#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-09
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Brandon Holtsclaw: Premium Newrelic Accounts for AWS <http://www.brandonholtsclaw.com/blog/2012/free-newrelic-for-aws-and-azure>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Matt Fischer: How Does udev Know Whatâs a Keyboard or Mouse? <http://www.mattfischer.com/blog/?p=182>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Ohio - Burning Circle: Burning Circle Episode 77 <http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/node/105>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Aaron Toponce: High Capacity Color Barcode <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/pthree/~3/XkZMOQtANbQ/>
<jussi> Anyone care to speculate how the Jolla news affects Ubuntu phone. Do we think Mer apps will run nicely on ubuntu? How much adaption will they need?
<AlanBell> jussi: what is the Jolla news, I missed that?
<jussi> http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/07/jolla-promises-meego-will-live-on-plans-new-smartphone/
<AlanBell> I am investigating getting boot to gecko running on my phone
<jussi> I think we will see several bits and peices coming out of the ruins of Nokia
<AlanBell> that looks pretty cool, HTML5 focussed like boot2gecko
<AlanBell> it would be nice if that was kind of a third platform for developing stuff
<AlanBell> iOS/Android Dalvic/HTML5
<AlanBell> and actually the HTML5 stuff should work across all the phones
<AlanBell> or have a decent chance of doing so
<jussi> AlanBell: yup
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Lubuntu Blog: PCManFM 1.0 <http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/2012/07/pcmanfm-10.html>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Benjamin Mako Hill: Wiki Conferencing <http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/20120701-00> || Benjamin Mako Hill: The Global Iron Blogger Network <http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/20120709-00>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: s.fox: Ubuntu App Showdown â Update <http://serial-coder.co.uk/blog/2012/07/ubuntu-app-showdown-update/> || The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 273 <http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/07/09/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-273/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-273>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Charlene Tessier: Make It Yours â A Guide to Lenses and Scopes <http://frenchfortunecookie.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/make-it-yours-a-guide-to-lenses-and-scopes/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Tony Whitmore: Kelly and Luke â a sneak preview <http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/07/09/kelly-and-luke-a-sneak-preview/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=kelly-and-luke-a-sneak-preview>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Kernel Team: [Quantal] linux kernel 3.5.0-4.4 uploaded (ABI Bump) <http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/2012/07/09/quantal-linux-kernel-3-5-0-4-4-uploaded-abi-bump/>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-10
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Gerfried Fuchs: Mermaids Reloaded <http://rhonda.deb.at/blog/2012/07/10#mermaids-reloaded>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Thomas Mashos: Ubuntu TV Updates! <http://www.mashos.com/2012/07/ubuntu-tv-updates.html>
<jussi> Im glad thomas is doing that ^^^
<jussi> its somethign the community has been crying out for for a long time...
<AlanBell> indeed
<AlanBell> and that is the second update I think, it is good to see something is happening on it
<jussi> I think tats a referral to the first, but yeah. I liked the way that they have a nice list of ways the community can get involved
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: David Planella: Heads up to all Ubuntu App Showdown participants <http://davidplanella.wordpress.com/2012/07/10/heads-up-to-all-ubuntu-app-showdown-participants/>
<AlanBell> so it is
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jorge Castro: boot-info-script <http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/07/10/boot-info-script/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Vincent Untz: In Geneva for the RMLL <http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/2012/07/10/In-Geneva-for-the-RMLL>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Victor Tuson Palau: [Juju adventure] Android <http://victorpalau.net/2012/07/10/juju-adventure-android/> || Marcin Juszkiewicz: OpenEmbedded again <http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2012/07/10/openembedded-again/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Kernel Team: Kernel Team Meeting Minutes â July 10, 2012 <http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/2012/07/10/kernel-team-meeting-minutes-july-10-2012/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu TV: Ubuntu TV Weekly Update <http://www.doadjustyourset.com/2012/07/09/ubuntu-tv-weekly-update/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jono Bacon: Forthcoming CLS/OSCON Schedule <http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/10/forthcoming-clsoscon-schedule/>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-11
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Paul Tagliamonte: The "hell-server" <http://blog.pault.ag/post/26942959392> || Elizabeth Krumbach: My friends at FOSSCON 2012 <http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=6448> || Brandon Holtsclaw: How Not to Fail at the Cloud <http://www.brandonholtsclaw.com/blog/2012/how-not-to-fail-at-the-cloud>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Benjamin Kerensa: How To Setup IPv6 on Ubuntu 12.04 with Tunnelbroker <http://benjaminkerensa.com/2012/07/10/how-to-setup-ipv6-on-ubuntu-12-04-with-tunnelbroker>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Vincent Untz: GUADEC 2012 program is published! <http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/2012/07/11/GUADEC-2012-program-is-published>
<AlanBell> canonical are sponsoring GUADEC
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Launchpad News: Webinar on Ubuntu MAAS: Metal as a Service <http://blog.launchpad.net/general/maas-webinar>
<jussi> cool
<arian__> hello I want to get a distro for the slow internet in iran    what distro do you think is better?
<AlanBell> hi arian__
<arian__> hello AlanBell
<arian__> can you help for choose a distro?
<AlanBell> Ubuntu is good, you might find chromium or google chrome are faster browsers than firefox on slow links perhaps
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ir
<arian__> I want a distro that  is very very stable for python and php programming   .....
<AlanBell> might be someone to contact via that link who can maybe send you a CD
<arian__> tnx
<arian__> :D
<arian__> does they have the dvd ? for the softwares on that?
<AlanBell> http://forum.ubuntu.ir/ that looks like a good place to find people to contact
<arian__> How do you know I am a persian? Are you on #ubuntu ?
<arian__> yes yes I remind
<arian__> :D
<arian__> I remember
<arian__> how is cinnamon?
<arian__> I listened people say linux mint is with codecs and with apps that people want is this realy?
<AlanBell> "15:05 < arian__> hello I want to get a distro for the slow internet in iran" thats how I know :)
<AlanBell> I dunno about cinnamon/mint Ubuntu does what I want it to do really
<arian__> can i install all paa s on linux mint?
<arian__> can i install unity on linux mint
<arian__> ?
<AlanBell> I have no idea, why not just use Ubuntu?
<AlanBell> really never quite understood the point of mint
<arian__> is chakra ubuntu based?
<AlanBell> looks like it is based on Arch
<arian__> can you say 4 best distors ubuntu based?
<AlanBell> there are things like xubuntu and lubuntu and kubuntu but personally I just use Ubuntu
<AlanBell> those are all based on the same repositories but with different desktop environments
<arian__> is there another distro like linuxmint ubuntu based?
<AlanBell> probably, but they will be less well supported than Ubuntu itself
<AlanBell> people keep making them and abandoning them
<AlanBell> it really is a waste of effort 90% of the time
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: FabiÃ¡n RodrÃ­guez: If you still want Thunderbird in Ubuntuâ¦ <http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/2012/07/11/if-you-still-want-thunderbird-in-ubuntu>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: AurÃ©lien GÃ¢teau: Akademy 2012 <http://agateau.com/2012/07/11/akademy-2012/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jono Bacon: Thunderbird and Ubuntu <http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/11/thunderbird-and-ubuntu/>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-12
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Andrew Pollock: [tech] Polar epically anti-developer? A product review of the Polar WearLinkÂ®+ transmitter with BluetoothÂ® <http://blog.andrew.net.au/2012/07/11#polar_bluetooth_hrm>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Barneedhar: Test Quantal kernels on Precise <http://unbrokenspectrum.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/test-quantal-kernels-on-precise/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: FabiÃ¡n RodrÃ­guez: LibreOffice 3.5.5 released â categorized bug fixes <http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/2012/07/12/libreoffice-3-5-5-released-categorized-bug-fixes>
<Tm_T> yay for bug fix releases
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Marcin Juszkiewicz: ODROID-X developer board <http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2012/07/12/odroid-x-developer-board/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu App Developer Blog: The Ubuntu App Showdown â review is in full swing! <http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/07/the-ubuntu-app-showdown-review-is-in-full-swing/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Kubuntu: KDE Telepathy 0.4 - Call for Testing <http://www.kubuntu.org/ktp-0.4>
<IdleOne> ^ that PPA is 404
<IdleOne> Would have liked to test.
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-13
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Aaron Toponce: 16:9 Sucks <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/pthree/~3/hKkKKo8VxYo/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Amber Graner: Meaning and Benefits of Community Contribution <http://akgraner.com/?p=1273>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: David Henningsson: Top five wrong ways to fix your audio <http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways-to-fix-your-audio/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu App Developer Blog: Ubuntu App Showdown: let the voting begin! <http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/07/ubuntu-app-showdown-let-the-voting-begin/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Launchpad News: Launchpad does not have private projectsâ¦yet. <http://blog.launchpad.net/general/launchpad-does-not-have-private-projects-yet>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Dustin Kirkland: Let's celebrate the 100th release of eCryptfs utils! <http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2012/07/lets-celebrate-100th-release-of.html>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-14
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Xubuntu: Thank you Xubuntu social media admins <http://xubuntu.org/news/thank-you-xubuntu-social-media-admins/>
<benjamingwynn> oCean, psh
<benjamingwynn> brb all
<CAZ_au> Ouch, just looked at the nvidia v295.40 Ubuntu Software center page and the ratings were harsh, many problems apparently but im on  the same version and have had no problems really. Only thing i can say is the sometimes annoying blank program windows that i have to maximises and restore to see everything again problem but weather thats the g/card who knows. (GTX 560 Ti SOC)
<CAZ_au> anyone have problems with the recommended nvidia release version.
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Carter: Debconf 12 â Managua, Nicaragua <http://jonathancarter.org/2012/07/14/debconf-12-managua-nicaragua/>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-15
<Jagst3r15> unity runs on top of GNOME correct?
<chu> Yep, Unity is a shell on top of GNOME3. In the same way gnome-shell is a shell on top of GNOME3.
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Paul Tagliamonte: usage of vcs-git in the Debian archive <http://blog.pault.ag/post/27268910152> || Elizabeth Krumbach: Xubuntu Presentation at FeltonLUG <http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=6458>
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-07-11
<Dextrome> So what about that Ubuntu, huh?
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-06
<histo> TJ-: in regards to ubottu, it seems they removed a bunch of useful suggestions and ignore new ones.
<daftykins> yep sounds about right
<daftykins> every time i suggest something it gets ignored
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> My shift is at an end. I will see yall, later.
<lordievader> Gppd morning.
<lordievader> Good*
<Dylan_> Hey
<Dylan_> What's up guys
<lordievader> o/
<Dylan_> What??
<lordievader> Dylan_: Just waving ;)
<lordievader> o <-- head, / <-- waving arm
<Dylan_> Oh haha
<Dylan_> :))
<Dylan_> What distro do you use??
<Dylan_> I use Linux lite lol but like i emulate in virtualbox
<Dylan_> It's quite fast compared to ubuntu
<lordievader> My main workstation runs Gentoo, and I have a test box running Kubuntu Wily.
<Dylan_> Nice
<Dylan_> Yeah I run my things on my windows 8.1 laptop with a core i3 1.90ghz and like it came with 4gb ram so I tried ubuntu omg it was so laggy I couldn't use it so I found Linux lite and I'm happy with it so i use with virtualbox :)
<lordievader> Heh, an i3.
<lordievader> Does that have VT-D support?
<Dylan_> can't click on the accretion tab but I guess so
<Dylan_> yeah an i3 hahaha
<lordievader> Ah it does: http://ark.intel.com/products/81018/Intel-Core-i3-4030U-Processor-3M-Cache-1_90-GHz
<Dylan_> Yup that's the one
<lordievader> I suppose most Intel cpu's support VT-d nowadays.
<Dylan_> But in virtualbox idk doesn't let me click the accretion tab
<Dylan_> Yea
<lordievader> That is odd...
<Dylan_> I'm from australia just letting everyone know haha
<lordievader> Too bad you are not running Linux as the host, else I would have recommended kvm :P
<Dylan_> Yeah I got windows 8.1 as host and Linux lite with a guest so and windows 2000 hahha
<lordievader> Whoops
<BluesKaj> G'Day folks
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: hello mate
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx and you?
<lordievader> Doing ok here.
<lotuspsychje> just cam from the city (sunny weather)
<MonkeyDust> i partially reconfigured my NAS connection, it shouldnt work before a NAS reboot, but it does... i'm happy, but i'm not getting it...
<OerHeks> Now we are happy too
<TJ-> I've been looking at the Hacker-Team source-code (Nation-state Malware insertion for stealing data) that has been exfiltrated from the company and posted on github, and in particular its core-linux module. It looks like it uses 0-days to compromise Linux machines and makes a lot of use of Ubuntu-specific packages, and appears to masquerade as part of the whoopsie error-reporting service. Looks like something we need to consider and take steps to protect ag
<TJ-> ainst
<OerHeks> TJ-, did you get all the 400+ gb??? i shaked my head when i saw the index
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: good evening mate :p
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 38.0+build3-0ubuntu0.15.04.1 (vivid), package size 39627 kB, installed size 96718 kB
<OerHeks> 39 is only available for wily
<TJ-> OerHeks: No, I focused in on the parts that attack Linux directly
<lotuspsychje> omgubuntu says 40 is out and improved alot for linux
<TJ-> I have 39 on 14.04
<lotuspsychje> strange
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/firefox-40-to-bring-better-performance-scrolling-and-graphics-on-linux-486110.shtml
<TJ-> Using PPA mozillateam-firefox-next
<OerHeks> beta .. they always have a next beta when a version comes out
<lotuspsychje> right, im still on 38 here
<TJ-> apt-cache says: Installed: 39.0~b7+build1-0ubuntu0.14.04.1
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: nice :p
<lotuspsychje> small improvements on 39 right
<OerHeks> im on chrome, and i found out today that gmail asks a lot of questions, so many that you get scared
<TJ-> I'm not sure if it's my system or a bug in 39, but it also wants to 'restore' tabs when it starts even though it closed down cleanly last time
<TJ-> s/also/always/
<lotuspsychje> yeah gmail gave me security warning loggin with my nexus7 ubuntu touch
<lotuspsychje> and also on gm-notify indicator
<TJ-> I run different Firefox profiles on each of my 4 X screens, some for research, some for docs, etc., and they all do it, so it's not a profile issue
<lotuspsychje> so ive disabled untrusted apps
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: and you close all tabs and profiles before closing FF?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: No, I have it set to save tabs and reopen on start. But on start, 39 always offers the 'oops something went wrong, shall I reopen all your tabs'
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: maybe it sees 'saving' tabs as an error on closedown?
<TJ-> possibly, but as I say it's specific to 39, didn't happen with 38
<lotuspsychje> yeah might be
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: good evening mate
<EriC^^> evening lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> great, what about you?
<EriC^^> great
<EriC^^> how's the shop coming together?
<lotuspsychje> how i have not started yet
<lotuspsychje> we need to buy a house first
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: When do you plan on opening the shop?
<lotuspsychje> then ill start the shop from there
<lotuspsychje> fall-winter 2015 i think
<lordievader> Hmm, I see.
<lotuspsychje> a friend will build the webshop for me
<lotuspsychje> http://www.ubuntushop.be/en/
<lotuspsychje> this looks already an interseting site
<lotuspsychje> but ill try to make it simple and better
<lordievader> Are you going to use the name Ubuntu?
<lotuspsychje> no
<lotuspsychje> lotus computers
<lordievader> Ah, good. I get the feeling that Ubuntushop can get pretty sued.
<lordievader> Ubuntu is still a trademark after all.
<lotuspsychje> yeah think so too
<lotuspsychje> but its legal to mention the computers run 'ubuntu' right?
<lotuspsychje> as the Os
<lordievader> To refer to it sure. But they are using it as if they represent Ubuntu, not sure if Canonical is happy with that.
<lotuspsychje> yeah think so neither
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: http://www.ubuntushop.be/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38&Itemid=528
<lotuspsychje> lol 'windowsfree' computer :p
<lotuspsychje> i dont think Ms would like that either :p
<lordievader> Ooh, Joomla.
<lordievader> Meh, legaly there ain't anything wrong with that.
<lordievader> Err, wut? High end with an i3?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> low end i7 then :p
<OerHeks> if you say windows (tm) you are fine
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> but i wont use that on my site
<lordievader> Also why don't the servers have any specifications?
<lordievader> Crappy site.
<lotuspsychje> just mention ubuntu running as Os and explain opensource
<lordievader> You pay 1500+ euros and you have no idea what you are getting...
<OerHeks> lotuspsychje, and give an option to buy without OS at all.
<OerHeks> virgin drive
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: for the users who want to install ubuntu themselfs?
<lordievader> At least they mention Kubuntu.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: lol
<OerHeks> or bsd, or fedora, who knows?
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: yeah good idea
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: ill charge 49 to install ubuntu LTS, the users who wanna install themselfs, can
<lordievader> 50 euros to install Ubu?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: well the Os is free, but the barebone laptop will come without Os to me, and ill install the ssd + ubuntu install+tweaks+packages
<OerHeks> no, make no price difference, just give them a dvd/usb with ubuntu 64 bit anyway :-D
<OerHeks> that would i do.
<lotuspsychje> ill have more then 2hours work on each box
<lordievader> Yeah, you one time make an install then you image that install. Every next laptop is flash image + resize2fs...
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: good idea
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: and deliver ubuntu usb with ubuntu bootable also good idea
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: I'm full of them ;)
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: but i need to earn something right
<lordievader> Anyhow, don't you think 50 euros is a bit overpriced?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: my ears are open
<lordievader> I'm not spilling my beans all at once ;)
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: well LTS, they will benefit years from it right, and never come back to me
<OerHeks> those 50 euros are the profit people hope to make, buying without windows.
<EriC^^> guys i know this is offtopic but does anyone know something like microsoft office's word that is for free for windows?
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: well the laptops i will buy barebone without windows and ms office, will save me 180 euro+
<lotuspsychje> so 49 to install ubuntu + ssd + tweaks i find that reasonable
<OerHeks> abiword, openoffice, libreoffice, ibm office .. ( lotus)
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: i will also do convertings windows to ubuntu + ssd also 49
<EriC^^> OerHeks: was that for lotus or me?
<lotuspsychje> existing win boxes
<OerHeks> EriC^^, for you
<lotuspsychje> i need to earn $$ for service right, not only selling hardware
<OerHeks> didn't you know about those?
<EriC^^> OerHeks: oh ok, thanks
<lotuspsychje> the whole idea of the business will be a fast ssd computer running bloody fast on ubuntu 6'bit LTS
<EriC^^> no, i thought they were linux only
<lotuspsychje> 64
<EriC^^> OerHeks: are those for windows?
<OerHeks> http://www.abisource.com/download/ https://www.openoffice.org/download/ .. lotus if trialware now :-( i had a license once
<OerHeks> if-is*
<EriC^^> OerHeks: ok, thanks :D
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks, lordievader check this configurator for price: https://www.bto.eu/bto-u-book-15cl16.html#product-configuration
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: How much cheaper would your laptop be compared to the same running windows?
<lotuspsychje> without windows and office and no hd
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: depends on wich windows version and wich ms office version
<lotuspsychje> ill try to make the website with fixxed Os and ssd
<lordievader> Something current, no Office.
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu and samsung pro 850
<lordievader> 200 euros?
<lordievader> More? Less?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: yeah around 180
<lordievader> With the included service costs?
<lotuspsychje> wicj service
<lordievader> For a laptop of around 500 euros that is quite nice. For laptops around 1k, 2k, I'm not sure if people will go for your machines.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: why not?
<lordievader> Because percentage wise 200 euros on 2k is not a whole lot. And people love their Windows.
<lotuspsychje> thats true some folks stick to windows
<lotuspsychje> but ill work with the other folks :p
<lordievader> Price is a good argument to switch, but ~10 percent. Don't know.
<lotuspsychje> with a good personal service
<lotuspsychje> and fast starting computer
<EriC^^> hire a hot girl to take care of sales
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lordievader> That is allways a good way to sell stuff :P
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: my gf is already hot
<lotuspsychje> boobuntu computers :p
<EriC^^> genius.
<lordievader> There you go, done deal.
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i need a promo video like you found for me the other day
<EriC^^> yeah i know what you're saying
<EriC^^> 2 spinning disks instead of 1, and they transform into 2 boobs
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> what's the word, morph?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what folder was that in again?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lol ssd's dont have a spin :p
<lordievader> You can make them spin :P
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<EriC^^> /usr/share/example-content/Ubuntu_Free_Culture_Showcase/How fast.ogg
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<lotuspsychje> also keep in mind that my store wont be able to sell windows based software to earn
<lotuspsychje> only hardware accesoires
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2002/2186579912_cd2045628c.jpg
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lolll
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: are those your 3 gf's??
<EriC^^> once the shop starts working, you can expand too
<EriC^^> http://newstechnica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/ubuntu-desktop-bums.jpg
<lotuspsychje> lolz
<lotuspsychje> im sure that will bring more customers
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: If i may make a suggestion; install some form of snapshot/recovery mini OS as well as the primary, with automated log collection tools, if you want to avoid time-expensive support if or when the user's mess up
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: as lordievader suggested something with an image?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: If they're UEFI, *please* install the full EDK v2.x shell into /EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI" so the thing will boot to something if they manage to wipe out the EFI boot entries
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: lets hope they dont touch uefi stuff
<lotuspsychje> TJ-:  ill try to make them clear when buying :p
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: before I retired, I used to own a group of IT companies that did a lot of small-business support contracts, and the thing that made us most profit was ensuring we but tools and procedures in place to efficiently provide support/rollback/recovery when the inevitable calls came in.
<TJ-> s/but/put/
<lordievader> Just don't give them anyway into root?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: did you do linux computers too?
<TJ-> makes not difference, sudo will do just as much damage
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: make another user for them by default?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: on the server-side and some workstations but primarily it was Windows. This was back between 1990-2004
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lordievader> sudo is a way into root, i.e. disable that too :P
<lordievader> It was more of a joke than real advice.
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: Don't do anything non-standard in the primary installs, but install a safety-net at several levels (boot, mini-OS, snapshoting file-system) to provide protection and fast recovery.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: well most ppl will use GUI and use pass just for the update icon right
<lordievader> For updates you need sudo ;)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: good idea
<EriC^^> easiest thing to do is make your own grub menu
<EriC^^> which you can boot from the boot options ( you add it in efibootmgr ),
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: and things like either an rsync or git-commit on a cron job that saves the state or /etc/* and $HOME every day... that can be so invaluable
<EriC^^> and it runs an .iso off the hdd that will restore everything and keep /home intact for instance
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: also nice idea
<EriC^^> call it recovery or restore pc or something in the boot manager
<TJ-> EriC^^: GRUB might be dead... which is why I say install the full UEFI shell v2.x to /EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI so that the PC will boot to a shell of some form no matter what, short of complete disk trashing
<EriC^^> TJ-: nah he makes a partition that has only grub and an .iso and it's in the efibootmgr called restore pc
<EriC^^> and it launches that efi partition, which has the .iso too
<lotuspsychje> but most ppl wont even be able to mess up their box anyways, my 75 y old father works with LTS for years now, never been able to mess it up
<TJ-> EriC^^: your ISO idea == my mini-OS ... a self-contained, networked, recovery suite with just the tools needed for efficient (anod possibly remote networked) recovery
<EriC^^> the user won't know it's there unless he mounts it manually
<EriC^^> yeah, putting it in the efibootmgr would be cool though
<EriC^^> they'd just press f9 when the pc starts, and select restore pc and voila
<TJ-> EriC^^: Agreed, but not rely on it being there for it to start
<EriC^^> oem-like restoration
<lotuspsychje> and there's always fresh install i can do in 15min on the ssd
 * TJ- nods
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: the problem with fresh install is user-data gets into some strange places... so maybe always have the /home/ in a separate file-system.
<EriC^^> yeah sure, give him a restore usb he can boot
<EriC^^> too
<lotuspsychje> well im gonna sell data hd's too, and offer payed backups too
<lotuspsychje> ive gotta earn for the store also right
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I found that the majority of the cost in selling PCs is post-sales support, not failed hardware, and especially in a retail environment selling to end-users there are legal obligations that can quickly wipe out your profit margin which is already going to be slim
<lotuspsychje> but recovery/iso/uefi is good idea tnx to both!
<lotuspsychje> faster restore for me
<lotuspsychje> =saves money
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: that's it precisely, and possibly more useful word spreads how professional and efficient you are and how amazing your support is
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> 98% of our new business used to come from recommendations like that... our advertising budget was 0
<lotuspsychje> mouth to mouth spread
<lotuspsychje> is important for sure
<TJ-> mouth to ear :)
<lotuspsychje> and i know alot of ppl
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: i think if you focus also on gaming you'd make a killing
<EriC^^> like lots of people want to get a cheap laptop for their kids with games they can play
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but i dont hear such good things about steam these days
<TJ-> open hardware with known good drivers and experience too
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah thats gonna be some trouble, i dont want atheros or broadcom chipsets
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: would the gamers not feel limited on just steam box?
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: i was thinking more along the lines of 10 year olds or so
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: all their mates playing high end stuff like the witcher3 or so
<EriC^^> cause i notice from the channel some people give their kids ubuntu cause they think they won't screw it up or so
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> There's a large market for 'supervised' computing for parents to know what their kids are up to on the PC
<EriC^^> also most people in the channel are in college
<EriC^^> yeah exactly, many times people are like i want the pc to have net access only for 2 hours
<EriC^^> or i want to ban this and that
<EriC^^> which i get into fights with
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> i really hope someone invents a deamon tools linux version that can load up Iso's universal on any os
<EriC^^> anyways lotuspsychje you need to work for both parties, tell the dad how to ban the sites, and slip the kid a porn partition
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: then ill sell a pc to father, mother and kid= 3x :p
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: you gotta think ;)
<lotuspsychje> haha
<EriC^^> lol j/k
<lotuspsychje> thats where to cool user part on ubuntu comes on..
<lotuspsychje> Dad, jamie,mommy,sister
<lotuspsychje> everyone a /home to sleep in :p
<ObrienDave> and a /root to wallow in ;P
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> seriously though, you could maybe prepare iso's that are preinstalled with stuff
<EriC^^> like one for college students who particular stuff
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i think ill use something like aptoncd perhaps
<ObrienDave> wasn't there something like remastersys?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but in categories like you say
<EriC^^> and one for maybe kids that are 10 or so who their parents want to let them use the pc for a couple hours after homework
<lotuspsychje> student,multimedia,gaming
<lotuspsychje> if i clean install LTS on a samsung pro 850, will take only 15min with all updates
<lotuspsychje> if i aptoncd after on the box could be quick right
<lotuspsychje> or download the .debs on a stick perhaps
<EriC^^> yeah cause everything is already downloaded i guess
<lotuspsychje> or maybe it will change to snappy soon,...who knows what that will bring as advantages
<lotuspsychje> lets just hope, the regular users will be smart enough to bare with ubuntu future changes
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: For your iso thing, you have mount ;)
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: yeah but i mean to install + play the game in any os
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: right now, an ubuntu box with high end card cant play GTA5 or so right
<lordievader> ?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: would be nice to load the game iso on the raw hardware, not depending on the Os
<lotuspsychje> the same windows box can play it normally right
<lordievader> You mean let every game have its own os?
<lotuspsychje> no, to load up games on any Os on the hardware with a deamon-tools like virtual tool
<lotuspsychje> its hard to explain as it probably doesnt exist
<lotuspsychje> you cant load GTA5 on a virtualbox windows8 from ubuntu neither right
<lotuspsychje> but the box, can handle the game on the hardware (from proper windows)
<lordievader> Why not?
<EriC^^> it won't have the graphics
<lotuspsychje> yeah it will bottleneck
<EriC^^> and probably just 1 cpu etc. unless you give it more
<lordievader> If you pass through a gpu I see no problem.
<lordievader> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17qxEpn4EGs
<TJ-> GPU pass-through is pretty well supported with modern CPUs
<lotuspsychje> team fortress isnt a high end game
<lordievader> Point is, you can game on a vm.
<lotuspsychje> yeah i know that lordievader
<lotuspsychje> but not the high end games
<lotuspsychje> some users video's ive seen can tweak alot of stuff indeed
<lotuspsychje> make games like far cry run pretty fine on ubuntu
<TJ-> If it were me I'd have a PC with a primary powerful GPU that can be used for games, and a DisplayLink USB adapter for connecting an external screen for the non-gaming GPU :)
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: It can, passthrough a powerfull gpu and your done.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: would like to see that on GTA5 or the witcher3 :p
<lordievader> Heh, GTA5 seems to run under Wine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb1jZRRrOo4
<ObrienDave> why would you want to run any high end game under wine?
<lordievader> No idea.
<ObrienDave> and, "because you can" is not a valid reason ;P
<lotuspsychje> its gta4 and pretty laggy
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: So back to your original idea/argument, I still don't get it.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: the idea would be to create a multi-Os tool that can load games on the raw hardware
<lotuspsychje> (not depending on the Os) but running on the high end videocard
<lordievader> The tool has the drivers for the hardware?
<lotuspsychje> not sure how that would work
<lotuspsychje> but it surely would be cool
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: That's be fine if the games were written to a universal hypervisor interface, but they're not they're written specifically to the latest Windows/DirectX APIs in most cases, with some support for OpenGL
<lordievader> You need something to talk to all the hardware... and that everything is different doesn't help. That is why we have os'es.
<lordievader> Let the os deal with the hardware ;)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: well wine emulates abit like that right
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: What does wine spell again? :P
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: so a multi-Os wine tool lookalike that can run game is'os
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: bad headache? :p
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Wine is not an emulator ;)
<TJ-> wine doesn't emulate it directly implements a large number of the Windows APIs and translates them into equivalent Linux/OpenGL function calls
<lotuspsychje> ok, but you get the idea what i mean right
<TJ-> that's why running in wine is the same performance as on Windows *if* the APIs are implemented. The problem is, there are *thousands* of APIs and many are undocumented or documented incorrectly, so wine has to even re-implement Windows bugs to make it compatible
<lordievader> Sort of. I think if you set out to make something like that that you will get a major headache.
<lotuspsychje> maybe in the future, someone bright might invent it
<TJ-> Crossover have been doing the commercial side of Wine for a decade or so and they're still playing catch-up :)
<lordievader> Does anyone here program on mechanical keyboards?
<TJ-> All keyboards are mechanical aren't they?
<OerHeks> EriC^^,
<OerHeks> baja knows how to paste
<EriC^^> OerHeks: i dont follow
<EriC^^> you mean he's trolling?
<lordievader> TJ-: Appearantly not.
<lordievader> TJ-: http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-mx-mechanical-switches/
<TJ-> the only non-mechanical i can think of are touchscreens and laser detector types
<EriC^^> OerHeks: ?
<lordievader> Yeah, ok. Per pure definition all keyboards are mechanical. But usually people refer to keyboards with Cherry MX switches as mechanical keyboards.
<TJ-> alll moveable keys have a mechanical action even if that is to press down on a dimple of springy silicon
<lordievader> Supposedly they are superior to the regular $20 keyboards.
<TJ-> I prefer long-stroke keys, but I also prefer silicon dimples to metal springs
<lordievader> I'm considering purchasing one, but they are rather expensive.
<TJ-> I use Bluetooth Apple keyboards - the only Apple product I'll buy!
<TJ-> I use them because they have the best action I've ever experienced
<EriC^^> i'm using a lame genius one right now
<EriC^^> i spilled soda on the laptop's keyboard and it's toast haven't gotten a replacement yet
<EriC^^> this one sounds like a freakin typewriter :)
<OerHeks> :-(
<ObrienDave> hot even the original IBM PC keyboard??? with the added mechanical springy sound? LOL
<ObrienDave> *not
<TJ-> EriC^^: just remove it, wash it out with detergent and hot water, shake it and blow-dry it  for 10 minutes
<EriC^^> TJ-: i tried, it worked for one day after the spill, then suddenly it stopped
<EriC^^> i tried soaking it in alcohol over night and warm water etc. nothing fixed it
<EriC^^> i was pretty appauled as i've done my fair share of spills on numerous laptops and they never gave a problem
<TJ-> EriC^^: debris in the silicon dimples usually; I generally strip a keyboard right down to bare PCB once a year to clean it thoroughly
<EriC^^> TJ-: i took all the keys off in the end, and washed it alot but it still won't work
<TJ-> EriC^^: that's unusual, I wonder if contaminant got into the ribbon connector
<EriC^^> i could probably use it without the letters, i got a keyboard when i was about 15 once and it turned out to be a different language one, but i never returned it cause i had the keyboard pretty memorized anyways
<ObrienDave> I owe, I owe, so off to work i go ;P *waves*
<EriC^^> TJ-: could be, some of the keys were acting up, like giving weird characters
<TJ-> Yes, that sounds like shorting across the matrix
<TJ-> some keyboards have multiple layers of flexible circuits with apertures where the silicon dimples fit, and contamination between can create new conductive pathways
<EriC^^> i see
<TJ-> We used to deal with that kind of issue alot, to the point where at larger customers we pre-positioned replacement parts like keyboards so they could simply swap a new one in whilst wo took in, disassembled and cleaned the one they'd spilt coffee in :)
<EriC^^> heh :)
<EriC^^> pretty neat
<TJ-> if you can avoid an emergency on-site call you save a lot of expense
<EriC^^> yeah, it's pretty efficient
<TJ-> We could do 95% of the support remotely, so the only emergency issues we generally dealt with were failing hard disks and folks pulling out wires
<EriC^^> that's nice
<JanC> lordievader: you can buy Cherry keyboards for reasonable prices?
<OerHeks> v.a. 27 euro http://www.centralpoint.nl/toetsenborden/cherry/
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-07
<Dylan_> Hey guys
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lordievader> JanC: I find 100+ euros for keyboards still relatively expensive.
<JanC> lordievader: they have older & cheaper keyboards with pre-MX/ML mechanical switches
<lordievader> Well, I'm not against spending some money. I was just wondering if someone used them and what their experience with them was.
<JanC> lordievader: you are aware that there are many different MX switches, right?
<lordievader> Yes.
<JanC> so, many different experiences too  :)
<lordievader> Yeah, I know. Still just gathering information ;)
 * daftykins looks at baja and shakes his head
<izroil> I'm connecting using weechat. somebody help me how to use it pls
<OerHeks> you are doing fine
<izroil> whats other command should i know
<OerHeks> I am not familiar with weechat, sure there is a manual for it
<izroil> what kind app you use?
<daftykins> just use what works for you, and don't ask for support in a channel with a topic that says "non-support discussion" :)
<izroil> im sorry. fine. thanks
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-08
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: o/
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: hi mate :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) it is quiet and slow. You are just in time to huury up and wait !
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: loool
 * lotuspsychje sits around looking up the sky....
<lotuspsychje> NFSW: another android exploit http://cryptome.org/2015/07/ht-android-exploit.txt
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: hello
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx and you lordievader ?
<lordievader> Doing okay here.
<TJ-> Looks like we're going to have a new bunch of real Nokia cell phones soon ... and Microsoft have destroyed the old Nokia phone business completely, haivng announced today they've written off the entire purchase cost of the business and making another few thousand ex-Nokia people redundant
<MonkeyDust> *phew* 'thermald' really saved my day
<DJones> TJ-: I wonder if the new windows/nokia phone will actually do what a phone is designed for......Making phone calls :)
<TJ-> I think most 'smart' phone are pretty dumb in that respect; I had reason to use my old trusty sony-ericsson K800i the other day to keep a SIMs active that are used in our dogs GPS/cell tracker... and it almost made me want to dump the touchscreen phone :)
<OerHeks> I try to live without smartphone, feels good.
<TJ-> I get into constant trouble for refusing to be at the beck and call of mine
<OerHeks> oh, people find me silly anyway, opensource OS, no smartphone, chihuahua ...
<TJ-> I use mine predominantly as an audiobook player, and as a DVR + sat-nav when driving
<OerHeks> no driving license... i must be some alien
<TJ-> Oh, mine has a GPS tracking app so if the Huskies run off I can activate and track them :)
<OerHeks> But then again; i don't want to pay 50 euo's/month for such electronics that might be out of SLA before the end of contract
<OerHeks> euro's*
<TJ-> I always buy equipment outright, and can pick and choose what network/plan I want. I'm not sure about elsewhere but here in GB it's really easy to transfer from one network to another
<OerHeks> Sure, here in the Netherlands too. but 9 out of 10 choose a 'free' phone with the network.
<TJ-> There is a big and growing market here for "non-contract" devices and many operators have very good plan options to support them.
<OerHeks> Free phones are ending, as it is a credit. and phone and contract should be considered seperate products, lots of change. which is good
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-09
<wafflejock> OerHeks, yeah in the US I think Verizon is dominant but their plans are crazy in terms of the subsidized devices (granted coverage is good) I moved away to Ting though which is a no contract bring your own device and 1/2-1/3 the price of Verizon for me
<daftykins> ah yeah the Linux Action Show guys were sponsored by Ting i think
<daftykins> actually does anyone watch LAS?
<OerHeks> We, in the Netherlands, are poor about programs about computers.
<OerHeks> verry verry poor imho
<daftykins> OerHeks: ah this one's a vidcast from jupiter broadcasting
<daftykins> http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/tag/linux-action-show/
<OerHeks> ah, not "have you turn it on, and off yet"
<daftykins> :D
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> run away! the idiots are in force this morning :)
<lotuspsychje> hi there daftykins :p
<lotuspsychje> loool
<daftykins> i just had someone fail to operate pastebinit
<daftykins> PASTEBINIT of all things!
<lotuspsychje> you have users...and there are real idiots indeed
<lotuspsychje> did he mistype the command?
<daftykins> it got a bit messy
<daftykins> i had to remove all memory of it to keep sane
<daftykins> :>
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Bashing-om> denser than a bag of rocks, 3 of em simultainiously . Ganging up on daftykins .
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> very well put!
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TB0X:~$ cowsay OMG
<lotuspsychje>  _____
<lotuspsychje> < OMG >
<lotuspsychje>  -----
<lotuspsychje>         \   ^__^
<lotuspsychje>          \  (oo)\_______
<lotuspsychje>             (__)\       )\/\
<lotuspsychje>                 ||----w |
<lotuspsychje>                 ||     ||
<daftykins> XD
<lotuspsychje> ive seen this nmatrix before
<lotuspsychje> whats his issue this time daftykins
<daftykins> this one broke nvidia drivers :)
<daftykins> for some reason he was forcing vesafb and nomodeset in kernel boot params
<lotuspsychje> right
<daftykins> right now i think xorg-edgers drivers are only generating a module for a non-running kernel
<daftykins> since his Xorg.0.log says module nvidia not found
<daftykins> but this one must be at beginner level or something
<lotuspsychje> what kind of card did he have
<daftykins> 550 Ti i think
<lotuspsychje> ok
<lotuspsychje> i had one with a login loop on 750 ti yesterday after an update
<daftykins> oh i think i spotted that one
<lotuspsychje> not sure how he solved it
<daftykins> i know the 750Ti is a maxwell card that requires non-default-repo drivers with 14.04
<lotuspsychje> think he was on 15.04 and i suggested him to try trusty as test
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> this one's disappeared now asking for a single command XD
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> watching paint dry would be so much better
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> the heavy load of volunteer support you must carry :p
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> it is a bit odd when you get helpees that are unable to function though
<lotuspsychje> he woke up :p
<lotuspsychje> or we gonna knowtwice on his face
<lotuspsychje> knock
<daftykins> ugh when they quit right at the end
<daftykins> !
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Bashing-om> Had all I can stand, can't stands no more, Good night for this session.
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> afternoon to all
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: hello, whats new
<lordievader> Just got my new keyboard in :)
<lotuspsychje> cool wich one?
<lordievader> DAS keyboard model S ultimate with Cherry brown keys.
<lotuspsychje> looking good with usb port
<lotuspsychje> German-engineered, gold-plated, mechanical key switches (Cherry MX Brown). Designed to withstand 50 million key strokes
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> im burning 32 and 64bit trusty on my key-usb with multisystem
<lordievader> And the non label keycaps is rather nice :)
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Multi iso usb-stick?
<lotuspsychje> yes
<lotuspsychje> so i always have LTS 32 and 64bit on the road :p
<lotuspsychje> multisystem is very nice, just drag n drop the iso's you need
<lordievader> I think I have gentoo on my stick among my keys. Or it was Kubuntu, I can never remember.
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> im gonna make a pentesting new kali also later :p
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/penetration-testing-kali-linux-2-0-dojo-to-launch-in-a-month-486397.shtml
<lordievader> I know Kali linux ;)
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: http://hak5.org/category/episodes/metasploit-minute
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> cool :p
<lotuspsychje> played with db_autopwn in the past :p
 * lordievader has a published paper about https brute force detection on his name :D
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> feel free to pm url :p
<lotuspsychje> this also looks nice: https://www.pwnieexpress.com/product/pwn-pad-3/
<lordievader> Not sure if you can access it freely: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?arnumber=7140395&searchWithin%5B%5D=%22Authors%22%3A.QT.van+der+Toorn%2C+Olivier.QT.&newsearch=true
<lotuspsychje> lookin good
<lordievader> Thanks.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: found the pdf here: http://dl.ifip.org/db/conf/im/im2015p/133801.pdf
<lordievader> That's the one.
<lotuspsychje> very technical :p
<lotuspsychje> played with hydra in the past too
<lordievader> It's my bachelor thesis ;)
<lotuspsychje> heavy did your teacher understand it lol
<lordievader> Of course they did. The chair specialises in this kind of stuff.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: what class did you study?
<lordievader> Electrical Engineering.
<lotuspsychje> and IT security is a part of it?
<lordievader> Sort of yes. Electrical Engineering is rather wide.
<lotuspsychje> i see
<Bashing-om> Getting strapped back in, anything exciting while I have been away ?
<daftykins> sneak peek of my new bike parts? :D https://photos-4.dropbox.com/t/2/AADMovkkWIZ9Hz-ZDMvYbMzTqhfbuoXWjwCz-gU0uU4iKw/12/54276969/jpeg/32x32/1/1436475600/0/2/IMG_20150709_110715.jpg/COnm8BkgASACIAMgBCAFIAYgBygCKAc/wvL-usNa_J8UEIZRFhNzyqKEoI5gbQVuVrfs7VNcogU?size=1280x960&size_mode=2
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Those look pretty, and I bet as high dollar as they are 'pretty' .
<ExecSlim> If I have a very minor bug to report about archive-manager, is it best that I don't report it so that it doesn't clutter up all of the other more important bugs?
<daftykins> a bug is a bug is a bug.
<daftykins> Bashing-om: :D not *too* bad, Â£90 GBP i think for the lot
<daftykins> Â£31 alone for the largest chainring was a surprise
<ncme> Hey
<ncme> How can I delete my apps from https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev ?
<daftykins> Â¬_Â¬
<Bashing-om> Chores guys, I be away for a couple of hours . back soonest .
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-10
<Bashing-om> I be back, playing catch up now.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> agent_white: hello :p
<agent_white> Heya! \o
<agent_white> What's this all about?
<lotuspsychje> agent_white: the idea is, we offer alot of support, but never have a chance to talk to each other
<lotuspsychje> agent_white: so this way we can support and chat on ubuntu topics to each other
<agent_white> Oh neat! How did you... find me out? :P
<lotuspsychje> agent_white: you have been spotted as active volunteer :p
<lotuspsychje> we see you alot in #ubuntu right
<agent_white> Oh wow... I'm honored haha. Thank you for extending the invite here :)  Never figured it was noticed.
<lotuspsychje> agent_white: feel free to add this channel to favs
<agent_white> lotuspsychje: Already done :)
<lotuspsychje> tnx mate
<agent_white> Is this a recent channel then?
<lotuspsychje> well it was a rather non-active channel
<lotuspsychje> as i had this idea, to gather most nicest ppl
<lotuspsychje> we all like a cool ubuntu discussion, and offtopic channel can be so crowdy
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: good morning :p
<TJ-> Morning :)
<agent_white> lotuspsychje: Sounds good to me!  Again, happy/honored to hear I was 'spotted'... even though I wonder more how I was! :P
<TJ-> 2nd task of the morning - pack up and return to CA, USA, one dead-on-arrival PCIe SSD .... grrrr. Spent a week diagnosing the failure and confirming its not a counterfeit!
<lotuspsychje> agent_white: well its easy to seperate the active,friendly volunteers from angry, ego-minded supporters
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: whats wrong with it?
<TJ-> It's dead Jim!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: thats the hardest thing, ive spent a week on a mobo once that was dead too
<TJ-> It's a mini-PCIe device (direct, not mSATA etc) and it caused all the laptops to lock up during POST
<lotuspsychje> and keeping thinking it was my fault lol
<TJ-> So I tested it in a PCIe <> mini-PCIe adapter in an ATX desktop motherboard... and it prevented the PSU from turning on
<lotuspsychje> sort of a hardware loop?
<agent_white> Ah I see :)  Luckily I maybe have seen an angered-one only a few times... I just feel it's easy to put myself into the shoes of one with a question and remember when I had that same question.
<lotuspsychje> agent_white: ive seen you alot in support, and never seen you angry so.. :p
<agent_white> :D Haha never will!
<lotuspsychje> keep up the spirit :p
<TJ-> I contacted Super Talent support and they hinted it might be counterfeit so I sent them some macro photos of the PCB .. confirmed this morning it is genuine and they'll RMA it it. I've got the option of 2 RMAs now, them or the original retailer
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: got an url on that device?
<TJ-> Core Store Plus:   http://www.supertalent.com/products/ssd_category_detail.php?type=CoreStore&category=others
<lotuspsychje> hmm cant find much error threads on it
<TJ-> They beat the SATA speed bottleneck can transfer at the speed of the PCIe bus
<lotuspsychje> nice
<TJ-> SATA + SSD is a silly combination in many cases now, SATA is OK for spinning disk but not memory devices
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: so take msata ssd?
<TJ-> mSATA is just SATA on a mini-PCIe interface edge connector
<TJ-> NGFF aka m.2 is the follow on from mSATA, but has yet another different bus and edge connector
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: so your saying that ssd's should only be plugged on pcie?
<TJ-> I'm saying connecting most disk-replacement flash memory devices via SATA is going to cause an access bottleneck and is a waste of money and electronics
<lotuspsychje> bottleneck of 550mb/sec?
<TJ-> But internally, it requires PCIe <> SATA controller <> connector <> SATA controller <> Address Decoder <> Memory
<TJ-> As opposed to PCIe <> connector <> Address Decoder <> Memory
<lotuspsychje> true its more direct
<TJ-> So, especially for after-market upgrades of older PCs especially, (mini)-PCIe will often be much better than SATA, if available.
<lotuspsychje> ok
<TJ-> E.g., the laptop fleet we have here are all identical models (allows fast hot-swap), and have 3 mini-PCIe slots each plus the 2.5" SATA disk interface. That allows them to have 750GB SHD (SSD cache combined with spinning disk), WLAN 802.11a/b/g/n, WWAN 3/4G modem, *and* a full flash 'SSD'
<lotuspsychje> sounds nice
<TJ-> and they still have the ExpressCard interface - another PCIe port - which I have connected to an external full sized PCIe enclosure with an Nvidia NVS420 dual-GPU PCIe  adapter, which allows me 3 GPUs and 6 screens in total.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> for the heavy workers
<TJ-> more expandable than most desktops :)
<lotuspsychje> well the customers i will have will do fine on sata+ samsung pro 850 ssd with ubuntu64bit
<lotuspsychje> but if i see available mini pcie ill think of you
<TJ-> :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: http://www.fastestssd.com/featured/ssd-rankings-the-fastest-solid-state-drives/#pcie
<agent_white> lotuspsychje: You laying down these factoids has lead me to read about ubottu's factoids and aliases of them.  Good to know :)
<lotuspsychje> Up to 3200MB/s read
<lotuspsychje> Up to 1900MB/s write
<lotuspsychje> impressive that first one
<TJ-> Yes, those are commonly used in database servers
<lotuspsychje> agent_white: :p
<TJ-> It's the IOPS that's most important in that class
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: Random 4K Write: Up to 205,000 IOPS (700GB)
<lotuspsychje> crazy
<TJ-> That's pretty typical of the demands for that class of device
<TJ-> it's not about throughput so much as the number of I/O operations the device can handle
<TJ-> In virtualised servers that can be much more important, if you've got 30-100 guests all needing to access their disk images in the routine way that OS and applications do
<agent_white> lotuspsychje: Time to write factoids on flashcards... I've been wanting to learn more of them.
<agent_white> ;)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah alot of servers use ssd these days
<TJ-> Won't be long until we have more RAM-SSDs making it down to the consumer level
<lotuspsychje> that would be nice
<TJ-> Is it irony that when I start xSANE it reports "Scanning for devices" :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> linux jokes :p
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TB0X:~$ cowsay Scanning for devices mooo
<lotuspsychje>  ___________________________
<lotuspsychje> < Scanning for devices mooo >
<lotuspsychje>  ---------------------------
<lotuspsychje>         \   ^__^
<lotuspsychje>          \  (oo)\_______
<lotuspsychje>             (__)\       )\/\
<lotuspsychje>                 ||----w |
<lotuspsychje>                 ||     ||
<histo> lol
<lotuspsychje> :p
<histo> wasn't there owlsay aslo
<lotuspsychje> TJ- started it!
<lotuspsychje> !info owlsay
<ubot5> Package owlsay does not exist in vivid
<lotuspsychje> histo: i found cowsay -f duck or sheep :p
<histo> nice
<histo>   ____ _____        __
<histo>  / ___/ _ \ \      / /
<histo> | |  | | | \ \ /\ / /
<histo> | |__| |_| |\ V  V /
<histo>  \____\___/  \_/\_/
<histo>                       
<lotuspsychje> histo: lol
<lotuspsychje> http://smashingtips.com/linux/cool-terminal-commands-for-linux
<histo> stegasaurus
<lotuspsychje> haha
<TJ-> histo: You might want to read the back-log on SashaGrey's issue; TLDR: remote headless dedicated server, failing to mount /home/ file-system at boot and drops to initrd. No remote KVM, no IPMI, only 'remote hands' via email. see http://paste.ubuntu.com/11854634/
<TJ-> I let it go once I found out there's no remote ability, and no data back-ups
<agent_white> Sounds like Ben64 and k1l_ should be here! I've seen them around quite a bit.
<lordievader> Good afternoon.
<BluesKaj> G'Day folks
<BluesKaj> Hi again
<ExecSlim> If I found a bug in ubuntu and I found the bug on launchpad but the bug is for a different machine type (a lenovo), would it be appropriate for me to comment about my issue on my computer and attach what errors I'm getting?
<ExecSlim> found it on launchpad*
<daftykins> still not a support channel
<lordievader> ExecSlim: Even though this ain't support I'd add your comment if the bug matches.
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> hello lordievader
<ExecSlim> Out of curiosity, has anyone dual booted windows and ubuntu on a macbook pro, and erased the "mac" partition? If that's possible is it possible to reinstall mac?
<daftykins> this is NOT a support channel
<daftykins> it's in the topic! leave and ask in #ubuntu if you want support.
<daftykins> got the rest of my lovely new bike part snaps - http://imgur.com/a/mVMyQ
<OerHeks> You might as well buy a new bike man
<daftykins> ;) hell no
<daftykins> Â£90 of parts on a Â£1900 bike :)
<OerHeks> :-O
<daftykins> did well for 7 years old!
<OerHeks> Sure, after 5+ years you need to do maintanance on the chain. On that point i buy a new bike
<ExecSlim> daftykins, oops! For future reference, how does #ubuntu-discuss differ from #ubuntu-offtopic?
<daftykins> ExecSlim: read the damn topic
<lordievader> ExecSlim: I'm not in #ubuntu-offtopic ;)
<OerHeks> ExecSlim, your Q is suitable for #ubuntu support i guess
<ExecSlim> Okay sounds good, sorry about that
<ExecSlim> just posted it into #ubuntu
<OerHeks> I cannot tell what the osx installer wants from your hdd, freedom to partition or guided.
<ExecSlim> OerHeks right now I am just dual booting ubuntu and mac, but I want to erase mac and replace it with windows. However, I'm afraid that I won't be able to get mac back
<DJones> daftykins: Do the new parts help avoiding crashes and hospital visits?
<daftykins> that's not in the least bit funny
<daftykins> in fact, you are a complete asshole.
<DJones> daftykins: Genuine question, are you fully recovered
<daftykins> fuck you.
<BluesKaj> oh my ..wth was that about ?
<daftykins> someone finding humour in what they shouldn't.
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-11
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<histo> YAY I got all the glue off my new laptop from the stupid intel and windblows stickers finally
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> histo: did you buy something new?
<histo> yeah lenovo G50
<lotuspsychje> histo: nice, what did you install on it?
<histo> was on sale couldn't pass it up. I finally have hardware VT
<histo> lotuspsychje: Arch
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: hi mate
<lordievader> histo: Hardware VT is nice :)
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-G50-15-6-Inch-Laptop-Core/dp/B00K6ZIFAQ
<lotuspsychje> looks good
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: great tnx
<histo> I gots the i5
<lotuspsychje> ahh
<lotuspsychje> histo: and no ssd inside?
<histo> I pulled my ssd from my old laptop and put the 500gb that came in here in that for the kids
<lotuspsychje> yayyy
 * histo likes booting faster than wifi can associate
<lotuspsychje> histo: wich ssd brand was it again?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<histo> sandisk
<lotuspsychje> nice nice
<lotuspsychje> sudo halt in 3 sec :p
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 39.0+build5-0ubuntu0.15.04.1 (vivid), package size 41015 kB, installed size 99262 kB
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/firefox-39-finally-lands-in-ubuntu-15-04-after-a-long-wait-486572.shtml
<histo> need sleep
<histo> cya
<lordievader> Sleep well ;)
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-12
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ObrienDave> waves
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> hi lordievader
<lotuspsychje> had a nice day?
<lordievader> Quite okay, yes. How about you?
<lotuspsychje> fine here tnx
<OerHeks> hi lotus & lordie
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: hellow :p
 * OerHeks forgets to hit [tab] 2x
<lotuspsychje> lazy :p
<lordievader> Hey OerHeks
<OerHeks> i am updating the old wrecked laptop from mom
<OerHeks> ati x200 .. zucht
<lotuspsychje> xubuntu/lubuntu :p
<lotuspsychje> got an old X800 running 14.04 fine on unity
<OerHeks> ubuntu runs fine, 4 gb onboard
<lotuspsychje> great
<OerHeks> but slow sceen stuff
<lordievader> I reinstalled my old laptop yesterday. It had Wily and I wanted Wily on there. Problem was the images I had of Wily didin't boot. The only other image that I had was Trusty...
<lordievader> OerHeks: Does the radeon driver still support the x200?
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/amd-catalyst-15-7-stable-linux-driver-releases-after-a-long-absence-486447.shtml
<OerHeks> lordievader, no, just the opendriver works
<lordievader> Radeon is the opensource driver ;) Or are you reffering to vesa?
<OerHeks> ehm ... Then radeon it is.
<lordievader> Fglrx is the closed source one.
<lordievader> OerHeks: But the radeon driver is quite nice. I use it myself.
<lordievader> In my case it is even better than the fglrx driver :)
<OerHeks> I am a nvidia-man myself, never had an ATI card that worked flawlessly
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: hi mate
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> what's up?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: relaxed day today, nothing much
<BluesKaj> same here,..it's hot outside , 30 atm
<lotuspsychje> bit cooler here today
<OerHeks> few rainy days ahead \0/
<BluesKaj> good, my daughter arives in Barcelona tomorrow morning, she was worried about the heat wave, Then she leaves for Pamplona on wed.
<OerHeks> ai Barcelona, that can be 40'C
<lotuspsychje> yeah hot
<BluesKaj> the temps should be more comfortable by wed tho
<OerHeks> http://www.weeronline.nl/Europa/Spanje/155
<BluesKaj> ok 21 in Pamplona, good
<lotuspsychje> scary silent in #ubuntu
<Johnny_Linux> thanks to bazhang
<Johnny_Linux> tyrant
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Johnny_Linux> how goes it
<lotuspsychje> fine Johnny_Linux and you?
<Johnny_Linux> not bad,
<Johnny_Linux> nice
<Johnny_Linux> Critical vulnerabilities (CVE-2015-5122, CVE-2015-5123) have been identified in Adobe Flash Player 18.0.0.204 and earlier versions for Windows, Macintosh and Linux. Successful exploitation could cause a crash and potentially allow an attacker to take control of the affected system.
<Johnny_Linux> yay adobe
<Johnny_Linux> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/12/adobe_flash_zero_day_cve_2015_5122/
<lotuspsychje> adobe is dead :p
<lotuspsychje> another service that gets mass exploited worldwide..
<Johnny_Linux> yeah
<OerHeks> it is not mentioned here yet http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<OerHeks> but i am more afraid of these https://www.exploit-db.com/shellcode/
<Johnny_Linux> i did the research cuz it crashed twice today
<lotuspsychje> botnets with 0day flash exploits are scanning the whole world ip's
<lotuspsychje> and manual metasploits
<OerHeks> sometimes pages keep on loading stuff, even as it seems that the page is complete.
<lotuspsychje> EriC^: evening mate
<EriC^> evening lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<EriC^^> :p
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<EriC^^> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> fine here
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: o/ , Considering all I should be doing, and how HOT it is here, and I am setting here on this terminal, and our air conditioner works well, I am doing well ! You ?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Good to read you also .
<lotuspsychje> evening Bashing-om :p
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: i'm good, wish i had some cigarettes though
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Your evening ? Recon you are winding down ? Been slow ?
 * Johnny_Linux lights one up
<lotuspsychje> 22h53
<EriC^^> Johnny_Linux: :P
<Johnny_Linux> el oh el
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Are you in the process of of a willing withdrawal ?
<lotuspsychje> puff puff pass Johnny_Linux
<EriC^^> no, just the store was closed today and i was too lazy to go get
<Johnny_Linux> woohoo
<lotuspsychje> lazy sundayz :p
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: I feel for you, I went through that situation last weekend, here was a Holiday; and my drug suppliers were not available.
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> rofl
<EriC^^> nevermind, i dunno why i was being silly, i somehow thought you meant something else
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Most likely not "something else" as I consider my nicotene habit as correlating to a drug also .
<EriC^^> oh ok
<lotuspsychje> huh wot
<EriC^^> drug suppliers sounded so sketchy
 * lotuspsychje has drugs as highlight
<EriC^^> like i thought heroin or something
<Bashing-om> gonna go embibe and smoke . Wont take long .
<EriC^^> well i found a cigarette
<Bashing-om> :), me too - all better now .
<lotuspsychje> so far for quality ubuntu discussions :p
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: at least we're not scaring anyone away with odd conversations this time :P
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> beer n drug5 suits everyone indeed :p
<EriC^^> haha
<lotuspsychje> one big happy familly ubuntu around the globe :p
<Bashing-om> Happy ? You have not seen me, when I break grub and can not boot !
<lotuspsychje> ouch
<lotuspsychje> what did you do Bashing-om
<EriC^^> i just thought this was hilarious http://cdn.acidcow.com/content/img/new02/57/tn.jpg
<Johnny_Linux> D`oh!
<Bashing-om> Roll my sleeves up, and get the more comfortable with the boot process ( what I want to do where and when ) !
<Johnny_Linux> hilarious
<lotuspsychje> a lil stress EriC^^ :p
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: ^ a 2 pack-a-day habit ?
<Johnny_Linux> he goes through 2 lighters per day
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> if you google ubuntu logo + smoking you get a ton of weird stuff
<EriC^^> lol Johnny_Linux
<EriC^^> this comes up for some reason http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2009/03/10/smoke_peace_pipe.jpg
<Johnny_Linux> dog gone
<lotuspsychje> oO
<OerHeks> heh that is what dogs do
<OerHeks> shame the follow up article is gone > http://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/04/SLN151664/en?dgc=SM&cid=259487&lid=5529686
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-11
<lordievader> Good morning.
<OerHeks> hey lordievader :-)\
<lordievader> Hey OerHeks, how are you?
<ducasse> morning, all!
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<ducasse> all is well?
<OerHeks> fine thank you, long time no see lordievader
<OerHeks> hi ducasse
<lordievader> Here it is :) how are you ducasse
<lordievader> OerHeks: Great. Indeed, long time ;)
<ducasse> couldn't be better :)
<ducasse> this "ubuntu on windows" thing is not something that is supported in #ubuntu, is it?
<OerHeks> !ubuwin
<ubot5> Canonical and Microsoft have announced that Windows 10 will be able to run Ubuntu programs without needing porting/recompilation. This functionality is still in beta and is not supported in #ubuntu. For discussion and support, see #ubuntu-on-windows.
<OerHeks> ducasse, ^^  glad we don't have to
 * ducasse breathes a sigh of relief
<ducasse> i seriously wanted to tell that guy to f**k off, but i'd probably been banned.
<OerHeks> there is other dude, that runs ubuntu on top of win10 ..
<OerHeks> not official i guess
<OerHeks> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/you-can-now-run-ubuntu-linux-with-the-unity-desktop-on-top-of-windows-10-506159.shtml
<ducasse> omg.
 * ducasse buries his head in is hands and cries quietly.
<OerHeks> wait ..
<OerHeks> this one makes me bark .. https://community.skype.com/t5/Linux/Exciting-news-for-Linux-users/td-p/4430988
<ducasse> i really couldn't care less about skype for linux, imo we should promote open options...
<ducasse> but, "exciting news" - they really are full of themselves :)
<DJones> If they update the desktop app for skype, then all well and good to them, not something I use anyway, but would consider if it was regularly updated
<ark-knight> is it possible to download a cd that automatically installs ubuntu?
<daftykins> that sounds a lot like a support question which belongs in #ubuntu
<daftykins> and no
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-12
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hey ! just in time to see my back side .
<lotuspsychje> howdy Bashing-om how are you?
<Bashing-om> Oh, tolerating. Other wise not to shabby ... you ?
<lotuspsychje> fine, but alot of work :p
<lotuspsychje> in summer temperatures
<Bashing-om> work is good for what ails ya ... no ?
<lotuspsychje> yeah im getting there step a step
<lotuspsychje> doing alot of paperwork for my business too
<Bashing-om> Yep, not done till the paper work is done .
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Have a good session .. catch ya later .. I got to cease and desist .
<ducasse> morning all
<OerHeks> hi ducasse
<ducasse> \o
<Bashing-om> WB pauljw . Good day to ya .
<pauljw> ty Bashing-om, same.
<nicomachus> man, upgrading to 16.04 really caused some issues with irssi
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Oh, do not say ! .. I am anticopating a new clean install with 16.04 .. and irssi is my client too !
<nicomachus> Bashing-om: it comes with a new version of irssi with built-in SASL, so if you're using the cap_sasl.pl script now it'll break that. you have to remove the script and reconfigure SASL in the /NETWORK ADD settings.
<nicomachus> which also broke all my auto-joins, so I had to re-do them.
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Yeah .. been doing my homework .. was aware of that SASL is now built-in . When I install 16.04 is going to be an adventure .. going to re-do my complete setup .. going to install hybrid SSD/HDD .
<nicomachus> I'm having trouble with PulseAudio too, I think...
<nicomachus> Idk. Spotify and Clementine are both not playing songs.
<nicomachus> Haven't dug too deep into it yet.
<Bashing-om> I do not use them, so no ideas .
<Guest31303> I do not have a nick set up yet
<runrickus> any word on the stae of the forums yet?
<Bashing-om> Hey runrickus .. Good to read ya .
<runrickus> Hey there bashing-om
<runrickus> Dose anyone know anything yet
<Bashing-om> runrickus: still down for me .. a running commentary on #ubuntuforums .
<pauljw> me too
<runrickus> Yeppers same here!lol
<pauljw> seems the forums are back
<daftykins> ah har is that your preferred venue? :)
<pauljw> not necessarily
<Bashing-om> logged back into the forum at this time ..looks good to me .
<daftykins> sounds like it's very unreliable
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Had it's problems these last few days . No idea of what is breaking .
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-13
<pauljw> gnite all
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> morning, lotuspsychje - how are you?
<lotuspsychje> great mate, and you ducasse
<ducasse> fine, thanks, just a bit tired still :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<ducasse> how are things going with the business?
<lotuspsychje> slowly getting there
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: website takes a while
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: they often do :)
<lotuspsychje> laterz
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<OerHeks> Skype for linux, based on WebRTC, beta out.    https://community.skype.com/t5/Linux/Skype-for-Linux-Alpha-and-calling-on-Chrome-amp-Chromebooks/td-p/4434299
<baizon> nope
<baizon> chromium base + missing video chat = sucky sucky
<DArqueBishop> Missing features is kind of a given, considering they explicitly stated it's an alpha.
<DArqueBishop> The program itself says "Skype for Linux Alpha" in the titlebar.
<baizon> but why is it alpha? we got it already on their website
<DArqueBishop> It's an alpha of the standalone application.
<DArqueBishop> Just because one version of it is in production doesn't mean another version isn't in testing stages.
<baizon> ok... https://imgur.com/CAskCjp
<DArqueBishop> My point still stands. It sounds like the new version is a complete code rewrite, so it makes sense that not everything is ready yet in the new build.
<DArqueBishop> Just because the features aren't there now doesn't mean they'll never be there.
<Bashing-om> WB daftykins :)
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> thanks! monthly reboot for patch tuesday
<Bashing-om> Hey, for once, I loged in here,, and no daftykins .. I was a bit concerned for your status .
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ah i think i woke up, turned on my phone and RDP'd to my file server, saw it had finally found updates since last night and then rebooted it - so no more Linux VM until i got home from some jobs and booted it :)
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/EwgYOSI.jpg do these caps look blown? they've peaked up in the centre (not the middle one of the 3 circled)
<daftykins> pauljw: heya \o
<OerHeks> they look popped yeah
<OerHeks> is the bottom bold too? cannot see it clearly
<daftykins> yep, only the middle one of the 3 there seems fine
<daftykins> i don't think this board is worth fixing though! someone local would charge Â£40 easy to swap those
<OerHeks> you would only do that with a Â¤200 board .. and still, where did that come from? there is alwayse a source
<daftykins> this PC came from one of my clients, one of their two office machines i put together back in 2009
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-14
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<tgm4883> nacc: I can't do it
<nacc> tgm4883: me neither :)
<tgm4883> I'm not sure why users think they need to hide stuff from us
<tgm4883> tell the truth, take your lashing, and move on
<Bashing-om> The truth, the whole truth ...... and nothing but the truth; thank you .
<tgm4883> it's like dealing with children sometimes....
<nacc> tgm4883: yeah, basically after 15 minutes, no difference -- ask the ppa owner for support :)
<ducasse> what's the state on snaps and support? are they supported in #ubuntu, or by the developer?
<tgm4883> hmm, good question
<tgm4883> ducasse: the developer I would think
<ducasse> ok. what about the canonical snaps?
<ducasse> :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2321161 ; http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2327088 shed any light ?
<tgm4883> ducasse: does canonical make snaps?
<tgm4883> snaps should "Just work"(TM) so if they don't, it seems like support should be with the developer
<ducasse> tgm4883: well, they are listed as developer on some of them
<ducasse> tgm4883: ufw and nextcloud, for example
<tgm4883> ducasse: we should probably define what support is. All it could likely be with any snap is "reproduce issue, figure out if issue is with package or snappy, file bug"
<tgm4883> ducasse: UFW has a snap?
<tgm4883> that... doesn't even make sense
<ducasse> tgm4883: for ubuntu core, i just noticed
<tgm4883> eh, I guess so
<tgm4883> since it's just configuring iptables
<nacc> tgm4883: so you can put it on the list of things not to install? :)
<tgm4883> yea pretty much
<tgm4883> It would be also interesting to see if the user is just misinformed
<tgm4883> maybe it just says it supports one version of the kernel
<nacc> tgm4883: yeah, but given their response to why was "ask the devs /rof", I don't know if they know
<OerHeks> Well gentlemen, we tried.
<nacc> OerHeks: :)
 * OerHeks is trying to upgrade 15.10-16.04 .. for 3rd day now .. too busy doing something else important
<nicomachus> OerHeks: good luck. what IRC client are you using?
<OerHeks> hexchat
<nicomachus> ok. 16.04 comes with a new version of irssi that breaks a lot of configs, so just checking.
<OerHeks> actually i am ready, backup done, usb ready with iso, just hit the upgrade button ..
<OerHeks> i read that yesterday, irssi
<nicomachus> it's easy to fix, just a bit frustrating when I didn't realize what was going on. :)
<OerHeks> didn't know that issue, not seen in #ubuntu anyway
<nicomachus> All of a sudden SASL was broken and I couldn't connect to freenode over proxy.
<nicomachus> probably because the people that need help can't get connected. haha
<OerHeks> likely, yes
<OerHeks> but then they would go over to webchat.
<nicomachus> Google gives an answer pretty quickly, though.
<nicomachus> having trouble figuring out why the kernel versions are different between my two xenial machines. :/
<nacc> nicomachus: what are the two versions?
<nicomachus> https://paste.ubuntu.com/19389046/
<nacc> so they both have 4.4.0-28 installed
<nicomachus> the weird part is, Box 2 on that paste is using the -28 kernel, not the -41
<nicomachus> nacc: but Box 1 is using -31 (just installed)
<nacc> nicomachus: you'd want to box 2 to be using -28, -41 is the 4.2.0 15.10 kernel
<nacc> nicomachus: i think it's just a timing thing, my mirror just got the new kernel (-31) in the last 10 minutes
<nicomachus> nacc: ah, I didn't consider the -41 being leftover from 15.10
<nicomachus> I suppose I may get the -31 for it later today. just checked and it wasn't there yet.
<nacc> nicomachus: you could always switch to the primary archive (or use the same as box 1), but that update just rolled out today
<nicomachus> they are the same, oddly.
<nacc> strange!
<OerHeks> 4.2.0.42.45 rolling in here too
<OerHeks> 15.10
<OerHeks> brb
<nicomachus> nowww I'm getting -31 on this box.
<nacc> nicomachus: very strange!
<daftykins> you didn't need sudo to look in /boot :D
<nicomachus> daftykins: yea you're right. oh well.
<nicomachus> I was thinking it gave a more complete list, but it's the same.
<daftykins> :)
<tgm4883> rsync is not a backup...
<nacc> heh
<lordievader> It can do backup tasks... Dirvish, a backup utility, is a simple wrapper around rsync.
<tgm4883> lordievader: I'd argue it's not doing a backup task then
<tgm4883> but ok, rsync, without some sort of wrapper, is not a backup utility
<lordievader> Can still be.
<tgm4883> lordievader: meh, it can be in the same way that cp can be
<lordievader> Yes, a very manual backup utility.
<tgm4883> OerHeks: I must be irritable today
<dax> duplicity <3
<OerHeks> not in my ears
<nacc> tgm4883: me too :0
<tgm4883> wth is deep trying to do?
<nacc> something wrong, presuambly
<nacc> but won't tell waht
<tgm4883> yea
<tgm4883> !slap jilocasin0
<nacc> heh
<OerHeks> there is a repeat in #ubuntu ..
<OerHeks> utoxication
<tgm4883> nacc: pretty sure I found his issue
<nacc> tgm4883: ack, is it just me or are those .bashrc modifications fubar?
<tgm4883> yea they are all wrong I think
<tgm4883> I'm verifying now
<tgm4883> hmm, maybe not
<tgm4883> there it is
<tgm4883> nice find nacc
<tgm4883> nacc: it's definitely that PATH=y
<nacc> yep
<nacc> tgm4883: it's like pulling teeth!
<tgm4883> yep
<tgm4883> ones where people can't copy&paste are especially difficult
<tgm4883> I should go get lunch
 * nacc too! it's afternoon already
<tgm4883> Some days I wish you could curse in #ubuntu
<runrickus> Bashing-om hello
<Bashing-om> hey ole friend .. " ubuntuforums.org refused to connect." :(
<runrickus> Yeppers! You knew what i was going to ask...lol
<Bashing-om> runrickus: I had that idea .. #ubuntu-forums : < bapoumba> IS took it down again .
<runrickus> Boy that was fast...I was just reading that when it went down
<Bashing-om> runrickus: Whatever happened to a warning that we were going down ?
<runrickus> I will Pm you on that...good reason though
<Bashing-om> Hokay .. will look forward to the advisement.
<tgm4883> nacc: maybe we should change our nicks. Add a -dds on the end
<nacc> tgm4883: heh
<tgm4883> nacc: has it always been this bad?
<nacc> tgm4883: it seems especially bad today
<tgm4883> ok, thought it was just me
<nacc> and there are more ... helpful? ... people who are chiming in with potentially bad advice than normal
<tgm4883> yea I noticed that too
<tgm4883> nacc: I think I see the confusion earlier. linux-image isn't a metapackage
<nacc> ah
<tgm4883> so he should just need to remove linux-image (and the other kernels he doesn't want)
<tgm4883> then be fine
<tgm4883> provided he has the one that he wants installed
<nacc> tgm4883: i was wondering about that
<tgm4883> yea virtual packages are weird
<tgm4883> I guess they don't really have a version number associated with them
<nacc> rmadison says linux-image only existed in precise :)
<nacc> linux-image-generic should be pinnable, though
<tgm4883> nacc: perhaps
<tgm4883> nacc: although
<tgm4883> he's probably on trusty?
<nacc> yeah, that's what i read based upon the kernel version
<tgm4883> yea linux-image is in trusty too
<nacc> i wonder why rmadison doesn't see it, maybe it went from real to virtual at that point
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-15
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> morning!
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> im digging in legal notice files
<lotuspsychje> and disclaimer and privacy for my website
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: ah, that should be interesting. have you got a lawyer to help you?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: well i found an online lawyer company, but they charge 500$ for standard stuff
<ducasse> btw; do you know how/where i can get the keycodes from keys that readline/bash expects?
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: is that for one hour?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: no, for the whole deal
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: keycodes, no sorry :p
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: that's not bad, actually. imo.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: well im gonna try it myself first with model docs i found
<lotuspsychje> bbl breakfast :p
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: there are probably hundreds of such disclaimers online you can 'rip', but there might be a requierement to have a lawyer at least approve it.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: well the files i found came from official bureau that helps belgian companys
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: ok, enjoy breakfast:)
<lotuspsychje> tnx mate
<pavlushka> I like to know what is a rollback for a user in askubuntu forum?
<pavlushka> sorry I better ask it in #ubuntu-offtopic, :)
<daftykins> \o
<OerHeks> |o|
<ducasse> \o/
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> everywhere we went in town (the island's capital) last night, having a few drinks for a friends birthday, people out playing PokÃ©mon even close to midnight
<daftykins> madness :P
<tsimonq2> I know
<tsimonq2> PokÃ©mon Go is madness
<ducasse> "oh noes, poor me, ctrl+shift+v is sooooo much work!"
<ducasse> lol
<tsimonq2> lol
<daftykins> wussat? someone whinging about consistency?
<tsimonq2> ducasse: Ctrl + Alt + Shift + Esc + Delete + Z + P + 6 opens a terminal for you, doesn't it? :P
<ducasse> daftykins: bobslaw-skillwit in #ubuntu, he's really whining
<ducasse> tsimonq2: wait till he tries emacs :)
<daftykins> yeah, i'm on forced retirement from the channel unfortunately ;)
<daftykins> (banned)
<tsimonq2> oh jesus, ducasse
<tsimonq2> ducasse: VIM! :D
<ducasse> hehe, let's not go there :)
 * tsimonq2 wonders if !war is a thing, tries in PM with ubottu
<tsimonq2> gosh darnit
<daftykins> oh but i can't ;)
<tsimonq2> !vim
<ubot5> Text Editors: gedit (GNOME), Kate (KDE), mousepad (Xfce4) - Terminal-based: nano, vi/vim, emacs, ed - For HTML/CSS editors, see !html - For programming editors and IDE, see !code
<tsimonq2> heheheheheh
<tsimonq2> what's ed? lol
<tsimonq2> "ed is a line-oriented text editor." - sounds painful
<tsimonq2> but I said that about Vim before I tried it
<tsimonq2> soon I'll be running Gentoo, i3, and ed, you all watch ;)
<tsimonq2> but I digress
<ducasse> i3 <3
<tsimonq2> snapcraft is fun
<tsimonq2> I'm contributing a checksumming option, and it uses Python <3
<ducasse> i've been thinking of making a snap with wine+winbox, wonder how much work it would be...
<BluesKaj> howdy folks
<daftykins> heya \o
<daftykins> how goes it in BluesKaj-land?
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins, good here, how about you?
<daftykins> nursing a slightly funny feeling head after some drinks last night for a friends birthday, but other than that - not bad thanks :D
<daftykins> might upgrade the RAM in my file server today \o/
<daftykins> depends what i can find :) archaic DDR2
<BluesKaj> right, I'm trying to figure a way to get pia vpn client installed on the pi3
<daftykins> hmm
<ducasse> BluesKaj: can't you just use openvpn?
<BluesKaj> yes the client uses openvpn , but the tuts for pi2 don't work on pi3 and there doesn't seem to be much info in the search engines...on arm it's basically cli commands . their gui doesn't work so fr
<BluesKaj> so far
<BluesKaj> I'm sure I'll find a method eventually, probly need some patience since the pi3 is still relatively new
<ducasse> i just use manual openvpn configuration with their config files for pia, works fine for me.
<BluesKaj> ducasse:  on pi3?
<ducasse> no, admittedly not, does openvpn behave differently there?
<BluesKaj> apparently so, the pi2 seems to have methods that work , but I haven't found any for the pi3 that actually work here.
<ducasse> can't you just use 'openvpn --config Switzerland.ovpn' for example?
<BluesKaj>  Options error: In [CMD-LINE]:1: Error opening configuration file: Switzerland.ovpn
<ducasse> you need to give the full path to it
<ducasse> i also add the full paths to the ca.crt and the password file in that .ovpn file
<ducasse> you can find the openvpn.zip/openvpn-strong.zip archives here https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/client-support/ under "advanced openvpn usage guides"
<BluesKaj> ducasse: already tried all that in a couple of tuts and it errored out with a similar output as above
<ducasse> BluesKaj: all i can say is that it _should_ work fine, i had to make those two edits to the config files to start up without further input, but that's it. no matter what platform i was on.
<BluesKaj>  been using piavpn successfully for 2 yrs on linux, this is my first try with ARM architecture
<ducasse> i use it on both arm and mips, no issues.
<DJones> Folks just giving a heads up on this https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/07/15/notice-of-security-breach-on-ubuntu-forums/?utm_source=ubunteu&utm_medium=url_shortner&utm_term=pDfyZZ&utm_campaign=shortner
<ducasse> thankfully i have 2fa on the ubuntu sites, but thanks for the heads up DJones
<DJones> No worries, just saw it on twitter, thought it worth mentioning here
<ducasse> it absolutely is :)
<lecteur> bonjour
<nicomachus> Gustaw seems upset
<Bashing-om> Annnddd .. spreading the dis-content ??
<dax> Bashing-om: if you mean tortib, he's displeased about a ban in another channel
<dax> also, lol that forums breach, i guess they only got OpenID strings :3
<dax> (plus usernames and emails... who cares)
<Bashing-om> My thoughts too .. glad, however, that the intrusion was detected . :)
<dax> indeed :)
<OerHeks> ð
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: ^ one of few words .
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> hey all \o i'm playing with old LGA775 kit again today
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/dVdptqz.jpg
<Bashing-om> Oh having fun now ... making new standoffs for the mainboard ?
<dax> my 775 board was a P5K-E, looks kinda similar to that :)
<daftykins> dax: that's the one in the case! :)
<dax> or wait is the one in the computer an -E... yeah
<OerHeks> i love big a big fan bending motherboard :-D
<dax> I only saw the right-hand one at first
<daftykins> Bashing-om: nah just testing before going to the effort of swapping out, although the small one on the left has blown caps
<dax> good board.
<daftykins> that one is quite a doosy on the right - a P5KC, my file server runs on one too (and this VM I'm typing from) - it has DDR2 and 3 slots on the same board
<nicomachus> daftykins: I have an LGA775 in my HTPC at home
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> sturdy old dogs eh?
<nicomachus> mmhmm. running a Core2Duo 2.7ghz in mine, with 4gb DDR2
<nicomachus> and a half-decent Radeon 6450
<nicomachus> HD
<daftykins> ah har - got c2d E7400's here, 2.8GHz
<daftykins> kinda mixing and matching bits to make good combos at the moment, though this working board i've just put in is being a pig and not POSTing with more than 1 RAM module
<nicomachus> not sure what the exact number is on mine... can't reach it from work right now because I think my girlfriend switched the VPN on
<nicomachus> probably sailing the seven seas
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> what's the reason for the VPN thar?
<nicomachus> sailing the seven seas, boarding honest ships and plundering.
<daftykins> ^_^
<dax> i had a q6600 in mine. only replaced it less than a year ago
<dax> lga775 was right around the time CPU stopped being the bottleneck for things and ssds became popular, iirc ^_^
<daftykins> that's mine sat here spare on the floor too, 8GB DDR2 - sadly found it was my nvidia 560Ti stopping any machine it was in from working properly
<daftykins> put in some basic cards though and they're loving life again, considering selling them right now
<dax> yeah, i eventually concluded that my HD7870 cooked itself and the issues that made me ditch the P5K-E weren't caused by the P5K-E
<dax> but the new stuff is very speedy so i'm not too sad ;)
<daftykins> yep! i feel much the same
<daftykins> i've offered the Q6600 for Â£100 to a friend, SSD and other disks too - so really it just needs a graphics card and it could be a pretty decent gaming machine again
<daftykins> got it running with two DIMMs, yay
<daftykins> do i push my luck (:
<daftykins> pauljw: hi sir o/
<daftykins> yay POST with all 4 DIMMs \o/
<pauljw> \o daftykins
<tgm4883> Q6600 owners unite!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> you'll all be pleased too, as i just installed ubuntu on this core 2 duo i was fixing up
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-16
<tsimonq2> "fixing up" = Lubuntu
 * tsimonq2 runs
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/ubuntu-forums-hacked-2-million-usernames-stolen
<lotuspsychje> holy smokin
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Yeah; https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/07/15/notice-of-security-breach-on-ubuntu-forums/
<lotuspsychje> crazy
<Bashing-om> last couple of days have been " something else " .
<lotuspsychje> yeah im figuring
<lotuspsychje> it will be a good lesson in sql injection
<lotuspsychje> so many webs are vulnerable
<ducasse> morning all :)
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje - how are you?
<lotuspsychje> fine mate tnx
<lotuspsychje> working day today :p
<ducasse> ah :) when are you leaving for work?
<lotuspsychje> start at 12
<ducasse> good with some free time first :) did you figure out the disclaimer/privacy stuff?
<lotuspsychje> yeah im getting there
<lotuspsychje> the text are pretty well made
<lotuspsychje> so i only have to enter companys name etc
<lotuspsychje> and here and there adjust some policy of my own company
<ducasse> great. i've got a zillion things to do today, i spent most of the day yesterday fiddling with my i3 desktop :)
<lotuspsychje> oh cool
<lotuspsychje> i should try that one day :p
<ducasse> i rarely spend time on things like that, but i just wanted to fix and test a few things. after i got started i couldn't stop :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.31.33 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 11 kB
<BluesKaj> hi all
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - did you get vpn working?
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse, nope, seems the pia openvpn isn't compatible with the pi3 ovpn files and the openbpn version on the pi3
<BluesKaj> openvpn version
<ducasse> odd. what happens when you try?
<BluesKaj> anyway if I want to download torrents the socks5 proxy works with the pia url for socks5 users in qbittorrent and provides fields for the pia username and pw
<ducasse> isn't that really slow?
<BluesKaj> not on my dsl connecttion
<BluesKaj> it's a tunnel thru the pia provider, basically a vpn for torrent clients
<ducasse> when i tried there was a significant difference, but i guess it depends on your bandwidth.
<BluesKaj> I have a 6mb or 700kbs connection here and i t ranat 630 or so consistently during a test
<ducasse> ah, mine is 250mbps.
<BluesKaj> I could pay thru the nose for a 40mb cable internet service, but I'm retired and on fixed income and don't need to get fleeced
<BluesKaj> in the boonies here ...
<ducasse> internet is pretty cheap here, but i don't normally have more than 150. there was an offer where i got 250 for six months at no extra cost, but at the end of august i'm back at 150.
<BluesKaj> Canada has a sparse population vs the land area so commiunication is expensive here , it's just a fact of life
<ducasse> most people here live in the cities, as do i, so i'm pretty lucky. i could get symmetric gb fiber for a little more, but what for?
<BluesKaj> well, it works well enough for our needs and it's consistent ...my internet is $35/mos cdn and that's the way I like it
<ducasse> how much is that in usd?
<BluesKaj> the .ovpn config files from pia just doin't wortk with my version of openvpn for the pi3 , that's my conclusion ...I couldn't figure what the error is , so i settled for the socks5 proxy solution
<ducasse> as long as it works :-)
<BluesKaj> 35cdn is about 30us
<ducasse> not too bad, then. i pay a little bit more, not much, but i understand why the difference is there. i live in a very small country :)
<BluesKaj> it's not so much  the speed here, it's the cost of infrastructure and hardware...the cities are much cheaper due to the the competition
<ducasse> right. the boonies over there are really the boonies compared to here.
<BluesKaj> I live in a town of 5K population and I'm 70KM from a small city of 150K population, the nearest large city (Toronto) is 450KM from here
<ducasse> my mother lives in what i consider to be the boonies, and that's 45km from the nearest big city...
<ducasse> otoh, we don't have large cities on that scale.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-17
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<ducasse> morning!
<lotuspsychje> need to go work again
<lotuspsychje> laterz ducasse :p
<lotuspsychje> have fun
<pepee> http://worldwidemann.com/the-sad-state-of-linux-download-security/  ubuntu doesn't even offer https.
<daftykins> are you the one that came to speak about that one Christmas?
<pepee> I don't think so
<ducasse> this old chestnut again...
<daftykins> ducasse: indeed
<daftykins> there's not enough tinfoil in all the world
<pepee> what's wrong with that?
<ducasse> *crickets*
<OerHeks> pepee, that url does not even offer https..
<pepee> yeah, well, they don't need it
<OerHeks> That would be exactly your answer too.
<pepee> it's a blog, not a big corporation offering OSes for free
<ducasse> research the issue a bit, and you'll understand why it's a non-issue
<pepee> because of the gpg signatures?
<pepee> do you think everyone will check them?
<daftykins> if your argument is that the site could be compromised, then the hashes could be too
<daftykins> but if you really care, run something else
<pepee> I should publish this conversation
<pepee> ironically, canonical offered (offers?) cloud services
<pepee> btw, my guess is that you think I'm attacking ubuntu here, or something. I'm not... I'm just saying that canonical could offer downloads over https. how is that bad?
<mwd> they /could/ offer drone deliveries of ubuntu dvds as well
<mwd> if your argument is that "nobody checks gpg signatures", you can just as well argue "everybody clicks through to accept invalid TLS certs"
<pepee> oh yeah, let's go to extreme arguments to defend ourselves
<pepee> by that logic, canonical could offer free energy to everyone, too
<pepee> also, I remember a time when canonical sent CDs for free ;)
<pepee> mwd, I don't think everybody who uses ubuntu would accept invalid certs
<Bashing-om> Back in the day .. they almost did - drone - . My 1st re-install ( 9.04 (k)ubuntu )) canonical sent me the disk by mail ( 4 days !) for free .
<pepee> or even most people...
<OerHeks> i have them allmost complete up to 14.04
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Uh Huh ... I still have the 6.06 DVD - note the out of sequence number .. the only release not done on time !
<daftykins> pepee: This is a publically logged channel, it is already published. The mistakes you make are that no, we do not see it as an attack on the distribution - but a waste of time. The second mistake you make is thinking any of us have official ties to Canonical.
<daftykins> nobody here is defending, because nobody here is responsible
<pepee> I assumed you don't
<mwd> pepee, consider a side effect of using TLS for image delivey, which is that some users will decide that "since it used TLS, it's secure" and forego the GPG check. That is, they'll trust the mirror ... which is probably a Bad Thing
<pepee> I can type /whois
<pepee> still, this is #ubuntu-discuss
<daftykins> pepee: except you did that after, since you made the mistake in earlier comments.
<pepee> I did?
<daftykins> pepee: the last time this topic came up, i thought "yeah, why not https the mirrors?" and passed it on to a staffer... but they confirmed the thought we all had, there are many mirrors out there who host the ubuntu images - they would have to set it up too, so it'd be a lot of work and so unlikely to happen apparently
<ducasse> besides, it's recommended to use torrents for image downloads
<pepee> mwd, err, you are saying that security-minded people don't trust the site now, but they can check has gpg sigs... but then, they would trust it if it used https? I don't think so, tbh. if they are security minded, they would know what to do.
<mwd> the security minded check the GPG sig and move on
<pepee> ducasse, true, I was going to say that, the blog post doesn't even mention torrents
<pepee> mwd, exactly
<mwd> so TLS does not change their workflow
<mwd> but it encourages the less security oriented to trust mirrors
<mwd> well, may encourage. i can't predict people exactly
<pepee> daftykins, there is let's encrypt now
<pepee> that makes it easy to setup https automatically. so why not?
<mwd> LE updates itself with newer versions as root
<ducasse> https all the things!
<mwd> there are a lot of people who are not very comfortable with that
<daftykins> pepee: i don't think you quite consider the implications here, so i shall pin this on naivety and walk away.
<pepee> ok
<daftykins> enjoy arguing things with the wrong people over the wrong medium than that which can bring about change.
<pepee> which is?
<pepee> someone told me to come to this channel
<ducasse> tls has its own problems
<mwd> he didn't say that ubuntu management was here waiting for your feedback
<mwd> ducasse, Fedora scored much better in that https survey, looks like the problems aren't so big after all
<mwd> pepee, open a bug or request for enhancement in the ubuntu bug tracker
<pepee> ok
<ducasse> you could also try talking to the people in #ubuntu-website, but you may not get the answer you want
<daftykins> pepee: there should already be a bug relevant to this, give me the number if you find / create one and i'll ask a staffer who can add the correct person to it
<pepee> I'll check if there are similar requests already...
<Bashing-om> !info linux-image-generic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.31.33 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 11 kB
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-10
<BenderRodriguez> Is the linux desktop an unattainable dream
<BenderRodriguez> ?
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> hi xangua & Dreyk
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader & EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> morning to you guys
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> morning
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, EriC^^. How are you guys?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<EriC^^> hey lordievader , good thanks, you?
<lotuspsychje> 2 days off
<lordievader> Doing good here, waiting for the train to leave.
<lotuspsychje> cool lordievader
<daftykins> *yawn*
<lordievader> Hey daftykins
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> back to the week and getting other things done, phew
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj_
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> goodhere, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here, writing a paper.
<lotuspsychje> afternoon to all
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> How are you doing on your day off?
<lotuspsychje> great here, did a lil shopping
<immu> hii allllll
<daftykins> \o
<immu> daftykins, /o\
<daftykins> what's new?
<immu> nothing watching tv
<immu> u
<immu> where is everybody :)
<daftykins> i've got a game on right now, Mass Effect Andromeda
<immu> coool
<immu> i heard this game sucks
<daftykins> i think it's been another one of those cases of the internet echo chamber, lots of people said that so many agreed - i love it personally
<daftykins> but then i'm a fanboy of the whole franchise
<immu> mass effect first three series where cool
<immu> but since you like it i rest my case :) njoy
<daftykins> if you liked the last, it's worth a go
<immu> sure :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-11
<oerheks> Ubuntu now available from the Windows Store
<oerheks> 192.34 MB
<oerheks> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/ubuntu/9nblggh4msv6
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/07/ubuntu-uncertain-using-wayland-default
<lotuspsychje> uh-oh...
<BluesKaj> 'Morning all
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> hey lordievader , good here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here too :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-12
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/07/arc-menu-gnome-shell-now-lets-edit-menu-button-icon-text
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/07/tags-tab-restore-features-coming-to-nautilus
<xangua> Too late, I'm using KDE
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<pauljw> good morning BluesKaj, everyone.
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj_, pauljw
<lordievader> How are you guys?
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-13
<EriC^^> morning all
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<lordievader> Morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> morning lordievader , how are you?
<lordievader> Mwoah, okay. Forgot my charger yesterday and too lazy to see if I can get a key to pick it up.
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<lordievader> o/
<BluesKaj> \o  :-)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-14
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<immu> hiyaaa
<lordievader> o/
<immu> heyaa alll again
<immu> waves to everybody here awake or present :)
<EriC^^> afternoon all
<lordievader> o/
<EriC^^> hey lordievader , how are you?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<lordievader> How are you?
<EriC^^> good thanks :)
<EriC^^> hey pauljw :) how's it going?
<pauljw> hi EriC^^ , doing fine here, how are you?  :)
<EriC^^> doing good thanks :)
<lotuspsychje> afternoon guys
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> how's it going
<EriC^^> ?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lotuspsychje> im having issue with a lenovo
<lotuspsychje> weird flickering
<EriC^^> anything in dmesg?
<lotuspsychje> nothing i can find really
<EriC^^> how's the shop going overall?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: pretty nice, my 9th invoice now
<EriC^^> awesome
<lotuspsychje> small sells, but its a start
<EriC^^> yup
<EriC^^> hey btw did i tell you i got a ssd?
<EriC^^> i think i did, nevermind :D
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^, lotuspsychje , which ssd EriC^^?
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj :)
<EriC^^> it's a kingston
<EriC^^> v400 or a400 i forgot, it blew me away though
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: wich Os running on it?
<EriC^^> ubuntu 16.04
<EriC^^> read/write speed i tried a test with dd it was like 500mb/sec
<BluesKaj> nice
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.83.89 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: could the acpi_osi stuff help maybe?
<EriC^^> sudo strings /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/DSDT | grep Windows
<immu> !info linux-image-generic artful
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.11.0.10.10 (artful), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: windows 2009, 2012,2013, 2013
<EriC^^> try with acpi_osi=\"Windows 2013\"
<EriC^^> hey immu
<immu> hey EriC^^ long time no seeee
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<immu> i am cool
<immu> u
<EriC^^> good thanks
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: rebooting with osi..
<EriC^^> ok
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: no dice
<EriC^^> do you have a 16.04 iso?
<lotuspsychje> not right now, but can make one quick
<EriC^^> ok, give it a shot
<lotuspsychje> but then i cant update to latest if that causes the flickering?
<EriC^^> you can, but you'll be on the xenial stack
<EriC^^> mine is also xenial, it's 4.4.0-83 right now
<EriC^^> runs well
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: downing .1
<EriC^^> ?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: 16.04
<EriC^^> did you try it?
<lotuspsychje> still grabbing
<EriC^^> oh ok :D
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: perhaps i should bug it, as im still on .2 here?
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: yup sure
<lotuspsychje> bug #1704409
<ubot5> bug 1704409 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Flickering screen on ubuntu 16.04 Lenovo B70" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1704409
<EriC^^> \o/
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: tryed installing 4.4.0.83 manually from existing install and no flickering after boot
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: so its a kernel thing
<EriC^^> nice
<lotuspsychje> but now my wifi chipset dont recognize lol
<EriC^^> yup
<EriC^^> hah :D
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lemme install 16.04 live now
<EriC^^> i think you also need to install the xorg stuff related to 4.4 and stuff  like that
<EriC^^> ok cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: tnx for the kernel hint
<EriC^^> np
<EriC^^> did you see spiderman homecoming?
<lotuspsychje> not yet
<lotuspsychje> any good?
<EriC^^> not bad
<EriC^^> pretty funny
<lotuspsychje> cool
<EriC^^> nice effects and shit
<lotuspsychje> ill "buy the dvd" :p
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> saw boss baby with kid of friends last
<lotuspsychje> also funny
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> not much titles in theaters have got my interest last months
<EriC^^> yeah nothing much there
<lotuspsychje> dark tower im curious about
<EriC^^> yup seems like a good one
<EriC^^> i saw so excited about that alien's covenant movie, i watched "prometheus" by mistake like a week earlier, then i said wth let's see the alien's covenant one cause i heard it's supposed to be good
<EriC^^> then early on in the movie it turns out to be related to the prometheus one xD
<EriC^^> so i was curious to see how it unfolds
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> any good?
<EriC^^> nasty freakin movie though, whenever i have to switch the electricity in the circuit breaker room i think something's about to jump at me
<EriC^^> alien bugs growing inside people, coming out of their backs and shit, lol
<lotuspsychje> jesus
<EriC^^> it's an interesting movie i guess, not really so meaningful and stuff though, just what's going to happen kind of stuff
<immu> it preview of whats to come ahead
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> nah, the arrival is more like it ;)
<EriC^^> nice friendly aliens
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: seems like 16.04 live doesnt flicker and wifi recognize x
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: so i can safely sudo apt full-upgrade right
<immu> you don't respond to remote calls for help in space
<lotuspsychje> but no dist-upgrade?
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: yeah you have to anyways :P
<EriC^^> hmm worse case you can run the older kernel via grub til something better comes out i guess
<EriC^^> (btw isn't full-upgrade same as dist-upgrade?)
<immu> how many are running artful
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: ill do regular upgrade then
<lotuspsychje> immu: im running on a testbox, why?
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: wait, you mean for the flickering or the wifi?
<EriC^^> if you dist-upgrade now you'll end up with still a 4.4 kernel
<nacc> EriC^^: yeah, full-upgrade is the 'new syntax' in apt, dist-upgrade is an alias of full-upgrade
<nacc> EriC^^: but apt-get doesn't support full-upgrade
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: for the flickering
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: it shouldn't be a problem to upgrade i think
<nacc> these days, full-upgrade and dist-upgrade are basically always afe, IMO
<nacc> *safe
<EriC^^> you'll end up with 4.4.0-83
<lotuspsychje> kk
<nacc> the difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade is that i believe dist-upgrade is allowed to remove packages
<EriC^^> nacc: yup
<EriC^^> nacc: why is ubuntu +r lately?
<nacc> EriC^^: i'm not sure -- there was some spamming last week, i think
<EriC^^> if someone isn't registered he can't join, this must be letting a lot of people not be able to join
<EriC^^> it's been like a month or more :/
<lotuspsychje> yeah longer
<lotuspsychje> perhaps a lot of botnets leaded to this
<EriC^^> we're letting them win
<EriC^^> -r that sucker and let the regs have some ops, we'll go crazy on the bots lol
<EriC^^> xD
<lotuspsychje> lol
<immu> lotuspsychje, just counting among the crowd as most people prefer to be on LTS release
<lotuspsychje> immu: its just to help !bug out for me
<lotuspsychje> immu: so we all have a nice & clean 18.04
<immu> yeah true :) you how big is our family nearly 45 to 50 million users
<lotuspsychje> immu: did you read devs are still uncertain about wayland for artful?
<immu> yeah i did
<immu> you can ask on ubuntu-desktop
<EriC^^> it's not ready yet?
<immu> willcook is theor
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/07/ubuntu-uncertain-using-wayland-default
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade on 16.04, no flickering anymore ; )
<EriC^^> nice :D
<lotuspsychje> laterz guys
<lotuspsychje> tnx 4 help EriC^^
<immu> where i can get torrent file for ubuntu 17.10 daily image?
<EriC^^> !dailyimage
<EriC^^> !daily
<ubot5> Daily builds of the CD images of the current development version of Ubuntu are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<EriC^^> immu: ^
<immu> yeah but downloads are slow
<immu> i am getting 100K
<EriC^^> dang
<immu> can i download 17.06 and then upgrade
<immu> to 17.10
<immu> or move to
<nacc> immu: you mean 17.04?
<immu> yeah
<EriC^^> immu: yeah sure
<EriC^^> you can always upgrade it using -d before it comes out or upgrade as usual when it comes out
<nacc> immu: ... yes?
<nacc> immu: are you asking if you can upgrade a version of ubuntu to the next one?
<immu> how about now
<immu> like i get 17.04 and then immediately upgrade to 17.10
<nacc> immu: EriC^^ just said you can use -d before it comes out
<immu> let me get 17.04 then
<immu> getting 1.80Mb speeds on torrents
<daftykins> that's... pants
<Bashing-om> !backup
<ubot5> There are many ways to back your system up. Here's a few: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DuplicityBackupHowto , https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MondoMindi - See also !sbackup and !cloning
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-15
<oerheks_> grinn, Ben64, comfy desktop on the server
<Ben64> can't help people who don't want it Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<oerheks_> .. or better, run a steam game over x2go/vnc over ssh
<Ben64> he doesn't even want to run games, just game servers
<oerheks_> ah right, a gamebot
 * oerheks_ drops it like it is hot
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> edited bug #1704409
<ubot5> bug 1704409 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Flickering screen on ubuntu 16.04.2 Lenovo B70" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1704409
<lotuspsychje> and solved
<ducasse> morning all
<lordievader> Good morning
<oerheks_> :-)
<lordievader> Hey oerheks_, how are you doing?
<oerheks_> done shopping for food, i am alright now
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<oerheks_> heya BluesKaj
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj - all well?
<BluesKaj> Hi oerheks_, ducasse , some insomnia, but I'll have a nap later, and you ducasse?
<BluesKaj> and you oerheks_,?
<ducasse> all quiet, getting ready to make some lunch soon
 * BluesKaj goes for another coffee
<immu> good afternoon gentlemen
<immu> gentlemens :)
<BluesKaj> Hi immu you were right the first time
<oerheks_> insomnia, yeah, lately
<ducasse> same here, all the light i guess
<immu> meaning BluesKaj :) i added a S
<BluesKaj> men is already plural . man is singular
<immu> yeah
<BluesKaj> unless of course it was a joke or some such
<immu> kind offf
<BluesKaj> pk, my mistake ;-)
<oerheks_> ... girls
<BluesKaj> kinda grumpy here, not enough sleep
<oerheks_> behave, mark might be reading here too
<oerheks_> :-P
<immu> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/07/ubuntu-automatically-switch-sound-bluetooth
<BluesKaj> bluetooth speakers are battery kijjers ...a pita
<BluesKaj> killers even
<BluesKaj> I guess they'll last if they're not played too loud
<immu> if you got bluetooth speakers its nice to see the Os switch to it automatically, you use it or don't its upto you
<BluesKaj> my friend's JBL BT speaker sounded great, but he compained about the battery needing recharging quite often
<immu> always buy with DC power. if you don't want stuff dying on you
<ducasse> the whole point with bt is no wires, if you need dc power just buy wired stuff
<BluesKaj> the bass response was quite amazing from such a small enclosure. We were away from any power source so it needed the battery..lithium ion I think
<immu> mine idea is a bluetooth speaker powered by DC , at some corner in the room and you can njoy the music, video or any audio while working at your desk :)
<BluesKaj> I'm an old audio guy so my pc is connected to a fairly large audio system and TV. I've had a simiiar audio setup since the early 70's
<BluesKaj> no computer of course, but TV audio thru a hifi audio system was very new then and required a simple line level connection from the audio preamp ion the TV to a hifi amplifier
<BluesKaj> mono sound , but it was FM quality
<ducasse> 'dopest'?
<ducasse> lol
<immu> oldschool
<BluesKaj> dopest'???
<immu> dope tech for newer stuff and dopest might be for older stuff
<ducasse> then what am i? he sounds like a kid to me.
<oerheks_> 4 weeks to go to see abraham
<immu> who? BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> nevermind immu, i don't know what dopest means
<ducasse> i just thought it sounded silly :)
<BluesKaj> I suppose it might if I knew what it meant
<immu> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Dopest BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> that word isn't found in my dictionary :-)
<andy19888> hello / Hallo
<immu> hi BluesKaj ducasse lordievader ???? hi
<ducasse> greetings and salutations, EriC^^ - enjoying summer?
<EriC^^> ducasse: greetings, yup it's pretty hot though, how about you?
<ducasse> about 25Â°C here, i think? dunno, but it's not unpleasant yet :)
<EriC^^> nice 25'c is perfect
<EriC^^> which country are you from again?
<ducasse> norway, so 25c is pretty hot for here
<immu> 25 should be best temp for s*x
<immu> ducasse, temp in AE are hovering at around 43 degree C
<immu> any comments? ducasse EriC^^ ?
<ducasse> good thing they have a ski slope, then. /s
<immu> EriC^^, where are you from?
<EriC^^> lebanon
<EriC^^> you?
<immu> are you lebnany?
<EriC^^> yeah
<immu> i am from UAE/AE, currently resident
<EriC^^> which country?
<immu> India/Indian
<immu> IND
<EriC^^> you mean you're from india originally, residingin the uae now?
<EriC^^> or the opposite?
<immu> from India residing in UAE
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> which country in the uae?
<immu> dubai
<EriC^^> ah nice
<immu> whats your realname EriC^^ you can PM me :)
<EriC^^> i was born in the us
<EriC^^> my parents are lebanese though
<EriC^^> raised here since i was 5-6years old
<EriC^^> there are 400+ users in #ubuntu-unregged
<EriC^^> i guess those are people who have their irc clients like irc cloud and such autojoin
<EriC^^> and they're not on their accounts right now
<ducasse> there's always a *ton* of people in #ubuntu who never seem to follow the channel anyway
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> we used to joke that most of the users are bots
<EriC^^> 1/3 are confirmed, i guess the rest in the channel 1/2 aren't on the pc but the irc client is properly configured
<BluesKaj> heh, autojoin is still enabled, but the users don't realize it
<BluesKaj> runs in the taskbar on windows so they don't notice
<BluesKaj> like skype
<ducasse> in general, users aren't well-known for their technical insight ;)
<BluesKaj> I had to use a hack to get rid of unwanted skype on wife's pc since it's enabled by default at boot and was clearly using needed resources.
<BluesKaj> wifes pc has W7
<ducasse> seems obvious to me that things like skype should definitely not be running unless you tell it to, and disabling should be doable with a single click
<BluesKaj> ducasse, skype in now a default enabled app on windows, which runs ready to be launched but using resources for no reason
<BluesKaj> bloatware
<BluesKaj> anyway we defeated it by removing it from windows update then uninbstalling from add removr programs
<BluesKaj> we use the update the hosts file method and so far it's working, if anyone is interested, https://superuser.com/questions/730791/prevent-a-windows-update-from-ever-installing
<BluesKaj> also it was preventing wife's pc from shutting down, some kind of bug
<immu> Updates from Windows should not be blocked
<BluesKaj> it only blocks skype from being reinstalled, she had a windows update yesterday, and she's been skype free for over a week'
<immu> why block skype?
<BluesKaj> we don't use it
<BluesKaj> and it's buggy
<immu> no its not, i use it. on Windows, iphone, android.
<BluesKaj> well it is here
<immu> whats the issue?
<immu> i am using it on Windows10 but i don't like the newer version, i like the classic one .
<BluesKaj> I'm not advising you to remove it, I'm merely relating our experience with it
<immu> but yes the new update on mobile platform is confusing , they should have kept it simple but they are trying to imitate snapchat and instagram all in one
<immu> i am also relating my experience :) isn't it.
<BluesKaj> ducasse, skype in now a default enabled app on windows, which runs ready to be launched but using resources for no reason, and preventing wife's pc from shutting down
<BluesKaj> oops immu^
<BluesKaj> I posted that earleir
<immu> its ok
<immu> i am not so of a stiff person
<BluesKaj> i didn't mean to highlight du-casse nick tho
<immu> but you can always keep apps from auto starting at boot time
<immu> its your PC afterall
<BluesKaj> it's done , not worried about it anymore
<immu> don't you use skype to keep in touch with your family?
<BluesKaj> she didn't want it on her pc, she asked me to get rid of it so I did
<immu> i rest my case then :)
<BluesKaj> my family doesn't use skype, we use google talk if needed but we mostly use the phone
<BluesKaj> we all use voip phones , so there are no worries about long distance charges
<immu> oke
<immu> brb rebooting into windows to perform maintenance and updates
<immu> i am back on Windows, did i commit blasphemy here ? :)
<immu> hey BluesKaj ducasse hi :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-16
<Bashing-om> oerheks_: Ya got your eyes open ?
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey EriC^^ :) sorry was in the shower... now i'm off to get some groceries...  bbl.
<EriC^^> pauljw: no worries :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-09
<jgk> has anyone got an update on ubuntu 18.10
<oerheks> jgk, join #ubuntu+1 for next release
<daftykins> like what? it's releasing in october
<jgk> any information on what they are planing new designs or just security updates
<daftykins> non-LTS do not just have security updates no
<jgk> any new features
<oerheks> they have up2date info, https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/05/18/desktop-plans-for-18-10
<oerheks> !cosmic
<ubot5> Ubuntu 18.10 (Cosmic Cuttlefish) will be the 29th release of Ubuntu.  Release annoucement at https://markshuttleworth.com/archives/1521
<jgk> thanks
<daftykins> guess that's someones homework done? ;)
<oerheks> yeah .. got paid in donut-holes
<daftykins> xD
<guiverc> sorry [[again]] tomreyn - overtyping you again
<tomreyn> guiverc: nah thats fine
<tomreyn> i'm only slightly motivated to help him ;)
<tomreyn> and your questions are fine
<guiverc> :)  not got yer crystal ball ??
<guiverc> (or ability to read his/her mind)
<daftykins> :>
<tomreyn> its in the laundry
<guiverc> well done tomreyn - you fixed something :)
<tomreyn> something or soemthing else.
<tomreyn> poor lefty
<tomreyn> i'd help you, but i just cant type right now since i keep laughing so much.
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> sounds like i'm missing an amusing one :>
<tomreyn> two
<tomreyn> mtdms was asking how to install php5 yesterday. i pointed him to sury's PPA. maybe it was too complicated, though. he's now back with effectively the same question.
<leftyfb> tomreyn: never suggest php5 :)
<leftyfb> I wouldn't suggest 12.04 either guiverc
<guiverc> i thought the pay-to-use (ESM) would scare people to upgrade to a supported version
<leftyfb> If they have an application that is critical to get going and only works on php5, I'd suggest running 14.04 in a container with only that application in it. Until the application is upgraded to php7 or replaced of course
<leftyfb> guiverc: people aren't smart enough to worry about it being supported and will just install 12.04 because someone told them it comes with php5
<leftyfb> while the entire time they had no business worrying about php5 to begin with
<guiverc> okay - i'd have suggested 14.04 but didn't see php5 available in any supported release (outside 12.04esm)
<leftyfb> 14.04 has php5 by default
<leftyfb> I have some ancient software running on it in containers
<tomreyn> i also pointed out that 14.04 has php5, and that it is supported for <1y
<tomreyn> just like today, they could not really explain why php7 was not an option
<leftyfb> misunderstanding
<leftyfb> as usualy
<leftyfb> usual*
<leftyfb> ok, that's my queue to go to bed :)
<leftyfb> cyas
<guiverc> yeah users are a dumb lot  (i talk from experience; I'm one of em); I missed your 14.04 php5 ref (was busy looking at packages.ubuntu.. & still missed it..)
<guiverc> night leftyfb
<guiverc> & thanks  leftyfb
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning, folks
<lotuspsychje_> hey lordievader ducasse
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lordievader> Morning lotuspsychje_
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all good here, thanks, and you?
<lordievader> Doing ok here
<lordievader> How are you lotuspsychje_ ?
<ducasse> busy day ahead?
<lotuspsychje> all good here lordievader you?
<lordievader> Have to review a bunch of papers, so yes -.-
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<oerheks> hi bl
<oerheks> {tab}
<oerheks> BluesKaj :-D
<BluesKaj> hi oerheks :-)
<lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, got your message, btw
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> main back in sleep :p
<BluesKaj> odd, #ubuntu seems to have no activity at all
<lotuspsychje> maybe its the weather too
<lotuspsychje> sunny= everyone out
<lotuspsychje> only a few fools sit on irc lol
<BluesKaj> it's too early to sit outside here, still only 13C
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> freshy breakfast nice
<lotuspsychje> bbl lunch here
<oerheks> wait, we have a troll
<BluesKaj> yup, seems he talks about his pc as if all th elements and HW is installed then not
<oerheks> fixing own issues, demanding a guest to change his name
<BluesKaj> not dealing with him anymore
<oerheks> well, lets try preventing to do damage to others
<daftykins> aww, do we have to?
<daftykins> morning all \o
<BluesKaj> 'Morning daftykins
<BluesKaj> this hans guy has enough skills to make his IP as unreachable so he's probly just playing games here to amuse himself
<daftykins> nah usually it's just a sign of an ISP that blocks traceroute on some level
<BluesKaj> daftykins, I tried both traceroute and https://www.ip-tracker.org/locator/ip-lookup.php
<BluesKaj> usually one of those will show a result
<daftykins> meh :)
<oerheks> he is drunk, or on drugs
<leftyfb> City          TÃ¸nsberg
<leftyfb>           Country         Norway
<leftyfb>            State          Vestfold
<leftyfb> Is that what you're looking for?
<oerheks> i am looking for that amdgpu deb :-D
<daftykins> long live nvidia!
 * daftykins ducks
 * oerheks sharks
<daftykins> eep
<BluesKaj> leftyfb, what did you use to get his IP?
<BluesKaj> or you used your ubuntu membership to look more deeply into this guy...I get it
<daftykins> hehe
<leftyfb> BluesKaj: whois
<leftyfb>  [hans_] (~hans@ti0016a400-1365.bb.online.no): realname
<leftyfb> * [hans_] #ubuntu
<leftyfb> * [hans_] rajaniemi.freenode.net :Helsinki, FI, EU
<leftyfb> * [hans_] is using a secure connection
<leftyfb> * [hans_] is logged in as Hans_Henrik
<leftyfb> * [hans_] End of WHOIS list.
<leftyfb> then do a 'host ti0016a400-1365.bb.online.no'
<leftyfb> then I have a script that uses ip-adress.com to lookup geo location
<BluesKaj> oops my mistake ...had the wrong hans when I whoised
<BluesKaj> this the one I got  [Whois] Hans is ~woodstock@blackbird.headcrashers.org (Don "Elvis" Woodstock)
<BluesKaj> hate those underscores on nicks
<oerheks> sudo apt install amdgpu
<oerheks> :-D
<BluesKaj> leftyfb, https://www.ip-tracker.org/locator/ip-lookup.php?ip=ti0016a400-1365.bb.online.no
<BluesKaj> I use that tracker because it's fast and seems accurate ...use it to test my vpn IPs etc
<BluesKaj> altho it has java problems with it's map now and then
 * BluesKaj has to learn to use its instead of it's when it's possesive :-)
<blackflow> though you can't really trust the geoip database. it's best effort with no guarantees on validity
<BluesKaj> blackflow, like I said, "seems accurate" , but it hasn't led me into dangerous waters yet
<blackflow> I guess it depends. in my experience, it's more wrong than correct.
<daftykins> it's really funny when websites try to geoIP us here on the island
<daftykins> "hey, check out these things from <place_x>" uh yeah nobody says that :>
<BluesKaj> depends? i haven't been steered wrong when comparing the results of that tracker with traceroute ...trust is a relative term, depending one's experience and opinion
<lotuspsychje> hey guiver_d
<blackflow> BluesKaj: I guess it has more to do about the region. More "important" one could be more accurate. For all the lookups I did, they were mostly wrong.
<BluesKaj> blackflow, how did you know they were wrong?
<blackflow> because I knew the physical location of those IPs that I checked.
<blackflow> and other sources. For example, Tele2, when their entered our market (Croatia), it took them a year or two before their IPs stopped locating to Sweden. I know that because they're one of my backup providers.
<blackflow> *they
<blackflow> I can only expect accuracy to reduce as we deplete IPv4 and subnets get sold and fragmented.
<blackflow> which reminds me, I have to reactivate the tor exit node blockage on our firewalls...
<BluesKaj> seems isolated to your part of the world blackflow, haven't had the same experience here in Canadaat all
<blackflow> possible. I mean, our branch of T-Com won't even consider residential IPv6 yet, so yeah...
<tomreyn> :-/
<tomreyn> no residential ipv6 still? that's way too late.
<tomreyn> ipv4 IS depleted.
<daftykins> saw a piece claiming adoption is at <20% still
<blackflow> the worse part was I asked them if they had any plans about ipv6, and they said they had none.
<daftykins> and is even showing signs of levelling off
<tomreyn> well have plans when they check their balances / calculations. although telecoms are the beasts, got the most ipv4
<tomreyn> at&t still got WAY too many
<blackflow> IoT is the way out of the ipv4 shackles. as bad as IoT is otherwise.
<tomreyn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assigned_/8_IPv4_address_blocks#List_of_assigned_/8_blocks
<tomreyn> yes, that'll be the first and last time that iot actually does good
<daftykins> i wonder if afrinic is still in turmoil
<tomreyn> still a RIPE colony
<tomreyn> but shhhh
<blackflow> lol
<blackflow> APNIC has no moar ipv4, and I hear AFRINIC is  heh.... ripe with unused ipv4 blocks :)
<blackflow> fun times anyway. some people will get fired, if they haven't already. eg, those who decided by themselves that 1.1.1.1 is a good _testing_ range despite it NOT being RFC 1918.
<blackflow> and yesterday I found out 128.0.0.0/8 was being used like that too
<daftykins> yeah but the afrinic folks just dumped their 'leader' due to sexual harrassment drama
<tomreyn> there are also those who think RFC1918 reserves all of 192.0.0.0/8 and 172.16.0.0/8
<tomreyn> there are also those who think RFC1918 reserves all of 192.0.0.0/8 and 172.0.0.0/8
<tomreyn> well, same thing
<lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> hello
<daftykins> \o
<lotuspsychje> fresh from the press: https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/07/09/minimal-ubuntu-released
 * lotuspsychje gonna buy an umbrella for protecting things fall out the heavy clouds
<daftykins> >:D
<lotuspsychje> lucky for me its minimal :p
<tomreyn> not as fresh from the press: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1779827 - still relevant, though.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1779827 in linux (Ubuntu) "failure to boot with linux-image-4.15.0-24-generic" [Critical,In progress]
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: related to that hwe guy from today?
<tomreyn> yes
<lotuspsychje> ppf said was better to downgrade to .23
<tomreyn> the link was posted in #ubuntu-kernel arlier today
<lotuspsychje> aha
<tomreyn> apparently you need to downgrade or install haveged, but i haven't finished reading, yet
<lotuspsychje> really looking forward to .1 now
<lotuspsychje> alot of stuff will get solved
<lotuspsychje> they better be ready for our unity guys :p
<tomreyn> :)
<tomreyn> it's unfortunate that this kernel went into 18.04 proper. with 16.04 and hwe-edge it's ok to break, i guess, but not the latest lts default kernel.
<daftykins> >8\/
<tomreyn> it doesn't always happen, though, so it's not so easy to test for,
<pragmaticenigma> bad weeknd for me... primary system had the /var partition go bye-bye ... :-(
<tomreyn> :-/
<tomreyn> wb, though. how did this happen?
<daftykins> you might say it dropped a 'log'
<pragmaticenigma> not sure... I use my machine as a media server... I was playing back videos on it all evening the night before... when I woke up the next morning the drive and quick working and /var was completely empty. Reboot no longer works, as /var is needed to boot and won't mount or be recognized in bios
<daftykins> yee-ouch
<daftykins> mechanical disk gone bye bye?
<tomreyn> pragmaticenigma: is /var on a different disk than the rest, though? if it's just another partition then bios wouldn't matter there.
<daftykins> think it was just the wording, sounds like it's the disk that's no longer seen at all
<pragmaticenigma> Yes, /var was a separate physical disk. so /home /root /opt /etc are all recoverable
<tomreyn> and if your /var is on the same disk as other partitions you depend on then you should definitely check its concistency (start with 'smart' data) before the rest gets to fall apart as well.
<tomreyn> oh ok
<pragmaticenigma> coincidentally. I was preparing to back up the system in preparation for 18.04.01 to upgrade from the current 16.04.01 on that machine... If only I had been a little further along
<daftykins> :<
<daftykins> pragmaticenigma: i swapped over some hardware on Friday in a clients server and saw the onboard NIC wasn't supported under 14.04, so i just did a clean 18.04 install right then :D
<pragmaticenigma> I have a new drive for the system... upgrade from the now broken 2TB to a brand new 4TB
<pragmaticenigma> now the fun of deciding how to partition it
<tomreyn> consider raid-1 (now or next time) if you have enough sata ports, this can save the headache of having to restore backups (which always happens at the wrong time).
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: wich brand failed?
<daftykins> they all fail :D
<tomreyn> :) sooner or later, for sure
<pragmaticenigma> irrelevant... I have no idea how long I even had that drive... at least more than 5 years
<lotuspsychje> ghoti: welcome, i think we have a channels trigger somewhere
<lotuspsychje> !channels
<ubot5> A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see !alis - See also !Guidelines
<ghoti> lotuspsychje: thanks.
<lotuspsychje> anyone knows the trigger for the ubuntu channels?
<daftykins> !irc
<ubot5> A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see !alis - See also !Guidelines
<tomreyn> !botabuse :-P
<ghoti> Ah, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList would seem to be the channel list, but it's not clear whether this is in sync with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/Scope .
<tomreyn> if you wanted to learn about #ubuntu-ops, reading the guidelines would have sufficed.
<ghoti> tomreyn: thanks, but that wasn't my goal.
<ghoti> ... I'm looking for a recommendation, and perhaps some discussion of the relative merits, of window managers for use in digital signage.
<lotuspsychje> ghoti: software reccomends fit also in discuss
<lotuspsychje> or offtopic
<tomreyn> ghoti: digital signage, signing what how?
<ghoti> offtopic scares me a little, with the "touchy subjects" list on the Guidelines page. :)
<daftykins> tomreyn: screens in shop windows, for example
<daftykins> why have a WM at all? you just need a program starting with X :>
<ghoti> Signage, as in a big screen TV, or four of them in a video wall configuration, alternating between rendered HTML and videos in mplayer.
<tomreyn> daftykins: :-P
<ghoti> (not necessarily mplayer, but that's what I've used before.)
<tomreyn> oh, you were serious
<tomreyn> i was thinking crypto
<ghoti> understandible, if that's closer to your focus. :)
<daftykins> tomreyn: would i lie to you? ;)
<tomreyn> most likely not!
<ghoti> At any rate .. I've found that twm seems to prompt for window placement even if I use `-geometry`; I wonder whether a tiling wm would make sense, as it would be more likely not to assume I want mouse interaction, but I've only used spectrwm.
<ghoti> Other recommendations I see are for fluxbox, blackbox, openbox, but I'm hoping someone might be able to lend me a little perspective before I go on my own time-conusming journey.
<daftykins> surprised there isn't an off the shelf solution yet given the number of folk i see talking about signage setups
<daftykins> only ever see it done badly such as at my local supermarket with a huge update prompt coming up from a Windows taskbar xD
<tomreyn> i've never done this, so can't really recommend anything. other than ensuring you have a nyancat screensaver,
<daftykins> :D
<tomreyn> if i was going to build a new solution nowadays, i'd probably look into whether this can already be achieved with wayland first of all. then realize its too early for that, and fall back to X, spend 6 hours searching the web, try 5 different solutions, and find that all of them suck one or the other way.
<daftykins> YOLD!
 * daftykins hides
<tomreyn> that's just a guess, though.
<tomreyn> oh look, mr. worth-a-shuttle got you covered https://www.ubuntu.com/internet-of-things/digital-signage
<tomreyn> actually i did somehting like digital signage years ago. ended up spawning just a web browser in full screen mode and controlling the web pages it shows with a frameset and meta refresh. there are probably better way to do this nowadays (websockets or something).
<tomreyn> https://xibo.org.uk/ is an open source system, but they discontinued the ubuntu players
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: The current leading FOSS digital signage project still does that from what I last saw a year ago... simple is the best approach
<tomreyn> pragmaticenigma: which one is that?
<pragmaticenigma> I think it's this one... I lost the link with the harddrive crash
<pragmaticenigma> http://www.binaryemotions.com/digital-signage/raspberry-digital-signage/
<pragmaticenigma> the screen shots look familiar, but I don't remember it being donation ware
<tomreyn> it says GPL on the bottom of theis page.
<ghoti> daftykins: there's an off-the-shelf solution geared towards raspberry pi called "screenly" which is built on raspbian with uzbl as the browser. But that won't work for me for a variety of reasons...
<tomreyn> http://www.binaryemotions.com/wp-content/uploads/rds-admin.png looks a bit old and incomplete.
<pauljw> hi everyone
<hispeed_m> someone here :)
<hispeed_m> hellooo
<lotuspsychje> hispeed_m: whats going on?
<hispeed_m> drinking a beer and get a emby .pfx certificate to work
<hispeed_m> made with beer :D ^^ and in your house what's up?
<hispeed_m> benelux :D? you're still in at soccer championship
<lotuspsychje> hispeed_m: this channel is for ubuntu discuss, perhaps you might find more glory in #ubuntu-offtopic ?
<hispeed_m> wooops yes :D i joined both, sorry :D
<lotuspsychje> from silent main to active support today
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: ??
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: this morning was pretty dead
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: now its rolling :p
<lotuspsychje> !uwn
<ubot5> The Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter may be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter
<lotuspsychje> new episode is out
<lotuspsychje> have a read guys
<lotuspsychje> tnx to the uwn guys
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: only rolling because as one gets help, more believe they can get help too?
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: hmm yeah good idea, or..timezones switch :p
<lotuspsychje> think its also weather related and release related
<pragmaticenigma> release?
<lotuspsychje> like bionic release, more support needed for example
<pragmaticenigma> yeah, but that release was a couple months ago
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: what do you think of 18.04.1 and xenial lts upgrades? big storm or not?
<pragmaticenigma> minimal... those who were patient enough to wait will be in good standing
<pragmaticenigma> ioria is a champ... I couldn't do that level of hand holding
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> im done too
<lotuspsychje> too much is too much
<lotuspsychje> and i dislike dualboots anyway
<pragmaticenigma> as do I... I use separate drives, and use the bios to switch which drive boots
<pragmaticenigma> I install all OS's without the other drives connected... then when done, connect all drives, set which one is default if I miss the bios prompt
<lotuspsychje> im too oldskool, want 1 Os on 1 machine
<pragmaticenigma> I havne't done a dual boot in a very long time... I've been perfectly happy using VMs inside a host
<Trident_Barclay> I managed (mainly with the help of ubuntu room) to get dual boot ubuntu with windows 10 at last
<ducasse> !yay
<ubot5> Glad you made it! :-)
<Trident_Barclay> :D
<Trident_Barclay> Windows 10 and my bios made it hard
<Trident_Barclay> but we got there
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-10
<jwm> I'm not new to linux, but I'm not very technically adept.  I'm looking to make an Epson v39 scanner work with my Ununtu 18.04 system.  Can anyone help?  USB recognition is the first hurdle.
<tsimonq2> jwm: Maybe try #ubuntu instead.
<jwm> tsimonq2: thanks.  I have a request out there.  It's more of a linux than GUI question.
<oerheks> http://support.epson.net/linux/en/iscan_c.html drivers in deb and rpm
<oerheks> it is a bundle, AFAIK
<jwm> oerheks: thanks, I've been there.  I made an error in asking a support question here, though I am thankful for people's polite helpfulness
<oerheks> download the debs, cd ~/Downloads, sudo dpkg -i *deb
<oerheks> replug the scanner, voila
<jwm> I'll give it another go and report back
<jwm> the debs are not normal debs, it's a *.tar.gz package that I've already installed.  no luck
<oerheks> click on it, fileroller will open, and select 'extract'
<oerheks> tar.gz is a compressed file
<jwm> indeed, I understand.  I have extracted and installed.  It just hasn't solved the problem
<jwm> I understand this is not a support channel.  Any ubuntu discussions?
<jwm> ?
<tomreyn> <oerheks> stupid miners that want it all for free, go learn a program language first
<tomreyn> i couldnt agree more
<tomreyn> you noticed this was about a man in the middle attack?
<tomreyn> geez, so many of the ubottu factoids are outdated...
<tomreyn> gnome: 	<reply> GNOME was the default desktop environment on Ubuntu up to 10.10. To install the GNOME Shell, type [ sudo apt-get install gnome-shell ] in a !terminal. For the GNOME-based !flavor of Ubuntu, see !ubuntu-gnome
<oerheks> tomreyn, hacjing a miner, probably
<tomreyn> oerheks: maybe. the code was for loading a JS miner into a website, but then it also had a reference to injecting additional html / script code.
<tomreyn> i didnt read it thoroughly though
<tomreyn> way too many people are taught that money is the only thing which really matters. it's entirely understandable though if you grow up in poverty.
<oerheks> millionairs know poverty too
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> fear of losing money is higly harmfull
<tomreyn> yes, it causes it.
<oerheks> .. and no, i am ugly rich but not a millionaire
<tomreyn> :) congrats.
<tomreyn> i'm probably lower middle class, in a rich country.
<oerheks> a warm house, montly income and clean water from the tap
 * oerheks is waiting for the bike to come out of the paintshop
<tomreyn> having everything you need covered, and no need to think about how to make it through the month is indeed a luxury.
<tomreyn> (and one that i can enjoy)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<oerheks> oh, we do have our worries, but they are insignificant
<oerheks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hy oerheks
<oerheks> oh ugly... https://www.neowin.net/news/ubuntu-bug-allows-anyone-with-physical-access-to-bypass-your-lock-screen
<oerheks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1777415
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1777415 in unity (Ubuntu) "Local authorization bypass by using suspend mode" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tomreyn> my system is safe from this, lightdm just freezes when i wake it up.
<lordievader> Good morning
<lordievader> My (Ubuntu) system is safe from this too, it doesn't have a lock-screen.
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> morning lordievader - all good here, thanks. how about you?
<lordievader> Doing good here. Moving some data to the new drive ð
<ducasse> ooh - new drive? what kind?
<lordievader> 4TB WD blue.
<lordievader> Normally I take Reds, but this one was a lot cheaper. And the blues that I have in my system run nicely.
<ducasse> i usually stick to wd reds myself, blue is the desktop model, right?
<EriC^> morning
<oerheks> i have 2 blue ones, aren't they for audio/video recorders?
<oerheks> that is where i get them from, setup-top-boxes
<oerheks> hi EriC^
<EriC^> hi oerheks
<EriC^> o/
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^ lordievader ducasse
<EriC^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> im formatting customers alienware to bionic
<lordievader> ð
<ducasse> oerheks: seems that is purple
<lotuspsychje> morning tomreyn
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<oerheks> hello beautifull
<ducasse> \o EriC^
<oerheks> oh, what do i do with them, 2x 320 + 500 ..
<EriC^> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> what a cr4p box ton disasemble that alienware jeez
<lotuspsychje> grafix card is attached to a whole metal square and behind that sits hd
<oerheks> oh, so alienware is hard to format to bionic?
<lotuspsychje> no, it was pretty fast
<lotuspsychje> just first boot is longggg due to new welcome screen lagging
<lotuspsychje> needed to check hd first for data recovery
<lotuspsychje> but 1TB empty lol
<lotuspsychje> and the guy doesnt know what happened
<lotuspsychje> weird story
<ducasse> "i have no idea what happened" = "i screwed it up"
<lotuspsychje> https://imgur.com/a/PM2bwdl
<lotuspsychje> probably ducasse :p
<tomreyn> hi lotuspsychje, sorry, missed the highlight
<tomreyn> EriC^: can you (later, when you're done there) explain what happened there with qwebirc's HP system? i'm not sure i understand it, yet.
<EriC^> me neither tbh, i was thinking the grub.cfg in the esp was wrong and not pointing to the right fs
<EriC^> cause echo $root gave the esp files, but the grub.cfg there is right so beats me :D
<EriC^> maybe his actual ../boot/grub.cfg was borked?
<tomreyn> it seemed to me like grub saw different storages than the running ubuntu?
<EriC^> yeah i dunno about all that hdd magic :D
<tomreyn> grub saw two storages, the first one having a single partition
<tomreyn> msdos partition table onthe first, gpt on the second storage
<EriC^> yup *shrug*
<tomreyn> so this uefi seems to be doing something naughty to hide this internal usb storage they have there.
<EriC^> yeah what's the relevance of it though
<EriC^> it's a hybrid hdd/sdd stuff?
<EriC^> see the $root is gpt1 right now which is the esp
<EriC^> it's supposed to be set to gpt as per http://termbin.com/jpt4
<EriC^> maybe some other efi file is being booted? hmm
<tomreyn> i dont think i can follow
<tomreyn> just ignore me for now ;)
<oerheks> maybe fastboot is not disabled?
<EriC^> nope it's loading some efi file and grub
<EriC^> and even setting prefix to... oddly enough gpt1/EFI/ubuntu
<tomreyn> cold it be one of those integreated linux live boot systems, like some desktop shipped with for a while? i forgot the product names...
<EriC^> no idea
<EriC^> now it wont boot anymore xD
<EriC^> curious one this one :D
<tomreyn> indeed, an interesting puzzle they made up there for us at HP.
<tomreyn> this is the kind of thing i was thinking of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashtop_OS - but thaT's actually unlikely, i forgot this fashion is a couple years ago by now, and mr. qwebirc's HP isnot that old.
<EriC^> i wonder what's on that msdos one now
<tomreyn> probably an assortment of the best hp pc utilities you could think of!
<EriC^> :D
<EriC^> hp usually doesnt play nice with linux uefi
<EriC^> im wondering how it's even letting the efi file boot
<EriC^> usually you just get windows loading after installing ubuntu with uefi
<tomreyn> due to the whitelist you mean? i think they stoped this practice since, but not sure whether that was before this model.
<tomreyn> looks like the msdos partitioned storage has vanished, wtf
<EriC^> yup
<EriC^> my 2 hp's do this, one 2013 one 2017
<tomreyn> oh 2017, so maybe they didnt stop that practice
<lotuspsychje> ive seen also hidden bios settings to block the install of new Os (besides fastboot & secureboot) on some boxes
<lotuspsychje> not sure whats the setting called again
<lotuspsychje> seen that on a medion desktop once
<EriC^> hmm this is an odd one
<EriC^> it's booting the grub file fairly certainly cause we pointed it to it, so why wouldnt it load it right
<tomreyn> maybe have them prepare a usb stick with several grub configurations, one of which might work to boot ubuntu, to at least get them to boot consistently for now.
<EriC^> but then the grub entries $root is right, but it shows up completely skewed
<EriC^> maybe it's getting changed in /boot/grub/grub.cfg ? that's the only thing i can come up with
<tomreyn> this /etc/default/grub misses a lot?
<EriC^> yup
<EriC^> i think it's not related to grub.cfg at all though, cause we're using it later and it's just loading fine *durp*
<EriC^> so uefi > grub entry > efi/grub/shimx64.efi + grub.cfg with good $root -----> getting cli + bad $root and $prefix with $root/efi/ubuntu
<tomreyn> ok, but i have no idea how this would happen.
<EriC^> me neither
<EriC^> it's one for TJ- this one
<tomreyn> yes, he's left his post, though
<EriC^> yeah, he comes by less often these days
<tomreyn> so how to make it work next time? just purge /boot/efi/efi/grub ? symlink wont work on fat
<EriC^^> hmm i dunno if it's some fault, grub-install is supposed to install to efi/ubuntu but it wasn't for sure reason
<EriC^^> *for some
<EriC^^> and i think it expects that dir to look for the $root stuff so it was getting confused when it didnt find it and just using the esp as $root
<EriC^^> grub-install is supposed to add an "ubuntu" entry to the uefi list and put the files in efi/ubuntu
<EriC^^> let's see his last efibootmgr if it had added it
<EriC^^> nope, just the "grub" entry pointing to efi/grub
<tomreyn> i don't have a "grub" directory in  /boot/efi/EFI/ here, but i'm on 16.04.
<EriC^^> hmm i just tested by creating a efi/grub dir without ubuntu and grub-install to see if that would throw it off but no it creates an efi/ubuntu dir
<EriC^^> i was thinking maybe he had installed mint or something that made the efi/grub and thats what caused the issue
<tomreyn> that was my guess, too
<tomreyn> i need to head out for a bit, bbl
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - all well?
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse, yes, fine here, and you?
<ducasse> all good, thanks. is it hot in canada today?
<BluesKaj> not yet, but it's going up to 29C this aft
<BluesKaj> warm enough
<BluesKaj> very hot out west, up to 33 on the prairies
<lordievader> Phew way too much.
<ducasse> just one or two degrees more than we had here last week
<BluesKaj> yeah we had a week of 33-34 last week, it was too much
<ducasse> it's been a while since i last wanted so much to tell a user to eff off and get help elsewhere
<BluesKaj> desperatation
<BluesKaj> desperation even :-)
<BluesKaj> mint works ok , just not my cuppa tea
<lordievader> #ubuntu drama again?
<ducasse> lordievader: just some idiot whining and cursing because we don't support mint or kali
<lordievader> Let me guess... because it is based on Ubuntu?
<ducasse> he just said "thanks for f***ing b***h support" and started asking about something else
<ducasse> at which point i basically ignored him
<lordievader> Yeah, some  people are just not worth it.
<ducasse> no, that attitude entitles you to all the support you can get from google, imo
<lordievader> Indeed.
<BluesKaj> google doesn't discriminate, you either enter the correct question or not , it doesn't matter to the bots
<ducasse> and it doesn't mind you swearing at it :)
<BluesKaj> yeah
<BluesKaj> ever tried Solus OS ducasse?
<ducasse> no, it's an ubuntu derivative, right?
<BluesKaj> no it's a non-derivative OS
<BluesKaj> afaik
<ducasse> oh, ok. i've just seen a couple of people asking about it in #ubuntu
<BluesKaj> rolling release I beive and the default DE is budgie
<BluesKaj> believe
<BluesKaj> developing KDE for it as we speak
<BluesKaj> sounds interesting to me ...deve'd from the gound up
<BluesKaj> https://www.distrowatch.com/index.php?distribution=solus&release=all&month=all&year=all
<ducasse> got to go to the store, bbl
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj Mr_0 pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> alo
<lotuspsychje> returned bug today on my desktop: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1780986
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1780986 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Boot stuck at ubuntu logo gnome display manager" [Undecided,New]
<lotuspsychje> welcome MysticReverie
<MysticReverie> Hi Lotus
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: still happy with your new ubuntu install?
<MysticReverie> Very much.  It's so aethetically pleasing just to look at
<lotuspsychje> screenshot?
<MysticReverie> I hjave my title bars on auto hide  top and bottom
<MysticReverie> and am using 'turkin spices'  wallpaper from ubuntu 18 wallpapers
<MysticReverie> but can give a screenshot if u like lol
<MysticReverie> turksh spices*  something like that
<lotuspsychje> im always curious for desktops
<MysticReverie> not sore how t odo a screenshot lol
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: screenshot program or prt scr button
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: heres mine: https://imgur.com/a/fVlVwBX
<MysticReverie> Nice colours !
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<MysticReverie> https://ibb.co/fEWXe8
<MysticReverie> mine doesnt have much.. if i move my mouse away fro mthe top, the top bar will auto hide.  an dthe bottom bar hide if there is a window near it
<lotuspsychje> nice anyway MysticReverie
<MysticReverie> thans
<MysticReverie> yea.. ubuntu always looked good, always has
<MysticReverie> you eve nchanged your termina lcolours
<MysticReverie> looks good
<lotuspsychje> i always use green on black MysticReverie also on hexchat
<MysticReverie> Oh i jus tleave it default
<MysticReverie> although i do sometimes, or often prefer brown or black backgrounds and grey text or something
<lotuspsychje> the matrix has me, for years
<MysticReverie> easier on the eye
<MysticReverie> the matrix?
<lotuspsychje> green on black= matrix style
<MysticReverie> oh
<MysticReverie> i like to make it look like relaxing paper if possible lol.   brown backgrouns and not sure what text colour
<MysticReverie> but, ubuntu generally seems to have a low conteast and relaxing look
<MysticReverie> plus its curves, just great
<MysticReverie> contrast *
<MysticReverie> i also use the night light feature to remov esome blue light during evening hours
<lotuspsychje> yep
<MysticReverie> only other os's ive seen with asimilar style is mac os and windows 7
<MysticReverie> but i think ubuntu may be better
<MysticReverie> looking
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: https://www.deviantart.com/lotuspsychje/gallery/
<MysticReverie> im not a very computer savcvy person so I can't say what os is 'better'   but for me ubuntu is probably the easiest to use linux, stable, fast, and look reallly good
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: linux desktops have always been much more original then other Os
<MysticReverie> These look great
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<MysticReverie> did you try the new style?  i forget what its called, but it was going to be release with ubuntu 18, but wanst ready, but yoy cna get it on beta.  Gives a different look.   I like the fonts etc, but im not keen on the higher contrast
<MysticReverie> So I just user pretty stadard ubuntu 18 scheme
<MysticReverie> works great
<MysticReverie> sorry, my typing needs more attention
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: you mean the community theme?
<MysticReverie> Thats it yes
<MysticReverie> looks great, but contrast to high for me
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: there's a snap for it communitheme
<MysticReverie> yea, i tried it
<MysticReverie> somehow lol
<lotuspsychje> lol
<MysticReverie> Definately nice
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: perhaps follow up cosmic support
<MysticReverie> but eh black titlebars in the windows seem a but intense compared to this one
<MysticReverie> Cosmic support ?
<lotuspsychje> !cosmic
<ubot5> Ubuntu 18.10 (Cosmic Cuttlefish) will be the 29th release of Ubuntu.  Release annoucement at https://markshuttleworth.com/archives/1521
<MysticReverie> oh
<MysticReverie> will this be automatically installed over my 18.04?
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: no, 18.04 is LTS
<MysticReverie> ok
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: lts always follows LTS
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: only if you choose yourself you can upgrade to a next newer version
<MysticReverie> Ok, thanks
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: this i also follow: https://www.deviantart.com/customization/screenshots/nix/newest/
<MysticReverie> Will you be upgrading ?
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: no, i always stick to LTS and contribute with bugs
<MysticReverie> Oh , you really are a desktop connoisseur lol
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: well, its all a learning experience, who can say he knows it all?
<MysticReverie> Some people dont care what thier desktop looks like as long as its fucntional. Me personally I love a comfortable desktop. Aesthetically pleasing
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: thats the magic of this ubuntu community, users help each other as one 'whole'
<MysticReverie> Indeed. To be honest I'm not a big fan of learning terminal. But after getting a few thing sset up, I dont need to use it much.
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: GUI can be done alot these days for sure
<MysticReverie> Yea, I have little technical support to offer lol, just my feedback of what I like
<lotuspsychje> i always liked linux eyecandy myself
<MysticReverie> Ubuntu eyuecandy yes
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: contribute can be more easy then you think, like filing a bug from your system, also help the community
<MysticReverie> But som other distros look like terminal windows with a task bar and pixelated icons lol
<MysticReverie> hmm, true
<MysticReverie> II'm sure the other distros are great for people who use them - just depends what you like
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: or like the new system info tool, that gathers ubuntu info to help overall
<MysticReverie> Ubuntu is the most popular linux I think ?
<MysticReverie> Followed by Mint I guess
<lotuspsychje> well hard to say exactly worldwide of course, but we do have articles with all machines running ubuntu..and their alot
<MysticReverie> Mint was pretty muc has functional as Ubuntu for me , I just didnt like the aesthetic as much
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: https://blog.ubuntu.com/2016/04/07/ubuntu-is-everywhere?utm_source=omgubuntu
<lotuspsychje> thats from a while ago, so might have increased alot since
<MysticReverie> Not sure I expected those high numbers
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> impressive right
<MysticReverie> I thin kso
<MysticReverie> Also, what I find impresseive is it seems to run pretty much as quickly from a USB as puppylinux does.
<MysticReverie> Even a full Ubuntu usb os
<MysticReverie> runs well
<MysticReverie> But I have it in my SSD now anyway - Dual boot with Win10
<lotuspsychje> so nice this: https://www.wikihow.com/Category:Ubuntu
<MysticReverie> Fantastic resource
<MysticReverie> No I have Ubuntu comfortable running, I'm mor ewilling t odig around - at my leisure to improve my knowledge and experience. Everything is working , so I can just relax and read about stuff when the fancy takes me.
<MysticReverie> Sorry, I must improve my typing
<lotuspsychje> MysticReverie: good base to live on
<MysticReverie> Hmm
<MysticReverie> Back in a bit, Bye for now ;)
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys belgium-france tonight!
<leftyfb> Is this "new install goes right to GRUB recovery" a big problem right now or are we just getting the same person asking the same question for days now?
<daftykins> lol
<pauljw> hi everyone
<Jonta> pauljw: Hi
<pauljw> hi Jonta
<EriC^^> evening all
<EriC^^> tomreyn: wow another guy with grub issues today same problem it seems
<EriC^^> his /boot/efi http://termbin.com/db4ue
<EriC^^> efi/grub is populated but efi/ubuntu just has the fwupdate tool
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: We just had a huge grub update .. related ?
<EriC^^> maybe, i dunno
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Me neither .. we have seen a rash of grub breakage in the forum this day also .
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> just 18.04?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Lemme check if only 18.04.
<oerheks> only fiefox today, on 17.10....
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Yep .. most of them are 18.04 ... I installed the grub updates ( ubuntu and xubuntu as well as x18.10 ) with no issues here .
<oerheks> how odd people comming back without registering
<daftykins> laziness abound :)
<EriC^^> odd, both the guys had an almost empty /etc/default/grub
<Bashing-om> A quick look and effected grub appears to be UEFI related on the forum .
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-11
<tomreyn> hmm, that's a miracle about those uefi issues...
<tomreyn> meanwhile i'm looking into a reproducible kernel panic on 18.04 (only one user, though, with a specific workload and old hardware)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<sonicwind> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey sonicwind all good on your side?
<sonicwind> yup yup
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<oerheks> hello beautifull
<ducasse> hi gorgeous
<lordievader> ð
<ducasse> hi lordievader - how are you doing?
<lordievader> Doing good here
<blackflow> Anyone using chromium snap? It doesn't work. The window opens, but is black, no controls.
<lordievader> blackflow: What happens when you start it from a terminal?
<blackflow> lordievader: opengl errors it seems
<lordievader> What is the output of `sudo lspci -k`?
<blackflow> lordievader: what do you really want to know, I'm not a noob :)
<lordievader> The output.
<blackflow> my gpu is working fine, nvidia proprietary driver, I even game on this machine, vulkan in wine'd steam included.
<lordievader> Which modules are all loaded for your nvidia gpu?
<blackflow> lordievader:  "Kernel modules: nvidiafb, nouveau, nvidia_drm, nvidia"
<lordievader> You should blacklist nouveau, they are likely fighting over the hardware. The nvidia driver install should blacklist it, but this sometimes fails.
<blackflow> nouvau is not loaded by the kernel
<lordievader> You just said it was?
<blackflow> it's not mentioned by lsmod. the output above is lspci -k
<blackflow> this is what the kernel lists: https://dpaste.de/SRux
<lordievader> That is strange. lspci -k should show the kernel modules which are loaded for the hardware.
<blackflow> nah, just which _might_ be loaded. that's why I asked, what you _really_ wanted to know :)
<lordievader> That is all output of `lsmod`, or is it filtered?
<blackflow> neway, the gpu is working fine. non-snap'd chromium is working fine. snap'd one (and one version newer) does not. I suspec the opengl interface orwhatsitcalled for snaps.
<blackflow> lordievader: that's grep nvidia.   no "nouvau" in teh output
<blackflow> *nouveau
<lordievader> Right. Yeah. That does point towards snaps. It might be that they have wrong libraries or something. Don't know much about snaps, but I thought it had embedded libraries or something.
<HEX0> I'm thinking of buying an old thinkpad with core 2 duo T9900 @ 3GHz with 8GB RAM and SSD. Do you think that CPU is still decent enough for browsing the bloated web and watching 1080p video? or is it gonna be a lagfest?
<blackflow> or the permission to use the nvidia /dev(ices). I don't know the details, but installing the snap at some point started listing interfaces activated, opengl was one of them, and that's why I think it's broken
<lordievader> blackflow: Are snap applications run under a different user?
<blackflow> which is why i was wondering if anyone was using the chromium snap. these things should, in theory, working or being broken, equally evereywhere.
<lordievader> HEX0: I don't think it will make you happy.
<blackflow> lordievader: no, I even started it from the CLI to see teh output (and saw opengl failures)
<HEX0> lordievader: not even at 3GHz? I figured  the clock is pretty high even for a laptop from 2009
<blackflow> HEX0: the cpumark is important. lemmesee.... 2127 according to cpubenchmark.net. You're good.
<lordievader> HEX0: I was running a similar set up for a while (desktop though). It worked. But I preferred my laptop with an i5.
<HEX0> no DE, just tiling wm and firefox without lag is all I need. I'm ok with long compiles
<blackflow> HEX0: I'd say, from personal experience, it starts to become annoyance and lagfest at less than 1000 cpumark @ cpubenchmark.net
<HEX0> blackflow: ok thanks for input :)
<lordievader> If you are okay with slower start up times... you can buy it. But I'd save my money and buy something more worthwhile.
<blackflow> lowest I ran was ~800, which incidentally was a relatiely modern cpu (2013 celeron, with AESNI of all things) and it was slooooow
<HEX0> libreboot+SSD so boot times should be fine :) cpu is the thing I was most concerned with
<blackflow> HEX0: which vm btw? i3?
<HEX0> blackflow: sway
<blackflow> that's teh compositor, no?
<lordievader> The processing power also plays a part at startup. (Was more talking about applications startup, though)
<HEX0> my current laptop from 2013 with an old 30GB ssd boots crazy fast. Startup finished in 2.900s (firmware) + 156ms (loader) + 2.070s (kernel) + 3.208s (userspace) = 8.336s
<HEX0> graphical.target reached after 3.208s in userspace
<HEX0> blackflow: sway is i3 clone but wayland. so yeah it's tiling wayland compositor
<blackflow> HEX0: oh it's a full wm? I thought it was just a compositor
<HEX0> blackflow: https://github.com/swaywm/sway
<blackflow> HEX0: yeah I know the thing but I always thought it was just a wayland compositor.
<HEX0> it's pretty much full implementation/clone of i3
<HEX0> well still work in progress :)
<lotuspsychje> alot of qwebirc's lately
<EriC^> !zesty
<ubot5> Ubuntu 17.04 (Zesty Zapus) was the 26th release of Ubuntu. Support ended on January 13th, 2018. See !eol and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2018-January/000228.html
<lotuspsychje> HEX0: i still use an amd3200+ with 2 gig ram on bionic, running great
<lotuspsychje> it all depends how picky you are
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> !info apt xenial
<ubot5> apt (source: apt): commandline package manager. In component main, is important. Version 1.2.27 (xenial), package size 1035 kB, installed size 3319 kB
<lordievader>  > it all depends how picky you are
<lordievader> This is very true.
<lotuspsychje> :p
<MysticReverie> sudo apt-get footballs' coming home  !
<MysticReverie> I'm learning terminal a bit
<Woodsoup> hi
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> 'football' is definitely not an APT function :>
<EriC^^> howdy
<oerheks> aai am so /clear
<blackflow> I guess it's not coming home after all :)
<Woodsoup> :(
<Woodsoup> England had a good tournament.  Cant complain
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-12
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Early bird gets the worm .. what worm are you chasing ?
<lotuspsychje> mosquito again
<Bashing-om> OH, case of what chases you :P
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> think im gonna make a trap soon
<lotuspsychje> same beast chasing me day after day
<lotuspsychje> was reading about a bottle & cane sugar
<tomreyn> just rub yourself with hiney, best trap!
<tomreyn> *hOney
<lotuspsychje> lol tomreyn
<Bashing-om> All the kin folk take turns .. giving you the run-a-round .
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: you sure i wouldnt be a honeypot for wasps then aswell lol
<tomreyn> gee dependencies
<tomreyn> can get complex quickly
<lotuspsychje> :p
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: Nother use for a flow chart .. huh ?
<lotuspsychje> those african mosquito's are even worst, they sit on a tree till you sleep, then stab tru thick clothes
<tomreyn> Bashing-om: umm, no thanks, no flow charts for me, i'm on holidays. and without mosquitos.
<tomreyn> well, mostly, just the cute ones.
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: We got Arkansas Ridge runner variety of mosquitos ... -- they can stand flat footed and drink from a quart fruit jar .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i can stand much...but those bloody..
<tomreyn> call buffy
<lotuspsychje> haha
<tomreyn> so this person got an amd computer this time since last time they messed up when they had an intel. ,akes sense.
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> aha few updates ubuntu base, gdm..i wonder if its about my bug
<tomreyn> what's your bug?
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1780986
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1780986 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Boot stuck at ubuntu logo gnome display manager" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<lotuspsychje> happened a second time now
<tomreyn> you got an update there 12 minutes ago
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> ill test in few hours
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: its weird, did not happened multiple boots, then re-occured suddenly
<lotuspsychje> perhaps i will await till it happens again, and try #4 if it does
<tomreyn> hmm, 18.04 is still pretty bug ridden i'd say
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> i really hope .1 gonna straight out alot
<lotuspsychje> or the xenial upgraders will have the shock of their lifes
<lotuspsychje> isnt there like a current list of bugfixes somewhere yet?
<lotuspsychje> or only at release?
<tomreyn> i dont think a big box of patches will land in .1 all at once at release time.
<lotuspsychje> howso?
<tomreyn> well patches are already going into 18.04.0
<lotuspsychje> didnt see too much updates comming yet
<tomreyn> i.e. if you ar eon 18.04, those patches which will be available in .1 you probably alread yhave
<lotuspsychje> right
<tomreyn> i.e. if it's still pretty broken now, it probably will be in .1, too ;)
<tomreyn> there's not a lot fo time left
<lotuspsychje> you have a few days of for support tomreyn lol?
<tomreyn> :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om doesnt believe me storm is comming :p
<lotuspsychje> i know alotttt of xenial users out there
<tomreyn> i might even upgrade to 18.04 form 16.04, too, now, since i got got my own share of issues here, now.
<lotuspsychje> and also the ubuntu-gnome guys, i forgot about
<tomreyn> i guess a lot fo people already followed the "how you can upgrade early to 18.04 (and get yourself into a big mess)' articles.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> the hardcore gang perhaps
<tomreyn> but then the major ity probbaly didnt, right
<lotuspsychje> im curious :p
<lotuspsychje> xenial runs out in 2021 right
<tomreyn> yes
<lotuspsychje> so they have some time to fix things, if things go real bad
<lotuspsychje> i hear they have some room for new gnome devs now
<lotuspsychje> they gonna need it lol
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: #ubuntu-news got rss feeds now, did you notice?
<lotuspsychje> feel free to hop in
<tomreyn> some room? like this? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Kriseninterventionsraum.jpeg
<tomreyn> oh wait, thats googl
<tomreyn> no, i didnt even know there is this channel
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2018/07/09/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-535/
<lotuspsychje> uwn is revived
<lotuspsychje> tnx 2 the news crew
<tomreyn> apparently bashing -om spends much time on this. this can be nice to have.
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> some cool news facts
<tomreyn> weekly is a bit too much for me, i'd prefer it less often and just the few really important things, like new major bugs reported.
<lotuspsychje> its a lot of work indeed
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: https://www.gnome.org/foundation/careers/
<oerheks> https://news.ycombinator.com/ helps a lot
<tomreyn> even more to read ;)
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: so you're saying these positions are paid by canonical?
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: not sure anymore where i found the original article
<tomreyn> no need to look it up ;)
<tomreyn> that'd be nice if so
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: I can hunt it up .. seems Gnome how has funds for 4 paid management positions :) Open call !
<tomreyn> Bashing-om: lotuspsychje posted the link above
<tomreyn> i mean the one where gnome seeks staff
<tomreyn> oh, you say *management*
<tomreyn> sorry, missed that
<tomreyn> and: no, thanks ;)
<lotuspsychje> list for canonical is bit bigger wow https://www.canonical.com/careers/all-vacancies
<lotuspsychje> ah found it duh https://www.gnome.org/news/2018/07/gnome-foundation-opens-recruitment-for-further-expansion/
<tomreyn> "anonymous donor"
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> erm, my bank number is:...
<tomreyn> well this could also have been redhat
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> or some john doe user
<lotuspsychje> oerheks you wanna tell us something?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: the original: https://www.gnome.org/news/2018/07/gnome-foundation-opens-recruitment-for-further-expansion/  .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: just found it too :p
<lotuspsychje> but tnx anyway
<tomreyn> :)
<tomreyn> that's "up to" 125k USD per person, per year.
<oerheks> can i bring my own dog?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<tomreyn> sure, as long as you "eat your own dog food"
<lotuspsychje> they have a little yard available
<tomreyn> some of those are actualy home based
<lotuspsychje> some good stuff here https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install-the-latest-amd-radeon-drivers-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
<tomreyn> oibaf + padoka are nice if you want the latest.
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> hey guiverc_d
<guiverc_d> howdy lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<EriC^^> hey all
<MysticReverie> hi eric
<MysticReverie> hows it going
<EriC^^> hi MysticReverie , good thanks you?
<MysticReverie> Not bad thanks..  bit tired lol
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<EriC^^> morning
<blackflow> moan-ingu!
<lotuspsychje> hey blackflow
 * lotuspsychje slides a cuppa coffee to blackflow 
<blackflow> ooh, danke. I've got a large cup of my morning frappucino 'ere tho'
<MysticReverie> im going to have a virtual box in ubuntu, windows 10,  for useing softwarew that im familiar with.  But i will not have it ocnnecting ot he internet at all.  sounds a good way to avcoid the snooping but still use the software
<MysticReverie> connecting to the *
<lotuspsychje> wich software?
<MysticReverie> corel painshop pro
<MysticReverie> i like ot use it for HDR photo splitting
<MysticReverie> ther eare other softwares available, but i find paintshopoeasy gui
<lotuspsychje> gimp? krita?
<MysticReverie> easy gui, with good results
<oerheks> darktable
<blackflow> omg corel paint shop still exists?
<MysticReverie> im unfamiliar,and not even sure if they deal well with single RAW photo t osplit it into three for HDR processing
<MysticReverie> i tried darktable, but the interface is a but complax for my mind lol
<lotuspsychje> photo editing= complex
<oerheks> it is huge indeed
<MysticReverie> painshop is grea tfor good results and simple gui imo
<lotuspsychje> or else use pinta lol
<MysticReverie> well yea, but its not with painshop lol
<MysticReverie> even i can do hdr processing, and thats saying something
<blackflow> corel paintshop was awesome, last version I used was part of Corel Suite 8 or something like that. It had powerful scripting capabilities, I even made a game in it.
<MysticReverie> wow lol..  i have no idea about that.  i just love its easy to use system with really good results.  that fits me perfectly lol
<blackflow> MysticReverie: I discovered it (the scripting feature) when I had to process tens of thousands of images in the same way.
<MysticReverie> blackflow, im not evensure what cripting is really, sorry
<MysticReverie> strange name tho 'paintshop'  yet it is a photo editor
<blackflow> MysticReverie: it has a basic-like language where you can program it to do stuff
<blackflow> BASIC -like
<MysticReverie> liek commodore 64?  lol
<blackflow> more like visual basic
<MysticReverie> 10 ?"Ok"
<MysticReverie> 20 goto 10
<MysticReverie> thats about my limit
<blackflow> sans the line numbers, but something like that
<MysticReverie> hmm
<lotuspsychje> lol
<blackflow> anyway, all of its functions were exposed through the API so it was very powerful for batch processing
<MysticReverie> for this virutal box,  how much ram should i allocate?
<MysticReverie> if ok to ask here
<MysticReverie> i have 8 gb ram on this laptop
<blackflow> at least 4G
<MysticReverie> ok ,thanks
<MysticReverie> i guess over 4g may make ubuntu lag tho
<MysticReverie> 4 sounds good
<MysticReverie> also, after i install windows in the virtual system, can i delete the iso , or i need to leave it on system to work?
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
<lordievader> ð
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> all fine here, chill on irc a bit
<lordievader> ð
<BluesKaj> lordievader, ð
<lordievader> Hmm, I'm missing that character.
<lotuspsychje> âª
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, I can't find yours either
<BluesKaj> the other thumbs up
<lotuspsychje> Â®
<lotuspsychje> hexchat/window/overview characters
<BluesKaj> looking in misc symbols and pictographs on this character set
<BluesKaj> i don't use hexchat
<BluesKaj> I tried it for a while and it was ok , but I guess I tend to be loyal to kde apps :-)
<oerheks> ð±ð»ðð´ððºð°ð¹
<blackflow> freenode should really step into 21st century and offer shadow banning.
<BluesKaj> ð¾ð´ðð·ð´ðºð!
<leftyfb> blackflow: they were just asking how to configure the DNS server in bionic basically. "<zprd> I need it to resolve local addresses, and use the local dns server, ie use the hosts onw as the xenial does"
<blackflow> leftyfb: the confusing part is "local" where. container or host.
<leftyfb> not really
<leftyfb> local as in the DNS server in his local network
<blackflow> did they say that?
<leftyfb> "<zprd> I need it to resolve local addresses, and use the local dns server, ie use the hosts onw as the xenial does"
<blackflow> they should really be specific about the meaning of "local".
<blackflow> for example, there could be a farm of containers with a specific subnet on a bridge on that host, being the "local" network
<daftykins> might just mean hostnames -> IPs
<blackflow> which is totally not unusual setup. and a host-based DNS resolver is servicing them for container names on that bridge vlan
<blackflow> but that is completely different from "local" being the public IP subnet outside of the phsyical machine, aka the LAN
<leftyfb> you're overthinking it :)
<blackflow> leftyfb: maybe :)
<blackflow> that distinction (of what "local" really is), is important in my line of work, so I guess it's just deformation professionelle
<blackflow> (esp. when setting up NAT and firewall rules, which IPs can query which for what)
<blackflow> see, all these sub-conditions "I must this or that".... means we still don't understand their use case :)
<leftyfb> no, same issue, only he wants it automated
<EriC^^> evening all
<Bashing-om> hey EriC^^ --- our world os saved :P
<EriC^^> hey Bashing-om :P
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Thus far no EFI boot issues ,, a new nicro-code update fix them ?
<EriC^^> *shrug*
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: 2 ...Just a thought .
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-13
<JimBuntu> tomreyn, --> "Hey, can anyone hold my hand though what will likely take many hours?"
<oerheks> oerheks, now give the wiki to do that in tty, pronto
<JimBuntu> I admit, I might be mean at time, but sometimes it seems the questions are beyond what should reasonably be asked
<oerheks> no, we call that helpfull
<oerheks> uh oh...
<JimBuntu> someone has taken the request and shoot, even illicited a response from guiverc. I no longer feel mean.
<tomreyn> :)
<tomreyn> go aelsilmaredh go
<oerheks> lets wait and see
<tomreyn> he keep explaining the live cd approach, doesnt he
<JimBuntu> Well, I give aelsilmaredh credit for trying, but given the person wants to do it in real-time, without a live-boot... I can't watch this.
<tomreyn> uh oh, windows user.
<JimBuntu> literally rofl
<JimBuntu> Train... I would like to introduce you to Mr. Wreck.
<JimBuntu> my backup drive is empty... cause I like to backup... ?
<JimBuntu> Ok, I'm done being so immature. Back to the regularly scheduled show.
<tomreyn> they're actually not the average windows user, though, got a good understanding of partitions vs. file systems.
<oerheks> i just walked the dog .. amzing to return
<tomreyn> did you expect not to?
<tomreyn> or do you mean the progress they're making?
<oerheks> the progress is amazing indeed, i wonder what will be next, reinstall or ..
<lordievader> Good morning
<oerheks> heya lordievader
<lordievader> Hey oerheks How are you doing?
<oerheks> enjoying support :-)
<oerheks> i am fine, thanks and how are you?
<lordievader> Doing good here
<lordievader> Waking up'
<MysticReverie> How to add a sign off message on hexchat?  i noticed some people seem to have one
<guiverc> MysticReverie: hexchat (client) allows me to set quit, leave & away messages (prefs -> chat general)
<MysticReverie> thanks
<MysticReverie> sounds fun
<MysticReverie> jesus that kden live ui is not good
<MysticReverie> cant even open a video clip
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<MysticReverie> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey MysticReverie
<MysticReverie> Hows you
<lotuspsychje> all good here tnx
<lotuspsychje> bout you?
<MysticReverie> same  thanks
<MysticReverie> troubleshooting lol
<lotuspsychje> shooting what?
<MysticReverie> kdenlive editor
<MysticReverie> cant use the basics yet lol
<MysticReverie> cant seem to get the vidoe preview biger, or the timeline area smaller.  a waste of real estate
<MysticReverie> and when i try to 'cut' selected areas, nothing happens
<MysticReverie> just the usual stuff for me... bungling along
<MysticReverie> this si why i sometime sfind it hard not using windows.  the software on linux can be too difficult and less choice
<lotuspsychje> you cant generalize that
<lotuspsychje> tons of nice software on linux
<oerheks> who knows what huge task is going on, with that cut actions..
<MysticReverie> just my exeprience personally
<oerheks> and depends on what format
<MysticReverie> yea, but not the selection on windows, and what ive tried is ofte nhard to use for me personally
<oerheks> i think you used a closed format, or prop one
<MysticReverie> maybe..  it snot looking very polished
<MysticReverie> but i did download form software center ?
<oerheks> "not looking very polished"  oh a good theme would help?
<MysticReverie> if its makes it easier to understan and rezise windows, definately
<MysticReverie> iv ehad to install a viruta lmachine just for photo and video editing.
<MysticReverie> but if i cna figure out one or two linux alternatives, maybe i dont need it
<MysticReverie> trying now
<lordievader> Kdenlive does get a lot of praise of being one of the better video  editors under Linux.
<MysticReverie> yea. it must be good. i cna see many good reviews
<MysticReverie> i just need to get used to the interface,
<MysticReverie> i liek basic stuff lol
<oerheks> video edditing depends on good hardware, basicly
<lotuspsychje> +1
<MysticReverie> i just want to cut/edit and save t omkv or mp4 format. nothing fancy
<oerheks> oh those formats require a lot of recoding, first unpack, then edit, and then again packaging...
<lotuspsychje> !info pitivi
<MysticReverie> i dont under stand those scissors icon, surely for cutting?  but  i select a part with the scissors, right click and select cut and nothing happens
<ubot5> pitivi (source: pitivi): non-linear audio/video editor using GStreamer. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.99-3 (bionic), package size 3115 kB, installed size 8863 kB
<lotuspsychje> nothing fancy ^
<MysticReverie> thanks.  i will have a look
<ducasse> good morning
<MysticReverie> Morning Ducasse
<ducasse> hi MysticReverie
<MysticReverie> i managed to get the kden to start rendering a file. i will check he output after.  maybe ok
<MysticReverie> by the way, is it true that vide oencoding is bad for ssd's ?
<lotuspsychje> no
<MysticReverie> to muc hoverwriting or something?
<MysticReverie> ok, good
<lotuspsychje> as what oerheks said, better hardware= better editing experience
<MysticReverie> ya
<lotuspsychje> and surely for the graphics card
<MysticReverie> i think i maybe able to use photo editer and video editor in linux, but the learning curve is a bit steeper
<MysticReverie> if i cna tho, i can delete my 20gb win10 vurtual box
<MysticReverie> i need the space as i dont want to waste 20gb in my sd
<MysticReverie> ssd*
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.23.25 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<lotuspsychje> whats the deal with .24 now? i still see alot of users using it?
<lotuspsychje> oh its ubottu is behind
<lotuspsychje> nvm
<tomreyn> always behind :-/
<tomreyn> didnt someone say something about a known bug with old intel gpu? i can't seem to find it on launchpad :-/
<tomreyn> nor on the logs here.
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<lotuspsychje> cant recall tomreyn
<tomreyn> thanks for trying. ;)
<lotuspsychje> what wa sit about tomreyn
<tomreyn> freezing at gdm startup
<lotuspsychje> that was my bug
<lotuspsychje> bug #1780986
<ubot5> bug 1780986 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Boot stuck at ubuntu logo gnome display manager" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780986
<lotuspsychje> happened 2 times recently
<lotuspsychje> my card is x800 ati
<tomreyn> looks different, thanks though
<lotuspsychje> kk
<tomreyn> vanvugt found it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1727356
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1727356 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Login screen never appears on early generation Intel GPUs (Core2 and Atom etc)" [High,Triaged]
<tomreyn> aka duflu
<MysticReverie> great
<MysticReverie> I got great results with kdenlive
<MysticReverie> same quality and file size as my program i was using before
<MysticReverie> another problem solved
<oerheks> yeah, we have solutions, and we look for a problem
<lotuspsychje> lol
<oerheks> ops, lotuspsychje is making fun of me
<lotuspsychje> haha
 * lotuspsychje looks pretty innocent
<jink> lotuspsychje: I highly doubt that.
<lotuspsychje> look who's talking
<jink> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<lotuspsychje> :p
<jink> :P
<lotuspsychje> im about to go get some frites
<jink> Vlaamse Frieten!
<jink> Top-idee.
<oerheks> slagroomsoesjes..
<jink> ^__^
<oerheks> man, i am hungry
<jink> Hahahahaha
<oerheks> yes, yes, lotuspsychje is innocent, and weird
<jink> I'll take your word for it.
<lotuspsychje> :p
<oerheks> i would not do that, but oke
<oerheks> you know who else is weird too?
 * lotuspsychje looks around him
<tomreyn> bugzie! bugzie! bugzie!
<oerheks> i don't know, just asking you guys
<lotuspsychje> https://radio2.be/sites/default/files/styles/1200x630/public/images/articles/steakpeper.jpg?itok=5qTAFpTE
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit!
<oerheks> njummie
<oerheks> i have schnitsel & cabbage & potatoes for tonight
<lotuspsychje> sounds nice oerheks
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: what time are we expected?
 * oerheks is looking for sponsors for my cargobike
<lotuspsychje> you want a sticker with lotuscomputers on it lol?
<oerheks> i asked the painter if he had any stickers, but he had none, nobody asks for that
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> better a nice shiny bike color
<oerheks> i wouldn't mind, if it was small
<lotuspsychje> oh.. i gtg frites!
<lotuspsychje> ttyl fellas
<oerheks> enjoy!
<blackflow> Warhammer 40k: Gladius, first turn based W40k, on Steam, native for Linux! HERE TAKE MY MONEY!
<oerheks> new macbook pro with silent keyboard ..
<oerheks> me! me!
<blackflow> oerheks: EEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW macbook.
<oerheks> i rather put my money in parts for my bike, though
<blackflow> I did that too :)
<oerheks> or new shoes :-D
<blackflow> but this month it's warhammer. next month new brake pads and chain for the MTB.
<oerheks> my list is about â¬140-160, excl fresh tires
<oerheks> so that would be â¬200, when i am done.
<blackflow> is that an MTB?
<oerheks> no, this black one > https://www.dropbox.com/s/jmdxyqo3197gvp6/2018ride.jpg?dl=0   will be > https://www.dropbox.com/s/fx3ev8a63hfl3i5/2018-painted-bike-1.jpg?dl=0
<oerheks> actualliy, this is my old one, i sold it and bought 2 other ones in return, now i fix them with fresh powdercoat, 1 manually and 1 with electro motor
<blackflow> ooh!
<oerheks> and enough room to put something in it like this https://shop.sherlock.bike/product/sherlock-bike/
<oerheks> 120 mm x 25 mm
<blackflow> oh interesting.
<oerheks> now with iOt, there are other solutions too
<oerheks> but this a pretty cheap solution, incl 2 year
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<oerheks> hello BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi oerheks
<oerheks> benevolente dictator stops ... https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-July/005664.html
<blackflow> yeah, he grew sick of it all
<oerheks> i tend to wait a minute before answering, they are fast finding it themselves
<oerheks> grinn
 * oerheks is bÃ¡d
<tomreyn> in case Wicardo (the person without working wireless) returns, please !irclogs | Wicardo
<oerheks> :-)
<BluesKaj> damn broadcom, my laptop has to use a non-default driver to work properly , otherwise the default driver keeps asking for my pw every few secs , and it won't register
<BluesKaj> err wouldn't register til I clean reinstalled the entire OS, then the default kernel source driver finally worked
<BluesKaj> on bionic
<BluesKaj> the devs obviously fixed the kernel source driver after my initial install
<blackflow> eww Broadcom.
<blackflow> if you can choose, go atheros wherever possible.
<BluesKaj> well, I always had pretty good luck with bcm on my previous laptops
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<blackflow> o/
<lotuspsychje> hey blackflow
<hggdh> mornings, afternoons, and evenings, as the case may be, to all
<lotuspsychje> hey there hggdh
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: cheers
<lotuspsychje> this might be a timezone cross zone indeed
<oerheks> happy fri the 13th
 * lotuspsychje throws a black cat around
<oerheks> what thy sends comes back at thy, times tree
<oerheks> smurf it
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> thats why i throwed it around, and not 'at' you
<oerheks> drabber is scared of cats
<oerheks> cats love him in the neighbourhood
<lotuspsychje> really
<oerheks> my neighbours have 2 cats, from their student-appartment, they never been outside, now they have a balcony... and drabber nextdoor
<lotuspsychje> uh oh :p
<oerheks> they usually sit between my flowers
<oerheks> hippie cats
<oerheks> and drabber is silly too
<oerheks> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7ry39fkkjol9hk/DrabberRuiktBloemetjes2014.JPG?dl=0
<lotuspsychje> lets c
 * oerheks goes out for a walk
<lotuspsychje> nice pic oerheks
<lotuspsychje> hey there pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks: ... before you run away... do remember a question a few days ago about MOTD on login?
<pragmaticenigma> hi lotus
<oerheks> oh, motd spam  ?
<pragmaticenigma> ya
<oerheks> that can easily be undone, it is in /etc/update-motd.d/50-motd-news
<oerheks> just -x
<pragmaticenigma> ah, so with the loss of execution it's dead... don't need to move it or rename it?
<pragmaticenigma> only thought is I would like to avoid system mail about a dead script
<oerheks> i know, the controversion, like amazon, but people should not be that scared, and not just rely on ubuntu to get your system safe.
<pragmaticenigma> The ads don't concern me... just don't care for them
<oerheks> it is the unwanted phone home issue
<oerheks> that is what they call it
 * oerheks is off
<pragmaticenigma> laterz oerheks
 * pragmaticenigma goes and turns off nearly all the motd stuff :-)
<lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj
<tomreyn> pragmaticenigma: in case you'll need it later: dmesg of TommyOne http://termbin.com/eik7  "BIOS 1.04C 04/27/2005"  - they're serious about not accepting obsolescence
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: I have machines predating that :-)
<tomreyn> sorry to hear this
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: though I was just surprised that we went from USB not supplying enough power to I'm going to modify the hardware to have dedicated power
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: Those old machines are mostly for research and tinkering... If they die, they go bye-bye
<oerheks> what would one expect from 10 years and older?
<oerheks> it is a fire hazard dangerous hobby
<tomreyn> indeed they're apparently a tinkerer. but i'm not sure whether or not it's their main computer. would be sad if so.
<tomreyn> i mean https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+3200%2B&id=54
<tomreyn> but maybe i'm just too well paid ;)
<lotuspsychje> mine still works like a charm
<lotuspsychje> you guys have no idea what ppl still use in belgium
<tomreyn> anstrad / schneider cpc?
<lotuspsychje> haha
<pragmaticenigma> My main rig I bought in 2015, so it's fresher than most
<lotuspsychje> tandy
<lotuspsychje> no i mean they all got smartphones & tablets, but their pc's are old as ages
<tomreyn> well if people dont consider pc's relevant anymore that's understandable. most use only mobile devices nowadays.
<oerheks> if it is no duo core, i leave pc's on the corner of the street
<oerheks> or HD i1080
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> we are ugly rich
<oerheks> kids get computers from the council if their parents are *poor*
<oerheks> laptops...
<pragmaticenigma> If all a person does is surf the web, watch you tube, and e-mail... what is the point of having a full on computer?
<tomreyn> does a modern web browser work on any of these old computers? :)
<pragmaticenigma> Chrome works on a surprising amount of older hardware
<pragmaticenigma> would anyone here have a suggestion on something that I can use to edit and create GTK themes? (specifically for GTK2)
<pragmaticenigma> trying to edit the text is near impossible, since so much of it is keywords and I have a feeling that what I'm looking for isn't explicately defined
<BluesKaj> chrome works on my 10yr old HP just fine
<BluesKaj> actually most apps do
<hggdh> BluesKaj: with a 10 year old OS?
<pragmaticenigma> Software ultimately doesn't care about the age of a machine... it's the user... software will run on just about anything... it may take a lot longer, but it will run
<pragmaticenigma> meantime.. thinking it's time to retire deluge and find a different app
<BluesKaj> hggdh, , nope, I'm running Kubunru Bionic on it ..it has some upgrades like 8g Ram, a nvidia gpu, and a m-audio soundcard
<BluesKaj> the m-audio card is 10yrs old though :-)
<BluesKaj> thanks for kicking that idiot hggdh
<BluesKaj> he still didn't get it
<oerheks> it is friday, weekend support, comb your chesthair ..
<BluesKaj> fri the 13th, my fav day and date
<hggdh> itis Friday 13th, the universal day for idiots
<BluesKaj> oops be caredful hggdh , you're calling me an idiot
<oerheks> it is a religion :-D
<BluesKaj> hggdh,^
 * BluesKaj was born on Fri the 13th
<hggdh> BluesKaj: no, I am not calling you an idiot :-)
<hggdh> and I apologise if it sounded like that
<BluesKaj> hggdh, I was kidding
<pragmaticenigma> As far as support... usually it's the I want something special, and I can't just use stuff the way it is
<hggdh> still, it was a good point
 * pragmaticenigma kind of what I'm doing with trying to figure out how to fix the progress bar in Deluge
<BluesKaj> i wasn't kidding about my birthdate tho
<pragmaticenigma> i'm not kidding either
<oerheks> i am half dead ( 50 )
<BluesKaj> heh, Ill be b75 on Aug 13th next
<leftyfb> hggdh: please keep an eye on takeme. It's a troll
<BluesKaj> i'm 3/4 dead :-)
<hggdh> leftyfb: k
<leftyfb> they're a pretty discrete troll. :)
<BluesKaj> takeme is registered/unaffiliated
<hggdh> sounds like, but I have to give them the chance
<hggdh> being registered makes life easier when dealing with trolls
<BluesKaj> yp
<shibumi> pragmaticenigma: so what do you mean with 'netplan' is a replacement?
<shibumi> replacement for what?
<pragmaticenigma> netplan is replacing ifupdown... it is still an abstraction layer, but more modular. It also handles the changes to the underlaying networking modules NetworkManger and systemd-networkd
<pragmaticenigma> intending to standardize the commands leaving the sysadmin with less customization to handle differences between the two
<shibumi> well ok if you see it like this you are right. Although I see no need for netplan. There is systemd-networkd. systemd-networkd files are in ini format.. and they are usable without netplan and you can use them easily together with networkmanager
<shibumi> I don't understand why ubuntu is doing that 'lonely wolf' move here again
<shibumi> it's the same with upstart, mir and any other canonical project in the past..
<pragmaticenigma> I think the goal of netplan is you can switch between the two underlaying network managers without having to rebuild all your configurations
<pragmaticenigma> And I agree, it's hlaf baked at this point and really needs some work and polish
<shibumi> pragmaticenigma: full ack. it's maybe a good thought, but I don't need networkmanager on servers
<shibumi> I mean one big advantage of all distributions going for systemd is that systemd makes the linux landscape uniform
<pragmaticenigma> true... but you would be able to use the desktop to get things setup, move your yaml files over to the server and wouldn't have make any adjustements (at least thats the theory)
<shibumi> sure for desktops and laptops it makes totally sense :D
<shibumi> but as I said for servers it's crap :D
<shibumi> because if you want to deploy a non uniform landscape out of debian, centos7, ubuntu, arch linux, fedora.. the only distribution that will fail is ubuntu because of netplan
<shibumi> and that sucks
<pragmaticenigma> servers are usually highly specialized, so I agree... it's silly to put a layer on top
<pragmaticenigma> I thought fedora was going netplan as well
<shibumi> yeah and nevertheless netplan is enabled on default on server images and connected to cloud-init
<shibumi> really? never heard of it in connection to fedora
<pragmaticenigma> I don't know if it's on their road map for common install, but I thought I saw references to it
<pragmaticenigma> I do see a number of discussions about it being added
<shibumi> mhhh it would make sense for fedora desktops
<pragmaticenigma> guess it's a wait and see
<shibumi> but for servers it just doesn't
<shibumi> (i am not a fan of networkmanager either) I use pure IWD + systemd-networkd for my laptop on arch linux
<daftykins> amusingly my 18.04 VPS with digitalocean makes use of netplan and cloud-init for IP provisioning, first time i tried to delete the packages i left my VPS with no network xD
<pragmaticenigma> I haven't cared for network manager, as it makes assumptions about the topology, and attempts to override values sent to it via DHCP
<daftykins> i'd always been one for purging all the automagic crap and statically addressing my server VMs in /etc/network/interfaces :)
<shibumi> daftykins: ugh Interfaces Files are so ugly :D
<shibumi> Did you ever setup vxlan interfaces via that file?
<shibumi> It's such a mess
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> why are you in here if you're a Linux ricer running arch?
<pragmaticenigma> maybe ready to jump ship after Arch had their stuff breached by the H@X0RZ
<leftyfb> you guys do realize he's the epitome of a troll right?
<pragmaticenigma> I don't judge others
<daftykins> actually i think all the points about netplan are very aligned with my own
<daftykins> ...opinions
<pragmaticenigma> also, I run CentOS on a number of systems
<daftykins> i'm in no other channels if there's any evidence elsewhere, though
<leftyfb> I was talking about in the main channel
<leftyfb> genii took care of him though
<BluesKaj> I ran stsatic IP for along time using th einterfaces file without NM, but since netplan it's been rlatively smooth sailing with NM along for the ride
<BluesKaj> scuse all the typos
<daftykins> genii's the man :) i'm gonna go hang out with him in Toronto later this year
<pragmaticenigma> I have no preference, as long as I can find documentation to help figure out how to do what I want to do, I'm a happy camper... not so happy about Deluge and it's mystical interpretations of the GTK Theme directives
<shibumi> daftykins: because of issues with ubuntu and netplan
<shibumi> daftykins: at work I do only ubuntu and CentOS
<BluesKaj> really daftykins, when are you visiting Toronto?
<daftykins> BluesKaj: yep! late September
<daftykins> come on down into the city :D
<BluesKaj> maybe I will , it's a5hr drive for me, but my daughter and some of my grandchildren live there so it would be nice to meet you guys as well.
<daftykins> excellent :D let me look up my booking
<BluesKaj> cool
<daftykins> there we go, Wednesday 26th p.m. to Friday 28th p.m. September
<daftykins> just a short stop before popping down to the US
<BluesKaj> right I'll mark that on my calendar
<BluesKaj> there used to be a linux cafe in Toronto, but I think it's out of business now
<daftykins> hrmm i wonder if he knows, he's right in the middle
<daftykins> might have to do the tourist thing and go up the CN tower :)
<daftykins> already paid my $7 CAD to be permitted entry to the country!
<BluesKaj> yes, he's mentioned it many times
<BluesKaj> the CN tower is a must
<EriC^^> evening all
<pragmaticenigma> wait, it costs money to go to Canada now?
<daftykins> same as it costs to go to the US
<daftykins> $14 USD for them :/
<daftykins> ESTA visa waiver for the US, and eTA for Canada
<BluesKaj> one has to pay for the customs ppl to look at your passport ...another govt scam
<pragmaticenigma> I never knew there was a fee for crossing between the US and Canada. The only time I crossed was a family vacation to Niagra falls, and I think I was 8 years old
<leftyfb> I was just in Niagara last summer and plan on going in a couple weeks. I've never had to pay anything to cross in either direction
<pragmaticenigma> I suppose, now that a passport is required to jump across the border, that would make sense... used to need only a drivers license when I went... I'm thinking it was sometime in the late 80's or very early 90's
<BluesKaj> was at Niagara a couple of weeks ago with my daughter , 25 buck cdn to park one's vehicle, but they have these little shuttle buses to take you to the falls a quarter mile away
<daftykins> oof
<MysticReverie> Trudeu gotta pay for all the immigrants he's welcoming in somehow lol
<Bashing-om> And me welcomes the weekend support .. ready or not .... here I come :P
<daftykins> welcome back :D
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Thanlee as per the ususal .. Good day in the neighborhood ?
<daftykins> yep gorgeous weather here and much relaxation was had with chilled drinks :D
<daftykins> all well in your corner of the world?
<Bashing-om> Well .. sad to have buried family pet dog - 14 years - cancer . We now have a different world here .
<daftykins> oh dear, sad time - freedom from suffering for him/her too, though i wager
<Bashing-om> She did not really complain until the final hours . Died in her mistres' arms, on her breast .....
<daftykins> d'aww
<pauljw> hi everyone
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-14
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> good morning all
<lotuspsychje> morning
<tomreyn> hi!
<tomreyn> so, if you dont mind a little poll: whom of you already uses wayland on a regular basis?
<tomreyn> i really like the idea of improving the overall desktop security, but i'm not yet sure how painful it would be.
<lotuspsychje> not me tomreyn 2 out of 3 boxes dont like wayland yet here
<tomreyn> because nvidia?
<lotuspsychje> my netbook and desktop both ati
<lotuspsychje> xorg is workable
<lotuspsychje> got a few bug on it also
<tomreyn> oh, and those old ati's don't workj with wayland at all? fglrx then?
<lotuspsychje> they work, but lagging like hell
<lotuspsychje> same machines on xenial are rocketfast
<lotuspsychje> so its not really the hardware
<tomreyn> hmm i see
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> morning
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: i think your idea, will grow once .1 is out perhaps, see if the masses wanna use wayland or not
<lotuspsychje> also cosmic will influence this right
<tomreyn> i dont think it will gain traction with 18.04.1, but as soon as ubuntu or some other large distro switches to it by default.
<lotuspsychje> hmm i dont think its ready yet for a default
<lotuspsychje> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_topic&q=Wayland
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<tomreyn> i agree, it is not. but it's getting closer. i'm just wondering whether people are using is as a default environment, yet., i think i will.
<tomreyn> or rather, i'll give it a try.
<ducasse> i tried, but got annoyed at stuff that didn't work and all the little things that were missing
<tomreyn> well, maybe it's a bit early still
<ducasse> i think so. another year or two, maybe...
<ducasse> i'm in no hurry, x11 serves me just fine
<MysticReverie> anyone do hrd editing on linux/?  im having problems finding an easy program
<MysticReverie> HDR*
<MysticReverie> oops, sorry, wrong room
<ducasse> tomreyn: on discussion in ##linux - have you considered trying a netconsole?
<tomreyn> ducasse: yes :)
<tomreyn> thanks
<ducasse> tomreyn: ok, then nvm me :)
<MysticReverie> only thing i use my virtual win10 now is for paintshop pro.
<MysticReverie> I wonde rwhy adobe dont release linux software. lightroom is similar to paintshop pro, but not available also
<tomreyn> ducasse: so http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/Cables/DS_USBNMC.pdf is probably going to work in case you, too, ever need something liek this.
<ducasse> good to know, thanks. it's been ages since i needed a serial cable, but it's nice to have in an emergency.
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<oerheks> heya BluesKaj :-)
<BluesKaj> hi oerheks
<blackflow> o/
<BluesKaj> \o
<BluesKaj> fogged in here, can hardly see what's across the street
<lotuspsychje> bbl belgium-england
<oerheks> Kijk live vanaf vandaag, 15:47
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<tomreyn> 220 mail.discuss.ubuntu.com ESMTP
<lotuspsychje> whats that tomreyn
<tomreyn> a silly nerd joke
<lotuspsychje> :p
<tomreyn> a fake SMTP header
<tomreyn> oops i mean s/header/banner/
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: there were a few intel guys that couldnt boot few recent days
<lotuspsychje> just noticed
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: yes, 18.04.0 is pretty borked
<lotuspsychje> that aint good
<tomreyn> but i guess that's not so different from past LTS releases ;)
<lotuspsychje> thats also true
<lotuspsychje> its our own fault :p
<tomreyn> you just don't install .0 if you want it stable.
<lotuspsychje> its our fate, to float around in bugs
<lotuspsychje> here we go blackflow
<tomreyn> http://nyanit.com/usn.ubuntu.com
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> having fun tomreyn
<tomreyn> <lotuspsychje> its our fate, to float around in bugs
<tomreyn> sure
<tomreyn> plenty of coffeeine causes this reaction here
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> nice find or own creation tomreyn
<tomreyn> not mine, no. it's oooold
<tomreyn> i should have given this url to the person who was using a website to get their monitor refresh rate yesterday.
<tomreyn> https://www.testufo.com/
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> im also having fun, browsing new ubuntu wiki's, sorted newest ontop
<lotuspsychje> curious what i run into
<lotuspsychje> !zoneminder
<lotuspsychje> !info zoneminder
<ubot5> Package zoneminder does not exist in bionic
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<lotuspsychje> !info zoneminder xenial
<ubot5> zoneminder (source: zoneminder): video camera security and surveillance solution. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.29.0+dfsg-1ubuntu2 (xenial), package size 1595 kB, installed size 14011 kB
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Ubuntu
<tomreyn> ja, das funktioniert ganz gut, ist eigentlich ne hÃ¤ufig eingesetzte software dafÃ¼r
<tomreyn> this, but in english
<lotuspsychje> :p
 * lotuspsychje gives tomreyn a fresh cold coktail to cool down
<tomreyn> yes, this works quite well.  it's actually a commonly used software for video surveillance (on linux)
<tomreyn> thanks. oh crap, it got coffeine!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i had something like this recently https://briosmartlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/DOTW-darkandstormy.png
<tomreyn> looks tasty
<lotuspsychje> yeah it surely was :p
<tomreyn> guess we lost jared :-/
<lotuspsychje> or perhaps he's doing the firmware upgrade too
<tomreyn> maybe, in case he found out how
<lotuspsychje> if its not blocked by bios, it would at least show unclaimed in ubuntu right
<tomreyn> yes, i'd say so. there's no indication of either the wireless nor the bluetooth device in dmesg, i think it IS blocked by the bios.
<lotuspsychje> perhaps he's reinstalling
<tomreyn> woah, i hope not
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: he's back
<tomreyn> thanks
<lotuspsychje> darekdeo: bionic gnome-software doesnt show updates anymore, came from 17.10
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys!
<tomreyn> sam here, need sleep. ttyl.
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-15
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<tomreyn> hello lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey there tomreyn
<tomreyn> looks like we were the last ones to be here, and are the first.
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: do you ever sleep lol?
<tomreyn> i wasn't around for a full 6 hours!
<lotuspsychje> yessss
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: you have europe timezone?
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: i have them all in /usr/share/zoneinfo/ ;-P
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<tomreyn> but, yes, i'm in germany
<lotuspsychje> ah shon
<tomreyn> most of the time, yes,
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> we need a new vpn factoid
<lotuspsychje> if someone comes around something let me know
<lotuspsychje> !vpn
<ubot5> For more information on vpn please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VPN
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<ducasse> good morning
<oerheks> hi there luna-owner
<JimBuntu> One does not "own" Luna... Luna owns humans
<oerheks> owned-by-luna, correct
<JimBuntu> :-) How are you doing oerheks ?
<oerheks> watching 3rd rock from the sun
<oerheks> it is going to be hot today \0/
<JimBuntu> We are predicted for 30C with 100% humidity (rain) on and off
<oerheks> wind turned, now we get used air from Germany
<JimBuntu> ew, lol
<oerheks> i like the drums in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBjQ9tuuTJQ
<JimBuntu> Given the lead singer, founder was a drummer, I'm not surprised they have a percussion focus
<JimBuntu> "Blessed are the keepers of the beat"
<oerheks> some intros make the song
<oerheks> and surely this is one of them ( for me that is)
<JimBuntu> A favorite of mine, it's a cover - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30DMi866ThM
<oerheks> xfiles :-D
<oerheks> wicked
<JimBuntu> No idea about that... but Marilyn Manson did a good version too, that was my introduction
<JimBuntu> This should be the original - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4EMmvP8rWo
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<lotuspsychje> im reinstalling bionic on desktop
<lotuspsychje> after gdm bug, now snapd service bug
<lotuspsychje> systemd looped snapd countdown, could not get into tty anymore
<tomreyn> :-/
<lotuspsychje> oh well fresh installing comming up :p
<tomreyn> more luck this time ;)
<lotuspsychje> more bugs more candy :p
<lotuspsychje> updating & installing packages
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<oerheks> What does a chicken says when it crosses the road?
<lotuspsychje> toktok
<oerheks> TÃ´k .. it is hot!
<lotuspsychje> lol?
<oerheks> dumb dumbs
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje_> Client: HexChat 2.14.1 â¢ OS: Ubuntu "bionic" 18.04 â¢ CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ (2,00GHz) â¢ Memory: Physical: 1,9 GiB Total (814,2 MiB Free) Swap: 2,0 GiB Total (2,0 GiB Free) â¢ Storage: 13,5 GB / 118,8 GB (105,3 GB Free) â¢ VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] R420 [Radeon X800 PRO/GTO AGP] @ VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8385 [K8T800 AGP] Host Bridge â¢ Uptime: 10m 15s
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<sonicwind> hey lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey there sonicwind
<lotuspsychje> watched foot?
<sonicwind> nope
<sonicwind> I'm in Chicago.... American football/NFL :-)
<lotuspsychje> kk
<sonicwind> where are you?
<lotuspsychje> belgium
<sonicwind> ah nice
<sonicwind> I was an exchange student in Dusseldorf for a summer a long, long time ago.
<sonicwind> right on the Rhein
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> germany is cool
<sonicwind> I enjoyed it.
<sonicwind> Unfortunately the only other country I made it to was Austria.
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<Guest78697> hello
<lotuspsychje> hi
<Guest78697> im a machine learning practitioner and have been playing with the idea of creating my own 'distro' for data scientists
<Guest78697> would be based on ubuntu and come pre-loaded with 100s of software packages like Anaconda, R, Keras, etc and tools of use to data scientists
<lotuspsychje> Guest78697: there are so many distro's out there already, you sure you wanna do this?
<Guest78697> lotuspsychje, yes thats what im struggling with. maybe it'd be better just to create a docker image and share it?
<Guest78697> I obviously cannot maintain a distro by myself
<lotuspsychje> Guest78697: how about using software that backups your fav software and spread it to other scientists
<lotuspsychje> Guest78697: running your own distro means alot of work, perhaps you can better use your time?
<Guest78697> true
<Guest78697> lotuspsychje: I need to find a way to distribute the backups easily
<Guest78697> short of creating my own anaconda type package that comes preloaded with everything
<lotuspsychje> Guest78697: i think the ubuntu-server guys might know a tool for that, that can deploy a bunch of packages easy to 50 client pcs
<oerheks> just make a metapackage or list, if you tend no to maintain it
<lotuspsychje> cant recall package name
<Guest78697> hmm that would be awesome
<Guest78697> i hate having to reinstall everything myself too when I go to a different machine
<lotuspsychje> aptoncd is not on 18.04 anymore...
<lotuspsychje> there might be other apt tricks for it
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-07-11
<hggdh> â14:06:20         Spads | looks like the log bots are back
<hggdh> a total of about 15 minutes gap
<lotuspsychje> we can live with that :p
<OerHeks> mi logs ...
<lotuspsychje> oh my logs!
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> probably ready only cola cola cola here
<daftykins> i hope you broke all the rules in that 15 minute window ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> nice releases those amzn daftykins
<lotuspsychje> erm
<BluesKaj> uu
<BluesKaj> oops
<daftykins> hmm new apache on bionic without anything on USN, what would that mean...
<hggdh> daftykins: openssl1.1.1 update
<daftykins> oh o0
<hggdh> I mean, one more update relating to issues after new openssl
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> thanks!
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic disco
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 5.0.0.20.21 (disco), package size 2 kB, installed size 15 kB
<hggdh> re. snap updates, there is https://docs.snapcraft.io/system-options (System Options/snap refresh), but it seems to be limited to 60 days
<tomreyn> i feel strongly reminded of $other_os
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-07-12
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Sveta>  https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xzj45/someone-is-spamming-and-breaking-a-core-component-of-pgps-ecosystem
<Sveta> i don't understand it...
<Sveta> who cares who signed my key? if i already shared it with my friend and he knows it belongs to me, everything else doesn't matter
<lotuspsychje> https://access.redhat.com/articles/4264021
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Morning lotuspsychje , how are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> all good lordievader tnx
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> we had an interesting issue in main, tsimonq asking about spam signed gpg key
<lotuspsychje> <tsimonq2> Fun keyserver-related question that probably belongs here.
<lotuspsychje> <tsimonq2> My GPG key was signed by some spammers, and I would like to remove the spam signatures.
<lotuspsychje> <tsimonq2> I currently hold my GPG private key, so I hope this is still possible
<lordievader> Interesting. Why would spammers sign keys though, what is in it for them to do so?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: this seemed interesting: https://gist.github.com/rjhansen/67ab921ffb4084c865b3618d6955275f
<lordievader> Oh, that is quite bad.
<lotuspsychje> not sure i understand the spammers reasons yet
<lordievader> Reading the sks post you just gave, this might be a way to DoS a lot of things... the whole debian/ubuntu package infra comes to mind...
<lotuspsychje> yeah this really doesnt sound good..
<blackflow> wait, what does this mean really, that the KSK infra is effectively blown out, public keys can no longer be trusted?
<blackflow> *SKS
<blackflow> yeup.... boom. "stop retrieving data from the SKS keyserver network"
<lordievader> They can still be trusted, they just might break the implementation you are running.
<blackflow> I'd call that very much untrusted :)
<blackflow> besides, from reading about it in detail, there's no way of knowing which signatures are legitimate and which are poisoned, so yeah, no go.
<RikMills> lotuspsychje: wow @ Simon's GPG key!
<lotuspsychje> RikMills: yeah its nuts
<blackflow> After re-installing 18.04.2. from scratch, I forgot to disable STUPID, MORONIC, IDIOTIC unattended upgrades that just upgraded Firefox behind my back and the thing crashed while I was trying to send an email via webmail.
<blackflow> "A system designed for idiots is only usable by idiots"
<marcoagpinto> Hey
<marcoagpinto> guys?!
<lordievader> ð
<marcoagpinto> the software I am coding has the GUI showing okay on 18.04, but on versions above the panel gadget becomes bigger and the gadgets inside it go a few pixels below
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> should I check for Linux version or GTK version to fix it
<marcoagpinto> for example, in Ubuntu 18.10+ I want to add more pixels to the panel gadget to compensate it takes more space
<marcoagpinto> ?
<blackflow> Which package do I file a bug against, that pertains to default installed packages?
<lotuspsychje> what kind of bug are you encountering blackflow
<blackflow> unattended-upgrade being installed and enabled by default
<RikMills> A bug in a default package? Or you disagree with the default choice?
<RikMills> Oh, that
<lotuspsychje> wishlist against linux perhaps?
<blackflow> the kernel?
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: or against unattended-upgrades itself?
<RikMills> That fact that it is installed, would be a seed issue. So probably file against Ubuntu desktop meta package (though that change is likely in platform/core)
<lotuspsychje> ah
<RikMills> The fact that it's enabled by default, could be against the package itself, of perhaps a default settings package
<blackflow> lotuspsychje: problem is unattended-upgraes is not tracked by launchpad
<lotuspsychje> !info unattended-upgrades
<blackflow> RikMills: yeah it can be installed by default, just not enabled.
<ubot5> unattended-upgrades (source: unattended-upgrades): automatic installation of security upgrades. In component main, is optional. Version 1.1ubuntu1.18.04.11 (bionic), package size 40 kB, installed size 384 kB
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: is this wish for server?
<RikMills> blackflow: huh? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unattended-upgrades
<blackflow> RikMills: Now add /+filebug    to that URL and hit enter
<blackflow> "unattended-upgrades does not use Launchpad as its bug tracker. "
<blackflow> ah, must file against the source package
<blackflow> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unattended-upgrades/+filebug
<RikMills> blackflow: yep
<blackflow> bug 1836328      please mark if you agree
<ubot5> bug 1836328 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unattended-upgrades should not be enabled by default" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1836328
<luna_> Listening to this weeks episode now: http://ubuntupodcast.org/2019/07/11/s12e14-sega-rally-championship/
<blackflow> Changing/modifying software without direct user intervention used to be called Malware. Back in the day only compromised systems modified its own software unexpectedly. And then Ubuntu came...
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: affected & added to -discuss team
<blackflow> much obliged.
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: someone set your bug to wontfix
<lotuspsychje> oO
<blackflow> of course :)
<lordievader> Wasn't this a somewhat recent change?
<lordievader> As in the enablement by default.
<blackflow> I think it is yes, but I can't pinpoint it. I usually install via debootstrap and never include that thing.
<blackflow> It's now also a default in debian Buster it seems.
<RikMills> someone = member of foundations team
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj!!!!
<marcoagpinto> Hello!!!
<BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> I was doing some exercises
 * lotuspsychje sighs
<lotuspsychje> jelly: so wich Os would that be?
<jelly> lotuspsychje, sorry, apparently I had reached the join channel limit and had to choose which channels to give up, to join here
<jelly> lotuspsychje, debian
<lotuspsychje> jelly: so you advice to eolupgrade debian to the next version, without warning the security part?
<jelly> lotuspsychje, absolutely
<tomreyn> hehe, reached the channel limit, that's already tough on freenode.
<blackflow> lotuspsychje: what warning?
<jelly> it's set to low 120 channels.
<tomreyn> :)
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: if the eol system has been taken over
<blackflow> lotuspsychje: I don't follow you
<jelly> lotuspsychje, the security issue is exactly the same whether you have, say, left an unpatched bionic for a year, or left an unpatched artful for a year
<lotuspsychje> lets take 17.10 as example, alot of usn came out since, the system could be compromized
<lotuspsychje> would you still trust that system?
<jelly> that applies to 18.04 as well.
<blackflow> "could" yes... but how likely is it.
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: but how can one be sure?
<blackflow> your running LTS "could" be compromised right now with a zero day nobody knows about but the attacker.
<jelly> lotuspsychje, would you trust it LESS than an unpatched 16.04 or 18.04?
<blackflow> you can't be sure here either.
<blackflow> I'd just hate to jump to conclusions.
<lotuspsychje> jelly: this is not about lts or non-lts
<lotuspsychje> its about eol versions
<jelly> lotuspsychje, I'm not suggesting the user to keep running an unsupported release.
<lotuspsychje> jelly: i know, but you cant be sure its hacked or not
<lotuspsychje> so why take the risk?
<jelly> lotuspsychje, you can't know if your xenial has been hacked, EITHER
<jelly> there's no functional difference.
<lotuspsychje> thats true, but thats why we advice users to keep system up to date
<lotuspsychje> jelly: plus, this user didnt want to update
<jelly> lotuspsychje, does "please go from 17.10 to 18.04" not count as "keep system up to date"?
<lotuspsychje> not much we can advice anymore
<lotuspsychje> volunteers adviced him to eolupgrade
<jelly> okay.  I misunderstood you as "don't eolupgrade"
<lotuspsychje> no i did not
<tomreyn> jelly: when someone comes to #ubuntu with an eol'd version we almost always use the !eol factoid , which also points to !eolupgrade - and we often trigger that, too.
<BluesKaj> sometimes these cement heads just want to troll, they know they're eol, but afraid to admit it so they become aggressive
<tomreyn> and sometimes, if the user seeks to upgrade, we also help them do so.
<tomreyn> or they are pentesters but have no idea about what they're doing.
<blackflow> lol.. this discusion is to teh contrary -- not recommending eolupgrade to "such old systems".
<lotuspsychje> 60 pages of !usn since ubuntu 17.10 do i need to say more?
<tomreyn> i think it's perfectly fine to recommend a fresh installation over an unsupported release upgrade path
<blackflow> lotuspsychje: and how many unfixed for Bionic?  https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/main.html
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: i never claimed a fully updated system isnt a risk neither :p
<lotuspsychje> but that doesnt mean we cant warn users about risks
<lotuspsychje> like tomreyn said, the !eolupgrade factoid also needs a rework
<blackflow> !eolupgrade
<ubot5> End-Of-Life is when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOL for more info. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<tomreyn> launchpad is partially down. this is not a bug - at least not one you can currently file on launchpad. :-P
 * RikMills blames swift
<blackflow> tomreyn: aww, you defanged some nice jokes now :)
<tomreyn> surely you mean the bank transfer system
<blackflow> ColdFusion(tm)
<tomreyn> maybe there'll be updates on https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus if it'll last some hours.
<tomreyn> or here https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-announce/2019-July/thread.html
<blackflow> they upgraded the underlying os from Stretch to Buster? :)
<tomreyn> rather from 12.04-PATCHED to 14.04-PATCHED
<blackflow> oof!
<tomreyn> i made this up, really. but i did see 12.04 version numbers on at least one of those servers while 12.04 ESM was active - which can be fine.
<tomreyn> it's certainly not an easily maintained infrastructure.
<blackflow> best opportunity for Canonical to dogfood their products ;)
<tomreyn> it's already back
<OerHeks> ohh https://store.steampowered.com/app/226840/Age_of_Wonders_III/ free to keep if you get it before the 15th
<Eickmeyer> People need to stop reporting bugs against PPA packages.
<Eickmeyer> !bug is <reply> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its official !flavors, please report it using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - Please do not use this to report bugs against packages acquired from PPAs, contact that !ppa owner. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<OerHeks> bug reporting against a snap is also fun
<Eickmeyer> Heh
<Eickmeyer> At least once a day I"m getting bug reports for GIMP when someone either 1) installed from a PPA, or 2) attempted to compile it themself, it fails to compile, and they file it against the version in the repo. >.<
<blackflow> Eickmeyer: I thought launchpad was trying to become central place for more than just ubuntu main repo packages.
<tomreyn> now (how) will they know whether their package is from a PPA, this is yet to be explained, i guess?
<tomreyn> apt policy packagename, but it wont fit into this factoid
<blackflow> I don't get it. Why not report bugs to LP for PPA packages?
<Eickmeyer> blackflow: Yeah, but only if the PPA maintainer sets it up themselves. 'ubuntu-bug {package}' simply files it against the package in the repo, nowhere else.
<blackflow> Not sure I follow
<Eickmeyer> tomreyn: Most people add PPAs themselves for newer versions of software, so they would know they installed it from a PPA. If they don't, then they shouldn't be messing with PPAs to begin with.
<blackflow> for example if I wanted to file a bug against nvidia-driver-430 from the graphics PPA... what would I do?
<Eickmeyer> blackflow: using 'ubuntu-bug {package}' files it against lp:ubuntu/+source/{package}. That doesn't apply to PPAs at all.
<Eickmeyer> blackflow: Contact the PPA owner.
<popey_> We have looked at adapting apport type programs for snaps, for sure.
<hggdh> blackflow: yes, the sequence is adjust apport so that it is able to deal with snap-specific BTS (at _least_ point to the user where to go)
<hggdh> popey_: heh
<blackflow> I'm telling you , nobody is gonna bother registering and filing bugs against dozens of different trackers. NOBODY.
<popey_> As I said, that's already the case.
<popey_> Statistically speaking, nobody files bugs. We know this already. What's the news here?
<blackflow> it's also the case that users who would otherwise file a bug, won't.  like me. I file whenever I find an issue, at LP.   will I do the same for snaps? with no central place? nah. I won't bother.
<popey_> Your loss.
<hggdh> I agree the major risk on snaps (or flatpaks, for that matter) is publish & forget
<blackflow> popey_: I doubt that. I just won't use the snap. it's not as if I can't get software outside of it.
<blackflow> (in context where the snap doesn't work or something)
<popey_> Great!
<blackflow> hggdh: as years of docker has shown.
<hggdh> let's move a bit, and compare with IOS/Android. Where do you file bugs for a third-party application (i.e., *not* Apple or Google)?
<blackflow> popey_: I hope you realize that attitude toward users who would like to contrib with bug reports, is really just gonna result with the whole ecosystm becoming like windows, degrading into an unusable mess.   PPAs redux.
<popey_> Or windows apps, or mac apps?
<hggdh> ^
<popey_> blackflow: which attitude?
<blackflow> the one you're showing here.
<popey_> I'm showing indifference because it's a monumental waste of time trying to convince you of anything, that's very clear.
<popey_> So why should I bother?
<hggdh> what can snapcraft do: if an application is misbehaving badly, remove if from the store. If an application does NOT provide a BTS link, warn the user, clearly, that there is NO support
<blackflow> I'm not asking you to convince _me_. Im just telling you that without a central place for us users to file bug reports, even us who otherwise would, will NOT because nobody is gonna bother with dozens of different accounts at dozens of different trackers.
<popey_> I completely understand your perspective, and politely disagree.
<popey_> I think you're exaggerating for hyperbole sake.
<popey_> Nobody signs up to "dozens of different trackers". Nobody.
<blackflow> well that's my point.
<popey_> People sign up to one or two here and there for specific issues that annoy them
<popey_> Right, my point is that's already the status quo!
<blackflow> so the takeway here is that snap store won't bother with a central place to report issues because nobody is filing them anyway, and upstreams mostly have their own?
<popey_> No.
<popey_> The takeaway is that developers have their own trackers, so why not use them.
<hggdh> no, this is not it.  a distribution centre is NOT the same as development. You distribute, you do not support
<blackflow> I think we're going in circles here....
<popey_> The vast majority of users already do not file bugs. Enthusiasts do. You might not. This is not the end of the world.
<hggdh> e.g., you go to (say) Best Buy and buy a laptop; if, later on, the laptop mishehaves (or -- say -- Windows misbehaves) you go to the manufacturer, not Best Buy. And yes, I know this is sort of contrived
<blackflow> hggdh: uhhh no. Here in EU I take it to the store where I bought it as I've got warranty....
<hggdh> blackflow: yes, we are sort of going in circles. We do not agree with you, and we are trying to show why
<blackflow> in fact, if I tried to call the manufacturer, they would just tell me to contact the store where I bought it.
<hggdh> blackflow: so you return your laptop to the store cuz it is BSOD-ing. What will the store do?
<blackflow> hggdh: the stores here take it for diagnostics and repair.
<hggdh> blackflow: so let's keep on. The disgostics come back saying it is a software failure. Then what?
<blackflow> let's not. this is now strawman and outside of scope of the example you were trying to make.
<hggdh> ok
<popey_> We have written blog posts, and spoken directly to developers telling them how to optimise their store page.
<popey_> Part of that is linking to bug trackers.
<popey_> If we had a central tracker, we'd be middle men where their bugs go to die
<popey_> Hello launchpad :D
<blackflow> And now, hello "Even less people are gonna bother reporting bugs".
<popey_> We'll see :)
<blackflow> hggdh: the part about strawman... a snap is a whole product. there's no hardware-software dychotomy. it's all software.... there's no parts the user can install into the snap and break the warranty.
<blackflow> ie. if you "take back the snap to the store, for repairs", the vendor can't shrug. Eithre the software in the snap is broken (vendor's responsibility), or teh snap framework is broken.
<hggdh> blackflow: who is the warrantor?
<popey_> Who is the best person to tell, when the software is broken? The person who made it.
<popey_> ergo, their bug tracker
<blackflow> just like with real hw laptops from teh orig example: the vendor is. vendors have agreements with distributors who have agreements with stores, to cover the warranty.
<popey_> Ooh, it's the weekend. Time for beer
<popey_> Cheerio!
<daftykins> enjoy, sir \o
<hggdh> popey_: cheers
<blackflow> I never said that bugs should not be reported to vendors. I merely questioned the _place_ where such reports -- to vendors -- are made.
<blackflow> if you're gonna force users to hunt down upstream trackers (which'd require registering and whatnot) -- good luck with people wanting to do that. I don't think I'm being unreasonalbe or hyperbolic with that statement.
<daftykins> TJ-: wb, happy Friday \o
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: ready for weekend support?
<hggdh> blackflow: no, not forcing users to hunt down. The sore could (as said before) enforce developers to clearly indicate where to get support
<hggdh> s/sore/store/
<daftykins> do any of you folks have contact with debian for bug reporting an upstream bug? apcupsd has a bad default parameter in the shipping .conf that causes IRQ error spamming
<daftykins> i just installed buster in a VM to confirm - this stems from bug 1781016
<ubot5> bug 1781016 in linux (Ubuntu) "Slow flood of do_IRQ: No irq for vector" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1781016
<tomreyn> you don't stricrly need 'contact with debian' for this, other than be able to send mail to bugs.debian.org
<daftykins> well yeah i just figured it'd be a nice shortcut
<tomreyn> making them send that e-mail? ;)
<tomreyn> https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<daftykins> yes i'm on that page right now, which is what had me thinking email was an incorrect choice to begin with
<tomreyn> there is no other way than e-mail AFAIK
<tomreyn> reportbug also uses email
<tomreyn> use an e-mail address you have good spam filters on
<daftykins> nope i'm just not going to bother, then
<tomreyn> or that ;)
<daftykins> just seen how many are sat open against the package as it stands...
<blackflow> daftykins: you can file for Ubuntu too, there's a section in the bug tracker for Debian as a distro for the package
<daftykins> are you sure there'd be any point, given it just comes from upstream and a considering reply 23 on the above? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1781016/comments/23
<pragmaticenigma> daftykins: whta is the work around? I'd love to remove those!
<daftykins> -a
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1781016 in linux (Ubuntu) "Slow flood of do_IRQ: No irq for vector" [Medium,Incomplete]
<daftykins> remove what?
<daftykins> it's already described on the above bug, commenting out the serial device line
<daftykins> so essentially the default shipping config has USB and serial enabled out of the box, which isn't too smart
<tomreyn> comment 23 is what's to be expected whenever you file a bug against a package imported from debian (which is not in main / restricted)
<daftykins> yes but that doesn't answer to me whether there's anything to be gained by what blackflow suggested :)
<tomreyn> true. in my experience such bug reports will just sit there.
<blackflow> mine got resolved in a few hours today. both for ubuntu AND debian.
<tomreyn> though there can be exceptions. such as when it's a security bug and the security team has some time to handle it beyond handling main + restricted (which does happen).
<blackflow> they're very fast when the solution is EWONTFIX.
<daftykins> that's why i'm very demoralised on bug reporting in general, pretty much everything i've ever had a hand in has sat for years
<tomreyn> can't say this for myself.
<lordcirth> I've had widely varying experiences on that front.
<daftykins> well i'm sure you've done a lot more than me
<lordcirth> from less than a day to never
<tomreyn> ^ that's my experience, too.
<lordcirth> There's also the intermediate "someone came by and set priority, area, bug type, etc" and then nothing
<blackflow> I've had mixed results too.
<daftykins> if i'm honest about the above i was embarrassed not to have spotted it myself, mind you
<tomreyn> less than a day is really rare obviously. never is not uncommon. what's in main or restricted is usually handled sooner or later, though, depending (not only) on criticality + impact
<lordcirth> Ah, I was talking about bugs in general, not Ubuntu or whatever specifically
<blackflow> btw.... weird that default LTS ISO installer would install you non-LTS kernel.... just occured to me.
<tomreyn> which one's that?
<tomreyn> and which kernel did it install?
<daftykins> yeah what do you mean? the 18.04.2 image will install 4.15 unless you specifically select HWE from the boot menu
<OerHeks> blackflow, on vbox ..
<blackflow> tomreyn: I got the HWE 4.18 one, fresh new installation of 18.04.2
<blackflow> OerHeks: yeah, saw that lol
<blackflow> daftykins: I did not select anything special
<tomreyn> blackflow: so you got linux-image-generic-hwe-18.04 - which will track the latest HWE kernel image until 18.04 EOL
<tomreyn> the kernel version + abi will change though, yes
<blackflow> yup
<blackflow> I was just surprised to see it installed by default. That and nvidia-driver.
<daftykins> i thought you had to specifically pick HWE from both legacy and EFI boot methods, ah well
<lotuspsychje> bionic has now default 4.18 kernel on iso from downloads
<tomreyn> i think you have to on a d-i installation, not on ubiquity, not sure about subiquity
<lotuspsychje> the one that boosted my ssd's :p
<tomreyn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Support?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=18.04.x+Ubuntu+Kernel+Support+Schedule.svg
<lotuspsychje> handy tomreyn tnx
<tomreyn> even more so, showing how things changed twice since 14.04 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Support#A14.04.x_Ubuntu_Kernel_Support
<tomreyn> actually they changed once only :)
<blackflow> lotuspsychje: oh btw... I saw no difference with my boot times aftre reinstalling .2 from scratch.
 * daftykins installs from 18.04.1 media and sticks to the stock kernel if newer hardware support isn't needed
 * blackflow is a sucker for latest and greatest.
<daftykins> confessed version number chaser eh? :)
<blackflow> yeppers.
<tomreyn> two days ago, but i missed this update: https://twitter.com/ubuntu_sec/status/1149150094836396032
<sarnold> blackflow: in a meeting.. more in a bit
<blackflow> sarnold: np
<blackflow> tomreyn: this about ZFS on 5.x kernels is what's worrying me wiht HWE... I'd rather stay with 4.15 then until 20.04 and 0.8.x ZFS which I think has the , or will have, regressions fixed.
<lordcirth> If I don't run the latest of everything, how am I supposed to know everything I can by the time it's prod-ready? XD
<sarnold> blackflow: so.. I'm personally afraid that the kernel devs removed the fpu symbols to set a lawsuit trap
<sarnold> blackflow: one of the other distros put together a patch to reexport those symbols and it's my own opinion that canonical is too much of a lightning rod to use that patch
<blackflow> sarnold: gentoo is for example, yes.
<sarnold> thanks, yes, that's the patch :) I couldn't recall who did it
<blackflow> but I doubt the kernel devs are doing this as lawsuit bait. afaik they're very vehemently against involving courts in GPL violations.
<sarnold> I've seen enough comments over the years in support of harald welte's lawsuit that I have drawn a different conclusion there :)
<blackflow> That the VMWare lawsuit?
<blackflow> huh no, that's some other lawsuit.
<blackflow> but anways, both GHK and Linus are against GPL lawsuits. I think this is just to mess with commerical vendors that'd use ZFS as they probably wouldn't want to risk anything. Methinks the devs hate ZFS.
<blackflow> but I think ZFS is just gonna reinvent those functions through SPL. For now, as a quick patch, they just made ZFS buildable under 5.x, but I haven't been following the dev so close in the past month or two, so I don't know what's new there.
<sarnold> oh I *know* the devs hate zfs :)
<blackflow> shame. it's really the best FS in the whole ecosystem, for now. btrfs is barely a shadow to zfs, and bcachefs is a joke that'll take at least 10 year to reach ZFS grade maturity, if at all.
<lordcirth> btrfs has, afaik, exactly two advantages over ZFS. Firstly, it's easier to install to a btrfs root than a ZFS root, but that's more a matter of distro support. Secondly, it deals well with mismatched drive sizes.
<sarnold> a few weeks ago I saw a comment like, "if you want zfs to work fast, reimplement it with a clean license, and use our framework for snapshots, raid, etc" and .. the whole point of zfs is that it's just so much *better*
<blackflow> lordcirth: those are advantages yes, but it's instability and buggyness drowns those out
<blackflow> *its
<blackflow> sarnold: that's never gonna happen. OpenZFS still wants it to be cross platform which demands it not depend on any kernel features (too much).
<blackflow> which also shows how alien ZFS is in Linux. but eh...
<sarnold> blackflow: heh, yeah.
<sarnold> I *really* hope we can sort out something good before 20.04. It'd be a real shame if that's 20% the speed of 18.04 zfs and five times the CPU use..
<blackflow> sarnold: back to DKMS and patching out GPL symbols :)
<blackflow> that does not violate GPL.
<sarnold> blackflow: yeah, that's true. that ought to be good. it's also more complicated and brittle :(
<blackflow> hmmm, dunno, I've got a few debian machines with root on ZFS on LUKS too and those work flawlessly. In fact, I upgraded just today one of them to Buster, it went smooth and glitchless.
<sarnold> I'm glad to hear that :) for my new laptop I've done the root on zfs on luks route and omg I'm glad for rlaager's excellent guide
<sarnold> I made two typos in crypttab I think that took me *hours* to track down.
<sarnold> and the whole time I was thinking "I should just do this over with ext4 like a normal person and not hate this choice in two years" :)
<blackflow> heh. I got one step further, custom initramfs script for remote unlocking via SSH which also does optional rollback for rpool, should an upgrade bust boot.
<sarnold> wow :)
<TJ-> Is ZoL really that stable? 110 open defects currently
<OerHeks> and benchmarks are not that great either https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=freebsd-zol-april&num=1
<sarnold> doing good benchmarks is hard; there's so many conflicting results there that don't make sense to me that I'm inclined to write off the entire article as not very informative
<sarnold> all those results showing ext4 *slower* than zfs are a cause for concern: I would want to know what about the workload lets that make sense.
<TJ-> copy-on-write possibly
<EriC^^> some folks will waste precious time of volunteers on a definition saying it's misleading and cause havoc as if world war 3 broke out cause of a wrong definition, maybe you should read more, here have fun https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/346425/what-is-the-difference-between-a-hard-link-and-a-file/346575#346575 "This leads to the statement that every directory entry is actually a hardlink, and that hardlinking a file just means to create a seco
<EriC^^> nd (or third, or fourth...) hardlink. In fact, each inode stores a counter for the number of hardlinks to that inode." enjoy blackflow but please refrain from EVER speaking to me the way you did today or  in any manner what so EVER. i wont tolerate your actions and you've taken stuff too far for too long. be warned
<EriC^^> tfeh
<OerHeks> https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/ubuntu-lts-releases-and-so-derivatives-too-to-get-updated-nvidia-drivers-without-ppas.14557
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-07-13
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<RikMills> https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus/status/1149924386461253632
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<marcoagpinto> Heya
<marcoagpinto> >:) <- evil demon
<BluesKaj> heh, marcoagpinto, you wish :-)
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> I have some cola in the freezer
<marcoagpinto> :)
<BluesKaj> make sure it doesn't freeze
<marcoagpinto> I am still on holiday!!!!
<marcoagpinto> next Saturday I will be back to my weekend job
<marcoagpinto> it is a good time to work on the GB speller as it will have more users now that Firefox dropped support for en_ZA (South Africa)
<jeremy31> Not sure who the guy is that wrote http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2019/04/nstall-rtl8723de-wifi-driver-ubuntu-19-04/    but I don't think the rtl8723de chip has 4 antenna ports
<OerHeks> dunno exactly
<lotuspsychje> i must say, realtek was a lot of hassle for me on xenial, but didnt encounter much issues on bionic yet
<jeremy31> ant_sel=2 has worked for people with rtl8723be/de using Larry Finger's github
<lotuspsychje> tested different realtek chipsets
<jeremy31> There have been issues with HP laptops with rtl8723be in bionic
<lotuspsychje> aha tnx for feedback jeremy31
<jeremy31> The kernel team pulled a commit that broke ant_sel, only HP users with one antenna wire would notice
<lotuspsychje> interesting
<jeremy31> lotuspsychje: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1788997
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1788997 in linux (Ubuntu) "rtl8723be wifi does not work under linux-modules-extra-4.15.0-33-generic" [Medium,Confirmed]
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-07-14
<JanC> I think most Realtek WiFi drivers are reverse-engineered from throw-over-the-wall code that was only intended to work with 1 specific hardware combination
<JanC> and only written to work with 1 kernel
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<BluesKaj> howdy folks
<TJ-> The Cricket World Cup final is causing glitches in my CPU here!
<sappheiros> does ubuntu have Microsoft OneNote alternative software for handwriting content on touchscreen laptops?
<daftykins> hrmm, i'm looking into the idea of setting up a digitalocean VPS for a friends small business, the intention would be for it to host his website and a Nextcloud instance with the company documents shared between the employees. I'm under the impression it would be wise to secure the data storage path of Nextcloud via file system level encryption, does that make sense?
<TJ-> daftykins: only whilst the file-system is at rest; it won't help whilist the OS/services are running and need to access it
<daftykins> TJ-: mmm i thought that'd be the case, given it'd be powered on 24x7 what do you think would be the best way to go?
<daftykins> i was just digging into the Nextcloud docs about how their built-in encryption works
<TJ-> daftykins: I've not actually checked but does it support gpg encryption with multiple keys?
<daftykins> hmm i don't see anything
<tomreyn> https://nextcloud.com/endtoend/
<tomreyn> https://github.com/nextcloud/end_to_end_encryption_rfc/blob/master/RFC.md
<tomreyn> i'm just reading up on this.
<JanC> "RFC" sounds like they are still working on it?
<daftykins> that part sounds like the one i saw earlier where they want $1000 a year for up to 50 users
<tomreyn> it doesn't look like it's going to be an ietf RFC, but that's probably what provided the name.
<tomreyn> the feature was introduced in nextcloud 13
<tomreyn> read the threat models on the first link
<TJ-> The code looks reasonable
<daftykins> strangely the 'end to end encryption' endpoint app is not available for the current v16
<daftykins> heh there's a post on reddit where someone trialled the end to end encryption and found it was massively broken
<daftykins> hmm, ok my current thinking is to employ the use of nextcloud's built-in encryption feature, then if any data truly critical needs to be stored on it - client side tools will need to be explored and employed
<daftykins> earlier it seemed to be suggesting creating an ecryptfs volume, but if that's not going to gain me anything, i'm not sure it's worth it?
<TJ-> daftykins: the E2E code in the desktop client looks OK; do users need to use an 'app' on a PDA or are they using portable PCs
<daftykins> TJ-: they might well wish for smartphone access, yeah
<daftykins> judging from comments online, people are saying to avoid the E2EE as it's too alpha
<daftykins> hmm one reference to https://cryptomator.org
<TJ-> I'd hope they'd have a securit audit of the design and the code before releasing it but don't see any plans along that line
<sappheiros> does ubuntu have Microsoft OneNote alternative software for handwriting content on touchscreen laptops?
<TJ-> sappheiros: not that I've noticedl; not polished anyhow. My 1998 windows CE PDA is better at hand-writing recognition than any Linux package I've tried
<sappheiros> ouch
<daftykins> hah now docs.nextcloud.com appears to be down for me
<Bashing-om> daftykins: docs.nextcloud.com has not completed for me here either :(
<daftykins> thanks! must be a sign i shouldn't work on a Sunday ;)
<TJ-> cloudflare down again? :P
<Bashing-om> daftykins: A day of rest for what might ail ya :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<Bashing-om> daftykins: https://docs.nextcloud.com/ popped up - try now :)
<daftykins> weyhey ^_^
<daftykins> well i definitely haven't settled on an encryption choice
<marcoagpinto> I have no life :(
<marcoagpinto> I am converting videos to the professor of interviews with him
<jeremy31> But you aren't dead yet, you can change
<marcoagpinto> yes
<marcoagpinto> :)
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: Internet challenge: Go outside!
<marcoagpinto> pragmaticenigma: at midnight it is hard to go out... but I will go in the morning to buy some cola as I have run out of stock
<marcoagpinto> and the city here is full of drunk folks
<daftykins> ok ecryptfs seems to be winning again!
<pragmaticenigma> new internet challenge... 30 day no soda challenge!
<marcoagpinto> I wouldn't survive
<marcoagpinto> :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-06
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<AWFunTV> hi , can someone help me about potentially un maintained packages in focal
<daftykins> that'd be a support query for #ubuntu main
<coconut> daftykins, my fault then, since i advised this channel.. oops
<AWFunTV> i was just at #ubuntu main and they told me to come here
<daftykins> ah well write it out and we'll see!
<AWFunTV> @dafykine, was that a response to my request, as I got directed here from #ubuntu
<AWFunTV> got is sorry slow updates
<AWFunTV> The package ISC-DHCP-Server, has an ever growing number of un assigned bugs, and no activity since april
<AWFunTV> #In my case due a a bug I cant run in a cluster
<daftykins> a DHCP server in a cluster... interesting scenario
<AWFunTV> you need a cluster of servers (clustered by dhcp), as if one fails and there is no backup, devices start dropping off the network when they try to renew the lease
<AWFunTV> raised a bug had it confimed by multple other people, and a work around i.e use the dhcp from ubuntu 18.04. but no response from the maintainers
<AWFunTV> and lots more potential bugs recieving the same (no) response
<daftykins> 'buntus support period probably makes it unsuitable for your intended setup anyway, since i'd be willing to bet a cluster on a network is something you don't want to be reinstalling in 5 years
<AWFunTV> testing only takes a few weeks
<AWFunTV> already migrated from 14.04 - 16 - 18 - 20
<AWFunTV> the config is really simple and used to work really well
<AWFunTV> remember this is a cluster at the app level
<daftykins> i don't think i'm following the use of the term right, normally clustering is for high availability of a more serious main service... just having DHCP not behave seems a little basic
<daftykins> which release did it last behave correctly on?
<AWFunTV> 18.04
<AWFunTV> this is cluster at the app level not at the server level, I haven seen server level cluster for years, it all seems to be at the app level these data
<AWFunTV> effectively isc-dhcp-server installed on two diffeernt system and they exchange state information, to allow either server to serve any request and each to be aware of each other state, so if one fails the remaining server can continue
<AWFunTV> dont forget if DHCP fails, devices start to drop off the network as their IP  lease is not renewed, its kind of critical
<AWFunTV> I currently have the 18.04 release installed and pinned on 20.04 and it workd perfectly
<daftykins> so why did you upgrade?
<AWFunTV> multiple people have confirmed the bug exists
<daftykins> yes you've already repeated that and i'm quite familiar with DHCP :)
<AWFunTV> to keep all the packages up to the latest level. Gone are the days of running  out of date s/w
<daftykins> but apparently it wasn't important enough to test and identify ahead of time?
<AWFunTV> I have a lot of AI running on the network
<daftykins> lol, ok i'm out - this is a total crock
<daftykins> hf
<Ussat> define out of date software, just because its not latest dosnt mean its out of date
<AWFunTV> I've worked in environments where people do not upgrade until the end of extended support. I've always tried to keep up with the latest s/w especailly as i run a lot of AI and want a consistent build,
<AWFunTV> which is the right hannel to report un supported packages
<daftykins> if you've already contacted the maintainer and they haven't responded, you'll have to change your distro choice or compile yourself
<Ussat> again, the "latest" is not always the best . If you TRUELY wanted the LATEST you would not even be useing Ubuntu
<AWFunTV> i though ubuntu had a policy that all s/w n teir packages much be maintained. I've reported by launchpad, bt they dont appear to be responsing to any issues
<AWFunTV> USSat the latest with some stability
<daftykins> !info isc-dhcp-server
<Ussat> define "some stability"
<Ussat> MOst corp envs are n-1
<AWFunTV> daftykins is that an irc command ?
<Ussat> https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/politics/robocalls-supreme-court-ruling/index.html
<Ussat> ooppsss
<AWFunTV> ussat agreed but it depends on the definition of n
<AWFunTV> major , minor or lower
<Ussat> ....
<daftykins> it would have triggered the bot if it were working or present, yeah
<daftykins> Original-Maintainer: Debian ISC DHCP maintainers <pkg-dhcp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>
<Ussat> wahtever, you arre clueless
<daftykins> well that's not quite the most polite way of phrasing it, but yes it sounds like this issue has been encountered due to a combination of unwise decisions and what i term 'version chasing' so i'm done
<AWFunTV> friendly lot aren't you all
<AWFunTV> bye
<daftykins> best not to enable crazy
<Ussat> but it CAN be entertaining...
<daftykins> :)
<ducasse> AWFunTV: are you using the package rom 18.04?
<ducasse> *from
<Bashing-om> UWN638 is on the streets - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue638 :D
<leftyfb> oerheks: why are you saying 18.04 isn't suitable for the pi 4? It should work fine. If not, then there's a bug that should be fixed
<leftyfb> oerheks: https://ubuntu.com/blog/roadmap-for-official-support-for-the-raspberry-pi-4
<oerheks> he claimed it did not, and returned i have actualle seen no issues
<oerheks> long time we had to wait for the 19.10.1
<waveform> the pi 4 support got backported to 18.04 but the current images have outdated firmware that won't boot it "out of the box"; upgrade the image on an older 3 and it will then boot on a 4
<leftyfb> waveform: that's broken and should be fixed
<leftyfb> no OS should require you to upgrade the OS on different hardware to work on a piece of hardware
<waveform> the 18.04 support was largely for people that wanted to stay on 18.04, i.e. for upgraders; officially we supported the 4B *from* 19.10 - i.e. the LTS that supported the 4B "out of the box" was (and is) 20.04. Still, it is a confusing situation - I'll try and SRU the firmware for 18.04 for the next point release
<oerheks>  Please note that even though these images are labelled "+raspi3" they are compatible with the Raspberry Pi 2 and 3 (and 4 in the case of 19.10.1).
<oerheks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RaspberryPi
<oerheks> ?
<oerheks> i only have a rasppi 2 to test..
<leftyfb> waveform: thank you
<leftyfb> though to be clear, I'm only running 20.04 and Raspbian on my pi's. Moving to Ubuntu as sd cards die out
<leftyfb> it's nice having my pi's running the same OS as my laptop
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-07
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-08
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<gry> hey lotuspsychje
<ducasse> good morning
<gry> good morning, ducasse
<ducasse> hiya there
<lotuspsychje> hey gry
<marcoagpinto> heya
<The_LoudSpeaker> https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/07/08/google-is-teaming-up-with-ubuntu-to-bring-flutter-apps-to-linux/
<The_LoudSpeaker> This is great
<joelcrump> i read about that a bit ago
<joelcrump> it sounds interesting
<The_LoudSpeaker> Where can I test it?
<joelcrump> https://ubuntu.com//blog/canonical-enables-linux-desktop-app-support-with-flutter <-- this might have the instructions, i didn't read the entire thing
<oerheks> I joined cybersecurity https://twitter.com/msftsecurity/status/1280532025817079808   to ______  prepare a windows iso on usb
<daftykins> o0
<joelcrump> i download those ISOs in case someone i know needs me to make a usb drive for them, but definitely not for me to use
<tomreyn> hi TJ-, hoope you're doing well!
<tomreyn> qqqhhh in #ubuntu is affected by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1865293 - I noted coment #21 - do you think the acpi_osi trick could work there?
<tomreyn> (qqqhhh is not one of those on the bug report, rather they posted to https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/hne80o/linux_freezes_r5_3600_at_idle/
<oerheks> look at https://superuser.com/questions/1547977/amd-ryzen-5-3600-ubuntu-20-04-problems
<oerheks> does all core show up?
<tomreyn> oerheks: "all core", what do you mean?
<oerheks> " with kernel parameter acpi=off but now system recognize only 1 core"
<tomreyn> well, acpi=off is nonsense, i guess
<oerheks> oh i see, type, all cores.
<oerheks> yeah, it is not smart.
<tomreyn> but maybe pretending to be windows in acpi terms would help
<tomreyn> because those stability problems always only affect linux apparently
<oerheks> he tried  "processor.max_cstate=1" too..
<oerheks> i find no other bugreports and fixes..
<tomreyn> you mean for this cpu?
<oerheks> cstate 5 and cstate 3 are mentioned too.. https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=245608
<oerheks> i think you have more experience with ryzen than me :-(
<daftykins> never forget being on current firmware to begin, also
<oerheks> he said he did upgrade.
<daftykins> hmm 4 DIMMs of 16GB 2666... wonder if there's enough juice going to those
<daftykins> claims of memtest clean, but that's once loaded a tad
<oerheks> good point
<lotuspsychje> good morning
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-09
<tomreyn> Ubottu now knows about !mtrr :     Memory Type Range Registers (MTRR) is how an operating system learns which ranges of physical memory to cache, and how. If your log says "mtrr_cleanup: can not find optimal value", read https://github.com/tomreyn/linux_mtrr_size_fix
 * lotuspsychje misses ubottu in -discuss
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<TJ-> Hi tomreyn ... I'm good ta though frazzled at the edges! This IRC client seems to want to join and chat on its own these days! Didn't know it'd connected
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> you best have a word with that penguin of yours ;)
<TJ-> I suspect the Huskies!
<daftykins> hehe
<sarnold> re huskies, https://imgur.com/gallery/mGZ7QlB (at least I think they're huskies :)
<TJ-> sarnold: looks like it!
<TJ-> typical lazy lay-abouts :)
<sarnold> lol
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-10
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<marcoagpinto> Hello!
 * daftykins hides
<marcoagpinto> it is me, the cola demon
 * lotuspsychje runs
 * sarnold hides
 * joelcrump cracks a pepsi
 * oerheks kills an onion
<marcoagpinto> what?! You killed the Tor Browser? :(((((((
<daftykins> excellent
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-11
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> hello
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-12
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> sup Kaan
<Kaan> hey
<Kaan> new to this IRC thing, wnated to see how it is
<Kaan> wanted*
<lotuspsychje> Kaan: wich client are you testing
<Kaan> HexChat
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> added bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1865300 to the discuss team and affected myself with my phone on usb plug
