in queue.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I haven't heard anything more from Ondrej. I'll talk to him when I see him online again.
<LaserJock> limac: ok, then there should be a .dsc file, a .diff.gz file and a .orig.tar.gz file
<LaserJock> limac: that's the source package
<limac> hold on let me see
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I was more thinking along the lines of I touched it last, but really would rather not worry about it, so I want to make sure you will...
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: I wouldn't quite call that strange. It's normal, albeit broken, Soyuz behaviour.
<LaserJock> limac: and you should see a new directory starting with kdeutils that is the unpacked source
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: Which package?
<Ubulette> xulrunner-1.9_1.9~b2~cvs20071207t1611+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~fta1
<LaserJock> uggg, what a version
<Ubulette> :)
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: I can't see that in your PPA.
<Ubulette> i know
<Ubulette> that's why i said it's strange
 * minghua wonders if there is a fixed buffer size for version number...
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: Did you get an acceptance email?
<Ubulette> no reject, no accept, nothing
<limac> LaserJosk: did u get that, that's what the dir holds
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: Ah, upload again. You probably didn't sign it properly.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I find 2:0.99+1.0pre7try2+cvs20060117-0ubuntu8.1 fairly fowl (Dapper's mplayer)
<blueyed> minghua: aptitude uses 10 chars by default to display versions.. ;)
<Fujitsu> s/fowl/foul/
<Ubulette> Fujitsu, hmm, i'm sure i did
<Ubulette> it's not my 1st up either ;)
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: Alternatively, you may have used an incorrect email format in the .changes, or a multitude of undocumented ways to get silent rejections.
<Ubulette> arh
<LaserJock> limac: I didn't, you can pastebin it if you want
<LaserJock> !pastebin > limac
<Ubulette> gasp, i pushed to revu instead of ppa :P
<minghua> blueyed: Only when it's sent to 80-column terminals.
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: Haha.
<Ubulette> how do I nuke that on revu ?
<limac> LaserJock: How can i paste bin it?
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: You can't. Only one of the four REVU gods can do it.
<LaserJock> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<LaserJock> limac: ^^
<blueyed> minghua: no, see http://people.debian.org/~dburrows/aptitude-doc/en/ch02s04s01.html
<Ubulette> please, REVU Gods, kill xulrunner-1.9 (and archive prism)
<limac> LaserJock: how can I attach  a picture to it?
<minghua> blueyed: Right.  I was thinking of dpkg.
<blueyed> Any lib transition experts around? Is the changed desc for bug 78309 correct?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78309 in giflib "libungif to giflib transition" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78309
<LaserJock> limac: don't, just copy and paste what you get in a terminal
<limac> huh?
<limac> LaserJock:huh?
<LaserJock> limac: just copy and paste the text you get when you look at the directory contents in a terminal, i.e. ls
<limac> LaserJock:gotcha
<limac> LaserJock:Didn't really think of it that way!
<limac> LaserJock:after pasting what shoul i do to send it to you?
<minghua> blueyed: Unless libgif4 and libungif4g are ABI compatible, the description in bug 78309 is completely wrong.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78309 in giflib "libungif to giflib transition" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78309
<blueyed> minghua: my guess is, that they are compatible, but I don't know.
<minghua> blueyed: ... ABI compatible, and that libgif4 provides a /usr/lib/libungif.4.so symlink, that is.
<blueyed> minghua: both ship /usr/lib/libgif.so.4.1.4
<minghua> blueyed: Then I suggest not using words like "A quick fix for this appears to be ..." in the description.
<minghua> blueyed: "The libungif library is a specially modified version of giflib which is free of the Unisys LZW patent. It can read all GIFs, but only write uncompressed GIFs. If you need to be able to write compressed GIFs, you can install the giflib packages instead."
<minghua> blueyed: Doesn't sound ABI compatible to me.
<blueyed> minghua: sounds like libgif adds more functionality/symbols "only".
<blueyed> I guess anything that builds against libungif builds also against giflib, don't you think?
<minghua> blueyed: Maybe, maybe not.
<minghua> blueyed: Guessing doesn't help, you need to first compare the symbols, then read a bit more about the code to be sure.
<LaserJock> limac: sorry, just give me the URL here
<limac> LaserJock:sure hold on a sec
<Ubulette> is there a way to speed up sponsorship of seamonkey ? or are the security fixes in hardy not important ?
<minghua> I think security fixes in hardy is not important.
<limac> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47486/
<LaserJock> limac: yep, that's the source
<Ubulette> for me, security always matter but i'm biased, i'm running what I build
<limac> LaserJock: WHich one?
<LaserJock> limac: all of it
<Fujitsu> minghua: I treat security fixes in Hardy as just as important as the rest, and they're normally quicker.
<limac> LaserJock: so how do i edit it(fix it)
<Fujitsu> s/the rest/other releases/
<LaserJock> limac: the packaging bits (the part that is for creating an Ubuntu package) are in the debian/ directory
<LaserJock> limac: well, you gotta figure out what's wrong, and then fix it :-)
<minghua> Fujitsu: Sure.  I'm just saying *I* don't expect hardy to have very in-time security updates.  If there indeed are, it's good. :-)
<Fujitsu> minghua: Hardy will be more up-to-date security-wise than any other release.
<limac> LaserJock: so this is where my skills come in handy! :P
<limac> :)
<LaserJock> yep
<Ubulette> bug 174739
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174739 in seamonkey "[upgrade] seamonkey 1.1.7" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174739
<limac> thnx dude, thx a lot for all the help
<LaserJock> limac: no problem
<Ubulette> i already have asac's approval
<Fujitsu> Urgh, Mozilla.
<limac> LaserJock: I'll ask u if i have any further problems. Hope that's ok with u! :)
<Ubulette> Fujitsu, yep, i like that
<minghua> Fujitsu: Good to know.  And thank you for that.  (Although I don't use hardy...)
<LaserJock> limac: if I'm around no problem
<LaserJock> otherwise feel free to ask the channel in general
<limac> LaserJock: thx again
<limac> see ya around then
<bulio> is there another channel I can hang out in to learn about creating and maintaining a repository?
<DarkMageZ> bulio, use the personal package archives?
<bulio> DarkMageZ, I have no idea how to upload source on to them
<bulio> I signed as a ubuntero, and created a PGP key
<LaserJock> bulio: there is a QuickStartGuid on the launchpad wiki
<LaserJock> bulio: https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
<bulio> I'm confused
<LaserJock> bulio: about what?
<bulio> I have thew latest AWN source code
<bulio> now what do I do with it to get the PPA to build it?
<bulio> PPA says something about dput
<bulio> but source.changes, not the actual source code
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> you might want to read over the packaging guide a bit
<LaserJock> a _source.changes file holds the md5sums of the source package components
<bulio> so how do I create that?
<LaserJock> and so when you give it to dput it knows what to upload
<LaserJock> bulio: the easiest way is to create a source package and run debuild -S
<bulio> whats the command to create a source package
<LaserJock> well, debuild -S
<LaserJock> bulio: do you have a source package already or do you just have a tarball of the source code?
<bulio> source code from bazaar checkout
<LaserJock> does it have a debian/ directory?
<bulio> nope
<bulio> wait, yes it does
<Jazzva> Hmm, Ubuntu can't use .menu files for menu entries, right?
<LaserJock> Jazzva: well, kinda
<LaserJock> not by default
<LaserJock> but you can install a package that gives you the Debian menu
<LaserJock> bulio: ok, then try running debuild -S in the source directory
<Jazzva> LaserJock: But that's not by default :). I installed gtwitter and noticed it doesn't provide a desktop file, but it does provide a .menu file. I suppose it's can be confusing to a typical user...
<LaserJock> Jazzva: there are a great many packages like that
<Jazzva> LaserJock: That's not good, right :)?
<LaserJock> Jazzva: I'm not sure what the current "policy" is, but if there are already Ubuntu changes you might add a .desktop
<minghua> Jazzva: It's not default in Debian either.
<Jazzva> Nope, there are none so far :/...
<Jazzva> So, should I file a bug in LP and attach a desktop file?
<LaserJock> Jazzva: you might file a bug in Debian actually
<LaserJock> and see if they will add it there
<Jazzva> LaserJock: Ok... I'll do that.
<Jazzva> Thanks for the help :)
<bulio> LaserJock, I'm getting an error
<bulio> running debuild -S inside avant-window-navigator source dir
<bulio> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk'.  Stop.
<bulio> debuild: fatal error at line 1247:
<LaserJock> bulio: ok, you need to install cdbs
<bulio> debuild: fatal error at line 1174:
<bulio> running debsign failed
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> because the you aren't the person in the changelog :-)
<LaserJock> to get around it for the moment you can debuild -S -us -uc
<LaserJock> but once you add a changelog entry (i.e. before you upload) in debian/changelog then drop those to sign the package
<bulio> oh, so I need to edit the changelog?
<LaserJock> well, if you want to upload yes
<LaserJock> you'll want to have a proper version, perhaps set yourself as maintainer of your package, etc.
<ScottK> persia: Are you able to take another look at disk-manager?  I think it's all fixed up now (and looking for 2nd advocate). http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=disk-manager
<hudyx> hi sll
<hudyx> all
<Hobbsee> ScottK: nice mails
<bulio> LaserJock, how do I create a proper version then?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<hudyx> I'm trying to install Ubuntu for the first time, but I can't even get my new Vista machine to boot from the LiveCD
 * ScottK just got Scotch in prepartion for replying to geser's latest.
<ScottK> hudyx: The channel for support is #ubuntu.
<StevenK> ScottK: On -motu?
<ScottK> StevenK: motu-council.
<LaserJock> bulio: well, for PPAs you want something that isn't going to conflict with something that's already in the archives or will be in the future
<LaserJock> bulio: generally it's good to include something like ~ppaX where X is 1,2,3... for each upload you do
<bulio> LaserJock, can we go through this step by step?
<bulio> btw, I appreciate all the help
<bulio> Ok, so I have an AWN dir, now what do I do so that I can have a proper version
<bulio> in which I am pkg maintainer
<LaserJock> bulio: run dch -i
<LaserJock> that will help you edit the changelog
<bulio> ok, done that
<LaserJock> so make sure to set the name and email address to the exact same as in your gpg key
<bulio> done
<LaserJock> what version do you have in the first line
<bulio> of what
<LaserJock> of the changelog
<bulio> avant-window-navigator-trunk (0.2.1+bzr-1ubuntu1) gutsy; urgency=low
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> that's kind of a funky package name with -trunk
<LaserJock> bulio: can you pastebin the entire changelog for me?
<LaserJock> ScottK, Hobbsee: just sent a reply
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks.  Me too.
<bulio> LaserJock, http://rafb.net/p/EVOolK64.html
<LaserJock> bulio: that's the whole thing?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks.  I'll have a reply for that in a moment.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you got moderated, i take it?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ++
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: shouldn't
<limac> LaserJock: Sorry for the interruption but I am just curious: what languages do u prefer knowing in order to help resolve bugs?
<bulio> LaserJock, yeah
<LaserJock> limac: knowing anything is great
<LaserJock> limac: generally bash, python, and C/C++ are great
<limac> LaserJock: What if we don't konw anything (I'm am on the verge of learning c++)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: His went out.
<Hobbsee> ah, it just came late
<LaserJock> limac: then you might want to focus on packaging bugs or things that don't require fixing the actual code
<LaserJock> limac: I'm on the verge of learning C++ too ;-)
<limac> LaserJock: I guess i'll just learn the languages first, packaging bugs is boring. But fixing the code is challenging and fun!
<limac> :)
<limac> LaserJock:Thnx again and see ya around later. ;0
<LaserJock> ScottK: I'm really not sure if anything can actually be enforced
<Ubulette> oh, a langpack flood in ppa :P
<Ubulette> i'm going to bed. that will take a day
<Ubulette> cu
<nenolod> who should i ask for a rebuild to be triggered on xmms-crossfade?
<nenolod> or should i wait for the sync to pull in xmms-crossfade 0.3.14-1 instead? :)
<Hobbsee> Source version: 0.3.14-1 is in hardy already
 * Hobbsee retries
 * ScottK goes and does merges.
<LordKow> hm i wonder why the new pulseaudio is using policykit when there is no policy for it
<LordKow> and why is it trying to run w/ realtime priority? hmm.
<LordKow> pulseaudio[6616]: main.c: Called SUID root and real-time/high-priority scheduling was requested in the configuration. However, we lack the necessary priviliges: main.c: We are not in group 'pulse-rt' and PolicyKit refuse to grant us priviliges. Dropping SUID again.
<LordKow> weird, i ran pulseaudio --dump-config and according to the configuration pulseaudio should not be trying to run realtime
<LordKow> oh yay and now its segfaulting. time to downgrade back to 0.9.7
<StevenK> dns.cpp:817: error: 'void* libfwbuilder::DNS_bulkBackResolve_Thread(void*)' should have been declared inside 'libfwbuilder'
<StevenK> What does that error actually mean?
<persia> StevenK: It means you've called a function in a namespace different than that it was declared.
<persia> (in which)
<ScottK> persia: Are you going to be able to review
<StevenK> persia: But :817 is a function declaration
<persia> ScottK: Yes.  dget just finished.
<persia> StevenK: Right, but it is not in the right namespace: you7re declaring a foreign function, which you oughtn't do.
<StevenK> It seems 2.1.14 has fixes for gcc 4.2 and 4.3
<LordKow> you have to declare the function in the proper namespace
<ScottK> persia: Great.  I'm not 100% satisfied with how lintian reacted to the .desktop, but it validated...
<persia> ScottK: If lintian and desktop-file-validate don't agree, there's a bug somewhere.
<ScottK> persia: My changes for Kubuntu integration have only been tested on Kubuntu, so it'd be good to make sure I didn't break Gnome in the process.
<StevenK> So I think I might update libfwbuilder and fwbuilder since we've jumped
<StevenK> persia: Sound like a plan?
 * ScottK bows in the direction of the great persia to provide clarity on the .desktop confusion.
<persia> StevenK: I generally believe upstream is likely to do the right thing :)
 * StevenK waits for SourceForget
<Jazzva> When submitting a patch to Debian BTS should I skip the new changelog entry?
<persia> Jazzva: Yes.
<Jazzva> thanks
<persia> Jazzva: Even more so, if the package contains a patch system, consider just submitting the patch from debian/patches, rather than a debdiff.
 * StevenK sighs.
<StevenK> *Fracking* DBS
<Jazzva> nope, it doesn't... I'll submit the debdiff... It's small :).
<persia> ScottK: The .desktop file in the binary looks nothing like the .desktop file in debian/.  debian/disk-manager.desktop should be dropped, and ./data/disk-manager.desktop.in.in updated to have the desired information.  As-is, the binary .desktop doesn't validate, won't appear in the menu, and has a duplicated key.
<ScottK> Ah ha.
<ScottK> Thanks.  I totally missed there was un upstream .desktop.
<ScottK> persia: I'll work on that and upload again.
<persia> ScottK: The most critical issue is really the lack of a Main Category, telling the menu system which is the correct sub-menu in which to display the entry.
<ScottK> OK.  Time for me to learn about .desktop files.
<persia> ScottK: Also, please add a menu file so the package is useful for fluxbox users.
<ScottK> persia: Any chance you'd help me with that.  I've never made one before.
<persia> The menu file?  Sure.  What kind of help do you want?  Pointers to docs?  A sample?  One I wrote?
<LaserJock> a sample and what category to use is usually enough it think isn't it?
<LaserJock> they're pretty easy
<ScottK> persia: I'll start the bidding at do it for me.
<LaserJock> lol
<persia> ScottK: OK.  Price for that is 3 REVU or UUS reviews.
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> persia: How about 1 merge, 1 sync request, and one review?
<persia> ScottK: If one of the merges or sync requests is lintian.
<ScottK> persia: OK.  As long as it still counts if I give it a good honest try and can't do it.
<persia> ScottK: Fair enough.
<persia> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2571/
<ScottK> persia: And then that goes in as debian/disk-manager.menu?
<persia> ScottK: Given your packaging, I'd just call it debian/menu
<persia> CDBS should stick it in the right place (/usr/share/menu)
<ScottK> persia: OK.  THanks
<persia> ScottK: Also, Please don't install with both debian/docs and dh_installchangelogs.  One is sufficient.  Drop ChangeLog from docs, and s/NEWS/ChangeLog/ in rules.
<ScottK> persia: OK.  I'll look into it.
<StevenK> Right. ChangeLog isn't documentation
<ScottK> RIght, well I turned the knob I had handy.
<persia> ScottK Understood.  That's the point of peer review :)
<ScottK2> Of course
<persia> pochu: Feel free to snipe the wxwidgets update: it's not moving very quickly.
<LaserJock> soo.... how are SRUs getting processed these day?
<persia> LaserJock: Well, you could follow the old rules, but those are deprecated.  The new rules don't work until we have at least one appointee for ~motu-sru.  If it's important, do it the old way (upload to -proposed with a TEST CASE in the bug)
<ScottK> LaserJock: The same old way I'd say.
<LucidFox> Should new packages now have Standards-Version: 3.7.3?
<persia> LucidFox: If they comply with 3.7.3, sure.
<LaserJock> I've never quite been happy with that
<LaserJock> people just seem to trivially set Standards-Version
<persia> LaserJock: Err.  Which "that"?
<LaserJock> but it's kinda difficult to determine if you're in compliance
<LaserJock> persia: I guess how we set Standards-Version
<LaserJock> it would be good if there was a script that could check
<LaserJock> at least most of the stuff
<persia> LaserJock: Why?  Read the policy, set the appropriate version.  Ideally, push to the newer version and fix stuff.  3.7.2 -> 3.7.3 is mostly about the new menu stuff, and some bugfixes.
<ScottK> LaserJock: That's what linitian is supposed to do.
<persia> LaserJock: linda and lintian are designed for that.
<LaserJock> ah, well that is nice
<LaserJock> in the past I've dredged through the debian-policy changelog
<ScottK> LaserJock: I suspect that's why persia wants me to merge lintian
<LaserJock> and it's not exactly fun if you aren't the maintainer
<ember> Is there any policy to follow about adding LP integration to a packge?
<ember> *package.
<LaserJock> ScottK: are you a core dev?
<LaserJock> ember: what do you mean LP integration?
<ScottK> LaserJock: No.
<ScottK> So at best I'll have something that needs to be sponsored.
<persia> ScottK: You're suspicion is correct.  Getting a sponsor oughtn't be hard.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I can sponsor it if you like, if I'm around
<LaserJock> I've done a lintian patch and merge before so I don't mind doing it
<ScottK> LaserJock: That'd be great.  I've never touched it before, so ...
<persia> Hmmm..  Maybe it's not a sync.  Be nice to have an Ubuntu-equivalent check for Debian 356051
<ubotu> Debian bug 356051 in lintian "lintian: Add a warning if the Initial Release of a package does not have an ITP." [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/356051
<ember> LaserJock: launchpad-integration
<LaserJock> ember: I don't know if this is the place to ask about that unfortunately, I don't think we use it in Universe
<LaserJock> persia: last time I looked there was a lot of Ubuntu stuff left in lintian
<Nafallo> I use it in gajim ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: Then you haven't looked at the changelog for 1.23.39 :)
 * ScottK is seriously hoping for a sync.
<ScottK> (Having looked at the changelog)
<LaserJock> persia: oh, that is nice indeed
<LaserJock> wow, something I did actually made it into Debian :-)
<nenolod> Hobbsee, hmm. strangeness. on my package maintainance report in launchpad it reports 0.3.13-1 and build failures due to missing depends :D
<nenolod> LaserJock, congrats (!)
<ScottK> Heya stratus.  Persia found some stuff that I'd missed, so I'm working on disk-menu some more.
<StevenK> Geeez
 * StevenK comes back from rushing the car under cover
<StevenK> It's just starting hailing heavily here
<Hobbsee> nenolod: it does.  but, it won't autosync from debian, if tha'ts the latest version in debian
<StevenK> Hailstones as big as marbles :-/
<nenolod> Hobbsee, 0.3.14-1 is the latest in debian. :P
<nenolod> ah.
<nenolod> now it's reporting 0.3.14-1. wtf :D
 * nenolod wonders if launchpad is on craq
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> "Remove the unused Standards-Version header" what does that mean?
<persia> LaserJock: Standards-Version is not required in .changes (I think)
<LaserJock> ah
<stratus> ScottK: about the current or last upload?
<ScottK> The current.
<stratus> ScottK: btw, hey ;)
<ScottK> stratus: Would you mind getting the latest package from revu and then taking a stab at it.
<ScottK> Hey.
<stratus> ScottK: let me see...
<ScottK> stratus: I added persia's comments to the revu page.  The last be about putting ChangeLog in docs was my mistake.
<stratus> ScottK: oh ok, got lost on that bit.
<ScottK> Well that was my attempt to fix it and it appears it didn't work so well.
<stratus> ScottK: Let me prepare a build setup on this hardy, so I won't screw up on these minor bits anymore. :)
<ScottK> Over to you ...
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> stratus: He also asked to have a menu file added for fluxbox users and created it http://paste.ubuntu.com/2571/
 * persia notes that menu files are also appreciated if the package will be submitted to Debian
<stratus> ScottK: cool, I'll push it in
<stratus> persia: sure, but I was going to diverge on that, let it be -1 and wait for a sync. I can upload to Debian, btw but not here in US.
<persia> stratus: Makes sense.  It's certainly more critical for Debian :)
<stratus> persia: absolutely
<StevenK> Ooof
<StevenK> I think the hailstorm has moved on
<stratus> thanks anyway, if we've it let's put it there now.
<Hobbsee>   yes, it's coming towards us.
<nenolod> Debian Standards-Version is now at 3.7.3.
<nenolod> it'd be nice of lintian would stop nagging about a new standards-version being used.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I notice that you touched lintian last.  Mind me taking a whack at it?
<nenolod> just you know, a wishlist, if anyone is backporting to gutsy
<ScottK> nenolod: That's why I'm looking at lintian right now.
<nenolod> ;)
<nenolod> ScottK, you are an hero. :P
<ScottK> nenolod: Not yet I'm not.
<nenolod> you soon will be one hopefully ;)
 * StevenK idly wonders if there a way to update the timestamp using dch
<crimsun> with -e ?
<StevenK> Well, dch -r does so, but I don't want to be left in an editor
<StevenK> Bloody DBS
<StevenK> Have to manually set the version in the debian/rules file, grumble, grumble
<persia> StevenK: Can't you set it with dpkg-parsechangelog ?
<StevenK> persia: Probably, but the less I touch of this DBS-infested package, the better
<persia> StevenK: Once your name is in the changelog...
 * StevenK goes back to trying to figure out how to out-smart dch
<persia> StevenK: `dch -r "Update Timestamp"`
<StevenK> I don't want to add a new entry, I just want it to update the timestamp and drop me back to the shell
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  That's harder then.
<StevenK> Right
<persia> Actually, when testing, I don't see "update timestamp" in the changelog I just mangled.
<persia> StevenK: Best I can see, dch -r with an argument ignores the argument (which may be a bug)
<StevenK> But works for me
 * persia notes that this is an excellent example of why most SRUs should be bug-for-bug compatible with previous release revisions
<LaserJock> persia: ?
 * ScottK enjoys the irony of running lintian on lintian.
<LaserJock> heh
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> ScottK: use linda so it's less incestuous
<persia> LaserJock: `dch -r` fails to add a changelog entry when called with an argument, which doesn't match the documentation.  This is a good thing for StevenK under current usage, and not actually harmful for the majority of users, so such behaviour should be kept unless there is a change upstream.
<ScottK> So I file the sync bug and now he leaves.
 * Nafallo ponders
<ScottK> Heya LaserJock.  It looks like lintian is a sync now.  Please have a look at Bug #175036 and ack it to the archive if you agree.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175036 in lintian "Please sync lintian (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175036
<LaserJock> ScottK: looking
<LaserJock> that's one heck of a changelog
<ScottK> LaserJock: It is.  In addition to reviewing the entire .diff between the two releases, I also did some test runs against debian and ubuntu packages to see if the ubuntu specific distro name tests were working.
<LaserJock> excellent
 * persia notes that Ubuntu linda is already mostly 3.7.3 compliant, so with this sync we should enter the new era
<ScottK> persia: lintian sync done.  dkim-milter merged.  Now for a REVU and we're even.
<persia> ScottK: Thank you :)
<LaserJock> ScottK: are you wanting to sync 1.23.39 or 1.23.40?
<ScottK> Just for completeness I also invalid'ed the pending merge bug for an older version of lintian
<ScottK> LaserJock: 39
<ScottK> Urgh.
<persia> -40?
<LaserJock> ScottK: .40 exists
<StevenK> .40 is only like 2 bugfixes, if I recall
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> a brown paper bag release
<StevenK> Russ is being terribly efficent and making me look bad
<ScottK> LaserJock: Neither MoM nor DaD know about 40.
 * persia 's sid also doesn't know about .40, but p.qa.d.o does.
<LaserJock> ScottK: tsk tsk, relying on MoM and DaD ;-)
<ScottK> Neither does p.d.o
<persia> .40 would be good: 454941 sounds unfortunate
<LaserJock> looks like it
<ScottK> Agreed.  .39/.40 wouldn't affect if it's a sync or a merge.
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> how long do you think it'll take to get .40 downloadable?
<ScottK> I grabbed it from incoming.
<LaserJock> ah
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> can vim fqdn:path/to/file work? ;-)
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> or rather, I think you might have to do it from within vim
<ScottK> LaserJock: .40 seems to work OK too.
<LaserJock> but I read that it'll go over ssh, etc.
<Nafallo> hmm. kinky :-)
<LaserJock> ScottK: gonna fix the bug report?
<ScottK> Nafallo: It works
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'll say I'll take 39 or 40 since if 40 isn't available yet, we'll get it on autosync.
<StevenK> -archive will sync the latest source available, which will more than likely be .40
<persia> ScottK: If we get 39, we'll get lots of spurious errors.  Why not just update the bug: .40 will be in by the time the archive-admins look at it on Monday.
<Nafallo> oh.
<Nafallo> I had to use proper stuff :-)
<StevenK> The sync request is just a confirmation of "These are the Ubuntu changes, I have checked that they can be dropped, do it!"
<Nafallo> sftp://fqdn/path/to/file
<persia> StevenK: In that case, why do we mention the Debian version in every bug?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Updated.
<StevenK> persia: Because that's the one you've checked against -- and it's incredibly unlikely that the Ubuntu changes will get dropped by Debian in the very next version
<ScottK2> Nafallo: vim http://incoming.debian.org/lintian_1.23.40_i386.changes also works
<Nafallo> yea. proper URLs :-)
<LaserJock> ScottK2: cool
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  Makes sense.
<Nafallo> rather then fqdn:path :-)
<LucidFox> What are .changes files for, anyway?
<persia> LucidFox: They specify the bugs closed, all changes since the last upload (sometimes multiple revisions), the checksums of all the package sections, and contain the signature of the uploader.  This is parsed to verify that someone authorised truly wished to make the upload, and used to update tracking systems.
<LucidFox> Ack.
<LaserJock> ScottK: is it proper to unsub -sponsors after acking?
<persia> LaserJock: That's what we do in universe.  The procedure for main remains undocumented.
<LaserJock> bah, I'm not a member of -sponsors, I'll have to just leave it
<LaserJock> I wonder if there's much difference between running Firefox and epiphany in KDE
<ScottK> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=firmware-addon-dell reviewed.  I think I need to get to bed.
<persia> ScottK: Sleep well, and thanks again: the "price" was more of a joke, but you've hit it perfectly in short order.
<LucidFox> LaserJock> Difference in what sense?
<ScottK> persia: Sure.  I'll confess now that I was already doing the merge when you named your price ;-)
<LaserJock> LucidFox: as in does epiphany pull in a lot of gnome libs that would counteract the savings of using epiphany
<ScottK> LaserJock: I would encourage you to try using Konqueror.  I find I use it more and more as I get used to it.
<LaserJock> hmm, and I can't find a kmail menu entry
<ScottK> LaserJock: There's a big icon just to the right of the K menu button.  It's in Kontact.  We don't do Kmail separately in Kubuntu.
<LucidFox> Wait, I use just Kmail.
<ScottK> LucidFox: Yes, but by default there's no icon for it.
<LucidFox> (I have Kontact uninstalled, though.)
<LucidFox> ah
<pwnguin> what's the best way to publish packages for something usable but under rapid development currently?
<pwnguin> Ubuntu already publishes deluge, but it's severely out of date devs say
<pwnguin> they currently host their own packages for ubuntu
<pwnguin> is this something -backports would handle?
<RAOF> pwnguin: Sounds like the "upstream pass" idea that was kinda threshed out beryltime
<persia> pwnguin: Yes.  Someone would track Deluge development, and pick a good target upstream version during the 17 weeks opf
<pwnguin> opf?
<persia> s/opf/of open archives.  This version could be backported, and the default version for the next release would be the selected version.  Bugfixes would be backported to this selected version for the next 7 weeks, with only truly critical fixes being applied for beta & RC freezes/ (backpace & enter are too close)
<pwnguin> so in no case is one simply bringing in new code to an old release
<pwnguin> aside from bugfixes
<persia> pwnguin: Right, although new code present in the current development environment may be backported, which handles 34 weeks of the year.  The other 18 are harder to handle.
<pwnguin> im not as worried about development version as much as what happens after release
<persia> pwnguin: The two are tied directly.  Backports may only be performed on packages in the development release (or in special cases, packages from previous releases to even earlier releases).  Therefore, the development release needs to track upstream fairly closely for it to be backportable.
<pwnguin> in the case of deluge, ive been told that software from august is "ancient". backportability of upstream patches may not be simple =/
<pwnguin> in any case, i dont think i can nessecarily do it, and i doubt the developers have the willpower to put up with ubuntu qa processes =(
<RAOF> It may be "ancient", but it works (in the most part).
<pwnguin> yea. aside from some strange cpu consumption related dht
<RAOF> So, for fun new features, there's backports.
<pwnguin> what?
<persia> pwnguin: Just to make sure I'm clear, if the new upstream goes into hardy, the new upstream can go into gutsy-backports, just not into gutsy.  If there is a specific bug for which a patch can be extracted that meets the SRU criteria, that's different.
<pwnguin> which is fine
<pwnguin> deluge is currently on par in hardy with their own publishing
<persia> !backports
<ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<persia> pwnguin: There's info there that talks about where to file the bug to get that into gutsy-backports.  Saves upstream publishing their own.
<pwnguin> i sorta imagined backports required some developer effort to verify and cherry pick or something
<persia> pwnguin: My understanding is that it requires 1) no reverse dependencies, 2) a build log showing it builds in the previous release, 3) a couple testers reporting that it works in the previous release, and 4) approval from the backports team.  Usually pretty simple (but needs more testers).
<pwnguin> apparently i misread a few statements with a negative where not was present
<Gunner_Sr> greetings, all. what is the best way to look at a segmentation fault?
 * Gunner_Sr never mind, I will just gdb it. :-)
<RAOF_> Gunner_Sr: That *is* the easiest way to look at a segfault :)
<Gunner_Sr> yep, the joys of getting use to linux world :-)
<Gunner_Sr> RAOF_: seems I got a great bug to fix, I have created another one that I need to fix first :-)
<RAOF_> Always the way :)
<Gunner_Sr> RAOF_: wow, that's wierd. If I try and execute the binary is fails with a segmentation fault, execute it with valgrind and works fine???
<RAOF_> Ah, the joys of instrumentation.
<Gunner_Sr> can anyone help me with this problem - 'If I try and execute the binary is fails with a segmentation fault, execute it with valgrind and works fine?'
<RAOF_> Gunner_Sr: That's (quite obviously) not impossible, but it *does* make it somewhat harder to fix.
<RAOF_> Does it segfault under gdb?
<Gunner_Sr> RAOF_: yes
<RAOF_> Well, that's an *excellent* first step.  Where does it segfault?
<RAOF_> You probably want to install the relevant -dbgsym packgages and get it to segfault under gdb
<Gunner_Sr> it appears that address is out of bounds for mapping a window
<Gunner_Sr> RAOF_: okay, will do that.
<RAOF_> That sounds like Compiz?
<Gunner_Sr> humm, so how do I turn it off to check?
<RAOF_> Oh, the segfault isn't in compiz?
<Gunner_Sr> no, it is a game xgalaga..
<RAOF_> Sorry, compiz is just my natural assumption for "crash" + "window" :)
<Gunner_Sr> np
<RAOF_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace if you haven't seen it already
<Gunner_Sr> RAOF_: okay, I will look into it. Thanks.
<Gunner_Sr> RAOF_: I have the offending line now. it appears that the window is being mapped to an invalid address.
<LordKow> has anyone else had issues with pulseaudio recently? i feel like its just me
 * StevenK grumbles at bug 159307
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159307 in openh323 "undefined reference to `PSafeObject::PSafeObject()'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159307
<RAOF_> StevenK: It's missing a link to a constructor?  Also what crazy man exports C++ as the ABI?
<StevenK> RAOF_: Yeah, well, who knows. It *is* VoIP.
 * RAOF_ wonders idly why iwl3945 suddenly wants to drop out after 30min or so.
<slicer> I forgot; how do you view the source of a package using launchpad?
<slicer> nm
<pwnguin> RAOF_: which kernel?
<RAOF_> 2.6.22
<RAOF_> pwnguin: I tend to switch to the next kernel only when the kernel team feel that making it default in linux-meta is a good idea :)
<pwnguin> i see
<pwnguin> i dont think ive ever noticed before
<pwnguin> but id really like to get sdcard working this time around
<RainCT> what's the way to fix bugs like bug #92939? just let the packages conflict?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 92939 in libowfat "[can-not-install] file overwrite error" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92939
<LucidFox> When do I need to call dh_icons?
<persia> RainCT: Either conflict, or move the files to not be the same.
<persia> LucidFox: Whenever you install icons in icon cache directories.
<persia> RainCT: Was it you who tried to package ninvaders for gutsy?
<RainCT> persia: no
<persia> RainCT: Sorry then.  Thanks.
<RainCT> np
 * Gunner_Sr goodnight all.
<Gunner_Sr> Sick of staring at gdb ;-)
<oly_> hi, when i am building my package using dpkg-buildpackage, it generates a tar.gz file with everything in, but none of the files make it to the .deb file the rues file is pasted here http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2573/
<persia> oly_: What command line are you using with dpkg-buildpackage?
<oly_> if anyone can look and figure out anything it would be appreciated
<oly_> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<oly_> when inside the extracted folder
<persia> oly_: And there's neither a .deb nor an error?
<oly_> there is a deb, no error but the deb does not conain the files of the program it only contains the debian files
<persia> oly_: I suspect that "$(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/usm-core-0.2 install" isn't quite doing what you want then.  Try without the "-0.2".
<oly_> i actually added that to see if that fixed it
<persia> oly_: I recommend looking carefully at your build log to see where the files are being installed, and from where the files are being pulled by dh_builddeb.  I suspect there is a disconnect there.
<oly_> okay, where does the build log get put
<oly_> dont think i have seen that yet
<persia> oly_: Usually in a .build file in the same directory as the .deb.
<persia> If it's not there, maybe try with debuild instead of dpkg-buildpackage
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | It's REVU day!  Packagers, please update your REVU submissions, and request review.  Reviewers, visit http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/ for the current TODO list (updated in r
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | It's REVU day!  Packagers, please update your REVU submissions, and request review.  Reviewers, visit http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/ for the current TODO list
<persia> It's REVU Day Again.  There's 20 candidates up for review, 3 of which have an advocate, so the reviewers have a bit to do.  The Needs Work queue is about twice that long, so new uploads are encouraged.  Let's get 10 packages uploaded today!
<oly_> if i can make my package i will upload it :)
<oly_> found that .build file looking at it now
<Hobbsee> i't so isn't revu day.
 * Hobbsee ignores the topic
<persia> Hobbsee: It is REVU day.  You don't get to play.  Nyah-Nyah.
<Hobbsee> woot!
<persia> Hobbsee: Do you do sync request approvals yet?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> probably won't for months
<slicer> Wohoo! I got an advocate for my package :)
<persia> slicer: If you can fix the bugs, and upload again, that'd be good too :)
<slicer> persia: Ah. It crashed gnome-panel?
<persia> slicer: Yep.
<slicer> persia: *boggles* How is that possible? murmur has no GUI components at all.
 * RainCT is currently working on a package upgrade
<persia> slicer: No idea: didn't really make sense to me, but I typed dpkg -i ... and it reloaded the panel.
<slicer> persia: I'll see if debhelper does anything fancy to it.
<persia> slicer: That might be it.  Maybe something with the services entries?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<persia> sistpoty: Good morning.  Happy REVU Day!
<sistpoty> hi persia
<sistpoty> oh it's revu day today?
<persia> Well, it's Monday somewhere...
<sistpoty> hehe... still sunday for me :)
<StevenK> It's only just ticked over to Monday in .nz
 * persia refuses to be bound by locality
 * sistpoty wonders if he should implement the revu contributors spec right now
<LucidFox> Speaking of REVU... what's the point of this? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=psi
<persia> LucidFox: How do you mean?
<LucidFox> Well, 0.11-3 is in the archive, so it's probably redundant to upload the same upstream release to REVU
<persia> sistpoty: How does REVU check to see if packages are in the archive?  Shouldn't that be sorted differently?
<persia> Err.  sistpoty: Nevermind.  I'm blind.
<persia> LucidFox: Those packages mostly get ignored, but some people find REVU a convenient dget-compatible place to upload new revisions.
<sistpoty> persia: iirc it rebuilds its database of stuff in the archive once a day. on a upload with a not yet known package, it checks the database and marks it as such (imo not at subsequent uploads, which is a bug)
<slicer> Our minimum target for IA32 is i586, right? Is that with or without MMX?
<persia> sistpoty: Ah.  It's the "not at subsequent uploads" part that was confusing me.  Thanks.
<persia> slicer: Best to check for MMX at runtime.
<slicer> Bah, it makes the code ugly. Oh well.
<sistpoty> slicer: if it really makes a huge performance difference, you could build two binary packages (-386 and -686)... but usually there's no such big difference unless you do massive FPU stuff
<persia> slicer: There are quite a few packages that check at compile time, but they tend to generate an MMX bug eventually.  Depends on what you're willing to support.
<slicer> sistpoty: MMX gives me ~10-20%. Enabling SSE doubles performance.
<slicer> It's not critical, but I hate wasting CPU cycles. Anyway, I'll stick to the plain-FPU version for now.
<sistpoty> slicer: what's the application? does it make sense to run it on non-mmx boxes at all? (imo mythtv used to just enable mmx, because it wouldn't work properly on non-mmx boxes anyways)
<slicer> sistpoty: Mumble, VoIP application. .. Er. Hm. Last non-MMX pentium was ... 90Mhz, right? I'll go check if it's feasible.
<imbrandon> you need to rember that not everything is x86 also
<slicer> It works on PPC :)
<imbrandon> ppc,sparc,mips,arm, none have mmx
<slicer> But a modern PPC has slightly more CPU power than a old pentium.
<LucidFox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=xulrunner-1.9 - the uploader requests this to be nuked
<sistpoty> LucidFox: done
<imbrandon> slicer: i would watch making assumptions for your users though, if you do enable stuff like that please build both
<LucidFox> imbrandon, please check PM on IRC
<persia> slicer: Yes, but my PPC 233 doesn't
<bobbo> Can anyone in here sync my GPG key with REVU?
<imbrandon> LucidFox: i got it
<persia> bobbo: Have you joined the LP group?
<bobbo> yeah
<persia> bobbo: OK.  I'll sync the keys.  Takes about half an hour or so
<bobbo> ok, thanks persia
<slicer> Gah, the last non-MMX pentium was the P54CS@200Mhz. Which, in theory, is enough. So no MMX for now.
<persia> imbrandon: Isn't that the processor you use?
<imbrandon> persia: haha yea, iths the one i'm on now :)
<imbrandon> its*
<sistpoty> poor imbrandon
<imbrandon> slicer: thats my main machine :)
<persia> slicer: See.  People still use those :)
<jeromeg> persia: could you please reviw this one ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=gnome-launch-box
<slicer> imbrandon: You do realize most cellphones have more CPU power? ;)
<persia> jeromeg: Why me?
<jeromeg> jeromeg: because you're nice :)
<imbrandon> slicer: and? it lets me get dev work done , lots better than being offline fo months :)
<jeromeg> persia: I'm not the uploader, but this is an upgrade, and the buy also maintains it into debian
<persia> jeromeg: I'll recommend a general advertisement.  I'm one of the more picky reviewers: I think I've advocated 3 things since hardy opened.
<slicer> imbrandon: But.. It will take you months to compile a single package ;)
<jeromeg> persia: it's not yet in debian
<persia> jeromeg: An update?  Why is it on REVU?
<jeromeg> persia: it shouldn't ?
<jeromeg> persia: revu is only for new packages ?
<slicer> persia: That actually makes you more desirable as a reviewer. When you sign off on things, the uploader feels it's really ready :)
<imbrandon> slicer: not really, i maintain quite a few packages
<persia> jeromeg: Generally a patch submitted to the sponsors queue is better for upgrades.  REVU is for new packages.  Upgrades can go there, but they usually get ignored.
<jeromeg> persia: yep i see that
<jeromeg> persia : even with new upstream tarball ?
<persia> jeromeg: Yep.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<bobbo> persia: I made a patch to fix a bug in a package that hadnt been updated since Breezy and became the new maintainer (This is my first package) Should this go in REVU?
<persia> jeromeg: Just make sure that either the watch file works or there is a working get-orig-source rule.
<persia> bobbo: No need.  Best to just send a patch to the sponsors queue.  That way you don't have to wait for Mondays, and the responses will be tracked better.
<jeromeg> persia: the watch file is introduced with this new version
<persia> jeromeg: Excellent.
<bobbo> persia: where is the sponsors queue found?
<jeromeg> persia: so where is the guy supposed to put everything, on LP ?
<persia> bobbo: See the MOTU/Contributing link for information on preparing the diff and submitting to the queue.
<bobbo> thanks persia
<persia> jeromeg: We only need the interdiff.
<jeromeg> persia: ok i'll mail this to the maintainer before he gets desesperated !
<persia> jeromeg: Thanks.  REVU can be frustrating sometimes.
<jeromeg> persia: :)
<persia> So.  Who has a new package on REVU and wishes a REVU?  Any advertisements?
<jeromeg> persia: the same guy has http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=awn-extras-applets
<jeromeg> persia: the maintains the awn-core
<persia> bobbo: keyring sync complete
<bobbo> thanks persia
<jeromeg> got to go
<jeromeg> bye all
<LucidFox> persia> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=inkblot
<LucidFox> (new)
<LucidFox> also updated paclages: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=smplayer
<persia> LucidFox: A general advertisement would be much better, especially now as the last pointed at me is still building.  For the updated packages, please submit a diff in a bug to the sponsors queue.
<DaveMorris> apachelogger_: re your comment for cpptest, with libcpptest-dev conflicting with libcpptest-dev.   This is to stop people accidentally upgrading the dev packages through system upgrades which could break the build environment, it can still be upgrade but requires the package to be removed 1st.  How come this is a bad idea?
<persia> LucidFox: I've just taken a look at inkblot.  Nice job.  I don't have the hardware to test, and only have minor comments.  Would you prefer a comment for a new upload, or me to leave it for someone who can test?
<persia> DaveMorris: You have a package that conflicts with itself?
<DaveMorris> yeah
<DaveMorris> the -dev package of a lib
<persia> DaveMorris: Don't do that.  It makes it hard to install & upgrade.  For a stable release, the ABI will be stable, so there's no danger of someone having a conflict from an upgrade.  For a release under development, there's no promise of stability, so there's no point.
<DaveMorris> ABI?
<persia> Application Binary Interface
<RainCT> u-u-s can be unsubscribed from bug #66174
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 66174 in showfsck "Man page is incorrect" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66174
<persia> RainCT: Done.
<persia> RainCT: Thanks for helping clear the queue.
<bobbo> RainCT: Thats the bug im working on. Once I fix the stuff in your comment what should i do to get it included?
<RainCT> np, it's fun and I might even learn something new on the way :)
<persia> RainCT: Just be prepared for complaints if you get it wrong :)
<RainCT> heh
 * Hobbsee must have some outstanding bugs, too
<RainCT> bobbo: subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors again and/or announce it here :)
<bobbo> ok thanks, working on it now
<Hobbsee> oh, sigh, this is not hardy.
<RainCT> bug 175018 has no interdiff (but .dsc, .orig and .diff instead), so I guess it can be unsubscribed too..
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175018 in strongswan "strongswan: New upstream release 4.1.9" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175018
<persia> RainCT: No.  We can use that: it is just a waste of LP archive space.
 * Hobbsee bumps a package out of the new queue.  hurrah!
<bobbo> RainCT: Thats the debdiff fixed for bug #66174
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 66174 in showfsck "Man page is incorrect" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66174
 * RainCT looks
<rexbron> Hi, What is the appropreate size for an icon to go with a .desktop? Currently upstream ships an svg only.
<Amaranth> rexbron: you should have 16, 22/24, 32, 48, and scalable (svg)
<persia> rexbron: I like 32x32 XPM + 48x48 - 128x128 PNG (anywhere in the range).  Also, if there is an SVG, most newer WMs can display it.
<Amaranth> but if you only have svg that's the best of the bunch to only have
<persia> Amaranth: All of those?  Doesn't the WM typically auto-scale?
<Amaranth> persia: Not well
<persia> Amaranth: Ah.  True.
<rexbron> but which icon size/format should I use in the .desktop? :P
<Amaranth> rexbron: none
<persia> rexbron: None.  Just use the bare icon name.
<Amaranth> rexbron: should just be Icon=foo
<Amaranth> then the icon theme machinery in your DE/WM will find the appropriate icon based on the size requested and the theme being used
<rexbron> persia: This is in relation to genpo, I got one of the guys in #ubuntustudio to do an icon up
<persia> (where foo.xpm is in /usr/share/pixmaps, lots of different foo.png files are in the specific size directories, and foo.svg is in the scalable icon directory)
<Amaranth> eh, xpm
<persia> Amaranth: Required to support menu files, which are required to support fluxbox.
<Amaranth> People use that? :P
<rexbron> would someone be able to link me to the reference docs?
<rexbron> Amaranth: Fluxbuntu ftw
<Amaranth> I don't think any GNOME app ships an xpm unless they're old enough to have been around when xpm was the thing to use
<persia> Amaranth: Lots of people.  It's our 5th most popular WM
<persia> Amaranth: For those, Debian usually ships an XPM (although it's not always included in Ubuntu)
 * rexbron noticed that a _huge_ amount of .desktop files and icons are shipped in /usr/share/applications and /usr/share/app-install/desktop and icons ...
<rexbron> but the packages are not installed
<persia> rexbron: I think http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-theme-spec/latest/ar01s07.html is the relevant documentation
<persia> rexbron: /usr/share/app-install is special, and includes slightly mangled versions of all .desktop files available in Ubuntu + a bunch of local ones where a normal .desktop file isn't appropriate.
<slicer> Can you get pdebuild to run lintian and linda appropriate to the distribution it's compiling for, same as debuild does?
<rexbron> alright
<rexbron> hm
<rexbron> I am now rather confused as to best practices
<persia> slicer: The code isn't shared much, so you likely have to change pdebuild (a patch for that would be welcome)
<Hobbsee> pbuilder, but not pdebuild
<Hobbsee> see pbuilder hooks
<Hobbsee> persia: ???
<persia> Hobbsee: To run lintian & linda for the target distribution rather than the local distribution?
<Hobbsee> oh, i'm not sure of which version of linda/lintian it uses
<Hobbsee> install the newer lintian/linda on the old system?
<persia> Hobbsee: I believe it's the version installed on the host system, rather than one in the chroot.
<Hobbsee> persia: quite likely.
<persia> slicer: That's the standard practice: use the backported lintian & linda.
<Hobbsee> persia: i thought you were saying that pbuilder did not have the capacity to run lintian/linda as hooks.
<slicer> It is the one on the host, and the host doesn't have 3.7.3 standards etc etc.
<persia> Hobbsee: No, just not to differentiate based on the build target.
<Hobbsee> persia: true
<persia> slicer: For that, you'll need to backport the Debian lintian manually (sync is pending, and backport will follow).  There's no 3.7.3 linda yet, but hardy is pretty close.
 * persia has discovered a new load-testing method: simultaneously run linda & dpkg-source -x on seamonkey.
<StevenK> Well, all Linda will do is add a bunch of I/O load
 * StevenK has an evil plan to drop Linda's I/O wait
<StevenK> But, it requires me being motivated to work on Linda
<persia> StevenK: Yes.  It's the combined IO load of linda + dpkg-source -x on a 50MB package that does it.
<persia> Regarding linda, what would be a good source of motivation?  Does the new policy help?
<StevenK> You know, I've been trying to answer that question in my head for months.
<persia> heh.
<StevenK> Someone else taking an interest and submitting patches might help. *subtle hint*
<persia> Could I convince you that tar-in-tar is annoying, and the test directories should be unrolled in the source to make patching easier?
<StevenK> The test directories? You mean the labs?
<persia> Sounds fine.  There's still one patch in BTS not in Ubuntu yet, and a couple other bugs that seem trivial.  I'll prep a candidate over the next week.
<persia> Yes.  The labs.
<StevenK> My evil plan is for labs to not exist
<persia> My last linda diff was painful, as I needed to update the labs
<persia> How would that work?
 * persia hopes the answer will not be "Don't bother testing"
<StevenK> The components of the .deb are unpacked in memory and I run the equivalent of file over the first 200 bytes of the member to determine what it is and stuff it into a dictionary
<StevenK> For source packages, I'm still thinking about it. It becomes harder for non-native source packages since I have a patch to apply
 * StevenK waits for persia to run screaming
 * persia is only wishing it weren't 10 minutes past bedtime, as reading the source to better understand would help (as would actually knowing python)
<StevenK> Parts of Linda are *messy*
<persia> StevenK: Yes.
<StevenK> And I completly and utterly ignore OO abstraction rules
<persia> Yes
<StevenK> (Oh, I'm really selling it, aren't I?)
<persia> Still, it works, and provides a nice cross-check to lintian, and has a few reasonable requests outstanding.  I'll see what I can close.  Are there any untriaged bugs in the BTS that you don't want fixed?
<StevenK> Personally, I'd rather work on getting Linda to be a speed demon first.
<StevenK> She used to be faster than lintian, too
<persia> StevenK: Hmm.  Optimisation in a language I don't know isn't really my strong point :(
<StevenK> persia: I daresay figuring out how to read files in tarballs using python's objects is 80% of it
<LucidFox> What in inkblot is copyrighted by the X Consortium and the Free Software Foundation?
<persia> Just ripping the files directly, rather than unpacking?  How does one apply diff.gz?
<persia> LucidFox: I forget.  grep is your friend.  I think it was related to translations.
<StevenK> persia: Just grabbing the files into memory, yes. How one applies the diff.gz is an unsolved problem
<persia> That would certainly speed her up a bit (assuming a solution to that problem).  Still, lintian unpacks a lab, and finishes before linda for very huge sources.  Am I correct that linda is unpacking multiple times in a single run?
<persia> (or is it just the unpacks for the internal tarballs?)
 * persia goes off to read source to answer these questions
<StevenK> Linda only unpacks once
<RainCT> if a ubuntuwire guy is arround, what's about adding links to launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<package> in http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php ?
<persia> RainCT: Would the link be from the "Name" field?
<RainCT> persia: yes
<oly_> anyone around who is able to give me a hand, what ever i do i can not figure out what i am doing wrong, and why the files from my program still do not end up in my deb file
<oly_> i was wondering if the program being called usm-core could cause a problem, because it uses a hyphen
<persia> oly_: Are your sources available for download somewhere?
<oly_> i can upload them, what do you need the original tar and the debian folder ?
<oly_> or shall i try using that dput command ?
<RainCT> oly_: upload .dsc, .orig.tar.gz and .diff.gz, or yes, better just use dput
<oly_> okay give me a sec whyile i figure out how to use dput
<persia> oly_: If you've not used dput before, it might be easier to upload using another method the first time.
<oly_> oky
<oly_> dput is the next thing after i can build this package :)
<persia> RainCT: My PHP isn't up to a fix: could you paste a patch against http://paste.ubuntu.com/2578/ ?
<RainCT> persia: sure, one moment
<RainCT> persia: uhm.. is the paste right?     http://paste.ubuntu.com/2578/plain/ there are many cut lines..
<RainCT> like: "Select id,mpop_inst,name,version,bytes,up_version,watch_warn, up_changes from p
<persia> RainCT: Not sure.  I grabbed from my terminal.  Let me put the code somewhere easier...
<RainCT> ah, then the terminal cut it :P
<persia> RainCT: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/no_updated.php.txt
<oly_> http://poke.servebeer.com/debtest/
<oly_> the files are there, sorry for the delay my hosting is not workign so had to find another place to upload
<txwikinger> Does anybody have a reference in how to debug the loading of Modules in perl?
<oly_> so if anyone can take a look and see if they have any better luck building these into a package, if you need any other files let me know
<LucidFox> Reuploaded inkblot
<persia> LucidFox: Looks good.  I won't comment, as I can't test it.  Thanks for the quick turnaround.
 * RainCT suggests some bored sponsor having a look at bug 66174
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 66174 in showfsck "Man page is incorrect" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66174
<persia> Ubulette: I've just commented on seamonkey.  That's a huge amount of work you've done, but there's a bit more to go...
<Ubulette> you mean 1.1.6 or 1.1.7 ? 1.1.6 was indeed huge, a full repackaging in fact
<persia> Ubulette: Most of the work seemed to be for 1.1.6.  My comments were for 1.1.7.
<Ubulette> hmm, ok, most of those comments apply to debian too
<Ubulette> (iceape)
<persia> Ubulette: Yep.  REVU is fairly strict :)
<LucidFox> Speaking of seamonkey, shouldn't iceape now made transitional?
<LucidFox> *be made
<Ubulette> persia, i don't mind as long as it's reasonable ;)
<Ubulette> LucidFox, it is
<persia> bobbo: Looking at the 4th debdiff: there's one bit still needs doing: the version should be 1.3ubuntu1 rather than 1.4.  Other than that, it looks fairly clean.
<persia> Ubulette: You've it hardest, as mozilla is a strange beast to package, and it's not easy to understand the results.  Thanks for trying, and I'm glad to see this here, as I feared your prism experience had frightened you away.
<RainCT> oly_: dget: wget usm-core_0.2.orig.tar.gz http://poke.servebeer.com/debtest/usm-core_0.2.orig.tar.gz failed
<Ubulette> persia, would it be possible to let that release go (for the security fixes), then i work on -0ubuntu2 to fix the rest ?
<Ubulette> persia, i still think it's awfully long and painful to obtain sponsorship.
<oly_> okay will see what i can do RainCT,
<persia> Ubulette: Hmmm..  Last time I ran rmadison, I thought it told me seamonkey was new.  As an update candidate, that's likely good, but I'm not up for reviewing the comparison with 1.1.6 just now.
<Ubulette> i like fixing stuff up to the minute, i just hate to wait in the dark
<RainCT> persia: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47536/plain/   sorry that it took so long, was busy in RL..
<persia> Ubulette: I'd suggest pushing an interdiff in a bug to the sponsors queue: that way you're not waiting for Mondays, will likely get it in faster, and won't have people complaining about every little lintian informational note.
<persia> RainCT: Thanks.
<oly_> try it now,
<Ubulette> persia, i posted that in the bug
<RainCT> oly_: ok, works now
<Ubulette> bug 174739
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174739 in seamonkey "[upgrade] seamonkey 1.1.7" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174739
<oly_> because i have been making so many changes here and there trying to make it work
<persia> Ubulette: Ah.  It seems to have been a slow week for sponsoring.  Feel free to ignore my REVU comments until you have time.
<Ubulette> persia, the md5 stuff is disturbing btw.
<oly_> do not really mind how i get this to work, as long as i can make acceptable packages for ubuntu, all they really need todo is copy the files to relevant location and run the postinst
<persia> Ubulette: Yes, a bit.  That would be a sponsorship blocker too, as I couldn't build it at all.
<oly_> seems a bit complicated just todo that, packaging seems to be aimed at c type code where you use make files, making it more confusing to me :p
<Ubulette> persia, how is that possible? did you regenerate it ?
<persia> Ubulette: Nope.  Just dget followed by sbuild.
<Ubulette> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/2579/
<persia> Ubulette: Strange.  I've not seen a corrupted download in a while.  I'll try again when I'm not about to sleep.
<oly_> RainCT, do you think its worth me trying to use that cdbs for packaging see if i have any better luck
<oly_> or am i just as likely to hit the same problem
 * RainCT is still downloading the source
<oly_> yeah, thats fine just i knwo yesterday you said you use cdbs for python, wondering if it might work better for me i dont really know the difference
<oly_> i just followed a tutorial on making packages
<Ubulette> persia, i just wget the tarball from revu, md5 matches mine.. so it could be on your side :O
<persia> Ubulette: Very likely on my side.
<bobbo> Can a MOTU check my  fix for bug #66174 please?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 66174 in showfsck "Man page is incorrect" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66174
<Ubulette> persia, is XSBC-Original-Maintainer really useful ?
<persia> Ubulette: It's mostly about giving credit to the person in Debian who worked on the package.
<Ubulette> it's not used for anything else ? bots of some kind?
<RainCT> Ubulette: it makes it possible to know who the Debian maintainer is without checking packages.debian.org..
<RainCT> ('apt-cache show' displays it)
<Ubulette> i just ask if it's needed here as i doubt debian will care about seamonkey
<Ubulette> well, i'll add it, hoping it will not create issues
<bluefoxicy> I heard vmware released vmware-tools as open source software or something nutty like that
<RainCT> oly_: strange upstram tarball...
<persia> Ubulette: If you're basing on Debian packaging, it's nice.  If you're not using their packaging, no point.
<bluefoxicy> will Ubuntu 8.08 fully support running as a vmware guest?
<oly_> what do you mean RainCT ?
<bluefoxicy> VMware 2.0 will use VMI, which Linux supports.  Will Ubuntu 8.08 support running in a VMI environment?  :D
<RainCT> oly_: having etc and usr folder.. I had never seen anything like that before xD
<bluefoxicy> Xen doesn't export VMI.  Can we stab the Xen dev team in the face, and then take Xen away from Citrix and fork it and stab Citrix in the face and add VMI support?
<RainCT> oly_: well.. i know what the problem is now
<oly_> well i structured it that way :p
<Ubulette> persia, i've forked at 1.1.4 and almost changed everything. you've read the changelog ;) https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seamonkey/
<RainCT> oly_: you're doing nothing with those files..
 * bluefoxicy idle battery of random questions in the morning.
<oly_> seemed to make sense at the time
<persia> Ubulette: Your call.
<RainCT> oly_: 1. you can remove all makefile bits from debian/rules are there's no makefile there
<oly_> i thought that, thats why they where commented out
<oly_> i will remove all otgether
<RainCT> oly_: 2. put a file called "install" in the debian directory
<RainCT> oly_: and there you have to list what files you want to install and where.. like this http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47537/plain/
<RainCT> oly_: 3. call dh_install in the changelog, in the binary-indep section
<oly_> okay, sounds good, was no mention of an install file in the packaging from scratch doc i was using
<RainCT> oly_: well, as you said that's written for packages with makefile mainly.. :P
<RainCT> oly_: if it's a web application I'm not sure if /usr/share is the right place to put the files
<oly_> the reason i structured the folders like that was because i thought thats how it figured out where to put the files
<RainCT> ah yes, it is
<oly_> okay, its a bit of a tricky one because it runs sub processes as well
<oly_> which run independatly, like for backups
<oly_> okay will try that out
<oly_> can you use * in the install folder or just specify folders ?
<oly_> or do i have to put all files
<RainCT> oly_: *, look at this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47537/plain/
<oly_> yeah i saw just after writting that :p
<oly_> silly me
<RainCT> oly_: the homepage in debian/control should be in the source section
<RainCT> after the "Maintainer:" line for example
<oly_> okay will rearrange that
 * RainCT thinks the description needs some more work, too :P
<RainCT> oly_: tell me if you want me to have a look at it once you get it working
<oly_> okay, will look at that as well
<oly_> yes that woudl be useful, i need to make sure the application actually works and that i included all the correct files
<oly_> yay, i have a 21.1mb deb now instead of a 2.2kb deb now :-D
<oly_> thxs for the help RainCT, will go tidy up and test it now :)
<RainCT> oly_: great :). np
<RainCT> persia: I'm working on your suggestion for what-patch
<RainCT> what do you recommend to get the "packagename_upstream-revision"?
 * dsop is still searching for a second motu to advocate
<persia> RainCT: You may be interested in Debian bug #452215 452220 452221
<ubotu> Debian bug 452215 in lintian "Add a check to make sure the .diff.gz is clean when debian/patches is used" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/452215
<Ubulette> persia: about the unclear X11R5 licence. http://paste.ubuntu.com/2580/   Should I use MIT ?
<jonnymind> hello
<persia> Ubulette: You'd do best to track down the X11R5 sources, and use that license.
<persia> (the person integrating the source should have done that)
<Ubulette> X11R5 is MIT
<jonnymind> I have succeeded in splitting my binary packages as wished. May I kindly ask reviews for needs-packaging bug 174470?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174470 in ubuntu "Package for the Falcon Programming Language" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174470
<jonnymind> Cute. I did that?
<Ubulette> you did
<jonnymind> :-)
<Ubulette> debian bug 191717
<ubotu> Debian bug 191717 in automake1.6 "automake1.6: install-sh licensing nightmare?" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/191717
<RainCT> persia: nice, but there's no patch there
<persia> RainCT: Yes :(
<RainCT> and    lsdiff -z ../$(basename `pwd` | sed s/-/_/)-*.diff.gz    isn't definitely the best option
<bluefoxicy> ... apport is reporting slocate failed to upgrade (it succeeded, it just bitched)
<bluefoxicy> specifically, apport is sending the same bug report like 15 times
 * RainCT is looking at that parsechangelog thing
<RainCT> dpkg-parsechangelog | grep "$(basename `pwd` | cut -d "-" -f 1) ("       isn't very convincing neither..
<effie_jayx> what is the rationale for not including any php4 in gutsy?
<RainCT> effie_jayx: it won't be supported anymore soon
<RainCT> (if they haven't dropped support for it already)
<RainCT> (not sure about the exact date..)
<effie_jayx> RainCT,  many apps still depend on php4
<Ubulette> persia, could you be more specific about point 11 and 14 for seamonkey ?
<RainCT> effie_jayx: then it's upstreams problem to fix them, php4 is dead
<effie_jayx> RainCT,  I see...
<RainCT> effie_jayx: hosting providers are also switching to php5 now (mine allows to use both since over 6 months already, configuring it with a .htaccess)
<RainCT> (but they will drop php4 soon)
<txwikinger> Bug #175106 is reade for sponsoring if someone like to do it :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175106 in freedict "Spelling mistake in main description of package" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175106
<pochu> dfiloni: ping - wxwidgets. How's it going? Could you please upload it to REVU, as today's REVU day? ;)
<limac> ubotu: How do u get info on the new bugs as soon as they arrive?
<dfiloni> pochu: is an hard work. I can upload 2.8.6.1 version that work great. Actually I'm working at 2.8.7.1 but I don't think I can finish today.
<dfiloni> pochu: do you think I should upload 2.8.6.1 version?
<RainCT> how can I check if a var is empty?
<RainCT> in bash?  it has multiple lines so -n or -z don't work
<pochu> dfiloni: pretty please, yes. You can upload 2.8.7.1 later when you have it.
<pochu> dfiloni: but we need an wxwidgets update as soon as possible. :)
<dfiloni> pochu: I have 2.8.7.1 now, but lintian show me a lot of warnings that I want to fix
<dfiloni> Today I will upload 2.8.6.1
<pochu> dfiloni: cool, thank you!
<pochu> dfiloni: let me know once you upload it :)
<dfiloni> pochu: ok
<RainCT> persia: got it working :)
<cdm10> I asked here about packaging Python apps for Ubuntu, and was directed to learn how to use distutils... I have, and now that I've learned to put together a setup.py file, I now need to learn how to make a .deb out of it. I can use checkinstall, but that really doesn't put out proper results, it's mainly for personal use... so can someone help me figure out the proper tool for the job, and show me how to use it?
<azeem> cdm10: did you take a look at a couple of existing python packages?
<cdm10> azeem: source packages? Yes, I looked at pypolicyd-spf, but I can't make sense of the rules file.
<azeem> try some others then, maybe
<cdm10> azeem: ok, i'll look into that... I'm assuming most will be the same, though.
<cdm10> azeem: do you know anything about what I'm trying to do here?
<pochu> cdm10: using cdbs + python-distutils rule is really easy
<cdm10> pochu: any sorta guide for that?
<cdm10> pochu: or can you walk me through it? :)
<pochu> cdm10: http://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<cdm10> pochu: thanks, i'll read that
<pochu> cdm10: basically add the debhelper rule and the python-distutils one, and you are done
<pochu> (that for debian/rules, you need to tweak debian/control too)
<oly_> RainCT, i have reuploaded to same place as before if you want to take a look
<cdm10> pochu: yeah, i know the control stuff
<RainCT> oly_: what was the url for the .dsc?
<oly_> http://poke.servebeer.com/debtest/usm-core_0.2.dsc
<RainCT> cdm10: see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<cdm10> ok
<RainCT> cdm10: there is an example with cdbs there
<cdm10> RainCT: alright, thanks
<RainCT> np
<cdm10> RainCT: oh, can you maybe answer a quick distutils question?
<RainCT> cdm10: I can try, but I don't know much about it...
<cdm10> RainCT: ok, well, might as well give it a try: I'd like to have my modules put into a subfolder of /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages rather than just spewed into that folder, do you know what options to give it to do that?
<cdm10> Oh, and what do I use to generate the debian filestructure?
<RainCT> cdm10: I think it should create a subfolder there by default
<cdm10> RainCT: what should?
<cdm10> RainCT: oh, ok
<cdm10> RainCT: well, it doesn't... I'll look into it further.
<RainCT> cdm10: and cdbs + distutils will put the files automatically on their place
<cdm10> RainCT: ok
<RainCT> cdm10:  what you have to take care of are menu entries, icons, manpages, etc
<RainCT> well, for manpages just create a file called "manpages" and write their name there
<cdm10> RainCT: well, my setup.py does that.
<RainCT> oh ok
<RainCT> cdm10: then it should do everything automagically
<cdm10> it's got my glade and .desktop files and all that.
<cdm10> ok
<RainCT> didn't know setup.py handles desktop files..
 * RainCT will have to take some time to look at it
<cdm10> RainCT: it can handle any data files you tell it to handle
<pochu> cdm10: you need python-support or python-central for installing the module in /var/lib/python2.X/site-packages
<cdm10> pochu: ok...
<pochu> RainCT: well it doesn't handle them automagically, but you can tell them to install some files to some folders with data_files.
<RainCT> pochu: ah. well, with the automagically I mean that cdbs will do everything if the setup.py is ok
<RainCT> oly_: are you still arround?
<oly_> yep
<pochu> RainCT: I was talking about distutils and random files :)
<RainCT> oly_: ok, let's see..
<RainCT> oly_: 1. use same email in the changelog and in the control files
<RainCT> and same name
<oly_> okay
<RainCT> oly_: 2. there are 2 build-depends fields in debian/control
<RainCT> as I said before, the homepage should go above, near where the "Maintainer:" line is
<oly_> hum, thats wierd i did move it, probably got confused with all the files
<RainCT> Vcs-Bzr is for a repository containing the package source, not for upstream's
<RainCT> (and the url is wrong anyways :P)
<oly_> shall i just remove that line altogether then
<RainCT> if you won't put the package source on any repository, yes
<oly_> well i guess theres no point putting the source anywhere because its python
<oly_> the app is the source :p
<RainCT> debian/copyright: "Author(s)" should be either "Author" or "Authors". Also replace "usmteam" with the names and email's of the developers
<RainCT> on the upstream authors part, "usmteam" as copyright holder is fine
<RainCT> oly_: remove the comments on the top of the debian/rules file
<RainCT> and the make stuff
<oly_> okay think i have done all of those
<RainCT> (actually, I would recomment switching to cdbs as then you could drop the rules file completly)
<oly_> okay, i may have a try and see :)
<oly_> would i still need the install file in debian with cdbs ?
<RainCT> yes
<oly_> okay,
 * RainCT is away
<jpatrick> !away > RainCT
<RainCT> jpatrick: I know, but oly_ might want to know that I'm away
<RainCT> :P
<StevenHarperUK> Does anyone know when the next Community - Council meeting is (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil) - the event isn't in the calendar (http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/2007/12/01/month/all/all/1) - but it appears that they are every 2 weeks - the last was on the 29th November - so will the next be on the 13th Dec? (also it would be great if the correct date was posted on the wiki page)
<cdm10> I'm trying to used cdbs to package my python program (which uses distutils)
<cdm10> How do I generate the debian/ filestructure?
<azeem> dh_make can generate a skeleton for you
<bigon> cdm10: you can use dh_make to have a basic structure
<cdm10> bigon: ok
<cdm10> thanks
<cdm10> bigon: what do i need to have in that directory for dh_make to work?
<cdm10> bigon: it seems to want a tarball of some sort
<bigon> you should have a tarball in the parent dir with the name project_version.orig.tar.gz
<bigon> I thinks
<bigon> s/s/
<cdm10> bigon: hmm, got it to work without that
<bobbo> If you have made a debdiff for a launchpad bug, how do you get it into Universe?
<cdm10> I'm not sure what debian-native means...
<lionel> bobbo: attach your debddiff on the launchpad bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<bigon> cdm10: where debian/ubuntu is upstream
<bobbo> lionel, i have done that, do i just need to wait until someone decides to have a look at it now?
<bigon> so you don't have an upstream tarball (and thus no diff.gz generated)
<lionel> bobbo: yes, we process the queue quite frequently
<bobbo> ok thanks lionel
<lionel> bobbo: is it waiting there for a long time?
<lionel> do you have a bug  number ?
<bobbo> not really, just since this morning
<bobbo> lionel its bug #66174
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 66174 in showfsck "Man page is incorrect" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66174
<bigon> is there any bash guru around?
<cdm10> bigon: sorry, i'm new to packaging... what does that mean?
<cdm10> bigon: (what you said before)
<Ubulette> where is "new Debian menu structure" described ?
<RainCT> Ubulette: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu.html/ch3.html#s3.5
<dfiloni> pochu: wxwidgets2.8 uploaded :)
<Ubulette> RainCT, thx
<bigon> cdm10: if you package you have a tarball that comes from upstream, this tarball is normally never modified (same md5sum) all the changes you made (ie:adding a debian) is stored in a diff file
<cdm10> bigon: so, a debian-native package never came from a tarball, and the .deb is the package released by upstream?
<bigon> cdm10: no, a native package don't have a diff file because upstream is debian or ubuntu
<pochu> dfiloni: great! thank you :)
<bigon> cdm10: you can usually see if a package is native by looking at his version ( 1.0 is native and 1.0-1 is not)
<cdm10> bigon: ok, so... debian/ubuntu is the releaser of the software?
<bigon> yes
<cdm10> alright.
<cdm10> bigon: now, maybe you can help me with something else
<cdm10> I've got a proper debian/ structure created by dh_make
<cdm10> with a rules file and all that
<cdm10> but dpkg-buildpackage gives me the error make[1]: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop.
<bigon> ok
<bigon> you should modify the debian/rules to tell cdbs you package use distutils
<cdm10> bigon: can i pastebin it?
<RainCT> cdm10: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy follow the instructions in section "CDBS + distutils"
<pochu> Pretty please can any MOTU review wxWidgets 2.8? dfiloni has just uploaded it. I'll buy a beer or a drink to whoever does it ;-) Thanks in advance! Link is http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=wxwidgets2.8
<cdm10> RainCT: I copied their example debian/rules file, but I'm getting this error:
<cdm10> debian/rules: 6: include: not found
<cdm10> debian/rules: 7: include: not found
<cdm10> debian/rules: 8: include: not found
<LucidFox> Speaking of CDBS
<dfiloni> pochu: why you need wxwidgets2.8?
<LucidFox> Is CDBS preferable to plain debhelper?
<pochu> dfiloni: aMule.
<bigon> cdm10: do you install the cdbs package?
<dfiloni> pochu: 2.20 version?
<pochu> dfiloni: well it's a bug fix in a library and a lot of packages will benefit for it.
<pochu> dfiloni: I can build 2.2.0 with current, but I want the bug fixes ;)
<pochu> (In fact I built it yesterday)
<bigon> LucidFox: question of taste, cdbs has maybe less granularity over plain debhelper
<dfiloni> pochu: I know, for example filezilla 3.0.3 needs wxwidgets 2.8.6.1
<pochu> dfiloni: needs, as in requires?
<cdm10> bigon: yes
<cdm10> bigon: and, i tried dpkg-buildpackaging a source package i downloaded, and it workjed
<dfiloni> pochu: when it build if you don't have 2.8.6.1 version it returns an error message
<pochu> dfiloni: odd... another reason for uploading 2.8.6.1 ;)
<cdm10> bigon: and i checked the paths... they exist.
<cdm10> bigon: should i pastebin the file?
<cdm10> http://pastebin.ca/810103
<zul> afternoon
<bluefoxicy> hi zul
<zul> hi bluefoxicy
<bluefoxicy> I wonder the potential for a 186MB xfce-based Ubuntu livecd
<bluefoxicy> (for mini-CDR)
<crimsun> sure, just remove a lot of the stuff that normally ships in -desktop
<crimsun> (heck, one could probably do one GNOME-based)
<bluefoxicy> crimsun:  I once figured I could fit an X server and XFCE4 core desktop on Damn Small Linux inside 30MB
<bluefoxicy> (talking about kdrive vesa, not xorg)
<bluefoxicy> iirc all the xlibs and such come down to 2MB compressed
<bluefoxicy> yawn.
<bluefoxicy> so I want to dig up some stuff from earlier and bounce some ideas around.  Any good place for this?
<crimsun> ideapool/braindump?
<crimsun> (I use tiddlywikis.)
<dfiloni> persia: are you here?
<bluefoxicy> crimsun:  I have a bunch of stuff from 3 years ago ... january 2005 heh.  Lemme upload it somewhere.
<bluefoxicy> maybe I'll ping devel-discuss
<bluefoxicy> argh this is pissing me off I can't argh argh arghhhhh... hmm.
 * bluefoxicy figures out a way to host web sites from inside vmware
 * pochu looks for a MOTU to review wxwidgets! http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=wxwidgets2.8
<Ubulette> LordKow, something like that http://paste.ubuntu.com/2591/ ?
<LordKow> okay, thanks :)
<LordKow> yea same thing. i was thinking that somewhere along the lines of using the hardy trees i messed around with policykit and/or user/group permissions because the only bug report about the problem was made by me with 0 comments
<Ubulette> but I don't see that at home.
<LordKow> i made a test package undoing some of the permission changes in rules and in the overrides but i feel its still not going to work because pulse gets built with configured policykit support now.
<LordKow> i really dont use sound that much let alone ESD so i ended up uninstalling pulseaudio.
<LordKow> brb
<bigon> any (ba)sh guru here?
<desertc> I think perhaps mplayer is a required for the package dvdauthor
<Ubulette> bigon, ask your question directly
<bigon> well pbuilder-dist is currently broken and I cant figure why
<geser> what problem do you have?
<bigon> on chroot creation I get E: Type '' is not known on line 1 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list
<geser> have you tried to create the pbuilder base.tgz without that script and mv the base.tgz to the location the script expects?
<bigon> pbuilder is working fine
<ikonia> crimsun ping
<crimsun> ikonia: the reason that Bart converted the installation to postinst is that if the tarballs fails download, it will block essential packages from updating.
<crimsun> s/tarballs/tarball/
<LordKow> meh i'll just use ESD, nottin wrong with it. :)
<ikonia> crimsun: yes, I can see the reasoning behind that, but in doing so it's also created a false installation result
<ikonia> crimsun: it's a double edged sword
<crimsun> ikonia: what md5sum are you getting with 9,0,115,0?
<ikonia> crimsun: let me see f I can access my gutsy box, one moment
<ikonia> crimsun: ./install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz' saved [3036127/3036127]
<ikonia> I'm getting the same file size as you
<ikonia> just getting checksums
<crimsun> (it sure would be nice if upstream placed the precise version string in the filename...)
<ikonia> crimsun: gutsy is still using flashplugin-nonfree_9.0.48.0.2+really0ubuntu12_i386.deb
<ikonia> yes
<ikonia> that would make it easier
<crimsun> ikonia: yes, and IIRC there's a gutsy-backports request
<ikonia> yes, there is in launchpad
<ikonia> crimsun: have you got any information on the progress of that?
<ikonia> crimsun: also I'd be very interested in looking at alternatives for the post section to valdiate the install before installing the ubuntu actual meta package
<ikonia> synaptic users see it as "installed" when it is not
<crimsun> ikonia: the real solution is to kill that source package and its generated binary package completely.
<ikonia> yes, totally
<ikonia> thats the ideal senario
<SlimG2> Is there a global irc channel on freenode dedicated to ubuntu translation?
<crimsun> ikonia: as for the processing of that source package, that's up to an archive admin.  I believe they generally work business hours (save a few volunteers).
<pochu> SlimG2: #ubuntu-translators maybe?
<pochu> SlimG2: dunno if it's official though ;)
<ikonia> crimsun: yes, I don't think that would work on an individual archive basis
<ikonia> I hadn't thought of it like that
<SlimG2> pochu: Thanks, there's atleast some people there :)
<jpatrick> hmm, how can I be sure that my gpg key is on the Accepted: lists?
<RainCT> bigon: ubuntu-dev-tools from gutsy or hardy?
<jpatrick> because I uploaded to the archives and it's not appearing in -changes, and I have no mail
<bigon> RainCT: the bzr branch
<bigon> RainCT: should also be broken in hardy
<crimsun> without directly uploading a source package?  Create a junk branch of something hosted on bazaar.lp that uses ~ubuntu-dev
<crimsun> ^ jpatrick
<jpatrick> crimsun: no, I changed my gpg key and put it on LP days ago, and it doesn't seem to like it
<RainCT> bigon: can you try if revision 35 worked?
<crimsun> jpatrick: did you upload to keyserver.ubuntu.com?
<jpatrick> crimsun: yes, like 3 days ago
<jpatrick> crimsun: aha! just got the accepted email
<crimsun> jpatrick: yeah, the ACCEPTED: lag is variable
<LordKow> is there a shortcut for a run window or something with the same effect?
<pochu> LordKow: Alt+F2
<LordKow> danke
<bluefoxicy> Finally
<bluefoxicy> it took enough ssh hackery <_<
<bluefoxicy> http://bluefox.kicks-ass.org:8080/plx/
<bluefoxicy> that's all ages old stuff, and the Dazuko stuff is defunct (Fuse will have write-through support some day, the author has promised in 2.4), but eh.
<LaserJock> afternoon
<ScottK> LaserJock: Good afternoon.  Is what you pinged me about last night still relevant?
<LaserJock> ScottK: probably not
<ScottK> OK.  Just wanted to check.
<pochu> C'mon folks, let's review wxWidgets, today's REVU Day! http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=wxwidgets2.8
<LaserJock> pochu: new upstream release?
<Flare183> Flare183 is at Walmart
<pochu> LaserJock: yup. dfiloni has packaged it.
<limac> hey, when is the hardy release party? and is anyone invited to it or only the developers?
<limac> hey Laser
<limac> Jock
<LaserJock> limac: what do you mean?
<LaserJock> there are usually release parties all around the world and anybody is welcome
<limac> LaserJock: When is the Hardy release party?
<LaserJock> limac: after it's released
<LaserJock> :-)
<limac> LaserJock: The day it's released
<LaserJock> well, sometimes the parties are a bit afterward
<limac> LaserJock: And wat do u basically do in it?
<LaserJock> I've never been to one
<LaserJock> but I imagine have fun, install stuff, have more fun
<limac> OK! thnx :)
<limac> LaserJock: I/m planning to go to this one if on weekend
<siretart> slomo: (or anyone else interested in ffmpeg and ppc): could you please have a look at svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-multimedia/experimental/ffmpeg/debian and tell me if it builds on your ppc?
<siretart> (you might to choose the http url on alioth instead)
<TheMuso_> siretart: I'll have a look a bit later. I have a PPC, so can test build.
<siretart> TheMuso: thanks!
<siretart> TheMuso: you'll need to checkout from svn://svn.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg/trunk revision -r{2007-10-07}, and checkout the debian directory inside that. then you can build with 'debuild -b'
<superm1> Hi can someone in ~ubuntu-backporters take a glance at bug 173684?  imbrandon asked for a build log to make sure it built fine
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173684 in gutsy-backports "Please backport mythstream 0.18.1 from hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173684
<siretart> TheMuso: the debian branch can be checked out like this: svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-multimedia/experimental/ffmpeg/debian
<TheMuso> siretart: Ok thanks.
<bigon> RainCT: the 35 revision doesn't work
<jpatrick_> superm1: you should subscribe ubuntu-archive
<superm1> jpatrick_, needed to get an ack from the backporters team first?
<jpatrick_> ah right
<siretart> mh. rebuildd on hardy seems to require still some tweaks..
<proppy> oy
<bigon> RainCT: I don't find how to fix the issue with pbuilder-dist :/
<norsetto> proppy: yo
<pochu> Who wants a hug? I'll give a big hug to whoever reviews wxwidgets! http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=wxwidgets2.8
<pochu> It's just an upgrade and not a new package! ^ :-)
<DktrKranz> pochu, eheh. I've got dfiloni asking for it all night :)
<pochu> DktrKranz: wasn't that me? :)
<RainCT> bigon: sorry, I've to go..
<RainCT> good night
<DktrKranz> pochu, you helped him spreading the word :)
<bigon> RainCT: gn
<DktrKranz> night RainCT
<siretart> has anyone already seen build failiures like this? http://dpaste.com/27444/
<DktrKranz> siretart, yes
<RainCT> bigon: if you file a bug on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools explaining what happens I'll try to have a look at it
<DktrKranz> gcc 4.2 does not support anymore INT_{MAX,MIN}
<siretart> DktrKranz: *gulp*
<siretart> DktrKranz: and what's the fix for that?
<DktrKranz> siretart, IIRC, defining two macros which do the job
<siretart> DktrKranz: since when does gcc 4.2 do that?
<siretart> gcc-4.2_4.2.2-4 at least didn't
<DktrKranz> I've seen something similar in a fix by doko
<siretart> hrmpf
<crimsun> that seems a bit obtuse
<crimsun> aren't climits or limits.h included?
<pochu> DktrKranz: heh. wanna volunteer? ;)
<crimsun> s/aren\'t/isn\'t/
<siretart> DktrKranz: where have you seen doko fixing something like that?
<DktrKranz> siretart, I'm looking
<crimsun> yeah, I can't find anything stating that gcc-4.2 explicitly does not support INT_M{AX,IN}
<Kmos> anyone knows how to fix this FTBFS: http://pastebin.com/d775d5a4d
<Kmos> i've added libexpat1-dev to build-depends, but it doesn't fix it
<siretart> more interestingly, there is no reference to INT_MAX in the cdio source
<siretart> so it seems some included header is broken
<persia> Ubulette: 11) is that I'm seeing copyrights I recognize for things like sqllite, libjpeg, etc., and I don't see build-depends for all of them.  This makes me suspicious that there is a security issue waiting to happen.  14) Is that the "Apps/foo" is deprecated.  Look in /usr/share/doc/menu/menu.txt.gz after installing the menu package.
<persia> pochu: Taking a look at wxwidgets: Are you happy with the update?
<pochu> persia: do you mean with the packaging or with the new release?
<persia> pochu: Both.
<persia> (or each, separately, if you like)
<pochu> New release - yes. Update - haven't looked yet :P
<pochu> persia: downloading
<persia> pochu: Thanks.  Also, is there an upgrade bug?
<Ubulette> persia: this is mentioned in the copyright file because those sources are in the tarball, yet, we build with their system equiv.
<pochu> persia: yes, bug 133888
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.4.2 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<persia> Ubulette: That's perfect then.  I just didn't see everything in Build-Depends, but perhaps that's due to me not chasing recursion.  If you're sure, feel free to ignore 11)
<Ubulette> libsoftokn3.so
<Ubulette>         libsqlite3.so.0 => /usr/lib/libsqlite3.so.0 (0xb7eff000)
<persia> pochu: That'd be a good place to attach a build log if you like the update :)
<Ubulette> well, I'm sure. i've build those mozilla beasts enough to be sure :)
<persia> Ubulette: That's the important part: ignore it then.  Essentially, when I get to around 10) I start just noting things I notice that are suspicious, rather than doing a full investigation for each one.  I figure it's better to have a long list of things that need a look than half a list with the other half randomly appearing when the next upload happens.
<Ubulette> indeed, that's better
<Ubulette> do we really need to open merge bugs with "Please upload merge foo" now ?
<persia> Ubulette: I like to open merge bugs whenever I'm working on a merge so that others know it's being worked on.  If you need sponsorship, having a bug is the best way to get sponsors attention.
<Ubulette> i'm talking about the wording
<Ubulette> before, the wiki used to say "Please merge foo" and "Please sync foo"
<persia> Ubulette: That's a little odd.  Usually I use "Please merge foo" or "merge of foo", depending on how nice I want to be to the merger (me).
<Ubulette> Set the bug title to: Please upload merge <sourcepackagename><debian-version> (repository) from Debian <repository> (<component>)
<persia> Ubulette: Did the wiki change?  Which page? (I think that's wrong).
<Ubulette> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<Ubulette> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging#head-32f94fb74efce0c3a0123e984fc5292245272e32
 * persia notes that it's essential to strike a balance between having the wiki be useful for new contributors and having it be accurate for long-term developers
<Ubulette> Bug 175175
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175175 in valgrind "Please upload merge valgrind 3.2.3-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175175
<Ubulette> that sounds weird to me
<Ubulette> persia, i have all the changes ready (except the menu one) for seamonkey but I need a sponsor for the version already posted 1st. could you do it ? asac already approved
<Ubulette> or someone else, i don't mind :)
<persia> Ubulette: I don't have time now (need to leave in 10 minutes), and I wonder why asac didn't upload when approving: would the sponsor not just be duplicating his review?
<persia> Ubulette: Also, please check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging to see if the wording changes make sense to you.
<Ubulette> yep, sounds better
<Ubulette> persia, asac is not back yet.
<persia> Ubulette: Ah.  No keys.  I understand :)
<totopalma> ciao :), stacco.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-01
<Laney> I guess I'll just send the patch to the bts then
<RAOF> That'd fly.
<RAOF> Well, and you can upload to Universe, too.
<Laney> I can't
<RAOF> Oh.  Well, I could :)
<Laney> I'll sort you out with my debdiff
<RAOF> Eh.  I think we can probably wait to sync it.
<Laney> mmk
<Laney> How do I get this plugin to work, btw? It's telling me I might need to rescan my collection but I don't know how to do thtat
<Laney> Oh, I found it
<RAOF> It adds a "rescan library" button to tools.
<Laney> RAOF: Can I say that you're sending upstream a patch to the build system?
<Laney> (are you?)
<RAOF> Once it works acceptably, yes.
<Laney> cool
<directhex> remembering that 'csc' is never the right option for upstream (currently it's a debianism) - but not being able to set csc IS a bug
<directhex> <Laney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/78491/ is a good example
<directhex> i had similar madness with OOo
<RAOF> directhex: csc _might_ be an option for upstream, if they'd like to be buildable on Windows, no?
<directhex> RAOF, yes, i think that's true
<directhex> RAOF, s/windows/microsoft.net/, but yes
<RAOF> Heh.  Yeah.
<Laney> Right, the proper patch shouldn't rely on CSC, rather allow the person building to choose the compiler they like
<directhex> Laney, :)
<Laney> silly upstream
<directhex> and now... bedtime!
<Laney> nn
<nixternal> TheMuso: what do I need to do in order to renew my UUS membership?
<StevenK> nixternal: Beg.
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I was wondering why I wasn't receiving any of the emails
<StevenK> hppa      0 builds waiting in queue
 * StevenK resets his jaw
<wgrant> StevenK: Just wait for the give-back...
<StevenK> Ah, a whole bunch has failed?
<wgrant> ... it is hppa.
<TheMuso> nixternal: Whats your current uus status?
<StevenK> Point.
<wgrant> 408 failures.
<nixternal> TheMuso: expired
<wgrant> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/index_complete.html
<TheMuso> nixternal: Ok I can re-activate you if you'd like.
<nixternal> yes please :)
<TheMuso> nixternal: Done.
<nixternal> thank you much!
<james_w> tip: it helps if you actually make the changes rather than just describing them in the changelog entry
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> I've done that a few times, trying to rush things. :)
 * RAOF almost always debdiffs the new package against the old, to ensure the changelog matches reality.
<RAOF> And when I don't do that, I invariably mess up!
<TheMuso> RAOF: Thats a very good habbit.
<TheMuso> I usually do that as well, but sometimes when one is in a hurry, its easy to miss a step and assume. :p
<crimsun> what the
<crimsun> I'm still in uus?
<tonyyarusso> !backtrace
<ubottu> To get a backtrace of a failing application please read: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
<TheMuso> crimsun: heh
<tonyyarusso> Uhhh, okay.  How do I get a backtrace for a mozilla application?  gdb tells me ""/usr/bin/kompozer": not in executable format: File format not recognized" and quits.  That file is a shell script that's sets up the environment to run kompozer-bin.
<TheMuso> tonyyarusso: Attach to the pid with gdb?
<tonyyarusso> TheMuso: ah, right
<tonyyarusso> TheMuso: wait, crud.  I can't do that either.  It's crashing with a buffer overflow immediately on run.
<crimsun> invoke it from within gdb.
<crimsun> (not the wrapper, the actual executable)
<tonyyarusso> Will that work without the voodoo of the setup script?
 * tonyyarusso goes to try, but who knows
<crimsun> that's a test point.
<azeem> you can set edit the environment in gdb as well
<azeem> -set
<tonyyarusso> All right, now I get (no debugging symbols found), although I made and installed a dbgsym package...
<tonyyarusso> (and the application doesn't actually start either)
<tonyyarusso> I had produced kompozer-dbgsym_0.7.10-0ubuntu5_i386.ddeb using debuild -nc, although I have no idea if that actually worked correctly, then installed it with dpkg -i.
<TheMuso> tonyyarusso: Why not fetch the packages from ddebs.ubuntu.com?
<tonyyarusso> TheMuso: because I didn't know such things had been made for my package.
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: You will probably need dbgsym's for libraries linked to
<RAOF> Does anyone have a script to walk the dependency chain and install -dbgsym packages?  I've occasionally thought one would be useful, but not hard enough to actually write one.
<TheMuso> Hmm sounds like ddebs.ubuntu.com has not been very widely advertised./
<RAOF> (As in: potential use is insufficient to overcome inertia)
<ajmitch_> didn't apport install those at some point?
<tonyyarusso> TheMuso: Don't take me as a good data point for that - I haven't been paying attention.
<crimsun> pitti wrote an e-mail to the dev list(s) some years ago
<crimsun> granted, that's not precisely wide advertisement
<james_w> I was wondering the other day why -dbgsym packages don't depend on others
<james_w> or recommend rather
<james_w> I suspect there is a technical reason for it
<RAOF> Or maybe no one thought of it?
<RAOF> After giving it not very much thought, I think pkg-create-dbgsym should have all the relevant info.  At least it has the list of binary dependencies and library shlibs and such.
 * RAOF thinks 'glitch-free' pulseaudio could do with a less anti-descriptive name.
<tonyyarusso> In Build-Deps, is a minimum version required?
<RAOF> Only when a minimum version _is_ required.
<RAOF> So, in general, no.
<tonyyarusso> Hmm, what else might generate this error?  "dpkg-source: error: syntax error in kompozer-0.7.10/debian/control at line 9: block lacks a package field"
<crimsun> pastebin the debian/control ;)
<RAOF> I think I'll settle for calling it the new 'torture ALSA' feature of pulseaudio.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Why? Whats up with it, besides your issues with underruns?
<tonyyarusso> http://paste.ubuntu.com/78514/
<RAOF> TheMuso: Exactly those issues, nothing more.
<crimsun> RAOF: to be fair, much of the high-res timer work hasn't been stabilised yet, so we don't see it in alsa-driver yet.
<ajmitch_> tonyyarusso: the extra blank line
<crimsun> (meaning Takashi's high-res timer work)
<ajmitch_> tonyyarusso: ie, take out line 7
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch_: oh, doh
<RAOF> crimsun: Oh?  I thought that, while it made unusual demands of the alsa drivers, it was at least expected for the drivers to be able to comply :)
<crimsun> RAOF: err, given just the state of HDA quirks statically compiled into the driver, ...
<RAOF> So how is fedora shipping pulseaudio 0.9.13?
<crimsun> "very carefully"?
<crimsun> seriously, F10 ships 0.9.13+crackton of patches
<RAOF> Ah.
 * TheMuso is pulling the useful ones from git and adding them to Ubuntu.
<tonyyarusso> How do I add the ddebs.ubuntu.com repo to pbuilder?
<crimsun> update --override-config --othermirror foo
<crimsun> (my syntax may be incorrect, but that's the gist)
<RAOF> I tend to just pbuilder login --save-after-login.
<RAOF> Then edit away!
<tonyyarusso> I didn't know you could login to a pbuilder...
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.  It's moderately useful :)
<sooth> I have a package which I am trying to uupdate and the patches are not applying cleaning. But I do not know what patches it is trying to apply. There is no patches directory in debian. Where could it be trying to retrieve the patches from?
<crimsun> from the diff.gz inlined
<sooth> crimsun: Ah, thanks.
<sooth> Is there a way to extract a .changes file from a deb?
<ScottK> sooth: What problem are you trying to solve?
<TheMuso> sooth: .changes files are only ever usd when uploading packages. Source and binary packages do not keep .changes files. The changelog should be enough for you to find out what has changed.
<ScottK> jdong: You around?
<sooth> I built a package using prevu as a dependency of another package. Now I want to dput the first package to my local repo so the second package can see it.
<ScottK> sooth: .changes is an output of the build process, so if you don't have the .changes and you need it, the simplest thing is to build it again.
<sooth> ScottK: Does prevu output a changes file? Or do I have to use pbuilder directly?
<ScottK> sooth: No idea.  I've never used it.
<sooth> I thought I remember prevu taking care of this stuff for me automatically
<ScottK> Lutin: Why did you split libmlt into three binary packages back in January of this year?  The debian changelog says you did, but not why.  There are no packages in the archive (that I have found) that depend on one that do not depend on all three, so I don't see the point.
<sooth> /quit I've got an infinite number of places to go, the problem is
<sooth> where to stay. -- Johnny
<jmarsden> If a source tarball includes a LICENCE file (GPLv2) but none of the actual source code files have a copyright line at all, is that going to fly for Universe acceptance?? Or would we need to get the original authors to add copyright statements?  I've seen the other way around, GPL-style copyright in the source but no COPYING/LICENSE file... but not this way around...
<coppro> I've heard that it won't, but I'm not sure
<jmarsden> That's my instinct too.  OK, thanks.
<RAOF> jmarsden: If it's unambiguous that the LICENCE applies to all files in the tarball, it /might/ fly.
 * Hobbsee randomly trouts RAOF
<RAOF> But it's much nicer for everyone concerned if each file has an unambiguous licence header.
 * RAOF catches the trout by the tail and dances a merry jig.
<jmarsden> Yes, definitely... OK.
<tonyyarusso> Could someone take a look at this backtrace and point me in the right direction?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/78607/
<tonyyarusso> (Line 294 looks interesting)
<RAOF_> tonyyarusso: Hm.  There's nothing obviously null there.  294 is only complaining that it can't find the source file so that it can display it to you.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF_: oh.  Well, the application is hanging for some reason or other.  (Previous build would crash with a segfault, now it just hangs.)
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Good morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<geser> good morning
<NCommander> hey geser
<geser> Hi NCommander
<NCommander> I finally have non-****py internet access again!
<iulian> Heya geser, NCommander.
<NCommander> hey iulian
<eMerzh> good morning everybody :) ... if you have free time, feel free to review or advocate it :p ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman )
<aftertaf> hi all...
<aftertaf> i want to report a bug with kde nightly (4.2 beta)
<aftertaf> i did it via kde bugs website, but someone said one of the problems is an installation problem . ..
<Hobbsee> aftertaf: you probably want #Kubuntu-devel
<aftertaf> basically, the kickoff apps launcher has no applications in it, apart from the favorites i had added from 4.1.3
<aftertaf> ahh Hobbsee thx :)
<aftertaf> hi
<Hobbsee> hey there :)
<aftertaf> you're up late......
<Hobbsee> i'ts almost 8pm here?
<aftertaf> ah i'm up too early to calculate correctly, then ;)
<Hobbsee> haha
<aftertaf> 10am
<aftertaf> so hows it going anyway??
<aftertaf> long time no (ir) see
<Hobbsee> studying for exams and such
<aftertaf> nice...
<aftertaf> been there.... glad its behind me.... :D
<james_w> morning all
<dholbach> can anybody in the MOTU SRU team let me know what the state of bug 244613 is?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 244613 in apt-mirror "[intrepid alpha1] apt-mirror gives error "closedir() attempted on invalid dirhandle DIR at /usr/bin/apt-mirror line 537."" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/244613
<dholbach> jdong, nxvl: are you looking for a replacement for dktrKranz?
<yann2> hello!
<yann2> I am trying to find someone from the ubuntu planet, for a special "membership" request.. anyone know who I could speak to?
<dholbach> yann2: what are you exactly looking for?
<yann2> dholbach > I want to discuss the possibility of adding a new feed - which wouldn't be for a personal blog, but for a Ubuntu tag on the blog platform of my company (low traffic).
<yann2> I am deploying ubuntu as a server solution for 18 months already - some people are also moving to ubuntu/kubuntu on their desktops
<yann2> I thought it could be interesting as a way to promote ubuntu server, get feedback, discuss about the software we deploy / small tricks etc
<dholbach> yann2: technically anybody in ubuntumembers can add any to Planet by using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu - but I'm not sure we've had a case like yours before
<yann2> what software is interesting for us, what prevents us from moving specific parts to ubuntu,KVM virtualisation
<yann2> dholbach > I know I read this...  this is why I was speaking of "special" request :P
<dholbach> yann2: I'd suggest bringing it up at the next CC meeting
<yann2> oh there is no such thing as a ubuntu-planet mailing list or so? if no then I'll be there :)
<dholbach> I'm sure it might be interesting to have content like this (if it's not the dominating content on planet), but I guess it could be discussed beforehand to have something like a rough guideline
<yann2> it's very low traffic, one post a week I guess - we are an archaeological company, not it ;)
<dholbach> no planet-related mailing list I'm aware of
<yann2> s/it/IT
<slangasek> james_w: meh, you need to stop fixing FTBFS packages so indiscriminately, now mseide-msegui builds but the output is a steaming pile :-)
<james_w> heh :-)
<slangasek> (mseide-msegui, Depends: msegui, mseide, msegui-tools; Contents: /usr/share/doc/mseide-msegui.  Um... ok then!)
<Hobbsee> wow...
<Hobbsee> clearly, that's special.
<StevenK> From "Perhaps bonghits will help my packaging" school ...
<slangasek>  Description: gtk bindings for the lua language version 5.1
<slangasek>  Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4), libffi5 (>= 3.0.4)
<slangasek> <sigh>
<yann2> dholbach > I've added an item to the CC meeting agenda.. it's tomorrow.. I hope I'll be able to make it at 21h, no connectivity at home :(
<yann2> mrf, will be postponed to next one then, just booked a concert ticket :)
<james_w> slytherin: hi, are you still interested in bug 237668?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237668 in classpath "Please merge classpath 2:0.97.1-5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237668
<slytherin> james_w: Sure. I will work on it today. I also have libjdic-java merge in my name.
<james_w> cool
<james_w> and congratulations
<mok0> hey slytherin, congrats!
<\sh> moins
<geser> Hi \sh
 * sebner winks \sh and geser =)
 * geser waves back
<eMerzh> if someone has some time to review my package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ) i'll be happy to correct if some mistakes showed up
<lidaobing> help review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=iptux, thanks
<JonReagan> could someone nuke my package from REVU?
<JonReagan> it
<JonReagan> is http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=openproj
<ScottK-laptop> JonReagan: Why do you want it nuked?
<JonReagan> The req. development is waaay over my head
<JonReagan> packaging was easy, but it turned out that some internal stuff had to be changed
<JonReagan> I would also have to package several included apps which were not in the repos
<ScottK-laptop> JonReagan: No real need to nuke it then.  Just leave a comment to that effect (with specifics if they aren't otherwise commented) and maybe someone else will pick it up.
<JonReagan> thanks Scott!
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi ScottK
<eMerzh> if a motu want to review my package, previously advocated by DktrKranz, it's waiting at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ... :D thanks a lot for your time
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<slytherin> james_w: I probably missed some message from you earlier. We had to evacuate the office building due to a false bomb threat. :-)
<james_w> wow
<lidaobing> sladen, India?
<slytherin> lidaobing: yes
 * ScottK lives near Washington, DC.  We had a lot of that after 9/11.
<quentusrex> Is someone around to help with a permissions issue/
<quentusrex> ?
<slytherin> james_w: I am marking bug 303305 invalid. jboss packages will move to universe in jaunty cycle. is that fine?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 303305 in libpicocontainer-java "Should be in multiverse?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/303305
<james_w> slytherin: works for me
<sebner> ScottK: no wish to move to a safe country like Austria? ;P
<ScottK> sebner: Where I don't speak the language?  No.
<sebner> ScottK: well, consider Ireland then =)
<laga> just listen to falco
<sebner> laga: heh
<ScottK> sebner: I've already lived in Ireland once.
<sebner> ScottK: cool, didn't know. I was there for 2 weeks of holiday
<geser> I was once in Scotland and it was rainy
<ScottK> I spent roughly a quarter of my 20's outside the US.
<quentusrex>  If I have a php based piece of software called FreePBX that controls the software Asterisk(which does not use apache for anything). FreePBX developers say to change the user that apache runs under from www-data and the group from www-data all to 'asterisk' so that apache has all of the right permissions. Is there another way to enable the right permissions without changing the user and group for apache???
<slytherin> geser: any idea why libjboss-cache1-java is not yet synced from Debian? There are no Ubuntu changes and the Debian version has been cleared form NEW queue since 2 days.
<sebner> geser: heh, rain \o/
<sebner> ScottK: still think the US is the best?
<ScottK> slytherin: Unstable or Experimental?
<ScottK> sebner: For me, yes.  For others, YMMV.
<slytherin> ScottK: unstable/main, previously it was in contrib
<sebner> ScottK: kay
<ScottK> slytherin: Dunno.  The sync runs on a periodic.
<slytherin> ScottK: I was assuming the period to be 24 hours.
<ScottK> sebner: We had German students living with us for 4 years and they all left with a MUCH more positive view than they arrived with.  Don't judge things here too much by what you see in the media.
<broonie> I get the impression that it does rather depend on where you are.
<sebner> ScottK: well, voting Bush *two* times isn't giving a good impression indeed ;)
<dholbach> sebner: tell us who got nearly 30% in Austria? :)
<sebner> dholbach: heh, good point but bush had powers for 4 years already ;)
<dholbach> I think it's time now to not turn #ubuntu-motu into "the backyard" forums :))
<ScottK> sebner: Well the first time I think is excusable as he ran as a very different person than he turned out to be.  The 2nd time, well I blame the Democrats.  Probably any other breathing politician in the US could have beat Bush in 2004, but they chose the one almost guaranteed to fail.
<bddebian> *cough*
<geser> slytherin: did the archive admins run their autosync script since that day?
<sebner> ScottK: maybe true but still no excuse
<sebner> geser: btw ... voting :P
<slytherin> geser: doesn't it run automatically?
<geser> sebner: sure, I plan to write that mail today, I already know what I want to write, I just need to do it :)
<sebner> geser: heh, cool. thumbs up
<geser> slytherin: iirc no, one of the archive admins needs to start it
<geser> but I might be mistaken
<geser> at least this is the case for new packages not yet in Ubuntu
<slytherin> geser: but this package was already present in Ubuntu. Anyway, I am currently trying to build Debian version in pbuilder. If it builds then I will specifically ask someone to do the sync.
<geser> slytherin: yes I know, but I don't remember if auto-sync is full automatic or only semi-automatic (an archive admin has to start it)
<ScottK> directhex: Help appreciated with mono transition for kde4bindings: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/kde4bindings/4:4.1.80-0ubuntu1
<slytherin> geser: I was wrong about libjboss-cache1-java, it is synced already and built. Also libhibernate3-java is built.
<slytherin> any archive admins around?
<cody-somerville> slytherin, what do you need?
<slytherin> cody-somerville: Can you please take a look at libhibernate3-java binary package in queue and clear it if it has no problems?
<slytherin> cody-somerville: I am planning to do retry for other packages in DEPWAIt because of libhibernate3-java
<jdong> muahahaha -Zlzma! -Zlzma!
<ScottK> jdong: Do you know anything about the mlt packages we have from Debian Multimedia?
<eMerzh> someone has time to review a pkg?
<jdong> ScottK: no, I don't have any experience with them
<ScottK> jdong: Any chance you'd be willing to take a look at updating them?  I know zip about ffmpeg stuff.  I'm mostly wanting to get the kde4 version of kdenlive in Jaunty.
<jdong> ScottK: yeah, I plan to look at updating the media stack soon-ish
<jdong> ScottK: currently I'm bogged down trying to help handbrake upstream produce some proper debianized packaging
<jdong> it's one of those media apps that has to bundle half of multiverse, so fun fun fun :)
<ScottK> jdong: Cool.  Both the mlt packages are updated in Debian Multimedia, so it should be pretty easy.
<ScottK> Lovely.
<quentusrex> What's the process to get a brand new piece of software that hasn't ever been packaged before, into ubuntu?
<RainCT> quentusrex: well, packaging it and uploading it to REVU
<RainCT> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<quentusrex> What if it's not my software. Can I upload for instance vtiger the CRM software? and the FreePBX software?
<RainCT> quentusrex: if the licensing is correct, sure
<ScottK-laptop> leonel: How you doing?
<ScottK-laptop> leonel: New security issue in the latest clamav release.
<ScottK-laptop> leonel: I got Jaunty updated and a package for Intrepid to the security team, but you'll need to add this one to your list.
<ScottK-laptop> leonel: https://wwws.clamav.net/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1266
<ubottu> wwws.clamav.net bug 1266 in libclamav "recursive stack overflow in jpeg parsing code" [Security,Resolved: fixed]
<ScottK-laptop> leonel: How's that project going?
<leonel> ScottK-laptop:   got harder than I though with the patches you sent  I guess I fix first the critical CVE's addressed already on Debian and this one you pointed  then the  mem leaks,   is this right with you ???
<ScottK> leonel: Sounds good.
<ScottK> leonel: I'd say if you get this new ones and all the ones Debian addressed, that'd be worth an upload.  That'd give you more time to work through the rest.
<leonel> scottK great ..
<ScottK-laptop> Annoying when the answer to the question, "Why isn't it showing up in the archive yet?" is "I forgot to upload it."
<jdong> :)
<jdong> it's worse when the answer is "wait... where DID I upload it??"
<ScottK> Well I've done that one too.
<jdong> what version of Ubuntu first supported LZMA debs?
<calc> jdong: 8.04 iirc
<jdong> mmmkay, good enough.
<calc> jdong: well full support anyway
 * calc wrote the final bits of support, but can't remember exactly when ;-)
<jdong> handbrake is generating 10MB binaries. Wanna see if I can cut that down a bit.
<jdong> bzip2 didn't help, so time to try my last buddy :)
<calc> i discussed it UDS and the first one i went to was in Oct 2007 so must be 8.04
<calc> it might be interesting to recompress the whole archive and redo packages that it would help a lot
<calc> in some cases it makes a huge difference
<calc> but i only looked at what was on the alt cd
<jdong> calc: hmm, gzip: 4.5MB+4.8MB; lzma: 3.3MB+3.6MB....
<jdong> I wonder if a 2.4MB net savings is worth it....
<jdong> then again I don't think an extra 4 seconds compressing the package is worth shedding tears over, either.
<calc> jdong: heh
<nxvl> nixternal: we are arriving to SFO or San Jose, it would be better if you specify in your post to which airport are you arriving
<sebner> nxvl: haha!!
<jdong> leleobhz: ping; I've gone evil and repackaged handbrake using debhelper with some coordination from their development team. I've stuck my work-in-progress on a PPA at ppa.launchpad.net/handbrake-ubuntu/ubuntu
<jdong> in particular as outlined in README.Debian upstream provided strong reasoning for bundling their libraries and insist that either this be upheld or we don't try to make official packages and cause a support headache
<jdong> I still have debian/copyright to write, and neither ghb nor HandBrakeCLI have a manpage
<jdong> I noticed that you created a manpage for the CLI; I'd like to ask for permission to use it with credit, if you please
<calc> jdong: for your brief description it sounds like handbrake is mplayer part 2? :\
<calc> s/for/from/
<jdong> calc: slightly worse than that :)
<calc> iow we like to do weird crap and you will like it or else? ;-)
<calc> lol
<jdong> calc: echo *.tar.gz: a52dec.tar.gz faac.tar.gz faad2.tar.gz ffmpeg.tar.gz lame.tar.gz libdca.tar.gz libdvdread.tar.gz libmkv.tar.gz libmp4v2.tar.gz libogg.tar.gz libsamplerate.tar.gz libtheora.tar.gz libvorbis.tar.gz mpeg2dec.tar.gz x264.tar.gz xvidcore.tar.gz
<jdong> and there's about 3x that # of files in patches :)
<jdong> and yes, they do use incompatible --configure flags compared to what we do, and different ancestry libmp4v2, etc
 * calc thinks it would be better off just adding handbrake to some sort of blacklist never to install on Ubuntu list
<calc> until they can figure out wtf they are doing
<jdong> calc: oh installation is perfectly fine -- the bundled libs never see the light of day; statically linked.
<calc> oh thats somewhat better i guess
<calc> it just makes handbrake huge ;-)
<jdong> calc: their reasons for doing so are outlined in my README.Debian; they do use newer-than-svn and not-in-svn enhancements to the above libraries to do the black magic needed for good quality iPod/iPhone H.264's
<jdong> I mean, of course we'll all moan and groan about the practice...
<jdong> but the alternative (coaxing it to build against system libs) is an even BIGGER nightmare
<calc> jdong: we can't just push those changes into the mentioned packages?
<jdong> calc: no, that'll break the rest of the media stack.
<calc> they made library abi breaking changes to support better h.264?
<jdong> I'm sure most of the rest of the world won't appreciate ac3 downmixing, libmp4v2 API changes, iTunes store atoms in MP4's, etc
<jdong> calc: see http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6272197&postcount=35
<jdong> calc: the iPod Touch and AppleTV are very finicky devices when it comes to MP4 files; handbrake dev forums are full of weird corner cases that require codec patches to fix.
<calc> none of those changes sound like things that wouldn't be wanted elsewhere (particuarly all the configure fixes)
<superm1> that's no excuse for not finding a way to better integrate into the parent libraries imo
<jdong> the worst part of the above is their libmp4v2 is a completely different lineage than our libmp4v2.
<jdong> superm1: meh I agree but that's not really a short-term solution.
<jdong> we aren't really in any position to essentially fork the project and make our derivation unsupportable.
<jdong> look at what happened with Azureus 2.5.x.x
<calc> jdong: are they even planning on doing the fixes if you put their hacked up mess into Ubuntu? :)
<jdong> calc: to be honest I don't think their devs *CARE* what the hell we do in Ubuntu.
<jdong> calc: they already have a fairly negative image of us based on previous attempts to "fix the build system"
<jdong> it took a bit of a back and forth with their devs before I got a response that wasn't an attack at my male anatomy ;-)
<calc> jdong: i'll withold my true opinion of what this sounds like wrt them, but its very similiar to what most people thought of mplayer... ;-)
<jdong> (ok it wasn't THAT bad, but fairly cloase :D)
<calc> jdong: so if they don't want users don't help them out, just remove it from Ubuntu completely?
<calc> it sounds like they are just too lazy to do things the correct way
<jdong> calc: well if Ubuntu doesn't want the package in the repos then I am not going to insist that to be done.
<jdong> calc: I'm mostly getting involved to create some better packages than their subpar ones on their site currently
<calc> and with the personal attacks you said they made sounds like they are around 10 years old as well
<calc> ah i see
<jdong> if Ubuntu doesn't want them, I'll help their team maintain a set of good packages in a PPA
<jdong> at least something that builds in a verifiable environment and stays reasonably close to policy
<jdong> I totally understand if we on the Ubuntu side don't want yet-another-bundled-package
<calc> well i guess that is useful if they are already packaging broken crap that people will end up installing on Ubuntu if we don't have something better ;-)
<jdong> calc: exactly. That's my motivation.
<jdong> calc: and upstream only built Intrepid packages and you don't want to know what people are trying to do getting it to run on Hardy.
<calc> lol
<eMerzh> nobody want to review my package ? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman
<Laney> eMerzh: You've asked 4 times today, that's probably a bit much
<eMerzh> sorry :s
<eMerzh> i don't know how much to ask... i just don't want my package  to be forgotten :)
<leonel> scottK   intrepid  has clamav 0.94.1   do you plan to push 0.94.2 to  intrepid and hardy ?
<geser> leonel: see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-December/005068.html
<leonel> geser: thanks but I'm asking for a push for 0.94.1 as  was done with 0.92.1
<TheMuso> jdong: I know for a fact that if the libsamplerate author found out that they tweaked stuff in his code, he would want to get it into his releases. I've actualy met the author personally.
<ScottK> leonel: Intrepid yes, hardy not directly.
<TheMuso> The libsamplerate author that is.
<ScottK> leonel: For Hardy we need to test the rdepends and such like we did with Dapper for 0.92.
<quentusrex> what license would allow software to be included under 'main' rather than 'restricted'??
<directhex> quentusrex, any DFSG-free license
<directhex> quentusrex, but to be in either main OR restricted needs a good reason (as opposed to uni/multiverse)
<quentusrex> what is the different between BSD and GPL?
<directhex> one is a copyleft license, one is not
<geser> sebner: finally found some time to vote on your application
<sebner> geser: hopefully also on all the others :P
<pochu> hello :)
<sebner> geser: heh, thx for your comment. I'll be carefully =)
<sebner> hi pochu =)
<pochu> \o sebner
<mok0> sebner: just sent my +1
<sebner> mok0: huh? so late? thx :) but to be honest, my hardy work wasn't that good. still in learning process these days :)
<mok0> sebner: I've been under a rock
<sebner> mok0: heh, I like rocks, cool and quiet =)
<mok0> sebner: heh, nice to be back in daylight though
<sebner> mok0: daylight? that's not what a geek likes :P
<directhex> daylight makes it hard to see monitors
<mok0> Ah, the Dear Leader is up and around today
<directhex> mok0, kim jong il?
<mok0> directhex: yep, inspecting air esquadron 1044 today
<mok0> ;-)
<ScottK> directhex: Any chance of help on mono updates for kde4bindings?
<directhex> ScottK, certainly. how can i help?
<directhex> ScottK, warning: i can't download and test it, i'm on a crappy hotel wifi and am being charged per meg
<ScottK> directhex: INevermind then.
<ScottK> directhex: Odds are it will still be waiting when you get home.  None of us on the Kubuntu team know much about mono.
<directhex> i won't be back in the civilized south until wednesday evening
<ScottK> directhex: Shouldn't be a problem.  We just disabled building the mono bindings for now.
<directhex> ScottK, are you using debian's kdebindings as a basis? i know pusling has been talking with us about the pre-transition packaging, and the changes needed should be minimal
<ScottK> directhex: Just grab the source package when you can.
<ScottK> directhex: Last we tried what they have it didn't work.
<ScottK> directhex: I haven't looked into details.
<directhex> ScottK, well, it'll FTBFS on the mono end due to the build-deps needing a small update. failures for other reasons are obviously out of my hands
<directhex> ScottK, i know all the mono libs etc are packages in the right places in their debian/rules & debian/control
<ScottK> directhex: It builds all but mono fine.
<directhex> ScottK, for now, try changing any mono-foo deps (e.g. mono-gac) to mono-devel (>= 2.0.1) and see if that at least fixes the ftbfs
<ScottK> OK.  I'll try that.
<leleobhz> jdong: thanks a lot, iwill look you package. sorry by the waiting, because my personal live isnt going very well, and this weekend i got problems again
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-02
<sooth> I can't get prevu to find a package I previously built using prevu. I have added "deb file:/var/cache/pbuilder/hardy-debs ./" to my sources.list and can confirm that the pacakge is there with version number "0.12.4-0ubuntu1~8.04prevu1_i386r" (prevu complains about not finding >=0.12.4). What could I be doing wrong?
<Elbrus> sooth: you shoul create a proper Release file, see for example http://blogs.cae.tntech.edu/mwr/2007/05/28/my-own-private-debian-repository/
<Elbrus> s/shoul/should
<sooth> I'm looking to fix my prevu setup not create an alternate one
<sooth> Fixed it. I needed to run prevu-update.
<sooth> The truth is, when all is said and done, one does not teach a subject, one teaches a student how to learn it.  --Jacques Barzun
<sooth>  
<sooth>  
<sooth> /quit
<sooth> The truth is, when all is said and done, one does not teach a subject,
<sooth> one teaches a student how to learn it.  --Jacques Barzun
<sooth>  
<ajmitch> trying to be profound doesn't always work there...
<jdong> ajmitch: particularly when the IRC client sucks at line breaks.
<jdong> The truth is, when all is said and done, I FREAKING SPENT SIX HOURS WRITING PREVU DOCUMENTATION ON THE WIKI FOR A REASON
<jdong> *breathes heavily*
<nixternal> nxvl: I fixed my blog post, thanks for that heads up
 * ScottK-laptop runs lintian on the .deb for the new lintian he just installed to test said lintian for backporting.
<ScottK-laptop> ;-)
 * Elbrus is happy, because his package winff finally installs in ubuntu (via debian), but now want to change something for ubuntu
<Elbrus> Should I just supply a debdiff patch in LP? or put the changed package in REVU?
<Elbrus> ScottK-laptop: I just got a warning from lintian when I ran it with "--color=always" in jaunty: Use of uninitialized value $_ in split at /usr/share/perl/5.10/Term/ANSIColor.pm line 121.
<Elbrus> do you want me to file the bug?
<ScottK-laptop> Elbrus: Do you have a Debian chroot you can  try it in?
<Elbrus> pdebuild
<ScottK-laptop> If you could replicate it in Debian, then I think you should file a bug in Debian BTS.
<ScottK-laptop> Virtually all Lintian work is done in Debian.
<Elbrus> ScottK-laptop: ok, I'll test
<jdong> dear universe, do I want to replace Ubuntu with Fedora 10 for a few days on my Macbook for fun?
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: After you merge mlt and mlt++, sure.
<Hobbsee> probably not
<jdong> it's been well over a year since I've seriously ran another distro
<jdong> I'm gonna first do a deep rsyncing for an eventual 10-minute restore job
<TheMuso> jdong: Do you use the applesmc module by any chance?
<jdong> TheMuso: not really; I did stare at temp readings before, but recently I havne't found much use for it
<TheMuso> jdong: Good because I don't use it either, as it eats battery life.
<TheMuso> At least on my MacBookPro 4,1.
<jdong> TheMuso: so it's not just my imagination.
<jdong> I've noticed an extra watt of power draw with it probed in.
<jdong> without it I can idle at 11.9W
<jdong> and this is a non-SR macbook too, so I don't even have your FSB-clocking magic.
<TheMuso> jdong: Yeah, its not using interrupts, its constantly polling.
<jdong> wow, I didn't know that.
<TheMuso> The only reason why I'd like to have it loaded is for the hard drive protection that is available in some patches I've seen floating around.
<TheMuso> jdong: You ever been able to get battery estimates simlar to what OS X can offer?
<jdong> TheMuso: no, I'm still close to an hour off
<jdong> OS X idles at about 8000mA-9000mA
<jdong> which corresponds to a bit under the 10W mark
<TheMuso> jdong: Right, which means it likely throttles down even further.
<jdong> with that, it's able to offer me 5hr estimates with screen and wifi on
<jdong> yeah it's doing something that I'm not doing in Ubuntu
<jdong> and I've got a custom kernel with AHCI hackery too
<TheMuso> Why do you need that custom kernel?
<jdong> the EFI puts the ICH7 southbridge in ata_piix compatibility mode
<jdong> i.e. no AHCI, no ALPM
 * TheMuso is lucky he can reduce his screen brightness, or even turn the backlight off completely in order to increase battery life.
<jdong> forcing AHCI to be used and enabling ALPM results in saving another 0.5W or so
<TheMuso> And your kernel makes linux use AHCI natively?
<TheMuso> Nice
<TheMuso> How do you do that?
<jdong> yeah, hack.
<jdong> on this macbook it's just a matter of adding the PCI ID of the SATA controller to ahci.c
<jdong> removing it from ata_piix.c
<TheMuso> A good reason to get Linux to boot from efi natively then.
<jdong> but that does *NOT* work univerally
<TheMuso> Right.
<jdong> in fact the same method on my SR iMac panics it at boot
<TheMuso> Lovely.,
<TheMuso> But desktops are not soo much of a concern.
<jdong> there's a magic bit somewhere you can write in PCI config dataspace that punts the controller back to AHCI
<TheMuso> Since there is no battery.
<jdong> well the iMac "desktop" is nothing more than a vertically mounted laptop ;-)
<jdong> ICH8M
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> Hrm that config stuff sounds like it would be useful.
<jdong> yeah, I didn't look too much into it
<jdong> someone has a GRUB stage2 hack for doing this to the Mac Pro
<TheMuso> Is there a patch floating around anywhere?
<jdong> where it's needed to enable half the SATA ports
 * TheMuso nods.
<jdong> I'm sure with a bit of reading of the Intel specs it's not too hard to adapt that patch for the ICH8M used in Santa Rosa
<TheMuso> It would be good to get something useful into Ubuntu to benefit all.
<jdong> yeah, though my conversations with mjg59 on this have mostly ended with no good resolution
<TheMuso> As I'd love to run the controller in AHCI as well, but I don't like making changes unless I can include the change in a sane way that can be pushed into Ubuntu proper.
<jdong> the bottom line seems to be that he's not comfortable with any of the ugly hacks to kick the controller back into AHCI mode
<jdong> i.e. it'd have some ugly effects on other AHCI chipsets
<TheMuso> Right, thats my thought as well.
<jdong> and the "proper fix" would of course to have Apple stop kicking the controller into PIIX mode
<jdong> I totally believe his word on this stuff :)
<TheMuso> Yeah, or linux booting from efi natively.
<TheMuso> So do I.
<jdong> http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8328521
<jdong> see that thread, and the reply that links to another thread
<jdong> a bit of link traversal will bring you to the GRUB patch
<jdong> it's for the 268{0,1,2} series controllers, my iMac has the 28xx series controller
<jdong> another benefit of AHCI mode is NCQ -- anything to help Linux's IO response lately is a welcome change :)
 * TheMuso nods.
<jdong> I'd be curious what it takes to EFI boot these machines
<jdong> from what I understand it is the BIOS emulation part of the firmware that does these things
<TheMuso> Yeah, the other issue is video cards/drivers, the nvidia drivers wouldn't work because they need a BIOS.
<jdong> ah, interesting, I didn't know that
<TheMuso> Yeah I read that somewhere.
<TheMuso> Can't remember where though.
<TheMuso> Probably on the refit website.
<ScottK-laptop> Any idea do we really need a sylpheed package and a sylpheed-gtk1 package, both?
<TheMuso> jdong: Ouch, it also seems the drive in Linux under legacy IDE mode doesn't allow for DMA. :S
<jdong> TheMuso: eep, really? I seem to have DMA working here on my iMac. I think.
<TheMuso> jdong: And your imac is not using ahci
<jdong> that's correct
<TheMuso> I just tried sudo hdparm -d /dev/sda and I got an error on my mbp.
 * TheMuso is going to try a kernel with an ahci hack.
<slytherin> sebner: Congratulations. :-)
<dholbach> good morning
<slytherin> dholbach: Good morning. :-)
<dholbach> hi slytherin!
<tonyyarusso> Could anyone check out http://paste.ubuntu.com/78607/ and see if there's anything that jumps out at them?  Trying to figure out why it's crashing/hanging.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<dholbach> tonyyarusso: can you type "bt full" and pastebin that?
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: at what stage would that be done?
<dholbach> tonyyarusso: when you attached gdb to the process, just type it in
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: wait, isn't that what I just did?  (See line 296)
<dholbach> no
<tonyyarusso> oh
<dholbach> you get the bt for all threads
<dholbach> and you don't include "full" which includes local variables, etc
<iulian> Good morning dholbach.
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: So, immediately after attach, or after continue?
<dholbach> after continue
<dholbach> "c" works too :)
<tonyyarusso> nice
<dholbach> oh sorry
<dholbach> you did
<dholbach> sorry
 * dholbach should get another coffee
<tonyyarusso> hah.  So I'm not crazy...  Well, I am, but not this way.
<dholbach> excuser-moi :)
<dholbach> tonyyarusso: could it be this: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2339056&group_id=170132&atid=853122 ?
<ubottu> Sourceforge bug 2339056 "KompoZer crashes with GTK 2.14" [Pri: 9,Open]
<dholbach> the duplicates talk quite a bit about "drop down menu" and "submenu", etc
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: That is the suspicion, yes.
<dholbach> kompozer does not seem very active
<dholbach> the last checkin in SVN is 14 months old
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, although he seems to be doing something outside of that SVN repo
<dholbach> great :)
<didrocks> morning o/
<ScottK> sebner: Congratulations.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: please see my comment on your blog, if you haven't already
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I did - I was just busy with a few other things
<dholbach> Hobbsee: you could have just sent it out yourself :-)))
<dholbach> but I'll do it in a bit
<dholbach> thanks for the headsup
<Hobbsee> dholbach: keybuk's mails have been BCCd, it appears.
<Hobbsee> else I probably would have
<dholbach> ubuntu-devel@ is the best I can do
<dholbach> I'm not going to dig out all the email addresses of the participants
 * Hobbsee wonders what list he was using
<Hobbsee> guess he's still on leave.
<dholbach> *nod*
<dholbach> he probably dug the out from LP or something
 * dholbach shrugs
<_ruben> wrt bug #278711 .. what would be a sane expectation as to when the package, which is now in -proposed, is to hit -updates?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278711 in open-vm-tools "open-vm-source doesn't build" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278711
<slytherin> _ruben: When there are two acks that the package in proposed fixed the bug without introducing any regressions.
<_ruben> slytherin: ic
<_ruben> would such acks show up in the bugreport or somewhere else?
<aftertaf> hey :)
<aftertaf> whats the forum for the kubuntu developers?
<aftertaf> tried#kubuntu-dev but not that !!
<iulian> aftertaf: You mean channel?
<aftertaf> yeah :)
<iulian> It's #kubuntu-devel
<aftertaf> forum: pfffff !
<aftertaf> thx
<aftertaf> see if any project-neon people around ... ;)
<aftertaf> for 4.2
<aftertaf> kde
 * iulian -> school
<iulian> Later!
<james_w> congratulations sebner
<directhex> ?
<directhex> oh
<sebner> james_w: oh thx
<directhex> someone new to bully r.e. mono! ^_^
<sebner> directhex: \o/
<mok0> sebner, who triggered it :-)
<sebner> mok0: you? :P
<mok0> Who knows?
<nhandler> sebner: Congrats on becoming a MOTU!
<mok0> sebner: congrats!!
 * sebner thanks the man under the rock
<sebner> nhandler: thx  :) you are next :D
<nhandler> sebner: Hopefully ;)
<sebner> nhandler: without doubts ;)
 * sebner hugs mok0 
 * mok0 hugs back
<laga> sebner: congrats!
<sebner> laga: thx thx thx
<morgs> I have a packaging question: My orig source includes Makefile.am and Makefile.in (generated by autogen.sh). I have a patch to apply, which patches Makefile.am. The package uses cdbs. The patch is applied, but Makefile.in isn't modified.
<morgs> Do I (a) make another patch to patch Makefile.in, or (b) is there some trick to regenerate it?
<azeem> automake generates Makefile.in from Makefile.am
<azeem> whether or not you include that as a patch, or run automake during the build process is a matter of taste I think
<azeem> not sure, maybe Ubuntu has some policy on this
<morgs> How do I run automake in the build process?
<azeem> like any other program you would run in the build process
<azeem> I'm not sure what the best practise WRT CDBS is, though
<azeem> so maybe it is easier to just include a patch for Makefile.in as well
<morgs> azeem: thanks
<sebner> hi geser =)
<emgent> sebner: congrats :)
<sebner> eMerzh: oh, thx to you :)
<sebner> argh
<sebner> to emgent of course ;)
<eMerzh> sebner: you're welcome :D :D
<sebner> hrhr
<eMerzh> if someone want to review my package .. feel free to comment or advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman :)
<iulian> Hey sebner, congratulations. Make Ubuntu rock even better.
<sebner> iulian: thx, you too. We count on you :)
<sebner> iulian: Can I take libunique from you to make my first upload? ^^
<iulian> sebner: Sure, go ahead.
<sebner> iulian: thx =)
<bugfixes> hello anyone!
<RainCT> hi
 * RainCT grumbles something about that having a manpage should be a requisite for all executables in main :P
<bugfixes> :) I would like to find some here to review a package I have been build
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sebner, congrats!
<sebner> bddebian: ah, thank you :)
<iulian> 'ey bddebian.
<bddebian> Hello iulian
<nixternal> where can I find the multidistrotools source?
<nixternal> nevermind, found it
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<mok0> what's up (down) with http://wiki.kubuntu.org ??
<pochu> sebner: congratulations! \o/
<kiko> hey
<kiko> anyone seen fabien tassin?
<kiko> aka fta
<pochu> kiko: he's on the channel as fta_ :)
<kiko> fta_!
<kiko> of course. tab completion ftw
<pochu> :-)
<kiko> idle 7h
<kiko> well, I'm a patient man
<hyperair> blargh. some wise guy put Makefile.in in DISTCLEANFILES in Makefile.am. now debian/rules clean whacks out Makefile.in and build fails. what should i do?
<Laney> patch it out?
<sebner> pochu: thx \o/ :)
<jpds> sebner: Herzlichen GlÃ¼ckwunsch.
<jpds> ...or whatever you say.
<sebner> jpds: danke :) *thumbs up*
<hyperair> Laney: patch it out how? all the debian/patches-style patch systems don't manage to get to it
<hyperair> Laney: i need that particular line out of Makefile.am before debuild is called
<hyperair> because debuild does a debian/rules clean first, and that clobbers my Makefile.in
<fta> kiko, hi
<fta> <kiko> idle 7h <= yeah, i have a job, and a life outside of ubuntu :)
<jpds> !lies | fta
<ubottu> fta: Mostly just statistics and mc44, but yeah.
<pochu> life? what's that? :)
<jpds> Err.
<sebner> pochu: good question. /me has to answer such an interview question =)
<kiko> fta, yeah, me too :)
<fta> kiko, you wanted something from me?
<kiko> fta, yes. songbird 1.0. :)
<kiko> you run my favorite ppa
<kiko> but songbird is still MIA!!
<sebner> fta: do you plan to upload it to the archive one day?
<kiko> fta, I have t-shirts and dvds here for a songbird 1.0 in a ppa.. ;)
<fta> kiko, yep, i was waiting for the cvs tag, upstream just sent it to me a few hours ago. I'll do it shortly.
<kiko> fta, woo! when it's up there drop me a line and I'll send you some swag, kiko@canonical.com
 * kiko goes off to rejoice
<fta> kiko, sure. and.. nice, thanks :)
<radix> Hey all, can anyone tell me when binary:Version was introduced? I have to figure out which ubuntu distros I should use it in
<ScottK> radix: All except Dapper.
<ScottK> YokoZar: Thought you might find this interesting http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/12/02/iphone-review-from-a-free-software-guy/
<bddebian> Anyone know who Andrew Starr-Bochicchio is?
<ScottK> bddebian: I think asomething (not currently here).
<bddebian> ScottK: Thanks.  Know anything about burn? :)
<radix> ScottK: oh, thanks a lot
<pochu> bddebian: the drink? ;)
<bddebian> pochu: Heh.  No, the package.  He changed the depends but the burn.conf still has /usr/bin/cdrdao and /usr/bin/mkisofs even though they were replaced with cdrecord and genisoimage respectively
<ScottK> bddebian: No and I intend to keep it that way.
<bddebian> ScottK: :)
<pochu> bddebian: that sounds like a bug, indeed :-)
<YokoZar> ScottK: Thanks.  Making the iPhone (and later iPods) work in Wine was listed as one of the things that would prompt Wine to start the stabilization process and make another release.  What's needed is full support for arbitrary USB drivers, basically.
<YokoZar> ScottK: older ipods worked just as memory sticks, more or less, so getting iTunes to talk to them was easy
<ScottK> YokoZar: So which iTunes works with Intrepid's Wine then?
<YokoZar> ScottK: 7.x works mostly well with older iPods.  8 crashes for a different reason.
<ScottK> YokoZar: Does 'older' ~ works with Win2K and 'newer' ~ needs XP?
<ScottK> YokoZar: Do you know some decent HowTo for Wine/iTunes on Intrepid I can hand my not terribly technical teenager and say "If you want iTunes, go for it."?
<YokoZar> ScottK: the howto is "go to oldversion.com and find iTunes 7, double click installer"
<YokoZar> ScottK: As for which iPods exactly, I'm not sure
<ScottK> OK.  Well one of two teenagers here has one I'm sure qualifies as 'old'.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<YokoZar> I'm actually still trying to figure out the best iPod solution for my girlfriend at the moment.  She has a newish one that doesn't work with iTunes, but does work with Banshee...sort of.  No playlists can be put on the thing I think.
<ScottK> YokoZar: I have what I think is a nano and it works with Amarok really well.
<YokoZar> I'm not quite sure I want to subject her to amarok yet on the netbook remix
<geser> I use gtkpod to upload music to my Ipod
<pochu> you can use rhythmbox with ipods too
<pochu> and it works quite fine
<sebner> pochu: and amarok :P
<pochu> but I'm a GNOME guy :-)
<pochu> but I have to admit amarok rocked when I used it (about 2 or 3 years ago) :)
<sebner> pochu: me too but amarok is amarok ;)
<meoblast001> hi
<CarlFK> apt-get source blender creates a dir: blender-2.46+dfsg/  (good.) Using python-apt, how can I predict what that dir name will be?
<CarlFK> and where is the right place for python-apt questions? (cuz this isn't really it...)
<CarlFK> more on topic: what should I do about this: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Build conflicts: nvidia-glx
<pochu> CarlFK: remove it if you want to build the package :)
<pochu> CarlFK: not sure if there's an Ubuntu channel, but there seems to be #debian-apt on OFTC
<CarlFK> pochu: why would it interfere with building?
<CarlFK> what's oftc?
<pochu> no idea, but somebody put that build-conflict, probably for a good reason
<pochu> you could look at debian/changelog if that's mentioned
<pochu> CarlFK: it's another IRC network, just like Freenode
<CarlFK> good idea..
<CarlFK> oh look, I am connected to oftc.net,,
<CarlFK> hdh - and now there are 3 of us in ï»¿#debian-apt ;)
<pochu> heh
<CarlFK> "Added a Build-Conflicts against nvidia-glx. When trying to build with that     package installed, a ``-lGL not found otherwise'' occurs, and without it,     everything looks fine. "
<CarlFK> i'm not sure that qualifies as 'good' :)
<pochu> sounds like a workaround :)
<CarlFK> I am building using the native build process (scons) - will see if it has any issues
<eMerzh> someone to review my package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman )?
<CarlFK> pochu: the rest of that blender/readme on nvidia: " That should also avoid situations like in #282071     and #285946."
<CarlFK> what system do those #numbers apply to?
<pochu> bugs.debian.org, I guess
<CarlFK> thanks
<pochu> np :)
<CarlFK> huh - "Please never ever build your opengl based packages with nvidia-glx package installed. That's what causes these problems.  "http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=282071
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Debian bugtracker: global name 'ls' is not defined (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=282071;mbox=yes)
<CarlFK> heh
<directhex> who's good at watchfiles?
<ScottK> directhex: They aren't so hard.  You've looked at man uscan?
<directhex> ScottK, mangle semantics are confusing me. i can blame the booze, of course
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-03
<directhex> hm. this isn't technically correct, but does the job ( i hope)
<fta> kiko, I'm done with songbird 1.0.0 but apparently, there's an issue with the ppa builders so cprov killed my builds. I have no way to investigate as locally, it's all fine.
<ScottK> If a package has a substantially larger popcon than the sum of the popcon of all it's rdepends, would that be a reason to think people are using it with something unpackaged?
<ScottK> I came up dry using Google.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: or popcon is on crack.  But yes, i'd sya that's probably a reasonable assumption
<Hobbsee> popcon doesn't do partial reporting, afaik, so i presume that's the only solution
<ajmitch> ScottK: that's not such a problem though, is it?
<ajmitch> if you need to change something about the package (say the ABI), it it breaks 3rd party stuff, how were you to know?
<ScottK> ajmitch: It's not a problem, but something accounting for ~200 popcon in Debian that's not packaged might be worth packaging.
<ajmitch> trying to identify what that thing is will be fun
<ScottK> I'd like to know what it is.
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> If someone is bored, the package in question is python-dns.
<ScottK> Not something you're likely to install directly.
<ajmitch> so it's either something unpackaged, or people are installing it directly to actually use the module in something they've written
<kiko> fta, hmm, I'll ping cprov to figure out what's up
<ajmitch> ScottK: funnily enough, I'm one of the latter
<Hobbsee> ScottK: blog about it, and ask?
<ScottK> ajmitch: You installed it directly?
<ajmitch> it appears so
<ScottK> Hobbsee: That might work.
<ScottK> Odd.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: planet's always good for those sorts of things
<ScottK> Yeah.
 * ajmitch does have python-formencode installed, by the look of things
<ajmitch> but I think I did actually look at using python-dns directly
<ScottK> python-formencode is it's largest (by popcon) rdepend.
<ajmitch> not surprising
<ajmitch> since python-turbogears & python-pylons use it
<ScottK> Ah.  Makes sense.
<st33med> Has anybody made the closed source version of Virtual Box available on multiverse?
<stdin> can the binary be distributed freely?
<st33med> Yep
<st33med> http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads
<st33med> Wait
<DarkKnight> hey i m a newbie...and wanted to be on the MOTU team....i read the wiki page...but there are certain things that i didnt understand
<st33med> Does accepting a license count as free?
<st33med> Say em DarkKnight, might be a while for someone to reply
<DarkKnight> ya i just wished to be one of the developers in ubuntu...
<DarkKnight> so wen i referred the wiki page....
<ajmitch> st33med: http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Licensing_FAQ has a fairly clear no on redistribution of binaries
<DarkKnight> it said that i had to file a bug or something
<stdin> yep FAQ 7 says no
<st33med> Ah
<DarkKnight> to which i did
<Hobbsee> st33med: note all of virtualbox-ose, virtualbox-ose-dbg, virtualbox-ose-source, virtualbox-ose-guest-source, virtualbox-ose-guest-utils
<st33med> Yah
<Hobbsee> and perhaps a couple of others
<Hobbsee> (which are in universe)
<st33med> OSE doesn't have USB support, which kinda sucks
<stdin> one could, theoretically, do what is done with flash
<stdin> ie, create a package which downloads it from their website
<DarkKnight> so can anyone tell me where i can getgood info about compiling  packages
<stdin> but that'd require running dpkg inside a dpkg run, so it's bad
<stdin> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<stdin> and..
<stdin> !compiling
<ubottu> Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first)
<Hobbsee> stdin: or one could just use the repositories from virtualbox.org, which also work reasonably well ;)
<stdin> yeah, much easier. which is probably why no one has ever tried to create such a package
<Hobbsee> stdin: well, the OSE versions are already there, so...
<st33med> And anyone who has heard of it most likely visited the website too
<st33med> So yah.
<nellery> is there any way to run debuild without getting the DebianMaintainerField error?
 * ScottK-laptop starts to wonder if this thing is actually on?
<leonel> scottK ping
<ScottK> leonel: pong
<leonel> scottK for the  jpeg  the code has changed
<leonel> scottK in  special.c  the patch applies fine
<leonel> but there are   structs  changes  for example  maxreclevel  in   0.92.1  is in cl_limits  and  in 0.94  has been moved to  cl_engine
<ScottK> leonel: Right.  So does that mean the patch needs to be adapted?
<leonel> I think so
<leonel> and  in the svn from clamav
<leonel> the  changelog for the 1266 clamav bug
<leonel> does not shows the changes  in  others.h or  in clamav.h  for that change
<leonel> so I guess I'll first find an exploit for the code  test it  and if  is vulnerable  try to adapt the code
<leonel> as you asked previously that if 0.92.1 is vulnerable
<ScottK-laptop> leonel: My guess is that unless you find some kind of recursion limit in special.c it's vulnerable, but that sounds good.
<leonel> ScottK-laptop: if(ctx->recursion > ctx->engine->maxreclevel)
<leonel>   	            return CL_EMAXREC;
<leonel>  those and another reference is there
<leonel> but the maxreclevel is on another  struct
<leonel> in 0.92.1
<leonel> got to go  I'll continue  tomorrow  morning
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> leonel: Thanks for working on this.  I know it's not simple.
<leonel> scottK   this must get fixed .. see you tomorrow
<aib> i'm interested in packaging our software and having it included in ubuntu. is this possible? our software is called Emergent and we have been running our own ubuntu repository for years. http://grey.colorado.edu/emergent
<ScottK-laptop> aib: If it's got an appropriate license the answer is generally yes.
<aib> GPL
<aib> where do I start?
<ScottK-laptop> aib: You have experience with Debian packaging then?
<aib> extensive
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  Ubuntu essentially follows Debian policy with some minor variations.
<ScottK-laptop> Initial revision for a package not in Debian would be -0ubuntu1.
<ScottK-laptop> Upload target would be jaunty instead of unstable
<jdong> "copyright" 599L, 19060C written
<jdong> whee :)
<aib> ok, supposing i follow the debian new maintainers guide with the ubuntu modifications, what do i then do with my package?
<aib> is there a doc describing this? i haven't found one yet
<ScottK-laptop> !revu | aib
<ubottu> aib: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ScottK-laptop> aib: We also have some special rules about Maintainer.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<ScottK-laptop> And finally:
<kees> ah, crap, leonel went offline
<ScottK-laptop> !packagingguide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<kees> I have the PoC for the JPEG crash -- added it to the clamav test
<ScottK-laptop> kees: He'll be back in the morning.
<ScottK-laptop> Cool.
<ScottK-laptop> kees: Debian needs to patch Etch, can I offer it to them?
<aib> ScottK-laptop, thank you very much
<ScottK-laptop> kees: Or you could just join #debian-clamav on OFTC and offer it yourself ...
<kees> ScottK-laptop: yeah, totally, it's in the upstream bug report: https://wwws.clamav.net/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1266
<ubottu> wwws.clamav.net bug 1266 in libclamav "recursive stack overflow in jpeg parsing code" [Security,Resolved: fixed]
<ScottK-laptop> kees:
<ScottK-laptop> OK.
<ScottK-laptop> Recursion is fun.
<ScottK-laptop> aib: You're welcome.  Thank you for showing up and wanting to contribute to Ubuntu.
<ScottK-laptop> kees: sgran is almost certainly asleep right now, but he does read the scrollback.
<kees> ScottK-laptop: looks like hardy isn't vulnerable to it
<kees> (intrepid was, prior to the patch)
<ScottK-laptop> kees: That's what leonel was trying to figure out when he ran out of steam.
<ScottK-laptop> kees: Is it not vulnerable or not vulnerable if MaxRecursionLimit (or something similar) is set to a sane value.
<kees> ScottK-laptop: oh, good point.
<kees> ScottK-laptop: well, I guess I should say "stock install of" ...
<aib> i recently ported our software from autotools to cmake as KDE did - has anyone packaged cmake-based software? does their debian generator create standard compliant packages?
<ScottK-laptop> aib: All the KDE4 packages in Intrepid and Jaunty are cmake.
<aib> as in, `make deb' packages? that would be wonderful but i really doubt it:)
<ScottK-laptop> No, not that simple.
<ScottK-laptop> Most of the Kubuntu devs are in Europe, so this is not the best time of day, but you can discuss cmake stuff here or in #kubuntu-devel.
<ScottK-laptop> Good night all.
<ScottK-laptop> aib: You can ask questions here as you have them.  Generally someone here can/will answer.
<Hobbsee> night ScottK-laptop
<Hobbsee> james_w: wow, that went quickly!
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> dholbach: how are you doing this morning ! :-)
<fabrice_sp> ?
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: I'm slowly waking up, but I'm good - also very excited about meeting people at UDS
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: how are you?
<fabrice_sp> fine also, thanks! Preparing for going to work :-)
<fabrice_sp> UDS will be huge! :-)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: have a great day!
<fabrice_sp> also for you :-)
<slytherin> is there any set timeline for a package to get cleared from NEW queue?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: not as such
<Hobbsee> slytherin: people do have archive days
<Hobbsee> but UDS will throw that out, and there are a lot in the queue (and it's not necessarily FIFO)
<Hobbsee> which package, and do you need it for something else?
<geser> good morning
<slytherin> Hobbsee: libhibernate3-java, and I need it to clear at least 3 more DEPWAIT.
<slytherin> geser: good morning.
<geser> Hi slytherin
<iulian> G'morning.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: k
<slytherin> geser: Just FYI ... if we need to move the jboss related packages to universe, they will all need to be moved together.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: what do you need given back?
<slytherin> Hobbsee: I will do it myself thanks. :-)
<Hobbsee> slytherin: you can?  OK.
<Hobbsee> 20 left.  obviously it's getting helped along reasonably quickly
<didrocks> morning & Danke SchÃ¶ne dholbach :)
<dholbach> didrocks: :)
<slytherin> Hobbsee: I didn't need to give back any packages. they were automatically rebuilt.
<eMerzh> someone has time to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ? thaaaaanks a lot :)
<monomanta> hello... can we haz ScummVM version bump in repositories PLZ?
<monomanta> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scummvm/+bug/291591
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 291591 in scummvm "new upstream version - ScummVM 0.12.0" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<directhex> coo, scummvm
<monomanta> coo?
<bmm> I'm online for comments on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink thanks in advance!
<slytherin> Hobbsee: ping
<slytherin> geser: Do you mind if I go ahead today with libjogl-java merge? We will sync with Debian once the package in experimental is moved to unstable.
<ScottK> slytherin: Why not sync from Experimental?
<slytherin> ScottK: Because it is in experimental. :-) And I don't know the reasons.
<ScottK> slytherin: OK.  Sounds reasonable.
<directhex> moonlight 1.0~beta1 packages ready ^_^
<slytherin> ScottK: Current merge will help us move package to universe (license change). Where as if we do a sync from experimental it may solve FTBFS on Sparc. But considering that Sparc is not officially supported architecture I don't think sync is urgent.
 * apachelogger waits for JontheEchidna to say "hi" :P
<JontheEchidna> aib: Hello there, I heard you needed some assistance with a package using cmake?
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: He's also two hours west of us, so I'm guessing still sleeping.
<JontheEchidna> makes sense
<geser> slytherin: no, I don't mind, go ahead (I'm currently too busy to do it myself)
<slytherin> geser: Ok.
<slytherin> geser: By the way, now there are only 3 packages (2 in NEW, 1 in DEPWAIT) that need to be available to check if jboss from Debian builds or not.
<geser> does the one in DEPWAIT wait on one of those in NEW?
<slytherin> geser: yes it does.
<slytherin> geser: the package in DEPWAIT is - libhibernate-entitymanager-java, depends on libhibernate-annotations-java which is in NEW
<handschuh> isnt libhibernate-annotations-java supposed to be libhibernate-commons-annotations-java ?
<slytherin> handschuh: those are two different packages. rmadison is your friend. :-)
<handschuh> slytherin: ok .. thanks quite confusing .. the package is somehow bad, I think
<slytherin> handschuh: I am not concerned about shape of package at this point. Only getting them built. :-)
<lod__> hello, I have a Q.; I'm maintaining custom kernel with IMQ patch for QoS, and using the guide at wiki.ubuntu.com for building custom kernel, but can't find where to change revision numbers for builded kernel, I've looked at debian/rules but can't find it..
<dholbach> lod__: try #ubuntu-kernel
<lod__> 10x
<invaleed> Hallo
<allquixotic> Hello MOTUs: I am looking to do an SRU for Intrepid, and have followed the process up to the point where I am requesting the release team to evaluate the report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libshout/+bug/304843
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 304843 in libshout "SRU Request: libshout3 in intrepid" [Undecided,New]
<jdong> allquixotic: that's a main package; you want to subscribe the 'ubuntu-sru' team
<jdong> and #ubuntu-devel would be the correct channel to poke if poking were deemed to be necessary
<allquixotic> How would I go about subscribing the ubuntu-sru team?
<allquixotic> "subscribe someone else"?
<allquixotic> nevermind, I've done it.
<jdong> cool.
<jdong> would someone like to speculate why Phoronix benchmarked ext4 using 4 synthetic FS tools and 12 CPU-bound tasks, such as 3D game FPSes?
<jdong> I'm not sure Michael understands that ext4 doesn't run on video cards...
<directhex> jdong, michael, bless his little cotton socks, doesn't really get benchmarking
<directhex> and i say this despite his test suite being a very clever framework (written in php (!))
<jdong> directhex: I think one thing that it DOES show is the variance in his tests
<directhex> yes
<jdong> directhex: for some reason his gnupg test showed more than 5% difference in performance between the 4 filesystems.
<jdong> judging from that I'd consider anything less than a 20% difference in his tests to be statistically insignificant
<directhex> jdong, but even when doing a 3d card, he benchmarks ancient games which are ~100% cpu bound on a modern card
<jdong> directhex: he also failed to identify even the most basic behavioral characteristics of the 4 filesystems he teste
<jdong> d
<jdong> i.e. he failed to notice XFS takes 20-200x longer than ext3 and reiserfs respectively to rm -rf a kernel source tree.
<directhex> let's not make this a bitching session - but i feel phoronix's benchmarking criteria have always been a little strange
<jdong> or that XFS deletes a single 1TB file 20x faster than ext3...
<directhex> jdong, running mythtv means you just knows these things instinctively ;)
<jdong> directhex: maybe phoronix should run a mythbuntu vs ubuntu 7-zip benchmark.
<directhex> jdong, you mock, but.....
 * jdong wonders how on earth LZMA compression differed by 4-8 seconds doing a single-file using the 4 different FSes...
<jdong> bless his soul for taking all this time to benchmark stuff; I'm not trying to rag on him or discredit his work....
<jdong> just this clearly demonstrates more than ever that his results need to be taken with scrutiny.
<jorgenpt> jdong: 4-8 seconds to a total of .. what?
<jdong> 320 seconds or so
<jorgenpt> jdong: Representing that as a percentage is much more telling. :-)
<jdong> about 1-2% variation
<jdong> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ext4_benchmarks&num=7
<jdong> more frightening is the last benchmark there
<jdong> GNUPG of a 2GB file
<jdong> ext3 and ext4 difered by 11 seconds (more than 10%)
<jdong> I don't know what settings he used, but on my system GPG for a 2GB file is somewhat CPU-bound...
<directhex> jdong, thing is, benchmarking is BORING. it's not as if a little game of quake4 whilst the bench runs matters, right? that's what multi-core is FOR!
<rjune> LOL
<jdong> ffmpeg also showed a 7% variation for MPEG2 encoding between ext3 and ext4
<jdong> I also find that extremely hard to believe
<directhex> right, that's my coffee finished. to the motorway!
<jdong> ffmpeg's mpeg2 encoder at times is slower than its MPEG4-ASP encoder
<RainCT> Is there a PPA or something to try ext4 on Intrepid?
<jdong> RainCT: I've got a HOWTO.
<RainCT> jdong: cool, URL?
<jdong> digging :)
<jdong> RainCT: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=973701
<jdong> RainCT: FWIW I've been intensively running two systems with ext4dev on stock Intrepid kernels and have not experienced any disk issues YET
<jdong> I think it's a *better* idea to grab the ext4 2.6.27 patchset from tytso's kernel.org directory
<jdong> but even without it, I'm noticing dramatically better concurrent IO performance, fragmentation behavior, and REALLY IMPROVED small-file-deletion performance using ext4 compared to ext3
<hyperair> i wonder how much difference it'd make if you're using ext3 vs ext4 on top of dm-crypt
<psusi> jdong: you know I found out recently while working on the defrag package that fsck considers just about any file over 44k to be non-contiguous in it's little report, since any file over that size will have an indirect block which normally would follow the 11th data block
<jdong> psusi: not surprised; I measure fragmentation by cold-read throughput
<RainCT> jdong: "a better idea" as in it will be faster or as in your computer may not explode? :P
<jdong> RainCT: it will be faster and one or two unmount-time potential oopses are fixed.
<jdong> RainCT: there is a notable patch that reduces fragmentation in extent allocation behavior
<RainCT> alright
<jdong> IIRC, for a 4GB fedora torrent limited to 200KB/s download speed, the readback on ext3 went at 8MB/s while on ext4 it went at 25MB/s
<jdong> disk is capable of 40MB/s sequential sustained
<jdong> on XFS it was shockingly close to that 40MB/s number, upper 30's IIRC
<jdong> no preallocation of any type was used
<psusi> wow, I was going to say neither ext3 nor 4 look good there then
<jdong> psusi: well ext4 is looking *BETTER* and this is without the aforementioned ext4 extent patch
<psusi> yea, but even 25 sounds not good
<RainCT> jdong: I guess the "turn on not backwards-compatible stuff" point is optional?
<psusi> well, not turning on the new features would kind of defeat the point wouldn't it?
<RainCT> Well, I think I'll wait. I have / and /boot together, and don't want to mess with the /home partition :P
<RainCT> jdong: btw, nice forum sig :P
 * invaleed is away (Please give me hug)
<eMerzh> Any volonteers to review my package at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ?  it was previously advocated by DktrKranz ...
<hefe_bia> jdong: On the ext4 topic: Is the info on volid vs. blkid from http://ext4.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Ext4_Howto still valid or valid at all? Is this a problem in real usage?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<slytherin> somebody please help. What host do I need to use with dput to upload to Ubuntu archives?
<Laney> slytherin: upload.ubuntu.com
<Laney> afaik
<jmarsden|work> dput -H lists the hosts...
<Laney> slytherin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New
<ScottK> slytherin: In the default Ubuntu config for dput you shouldn't need to list a host.
<slytherin> Laney: Thanks for link.
<slytherin> ScottK: got that after reading that wiki page. :-)
<ScottK> slytherin: Personally I change that to make sure I have to do dput ubuntu to get to the official archive (I once accidentally uploaded a package intended for a PPA to the archive - and it was in Main and it was during a freeze).
<slytherin> ScottK: thanks for advice. I will be careful.
<Laney> well at least it was during a freeze
<iulian> Hiya bddebian.
<bddebian> Hello iulian
<ScottK> Laney: No,  It was a 'soft freeze'.  One of the 'please don't upload' ones.
<Laney> Oh, that's bad then
<ScottK> Yes.  So I'm very careful now.
<jdong> ScottK: I do the same
<ScottK> By default my dput uploads to a non-existent repo called 'bob'
<jdong> my default dput target is invalid
<ScottK> If you just unset the target it defaults to Debian ftp-master.
 * ScottK uploaded there by mistake too.
 * ScottK had to hunt down a DD to do dcut for him.
<ScottK> Thus I upload to bob.
<bmm> Request for comments: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink
<Aquina> hy
<Aquina> Can you please update the Cherokee webserver to its latest version 0.11.x in synaptic?
<Aquina> I'm running Xubuntu 8.04. HH and the software availale is of version 0.5.x
<handschuh> slytherin: ping
<ScottK> !backports | Aquina
<ubottu> Aquina: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<Milyardo> <3 ubottu
<directhex> hm
 * directhex summons a vote
<laga> ka-ching
<directhex> moon apparently requires cairo 1.8. not a debian problem, but i was hoping for syncability
<directhex> do i target experimental (which has it) or make the package build its own static cairo?
<directhex> or something else?
<pochu> directhex: are you sure you are on the right channel? :)
<directhex> pochu, sure. the syncability question matters!
<directhex> pochu, or if not, what solution? OOo-style synamic control building?
<pochu> directhex: ok, if you can upload to experimental and keep it syncable, I'd go for that
<pochu> it won't hit testing anyway ;)
 * directhex gives his sponsor the word
<RAOF> directhex: Yeah.  Sync from experimental!
<Laney> Can anyone spot a problem with this: pbuilder-sid create --othermirror "deb ftp://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian experimental main contrib non-free" - I get "E: Malformed line 1 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list (URI)"
<mok0> Laney: looks sane to me. Perhaps it's another line
<Laney> Maybe I'll use pbuilder directly
 * Laney smites it
<RAOF> You've aware that you can just do a pbuilder-experimental create, right?
<mok0> Laney: use cowbuilder!
<Laney> RAOF: I was not.
<RAOF> Experimental is a supported dist for pbuilder-dist; it pulls in sid + experimental.
<mok0> cowbuilder is much faster than pbuilder
<Laney> RAOF: I'm using pbuilder-dist.new. Let's see if it likes that
 * mok0 feels ignored
<Laney> mok0: Sorry, I'm not ignoring you. It's just that RAOF is giving me answers that don't require me to learn a new tool :P
<mok0> :-) It's more-or-less the same
<Laney> is there a cowbuilder-dist?
<Laney> "Warning: Unknown distribution Â«experimentalÂ»."
<Laney> but it still seems to be doing ok
<mok0> Laney: except cowbuilder doesn't need to unpack the tar archive first
<Laney> Oh, yeah that takes a couple of seconds
<mok0> Laney: it uses a create-on-write filesystem
<RAOF> Can you make cowdancer build on a tmpfs?
<Laney> mok0: Does it implement pbuilder's interface, roughly?
<mok0> RAOF: I haven't tried
<Laney> Oh, that's the point of cowbuilder. I see.
<mok0> Laney: yes, it's almost the same, except for one option
<mok0> Laney: you need to specify --base-dir instead of --base-tgz
<RAOF> Because that's the biggest pbuilder optimisation I've seen.  As long as I don't try to build something that saps too much memory ;).
<Laney> I should get around to fixing my schroots to use a local apt cache.
 * RAOF used squid for that.
<RAOF> Cool.  So, xserver-xorg-video-nouveau builds (and works) with unmodified Jaunty libdrm.
<mok0> http://wiki.debian.org/cowbuilder
<mok0> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CowdancerHowto
<RAOF> Time to update experimental's nouveau snapshot, polish the dkms nouveau-kernel package, and get some review.
<ajmitch> RAOF: great, is it useful?
<Laney> mok0: Maybe you could port pbuilder-dist{.new} in ubuntu-dev-tools to cowbuilder? ;)
<Laney> {,.new}*
<RAOF> ajmitch: Depends on what you want.  If you want 3d, no.  If you want fast, featureful 2d, yes.
<ajmitch> RAOF: of course I need 3D :)
<mok0> Laney: It wouldn't be a huge project... I've just made my own little script
<Laney> I imagine it would mostly be s/pbuilder/cowbuilder/
<mok0> Laney: yeah
<RAOF> ajmitch: Nouveau's 3d got merged into the main mesa repository, so it's getting a little more love; you could try that :)
<Laney> RAOF: pbuilder-experimental works. Win!
<mok0> \O//
<mok0> Have any of you tried adopting an orphaned Debian package?
<ajmitch> RAOF: so in 12 months I can play WoW? :)
<RAOF> Concievably ;)
<ajmitch> I expect there'll still be a lot of work to do
<RAOF> In 12 months time?  Probably.
<RAOF> Gah.  New mesa won't build because we don't enable dri2 in X.
<RAOF> Or maybe because we have an obsolete dri2-proto.  Who knows.
<quadrispro> hi RainCT
<mok0> heh, I did it...
 * ScottK-laptop wonders if he should ask ...
 * handschuh nods
<Laney> Gah
<Laney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/80042/ <- when doing pbuilder-experimental create
 * Laney headdesks
<Laney> directhex: How do you testbuild mono stuff? :(
<RAOF> Laney: Hm.  Mine Just Worked(tm).  I don't suppose sid+experimental is broken atm?
<Laney> I guess so
<directhex> Laney, test things in experimental? i had to tweak my pbuilder to pin experimental to the same as sid
<Hobbsee> slytherin: contentless pong?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: and cool
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-04
<FAJ> hi, i am trying to set up a ppa, but am having difficulties with signing the ubuntu code of conduct...  it says that there is no public key?
<Hobbsee> again, try #launchpad
<FAJ> lol ;) ok thanks
<Hobbsee> oh, and patience, and cross-posting is bad
<FAJ> Hobbsee:  i read the topic of devel and thought that it would be more appropriate to ask in here.
<Hobbsee> FAJ: ahhh.
<FAJ> ya...
<FAJ> i was like o you want me in here?  ok i'll go there and post
<psusi> anyone else notice a rash of updated packages today that don't look like they should have been ( not security fixes or other high priority big fixes )?
<psusi> in Intrepid that is
<psusi> I thought only high priority bug fixes were supposed to get into -updates as an SRU?
<james_w> psusi: have an example?
<persia> psusi, Everything should have been approved by one of the SRU teams.  Check the bugs in the changelogs.
<james_w> they should all be approved by the appropriate SRU team
<james_w> hello persia
<psusi> I'm looking at some.... right now I'm looking at the splix package, which fixed bug #292690, which is not a high priority bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292690 in splix "Garbage bitmaps printed on left margin in ubuntu testpage on A4 on Samsung printers" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292690
<persia> james_w, Hey.
<james_w> persia: how was your holiday?
<psusi> hrm... maybe it just never had its priority field set properly but was supposed to be high priority now that I read into it a bit
<persia> james_w, It's been good so far.  I've a bit left, but with bandwidth now find that I'm not really as away as I was previously.
<james_w> persia: well then, close IRC :-)
<james_w> persia: are you in SF now?
 * psusi needs to read up more on the SRU process I guess
<persia> james_w, heh.  Well, as long as I've bandwidth, I may as well be around.  I am in SF now.
<james_w> persia: excellent, I will see you in...some hours then
<james_w> tomorrow I guess
<persia> Cool.
<ScottK> Note that regressions need not be high severity to merit SRU.
<tonyyarusso> Say, is the "404: Not found" error in flashplugin-nonfree in 8.04 new, or has it been like that for a while?
<Hobbsee> have adobe updated their stuff again, then?
<tonyyarusso> It would appear so.
<Hobbsee> needs another SRU, then!
<tonyyarusso> aroo?
<tonyyarusso> They offer a .deb for Ubuntu 8.04+ on the web site.  Didn't know that.
<tonyyarusso> Oh, I think I know why it's broken.
<ScottK-laptop> tonyyarusso: Because it's flash?
<tonyyarusso> The url is get/flashplayer/current/install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz, but Flash 9 is no longer current.  Flash 10 is.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK-laptop: that too :)
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: For an SRU, would we need to find where they hid 9, or would 8.04 get upgraded to 10?
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: not sure.
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: Shall I just file a genericish bug against the package and let someone else figure it out then?
<ScottK-laptop> Dapper still has Flash 7 or 8, IIRC.
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: well, the obvious answer is "find who usually uploads the package, and if it's the same person all the time, ask them what they want done"
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: try fta / crimsun, as they've uploaded the last few
<Hobbsee> but if you don't get an answer that way, and there's no existing bug, file one
<tonyyarusso> stupid adobe
<AnAnt> superm1: Hello
<superm1> hi AnAnt
<superm1> i believe you've pinged me a bunch during my holiday
<AnAnt> superm1: yeah
<superm1> i recall sponsoring your package shortly before i left though?
<superm1> did something else come up with it?
<AnAnt> superm1: I didn't know that it got sponsored (because I forgot to put an LP: #nnnn) !
<AnAnt> silly me
<superm1> AnAnt, oh and silly me for not catching that! :)
<AnAnt> superm1: anyways, I saw dkms today on mentors.debian.net
<AnAnt> superm1: I wonder if you know anything about it
<AnAnt> superm1: I saw your replies on the ITP too
<superm1> AnAnt, ah that's spectacular to hear. there was a discussion that got stirred up on debian devel a few months ago to bring it in
<superm1> but i fizzled out and i'm not sure the end result
<superm1> do you have a link to the upload to mentors?  i'm hoping it was the same fellow that uploaded it there.  dont want to start seeing things pulled in different directions
<AnAnt> superm1: yeah, same guy who filed the ITP that you replied at
<AnAnt> http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=dkms
<superm1> okay very good
<superm1> wonder why it took so long for him to put it on mentors though
<AnAnt> seems that he based it on Ubuntu package
<AnAnt> and you are set as one of the uploaders
<AnAnt> can someone help me with this debian bug 507340 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 507340 in sl-modem-daemon "sl-modem-daemon: User Slmodemd has home dir /" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/507340
<AnAnt> although I'm not sure wether it is a bug or not that the Slmodemd user has home dir /, I did decide to fix it, and set the home dir to  /var/log/slmodemd/
<AnAnt> yet, when I put this code (http://pastebin.com/m4ebf61d3) in postinst to fix the issue for those who are upgrading sl-modem package, and tried to install the package, I get a seg. fault from postinst
<AnAnt> can someone advise me with this ?
<RAOF> AnAnt: Is the daemon running at that point?
<AnAnt> RAOF: nope
<RAOF> Because man usermod says that it'll be most displeased if the user is logged in or running any programs.
<AnAnt> there's nothing being run by Slmodemd
<superm1> AnAnt, it's based off an old package though...
<superm1> hum
<mase_work> hey guys, is this the channel where i can get help packaging ?
<mdomsch> superm1, re dkms in debian: the manpage patch could be merged upstream
<mdomsch> it just s/-/\-/
<AnAnt> mase_work: yup
<mdomsch> why did David check it into svn.debian.org instead of continuing to point at the upstream git tree?
<mdomsch> vcs-svn and vcs-browser
<superm1> i'm going to have to send him an email tomorrow about this
<superm1> does debian not have a git tree server that would be able to clone to and then just do direct pulls?
<mdomsch> alioth says it's in cvs; the package says it's in svn
<mdomsch> weird
<mdomsch> and set up new mailing lists
<mase_work> AnAnt:cool. I have a package which is in hardy and i would like to be able to add a patch to it,  and have apt use that package instead of the one in the hardy repository. I am aware this can be done, but there are alot of other packages which depend on this package so do i need to do repackage all of those as well ?
<AnAnt> why repacakge them ?
<mase_work> AnAnt: well the package i want to add a patch to is dovecot-common and dovecot-imapd dovecot-pop depend on dovecot. what i would like to do is just add the patch and make the package without having to touch the others
<mase_work> but i don't want apt to then clobber the installed dovecot-common package if a security update is released
<ScottK-laptop> mdomsch: Generally svn.debian.org just has the Debian packaging, not the upstream source.
<mdomsch> ScottK, ah ok
<AnAnt> mase_work: sorry, I dunno
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I fixed the issues detected by mok0's review of dvdstyler package (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler). could someone have a quick review, to check if I still miss something? Thanks!
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: what's debian.patch
<AnAnt> superm1: I have a question , you asked me to add linux-headers-generic | linux-headers in sl-modem-source Recommends field
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: why shall you mention Build dependency on libwxsvg-dev (>= 1:1.0) in changelog?
<superm1> AnAnt, yes
<AnAnt> superm1: what should I do for Debian ? there is no linux-headers-generic there
<superm1> AnAnt, in debian what is the linux headers package called?
<AnAnt> AnAnt: there are many packages that provide linux-headers virtual package
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: it comes from upstream: they are building the packages with builddebian command, and apply debian.patch before
<superm1> AnAnt, what's the most common case though
<AnAnt> superm1: dunno
<slytherin> persia: howdy
<fabrice_sp> and about mentioning explicit dependency: it has been requested by siretart
<freeflying> superm1: there has a lot flavours in debian, like 486 686 k7 etc
<fabrice_sp> (comment of the 15th of November)
<AnAnt> superm1: linux-headers-2.6-486 maybe, since it's description is: Header files for Linux 2.6 on x86
<superm1> AnAnt, well so the intention of that is so that you get the most common case
<superm1> so you should probably make it $(DEBIAN_MOST_COMMON_LINUX_HEADERS_PACKAGE) | linux-headers-generic | linux-headers
<superm1> and that would allow it to work on both debian and ubuntu
<AnAnt> would debian approve that ?
<AnAnt> I mean approve " | linux-headers-generic " part ?
<AnAnt> superm1: is $(DEBIAN_MOST_COMMON_LINUX_HEADERS_PACKAGE), a variable that you just made up ?
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: you can document it in an README
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: and is this belong to graphics?
<superm1> AnAnt, it's a variable i just made up yes :)
<superm1> AnAnt, you can ask your sponsor in debian if they would be willing to add the | linux-headers-generic.  i've seen packages where they'll add in a small thing like that if it's the only delta to ubuntu.  it keeps maintenance easiest for all parties then
<AnAnt> ok
<superm1> AnAnt, so if you were to grab the i386 installer for debian, does it choose the kernel during install time, or it has a basic kernel it installs for everyone and you pick the more appropriate one later?
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: will change my comment to README, then, and about graphics: it's the only section for 'multimedia' app (afaik)
<AnAnt> superm1: I dont use debian
<superm1> AnAnt, if the former, then i'd say you are probably best with a 486 or 686 headers package by default, if the latter, then you should go with what gets installed by default
<superm1> AnAnt, then making an educated decision is exponentially more difficult :)
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: you mean README.source, right?
<AnAnt> superm1: ook
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: yes
<fabrice_sp> ok
<superm1> freeflying, perhaps do you know?
<freeflying> AnAnt: you'd better have a look of those modules in debian, to see how do they solve it
<AnAnt> freeflying: no package in debian uses dkms yet
<freeflying> superm1: I haven't packaged anything relate to kernel :)
<superm1> freeflying, but do you use debian? do you know what the default kernel that gets installed is for x86?  or is it selected at install time?
<freeflying> AnAnt: you'd better go to debian-mentors @ oftc for help
<freeflying> superm1: for me, I selected it manually :)
<AnAnt> superm1: I think that a virtual package is enough
<AnAnt> superm1: I just looked at openswan-modules-source Recommends: field
<superm1> AnAnt, no it's not.  you need to have a default or the alternative virtual package
<superm1> if something is depending on virtual package only, that's an error
<AnAnt> superm1: kernel-package (>= 7.04), linux-source
<superm1> i believe even lintian tells you
<AnAnt> superm1: linux-source is a virtual package
<freeflying> AnAnt: btw, the way for maintain kernel is different in debian and ubuntu
<freeflying> s/kernel/kernel package
<superm1> http://lintian.debian.org/tags/virtual-package-depends-without-real-package-depends.html
<AnAnt> superm1: openswan is not one of them
<AnAnt> superm1: btw, only one package provides linux-source though !
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: where is the Homepage in debian/control
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: you're right. I lost it in my multiples upgrades of the package.
<AnAnt> superm1: probably openswan is not listed in the URL you mentioned, because the virtual package is in Recommends not Depends field
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: you really need to hardcode in Depends?
<superm1> AnAnt, probably, but it's the same principle.
<AnAnt> ok
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: yes. this are tools that are used by DVDStyler to generate the DVD.
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: perhaps ffmpeg could be deleted because of libavcodec-unstripped being there. I'll try.
<fabrice_sp> and I'll move xine-ui to Recommends (but it will be installed by default in Intrepid)
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: and do remember document why don't u use the original one
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: and do remember document why don't u use the original source tarbal
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: just have done it in the README.source :-)
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: usr/share/dvdstyler/data/empty_ntsc_ac3.mpg what's this for?
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: for generating the default empty menu for NTSC format
<fabrice_sp> it's a kind of template
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: so dvdstyler can work without it?
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: hmm, I don't think so, but I'll try deleting it, to check if it works. Why? Is there copyright issue with this file?
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: no, if its not necessary, you can split the package into two
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: lack of manpage
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: I think it's mandatory, because I remember seeing that file in the generation log
<fabrice_sp> manpage is in docs/dvdstyler.1
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: ok
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: are u sure u have make it installed?
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: In the resulting deb, it's in /usr/share/man/man1, so yes
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: ok
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: why is data/dvdstyler.desktop changed
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: to remove warnings given by desktop-file-validate (last comments of mok0)
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: my fault, its a patch :) sorry
<fabrice_sp> freeflying: np. Thanks for taking time to review dvdstyler. I've updated REVU with your comments, and will upload a new version to take them into account. thanks again!
<freeflying> fabrice_sp: u r welcome
<RAOF> Any MOTU/DD crossovers feel like sponsoring a Debian upload?
<directhex> any suggestions on how to package batguano-insane upstream which requires a snapshot of openjdk and gnu classpath sources?
<directhex> a really big diff.gz, with the extra crap in debian/ ?
<Michele> hello ppl :]
<Michele> i should change my dput.cf for configure PORT, someone can help me ?
<Michele> ho can i set port ?
<Michele> *HOW*
<directhex> Michele, as in TCP port number?
<Michele> yes
<Michele> scp method
<directhex> don't quote me on this.........
<directhex> but consider setting Port for that host in ~/.ssh/config ?
<Michele> fqdn = 10.0.0.2     method = scp incoming = ~debomatic/big/ login = debomatic allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
<Michele> (my .dput.cf)
<Michele> but sshd running in 222 TCP port
<Michele> how can i fix it ?
<directhex> <directhex> don't quote me on this.........
<directhex> <directhex> but consider setting Port for that host in ~/.ssh/config ?
<Michele> yes i read it :-]
<Michele> but i dont know how to really configure it
<_ruben> why would you run ssh on a non-standard port?
<Michele> _ruben: VM, anyway the problem is other
<directhex> ssh config is easy
<directhex> Host 10.0.0.2
<directhex> Port 222
<Michele> ok work
<Michele> Thanks directhex
<_ruben> why would a vm have its ssh on a diff port? oh well
<verwilst> i run ssh on non-standard ports too
<verwilst> well, at least on public ip's
<_ruben> security through obscurity? rather useless imo
<verwilst> nah not really
<verwilst> if it was only that, sure
<verwilst> but using it on a different port gets rid of any scans
<verwilst> which are constant :)
<_ruben> only allowing pubkey auth pretty much is all you need for a secure ssh setup
<verwilst> you never know there is an ssh flaw that isnt patched or sth
<verwilst> :)
<verwilst> _ruben: sure, running on another port is just a small step for a secure(d) server :)
<_ruben> yeah .. a step back imo .. it breaks more than it 'fixes' .. like with the example which started this discussion :)
<_ruben> for production/mission critical stuff, you dont want ssh open to the whole world anyways
<slytherin> directhex: why would a package need snapshot of openjdk?
<directhex> slytherin, insanity
<slytherin> directhex: which project is it?
<directhex> slytherin, ikvm
<slytherin> directhex: any pointers to the statement that it needs snapshots? And have you already tried building it with the openjdk in jaunty?
<directhex> slytherin, ikvm-0.36.0.11/HOWTO
<eMerzh> Hi everyone... if someone is bored ... he could review my waiting package at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman thanks a lot :D
<directhex> been at it a while, eMerzh :|
<directhex> funny thing, it seems REVU is slower than debian NEW at times o_o
<Hobbsee> slytherin: contentless repong?
<slytherin> Hobbsee: Are you free enough to clear 2 more packages from 'NEW'?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: sources or binaries?
<slytherin> Hobbsee: binaries.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: libhibernate-validator-java and ï»¿libhibernate-annotations-java
<Hobbsee> slytherin: waved
<slytherin> Hobbsee: Thanks
<Hobbsee> slytherin: you're welcome
<nxvl> airports are SO boring
<directhex> nxvl, wifi helps
<directhex> nxvl, and IME, airports vary wildly in boringness
<nxvl> directhex: yup
<nxvl> directhex: that's true
<nxvl> directhex: and the boriness is direct relative to the wifi conection
<nxvl> directhex: worst conection, more boring
<directhex> slytherin, what are the chances of the java team offering an openjdk-source package of some kind for handy build-depitude?
<slytherin> directhex: 100%, there is already a package, openjdk-6-source. Check if it serves the purpose.
<directhex> if i (well, hanska) need to go further, is openjdk-6-source-files likely to stick around for long, or is it an ephemeral entry on experimental that'll disappear in the future?
<AnAnt> Hello, regarding this merge request ( bug 305124 ) , is there something to do or someone to subscribe ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 305124 in tspc "Candidate revision tspc_2.1.1-7ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305124
<AnAnt> Hello, regarding this merge request ( bug 305124 ) , is there something to do or someone to subscribe ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 305124 in tspc "Candidate revision tspc_2.1.1-7ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305124
<AnAnt> Hello, regarding this merge request ( bug 305124 ) , is there something to do or someone to subscribe ?
<AnAnt> sorry, I get disconnected a lot
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 305124 in tspc "Candidate revision tspc_2.1.1-7ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305124
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: dude, spam?
<Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<Hobbsee> note the sponsorship queue stuff mentioned on ^
<directhex> afternoon Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> hey directhex!
<Hobbsee> well, late evening, but... :)
<directhex> Hobbsee, i'm awaiting a flame war :)
<Hobbsee> directhex: where?
<directhex> Hobbsee, debian-devel, probably. look who turned up in NEW last night: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/moon_1.0~beta1-1.html
<Hobbsee> directhex: oh, fun.
 * Hobbsee hands you a flame-proof vest
<directhex> Hobbsee, i look forward to it ^_^
<Hobbsee> :)
<directhex> hm, am i a sociopath? o_o
<laga> are you already being called names?
<azeem> I must have missed all those mono flamewars directhex is talking about
<Hobbsee> azeem: there was a great post on ubuntu-motu a while ago about it
<azeem> ah
<Hobbsee> and various people who have decided to flame #ubuntu-devel about mono
<azeem> I thought they were related to Debian not Ubuntu
<Hobbsee> well, they're both :)
<directhex> laga, over moon? yes. huge flame war on debian-devel;
<directhex> laga, starting with http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/10/msg00063.html
<azeem> that thread was mostly about mpeg encoders I thought
<directhex> azeem, people got sidetracked, certainly. but robert doesn't half have a go on the itp bug itself
<directhex> azeem, i reached the decision "i don't care about robert millan" between the ITP and yesterday's upload
<azeem> everybody mostly ignores Robert these days
<azeem> and even then, I don't see how your conversation with im is a "huge flame war"
<azeem> him*
<directhex> azeem, i was mostly offended that a former Gnash maintainer was using "it won't be 100% compatible with what it's a clone of" as a reason to reject
<azeem> I was amused, but yes :)
<directhex> oh, and boycottnovell picked up on it, and moaned about how i must be thick or something
<azeem> ok
<azeem> you just make it sounds like you have to battle/fight half of Debian every day about mono/moonlight, while in practise at most a couple of vocal people are speaking up against it
<directhex> and their groupies are just the kind of ill-informed loudmouths who really help promote free software to the masses
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: not spam, bad net connection
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: anyways, thanks
<slytherin> AnAnt: the bug description is misleading. There is one Ubuntu change still not merged and hence you have a merge bug. Otherwise it would be a sync.
<directhex> smerge!
<AnAnt> slytherin: what change is not merged ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: the one for which you submitted the diff, related to ipv6 module loading
<AnAnt> slytherin: sorry, disconnected again, what's not merged ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: ï»¿the one for which you submitted the diff, related to ipv6 module loading
<AnAnt> slytherin: yes, that's what I found in previous debdiff
<AnAnt> slytherin: in addition to debian/control changes (Maintainer field)
<slytherin> AnAnt: yes, that is why I said that "All ubuntu changes have been merged" is a wrong description.
<AnAnt> slytherin: those are all what I found
<AnAnt> slytherin: well ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: Please tell me what meaning did you intend to convey with "All Ubuntu changes have been merged".
<AnAnt> slytherin: I meant that all changes (that I found in the last debdiff from 2.1.1-6.1 to  2.1.1-6.1ubuntu1) were merged
<slytherin> AnAnt: So that is what I couldn't understand. Usually when you file a merge bug, you should mention what ubuntu changes still need to be maintained or what changes have been already merged in Debian and can be dropped.
<slytherin> AnAnt: So when you say "all changes have been merged" the usual meaning is that the changes have been merged in Debian and we don't need to maintain Ubuntu diff.
<AnAnt> ah, I meant that I merged the changes in the debdiff I put
<persia> Better to use language like "Merge from ${source}, Remaining Ubuntu changes:" and then list anything left over below.
 * directhex merges persia from ${source}
<sebner> persia: \o/
<AnAnt> source ?
<AnAnt> you mean main
<persia> Something like "Debian unstable" or "Debian experimental" or "Joe's nifty deb repo"
<AnAnt> ok changed
<AnAnt> got to reboot
<slytherin> Hobbsee: One more package please, so that I can go home and try building jboss. :-D - libhibernate-entitymanager-java
<Koon> slytherin: joining the Java meeting ?
<slytherin> Koon: there
<slytherin> Koon: persia is available.
<Koon> persia: if you want to chair let me know
<persia> Not really :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sebner
<rjune> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello rjune
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<nixternal> boo
<bddebian> ahhh :)
<nixternal> bddebian: you going to UDS?
<bddebian> Nah, I am gymnastics poor :(
<StevenK> bddebian: What does gymnastics have to do with being poor?
<bddebian> StevenK: My daughters' gymnastics classes cost us a buttload of money :(
<jdong> StevenK: it means he has to bend over backwards for money?
<jdong> oh. that works too.
 * StevenK smirks, and goes to breakfast.
<ScottK> jdong: I'm not so sure about the backwards part.
<leonel> scottK so  after looking at the disabled modules  in our case  chm   roll the diff  without that patch ??
<ScottK> leonel: No.  We should include it.  My point is that your test doesn't mean the code isn't vulnerable, since the module is disabled.
<ScottK> leonel: I'm talking with upstream about how we can arrange to get stuff re-enabled after patching.
<leonel> scottK ok I'll wait since I cant find where to put the 2nd part
<ScottK> leonel: If it's a question of waiting, let's go ahead without it and then do another update once it's sorted out.
<leonel> scottK  I'll push what I got and  fix that latter
<ScottK> leonel: Sounds good.
<leonel> scottK I'm preparing another for   squirrelmail
<eMerzh> OyÃ© OyÃ© (in old french in the text) if You want to review a package, mine is waiting for you : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ... feel free to comment or advocate this! ;)
<TheMuso> Does anybody know off the top of their head the best and most up to date wiki page about chroots?
<laga> TheMuso: that's like asking for the best and most up to date wiki page about kittens. can you be a bit specific?
<TheMuso> Right, I need to give someone a link to explain about chroots, and how we use them in Ubuntu, and the tools available.
<laga> hum. the pbuilder documentation might be useful.. maybe also the other builders.
<TheMuso> I might start with DebootstrapChroot, but I'll have a look around.
<laga> see, chroot is a system call. you can do a lot of things with it, and a lot of tools like ltsp-build-client and probably ubiquity etc use it
<laga> yeah, debootstrap is important as well.
<laga> of course, my list is nowhere near completeness :)
<TheMuso> Anyway, we will see if they write back with more questions.
<crevette> hello
<crevette> If someone could be kind enough to validate a sponsoring request and do it if he can (lp 305229)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 305229 in obex-data-server "[need-sponsoring] Upgrade to version 0.4.2 for jaunty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305229
<TheMuso> c
<RainCT> ++   :)
 * StevenK stuffs RainCT out an airlock
<RainCT> StevenK: why? :(
<StevenK> Because C++ needs to DIAF
<RainCT> StevenK: replaced by what?
<StevenK> I don't care, anything that isn
<StevenK> 't C++
<laga> java \o/
<RainCT> StevenK: as long as it isn't #, that's fine for me :P
<RainCT> s/for/by
<psusi> is there any reason for debian/rules to require root for a clean?
<azeem_> it requires fakeroot
<psusi> well, it requires root, whether it be real or fake... my question is why ;)
<psusi> root should only be needed for make install
<psusi> which debian/rules clean should not be running
<azeem_> it needs to undo the effects of make install
<psusi> hrm.... so if you really ran debian/build as root, instead of with fakeroot, it would not be able to rm the files in the build directory?
<azeem> yes
<morgs> I need help with an SRU for bug 263173, any motu-srus around?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263173 in sugar-hulahop "Sugar Browse fails on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263173
<leonel> scottK bug #271546
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271546 in clamav "[hardy] Multiple unfixed CVEs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271546
<leonel> scottK hardy debdiff  done   working with dapper and  gutsy   remains open for the cve-2008-1389
<ScottK> leonel: Sounds good.
<ScottK> leonel: You should add LP: #304017 to your references.
<leonel> redo the diff ??
<leonel> or some magic by the security team can do the magic ?
<ScottK> leonel: You can just edit the diff and reupload it to LP since you aren't changing the number of lines.
<leonel> scottK ok , didn't know that I can  edit the   debdiff by hand  ..
<ScottK> leonel: As long as you don't change the number of lines, you can.
<ScottK> ... and you're careful.
<leonel> done
<ScottK> Building here.
<logari81> hi, which is the process to bring a new application in Ubuntu repos?
<hyperair> logari81: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<ScottK> leonel: Looks good here.
<leonel> scottK great ..   building for dapper   and test
<frostburn> there's a manpage missing for a package, what would be the first step in remedying it?
<Laney> writing the manpage
<frostburn> it's written, just not provided by the package
<logari81> hyperair: thank you
<Laney> frostburn: Does the package use debhelper?
<frostburn> unsure
<psusi> so I uploaded a bad package to my ppa... I deleted it... now when I try to upload the fixed version launchpad rejects it saying it was already uploaded... but I deleted it?
<Laney> psusi: Increase the version number
<jdong> psusi: deletion isn't instant
<jdong> just bump the package
<psusi> jdong: I waited a while and verified that it is no longer in the pool
<directhex> wait longer!
<jdong> that's what she said?
<directhex> can take a few hours to really go
<jdong> *ducks*
<psusi> for what?  the pool is empty :)
<jdong> ok now you guys are just trying to tempt me.
<directhex> pool's closed!
<JontheEchidna> gotta remove the .upload file, or else dput won't let you re-upload
<Philip5> don't know how offtopic this is but does anyone here know if it's possible to make pbuilder to halt if the the build breaks and if so i would like to login to the pbuilder session and look around.
<Philip5> can it be done?
<Nafallo> can definately be done. looked at the example hooks yet? :-)
 * JontheEchidna has a hook for that
<Philip5> nope
<JontheEchidna> Philip5: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/pbuilder/pbuilder-hooks
<JontheEchidna> lotsa useful hooks there
<JontheEchidna> though rtfm is recommended too :P
<azeem> if $FTBFS == yes; then mail Ncommander < buildlog; fi
<Nafallo> Philip5: now stay in the channel :-)
<Nafallo> azeem: LOL
<Philip5> Nafallo: maybe... ;)
<directhex> azeem, that's not very nice
<NCommander> ....
<directhex> azeem, if $FTBFS == yes && $ARCH != i386; then mail Ncommander < buildlog; fi
<directhex> azeem, that's better!
<Nafallo> ey. exclude x86_64 as well :-)
<NCommander> thank you
<directhex> Nafallo, true. who uses ancient arches like m68k and i386 in this day & age?
<NCommander> directhex, uh ....
<NCommander> ...
 * NCommander is a m68k and hurd porter
<Nafallo> directhex: my EeePC?
<NCommander> of course, we're going to see a "bug_ncommander" script added to ubuntu-dev-tools
<Nafallo> not both of them, but anyway...
<directhex> NCommander, feel like fixing the asx parser in moonlight to work on big-endian arches?
<NCommander> Wait
<NCommander> we have a C# app that is platform specific?
<directhex> NCommander, moon is c++ right now
<NCommander> I could look into it
<NCommander> but there is nothing really worth it that is using moonlight?
<directhex> right now? dunno, possibly not
<NCommander> Bug me about it closer to feature freeze and once the ARM port is more stable
<directhex> problem is upstream have no big endian boxes, so can't readily test that little issue
<NCommander> I can give them a box
<NCommander> if there is a test suite, I'll consider it sooner
<directhex> shower time.
<directhex> NCommander, do you have an "unconventional" little endian system (e.g. armel) locally, which you could try a test-build of moon 1.0~beta1-1 on? in theory it should be as functional as on i386, if a fair bit slower at the whole "media" thing
<NCommander> a bunch
<NCommander> powerpc, sparc, hppa, armel
<directhex> hm, i thought ppc was big endian. shows what i know
<leonel> scottK bug #271546  done  Just  the  cve-2008-1389   is pending  ..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271546 in clamav "[hardy] Multiple unfixed CVEs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271546
<directhex> NCommander, if bored, give http://retro.apebox.org/moon/moon_1.0~beta1-1.dsc a punt on one of those (ppc and armel probably the most likely to matter)
<NCommander> how big is it?
<directhex> NCommander, source? about 12 meg, due to the huge test harness
<NCommander> my ARM box would slowly grind itself to death compiling that
<NCommander> I'll run it on the POwerPC when I plug it back in
<directhex> actual debs produced add up to less than 700k
<directhex> http://miguelmoreno.net/sandbox/Silverlight_0/ is a nice simple example. http://videoshow.vertigo.com/ is more flashy
<eike_> I maintain the source package for "osmo" in Debian and just fixed a bug that occures in Intrepid (see LP: #296243). I attached a debdiff against the version currently in Intrepid and tested the resulting .deb. Could anyone comment on this, please? This is the first time a do a stable update in Ubuntu...
<jdong> stupid gnome terminal
<jdong> how do you get back a menu bar you got rid of
<jdong> because someone picked a ridiculously easy to trigger shortcut for a worthless feature
<jdong> *grumbles and censors some non-CoC compliant additional statements*
<azeem> jdong: right click->show menubar
<azeem> not sure you meant that, though
<jdong> oh, that works.
<jdong> thanks.
<jdong> still, usability wise it's not very intuitive
<azeem> cheers
<jdong> rhythmbox gives me a stupid balloon for when I freaking minimize it to the system tray
<azeem> the only thing I need the menubar for is when I need to change encoding
<jdong> OH GOD WHERE DID IT GO? I CLICKED THE TRAY ICON AND RHYTHMBOX *DISAPPEARED!!!!*
<azeem> something which should be in the context menu as well IMO
<laga> jdong: have you recently switched from kde?
<jdong> laga: nope
<jdong> if we use balloons to hint users to look for an app in the system tray we should at least use a balloon to hint users where their menu has just gone.
<persia> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<persia> bug #296243
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296243 in osmo "Osmo crashes on contacts search" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296243
<jdong> eike_: distribution should be intrepid-proposed, not intrepid
<eike_> jdong: thanks for the hint, just uploaded the updated debdiff
<jdong> eike_: alright, while you have me here I'll sponsor it :)
<eike_> jdong: great, thanks a lot for your quick help!
<jdong> eike_: sure thing; uploaded, awaiting approval
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-05
 * invaleed is away (Please give me hug)
<Hobbsee> in[v]aleed: please turn that off.
<rjune__> are there instructions on building a Jaunty chroot?
<stdin> rjune__: install a intrepid chroot and upgrade it to jaunty
<rjune__> where can I find instructions on building an intrepid chroot?
<nellery> rjune__: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Elbrus> stdin: why not: install a jaunty chroot?
<rjune__> nellery: thanks
<stdin> Elbrus: because I use debootstrap, and it doesn't have jaunty yet
<Elbrus> stdin: I think just make a softlink in /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts from jaunty -> gutsy
<Hobbsee> stdin: it knows about jaunty - or at least, the backported version does
<stdin> that would probably work, yeah
<stdin> Hobbsee: ah, so it does
<rjune__> a large percentage of folks here are from canonical, yes?
<stdin> probably a small percentage
<stdin> tiny, in fact
<ScottK> The backported debchroot does know jaunty for Hardy and Intrepid.
<ScottK> Backported debchange does too.
<jdong> RFC: I just told bug 275375 to submit deluge-team's PPA packaging to REVU
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275375 in deluge-torrent "Please upgrade to deluge-torrent 1.0.6" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275375
<jdong> 1.x.x is a complete rewrite compared to our existing 0.5.x and they redid all the packaging too
<jdong> given that there is NOTHING in common between this and what we have in our repos other than the name of the software, I think it's appropriate to treat it as if it were brand-new
<jdong> any thoughts? disagreements?
<Hobbsee> jdong: hmm....fair call, to an extent, but REVU is still quite slow
<jdong> aye; I'd be happy to take the first look at the packaging but I just wanted to get the thing onto a QA platform
<Hobbsee> (the problem would be if it never quite got thru REVU, and we released with the old version)
<Hobbsee> apart from taht, i'd say REVU is a fair place to put it
<jdong> yeah, we need to take care to look at it once it appears on REVU
<Hobbsee> just put a note of the above on the submission, so people don't try and push towards debdiffs / interdiffs / whatever diffs we're using this week ;)
<jdong> "Please backport the Jaunty version of Banshee to Intrepid. A few other
<jdong> dependencies are needed as well.
<jdong> "
<jdong> I love the way the 2nd sentence was so nondescriptively and helpfully worded :)
<StevenK> "No."
<jdong> well at least he said Please, right? :)
<Hobbsee> therefore, it should be "No.  Thank you"
 * jdong peeks in the Banshee Team PPA
<jdong> HOLY SMOKING CRAP: https://edge.launchpad.net/~banshee-team/+archive
<jdong> that's not just a "few" dependencies that's half the mono/cli stack!
<Hobbsee> trivial, for a crack person.
<Hobbsee> !jdong
<ubottu> <Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<Hobbsee> mind you,  it must *really* be full of lots of crack, if jdong says it is :P
<jdong> :)
<Elbrus> anybody mind updating my (debian) package winff so that it can fully use ffmpeg in ubuntu (bug 304249) (debdiff available in the bug report and only changes in debian dir)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 304249 in winff "[jaunty] Presets are not compatible with the ffmpeg version " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304249
<eMerzh> if some motu want to celebrate his revu day by reviewing my package : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman thanks!
 * RAOF bites
<iulian> :)
<directhex> jdong, mono is disallowed for backporting, so you can just give a simple "no" :p
<directhex> jdong, of course, you can no longer trivially backport CLI apps from jaunty, what with the mono 2.0 transition.....
<RAOF> Man, copyright sucks.
<directhex> RAOF, whyso?
<RAOF> Allow me to elaborate: /checking/ the copyright of packages sucks.
<RAOF> eMerzh: The mechanical parts look good.  As almost always is the case, there still appears to be some copyright fun waiting for you :/.
<eMerzh> Thanks a lot for your review RAOF! .... so i'll dive into the copyrights things :)
<RAOF> I'm not sure whether it matters that your Copyright credits are overbroad, but I would be listing the actual holders of the copyright for each of the files, rather than saying the set of all people who claim copyright in one or more files has copyright over *
<RAOF> eMerzh: Actually, I'd also suggest mentioning in README.Source that the shipped copy of qtscintilla isn't actually used in the build.  That's something that's nice to know from the get-go :)
<eMerzh> RAOF: ok, ...but about readme.source, a motu told me that it was unecessary... so i' remove it...
<RAOF> eMerzh: That would have been before you added the patches; Policy 3.8.0 says that you should have a README.Source if dpkg-source -x doesn't result in the extraction of the sources as-built.
<RAOF> And since you already need one for that, it'd be nice to add something about the qtscintilla :)
<slytherin> eMerzh: RAOF: Please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/README.sourceHowTo
<RAOF> slytherin: By "point to", what does that page mean?
<RAOF> slytherin: filesystem link?  Have a README.Source that just says "see /usr/share/whatever"?
<slytherin> RAOF: I am not sure, probably mention it in README.Debian. :-D
<slytherin> RAOF: Or as you pointed in README.source. Some thing similar to what is done for common licenses.
<RAOF> Right.
<eMerzh> slytherin: so for my package, did i restore my previous README.source with a mention to the dpatch/README.source.gz ?
<eMerzh> slytherin: should i restore ...
<slytherin> eMerzh: Yes, just a mention, not complete text.
<eMerzh> slytherin:  like this, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~emerzh/%2Bjunk/sqliteman/annotate/11?file_id=readme.source-20081119183320-4q86ddc5u42k2iqo-1 is it ok?
<slytherin> eMerzh: Change the text in first line to - "This package uses dpatch in order to apply patches to the upstream source. Patches are stored in debian/patches and their filenames usually end in .dpatch"
<_Groo_> hi2/all
<_Groo_> is this the right place for kubuntu devel also?
<mok0> _Groo_: ... did you try #kubuntu-devel :-)
<_Groo_> mok0: did now :)
<_Groo_> thanks
<RainCT> heya
<handschuh> RainCT: yo!
<JontheEchidna> mok0: oh, by the way. Tagging for KDE 4.2 beta2 is taking place on the seventh, so next week we're going to be packaging it if you would like to help.
<mok0> JontheEchidna: I'll make a note...
<mok0> JontheEchidna: Will it be in #kubuntu-devel
<Tetracomm> Hello.
<RainCT> hi
<Tetracomm> I got a tarball and want to know what the dependencies for the program are, how do I check?
<directhex> Tetracomm, checking configure.in or configure.ac is a good step
<Tetracomm> Horribly long file.
<Tetracomm> :S
* RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | Grab a merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs | It's REVU Day, go review :)
<RainCT> Tetracomm: yeah, there are funnier things than finding out dependencies :)
<Tetracomm> I need help.
 * RainCT reviews scim-wijesekera
<RainCT> really stupid question (blame CDBS *g*.. and exams which kill my brain! :)), but shouldn't   "./configure --prefix=/usr" (in debian/rules)   point to $(CURDIR)/debian/<pkgname>/usr/ ?
<directhex> nope!
<directhex> ./configure --prefix=/usr
<RainCT> directhex: ohh, I'm getting stupid then XD
<directhex> make DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp install
<RainCT> ah okay
<RainCT> directhex: thx
<Tetracomm> Can anyone else help me to find the dependencies of a program in a tarball?
<RainCT> Tetracomm: have you checked if there's a README or INSTALL file listing them?
<Tetracomm> Yes.
<hyperair> when does a package get a -dev, and when doesn't it? i noticed that geany has headers within it. howcome that isn't split into a geany-dev package or something?
<JontheEchidna> hyperair: generally when another package needs the development headers to build
<JontheEchidna> if no software requires the headers to build they are either just thrown in with the rest of the package (in the case of small packages) or into debian/not-installed
<hyperair> JontheEchidna: debian/not-installed? is that a file?
<JontheEchidna> yup
<hyperair> interesting. i never knew there was such a file. i thought that if there's an install file, everything left out of install won't be installed?
<JontheEchidna> right, but having a not-installed makes it easier to keep track of what is purposefully left out
<hyperair> i see. yeah
<JontheEchidna> because new files can be introduced with new releases of software
<JontheEchidna> yeah
<hyperair> yeah i didn't think of that
<hyperair> thanks =0
<hyperair> =)*
<JontheEchidna> :)
<rjune> where does pbuilder create it's build environment?
<JontheEchidna> rjune: /var/cache/pbuilder/build
<rjune> thank you
<JontheEchidna> yw
<rjune> every call of pbuilder generates a clean build environment?
<JontheEchidna> yes
<JontheEchidna> each has a different folder in the build dir
<rjune> that could get big
<JontheEchidna> they get deleted after the build is done
<rjune> I'm on an intrepid box currently, I was told just install pbuilder then update the chroot.
<rjune> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto?highlight=(pbuilder)#Installing Pbuilder on Warty, Hoary or Breezy <-- that's the relevant bit to build jaunty from intrepid, yes?
<JontheEchidna> I use the instructions here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#The%20Personal%20Builder:%20pbuilder
<ScottK-laptop> For a Jaunty pbuilder, you'll need some packages from intrepid-backports
<ScottK-laptop> That or make an intrepid one and upgrade it.
<rjune> ScottK-laptop: so pbuilder update? or pbuilder upgrade?
<rjune> I have a pbuilder environ on intrepid already
<ScottK-laptop> rjune: Then you can use pbuilder login --saver-after-login and then upgrade while you're logged in.
<DRebellion> Hey guys, can anybody take a look at Cifer (a tool for analysing and cracking classical ciphers) in revu? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cifer
<directhex> can it do 4-rotor enigma code?
<DRebellion> directhex, -.-
<DRebellion> no, we didn't get into the wwii machine stuff
<directhex> a classic if ever there was one!
<directhex> hackable by the british though :/
<DRebellion> hmm... i think it can do only pen and paper cifers..
<DRebellion> but then, all 'classical' ciphers are pen and paper
<ScottK-laptop> DRebellion: One quick comment: Don't include the debian dir in your orig.tar.gz.
<DRebellion> ScottK-laptop, sorry =/
<DRebellion> i did have a bad feeling about releasing it in our source tarball
<DRebellion> ScottK-laptop, would it be wise to release an upstream 1.0.2 and remove the directory?
<bmm> I'm looking for comments or the first advocate on: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink Thanks in advance.
<rjune> to upgrade to jaunty, simply update the sources file for apt, then do update/upgrade, right?
<directhex> and pray
<rjune> LOL
<pochu> rjune: better use update-manager
<laga> hey rjune
<bddebian> Damnit, I know I've done it before.  How do I pass DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS to pbuilder?
<ScottK> DRebellion: Yes.
<DRebellion> ScottK, already underway ; )
<ScottK> rjune: Better don't upgrade.
<DRebellion> How can I determine which version of debhelper i should depend on? Is there some magical tool that will check my source package for the features it uses?
<quadrispro> RainCT, I've read you messages some day ago...
<stdin> DRebellion: should be the same version as in debian/compat
<stdin> so if debian/compat contains 6, then you build-dep on debhelper (>= 6)
<DRebellion> stdin, yes, but how do i know what version to put in debian/compat? I'm trying to get away with the lowest version possible.
<stdin> I say to try 5 first
<DRebellion> stdin, ok, then keep working up? gotcha.
<ScottK-laptop> DRebellion: It's a question of what version of debhelper your package needs.
<DRebellion> ScottK-laptop, i'm not sure how to determine this though?
<DRebellion> in any other way than trying each out, that is.
<ScottK-laptop> One way is looking the the changelog for debhelper and figuring out of you're using any features from a particular release.
<ScottK-laptop> DRebellion: 5 is fine for your package.
<DRebellion> ScottK-laptop, ok, thanks
<ScottK-laptop> Make sure the versioned depends on debhelper in debian/control matches
 * invaleed is away (Please give me hug)
<ScottK-laptop> !away | in[v]aleed
<ubottu> in[v]aleed: You should avoid noisy away messages in a busy channel like #ubuntu, or other Ubuntu channels; it causes excessive scrolling which is unfair to new users. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently.  See also Â«/msg ubottu GuidelinesÂ»
 * jdong notes that's his 2nd warning in 12 hours
<ScottK-laptop> Yep
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Somebody willing to review again  DVDStyler? it's at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler. Thanks!
 * StevenK waves to ScottK-laptop, in a timezone that is a lot closer to his.
 * ScottK-laptop waves back.
<DRebellion> Ok, Cifer (a tool for analysing and cracking classical ciphers) is now at 1.0.2. Any reviews would be much appreciated: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cifer .
<laga> DRebellion: :(
<DRebellion> laga, =/
<directhex> laga, :x
<StevenK> bddebian: lool is at Fosscamp
<bddebian> StevenK: Ahh
<edster> hey I've found that rwhod on hardy / intrepid segfaults when specifying an interface ... (ie rwhod -i eth2).  Would this be the right place to find someone willing to look into this?
<rww> edster: did you file a bug report?
<edster> rww: naw, I didn't.  Where do I go to do that?
<rww> !bugs | edster
<ubottu> edster: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots
<edster> thanks.  :)
<edster> ah looks like it's been updated in debian .. but not yet merged..  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netkit-rwho/+bug/261396
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 261396 in netkit-rwho "rwhod segfaults upon startup when specifying interface to use" [Undecided,New]
<directhex> debian is newer? that's unpossible!
<guille_> hi all
<guille_> do you know which is the absolute path of the file printed when a user logs via ssh?
<guille_> s/logs/logs in
<rww> guille_: /etc/motd
<guille_> rww: thank you
<rww> guille_: btw, that should probably have been directed to #ubuntu, rather than here ;)
<guille_> oh, sorry
<scotlfs> ok guys so how do I begin packaging? I am on the motu wiki and have read some of the stuff, but I mean how do I coordinate with the team about what I am doing etc etc....
<pochu> scotlfs: I suggest you start with merges from Debian and bug fixes. To coordinate, for merges you should mail the last Ubuntu uploader to check with him if he has started doing the work, and if he's fine with you taken it
<scotlfs> actually I have a package I want to volunteer to maintain for ubuntu, as far as I know (I could be wrong), no one is maintaining it yet, thus my volunteering....
<pochu> scotlfs: cool, then you want to upload it to REVU
<directhex> scotlfs, which package?
<scotlfs> the Creative FXi driver
<directhex> X-Fi?
<scotlfs> I have one for my system, so its no extra skin off my back...I never maintained debs before but I developed rpm and maintained SRPMS for the LFS psuedo distro, so it shouldn't be too hard
<scotlfs> yes  Xfi
<DRebellion> Before I head off: if anybody is looking for something to revu i would be really grateful if they took a look at cifer, a tool for cracking classical cryptographic ciphers. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cifer . Thanks in advance.
<scotlfs> developed rpm for the system, I don't mean I developed RPM proper
<directhex> scotlfs, good luck. i've heard not a single good word about the wuality of the x-fi source
<scotlfs> You are right, it sucks....but it works....
<scotlfs> but I can improve it with time
<scotlfs> or we can
<scotlfs> or whomever else is interested
<scotlfs> so I don't really know whether that falls under audio or under kernel as far as MOTU projects
<directhex> scotlfs, you want to build a dkms package
<directhex> scotlfs, look at... lirc-modules-source or kvm-source or kqemu-source
<scotlfs> Its also been a while since i played iwth C on unix, the last few years I have been doing C# in a windows environment....quite different
<scotlfs> c# is more like Visual Basic than C
<directhex> let's assume i'm familiar with c#
<scotlfs> hehe
<scotlfs> ok then
<scotlfs> so then who do I need to coordinate with for this?
<directhex> scotlfs, is there an existing package? is the current source built & included as part of the ubuntu kernel?
<scotlfs> I don't believe there is an existing package, however I don't know whether there is. I can say there isn't one available to clients...
<kees> mok0: your quiltifying of makeztxt is not okay... you didn't break things into logical patches, you just separated them by filename.  also, we're not supposed to add patch systems to Debian packages that don't have them -- makes later merges more difficult.
<directhex> unless it's pkg-cli-* or pkg-mono, in which case patch systems are encouraged, nay, mandatory
<kees> mok0: specifically "please don't change helper tools": https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-November/026903.html
<mok0> kees: Not sure I understand
<mok0> ah
<kees> mok0: well, mostly, just adding quilt for a Debian package makes it hard to re-merge
<directhex> unless it's pkg-cli-* or pkg-mono, where quilt is one of our approved patch systems
<kees> mok0: and specifically, breaking the diff.gz into quilt by filename doesn't make sense because changes need to be separated logically
<mok0> kees, not if the patches are used by the DD
<kees> mok0: well, true.  but e.g. in the case of 03-ztxt_process.c.patch, there are 2 logical changes there
<mok0> kees: let me look
<StevenK> It does make it harder to re-merge.
<kees> one is a FTBFS fix, the other is a crasher fix.
<StevenK> You have the patches in debian/patches, then MoM merges them, and you have the patched source too.
<StevenK> Fail.
<kees> also the makeztxt.c and makeztxt.1 changes (for correct argument handling) should be considered 1 logical change and not be spread between two files
<kees> StevenK: ah, good point
<StevenK> kees: And then the patches are different ...
<mok0> kees: makeztxt.1 really ought to go in debian/
<StevenK> It's a painful, painful mess.
<kees> mok0: yeah, it _all_ should go the debian.  :)
<mok0> StevenK, kees should I redo it?
<mok0> ... or just forward patches?
<kees> mok0: if you re-organized the patches, it'd certainly be better -- all the fixes are already forwarded to debian (see bdmurray's notations)
<StevenK> mok0: If the DD doesn't accept a patch that implements a patch system, ask *why*
<mok0> StevenK: hm, I see
<kees> StevenK: the maintainer isn't actually a DD and hasn't uploaded anything else
<kees> StevenK: I emailed them yesterday asking if they wanted to share maintainership
<mok0> Hopefully we soon go to the quilt src pkg format
<StevenK> Ew
<StevenK> Dun wanna play that game
 * StevenK hates quilt, and wants it to die
<mok0> It's not really quilt specific
<directhex> everyone has their favourites
<kees> StevenK: reAlly?  quilt sure is nicer than other stuff
<directhex> i mean, some people in here think cdbs is usable!
<StevenK> kees: I hate quilt, I have a mild dislike of CDBS, and prefer dpatch
<mok0> heh, /me loves both cdbs AND quilt
<kees> StevenK: I want to see you and slangasek discuss patch systems.  I'll bring popcorn.
<StevenK> We have ...
<kees> and I missed it! dang.
<StevenK> kees: File a session at UDS?
<kees> I see benefits in both quilt and dpatch.
 * StevenK smirks
<kees> StevenK: hah, I've got enough to do.  :)
 * directhex uses dh, but generally has only a "cdbs is smelly" policy
<StevenK> kees: Are you in SF yet?
<kees> StevenK: nopers, sunday night
 * StevenK nods
<kees> directhex: heh
<mok0> quilt is very convenient when you're creating lots of fixes
<kees> quilt is nice for rebasing.  dpatch is nice for adding new patches
<directhex> we used to be a dpatch-only shop, but our latest contributor has sold us on quilt as an option
<slangasek> "discuss" patch systems?  is kees suggesting I should pack extra gear?
<kees> haha
<directhex> slangasek, crowbars go through the baggage check, right?
<StevenK> Only if I can get someone to bring me my Clue
<kees> just wrap it in tinfoil so the TSA doesn't see it.
<StevenK> "What's this large heavy metal object?" 'A developer education tool.'
<mok0> kees, you have a suggestion on how I should deal with this?
<mok0> kees: makeztxt I mean
<kees> mok0: personally, I would revert the quilt changes.
<kees> mok0: but if you want to keep quilt, I'd re-arrange the patches to be logically separated, not per-file separated
<mok0> kees: and bump the version?
<mok0> kees: release
<mok0> ubuntu2
 * kees nods
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-06
<pochu> good night folks!
<nhandler> While reviewing packages on REVU, I came accross one that follows http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat?action=recall&rev=196 for debian/copyright. Is this ok? Or should I have them switch to the more traditional style?
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler: Those are fine.
<nhandler> ScottK-laptop: Ok, I just wanted to make sure since I hadn't seen a copyright like that before
<ScottK-laptop> Some people are a real fan of it.
<nhandler> If a program is distributable but not modifiable, can it enter multiverse?
<ScottK> nhandler: Yes.
<nhandler> Thanks ScottK
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone look at this merge request: bug 305124
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 305124 in tspc "Candidate revision tspc_2.1.1-8ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305124
 * invaleed is away (Please give me hug)
<jdong> Hobbsee: ^^
<jdong> I think it's removal time...
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> A very nice hug it will be.
<wgrant> jdong: Can we backport python3.0?
<jdong> wgrant: what does doko think?
<wgrant> jdong: No idea. But it has no rdepends...
<jdong> if it installs side by side correctly, I think that would be pretty cool to backport
<wgrant> We already have rc3 in Intrepid.
<jdong> but since I know /dev/null about python packaging, I'd like to have someone who knows what they're doing weigh in :)
<jdong> I know we have rc3 in Intrepid but I want to make sure nothing changed significantly in jaunty
<wgrant> Right.
 * jdong has a feeling that he needs to have a firefox-3.1 talk of similar nature in the near future :)
<wgrant> Firefox 3.1 breaks subpixel rendering :(
<ScottK-laptop> wgrant: doko already said no.
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: Aw, why?
<ScottK-laptop> We'll have it in intrepid-updates.
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> Good enough reason.
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: ah, even cooler :)
<ScottK-laptop> Hardy, we aren't supporting.
<jdong> <ot> what irony...
<jdong> the day I do a lengthy blogpost raving about the benefits of AppArmor...
<ScottK-laptop> It's not like Python 3.0 will be good for anything but experimental use for quite some time.
<jdong> KDE4.2 installed a restrictive apparmor profile that I spent 20 mintues tweaking :)
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: For which package?
<jdong> the mysqld config backend thingie
<ScottK-laptop> Right.
<ScottK-laptop> Akonadi.
<ScottK-laptop> It's actually a mysql profile.
<jdong> for my encrypted-private-directory setup apparmor chokes on it
<ScottK-laptop> Interesting.
<ScottK-laptop> I'd imagine jdstrand would be interested in that one.
 * wgrant decides he should pack at some point.
<jdong> I needed rwk for not just ${HOME}.local/share/akonadi/**, but ${HOME}/Private and ${HOME}/.Private/local/share......
<jdong> which makes sense due to the way ecryptfs has an upper and lower layer
<jdong> and IMO Ubuntu needs to port over Suse's AppArmor troubleshooter
<jdong> it took me a while to realize that AppArmor was causing the problem
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: Would you please file a bug against akonadi with your information?
<ScottK-laptop> Please susbcribe me to it.
<jdong> will do.
<ScottK-laptop> Thanks
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: done (bug 305669); subscribed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 305669 in akonadi "Akonadi's Apparmor profile does not work with Encrypted Private Directory overlays" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305669
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: Thanks.
<jdong> sure thing
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone help me with a bug fix ? I am trying to fix debian bug 507340
<ubottu> Debian bug 507340 in sl-modem-daemon "sl-modem-daemon: User Slmodemd has home dir /" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/507340
<AnAnt> to fix the problem for those upgrading sl-modem, I did 'usermod --home /var/log/slmodemd Slmodemd' in postinst
<AnAnt> now , when I install the package (even for the first time), this usermod gives a Seg fault
<AnAnt> yet dpkg does continue installing it
<jonnymind> Hello
<keymone> hi
<keymone> i tried apt-build with O3 but still some packages are being built with O2 - why would that happen?
<cliffbreaker_> hi everyone. Try to build a package from source and it gives an error (when using debuild -S -sa) -  make: *** No rule to make target `clean'. Stop. How can I fix it?
<azeem> you need to add a clean target
<azeem> it's required
<azeem> cliffbreaker_: how did you create your debian/rules?
<cliffbreaker_> azeem: well, I understand that. How do I do that - I'm a newbie, sorry, just trying to build my first package
<cliffbreaker_> I used dh_make and it was generated
<azeem> dh_make generates a clean rule, why did you remove it?
<cliffbreaker_> well i didn't. I didn't change anything there. It's present and the section containing a clean rule is there
<azeem> cliffbreaker_: post your rules file on a pastebin then
<cliffbreaker_> ok
<cliffbreaker> azeem: http://paste.org/index.php?id=4411
<azeem> cliffbreaker: can you also pastebin the whole output of debuild -S -sa?
<azeem> cliffbreaker: otherwise, the only thing I can think of is tab/space mangling in rules maybe, so that make gets confused
<cliffbreaker> azeem: ok, but it is half russian)
<azeem> cliffbreaker: run it with LANG=C in front
<cliffbreaker> azeem http://paste.org/index.php?id=4413
<cliffbreaker> oh, just a minute
<RainCT> sebner: you haven't reviewed anything yet :(
<sebner> RainCT: is it still friday somewhere?
<cliffbreaker> azeem: http://paste.org/index.php?id=4414  - here it is
<RainCT> sebner: yep, iirc it's still REVU Day for 2 hours or so
<sebner> RainCT: well, I have to go off now *but* today I'll review something ;)
<azeem> cliffbreaker: ohhhh
<azeem> cliffbreaker: sorry
<cliffbreaker> azeem: for what?)
<azeem> cliffbreaker: the problem is that the clean rules exists, but runs "make clean", but either there is no Makefile in the upstream source, or it does not contain a clean rule
<azeem> so this is not about debian/rules but Makefile
<azeem> cliffbreaker: is there a Makefile.in?
<cliffbreaker> i'll have a look
<cliffbreaker> azeem: well there is none
<azeem> cliffbreaker: what kind of project is it?
<cliffbreaker> it is deluge-torrent. It has no makefile - just setup.py . Seems to use python
<azeem> cliffbreaker: this is a prime example why you should not just use the dh_make debian/rules per se, it usually needs to be adopted to the project you're packaging
<azeem> cliffbreaker: ok, so you need to rewrite debian/rules
<cliffbreaker> azeem: well. It seems quite a task for me) could you please give me any hints?
<azeem> look at other python packages
<cliffbreaker> azeem: well I don't seem to understand what to do, sorry(( just used the instructions provided by MOTU
<DktrKranz> Does anybody notice a "connection refused" error while uploading to PPAs?
<DktrKranz> now it's working, probably it was just me
<Hobbsee> DktrKranz: no, it was broken
<DktrKranz> cool
<Hobbsee> (and was fixed)
<gnomefreak> we should either remove iceweasel-linky from archives or add firefox and friends to the depends. does anyone have an idea on what is better? ill be glad to fix it if needed
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: s/firefox/abrowser/
<Hobbsee> (if you go that route)
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: yeah i was gonna add all that we use with extensions just not sure if removing it or adding deps would be best
 * gnomefreak will work on it monday. 
<directhex> does it need firefoxish, or xulrunner? :p
<iulian> directhex: Hey, I see that a lot of CLI apps are not yet uploaded to experimental. Is meebey lazy? ;-)
<directhex> iulian, no comment!
<iulian> I agree with you.
<directhex> iulian, was giver successfully transitioned? it's still in red - if it's waiting on meebey it should go yellow
<iulian> directhex: Oh really? Didn't know that.
 * iulian wonders how to change the colour.
<iulian> Lemme have a look at the wiki.
<iulian> And yes, it's done already.
<directhex> iulian, as for laziness, i've been bugging him for something which IMHO is higher priority: a new mono version for lenny to fix an RC bug
<directhex> which is done now. 1.9.1+dfsg-5
<directhex> it might be worth a SRU for the same bugfixes for intrepid, but i'm not gonna open that can of worms myself
<iulian> Aha
<iulian> directhex: How do you change the colour?
 * iulian was using the GUI mode.
<directhex> iulian, i'll do it then. i assume gui modes break things ;)
<iulian> directhex: OK then, but I still want to know how to change the colour :)
<iulian> Ah, got it.
<iulian> You cannot change the colour when using the GUI.
<iulian> <bgcolor="">
<directhex> yeah. apprently the gui sucks then :)
<iulian> Indeed
<iulian> Hey mok0.
<gnomefreak> directhex: it only needs to be dependant on browsers because the browsers will bring in xulrunner-*
<gnomefreak> sorry for late reply im working on something
<directhex> gnomefreak, right..... but if it works in all the browsers, you could depend on xulrunner-1.9. that way on debian or ubuntu it'd work in FF, iceweasel, abrowser, etc etc etc
<gnomefreak> iirc xulrunner doesnt bring in browsers
<gnomefreak> it doesnt depend on browsers but the other way around
<gnomefreak> i see icedtea was renamed
<directhex> gnomefreak, exactly. unless you want the | from hell in your depends, the way to offer an extension to all browsers is via depending on xulrunner
<directhex> gnomefreak, if it CAN'T be used by all browsers, then, well, welcome to | city
<gnomefreak> i wont know anything until i get around to looking at the *.rdf to find out what browsers it supports
<mok0> (two hours later) Oh, hi iulian :-)
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for a member of the SRU Team please
<Elbrus> Can anybody imagine a reason why you want to have the clean target depend on the configure and/or patch target
<nixternal> superm1: hey dude, are you in the same hotel as everyone else? I get in tomorrow at about 5pm there, so I will look you up if you are around
<azeem> Elbrus: maybe so you can run make distclean, for a autotools package
<azeem> though I don't think that makes a lot of sense
<Elbrus> it does have "make XXX_distclean" lines
<hefe_bia> Hi! Anybody care to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tomboy-blogposter ? Had one advocate and all the outstanding issues should be fixed now. I'd be happy ;)
<AnAnt> when's the UDS ?
<pochu> AnAnt: from Monday to Friday
<StevenHarperUK> OK, looks like no SRU's about : if any read this (from logs) can you have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/293903 it needs processing : thanks a lot
<AnAnt> I see
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293903 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.3.0-0ubuntu1" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<AnAnt> pochu: thanks
 * invaleed is away (Please give me hug)
<jdong> sigh I am a total idiot :)
<jdong> did you know that drag-drop Nautilus doesn't work well with iTunes?
<jdong> I guess the joke's on me for having a full GNOME stack on OS X then accidentally using gnome-open when I should've used open.
<Skiessi> aika hiljasta
<jdong> yikes that's my 2nd time being an idiot today.
<jdong> this time almost dpkg -i'ed something onto my Mac
<mok0> jdong: fink uses dpkg
<jdong> mok0: yeah to some degree it does, though I just happen to have dpkg installed from macports
<jdong> along with yum and rpm (don't ask; lots of fun)
<mok0> Oh, I see
<mok0> I use fink on my mac
<jdong> I use macports; somehow I've found packages in there to be better maintained.
<jdong> could just be the specific packages i use at specific moments in history that gave me that impression though
<jdong> ordinarily I would bias towards fink just because it uses dpkg/apt, but I was disappointied to find that only true for the binary packages.
<rww> i tried using fink a few times, but it somehow always seemed to mess up and break things :(
<mok0> jdong, Hm, my impression is there are alway update
<jdong> the source building system is *still* a ports-like build script backend
<jdong> not debhelper/debuild
<mok0> rww, just rm -rf /sw and start over :-)
<jdong> rww: glad I'm not the only one that experiences that!
<jdong> mok0: my macports tree has lasted me since 10.4.10
<jdong> minor rebuilding here and there to keep ABIs from breaking
<jdong> and I have all of GNOME, KDE4, and mono installed from macports too
<jdong> I've been told that I don't use my Mac correctly...
<mok0> What annoys me is that you always have to build the packages
<jdong> yeah IMO it wouldn't KILL them to build fairly up to date packages.
<jdong> macports and fink.
<mok0> which means you need to install all the build-deps in addition to the actual deps
<jdong> these systems don't differentiate between -dev and -bin
<mok0> jdong: exactly
<jdong> it is somewhat of a waste of space.
<jdong> I've not heard ANY good arguments why this is better
<jdong> other than it promotes lazy packaging and makes it easier to "install the stupid -dev packages" (not my words)
<mok0> The Gentoo people claims that it's faster; I don't believe that
<mok0> jdong: actually, in fink there _are_ dev packagees
<jdong> it might possibly be faster.
<jdong> but in reality IMO only a handful of packages benefit from such optimization.
<jdong> not the entire system blindly
<jdong> and neither fink nor macports ships with any kind of optimizing CFLAGS by default
<mok0> jdong, of course you can optimize for your Athlon or K8 or whatever
<jdong> not to mention you *KNOW* all Mac hardware are Core Duos with SSE2,SSE3,MMX anyway.
<jdong> the greatest common denominator is already large enough that additional CFLAGs wouldn't matter much on top of that
<mok0> jdong: except, just the time it takes to compile gcc easily makes up for any speed-gains in the next 100 years
<rww> mok0: hence me not using gentoo
<mok0> rww: yeah binary packages... woot
<retour> How to format/erase DVD-RAM under ubuntu
<jdong> (1) this is not a support channel
<jdong> (2) DVD-RAM should show up as a regular block device at /dev/dvd
<jdong> you can use mkfs just as if it were a hard drive.
<rww> retour: you probably want #ubuntu ;)
<retour> Sorry but I tried Ubuntu/Xubuntu chanels - no answers. I'm ignored. I've got DVD-RAM disks that were used in portable DVD player/recorder and 50% of the capacity is used by something nonvisible to me. Additionaly every DVD when automunts gives me errors because of a bug with access rights. I can aonly watch/access DVD's as root
<jdong> well being ignored in #ubuntu is not really an excuse to take t he topic into a channel that is not meant for support issues
<jdong> speaking of support, the issue at hand is Ubuntu really does not support DVD-RAM and DVD+RW writeable optical media
<jdong> the system mounts optical media read-only and not owned by the user in its default rules anyway
<retour> OK sorry. Just read what Masters chanell really is. Bye!
<jdong>       printf ("%g %f %f MB\n", f, f, f/1024000);
<jdong> *blinks*
<jdong> what the hell kind of byte is that?
<jdong> a MixiByte?
<jdong> the last time I've seen that definition was with 1.44MB floppies
<hefe_bia> Hi! Anybody interested in reviewing tomboy-blogposter, a small utility to blog about Ubuntu (and other topics) from Tomboy? ;) It's been advocated by mok0 and I think I have corrected all issues mentioned by dktrkranz. See http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tomboy-blogposter
<hefe_bia> I'll be here for feedback...
<goshawk> hi
<goshawk> if someone has free time, can please review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dsss ?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-07
 * jdong would like to point motu-sru and those interested in SRU's in general to read pitti's comment: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transmission/+bug/295040/comments/14
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295040 in transmission "multiple download works strangely" [High,Fix released]
<jdong> I agree with the message wholeheartedly; it doesn't matter if something's called 1.34-0ubuntu1.1 or 1.35-0ubuntu0.1.... it's all about what it does and how it fits with the goals of SRUs
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: Sure thing.  Look at what clamav we released Intrepid with and what it has now ...
 * jdong nods
<jdong> I'd like to do the same thing for VLC, but am wading through quite a bit of unnecessary or "unnecessary" packaging changes since 0..9.4
<jdong> the latter definition of "unnecessary" is probably 'it fixes some obscure bug I don't understand yet'
<ScottK-laptop> fixes/causes, but sure.
<ScottK-laptop> It is VLC after all.
<jdong> meh I don't expect VLC users to find little bugs here and there to be a surprise anyway :)
<jdong> or a security problem every other week...
<jdong> so far thank goodness -fstack-protector has simply kept the bugs down to DoS annoyances.
<__iron> hi
<__iron> just a question to mailinglist
<__iron> is it desired to introduce himself on mailinglist ?
<jmarsden> What is the rationale for there being an application that has source packages in Universe, but apparently no binary packages according to rmadison?  Is this "normal"?  (I'm looking at argus )
 * ScottK-laptop looks
<ScottK-laptop> jmarsden: Try rmadison argus-server
<jmarsden> Ah... OK.  Thanks.
<ScottK-laptop> The rationale is rmadison only looks up the package name you give it.  If the binary is named differently, it doesn't show up.
<jmarsden> OK.  There's no way to search on partial package names (other than apt-cache search) ?
 * jdong curses skype
<jdong> [   81.368501] type=1503 audit(1228608776.425:11): operation="inode_permission" requested_mask="::r" denied_mask="::r" fsuid=1000 name="/sys/devices/system/cpu/" pid=6648 profile="/usr/bin/skype"
<jdong> please don't touch that....
<jdong> [   81.780716] type=1503 audit(1228608776.834:12): operation="inode_permission" requested_mask="r::" denied_mask="r::" fsuid=1000 name="/home/jdong/Private/.mozilla/" pid=6653 profile="/usr/bin/skype"
<jdong> or that either.
<jdong> fortunately, it doesn't crash when I don't let it figure out what kind of CPU I have, my /proc/net/dev list, or my Mozilla profiles.
<emgent> someone know in what package is Gtk.pm ?
<emgent> ah found.
<jdong> emgent: as a long-time contributor it's probably in your interest to keep apt-file around and updated on your machine :)
<emgent> jdong: yeah found it
<emgent> but my perl script was a little issue
<emgent> heheh
<emgent> now i found it. and i fixed perl script too.
<kees> ScottK-laptop: I wonder if we could package clamav in ubuntu to take advantage of upstart so that clamd-killing-DoS vulns just cause it to restart?
<jdong> kees: do we have a set of packaging conventions yet how to or if to use upstart event files?
<jdong> I'd like to see more upstart work done :)
<jdong> *pokes UDS people*
<kees> jdong: all i have is examples from Keybuk's blog.  :P
<jdong> haha :)
<jdong> that's a bit out of date-ish too :)
<jdong> the job format AFAIK is due to change soon-ish
<jdong> hence why I wanted to know what's the big-picture roadmap for adopting Upstart
<kees> me too.  :P
<kees> I'll ask him at UDS
<jdong> awesomeness
<jdong> blame it on me if necessary, I just want to see more Upstart in jaunty!
<kees> hehe
<ScottK> kees: Interesting idea.
<zerwas> I don't know if this is the right place for my question - i will try it: Would it be O.K. to have a package of a p2p system (namely http://freenetproject.org ), that has an integrated update system and let it use this update system?
<laga> it's usually not OK
<laga> AFAIK :)
<zerwas> laga> the problem is that freenet always needs the latest builds to stay usable. and it's an anonymous network so every time a new build would come out, one would have to update through the package management, which is non-anonymous
<RainCT> zerwas: how often are there updates?
<zerwas> hm, depends. in the last time 3 times a week, sometimes a few weeks without updates
<tombee> How would I go about actually getting involved with development?  I've read the wiki about MOTU :)
<zerwas> it's still Freenet 0.7 though
<laga> zerwas: and how is getting the .deb initially "anonymous"?
<zerwas> it isn't, that's the problem
<RainCT> tombee: look for a bug and fix it :)
<tombee> RainCT: I'm really a beginner to development :P looking to learn
<tombee> Struggling to find an IDE I even like, used vim mostly before, but now my projects are becoming more complex it becomes more difficult to handle the files this way
<RainCT> tombee: do you want to contribute with packaging or coding?
<tombee> Ideally coding, but I'm not sure my skills would be immediatly up to scratch.
<RainCT> tombee: for coding the best would be to choose a project to which you want to contribute and get involved there. MOTU is about packaging
<tombee> Hehe I see ok :) Was just pointed in this direction with the 'beginning to get involved', thanks anyway :)
<zerwas> laga> so, what do you suggest in which way i should build the package?
<laga> zerwas: well, how is the problem "i can't download the package anonymously" different from " i can't update the package anonymously"?
<zerwas> laga> what i meant was: if one can see publicly when someone installs new build it might reduce the anonymity. But this problem is only second-tier. a package that would not use the update mechanism would be useless one week after jaunty got released
<laga> zerwas: yeah. maybe you can get a standing exception
<zerwas> that would be nice. i haven't found a better solution up to now
<laga> i'd suggest asking on the MOTU mailing list, explaining the problem etc.
<zerwas> okay. am i allowed to write on this ml without being a MOTU myself?
<laga> yes, but you need to subscribe AFAIK
<laga> if you don't subscribe, your mails will be moderated
<laga> i think ;)
<zerwas> k. thank you very much for your help so far :)
<anakron> Hi ALL
<anakron> Hi RainCT
<RainCT> hi :)
<anakron> :) i found another one
<RainCT> yeah, I've seen
<anakron> i have one question
<anakron> a tool called nss-updatedb is designed to work with libpam-ldap and libnss-ldap
<anakron> but they dont appear in suggests or depends
<anakron> and it cant work fine without these libs
<anakron> so, i want to make a patch for it :) changing dependencies+
<anakron> can you help me?
<RainCT> anakron: It's pretty much like your first patch. But I'd recommend asking in #ubuntu-server before you touch this (to be sure that the change is appropriate)
<anakron> ok :)
<anakron> RainCT, I can
<DRebellion> Are there plans to backport lintian 2.0.1 from jaunty-> intrepid? Currently intrepid is using 2.0.0.
<DRebellion> Sorry, I meant to say that the jaunty version of lintian is 2.1.0, not 2.0.1
<pmjdebruijn> lo
<pmjdebruijn> I'm trying to package something which uses the CC-BY-SA-3 license, but it's not included in /usr/share/common-licenses
<pmjdebruijn> how should I handle this?
<RainCT> pmjdebruijn: include it in debian/copyright
<azeem> you'll have to quote the whole license in debian/copyright then
<pmjdebruijn> verbatim?
<RainCT> yes
<pmjdebruijn> hmmm
<pmjdebruijn> isn't it about time CC licenses got included in common-licenses?
<ScottK-laptop> pmjdebruijn: No.  There isn't a huge amount of software licensed under CC.  The only real reason to add stuff is to save significant space in the archive.
<pmjdebruijn> ok
<DRebellion> sebner, Thanks for taking a look at cifer; I've fixed the issues you raised: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cifer .
<sebner> DRebellion: np, changes look good so far, in the evening I'll do a second review and then maybe advocate it
<pmjdebruijn> hmmm, pbuilder included with intrepid, doesn't do jaunty...
<DRebellion> pmjdebruijn, enable intrepid-backports
<pmjdebruijn> DRebellion: I just did
<DRebellion> pmjdebruijn, and it works now?
<pmjdebruijn> oh wait, I need to update debootstrap as well
<DRebellion> pmjdebruijn, yep
<pmjdebruijn> it works now
<pmjdebruijn> one of the copyright holders of a package I'm trying to make, does not publish his email adres... should I include a link to his "contact page/form" online?
<rjune_> I would say ask him
<lidaobing> help review iptux 0.4.2-0ubuntu1(new package): http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4186
<fta_uds> hi
<RainCT> hey
<RainCT> has UDS already started?
<fta_uds> nope
<iulian> Tomorrow.
<fta> sorry :)
<sebner> fta: haha, one day to early :P
<RainCT> iulian: I know.. I'm asking for the case there's some timezone weirdness :P
<RainCT> fta: heh
<fta> that's the one nick for all channels effect ;)
<sebner> RainCT: well California is -9h so it's also sunday there :P
<StevenK> It's Sunday, 9:30am currently.
<StevenK> And California is -0800
<RainCT> sebner: ^^
<rjune_> fta: is ogra about?
<sebner> StevenK: well I'm not from the UK so -9h :P
<StevenK> sebner: It's -19h from where I live
 * RainCT slaps sebner :P
<fta> lol
<RainCT> let's agree that it is "Pacific Standard Time (PST) -0800 UTC"
<RainCT> :P
 * sebner hides
<sebner> RainCT: math is calling :P
<RainCT> sebner: you can't hide from them, Google is watching you :P
<RainCT> meh
<sebner> NCommander: aloha, is it allowed to add license headers with a patch(-system)?
<NCommander> sebner, w.r.t. to what?
<sebner> NCommander: we don't accept source files with no license headers which means new upstrem release is necessary, I'm wondering if you can work around it with a patch (debian/pathes) which adds the license headers to the source files
<JontheEchidna> I wouldn't think so unless they have been added in an upstream svn/git/whatever
<NCommander> I would REJECT if I was an archive admin
<NCommander> As a rule of thumb, unless there is a technical reason or a file is uncopyrightable, the headers should go in it
<sebner> kay
<NCommander> If upstream is allowing you to add the headers and will add it in SVN/GIT
<NCommander> Repack the source tarball using DFSG, then note the reason iN README.source, and (optionally) in debian/changelog
<NCommander> *DFSG versioning
<sebner> NCommander: I see, there is a bad boy with no license headers and after my complains (revu) he added them himself -.-
<sebner> NCommander: where bad boy = upstream too
<Elbrus> does anybody now documentation about how to do bootstrapping for packaging? I think bug 67544 needs that, and I can look somewhat into that if I find documentation.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 67544 in fpc "PPC build of fpc fails" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/67544
<Elbrus> it works in debian
<Elbrus> (apparently
<sebner> Elbrus: NCommander is the FTBFS guy :P
<sebner> anyway thx for your help NCommander and JontheEchidna
<NCommander> fpc has issues on PowerPC last I saw
<Elbrus> NCommander: but it looks like it works for Debian: http://buildd.debian.org/pkg.cgi?pkg=fpc
<jdong> Amperage: -854
<jdong> now what would it take to mae Linux do that too?
<Elbrus> jdong: you can make money that way,
<jdong> I am guessing the equivalent Linux solution is get a bigger battery.
<NCommander> lol
<jdong> AFAIK OS X isn't even a tickless kernel... I'm curious as to how it pulls off more than a 2W improvement compared to Linux
<jdong> and that's after I've optimized my Linux setup the best i could; ASPM/ALPM
<NCommander> jdong, OS X has a lot of the default services disabled to prevent things from paging out and thus it can spin down the HDD
<NCommander> thus the better power usage curve
<jdong> disk idling only results in about 0.4W savings here.
<jdong> i.e. full spindown
<jdong> I boot Ubuntu into casper to RAM
<jdong> the disk is spun down 45s into initial boot
<jdong> 11.5W wifi on, 11.2W wifi off
<jdong> on OS X when I turn wifi off the battery meter jumps into the 6:30 arena
<jdong> 22 minute uptime, currently at 92%
<jdong> tat's roughly 300 minutes total runtime including the bootup flurry
<jdong> so the battery meter isn't lying right now
<DRebellion> sebner, hi! About the RPATH issue with cifer: neither i or my co-developer are running amd64 machines, so we can't use chrpath to test amd64 binaries from my ppa. Am I right in thinking that a simple call to chrpath like this, << chrpath --delete $(CURDIR)/debian/cifer/usr/bin/cifer >> will get rid of the RPATHs and solve the issue?
<DRebellion> I guess I need to build-depends on chrpath as well?
<sebner> DRebellion: right =)
<DRebellion> sebner, great : )
<sebner> DRebellion: you don't need an amd64 machine. you can download the amd64 binary from your ppa, unpack it and when you run chrpath on the binary it'll complain
<DRebellion> sebner, exactly
<DRebellion> so i can't --list them
<sebner> DreamThief: list?
<DRebellion> sebner, I downloaded from my ppa, extracted, and ran << chrpath --list ./usr/bin/cifer >>. It said: simrun@simrun-desktop:~/cifer-amd64/usr/bin$ chrpath --list cifer
<DRebellion> `cifer' probably isn't a 32-bit LSB-first ELF file.
<DRebellion> elf_open: Exec format error
<sebner> DRebellion: that means it has a rpatch issue, if you run chrpath on an i386 binary it won't complain
<DRebellion> sebner, oh right. Ok then.
<sebner> DRebellion: and you don't need the --list option :)
<DRebellion> sebner, btw, I don't need to check this build with DH_VERBOSE=1 because you already have?
<sebner> DRebellion: yes, it was just a side note for the future
<DRebellion> sebner, ok, fixed those issues, now building. I'll let you know when its in revu again.
<sebner> DRebellion: ok, you maybe again want to upload it to your PPA and recheck the amd64 binary
<DRebellion> sebner, yep, just a slight pain as i'll have to fork into two packages to bump the version number for the ppa :(
<bluefoxicy> did somebody pull Quake from the repos?
<DRebellion> sebner, ok, the ppa build is published. Downloaded the amd64 deb, extracted, ran chrpath:
<DRebellion> simrun@simrun-desktop:~/cifer-amd64/usr/bin$ chrpath cifer
<DRebellion> `cifer' probably isn't a 32-bit LSB-first ELF file.
<DRebellion> elf_open: Exec format error
<DRebellion> are you sure chrpath built for i386 can read amd64 binaries?
<Aggro> I got a package in Debian called Cppcheck and I would like to package it for Ubuntu. Is there some easy way to re-using existing work, or do I need to read Ubuntu's manuals about packaging and re-do everything (possibly reusing existing files?)
<Aggro> I'm not afraid of work, just want to make sure before I start working that I'm not doing something stupid ;)
<nhandler> Aggro: If it is in Debian, it will get synced into Ubuntu
<Aggro> nhandler: I don't need to do anything? It is automated process?
<Aggro> nhandler: I am the package maintainer for it in Debian
<nhandler> Up until DIF it is automated.
<Elbrus> nhandler: DIF= Debian import freeze???
<nhandler> Correct Elbrus
<nhandler> After that, you have to manually request a sync
<Aggro> I made a bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/306042
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306042 in ubuntu "please sync package cppcheck from debian Unstable" [Undecided,New]
<Aggro> "please sync package cppcheck from debian Unstable"
<nhandler> Aggro: When did you upload it in Debian?
<Aggro> nhandler: It was accepted to Unstable yesterday I think
<Aggro> nhandler: But it has been in the queue for 3 weeks or so
<nhandler> Aggro: You don't need a bug report. The package should make its way into Ubuntu within the week
<Aggro> I already made a bug report, should I undo it?
<Aggro> The wiki page was a bit misleading
<Aggro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<nhandler> Aggro: I would just close the bug report. There is no need for it
<Aggro> "For packages in Debian, but not in Ubuntu file a bug..."
<nhandler> Where is that?
<Aggro> nhandler: The url was given in my previous message
<nhandler> Aggro: Yeah, the wiki page should probably be modified. I'll change it now
<crimsun> Aggro: likely will be synced within the next 72 hours
<Aggro> But the progress is automated? All are Debian packages in Ubuntu? I had a feeling that there were less in Ubuntu?
<crimsun> Aggro: just about every source from Debian is in Ubuntu.  There are a few that are blacklisted.
<crimsun> Aggro: yes, up until DI, the process is automated (and thus the progress, too, I suppose).
<Aggro> nice
<crimsun> DIF*
<Aggro> nhandler: If I close the bug, what status should I set?
<nhandler> Aggro: I just updated the wiki page
<Aggro> invalid?
<DRebellion> sebner, i'm going to go ahead and upload the updated package to revu, as i can't test if using chrpath was a success. if there is still a problem, let me know.
<nhandler> Yeah, invalid is fine
<Elbrus> when do packages propogate from jaunty-released to jaunty?
<Elbrus> s/released/release
<geser> jaunty-release?
<nhandler> Aggro: Could you take another look at the wiki page and let me know if it is more clear now?
<Elbrus> that's where winff is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/winff
<Aggro> nhandler: You might want to clarify when is Debian Import Freeze (DIF), how does the person who is reading that know.
<Aggro> E.g. I have no idea when it is
<nhandler> Aggro: Good idea. I guess I can link to the Release Schedule for Jaunty
<Aggro> nhandler: What about if the person is ready to wait until the freeze is over?
<Aggro> nhandler: Then there is no need to submit a bug either?
<crimsun> Elbrus: that is jaunty proper.
<nhandler> Aggro: DIF is in effect until after the official release.
<Elbrus> Aggro: right, but then it will take an extra release before it is available
<nhandler> If they are willing to wait until the next Ubuntu release, no bug is needed
<geser> Elbrus: I don't know if "release" has any meaning there
<Elbrus> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=winff doesn't show anything...
<geser> Elbrus: winff is in DEPWAIT: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/winff/+builds
<Elbrus> aha.
<sebner> DRebellion: ok, and yes I'm sure that chrpath built for i386 can read amd64 binaries though it seems it wasn't sucessful in your case
<sebner> hi geser =
<sebner> =)
<geser> Hi sebner
<geser> Elbrus: and the successfull builds are in the NEW queue
<Elbrus> geser: you mean everything except  i386 and amd64?
<geser> yes
<DRebellion> sebner, hmm, that's strange... anyway i've fixed all the issues it seems then.
<Elbrus> lazarus-ide doesn't (or shouldnot) exist on ppc
<geser> if winff exist only i386 and amd64 you just need to wait till it gets NEWed
<nhandler> Aggro: The page now mentions when DIF is for jaunty
<Elbrus> geser: well, it will build on all systems (I hope) where lazarus-ide builds... (Arch is any)
<Aggro> nhandler: Should the timeline (week)? be added there also?
<Aggro> nhandler: How long it should take before it is not normal
<nhandler> Aggro: I don't think the week will mean anything to most people
<nhandler> I think a date is fine
<nhandler> If they really care about it, they can click on the link to the release schedule
<Aggro> nhandler: I mean the "it should be there within 1 week"
<nhandler> Aggro: The one week thing isn't exact. It could be less/more than a week.
<Aggro> nhandler: So it is not a cron script? ;)
<Aggro> But it should be obvious enough not to fool me as it is now
<nhandler> Aggro: It might be a cron script, I honestly cannot remember how they handle the automated syncs.
<Aggro> nhandler: Thanks for your help, this was much simpler than I thought. I'm glad I didn't start making a package of it again ;)
<nhandler> geser: Any idea when you will be able to review my application?
<nhandler> Aggro: You are welcome. Glad to have helped
<jdong> siretart: what are your opinions on simply copying VLC 0.9.8a into intrepid-security?
<jdong> I've only briefly looked at the diff and it doesn't look too bad
<RAOF> Hm.  Thinking of SRUs.  Any motu-sru's around?  It'd be nice to have some guidance on bug #287332
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287332 in evolution-sharp "beagle-backend-evolution cant find libedataserver-1.2.so.9" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287332
 * jdong looks
<jdong> jeez
<jdong> gonna need a moment to ponder this one :)
<RAOF> Basically, there are two options: new upstream version, breaking API and ABI, or trying to patch in support for new e-d-s without breaking either.
<jdong> primary rdepends seem to be Beagle and Tasque?
<RAOF> And gnome-do-plugins, and one other.
<RAOF> gfax, that's it.
<jdong> mmmkay and have we tested whether or not those things migrate properly, like build against the new evo-sharp?
<RAOF> Not yet, actually.  I'll do that now.
<jdong> I see beagle and tasque tested
<jdong> Pedro seems to have done those
<RAOF> Nifty.  I'll do gnome-do-plugins.
<jdong> if the other two work, I'll be positive on the idea :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-30
<jgoppert> RAOF: I've been pounding away at this but can't figure it out. Can you explain how I should use uupdate, i'm getting the same error with it, if i go to the old source tree and do uupdate ../new-tarball.tar.gz
<RAOF> jgoppert: The simple fallback is: unpack the new tarball, and simply copy the debian/ directory from the old package to the new directory.
<jgoppert> ok, i'll give that a shot
<jgoppert> ok so gdal 1.5 conflicts with gdal 1.6, can i just install the header files to /usr/include/gdal-1.6/* or something instead?
<superm1> hm requestsync doesn't work for syncing from contrib does it?
<superm1> (for a NEW package)
<RAOF> jgoppert: Probably not, although this depends on the precise situation.  Generally you don't want parallel installable -dev packages (which is where the headers go).
<jgoppert> ok, well i want to package delta3d which depends on gdal1.6, so should i just install the so's?
<jgoppert> RAOF: i guess maybe i could force a statically linked build of gdal and build delta3d against that?
<jgoppert> like just put the gdal source under a 3rd party folder on delta3d, might get kind of ugly though
<Laney> superm1: should do, with the -n flag
<superm1> Laney, i tried with the -n flag and it still didn't even find it in contrib
<Laney> sounds like a bug
<superm1> Laney, test@dell-desktop:~$ requestsync -d sid -n --lp libvdpau lucid
<superm1> E: The package 'libvdpau' does not exist in the Debian primary archive in 'sid'
<superm1> http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libvdpau&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<RAOF> jgoppert: Is there any particular reason why you wouldn't want to simply replace libgda's existing -dev package?
<Laney> superm1: interesting, seems to be a bug in the lp import
<Laney> works without --lp
<Laney> (https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/libvdpau/+publishinghistory shows nothing)
<Laney> or its just lagging
<superm1> awesome
<superm1> well as i look closer we need to have a delta to it anyway
<superm1> at least for now
<superm1> so maybe i'll just upload it to NEW myself with that delta
<Laney> fun
<superm1> it's stupid stuff too.  the maintainer doesn't want to drop a depends on something that is in contrib (for debian) / restricted (for ubuntu) because the package isn't useful without it he says
<superm1> blah
<superm1> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=558464
<ubottu> Debian bug 558464 in libvdpau1 "Please don't put libvdpau1 in contrib" [Wishlist,Open]
<superm1> wait what? Rejected:
<superm1> libvdpau_0.3-1ubuntu1.dsc: Format is not 1.0. This is incompatible with dpkg-source.
<superm1> how do i upload this to launchpad then?  it's format 1.8
<ScottK> superm1: Whine at #laundchpad-dev until they fix it.
<superm1> gah
<ScottK> Although I didn't know about a 1.8
<lifeless> 1.8?!wtf
 * ScottK thought it was 1.0 or 3.0 as valid choices
<lifeless> anyhow
<lifeless> 3.0 support is coming
<lifeless> wgrant has been working on it
<lifeless> but its not 'flick a switch' - its more complicated than that
<superm1> oh it is 3.0, just it says 1.8 in .changes
<superm1> debian/source/format says 3.0
<superm1> lifeless, so is there an ETA then?   does this means it's gonna fail just as hard on PPAs too?
<ajmitch> it'll fail hard everywhere in LP until all the bits are in place
<superm1> maybe for now so i can get this package in i should just revert it back to the old format for the ubuntu delta then
<superm1> and hopefully whenever it gets merged and/or synced in the future launchpad will support it by then
<ScottK> superm1: Will you have orig.tar.gz md5sum problems later if you do that now?
 * ScottK doesn't know enough about the new formats to know.
<superm1> well luckily enough dont need to change the orig.tar.gz at all
<superm1> so i dont expect so
<ajmitch> .orig.tar.gz should still be the same, but there'll be a diff.gz again instead of .debian.tar.gz
<ajmitch> the main things to watch will be if it uses patches
<superm1> not at this point
<ajmitch> then you may get away with uploading it as 1.0 format
<superm1> yay. looks like i did get away with it as 1.0 format
<superm1> so i'll just hope for now that by next time merging or syncing is necessary this is sorted out
<superm1> oh this is probably why it didn't show up in the LP import yet too then
<ajmitch> quite likely :)
<ajmitch> one of those few times that you wish that debian wouldn't move so fast
<JontheEchidna> it's not like the changes haven't been being discussed for long enough :s
<ajmitch> lots of things get discussed & implemented several months/years later :)
<JontheEchidna> I guess Debian moving at a normal rate is considered relatively fast? :P
<ajmitch> Debian moves when & where it will
<nigel_nb> maco: ping
<maco> nigel_nb: i cant talk right now. i just did a nice clean install of karmic on mum's computer and now it won't bot
<maco> *boot
<nigel_nb> maco: kewl, some other day then :)
 * maco throws pointy objects at GRUB
 * nigel_nb stands in GRUB's defence
<jgoppert> RAOF: if i replace libgdal 1.5 with libgdal 1.6 won't that break a lot of dependencies in karmic?
<jgoppert> can anyone help, i want to package delta3d, but it depends on lib gdal 1.6, but karmic has lib gdal 1.5, whats the best course of action?
<ScottK> jgoppert: Package it for lucid
<jgoppert> ScottK: lucid is still at libgdal 1.5, and i'm getting better at packaging but i'm not a pro yet, do i need a sponsor or something to do that
<ScottK> jgoppert: Yes, you will, but if we're going to switch, now's the time to do the transition in Lucid.
<jgoppert> do i need to contact the debian maintainer? its got no ubuntu revision
<ScottK> jgoppert: That would be smart.  We want to have the same versions in Squeeze and Lucid as much as we can.
 * jdong grumbles about clock accuracy with handbrake fetch stamps
<jdong> it wouldn't have killed them to use md5sums as a decision maker for whether or not to refetch
<jdong> ok, build #8 of the evening. gym time while that chugs away
<jgoppert> ScottK: If i am trying to deploy delta3d for a small network is there anyway around moving them all to lucid after the package has been updated?
<ScottK> jgoppert: You could backport the needed packages into a PPA
<jgoppert> ScottK: Ok that should work.
<jgoppert> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> You're welcome
<jgoppert> ScottK: There are like 3 other libraries that delta3d depends on that aren't in ubuntu, should we just add them to lucid?
<ScottK> jgoppert: Yes.  That would have to come first.
<jgoppert> ScottK: Can I recruit help somewhere, or a mentor to double check me and approve my packages?
<maco> all sponsors are responsible for checking and approving package changes
<ScottK> jgoppert: That's what we do here.  You can ask questions here anytime.  No need for a formal mentor to be assigned (although there is such a program)
<ajmitch> the debian gmaes team might be helpful as well
<ScottK> jgoppert: ajmitch has a good point.  It's called the Debian Games Team, but it's really Debian/Ubuntu.
<jgoppert> should i package through debian first?
<ScottK> Ideally.
<ScottK> bddebian: Are you still doing Debian Games stuff?
<bddebian> Not as much as I should be but yes
<wgrant> superm1: My 3.0 branch is approved. It just needs to be merged, which means I need to get a new dpkg everywhere, and blah blah blah urrrrghhhh messy.
<wgrant> superm1: So it should be ready in a couple of days.
<ajmitch> wgrant: that soon? excellent
<ScottK> bddebian: jgoppert is interested in getting a game packaged for Lucid (and potentially Squeeze)
<ScottK> bddebian: He's new, so be gentle.
<jgoppert> thanks ScottK
<bddebian> Heh
<wgrant> ajmitch: LP 3.1.11 is meant to be happening on Wed 2200UTC, I believe.
<wgrant> But I need to check with $CANONICAL_PERSON how the dpkg upgrade on cocoplum is going.
<ajmitch> hopefully without any problems or random segfaults
 * ScottK is struggling to maintain silence on the topic.
<ScottK> "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" is an interesting theory, but really hard sometimes.
<ajmitch> ScottK: I've heard of problems with backporting dpkg in the past, it's nothing specific to LP
<ScottK> ajmitch: No, my struggle is more about how unprepared LP is for this and my thoughts about how reasonable it is they didn't prepare.
<ScottK> I might also have some thoughts about how this reflects where distro support falls in their priorities, but I'm staying silent.
<ajmitch> no, you're really not
<wgrant> ScottK: Well, I don't think anybody expected Debian to do it for many years.
<wgrant> (however I agree with your distro support comment)
<ajmitch> the priorities seem to be enabling new & shiny ways to play with package branches at the moment
<lifeless> debian didn't expect to do it for years :)
<StevenK> So ScottK's problem is that LP people can't predict the future?
<ScottK> It's a release goal for Squeeze
<ajmitch> lifeless: and of course there's the backlash against the change on d-d :)
<wgrant> ScottK: And release goals are always met...
<StevenK> ScottK: Hah. Strawman
<ScottK> Of course they aren't always met.
<ScottK> OTOH, it shouldn't have been a great suprise someone worked on it.
 * maco ^5 StevenK
<ajmitch> it was a surprise that there's already talk of switching the default format already
<StevenK> Really, this is Debian's fault for getting 4 ftpmasters in the same room for a weekend
<StevenK> maco: Heh, for which bit?
<maco> StevenK: cant predict the future
<wgrant> It took all of not very long at all to implement it.
<ajmitch> wgrant: main problem being that dpkg-source is run outside the chroot?
<wgrant> ajmitch: That's the buildd side of things, yes.
<wgrant> But that's lamont's problem lalalala.
<ajmitch> lucky lamont
 * ajmitch would like try & get at least something landed into LP in the next release cycle
<StevenK> ajmitch: Ubuntu or Launchpad's? :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> LP, I've got stuff ready to upload to ubuntu when I get time :)
<ajmitch> in other news, loggerhead hates me when I try & open 10 tabs of individual revisions
<wgrant> ajmitch: They have a contractor working on that.
<ajmitch> good
<superm1> wgrant, spectacular, thanks
<pace_t_zulu> anyone want to help with a debian sync request?
<pace_t_zulu> or should i file a bug
<StevenK> pace_t_zulu: File a bug
<pace_t_zulu> StevenK, ty
<pace_t_zulu> virtualbox-ose
<pace_t_zulu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox-ose/+bug/490193
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 490193 in virtualbox-ose "Please sync virtualbox-ose 3.0.10-dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New]
<superm1> can someone else take a peek at this buildlog?  I must be going crazy. i don't see why it wouldn't be able to find the freetype library: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36246886/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.mythplugins_0.22.0%2Bfixes22924-0ubuntu0%2Bmythbuntu4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jmarsden> superm1: That does look odd.  Does it build OK locally (in your pbuilder chroot or similar)
<superm1> well the same source builds nicely on the PPA for intrepid, jaunty, and karmic daily.  i'm just setting up a lucid pbuilder locally to see
<jmarsden> OK.  So you might have found a bug in the libfreetype6 package for Lucid, or something along those lines.
<superm1> there's a very small diff from the karmic to lucid freetype
<superm1> but i wouldnt expect it to cause this kind of problem
<superm1> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35143239/freetype_2.3.9-5_2.3.11-1.diff.gz
<superm1> oh it's a new version too
<superm1> so that's gotta be where the problems are lying then
<superm1> jmarsden, yeah it was a freetype bug.  amazing what a misplaced period does. http://pastebin.com/f29be441d
<superm1> i'll upload that to lucid and send a patch to debian
<jmarsden> :)  OK, glad you found it.   Seems slightly odd that debian/libfreetype6.files needed to be hand edited for the new release at all, really...
<jmarsden> I can see maybe adding some new lines for new files... but why edit that one?
<LucidFox> Ugh... The copyright for so many of these files is written in French.
<LucidFox> (2mandvd data files)
<LucidFox> Ugh, the license terms for photo-libre.fr are:
<LucidFox> "These photos are totally free and copyright free, but they can not be resold or used in any medium for commercial purposes."
<LucidFox> How does "copyright free" mesh with "non-commercial"?
 * LucidFox deletes these files
<LucidFox> ...Gosh, this upstream needs to be educated what "free" as in free software means.
<maco> hahaha
<LucidFox> license.txt for .png files: "All these events have been found on the internet and was under a free license allowing a free non-commercial redistribution. Other came from tuxpaint project (http://www.tuxpaint.org). If you own one or more images and you do not want it to be in this package you can write me at: gibault.stephane@wanadoo.fr and I will remove them."
<maco> i assume they mean gratis all over that
<maco> sounds like multiverse
<LucidFox> Well, it depends on multiverse packages so it will go to multiverse anyway, but not before I clean up this copyright mess from "non-commercial" or unattributed image files.
<LucidFox> The software itself is GPL2+.
<maco> wait a...does it... "i dont have the right to redistribute these, but lets pretend i do and that im giving you the right to do so"?
<LucidFox> maco> I think the author just assumed that "non-commercial" is good enough to bundle with GPL software.
<maco> yeah
<maco> that the GPL is a non-commercial license is a common misconception too
<Flannel> LucidFox: How does "totally free" mesh with "but you can do X"
<LucidFox> Flannel> Ask the author of photo-libre.fr, I'm confused.
<LucidFox> So... 9 themes distributed under a French-language free license, 9 from a non-commercial "free" photo site, 25 completely unattributed.
<LucidFox> In short, I had to delete 34 out of 43 themes.
<maco> ouchies
<hyperair> sounds fun
<LucidFox> Okay, 2mandvd uploaded to REVU.
<LucidFox> Is there a way to subscribe to REVU package uploads by mail or RSS?
<nigel_nb> maco: got the computer working?
<maco> i think so
<nigel_nb> great :)
<nigel_nb> how many pointy things did u throw at it :P ?
<nigel_nb> maco: will you have the time to mentor me through MOTU?
<akheron> LucidFox: got any spare time? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jansson :)
<LucidFox> akheron> Just looked at it, was waiting for you to come back. :)
<akheron> heh :)
<LucidFox> Why is the -dev package so strangely declared? Contains soname number in the package name, and has Provides and Conflicts for libjansson-dev...
<LucidFox> Why not just name the package libjansson-dev?
<akheron> I mimiced it from somewhere
<LucidFox> ^_^
<akheron> from some random debian documentation, I guess
<akheron> I don't really know what's the best practice
<akheron> the library package has the SONAME in it's name, so why the -dev package doesn't have
<LucidFox> You'll only need Provides/Replaces for transitions. It's better to name the package libjansson-dev and drop the Provides and Conflicts lines.
<akheron> ok
<akheron> also, I wasn't sure about the document ID for doc-base
<akheron> is "libjansson" ok, or does it even matter as long as it's unique
<LucidFox> Doesn't, really. libjansson or jansson will do.
<akheron> ok, good
<akheron> Any other notes? I'll upload a new one shortly
<LucidFox> akheron> Nothing else I can think of.
<akheron> LucidFox: done
<LucidFox> Thanks, looking...
<akheron> It seems that my "shortly" equals over half an hour :)
<LucidFox> akheron> The -dev.install file is still named libjansson0-dev.install.
<LucidFox> It helps to build the package after making changes. ;)
<akheron> argh
<akheron> I did but didn't quite check it
<akheron> LucidFox: fixed
<akheron> :F
 * LucidFox downloads and builds
<LucidFox> akheron> Advocated!
<\sh> moins
<akheron> LucidFox: thanks a lot! :)
<alkisg> Hi, I'm using dh_installexamples, and on postinst I'd like to gunzip one of the examples to /etc/my-package. But I've noticed that when the example is small, dh_installexamples doesn't gzip it! Is that true? Is there any standard way to uncompress/view a package's examples?
<LucidFox> alkisg> gzip is done in dh_compress rather than dh_installexamples, so you can call dh_compress -Xfilename to ensure that the file in question is never compressed.
<alkisg> Thanks, looking...
<alkisg> Ah, I see where's the limit: "...files in usr/share/doc that are larger than 4k in size..."
<LucidFox> ScottK, I'm going to migrate quassel to dh 7 and --with=kde, and eventually add support for double builds. Would it be better to file both in one debdiff, or wait until the dh 7 version is uploaded and only then work on double builds?
<ScottK> LucidFox: I'd prefer to see them as separate patches.  Also Quassel in git has switched to gettext from translations.  Next on my list was to switch to a gettextified quassel.  If you could look at that with the dh7 stuff it'd be much appreciated.
<LucidFox> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/linux-libre <-- Wow, that's a slightly oversized diff.gz.
<ScottK> LucidFox: I think the package is pretty much unsuitable for the archive in any case.
 * LucidFox nods
 * ScottK just left a comment to that effect on REVU.
<directhex> LucidFox, OOo's is bigger!
<LucidFox> Seriously? What is in there, tons of big patches?
<directhex> LucidFox, OOo is... complicated
<directhex> LucidFox, in short, "yes"
<directhex> openoffice.org_3.1.1.orig.tar.gz 	394,144.4 kB
<directhex> openoffice.org_3.1.1-5ubuntu1.diff.gz 	96,076.5 kB
<LucidFox> It's a shame that the best free office suite out there in something so out of touch with both GNOME and the Unix philosophy.
<LucidFox> s/in/is/
<directhex> if memory serves, orig is a tar-in-tar of upstream sun OOo (actually 15 upstream tarballs)
<LucidFox> O_O
 * LucidFox headdesks.
<directhex> the patch set is a 214 meg diff
<directhex> including a uuencoded copy of an entire icon set
<directhex> ( ooo-build/src/ooo_oxygen_images-2009-06-17.tar.gz.uu                                            |317713 +++++++++)
<directhex> the diff is basically the entire go-oo patchset, including (e.g.) 334,000 lines of VBA test scripts
<directhex> LucidFox, building OOo takes about 101 gig of space and 10 hours of core2duo
 * LucidFox O_O
<directhex> bah
<directhex> 10 not 101
<directhex> oh, and lots of RAM too
<LucidFox> directhex, if the diff includes the entire go-oo patchset, why not just build off go-oo sources?
<directhex> LucidFox, no such thing, go-oo is just a patchset. despite claims by some individuals on some gutter press
<directhex> LucidFox, it's just a big honkin' patchset
<LucidFox> They do provide a tarbal on go-oo.org, no?
<LucidFox> * tarball
<directhex> the tarball contains their build system, but not the ooo source
<alkisg> On postinst, I'm generating a /etc/my-package/my-package.conf file. Upon uninstallation, when is the correct time to remove it? On prerm when "$1"=="purge"? (I'm worried about the /etc/my-package dir being correctly deleted if empty).
<alkisg> Or should I manually check and remove the /etc/my-package dir on postrm if it only contains my-package.conf?
<alkisg> Hmmm I don't see prerm called with "$1" == "purge"... Only postrm: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html
<Laney> why not postrm?
<Laney> that's when conffiles are usually deleted
<alkisg> I think when postrm is called, the package files are already removed,
<alkisg> so I wanted to delete it beforehand, so that dpkg would remove the directory by itself, if that directory was empty (/etc/my-package)
<alkisg> Well I guess I can delete that directory myself, on postrm...
<Laney> http://www.marga.com.ar/~marga/debian/diagrams/remove-purge.png
<Laney> I don't know if "Conffiles are deleted" is in the right place there...
<alkisg> I only want to delete that file on purge, so I guess I don't have much choice... I'll do it on "postrm purge"
<alkisg> Thanks for the nice diagram! :)
<lfaraone> How can have debuild run "autogen.sh" before running "configure" using CDBS?
<lfaraone> Figured it out, thanks.
<Laney> you probably want the DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_* stuff instead, lfaraone
<Laney> that's the cdbsey way of doing these things
<lfaraone> Hm.
<lfaraone> Laney: how do I figure out whether I run libtoolize pre or post?
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> I suck at this stuff
<lfaraone> And it looks like the script also runs "gtkdocize" as part of autogen.
<Laney> well, it depends why you want to reautogen
<lfaraone> Laney: upstream does not believe in shipping configure in git.
<Laney> as they should
<lfaraone> And their released versions are broken on the most recent version of GTK
<Laney> it might be right to just run autogen.sh then - I was thinking you were doing an autoreconf
<Laney> alternatively run it before you generate the orig (in your get-orig-source)
<lfaraone> Laney: so I could do that with "DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT := ./autogen.sh
<Laney> use a full path
<Laney> and make sure your clean target deletes the right stuff
<lfaraone> Laney: hm. now it builds, but "install" is giving me errors.
<lfaraone> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/331694/
<Laney> lfaraone: Looks like it repeats some filenames on the install line
<Laney> which causes the error
<slytherin> ttx: there?
<ttx> slytherin: yes
<lfaraone> Laney: hm. but it works when I "make install" it locally.
<lfaraone> Laney: how would I go about fixing that?
<Laney> check the autotools files to find out why it happens Â¬_Â¬
<slytherin> ttx: Are you planning to drop -gcj from recommends unconditionally in this cycle? There are no arch now where GCJ is main JDK. Also openjdk seems to work well on all arch.
<slytherin> all as in the ones I have tested, i386, amd64 and powerpc
<ttx> slytherin: yes, see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-java-library-fixes
<slytherin> great, I will keep an eye
<ttx> slytherin: though the change is not acceptable in debian so we need to find the best way of doing it (introduce delta or not)
<slytherin> hmm
<ttx> slytherin: this is discussed in the spec, I'd welcome your input
<ttx> slytherin: see 6.1 in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidJavaCleanupSpec
<ttx> slytherin: in all cases we get rid of the arch:any trick
<slytherin> ttx: Will check.
<ttx> slytherin: thx
<slytherin> ttx: By the way, I am not sure how reasonable this request is but in future we should probably have a separate java component in archive reorg. So that we get rid of these dependency problems.
<LucidFox> ScottK> bug #490347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 490347 in quassel "Migrate to dh 7 and --with=kde" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/490347
<ScottK> LucidFox: Diff looks good.  I'll try to get it uploaded tonight.  Thanks.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Laney> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Laney
<shankhs> hi i am learning packaging and I couldnt understand the *.ex files.Can anyone please explain it?Please
<Daviey> shankhs: those are example files, generally you want to get rid of them.
<shankhs> why?
<Daviey> You can use them as a template (if that file is needed)
<shankhs> when are templates neccessary?
<Daviey> most of them are not required for most packages.
<Daviey> they are ex(amples) :)
<shankhs> Daviey: thanx i got it
<Daviey> great!
<shankhs> When i see the changelog of hello file(in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic ) i dont see any -0ubuntu1 or ubuntu written anywhere.Did I do anything wrong?Please
<shankhs> i am following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
<shankhs> My changelog is totally different from this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
<jpds> shankhs: Can you put your changelog's contents on paste.ubuntu.com?
<shankhs> jpds: http://paste.ubuntu.com/331820/ i tried dch once
<shankhs> hi
<jpds> shankhs: It looks like you're suppose to create the -0ubuntu1 entry, simply change the -1 to -0ubuntu1.
<shankhs> ok
<shankhs> jpds: thanx
<jdstrand_> dholbach: hi! my ubuntumembers membership expired while I was on vacation. what is the best way to get it back? (my indirect membership via core-dev doesn't seem to give my cloaking, etc)
<dholbach> jdstrand_: that's weird - just send a quick mail to community-council@lists.u.c and I'll unexpire you
<jdstrand_> dholbach: ok, thanks
<jdstrand_> dholbach: sent
<rcbwnka> jdstrand_: Cloakes are just bad. You cannot be recognized after some years.
<Pici> rcbwnka: A cloak is the text that replaces a person's hostname on IRC. Ubuntu members qualify for ubuntu/member/$username
<rcbwnka> Who cares ?
<rcbwnka> I thought the contributions made should be worth something. Not people taking cover ?
<rcbwnka> They appeared 2003, right along with Beagle.EXE and other microsoft things
<lfaraone> rcbwnka: it's a nice touch.
<lfaraone> Do libpam plugins need to be named accoridng to their soname version? (ie libpam-rainbow2 vs libpam-rainbow)
<rcbwnka> No, i shouldnt think so
<rcbwnka> so name is always "so" though ;)
<rcbwnka> so.number
<rcbwnka> But, itll make it easy to keep track of. should you not do so your app will never (or should never) see the day of light
<rcbwnka> app name: hello-there. Libname1: hello-there.1.x.x
<rcbwnka> Or better yet...
<rcbwnka> app name: hello-there. Libname1: hello-there-1.1.x.x
<rcbwnka> app name: hello-there. Libname2: hello-there-2.1.x.x
<rcbwnka> As specific as possible
<lfaraone> rcbwnka: I mean should the package be named "libpam-rainbow2" or "libpam-rainbow"?
<rcbwnka> well, It seems to be a new version that will diverge enough from the original "rainbow" ?
<rcbwnka> To be a mayor version upgrade/release ?
<rcbwnka> Otherwise just call it the same.
<rcbwnka> Client / server ?
<rcbwnka> Then dont change the name, add a min-client-version.
<rcbwnka> rainbow six was a bit fun btw
<rcbwnka> lfaraone: seems ok to you ?
<rcbwnka> Write down what ever scheme you go for.
<randomaction> DktrKranz: ping
<DktrKranz> randomaction: pong
<randomaction> DktrKranz: I'm going to request a sync of xotcl, are you ok with this?
<randomaction> bug 399157
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 399157 in xotcl "Please merge xotcl 1.6.3-2(universe) from debian unstable(main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/399157
<DktrKranz> randomaction: sure
<randomaction> ok, I'll convert this bug
<TLF> hello
<TLF> where can I contact the developer of vmware-package package?
<TLF> well, anyways
<TLF> trying to install vmware-package 0.22 I'm getting: vmware-package:
<TLF>  Depends: libstdc++5  but it is not installable
<randomaction> TLF: there's a bug filed about it (bug 459286)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459286 in vmware-package "can not find dependencys" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459286
<TLF> oh, thanks, ubottu
<randomaction> anyway, this package was removed from Debian and will likely be removed from the next Ubuntu release
<ScottK> TLF: That needs an ancient version of gcc that we aren't supporting anymore. It should have been removed already.
<TLF> ScottK: and it is not possible to update the package?
<ScottK> TLF: No.  It's not a Free software package, we only have binaries, no source
<TLF> ScottK: oh, I though it was a open source program to install the binaries (vmware=
<ScottK> Right, but the binaries have to be built against a recent GCC and we don't have that
<TLF> oh
<TLF> that's ok then :)
<ajmitch> from what I can see, vmware-package itself doesn't have the libstdc++5 dependency, which is partly why it didn't get picked up
<TLF> bye
<dupondje> g
<surfzoid> Hi
<surfzoid> i'm trying to build a package an have the following error : http://pastebin.com/d7eebf6e1  but my log file is http://pastebin.com/d673c4a7a i really don't see where i do an typo error
<surfzoid> someone can give me a clue ?
<ajmitch> surfzoid: 1 too many spaces before the date
<surfzoid> whoa is it so strict !!
<surfzoid> oki
<ajmitch> it can be :)
<ajmitch> try it, I may be wrong
<surfzoid> ajmitch: thanks
<ajmitch> the other problem can be using tabs instead of spaces before the *
<ajmitch> usually there's a blank line after the line with the version information, though I'm not sure if it's required or not
<surfzoid> well, i discover the creasy stric build world :-)
<surfzoid> ajmitch: is there a tool or an scite plugin who check debian file syntax or at least colour them ?
<ajmitch> there are tools like dch which add the changelog entries, I use emacs however which has some modes for editing changelogs
<surfzoid> this is an know format like verylog ?
<ajmitch> sorry?
<surfzoid> yes debian.changelog use an specif format or this a know one
<ajmitch> it's a specific format documented in debian policy
<surfzoid> if you take spec file for rpm, you can use shell syntax/format and color
<ajmitch> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-dpkgchangelog has the details, it's fairly basic
<surfzoid> so i will play more with luky :-)
<surfzoid> hey seem okay with your few tip, thanks a lot ajmitch :-)
<surfzoid> debian world sound like an egg :-)
<ajmitch> there are lots of useful tools around for packaging though
<surfzoid> yes, using a simple text editor (my favorite) is no easy
<surfzoid> bye and again thanks
<jjlee> does the ppa build server actually install packages?  I assume not?  If it doesn't, what do you use for testing (install-)Depends?  Just debootstrap + apt?
<mannyv> geser, around?
<geser> mannyv: yes
<mannyv> highvoltage, I have been using requestsync a but lately and I got annoyed at always having to go to launchpad to add a build log as an attachment after filing the sync request. So I modified it a little bit so I could specify a log on the command line.
<mannyv> geser ^
<mannyv> stupid auto-complete, I always mess it up
<mannyv> so then I thought why not try to get it into the package, so I have beenn working on it being able to send an attachment via email as well.
<jmarsden|work> jjlee: You could set up a pbuilder chroot and install/test the PPA-built packages in that.
<jjlee> yeah, just looking at that -- ISTR another one, can't seem to find it now
<jjlee> another tool, I mean
<geser> jjlee: or try using puiparts for it
<jjlee> other than cowbuilder
<jjlee> that was it, thanks
<mannyv> geser, that is close to being done. The part I am grappling over is when it prints out a final copy of the email if it should print out, for review, just the body of the messageor include the attachment as well. I thought I would solicit an opinion from you since you wrote it
<geser> mannyv: have you something ready to merge/review?
<jjlee> so ppa server doesn't install packages?
<mannyv> i wanted your thoughts re: my last message first, so I would no where to go with it
<jmarsden|work> jjlee: No, the builders are build servers, AFAIK they do not install the stuff they build.
<jjlee> jmarsden|work: fair enough
<jjlee> would be a nice feature :-)
<jmarsden|work> jjlee: Maybe; you're supposed to test locally before submitting to a PPA anyway though :)
<jjlee> well, it worked first time anyway :-)
<geser> mannyv: the idea behind is to let the user an option to actually see what it send/submitted before it gets done, especially as it gets signed (when mailing)
<geser> but I don't have a strong opinion on it
<geser> I've have to look up what it did before my recent modifications to requestsync
<mannyv> geser, yeah build logs tend to be long and scrolling through a whole log to see the message can be annoying. So i am thinking I will set it so it prints out the body of the email but not the attachment
<mannyv> geser, I also rewrote the email part so it uses the email package, you don't have an issue with that do you?
<geser> as I didn't had to email attachments to LP till now, do you know which parts of the email need to be signed to let LP accept it? is the "normal" content enough and will LP add the attachment to the bug report?
<lifeless> for requestsync
<lifeless> is target release optional or not ?
<Laney> it should be
<Laney> but the flag parser is a bit rudimentary
<Laney> so sometimes it is actually not
<lifeless> $ requestsync -d unstable python-testtools
<lifeless> E: Source package or target release missing. Exiting.
<Laney> yep
<lifeless> should I file a bug ?
<Laney> a patch would be better ;)
<Laney> but yeah, file a bug if you like
<geser> depends, when using --lp it's optional (it can be looked up with LP API) but for mail it's needed
<Laney> well
<Laney> I've come across some cases where it's not optional
<Laney> we should make it -u [ubuntu release]
<lifeless> mm, --lp is happier, so I'll ignore the bug for now
<geser> yes, when you omit --lp I don't know a way to look it up without LP API
<lifeless> geser: hard code it.
<Laney> that would ease the parser
<lifeless> geser: each release, update it.
<jgoppert> I would like to get gdal from 1.5 to 1.6 in ubuntu. It already is in sid, who do I talk to?
<Laney> jgoppert: will they be around in parallel?
<Laney> if not, how big is the transition?
<jgoppert> well ScottK was saying the other night we should just go to 1.6 for lucid.
<Laney> sure
<jgoppert> Not too big, I am just about done building 1.6 on my ppa.
<Laney> if it's small, you can handle it yourself
<geser> lifeless: I thought about it, but then I (or someone) needs to update it short before the release (if we don't want to do a SRU for it)
<Laney> otherwise coordinate on the list
<jgoppert> Ok, so can someone look over my package on my ppa and commit it to lucid?
<jgoppert> I had to back down a couple of dependencies to earlier library versions but it looks like config handled it just fine.
<Laney> erm
<lifeless> geser: its the same as all our dev tools.
<Laney> usually you would get those updated first
<lifeless> geser: debootstrap etc need changed too.
<jgoppert> yeah... well its just libhdf5-dev, and libhdf4-alt-dev, unless those have more dependencies to fix :-)
<geser> yes, but I prefer not to add another package to the list of packages that needs backporting for each new ubuntu release
<Laney> let's hope this 'ubuntu-release' tool gets written
<jgoppert> what's it supposed to do?
<Laney> abstract this problem
<mannyv> geser, I just did a test and it only requires the email body be signed not the attachment
<geser> mannyv: then IMHO it should be enough to just list the attachments (filename) before sending/submitting
<jgoppert> if gdal 1.6 is in sid do i need to attach source tarball on my ppa build for karmic?
<Laney> is it a sync?
<mannyv> geser, sold =)
<Laney> wait
<Laney> jgoppert: did you see which version we have in lucid?
<jgoppert> Laney: yeah 1.5
<Laney> source package gdal?
<jgoppert> well where should i look, i went to ubuntu package search
<Laney> launchpad or rmadison
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdal
<Laney> jgoppert: however, there is still transitioning to be done
<Laney> see http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/libgdal1-1.5.0
<jgoppert> ok, nice, so how do i get it on my karmic ppa, pull the source, then build? Or is there a way to backport  from lucid?
<Laney> just upload the source package with a ~ppa0 version suffix
<jgoppert> ok thanks
<Laney> hang on
<Laney> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdal/1.6.2-1
<Laney> it didn't build yet
<Laney> (due to the hdf stuff you mentioned earlier)
<jgoppert> oh, well I guess my quick fix will work for my ppa till they clean it up
<Laney> why "they"?
<Laney> you could do it..........
<geser> and who is "they"?
<jgoppert> lol, because i'm trying to get like 6 libraries running to package delta3d, :-)
<jgoppert> i've got one person helping me though lol
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-01
<Laney> the hdf5 delta is really small
<jgoppert> I'm really new. I have time but I probably need some help to work on a real package as of yet.
<Laney> you have found a good little set of tasks here
<Laney> we will help you
<jgoppert> so if i'm reading this right we no longer need hdf4-alt-dev ?
<jjlee> do I really have to create a repository with some other tool when using piuparts -a?
<jjlee> I have a .deb, and want to test that its dependencies are sufficient
<jjlee> I was hoping that a tool such as piuparts would do the repository creation for me
<Laney> jgoppert: it's still around in Debian
<jgoppert> jjlee: pbuilder build *.dsc
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ping
<jjlee> ah, ok -- that puts a repo in some well-known location by default?  and piuparts will find it, like it did the base.tar.gz?
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Pong
<jgoppert> Laney:  * Upload to unstable, due to hdf4 -alt support transitioned from experimental.     (closes: #540403)
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, while removing havp with --purge option, I get this warnings: dpkg: warning: while removing havp, directory '/var/log/havp' not empty so not removed. dpkg: warning: while removing havp, directory '/var/lib/havp' not empty so not removed.. Would it make any sense do: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/332019/
<jgoppert> Does that mean we don't need it any longer in ubuntu?
<Laney> no
<Laney> I don't know what that transition was, but Debian hasn't removed the package so we probably don't want to either
<jgoppert> Laney: Ok, so where do I start, pull hdf5 from sid and put in on my ppa?
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Probably.  That's the kind of decisision I'd want to follow Debian on, so I'd talk with cemc and take the question to Debian.  I wouldn't want to maintain a permenant diff for this.
<Laney> jgoppert: You need to "merge" it into Lucid (forget about your PPA for now). See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok awesome. Will file a bug in Debian. Thanks :)
<jgoppert> oh boy, any cliff notes? can you walk me through it a bit
<Laney> yep yep
<Laney> download the Debian package, figure out if we still need the Ubuntu changes and apply them if so
<jgoppert> ok so dget something, whats the quickest way to find the url, debian package search?
<Laney> use pull-debian-source from the ubuntu-dev-tools package
<jgoppert> yeah the little stuff like that helps, i've been doing stuff the hard way, takes forever
<jgoppert> ok i got it
<jgoppert> do i do a diff against the ubuntu, how does that work?
<Laney> you can grab it from patches.ubuntu.com
<Laney> http://patches.ubuntu.com/h/hdf5/hdf5_1.6.6-4ubuntu2.patch
<Laney> also merges.ubuntu.com might have it
<jgoppert> lol ok so there is one real diff?
<jgoppert> i have no idea why we need this though         /* do compressed data write */
<jgoppert> -        output = open(filename, O_RDWR | O_CREAT);
<jgoppert> +        output = open(filename, O_RDWR | O_CREAT, S_IRWXU);
<Laney> see the changelog
<Laney> I reckon it was to fix a build failure
<Laney> you can check that location in the new package to see if they took the patch
<Laney> otherwise try a build and check if it works now
<ajmitch> it's to set the permissions of files that get created
<Laney> yeah
<ajmitch> I'm sure there was a good reason for it at some point
<Laney> the new compiler flags would FTBFS on it right?
<jgoppert> ok checking theirs for the fix
<ajmitch> according to the changelog, it's needed for -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE
<Laney> right
<Laney> i'm off to bed
<jgoppert> wait my debian is at 1.6.2, did it pull from stable and I need unstable?
<ajmitch> night
<Laney> now that ajmitch has turned up :)
 * ajmitch isn't really here
<Laney> LIES
<jgoppert> Laney: Thanks for the help
<jgoppert> oh no.. abandoned, lol
<Laney> no problem, feel free to bug ajmitch all you want!
<ajmitch> *cough*
<Laney> (it pulled from testing and not unstable)
<Laney> ttyl!
<jgoppert> see ya
<ajmitch> even testing should have 1.8.3-2.1
<jgoppert> looks like you can specify it with pull-debian-source gdal sid
<ajmitch> ah, you're talking about gda1 again, not hdf5
<jgoppert> yeah well we need to fix both i guess, hdf5-serial and hdf4-alt are dependencies
<jgoppert> the automated merge failed due to them, i fixed it by backing up the library deps to earlier versions on my ppa but Laney yelled at me lol
<jjlee> jgoppert: are you sure that pbuilder --build creates a repository?  seems it just builds a package
<jjlee> jgoppert: what I wanted to do was test install dependencies, not build deps
<jjlee> jgoppert: hence need for a repo to give to piuparts -a
<jgoppert> jjlee: pbuilder create a chroot and installs all the dependencies, if your package fails to build then you know you are missing some
<jjlee> jgoppert: sure -- but that wasn't what I was trying to do
<jjlee> I already knew my build deps were ok
<jjlee> it was my *install* deps I wanted to test
<jjlee> I want to install my package using apt-get in a clean chroot, then run the packaged program
<jgoppert> haven't done that before, i just have the same build and install deps most of the time except like autotools etc
<jgoppert> if you are talking like the dev package
<jjlee> fair enough
<jgoppert> otherwise shlibs should do that for you, no need to check
<jjlee> shlibs?
<jgoppert> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<jgoppert> you've seen that line before right, well it finds all the symbols that require linking and does it automatically
<jjlee> this is a Perl package
<jgoppert> oh, well if its script no need to worry about binary packages right?
<jjlee> but there is a need to worry about install dependencies
<jjlee> for example, my install dependencies might be missing a package that provides a required CPAN module
<jjlee> only way to find out is to install it in a clean environment and run the tests (if there are any)
<jjlee> well, not the *only* way, of course -- but it's a good test
<jgoppert> i see your problem, maybe use virtualbox and go for it? lol ouch
<jjlee> somebody did it at work already, I'll see what we do there (just cobbled together multiple tools, including pbuilder, I think)
<jgoppert> yeah you can do a pbuilder login and you get a shell in the chroot
<jjlee> I was just hoping there was some tool that made it easy(ier)
<jgoppert> well seems to me like you'd almost need a test suite, how is anything going to know what you call from your script
<jjlee> right, the tool can't know that part (well, a tool could do static analysis, but that's a different thing)
<jjlee> what I was hoping for was to write test-my-debian-package-install-dependencies my-debian-package.deb --components 'main universe' --run test-my-debian-package.sh
<dtchen> jjlee: are you familiar with piuparts?
<jjlee> dtchen: we just went around that loop ;-)
<jgoppert> well i know nothing bout piuparts, so maybe someone else could help you
<jjlee> I can see what I need to do
<jgoppert> good luck
<jjlee> just need to run some tool that creates a repo, then pbuilder to create chroot, then run piuparts (and/or manual apt-get + test)
<dtchen> I don't see why you need pbuilder for that scenario
<jjlee> dtchen: want a clean chroot
<dtchen> piuparts will create the base install environment
<dtchen> I did a short classroom on this last year
<jjlee> dtchen: you're probably right, but it complained at me when I tried it just now.  Ran pbuilder --create and it stopped complaining.
<dtchen> oh, I see what you're referring to
<dtchen> for some reason I thought you wanted to login to the chroot
<jjlee> I'm a little surprised that everybody doesn't do this
<jgoppert> i'm really new to all of this, sure the pro's do
<jjlee> thanks all, bye
<bddebian> dtchen: Are you avoiding me? :)
<dtchen> bddebian: hi
<dtchen> bddebian: err, no, I've been on holiday for the past few days
<bddebian> dtchen: I figured, I'm just kidding. :)
<bddebian> dtchen: If you get time, libsdl1.2 1.2.14 is in experimental if you could do some testing..
<dtchen> bddebian: yep, I'll work on that alongside the userspace alsa-{lib,plugins} debugging; thanks!
<dtchen> now if only I had non-craptastic hw on which to test :/
<dtchen> it's much easier to wave hands and say "but it works on Conexant HDA!"
<bddebian> heh
<nxvl_> slangasek: ping
<nxvl_> slangasek: re vimperator> do i need to bump the version or re-upload with the same version?
<slangasek> nxvl_: version needs bumped because the source is already in the archive
<nxvl_> slangasek: ok
<nxvl_> that's what i though
<nxvl> thought
<nigel_nb> maco: evening :)
<fabrice_sp> jgoppert, bug 489882
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 489882 in hdf5 "Sync hdf5 1.8.3-2.1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489882
<fabrice_sp> someone already worked on the merge/sync
<fabrice_sp> so you just have to wait for a nice archive admin to process the sync :-D
<jgoppert> nice :-) thanks
<fabrice_sp> yw :-) Hope you didn't spent a lot of time with this merge
<jgoppert> lol no i gave up once laney left
<fabrice_sp> lol
<jgoppert> i've been packaging a bunch of other stuff on my ppa with the help of bddebian
<fabrice_sp> ok :-)
<fabrice_sp> cool
<fabrice_sp> bdrung_, about bug 490387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 490387 in monkeystudio "Please sync monkeystudio 1.8.4.0~beta1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/490387
<fabrice_sp> I'm not able to build monkeystudio.. How did you do it?
<fabrice_sp> jgoppert, are the pacakges already in Ubuntu?
<fabrice_sp> just curious :-)
<jgoppert> not for most of them, had to make my own gdal temporarily, new: boost-numeric-bindings, gnelib, hawknl, open-dis, premake, and uvsim my project from sf
<jgoppert> trying to package delta3d right now
<fabrice_sp> a lof of new packages, then !
<fabrice_sp> good luck :-)
<jgoppert> thanks, yeah its been a learning experience
<fabrice_sp> just in case: debian/copyright is a very important file in the package and does not get, most of the time, the required attention ;-) So if you are looking for sponsorship to get the packages into Ubuntu or Debian, this file should be accurate
<jgoppert> thanks fabrice, i'll be sure to look over mine before i ask someone
<jgoppert> how do i do an itp, i've packaged all of these new packages but kind of skipped that part
<stefanlsd> jgoppert: I would check if debian has an ITP first, and assist there. You can do it there (create on with their process), or do it on Ubuntu by filing a need packaging bug on launchpad
<jgoppert> ok is there like an equivalent of ubuntu-motu over there?
<lifeless> debian-mentors
<jgoppert> thanks
<lifeless> but ubuntu-motu can help you out regardless
<jgoppert> thanks
<stefanlsd> also see http://wiki.debian.org/Maintainers
<jgoppert> how do i check if this program runs correctly in debian? Is there a way to get graphics windows inside a chroot from pbuilder?
<jmarsden> jgoppert: Yes, but I forget the details... I tend to run Debian in a Virtualbox VM for that sort of testing instead...
<jgoppert> ok, yeah i made one just in case :-/ my virtual box with sid on it has the internet cut out during downloads every couple minutes and i have to rerun the apt-get install or whatever, kind of annoying, does your's work correctly?
<jmarsden> Yes, works fine for me here... or did last time I used it, let me check :)
<jmarsden> jgoppert: Yes, seems fine here, I'm seeing my usual 1.1MBytes/sec download speed, no dropouts downloading a Debian CD1 .iso using wget...
<jgoppert> that's good, are you using nat?
<jmarsden> Host networking for virtualbox-ose... NAT in the router (Verizon FIOS connection to Internet, 10Mbps down/2Mbps up)
<jgoppert> maybe thats my problem, i was on nat
<jmarsden> jgoppert: I don't know, I always use host networking so I can ssh into my virtualbox VMs :)
<jgoppert> that's pretty cool, lol would be useful
<jgoppert> delta3d 24% done, crossing fingers.. have to love late night packaging.. no line for the build farm lol
<jmarsden> jgoppert: :)  It's *really* better to build it locally first, so you don't need to cross any fingers, you know :)
<jgoppert> yeah this is the first time i'm building it locally.. i'm just saying soon enough its off to the build farm, 41% now :-)
<jgoppert> i had to get like 4 new libraries packaged, i feel very accomplished lol
<jmarsden> Good for you!  I was looking at packaging something new over this last weekend but decided it was "too much work for right now" when I saw how many libs I'd have to package first :)
<jgoppert> yeah its even more fun when they use cmake :/  got to 60% and crashed because their unit tests failed do to relative paths.. grrr... oh well just disabled the testing, no need to build it right now i guess
<jmarsden> :) I've not learned cmake fully yet either... learned enough autotools to get by years ago, don't see why I should have to relearn now ... but at some point I probably will have to cave and learn cmake :) :)
<jgoppert> i learned cmake first, attempted to use it and then realized i was an idiot for not just taking the plunge and learning autotools in the first place, but i guess not everyone thinks like me, cmake seems easy at first, its install mechanisms aren't that great though, and its kind of limited if you are using multiple languages
<mannyv> I was looking at the package progaurd and the version in testing can be synced but the version in unstable has been updated to source format 3.0 (quilt) which I remember reading cannot be handled correctly yet. Does this mean I should hold off on requesting a sync?
<jgoppert> i have a package trying to install is so's to /usr/lib64, should i switch it to /usr/lib ?
<jgoppert> *it's
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, do you have any opinion on bug 426614 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 426614 in oprofile "oprofile should not link libbfd dynamically" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/426614
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, no: the sync request will be on hold on archive admin part, but I still process them
<fabrice_sp> but I may be wrong :-)
<micahg> do I need the changelog entry to say LP: #XXXXXX or is LP: XXXXXX enough?
<alkisg> If package A depends on package B, and the user purges package A, will the postinst from package B be called *after* the postinst from package A? Or no order is guaranteed there?
<micahg> nevermind...I just fixed it
<jmarsden> Do appropriate admins know that https://wiki.ubuntu.com is apparently down?
<jmarsden> Is there something like http://status.ubuntu.com for outage status/info ?
<maco> not that im aware
<damagednoob> yeah i'm not getting to wiki.ubuntu.com
<maco> admins are in #canonical-sysadmins i thin
<maco> *think
<jmarsden> OK, thanks, I'll ask there.
<maco> or file an rt ticket rt.ubuntu.com user/pass ubuntu/ubuntu
<jmarsden> #canonical-sysadmins was empty, so I filed a ticket.
<maco> might be singular...
<maco> *shrug*
<dholbach> good morning
<highvoltage> good morning everyone
<siretart`> morning!
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: do you know how to proceed with bug 474004?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 474004 in libavg "Please update libavg to 0.9.0" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/474004
<ttx> dholbach: any reason why you didn't subscribe ubuntu-archive on bug 484912 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484912 in libgnumail-java "Sync libgnumail-java 1.1.2-3 (main) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484912
<dholbach> ttx: oversight? :)
<ttx> dholbach: that counts. I'll fix it :)
<dholbach> thanks :)
<DaveMorris> a quick easy question.  A fix was released for libmp3lame0 on Tue 24 Nov, and is in lucid.  I guess it is in karmic-proposed, how long till it's in karmic-updates?
<DaveMorris> bug #469676 btw
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 469676 in lame "package libmp3lame0 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/libmp3lame.so.0.0.0', which is also in package liblame0 0:3.97-0.0" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/469676
<randomaction> no it's not in karmic-proposed
<DaveMorris> therefore it won't automatically move into karmic-updates I guess
<randomaction> right
<DaveMorris> I assume the fix __should__ get released on karmic though
<randomaction> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<DaveMorris> thanks
<randomaction> there is already a patch for lucid, it should be easy to modify it for karmic-proposed
<DaveMorris> I assume I would need to poke someone with upload rights for karmic-proposed, I'm guessing that would be a MOTU?
<randomaction> usually you do this by subscribing ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug
<randomaction> and for a SRU you need an ack from motu-sru team
<randomaction> the details are in the link above
<DaveMorris> cheers, I'll do it now, before wifey kills me for mythtv not working
<shankao> how can I ask for the removal of a package from the universe repository? should I follow any fixed procedure?
<randomaction> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removing%20Packages
<shankao> thanks!
<kecsap> hi all! I have a question: Ubuntu has the OpenCV 1.0 (libcv1 etc. packages) in the Ubuntu repositories. I would like to have an update for that because the OpenCV 2.0 was released on 1th of October and the 1.0 is more than two years old and simple things are just broken there. Debian has only 1.0 as well. How to push this forward? I would like to have an update at least hardy, jaunty and karmic. I am a OpenCV developer, but I was not involved with MO
<kecsap> TU before. I have packaging/developer etc experience. I can do the work, but I do not know the best process for this situation. Please advise.
<shriekout> humm...
<shriekout> i'm a newbie...
<shriekout> kecsap, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<jpds> kecsap: Update won't be able to go into pervious releases, just lucid.
<jpds> kecsap: You should also try pushing the update into Debian.
<jpds> kecsap: Fruthermore, the update already seems to be in Debian NEW: http://packages.qa.debian.org/o/opencv.html
<kecsap> jpds: thanks, I used only the package source of the debian and I saw only 1.0.x.
<kecsap> jpds: ok, then how can I push this debian version to ubuntu? can it be only in lucid, even if it is in the debian NEW already?
<jpds> kecsap: You'll have to file a sync request and have it approved: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<kecsap> jpds: thank you!
<jpds> No problem.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<iulian> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<sebner> hey bddebian  iulian
<iulian> Hello sebner.
<bddebian> Hu hu sebner
<micahg> fabrice_sp: check out bug 490791
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 490791 in uim "package libuim6 1:1.5.6-0ubuntu1.1 failed to install/upgrade: conflicting packages - not installing libuim6 (dup-of: 460280)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/490791
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460280 in uim "package uim-qt3 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/locale/ja/LC_MESSAGES/uim.mo', which is also in package libuim-data 1:1.5.6-0ubuntu1" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460280
<fabrice_sp_> Hi dholbach. I'm a bit lost with this bug report, bug 474004, as you seems to have a bug that makes the new version unusable
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 474004 in libavg "Please update libavg to 0.9.0" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/474004
<dholbach> fabrice_sp_: did you experience it too?
<fabrice_sp_> dholbach, I will check when I come home, this afternoon
<dholbach> alright, thanks :)
<fabrice_sp_> If I can reproduce, I'll try also to backtrace the problem, to see if it's a problem in libavg
<fabrice_sp_> yw :-)
<LucidFox> "This repository is being created, it will be ready pretty soonâ¦"
 * LucidFox waits... and waits, and waits...
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-02
<ari-tczew> how often autosync is open?
<leleobhz> someone know if have some trigger to create packages from mercurial sources?
<maxb> leleobhz: What do you mean?
<leleobhz> dont have svn-buildpackage to package a app from svn?
<leleobhz> have something to hg?
<ajmitch> you mean like hg-buildpackage?
<leleobhz> yeap
<vorian> hello all, I was wondering if you all would be willing and able to give a testimonial on my wiki page for my run for the IRC council
<vorian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenStalcup
<MBCR> !staff
<vorian> MBCR: yes? how can I help you?
<MBCR> yes
<MBCR> !ops
<MBCR> jus k-line me
<vorian> MBCR: yes, how can I help you?
<MBCR> you can help me by k-lining me
<ScottK> Request granted.
<mannyv> well i guess that is a particularly efficient way to troll?
<lifeless> and yet every 3 or 4 days he does
<lifeless> I'm assuming he.
<Waterman> yo
 * mneptok arrives in horned helmet with flaming lance
<mneptok> BEGONE TROLLS, FOR I AM BECOME DEATH, THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS!
<lifeless> mneptok: solved, vorian helped out
<mneptok> oh bother.
<mneptok> this costume is *not* easy to get out of. i'm quite put out.
<vorian> sorry that you had to get all dressed up for the Ball :/
 * ScottK hands mneptok some scissors.
<mannyv> ScottK, i think his scythe will do the job =)
<mneptok> ScottK: can opener would be better. this breastplate is rather snug.
<vorian> since all the brains are awake atm, what programs best emulates Oracle Forms/Developer
<mneptok> vorian: what is the backend database target?
<ScottK> mneptok: It was this kind: http://www.cyberattic.com/stores/malon/items/858635/item858635cyberattic.html
<vorian> mneptok: some really bad raw oracle tables/reports
<vorian> at work it uses some old funky version of java
 * vorian tries to find the exact versions
<lifeless> vorian: there is a thing called 'gerald' some oracle dba is talking about at sypy this week. Might be worth a look.
<vorian> coolness
<vorian> i will have to try it
<vorian> kexi kind of works
<mneptok> vorian: i avoid anything Oracle more than ScottK avoids touching me without gloves and ammonia spray.
<vorian> but there has to be something better
<vorian> haha
<ScottK> ammonia spray/blowtorch, but sure.
<ScottK> ;-)
<mneptok> ScottK: i love you, too.
<mneptok> *le sigh*
<ScottK> Hey, you started it.
 * mneptok drags ScottK into juvenile retort territory in record time.
 * ScottK has two teenagers, so lives very close to juvenile retort territory all the time.
<mneptok> my super-power.
 * maco snorts
<StevenK> ScottK: s/very close/in/
<mneptok> ScottK: we have a guest bedroom and no landline. just sayin' ...
 * StevenK grumbles at LP
 * LucidFox blinks.
 * LucidFox reads the backlog and blinks again.
<StevenK> LucidFox: It gets like that in here
<micahg> is an SRU allowed to switch the order on depends for a dummy package?
<dholbach> good morning
<jmarsden> Is anyone willing and able to take a look at bug #223281 and tell me what else I might be able to do to get it sponsored (a) into Lucid and (b) maybe declared SRU-worthy for Karmic?  Basically software-center (and some other Python apps) won't run in a few locales... a very small patch to python2.6 fixes this.  If you use Ubuntu in Serbia or Antigua, this is a significant issue...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 223281 in python2.6 "locale._parse_localename fails when localename does not contain encoding information (was: alacarte crashed with ValueError in _parse_localename() )" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223281
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<dholbach> jmarsden: did you follow  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess ?
<ajmitch> jmarsden: it looks like someone in ubuntu-main-sponsors who's comfortable with touching python will need to sponsor it for lucid
<dholbach> doko might know a bit more about it
<ajmitch> dholbach: the bug has all the right info that I can see, but it touches python :)
<jmarsden> dholbach: Well, I hope so... I thought I subscribed ubuntu-main-sponsors but they don't seem to be subscribed now... di dthey look and unsub themselves??
<dholbach> or mvo maybe too
<maco> jmarsden: the activity log will tell you
<dholbach> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python2.6/+bug/223281/+activity
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 223281 in python2.6 "locale._parse_localename fails when localename does not contain encoding information (was: alacarte crashed with ValueError in _parse_localename() )" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ajmitch> activity log has nothing about ubuntu-main-sponsors
<dholbach> seems like they were never subscribed
 * ajmitch was just checking it
<ajmitch> while I like touching python, I think someone would probably shoot me for uploading it
 * maco hands ajmitch a bulletproof vest
<jmarsden> dholbach: OK... I'll subscribe them and see what happens :)  I realize touching python is a BIG DEAL... but I'm not sure how else this could be fixed, so...
<ajmitch> if it needs to be done, then it's worth it
<jmarsden> I've had a bunch of people say thanks from Serbia and Antigua (using my PPA package) so... looks like it needs fixing to me...
<ajmitch> it helps that the patch is from upstream
<dholbach> jmarsden: I'd try bringing it up in a few hours in #ubuntu-devel
<ajmitch> subscribe u-m-s to start with, for fixing it in lucid
<jmarsden> dholbach: Well, I'll be asleep (I'm in California) but maybe in 8 or 9 hours :)
<dholbach> I see :)
<jmarsden> ajmitch: Done :)   Thanks everyone.
<dholbach> sleep tight then :)
<jmarsden> Goodnight :)
<dholbach> jmarsden: I'm just trying to bring it up in #u-devel
<jmarsden> dholbach: OK, I'm there too now :)
<stochastic> About how long will it be before most of Debian Testing is merged into Lucid?
<ajmitch> stochastic: it depends on how fast people work
<ajmitch> is there something in particular you need from testing?
<stochastic> ajmitch, well all the lv2 libraries are going to be needed for the Ubuntu Studio team before we can build some of our planned packages.  We can work in our Debian VMs for now.
<ajmitch> you could work on the merges in your team & get them uploaded, just something to work out with whoever touched them last
<stochastic> they're new packages
<stochastic> I guess merged was the wrong verb to use
<ajmitch> ok, so they're syncs from squeeze that haven't shown up in lucid yet?
<stochastic> yeah
<ajmitch> are they in debian main, not contrib or nonfree?
 * stochastic checks
<ajmitch> if so, they should get in soon, all those new packages have to be manually accepted still, I think
<ajmitch> I'm not an archive admin so I can't tell you for sure :)
<stochastic> yeah, they're in Debian Main
<cjwatson> stochastic: I can do those for you, when my net connection stops running like a drain
<stochastic> cjwatson, thanks
<cjwatson> stochastic: exact source package names would be nice
<stochastic> cjwatson, slv2 looks to be the last source package left in the needed list
<cjwatson> stochastic: it's already been synced in by us, but it failed to build on all architectures. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/slv2
<cjwatson> Checking for lv2core >= 1.0                 :
<cjwatson>  error: the configuration failed (see '/build/buildd/slv2-0.6.6/build/config.log')
<stochastic> lv2core is now 3.0
<cjwatson> I think it's an incorrectly-versioned build-dep
<cjwatson> it was probably synced at the same time as lv2core, and happened to build before the new lv2core had built
<stochastic> exactly
<cjwatson> which is a bug in the package
<cjwatson> however, I'll retry the builds
<stochastic> thanks
<stochastic> cjwatson, thanks, seems to be working now.
<JamieBennett> I have uploaded to REVU a package that has a couple of errors in the packaging (debian/control e.t.c). My question is do I re-upload with the same version number of bump the number when working with REVU?
<slytherin> JamieBennett: same version
<JamieBennett> slytherin: Thanks.
<LucidFox> Huh. Apparently I wrote the Q-XDG library, ironically, when a version of Qt was released that renders it unnecessary.
<blackxored> hello team, I need an SRU for azureus
<blackxored> Bug #4488507 provides more info, but for our effects, renders the package inusable, I'm confirming now
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 4488507 could not be found
<blackxored> sorry, Bug #488507
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488507 in azureus "version upgrade to 4.3 required - HD network no longer working in current version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488507
<blackxored> anyone's awake ??? :)
<blackxored> which makes me wonder, is karmic supporting 3.0 (quilt) pkg format?
<kklimonda> blackxored: you should ask members of motu-sru or ubuntu-sru directly about that, they are only people capable of making the decision whenever it's good for sru
<blackxored> kklimonda, I subscribed motu-sru to the bug
<kklimonda> blackxored: you should subscribe them only when full sru report is ready.
<blackxored> kklimonda, my bad then I'm coming from debian
<blackxored> how to proceeD?
<kklimonda> the procedure is outlined on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates, in general we don't update upackages in stable releases but as this bug can be only fixed by updating package you should ask members of sru team whenever they are even going to approve it before you start doing any work
<bddebian> Heya gang
<blackxored> is karmic allowing 3.0 (quilt) source package format?
<kklimonda> blackxored: no
<kklimonda> blackxored: afair LP isn't ready for 3.0 format yet
<blackxored> kklimonda, so, eventually speaking, how do you handle this case, I have updated azureus to new usptream and decided to use 3.0 after discussion in debian-java
<blackxored> so there might be a need for updating karmic due to the change
<blackxored> I have a simple solution with git cherrypicking but that will diverge the packages
<blackxored> which is something I don't want
<blackxored> any clues?
<kklimonda> not really, the problem is that the bigger your debdiff becomes the smaller chance for ACK from SRU team gets
<Laney> having -updates and -release+1 diverge isn't a problem
<Laney> you should prepare a minimal diff to make it work
<kklimonda> blackxored: is it even possible to backport only changes needed to get HD to work without updating whole Vuze to newer version?
<blackxored> is to not work
<blackxored> looking at the diff there are a lot of core changes
<blackxored> I don't think backport is an option
<blackxored> but you might have another point of view
<Laney> what's thie simple solution?
<blackxored> upgrade to 4.3.0.0-1 without the source 3.0 changes IMHO
<kklimonda> Maybe we should just upload new Vuze to Lucid and prepare backport of package for Karmic instead of preparing SRU?
<Laney> doesn't sound like that involves git cherrypicking
<kklimonda> (by we I mean blackxored  ;) )
<blackxored> hehehehe
<blackxored> kklimonda, I don't think all users have backports enabled and according to the bug, it renders the program inusable
<kklimonda> blackxored: I haven't used Azureus/Vuze for years but wasn't it mainly a BitTorrent client?
<blackxored> it is a bittorrent client
<blackxored> but lucid is supporting 3.0 format, right?
<Laney> soon
<kklimonda> then missing HD network doesn't render it unusable for everyone - just for people who use it exclusively to access it?
<blackxored> kklimonda, i have to get more feedback I'm just getting familiar in how to proceed
<blackxored> but it seemed that you can't use the program
<blackxored> <Laney> doesn't sound like that involves git cherrypicking <= why not, is the simplest one to get rid of the 3.0 commit
<Laney> simplest for you, not simplest for the sru
<blackxored> Laney, am I wrong
<blackxored> Laney, I *will* do the sru
<Laney> cherrypicking usually means choosing the minimal commits to fix what you want to
<blackxored> or excluding some commits from a merge
<blackxored> but I'm open to suggestions that improve my processes hehehhehe
<qnix> hi
<qnix> Where tcl binding supposed to be installed ?
<Rhonda> Hi. I would like to have a link into how backports work and what would be needed to have a reprepro backport in hardy.
 * Rhonda . o O ( but first have 4.0.2 synced from debian into lucid as basis for the backport ;) )
<Laney> !backport
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
 * Rhonda thanks Laney :)
<Laney> no worries
<Laney> was a guess tbh
<Rhonda> Good guesses are often the best help. :)
<ScottK> Rhonda: Once you have the appropriate backports bug filed and testing done, feel free to ping me and I can approve it.
<Rhonda> That would be extremely helpful and cool, thanks for the offer. :)
<blackxored> Laney, you're the only one still around
<blackxored> Laney, about lucid
<blackxored> I need you to take a look
<blackxored> at the ubuntu version
<blackxored> can someone take a look?
<Rhonda> ScottK: About having reprepro 4.0.2 in lucid, is anything special needed for that? Whom to prod, or just sit'n'wait?
 * ScottK looks
<blackxored> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-java/azureus.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu
<blackxored> can someone take a look? ^^^^^
<blackxored> MOTUs are sleeping or what?
<ScottK> Rhonda: Currently we have 3.12.1-1ubuntu1 in Lucid.  Since there is an Ubuntu change, someone will either have to merge the change into the new Debian version (if appropriate) of file a sync request to sync over the Ubuntu diff (if that's appropriate)
<Rhonda> Ah, I see.
<blackxored> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-java/azureus.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu
<blackxored> <blackxored> can someone take a look? ^^^^^
<blackxored> going lunch
<blackxored> hope you got some time when I get back
<Rhonda> I really should dig into bazaar it seems. :)
<ScottK> Rhonda: That or use the grab-merge script from ubuntu-dev-tools to grab all the packages (including a draft merged package) from merges.ubuntu.com
<Rhonda> ScottK: I'm checking out http://patches.ubuntu.com/r/reprepro/reprepro_3.12.1-1ubuntu1.patch currently. ;)
<ScottK> OK, that will give you the content of the diff.
<Rhonda> I think it might be included in 4.0.2 already, checking ...
<Laibsch> I successfully recompiled the latest bitbake package from Debian unstable in my hardy PPA: https://launchpad.net/~r0lf/+archive/hardy/+packages  The resulting deb has a run-time dependency on python2.3-pysqlite2 which is unavailable and thus makes the package uninstallable.  What is happening there?
<Rhonda> ScottK: eeks, autotools diff  %-)
 * ScottK didn't look at what it was, just that there was a diff.
<Rhonda> ScottK: Seems like the ubuntu diff can get dropped.
<hyperair> what's the deb line for a small custom repository with the Packages.gz file in the same path as the packages?
 * hyperair just can't seem to make apt look in the right place
<ScottK> Rhonda: Then the next step would be to file a sync request.  The best way to do this is with the requestsync script (also in ubuntu-dev-tools).
<hyperair> aha deb http://localhost/apt ./
<Rhonda> ScottK: Hmm, that's stuck in debian unstable only for the moment.  %-)
 * Rhonda hides.
<ScottK> Rhonda: You can request syncing from Unstable, it's just not the default this cycle.
<qnix> emm... I call "autoconf" in my debian/rules file.....but the call seems to just freeze. any idea?
<ScottK> Just give some reason why it's a good idea (doesn't need to be much of one).
<ScottK> Feel free to ping me to review the bug after you file it.
<Laney> "this is a developer tool" works for me
<Rhonda> ScottK: I'll try to install the package and learn the tools. :)
<Laney> requestsync -d unstable [--lp] reprepro lucid
<ScottK> Rhonda: OK.  ubuntu-dev-tools is essentially devscripts for Ubuntu specific stuff.
<Rhonda> Off to some christmas event. See you. :)  *hugsLucidFox*
<oojah> When should data that a program creates in /var/lib be removed? On remove or purge?
<ScottK> oojah: Purge
<oojah> ScottK: Great, that's what I presumed, thanks.
<blackxored> blackxored> <blackxored> can someone take a look? ^^^^^
<blackxored> <blackxored> going lunch
<blackxored> <blackxored> hope you got some time when I get back
<blackxored> to this:http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-java/azureus.git;a=commit;h=2b87d9d28ce17945dc51ade8c7491b987c5759ac
<Laney> please stop repeating that
<blackxored> Laney, my bad
<Laney> the best way to get someone to review your sru diff is to file a bug with it attached
<Laney> and subscribe motu-sru
<Laney> !sru
<blackxored> but now 4.3.0.0 in unstable
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<blackxored> is not sru
<blackxored> is just the uploaded version for karmic
<Laney> what then?
<blackxored> s/karmic/lucid, my bad
<Laney> i don't know what you want to do
<Laney> but my advice will be the same, submit a diff for review
<iulian> And subscribe the sponsors.
<blackxored> All right, I will wait for the reported to give me more feedback about this in order to justify or not a sru
<blackxored> s/reported/reporter
<Laney> well, submit for review implies that
<Laney> but thanks
<blackxored> Laney, I just wanted to someone to take a look to see if I'm doing it right for ubuntu
<akheron> Any motus around to look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jansson ? It already has one advocation!
<geser> akheron: just a quick look: why depending on libc6-dev? it's part of build-essential so you don't need to depend on it
<akheron> geser: do I have to depend on any libc-dev at all?
<akheron> I recall having a lintian error/warning when depending only to libc-dev
<geser> no, not at all
<akheron> ok
<randomaction> Rhonda: there's a recently filed bug 491482
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491482 in reprepro "Sync reprepro 4.0.2-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491482
<geser> libc6-dev | libc-dev is part of build-essential, so you don't need to have a dependency on it
<akheron> geser: ahh, so it seems
<akheron> I'll remove the dependency
<akheron> geser: hmm, should I depend on build-essential then?
<geser> no
<geser> it's assumed that someone who wants to compile something has build-essential installed
<akheron> as this is not Build-Depends but the Depends of the -dev package
<akheron> ah, ok
<geser> akheron: see http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-pkg-relations, second paragraph in 4.2
<akheron> geser: it does talk about build-depends doesn't it?
<geser> yes, but the same logic applies here to. your -dev package will probbably be used as a build-dependency for an other package
<akheron> that's true
<geser> and when you check the other -dev package in the archive, none has a dependency on build-essential or parts of it (unless versioned ones)
<akheron> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/devel/apcalc-dev the first one I clicked on has :)
<akheron> another example: http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/zlib1g-dev
<akheron> could it be the case that most -dev packages don't have it because they depend on other -dev packages so there's an indirect dependency?
<ScottK> If a package actively needs a build-depend it should not depend on an indirect dependency working, it should build-depend directly.
<ScottK> The depends of the other package may change.
<akheron> ScottK: we are talking abot depends, not build-depends
<ScottK> akheron: Same principle applies
<akheron> then what does "actively needs" mean?
<ScottK> Directly uses functions from
<akheron> programs that use the library in my -dev package cannot be compiled without libc6-dev | libc-dev because it has includes from libc6-dev | libc-dev
<akheron> if the only usage of the -dev package was to be used as a build-depend then I'd agree with geser but there may be other needs
<akheron> on the other hand, I don't depends on a C compiler, which is also needed
<akheron> I'm confused now
<akheron> Debian Library Packaging Guide, chapter 6, section 2 (-DEV package dependencies): The -DEV package would usually declare Depends: relationship on all -DEV packages for libraries that the library package directly depends upon, with the specific SONAME version that the library package is linked against. This includes libc-dev.
<akheron> IIRC, this is where I got the idea of depending on libc-dev
<Laney> It is not necessary to explicitly specify build-time relationships on a minimal set of packages that are always needed to compile, link and put in a Debian package a standard "Hello World!" program written in C or C++. The required packages are called build-essential, and an informational list can be found in /usr/share/doc/build-essential/list (which is contained in the build-essential package).
<akheron> Laney: yes, but it talks about build-depends, not the depends of -dev packages
<Laney> which are made to be used as build depends
<Laibsch> When I rebuild http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/b/bitbake/bitbake_1.8.18-1.dsc for hardy (ppa and pbuilder) I get an unresolvable dependency on python2.3-pysqlite2.  Can somebody please confirm and help me understand where that is coming from?  There is nothing under debian/ that would obviously introduce this.
<akheron> Laney: I believe there are other uses, too
<Laney> ok
<akheron> for any -dev package
<akheron> hm, this leads to another question
<akheron> is the sole purpose of the -dev packages to allow building other .deb packages, or is it possible that someone installs a -dev package to use the library for another purposes
<akheron> or should the user download, compile and install the library by hand without using the -dev package
<geser> akheron: if a user builds a package depending or you package, they can use your -dev package and it's assumed that they have build-essential (or it's dependencies) installed
<akheron> geser: yes, that's obvious
<akheron> but is it a possible scenario that someone just installs libjansson-dev to be able to compile his own programs that use it, without any debian packaging involved
<akheron> in this case, they would also explicitly need to install libc-dev to be able to use it if there's no depends
<akheron> on the other hand, they would need gcc anyway
<akheron> which makes "it's assumed that someone who wants to compile something has build-essential installed" a valid point
<akheron> Laibsch: for me it builds fine
<Laibsch> akheron: thanks for testing
<Laibsch> It builds fine for me as well
<Laibsch> Please check the deb with "dpkg --info"
<Laibsch> the run-time dependencies are awkward
<akheron> ah, yes
<akheron> there's python2.3-pysqlite2
<akheron> Laibsch: debian/pyversions is 2.3-
<Laibsch> yes, that's the only occurence of 2.3 that I found
<Laibsch> But I do not understand it's relevance
<Laibsch> Is that responsible for the dependency?
<Laibsch> Why does it not happen in debian proper?
<geser> bitbake has also a Python-Depends: python-pysqlite2 line which might cause this
<geser> I'd have to look at cdbs what it does with this field
<Laibsch> It would be interesting to see how that translates into the fixed version of 2.3
<Laibsch> I'm off
<Laibsch> bye
<micahg> jdstrand: will you take an SRU on karmic for apparmor for chromium browser?
<jdong> what is it with this world and flash videos?
<jdong> I'd love to know what's new with Qt 4.6 and not be linked to a youtube playlist.
<micahg> jdong: HTML5 hasn't caught on yet
<jdong> I don't care what format it is
<jdong> I want frickin text!
<jdong> it won't be far from today that git-diff will be in the form of a matrix-like meme filled GLV.
<jdong> FLV*
<jdong> ah, ok, a couple levels deeper into the announcement, a link to a page from the manual.
<jdong> *grumbles*
<jdstrand> micahg: re chromium> I wouldn't be opposed to it. it seems a bit of a corner case, but it is an easy enough change
<micahg> jdstrand: ok, can I prepare it later then?
<jdstrand> micahg: sure, I don't mind
<micahg> ok
<jdstrand> micahg: just post a debdiff in the bug
<jdstrand> and I can commit and process it
<micahg> jdstrand: ok, thanks
<jdstrand> micahg: then perhaps you could do the SRU procedure?
<micahg> jdstrand: I was planning on it :)
<jdstrand> ok cool
<micahg> jdstrand: I figured it qualified as a security update since it's apparmor, but, it wouldn't go into -security, right?
<jdstrand> micahg: security updates are only for security vulnerabilities-- ie, things that could cause data loss, code execution, etc
<jdstrand> micahg: this is a normal bug. it should go through -proposed
<jdstrand> micahg: just like any other SRU
<micahg> jdstrand: ok, but you still need to review it, or do I just subscribe ubuntu-sru?
<jdstrand> micahg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<jdstrand> micahg: I'd like to review it, so I can commit it to our bzr tree
<micahg> yes, I was just wondering if security needs to review first since it's apparmor
<jdstrand> micahg: can you upload to the archive?
<micahg> jdstrand: no, I'm not a MOTU yet :)
<micahg> jdstrand: would you prefer me to propose a merge?
<jdstrand> micahg: it is always a good idea to get someone from the security team to review apparmor changes
<jdstrand> micahg: nah, debdiff is fine
<micahg> jdstrand: ok
<jdstrand> micahg: post it and I'll commit and sponsor the upload
<micahg> jdstrand: I'm assuming you'll do that after the sru team acks it, right?
<jdstrand> micahg: step 4: "Upload the fixed package to release-proposed..."
<jdstrand> micahg: I'll upload to -proposed. ubuntu-sru will decide to accept it or not
<micahg> jdstrand: ah, ok, I'm still learning :)
<jdstrand> but they should if I review it and ack it
<jdstrand> micahg: this is good motu practice. just follow read all of the StableReleaseUpdates page, and pay particular attention to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
<jdstrand> s/follow//
<micahg> I thought I did read it, I guess I wasn't clear on who did what
<fabrice_sp> Does someone know when this package will be synced: http://packages.debian.org/source/squeeze/libsfml ? It a 1.0 format, and I don't see anything that prevent it from been synced from Debian
<fabrice_sp> !libsfml | lucid
<fabrice_sp> !info libsfml | lucid
<ubottu> lucid: Package libsfml does not exist in karmic
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Did you look in the New queue.
<fabrice_sp> right. I'll check
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, no, I don't see him in the new queue (actually, in none...)
<fabrice_sp> s/him/it/
<fabrice_sp> porthose, bug # 491069
<fabrice_sp> bug #491069. It FTBFS
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491069 in libcsfml "Sync libcsfml 1.5-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491069
<porthose> fabrice_sp, I'll have a look in a minute, having to deal with some real world stuff that's being a PITA :)
<fabrice_sp> np: it'a missing dependency
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> see my previous question on libsfml
<shankao> can I create a tarball for a new package from a subversion revision? how should I name it?
<FishEatFish> hello, i have probleme with dh_make, it can't create debian/ in my sources folder !! can anybody help me please
<maxb> If you could be a bit more specific about exactly what's not working....
<maxb> For example, you could pastebin the command you ran and the error messages
<maxb> !paste
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from  command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic
<FishEatFish> ok i'll do it wait a second please
<FishEatFish> http://paste.ubuntu.com/333430/
<shankao> FishEatFish, the error message from dh_make is pretty clear...
<shankao> Could not find classroom-fr_0.1.orig.tar.gz
<shankao> Either specify an alternate file to use with -f,
<shankao> or add --createorig to create one.
<FishEatFish> shankao : i don't really understand what it mean why dh_make need the tar.gz ?
<maxb> FishEatFish: Are you following http://u-classroom.net/wiki/cours/packaging ?
<FishEatFish> yes
<shankao> the original source code will be included as that tarball in your source packages
<maxb> My French skills are rather mediocre, but I believe you want to go back and read this again: "Une fois les sources rÃ©cupÃ©rÃ©es, la premiÃ¨re chose Ã  faire est de renommer le tarball, ....."
<FishEatFish> yes it's already done
<FishEatFish> with mv
<maxb> "Could not find classroom-fr_0.1.orig.tar.gz" <---- dh_make disagrees with you
<FishEatFish> when i tape ls in classrom the result is
<FishEatFish> classroom-fr-0.1  classroom_fr_0.1.orig.tar.gz
<FishEatFish> so why dh_make could not find the tarball
<wgrant> FishEatFish: - vs _
<shankao> the first should be a dash in the tarball
<FishEatFish> there is a reason ?
<shankao> dash separates version number
<FishEatFish> so i must just rename it and it should work ?
<shankao> try it ;)
<shankao> it's faster than asking
<FishEatFish> it works
<FishEatFish> but i don't understand why the dh_make can't read  classroom_fr_0.1.orig.tar.gz
<qnix> FishEatFish: _ must separates the package-name and version, they told you.
<qnix> change its name for classroom-fr_0.1.orig.tar.gz
<FishEatFish> sorry, i'm a beginner that's why
<FishEatFish> thank you shankao, wgrant,qnix, maxb
<RainCT> What are people using for daily package builds nowadays?
 * RainCT looks at fta
<fta> RainCT, is that a question for me? i thought you knew what i use..
<RainCT> fta: uhm I think last time we talked about it you ran some script manually?
<fta> RainCT, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+junk/ppa-scripts/ for the bot, and https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+junk/ppa-confs/ for the conf of the various dailies i manage
<fta> not manually, but in a cron
<RainCT> ok, checking those branches, thanks
<FishEatFish> any advise to give me ? a wiki to begin with for exemple
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-03
<nigel_nb> maco: ping
<dtchen> nigel_nb: try back in an hourish (she's napping)
<nigel_nb> dtchen: thank you :)
<nigel_nb> good to know she's sleeping (for a change)
<darkpixel> I have a simply python app that I am trying to package for both Hardy and Karmic.  According to the Debian guide the changelog supports something like 'mypackage (1.0) hardy karmic; urgency=log', but when I upload the source package to my PPA, it complains that I can only use one distribution at a time.  Is there an easy to use the same source for multiple releases?  Do I just need to create two identical copies of my ...
<darkpixel> ... source just changing the changelog for each release?
<ScottK> darkpixel: PPA specific questions are probably best asked in #launchpad.
<darkpixel> ScottK: Will do.  Thanks.  I wasn't sure if this was me misunderstanding packaging or something specific to launchpad.
<CarlFK> asac:  i see you do libgtk...   what does it take to get this included?  http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gtk+/diff/gdk/gdkwindow.c?h=gtk-2-18
<CarlFK> I am building 2.18.3-1ubuntu2 now to make sure it builds clean, then again with that patch
<slytherin> CarlFK: why is this change needed?
<CarlFK> an app I use (dvswich) malfunctions
<CarlFK> here is the bug report that lead to that fix:  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=601473
<ubottu> Gnome bug 601473 in input-methods "GDK_BUTTON?_MOTION_MASK appears to be broken" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<slytherin> CarlFK: is there a bug in launchpad files against the app you are using?
<CarlFK> no
<CarlFK> should I ?
<slytherin> yes
<CarlFK> will do
<CarlFK> slytherin:  Ill ref the debian and gnome reports - should I copy the text from the original debian bug report?
<slytherin> CarlFK: Was that filed by you?
<CarlFK> no - by ben, the lead dvswitch dev
<CarlFK> but I am a dev, the one that found it, and care most about getting it fixed
<slytherin> CarlFK: You can copy the description. Just mention that you copied form the debian bug (with url).
<CarlFK> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dvswitch/+bug/491732
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 491732 in dvswitch "GDK_BUTTON_MOTION_MASK appears to be broken" [Undecided,New]
<slytherin> CarlFK: I have changed the source package to gtk+. And since gtk+ is in main you may want to discuss the bug in #ubuntu-devel
<CarlFK> oh right... dvswitch distracted me
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> for an SRU using a bzr branch, so I still need to attach a debdiff?
<micahg> jdstrand: bug 488559 didn't appear to make it into lucid yet, that version listed in teh bug didn't have it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488559 in apparmor "Chromium browser abstraction doesn't have correct path" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488559
<akheron> geser: after discussing in #debian-mentors, too, I dropped the depends to libc6-dev | libc-dev: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jansson
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<^arky^> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey ^arky^
<dholbach> how are you guys doing?
<^arky^> great!
<^arky^> any help on bug 491294 how to request a sync from debian ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491294 in josm "Sync with upstream version" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491294
 * iulian is not doing so good.
<iulian> Headache is killing me.
 * slytherin hates nick names with special characters
<ciphergoth> hello masters of the Universe!  I maintain a package called mercurial-server that has very recently become part of Debian unstable.  I'd like to get this package into Lucid Lynx next.  What should I do?
<geser> does it have any chance to move to testing?
<ciphergoth> I just fixed the two low-priority bugs against it and pushed a 1.0
<ciphergoth> I imagine it will end up in testing in the usual ten days
<Laney> then it will get into Lucid automatically
<ciphergoth> but I thought Ubuntu pulled from unstable?
<ciphergoth> Laney: I haven't missed the cutoff date?
<Laney> this release is syncing from squeeze by default
<Laney> nope
<ciphergoth> what is the cutoff date?
<geser> not for lucid: for lucid we sync with testing
<geser> once your package is in testing it should get auto-synced (don't know how often it get currently done)
<geser> if it's not synced till DIF we can request a sync
<geser> DIF= Debian Import Freeze
<ciphergoth> and DIF is on December 31st?
<Laney> !lucid
<ubottu> Lucid Lynx is the codename for Ubuntu 10.04, due April 2010 - Lucid is NOT released and is NOT stable - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
<Laney> blast
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
<ciphergoth> Laney:  that is the web page I have been looking for all over - thanks! I used the wrong search terms.
<ciphergoth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSDebianImportFreeze is the key date it seems, and that's Feb 11th.
<ciphergoth> that might even be time enough for me to Debianize my *other* package and get that one in too...
<Laney> it's quite late this cycle
<Laney> plenty of time
<ciphergoth> yeah, I'd thought it would be much earlier.  Right, will do some hacking over the Xmas break :-)
<ciphergoth> btw the one that's in Debian is http://www.lshift.net/mercurial-server.html and the other one is http://dev.lshift.net/paul/rurple/
<ana_> yo guys! :)
<ana_> i need help
<ana_> my friends computer with UBUNTU 9.10 is freezing all the time
<ana_> can somebody help me?
<ana_> to solve this problem?
<ciphergoth> ana_: you want the #ubuntu channel
<ciphergoth> also, when you get there read the links in the "topic" for some hints on how best to get useful help
<ana_> #ubuntu
<ana_> hm:)
<ana_> ok so i should go to ubuntu channel and than ask there
<ana_> thank you ciphergoth
<ciphergoth> You're welcome.  Remember to read the links in the topic.
<Rune> Could someone please triage https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maxima/+bug/303587 its importance really is quite critical
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 303587 in maxima "Error in CONDITIONS::CLCS-UNIVERSAL-ERROR-HANDLER [or a callee]: Caught fatal error [memory may be damaged] " [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> Rune: we have the fixed version already
<Laney> if #1 is to be believed
<Rune> actually it reemerged
<Rune> in karmic
<Rune> see bottom comments
<Laney> you should forward it upstream
<Rune> some comments suggest it's a packaging problem
<Laney> if it fails with ASLR, that sounds like an upstream bug
<Rune> Laney, not a gcc problem as one of the comment suggest?
<Laney> doubt it
<Laney> but I don't know the problem obviously
<Rune> It is hard for me to test because "apt-get source maxima; apt-get build-dep maxima; cd maxima-5.17.1; debian/rules;" does not work.
<soren> It's not supposed to.
<soren> Try "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b" instead of debian/rules
<Rune> ahh
<Rune> thanks
<soren> Rune: ^
<Rune> I failed building maxima with dpkg-buildpackage. Then I tried rebuilding gcl with dpkg-buildpackage as gcl might be the sinner here. However, gcl did feel like compiling either because of ASLR.
<stochastic> is there any way to "apt-get source" a Lucid package from within a Karmic install?
<james_w> stochastic: you can add deb-src lines for lucid
<james_w> stochastic: or there is pull-lp-source in ubuntu-dev-tools
<Daviey> Do we have a DEP-3 comptiable equivilant to Bug-Debian: ?
<Daviey> Or do we use that anyway to point to LP?
<Daviey> (Ubuntu centric bug)
<micahg> for an SRU on a package using a bzr branch, do I still need to attach a debdiff?
<geser> probably as it's easier for the SRU people to review the changes you want to upload
<micahg> geser: ok, thanks
<WasserDragoon> hi, how to make a source package with 2 binaries?
<WasserDragoon> using debuild
<micahg> anyone available to push an SRU to proposeD?
<awe_> nxvl, cody-somerville, could you one of you guys explain to me when how often merges.ubuntu.com refreshes?
<ScottK> In theory every 6 hours.
<ScottK> In practice, lately, not so much.
<nxvl> awe_: ^^
<nxvl> awe_: i always re-check with pts and lp to see if the versions are accurate
<awe_> ScottK, thanks...
<awe_> ScottK, the debian bzr branches for the package are out-of-date too ( james_w is looking at why ), so guess I'll have to do it the hard way.  ;)
<james_w> awe_: if LP wasn't down I could force a check of the packages you want :-)
<awe_> ;D
<awe_> james_w, np, I managed to download my first source package directly from Debian, so progress is being made!
<nxvl> awe_: what package are you working on?
<micahg> anyone want to push an SRU into proposed?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-04
<fabrice_sp> micahg, did you get the sru ack, and did you subscribed u-u-s for your SRU?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: I thought it was already subscribed...let me check
<jdong> ack jdong has been pummeled by schoolwork this past week....
<jdong> if anyone has urgent SRU requests please feel free to kick me repeatedly in IRC until I respond.
<micahg> fabrice_sp: yes, u-u-s is subscribed
<fabrice_sp> micahg, bug number?
<micahg> bug 477513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 477513 in uim "FireFox crashes routinely karmic i386" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/477513
<fabrice_sp> hey jdong is back :-)
<jdong> aaaah!
<jdong> "back" but shhhhh don't tell anyone
<micahg> jdong: I still don't have a test case though
<fabrice_sp> lol
<micahg> all I know is that it crashes after some time of use for some people
<jdong> heh I'd really love to have a testcase, but for some kinds of bugs that's really all you can get.
<micahg> jdong: my other sru has a test cae
<jdong> considering the patch looks correct and reasonable to me, I've got no objections
<fabrice_sp> micahg, do you plan to work on the merge/sync of 1.5.7 from Debian?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: I can if you want
<fabrice_sp> it would be nice, but it's as you want
<fabrice_sp> as you already knows the pacakge, it would easier for than for another
<fabrice_sp> but I can take care of it, anyway :-D
<micahg> fabrice_sp: I only added a patch from upstream :)
<fabrice_sp> Ohh: I saw you was subscribed to the bug report. I thought you had a special interest in it :-)
<fabrice_sp> np :-D
<micahg> fabrice_sp: only because it causes firefox problems :)
<fabrice_sp> limited interest, then :-D
<micahg> yes
<wrapster> install -m 755 -t debian/pkgname/usr/bin debian/somefile ; this will install somefile in the target dir specified by the -t option right?
<jmarsden> What is it about the debuild environment that causes warnings about not checking return values of read() and write() and turns them into errors?  I have a package (written in C++) I can build only with a large patchset to check all these calls... but a manual build from the unpacked upstream tarball does not have this issue.
<wrapster> guys why is this install format not working? http://pastie.org/726993
<fabrice_sp> jmarsden, it's about the compilation flags that has been hardened in Ubuntu
<jmarsden> fabrice_sp: OK... is there a Wiki page explaining this... esp how to get a non-Ubuntu machine to generate the same set of warnings?
<fabrice_sp> this warning should be fixed
<fabrice_sp> hmmm, you could grab the log and see the options
<jmarsden> fabrice_sp: I know, but upstream doesn't want to accept my patchset, and right now they do not even see the warnings ...
<fabrice_sp> with gcc 4.4?
<jmarsden> Yes.  With -Wall -Werror, they say they see no warnings...
<fabrice_sp> did you tried in Debian?
<fabrice_sp> Debian should have the same set of errors/warning
<fabrice_sp> wrapster, no idea. sorry
<jmarsden> No, I could try.  But I want to be able to get the same warnings in Fedora...
<fabrice_sp> do you have the log sowehere?
<fabrice_sp> so that I can have a look at it?
<jmarsden> Yes...  http://crosswire.org/~jmarsden/sword/sword-r2480-buildlog.txt
<fabrice_sp> did you run also the configure command with the same variables? The line is quite long
<fabrice_sp> you ahve also to be sure that the gcc version is exactly the same (not only 4.4, but also sub-version) and glibc
<jmarsden> Well, in Fedora 12 the gcc version is 4.4.2 which is newer than Ubuntu's ...
<wrapster> fabrice_sp: well i found a work around.. it was just a python script that i had to place in /urs/bin/ so i manually copied it to debian/pkgname/usr/bin and chmod 755 it.. good enough... ?
<jmarsden> wrapster: If you are just installing one file why did you use -t  ??
<fabrice_sp> wrapster, you really want to install it in debian/pkgname, and not in $DESTDIR or similar?
<fabrice_sp> jmarsden, the configures flags are also important
<jmarsden> fabrice_sp: OK, I'll check them all out... but surely somewhere Ubuntu documents its hardening stuff??
<fabrice_sp> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags ?
<fabrice_sp> the file mgt errors seems linked to -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 with -O2
<jmarsden> fabrice_sp: Yes... looks like it is the  -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2
<jmarsden> Now I need to see if Fedora has that option too :)  Time to create a Fedora12 VM...
<fabrice_sp> :-D
<fabrice_sp> a chroot won't work in that case?
 * fabrice_sp doesn't have any idea on that, and it could be a dumb suggestion
<jmarsden> I don't know.  I have 10Mbps down Internet connection, so it won't take that long to grab an ISO and create a VirtualBox VM.  I don't know how to install Fedora into a chroot.
<fabrice_sp> ok :-)
<xnox> And the sword upstream test everything in VM's
<xnox> =)
<fabrice_sp> in this case, it's just for compiling hte app
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<jmarsden> xnox: Hmm, then they could test in a Debian VM too... but I think I need to do the work and "prove" the issue is real, at this point.
<xnox> Well they fire up VM's and tell you it doesn't work after this change in f7 and never try to help you debug. Simply revert commits or not apply patches.....
<xnox> or any other f*
<xnox> Is that the same 6months+ patch you are trying to get accepted?
<jmarsden> xnox: Yes, from back in May.  1200 line diff, 100+ individual patches...
<xnox> Oh well.... Are they gonna do a release any time soon?
<jmarsden> Yes, that's what got this started again... Troy asked for all my patches and applied some of them... 1.6.1 coming soon, it seems.
<xnox> Hmm interesting =)
<kees> jmarsden: -Werror turns warnings into errors.  that's not a default.
<jmarsden> kees: No, but it is part of the upstream autotools stuff; I could patch that back out, I suppose.  But I already have the patch for all the warnings... I just would prefer upstream to apply it rather than carry it as a packaging patch.
 * xnox is happy finished building 1st package flavor - 2 to go 
<kees> jmarsden: ok, cool.  I only skimmed the scrollback when I saw mention of the hardening flags.  was anything missing from the CompilerDefaults wiki page?  I've tried to make that as useful as possible.
<jmarsden> CompilerFlags you mean?  Looks fine to me, I just didn't know it existed until fabrice_sp pointed me to it earlier.
<jmarsden> Is it mentioned in the Packaging Guide?  if not, should it be?
<^arky^> hi, any help with bug 491327 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491327 in at-spi "No module named pyatspi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491327
<micahg> ^arky^: idk python
<^arky^> thanks micahg, I'll try to look up for python guys
<micahg> ^arky^: oh, sorry, I thought this was the bugs channel...
<micahg> :)
<micahg> someone in here might have an idea
<^arky^> :)
 * ^arky^ heads back ubuntu-bugs
<dholbach> good morning
<^arky^> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ^arky^
<^arky^> dholbach: if you have time please have look at bug 491327
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491327 in at-spi "No module named pyatspi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491327
<dholbach> ^arky^: I doubt I will have the time for it right now in this moment, if it's urgent try asking in #ubuntu-desktop
<^arky^> yes, will do that thanks dholbach
<dholbach> err
<dholbach> what is there to sponsor?
<dholbach> is there any patch/diff/branch/something?
<micahg> dholbach: please unsubscribe sponsors
<dholbach> will do
<Rune> How do I see whether any changes have been made to a package compared to the debian version? (other than downloading the debian version and running diff)
<micahg> Rune: if there's an ubuntu in the version, we have modifications
<Rune> Do I have to diff the debian version to see what kind of modifications?
<tsimpson> Rune: 'aptitude changelog <package>' will download the changelog and display it for you (from http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/)
<shankhs> what is a template for packaging? Please.
<shankhs> i know dh-make is used to create template
<shankhs> i am a noob
<soren> Do you know what a template is?
<shankhs> soren: c++ template yes, other than this no
<soren> As per wikipedia, a template is a standardized file type used by computer software as a pre-formatted example on which to base other files, especially documents.
<soren> dh-make creates a template for packaging. It creates a bunch of files that you can edit until it does what you expect it to.
<shankhs> a pre-formatted example ?
<shankhs> How will i get this format?
<soren> You already know this.
<soren> 13:12:30 < shankhs> i know dh-make is used to create template
<shankhs> ya i know about dh-make
<soren> So what is your question? I don't quite understand.
<shankhs> i can go on wihout knowing template . My question is what template is used by ubuntu packages and how this templates are decided?
<directhex> of the approximately 18,000 source packages in the archive, a vast variety of templates & helpers are used
<soren> I'm sorry, I don't think I can help you. I don't understand your question. Perhaps someone else can.
<directhex> based entirely on the whims of the packager
<shankhs> so ubuntu doesn't force the templates?
<directhex> no, of course not
<soren> Depends on what you mean by templates.
<shankhs> soren: i am not getting you , for me template is a pre-formatted file(as u mentioned before)
<shankhs> if it doesnt then how come different packages interoperate?
<soren> 10 seconds ago you didn't know what a template was, so I'm not convinced you're using the word correctly here.
<shankhs> soren: t think so
<soren> Ubuntu forces a specific directory structure of the filesystem (known as the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard, FHS).
<soren> Is that what you mean?
<soren> Do we force one specific way to generate packages? No.
<shankhs> soren: i need to read from somewhere can you please give me some resources? I am getting confused
<soren> Do we force a specific format of binary packages? Sure, otherwise dpkg would have to be magic.
<shankhs> soren: i guess so
<soren> shankhs: What are you trying to do?
<shankhs> soren: i am learning packaging in ubuntu
<slytherin> shankhs: Did you read the 'Contributing' link available in channel topic?
<soren> Then you should ask about that instead.
<shankhs> slytherin: i am reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
<shankhs> soren: ya any advice?Please
<soren> shankhs: I advice you to read that link and ask questions when there's something you don't understand.
<slytherin> shankhs: That is a good starting point. If you have any specific questions then ask them.
<soren> Hm... The intro on that page claims that "[f]irst, we will use no build helper. This approach is usually the most difficult and is not often used in practice but gives the most straightforward look at the packaging process."
<soren> I don't see that anywhere in the body, though.
<shankhs> soren: very frankly i am not understanding dh-make . The only thing thats neccessary is : Type of package: single binary, multiple binary, library, kernel module or cdbs? [s/m/l/k/b] s
<shankhs> soren: me too found that one
<shankhs> what the package has to do with the personal info of dev?
<soren> That will create the template packaging. Keep reading, it will all be explained. You are supposed to edit the files it creates.
<soren> shankhs: "personal info"?
<shankhs> soren: like email id,name
<soren> I don't understand your question at all.
<shankhs> soren: i will first read the complete doc...thanx anyways
<shankhs> Everybody thankyou very much
<shankhs> soren: thanyou
<soren> shankhs: sure
<slytherin> shankhs: how are others supposed to know who packaged the software if you don't provide name/email
<shankhs> slytherin: i am getting it , it seems logical thanx
<SWAT> what's a good/simple packaging example for python software using the setup.py install method? (which should be the preferred one, right?)
<qnix> I would say that mercurial could be a good example
<slytherin> Does anyone know any particular reason why autosyncs are happening with less-than-usual frequency?
<LucidFox> \o/ http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/clang
<shriekout> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/happytimer
<shriekout> Please advise.
<LucidFox> shriekout> commented
<shriekout> LucidFox, thanks :)
<shriekout> LucidFox, thank you for your suggestions.
<LucidFox> Now speaking about my packages... who will have the bravery to review the great and mighty clang, mortals? [insert thunder]
<LucidFox> Or perhaps one would prefer to review 2mandvd, juffed, or the simplest of all, fuse-zip?
<highvoltage> dholbach: http://www.miafrica.co.za/product1.html
<slytherin> LucidFox: What is fuse-zip?
<LucidFox> A console utility to mount zip archives as read-write directories.
<slytherin> Ok
<maco> is that how the archive manager works?
<LucidFox> In Nautilus?
<slytherin> maco: Manager or mounter?
<maco> the gnome equivalent of ark
<maco> whatever it's called
<LucidFox> file-roller
<LucidFox> The archive mounter mounts them read-only.
<maco> yes that
<nigel_nb> maco: hey  :)
<maco> nigel_nb: im at work right now
<nigel_nb> unfortunately, I'm leavin for work
<nigel_nb> oh, k
<jdong> no I don't think ark uses that
<LucidFox> What, fuse-zip? No, nothing in DEs uses that.
<LucidFox> Heh, norsetto advocated his own package.
<LucidFox> Maybe I should do that for mine to get them reviewed sooner?
<ScottK> LucidFox: You can.
<ari-tczew> hello
<ari-tczew> I have a question
<ari-tczew> pbuilder = pdebuild ?
<LucidFox> man pdebuild\
<LucidFox> :)
<LucidFox> Basically, as I understand it, the difference is that pbuilder is invoked on the .dsc file, while pdebuild doesn't need a source package, only an unpacked directory.
<dholbach> highvoltage: hehe, yeah - I saw the MOTU music equipment brand before :)
<LucidFox> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masters_of_the_Universe <-- Aww, no logo.
<jmarsden> How long does it normally take for packages to autosync from Debian Testing into Lucid?  Hours?  Days?  Weeks??
<geser> depends on how often the archive admins start their autosync script
<geser> and with the new format 3.0 package it fails more often than in the past :(
<jmarsden> geser: Thanks. I was imagining some autosync script in a cron.{daily/hourly/whatever} doing the syncing.  I'll just be patient, it's not important :)
<ScottK> It's not cronned.  It has to be manually run
<fabrice_sp> porthose: bug 492155
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 492155 in jinja "Merge jinja 1.2-3 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/492155
<fabrice_sp> I think it should be a sync as the package is not in main anymore
<fabrice_sp> so no need to change dependency from recommend to suggest
<fabrice_sp> (I think)
<LLStarks> hey. i was wondering how i can request a package removal? libass3 isn't needed anymore since libass4 was added.
<bddebian> LLStarks: File a bug.  Subject should be:  RM: <package> -- ROM; <reasons for removal>  And file it against Package: ftp.debian.org
<bddebian> Oh sorry, wrong channel, I thought I was still in a Debian channel :)
<randomaction> LLStarks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removing%20Packages
<shiki-> !help
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<kklimonda> is Eclipse Public License DFSG compatible?
<ScottK> kklimonda: Is Ecplise licensed under it?
<kklimonda> ScottK: that's the question - I just thought abo ;)
<kklimonda> ScottK: looks like it is
<ScottK> Look and see which component of the archive Ecplise is in then.
<pochu> main
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-05
<sbalneav> Evening all.  I'm trying to package up cnetworkmanager, and running into a problem.  It's got a setup.py, and a Makefile that calls setup.py for install, etc targets.  In my rules, I've got DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pysupport, and include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/python-distutils.mk, and dh_pysupport under the binary-install/cnetworkmanager:: stanza.  But, none of the actual cnetworkmanager bits get included in the package.
<pting> i'm building php5 from source (php5_5.2.10.dfsg.1-2ubuntu6.3)... apt-get source php5 && dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc worked great... i was able to generate the debs... however, subsequent dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc seems to invokes a unpatch task in debian/rules... and it always fails at unpatching suhosin.patch... since this is my 1st attempt at building a package from source... am i possibly doing something wrong
<pting> ? i'm on karmic
<ScottK> sbalneav: It's unlikely yo uneed the  binary-install/cnetworkmanager:: stanza.  I'd try removing that.  Even easier, I'd try the debhelper 7 tiny rules.
<ScottK> pting: Mostly likely it's a bogus patch that doesn't unpatch reliably or a bug in the packge clean rule.  You ought to start from a clean source each time you build it.
<pting> ScottK, hum.. i ran dpkg-buildpackage without modifying the source after a apt-get source php5... i'll try it again just to make sure
<sbalneav> ScottK: Yer some kinda freakin' genius.  Thanks!
<sbalneav> ScottK: One other stupid question.  It's definitely doing things now, and I'm using the rules.tiny.  but it's trying to run tests as part of the makefile in the check: target.  Any clues as to how I should turn that off?  it's trying to contact a dbus socket for network-manager, which blows fairly big chunks in a pbuilder chroot :)
<sbalneav> Should I just patch the makefile to remove the target?
<pting> ScottK: strange... here's the steps to repo it... apt-get source php5 && cd php5-5.2.10.dfsg.1 && fakeroot ./debian/rules configure && fakeroot ./debian/rules clean .... and the unpatching fails
<pting> maybe it's because i'm calling t he rules tasks manually heh
<JontheEchidna> sbalneav: It'd be better to see if there's a variable you can pass to the build to disable tests, but otherwise patching the tests out would work.
<pting> well, imma heading out... the more i look at this problem, the more i think it's a bug... i'll look at it some more later... happy holidays everyone
<ScottK> sbalneav: You're supposed to be able to pass 'nocheck' to and skip checks, not sure exactly how you do that in this case.
<sbalneav> Hmm, well DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck doesn't seem to do it...
<sbalneav> and dpatch-edit-patch patch foo gives me: dh: Unknown sequence unpatch (choose from: binary binary-arch binary-indep build clean install)
<ScottK> Not sure of the details.  Sorry.
<sbalneav> NP!  Thanks for the help!
<sbalneav> I'll just keep banging at it with the ball-peen hammer 'till it works :)
<kklimonda> what would be a version for 1.80 beta1 release when the stable one is going to be 1.80? 1.80~b1-0ubuntu1?
<ScottK> That would work.
<sbalneav> ScottK: got it.  Just followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python to the very letter.  Thanks for all the help!
<ScottK> No problem.  Glad it worked out.
<sbalneav> Since there's so few of us edubunters, and we've lost laserjock :( I'm gonna go for motu
<maco> sbalneav: why not go for edubuntu-dev? they should have their own upload rights infrastructure soonish, right?
<sbalneav> I'm already maintaining the sabayon package, and just updated irssi-plugin-xmpp today
<sbalneav> this is my first package from scratch.
<sbalneav> maco: That I'm not sure of, I'd have to check with highvoltage.
<maco> archive reorg means instead of motu / core-dev, its switching over to general / ubuntu desktop / ubuntu server / kubuntu / edubuntu / blah blah blah
<maco> kubuntu desktop and ubuntu desktop at least are done with being setup i think, but i dont know about edubuntu
<sbalneav> well, either edubuntu-dev or motu, my packaging-fu has to improve :) hence, my diddling tonight.  And cnetworkmanager's such a delightful little tool.  Controlling network manager from the command line's more my thing anyway :)
<maco> wait what?
<maco> thats possible? AWESOME
<sbalneav> I'll push it to my ppa
<sbalneav> uno momento por favor
<jdong> maco: you haven't seen cnetworkmanager before?
<jdong> you're missing out :)
<jdong> but yeah, it's a full blown CLI networkmanager client
<maco> jdong: i just use ifup!
<jdong> lol *eyerolls* ;-)
<maco> well i did silly things to my system due to a broken cd drive (installed on 64bit machine, kept the 64bit /etc to avoid reconfiguring krb/openafs/vpn, then moved the disk to 32bit machine)
<maco> so a lot of stuff is kinda broken *shrug* including knetworkmanager reporting that there's already a client running
<maxb> wow!
 * maxb installs cnetworkmanager
<sbalneav> https://edge.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/+archive/ppa
<maco> i dont care to debug it because 1) its certainly pebkac 2) i can workaround it easy enough
<sbalneav> for karmic
<maco> (other things that break when doing that: i have to use startx and audio is busted. i totally do not recommend keeping a cross-arch /etc)
<nigel_nb> maco: when would u get the time to help finish with that vmbuilder that you helped me start off?
<maco> yeah.... i think someone pointed out that the package included quilt hooks and that i should thus back up and explain it the quilt way instead of the normal way
<nigel_nb> oh oh
<nigel_nb> which means we get to do it again all over?
<maco> i dont remember how far we got
<nigel_nb> we got as far as actually editing the diff for the correct directories
<maco> ok
<nigel_nb> the diff was written to correct the bug when it was actually installed
<maco> so make a debian/patches directory in the package
<nigel_nb> we didn't get that far
<nigel_nb> the last time, the edited debdiff didn't work on dry run
<maco> pastebin your edited one
<maco> because my edited one did :P
<maco> oh i think there was one line where the whitespace was off...
<nigel_nb> huh
<nigel_nb> okay
<nigel_nb> wait
<nigel_nb> I did the whole thing again
<maco> ok
<nigel_nb> and I donno if the result showed that it worked or not :P
<maco> huh?
<nigel_nb> wait, I'll get you what it said
<nigel_nb> Hunk #1 succeeded at 26 (offset -1 lines).
<nigel_nb> patching file VMBuilder/plugins/libvirt/templates/libvirtxml.tmpl
<nigel_nb> thats a complete success ?
<maco> yes
 * nigel_nb blushes 
<nigel_nb> ok, so what do I do next?
<maco> now make a debian/patches directory in your source package
<nigel_nb> inside the debian directory rite?
<maco> well if inside the debian directory, then simply patches
<maco> and set: export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
<maco> (may want to just plain put that in your .bashrc)
<nigel_nb> where in the .bashrc does this go?
<maco> anywhere
<nigel_nb> done
<maco> then itll be set for you all the time when you're working on packages
<nigel_nb> ah okay :)
<maco> if you didnt run that command on its own though, do so
<nigel_nb> the patch?
<maco> the export...
<maco> since .bashrc takes effect on new shells (or after you run: source ~/.bashrc)
<nigel_nb> it say set:: command not found
<nigel_nb> extra :?
<maco> dont put the word set:
<maco> just
<maco> export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
<nigel_nb> okay, my stupdity, sorry
<nigel_nb> done
<maco> dtchen says i should  point out that "source" is *only* an ok command to use in bash, dont put it in scripts
<nigel_nb> meaning I have to run in manually?
<maco> no meaning if youre making scripts for a packge, dont use the command "source"
<nigel_nb> oh okay
<dtchen> e.g., http://pastebin.com/d1fb25a21
<nigel_nb> ah, that way :)
<nigel_nb> source command actually updates bash?
<jmarsden> nigel_nb: No, source command only exists in bash, not in sh
<nigel_nb> jmarsden: oh okay, but what is its exact function?
<dtchen> from bash(1): Read and execute commands from filename in the current shell environment and return the exit status of the last command executed from filename
<jmarsden> It reads lines of a file and executes them as you they were right there in your script
<jmarsden> nigel_nb: help source
<nigel_nb> now, why didn't I try help, I tried man
<nigel_nb> thanks guys :)
<jmarsden> nigel_nb: For bash internal commands, use help, for external commands, use man :)
<dtchen> I always refer to man, because not everyone uses bash(1)
<nigel_nb> never realized that, now I'm embarassed to know how much of a newbie I actually am :(
<jmarsden> dtchen: well, someone who uses source without thinking about it probably *does* use bash :)
<dtchen> hence why I use man page references :-)
<nigel_nb> okay, what next?
<nigel_nb> maco: off to bed?
<maco> nigel_nb: by the way when dtchen says bash(1) he means "man 1 bash"
<maco> soon, yes. feeling rather sick
<maco> after this cup of tea
<nigel_nb> how free are you on sunday?
<maco> busy. school projects and a dinner outing
<nigel_nb> in a sense we're in the same boat
<nigel_nb> I'm out with cold
<nigel_nb> worked all night
<nigel_nb> now its 12:37 PM
<maco> i feel like the top of my head is trying to kersplode off. i think i have a sinus infection :(
<nigel_nb> strange, I got up yday at someting like 4 PM
<nigel_nb> oh oh
<nigel_nb> get to a doc soon
<nigel_nb> or get some tylenol sinus (not sure if its OTC)
<maco> i have lots of sudafed, ill be ok :)
<nigel_nb> been off the clinic note stuff for quite some time, dont remember the cold drugs :(
<nigel_nb> in real life, I work as a medical transcriptionist
<nigel_nb> maco: want to do this later? :)
<maco> yeah
<nigel_nb> thought so, and I feel guilty keeping you up when u're sick
<nigel_nb> some time on sunday?
<maco> as i said busy sunday
<maco> maybe saturday?
<maco> well its technically saturday now
<maco> but i mean the saturday evening that comes in 15 hours :P
<nigel_nb> well, its saturday afternoon for me now
<nigel_nb> and I got work tonight
<nigel_nb> :(
<nigel_nb> which extends to next week
<nigel_nb> how about some time next week then, if u're free
<nigel_nb> maco: ?
<maco> ok
<maco> are you in au or nz or something?
<nigel_nb> go to bed :)
<maco> timezones are confusing.
<maco> hehe its almost 3am here
<nigel_nb> a little way too ahead
<maco> on saturday
<nigel_nb> I'm in India
<maco> ah ok
<nigel_nb> 2:42
<nigel_nb> I know
<nigel_nb> I added you to my clock
<maco> ah ok. i just have europe in my clock list
<nigel_nb> its 1:15 here :)
<nigel_nb> and I'm fatigued
<nigel_nb> I'm a little more ahead of "that" time :P
<nigel_nb> btw, I did mail you sometime last week
<nigel_nb> or I think I mailed you, from LP
<nigel_nb> I'm off then, catch you later :)
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, if you are around did you still have some merges you wanted a hand with, im running our of sync requests
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, I have an upgrade
<fabrice_sp> let me check
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> well: merge/sync
<mannyv> oh i was going to say i havent done  an upgrade before
<fabrice_sp> uim: I upgraded it for Karmic, and now, Debian has a newer version
<fabrice_sp> it's a kind of 'messy' package
<mannyv> well i could give it a shot, about time i got my hands dirty
<fabrice_sp> unstable has 1.5.7 (because of a build dependency), and Lucid 1.5.6 :-)
 * fabrice_sp has to check if he has more merge/sync waiting in MoM
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, you can also have a look at hydrogen
<fabrice_sp> I had a quick look, and it should be a merge
<mannyv> ok uim and hydrogen
<fabrice_sp> yes
<fabrice_sp> and I've just seen that porthose stole me a sync! ;-)
<fabrice_sp> so for any contributor: remember to ask previous uploader, before working on a merge or a sync
 * fabrice_sp goes back to sponsoring :-) 
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, I was having a look at cyrus-sasl2-heimdal and there is no difference between the ubuntu and debian package  http://pastebin.com/f38ce0ad9, except for the standard maintainer/original-maintainer fields. It builds fine but I cant do a test install because one of its depends is waiting for a merge
<mannyv> it should have been a sync and not a merge last time too
<fabrice_sp> which depends?
<mannyv> Depends: libsasl2-modules (>= 2.1.23.dfsg1-3) but 2.1.23.dfsg1-2ubuntu1 is installed
<fabrice_sp> hmm: this package is in main... I can't help you more than saying: ask to zul to see if he is willing to work on the merge again
<mannyv> ok i will talk to him next time he is around, and i am awake, good night =)
<fabrice_sp> good night :-)
<fabrice_sp> by the way: did you put in MoM that you are working on hydrogen and uim merge?
<fabrice_sp> Did it for you :-)
<stochastic> Is there any reason why Raul http://packages.debian.org/source/squeeze/raul and Flowcanvas http://packages.debian.org/source/squeeze/flowcanvas have not yet been pulled from squeeze into Lucid?  Is there a proper way to request these?
<fabrice_sp> stochastic, are they 3.0 source format?
 * stochastic isn't sure what that means
<fabrice_sp> by the way, what about bug 479156?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 479156 in ubuntustudio-menu "gnome-app-install instead of ubuntu-software-center" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/479156
<fabrice_sp> hmm, flowcanvas is 1.0 format :-/
<stochastic> fabrice_sp, that has been committed for Lucid's codbase
<fabrice_sp> no idea then
<fabrice_sp> u-u-s has been subscribed. So you want someone to review it?
<fabrice_sp> it's still in progress
<stochastic> fabrice_sp, I'm not sure what to mark that bug
<fabrice_sp> do want your debdiff to be sponsored?
<stochastic> fabrice_sp, I've committed the code changes to the bzr branch of ubuntustudio's seeds, but for it to be fixed in Karmic, someone else will need to push the debdiff
<stochastic> I don't have the upload privileges
<fabrice_sp> oh, for karmic. so it's a SRU
<stochastic> yeah, but I'm not sure if the bug deserves a SRU fix for karmic
 * stochastic hasn't ever filed an SRU before
<fabrice_sp> you should subscribe ubuntu-sru team, then
<fabrice_sp> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<fabrice_sp> just follow the guide ;-)
<stochastic> fabrice_sp, do you think that bug deserves an SRU?
<fabrice_sp> let me check
<stochastic> or should it just get fixed in Lucid and be left at that?
<fabrice_sp> not sure it's worth a SRU
<stochastic> that's what I was thinking
<fabrice_sp> what do think ubuntustudio members?
<stochastic> ??? who are you asking?
<stochastic> I can raise the issue at the next Ubuntu Studio Developer's meeting (Dec 13th)
<stochastic> fabrice_sp, so what's the proper way to request Raul and Flowcanvas?
<fabrice_sp> new packages should have been synced. Ask an archive admin, because I don't know
<stochastic> fabrice_sp, do you know of any archive admins that would be around?
<geser> as autosync needs now more handholding as in the past, I get the impression it's get done less frequent
<stochastic> geser, would you know any archive admins that would be responsive a this time on a saturday?
<geser> stochastic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#Archive%20days
<fabrice_sp> have to go. Bye
<geser> nobody on the weekends, unless you are lucky to reach one of them and presuade him
<stochastic> geser, okay thanks.  I'll wait
<cjwatson> stochastic: raul and flowcanvas (among others) are on their way in now
<geser> anyone familiar with python-central around?
<pochu> mvo and doko, but they're not around :)
<pochu> POX too
<pochu> geser: what's up?
<geser> bug 490731
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 490731 in distribute "python-setuptools: import setuptools returns ValueError: ("Missing 'Version:' ...)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/490731
<geser> hmm, when thinking more about it, isn't this more a dpkg problem? I remember something about changing a directory into a symlink
<pochu> geser: sounds like a bug in the package
<pochu> it should rmdir the directory in preinst I think
<geser> yes, "A directory will never be replaced by a symbolic link to a directory or vice versa;" (policy 6.6.4)
<stochastic> cjwatson, thank you very much!
<stochastic> grr, flowcanvas failed to build
<stochastic> hmm, on this build log: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36472094/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.flowcanvas_0.5.1-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz there's a line that says "sh: gcc: not found"  what could be causing gcc not to be found on a compile?
<geser> stochastic: that line appears in all build logs, you can ignore that
<geser> "error: 'uint32_t' has not been declared
<geser> looks like a missing include (or a missing define)
<stochastic> geser, yeah, it looks like it's a compiler issue with the code.  It built fine in Debian.
<geser> stochastic: debian still uses gcc 4.3 by default, right? Ubuntu has gcc 4.4
 * stochastic checks debian, but knows we use 4.4
<stochastic> yes, that's correct
<geser> did you do a testbuild before requesting the sync, didn't you?
<stochastic> no, I was just eager to start building higher level packages
<stochastic> geser, so the proper way to go about fixing this is to file a 'fails to build' bug on flowcanvas, get a patch cooked up, then make a debdiff?
<geser> yes, and forward it to debian and upstream. Debian will have the same problem once it moves to gcc 4.4
<stochastic> okay, will do.
<ScottL> i'm working with the ubuntu studio developers trying to package lv2 apps for lucid
<ScottL> but i don't think i've set up my pbuilder correctly for using lucid
<ScottL> it doesn't seem to find the new lv2 apps already in lucid for building these new ones
<ScottL> can someone answer a few questions about setting up pbuilder for newer releases
<ScottL> this is the information that i've been following:   https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/gs-pbuilder.html
<geser> ScottL: do you have universe enabled in your pbuilder?
<ScottL> geser, to be honest, i'm not sure  i did update pbuilder with --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com lucid universe mulitiverse"
<ScottL> geser, are you talking about settings in ~./pbuilderrc?   I just found this in the wiki for pbuilder
<geser> better check inside your pbuilder (pbuilder login) if universe is enabled (e.g. by looking at /etc/apt/sources.list)
<ScottL> geser, i loging into the pbuilder and found sources.list but I don't know how to open it, gedit, less, vi, nano all don't work
<geser> cat or install less (apt-get install less)
<ScottL> geser, i forget about cat and quite frankly i didn't think to try apt-get inside the chroot environment, but I should have, brb
<geser> a pbuilder chroot is very minimal so everything you need you have to install
<ScottL> geser, using cat it i found that it only includes the main repository, so I could echo "deb etc, etc lucid universe" >> /etc/apt/security.list  no?
<ScottL> but how would I save the changes under the chroot?
<ScottL> obviously i need to read up on the chroot instead of just the pbuilder stuff
<geser> either that (but then you need pbuilder login --save-after-login) or use the steps on the pbuilder wiki page
<ScottL> i'll try the login --save-after-login....man, thanks a million
<ryanakca> When a library bumps it's SONAME (libfoo1 -> libfoo2), and I bump it in control, do I have to add a conflicts or a replaces for libfoo1 ?
<geser> no, that way you can have libfoo1 and libfoo2 both installed (unless you have a file conflict)
<jmarsden> ryanakca: Usually, yes.  If the two libs can coexist on a system, no.
<porthose> ScottL, have a look at pbuild-dist in ubuntu-dev-tools, I find it handy for managing multiple pbuilders :)
<ryanakca> jmarsden: How can I find out if the can coexist?
<jmarsden> ryanakca: Try installing them both and see if they conflict :)
<ryanakca> jmarsden: lovely :)
<geser> ScottL: btw your nick is pretty close to ScottK :)
<ScottL> porthose, I read about that and I look forward to having that as I dabble in backporting jack, ardour, celt, ffado for ubuntu studio
<ScottL> porthose, but i want to keep it simple until i feel like i have thing a little more under control ;P
<porthose> ScottL, cool :)
<ScottL> geser, yeah, our last names even have the same number of syllables   :D
<ScottL> oh, it appears that it's working btw    thanks you guys, big time help
<qnix> hmm... what the other tool similar to cowbuilder/pbuilder ?
<qnix> cbuilder? something like that...
<geser> sbuild?
<qnix> yea! thx.
<qnix> What are the benefits to use it instead of cowbuilder&
<mok0_> qnix, the real advantage of sbuild is that you can use it with LVM snapshots
<qnix> so, the chroot is never corrupt or something?
<qnix> I've never had problem with my current setup. (not using snapshot)
<hyperair> it really depends which technology you prefer
<hyperair> i prefer cowbuilder since my space isn't limited.
<davromaniak> hi
<davromaniak> I would like to know if there's a template page for the laptop tests on the wiki
<qnix> Currently, My build machine is a openvz vm, so I guess sbuild will not bring me any benefit.
<qnix> It works well, and I can move my build machine anywhere easily.
<qnix> Anyway, will try sbuild a day for sure.
<ryanakca> libqinfinity bumped its SONAME from 1 to 2 between 1.0~beta3-1 and 1.0~beta4-1, are these the correct conflicts? http://paste.ubuntu.com/335401/
<fcuk112> doing a merge using grab-merge.  i updated the files that appeared in the REPORT file under the debian folder, but apart from that i do not see any other changes that need to be made.  does this mean i need to raise a sync bug?
<fcuk112> the patches under debian/diff still apply.
<geser> ryanakca: why the conflicts at all?
<geser> fcuk112: which package did you work on?
<fcuk112> geser: it's dash.
<ryanakca> geser: Wait, I don't need them now that I look at it, I didn't want an old version of libqinfinity-dev to be installed alongside libqinfinity2, so I would just need to have a conflicts between libqinfinity2 and libqinfinity1 so that the two don't get installed together.
<geser> ryanakca: can't they both be installed at the same time?
<ryanakca> geser: Well, wouldn't having libqinfinity-dev and both libqinfinity1 and libqinfinity2 installed at the same time cause confusion? If I had libqinfinity-dev installed and upgraded to libqinfinity2, I would want to make sure libqinfinity-dev got upgraded too
<geser> fcuk112: the files mentioned in the REPORT are files that MoM can't merge itself (listed at Conflicts). This files need human action. But they might be other changes which MoM could apply itself (like new patches in debian/patches)
<fcuk112> geser: there's no debian/patches folder, just debian/diff - i checked those and they still appear to apply (no changes).
<fcuk112> geser: so i just updated 2 files which appeared in the REPORT file.
<fcuk112> geser: so no additional changes to add in the changelog => should it be a sync?
<porthose> fcuk112, you should be asking yourself, in debian/changelog what changed to caused the initial delta :)  If the change that caused the delta is still needed then merge the package if not sync it :)
<geser> fcuk112: then check if the other Ubuntu changes got included in the Debian package
<geser> ryanakca: only if you care about users, the buildds will pick up the latest available version
<ScottK> ryanakca: Generally you want the libraries themselves to co-installable for transition purposes.
<ryanakca> geser, ScottK: OK. So no conflicts / whatsoever?
<ryanakca> conflicts/replaces
<geser> no
<fcuk112> geser: these are the previous ubuntu changes: http://pastie.org/729226.  how do i check if these have been applied in the debian package?
<geser> what about the changes from -2ubuntu1?
<fcuk112> geser: http://pastie.org/729232
<geser> you should have a patch with all the Ubuntu delta (or look at LP for the changes between each upload) and check if the debian/changelog mentions them (you might also look into the changed files)
<fcuk112> geser: these changes have been picked up in the new version.
<geser> fcuk112: if I don't know what is left after the merge attempt from MoM, I create a debdiff between the Debian version and the MoM version and look what is inside
<fcuk112> geser: OK, thanks.
<ari-tczew> is debhelper 7.3.16 somehow specially changed than 7.3?
<jgoppert> how do i build a package that depends on sudo-ldap, i need to export SUDO_FORCE_REMOVE=yes, i tried doing this in my preinst script but this didn't work
<jgoppert> s there any way to have a package export an environment variable exported before conflicting packages are removed?
<jgoppert> *is there any way to have a package export an environment variable before conflicting packages are removed
<ScottK> jgoppert: It's probably better if you explain what problem you are trying to solve.
<jgoppert> i was trying to create a meta-package for ldap client that had sudo-ldap and other packages, but sudo-ldap requries that you export SUDO_FORCE_REMOVE=yes, i tried to put this in the hsl-desktop.preinst file but it didn't run before the conflicting packages were removed, which triggered the sudo-ldap.prerm script that check for the exported variable
<jgoppert> i asked over at debian-mentors and was told to just give up on sudo-ldap and try to use pam
<ScottK> Probably good advice, although it's not really a part of the system I know a lot about.
<jgoppert> well thanks for you input Scott
<jgoppert> if i want to package a vimrc.local file in a meta package for my workstations how should i install it?
<jgoppert> the meta package doesn't have a makefile, should i just put the install command in debian rules?
<geser> yes
<jgoppert> thanks
<Guest39184> Have few questions about packaging. anyone willing to help ?
<nhandler> Guest39184: Try asking the questions. People will respond if they know the answer
<Guest39184> ok is there any skeleton script for rc scripts in debian ?
<Guest39184> or are any special requirements for rc scripts ?
<Guest39184> sorry.. by debian i mean ubuntu of course :)
<Guest39184> can anyone pls confirm that this applies also to ubuntu ? http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html#s-sysvinit
<ScottK> Guest39184: Sort if.  We use upstart instead of sysvinit, but it's got a compatibility mode, so that should work.
<Guest39184> I am trying to create a package for a software that does not use autoconf but just a plain makefile. I created package skeleton with "dh_make -s -c gpl" but i do not know how to tell in rules file that makefile is located in src/ directory not in package root. Any ideas ?
<geser> either "cd src && make" or "make -C src"
<Guest39184> geser, thx works great
<Guest39184> I understand that in install target of makefile binaries should be copied to $(DESTDIR)/bin and configuration files to $(DESTDIR)/etc. Is this correct? Where should I copy man pages ?
<geser> $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin ($DESTDIR is usually debian/tmp as the staging directory for packaging building)
<sebner> mighty geser, as lively as ever, especially at that time :)
<geser> Hi sebner :)
<Guest39184> so binaries to $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin and manpage to $(DESTDIR)/usr/share/man/man8
<ScottK> If they are in section 8, yes.
<Guest39184> I would like to create a package for 10.04 release. Which version of ubuntu should I use to create the source package?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-06
<ScottK> Usually it doesn't matter for the source package.
<RoAkSoAx> cemc, ping
<cemc> RoAkSoAx: pong
<RoAkSoAx> cemc, any luck with the fix for havp in debian ? :)
<cemc> RoAkSoAx: well, not really... I opened a bugreport, and attached my patch, which I think would fix it. now it's up to the maintainer I think
<RoAkSoAx> cemc, I see. well I run into an issue that I've been told to discuss with you. The issue is when purging. Here i attach it as well as the possible fix: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/335597/
<cemc> RoAkSoAx: I'm not sure this will work... I think that postrm script will have the same problem unmounting the loop file as the init script has
<sachin6870> Hi Everyone
<ScottK> Hello sachin6870
<sachin6870> Hi Scott, I want to contribute to Gnome desktop for Ubuntu
<sachin6870>  I developed one gnome applet, I want it be part of ubuntu official repo
<ScottK> sachin6870: Then #ubuntu-desktop is probably a better place to start.
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> We do help with packaging here, so this might be the right place.
<sachin6870> ok thanks
<sachin6870> http://cricscoreapplet.sourceforge.net/
<sachin6870> this is project home page
<sachin6870> Can you please help me with procedure?
<ScottK> I can give you some general advice.
<sachin6870> That will be great
<ScottK> I'm busy with a few other things tonight, so I don't have time for detailed assitance.
<ScottK> !revu | sachin6870
<ubottu> sachin6870: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<sachin6870> no problem.
<ScottK> !packagingguide | sachin6870
<ubottu> sachin6870: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<ScottK> Those will get you started.
<sachin6870> ok
<ScottK> When you have questions, just ask them and usually if someone is around who knows the answer, they will help you.
<sachin6870> ok
<sachin6870> Thanks Scott for your valuable time.
<ScottK> No problem.  It's always good to see new people who want to contribute.
<dtchen> so, who are my unlucky souls using Analog Devices HDA codecs?
<nigel_nb> maco: how long are you gonna be up?
<diwic> dtchen: sorry, HDA ATI SB here, but when you get to Realtek ALC888, count me in.
<micahg> anyone have a link to the remove from archive instruction page?
<dtchen> diwic: ugh, Realtek is a mindfsck in and of itself
<dtchen> granted, the www.analog.com giving me crap for data sheet searches is less than useful
<dtchen> ok, never ever do a hard reset and then pull into a branch :(
<dtchen> I just nuked all my powerdown-analog work in one second. Thank goodness for rsync backups.
<jdong> dtchen: git scares me in that sense at times.
<jdong> being an incredibly powerful tool with a clunky UI, I've found it way too easy to do the wrong thing (tm)
<jdong> of course I've typically been lucky enough to be in the presence of a git deity with some magic sequence of even less intuitive commands to get things back
<jdong> (no pun intended)
<micahg> jdong: you have the link to the package removal instruction page?
<jdong> micahg: no, I do not
<jmarsden> micahg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removing%20Packages
<jmarsden> I think!
<micahg> thanks jmarsden
<jmarsden> You're welcome
<damagednoob> with those motu videos on youtube (dholbach), is any of that stuff written down anywhere?
<stochastic_> can anyone point me to a good basic tutorial on building a patch with quilt?
<geser> stochastic_: there is a wiki page about adding a patch with quilt
<geser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems#quilt%20%28example%20package:%20xterm%29
<stochastic_> google found a nice explanatory pdf file after I hunted through about five other "introductions" that were more like latin than introductory.
<stochastic_> that wiki page really doesn't explain how to add a patch, it gives a one-line example as the editor, but doesn't explain itself
<stochastic_> to a beginner it's pretty useless.
 * stochastic_ ended up reading this: http://www.suse.de/~agruen/quilt.pdf
<pochu> quilt is not the easiest patch system to learn, but is awesome to work with once you've learnt it
<stochastic_> pochu, so, once a quilt diff file exists in debian/patches, and is listed in debian/patches/series then what does a person need to do to ensure the patch is applied at build time?
<pochu> check the build log :)
<stochastic_> lol, okay.
<pochu> if the patch system was already there and you only added a new patch, it should be okay though
<stochastic_> no, there was no patch system
<diwic> stochastic_: are you using cdbs, debhelper etc?
<diwic> stochastic_: http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/howto/quilt.html
<stochastic_> diwic, the package uses debhelper - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/raul/0.5.1-1
<diwic> stochastic_: according to the howto I just posted you're supposed to do "dh --with quilt" in debian/rules
<stochastic_> diwic, okay, thanks.  Though the rules file in that package is really strange looking.  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/335808/
<diwic> stochastic_: that's normal for a debhelper 7 - just change "dh $@" to "dh --with quilt $@"
<stochastic_> diwic, ahh thanks.
<diwic> stochastic_: and add dependency debhelper >= 7.0.8 (and quilt)
<stochastic_> diwic, yes I had quilt already added.  debhelper needs to be >=7.0.8 though?
<diwic> stochastic_: I'm just retelling the howto for you :-)
<stochastic_> ;)
 * stochastic_ waits for pbuilder to update to lucid...
<pochu> 7.0.8 added the --with option
<jariq> I am creating package for network daemon. Should I create sysv init script or upstart job or both ? What is the best pactice for ubuntu now ?
<rjnienaber> is there anywhere on the wiki that details how to setup your system for package building?
<rjnienaber> if not i could create a page
<diwic> rjnienaber: sudo apt-get install build-essentials ?
<rjnienaber> i was thinking something more along the lines of this: http://owlsayswoot.therandomist.com/2009/12/06/maintaining-ubuntu-package-setting-up-your-system/
<diwic> rjnienaber: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<rjnienaber> there seems to be some detail in the video that's not on the wiki
<tsimpson> it is a wiki, edit it ;)
<rjnienaber> cool :)
<feasty>  identify beasty
<feasty> oops
<elky> oops would be quite correct.
<feasty> :)
<lfaraone> Hi, I'm building a package which depends on pandoc. When I attempt to build it with pbuilder, pbuilder co mplains that it is a virtual package and cannot continue, but synaptic says it isn't a virtual package. What gives?
<tsimpson> lfaraone: make sure pbuilder is using the right release and is up to date
<lfaraone> tsimpson: it's on karmic, and I just rebuilt base.tgz
<randomaction> lfaraone: do you have universe enabled in your pbuilder?
<lfaraone> randomaction: I didn't explictly enable it, what do I need to do/
<lfaraone> *?
<randomaction> lfaraone: try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Universe%20support
<nigel_nb> does the bot work in here? bug 394373
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 394373 in qalculate-kde "Inconsistent menu entries across calculator program" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394373
<nigel_nb> strange, it works
<lfaraone> Hey, would a "package cannot be removed under non english locales" be SRU-worthy?
<jdong> lfaraone: sure sounds like it to me
<lfaraone> jdong: mk.
<kklimonda> lfaraone: you have a linl to bug report about this package? I wonder what's wrong with it :)
<lfaraone> kklimonda: it's a funny bug. the daemon "stop" code checks a error message for a string rather than looking for the error code.
<lfaraone> kklimonda: bug 479131. I just checked in a fix upstream which works for me, and am now going to prepare my first SRU :)
<kklimonda> and update calls restart, right?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/479131)
<lfaraone> kklimonda: yes.
<kklimonda> funny
<lfaraone> kklimonda: mhm. the fix is trivial (see http://code.google.com/p/autokey/source/diff?spec=svn192&r=192&format=side&path=/trunk/src/lib/daemon.py&old_path=/trunk/src/lib/daemon.py&old=73 ), but I'll have to push out a new lucid revision first, right?
<kklimonda> lfaraone: well, it depends but the best way is to fix it in current development version first indeed
<kklimonda> i wonder if this fix is fine
<kklimonda> before err.errno is checked err is casted to string so .errno is lost
<lfaraone> kklimonda: oh! right, I forgot about that.
<lfaraone> Fixed in svn:193
<lfaraone> kklimonda: does that look sane?
<kklimonda> yes
<wrapster> while trying to install a pkg i get this erorr.."trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/logname', which is also in package coreutils
<wrapster> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken Pipe
<lfaraone> lintian is complaining about my DEP3-style headers (which lack "## DP:")
<lfaraone> Is this a good reason to override?
<dtchen> wrapster: please pastebin the entire dpkg output
<dtchen> according to the 9.10 archive there is only one package that contains that file
<wrapster> dtchen: http://pastie.org/730680
<dtchen> wrapster: is this nexenta?
<wrapster> dtchen: yeah.
<wrapster> but since it was a pkging issue i asked it here..
<wrapster> sorry if i was worng.
<wrapster> but would really appreaciate if you could at least tell me where to look ?
<geser> wrapster: perhaps this package should also divert /usr/bin/logname but the nexenta guys should know better than us
<wrapster> geser: where are the diverts specified? and are they same as pkgname.links? file!!
<wrapster> i mean do both do the same job?
<kklimonda> lfaraone: you should add comment to your patch. and if you are not willing to do that don't override lintian warnings - just let them be
<wrapster> geser: any idea?
<dtchen> wrapster: the nexenta web site is very confusing to me
<dtchen> wrapster: that source doesn't appear to be in hardy-unstable at all, either
<dtchen> wrapster: but yes, what geser said is correct
<dtchen> wrapster: it's probably best to approach the specific nexenta porting folks for this issue
<wrapster> dtchen: ok.. thanks
<lfaraone> dtchen: i'm using a proprietary display/keyboard/mouse/audio peripheral from NComputing, and sound works under Gnome but not Sugar. What should I do to go about debugging it?
<dtchen> you lost me at proprietary
<dtchen> anyhow -- start with http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh
<lfaraone> dtchen: yeah, it pains me too. for some reason the company that produces them is worried that if they FOSS their software then people will make cheap knockoffs of their peripherals.
<dtchen> not my concern, really, but lack of source makes it difficult to point out bugs in the audio source code, yadda yadda
<dtchen> wow, there really is a crackton of broken HDA controllers
<dtchen> maybe we should just invert this list and make everything use position_fix=1
<ajmitch> you can bet that will bring its own set of problems
<dtchen> oh of course
 * ajmitch gets the impression there's no silver bullet to fix this
<dtchen> if there's anything I've learned, it's that any action will break some non-trivial, very vocal portion of the userbase
<ajmitch> maybe some garlic & stakes through the heart of HDA
<dtchen> nah, just through that of the OEMs
<ajmitch> that'd be more fun
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-06
<geser> stgraber: Hi, can you "sandbox" be used to mimic the no-net-access from buildds in pbuilder?
<stgraber> geser: I'm not sure how it's done on the buildds, but the no-network option of sandbox basically gives you a system where you only see a loopback device, so it might do the trick.
<geser> that would be enough, till I had no idea how to "disable" net inside the pbuilder but not my host
<stgraber> do you know if you can change the call to "chroot" in pbuilder to start another command ?
<stgraber> if so, you could simply replace that call by: "/usr/bin/sandbox-helper nonetwork" followed by the usual parameters (path to the chroot and command)
<geser> I might need to make my own "pbuilder" but it should be doable
<geser> and having pbuilder itself using a tmpfs is no problem?
<stgraber> well, if you replace "chroot" by "/usr/bin/sandbox-helper nonetwork" it'll only use the namespace switching part of sandbox, it won't create a tmpfs or anything. It'll just behave exactly like chroot.
<geser> I guess the sandbox and the host don't share the lo device, right? as I use apt-cacher-ng to download the debs
<geser> perhaps I can only "sandbox" the package building itself (and not the build-dep installation too). Will have to check the pbuilder shell scripts
<stgraber> indeed, that's two separate lo
<geser> do I need sudo inside the pbuilder?
<geser> stgraber: http://paste.ubuntu.com/540131/ the first line is the old call, the second line what I replace it with and the third the error I get
<geser> I don't know where the sudo comes from
<stgraber> geser: ah right, I forgot about this part of sandbox-helper, it's usually started as root using sudo and then it sudo back to the original user
<stgraber> geser: so, in theory (though it's slight hackish), if you can manage to get sudo installed in the chroot and make sure SUDO_USER=root in your environment, it should work fine
<stgraber> as it'll basically do "chroot <target> sudo -u root <cmd>" in the new namespace (yeah, as I said, hackish)
<geser> a sandbox-raw (without the chroot call) would be nice so I could use it for pbuilder (simply add it before the chroot call)
<geser> btw: wouldn't using "chroot --userspec=${SUDOUSER}" allow you to do it without sudo? (not that it would help me for pbuilder)
<geser> a --nonetwork option to chroot would be nice
<stgraber> ah, didn't know of userspec, that'll help quite a bit indeed. I'll do that in the next release.
<stgraber> I'm trying to build you a stripped down version that does what you want
<geser> just noticed it myself by looking at the chroot manpage if perhaps it already has a --no-network option :)
<stgraber> geser: http://paste.ubuntu.com/540135/
<stgraber> geser: gcc sandbox-raw.c -o sandbox-raw
<stgraber> geser: then you can call it with: ./sandbox-raw chroot <path> <cmd>
<stgraber> needs to run as root
<stgraber> the code is now in lp:~stgraber/+junk/sandbox too (though not added to the Makefile)
<geser> thanks
<geser> my patched pbuilder doesn't error out anymore, but for some reason which I don't know yet it behaves now different
<stgraber> how so ?
<stgraber> I'm not familiar with exactly how pbuilder works, but if you want it to work properly, you'll need to make sure it mounts /proc from inside the chroot, not from the outside
<stgraber> otherwise you'll get a /proc from the wrong namespace
<geser> that's the output I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/540136/
<geser> with sandbox-raw
<stgraber> ouch, that's really weird
<stgraber> would be interesting to know where that "can't read xvt_2.1-20_amd64.changes!" comes from and exactly what failed there
<geser> that's one of my pbuilder hooks which gets run after a successfull builds, but this doesn't look like a successful build
<stgraber> yeah, it just stopped after the first step ...
<geser> the same without sandbox-raw http://paste.ubuntu.com/540137/ (the FTBFS is expected)
<geser> and the only change I did was to the following line in pbuilder: 'echo "$DPKG_COMMANDLINE" | $CHROOTEXEC $SUTOUSER' adding sandbox-raw before the $CHROOTEXEC
<stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/540138/
<stgraber> can you try this one instead ?
<stgraber> it's even more stripped down to only do the network namespace part and keep all the rest as it's
<geser> stgraber: that one works better as I get the expected FTBFS
<stgraber> cool, can you try doing something that needs network access during the build process ?
<geser> I've modified my pbuilder to also run my hooks with sandbox-raw. One of the hooks starts a shell if the package FTBFS and I tried now to install a package with this shell: "Network is unreachable" :)
<stgraber> cool
<geser> yeah
<stgraber> ok, current code is in rev38 of sandbox and has been renamed to sandbox-raw-nonetwork (yeah, long but at least we know what it does ;))
<c2tarun> are there any defined coding standards for source codes (except proper indentation) that one has to follow before uploading a package??
<ssj6akshat> c2tarun, hey, fixed that bug?
<c2tarun> ssj6akshat: not yet :(
<ssj6akshat> k
<c2tarun> can anyone please help me with the packages having source code in .cs format.
<RAOF> c2tarun: Sounds like a C# app.  What's your question?
<c2tarun> RAOF: i was looking at the source code of tomboy and found that its code is in cd format. how can i make changes to that code and check on ubuntu that it is working. i think c# is not supported by ubuntu
 * micahg coughs...mono
<c2tarun> very sorry micahg, my net is not working properly so i cant look about mono. i'll come back ASAP, please be there/
<RAOF> c2tarun: The package build system itself is a demonstration of how to build it.
<RAOF> If you've got the build-dependencies of the tomboy package, you've got all the dependencies required to build it.  Beyond that, it's fairly standard autofoo.
<c2tarun> RAOF: sorry i m not getting properly of what you are saying. are you saying that all i need to do the desired changes and go to the standard package building procedure and it will work??
<RAOF> Yes.  Because the tomboy package is an Ubuntu package; it builds on the build daemons like any other package.
<c2tarun> wow... thanks :) if that worked this will be my first contribution ( though its not a bug, its in wishlist :P).
<MTecknology> How can I force myself to be dropped into the pbuilder environment after it finishes building with or without errors?
<nigelb> MTecknology: there is a hook for that
<paultag> MTecknology: you mean --login   ?
<paultag> MTecknology: you should not log in, you can cause a lot of issues in the resulting deb
<nigelb> paultag: that's for debugging and I've done that before
<paultag> MTecknology: calling login gets you in the image, then gets rid of the stuff you did, you should not login when you're building a deb
<paultag> nigelb: yeah, I know
<paultag> nigelb: :)
<nigelb> :)
<paultag> nigelb: did you get my PMs?
<MTecknology> I plan on purposely breaking things in there :P
<paultag> nigelb: I did some good stuff
<nigelb> paultag: I did, I did :)
<nigelb> MTecknology: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Running a Shell When Build Fails (Intro to Hook Scripts)
<paultag> nigelb: whana see the demo I did?
<MTecknology> thanks :)
<nigelb> np :)
<nigelb> paultag: sure :D
<MTecknology> using --login didn't drop me in after the build
<paultag> MTecknology: sudo pbuilder --login    ?
<MTecknology> sudo pbuilder-dist lucid ../nginx_0.8.53-2.dsc --login
<paultag> can't do that
<paultag> you'll break the deb
<MTecknology> I guess I'm looking for C10Shell then - just making it happen whether the build fails or not
<MTecknology> paultag: btw- I'm just trying to poke around in there - not expecting the package to end up nice and pretty and usable
<paultag> MTecknology: k
<MTecknology> is the C in there significant? like - if build 'C'rashes then run anything C*?
<MTecknology> I bet if I do a tiny bit of digging I find out :P
<dholbach> good morning!
<c2tarun> dholbach: good morning
<dholbach> hi c2tarun
<c2tarun> dholbach: i mailed you on launchpad yesterday and requested for a classroom session. you checked that ???
<dholbach> c2tarun, I got your email on sunday evening
<c2tarun> ok u thought something about that. something about live fixing of a small bug
<dholbach> c2tarun, and I forwarded it to the packaging training coordinators - we're in the process of setting up a few sessions
<dholbach> so stay tuned
<c2tarun> dholbach: wow...  thanks a lot :)
<ari-tczew> ttx: could you sponsor for me bug 684874 and bug 682898 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 684874 in rabbitmq-server (Ubuntu) "Merge rabbitmq-server 2.2.0-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/684874
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 682898 in gwt (Ubuntu) "Fakesync gwt 1.6.4-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/682898
<ttx> ari-tczew: not right now. I'll have a look in a few days
<ari-tczew> ok
<geser> MTecknology: yes the 'C' does matter, see the explanation for --hookdir in "man pbuilder". From a quick look at the manpage, it seems like you need a "C" hook (like C10shell) and a "B" hook (like B10shell). [the '10' is for ordering of similar hooks and the 'shell' a short description]
<lucas> geser: the local mirror on UDD is out of sync again. I've notified the people in charge.
<micahg> lucas: BTW, thank you for the efforts WRT to the rebuild
<lucas> heh :) you're welcome
 * geser did his 2000th upload
<\sh> moins
<micahg> \sh: greetings, are congratulations in order?
<\sh> micahg: sure :)
<micahg> \sh: well, congratulations :)
<\sh> micahg: thx a lot :)
<\sh> micahg: since this morning it's also official in germany...and now I have a lot of work to do :) changing name etc.
<micahg> \sh: not yours I hope ;)
<\sh> micahg: of course...I'm not "Stephan Hermann" anymore :) I'm now known as "Stephan Adig" :)
 * micahg is confused, 21st century chivalry?
<\sh> micahg: I took the name of my wife :)
<geser> don't forget to change your IRC nick :)
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> \sh: congrats :)
<micahg> \sh: well, in any case, congrats and I'm signing off before I put my foot any further in my mouth :)
<\sh> geser: hmmm...we'll see :)
<\sh> nigelb: thx :)
<nigelb> micahg: Your awake times confuse me awfully most of the time.
<micahg> nigelb: my circadian rhythm feels the same way ;)
<nigelb> lol
<nigelb> Isn't your circadian rhythm more like a circadian rap? :p
<evaluate> Hello
<nigelb> hi
<evaluate> I have submitted a package to debian but it takes awfully long for it to get included (if at all) so I thought I'd also submit it to ubuntu (because that's what I'm using myself).
<nigelb> Do you have a bug number for that?
<nigelb> A debian bug number that is
<evaluate> I have got feedback from the debian-mentors mailing list and the package seems to be fine with the exception of one warning, which isn;t critical though. Now, before I submit it to ubuntu, is there anything else I need to take care of beside bumping the version (from *-1 to *-0ubuntu1) and changing the distro from unstable to maverick?
<evaluate> nigelb, sure, just a second
<dapal> evaluate: is it a NEW package? If yes, it should wait in the NEW queue (given we're frozen, it'll take a while)
<evaluate> dapal, what do you mean with "we're frozen"?
<dapal> we == Debian, sorry
<nigelb> dapal: I think its a patch.
<evaluate> nigelb, ITP #6031318
<nigelb> debian bug 6031318
<ubottu> Error: Debian bug 6031318 could not be found
<nigelb> evaluate: are you sure that number is correct?
<nigelb> dapal: gah, I read wrong, sorry!
<evaluate> dapal, nigelb, it's new. But shouldn't it be allowed to be uploaded to sid regardless of the testing freeze?
<dapal> evaluate: yes, but the ftpteam is busy in catching RC bugs, rather than processing NEW
<dapal> evaluate: even though they sometimes do batch processing
<dapal> (during the Freeze, I mean)
<evaluate> nigelb, this should be it: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=603131
<evaluate> dapal, I understand that, but I find one month for such a small package a little too long...
<nigelb> I saw this on debian-mentors recently
<nigelb> the thing is, really, we'd rather have you maintain this in debian
<dapal> evaluate: DktrKranz is in the ftpteam, ping him ;)
<dapal> evaluate: (or bribe him :D)
<evaluate> I mean, a couple of people have already said that the package is fine, I don't think it would be such a immense effort for it to be uploaded. I find all of this pure bureaucracy...
<nigelb> bribing with network equipment might work :p
<dapal> evaluate: the problem is not "uploading" the package; is someone from the ftpteam steal time from RC hunting and reviewing it :)
<evaluate> nigelb, I would also love to maintain it in debian, but it just seems to take too long...
<nigelb> I think it should unfreeze before ubuntu releases
<dapal> nigelb: I hope so :)
<dapal> latest rumours say before christams
<evaluate> dapal, well, like I said, a couple of people have already reviewed it and they said it's fine...
<dapal> evaluate: maybe they were not DDs? I am, let me check it and eventually upload
<nigelb> there you go, a sponsor :p
<evaluate> dapal, that would be awesome, thank you very much :-)
<geser> evaluate: I don't want to disappoint you but getting a new package into Ubuntu through REVU isn't fast either
<evaluate> dapal, if you want I could link you to the threads on the debian-mentors mailing list...
<dapal> evaluate: nope, I read d-mentors
<evaluate> dapal, ohh, ok.
<evaluate> geser, well, I thought it might be faster than uploading through debian. Also, this step will be necessary anyway, for the package to be synced over from debian to ubuntu, won't it?
<evaluate> dapal, if you would like to sponsor it, please let me know so I make another package so that the debian package is in sync with the upstream (I just did another release a couple of hours ago)
<geser> if the package is in Debian, syncing it over is easy (REVU is only for new package not in Debian)
<evaluate> geser, ohh, I thought it would be the same process, as I saw that I would also need to request a sync for the package to get into ubuntu
<dapal> evaluate: yes, I'll sponsor it. Since you're going to make a new package, would you mind adding a desktop file too?
<dapal> evaluate: i.e. debian/clipit.desktop , to be installed in /usr/share/applications/
<evaluate> dapal, there is a desktop file in the source package already...
<dapal> ah, sorry, missed it :)
<evaluate> dapal, so is it ok like this?
<dapal> wait, compiling :)
<evaluate> sure
<dapal> it looks ok though, let me finish to be sure ;)
<dapal> evaluate: ok, please make a new package, I'll upload it
<evaluate> dapal, sure, I just seem to have a little problem. I added 'Applet indicator' support for it in the latest version and it seems that the package name differs on debian to what it is on ubuntu. On ubuntu I have added 'libappindicator-dev' as dependency, but on debian I can't find this package. Is the debian package named libindicator-dev the same as the ubuntu libappindicator-dev one?
<dapal> evaluate: let me check
<dapal> uhm, nope, they're not the same
<dapal> there's some ongoing work in Debian regarding appindicator, IIRC
<dapal> I'll search on d-mentors
<evaluate> dapal, so should I remove the dependency on libappindicator and let it build without the application indicator support?
<dapal> evaluate: initially, yes. Then you'll need to make a ubuntu merge (-1ubuntu1), re-adding the Build-Depends
<dapal> oh, we have indicator-applet, but not indicator-application
<dapal> weird names :)
<dapal> evaluate: going away, will be back here later today. Would you please send me a mail (dapal@d.o) when you have your package ready? Thanks
<evaluate> dapal, sure, I'll have it ready in the next half hour or so, will ping you on e-mail. Thanks again! :-)
<dapal> evaluate: you're welcome -- if you also need assistance with the ubuntu merge, I can help you (but I'm not a MOTU (yet, planning it), so you need another sponsor)
<dapal> read you later :)
<DktrKranz> evaluate: during freeze, we usually process Debian NEW queue at a slower pace, but we can accept a package anytime (and I'm potentially turning into a drunk man given how many beers people owe me already :P)
<evaluate> DktrKranz, well, like I said, I can understand that things are going at a slower pace, but it just seemed a bit long for me (maybe I'm just not used to the debian pace... :-)
<evaluate> anyway, the reason I rush this a bit is because I think that getting the package into debian and into ubuntu might get it a larger userbase ans thus faster bug reports...
<DktrKranz> evaluate: btw, which package are we talking about?
<evaluate> DktrKranz, the name is 'clipit'
<evaluate> DktrKranz, dapal already said he would upload it after I repackaged the new upstream version, just so you know if you missed that...
<DktrKranz> ah, not yet in NEW
<DktrKranz> I thought it was already
<geser> evaluate: sponsoring a sync request is much easier as it's mainly checking if the package builds in Ubuntu (you only need to find one sponsor for it and there are enough MOTUs working on the sponsoring queue), for REVU you need to find two MOTUs who ACK your package after looking for packaging errors (similar to debian-mentors) but only a few MOTUs do reviewing on REVU
<evaluate> geser, ok, I get it.
<evaluate> If it gets uploaded to debian It'll hopefully then be easier to get it into ubuntu too
<evaluate> I mean, the only changes it would need, would be the libappindicator ones. Also, I have a PPA in which the package builds just fine, that should also be a proof that it works on ubuntu too...
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: you did an upload of system-tools-backends, but I got ACK of sync previous. ehhh, what's next?
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I don't understand your commenet
<cjwatson> *comment
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: bug 685528
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 685528 in system-tools-backends (Ubuntu) "Sync system-tools-backends 2.10.1-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/685528
<ari-tczew> you did an upload
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: oh, that'll have to be a merge then
<ari-tczew> and my sync has been expired
<ari-tczew> I'm not satisfied
<cjwatson> that's life
<cjwatson> I'm sorry that I didn't happen to spot the sync request, but I don't always read through all recent bug reports on a package before uploading it, particularly when my attention is focused on something entirely different
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: OK, I'll forget about this one. I know that you didn't want do bad.
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: I'd like to discuss with you about merge-o-matic.
<cjwatson> the experimental thing?  right.  I'm not quite sure what would be involved in setting up an entire separate set of pages for that (particularly since the current focus on experimental is largely temporary, and will subside again after the squeeze release).  I think it would be confusing because you'd have to look in two places.  My feeling is that I'd rather use the existing facilities to tell MoM to attempt to merge just ...
<cjwatson> ... certain packages from experimental; that's an override file and I'm happy to add things too do
<cjwatson> er, *things to it
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: hmm, that's not I expected directly
<ari-tczew> :(
<ari-tczew> bdrung: FYI, I gave comment for Kmos unban request.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you comment doesn't help much
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: I don't think so that people will must have a look into 2 places. Just last time I have to merge one package with experimental to resolve DEPWAIT and I had to create patches manually. If DEPWAIT wouldn't exist, propably I never would look on merge this package with experimental
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I know, nothing help much
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I don't generally think that people should merge from experimental unless there's a specific reason to do so
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: from my point of view, now Debian is frozen. some packages have been upgraded to new upstream release and uploaded to experimental. If contributors want to get some new upstream releases, then can go with experimental.
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: not all of experimental follows that though
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I don't want to encourage people to upload things to Ubuntu which from Debian's point of view are essentially random junk.  They should be inspecting it in more detail
<cjwatson> so I'd rather that they explicitly ask for MoM to follow a package from experimental
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: ok another case. what do you think, parsing binary package under source is necessary/useful?
<cjwatson> can you give me an example?
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: universe: source package chromium-browser, binary: chromium-browser, chromium-browser-dbg, chromium-browser-l10n, chromium-browser-inspector
<cjwatson> you mean the fact that it's listed in the Package field?  I do find that useful for searching sometimes, yes
<cjwatson> I know it's kind of long in a few cases
 * ari-tczew is seeing that today has only bad ideas
<cjwatson> there's a difference between "ideas Colin disagrees with" and "bad ideas". :)
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: ok, if you want to create department for MoM/experimental, would be nice to get a tool which will create merge parcel from experimental, available under command like 'grab-merge XXX experimental'
<cjwatson> out of interest, have you considered using bzr merge-package lp:debian/experimental/XXX?
<cjwatson> (I know it doesn't work for everything)
<ari-tczew> as you said: it doesn't work for everything
<ari-tczew> and I hate merging with bzr
<ari-tczew> it just sucks, if it requires anyway dput
<cjwatson> hm, works well for me
<ari-tczew> Adri2000: are you on merge filezilla?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: whether or not you like UDD, being able to merge locally with UDD means we don't *need* a central MOM for experimental. Although that would be handy if we had a way to mark packages as "should be synced/merged from experimental" (which I've wanted to do in the past)
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: we do, although it needs MoM admin action - file a bug on merge-o-matic if you want a package marked that way
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: does it apply to auto-syncing?
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: no
<cjwatson> that one does still require manual requests
<tumbleweed> most such needs are temporary (either a package is experimenting with something that we want/have, or debian is in freeze)
<mr_pouit> ari-tczew: filezilla was uploaded only yesterday to unstable, so you should really wait...
<Adri2000> ari-tczew: yep, will do it
<ricotz> mr_pouit, hi, i hope you will have some time to look into elementary-icon-theme 2.6 ;)
<Adri2000> ari-tczew: comment added
<hrw> hi
<ari-tczew> mr_pouit: btw, wait for?
<cdbs> ari-tczew: from that sentence, I think that you just merged an XFCE package?
<cdbs> ari-tczew: MOTUs are expected to deal mostly with unseeded packages, its best to leave seeded packages to their devs
<ari-tczew> cdbs: I don't understand what are you talking about
<cdbs> ari-tczew: ah, sorry, my fault
<ari-tczew> :]
<mr_pouit> ari-tczew: you ask Adri2000 about filezilla, but I wrote it has only been uploaded yesterday. So I meant there's no reason to rush (and it's probably better to wait a few days ;)
<mr_pouit> (but well, I'm just speaking, you do what you prefer)
<ari-tczew> mr_pouit: what could give these days?
<ari-tczew> (not in filezilla case, it's explained)
<mr_pouit> (especially in filezilla's case, a rc bug can be reported)
<udienz> hiya all
<udienz> i try to solving #549365
<udienz> !bug #549365
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 549365 in light-themes (Ubuntu) "Terminals have a translucent background" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/549365
<udienz> please reviewing itu
<udienz> i wsih i can help MOTU team
<hrw> bug 686054 reported
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 686054 in plasma-widget-fancytasks (Ubuntu) "crashes plasma with 4.5.80 packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686054
<hrw> ops
<evaluate> hello dapal. I just sent you another mail, not sure what went wrong with the first one...
<dapal> evaluate: got it :)
<dapal> evaluate: can't find 0x521767F1 on keyservers though ;)
<dapal> evaluate: however, I'm getting the mentors package
<evaluate> dapal, hmm, awkward. It should at least be on keyservers.ubuntu.com.
<evaluate> dapal, sudo apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 521767F1
<dapal> apt-key? :p
<dapal> gpg --keyserver ... --recv-keys, better
<dapal> would you mind sending it to pgp.mit.edu and subkeys.pgp.net too? They're commonly used keyservers :)
<evaluate> dapal, ohh. I copied that over from my instructions on how to install my PPA :p
<evaluate> sure, I'm checking that out right now
<evaluate> dapal, it seems that I also had keyserver.pgp.com and pgp.mit.edu in the servers list and I also added subkeys.pgp.net now, as you suggested, thank you!
<dapal> evaluate: np, I'm compiling it again
<evaluate> also, sorry if I'm doing stuff wrong, I'm not really familiar with encryption yet, as I only just started using it when I started packaging my program for debian and ubuntu :-)
<evaluate> dapal, did the decryption work with that key?
<dapal> evaluate: yup :)
<evaluate> awesome :D
<dapal> evaluate: uploaded, thanks for your contribution :)
<dapal> evaluate: feel free to ping me for future uploads
<evaluate> dapal, thank you very, very much
<evaluate> dapal, sure, I also had one more question if you have the time. Would it be wrong to use the debian-mentors mailing list to get reviews of future packages before I send them to you?
<dapal> evaluate: usually, when one gets a "long-term sponsor", it's safe to send the url to the .dsc directly to the sponsor
<dapal> however, it wouldn't be *wrong*
<dapal> it would be unpolite (i.e. wasting other sponsors' time)
<paultag> evaluate: just mark it a RFC not an RFS, unless you want someone else to upload it
<paultag> :)
<dapal> or, yes. :)
<dapal> paultag: +1 :)
<evaluate> dapal, ok, I understand. Like I said, I'm new to this and don't really know how it all works.
<dapal> everyone has been "new to this" (except a couple of people, really), don't hesitate to ask :)
<paultag> +1 dapal :)
<paultag> evaluate: I just started working with Debian upstream, and d-m is actually a really nice place
<evaluate> dapal, should I send an e-mail to the debian-mentors mailing list saying that I found a sponsor?
<dapal> evaluate: I'll do that myself :)
<evaluate> dapal, ok, thank you very much :-)
<evaluate> paultag, yeah, people are really nice and helpful, the only "bad" experience I had with it is that it's a bit slow for my taste, but that's probably because of the current freeze status...
<dapal> evaluate: that's the reason, yes. Most people are busy catching RC bugs
<dapal> evaluate: other people, who aren't able to do any more RC bugs (like me :D), will sponsor things ;)
<paultag> evaluate: true, true
<paultag> I've taken a shine to starting to review, it's quite fun
<evaluate> do you have experience with alioth.debian.org? I'm curios because I have submited a new project to host the debian/* files of clipit there and I didn't get an answer yet (I submited it on 30.11 so it's around a week), is it normal to take this long?
<dapal> evaluate: why would you need a new project?
<dapal> evaluate: you'd just need to ask membership for collab-maint ; http://wiki.debian.org/Alioth/PackagingProject
<evaluate> dapal, well, I don't know. This is how I did on sourceforge, I thought that would also be the way to go on alioth (I couldn't find much info on how alioth actually works...)
<dapal> evaluate: (despite of the name, you can use it even if you're the only maintainer)
<dapal> evaluate: now you know :) -- ask for membership to the collab-maint project, and say that you want to maintain your debian/ there (maybe also say that's it's currently NEW)
<dapal> evaluate: a new project usually takes longer than just membership to an existing one
<evaluate> dapal, ok, got it, thank you!
<dapal> the former depends on alioth admins, the alioth on collab-maint's admins, who should be quicker :)
<paultag> evaluate: oh, are you the one working on clipit?
<evaluate> paultag, yes, why?
<paultag> evaluate: I've been reading your mail and looking at your work
<paultag> evaluate: great job :)
<evaluate> ohh, thank you very much!
<paultag> I remember people by their packages, not by name, sorry :)
<paultag> whoh
<paultag> that came out way wrong
<paultag> /clear
<evaluate> hmm, it seems I hve been added to the collab-maint project (although I didn't get any notification about it). Does collab-maint only use SVN?
<paultag> evaluate: narp. I'm using git on my projects
<evaluate> hmm, I can only see SVN listed on the project page... too bad there's barely any information out there on how to use alioth...
<paultag> +1
<paultag> Well, shucks. It's coffee time. BBL
<paultag> evaluate: well met, keep up the great work
<evaluate> paultag, thanks! see you around :-)
<evaluate> guess I'll go over to oftc.net's #alioth, hopefully they have some useful links
<hrw> does someone know is it possible to APT pin hosts not only releases/packages?
<micahg> hrw: yes, o=foo
<hrw> micahg: o=Ubuntu in both
<micahg> hrw: no, o= is for the host
<micahg> or rather site
<micahg> err..repository :-/
<hrw> micahg: http://pastebin.com/kd68CUzU
<micahg> hrw: ok, what are you trying to do?
<hrw> micahg: set ports.ubuntu.com as lowest priority so apt will fetch arch=all from de.archive.ubuntu.com
<micahg> errr..apt's not set up for that AFAIK
<micahg> hrw: oops, yes, you can :)
<hrw> o=host?
<hrw> will have to try
<micahg> hrw: try this in /etc/apt/preferences, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/540421/
<hrw> nope
<micahg> hrw: yeah, I think pinning is just for versions
<james_w> put the site you prefer first in the list
<james_w> if the site you prefer is dependent on the package that is being fetched then you are SOL I think
<hrw> works
<hrw> added main with pri 999 and then ports with pri 50
<hrw> thanks
<hrw> no more waiting for 100MB of files from slow ports.ubuntu.com when they are on fast link to mirrorred archive
<ari-tczew> lucas: could you check whether UDD merges works fine?
<lucas> ari-tczew: they were (as geser already noticed). the problem was a mirroring problem to UDD, which is fixed now, so the data should be refreshed very soon now
<lucas> (I'm doing a manual sync)
<ari-tczew> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-07
<micahg> bdrung: was I unclear about python-pyproj in my comment?
<bdrung> micahg: not to me, but to the others.
<micahg> bdrung: ok, thanks, just needed the sanity check :)
<bdrung> micahg: i gave the ack because he uploaded a newer version (which wasn't necessary)
<micahg> bdrung: no, I know why you did what you did :), I would've done it if you didn't
<porthose> ScottK, ping Is this what you needed for bug #676360?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 676360 in maverick-backports "Please backport Viridian" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/676360
<dholbach> good morning!
<ScottK> porthose: It was.  That's why I'd said it was approved and marked it in progress.
<ari-tczew> debfx: how is progress of moodle merge?
<kklimonda> ScottK: we got a new gtkmm uploaded at last, I'll try to prepare a gtkglextmm update tonight and we can rebuild python-visual then
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: have you looked on python-django
<ari-tczew> ?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: no, sorry - I've been sick last week and didn't remember about it (try sending me an email if I don't respond on IRC :) )
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: from the debian changelog it looks like we can sync 1.2.3-2
<kklimonda> (the best way to see if it builds on ubuntu buildd is to upload it to the ppa - I still can't configure local pbuilder to disable internet connection)
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: I'll have a look.
<geser> kklimonda: I've a patched pbuilder to use stgraber's "sandbox" to disable net access during package build
<kklimonda> geser: can you put a patch somewhere? I've tried to use iptables as suggested here but for some reason it doesn't work :)
<kklimonda> (it does block *something* just not what it's supposed to block)
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: I don't want to be hectic and insolent/impatient, but I'd like to write test SRU g-s-d on your todo list. (:
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: sorry, I'm swamped with work and trying to catch up. Give me few days and if I don't reply just poke me again with a larger stick ;)
<kklimonda> I can probably launch 10.04 vm right now
<kklimonda> if I have enough ram.. mhm
<kklimonda> hmm
<kklimonda> nope
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: okok
<kklimonda> where did my ram go :/
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: maybe on a sled?
<kklimonda> heh, most of it is stuck in the XP vm I have running but it doesn't explain why I only have ~450 free..
<kklimonda> (most == 1GB)
<kklimonda> oh, nm-applet is leaking over 600MB
<kklimonda> compiz 350..
<kklimonda> and unity-panel-service 240
<kklimonda> it wasn't a wise decision to update so early after all :/
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: do you running any server services?
<kklimonda> no, it's an almost clean natty install
<frewsxcv> mencoder + mplayer was moved from multiverse to universe in maverick. is there any reason why mplayer-gnome is still in multiverse?
<yofel> I'll second that question for smplayer
<micahg> I can probably review those tonight if no one gets to them before that
<frewsxcv> micahg: thanks
<pting> i added some patches to debian/patches and appended the filenames into debian/patches/series. what command do i run to ensure these new patches are applied? are they automatically applied when running debuild?
<Rhonda> If there already was a series file you can assume that they will get automatically applied, yes.
<gilir> frewsxcv, already reported : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-mplayer/+bug/675167 , waiting admin archive feedback :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 675167 in gnome-mplayer (Ubuntu) "Please promote gnome-mplayer to universe" [Undecided,New]
<highvoltage> it's always such a relief to see one of my packages being accepted
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-08
<ScottK> kklimonda: Sounds great.
<ScottK> kklimonda: Thanks for sticking with it.
<udienz> hello, i want to ask about patching
<udienz> sorry for my bad english
<udienz> someone report bug and he attached patch
<udienz> can i apply his patch and submitting to ubuntu-motu?
<micahcowan> For vte: I'm a little confused as to whether I ought to branch, modify, then propose a merge against the branch mentioned by "apt-get source", or the appropriate-looking one from the "code" tab of the Ubuntu package's page.
<micahcowan> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/vte/ubuntu/   and   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/vte/ubuntu/   respectively.
<micahcowan> They are not branches of the same code (apparently?), as they have no common ancestors, so can't be merged.
<ebroder> micahcowan: If apt-get source mentions a branch, it's generally better to submit patches against that, with the caveat that sometimes the branch mentioned by apt-get source is a Debian branch, not an Ubuntu branch, in which case it's probably not better
<ebroder> Or, more succinctly, "it's complicated"
<micahcowan> (oops, that second one ought to have been: lp:ubuntu/vte
<ebroder> The lp:ubuntu/foo branches are frequently (although not universally) automatically generated, so if it looks like there's an alternative branch maintained by Ubuntu folks, that's probably better
<micahcowan> ebrpder. is this sort of thing documented anywhere?
<ebroder> micahcowan: Not that I know of
<dholbach> good morning!
<micahg> \sh: zf is backported in the zf ppa, I'll try for an official maverick backport this weekend
<\sh> micahg: thx a lot :)
<micahg> \sh: np
<geser> kklimonda: grab http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~stgraber/%2Bjunk/sandbox/annotate/head%3A/sandbox-raw-nonetwork.c, compile it and modify line 128 of /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-buildpackage to 'echo "$DPKG_COMMANDLINE" | /usr/local/bin/sandbox-raw-nonetwork $CHROOTEXEC $SUTOUSER' (adapt the path to sandbox-raw-nonetwork as necessary)
<geser> that gives you a pbuilder which builds the package with no network (package download and hooks still have net access)
<kklimonda> geser: ok, thanks
<kklimonda> yay, I'm two uploads from fixing python-visual FTBFS.. it took me a month to get here..
<geser> I hope the python2.7 plans don't interfere with your progress
<kklimonda> that's why I have to upload it fast so it doesn't affect me! ;)
<kklimonda> the package builds fine for both 2.6 and 2.7 - the ftbfs wasn't related to python
<ScottK> kklimonda: I think the work you are doing will also fix python-hildon.
<kklimonda> ScottK: no, but the fix for python-hildon looks pretty straighforward - as I'm pretty much done with python-visual (all that's left is to upload new gtkglextmm and rebuild python-visual) I can fix it
<ScottK> kklimonda: OK.  Cool.
<kklimonda> ScottK: ugh, are we actually interested in supporting Hildon in Ubuntu? python-hildon looks mostly unmaintained at the upstream.
<kklimonda> the last version I can find is 0.9.0 released over a year ago
<ScottK> kklimonda: If it's in the archive it should build.  I don't care if it's removed or fixed.
<kklimonda> ok, I'll ask mvo (update-manager-hildon is the only reverse dependency) about it
<kklimonda> ScottK: mvo has said that he's going to "kill [update-manager-hildon]" so I'll subscribe ubuntu-archive to bug 687353 after it's gone
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 687353 in python-hildon (Ubuntu) "remove python-hildon from archive" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687353
<ScottK> kklimonda: Great.
<ScottK> kklimonda: python-visual just needs a retry?
<ScottK> Done in any case.
<ScottK> kklimonda: Thanks for all your work on this.
<kklimonda> ScottK: I think it's too soon as gtkglextmm is still building - I've unassigned myself as doko is working on it.
<kklimonda> but yes, python-visual just needs a retry when gtkglextmm is published :)
<ScottK> kklimonda: It'll be some time before it gets done since the builders are all very busy.
<ScottK> If it hits too soon, I'll retry it again.
<kklimonda> ScottK: yes, I've noticed - especially the powerpc one is swamped with jobs :)
<ScottK> Yes, but even i386 and amd64 are very behind at the moment.
<kklimonda> oh, there are even two - but still it's not enough and they have a 40hrs+ queue
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> powerpc builds ~as fast as amd64, but there are more amd64 builders now, so powerpc lags.
<kklimonda> oh? powerpc is that fast?
<kklimonda> I've always assumed that it's also slower than i386 and amd64 - not as much as armel but still
<achiang> argh. debuild keeps auto-creating a patch called debian-changes-... ; i don't know how to prevent that from happening. any clues?
<achiang> "This patch has been created by dpkg-source during the package build."...
<kklimonda> achiang: it happens when you modify source in place
<coolbhavi> achiang, thats created by 3.0 format
<coolbhavi> source format*
<achiang> kklimonda: i am modifying a package the desktop-team way, by branching their ubuntu branch with bzr. maybe that has something to do with it
<achiang> for the "in-place" thing
<kklimonda> achiang: I can't really tell why have this happened to you, when I get debian-changes-... it's because I've somehow edited the source files directly as opposed to creating patches
<kklimonda> achiang: I'd suggest checking content of this file to see what's going on
<achiang> kklimonda: yeah. i was actually editing a patch in place. ;)
<achiang> kklimonda: thanks, i'll go do that
<Rhonda> kklimonda: no, powerpc isn't slow. :)
<Rhonda> â¦ otherwise I would kill myself packaging wesnoth on it
<kklimonda> ah, good wesnoth - I remember it using all my ram and swap few years back, during one of my affairs with Gentoo.
<Rhonda> Sure it was wesnoth and not the background emerge of your gentoo system? ;)
<kklimonda> well, it may have been my highly tuned compiler flags that were the real culprit ;)
<mhall119> what's the changelog line for closing a needs-packaging bug?
<kklimonda> mhall119: * Initial release. (LP: #XXXXXXX) is fine
<Rhonda> Usually: Initial upload (LP: #1234)  (or closes: if it was for Debian)
<Rhonda> Actually dh_make should put that into your changelog already.
<mhall119>   * Add watch file and closes bug #687431 (LP: #687431)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 687431 in xdg-launcher "[needs-packaging] xdg-launcher" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687431
<mhall119> will that do?
<mhall119> it did, but I wasn't ready to close it in the first iteration
 * mhall119 is still a packing noob
<Rhonda> mhall119: A bit of double information. "Add watch file (LP: #687431)" is enough. :)
<mhall119> ok
<Rhonda> â¦ if adding the watchfile is the bug.
<mhall119> no, the bug is the needs-packaging bug
<Rhonda> The bug though is rather about needs-packaging, not about a missing watchfile in the package.
<mhall119> but the last change i made to this package was adding the watch file
<Rhonda> Yes, then two lines. One with " * Initial upload (LP: #687431)" and one with " * Add watchfile"
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119>   * Initial upload (LP: #687431)
<mhall119>   * Add watch file
<Rhonda> Actually the "Add watchfile" could be considered of part of the initial upload packaging efforts, so it's not a "change" per se.
<mhall119> liek that?
<mhall119> it's a change to the package though
<Rhonda> You would put a add watch file line if it wasn't part of a former upload.
<mhall119> since I built and uploaded to my ppa without the watchfile
 * kklimonda kisses eatmydata - my precious
<mhall119> http://paste.ubuntu.com/541081/ is my current changelog
<mhall119> do I need to put copyright headers on all my python and shell files?
<ScottK> mhall119: Yes, but you needn't consider the PPA history in your debian/changelog for Ubuntu
<mhall119> okay, I was using the same instance for both uploads
<mhall119> is there a prefered template for source code copyright header?
<ScottK> mhall119: It's not absolutely required as long as it's clear what the license is for everything, but it's a best practice to do so.
<ScottK> What license?
<mhall119> GPLv2
<ScottK> GPL provides one.
<mhall119> thanks, found it
<mhall119> is there a way to turn my current packaging directory into a proper bzr package branch?
<mhall119> woot! no lintian complaints http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/xdg-launcher
<ScottK> Not everyone is convinced we've figured out what a proper bzr packaging branch is.
<mhall119> ah, ok
<mhall119> anywhere I learn what the general setup should be like? or do I just bzr init the folder I'm using to build?
<ScottK> Most people I know of just put /debian in bzr for packaging.
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> what's the command to download and unpackage the upstream .tar.gz?
<mhall119> from the watch file
<ebroder> barry: Wait, how were you getting it to use the i386 chroot before?
<mhall119> or does dbuild do that if it doesn't see a local copy?
<ScottK> mhall119: uscan
<mhall119> what regex format does uscan use?
<Rhonda> perl
<Rhonda> mhall119: file $(which uscan)  # :)
<mhall119> heh
<tillux> Hi there - I'd like to upload a package to my PPA, but I need to specify certain ./configure options/parameters but I don't know how to do that, I'd be glad if someone could point out to me where to start or what to do ;)
<mhall119> okay, got uscan working
<mhall119> I have get-orig-source: uscan --force-download --repack --rename --destdir .
<mhall119> in my debian/rules
<mhall119> how to I call that?
<micahcowan> tillux, wouldn't that sort of thing go into the source package's debian/rules ?
<micahcowan> mhall119, "debian/rules get-orig-source", probably?
<mhall119> I assume I somehow tell debuild to run get-orig-source
<tumbleweed> mhall119: get-orig-source is outside debuild's world, if you  are packaging in bzr, bzr bd knows to run get-orig-source
<tillux> micahcowan: if you tell me so, probably, yes ;)
<micahcowan> tillux, have you built a binary package from a source package before?
<tillux> yes
<micahcowan> Okay, so yeah, just modify your debian/rules to add the ./configure options, and then package the binary, and upload that.
<mhall119> thanks tumbleweed, now I have other errors though
<mhall119> fixed em
<tumbleweed> mhall119: good :) (btw, #ubuntu-packaging is probably a better place for packaging questions)
<tumbleweed> err, for "lots of help with packaging" a quick question is obviously fine here
 * micahcowan didn't know about #ubuntu-packaging
<mhall119> I didn't know about it either, thanks
<mhall119> can someone point me to where I can learn about submitting packages to Debian?
<micahcowan> mhall119, completely new package, or new version of an existing package?
<mhall119> completely new
<micahcowan> Not really up on the details but search for info about ITP ("intent to package") bugs.
<mhall119> ok, thanks
<tumbleweed> mhall119: http://www.za.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/
<udienz> mhall119: submit your package to mentors.debian.net
<tillux> what is the procedure for updating/submitting a new version of an existing pacakge to debian and then requesting a sync to ubuntu (with patches, at least it was like that for an older version of that package)?
<tumbleweed> tillux: for the new version in debian, contact the debian maintainer of the package
<tumbleweed> if possible get debian to include those patches, so it *can* be synced
<tillux> They might already be included, didn't check the latest version in debian. The main problem is that the package (denemo) is currently evolving quite quickly (which is why I also want to add git-weekly-(or so) builds to my launchpad ppa...)
<tumbleweed> launchpad can do daily PPA builds for you
<tillux> tumbleweed: I didn't know that, is there some kind of instructional page somwhere?
<tumbleweed> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds
<kklimonda> bummers, how to create a sid chroot in pbuilder?
<kklimonda> I get "E: Release signed by unknown key" and can't remember the fix for it
<micahg> kklimonda: specify the keyring as an argument?
<tumbleweed> kklimonda: install debian-archive-keyring and pass an appropriate --keyring option to debootstrap
<tumbleweed> (pbuilder-dist knows what to do)
<kklimonda> ok, thanks
<micahg> you also need the natty keyring
<micahg> *debian-archvie-keyring from natty
<kklimonda> hmm.. I don't use pbuilder-dist for some reason..
<kklimonda> and it was a good reason but I can't remember it
<kklimonda> I guess I'll just start using it again until I hit some problem
<tumbleweed> I don't either, but I'm also thinking I should :) (once I get it to support mirrors)
 * micahg needs to get pbuilder-dist to recognize -updates, -proposed, -security, and -backports
<tumbleweed> err yeah that too
<tumbleweed> I currently handle that via a pbuilder hook
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-09
<highvoltage> what should the incoming directory in dput be for uploading to Ubuntu?
<highvoltage> (I'm uploading from a Debian machine so if I just use dput it would upload to debian)
<lifeless> I'm moderately sure dput knows about ubuntu upstream
<highvoltage> lifeless: heh, indeed!
<c2tarun> yesterday i was talking with an admin of bug-squad. he told me that, for fixing errors developers use the triage information and release patch, then review team verifies the patch and send it to upstream if its correct. What i m not getting is what is the role of MOTU in this whole process??
<c2tarun> sorry if my english is bit rude :(
<micahg> c2tarun: MOTU is supposed to take care of the universe subset of packages at the moment which includes, syncs, merges, security fixes, and bug fixes
<MTecknology> hm.. How can I find out what package provides ndk.h?
<micahg> MTecknology: apt-file search?
<Rhonda> MTecknology: http://packages.ubuntu.com/ and the "Search the contents of packages" form
 * Rhonda . o O ( doesn't seem to be part of maverick )
<Flannel> If it's in your filesystem already, dpkg -S /path/to/file
<MTecknology> it's not on the system and I'm not finding it on packages.ubuntu.com
<ebroder> Are you sure it exists? :)
<MTecknology> ya, but I'm not so sure any package provides it..
<micahg> not in maverick
<Rhonda> Neither in natty
<Flannel> I don't see it on the internet, what's it for?
<MTecknology> an nginx module
<micahg> not in any suite
<micahg> *series
<MTecknology> I see where it is.....
<MTecknology> https://github.com/simpl-it/ngx_devel_kit
<Flannel> https://github.com/simpl-it/ngx_devel_kit
<Flannel> yeah
<MTecknology> Flannel: you found it the same time? :P
<Flannel> I also found a networking one on SF, but it seemed extremely immature
<dholbach> good morning!
<MTecknology> Rejected: Unhandled exception processing upload: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'md5'   .... :S
<MTecknology> dholbach: howdy
<dholbach> hi MTecknology
<MTecknology> I've never seen a package rejected from LP for that reason.
<geser> MTecknology: bug 687662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 687662 in Soyuz "Upload processor attempts to verify hashes against expired files" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687662
 * ari-tczew noticed a trend to applying for core-dev team.
<kim0> Hi folks ... why is the --debug option refused in:  pbuilder --debug --build --basetgz natty-base.tgz bacula*.dsc
<ScottK> kim0: Did you try it --build --debug?
<kim0> ScottK: I'm very new to all of this
<kim0> ScottK: I tried  pbuilder --build --basetgz natty-base.tgz --debug  bacula*.dsc
<kim0> ScottK: and it finished compiling
<ScottK> IIRC the build option has to come first.
<kim0> ScottK: I want to find the boken build dir
<kim0> so I can fix it .. and try building again
<kim0> I guess that's gonna be hard .. since i'm on maverick and building for natty .. which is failing
<ScottK> Probably the shortest path to what you want ( --debug isn't it) is do pbuilder --login and then do your build in the chroot directly.
<tumbleweed> or use the C10shell example hookscript
<kim0> ScottK: I love --login .. didn't know I could do that
<kim0> ScottK: I'm in the chrooot ... how do I start the build process ?
<ScottK> kim0: dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc
<ScottK> (from in the package directory
<ScottK> )
<ScottK> kim0: Also be sure to copy anything you need to save out of the chroot before exiting because it will be deleted.
<kim0> ScottK: can I use pbuilder inside the chroot too ?
<ScottK> (the pbuilder chroots live in /var/cache/pbuilder/build)
<ScottK> Not reallyl.
<kim0> I mean .. how will it get build time deps
<ScottK> apt-get build-dep packagename
<ScottK> or apt-get install ....
 * Rhonda usually does "cowbuilder --login --basepath ./$dist --bindmounts `pwd`/subdir"
<Rhonda> and even then in there do a "useradd $LOGIN; chown $LOGIN /home/$LOGIN; su - $LOGIN; cd â¦; debuild" :)
<ScottK> That too
<Rhonda> That way I don't have to copy anything away because the source is not directly extracted in subdir but in subdir/$package-$version
<Rhonda> And when something breaks I don't have to totally start from scratch. ;)
<Rhonda> â¦ and can use the tools from outside still because of the bindmount
<artfwo> hello! would anyone like to review/sponsor a debdiff for bug 688096?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 688096 in revelation (Ubuntu) "revelation 0.4.11-8ubuntu2 FTBFS" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688096
<artfwo> uh, looks like coolbhavi have noticed it just before I announced :)
<coolbhavi> artfwo, yes
<coolbhavi> :)
<ari-tczew> what a quick response! don't you think?
<artfwo> i'm still thinking how he managed to respond before I asked :)
<artfwo> I used to ask for a patch review and wait for a couple of days or so...
<coolbhavi> artfwo, maybe i saw the request as you typed here :)
<artfwo> :)
<artfwo> do you keep a hidden camera in my house then?
<coolbhavi> artfwo, nopes
<artfwo> then I give up
<Laney> DktrKranz: can you please process mono in NEW? thanks
<ScottK> kklimonda: Thanks again for all your work leading up to being able to rebuild python-visual.  You made Bug #688142 possible.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 688142 in boost1.40 (Ubuntu) "Please remove boost1.40 source and all binaries from natty" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688142
<kklimonda> ScottK: great :)
<DktrKranz> Laney: is there an ACK from Release Team?
<Laney> DktrKranz: afaik yes, I think from aba
<Laney> you might want to confirm with him
<DktrKranz> ok, looking into RT mailbox
<kklimonda> Laney: you are working (or planning to work) on glom and goocanvasmm?
<kklimonda> are you*
<Laney> pochu asked me about that today
<Laney> yes
<Laney> but you can if you want, don't block on me
<kklimonda> Laney: I was planning on taking a look at it this weekend
<DktrKranz> mh, can't find anything, I'll ask on IRC
<kim0> Hi .. I need some help please
<kim0> I'm trying to fix a FTBFS with bacula .. I know I need to put -lssl in the Makefile
<kim0> in LDFLAGS .. problem is .. I only find Makefile.in and not sure where exactly to use those flags (-lssl)
<ScottK> kim0: What I normally do for this is find anyother library it links to already and then grep for where that one gets set.
<ScottK> There isn't a one size fits all solution since packages ~all do it differently.
<kim0> ScottK: hmm .. what files do I grep :)
<ScottK> Any that are involved in the build system.
<ScottK> As long as your target is suitably rare it doesn't matter so much not to search overly broadly.
<geser> kim0: LDFLAGS won't anymore with ld --as-needed
<RoAkSoAx> kim0: /win 15
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<RoAkSoAx> sorry
<kim0> :)
<kim0> I'm not your irssi
<kim0> heheee
<kim0> ScottK: I think I fixed the bug .. I want to test with pbuilder
<kim0> ScottK: it ignore the untarred dir .. and seems to re-untar fresh
<ScottK> It does
<kim0> how do I inject my patch
<kim0> ScottK: ^ :)
<ScottK> kim0: Sorry, I'm a bit tied up with some other things right now.  Hopefully someone else can help.
<kim0> ScottK: thanks a lot for all the help
<ScottK> You're welcome and good luck
<RoAkSoAx> kim0: first, if the package already has a patchsystem in use, use it to apply your patch. Otherwise, patch the source directly
<kim0> RoAkSoAx: the package has a .diff.gz file with it
<RoAkSoAx> kim0: take a look at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems :) It explains how to use the patchsystems, it is very helpul :)
<kim0> RoAkSoAx: it says "unknown patch system"
<RoAkSoAx> kim0: bacula right?
<kim0> yes
<kim0> RoAkSoAx: do I bzr branch it ?
<RoAkSoAx> kim0: take a look in debian/rules, and go to patch-stamp... apparently they are patching the source directly when building the package right there. so might gonna have to do something similar.
<RoAkSoAx> kim0: you can either branch it, apply your patch and ask for a merge. Or grab the source, patch it, provide a debdiff
<kim0> RoAkSoAx: I'd rather branch it, coz I know more about that
<kim0> RoAkSoAx: BUT .. I wanna test it with  my patch
<kim0> RoAkSoAx: I don't know how to tell pbuilder to use my modified copy
<kim0> nvm .. I'm gonna branch/ask-for-merge
<ari-tczew> I have to filter one http link, but it's not related to packaging. how can I use "uscan" to get output from http/ftp link?
<RoAkSoAx> kim0: In your branch, do 'bzr bd -S' and it should create an *.dsc file, which you should use to build in pbuilder
<kim0> trying that
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-10
<dholbach> good morning!
<cdbs> tumbleweed: :o Thanks for the guidance, I will take care of it from the next time onwards, when I will work on python packages
<tumbleweed> cdbs: no problem, your changes weren't actually harmful, just non-optimal :)
<cdbs> tumbleweed: yeah :) Its nice to see uploads tricling into your system when using a development release
<cdbs> *trickling
<udienz> cdbs: thanks for reviewing my merge. i'll try to fix it
<cdbs> good
<udienz> cdbs: already fix
<cdbs> done? /me looks again
<cdbs> udienz: I would highly recommend you to forward that diff to Debian
<udienz> done :) sukron
<udienz> cdbs: forwarding with submittodebian tool?
<cdbs> udienz: If you forwarded manually, its fine
<udienz> cdbs: ok, i'll submitting to debian now
<udienz> cdbs: done submitting to debian
<cdbs> udienz: BTW, is signalled already in the list?
<udienz> cdbs: yes, signalled. but not signaled
<cdbs> udienz: oh, then it looks good from my end, except:
<cdbs> in debian/changelog its mentioned that you '+ give Ubuntu MOTU to maintainer' and 'Give Brian Nelson to XSBC-Original-Maintainer'
<cdbs> There's no need to mention that in two lines, remove those and add instead:
<cdbs> + Set Maintainer: field according to DebianMaintainerField spec.
<cdbs> '+ error to download upstream tarball' should become '+ Correct URL to fix downloading of upstream tarball'
<cdbs> udienz: ^
<cdbs> '+ per Debian Policy, put version number to 3.9.1 ' should become '+ Bump Standards-Version to 3.9.1'
<cdbs> then it would be fine
<udienz> cdbs: done, can i push it again?
<cdbs> udienz: yes, please :)
<udienz> Pushed up to revision 13.
<udienz> cdbs: done pushed
 * cdbs looks again
<cdbs> udienz: approved
<udienz> thanks Bilal
<cdbs> udienz: request another review on the ubuntu-sponsors team, since I can't upload to main
<udienz> cdbs: sorry, who can send my request?
<cdbs> udienz: Click the 'Request another review' link there on that page and then enter ubuntu-sponsors
<udienz> cdbs: okay, done. Ubuntu Sponsors Team has been added
<cdbs> udienz: good, and thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu!
<udienz> cdbs: :D thanks for reviewing. i hope i can help Ubuntu again
<udienz> btw, i have another proposed merge
<udienz> https://code.launchpad.net/~udienz/ubuntu/maverick/light-themes/light-themes.fix549365/+merge/42840
<udienz> https://code.launchpad.net/~udienz/ubuntu-docs/natty-ubuntu-docs.fix677998/+merge/42857
<udienz> and i need review from ubuntu-sponsors
<evaluate> hello
<evaluate> does anyone have a link to the sf logos?
<evaluate> I've been searching for them for 15 minutes and can't find the link anywhere...
<zul>  /msg Daviey funny i dont remember us saying we should do cobbler
<Daviey> zul: funny, how /msg with a space infront fails aswell :)
<zul> frig
<kim0> I think I've fixed 687968 (Bacula FTBFS). I've proposed for merge (my first time ever) would someone like to pick it up :)
<c2tarun> bug 687968
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 687968 in bacula (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] package 'bacula' (5.0.2-2ubuntu1) failed to build on natty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687968
<c2tarun> kim0: i think you should tell this in #ubuntu-bugs someone from review team will check it.
<kim0> okie
<vish> c2tarun: kim0 is right, this is a better place or #ubuntu-devel (but not in -bugs)
<c2tarun> vish: sorry i mostly saw u in bugs and u said that u are in review team, so i suggested him :x
<c2tarun> :|
<vish> c2tarun: np.. :)
<c2tarun> if i find some application on net and it is good but not in ubuntu repositories, who should i ask for its addition into repositories
<vish> c2tarun: you need to file a needs packaging bug
<c2tarun> vish: ok...
<vish> c2tarun: check if one already exists : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
<c2tarun> vish: sure
<hakermania> Hello everybody.
<udienz> Riddell: thanks for your comment at Revu
<hakermania> udienz: what's your upload's name ?
<udienz> hakermania: udienz
<udienz> hakermania: are you MOTU?
<hakermania> wish to be :P
<hakermania> no
<hakermania> I have uploaded wallch in REVU, that's why I asked.
<hakermania> xD
<udienz> hakermania: hm.. same like me, i;m interest at Ubuntu-MOTU
<udienz> ah.. i forget now.. you have problems uploading to revu
<hakermania> udienz: I solved them :)
<udienz> hakermania: so, how to solved it?
<hakermania> udienz: At first I used 'dput revu *changes' but next you have to use 'dput -f revu *changes' (If this was my problem :P). Btw I can't find your upload :/
<udienz> hakermania: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8733
<hakermania> udienz: There are some Warnings/Notices as I can see... Do you want help to solve them?
<udienz> yes why not
<udienz> hakermania: this is your package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch
<hakermania> yep
<hakermania> if you want you can see my debian/control file to fix yours. It is at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/wallch-1012091930/wallch-1.0/debian/control
<udienz> hakermania: ok, but ubuntu-devel-discuss is for main
<udienz> why you don't use Ubuntu MOTU?
<cdbs> udienz: ubuntu-devel-discuss is for both nowadays
<cdbs> that was the old rule
<cdbs> that devel-discuss would be for main and motu for universe
<cdbs> but now onwards, all packages are using ubuntu-devel-discuss
<hakermania> Ok, I don;t think that it's a big deal.
<udienz> cdbs: owh.. thanks
<hakermania> You must change the Maintainer field with Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
<udienz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<hakermania> exactly:Otherwise, the Maintainer field will be set to UbuntuÂ DevelopersÂ <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com> If the Maintainer field is modified, the old value will be saved in a field named XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<G__81> whats the channel for unity ?
<udienz> hakermania: well my last upload has unsuccessfull
<hakermania> udienz: Ok, now change the maintainer to ubuntu-devel bla bla and make a new field named XSBC-Original-Maintainer: with your real name and eail address
<hakermania> email*
<udienz> hakermania: okay
<udienz> hakermania: do you know mailing list to discussing packaging? maybe like debian-mentors
<hakermania> No, I don't/
<udienz> hakermania: do you have sponsors or mentors?
<hakermania> No, omg I'm 16 --_--
<udienz> hm.. i dont have mentors now, maybe we can try it :D
<udienz> hm.. no problem, if you know cdbs or bilal Akhtar, he is 16 too
<hakermania> udienz: No, I don't,  Ok, now change debian/changelog from unstable to natty
<udienz> hakermania: hm.. but my package has been uploaded now
<hakermania> Uploaded and accepted?
<udienz> hakermania: yup, sponsored by Riddell
<hakermania> When why did you accepted the invitation for help? :P
<udienz> :) i open for all help
<udienz> hakermania: i got error when checking your packages
<udienz> wallch source: source-contains-prebuilt-binary wallch
<hakermania> udienz: it's true that I have a little problem with the binary... But I'll solve it... Or you can help me solve it. !
<udienz> try to remove .pc/ directory at source
<hakermania> udienz:did this worked for you?
<Riddell> kim0: about https://code.launchpad.net/~kim0/ubuntu/natty/bacula/ftbfs-fix/+merge/43327 shouldn't that be a patch?
<\sh> guys, anyone how knows ruby a bit more then I do? is it possible to pass a ruby variable to %x{}?
<Riddell> apachelogger knows ruby, but is more into java these days
<hakermania> \sh:
<hakermania> \sh: #ubuntu-motu not for these issues :)
<ari-tczew> hakermania: \sh asked here because guess that maybe someone from here could help
<ari-tczew> vish: what's for sponsor in bug 15495 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 15495 in One Hundred Paper Cuts ""Archive Manager" doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an "archive" is" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15495
<\sh> hakermania: well, actually it's ubuntu related, as we are pushing puppet to the cloud world ;)
<udienz> hakermania: it works well
<udienz> ari-tczew, \sh: agreed
<vish> ari-tczew: the patch there "update with the suggested changes" , i'm assuming it has the changes.. i havent test it though..
<ari-tczew> vish: and this is not adjusted for ubuntu (debdiff)
<hakermania> udienz: Well, there is something unsolved days now... (W: wallch: desktop-command-not-in-package) But it is quite mad. If you check my wallch-1.0.pro file you'll realise that I rename the executable and then place it to /usr/bin/ like the manpages and everything else. I cannot understand why the executable isn't placed where it should. Go private if you want
<vish> ari-tczew: oh!
<ari-tczew> I don't like when someone has subscribed sponsors when there is only a patch (and not tested!)
<vish> ari-tczew: bah! i assumed it was a debdiff! sorry.
<ari-tczew> !debdiff | vish
<ubottu> vish: A simple way to patch Debian/Ubuntu packages is to attach a debdiff to a bug report, or send it to the team which handles the package. Learn more about it from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Debdiff
<vish> ari-tczew: i know what a debdiff is.. :)
<vish> ari-tczew: just assumed this was one too.. ;)
<ari-tczew> vish: I sent a link to you to show how debdiff looks
<vish> ari-tczew: i should have read the patch :/
<ari-tczew> vish: yes
 * vish was doing it at 4am.. but not an excuse..
<ari-tczew> vish: please remember that we're working on clean up SQ and these activites wasting our time
<ari-tczew> (blind subscribing)
<vish> ari-tczew: will do..
<ari-tczew> even Canonical pays for it
<udienz> !debian/dirs| hakermania
<hakermania> udienz: ?
<udienz> try to estting debian/dirs
<udienz> *set
<ari-tczew> udienz: maybe send direct link from wiki.u.c will help :)
<udienz> wait... /me searching at wiki
<hakermania> udienz: my .pro file places fine the other files. 'make install' works just fine, debhelper knows how to install Qt pro files. So, I cannot understand why 'make install' works fine and why debuilding the project doesn't place the bin file in /usr/bin/ (although it does rename it(!))
<udienz> hakermania: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-sourcepkg.html#sC.2.3
<hakermania> udienz: So, create debian/tmp and place there all the files? (manpage, changelog executables) ?
<hakermania> udienz: and consider debian/tmp as being /
<hakermania> ?
<kim0> Riddell: Hi regarding https://code.launchpad.net/~kim0/ubuntu/natty/bacula/ftbfs-fix/+merge/43327 .. You say shouldn't that be a patch
<kim0> Riddell: I'm quite a newbie about packaging .. any hints as to what I should do
<udienz> hakermania: no..  use debian/dirs
<udienz> hakermania: do you want wallch ro /usr/bin/wallch?
<hakermania> udienz: Yes, and my .pro file normally does this!
<udienz> hakermania: just create debain/dirs
<udienz> *debian
<hakermania> udienz: I cannot understand. Create a folder named 'dirs' in debian/ will solve my problem?
<udienz> hakermania: no not folder, but file
<hakermania> udienz: Oh, and what should it contain?
<udienz> i test your package, i can't build it via pbuilder
<udienz> usr/bin
<hakermania> Ok, w8
<udienz> hakermania: btw, i got  "Can't exec "qmake": No such file or directory at /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Dh_Lib.pm line 179" during building
<hakermania> qtcreator is needed for building :)
<udienz> maybe you missing qmake at debian/control
<hakermania> qtcreator includes qmake :)
<udienz> owh i mean qt4-qmake
<hakermania> I think this is included in qtcreator as well!
<udienz> hakermania: well i successfully build your package, but i add some depends
<hakermania> udienz: which?
<udienz> hakermania: http://paste.ubuntu.com/541889/
<hakermania> Aren't qt4-qmake, libqt4-dev included in qtcreator?
<udienz> hakermania, i don't know
<hakermania> udienz: I do :)
<udienz> hakermania: http://paste.ubuntu.com/541891/
<hakermania> udienz: After making the 'dirs' file,  /usr/bin/ directory is created but nothing is placed there! So I got lintian error package-contains-empty-directory usr/bin/
<hakermania> :/
<Riddell> kim0: take the diff and put it into debian/patches
<Riddell> kim0: although that has a messy debian/rules, I can't see how the patches get applied
<kim0> Riddell: Just commented "Bacula does not use a proper patch system. In the diff.gz file there's a lot of direct patching of the source anyway"
<Riddell> messy messy
<Riddell> kim0: ok thanks, I'll commit and upload
<kim0> Riddell: cool .. indeed it's a messy pkg
<hakermania> udienz: Check the new upload: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8760
<hakermania> Does it work?
<kim0> Riddell: not to be pushy :) but you didn't push my bacula patch yet .. It's my first fix, so I'm over excited hehe
<Riddell> kim0: I'm onto it
<kim0> thnx
<hakermania> kim0: what's the bacula patch?
<hakermania> :)
<kim0> hakermania: just a small fix to bacula FTBFS on natty
<hakermania> kim0: Is Riddel a MOTU working on your fix?
<Riddell> kim0: committed and uploaded!
<kim0> Riddell: Yipee thanks man
<Riddell> hakermania: I'm an ubuntu dev reviewing his fix
<hakermania> Riddell: Are you responsible for revu's uploads as well?
<Riddell> hakermania: I can do reviews if wanted
<hakermania> Riddell: So, if I want I can tell you please go and review my project? :)
<kim0> Riddell: shouldn't that merge auto-close this bug 687968 (which I link to the branch)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 687968 in bacula (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] package 'bacula' (5.0.2-2ubuntu1) failed to build on natty" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687968
<Riddell> kim0: looks like it's closed
<Riddell> hakermania: if you want yes
<kim0> ah .. wasn't a moment ago :)
<hakermania> RIddell: Oh, this was quite an unexpected answer for me :) My upload is named 'wallch'. Can you have a look on it, please :)
<hakermania> ?
<boulabiar> hi
<boulabiar> can I find here some help for packaging ?
<hakermania> boulabiar: #ubuntu-packaging
<udienz> hi all, can anyone review bug 687483
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 687483 in aspell-en (Ubuntu) "debian/watch is incorrect, some words missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687483
<udienz> thanks before
<hakermania> Riddell: ?
<Riddell> hakermania: comments added to revu
<hakermania> Riddell: Thanx! I'll try to fix the errors the sooner.
<Riddell> udienz: committed, I'll upload
<Riddell> udienz: please file a bug with debian with your patch
<Riddell> boulabiar: did you get the help you needed?
<boulabiar> no
<boulabiar> no one answered me there
<Riddell> boulabiar: what do you need to know?
<boulabiar> I want to package this https://launchpad.net/ginn
<Riddell> boulabiar: have you asked Duncan McGreggor if it's ready to package?
<boulabiar> he asked me to package it
<boulabiar> to the utouch ppa
<Riddell> groovy
<boulabiar> he is my manager
<Riddell> boulabiar: you don't know where to start or you have a specific problem?
<boulabiar> I prepared some stuff here https://code.launchpad.net/~boulabiar/ginn/ginn-packaging
<boulabiar> I don't know what to do next
<Riddell> boulabiar: looks fine at a glace, does it build?
<boulabiar> configure && make generate the app, but bzr bd don't
<Riddell> jr@wido:~/src/ginn/ginn-packaging>./configure
<Riddell> configure: error: cannot find install-sh, install.sh, or shtool in config-aux "."/config-aux
<Riddell> boulabiar: doesn't work here
<Riddell> boulabiar: you've committed various files into bzr that shouldn't be there and some are missing which should
<Riddell> boulabiar: if I take your debian/ directory and the upstream tar and put them together it builds ok
<udienz> Riddell: i have done submitting to debian via submittodebian tool
<Riddell> udienz: great
<udienz> and thanks
<Riddell> boulabiar: I recommend taking the upstream tar, renaming to ginn_0.2.3.orig.tar.bz2  putting in your debian/ directory, building (with debuild)  fixing until it all works then uploading to revu
<Riddell> then ask me or whoever for a review
<udienz> Riddell: and thanks for reviewing aspell-id package
<boulabiar> will do,
<hakermania> Riddell: All errors fixed except one , thx :)  I cannot understand the error about debian/source/ directory. Debuild errors forced me to place at include-binaries file some sound and executable files' paths. What should I do? orig.tar.gz is created after running 'dh_make -c gpl -s -f ../wallch-1.0.tar.gz', where wallch-1.0.tar.gz is the tarball. So, do I have to include the debian/source/ directory in my source directory before the first compressing?
<udienz> hakermania: try without -f
<udienz> dh_make -c gpl -s
<hakermania> udienz: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8760 As you see on the last comment, there is a problem in /source/include-binaries Will this solve this error or what?
<Riddell> I'd make the .orig.tar.gz by moving the debian/ directory out of the way then running  tar zcf wallch_1.0.orig.tar.gz wallch-1.0
<udienz> hakermania: do you have own branch for this package?
<hakermania> Riddell: i think I'm missing something! The steps I follow are: have the source (including the working makefile, project file, README, COPYING etc etc but NOT the debian/ dir). Then, I compress this source-dir to tar.gz and then I run 'dh_make -c gpl -s -f ../wallch-1.0.tar.gz' .Once the debian/ directory is created I edit the changelog, rules, control files etc. And then run debuild.
<hakermania> udienz: No, it is a simple package from a simple kid. Nothing less nothing more. Democracy :)
<Riddell> hakermania: some of the files are missing from the .orig.tar.gz so you should make it again
<hakermania> Riddell: Which files specifically?
<Riddell> the data/ directory
<Riddell> which is why you have had to add it to debian/source/include-binaries
<hakermania> Riddell: Oh!
<udienz> hakermania: well, debian/dirs is maybe become usr/bin/
<udienz> not /usr/bin/
<hakermania> I will be back in 1 hour 20 minutes. English lesson --_--' Btw I'll try out what you suggested
<hakermania> udienz: Ok
<udienz> Riddell: if you are not busy, can you review my merge at bug 677998
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 677998 in Ubuntu Documentation "openldap-server instructions have a small bug" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677998
<udienz> kirkland already approved this merging
<Riddell> udienz: looking
<Riddell> udienz: done
<udienz> Riddell: thanks!
 * udienz looking for other bugs
<joaopinto> hello
<joaopinto> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libenet.so.1 needed by debian/assaultcube/usr/lib/games/assaultcube/ac_server (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '').
<joaopinto> Note: libraries are not searched in other binary packages that do not have any shlibs or symbols file.
<joaopinto> To help dpkg-shlibdeps find private libraries, you might need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
<joaopinto> using dh7, how do I tell dpkg-shlibdeps that the required .so is also provided by the package ?
<udienz> hello, i have question again. if upstream package from debian is outdate and i have uploaded to mentors.debian.net and since this minutes a package has not been uploaded can i submit to ubuntu?
<micahg> udienz: unless it's urgent, give it a few days on mentors
<udienz> micahg: thanks, my packages has been submitting to debian-mentors since 6th Dec
<kklimonda> udienz: it's just as hard to get something into ubuntu as it is to get it into debian. Maybe even harder ;)
<hakermania> Riddell: my orig.tar.gz is not missing the data/ folder!
<ScottK> kklimonda: It looks like one of your rebuilds misbuilt on powerpc as python-visual still pulls in the older gtkmm-2.4-dev.  I'm trying to figure out which one ...
<mhall119> if I have a new upstream verion of a package already accepted into the archives, do I still submit it to revu?
<ScottK> No
<ScottK> File a bug against the package in LP.  Attach the new diff.gz or diff.tar.gz to the bug and subscribe sponsors
<mhall119> file a bug for getting the new version?
<mhall119> or for the fixes in it?
<mhall119> hmmm, the needs-packaging bug is still open, so maybe its not in the archives yet
<ScottK> mhall119: Those have to be closed by hand, so possibly someone forgot too.
<mhall119> ok
<ScottK> A bug for getting the new version.
<udienz> Hello all, if you have more time please review my proposal at bug 549365
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 549365 in light-themes (Ubuntu) "Terminals have a translucent background" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/549365
<ebroder> udienz: Someone from the design team needs to review that change. It's not an issue of technical review
<udienz> ebroder: which team? do you mean ubuntu-artwork?
<ebroder> udienz: It looks like vish already pinged the appropriate people. Have some patience, please
<udienz> ebroder: okay i'll waiting
<vish> udienz: you can directly ping Cimi either on #ubuntu-desktop or on #ayatana
<ScottK> kklimonda: I think I found it.
<udienz> vish: well done, i have asked to Cimi. thanks!
<vish> np..
<kklimonda> ScottK: right, as I was afraid gtkglextmm for powerpc is still in queue
<hakermania> Riddell: Package updated. All errors mentioned corrected. If you have time please have a check :)
<kklimonda> ScottK: (the libatkmm-1.6.la reference comes from the gtkglextmm, and not from gtkmm/atkmm as one would suspect :))
<ScottK> kklimonda: It failed so I just retried it.
<kklimonda> ScottK: ah, you are right - I did mention it to doko the other day
<ScottK> kklimonda: Get your MOTU application done.  If you were MOTU now you could've retried it yourself...
<hakermania> Any motu here that can have a check in my upload :) ?
<udienz> Riddell: following bug 63189, aspell-id has been uploaded. but i can't see this package at natty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 63189 in aspell (Debian) "[needs-packaging] No aspell-id (indonesian) in Ubuntu" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63189
<micahg> udienz: I asked that the package be removed form the queue since you said you were going through Debian
<micahg> and you made changes after upload
<micahg> in addition the version was incorrectr
<udienz> micahg: hm.. how to solving it? seems like aspell-id at debian mentors is ignored by dd
<udienz> *DD
<micahg> udienz: you just started over there, also, I thought there was someone who commented in the wnpp bug in Debian
<micahg> udienz: there's an unanswered comment in the wnpp bug
<micahg> cyphermox: BTW, I didn't forget about ofono, I just didn't see an update to do anything with
 * micahg made a mistake about aspell-id, still sitting in NEW
<micahg> udienz: my apologies, I didn't know Riddell reuploaded it, it's currently sitting in NEW and will probably be processed next week
<udienz> micahg: sorry i have dicconnect
<udienz> micahg: okey no problem..
<hakermania> Any motu that can review my package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch ? thx
<udienz> micahg: i put this package in ubuntu because this package is very important in Indonesia. when i see aspell-id at mentors is slow i'm very sad... anyway thanks for your help
<micahg> udienz: you need to respond on the wnpp bug, there's an unanswered comment
<udienz> micahg: oke, and answered now
<ari-tczew> micahg: how about libjdic-java? is it on todo list? ;)
<micahg> ari-tczew: yes :)
<ari-tczew> micahg: if you will fix this FTBFS, you're my lord
<micahg> ari-tczew: I'll probably look at it at the end of the month when I have some time off
<ari-tczew> aha
<hakermania> Is any MOTU here?
<Rhonda> hakermania: Simply ask your question and you shall be answered if someone knows an answer. :)
<hakermania> Rhinda: Thx, I just wanted to ask if someone has time to take alook to my upload :O
<Rhonda> if you are patient, sure someone will be able to answer. Just ask and wait. :)
<ari-tczew> hakermania: what's the problem?
<hakermania> ari-tczew: There's no problem :)
<kim0> I just fixed bug 687977 .. If anyone is interested to pick it up
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 687977 in ibmasm-utils (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] package 'ibmasm-utils' (3.0-1ubuntu10) failed to build on natty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687977
<hakermania> OK, if any MOTU or reviewer has time please have a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch Thx in advance. Have a nice night.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-11
<udienz> Hi again, i have question
<udienz> i try make font package
<udienz> but upstream project doesn't include copyright at tarballs
<udienz> but i got GPL2 license at project homepage
<udienz> can i add gpl copyright outside debian dirs?
<udienz> this is may package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8767
<udienz> solved bugs 688780
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 688780 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ttf-indonesian" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688780
<kklimonda> udienz: you should ask upstream maintainers to create new tarball with license
<udienz> kklimonda: ok, i'll send my email to upstream maintainers
<kklimonda> udienz: also standard GPLv2 isn't really well suited for fonts
<kklimonda> ask them if they provide an exception for embedding their fonts into documents (there is an example on a gnu.org)
<udienz> kklimonda: ok, i do it now
<kklimonda> udienz: also, only .ttf files are not enough to make package dfsg-compliant as they are not really easily (if at all) editable.
<kklimonda> udienz: there are some sfd files in the svn repository - they may be "source files" for those fonts, but I don't really know enough about fonts to know if it's true
<udienz> kklimonda: well, i have done send my email to upstream authors. i hope i got many informations. and Thanks for reviewing
<udienz> sorry for ask again, whats procedure to find a mentors?
<udienz> i have already send email to motu-mentoring-reception@reponses.net
<kunal> hi
<frewsxcv> why does tasksel require aptitude?
<matttbe> Hello,
<matttbe> There is a bug with Wicd and Python 2.7 on Natty => https://bugs.launchpad.net/wicd/+bug/602825
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 602825 in wicd (Arch Linux) "wicd doesnt like python 2.7" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<matttbe> Is it possible to merge my branch https://code.launchpad.net/~matttbe/wicd/ubuntu_python27 into lp:ubuntu/wicd ?
<matttbe> The patch has been mentioned onÂ bug #602825Â and applied on wicd-devel branch (and available on wicd 1.7.1 beta 2).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602825 in wicd (Arch Linux) "wicd doesnt like python 2.7" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602825
<ebroder> matttbe: I was literally just about to close my laptop and go to sleep, but I'll look at it tomorrow if nobody has by then
<ebroder> (Not that that should stop anybody else from looking)
<matttbe> ebroder: thank you ;)
<matttbe> yes because it's a bit annoying to lose wicd :)
<matttbe> but of course, we can use wpa_supplicant and dhclient
<hakermania> hello, if any motu has time please have a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch Thank you in advance
<hakermania> hello, if any motu has time please have a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch Thank you in advance
<cdbs> hakermania: I would highly recommend you to try getting that into Debian instead
<ari-tczew> SpamapS: are you on merge mongodb?
<ari-tczew> angelabad: do you planning merge your TIL from main?
<angelabad> ari-tczew, I dont understand...
<ari-tczew> angelabad: TIL = Touched In Last. are you going to merge packages in main where you are a last uploader?
<angelabad> ari-tczew, you can upload them if you want
<ari-tczew> angelabad: I can't. I'm not in core-dev. :)
<angelabad> but you can do the merge
<angelabad> ari-tczew, I will try to merge them, but at monday more or less, but if you want/can do before, please merge them
<ari-tczew> angelabad: easy, I'm leaving them for you. :)
<angelabad> ok, If I have problems with them I will ask here
<Riddell> cdbs: has MOTU just given up reviewing new packages?
<cdbs> Riddell: no, but its recommended to try there as well
<cdbs> since that's the normal workflow AND other packages can easily use it there itself
<cdbs> infact
<cdbs> I often review packages on REVU
<cdbs> just that I am busy ATM, so recommended him to do that in the meantime, until he finds another reviewer
<hakermania> cdbs: You are not the only one who can review new packages. So, if anyone has the time and the appetite to review my package, I please him to do it. I don't want any inclusion into debian or anything else. After all, ubuntu is more famous than debian! http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch
<cdbs> hakermania: you misunderstood me
<cdbs> I meant, that until someone else comes around and reviews, this is a good way to utilise time and effort
<Riddell> hakermania: I've left comments
<hakermania> Riddell: Oh, thanks again, you must be one of the most hard-working reviewers.!
<geser> hakermania: you don't need the Closes: in debian/changelog, "lp: #xxx" is enough (Closes: #xxx is for Debian bugs)
<hakermania> geser: Ok, thx :)
<geser> hakermania: doesn't it work with older version of sed and grep? and I'm surprised to see a dependency on a mp3 player on a wallpaper changer
<BUGabundo> morning
<BUGabundo> anyone here uses android or develops for android, would be willing to package the SDK to a PPA or Universe?
<hakermania> geser: Propably, but as the package is for natty, and the version I've mentioned are default for maverick, i don't see the point why to put an earlier version of them. The mpg321 is the smallest mp3 player I found so at the user to have the ability to choose his own ogg, mp3 or wav sound for sound notification on wallpaper change.
<geser> hakermania: if it also works with older version of sed and grep too (so you don't need a versioned dependency) you can remove sed and grep as both are "essential" packages (available on every system)
<hakermania> geser: Ok, thx again.
<geser> and if your program works without mpg321 too (just doesn't play any notifications) then you could move it to recommends instead of depends
<hakermania> Riddell: Are you sure you reviewed the last uploaded version? Because, yes, I got the error /home/jr/.config/WallpaperChanger/Scripts/starter: 539: b: not found but in the uploaded source this error doesn't exist at my PC at least.
<hakermania> geser: No, I prefer to let it as it is.
<hakermania> geser: imagemagick is also an "essential" package. Should I remove it as well?
<geser> no, imagemagick is not "essential"
<hakermania> geser: when you say "essential" don't you mean "installed by default"?
<geser> apt-cache show sed | grep Essential
<geser> when you try to remove imagemagick apt will probably remove a bunch of other apps too (but not complain otherwise), if you try the same with sed or grep, apt will complain loudly
<hakermania> geser: Ok, thx, I'll let imagemagick as it is, May I have a question, in case you tried the program, when you run the 'starter' script, do you get error /home/$USER/.config/WallpaperChanger/Scripts/starter: 539: b: not found ?
<geser> I didn't try it out yet
<hakermania> geser: if you do so, please let me know, because I find it very strange. In my PC there are no errors.
<Riddell> hakermania: further comment added
<hakermania> geser: Ok, thank you Riddell.
* cdbs changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Archive: Open | Python 2.6 -> 2.7 transitions going on, tag bugs with python27 | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/
<hakermania> geser: Error went away
<hakermania> New upload that removes the wallch-1.0/wallch on clean uploaded. When somebody  has time :) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch
<udienz> hakermania: hello
<hakermania> udienz: hi.
<udienz> you need review? please wait.. maybe ubuntu-motu teams is busy
<udienz> but don't worry
<hakermania> udienz: I don't
<ari-tczew> hakermania: I suggest to ask on #kubuntu-devel
<ari-tczew> I saw that Riddell helped you today
<hakermania> ari-tczew: Yes, but why is #kubuntu-devel suitable for such a question?
<ari-tczew> hakermania: is your package related to KDE?
<hakermania> ari-tczew: No!
<ari-tczew> hakermania: mhm. Riddell's comment mistaked me about plasma
<hakermania> ari-tczew: Yes, i found it stragne, too
<hakermania> strange*
<hakermania> ari-tczew: Do you think I should post a comment that says that the package is developed for Ubuntu with GNOME desktop ?
<ari-tczew> hakermania: I think that it's not necessary, but if you want...
<hakermania> ari-tczew: I did so :P
<SpamapS> ari-tczew: sorry, I don't understand your question "are you on merge mongodb?"
<ari-tczew> SpamapS: do you planning merge package mongodb (universe) from Debian?
<SpamapS> ari-tczew: ooh.. sorry. ;) I hadn't planned on doing another merge of it in natty, so if you're interested, please go ahead. :)
<SpamapS> ari-tczew: looks pretty simple actually.. :)
<ari-tczew> SpamapS: ATM, I'm not.
<SpamapS> ari-tczew: alright, well its on my radar now, so I'll try to fit it in.. I also want to backport 1.6 to lucid...
<SpamapS> I feel like backports is a dead idea with PPA's
<ari-tczew> SpamapS: hmmm, what about maverick?
<SpamapS> ari-tczew: if you're crazy enough to run mongodb on a server in maverick, you're crazy enough to build it from source on your own. ;)
<ari-tczew> SpamapS: build from source is not a problem
<SpamapS> it would be cool if there was a simple program.. 'backport-to-ppa $distro ppa:foo/bar $dsc_file'
<SpamapS> that just extracted, bumped changelog appropriately, and uploaded to the ppa
<ari-tczew> SpamapS: dch command :>
<Sarvatt> I guess it might be relevant to a bunch of stuff in universe, but people would no doubt try it for things like X components and complain when things are busted or it doesn't work :)
<c_korn> is there a variable predefined for the upstream version in debian/rules ?
<ebroder> SpamapS: 'backport-to-ppa $distro ppa:foo/bar $dsc_file'> I have that script, I just need to clean it up a bit
<ebroder> Actually, if you want something that takes a dsc file and blasts it into a PPA, I've got http://web.mit.edu/broder/Public/upload-all, but I'm working on another one that's more targeted at backporting archive packages
<hakermania> cdbs: R U MOTU?
<cdbs> hakermania: yes
<hakermania> cdbs: can you review uploads ?
<cdbs> btw, no need to ask that in caps
<cdbs> hakermania: YEs I can, but if its wallch, I can't (I am not good at KDE packages)
<cdbs> I am a GNOME dev mainly
<hakermania> cdbs: It's not a KDE package :) It is for Ubuntu Linux designed to work with GNOME Desktop :)
<cdbs> hakermania: oh! will look tomorrow, I will have to go offline after 10 mins
<cdbs> sorry for that
<hakermania> cdbs: np :)
<udienz> :)
<udienz> hakermania: please be patient
<hakermania> udienz: I can't be :) Excitement doesn't let me to be :D
<udienz> hm.. FYI, i'm waiting for a week
<udienz> only for review or comments
<ari-tczew> cdbs: hey, I found last time some patches (non-debdiff, unfortunately) in SQ. These are papercuts fixes. are you interested to take them?
<udienz> but its ok
<geser> udienz, hakermania: only very few MOTUs still do reviews on REVU, so you either have to be very patient and/or try to get your package into Debian too.
<hakermania> geser: We've heard that several times. But the thing is, will my package be working in Debian for sure?
<udienz> geser: okay. ic ic, every people have business. its ok for me. i don't have any package for review yet
<geser> Debian and Ubuntu aren't that different. What makes you believe it won't work there?
<udienz> because i have trouble at copyright :(
<hakermania> geser: Idk, has Debian gconftool, imagemagick ??
<udienz> *upstream
<geser> hakermania: sure to both (if in doubt you can use packages.debian.org to search for packages or files). Debian has also Gnome packaged. Although not at the same version like in Ubuntu but that shouldn't be a problem here.
<geser> you program would probably even work on Suse or Fedora (package names might be different in the RPM world but that is it)
<udienz> hakermania: try to fix some bugs or make some patch. so your spirit keep up :)
<hakermania> udienz: What are you talking about ?
<udienz> :0 sorry for my bad english
<udienz> hakermania: check http://harvest.ubuntu.com/opportunities/
<hakermania> udienz: What is this?
<hakermania> geser: Can you give me if you can  a direct link for a 32-bit image of Debian ? They have mess it a lot in the website!
<hakermania> udienz: I got it, you mean to make patches for already existed BUGS. Right?
<udienz> rught
<udienz> *right
<hakermania> I'll have a look on it later. :) Thx
<geser> hakermania: for live-cd or installation?
<hakermania> geser: Live-cd provides installation, so live-cd please, thx
<geser> I'm not so sure if the Debian live-cd also provides an install feature like the Ubuntu one
<hakermania> Ok, then installation (i'll have it on virtualbox anyway)
<geser> http://debian.org/CD/netinst/ if you have a useable internet connection
<geser> I know Debian has also DVD images for download too but I guess with netinst you might need to download less
<hakermania> geser: Thx, May I ask one more thing: Do I have to cancel my upload to REVU to upload the package for Debian? Or, what is the procedure I have to follow now (what do you suggest?). Think that I must change the package's name (it should be 1ubuntu0 and not 0ubuntu1 or something like this!)
<geser> hakermania: not sure about the proceures with REVU when you upload your package to mentors.debian.net. The version is -1 as this will be the first revision of this package and upstream version in Debian.
<hakermania> geser: My next package will definitely go through debian first!!! Unfortunately there are not enough MOTUs in Revu! I am afraid that revu will soon close :(
<udienz> hakermania: hm... cool down..
<hakermania> udienz: If people continue forcing to upload at Debian first, all contributors will upload for Ubuntu first. So, what will be the use of Revu when everybody (and some MOTUs(!)) suggest passing your package to Debian ?
<geser> hakermania: the lack of MOTUs is nothing new, the situation is since at least two releases the same
<hakermania> geser: 2 releases is 1 year two months. It's not that much.
<geser> getting the package into Debian benefits Debian and Ubuntu and I hope the uploader continues to maintain his package in future
<geser> perhaps even 3 releases, don't know exactly when as it was a slow change
<geser> the reason I don't do reviews in REVU anymore is that I got the impression that REVU tends to attract "package-and-forget" packagers. Once they package gets into Ubuntu they vanish
<geser> and the packages increases the MOTU workload
<geser> in practice this means that nobody will upgrade it and it will bit-rot in the archive
<hakermania> geser: Why this isn't happening in Debian?
<hakermania> Why isn't this happening in Debian?*
<geser> it happens there too, but Debian has many more developers (several hundred) so there is bigger chance that someone (or a team) adopts this package or does work on it as part of QA
<hakermania> geser: Why Debian has more developers? Is Debian thought to be better than Ubuntu?
<geser> hakermania: Debian exists longer so they had more time to attract more developers
<udienz> hakermania: IMHO, before you upload your package and ask someone to review. its better when you help motu team, try to fix bugs, solving bug with patch or debdiff
<udienz> !link Debdiff
<udienz> :D
<udienz> well i'm not MOTU
<geser> Ubuntu's first release was around 2004 (if I remember correctly, too lazy to look it up) while Debian exists since 1993 or so
<udienz> but i'm ready to help
<geser> for comparison: last I looked up the numbers (some months ago) MOTU had around 100 members in total and around 50 active members
<geser> sometimes I've the impression new MOTUs get approved at the same rate as other MOTUs vanish (busy with real life or other things)
<crimsun> and, sadly, as we specialize, we tend to spend less time in what-used-to-be-universe
<nigelb> what-used-to-be-universe?
<geser> that too
<nigelb> it is now unseeded?
<ebroder> Well, it's still universe, but that probably won't last long
<geser> when I stated crimsun was more active as MOTU like today (he focuses now on sound issues)
 * ebroder is kind of sad. Master Of The Unseeded just doesn't have the same ring
<hakermania> Omg, all these sound very important to me. Have you called the police to inform the people that Ubuntu will close down :P
<hakermania> ?
<nigelb> ebroder: Gardener of the unseeded? ;)
<udienz> :D very interested discussion
<hakermania> hakermania: Glad to be the seeder of it :P
<hakermania> I think I feel an attraction for Debian too :( I hate myself telling this. I swear-ed to be faithful with Ubuntu. :/
<nigelb> Well, tbh, a good deal of Ubuntu developers are Debian developers or Debian maintainers.
<hakermania> nigelb: Ubuntu has only a few only-ubuntu-developers as I can see :/ So, do something good and go review my package so to be attracted to Ubuntu :D xD (haha)
<nigelb> I'm not an ubuntu developer yet.
<udienz> hakermania: don't force anyone
<udienz> please..
<hakermania> udienz: It was only a joke :)
<geser> nigelb: you still can do reviews if you want but not advocate
<nigelb> geser: I could, but then I'd rather have packages coming from Debian myself
<udienz> ended? :D
<udienz> hakermania: hot about fix some bugs? or make pacth
<hakermania> udienz: Why are you so fix-bug-maniac ?
<hakermania> I don't want to fix other's errors. it's their job to fix them.
<nigelb> That attitude doesn't help really.
<udienz> hakermania: as geser says before, many "packaging-and-forget"
<maco> packages that are being submitted to revu and that then all the rest of the motu are going to have to pick up the slack on because the original submitter is ignoring its bugs?  those are exactly the sort we /dont/ want
<udienz> hakermania: you can prove that you aren't not "packaging-and-forget"
<maco> i once told persia i didnt think i could apply to motu because i didnt submit things through revu before and he was like "no no! we dont need more stuff on our plate! if you just want to maintain whats already there, thats great!"
<hakermania> udienz: Go private and explain me please how to make a patch, I can't help attacking :P
<hakermania> udienz: Really. I'm not joking.
<udienz> hakermania: just PM me, but i'm not expert at packaging, i still learn at here
<udienz> its better when we studied together at here
<hakermania> Ok, I know how to package an application, but I don't know how to make a patch for a bug. Can you help me a  bit?
<hakermania> Btw, I don't think that the channel is suitable for how-to-patch discussions!
<udienz> hakermania: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<udienz> try do read all pages under PackagingGuide
<hakermania> thx
<udienz> and motu have many videos
<hakermania> "try" That's the correct word. I will.
<nigelb> hakermania: This channel is perfectly fine for how-topatch discussions btw :)
<hakermania> nigelb: Ok
<hakermania> I must go now..!
<ScottK> Next time someon sees bilalakhtar/cdbs please give him a good whack in the head for uploading stuff without test building and then ask him how he plans to fix courier.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-12
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you send MemoMsg to him?
<udienz> ScottK: thanks for responding my email at ubuntu-motu-mentors
<hakermania> Hello everybody.
<hakermania> udienz: Hello, can you send me again the link talking about the patches, please? Thank you.
<hakermania> Dos anybody knows what are "*.in" files?
<geser> sort of templates
<micahcowan> They can be anything, but the most frequent situation are files that are processed by the "configure" script to produce the final file.
<micahcowan> configure looks for variables like @VAR@ and replaces them according to whatever settings it has. Makefile.in and config.h.in are typical.
<hakermania> Thank you, tomboy's source has a lot of them and I wondered....
<micahcowan> Often times, a Makefile.in is itself a generated file (from Makefile.am).
<micahcowan> automake turns Makefile.am into Makefile.in (unlike configure, it doesn't just substitute, it adds a lot of material, and processes the user-provided values); then configure turns the Makefile.in into a Makefile, based on the users parameters to the configure script.
<tumbleweed> geser: thanks :)
<geser> tumbleweed: re CamelCase: I tried to mimic the LP API which also uses CamelCase when I wrote it to not be much more different than using the LP API directly
<geser> but as there are not many users of lpapicache (requestsync and ubuntu-build if I didn't miss one) it can be changed
<geser> and any ideas how to make it easier usable?
<tumbleweed> geser: yeah. requestsync also needs the compatible mail and lp interfaces, which is one reason for some of the oddities
<tumbleweed> there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the way it does anything, it's just different, so I looked at it and thought do I want to use this or just do things the normal way?
<geser> if you only need to access an object once then there is no big benefit in it
<tumbleweed> no, but it has handy functions like canUploadPackage etc for things that are tricky to do in pure launchpadlib
<geser> but the old requestsync code fetched e.g. an series or archive object in each function which needed it which made requestsync slow
<tumbleweed> I couldn't use things like that, because thye talk lpapicache wrapper clases as arguments, so you need to use lpapicache everywhere
<geser> and you already have LP objects or only strings?
<tumbleweed> lp objects, probably
<geser> this function could be extended to also use lp objects instead of the lpapicache classes if it would help you
<geser> or the logic could be moved to an own function and lpapicache uses it
<tumbleweed> yeah, I'm sure both would work, but libsupport might be a better home for things like that. Although no point moving them until necessary
<geser> I planned to use lpapicache also in other scripts but was hesitant to make them "depend" on u-d-t python modules for no benefit (many scripts can be used stand-alone)
<tumbleweed> aah, I hadn't really considered that one
<hakermania> Ok, I have a question about patching a system. I followed these rules: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems (where it says 'The easiest way'). After I make the patch (I simply edited the README file), the patch went to debian/patches. How to I apply the patch now so as the README file to change as I want to? I tried path -p0 < debian/patches/mypatch.patch but there are a lot of error messages! Or the package is ready fo
<ari-tczew> hakermania: which patch system does your package use?
<hakermania> what-patch outputs quilt.
<ari-tczew> hakermania: did you use command path -p0? patch is correct btw
<ari-tczew> but you shouldn't do this
<ari-tczew> just add filename to debian/patches/series
<cdbs> ScottK: I am sorry for that, if you read the previous upload of mine for the same package, you will understand
<cdbs> The same fix worked in the previous upload
<cdbs> and here it worked on my (slightly old) natty pbuilder
<ari-tczew> cdbs: it's not explanation
<cdbs> it appears a recent gcc change caused that FTBFS
<ari-tczew> cdbs: how often do you update pbuilder?
<cdbs> ari-tczew: around once a week or twice
<ari-tczew> cdbs: lol. do it everyday
<cdbs> if I had the proper connection :(
<ari-tczew> add to cron, maybe will helpful
<cdbs> this one frops very frequently, it takes me hours to upload small changes
<cdbs> *drops
<hakermania> ari-tczew: Ok, the patchs' name was automatically placed into the series file. My question is how do I apply the patch now ? Is the package ready for 'debuild -S' and if somebody try to install it, the patch will automatically take place or what?
<hakermania> I mean, how do i test if the patch really works?
<cdbs> I will need to consult someone on how to fix it, since a fix which worked a month ago isn't working now, wierd
<micahg> cdbs: right, there was a gcc update, doko posted to ubuntu-devel about it
<ari-tczew> hakermania: create a second directory, unpack source there and try to patch it. however, I prefer to just build package (binary) from *.dsc.
<cdbs> micahg: yes, and it appears I uploaded the same day :(
<cdbs> and I didn't get the FTBFS mail, oh its lying in spam
<hakermania> ari-tczew: I don't get you :/
<cdbs> ScottK: fixing right now, for sure I will do it
<ari-tczew> hakermania: you don't need to use 'patch'. builder will apply patches
<hakermania> ari-tczew: So I can now for example use 'debuild -b' and test if the DEB package works with the changes of my patch?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: if your package uses quilt, quilt push -a will apply all patches, and quilt pop -a will unapply them all
<hakermania> tumbleweed: Cool, give me a sec to test these 2.
<tumbleweed> hakermania: I recommend spending some time getting familiar with quilt
 * ari-tczew is guessing that someone else will be better teacher.
<hakermania> ari-tczew: :P
<hakermania> tumbleweed: Thx, I'll have an extended seach on the inet for quilt and its uses.
<ari-tczew> siretart: ping
<cdbs> hakermania: http://wiki.debian.org/UsingQuilt
<hakermania> cdbs: Your name has to do with patching, I've heard about it somewhere. Btw thanks for the link :)
<cdbs> Its much more than patching :)
<cdbs> cdbs is a full build system for packages
<tumbleweed> some of us don't like cdbs very much, but this cdbs is ok :P
<cdbs> :D
<cdbs> dh7 and debhelper were registered, so I had to settle for this
<geser> cdbs: passing -l libs with LDFLAGS doesn't work anymore since the ld --no-as-needed change. You have to put them after the object files. In many cases you can use either ..._LDADD or LIBS for it (look into the Makefile which variable could be used for it)
<cdbs> geser: I already uploaded that change to my PPA for a test build, will see what happens
<cdbs> I have to rely on my PPA for test builds nowadays, until the situation improves, and the weather becomes better
<cdbs> My connection is being disrupted by poor weather
<hakermania> cdbs: Patches should have extension .patc or .diff?
<hakermania> .patch*
<cdbs> hakermania: both are okay
<cdbs> some have no extensions at all :)
<cdbs> .patch is what I prefer personally for a new package
<geser> cdbs: I also see in debian/rules for courier on codehosting that it uses LDFLAGS=-lcrypt when calling configure. Please check the build log if configure finds everything it needs.
<cdbs> geser: that change applies when it builds the webadmin part, here I am making the change in courier/module.esmtp/Makefile
<ari-tczew> hakermania: I suggest to use the same extension as rest of patches in package (in debian/patches/)
<hakermania> ari-tczew: Only for typical reasons?
<kklimonda> geser: wouldn't it make more sense to prepare an actualy patch for packages that fail due to linking issues and then submit it to debian and upstream? tweaking debian/rules seems really hacky
<cdbs> geser: it appears the PPA rejected because I did debuild -sd :( will have to upload a whole 9 MB now
<ari-tczew> hakermania: for clear case
<hakermania> Ok
<geser> cdbs: so you didn't change debian/rules like the changelog entry says?
<cdbs> geser: no, I am now modifying upstream makefile in the pending upload, that's a better approach
<geser> cdbs: even if the LDFLAGS in debian/rules is not your change, it would be good to check if it's needed (or some feature missing) as using LDFLAGS that way doesn't work anymore
<cdbs> hmm, yes, will check that
<ari-tczew> geser: how often toolchain will be changing?
<cdbs> but that's a debian-specific change, so will have to file a bug there about it first
<ari-tczew> we don't have a time for 10x updating patches to fix FTBFS with binutils-gold. it's being annoying
<geser> ari-tczew: I hope not anymore for natty, the next change if any I'd expect for natty+1, but better ask doko if you want to know if any other changes are planned for natty
<ari-tczew> geser: what's the point to changing toolchain?
<geser> as far as I understand the reason for the recent changes is to lessen the needed dependencies as many program (and therefore packages) link to many unneeded libraries making library transitions harder than needed
<cdbs> yes, the toolchain changes have benefited a lot in that sense
<cdbs> hakermania: (just an FYI in case you don't know) All packages in Debian are synced very frequently to Ubuntu
<ari-tczew> cdbs: till DIF
<cdbs> ari-tczew: it can be done even after DIF, just that a sync must be requested
<ari-tczew> geser: does debian planning to approve similiar toolchain to ours?
<cdbs> ari-tczew: yes
<cdbs> ari-tczew: after squeeze release
<cdbs> its planned for wheezy
<ari-tczew> I'm asking due to curiosity about forwarding patches to fix building with binutils-gol
<ari-tczew> d
<geser> ari-tczew: the ld --no-add-needed (aka no DSO indirect linking) is planned for Wheezy, don't know about the ld --no-as-needed change
<geser> doko asked me forward my ld --no-as-needed changes to Debian and user-tag them accordingly
<ari-tczew> geser: what does it mean?
<geser> user-tagging? it's similar to the tags in LP and allows to search for bugs with a specific tag in the Debian BTS
<cdbs> Holy, my package upload to the PPA is failing as it did earlier
<cdbs> and I don't have any other way to test-build!
<cdbs> bug #687622 is responsible
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 687622 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Unable to upgrade with update-manager" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687622
<cdbs> I guess
<cdbs> err, bug #687662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 687662 in Soyuz "Upload processor attempts to verify hashes against expired files" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687662
<hakermania> What's the difference of launchpad bugs and bugzilla ?
<kklimonda> hakermania: ugh.. both let you report and triage bugs.. everything else is different
<geser> different software for managing bugs
<kklimonda> geser: what about my questions wrt patches for link failures? :)
<hakermania> But, bugzilla bugs rhen referred by users in lp, are called "upstream"
<hakermania> when*
<kklimonda> hakermania: different projects use different places for bug reporting. What we call upstream is (among other things) the bug tracking system that the project uses
<hakermania> kklimonda: Thx
<mr_pouit> kklimonda: (wrt patches for link failures) I agree with that. I find these kind of changes useless (and I had to redo all the work of the previous uploader when I wanted to forward upstreamâ¦)
<geser> kklimonda: missed it. yes, fixing the build system and forwaring the patch to Debian and upstream is better.
<SpamapS> Daviey: meh... 15 month old disagrees with you that I should be in bed. ;)
<hakermania> How can i turn off the messages which tell who enters and quits the room?
<evaluate> hakermania, depends on your client
<hakermania> evaluate: pidgin :/
<boulabiar> hakermania, on xchat, settings> hide join/Part messages
<evaluate> hakermania, hmm, not sure, I don't use pidgin for IRC. Try #pidgin ?
<hakermania> thx
<Daviey> SpamapS: That was my guess :)
<OwaisL> Hi everyone. How much time does it usually take for REVU to reflect uploads?
<OwaisL> I just uploaded a couple of packges in last 30 mins but revu.ubuntuwire.com is not showing them.
<OwaisL> Hey, would anyone like to have a look at a package I just uploaded to Motu for inclusion in Natty?
<OwaisL> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gmailwatcher
<anoteng> anybody know what this error message from launchpad means (rejected PPA upload): Unhandled exception processing upload: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'md5'
<Bachstelze> anoteng: looks like a bug in LP
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-05
<bkerensa> How would I upload a patch for possible sponsor?
<nigelb> You can either attach a debdiff to a bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<nigelb> Or you can submit a merge proposal
<bkerensa> nigelb: Ahh well I prepared a packge for multiarch at the join Jam/DSP and just wanna get credit for my first submission
<bkerensa> nigelb: which might be easier?
<nigelb> heh, that varies from sponsor to sponsor.
<nigelb> I personally find debdiff easier
<nigelb> But I might be old school :P
 * micahg also prefers debdiff, but that only works if there isn't an official non-UDD Ubuntu VCS branch
 * micahg is piloting tomorrow, so can take a look then
<bkerensa> micahg: Well I do not know how to do either ;) so any guidance :P this isnt a bug but just a package moved to multiarch
<micahg> bkerensa: I have to run right now, but someone else should be able to help you here, otherwise, I'll be happy to when I get back (1-4 hrs)
<jtokarchuk> so how does MOTU work? I have read the literature, but can I basically just pick a package that's not in ubuntu and make it so? Is there a todo list?
<stlsaint> JontheEchidna: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<jtokarchuk> I'm going to assume that was directed at me, I read that, so essentially, just work through bugs and produce meaningful packages?
<micahg> jtokarchuk: that's the general idea, MOTU fixes random stuff in the archive
<micahg> bkerensa: did you manage to find help yet?
<jtokarchuk> micahg, Thank you. I submitted an app for mentorship, but am awaiting a reply
<bkerensa> micahg: Yeah apparently I should wait till patch is uploaded upstream then sync down and I will get credit since I'm in changelog?
<micahg> bkerensa: well, you won't get credit in LP per se, but it can count towards development activity
<micahg> bkerensa: regardless of whether or not a patch is uploaded to Ubuntu, we try to upstream appropriate patches to Debian
<EvilResistance> micahg:  so they get synced in to the next version of Ubuntu?
<EvilResistance> (from debian)
<micahg> bkerensa: the question of whether or not to upload to Ubuntu directly vs Debian is time frame and immediate impact of having the fix in Ubuntu generally
<micahg> EvilResistance: we're still in Debian Import mode
<EvilResistance> micahg:  true, but i meant when in a non-import mode
<EvilResistance> i.e shortly after the release of oa version of ubuntu
<EvilResistance> s/oa/a/
<micahg> EvilResistance: eh, depends on what and when
<bkerensa> micahg: What if someone does the same work and I miss out?
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> micahg: I just dont know how to submit the patch since it is not a bug but instead moved a package to multiarch
<micahg> bkerensa: you can still use a wishlist bug to track that sort of thing
<micahg> bkerensa: which package is it?
<bkerensa> audiofile0
<EvilResistance> you mean libaudiofile0 ?
<EvilResistance> (there's nothing that directly matches audiofile0 in natty, oneiric, or precise)
<micahg> EvilResistance: hopefully he means the audiofile source :)
<EvilResistance> indeed
<EvilResistance> wouldnt that show up in the source repos though?  *tends to have them enabled by default*
<micahg> bkerensa: IMHO, that should probably go through Debian as it has a lot of reverse dependencies that might break with the multiarched package, you can file a bug in LP for Ubuntu and link it to the Debian bug so people are aware of your work
<micahg> eh, I guess <30 isn't that many...but still having 10 days to migrate from unstable to testing gives time to catch these things
<micahg> slangasek: ^^ any opinion on whether or not multiarched audiofile should go through Debian first?
<bkerensa> micahg: heh well slangasek will be adding to debian since he helped me multiarch it ;)
<micahg> bkerensa: well, whatever he says, I'd listen to in this case :)
<bkerensa> peh :P
<micahg> actually, I'd listen to what he says in general :)
<bkerensa> :D
<slangasek> bkerensa, micahg: we certainly want multiarch patches to be pushed to Debian, but we don't want Ubuntu to wait for them to land in Debian first
<slangasek> because there's no guarantee that will happen in time for precise
<micahg> slangasek: what do we do about rdeps, rebuild blind?
<slangasek> micahg: what about rdeps?  multiarch doesn't require them to be rebuilt unless there are .la file references
<micahg> slangasek: ah, ok, I know sometimes depending on how paths are hard-coded in apps at build time, a rebuild might be necessary, but I guess the answer is wait and see if anything breaks and fix it :)
<micahg> i.e. pkg-config paths converted to some version of hard-coded paths at run-time
<slangasek> oh, well, that is generally only relevant when plugins are involved
<slangasek> which is why today's Local Jam avoided libraries with plugins :)
<micahg> sounds good
<micahg> bkerensa: so, if you get can get a debdiff into a bug and that bug in the sponsorship queue, I'll have a look tomorrow when I'm piloting, unless slangasek was planning on sponsoring :)
<micahg> bkerensa: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Traditional_Process if you didn't use bzr to get the source package
<micahg> bkerensa: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Use_Ubuntu_Merge_Proposals if you did use bzr
<bkerensa> micahg: How do I turn the .patch into debdiff?
<bkerensa> slangasek: ok well.... I need to figure out how to get a debdiff from the patch file I have?
<slangasek> bkerensa: it's already a debdiff
<slangasek> a debdiff is just a patch expressing the difference between two source packages :)
<bkerensa> slangasek: Oh ok and I just need to file a bug requesting it be added or?
<bkerensa> :D
<slangasek> bkerensa: yep
<bkerensa> slangasek: Nothing special? if so I will file it now with Debian and Ubuntu
<slangasek> bkerensa: nope, nothing really special :)  I did send you an email with some info about how to file the bug in Debian, but if you already know how to do that, you can ignore that mail
<jtokarchuk> x.x Why does it seem that everything is fixed in harvest
<bkerensa> slangasek: Ok just fired away to Debian
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> slangasek: Is the format of opening a bug pretty much the same?
<bkerensa> on Ubuntu
<slangasek> bkerensa: no, for Ubuntu it's best to use the 'ubuntu-bug' command
<bkerensa> heh
<bkerensa> ;)
<bkerensa> slangasek: Then I just attach the same patch and request it be supported?
<slangasek> yes - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Traditional_Process
<broder> slangasek: out of curiosity, has pkg-create-dbgsym been modified to set multi-arch same?
<slangasek> I don't know
<broder> oh hey, apparently it does. go pitti
<bkerensa> slangasek: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audiofile/+bug/900153
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 900153 in audiofile (Ubuntu) "Request support for multiarch in libaudiofile0" [Undecided,New]
<bkerensa> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=651029
<ubottu> Debian bug 651029 in src:audiofile "Please support multiarch in audiofile" [Normal,Open]
<micahg> bkerensa: thanks for your work :), I should be able to get to this tomorrow when I pilot unless pitti beats me to it
<bkerensa> micahg: thx
<dholbach> good morning
<highvolt1ge> jgood morning
<highvolt1ge> *good
<Laney> ello
<l3on> fabrice_sp, ping
<l3on> cjwatson, can I look at merging ttf-cjk-compact ?
<cjwatson> l3on: please leave that to me
<l3on> cjwatson, ok :)
<l3on> some merge to suggest? :)
<micahg> l3on: there are some labeled free to take on merges.ubuntu.com
<l3on> micahg, ok :)
<micahg> l3on: would you happen to be interested in preparing security updates?  there's lots of those that need to be done for universe packages
<l3on> micahg, ok... could you provide more info? :D
<jtaylor> is there a list for security updates that need done?
<micahg> jtaylor: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/universe.html
<micahg> we also highlight 5 packages per week in our weekly security meeting in #ubuntu-meeting starting about now :)
<micahg> here we keep a list of highlighted packages which gets refreshed weekly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/HighlightedPackages
<micahg> if you're interested in helping with these, feel free to join #ubuntu-hardened to learn more :)
<l3on> thanks , I'll do :)
<fabrice_sp> l3on, pong
<fabrice_sp> !ping > l3on
<ubottu> l3on, please see my private message
<jtaylor> is there some documentation on all the motu formalities and procedures? I still suck at navigating the wiki efficently ._.
<geser> I don't know of any, just ask and someone will point you to the matching wiki page :)
<tumbleweed> there are no formalities, really
<tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership list the benefits
 * micahg thought there was a work item that came out of UDS for new developer tasks
<tumbleweed> DMB session?
<micahg> maybe
<tumbleweed> we seem to have a massive lack of notes for it...
<micahg> ah :)
<zooko> Dammit, I just registered https://launchpad.net/python-fs and I somehow failed to change the desired URL to https://launchpad.net/pyfilesystem .
<zooko> I don't see how to change it now.
<jtaylor> yey lwn subscription :) only I'm already ~4 weekly editions behind in reading :/
<zooko> Shall I send some sort fo support request to launchpad?
<cjwatson> zooko: I believe so, yes; https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<zooko> Hrm, and why can't I report a bug here now? https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-fs
<zooko> cjwatson: thanks.
<cjwatson> Bug tracking has to be turned on explicitly for new projects.  Should be in https://launchpad.net/python-fs/+configure-bugtracker
<cjwatson> linked from the front page under "Configuration options"
<cjwatson> the project page, I mean
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: we were chatting a while ago about a tool that'll tell you if something is safe to upload during a freeze
<zooko> cjwatson: thanks.
<tumbleweed> i'm currently grabbing daily build .list and .manifests to build an index of included packages
<zooko> cjwatson: https://launchpad.net/python-fs/+configure-bugtracker says "Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page. "
<tumbleweed> micahg, and stgraber suggested grabbing the contents of the supported seed too
<zooko> cjwatson: but I already requested that launchpad folks do it in my launchpad support question.
<tumbleweed> is there any convenient way to do that?
<micahg> tumbleweed: it's in a bzr branch
<tumbleweed> micahg: aah
<stgraber> micahg: or rather, in multiple bzr branches
<micahg> stgraber: right, just saw there's the desktop supported and then other supported in platform (and possibly others in the other seed branches)
<stgraber> tumbleweed: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/*/supported
<stgraber> tumbleweed: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/*.precise/supported rather
<tumbleweed> stgraber: will they always have the same names?
<tumbleweed> otherwise I've got to parse HTML file listing
<cjwatson> um, that only gives you the top-level packages
<cjwatson> please don't reinvent germinate
<tumbleweed> heh
<cjwatson> it's complicated enough as it is
<stgraber> yeah, the initial suggestion was to look at germinate's output :) not sure what tumbleweed needs that's not part of germinate's output
<cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.precise/structure and then work from the files it lists
<cjwatson> it's kind of complex though
<tumbleweed> ah, missed that file
<cjwatson> and that's only for i386; there will be some differences across architectures
<cjwatson> and s/ubuntu/somethingelse/ etc.
<cjwatson> also why is the supported seed relevant?  supported doesn't end up on any images
<micahg> cjwatson: the only time it seems relevant is after final freeze
<el2ro> Hi, could someone help a bit explaining in rough level.. what would be needed to build (backport) some packages in lauchpad?
<cjwatson> we could symlink the LP publisher's germinate output to somewhere public, maybe
<cjwatson> that might not be an entirely crazy thing to do
<el2ro> I have started to play with backportpackage tool.. And tried to backport latest PHP to lucid, but it fails with dependency issues. Those should not be so hard to fix, but is there some page explaining what backportpackage tool is doing... e.g. how to that stuff manually and fix the package to make it work
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: I assume that'd give the output from other architectures?
 * tumbleweed has a go at parsing this
<micahg> el2ro: backportpackage just changes the version so that's it's lower than the current one to support upgrades, it also changes the target in the changelog to whatever you're targeting (it has nice help output to show you the rest of its features), it won't "fix" a backport for you though, for that you need to make source changes
<el2ro> micahg: ok, but I am still missing the big picture :) Howto do those things manually and fix things. What tools needed to fetch package from launchpad... changes most likely I can handle... how to push changes package to own PPA.
<el2ro> I guess it is not so hards, but learning curve is so hard or well hidden, that it is so templating just building stuff on my web hosts and I don't want to do that :)
<micahg> el2ro: well, if you're using backportpackage, you already have the source, you'll want to look in the source folder at debian/control, these instructions might be helpful as well: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Updating_an_Ubuntu_Package
<micahg> el2ro: actually, this one might be better except you don't need steps 8 or 9 (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Traditional_Process)
<el2ro> micahg: thx, I will take a look if they will take me any further
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: the LP publisher's output would, yes
<tumbleweed> any way to get a lits of the flavors? (pity it isn't rsyncable, like cdimage.u.c is)
<cjwatson> LP source, cronscripts/publishing/cron.germinate, I'm afraid
<tumbleweed> meh, I'll just use hardcoded lists that get stale
<micahg> tumbleweed: wget --mirror?
<tumbleweed> micahg: yeah, that's the other way...
<jtaylor> ubuntu no change rebuilds will auto-sync?
<micahg> jtaylor: yes (i.e. -XbuildY)
<tumbleweed> micahg: is that output better?
<micahg> tumbleweed: what output?
<tumbleweed> micahg: committed a new version of the ubuntu-safe-to-upload tool (it's new name)
<micahg> tumbleweed: ah, will check
<micahg> tumbleweed: looks nice
<micahg> tumbleweed: although the name doesn't match the tool per se
<tumbleweed> is-seeded ?
 * micahg forgot what the hangups around the word seeded were
<tumbleweed> people misuse the term a lot
<tumbleweed> this, of course, started out looking at image contents, not seeds
<tumbleweed> but now does look at seeds (although not all seeds, only supported)
<micahg> is-seeded seems appropriate since this is what it's checking
<broder> tumbleweed: can i possibly get you to sponsor http://mentors.debian.net/package/rfs/freeimage for me?
<broder> hmm...actually, hold that thought. i just realized that i want to try and tweak one of my patches for the purposes of future maintenance
<tumbleweed> hrm, it's git tree is out of date
<el2ro> Some help pls... trying to upload a package to ppa with dput to be build for lucid (from Oneiric). How to make it build that stuff only to lucid?
<tumbleweed> el2ro: put lucid as the distribution in the changelog
<el2ro> tumbleweed: thanks, I will try to digg in
<broder> tumbleweed: oh, huh. i didn't notice it had a git tree. my inclination is to just drop the debian/control tags
<tumbleweed> it's only *just* out of date, so easy enough to sync it up again
<broder> oh, i see. ok
<tumbleweed> oh, sorry, it is up to date
<tumbleweed> just not tagged
<broder> ugh. yeah, but reconstructing the history in git will be annoying
<broder> i guess i can do it the trivial way
<tumbleweed> yeah, screw pretty history
<tumbleweed> it's orphaned, after all
<broder> the package is kind of a mess - it ships with embedded copies of a half dozen libraries
<broder> and its makefile lists the source files for *all* of them on a single line
<Resistance> broder:  wouldnt dget be preferred for getting the source packages for <packagenamehere> rather than using backportpackage to try and get the source?
<broder> the last debian upload dropped in a new version of libtiff, which was the only one the uploader couldn't tease apart from the rest of the package
<broder> which made the merge, uh, well, unpleasant
<broder> Resistance: sorry, i'm not sure what you're referring to?
<Resistance> broder:  random question, basically.  Which is preferred for getting the source package of any given package, in order for modification in order to prep for backporting?
<broder> tumbleweed: i think i can tweak the patch process so that the insane makefile is generated automatically at build time, instead of being in debian/patches/ and requiring a painful manual merge
<Resistance> broder:  assuming that the modification is needed before actually submitting to a PPA or testing the actual backport
<broder> Resistance: i'm not really sure i see how that's a backport specific question
<Resistance> broder:  its not sec
<broder> but in general, i like pull-lp-source for getting random source packages
<tumbleweed> broder: sounds reasonable
<Resistance> broder:  do yo uknow if the oneiric php5 exists in the backports for natty?
<broder> Resistance: "rmadison php5" can tell you that fairly quickly
<broder> it doesn't look like php5 has been backported to any active release
<broder> i would expect doing so to be a pretty hard sell
<Resistance> mmm
<Resistance> yeah, i was considering backporting it within a PPA (not in the -backports repo), but if it was already backported i'd just add the backports repo here ;P
<Resistance> hey broder, possible bug in backportpackage
<Resistance> broder:  theoretically this would work: backportpackage -s oneiric -p natty php5
<Resistance> it errors
<broder> uh, backportpackage doesn't take a -p argument
<Resistance> s/-p/-d/
<Resistance> accidential mistype
<broder> can you pastebin the error?
<Resistance> [kahless /var/teward/php/sourcepackage/oneiric]% backportpackage -s oneiric -d natty php5                                                  [ teward on pts/1 ]
<Resistance> Usage: backportpackage [options] <source package name or .dsc URL/file>
<Resistance> fooey
<Resistance> anyways, its just not taking the source package name
<Resistance> sec i'll pastebin the entire thing
<broder> Resistance: you didn't specify an operation to do with the package once it was backported
<Resistance> ah
<broder> you either need to specify -w or -u
<Resistance> -u is upload...
<Resistance> what's -w
<broder> so the build product has somewhere to go - either on your filesystem or LP
<broder> it specifies a "temporary" directory to stuff the build products
<broder> it should specify that in the error message:
<broder> "backportpackage: error: Please specify either a working dir or an upload target!"
<Resistance> yep seems to be working now
<Resistance> i assume pbuilder is a prereq for using -w ?
<broder> no
<Resistance> ah
<Resistance> nevermind there we go
<Resistance> broder:  if i locally backport the oneiric php5 to natty, what's the probability i explode PHP?
<Resistance> (upon installation in the natty system)
<broder> no idea
<Resistance> i guess asking in the php channel would be a better idea, or poking around the Ubuntu developer network?
<broder> or at least finding somebody who knows how the php stack is put together (#ubuntu-server, maybe?)
<Resistance> mmm
<Resistance> i'll stop there
<zooko> Folks, where is the official Ubuntu web page describing the Release Schedule?
<zooko> And in particular, when is Feature Freeze for 12.04?
<zooko> I'm wondering if we'll have a new Tahoe-LAFS release out in time for that.
<broder> zooko: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<broder> FF is 2/16
<zooko> thx
<broder> note that feature freeze exceptions for packages in universe without a lot (any?) reverse-deps are pretty easy to get
<zooko> When's the deadline for FF exceptions?
<tumbleweed> they get harder to get, closer to release
<broder> the hard, unbreakable cut-off is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnseededUniverseFinalFreeze
 * zooko nods.
<zooko> Okay, thanks.
<broder> but it's sort of a gradual transition from "whatever you want goes in" to "nothing goes in"
<broder> tumbleweed: ok, i'm happy with http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/f/freeimage/freeimage_3.15.1-1.dsc now
<broder> it has some excellent dh-autoreconf abuse
<tumbleweed> ah, I sponsored the current version in Ubuntu. That's why I remember it
<broder> does that mean i can blame you for re-enabling the embedded libraries? :)
<tumbleweed> broder: there wasn't much choice
 * broder shrugs
<broder> i think it's more long-term maintainable with my tweaks, hopefully
<tumbleweed> unless I'm thinkig of something else...
<Resistance> broder:  is there any way i can grab the Debian sid source for a package using either backportpackage or dget?
<Resistance> or should I be askign that in the debian channel on their home net
<broder> Resistance: backportpackage can take debian releases for -s
<broder> alternatively, pull-debian-source
<tumbleweed> broder: are you ignoring the git tree?
<Resistance> broder:  so theoretically i can put sid in for -s and (attempt) to backport to <ubuntudistro> ?
<broder> Resistance: yes
<Resistance> (granted that'd be stupid to direct backport without testing ;P)
<broder> tumbleweed: oh, bah. let me see if i can fake the requisite commits
<tumbleweed> broder: ok, I'm off to bed, anyway, but I'll have a look in the morning
<broder> tumbleweed: cool. i'm assuming i can't push to git.debian.org, so i'll throw the tree on github or something
<tumbleweed> do you have an alioth account yet?
<broder> i think so
<broder> does that grant git.debian.org access?
<tumbleweed> yes and no
<broder> (incidentally, i don't actually blame you for turning the embedded libraries back on - it took me a solid 3 or 4 hours to get everything teased apart correctly)
<tumbleweed> git.debian.org is part of alioth
<tumbleweed> this package is in collab-maint, so all collab-maint members can commit to it
<Resistance> broder:  out of curiosity, is it possible to use both -w and -u simultaneously, thereby throwing the backported source into a directory, and uploading it to a PPA?
<broder> Resistance: yes
<broder> you just have to pass one of the options, otherwise backportpackage would do all of its work into a tmp dir and then chuck all of it
<tumbleweed> broder: however, you can push a private branch, http://wiki.debian.org/Alioth/Git#Using_personal_Git_repositories
<broder> tumbleweed: ok. i'll get that sorted out, then
<tumbleweed> bonus points for adding the missing tags :)
<broder> k
<broder> snapshot.debian.org ftw
<RoAkSoAx>  /win 4
<broder> ooh, even better, git-import-dscs can do it for me
<tumbleweed> broder: the commits look there, just not tagged
<broder> ah, so they are
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-06
<Resistance> anyone here know how to get a wordpress blog onto planet.ubuntu.com?
<Resistance> thought i'd ask whilst i hunt down people on the regional board who approved my membership
<micahg> Resistance: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu
<Resistance> micahg:  yeah, but i have some questions ;P
<Resistance> specifically...
<Resistance> whats a 'hackergotchi', and is there any special config i have to do within wordpress to make it work?
 * micahg is unfamiliar with the reference
<lifeless> avatar
<lifeless> photo
<lifeless> image
<lifeless> picture
<lifeless> mugshot
<Resistance> ah
<Resistance> can it be changed at a later date once uploaded?
<lifeless> presumably
<Resistance> (i.e. if i change my image, so to speak)
 * micahg should probably set up a blog after 2 yrs :)
<Resistance> micahg:  lo
<Resistance> lol*
<psusi> is there a bzr version of git rebase?
<lifeless> bzr-rebase?
<psusi> there some special package you have to install to get that?
<lifeless> I believe its in 'bzr-rewrite
<lifeless> '
<psusi> ahh, there we go
<Resistance> lifeless:  could i just use a smaller version of the launchpad avatar/image I iuse?
<Resistance> use*
<Resistance> for the hackergotchi
<broder> tumbleweed: git repository should show up at git://git.debian.org/~ebroder-guest/freeimage.git some time within the next 6 hours
<thedude_> Hi
<thedude_> Just out of curiousity
<thedude_> is there a formal way of suggesting my launchpad packages to be added to universe?
<broder> thedude_: if your packages aren't specific to ubuntu, we really, really prefer that new packages come to universe through debian
<broder> http://mentors.debian.net/ is a good place to start
<thedude_> ah that makes sense
<JackyAlcine> Hey, I'm writing a debian/control file, is there a way for an app's dependencies to be automatically loaded into the Builds-Depends field?
<JackyAlcine> I'm using CMake for building.
<broder> JackyAlcine: you could probably do it, but that sort of thing is really strongly discouraged, because it creates the possibility of build-dependencies changing without explicit action changing them
<broder> (which can affect otherwise unchanged rebuilds or security builds or any other type of builds)
<JackyAlcine> I'll stick to standards then, and I see why that'd be discouraged.
<JackyAlcine> Thanks, broder
<broder> the debian ftpmasters will automatically reject any package whose build-deps are dynamically generated
<broder> np :)
<broder> (the second item in the table at http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html - it's talking about a misguided option in cdbs specifically, but is more generally applicable)
<dholbach> good morning
<ApOgEE> hi, I'm having problem with devel package. if I want to install devel package from source, which file should I copy to where?
<tumbleweed> broder: knew it'd be rejected. I'll add an override
<broder> tumbleweed: thanks - i didn't realize embedded-library was on the autoreject list. looks like it's built on everything, so i'll go ahead and sync it
<broder> (once lp picks it up)
<tumbleweed> broder: did you see the bug requesting a patch for the next libpng? :)
<broder> the lp bug?
<tumbleweed> debian
<broder> oh, no. i thought i only saw one debian bug
<tumbleweed> oh, also, your tags were the wrong type. Turned them into annotated tags
<broder> that was what git-import-dsc created
<broder> (i thought it was weird too)
<broder> anyway, getting that update pulled together was scarring enough that i really, really have no interest in adopting the package :-P
 * Laney receives a terrifying email from lp-udd
<Laney> seems the librarian is broken ...
<tumbleweed> yup
<tumbleweed> soren was making noises about it in #launchpad
<Laney> so i saw
<tumbleweed> and I'm also getting rude e-mails from scripts
<tumbleweed> Laney: it didn't bump the stamp, did it?
<Laney> yeah but i rolled it back
<Laney> it also managed to get a few uploads
<tumbleweed> ok, we should make it not do that
<Laney> more than n fails -> abort
<Laney> ?
<tumbleweed> probably better go for a window
<tumbleweed> more than n fails from m entries
<Laney> n%
<Laney> sounds ok
<psusi> quilt mail says it needs you to install "formail" but I can find no such package.  what do I need to be able to mail quilt patches?
<Laney> formail is in the procmail package
<Laney> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=formail&mode=exactfilename&suite=oneiric&arch=any
<psusi> ahh... apt-cache search wasn't turning that up...
<cjwatson> psusi: for looking for files, you need apt-file rather than apt-cache
<cjwatson> or you can just run the command and let command-not-found tell you :-)
<psusi> so quilt mail doesn't seem to understand DEP-3 headers... it puls the subject line and discards the rest.  Any workaround for that?
<jtaylor> put the tags below the subject
<psusi> jtaylor: eh?  they are
<jtaylor> with a empty line between tags and subject
<psusi> then that's not DEP-3 ;)
<psusi> sigh... but I guess I'll just have to manually go add the blank lines to all of these patches then
<jtaylor> its the best possible currently
<jtaylor> how many patches have you got oo
<psusi> 17
<psusi> got it done already, wasn't that bad
<ockham_> i'm currently trying to switch unity-lens-bliss from autotools to distutils.
<ockham_> i'm not exactly a distutils guru, so i was wondering what's the proper way to substitute vars (as is otherwise done by autotools)
<ockham_> can someone give me a hint on how to do that?
<ockham_> tumbleweed: ^^
<ockham_> ( see lp:~ockham-razor/unity-lens-bliss/distutils )
<tumbleweed> ockham_: it doesn't have a concept of substitude vars
<tumbleweed> ockham_: however it's python, so you can do anything you want
<ockham_> tumbleweed: i found distutils.util.subst_vars
<ockham_> tumbleweed: could be useful
<tumbleweed> why do you need them?
<ockham_> tumbleweed: isn't that for, well, variable substitution? -- upstream's currently doing that --via autotools
<tumbleweed> ockham_: those are very simple substutions, you can easily do them yourself (if distutils.util.subst_vars doesn't do what you want, haven't heard of it or looked at it)
<oxullo> Greetings, everybody. Got a noob launchpad question. I just fixed the issues described here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libavg/+bug/899183 and I'm wondering if I simply have to upload again the files (logs, debian.tar.gz, dsc, source.changes) or there is another custom in such cases (like bumping ubuntu revision leaving the previous as UNRELEASED). Thanks in advance
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 899183 in libavg (Ubuntu) "Please upgrade to libavg v1.7.0" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<broder> oxullo: you definitely don't bump the version number - you don't need to do that until after that version has been uploaded to the ubuntu archive
<broder> oxullo: and you shouldn't need to upload all of those files - at most, the .dsc and .debian.tar.gz
<broder> and .dsc isn't all that important, really
<oxullo> broder: pdebuild session log for convenience? so I basically overwrite the old ones
<broder> oxullo: i wouldn't bother. anybody sponsoring will test the build themselves before uploading
<oxullo> broder: alright. Thank you!
<oxullo> broder: one last question, if I may.. Should I change anything on the state of the bug or just upload and brief comment? the potential sponsor is subscribed..
<broder> oxullo: make sure ubuntu-sponsors is subscribed (i usually unsubscribe them when i don't think something is ready to be sponsored, but andrew didn't), and change the status to something other than incomplete - probably confirmed
<oxullo> broder: I subscribed ubuntu-sponsors when I uploaded the first set of files, it's still there. Ok, thank you very much again!
<pcpratts> hi, I am making my own .deb;  installation works fine with dpkg -i but now I am trying to use apt-get
<pcpratts> it seems that when I update reprepro it is using a cached copy of the deb
<pcpratts> for my development I need to be able to quickly update the apt repository with the same package version number
<tumbleweed> pcpratts: you don't need to, or want to, use the same version number. You only think so.
<pcpratts> tumbleweed.  but this package isn't being released
<pcpratts> tumbleweed: I am working on releasing the package.  I am debugging the installer
<tumbleweed> so, put a .1 and the end and increment it continuously
<tumbleweed> or stop using reprepro
<pcpratts> tumbleweed: okay so I guess you are saying I will be fighting alot if I do it my way.  okay.  I will increment the number. thanks
<EvilResistance> anyone got any idea when lp's librarian is going to be back up and running?
<broder> EvilResistance: i'd pay attention to #launchpad
<EvilResistance> until then the package publishers are down :/
<tumbleweed> if you want an easy archive that doesn't require you to increment versions, just use dpkg-scanpackages
<EvilResistance> broder:  was curious if the motu's knew anything that #launchpad wasnt telling normal users :P
<tumbleweed> but for debugging, you shouldn't need ot be usin gapt
<tumbleweed> EvilResistance: naah, there's no secret channel
<broder> EvilResistance: MOTUs basically never know anything about LP that #launchpad doesn't tell us
<EvilResistance> hmm
<ockham_> tumbleweed: would you mind taking a look at lp:~ockham-razor/unity-lens-bliss/distutils ?
<EvilResistance> i take it, though, with the publisher offline, its screwing up things for the alphas?
<EvilResistance> precise alphas*
<tumbleweed> broder: although, we can see crash bugs, which non-ubuntu-devs can't
<broder> what do you mean? alpha 1 has already been released. the next alpha isn't for a while
<tumbleweed> that's about it
<EvilResistance> meh
<EvilResistance> broder:  they said that with the publisher(s) down that it affects the Ubuntu repos for new packages, so i was curious and asked :P
<pcpratts> tumbleweed: my package works perfectly with dpkg.  but now I am debugging upgrading packages with apt
<tumbleweed> pcpratts: what are you doing that makes it not work with apt?
<cjwatson> EvilResistance: shouldn't be desperately long, I wouldn't worry about it
<pcpratts> tumbleweed: eh, not sure yet.  :)
<cjwatson> hours not days
<tumbleweed> pcpratts: dpkg-scanpackages makes an archive that apt can use (it's flat, doesn't have pools)
<EvilResistance> cjwatson:  since my pbuilder environment decided to explode, i'm kind of impatient ;P
<EvilResistance> cjwatson:  okay, so, say, before midnight (approx 5 hours)?
<pcpratts> tumbleweed: okay, I'll look into that
<cjwatson> EvilResistance: dunno, I'm guessing based on what sysadmins are saying, I wouldn't like to give a deadline for fear I'd be holding them to it
<EvilResistance> hm.
<EvilResistance> okay then.
 * EvilResistance impatiently waits for LP to fix the problem
<cjwatson> I don't particularly want to hassle them since it's clearly been a pretty stressful day in sysadmin land
<EvilResistance> heh
<tumbleweed> ockham_: there is'nt a debian directory
<cjwatson> the publisher is down to avoid causing further havoc, basically
<EvilResistance> cjwatson:  what about the builders?
<EvilResistance> a few hours ago all the amd64 virtual builders showed as disabled
<cjwatson> builders are still running
<ockham_> tumbleweed: um, yeah. i was asking about my autotools -> distutils conversion for now...
<EvilResistance> as did the un-used i386 builders
<cjwatson> that's something different
<EvilResistance> cjwatson:  they're the PPA builders
<EvilResistance> that's the issue :/
<cjwatson> yes I know
<tumbleweed> ockham_: you probably don't want to install the python bits as data_files, but as a module
<cjwatson> not sure what that's about; I suppose it could be connected to librarian breakage, as that takes out a very large swathe of Launchpad
<cjwatson> lots of builders being down does tend to trigger alerts, so it won't be forgotten
<ockham_> tumbleweed: yeah, i basically copied from other lenses. is there a more elegant way for /etc stuff, btw?
<tumbleweed> ockham_: in fact, I wouldn't try to put stuff into /etc wit hthe setup.py either
<cjwatson> tomorrow should be a better day :-)
<tumbleweed> some things are more cleanly done with dh_install
<tumbleweed> (you'd expect setup.py install to do something sane in a virtualenv)
<ockham_> tumbleweed: i was meaning to keep setup.py usable for upstream, so i figured i needed to take care of /etc stuff
<tumbleweed> ockham_: oh, and import * is very poor style
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-07
<ockham_> tumbleweed: the previous autotools based approach catered for that, too
<EvilResistance> is there any way to pass to backportpackage when it tries to extract the source package of <somepackage> to ignore the gpg key checks during extraction?
<ockham_> tumbleweed: oops, another copy&paste incident
<EvilResistance> because i'm doing backportpackage -s precise -d oneiric -w <dir> php5, and it won't extract the source
<cjwatson> Ah, apparently the publisher's about to come back on
<tumbleweed> EvilResistance: it should be ignoring the gpg signature
<EvilResistance> ah yeah, there it is
 * EvilResistance misread the error
<EvilResistance> cjwatson:  eta?
<EvilResistance> (assumign they told you)
<ockham_> tumbleweed: ok, fixed the import * part. is there any way I can take care of /etc in setup.py?
<cjwatson> EvilResistance: the publisher runs at *:03
<tumbleweed> ockham_: I wouldn't try to. setup.py is normally for installing a python module, its data, and possibly, at a push some manpages.
<cjwatson> EvilResistance: it currently takes around half an hour
<ockham_> tumbleweed: docs are ok, too?
<cjwatson> although I expect it will have a bit more to do this time round
<EvilResistance> cjwatson:  i'd assume so there were TONS of builds afaict :P
<tumbleweed> ockham_: if it's trying to put them in /usr/share/doc/$packagename, that's probably too debian-specific for setup.py
<cjwatson> Not radically more so than usual, I'd expect :-)
<EvilResistance> cjwatson:  the backlog of it, though... :P
<cjwatson> Oh, BTW, this is the distro publisher, I don't know about the PPA publisher
<EvilResistance> yeah the PPA publisher is my focus
<tumbleweed> EvilResistance: have you seen the armhf backlockg?
<ockham_> tumbleweed: uhm, what then?
<cjwatson> May well be coming back soon as well but it's on a different schedule.
<cjwatson> They were both disabled at the same time.
<cjwatson> I think the PPA publisher runs every five minutes rather than every hour.
<tumbleweed> ockham_: what then? bed time for me.
<EvilResistance> now on an entirely unrelated question, a company i work with wants to set up an apt repository for ubuntu, but doesnt want it to be an apt mirror.  i said i'd research getting it done, but not actually do it.  any of you know how i'd attack that problem?
<EvilResistance> or should I just go post on the ubuntuforums or whatnot
<ockham_> tumbleweed: ok.
<cjwatson> They should specify what they mean: a repository of add-ons to Ubuntu, or a private mirror of Ubuntu itself that isn't exposed to the world
<EvilResistance> well the way i understood their request is they dont want a mirror of Ubuntu at all
<EvilResistance> they want a repo that acts similar to what a PPA does: hold *additional* packages
<EvilResistance> stuff not already in the ubuntu main repos.
<cjwatson> OK.  There's a variety of packages for managing that kind of thing.  Names that come to mind are reprepro and mini-dinstall.
<cjwatson> reprepro seems the most popular at the moment, from what I've gathered.
<EvilResistance> for the sake of the actual server admins at this company, got any links to documentation/instructions for setting up and configuring?
<cjwatson> (Or it's possible to roll your own around apt-ftparchive, or try to set up something industrial-scale like dak or Launchpad - but I wouldn't advise either of those two)
<cjwatson> I do not, sorry.
<EvilResistance> not a problem
<EvilResistance> i assume google will turn up something :P
<cjwatson> reprepro seems to come with documentation in the package.
<EvilResistance> after a quick google i'm glad i'm just researching it, not the one actually *doing* the setup and config xD
<EvilResistance> although it would be JUST MY LUCK if I get told to set it up >.>
<cjwatson> Oh, I just found mini-buildd-rep as well, which is another option.
<cjwatson> They may also need to attach build servers to it.  sbuild/buildd is probably a sane choice, but there's mini-buildd-bld too.  (I have no idea of the latter's quality.)
<EvilResistance> isnt sbuild/buildd what lp builders use?
<EvilResistance> or something...
<cjwatson> LP builders use sbuild
<cjwatson> (Albeit currently a rather old fork)
<cjwatson> buildd is more or less what Debian builders run; Launchpad has its own build farm
<cjwatson> sbuild builds a single source package; since you're familiar with pbuilder already, pbuilder is more or less analogous to sbuild
<EvilResistance> pbuilder and sbuild are only slightly different, no?  the end result is a built package.
<cjwatson> EvilResistance: Right.
<cjwatson> pbuilder is slower for doing lots of builds, though, as it wants to unpack a tarball every time.  sbuild is more flexible.
<EvilResistance> could a private apt repository with addons be configured to use pbuilder over sbuild if they arent producing tons of packages/addons?
<EvilResistance> (see, if i explore every angle, then the company won't feel the need to say "Go Do More Research!" :P)
<cjwatson> I wouldn't see why you'd want to bother; but it's no doubt possible.  Whether any of them actually have a config knob for that I wouldn't know.
<cjwatson> I just upload to Debian or Ubuntu where somebody else manages this for me ;-)
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> yeah, but you're a MOTU, you have that right xD
<EvilResistance> standard users dont get that
<EvilResistance> and corporations/companies that want private repositories dont either :P
<cjwatson> sure, I wasn't being serious
<cjwatson> I'm told that publishers and builds are all back up
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> *all* publishers?
<cjwatson> so I'm told
<EvilResistance> yeah wgrant just changed the topic in #launchpad
<EvilResistance> :P
<micahg> cjwatson: in that case, I'll go poke about why the buildds aren't picking up builds :)
<cjwatson> There's still some build database trouble.
<micahg> ah, just saw comments in another channel
<cjwatson> Let wgrant work on it :-)
<wgrant> I think they'll resolve themselves in 15-20 minutes.
<wgrant> micahg: They're all security builds, I guess?
<wgrant> In a private PPA?
<micahg> wgrant: oh, that could be
<micahg> wgrant: I have no idea, didn't look, just saw the backlog on +builders
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> Private builds don't start until they're published, and there's a massive publisher backlog.
<EvilResistance> heh
<EvilResistance> so if i were to upload to a PPA a package, then its likely it wouldnt get published until sometime next year?
<EvilResistance> (figuratively speaking)
<wgrant> Hopefully it'll all clear up in about 20 minutes.
 * EvilResistance points at the word "hopefully"
<EvilResistance> ;P
<wgrant> The build queues might take another 6-7 hours.
<micahg> ah, I'm not in a rush for anything, was just curious
<EvilResistance> wgrant:  heh, i'm not in a rush either :P
<jtokarchuk> alpha or actual release? ;o on precise
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> morning
<l3on> hey guys.. can we take a look at bug 896695 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 792146 in clang (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #896695 clang canât link any programs: cannot find crt1.o, crti.o, crtn.o" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/792146
<l3on> it's solved, but set as duplicated of a discussion that doesn't see the end in the immediate future
<l3on> this is the url of bug â https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clang/+bug/896695
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 792146 in clang (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #896695 clang canât link any programs: cannot find crt1.o, crti.o, crtn.o" [Medium,Confirmed]
<handschuh> Hi, will there be a REVU-day in this month, or is there some rough schedule about when the next REVU day will be?
<geser> handschuh: probably never, REVU is on the way to get deprecated
<handschuh> geser: ok so whats the new way of getting packages into ubuntu? (or is it not decided yet?)
<geser> handschuh: the currently preferred way is to go through Debian and sync it to Ubuntu
 * ogra_ never saw revu as a tool to get packages into ubuntu ... its simply a easy tool to review packages, nothing more
<handschuh> geser: thank you for the information
<geser> it's still possible to get a package directly into Ubuntu if you find someone willing to do the review (e.g. from a team which is interested to get this package into Ubuntu)
<handschuh> so, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing#Preparing_New_Packages should be changed then
<Laney> wendar: are you working on adding the deprecation notice to revu?
<Laney> p.s. hi!
<mhall119> can someone help me?  I'm getting the following error on a python package using dh_python:
<mhall119>  /usr/bin/fakeroot debian/rules clean
<mhall119> dh clean --with python2
<mhall119> dh: unable to load addon python2: Can't locate Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/python2.pm in @INC
<mhall119> targetting lucid
<akheron> mhall119: I may be wrong but I think it requires debhelper 8
<cjwatson> it doesn't; but dh_python2 isn't in lucid yet
<Zhenech_> no, it needs python 2.6.something from debian or whenever you introduced it
<cjwatson> for now I'm afraid you have to fall back to python-{central,support} for lucid
<cjwatson> even though those are now deprecated
<mhall119> oh, ok
<mhall119> when I tried python-central and cdbs, it was putting my code in /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages
<mhall119> instead of /usr/share/pyshared/
<mhall119> and while dist-packages is on my path, site-packages is not
<Zhenech_> it should do links on install though
<pqatsi> Ive always used apt-pinning for "version blendings" and now this appear to do not work very well or concise. Ive tryed to ask in #ubuntu about this but the awnser i got is "precise isnt suported", but im blending versions for backporting development. Anyways, where i can find a information about how apt-pinning works for ubuntu?
<pqatsi> since even pinning using apt.conf/preferences.conf dont appear in apt policies and install packages using apt-get install xpto/precise marks for update from precise, but mantain higher priority for oineric
<pqatsi> (If a paste helps with my question: http://pastebin.com/ks0jz4L2)
<cjwatson> mhall119: python setup.py install --install-layout=deb
<cjwatson> although dh_auto_install should do that for you
<cjwatson> (dunno about cdbs, I avoid it)
<wendar> Laney: it's on my list for this week, yeah. But no worries if someone beats me to it. :)
<ockham_> is there any way to use the bash exclusion operator in debian/rules?
<ockham_> as in
<ockham_> cp source/!(not_this_file) target
<ockham_> i'm using the above in a loop, and get
<ockham_> /bin/sh: 3: Syntax error: "(" unexpected (expecting "done")
<ockham_> same stuff works when directly entered into a terminal
<Zhenech_> no
<Zhenech_> dont asume bash functionality
<ockham_> aww, to bad
<Zhenech_> sh != bash
<Zhenech_> and you want your package to build on machines w/o bash
<ockham_> is there any textbook example of excluding files in shell commands in debian/rules then?
<broder> tumbleweed: i'm finding your reverse-depends script/service to be incredibly useful, by the way
<tumbleweed> broder: glad to hear that :)
<Kiall> Has anyone had difficulty with cowbuilder-dist installing the wrong apt lines into the image? It always installs the host's distros lines
<tumbleweed> Kiall: hrm, that's the exact opposite of pbuilder-dist, which was always using archive.ubuntu.com
<Kiall> Well, it uses archive.ubuntu.com .. but always "oneiric" and never lucid or precise :)
<tumbleweed> that sounds problematic :P
<Kiall> Yea .. I've been scratching my head (on and off!) for a day or two  ;)
 * tumbleweed has never used cowbuilder, but I'd appreciate a bug report (and even better, a patch)
<Kiall> cowbuilder is basically pbuilder, but with cow rather than tgz images
<tumbleweed> right, but people are reporting bugs on it that we don't see with pbuilder
<Kiall> (cowbuilder basically just wraps pbuilder)
<tumbleweed> and cowbuilder-dist wraps cowbuilder :P
<Kiall> Yea ;)
<tumbleweed> in fact, investigation on any of these bugs would be welcome https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools?field.searchtext=cowbuilder-dist
<Kiall> tumbleweed: well, I've spotted why it always uses http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ â¦ Its hardcoded ;)
<tumbleweed> Kiall: we fixed that recently
<Kiall> ah, I guess that hasnt landed in oneiric yet so...
<tumbleweed> no, it won't
<tumbleweed> grab a daily build / the bzr branch if you want to fix bugs in it
<Kiall> Normally I'm up for that, but right now I need to get the CI server building packages right ;)
 * tumbleweed suggests sbuild for production use
<Kiall> may I ask why? (Other than personal preferences :P)
<tumbleweed> partly that, it's also what the buildds use
<Kiall> The LP builders?
<tumbleweed> it does a great job of building packages, out of the box
<tumbleweed> the LP builders run an ancient fork of sbuild, but that's hopefully going to be resolved soon
<Kiall> I'll have a look, any suggested docs/wiki pages etc? Looking at the debian wiki page for it now...
<tumbleweed> mk-sbuild makes it easy to set up
<Kiall> Thanks, Will have a look
<tumbleweed> here's something a little more manual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/BuildEnvironment
<tumbleweed> like cowbuilder, it doesn't use a tarball for each chroot
<tumbleweed> but it uses schroot, which is really handy for other things
<Kiall> tumbleweed: I think I'm onto something with the cowbuilder-dist issue
<Kiall> the command ran by (p|cow)builder-dist is something along these lines:
<Kiall> "... ARCH=amd64 DIST=precise cowbuilder ... --distribution precise .."
<Kiall> --distribution makes it work with pbuilder
<Kiall> but cowbuilder wants "DISTRIBUTION=.." rather than "DIST="
<tumbleweed> right, DISTRIBUTION is the variable pbuilder is actually going to use
<tumbleweed> DIST is what many people use to drive their .pbuilderrcs (but that's normally people not using pbuilder-dist)
<tumbleweed> e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Kiall> yea - but pbuilder/cowbuilder-dist use DIST, rather than DISTRIBUTION
<Kiall> and hence it gets ignored by cowbuilder
<tumbleweed> Kiall: what I'm saying is that that's partially intentional
<Kiall> but it works with pbuilder since pbuilder also understands the --distribution precise
<Kiall> Sure, I get that..
<tumbleweed> right, I'm sure there's no harm in setting DISTRIBUTION, but we may need to set DIST too, for people with existing pbuilderrcs
<Kiall> But - Currently, cowbuilder-dist does not provide the dist to cowbuilder using any method it understands, hence it is defaulting the the host's dist
<tumbleweed> yup, that I can understand
<Kiall> Humm - maybe I'm wrong, adding that aint helping
<psusi> so MOM says auto merge of a package failed... the instructions say you fix the merges, build the source package, then upload it ( with dput? )... how does bzr fit into this picture?  Are the MOM instructions just outdated and you should now do this with bzr?
<tumbleweed> most of the time, it's a lot easier to do a merge with MOM output than bzr
<tumbleweed> applied quilt patches make merging with bzr branches less fun than it should be
<psusi> indeed
<psusi> so if I do it the mom way, how won't that leave the lp bzr branch out of date?
<tumbleweed> the bzr branch will be updated by the importer, just like it would be for any other upload
<psusi> hrm... I thought the importer updated the debian branch, but the ubuntu one you just push to and the archive auto imports from that?
<cjwatson> it does both
<cjwatson> if there's a commit on the Ubuntu branch with a tag matching the upload it wants to import then it leaves it alone
<cjwatson> if there's a commit after the last tag on the Ubuntu branch then it imports the new upload but moves the commit aside to a new branch and files a merge proposal for it
<cjwatson> otherwise it imports the new upload
<psusi> cool.. so if I use grab-merge and fix it up... I can't dput it, so... what do I do then?
<cjwatson> attach a debdiff to a bug; current Debian -> your merge is probably the best one although some people also attach current Ubuntu -> your merge
<broder> i like to look at current ubuntu -> merge | filterdiff -i '*/debian/*', but i consider that sufficiently advanced technique that i don't expect it from sponsorees
<cjwatson> You can construct either one from the other anyway, so :)
<cjwatson> (well, from the other plus archives)
<pcpratts> hey everyone.  my config script is being executed twice during an apt-get install
<pcpratts> any ideas why?
<EvilResistance> what the heck is with the php source package in precise being dependent on a precise-only version of mysql-client :/
<tumbleweed> pcpratts: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html
<pcpratts> tumbleweed: again, you saved the day!  thanks!
<pcpratts> thanksssssssssssssss!
<tumbleweed> there's a graphical version somewhere...
<tumbleweed> there http://wiki.debian.org/MaintainerScripts
<pcpratts> ooo.  even easier!
<psusi> hrm... actually, just doing the bzr merge works like a charm
<tumbleweed> psusi: please use bzr merge-package not merge
<tumbleweed> otherwise it can miss out metadata that'll confuse the importer (and other users) later
<psusi> what's that do?
<psusi> otherwise it works the same way?
<tumbleweed> yes
<psusi> hrm... ok
<psusi> thank god for packages that don't already have the quilt patches applied in bzr ;)
<pcpratts> I love open source
<pcpratts> my config script to prompt the user with debconf is called twice: once when the screen says: Preconfiguring packages and again when the screen says Setting up package
<cjwatson> yes, that's intended
<cjwatson> your config script must be idempotent - that is, if called twice it must behave as if it were called once, and it must not re-ask questions (which generally means you shouldn't force questions to the unseen state)
<pcpratts> cjwatson: I am prompting the user twice.  my config says:
<pcpratts> case "$1" in
<pcpratts>     configure)
<pcpratts> oh okay
<pcpratts> yeah, I see now
<pcpratts> where should I reset the dbconf variables?
<pcpratts> anywhere?
<pcpratts> debconf*
<cjwatson> the reason it is this way is to allow preconfiguration without actually requiring it
<cjwatson> as a general rule, you shouldn't
<pcpratts> okay
<pcpratts> thanks
<cjwatson> why do you want to?  there are sometimes exceptions, but you must be careful
<pcpratts> eh, when I was debugging I wanted to make sure I could type it in everytime I did dpkg -i
<pcpratts> but it probably doesn't matter now
<cjwatson> use debconf-communicate
<cjwatson> echo RESET your/question/name | sudo debconf-communicate your-package-name
<cjwatson> (NOT in your maintainer script, but from a terminal while debugging)
<cjwatson> so yeah, it sounds like you should just omit the reset in your config script and then you'll be good
<pcpratts> :) thanks.  yep, just read not in your maintainer script
<pcpratts> yeah I think so
<psusi> how often is harvest supposed to update?
<broder> much more frequently than it is
<broder> (which appears to currently be never)
<broder> i keep meaning to bug dholbach to get him to bug canonical IS about it
<psusi> yea, I just found an entry that should have been removed back in july...
<psusi> how do you get bzr bd to pass options like -us -uc to builddeb?
<broder> -- -us -uc
<jtaylor> bzr bd -- -us -uc
<psusi> ahh
<psusi> wait a second... why does bzr bd leave me with a .tar.bz2 instead of a .diff.bz2?
<psusi> the ubuntu/debian changes relative to the orig tarball should be in a diff shouldn't they?
<jtaylor> debian.tar.bz2?
<psusi> yea
<jtaylor> thats how the diff is called with 3.0 pacakges
<psusi> ugh
<psusi> damn... seems to break debdiff
<jtaylor> in what way?
<psusi> it claims there are no differences
<psusi> ohh, wait, works when I give it the .dsc files instead of the .changes ;)
<philipballew> Who would I talk to about an outdated package?
<jtaylor> depends on the package
<philipballew> jtaylor, kismet. Its like 4 years old in the repos and the dev's are hoping this can be fixed
<jtaylor> hm looks like it needs a new maintainer in debian
<philipballew> exactly. Is there anything that we can do here?
<philipballew> also the kismet dev makes a deb for you to add to the repos but its not debian rules friendly
<philipballew> http://www.kismetwireless.net/download.shtml
<jtaylor> interested in taking of the package maintenance yourself?
<philipballew> I can, I am really crappy at packaging however. but I am trying to learn all that. I downloaded and am going to be reading the ubuntu packaging guide soon
<philipballew> over christmas break I can learn packaging
<philipballew> well I already know how to package. I just need to make myself more comfortable with advanced packages
<jtaylor> thats good, best you get involved in debian and try to find a sponsor there, ubuntu will automatically get the new package
<tumbleweed> philipballew: I queried the maintainers status in the MIA database. The MIA team is aware that he's inactive
<tumbleweed> I think it's fairly NMUable
<philipballew> jtaylor, whats the best way to do that?
<philipballew> tumbleweed, Thank you. i think I will try to see if I can get this in by lts
<jtaylor> #debian-mentors and mentors mailing list are good places for information if you have any technical issues just ask there or in #ubuntu-packaging
<jtaylor> if you can get the package in a team it usually makes sponsoring easier
<pcpratts> I took out db_fset variable seen false in most places from my config.  now installation works on the first time.  after a remove and install again, things fail with exit status 30.  the way I can revert back to it working again is to do: dpkg --purge --force-remove-reinstreq <package_name>
<EvilResistance> how do i figure out what source package provides certain binaries?
<EvilResistance> a search on LP?
<philipballew> jtaylor, thats in irc.debian.net right?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: right, but hijacking a package into a team is probably going a little far for an NMU :P (and I can't think of any relevant teams)
<jtaylor> EvilResistance: apt-cache show package | grep Source
<pcpratts> EvilResistance: packages.ubuntu.com ?
<lifeless> EvilResistance: apt-cache show <binary> will report the source package name
<EvilResistance> lifeless:  thanks
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: no upload in 3 years known mia isn't that enough for an hijack?
<pcpratts> regarding my previous question: I solved it.  thanks.
<pcpratts> I think I had an infinite loop if the password confirmation was not right
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: the hijack process is to announce that you are planning on hijacking before you hijack: http://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/removals (if someone wants to file such a bug, that'd be awesome)
<EvilResistance> should i be worried about these broken pipe errors being thrown whilst using backportpackage ?  http://pastebin.com/feqRTmS6
<psusi> someone said earlier I should use bzr merge-package instead of merge, but it doesn't seem to be smart enough to deapply quilt patches before the merge, and won't take --force to do the merge after I manually deapply them... how can I work around this?
<tumbleweed> psusi: I know there are scripts out there to make it less painful, but don't know where offhand
<tumbleweed> bug 845860 says barry was going ot write something...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 845860 in Ubuntu Packaging Guide "merge-package discussion doesn't discuss coping with quilt" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/845860
<psusi> hrm.. so there's no way to avoid the bogus deapply/reapply commits in the history?
<tumbleweed> yah, that seems like a horrible solution
<tumbleweed> I recall a better one
 * psusi wonders why --lca isn't the default
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-08
<Resistance> is there a way for me to specify to the computer to *not* update a package if the package update does not originate from the main repos?
<broder> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#Configuring_Backports_for_Manual_Install walks through the general idea of the process
<broder> i don't know any way to do it for all archives
<broder> but you can list them out
<broder> if you run apt-cache policy you'll see a bunch of "v=blah,o=blah,etc" strings; you can steal bits and pieces of those for the preferences file
<Resistance> broder:  #ubuntu-server gave me a link to apt pinning
<Resistance> broder:  could, in theory, if i want to pin php5* to *not* update unless it comes from the ubuntu archives/repos (i.e. us.archive.ubuntu.com), would the pinning work, and not update php* from the ppa?
<Resistance> (as you can tell, i'm trying to backport php5, but i dont want to update in the production environment yet, only in dev/testing)
<broder> the Package: field in a preferences file can only be a list of package names or "*"
<broder> no php5* or anything
<Resistance> hm
<Resistance> oh i know
<Resistance> *grabs the list of binaries generated by the backported source*(
<Resistance> :P
<broder> why are you configuring the PPA if you don't want packages from it?
<Resistance> broder:  the PPA is already configured
<Resistance> it holds *all* my backports
<Resistance> just...
<Resistance> this one system i dont want to update php5 yet
<Resistance> (I eventually will after i run vigorous testing)
<broder> you could stage in another PPA then pocket-copy the packages later
<Resistance> i could
 * Resistance will consider that
<Resistance> actually i'll do that now assumign lp lets me
<Resistance> broder:  within LP, i can copy the package source and have it rebuilt, or just copy the binaries.  if i want to copy stuff from staging ppa -> deployment ppa, i wouldnt need to copy/rebuild the source, if its a <release> -> <samerelease> copy, right?
<broder> correct
<Resistance> because staging would technically be the building environment, and the copied binaries would be sufficient?
<broder> yes
<Resistance> ah good
<Resistance> thanks
 * Resistance never thought to have one ppa for staging and one for deployment :p
<psusi> why can't I bzr diff against the debian branch I just merged from?
<psusi> bzr diff . ../sid
<psusi> bzr: ERROR: Path "/home/psusi/gparted/sid" is not a child of path "/home/psusi/gparted/ubuntu"
<broder> bzr diff --from ../sid --to .
<psusi> no such option : --from
<psusi> ahh, --old and --new
<Laney> morning
<ajmitch> morning mr Laney
<Laney> ow do?
<ajmitch> just uploaded a package to my PPA, 9h build queue :(
<Laney> ouch
<ajmitch> LP had some hardware issues to cause a bit of a backlog
<ajmitch> what fun are you up to today?
<Laney> oral exams for undergrads
<ajmitch> oh joy
<keffie_jayx_> hello all
<keffie_jayx_> I am working on a daily-build ppa
<keffie_jayx_> should I ask about it here or #launchpad
<keffie_jayx_> I was wondering what happens to debian/changelog  when the merging of to branches happens. My guess it is not used at all
<geser> keffie_jayx_: you might have better chances to get answers about recipes in #launchpad
<keffie_jayx_> thans
<andzaytsev> Hello, can anybody help me to find support? I want to participate in Ubuntu by packaging. Where can I find a mentor or a person who can teach me?
<tumbleweed> andzaytsev: we don't have a mentoring program, but you're welcome to ask questions here whenever you need to
<andzaytsev> thank you, how can I start learning packaging?
<tumbleweed> have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted ?
<tumbleweed> I suggest playing around, and trying to fix some bugs
<gnomefreak> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<andzaytsev> thanks
<andzaytsev> and where can I learn to write patches?
<Laney> dang, no dholbach
<wendar> I'm editing the docs on REVU, anyone got a sec for a quick sanity check?
<Laney> wendar: yeah sure
<Laney> the tone should be like "you can use it, but make sure you have a reviewer lined up beforehand because MOTU will probably not give you one"
<wendar> for the MOTU process, I'm substituting "upload to your PPA or a Launchpad branch" instead of "upload to REVU"
<wendar> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<wendar> Laney: sounds good, will add that
<Laney> could you just link to http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/packaging-new-software.html ?
<wendar> in fact, I did
<wendar> but, only for the "Launchpad branch"
<Laney> that page misses all of the information about debian
<Laney> I don't really think "Going through MOTU" is going to produce happiness
<wendar>  * Once you have an initial package, follow the [[http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/packaging-new-software.html#next-steps|New Packaging instructions]] to upload it to your PPA or a Launchpad branch, then add a link to the package in the description of the bug. Requests for changes or other communication about your package will be made as comments on your bug.
<wendar> Laney: the developer.ubuntu.com page, or the "NewPackages" page?
<Laney> the former
<Laney> I mean in that it can't replace the wiki page completely yet
<Laney> because not all of the information there is ported over
<wendar> yeah, agreed
<Laney> anyway, we should be wary about directing people into black holes
<ScottK> Is developer.ubuntu.com for the development OF Ubuntu or development ON Ubuntu?
<Laney> it's due to be renamed to something like the ubuntu developers guide
<Laney> so, the former
<ScottK> Well I thought the problem it was supposed to solve was the latter one.
<wendar> later down the doc, I'm moving the "two MOTUs advocate the package" from the "alternative workflows" section into the main steps for the package
<wendar> as, it seems like useful information
<wendar> and, I'm deleting the rest of alternative workflows, which was largely just a warning that you should always use REVU
<wendar> (which isn't true anymore)
<Laney> yep
<Laney> "Deadline" needs refreshing too
<wendar> got it. refresh page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<Laney> cool
<wendar> next up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Laney> The references to Debian in that section kind of come out of nowhere imo
<Laney> and it still has the black hole problem
<Laney> "come spam on #ubuntu-motu (but be prepared to justify why you can't upload to Debian)"
<wendar> yeah, it kind of needs the same reversal as the NewPackages page
<wendar> promoting Debian first
<Laney> I was talking about NewPackages :P
<wendar> Laney: I've reworked the first bits on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<wendar> strongly pointing them off to Debian with sync to Ubuntu
<wendar> then MOTU via PPA/Launchpad branch
<wendar> and suggesting to use REVU only if a mentor asks them to
<tumbleweed> I suspect that still isn't strong enough
<tumbleweed> there are a fair number of people who "don't want to contribute to Debian, I want to contribute to Ubuntu"
<wendar> so, we need to put in the explanation that contributing to Debian *is* contributing to Ubuntu, because it benefits Ubuntu
<wendar> (as well as a pile of other derivatives)
<tumbleweed> yeah, and make it clearer that submitting through MOTU isn't going to be easy because there is a shortage of reviewers
<tumbleweed> although it is a bit of an intentional shortage...
<wendar> Laney: so, back to NewPackages, should we make it stronger towards Debian too?
 * tumbleweed now has to run off to a pub quiz. Thanks for doing this, wendar.
<wendar> how much of this process is still relevant/actively used? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages#Going_through_MOTU
<wendar> is it basically accurate, and we just want to encourage people to do Debian first
<wendar> or, opposite extreme, do we want to remove it from the page?
<wendar> or, middle-ground, move it to a separate page, and just provide a link here for "well, if you *have* to submit it to Ubuntu..."
<Laney> wendar: it looks right, just needs discouraging
<Laney> Unless you have a really good reason, do not do this
<Laney> it should also direct people to this channel for reviews
<wendar> Laney: how's this for the second step of the MOTU workflow
<wendar>  * Join the #ubuntu-motu channel on irc.freenode.net and talk with the MOTU. It's good to do this early on, to get advice on how to package (avoid common mistakes), to find out if your package is likely to be accepted (before you invest a lot of work in packaging it), and to find a mentor or mentors willing to sponsor your package.
<Laney> "and to find mentors willing to sponsor your package or to point you in the right direction"
<wendar> Laney: good, better, updated
<wendar> oh, I'm going to move that to the first step
<wendar>  before filing a bug
<wendar> I also added a little paragraph to the beginning of "Going through MOTU"
<wendar> Submitting new packages through Debian is the preferred path. But, if your package is Ubuntu-specific or can't go into Debian for some other reason, you can submit it directly to MOTU. There are a limited number of available reviewers, so you may encounter delays here.
<wendar> this page looks like it's on the way toward deletion, may not be worth editiing out REVU https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Launchpad/Guide
<Laney> going climbing, pick it up later
<Laney> bye!
<wendar> Laney: thanks!
<wendar> interesting question where to put a notice on REVU itself. In theory, somewhere prominent in the submission process... but that's just dput.
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: wrap-and-sort needs a change for the new dh_install feature
<jtaylor> ignore executable .install files
<broder> wendar: you could possibly try to figure out how LP does their feedback on dput, but that might be too much work
<wendar> broder: my first stab is to put a little red text blurb in the header for the whole site, so every page says:
<wendar> REVU is no longer the primary path for submitting new packages for Ubuntu, though it is still used by some mentors as a tool to assist in package reviews. If your mentor hasn't specifically requested you to submit your package here as part of an ongoing review, please follow the new package instructions instead.
<wendar> I've got that in a branch of the revu code, which I'll submit to the revu-hackers
<wendar> (where "new package instructions" is a link to the page we just edited)
<broder> that lgtm, though i'm less opinionated on the exact form the text should take than others
<broder> fwiw, it looks like lp's ftp daemon is returning a 500-something error in response to the .changes file being uploaded, and dput is printing out the text of that error
<wendar> broder: ah, cool. I found some "rejection" text in some of the revu scripts. I may be able to add onto that for "accepted" packages too. Probably need to ask a revu-hacker the best way to do it.
<RainCT> wendar: check RVU
<RainCT> *REVU
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: right, thanks for the poke
<blair> debian just got llvm-3.0 and boost 1.48, these are brand new packages with new names, will these be automatically synced to ubuntu or should i submit sync requests?
<jtaylor> blais: ubuntu precise already has llvm 3
<blair> jtaylor, ok, i was looking in main, found it in universe
<blair> what has a package in universe get "promoted" (if that's the right word) to main?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: the trivial solution: http://paste.debian.net/148644/
<blair> boost1.46 has packages in main and universe, so a single source package can have it's binary packages in both locations?
<ajmitch> yes, you can have source packages in main build packages for universe
<blair> ajmitch, thanks, looking through debian/, i don't see where that's set, is it set outside the package?
<ajmitch> yeah, promotions to main are done on LP by archive admins, iirc
<blair> any advice on working with a non-responsive debian maintainer?  i've submitted a patch to update the rbtools package to debian that i'm hoping will be synced to ubuntu for 12.04
<ScottK> blair: After Debian Import Freeze, if it's not in Debian, feel free to ping me and I'll look at sponsoring it for Ubuntu.
<blair> ScottK, thanks, I appreciate it
<psusi> I thought there was a line in the control file somewhere that specified the source format, but I can't find it now... what tells dpkg this is a 3.0 (quilt) package?
<ajmitch> psusi: a file named debian/source/format
<psusi> I'm not seeing that anywhere...
<ajmitch> for which package?
<psusi> does that mean the packages I'm working on are older than that, even though they are using quilt?
<ajmitch> yes, you can have a 1.0 package using quilt itself, rather than relying on dpkg to handle it
<psusi> dmraid
<psusi> hrm... I wonder if I should update it
<psusi> ok, next question... why does debuild thing this is a native package?
<ajmitch> no matching orig.tar.gz for the version in debian/changelog?
<Ampelbein> psusi: Because the version isnt written as upstream-XubuntuY?
<psusi> ohh, is it because I used -0ubuntu1?
<ajmitch> psusi: depends, what's the full version in debian/changelog & what's your tarball named?
<psusi> wtf?  I had it finding it earlier... hrm..
<psusi> tarball is dmraid_1.0.0.rc16.3.orig.tar.bz2, changelog ver is 1.0.0.rc16.3-0ubuntu1
<ajmitch> right, tar.bz2
<psusi> ?
 * ajmitch tries to remember if that's allowed with source format 1.0
<psusi> ohh, crap... probably not
<ajmitch> I had that problem last night
<ScottK> It's not.
<psusi> hrm.. wonder how hard it would be to convert this to 3.0
<ajmitch> probably not very hard, but it'd be an additional delta from debian
<ajmitch> though dmraid is orphaned there
<Laney> evening
<ajmitch> hi Laney
<Laney> alright?
<ajmitch> still waiting on a ppa build I uploaded before I went to bed last night :)
<ajmitch> the build queue is growing, too
<Laney> some hardware was borrowed afaik
<ajmitch> there are a couple of kernel builds & a firefox daily build on i386 ppa builders at the moment
<ajmitch> they should be killed off :P
<psusi> oh, it is?  well that explains some things
<stgraber> ajmitch: link to your build?
<ajmitch> stgraber: sorry?
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/~ajmitch/+archive/ppa/+build/2993935
<stgraber> ajmitch: if you give me the link to your build that's still pending, I can bump it a bit to go before all the daily build stuff
<ajmitch> thanks, though it probably doesn't have too much longer to go
<ajmitch> with my luck I'll need to upload a fixed version once it fails
<stgraber> ajmitch: indeed, a small bump improved things quite a bit (down to a minute now)
<ajmitch> thanks
<Laney> tech board powah
 * ajmitch did have an offer before to have it rescored to -1
<ajmitch> that's probably because I told him that it was php that I was building
<Laney> O_O
<bdrung> tumbleweed: solution for what?
<stgraber> Laney: yeah :) I try not to abuse it too much, though when you want some work done and don't want to break the main archive, rescoring or asking someone to rescore is usually fine :)
<ajmitch> stgraber: it is appreciated, anyway :)
<astraljava> Anyone have a clue? http://paste.ubuntu.com/764336/
<psusi> so I came up with an interesting way to deal with quilt problems doing bzr merge-package... I did the merge, then passed the quilt patch to patch -R, replaced the quilt pristine files with the current files, then ran the quilt patch through patch again, then quilt could cleanly pop it
<ajmitch> astraljava: a possible conflict between 1.42 & 1.46 there?
<ajmitch> though boost versions are meant to be parallel-installable afaik
<astraljava> ajmitch: Yeah. And the weird part is that version dependency, which looks like being a perfect match.
<ajmitch> astraljava: there's an explicit Conflicts: libboost1.42-dev  on libboost1.46-dev
<astraljava> ajmitch: Right. But no 1.42 packages are installed.
<ajmitch> but you're trying to install one
<astraljava> ajmitch: And it says libboost1.46-dev is not going to be installed, but I _could_ install it separately.
<astraljava> ajmitch: Cr*p. So I am.
<astraljava> Sorry for the noise.
<ajmitch> no problem
<astraljava> Yes, I see what the problem was. Blind c&p from the apt-cache search listing.
<ScottK> The runtime boost packages are co-installable, but the -dev ones aren't.
<ajmitch> ScottK: right, for some reason I thought they were installed into a versioned path
<Resistance> question regarding backportpackage... its signing the changelog with user@computerhostname, rather than User <Email>.  How can I tell it to always use a specific name and a specific email address
<Resistance> rather than using myUser@mySystem
<broder> set DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL
<Resistance> broder:  env-vars?
<broder> yes
<Resistance> (as in, set via .bashrc or something?)
<broder> yes
<Resistance> ok
<Resistance> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-09
<tumbleweed> bdrung: native sync sponsorship landed this morning. u-d-t upload time
<Laney> sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
 * micahg must have missed some mails
<Laney> all on the bug
<Laney> boo, none in the queue
<tumbleweed> there's no visual indication yet
<tumbleweed> I did two syncs in oneiric on qastaging (one sponsored), but they both show up as me in the queue
<DktrKranz> could you please tell me which bug #, so I can give it a read?
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/827555
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 827555 in Launchpad itself "native syncs have no way to indicate sponsorship" [Critical,In progress]
<DktrKranz> ty
<Laney> if you want you can sync pdfmod -s laney and see how that turns out
 * Laney shower
<elgaton> micahg: Hi again
<micahg> hi elgaton
<elgaton> micahg: Thanks for reviewing the bug - I'm creating the new debdiff that just fixes the missing dependency. I've got two questions: 1) Do I still need to edit the Maintainer field? 2) Should I use version number 1.2.10.0-0ubuntu2.5 (to mark the fact that some minor edits I made in the Precise version are not there) instead of 1.2.10.0-0ubuntu3?
<elgaton> (For reference: it's bug #877776)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 877776 in openbve (Ubuntu Oneiric) "openbve does not depend on the required package libmono-i18n4.0-all" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877776
<micahg> elgaton: yeah, update-maintainer is fine, version should be 1.2.10.0-0ubuntu2.1
<elgaton> micahg: OK, so I'll just leave the other debian/control and debian/rules out - thanks again, I'm new at patching :)
<micahg> elgaton: thanks for your work, it's not a problem
<micahg> ugh, openbve is yet another Ubuntu package not in Debian...
<elgaton> I know (had a look at Debian's repos before submitting the original fix)
<micahg> Laney: would openbve be something for cli-mono?
<Laney> micahg: yes, I tried to see if sladen was interested in that
<elgaton> OK, patch done
 * Elbrus is wondering how long it takes before a package in Debian is automatically synced to Precise (we are far from DebianImportFreeze)
<Laney> Elbrus: we are syncing from testing, so shortly after it arrives there
<Elbrus> Laney: ok, but in the past we synced from testing and even experimental. Is that different for LTS?
<Laney> I assume you mean unstable, and yes the default is different but we can still sync from there if needed
<Laney> (experimental syncs always work like that)
 * Elbrus ment unstable yes.
<Elbrus> Should this difference be mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianImportFreeze?
<Elbrus> (question mark shouldn't have been in the url)
<Laney> we have LTSDebianImportFreeze on the wiki too, so either link to that or fix that page to not say "unstable" at all
<Elbrus> Mainly the link in PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule should be changed then.
<Elbrus> But I am asked at the top of that page to not change the page.
<Laney> I'll get it sorted, thanks for pointing it out
<tumbleweed> Laney: tested a sync yet?
<Laney> nope
<Laney> do pdfmod with me if you like
<tumbleweed> ok
 * Laney checks it builds :P
<tumbleweed> haven't managed to do it yet
<Laney> seems to work
<tumbleweed> at university, where connectivity is ... interesting...
<tumbleweed> you saying it's been synced?
<Laney> so, what do we expect? mail to me and you and -changes mail saying my name?
<Laney> no, builds
<tumbleweed> ah, good, didn't check that :P
<Laney> we can do it the other way round if that would be easier
<tumbleweed> no, doing it now
<tumbleweed> tsocks ftw
<Laney> k
<tumbleweed> done
<Laney> hrm
<Laney> it does appear on my synchronised packages
<Laney> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/precise-changes/2011-December/004614.html
<Laney> looks good
<tumbleweed> LGTM
<Laney> did you get mail?
<tumbleweed> yes
 * tumbleweed cuts an upload
<Laney> i did not
<Laney> do you agree that i should have?
<tumbleweed> please poke bigjools about that
<tumbleweed> yes, you should have
<Laney> rock
 * micahg also just filed bug 902107 which is tangentially related
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 902107 in Launchpad itself "Uploader/Sponsor information for native syncs is missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/902107
<Laney> yeah I'm pretty sure that is known
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/861488
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 861488 in Launchpad itself "Mention sync requester on package version page" [High,Triaged]
<micahg> Laney: thanks
<Laney> tumbleweed: how backportable is this?
<Laney> could do with being announced but it should be in a stable release first
<sladen> micahg: Laney: yeah, sorry
<sladen> micahg: Laney: (re: openbve)
<tumbleweed> Laney: I'll investigate backportability. There are some bits of recent ubuntu-dev-tools that depend on recent distro-info, so they may have to be backported together
<bdrung> tumbleweed: only sponsor-patch should use the new sponsorship stuff now
<tumbleweed> bdrung: ah, right, sorry, didn't wait for that
<tumbleweed> that's a relatively easy patch, too
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i am happy to review it :)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: the patch I waved at you last night was for not sorting .install files when they are executable (see debian-devel recently...)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ah ok. .install being an executable is a very, very stupid idea
<tumbleweed> most people seem to agree on that
<tumbleweed> maybe this will go away before the next devscripts upload :P
<bdrung> tumbleweed: let's wait for a final decision on that and then apply your patch
<tumbleweed> well, it's already out in the wild, but yes, there is backlash
 * tumbleweed hopes the people who use it will sort their scripts :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we somehow need to punish people who are using the new .install scripts ;)
<l3on> Hi all... Where can I find instruction to make a removal request ?
<tumbleweed> l3on: it's largey common sense
<l3on> Ah ok :)
<tumbleweed> check reverse dependencies (there's a tool for that in recent ubuntu-dev-tools), and file a bug againts the package
<tumbleweed> subscribe ubuntu-sponsors like usual
<tumbleweed> if it needs to be blacklisted, say that too
<l3on> tumbleweed, thanks a lot
<l3on> I'm running this:
<l3on> $ reverse-build-depends gtk-led-askpass
<l3on> but..
<l3on> reverse-build-depends: unable to find sources files.
<l3on> Did you forget to run apt-get update (or add --update to this command)? at /usr/bin/reverse-build-depends line 236.
<l3on> okok, cache is updated
<l3on> oh god, yes.. by default it looks for precise
<l3on> and I don't have deb-src entry for precise in my repo!
<l3on> :)
<l3on> broder, bug 896902 updated as you said in comment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 896902 in gtk-led-askpass (Ubuntu) "Requesting removal of source package `gtk-led-askpass' from Ubuntu" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/896902
<tumbleweed> l3on: I was talking about reverse-depends. You want to check for reverts dependencies and build dependencies
<tumbleweed> l3on: btw, removals that happened in debian don't need to be requested in Ubuntu
<psusi> so if I want to convert a 1.0 package that is already using quilt to 3.0 (quilt), I just have to drop all the quilt stuff from debian/rules, since dpkg-source already applies them?
<tumbleweed> psusi: is it your package?
<tumbleweed> (we don't make changes like that to debian packages)
<psusi> it's abandoned in debian and I'm attemping to overhaul it to the new upstream release ( well, a year old, debian didn't update the last 3 releases beacuse they put a -3 in the upstream version ), and so I'm trying to convert it to 3.0 in the process and have a sponsor upload it
<psusi> err, orphaned
<tumbleweed> yay
<tumbleweed> yup, drop all the quilt stuff from rules
<tumbleweed> and the README.source, if it talks about quilt
<psusi> k
<psusi> that leads me to another question... it also was being maintained in git.. I can't find mention of Vcs-Git: in the debian policy manual
<psusi> I'm thinking I want to drop that header?
<tumbleweed> IIRC it's in another document. dev-ref?
<tumbleweed> no, you want to keep it
<tumbleweed> psusi: do you have access to its git repo?
<psusi> no
<tumbleweed> is it in collab-maint?
<psusi> it is git://git.debian.org/git/users/derevko-guest/dmraid.git
<tumbleweed> ah, a personal git repo
<psusi> yea... of the previous maintainer that orphaned it...
<tumbleweed> I suggest applying for collab-maint membership, and hosting the repo there
<psusi> hrm... what advantage is there to keeping it in git?
<tumbleweed> well, presumably it already has git history
<psusi> some... but it's not like it's imported the upstream history
<tumbleweed> git seems to be the most popular VCS in debian these days, but yes, you can use anything
<psusi> just the debianization of the package and 2 patches
<tumbleweed> not importing upstream history is fairly common
<psusi> so what do you gain keeping it in git?  do they have a system that auto builds the source package when you push to the git repo or something?
<tumbleweed> what are you proposing? not keeping it in a VCS at all?
<psusi> yea
 * tumbleweed much prefers having my packages in VCS
<tumbleweed> it means I don't need to upload them for every tiny tweak
<psusi> well, lp will import it into bzr ;)
<tumbleweed> I can just collect those up, and upload when I'm ready
<broder> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-vcs by the way
<tumbleweed> + you can collaborate with others
<Laney> diffing becomes much easier, blame works
 * Laney forgot about the cake
<Laney> first class++
<tumbleweed> yeah, a package is not that different to code, right? And who wouldn't use a VCS for that?
<tumbleweed> anything of any importance on my machine is in VCS (or should be, but I haven't got around to it yet)
<psusi> lp will auto import it into bzr though and if I mostly work with that, then is there any advantage to having a git repo as well for the debian version?
<psusi> ohh, you get more history granularity than released versions?
<tumbleweed> if you are maintaing it in Debian, you'll probably not find yourself using the UDD branches much
<psusi> which is all you get with the bzr auto importer right?
<psusi> hrm...
<tumbleweed> yes, you can have as much granularity as you want
<Laney> if you're used to bzr then you can use that
 * tumbleweed has packages in Debian, in bzr
 * Laney sprinkles the holy water
<psusi> I'm fairly abidexterous... most of the upstreams I work with use git, like the kernel...
<psusi> I think I like git a little better, but they are pretty close
<tumbleweed> yeah, they have different advantages
<psusi> my kernel git repo has half a dozen remotes and several local branches that consist of various merges of the remotes and local patches, hehe
<Laney> vcs-pkg.org is interesting
<Laney> if you like that kind of thing
<psusi> it would be nice to use git to maintain the package and import the full git hisotry from upstream, but alas... upstream for dmraid is still using CVS!
 * tumbleweed feels for them
<psusi> gag me with a spoon
<oxullo> Dear MOTUs, I'm humbly seeking for answers which I fear I couldn't find on ubuntu docs. Since natty I have 5 packages ready for upload. They're python-based multitouch games. I tried to follow the REVU path for oneiric and now I updated the packages for precise, but I'm deceived by the message towering on the REVU pages headers, claiming that REVU is not any longer a preferred path for new packages. What I'm going to do is to upload the pac
<oxullo> files to the single bug entries and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors. Is this the correct way? thanks in advance
<oxullo> bug entries: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/735782 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/735760 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/735764 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/735773 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/735777
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 735782 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Sponc" [Wishlist,In progress]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 735760 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] GeneaTD" [Wishlist,In progress]
<tumbleweed> as you might have noticed, people don't look at REVU so much, looking for new packages
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 735764 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Magictouch" [Wishlist,In progress]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 735773 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] TROff" [Wishlist,In progress]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 735777 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Multitet" [Wishlist,In progress]
<oxullo> indeed..
<tumbleweed> reviewing new packages is harder than reviewing most other uploads
<tumbleweed> and lots of packages end up in universe, with nobody caring for them
<tumbleweed> so, there isn't much motivation to add to that...
<tumbleweed> OTOH, if going through debian isn't an option, we can review those
 * tumbleweed must still reply to your mail...
<psusi> so solibs normally have foo1.0.0 as the lib and foo1 symlinks to foo1.0.0.  I'm getting warnings now about the symbols check, and it seems to be because before the lib was 1.0.0rc16, and now it is just 1.0.0.  Was that an error the way it was done before? or should the rc16 part be in there?
<Laney> For games, there is a combined debian-ubuntu games team. I believetheir channel is #debian-games on OFTC
<oxullo> well, the problem with debian is that these games are based on xi 2.1 or mtdev
<oxullo> AFAIK debian has no support for them yet
<oxullo> or, at least, this was the reason, at natty's time, to push them directly to ubuntu
<Laney> looks like they are both in Debian now :-)
<Laney> oh, 'add xi 2.1 support', don't know about that
<tumbleweed> so, your best bet here is probably the sponsorship queue
<tumbleweed> it does seem to work rather well for new packages
<tumbleweed> of course, if you have existing sponsor-relationships with people, exploit them :P
<oxullo> The packages have been reviewed eons ago by Chase Douglas, who showed me the path to the packaging madness :) but I'm sure he's hell of busy now
<tumbleweed> it'd be nice if they ended up in debian eventually
<oxullo> laney: are they supported, then? in this case I might think to change focus to debian..
<oxullo> there's an additional point,though: these games depend on python-libavg, which has been recently removed from debian due to obsolescence
<tumbleweed> can always be re-added
<oxullo> so basically the best option from the ubuntu perspective is always to get the packages to be synced from debian
<tumbleweed> that's the best for everybody
<tumbleweed> we like to move a little faster in ubuntu, so we often jump ahead, but we push everything we can back up
<oxullo> ok, xi 2.1is in debian sid. so, just to summarize it up: if I find a couple of motus who would spend time into reviewing the packages I might be able to have them pushed in ubuntu for precise. Otherwise, debian way, out with wheezy and sync to ubuntu
<tumbleweed> if it's there, why not go through debian now?
<oxullo> ah, right, ubuntu syncs from sid.. ok, I'll get back to the docs, then (sigh). Thanks for your time, I'll be probably coming back :)
<tumbleweed> well, we sync from testing during LTSs
<tumbleweed> but we can sync from unstable when we want to
<oxullo> so no prob for precise. And I have (theoretically) time up to Jan 13th, right?
<tumbleweed> later, if necessary
<blair> boost1.48 was added to debian around dec 2 and it's not in ubuntu yet, should i do a sync request?
<tumbleweed> blair: it hasn't got into testing yet
<tumbleweed> (and we aren't planning on doing a boost transition this cycle, that I know of)
<tumbleweed> but it should get in
<blair> it's a brand new package name, so (i think) it wouldn't conflict with the existing boosts
<tumbleweed> yes, it doesn't
<tumbleweed> blair: you don't have to request it, the archive admins process new packages fro mdebian, but it may taka couple of weeks
<tumbleweed> (can be rushed, if necessary)
<blair> i'd like to see it in before the debian import freeze
<tumbleweed> that should happen
<tumbleweed> if it doesn't, request the sync
<blair> llvm-3.0 was synced over very quickly, would that be because somebody is personally interested in it?
<tumbleweed> probably, it has a reverse dep in teh archive
<psusi> so the binary package name is libdmraid-1.0.0.rc16.  Shouldn't the package name just be libdmraid, and it have version 1.0.0.rc16?
<tumbleweed> no
<psusi> why not?
<tumbleweed> welocome to world of shared libraries
<psusi> err, libdmraid1 rather
<tumbleweed> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<psusi> the symbols stuff is supposed to keep track of what minor version a symbol was added in so that linking packages can depend on the correct version right?  and only major number changes are supposed to break backward compat?
<tumbleweed> yes, but not every upstream understands that
<tumbleweed> most need it beaten into them...
<psusi> so... it should be libdmraid1 iff upstream understands that?
<tumbleweed> if they don't understand it, we should consider whether it should be packaged :P
<psusi> so.... why isn't it an error to have the .0.0.rc16 part in the package name?
<tumbleweed> seriously though: if it's still on 1, chances are they have as table ABI
<tumbleweed> oh, right
<tumbleweed> that's the soname
<psusi> the soname should be 1.0.0 shouldn't it?
<tumbleweed> no, because 1.0.0 isn't relased yet
<tumbleweed> and what they currently have released isn't guaranteed to be ABI compatible with 1.0.0
<psusi> that's why it's version is supposed to be 1.0.0.rc16
<tumbleweed> (abi versions don't necessarily match software versions)
<psusi> actually, it should be 1.0.0+rc16 shouldn't it?
<tumbleweed> it could be anything, really
<psusi> seems that's an error in the current package
<psusi> you want it to be +rc16 so that when the final release comes, it's > the +rc16 version don't you?
<tumbleweed> the package version prabbly should have been 1.0.0~rc16
<tumbleweed> the soname doesn't have to sort
<psusi> ohh, was it a ~ not a + that does that?
<jtaylor> as a muto do I have direct access to a native arm machine?
<tumbleweed> no, ubuntu doesn't have porterboxses for non-canonical people
<jtaylor> k then I'll get a guet acc in debian
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: happy to sponsor that if you need
<psusi> yea, so package version should have been 1.0.0~rc16, soname should have been 1.0.0 shouldn't it? but the symbol file would have listed the version as 1.0.0~rc16, and the name of the lib package should be libdmraid1?
<jtaylor> :( somebody fixed the package I wanted to fix in my first upload this weekend
<tumbleweed> psusi: no, the soname shouldn't have been 1.0.0 unless upstream agreed with that
<tumbleweed> psusi: upstream clearly hasn't settled on a stable abi yet
<psusi> how do you figure?
<psusi> they name it 1.0.0
<tumbleweed> psusi: otherwise the soname would be less crazy
<tumbleweed> that's the "default"
<psusi> no, their makefile builds libdmraid1.0.0
<psusi> it looks like the previous upstream build it as libdmraid1.so, and the debian package had a patch to make it turn into libdmraid1.0.0.rc16
<tumbleweed> right, because they had broken their ABI
<tumbleweed> psusi: read the docs I pointed you at
<psusi> they who?  upstream, or debian?
<tumbleweed> upstream
<psusi> how do you figure they broke their abi?
<tumbleweed> otherwise the debian maintainer whouldn't have changed the soname during the life of the package
<psusi> he changed it because it was missing the minor number
<psusi> upstream just called it 1, but debian wants it to be 1.0.0
<tumbleweed> presumably because he had to
<psusi> now upstream has fixed their makefile to build it as 1.0.0
<blair> tumbleweed, psusi hdf5 are bad upstream since they break their ABI for patch releases, even changing #defines integer values
<psusi> ok, so yea... ldd on the upstream binary says it is importing libdmraid.so.1, so that means the package name should be libdmraid1 shouldn't it?
<psusi> blair: who is hdf5?
<blair> it's a package from NCSA to store scientific data
<tumbleweed> blair: *IF* we are using libdmraid.so.1 as the soname then the package should be libdmraid1
<psusi> for tha tmatter, why the hell is this even a solib anyhow?  it's only used internally by dmraid
<psusi> oh boy... the current version has /usr/lib/libdmraid.a and .so... so that means there is no abi in the soname, which is wrong, isn't it?
<jtaylor> .a have no soname
<tumbleweed> psusi: did you read the links?
<psusi> tumbleweed: yea... so I'm gathering that the soname should be ( and is in the new version ) libdmraid.so.1, and therefore, the package name should be libdmraid1, but in the current version, it was just named libdmraid.so, which I guess is why the packager named the lib package libdmraid1.0.0.rc16 instead of just libdmraid1?
<tumbleweed> psusi: my deafult reaciton is not to turst upstreams who say their soname is ... .1
<psusi> but theoretically that is how it should be right?  and the reason that the package name isn't just 1, is beacuse the packager didn't trust the upstream to not break abi?
<tumbleweed> probably because he could see them breaking it
<psusi> so... I should rename the new upstream solib to 1.0.0rc16?
<psusi> actually... if I do nothing, the name change and warnings about the .symbol file only means that packages linking to the so will depend on >= the new version, even though they might otherwise have been able to >= the old version right?  but since no packages besides dmraid link to the lib... who gives a crap?
<tumbleweed> how fast are they changing the ABI, in incompatible ways?
<psusi> they haven't even had a release in over a year... it's in stable maintainence mode
<psusi> and besides, the damn lib isn't used by anyone else anyow ;)
<jtaylor> when nothing uses it and the abi is unstable it should be a private lib
<tumbleweed> yeah, probably
<jtaylor> = not directly in usr/lib
<jtaylor> but some subfolder
<psusi> well I guess they intended for others to be able to use it, just nobody does
<tumbleweed> that makes your life easier :)
<psusi> theoretically I should rename the lib package to 1.0.0.rc16.3 now I guess
<Resistance> hmm... anyone able to help me debug why backportpackage errors out?
<psusi> but since the soname changed, it doesn't matter because either way, anyone trying to link to this package is going to depend on the new version anyhow
<Resistance> prior to me setting DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL it worked
<tumbleweed> psusi: you understand why the soname needs to appear in the package name?
<tumbleweed> Resistance: what did you set them to?
<Resistance> tumbleweed:  my name, "Thomas Ward", and my @ubuntu email, trekcaptainusa-tw@ubuntu.com
<Resistance> there's PGP keys that match that
<tumbleweed> Resistance: and the error is?
<Resistance> sec
<Resistance> i'll pastebin
<psusi> tumbleweed: because it represents the abi version... in other words, a contract that linking to any newer version of the lib that has that major number won't break you
<psusi> right?
<Resistance> tumbleweed: http://pastebin.com/zYzji6Gg
<tumbleweed> psusi: what I'm really getting at is that when you bump the ABI, you need to have both packages installed simultaneously until everyone has rebuilt against the new library
<Resistance> not sure whether something updated or not to break it, but when i didnt set DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL it never did this
<psusi> tumbleweed: right, that too
<tumbleweed> looks like you nderstand shared library linking :)
<jtaylor> Resistance: missing build dependency?
<Resistance> jtaylor:  debhelper has a build dep?
<psusi> so you replace 1.0 with 1.1, or 1.2, and anyone looking for 1 will be happy... you go to 2.0, and you need to be able to have both 1.2 and 2.0 installed
<tumbleweed> Resistance: make[1]: po4a: Command not found
<psusi> because someone looking for 1 can't use 2.0
<Resistance> hmm
<Resistance> tumbleweed:  any idea what package provides that?
<jtaylor> po4a
<Resistance> heh
<Resistance> yeah just found that
<Resistance> thanks
<jtaylor> hm why isn't it erroring out with a proper error message? its in the build depends
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: this is building the source package
<ajmitch> jtaylor: it's being called from the clean rule, probably outside the chroot
<tumbleweed> we don't check build-deps so much for that...
<ajmitch> you get the same problem with pbuilder
<micahg> Resistance: which package is this?
<micahg> oh, I see :)
<Resistance> micahg:  backport, debhelper oneiric -> natty to fulfill the build-dep of mysql 5.5 in a backports-staging ppa
<Resistance> and mysql 5.5 is a build-dep for php5.3.8 :/
<micahg> Resistance: that seems wrong IMHO
<Resistance> *shrugs*
<micahg> that's also wrong IMHO :)
<Resistance> micahg:  https://launchpad.net/~trekcaptainusa-tw/+archive/backports/+build/2995183  :/
<Resistance> same in i386 https://launchpad.net/~trekcaptainusa-tw/+archive/backports/+build/2995184
<micahg> but debhelper at least won't break anything in a stable release (at least at runtime), mysql might :)
<ajmitch> micahg: it's because php5 runs some tests that need mysql, and there were of course some changes from 5.1 to 5.5 :)
<micahg> ajmitch: right, but to strictly depend on one version of mysql?
<Resistance> micahg:  also https://launchpad.net/~trekcaptainusa-tw/+archive/backports/+build/2983124
<ajmitch> micahg: I know, it's a recent ubuntu addition
<Resistance> micahg:  fwiw, this is why its not in the deployment PPA
 * Resistance has one for staging and one for deployment
<Resistance> and a standalone system nobody cares about for testing the stuff in staging :P
<ajmitch> Resistance: I finally got 5.4 through the PPA queue if you want to test that as well
<micahg> Resistance: mysql 5.5 isn't a hard requirement since Debian doesn't have it, so I don't think you need to be jumping through all these hoops
<Resistance> micahg:  *shrugs*
<blair> tumbleweed, by when should i submit the sync request for boost1.48 as we approach freeze and to give enough time for it to be synced in?
<Resistance> micahg:  tbh my main concern was DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL
<Resistance> also...
<Resistance> i have a version of ZNC i modified that i cant actually get to build either :/
 * Resistance glares evilly at his computer
<tumbleweed> blair: DIF is the point at which it stops syncing atomatically. That doesn't mean we stop getting new packages from debian after that
<micahg> Resistance: I'd suggest switching 5.5 for 5.1 in debian/control for the PHP backport
<tumbleweed> blair: but yes, just after DIF is a good time to request packages that haven't made it in yet.
<blair> ok, so be patient ;)
<blair> and it's currently December 29th?
<micahg> no, Jan 10
<micahg> or 9, I can't remember
<Resistance> micahg:  that'd imply i'd have to reupload the package for php5.3.8 after modifying it
<micahg> Resistance: yep :)
<micahg> but you shouldn't need the other backports
 * Resistance is already bordering on reaching the maximum bandwidth he's allowed on the campus network
<Resistance> :P
<micahg> Resistance: you don't need to reupload the tarball, just the Debian part, debuild -S -sd
<micahg> which is about 350k
<ajmitch> & then wait 12-18 hours for it to build
<micahg> heh, it's in dep-wait now I think, so 12-18 hours should be better  :)
<Resistance> ajmitch:  hey, i had to wait 48 in order for the oneiric one to actually build.
 * Resistance was very annoyed at this
<ajmitch> Resistance: damn, that's awhile
<Resistance> mhm
<ajmitch> though I think backports are scored a bit lower than PPA uploads fore precise
<micahg> 17/14 for i386/amd64 ATM
<Resistance> i thought thats just the backports pocket target
<Resistance> :/
 * ajmitch took a couple of uploads for 5.4 rc2 to build for precise, thankfully it's built now
<Resistance> ...
<Resistance> micahg:  how can i get *just* the debian stuff out of the tarball?
<Resistance> because the default tarball doesnt contain debian/ :/
<Resistance> (the one i get from backportpackage -w)
<micahg> Resistance: huh?  don't you have a local copy of the source you uploadeD?
<Resistance> micahg:  backportpackage :/
<Resistance> and the source tarball doesnt get extracted
<Resistance> so when i checked it
<micahg> yeah, backportpackage downloads it
<Resistance> it didnt have debian/
<micahg> Resistance: dpkg-source -x on the .dsc file
<Resistance> would if it still existeed
<Resistance> i was cleaning up some stuff :P
<Resistance> accidentially'd the folder i was working in
<micahg> Resistance: you have the tarball?
<Resistance> in about 3 minutes i will
 * Resistance is grabbing the source tarball as we speak :P
<micahg> Resistance: ok, so, once you have that, in the same dir, just use pull-lp-source php5, it should see your tarball and not download it again, but pull down the debian diff/dsc file
<Resistance> assuming dget doesnt already do that?  :p
<Resistance> ah THERE'S debian/
<Resistance> :P
<micahg> ok
<micahg> yeah, dget on the dsc would do the same thing
<Resistance> ...
<Resistance> this *might* be a bit interesting...
 * Resistance sees a package name that has mysql-<blah>-5.5
<ajmitch> fwiw, it looks like the build-depends were changed to include versions to avoid problems with upstart & the mysql postinsts
<Resistance> which seems to depend solely on the 5.5. packages
<Resistance> ajmitch:  would that end up with the absolute requirement of mysql 5.5?
<ajmitch> it was first changed from mysql-server to mysql-server-core-5.1 & mysql-client-5.1, then those changed to 5.5
<Resistance> ajmitch:  happen to know which version(s) of mysql-server-core and mysql-client are in natty?
<ajmitch> should be 5.1
<ajmitch> checking with rmadison now if mysql-server-core-5.1 was split out there
<ajmitch> & it was, so you should be safe to use that
<micahg> yeah, you probably don't want these changes either: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/85839251/php5_5.3.8.0-1ubuntu1_5.3.8.0-1ubuntu2.diff.gz
<Resistance> micahg:  any advice would be useful before i debuild -S -sd the thing
 * Resistance has already added a changelog entry and has already modified debian/control
<micahg> Resistance: well, if you pulled the ubuntu2 revision from precise above, you'll want to revert those other changes as well
<Resistance> yes i did pull from precise, ubuntu2.  any way i can easily undo a diff given the diff file?
<Resistance> without digging around in code manually
<micahg> Resistance: patch -R?
<Resistance> micahg:  just hangs there :/
<ajmitch> you'd need to pass it the patch you want to reverse
<ajmitch> the changes are only 2 lines in setup-mysql.sh, so it's probably easier to edit that
<Resistance> mhm
<Resistance> ajmitch:  i know to pass it the patch ;PO
<Resistance> but its just hanging there :p
<aboudreault> Hi!! I'm about to create a new LXC container for my debian/ubuntu packages. Is Cowbuilder/Pbuilder still the way to go for packages building? (multi debian/ubuntu release) etc..
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> sbuild is also nice
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-10
<psusi> the upstream config.guess and config.status obviously change whenever I build the package... debuild complains the next time I try to build... why aren't these changes ignored?  did I forget something?
<tumbleweed> why should the be ignored? if you want something that gets generated to be ignored, delete it in clean
<psusi> but it's in the orig tarball
<psusi> or was it?  hrm..
<tumbleweed> deleted files are ignored
<psusi> ahh
<psusi> ok
<psusi> hrm... the upstream code isn't finding -ldevmapper, I think because the library is actually named libdevmapper.so.1.02.1... how do I fix this?
<psusi> no, that's not it.. hrm....
<psusi> AHA!  transitory linking error!
<psusi> darn new gcc behavior
<Resistance> is there a way to force debuild to use a specific PGP key ID, assuming i have more than one PGP key available?
<ajmitch> EvilResistance: you can pass the key id to debuild with -k
<EvilResistance> thanks
<EvilResistance> anyone here know if its possible to get a specific upload to a PPA reversed? i accidentially entered the wrong upload destination in dput :/
<EvilResistance> (on LP.  i posted in #launchpad, but nothing)
<broder> ...reversed?
<EvilResistance> broder:  i accidentially uploaded my ZNC code (the one i modified to remove certain features and add others) to my backports-staging PPA
<EvilResistance> it bumped the version number up
<broder> just delete the source and binaries
<EvilResistance> when the upload was destined to its own specific PPA
<broder> i think if you do that and wait long enough you can upload the same version again
<EvilResistance> broder:  that'd delete the entire package, no?
<broder> but not positive
<EvilResistance> i.e. all versions
<EvilResistance> i dont even see the version that actually *built* on the archive's lkist
<EvilResistance> list*
<EvilResistance> (I cancelled the pending builds though)
<broder> not sure then
<EvilResistance> yeah if i have to i'll post a question against launchpad itself to see if it can be done
<EvilResistance> it might need some lp-admin magic to fix it :/
<EvilResistance> ugh and now dput won't upload the source tar
<EvilResistance> er
<EvilResistance> the orig.tar.gz
<EvilResistance> so i cant put it into the right ppa
<paissad> hello guys
<paissad> i have this .desktop file, http://zlin.dk/p/?NDE4M2M0, but after i install the .deb package . i don't see the application in the menu
<paissad> i use KDE in Ubuntu oneiric
<jtaylor> is it installed correctly?
<frafu> Hi I uploaded a package into a PPA, and shortly afterwards, I uploaded an updated package into that PPA, but it did not superseed the first uploaded package. I am aware that it is a problem with my versioning scheme: 	0.96.1+bzr536-0ppa~oneiric1 and 0.96.1+bzr542-0ppa~oneiric1. Could anybody please give me an advice about how to do the versioning? Here is the situation: The ubuntu repositories are shipping 0.96.1-0ubuntu1. The version that I am publishing
<frafu>  is a snapshot of the 0.96 branch with a preview of 0.96.2. So, I want my snapshots to superseed 0.96.1 but it should be superseeded by 0.96.2. Thanks in advance for any advice.
<frafu> What about 0.96.1-bzr542~ppa~oneiric1? Would that work?
<jtaylor> 0.96.1+bzr536-0ppa~oneiric1 is smaller than 0.96.1+bzr542-0ppa~oneiric1, it should ahve superseeded
<frafu> jtaylor: Here is the PPA: https://launchpad.net/~onboard/+archive/snapshots
<frafu> Do you think that I have stumbled on a bug in launchpad?
<jtaylor> oneiric has a package with precise as suffix, thats not so good
<jtaylor> bzr542~ppa~oneiric1 will not superseed bzr542~ppa~precise1
<frafu> jtaylor: I think that I know now what happened: the versioning scheme is correct if I understood you correctly. I surely made a mistake while publishing the packages, because my intention was to publish the packages for the oneiric and the precise distributions. Thanks for your help.
<jtaylor> dpkg --compare-versions is useful for such things
<frafu> jtaylor: This is what I did wrong:  0.96.1+bzr542-0ppa~precise1  was intended for the precise distribution, but I forgot to replace oneiric with precise in the debian/changelog and it superseeded  0.96.1+bzr542-0ppa~oneiric1 in the oneiric repo of the PPA. Thanks for the command to compare the versions. I get warnings if I use it on my versioning scheme. Could you please tell me whether the problem is with my versioning scheme or with my usage of the comm
<frafu> and?
<frafu> dpkg --compare-versions '0.96.1+bzr536-0ppa~oneiric1_amd64.deb' gt '0.96.1+bzr542-0ppa~precise1_amd64.deb'
<jtaylor> what warning
<frafu> dpkg: warning: version '0.96.1+bzr536-0ppa~oneiric1_amd64.deb' has bad syntax: invalid character in revision number
<frafu> dpkg: warning: version '0.96.1+bzr542-0ppa~precise1_amd64.deb' has bad syntax: invalid character in revision number
<jtaylor> it only takes version number
<jtaylor> not the whole filename
<jtaylor> = the part before the _
<Ampelbein> gilir: hi, do you want to request a sync for nautilus-image-converter or are you ok with me doing it? It build fine in precise, buildlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~amoog/nautilus-image-converter_0.3.1~git20110416-1-amd64-20111210-1540.gz
<frafu> dpkg --compare-versions '0.96.1+bzr536-0ppa~oneiric1' gt '0.96.1+bzr542-0ppa~precise1'
<frafu> does not output anything. Should it not tell me that it is wrong?
<Ampelbein> You should check the returncode
<jtaylor> put an && echo "yes" behind it
<jtaylor> if you see it the statement is true
<frafu> dpkg --compare-versions '0.96.1+bzr536-0ppa~oneiric1' gt '0.96.1+bzr542-0ppa~precise1' && echo "yes"
<frafu> still no output
<jtaylor> as its false
<jtaylor> 536 < 542
<Ampelbein> frafu: if you want some output: dpkg --compare-versions '0.96.1+bzr536-0ppa~oneiric1' gt '0.96.1+bzr542-0ppa~precise1' && echo "true" || echo "false"
<gilir> Ampelbein, bug 883071 needs to be fixed first before we can sync again
<frafu> jtaylor: thanks; I understand now: the echo is only executed if the previous statement was true.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883071 in nautilus-image-converter (Ubuntu) "Please remove nautilus-image-converter from sync blacklist" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883071
<Ampelbein> gilir: Oh, didn't see that. Does that mean that even manual sync wouldn't work?
<frafu> Ampelbein: Thanks for the alternative method that gives an answer in both cases.
<gilir> Ampelbein, only fakesync works, which is a waste of time considering the sync can be automatic when it will be removed from blacklist
<Ampelbein> ok
<Ampelbein> thanks for the info.
<frafu> Does anybody know, whether there is a way to see how many times a package has been downloaded from a PPA?
<jtaylor> frafu: can be done via launchpadlib
<jtaylor> there is no direct display
<jtaylor> bug 688141
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 688141 in Launchpad itself "Show PPA download stats in the web UI" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688141
<frafu> jtaylor: Could you please give me some details about how to use launchpadlib? Does it have to be through the means of an application or is there a more direct way?
<frafu> Do python bindings exist?
<jtaylor> it is a python library
<tumbleweed> frafu: https://help.launchpad.net/API
<jtaylor> install lptools and ipython, start lp-shell
<jtaylor> launchpad.me.ppas[0].getPublishedBinaries()[0].getDownloadCounts()
<frafu> Great. :-) Thanks to both of you.
<jtaylor> how does one go about fixing bugs in main packages?
<jtaylor> via merge request?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: there's nothing special about main
<tumbleweed> many desktop packages have their packaging in bzr under the desktop-team (although IIRC they may be using UDD now, or about to be using UDD)
<geser> jtaylor: the same way you fixed universe packages before you become MOTU
<jtaylor> so a merge request/debdiff?
<geser> yes
<Laney> a'noon
<nigelb> Hey Laney
<Laney> eet eez cold
 * nigelb waves from a comfortable 22 C.
<Laney> hold me
<tumbleweed> yeah, a nice comfortable 20ish here too (touch wood it doesn't get too crazy hot next week)
<nigelb> jtaylor: congrats on MOTU!
<nigelb> Why so late :)
<tumbleweed> heh
<jtaylor> nigelb: thx
<psusi> can dh_makeshlibs actually operate on more than one package at a time?   lvm2 is exporting DH_OPTIONS = -pliblvm2app$(LVM2APP_ABINAME) -pliblvm2cmd$(LVM2CMD_ABINAME) -pliblvm2-dev... and there are no .symbol files for any of those
<broder> does anybody object to multiarching openssl098?
<broder> (i have a patch)
<Laney> are we intending to keep that for much longer?
<broder> it seems useful for 3rd party app compatibility
<broder> i guess cjwatson's description of it as a "compatibility" package had me thinking it wasn't intended to be just transitional
<broder> it looks like acroread may still link 0.9.8
<jtaylor> pypy does too
<jtaylor> and you can't just ask people to rebuild that, it needs more than 4gb ram ^^
<tumbleweed> I'm working at packaging that...
<jtaylor> I heard, thats great
<tumbleweed> but it won't build on my machine any more (6G rab, built fine a month ago)
<jtaylor> lol
<tumbleweed> have to use a 32bit chroot...
<psusi> man pages should be in .manpages, not .install shouldn't they?
<jtaylor> yes
 * psusi bonks the debian lvm team
<psusi> now if only I could figure out why the hell there are no symbols files for all but one of the libs in here
<psusi> and dh_makeslibs on -c4 isn't complaining that it's found them either
<tumbleweed> because nobody wrote them?
<psusi> then dh_makeshlibs should complain that it has found new symbols shouldn't it?
<psusi> and fail the build since I set it to -c4
<psusi> until I add the new symbols
<tumbleweed> no symbols file doesn't mean there are new symbols
<tumbleweed> it means we don't know
<psusi> right.. we don't know what was there, but now we're scanning the libs, and should find a bunch of syms and print the diff for me to patch into the .symbols file shouldn't it?
<tumbleweed> no, beacuse that would make for very messy build logs
<tumbleweed> it's not that hard to run dpkg-gensymbols yourself
<psusi> are you saying no because there NO symbols file, as opposed to an empty .symbols file?
<tumbleweed> yes
<psusi> because normally when it finds new symbols, it does print the diff
<psusi> hrm... the man page for dpkg-gensymbols says if you use -c4, it should complain when new libs appear as well
<tumbleweed> of course, it would be lovely if everyobody used symbols files, but in many packages, they seem to not be worth the effort (or at least, people say that)
<psusi> debian policy requires that you use them doesn't it?
<tumbleweed> no
<psusi> hrm... let's see then... maybe I just need an LD_LIBRARY_PATH....
<psusi> so without them, then that just means packages built against the lib will always depend on exactly that version they were built with?
<psusi> or newer?
<tumbleweed> yes
<tumbleweed> and you'll have no idea if you've broken ABI
<tumbleweed> (not that symbols files are foolproof, but a missing symbol is definitly an ABI break)
<psusi> right
<psusi> so debian policy doesn't require their use for public libraries?  seems to defeat the purpose
<tumbleweed> what's wrong with them being optional?
<tumbleweed> lots of the debian policy is optional
<psusi> damnit... what's wrong here?  dpkg-shlibdeps is complaining that it can't find library liblvm2cmd.so.2.02 needed by debian/libdevmapper-event1.02.1/lib/libdevmapper-event-lvm2.so.2.02, and suggests using LD_LIBRARY_PATH if you want it to find a private lib..
<psusi> I added export LD_LIBRARY_PATH = debian/build/build_deb/tools to the rules file, which is where that lib can be found
<jtaylor> whats the library doing in /lib?
<jtaylor> and the ld path should point to debian/package-name/usr/lib/whatever
<psusi> because it's a lib?
<jtaylor> ah lvm ok then the place is probably ok
<psusi> hrm... I pointed it to the build dir instead of the install dir... thought that would be better as it's there prior to install
<jtaylor> shlibdeps runs after nstall
<jtaylor> pointing it to something somewhere else just risks that you build a broken package
<psusi> ok... pointed it to the install_deb/lib directory... it's still complaining it can't find it... hrm...
<psusi> aha!  the other target was needlessly including this one
<psusi> ahh... their rules file doesn't call dh_installman
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-11
<psusi> hallelujah, holy shit! I finally got it figured out and working... my god what a complex package, but I think I really understand what is going on now... it builds half a dozen packages with various interdependencies and two different sets of abi versions... damn!  it's milla time!
<paissad> is there policy for creating Unity quicklinks ?
<paissad> for the .deb packaging
<psusi> there's no way to make a package a dependency only if a third package is also installed is there?
<tumbleweed> paissad: #ayatana or #ubuntu-desktop
<paissad> tumbleweed, ok
<pcpratts> hi! I am trying to save off config files for an upgrade
<pcpratts> in postrm upgrade I copy the config files to a temp folder
<pcpratts> and in postint configure I am trying to overwrite the files from the newly installed .deb package
<pcpratts> but .dkpg-temp files are being created
<pcpratts> and those are finally used by the installer in some way
<Ampelbein> pcpratts: What do you want to do? dpkg by default prompts the user to overwrite/keep/examine changed configfiles.
<pcpratts> well, my conf files are not marked it seems
<pcpratts> Ampelbein: do you know how to tell dpkg what my config files are?
<Ampelbein> pcpratts: see http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-conffiles.html
<pcpratts> okay, thanks!
<lfaraone> I'm attempting to mirror the Ubuntu archive with ubumirror; is there a way to exclude certain releases from the mirroring?
<tumbleweed> never used ubumirror...
<lfaraone> (as in, I tried to exclude maverick, natty, and precise; it didn't work and I ran out of disk space <_<;
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: well, I need to do a two-stage sync, right?
<lfaraone> jpds: ping ^^
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: right, that looks like an ftpsync type thing
<tumbleweed> you can't exclude releases, because it doesn't parse the Packages files
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: should I use apt-mirror in the interim until I get a less sucky disk?
<tumbleweed> yeah, or debmirror
<Ampelbein> hyperair: Hi! Regarding bugs like 885505, it might be useful to include a short message with the status change to "Fix Released". Like "Fixed in the latest ubuntu version 0.21-1". That way, people know what happened.
<hyperair> right, good idea.
<hyperair> Ampelbein: thanks. i actually meant to close the bug in debian/changelog, but failed miserably when i missed out the #
<Ampelbein> I thought so. I was a bit confused by the status change myself but checked the upload log to find out.
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> sorry, i get a bit slipshod when changing a large number of bugs to fix released
<Ampelbein> No worries ;-)
<hyperair> i should probably make better use of the email interface for those
<tumbleweed> ScottK, Laney, broder: do people use prevu? (Why is it still in the archive?) (re http://lists.debian.org/4EE4D536.7060909@grendelman.net )
<broder> i've never heard of people using it
 * tumbleweed is following up to that thread
<broder> but i know its intent was to be easier to use/setup than sbuild/pbuilder. i don't know if it actually is
<broder> or if that's still relevant in the era of ppas
 * ajmitch thought it was just a wrapper around pbuilder
<ajmitch> but I haven't really used it
<tumbleweed> question is, is it a useful one. I see very few uploads and few bug reports
<tumbleweed> yeah, the code is tiny
<ajmitch> it did what backportpackage is meant for
<broder> i tihnk it can be replaced by backportpackage + pbuilder-dist with little documentation and not a whole lot of difficulty
<ScottL> i have a bzr branch (ubuntustudio-default-settings) that i want to completely replace with another bzr branch (xubuntu-default-settings with modifications i will make)
<ScottL> is the command i use to remove my current branch from bzr:  'bzr remove-tree'
<ScottL> ?
<tumbleweed> no remove-tree removes your working directory
<tumbleweed> just rm -r
<tumbleweed> (if I'm understanding your question correctly)
<ScottL> tumbleweed, i'm not sure i am asking clearly
<tumbleweed> you have a local branch that you don't want any more?
<EvilResistance> ScottL:  you basically want to purge your ubuntusudio-default-settings branch, and have xubuntu-default-settings take its place?
<EvilResistance> remotely/
<EvilResistance> *
<ScottL> EvilResistance, aye
<EvilResistance> tumbleweed:  read my interp.
<ScottL> sorry, was helping wife with cooking dinner
<EvilResistance> ScottL:  remotely, or locally?
<EvilResistance> (remotely such as on LP)
<EvilResistance> (and locally meaning at your machine)
<ScottL> sorry, helping with dinner again
<ScottL> okay
<ScottL> the bzr branch is hosted in launchpad
<ScottL> i was checking out a version that i wanted to replace
<ScottL> so it would be locally
<ScottL> and then i would push back to lp
<ScottL> EvilResistance, ^^^
<tumbleweed> if you are replacing it remotely, it really doesn't matter what you are doing locally
<tumbleweed> you can push anything over anything else with push --overwrite
<tumbleweed> (use with care, of course)
<ScottL> tumbleweed, so i could not even use 'bzr branch' for the ubuntustudio-default-settings package?
<tumbleweed> yes
<ScottL> just 'apt-get source xubuntu-default-settings' ?
<ScottL> bzr add
<ScottL> commit and then push
<ScottL> ?
<ScottL> push meaning pushing to ubuntustudio-default-settings with --overwrite
<tumbleweed> assuming you want to remove the entire history for the branch
<ScottL> oh, not sure i want to do that actually
<ScottL> i would feel more comfortable if i had something to fall back to
<tumbleweed> so by "completly replace" you just mean "commit a new revision"?
 * tumbleweed thinks he understands the question now
<tumbleweed> branch the existing branch, delete every file in it (but leave .bzr), add the stuff you want to replace it with, bzr add, commit
<ScottL> yes, i would like to "commit a new revision" which would not include any of the old code, yes
<ScottL> can i use 'bzr add' to add everything?
<ScottL> or does it require a qualifier?
<tumbleweed> no qualifier required
<ScottL> very cool, thanks tumbleweed
<ScottL> it was more or less like i thought it would be, but it makes me feel very, very much more comfortable to have it confirmed :)
<tumbleweed> np
<ScottL> although i thought that i would need to 'bzr remove' at least _something_ :?
<tumbleweed> bzr assumes that files you've deleted should be deleted
<ScottL> even better, wasn't sure about that
<ScottL> thanks again tumbleweed and EvilResistance
<psusi> what's the environment variable you set to get debian/rules to use make -j?
<tumbleweed> DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS. But the debian/rules needs to support it
<tumbleweed> (dh has a --parallel option)
<psusi> what do you set it to?
<psusi> just DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=-j4 debian/rules binary?
<tumbleweed> no
<tumbleweed> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html
<psusi> ahh
<psusi> pfft... silly kernel rules file told me to make mrproper before building... which then deleted the debian directory
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-03
<micahg> build-essential is installed on the buildds
<TheLordOfTime> which means it isnt needed as a build dep
<TheLordOfTime> although as a dependency for some packages, it may need it.
<TheLordOfTime> ... okay, perhaps i should have just requested hte backport to precise, and killed two birds with one stone, but since i didn't, should I remove quantal backports as a target on https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantal-backports/+bug/1085760?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1085760 in Quantal Backports "Please backport znc 1.0-1 (universe) from raring" [Undecided,New]
<TheLordOfTime> since i already have a separate quantal backport bug.
<TheLordOfTime> (which is https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantal-backports/+bug/1085731)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1085731 in Quantal Backports "Please backport znc 1.0-1 (universe) from raring" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: sure, that's fine
<alo21> hi
<alo21> I have an issue upgrading doc-ubuntu
<alo21> I got this error: ERROR: Cannot find ~/debian/www/webwml/english to regenerate the sources. Please read the TODO.
<alo21> can someone help me please?
<dholbach> good morning
<sladen> morgen
<dholbach> hi sladen
<psusi> rather than subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to upload an SRU to quantal-proposed, would the UDD thing to do be to propose merging a branch into quantal-proposed instead?
<tumbleweed> the quantal-proposed branch often doesn't exist
<tumbleweed> (it only exists if there was a previous SRU)
<tumbleweed> and if you propose merging into quantal, then only tech-board members can change the status of your merge proposal
<tumbleweed> also, SRUs need tracking bugs anyway.
<psusi> have bug, just wondering if I need to subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to check out the bzr branch, build the source deb, and upload it to quantal-proposed, or if there's a UDD way to do that
<psusi> in this case, grub does appear to have a quantal-proposed branch
<tumbleweed> a merge proposal is the UDD way
<psusi> so propose merge to quantal, or quantal-proposed?
<tumbleweed> -proposed
<micahg> the UDD way is useless for SRUs for packages that don't have a -proposed branch unless you like the bzr workflow since your changes will be lost
<psusi> what do you mean?
<micahg> s/changes/iterations/ (the whole point of the VCS)
<tumbleweed> the uploader can't create the -proposed branch, so your commits will never be merged. The uploaded source package will be imported
<psusi> ahh... but in this case, someone has created the proposed branch already, so just propose merge to it?
<tumbleweed> sure
<psusi> ok
<alo21> hi
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-04
<darkxst> I am thinking of upload the current version of synergy to raring, but its not backwards compatible with the existing version in the repo's
<darkxst> whats the best way to handle that? obviously would need to keep the old version available as well
<micahg> darkxst: depends, if the old version isn't supported, it should just be replaced, but in either case, something like this should probably be done through Debian
<micahg> experimental has 1.3.10
<darkxst> micahg, current branch is 1.4.x
<darkxst> I think the 1.3 branch is no longer supported upstream
<micahg> darkxst: I'd suggest speaking with the Debian maintainer about how he plans on handling the new version and what you can do to help
<micahg> hrm, I read wrong, experimental has 1.4.10
<darkxst> micahg, so we could just sync that?
<micahg> well, upstream it's marked as beta
<micahg> idk if it's syncable or we need our diff still
<micahg> ah, I see we're in sync again
<darkxst> yes upstream 1.4.x is marked as beta, however as I said 1.3 branch is not maintained anymore and hasnt been for quite a while
<micahg> so, assuming 1.4.x is usable in raring, yeah, you can pursue a sync (and might want to backport to precise and quantal since it's incompatible with the ones in that release)
<darkxst> micahg, yes I have 1.4 running across raring, quantal and precise machines
<darkxst> works fine on all 3 machines
<micahg> ok, go for it then :)
<darkxst> ok will do
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, what's the general turnaround time for backport requests that've been checked/tested?
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: depends if the backporters have time :), so for me, that's later this week
<TheLordOfTime> mmkay :)
<ESphynx> who should I notify for a synx again?
<ESphynx> sync*
<ScottK> ESphynx: Subscribe the bug to ubuntu-sponsors.
<ESphynx> right :) did that :) thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<mitya57> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey mitya57
<mitya57> did you notice that I fixed oneiric & precise builds?
<dholbach> mitya57, u-p-g builds again on all releases :)
<mitya57> :)
<dholbach> good work! ÑÐ¿Ð°ÑÐ¸Ð±Ð¾! :)
<dholbach> probably time to enable Spanish? :)
<mitya57> yes, I think
<mitya57> it should build on >= precise
<mitya57> also, do you have anything against http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mitya57/ubuntu-packaging-guide/no-pot-hashes/revision/230?
<dholbach> mitya57, no, it's a good idea - I'm not sure how careful we need to be, but do you think the regex should also make sure the line ^"# " and ends after those 32 chars?
<dholbach> mitya57, those hashes irked me too to be honest - it makes a .pot diff harder to read than necessary and they change all the time
<mitya57> I can add "# " to the regexp
<dholbach> sweet
<dholbach> thanks you
<mitya57> dholbach, fixed and pushed
<dholbach> great work
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> mitya57, can you review http://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/ubuntu-packaging-guide/enable-spanish? (basically I just removed the footnote as discussed and ran ./debian/scripts/add-languages + bzr add)
<dholbach> https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/ubuntu-packaging-guide/enable-spanish/+merge/137770
<mitya57> dholbach, removed the footnote? why? it should work with my fixed sphinx
<mitya57> I can also backport the fix to oneiric if you want
<dholbach> ok, let me see
<dholbach> that might be good
<dholbach> for the archive itself it will be irrelevant though
<mitya57> for "official" backports (not in ppa) we can either disable translations or backport sphinx
<dholbach> mitya57, it does not build for me with the footnote reenabled: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1409815/
<mitya57> dholbach, what version of sphinx?
<dholbach> mitya57, it's at the bottom of the pastebin
<dholbach> 1.1.3+dfsg-5ubuntu1~ppa1~12.10
<dholbach> sorry, it got cut off I just noticed
<mitya57> very strage, builds perfectly for me, the patch is the same and is enabled in series
 * mitya57 installs the package from ppa
<mitya57> dholbach, works with sphinx from ppa for me, can you run "make clean" and then try to build again?
<dholbach> mitya57, I built it in a pbuilder
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> nevermind
<dholbach>  /o\
<dholbach> let me get another coffee :)
<dholbach> mitya57, it works
<dholbach> I updated https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/ubuntu-packaging-guide/enable-spanish/+merge/137770
<mitya57> dholbach, looks good, thank you!
<mitya57> the only thing I maybe don't like is "This is the 'es' version." string
<dholbach> mitya57, it's done automatically :)
<mitya57> I know, but maybe we can manually correct it to something better
<mitya57> like "This is the Spanish translation of the guide"
<dholbach> hang on
<dholbach> updated
<mitya57> dholbach, danke, push it
<dholbach> can't believe we're about to fix this :)
<mitya57> re the warnings: it's not our issue, a workaround is https://gist.github.com/4169008
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> mitya57, can you leave a comment on the merge proposal or 'approve' it?
<mitya57> done
<dholbach> ÑÐ¿Ð°ÑÐ¸Ð±Ð¾!
<alo21> TheLordOfTime, hi, can you help me making a package, please?
<TheLordOfTime> no.
<TheLordOfTime> what am I, packager for hire...?
<TheLordOfTime> :/
<alo21> would you?
<TheLordOfTime> <alo21> TheLordOfTime, hi, can you help me making a package, please?
<TheLordOfTime> <TheLordOfTime> no.
 * TheLordOfTime returns to poking at the kernel on his test VM
<coolbhavi> alo21, hey
<alo21> coolbhavi, hi
<coolbhavi> alo21, I guess you contacted me a few days back regarding doc-debian
<coolbhavi> merge
<alo21> coolbhavi, yes
<coolbhavi> alo21, when I tested on my PPA it ftbfs'd due to missing dir
<alo21> coolbhavi, yea me too
<coolbhavi> alo21, hmm
<alo21> and this should not happens because this specific bus is closed
<alo21> bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=690791
<TheLordOfTime> Debian Bug 690791
<ubottu> Debian bug 690791 in doc-debian "building from source an inconvenient process" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/690791
<coolbhavi> alo21, sorry I hadnt had much time to look at the rules file but looks like the hardcoded checkout is not fixed/applicable in ubuntu
<alo21> coolbhavi, hmm... ok thanks
<alo21> coolbhavi, I will leave the package. In this way other people can work on it
<coolbhavi> alo21, :-) your take :)
<alo21> coolbhavi, what do you mean?
<coolbhavi> alo21, if you wish, you can work on it further
<alo21> ok
<alo21> coolbhavi, can I ask you a last thing?
<coolbhavi> alo21, yes
<alo21> coolbhavi, do you thinks this make's guide is good (http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/html_node/index.html#toc_Top)?
<coolbhavi> alo21,  for what purpose?
<alo21> coolbhavi, packaging
<coolbhavi> alo21, you can take a look at the packaging guide of ubuntu
<coolbhavi> for a start
<alo21> the new one on developer.ubuntu.com. Right?
<coolbhavi> yes
<coolbhavi> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/
<alo21> ok. Even if I think it would not be very useful to resolve packaging problem. Did you learn all stuff there?
<TheLordOfTime> most of my packaging knowledge is learned from the packaging guide, as well as gentle nudging in the right direction from Debian mentors, and my dissecting packages :P
 * TheLordOfTime very rarely does much packaging work nowadays outside of bugfixing things.
<ESphynx> dholbach: Thanks for the raring import =)
<ESphynx> Hey guys... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecere-sdk/+bug/1077734 does this look OK for an SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1077734 in ecere-sdk (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please sync ecere-sdk 0.44.02-1 from Raring into Quantal" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ESphynx> "Ask a bug supervisor to target the bug to the appropriate Ubuntu releases" =)
<TheLordOfTime> erm...
<TheLordOfTime> not to be stupid or an ass, but isnt a sync != SRU?
 * TheLordOfTime waits for a MOTU to respond to that
<ESphynx> what should I call it
<ESphynx> i was going to say 'bring in'
<ESphynx> would that be better?
<TheLordOfTime> i dont think they sync anything to quantal, but i'm not a MOTU
<TheLordOfTime> so why don't you wait for them to answer my question :P
<ESphynx> fair enough
<mitya57> ESphynx, doesn't look like a bugfix release
<ESphynx> mitya57: how does it not?
<mitya57> "Added support for a SYSROOT and GCC prefix in Compiler Settings"
<mitya57> "Initial support for the Android platform"
<ESphynx> mitya57: there were a few commits included as well. i didn't do a special branch just for it.
<ESphynx> mitya57: but the point is that the SDK is otherwise uninstallable.
<micahg> ESphynx: no, you should cherry pick the fixes you need for the SRU
<TheLordOfTime> what micahg said, which is why I brought up the sync != SRU
<ESphynx> ugg.
<ESphynx> I don't have time to do that
<TheLordOfTime> Having said this, wouldn't backporting be a potential solution, micahg?
<TheLordOfTime> in that backport from Raring -> Quantal IF it builds and runs and installs?
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: well, the installability should be fixed as an SRU, if one wanted the android support backported, that's a different issue
<ESphynx> the android support is still in the works.
 * TheLordOfTime forgot to mention he assumed that a targetted bugfix would not be possible/
<ESphynx> I just included whatever commit I had in my HEAD at the time
<micahg> we don't backport for bug fixes
<TheLordOfTime> i see.
<micahg> ESphynx: if you ping me next week, I'll see if I can cherry pick the stuff for you quickly
<ESphynx> micahg: K, thanks... I could look through right the commits right now and tell you which ones are likely
<ESphynx> just that there are a number of other bugs that this would have solved as well.
<ESphynx> eww it's going to be very difficult.
<ESphynx> things are sure to conflict.
<ESphynx> I give up. an SRU would be the best... a Backport perhaps would make it installable?
<ESphynx> at any rate I'm late for the office.
<ESphynx> cheers. thanks guys.
<TheLordOfTime> backports for bugfixes are a no-go, and micahg'd know.
<TheLordOfTime> at least, that's how i'm interpreting him.
<ESphynx> well. we're f'ed then.
<ESphynx> Quantal users on 64 bit machines can't use it
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, feel free to confirm/modify my interpretation if its wrong. :P
<ESphynx> there were 2 goals for this 0.44.02 release...
<ESphynx> Be included into Sid ... Failed.
<ESphynx> Fix issues on Quantal/64bit ... Failed.
<TheLordOfTime> isn't sid frozen right now?
<TheLordOfTime> or partly-frozen at least...
<ESphynx> probably why :P
<ESphynx> thought it was frozen for years :P
<TheLordOfTime> they ahve insane freeze times
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<micahg> sid is only "frozen" for packages that need migration to wheezy, new packages can go there anytime AIUI
<ESphynx> thought so
<TheLordOfTime> that's assuming anyone is handling experimental -> sid stuff
<TheLordOfTime> no?
<micahg> and I say "frozen" since maintainers can still upload whatever they want, it just won't mmigrate
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: it's not automatic, requires a new upload
<TheLordOfTime> ah.
<ESphynx> micahg: bug fixes aside, couldn't a new package just be backported?
<TheLordOfTime> yeah, was curious, usually ZNC (which i asked to be synced to raring, which was done) is in sid, not experimental, or it migrates fast.
<TheLordOfTime> so... *shrugs*
<ESphynx> though backport are still not automatic right, so apt-get install ecere-sdk would still not install on a fresh Quantal?
<micahg> ESphynx: only for features, not bug fixes, -backports isn't a way to work around the SRU process
<TheLordOfTime> guess the debian freeze is messing with them :P
<ESphynx> micahg: But not all bug fixes are SRUs?
<ESphynx> there isn't such a clear bug fixes/features separation in our development stream :P
<micahg> yeah, true, if it's not SRU worthy, we'd probably take it in backports, but this is very SRU worthy
<ESphynx> ah ok
<ESphynx> well, damn.
<ESphynx> let me try again.
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, pure curiosity: are security bugs subject to a different process, or also subject to the SRU process?  (in regards to expediency of getting things into -security or -updates)
<TheLordOfTime> or should I be bugging -hardened about that one?
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: different, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation
<TheLordOfTime> that's what i thought, wasn't sure :)
<ESphynx> truth is most of the commits are fixes oriented...
<ESphynx> major bug fixes/minor additions :| the build system changed, so all makefiles changed... and the wanted commits fixing bugs won't work without the build system improvemens
<ESphynx> well thanks again micahg. gotta go now
<micahg> ESphynx: so, ping me next week, we'll see about cherry picking a fix, you'll just be on the hook for the paperwork/testing
<ESphynx> micahg I'd basically have to do the work over again.
<ESphynx> had I known, I would have focused on the SRU first.
<micahg> ESphynx: I thought I told you that weeks ago...(to do a targeted fix for just these issues to Debian)
<ESphynx> It's all about my understanding of the word 'targeted' :)
<TheLordOfTime> FWIW...
<TheLordOfTime> "targetted" basically means highly-specific fixes.
<TheLordOfTime> at least here it does.
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<ESphynx> this was highly specific for me. just not enough :P
<micahg> ESphynx: anyways, the installability should be control file fixes and easily pickable, I'd help you with that next week
 * micahg goes back to hiding now
<ESphynx> micahg: that can probably be cherry-picked easily. problem is I had to change the runtime to look for files in /usr/lib/ec/
<ESphynx> so there are some code changes there as well.
<ESphynx> And I was hoping to also include the fixes I did so the bots could try to build on ARM and PPC again
<ESphynx> and some buffer overflow bugs in there...
<ESphynx> cheers.
<nxvl> jtaylor: ping
<jtaylor> nxvl: ?
<nxvl> jtaylor: hey, i'm trying to backport python-numpy to lucid and saw you are/were doing a lot of work on it
<jtaylor> nxvl: you are better of using the numpy in debian
<nxvl> jtaylor: it'm having a hard time because of dependencies and stuff and i was wondering if you had any pointers on how can i do that
<jtaylor> it still uses pysupport, ubuntus uses dh_python2 which is not available in lucid
<nxvl> jtaylor: awesome, thanks!
<jtaylor> which dependencies?
<nxvl> jtaylor: exactly what you are talking about
<nxvl> the dh_python2 stuff
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-05
<TheLordOfTime> anyone on the backports team alive and willing to look at two backport requests (one depends on the other0
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<geser> dholbach: http://gegen-den-strich.com/428.html
<dholbach> HAHAHA
 * dholbach hugs geser
<ajmitch> hi dholbach, geser
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> how have those hangouts been going?
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<jtaylor> someone know if universe/main will continue to be separated for raring?
<ScottK> Nothing is likely to change.
<xnox> jtaylor: what is your complete question for asking that? Do you have a question about what will happen after archive reorganisation?
<alo21> hi
<alo21> I have a doubt about how to fill in changelog in a merge...
<alo21> If I make some changes, have I to write what I did in the changelog?
<tumbleweed> you always should, yes
<alo21> tumbleweed, I had a lot of changes
<ScottK> You have to document them all.
<jtaylor> xnox: I was told after the reorg we do not have to split source packages anymore
<xnox> jtaylor: correct.
<ScottK> We don't actually have very many of those.
<alo21> tumbleweed, for example I edited Makefile, so I should write  - edit makefie
<xnox> jtaylor: but we are not there yet.
<tumbleweed> alo21: that wouldn't be a vary useful changelog entry
<tumbleweed> alo21: you explain what you did, and why
<alo21> tumbleweed, I am under a voice 'remaining changes'...
<alo21> but I have made new changes, so I suppose I have to write that changes (new one), after and not under 'remaining changes'. Right?
<tumbleweed> correct
<alo21> tumbleweed, for example as here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1413044/
<alo21> tumbleweed, notice that without the patch (mentioned in changelog), the build fails
<TheLordOfTime> i think 'Added new patch' should be 'Added new patch to fix [issue]'
<TheLordOfTime> so people know what the patch does
<TheLordOfTime> just my two cents ;)
<TheLordOfTime> (as a bugs triager, if the given patch introduces a regression, which sometimes happens, its easy to trace what patch(es) cause the issues, then, when the changelog identifies what the "new" patch does.)
<alo21> TheLordOfTime, for example the pace is used to build the package on ubuntu only. My deal is: have that entry be a part the 'remaining change', or not?
<alo21> the patch has been created now (by me) to build the package
<TheLordOfTime> if what you said there is the changelog... and the patch is new, i'm not certain it goes under "remaining changes" because its newly introduced
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed'd know more though, i usually don't handle merges ;P
<TheLordOfTime> in fact, i don't normally.  :P
 * TheLordOfTime was commenting on the lack of a specific description in your statement about a new patch
<alo21> ok thanks anyway
<TheLordOfTime> But if i may interpret tumbleweed here, when he said this is correct: <alo21> but I have made new changes, so I suppose I have to write that changes (new one), after and not under 'remaining changes'. Right?
<TheLordOfTime> I think its safe to assume he means "Yes, it goes after remaining changes, and not a part of remaining changes"
<TheLordOfTime> but that's only based on my observations here and my interpretation, which may be wrong ;P
<alo21> seems to be the most reasonable behaviour
<alo21> done!
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-06
<bobweaver> hello I have crazy banana's troubles going on. I asked this in the main channel but was not able to get any answer's . So I made ppa and packages install and things are not banana's , untill I make unity (2d)and3d packages and try to test on vBox I get lightdm error after installing any unity "failed to load ubuntu session"   ppa is located here https://launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/+archive/ubuntutv     the package that installs the
<bobweaver> xsession thingy is under Scripts/ubuntu-tv-scripts        here is a branch of the ppa  https://code.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/ubuntutv/mockup-ppa-branch      the real kicker is that it is not the xsession light dm thingy that is causeing this trouble and am not sure what is because packages install local (after build) real well. any help is great thanks for reading
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<tumbleweed> dholbach: http://harvest.ubuntu.com/opportunities/?opp.list=bitesize&opp.list=lintian-very-easy is for the bug fixing initiative, right?
<dholbach> tumbleweed, yes - the bitesize might contain some quite specific bits though
<tumbleweed> dholbach: ok, I don't see it linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative, and it also seems to include packages that come from Debian, was that intentional?
<dholbach> I didn't get around to fixing the "have an ubuntu-only fake package-set" bug yet
<dholbach> just too much to do
<tumbleweed> ah, np
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/harvest/+bug/1081997 for reference
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1081997 in harvest "Provide fake package set 'ubuntu-only'" [High,In progress]
<tumbleweed> dholbach: ah, that'd do the job
 * dholbach nods
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/harvest/+bug/1086279 would be nice to get fixed too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1086279 in harvest "Port Harvest to Django >=1.3" [High,New]
<dholbach> that'd make development a bit easier
<dholbach> If there's any django hackers out there who can help with those, you'd have my eternal gratitude if you would help. :)
 * tumbleweed will try to take a look at that
<dholbach> tumbleweed, which one? the one about the package set (I just pushed a branch with some initial work) - or the 'porting'?
<tumbleweed> porting
<dholbach> gotcha
<chilicuil> hi, good morning, sry to bother, what happens if a merge request was rejected but it was accepted in debian?, should I request a sync for the pkg?, or it's gonna happen automatically?, I'm talkin about this: https://code.launchpad.net/~chilicuil/ubuntu/raring/cdo/fix-1023329/+merge/135245 / http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=695009
<ubottu> Debian bug 695009 in cdo "cdo lost data in grib1 files due to using grib_api instead cgribex" [Normal,Fixed]
<jtaylor> chilicuil: it still has ubuntu changes, if they are still needed we need to merge
<jtaylor> from the looks of it it still needs merging
<chilicuil> jtaylor: thanks for answering, I'll check the merging wiki and will see if I can do it
<jtaylor> chilicuil: tumbleweed made the changes, better ask him first
<tumbleweed> oh? looks...
<tumbleweed> chilicuil, jtaylor: I'm happy to merge that, I see my patch hasn't been accepted in debian yet
<chilicuil> tumbleweed: cool, thanks =), I'm still a bit lost, after the merging, I can start the sru process for the patch for precise, quantal, right?
<tumbleweed> chilicuil: you can start the process now, but it can't be accepted until it's fixed in raring
<chilicuil> tumbleweed: ohh, great, then I'll do it now
<tumbleweed> chilicuil: merged
<chilicuil> tumbleweed: thanks!
<ScottK> Sigh.
<ScottK> opencv blocking transitions and neither the one that requested the sync not the sponsor are around.
<ScottK> If someone is looking for useful work, that'd be something to work on getting cleared.
 * ScottK takes a stab at it.
<arosen> If i create my own debian package and dpkg -i foo.deb; is there anyway to prevent someone from doing apt-get install foo; so they don't get the version from an external debian repo?
<arosen> so they get some kind of warning that they are about to unless the current version they have?
* You're now known as ubuntulog
 * dupondje just updated to raring ^^
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-07
<dholbach> good morning
<achiang> dholbach: good morning
<dholbach> hey achiang
<bdrung> \o/ the sponsor queue is below 50
<dholbach> bdrung, not quite 0, but a definite improvement! :)
<bdrung> dholbach: yes. we are half there ;)
<alo21> hi everybody...
<alo21> I have a question about tjis:
<alo21> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/doc-debian/+bug/1086940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1086940 in doc-debian (Ubuntu) "Merge doc-debian 4.0.2ubuntu1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Fix released]
<alo21> this*
<alo21> Launchpad Janitor set the bug as 'fix released', and in fact the new package had been uploaded for Raring
<alo21> my question is: why Launchpad Janitor did this? I mean motu usually take care about it (sponsoring), and not LP Janitor
<jtaylor> its automatic if the bugs are closed in the changelog
<alo21> jtaylor, and who merged the package?
<alo21> a motu?
<jtaylor> jamespage
<jtaylor> sponsored your merge
<jamespage> alo21, jtaylor: I most certainly did :-)
<alo21> jamespage, jtaylor I made this question, because I see it for my first time
<jtaylor> the information is here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/doc-debian/6.1ubuntu1
<bdrung> alo21: look at "sponsored by" on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/doc-debian/6.1ubuntu1
<alo21> bdrung, yea.. thanks
<alo21> jtaylor, may I ask you a last thing?
<bdrung> alo21, jamespage: re the doc-debian merge. the remaining change for 6.1ubuntu1 is completely different than 4.0.2ubuntu1
<bdrung> and the ubuntu diff from 4.0.2ubuntu1 was dropped
<bdrung> was that intentional?
<alo21> bdrung, I attached the debdiff between the old and the new Ubuntu, because I made it in other package.
<alo21> a motu-member accepted the debdiff between the two ubuntu's version
 * alo21 afk
<jamespage> bdrung, it is; thats my bad for not ensuring that was documented.
<jamespage> its actually more of a re-sync with debian and fix the build failure.
<bdrung> okay. a better changelog entry would be good next time
<Logan_> jamespage: Hey, are you around?
<jamespage> Logan_, yes
<Logan_> jamespage: Do you have any idea why the clamsmtp merge I did caused an amd64 FTBFS/fail to upload to archive?
<Logan_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamsmtp/1.10-11ubuntu1/+build/4044824 says it failed to upload, but the build log says that it built successfully.
<jamespage> Logan_: I would suspect some sort of transient issue - I've pressed the rebuild button
<jamespage> lets see if it does it again
<Logan_> kk
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-08
<gnomefreak> anyone know if libbamf0 is still needed in 13.04?
<jtaylor> ... the parallel package in debian/ubuntu is really screwed up :/
<jtaylor> a shame for such a nice program
<gnomefreak> do we still need the package libbamf0 in 13.04?
<jtaylor> ginn still needs it
<ricotz> it doesnt ;)
<jtaylor> it at least needs a rebuild then
<ricotz> the current binary doesnt depend on it
<jtaylor> hm yes reverse-depends is jsut out of date
<penguin42> number of mostly dead upstream packages that have trivial faults found by fortify is kind of depressing
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-09
<mfisch> can someone explain why some packages, for example, curl, are not in merge-o-matic?
<micahg> mfisch: MoM merges against unstable, curl has an update in experimental
<mfisch> micahg: thanks!
<TheLordOfTime> any backporters around?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-02
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<hakermania>  If I have uploaded an earlier version of my application and thus I had a sponsor for it, should I contact him for a new version of the app and a new library not in the repos which is a dependency of this new version of the application?
<Laney> hakermania: I don't think so, use the sponsor queue as normal (for new packages I advise you use Debian, again as normal)
<hakermania> Laney, yes, I've already sent the library to Debian, and I want to start programming the application to use the library, but as I intend the application to be in 14.04 I want a sure way to have the library quickly reviewed and pushed into the repos.
<hakermania> "sent the library to Debian" = for review. It isn't in the repos yet.
<Laney> ok, well if you need to then use the normal process
<Laney> it's fine to point your old sponsor to it, but they may not have time to look for you
<hakermania> Laney, when a package is accepted in Debian how long does it take to show up in ubuntu repos (or is it immediately on "apt-get update" ?)
<Laney> hakermania: a few days for new sources usually (up to debian import freeze)
<hakermania> Laney, is there a way to find out who my previous sponsor was :P I've completely forgotten.
<hakermania> I think it was ScottK but I'm not sure at all.
<Adri2000> hakermania: gpg --verify on the .dsc will tell you who signed the source package
<Laney> go to http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<package>/+changelog and click on the version you want and then look for the "Sponsored by" field
<Laney> or find it on <release>-changes and look for Signed-by
<Adri2000> or that :)
<Laney> If you can get the dsc you can probably see it via one of those other two methods
<Laney> but that also works :P
<mitya57> Or look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/RELEASE/+source/PACKAGE/VERSION
<hakermania> Yep, the gpg matches ScottK's
<Laney> I usually can't remember the exact version
<hakermania> Thanks guys
<aeoril> I am here:  http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html  but when I read about using the development version of Ubuntu to develop with, it gets confusing - should I be using testdrive?
<Noskcaj> aeoril, testdrive is for running the developement version in a VM. If you have the devel version as your OS or a schoot (pbuilder) of the devel version, you don't need it
<aeoril> I have read the topic here and am now redirecting my web research to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing - it is quite different.  Is the MOTU team still the best way to get involved in contributing to Ubuntu as a developer (not apps, but Ubuntu itself)?
<Noskcaj> aeoril, If you are interesting in packaging, yes. There is also a number of ubuntu specific apps, testing tools (testdrive and automated tests), and bug fixing
<aeoril> nosk
<aeoril> Noskcajk I had been told previously MOTU was a good place to start because most if not all development requires packaging, so it is a good place to start (MOTU) as launch point for most development related work
<Noskcaj> aeoril, yep
<Noskcaj> tip: You can autocomplete a name in irc by pressing TAB
<aeoril> Noskcaj yes, I know - that was a finger gone haywire :)
<Noskcaj> ok
<aeoril> A while ago I was active on Ubuntu - but it has been some years, and I did not do much - https://launchpad.net/~sanbar
<aeoril> I am pondering what to do with my free time and am thinking about re-engaging with Ubuntu
<Noskcaj> awesome. A good place to start is http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ , which has a number of pages for things you can do for the motu team
<aeoril> Noskcaj ok, cool - thanks!
<Noskcaj> xnox, Mind if i merge handbrake?
<Noskcaj> I've run out of merges i can do that i have been allowed to
<Noskcaj> And lives is probably syncable
<xnox> Noskcaj: go ahead.
<Noskcaj> Anyone have merges i can take? (All the current "please take"s need programming languages i don't know)
<jtaylor> Noskcaj: if you are really bored you can have a look why skimage autopkgtests fail
<jtaylor> I can't reproduce the issue locally
<Noskcaj> jtaylor, I'll have a look, but autopkgtest isn't something i'm remotely good at
<Noskcaj> how do i see the failure?
<jtaylor> Noskcaj: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-skimage/
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-03
<mfisch> Noskcaj: I'm looking at lm-sensors
<mfisch> do we want to drop dependencies on dh-systemd?
<Noskcaj> mfisch, does anything get hurt by systemd in this case? Going off the bug, it's more an addition than forcing anything
<mfisch> Well to be honest I'm not sure what impact it has
<mfisch> the package exists in Ubuntu already
<Noskcaj> I reckon just merge it, we've got plenty of time to fix if anything bad is introduced. the bug is at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=714190
<ubottu> Debian bug 714190 in lm-sensors "Use dh-systemd for proper systemd-related maintscripts" [Normal,Fixed]
<mfisch> yeah I'm reading that bug now
<mfisch> looks like it will drop a systemd file into the system
<mfisch> I wonder if we have a policy or guideline on systemd files like this
<mfisch> I dont work at Canonical anymore so at least whatever I do will not be news on OMGUbuntu
<Unit193> Real systemd isn'
<Unit193> t in the repo, only this shim.
<mfisch> the dep is on dh-systemd, not real systemd
<mfisch> looks like it's fine to leave it'
<mfisch> Noskcaj: dputting now
<Unit193> Sure, was just saying that the real systemd isn't actually installable, so the systemd scripts aren't exactly usable.  Several other things build-dep on it though, so in theory shouldn't cause an issue here either.
<mfisch> well I cannot upload it
<mfisch> I wonder if my ubuntu.com email changing caused it
<lifeless> upload keys off of gpg key
<lifeless> -> LP account
<lifeless> -> team membership
<lifeless> -> package sets etc
<mfisch> yeah I was wondering that
<mfisch> so the rejection is that I dont have rights to main
<mfisch> but lm-sensors is universe
<lifeless> is all of it ?
<lifeless> as in - all the binaries it builds
<Noskcaj> mfisch, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lm-sensors says it's all main
<mfisch> wth
<mfisch> I just looked
<mfisch> apt-cache show shows universe
<Unit193> showsrc contains: Directory: pool/main/l/lm-sensors
<mfisch> ah okay it's some in some not
<mfisch> and if it's partial I guess the source package lives in main
<mfisch> thx for the help with this mystery
<mfisch> Noskcaj: I'll push a debdiff tomorrow so it can be sponsored
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> HAH, sponsor-patch is magic
<Laney> it noticed that a merge forgot to close the merge bug
<Laney> GRR
<Laney> it failed to sign the changesfile for me, and instead bailed out and deleted the working directory
<Laney> oho, I'd already filed that
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-04
<lfaraone> debfx_: per bug 1257592 , can you verify that quassel-client-qt4 is now not not installable without ignoring recommends? If so, I can quickly push an update to drop the recently added Conflicts:.
<ubottu> bug 1257592 in quassel (Ubuntu) "quassel-client-qt4 depends on quassel-qt4-data and quassel-data , which now conflict" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1257592
<debfx> lfaraone: doh, I'll do the upload.
<debfx> one ships usr/share/apps/quassel as a symlink and the other as a dir. I guess it doesn't cause any issues in practice.
<lfaraone> debfx: no worries, I already have it prepped.
<debfx> lfaraone: ah ok, then go ahead.
<lfaraone> done.
<dholbach> good morning
<Allah> !ops
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-05
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-06
<chilicuil> hi, I've just requested to merge https://code.launchpad.net/~chilicuil/ubuntu/trusty/wicd/fix-1132529/+merge/197998 who fixes bug #1132529, I'm unsure however if I should suscribe a team or something, currently only the 'Ubuntu branches' has been suscribed (automatically)
<ubottu> bug 1132529 in wicd (Ubuntu) "Can't start wicd daemon" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132529
<Unit193> chilicuil: I was looking at that earlier this week, all you'd need is lexists.  It's be fixed in upstream bzr to actually work with resolvconf though, so didn't touch it.
<chilicuil> Unit193: lexists?, I reviewed upstream code and didn't see anything who could suggest it was fixed, did you test it?
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wicd-devel/wicd/experimental/view/head:/wicd/wicd-daemon.py#L1791  But no, I didn't try it.
<chilicuil> Unit193: the thing is that even when it exist, os.path.exists will return false when that link exist but is broken, https://bugs.launchpad.net/wicd/+bug/1193856
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1132529 in wicd (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1193856 Can't start wicd daemon" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Unit193> Yes, I know: http://docs.python.org/2/library/os.path.html#os.path.lexists
<Unit193> chilicuil: Thanks for taking a look and fixing. :)
<dholbach> good morning
<Unit193> Howdy.
<chilicuil> Unit193: i just took tommy work and formalize it =)
<Unit193> The upstream code as it is now seems to check if it's a link, and create a new link as a backup rather than moving, thus breaking, the old link.
<dholbach> gaspa, warp10_: do you think we can find somebody in the Italian translations community to have a look at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/? there are like 300 unreviewed, but translated strings :)
<warp10_> dholbach: let me check with Gwaihir and the translation team, maybe they want to take care of it
<dholbach> warp10, that'd be awesome - like... a lot of the work is already done
<dholbach> warp10, and once we get up to 70% translations, we can package it as well
<warp10> dholbach: indeed
<Noskcaj> Can someone try and merge dahdi-linux? It's a long way off debian
<dholbach> warp10, almost 40% is done - I just checked :)
<warp10> dholbach: I pinged the FCM translation team as well. Its leader is mapreri, a prospective MOTU who's doing great things in Ubuntu Development: feel free to blackmail him until he applies to the DMB
<dholbach> warp10, awesome!
<dholbach> :)
<Noskcaj> cjwatson, Mind if i merge elilo? It's not had an ubuntu upload since O-series
<ricotz> debfx, hi :), maybe you like to grab those vbox packages for trusty https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/virtualization/+packages
<debfx> ricotz: another debian developer is working on updating the vbox package to 4.3, he'll probably upload it to debian shortly.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-08
<hjd> Hi all, how can I request a package rebuild? For instance bug 1249097 seem to go away after a rebuild.
<ubottu> bug 1249097 in gearmand (Ubuntu) "gearadmin crashes on launch" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1249097
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-01
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-02
<dholbach> good morning
<Logan_> well this is a new one. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-googlecloudapis/0.9.30+debian1-1ubuntu1/+build/6612197
<Logan_> > has 42 file(s) with a time stamp too far in the past (e.g. usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/googlecloudapis/apitools/base/py/stream_slice.py [Tue Jan  1 08:00:00 1980])
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-03
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-04
<dholbach> good morning
<kkirsche> hey everyone, I'm trying to get started with, what I think, should be the easiest of packaging tasks ââ which is that I would like to take a the NodeJS package (v 0.10.25) and update it to the source found at http://nodejs.org (v. 0.10.33). I have gotten the source using bzr branch ubuntu:nodejs nodejs.dev, then gotten the upstream tarball (bzr get-orig-source). From here, cd.., then bzr branch nodejs.de
<kkirsche> v bug-1103044. I then update the files in bug-1103044 with the files from Node's source. dch -i and say it's an Upstream update (LP: #1103044) and do bzr commit. If I try bzr builddeb -S though I get the a few No such file or directory errors for /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules and get "make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk'. Stop."
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1103044 in nodejs (Ubuntu) "outdated version of nodejs (ubuntu 12.04 / 12.10 / 13.04 / 14.04)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103044
<kkirsche> and this point I'm kind of lost in how to provide this update as Node's build process works (./configure, make, make install)
<kkirsche> any help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-05
<dholbach> good morning
<elopio> barry: do you have some time to help me preparing a package to be installed for py2 and py3?
<barry> elopio: i'm pretty slammed today but i can try to help briefly
<elopio> barry: I can wait for next week. But if you have some time, this is the MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa/uci-tests/py3-packaging/+merge/243758
<barry> elopio: next week will be *much* better ;)
<elopio> so far I've only ported things to py3, so I'm not sure if I'm following the correct style here.
<elopio> and I have a big problem with making the entry_point available in both.
<elopio> barry: I'll ping you on monday.
<barry> elopio: +1
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-07
<HFSPLUS> !ops | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XslbMYLexu4 <--- REPENT
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-30
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-01
<dholbach> good morning
<teward> MOTUs!  Question: if Debian is super slow at providing an updated pacakge, is there a way to get Ubuntu to temporarily ship (such that it'd be superseded by Debian autosync) an updated version of the software while bypassing Debian?
<teward> (because Debian developer sponsorship is slow as sin compared to here)
<Unit193> Unless you're trying to touch something core, then sponsorship/review could take releases apart.
<teward> Unit193: makes total sense, actually, but given that there's been no movement in Debian on this (according to the upstream maintainer themselves) :/
<teward> it's been sitting for sponsoring in Debian for... oo a better part of a year
<sladen> teward: that why Ubuntu packages are  -0ubuntuN, it means they are lower numbered that Debian's -1 of the same package
<teward> my question is the review/sponsorship process / timeline
<teward> less so the version numbering :P
<teward> is it processed like a NEW package being added to Universe?
<teward> s/NEW/'new'/
 * teward kicks his caps-lock key
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-02
<teward> sladen: what's the process for inclusion consideration for that though?
<teward> same as any NEW package?
<teward> (it's at least a few years out of date hence why there's the question, and it's a program that has no rdepends in Universe)
<sladen> make the case that the improvements outweigh the extra effort
<teward> is the process for beginning documented?  such as debdiffs for upload, etc. and what the bug if any should say?
<rbasak> teward: if it's already in Ubuntu but at a lower version, then it's just the usual upload process. No archive admin required. Anyone with upload rights on the package can sponsor it.
<rbasak> teward: assuming I've understood you right. You want to update an existing package in Ubuntu to a new upstream release ahead of Debian?
<rbasak> teward: it won't autosync after Debian do catch up however. It will require a sync request.
<dholbach> good morning
<teward> rbasak: correct, your analysis is right
<teward> rbasak: it already exists in Ubuntu but is 3 years out of date, upstream would love it bumped up for X-series 'cause bugfixes and such, but I've not seen the upstream's package code nor done a debdiff
<teward> and since nobody here has upload rights it needs sponsoring
<teward> (if I had upload rights that'd be a done-and-done situation xD)
<rbasak> teward: it's fine to do it in Ubuntu then though it is a maintenance burden so I would consider how important it is for Ubuntu users.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-03
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-04
<dholbach> good morning
<sladen> buengiros
<Unit193> Newsbeuter in Ubuntu has a huuuuge memory leak, https://sigma.unit193.net/source/newsbeuter_2.9-0ubuntu1.dsc fixes this.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-12-05
<fossfreedom> Hi all - project lead of Ubuntu Budgie here.  I know the sponsors queue is very full at the moment - just wondering if anyone can spare a little bit of time to give us some feedback with our ubuntu-budgie-meta package currently in the queue?  Think this is the last step before asking for ISOs to be produced ... correct?
<mapreri> tbh, except usual packaging stuff (like, why didn't you use a DEP5 copyright in 2016?) I wouldn't even know what to look into such package.
<mapreri> and "Copyright 2004" that looks kinda old
<mapreri> and, I doubt that is canonical backed anyway, so it can't be all copyright canonical now, can it.
<mapreri> fossfreedom: are you ok if I drop stuff here, or would you rather prefer to have me write this on the bug report?
<fossfreedom> if you can drop it in the bug report I can then plough my way through that. cheers
<fossfreedom> FYI - talking through with Jeremy Bicha - start point was the ubuntu-gnome-meta package
<mapreri> fossfreedom: you're saying: you just took the ubuntu-gnome-meta package, and construct ubuntu-budgie-meta around it?
<fossfreedom> correct ... was I wrong to start from that?
<mapreri> that's good.  Just is very common for ubuntu-only packages to not be up to current best practice (where instead *some* debian maintainers are very good at)
<mapreri> so in this case dep5 copyright.  and since 2 months debhelper 10.
<fossfreedom> will fix that.
<mapreri> fossfreedom: btw, why are you not using Architecture:any?   IOW: what's up with s390x?
<mapreri> (well, I know you're not going to run  a desktop there, probably, but still)
<mapreri> fossfreedom: Maintainer: wouldn't be better to have a group here?
<fossfreedom> tbh - no idea about s390x - it was in the ubuntu-gnome-meta package.
<fossfreedom> does the group come from the developer-membership-board? - I could just use the team name ubuntubudgie-dev
<mapreri> "  * Skip build of s390x while it is incomplete and uninstallable" (from 2015-12-23).  I suggest you reinstate Arch:any for the first upload at least, and possibly tweak later.
<fossfreedom> k - thnx
<mapreri> looking always at the ubuntu-gnome-meta it uses ubuntu-gnome@lists.u.c/ LP ~ubuntu-gnome.  Dunno, do you have any list on lists.u.c yet?  (no idea how those are handled)
<mapreri> otherwise you could create a ML on ~ubuntubudgie-dev and use that, I guess.  In general is very very rare for ubuntu packages to have a single human maintainer, given that the concept of Maintainer in ubuntu is very much meaningless.
<fossfreedom> k - will hit the "ccreate a mailing list" button here https://launchpad.net/~ubuntubudgie-dev
<mapreri> well, same for https://code.launchpad.net/~fossfreedom/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-budgie.zesty :)  I suggest you move to the same team (you can do it anytime later too, don't do it now :))
<fossfreedom> :)
<mapreri> right
<mapreri> W: ubuntu-budgie-meta source: out-of-date-standards-version 3.9.7 (current is 3.9.8)
<mapreri> W: ubuntu-budgie-desktop: description-synopsis-starts-with-article
<mapreri> fossfreedom: shall I copy all of this to the bug?
<fossfreedom> I can do that. cheers
<mapreri> oh last thing: in the Architecture field of that binary you have a trailing whitespace
<mapreri> guess this is all; there is only so much about a metapackage :3
<mapreri> if you manage to update it soon I might also upload it, btw.  Or later, I might watch a movie now, if I manage to pick one :)
<fossfreedom> cracking on with it now.  Shouldn't take long (famous last words) ... thanks for your time!
<fossfreedom> ping mapreri - I have revised the package and bug-report - details of the changes are on the bug-report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1645234
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1645234 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] needs packaging ubuntu-budgie-meta and associated seed" [Wishlist,In progress]
<mapreri> fossfreedom: ack, 5 minutes and I'll look at it again
<mapreri> uh, you didn't really need to copy-paste the whole raw discussion on the bug :)
<fossfreedom> oops
<mapreri> oh, well, more like 20 minutes after all
<fossfreedom> ah - well - must have been a good movie!
<mapreri> recently I've been making up for not have watched a whole lot of important movies of the "past", like Pirates of the Caribbean, which I've never watched till this year....
<mapreri> fossfreedom: why did desktop-{recommends,}-s390x disappeared?  won't that lead to an package without any dependency in s390x?
<fossfreedom> oh - I thought that is what you were recommending - I've removed all the s390x references so I presume no builds will result.
<mapreri> uh, no
<mapreri> Sorry I've been unclear.
<mapreri> I meant, just build the whole s390x package fully, and if needed then (after it has been uploaded, built, accepted, etc) possibly tweak it to account for whatever problems there might be there (but I can't foresee any, and if there are it'd probably be better to fix them elsewhere).
<fossfreedom> k - so I should re-add the s390x stuff again?
<mapreri> yes please
<fossfreedom> k - looking at this now.  cheers.
<mapreri> don't worry about the version; I can just put it to 0.1 locally before the actual final upload, if you'd like 0.1 as a first version :)
<fossfreedom> mapreri: have now refreshed the package with s390x.  Yes please with the 0.1 version!
<mapreri> --- ubuntu-budgie-meta-0.1/debootstrap-version	2016-12-05 21:55:20.000000000 +0100
<mapreri> +++ ubuntu-budgie-meta-0.1.1/debootstrap-version	2016-12-06 00:45:33.000000000 +0100
<mapreri> @@ -1 +1 @@
<mapreri> -1.0.81+nmu1ubuntu1.2
<mapreri> +1.0.81
<mapreri> fossfreedom: why is this now? ââ (I admit I have no clue what that file is)
<fossfreedom> 1.0.81 is the zesty version - nmu1ubuntu1.2 was a carry over from some old version ubuntu-gnome-meta had - apparently the current version in zesty is 1.0.81ubuntu3 but I guess this will change over the development cycle
<mapreri> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2016-12-06
 * mapreri finds the output of germinate during the build very up to its name
<mapreri> Uploading ubuntu-budgie-meta_0.1_source.changes
<fossfreedom> mapreri - you sir are an officer and a gentleman!  cheers.
<mapreri> fossfreedom: You know, you are actually the first person for which I sponsor an upload to Ubuntu over IRC \o/
<mapreri> I've done countless for Debian, that's the first for Ubunutu ^^
<fossfreedom> yay!
<mapreri> fossfreedom: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-budgie-meta/0.1 - You might want to actually add your email to your profile
<fossfreedom> pheww... tomorrows job is to work out how to-do a pull request on  lp:ubuntu-cdimage .... almost there!
<fossfreedom> yep will do with my email.
<mapreri> oh, already "Accepted" too?  How come they don't have to go through NEW despite this being the first upload to the ubuntu archive?
<mapreri> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/amd64/ubuntu-budgie-desktop/0.0.1 - umh.
<mapreri> this is very interesting from my side.
<fossfreedom> 0.0.1 ?
<mapreri> It looks like dholbach actually already sponsored 0.0.1 one week ago, and left no trace where somebody would usually go look to.  like, why didn't the bug get closed with the upload.
<mapreri> I mean, not even you that are quite interested in the project (I suppose) noticed it!
<fossfreedom> really? Now I'm very confused.  I didn't get any notification.
<mapreri> The "don't get any notification" is imho a problem of the ubuntu archive (iow: launchpad), which emails only the signer.
<mapreri> but I'd have expected the bug to be closed/notified either manually or automatically given that you're closing it.
<mapreri> (I'm very confused too)
<fossfreedom> yep - I've just got a "fix committed" email
<mapreri> that was me doing it manually
<fossfreedom> oh
<mapreri> but when the packages migrates from proposed to the release pocket it should go to "Fix released".
<fossfreedom> k - so now that you've uploaded v0.1 to proposed this will overwrite v0.0.1 that daniel uploaded?
<mapreri> yep
<fossfreedom> excellent news.
<mapreri> It'll be visible only in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-budgie-meta/+publishinghistory then (which is not something one would usually look at)
<fossfreedom> k - going to have to crash now - well past midnight here.  Many thanks for all of your help today.  Much appreciated!
<mapreri> oh well, let me move on; please ping if there is any trouble I haven't thought of (which is none)
<mapreri> it's 1.20 am here, but why sleep :>
<fossfreedom> :)
<bluesabre_> Hello MOTUs, the Xubuntu team would like to add a new package to the archive. We have a new package bug report filed at lp 1641300
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1641300 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] sgt-launcher" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1641300
<alez_> hi
#ubuntu-motu 2017-12-06
<Atiz> Hi! I have a kind request. Could the drivers for Corsair keyboards (ckb-next) please be added to the repos?
#ubuntu-motu 2018-12-03
<Rhonda> Hmm.  Looking into the packages.ubuntu.com issue right now.  And somehow the log doesn't enlighten me.  xD
<Laney> /o\
<Rhonda> Hmm, the system seems to be quite loaded, can't even log in (after I had connect issues because of work distraction)
<Rhonda> alright, logging in doesn't really work.  :/
<Rhonda> debug1: Entering interactive session. â¦ and there I'm stuck.  :/
<Rhonda> [Mon Dec  3 10:49:49 2018] Out of memory: Kill process 28375 (/usr/sbin/apach) score 25 or sacrifice child
<Rhonda> â¦ redirecting myself to #canonical-sysadmin.  :)
